Old Bailey Proceedings Online (www.oldbaileyonline.org, version 8.0, 27 November 2021), March 1898, trial of JAMES BARRY (47) GEORGE MOORE (22) (t18980307-233).

JAMES BARRY, GEORGE MOORE, Theft > burglary, 7th March 1898.

233. JAMES BARRY (47) and GEORGE MOORE (22) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of Edward Howey, with intent to steal.

MR. MUIR Prosecuted.

WILLIAM FORTMAN . I am a sweeper employed by the Corporation of London—on February 11th about 4.30 a.m. I was cleaning Giltspur Street near the Plough public-house and saw Barry standing half-way oat of the telescopic gate—he came towards me and said "Your mate is going ahead over there if you do not make haste you will not catch him"—he walked across towards Cock Lane and gave a sign with his month and I saw Moore come out—my mate and I followed him and went to the police-station and gave information, and came out with Sergeant Smith and saw Barry turn on to Hoi born Viaduct—I followed and as I went across the road he put his hat on one side to disguise himself—I said "You are the man," and gave him in custody—he said "You have made a mistake"—he had a moustache but no beard then—another constable arrested Moore and we all went to the station—I saw Barry standing at the corner of Cock Lane but did not see him go down it—that would taker him to the corner where I saw him—he cross-examined me before the Lord Mayor as to its being a dark place, and on February 6th after the public-houses were closed I went with Sergeant Smith at six o'clock to see about the light—they put out the lights at eleven o'clock on Sundays—Smith had the opportunity of seeing me in the position in which Barry was.

Cross-examined by Barry. You must have gone down Cock Lane—it was four or five minutes after you first spoke to me that I saw you at the corner of Snow Hill—I ran from the church to the station—one way is as near as the other—you would pass me on the other side; my meeting you was quite unexpected—I thought I should have found a policeman at the corner, but I did not, and ran into Snow Hill Station—I must have got there before you got down Cock Lane, and when I came out I saw you in front of me—I never saw you before in my life—I saw you for about a minute—your hands were behind you and you were undoubtedly carrying something, I did not see the jemmy and padlock found, but the spot has been shewn to me—it is near the Cow public-house by St. Bartholomew's Hospital in West Smithfield—to go there you would have to cross Giltspur Street and come back to Cock Lane—I heard the officer say that they were found 20 yards in a different direction—I ran as fast as I could considering I had been at work all night, and you must have

run—I went down Giltspur Street, having you behind me, with your hands behind you, and your face towards me—you walked sideways—you never turned your back, you faced me from the public-house door to Cock Lane—you are the man who spoke to me—you might have followed us down Giltspur Street, and then I should not notice you till I saw you again, when you put your hat on one side—my mate was 20 yards away when I called him, but he came up within a yard of you and I said, "George, just fetch my tobacco box."

Cross-examined by Moore. I did not see you arrested—I saw you turn the corner and cross to the top of Newgate Street.

Re-examined. Barry was about four feet from me when I spoke to him—there was the electric light and gas—he stood under the electric light and when he crossed the road two electric lights were shining upon him—I saw him there a couple of minutes and am sure he is the man—I saw Moore for a minute, he stared me in the face—I am sure he is the man.

By the COURT. Moore had no coat on—I do not know whether Barry had on that red necktie, or whether he had a collar and tie on.

GEORGE POINIER . I am a sweeper employed by the Corporation—I was Fortman's mate on February 11th—he told me something and I saw the door of the Plough open—Barry came to the corner of Cock Lane—I watched him about two minutes, and Moore came out of the Plough. Barry stood with his face towards the Plough—I did not notice his hands—I saw Moore's face for about a second—he came within two yards of me—we pretended to go on with our work and Moore went on, we followed him all the way sweeping, so that he should not notice us—Fortman went to Snow Hill—Moore turned sharp round to Newgate Street, crossed over to the Viaduct and stopped where the steps go down to Farringdon Street—I did not lose sight of Moore from the time he came out of the public-house till the policeman took him.

Cross-examined by Barry. When my mate called me I was about 10 yards from you and I came up facing you looking towards the Plough—I saw you opposite the Plough, watching it—the light was shining on you, you were dressed as you are now, but you were clean shaved and had no collar or tie—when my mate called me I was more towards Newgate Street than St. Bartholomew's, and about 20 yards from him, you were standing opposite, we walked in the middle of the road—I did not see you at the corner of Cock Lane for five minutes, and I did not say so—I did not judge the time you were watching us when we were going after Moore, and I watched you to see if you were coming after us—I have been shown the place where the jemmy was found, that is not in the direction of Cock Lane, it would not take you a minute to put it there, you might have run and been at Cock Lane at the same time as my mate—I never lost sight of you for a moment.

Cross-examined by Moore. I paw you cross the road, I never lost sight of you till the constable took you.

GEORGE JAMES SMITH (City Police Sergeant).—On February 11th Fortman called me from the police-station, Snow Hill, he ran towards Barry, who was on the Viaduct going westward, and said, "That is the man"—I said, "You will have to come with me to the station"—he said, "You have made a mistake"—Fortman had not accused him of

anything—I took him to the station followed by Moore and Knight—I then went to the Plough and saw the steel gate half open—I went back to the station and charged Barry with being concerned with Moore in breaking and entering the Plough public-house—he made no answer, but afterwards he said that he was not guilty, he was an honest wording man. in the market—he gave me a correct address at Hackney, and I went there—it is about three miles from Snow Hill—he said, "I am an honest working man, a porter, and was going to work; I am employed under the lift at the Great Western Railway"—that is under the market at the north end of Giltspur Street—he was walking westward, that is away from Hackney—he was not going towards the market or towards Hackney—he said that he had lived there about four months.

Cross-examined by Barry. You asked me to go to the Great Western Railway—I did so, and made enquiries, and they do not know you—the men start work between one and two—you said that you had gone round to the Electric Railway in King Edward Street with a view of getting work—you were walking away from King Edward Street—you did not say that you had been there to see if you could get a start—you said that you were going on to Chancery Lane—Portman said on his oath that he pointed you out to me, but he did not point—he said, "Here he is" or "There he goes" but I could not see what Portman was seeing—he did not point you out.

By the COURT. I heard Fortman ran into the station and say something—I followed him; he was only there a few seconds.

THOMAS KNIGHT (City Policeman). On February 11th, about 4.30 am, I was on Holborn Viaduct, and Fortman pointed out Moore to me—I said, "Half-a-minute I want you to come with me to the police-station"—he said, "What is up, governor?"—we met Poinier on the way and Moore said, "What is the matter with you?"—he was charged with burglary at the station, and refused his address.

Cross-examined by Moore. I arrested you on the north side of Holborn Viaduct from what Poinier said—I did not see you cross over to the side I arrested you on—I was walking towards you on the south side—you were near the steps, going down.

Cross-examined by Barry. I did not see you when you were arrested; I did not notice.

G. J. SMITH (Re-examined). I believe Barry had a collar and tie on, but not that red muffler—that does not look like the suit he was arrested in—he had no opportunity of having clothes brought, to him at the station.

WILLIAM MILTON . On February 11th I was a constable in the City police—I have since retired—I found this jemmy and brass padlock in West Smithfield, 20 yards from the Plough, and on the same side—I attended at the Plough on Sunday evening, March 6th, after closing hours to examine the state of the lights—I stood on the opposite side, and Fortman stood at the gateway—I could sometimes see him by the electric light, and sometimes it was very dark, the light went down a bit and made a shadow on the gateway—there was a moon.

Cross-examined by Barry. It was eleven o'clock on Sunday night after the houses were closed—the light might be a little different in the evening. to what it would be at four a.m.

EDWARD HOWIE . I kept the Plough, Giltspur Street on February 11th—this padlock is mine; it was used to secure my gate—I resided on the premises—the staircase is in the shop—I missed nothing.

JAMES FELTON .—I was formerly manager to Mr. Howie at the Plough—on February 11th I closed the house at 12.30 a.m., and secured the door with a padlock—I locked it and tried it again at one a.m., and it was safe.

BENJAMIN GODSICK .—I am a foreman in the employ of the Great Western Railway, Smithfield Market—I engage the odd men who work at the lift, carrying meat—I know Barry by seeing him in the market, but never employed him—I have seen him several months in the market, standing about and talking—there are two lifts in the market, but only one for the Great Western—I put all the men on myself.

Cross-examined. Some of the men pay other men out of their own pockets every day, and you might have been employed without my knowing it.

Re-examined. They work there from two a.m. to six, according to what they have to do.

The prisoners statements before the Magistrate. Barry says—I am perfectly innocent of this, I was never in Giltspur Street or Cock Lane all that morning, I am an innocent man, I have never been convicted. Moore says—I do not know this man at all, I am innocent of the charge.

Barry's defence: I am perfectly innocent. I have not committed burglary. I have never been charged with it. I am a respectable married man, and have always paid 20s. in the pound. I am not a cur who commits an offence and then comes and asks for mercy.

Moore's defence: I know nothing of the burglary; I was not on the side of the street they say I was. I came straight from over the water.

SERGEANT SMITH (Re-examined). There is another way into the schools from Giltspur Street, but it is not open at that time in the morning; it closes with an iron gate 10 feet high, and is closed every night—I have measured the distances: from the Plough to the public-house is 100 paces, and from the two points where the prisoners were arrested, is 75 paces—there is no brick work above the iron door, but it is so high that no man could climb over it—it is locked by the sexton every night—this vacant space in the map is the private yard of these houses—just at the end of Cock Lane there is a very dark recess where some carts are.


MOORE GUILTY . He had been convicted at Clerkenwell of attempting to pick pockets, and had been twice charged and discharged with a caution.— Twelve Months' Hard Labour. The Recorder awarded £1 each to Fortman and Pointer.