Old Bailey Proceedings Online (www.oldbaileyonline.org, version 8.0, 20 January 2021), July 1888, trial of GEORGE GALLETLY (17) PETER LEE (17) WILLIAM JOSEPH GRAEFE (17) WILLIAM HENSHAW (16) CHARLES HENRY GOVIER (16), FRANCIS COLE (18), WILLIAM ELVIS (16), MICHAEL DOOLAN (15) (t18880730-759).

GEORGE GALLETLY, PETER LEE, WILLIAM JOSEPH GRAEFE, WILLIAM HENSHAW, CHARLES HENRY GOVIER, FRANCIS COLE, WILLIAM ELVIS, MICHAEL DOOLAN, Killing > murder, Breaking Peace > assault, Breaking Peace > wounding, 30th July 1888.

759. GEORGE GALLETLY (17), PETER LEE (17), WILLIAM JOSEPH GRAEFE (17), WILLIAM HENSHAW (16), CHARLES HENRY GOVIER (16), FRANCIS COLE (18), WILLIAM ELVIS (16), and MICHAEL DOOLAN (15) were indicted for the wilful murder of Joseph Rumbold.

MESSRS. POLAND and CHARLES MATTHEWS Prosecuted; MR. TAYLOR appeared for Galletly,MR. WARBURTON for Lee,MR. GILL for Graefe,MR. HUTTON for Govier,MR. MEATS for Henshaw,MESSRS. H. C. RICHARDS and W. H. PAYNE for Cole, and MR. RENTOUL for Doolan and Elvis.

JOHN WOOD (Police Sergeant S 20). I made the plan and copies produced—they show that part of London lying between Tottenham Court Road on the one side and Clarence Gate, Regent's Park, on the other—the plan is on a scale of four inches to a quarter of a mile—it is a correct plan of the locality in question.

LOUISA CHAPMAN . I am also called Cissy Chapman—I live at 47, Upper Rathbone Place—I have known Galletly about two years; I have also known Francis Cole—I do not know whether Galletly and Cole knew each other—on Wednesday night, 23rd May last, between 9 and 10, I was out walking with Cole in the Marylebone Road—two young men came up, and one of them said to Cole "Where have you come from?"—Cole asked them what did they want to know for, and they said "For five"—I don't know what that meant—then they asked me if my name was Weston—I said no, but I knew her to speak to—I do know a young woman of that name—they then said to my young man, Cole, "You had better come back to the corner, as a young man wants to speak to you"—they then called a young man of the name of Jack—he came up from the other side of the way, and they asked him if he knew my young man—he said "No"—then one of the first two whistled and about 20 or 21 came down the road—one of them struck Cole in the face and knocked him down, and when he was on the ground some of them kicked him—I called out "How many more of you?" and then one of them struck me in the eve with his fist, and then they all ran off, taking Cole's hat with them—Cole got up, and I saw a mark on his face; we went away together—afterwards I had a black eye, the result of the blow—Cole saw me with it—we parted company about half-past 8—I saw Cole again the next evening—I did not see Galletly between the 23rd and the next night.

Cross-examined. by MR. RICHARDS. I have known Cole about 12 months—we have frequently been walking together—he had never taken part in any street rows to my knowledge—he said nothing to these men to provoke them—about 20 took part in this assault, those with the three would make about two dozen—we had just passed the corner of Seymour Place, Marylebone Road, when we were struck—I always found Cole quiet, not quarrelsome at all; I never knew him mixed up with these rows in Holborn—it was about a quarter or 10 minutes to 10 when I saw him the next night, at my street-door, he asked me to go out; I said I would not come on account of my black eye, he said nothing, only asked me how I was.

DAVID CLEARY . I live in Marlborough Court, King Street, Regent Street—I am 18 years of age—before Wednesday, 23rd May, I knew all the prisoners by sight, and most of them personally—on Wednesday evening, 23rd May, about half-past 10, I was in "the Fair" in Tottenham Court Road—on coming outside the fair I saw Cole, he told me that him and Cissy Chapman were walking down Marylebone Road on Wednesday

night, past Madame Tussaud's, and they were stopped by a fellow who asked Cole where he came from; he said I think from Frederick Street. Hampstead Road; this fellow says "Do you know any of the Fitzroy Place lads?" he said "Yes, and glad to know them to; this fellow said "Somebody wants you at the corner," he whistled and called 20 or 30 more fellows; he turned to one and said "Dick, do you know him?" he said "No;" he then said "Take that," and then struck him on the eye, and another on the nose; and Cissy turns round and says "How many more of you?" and the others turned round and said "Take that, you cow," striking her in the eye. That, was Cole's description of what happened, and he asked me to go up on Thursday night to Marylebone to find these fellows—I said "Yes, I will," we then parted—next morning, Thursday, I saw Galletly in Grafton Street—Garry was the name I knew him by—he said "Have you seen Cissy's eye?"—I said "No"—he said "She has got a black one"—I said I had heard about it, and heard about fellows beating her last night—he said "Will you come up to Marylebone to find these fellows that hit Cissy Chapman?"—I said "Yes, I will"—about 7 or a quarter-past, that same evening, I was in "the fair" in Tottenham Court Road—it is a disused ground connected with Whitfield's Chapel; it is an open space, it backs on to Whitfield Street—about a quarter of an hour after I got there I saw Galletly along with Dodd and Jack Harvey—Galletly said "Are you coming up to Maryiebone, Dave?"—I said "Yes"—he said "Can you get a couple more?"—I said "Yes, "Iturned round and saw Doolan and Elvis, aud I said to them "Will you come up to Marylebone to find those fellows that hit Cissy Chapman?"—they said "Yes," they had heard of it before—before I left "the fair "Lee came up—I met him outside—Cole came into "the fair" before that, I saw him speaking to Garry—I also saw Tom Brown and my brother Thomas; we all left "the fair" together, about half-past 8 or a quarter to 9, and just outside I saw Lee, and he joined us and walked, with us—I saw Graefe going down the Marylebone Road; before that I saw Henshaw and Govier in "the fair, "Iforgot to mention them; there was also Ted Britton, but he left us just outside "the fair"—after leaving "the fair" we went on to Tottenham Street—before that, when we were about 20 yards from "the fair, "Lee said to all of us "I have got a knife to defend myself"—they could not all hear that, about seven or eight—I was about two yards or a yard and a half from him—he showed the knife, it was like this (produced); I could not swear to it—it was in a sheath like this; he took it from his right side; he had it in his hand and twisted it round like this (describing)—I should think about two or three persons could see it—I don't know who they were; I know one that saw it; that was Galletly—he said "Show me that knife," and Lee showed it to him—after putting it in the sheath, he pulled it put again, and handed it to him—Galletly said "This will do for one of them"—he had got the knife in his hand when he said that—he handed it back to Lee, and Lee put it back into the sheath, which he was wearing in a belt—I cannot tell who were standing near Lee and Galletly at the time—I said to Lee "Put that thing away"—we then started off through Tottenham Street, all in one lot, and into Union Street—Britton left us about 20 yards from the fair—when we got to Union Street, two or three of them said something about looking into

the Green Man to see if we could see any of the Marylebone fellows there—Elvis looked in; I think he was the only one—he came back and rejoined the party, leaving the eight prisoners, myself, my brother, and Brown, all the rest went away—Dodd and Jack Harvey are the only two I can name; a lot of fellows left with them, but I cannot give their names—those who went on were Galletly, Lee, my brother, Brown Elvis, Doolan, Henshaw, and Govier—Cole stopped behind for a little time, and as we went down Tichfield Street he came running after us and caught us, and we then went on in the direction of Portland Place, and there my brother left us, at the corner of Weymouth Street—we then went on into Marylebone Road, through Harley Street—I first saw Graefe between the top of Harley Street and Marylebone Church; he joined us there—we went by York Gate—I saw an organ playing just inside the gate, and a lot of girls dancing—I said to Elvis and Doolan "Go over and see if there are any of the Marylebone fellows there; they went, and Govier went with them—they came back and said "There are none of them there"—we were then starting to walk up the Marylebone Road—Galletly said "Let us come up the park; they generally take a walk round the park"—we were all going through York Gate into the park, when Elvis and Doolan said "We will go round the other way" (meaning Marylebone Road way)" and meet you at Clarence Gate"—they went along the Marylebone Road, and the rest of us went through York Gate into the park, two and two—when we got in we turned to the left and went to the circle—there were three with myself on the fence side towards Clarence Gate; we divided, so that they should not notice; that was arranged coming along, Govier Galletly and the rest were on the other side, the houses side, going two by two—Brown was on the same side as we, I think—there were four on the right-hand side and four on the left—three of us were walking abreast; Brown was a little behind—those on the other side were almost opposite us—as we went along we came upon Alonzo Burns and his young lady, Emily Lee—they were in front of us; we walked up to them—I knew Burns by sight, but not by name—I said to him "Halloa," and he said "Halloa" to me—Galletly said "Who is this fellow?"—I said "He is all right; I know him"—passing by Burns, Galletly said "You go up and see where they are," as Brown had been so long away—I, Galletly, and Govier then passed on in front of them—Brown had then gone on towards Clarence Gate—Galletly called him and told him to go and see where the others were, meaning Elvis and Doolan—that was just before we met Burns, and he ran on quickly—after we had passed Burns and the girl, Galletly said to me "Brown is so long away, will you go up and see where they are?"—I started off to run—I cannot tell how far off those four on the other side were then; I did not look round to see—as I was running on I passed another man and woman walking together—I did not know them—they were about 40 or 50 yards ahead of Burns and Lee and about 20 yards in front of where I had left Galletly; that was when I passed by Rumbold—I ran on towards Clarence Gate, and before I got there I saw Brown, Elvis, and Doolan, not all together, Brown was a little before them—I said to him "Have you seen any of them?"—he said "No"—I waited till Elvis and Doolan came up, and I asked them—they said "No"—they came from the direction of Clarence Gate—Brown, myself, Elvis, and Doolan then turned round and walked back in

the direction of York Gate—I went a little in front of them—just before I got to the bend by Cornwall Terrace Galletly came up to me—I was walking on the fence side; he was out of breath—he said 'I have stabbed him"—I said "Who?"—he gave no answer—I saw Dick Graefe coming up behind him—he walked on towards Clarence Gate—Galletly and I went down towards York Gate way, and Elvis, Doolan, and Brown—we saw Burns and the girl—all I heard was what Galletly said to Burns, "It was a d——shame to hit the girl in the eye"—as we got near York Gate I saw a crowd running—we then turned round and went towards Clarence Gate, me, Galletly, Brown, Elvis, Doolan, and Govier—Govier came up after Graefe—as we went on we overtook Graefe—I saw nothing more of Cole, Lee, or Henshaw then—we all left the park together by Clarence Gate, walking two and two; I walked with Graefe—after that we went through Alsop Place and Marylebone Road back to the fair—Graefe and I went a different way to the others, right down Marylebone Road through the Crescent into Portland Place—Graefe left me in Tottenham. Street—I got back to the fair and saw Galletly, Govier, and a lot more around them, and I saw my brother Thomas in the fair—Galletly spoke to a lot of them and said that "I have laid one out," my brother Thomas was there at that time—Galletly asked me to go with him up Rathbone Place to see Frank Cole, I said I would, and we went there together and saw Cole outside Cissy Chapman's house talking to her—Galletly spoke to Cole, I did not hear what he said, they were having a private conversation; Cole then said to me, "I will see you round the fair by-and bye"—Galletly and I then turned to go back to the fair—as we were passing the Duke of York publichouse in Charlotte Street, Rathbone Place, a young man named John Carroll looked out of the door, I knew him—Galletly went over and spoke to him, I did not hear what he said—I saw him show him a knife, it was out of the sheath, I did not see the sheath, I saw the blade, it was bloody; he then put it back some where, in his pocket I think it was—Galletly was wearing the belt at the time, such a belt as the one produced—we then went back to the fair together—I left Galletly about half-past 10 or 11 o'clock, outside the door of the fair and went home—next day, Friday, the 25th, I saw Galletly in Grafton Street, outside Grafton Hall, about 1 o'clock—he told me that he threw the knife down a sewer, that he had some blood stains on the right knee of his trousers, and that he scraped them off with a knife—he showed me his trousers, he had them on, I saw some scraping on them—that was the last I saw of him before he was arrested—on the Saturday night, the 26th, I went and saw the police—before that, when we were going through the Crescent out of Marylebone Road into Portland Place, I said to Graefe that it was a shame that they used the knife—he said yes, I don't remember his saying anything more; I had not heard of the name of Bill Pace until the night of the 24th; I heard of it that night, I did not know him; I had heard the name mentioned before, not by any of the prisoners, by other fellows—on the night of the 24th I heard his name mentioned by Govier in the fair, he was telling the people that he had pointed out Bill Pace—that was after we had returned from the park, Galletly was there at the time—it was just by the gate of the fair, about 20 minutes or half-past 10 o'clock—he said "I pointed out Bill Pace"—he said it to a lot of the fellows around

him—on Saturday, the 26th, I gave the police a description of the knife—I went about with the police and was present when some of the prisoners were arrested—I was present when Galletly was arrested, I saw Carroll there—I have not seen him here to-day.

Cross-examined by MR. TAYLOR. When I went to the police I had seen in the paper that a free pardon was offered, that was what induced me to give evidence—I am not a Fitzroy Place lad or a DECKER lad—I belong to no gang—there is a feud between the Fitzroy Place lads and the Lisson Grove lads—I was not taking a leading part in directing the movements of my companions on this evening—I directed Elvis and Doolan to go and see whether any of the Marylebone lads were by York Place—I did not give the order as to going on one side and the other—I don't know whether Galletly knew Elvis and Doolan—there were more than twelve of us left the fair, I said at the police-court about 20, but a lot turned back in Union Street, 15 or 16 turned back—I did not see the scuffle in the park—I said at the police court that I saw Graefe, just before the stabbing took place, in a crowd at the other side of the road—I was not present at the scuffle; I was not with Galletly when I passed Rumbold; I was when I passed Burns, and Govier also—there was about 40 yards between Burns and his girl and Rumbold and his girl—I went on in Galletly's company, past Burns, in the direction of Rumbold and his girl—I separated from Galletly hot quite half way between the two, that was when I started running—I did not press close to Rumbold when I passed him; there was plenty of room on the pavement without knocking against him—I did not touch him, and I was not there to touch him, or do anything like it—I swear I did not run after him—I told Inspector Hare that Henshaw was one of the men who ran after Rumbold when he was stabbed, because I saw him running as I looked round the curve—I did not say "Running after Rumbold; "Isaid he was running toward York Gate—I don't know whether he was running after Rumbold or not—I was present when Henshaw was taken—I did not hear Hare say to him, "Cleary says you were running after Rumbold when he was stabbed"—it was when I was speaking to Burns that I saw Henshaw running; when I looked round I saw a lot of them running, and I noticed Henshaw in particular above the rest—it was on the fence side that I spoke to Burns the second time; I did not speak to him, but he asked me if I knew him, and I said "All right, I do," then I saw Henshaw running towards York Gate just as I looked round the bend—when I came up to Burns the second time I found him having a conversation with Galletly, but I stopped a little away; all I heard Galletly say was "It was a d——shame to hit the girl," meaning the one with Burns, Emily Lee, Burns's sweetheart—I had not a knife in my pocket on this occasion; I do not generally carry one; I do now and then; I have one in my pocket now—I said at the police-court that when Lee showed the knife I said "Put that thing away"—I did not say at the police-court all that I have said to-day; I left out two or three words, I think—I have not had any conversation with Brown since this case; I have never seen him, only coming up here, And at Marylebone—I heard him give evidence there the last time—when I saw Galletly on the Friday morning I did not see any stains of blood on his trousers—he pointed to the side of his knee cap.

Cross-examined by MR. WARBURTON. It was dark when we met at 8.30

on 24th May—my attention was first called to the stabbing by Galletly coming up and saying he had stabbed him—I heard no shouting—my deposition was read over to me before the Magistrate, and I signed it—I did not notice that it omitted the words, "Galletly said 'This knife will do for one of them '"—I think I said it is true that he said it—I new Lee by sight for about a month before this affair happened; I did not know that he was a sailor, that was what he told me.

Cross-examined by MR. GILL. After leaving the public-house in Union Street we went to Marylebone Church—we were not walking two and two then—I did not look in at the Green Man to see if any, of the Marylebone lads were there—I did not say so before the Magistrate as I know of—it was in Harley Street that we went two and two—I think it was in Portland Place that I first saw Graefe—when we got to Harley Street he dropped behind, then he joined us again a little further on, when we got almost to Harley Street—it was about the middle of Hurley Street—I don't remember saying "I don't know whether he was behind us or not when we got to the park, I did not look to see"—I saw him in the park, near the houses—I went along with Galletly and Govier on the fence side—before we got to the park we were all together—we walked on the pavement coming up to York Gate—I don't know who was next to me; I think it was Brown—I did not believe that this knife was going to be used; I had no idea that anybody would use it—I did not believe that anybody would be stabbed; I would not have gone if I had believed it—I told Lee to put the thing away, so that it should not be used; I thought it would not be used after, that—as we were coming from York Gate towards Clarence Gate I saw Graefe, he passed me—Garry came up first; I had only spoken to Graefe once or twice—it was dark in the pack at 9 o'clock—I said before the Magistrate that Dick Graefe was the man that passed me, and I say so now—I never knew his name was Dick before—I don't know that his brother's name it Dick; I don't know his brother—I don't know that the prisoner's name is William—I heard them say round the corner that Dick Graefe was there as well; I heard that before I gave my evidence—when this matter was being inquired into I knew the man was dead, and I thought it likely that I might be charged, and the sooner I gave evidence the better—I have not told any he—my statement is every bit true.

Cross-examined by MR. MEATES. I only knew Henshaw by sight—he used to go along with Galletly and Cole—I have seen him with them—I have seen him before along with some of the others, speaking to them and walking out and coming back again—on this night he was one of the four that kept on the left hand side of the road—after I got into the park I did not see where the other four men were, I ran on to Clarence Gate; I saw Govier and Graefe as we were going away—I saw Henshaw running down towards York Gate when I looked round—I did not see anything of the scuffle; I saw Rumbold after going past Burns to see where Elvis and Brown where—I did not see anything of him after I returned from Clarence Gate—I saw Henshaw running—I don't know that he was running after Rumbold, he might have been running away for aught I know, 1 know he was running towards York Gate—I did not see Rumbold, all I could see was Henshaw running—I should think I was about sixty or seventy yards off at the time—it was a dark night—I was just about the middle of the bend, towards Clarence Gate way—all

I saw of Henshaw was when I looked around; I could tell him by his back—that was at the time I was standing next to Burns and Galletly.

Cross-examined by MR. HUTTON. I first saw Govier in the fair that night—I did not speak to him; I did not ask him to come up, I asked him and Doolan—I don't remember saying at the police-court "I asked him to come for a walk to Union Street" have a doubt whether I spoke to him at the fair or not, I don't know that I spoke to him at all that night—I have no doubt that in the park Galletly, Govier, and I were walking together on the fence side—I could not remember when I was at the police-court on which side Govier was; I think he was on the pavement side of the houses; he did not come from York Gate at all—Galletly, Govier, and I walked from York Gate towards Clarence Gale, on the fence side—I was so much excited at the time over the affair I don't know whether I said so or not—I don't remember on which side he was—there were four on each side; I, Galletly, and Govier were in front on the fence side, Brown followed behind—they were in couples on the other side—we walked so in case the Marylebone fellows met us; Galletly arranged that in Harley Street—I said a little, while ago that I could, not tell whether that arrangement was made, or who made it; it has come to my mind all at once—it was when we returned to the fair that Govier said "I pointed out Bill Pace"—he said that in my presence and in Galletly's too—I was about two or three yards from him—I said nothing to him when he paid that—I stated at the Marylebone Police court that he said that—I don't think Govier was present when Galletly ran up and said "I have stabbed him."

Cross-examined by MR. RENTOUL. It was not I that got up the mob to go on this expedition—I asked them before, that was to give the fellows a bashing, but they had heard all about it before; Cole told them that—when Galletly came up and said he had stabbed the man Elvis and Doolan were behind; they were inside the park—it was I who told Elvis to look in at the Green Man—I only noticed Galletly present when Lee said he had a knife to defend himself—Galletly heard me tell Lee to put away the knife; the others did not hear me that I know of—I saw Elvis and Doolan in the fair after the occurrence.

Cross-examined by MR. RICHARDS. I heard of the assault on Cissy Chapman the same night, outside the fair—I understood that there was to be some little affair after that, and I was willing to join the party—Cole had asked Elvis and Doolan to go, before I did—there was general indignation at the treatment Cissy Chapman had received—I first saw Cole on the Thursday night, coming in the fair; I was in the fair, no one told me to go there, I always go there; it is not a meeting place, I go there to get a bit of work if I can—I was in the fair before any of the others came in—Cole was the first person who spoke to me about going on this expedition—he told me he was with Cissy when she was assaulted and that he got assaulted as well—Cole came out of the fair with us, but he did not go with us all the way to the park—there was considerably more than a dozen of us, it was a mob—we did not walk down in the centre of the road, but on the pavement, all in one lot—I next saw Cole at the corner of Tichfield Street and Union Street, running towards us—there were about 10 or 11 of us then, when Cole joined us, and he walked along with Galletly—Galletly, Lee, Graefe, Henshaw, Govier, and Brown went into the park with me—Cole was on the other side, the houses

side, I saw him there—I never saw him on the side where the scuffle took place—it was about half or three quarters of an hour after the man was killed that I called with Galletly at Mrs. Chapman's place; that was after we had returned to the fair—Cole was outside Mrs. Chapman's door, talking to Cissy.

THOMAS HENRY BROWN . I am a polisher by trade, and live at 131, Whitfield Street, Tottenham Court Road—I am 16 years of age—on Thursday evening, 24th May, about 9 o'clock, I was in the fair in Tottenham Court Road; I there saw Frank Cole, I had known him before—he told me that he had been up Marylebone On Wednesday night, and some lads had set about him—I said "Have they? what for?"—He said "Nothing at all;" so he then asked me whether I would go up Marylebone with him that night to help him to see if he could find any of the lads who had insulted him; I agreed—Cleary was in the fair at the time and Galletly, no one else at that time—I remained in the fair a little time, when I saw Lee there—I left the fair with Cleary and Galletly—when we got outside, about 13 or 14 of us went down Tottenham Street, Lee, Galletly, David Cleary, Thomas Cleary, Graefe, Govier, Doolan, Elvis, and Cole—I did not see Henshaw at that time—Dodd and Jack Harvey went With us as far as Tottenham Street—in Tottenham Street Lee said to me "I have a knife"—he showed it to me, there was a sheath to it, it was such a knife and sheath as this, and I believe this is the same belt—he took the knife out of the sheath and showed it to me—the others were behind us, they could not see the knife—he put the knife into the sheath, that was round his waist with the belt—we all then went on into Cleveland Street and Union Street, and down some bye-streets into Portland Place—by that time some of them had left the crowd, Dodd, Elvis, and Harvey had gone—in Portland Place Galletly asked Lee to lend him his knife—Lee said "All right," and he took off the belt, sheath, and knife, and gave it to Galletly and he put it round his waist—I borrowed a knife from Galletly about three or four minutes afterwards—I Wanted it to use if necessary—this (produced) is the knife he lent me, it is a pen-knife; I put it in my pocket—we then all went on to the park—near York Gate there was an organ playing, and some people standing round it, and Elvis and Doolan went over to see if they could see any of the Marylebone chaps—they came back and said none were there—we went on to York Gate, and Galletly said to Elvis and Doolan, "You two go round the other way, and see if you can see any of them round there"—upon that Elvis and Doolan started to Clarence Gate by the Marylebone Road, and I and the others went in by York Gate and round towards the Circle—our party was composed of Galletly, David Cleary, Cole, Lee, Govier, myself, and Graefe—I did not see Henshaw at all—I, Galletly, and Cleary walked on the fence side—after going a certain distance we overtook Burns and Emily Lee, I did not pass them, I went away from there, and went to find Elvis and Doolan—as I went in the direction of Clarence Gate, I saw Rumbold and Elizabeth Lee—I went on to Clarence Gate, and just as I got out of the gate I saw Elvis and Doolan coming up Alsop Place towards the park—I called to them, and we three turned back through Clarence Gate in the direction of York Gate, to meet the others—as we returned we met Cleary and Galletly, one after the other, a yard or two between the two—Galletly said "I have stabbed him"—I said "Who?"—he said

"One of them"—I asked him where, and he put his hand up to the back of his neck—Govier and Graefe came up directly behind Galletly, and we all turned round and walked in the direction of Clarence Gate, and left by that gate, Galletly, Elvis, Doolan, Graefe, I, Govier. And David Cleary, and went back to the fair, not all together—I and Galletly stopped to have a drink of water, and when we turned round they had all gone—we saw a mob opposite York Gate standing looking, and we did not see where the others went—Galletly and I went back to the fair together; we stopped at the corner of Fitzroy Street and Euston Road—Galletly showed me a knife, he took it out of the sheath he was wearing, it was like the knife I had seen before, which I had seen Lee give to Galletly; I saw the blade, there was a stain of blood on it—it was then that I gave him back his own knife, he asked for it—I had not taken out that knife to use to any one—when he pulled the knife out of the sheath, he said "Look here"—it was about 10 or half-past when we got back to the fair—next morning, the 25th, I was in Grafton Street, and saw Galletly there; as I was talking to him Lee came up—I asked Galletly what he had done with the knife—he said he had put it down a sewer—when Lee came up he asked him what he had done with it, and he said "I put it down a sewer"—I did not see Henshaw at all on the night of the 24th—on the 26th I went and gave information to the police, after I had seen a statement in the Echo with regard to the case.

Cross-examined by MR. TAYLOR. The statement I saw was that there would be a free pardon—I went to the police-station in company with Cleary, I met him in Whitfield Street that evening; I can't tell whether I or he saw the notice first—I did not have any conversation with him about it; he said "Will you come up to the station with me and give information about the murder?"—it took us about five minutes to go to the station—we were not talking about the case on our way—I did not say anything, we were talking about other things, but not a word about this case; we talked about it when we were in the fair having swings—I used not to go to the fair every night, I went there very often, I generally met Cleary there, he was looking after the swings, cocoanut shying and that—I am neither a Marylebone lad or a Fitzroy Place lad, nor a decker: by a decker I suppose you mean a Dials lad—when I saw it in the papers I understood it was a Dials lad—I knew there was great enmity between the Fitzroy Place lads and the Lisson Grove lads; I was once present at a combat between them—I am a Fitzroy lad—I knew there was fighting between them—Cleary was not with me at the last fight, it took place near the fair, it was about the same as this, it was all the cause of this, about a girl being hit; they asked one of the chaps from Marylebone some question, he said he came from Marylebone, and then they let out at him, started hitting him—Cleary was there at the time, he was fighting, I was not, I was with them, but I was not fighting—that was two or three days before this—it had to do with Cissy, it was on the same night as we were going up to Marylebone, before we went there, it happened in Howland Street earlier in the evening of the 24th, before we started for Marylebone—I had not been present with Cleary at other fights that I know of, I had not been present at any other fight between the Marylebone hands and the Fitzroy Place lads—when Lee first showed me the knife it was outside the

Tabernacle in the Tottenham Court Road, I am sure that no one else could have seen it—nothing was said to him by Galletly at the time—I did not see Cleary then, he could not have seen it—I do not recollect seeing Cleary in Court when I was giving my evidence at Marylebone—when we went to the police-station on the Saturday night we saw an inspector first and told him we were anxious to tell him all that happened about this murder—I did not tell him I had borrowed a knife from Galletly on that night; I did not mention that till I was asked at the police-court—there were no stains of blood on the trousers I had on that night; they are now in the pawnshop, they were pawned later on that same evening—no, it was on the Saturday they were pawned—I had whistled just before Galletly, and Cleary came running up to me in the park, I meant it as a signal to them—when I first went into the park at York Gate I was walking with Galletly and Cleary on the fence side, I then passed Barns and Miss Lee—after passing them I went on of my own accord—it is not true to say that Galletly told me to go on—if Cleary says so it is a mistake—I did not pass Burns and Lee again when I returned towards York Gate—I was close by Cleary when the first fight took place—I don't know whether he was very much excited at the time—they were hitting one another, he and the other chap, I don't know his name, it was only a fight between the two, there were no others there—it was about Cissy Chapman. Cross-examined by MR. GILL. I first saw Graefe in Tottenham Street—in going towards the park I was walking in front with Galletly and Lee nearly all the time—I did not think from anything that was said that anybody was going to be stabbed—when I got into the, park I crossed over from the houses side to the fence side with Cleary and Galletly and went straight ahead with them, I did not look back at all—on coming back from Clarence Gate I was on the side where the houses are,. I met Cleary and then Galletly—it was after he had spoken to me that I saw Graefe, he passed along towards Clarence Gate; me, Galletly, Cleary, and Graefe walked along together—Graefe went out of the gate on the side next the houses—I then walked out with Galletly and went towards the fair.

Cross-examined by MR. HUTTON. When Elvis, and Doolan went over to the organ, Govier was not by my side, I saw him with the others; Elvis and Doolan were the only two that went over to the organ, I am sure of that—when Galletly came up and said he had stabbed him, I had a little conversation with him for about three minutes—then Govier came up in company with Graefe.

Re-examined. The fight between Cleary and the other was about an hour and a half before leaving the fair, that would be about half-past 7o'clock.

By the COURT. The fight was in Howand Street, I saw it; afterwards, when the chap ran away, we all went back to the fair; Cole was present at the fight—my trousers were pawned before I went to the police—there was no mark of blood on them—my soother pawned them, I don't know where.

DAVID CLEARY (Re-examined by the COURT). I was in Howland Street when the boy came from Marylebone, they were going to beat him because he was a Marylebone fellow—I hit him once and then Galletly gave him a kick on the chin, and then it was all over; it did not last

above five minutes—he struck a blow at me and I struck one at him, there was only one blow each—I did not begin on him at all; I said I recognised him as one of the Marylebone fellows, and he thought I was going to hit him, and with that he gave me a clout, and Galletly ran after him, I did not know who he was—Cole said "There is one of the Marylebone fellows round there," so we all went out of the fair, where he was waiting for his girl; it was about half-past 7, we went round there, me, Cole, Galletly, Lee, no, not Lee, I think it was Elvis or Doolan, it was one of them, I can't say which—the Marylebone lad struck first, I went round him, he cops me one at the side of the jaw, and I hit him back—Cole said "Are you one of the party?" and I asked him the question, if he had said yes I suppose I should have hit him—I went there for the purpose of hitting him—he had come there after his girl—we were listening to what he had to say, trying to see if he was a Marylebone fellow—he said he did not live Marylebone way, but we found he did—I certainly went there for the purpose of hitting him, it he was a Marylebone lad—Brown was there; I'm blessed if I knew what he was doing, he was doing just the same as I was, looking on—I am speaking the can did truth.

THOMAS HENRY BROWN (Re-examined by the COURT). It is true there was somebody who was said to be a Marylebone fellow at the corner of Howland Street—I was in the fair when I heard he was there—I, Cleary, Cole, and Galletly, I am almost sure, went to Howland Street—we all four knew the Marylebone man had gone there simply for the purpose of seeing his girl, and we went there to attack him.

JOHN HARVEY . I have been in employment as improver in a factory—on Thursday, the 24th, I had been at work during the day, and at night, between 8 and half-past, I went alone to the fair in Tottenham Court Road—I saw Cole there—I have known him three or four years—I had heard before I went to the fair what had taken place with Cole and Cissy Chapman on the previous night—on this Thursday night, when I saw him at the fair, Cole asked me to come with him to Marylebone to see if he could see some of the chaps that knocked him about—I said "No, I am going to meet some one in here"—he then asked me to come as far as Union Street with him—my friend Dodd or Fontaine was there when he asked me—I left the fair with him—I should say 12 or 14 left together—I did not see Galletly when we started from the fair; I saw him as we were going along among the, party—I saw Cole—I saw Cleary talking to some chaps going along—when we got to Union Street I and Dodd left the party; we went away, and did not go up the Marylebone Road or the park at all—later that same night, about 10 o'clock, I was outside the New Inn in Tottenham Court Road—I saw Henshaw there—I had seen him in the fair before, but never knew his name—another man with a peak to his cap, whose name I don't know, was there—Dodd was there with me—Henshaw called my friend Dodd on one side and spoke to him—I heard nothing that he said; I am sure of that—Dodd told me afterwards—Henshaw went up Tottenham Court Road, and I went the other way—I holloaed out "Good night"—next day, Friday, at the dinner hour, just at 1 o'clock, as I was coming out to dinner, I saw Galletly at the corner of Charlotte Street and Bennett Street—he came up and asked me if I had heard about the chap what had been stabbed round the park—I said "yes"—Galletly said "Do

you knew who done it?"—I said "I heard that you done it," and he did not make no answer—he then went back towards where he come from, Rathbone Place, and I went on home to my dinner—I knew him by the name of Garry

Cross-examined by MR. TAYLOR. I was very often in the fair before this happened; I have not gone there since—I used to see Cleary there a good many times; he used to be like working on the swings—I know nothing of the unfriendly feeling between the Lisson Grove lads and the others—I never heard anything about it—I knew Galletly; I don't know who he was living with—after saying; I heard it was him, he asked me where I was going to—I said "I am going to dinner," and I left immediately.

Cross-examined by MR. RICHARDS. I saw cole when I came out of the fair—there were about 14 or 15 going up together—that was about half past 8, I should think—I saw nothing of this row at the corner of Howland Street—I parted company with them in Union Street, outside a corner public-house; I did not see them go in—I simply walked from the fair to Union Street—that was when I last saw Colev.

By the COURT. I don't remember anything else that I said to Galletly—it was he who commenced the conversation by asking whether I had heard about the chap who had been stabbed.

Thursday, August 2nd

ADOLPH EDWARD FONTAINE . I am a porter, and live at 10, Middleton Buildings, Tichfield Street—I go by the name of Dodd—on Thursday evening, 24th May, about 7 o'clock, I was in Gooch Street—I saw Galletly there; I knew him before as Garry—we went into the Blue Posts and had some drink—he said "Have you heard about Frank being bathed?"—I said "No"—he said "Frank has got a bash in the eye, and Ciss has got a black eye," and he asked if I would go as far as the fair with him—I did so, and saw Cole there—I said Frank, let's have a look at your eye"—he said "It is not much"—Cole then asked if I would go to Marylebone with him to see if we could see anything of the Marylebone chaps—I said "No, I can't to-night; I am going to meet my young lady"—he then asked Jack Harvey if he would go—he said he could not, as he had to see some one in the fair—Cole than asked me to go part of the way with them—I left the fair wish Harvey; there were about 16 altogether; I can only speak to Harvey; I did not notice Lee—I was about 10 yards at the back of the rest with Harvey—I saw Lee at the fair before we started; I did not know him before—I went as far as Union Street, and theft, left them, and went home—there were about 14 at Union Street when I left them—about 10 o'clock that same night I was with Harvey at the New Inn in Tottenham Court Road, and saw some people there—I could not say whether any of the prisoners were there—I had some conversation with somebody there; they called me aside—on Sunday morning I saw Cole and his sister in Gower Mews—I said "Frank, you have made a mess of yourself now"—he never answered, but I said "Why don't you go and give yourself up, and turn Queen's evidence?"—he said "I will"—that was all that passed—I went away and left him—I was up there about an hour.

Cross-examined by MR. TAYLOR. It was about 7 o'clock when I met Galletly; we had a drink, and I went with him to the fair, and stayed there until we all went in a body towards Union Street—I can't say for

certain if Galletly was there all the time—I was at the fair about hall an hour before we started.

Cross-examined by MR. MEATES. I can't say for certain who the persons were who were in front of me and Harvey—Cole was among them—I did not notice him in Union Street—I first saw him in the fair—I did not know he was going to Marylebone, only to Union Street—I saw his eye—I knew he was going with the others.

By the COURT. The fair is a big place. (The foreman stated that it was nearly half an acre, and had more than one entrance.)

THOMAS WILLIAM CLEARY . I live at 2, Marlborough Court, Regent Street, and am a butterman—on Thursday evening, 24th May, I was in the fair with my brother David—my elder brother Ted works in the fair—I saw Cole there, and Lee and Galletly; I knew them before—I don't recollect seeing the others there—I know them by sight—Cole asked me to come down to Marylebone with him, and have a fight with the Marylebone chaps—my brother David was there at the time—we then left the fair; there were about 14 of us—we went as far as Portland Place and Weymouth Street; I then left them, and went back to the fair—in Portland Place I was told that they had a knife—I could not say which one told me—I think it was one of the prisoners—I can't say which; they were all together—I was told that Galletly had a knife in his possession—I did not see it—about 10 o'clock that night I was in the fair—my brother David came there—the only prisoner I saw come there was Galletly—he asked me to come with him to Rathbone Place to see Frank Cole—I went with him—he told me he had stabbed a chap in Regent's Park—he told me that before we went to see Cole—he did not say anything about the affair as we went along—I did not make any observation when he told me that, nor did I hear my brother say anything—he came up to me and told me that before he spoke to me any other thing—I am not a great friend of his; I have seen him before, and spoken to him—my brother came with us as far as Rathbone Place—no one was with me at the time this was said; I was there by myself—I saw Cole at Rathbone Place—Galletly spoke to him—I did not hear what he had to say—my brother joined us at the fair—Galletly asked him to go as well.

Cross-examined by MR. TAYLOR. I was at the fair all the evening before they started; I was there before 7 o'clock, I believe—I did not notice whether Galletly was there all the time between 7.15 and the time they started—I was talking to my elder brother Ted the best part of the time, the one that works at the fair—I noticed Galletly after leaving there, when Cole spoke to me, that was the only time I noticed him—I could not say at what time that was; it was after I had returned to the fair that he told me he had stabbed a chap in the park—he came up and told me that without saying anything else—my brother was not there then—I don't think I have said that he was. (The witness's deposition being read stated, "My brother was there when he said that.") Well, I might have said that; it is a mistake; we can't help a mistake at times—I meant to say my brother came up after he told me that—I did not know that my brother was going to give evidence until I was told one night, he told me—he told me when he came home that he had given evidence at Tottenham Court Road; that was on the Saturday night—we had no conversation as to what he had said at the station—I did not ask him any

question, or he me—I think it was the Sunday morning that he told me—I was not in his company at all on Sunday he went out—it was indoors that he told me—he did not stop in more than a quarter of an hour—during that time I had no conversation with him—nothing was said about what had taken place in the park—I have seen him every day since—we have never compared notes about it—I never spoke to him about what had taken place at the park—I might have spoken to him now and again; I can't say how many times.

Cross-examined by MR. WARBURTON. I saw Lee in the fair; I knew him before; not more than a month, I believe—I knew that he had been a sailor—he told me himself that he had come from sea.

Cross-examined by MR. MEATES. I had heard, about rows between the Fitzroy lads and the Marylebone lads, but I have not been with them—when Cole spoke about a fight I thought it was one of the ordinary disturbances.

ELIZABETH LEE . I live at 1, Barrett Street, Marylebone—on Thursday evening, 24th May, about a quarter past 8, I met Joseph Raubold at John's Court, Wigmore Street—I had only known him about three weeks, he was a printer and used to work for Henderson and Company—my cousin, Emily Lee, was with me, and Alonzo Burns was with her—we four walked to Regent's Park, I and Bumbold in front; Lee and Burns were about 20 yards behind us when we, got to the park—we entered the park at York Gate and went on the fence side first, next the grass—we walked along towards Clarence Gate—we saw about five young men playing in the road, touching one another, larking in the road—they walked straight past us and turned in front; of us and got in front of us—one of them said to Rumbold "Are you Macey?"—he said "so help me God, I don't know what you mean"—three came from the other side of the road and joined in with them, and all the fellows round said "Yes, that's him, that's him," and with that one who stood at the side caught hold of him by the neck; I could not tell which it was, I think it was the one that said "Are you Macey?"—Rumbold bent his neck up and got away; he dropped his hat and ran—I picked it up—about six of them ran after him, and I ran too, towards York Gate; the others were about 20 yards behind him—when he started to run they were about 5 or 6 yards from him; he got a good way in front—I ran and got in front of the fellows and saw Joe standing at York Gate, just outside the park-keeper's house—I saw blood coming from his mouth—he was leaning against the railings—he said "Call a cab, I am stabbed"—I saw the fellows coming out of the gate, and I went towards them and called out "Stop thief"—there were two behind me and four in front, and one of the two gave man punch and a kick and knocked me down—a cab was got—I did not see what became of Joe, I ran after the men—I was excited—I only saw one of them actually touch Joe as I have described—I afterwards heard the same night that he was dead, and, I saw him at the Middlesex Hospital.

Cross-examined by MR. TAYLOR. I did not see any one use a knife at the time they surrounded Rumbold—he called out "I am stabbed" when I got to York Gate—I saw five persons first on our side of the road, and three came from the other side, and five attacked him first before the other three came—only one touched him.

Cross-examined by MR. GILL. As well as I could see I saw five—I said

"About five"—I would not like, to swear the number was exactly five—I am quite sure that three came across the road—I think I said so before the Magistrate—I said "Others came and joined in"—I did not say where they came from.

Cross-examined by MR. HUTTON. The five were pushing each other about—we passed them before one said. "Are you Macey?"—I was walking by Rumbold's side—it was the one at the end of the crowd said that—I did not look him in the face much—I could not exactly tell is face—I did not see the face of the one that put his arm on Rumbold's collar—I think it was the same that said ". Are you Macey?"—I could not exactly tell if it was him or the one by the side of him, I thought it was him because the voice came in that direction; I did not see his face—I was in a very excited condition.

By MR. TAYLOR. We had been on the fence side passing along York Terrace West, then we came to the bend—it was shortly after turning the bend towards Clarence Gate that these men came across us—we had gone about 20 yards from the bend when they came up.

EMILY LEE . I live in Barrett Street, Oxford Street—on this Thursday night I was with Alonzo Burns, Rumbold and my cousin Elizabeth; we went to the park; Rumbold and Elizabeth were in front; Burns and I were walking behind—when we got into the park we crossed over to the fence side—they were not out of sight until they got to they got to the bend of the railing, we were then about 20 yards behind—about six young lads came from behind, and one came in front and looked into Bums's face; the other five, came and mixed with him, and I understood one to say "Hallo, Lonnie," that is Burns's nickname; another one said "Oh, he is all right, I Know him," and they passed out round the bend out of sight—they did not interfere with us—when we got up to the bend we saw Rumbold just, saving himself from failing in the scuffle, and the young fellows were all round him—I can't say how many there were, about six or seven I should think—Rumbold passed us and ran towards York Gate, I did not see my cousin then, we just saw her come from the bend running after the fellows—they ran after Joe, towards York Gate; they did not all run, I and Burns went up, and I saw two just by the bend of the railings where the act was done; one was that young fellow over there, the end one, Galletly—I saw him afterwards at the Albany Street Police-station on the Sunday—I did not recognise him then—I afterwards saw him at the police-court on the Monday week with other people—from the description I gave of him I thought it was him, he has the features I gave of him—he is one of them; looking at him new, I am sure he was one of the two I saw on the spot—Burns said to him "What have you done to Joe?" he said he thought he was a deck fellow—Burns said "He is a Grove lad; "Galletly said." It is the Grove lads that are running after him; then I heard a peculiar whittle and the two walked towards Clarence Gate—before the whistle Galletly said "It was through banging our fellows and giving the girl a black eye"—Burns and I then went towards York Gate and saw Rumbold being put into a cab—I knew none of these persons before.

Cross-examined by MR. TAYLOR. I am quite certain of Galletly, I saw him immediately after we passed the bend, we saw the two standing there; I can't say how many yards they were from us, it was where I

had seen the scuffle—we walked up to him quickly, we wanted to see what had taken place—I did not see a knife in his hand—when we saw Joe go we walked straight up to the bend; I did not run, I walked quickly—when Rumbold passed us running, the other fellows were quite close to him; Elizabeth was running behind them—I can't say they were exactly close behind him, they were running after him, I could not say how—I do not recognise any of them, I can't say how many there were, I was with Burns the whole of the time this took place—I know now who the other man was that was with Galletly—I know he was recognised as Cleary by Burns—I do not know that it was Cleary.

Re-examined I do not recognise Cleary as the second man—I cannot say whether he is or not.

ALONZO BURNS . I live at 45, Lisson Street, Lisson Grove—I am a printer's apprentice—on Thursday night, 24th May, I went with Emily Les into the park—Rumbold and Elizabeth Lee were walking in front—when we got to the bend about half a dozen people came up and spoke to us—they came from York Gate way, from the back of us—I did not recognise any of them—they went towards Rumbold—when I got in sight of Rumbold I saw a sort of a scuffle, and saw him dart out from the midst of them; I was just about at the bend at the time—he ran right past me, I saw blood coming out of his mouth as he passed me—I said "Joe!" he could not answer me, he squirted out some blood—he ran towards York Gate, some of the others followed him, one or two stopped behind; I am not sure there were two; there was one—I had some conversation with that one, I don't know who that person was; I heard a whistle after the conversation—the witness, David Cleary, came up while I was in conversation, I did not see in which direction he came—as soon as they heard the whistle they ran towards Clarence Gate—went towards York Gate and saw Rumbold taken away in a cab. Cross-examined by MR.TAYLOR. I think one was left behind, it was with that one I had the conversation; I am quite certain it was Cleary that came up—I had seen his face before—I did not see any knife in the hand of the man I was talking with—I did not observe that Cleary had anything in his hand, I did not notice him.

Cross-examined by MR. GILL About half a dozen first passed us, and the two came on afterwards, about 10 yards behind them, but I can't remember the distance—the two were walking on the same side of the way as the half-dozen.

JOHN JOSEPH CAMERON . I live in Redhill Street, Regent's Park; I am guard of a van—about half-past 9 on Thursday night, 24th May, I was by York Gate—I saw between five and six young men running from the park, coming through the gate, and a woman running after them—then I saw Rumbold leaning against the railings; I got a cab and took him to the hospital—he died on the way, his body was left at the hospital.

SAMUEL HULBERT . I am a sewer man—on 30th May, about 10.30, I searched the sewer in Upper Rathbone Place, and found this knife in the sheath under the ventilator opposite Newman Passage—I gave it to Mr. Westcott, who was standing by—it was not in the first sewer I searched: I had searched several in the neighbourhood—it was wet there.

SIMON WESTCOTT . On 30th May Hulbert gave me the knife and sheath, I marked it, and gave it to the police.

WALTER GIFFARD NASH . I am house surgeon at the Middlesex Hospital—on Thursday night, 24th May, a little before 10, I was at the hospital when Rumbold was brought in—he was dead; his clothes were saturated with blood—I examined him then, and afterwards made a post mortem examination—there were two wounds: one at the back of the neck just above the collar, in the middle line of the neck, it was about one inch in length and two-and-a-half inches deep; the other wound was in the middle of the back on the left side, just below the shoulder blade, that penetrated the right lung, it was between four and five inches deep—that was the more serious wound, and was the one that caused death, it completely divided the branch of the pulmonary artery, and penetrated the upper lobe of the right lung—the loss of blood from that wound must very soon have caused death; death was caused by loss of blood—the wounds were such as could have been inflicted with the knife produced—they could not have been inflicted with the pocket-knife.

Cross-examined by MR. TAYLOR. The wound on the neck was not a very serious wound, it merely penetrated the muscles, it was a serious wound, but it did not wound anything of importance—I think a man could very likely run 100 yards after receiving such a wound as that in the back; I should think he could run for a minute, I don't think he could be capable of speaking at the end of that time—I should not have thought he would be able to speak after running 300 yards—blood would come from the mouth from that wound—the air tubes were full of blood, and so was the stomach.

GEORGE ROBSON (Police Inspector D). At 10.30 on Saturday night, 26th May, I saw Galletly outside the Duke of York publichouse in Charlotte Street, Tottenham Court Road—David Cleary and Brown were with me—I said to him "What is your name?" he said "Brown"—I said "I am an inspector of police, and I shall take you into custody for murdering Joseph Rumbold, by stabbing him, at the Regent's Park, on Thursday last"—he said "I know nothing about the murder"—I took him to the Station—when in Colville Court some one in the crowd said "That's Garry"—an attempt was then made to rescue him, he struggled, and tried to get away, but failed to do so—he said "That bleeding Dave and Brown have turned coppers to try and hang me"—I took him to Tottenham Court Road Station, where he was detained for some time—I then conveyed him to Albany Street Station—he there gave the name of George Galletly, 135, Whitfield Street—I did not see who the person was that tried to rescue him—Carroll was brought to the station and charged with attempt to rescue—I was before the Magistrate when Carroll was taken there, he was convicted, and had two months for it—I looked at the trousers Galletly was wearing, they were taken from him on 4th June, he had continued to wear them—I also went to the address he gave me, and got another pair, I took both pairs to Dr. Stevenson, of Guy's Hospital—the pair Galletly was wearing I numbered 1 and the other No. 2.

Cross-examined by MR. TAYLOR. He was living with his mother.

THOMAS BANNISTER (Police Inspector S). At 2.30 on Sunday morning, 27th May, I went with other officers to 23, Whitfield Place, and in the front room top floor I found some people, amongst others Lee—he was

in bed, he got up and dressed—there was a sailor's chest in the room—he put on this belt when he dressed—I said to him "The charge against you is being concerned with others in the murder of Joseph Rumbold in Regent's Park last Thursday evening"—he said "All right, sir, I had better not say anything yet"—David Cleary and Brown were with me—Lee said to him, "Dave, I shall be all right, shan't I?"—he replied "Yes"—Lee then said "I hope you don't think that I stabbed the man; I know I was with the mob, and the man that did it had my knife, but I don't know his name; I sever spoke to him till that night, and I have not had my knife since; if I had known this was going to happen tonight I would not have gone to bed; them other two chaps that was with you were there as well, and they know the man that stabbed him. I had been at work at the hospital all day"—he was then taken away in custody—I took the belt from him—one of his brothers was in the room at the time—at 4 o'clock the same morning I went to 29, London Street, where I found Graefe in bed in the front room second floor—I told him the charge, the same as before—he said "Well, though I was not there, I think I can throw some light on it; the only one I knew by name of the lot was Franky Cole; he was round the park with his girl one night when some chaps threatened him, so this night they came to me and asked me to go with them to pay this chap; they have stood up for me, so I went with them as far as Harley Street, outside the park. When they began to talk about the knife I left them. I should know the man that had the knife; he was taller than me. I am not a man to use a knife, though they will blame me. Those two chaps with you were they; they ought to be pinched as well. Have you got Franky Cole?"—I said "No"—at 6.30 p.m. Govier came to the station with his mother, and Inspector Hare said to me in Govier's presence, "This lad has come to make a statement about the case"—I asked him his name—he gave the name of Govier—I asked his mother his name—she told me—I said "Well, you will be charged with being concerned in the murder; if you make a statement it will be written down, and may be used as evidence against you; alter that if you wish to make a statement it shall be taken"—then he said nothing—the same evening at 7.30 Doolan and Elvis came to Albany Street Station in company with an officer—Doolan said "We was with the mob Thursday night that stabbed the man in the park, and we want to tell what we know about it"—Elvis said "We were not there when he was stabbed, but we went up with them"—I told them they would be charged with the murder; I cautioned them the same as I did Govier—I found they were under the impression, that, they would not be—I told them if they made a statement it would be taken down and used against them—then they said nothing further—at 11.30 that night Cole was brought to the station by his father—he was told that he would be charged—he made no reply—before these arrests I had had statements made to me by David Cleary and Brown, or rather it was made in my presence, and was written down.

Cross-examined by MR. GILL. I have made inquiries about Graefe—I find he bears a good character—he was admitted to bail by the Magistrate.

Cross-examined by MR. MEATES. Cole bears a good character—I went to his father and advised him to bring him, and he did.

ARTHUR HARE (Police Inspector). On the afternoon of 27th May I saw

Henshaw at the corner of Frederick Street, Hampstead Road—Cleary was with me—I said to Henshaw "Is your name Cole"—he said "No"—I said "What is your name?"—he said "Henshaw"—I said "You will have to be detained about that Regent's Park affair"—I confronted him with Cleary, and Cleary said that he was one of the mob that ran after the chap after he was stabbed—I sent him in custody to the station—I sawhim there some time after—he said "I went with them as far as Harley Gate, but did not go into the park"—shortly alter he said "I was in the park, about 20 yards from the disturbance, and I heard a man was stabbed. I saw him, and saw the blood apparently running down his trousers. I saw him put into the cab, and I ran away for fear I might be arrested. I made my Way to the Middlesex Hospital, but they got there before me"—when the charge was read over to him, he said "I am as innocent as a baby"—I saw Govier at Albany Street Station with his mother, when they came in about 6.40—I said to him "What do you want?"—he said I have come to tell you all I know about the Regent's Park affair"—I said "What is your name?"—he said "Govier"—I said "You had better not say anything now, as you Will be charged with being concerned in this murder—he said "All I did, I stopped the man, find said to him 'Do you know Bill Pace?' He said 'No.' I saw the others set on him. I never laid my hands on him"—I afterwards saw Henshaw and Harvey together in the cell passage at the police-court—Harvey picked Henshaw out as knowing him—Henashaw said "He left us at the corner of Tottenham Street."

Cross-examined by MR. RENTOUL. Harvey picked him out as knowing him, and having had something to do with this particular case—he was asked to go and see if he saw anybody there that he knew in connection with this case, and among others he picked out Henshaw.

Cross-examined by MR. TAYLOR. I am quite sure that Cleary said Henshaw was one of the mob who ran after the chap after he was stabbed.

WILLIAM JAMES PACE . I live in Boston Place, Marylebone—I am sometimes spoken to as Bill Face—I know Govier by sight and Elvis also—I have not been in their company that I know of—I had nothing to do With this affair on Thursday night.

Cross-examined by MR. HUTTON; Govier would know me by sight—I have never spoken to him that I know of, or he to me—I don't suppose we have seen each other about twice—I saw him about a week before this happened—I knew his name was Govier, by what they told me all the Court—I have never seen him at the fair that I know of, I have not been there above once.

THOMAS HENRY BROWN (Re-examined). Last night I went with a police officer and obtained the trousers I had pawned; these (produced) are them.

DR. THOMAS STEVENSON . I am Professor of Chemistry at Guy's Hospital—this knife and sheath were brought to me to be examined, I slit open the sheath—I found no trace of blood either on the knife or sheath—if it had been for some hours in Water or sludge I should not expect to find blood on it—Inspector Robson brought me these trousers numbered 1 and 2, said to be Galletly's—I found no mark of blood on them, there was a dark brown mark below the left knee of one of them, it was not blood—there was a trace of old blood in the left pocket, that might have come from a cut or anything—the other trousers had no

Mark at all on them—I have this morning looked at Brown's ✗ I could see no mark of blood on them externally, there was a small smear in the right pocket, an old mark, which I think was blood on it might be anything.

Cross-examined by MR. TAYLOR. I did not see any scraping on Gelletly of trousers—I did not see any sign of their having been washed, or of old stains removed—I cannot remember the right knee, I heard of that for the first time yesterday—I examined the trousers thoroughly, and I could not say that there had been any blood removed the right ✗ was not present to my mind more than the left.

W. G. NASH (Re-examined by the COURT). Supposing a deep wound like that in the back, the knife might be withdrawn and no blood flow so as to come on the person inflicting it, it would come through all his clothes.

DAVID CLEARY (Re-examined by MR. TAYLOR). I had only had one fight with the Marylebone lads before and that was on the same evening at least it was not a fight—about five months age I was charged with assault—that was not on a Marylebone lad it was on a gentleman who wanted to take liberties with me, I was discharged for that—I was convicted three years and eight months age for stealing about 1/2lb of bacon, and I got ten days and three years in a school and I got let off eight months for good. character—I did not deny at the police-✗ than I had been convicted, I was not asked the question. Brown was asked that question—I said at the police-court that Galletly said when Lee showed him the knife. "This will do for one of them"—my deposition was read over to me before I signed it—I did not notice that that expression was omitted—I do not recollect Brown saying at the police-court that Galletly had asked Lee for the knife—I was present when Brown's deposition was read over to him, but I did not take any notice of his statement.

By MR. POLAND. After I came out from the school. I worked in who for two or three months—at the time this took place I was out of employ.

This being the case for the prosecution Counsel for all the prisoner concept Galletly, submitted that the evidence was not of such a character as so sergeant a conviction of the charge of murder. MR. JUSTICE HAWKINS as for as regarded all the prisoners but Galletly and Lee. The Jury therefore found a verdict of

NOT GUILTY as to Graefe, Henshaw, Gouvier, Doolan, Elvis and Cole, and afterwards as to Lee, but found.

GALLETLY GUILTY was a strong recommendation to mercy on account of his youth. Sentence— DEATH .

The other prisoners were charged with unlawfully conspiring to assemble and commit a breach of the peace, and assault to which they

PLEADED GUILTY . Several witness deposed to the good character of Henshaw, Graefe, and Govier LEE and GOVIER— Fifteen Months' Hard Labor . HENSHAW— Nine Months' Hard Labour. COLE— Eight Months' Hard Labour. GRAEFE— Seven Months' Hard Labour . ELVIS and DOOLAN— Six Months' Hard Labour. An acquittal was taken on the charge of unlawfully wounding Joseph Rumbold