Old Bailey Proceedings Online (www.oldbaileyonline.org, version 8.0, 11 December 2018), November 1879, trial of SIWERIN BASTENDORF (32) (t18791124-55).

SIWERIN BASTENDORF, Deception > perjury, 24th November 1879.

55. SIWERIN BASTENDORF (32) was indicted for wilful and corrupt perjury, committed by him in an affidavit in an action between himself and George Purkiss.


WILLIAM ANTHONY FRESTON . I am a solicitor, of 152, Euston Road—I produce the original writ in the action of Siwerin Bastendorff v. George Purkiss.

Cross-examined. I am the solicitor for the defendant in this case—Mr. George Purkiss is the prosecutor—I believe he is the publisher of the Illustrated Police News—this pamphlet purports to be published at that office—I was present when one was bought there—it is in the Strand—this portrait upon it purports to be a portrait of Hannah Dobbs—there was also a placard exhibited with portraits of Mr. and Mrs. Bastendorff and their child—I was instructed on behalf of Mr. Bastendorff to bring an action for libel against Mr. Purkiss, and I issued a writ accordingly—it is since that writ was issued that Mr. Purkiss has instituted this prosecution—the proceedings in the action have not gone further than the issue of the writ, but they are not stayed—there is no statement of claim at present—in the civil action both Mr. Bastendorff and his wife could have been examined as witnesses; here they cannot—I believe there is a very extensive sale of these things; they are sold at a penny.

CHARLES JOHN TEWTELL . I am a clerk in the civil office of the Common Pleas—I produce an affidavit in the Common Pleas division in an action of Bastendorff against Purkiss, purporting to be sworn on 26th September, 1879, and filed on 7th October, 1879.

FREDERICK GEORGE HUNT . I am a solicitor, and am in the office of Mr. Bowker, of 1, Gray's Inn Square—I was present before Mr. Justice Bo wen when an application for an injunction was made to restrain the publication of the pamphlet—I saw the Judge initial this notice of motion.

Cross-examined. I only attended on behalf of Mr. Armstrong, as he was out of town that day—the application was dismissed.

LIONEL ARTHUR WENN . I am a solicitor, of 14, Bell Yard—I am a commissioner in the Superior Courts of Judicature to administer oaths—I

administered the oath to Siwerin Bastendorff to this affidavit on 26th September, 1879—I signed it; this is my signature—I can hardly say that it was signed in my presence by the person who swore it—I take a great many oaths—the signature was there at the time I administered the oath—I have no recollection of the person who swore it.

MR. HUNT (Re-examined). Thisfidavit was used on the application before the Judge.

Cross-examined. I heard it quoted—I have no means of identifying this affidavit as the one used before the Judge.

HANNAH DOBBS . I live at 31, Gilbert Street, Oxford Street—I know the defendant Siwerin Bastendorff—I first became acquainted with him in 1875—at that time I was in service at Mrs. Pearce's, 42, Torrington Square—I was cleaning the dining-room windows with Selina Knight, the housemaid, about 11 o'clock in the morning—Clara Green the nurse girl was in the room—I think it was in September or October—he asked if we wanted any help—Selina Knight said "Yes"—he remained talking for some time—I know the 'defendant's handwriting—the signature to this affidavit is his. (The affidavit was ultimately read. The pari upon which the perjury was assigned was a denial of the allegation modi in the fourth page of the pamphlet, that prior to Hannah Dobbs entering the service of the defendant or at any period, he had immoral intercourse with her. The original pamphlet produced on the hearing of the injunction was marked Exhibit A, and this not being forthcoming, a certified copy produced before the Magistrate was after much discussion proved and admitted.) I next saw the defendant about 7 o'clock that same evening; he came to the area gate, and whittled down the area, and Selina Knight went up—I afterwards went up—he asked me to go out for a walk—I said I could not go out then—he asked me if I would come out later in the evening—I told him I should not be allowed out so late; he asked me to come out after my people had gone to bed; after my master and mistress had gone to bed—I told him I would come out at 11 o'clock—nothing more passed then; he went away between 10 and 11 o'clock; I and my two fellow-servants dressed ourselves to go out—I had not locked the area gate—after we had dressed ourselves we all three laid down on the bed in the room behind the kitchen, where we all three slept, and we went to sleep—we were awoke by two policemen holding a bull's-eye lantern over us—we all three got up, went into the kitchen, I made some coffee, and gave to the policemen—they stopped about 20 minutes as near as I can say, and then went away up the area steps—I think it was about 1 o'clock when we went into the kitchen and gave them the coffee—we then locked up the area gate and the doors and went to bed—I saw the defendant the next evening about 7 o'clock—he whistled down the area again—Selina Knight went up first; I went up afterwards—he said "Why did not you keep your appointment last night?—I said we were very tired; we laid down on the bed, and dropped asleep, and were awoke by two policemen—he said, "Will you come out to night?" I said Yes, I would be out at 11—I got ready and went out at 11—I found him waiting down by the church in Torrington Square—I joined him there, and we went off together—we went to a coffee house; I don't know where it was; it was about a quarter of an hour or 20 minutes' walk from Torrington Square—I don't know in what street it was—we went into a bedroom there; I think it was on the second floor, I am not certain—we went to bed, and he had connection with me

there—we remained there about an hour or an hour and a half, it might have been two hours, I think it was about two houre—we then got up, and dressed ourselves, and went back to Torriugton Square—we walked round the square; he then went away, and I went in—I found the other servants in the kitchen—they could not go to bed, as the door was locked, and I had the key of the bedroom in my pocket—we all three went to bed then—I next saw the defendant on the following Sunday afternoon, about 3 or 3.30—my master and mistress were not at home; they had gone out of town—I saw him first at the area gate; I was looking out at the dining-room window, and I went down into the kitchen, up the area steps, and let him in—hs came down into the kitchen—Selina Knight and Clara Green were there—he was there from 3.30 till 8 o'clock—Knight and Green went out between 5 and 6 o'clock—I think he remained in the kitchen till they left—soon after they had gone we went into the bedroom—they said they were going out for a walk, and they did go, leaving me and the defendant in the kitchen—we then went into our bedroom, and he had connection with me—Green and Knight had not returned before he went—I think I next saw him on the following Tuesday evening—the family were then at home—I saw him about 9 o'clock at the area gate; he came down into the kitchen, and remained about an hour, I think—Knight and Green were there—I continued to see him on different occasions while I was in Mrs. Pearce's service—I left her service just before Christmas, 1875, and went to 42, Sandwich Street, Burton Crescent in lodgings before I got another situation—I remained there about a week, and then went into the service of Mr. Wallis, 133, Euston Road, as general servant—I was the only servant there; I remained there two or three months, and then went to Mrs. Cripps, 20, Guilford Street, Russell Square—Selina Knight was in that service as housemaid, and I was cook—I remained at Mrs. Cripps's one month—I then went to Mrs. Northoott'e, 12, New North Street, in a lodging, from the Friday till Monday—I then went to 4, Euston Square, Mr. Basteudorifs; that was-in June, 1876—while I was at Mrs. Wallis's I was in the habit of seeing the defendant; I used to meet him by St. Pancras Church—I saw him while I was at Mrs. Cripps'i; he never came in—followers were not allowed—I used to meet him at the corner by. the Foundling by appointment—I told him I should not stay with Mrs. Cripps, as I did not like it—he then told me that he was married, and told me I was not to be cross—he had not told me before that he was married; he pretended that he was single—I told him he ought to hare told me of it—he said that his wife would be in want of a servant, ana asked me if I would like to come and live with them as a servant—I asked him several things about the place—I asked him the wages—he said his wife never gave more than 11l. a year—I said I could not come for that, as I was then having 16/.—he said no doubt but that his wife would give 14l. if I asked, and he would make up the difference to me—he said when hie wife advertised he would let me know—while I was at Mrs. Northcott'e he called, and brought the newspaper containing the advertisement—I did not see him the first time he called—I was out—he left the paper—he called again later on, and I saw him (he had promised me when he saw me at Mrs. Cripps's that he would call at New North Street)—he told me that he had been there before, and brought the newspaper with him, so that I could go and see his wife—I had not seen the newspaper before he called—he gave it me—I looked at the advertisement, and I went to see Mrs.

Bastendorff at No. 4—I don't remember what I did wish the newspaper) it was the Clerkenwe)l paper—the defendant was not present when I had the interview with Mrs. Bastendorff—I saw her twice before I went into the service—he was net present on either occasion—I saw her the second time on the Saturday, and I went in on the Monday—a contract of service was entered into between me and Mrs. Bastendorff; she agreed to take me as servant—I think it was on 17th June, I am speaking from memory—at the latter end of 1875 and the commencement of 187s. the appearance of the defendant was different to what it is no w—his beard waa very long when I first knew him, a great deal longer then it is now; it came down to about here (describing); it was a very long beard—I remained in the service till August, 1877—during that time there was intercourse between us from time to time—there was another servant, a nurse girl, when I entered the service, Ellen Peek; she was about 14—Mr. Brooks kept his own servant—Ellen Peek was the only other servant in Beaten-dorff's service—we both went there the same day—she went on the Monday morning, and I went on the Monday evening—she left the beginning of January, 1877; no other servant same in her place—from January to August I was the sole servant in the Bastenderfa service—in June, 1876, they and three children; the eldest was between fire And six I think, the next about three, and the youngest about twelve months—Mr. and Mrs. Brooks had the dining-room, drawing-room, and a small room at the top of the house on the third floor for the servant; the back drawing-room was need as a bedroom—their servant was a female—I do not remember her name—they also had the back kitohen, and the outside coal cellar in the area—there was one coal cellar in the area, and one inside in the scullery—I have told you all the inmates of the house in January, 1876; the Brookses left at the end of December, 1876—Miss Griffiths came to live there then—before the Brookses left a Mrs. Pollard was there for a week; she had one room, the second floor back—I think that was in July—after she left Mr. Waldron came, before the Brookses left; he was there three weeks—he occupied the second floor back, the same room Mrs. Pollard had occupied, and we had people from No. 2 to sleep by the night—I have now mentioned all the occupants during the Brookses' time—after they left Miss Griffiths was the next that came—she occupied the drawing-room floor, and the second floor, and she had three rooms at the top of the house as well, and the back kitchen; she took the rooms unfurnished, and let them again—she was there two months; she came in January and left in March, 1877—Mr. Findlay came there to lodge with Miss Griffiths, and Mr. Minossa—Mr. Findlay occupied one large room at the top of the house, and he used the drawing-room as a sitting-room in common with others—Mr. Findlay left with Miss Griffiths in March, and came back in a week—Mr. Minossa stopped; Mr. Bastendorff asked him to stop, and let him have the room 6d. a week cheaper; he was also a lodger of Miss Griffhhs's; he occupied a small room at the top of the house, and the drawing-room as a sitting-room with the others—I am sure that Mr. Findlay and Mr. Minossa were the only persons that occupied the rooms as Miss Griffiths's lodgers—when Mr. Findlay returned he had the second floor back for a little while, I don't remember how long, not long, rather over a week; he took that one, because we had not furnished the top room that he had

before; he then went to the top room, his old lodging—a friend of Mr. Mimossa's came to lodge there about a fortnight after Miss Griffiths left' I don't remember his name—he had one of the small rooms at the top of the house; he stopped about a fortnight or three weeks—Mr. and Mrs. Leffler were the next persons that came—they occupied two rooms on the second floor, one as a bedroom and one as a sitting-room; they came about July, I think; they remained about a month—they were there when I left in August, 1877, and Mr. Findlay, nobody else—they were the sole lodgers in the house when I left in August—I returned into the service at the end of August—I had left on the Friday, and on the Saturday I went to Redhill—when I returned into the service at the end of August the same lodgers were not there—Mr. Riggenbach came in April—the old lodgers had gone except Mr. Riggenbach, I forgot him; he came in April, 1877, and when I returned in August he was the only lodger left; he had the two rooms on the drawing-room floor, with his own furniture—a lady and gentleman came for about 10 days, I don't remember their names; they had the back parlour and second floor front—Miss Hacker was the next that came; I don't remember the day of the month that she came; she came on the Monday, I think it was in September, and took the second floor front room, and on the Tuesday she came in—she only occupied that one room all the time she was there—she sat and slept in the same room; that was all she had; she had her meals in the same room—sometimes she was in the dining-room with Mrs. Bastendorff, the front room; she sometimes sat there with Mrs. Bastendorff; that was the room the Bastendorffs used when they did not let it—Miss Hacker remained there three weeks, and had begun her fourth week the last time I saw her—I left the service for good and all in September, 1878.

By the COURT. I could not fix the date—the last time I saw Miss Hacker she was in her bedroom writing a letter, and she went out to post it—I saw her go out of the house, about 11,1 think, in the morning—I think it was about the Thursday; it might have been Friday, I don't I know—it was in October, 1877, I don't remember the date—I never saw I her again after I saw her go out to post the letter.

By MR. WILLIAMS. I first saw Peter Bastendorff the same week that I I first went into the employment of Mrs. Bastendorff—he did not live on I the premises; I don't remember where he was living—he had very little beard at that time—I used to see him from time to time at his brother's house; he generally came there on Saturdays—I had intercourse with his; I it commenced at the end of January, 1877—before that I had reason to I believe there was something the matter with me; I told the defendant that I thought I was with child—Peter had asked me for the key of the street I door, and I told the defendant—it was soon after I was engaged—Peter had not asked me to marry him, he had made me an offer to keep company with him; that was at the end of December, 1876—I told the defendant that Peter had asked me for the key of the street door before I told him that I was in the family way—I cold him that Peter had asked me for the key that he might come in in the night and deep with me—when I told him that I thought I was with child he said "Peter has asked you for the key, let him have it, and put the child on him"—it was after that that Peter had connection with me for the first time—I slept in a small room at the top of the house—the connection between me and the defendant

continued up to the time I left for good and all in September, 1878—I never went to 4, Euston Square after that—when I left the first time it was on a Friday in August, 1877—on the next day, Saturday, I met the defendant at the Victoria Station.

(Mr. Powell objected to the reception of the evidence about to be tendered, as not applying to the perjury alleged in the indictment, which was confined to a denial of the allegation in the 4th page of the pamphlet. MR. JUSTICE HAWKINS considered the evidence admissible,) I met the defendant at the Victoria Station about five o'clock on the Saturday afternoon, by appointment, and we went by train to Redhill—we first went into a public-house there near the station—we did not remain there any time—the defendant only went in to have a glass of ale—after that we went to Mrs. Carponter's the Red Lion—we saw Mrs. Carpenter, and the defendant asked for a bedroom till Monday—she said yes she had got one—we went into the smoking-room there—I think it was about 8 o'clock when we got to Mrs. Carpenter's—the defendant had a glass of ale in the smoking-room—we remained there, and went to bed between 9 and 10 o'clock—I think I had with me one parcel and my waterproof, and the defendant had his bag—some one that was at Mrs. Carpenter's showed us up to the bedroom, Mrs. Carpenter carried the things up—the defendant and I slept together that night—we got up on Sunday morning and went out; I think just after 10 o'clock—I saw Mrs. Carpenter on the Sunday morning—we were out all day, and returned about 8 o'clock—I think it may be a little before or after; I could not say for certain—we had been for a walk over the commons—we went straight up to bed directly we got back—I saw Mrs. Carpenter that night—we got up on Monday morning and left between 10 and 11, I think—we had intercourse there—I saw Mrs. Carpenter before we left—we came to London to Victoria Station, and went and had dinner together—I don't know where it was; it was some distance from Victoria Station, towards the Edgware Road—we parted about 3 or 4 o'clock, I think, about the same place where we took our dinner—I saw him again that night between 7 and 8 o'clock in the Edgware Road by appointment, and he went and took a room for me at 21, Nutford Place—I slept there that night alone—he only went in and took the room for me, and went away again—I only remained there one night—on the Tuesday night he took a room for me at the Railway Hotel in Argyle Street, King's Cross—I remained there the night; the defendant was there with me about two hours; he went to bed with me and connection took place there—the next night, Wednesday, I went to the tobacco shop at King's Cross, No. 144, I think—the defendant took a room there for me—I remained there one night—after that I slept at 4, Euston Square, the defendant's house, until I re-entered the service—I slept in the second floor back—the defendant let me in at night; he always met me at St. Pancras Church—that did not continue from the time I left the tobacconist's shop until I re-entered the service; on the second Saturday, from Saturday till Monday, I went to Redhill with Christina Bastendorff—I left Mrs. Bastendorffs on the Friday, and the Saturday after I slept by myself in the Euston Road—I took the bed myself, as the defendant was in the country—with certain exceptions, from the time I left the tobacconist's shop the defendant met me of a night at St. Pancras Church, and I slept at 4, Euston Square—I don't remember the number in the Euston Road where I slept on the Friday night—it was the end near Tottenham Court Road—

it was on the Saturday after, the third Saturday, that I went to Redhill with Christina Bastendorff—she is" the defendant's eldest danghter—we went to the Brighton Road, Redhill—I don't remember the number or the land lady's name; it was a private house—I stayed there with Christina Basten-dorff until the following Tuesday—with those exceptions I have accounted for the whole of the time where I slept—I returned to the service on the Friday after—I was tried at the Central Criminal Court for the murder of Miss Hacker last July, and was acquitted—after the trial I made a statement, which was subsequently embodied in this pamiphlet; I wrote it myself; I received 30/. for it—that was all the money I received in respect of the pamphlet—I received that from Mr. Moore, one of the agents of the Central News Office—the first cheque I had was for 101—I received that in a coffee-house near Tottenham Court Road; the next sum I received was a cheque for 20/. at the Central News Office—after leaving 4, Euston Square for the last time I remained in London at 67, George Street, Gower Street Station, for three weeks I think; I then went with Mrs. Kregger at 10, Milton Street, Euston Street—I remained there a week; the defendant sent me there—I went there and took the room myself; it is a friend of the defendant's—I then went to my home at Bideford—I remained there a fortnight I think—I then came up to London again and went to Hunter Street, Brunswick Square—I don't remember the landlady's name, or the number—I stayed there a fortnight; I took the place myself—I then went to No. 9, Burton Street, Burton Crescent, for a week—I took that place myself—I was arrested there for stealing some things at the Hunter Street house—between the time of my leaving 4, Easton Square, and my going to Bideford, I saw the defendant several times (when I left Euston Square he was in Luxemburg)—the first time I saw him he called on me at 67, George Street, Mrs. Wright's,; he called there to pay me some money that he owed me—he did not call on me at any other house before I went to Bideford—I met him several times at different places by appointment; I saw him two or three times after my return from Bideford before I was taken into custody for stealing the things in Hunter' Street—I met him first just a little way off" St. Pancras Church, by appointment—I had a letter from him when I was at Bideford; he had promised to go down to Bideford with me, but he did not—I have not got the letter; I burnt it; I am not in the habit of keeping any one's letters—I did not answer it—it was in consequence of that letter that I met him—I saw him at the same place on each occasion; not in any house—I was charged at Bow Street with stealing the things in Hunter Street, and was committed and tried; I don't know where it was—I pleaded guilty and was sentenced to eight months' imprisonment, not with hard labour—I was doing my sentence in the prison when I was brought up for the murder—had not completed my term of imprisonment—I was taken to the police-court and remanded from time to time—I was prosecuted by the Treasury authorities and tried in the other Court.

Cross-examined. I have not any letter, or note, or any scrap of paper whatever that the defendant ever wrote to me; the letter which I got at Bideford I burnt as soon as I read it, I had no occasion to keep it—I have had two letters from him, this was the first—I had them both when I was at Bideford—it was in the first letter that he made the appointment—I got

the second letter after I left; I had one before that—I get the second latter when I was at home at Bideford, that is the one you are speaking of, it was the first letter that contained the appointment to meet him at St. Pancras Church; no, it was the second letter, I made a mistake; I burnt them both; I never keep any one's letters—Peter Bastendorff cashed the 10l. cheque for me—when I came out of prison, after serving the eight months, Peter was down there—the first time I ever saw the defendant was 'when I was cleaning the windows in Torrington Square; it was a day or two afterwards that 1 went out with him at night after the family were all gone to bed—the first time I ever went out with him we went to a coffee-house and I went to bed with him—I had not been with nay gentleman below—I said at Bow Street that I was not a chaste woman, but I did not know what it meant—I know what it means now, it means that I had never had any connection with any man before that—I was a chaste woman when I went with the defendant—at Bow Street I was asked if I were a chaste woman, and I said "No"—I thought it meant had I been with any gentleman before, and I said I was not a chaste woman—(the defendant was the first person with whom I had intercourse—I was at one time in the service of Lady Buck—this is true, "My folly and trouble began together at that place; one of the footmen and I became intimate we were great friends, he never had any (Connection with me—a cheque of Lady Back's was given to me to get changed; I think it was in 1872—I was not dismissed in consequence of that cheque—I gave warning to leave, that was not after the discovery about the cheque; I had given warning before that, and left in pursuance of my warning—I came to London after leaving Lady Bock's, and went to live at Rotherhithe—I'did not make the acquaintance of a policeman there; he came to visit me twice after I came to live in London—I was then living at Mrs. Pearce's; he used to come in plain clothes—became as a young man that I was keeping company with—I had not been engaged to the footman—I had been engaged before I came to London—the police-man visited me as a person to whom I was engaged—that was when I first went to Mrs. Pearce's—the engagement was broken off—I did not go from Rotherhithe to a situation with Mrs. Nicholson at Redhill; that was a mistake, I went from Rotherhithe to Torrington Square—I did go and stay at Redhill for some time in the Woodlands Road—that was before I went to Torrington Square—I stayed there 16 months—I think I know Redhill pretty well, but I never went about much; I had no company to go about with, therefore I did not know much about it—I only took a walk to church; attended church constantly—while I was at Redhill I stole 2l. 3s. from a box—I don't know that it was a missionary box—perhaps it would pat have made much difference if I had known it—I did not steal a piece of silk worth several pounds—I did steal a piece of silk—I was some months out of a situation after I left Mrs. Nicholson's—it might have been 12 months—my mother came up from Devonshire and paid the money that was required with reference to the box and the silk, and I then went home and stayed there nearly 12 months, my father and mother maintaining me—I then wrote to a servants' registry office—it was not through that I got the engagement with Mrs. Pearce—I answered an advertisement and got the situation through that, some time in the early part of 1875—I remember going to church every Wednesday when I first wont there—it might have been in Lent—after some little time I did not go—I only went for several week—

I went a time or two with Mrs. Pearce she went after I left off going—I don't know that it was in Lent; I forget—I was not charged at Mrs. Pearee'i with having stolen a sovereign—there was a dispute about a sovereign—I was not accused of it I did not leave in consequence of it—no sovereign was given to me, nor yet a shilling—Mrs. Pearce said she gave Selina Knigbt a sovereign for Clara Green to get some butter with—I said that I saw a shilling on the corner of the table, but no money was given to me—that was the month I was leaving—I had given warning—it is not true that I left Mrs. Pearce to go to Mrs. Wallis's; that is a mistake in the pamphlet—when I left Mrs. Pearce I went in Sandwich Street in lodgings, and then I went to Mrs. Wallis—I left Mrs. Wallis to go to Mrs. Cripps for higher wages—I think I stayed in Sandwich Street about a week—I was at Mb. Wallis's two or three months; that was at 133, Euston Road, I think, and I left there to go to Mrs. Cripps—I heard of Mrs. Cripps's situation through Selina Knight—she called on me once in Sandwich Street, and, once at Mrs. Wallis's I think—it might have been twice, but no I more—I met her the evening I was going to see Mrs. Cripps—we lived there together; she was servant at Mrs. Cripps—it was in consequence of what she told me that I applied for the situation there; I only stayed there one month—I left because I did not like it—Selina Knight called once; that was in Guilford Street—from there I went to No. 12, New North Street, Mrs. Northcott's; that is a private house where they let apartments—I was not in service there, I was only two or three days lodging there—I should have looked out for another situation after leaving Mrs. Cripps if I had not known that I was going to the defendant's—I did not know that I was going there before I went to Sandwich Street; I did not know that the defendant was married then—I think I went there on 17th June, 1876, and left on 2nd August, 1877; I was away nearly a month when I left in August, and I went back to live there again—Mr. Riggen-bach was still living there then—he complained of missing some of his things; there was a little dispute inconsoqnence of that; that was in July, 1877—that was not the reason for my leaving the second time—they did not accuse me of having pledged Mr. Kiggenbaeh's things or having sold them—the defendant wanted some money and he pawned all his own things that he had got—it was after the dispute of Mr. Riggenbach'i things that I left; he lost some more things again in 1878, there was another dispute about that—I did not pledge the second lot, I did the first; I did not sell the second lot, I had nothing to do with it—Mr. Riggenbach visited me when I was in prison for stealing; I told him I knew nothing about his things, he came to ask me about the second lot; it was true as to those—I had pawned the first lot—I did not tell him so, I told him I knew nothing about the second lot—I swear I had not pawned or sold the second lot—I did not sell the second lot to Mrs. Pearce in Euston Street—I never sold Mrs. Pearce any gentlemen's clothing or blankets, or things of that sort, I sold some ladies' clothing—I had not sold anything of Mr. Riggenbach's there; Mrs. Pearce keeps a wardrohe shop, a place for the sale of second hand clothes; I did sell some things to her, but none of Mr. Riggenbach's—I pledged the first lot of his things at Mr. Clarke's, 21, Hampstead Road—I pledged them for the defendant, because he wanted the money for us to go to Redhill together—I knew they were the lodger's things, (The following passages at page

4 of the pamphlet were read to the witness: "Mr. Findlay, the American, came to lodge with Miss Griffiths, taking the large top room. Mr. Findlay seemed to be a very mysterious personage, he had lots of money, got I know not how"—I did not know how the other lodgers got their money, I never saw anybody get money like Mr. Findlay—"but where he and his money have gone to, I am only permitted to suspect"—I could not say when I wrote this pamphlet where he and his money had gone to—to tell the truth, I mean to say that perhaps he might have been done the same as Miss Hacker—I meant that the sane might have been done to him as was done to Miss Hacker—that is what I suspect; there was a Mr. Findlay lodging there—I stated before the Magistrates, "I have read the pamphlet, there are two or three mistakes in it; one is that I went to Redhill with Mrs. Bastendorff; it should have been Mr. Bastendorff, and there is a wrong name of one of the gentlemen lodgers; Mr. Waldron it should be, it is Mr. Warren, I think those are the only mistakes, the rest of the pamphlet is true. "It is true; there may be some little mistakes in the dates—in the pamphlet H says that I went from Torrington Square to Mrs. Cripps; it should be that I wont to Sandwich Street, and that I went to Mrs. Wallis's before I went to Mrs. Cripps—with those explanations I think the rest of the pamphlet is tree, and that is what I mean. Q. Then are the jury to understand that when you wrote this you suspected that Mr. Findlay, like Miss Hacker, had been murdered at 4, Euston Square?—A. That was what I fancied, that was what I thought; because the defendant had a revolver. I first thought it when I went back into the service—when I went back I found that Mr. Findlay was gone. I don't say that I knew he had been murdered in the house; I did not suspect he was in the house; I did not think anything about it. I did suspect that he had been murdered. I went back and resided in the house where a lodger was missing since I left, suspecting that he was murdered. I afterwards had a watch and chain exactly like Mr. Findlay's, and which I thought was like Mr. Findlay's; I had that just after I went back to the service, about a week after I think. I don't remember how long I had it, about a fortnight or three weeks. I gave it back to the defendant I afterwards received the watch and chain of Miss Hacker. "The police have been too stupid to guess, their officers too im-becile even to accept, a broad and startling clue. Dogberry and Noodle-dum. No matter, that is public business now. "The startling due was to see if they could go and find Mr. Findlay—I could only suspect where he had gone to—I had not told the police that I thought he was murdered—that was what I thought myself; now you are speaking of what I said of the police—as I said before, the startling clue was to see if they could find him, and inquire about him—I did think he had been murdered, and yet I remained in the situation—I do not know who Dogberry is; I never heard of him till I read the pamphlet; I don't know where he lives—I don't know anything about it—I do not know who Noodle dum is, or what he is, or where he lives—I could not fix the time after my return when I received Miss Hacker's watch and chain; the last time I saw Miss Hacker was when she went out to post the letter—that might be on the Thursday or Friday I know it was after she had gone over the third week—she had gone out to post her letter, and she had not returned—it was on the Thursday or Friday that I went to Hampstead with the Bastendorff s' children; it might have been Wednesday—I can't

say; it was the same day On which I had seen her go to port the letter I think it was a week after that that I had her watch and chain; I had her eyeglass too, it was attached on to the chain—I had not often sees that watch and chain and eyeglass; Miss Hacker never wore it—I waited on her she did not wear it on Sundays indoors; she only wore it when she went to church—I never saw her eyeglass, only when she went to church—she had an eyeglass; she might have used that one to read her Book of Fate, but I have not noticed it—I knew that the watch and chain was hew after I saw the remains in the coal cellar. (MR. WILLIAM interposed, and called attention to the fact that the witness, although acquited of the murder, was still liable to be indicted as an accessory after the fact. MR. JUSTICE HAWKIS told the witness that anything which the believed would criminate herself, she was justified in refusing to answer.) I think I sat Miss Hacker's remains at the end of November or the beginning of December, 1877—I remained in the service of Mr. Bastendorff until September, the following year; not knowing that the remains were in the coal cellar—they were out in the outside coal cellar when I saw them, in the area; there are two coal cellars—I did not pawn the watch I pawned the chain in March: that would be three or four months after the remains had been found in the coal cellar—I don't know what became of the watch; I gave it to the defendant—I gave it to him to pawn, or to get it pawned—the coal cellars are side by side, one inside and the other out of the area—you have to go into the area to get to the outer one, you get to the inner one from the scullery, in the house; ft opens directly from the scullery—the two coal cellars are side by side under the pavement—J always understood from the defendant that the remains were "buried in the square; I mean in the enclosure—I under I stood that from him after they were moved away from the coal cellar, the I next morning after I saw the remains—remained there till the following I September, after I had been told that the remains of Miss Hacker had been buried in the square. (A passage from page 11 of the pamphlet was I read to the witness relating to the death of a little boy.) Q. Do you mean to sat I that you saw that boy killed? A. I said in the pamphlet that that was I true, but I decline to answer any of these questions; it is true—I don't I know what month that was in; in October, 1877, I think—I think it was I at the end of October—after seeing that, I remained till the following September; I then went to 67, George Street, Gower 'Street Station, Mr. Wright's—I went there in lodgings—I remained there about three weeks I I think—from there I went to Mr. Krigger's, a friend of the defendant's, 10, Milton Street, Euston Square; I stayed there one week—I then went home to Bideford, and remained there a fortnight or three weeks—Peter Bastendorff came to visit me there, as my husband; he slept with me at my father and mother's house—the defendant told me, when I was going down, that he would come down, but he wrote me a letter and told me he could not come, and said I was to send to Peter to come down, as he I could not—I have not got that letter—Peter came down on the Monday, and he and I came up to town on the "Wednesday—I think so; if I was I certain I would say so—we parted in Gower Street—he had a shop then in I Huntley Street—he went to his shop and I went to get a room in Hunter I Street—I occupied that room a fortnight—Peter did not visit me there—I met him while I was there—I went to his shop several times; that was I about 10 minutes' walk from Hunter Street—I went out with him a time I

or two—we did not have intercourse while I was staying there—I went from Hunter Street to Burton Street, and stayed there a week—the houses in Hunter Street and Barton Street were lodging-houses, where you could lodge for a night or a shorter time—I did not inquire whether they only took you in for a night—I went to prison from Burton Street for stealing the things from Hunter Street—I got eight months—I did not get hard labour; I don't think so; I did not hear it; I was not sentenced to hard labour, simply imprisonment—it is true that I richly deserved it. (A passage from page 14 of the pamphlet was read relating to her prison life, expressive of penitence, and a desire, to lead a better life.) Peter came to meet me at the prison gates when I left the prison, but I did not speak to him—I spoke to him about a week after—I took a cab myself, not with him—it is true that since I came out of prison I have had intercourse with him, twice—I came out on 8th August last—I have not been doing anything since—I have had some money from any home, and I have had some from the pamphlet—I don't remember when I got the 10l. cheque; it was some time in August, I think, when I first began to give the statement, to write it; at the end of August,' I think—I had enough from home to live on before that; I had had 3l.; my mother sent it me—I saw Peter last about three weeks ago, I think—I have been at Bow Street twice since I saw him—I have not seen him since I was at Bow Street—he has not been on good terms with the defendant, but he is now, I suppose, because he told me had made friends with his brother the last time I saw nam, when he came to see me in Southwark Bridge Road—I was lodging there—I have been to the police-court twice since I left there—Peter has keen with me on several occasions to the office of the Central News while this pamphlet was being pnepsred for the press—he has not been with me to Mr. Armstrong's, the solicitor for the prosecution—I have not seen him there; he has been there, hut I 'have not seen him—I have been there—I state every now and then in the pamphlet "Peter Bastendorff corroborates this"—I had ascertained that from him while the pamphlet was being written—the ones I saw he told them that it was quite true—when I had written some of the statements I have taken it down to the Central News, and Peter has been there, and it was read over in his presence, or he read it over and said it was true—we servants were not in the habit of going out at night when we were intorruigton Square—the defendant's was the first invitation that had been given to me—I accepted it—we all three dressed ourselves and fell asleep and the policemen came—I had seen both the policemen before; tone of them was a sergeant—inquiry has been made for them; I have not seen either of them since—I have not been to see if I could identify them,; I could,; I said I did not want to go; I don't know that I have been asked; I should know them if I were to see them—it was not Mr. Pearce's habit to have the keys of the area and the house taken up to him at night when he went to bed; he left it entirely to the servants—the next night I went out by myself, leaving Knight and Green in the house; they knew I was going out; I left about 11—we were always in the habit of locking the door of our bedroom, and I put the key in my pocket by 'mistake—they did not ask me about it.; they were in the kitchen when I went out—I don't think they asked one when I was coming in—they did not say anything about the key—I kept them up till 2 or half-past—they never went out at night after the family had gone to bed.; I did—the intercourse with the defendant was carried on

until I left Mrs. Pearce's—I went to live with him—he told me he was a married man when I was at Mrs. Oripps's, and I then learnt his name—I went to live with him, having had intercourse with him, and to have inter course with him as a married man in his own house—that continued up to! the time of my becoming acquainted with Peter—it was some time in I November or December that Peter asked me to keep company with him—he never promised mo marriage—I was engaged to him at the end of December—he never said anything about marriage—people get engaged in hopes to get married some time, I suppose—I did not say at Bow Street that I was engaged to be married to Peter; I said I was engaged, but not engaged to be married; I meant engaged to be married at some time—it was in January that I thought I was in the family way—I was engaged to be married to Peter at the time I was in the family way by his brother—the defendant and his wife knew we were engaged—it was with the defendant's permission that I gave Peter the key—he took it off the dresser; that was that he might come in in the night and have intercourse with me—he availed himself of the key several times—the house was pretty full of lodgers sometimes—the defendant had three children at that time, he has five now; I think they slept at the top of the house—when I went there first there were two beds in one room, the two children slept in one bed and the girl Peck and myself in the other for a few weeks, then I had a room to myself—after Peck left, no one slept with the children for some time—I did, in the spare bed in the same room; that was the room and the bed at which Peter used to visit me; that was on the same floor that Mr. and Mrs. Bastendorff slept—on 2nd August when I left, I told Peter that I was going to Bideford—the night before I left town I slept with Peter at a coffee-house, the Railway Hotel in Argyle Street, the same one that I afterwards went to with the defendant—after Peter had slept with me he went with me to the I railway-station to see me off to Bideford—instead of taking a ticket to I Bideford, I only took one to Vauxhall, and having parted with Peter, I went I to Vauxhall and came back again and met the defendant, so that I played 11 trick upon Peter—it was after that that I went to Redhill with the I defendant—when I came back with him we went and had some dinner, I I don't know the place; we came from Victoria Station and went on towards I the Edgware Road; it was not in the Edgware Road that we had dinner—I when we were at Redhill we went out early on the Sunday morning—we I did not have any breakfast before we went out—we did not return till 10 I at night—we went and had some dinner soon after 1 o'clock, I don't remember the place—I was never there before, I could go and find it—I went to Redhill with Mr. Armstrong to show him the place—there is no I one here from the house where the defendant had dinner, that I know of; I they said they could not remember us, just coming in and having our I dinner—we did not have any tea, we were obliged to be scanty, for money I was scarce; we had no breakfast or tea, no more than some biscuits, and we I went to bed without any supper; that is true—after coming to London and I having dinner I did not go to the coffee house where I had slept on the I Friday night; I went for a walk—I met the defendant again the same night—I slept by myself that night in Nutford Place; the defendant took the room for me—we did not go to bed together there, we did not have intercourse there; I think it does say so there (in the deposition)—I said so at Bow Street I think—on the Tuesday night I went to the Argyle

Hotel; on Monday night I slept by myself, the same as in the pamphlet. (The following extract from page 5 of the pamphlet was read to the witness: "I met Mr. Bastendorff at Victoria Station and we went to Redhill together; next night a room was taken in the Edgware Road, and there I passed the night alone the following night, Saturday, was passed at the hotel in Argyle Street, King's Cross; on Sunday, Kew Gardens.") It was not that Sunday that was spent at Kew Gardens—that is not as I wrote it down in my book—I went again and again to the office—the pamphlet states that I have read it through and declare it to be correct in every particular—I did not any I went to Kew with the defendant—it was not that Sunday that I went to Kew, I was at Redhill, I could not go—I did not read all the pamphlet—I did not read it from beginning to end—I did not write that part that it was true in every particular—I don't know who wrote it—I signed my name to it—I was told to sign it—I don't know by whom, Mr. Moore or Mr. Birley—I did not think of all these little things at the time—I said I thought all the rest was true, all the other particulars—I have not seen much of Mr. Moore and Mr. Birley lately—I have seen them several times about this matter, and have been about with them—I have not seen them here to-day—I saw Mr. Birley here yesterday, but have not spoken to him—I have not seen Selina Knight at their office—I saw her at Mr. Armstrong's office, I met her there—I have seen her every day that the case has been on, every time we came to the Court—I have not gone away with her—I have met Clara Green at the Court, and have seen her twice at Mr. Armstrong's office—I have not seen her at the. Central News office—I saw Selina Knight three or four times between the time of my leaving Mrs. Pearoe and going to Mrs. Cripps—we were always intimate after becoming acquainted at Mrs. Pearce's—I never went to see a baby at Goodge Street, nor vet a child—I really mean to say that, and it is true—I did not go to see her in Goodge Street—I do not know Mrs. Jones in Goodge Street, or Mr. Jones—I know Richard Henry Jones, I have seen him once—I was down there one evening, at his house with Selina Knight, in Goodge Street, Tottenham Court Road—I don't think I went by appointment—Selina Knight went with me, because it was a friend of hers—we went out one evening from Torrington Square, I think—I did not see a child there, nor hear of one—I did not know there was a child there—Selina Knight did not go to see a child to my knowledge—I went into Mrs. Grippe's service because Selina was there—she came and told me and I got a situation in the same house.

Re-examined. I only saw Knight once after leaving Mrs. Cripps's up to the time she became a witness in this case—there was no immoral connection between me and the footman at Lady Buck's—by my first folly and trouble taking place there I meant on account of the cheque, not on account of any connection with the footman—the cheque was put into a letter to send to London to a housemaid at Mrs. Buck's house—the footman took it out of the post bag and asked me to change it, and I gave him 1l. 10s. out of it—the cheque was for 3l. 3s., I think—I went into the town to do some shopping, and I went to my milliner's and left the cheque there for a bonnet—I did not cash it, I gave the footman 1l. 10s. out of my pocket before I took the cheque to bo cashed—I was going next day to get the cheque to go and change it, but I did not go for a day or two, and it was found,

and that was three days before I left my situation—I did not get any money for the cheque—the kitchen maid, I think, went to my milliner's awl the milliner asked her how it was I had not been, as I had loft the cheque there, and then it was found out—that was not the reason I left my place—the footman stole it out of the bag—I knew that he had stolen it—that was what I meant by its being my first trouble—it was a considerable time before I knew the defendant that I knew the policeman at Rotherhithe who visited me at Mr. Pearce's, it was before Knight and Green came there—I gave notice to leave Mrs. Pearce in the ordinary way—no imputation of dishonesty was brought against me while I was there—the things that I pledged of Mr. Riggenbach's were some of his clothes, trousers or jackets, or something—I did not take them, I took them from the defendant's hands—he gave them to me, and asked me to go and pledge them, and I did pledge them at Mr. Clarke's, 21, Hampstead Road I think it was—I don't remember what money I received—I gave it to the defendant with the ticket—I don't renumber in what name I pledged them—the defendant said he wanted to go into the country for a change, but he had not got money enough, and be asked me to pledge the things—he said he would take them out again when he could, he knew Mr. Riggenbach would not miss them, as he had got such a lot—I don't remember what day of the week it was that I pawned the things, it was a day or two before I left there, a few days before I left—we went down to Redhill on the Saturday it was in that same week that I pawned the things, shortly before the Saturday—I met Peter Basteudorff at Victoria Station on that Saturday; he had told me the night before that he would meet me there the defendant told me to take the ticket for the next station from Waterloo, he did not say what station; he said I was to let Peter think I was going to Bideford, and I was to come back and meet him at Victoria Station at 5 o'clock, and I did so as to the paragraph at page 5 beginning "Next night a room was taken, "&c., I did not know it was written like that; that room was taken on the Monday night at Nutford Place, Edgware lioad, the same night that I returned from Redhill—I was at Redhill from Saturday to Monday,; it was not that Saturday that I went to Kew Gardens—I did not go to Kew Gardens on a Saturday.; I think it was on a Monday, the Monday alter, I think—I went there one day, and I think it was a Monday—when I returned to Mr. Bastendoriff's Mr. Findlay had gone—it was about a week after my return that the defendant gave me the watch and chain which corresponded with Mr. Findlay's—he had often promised me a present, and he came down one morning and said "I have got a present for you at last; "he gave it me, I looked at it and said "It is like Mr. Find lay's; "he handed me the watch and chain at the same time—he said "How do you know it is like Mr. Findlay's?" I said "Because I have seen it many times;" he said "It is not Mr. Find lay's, I bought it at a sale; "I said "It is just like it;" he said "There are many watches alike;" I said "it is too large for me, this is a gentleman's watch;" he said "You can wear that before I can get you smaller one; "nothing else was said at that time—I took the watch and chain and kept them, not until he gave me Miss Hacker's watch and chain—I had returned that one before I received Miss Haoker's, about a month before, I think; it may be more, it may be live weeks—he asked me for it—he came down in the kitchen one morning and asked me he said

"Let me have that watch and chain, will you, and I will give you a smaller one; "I gave it to him, and I did not see anything of it afterwards—when he gave me Miss Hacker's watch and chain and eyeglass he came down in the kitchen and handed me a little box, and said "Here is a present for you"—I opened the box, and said "Is this for me?" he said "Yes, it is a smaller one than the first," he said "You will say you had it given to you by your uncle, the same as you said you had the first one from"—he said he had bought it—I did not know it was Miss Hacker's—he said "I bare bought this watch, but this one is rather large, you can wear that, and I may get the chance of buying a smaller one, and I will change that again; "that was all that passed that I can remember—I pawned the watch and chain, I think, in March—I remember taking the children to Hampstead when I saw Miss Hacker go to post a letter; I don't remember the day I went to Hampstead, but I think it was the Saturday after that that this conversation with the defendant took place; I know I received the watch on the Saturday; I cannot fix a date—it was before I pawned the chain that the defendant asked me for Miss Hacker's watch—I never saw that watch again after I gave it to him—he never handed me any money that he had received as the proceeds of the watch—he told me he had pawned it, I saw the ticket; he showed me a ticket, and said he had pawned the watch, and he would take it out again as soon as he could—he asked me to pawn the chain when he wanted some money—I first pawned Mrs. Bastendorffs necklet—there was some young person that had a child by Mr. Basteudorff—he gave me the necklet to pawn; he asked me if I would go and pawn it as he wanted the money—he said he wanted to pay her off, calling the girl by name, all at once, that she had had a child by him—I don't remember the girl's name now; she was a French girl; I had seen her at the house; she had been to the house; that was what took place at the time the necklet was given to me—it was about two days after the necklet was pawned that he asked me to pawn the chain, as he wanted to take the necklet out again, as his wife should not know it; he said so—I then pawned the chain—I never took it out of pawn—I gave the money to the defendant, except 2l. 10s. that I bought a watch with—when he gave me the necklet to pawn he said I could buy a small watch for myself—the chain was pawned for 7l.—the necklet was pawned at Mr. Gill's, in the Hampstead Road, in the name of Barnett, I think; I did not give any other name—I pawned the chain in Drummond Street; I don't remember the name; it was near the Hampstead Road end, Thomas's, I think—I pawned it in the name of Bastendorff—the necklet was redeemed; I went and took it out myself; that was after the chain was pawned—what 1 have written at page 14 of the pamphlet about my preparing for confirmation and about the clergyman and the sermon is true; I was confirmed—I don't remember the parson's name; it was at Tothill Fields Prison—Peter told me that he and his brother were bad friends no longer; he told me that in Southwark Bridge Road when he came to me one night about half-past 12—I think it was after the second hearing at Bow Street on this charge—I have been down to Redhill with Mr. Armstrong to the place where the defendant and I bad some refreshment on the Sunday, and I recognised a woman there—when I returned to Torrington Square after being out for the first night with the defendant I found my fellow-servants flitting up, and they were very cross with me for having taken the key of the bedroom out with me.

By the COURT. The threo of us slept in that room—it was usual to lock the door during the day; wo always kept it locked; there was only one key; sometimes I had it in my pocket, sometimes one of the others' had in their pocket, whoever went into the room last—we kept it locked, because our bedroom was downstairs, and the children were always running about it was an arrangement between ourselves, not a rule of the house—that had been the arrangement from the time that I first went there—the children went to bed about 9 o'clock—I was always in the habit of keeping the do locked; not always; I happened to lock it that night—the other servants were not going out—I left them sitting together at needlework—I had Miss Hacker's watch in my possession long, only a few weeks, I think—the chain was pawned some time in March, 1878—I had it in my possession from the time I first received it until March—Inspector Hogan has the eye-glass now; I kept it until it was taken out of my box after my arrest for the murder—I had not the watch up to Christmas; I think I gave it to the defendant at the end of October or the beginning of November, as near as can say—I had not seen the watch chain and eyeglass constantly in Mil Hacker's possession—I never saw her wearing them; I did not know them by sight; the defendant told me they were hers—I think it was the end November or beginning of December—I think it was the same day that had seen the remains of Miss Hacker in the cellar; it was in the outer cells that I saw the remains—I had been told at first that the watch had been bought.

SELINA KNIGHT . I am servant to Mrs. Clarke in Gower Street—I was a one time housemaid in the service of Mrs. Pearce, No. 2, Torrirgton Square—I entered that service in May, 1875, and quitted it in January, 1876—Hannah Dobbs was cook in the service, and Clara Green was nurse—I know the defendant—I saw him in Torrington Square for the first time; we wen cleaning the dining-room windows; Dobbs was helping me outside, ant I was inside, and Green was in the room—it was in September or October; I should rather say it was in September, 1875—he asked if we wanted any help; I said "Yes"—he stood talking for a little while; I should think for 10 minutes or a quarter of an hour, and then went away; in made an appointment to come the same evening, and he did come to the area, and whistled down the area; that was about 7 o'clock—I went up the area steps, and answered him; he asked where my fellow-servant was whom he had seen in the morning, that was Hannah Dobbs; she came up the area steps, I went down, and left them together; I could not say how long they remained there, because I had to do my duty upstairs; later on that night I and Dobbs and Green dressed ourselves to go out; Dobbs had made an appointment to meet the defendant at 11 o'clock; it was not quite time to go out, and we laid down on the bed and fell asleep—we were awoke by two policemen coming into the room—Dobbs had left the area gate un-fastened, and the area door, and the bedroom door was on the jar, and they entered the room—we then came out of the bedroom into the kitchen, and made them some coffee, cut some bread-and-butter, and gave to the police-men—after they left we turned off the gas, fastened the area gate and door and went to bed—the defendant came again the next night; he whistled down the area; I went up to him, and Dobbs came up afterwards—I went down into the kitchen again, leaving them in the kitchen together—when Hannah came down into the kitchen she told me something—she went

out that night, as near as I can say about 11 o'clock, and returned at about 2.30 in the morning—I and Green were then in the kitchen; we had not gone to bed, because she had locked our bedroom door, and taken the key away with her—the family went away on the Sunday; Mrs. Pearce went away on the Saturday—Mr. Pearce slept at home on the Sunday night; he went away for the day on the Sunday—Mrs. Pearce returned on the Tuesday; Mr. Pearce on the Sunday night between 10 and 11 o'clock, I think—I saw the defendant on that Sunday, between 3 and 4 o'clock in the afternoon—he was outside the house by the area gate—Dobbs was in the dining-room; she went down into the kitchen, up the area steps, and let him in; he came into the kitchen; Green, myself, and Dobbs were there—Clara Green and I went out in the evening as near 7 o'clock as I can say; the defendant was in the kitchen up to that time—when Green and I went out we left the defendant and Dobbs together in the kitchen—after we had put on our bonnets and shawls in the bedroom we went out at the front door—I returned, and found Green and Dobbs there; I did not return with Green—I saw the defendant again in the following week: I think on the Tuesday, down in the kitchen with Green and Dobbs; he did not stay very long—I could not say for certain how many times altogether I saw him at Torrington Square; it was more than six times anyhow—I conversed with him on several occasions; I have seen him on several occasions during this inquiry; his beard was very much longer then than it is now—when I left Mrs. Pearce's service I went to live at Mrs. Cripps's, 20, Guilford Street, about a fortnight after—I was out of a situation about a fortnight—Dobbs came to live at Mrs. Cripps's after I went there; I think I was there about 10 weeks altogether—I have been in service ever since, and am so now.

Cross-examined. It was in 1875 that I saw the defendant in Torrington Square—I have not seen him since then until the proceedings at the police-court this year—I think I saw him more than six times—I swear I saw him six—I won't swear that I saw him more than six—this is accurate: "I think I saw him more than three or four times—I would not say that I had seen him more than six—to the best of my knowledge he is the man—I don't think I will go beyond that"—I said I would swear to the best of my belief; it was at No. 4, Euston Square, that I saw him in the present year—I was taken to identify him by Mr. Moore and Mr. O'Connell, two gentlemen connected with the Central News—I met them at a public-house—I had never seen Dobbs for three years and a half, from the end of March or beginning of April, 1876, till September 1879—she had been home to my mother's, and she remembered my mother's address, and she gave them ray mother's address, and they found me out—they made an appointment with me to see me at the public-house, and it was arranged that I was to go to 4, Euston Square, for the purpose of seeing Mr. Bastendorff—I had seen Peter Bastendorff before I went to the public-house—I am not quite sure whether it was once or twice, but not more than twice, he was at the public-house when I went there—it was not through him that the arrangement was made for me to go to the public-house; it was with Mr. Moore I was to meet them, and Peter and Mr. Birley—it was not at Mrs. Cripps's that they came to me, but where am living now; that was where I saw Peter—he came there one night with Mr. O'Connell, but I can't remember whether Peter was present when the arrangement was made—I did not expect to see him at the public-house

—he was there, and Mr. Birley and Mr. Moore, Mr. O'Connell and Hannah Dobbs—I got there between two and three in the afternoon—I was not there more than ten minutes—it was arranged that they should go and knock at Mr. Bastendorffs door, and have him out at the door and talk to him, and that while they wore talking I should go up to him and ask him a question—they went and knocked at the door, and Mr. Basten-dorff came out—I could not say how far the public-house was from Elision Square, but I should think about ten minutes' walk—when I got there I found them talking to Mr. Bastendorff at the door—Mr. Moore and Mr. O'Connell went first—Peter left because he had some business to attend to—I heard him say so, and Dobbs went away with Mr. Birley—when I found the two talking to Mr. Bastendorff, I went up the steps and spoke to him, as had been arranged—I knew whose house I was going to, and who it was I was going to speak to—I asked him to direct me to the Caledonian Road—he said "Straight down the Euston Road"—I then went on, leaving the others still speaking to him—I saw no more of him until I saw him at the police court—I said, to the best of my belief, he was the man—I swear, to the best of my belief, he is the man—my last place before I went to Torrington Square was at Kensington—I had lived in North Audley Street, and I was with the same ladies at Kensington—when I was in North Audley Street I formed the acquaintance of Richard Henry Jones—he and his mother lived in Goodge Street—I visited there sometimes—Hannah Dobbs went there with me once, and Clara Green also—there was a child there, but the child was not in the room where we were—I went to see my friends Mr. and Mrs. Jones—I did not go to see the child—I did see the child—Dobbs did not know there was a child there nor Clara Green—Mr. Jones came and visited me in North Audley Street, and came to see me in the evening; he stayed there during the evening, but not in the night—he has not spent the night in that house in North Audley street—he has spent the whole night with me at North Audley Street—I was living there in the year 1872 or 1878—I had not to shut him up in the coal cellar on one occasion, or in the area—his visits resulted in my visit to Queen Charlotte's Hospital—the child spoken of was born there—Mrs. Jones took charge of that child—it was at her house that I used to visit, where the child was—I will swear that I never divulged to any one person that I had a child there—Dobbs and Green did not know it—that was not the only child—I had two altogether, not both by Mr. Jones; his was the first—the last was born three years last October, since I left Mrs. Pearce—Mrs. Pearce had three children—when I was living there the girl was thirteen, Harry was six, and little Willy was two—it was in the month of September that Mrs. Pearce was out of town on the Sunday; that is as near as I can say; I can give no date; little Willy, the youngest, was not out of town; I think the other two were at school—I think Mrs. Pearce went down to see her mother; she had a telegram about her mother's illness—I don't know the place she went to—little Willy was at home; the other children were not in the house—they did not go with Mrs. Pearce—I could not say for certain where they were, but I think they were at school—I can't remember where—Mr. Pearce went away on the Sunday morning and came back on the Sunday night—it was part of my duty to clean the windows at Torrington Square—I had not expressly stipulated that I should not clean the windows there;

it was my duty to do so; we never had anybody to clean them—I think I left Mrs. Pearce on 24th January, 1876; no, it was the day before Christinas Day, 1875, that I gave notice to leave, at a month's warning—Hannah Bobbe had left about two months before me—there was a dispute about a Sovereign before she left; Mrs. Pearce had given me a sovereign to purchase Kome butter—she gave it me between the lights in the dining-room—I took Bt down into the kitchen and put it on the table, and asked Dobbs to give it to Green when she came in to get the butter; I did not put it into her hand—afterwards, when the butter was bought, change was brought by Green for a shilling, and not for a sovereign—it was not in consequence of that dispute that Dobbs left—she had given a month's warning before that—after leaving Mrs. Pearce I went to Mrs. Cripps—not directly; I was out of a situation for a fortnight—I went to my sister's—it was in 1874 that I was in Queen Charlotte's Hospital—the second child was born in Endell Street, Long Acre, last October three years—before then I had been living in Ampthill Square, Hampstead Road—I was about ten weeks at Mrs. Eripps's—Hannah Dobbs came there because they wanted a cook, and I m new that she was leaving her situation in the Euston Road, and I asked her to come there—I had not kept up ray acquaintance with her—when I meat to answer an advertisement at 20, Guilford Street, it was for a cook and housemaid, and I spoke to Dobbs, who I knew was going to leave Mrs. Wallis—I saw her at Mrs. Wallis's, and when I heard that a cook was wanted, I went to her, and in consequence of that she came to Mrs. Cripps's—she left Mrs. Cripps's before me and went to lodge at a Mrs. Northcott's—I saw her there—I never saw her after that until the occasion when I law her at the public-house—I had not seen the pamphlet before I went to the public-house—I don't think I did—this is accurate: "Mr. O'Oonnell and Mr. Moore went with me to 4, Euston Square, I had before this seen the pamphlet and read it nearly all"—I had not read it through—I was not sure about having seen it—I had seen it—it is true that I nearly read it through, and having seen it and read it I went to identify the defendant.

Re-examined. I have had the misfortune to have two illegitimate children—I am dependent on my character for getting a place as a servant—I have tried as far as I could to conceal the fact—Jones is the father of ay child—I never told anybody that he had slept with me a night at North Audley Street—I had never told Dobbs or Green that bad had an illegitimate child—I have said "I heard him (the defenfont) speak—to the best of my belief he is the man"—I said I would swear to the best of my belief he is the man—I heard him speak on the steps at Euston Square, and I had heard him speak in 1875 on more than one occasion in Torrington Square.

By MR. POWELL. I never visited Hannah Dobbs at Euston Square in he summer of 1877—I never saw her for three years and a half.

By the COURT. The Sunday that I saw the defendant in Torrington square was the first Sunday after the policeman came and woke us in the room—we were cleaning the dining-room windows when we first saw him—I heard him speak then, and also the same evening when he asked for my fellow-servant; the next time was on the following night when I went up to answer the whistle—on the following Sunday he came from 3 to 4 in the afternoon—I should think he was there for about three hours that afternoon, we were talking together—during that time I went up and down

stairs and in the kitchen the whole of the time—the children slept in Mrs. Pearce's bedroom—we had little Willy downstairs with us sometimes, bat seldom—I have no recollection as to where the two elder children were that Sunday; they were not at home—we bad left little Willy up when we went out, in Hannah Dobbs's care—he was two years old.

CLARA GREEN . I am a domestic servant living with my friends at 18, Abbey Lane, Stratford—I am not in service there—in 1875 I was in the service of Mrs. Pearce, of 42, Torrington Square—Selina Knight and Hannah Dobbs were my fellow-servants—I know the defendant; I remember him coming there one morning; I was in the dining-room, Selina Knight was in the room, and Hannah Dobbs was sitting outside the windows; the defendant was standing outside talking to her—I don't remember whether I saw him again that night—I remember Dobbs going up the area step about 7 o'clock in the evening—Knight, Dobbs, and I dressed ourselves that night to go out—I don't remember the time, but Hannah was to meet the defendant—at 11 o'clock we went and laid down and fell asleep, and the two policemen came in, and there was some coffee made and given to them—they stayed there about 20 minutes, I believe half an hour—on the following Sunday afternoon I saw the defendant downstairs in the kitchen about 3.30—I believe my mistress was out of town at that time—Knight and Dobbs were in the kitchen—I went out between 6 and 7 o'clock; I would rather say it was 7 o'clock—the defendant was there all that time—I returned at 9 30; he was not there then—I saw him again on another occasion one evening about 10 o'clock; I cannot say how long it was afterwards; it might be two or three nights afterwards, I believe it was; he remained about an hour on that occasion—I see that his beard is mush shorter now than it was then—I saw him at Bow Streeet on 31st October this year, and looked at him, and I believed him to be the same man that I saw in Torrington Square—I say he is the man; I say so positively.

Cross-examined. I had not seen him since the time in Torrington Square till the 31st October last—I did not know him at that time—I had not seen him before, I did not take much notice of him the first time—the first time I saw the man was when he came down into the kitchen a night or two after the window cleaning—I was in and out of the kitchen—I don't remember whether I saw him after that Sunday night or not—I saw him twice come into the house; first on the Sunday afternoon and then a night or two after the Sunday—I did not say at the police-court "I don't remember whether I saw him after that Sunday or not"—I said "A night or two afterwards he came into the house, but I don't remember whether I saw him after that or not"—my depositions was taken down, read over, and I signed it—I don't remember saying that; I might have said it, but it was a mistake—I believe it was in September when the window-cleaning was—Mr. and Mrs. Pearce and family were out of town—they did not go out of town together; Mrs. Pearce went first, and Mr. Pearce afterwards—there was only the little boy at home, the others had gone away with Mrs. Pearce—I believe so, I won't be positive—they were away with Mrs. Pearce; they were not at school then; they used to go to school; they went to school daily, not on Sundays; they were not at school that day—I left Mrs. Pearce at the end of November, 1875; Hannah Dobts left a month before me—the next time I saw her was at Bow Street; at Mr. Armstrong's office was the first time I saw her since I left Mrs.

Pearce, that was before I went to Bow Street—I was ordered to go to Mr. Armstrong's office by a subpoena I had; Mr. Birley served me with it—I have seen Peter Bastendorff; I saw him at Bow Street; that was the frit time I saw him; that was after I had been to Mr. Armstrong's office, on the same morning that I came to Bow Street—I went with the other witnesses; I went there there to see Bastendorff I believe; to see whether I could identify him, to see whether he was the same man I had seen in the kitchen at Torrington Square—I had not been told that he was the man—I was told that he was the man that was in Torrington Square—I hare a pamphlet; I bought it on the day that I came to Bow Street, that was after Mr. Birley had served me with a subpoena—when I went to Bow Street, I went and looked at the defendant—I don't know whether he saw me; he was quite close against me; he might have seen me—this is true: "The defendant took no notice of me when I looked at him, he could see I was looking at him. I noticed no change in his countenance when I looked"—he was allowed a seat in the Court, and I went and sat beside him—I was not there above 10 minutes—I did not notice any change in his countenance; he took no notice of me; his is rather a peculiar face; I should net want to see a man's face more than once to swear to him—I believe I could swear to the policemen if I saw them—I said at Bow Street "I don't remember the policemen, "but that was a mistake—this is accurate: "I had a good opportunity of seeing him in the kitchen; his beard is different; I noticed nothing particular about his voice"—I did not hear much of his voice then; he was a foreigner, I believe; it is true that I noticed nothing particular about his voice.

Re-examined. As far as I know I have never seen those policemen since—I did not hear the defendant speak at all at Bow Street—I have never heard him speak since he was in Torrington Square—I saw him on the Sunday afternoon for some hours, and after that, on another occasion, for about an hour—I was told that the man who was in custody was the man that was in Torrington Square—I don't remember where it was that I was told that—when I got in Court I said I believed him to be the man that I saw in Torrington Square—he was sitting on a seat.

By the COURT. I said he had rather a peculiar face, because he had got rather small eyes—I believed him to be a foreigner when he was in Torrington Square; I was told so by my fellow-servant—I did not particularly take any notice of him—he did not have anything to say to me—he never had any conversation with me whatever.

JOHN ADOLPHUS DICKE . I am a cabinet maker, at 14, Charlton Street, Euston Road—I know the defendant; I think it might have been in 1874 that I first knew him, it might have been before; I Knew him in 1875, I am sure of that—I don't see any difference in his general appearance now; he might have his beard a little shorter—he has had a long beard—I know once he had to cut it out in the centre, what you would call a concave.

Cross-examined. I can't remember whether his beard was cut at all in 1875—I have always known him with a fine beard, what I call a full beard; it has not always been the same as it is now—I can't say whether it was before 1875 that he had a long beard—I never put anything of that kind down or take any particular notice unless—there is anything that I should take particular notice of—I can't really say when it was that he had a longer beard—he is a friend of mine, so far, I have seen him frequently—he sometimes came to my house.

ALBERT DAW KERRELL . I am a wholesale cabinet maker of 30, Argyle Square—the defendant was once my partner from February to November, 1875; I think I saw him every day during that time, barring Sundays—his beard then was very much longer than it is now, it nearly covered his shirt front.

Cross-examined. I first knew him about May or June, 1874; he then had a beard about the same length as when I was in partnership with him—he wore it long the whole time I was in partnership with him——our partnership ceased in November, 1875—I remember meeting him one night in Euston Square with Mr. Dicke some 18 months or two years after the dissolution—I don't know that it was in 1875 that his beard was cut—I should think it is more than probable that I saw him in the earlier part of 1877, but I cannot call to mind any date—I would not swear whether it was 1876 or 1877—I was about to say that I met him one evening with Mr. Dicke in the summer either of 1876 or 1877, and then I noticed that he had shortened his beard—it might have been in 1878, I could not tell.

Re-examined. During the whole of 1875, when he was my partner, he certainly had a much longer beard, and I may go a little further than that—I remember meeting him at Messrs. Hewitt's, in Baker Street, in the early part of 1877, and then I noticed that he had altered his beard by cutting a little portion off the chin, and wearing what are usually called Piccadilly weepers.

HENRY BUSH . I live at 25, Drummond Street, Euston Square—I was the beadle and gardener of Torrington Square from the month of January, 1875, till September, 1878—I know the defendant; I have seen him in Torrington Square on five or six different occasions—I can't remember the date when I first saw him, but it was the latter end of September or the beginning of October, 1875—he was only walking about, up and down, that an all—I suppose I saw him five or six times—that was not shortly after I saw had seen him the first time; it might have been for two or three nights after he was in Torrington Square walking up and down and across the top of the square, close to the Apostolic Church; he was only walking about by the church.

Cross-examined. In that year I lived in Seven Sisters Road, Holloway—my hours of duty in the square was at all times; I don't mean from in the morning until the next morning, 8 or 9 or 10—my regular hours were from 5.45 until 5; then I had to look after the square after tea until 9 or 10—I sometimes went at 6 in the morning, sometimes 7, sometimes 8; I had no set time, that I could please myself about—I did not get tired of the square and leave it as soon as I could—my usual time of leaving was 9 or 10—I was in the habit of staying there until 9 or 10 at night from 6 or 7 in the morning—I mean to swear that—I swear I did so in September and October, 1875, on several occasions—my usual hour for leaving in September and October, 1875, was about 4 or 4.30—I was there till 10 or 11 at night because my duty was this: if there were any organs or bands or anything like that playing in the square in the evening I was supposed to remove them up to a certain time—when I left at 4 I used to go to a coffee-shop and have my tea and go back again—I used not to be on duty every night up to 10 or 11—I dare say I was for 14 or 15 nights in the two months, the latter end of September and October—I did not request that my name might not be given to the attorney for the defence—I might have suggested it; I did—I did not want to be in it at all—I did not ask to come—I didn't want

my name shoved all over the papers—I was obliged to be mixed up in it when I was subpœnaed here—a Mr. Lloyd called at my bouse—I don't know who he is; he is a gentleman; I can't say what else—I suppose be if a detective—I didn't know it; I know it now—I did not know him before he came to me last Friday night fortnight—I was not at the police court; it was after the proceedings at the police-court that they found me out—I have seen Mr. Armstrong; I saw him on Monday week—I can't say how the detective found me out—I am a gardener now—I left Torrington Square I because I thought I could better myself—I don't say that I have; I don't say that I have worsed myself; I have at present on account of the weather and one tiling or another—I am a frozen-out gardener—I have employment if I could get to work, jobbing—I have been jobbing ever since I left the square—I left a regular situation in the square to go jobbing—at the time I saw this person walking about I did not know who he was—I don't know that it is an unusual thing to see a person walking up and down a square but when you take a certain distance—my attention was not called to the person between the time when I saw him in the square and the time when the detective called upon me.

Re-examined. The defendant is the man that I saw at the end of 1875 in the square on this occasion.

ANN CARPENTER . My husband keeps the Bee Hive at Reigate—in August, 18.77, he kept the Bed Lion, Keel hill—J know Hannah Dobbs by I sight, and remember her coming to the Bed Lion with the prisoner about 8 o'clock on a Saturday night at the beginning of August, 1877—I did not know his name then—I took a parcel and a bag up to the bedroom for them; they occupied the same room—before going upstairs they sat a short I time in the smoking-room—I saw them go out about 10 o'clock on the Sunday morning—the charwoman let them out, and when they returned at night they went into the smoking-room—they went to bed between 9 and 10 o'clock, and left about 10 on Monday morning—the prisoner paid I me for the room—on 15th or 16th October this year, between 5 and 6 p.m., I the defendant came down to the Bee Hive, Reigate, with that gentleman, I I believe (Mr. Frederick Jones)—I was up in the top room, what I call my parlour—I had no light there—the prisoner asked if I had lived at the Bed Lion, Redhiil—I said "Yes"—he said "Did you have lodgers?"—I said "Yes"—he asked if I had had some one down from London about some lodgers at the Lion—I said "Tea"—he said "Who?"—I said "Mr. Armstrong"—Mr. Jones put the questions in the prisoner's presence—he said could I remember the lodgers—I said "Yes"—he said "Why?"—I said "Because they were an uncommon couple, a tall lady and a short gentleman"—Mr. Jones said "Was he as tall as me?"—I said "I don't know, unless you stand up"—he stood up, and I said "Oh dear no, not near so tall, "and then he asked the prisoner to stand up, and I said "He was just about your height, and not at all unlike you"—Mr. Jones said "This is Mr. Bastendorff; it was not him, it was his brother"—I said "That tells me that brothers are alike."

Cross-examined. I had seen Mr. Armstrong before that, and knew from him that proceedings were being taken at Bow Street; bat I do not know when they commenced—we made up four beds at Redhill, and they were frequently occupied—I did not keep a servant, but Mrs. Popley was the charwoman—I have not seen her since the visit of these gentle-men—she was there on the day they came—I go into the smoking-room

when I like, but I am in the bar generally—I said at the police-court They sat a short time in the smoking room, and then went to bed"—Mrs. Popley let them out on Sunday morning, but I saw them—the only refreshment they had on Saturday night was ale and biscuits—they had nothing on Sunday—I left Redhill on 29th September—Keigate is two miles from Redhill—there are several inhabitants at Redhill; it is not a village—I had not seen Hannah Dobbs before she came with the short gentleman—I do not know that she had been living for 16 months at Red-hill—the next time I saw her was the beginning of October, when Mr. Moore came with her, Mr. Armstrong came next, and Moore with him—they did not stay long—they paid for bread and cheese which they had, and gave me a suspener—they did not buy anything of me—they did Dot give me an order for sucking pigs—if Armstrong has said that he gave an order for sucking pigs, or bought some of me, that is not true—I had no pigs, nor did he or Moore ask me to get any—Mr. Burley has not been to me. nor any gentleman from whom I received an order for pigs—Jones ana Bastendorff may have stayed 20 minutes—Armstrong and Moore said I should have some one down; and when Mr. Jones and Bastendorff came, I knew they came about the same business—I saw in the suspene that Armstrong and Moore were mixed up in Bastendorff's matter—I read nothing of it in the newspapers—when Bastendorff stood up I said that he was not unlike the man—I did not say "Not unlike you, but his beard was lighter"—I said "longer"—he had a long and light beard—when he stood up I recognised him as the man who came with Hannah Dobbs, bat before he stood up I was not thinking of such a thing—I expected some-body from Mr. Armstrong, but not on the other side—it is true that, till he stood up, I did not recognise him as the man who came to the house, although I had been talking to him—I said before the Magistrate "The man had high shoulders and a long beard, a light beard"—Mrs. Popley was there—she said that she did not believe she could recognise them, bat she remembered letting them out—my husband was not at that time on the Bank Holiday, I am sure of that—he was there when Mr. Bastes dorff came down—he was not there on the day Hannah Dobbs and Mr. Bastendorff came together, neither on the Saturday, Sunday, or Monday—he did not see them; he was at Hastings—he was there when Mr. Arm-strong was there—if any order was given to him for pigs, he did not tell me.

Re-examined. He is a miller and sometimes works elsewhere—he goes where he is wanted, he is not generally at home—the first I have heard about a sucking pig was from Mr. Powell to-day—we had a good many lodgers at the Red Lion, generally men; we seldom had couples there.

HANNAH DOBBS (Re-examined by the COURT). I wrote the MS. of the pamphlet, but have not seen it since, I gave it up to the gentleman—there is not so much in the pamphlet as I wrote down, but I did not see anything struck out by anybody—I gave some to Mr. Moore and some to Mr. Birley—I told the defendant I was with child, and the fact was so—he was the father of it—he gave me something to take and I had a miscarriage—I know of a Frenchwoman and two children of Mr. Bastendorffs.

The following witnesses were called for the defence:

ELLEN PEARCE . I am the wife of Mr. Percy Pearce, of 42, Torrington Square; we wore living there in 1875; at that time Hannah Dobbs, Selina

Knight, and Clam Green, were the three servants living with us—I had three children—the eldest was a daughter 12 years old, the next, Harry, a boy of 7, and the third, Willie, of 15 months—Clara Green was the nurse-maid, and had charge of the children—the two younger children slept in my bedroom, and my daughter in a separate room—Hannah Dobbs came into the service, as near as I can tell, about the end of January or beginning of February, 1875; she came to me during Lent—I used to attend the week-day services during Lent, and when Hannah Dobbs first came she went with me to the evening Lent services—Selina Knight entered the service in May—a man was engaged to clean the windows, Selina Knight distinctly stated when slie took the situation that she would not clean windows, and I told her we had a man to do so—during the year 1875 I only went out of town once, that was in October; I went to my mother's in Norfolk—I received a telegram of her illness and I went and took my youngest child with me, my baby—the little boy and girl were left at home, and my husband was also at home—I went on the Thursday and returned on the following Monday evening—I did not see my husband while I was away, he was at home all the time; he did not come down to me—the order was to have the area gate locked at night, and it was done so to the best of my knowledge at all times, and the key was kept in the dining-room on the mantelshelf at night—during the day it was kept hanging on a nail in the kitchen—it was brought up at dark every evening to be put on the mantelshelf—I gave Dobbs notice to leave.

Cross-examined. The kitchen was the place for the key during the day-time, I could not say that it was always hanging there; I was not there every minute, but in my presence it was there—they always brought it up at night; I am prepared to say that; a key waa brought to me, I did not go to try it—I can't positively say it was the area key, there were five lodger boarders in the house when I went to my mother's—it was not the business of the servants to clean the windows, if they did it it waa not in my presence; I never saw them do it, that is all I can say; whether they were cleaned in my absence I don't know—before Selina Knight accepted my service she said it was not usual to clean windows, and I said she would not have to do it—she asked had she to clean the windows, and I said no, it was always my custom to have ami to clean them—I was called as a witness at the police-court—I have not been called as a witness in this case before to-day.

Re-examined. I usually sit in the dining-room in the daytime, that over looks the area and the gate, and I could distinctly see into the square and see persons passing along—I did not not at any time take up the key to see that it was right, I believed that it was; I never suspected that my servants were passing a false key upon me.

By the COURT. I had only those three servants in the house; they occupied one bedroom, in the basement—I always went down stairs in the morning, and in the evening also to draw my supper beer about 9.0—I went to live in Torrington (Square in September, 1874—something had occurred which made me give the order about the area key—I had me old lady living with me in 1875 who was very particular about it; he was there until I left in 1877—my husband is a medical man.

MARGAKET HODSON (This witness was blind). I am a widow—my husband was paymaster of the 15th Regiment of Foot—in 1877., hearing

that Mr. Bastendorff, of 4, Euston Square, was in want of assistance from a servant, I went there on Friday morning, 4th August—I recollect the 6th) being Monday, and it was Bank Holiday—Hannah Dobbs was not there went I went; she had gone—there was a charwoman, Mrs. Smith; I had my sight at that time—I stayed there till the 4th September—I saw Mr. Bastendorff on the Friday that I went there; he was at 4, Euston Square—I remember the next day, Saturday; he was then all day, and night too—he carried on his business there; he had a workshop at the back—Mrs. Bastendorff was there that Saturday, and in the evening Mrs. Pearce, Mrs. Bastendorffs mother, came—Mr. Bastendorff was there at dinner-time on that Saturday; we generally used to hare dinner at 1.0, 1.0 to 1.30—I saw him after dinner—the last time I saw him on that Saturday was between 11.0 and 12.0, when I went to bed; I saw Mr. and Mrs. Bastendorff, and they wished me good night—they were in the back parlour, going to bed; they slept there—I remember the Sunday morning, the next day, the 5th—Mr. Bastendorff was then all day; I saw him all day—the children were at home at that time; the eldest daughter was ill with the measles, and so was Peter, the eldest little boy—I saw Mr. Bastendorff all day long on the Sunday—he was in the house; I don't remember him going out at all—Mrs. Pearce and her daughter Margaret were there at supper-time, and they left the house about 11.0, or between 10.0 and 11.0, and about half an hour after that I wished Mr. Bastendorff good night and went to bed, and left him in the dining-room—on the Monday morning, the 6th, I first saw Mis. Bastendorff about 7.30—I went into her bedroom to take her a cup of tea; that was my custom every morning during the time I was there—Mr. Bastendorff was not there—a conversation took place between ml and Mrs. Bastendorff—I next saw Mr. Bastendorff in the evening, coming in the hall, between 7.0 and 8.0, and of course he had some tea; then I did not see him till bedtime—I was the only servant at that tune—I slept in the third floor front room, a small room—the first time that I ever saw Hannah Dobbs was when I went to engage with Mrs. Bastes dorff, that was before the 3rd August; the third week in August she came back—I cannot recollect the day—she did not come back into the service that day—I never knew of her or anybody being let into the house at night to sleep during the months I was there—Mr. Bastendorff remained at home throughout that month; he was not away from home in the week days at all—the next Sunday after the Bank Holiday he was away shooting; he left on Saturday evening I am almost sure, and he returned on the Monday morning—Mrs. Bastendorff went out of town twice during that month, but not that Sunday—it was after that I think; it was the following Sunday she went away, but she went to Mr. Bastendorff—I could not say the date; it was the Sunday after the Sunday I have spoken of—no one went with her; she went to meet Mr. Bastendorff at Erith—that was what she told me—he had left on the Saturday night; she went at 10.0 in the morning—the last Sunday that I wtf there Mr. Bastendorff went to Erith, and Mrs. Bastendorff went and met him; that was not the Sunday I have been speaking of, it was the last Sunday I was there—I left exactly at the month; I can't say to the day.

Cross-examined. I went there on 3rd August, Friday, and I remained one month—I was examined as a witness when Hannah Dobbs was tried for murder—I swore then "In the middle of August, 1877, I went as

servant to Mrs. Bastendorff. and left in the middle of September"—I said that was as near as I could remember—when Inspector Hogan came to me my son had a memorandum that it was something to that; but after that I found a letter that I received from Birchington-on-Sea, and it was different—it was the 3rd; it was my mistake—I must have made a made a mistake; but Inspector Hogan told me it was near enough if I could say that I remembered about the Bank Holiday then—but you must remember, my sight being bad my memory is bad as well, and I have to think a great deal before I can remember things air. Bastendorff went away on the Saturday afternoon after the work was over, about 5.0 I should think, and he did not return till the Monday morning—he went shooting; he did not tell me so, but he brought a rabbit early on the Monday morning.

Re-examined. on Hannah Dobbs's trial I was asked when I went into Mr. Bastendorffs service, and I said the middle of August, because I had a memorandum to that effect—my son had written that memorandum—he generally puts down little things in his pocket-book, and he happened to have this memorandum when Inspector Hogan came to me, and hie looked in the book and said it was the middle of August, and at the time I was in Court I believed it was the middle of August, otherwise I would not have taken my oath—I know now that it was the 3rd August, because I found a letter sent to me from Birchington-on-Sea, and it was dated that day, the 4th; it was a private affair, which I cannot explain—I received that letter on the second day, on the Saturday when I went to Mr. Bastendorffs, the second day I was there—I saw that-letter after I had given my evidence on Hannah Dobbs's trial, and that brought to my recollection that it was not the middle of August, but on the 2nd or 3rd—I was only at Mr. Bastendorffs a month; I have never been in any other employment—I have had nothing to do with them since that month—the first Sunday I was there he never went out; he was at home—it was after the second Sunday I was there that he brought back the rabbit.

ELIZABETH PEARCE . I am the mother of Mrs. Bastendorff—I recollect being at the house of Mr. Bastendorff at the early part of August, 1877—I recollect Hannah Dobbs leaving on 2nd August—I was there the Saturday after—I saw Mr. Bastendorff there that day; I was there until about 10.30; I saw him there until I left—I could not say he was there until I left, but I saw him during the evening—I was there on Sunday, 5th August; the children were at home ill with measles—I saw Mr. Bastepdorff on thai Sunday at 4, Euston Square; I went there in the evening, some time after tea—I generally stayed till about 10.30 or 11; I could not say exactly what time I left—I saw Mr. Bastendorff there during that evening with Mrs. Bastendorff—I recollect Mrs. Hodson; I could not say when she came; I saw her there on these occasions, the first Sunday and the first Saturday in August.

Cross-examined. This is the first time I have given my evidence—I was frequently in the habit of going to see my daughter—I frequently went on Saturdays and Sundays; I think I can say I have always been there on Saturdays and Sundays since they have been married—I was attending to the children at that time; they had measles—I mostly go there, or my daughter comes to me, one or the other; we have always visited each other—Thursday, the 2nd August, was the eldest boy's birthday, and on that

Thursday I went to fetch a person, as Hannah had left, to come and work for Mrs. Bastendorff; that was Mrs. Smith—she is here, and she came on Friday morning.

By MR. POWELL. During the time I was there I never saw a French-woman or any other woman at the house claiming to have a child by Mr. Bastendorff—I never heard of anything of the kind till to-day.

JOHN HACKFORD . I live at 170, Weedington Street, Kentish Town, and am a gilder—I remember the Bank Holiday in August, 1877—I went fishing with Mr. Bastendorff—on the Saturday before we made up a party to go fishing; it was at Johnson's public-house, at the corner of Seymour Koad—the party was fornled of Mr. Anthony Bastendorff and myself, and when we met on the Monday Mr. Sewerin Bastendorff and his three brothers came with him—Mr. Bastendorff was at the pubiic-house on the Saturday, but he did not make up the party with us—it was in the afternoon; I could not say the time; the arrangement was made for the Monday morning—we met at 5.30; I ought to have been there earlier—we went to Wood Green and fished—there was the defendant, Mr. Anthony Bastendorff, Mr. Peter Bastendorff, and Joseph Bastendorff, four of them, and myself—I fished there till it was nearly dusk—Mr. Bastendorff and his brothers left me about 4 in the afternoon—I was first in the defendant's company that morning about 6, and he was there up to about 4 in the afternoon.

Cross-examined. I have fished a good deal in my time; I very often go fishing for my holiday; I don't shoot—I was not called as a witness before the Magistrate—I have never given my evidence before to-day; I gave it before Mr. Bastendorffs solicitor—we did not have any sport at the fishing; we only caught one fish.

MARY ANN SMITH . I am a charwoman, and live at 9, Beal's Place, St. Pancras—in 1877 I was for a time employed at Mr. Bastondorffs, 4, Euston Square—it was on 3rd August—I did not see Hannah Dobbs then; I saw her afterwards—she was not there on the 3rd—Mrs. Hodson came that day about 11 in the morning.

Cross-examined. I have not been examined as a witness in this matter before to-day—I was told to come here By Mr. and Mrs. Bastendorff—I came here to speak the truth—I did not know what I was coming to say, only what you asked me—I did not know that I was going to be asked whether it was the 3rd of August that Mrs. Hodson came, but I know it was on that day—of course I knew I was coming here to prove that—I did not know for what purpose I was coming; I knew that I was coming to say that I worked there on 3rd August—I did not give my evidence to any solicitor; I saw a gentleman at 4, Euston Square two or three weeks ago—he asked me some questions, and I told him what I knew about the case; I told him about the 3rd of August, because I knew I was there.

Re-examined. That gentleman (Mr. Freston) was the gentleman I saw; I told him it was the 3rd of August, and it is true that it was the 3rd of August; it was on a Friday—I know it perfectly well, because I was robbed that day while I was there, by a person at the house where I was living, 63, Middlesex Street, but the house is pulled down now for the railway.

JOHN RICHARDS . I live at 39, Brook Street, Northumberland Heath, Erith, Kent—I am a master plasterer and builder; I know the defendant; I first knew him Saturday, August 11th, 1877—he came to my house

that day with a German of the name of Krigger that was staying at my house, an invalid, who is now dead—he went hack on the Sunday evening about 9.30—he stayed at my house on the Saturday night—I saw him again on the following Saturday, the 18th August, and he brought his eldest girl with him, Christina, I believe, and his wife came on the Sunday, and brought the eldest boy, Peter—they left on the Tuesday morning following to catch the 10 o'clock train, I think—I saw the defendant again in August, not the following Saturday, but the following Saturday; he missed one Saturday—no, he was there all through August; he was there every Saturday and Sunday through August and September, with the exception of 22nd September, and again he was there on 14th october.

Cross-examined. I was examined on the trial of Hannah Dobbs—I can't say whether I then swore that it was in September that he came; it was in August; his wife might have come in September—I don't say she did not—I will swear now that she was there on 22nd August; the 18th rather, on the Sunday the 19th it was when she came—she came on the Sunday, Mr. Bastendorff came on the Saturday—I don't know that she came in September; I can swear that she came on that day—I don't know that I swore at tho trial of Hannah Dobbs "his wife came with him on the Sunday in the first week in September, 1877"—I won't swear I did not, but I will swear that Mr. Bastendorff was at my house the Saturday after 11th August, and with the exception of 22nd September he was there every Saturday until 14th October, and he was there that Sunday—I never knew him before the 11th August, 1877, and from that time he was at my place every Saturday and Sunday through August, September, and October—I can tell you two reasons I have for fixing on 11th August; Mr. Krigger, the invalid that was staying at my house, could not come on Bank Holiday; he was going to Beaufeast with his men—I belong to a benefit society, and it was the anniversary, and we had a feast, the only day me and my wife had been able to get away together, and I remember it very well; Mr. Krigger and Mr. Bastendorff came on the following Saturday, because the appartments were put aside expressly for Mr. Krigger; Mr. Krigger said he could not come on the following Saturday, that he was then going somewhere in the country with some of his men, a shop or something of the sort, so Mr. Bastendorff brought Mrs. Bastendorff down—that is one reason for fixing the 11th; the other reason is, I can remember it remarkably well, he generally came on the Saturday and went away on the Sunday night; he went away on Sunday evening the 12th, and the" next week he went away on the Tuesday.

Re-examined. I have not been accustomed to be pulled about in a Court of Justice, and I don't like it, hut I speak what I know to be correct; the dates I have given to-day are accurate—the 11th August is fixed in my mind by my wife and I intending to have a holiday that had been a long time due—Mr. Krigger had been there ever since May—after the 11th August I saw Mr. Bastendorff on the following Saturday, the 18th, and I saw him every Saturday in August and September but one in September—I am positive of that, and I have proof that I can show; writing and things that he did while he was there—I have a little hill that I paid with some of the money that Mr. Bastendorff paid me on one occasion (producing it); that bill was contracted on 24th August; I made a payment of 1l. that day in rospect of some goods that are mentioned there—Mrs. Bastendorff and him paid us the money that I paid it with—it relates to some furniture that.

was bought on 22nd August, and was delivered on the 24th, Friday—the bill is in the writing of a gentleman named Loveless, who went with my wife to pay the money—the goods were brought home on the 24th, and my wife paid 1l. that same day, and that pound I got from Mr. and Mrs. Bastendorff.

Cross-examined. Mr. Loveless is a rent collector—I had the goods from Mr. Jones on Bexley Heath; if I had had time this morning, I would have got him to give me the original bill—these items were written at different times as far as I know.

By the COURT. I said at Dobbs's trial that the defendant came down in 1877—I don't remember that I said in the beginning of 1877—I said "He has come down on Saturdays and Sundays for two years from this time"—he did not come down till August—I can't say whether I said "He began to do so in June or July 1877, when the fruit was about;" if I did say so it must have been wrong.

J.A. DICES (Recalled and further Cross-examined). I remember the Bank Holiday in 1877—some friends had come to my house that afternoon, which I was not aware of till I came back from the Welsh Harp in the evening—I went to the Welsh Harp with a friend or two on Bank Holiday—I can't exactly remember the time I got back to my house, it might have been 8.30, or 8 or 9 in the evening; I can't say it was not earlier than 8.30, I fancy we left the Welsh Harp about 7 or 6.30, or it might have been 5.30; it was between 5.30 and 7—I am quite sure it was not earlier, because we did not go till the afternoon—I think we went straight home from the Welsh Harp, we might have gone in and had a glass after we left the station—I don't think it would take me an hour to get home; I might have been at home at 6—my friends were there when I arrived—they were Mrs. Hoffman and her children, and the charwoman who was left in the house made them some tea—there was Mr. Hoffman and Mr. Gersthausen and his present wife; they went with me to the Welsh Harp and returned with me—the defendant might have been there, as I have said before, but I am not certain, he might have been there or not, he has been so frequently at my house—I should not swear he had been there, he might as well have been there as not—I never took any notice of it, he has been so frequently—I fancy we had a game of cards; yes, I think we had on that night, not for long.

By MR. WILLIAMS. I can't really say whether he was there that night or no; he might and he might not—he was in the habit of coming to my house pretty frequently, and we have had a friendly game of cards very often.

ANN CARPENTER (Re-examined by the COURT). I have no means of telling the day that Hannah Dobbs and the man came to me—I could not tell you the day of the month, only the day of the week; I am sure it was on Saturday, and I believe it to be the beginning of August; I could not say to a week, but I know it was about two months before I left the business—I kept no book or memorandum of the rooms or beds I let; they pay as they come in and go out—I do not remember anybody who came down that same day, or the day before—my husband was to and fro at his work at Hastings for four years—I have no means of fixing the date nearer. Hannah Dobbs (Re-examined by the Court). In page 5 of the pamphlet it says "I left 4, Euston Square, for a short time on Friday, 2nd August,

1877, as letters still in existence prove"—that refers to letters that I sent to Peter Bastendorff—I think it was on the 2nd August; it was in the beginning—I am sure it was in August, and I think it was the 2nd; it was the Saturday following that Friday that I went to Redhill; that was the only time I went there with the defendant.

PERCY PEARCE . I lived at 42, Torrington Square, and am an assistant to the medical profession; a doctor's assistant—I was living at that address in 1875—I remember my wife going out of town in that year, in October, I think—she took the youngest child with he?—I think she left on the Thursday; I am not quite sure—she returned on the Monday—on the Sunday between that Thursday and Monday I was at home and the other children were at home also—I was at home all that Sunday; that was the only Sunday that my wife was absent.

Cross-examined. I very seldom go out on a Sunday—I am at home part of the day nearly every Sunday, according to what my business duties allow me to perform; I have business duties to perform on Sunday—I was not called as a witness before the Magistrate.

Re-examined. I have a particular reason for remembering this particular Sunday—I was unwell at home all that day.

By the COURT. I do not keep a diary; as near as I can say it was about the second Sunday in October that I was at home; I won't be sure on that point—the two children would be about the house; they were not with me all the time—they were in my bedroom a portion of the time; in and out of my bedroom; that was at the top of the house—when they were not in my bedroom they would be in the dining-room downstairs—I could not specify any particular time of the day when they were downstairs; they were downstairs that day—I was not downstairs to see, but I believe they would be there as long as they were not with me—the second eldest child would go to bed probably about 7 o'clock, and the other probably a little later; I do not remember on that particular occasion—I really can't say what was the usual time; I should think about 8 o'clock; I can't say for certain—I was very seldom in the habit of going down into the kitchen—I did not go down on that Sunday.

WM. ANTHONY FRESTON (Re-examined). I was present when the defendant was committed for trial at Bow Street—I heard Mr. Flowers offer to postpone the committal until after the action was tried—I think Mr. Poland chose to accept the committal at once.

PIERRE GERSTHAUSEN . I am a tailor, and live at 43, Foley Street—in August, 1877, I was living at 4, Gower Place—I remember the Bank Holiday in August, 1877; I could not say what day of the month it was—on that day I went to the Welsh Harp with Mr. Dicke, his wife, and my present wife—we went in the middle of the day, in the afternoon, just after dinner—when we returned we went to Mr. Dicke's in Charlton Street, Edgware Road—I could not exactly say what time we got there; it was towards the evening—we found Mr. Hoffman, his wife, and children there; Mr. Hoffman was known to me—the defendant came in soon after we were there—I could not exactly say the time; it was about 8 or 9 o'clock in the evening; I can't say nearer—he remained there till about 18 o'clock—he left us—it was a very wet night; it rained very fast, and we had to take a cab home—we left together about 12 o'clock—I have known the defendant four or five years as a respectable, moral, truthful man.

Cross-examined. I don't know where I was on the Bank Holiday in June—I cannot remember—I recollect the only Bank Holiday in August because Mr. Hoffman, his wife, and children were at Mr. Dicke's, and I had never met them there before.

JOHN HOFFMAN . I live at 16, Gerard Street, Soho—I am a messenger at the German Embassy—I have been employed there 10 years—I remember the Bank Holiday in August, 1877—I think it was on Monday, but I am not quite certain—I think it was the 6th of August, but I remember the Bank Holiday in August—on that day I went to the bouse of Mr. Dicke, in Charlton Street, with my wife and children—we went there about 7 or 8 in the evening; I don't know the hour exactly—I saw Mr. Gersthausen there—I was there first—Mr. and Mrs. Dicke were out, and Mr. and Mrs. Gersthausen were out—I was told they would come back in a few minutes, and I was waiting for them—I saw the defendant that evening—he came in I should say about 8, and he was with us till closing time, 12 or 12.30—I am quite sure that is the day I am referring to—I have known Mr. Bastendorff about three years—he has always borne the character of a respectable, honest, truthful, decent man.

Cross-examined. I have not thought over where I was on the Bank Holiday in June—I know where I was in August; I have thought over that—it was about 8 in the evening that I saw Mr. Bastendorff at Mr. Dicke's—I can't say exactly how far that is from the Euston Road.

Re-examined. I am quite sure that the occasion I am referring to was on the Bank Holiday in August—I have several reasons for that—my wife and Mrs. Dicke made arrangements to go into the country, and that was the first day my wife and children went to Mr. Dicke's.

The evidence of Henry Bush was, for reasons which MR. WILLIAM said were satisfactory to him, withdrawn from the consideration of the Jury.

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.