Old Bailey Proceedings Online (www.oldbaileyonline.org, version 8.0, 28 September 2022), June 1875, trial of WILLIAM FREDERICK PAGET MATURIN (28) AMBROSE BROWN (25) (t18750605-407).

WILLIAM FREDERICK PAGET MATURIN, AMBROSE BROWN, Theft > stealing from master, 5th June 1875.

407. WILLIAM FREDERICK PAGET MATURIN (28) and AMBROSE BROWN (25) , Stealing on 16th February an order for the payment of 49l. on 18th March an order for 20l., and on 23rd April an order for 44l. 16s., of William Champion Jones and others, the masters of Maturin.

MESSRS. POLAND and BESLEY conducted the Prosecution; MR. MONTAGU

WILLIAMS and MR. AUSTIN METCALFE appeared for Maturin; and MR. METCALFE, Q.C., and MR. STRAIGHT for Brown.

WILLIAM BASE . I am clerk to Mr. Mullens, solicitor to the Bankers' Protection Association—I served a copy of this notice to produce on the prisoners.

JOSEPH CHEW . I am employed by Mr. George Hoar, a fruit merchant and commission agent, at 47, Hart Street, Covent Garden—on Friday 2rd April, early in the morning, I received two country cheques, one from Sheffield, drawn by Richard Rylot, for 18l. 10s., in favour of Mr. George Hoar, on the Sheffield and Hallamshire Banking Company, and the other on the Wolver hampton and Staffordshire Banking Company, in favour of George Hoar, for 44l. 16s., signed Samuel Larkinson—Mr. Hoar endorsed those cheques in my presence—I took them to the Covent Garden branch of the London and County Bank, where Mr. Hoar has an account—I also took this credit slip, parts of which are produced; it has been torn and the fragments are now put together—it is not in my writing—at the bank I saw Mr. South, a clerk—I handed him the two cheques and the credit slip, and he initialled the counterfoil of the credit slip—the credit slip has on it "Sheffield 18l. 10s., Wolhampton 44l. 16s."

WILLIAM SOUTH . I am one of the cashiers at the Covent Garden branch of the London and County Bank—on Friday, 23rd April, soon after 9 o'clock, Joseph Chew brought me this credit slip and these two cheques—he asked me to initial the counterfoil, and in his counterfoil of the paying in slip I have initialled the receipt of those two cheques—having received the cheques it is my duty to place them in a box which is known as the country box—I did that, after pinning them both to the paying in slip—Marturin was employed at the Bank at that time, and it was his duty to take the cheques out of the box from time to time during the day and enter them—the corner of the paying in slip is now torn off but there are the holes of the pins in the cheques now—after they are taken from the country box the ordinary course is to enter them in the "Draft Sent Book," in which particulars of drafts sent for collection are entered—the prisoner Brown is a tailor of 50, Strand; he had been a customer of the Bank for about twelve months—I know his writing—I should say that this credit slip is in his

writing. (Read: "London and County Bank, Covent Garden Branch, 50, Strand, April 23, 1875. Credit, Ambrose Brown, country, 44l. 16s." The writing on the fragments which have been pasted on this sheet of paper, is Brown's writing (Read:" 50, Strand, W.C., London. Dear Mat,—With what I shall send up this—I think I shall be about 12l. short for Murrells cheque for 61l. 8s. Look after it for me, I will send up to-day,—Yours faithfully, A. M.") In the course of Friday, 23rd April, a cheque drawn by Brown was presented to me for payment—I should say it was about 11.45. (This was dated 21st April, 1875, drawn in favour of Messrs. Williams & Murrell, or order, for 68l., 1s., signed "Ambrose Brown.") When it was presented to me I first marked the "Ambrose Brown" through with my pen; as it now appears, as if I was paying the cheque—that is the ordinary way in which I should cancel the signature to show that it is paid—before actually paying the cheque I referred to Mr. Brown's account in the ledger—I found on that morning he had to his credit, 40l. 18s. 11d.—there was no credit given to him there of 44l. 16s.—Mr. Lawrence the cashier made a communication to me, and I paid the cheque to the person who applied for the money from the Joint Stock Bank—it was paid through a bank, and not over the counter—I cancelled the cheque for payment through the Clearing House—about half an hour afterwards I looked at the cheque for 44l. 16s., and in the course of the day I wrote on Mr. Murrell's cheque for 68l. Is, "Cancelled in error"—at that time I had had information with regard to the 44l. 16s. cheque.

Cross-examined by MR. M. WILLIAMS. I possibly might have said before the Magistrate that I folded them, the cheques and slip, together, and dropped them into the box—I can't say whether I folded them or pinned them—I can't say whether Mr. Hoar sent often for his pass-book to be made up; it is usual for a customer's pass-book to come in-once a month.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. I am under the impression that Maturin had a banking account at another bank, bat I should not like to say on month—Maturin's cheques have not gone through my hands—I have not looked at Brown's pass-book at all; I have nothing to do with the passbook's—I can't tell you whether Maturin-'s cheques appear in Brown's passbook; I can't answer whether Maturin lent money at all—I do-not know now that he did—we have a customer named John Coutts—I can't say whether Maturin lent money to him; my attention has never been called to it—I can't say whether John Coutts has paid money since this inquiry, or any of the other customers; I know nothing about that—Skinner & Sons are customers.

Re-examined. These two cheques have pin holes in the centre, and my belief is that I pinned them—I might fold them in a hurry.

JOSEPH CHEW (re-examined). Mr. Hoar's pass-book had not been checked with the counterfoil paying in slips since he has "had a "banking account, which was in 1872, until the 23rd April.

THOMAS FRENCH LAWRENCE . I am one of the cashiers at the Covent harden branch of the London and County Bank—on Friday, 23rd April, about 12 o'clock, this slip, marked X, was brought to me by Maturin, with this Wolverhampton cheque for 16s. 16s.—he told me to place it to Brown's account at once, as there was a bill coming due—I did not notice at the time I received it from Maturin that it was a country cheque—when I received it I entered it in my money book "A. Brown, 44l. 16s."—the effect of that

entry was to make it cash—the cheque was attached to the credit slip when he gave it to me—I can't say now how it was attached—I put it in the town and cash box, behind where the cashier stands, after I had entered it—about ten minutes or a quarter of an hour afterwards I looked at the cheque again and discovered that it was a country cheque—I then spoke to Mr. Highton, the chief clerk—in due course it would be taken out of the box where I placed it for entry in the waste book—when I received the cheque the words "Account Brown" were not on it—that is in Mr. Walker's handwriting.

Cross-examined by MR. A. METCALFE. As a rule, before I put cheques to the credit of a customer, I examine them—I did not on this occasion, because it was brought to me by Maturin—it is not the custom to give credit at that once to customers for country cheques—I have not done it before for Brownam that I am aware of.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. When cheques are paid in by customers themselves I should always look at them—a sum of 50l. in gold was paid into Brown's account about 3 o'clock that afternoon—with a country cheque three days would have to elapse before it became cash, and four days sometimes if it has to go to Scotland—Wolverhampton would be about three days—I knew of Maturin's keeping a banking, account at Vernon's, in Regent Street—Maturin's cheques were paid to the credit of Brown; that is how I am aware of it—Maturin's name would not appear in the pass-book—we should enter up London cheques as cash—I have not looked at his passbook—I don't know that Maturin has been in the habit of lending Brown money.

Re-examined. The name of Maturin does not appear on the credit side of Brown's pass-book; the cheques are all entered as cash—this is Brown's pass-book, for April-in his former pass-book I find Maturin's name on the credit side, "W. Maturin 12l., 4th Nov., "74"—that is in Mr. Baylis' writing, I think—there is also another entry of 10l.—on the debit side there is a cheque-drawn in favour of Maturin by Brown on' 25th' November for 10l., and on 10th December one for 20l.; I don't see any other—there is no entry to Maturin either on the debit or the credit side between 10th February and 23rd April.

By MR. METCALFE The pass-book would be a copy of the ledger account. so that in the cases I have mentioned Maturin's name would stand in the ledger.

HERBERT WILLIAM WALKER . I am one of the clerks in the Covent Garden branch of the London and County Bank—I kept the waste book on 23rd April, and it was my duty to enter cheques and slips that were put in the town and cash box—I found the credit slip X and the cheque for 44l. 16s. on the Wolverhampton Bank in that box—I entered the particulars of that cheque in the waste book—I have the waste book here—this is entry I made at the time "A. Brown, Wolverhampton and Staffordshire Bank, 44l. 16s."—I wrote the words "Account Brown" on the back of the cheque.

FRANK SLOPEB . I am one of the clerks at the Covent Garden branch of the London and County Bank and I assisted Maturin—I-find-an entry in the draft sent book of a cheque dated 23rd April, 1875, from George Hall on the Sheffield and Hallamshire Bank drawn by R. Rylot for 18l. 10s—I am under the impression that I got that cheque to make that entry from Maturin's desk—I did not enter the 44l. 16s. cheque to Mr. Hoar's credit at all—I commenced making my entries about 3.50 in the afternoon—I

entered there all the cheques I got from Maturin's desk—I recollect now that that cheque for 18l. 10s. Mr. McKewan gave to me—afterwards he said "You had better send that through in the ordinary course, and I entered it in the draft sent book for collection—up to that time I had not entered the Sheffield cheque nor the other.

WILLIAM MCKEWAN . I am one of the general managers of the London and County Bank—in consequence of information which was sent to me I went to the Covent Garden branch on the afternoon of Friday, 23rd April—I arrived there at 3.30—I think I had seen the cheque for 44l. 16s. and the other documents in Lombard Street, but I had them with me when I entered the bank—Maturin was in the bank office—I went into the manager's room—this (produced) is a ground plan of the offices of the Covent Garden branch—the desk where Maturin usually sat, is marked with his name—I don't recollect whether he was there when I went into the bank—he was called into the manager's room two or three minutes after I got there, almost immediately—I had the cheque for 44l. 16s. at that time—I asked Maturin what explanation he could give as to the circumstances under which this cheque for 44l. 16s. which had 'been paid into the bank in the morning to the credit of Mr. Hoar, found its way to the credit of Mr. Ambrose Brown in the middle of the day-—he said Brown had sent the cheque to him in an envelope and there was a memorandum with asking him to have the cheque placed to his credit as he had a bill to meet that day—I said "Can you show me the envelope"—he said he would go and loot for it—he brought in two envelopes addressed to himself, but they were both dirty and I said "It can't be either "of those two where is the memorandum—he said he had torn it in' pieces and thrown it in his waste paper basket—L said "The pieces must be there perhaps you can go and find them"—upto that time nothing had been said about Hoar's credit slip—it was about that time when we were speaking about the memorandum I said "Was not there a credit Slip paid in which these two cheques for Mr. Hoar"—he said "My rule is when there is a credit slip to check the cheque with the credit slip and then I put the slip on the file"—he proceeded to look down the file for the credit slip; but could not find it—the file had been brought into the manager's room—he then went out into the bank to look for the fragments of his memorandum from Brown—I went with him and while he was looking at the fragments of his paper basket which he had turned out on a desk behind him I looked about the floor and picked up any fragments of paper which I could find there—he gave me the fragments of paper which he said was all he could find of the memorandum from Brown—that is now pasted together and forms the document which has been produced the fragments which I picked up from the floor, with two or three pieces which came from the waste paper basket, formed the credit slip marked "A "the fragments had been screwed up in little pieces and thrown about they-covered a space of about 6 or 8 feet—they surrounded his desk, and two pieces were found in the waste paper basket, but neither of those pieces had any writing on them, they were only portions of the slip—the pieces which I picked up from the floor had been crumpled up, manipulated—I went back to the room and called him in, and after we had stuck the pieces together as well as we could, I said "There is no reference in that memorandum of Mr. Brown's of his having sent you a cheque for 44l. 16s."—he said "The cheque was sent to me by Brown"—the fragments of the credit slip had been placed out

flat so that I could make out the words "Sheffield" and "Wolverhampton," and the amount—they have been better pasted since—that is Mr. Hoar's credit slip which is marked "A"—I said "Here are the remains of Mr. Hoar's credit slip which came with these two country cheques"—he made an expression or gesture of surprise—I don't know what were the words ho used—I said "Someone has stolen this cheque, and not content with being a thief, he has thrown the fragments of the credit slip about your desk to throw suspicion on you"—he said "I hope you don't think that I am a thief"—I repeated that someone had stolen the cheque—I don't recollect whether I mentioned Brown's name at that time—he said that he was very anxious for the sake of his own character to have the matter investigated—I communicated with Mr. Mullens—the Sheffield cheque for 15l. 10s. was shown to me by the manager—I don't recollect who brought it in—I handed it to the last witness at the close of the day, to enter in the draft sent book—up to that time there was no—entry in that book of either of these cheques—I went and tried to see Mr. Brown between 4 and 5 o'clock—I went twice, but unfortunately I could not see him.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. I am one of the general managers at the Head Office; there are two—Mr. Livermore is the manager at Henrietta Street—I have not gone into this matter further than the first day, the Friday, I went—I have not investigated the matter myself personally—I have not investigated, the other two items in the indictment—I have heard since that Maturin had another banking account—I have not inquired into that or seen his pass-book—I don't know whether he was lending money or not; I should state that on the Friday he said he had lent Brown money, he lent him once 20l., and turning to one of the clerks he said "And you know Brown paid it back to me"—I don't know whether he had lent money to other customers—I don't know that he has lent Mr. Coutts or Mr. Skinner money; I should think it is very improbable—I have not heard anything about it of whether since this matter Mr. Coutts has paid it back—in Mr. Skinner's case I have been told there was a sum of 100l., or some such sum, but it is really hearsay—I don't know that Maturin has lent money to any customer of the bank—I have not inquired about Mr. Skinner—I have been told by the manager they found that a sum had been placed to Mr. Skinner's credit and his account has been debited with it—I have not made inquiries to ascertain whether that case corresponded with this or not—I have been informed by Mr. Livermore, I believe it was, that a sum of money had been credited to Mr. Skinner's account which should not have been credited to his account, and his account has been charged with it and he has paid it—I can't tell you whether it was improperly charged by Maturin—I did not inquire—I did not inquire whether it was one sum or several—my impression is that it was 100l.—I have not inquired into it to see whether this case differs from Skinner's—I have plenty of work to do and I don't usually follow out the details as you are well aware—it was put into the hands of a competent clerk—I have' given instructions that the matter should be inquired into—probably Mr. Livermore will be able to tell you—I am aware that Brown has given Mr. Mullens every item from his book to the amount of 390l.—they have been looked over and I believe have been found correct—I know there was a willingness expressed to pay the money for this—I saw a letter from his attorney.

Cross-examined by MR. A. METCALFE. When country cheques are paid in it is the custom to agree them with the slip and put the slip on the file—

the file is the proper place for the slips, but I can't say that a man does not neglect his duty—they should be put in that place—I have never heard of slips being torn up or lost, except in this particular instance.

Re-examined. A clerk would not tear a credit slip up under any circumstances before the entry was made in any of the books, unless he intended fraud—Skinner's case does not resemble Brown's case, that—I am aware of—this list speaks of 633l. improperly credited to Brown, but there is a deduction of two sums, one of 100l. debited on 27th April, and another of 49l. debited on 29th April to Brown's account—that was after this matter arose and the discovery was made of those two sums, when an investigation was commenced it was found that those two sums had been credited to Brown's account—Brown is a debtor because his account is overdrawn to that amount—the letter which I have spoken of from Brown's solicitor, is the only document I have seen supplying details of the money improperly credited to him—I have not seen any list supplied by Brown or his attorney—that is a matter I left in Mr. Mullens' hands.

RICRARD MULLENS . I am solicitor for the prosecution and solicitor to the Banker's Association—I was first made acquainted with any difficulty with reference to this branch, on Saturday 24th April—I went first to the London and County Bank, Lombard Street—shortly after I arrived Maturin was introduced into the manager's room at Lombard Street where I was sitting—Mr. McKewan said to him "That is Mr. Mullens the solicitor to the bank, we have requested him to make all possible inquiry into this matter"—I said to Mr. McKewan "I think the most convenient thing for me will be to go up to Henrietta Street with Maturin"—we left together, and after calling at my office, we went to Henrietta Street—I did not take any documents with me—I had not been made acquainted with the case then, only that there was something for me to look carefully. into—when I got to Henrietta Street I was shown into Mr. Livermore, the manager's room, and he gave me a certain detail of the matter as far as it had transpired—Maturin was not present then—I saw Mr. South and took a statement from him and also from Mr. Lawrence, and then Maturin came in—I asked him to tell me how the cheque for 44l. 16s. came into his hands along with the credit slip in Brown's writing—I took down this statement in writing and afterwards read it over to him, and he said it was correct; "Baylis gave me the envelope, between 11 and 12 o'clock. I opened it, read it, and threw it on my desk; contents, a memorandum, tore this up, credit him the cheque; went on with my, work. About a quarter to 1 o'clock went out to dinner after clearing up my desk, then seeing the credit I handed it over to the cashier, Mr. Lawrence, saying 'Will you, credit this to Brown, as he has got a bill or cheque' "(he said he did know which it was) "to meet; I did not examine it; I saw it was a, cheque and that is all. A little after 2 o'clock. I returned From dinner; Mr. Livermore spoke to me about where I got credit from; told him as above. I saw Brown, on the afternoon of 22nd April, he is a tailor in the Strand; he said "My acceptance has been returned again, and I have given a cheque for it. I will send up the first thing in the morning and again in the afternoon, before you close." I understand him to mean he would pay in money that morning, and afterwards I was to mention it for him as he. would not like the cheque to go back. I did not see him yesterday. I did not go to him yesterday, or to-day; he has not written to me or 1 to him"—Mr. Liverwure gave me the fragments of the memorandum which has been produced,

and I put them in order and read it over to Maturin, and said "There is nothing said here about any cheque for 44l. 16s., how do you account for it"—he said "I can't account for it, that is how it came to me"—it was then 4.30, I think in the afternoon, and I left the bank, making an appointment for Maturin to meet me there again at 9.30 on Monday—I then went to Brown, but could not meet with him, he was at Brighton—on the Monday I went to the bank, shortly after 9 o'clock, and Mr. Livermore showed mo a letter marked "Y" beginning "Dear brother Maturin"—after reading it Maturin was sent for into the room—I then told him in consequence of something Mr. Livermore had said to me a discovery had been made that several falsifications had occurred in the books, and I particularly pointed out to him the addition of a figure "4" before "55" in the pounds column, making it appear to be 455l.—I asked him if he "would give an explanation of it, and he said he could—he looked at the book and asked to see two or three books which he named, and they were all brought into the room—he had a slip of paper and a pencil in his hands and he turned over the leaves of the books and appeared to take extracts from them—Mr. Highton, the assistant manager, then began to put questions to him and I said "No, stop, no questions must be put to Maturin, if he has anything to say let him say it, he can do just as he pleases"—he paused for a moment, threw down the pencil and said "Then I won't"—an officer was in waiting, and he was then given in custody—I afterwards investigated the matter with reference to other charges, and I have been engaged on it ever since—this list which has been used was made out by me; I should say that is not the first list that I prepared—I prepared this—the first was not quite as large as this—there was a difference of about 45l.—I have never offered to accept money from Brown, or his solicitor, and to withdraw from the charge some conversation took place between me and Mr. Moss, which was at first without prejudice, and I took up the line which I always do in these matters—this (produced) is the first list that I spoke of and the other is the same with the addition of two items and several items struck out—I found I had erroneously put down several items in that account which ought not to have been there—I made it correct and sent another list to Mr. Moss—I looked into the matter of Skinner's account which has been introduced to-day, but 1 found there was no occasion to go on with it—Skinner's casw does not resemble this in the slightest.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. I first of all seat in this list, which amounts to 772l. 10s.—I found that to be inaccurate and sent in a second which amounts to 633l., which, after deducting 139l. and something else, comes to 440l. odd—I found I had to deduct Leeds 68l. Paddington, 20l.—Dublin 49l. was the one that was improperly credited; Glasgow 100l. was improperly credited—Leeds 14l. and 39l.—then there is the 44l. 16s. which is being investigated now—I made the list 633l. odd—then there was a deduction for the small balance there was on his account on 23rd April and I made the net amount 440l.—Brown owes the bank that amount; he admitted that to be correct—he gave me a statement in writing of the way in which it came about; I have that statement here; it was made in consequence of a communication I had with Mr. Moss after he was committed for trial Mr. Moss sent me a paper signed by Brown and attested by Mr. Moss—I have had communications with Mr. Moss continually—he told me that Brown believed he was borrowing money from Maturin—he said that Maturin had represented himself to him as a man of considerable property

not being dependent on his bank salary, but having property of his own, and that he had a banking, account of. his own at Vernon's—he said, he was induced, in consequence of these representations; to borrow money from him—these sums which he has admitted to be correct he said he believed he was borrowing from Maturin, and finding the money was obtained from the bank he was quite ready to pay the bank—I made remarks upon what Mr. Moss said; he has offered to pay the money—when Mr. Moss had gone over the original paper with me and told me that Brown averred that he had no idea but that he was borrowing money from Maturin personally, I put the figures over to him and said "If you look in the pass-book you will find the drafts are credited Greenock, Dumbarton, Dundee, Glasgow, Newcastle; do you mean to say that Brown did not know that he had never paid in any such drafts as those received from those places?"—I must say that that did not take place in one day; we had several interviews—Mr. Moss told me that Brown had written the letter dated from Brighton, at Maturin's dictation and that he had done it in order to get Maturin out of a scrape the difficulty understood what we were talking about—I don't find that the 100l. which was entered was debited to Brown's account two days afterwards; it was not debited until after the investigation was begun—when the first two items were discovered they were debited immediately by the. manager to Brown's account—there is 100l. credited on 20th February; I don't find a debit of that 100l. on the 25th, certainly, not; it was not debited until after this matter was, discovered—there was one, "Dumbarton," that was not debited with "Dundee," the next day or two days afterwards; I can't say whether it was or not without the pass-book—I know only two items were debited which brought down the balance to 444l.; those two items were debited since the prisoners were committed for trial—I requested that the sums as discovered should be debited—sometimes the country cheques were entered as cash, and sometimes as sent for collection—Maturin did not lend money to Skinner that I am aware of.; I should say certainly not—I investigated the matter so far as to discover that Skinner's credit was a mistake, in only one instance; I found that he had been credited with 100l. by mistake, which was afterwards rectified—I did not ascertain whether it was Maturin's mistake or not—there was not a mistake in Courts' case nor in any other, nor anything wrong—I have not found that Maturin has lent money to other people—Skinner's mistake had no reference to Maturin lending him money, so far as anything I have learned; it was discovered to be a mistake which might have been made by anybody—I do not know by whom it was made.

Cross-examined by MR. A. METCALFE. I should not like to say which book it was I pointed out the alteration in; it was a large book—he said he could explain it and he took down some figures on a slip of paper—he had turned over the leaves of one book and then another and when he seemed to stop, Mr. Highton began to speak to him and I stopped him.

Re-examined. I did not seek Mr." Moss, Mr. Moss sought me—he appeared at the Police Court as Brown's solicitor—he might have come to me once before the committal, but I would not be too sure of that—I think the earliest false credit to Brown was some time in September, but there is no corresponding debit that I am aware of until after the discovery on 23rd April—in no instance was the false credit of money belonging to Mr. Hoar credited to Mr. Hoar's advantage, until after the discovery of this

matter; Mr. Hoar had not found it out until after 23rd February—when Mr. Moss was alleging that the letter from Brighton was written at Maturin's dictation, for the purpose of getting them out of a scrape, I said that he ought to bear in mind that the credit slip was in the bank at 12 o'clock on the Friday.

EZRA LIVERMORE . I am the manager of the Covent Garden branch of the London and County Bank—I was present in the room when Mr. Mullens took down some notes of what Matmin said—on Monday morning, 26th April, I got to the bank at 9 o'clock—I found the letters addressed to the bank on my desk—shortly after I got there Maturin knocked at my door, and asked whether there were any letters for him; I searched through the letters and found one addressed to him, indeed I found two, but one was a circular—I handed him the letter and he opened and read it in my presence—he then gave it to me—this is the letter and the envelope. (Read: "Brighton, Sunday night. Dear Brother Maturin—My balance I think on Friday last was 45l., I paid in cash 6l. and 50l. the same day. I suppose Murrell's cheque is all right. I hope you managed to credit me with country cheque for 44l. 16s., I sent you under cover on Friday morning. With what. I have coming due on Saturday and Monday I shall be short unless you credit me with the country draft; I have sent telegram to shop to pay in all cash they have in case of need; kindly look after my acceptance coming due to-morrow. I am looking after Redhead as you know his cheque was returned, and I hear he is going away, so I intend to get my cash if possible. Tours fraternally, A. Brown." Addressed" Mr. W. P. Maturin, London and County Bank, Covent Garden Branch, London."

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. I did not know at the time this occurred, that Maturin had a banking account, afterwards I did—he was not rather dashing to my knowledge—we were not making inquiries about him before this-occurred—the matter of the 44l. 16s. cheque was discovered because it was reported to me that the cheque had been handed by Maturin to Lawrence for the credit of Brown—it was that particular cheque that attracted attention—I had not heard before this matter that he had property independently of the bank—he never alleged it to me—I have heard plenty of it since—I did not see Brown's pass-book for the reason that it was in his own possession at the time of the discovery—I suppose it came to the bank from time to time to be made up—I did not see it when it came—it was not my business to see it—I was not aware that monies, either lent to Brown or paid to him, appeared in the pass-book—I have "not seen Maturin's pass-book with Vernon's—I don't know where it is—the discovery of the mistake which Mr. Mullens has told you about with Skinner, was on the 27th or 28th April—it was a sum of 100l., not 600l.—I have not tried to ascertain whether Maturin lent him money or not—with regard to that 100l. there was not much to ascertain, inasmuch as Mr. Skinner admitted it was a mistake, and authorised us to debit his account—I did not ascertain how the mistake was made or who made it is certainly my duty to provide against mistakes for the future, and to caution the clerk who made the mistake, but at that time this affair was under investigation, and I thought it formed no part of my duty to inquire—on my oath I don't know whether or not Maturin was connected with that mistake—I believe he was—it was a country cheque fur 100l., which was placed erroneously to the credit of Skinner & Sons—they admitted the mistake, and therefore it was not carried further—I will swear it was

not done by Maturin identically in the same way as this was—it was undoubtedly in favour of Skinner's, inasmuch as it went to their credit—the slip in that case was not to be found—I. think that cheque was sent for collection in the ordinary way—I can't say whether, it went into the signed by Brown and have read it—I was informed that he offered to pay the money—I don't think there is any other slip in Brown's handwriting connected with this matter except the one relating to the cheque for 44l. 16s.—we have dozens and scores of slips in Brown's hand writing, but I think only that one connected with the items in the account which, have been put down by Mr. Mullens as credited improperly by Maturin to Brown—I don't know—it as a fact, because I left the matter in Mr. Mullens' hands.

Cross-examined by MR. A. METCALFE. I have not found any items improperly credited to other persons and debited to Brown—I have not gone through the books with that object, that was left to Mr. Mullens there was not a cheque from Dumbarton to my knowledge credited to a person named Warner, and debited to Brown improperly.

Re-examined. Brown's pass-book would be a duplicate of the ledger-Brown asked me on one occasion to allow him to overdraw his account, but that was sometime ago, and has no connection with any thing that has passed recently—regarding these false credits as true, his account was frequently overdrawn, but not to a very large extent—I may say under 20l.-up to the 25th April the account shows that he had the advantage of the false credits to the amount of 444l.

GEORGE ANDREWS I am a clerk to Mr. John Scott of Drury Lane—he is a customer of the Covent Garden Branch of the London and County Bank—on 15th February I filled up this credit slip and took with it three cheques, one Dublin 49l., Twickenham 12l. 4s. 6d., Brighton 4l. 5s. 10d., which I paid in to Mr. Scott's account at the bank—this is the Dublin cheque dated February 13th the clerk initialled the counterfoil of the paying in slip—up to the 23rd April Mr. Scott's account was uncredited with the 49l.—the two other cheques were credited to him in due course.

THOMAS FRENCH LAWRENCE (re-called), I received to Mr. John Scott's credit three cheques and this credit slip, and I initialled the counter foil the Dublin cheque for 49l. was one of the three-after receiving them I presume that I placed them in the country box—it would then be Maturin's duty to compare the credit slip with, the drafts, and he would then forward the Dublin draft to Dublin for payment-after it was advised a credit slip in favour of Mr. Scott would be made out and passed through the waste book, so that it would go in as cash to Scott's account—this Credit slip "February 16th, credit A. Brown draft 49l." is in the handwriting of Maturin—I produce my money book and find on 16th February an entry in the handwriting of Maturin "A. Brown 49l"—I should think from the position of that entry, that I was at lunch at the time it was made-after being entered in my money book the cheque would then go into the town box to be entered in the waste book—the entry in that book' is "16th February, A. Brown, National Bank draft, 49l."—that is in Maturin's writing—as soon as the entry was made in my money book and the waste book Brown's account would be good for the 49l. to be drawn upon at once—the Dublin account would be remitted through the head office—it would be Maturin's duty to make a debit and send to the head office—this is in his writing "16th

February, 1875, debit National Bank 49l. for draft sent Dublin for collection"—I find in the ledger an entry of the 16th February, of cash to the credit of Brown's account of 49l.—that is in Mr. Fullick's writing—on the morning of the 15th the balance to his credit was 39l. 13s. 9d. and on the evening of the 16th it was 26l. 3s. 9d. after the 49l. had been put to his credit—there was a debit the same day.

FRANK SLOPER (re-called). I made the entries of the country cheques from the cheques themselves—I have here an entry in the draft sent book of the Dublin cheque for 49l. on 15th February, in favour of John Scott; on the National Bank, Dublin, drawn by P. McManus, dated 13th February—I made that entry from the cheque; I can't say that Isaw the credit slip—I have also got an entry of the 20l. Twickenham cheque for 12l. 4s. 6d., in favour of John Scott, on the London Provincial Bank, Twickenham, and the Brighton cheque for 4l. 5s. 10d., John Scott—that would go direct to our branch at Brighton—T have looked carefully through the draft sent book of 15th and 16th February, and there is no other draft for Dublin for collection except the 49l. draft for Mr. Scott.

WILLIAM CHEW . I am clerk to Mr. George Hoar, fruiterer, of Hart Street, Covent Garden—Joseph Chew is my brother—I cannot say whether I took this credit slip and the cheque there—mentioned to the bank—the slip is in my brothers writing and the counter foil in Mr. Hoar's.

JOSEPH CHEW (re-called). I made out this credit slip of 18th March, 1875—there were six cheques on Sheffield, Chesterfield, Bristol, Brighton, and two from Grantham, amounting to 137l. 16s. 4d.—the Chesterfield cheque for 20l. is mentioned in the paying-in slip—the counterfoil of the paying-in slip is initialled by a clerk at the bank—I am not aware that up to this time Mr. Hoar has had. credit for that 20l. cheque—he was credited with five out of the six cheques.

WILLIAM SOUTH (re-called). The initials on this counterfoil credit slipare mine, and that enables me to say that I received those six cheques—this 20l. Chesterfield cheque is one of them—having received them they would be placed in the country box; they should have then been entered in the draft sent book—there is an entry of five cheques to the credit of Mr. Hoar on 18th March in Maturin's writing—they are the same amounts as those on the credit slip, with the exception of the 20l. cheque—I don't see that cheque entered there at all; it is entered as an immediate credit—no name is entered; simply "Chesterfield 20l."—I should say that is in Mr. Walker's handwriting.

THOMAS FRENCH LAWRENCE (re-called). The writing on this credit slip has a resemblance to Brown's to the best of my belief, but I can't say—the entry in the money book on that date is in Maturin's handwriting; the entry is "A. Brown 20l."—that corresponds with the credit slip—I should say, from the position of the entry, it was entered in the middle of the day—I should be absent from 1 to 2 o'clock.

HERBERT WILLIAM WALKER . This (produced) is the country clearing sheet for 18th March; it is in my handwriting—I made that from the cheques themselves—I have there properly entered five cheques for Mr. Hoar, but there is no entry of the Chesterfield cheque for 20l. there; it is entered subsequently—all the cheques for the country clearing go on that sheet—there is au entry in the waste book for 18th March in my writing "A. Brown, Chesterfield, R. Warner, 20l."—I made that entry from the cheque which 1 got from the town and cash box, behind the cashier—the credit slip would be with it.

WILLIAM CHARLES FULLICK (re-called). On the evening of. 17th-March the balance to Brown's credit was 16l. odd—on the 18th he was credited with this 20l., and on the 19th 16l. 8s., on the 2th 45l. 10s., and on the 20th there was a payment of a cheque or draft of 117l. 10s., and on the evening of that day his account was overdrawn 23l. 6s., giving credit for the false credit of 20l.


Brown received an excellent character. The Jury recommended both Prisoners to mercy on account of their youth.

MATURIN— Five Year's Penal Servitude. BROWN— Twelve Months' imprisonment.