Old Bailey Proceedings.
20th October 1908
Reference Number: t19081020

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Old Bailey Proceedings front matter.
20th October 1908
Reference Numberf19081020

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1908, OCTOBER.

Vol. CXLIX.] Part 888.


Sessions Paper.







Shorthand Writer to the Court.





[Published by Annual Subscription.]









On the King's Commission of



The City of London,





Held on Tuesday, October 20th, 1908, and following days.

Before the Right Hon. Sir JOHN CHARLES BELL , Bart., Alderman, LORD MAYOR of the City of London; the Hon. Sir JOHN CHARLES BIGHAM , Kt., Justice of His Majesty's High Court; Sir HORATIO D. DAVIES, K.C.M.G.; SIR JOSEPH SAVORY , Bart.; Sir JOHN POUND , Kt.; Sir JOHN KNILL , Bart.; Sir T. VANSITTART BOWATER, Kt.; Captain W.C. SIMMONS, Aldermen of the said City; Sir FORREST FULTON, Knight, K.C., Recorder of the said City; Sir FK. ALBERT BOSANQUET , K.C., Common Serjeant of the said City; and His Honour Judge RENTOUL, K.C., Commissioner, His Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer and General Gaol Delivery holden for the said City, and Judges of the Central Criminal Court.

Sir DAVID BURNETT , Alderman




H. W. CAPPER, Esq.







(Tuesday, October 20.)

MOORE, William (16, errand boy), who pleaded guilty last Sessions (see page 637) of endangering by unlawful act (stone throwing) the safety of persons conveyed on railway, was brought up for judgment. His father, Charles George Moore, told the Court that if prisoner was released arrangements would be made for his going to work in the factory where the father was employed, so that he would be kept under the father's eye. Prisoner was released on the father's recognisances in £20 and his own in the same amount to come up for judgment if called upon.

STEELE, Thomas George (19, electrical engineer), who pleaded guilty last Sessions (see page 638) of larceny and receiving stolen goods, was brought up for judgment. Previous employers gave prisoner an excellent character. He had been in gaol since his conviction. He was now sentenced to six weeks' imprisonment, entitling him to be at once discharged.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-3
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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ANTHONY, Louis (27, bootmaker) , pleaded guilty last Sessions (see page 655) of endeavouring to conceal the birth of a female child lately born of the body of Emily Ethel Anthony by a secret disposition of the dead body of the said child. Prisoner having been certified insane, and being now in an asylum, judgment was respited sine die.

MAXWELL, Edward Louis, was charged last Sessions with fraudulent conversion. He failed to surrender, and the recognisances of himself and his surety were estreated. The police had obtained a warrant for his arrest, but had been unable to execute it. The recognisances of the witnesses were now enlarged sine die.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-5
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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COSSAR, George Edward (40, steward) , pleaded guilty of obtaining by false pretences from Arthur Edward Trounce £1, and from William John Heath £3 10s., with intent to defraud. He also confessed to a conviction at Worship Street Police Court on June 31, 1906, of a similar offence, and another previous conviction was proved. It was stated that there had been traced to prisoner forty cases of obtaining money upon forged seamen's advance notes.

Sentence, 12 months' hard labour.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-6
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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IMESON, Bertram (24, brush maker) , pleaded guilty of attempting to steal certain letters, the goods of Joseph Kempster. Several previous convictions were proved, dating back to 1900. Sentence, 18 months' hard labour.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-7
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Miscellaneous > sureties

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BIGNELL, Thomas (42, labourer); TAYLOR, Elizabeth (22, factory hand); COPE, Eliza (22, factory hand); and SIMPSON, Daisy (19, factory hand) : stealing and receiving a number of toilet-books and other articles, the goods of Marshalls, Limited, the masters of Taylor and Cope; Bignell, receiving one gold ring, the goods of Francis Charles Morgan, well knowing it to have been stolen; Taylor, stealing two bottles of scent and other articles, the goods of Marshalls, Limited, her masters. Taylor and Cope pleaded guilty . Bignell and Simpson were tried on the charge of stealing and receiving the toilet-books, etc.

Mr. May prosecuted. Mr. Burnie defended Simpson; Mr. Fox Davies defended Bignell.

ELY MARSHALL , general manager of Marshalls, Limited, perfumers, 46, Colebrooke Row, Islington. Taylor and Cope were in our employment. On October 3 the police brought to me the articles produced (toilet-books and papers, etc.), which I identify as the property of the firm, value £2 or £3.

To Mr. Fox Davies. Goods partly damaged are sometimes described as "throw-outs." I will not say that it requires an expert to distinguish between damaged first-class goods and original second-class goods. The public are pretty clever at discriminating.

Sergeant ERNEST HAIG, N Division. On September 4, in company with Inspector Ball, I went to 14, Baldwin Street, where I saw Simpson. I said, "We are police officers; we are making inquiry concerning some paper books which it is alleged that you obtained from some people working at Messrs. Marshalls, of Cole-brooke Row, and passed on to your uncle. She said, "I know nothing at all about it; I do not know the person you refer to? I told her I was not satisfied, and we took her to Islington Police Station in a cab. On the way she said, "The truth is the best, I suppose. I know Taylor, and I have had some books and papers from her, and passed them on to my uncle. He has had all I have had, and he has also had some lanoline." At the station she made no reply to the charge.

To Mr. Burnie. She was not excited at the visit of the police officers; I thought she was rather selfpossessed.

Inspector ALFRED BALL, K Division. On September 4, at 8 a.m., I, with other officers, went to 152, Armagh Road, Bow. We found Bignell in bed. I said, "We are police officers. I have reason to

believe that you have stolen property on your premises, and I am going to search the house." He said, "Very well, guv'nor, you are welcome to do it; you will find nothing here." In a back room on the first floor I found the books and papers produced. I asked Bignell where he got the property from. He said, "I bought it as job-lots in the Caledonian Market." I said, "From whom?" He said, "You know I can't tell you that; we never notice a man much who is selling on the stones.... I took no receipt. "I took him to the police-station, and he was detained. In the evening, after the other prisoners had been arrested, I talked to Bignell again. I said, "I have made inquiries concerning the books and papers I took this morning, and find that they were stolen from Marshalls, perfumers, of Islington, by two of their girls, Taylor and Cope, who passed them over to your niece, Daisy Simpson, and I shall charge you with receiving stolen goods." He said, "Very well." When afterwards charged with the girls, he said, "Thats all right, but I did not know they were stolen."

To Mr. Fox Davies. At Caledonian Market all kinds of waste property is sold. From my inquiries, I find that Bignell has been a frequenter of the market; he has been selling these books there. When I searched his premises and found this property it was not covered up at all, and there were with it a lot of toys and other stuff, such as might be sold in the Caledonian Market.

Statements before the Magistrate. Simpson: "I did not know they were stolen; I thought they were throw-outs." Bignell: "I did not know they were stolen."

Verdict. Simpson, Not guilty; Bignell, Guilty. The indictment of Bignell for receiving a ring was not proceeded with. He confessed to a conviction at this Court, on February 9, 1903, of receiving stolen property.

The police gave Bignell a very bad character; he is a noted receiver of property the proceeds of burglaries and the constant associate of some of the cleverest housebreakers and burglars. Taylor and Cope bear a good general character. Bignell was sentenced to four years' penal servitude; Taylor and Cope were released on their own recognisances, each in the sum of £20, to come up for judgment if called upon.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-8
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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THURLEY, James Norgrove (46, surveyor) , pleaded guilty of forging and uttering on or about August 7, 1905, a certain order for the payment of money—to wit, a banker's cheque for the payment of £50, and on or about August 26, 1905, a cheque for £10 8s. 4d., in each case with intent to defraud. Nothing was known against prisoner, and the prosecutors did not desire to press the charge.

Sentence, Six months' imprisonment, second division.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-9
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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FLOWER, William John (17, post office messenger) , pleaded guilty of stealing two post letters containing postal orders, the property of the Postmaster-General, he being employed under the Post Office. Sentence, Nine months' hard labour.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-10
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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REID, William Grant (22, auxiliary postman) , pleaded guilty of stealing a post packet containing a metal matchbox, money (5s. 6d.), and 12 penny stamps, the property of the Postmaster-General, he being employed under the Post Office. Sentence, Nine months' hard labour.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-11
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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HARKNETT, Horace John (30, postman) , pleaded guilty of stealing a post letter containing a postal order for 10s., the property of the Postmaster-General, he being employed under the Post Office. Sentence, Nine months' hard labour.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-12
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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ANSCOMBE, William (43, auxiliary postman) , pleaded guilty of stealing a post letter containing a postal order for 20s. the property of the Postmaster-General, he Being employed under the Post Office. Sentence, Nine months' hard labour.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-13
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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HUBERT, Albert (36, clerk) ; forging and uttering a notice of withdrawal from the Post Office Savings Bank for £10, a receipt for £10, and a receipt for £3, with intent in each case to defraud. Sentence, Nine months' hard labour.


(Tuesday, October 20.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-14
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown

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McGARRY, Percy Lett (39, formerly in the Indian Civil Service) , who pleaded guilty last Sessions (see page 645) of larceny, receiving stolen goods, and obtaining money by false pretences, was brought up for judgment. It was now stated that his pension of £80 a year on which he was retired on account of deafness had been stopped by the authorities, sentence having been deferred with a view to seeing whether prisoner might not be dealt with in such a way that his pension would not be imperilled. It was represented that he was a man hitherto of good character, but the Common Serjeant stated that he had caused inquiries to be made, and the report he had received (which he read) showed that since 1904, when prisoner was retired, he had been leading a criminal existence, having been engaged in robbing furnished lodgings and defrauding tradesmen by means of worthless cheques. Prisoner has also been convicted of bigamy. He stated to the Court that the monetary loss to himself consequent upon the withdrawal of his pension would, if he should live to the age of 70, amount to £4,000, and he asked that sentence might be minimised accordingly.

Sentence, 15 months' imprisonment on two indictments, to run concurrently.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-15
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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CANN, Henry (26, labourer) , indicted for uttering counterfeit coin twice in one day, pleaded guilty of uttering a coin resembling a sovereign. Prisoner has been convicted of minor offences, but not previously of coining, and has been in the army. The coin was stated by Mr. Webster, the officer of the Mint, to be a gilded token.

The Common Serjeant expressed the opinion that such things ought not to be made, though the imitation would not deceive any man in hit senses, but perhaps people who did not often have a sovereign in their hands, or were not quite sober, might be taken in. It was a case of attempting to obtain money by false pretences rather than of coining. Possibly some day the people who made these things might find themselves charged with coining.

Sentence, Six months' hard labour.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-16
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour; Imprisonment > hard labour

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BROOKS, Charles Albert (21, carman), BAILEY, Fanny (21, laundress), and FITZGERALD, Margaret (22, laundress) ; all uttering counterfeit coin twice on same day; Brooks possessing counterfeit coin with intent to utter the same.

Bailey pleaded guilty to having in her possession two moulds for making coins resembling a florin.

Mr. Beaumont Morice prosecuted.

Detective THOMAS HALL, T Division. On the evening of September 26, at 20 minutes past seven, I was in company with Detective Kirschner in the Greyhound Road, Fulham. We saw the three prisoners leave No. 133. We followed them through Crefeld Street and Bayonne Road to Fulham Cross and Dawes Road, Fulham. At about eight o'clock they went into the "Salisbury" public-house, which is about three-quarters of a mile from their address. The male prisoner ordered drinks and brought them to the two female prisoners, who remained just inside the bar, which was very full. They came out together and walked down the Dawes Road, and stopped nearly opposite No. 52. Just before reaching No. 52 the man handed Fitzgerald a silver coloured coin and he then threw a piece of paper carelessly away in the gutter. The woman Fitzgerald entered No. 52 after she had received that coin from Brooks. No. 52 is a small dairy shop kept by a Mrs. Beatrice Grainger. I saw the coin handed to Mrs. Grainger, and when Fitzgerald left the shop I entered and asked to be shown the coin. I broke it in a coin tester, showing that it was counterfeit, and marked the coin "H. G." in the presence of Mrs. Grainger. The three prisoners then walked to the Broadway at Walham Green and Brooks handed the woman Fitzgerald another coin, also silver coloured. Fitzgerald then entered Maynard's sweet-stuff shop and bought sweets. This was about 8.20. I immediately entered and received the coin produced from Miss Girling. It was counterfeit and I marked it "A. G.," the initials of the assistant. I noticed that Fitzgerald received the coins in her right hand. One was at Idris's corner and the other just before leaving Dawes Road. When I came out of Maynard's shop I saw the three prisoners outside the District Railway Station at Walham Green Broadway, with Detective Kirschner. I told them we were police officers and they would be arrested on the charge of uttering counterfeit coins. Brooks said, "I didn't pass any." "Fitzgerald said, "I didn't know they were bad ones. She (prisoner Bailey) kept sending me in." Kirschner arrested Bailey. On the way to the station I said to Brooks, "What is your name?" Fitzgerald said, "What is he asking you? Say 'No

fixed abode.' Keep your mouth shut." Brooks said, "I am in work. It is funny when I am in work. I then searched them. Brooks had 5s. in silver and 1/2 d. in bronze; Fitzgerald 7s. 6d. in silver and some bronze; and Bailey 7s. 6d. in silver and 1 1/2 d. in bronze money. Bailey had also 16 counterfeit florins. When Fitzgerald went into the two shops the other two prisoners walked just a few steps beyond the shop and waited. Detective Kirschner can best say what she did when she came out, because I immediately entered the shops. At the station Brooks gave his name as Albert Charles Brooks, living at 38, St. Catherine's Road, Notting Dale, and describing himself as a carman in the employ of the Great Western Company. The female prisoners gave their names as Margaret Fitzgerald and Frances or Fanny Bailey, with no fixed abode in either case. Detective Kirschner and I afterwards went to 133, Greyhound Road. We searched two rooms on the top floor, a bedroom and kitchen. In the cupboard of the kitchen I found one packet of plaster of Paris, a saucer containing sand, one packet containing silver sand, and on the window-sill of the outside front bedroom, behind the flower-pots, I found a mould in two parts, which I produce. The mould is for producing counterfeit coins. I was present when prisoners were charged with possessing sixteen counterfeit coins, and also with passing the coins. When I mentioned the finding of the mould at 133, Greyhound Road, Bailey said, "How came you to know our address. It is evident you know our addresses; we have been absolutely trapped." Fitzgerald said, "How was I to know they were bad? She (Bailey) sent me in with them. I didn't know they were bad." After the charge was read over Bailey said, "I am the one who used the tools if you want to know. There are the hands that used the tools," at the same time holding up her hands. "Since you have found out that I live at 133, Greyhound Road you may like to know I was there last night." Brooks made no reply. The coins are of the same date as the mould.

To Brooks. I saw you tender a large coin in the "Salisbury Hotel." I cannot say where is the 1s. 7 1/2 d. to make up the 2s. I do not know whether the coin you tendered was counterfeit, because afterwerds when I went to the public-house it could not be found.

To the Common Serjeant. I saw Brooks hand the coins to Fits gerald and he produced a bundle of coins to the woman Bailey just before the arrest. That was the parcel containing sixteen florins. They were separately wrapped in pieces of newspaper.

To Brooks. I didn't see you enter the house, 133, Greyhound Road. We were not watching there before seven o'clock.

To Fitzgerald. I am positive I saw Brooks give you the coins.

Detective ALBERT KIRSCHNER, T Division. On the evening of September 26 I was watching with last witness outside 133, Greyhound Road. It would be about 7.20 when we went there. We had been there perhaps half an hour when prisoners came out. I saw Brooks hand Fitzgerald a coin in Dawes Road. I picked up the piece of paper Brooks threw away, which is an exhibit. When Fitzgerald went into Grainger's shop Brooks and Bailey went some few yards

up the road and stood talking. When prisoner Fitzgerald came out of the shop and joined them they went up Dawes Road, down the Fulham Road, until they got to Walham Green Broadway. There they were in conversation together and were laughing. Outside Maynard's another coin was passed by Brooks to Fitzgerald. When she came out of the shop all three crossed the road by the Broadway to Walham Green District Station. They had some more talk together just previously to crossing the road. I was then joined by Detective Hall. We told prisoners we were police officers, and would arrest them for uttering counterfeit coin. I took hold of the two women. Fitzgerald said, "All right; I will come all right; you need not show us up." Bailey said, "I will come quiet, you need not catch hold of my arm." When near the station, prisoner Bailey said to me, "Now you have caught me you may as well have it; here it is." She then handed me 16 coins wrapped in newspaper. She then said, "The man has nothing to do with it; he is a respectable carman." When in the station I asked Bailey where she lived. She said, "I have no fixed abode." I said, "Where do you sleep?" She said, "I slept last night in a lodging house." The other officer had Brooks in custody. I went with Detective Hall to search the premises at 133, Greyhound Road. In the back room I found a saucepan containing melted metal at the back of the gas stove. On the mantel-piece in the same room were several lumps of lead foil. In the fire grate in the same room there was a quantity of used plaster of Paris. On the table in the kitchen there was a plate, on the back of which was a mixture of grease and lamp black. All the things I have mentioned are used in the manufacture of counterfeit coin.

BEATRICE GRAINGER , wife of Henry Grainger, 52, Dawes Road, Fulham, gave evidence as to Fitzgerald coming to the shop on the evening of September 26, about eight o'clock, and buying two penny eggs. Prisoner tendered a 2s. piece in payment and witness gave her 1s. 10d. change. Immediately she had left Detective Hall came in, and in consequence of what he said witness gave him the coin which he marked as described.

ALICE GIRLING , employed by Messrs. Maynard's, Limited, gave evidence as to the purchase by Fitzgerald of 2d. worth of chocolates for which she tendered a 2s. piece, out of which witness gave 1s. 10d. change. The 2s. piece she afterwards handed to Detective Hall.

ELEANOR EDITH MORGAN , 133, Greyhound Road, Fulham. About six weeks or so ago the two female prisoners took the two top rooms in my house. The rent was 6s., and they paid a week in advance. Mrs. Bailey said she was married and that Fitzgerald was her sister and single. A man who was said to be Mrs. Bailey's husband stayed with her for a week. After that he did not come again at any time. During the time he was there he and the two women used to go out together nearly every day. I saw Brooks at the house on the Saturday they were arrested. He came also on the first Saturday they were there, but did not enter the house. The only time I saw him come in was on the day the prisoners were taken. I could not say exactly what time it was. I had trouble at home

myself and didn't take much notice, but I should think it was between half-past four and seven. Prisoners went out, I should think, about a quarter past seven. I went up to the top floor that day and knocked at the door and had no answer. I had partly come down the two flights of stairs when I heard the door of the back top room unlocked. I heard a noise in the back room when I was up there like the tapping of a nail. About a week before this I had been to the dustbin in the garden, which was used by these two women, and had there found something that looked like hearthstone. As a matter of fact, I used some of it for hearthstone. There were nine pieces altogether, and they had a round mark like a coin on them. Afterwards I gave them to Detective Hall.

To Brooks. I think you were at the house on the 26th about an hour.

To Fitzgerald, witness said that there was a key to the back room door, and prisoners, Bailey and Fitzgerald, also had a latch key. Witness made the same statement in answer to the prisoner Bailey.

(Wednesday, October 21.)

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER , Officer of the Mint, stated that the 16 coins given up by Bailey and the two coins produced by the officers were all from the same mould. The coins were not particularly well made and the mould had been taken from a very worn coin. They might be said to have been made with a reasonable amount of skill.

Called upon for their defence, Brooks said he knew nothing about this case; Fitzgerald said she was not guilty of knowing that the coins were counterfeit.

Verdict: Brooks and Fitzgerald, Guilty.

Detective KIRSCHNER stated that Brooks had been a loader in the employ of the Great Western Railway from February 19, 1902, to the date of his arrest. He had been earning 26s. a week and his character was very good. Fitzgerald, previously to going to reside at 133, Greyhound Road, was working in a laundry at Shepherd's Bush; previously to that she had been a domestic servant, and bore a good character. Before that he understood she was a step girl. There was no conviction against her. Brooks had been keeping his mother at Notting Hill. With regard to Bailey, the police had been unable to find that she was married to the man Bailey, who was now standing his trial at St. Albans for uttering counterfeit coin at Bernet Fair. At that time the two female prisoners were with him. A detective officer had the women searched, but the coins were not found on them. They were found later concealed in a hedge. The man Bailey was an exconvict and was living with the female prisoners for about a week. During the remand at the police court he was recognised as being a wellknown maker of counterfeit coins. The police had no evidence as to what Bailey had been doing, but a great many coins had been passed in Fulham, and at one public-house there were handed to the police a spurious 5s. piece, a half-crown, and a 2s. piece.

Sentences: Brooks, Three months' hard labour; Bailey and Fitzgerald, each six months' hard labour.

Mr. Beaumont Morice asked the Court to say that the police had acted with commendable promptitude.

The Common Serjeant said he had often remarked that the constables had to do their duty.


(Wednesday, October 21.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-17
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

CHACKSFIELD, George Frederick (29, postman) ; stealing a postletter containing two postal orders for 12s., the property of the Postmaster-General, he being employed under the Post Office. Sentence, Nine months' hard labour.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-18
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentencesImprisonment > penal servitude

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KIRBY, Arthur (51, jeweller) , pleaded guilty of stealing and receiving three silver cups, the goods of Harry Rix and another (trustees of the Mildmay Radical Club); stealing a plated cake dish and other articles, the goods of Lewis Lewis ; stealing a mandoline and case, the goods of Emily Clark; stealing a pair of salad salvers and other articles, the goods of Horace Bolton . Two other indictments for larceny were not proceeded with. Prisoner confessed to a conviction at Spalding Sessions on March 4, 1890, of felony.

The police gave prisoner a very bad character as a professional receiver of stolen goods, the proceeds of burglaries.

Sentence, Three years' penal servitude.

An order was made for the restitution to the owners of certain identified stolen property.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-19
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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FOWLER, Edward (28, cook) , pleaded guilty of feloniously marrying Emily Eliza Block, his wife being then alive.

It appeared that it was at Block's request that he had gone through a form of marriage with her, she being in the family way by him; she stated that he had always treated her with the greatest kindness; he bore a very excellent general character.

Prisoner, having been in gaol for seven weeks, was now sentenced to two days' imprisonment, entitling him to immediate release.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-20
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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SIMMONDS, William (48, clerk) , pleaded guilty of obtaining by false pretences from Caroline Beer the sum of 2s. 6d., her moneys, with intent to defraud (a further indictment was not proceeded with); he confessed to a conviction at Clerkenwell Sessions, on June 6, 1905, for a similar offence; four other previous convictions were proved and he was described by the police as an habitual criminal.

Sentence, Eighteen months' hard labour.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-21
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded part guilty
SentencesImprisonment > penal servitude

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GILHAM, Edward (27, cook), and LOWRY, John (24, clerk) ; both burglary in room No. 106 of the First Avenue Hotel, belonging to the Gordon Hotels, Limited, and stealing therein one gold watch and chain, the goods of Clifford William Kemp; burglary in room No. 156 of the Grosvenor Hotel, belonging to the said Gordon Hotels, Limited, and stealing therein one pair of pearl studs and two collar clips, the goods of Charles Arthur Cholmondeley Steward; stealing and receiving, well knowing the same to have been stolen, one gold watch and chain, the goods of Clifford William Kemp, and one pair of pearl studs and two collar clips, the goods of Charles Arthur Cholmondeley Steward.

Prisoners pleaded guilty of the thefts.

Prisoners, who came to this country from Australia on June 4 this year and were proved to be a pair of expert hotel thieves, were sentenced (each) to Three years' penal servitude.


(Wednesday, October 21.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-22
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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CARPENTER, Edward (34, butcher) ; robbery with violence on Frederick Hill and stealing from him one watch and chain and £7 or thereabouts in money, his goods and moneys.

Mr. W. H. Sands prosecuted.

FREDERICK HILL , provision merchant, 18, Wimborn Street, New North Road. At half-past 11 on the night of September 29 I arrived at the "Earl Grey," New North Road, in a cab. I kept the cab till I came out. I have seen prisoner once or twice, but know very little about him. When I arrived at the "Earl Grey" I saw prisoner with a man named Dettrige. Dettrige was also arrested on this charge and discharged by the magistrate. Prisoner asked me to lend him half a sovereign to pay has cab. I did not give it to him, but I gave him and Dettrige a glass of beer each. I stayed at the "Earl Grey" till closing time. I got into my cab and drove to the "Angel," Islington. Prisoner and Dettrige followed me in a cab to the "North Pole." I alighted there, but got on to my cab again and went as far as the "Angel," where I paid for my cab. Prisoner came on to the "Angel" with five other men and they all alighted at the same time as I did. As soon as I got out of my cab prisoner struck me and knocked me down and the others kicked me. I lost consciousness and when I came to I was lying in the gutter outside the "Swan," which is a public-house near to the "Angel." When I went into the "Earl Grey" I had £8 in gold and some silver, but what silver I had I cannot account for. I gave my cabman half a sovereign, and had 4s. change, so that after that I had £7 10s. in gold. I was also wearing a watch and chain. They took the chain, but the watch was left, as the chain broke off. The value of the chain was £3 15s. I cannot show the jury how it was broken off, as I have left it at

home. I have been carrying nothing at all about with me the last few weeks. When I came to myself the money I had left was £1 1s. 7 1/2 d. I recollect prisoner rifling my pockets. He put his two hands right down into my trouser's pockets. I carry all my gold, silver, and bronze together, and it was in the right-hand pocket. After I was knocked down I felt prisoner's hand in that pocket. He laid on the top of me and rifled me. I didn't feel him snatch at my chain. That was taken after he had done my pockets down. I afterwards went to try and find Carpenter and the other four men connected with the charge. I found prisoner about a quarter to two and gave him into custody. I found him by walking about Hoxton, knowing that he is living in Hoxton. I found him and Dettrige standing at the corner of Wimborn Street. I was followed by a policeman, whom I had asked whether he had seen a man with a big moustache, and I gave prisoner in charge. Dettrige walked away. I recognised two of the other men near the court, and they were charged.

To Prisoner: I have not known you many months; not many weeks. You never helped me or gave me any assistance. I have never worked in Somers Town. I have been to the agricultural shows in Tunbridge, Chichester, and Maidstone, and for 19 seasons I have been down at Marden. When I came into the "Earl Grey" we had a drink. I didn't strike you in the "Early Grey." I said at the police court, "I patted Carpenter on the face in the 'Earl Grey' and said, 'How are you, old sport?' "When I left the "Earl Grey" I was going away on my lonesome. I didn't want anything to do with you at all. I was sober at the time.

Re-examined: I live opposite the "Earl Grey," and prisoner lives in Parr Street, which is distant about two minutes' walk. I have seen prisoner once since he was committed for trial—last Sunday morning, in Houndsditch. He asked me to square the case and not prosecute him and said he would make the money up to me. He asked me to have a drink, but I refused.

Prisoner admitted meeting Hill in Houndsditch on the previous Sunday, but denied that anything about the case was mentioned.

To the Court: I went to the "Angel" to get away from these people. I could not have got away from them by simply opening my door and going into the house.

Police-constable BERTIE SMITH, 172 G. I was on duty near the "Swan" public-house on the morning of September 30, about 10 minutes past one. I saw prosecutor, who seemed in a very dazed condition. He was bleeding from the mouth and his clothes were in a very dirty condition. He complained to me about being knocked about and robbed of his money and his watch chain. I accompanied him to the police station in City Road, where he made the complaint to the inspector. On the way to the station the man Chapwin was given into custody and taken to the station, but was discharged at the police court. As to prosecutor's condition, I am doubtful as

to what was really the matter with him; he didn't appear to be in drink and was allowed to leave the police station by himself. The police station is about three-quarters of a mile from the "Swan." I cannot say how far it is from Wimborn Street.

Police-constable WILLIAM KAMKIN, 412 G. On September 30 I was on the beat in New North Road. I saw prosecutor, who made a statement to me and I asked him if he could identify any of his assailants. He gave a description of prisoner, whom I had previously seen at the corner of Cropley Street and Parr Street talking with three other men. I took prisoner round to Parr Street, and just before we got to where the four were standing they parted company. I only knew three of the men, one was prisoner, one was William Dettrige, and the other was Thomas Jenkins. I asked prosecutor if he knew any of the men. He said, "Yes" and immediately pointed out Carpenter. When I went towards him he dodged behind Dettrige into the road. I immediately arrested him and told him what prosecutor had said to me and he made no reply. I asked Dettrige to come to the station and he said he would, but did not do so. I took prisoner to the City Road station. On the way prisoner turned to prosecutor and said, "Man, you must be mad; you will be sorry for this." At the station prisoner made no reply to the charge. I searched him and found on him £1 10s. in gold, 4s. 6d. in silver, and 2d. Prosecutor seemed perfectly sober, but in a dazed condition.


WILLIAM DETTRIGE , 39, Bridport Place, New North Road. I was arrested on the morning of September 30 when I went as a witness to the court. The night before I was at the "Earl Grey" with prisoner when prosecutor came in and treated us both. Then prisoner paid for drinks and after that prosecutor paid for another drink and left his change, a matter of 3d. or 5d., on the counter. His attention was drawn to it by prisoner going to pick it up to give it to him. As prisoner went to pick it up prosecutor hit him behind the ear and said, "Let that alone." Prisoner said, "I was only going to give it to you, Fred," and they had a row about it, an argument. We afterwards went outside, prisoner seemed very much upset about it and asked prosecutor to apologise. There was a cab outside and prosecutor, making use of an expression, jumped into the cab and off he went. There was another cab standing there so Carpenter said to me, "Come, let us jump into this cab and I will go after him." Prosecutor's cab stopped in Upper Street in front of the "Swan." Both the cabs stopped together. Prosecutor got out and paid the cabman and when he saw prisoner he said, "Oh, have you come up here for trouble? You have just come to the right place for it." With that the prosecutor took off his coat and hit Carpenter. I picked up prosecutor's coat and helped to put it on him and as I did so Carpenter hit him back. Then they set to and had a fight in the gutter, rolling on the top of one another. It was more a wrestle than a

fight. I and a lot of people round pulled them apart and I told them to go away out of it. Prisoner went a little way off, but came back and would still persist in fighting. I said to him, "If you are going to keep on that game I am going to leave you to it," and with that I walked away. I am perfectly sure prosecutor hit prisoner first.

Cross-examined. I am a spring maker (hardware). I have known Carpenter I suppose 10 years. I had been with him about an hour before this row took place in the "Earl Grey." We had been drinking and had changed a sovereign. I was not with Chapwin and Edmonds at all that evening. I had never seen prosecutor before. We stayed drinking until closing time. No one went with me in the cab besides Carpenter. It is absolutely untrue that we were with any other men during the time this row happened. I did not then know Chapwin, but I knew the other two men who were charged with me. It is true I was with prisoner and two other men before he was arrested, but they were not the two men who were afterwards given into custody. When prosecutor hit prisoner behind the ear the latter did not complain that someone had been knocking him about. Prisoner was supposed to go to the "Angel" to get an apology. Prosecutor paid for several drinks, but he was in a fit state to go out alone with a watch and chain on him. He would not be an easy man to knock down and I should think he was probably the better man, judging from the blow I saw him give prisoner that night. It is true that Carpenter did knock him down, and after that they were both wrestling. Prisoner and Hill got up together. Hill was not left lying in the gutter. The fight lasted about three minutes. No policeman came. I did not see anyone else go for prosecutor. I didn't go to work next morning. I work for my father and start when I like. I went to see about prisoner. I saw two policemen running up Upper Street after prisoner, and I went round to Mr. Edmonds, who was charged the next morning, and said to him, "I believe Ted has got into trouble. Can you come and bail him out?"

To Prisoner: After I picked you up at the "Angel" you walked away; you did not run.

EDWARD CARPENTER (prisoner, not on oath) said that on the night in question he was in the house he usually used, in the saloon bar. Prosecutor came in and asked him to have a drink. He had a drink with him, and they had drinks all round the bar. Prosecutor left 3d. on the counter and the barmaid called his attention to it. He (prisoner) picked it up and said, "Fred, here is your change," and handed it to him. Prosecutor said something to him and he said something back. Thereupon prosecutor struck him in the jaw. He asked him to apologise, and prosecutor then said, "If you want trouble come to the 'Angel.' " He (prisoner) replied, "We will have a fight if you want one," and that accounted for how he got down to the "Angel." Directly he got out of the cab prosecutor struck him and he struck prosecutor. They had a rough and tumble; the jury would know what two drunken men were.

Verdict: Not guilty.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-23
VerdictsGuilty > unknown
SentencesImprisonment > hard labour

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TEER, Joseph (28, labourer) ; feloniously causing grievous bodily harm to Edward Thompson, with intent to resist his lawful apprehension; assaulting William Melton, a peace officer then in the execution of his duty, and assaulting and beating Jesse Puddifoot.

Mr. Graham-Campbell prosecuted.

Police-constable WILLIAM MELTON, 589 V. I was on duty in Lavender Road on the night of October 3-4. About 12.45 I saw the prisoner lying across the footway asleep. I woke him up and found he was drunk. He then commenced shouting and making use of filthy language. I tried to get him to go away and as he would not do so I arrested him, with the assistance of Constable Thompson. Prisoner went quietly for a few yards and then commenced to kick and struggle violently, saying, "You won't take me; I could fight the two of you." Prisoner threw himself on the ground and kicked Thompson in the right temple as he was in a stooping position. We all struggled on the ground. Prisoner struck me two violent blows on the right cheek and kicked Thompson on the right side of the head. Two men, Puddifoot and Cross, came to our assistance. Prisoner bit Puddifoot on the right leg and on the index finger of the left hand, and said, "You have not got such an easy job as you thought." With the assistance that arrived we commenced to take him to the station. On the way he said, "I will go quietly." He went quietly for 200 or 300 yards and then commenced to kick and struggle again and kicked Thompson on the knee. Other constables came to our assistance, and altogether it took five of us to take him to the station. He was biting and kicking all the way. I was present when the charge, that of causing grievous bodily harm, was read over to him at the station. He said, "He (Thompson) will get bodily harm worse if I meet him." Puddifoot and Cross were at the station and prisoner said to them, "You wait until to-morrow. I will give you the biggest hiding you ever had in your lives. If they keep me in here some of the boys will give it to you, you whitelivered curs."

Police-constable EDWARD THOMPSON, 413 V. On the night of October 3-4, at about a quarter to one, I was fetched to Lavender Road, and saw the last witness struggling with the prisoner. I assisted Melton by catching hold of prisoner by the right arm. He threw himself down. I stooped to catch hold of him again and he gave me a violent kick on the right temple. I had my whistle in my tunic and prisoner broke it off the chain. There was a crowd of about 100 and two men came to our assistance. I then assisted to take prisoner to the station. On the way he gave me a violent kick on the left leg. I am still on the sick list.

Police-constable CHARLES MILNES, 387 V. I went to Lavender Road on the early morning of October 4. I there saw the last witness staggering on the footway, holding his head with his hands as if in great pain. Melton had prisoner in custody, and they were surrounded by a large crowd. Prisoner went quietly for about 400 yards, when he threw himself on the ground and was very violent and made several attempts to kick and bite me. When Thompson came to our assistance prisoner deliberately kicked him on the left leg. I heard

prisoner threaten the two private witnesses in the charge room. In reply to the charge prisoner said, "He (Thompson) will get bodily harm worse if I meet him." Prisoner was drunk.

JESSE PUDDIFOOT , labourer, York Road, Battersea, giving corroborative evidence, said he noticed prisoner struggling with two policemen in the Lavender Road in the early morning of October 4 and went to their assistance. When he took hold of prisoner the latter bit his finger. Prisoner kicked Thompson on the side of the head. Witness then helped to hold prisoner's legs and blew the whistle 'o' get further assistance.

FELIX CHARLES KEMPSTER , divisional surgeon. At two a.m. on the morning of October 4 I was called to Lavender Hill Police Station, where I examined Thompson. I found a severe contused wound and abrasion on the right temple and the ear. He was suffering from concussion of the brain and was very dazed. I put him on the sick list. At the first hearing at the police court he was unable to give evidence as he had to keep his bed, where he remained for a week. He is still on the sick list. I examined him this morning. He has not yet recovered from his injuries. He has a slight discharge from the ear, showing that there has been some injury to the bone of the head, which is a serious matter. This discharge has been on since the second day after his injury. He also suffers from attacks of giddiness and has almost fallen several times. I have tested him by the Bhomberg test and find there is a loss of muscular co-ordination. Altogether it is a very serious injury. It is difficult to say how much longer he is likely to be on the sick list. Possibly he may not be able to resume at all. Such a condition would, I think, if continued, render him unfit for further duty. I examined Puddifoot and found he had a bite on the first finger of the left hand and also a mark on his leg. I also examined prisoner as he said he was ill and found he was suffering from drunkenness. He had been violently sick in the charge room. Puddifoot was under the impression that he had been bitten on the leg, but that injury might have been caused in the struggle; the surface of the skin was torn.

Verdict, Guilty.

The Jury desired to record their opinion that the witness Puddifoot should be commended for his conduct in assisting the police.

Mr. Graham-Campbell thought this commendation should apply also to Cross, who also rendered assistance to the police, but whom the prosecution had not thought it necessary to call as there was, without him, sufficient corroboration of the story.

The Common Serjeant observed that Cross was not injured in the way that Puddifoot was.

Detective-sergeant Bell proved a number of previous convictions. Sentence, Twenty months' hard labour.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-24
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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NOLAN, George (25, cook) ; uttering counterfeit coin. (In this case the coin attempted to be uttered was a brass imitation of a Kruger sovereign. The Kruger coinage was made currency by Royal proclamation after the annexation of the South African Republic, theauthorisation of the proclamation having been provided for by the Coinage Act of 1861, Section 1.)

Mr. Sands prosecuted.

MARGARET DUNHAM , clerk at Berners Street Post Office, Oxford Street. On October 7, at four o'clock in the afternoon, I was on duty. Prisoner came into the office, asked for a postal order, and put on the counter a coin which looked like a sovereign, together with a 1d. The sovereign was bright when I took it, not as dingy as it is now. I took it to be a sovereign. I gave him the £1 postal order and took up the money at the same time. I told him the order would be 1 1/2 d., and he gave me another 1d. Then I picked up all the money and saw what he had given me. Prisoner snatched up the order and moved away from the counter. I said, "Stop a moment," and he ran out of the office. I saw him in custody in the street some time afterwards. The man I saw in custody was, I am quite sure, the man who tendered that coin. I identify the postal order produced as the one I issued.

CHARLES PAGE , hotel porter, 30, Winborne Street, Tottenham Court Road. I was in the Berners Street Post Office on the afternoon of the 4th, when prisoner came in and asked for an order. I saw the order on the counter. Prisoner passed over some money, and the young lady said, "It is another 1/2 d." He passed a penny to her, snatched up the order, and ran out of the office. The young lady called out, "Stop that man; stop that man." I went out after him and he ran through Goodge Street and part of the way down Newman Street before he knew I was behind him. Then he crossed the road and quietly walked up the other side. I made a dive for him across the road. He saw me and recognised me, cursed me, and then ran as for his life to Goodge Street. He doubled down Goodge Street and as he ran into Chandos Street he tried to dodge me under some vans and twisted round a lamp-post, I after him. I chased him back to Cleveland Street corner and called to a man there, "Stop him." Prisoner hit the man in the face, and as he did so I flung myself upon him and held him, at the same time calling out to the crowd to call up the police. A whistle was blown and a policeman came up. While I was holding prisoner he tried to kick me in the leg.

Police-constable HAROLD NIGHTINGALE, 400 D, gave evidence as to finding prisoner detained by the last witness, and taking him into custody. At the station he was charged with stealing a postal order and further with uttering a counterfeit coin. On the way to the station he said witness had made a mistake. At the station he said to Page, "I suppose you have always been honest and never been 'pinched!' You might have given me a chance." Witness found great difficulty in taking prisoner to the station and the crowd did not help him at all. On prisoner were found the postal order, three foreign coins, and a French penny.

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER , officer of His Majesty's Mint. I produce a Kruger sovereign, which was coined in the Transvaal Mint before the annexation. These are current Transvaal sovereigns and are

practically of the same value as our own. The English sovereign weighs 123 grains and the Kruger sovereign is of the same weight within a fraction of a grain. The coin which prisoner attempted to pass is an imitation of the genuine coin produced, but not an exact imitation, because the two are of different years. It has got tarnished since it has been handed to me. It is made of brass and has not been gilt. I do not think it has ever been gilded, because I have sevaral of them and they are all of brass. It is a perfect imitation so far as the type and letters are concerned, even to the graining and also the portrait of Kruger. The original idea of the people who made them was not fraudulent. The purpose for which they were originally struck was that they should be used as card counters, but, of course, anyone who got hold of a coin of that sort could use it for fraudulent purposes.

Verdict: Guilty. Previous convictions were proved for burglary, possession of housebreaking instruments by night, and attempted shop-breaking.

Sentence, Twelve months' hard labour.


(Wednesday, October 21.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-25
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceMiscellaneous > sureties

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WILKINSON, Charles (17, greengrocer) , who pleaded guilty last Session (see page 712) of attempting to carnally know Gwendoline Evans, a girl above the age of 13 years and under the age of 16 years, to wit, of the age of 15 years, and indecently assaulting her, was now released on his own recognisances in £5 to come up for judgment if called upon.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-26
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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SMITH, James (34, labourer) , pleaded guilty of stealing one watch and one chain, the goods of William Shannon; stealing 10s. in money, the goods of Charles Rowe ; he confessed to a conviction at this Court on April 22, 1901 (receiving four years' penal servitude), for larceny from children; a large number of short convictions for the same offence were proved.

Sentence, Three years' penal servitude.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-27
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceMiscellaneous > sureties

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MARTIN, Frank (37, labourer) ; feloniously wounding Alice Martin, with intent to do her some grievous bodily harm.

Mr. Harold Hardy prosecuted.

ALICE MARTIN , wife of prisoner, 10, Modena Street, Kilburn. On september 1, 1908, I and the prisoner had been to a funeral; he came home under the influence of drink and asked me for money. I told him he had fallen out of work on the Saturday, I had no more to give him, and we had words. For the past five years I have been employed by the London County Council as a foster-mother; prisoner has been a labourer on the Paddington Borough Council for 10 or 12 years. On September 1 prisoner lost

his temper, picked up my sweeping broom, and hit me with it in a tussle we had. I do not think he meant to hurt me. During the night he was drinking heavily and at 7 a.m. the next morning he was taking down the bedstead and I told him I should have no more of it, and should go to the Court for protection. I went into the kitchen and was cleaning my shoes, when he hit me on the head with a hammer. I do not believe he knew what he was doing, as he had been drinking very heavily for weeks past. His stepdaughter was present. I became unconscious and the next I remember was coming to consciousness in the room down below. The divisional surgeon attended me. I was kept in bed for a week. I was suffering more from shock than from the wounds.

To Prisoner: You were taking the bedstead down, and walked into the kitchen to get the hammer to knock the side of the bedstead out; we started nagging and jawing again, when you struck me.

To the Judge: We have been married 13 years next March. I have had six children, of whom five are living. Prisoner has treated me with every kindness and respect; he has been an honest, hard-working man, and has worked for the Borough of Paddington for 10 years; he is a decent, kindly man when not drinking. He does not drink generally. I have nothing to say against him in any respect. I think he lost himself. If he had not been drinking I do not think he would have touched me.

DOROTHY GLADWORTH , daughter of prosecutrix. I shall be 16 next February. On September 2 my mother and stepfather were in the kitchen, when I saw him hit her on the head twice with the hammer. I screamed and ran out of the room; someone came down; my mother was taken downstairs and attended to by the doctor.

Dr. HOUGHTON, deputy divisional surgeon. On September 2 I attended prosecutrix. She had two lacerated wounds at the back of the head, and was bruised a great deal about the body and on the head and shoulders. I had to put a stitch to each wound. She was suffering from shock. There was no great loss of blood. The wounds were consistent with blows from a hammer.

Police-constable TOMLINSON, 514 X. I saw prisoner at Twickenham Mews, where his sister lives. I told him the charge. He said "I expected you to come. I came to tell them all about it." He was taken to the police-station and in reply to the charge said, "All right." I found the hammer in his house at Modena Street. (To the Judge.) Prisoner has been working on the Paddington Vestry for 11 years up to June last; he bears a very good character indeed.

Prisoner's statement before magistrate: "I had no intention of doing any harm. I did not know I had the hammer in my hand. She was nagging me so. When I saw what I had done I dropped the hammer and went out. She and her illegitimate children were taken out of the gutter by me. I brought up her children."

Prisoner now put in a long written statement setting out many acts of violence on the part of the prosecutrix and provocation.

Verdict, Guilty.

At the instance of the Judge, prisoner promised to abstain in the future from drink, and he was released on his own recognisances in £5 to come up for judgment if called upon.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-28
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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LOCKE, Bernard ; committing an act of gross indecency with another male person.

Mr. F. Hinde prosecuted. Mr. G. Elliott defended.

Verdict, Not guilty.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-29
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceMiscellaneous > sureties

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STRONG, George (35, clerk) , who pleaded guilty on May 22, 1906, of obtaining money and property, and attempting to obtain money by false pretences, was now released on his own recognisances in £10 to come up for judgment if called upon.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-30
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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WILSON, George, otherwise John Appleby (28, clerk) ; stealing one bicycle, the goods of Bertram Henry Dawson.

Mr. Cohen prosecuted; Mr. Bickmore defended.

BERTRAM HENRY DAWSON , 35, Jewry Street, engineer. On September 11, 1908, at about 5.45 p.m., I left my bicycle (produced) outside my workshop, which is in the basement. I noticed a shadow passing the window. I rushed up and saw the prisoner about 20 yards off astride of the bicycle. I stopped him until a constable came.

Cross-examined. This was about 6.30 p.m.—it was light. There are two stone steps from the pavement to the front door, but I enter my workshop from an opening in the front by a ladder—it is a sort of cellar flap, having glass doors which are kept open on the pavement; the bicycle was placed across the doors; it had a padlock round the cog-wheel, which was locked; the bicycle could be lifted away. I had been working under the window for three-quarters of an hour in sight of the bicycle. I usually leave the bicycle there, as I have no other place to put it. Many people pass the window. The shadow first attracted my attention and then I saw prisoner pass with the bicycle in hand. I could get up to the pavement in about 10 seconds. Prisoner was astride of the machine about 20 yards away; he had just got across it. With the padlock on you can wheel the machine for about five yards. I am sure the padlock was on. At the police court prisoner said he was resting on the steps and had moved the machine so as to sit down; but the bicycle was not in front of the steps. (To the Judge.) Prisoner was 20 yards away from where I left the bicycle and was astride of it. (To Mr. Bickmore.) I laid hold of prisoner and threw him off the machine; he was just mounting. I was fortunate enough to catch him before he got 20 yards away. I did not ask him to give an explanation of what he was doing with my machine. I was smarting under the idea of having lost a machine before in the same way and all I was anxious about was to secure him.

Police-constable ARTHUR HUMPHREYS, 978, City. On September 11 prosecutor charged prisoner with stealing his bicycle and gave him into custody. Prisoner said, "I did not steal the bicycle; I just moved it so that I could sit on the doorstep." At the station he was charged and gave a false address.

Cross-examined. I did not see the circumstances. I came up afterwards, and prisoner immediately said he had moved the bicycle to enable him to sit down. He gave as his address Rowton House, Whitechapel. I made inquiries; no one was known there in the name of George Wilson. He had tickets upon him of Rowton House, Whitechapel, dated September 10, in the name of "Oder" or "Order" (produced). He was possibly living there in another name.

Re-examined. There are no tickets in the name of George Wilson.

Prisoner's statement before the magistrate: "When I went up to where the machine was standing it was in front of the door-steps. I felt faint and ill. I had had nothing to eat all day and I thought I would like to sit down a little while, so I moved the machine on to the kerb and I sat down on the step for about five minutes. I was waiting for a friend who did not turn up. I thought I would go. I was just going to pick up the machine and replace it from where I had put it when prosecutor ran out, knocked me down and nearly strangled me. He would not listen to any explanation. I had no intention of stealing the machine. I never jumped on the machine."


GEORGE WILSON (Prisoner, on oath). My proper name is Walter John Mills. I belong to a very respectable family connected with the licensed victuallers' trade and I used the name of George Wilson on this occasion for the first time in my life because I did not want my family to know the trouble I was in. I was living at Rowton House, Whitechapel; my rather and mother are dead and I have no home now. On September 11, 1908, I had been working at Billingsgate Market and had come along Fenchurch Street into Jewry Street. I had a bilious attack. I got an emetic at a chemist's in Fenchurch Street. Directly I got round the corner I vomited, so I walked over to a public-house to have a drink and to see a young fellow who used to work under me named George Moreland, who was not there. I went over to 235, Jewry Street, to wait for him and sat down on the step. The front wheel of the prosecutor's bicycle was half way in front of the door, so I lifted the machine off along the kerb I sat down, lit a cigarette and pulled "Answers" out of my pocket. After waiting about three minutes a carman came up and asked me to move the bike. I said, "It does not belong to me, I believe it belongs to somebody in the public-house," so I looked in the bar of the public-house next door and said, "Does anyone own the bike standing here." No one answered, so I said to the carman, "You had better move it." He was up in the van and asked me to move it. I moved it down eight or nine yards away from his van. He was going to topple two big cases down. He unloaded the cases, then I went to move the machine back on the pavement and put my foot on the pedal to run it back to the place I had taken it from when the prosecutor came up and knocked me down. I said, "I am not stealing the machine." He would not listen. He had me on the ground and was trying to

throttle me. A constable came up and he gave me in charge. I told the constable I was not stealing it; I was intending to move it back. I told the same story at the police court.

Cross-examined. I gave no false address. Detective Crouch knows my name. I have stayed at Rowton House for three months barring a few nights when I have been at my aunt's place. I have not seen Moreland to ask him to come here; I do not know his address. I lent him a sovereign two days previous to September 11. I placed the machine about 20 yards away from the carman. I put my foot on the pedal to run it up. The padlock was not locked; it would have been impossible to run it along if it had been locked. I have one of the finest machines at home. I have often run a machine up that way within the space of half a yard when I have been using the Stadium track. Prosecutor dragged me down and nearly strangled me; I have his finger marks all over my collar. I have never stolen a machine in my life. I have always been straight and honest. I am innocent.

Verdict, Guilty.

Prisoner confessed to having been convicted at this court on February 20, 1906, in the name of John Appleby (receiving 18 months' hard labour) for larceny from boys. Since his release on May 6, 1907, he had been trying to get employment. Prisoner stated that his friends were prepared to send him to Australia and that he had been in employment.

(Friday, October 23.)

Judge Rentoul said that, upon the inquiries he had made, he was not satisfied that prisoner would be provided with funds to go to another country and make a fresh start in life; and, as there was a previous conviction, the sentence must be six months' hard labour.


(Thursday, October 22.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-31
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded part guilty
SentencesMiscellaneous > sureties

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COOPER, Elsie Beatrice ; manslaughter of Arthur Cooper; committing wilful and corrupt perjury before the Coroner at the holding of an inquest touching the death of Arthur Cooper. Prisoner pleaded guilty of the manslaughter, which plea was accepted.

✗ appeared that Arthur Cooper, the husband, did not die until about three months after the injury was inflicted, and it was only on the prisoner's confession that such injury was known to have been caused by her. She confessed to some relatives that she had stabbed her husband with a hatpin after he had accused her of immoral conduct. Prisoner was a woman of good character. She was released on her own recognisances in £50 to come up for judgment if called upon.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-32
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentencesImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude

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WINBORN, Charles (39, farrier), and CANHAM, Arthur Thomas (22, farrier) , pleaded guilty of feloniously sending to Olive Joel, knowing the contents thereof, a certain letter demanding money with menaces; feloniously and maliciously sending to Olive Joel, knowing the contents thereof, a letter threatening to kill and murder Jack Barnato Joel.

Sentences, Winborn, Five years' penal servitude; Canham, Three years' penal servitude.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-33
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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MEDCALF, John (30, sailor) , feloniously wounding Annie Standen with intent to kill and murder her.

Mr. Herman Cohen prosecuted.

Prisoner refused to speak.

Dr. SCOTT, medical officer at Brixton Prison, said that he had had prisoner under observation, and that he considered he was able to speak and to plead.

Miss ANNIE STANDEN, St. James's Road, Bermondsey, telephone operator. At one a.m. on September 17 I was in Abbeyfield Road on my way home, in the direction of Trundley's Road, when I saw a man cross the road. I did not think much of it, but walked over the bridge, and when I had done so I crossed the road again, walking on quickly till I got to Abbeyfield Road. I had just turned the corner when I felt a pain in the back—a sharp sting. This was about seven minutes after I had seen prisoner cross the road. I turned round and saw him, but did not say anything, nor did he. I screamed, ran across the road, and knocked at a door. Prisoner slipped round the corner, and seemed to have vanished. I did not see the going of him. I was taken to a doctor. I could not say whether the door at which I knocked was opened. The doctor told me that I had been stabbed; the knife was left in my back till the policeman came and took it out. I was taken to Guy's Hospital, after which I was taken home by my father. At about 4.30 a.m. I went to the police station. About six or seven men were placed before me. At first I could not pick anyone out because I was so nervous, but I went back and recognised prisoner's face. He was a stranger to me. I could not tell you whether he was dressed as a sailor as he is now; he had his coat buttoned.

Police-constable SEYMOUR BUDD, 245 M. About five to one a.m. on September 17 I was in Rotherhithe New Road, when I heard a scream in Abbeyfield Road. I immediately ran there, where I saw prosecutrix leaning against the railings, with the knife produced sticking out of her back. I extracted it and took the girl to Dr. Thomas.

Police-constable JAMES CARR, 146 M. At 2 a.m. on September 17 I was at Paradise Street Station, when Sergeant Adlams showed me the knife produced. On the Friday before (the 11th) I had seen it in prisoner's possession. I identify it by a piece of tin which is attached to the chain. I had handed it back to prisoner on the 17th. I went out in search of prisoner, to a ship in the Surrey Commercial Docks, but he was not there. I then went to a house in Lower Road, Rotherhithe, where I found him in bed. He said, "All right, I know

what you want me for." I told him to dress, and took him to the station. On the way he said, "I threw the knife away this morning in company with a man named Nobby Tayor and Dan Tracey." When shown the knife at the station prisoner said, "I threw this knife away to-night in some road; I do not know where. I can't help who found it."

Sergeant ALFRED ADLAMS, M Division. On September 17 I was in charge of Rotherhithe Police Station. The knife produced was brought to me by Budd. When Carr came off duty I showed him the knife, and he identified it. I went with him to the docks and to Lower Road, Rotherhithe, but did not go into the house. I heard prisoner charged and I showed him the knife. He said, "That's my knife. I threw it away to-night in some street, and I can't help who picked it up." About three a.m. Miss Standen came to the station, and prisoner was placed with eight other men. He was dressed as a sailor. Miss Standen said, "That is the man with a stripe." She saw something white on his coat. On the first occasion she fainted away. When put in the cell prisoner said to me, "They take no notice of doing one or two in in my country." He was perfectly sober.

Dr. CHARLES HOLMAN, assistant house surgeon, Guy's Hospital. Miss Standen was brought to me about 2 a.m. on September 17. She had a wound over the right scapula; it was not bleeding at the time. The wound was an oblique-one. I passed a probe in about an inch and a half. It was not a dangerous wound. The instrument shown to me could have produced the wound. I should think a considerable amount of force would have been necessary to produce the wound.

A long letter was handed up to the Judge by prisoner, which was read. It was apparently from his brother in Canada and, referring to the act charged, hinted that prisoner was probably mad and should be dealt with as such.

Dr. SCOTT, recalled. (To the Judge.) Prisoner has been quiet and morose, but I cannot find any evidence of actual melancholia or other form of insanity. He has been amenable to the prison discipline and has always been able to hear and answer questions and talk coherently. I found no insane delusions and he did not vary in his statements.

Verdict, Guilty of wounding with intent to cause grievous bodily harm.

Sentence, 12 months' hard labour.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-34
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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JEFFERSON, Arthur (23, steward), and OSGOOD, Edward (22, printer) , both unlawfully conspiring, combining and agreeing together to send to John Walter Podmore, knowing the contents thereof, divers letters accusing and threatening to accuse him of having committed a certain infamous crime with intent thereby to extort certain moneys from the said John Walter Podmore; both feloniously sending to John Walter Podmore, knowing the contents thereof, certain letters on August 18, September 17, 23, 26 and 30, and October 1, 1908, accusing and threatening to accuse him of having committed a certain infamous crime with a view thereby to extort money from the said John Walter Podmore.

Mr. Walter Stewart prosecuted; Mr. Fox Davies appeared to defend Jefferson, who pleaded guilty .

Osgood was then tried.

Verdict (Osgood), Guilty.

Sentences, Each prisoner, Three years' penal servitude.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-35
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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ROUX, Auguste Sidney ; carnally knowing Dulcie Tollett, a girl of the age of eight years.

Mr. Lawrie prosecuted; Mr. Curtis Bennett defended.

Verdict, Not guilty.


(Thursday, October 22.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-36
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentencesNo Punishment > sentence respited

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HOMEWOOD, Dorothy (27, book-keeper) , pleaded guilty of forging a banker's cheque for the sum of £250; attempting to obtain from Samuel Smith by false pretences certain articles of jewellery, value £250, in each case with intent to defraud.

Mr. Cecil Fitch and Mr. Sidney Lamb prosecuted.

Sentence postponed to next Sessions.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-37
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentencesImprisonment > hard labour

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WATSON, George (22, groom) , pleaded guilty of stealing divers moneys, the goods of John Briers Wilson ; he was also indicted for assaulting John Briers Wilson with intent to prevent the lawful apprehension of himself, which was not pressed by the prosecution.

Several previous convictions were proved.

Sentence, 18 months' hard labour.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-38
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentencesImprisonment > hard labour

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HUMMELL, Laurent (32, cook) , pleaded guilty of attempting to carnally know Louisa Hodge, a girl under the age of 13 years; indecently assaulting Louisa Hodge and Frances Krigger.

Mr. W. B. Campbell prosecuted.

Sentence, 9 months' hard labour; recommended for deportation under Aliens Act.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-39
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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WATKINSON, Jane (30, cook) , pleaded guilty of having been delivered of a certain male child, did by a secret disposition of the dead body endeavour to conceal the birth thereof.

Mr. G. St. J. McDonald prosecuted.

Sentence, 3 days' imprisonment.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-40
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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BURDETT, Charles (70, hawker) ; stealing one dog and one dog collar, the goods of Joseph Goldsmith, and one dog and one dog collar, the goods of Edward Verall Lucas.

Prisoner pleaded guilty of stealing the dogs; not guilty of stealing the collars.

Mr. G. Tully Christie prosecuted; Mr. C. A. H. Black appeared for prisoner.

Prisoner was, in 1889, sentenced at this court to penal servitude for life for wounding with intent to murder, and was released on license in 1900. He had been known for 30 years as a dog stealer, his first conviction being in 1869.

Sentence, 15 months' hard labour.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-41
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour; Imprisonment > hard labour

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WHEELER, Henry, OLDFIELD, William (costermonger) , and JOHNSON, Daniel (costermonger) ; stealing one bicycle, the property of Edwin George Gardiner; stealing one bicycle, the property of Leonard Schultz.

Mr. Knight prosecuted.

Oldfield and Johnson pleaded guilty .

EDWIN GEORGE GARDINER , 79, Portway, West Ham, grocer. On October 7, 1908, at 7.30 p.m., I left my bicycle for about three-quarters of an hour outside my shop, and when I went out it had gone and I saw a man riding off with it—it has a peculiar lamp which I recognised. About three minutes before that Mr. Schults called on me and left his bicycle outside. A young lady came in and said they had gone. I had seen three men hanging about. I recognise two of them as Wheeler and Johnson.

To Wheeler. When before the magistrate I said I only recognised you and a man named Turner, who has since been discharged.

LEONARD SCHULTE , 4, Eversden Road, West Ham, traveller. On October 7, at about 8.10 p.m., I went to Gardiner's shop, 79, Portway, on my bicycle, which I left outside. Before I had been five minutes in the shop, a lady said something to me; I went out and my bicycle was gone.

Police-constable ERNEST BROADHURST, 148 K, stationed at West Ham. On October 7, at 8.15 p.m., I was on duty with Police-constable Foster, when I saw Wheeler riding a bicycle from the direction of Portway. West Ham, down Market Street. Turner, who has been discharged by the magistrate, was with Wheeler riding another bicycle. I ran after them, but owing to the crowd, was unable to overtake them. On information received, Foster and I went to Plaistow and saw Wheeler and Turner in company with another man in the Broadway. On seeing us approach the three ran away. We were in plain clothes. I followed Wheeler and caught him in Balaam Street about a quarter of a mile away. I told him I should arrest him on suspicion of stealing these cycles. He said, "I do not know anything about it. Take that, you sod," and struck me in the mouth. He struggled very violently, but with the assistance of another officer I got him down to the police station. The charge of assault was dropped at the station.

To Wheeler. I recognised you when you were riding a bicycle with Turner. (To the Judge.) I identified Turner and the prisoner

Wheeler as riding two bicycles. Turner was discharged in consequence of a statement made by the prisoner Oldfield.

Police-Constable EWART FOSTER, 478 K, stationed at West Ham. On October 7, at 8.15 p.m., I was on duty with Broadhurst when I saw Wheeler and Turner riding two bicycles down Market Street, from the direction of Portway. We gave chase, but did not catch them. At about 9.30, in the Broadway, Plaistow, we came across the two again and arrested them. (To the Judge.) I was present when the magistrate discharged Turner. I think he called witnesses and the magistrate would not commit him.

ELLEN VINALL , 60, Portway, spinster. I live opposite Gardiner's shop. On October 7, at about seven p.m., standing outside my door, I saw Turner and another man I do not identify about Gardiner's shop. At 8.15 they mounted two bicycles standing there and rode away. It was dark, but I could see very well because there were two lights.

ELLEN JAMESON , 49, North Side, Plaistow. On October 7 I was in West Ham Lane, which is about five minutes' walk from Portway, and saw Wheeler and Turner on two bicycles. They went down Market Street.

To Wheeler. I saw you on the bicycle. I have never seen you selling rabbits—you have not run away with any money of mine. (To the Recorder.) I have seen Wheeler twice, knew him by sight, and recognised him. I was with a girl at Plaistow Railway Station and he came and spoke to her. She said, "There is Wheeler across the road," and he came across to her. She said, "Well?" and he said, "I have turned up my job." I am sure it is the same man. I saw him once before, but did not speak to him.

To Wheeler. I knew your sister, but I did not know who you were before. I told the constable that I knew one of them by his selling rabbits and running away with some change—that was the smaller prisoner (Oldfield)—he was running with you when you were riding the bicycle—I did not tell the constable he was riding.

WILLIAM TURNER , labourer. I was charged with stealing two bicycles at West Ham, was discharged, and have since given evidence. On October 7, about 8.30 p.m., I was standing outside the Lord Gough public house, Plaistow Road, West Ham, when I saw Oldfield and Johnson riding bicycles. Wheeler was talking to a young lady at the corner. I then saw him walk off to Plaistow. At about 9.10 p.m., I saw him in the Broadway, Plaistow, with his younger brother, and he got into conversation with me. Afterwards Johnson came up and said, "Oh, it is all right, they are gone." I thought he meant the police were hunching him off the corner or something. An hour before this conversation with Johnson I had seen Johnson and Oldfield riding by me on bicycles. When Johnson said, "They are all right, they are gone," I had a bit of idea what "they" meant.

To Wheeler. When I met you at Plaistow you were in company with a young girl. Johnson came over to us. Two constables came and arrested you and me and took us to the station.

WILLIAM OLDFIEILD . I have pleaded guilty to this charge. On October 10, when in custody at West Ham, I made a statement to Sergeant Greenwood.

(Counsel proposed to read the statement.

The Recorder. You must not read the statement; you must examine him like any other witness.)

On Wednesday evening, October 7, I was standing outside the Prince Albert public house; it was just getting dusk. Wheeler and Johnson came up to me and asked me to go for a walk. Wheeler said, "Come with me, I know where to get two bicycles—my brother-in-law will buy them off us." Then we walked as far as 79, Portway, prosecutor's grocer's shop. We saw two bicycles there. Wheeler said, "There is two bicycles, my brother-in-law will give us 25s. for the two." I and Johnson got hold of the bicycles and rode away on them; Wheeler ran up behind; we went to Wheeler's house at the corner of Holly Bush Street. We met Wheeler outside his house just going indoors. (To the Recorder.) Wheeler took my machine off me at Holly Bush Street and took it into the house. I rode it right up to the house. (To Mr. Knight.) After that I had nothing more to do with the machines. I know his brother-in-law came round and took them away. (To the Recorder.) I got no money—nobody got the money. I know the brother-in-law by sight; I do not know his name. He had the bicycles. I got nothing out of it at all.

Wheeler. The only part of that statement that is true is that you stole the bicycles. They have made that up because I sent the police after them.

DANIEL JOHNSON . I have pleaded guilty to this charge of stealing two bicycles from outside 79, Portway. About 7 or 7.30 p.m. on Wednesday, October 7, I met Wheeler by the "Lord Gough." He said, "Hullo, Dan. Come and have a walk over the bridge with me." I said, "Yes." We went over the bridge and saw Oldfield standing by the Prince of Wales. Wheeler said, "There is Oldfield over there," so we both walked over to him. Wheeler said, "My brother-in-law has been round and asked me if I can get him a couple of bikes. Come round for a walk with me and I will show you where you can get a couple." We came to prosecutor's shop, and there was the outside belonging to prosecutor. We hung about there for three-quarters of an hour, when another man came up with a bike and went in, leaving it outside. About five minutes after I went off on his bicycle and Oldfield got on to the other. When I got round to Plaistow I saw Wheeler and Turner together. They said to me, "It is all over with you; everyone knows you have got them." I met Wheeler at Plaistow. He said, "Ride round. I will show you where to take it." So I went round to his home. (To the Recorder.) I never got a penny of mine. I was arrested on Friday morning, nine or ten days after. I and Oldfield rode the bicycles away; Wheeler did nothing, only went round to his brother-in-law. He ran after us, he could not keep close up to us. I could not go very fast because the brake was touching the wheel.

Detective-sergeant FREDERICK KEBLE, K Division. I assisted the uniformed constable in taking Wheeler to the station because of his violence.

Wheeler's statement before the magistrate: "When I first saw the prisoners it was a quarter-past nine and I was with Turner at the time. Johnson came up to us and asked me if I knew of anyone who would buy the bicycles. I told him to take them to my brother-in-law, as he would buy them. He was just leaving me to take them there when the officers came and arrested me; Turner and Johnson ran away and were not caught. Oldfield was standing by; he ran also. Since we have been caught they said to me, 'As you sent the police after us we are going to drag you into it and swear blind you were with us.'"

At West Ham Police Court Wheeler handed in statement in writing: "154, Holly Bush Street, October 13, 1908. I wish to inform you that I am entirely innocent of this charge brought against me. I swear it is a great mistake. Both the police and witnesses are giving false evidence against me, as I can call as many at 12 witnesses to prove where I was at the time the bicycles were stolen. The two constables are deliberately telling lies when they say they saw me riding a cycle. I can prove I never rode one in my life, as I am unable to ride one. Rather than lose a charge they would swear a man's life away. I came from home that evening at 5.20 to meet a young girl at Plaistow Station at six, as I can prove I met the young lady and was in company with her till eight. We both went to the 'Lord Gough' public-house in company with another fellow and his young lady, and were in there about half an hour, when there was a lot of shouting going on. We went outside to see what it was and saw a crowd rushing after two men on bicycles. I went over to where I saw a crowd standing by a constable. A girl said to the constable, 'I know one of the men on the bicycle; he sells rabbits.' She went away with the constable. I then went back to the 'Lord Gough' with my friends, stayed there till after nine, when my brother came and told me he had been looking for me and I had to go with him to a job. I left my friends and went with my brother and his mate to Plaistow. At 9.10 I met Turner over there with some more fellows—we had got as far as the Broadway; when I was just leaving the fellow I was with two men came up and struck me in the face and tried to get hold of me and another fellow. The other man, whom I found out to be a police officer, tried to get hold of Turner and another man. They did not know who they wanted or they would not have tried to get four of us. I admit striking back at them as I did not know who they were—they were in plain clothes. They took us and charged us on suspicion of stealing two bicycles. This statement I declare to be absolutely true. I cannot say any more."


HY. WHEELER (prisoner, on oath). When I and Turner were in West Ham Police Court charged with these two bicycles I happened

to know who the men were. I sent for Detective-sergeant Marshall and asked him to go and arrest the right two—I gave the names and addresses of Oldfield and Johnson and we were remanded. The day they were arrested they said to me and Turner, "I am going to drag you into it—you are the one that sent the police after me"; they said to Turner, "We are going to get you off and we could get Wheeler off, only we are going to swear blind that he was in it for telling the police of us." On October 7 I was in a public-house all the evening from six p.m.—I have witnesses here. I was not with the two men outside 79, Portway. I cannot ride a bicycle—never rode one in my life. I was in the "Lord Gough" from eight till 9.10; two hours previous I was with my friends from six till eight p.m. I was present when Turner was discharged—I heard no reason given—I was surprised—I expected to get discharged with him as we were both innocent. Someone got up in the Court, and said, "I wish you would discharge this lad"; Turner was discharged and gave evidence. The other two who rode the bicycles had said to the Magistrate that Turner was innocent and that I was with them—that was because I had told the police where to find them. What the other two prisoners had said is lies—they said to me just now, "We could get you off if we wanted to, but we are going to drag you into it because it is through you we have to go to prison."

The Recorder pointed out the contradiction in the evidence of the prosecution as to the riders of the bicycles, and the Jury returned a verdict of Not guilty (Wheeler).

Five summary convictions with short sentences were proved against Oldfield for larceny; otherwise he was hardworking as a costermonger; Johnson had hitherto borne a good character.

Sentence: Oldfield, Nine months' hard labour; Johnson, Three months' hard labour.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-42
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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MAHONEY, Thomas (46, butler) ; robbery with violence upon Bella Macdonald, and stealing from her one bag and divers moneys, her goods.

Mr. G. Tully-Christie prosecuted; Mr. Eustace Fulton defended.

BELLA MACDONALD , 161A, Westbourne Grove, office keeper to a motor garage. On September 12, 1908, I went out to see the Catholic procession, and at 11 a.m. went to a restaurant where I saw the prisoner, whom I had met twice before. He was very dirty, and seemed to have been drinking heavily. He had ordered something to eat when he took a penny from his pocket and said that was all the money he had and that he had been in trouble. I paid for what he had ordered, and he asked me to come into St. James's Park as he said he felt very queer. We walked through the Park to the turning opposite St. George's Hospital when he said he wanted something to drink, and asked me to pay for it. I said I had no money to pay for anything to drink. He said I had because I had a shilling. With that he dealt me a severe blow, knocked me down, smacked my face, kicked me, put his foot on my chest, and banged me about most unmercifully. He then snatched my hand bag (produced), cutting my finger with the chain which he broke. There

was about 1s. 3d. in the bag. A gentleman in plain clothes who I afterwards found was a police officer, jumped over the railing, took the bag from prisoner and arrested him. I believe there were two or three ladies in the park some distance off. This was about 12 noon.

Cross-examined. I do not know if the ladies are here—one was a nursemaid in charge of children. I believe their addresses were taken by the officer. They were not at the police court—the prisoner was taken direct to Bow Street Police Court at two p.m. and immediately committed. The plain-clothes officer took the bag from prisoner with great difficulty—prisoner had it under his coat. He asked me whether I knew the man. I said, "Yes, in a way I know him." He then walked prisoner a little way and gave him into the custody of a police constable in uniform, who was at the park gate. We then went to the station. The first time I met prisoner would be about six months ago; I was reading in St. James's Park; he said he was out of an appointment. I afterwards met him in Grosvenor Square, and he told me he had an appointment and was going to see the lady that afternoon at Kensington. That is all I know of him. He was sitting in a coffee house opposite me; he seemed in a stupid condition, and I did not think it was worth while his getting into trouble for a few pennies, so I paid for him. I have been told 15s. was found upon him. He knew I had a shilling as I had 1s. 3d. change out of a 2s. piece at the coffee house. I understood he was a man of good character or I should not have spoken to him. I have an interest in the garage, keep the books, and am in charge of the premises; I used to live there; there were others to see to the place as well as myself.

Re-examined. I did not sign the charge-sheet at the police station because the prisoner tore my finger nearly to the bone with the chain of the bag, so that I could not write at all—in fact, I am nervous now from the injury.

Police-constable DEACON, 99 L. On September 12, at 12.30 p.m., I was passing through the Green Park with my wife, being off duty and in plain clothes, when I saw the prisoner and prosecutrix together in conversation, and I saw prisoner snatch at a handbag which the prosecutrix was carrying. Failing to get the bag away be struck her with his fist and knocked her over the low railing which separates the footpath from the grass; he then put his foot upon her breast to hold her down and tugged at the bag which she was holding; eventually the chain broke and he got the bag away; he kicked her, placed the bag under his coat and went off towards the Wellington Arch. I climbed the railing, which was about 6 ft. high, followed and caught him. I said, "I am a police officer; I want that bag which you have just taken from that woman." He said, "You are no police officer," using a foul expression, "you cannot take me." I eventually overpowered him; he was violent; he had evidently been drinking. My wife went out into the roadway near Hyde Park Corner and fetched a uniformed officer, and we together took him to Vine Street Police Station. He threw himself on the ground twice on the way. Prosecutrix said, "I met him this morning in a coffee house off Victoria

Street; he told me he had no money and I paid for some food for him; we then walked together in the Green Park as I thought as he had been drinking he would come round a bit, and he then asked me for money. Because I refused him this is what he has done."—pointing to her finger, which was badly cut by his tearing the chain of the bag through her fingers. She was badly shaken and the doctor was called to see her. Prisoner was searched, and there was found upon him 10s. gold, 6s. 6d. silver, 8 1/2 d. bronze, and a watch and chain. In prosecutor's bag was a small purse containing 1s. silver and 1 1/4 d. bronze. Prisoner made no reply to the charge. There were two young women passing when the occurrence took place whose addresses were taken. I saw the whole thing.

Cross-examined. There was nothing to indicate I was a police officer. I was about 6 ft. from the prisoner and prosecutrix. At the moment there were two girls about 50 yds. off; no other people were passing. I saw prisoner knock prosecutrix down by a blow in the mouth, put his foot upon her breast, and hold her down, her back being across the low railing. When examined prosecutrix had marks upon her—the doctor's certificate is attached to the charge-sheet; he is not subpoenaed here as he did not give evidence at the police court. The police constable was about 200 yds. stationed outside the park; he is not here; he saw nothing of the assault; he simply showed me the way as I am not familiar with the district; I am stationed at Lambeth. The two girls are not here; they offered to attend at the time and I thought they were both following; they both shouted "Police!" "Murder!" and other things. Prisoner was not drunk; he had been drinking; he had possibly for two or three days been having a drinking bout. Prosecutrix had not been drinking. Detective-sergeant Dawson, A Division, has made inquiries into prisoner's character—he is here. I believe prisoner was in the army 21 years, has a good discharge, and has never been charged with any offence before.

Re-examined. I had no difficulty in seeing the occurrence. Prisoner was quite able to walk straight—he gave us a great deal of trouble.

Detective-sergeant FRED DAWSON, A Division, Cannon Row. I have made inquiries about the prisoner, and find that he has been 21 years is the Connaught Rangers, and is now drawing a pension of £4 11 s. a quarter; he came out with a very good discharge paper three or four years ago. He has also a banking account at the Charing Cross Bank with £30 deposited and £40 in the Post Office Savings Bank, which he has been partly living on since he has been out of the army. He was six months in a situation in Highbury Park as an indoor servant; he left there with a good character; has been doing odd work at different places as indoor servant; he has a very good character with his landlord, but he is rather addicted to drink when he draws his pension. There is nothing known against him by the police.

Prisoner's statement before Magistrate: "I want you to deal with it, sir; I will be quite satisfied, sir, if you deal with it."


THOMAS MAHONEY (prisoner, on oath). Sergeant Dawson's evidence is quite correct I met prosecutrix about last April, and have seen her dozens of times since. I went home with her for a night and paid her—that is how I came to know her. On this occasion I met her in Victoria Street at eight p.m., on September 11, and I was in her company until the time we were in the park the next day. We went to the Corporation lodging-house; I paid her 5s.; in the morning I gave her breakfast, and we both had two glasses of whisky. We then went into the park. At about 10.30 a.m. I was leaving her. She said, "You are not going away like that—lend me something before you go." I gave her 1s. to get her a glass of beer. I never saw the police constables until I saw them in the police station; Deacon is not the man who arrested me at all; it was Police-constable 345 A who arrested me. I was walking in the direction of Brompton Road when Police-constable 345 A came up to me and said, "You answer the description, and I am sent out from the barracks to take you into custody." I was quite sober. I went quietly to the station at 12.30 p.m. and was charged. After searching me they took me in front of the magistrate at Bow Street, and I was remanded at 12.55. I had done nothing. I did not tell this story to the magistrate—I did not know what the woman was saying. I was perfectly sober. Two witnesses were-Examined. The magistrate asked me what I had to say to it. I told him I could not say anything to it. I was confused being taken up for such a crime as that. The whole story told by prosecutrix and Deacon is untrue. If this constable saw me kicking and jumping on her, why did not he take her to the hospital and get a doctor's certificate for her? I never stole her bag no more than you did—I would not be guilty of the like of that.

BELLA MACDONALD , recalled. There is no truth whatever in what the prisoner has said—he is a wicked, lying scoundrel; my relations with him have been perfectly honourable; he never bought me anything in his life; he is unfit to live; it is a disgrace to hear him talk like that.

The Recorder adjourned the case for the attendance of the uniformed officer.

(Friday, October 23.)

Police-constable ARTHUR BROWN, 345 A. On September 12, at 12.10 p.m., I was on duty in Wellington Place, Hyde Park Corner, when a lady, not the prosecutrix, made a communication to me. I proceeded into the Green Park and saw the prisoner detained by an officer in plain clothes—Police-constable Deacon, 99 L—who stated that prisoner had snatched a lady's purse, and would I see him to the police station. Prisoner said nothing. We took him to Vine Street Station, and on the way he twice threw himself on the ground in Piccadilly. It required both of us to take him. He had been drinking but was not drunk. Prosecutrix came to Vine Street with us. She

charged him to the inspector with robbery with violence. The charge was read to prisoner, who made no reply. He was then looked up and taken before the magistrate.

Inspector HENRY BARNICOTT, C Division. On September 12, at 12.40 p.m., I was in charge of Vine Street Police Station when the prisoner was brought in by Police-constables Deacon, 99 L, and Brown, 345 A, accompanied by prosecutrix, who charged him with assaulting and robbing her of a handbag and contents in the Green Park. After taking the verbal statement from the prosecutrix and the police constables, I said, "You will be charged with robbing this lady with violence." He said, "You cannot call it robbery; it is only a snatch after all." He was put in the dock, charged, and made no reply when I read the charge over to him. I was not present before the magistrate.

Police-constable DEACON, recalled. I saw prisoner snatch the bag. I followed him and took the bag (produced) from him.

Verdict, Guilty.

Sergeant DAWSON. I have made inquiries as to prisoner's movements. On September 11, at six p.m., he came home drunk to his lodgings, 16, Berwick Street, Pimlico, where he occupies a room, went to bed at once, and went out at 4.30 a.m. the next morning; he was in the habit of going out early when in drink so that he would not be seen by his landlord. The landlord got up at five a.m., and found he had gone; his wife was sleeping in the next room to the prisoner, and heard prisoner take the chain off the door at 4.30 a.m. Prisoner is not a very heavy drinker; it is only when he is out of employment and when he draws his pension.

The Recorder, in sentencing prisoner to 18 months' hard labour, said prisoner had deliberately committed perjury, thinking the further witnesses could not be called; he had made the most odious imputation against the prosecutrix which was proved to be absolutely untrue; but for prisoner's good character a much more serious sentence would have been passed.


(Thursday, October 22.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-43
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

BOON, Joseph (33, flower seller), and COOMBES, Joseph (22, shoemaker) ; both uttering counterfeit coin twice in one day.

Mr. W. H. Sands prosecuted; Mr. Temple Martin defended.

EDITH SMITH , barmaid at the "Half Moon" Hotel, Herne Hill. On the afternoon of September 15 Coombes came in at about 20 minutes to four and asked for a glass of ale and a screw of tobacco, costing 2d. He put down what appeared to be a 2s. piece, and I gave him 1s. 10d. change. I put the 2s. piece into the till. He drank his beer and went away. The coin produced is the one he gave me; it

is dated 1907. I had taken no other 2s. piece that afternoon. My attention was called to it because it was bright. I have seen prisoner Boon in the house several times.

Cross-examined. I had not seen Boon in the house that day. The "Half Moon" is a large house and was rebuilt some years ago. There are six bars. Coombes came into what I call the front bar, or public bar. The bar is quite open and there are no screens round it. It is not my custom to serve in that bar, but on this particular afternoon the man who attends to it was putting up a mirror in the saloon. I usually serve in the saloon bar. I cannot tell how many customers I served that day. The house is just opposite the Herne Hill Railway Station. It is on the road to the London and County Cricket Ground at Sydenham. There was no football match on that day. I was serving from half-past eight in the morning till half-past five at night, with an interval of 20 minutes or so for lunch. We are never busy in the afternoon. I may have taken other 2s. pieces that afternoon but not in the front bar. I fix the time at which I took the coin by the fact that I had to call one of the young ladies from her rest time. I did not notice anything about the coin until the manager spoke to me about it at night. I had no suspicion about it at the time or I should not have taken it. I may served perhaps 100 customers in a day. I remember serving Coombes with the tobacco and beer because he was the only man I served in that bar. I identified him the same night at Brixton Police Station. The change I gave him was 1s., 6d., and 4d. in copper. I do not know that Coombes does not smoke. I do not know that no coppers or sixpences were found on him when he was arrested directly afterwards. The till is not in a drawer but is a cash register. I could not tell the number of florins it contained as the change is not takes from the same drawer. I was not present when the manager opened the till at six o'clock.

JOHN THOMAS JONES , barman at the "Half Moon." I was serving in the front bar on September 15 from about two o'clock in the afternoon until six o'clock. I asked last witness to go and serve a customer. I had examined the cash register before two o'clock. It then contained a few shillings and sixpences and some coppers, no half-crowns or 2s. pieces. I took two 2s. pieces during the afternoon, old Queen Victoria florins. I was not present when the till was examined.

Cross-examined. I could not say how many I served during the afternoon. I could not say how much money was taken in that time; probably not more than half a sovereign, so that if I served 40 customers they could not have averaged more than 3d. each. When I was away from the bar, about 3.45, I was hanging a mirror in the saloon for Miss Smith. I should not mistake the coin produced for a good one. I did not notice the coin, though I was going backwards and forwards to the till during the afternoon. My attention was not called to it.

GEORGE THOMAS MILLS , manager of the "Half Moon." About six o'clock in the evening of September 15 Detective-sergeant Hawkins

came in to see me. In consequence of what he said I went to the till in the front bar and examined it with him. I found in it the bad florin produced and two Queen Victoria florins.

Cross-examined. There are separate receptacles for shillings, sixpences, florins, and half-crowns, and a drawer to put gold in. I cannot say how much money there was in the till; there may have been 35s. with coppers. Any of the money in the till might have passed out as change.

DAVID TORR , barman at the "Commercial Hotel," Herne Hill. The "Commercial" is, I should say, about 150 yards from the "Half Moon." It is not so large as the "Half Moon." I was serving in the bar on September 15, at a quarter to five. The two prisoners came in. Boon asked for a shandy ale and a shandy bitter (shandy gaff) which came to 2 1/2 d., and tendered a counterfeit 2s. piece. As soon as I picked it up I saw it was counterfeit. I scratched it with a shilling and found it was soft. I handed it to my manager, who bent it. I told prisoners it was counterfeit. Boon said, "Is it a 'dud?" He did not say it in any surprised manner whatever. They asked for it back, but the manager said he was going to keep it. The manager then went round to the front of the house, and said, "Who is going to pay for these drinks?" Boon said, "Oh, I will," and took a half-crown from his waistcoat pocket and I gave him his change. Boon asked for the 2s. piece, but the manager told him he would have to wait. Coombes then said, "This is all right. I just met him and he asked me to have a drink, and I get into this trouble." Coombes offered to go and fetch a policeman, but he did not go, Just when he set out he turned round to Boon, and said, "Ask him for the 2s. piece back or else make him give you a receipt for it." They waited for 10 minutes or a quarter of an hour, but the policeman did not come. The manager remained at the door. Coombes said to Boon, "Well, take his (manager's) name and address." Boon said, "I will," and he went outside, Coombes stopping in the bar for a minute or so and then following. Boon stood at the front door with a paper and pencil and I could see them talking together. The manager remained with them all the time.

Cross-examined. I said at the police court: "After speaking to the manager they said they wanted to see a constable and get a receipt for the coin. They waited for one quarter of an hour." Prisoners to my knowledge made no attempt to get away, but, of course, I was in the house all the time. I do not know that Coombes went to the corner under the railway arch to look for a policeman. There is usually a policeman on point duty by the arch. On this occasion we were informed that he had, with two other constables, just taken a charge to the station. The point is in Railton Road, just opposite Herne Hill Station. A drayman was sent for a policeman but came back and said he could not find one.

CHARLES EDWARD GOODY , manager, "Commercial Hotel." I was serving in the saloon bar on September 15 when my barman brought me a coin which I found to be a bad one. I went round into the front bar where prisoners were. I asked, "Are you going to pay

for these drinks?" Boon put his hand in his pocket and threw down a half-crown. I went to the door and told a drayman who had just been delivering some beer to fetch a constable. I am sure prisoners could hear what I said. Having given orders to the drayman I remained standing in the doorway. There is no other exit from the bar. Coombes told Boon to go and get a receipt for his money. I said, "The policeman will give you a receipt for your money when he arrives." The drayman returned and in hearing of prisoners said he could not find a constable anywhere. As I would not give them a receipt for the money they went outside to take down the name of the house and Boon made out to be writing. Boon slipped out while I was talking to the drayman. Coombes afterwards came out and they stood talking 3 ft. or 4 ft. from the house. Coombes went towards Brockwell Park and said he was going to fetch a policeman himself. Boon went towards the passage running at the back of the houses leading towards Brixton. He stood there for some minutes, Coombes being a little way down the road. On Boon's seeing Coombes they walked towards one another again. After talking together a couple of minutes Boon made off towards Brixton again. Coombes then came towards me and was arguing with me about the matter four or five minutes. "It is a nice thing," he said. "Somebody asked me to have a drink and then passes a 'dud' coin. I do not know the fellow. He asked me to have a drink with him." He made off and I followed and as I was going down the road I met a constable. I showed him the coin and we went down and found prisoners in the "Britannia" beerhouse, Railton Road, about three minutes' walk from my place. I gave them into custody.

Cross-examined. I cannot see the entrance to the "Britannia" from my house. I do not know what change was given to Boon for the half-crown. I think there were two separate shillings. I did not hear Coombes say when he came back that there was no policeman at the point because he with others was removing a charge to the station. Motor-'buses pass my place but not trams, going to Vauxhall, Victoria, and Norwood.

Police-constable FREDERICK BRISTOW, 660 W. I was going on the point at Railton Road at a quarter past five on September 15. I had been engaged in helping to convey a prisoner to Brixton Station. Mr. Goody spoke to me and afterwards pointed out prisoners in the "Britannia" beerhouse. He said, "Those are the two men who passed the counterfeit coin." I told them the charge, and Coombes said, "All right, governor, we will come quiet enough." I searched them at the station. On Boon I found 3s. 3 1/2 d. in good money and 3s. good money on Coombes. Mr. Goody gave me a counterfeit coin which I handed over to Sergeant Hawkins.

Cross-examined. Coombes did not say on the way to the station, "I told them to go and fetch a policeman." I did not find any coppers on Coombes nor a sixpence. No pipe or tobacco was found on him.

Detective-sergeant HAWKINS, W Division. I went to the "Half Moon" at six o'clock on September 15 and received the first coin produced from Mr. Mills. At the station prisoners were put up for

identification and Miss Smith picked out prisoner Coombes from amongst eight other men without the least hesitation. The identification took place in the usual way. She also identified Boon as having seen him. I charged prisoners with uttering a counterfeit florin at the "Half Moon public-house with intent to cheat and defraud Mr. Whitmore; also with uttering a counterfeit florin at the "Commercial" with intent to cheat and defraud Mr. Comber. Boon said, "The 'Half Moon' we have not been in. I asked this man (Coombes) if he would come and have a drink. He said he would have shandy ale and I said I would have shandy bitter. I put 2s. down to pay for the drinks. Then the barman took the 2s. up and took it to the governor, and said it was a wrong one, and I said it was hard cheese for me to be a loser by it. I gave him a half-crown in payment of the drinks and the governor of the house stood in the doorway and sent for a policeman. After waiting 20 minutes I sent my friend for one and after five minutes he returned alone." Coombes said, "I did not know Boon had a bad coin at all, and after waiting 10 minutes or 15 minutes, he said, 'You fetch a policeman.' After looking round I returned and told him there was not one there. Boon then said, 'We will get towards home'; and I stood talking to the governor time enough for Boon to get down the road a little way. I caught him up and we went and had two half pints. I have not been in the 'Half Moon' for over six weeks, if not longer than that, and that woman who touched me I have never seen in my life." Notice of further evidence has been given since the hearing before the magistrate.

Cross-examined. I had charge of the case from the first and sent round to see if bad money had been passed in the vicinity of Herne Hill. The 'Half Moon' was the only house at which bad money was found on that night to have been passed. The money at the "Britannia" was all right. No pipe or tobacco was found on Coombes and no 1s., 6d., or 4d. in bronze. Prisoners' names and addresses were taken at the station and were found to be correct. Both are in the Vauxhall neighbourhood and about a mile apart. Boon was in the employment of Messrs. Barrett (bottlers) for 17 years prior to the past 12 months. He was discharged for irregularities. I do not know that he has since been employed by the Distress Committee of the Streatham Union. As to Coombes, he has been charged and discharged, and there is no conviction against him. He has been the associate of counterfeit men for three years past, and I should say his character is bad. I should also say that Boon's character is bad. Lately Boon and Coombes have been associated.

WILLIAM HAWKINS , barman, "Bell" beerhouse, Wandsworth Road (additional evidence). On June 20 last I was serving in the bar late at night. Prisoners came in and asked for two drinks. Boon paid with the counterfeit 2s. piece produced. I identify it by a tooth mark upon it. I called his attention to it, and he said, "Well, if it is a bad one take it out of this; let me have that one back," and he tendered a shilling. I did not give him back the coin. I called my governor's attention to it.

Cross-examined. This statement was taken from me last Sunday. I do not know as a fact whether Boon at the station gave his right name and address.

Sergeant HAWKINS, recalled, stated that he read the statement of fresh evidence to prisoners. Coombes said, "I cannot read. Will you read it for me?" Witness did so, and Coombes then said, "That is where he (William Hawkins) have made a mistake. It was not a shilling but a half-crown he (Boon) paid for the drinks." When the matter was explained to Boon he said, "All right."

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER , Officer of the Mint. The florins passed at the "Half Moon" and "Commercial" are counterfeit and from the same mould. As to the counterfeit florin passed at the "Bell," I have every reason to believe it is from the same mould, but it has been so much knocked about I would not like to swear to it. It is of the same date, but not necessarily from the same mould.


JOSEPH BOON (prisoner, on oath). I have been living at 34, Hemans Street, Wandsworth Road. I have been living in the same street for 18 months, but not in the same house. For 17 years I was employed by Barrett's Bottling Company as carman. I left there because I lost a bit of time. I was put off, not discharged. I went round to see the manager and he said, "You are not discharged, but you will have to stand off for a while." Then, on account of slackness, there was nothing much going on, I applied to the Distress Committee for work and was there 11 weeks. Since then I have been buying flowers at Covent Garden to sell in the streets, or a bit of fish, or anything that would return a shilling. I should think it is about 14 months since I left Barrett's. I knew Coombes when he was at work there. I used to see him about when he was doing odd days as a carman for Alderman Howlett, coke contractor, Lambeth, and we used to drink together. With regard to September 15, about six o'clock in the morning I made my way over to Covent Garden Market to see what I could buy. I found nothing there that would suit me, so I went to a coffee house and had some coffee, and put down 2s. 6d. and received 2s. 4d. change. On the way home I spent 2d. for a glass of beer and bought a pennyworth of bacca. I left home again between two and three and went towards Herne Hill. I had a sister living there. I did not remember the house, but thought I should recognise it going by. What I thought looked like the house was empty, and her husband being a cab-driver I thought he might be standing on the rank at Herne Hill, and I met Coombes by Herne Hill Station about a quarter to five. After conversation I said to him, "Will you go and have a drink?" and we went into the "Commercial Hotel." In payment I put down a 2s. piece, and the barman, after testing it between his teeth, said, "You have got a bad 2s. piece." I said, "Well, that is hard cheese for me." With that, I do not know whether it was his manager or his governor, came round to the front bar and said, "Who is going to pay for these drinks?"

I said, "I will pay for them," and I put down a half-crown. I asked to look at the bad 2s. piece, and the manager said, "You will see that when the policeman comes." There were two brewers' drays outside and a drayman was sent for a policeman. He could not find one, so I said to Coombes, "You have a look and see if you can find one. I will wait here till you come back." Coombes came back and said he could not find one and said something about three policeman taking a bloke up who had been pinched. After waiting about 20 minutes altogether I said, "I am not going to wait any longer. Are you going towards home?" He said, "Why do not you get a receipt for it?" The manager would not let me see whether it was good or bad, and said I should get my receipt when the policeman came. When I went into the house I had a half-crown, a shilling, and a 2s. piece. When I had changed the half-crown I had three separate shillings and some coppers. While we were waiting at the "Commercial" we made no attempt to get away. I was not in the "Half Moon" that day at all. The last time I was in the "Half Moon" was when I was in the Norwood Road and used to take my van up there. I have not been in for 15 months. With regard to the happening at the "Bell," in June, I was there, but Coombes was not. I went in with a man who is a carman employed by a firm at Battersea. He used to go to Kingston three times a week and we used to have drinks backwards and forwards like. He was also a carman. When I passed the 2s. piece at the "Commercial" I had no idea it was a bad one. I think I must have received it at the coffee house in the morning, as it was there I got change.

Cross-examined. I know Herne Hill pretty well, and, in fact, most parts of London, being a carman. I cannot account for the two florins being from the same mould. I did not hear the drayman say that the policeman at the point was taking a charge to the station; I heard Coombes say it. I knew Coombes on June 20; the man I was with that day resembled Coombes, but there is no possibility of mistaking the two men. I sell mostly in Walworth and Wandsworth Road. I should have known the difference between bad and good coin if I had taken that amount of notice.

JOSEPH COOMBES (prisoner, on oath), 8, Vauxhall Walk, Lambeth. I was born and bred in this neighbourhood. I am a general dealer and sell in the streets. I have worked twice for Howlett, the coke contractor. I got to know Boon through him once giving me a pull up Brixton Hill with a load of coke. On September 15 I left home at three o'clock with 3s. I had 12s. in the house, stock money. I went first to Vauxhall. I then went up South Lambeth Road for a stroll, not feeling up to much. After going into the library in Wilcox Road I went towards Brixton, and afterwards found myself opposite Herne Hill Station. Before I met Boon I did not go into the "Half Moon" at all. It is not true that I bought beer and tobacco in that house, and received 1s., 6d., and 4d. in coppers change. I have left off smoking. When I was arrested the three shillings I had taken out were found on me, but no 6d., no coppers, and no tobacco or pipe. When I met Boon he said, "What cheer, how are you going on?

Have a drink?" I said, "I never went up to the market this morning." He said, "I went up but things are too dear." I cannot say I had ever been into the "Commercial" before. Boon put down a coin which the barman said was bad. (The remainder of prisoner's evidence was corroborative.)

Cross-examined. I was charged with my brother with uttering at Croydon. My brother was locked up but I was afterwards discharged.

Verdict: Both prisoners, Not guilty.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-44
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

COOPER, William (31 carman) ; unlawful possession of 20 pieces of false and counterfeit coin intended to represent shillings, knowing the same to be false and counterfeit, with intent to unlawfully utter the same.

Mr. Sands prosecuted.

Detective-sergeant HENRY GARRETT, City. At 10 minutes past six, on October 13, I was on duty with Inspector Hallam and Detective Dupe in New Bridge Street. I saw prisoner standing on the footway, and said to him, "I am a police officer and have reason to believe you have something in your possession you are not entitled to." He said, "I have." I then placed my hand in his right-hand waistcoat pocket and found a counterfeit shilling. I said to him. "In my opinion this is counterfeit." He said, "Here you are; you may as well have the lot." At the same time he placed his hand in his other waistcoat pocket and produced another 19 coins, which in my opinion are all counterfeit; 14 are dated 1902 and the remainder 1907. He was taken to the station and searched. Upon him were found a ladle, seven pieces of metal of various shapes, a file, a knife blade, a piece of bone, and a knife used for polishing purposes. He was asked to explain his possession of the pieces of metal, and said he picked them up in the street from time to time. When charged with having the coins in his possession with intent to utter them he made no reply.

Detective HENRY DUPE, City. I was at Bridewell when prisoner was detained there. He made a statement to the effect that a man named Wilmot or Williams told him to go to Old Street Corner, City Road, and there he would see a man named Joe Evans, from whom he would be able to get some coin. He went there, and Evans, who was a stranger to him, came up to him riding a bicycle. He paid him 3s. for the coins. Prisoner afterwards said he had heard that Evans lived at 18, Neale Street, St. Luke's, or Soho. On making inquiries I found there was no such street in either district. There is a Neale Street, Long Acre, but no such number as 18. Afterwards I went to a house in Battersea where prisoner had lodged. There I found two pieces of plaster of Paris, two pieces of copper wire which had been dipped in acid, a coil of copper wire, three pieces of antimony, and six pawntickets.

ELIZABETH STONE , 49, Lombard Road, Battersea. I know prisoner. I first saw him on the 6th of this month. He came to my house and took a furnished room. Another man lived with him who, prisoner said, was his brother. He gave the name of Graham and the rent was paid in advance. I handed Detective Dupe a packet of

things I found in the cupboard of the room occupied by prisoner and his companion. They had a fire in their room every day. I did not see them go away; they went without notice. In the oven I saw some white spots as if plaster of Paris had been baked there.

To Prisoner. The fire might have been for cooking purposes.

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER , Officer of the Mint, gave evidence that the coins were counterfeit and fairly good imitations. In a spoon produced was some white metal similar to that of which the coins are made. In the teeth of the file were particles of metal. The copper wire was used in plating and the antimony to produce the ringing quality, but if too much should be put into the mixture it would make the coins brittle.

Verdict, Guilty.

Inspector JAMES DALE, City, proved a number of previous convictions, and Sergeant GARRETT stated that four of the pawntickets found on prisoner related to bedclothing stolen from the lodgings of Mrs. Stone after the two men had resided there a week.

Sentence, Four years' penal servitude.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-45
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceMiscellaneous > sureties

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DRISCOLL, Edward (labourer) , pleaded guilty of wilful damage by smashing a plate glass window of the "Baynard Castle Hotel," Queen Victoria Street, the property of Caterers, Limited. Prisoner, it is stated, was formerly in the Royal Garrison Artillery and is now in the Army Reserve. He said he had come from Chelmsford to London in search of work and had not been in bed for four or five nights.

The Common Serjeant observed that people out of work elsewhere—every wastrel—came to London as if there was plenty of work here and, of course, went to the bad.

(Friday, October 23.)

It being stated that the Church Army were willing to look after prisoner and would report to the Court at the January Session next, or earlier if necessary, prisoner was released on his own recognisances in £10 to come up for judgment if called upon.


(Friday, October 23.)

na SIMS.
20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-46
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

SIMS (29, labourer) ; demanding with menaces certain goods, the moneys of Stephen Henry Bates and Charles Mudd.

Mr. J. Penry Oliver prosecuted.

Dr. STEPHEN HENRY BATES, 11, Archway Road, Highgate. I have no knowledge whatever of the prisoner. On September 30 I received a letter addressed to "Surgeon S. H. Bates," from Rowton House, Newington Butts, saying: "Sir,—If you do not send me £500 I will write to the newspapers all about the

illegal operations you perform and will be your ruin.... I will not trouble you any more if you send what I ask you; I will leave the country at once; so do not forget to send if you want to save all trouble.—G. Sims." I at once gave the letter to the police. On October 2 I received a further letter saying, "If you do not send me the money on Saturday I shall come to Highgate and do something to your place or to you; if I get the £500 I shall keep my mouth shut." I handed this letter also to the police.

Inspector FRANK WHITE, X Division. On October 3 I, with another officer, saw prisoner in Cornwall Road, Lambeth. I said, "We are police officers and shall arrest you for sending to Dr. Bates, of 11, Archway Road, Highgate, and a number of other persons, letters demanding money by menaces." He said, "I don't know anything about it." I took him to the station and there showed him the two letters and read them to him. I said, "These have been identified as being in your handwriting, and you will be charged." He said, "It's no use denying it; I did write them; I can't think what made me do it, but I can't help it; I have not lived at Rowton House; I put that address as I thought it would be a better place to receive replies; I have been there two or three times and looked at the list, but could not see any letters for me; I got the names and addresses from the directories." On being formally charged he made no reply. Detective JOHN HENDRY, C. I. D. I know prisoner, and have seen him write. To the best of my belief these two letters are in his writing.

To Prisoner. It was in Pentonville Prison that I saw you write.

Prisoner declined to go into the box or to make any statement.

Verdict, Guilty.

It was stated that there were other similar charges which would not now be pressed; several previous convictions were proved. The question had arisen whether prisoner was responsible for his actions, but a doctor who had examined him came to the conclusion that he was responsible.

Mr. Justice Bigham, remarking that this was an offence which must be put a stop to, sentenced prisoner to Seven years' penal servitude.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-47
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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BIRCH, Charles (25, labourer) ; demanding with menaces the sum of 2s. 6d., the moneys of Ernest Berridge Challis.

Mr. W.B. Campbell prosecuted.

In this case prosecutor, a deaf and dumb man, residing at Buckhurst Hill, met prisoner about three months ago in a urinal in Bow Road, and there indecent misconduct took place between them. Subsequently prisoner commenced a course of pestering prosecutor in the streets and demanding and receiving small sums. Eventually prisoner wrote letters threatening, unless he received certain payments, to expose prosecutor to his employers and ruin him. Prisoner said to the officer who arrested him, "I was out of work; that made me do it; it was that gentleman's (prosecutor's) fault; he got hold

of me in the urinal; I thought I would get money out of him by frightening him; I am sorry for it."

Verdict, Guilty. Prisoner confessed to a conviction at North London Police Court on December 9, 1904, of stealing a watch; nothing further was known against him.

Sentence, 12 months' hard labour.


(Friday, October 23.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-48
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded part guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentencesImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude

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RUTTER, Edgar Francis (46, agent), and HARCOURT, Reginald (40, clerk) ; both between April 30, 1908, and June 4, 1908, did fraudulently conspire and agree together by divers false pretences to obtain from such of His Majesty's liege subjects as should be induced by their advertisements and circulars to apply to them for loans of money, certain of their moneys and valuable securities and to cheat and defraud them thereof; and in pursuance of such conspiracy did unlawfully, by certain false pretences and with intent to defraud, obtain from Laurina Millie Robinson the sum of £3 3s.; from William Henry Foster the sum of £1 1s.; from Cecil Ernest Barrow a certain valuable security—to wit, a Post Office money order for the payment of the sum of £3 9s.; from Walter Veitch the sum of £2 2s.; from Everard Home Morgan the sum of £1 1s.; from Frank Hendey the sum of £1 1s.; from Adelaide Piddocke the sum of £2 2s.; on May 26, 1908, from Laurina Millie Robinson the sum of £3 3s.; on June 1, 1908, from William Henry Foster the sum of £1 1s.; on June 4, 1908, from Cecil Ernest Barrow a certain valuable security—to wit, a Post Office money order for the payment and value of £3 9s.; on May 21, 1908, from Walter Veitch the sum of £2 2s.; on April 30, 1908, from Everard Home Morgan the sum of £1 1s.; on June 2, 1908, from Frank Hendey, the sum of £1 1s.; on May 26, 1908, from Adelaide Piddocke the sum of £2 2s., in each case with intent to defraud. On May 9, 1908, being entrusted by the said Everard Home Morgan with certain property—to wit, the sum of £2 0s. 10d., in order that they might apply and pay the said property for a certain purpose—to wit, for the purpose of the payment of an insurance premium, did unlawfully and fraudulently convert the said property to their own use and benefit. Harcourt, forging and uttering the same, knowing to be forged, a promissory note for the payment of £425 on July 15, 1907; the endorsement on a banker's cheque for £120 on July 20, 1907; a promissory note for the payment of £140 on August 6, 1907; a deed of mortgage purporting to be a mortgage by Campion Watson of all his interest in his reversion under the will of the late Rev. John Campion on August 6, 1907; a certain deed purporting to be a deed of mortgage by Campion Watson to the Bedfordshire Loan Company of all his interest in the reversion aforesaid on August 12, 1907, and a certain deed purporting to be an assignment by Campion Watson of all his interest in the said reversion on September 16, 1907, in each case with intent to defraud.

Harcourt pleaded guilty to the separate indictment of forgery, etc.

Mr. Bodkin and Mr. Travers Humphreys prosecuted.

GEORGE INGLIS BOYLE , messenger at Bankruptcy Court. I produce the file in the bankruptcy of Edgar Francis Rutter, who was adjudicated on November 6, 1893, with liabilities £850 and no assets. He was described as a surveyor, land agent, and financial agent. An application for discharge was made on May 29, 1894, but suspended for two years. I also produce a file relating to the same person, who filed his own petition on August 30, 1900, described as a financial agent. He filed two statements of affairs, the amended one showing liabilities of £1,896 2s. 6d. and no assets. He has not applied for his discharge from that.

To prisoner Rutter. There was more than one creditor in the first bankruptcy; some were for money lent.

EVERARD HOME MORGAN , engineer, Richmond. Advertisement produced was seen by me, which says that the advertiser is no moneylender and that if an immediate advance is required it can be obtained at 5 per cent. per annum, with no repayment as long as interest is paid. In consequence of that advertisement, I called at 12, Edwardes Square, Kensington, the address given, where I saw both prisoners, and I asked for £200. Nothing was said about security. Rutter said that the best thing I could do was to take out a life policy for £200 and recommended the General Life Insurance Company. I understood the loan was to be made at once. The commission note produced was put before me by Harcourt to sign. I understood he was a kind of secretary to Rutter. He asked me for £1, for expenses, I think. The commission note authorises the raising of an advance of £200 and agreeing to pay 5 per cent., also stating that I had that day paid them one guinea. I really paid that next day to Harcourt. I went to the General Life Insurance Office in Waterloo Place and was examined by a doctor. I made a proposal for £200 and paid a quarter's premium, £2 0s. 10d. (Receipt produced, dated May 8.) I went to Edwardes Square the next day and saw Rutter, giving him the receipt at his request. He said that I should have the money that evening. He remarked that there was only one quarter paid, but said he could arrange it if I paid another quarter, to which I agreed and gave him £2 0s. 10d. He said that he gave it to the insurance people. I got no money in the evening Rutter told me he had not had time to look after the affair, but if I came round early in the morning they would be able to arrange it. I went next morning, but he had just gone off to the City. Har-court said I had better call at four in the afternoon, which I did, but Rutter never turned up. The servant said I had better wait till six in the evening. I went on for some days, then wrote a letter, to which I got the reply (produced), which is signed "E. Allsopp,"

saying that if I had not behaved in an extraordinary way when he was ill in bed he might have been able to arrange the business, but that he was ready to refund any money, although he should be out of pocket in doing so. I merely asked for the return of the money I had spent, or the £200. I knew E. Allsopp as Rutter. On May 21 I got another letter saying that he had been put to considerable trouble and expense, and that I had taken up the premium entirely on my own initiative and must settle with the assurance company; also saying that I had asked him not to pay in the £2 0s. 10d. until business had resulted and repeating that he was willing to refund the money; also reminding me that he had lent me a few shillings. Rutter did mention something about returning the £2 0s. 10d. if no business resulted. He had lent me 6s. one day after I had been waiting about all day and had not enough money to go home with. When I parted with my money I believed Rutter was a straight man. He never said anything to lead me to think the loan was coming from someone else. The statement that he was not a moneylender seemed to indicate that it would be straight business without heavy interest.

To Rutter. My name is not Murray Morgan. In 1889 I had a bill of sale, and in 1902 I was bankrupt, and have not yet got my discharge. I did not tell you that. The patent I offered as security did not belong to my trustee. You told me you would pay in the £2 0s. 10d. You were to hold it in hand till the loan was made. I called for my money several times. I had not borrowed money from anyone else at the time.

To Harcourt. I looked on you as Rutter's clerk or secretary. You never promised to get me any money.

Re-examined. When I called there was no reason given, such as Rutter now suggests, for not getting me the loan.

Mrs. LAURINA MILLIE ROBINSON, 7, Bloomsbury Mansions, Hart Street. In March last I received the circular (produced) from 12, Edwardes Square, Kensington (in much the same terms as the advertisement seen by last witness). It was signed "Edwin Allsopp." A month or two later I required some money and telephoned to the address stated in the circular and arranged for a meeting at my house. Harcourt came and I asked for £50. He looked at furniture and said, "Why not have £100?" I said that I did not require £100. He then said that his people did not care to lend less. I said that under the circumstances I should take £100. He said the reason the interest was so low was they had wealthy clients' money to invest. He asked three guineas for expenses. I said, "Surely that can be deducted from the loan"; but he said it was the rule of the office not to advance money unless the out-of-pockets had been prepaid. I paid the three guineas, and he wrote out a commission note which I signed, agreeing to pay 5 per cent. I could not read the commission note very well, because I was worried and Harcourt was playing the piano the whole time. He had been trying the piano when he looked at the furniture. It was arranged that I was to have the money on the Thursday or Friday without fail, May 28

or 29, from Mr. Allsopp. Harcourt said he was Allsopp's secretary, but did not give his name. On Thursday I got the letter produced, signed "H. Lewis." I had seen his advertisement in the "Telegraph," and I mentioned that fact to the prisoners. The letter is from 116, Regent Street, and says that Mr. Allsopp had mentioned that I wanted a loan and he (Lewis) would be glad to arrange same. I had seen Mr. Lewis's advertisements, but I did not know this was the same man till I called. After I had done so I telephoned to Allsopp. I think some woman answered and said that Allsopp was out. Later on I rang up and spoke to Harcourt, I think. I told him I had been to Lewis's, and that if I had known the loan was to be through them I would have gone to them before; I also demanded my money back. He said that Mr. Allsopp would call to see me. Next evening, on arriving home about five p.m., I saw Allsopp (whom I did not know then) asleep in the easy chair. My maid roused him after some trouble. He apologised and said that he had had a big deal and had had too much to drink. I said that I would not do any business with him till the three guineas was paid; then if he could prove he could do the business I might go on. He said he would send me a cheque that night. I told him the three guineas had been obtained under false pretences. He said he could carry the business through and that he did business with Mr. Lewis on commission. I telephoned on several occasions for the money. It was a woman who answered, and there was always an excuse made. On June 5 I consulted a solicitor. After my solicitor had communicated with prisoners I got a telegram: "Writing you to-night, Allsopp." I telephoned prisoners, and made a note of what I said, as follows: "My solicitor is here and I have shown him your telegram. He has prepared information and I am to meet him at Bow Street at 10.30 to swear to it and obtain a warrant for your arrest." I got no answer to that. On the next morning Allsopp came and said he was sorry for all the trouble, that he had not had the money I had paid, but he would repay me. He led me to presume Harcourt had had it. He asked me to take a guinea on account and he would repay the balance later in the day, between four and five. He said he was lunching with his wife at the Holborn. I waited in but he did not come. That morning Rutter seemed much the same in health. I think he was sober. Next day I applied for a summons. When I parted with my money I thought Allsopp was the man who had the money to lend.

To Rutter. The commission note which I signed was made out to you. I do not know the rules of moneylenders, so I thought the money was coming from you. I do not remember that you told me you were a lender. I told you I was willing to have a bill of sale if necessary. I think you told me it was a prejudicial thing to do. I told you I had a maintenance order against my husband and told you exactly his position. When I found you asleep in the chair you told me you had been ill and were under a doctor. You seemed to know what you were doing. I said I was satisfied when you paid me the guinea, on the understanding that you were going to bring

the rest within an hour. I do not think you told me that you would obtain the money. You did not tell me that perhaps Harcourt had taken the three guineas under a misapprehension, not having been in the business long. You said that you had not received the money. I did not suggest a bottle of whisky, but you asked if I had some, and I said "No."

To Harcourt. I do not remember you telling me it was inadvisable to have a bill of sale. You told me it would have to be registered and you said an inventory of the furniture could be taken later; that they would take your word for it. I showed you two pass books representing my banking accounts. You said you thought Allsopp would negotiate the loan on the face of that. I was so confused I did not really know what you were going to do except that you were going to let me have the money on Thursday or Friday. You did not interfere with my perusing the commission note except in your piano playing, which was sufficient to make me not realise what I was doing. I think you played the piano for that purpose. You asked me to read the note before I signed it. There was some-thing said at the police court about me having a gramophone record of what took place. One reason it has not been produced is that it was not mine; it had to be sent back. I did not use the gramophone record as a threat. I told you the record had been taken, and so it had. I said that I could produce the record; so I could at the time. I did not add your name to the information; I included you both at the same time. I said at the police court, "I received no letter from Harcourt and had no intention of applying for a warrant against him until Rutter said he received no money." That is right. I knew Rutter had the commission note; I understood you handed it to him. I thought it was strange that Rutter should know nothing about the three guineas.

CECIL ERNEST BARROW , Tiverton, Devon. In May last I received the letter produced (similar to that received by last witness), in consequence of which I wrote to Mr. Allsopp and received a reply dated May 22 asking for particulars of my business and income, etc. I replied again, and subsequently an appointment was made to see me at Tiverton. I had a further letter on June 3, which said that the writer would see me on Friday next and asked for his first-class fare and one guinea for the day's expenses. On receipt of that I wired £3 9s. to Allsopp at Edwardes Square. He never came and frequent excuses were made. I got a telegram saying he was ill, also a letter to that effect on June 6. That was signed for Allsopp by Harcourt. I then wrote to Allsopp demanding the return of my money, and eventually put the matter in the solicitor's hands, who got the money back. When I paid the £3 9s. I believed a genuine business was being carried on. I did not understand that Allsopp would advance the money personally; I did not know his name was Rutter.

To Rutter. The only letter referring to your illness which I recieved was the one of June 6. On that day somebody telephoned

saying that probably you were on your way to see me. I have asked other people to see me about lending money; they have not done so. One matter is not completed; I have had part of it. I was at that time ascertaining the terms upon which a loan could be obtained. A friend of mine was to be joint borrower with me. I know nothing about anyone refusing to back bills for me.

To Harcourt. I only had one letter in your writing. I had no knowledge of you otherwise.

WILLIAM HENRY FOSTER , 27, Terminus Road, Brighton, brewer. In the beginning of April last I saw an advertisement in the "Daily Telegraph," in consequence of which I wrote to Allsopp, 12, Edwardes Square, and received a reply. After further communications I went to that address and saw Harcourt on May 29. I told him I wanted £220. He said it would be necessary to insure for £400, and mentioned the General Insurance Office, saying the secretary was a personal friend of his and would be able to get the matter through quickly. I told him my income was about £4 a week from the firm I was going with. He wanted a letter from them giving my salary, and I promised it should be sent. I wanted the money to put into this firm. I was examined by the insurance doctor. I afterwards saw Harcourt at Edwardes Square, taking with me the letter from my firm. He said it was a very good case and he would get it through at once. I never saw Allsopp. I paid the guinea commission as per the commission note produced, which I signed, agreeing to pay 5 per cent. (as in the previous witnesses' cases). Harcourt said they could not proceed without the guinea. An appointment was made for June 4 with his client who was to find the money. On that day I saw Harcourt, but his client did not turn up. On the next day I paid the premium on the insurance, £13 17s. 4d., and wrote to Harcourt asking him to settle as quickly as possible. I also telephoned twice to him, but was not able to make an appointment. About a fortnight later I called at 12, Edwardes Square, but found an empty house. I asked Harcourt the first time I saw him if he was Allsopp. He said he was manager or representative, I am not sure which. When I parted with the money I believed it was a genuine business.

To Rutter. I have never seen you at all. The security I was going to give was shares in the company I was going into. I could not tell you if they were paying a dividend. I understood you had to obtain the money from somebody else. I was in the berth at that time, but am not with that firm now, as I did not find the money.

To Harcourt: You asked me, first of all, what my income would be. I do not know that you gave me any reason for insuring in the General. I was going into the firm as a traveller, with £1 a week and £3 or £4 commission. I wanted the loan for two years. I did not think that you were Allsopp, nor did I think you were acting on your own initiative. You said that Mr. Read, the secretary of the General, being a personal friend, would get the matter through in three or four days. You mentioned the word "client" when I saw

you on the day of my appointment; whether your client or Mr. Allsopp's I do not know. (To Rutter.) I wrote to you several times after I found the empty house and also wired.

Re-examined. I stayed with the firm mentioned for about a month.

ALFRED WILLIAM READ , West-End Manager to the General life Insurance Company, 1, Waterloo Place. I have known Rutter for some years. He would call himself a mortgage broker or insurance broker, I suppose. I also knew him as Allsopp and at Brighton as Edwards, I think, living privately. As Allsopp he had offices in Carlton Chambers and called himself a financier. I did not know him as of 12, Edwardes Square. We have been established about 70 years. The head office is in Cannon Street. I know Harcourt as Campion Watson, but not as of any business. We had dealings with him as Har-court, but never saw him. On premiums paid a commission is paid to the introducer of 30s. per cent. on the first year; that is called a commuted commission, and we pay nothing further. A premium was paid on the policy of a Mr. Foster of £13 17s. 4d., being for the first year on £400. That was introduced under the name of Harcourt. We have a receipt signed by Harcourt, but I have not it here. I have not been asked to produce it. £6 commission was paid on that, by cheque, to Harcourt. I have not got the cheque here. On May 8 £2 0s. 10d. was paid on the policy of Mr. Everard Home Morgan, 15s. commission being sent to Harcourt. That was a quarter's premium. If another quarter's premium were paid there would be another 15s. commission.

(Saturday, October 24.)

WALTER VEITCH , art metal worker, 53, South Moulton Street. On May 20 I saw the advertisement in the "Daily Telegraph," and wrote on the same day stating that I wished to obtain a loan of £1,000 until December in order to pay off part of an overdraft otherwise secured at my bank, and to enable me to shut down my business in London. I added that I was unable to give security at present, but could do so in about two months, and that in the meanwhile I could give a good reference. By way of answer I received a telephone message making an appointment, and next day I went to 12, Edwardes Square, where I saw both prisoners. Rutter gave me his name as Allsopp. I told them I had come to them because I did not want to go to a moneylender. I gave them an account of my financial position, what property I had, what I expected, and all the rest of it. Allsopp (Rutter) said he would no doubt be able to do what I wanted, i. e., get me the £1,000, at a low rate, but he did not mention any particular rate, not exceeding 5 per cent. Particulars of my position, what I wanted, and all the rest of it were put down in writing by Harcourt as in Exhibit 16. "Walter Veitch. Rent at 53, South Moulton Street, £150. Bankers—Wants £100 at once. Balance in about a week. Has expectations from mother. Has £1,000 of stock deposited with bank against overdraft. Mother in Italy. Will guarantee payment on return of mother." I signed a

commission note authorising the raising of the loan and agreeing to pay Allsopp a commission of 5 per cent. on any sum he might obtain, and the note concluded: "I have this day paid you the sum of £2 2s. to cover your out-of-pocket expenses in and about the said matter." The two guineas were not paid at the time. They afterwards called upon me. Harcourt came in, but I saw Rutter outside in a taxicab. At the interview in Edwardes Square Harcourt asked me if my life was insured. I said it was not. He asked me if I would insure my life. I said, "Yes," and he gave me a form and I filled it up for £1,100, the company being the General Insurance Company. I saw the doctor at his address, and the proposal was accepted, and I paid a year's premium, £26 12s. 7d. I sent the receipt on to Rutter the same day that I paid. I did not get any money from prisoners. I was expecting an immediate advance of £100 or £200. It was set out in the commission note that I was to have £100 at once. I expected to have the balance of the £1,000 in about a week. After I had filled in the receipt and effected the insurance I had done all they wanted. I did not get the £100 nor indeed any money at all. I telephoned to them and I think I wrote also. I did not call. Rutter (Allsopp) said on the telephone he would come round and would no doubt be able to arrange it. He did come round and took me to Lewis's in Regent Street. I cannot give the date, but it was on a Saturday shortly after the insurance was effected. Lewis is a moneylender. I cannot tell exactly what I said to Rutter about it, but I wrote to him. He had frightened me by taking me there. I was not going to have anything to do with moneylenders, and he had assured me they had nothing to do with the transaction I was going to carry out. I found at the interview with Lewis that he had evidently been informed by Rutter all about my affairs, and told me he could not do anything because I had a bill of sale. Then Rutter offered to go round to my bank to say he was going to advance me money the next week, but I did not take him there because I resented having been taken to Lewis, the very thing I wanted to avoid being moneylenders. Rutter gave me to understand that this loan would still be carried out through a different party altogether, and would be on the terms that had been arranged. I never saw prisoners again. I did not get my money back and did not ask for it. The two guineas was not to be returned in any event. The insurance is still subsisting, and I am fully insured until May 8, 1909. I had previously been thinking about insuring but had not made up my mind. When I parted with my money I believed that a genuine business was being carried on. Prisoners did not tell me they were getting a commission on the insurance.

To Rutter. You never told me you were going to lend me any money yourself. I told you I had a business in South Molton Street upon which I had expended a large sum of money and that my mother was in a very good position and could guarantee an advance. You told me that on these facts you could obtain the £1,000 I required. You told me that if I wanted a small sum down I should have to pay a heavier price. In the commission note I signed was

the statement: "I have not applied for or obtained an advance from any other person." I did not go quite willingly to Lewis's. I should not have gone there if I had known where you were taking me. I did not tell Lewis that I had given a bill of sale three days before. I answered the advertisement. I told him I had had money from my solicitor. I know now the effect of a bill of sale; I did not when I gave it. I did not tell you that my own solicitor would not advance me £103 without having a bill of sale over the whole of my effects. When I came downstairs from Lewis's I was disappointed, not because I could not get the money, but because I had been taken there. I got the money at once from another quarter; from a friend of mine. I told you I had had money from my solicitor. When I signed the statement, "I have not applied for or obtained an advance from any other person," I was signing what was not true. I had no object in suppressing the bill of sale. I agree it is not a fair thing to go to an agent and ask him to get money for me and suppress the facts. With regard to the insurance policy, I told you I should have insured my life apart from this. You did not tell one after the loan was refused to still take out the policy. After I had paid the premium I did not see you again. I effected the insurance because I was asked by you to do so. You insisted on the necessity of getting it done at once in order that I should get the money. You told me you were going to lend me the money the following week. You did not tell me when you came downstairs at Lewis's that it was rather silly to deceive a man who was working for you. I do not think I did deceive you. I told you I had had money from my solicitor. At the time I signed the statement that I had never borrowed or had a loan of any kind I had given a bill of sale. You may possibly have said that a bill of sale was the most fatal thing I could have, as it absolutely ruined one's credit. You did not tell me it would be plenty of time for me to effect the policy when you had the money ready for me. You did not tell me you would have to go round and call at perhaps eight or nine different places.

The Recorder pointed out that that was not in accordance with terms of prisoners advertisement, which commenced, "I am not a moneylender.

Further cross-examined. I am quite satisfied with the office I am insured in.

To Harcourt. During these transactions I had no dealings with you apart from Rutter. You never guaranteed the loan personally. I understood you were Rutter's clerk or secretary.

Reexamined. I received no acknowledgment of the receipt from the insurance company. After that I wrote to Rutter asking him if he could do anything for me or not. Rutter did not come to see me at South Molton Street after I had sent him the receipt. The conversation about £100 to go on with was at the first interview.

ALFRED READ (General Insurance Company). A proposal for a policy in respect of Walter Veitch was received by our office on May

27. The first premium, amounting to £26 17s. 7d. was paid in cash, and the commission on the policy, £16 10s., was forwarded to Har-court by cheque on the same day.

RICHARD BEAVAN , L.R.C.P., Kensington, gave evidence that Mrs.Piddocke is suffering from disease of the inner ear, rendering her liable to attacks of giddiness and faintness and not in a fit condition to attend and give evidence. She had such an attack when attending to give evidence before the Grand Jury.

Sergeant MCEVOY, Metropolitan Police, proved the deposition taken from Mrs. Piddocke at Bow Street on August 24.

The deposition was then read. It set out that in May last the deponent, being in want of £800 to purchase a boarding house, saw an advertisement in the "Daily Telegraph." In consequence she wrote to 12, Edwardes Square setting out her requirements, and in reply received a letter dated May 21, signed "E. Allsopp," asking her to call, and adding, "as I always find a personal interview effects a great saving of time and expense, I have no doubt I can arrange what you require." On May 23 she called at Edwardes Square and saw Harcourt, who said he thought Allsopp (Rutter) could arrange the £800 and that the interest would be 5 per cent. At Harcourt's request she signed a document authorising the raising of the loan. He said she must pay £2 2s. for personal expenses and she promised a cheque for that amount which she afterwards forwarded. On May 25 or 26 she went to Edwardes Square and paid the £2 2s. in coin. She asked for a receipt, but Harcourt said it was unnecesssry as it would be in the agreement. Harcourt said the matter would be hurried through. She wrote several times, and on June 9 received the following letter signed "E. Allsopp": "Dear Madam,—I greatly regret that the holidays have disarranged business as everyone is out of town. I will, however, at once push your matter forward without delay." That was the last she heard of the business. She wrote again, but got no reply. When she parted with her two guineas she believed prisoners were carrying on a genuine business. Cross-examined by Rutter, Mrs. Piddocke said she never saw "Allsopp"; all her transactions were with Harcourt. She denied having said that she would be satisfied if any part of her two guineas were returned to her. The only security she offered were the premises which were to be obtained for her and the furniture they contained. She already had a house of furniture of her own and wanted to take a further business. In the first instance she was a voluntary witness, but afterwards attended on subpoena owing to illness. She had previously applied to the "Hearts of Oak" for a loan, but was sure that on that occasion she did not sign any commission note. When she signed the commission note she did not notice the statement that she had not applied for any other loan. If any services had been rendered her she would not have applied for the return of the two guineas. In answer to Harcourt, Mrs. Piddocke said that when he told her he was "Allsopp's" representative she thought prisoners were working together, and that he had an interest in the business.

Harcourt told her on one occasion that "Allsopp" was attending to the business. She expected to get a loan on the security of a twenty-eight years' lease of a house in Montagu Street.

FRANK HENDEY , builder, Belmont Road, Uxbridge. In May last a friend of mine, a baker, trading as Leonard Clear, wanted a loan of £150, and on May 20 I saw the advertisement in the "Daily Telegraph," and wrote on his behalf to "Mr. A.," 12, Edwardes Square, setting out the nature of the security Mr. Clear had to offer. This consisted of freehold premises and business at 112, High Street, Uxbridge, together with two horses, carts, and plant, stores, and stabling, subject to a charge of £1 per week to the wife of the late Mr. Spencer Clear (applicant's father), now over 70 years of age. On the following day I received from "Allsopp" a letter asking Mr. Clear to call by appointment. I wrote in reply that Mr. Clear being engaged in business could not very well spare time to call. In reply "Allsopp" wrote: "As it would be necessary for me to see Mr. Clear's place before doing anything in the matter I will run down and inspect it on receipt of my fee—viz., £1 1s.—and if everything is satisfactory I would arrange what he requires." On June 2 I sent the cheque for £1 1s. produced, payable to "Mr. G. Allsopp." It was endorsed and paid through the National Provincial Bank. I never received any acknowledgment of it. On June 13 I called at 12, Edwardes Square and found the house empty. There was no notice of change of address, such at "G. Allsopp has removed to larger and more extensive premises," or anything of that sort. I did not see the advertisement again after that.

To Rutter. I said at Bow Street I had no monetary interest in obtaining the money. I have since taken a bill of sale from Clear. Mr. Clear owed me £44 for work done. Since the Bow Street proceedings I have advanced him money to carry on his business. I said at Bow Street, "I did not expect to reap any benefit out of the loan." I should expect to be paid my account within three or four years. We always have to run long credits. I do not know whether or not Clear would have paid me out of the loan. Clear's real name is Pledger, but he trades as Clear. The name of Pledger is in the bill of sale. The business has been established about 12 years. If the money had been lent Pledger would, of course, have appeared in the security as Clear's real name.

EDWARD RESTALL , managing clerk to Messrs. Allen and Son, house and estate agents. My firm act for the landlord of No. 12, Edwardes Square, and that house was let to Mrs. Edgar Rutter in May, 1907, at £75 a year on a three years' agreement. At midsummer there was a sum of £9 7s. 6d. due for rent, that being the apportionment from the date of the taking to quarter day. An allowance of £7 was made off that for repairs, leaving £2 7s. 6d. due. That balance was paid in July. Since then no rent has been paid. We applied for payment more than once. Then we issued a writ and got judgment, put the writ in the hands of the sheriff, and got possession in June of this year. The agreement was from May 9 to March 15, 1910. Rutter

came to the office several times to make excuses. He said he was waiting to get commissions he was entitled to and when he got them in he would pay. He said if we would allow the judgment to stand he would pay £25 by a certain date and he sent us £10 by registered post, but we did not accept it, as it might have prejudiced our position and we waited to get back the house. It was not known to us when the house was let that he was holding himself out as a lender of money at 5 per cent., but we afterwards saw his advertisement in the papers. We had a reference to a financier in Regent Street—not Mr. Lewis, but a Mr. Lubbock.

To Rutter. I do not remember that when Mrs. Rutter took the house she said she expected a friend to come to live with her and pay part of the rent.

ALFRED READ , General Insurance Company, recalled. Between April 8 and June 13 of this year, 21 proposals for life insurance were submitted in the name of Harcourt, of which nine were taken up and premiums paid amounting to £102 13s., and the total amount of commissions paid was £60 15s.

To Rutter. It is not an uncommon thing for policies of insurance to be proposed through solicitors with the idea of a loan going through, and for the policies not to be taken up if the business is not concluded.

To Harcourt. Although the proposals were put forward in your name they might just as well have been in the names of Smith, Brown, Jones, or Robinson.

Detective-sergeant JOHN MCEVOY. On July 9 I obtained a warrant for the arrest of the two prisoners for defrauding Mrs. Robinson of £3. At that time I had personal knowledge of "E." or "G. Allsopp." There had been complaints. On July 14 I saw Harcourt in Prince's Square, Bayswater, told him who I was, and that I held the warrant. He said, "I cannot see what it has to do with me. I took the money of my chief, Mr. Allsopp. I was only his clerk. I thought Mrs. Robinson had her money back. Allsopp told me he had paid it all back. The business did not go through. I have left Rutter some time because he did not pay me. He owes me about £20 commission, not to speak of cheques for £11 which were dishonoured and I had to take up." I went to 67, Prince's Square, a large private house. Harcourt had an office there and the business purported to be that of a moneylenders' agent. He was understood to be in partnership with the man who had obtained the lease of the house, and they were advertising in the name of "F. Duke" There was no brass plate outside to indicate the nature of the business, took him to Paddington Station, where he produced two type-written sheets of paper. When I read the warrant to him he said. "I really cannot see what it has got to do with me." One of the typewritten sheets purports to show a list of moneys received from various "clients" as they are called, and included are the names of Veitch, Piddocke, Robinson, and others, and the items include the £16 10s.

which Mr. Read has spoken of as the amount of commission paid re Veitch. Carried out in a second column is an amount of £5 10s., one-third of £16 10s., as if the people were sharing in the proportions of two-thirds and one-third. The column headed, "Cash due to me, £10 16s. 4d.," totals £30 18s. 4d. The second typewrtiten document is apparently an account of cash received from May 15 to May 27. On the 26th I find the entry, "Robinson, cash, £3 3s." Against some of the amounts I find the word "returned" written, these amounts being described as cheques. As against "Cash due, £30 18s. 4d.," there is "Cash received, £23 2s. 5d.," leaving a balance due of £7 15s. 5d. The amount of the cheques against which the word "returned" is written is £11. Harcourt said with reference to these papers that he was getting one-third commission from Rutter and that these items showed the commission which was due to him. I afterwards went with other officers to 202, Palmerston Mansions, Kensington, where I saw Rutter and read to him the warrant. He said, "I thought that matter was settled. I paid Mrs. Robinson back a sovereign and promised to pay her back the rest as soon as I could. I left her on the best of terms. I cannot understand her doing that. I have not had one halfpenny out of it. It was Harcourt who did the business while I was ill. He was employed by me on commission, and I suppose I am responsible. I do not want him to take the blame." He was taken to the station. The premises are a flat in a large block of mansions. I found a letter from Mrs. Robinson and a commission note, the commission note of Foster, Veitch's documents, Mrs. Piddocke's exhibits, Hendey's letters from Uxbridge, including the request for the acknowledgment of the guinea. I know Harcourt's handwriting. Exhibit 5 is a letter written by him to Mrs. Robinson; Exhibit 9 a letter written by him to Mr. Foster, including the signature "E. Allsopp"; 12 is a letter written by him to Mr. Barrow, including the signature "E. Allsopp." Exhibit 14 is another letter written by Harcourt to Mr. Barrow, giving him the intelligence of "Mr. Allsopp's" illness on June 6. Exhibit 23 is a letter written by him to Mrs. Piddocke. Exhibit 27 is an acknowledgment of Hendy's letter; Exhibit 29 from "Allsopp" to Hendy is also in his writing. I am fairly well acquainted with Rutter's writing. The endorsement of Hendey's cheque certainly resembles it, but it is still more like Mrs. Rutter's. They both write very much the same. It is not Harcourt's. Rutter had no banking account with the National Provincial Bank, but Mrs. Rutter had in the name of Gladys Rutter. This particular cheque went through the account of a jeweller named Rayner. I found at Rutter's a small diary setting out the various moneys received from Morgan, Veitch, Piddocke, Robinson, Foster, Clear, and Barrow. There is a note under June 6, "£6 received re Foster." That is commission from the insurance office. "Returned to Mrs. Robinson £1 1s.," so that that guinea came out of the commission re Foster. Totalling up the amount in the book I find that £118 2s. has been received between April 9 and June 25 in what may be called "out-of-pocket fees." The amount of commissions from the insurance companies, including the

General, is £114 6s. 2d. in the same period. I found also a number of unpaid accounts for furniture and household goods, and County Court summonses for gas, telephones, coal, and clothing. I could find no account books showing that any advance had ever been made, or any entries showing the receipt of 5 per cent. per annum or any other percentage. I found a somewhat similar book at Harcourt's, more in the form of a ledger with names and dates and the amounts purporting to have been received opposite. In that book I found the names of Morgan, Veitch, Piddocke, Robinson, and Foster. In another part of the book was a list of the amounts received from insurance companies as commission. That amounted to £141 from March to June, 1908, and included Morgan £3 15s., Veitch £16 10s., and Foster £6.

Prisoner Rutter observed that a good deal of doubt seemed to be thrown on his illness, and asked if it would help him if he were to call his doctor.

Mr. Bodkin said that no doubt was thrown on the defendant's illness, but what the prosecution said was that on June 6 he was apparently at one place and he was not too ill to be able to leave the house.

Crossed-examined by Rutter. I see that commissions have been paid to you by moneylenders and by insurance companies. All the names of moneylenders that I have seen are those of professional moneylenders. In one case you received £20 from a certain lord for negotiating a loan for him through a firm of moneylenders; in addition, you had a commission from the moneylender.

Prisoner asked to hand up a list of persons to whom he had advanced money.

The Recorder said the question here was whether the representations prisoner made in the advertisement were true or not. He could not accept the list as proof of the fact that the money had been paid, but prisoner could call witnesses if he liked to prove that he did in fact carry on a genuine business as agent for persons desirous of advancing money.

To Harcourt. There were no entries in your ledger or diary in your handwriting; they are all apparently in Mrs. Rutter's. The figures in the diary were identical with those in the books so far as they showed the amounts of money received.

Inspector TAPPENDEN, who was called at Bow Street, was put into the box for cross-examination, but was asked no question.


Both prisoners declined to give evidence on oath.

(Monday, October 26.)

Prisoner Rutter read a long statement to the jury, commencing by observing that he was at a great disadvantage in addressing them, as, up to the last moment, he had thought he was going to be represented by counsel. He described the charges brought against him

as baseless and denied emphatically that he was guilty of them. His business he described as a confidential and difficult one, as people pressed for money did not always tell the truth. If he saw any reasonable prospect of the money coming back he made inquiries and then introduced his clients to those who advanced money. Reasonable security he regarded as expectations under a will, life interests, or property in actual possession and arranged for advances of capital, sometimes in conjunction with a life policy, sometimes without, the lowest rate of interest being 5 per cent. His commission of 5 per cent. was always paid when the money was advanced. He always told borrowers coming to him that he was not a moneylender, but was simply an agent, and he took a letter from them agreeing to the 5 per cent. commission, so that there should be no mistake on that point. If a borrower wished to borrow merely on his note of hand or on a risky security he took him at once to a moneylender, telling him he would have to pay more than 5 per cent. as a moneylender, of course, would charge interest in proportion to the risk. It was always to his advantage to get the loan through if possible. His time was valuable to him, and he had to spend a good deal of money in cab fares in running round to his friends and generally endeavouring to conclude things expeditiously and, therefore, if he thought there was any likelihood of business resulting he always asked the intending borrower for a fee to cover out-of-pocket expenses. Prisoner proceeded to deal seriatim with the seven charges preferred against him, and narrated his proceedings in connection with each. With regard to Morgan, he found on inquiry that his financial position was not such as he had been led to believe. Not only were there two bills of sale registered against him, but instead of being, as he had represented, absolutely solvent, he found he was an undischarged bankrupt. He put it to the jury whether it was a straightforward and honourable thing for a man attempting to borrow to conceal the fact that he was an undischarged bankrupt. Morgan paid a fee of a guinea and insured his life in the General Assurance Company. Mr. Morgan called at his house several times, and on one occasion, when he said he had not got his fare home, he gave him all the silver he had in his pocket, amounting to 7s. With regard to Mrs. Robinson, he did not see the lady in the first instance, but sent her a circular in consequence of a County Court judgment registered against her. She telephoned to Mr. Harcourt, who asked her to call, and she did so. She paid three guineas and the matter was left in Harcourt's hands. Mrs. Robinson misled them by stating that she had a private house and also an allowance from her husband, who was in a very good position. She had since admitted that was not the truth. He gave Mrs. Robinson a guinea back, and she expressed herself as perfectly satisfied, and they parted the best of friends. In her case he spent about £1 on taxicabs. He placed her matter before several clients, but was unable to get the money, because moneylenders will not lend money without security. When he left the address in Edwardes Square he gave notice to the Post Office and to the Telephone people, but, it being a private

house, he could not put notice of change of address on the door. Mr. Barrow asked him to obtain a loan and sent him his expenses to Tiverton, a journey of 151 miles, and he fully intended to go, but this occurred at a time when he was seriously unwell and could not do so. Barrow accordingly wrote asking for a return of the £3, and it was returned. With regard to Hendey, he complained that his action was misleading in not giving the real name of the borrower. The jury would appreciate as business men that in such a matter as borrowing money the information given could not be too explicit. For instance, the name of Clear might be irreproachable, while Pledger might have innumerable County Court judgments against him. Hendey also said he had no interest in the matter except as a friend, whereas it appeared that Pledger owed him £44, which he, no doubt, expected would be paid out of the loan. Mr. Veitch called and said he wished to obtain a permanent loan or, at any rate, a loan which would stand for a term of years. He was to pay 5 per cent. per annum on the loan and told prisoner something of his position. His mother, he said, was a very wealthy woman and would guarantee the repayment of the interest. Prisoner told him that if she would do to and he would insure his life there would be ample security and he thought he could arrange the matter for him. He signed a commission note agreeing to pay a commission of 5 per cent. on any loan that might be procured for him and paid two guineas to cover out-of-pocket expenses. Veitch afterward telephoned that he wanted £100 at once, and prisoner told him that as the notice was so short he would have to take him to a moneylender who would charge him rather heavy interest. Veitch said he did not mind that as the money would be worth any money to him, as it would enable him to pay his wages. Prisoner telephoned to Mr. Lewis, of Regent Street, giving him assurance of Veitch's position, and Lewis said he had better call with Mr. Veitch. It was then discovered that Veitch had given a bill of sale a few days previously to applying for the loan, and Veitch had now admitted that that was so. Mr. Lewis then pointed out that if Veitch's solicitor, who presumably was well acquainted with his position would not lend him £103 without damaging his position by taking a bill of sale, he could not see hiway to advance £100 on Veitch's promissory note. Veitch afterwards wrote and telephoned to prisoner several times, but he was so annoyed with him for his want of straight dealing in not disclosing the bill of sale and for having omitted to mention it when signing the commission note, which expressly stipulated that he had never borrowed or applied for a loan elsewhere, that he waited until such time as Veitch's mother should have returned before proceeding with the matter. He was not surprised to hear afterwards that Veitch had taken up his policy, as he had stated that he had for some time intended to insure his life, and Veitch had admitted that he was not urged by prisoner to pay the premium. With regard to mrs. Piddocke, he knew she had paid two guineas, and he thought her matter was being attended to by Harcourt. Letters were brought to him to sign, but if they dealt with matters in which he had not been

concerned he did not even read them. Foster was another client whom he never saw. Had he seen him he would have declined the matter, at probably Harcourt would have done if he had understood the facts of the case. Foster himself had told them that Harcourt having told him he would have to insure his life, he took out a policy of insurance of his own accord, no doubt thinking to expedite the advance by doing so. His security being insufficient, he was unable to obtain any loan, although prisoner did his best to obtain one. These were all the people who had given evidence against him. None of them was able to prove that they had been urged to pay their premiums by any representations made by prisoners. In each case they were told that if they went to be examined by a doctor and their lives were accepted it would save time provided prisoners were able to get the money for them. They paid their premiums of their own initiative, of their own free will, and the premiums were in no way increased by the fact that commissions on the insurance was going to be paid. It was impossible for anyone for one moment to suggest that he had represented himself as a lender. The commission note also stipulated that any moneys paid for out-of-pocket expenses were not to be returned in any event. Each of these persons applied either through having seen the advertisement or having received a circular, and every advertisement and circular expressly said that he was not a moneylender, meaning, of course, that he was merely an agent. There was no intention of misleading the public. He had carried on a perfectly genuine agent's business and this year alone had advanced sums amounting to over £5,170, but he was at a serious disadvantage inasmuch as he could not call clients as witnesses. They were people in good positions, wellknown business men, well-to-do gentlemen, officers of the Army and Navy, and merchants, who had come to him in confidence to obtain money to tide over their difficulties, but did not wish to make public the fact that they had needed to borrow money, which might in every case damage and ruin them irretrievably, so that in addition to the disadvantage of having the whole weight of the Treasury against him he was at the disadvantage of being hampered in his defence by the confidential nature of his business. Prisoner also dealt with Har-court's position as his clerk receiving one-third of the commissions, and said he did not see how his own banking should affect the charge against him. He had been bankrupt twice. None of the prosecutors had shown that they were men of position to whom loans should have been granted.

Prisoner Harcourt also addressed the jury from the dock, describing his position as that of buffer between Rutter and his clients and acting as managing clerk in the business.

Verdict. Both Guilty. Both pleaded guilty to previous convictions.

Sentences. Each penal servitude for three years. For the crime of forgery, etc., to which Harcourt pleaded guilty, penal servitude for five years, the sentence of three years to run concurrently with it.


(Friday, October 23.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-49
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

ASHFORD, Edwin ; assaulting and thereby occasioning actual bodily harm to George Gamble.

Mr. R. D. Muir and Mr. Travers Humphreys prosecuted; Mr. Huntly Jenkins and Mr. H. D. Roome defended.

GEORGE GAMBLE , 76, Lillington Street, Pimlico, painter's labourer at Trollope and Co., Grosvenor Road, builders and decorators. In August, 1906, I was living at a common lodging-house known as the Victoria Home, at the corner of Wentworth Street and Commercial Street. I was in very good health. On August 20, 1906, I left work at six p.m., went home, had tea, thence to the London Music Hall, Shoreditch, left at 11 p.m., had supper at a fried fish shop in a street out of Commercial Road, being there from half an hour to an hour, and had some mineral waters at a Jew's shop. I was then going home through bye streets when I met Ethel Griffiths at the bottom of a street leading into Brick Lane, where there was a church or school, the name of which I do not know. I knew her only by the name of "Ethel." I was talking to her when the prisoner in uniform came up and said, "Come, get out of this." I said, "All right, I am going," left him with the woman, walked towards Brick Lane, when the woman caught me up and spoke to me. Prisoner followed her and said, "You are not out of it yet, you are up to no good with the like of this, you ought to be ashamed of yourself." I said, "It is not for me to be ashamed of myself, it is the likes of you for wanting to have connection with this woman." He passed a very nasty remark, and said, "It is a lie." I said, "It is not; the woman there will prove it. "Then he said, "If you are not out of it I will have you somewhere else. "I said, "I shall certainly report you for wanting to have connection with this woman. "He kept dancing in front of me trying to stop me. I walked on the pavement towards Brick Lane. Griffiths was in the middle of the road. I told prisoner to keep his hands off me; if I was doing any harm to lock me up. I got very nearly into Brick Lane when prisoner gave me a knock; I fell down near the kerb; he started kicking me between the legs, he kicked me several times; I was on my arm or my stomach, and put my hand up to shield my head. Before I fell down I saw another officer about 100 yards off at the top of the street—he came up and said to prisoner," Leave him alone, you have done enough to him." Then he turned round to me and said, "Get up and fight him like a man"; he helped me up. I made the best way I could into Brick Lane. Prisoner followed me into another street out of Brick Lane which I do not know the name of, again knocked me down, and started kicking me again in the same way between the legs, on the hind part. I could not say if anyone else was there. The kicking caused me terrible pain. I got up and made my way to the Victoria Home and stayed outside. I could not say what time it was then; it was a long time after turning out time—12.30; I

should say it would be one a.m. when I first met him. I sat down outside the home; I kept getting up and sitting down to ease me because it gradually began swelling; it hurt me just as if it would turn me in two. I stayed there from three-quarters of an hour to an hour; then Ethel Griffiths and the boy Wiltshire came—I had never seen Wiltshire before. They advised me to go to the hospital. I said I would wait and see how it got on; after a little they took me to the London Hospital. I was taken in as an in-patient and remained till November 16; I underwent four or five operations, two or three very serious ones. When prisoner kicked me the second time I do not remember his saying anything. My name is George Gamble—in the hospital I was entered in the name of Pierce; I do not know how that was. I next saw prisoner at the Royal Commission at the Guildhall, Westminster, on February 20, 1907. He was brought into the Court with seven or eight other police constables, all in uniform with helmets on, and I picked him out. I could not identify the other officer; I was on the ground when he came up, but I knew there was a second officer there.

Cross-examined. I left the music-hall at 11 to 11.30 p.m., had some fish and mineral water in a by-street, the name of which I do not know, which was on my way home. I had been at work that day and was going to work the next morning. I could not say if it was one or two o'clock when I met Griffiths—I had been a tidy long time in the fish shop—it was long after the public-houses were closed. I could not say if I had crossed Brick Lane before I met her. I was first assaulted in a street leading into Brick Lane. I had known her three or four months from seeing her about the streets. I knew her as "Ethel." I had had immoral relations with her. I said before the Commission that I had spoken to her only as a matter of form. I said that as not having been with the woman continuously. I used to see her and she has asked me to treat her now and again. I knew she was living at a lodging-house just off Brick Lane—I do not know where—I have not called there. I have known her two or three months seeing her messing about there. I met her accidentally on the night I was assaulted. I have often seen her in a public-house opposite the Victoria Home. She has often asked me to treat her, but I have very seldom done so. She used to call me "George." She did not know my other name. I have only been with her two or three times, all fold. I simply knew her as "Ethel" by hearing her called "Ethel" by other men. I did not know she was a dishonest woman. I had been speaking to her five or 10 minutes when prisoner came up. He told me to get out of it. I walked away with the intention of going home. Griffiths caught me up and told me what prisoner wanted her to do. Prisoner followed on and said, "You are not out of this yet." I went steady up the street, and prisoner kept getting in front of me, treading on my heels, and shoving me—I could not say how long that lasted—it might have been half an hour or three-quarters of an hour before I got to the top of that street owing to the way he kept dancing in front of me. This was a street leading into Brick Lane after I turned off from

the street where the school was. I said to him, "Do not knock me about. If I am doing any wrong take me to the station and charge me." He was shoving me, pushing me, trying to make me touch him, trying to tease me to cause me to raise my hand to him. I did not do so because I knew I should be charged with assaulting him. I had had no experience of this kind before. I do not recognise Sheedy as the other officer. I know there was another officer who helped me on my feet and told prisoner he had done enough to me. I do not remember complaining to him, because after he had helped me up he went across the road to try and drive the woman away. I could not say if there was a crowd or who was there. I did not hear anyone say, "Let the man go." I made the best of my way up the street. I did not see the woman till I got a little way up the street, when I turned round and saw the other officer in the middle of the road trying to drive her down the street. I went round towards Brick Lane and prisoner caught me up and knocked me down again. I have no recollection of complaining to anyone. I cannot say what time Griffiths and Wiltshire saw me at the Victoria Home—I daresay it would be three-quarters of an hour or an hour after this occurred, and I daresay I stayed outside the Home a half or threequarters of an hour. As far as I remember I saw no one all the time I lay there. I have never gone by the name of Pierce except in the hospital. I never told Griffiths my name was Pierce. I told the nurses it was the wrong name, and they said it would have to remain. I first saw it on the card over my bed. I signed my statement in the name of Pierce—I also told them my name was Gamble, that they had got the wrong name. Griffiths visited me in the hospital two or three times during the first week or so. I did not discuss the assault with her because I was in too much pain; I was on the "dangerous" list for a week or two. I never saw her afterwards till I was on the Commission, when she was giving evidence. I did not know prisoner's number. I went by the features of the man. I saw the number on his uniform, but I did not know it before I identified him. I have got that man's face impressed on my memory. I saw Griffiths before I went into Court and spoke to her. I saw prisoner outside the Court and knew him by his features. I can swear to him anywhere. I gave a description of the man a few weeks after I went in the hospital to Mr. Timewell, of the Police and Public Vigilance Society. I signed that as "Pierce." I gave a description of the officer, and he got all the information and everything. I could not say what he asked me—I was pretty sick at the time. I came out of the hospital in November, 1906, and went to a convalescent home. Timewell came to see me three or four times. I made two or three statements. He came to see me two or three weeks after I went into the hospital. I did not mention Griffiths's name to him that I remember. After coming back form the convalescent home I made no complaint to the police; I left the case to Mr. Timewell. No proceedings were taken until the sitting of the Police Commission. I did not know Wiltshire's name before the date of the Commission. I can only remember one officer besides

the prisoner at the assault; that other officer was talking to some other person at the top of the street, but I could not say what sort of person it was.

Re-examined. I believe I gave evidence on the first day I went up to the Commission. I saw Griffiths and spoke to her on that day for about five minutes altogether. No one told me the name of the officer who was supposed to have helped me. No one told me the number of the prisoner; I saw him coming along, I saw the number, and I knew he was the same man.

ROBERT STANTON WOODS , house physician at London Hospital in August, 1906. On August 21, 1906, between five and six a.m., I saw prosecutor in the receiving room, and partly examined him. He was in great pain, suffering from enlarged gland swelling between the buttocks. I at once admitted him, and further examined him in one of the wards. He was suffering from internal injury. My professional knowledge of the case went no further—it passed into the surgeon's hands. The swelling I found indicated the application of any extreme violence directed to the part—direct violence—some sort of violent blow. One or more kicks of a boot would account for the injury. A fall in the street would not account for it unless the man had fallen so as to bring some wedge-shaped object in contact with the part. Tumbling down in a flat place would not cause it. From the hospital records I know prosecutor was operated upon several times. When I saw him he Was conscious, and sober as far as I could judge—I noticed no signs of drink.

Cross-examined. When a patient comes to the gate of the hospital he first interviews the porter, who directs him to the receiving room, where a nurse in charge admits him and takes his name, address, civil estate, and occupation from himself or those with him. Prosecutor had no external bleeding that I saw. It is highly improbable that the man had bled at all—it is two years ago now, but to the best of my recollection it would be quite impossible. I did not examine his whole body, but I found no other signs of violence; there were none on his face; I did not examine the stomach; I saw no blood on his clothing.

Re-examined. I cannot recollect whether his nose had bled. The surgeon into whose hands he passed was Dr. Bennett; he has since gone to China.

WILLIAM FEWELL , 11, Ainslie Street, Bethnal Green, night porter at the London Hospital, on duty from 10 p.m. to seven a.m. on August 20-21 at the main gate. I made a record of cases admitted in the night registrar; the book for that night has been mislaid; copy produced at the Royal Commission shows that two surgical cases were admitted: a woman at 1.45 a.m. and a man at 4.45 a.m. The case would be passed on to the receiving room.

Cross-examined. I have a copy of the receiving room register. The case at 4.45 is entered as "George Pierce—rupture—Copes Ward—doctor or surgeon: Dr. Hutchinson." He was the visiting surgeon, not the house surgeon.

ETHEL GRIFFITHS , 2, Flower and Dean Street, Brick Lane. On August 20, between 1.30 and two a.m., I met prosecutor, whom I knew as "George," in a street leading out of Mile End Road into Brick Lane, the name of which I do not know, which contains a school. While I was speaking to him a constable in uniform, whom I knew by having seen him before that night, called me on one side from Gamble, and asked me if I would go across the road with him. I refused, went back to prosecutor, and told him what the constable had said. We turned up round past the school into Brick Lane and then into Chicksand Street; the constable followed and knocked prosecutor down; he tried to rise; the constable kicked him; prosecutor got up and went across the road. That was in Osborne Place. I do not remember exactly because it is a long time ago. The place where the police constable kicked him is in a street where there is a lodging-house which leads into Brick Lane. There were one or two men there; then afterwards there were more. Another uniformed police-man came up. I do not remember if he said anything or what he did. Then prosecutor got up and went round the corner followed by the first police-constable towards Brick Lane. I spoke to Wiltshire, and we went to look for prosecutor, who I knew lived in Victoria Home. We found him standing against the wall there; he was very bad; we took him to the London Hospital, getting there between four and five a.m. I next saw the policeman who had kicked the prosecutor at the Royal Commission in February, 1907, when I saw him at the Sessions House, Westminster, and recognised him as the prisoner. He was brought in with six or seven other police constables, and I identified him. I did not previously know his number.

Cross-examined. I did not treat this very seriously at the Commission. From the time I first met the prosecutor till we got to the hospital was about three hours; I did not consider the time exactly. I have not the slightest idea what time he left me. I first met him two streets away from Osborne Place outside a school. The policeconstable asked me if I would go with him, and I said "No." He had spoken to me before—told me to move on. I cannot recognise the second officer. I think I said at the Commission that I could recognise the second officer—he was a sergeant. I did not complain to him of the assault on prosecutor. I moved away when he told me I do not remember what he did. Prosecutor has been home with m✗e—he has never lived with me—I have never lived in the same house with him. I have lived with "Ginger Jack." I have seen Police-constable Clark. I remember meeting him outside the. "Car-penter's Arms." I do not remember saying in Clark's presence to Ginger Jack, referring to prosecutor, "You know he is a b—steady fellow; I left you once before to go and live with him." I may have said that; I do not remember, but I do not think so. I never knew prosecutor as "Pierce" until after he went to the London Hospital. I did not give that name when I took him there. I went to see him there—I did not ask for him by the name of Pierce. I had seen prisoner before August 21, 1906. I did not know his number. I took it on the night of the assault. In the hospital

Prosecutor: old me he could identify the police-constable. At the Royal Commission I was talking with prosecutor, Wiltshire, and Hartnett when the constables went past. I saw mrs. Franks there. Mr. Timewell took a statement from me in the White House, a lodging-house; he asked me several questions; I said I knew the constable—I had seen him a few times—I think I was able to give his number. I have been three times convicted for dishonesty and was in custody when asked to give evidence. I have been six years in London. I have stayed for years at the house in Flower and Dean Street. I have received no money from Timewell except my expenses when before the Commission. I refused to make a statement first because I did not want to be a witness.

JOSEPH WILTSHIRE , private, 1st Battalion, Royal Fusiliers, stationed at Tidwell, 19 years of age. In August, 1906, I was selling newspapers and living at 19, Flower and Dean Street, a registered common lodging-house known as Smith's Chambers. The back part of the house looks into Brick Lane. On August 21, 1906, between two and three a.m., I was in Flower and Dean Street, about 100 yards from Brick Lane on the side opposite to Osborne Plane. I heard screaming, went to Brick Lane, and at the corner of Chicksand Street saw prosecutor lying on the ground; a poiice-constable, a police sergeant, and some other people, were there, woman and men. Prosecutor was three or four yards into Chicksand Street. I knew the police constable from having seen him on duty—it was the prisoner. He was leaning over prosecutor, who was trying to get up. The police-constable knocked him down two or three times, with his fist as the man tried to get up. I saw him knock him down twice, then prosecutor got up and ran down Chicksand Street, the police-constable following. The sergeant said, "Let him alone, he has had enough." I noticed prisoner's number at the time, but I have forgotten it—I know there was a "7" at the end. The sergeant's number was H 5. Prosecutor ran as far as a court in Chicksand Street when prisoner again knocked him down and kicked him. Griffiths, who was there, and I were turned away by the sergeant, and I saw no more. She and I went to find prosecutor near the Victoria Home, and in about threequarters of an hour found him sitting down outside. We took him to the London Hospital; it took about three-quarters of an hour to do so; it is not very far, but he could not walk; I could not say what time we got there.

Cross-examined. I knew Ethel Griffiths by sight, but had never spoken to her before August 20, 1906. I used to sell papers at Liverpool Street till 12 at night and was outside in the street that night because it was hot. There was a crowd at the corner of Chicksand Street—they let the police-constable assault the man without a single word of protest; the sergeant turned round and said, "Let him alone, he has had enough." Prosecutor was lying on the ground holding his head. It was a mixed crowd; they did not cry, "Let him alone!" It was a most cowardly thing to do. I went down Montagu Street. Griffiths and I found prosecutor about a

quarter of an hour afterwards outside the Victoria Home I did not hear anyone at the hospital take the name. I did not complain to any police authority—it was nothing to do with me—until Mr. Timewell spoke to me. My statement was taken in a lodging house in Flower and Dean Street. I gave Timewell prisoner's number and I identified him at the Commission. There were only two policeconstables present at the assault. I visited prosecutor at the hospital with Griffiths. I heard prosecutor's name at the hospital; it was put up over his bed—"Gamble"—I am certain of that; I swear it was not "Pierce." Griffiths never told me his name was Gamble or anything about him.

(Saturday, October 24.)

I identify 5 H as the sergeant who was present. If I said before the Commission I did not know the injured man's name was "Gamble," I must have forgotten it. I had seen it over the cot. When we went to the hospital we had a blue card, like that produced, given us; I do not remember what name was on it. Griffiths went with me to pay the visit. I do not know Brager; I know Hartnett by sight; I do not know if my statement was taken in their presence.

Re-examined. I enlisted in July, 1907. I gave evidence before the Commission in February, 1907. I have not spoken to anyone about the case since I gave evidence before the Commission till the constables came down to the barracks about three months ago.

JAMES HARTNETT , Rowton House, Whitechapel, waterside labourer. On August 20, 1906, I lived at Argent's Lodging House, one side of which looks over Osborne Place and the other over Brick Lane; it is next door to the "Bell" public-house. I was sleeping on the first floor with eight or nine other lodgers, including George Brager. I heard a woman screaming and a man groaning. I got up, and saw from the window a man in a stooping position, a police-constable kicking him, and a sergeant, who told the woman to go one way and the man the other before there would be further trouble. The man was on his hands and knees, and the police-constable kicked him in the back I should say six or seven times. The man struggled the best way he could towards Chicksand Street. I did not know who the man was and had never seen him before, to my knowledge. I have since seen the police-constable on duty; I recognised him at the Commission; it is the prisoner. I also recognised the sergeant; his number was "5," but I knew both of them by their features. Brager also looked out of the window and saw the occurrence.

Cross-examined. When before the Commission I did not think it was going to turn out so serious a case; I treated it rather lightly. I have had about 16s. paid me, and I have my expenses at Bow Street to come. Detective Desent lent me a little there. I told Desent and also the Chief Inspector, "I wish I had had nothing to do with it; I have been dragged into this all through idle talk." I did not say I knew nothing about it. It was the talk all over Brick

Lane, and when Mr. Timewell investigated into the case and wanted witnesses, I gave my version of it to one of his agents in the top-room of a public-house. I told him I could recognise the police-constable by his face. There had been a good deal of talk about who he was—no one knew, only the people who saw it. There was the woman Griffiths and the boy Wiltshire there—no crowd; no one protested; it lasted two or three minutes or a little longer. I did not shout out; I did not know who the man was or what he had been doing. The woman was screaming till the sergeant told the police-constable to leave off. I did not see prosecutor until the Commission, and I should not have known the man. At the Commission I was talking with Gamble and the witnesses when the police-constables came by. I identified prisoner by his number and also by his face. I saw prisoner's number at the time of the assault; there were two lamps, and it was breaking daylight; I did not see him full-face, perhaps, but I could tell by the stamp of the man.

Re-examined. I have never had any trouble with prisoner and did not know him before the assault.

GEORGE BRAGER , 8, Whites Road, Spitalfields dock labourer. In August, 1906, I was living at Argent's Lodging House. One night in August I was in bed when I heard a man holloaing out. I got up, looked out of the window, and saw two police-constables standing over a man who was on the ground about five or six yards from my house towards Brick Lane, just past the lamp-post. I did not see the constables do anything. The man got up and ran towards Chicksand Street. One of the police-constables, who is the prisoner, ran after him. I knew prisoner before by seeing him on duty, and recognised him. I did not know his number. I recognised him out of several other police-constables at the Commission. I could not recognise the other officer.

Cross-examined. I said at the Commission, "I have an idea of the constable, but not of the sergeant." I was not talking to Hartnett and Griffiths at the Sessions House, Westminster, when the constables came along. I had never spoken about it. Hartnett had lived at Argent's about the same time as I had. I saw nothing done to the man; I was looking out of the window about ten minutes. My statement was taken, I think, by someone from Timewell in Chicksand Street. Not a single person had said a word about it to me. I said I had an idea of the police-constable. I have seen him on duty in Brick Lane before and after this occurred. I knew him perfectly well. I did not know his number exactly. Of course, I could not see his number when looking out of the window. It was a surprise when Timewell's agent came to me. I was standing at the corner, I heard a man—a stranger to me—talking about it, and I said, "Well, I saw it." At the Commission I said the man talking to me was Hayes. I cannot explain how that was taken down; I do not know his name.

Re-examined. I was standing at the corner of the street and the man Hayes, or whatever his name is, said there had been a gentleman

down who wanted to know whether there were any witnesses. I said, "Yes, I will volunteer to be one," and I afterwards made a statement when the gentleman came.

WILLIAM HUGHES . I live at Argent's Lodging House and was living there in August, 1906. I sell newspapers in the streets. One night in August, 1906, I was sleeping in the second floor room looking into Osborne Place when I was awakened by hearing a man whom I recognise as George Gamble shouting out, "Oh." It was between three and four a.m., just breaking daylight. I looked out of the window and saw a police-constable hit him with his fist and knock him down. The constable was the prisoner—I had seen him several times in the street and knew him; I saw his number under the lamp—207 H. He knocked the man down; he got up; prisoner spoke to him and knocked him down again; then the man rose from the ground and ran towards Spelman Street, which is a turning out of Chicksand Street. Prisoner ran after him. I saw no more. When prisoner knocked him down the first time he kicked him; there was another police-constable there, but I could not swear against him at first till the man ran, and then I saw the stripe on his arm which a sergeant has. I have seen the sergeant since and can identify him now. I gave evidence before the Commission and recognised the prisoner; I saw him in Hanbury Street about a week after the occurrence and recognised him as the man I had seen kicking someone on the night of August 20. I had seen him before it happened and had always known him.

Cross-examined. I was looking out from the left-hand window of the room and the police-constables were just opposite. I took particular notice of prisoner's number. I told no one what I had seen. I was standing at the corner of Flower and Dean Street and a gentleman took me into the "White House," in that street, and asked me the name and everything. I gave a statement; it was a funny thing how he came to get my name. I was sent for Wiltshire. Wiltshire and Griffiths were there on the other side of the kitchen. I gave my statement in the "White House"; Griffiths was living there then; I was not there when Griffiths made her statement. I knew her by the name of "Ethel." I have spoken to her, but not had much say with her. She never said a word to me about this assault until I was taken to her place.

ANNIE FRANKS , 28, Spelman Street, wife of Abraham Franks. My house is three or four houses from the corner of Chicksand Street. Boundary Court is on the same side. I sleep in the first floor room looking on to Spelman Street. On a night in August, 1906, about 3 to 3.30 a.m. I heard someone groaning, looked out, and saw a man lying down on the pavement not many yards from and opposite my house. A police-constable in uniform was standing over the man kicking him. The man said, "Let me alone." The police-constable said, "If you do not get up and go away I will give you some more." The man got up and went down Spelman Street into Hanbury Street, away from Chicksand Street. The police-constable went

down John's Court, which is next door to me. I saw what I have described quite clearly and distinctly. I cannot say who the man was or who the police-constable was.

Cross-examined. I told no one except my mother what I had seen. I have nothing to be afraid of from the police. A man, not Mr. Timewell, asked me for a statement for the Commission; he said he was from the Royal Commission; that they would take it up to the Commission, and that they were against the police if there were any assaults. I could not say how he came to me.

Chief Inspector JOSEPH HEWISON, G Division. In August, 1906, I was Sub-Inspector of the H Division. Prisoner was a police-constable, No. 207 of the H. Division. He joined the force on October 8, 1900; he has a perfectly clean record. On the night of August 20-21, 1906, he was on duty from 10 p.m. to 5 a.m. We were rather short-handed in the division, and prisoner had to take two beats—Nos. 10 and 11. The boundaries of those beats would be Hanbury Street on the south; the south side of Spelman Street to the west. Osborne Place would be a considerable distance off prisoner's beat. Any superior officer seeing him there would have asked the reason. The patrolling sergeant would know the beat of every police-constable. Sergeant Sheedy, 5 H, was in charge of the section east of Brick Lane and would visit prisoner. The first intimation the authorities had of this assault upon Gamble was a letter from a firm of solicitors received on November 23, 1906, which was referred to me for investigation. (Letter from Radford and Frankland read.) Prisoner's number being mentioned in that letter, I called upon him to make a report, which he did, stating that he was on Nos. 10 and 11 beats, second section, which includes part of Spelman Street; that he did not know Gamble; that he had not assaulted him; and that he knew and had heard nothing of the occurrence. (Report read.) I made inquiry at the London Hospital, could not find anyone named George Gamble there, and was told they had no such person in the hospital. I made further inquiries in the neighbourhood and could hear nothing of it. The matter remained in abeyance until, with other matters, it was investigated before the Royal Commission, whose report was not published until July, 1908. A summons was then applied for by direction of the Chief Commissioner of Police against the prisoner. I attended the hearings of the Royal Commission with reference to this case. All the police-constables in the vicinity of the alleged assault were brought up at the Commission in order that the witnesses might identify the particular one.

(Monday, October 26.)

Cross-examined. There is nothing whatever against prisoner; he has a good record. He has been in the force eight years and must have had an excellent character when he joined. Serjeant Sheedy, I believe, has been 14 years in the force, and from his position must be a man of the best character and respected by everybody in his

division. If prisoner assaulted a man in Osborne Place he would be a considerable distance off his beat—about 120 yards. Osborne Place runs to the boundary of the section. He would be very liable to be noticed, if in that position, by his sergeant, and even an ordinary officer seeing another off his beat would probably ask him what he was doing. It would be the sergeant's duty to inquire and report. The police-constable would also make a report. Sergeant Sheedy supervised the whole of the prisoner's section throughout the night; the officers do not know when they will be visited. On this night there was an acting inspector and the station sergeant patrolling the whole sub-division, one from 10 p.m. to two a.m., and the other from two to six a.m., who make appointments to meet the station sergeant to receive any reports that there are; so that there are three senior officers who might have seen prisoner at any moment. On August 21, 1906, I received no complaint at all from any officer on the beat, and the prisoner has from first to last strenuously denied that he knew Gamble, assaulted him, or that anything unusual occurred that night. Notwithstanding these allegations, he was allowed to remain on duty until shortly after the magisterial proceedings, when he was suspended pending the result of this trial. No process has been taken against Sergeant Sheedy, and he still remains in the force. When I received the letter of November 23, 1906, from Messrs. Radford and Frankland, I read it to prisoner; he told me he knew nothing of it, and he subsequently made a report. He gave evidence on oath before the Royal Commission, where a great many allegations were made against the police, the majority through the Police and Public Vigilance Society, of which Timewell is the secretary. Timewell is not a solicitor or professional man.


EDWIN ASHFORD (prisoner, on oath). I am Police-constable 207 H and have been in that division eight years. I have been married seven years, have one child, and live happily with my wife at 52, Huntingdon Buildings, Bethnal Green Road. I have a perfectly clean sheet in the force. Black marks are made against an officer for drunkenness, bringing improper charges, quarrelling with fellow officers, etc. On Monday, August 20, 1906, I was paraded for duty by Station Sergeant Anderson at 10 p.m., and went on duty until five a.m. instead of six a.m., having an hour off which was due to me. I went off duty at five a.m. and reported at the station before going home. I started my beat by going down Hanbury Street, through Spelman Street into Hunt Street, Buxton Street, Valance Road, and then into Hanbury Street to the starting point, which was at the corner of Spelman Street. Hunt Street is just outside my beat. That comprised two beats, Nos. 10 and 11. I then went over the interior of the beat—Pelham Street, Dean Street, Powell Street, Underwood Street, and so on. I was never off my beat that morning; nothing unusual occurred. Sergeant Sheedy visited me several times; I cannot remember whether other officers visited me. Before

this time I had known Ethel Griffiths by sight only as an unfortunate woman walking the streets. I had never heard her called "Ethel." I have ordered her to move on when she was the worse for liquor, sometimes in the day time; she has generally gone away when an officer spoke to her. Up to this time I did not know prosecutor, and as far as I know have never seen him. I did not see Griffiths or Gamble on the night of August 21, 1906. I first heard of this alleged assault when Chief Inspector Hewison read me a letter. Up to that time I had never heard that anything unusual had taken place on or near my beat. I made a report. About February 18, 1907, just before I went to the Royal Commission, Griffiths asked to speak to me. I said, "Yes." She showed me what appeared to be a letter in an envelope and asked me to read it. I told her I did not want any conversation with her. She said, as she went away, "If you make it worth my while I will bunk out of it." At that time it was obvious what the charge was against me. From first to last I have strenuously denied that I knew anything whatever about this. That is true.

Cross-examined. I could not now state on which part of my beat I was at any particular moment. I go through all the streets both of the interior and the outside of my beat. I started in Hanbury Street, then Spelman Street—that is the extreme west of my beat—into Hunt Street, then to the top of the beat, which is Buxton Street, down Valance Road, and so into Hanbury Street; then later on into the streets in the middle of the beat. There would be nothing to show where I was at any particular time. If any sergeant saw me on or off my beat it would be Sergeant Sheedy; he would visit me about four or five times; he was in charge of all the officers on this section. I do not remember if Police-constable Frost, 124 H, was in charge of the beat, which includes Chicksand Street and Osborne Place. Police-constable Frost is not in the least like me or likely to be mistaken for me. I should not say that Police-constable Jarvis, 200 H, is like me. I knew Griffiths well by sight by seeing her about the streets for about 18 months. I am quite sure I never spoke to her in my life before the occasion I have mentioned. At the Commission I said I was quite positive I never had any conversation at all with her. I have seen her the worse for drink and told her to move on, but I did not regard that as having conversation with her. I cannot recollect how many times that has happened. She has always gone away quietly when spoken to without there being any trouble, and as far as I know there would be no illfeeling between us. I had never seen Gamble before and therefore there was no illfeeling between him and me. I have seen Hartnett, Hughes, Baker, and Wiltshire, in the neighbourhood, but not to recognise them until they came on the Commission; I have never had occasion to interfere with them; I had seen them about the streets like other respectable people; at the Commission I recognised their faces from seeing them about while on duty. I was not in the room when they gave their evidence. I was called in from time to time with other officers, identified by a witness in the box

and sent out again. The other officers were those on duty near me on the night of August 20-21, 1906. No witness picked out any officer other than me. I saw Hughes at the Commission. I know him by sight as I do the others but not by name. I know his mother quite well, and knew him as a man named Hughes, but not by his Christian name. I never had occasion to speak to him. I have seen his mother quarrelling in the street and have spoken to her as a police-constable. In August, 1906, my duties would not take me into Brick Lane at all. I was on Beats Nos. 10 and 11 every night in August, 1906. I do not remember what my duty was in September, 1906—I was on day duty. The duty would be changed from night to day first Monday in the month alternately. I cannot remember whether I was posted on the first or second section in November. I spoke to Ethel Griffiths, a day or two before the Commission took this case, at the corner of Castle Street and Wentworth Street, near Flower and Dean Street. I did not know she was coming up as witness before the Commission. I knew nothing more about her at that time than that she was a woman walking the streets who had nothing to do with me and I had nothing to do with her. When she came to speak to me I was in uniform on duty. I could not say she was sober—she had been drinking and had just come from a public-house. She produced an envelope and asked me to read it. I refused, because I did not want to know anything of her business. If I were seen reading a letter of that character by any of my superior officers I should be put upon the Report and dealt with. It is my duty if she asked me a question to answer it, but not to read her letters. I told her I did not want to read her letters nor hold any conversation with her. I never saw what the letter was at all and she did not tell me what her business was. I had no idea at all at that time that she was going to give evidence before the Royal Commission. I saw her next at the Commission.

Re-examined. I did not read her letter because I thought I should get into trouble if my superior officer saw me. Griffiths was well known to myself and other officers as a prostitute of the worst kind. I should not call telling her to move on exactly speaking to her; I should say it was a matter of duty; that is what I meant when I gave evidence at the Commission. When she spoke to me about the letter Police-constable Clarke, 279 H, was with me. I cannot remember making any remark about Gamble on that occasion.

Sergeant THOMAS SHEEDY, 5 H. I have been 14 years in the force, first in the A Division, and been attached to the H Division since June 23, 1906. During the month of August, 1906, I was on night duty, and on August 20, 1906, was in charge of No. 2 Section and paraded my men at 9.45 p.m. I gave a statement to Sergeant Anderson, the acting inspector, as to the number of men I had available, and on his instructions met him at 4.30 a.m. at the corner of Hanbury Street and Brick Lane. I put my men on the beats and remained on duty all night. Sergeants Duffin and Anderson were my superior officers and were acting inspectors. I witnessed no assault that night. I did not see prisoner off his beat; if I had it

would have been my duty to ascertain the cause and he would make a report which I should initial. I should visit him four, five, or six times—there is no set number of times; I might visit him at any moment; I am bound to visit him. Sergeants Duffin and Anderson might see him if he was off his beat. There were three superior officers who might come upon him at any moment. At that time I did not know Griffiths or Gamble at all. I know them now. Since this charge was brought to the notice of the police I made a report; that was a truthful report and was an absolute denial that anything of this kind had taken place. I had never seen or heard anything of it. I say on oath now that nothing of the kind took place to my knowledge. I witnessed no assault. I gave evidence before the Royal Commission to the same effect and have all along denied that anything of the kind took place.

Cross-examined. During prisoner's seven hours' duty I should see him four, five, or six times, the first time perhaps at 10.30. I cannot say at what times I afterwards visited him. On that night nothing extraordinary transpired. I patrolled the section and saw the men every time I went round. (To the Judge.) If two or three people were drunk and disorderly and making a noise it would be a police constable's duty to get them to go away and to follow them off the boundary of his beat and disperse them if they continued disorderly; he would not leave them at his boundary. If I met a man 100 yards off his beat I should ask him the reason; if the people were disorderly I should remain with the police constable and quell the disturbance.

Verdict, Guilty.

(Tuesday, October 27.)

Sentence, Nine months' hard labour.

Mr. Huntly Jenkins asked for leave to appeal.

The Common Serjeant. This is not a case in which the Court of Appeal would review the verdict, there being ample evidence to justify and support it. The proper course, if there is anything to be said in favour of the prisoner, would be to apply to the Home Secretary, unless there is anything in the summing-up or any ruling of law or fact to complain of.

Mr. Huntly Jenkins said he had nothing to complain of in the way of misdirection either in law or fact.

Leave to appeal refused.


(Friday, October 23.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-50
VerdictMiscellaneous > no agreement

Related Material

BILL, Harry (30, carman) ; stealing a parcel containing two suits of clothes, the goods of the Great Eastern Railway Company.

Mr. J.P. Grain prosecuted; Mr. Curtis Bennett defended.

GEORGE WILLIAM DOLDEN , in the employ of the Great Eastern Railway Company, proved a plan of the spot where the goods were taken from at Liverpool Street Station.

Cross-examined. I had the positions of the van and parcels pointed out to me, and was instructed by the solicitor of the company to put them in the particular places. I do not know that the van was backed to the place I have indicated. The offices marked on the plan are in their correct positions.

Detective FREDERICK BAKER, Great Eastern Railway Company's Police Service. On the morning of September 10 I was concealed in the parcels department behind some baskets, watching. I saw the prisoner drive in about a quarter to one, and saw him back his van, as shown on the plan which has been produced. The tail-board of the van was down, and I saw him throw out some parcels, eleven in number. I said at the police court on the first occasion that it was nine, but at once corrected that. After throwing out the parcels the prisoner walked about eight feet to his right behind the checking office, and picked up a parcel which was with a number of others stacked up for the early morning trains. He walked towards his van and threw it into the van, immediately put his tail-board up, mounted over the back of the tail-board, and drove out at a fast trot in the Gracechurch Street direction. I followed him and called to him to stop, which he refused to do. I caught hold of the off-side rein and pulled the horse up. I told the prisoner I was a detective officer, and that I believed he had a parcel in his van which did not belong to him. He said, "What are you getting at?" and started his horse off. With difficulty I got into the van and told him to pull up. He turned to the left and drove into Middlesex Street, and I pulled up the van just opposite the Salvation Army shelter. The prisoner said he would show me what he had got and counted out five bundles of "Daily Mirrors." I asked him what the other parcel was under the seat. He said: "Don't lock me up; you are going to charge me, ain't you?" I said, "Yes, certainly." He said, "Be a man; think of my wife and children. I am a man of the world; take this 3s." I refused, and persuaded him to drive to the police station. I there charged him with stealing the parcel, which contained two suits of clothes, which was addressed to Tiptree, Essex. When prisoner was charged, he said he must have made a mistake. There was plenty of light at the yard. The prisoner had to walk some steps from where the "Mirror" parcels were to the spot where the parcel was.

Cross-examined. The station is not in darkness in the early morning. I was stationed about five yards from the entrance where the cart was backed. The men are not in a great hurry when they bring the papers in the morning, they simply put their bundles out in the ordinary way. When I said nine bundles at the police station it was a slip. I am certain of the number of parcels that were thrown out. There were a number of other parcels lying about stacked up according to the respective trains. I did not see the prisoner put back into his van more than one parcel. He did not stop at a drinking

trough to give his horse water, but drove out of the yard at a fast trot, and I had to run after him. I heard the prisoner say at the police court that he threw out some of the South-Eastern parcels and the one containing the clothes got back by mistake. I do not remember exactly what he said at the police station, but he did say he had made a mistake. I cannot say whether the parcel would have been under the seat as I found it if had been picked up in mistake for a "Daily Mirror" parcel and thrown into the van. The prisoner appeared to be concealing it with his legs. Anyone could see the parcel from the back of the van. It was lying with the other parcels at the bottom.

Re-examined. The parcels of the "Daily Mirror" were all flat on the bank by themselves, but the parcel which prisoner took was from another lot of parcels—a stack of them. The light at the yard was good enough to read a newspaper by.

HERBERT WATKINSON . I am employed by the Great Eastern Railway Company at Liverpool Street Station and was on duty on the morning of September 10 outside the parcels shed. I was sitting at the shipping desk and could see the parcels of newspapers which might be thrown out and the stack from which the prisoner took the parcel. I saw prisoner back his van with the tail-board down. I was sitting at the shipping desk eating my supper, saw prisoner get out of the van and walk away from where the parcels were, pick up a parcel, and get into the van and drive away followed by the detective.

Cross-examined. I do not think I was more interested in my supper than what was going on outside. I had to look particularly to see which bundle had the way bill on. I should think the parcel which prisoner took was six to eight feet away from where the "Daily Mirrors" were thrown out. I counted up the parcels the prisoner threw out afterwards and found there were eleven. The prisoner did not throw out more than eleven parcels.

Re-examined. I could see very well by the light in the station.

Police-constable WILLIAM BONNER, Great Eastern Railway Police Service. I am on duty at night at Liverpool Street Station. There is plenty of light at the place where the prisoner backed his van, sufficient to see to read a newspaper.

Cross-examined. No new lights have been added since this case that I am aware of. The lights are always on. The big lights are turned out at night and the small ones left on. They are usually turned out about half-past twelve.

Re-examined. There has been no alteration of the lights over the parcels office since September 7.

Detective HENRY BEECHY, City Police. I was in charge at Bishopsgate Police Station when prisoner was brought there. He said, in reply to the charge, that the place was very dark and he threw several parcels out of the back of the van and when he counted the parcels

in the van he found there were five when he ought to have six. I went to Liverpool Street Station, and saw the 11 parcels of "Daily Mirrors." At the place where prisoner had put them there were two lights projecting from the wall and I could see sufficiently to read a newspaper clearly.

Cross-examined. The place where I read the newspaper was where the parcels were placed; it was quite light where the man backed his van


HARRY BILL (Prisoner on oath). I am a carman in the employ of my brother and lived at 81, Stamford Street, Blackfriars, at the time the charge was made. Previously to this no charge has ever been made against me. For the last four years I have collected papers from the publishing offices of the "Daily Mirror" and the "Daily News," and taken them to different railway stations, but Liverpool Street is not one of my usual stations; I think I have only been there a dozen times. The delivery of papers is made in a great hurry; we only get them at the last moment, and have to take them to the station directly they are printed. I had another contract on this night. I had bundles for the Great Eastern and South-Eastern, but I did not know at the time how many. I have heard since that I had 11 for the Great Eastern and five for the South-Eastern. The few times I have had this particular journey I have put the SouthEastern bundles in front and the Great Eastern behind. When I got to Liverpool Street Station on this particular night the light was bad—it was practically dark. I backed my van, but did not let the tail-board down, jumped into the van, and threw the parcels out on to the bank. I thought I had thrown out too many, and turned round and found I had only three parcels for the South-Eastern under the seat. I jumped on to the bank and threw the last three parcels back under the seat with the others, thinking I ought to have six for the South-Eastern. I did not walk nine feet away to fetch the parcel which contained the clothes; it is absolutely false. I then drove out and went straight to the water trough, which is right outside the station and my horse started drinking. It is absolutely false to say that I went out at a sharp trot and refused to stop when called on to do so. The detective came up to me outside, and said I had stolen this particular parcel, which was under the seat with the others. It is true when he pulled out the parcel that I said, "Let me go." I could see how it stood; that the parcel was in my van and I could not get out of it, and I thought it looked black against me. I said, "Do not lock me up; it is the first time I have ever had anything like this happen to me." The parcels of "Daily Mirrors" vary in size and in the way they are done up.

Cross-examined by Mr. J.P. Grain. I did not count the number of parcels I took out and did not know how many there were. I did take up from the bank three parcels and one of them was the parcel

of clothes, but they were all together I only had an idea of the number of parcels I had to deliver at Liverpool Street. I only found out when I was in the van that I had taken some parcels from underneath the seat, which I knew must be for the South-Eastern. I felt and looked as well as I could, but the light was so dark. I did not go three feet away from where I first jumped out to pick up the three parcels I threw into the van. I do not know that I took it from another stack of parcels, I took it from the bank. The detective did not run after me and did not catch hold of the horse's head. I invited him to get into the van in Bishopsgate Street at the trough, where I was watering my horse. I did turn into Middlesex Street, for the reason that I was so stunned, and I thought that if I told the detective how it happened he would look at it as any man would and let me go, but when I could see that it was no good I offered him the 3s. hoping that it might be some good. If I had not turned into Middlesex Street I should not have had time to give any explanation, because the police station is opposite the Great Eastern Railway, and I wanted to avoid it.

Re-examined by Mr. Curtis Bennett. The parcels of "Mirrors" were strewn about on the bank as they were thrown from the van.

ALFRED GAMMON , carman in the employ of Richard Bill. I have been several times to Liverpool Street Station to deliver papers and found it very dark, at times almost impossible to see. I was there this morning and found the top lights alight. The parcels of "Daily Mirrors" vary in size.

Cross-examined. I have generally been to Liverpool Street Station between half-past twelve and one o'clock. There has been an alteration of the lights since September 10—every time you get inside now the lights are put up. There have been no extra lights put on.

FREDERICK HURST , carman in the employ of Richard Bill. I have frequently had to go to Liverpool Street Station and was there just before prisoner was arrested. There is a fairly full light along the bank which give you enough light to see three-parts into your van but not enough to see properly. I have made mistakes when delivering "Daily Mirrors" in the number I have thrown out, and have nearly been dismissed for leaving a parcel in my van. I have struck a match to see through, it being so dark.

Cross-examined. This has happened to me after prisoner's arrest. I have not made any complaint to the company of the want of light, nor to my master. I explained it to Mr. Goldsmith when he stopped me from working and then he let me go back. Since the prisoner's arrest the light has been on full at times.

JOHN WOOD , newsagent. Stockwell Green. I have known prisoner for about four years, and he has collected sums of money for me varying from £12 to £15 at a time. I have always found him honest and trustworthy and have every confidence in him.

RICHARD BILL . I am a brother of the prisoner and have employed him for nearly four years. He has always behaved as an honest man and I have sent him on special jobs.

The jury were unable to agree, and were discharged without giving a verdict.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-51
VerdictsNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > with recommendation
SentencesImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

SMITH, George (46, lighterman) ; stealing 217 iron railway chairs, the goods of the South-Eastern and Chatham Railway Company, and feloniously receiving the same.

Mr. R. A. Gordon prosecuted; Mr. Cecil Fitch defended.

JOSEPH WHITE , 36, Ashburton Grove, Greenwich, store keeper, engineers' department, Augerstein Wharf, South-Eastern and Chatham and Dover Railway Company. It is my duty to take stock of the number of railway chairs kept in the stores. I took stock on September 11 last and found everything correct. On Monday, September 14, I saw the stacks of chairs had been disturbed and 217 were missing to the value of £28. The railway company sometimes sell old chairs as scrap iron, but those sold to Messrs. Livingstone were new.

Cross-examined. I have been employed for 12 years in the same department and took stock frequently. The chairs are kept out in the open and to a person not acquainted with railway works they would not appear to be new chairs.

Re-examined. The 217 chairs which were taken were new chairs and had not been used before.

ALFRED JAMES WILLETT , 2, Newcastle Street, East Greenwich, deputy-foreman to Messrs. Livingstone, Millwall Wharf. It is my duty to be on watch at the wharf. I was on duty on September 13 last and when I went to dinner about one there were no barges lying alongside except two empty ones. When I returned just after three there was a loaded barge named the Harold lying alongside. She was loaded with cast-iron railway chairs. I did not see anybody in charge of her that day, but the next day, September 14, about seven o'clock in the morning, I saw prisoner on her. I asked him where he had got the chairs from, and he said they had come out of a yacht which was being broken up. He asked me if I was going to unload the barge and I referred him to Mr. Sibley, the foreman.

Cross-examined. The barge was brought in in full daylight, and the chairs were stacked up and could be seen plainly by anybody.

FREDERICK SIBLEY , 103, Stevendale Street, Millwall, foreman to Livingstone's. I was on duty at Augerstein Wharf on September 14. About 11 o'clock on that day prisoner came up to me and told me he had got some railway chairs for sale. He took me on a barge, which was lying alongside the wharf, named Harold. I looked at the chairs and called his attention to the stamp which was on them, "S. E. and C. R.," and asked him how he came by them. He said that they had formed the ballast of a yacht which he had broken up. The chairs were piled up properly in the barge and were whole. I said to prisoner that the railway company were not in the habit of selling chairs to small men, and he repeated his statement of their having formed the ballast of a yacht. I believed what he said, and after telephoning to our City office agreed to buy the chairs as scrap iron at a price of 37s. 6d. per ton. I asked prisoner his name and

address, which he gave me as Mr. Smith, of Brunswick Road, Poplar. I gave him a credit note and told him to go to our City office for his money.

Cross-examined. I had seen prisoner before the date he came and offered the chairs for sale, and knew him by the name of Smith. I had had one previous transaction with him. When I saw the chairs they were very rusty, and I was almost convinced that they might have formed the ballast of a yacht owing to their condition. I have bought other metal which has formed the ballast of a yacht; it is commonly sold in our neighbourhood. It is a regulation on the river that a barge has to carry a licensed waterman on board. At the time prisoner came to me I was very busy. I do not think anybody could see the chairs from the wharf because the barge was not lying directly under the wharf but alongside another barge of ours, which was to be loaded. The chairs were taken out of the barge and put on the wharf, and anybody could see them; there was no cover ing over them. I am firmly convinced that prisoner said the chairs had formed the ballast of a yacht which he was breaking up. It would have made a difference to me if he had said he was only acting as an agent, I should have made inquiries, and asked him who he was acting for.

Re-examined. The marks on the iron were very distinct because they were raised, but I had to go aboard the barge to see them; I could not see them from the shore.

JAMES LIVINGSTONE , of J. Livingstone and Son, iron merchants. On Monday, September 14, I received a telephone message from my foremen, Sibley, and later in the day prisoner presented a credit note for scrap iron and asked for payment. I told him I had no money in the office, but would give him a cheque, which I did. He signed the credit note in my presence. I have sold the chairs which were bought to Messrs. Callender for 48s. 6d. per ton as scrap iron.

Detective-Sergeant ALBERT CHATT, R. Division. About 12 o'clock in the morning of September 27, I saw prisoner at 25, Manilla Street, Millwall. I told him I was a police officer, and should arrest him for stealing about 10 tons of railway chairs from Augerstein Wharf, the property of the South-Eastern Railway Company. He replied, "Not me, sir." I conveyed him to Westcombe Park Station. On the way he made rather a long statement. He said, "Do you mean them old railway chairs?" I said, "Yes, those you sold to Livingstone and Sons." He said, "Yes, that is right; a man at Victoria Docks asked me to take them and sell them for him; I did not steal them." In reply to the charge prisoner said, "I did not steal them. I do not know the man I sold them for; I had not seen the man before the morning I took them to sell. He was a full-bearded man, reddish colour. He did not look like a working man. He said his name was Thomas. I saw him at the Pier Head, Victoria Dock. He asked me if I was a lighterman and if I would take a barge up to Livingstone and Sons. I said, "Yes." I took the barge named

Harold. He said it was his barge. I sold it, but I cannot say how much I got for it. I went to the City for the money. I saw him at the Iron Bridge, Canning Town, and paid him £3 or £4. I got 10s. for doing the job." I have inquired at Brunswick Road, Poplar, and find that prisoner has an uncle living there, but has not lived there himself but at Manilla Road, Millwall.

Cross-examined. Prisoner gave no number in Brunswick Road. I know that he has been for many years a lighterman on the Thames. There are a number of George Smiths, lightermen, Who are registered at Waterman's Hall.

Re-examined. I was looking for prisoner for about a fortnight; I could not get hold of an address at all.


GEORGE SMITH (prisoner, on oath). I live at 25, Manilla Street, Millwall, and have been a lighterman for about 30 years. I have never previously to this had any charge brought against me. I was standing on Victoria Dock Pier on Sunday morning, September 13, beween 11 and 12 o'clock, when a gentleman came up to me and said, "Are you a lighterman?" I said, "Yes, sir." He asked me if I would take a barge up to Livingstone's Wharf, and I said, "Yes." He pointed out the barge to me; it was named Harold. He gave me the key of the barge and told me to deliver on Monday as he had got to get away down below. He said he would meet me on the Iron Bridge and I was to take the money to him there. I saw that the goods on the barge were rusty iron railway chairs. I asked him if he would be at Livingstone's to sell them. He said he could not get away. I asked him where they came from and he told me they were ballast from a yacht he had broken up. I took the chairs to Livingstone's Wharf, sold them, and paid the money to him. It is a usual way of doing business; I have often done the same kind of thing. I did not know that the chairs had been stolen; I took them up in the ordinary course of work. I have not previously sold chairs but old iron. I gave the address of my uncle at Brunswick Road because my sister at home opens my letters. I have been in the habit of giving it as my address. The man who came and asked me to do this job gave me the name of Thomas, which name I saw on the barge Harold. I have tried to find Thomas but have not been able to. I told Sibley, the foreman, that the chairs were ballast from a yacht that had been broken up, not from a yacht that I was breaking up. The credit note which has been produced is signed by me in my proper name.

Cross-examined. I did not sell any chairs on September 23 to Messrs. Robinson. I know them and have done business with them. I am charged with stealing chairs from the London, Tilbury, and Southend Railway, but it is not true. I have lived for years at Manilla Street, Millwall. It is the duty of a lighterman to take barges up and down the river, but it is not unusual to sell stuff for people. When I told the sergeant who arrested me that the amount

I gave to the man Thomas was £3 or £4 I had forgotten what the amount of the cheque was. I received 10s. myself.

Re-examined. The cheque was given to me on the 14th and I was not arrested till a fortnight after. I could not recollect what the amount was. I had nothing to do with the chairs which were stolen from the London, Tilbury, and Southend Company.

HARRY GOSLING , secretary of the Waterman's and Lighterman's Society and for 11 years a member of the London County Council. I have known prisoner for 15 years as a licensed waterman, and during that time have always considered him a straight man.

Verdict, Not guilty.

(Saturday, October 24.)

Prisoner was now indicted for stealing 96 iron railway chairs, the goods of the London, Tilbury, and Southend Railway Company, and feloniously receiving the same.

Mr. Frampton and Mr. Eustace Fulton prosecuted; Mr. Whiteley defended.

HORACE HIGBY , a ganger, London, Tilbury, and Southend Railway Company, at the Bromley depot of the Company abutting on the River Lea. Every fortnight I am in the habit of checking the number of railway chairs at the depot, which are stacked about 150 feet from the river. I remember checking the chairs on September 26 and found a number missing. I have since seen some of the missing chairs at the police court, bearing the stamp of the company, "L. T. and S. R."

Cross-examined. I cannot say for certain that the number of chairs was checked on September 12; we usually check them after some have been taken away to be used. The weight of each chair is about 90 lb., and to move 96 would take a considerable time.

Re-examined. I did not notice the chairs were disarranged until September 26; had I noticed anything wrong before, I should have reported it.

By the Court. I should have noticed that the chairs had been taken away on September 12 because the stack would have been disarranged.

JOHN EVERETT , permanent-way inspector L.T. and S.R. Company. It was reported to me on September 26 that a number of chairs were missing. On September 28 I went to Messrs. Robinson's yard at Anchor Wharf and saw a quantity of our chairs there to the value of about £15.

Cross-examined. The chairs were kept in the open at the Bromley depot without any covering over them and piled on top of one another. I did not miss any until September 26.

CHARLES EDWARD ROBINSON , metal dealer, Anchor Wharf, East Greenwich. I have known prisoner by the name of J. Smith for 12 months, and have his name and address in my books. During

that time I have bought scrap-iron from him on three occasions and paid him by cheque. On September 23 prisoner called at the office and asked what price we were paying for old iron chairs. I told him 48s. per ton, and said that chairs had been stolen from the South-Eastern and Chatham Railway Company and warned him to be careful in dealing with iron chairs. He replied, "The chairs I am offering have nothing whatever to do with the South-Eastern Railway; they; have formed part of the ballast of a yacht." I asked him if he had any delivery note or sale note from the people he was dealing with He said, "No," but could get it the following day, if necessary. I then bought from him about two tons 17 cwt. of chairs and paid him a cheque for £5 14s. 6d., which is endorsed J. Smith. I have no doubt at all that it was prisoner who came to my wharf on September 23, and to whom I paid the cheque.

Cross-examined. I remember giving evidence at the police court and did not say anything about my conversation with the prisoner on the wharf because I was not asked. I first saw the prisoner just before one o'clock, and after my conversation with him he went away and returned with the barge between one and two. Prisoner's name is entered in our books as J. Smith, but I have heard since that his real name is George Smith. I know that the prisoner has been charged with stealing chairs from the South-Eastern Railway, but do not know what his defence was. When he offered me the chairs I was convinced that the matter was all right from his answers to me. The previous transactions I have had with him have been satisfactory.

By the Court. I have had 12 transactions recorded in the books with the prisoner.

Cross-examined. I identified prisoner at the police station when called in. I sometimes have as many as 70 people in the day to see on business, and their names and addresses are always entered in a book, which is kept in the lobby and anybody could look at it. I have more than one Smith on my books with whom I do business. My wharf is quite open and anybody transacting business with me can easily be seen.

Re-examined. I went to the police station to identify the person from whom I had bought the chairs, and picked out the prisoner. I should not have bought the chairs if the previous transactions had not been satisfactory.

COLIN IRVING HARDWICK , foreman at Anchor Wharf, Greenwich, to Mr. Robinson. I have known prisoner for 13 months by the name of George Smith, of 2, Blanche Street, Plaistow, and have seen him several times during that period, when he has brought old iron for sale. I saw him on September 23 last at the wharf with a barge containing cast-iron chairs. I asked him where he got them from, and he said, "It is the ballast out of an old yacht that is being broken up." I have no doubt that the prisoner is the man whom I saw on September 23 and had a conversation with.

Cross-examined. When I was taken to the police station I picked prisoner out from about 20 others. I did not know he was in custody at the time. I was asked who had sold the chairs, and told the police George Smith, and was asked to go to the station to identify him. I had no idea that prisoner was the man who had stolen the chairs from the South-Eastern Railway Company, about which the police inquired at our wharf. I did not see any strangers on the front of the wharf on September 23. Every barge has to carry a licensed waterman and he has to carry his certificate with him. I do not think it would be easy for a stranger to use the name and address of a licensed waterman.

Re-examined. I have no doubt it was prisoner whom I saw on September 23 and had a conversation with; I could not mistake him for a pretended waterman.

Detective-sergeant ALBERT CHATT, R Division. I have been in charge of the investigations regarding a number of stolen railway chairs. I called at Robinson's wharf on September 24 and saw the foreman. I had not at that time made any arrest. I arrested prisoner on September 25, and on October 5 outside Greenwich Police Court preferred a further charge against him of stealing the chairs from the Tilbury and Southend Railway Company. He said, "Not me, sir; I do not know anything about it." I said, "The foreman at Messrs. Robinson's knows you well, and he says you brought them there, but as you deny it I shall put you up for identification." He replied, "Very well." He was then asked to take his position amongst 18 other men, and was immediately identified by Hardwick and Robinson as the man who came to their wharf with railway chairs on September 23. I have tried to find Blanche Street, the address given by the prisoner, but have not succeeded.

Cross-examined. I know that prisoner has been a licensed waterman for about 24 years, and this is the first charge that has been made against him. I heard him say, in reply to the charge of stealing chairs from the South-Eastern, that they had been given to him by another man to sell and had formed the ballast of a yacht. In reply to the present charge prisoner did not make any remark about a yacht.


GEORGE SMITH (prisoner, on oath). I have been for 26 years a licensed waterman. I was charged by the South-Eastern Railway Company with stealing chairs but was acquitted. I did not sell the chairs of the Tilbury Railway Company to Messrs. Robinson on September 23, and did not endorse the cheque in payment of them made out to J. Smith. I sometimes have things sent to 2, Blanche Street, Plaistow, and also letters to my uncle's at Brunswick Road, Poplar, because my sister opens my letters at home. A friend of mine named Reeves lives at Blanche Street, Plaistow. I am very well known on the river as a licensed waterman.

Cross-examined. I have been some six or seven times to Anchor Wharf and have seen and conversed with both Mr. Hardwick and Mr. Robinson, and been on good terms with them. I have often been mistaken for somebody else by people who know me. I cannot suggest why Mr. Robinson should say he gave me a cheque on September 23, made out to J. Smith, but I have had cheques from him before in the name of George Smith. I did sell some railway chairs to Messrs. Livingstone on September 14, which I received a cheque for and endorsed, and I admit the two endorsements are very much alike, but I did not endorse the cheque from Messrs. Robinson. I use the different addresses I have given because one is nearer to the docks and the other is nearer to the City.

HARRY GOSLING , secretary of the Watermen and Lightermen's Society, a member of the London County Council. I have known prisoner for about 15 years, and during that time his reputation has been first-class.

Cross-examined. I have seen prisoner very often during that time, generally about once a fortnight.

Verdict, Guilty, with a strong recommendation to mercy on account of prisoner's previous good character.

It was stated that there was no previous conviction against the prisoner. Up till the last 12 months he had borne an irreproachable character, but early this year he commenced to associate with some of the most notorious thieves on the River Thames.

Sentence, Six months' hard labour.


(Saturday, October 24.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-52
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > no evidence
SentencesImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

McGREGOR, Alfred (18, clerk) , pleaded guilty of committing an act of gross indecency with another male person, to wit, Samuel Strong. There was also an indictment charging him with perpetrating an abominable crime, which was not proceeded with, as the evidence was not considered sufficiently strong.

Prisoner had been convicted for larceny and also for soliciting for immoral purposes.

Sentence, Two years' hard labour.


(Monday, October 26.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-53
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

HEAD, William (63, labourer), and GARDINER, John Herbert (coster) ; both stealing one pony and other articles, the goods of John Friend.

Gardiner pleaded guilty .

Mr. Macdonald prosecuted.

JOHN FRIEND , costermonger, 22, Havelock Road, Hackney. On the night of October 7 I left my pony and barrow at the corner of Arthur Street, Well Street, while I was attending my fruit stall. I had been at the stall about five minutes when Head came up and spoke to me. The stall is about 12 ft. from the corner of the street where I had left the pony. Head said, "Trade is very bad, Jack." I was selling some tomatoes, and I answered, "Yes, trade is very quiet." Gardiner walked by with a sack underneath his arm and nodded to Head to go with him and the two went away together. Ten minutes afterwards I walked across the road to take my pony home to the stable and found it was gone. I could usually see the place where I left the pony from my stall, but this evening was a bit foggy. This occurred at half-past six or a quarter to seven, and it was also getting dark. I knew Head and Gardiner well.

WILLIAM REYNOLDS , costermonger, Leyton. On the night of October 7, as I was coming out of my stable, I saw prisoners with a pony and barrow standing outside. I heard Gardiner asking some boys if they knew where "Baker boy" (my nickname) was. I walked up and he said, "Here you are. I have a pony here what will suit you. Jump up." I was not wanting a pony particularly. I did jump up and we went to the "Beaumont Arms." There I asked how much they reckoned for the pony, and Head said, "Six quid. Jump up along with me and have a ride." I said I had just bought a donkey and harness, and had not the money. Gardiner said, "You can get it off the governor," a man named Watts. Gardiner and I then walked outside and got on to the barrow to go for a ride. On the way we met Watts. We went back to the public-house and Watts tried to buy the pony and barrow of him.

JAMES WATTS , coster, 116, Skelton's Road, Leyton. On October 7 I saw prisoner Gardiner outside the "Beaumont Arms" about 10 o'clock at night as I was going home. I was coming down the lane when I saw Gardiner in the barrow. He pulled me up, and said, "I have got a pony for sale." He jumped out of the cart and we both went into the "Beaumont Arms." Head was there. Gardiner started about selling a pony. Head took part in the conversation. Gardiner asked me £6 for the pony, and Head said, "Sell it." I went to look at the pony to see if it was a kicker. I said, "I do not want to buy any kickers for £6." I then said to Gardiner, "Whose pony is it?" He said he had got it to sell for a man because it kicked. Head was there at the time, but said nothing. I said it was not worth £6. Head said, "Sell it. Take him back anything if he has told you to sell it." Eventually I paid him £4 for it and he gave me Is. back for luck and I gave the shilling to Head. We went outside as it was closing time, and we had a ride as far as the tram. Gardiner said, "I will drive." I said, "No, I think as I have bought it I will drive it." He could not make the pony kick. I said, "Take it to the police station and see if it is all right before you put it away." We took it down to the station and there was a statement on the charge-sheet that it had been lost. The sergeant in charge said, "Take the policeman, and see if you can find the man

you bought it of." I said that prisoners were on the cart. Going down the road, the night being foggy, we missed them. I gave a description of the prisoners.

To Head. You said to Gardiner, "Sell it. Look at the damage you have done to its legs." I looked at its legs; they were bleeding and broken open.

Police-constable ALFRED ROGERS, 672 V. At 1.30, on the morning of October 8, I was on duty in Colley Road, Homerton, where I saw prisoner Head with two other men. I told him that in consequence of what I had been told I should arrest him for being concerned with another man named Gardiner, not in custody, in stealing a horse, trap, and harness the previous evening. He said, "It is stealing now, is it? Well, I did have a hand in it. He (Gardiner) said he could sell it for £4 10s. I took him to Leyton and had my bit. We drove there with a barrow. She is a good goer. The damage to her hind legs was done through Gardiner losing the reins. They got under her tail and she let go. I know that is how it was done because I saw it done." Later on he said, "I saw Gardiner in Morning Lane. He asked me to go for a ride. He said I was only on 2s. We went to Leyton." As to Head being on 2s., it appeared to me as if he was expecting some money. He was searched at the station, and there were found on him a knife, 6d. in silver and 5d. bronze.

Head denied that he said he had a hand in selling the pony, and said that he told witness he knew nothing whatever about the pony being stolen.

Detective-sergeant HERBERT TAYLOR. At 12.30 p.m., on October 8, I saw Gardiner at the station. I told him he would be charged with stealing the pony—Gardiner had given himself up. He said, in answer to the charge, "I come to give myself up. I sold it. Head had nothing to do with it. I got £4 for it. Head had 1s. It is all through Mann, Crossman's. When I woke up I had only 1s. 6d. The reference to Mann, Crossman's meant that he had got drunk. He did not say anything when he was charged.

The Recorder held that this witness's evidence could not be taken, his story having reference to a statement made by a prisoner who had pleaded guilty.


WILLIAM HEAD (prisoner, on oath), said he was talking to a friend in Well Street on the night this happened. Gardiner came along and gave him a nod to go over to him. He did so and Gardiner said, "Will you come for a ride to Walthamstow? I am going to, see a man about two donkeys to bring them home." He said he would get 4s., and if witness went with him to help him he would give him 2s. out of it. He got on to the barrow and in Morning Lane noticed that Gardiner had got no light. Gardiner said he was going to buy one, and witness said, "You need not buy one I have got one at home." Gardiner then said, "If you have got a halter indoors or a piece of line bring it along. We can tie the donkeys

Cross-examined. The place where I read the newspaper was where the parcels were placed; it was quite light where the man backed his van


HARRY BILL (Prisoner on oath). I am a carman in the employ of my brother and lived at 81, Stamford Street, Blackfriars, at the time the charge was made. Previously to this no charge has ever been made against me. For the last four years I have collected papers from the publishing offices of the "Daily Mirror" and the "Daily News," and taken them to different railway stations, but Liverpool Street is not one of my usual stations; I think I have only been there a dozen times. The delivery of papers is made in a great hurry; we only get them at the last moment, and have to take them to the station directly they are printed. I had another contract on this night. I had bundles for the Great Eastern and South-Eastern, but I did not know at the time how many. I have heard since that I had 11 for the Great Eastern and five for the South-Eastern. The few times I have had this particular journey I have put the SouthEastern bundles in front and the Great Eastern behind. When I got to Liverpool Street Station on this particular night the light was bad—it was practically dark. I backed my van, but did not let the tail-board down, jumped into the van, and threw the parcels out on to the bank. I thought I had thrown out too many, and turned round and found I had only three parcels for the South-Eastern under the seat. I jumped on to the bank and threw the last three parcels back under the seat with the others, thinking I ought to have six for the South-Eastern. I did not walk nine feet away to fetch the parcel which contained the clothes; it is absolutely false. I then drove out and went straight to the water trough, which is right outside the station and my horse started drinking. It is absolutely false to say that I went out at a sharp trot and refused to stop when called on to do so. The detective came up to me outside, and said I had stolen this particular parcel, which was under the seat with the others. It is true when he pulled out the parcel that I said, "Let me go." I could see how it stood; that the parcel was in my van and I could not get out of it, and I thought it looked black against me. I said, "Do not lock me up; it is the first time I have ever had anything like this happen to me." The parcels of "Daily Mirrors" vary in size and in the way they are done up.

Cross-examined by Mr. J.P. Grain. I did not count the number of parcels I took out and did not know how many there were. I did take up from the bank three parcels and one of them was the parcel

alongside the pony." They went round to witness's place and got the light and a halter, too. Gardiner drove about two miles the other side of Hoe Street, pulled up at a public-house, and said, "This is where I am supposed to meet the man." Not seeing the man he wanted to see he drove to the next public-house. Then they came back to the first public-house and stopped again. Then they started for home. At Hoe Street Station Gardiner had to pull up sharp because of the electric tram, and as he did so the barrow came forward and the rein got under the pony's tail causing it to kick and damage its legs. Witness got a shilling on the sale, it being a general thing for dealers to give something away after a bargain. He held out his cap and the buyer put 1s. into it.

Prisoner GARDINER also gave evidence on oath. Meeting Head on the night in question, about seven o'clock, he asked him if he wanted to earn 2s. by going to Walthamstow, where witness was going to see a man about two donkeys. He said to Head he was going to take 4s. and Head should have 2s. of it. Head provided a light and a halter. (Prisoner also gave evidence as to the way in which the pony was injured and particulars of the deal.)

Verdict, Head, Not guilty.

Sentence on Gardiner, who has been previously convicted, Nine months' hard labour.


20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-54
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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MUZZICATO, Santo (29, musician) ; knowingly uttering on April 26, 1908, with intent to defraud, a counterfeit order for the payment of money, resembling a banknote of the Banca d'Italia, for the payment of 50 francs, well knowing the same to be false and counterfeit; obtaining by false pretences, with intent to defraud, from Genevieve Tiranti, the sum of 36s. 6d., the goods of John Tiranti; knowingly uttering, with intent to defraud, on August 29, 1908, a counterfeit order for the payment of money, resembling a bank note of the Banca D'Italia for the payment of 50 francs, well knowing the same to be false and counterfeit; obtaining by false pretences, with intent to defraud, from Luigi Goria the sum of 30s., the goods of Caterino Bogiro.

Mr. M. G. Fleming prosecuted.

GENEVIEVE TIRANTI , 10, Poland Street. I let lodgings. On April 26. 1908, prisoner came and asked for a room for another man who was with him. I said I had one at 3s. 6d. a week, which I showed him and which he took. I asked for a week's rent in advance. Prisoner said he had no English money, and asked the other man for an Italian note for 50 francs or £2, which the other man took from his pocket and which prisoner handed to me. The other man took the room, but prisoner was the one that spoke. I thought it was a

good note, and handed him 36s. 6d. change. I have no knowledge of Italian notes. Prisoner said he was going to fetch the luggage from Victoria Station for the other man and would be back in a few minutes. I never saw him again until I saw him at the Court. Prisoner two years ago lodged with me for a few weeks.

Cross-examined. I asked the prisoner if he knew the man that was with him; he said, "No," he did not know him. It was prisoner who said he had no English money. The other man took the change—36s. 6d.

Detective SEYMOUR, V Division. On Sept 16, 1908, at 10.30 a.m. I saw prisoner in Old Compton Street. I told him I was a police officer, and should take him into custody for uttering on August 26 a false Italian banknote and obtaining 36s. 6d. from mrs. Tiranti, of 10, Poland Street He said, "Yes, that is right. I went there with another man for lodgings, who had the notes. I have not seen the man since." He was taken to Tottenham Court Road Police Station and charged. He said, "I did not steal the money, the other man had the notes."

To prisoner. Mr. Taranti was with me when I arrested prisoner. There was something said in Italian between prisoner and Taranti. The words prisoner said to me were, "I went with another man for lodgings, who had the notes. I have not seen the man since."

LINGUI GORIA , waiter, Trocadero Restaurant, Piccadilly Circus. On August 29 I served prisoner and another gentleman with supper. When they came in at first he said, "Are you Italian?" I said, "Yes, sir." He said, "I am very glad to meet somebody Italian, because we only arrived this morning from Italy; we cannot speak a word of English." He said this in Italian. He said he wanted something to eat. They sat at the table, and had a cutlet, wine, cheese, etc. Prisoner asked for the bill, and took out 50 franc or £2 Italian note from his pocket (produced), and said, "Can you change me this 50 francs?" I said, "I do not know about Italian money, because I have been away for 20 years from Italy." He said, "Will you try to change it; we are strangers here. Send it to somebody to change it." I said, "It is no use to send anywhere to change it now, because everything is closed at this time." It was Saturday night. I took it to the bar and asked the missis if she would change it; she refused, and I took it back to the table. Prisoner said, "We changed one this morning and have spent it all; we have not got any English money at all." If you do not give me all the amount, give on account only, and I will come in tomorrow to fetch the rest of the change." I told the missis, and she said she would give him 30s. if he wanted the money. I took him £1 10s. in gold; he returned the half sovereign, and I gave him the change, deducting 5s. 2d. for my bill, leaving him 25s. He said, "I do not like that; you have taken away 5s. from that; I want more than that." He asked for the governor. I said the governor was not there. He then went to the missis at the other bar. He asked for the address, and I gave him one of our cards; he never came back again. I saw him next at the

Court on September 24, and identified him. I had never seen him before.

Cross-examined. Prisoner did not ask me if I knew him; I did not know him. Prisoner did not offer me a drink.

CATERINO BOGIRO , proprietor of Trocadero Restaurant, New Oxford Street. On August 29 I received 50 franc note produced from prisoner, whom I identify. I gave him 30s.; there was 5s. paid for the dinner, leaving 5s. to come to him. He came to the door and said, "There is 5s. to come to me." I said, "You had better wait; I do not know the amount of money; if you want the 5s. I will send out and get it changed when I know it exactly." He said, "Then I will come tomorrow to get the change. I will trust you, but I will not trust any waiter." I saw him again in court on September 24.

Cross-examined. I gave him 30s., and out of that he paid for the supper.

Sergeant THOMAS DAVIS, E Division. On September 24 I showed prisoner, who was in custody, torn 50 franc note produced. He said in English he knew nothing about it. He was placed with nine other men as nearly as possible of his own description. Goria and Bogiro immediately identified him. He said to Mme. Bogiro, "Are you quite sure you know met?" He also swore at Mme. Bogiro in Italian. He had then been in custody for a week. He said he was hungry and I got him some bread and cheese.

FREDERICK DODARO , clerk in the chief foreign exchange of the Credit Lyonnaise Bank. The two 50 franc notes produced are bad Italian notes; they are not very well imitated; they are not a bad forgery.

Prisoner produced discharges showing that he had served in the band of the Italian Royal Navy from November, 1902, to April, 1903, and from September, 1907, to February, 1908, and that he had left at his own request with character "Very good."

Verdict, Guilty. Sentence, Six months' hard labour; recommended for expulsion under the Aliens' Act.


(Monday, October 26.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-55
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > no evidence; Not Guilty > unknown

Related Material

CROSS, Henry (53, picture-frame maker), and TAYLOR, David (16, dealer) , stealing one bicycle, the goods of Bert Egerton, and receiving the same well knowing it to have been stolen. Stealing one bicycle, the goods of Percy James Pallant, receiving the same well knowing it to have been stolen; WILSON, John (19, butcher) , stealing one bicycle and other articles the goods of Alfred James Austin, stealing one bicycle the goods of Percy James Pallant, and receiving the same well knowing them to have been stolen. Wilson pleaded guilty.

Dr. Counsell prosecuted; Mr. Huntly Jenkins and Mr. A. J. Laurie defended Henry Cross. Mr. R. W. Burnie defended David Taylor.

PERCY JAMES PALLANT , stationer, 125, Blackstock Road. I had in my possession on August 27 last a Royal Enfield bicycle valued at £8 15s. On that date I left my machine outside 23, Lordship Park, and in my absence it was stolen. On August 29 I saw prisoner Wilson, who I was informed had stolen the bicycle, at Manor Park in company with prisoner Taylor on a tramcar. I next saw my bicycle at the North London Police Court on September 19. I had previously seen an advertisement in an Islington newspaper advertising a Royal Enfield bicycle, also a B. S. A. bicycle, and in consequence gave information to the police. Knowing a Mr. Bert Egerton had had a B. S. A. bicycle stolen, I asked him to go to the shop of the prisoner Cross, who had inserted the advertisement, to identify the machines.

Cross-examined by Mr. Laurie. It was because the advertisement so accurately represented my machine that I went to the police. The machine when I saw it at the police court was in absolutely the same condition as when in my possession, nothing had been done to disguise it. I had had the bicycle in my possession for about three weeks, having paid £8 15s. for it.

Cross-examined by Mr. Burnie. I saw the prisoner Taylor speak to Wilson when he got on the car. I am not sure whether I have mentioned before that I saw Taylor and Wilson talking together, but I think I told the police at the North London Police Station.

THOMAS GROUT . I identify the prisoner Wilson as the man who came up to me on August 27 last, and asked me whose bicycle was standing outside 23, Lordship Park. I told him it was Mr. Pallant's. He walked up and down by the side of the bicycle for a little while and then got on it and rode away. I identified the prisoner Wilson on September 14 at the police court.

STANLEY SCOTT . I identify Wilson as the man I saw riding on a bicycle in Lordship Park on August 27. I afterwards identified him on September 14 at the police court.

BERT EGERTON . In consequence of a communication from Mr. Pallant, whom I know, I visited the shop of the prisoner Cross on September 8, accompanied by two detective-officers (who remained outside) and asked to see the Royal Enfield and B. S. A. bicycles which he had advertised for sale and was informed they had been sold the day before. He gave me a card bearing the name and address of Mr. Martin, 101, Eldon Road, Wood Green, as the person to whom he had sold them. I visited Mr. Martin and identified the B. S. A machine as being the one stolen from me, but the Royal Enfield bicycle had been sent away.

Cross-examined by Mr. Laurie. Cross himself wrote the name and address of Mr. Martin on the card after a long conversation. I admit I found everything he had stated to be correct with regard to my own bicycle.

EDWARD MARTIN , carpenter, 101, Eldon Road, Wood Green. I visited the shop of the prisoner Cross in consequence of a postcard which he sent me dated September 5, stating that he had two bicycles for sale which might suit me. He showed me a Royal Enfield bicycle and a B. S. A. bicycle, and said that the Royal Enfield had been left to him for a debt. I paid him £2 15s. for it and £2 for the B. S. A.

By the Court. I am not a bicycle dealer, but sometimes sell bicycles to a gentleman in the country who asked me to buy one or two for him.

Cross-examined by Mr. Burnie. I had previously visited Cross in answer to another advertisement in the paper, and he promised when he had any bicycles for sale he would write to me. He did not mention from whom he had bought the machines.

Cross-examined by Mr. Laurie. I gave £2 15s. for the Royal Enfield bicycle and was paid the same amount; I thought the price was reasonable for a second-hand machine.

Detective JOHN CLARK. On Tuesday, September 8, accompanied by Sergeant Quiller and Mr. Egerton, I went to Cross's shop, but remained outside. I afterwards went to the house of Edward Martin and was shown a receipt given by the prisoner Cross for £4 15s. for the two bicycles advertised. The B.S.A. machine was identified, but the Royal Enfield was got back from Lincoln, where it had been sent. After September 8 I kept observation on Cross's shop, and on the 10th saw Taylor call there. On September 14, accompanied by Sergeant Pullen, I visited Cross's shop and stated that we had called to make inquiries as to two bicycles which he had advertised, and which had been sold to a Mr. Edward Martin. Sergeant Pullen asked him if he could account for the two bicycles and Cross said, "I bought them from the boy Taylor at Chapel Street." Taylor lives at 15, White Conduit Street. Sergeant Pullen then asked Cross if he could produce anything which would prove where he bought the bicycles. He said, "No, I have got nothing." He was then told that he would be arrested for receiving stolen bicycles, well knowing them to have been stolen. He said, "I admit I bought them, but I did not know they were stolen." On September 15 I arrested Taylor at 15, White Conduit Street.

Cross-examined by Mr. Laurie. All the statements made by Cross were found to be correct, and, owing to them, we were able to trace the machines.

Cross-examined by Mr. Burnie. Taylor was not present when Cross made the statement that he bought the bicycle from a man in chapel Street.

Detective-sergeant PULLEN. The loss of Pallant's bicycle was made known to the police in the ordinary way. In consequence of a communication received from Egerton, accompanied by Detective Clark, I visited the neighbourhood of the shop of the prisoner Cross, and afterwards called at the house

of Mr. Edward Martin, and saw there the B.S.A. bicycle. I arrested Wilson on September 13 and charged him with the theft. The next day I went to the premises of the prisoner Cross, accompanied by Detective Clark. I told him we were police officers inquiring about two bicycles which he had sold to a Mr. Edward Martin. I asked him if he could account for them and who he got them from. He said, "I bought them from a boy named Taylor, who lives in Chapel Street." I asked him if he could produce any receipts or show any records in his books of the purchase. He said, "No, I have got nothing." I then told him that we should arrest him for receiving the bicycles. He said, "I admit I bought them, but I did not know they were stolen." When leaving the premises Cross turned to his wife and said, "I gave you those receipts; where are they?" and the wife produced receipts, including one for a Royal Enfield bicycle for 32s.

Cross-examined by Mr. Laurie. Cross gave all assistance in tracing the missing bicycle. I have made inquiries as to his character, and find he bears a stainless reputation and has never been known to do a dishonest act, and has been carrying on his present business for the last 13 years.

Mr. Burnie submitted that there was no evidence against Taylor of stealing or receiving; and, His Lordship agreeing, the Jury returned a verdict of Not guilty.


HENRY CROSS (prisoner, on oath). I have carried on business at my present address as a picture frame maker for thirteen years and have occasionally had little dabbles in the purchase and sale of cycles. I have known the lad Taylor and his father for a great number of years and have never heard anything against them. The Royal Enfield bicycle was brought to me in broad daylight by the lad Taylor. It was in a very dirty condition, and he said a man he knew well had brought it to his stall in Chapel Street for him to sell. I paid him 32s. for it and he gave me a receipt. I advertised the machine for sale in the "Islington Gazette," giving as accurate a description of it as I could. I did not know the bicycle had been stolen. I afterwards sold the machine to Mr. Martin for 55s. I remember someone calling about September 8 about my advertisement, and I gave the address of the gentleman to whom I had sold it. When the police officers came on September 14 they did not ask me for any receipt till the last thing, and I then produced them altogether. I had handed them to my wife some days before. I have given the police every assistance I could to trace the bicycle.

Cross-examined by Dr. Counsell Counsell. When the police officers came to me on September 14 they told me they were making inquiries respecting a bicycle I had sold to Mr. Martin. I said, "Well, you do not mean it; you cannot mean it." They asked me how many I had bought, and I told them my son had bought two and I all the others. When they asked me to account for my possession of the Royal Enfield

bicycle I told them I had bought it from a man named Taylor, of Chapel Street, which is at the corner of White Conduit Street. I saw Taylor sign the receipt which has been produced. Taylor was in the habit of dealing in bicycles, but I did not employ him to get them for me. I was constantly doing business with his father, and did not think there was any need to ask him where he got the bicycle from. It is not true that I told Sergeant Pullen when he asked me if I could produce any receipt or any record that I said, "No, I have got nothing." I had other bicycles on the premises, which the officers could see. I have no notice over my shop saying that I am a dealer in bicycles. I only bought bicycles from people I knew well. I deny I told Mr. Martin that the Royal Enfield bicycle was left for a debt; I had no cause to say so.

Reexamined. As I am not a recognised dealer in bicycles I have to advertise when I have any for sale. I have never bought a bicycle from any person who I did not know to have a good character.

CHARLES CHARD , 29, College Street, Liverpool Road, Islington. I have known prisoner Cross for a period of between 13 and 14 years and have always known him as one of the best and most honourable men I have ever met.

Cross-examined. I have not known him as a dealer in bicycles.

Mrs. ANNIE JACKS, 180A, Liverpool Road, Islington. Prisoner has been my tenant for four or five years, and I have always found him honest in all dealings, and I believe him to be hardworking and honest.

Cross-examined. I have not known him as a cycle dealer.

SAMUEL CURRIE , 363, Liverpool Road, Islington. I have known Cross for between four and five years. I have always known him as a very hardworking and honest man.

Verdict (Cross), Not guilty.


(Tuesday, October 27.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-56
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > unknown; Not Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

CROSS, Henry (53, picture-frame maker), TAYLOR, David (16, dealer) and WILSON, John (19, butcher) were now indicted for the stealing and receiving of a bicycle, the goods of Albert Charles Bice; Wilson pleaded guilty .

Dr. Counsell prosecuted; Mr. Huntly Jenkins defended Cross; Mr. Burnie and Mr. Fox Davies defended Taylor.

ALBERT CHARLES BICE , 106, Williams Park Road, Harringay. On September 9 I left my bicycle outside 110, Williams Park Road. When I came out after an absence of about four minutes it had disappeared. I next saw it at North London Police Court on September 15 and identified it as my property. I gave £2 15s. for it, and have

had it from 3 1/2 to four years. My father is a builder, and I used the bicycle for carrying messages from one job to the other.

Detective JOHN CLARKE, Metropolitan Police. On September 10, I followed prisoner Taylor from prisoner Cross's shop, 180, Liverpool Road, Islington, where he had taken a "Swift" bicycle. I arrested Taylor on the morning of September 15 in White Conduit Street, Islington, where he lives with his father. I charged him with stealing Bice's bicycle. He said: "I admit I have taken two or three bicycles to Cross's shop and sold them, but I got them at sales." He was then taken to Stoke Newington Police Station and charged, and made no reply.

To Mr. Huntly Jenkins. Taylor's father is a dealer and keeps a stall in White Conduit Street. He deals in all manner of things and has done for a number of years. I do not know that he has half a dozen men buying on his behalf in different parts of London, but I do not think that can be possible, because he has not got the means. Young Taylor assists him in his business. Cross has lived in the neighbourhood for years, and is respected by his neighbours.

(Wednesday, October 28.)

Detective-sergeant ERNEST PULLEN. Accompanied by another officer I visited Cross's shop on September 14. I stated that we were police officers, and had come there to make certain inquiries. I asked him what bicycles he had bought. He said: "Only two." Those were two he had advertised for sale. I then arrested him, and afterwards searched the premises. He said: "I have got three upstairs." I then went up into the passage at the back of the shop, leading from the front door. There I found a "Hare" bicycle, the one identified by Bice, and also a "Swift" bicycle. I asked him if he had receipts, and he produced a receipt for the "Swift" bicycle only. In the back kitchen I found the "Springfield" bicycle belonging to Mr. Williamson. With regard to that one Cross said: "I bought that last week for 25s. from prisoner Taylor," and he also said that he paid 15s. for the "Hare" bicycle, which he also bought from Taylor. I told him I should take possession of the machines, and took him into custody. Before he left the premises he asked me if he could speak to his wife. I said: "Yes, in our presence." He then said to his wife: "Where are those receipts I gave you?" She at once produced five receipts and laid them on the table, and another one was produced by Cross's son. Taylor admitted at the police court that the receipts had been signed by him. The receipt for the "Springfield" bicycle, 25s., was signed by Taylor twice. It appears that on the first occasion he received 5s. and 8s. at another time, and he does not seem to have had the whole amount for that bicycle. There is a receipt for a "Royal Enfield" bicycle bought for 32s., signed "David Taylor"; a receipt for a "B.S.A." machine, bought for 22s., signed "David Taylor," and another receipt for a bicycle purchased for 30s., of which 15s. and 10s. had been advanced and

signed "David Taylor" twice. The receipt for the "Swift" bicycle bought for £1 10s. it signed simply "Taylor." When charged at the station Cross said: "Yes, I admit buying them, and what my son has done I will be responsible for." Before these proceedings were instituted there was nothing against the characters of either of the prisoners.

To Mr. Huntly Jenkins. When I went to Cross's premises I was inquiring about two bicycles which had been sold to a Mr. Martin, of Eldon Road, Wood Green, on the 5th. Those two bicycles had, in fact, been advertised by Cross, giving his name and address, and through that advertisement any persons who had such bicycles would be able to trace them. Prisoner Cross gave me every assistance to get them back and gave a perfectly truthful account of the purchase. When Taylor went to Liverpool Road we had been keeping observation on Cross's shop. When Cross said he had only bought two machines from Taylor, I understood him to be referring to the two he had sold to Mr. Martin. The bicycles in the passage could be seen by anybody coming to the door. There was no concealment.

To Mr. Fox Davies. We had no suspicions against Taylor, but we were keeping observation on prisoner Cross's shop, and Taylor was seen to go there.

ALEXANDER CLERK WILLIAMSON , artist, Cricklewood. On September 2 I had a "Springfield" bicycle, which I value at £3. On that day I left it outside the "Hornsey Wood Tavern," Seven Sisters Road. When I came out two minutes afterwards it was gone. It is rather a high machine. I informed the police, and next saw it at Stoke Newington Police Station on September 16 or 17.

To Mr. Huntly Jenkins. I have had the machine some time, but, of course, I have had new things added to it.


HENRY CROSS (prisoner, on oath). I have lived at 180, Liverpool Road, Islington, about 14 years and carry on business there as a picture-frame maker. Up to the present there has never been any charge against me. I have known David Taylor since he was a boy of four. I know his father and brother and have been to sales with them. His father is a job buyer of all sorts of things and buys picture-frame mouldings in large quantities. He employs a number of men to assist him, and at every sale I have been to there has always been three or four men with him. His son, David, also assists in the business. I have never denied that I bought these five bicycles from the son. I only began to buy them towards the end of August. Taylor came to me with a bicycle and gave me to understand it belonged to a young man whom he had known for some years who was going away for a holiday and, being hard up, had brought it to Taylor's father's stall to sell for him. I think that would be the "Royal Enfield," one of the two sold to Martin. The next was one with a three-speed gear, which was also sold to Martin. That

Taylor said he had bought cheap at a sale. The third one I bought would be the "Springfield," which he said a party had brought to his father's stall for sale. The next one was the "Hare," which he said belonged to a man who was waiting for him across the road, and that he was acting as salesman. I did not think there was any necessity to see the man, because I knew Taylor to be a salesman. The last one I bought was the "Swift." I bought it for my son from Taylor, who said a man had left it at his father's stall to be sold on commission. I advertised the two bicycles sold to Martin in the "Islington Daily Gazette," and afterwards two others, those which are now the subject of inquiry, Mr. Bice's and Mr. Williamson's. The three bicycles which the police found in the passage could be seen by anybody coming to the door, the lodgers, the milkman, and the butcher. The door was open at times. In fact the bicycles were more in the shop than they were in the passage and were taken out through the shop to be tried by customers, but they could not reach the "Springfield," because it was too high, being a 28-in. machine, and I could not sell it at all. I have plenty of witnesses to prove that all these machines had been taken to pieces in the shop and seen by many people. Receipts passed when I bought the machines.

The Jury having heard Cross's statement said, in answer to the Recorder, that they thought Cross, having known Taylor from boyhood and knowing his family well, might reasonably have thought that Taylor's stories were true, and returned a verdict of Not guilty as regards Cross.

Prisoner TAYLOR also gave evidence on oath and stated that the bicycles were brought to him by the prisoner Wilson, who had now pleaded guilty to stealing the bicycle belonging to Pallant. Wilson told him that he was a buyer, the same as his father was, a dealer, and if witness could dispose of the bicycles he would give him a commission. Wilson was waiting outside Cross's shop every time witness went there to sell a bicycle, and he admitted that the accounts he had given Cross as to how he became possessed of the bicycles were untrue.

Verdict (Taylor), Not guilty, and the jury expressed the desire that he should be cautioned, as he was very untruthful.

The Recorder, in discharging the prisoners, told them that they had been in very great peril, and he hoped this would be a warning to them.

A previous conviction was proved against Wilson of stealing a pony, van, and harness.

Detective-sergeant PRIDE stated that there was also an indictment upon the file for stealing a bicycle. Since his release in November last he had been bound over before Mr. Justice Grantham at Hertford Assizes on a charge of stealing another bicycle, and is still under recognisances.

Sentence, Eighteen months' hard labour.


(Monday, October 26.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-57
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > with recommendation
SentenceMiscellaneous > sureties; Miscellaneous > sureties

Related Material

STEELE, Archie, and RICHARDSON, Robert (20, engineer) , Steele obtaining by false pretences from August Imbert two pieces of chiffon, the goods of William Cave and another, with intent to defraud; Richardson obtaining by false pretences from F. K. Charles Hilling six pieces of chirfon, the goods of William Cave and another, with intent to defraud. Steele pleaded guilty .

Mr. J. MacMahon prosecuted; Mr. A. J. Lawrie and Mr. Huntly Jenkins defended Richardson; Mr. Eustace Fulton appeared for Steele.

FREDERICK CHARLES HILLING , clerk to Cave and Benoist, 137, Cheapside. On September 25 last, about four o'clock, prisoner Richardson called at 137, Cheapside, and asked for two boxes of chiffon, saying they were for Messrs. Felgate and Dunnett, who were customers of ours. The goods were supplied, and he gave a receipt for them in my presence.

Cross-examined by Mr. Lawrie. I had never seen Richardson before. It was in answer to my question that he said the goods were for Felgate's. I would not be certain that he asked for them according to sample.

GEORGE NICHOLS , stock keeper at Messrs. Felgate and Dunnett, Friday Street. I do not know Richardson, and he has never been employed by my firm.

Cross-examined by Mr. Lawrie. I know Steele; up to the end of June last he had been in the employ of my firm, and would possibly have had to obtain goods from Cave and Benoist in the manner adopted by the prisoner Richardson.

Police-constable WILLIAM BARKER, City. On September 25, in company with Detetctive Kirby, at about 4.20 in the afternoon, I saw Richardson, without a hat on, outside 137, Cheapside, with a brown paper parcel, with Steele and another man. We followed them from there through various streets to a public-house, and after they left there, Richardson then wearing a soft felt hat, to St. Paul's Church-yard, where we stopped them. I spoke to Richardson and asked him where he had got the parcel he was carrying. He told me from Messrs. Cave and Benoist. I said: "Had you any right to bring that parcel from there?" He said: "Yes, I work for Felgate and Dunnett, of Friday Street," and he produced an invoice. I then said he would have to go to the police station for inquiries. He said: "Do let me go; my firm are waiting particularly for this parcel; you have made a great mistake."

Cross-examined by Mr. Lawrie. It is quite impossible that I made any mistake with regard to the remarks Richardson made to me. I know now that Steele has once been employed by Felgate and Dunnett, and that Richardson is in another employment and bears a good character. The other man who was arrested with Steele and Richardson for being in their company was discharged by the magistrate. I did not see Richardson before he came out of 137,

Cheapside, carrying a parcel. I then saw him look across the road to Steele and another man, whom we had been watching. They crossed the road and joined him, and walked in the direction of Paternoster Row. The route followed by the prisoners would be the proper one if they were going to Blackfriars Bridge, but not for Felgate and Dunnett's, where Richardson said he was going. Steele was arrested by Detective Kirby, but I did not hear what he said. I do not remember corroborating Detective Kirby's evidence at the police court. I made my notes about a quarter of an hour after the charge was made. I do not remember Richardson saying that Steele had asked him to get the parcel, nor that I asked him where he got the hat he was wearing after coming out of the public-house, and he said: "It is mine, I bought it."

(Tuesday, October 27.)

Detective-sergeant ALFRED KIRBY, City. On September 25, about 20 minutes past four, I was in Cheapside in company with Police-constable William Barker and saw Steele and another man acting in a manner which aroused our suspicions. We watched them. In about five minutes Richardson came out of 137, Cheapside, without a hat on and carrying a parcel. Steele and the other man hurried after him and joined him within 20 yards of Gutter Lane. They all three went into a public-house and remained in deep conversation for a few minutes and then came out, Richardson then wearing a hat. I called a uniformed constable and followed them into St. Paul's Churchyard and stopped them. I told them we were police officers and by their actions we had every reason to believe that the parcel they were carrying was stolen. Steele replied, "I am a commission agent for Felgate and Dunnett. I asked Richardson to go into Messrs. Cave and Benoist, 137, Cheapside." The third man, Scopes, replied, "What is it all about? I know nothing about it." Richardson made a statement to Detective Barker which I could not hear, and I saw him produce an invoice and show it to the officer. On the way to the station Steele said, "From what I can see of things I am in hot water," and at the station he said, "I am a commission agent for Cave and Benoist," contradicting his previous statement.

Cross-examined by Mr. Laurie. I did not know till I made inquiries that Steele had purchased goods two days before from Cave and Benoist. I cannot corroborate Detective Barker's evidence as to his conversation with Richardson, because they were walking ahead of me. At the time Steele and the man Scopes were waiting, the traffic was very quiet and I was able to watch exactly what happened. Richardson was overtaken by Steele and Scopes in about 20 yards. I admit that the route they followed would have been a good one to take if they were going to Blackfriars Bridge.


ROBERT RICHARDSON (prisoner, on oath). I live at 81, Jeffreys Road, Clapham, with my mother, and keep up the household. I am an electrician, and have a business, in partnership with Alexander

Scopes, whom I have known for a good many years. I have known the prisoner Steele for about nine months, but had only been in his company about 20 minutes before September 25. On that day I had been to one or two shops in Brixton on business with Scopes, and the prisoner Steele came up and asked us what we were doing. We told him we were not feeling fit, having been to an all-night party and had nothing to do, but we had to get back in one or two hours' time to do some business. We had several drinks together, and he then asked us to go to the City with him, where he had several calls to make. We accompanied him and walked down the north side of Cheapside. When we got to No. 137 Steele asked Scopes if he would oblige him by going to Messrs. Cave and Benoist to get some stuff for him, as he did not want to see a man in the firm to whom he owed money. I saw that Scopes was not feeling very fit and said I would go in, and asked him what he wanted. He said, "Ask for three pieces of chiffon," of a certain site, which I have forgotten, "and say they are for Felgate's, and it will be all right; that is my firm." I had not previously heard the name. As I was going in Steele pulled off my hat, saying, "You look like a foreigner in that hat, who has just come over with an organ." I was in Messrs. Cave and Benoist about 20 minutes, and gave a receipt for the goods which were handed to me. When I got into Cheapside I expected to see Steele and Scopes waiting for me, where I had left them in the doorway, but as they were not there I walked towards the Bank, looking across the road to see whether they were walking up that way. I then turned back again, not seeing them, and got just to the General Post Office, when they caught me up; that would be about 200 yards from 137, Cheapside. Scopes then said, "We will get back now, it is time," and I said, "Yes," and we walked, as I thought, the nearest way to Blackfriars Bridge. We called at a public-house on the way and had a drink. Steele took the parcel from me and carried it some distance into St. Paul's Churchyard, but just before we were arrested I took it from him, thinking it was too heavy for him to carry. Scopes had previously handed me my hat at the public-house. When the two detective officers spoke to us in St. Paul's Churchyard they asked about the parcel, and I heard Steele say, "I work for Felgate's and I sent Richardson in." When Detective Barker arrested me I said, "You have made a great mistake. I shall lose a lot of business by this. I have to get back to a firm at Brixton." I did not say I was employed by Felgate and Dunnett, of Friday Street, because I did not know the name. I also said something about Steele having asked me to get the stuff for him for his firm, Messrs. Felgate, and I pulled out the paper I had received from Messrs. Cave and Benoist and thought everything would be all right. I thought the transaction was proper and had not the slightest idea that Steele was making a dupe of me.

Cross-examined. I had only met Steele once during the nine months I have known him, which was about a week before this occurrence. When steele mentioned about owing some money to a man, he also said he could pay him next week. I suppose Steele asked

Scopes to go in first because he knew him better than he did me. Steele did not write down the numbers for me, he repeated them three times and I remembered them. He told me to get the stuff according to the samples, which I understood had been supplied to his firm; he did not give me any samples, and I did not produce any to Cave and Benoist. I did not know the name of Dunnett or the address in Friday Street. I was handed a paper at Cave and Benoist, which bore the name of Felgate and Dunnett, but it was in a sealed envelope. I deny I told the officer I was employed at Felgate and Dunnett; I think I said Steele was employed at Messrs. Felgate. I did not put my hat on immediately I joined Steele and Scopes, because I was carrying the parcel, but I put it on while I was in the public-house. When I left Brixton, my job which I was working on had not been completed, and I had to return in the afternoon. I also had to collect an account and make inquiries.

Re-examined by Mr. Laurie. I should think the officer got the name of Felgate and Dunnett from the paper I handed to him.

ALEXANDER SCOPES . I live at 46, Stockwell Green and have been a partner with Richardson in an electrical business for about nine months. I was originally charged with Richardson and Steele with stealing this chiffon, but was discharged by the magistrate. I have known Richardson since we were schoolboys together, and Steele for about 2 1/2 years as a casual acquaintance. On September 25 I was in Brixton with Richardson on business and met Steele, with whom we went to the City. We walked down Cheapside on the left-hand side going towards the Post Office. Then we crossed over to the other side, and at No. 137 Steele remarked that this was the first call he had to make. Steele asked me to go in and get him some pieces of material the same as the samples he had had, and I, not feeling very fresh, did not go in, but Richardson turned round and said to Steele, "Why will not you go in?" Steele made the remark that he owed somebody some money, so Richardson said, "Then I will go in for you." Richardson started to walk upstairs and then Steele called him back and said, "Come here, do not go in with that hat on, you look like an organ grinder." Richardson left his hat with me and then went in, we waiting for him on the other side. We crossed to the other side because we could look up to the window to see if we could see Richardson being served, as Steele made the remark that he was a long time. When Richardson came out he started to walk towards the Bank and then he walked down the other way, as if he were looking for us. We crossed over the road to him, and caught him up about three or four doors from Sweetings, near the General Post Office. We then crossed over to Paternoster Row and turned into an alley and went into a public-house, where we had a drink and Steele met a friend of his and he talked to his friend the whole time. We were not in deep conversation together. At the public-house I gave Richardson his hat when he asked me for it. When we came out of the public-house Steele was carrying the parcel, I believe. When we got to St. Paul's Churchyard the police officers

came up to us. I at once said, "I know nothing whatever about it." I was with Steele and Richardson all the morning and did not hear any conversation between them which showed guilty intention on Steele's part. I have always known Richardson as being straight-forward and honourable. I know him as a good son and he keeps his mother. I have never been connected with any affair of this sort before.

Cross-examined by Mr. MacMahon. On September 25 I met Richardson at Atlantic Road, Brixton, having just left a customer. We had not completed our business; we had to call back later between five and six o'clock. When Steele asked me to go into 137 Cheapside, he showed me no samples. I was not in a fit condition to ask properly for what was wanted, so Richardson went in. Steele said, "Mention Felgate's; say they are for Felgate's." He did not mention where they carried on business. Richardson walked so hurriedly towards the General Post Office that we could not catch him up before he had almost got to Sweetings. I did not return his hat because he did not ask for it.

Verdict, Guilty, with a recommendation to mercy.

It was stated that Steele had been out of regular employment for some time and had tried to earn a living by selling goods on commission, and that he would have returned the money in this case had he been able to sell the goods; also that he had been offered employment on his release.

Steele was released on the recognisances of his mother in the sum of £30 and his own in £10; Richardson on his own recognisances in the sum of £10, to come up for judgment if called upon.


(Tuesday, October 27.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-58
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > with recommendation
SentencesImprisonment > hard labour; Imprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

CREWS, Ernest William (23, clerk) , stealing 98 electric bell pushes and other articles, the goods of the General Electric Company, Limited, his masters; and BYFORD, Archibald Edwin (20, compositor) , feloniously receiving 64 electric bell pushes, the goods of the General Electric Company, Limited.

Crews pleaded guilty .

Mr. Ernest Walsh prosecuted; Mr. John Campbell defended Byford.

CHARLES EDWARD HAKIN , warehouse manager General Electric Company, Greenhithe. Property has for some time been missed from the company's establishment. I identify the four electric bell pushes as having been manufactured by my company. The list price of them is 10s. 4d. On September 9 these four pushes were brought to me by a man named Harper, who was at that time a stranger to

me. I bought the bell pushes of Harper, and at once identified them on referring to our catalogue. I gave 3s. for them. Prisoner Crews had been in our employment since November 18, 1907, and was still in our employment when Harper brought the pushes. We had been missing articles for some months. The value of the 64 pushes for which Byford is indicted is about £6, according to the list price. Twenty-four of them were brought to me by Harper on Saturday, September 12. The others he took to the police. Some of them were found at the shop of a Mr. Self, ironmonger, in the Old Kent Road. As the result of my interview with Harper, I, on the same evening, went to the corner of Little Trinity Lane, Upper Thames Street, and there saw Harper in company with prisoner Byford, who was then a stranger to me.

Cross-examined. An ordinary person looking at these bell pushes would not identify them as our manufacture. It would require an expert to identify them; in fact, I had to consult the catalogue before I could be certain of them myself. The name of the company is not stamped on them, but there is a pattern number at the back. I can also tell by the finish and general appearance. As to the statement in the depositions that the price of the pushes is £4 18s., that figure would represent a discount of 33 1-3 per cent. to people in the trade. We sell principally to people in the trade. We took stock at the end of March, and the pushes must have been stolen since that time.

Re-examined. I have no doubt whatever that these things are the property of the company.

JAMES HARPER , labourer, Old Kent Road. I recollect seeing Byford on September 7 in the Nelson coffee-shop in the Old Kent Road. I had known him slightly previously. He showed me the four bell pushes which have been produced, and asked me if I knew a buyer of them. I said I did not know of one at present, but would see, and made an appointment to see him on the following day at the same place. Next day I kept the appointment and told him that I had got a likely buyer, and if he would bring down a sample I would take them over and show them to him. I asked him: "Are they straight or are they 'crook'?" To which he replied that they were "crook," meaning stolen. I said I would like to know where they came from. I knew he went about buying stuff. He said: "Well, I do not like to tell you." Then I said I should not be able to take them off him because I should have to know. Then he said they came from the General Electric Company in Greenhithe. I said I would have a sample, and that I was going to take them to a party in the Kingsland Road. When I received the pushes, I took them over to Greenhithe, to Mr. Hakin, the manager. Mr. Hakin bought them, giving, I think, 3s., or 4s. I explained to him where I got them from. After that I met prisoner Byford again in the coffee-shop and told him I had a buyer for all he could get at 12s. a dozen for the large ones and 6s. a dozen for the small ones. Byford said that would be a good price—a better price than he could get himself. I gave

him the 4s. I had received from Hakin, and he gave me 1s. back for my trouble. I told Byford I wanted to see the party he got them from. At first he refused, but after a time he said, "We will go there to night." When he refused I told him the deal would be off. We went over the same night to Greenhithe and saw the prisoner Crews, as he was leaving work at seven o'clock in the evening. I am positive that Crews is the man I saw. When he first came out he walked along on the other side of the road. We walked along in the same direction and he came over to us. Crews said to Byford that he did not like coming over at first, as he saw Byford had somebody with him. Byford replied, "It is all right; the man it going to buy the stuff of us." Byford told him the price I was going to give and Crews expressed himself as agreeable, but said he should not touch anything for a week because something had occurred on that day at the firm. Crews walked with us as far as the "Elephant and Cattle," where we parted company. After Crews had left us I asked Byford how he managed to get the stuff out, and he said he tied them together and hung them on hit braces, and when he was taking wire he brought the wire out round his waist. Next day I met Mr. Hakin in Cannon Street. I took with me two dozen pushes, which I had received from Byford at the coffee-house. On the Saturday following I went to Byford's lodgings in Wayte Street, Old Kent Road, about eight o'clock in the morning, and asked him for some pushes, which I received, and I made a further arrangement to meet him. I subsequently met Mr. Hakin at Cannon Street Station and gave information to the police. I have been in trouble myself for breaking open a mandolin electric piano. There were five of us. This was at the Windsor Castle public-house. We were the worse for drink, and broke open the slot receptacle and took the money. I was dealt with under the Probation Act, and am now under probation. Mr. Wheatley, the Court Missionary, it looking after me.

Cross-examined. Out of this affair of the mandolin piano, which started in mischief and wound up in larceny, I got, I think, about 6s. altogether. I had not had much acquaintance with Byford before September 7. He was not a pal of mine. When Byford told me the pushes were "crook" I do not say I was seized with a sudden attack of virtue, but my idea was that, being under probation, I ought to look after myself. I do not know where the Kingsland Road is, but I know it it somewhere on this side of the water. I mentioned the Kingsland Road because it was the first one that came into my head. I had not known Crews before.

Detective WILLIAM ADAMS, City Police. On September 12 last I was with Detective Parker in the Old Kent Road. I saw Byford in a coffee-house and told him we were police officers, and cautioned him. I then said, "We are making inquiries about two dozen electric bell pushes that you bought off a man named Crews." He said, "That is quite right; I have not paid him yet for them. I have only had one other lot from him, and that wat about two or three weeks ago. I forgot what I gave him for them. I have known him for some time." I then said I should arrest him for being concerned with Crews in

stealing the two dozen bell pushes. He was taken to the station and made no reply to the charge.

Cross-examined. I have made inquiries about Byford's character, which I find to be exemplary. He has been a printer, but lately has been taking up amateur music-hall turns, elocution, etc.

WILLIAM HENRY SELF , ironmonger, 398, Old Kent Road. On August 20 prisoner Byford came to my shop and asked me if I would buy some electric bell pushes. They were quite new and I asked him where he got them from and if they were "straight." I had known him before that in connection with music-hall business. He lives in the neighbourhood and I know his people. Prisoner replied that a friend of his bought them at a sale with some more goods that he wanted, but the pushes he did not want, and would be willing to part with them at the price he had laid out on them, which was 15s. He said there were about three dozen, but I discovered afterwards that there were forty. I regarded 15s. as a fairish price buying them in that way.

Cross-examined. Byford told me they were "straight." I have known him about 18 months. I agree with the police that his character is exemplary.

Mr. HAKIN, recalled, said that the value of three dozen pushes, less 33 1-3 per cent. would be about 38s., and they would be very cheap at 15s.; they could not be made for that price.

JAMES DARCH , assistant to Self, stated that prisoner came to the shop on August 21 and told him he had some brass bell pushes for sale. He asked prisoner how he had come by them, and prisoner said he had bought them at a sale with some more goods. Witness suggested that he should come into the shop later on, and on August 29 Byford came with the pushes and said he wanted 15s. for them. Mr. Self gave him 16s.—15s. for the things and 1s. for himself. Mr. Self asked prisoner if they were "straight," and he replied that they were bought at a sale.

Cross-examined. Byford's character was very good.

FRANCIS GEORGE WARD , builder, 87, Trafalgar Road, Old Kent Road. On August 21 I saw prisoner, Byford, in the evening. He had a small parcel with him and was coming from the direction of his father's shop. His father is an oil and colourman. Prisoner asked me if I could do with electric pushes. I told him I very seldom used such a thing. He walked along with me to my place and came inside into the office. He asked 6s. for the pushes, and I asked him to leave them. I pointed out to him that they were all odd, and said that if there had been three of one pattern I might have had a use for them, as I was converting a house into flats. He replied that he could get me some to match the others. He had no wire with him, and I asked him to bring a coil of wire as well. I gave the pushes up to the police and prisoner did not get his 6s.

Cross-examined. Prisoner's character is very good.


ERNEST WILLIAM CREWS (prisoner, on oath). I plead guilty to stealing these pushes. I have known Byford, my fellow prisoner, since I was a boy at school. I stole the things of my own volition without it being suggested to me by anybody. I think it was about a month previous to my arrest that I mentioned the matter to Byford. I began to steal about three months ago. There was a person who received from me before I spoke to Byford. He (Byford) knew where I worked and I told him I had been having some stuff from my employers. I had been connected with him in some amateur theatrical entertainments. I asked him if he could get rid of any of the things and he said he would try. I had then some three dozen pushes. I live at home with my mother, and I arranged with him to come to my home and take away the pushes that I had stolen. He sold the pushes and gave me 2s., and 8s. he retained on account of some printing I had had done, so that I got in all about 10s. I joined Byford and Harper at the corner of Upper Thames Street on September 9. Byford had 64 pushes altogether.

Cross-examined. I did not tell Byford I had bought the property at a sale. I told Byford I had been stealing, because he was a personal friend. I do not tell such things to all my personal friends. Byford was not hard up, but was out of employment at this time, and I thought he would like to make a little money. I recollect a man named Mills coming to see Byford in Brixton Gaol, and saying that this was a put up job.

ARCHIBALD EDWIN BYFORD (prisoner, on oath), 80, Trafalgar Road, Old Kent Road. I am a printer and live with my parents. I have never been in the electric business. I have been in the Territorials and produce my last discharge, which is marked "Very good." Crews ran a sort of music-hall agency and arranged a few turns for me. With regard to these bell pushes, I met Crews at the "Elephant and Castle," and he said, "I have got some bell pushes; I bought them at a sale," and he asked me if I could sell them for him, and I said I would try. He said he wanted 15s. I think there were about three dozen, but I did not count them. I had not the faintest idea that they were stolen property. I afterwards had another lot from him. I think he said he got them at a sale.

Cross-examined. I recollect being with Harper and meeting Crews in Upper Thames Street. At that time he was arranging turns for me, and that is what I wanted to see him about. He made an arrangement for me to appear at Merton. Crews told me on Tuesday last at this court that he was going into the witness-box to say that these things were stolen. It was only in my spare time that he arranged turns for me. I knew he worked for the General Electric Company, but I thought it was some kind of gas company. I understood it to be the General Electric Light Company. I had previously called upon him at his place of business and left my name at the door. Crews told me he had got these things from a sale. My story is that Crews's evidence is a lie from beginning to end. I heard Harper say

that he asked me where I had got these things from and that I told him that they were "crook." That also is a deliberate lie. I did not tell Harper where they came from because I did not know where they came from. I met Harper on September 9 and gave him the electric bell pushes. Harper asked me who was supplying me with these goods. I told him Crews, and he said, "Can I go over with you to see Crews?" and I said, "Yes." Harper must have had more thought than I had and have taken them to the Electric Company on the off chance. I told Harper where Crews was employed. I told Ward that I could get other bell pushes to match those he had. I did not tell Harper that Crews removed the pushes by attaching them to his braces. That is also a deliberate lie.

Prisoner CREWS, questioned by the Recorder as to how he got the things off his employers' premises, said he used to wrap the bell pushes in paper and put them in his pocket. He had never fastened them to his braces and had never had any conversation with Harper as to how he got these things out of the place.

Verdict (Byford), Guilty, with a recommendation to mercy on account of his exemplary character.

Mr. Walsh, on behalf of the General Electric Company, said that prosecutors had no desire to press the charge against either of the prisoners.

Sentences: Crews, Eight months' hard labour; Byford, Eight months' hard labour. An order was made for the restitution of the property.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-59
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentencesImprisonment > hard labour; Imprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

KETTERINGHAM, Ernest (35, carman) , stealing one chest of tea, the goods of William Donaldson, his master; and ALLEN, Louis (provision dealer, etc) , feloniously receiving one half chest of tea from Ernest Ketteringham, the goods of William Donaldson, well knowing the same to have been stolen.

Ketteringham pleaded guilty .

Mr. A. C. Fox Davies prosecuted; Mr. Eustace Fulton defended.

Detective FREDERICK HOPKINS. City. On September 25 I went with Detective-inspector Mathews and prisoner Ketteringham to 55, Hare Street, Brick Lane, a small general shop kept by prisoner Allen. Inspector Mathews said, "We are making inquiries about half a chest of tea which was delivered at your shop this morning." Allen hesitated a moment, then said, "Yes, there was a half chest of dust tea left here this morning. The man who left it is coming back to-night for it. I was only minding it for him." Inspector Mathews asked him where the tea was, and he pointed under the shop counter. The top of the chest appeared to have been whitened. Ketteringham said in the presence of Allen, "That chalk was not on when I delivered the half chest of tea." Allen was taken to the station, and when charged he said he was only minding the tea till Ketteringham came in the evening. In answer to that Ketteringham said, "No; I said I would come back to night to have it weighed and settle up."

Cross-examined. Allen sells groceries and provisions, tobacco and cigarettes. If the chest had been left in front of the counter people might have fallen over it.

GEORGE BALDWIN , 14, St. Mary Street, Whitechapel. I am manager to William Donaldson, carman and contractor, Crutched Friars. Ketteringham has been in our employment as a driver for about two years. I identify the chest of tea as part of a parcel. There were originally three half-chests, but one we missed. I saw the three half-chests loaded on the van at the warehouse, and went over to the office, which it about 100 yards distant, but when the van arrived at the office in charge of Moyes, the carman, there were only two chest. I asked Moyes about it, and he said he had only two to bring up. It is supposed that prisoner Ketteringham removed the third chest from the van when Moyes's back was turned.


LOUIS ALLEN (prisoner, on oath). I have carried on business in Hare Street for the last eight years. I know prisoner Ketteringham as a casual customer for tobacco and cigarettes. I remember him coming into the shop on September 25. He asked for one penny-worth of tobacco. He had the chest of tea produced on his shoulder, and asked me if I would like to buy it, at the same time telling me it was dust tea. I said it was no good to me, and he then asked whether I would allow it to be left in the shop for a short period. I did not object so he put it down where it was, and I put it under the counter. He then went away. I told him not to be late, it being the eve of the Day of Atonement, and I should close at four o'clock. I recollect the police officers coming. I showed them where the box was. I did not make any white mark on the top of the box. I am a married man with ten children, and have never been charged with any sort of offence before.

Cross-examined. I did not ask Ketteringham where he got the tea from. I was too ignorant and too simple. It was unfortunate I did not ask. I had known Ketteringham a few months. I have never bought chests of tea from carmen before or taken care of them for them. I did not notice whether there was any address upon the chest; I took no notice of it at all. Ketteringham was to see me again in a couple of hours. I did not say at the police-station that he was to fetch it away at night. That is a wrong statement.

By direction of the Recorder the chest of tea was taken out of court, and the whitening removed, and the witness Baldwin stated that he was then able to identify the garden mark which indicated the garden where the tea had been bulked.

Several witnesses were called to character.

Verdict, Guilty.

Sentences: Ketteringham, nine months' hard labour. On the application of the prosecutor, Ketteringham's sentence was reduced to six months' hard labour.; Allen. 12 months' hard labour


(Tuesday, October 27.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-60
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

PRICE, Thomas (25) ; being entrusted with a sum of money to deliver to one Robert Turner, did fraudulently convert the same to his own use and benefit; having received the same on account of the said Robert Turner, did fraudulently convert the same to his own use and benefit.

Mr. Horace Samuel prosecuted; Mr. Huntly Jenkins defended.

Detective RANDAL HODSON, L Division. On September 22 I arrested prisoner at Empress Street, Walworth. I read the warrant, which charges him with being entrusted with a sum of £12 in order to deliver the same to Robert Turner, did unlawfully and fraudulently convert the same to his own use. He said, "I had the money, so I suppose I must go with you. Warren gave me the money to give to his wife. I have given her £1 and was going to let her have £1 a week until he comes out. I have got £2 16s. of it left; the remainder I have laid out, but can borrow it so as to have it by to-morrow morning." On the way to the station he said, "She," meaning his wife, "can realise £6 from her rings." When arrested his wife was present. Prisoner said, "You see Cox, he will let you have the money." I took him to Southwark Police Station. He was charged and made no reply.

Cross-examined. (Prisoner is a man of high character, so far as I know. Warren has been arrested and convicted of a certain offence. He has stated that he gave the money to prisoner to hand to a society, prisoner's explanation being that it was given to him to hand to Warren's wife. I believe mrs. Warren is in an advanced state of consumption. She was here on Friday; she is in a very delicate state of health.

WILLIAM OSCAR MEECH , 50, Calabria Road, Highbury, clerk in Bell's Asbestos Company. The employees of my company have a Christmas Club, which is held at 59 1/2, Southwark Street, of which Richard Warren was secretary. Robert Turner was the treasurer, to whom it was Warren's duty to hand subscriptions which he received when they reach about £10. Warren has been taken into custody. On December 21 I received a communication from Warren. I saw prisoner, and told him we had received information that he had had a sum of £12 handed to him by Warren to hand with the keys to Mr. Turner. He replied, "He gave me no money, only the keys, except 10s. for his wife on the Sunday." Matthews was with me. I and Matthews were deputed at a meeting to make inquiries, and on Warren's conviction we went roughly through the books and found a deficit of over £12. Prisoner's attitude was friendly. He invited us to have a drink; we refused.

Cross-examined. I made it clear to prisoner that what we had come about was club money; we were with him fifteen to twenty

minutes. The exact words prisoner used were, "He gave me no money, only the keys, except 10s. for his wife on Sunday." He did not say "No club money." He said he did not know how Mrs. Warren was going to get on—10s. would not keep her for three months. I cannot recollect a quarter of an hour's conversation. Prisoner said they were going down in a cab to fetch mrs. Warren up to his house to look after her; they were not going to have the children. They thought they would let the Union look after them; he had seen quite enough of the children. He was very concerned about the wife.

HENRY JOHN MATTHEWS , 104, Albany Road, Camberwell, clerk in Bell's Asbestos Company. I went to prisoner's house with the last witness, who told him that we had received a communication to the effect that he (prisoner) had received £12 in a bag belonging to the club to hand over to our treasurer. Prisoner said, "He gave me no money." I said, "It is rather strange that we should get this statement in the letter if it is not true." He said, "Well, he gave me no money." Neither I or Meech taxed the prisoner with having taken the money.

Cross-examined. I made it perfectly clear to the prisoner that what we had come for was club money, and that he persistently denied ever having had.

ARTHUR SOMERS , 47 D, assistant gaoler at Marylebone Police Court, On Monday, September 14, between 1.30 and 2 p.m., Richard Warren, who was then in the cells, had an interview in my presence with prisoner. I saw Warren hand prisoner a bag. He said, "Here you are, Tom, there is £12 in there; go and give it up and see that everything is all right." I think it was a bag such as bankers use. Prisoner took it from him and put it in his hip pocket. I took it to be gold as I heard it clink. Warren also handed prisoner a small bunch of keys, and said, "These are the keys of the desk. You will find a little more money in there." He also handed prisoner what I took to be a coin, with a request to give it to his wife. They shook hands and parted.

Cross-examined. Warren said at the police court that the half-sovereign was given to him on the Sunday. At these interviews I do not listen very intently to what goes on. I am there rather to see that nothing is handed into the cells. I heard prisoner say to Warren that his wife was in a dying condition and that he would look after her. That was just as the money passed.

RICHARD WARREN . Until I was recently sentenced I was secretary of this Christmas Club. On Monday, September 14, I had an interview with prisoner at Marylebone Police Court, the last witness being present. I asked prisoner to take the bag of gold and two keys to Turner as quickly as possible. I told him it was club money. On the Sunday prisoner was good enough to take 10s. to my wife. I did not see him that day; the half-sovereign was handed to the police. I told prisoner Turner's address, Paradise Street, Clapham Road. I also gave prisoner a slip with the amount written on, "£12 club

money. "I was employed at Bell's Asbestos Company at a salary of £2 a week. I had money in the Post Office Savings Bank.

Cross-examined. My wife is entirely dependent upon me. Prisoner has always been very kind to my wife and children; he was very kind in reference to my case. I was highly honoured in having a business man like him running about for me; he has always acted very honourably to me; he is a man in a very good position. I was likely to be imprisoned for some time. On the Sunday I sent the half-sovereign as the balance of my wife's week's money. I asked prisoner to look after my wife. I had £16 in the Post Office Savings Bank of my own money; there was difficulty in drawing it while I was in prison; I could have let prisoner have this £12 for my wife and paid the society out of my own money, but it never crossed my mind to do that. At the time of the interview with prisoner I had been sentenced to three months' imprisonment, was anxious to provide for my wife, and had sent a withdrawal form to the Post Office. I believe receipt (produced) is signed by my wife, "Received of Mr. S. Price £1 as arranged. He has also paid 10s. as deposit on rent and moving expenses. Louisa Warren."

ROBERT TURNER . I live at 5, Haberden Road, Lambeth, and have a shop at No. 30. I am treasurer of Bell's Asbestos Company Christmas Club. I have received no money from prisoner. I received a key. I afterwards saw prisoner, and he told me he had sent the key which he had received from Warren.


THOMAS PRICE (prisoner, on oath). I live at Empress Street, Walworth, and am a foreman slater, having frequently forty men under me, and drawing and paying their wages, amounting to £20, £30, £60, and sometimes £100 a week. I earn £4 to £5 a week. Warren and I married sisters; we have been the best of friends for thirty years. The charge against Warren was a great shock to our family—it was a most unpleasant charge. I have never had any charge made against me. I have been seven or eight years in my present employment. When Warren was arrested his wife asked me to see him. I went on Sunday, but was not allowed to see him. I received 10s. for his wife from the police. On Monday I attended the court, and at his request got him a solicitor. After he was convicted I saw him in the cells in the presence of the warder. First of all he handed me the keys to give to Turner at his workshop; he also handed me two keys to give to his wife, of his box and desk, also a slip of the Hearts of Oak Society, from which he said his wife would receive some benefit money. He also handed me a bag, and said, "There is £12 in here. Take this and look after Louey and see everything is all right." I wished him good day and came out. I said I would look after Louey—naturally, she being a sister-in-law and a dving woman. She would have been here to-day as a witness for me, but the nurse told me she would not live the day out; she was here last Friday as a witness for me. Having received those instructions

from Warren, I went direct to his wife from Marylebone Police Court and told her that he had been sentenced to three months' imprisonment for indecency to children. She began to cry. I told her to cheer up, and said, "He has given me two keys for Mr. Turner and two keys of his desk and box; also a Hearts of Oak slip," which I handed to her; also that he had given me £12 to look after her. She then said, "Thank God, we shall not have to go into the work-house, Tom." I said, "I will see that you do not do that." She then suggested that I should keep the money and allow her £1 a week so that it would last 12 weeks, whilst her husband was away, and also that I should get her cheaper apartments, if possible. I got her two rooms opposite my house at 3s. a week less rent, paid a deposit, and took the rooms. I then went to Bell's Asbestos Company and left the keys for Mr. Turner. I saw him after-wards and told him about them; also that Warren had been convicted and had been sent away for the crime he had committed. Turner was so disgusted that he could hardly speak to me and stood silent for some minutes. To the best of my ability I honestly followed out the instructions given me by Warren. Since these proceedings I lave paid his wife's rent and allowed her money out of my own funds. I had at the police court the money intact—namely, £9 4s. My employer brought it and showed it to the detective-sergeant. I have the money now, and am willing to hand it over, notwith-standing that I have provided for mrs. Warren. Mrs. Warren signed the receipt produced, the arrangement being that I should give her £1 a week. I have been out on bail in £20. When the officer came to arrest me I had paid mrs. Warren 30s., and had used the money for sub-money to workmen and to buy nails for my employer's work. I never thought for a moment there was any harm in doing that.

Cross-examined. When Warren gave me the £12 I did not hear him say, "Give it up and see that everything is right." He said, "Take this, Tom, and look after Louey." I do not know how Somers could hear What was said—there were half a dozen people talking at the time. I think he is mistaken. Warren did not say in handing me the keys, "You will find there is a little more money in my desk." I heard Warren give his evidence. I think he was too much worried to know what he did say; he was right down ashamed of himself. He told me distinctly to give the two keys to Turner and the two keys to his wife, and that with the £12 I was to look after Louey; he said nothing to me about giving Turner any money; he is wrong about that. I think he is "mixed"; I do not know that he has a grudge against me—we have never had an angry word in our life. In saying he gave me a slip with the club money on it, he is telling a lie. Warren was always regarded as a saving, pious man; he had friends in Canada who used to help him. and I always thought he had money in the bank. Meech and Matthews came to me and said, "We are informed you have £12 club money." I said, "I have no club money; the only money I have is to look after his wife

with." I did not say how much I had; they did not show me any authority. They were perfect strangers to me, and I had no authority to give them £12 if I had it. I did not tell them I had £12 I told Detective Hodson I had the money. I did not know it was club money till after I was arrested, or I should have given it up. I was not insulted at the suggestion that I knew something about this money. I had no reason to give them the information.

MAY WARREN , Empress Road, Walworth, niece of the prisoner. My mother is very ill. Prisoner came to see her on September 14 and said, "Dick gave me £12. I think I have got enough to support you till Dick comes out." She said, "Thank God, that will keep us out of the workhouse." Prisoner gave her a little slip of paper, which I took to the Hearts of Oak Office and they returned it to me, because there was no money to receive. I heard my mother say to prisoner, "I would like to have £1 a week."

Cross-examined. Prisoner only gave us one slip of paper.

The Common Serjeant said there could not be a conviction here of fraudulent appropriation of money—the only real evidence was that of the man Warren, who had been convicted. Mr. Samuel said he did not press the case and the Jury returned a verdict of Not guilty.

The Common Serjeant refused to make any order as to the money found on prisoner.


(Tuesday, October 27.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-61
VerdictsGuilty > unknown
SentencesImprisonment > hard labour; Imprisonment > hard labour

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PADLEY, James (34, labourer) ; carnally knowing Minnie Salmon, a girl under the age of 16 years; and FREEMAN, Lottie (33) ; being the occupier of certain premises, knowingly suffering Minnie Salmon, a girl under the age of 16 years, to be upon them for the purpose of being carnally known by James Padley.

Mr. Clarke Hall and Mr. W. B. Campbell prosecuted; Mr. R. W. Burnie defended.

Verdict, Guilty.

Sergeant JAMES proved several previous convictions against Padley for theft and as a suspected person, but stated nothing was known against the woman Lottie Freeman previous to this charge.

Sentences, Padley, Twelve months' hard labour; Freeman, Three months' hard labour.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-62
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour; Imprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

STEER, James (26, dealer), and MALYON, George (20, dealer) ; both breaking and entering the dwelling house of Frederick James Greenwood and stealing therein one clock and other articles, his property; Steer, stealing a clock and other articles, the goods of Shadrach Hicks.

Steer pleaded guilty .

Mr. James E. King prosecuted.

FREDERICK JAMES GREENWOOD , merchant, 125, Haverstock Hill. On September 4 last I locked up house at half-past eight in the morning and went into the City. I was called home by telephone about six o'clock and found that the house had been broken into and goods had been taken from it. I had left the door securely locked, and it would require a key or an instrument to open it. I had made arrangements for a woman to come in once a day. She usually came in the afternoon, but on this day did not come till after the burglary. I communicated with the police, and have identified the property which they recovered from the prisoners as having been stolen from my house.

Sergeant THOMAS TANNER. On September 4 last I was in Upper Street, Islington, in company with Sergeant Kenward, and there saw the two prisoners. I saw them talking together, and after a minute or two Steer left Malyon and went into a jeweller's shop, No. 16, Camden Passage. Sergeant Kenward followed Steer into the shop. I said to Malyon, "What is that you have? Who was it that went into the jeweller's shop." He said, "I do not know; I was not with anyone." I took him into the jeweller's shop. I pointed to Steer and said, "This is the man." Malyon said, "Well, I will give you credit, Mr. Tanner, it's a smart capture." I took him to the police station and found two rings and a brooch in his trousers pocket. He said, "I should like to know who shopped us." I did not charge the prisoners then, but on the 16th I told them they would be charged with housebreaking at Haverstock Hill. Malyon said, "I shall plead guilty to receiving the rings, but not to breaking in and stealing them."

To Malyon. You pleaded guilty to receiving the rings in Inspector Martin's presence at Clerkenwell Police Court. I wrote it down at the time. Directly we entered the jeweller's shop you used the words I have stated. (Malyon said that he could not have used the words, because they would contradict the statement he had made to Inspector Martin.) I did not speak to the man in the jeweller's shop or make inquiries about you. Sergeant Kenward asked him if he had seen you before. I did not show the rings you had to the jeweller, and you did not hand them to me. You told me you were very much upset about your wife and asked me if I could help her, and I gave her 2s. 6d.

Sergeant JOHN KENWARD. I was in Upper Street, Islington, on September 4 last, in company with Sergeant Tanner, and saw the two prisoners together. They were apparently examining something as they were standing at the corner of Camden Street. We followed them to Camden Passage and the prisoner Steer went into a jeweller's shop there. I followed him and shortly afterwards the prisoner Malyon was brought in. The prisoner Steer said, "It is no use my denying it; it is a fair cop. We have got these things from a house in Lea Bridge Road."

(To Malyon.) I asked the jeweller about some other property while you were in the shop and he said he had bought some other

articles the day before. I did not see the rings and brooch which were in your possession till we got to the police station.

Inspector JOHN MARTIN. I have been engaged in this case and was at Clerkenwell Police Court when prisoners were detained. Both prisoners made a statement to me. Malyon's statement, which he made on September 11, was as follows: "I just come from Covent Garden Market about half-past three. I met Steer at the Angel and I asked him if he would lend me a few shillings to pay my rent. He said, I have got no money on me, but take these two rings and pin and try and pawn them for a pound and I will lend you a few shillings. On my way to the pawnshop I was stopped by an officer and asked what Steer was doing in the jeweller's shop. I said, I do not know. He said Steer has just gave you something; you had better come with me. I told him a man named Wiggy gave me the rings. That was not true, but I did not want to get Ginger into any trouble. I know nothing about the housebreaking or where the rings came from. I am very unfortunate to have got into this trouble."

Prisoner Malyon asked to have Steer's statement read, which bore out the previous statement.


GEORGE MALYON (prisoner, on oath). On the first day I appeared at the police court Tanner came to me at the back of the Court, in the waiting-room, and said, "I have seen your wife and child since you were remanded at Clerkenwell, and I think you ought to look to them before you do your so-called friends. If you will try and get to know off Steer who the man was that broke into the house with him I will do my best to get you out of this case." He said, "None of your friends will help you after you have been finished off. Just find out from Steer who was with him. The case will not come off for three-quarters of an hour or half an hour. I will come back." With that he went away and came back in about half an hour and said, "Well, have you got to know." I said, "I have asked Steer several questions and he refuses to answer." With that we were called up. He must know I am innocent of this case, else he would not ask me the name of the man who was with Steer. I asked a man to lend me a few shillings and he gave me the rings and told me to pawn them; that was how they came to be in my hand. I thought they were his own property. I have known Steer as a bookmaker and a man with plenty of money. If I had known the rings were stolen I should not have put them into my hand. I have known Steer for about 15 or 18 months.

Verdict, Guilty.

A police officer proved a previous conviction against Steer of felony, and previous convictions were proved against Malyon.

Sentence, Steer, Eighteen months' hard labour; Malyon, Twelve months' hard labour.


(Wednesday, October 28.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-63
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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BAKER, Thomas (22, labourer) ; attempted robbery with violence on Sophie Hay with intent to steal one locket from her person.

Mr. Horace Samuel prosecuted.

SOPHIE HAY , 34, Essex Road, wife of Henry Hay, a clerk. On October 1, 1906, at 2.45 p.m., I was walking down Church Street, Islington. When near the top prisoner, who was seated on a doorstep, jumped up, came to me, and grasped my locket, which was attached to a chain round my neck, and pulled it from here to there (describing). I screamed out, and followed him down Church Street, and saw him caught at the bottom. I saw him deal the policeman a heavy blow. Prisoner caught hold of the locket twice; he tugged very hard. It did not hurt me at all, but I felt the tug. The locket was a gift to me, is gold, and I am told cost £21 or £22. There was no one else on the doorstep; the road was rather quiet. Two shop-keepers came out and attempted to catch prisoner; he nearly sent one of them through the window. The door behind where prisoner was sitting was shut. I had never seen prisoner before.

ERNEST DIXON , 4, Drayton Park, Holloway, harness maker. On October 1 I was in Church Street, Islington, when I heard shouts of "Stop him," and saw prosecutrix running after prisoner. I rushed out, caught prisoner, and held him till a policeman came up. Prisoner struck the police officer.

MICAH HASTINGS , 740 N. On the afternoon of October 1 I was on duty in Essex Road when a young man called me, and I went into Church Street and found prisoner detained by the last witness. Prosecutrix said, "I want to give this man into custody; he has attempted to steal my gold locket just now in Church Street." I took him into custody; he said nothing; he became very violent, and struck me a violent blow in the mouth. He made no reply when charged.

Verdict, Guilty.

Prisoner confessed to having been convicted at Clerkenwell on May 28, 1907, receiving eighteen months for stealing from the person. Other convictions: May 21, 1903, twelve months for housebreaking; July 25, 1904, four months, assaulting the police; May 25, 1905, twelve months for possessing housebreaking implements by night; May 21, 1906, fifteen months for possessing housebreaking implements.

Sentence, Four years' penal servitude.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-64
VerdictsGuilty > unknown
SentencesImprisonment > hard labour

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DIGGINES, William John (31, carpenter) ; attempting to carnally know Margaret Seivewright, a girl of the age of three years and four months; indecently assaulting Margaret Seivewright.

Mr. Clarke Hall and Mr. W. D. Campbell prosecuted. Mr. Eustace Fulton and Mr. Curtis Bennett defended.

Verdict, Guilty. Sentence, Twelve months' hard labour.


(Wednesday, October 28.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-65
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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MANSER, William Henry (29, printer) ; unlawfully by fraud leading and taking away and detaining Lily Levermore, a child of the age of nine years, with intent to deprive her parent of the possession of the said child. Attempting to carnally know the said Lily Levermore, a girl under the age of thirteen years. The prisoner was tried on the indictment of taking away and detaining.

Mr. Clarke Hall prosecuted.

Verdict, Guilty.

Previous convictions were proved, and a long statement given by the detective as to prisoner's past career, which showed that he had been addicted to the same kind of offence.

Sentence, Eighteen months' hard labour.

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-66
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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TOMKINS, Edward (47, carman) ; robbery with violence upon John Masham, and stealing from his person a gold watch and chain.

Mr. L. A. Lucas prosecuted; Mr. Lawrie defended.

JOHN MASHAM , 38, Cross Street, Islington, oilman. The photograph produced of the shop is an accurate one. On September 11, about 10.30 p.m., I was in the room at the back of my shop, which I had closed at 10 o'clock. I heard a knock at the door and opened it, when some young man asked me if I could oblige him with a gallon of varnish. It is a very common thing for painters, especially, to come to the side door after the shop is closed, because they commence work early the next morning. I let the man in and went down in the basement to get this varnish. I was not more than two minutes there, and when I came back there were three men in the room. I did not have time to enter the room, as they stopped me in the passage, and one put a sack over my head and fastened it round my neck with a strap and told me if I did not submit he would stick a knife into me. Then they tied my legs together with a piece of thin rope and asked where my money was. As I was perfectly helpless I said there was some in the till and some in the desk in the room at the back and some in the iron safe, but all there was there was 10s. worth of King George pennies. They emptied the till and the desk and took these old pennies out of the safe. They were there about half an hour. They tied my hands together and left me sitting on the stairs in the passage. After I heard the door closed I freed my hands and took the cord off my legs and the sack off my head. They had also taken my watch and chain. I only saw the young man who came in first; I did not see the face of the others, though I might have seen their legs. The value of what they took was £22 5s. At the back of the counter there is a nest of drawers. There was a light in the shop, an incandescent one, which I always leave burning until I leave the premises. (Witness indicated its position on the plan.) The light

was such that anyone could be seen plainly at the drawers by anyone looking in the window.

Cross-examined. I cannot identify the prisoner; he was not the man who came in first. The side door opens directly into the room; there is no passage between. When I went into the basement the door leading into the street was closed, but the door into the passage was open; there was no light in the passage. I should think the height of the shop is about 10 ft. and the incandescent light would hang down about 5 ft. It was above the counter, about 2 ft. from the window. Anyone standing behind the counter where I serve would be between the counter and the drawers. (The witness indicated the position.) There are other lights beside the one that was left burning. The size of the shop would be about 18 ft. square. The photograph was taken a little after this occurrence. I think the goods were in the same condition when the photograph was taken as they were at the time. I do not remember ever having seen the prisoner before, although he lives quite close to me. I had no suspicion connected with him.

Re-examined. (Witness further indicated the position of the counter, drawers, and light, etc.) I should think the nest of drawers would measure about 12 ft. from the window to the door that leads into this room. I should think the drawers are about 7 ft. from the ground, and there are about forty or fifty of them.

ALBERT COTTON (13 years of age). About half-past ten on September 11 I was going an errand, when I saw two men standing outside Mr. Masham's shop. I went for my errand, returned home, and told my parents what I had seen. I returned to the shop and saw prisoner looking at some papers in some drawers through the window of the shop. (Witness indicated the position.) I am sure it was the prisoner I saw. I have seen him before. He used to live quite near me. I have seen prisoner frequently before; the first time was nearly a year ago. When I saw him in the shop the gas was full on and I could see plainly. I then went home, told my parents, and came back, when I saw Mr. Masham in the shop, just turning the gas out. I thought everything was all right then. Next morning the manager told me what had happened. On the 18th I went to Islington Police Station and picked prisoner out from nine or ten men. I touched him on the back.

Cross-examined. I live almost opposite the shop. I should say prisoner was quite well known in the district. About seven months ago prisoner left his house, which was two doors from ours, and went further away. During those seven months I have lost sight of him. I was looking through the window for about two or three minutes. The drawer he was looking in might have been the second from the window (I am not sure). I think it was the second row from the top. He had no ladder, but he could just reach it. He had no hat on. There were some bottles in the window. If there had been anyone else walking about the shop I should have noticed them. When I went to the police station I was convinced that the man I had seen that night was the prisoner.

Re-examined. I went to the police station to pick out the man I saw in the shop. I am sure the prisoner was looking into the top drawer but one. The drawers are about 6 in. deep, and I should think their height was about 6 ft. from the ground.

JOHN MASHAM (recalled). I still think the drawers are about 7 ft. high. They are of different sizes; the top ones are smaller than the middle ones and the middle ones smaller than the bottom ones. I suppose the second drawer from the top would be something like 6 ft. 6 in. from the ground. The papers were in the fourth row from the top. There were none in the other rows. The second one from the window and the third and fourth all have papers in them.

JOHN THYNNE . I help Mr. Masham in his shop. On September 9, about ten in the morning, prisoner came in and asked for the telephone directory. He said he wanted to look up Hodges, of Holloway Road, and as we were looking it up he said, "What day does your governor go to the bank?" I said I could not say. He took down the number he wanted and then said he wanted to look up Maple's, and as he said that the manager came in, so I took no further notice. I am sure prisoner is the man. I have seen him before, but did not know his name. I had not seen him very often. I afterwards saw prisoner with a man in Cross Street, but I do not know what day. I identified him at the police station.

Cross-examined. I have been in Mr. Masham's employment for about four years. I do not know prisoner as a customer. The manager referred to is my brother. At the time of the telephone conversation a customer was in the shop, but I do not know who he was. I do not think I should know him again. I am rather deaf. I am not sure the 9th was the day of the telephone conversation, but it was not the 13th or 14th, I will swear. It was either the 8th or 9th.

Re-examined. The conversation referred to was before the robbery which was on the 11th.

Inspector JOHN MARTIN, N Division, spoke to the identification of the prisoner by the two boys. (Prisoner admitted that the identification tion was fairly carried out.)

Cross-examined. It was upon the evidence of the two boys that defendant was charged.

Detective-Sergeant JOHN KENWELL. On September 18 I went to 48, Queen's Cottages, Popham Street, where I saw prisoner. I told him I should arrest him on suspicion of being concerned with others in stealing a gold watch and chain and between £9 and £10 from Mr. Masham at 38, Cross Street, last Friday night. He said, "I do not know what you mean, I don't know nothing about it; I was at work all day Friday, and did not finish before eight or nine." I then took him to Upper Street Station. On the way he said, "I know nothing about it, I saw it in the papers, and took no more notice of it. I can't think of anyone who would do that kind of thing." When

charged he said, "I don't know nothing about it; that is all I can say."

Cross-examined. I have made inquiries and am told that he was at work as he has said. No serious charge has been made against him.


EDWARD TOMKINS (prisoner, on oath). At the time of this occurrence I was living at 48, Queen's Cottages, Popham Street, about four minutes' walk from Mr. Masham's shop. I used to live directly opposite. I was born in that district and have never been out of it; my father had a shop there for sixty years. I used to drive a cab and bus. I had a licence from 1895 until three or four years ago, when I lost it. At first I drove a bus, then I drove a cab, but I got into trouble by drinking with fares, and one or two drinks will always upset me, so I got into trouble with the police. Previously I was a teetotaller, and am now. On September 9, at 7.30 a.m., I was in Essex Road waiting for my governor, Mr. Iles. I met him and got on the tram and went down to Holborn Town Hall to Mr. South's Yard in Little James Street for the horse and van, which we got, and went to a warehouse in Great Queen Street, loaded up, and went to Romford Market.

Mr. Lucas said it was no good proving prisoner's movements on the 9th, because that was not the day of the telephone conversation; it was on the 8th.

Witness (continued). On September 8 I was up at the warehouse with Mr. Iles about ten in the morning. (An account for hire of horse and van for September 8 and 9 was identified by witness.) I do not know what time it was when I got the horse and van; I should think it was between 10 and 11. The time we had the horse and van on the 9th would be very soon after eight in the morning up till about nine at night. On the 11th (Friday) we went to the Cattle Market in Caledonian Road. I met Mr. Iles, junior, in Essex Road, and we got to the Cattle Market at exactly twelve on that day and did not come away until past six at night. I parted from Mr. Iles at the corner of Cross Street, Islington, and eventually got home about 8.50 or 9 o'clock. I did not go out again. My wife and two daughters were there. I had had nothing to eat except two cups of tea in the Cattle Market. Then my daughter Ruby got some tea, and the wife took Annie to see some animated pictures, saying she would be back soon. I took my boots and slippers off and had my tea. My daughter went on the verandah, which runs round our building, and I sat in the room. She got me another cup of tea and then went out, and was talking or looking about. I then went to bed, because I had pains in my back, as I had hurt myself in loading something in the Cattle Market. I also had sciatica. My daughter did not move from the place. As regards the telephone conversation, I had had a letter in answer to an advertisement from 31, Church Street, Kensington, the Cedar Stores, for a stableman and driver. I applied for it, and was

asked to bring references if I had them. I had none, but I went to Mr. Masham's shop, which is a public call office, and went into what they call the wholesale shop in Cross Street. There are two shops, one wholesale and one retail. I have known the shop for thirty years. I looked up the Telephone Directory, but could not find what I wanted as I had no glasses. I then told the boy I wanted Hodges' and Maple's numbers, so that I could give the numbers to the Cedars Stores if they wanted the references. I had been at Mr. Hodges for one year, and was at Maple's also for one season as team driver. I put the numbers down on a piece of paper. I did not telephone to the Cedar Stores, because I could not find the number. I never asked a question about his gov'nor going to the bank. I told the boy if anyone telephoned to send across to Francis, the furniture shop opposite, and tell them that it was for me, because I was going there and coming back again. When arrested I made use of the words which the officer speaks to. As regards the Friday, I go every week to the Islington Cattle Market, as that is the day it is held, and I have no difficulty in recollecting what I had done on that day. I did not know what time the robbery had taken place until I had read it in the paper on Sunday. I have not been in constant employment for the last twelve months. My job with Mr. Iles is irregular, just as he wants me, but when I am out of work I have a sister and brother who will always give me money to pay the rent, etc. I never have been in want.

Cross-examined. It was on Monday, the 14th, that I went to Mr. Masham's shop for the telephone numbers; that was after the robbery. I had been in that shop two or three weeks before for a pennyworth of varnish, or rather turps, for the man at the furniture shop. I had been in and out of the shop some hundreds of times. When the boy says I was in two or three days before the robbery he is mistaken. I am paid by Mr. Iles for each day I do the work. Before the robbery I was at work nearly every day the whole week, and the week previously. Naturally I wanted to get a regular job. I have never had less than 5s. a day from Mr. Iles and as much as 12s. I was earning as much as 25s. to 30s. a week. When I was having my tea on the night of the robbery my daughter was not two yards away from the door and I could hear her talking. I heard it strike ten; I went to bed a few minutes afterwards. My daughter was still outside.

CHARLES ILES . Prisoner has been employed by me. (Witness corroborated the movements of prisoner with him on September 9.) We had no horse and van on September 8; there was no market on that day. The hire referred to in the account produced for the 8th must be meant for the Friday previous; that would be the 4th; I know that by the number of hours. We may have had one on the 8th. The account is to Mr. Weber, which is the firm my father is a partner in. On these days I was taking stuff for my father, and I had prisoner to give me a hand. As regards September 11, prisoner came first thing in the morning and loaded up the van at the warehouse. We went to the Cattle Market and stayed there until 6.30 in

the evening. (Witness corroborated prisoner's evidence as to this.) It was about ten to nine when I parted from him. I have always found prisoner very willing and straightforward, and never had any reason to suspect his honesty. I have never seen him the worse for drink all the time. On the 11th, at lunch time, I believe he said he had had a bit of beef at the White Horse Tavern, just opposite the market. He told me he had a cup of tea, but I am not sure whether he said he had some beef. I lent him the money to get it.

Cross-examined. He told me he had no money that morning; he would be paid at night when he was finished. I have seen the bill sent to J. South before. That would be paid by the firm, Weber and Co. It was really a counter-account. I do not recognise the handwriting; I believe it is his wife's. On the Tuesday prisoner did not have a van. On the Saturday he was at work till about, I think, three o'clock, for which I paid him. I knew he had been trying to get a job, and, of course, I only employed him on odd days.

Mrs. TOMKINS, wife of prisoner. On September 11 my husband came home about nine o'clock; my two daughters were in at the time, and I went out with the younger one soon afterwards. Ruby remained in. We went to the animated pictures at the Empire and returned about twenty past ten. My husband was then in bed. He is a kind and considerate husband and a very good father. The letter produced is one I received from the Cedar Stores, 31, Church Street, Kensington: "With reference to your inquiry with regard to your husband, we have been expecting to receive a telephone card, but regret to say that it has been destroyed." The address was to be put on the back of the card to deliver to the Cedar Stores.

Cross-examined. I knew it was twenty past ten, because my daughter asked me what time it was. She was sleeping in the same room. I went to my husband's room to bid him good night; he was asleep with my little son. As far as I know, he did not leave the house again. The animated pictures entertainment was over at a quarter-past ten. I first knew of the robbery by reading it in the newspaper. I first knew my husband was in trouble about it on the Friday afternoon, when the police came. My husband did not ask me if I could remember what time he came in. I remember it quite well. I always go into his room to say good night to him. In regard to the Cedar Stores, I paid a personal visit. I had been in Mr. Masham's shop, but t could not say that my husband has; he has never told me; he does not tell me everywhere he goes to. I persuaded him to go and get the telephone numbers, as the gentleman at the Cedar Stores asked him to get him all he could to save them going for references. I knew Masham's had a telephone. I do not know what my husband was doing on the 8th. When he was not at work he was trying to get work. The letter produced was received from the Cedar Stores. The postcard was sent before. I left the address of 5, Grosvenor Street at the Cedar Stores when I called there, because that was my address at the time; I moved just afterwards.

RUBY TOMKINS . I am the eldest daughter of the prisoner. On the evening of September 11, about nine, my father came home and I

got his tea. My mother took my little sister to the Empire soon after he came in. I cleared up the tea-things, picked up a book and sat by the fire reading. He had only one cup of tea, as far as I remember. After sitting down a little while after tea he said he was going to bed, which he did. My mother came in about 10.20. I was in the kitchen. My father did not go out after that. If he had gone out before 10.30 I should have known it.

Cross-examined. I am 14. It was a little after nine when my mother went out that evening. She went to the Islington Empire. I had been there to the early house. There are two performances at most of these Empires. One starts at seven and goes on till nine; the other starts at nine and goes on till half-past ten. The first performance is the same as the later one and takes the same time. I am almost sure the last house ends at half-past ten. I did not hear my mother say that she came home before the performance closed. She usually waits until it is over, and she waited till the end this time. I have passed the Islington Empire and seen the times of the performances posted up. The early house is 7.30. I do not know what the late house is, not properly—about half-past ten. I did not leave the room while my father was in and I could see him all the time. I did not go on the balcony nor round it. I knew when my mother would be home, but she did not tell me beforehand. When she came in I looked at the clock and it was twenty past ten exactly. I knew she would not be later than eleven. I first heard of this robbery on September 11, the same night. (The witness then contradicted herself.) I first heard of it when the two detectives came to take my father. I did hear of it before the detectives came. Father told Harry to go and get an "Evening News." I cannot tell what evening it was. It was Friday (the 11th). My father looked down the paper and saw about Masham's shop and read it, but did not take any further notice of it. I think it was on the Saturday morning when he sent for the paper. That was the day after. I never saw it in the newspaper myself. It must have been a slip when I said I did not hear of the robbery until the detectives came on the 18th. My father asked me to come as a witness and asked me if I could remember what time mother came home. I said I would.

Re-examined. I said I did remember what time mother came home, and I do. There is a balcony outside our window and I sometimes go on it. On that night I do not think I did. It was in the morning when the evening paper was got, before dinner. My brother goes out for papers sometimes, but not very often.

Mr. Lucas asked his Lordship to recall John Kenwell, who, he said, could give material evidence as to the telephone conversation.

Mr. Lawrie objected that it could not be admissible, as Kenwell was not present at the conversation.

His Lordship said that if the conversation took place on the 14th it did not matter a straw as that was after the robbery, but if it took place on the 9th it would be very material. He thought, however, that the excluding of the evidence of the Sergeant now, after what had been said to the jury, would probably be more injurious to the prisoner than if he were called. Mr. Lawrie said he had no information of what the Sergeant was going to say, but as a matter of principle he strongly objected, as it would be a most extraordinary

proceeding if at the last moment evidence was called to bolster up the prosecution as to a conversation at which the witness was not present. After some discussion Mr. Lucas withdrew his application.

Verdict, Not guilty.


(Monday, October 26.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-67
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceMiscellaneous > sureties

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ORLANDO, Valentino (24, correspondent) , who pleaded guilty last Sessions before Mr. Justice Pickford (see page 620) of wounding his wife Marie Orlando with intent to do her grievous bodily harm, was brought up for judgment

Mr. Justice Bigham said he understood that prisoner had cast off the foolish suspicions he had entertained against his wife, that his wife wanted to rejoin him, and that they had decided to return together to their native country, Switzerland. In these circumstances he (Mr. Justice Bigham), with the full concurrence of Mr. Justice Pickford, had decided to release prisoner on his own recognisances in the sum of £100 to come up for judgment if called upon.


(Friday, October 23.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-68
VerdictMiscellaneous > no agreement

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GYDE, Henry Warwick, and MARCUS, Edward Septimus Bernard , otherwise called Septimus Marcus ; both conspiring with one Walter Darby, by false pretences to defraud such of His Majesty's liege subjects as should be induced to purchase debentures and become debenture holders in certain public companies called the Welsh Slate Quarries, Limited, and the North Wales Slate Quarries, Limited, of their moneys and valuable securities; both unlawfully obtaining by false pretences from John Dawson Self banker's cheques for £180 and £210 respectively, and £390 in money; from Joshua Heywood banker's cheques for £18, £29 5s., and £45 respectively, and £92.5s. in money; from Fielder Orme banker's cheques for £90, £280, and £90 respectively, and £460 in money; from Albert Edward Farrow's banker's cheques for £99 and £90 respectively, and £189 in money; from Alfred Ernest Barlow a banker's cheque for £18 and £18 in money; from Lucretis Goodwin banker's cheques for £98 15s., £90, and £40 respectively, and £228 15s. in money; from George Fentress banker's cheques for £80 and £50 respectively, and £130 in money; and from Jane Price a banker's cheque for £42 10s. and £42 10s. in money, in each case with intent to defraud.

Mr. Muir, Mr. Travers Humphreys, Mr. Graham-Campbell, and Mr. Bigham prosecuted; Mr. F.E. Smith, K.C., M., Mr. George Elliott, and Mr. S.H. Lamb defended.

JOHN FORREST PARK , clerk in the department of the Registrar of Joint Stock Companies at Somerset House, produced the file of the North Wales Slate Quarries, Limited.

JOHN PYKE , messenger in the High Court Registrar Department of Companies Winding-up, produced the files in the winding-up of the North Wales Quarries, Limited, and the Welsh Slate Quarries, Limited, also the public examinations in both companies, also proceedings in debenture-holders actions.

EDWARD VAUGHAN FOX , Examiner in the Companies Winding-up Department of the Board of Trade. I have had the investigation of the affairs of the North Wales Quarries Company, Limited. That company was registered on June 9, 1904, with a nominal capital of £10,000 in £1 shares. Its objects were "to acquire the interest of the City of London Investment Corporation and others in the Clettwr Quarries." The first directors were Sir John Campbell, George Henry Dodgson, Gordon Laurie, and Frederick Bridger. On the file is an agreement dated June 9, 1904, which recites an agreement of May 31, 1904; the parties to the latter are Richard John Lloyd Price and Charles Auton. Price agrees to lease to Auton the Clettwr Quarries, and certain plant and machinery is transferred. The consideration is, £700 in debentures and £500 in shares in a company to be formed. In the agreement of June 3 is recited an agreement of June 2, the parties to which are Auton and the City of London Investment Corporation; Anton transfers to the Corporation his interest under the agreement of May 31, the consideration being £700 in debentures, £500 in shares, and £2,300 in cash or debentures. In the agreement of June 3 the parties are the Corporation and Septimus Marcus as trustees for the North Wales Company; the Corporation transfer to Marcus their interest in their agreement with Auton, the consideration being £700 in debentures, £5,800 in cash, shares, or debentures, and £2,500 in shares; each debenture holder was to get a £1 fully paid share for each of his debentures, the Corporation to pay the expenses of formation. The first meeting of directors of the North Wales company was on June 15, 1904, when the agreement of June 3 was adopted. At a meeting on June 28 the first prospectus was approved and signed by the directors. That prospectus invited subscriptions for 1,000 first mortgage debentures of £10 each, bearing 10 per cent. interest, with a premium of 15 per cent. by 20 half-yearly drawings. The profits of the quarries were estimated at £10,562 per annum. A table was given of the cost of making various sizes of slates and present selling price, with the profit per 1,000 slates. The profit varied from £12 6s. to £3 12s. 9d., the cost from £4 14s. 6d. to £1 14s., the selling price from £17 0s. 6d. to £5 6s. 9d. It was stated that "the quarries had been inspected and reported on by the well-known authorities Mr. C. B. Case, A.M.I.C.E., and Mr. D. Washington Davies, a successful mining expert." With the prospectus were circulated extracts from the reports of Case and Washington Davies. There was also the statement that offers had been received for taking the whole output of the

quarry, but that the directors thought it not advisable to bind themselves, and that orders had been booked for six and 12 months ahead; in the books of the company I have been unable to find any trace of such offers or orders. Between July 8 and 15 there were allotted to the public 267 debentures, representing £2,670. At a directors' meeting on July 15 three cheques, making up £2,000, were drawn in favour of the Corporation, 100 debentures and 2,500 shares were allotted to the Corporation. On July 26 £600 was paid to the Corporation, and 290 debentures were allotted to them; this completed the purchase price payable to them. At a directors' meeting on August 5 R. J. Reynolds and Sir John Campbell were appointed trustees for the debenture holders. At that time a number of debentures had been allotted to the public; there is no record in the books of any meeting of debenture holders to appoint trustees, although in the prospectus it was stated that trustees would be elected by the debenture holders after the debentures had been allotted. On September 10 the company borrowed £200 at 10 per cent.✗ from the Corporation; the company at this date had £97 in hand. On October 31, 1904, a second prospectus was issued by the Corporation inviting subscribtions for 250 debentures in the company, stated to be "portion of the £10,000 issued in July, 1904, which was fully subscribed and allotted." The directors of the company approved and signed this prospectus. Substantially the prospectus was similar to the first. On this second one 20 debentures were allotted to a Mr. Armytage. On March 31, 1905, a third prospectus was issued, a copy in French of the second one; on this form debentures were allotted. On May 12, 1905, there is a minute authorising the issue of a fourth prospectus, "offering 343 debentures, being the balance of 10,000 authorised, of which 6,570 had been allotted and subscribed for." It stated that "The Oakley and Greaves quarries, which adjoin our property, have recently made profits exceeding £150,000 per annum," and referred to an enclosed report by Mr. Gray. I have not found in the papers of the company any report by Mr. Gray. By this date the public held more debentures than the Corporation; a total of 748 had been issued; 358 to the public (of which 18 had not been paid for), 320 to the Corporation, and 70 to Lloyd Price; the Corporation had parted with many of their debentures. On June 16, 1905, there was the first half-yearly drawing of the premium debentures; out of the 50 drawn 47 went to the Corporation and three among the public. The company had not then the money to pay for the debentures drawn, and the Corporation were asked to advance £550 "on the Usual terms."

(Saturday, October 24.)

EDWARD VAUGHAN FOX , recalled. I produce the file relating to the Welsh Slate Quarries, which was registered on November 10, 1904. The memorandum of association says that the company was to acquire the interest of the City of London Investment Corporation in the Gorddinan Quarries, with a nominal capital of £30,000 in £1 shares.

There was power to issue £30,000 worth of £10 debentures. The company had the same directors as the North Wales company, the same secretary and offices. There was no qualification for the directors, but their remuneration was to be the same in both companies. There is an agreement dated November 7, 1904, which recites an agreement of March 24, 1902. The parties were Evan Lloyd, Mr. Andreas Roberts, and other persons. Mr. Lloyd granted to Mr. Roberts and the others a license to work Gorddinan Farm for a period of 60 years. It also recites an agreement of November 4, 1904, under which Mr. Andreas Roberts and others sold their interrest to the Corporation for £250 in cash, £250 in fully-paid debentures, and £1,000 in fully-paid shares of the company which is to be formed. There is another agreement recited of November 4, by which F. C. Davis agrees to sell to the Corporation the plant, machinery, and benefit of the work he had done for £1,000 in debentures and £1,000 in fully-paid shares. Altogether the Corporation paid to Mr. Andreas Roberts and his friends £3,500 on November 4. The parties to the agreement of November 7 were the Corporation on one side and Marcus as trustee for the Welsh Slate Quarries. The Corporation agreed to sell to Marcus the benefit of two agreements of November 4 for a consideration of £18,000, as to £5,500 in fullypaid shares, £2,000 in debentures, and £10,500 in cash, debentures, or shares. The Corporation chose to take the whole sum in cash, and they actually received £9,200. I think that is after taking off £250 which went to the other vendors, they getting £9,450, but paying £250 to the others. Cheques produced amount to £9,200. Some of these cheques are countersigned by Marcus and endorsed, "For the City of London Investment Corporation, M. A. Chabot, secretary." On January 20 there is one for £1,000 endorsed "W. Darby, Chairman of the Investment Corporation," also one on February 10 for £1,000 endorsed by him. On November 15, according to the minute book produced, a meeting of the directors was held, at which an arrangement was made that Mr. Darby was to provide the office and clerical work, as in the case of the other company, for which he was to receive £100 per annum. At that meeting the agreement of November 7 was adopted, and the first prospectus was approved by the directors. There is a statement that the quarries had been inspected and the quality of slates reported on by well-known authorities, with a list: F. J. Gray, G. Washington Davies, John Williams, Richard Roberts, and Edwin Hoal. (The reports were produced by the witness.) As to the report dated November 11, 1904, there is no indication of anything being omitted. I found a type-written report by Mr. Washington Davies amongst the company's papers, dated November 11, 1904. There are three paragraphs which have been struck out. In that report Mr. Davies is speaking of a net profit of 20s. per ton at the end of three years. On the blue paper there are also extracts from the reports of Mr. Williams, Mr. Roberts, and Mr. Hoal. Mr. Foster is referred to on the prospectus, but no extract is given from his report. I also found typewritten copies of the full reports, which were, in fact, published on the blue paper. I received

from Mr. Gyde a printed copy of the full reports of Mr. John Williams, Mr. Hoal, Mr. Richard Roberts, and Mr. Foster, In the course of the liquidation we could not find the original reports, so we asked Mr. Gyde if he had them. In Mr. Williams's report, dated January 1, 1902, he deals with the question of the cost of producing slates; that is not on the file. In dealing with the cost of production he put this at 40s. per ton, and there are certain other costs amounting to 10s. per ton, making a total of £2 10s. The passage which deals with the value and cost of production in the printed report is not one of the extracts selected for publication on the blue paper. I produce the original report of Mr. John Williams on August 16, 1897. I also produce an original report of Mr. Williams on July 6, 1904. In that report he puts the cost of production higher than he did in 1902 and 1897. The report of Mr. Roberts in the printed document received from Mr. Gyde purports to be a complete report. In dealing with the present value he puts it at £4 per ton, and the cost of production comes out at over £4 per thousand. That passage is not selected for printing on the blue paper. Mr. Gray's report is also produced of November 14, 1904. On December 1, 1904, there is a minute: 1,000 shares allotted to Mr. Andreas Roberts and 1,000 to F. C. Davis. On December 5, 200 debentures allotted to the Corporation. Of these 25 were in the name of Andreas Roberts, 100 in the name of F. C. Davis, and the rest in the name of the Corporation. On December 7 there was a minute saying that sir John Campbell and Mr. E. G. Barrett were appointed trustees for the debenture holders. In December, 1904, 451 debentures were applied for and allotted. 80 of them were applied for by Miss Thompson; the balance by the public. Miss Thompson succeeded M. A. Chabot as secretary of the Corporation. She was a clerk in their employ. Those 80 debentures were paid for. On December 30 five debentures were allotted to Mr. Bridger and five to Mr. Dodgson. Eleven debentures were allotted to the directors. The whole stake held by Mr. Dodgson and Mr. Bridger was £30 each. I think some shares were transferred to Sir John Campbell by the amalgamation of the two companies. According to the register of the Welsh Slate Quarries, Sir John Campbell acquired five shares on October 6, 1905. (Witness looked up the transfers and found that the transferors were the City of London Investment Corporation.) On January 6, 1905, there is a resolution as to the issue of the two prospectuses. Upon that prospectus £4,340 of debentures were allotted to the public. There is also on the file a prospectus dated February 13, which is a copy of the two prospectuses in all its material particulars. On that 228 debentures were allotted to the public. There is also on the file a prospectus dated March 20, 1905, which is the same except in minor particulars. I find amongst the papers a price list of June, 1905—there were large bundles of these price lists. On June 19 a prospectus was issued, which was the fifth one, and in all materials is the same as the preceding one. On July 10 there is another prospectus, which offers £3,750 of debentures. As far as I remember, none were allotted at

the time. In the North Wales Company the total number of debentures applied for by the public was £4,451. There were other small sums received by the Corporation in addition to those sums subscribed by the public, as the Corporation sold debentures to the public. I could not tell you what they realised; £112, I think, was the face value in the North Wales Company. The debenture register shows the total number of debentures sold by the Corporation. I do not know whether the Corporation is in existence now. I have two balance-sheets of the Corporation, but I do not think they were published. The landlord resumed possession of the North Wales property and also the Welsh Slate Company's by arrangement with the Receiver for the debenture-holders. He gave up the lease and was allowed to sell the machinery. There are minutes showing that the amalgamation of the two companies was considered. In the North Wales Company there is a minute of September 29, and in the Welsh Slate there is one on October 6. It appears from the minutes that they held a meeting at each quarry on October 20, 1905. The two quarries are about 18 miles apart. (The minutes were read of such meetings.) I have no knowledge that the confirmatory meeting was held in London at the "Mason's Hall Tavern." There should be minutes of that on the file at Somerset House. I have got it here, and there is a copy of the special resolution on the file saying that such resolutions were confirmed on November 4, 1905. It does not give the time and there is nothing to show who was present. A petition for the compulsory winding-up was brought by two creditors on January 18, 1906; they were also debenture-holders. On November 6 an order was made that both companies should be wound up compulsorily. According to the books the North Wales Company sold £13 worth of slates to the West Suburban Gas Company, or the West Suburban Gas Light and Coke Company, £5 2s. 2d. worth to Andreas Roberts, and a small amount to the landlord, Lloyd Price, 18s. 10d. As regards the Welsh Slate Company, they sold £13 4s. 10d. worth to the West Suburban Gas Company. The landlord took some account of his rent, £22 odd, which is shown in the ledger. According to the ledger they bought £45 worth of slates from F. C. Davis. The Official Receiver did not take possession of the property; it is in the possession of the Receiver for the debentureholders; therefore, we found nothing there. I never went to the property. The amount of slates that the Welsh Slate Company sold altogether was less than the amount they bought from Davis. A statement of affairs was submitted by the directors in both companies.

(Monday, October 26.)

EDWARD VAUGHAN FOX , recalled. I produce the statement of affairs submitted by the directors in the course of the winding up of the North Wales Company, also the notes of the public examination of the defendants and others. (The material parts of the examination were read.)

ALFRED JOHN ROUSSEL , His Majesty's Deputy Greffier, Guernsey, produced the file of the City of London Investment Corporation, which was registered in Guernsey on October 31, 1903; nominal capital, £100,000; on January 1, 1906, the issued capital was £11 15s. No statement of accounts was ever filed.

ELEANOR WARDELL ALLEN , typist. I rent four rooms at 39, Lomhard Street, and 26, Gracechurch Street; the offices are entered from either address. On June 11, 1904, I let one of the rooms to Walter Darby; rent, £52 a year. Darby said he wanted it as the office of a Welsh slate company. He was accompanied by a man who, I think, must have been Gyde. On the door of the room taken by Darby there were the names of the North Wales Slate Quarries, Limited, she Welsh Slate Quarries, Limited the City of London Investment Corporation, Limited, and MacAndrew, Robinson, and Co. Marcus used to come every day; I last saw him in November, 1905. The last rent I got was on January 9, 1906, when the tenancy was put an end to.

Cross-examined. I had negotiations only with Darby; I had nothing directly to do with Gyde.

JAMES POTTS . I was formerly secretary to Mr. Andrade, the owner of 119-120, London Wall. On September 22, 1904, he let a portion of that building to Walter James Grant; the tenancy agreement described him as trading as Mayward. Grant and Co., and it was witnessed by S. Marcus. On January 2, 1905, a lease was taken of the same premises by Grant. The name of Mayward Grant and Co. was over the door, also the name of the City of London Investment Corporation. The lease was subsequently transferred to the Corporation; the tenancy finally terminated on March 25, 1907. I cannot be positive that I ever saw Gyde there.

CECIL BERTRAM CASE . I am 30 years of age; I commenced to practise as a civil engineer at the end of 1899, at first with my father, whose special line was sea defence, coast encroachments, etc. I know Frank Gray, who is now a surveyor in the Land Registry Department, Lincoln's Inn Fields. In 1904 he told me he had been asked to make a report on a company, and I agreed to be introduced to the work in his place, as he could not go. I accordingly went to an office in the City, where I saw a man who I was told was Mr. Chabot; I now think it was Gyde. It was arranged that I should go down to Bala to inspect a quarry. I had not previously inspected any quarry. "A well-known authority on slates" or "slate quarries" would not be a fair description of me; I never authorised say such description in a prospectus or elsewhere. I furnished a report, for which I received about £10 plus my expenses; I was paid by the Corporation; my report was directed to the directors of the North Wales Company.

Cross-examined. At the time I made the report I was an A. M. I. C. E. I first knew Gray about 1897; he is an engineer of competence and experience. Until he spoke to me about this quarry I had not known Gyde or Darby; neither of these made any suggestion that I should adopt in my report any particular figures or description.

The amount I received was no inducement to me to make other than a bona-fide report. There is not a single statement in my report that I now wish to withdraw.

EDWARD VAUGHAN FOX , recalled, cross-examined. Gyde has always answered every question I asked him, and furnished me with any document I wanted, except that I have asked him to produce Gray's report, and he said it did not exist; I have seen no original report of Gray's, only what is printed in the prospectus.

(Tuesday, October 27.)

EDWARD VAUGHAN FOX , recalled, further cross-examined. (Three further reports by Mr. Hughes, Mr. Washington Davies, and Mr. George Thomas were put to witness.) I do not know whether Davies actually visited the place once a week, according to his agreement. These reports were prepared for the purpose of amalgamation, but not included in the prospectus. He held the same position with regard to both companies. I have no information as to how the development of the quarries proceeded. (Witness was cross-examined as to the figures shown in the books as having been spent on wages, salaries, etc., and to whom they were paid.) I have seen no wages book. We found a great difficulty in getting the books from Mr. Godwin; he was liquidator in the voluntary liquidation. I have no doubt that the amounts stated on the wages sheets were paid.

Re-examined. All the reports did not come from Gyde's possession; the manuscript reports of Hoal, Roberts, Williams, and Foster came from F. C. Davis. I think the only difference between the manuscript and the printed reports which were in Gyde's possession was that the latter had been redated. In the case of Williams there was a third report used by Gyde, which came from A. Roberts; it was not in Gyde's possession. The passages with regard to costs are not selected for publishing in the prospectus, with the exception of one of Washington Davies's; the report that is printed in full; I think a green one. Apart from the books of the company, I do not know what they spent. I have often heard of the "Builder," but never seen it. After the date of the price list two prospectuses were issued by the Welsh Slate Company with the same statement as to approximate cost, present selling price, etc.

To the Judge. The two companies purchased a little machinery; there was the fan; I could not tell you the price. They also bought an engine. The fan was purchased from Lund Brothers for £41 on May 10, 1905. It was recommended by W. Davies. I do not know whether it ever worked. I find two items for tools, and for sleepers £12 16s. 11d. There is a machinery account debited with £75; that is the planing table. I am confident that the figures in the books represent the position as regards machinery, but I will try and find out anything further.

FRANK JAMES GRAY , A. M. I. C. E., surveyor in Land Registry, Lincoln's Inn Fields. I first went into business on my own after Mr. Case's

Father's death. I specialised in sea defence. My engineering experience extends from the age of 18, 24 years ago. In 1904 I knew Mr. Dodgson, and he introduced me early in that year to a gentleman for the purpose of making a report on a quarry. I went twice, I think, to the office of the Investment Corporation in London Wall later on. I saw Gyde and Darby there. I was not introduced personally. Dodgson had said to me, "My friends want an engineer to report on some slate quarries." When the time came for the report to be made I went to receive instructions. I sent the letter (produced) to Mr. Dodgson, saying that I would inspect the quarries for a fee of 10 guineas and travelling expenses. I could not go myself and wrote them so. I recommended Mr. Case. Later in the year it was suggested that I should report on the Welsh Slate Company's quarry in Festiniog. It was at this time I paid the visit to the office which I referred to. I cannot remember my conversation with Gyde and Darby; it is four years ago. I had never before reported on a slate quarry, and told them so. I added that I should be able to give an expert report, as I should have the assistance of an expert. I do not know whether Gyde made inquiries as to my qualifications. I then went down to the quarries with the directors and the two promoters, Darby and Gyde. I met them, I think, at Festiniog. I probably spent about six hours going over the quarry. I made the report on coming back to London; it is dated November 14, 1904. I spent a great deal of time on the details as to output, cost, and market price, and gathered data in regard to them. I made a large number of notes at the time, but I have not kept them; I may have done so for about 12 months. The expert who assisted me was Mr. Ennion. He had been engaged on the Oakeley quarry for some time, making surveys. He is now in the same office as I. I have only known him since May, 1904. I met him through his being in the same office. I was in the Government office when I went down to the quarry. I did not take Mr. Ennion with me. I arrived at my conclusions in the report after consulting Mr. Ennion. (Witness went into details as to the range of the slate beds in the quarry.) Mr. Ennion got half my fee. I still say that the Gorddinan quarry is part and parcel of the same slate bed as the Oakeley and Greaves. My figure in the report, 88,802 tons output, does not agree with the mineral statistics which accompany the report; 68,000 is the proper figure. The £350,000, estimated value, is worked on the basis of the 88,802, so also is the £150,000 profit. The 88,000 figure must be a mistake. I do not understand it. I do not think I made the mistake; I may have done. I had the blue book before me when I drew up the report. In regard to the passage, "After getting into working order the output should easily be increased by 12,000 tons per annum, representing a profit per annum of £12,000, I put "gross profit" in my report. When I handed it in Gyde said he did not want "gross," that people did not understand what it meant; so I said, "You must explain what is meant by 'profit' if you want to leave it out." He was to explain it in the prospectus. I did not see my copy of the report till about six months afterwards. When I looked at it on the

first opportunity I found that my wishes had not been carried out. It was too late then to remonstrate, and the quarry was such a good one that I thought no harm would be done. The people who put their money in, if the thing was worked properly, would get their money's worth. I was never consulting engineer to the Welsh Slates Company, and was not asked to be, although my name appears on the prospectus as such. I never authorised it.

Cross-examined. I do not think there was any discussion about the proper fee for the work I was to do. I do not remember Gyde saying I should get more by a regular connection with the company. I was not prepared to advise the company from time to time. I cannot carry on practical engineering now, as I am in an office. The inspection of the quarry was in my holiday time. I do not remember Gyde asking me to do further work for the company. I complained to Dodgson about me being described as consulting engineer; it was not a written complaint. I still believe the quarry should pay well with adequate capital. I have been down to slate quarries before, merely to study them, not professionally. I would not have undertaken the report alone. I told Gyde that my friend was thoroughly familiar with the district. The letter of March 16, 1905 (read), is in reply to an invitation from Gyde to report on some other quarry. I say I cannot do it, but mention some one who can. In Wales they always speak of a profit as between the bargainer and the purchaser. (To the Judge. I am not an expert in Welshmen. I have known cases where "profit" alone indicates "gross profit"—I am only speaking as regards honest transactions; I am afraid I cannot give an instance. I am not trying to maintain, the omission of the word gross. I would not do it myself.) I did not make any complaint about this. I am perfectly certain the word "gross" was in the report I gave to Gyde. I did not consider the omission would he serious as regards its effect. I do not remember when I first noticed it. I pointed it out to Mr. Fox before the winding-up. I noticed it first when I showed it to Mr. Ennion; he pointed it out. I had not read it very carefully. Mr. Dodgson, I believe, got me a copy of the prospectus after I had asked him for it several times. I did not apply for any shares in the company; I am not one of the investing public. I was annoyed about the omission of the word "gross," but did not think it of any use ventilating my grievance. I state on my oath that the word "gross" was in my report. I remember the incident very well. It may be that I regarded Gyde then as an untrustworthy man. The two mistakes in the figures after the 88,000 are consequential. The fact of omitting "gross" and adding an explanation of the meaning of "profit" was an unusual thing. I cannot give an opinion as to whether it was consistent with integrity. It would be perfectly honest to put "profit," and then explain that it meant "gross profit." Mr. Dodgson is not an old friend of mine. I met him through his being a church organist, and I played for him when he could not attend. I met him about a year before the time in question. I know nothing to show that he is not respectable.

Re-examined. I cannot say the date of my conversation with Gyde; but I am perfectly certain about what was said regarding "gross." Mr. Ennion and I prepared the report together. Mr. Thomas, whom I introduced to Gyde, is a Professor Associate of the Surveyors' Institution. (To Mr. Smith.) I suppose I took "gross" out of the report, as I said at the police court.

GEORGE HENRY DODGSON . I live in Paris, and am a private secretary. I met Gyde five or six years ago. I knew him then as "Carlton Gray." I lost sight of him for a time, then met him in 1904. He introduced me to a man who was with him, a Mr. Grant, subsequently known as Darby. I went with them to Moorgate Street, I think; subsequently to London Wall, the offices of the Corporation. They were carrying on business as Mayward Grant and Co.; both names were on the door, but I won't be ture that that was at the same time. I went to the offices before the corporation was formed; it may have been in 1903. Gyde asked if I would like to be director of a company he was going to bring out—a slate quarry. He was aware that I knew nothing of slates. He said that I did not need to have technical knowledge; my duties would be mostly formal; I should have to attend once a week and sign papers. The fee was to be one guinea attendance. I became a director of the North Wales Company and the Welsh Slate Company. The prospectuses were drafted before we got to the meetings, and we all signed them. They were submitted by Gyde; he and Darby attended the meetings. I did not make any suggestions about the prospectuses. Nominally I held five debentures, but I never had them; Mr. Bridger also was supposed to have five. I did not pay for them. Gyde suggested we should have them. I went down to the quarries two or three times. I think I paid something; I am not sure whether it was for these debentures or not; it was about £5. I forget whether I had a banking account at that time. I had no receipt that I know of. (In the ledger G. H. Dodgson was credited with £5 on January 2 on account of debentures, on January 12 £20, and on February 23 £25.) I did not pay anything more than £5. The other amounts I did not pay. I have never seen the cash book. I understand the secretary, Marcus, kept it. I am sure the £20 and £25 were not paid by me. We did the usual things which directors do at the board meetings. I cannot recall proposing any resolution, nor any amendment. The first time we went to the quarries was to takeformal possession. I do not remember Marcus being there, but Darby was.

Cross-examined. Gray is a friend of mine, and I have high opinion of his integrity. I remember him complaining of being described as consulting engineer. I told him it was not worth bothering about; it was all over then. He also complained about the word "gross"; I do not remember that it was in reference to profits. I do not remember telling the Official Receiver that Gray had not mentioned the word "gross" being left out. If I said so I stick to it because that was nearer the time. I looked through the draft prospectuses with the other directors. I saw some extracts on the prospectus from

some reports. Gray told me that the slate was in the same seam as the Oakeley Quarry, and that he expected to get the same slate. I do not think I ever saw Gray in Gyde's presence. Gyde asked me if I knew a capable man who could make a report; I do not know whether he said "could" or "would." I told him Gray; he had not heard of him then. It was not a personal introduction. I used to visit Gray about once a week at this time, and, of course, discussed the matter of the quarries. He satisfied me that it was a good thing. He was emphatic about that. I think I should have told Gyde about that, though I do not remember. I read Case's report; he was nominated by Gray. I was present when the debentures were allotted and drawn. I think it was Mr. Reynolds who put the papers in the hat. All the directors were present and Sir John Campbell presided. I do not know who folded the papers up; they were so when they came into the room. Reynolds put them into and drew them out of the hat. He held it above his head. The papers were put on the table and the numbers called out and taken down by the secretary. Reynolds did not fold up any of the papers after reading the numbers. I believe Sir John put the numbers in the minute book. Before the papers went into the hat Gyde asked, "Would anyone like to count them?" I think I looked at some out of curiosity. Gyde was not very far away from the hat; he usually sat near the fireplace. We relied on Gyde's experience—experience in company work I take it; we also had the solicitor there sometimes. The books were produced at all these meetings. I do not remember Gyde saying, "Would anyone like to look at the papers before we destroy them?" I do not remember that they were destroyed. I do not think there was a fire in the grate; the papers were simply thrown into it. Gyde never interfered with the drawing. I first knew Reynolds in connection with these companies. I saw a good deal of the other directors, and I had confidence in them. Sir John generally attended the meetings and took part in the discussions. During all the time Gyde never suggested to me to do anything which I thought was wrong.

Re-examined. I had no conversation with Gray before he went to inspect the quarry, but I knew he was well up in geology and was a civil engineer. I do not know that I considered myself a figure-head in the company; it never struck me that I was or was not. I understood we were obliged to sign the prospectus to make it legal; that was one reason. We considered all the statements were correct. I knew that by putting my signature to it I was vouching the truth of the prospectus. I considered Gray was an authority, but I did not think it necessary to make inquiries. I assumed it. I think Gyde dictated the agenda of the meetings to the secretary. I cannot recollect an occasion when we went contrary to the proposals in the agenda. I think that Gyde told me he wanted "an engineer" to report on the property, but cannot remember the words he used. I think Reynolds was a clerk at the London Wall office. I have not seen him since these proceedings commenced, not for two years I think. I did not know him as an engineer or accountant. I am sure

the papers at the drawing were twisted up into a very small compass. I think the successful papers were also thrown into the grate. (Some bits of paper were handed to witness.) I do not know whether these are the papers. They have not been folded. I see the numbers 429, 603, and 521.

Mr. F. E. Smith objected that the papers could not be evidence unless identified by the witness. His Lordship said that that could be done later on.

Witness. The three numbers I have read are winning numbers. I cannot say that I know the writing on the envelope which accompanies the papers. It looks like "N. W."—"not wanted" I should think. It might mean "numbers winning." There is 36 in blue pencil. Reynolds's hat was used at the drawing. I should say the paper produced is what Marcus wrote the numbers on, but I did not look at it at the time. I cannot swear to it being Marcus's writing. (Another document was handed to witness.) This is in Sir John's handwriting. It contains the winning numbers. That must have been what he wrote at the time.

Mr. F. E. Smith complained that it was inconvenient to have no notice of additional evidence. Mr. Muir rejoined that Mr. Smith was not entitled to complain of lack of notice of matter after he had Cross-examined about the details of this drawing.

His Lordship said that Mr. Smith had better look at all the papers.

Witness. I cannot say what advantage there was in holding the hat above the head if all the papers were folded up. I think the North Wales Company had correspondence. We were corresponding with the foreman of the works every week. I do not remember a press copy letter-book. Mr. Fox here said, in answer to the Judge, that there was a letter-book for each company). I do not remember seeing it. Sometimes we were consulted about the letters. Sometimes Gyde would suggest something and we would say, "Yes, certainly," or words to that effect. The secretary was responsible for the correspondence. The same thing applies to the Welsh Slate Quarries.

EDWARD VAUGHAN Fox, recalled. I found the small pieces of paper with the envelope (produced) amongst the papers of the North Wales Company. It was as it is now. The pieces of paper were in it, and the numbers were on it, also on the bits of paper, and the initials J. W. C., dated June 16. I also found printed circular (produced) dated June 17, 1905, with the name "S. Marcus, secretary." The numbers on the three pieces of paper correspond with the numbers on the scraps of paper. They are the winning numbers which were published of the drawing of debentures.

Cross-examined. These papers were at the police court. They were put before solicitor and counsel months before. Mr. Elliott Cross-examined at the police court about the drawing. Gyde did not give me these papers, but I found them at once. The printed paper corresponds with Sir John Campbell's one, but I cannot quite follow

the pencilled one. Some of the numbers appear to correspond. I do not know the writing on either.

JOHN DAWSON SELF , 143, High Street, Newport, Isle of Wight, confectioner. In July, 1904, I received a prospectus of the North Wales Company, with accompanying reports. Believing the statements in the prospectus to be true, I purchased 20 debentures for £200. In June, 1905, I got a letter from MacAndrew, Robinson, and Co. offering certain debentures for sale on behalf of a client who was going abroad. I believed the firm to be a genuine one, and I bought from them 25 debentures for £210.

Cross-examined. I was influenced by my reading of the prospectus as a whole; I was also influenced by the reports, but I read all the papers together; it was the prospectus I principally went by.

JOSHUA HAYWOOD , of Bideford, draper; FIELDER ORME, of Congleton, miller; ALFRED EDWARD FARROW, of Brompton, Chatham, chemist; ALFRED ERNEST BARLOW, of Canonbury, clerk; LUCRETIA GOODWIN, of Newbury, widow; GEORGE PENTREAS, of Pickering, York-shire; and JANE PRICE, of Rusholme, Manchester, widow, gave similar evidence.

Mr. Muir intimated that, to shorten the case, he proposed to eliminote a number of the false pretences counts; there would be left for the jury, in addition to the conspiracy charge, eight separate cases of false pretences.

(Wednesday, October 28.)

EDWARD JAMES RAND , secretary of the London Banking Corporation. I produce certified copy of the account of the North Wales Company at my bank; also certified extract from our waste book, showing payments into that account. I produce similar documents as to the account at my bank of the Welsh Slate Company and the City of London Investment Corporation. The lastmentioned account was controlled by Walter Darby, Henry Warwick Gyde and M. A. Chabot.

CHARLES REEDS KING , manager at the Finsbury branch of the London and South-Western Bank, produced the account of the corporation with the bank at that branch from April 27 to December 20, 1904, when it was transferred to the Coleman Street branch. W. Darby, H. Warwick Gyde had the power of drawing cheques on the account; M. A. Chabot was secretary.

Cross-examined. We never had any trouble with the account.

THOMAS JONES , Princes Street, Westminster, consulting engineer to the Oakley, Greaves and other quarries in North Wales. I have known the Gorddinan Quarry for 40 years. I produce a map showing the position of that quarry in relation to the Oakley and Greaves quarries. The distance from the northernmost point of the Oakley Quarry open workings to the uppermost workings of the Gorddinan is 1? mile; from the Gorddinan to the Greaves Quarry the distance, taking similar points, is 1 1/2 miles. The Gorddinan has not the same watershed as the Oakley. The Gorddinnan slate is very

much inferior in quality to the Oakley end would sell for much less. Before seeing these prospectuses I had never heard of Gray at a quarrying expert. I know Washington Davies; he was a timekeeper and a sort of under-foreman at the Talysarn Quarries; he now assists his son as a farm bailiff. I know Mr. John Williams as Lord Ancaster's mining agent. Mr. Richard Roberts is a slate quarry manager, not a mining engineer. Mr. Edwin Hoal has had to do with some pyrites reduction works, but I think has had nothing to do with slate. Mr. John S. Foster is an engineer, but his knowledge of slates is comparatively recent; I have the greatest respect for him, but I should not attach very much importance to his opinion upon the opening out of slate quarries. I do not know a Mr. George Hughes in connection with slate, nor a Mr. George Thomas. It it not the fact that in November, 1905, quotations for slates were advancing; they were going down. I should say the Gorddinan Quarry has not been worked for several years. I visited it on July 29 last; there is nothing whatever going on; the levels are choked up; the quarry could not be worked at a commercial success.

Cross-examined. It is the fact that the properties of the Welsh Slate Company and those of the Greaves and Oakley adjoin for a length of 700 yards, but the quarries do not adjoin. I was asked by Mr. F. C. Davis in January, 1903, to make a report upon the Gorddinan Quarry, for the purpose of a company; I declined, and I recommended Mr. John S. Foster; he is a local man, a conscientious and competent man, and I had no hesitation in recommending him to advise. I do not say that about £1,500 may not have been spent on the Gorddinan, but some of that was money thrown away. (Witness was taken through a comparison of the prices of slates mentioned in the prospectuses with those given in the "Builder"; he maintained that the sizes and qualities varied, so that the latter was no confirmation of the former.) A company with £40,000 of working capital might perhaps make a commercial success of the Gorddinan Quarry, but even that is doubtful, as the slates are of such inferior quality no amount of money would make it a success.

RICHARD BOWTON , slate quarry agent, managing partner of the Craig Ddu Quarries, Festiniog. I know the Gorddinan Quarry. The prices given in the "Builder" are no check upon the prices given in the prospectuses; the latter include only the principal sizes of slates, and all sizes must be taken together when estimating profits. (Witness generally confirmed the evidence of the previous witness.)

Detective-inspector JOHN OTTAWAY. I know the handwriting of Marcus, and have prepared a schedule of various documents in that handwriting. These include a number of letters offering debentures in both companies at a discount. I arrested Marcus on May 2. I told him he would be charged with conspiring with Gyde and Darby to obtain money by false pretences in connection with these companies. He said, "I don't know why I should be charged; I am innocent of any fraud; I was clerk and secretary to the companies, and only did what I was told to do." On April 14 I served summonses on Gyde and Darby. Gyde, when I told him what the summons

was for, said, "I am surprised to hear this." Darby (in Gyde's presence) said, "I have been associated with companies 25 years, and cleaner companies than these never existed; the only fault was the want of working capital." Darby failed to appear in answer to the summons, and a warrant against him was issued, but he has not been seen since.

Cross-examined. I did not know Darby's address, and Gyde volunteered to go with me to find him. Gyde and Darby were summoned to appear on April 14; it was after Darby's disappearance that Marcus was arrested.

Prisoners' statements before the magistrate: (Gyde). "I am absolutely innocent of any charge of conspiracy or fraud; there is over-whelming evidence that I am speaking the truth, and I propose to call witnesses here." (Marcus.) "I am quite innocent of any charge whatever; I merely carried out my duties as secretary and clerk, and my name only appeared in quite a nominal way; I have never been associated with any company before and am absolutely innocent of company law; I did what I thought was right; I am quite ignorant of quarries, and therefore can be in no way responsible for how things were carried out; I merely carried out the duties as directed by the directors; I have left Gyde and Darby over two years and have had no business connections with them since."

Mr. F. E. Smith submitted that there was no case, but Mr. Justice Bigham said he should leave it to the jury.

(Thursday, October 29.)


HENRY WARWICK GYDE (prisoner, on oath). In June, 1903, I by deed poll changed my name from Henry Peter Bernard to Henry Warwick Gyde. The defendant, Marcus Septimus Bernard, is my brother; he did not change his name by deed poll, but he had been known for years as Marcus, and eventually that was the name by which he went. In 1902 I was trading in Cheapside, in the business of share dealing, as Carlton Gray and Co. Dodgson came to my office; he at first took me to be "Carlton Gray," but he almost immediately learned, as he came to my house, that my name was Bernard. I afterwards traded in partnership with Walter Darby as Mayward Grant and Co., outside brokers, at 119-120, London Wall. On October 31, 1903, the City of London Investment Corporation was registered in Guernsey. Mayward Grant and Co. lasted for three years, with varying success, and as we had a large number of properties offered to us we decided to give up that firm and start the Corporation to promote slate quarries and other properties. The Corporation was a private company, in which we embarked our own capital, not as shareholders. It was registered in Guernsey because the registration fees there are much lighter than in England. The secretary was Miss Mary Agnes Chabot. She was employed by Darby and myself at a weekly salary. I have never myself passed as M. A.

Chabot. Mr. Case can easily have made a mistake on this point. When he came to the office it was in response to a letter signed "M. A. Chabot," and it was not unnatural that he should assume that whoever he saw in the office was M. A. Chabot. The offices at 39, Lombard Street and 26, Gracechurch Street were taken by Darby. Many months before the City of London Investment Corporation was started we were offered quarry properties in North Wales by Mr. Lloyd Price, of Bala. I believe he is a very rich man—a member of the Carlton Club. He described to us the Clettwr Quarry as one of the finest properties in Wales, and said it only wanted bringing out as a company to be a great success, and that he would take the whole of the purchase price in shares or debentures. The quarry was then being worked on a small scale; I went down and saw it. I asked Mr. Price if he had any reports upon it; he said "No," but he could introduce me to a very good man, Mr. Washington Davies, who would make a report. I then got into communication with Washington Davies. The correspondence was in the name of the Corporation, but everybody knew that it was our firm. (To the Judge.) The Corporation did not keep a minute book; it was a private company; only Darby and I were interested in it; a cash book was kept. I do not know where it is. Darby had all the books; I dare say I could find the books if I could find Darby; Marcus kept the books. The Corporation has been wound up in the sense that it has ceased to exist, but it never owed a shilling; I think there has been no formal winding up. Price did hand me a report by Washington Davies dated May, 1898, and I wrote and asked Davies to make a similar report and he did so. When we decided to consider taking over the property, we entered upon an exhaustive study of all the statistics we could find about slate properties, and overhauled all the books and trade journals. The first letter of Lloyd Price was addressed to Mayward Grant and Co. I cannot remember whether the latter firm put the advertisement referred to in the "Financial News." They did advertise in that paper for properties for the purpose of floating them into companies.

Mr. Elliott here explained that these letters which he was putting to witness could not be put in at the police court as Gyde was not called. (Further correspondence between Lloyd Price and Mayward Grant was read by Mr. Elliott.) There were so many more reports than we have seen that I cannot remember one from another. There were only two reports referring to the North Wales Company; and those were by Washington Davies and Case. At the time I was promoting the company there would be other reports which have not been used. I do not know where they are. There are many papers I do not know what has become of. I remember now that I asked Price if he had any reports on the property, and as far as I remember he said "Yes, he had some old reports." I asked if I could use them; he replied that if I did I would have to pay for them over again, therefore he suggested I should have fresh reports. That is how Washington Davies and Case were introduced. (A prospectus of Festiniog; Slate Quarries, Limited, was read.) I did not make inquiries

quiries about the Festiniog Slate Quarries, Limited, except as to the passage which I took from it to use in my prospectus. I did not think it worth while. It is rather difficult to make inquiries about slate quarries; they guard all their secrets. I know one of the directors, Mr. Plowman, but I had not seen him for some years. I had scores of interviews with Mr. Price. The letter of January 21, 1904, is from Mr. Price in reply to an invitation to join the board, in which he says he would not care for the post, and giving reasons. The reason I had Mr. Case's opinion was that in talking the matter over with Mr. Dodgson as a proposed director of the North Wales Company, I asked him if he knew a good engineer who would make a report. He eventually introduced Mr. Gray, and the latter introduced Mr. Case. I had never heard of Case previously. I was informed that he was an associate member of the Institute of Civil Engineers, and I believed it, just as I believed you to be a barrister, though I have no proof of it. As far as I remember I never saw Mr. Case till I saw him in Court. I never made the slightest suggestion to him as to influencing his report, and never held out any reward to him except his fee. Any negotiations with Mr. Case about becoming consulting engineer to the company were after he made his report. I believed his report was an honest one and I believe so now; that is why I put his full report in the prospectus. I never heard that Mr. Case had not been to a slate quarry in his life before. I believe Mr. Darby saw him when he came to the office. The two reports used in the North Wales prospectus were by Washington Davies and Case, and they coincided with all the old reports that had been handed to me, so that convinced me that they must be right. These reports and the prices from the old prospectus forwarded by Mr. Price were the only materials for the prospectus, except getting books and statistics, which compared favourably with what appeared. For instance, in the book "Hints to Young Valuers," a particular profit comes to within 3d. of the 32s. 6d. which we ear-marked. I cannot say exactly what passage I relied on in that book; it is so many years ago. The passage I referred to where the profit came to within 3d. of Mr. Gray's figure is on page 605. I also wrote to trade journals for their papers and received them. There is a letter of May 24, 1904, to the "State Trade Gazette," for instance (read). We received the paper asked for, and a heap of statistics. We also wrote to the "Slate Trade Journal" and "Timber." Some of the information we got was practically nil; other was useful. I asked everybody who would be likely to know as to the figures in the Festiniog Slate Company prospectus and they all confirmed them. I will give you their names; I think they are going to be called. F. C. Davis was one, Price, his agent Watkins, the manager of the works, I think Edwards and Jones. These are all people down at the place. The figures were also put before the directors. I cannot think of anyone else for the moment. I relied on the contracts of the past firm and on every statement that I had heard that the property was magnificent. I did not read all the reports by "the well-known authorities" referred to. I read extracts and my attention was

drawn to other parts by Darby and F. C. Davis. It was Darby who decided as to the extracts that should go in the prospectus. I knew and approved of them, of course. We had many conversations about it. Darby told me that he read the whole of the old reports. I could not help believing the statements in the old reports. I had seen Washington Davies, F. C. Davis, Andreas Roberts, and Mr. Gray, but not John Williams, Richard Roberts, Edwin Hoal, nor J. S. Foster. I believed Mr. Gray to be a person of competence and skill, and was not informed that he had no experience of slate quarries. I practically took the same material for the Welsh Slates Company that I did in the North Wales. Of course, I had seen the property, which convinced me, as it would anybody, that it was good. I paid several visits to Gorddinan Farm. When I went there everybody you met in the street would say that it was rumoured and believed that the Oakeley Company were working under the Gorddinan property, and they contemplated trying to get an action for damages. I heard nothing but what was good of the property. Charles Anton, referred to in the contract of May, 1904, was a cousin of Darby's. Darby asked me if I would allow his cousin to join us as he had some money which he wished to invest in helping the promotion. He provided some of the expenses, but had nothing further to do with the matter after the agreement of June 2, whereby as transfers the agreement for lease for £3,500 to the City of London Investment Corporation. There is another agreement of June 3 between the Corporation and Marcus as trustee for the North Wales Company. The reason Marcus was appointed trustee was because he was secretary, and you must have a trustee for a proposed company. He was a clerk in the office of the Corporation before that. He started with us at 30s. a week and gradually rose to £5. Apart from his salary he had no pecuniary interest in the company, nor did he exercise any controlling influence. The agreement of June 3 provides for the payment by the Corporation of the expenses of formation, estimated at £520, and the Corporation transferred to the trustee the agreement with Anton for £9,000 in cash, debentures, and shares. From start to finish we were about £1,000 out as regards the promotion expenses. I do not think Mr. Fox's figures tally with ours, and they could not very well, because he does not know what we paid for prospectuses, etc. One of the principal items was amount paid for issuing prospectuses, paid to the London Share and Debenture Company. I cannot give the exact amount. I have had the figures before. I have been very ill, and on my back for two months. The account produced, I expect I helped to prepare. The £341 for printing was to Judd and Co. The account also shows £569 for stamping and addressing prospectuses, registration, etc., Somerset House, £200, machinary £49, and items for travelling expenses, etc.; the total disbursements being £4,313. On the other side is £2,600 cash received, and £699 repayment of loan. The North Wales Company owe us the best part of £2,000 for money we have advanced. The £2,600 is on account of purchase. We do not come out of the concern with a large

sum in our pockets. We spent £4,314, and received £3,299. We also received £2,500 fully-paid debentures and we sold some of them. In the North Wales Company the Investment Corporation spent in promotion expenses £3,205 and received £9,550 cash. In regard to obtaining directors for the companies, I introduced Mr. Bridger and Mr. Dodgson into both companies. I knew the former many years ago; ever since I was a child. I think he would describe himself as a journalist. I forget the name of the papers he was connected with; he will be called. He was on several companies before. He is the son of the lord of the manor of Mitcham. His father and mine were old friends. I placed before him all the papers and documents I had up to that time. I do not know whether the remuneration was mentioned then. I think Bridger had been connected with slate quarries many years ago. Darby introduced Mr. Lawrie, who is now dead. I forget what he was. I understood both from him and Mr. Darby that he understood all about slates. The principal reason given to me was that he was on a slate quarry in New Zealand or Australia many years previously. Everything was placed before the directors when they met, sometimes together and sometimes singly. As far as I remember, Sir John Campbell was written to by the Corporation asking if he would call with a view to taking a seat on the board. I forget who mentioned his name, but we wrote to him as a stranger. I had not seen him in my life before. I put before him everything I had at the moment, which was very little, principally Mr. Price's letters. He took nores of some of the things and said he would call again. I cannot remember whether anything was said as to his knowedge of slates. I took him to be an experienced director. I had been told he was, and I may have looked up the year book or "Directory of Directors." He told me that most of the companies had gone into liquidation. (Formal evidence was given as to the registration of company, appointment of directors, etc.) The only part the directors took in preparing the prospectus was to see it being built up from time to time. They were thoroughly conversant with the materials on which the prospectus was framed. (Further formal evidence was given as to cheques drawn in favour of the Corporation and debentures allotted in discharge of the purchase price.) As regards the suggestion that the North Wales Company had only £97 working capital on September 16,1904, the company, of course, was a borrowing one, therefore they borrowed from us or from the public and issued debentures for it. They received £200 or £300 for shares also. Not all of the money they got came back to the Corporation. The money the North Wales Company got was paid to us on account of contracts specified on the prospectus. We had always told the directors we would lend them money and help them as much as we could, and we did. The second prospectus of October 28, which offered 250 debentures at a premium of 10s. was an issue by the Corporation, not the company. It was approved by a resolution of the directors of the North Wales Company, also signed by them and filed at Somerset✗ House. I could not tell you the result of that prospectus

off hand. The prospectuses were always debenture ones. The prospectus that was issued in French suggested, I believe, by Mr. Dodgson, resulted in nil. Mr. Desiree came along long after that issue. We had nothing to do with the issue of any of the prospectuses except the 1902 one and that issued by the Corporation. In June, 1905, there were 748 debentures issued. The proportion held by the public would be rather more than ours—515 out of 748. I was astonished that 47 debentures held by the Corporation were drawn to three by the public. I had nothing to do with the preparing of the tickets for the drawing. I knew they were going to be drawn and was present. They were prepared by the clerks in the office of the Corporation. The latter undertook to supply furnished offices, together with secretarial work. When there was more work than could be done at London Wall it was done at the Corporation office. Mr. Reynolds is a brother-in-law of mine. He was a clerk first of all, then he developed into an accountant; he had been learning engineering before he came to us, and anything in that way that cropped up he had to do. I should describe him as a clever engineer. I have seen him take the whole of a motor car to pieces and put it together again. He was called out in the middle of the night to move a steam roller that the engineers themselves could not move, and he succeeded in doing it. Reynolds and Darby came ever together to this drawing—I don't know whether any of the directors were there. As a rule the directors met in the room or on the stairs, so that they all practically went in together. I remember Darby and Reynolds coming into the room with the directors. I was at the back. I believe Marcus has drafted a plan of the table. At the drawing, the papers which had been made out by the clerks in the office were brought in by Reynolds and handed them to the chairman; he put them into a hat, shook it, held it high over his head, and drew out the numbers one by one. It was not till the following day that we found out we had been so lucky. Darby and I were very much surprised when we heard it. I do not say that we were "gratified"; the drawing could never have been made if we had not advanced the money, and a few hundreds more or less did not make any difference. There was absolutely nothing improper shout the drawing; I was guilty of no fraud in connection with it. As to MacAndrew, Robinson, and Co., I started that company just the same as I had started Carlton, Gray and Co.; it was to do exactly similar business. Carlton, Gray and Co. kept books; these were all destroyed when the firm was given up; it did very little business; I think it had no banking account. With regard to the letters of MacAndrew, Robinson, and Co., offering debentures at a discount on behalf of "a client who was going abroad," the fact was that we were going abroad; Darby and I did go to Ostend.

Mr. Justice Bigham. Then Darby and you were the "clients" referred to in the letters? A. I expect so. Q. Then MacAndrew, Robinson and Co. was Darby and Gyde? A. Yes. Q. And Darby and Gyde were MacAndrew, Robinson's "clients"? A. It did not alter the debentures.

(Friday, October 30.)

HENRY WARWICK GYDE , further examined. As to the statement I made when examined before the Official Receiver as to having taken part in the drawing of the debentures, I had nothing to do either with putting the papers into the hat, folding them, or taking them out. From start to finish I had nothing whatever to do with the drawings beyond being in the room. I cannot explain why anybody should have made the statement that I had taken part in folding the papers. It was thought they were folded when, as a matter of fact, they were not folded, and when you come to consider the matter, the reason I suggest they were not folded was that the hat was held above the head. If they had been folded there would have been no occasion to hold the hat above the head. When the drawing was finished all the papers were emptied on the table. The 50 that had been drawn were by the side of the chairman, Sir John Campbell. The remainder I understand were kept by the secretary. I have not seen them since I left the room on that particular day. There was a pile of them. The directors were asked to examine them, and I think somebody did examine them. The papers remained on the table five minutes or ten minutes—then they were ewept in the grate, where, it being summer, there was no fire. On October 6, 1905, resolutions were passed by the North Wales Company and the Welsh Slate Company approving the amalgamation of the two companies and directing the calling of meetings to be held at the quarries. Notices convening these meetings were issued on October 10, and were signed by Marcus as secretary of the two companies. The circular stated that an agreement had been entered into for the registration of a new company to take over the property of the old companies and acquire new quarries. The debenture-holders were not recognised, and could not be reeognised as a body to communicate with, looking to the fact that the debentures were to "bearer," but as all the debenture-holders had bonus shares notices sent to the shareholders necessarily reached the debenture-holders. The shareholders and debenture-holders of the old companies were to have shares in the new company, and an issue of £15,000 of debentures was to be made to the public. Meetings were held at the quarries on October 20, the reason for that being as suggested by Sir John Campbell that the debenture-holders and shareholders might have an opportunity of seeing them. The reason was so stated in the circular. There is no truth in the suggestion that the quarries were selected as the places of meeting because it was not likely that people would go there. It is true that Bala is a long way off, but London would have been equally inconvenient for many. The North Wales meeting was held first. My recollection is that there were about five people present. Mr. Price was there but did not go into the room, and there were others outside, perhaps four or five, who I understood did not want to be parties to the proceedings. They were asked, begged to come in. I do not know their names, but they said they were shareholders. The minute recording the meeting was put in, the following resolutions were passed: "That

the company be wound up, and that Mr. Godwin be appointed liquidator. That the contract of agreement for the liquidation and sale of the assets of the company be adopted. That the liquidator be authorised to carry out the above resolutions." At the Welsh Slate Company's meeting similar resolutions were recorded. There were more shareholders, perhaps 10, outside the room than at the other meeting. For reasons best known to themselves they would not come in. I do not know who they were. They represented themselves as shareholder. Sir John Campbell or one of the other gentlemen might know who they were. On November 4 meetings to confirm the resolutions were held at the Marona'✗ Hall Tavern in London. Notices of those meetings had been sent out in the usual way. The custom at such meetings is for the names to be taken on a piece of paper and the minute book is written up afterwards. No minutes of these meetings are recorded. I imagine the document produced is the agenda, as it is signed by Sir John Campbell; it gives a number of those present, but there is no record of what was done. A number of people went into the room without signing. As far as my memory goes there were 30 or 40 people present and about 20 others outside the room. I myself stood at the door to see that only shareholders were in the room. I do not suggest that that was done in the interests of the public, but if the Court had had as much experience of wreckers as I have they would understand my object. You cannot be in the financial world without having experience of wreckers. Wreckers are persons who improperly destroy a company. They were there to wreck this scheme of amalgamation, and what are called sixpenny touting solicitors' circulars were going out intimating to shareholders not to have anything to do with amalgamation. Sir John Campbell can tell you more about it than I can. I have not any of the circulars; I saw them at the time. I did not prevent any bona-fide shareholder entering the room. So far as I know none of the persons outside were entitled to come in; on their own statements they were not so entitled. Confirmatory resolutions were passed at these two meetings, one being held at four o'clock and the other at five o'clock, and Mr. Harry Thorne Godwin (Messrs. Godwin, Thorne, and Co., Regent Street, London) was appointed liquidator. Debentureholders' actions were commenced subsequently, resulting in the winding-up of the companies by order of the Court in February, 1906. I was told by the Official Receiver that in each case the landlord resumed possession of the property. I do not think the machinery and plant were sold because, as I understand, they are still there. I attended in the course of the winding-up and gave evidence at very considerable length. From the outset I supplied the Official Receiver with any material documents I had in my possession; I gave him all the information in my power and in relation to all matters in which he sought my assistance I gave him every assistance I could. It was not until the spring of this year, two or two and a half years after the public examination, that these criminal proceedings were initiated. So soon as process was issued against me I at once met

it without any attempt at absconding. I not only came to meet it myself but I took the process to Mr. Darby, who was ill in bed with a sprained ankle. I have from time to time surrendered to my bail and come here to stand my trial.

Cross-examined. I still maintain that these are good valuable commercial concerns; I cannot help thinking that they must be good; I have not seen any reason to alter the. view expressed in the prospectus. Rival criticism is all I have noticed. I regarded the reports. I received about the properties as honest reports, and I regard them today as reports given by competent men, and so far as I am myself concerned I do not complain that I have been cheated or deceived in the sale of these quarries either by the vendors or the experts who made reports. I have known Darby since about the beginning of 1903. I met him at my wife's house. By "my wife's house" I mean that she rented the house, and the furniture was hers. I lived with her. He was introduced by a mutual friend whom I had not seen for ten years and whose name I forget. I am very bad at remembering names. As soon as it comes across my memory I will mention it to his Lordship. This friend mentioned me to Darby and Darby called at my house. He was introduced with a view to entering into partnership with me, as a suitable person. I naturally made inquiries about the man who wanted to become my partner. I do not know whether you would call them strict inquiries. He told me all about his business in the past. He told me he had been in the furnishing line; also that he, a single man, had been in partnership with a lady and that the partnership was dissolved because they could not agree. He told me he had dealt in bills, but not that he had been a bill broker. I gathered that he knew a good deal about bills and had used them in his business. He did not tell me he had been an auctioneer's clerk. At that time he was not carrying on business anywhere, but was living at Sutherland House, Surbiton, in the same neighbourhood that I was living. I had just given up the Carlton Gray office at 32, Cheapside, and had no business. Carlton Gray and Co. never did any business. We endeavoured to do business, but never did any; and that is the reason there was no banking account. I did not use my own name because many years previously I had been a large payer to advertising agents for newspapers, and in my then position, not being rich, if I had wanted to associate myself with a company, unless I did it according to their views and in a most lavish way, taking pages and half-pages, which cost a large sum of money, the socalled "rags" of newspapers would simply slate me to death. It was not because I was ahamed of my past name. I have paid the newspapers £28,000 in one year. I abandoned the name of Carlton Gray because it is the custom if you have been unsuccessful, say, as Smith and Co., when you start again, as I did after a lapse of time, not to take up the name under which you have been unsuccessful. We abandoned the name of Mayward Grant when we wound the business up. I cannot tell how many names I have traded under. I have had two individual names, Gyde and

Bernard. Darby was never in the office at 32, Cheapside. The first office we had was a small office just round the corner from London Wall, No. 118-19, in the name of Mayward Grant and Co. Mayward never existed. I was generally taken for Mayward and Darby was many times taken for Grant. If anybody had come into the office and addressed me as Mayward I should not have denied that that was my name. Darby took the premises, and the agreement was witnessed by Mayward. I do not think I ever signed myself as Mayward, but Darby must have signed as Grant because he took the offices. It is possible I may have done so. You get so accustomed to the trading name that you almost become the name. As I came into the office in the morning the porter used to say "Good morning, Mr. Mayward," and I should not contradict him. I am not aware that Darby had ever passed by a false name before. I took Darby into partnership because he seemed to be a business man. Mayward Grant had nothing to do with furniture, auctioneering, or bill broking. Darby was to have brought £200 into the concern, but the actual amount he brought in was £70. I have since learned that he was an undischarged bankrupt. The firm had accounts with the London and Joint Stock Bank, the South-Western, and the Trading Bank. Mayward Grant and Co. were stock and share dealers or stock and share brokers. I do not know what you would call them. We described ourselves as bankers as well. I think the capital I brought in was about the same, £70. I was then an undischarged bankrupt.

To the Court. I do not realise that anything I had belonged to the trustee in bankruptcy, because if it were so in actual practice a man would be starving and die; he could not live. But the £70 did not belong to me; it was my wife's. I do not know, my Lord, why my wife should be ridiculed because she lent me money.

Mr. Justice Bigham. I am not ridiculing your wife. It is this concern I am ridiculing if I am ridiculing anything at all—this socalled banking business.

Cross-examination continued. It was not a banking business when it started. It became a banking business with its success. It was to commence with an outside broker's business—a speculative business, and was at a later stage thus described: "Reliable Stock Exchange information. Special advice on Home and American Rails. What to buy for quick profit. Wire or write Mayward Grant and Co., Stock Exchange Bankers." The word "bankers" is not a printer's error. We never had an account at the Bank of England as "Mayward Grant and Co.," but Darby had an account there as "Mr. Grant" or "Mr. Mayward," or "Mr. Mayward Grant." I think his account was "Mr. Mayward Grant," as one individual. That account was only open a very short time—a few weeks; it might have extended to seven. I could not tell what was the turnover during that period. I am not sure whether the account was opened with £1,000 or £2,000. It was closed because, as I was told, the bank said they did not care about having an outside broker's account. I cannot tell the date to which Mayward Grant's business was continued. After

the City of London Investment Corporation was registered in October, 1903, we were for some nine months winding up the business of Mayward Grant. We stopped business practically when we started as the City of London Investment Corporation at the same address, 119, London Wall. I was made bankrupt in the name of Bernard. That may have been a reason for not using my own name. We also carried on business in the name of Lawson and Co. at Parliament Chambers, Westminster. I could not tell you the date, but it was some year or two after the City of London Investment Corporation had been registered. I have not been able since yesterday to find the letter book of the Corporation. Lawson and Co. promoted the Kent County Gas Company. That is the only business they did. They occupied their offices about 12 months. We also carried on business as W. Darby and Co., land agents, at 5, Lothbury, for over a year. At that time we were dealing in land. I think we put the name Darby and Co. up as soon as we ceased to do business as the City of London Investment Corporation. We carried on as W. Darby and Co. until the very last, until I ceased to see Darby. I had nothing to do with Auton and Co. I do not think a business was carried on in that name at my office at 119-20, London Wall. Darby's Christian names were "Walter Scott." A business was carried on in the name of Walter Scott and Co. at 119-20, London Wall. I think that completes the list of businesses I carried on at that particular address. The Stock Exchange Investment Corporation has never been there. I have heard of it and had a friend in it, but I do not want to discuss my friends' business. The friend I had in the Stock Exchange Investment Corporation was named Knapton. I am not aware that he was an undischarged bankrupt. The Corporation was registered. I was not a promoter of it and did not sign the articles of association. I do not know what is the issue in Houses London Limited. I have been to their offices to see friends of mine. That also belongs to Knapton. I see by the print of the memorandum and articles of association of the City of London Investment Corporation, Limited, produced, that I signed the articles. I had forgotten. The signatories are "Walter Darby, 12, Stafford Street, N. W., banker," and "Henry Warwick Gyde, 119, London Wall, E. C., accountant." I was senior partner in the business, but Darby always described himself as a banker to me. I suppose he made that out from his bill-discounting business. If he was a banker I was a banker too, when we were in partnership. At the later stage the bargain was that I should have two-thirds of the profits and he one-third. With regard to Marcus, his real name is Bernard, but he has been known for years as Marcus. It got to be "Mr. Marcus," and he gradually dropped the name of Bernard and everybody addressed him as Marcus. The name must have cropped up through our both being Bernard at that time. I do not remember his ever coming to the office at 32, Cheapside. That office consisted of one room with a number of desks, so that gentemen having the opportunity of writing at those desks might have a City address. On refreshing my memory, I think I must have seen him there. I believe he has traded as Edwards and Co. and as

Hammond and Co. As far as my knowledge goes, all his businesses were connected with income-tax. I do not remember the name of S. Norman and Co. at 32, Cheapside. It may have been there after I left. The sheet produced with the heading "S. Norman and Co., 32, Cheapside," is in my brother's writing. He never told me he was trading as "S. Norman and Co." This is the first I have heard of the name as far as I can remember and I knew nothing of what is written on that sheet. I never knew he was endeavouring to start as a stock and share dealer. I am positive he was not drafting a circular for me. "Reliable Stock Exchange information," etc., is rather like Mayward Grant; probably he copied from their circular. It was not the first time somebody had been trespassing on my copyright. I am taken for several firms in the City and have been for years, because people have copied my literature. Some people wanted to serve me with a writ in respect of a firm I knew nothing of except by reputation. Currie and Crispe is the name of one of the firms that took my copyright. They copied everything, body and soul—by that I mean to express that there was scarcely a word difference between us. My brother lived at Clare Cottage, Church Hill, Loughton, Essex. I never heard of him trying to sell debentures in the Slate Quaries Companies from that address in the name of Hammond by advertising them in the "Exchange and Mart." I cannot account for two letters from debenture-holders in answer to the advertisement in the "Exchange and Mart" being among the papers of the Corporation unless he was acting with the knowledge of the directors. He did not own debentures himself, but I know he was often asked by debentureholders to sell some of their debentures. I cannot call to mind that Darby and myself ever asked him to sell debentures. If you have the letter-book here I think you would find letters to this effect:" In reply to your letter, I will do my best to dispose of your debentures if you will let me know the lowest price you will take. "Marcus wrote many such letters and it may be in connection with those advertisements. I do not know what business he carried on in the name of Hammond. I was only at his house once. I believe that after he left me he had another address as "J. Hammond" at 31, King Street, Cheapside. He may have had various addresses. I did not bother about his business addresses after he left me. If I wanted to write to him I used to write to his private address. Marcus was a clerk in the office of Mayward Grant and Co. for two or three years, so that he was acquainted with what was going on under that name. The City of London Investment Corporation was formed as a limited company because we had had for some time previously a large number of properties offered to turn into companies. Certainly Mayward Grant and Co. might have floated the companies; they had plenty of money, but it was not more expensive to register the company in Guernsey than in England; it was the cheapest method. It was dearer certainly than continuing in the name of Mayward Grant and Co. The object was to develop the City of London Investment Corporation into a very large concern. The paid-up capital

was only £11 15s., but we were going to increase it and if the business we had in hand had come off the Corporation would have had a paid-up capital of something like £500,000. It had a nominal capital of £100,000 with a view to issuing it to the public and the holders of it would have been lucky people if all our contemplated contracts had been fulfilled. From start to finish the City of London Investment Corporation made money. The sum of £11 15s. does not represent its capital at all. It had at least £5,000 or £10,000 of solid cash.

Mr. Justice Bigham. If instead of making money the Corporation had lost money, how were the persons to whom it owed money to get paid? A. Our contracts, as far as I can remember, were with people who knew us and knew that we should pay and always did pay. Q. You were not shareholders. You had one share each. You could not have been made to pay. A. I am not sure about that. Many of the contracts, although they were with the City of London Investment Corporation, were entered into personally by ourselves. For example, we entered into contracts with Judd, the printer, and always paid him. He would have been entitled to sue us if we had not and we should have had to pay. We did not want the City of London Investment Corporation to enable us to enter into contracts in our own name, but as I have told you we intended to develop it into a very large business.

Cross-examination, continued. Marcus was engaged as clerk in the office and would know most of the business. MacAndrew, Robinson. and Co., of Gracechurch-street, were called into existence to sell shares or debentures. I do not know that they ever sold any; they wound up instead. I think it was Darby who invented the name and I agreed to it; he generally invented the names. As far as I know he never invented a false name for himself before he came into contact with me. Darby and I were in the office where the business of MacAndrew and Robinson was carried on at least twice a week. Marcus superintended it and there were other clerks. I suppose he would describe himself as manager. Darby and myself have always admitted that that business belonged to us. There was no business to conduct except when we sent out letters offering shares or debentures. There were some issues of other shares, but they were not sold. I think MacAndrew, Robinson and Co. had a letter-book. I have not the remotest idea where it is. When my bankruptcy cropped up I ceased to have anything to do with the business. Mr. Darby last had the books of the whole of the businesses we were connected with. I wish I could tell where Darby is, because his absence is prejudicing me most unfairly. The document produced is a letter bearing the facsimile signature of MacAndrew, Robinson and Co. offering the companies' debentures for sale. It is either printed in imitation of typewriting, or may have been done by a duplicator. Some hundreds were sent out to share and debenture holders in both the slate companies. The circular was not sent to the City of London Investment Corporation. That would have been superfluous as they held debentures as our nominee. Those debentures we have always said all the way through

belong to Darby and myself. The explanation of the statement in the circular that MacAndrew, Robinson and Co. had instructions from a client to offer his debentures for sale as he was going abroad is that the client was ourselves. We were going abroad and did go abroad. We did not suggest to the public that the promoters of this concern were selling their own vendors' debentures through this means. I have never known anybody do such a thing as say that shares were promoters' shares unless they were different shares or debentures from anybody else's. In this case one bond was the same as another. The bonds belonging to the Corporation were the same as those belonging to individual debenture-holders. There was no concealment about it. Why should we mention that these were Corporation Bonds? There was nothing to conceal; the debentures were to "bearer." I do not think MacAndrew, Robinson and Co. kept any books except a letter-book. I do not accept the suggestion that the name of MacAndrew, Robinson and Co. was a means of concealing, the identity of the persons using that name. Its business was to keep books, but it had not sufficient business. It never did anything but sell shares belonging to the Corporation and other debenture-holders in the Slate Quarries. The firm tried to do business by selling the shares and debentures of other companies by means of similar letters, or by advertisements, but failed. They had no banking, account. I last saw Darby, who has left England, at about half-past seven on the evening of the day when I first appeared at the Mansion House. Darby did not discuss with me the question of going away. I had not the slightest idea he was going. I cannot suggest anything that Darby did in connection with this business that I did not do. We acted in partnership throughout, and in my opinion neither of us did anything that we need be ashamed of doing. Darby mentioned as a reason why he thought he would not get bail that he had been connected with some trouble years previously which had reference to large losses in some financial business. He was under the impression that a warrant was issued for his apprehension. I pointed out to him that that could not be so. I asked him in what name. He said, "Darby." I said, "What Christian name?" He said, "Walter Scott Darby." So I said, "How is that possible looking to the fact that we have traded as 'Walter Scott' and 'Darby'?" If there had been any warrant out for him years ago it must have been served. I also pointed out to him that the warrant could have been served during the bankruptcy proceedings. Still he persisted that he was afraid that he would not get bail, and that is the only reason I can surmise why he has not put in an appearance. I said he had nothing to fear, and he told his solicitor the same thing with regard to these two concerns, it astonished me that he did go and I cannot understand why, if he contemplated going, he should have the evening before he went handed his solicitor £50 on account of coming expenses; it did not coincide with him going on the morrow. He did not appear to be afraid of these proceedings at all, but he was afraid that the warrant which had been issued against him for other alleged crimes might be executed. Darby and I advertised periodically for businesses to promote,

always in initials, as far as I can remember. In addition we had properties offered to us. When we had a business, as a rule we proceeded to form a company and offered it to the public at a considerably enhanced price. As a rule we provided the offices and the staff and would nominate some of the directors, who would nominate others. After the formation of the company the whole of the proceedings were not necessarily under our control. The directors always had full control to do as they liked. We then appealed to the public for subscriptions if the thing had arrived at that stage. Money in payment of the promotion consideration only passed to us in accordance with the terms of the contracts and would be drawn in the usual way. After that had been done it is quite possible that we proceeded by means of circulars from concerns like MacAndrew, Robinson and Co., to sell such shares as we had got as promoters to the public. The Hull Soap Works, Limited, was one of our promotions. I expect we had reports from experts; I do not remember; if we did they were published in the prospectus, and upon those reports we would make a statement as to what the income of the company would be. We went to the public, but I cannot remember whether the amount we got in cash was £12,234 15s. 7d. Whatever we got was paid into the corporation. The Soap Company is now in liquidation. Richard Reynolds was one of the directors nominated by me. He may be described as a mechanical engineer. He was nominated because he was my brother-in-law and we wanted a director. Mr. Edgar Parr, another director, was introduced by Judd, the printer. The West Suburban Gas Light and Coke Company, Limited, was another of our promotions. Reynolds was also a director of that and was described in the prospectus as a gas engineer. He had been working at this particular gas works for some months previously and I suppose that would justify him in calling himself a gas engineer. I thought it a very fair description. At the time he was living in rooms in Park Lane and his address read in this very respectable fashion: "Richard Reynolds, 15, Park Lane, London, W., gas engineer." He has driven a motor-car with me in it, but I have never engaged him nor paid him any wages for acting as chauffeur. Edgar Parr was also a director of that company. The Kent County Gas Company was a promotion of ours. I do not remember whether Reynolds was a director of that. If he was he would be nominated by us. Mr. Parr was a director. To the best of my recollection both these gentlemen came on to the board some time afterwards. I did not read what was said about Reynolds and Parr by Mr. Justice Joyce. It is quite possible that Parr and Reynolds were directors in another gas company of ours. As to whether I have any explanation to offer why the slate quarries are now derelict, it is very difficult to advise people to put money into them because they are speculative, to say the best of them. When you are dealing with the bowels of the earth it is always speculative. You often go on working without results, and all of a sudden you come to wealth. Thousands and thousands of cases are so earmarked, and particularly is that the case with the Greaves property, near Oakley.

That property went on for many years without making profits, and I am told certain things were mortgaged, and the home was sold up. Then at last they struck the right vein, and have been making £40,000 a year ever since. That is what I have been told. I think Mr. F. C. Davis will confirm what I say. I think one of the reports said: "This quarry is removed from the speculative element," or words to that effect. The statement that "the yearly income (of the North Wales) when the contemplated further developments have been carried out, will, it is anticipated, exceed £10,000 per annum," is taken from the report is it not. As to how it was that I discovered down in Wales the best way of making a fortune out of this slate quarry which had lain derelict for 40 years, if you take the correspondence you will see that Mr. Price bears that out, and with regard to payment he said: "I will take it all in paper of the company to be formed." It is not connect to say that Darby and I discovered the fortune that was to be made out of it, because it was worked by Davis for two or three years before we came on the scene. I never asked Davis to show me his books so that I might see what profit he was making out of it, nor did he produce to me any papers, but he told me he had been developing and had arrived at a stage when he thought he would make profits. The statements in the prospectuses of the two companies were founded upon new and old reports in writing, verbal statements from people on the spot, hints from surveyors, correspondence from Lloyd Price and Davis, and viewing the place myself. I had no connection with the Festiniog Company—a great deal of the matter for the prospectuses was taken from that prospectus, particularly the tableau of prices—all three being slate mines in the neighbourhood of Festiniog the language would naturally be similar. I do not know who were the signatories of the Welsh Slate Quarries. Harry F. James and F. E. Judd signed the memorandums of association of both the Welsh Slate and the Festiniog Companies, probably because Judds were the printers of both. James is a clerk to Judds. The manner of issuing the capital is the same—the shares being given as bonus with the debentures; that is an old form which has been followed for 40 years. There is a similar issue of a series of prospectuses. I do not know who promoted the Festiniog Company. Auton took over part of the liability of providing preliminary expenses for the two companies—he did not have to pay anything. I believe lie is about 28; he has the appearance of being five or six years younger. Lloyd Price sold to Auton certain machinery, etc., for £1,200, which Auton subsequently sold to the company for £9,000. The City of London Investment Corporation did not get all the profit—there was no profit. I have not seen Auton here; he has not absconded. Bridger was a journalist—he edited five or six papers. I did not know he was associated with a convict named Tarrant in a bucket-shop business. I think Bridger is here as a witness; I have seen him in court. Darby selected Laurie as a director, as a man who knew all about slates. Dodgson was a business man of experience; Darby selected him; he had been connected with many companies which had gone into liquidation;

he would understand the conduct of company's meetings. Sir John Campbell was connected with several companies. We wrote to him to become a director because he was mentioned by a friend in the City. Reynolds and the solicitor, E. G. Barrett, were trustees for the debenture-holders of one company and Sir John Campbell and Barrett of the other. The prospectus stated that the trustees were to be appointed by the debenture-holders. No notice had been sent out to call a meeting; it was suggested that it would be expensive to do so, and as Barrett offered his services for a fee of ten guineas, and Sir J. Campbell agreed to act without a fee it was considered that would be sufficient. The solicitor drew up the deed and so approved of it. I saw Reynolds a week ago. He is not here that I know of. I never saw Case until I saw him in court. Darby saw him. I did not know he had never been in a slate quarry. Gray said he could not go himself, and that he would introduce a very good man to report on the mine—that was Case. It is not true as described in the prospectus that he is a well-known authority on slate quarries—so far as I knew it was true at the time. Washington Davies was managing a slate quarry earning many thousands a year. I have not been able to procure his attendance here for want of means. (At the suggestion of the Judge the prosecution offered to obtain the attendance of Davies and that of other witnesses desired by the prisoner, which was accepted by prisoner's counsel.) I did not entirely rely on opinions given by the vendor and his agent Jones—it was coupled with other reports. I had nothing to do with the issue of the prospectus—it was issued by the directors. I attended the first meeting and some of the later ones, but not all. Sometimes when we did not go the chairman or one or two of the directors would send over to London Wall and ask if we would oblige them by attending. The first prospectus I drafted verbally and Darby and the clerk completed it; the same would apply to the Welsh Slate Quarry prospectus. Alterations were made under the instructions of the directors by Marcus or one of the clerks; there were few or no alterations; I cannot name a particular director who altered it—it was done by all of them. In this prospectus I am not aware of any alteration, except the date and the number of debentures that are left. The first one showed 1,000, the second one 343. With regard to the Welsh Slate Quarry, I relied upon the statements of F. C. Davis. I am going to call him; he is an accountant in Cannon Street; I think he lives at Sutton. F. C. Davis was in communication with the Official Receiver in one of my companies. He was very much annoyed and spoke to me. We did not promise to take up 500 of his debentures. What was said was this. He said, "Will you sell my debentures?" and we said we would when we had sold our own. There may have been some further promise; there was much discussion; he was very much annoyed, and he put the blame on to me when this company was in liquidation and instead of his paper turning out trumps it was worthless. F. C. Davis would be a very material witness before the Official Receiver, but I do not remember saying so. I did not say to him, "When it is all over I will give you a further pony"—

that is £25. He may have told me that he had already been before the Official Receiver. F. C. Davis, I believe, went down to the meeting in Wales on October 20 with me and Sir J. Campbell in the train. Marcus was not in the same carriage. It is absolutely untrue that I dictated to Marcus what Sir J. Campbell should say as chairman at the meeting. I did not tell Sir J. Campbell to refuse accounts on the ground that it was not the end of the financial year. I will not swear whether F. C. Davis was with us in the train or not. On February 24, 1906, F. C. Davis wrote to us reproaching us for our roguery, etc.—this was in reference to not taking up the debentures. We replied through our solicitor, Mr. G. E. Barrett. There were interviews about it. It was in consequence of what the Official Receiver had told him. The truth is that this would never have taken place if there had not been stated by the Official Receiver that which was untrue. He told all the witnesses that I had tried to "have" (deceive) his department. When I heard about this I said to him, "Mr. Fox, before we go on with the proceedings I feel sure when I have explained the matter to you you will withdraw and apologise to me." He said, "What have I done?" I said, "You have told every witness that I have tried to 'have' the department." He said, "Well, I did not say those exact words, but is it not so?" This was in connection with a company called the Bread Union. When I told him that I had nothing to do with the Bread Union, he said, "I will endeavour to put the matter right, and I am very sorry to have made the mistake. There is only one gentleman who is here who was in that particular department, and I will see him and have the matter put right." I do not believe that it ever has been put right, and I have gone through all the different officials with this against me that I am a wrong man to start with. It has been spite all the way through. They put the winding-up department on to me. There was a discussion in a train about the accounts and it was suggested it was not the end of the financial year. I am positive I never dictated the chairman's speech in the train. It is stated in the prospectus: "The quarries have been inspected and the quality of the slates reported on by the well-known authorities, Mr. J. F. Gray, Associate Member of the Institute of Civil Engineers, and Mr. G. Washington Davies, Quarry Expert." I should say the initials after Mr. Gray's name entitle him to be called an authority and a well-known authority on slate quarries. I do not know anyone who recognises Mr. Gray as such. He never told me that he had never been in a slate quarry in his life and knew nothing about slate. I asked him if he would make a report, and he said, "Yes, and I have got a very good opportunity of going into it because I know one of the engineers at the Oakley Quarry, which adjoins this." That impressed me very much. At the Mansion House, Mr. Gray swore that in his report he stated the profit as £20,000 per annum gross; that we discussed the word "gross" being taken out, and that I promised to qualify the prospectus if the word was taken out. That is all absolute invention. The Official Receiver put the words into his mouth.

Mr. Muir stated that if such imputations were put upon the Official Receiver the prosecution would have to deal with it.

Mr. F. E. Smith suggested that, as the witness was somewhat over wrought, his cross-examination should be continued on Monday. His Lordship assented.

(Monday, November 2.)

HY. WARWICK GYDE , further cross-examined. The word "gross" was not in Gray's original report. That report was with the papers of the company; I cannot explain how it is that, while all the other reports are produced, this one cannot be found; I wish it could be found. Washington Davies' original report contains the sentence "estimating" so and so "equal to a nett profit of 20s. per ton"; those words are not given in the extracts from the report as set out in the prospectus. The omission was on Gray's suggestion, because he thought the profits would be 32s. 6d. a ton. (Witness was taken through various reports, and his attention called to important paragraphs that were omitted from the extracts published in the prospectuses; he said that he had nothing to do with the compilation of the extracts; Darby read the complete reports, and submitted to the directors the extracts that should be published.) As to the drawing, I have no idea why Reynolds was selected to hold the hat, except that he was one of the trustees; it was not because he was my brother-in-law. After the drawing an advertisement was inserted in "The Times" to the effect that fifty debentures had been drawn at a premium; it was after that that Marcus sent out letters offering debentures for sale for clients who were going abroad, and in the result a number of debentures were taken by the public; but I do not think the drawing had anything to do with this at all. And at that time £500 was nothing to us; before these companies came on the scene we had at least £10,000.

Mr. Justice Bigham: Where was it? A. At various banks. Q. Can you produce bank books showing that? A. I could if Darby was here; most of the money was at his banks; he banked at nearly every bank in London and the provinces. Q. Write down the names of any banks at which there was this £10,000 and I will have them here. A. I cannot bring them here because of the cost. Q. It shall cost you nothing. A. There is not only the cost of bringing the witnesses here, but the expenses of my counsel; the expenses are already £60 to £100 a day; if you paid for more witnesses to come I should find myself with the witnesses but without counsel.

Re-examined: Marcus was for three or four years with Darby and myself, purely as a clerk and secretary to the two companies; he had nothing to do with any financial benefit we stood to make.

MARCUS EDWARD SEPTIMUS BERNARD (prisoner, on oath). I am brother to Gyde; I was with him and Darby as clerk for three and a half years, commencing at a salary of 30s. a week; except for £1 or at the most £5 at Christmas time, that was all the money I had from them; my salary was raised gradually to £5 and then reduced to £3. My principal work was to keep books. Before I went to their office I had had no experience of company work; when I first became secretary of these

companies I had to be taught how to keep an agenda. I had no share whatever in the preparation of these prospectuses; I knew nothing of slates and nothing of company promoting. I was never consulted as to the prospectus or the reports. I knew Miss Chabot; she was employed at the office as bookkeeper to Gyde and Darby when they traded as Mayward, Grant, and Co., and later she became secretary of the companies. As secretary she would write many letters, just as I would; we would write what we were directed. I used to be present at the meetings of directors. On one occasion, when it was proposed to reconstruct the companies, I went down to the quarries with Darby, Gyde, Davis, Sir John Campbell, and others, a party of about nine. In the train going down there was a general conversation on the subject of the proposed meetings; I do not remember hearing Gyde or Darby giving directions or hints to Sir J. Campbell as to what he should say in his speech. With regard to the drawing of the premium debentures, I had nothing to do with it from beginning to end, but I have here an exact plan of the table; I sat behind the chairman. With regard to the MacAndrew Robinson letters, if I signed any it was on instructions. On February 16 I wrote to Mrs. Goodwin, acknowledging cheque and enclosing 160 debentures. I signed in the name of MacAndrew Robinson and Co. That was on instructions of Gyde or Darby. The debentures belonged to City of London Investment Corporation. She bought them in response to our letter recommending the purchase. I may say this is my first experience and will be my last as secretary to any company. On August 3, 1905, I wrote in the name of MacAndrew Robinson and Co. to Mrs. Goodwin: "We are authorised to offer you on behalf of a client, a debenture holder, 25 £10 fullypaid first mortgage debentures at the exceedingly low price of £8 10s.... We strongly recommend your securing the whole of this parcel at this very low figure which we are offering on account of the seller going abroad." The seller was the Corporation. Gyde or Derby drafted that letter, probably at 119, London Wall. The letter was headed 26, Gracechurch Street, the offices of the Welsh Slate Quarries, of which I was secretary. I should say no one managed the business of MacAndrew Robinson and Co.; letters were sent out, and any moneys that came in went to the Corporation account. The Corporation were about to float a company and therefore they wanted money. The letter was drafted by Gyde or Derby at 119, London Wall and I, the secretary of the Welsh Slate Quarries, addressed it from that company's office. I knew I was offering debentures for the Corporation.

Cross-examined. I, Gyde, Darby, Campbell, and F. C. Davis travelled to Wales in a second-class special saloon. I did not take down the chairman's speech in the train. There was a private meeting at the hotel, where some notes were taken down. I do not recollect if it was the substance of the speech that Sir J. Campbell was to make. On May 4, 1905, I received from Mr. Washington Davies a letter about the price lists: "You asked me to send you a price list. Knowing there are no best slates in stock at the quarry, I omitted quoting best slate prices, so that you would not confuse matters." I placed that letter before the directors. They discussed it and left it to Gyde. I knew nothing about slates and took my directions from the board or from Gyde. I sent to Davies proof

price lists. On May 25 Davies wrote that it was a copy of a slate merchant's price list at a higher figure than the quarry could charge, and that there were no machinedressed slates yet produced at the quarry. I did not prepare the list of prices given in the prospectus. When I became secretary I knew nothing about companies or company promotion or slates and had no qualification as a secretary when I started any more than a man out of the street. Since being a clerk in the Inland Revenue I have been doing bookkeeping and advising people with regard to income-tax. I also conducted my father's wine business, when he died, for a short time. Those are all the businesses I have been engaged in. I have drafted bucket-shop circulars at the dictation of Gyde. I shared an office at 32, Cheapside, which some 20 or 30 people used, they paying for the use of the office £1 10s. or 10s. 6d. or 5s. That was in 1902 or 1903. I used the name of S. Norman and Co. I drafted a circular from 31, King Street, in the name of Hammond endeavouring to do "S. P." business—that is, starting price betting business. I also had the form (produced) printed—it is an ordinary bookmaker's form. I used the name of Hammond because people do not like the idea of knowing that one is a starting-price bookmaker. I only got two inquirers and did no business with them. I lived at Clare Cottage, Loughton. Darby and Gyde inserted advertisements in the "Bazaar, Exchange, and Mart" for selling debentures of the two Welsh slate companies. The name of Hammond was used. I had no interest in it. I have always understood that any business man could use any name he liked. I did it as Gyde and Darby's clerk. I thought there was no wrong in it. We did not sell or exchange any debentures to my recollection. I issued circular (produced) in the name of Hammond: "A unique investment, producing a handsome weekly profit without undue risk. Dear Sir, I have a system of roulette by which with a capital of £65 the nett profit should at the end of 14 days' play amount to over £1,000." I will guarantee to the whole world if you put me to the test to come out a winner. I offered to give a full explanation of my system for £25 and that if it did not show a good profit the £25 would be refunded. I gave as an instance the result of a week's play showing winnings amounting to £1,083 4s. When I said I had done no other business I had forgotten that circular. May I tell you that I handed that very paper voluntarily to Inspector Ottoway? I may be different to other people, but I have never done what I thought was wrong. Since I left Gyde in March, 1906, I have been carrying on business in my own name of Edward Bernard in bookkeeping and Income Tax work and offering to give information recommending certain investments on the footing that the client should make me a present if it turned out a success. I had 7,000 copies of circular (produced) printed and sent out. I do not think three people have consulted me, and I have not made anything by it. Circular of August 23, 1905 (produced) refers to my system of roulette to be played at Monte Carlo. Roulette was then played also at Ostend; it was suppressed and was started again with "no Zero." Gyde and Darby went to Ostend about that time. Gyde knew I had knowledge of a roulette system because certain experts had tested it with me; he did not try my system; he went on his own way, putting down £200 or £100.

Re-examined. All the circulars put to me I voluntarily gave to Inspector

Ottoway when arrested. I told my wife to show Inspector Thorpe everywhere I kept my papers. I never did any business with the roulette circulars—they were wasted. I only got two answers, and no business followed. No business followed from the advertisements in the "Exchange and Mart." I put in the advertisements because I was told to do so by my employers. The only money I got was for my services to Gyde and from the occupation of bookkeeping and Income-tax advising since I left him. I was seven years employed by the Inland Revenue, and left of my own accord for the purpose or going into Gyde's service.

FREDERICK CHARLES DAVIS , 90, Cannon Street, Surveyor. In 1900 I took from Andreas Roberts and two others a "Take note" of the Gorddinan Quarries, entered into occupation, and spent between £3,000 and £4,000 in proving and developing the quarry. I worked the land for nearly three years and spent in all £3,386 14s. 10d. I formed the opinion that it was the best slate property I ever opened. I have opened five or six big quarries, and this in the best of the lot. As far as I know the others are doing well; I have sold them—some 15 or 16 years ago. One I sold for £50,000. The Gorddinan Farm would be a payable property if enough money were spent on it to make a good quarry of it—there is no reason why it should not. If I had spent £1,000 to £2,000 more than I did—say £5,000 in all, for machinery and further development—there would have been no trouble in making £1,000 a year profit, or a larger profit in proportion to the amount spent. I purchased saw-tables from the Oakley Quarry for £50 and other things, to about £ 100 in all, making roads, &c., about £400; workshop, £180; bunks for the men, £50; about £500 for machinery; the rest of the £3,386 was for development work. After entering into possession of the land I saw Mr. Jones, the engineer of the Oakley and Greaves Quarries, at his office, Great George Street, Westminster, and asked him to make a report on the whole property. He declined to do it because he was interested in the Oakley and Greaves Quarry, which wan next door, but said, "If you will go to Mr. Foster, our Consulting Engineer in Blaenau Fextiniog, he will make you a report, and whatever he says I will confirm." I went to Foster; he agreed to make a report for 10 guineas, but he afterwards charged £20, as he said it took him a week instead of a day, which I paid, and had the report (produced), which was handed to Mr. Fox in the winding-up. I gave copies of the report to the purchasers—the City of London Investment Corporation. I saw Gyde and Darby at the office of the Corporation, showed them several reports, told them what I had done on the property, the large area, the near railway station, the favourable terms for building under the take note, and that it was a good quarry. I afterwards went down to the quarry with the directors, and ultimately parted with my interest for 2,000 or 3,000 debentures and 1,000 shares. I was quite content to take my payment in that form, as I thought the company would be a success. I am doing my best to get it back, and have a promise that I shall have it. I wrote letter produced to Gyde and Darby in opprobrious terms, and in reply I got a solicitor's letter threatening a libel action; then I wrote and apologised. When I went before the Official Liquidator he took me for Mr. Davis of the Bread Union, and I explained I had nothing to do with that company. He then told me an awful lot of things about Gyde and

Darby. I could see I had been swindled out of my property, and so I wrote that letter.

Cross-examined. The statements I made before Mr. Fox are substantially correct. I said that "no good slate could be found when I left"—that referred to the slate lying in view. The further and deeper you get into the quarry the better slate you get. We were making good slates, but third-class quality only. This referred only to the quarry which was being worked on one half acre. I prospected over 1,000 acres altogether. The Oakley and Greaves Quarry is 1,200 ft. deep, and their slate was much better. I was working within 5 ft. f the grass. Hedley is a company wrecker—he told me the defendants had got £10,000 out of it. I never got any of it. I had my debentures. I could not have money and debentures too. I stated that the person who wrote the reports on the prospectus ought to be locked up. They are lies. I was very cross when I said those things. I do not want to go back on it. I said the reports of Graham were untrue. I adhere to that statement. I said the vein of slate was not the same as the Oakley. "These slates are good weathering slates, but you cannot split them like Oakley's." At present the quarry is not as good as the Oakley; but if you spent enough money and went deep enough you would get the same kind of slates. I said, "I have read some of Mr. Washington Davies' report, which is as untrue as the other." I adhere to that. "The prices quoted in the first prospectus are quite 50 per cent. too high"; that is right, for quarry sales, "even for first rate slates, which mine are not"; that is true. I will undertake to put a blast in and make a good many slates 24 by 16, but I have not made any of that size. [Witness's deposition before Mr. Fox was further read.] That is true as far as my recollection takes me.

Re-examined. I spent £3,000 to £4,000 on the whole property. I opened up about a dozen openings two or three miles away from this particular quarry; the estate is nearly three miles long. There are really good veins—good slate, and while the slate got from the mouth of the quarry was of third quality, by working into the tunnel you would get a much superior article. The Oakley and Greaves Quarry have spent £50,000 in reaching 1,200 ft. deep. Speaking of the property in a commercial sense, I have great hope for it, and am going to take it up.

WILLIAM HENRY FORSHAW , 14, Montague Street, West Croydon, mining engineer. I have had 18 years' practical experience in slate quarries in Wales, Devonshire, Pennsylvania and Vermont, France and Germany, and have been employed to make reports on quarries in different parts. I knew the Gorddinan Farm first in 1895, when it had been partly developed. In 1901 I was asked by Mr. F. C. Davis to develop the quarry and erect machinery. I was there off and on for 18 months. Sawing tables, driving machinery, hauling plant, rails, tracks, &c., were put down costing about £1,000; about twenty men were regularly employed, and wages paid from £50, £60, to £100 a week. Several thousands of pounds were certainly spent by Davis—I could not say the amount. Development had been done from 50 to 100 years ago, different people had improved the quarry to a certain extent and then left it because they had no money to go on with, and finally it came to F. C. Davis. It is the history of every quarry in North Wales; a dozen men lose their

money and then the last man who comes in reaps the benefit. Slates were made and sold; sales were being made during the 18 months I was in charge—I could not give the amount; the chief of the money was spent on development, driving tunnels, opening chambers, &c. The Gorddinan Farm is favourably situated as a quarry. I was there last August; extra plant and rolling stock had been provided, and fresh levels, &c., driven since I was managing. The slate in all right. I produce plans showing the present state of things. I also produce five pieces of slate which I quarried myself and which are of superior quality.

Cross-examined. I have no interest in the quarry. I have been connected with F. C. Davis for twelve years and have done business with him off and on. He gave me £750 Debentures of the Gorddinan Quarry for my work there; afterwards Davis redeemed them in respect of a debt he owed me; there was a cross account with a balance of nearly £1,000. I was defendant in an action of the Woolwich Building Society against myself and F. C. Davis for false representations. It was alleged that houses on which money had been lent were under mortgage value. Interrogatories were ordered, I failed to reply, and judgment was signed. I then obtained leave to answer them on paying £20 or £30 costs, but could not raise the money and had to let the thing go by default. They snapped judgment against me. The case then went on against F. C. Davis. He was represented by solicitor and counsel and judgment was given against him. I have been a slate merchant practically all my life. I have proper account books, a ledger, cash book, &c. I have not got them here. The solicitors who had advanced money on the buildings to Davis wanted to be repaid and got about £900 from the Building Society. Ridley was my solicitor. Tenancy agreements were put forward with regard to the houses. I did not admit to Ellis that three of them were bogus agreements. I never heard that Pinnock signed one—he is not a clerk in Ridley's office; Ridley only had an office boy. Ellis did not say to me, "You ought not to have done this; you will get into serious trouble with the Society." I did not say, "I am very sorry; do not blame me, because I have no money and have to do as I am told by other people. Davis wanted to get the business settled as well as I did and Knew perfectly well about these agreements." I did not tell Ellis I had destroyed the agreements. Ellis has just been through the Bankruptcy Court and has told all sorts of lies there.

Re-examined. I was not before Mr. Justice Lawrence at all. I asked to be recalled to-morrow, and I will bring you a document which I have at home which I think will entirely disprove that there was any fraud at all.

(Tuesday, November 3.)

MONTAGUE HIBBARD , surveyor and valuer, 90, Cannon Street. I have had 25 years' experience in my profession. I am frequently engaged by the Board of Trade as a valuer of bankrupt estates. I nave had no particular experience with regard to quarrying, but I have as to the use of slates for buildings. In June last I went to Wales with Mr. Forshaw and visited the Gorddinan Quarry. I produce some of the slates that I myself extracted. The slate at this quarry is of very good commercial

value, a good hard slate, generally free from pyrites. I saw at the quarry a quantity of machinery which I should say must have cost between £700 and £800, without haulage. A good deal of development work had evidently been done.

DAVID WASHINGTON DAVIES . I am 56 years old, and it is 40 years since I first had anything to do with slates as a practical quarryman. For 10 years I worked at Assheton Smith's, in Festiniog, the second largest slate quarry in the world; in 1877 I took the management of two small quarries on the Barmouth Estuary, and I also had a sub-contract on a quarry on my own. After five years I went to Festiniog as foreman of a chamber at the Maenofferen quarry. I was in Festiniog about eight years, and used to go about and inspect mines and make reports for which I was paid. In 1889 I went to manage a green slate quarry in Carnarvonshire and was there till 1895. Since then I have practised as a mining expert. I first made a report on the Clettwr Quarry in 1898 for a syndicate, and the syndicate sent a copy of it to Mr. Lloyd Price. In 1904 I got into communication with the City of London Investment Corporation. (Witness was taken through various passages in his report, maintaining their accuracy, and declared that if proper working capital had been applied to these quarries they must have been a commercial success.)

Cross-examined. I have been a mining expert since 1877, I think I may say a successful one. I may have made a hundred reports. I have on more than one occasion made an unfavourable report. At present I act as a mining expert and I manage for my son a hotel and a large farm; I go out surveying when anyone requires my services. I became bankrupt in 1903 and have not applied for my discharge; I did not know I had a right to it. In my bankruptcy my unsecured creditors were £143, my total assets £10.

RICHARD ROBERTS I am manager of the Moelferna Slate and Slab Quarry, and have occupied that position for thirty-one years. In January, 1902, I made a report on the Gorddinan Quarry for Mr. Andreas Roberts, who asked me to report upon it with a view to turning it into a company. That was the first time I had visited the property. I was there about a day and I made a thorough inspection. I do not desire in any way to qualify that report. At that time I had no knowledge of Gyde or Marcus. To my knowledge I have never had business relations with Gyde. I was paid for the report either £5 or live guineas. No other inducement was held out to me besides the professional fee.

Cross-examined. In the report I say, "The Festiniog slates value at about £4 per ton, and the ordinary profit is reckoned at £1 per ton." I do not see that in the printed extract from my report. I did not consent to only a portion of my report being published. I have seen a table of the prices of slates which is published in the prospectus. I think the selling price of £17 0s. 6d. per ton would give an exorbitant profit, which could not be realised. In my view £1 per ton is a proper profit that could be made from Festiniog slates, but there are no two quarries exactly alike. The statement would be true ordinarily, but this year slates are down 40 percent. It was as correct as I could arrive at it at that time, but no two quarries will produce the same proportion of manufactured slates. I say

It is quite possible that the Welsh Slate Company's property might be Capable of producing a profit 300 percent. greater than the average profit yielded by slate quarries. Some slate quarries pay enormous profits, 56 per cent.

Re-examined. I recommended the vigorous working of the quarry, as in my opinion the undertaking was no longer a speculation. I have in all had 38 years' experience of slate quarries.

JOHN S. FOSTER , M. I. M. E. I have had 25 years' experience of quarries. Mr. Jones, of the Oakley Quarries, recommended me for the purpose of preparing a report which is dated January 9, 1903, and contains this sentence: "I am of opinion that if properly opened under intelligent management the quarry would prove highly remunerative, and I have no hesitation in recommending it as a good investment for capital." It is still my opinion that it might be a success if given a chance. Unfortunately at present we are experiencing very bad markets in the slate trade, and this would be a very bad time to open it. I received a fee of twenty guineas for the report. I am not clear how many visits I paid to the property, one or two, perhaps even three. I got the ordinary fees and I have no interest in it except that.

Cross-examined. I was employed by Mr. F. C. Davis to make the report. I had to sue Mr. Davis for the fee and recovered it in that way. I did not discover any slate upon the quarry except a slate resembling the north vein of the Oakley Quarry. That is the most inferior slate produced at that quarry. Speaking technically they make "seconds" of it. I cannot tell what price the seconds would fetch in the end of 1904-5 period as I am not concerned in the commercial side of quarrying.

Re-examined. As regards the suggested inferior quality of the slate, what I wrote at the time was this: "The north vein has been proved by a cutting on the hill side and the section thus exposed is characteristic of the best veins in the neighbourhood, the rock being unusually well developed and promising." I do not think that refers to the north vein. It refers to the more northern of the two veins which traverse this property. There are two veins. The cutting showed a very good section. I also say in the report: "The other vein is of a slightly greenish grey colour of a striking Shade, and if quarried and put on the market would command a very high price for roofing purposes."

JOHN WILLIAMS . I have been quarries inspector to Lord Ancaster for nine years and have had experience of slate quarries all my life. I made a report on the Gorddinan property in which I said that the resources of this extensive property were the richest of any property in North Wales. That was my honest opinion then and is now. I made the report in the first instance for my own purposes as I had an option on the property, and afterwards adapted the report for Mr. Andreas Roberts, who paid me ten guineas for it.

Cross-examined. I saw the portion of the report which was published in the newspapers. In my opinion it was not a fair representation of my report, but only a garbled sentence.

Re-examined. In that report I say, "If four weeks are allowed for Sundays, holidays, &c., for one year of 48 weeks only the profits would equal £5,400 upon an outlay of £7,750." That was my view. I also

said, "From this £2,000 should be set aside for extensions and operations which would double the output and profits as the work advances, until the works are equal to the best in the Principality. I think there is unquestionably slate of commercial value there with proper management."

Sir JOHN CAMPBELL, Bart., C. B., Major-General. I was engaged in the Crimean war, Chinese war, Afghan war, and other campaigns. Since my retirement from the army I have been connected with several public companies, one of which was compulsorily wound up, the London Universal Banking Company. I was a director of the Kruger Syndicate, which was voluntarily wound up. I was, therefore, not a novice when I met Mr. Gyde. Before the formation of these two slate companies

thing. As to the necessary cash being forthcoming to support the amalgamation, Mr. Gyde said he was in a position to supply a considerable amount. I do not know whether an exact sum was specified. I bestirred myself to get orders for slates and was successful in procuring some orders. I recollect that on the occasions when the meetings were held at the quarries I travelled down into Wales in a saloon carriage with my codirectors and the secretary. I wrote out my speech before we went down, and submitted a draft of it to the directors. I either showed it or read it to the other directors in the train, and some slight but no important alterations were made, and I delivered it very much in the shape in which I had originally drafted it.

Cross-examined. I have no idea how Mr. Gyde came to hear of my existence, but I was a pretty well known man and he may have heard of me from different people. I was on the board of the London and Universal Bank, Limited. I joined the board in 1889. The promoter and managing director of the company was A. S. Cochrane. I had 250 shares, which Cochrane gave me. I made speeches at several of the annual meetings, the effect of which was to extol the company as a sound financial concern. Those speeches I think were prepared by a Mr. Edwin, who was employed by Mr. Cochrane. Edouin was a literary man. That company was compulsorily wound up. I never heard that charges of fraud were made by the Official Receiver. I passed my public examination. I have never heard that directors are only publicly examined where fraud is alleged in reference to company matters. I have never heard of an action being brought by Mr. Thomas Rendall, a journeyman bookmaker, claiming damages against Cochrane for fraud and misrepresentation. I do not think I saw Mr. Cully, the Official Receiver, in the course of the winding up. I certainly did not tell Mr. Cully that I fot my living by allowing myself to be put on boards of directors for the use of my name. I did not promise Mr. Cully that if no proceedings were taken against me for misfeasance I would not allow my name to be put on the board of a public company again. My solicitor spoke to me on the subject and said that if I was asked to go on any other board I should get his opinion as to whether it was a right thing to do or not. I did not take his opinion in connection with these two slate quarries. Perhaps I may be allowed to remark that all this happened twelve years ago. The London and Universal Bank was not a swindle, and I did not hear the Lord Chief Justice denounce it as such. I joined the board of the Edison Photographic Toy and Automaton Company, Limited, which never went to allotment; in fact, I stopped that myself, as I would not go to allotment on so small a sum. In 1891 I joined the board of the New Mashonaland Exploration Company, Limited, which was wound up. I think I had shares in that company which were given to me. You may take it generally that in none of the companies that I have been director of have I paid for my shares. In 1891 I became chairman of the company called the Pioneer of Mashonaland Syndicate, Limited; that was also wound up. I did not in 1893 become a director of the West Virginia Freehold Land Development Railway and Mining Company, Limtied. I do not recollect it at all. I did not in the same year become a director of the Investment Guarantee Corporation, Limited. I remember hearing of

it some years ago. I think that was the name, but there were so many different names; anyhow I did not become a director of it. I remember a man called Edgar Gray. He was an American. I last saw him in a house somewhere up in St. John's Wood about five years ago. I think he is probably dead, because he was very ill then. His business was that of a company promoter, and I was connected, I think, with two of his companies. I heard that he had been convicted of forgery in America; I spoke to him on the subject and he denied it. I know that he commenced an action for libel against some newspaper that had made the statement and that he discontinued the action, that the defence succeeded after justification had been pleaded. The National Investment and Guarantee Corporation, Limited, was promoted by Edgar Gray. I do not recollect whether Mr. Bagot Hart was the solicitor to that company, but he was the solicitor to the Slate Quarry Companies. I do not think I held any shares in the National Investment and Gurantee Corporation. I was not in 1894 chairman of Quisthorp Hanckelman and Co. and did not attend any meetings of that company. I will not swear that I had nothing to do with the company if the Official Receiver has got it down in block and white that I had, but I can swear that I do not remember it. In the same year, 1894, I became a director of the West Australian Minerals and Finance Company. I am not sure whether that company was wound up or not. I ceased to have any connection with it. I know the promoter died years ago. I got very little fees out of these companies; in fact I may say that most of them have not paid me at all. I did not in 1895 become a director of the Livingstone African Exploration Company, Limited. Possibly the man who was convicted of felony, Edgar Gray, may have put my name down in connection with that company without my knowing it. If Mr. Fox says that I personally attended at the department of the Official Receiver and saw him in connection with it, I suppose he ought to know, but I do not recollect having had anything to do with any company called Livingstone. In 1895 I was a director of the Lake Montefiori United Goldfields, Limited. I do not know what became of that company, but I take it that it was wound up also. In the same year I became a director of the Kruger Syndicate, which I think was wound up voluntarily. I took no part in the promotion of that company and do not recollect that I was publicly examined in connection with it. I cannot understand for what reason Mr. Gyde should have sought me out to be a director of these two slate quarry companies, except, perhaps, that he had a high opinion of my qualities.

Re-examined. So far as I know Mr. Gyde had no knowledge of my being connected with any of these previous companies. I think I told him I had some experience of companies. With the exception of these two companies I have never been associated to my knowledge with any company of which the directors, or any person connected with the companies, have been prosecuted.

FREDERICK BRIDGER , 40, Water Lane, Brixton, journalist. In 1904 I was asked to be a director of the North Wales Quarry Company by Mr. Gyde, whom I had known for about 40 years. I consented and inspected

the property in company with my fellow directors. I also read the reports of the experts and was satisfied that this was a genuine property. I attended the board meetings from time to time, and from the moment I became director until the companies were wound up no influence was brought to bear upon me to do anything improper. The board meetings were held with perfect proprietry and regularity. I was present on the occasion when the debentures were drawn and was not conscious of anything improper in the drawing of the debentures.

Cross-examined. I am not related to Gyde. I have been connected with companies in the promotion of which he has had a share. I was a director of the Civil Service Brewery about 1895, and of the Parkfield Colliery Company, both of which have been wound up, and, of course, of the North Wales and the Welsh Slate. I was also a director of the United Share and Debenture Company, Limited. I think that was promoted by Mr. Harrison Ainsworth. I do not think I was a director of the Railway Municipal Company, Limited, and I do not know who promoted it. At the time of the promotion of the United Share and Debenture Company, I think I was in the office of the "Investor" Company, which was also a promotion of Mr. Ainsworth. The "Investor" was a newspaper and wrote "puffs" or favourable notices about the other companies. I was editor. I think that was 16 or 18 years ago. I may be said to be of a speculative turn of mind and fond of gambling. I have been bound over for frequenting gaming houses, on March 18th, 1898; in the sum of £20 for six months at the Mansion House, and on May 20, 1898, at the Guildhall in the sum of £100 for six months. I know a man named Thomas Tarrant who was convicted at this court for fraudulent bucket-shop swindles. He did not carry on business in the name of Arbuthnot, but I did. I do not think he was ever in my office at 16, Masons Avenue in 1897. He did not carry on business there with me. I know the business of Charles and Co. Charles was Frederick Spiegel; he was an outside broker. Tarrant had nothing to do with Charles. I carried on business in the name of Thomas J. Willans at Portland House, Basinghall Street. Tarrant did not assist me in that business. He may have lent me money; I am not quite sure. I do not recollect that I was ejected at the end of 1905 and my goods seized for rent. To the best of my belief I have never had a distress in my office for rent. It is not a thing I should be likely to forget. I have been carrying on business as an outside stockbroker for about ten years on and off. I have used perhaps three or four different names—Arbuthnot, Royston, and Willans. I did not carry on business as Charles; I was only his clerk. These were all at different addresses, and I paid rent at all of them. I paid rent as long as I could.

HERBERT SIMKINS , cashier and book-keeper in the employ of Messrs. Hayman, Christy, and Lilly, printers, 133, Farringdon Road. In the year 1904 my firm, on the instructions of the City of London Investment Corporation, printed 152,000 prospectuses of the North Wales Slate Quarry at a cost of £161 6s., and 20,000 further prospectuses at a cost of £42 10s. Some stationery was supplied amounting to £1 10s. 6d., making a total of £305 6s. 6d. That sum was paid to my firm by the City of London Investment Corporation, and the firm's account with the company is quite straight.

In cross-examination witness, being asked whether the circular letter issued by MacAndrew, Robinson, and Co., was printed in imitation of typing, or was typed on the typing machine, expressed the opinion that the document was printed.

FREDERICK EDGAR JUDD , manufacturing stationer. In 1904 I was carrying on business in Southwark Street as Edward Judd and Co. On July 4 in that year I received a letter from the City of London Investment Corporation, Ltd., directing the printing of 150,000 prospectuses of the North Wales Slate Quarries. I did the printing at a cost of £495 10s. On October 31, 1904, I received a further order for 20,000 prospectuses of the same company costing £65 13s. 4d. On November 11 I received a further order for 150,000 prospectuses of the name company costing £455 6s. I had a further order in December and the total was something over £1,000. I was merely the printer and did not know anything about the company and cannot say whether the object of issuing the prospectuses was to get shares or debentures subscribed for. On April 7, 1905, I received an order from the Welsh Slate Quarries, Ltd., for 30,000 prospectuses, which was executed at a cost of £92 10s. On May 16, 1905, I received a further order from the North Wales Slate Quarries for 65,000 prospectuses, which was executed at a cost of £200 8s. 4d., making the total amount for printing prospectuses of the North Wales £ 1,309 2s. 8d. for a total of 415,000 prospectuses. On January 16, 1905, I received an order from the City of London Investment Corporation for 200,000 prospectuses of the Welsh Slate Quarries, costing about £400, and in February of the same year I executed an order for 125,000 more, costing £385 8s. 4d. On March 28 I received an order for a similar amount, and on June 19 an order for 100,000 more, and a further order in July. The total cost was £1,387 10s., of which part was paid by the London Investment Corporation and part by the Welsh Slate Quarries, Ltd.

Cross-examined. I cannot say whether I printed the Festiniog prospectus. It is possible that my name appears on it as a signatory. It isnot part of the duty of a printer to provide signatories, but if I was asked for a signature I might very likely say, "Very likely I can obtain you a signature." It is very likely that the name of my clerk, James, appears as a signatory. I think I printed one prospectus for the Festiniog Company, but eventually we did not come to terms and I let the printing alone. The order in that case came through a man named Easton, but Harrison Ainsworth was understood to be standing behind. I never noticed that the prospectuses of the Festiniog and the two Welsh Slate companies were in almost precisely the same language. I do not read everything that is given me to print. The individuals who gave me orders for printing the Welsh Slate prospectuses would, in the first instance, be Mr. Gyde and Mr. Darby. Mr. Gyde did not tell me that a prospectus with my name upon it as signatory formed the greater part of the document he was going to ask me to print. I have been printing for Mr. Gyde since 1904; not before that so far as I can recollect. I cannot tell at this date what form the copy was in—whether print, MS., or altered print. [Witness being shown the MacAndrew, Robinson circular (Ex. 45) expressed the opinion that it was printed.]

JAMES WILLIAM BRYAN , secretary to the London Share and Debenture Register Company, Limited. On July 4, 1904, my firm sent out 150,000 North Wales Slate Quarry prospectuses for the City of London Investment Corporation, which cost £495 10s. On October 31, 1904, we sent out 20,000 of the same prospectuses at a cost of £65 13s. 4d. On November 11, 1904, we sent out another 150,000 at a cost of £455. The total cost of sending out the prospectuses was £1,016 3s. 4d. On April 7, 1905, we were instructed by the Welsh Slate Quarry Company to send out 30,000 North Wales Slate Quarry Company prospectuses, which we did at a cost of £92 10s. On May 16, 1905, on the instructions of the North Wales Slate Quarry, we sent out 65,000 prospectuses at a cost of £200 8s. 4d. The total cost of sending out prospectuses of the North Wales Slate Quarry was £1,309 1s. 8d. On January 16, 1905, on the instructions of the City of London Investment Corporation, my company sent out 200,000 prospectuses of the Welsh Slate Quarries at an expense of £616 13s. 4d. On February 13, 1905, upon the instructions of the Welsh Slate Quarries Company, we sent out 125,000 prospectuses of that company at a cost of £385 8s. 4d., and on March 21 the same quantity at the same expense. The total cost of sending out the prospectuses of the Welsh Slate Quarries was £2,004 3s. 4d.

Cross-examined. Various amounts were paid to us by the City of London Investment Corporation, the Welsh Slate Quarries, and the North Wales Slate Company. We have collated lists of investors' addresses to whom circulars are to be sent. They are classified under separate headings as follows: Investors' and founders' shares, preference shares, debentures and bonds, banks, foreign railways, home railways, cycles, motor cars, tramways and omnibuses, lighting, water, investment, finance, finance and discount.✗ insurance, telegraphs and telephones, docks, canals, and shipping, iron, coal, and steel, mining companies, general industrial companies, and hotels, breweries, and distilleries. We usually send prospectuses to inventors in somewhat kindred companies. Sometimes we receive lists of addresses to which prospectuses are to be sent, but more generally it is left to our discretion.

(Wednesday, November 4.)

At the conclusion of his Lordship's summing-up, at 2.45, the jury retired; they returned into Court at 4.24.

Mr. Justice Bigham (to the foreman). I understand that you cannot agree?

The Foreman. That is so, my Lord.

Mr. Justice Bigham. I do not ask and I do not want to know in what way you are divided, but if it be the fact, for instance, that one of your body and only one takes a view different from that of his fellow jurymen, I wish to say that he ought to try his best honestly to see whether he can submit his judgment to the judgment of the other men who are sitting in that box. It is difficult to conceive any real difference of opinion existing of the kind that I suggest may exist. Now, will you go back and consider what I have said.

The jury again retired, and returned at 4.56.

Mr. Justice Bigham (to the Foreman). I understand that you desire to know whether it is possible, in a case of this kind, for a verdict of 11 of your body to be accepted. In a civil case such a thing could be done, but only by consent. In a criminal case it cannot be done at all; there must be a unanimous verdict of the whole. But I gather that there is only one of your body differing from the others and I should like to know whether that gentleman feels disposed to tell me what his difficulties are in the case, so that I may, if possible, assist him.

(There was no response.)

Mr. Justice Bigham. I am waiting.

(After a pause.) A juryman. No, my Lord.

Mr. Justice Bigham. You are not disposed to tell me what your difficulties are?

The Juryman. No, my Lord.

Mr. Justice Bigham. That is enough. Then I understand, Mr. Foreman, that you have done your best to agree and that you are not likely to agree?

The Foreman. I am ashamed to say that that is so, my Lord.

Mr. Justice Bigham. I am not astonished to hear you make that statement. Then you will now be discharged. I am not going to keep you any longer for what I believe to be no good purpose.

Mr. George Elliott. I do not know what arrangements will now be made in regard to bail. From the very first these men have been admitted to bail, and have always surrendered.

Mr. Justice Bigham. I shall not allow bail for these two men at present. I will consider the matter. The circumstances are so singular that I do not think I should be justified in letting them go at large. I do not say that finally I shall not do so, but certainly not at present.

Mr. Elliott. You will give us liberty to apply to your Lordship again?

Mr. Justice Bigham. Certainly.



(Tuesday, October 20.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-69
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceMiscellaneous > sureties

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SIMPSON, Douglas (18, sugar boiler) , pleaded guilty of having in his possession counterfeit coin with intent to utter the same; feloniously having in his possession two moulds in and upon which were made and impressed the figure and stamp of both of the sides of pieces of the King current silver coins called sixpences and shillings.

Prisoner stated that he was only shown how to make coins about a fortnight ago and did not think the offence was so serious. Mr. Webster, of the Mint, stated that the coins were of very inferior make and evidently the work of a tyro. Prisoner's father, a manufacturing confectioner, of Walthamstow, expressed his willingness to enter into recognisances for the future good behaviour of his son, and the Common Serjeant released prisoner on the recognisances of his father and himself, each in the sum of £20 each to come up for judgment if called upon.


(Wednesday, October 21.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-70
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded part guilty

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WATSON, Percival Guy (49, traveller) , indicted for (1) attempting to obtain by false pretences the sum of £10, the property of Charles Winford Allington, with intent to defraud; (2) forging and uttering a banker's draft for the payment of £10, with intent to defraud, pleaded to the first indictment guilty, to the second not guilty; the latter was not proceeded with.

Three previous convictions were proved.

Sentence, 12 months' imprisonment.


(Wednesday, October 21.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-71
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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BURRELL, Henry (28, stoker) ; feloniously causing certain grievous bodily harm to William Bailey, with intent to disable him.

Mr. Leycester prosecuted.

Police-constable JOHN DEAN, 368 K. On the night of October 1 I was on duty at Over the Gates, Barking, in company with Constable Holmes. At a quarter-past eight I saw prisoner in the street. He was very drunk, standing on a doorway, throwing his arms about, shouting, and causing people to get off the footpath into the road-way. I said to him, "Well, Burrell, why don't you be quiet and go home?" He walked a few yards and then said, "Now, you f—g bastards, if you want trouble I will give it you," and made an indecent noise with his mouth. He started to run away. After a few yards he fell to the ground and I took him into custody. He then commenced to be very violent and Holmes and I caught hold of him. We took him towards the police station. In Heath Street he said, "I am not going any further," threw up his legs and fell to the ground. William Bailey, another officer, came to our assistance; prisoner wrenched his right arm free, collared Police-constable Bailey round the neck, and threw him to the ground. Prisoner then kicked Bailey on the side of the head whilst he was getting up. A hostile crowd collected, and we were obliged to take prisoner into an alley way. The crowd numbered 300 or 400 and threw bottles, bricks, and stones at us. Bailey went for assistance. An ambulance was brought, we strapped prisoner on to it, and took him to the

station. He had a cut over his eye, caused either by a bottle or a brick thrown by the crowd and meant for the police.

Police-constable WILLIAM HOLMES, 698 K, giving corroborative evidence, said prisoner was very violent and disorderly, very drunk, waving his arms about, and causing everybody to get off the footway into the roadway. In Heath Street prisoner caught hold of Bailey by the throat, threw him down, and deliberately kicked him in the left side of the head. There was a hostile crowd of about 500 people throwing bricks, stones, and bottles. Prisoner struck witness in the mouth with his fist but did not do him any harm. Witness also described how prisoner was taken to the station on an ambulance.

Police-constable WILLIAM BAILEY, 406 K. On October 1 I saw prisoner in custody of Dean and Holmes in Heath Street, Barking. He was behaving in a very violent manner, struggling with the two constables. I went to their assistance. He got his right arm free from Constable Dean, caught me by the neck, threw me violently to the ground, and then kicked me on the left side of the head. The skin was broken and the injury bled very freely. I felt very dazed about the head and eyes. I went to the station and fetched the ambulance, upon which prisoner was taken to the station. I saw the doctor that night and he put me on the sick list. I was unable to attend the police court next day and have not yet returned to duty. I was in bed a week with pains in the side of the head. I was in all thrown down three times after that and kicked in the ribs and head and in the scrotum.

CHARLES FRANCIS FENTON , divisional surgeon. On the evening of October 1 I was called to Barking Police Station, where I saw Bailey. There was a small star-shaped laceration on the left side of his head in the temporal region; it was bleeding freely, and underneath that was a rather large contusion about the size of the palm of my hand, somewhat swollen, and he was in a very nervous and dazed state. He was no doubt suffering from concussion. I sent him home and had him put to bed, and he remained there for the greater part of the week. As to his present condition, of course, the wound has healed up but there still remains a great deal of thickening on the bone, showing that the blow was a violent one, whatever it was caused by. I do not expect any permanent injury. I shall very likely be able to return him as fit for duty in a week or two, but these injuries, as is well known, sometimes incapacitate a man for a long period. The nature of the injury is quite consistent with the evidence as to the way in which it was caused. I also attended to the cut over prisoner's eye, which was such as might have been caused by a broken brick or bottle, or anything of that kind being thrown at him. It was not serious at all.

To the Court. Prisoner was very drunk—in fact, he went to sleep while I was attending to his cut.

Verdict, Guilty of wounding with felonious intent.

Police-constable RICHARD TAYLOR, 107 K, proved a number of previous convictions for larceny, assaults, drunkenness, and wilful damage and stated that prisoner was a scurfer at the Beckton Gas

Works. He had known prisoner close upon six years, and when he was sober there was not a quieter man in Barking. He had assisted the police on two occasions and had also been given the Royal Humane Society certificate for saving life at Yarmouth, but when drunk he was a most dangerous man both to the public and to the police.

Sentence, Fifteen months' hard labour.


(Thursday, October 22.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-72
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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CHATFIELD, Ernest Bailey (26, labourer) ; shooting at Mabel Elizabeth Smith with a revolver loaded with powder and leaden shot, with intent to kill and murder her.

Prisoner pleaded guilty of shooting with intent to do grievous bodily harm.

Prosecutrix was a girl who had kept company with prisoner, and had subsequently thrown him over. In the box she stated that she was afraid of him but that he had not threatened her.

His Lordship was of opinion that prosecutrix had treated prisoner badly.

Sentence, Six months' hard labour.


(Tuesday, October 27.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-73
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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OWEN, Oswald (25, shoemaker) ; robbery with violence upon Francis Arden, and stealing from him one watch and chain and 3s. 4 1/2 d. in money, his goods and moneys.

Mr. A. C. Fox Davies prosecuted; Mr. H. D. Roome defended.

FRANCIS ARDEN , 71. Neason Grove, West Ham, barman. At 12.30 a.m. on Sunday, September 27, I was in Plaistow Road. I had been to where my sister is a barmaid at Westway Road, Millwall, and finished up by calling on a friend in Barking Road, Plaistow. I was going home over Plaistow Bridge when I saw four men standing on the kerb', one of whom I recognised as the prisoner, whom I knew by sight, having known him five years ago and again seeing him a week previously. I knew his face. Prisoner came out from the other three, tripped me up, struck me a very violent blow in the left eye, knocking me to the ground, and hit me again as I fell. He said, in a stuttering voice, "Take that." On the ground I was again kicked by prisoner. When I got up I found my right trouser pocket turned

inside out and that I had lost 3s. 4 1/2 d. in money, a brass chain, and a gun metal watch of little value. The men were gone. I at once complained at the police station, was seen by the doctor, and went home. It was then one a.m. On the following Tuesday I identified prisoner from nine or 12 other men without any hesitation or trouble whatever. I am sure he is the man.

Cross-examined. I had only had two glasses of ale all night and was sober. There was nothing particular which drew my attention to the four men—I did not take any notice of them at all. Prisoner is not a friend of mine. The assault all happened in about two minutes. There was no one in sight when I got up. I said at the police court, "I saw the prisoner running away from me down Maud Road "—I saw the back of one of the men, but I would not be sure it was the prisoner. Nothing will alter my belief that it was the prisoner who attacked me. When I went to the police station I gave the name and description of the prisoner, said that I should know the man again, that he wore a shabby coat, a white muffler and had a dark moustache. I spotted him in a minute. I do not think the man would have done it if he had known who I was. I have spoken to him several times five years ago in Malta. I do not think he recognised me.

Dr. A. CREGONO, 43, Romford Road. Stratford, assistant divisional surgeon. I was called to see prosecutor between one and two a.m. on September 27. He had a lacerated wound across the right eyebrow, not a clear cut wound, and had another blow on the left eye. I asked him if he was hurt anywhere else; he said, "No." The injuries he receives are consistent with his evidence. He was sober.

Police-constable ERNEST BROADLEY. 148 K. On September 29, at 10.30 a.m., I saw prisoner and said, "I shall arrest you on suspicion of highway robbery with violence." He said, "I do not know anything about it; there must have been a mistake made."

Cross-examined. He appeared very much surprised.

Detective-sergeant FREDERICK CLEVELAND, stationed at West Ham. On September 29 I saw prisoner at West Ham Police Station, and said, "You will be put up for identification, as you are suspected of assaulting a man and stealing his watch and money in the Plaistow Road between 12 and one a.m. on Sunday." He said, "All right." He was then identified by prosecutor without hesitation from among nine other men. (To the Judge.) When charged before the magistrate he pointed to the prosecutor and said, "I have known him seven or eight years."


OSWALD OWEN (prisoner, on oath). I live at 65, Brookes Road, Stratford Road, Plaistow. On September 29 a police constable arrested me in Plaistow Road for robbing a man three days before. I denied it. On Saturday, September 26, between 9.30 and 10 p.m., I went to West Ham with my wife, bought some leather to sole her boots with, and some bananas for the boy, and returned home a little I had several interviews with Mr. Gyde. I had in the first instance a letter from him saying he wished to see me, and after interviews in which I went into the matter I agreed to join the board. I arranged to go down and view the property. I had no practical knowledge of slates. I saw a number of favourable reports upon the property. I was present at the board meetings when the prospectuses were presented for consideration. There may have been alterations in the wording, but I do not think there was any material alteration of the drafts. No pressure was put upon myself or other members of the Board to induce us to pass the prospectuses. As chairman I got £100 a year from each company. There was no occasion for me to subscribe for or pay up shares according to the articles of association. I only signed. There was no qualification. At the board meetings I was usually in the chair, and Mr. Bridges, Mr. Lawrie, and Mr. Dodson were present. I had confidence in those gentlemen. Gyde was mostly present. Neither Gyde nor Darby attemped to influence me unduly. I do not know of any document in the history of either of these companies which was not submitted to me and my co-directors. I have not discovered anything material that was not disclosed to me by Gyde and Darby. So far as my experience of companies has gone there was nothing irregular in any meetings of these companies. The ordinary course of business at the board meetings would be that I should take the chair. Directors were present and the secretary read out the minutes of the last meeting which were signed. Then we discussed anything that was on the agenda to be brought before the meeting. Mr. Lawrie had expert knowledge of slates. It is a long time ago but I recollect the occasion of the drawing of the debentures. Gyde took no part in the drawing. I think Mr. Reynolds took the hat at the time the actual drawing took place. It was held with the crown downwards, and Reynolds put his hand in and took out the tickets. Possibly the hat might have been on the table. My recollection is that the hat was held in such a way that whoever held it could see inside it. I have not the slightest doubt as to the complete fairness of the drawing. I do not think anything was said afterwards as to anyone being able to look at the papers if they wanted. I had no doubt when I read the reports that the quarries, with proper capital, would be a commercial success. I recollect that a proposal was made to raise further capital for the amalgamation of the two companies. I was in favour of that, and I still think it would have been a very good

after 11.30. While out I saw our lodger, Rose Downs, with her young man, Mire Hedges; we also saw in a fried fish shop my Landlord, Brenchley, and his wife. Returning home we had supper and went to bed at about 12 p.m. My wife asked me to get a banana for the boy, which I did in my shirt. As I was getting into bed I lifted the window and asked Rose Downs, who was outside with her sweetheart to hurry up and come in as we wanted to go to sleep. I then returned to bed, went to sleep, and did not get up till the morning.

Cross-examined. I believe my wife let Rose Downs in after I was asleep. My house is about five minutes' walk from Plaistow railway bridge. I passed over that bridge coming home at 11.30 p.m.

KATE OWEN , wife of prisoner. On Saturday, September 26, I came home from work at seven p.m., had my tea, stopped in till 9.30, when I went out with my husband to Weat Ham; we met Rose Downs with her sweetheart at 10.15; bought some fried fish at a shop where we saw our landlord and his wife, also bought some bananas, got home together at 11.15, had supper and went to bed at 12. I asked my husband to get a banana for the boy, which he did; as he returned to bed he spoke to Downs, who was outside with her young man. He then got into bed. I went down and opened the door for Rose Downs at one a.m. Prisoner did not go out again till 10.30 the next morning.

Cross-examined. When prisoner was arrested I remembered what we had done on the Saturday. We passed over the railway bridge at five minutes to 11.

STEPHEN BRENCHLEY . I occupy the house where prisoner lives. On September 26 I returned from a football match at 6.15 p.m., went out shopping with my wife at 9.15; I saw prisoner and his wife outside the "Lord Nelson" at 11.10, got home at 11.30, and found prisoner and his wife had then got home. Prisoner did not go out again that night. I sleep in the front room downstairs and should have heard him open the door.

Cross-examined. I heard prisoner's wife open the door for Rose Downs. The passage is uncarpeted, and I should hear anyone.

AMELIA BRENCHELY , wife of the last witness, corroborated his evidence.

Cross-examined. I did not hear Rose Downs come in. I slept in the front room downstairs with the last witness.

ROSE DOWNS , match maker. I live at the same house as the prisoner. On September 26 I was out with my sweetheart, Mire Hedges, when I saw prisoner in Market Street, West Ham, at 10.15 p.m. I went for a walk and returned with my sweetheart to the house at about 12. A few minutes afterwards prisoner lifted up the window and said, "How long are you going to be?" I said, "Not long." He said, "I am off to bed." About 10 minutes afterwards his wife let me in.

MIRE HEDGES , 64, Boleyn Road, Forest Gate, carman. The last witness is my sweetheart. On September 26 I saw prisoner and his wife in West Ham at 10.15 p.m. At nearly 12.30 I was standing

outside his door with Downs when prisoner spoke to her from the window. She went in at about one a.m.

Verdict, Not guilty.



(Monday, October 26.)

20th October 1908
Reference Numbert19081020-74
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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SMITH, Henry (36, carman) , pleaded guilty of being found by sight✗ having in his possession, without lawful excuse, certain implements of housebreaking, to wit, one jemmy and one knife.

Prisoner was seen by Inspector Badcock and Sergeant Gilham on the night of September 9, in Plough Lane, going in the direction of Wandsworth, looking intently at the houses on the right-hand side. Thinking his movements suspicious they questioned him, and finding his answers unsatisfactory, searched him, and found upon him a knife, and a jemmy was produced from the inside of his trousers leg, suspended from his brace button by a piece of string. There are 14 summary convictions for various offences.

Sentence, 18 months' hard labour.

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