Old Bailey Proceedings.
14th September 1885
Reference Number: t18850914

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Old Bailey Proceedings front matter.
14th September 1885
Reference Numberf18850914

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Sessions Paper.







Short-hand Writers to the Court,








Law Booksellers and Publishers.



On the Queen's Commission of



The City of London,





Held on Monday, September 14th, 1885, and following days.

BEFORE the RIGHT HON. ROBERT NICHOLAS FOWLER, M.P., LORD MAYOR of the City of London; the Hon. Sir HENRY HAWKINS , Knt., one of the Justices of Her Majesty's High Court of Justice; Sir THOMAS DAKIN , Knt., Sir THOMAS SCAMBLER OWDEN , Knt., Sir JOHN WHITTAKER ELLIS , Bart., M.P., and Sir HENRY EDMUND KNIGHT , Knt., Aldermen of the said City; Sir THOMAS CHAMBERS , Knt., Q.C., M.P., Recorder of the said City; POLYDORE DE KEYSER , Esq., and EDWARD JAMES GRAY , Esq., other of the Aldermen of the said City; Sir WILLIAM THOMAS CHARLEY , Knt., Q.C., D.C.L., Common Serjeant of the said City; and ROBERT MALCOLM KERR , Esq., LL.D., Judge of the Sheriffs' Court: Her Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer, and General Gaol Delivery, holden for the said City, and Judges of the Central Criminal Court.

JAMES WHITEHEAD , Esq., Alderman,









A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—a dagger (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoner's age.


NEW COURT.—Monday, September 14th, 1885.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-798
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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798. HENRY BROWN (48) PLEADED GUILTY to unlawfully having counterfeit coin in his possession, with intent to utter it.— Twelve Months' Hard Labour.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-799
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentencesImprisonment > penal servitude

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799. CHARLES WILLIAM HAM (26) to stealing while employed in the Post-office a post-letter containing three orders for money of Her Majesty's Postmaster-General, with intent to defraud, also to feloniously forging and uttering receipts for 20s. and 5s., with intent to defraud.— Five Year's Penal Servitude. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-800
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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800. DANIEL VAUGHAN DAVIS (26) to stealing while employed in the Post-office a post-letter containing, 121 penny stamps, also a letter containing 62 penny stamps, the property of Her Majesty's Postmaster-General.— Five Years' Penal Servitude. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-801
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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801. WILLIAM ROGERS ** (72) to feloniously uttering counterfeit coin, having been before convicted of a like felonious uttering in October, 1881.— Five Years' Penal Servitude. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] And

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-802
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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802. ALBERT CLARK to unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.— Two Days' Imprisonment. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-803
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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803. ALEXANDER KELLY (34), Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.


ELIZA DUNLOP . I am barmaid at the Paris and Europe Hotel, Leicester Square—on August 14th, about 7 p.m., I served the prisoner with a glass of sherry, price 6d.; he gave me a sovereign, I gave him change in silver—I showed the sovereign to Miss Ellison, and saw her try it—it was placed on a shelf at the back of the bar, and it remained there till 12.30—I believe this (produced) to be it—on 18th August, about 6 p.m., I served the prisoner again with a glass of sherry—I knew by the weight it was bad, and gave it to Miss Ellison, who broke it in two with her

teeth—this is one of the pieces (produced)—the prisoner was given in custody.

ELIZABETH ELLISON . I am a barmaid at this house—on 14th August the prisoner came in for a glass of sherry—I did not see what he put down—after he left Miss Dunlop handed me what appeared to be a sovereign—I sounded it on the counter and tried it with my teeth—here are the marks of my teeth on it—it was put on a shelf at the back—on the 18th the prisoner came again, and Miss Dunlop handed me a sovereign; I bit it in two, and said "I shall detain you, as this is a bad sovereign"—he said that he would wait, and Mr. Barnes, the proprietor, came down in about five minutes, and gave him in charge.

ALFRED PHILLIPS (Policeman C 140). Mr. Barnes gave the prisoner into my charge with this broken sovereign—I said "You will have to come with me to the station"—he said "All right"—I received this other one from Mr. Barnes at the station.

MAXIME JOUGGLA (Interpreted). I am manager of the Paris and Europe Hotel—on 14th August Miss Dunlop brought me the day's takings in a bag—I found in it a coin apparently gold with teeth marks on it, and after the money was mixed with that in another bag I found another coin—on August 18th I was not present when the coin was broken, but I gave it to Mr. Barnes.

PAUL BARNES . I am proprietor of the Paris and Europe Hotel—on August 18th Miss Dunlop gave me two broken pieces of a sovereign—this is one of them (produced)—I gave them to the constable, and gave the prisoner in custody—I then went to the office, and got two coins which I had received from Mr. Jouggla on the 14th, took them to the station, and gave them to the inspector.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You were willing to pay for the drink—you said "I have no address."

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . I am Inspector of Coin to Her Majesty's Mint—these three coins are from the same mould; they are made of the metal which pewter pots are made of, and gilt in a battery—they are only half the weight of a sovereign.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I am innocent of the charge brought against me."

Prisoner's Defence. I deny being there on August 14th. I tendered a sovereign on the 18th, but I did not know it was bad. I received it at a race where I backed a horse.

GUILTY .— Eighteen Months' Hard Labour.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-804
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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804. KATE STEWART (19), Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.


EMILY TUBB . I am saleswoman to Henry Hamley, who keeps a toy and fancy shop at 230, High Holborn—on 22nd August the prisoner, who I know as a customer, came and bought a water bottle and glass, which came to 6 1/2 d., and paid with a half-crown—immediately she had gone I found it was bad, and ran to the door, but she had gone too far—I gave it to Mr. Hamley, who broke it in half in my presence—this (produced) is it—on September 3rd, about 6.40, the prisoner came again, bought a flower vase price 8 1/2 d., and gave me a bad half-crown—I fetched Mr. Hamley, who gave her in custody—she said "It is utterly false that I have been in the shop before."

WILLIAM HENRY HAMLEY . I keep this toy shop—on 3rd September the last witness brought me this half-crown—I found it was bad, went in and said to the constable "I will give her in charge for passing a bad half-crown"—Miss Tubb said "This is the same person who passed one ten days ago"—she said "It is utterly false, I have never been in the shop before," and that a man gave her the coin.

ARTHUR HAILSTONE (Policeman E 631). I took the prisoner; she said she had never been in the shop before—I received two half-crowns, one from Miss Tubb the same evening, and the other from Mr. Hamley next day at the police-court—the inspector asked the prisoner her address—she said "15, Great St. Andrew Street, Bloomsbury"—there is such a place—I went there.

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . These coins are bad and from the same mould.

The prisoner in her defence said that she received the last coin from a gentleman, but had never been in Mr. Hamley's shop before September 3rd.

GUILTY .— Four Days' Imprisonment.

OLD COURT.—Monday, September 14th, and

~NEW COURT.—Tuesday, September 15th, 1885.

Before Mr. Recorder.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-805
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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805. HENRY WILLIAM VINE , Unlawfully obtaining credit to the amount of 300l. by false pretences, with intent to defraud.

MR. TICKELL Prosecuted; MR. GRAIN Defended.

ARTHUR MUSCAT YETTS . I am an auctioneer, surveyor, and estate agent, at 82, Queen Street, Cheapside—in January last I had some business transactions with the prisoner, who was carrying on the business of a confectioner at 14 and 16, Terminus Road, Eastbourne—I was employed to obtain a partner for him—on 28th January I had an interview with him at my office—he was anxious to have a loan of 300l., and I declined to give it him, because he offered me as security freehold property at Eastbourne subject to two or three mortgages—I said "You have the leases of 14 and 16, Terminus Road unencumbered; I will make you an advance upon them"—he said "I have a lease of five years unexpired which I have surrendered to the Duke of Devonshire; a new lease is being granted for 21 years"—I then said that I would send for my solicitor, Mr. Hack; that he should come, and the prisoner should give the necessary instructions—I told him I would take the freehold for what it was worth, and he said he would hand over the new leases as soon as they were granted—I was present when Mr. Hack took the instructions for the purpose of executing the deed—on the same afternoon the defendant came into my office again—Mr. Hack was there with, I believe, the draft mortgage and the original deed—one of them was handed to the prisoner, who read it and handed it back, saying it was perfectly correct—it could not be executed that day because Mr. Hack wanted to fill in some blanks, and the prisoner could not give the necessary information—before he left I drew this cheque for 300l. (produced), which was endorsed by him in my presence, and it was handed to the clerk, who went to the bank and got it cashed, and handed the money over to him—I parted with my money on the faith that the new lease would be handed over, and that the old

lease was unencumbered—on the 6th of May I saw the deed executed by the defendant at my office in the presence of Mr. Hack—I saw the defendant sign it—this (produced) is the deed. (The third schedule of this mentioned all the houses, land, premises, and rears situate between Terminus Road, Eastbourne, and no mention was made of any encumbrance; it was to secure the repayment of 300l.) After Mr. Hack had left on the 6th May I asked the defendant when I might be expected to receive the new leases—it was quite time I had them—he was rather excited at the time, and said "I have left them with Mr. Catt at Brighton, but I have no doubt I can get them"—he said there was about 300l. owing on his account—on 10th June I went down to Eastbourne and saw the defendant, and asked him about the leases, and he offered me some draft leases of some back premises, but not of 14 and 16, Terminus Road—he said he had left them with Mr. Catt; that he had paid 1,000l. or 1,100 l., and that there was a balance still due of 300l.,and he had no doubt he could get them—up to the present time I have not received any of the 300l. back or the leases—there were two bills given as collateral security—they were renewed in August.

Cross-examined. The prisoner was introduced to me with a view to selling his business or getting a partner about the 6th on✗January last year—I have my books here—I took his instructions down on a sheet of paper, and my clerk copied it into my book; it is there dated 7th Jan., it was written on that date—I have seen that sheet of paper here—I was then told about the 21 years' lease of some premises in the rear of the shops 14 and 16, Terminus Road, that he was trying to acquire from the Duke of Devonshire—I have here that I was instructed to sell the business or acquire a partner to put in 2,000l. for a half share, and 150l. for the furniture, and that I introduced Mr. Chamberlain—that was what was given me, and my boy copied it—it was written on the same day—I mentioned Mr. Chamberlain that day; he may have come in the afternoon—he eventually entertained taking a half-share—I can't say if he did that day—the sum agreed on was 2,000l. I think—Mr. Vine stated he had been 27 years in business (that was probably true), that it was the oldest trade in the town, that 5,000l. a year were his average takings, 26l. cash a day and 25 per cent. clear profit; 1,300l. was the valuation of the stock; that the owner put in his own son, and would give his own assistance; that he had a wine, spirit, and beer licence, and had a manager in charge—those Particulars were taken down on 7th Feb.—the back premises were to be got from the Duke of Devonshire—I arranged the terms—I was to be paid for introducing Mr. Chamberlain—I understood from the prisoner he had been engaged in speculations, and that was his reason for wanting a partner—I went down with Chamberlain to Eastbourne and we examined the business and the pass-book—I am the firm of Peto, Yetts, and Co. (Mr. Gill here read various letters, one of Jaunary 7th, from the witness to the prisoner, suggesting that he should come down with Mr. Chamberlain; another saying that if Mr. Chandler was the prisoner's solicitor, the witness would be pleased to meet him, but he could allow any one to step in to arrange the matter; that his charge of five per cent. and out-of-pocket expenses would become payable when the business was completed, and he believed it would not fall through, and that he had given the prisoner's business the preference, although he had another one to suit Chamberlain; and a letter of Jan. 14th, asking him to send his books, a list of payment

and rates and taxes. ) I said before the Magistrate those were sent to me—Mr. Vine asked me for a loan—I was not afraid he would sell the business to some one else—I wrote this letter to the prisoner at his brother's request, on the 26th, asking him to come and stay at my house at Forest Hill, where we could talk the matter over—his brother had said he must have money—the prisoner came to my house on Tuesday, 27th, I think, and to my office the next day—at that time, subject to his statement, the Chamberlain matter was going through—it is true that Mr. Chamberlain expressed his intention of going into partnership—I can't say whether the agreement with Mr. Chamberlain was drawn up before 27th Jan.—it was done by Mr. Vine's solicitors, Morgan and Steinigs, who came and saw me with the draft deed of partnership—I cannot tell when that was—callers' names are entered in this day-book, I see no entry of their calling—we discussed this loan on the 28th, when he came to my office; I could not say when the Chamberlain business would be completed, as it was in his solicitor's, Mr. Boyd's, hands—the 100l. was five percent. on 2,000l., to be given for the goodwill and house—100l. added to the 300l. I secured by the mortgage was my commission on the sale of the business to Chamberlain—although the word interest was used, it was commission—I was arranging about the commission before the thing was completed—the 100l. was not interest—Vine did not say he was not going to sign the deed and pay such interest, he had agreed to it before—after he asked me if I would make a reduction I believed it was arranged—I would not charge more than 50 per cent, if it was done in three months—he never said he would not pay me any such sum as 50 per cent. interest—I swear he did not then say he would only pay me 25l. if it was done in six weeks—this is a memorandum of 28th January: "If you pay me the amount of money this day advanced to you at any time after six weeks from this date, I undertake to charge you proportionate interest on the sum advanced to you"—I was to charge him proportionate interest on the 100l. interest—Mr. Hack wrote the memorandum—I pledge my oath the 100l. was for commission on the business—the proportionate interest on six weeks would be 25l.—he did not decline to sign that deed, but he did not sign it, because he could not give the information as to the addresses of the parties who advanced him money on mortgage, the first and second charges—the first schedule of the mortgage relates to freehold houses of a rental of 227l. a year; they were subject to two or three mortgages; the second schedule shows a mortgage on property bearing a rental of 650l. a year, and the third schedule relates to the leases of Terminus Road—I perused the mortgage deed—it secured the sum of 409l. 2s. 6d. to be paid in August, with interest in the meantime at the rate of five per cent.—the interest was really to date from August, that was the understanding—I was to enforce it—I never heard the names of Messrs. Stapley and Pearson in January. (MR. GILL proceeded to read the indenture.) The 9l. 2s. 6d. for solicitor's costs was what Mr. Hack was to have—I still say that the sum to be paid in April was not for interest but commission—I took bills from him made payable at my office—I did not expect Chamberlain's money to pass through my hands—I did not ask him for the lease till 6th May, I think—the first bills became due on 30th April, I think; I wrote to him in April about them. (This letter advised him not to sacrifice such a grand old business, and stated that he had financed and cleared more complicated

ones, and would come down after Easter to do what had to be done in time.) That related to two freehold properties—that correspondence was going on before the mortgage was signed at all—12 bills would be becoming due about April 30th—I wrote on that date that if the sum of 409l. 2s. 6d. was paid punctually on 1st August no further interest would be charged—I swear that was commission—it is my custom in making loans to make my charge in the security—if the thing had not been carried out with Chamberlain I should only have been entitled to 300l. and what consideration for my services we might agree on—if he paid by 1st August the deed stipulated 5 per cent., and I was not going to charge him any interest—the 50l. if six weeks, or 100l. if in August, was commission—I wrote to the prisoner after the interview on 6th May—he told me then, four months after advancing the money, that Catt had his leases—the bills were renewed then—I did not think that Chamberlain's matter had fallen through then—I saw Mr. Hack with a stranger about charging the leases in the hands of Catt—I did not charge him on 6th May because he said he had left them and thought he could get them—I prosecuted him because he did not get them. (A letter was here read from the witness expressing his surprise at hearing that the leases were in Catt's hands, and saying that he would not delay a day after 1st August, and that the prisoner would pull through if he would realise on his freehold property at once.) I still went on trying to get the leases—the matter of trying to get a partner or sell the business was out of my hands and in Chamberlain's solicitor's hands—I told him if Chamberlain did not buy the business or go into partnership I could easily find one who would—I was in communication with a Mr. Hutchinson, and went on negotiating the sale of the business—I instructed my solicitor to take steps against the prisoner about the 13th—he wrote on 11th May saying he was afraid his client would take criminal proceedings against him—I left the matter in his hands—after I returned from taking out a summons at the Mansion House I found the notice of the meeting of the prisoner's creditors on my table—I wrote on the 13th asking who had the leases—I had seen in the City Press, "W. Catt and Son, of Brighton," and I did not know if they were the same or not—I wrote and asked him for a cheque for 21l. for advertising and expenses prior to 28th January, before the arrangement was made about the 100l.—I did not press him to sell—he did not ask me for advice as to what he should do about selling—he said he believed if it was sold he would have a surplus—the letter of 8th June referred only to the sale of the property, not of the business—up to 8th June I was asking him to come and see me about selling the property—he did not call on me in answer to my letter of the 8th—I wrote to him on 9th June, asking him to have the leases ready to hand over to me the next day—I was calling on him to perform the covenant and deed executed in May with regard to money in January—I believed right up to the last I should get the lease—I wrote that before I got the notice of meeting of creditors—I had no summons in my pocket when I looked in at the meeting—my man was sitting on the stairs—I knew there was a meeting of creditors after I obtained the summons, and that bankruptcy proceedings were pending against him, although he was not yet adjudicated a bankrupt—I attended the adjourned meeting—I had about five days' notice of the first meeting.

Re-examined. The Chamberlain matter fell through entirely, and the

defendant has called a meeting of his creditors—the bills which were given were three-months bills, and I renewed them both.

THOMAS HACK . On 28th January I was called to Mr. Yett's premises, and there saw the prisoner and Mr. Yetts, and received from the prisoner instructions as to the preparation of a mortgage deed, which I took down, and now produce here to-day. (The mortgage deed was between Yetts and Vine, to cover the sum of 350l. and interest if paid within three months, 50l. extra if six months; the 1st schedule was subject to a mortgage of 1,430l. and 1,200l.; the 2nd schedule to 5,000l. and 800l.; and the 3rd on the leases of 14 and 16, Terminus Road, unencumbered leases being prepared.) I drew the deeds after the interview—later on the same day I was present at an interview between Mr. Yetts and the prisoner, and I produced the draft deed, and the defendant read it over—I asked him to be certain about the Christian names and dates—there were some blanks to fill up, and he was not able to give me the information, so that the deed was not executed that day—shortly after 16th May I found out the actual lessor of 14 and 16, Terminus Road.

Cross-examined. I did not know at that time that the prisoner had some solicitor preparing the deed of partnership with Mr. Chamberlain—I did not hear Norman and Steinig's name mentioned—no one represented Vine in this matter.

Re-examined. He said the leases had been surrendered to the solicitor of the Duke of Devonshire, and fresh ones were being prepared—I do not recollect his name—this mortgage is to cover the sum of 350l.—the prisoner did not say in my presence that as the matter with Chamberlain would be carried out in a few weeks, there was no reason for charging so much.

JOHN CATT . I am a miller; I have known the prisoner for many years as a customer—on 28th January last he owed me about 346l., and for that money I had got two old leases of the houses he occupied to carry on his business at—they were in the possession of my solicitors, Messrs. Griffiths and Edgar, Brighton—the 350l. has never been paid off—I have not the two new leases in my possession—there was a committee of the creditors to try and arrange business, and I handed them over to the official receiver—he is not here—I understand Mr. Glenister has them here. (Mr. Glenister, the prisoner's solilcitor, here stated that he had custody of the leases as private solicitor for Mr. McIntosh, the official receiver, and he produced the two new leases.) These are the two new leases of 14 and 16, Terminus Road—untill I handed them over to the official receiver they were in my possession, in substitution of the old ones, as security for the money due to me from Vine.

Cross-examined. The transaction of the matter of the leases was carried out by my and the prisoner's solicitors—I think Mr. Hilman was acting for the prisoner and Morgan and Steinig for me—I began business in 1832—I have known Vine 10 or 15 years; he has been a customer of mine during that time—he did a good business in Eastbourne, not so much as a baker as a confectioner and restaurant keeper—he has paid me 1,000l. for flour—the confectioner's business was a fairly good one; he understood that, but not building—I am a creditor for his running account for flour—I held the leases for anything that might be due for a running account—there was nothing beyond that—the account has been running for a great many years.

EDWARD WILLIAM PALING . I live at 47, Old Stein, Brighton, and am manager to Mr. Griffiths, solicitor to Mr. Catt—I had in my possession the old leases up to 12th February—I handed them over to Mr. Vine's solicitor, and received the new on 12th February.

Cross-examined. Mr. Stiggin had to do with the matter—he said when he first came that the leases were to be handed over.

The prisoner received a good character.


14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-806
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

806. JOHN EDWARD SMITH (52) and GODOLPHIN FINNEY BURSLEM, otherwise the Hon. Captain Godolphin Osborne, otherwise Godolphin Osborne Burslem (29), Unlawfully conspiring to defraud Robert Coulson, and obtaining by false pretences 200l

MESSRS. MONTAGU WILLIAMS and MEAD Prosecuted; MR. GRAIN appeared for Smith, and MR. BAYLIS for Burslem.

FREDERICK JAMES CULLIN . I live at Burgess Hill, near Brighton—in January I possessed property called "The Grove" at Burgess Hill, which I wished to dispose of—I saw an advertisement in the Daily Telegraph, and on answering it I was brought into communication with Mr. Herbert Smith, an auctioneer, from whom I learned that the proposed tenant was Captain Osborne—I asked Mr. H. Smith for references—amongst others he referred me to John Edward Smith, solicitor, of 14, Clement's Inn, to whom I wrote—I received this answer. (Dated 29th January, 1885, stating that Captain Osborne would be a satisfactory tenant, and one who would honourably carry out all his engagements.) After that I received a telegram from Captain Osborne, in consequence of which I went to the Langham Hotel—I saw the prisoner Osborne—he asked me if I felt disposed to sell the house and what I would take for it—2,700l. was mentioned as the price—he then proposed to come down and look at the property—he answered to the name of Captain Osborne—he came down on the following Sunday, February 1st, and looked at the property, and expressed himself satisfied with it—he then said he was secretary to the Army Purchase Commission at the War Office—he referred to this entry in Whitaker's Almanack: "Secretary, Sidney Godolphin Osborne, Esq. [salary], 600l. "—he said he had been in the Artillery; that he had an income of between 2,000l. and 3,000l. a year, and was the son of the Duke of Leeds—I expressed my surprise that he had not a title to his name—he said it did not necessarily follow that all sons took a title—a memorandum of agreement was drawn up, which he signed, by the terms of which he was to pay 1,500l. down, and the remaining 1,200l. by four quarterly instalments of 300l., for which bills were to be given—he said his solicitor, Mr. Smith, would join in the bills—the abstract of title was to be sent to Messrs. Hales and Collinson, solicitors—on 6th February he took possession with my consent as he pressed me—he was to pay 300l. for the furniture—I arranged to put other furniture in, the cost of which the 300l. was to cover—it was arranged that Mr. Livesey, who acted in the matter, should also act for him, as he said his solicitors were so slow—no money was paid to me—before 25th February another arrangement was substituted for the first one as to payment, by which I agreed to take 200l. cash down, and the rest was to be secured on mortgage—I had already mortgaged the property for 1,000l. to Mr. Guntry, who had the deeds—I arranged to convey the property to Captain Osborne—he was to execute a mortgage deed for 1,000l. to Guntry—

Guntry agreed to let it remain, and then there was to be a second mortgage to me for 1,500l.—I saw Osborne on 5th February at the Langham Hotel when Smith was present—nothing was said before Smith—on 25th February Mr. Livesey, my solicitor, and I went to London to Messrs. Monk and Lloyds, solicitors, with Captain Osborne, whom we met for the purpose of Osborne seeing Mr. Monk before he signed the deeds, and that Mr. Monk should give him some advice—we waited to see Mr. Monk, and Mr. Livesey explained the matter to Burslem, who signed the deeds, viz., a conveyance by me to Captain Osborne, a mortgage to Guntry for 1,000l., and a second mortgage to me for 1,500l.—no money was paid—Mr. Livesey then retained the deeds as escrows, and as security for the 200l.—Osborne still retained possession of The Grove—he changed the name, and called it Osborne Hall—after the deeds were signed an execution was put in against Burslem, who had already taken the furniture on a hiring agreement, not being able to pay it—some things had been taken when the Sheriff came—on 2nd April I took out a summons against Burslem for obtaining furniture by false pretences—that summons was adjourned by arrangement—on 16th April Burslem was taken in custody—I then found out the nature of his representations—I appeared as a witness at Bow Street—when I regained possession of The Grove I made a search, and found these five letters. (Signed "John Edward Smith," and addressed to Captain Osborne; one of 10th February stated, "it is a matter of life and death I should have 20l. to morrow;" one of 19th February stated, "I suppose the bill is arranged; I am pressed as to it;" one of 27th February said, "I felt sadly troubled this evening; I have gone on promising my client, from whom I got the bill, from day to day, so my burden is doubled; there is money due to him and money I want for myself; I shall be at the office to-morrow morning waiting with great anxiety;" and that of 28th February stated, "I cannot understand what is meant by success when I have been kept waiting so long after you parted with possession of my bill; my client is getting more and more dissatisfied; altogether I am in a regular fix; I shall be at the office to-morrow morning, and ready to hear any arrangement you may propose to make.") Burslem handed this card to me, "The Honourable Captain Osborne, late Egyptian Gendarmerie."

Cross-examined by MR. BAYLIS. I first heard from Burslem on 29th January, after Mr. Herbert Smith's visit—I had purchased the property six months previously for 1,350l., but it has all been altered; it cost me 2,000l. actually—I spent 600l. on it—Burslem came originally to rent the property, and then agreed to buy it—that was his own suggestion—he was let into possession because he pressed me, and promised there should be no delay—he lived there five weeks ostensibly as the owner of the property—he alluded to some promissory notes that had been lost—the summons taken out at Cuckfield was not dismissed—it was remanded for a fortnight, but not settled—a sum of 80l. was not paid over to me by Mr. Harrison—the summons is still standing over, I imagine—I only made the two inquiries, to Smith and to Hayle and Collinson, who were his solicitors—the inquiries were satisfactory—the execution was put in in the name of Burslem by a money-lender in London—I explained the matter to him—Counsel advised Burslem as to title—it was Burslem's suggestion to show the deed to Mr. Monk, and I had no objection—it was on Burslem's behalf.

Re-examined. Mr. Harrison was going to advance money to Burslem for carrying out the purchase—Mr. Monk was Mr. Harrison's solicitor—I believe the deeds were signed on 20th February.

WALTER SIDNEY LIVESAY . I am a solicitor, of 7, Pavilion Buildings, Brighton—I was acting for Mr. Cullin in the sale of The Grove to Burslem—I received my instructions from Mr. Cullin, who brought me the agreement which had been prepared—I communicated with Mr. Guntry, the equitable mortgagee—he allowed me to have the deeds—on 4th February I prepared abstract of title, and kept the deeds a week for that purpose, and returned them on 11th February to Mr. Guntry, and received his undertaking—I had not then seen Burslem—on 14th February I received written instructions from Osborne—on 19th February I obtained the deeds from Mr. Guntry to carry out the completion of the sale—I received this letter from John Edward Smith: "13th February, The Grove, Burgess Hill,—I have received instructions from Captain Osborne in the matter of this purchase, and he informs me that Mr. Alfred Harrison has returned, or will return, to you the abstract of title. I am to request that when you receive it you will kindly forward it to me immediately, along with any other accompanying papers"—on 20th February I had prepared the conveyance from Cullin to Osborne and the mortgages to Guntry for 1,000l., and 1,500l. to the vendor—those deeds were executed at Mr. Monk's office, but never delivered—Mr. Monk was Mr. Harrison's solicitor—it was suggested that he should see the deeds, and I offered no opposition, provided the expense was borne by the purchaser—I went to Mr. Monk's office, waited two hours, explained the matter most fully, and Counsel's opinion was taken by Messrs. Haskett and Metcalfe on behalf of Burslem—Burslem, after hearing the explanation and the opinion, signed the deeds—I retained them because they were executed in escrow, no purchase money having been paid—I afterwards sent back the deeds of title to Mr. Guntry.

Cross-examined by MR. BAYLIS. Mr. Harrison was represented to be Burslem's trustee or financial agent—the last witness executed the deeds in my presence—I informed Burslem the deeds were escrows, and explained the meaning of the term, the condition being the payment of 200l.—on 17th February I received a letter from the prisoner Smith, stating that he was acting for the prisoner Burslem, and on 19th February from Monk and Co., stating that they were acting for him—I thought proper to act under my own instructions until that power was revoked—I received these written instructions (produced) from the prisoner.

Re-examined. An abstract of title is a short abstract of the deeds relating to the title, to enable the purchaser's solicitor to see the nature of the title—if the deeds were in Smith's possession it was not necessary to send him an abstract.

JOHN GUNTRY . I live at 35, Claughton Road, Hove—I was the equitable mortgagee of "The Grove" at Burgess Hill, and had the deeds in my possession and memorandum of deposit—from the beginning of February to the present time I have only parted with those deeds to Mr. Livesey—I sent them to him twice and he returned them.

Cross-examined by MR. BAYLIS. Mr. Livesey did not tell me what the deeds were wanted for—I understood from Mr. Cullin that the property was sold.

ROBERT COULSON . I am an estate agent, of 9, Northumberland Street, Strand—I advance money on property at times—on 13th February, Sedger, who I knew before, called there with the prisoner Burslem, who he introduced, saying "This is Captain Osborne, who is going to lend some money on the Novelty Theatre; he is a relation of the Duke of Leeds, and very well connected; he has some freehold property, and wishes to raise on mortgage about 2,000l. "—he said that the property was a freehold house at Burgess Hill, the property of Burslem—Burslem said "I want a mortgage of 2,000l. at five per cent., but I am temporarily in want of 200l. or 300l. to go on with; I have bought the house for 2,700l., and paid for it all but 600l., and my solicitor's bill of costs is owing as well"—I said "Who is your solicitor?"—he said "Mr. Smith, of Clement's Inn;" No. 15, I think—he said that he had given his acceptance for 600l. to make up the balance of the purchase money—I said "Before the mortgage can be carried out for the 2,000l. it will be necessary to have the mortgage paid off, because it will be considered as unpaid purchase money"—he said that he had between 2,000l. and 3,000l. a year; and Sedger said that he had a pension of 600l. a year, and showed me his name in Whitaker's Almanack, Sidney Godolphin Osborne, Secretary to the Army Purchase Commission—Burslem did not contradict or deny that—I said "Where are the deeds?"—Burslem said "At Mr. Smith's, my solicitor's"—I asked him how that was; he said that Smith had endorsed the bills for 600l., and held the deeds till they were paid—I said "Can I see the deeds?"—he said "I will write to Mr. Smith, authorising him to give you all the information required," which he wrote and gave it to me—I said "I shall require a survey"—he said "200l. will do for me to-day"—I sent Mr. William Jackson to Smith's to make inquiries, and gave him the letter Burslem had written—he returned and made a report to me, in consequence of which I advanced Burslem 200l. by this cheque (produced)—as far as I can recollect the letter said "Dear Smith, please give the bearer all the information you can about my property at Burgess Hill; I am about to raise 200l. as a temporary loan," or "a second charge"—I saw Burslem the same afternoon, and handed him the cheque—I had sent for Mr. Barnes, my solicitor, and he was in my office and prepared this mortgage deed (produced) in Burslem's presence, and he signed it—on 18th February Burslem called again, and I advanced him a second 200l. on a similar mortgage—he brought with him this bill of exchange (For 93l. 15s. 6d., drawn by Marsh and Co., and accepted by William Long and Co., wine merchants, Chancery Lane; endorsed by Smith and by Osborne.) He said "This is a bill which my solicitor has taken for a bill of costs, and he wants to turn it into money as quickly as possible"—I said "I do not care for the people's names who are on the bill; if Mr. Smith will endorse it as well, I will entertain it"—Smith's name was not on it then—he said "Oh, Smith will endorse it at once; I will send it on for his endorsement"—he wrote this letter to Smith in my presence. (Asking Smith to endorse it)—it was brought back with Smith's name on it, and I then handed Burslem the cheque for 270l.; 200l. for the bill and 70l. on extra advance—this other mortgage (produced) was signed in my presence—I then instructed my solicitor to see the deeds, and I saw Burslem and said to him "There seems a great difficulty about these deeds; first you sent us to Mr. Smith, and he says he will produce them, and he does not do so,

and now I hear they are at a solicitor's office at Brighton. I understand there is a bill of costs of over 100l. in addition to the 600l. "—he said "Yes, that can be paid out of the 2,000l. mortgage; the deeds are at Mr. Smith's other office at Brighton"—he had said to me "There are some documents at Harrison's which will prove to you that I am the man I represent myself to be"—I went to Harrison's and was shown these two documents. (Receipts for sums paid to Burslem's credit at King's, the Army agents)—I had no idea that those sums had been 14l. and 15l., and that two noughts had been added to each (Making them 1,400l. and 1,500l.)—Mr. Livesey, the solicitor, discovered that the prisoner had never paid for the property—I sued on the 95l. bill and got judgment, but have not got the money—I advanced the money believing Burslem's statement that he was a relative of the Duke of Leeds, and had 2,000l. a year, and that Osborne Hall was his property.

Cross-examined by MR. BAYLIS. Mr. Sedger was lessee of the Novelty Theatre at that time—I had known him three months, he wanted to raise a mortgage on the Novelty Theatre—he is not here—it was he who made this statement as to Burslem's position—Burslem was present when Sedger said that he was secretary of the Army Purchase Commission; he sat a few feet from him and could hear it—he did not reply to that, but he occasionally nodded his head—I was a corn dealer in the north before I came to London 20 years ago—I was bankrupt once in the north, in liquidation—I only made arrangements with my creditors once—I came to London in 1880—Jackson is one of my agents, I did not enter into partnership with him; I had rooms where he lived—he advertised to lend money, people were to apply to him, but I was to advance the money—I am not prosecuting in this case willingly, I have a Crown Office subpoena and am obliged to come, much to my disgust—I have prosecuted persons before for defrauding me, and the charge was dismissed—it was Sedger's introduction which induced me to lend Burslem the money, and I made inquiries through Mr. Jackson and Mr. Smith—I was satisfied with what Sedger told me—Burslem said that he had 2,000l. a year allowed him by his family and his pension was about 600l., I understood him 600l. a year—he said that he was in the receipt of it, not that he expected to get it—I charged him 25l. for interest for the 200l. including fees; I dare say that was 75 per cent. per annum—I looked upon it as a temporary loan, and he said he was not particular about the interest he paid if he had it that day—he said "You can charge a fair bonus, you will have the expense of going down;" and as to the second 200l. I asked what I should charge, and he said "The same as before"—I would not take the 93l. 15s. 6d. bill unless Osborne and Smith signed it; the discount would be over 150l. per cent.—I have got judgment on the bill—Harrison and Burslem were present when I saw these two advice notes; I looked at them and saw the figures, one is dated nine months and the other six months before—I knew that a sum of money paid in then would probably be gone—he told me that Burslem was his mother's name, and sometimes he had money sent to him in one name and sometimes in the other—he afterwards gave me cheques amounting to 450l. respecting the two mortgages—I have sued on the cheques, but do not expect to recover on them because the drawer of them has no money—he is Mr. Collinson, a solicitor of Chancery Lane, who is in partnership, and I think their affairs are being administered to

in the Court of Chancery—Burslem showed me several letters and cheques showing that Collinson owed him money, and I believe more than this—I kept the cheques for what they were worth—I believe Collinson is in a perfectly solvent state, some judgments are registered against him—the two mortgages of 225l. each were signed in my presence—they were filled up, not signed in blank, if that has been stated it is perfectly untrue—I heard the, whole of the first one read through.

WILLIAM JACKSON . I am a licensed victualler, of Shirley Road, Maida Vale—on February 13th, 1885, I was at Mr. Coulson's office—Burslem was with him in another room—Mr. Coulson came out, gave me a letter to Mr. Smith of Clement's Inn, and asked me to go there and make the necessary inquiries—I went there, gave the letter to Smith, and told him that Captain Osborne and Burslem gave me instructions—he opened it and said "Yes, all right"—I said "Mr. Coulson told me that the letter had reference to property near Brighton, and that Captain Osborne had given nearly 3,000l. for it and had paid for it except about 600l., is that correct?"—Smith said "Yes, it may be a little more, about 700l., there are some costs and charges; you may safely say he has not more than 800l. to pay on it"—I said "Are you the mortgagee, do you hold the deeds?"—he said "Yes"—I said "Can I see them?"—he said "Yes, but not now; we are in confusion, I am just moving into this office and I cannot tell whether the deeds are here or in my other office"—I said "Can I see the deeds by appointment?"—he said "Yes"—I said "Can Mr. Coulson's solicitor see them?"—he said "Yes, certainly"—I asked him if it would be safe for any one to advance 200l. or 300l. on it; he said "Yes, quite safe"—I said "If the money is advanced will you accept notice of the second charge?"—he said "Yes"—I returned and communicated what had passed to Mr. Coulson.

Cross-examined by MR. BAYLIS. I only saw Smith for a few minutes as he was unlocking the door of his rooms to go in—I did not go in.

RICHARD BARNES . I am a solicitor, of 45, Finsbury Pavement—I am Mr. Coulson's solicitor—on 13th February I was in his office, and prepared this notice of mortgage, and saw Burslem sign it—I thereupon prepared this note of the charge to be given to the mortgagee, and gave it to my clerk, Mr. Langford, on Saturday, the 14th, and he served it on the 16th—I had instructions from Mr. Coulson to execute the deed, and on 16th February I wrote this letter to Smith and Co. (Making an appointment to call next day at 1.30 to peruse the deeds on behalf of Mr. Coulson.) I went there at 1.30 on the 17th—Smith came in while I was waiting, and said that he had just telegraphed to me that it was not convenient to produce the deeds that day, and he would write and make an appointment—I then returned to my office and found his telegram; this is it (produced)—on 18th February I had instructions from Mr. Coulson to prepare another mortgage deed, and Osborne signed it in my presence—I prepared a second notice of charge, and took it to Smith for his endorsement, and I spoke about the execution of the deeds—he said that he had not got them then—I said that I understood Captain Osborne had purchased the property, and that all the purchase money had been paid except 600l.—he said, "Yes, that is so"—I said Mr. Coulson proposed to advance 2,000l. on a permanent mortgage on the property, and that the vendor was willing to let his charge remain second to any

mortgage—he said, "That is right, it can be arranged with the vendor"—he said the deeds were not in town then—I said, "I suppose it is only a question of your sending for them, and they will be sent"—he said "Yes"—I had heard he had an office at Brighton, Mr. Coulson told me go—on 27th February I saw Smith by appointment at the Tivoli Restaurant, Strand—I asked him how long he had known Osborne—he said four or five years—I went to Smith's office another day after that—I had heard from Osborne that Mr. Livesey, of Brighton, was acting for him for the purpose of getting a mortgage on the property, and I said to Smith, "I understand Mr. Livesey is acting for Osborne"—he said, "Yes, it will be better to give him notice of my client's charges on the property"—I asked whether I should give the notice—he said he would—I said, "If you write and tell me you have given notice to Mr. Livesey that will do"—I received no letter from him, and on 12th March wrote him this letter. (Requesting to know if he had written to Mr. Livesey.) I received no reply to that, and on 16th March wrote this letter to Mr. Livesey. (Giving him notice of the charge on the property.) I received this answer from Mr. Livesey. (Acknowledging the letter and stating that he was no longer acting for Osborne, who had no interest in the property yet, although he had agreed to purchase it.) That was the first time I heard what Captain Osborne's real position was—I took that letter to Smith, read it to him, and asked for an explanation—he said, "It can be explained," but asked me not to mention it to Mr. Coulson till he had seen Osborne, as Mr. Livesey was not acting for Osborne, but Mr. Monk was—I never heard from Smith that the deeds were with Mr. Livesey; he did not tell me I was wrong in supposing that the deeds were in his (Smith's) possession.

Cross-examined by MR. BAYLIS. I drew up the first mortgage on 13th February about 2 p.m.—I do not think Mr. Coulson read it, he might have—a promissory note or a bill was signed by Burslem on the same day—it is not my custom to draw up a mortgage without seeing the deeds—they were not examined, as he said they were all right—I presume a bill was for the same amount as the deed, 200l.

Cross-examined by MR. GRAIN. I believe Mr. Smith has been on the Rolls as a solicitor nearly 30 years—he said on 19th February that the deeds were not in town—when I saw him he was moving from one office to the other—Mr. Livesey is a solicitor at Brighton.

CHARLES WILLIAM LANGFORD . I am clerk to Mr. Barnes—on 16th February I took the first notice of charge which has been put in—I saw Smith, who endorsed the duplicate, and said to him, "We understand this property is subject to a lien for unpaid purchase money of about 500l. "—he said, "Yes, that is so"—I said, "Of course Mr. Barnes will have to see the deeds"—he said "Yes"—I said, "We understand the deeds are at Brighton"—he said "Yes."

JOHN CHRISTIAN . I am a warrant officer, of the Royal Artillery, employed in the Artillery branch of the War Office—I know the prisoner Burslem as Godolphin Burslem—when he was about 16 he was a driver in the Royal Artillery; that was in 1871 and 1872—I was transferred from the brigade, and lost sight of him for some years—I saw him again during the South African campaign in 1883; he was then at the War Office inquiring for his medal—he had then been discharged as a gunner

—he was not a captain in the Royal Artillery or any other force so far as I know—his pension is 1s. a day.

Cross-examined by MR. BAYLIS. He lost one of his legs in South Africa—I do not know that he was a captain in the Egyptian Gendarmerie or in the Cape Volunteers—he has already lost his pension.

Re-examined. I do not know how he lost it—he is not a non-commissioned officer—he was discharged as a gunner on account of his wounded leg.

WILLIAM CAMPBELL ANNESLEY . I am senior clerk in the Pension Department, War Office—a pension was granted to the prisoner when he was discharged in 1880; it was paid up to March, 1885—it is stopped now—it was always paid in this country except on April 3rd, 1883—he lost a leg before his discharge—I know one Sidney Godolphin Osborne, the secretary of the Army Purchase—that is not the prisoner—commissions were not given to non-commissioned officers in South Africa serving under Lord Chelmsford.

Cross-examined by MR. BAYLIS. I never heard that Burslem was in the Egyptian Gendarmerie—I should not think so, as he lost a leg—his pension was paid quarterly personally, except once when he was paid by cheque, for which purpose he had to send evidence of his being alive—his pension was due again in April after he was in custody.

EDWARD NAINBY . I am a clerk to Messrs. King and Co., bankers, Pall Mall—on May 7th, 1884, the prisoner Burslem came, and produced a card, and on May 9th he opened an account, which was kept open till October, 1884—on 26th July, 1884, 15l. was paid to his account in the name of Major Burslem, upon which I wrote to the prisoner, addressing him "Capt. G. O. Burslem"—this is the letter, but the 15l. has been turned into 1,500l. by the addition of two noughts—on 18th September 14l. was paid in with this credit slip: "Please to credit 14l. to Captain Burslem, from Major Burslem, Windsor"—I then wrote to the prisoner Burslem this letter, but two noughts have since been added to the 14—four other sums have been paid in represented to come from Major Burslem—the largest sum that has ever been to Burslem's credit is 156l. 4s. 4d.

ROLLO GILLESPIE BURSLEM . I am a retired Major in the Army, and live at Windsor Castle—the prisoner Burslem is my nephew—this is the certificate of his birth. (This certified the birth of Godolphin Finney Burslem on May 6th, 1855.) I did not pay 14l., or 15l., or any sum to King and Co. on his behalf—he is not the son of the Duke of Leeds or any relative, and his name is not Osborne.

Cross-examined by MR. BAYLIS. Mr. Hales, a solicitor, wrote to me once, but I do not know him—I did not write and tell him that the prisoner had good means: 500l. a year—if he says so it is not correct—all my family except the prisoner, have held commissions in the Army and Navy; my brothers were all in the Army, but I have cousins in the Navy—I may have given the prisoner money when he was staying with me as a boy, but never more than 10s.—he was called Godolphin by his family and never Osborne that I am aware of, but I have not seen him half a dozen times since he came from the Cape—he wrote and told me from London that he was a captain in the Egyptian Gendarmerie, but I never heard it from any one but himself.

CHARLES HAYDON (Police Inspector). I have had charge of this case—I

found this paper among Burslem's effects. (This was dated August 8th, from the Secretary of State for War, giving permission to G. F. Burslem to leave Cardiff.) The word Captain had been inserted before the initials.

Cross-examined by MR. BAYLIS. I did not see Burslem in his cell, and advise him to make a clean breast of it or I would get him penal servitude, nor did I say anything of the sort to him at Bow Street.

Cross-examined by MR. GRAIN. Burslem was in custody some time before Smith—the last hearing was before Sir James Ingham, who released Smith on his own recognisances to appear here and take his trial.

Re-examined. There is not the slightest truth in the suggestion that I asked Burslem to make a clean breast of it—I have been 28 years in the service.

JOHN COCKRELL (Police Sergeant). I took Burslem on 14th April—he has been in custody ever since.

Burslem's Statement before the Magistrate. "Coulson says that one reason he lent the money was the statement by Sedger. Sedger has not been called. I ask why the letter sent from me to Smith of February 13th has not been produced. The above noted were in the name of Burslem, and the witnesses swear they only knew me as Osborne before my arrest. Messrs. Boxhall were going to arrest myself and a gentleman for conspiracy, and I went to Coulson to borrow the money temporarily to save the gentleman, who was ill in bed. Coulson says he is suing on the cheques for 450l., and he expects to get it back. The Treasury knew the money was not for me at all, and the 450l. did not come to me. It is not shown that I have not the income I stated, I belong to a good family. I can pay everybody in the world 20s. in the pound. I have been here three months; I was brought here because I said, it is alleged, that I was 'The Honourable.' I am the next-of-kin of the Earl Godolphin, who I believe is related to the Duke of Leeds. The charges have been jumbled up. I have not had the money. I have always said I held a Captaincy in the Volunteers or Colonial forces; non-commissioned were given a commission for the time being in Africa under Lord Chelmsford. The card produced is 'Late of the Egyptian forces.' When I have said I was in t✗he Royal Artillery they have jumped to the conclusion that I was a captain, I never said so. They could always have turned to the Army List. I lost my leg in Zululand. Harrison was told long before that I had served in the ranks and only had 1s. a day pension, and they all knew that since 3rd February or 4th. The money was not borrowed till 13th February."

SMITH— NOT GUILTY . BURSLEM— GUILTY on the first two Counts. — Five Years' Penal Servitude. (There were other indictments against Burslem.)

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-807
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-808
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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809. WILLIAM HAMMOND (33), Feloniously wounding Jessie Moore, with intent to do grievous bodily harm. Second Count, shooting at her with a like intent.



JESSIE MOORE . I am a single woman, and live at 15, Frederick Place, Mile End Road, with my mother—I have known the prisoner about 11 years; he married my eldest sister about June, 1875; they separated in November last—she left him on account of his cruelty—on the 13th July she was not at our house—about a little before 6 o'clock on that day I was at home with my mother, and heard a knock at the door, it was opened by my mother—I was in the back parlour, on the ground floor, which is level with street door—what first attracted my attention was my mother calling out "Oh, Jessie, Jessie!"—I went out of the back parlour into the passage; the prisoner was there; he took hold of me by the left arm—I don't know whether he was sober or not—he forced me to the ground and put a pistol behind my left ear, I felt it pressing against my flesh—I then heard a report and found I was wounded—he then went and looked in the back parlour, and then walked along the passage out of the door, into the street—I had not seen him previous to this evening for five or six months—I had remonstrated with him more than once about his ill-treatment of my sister—nothing was said at the time he shot me—I knew he had been to Egypt—I saw no more of him that evening—I was assisted, and a doctor attended me and got the bullet out, and I was able to attend before the Magistrate on 28th July.

Cross-examined. I have been living with my mother up to the present time—the prisoner went to Suakin some time in January, and served with the expedition there—I never had any quarrel or angry words with him—he called from time to time until Christmas to see my mother—his wife has never lived with us since she left him—he did not propose that 2l. should be paid to his wife out of what he earned—I have not heard him say so—I have been present when he has seen my mother, but not when he has pressed her to receive money for his wife—she has wished it to be kept secret where she was—the prisoner came back from Suakin about five or six weeks before this day—I passed him once in the Mile End Road, but did not speak to him—on this particular occasion I heard something said to my mother, but I don't know what it was—my mother went in the front room and slammed the door, and left the prisoner out in the passage—I should say the words "Oh, Jessie, Jessie!" were said at that time—the prisoner smelt of drink.

SARAH MOORE . I am the wife of John Moore, carpenter and builder, and live at 15, Frederick Place, Mile End Road—on 13th July, about 6 p.m., I heard a knock at the door; I opened it and saw the prisoner—he said "Mother, I have called for my answer, where is my wife?"—I said "You have had my answer before, it is your wife's wish that you do not know where she is;" he then took a revolver from his pocket and presented it at me, saying "Take this"—I got into the front parlour and shut the door, and screamed to my daughter, who was in the back parlour—about a minute after I was in the front parlour I heard the report of a pistol—I then opened the door and went into the passage—the prisoner was in the passage; he passed by us and went out at the street door with the revolver in his hand—my daughter was standing up between the

two doors, he had to pass her—she was bleeding very much from the mouth and neck, more from the mouth—the prisoner turned to the right when he went out at the door, and came back a minute or two after and threw the revolver at my feet, but did not say a word—I at once sent for a doctor and called for assistance, attended to my daughter, and sent for the police, who took possession of the pistol—I had seen the prisoner between a week and a fortnight before this evening at my house; he called about his wife—when this matter took place, from his manner and demeanour he appeared to be perfectly sober.

Cross-examined. The address of his wife was kept from him from November, 1884—before he went to Egypt he proposed allowing her 2l. a week, and it was refused—upon his return from Egypt it was proposed by him to put 60l. in the savings bank for her use, and for that purpose he wanter her signature—I refused by her wish—she has not been living with me at all—the letters from Egypt were addressed to my house, and I gave them to his wife—no explosion took place when he presented the pistol at me—he appeared to me to be looking for his wife in the back room—at the time he passed I and my daughter in the passage I am quite sure she was bleeding from the mouth, the passage was saturated with blood—she was wearing a brown velveteen dress—when I came out of the front parlour door my daughter was just getting up, and seeing her condition I went and supported her—the prisoner was near the back parlour.

WALTER WEBB . I live at 6, Frederick Place, Mile End Road, and am a clerk—on this evening I was going home down Frederick Place, near the house of Mrs. Moore, and heard the report of a pistol—I should think I was about four or five yards away from the house then—I went to the door and saw Miss Moore come to the door with a wound in the neck, from which blood was flowing, and she was also bleeding from the mouth—I waited outside the door about a minute, and then the prisoner came out from the passage—I did not notice whether he had got anything in his hand—I ran for a policeman—I got back in four or five minutes—the prisoner had then gone—about two minutes after I saw him stopped at the top of the street.

Cross-examined. The door was full open when I got to the house—the prisoner came from the back part of the house—I did not go into the passage at all—the prisoner had walked about 100 yards when the constable spoke to him.

JOHN KEER (Policeman K 318). I was on duty in Burdett Road on this evening about 6 o'clock, when the last witness came and said a woman had been shot—I proceeded to Frederick Place, and saw the prisoner going up the street—a woman in the crowd said "That man has shot a woman"—I ran after him, and he then began to run—I was in uniform—I caught him in about 300 yards—I said "I shall take you in custody for shooting a woman"—he made no answer—I then asked him what he had done with the revolver, and he said "I have thrown it away"—I then took him to the station—he appeared to be sober, but he smelt very strongly of drink—he didn't seem as if he had been drinking on that day.

Cross-examined. He was about 20 yards from the house when he began to run.

ROBERT JOSEPH MCNAMARA , M.D. I live at 560, Mile End Road—

I went to 15, Frederick Place on this evening, and saw the injured woman—I found she was suffering from a pistol wound just behind the left ear—it was downwards and forwards—the bullet had lodged in the tongue on the right side of the mouth—it was extracted—a man who was in the house then handed the revolver to me—it was a six-chambered revolver—one chamber had been discharged, and the other five were loaded.

Cross-examined. I did not see the prisoner at all—I don't know whether the bullet taken from the woman's mouth fitted that revolver—there is no permanent injury to her.

EUGENE BRADSHAW (Detective). I was at the station when the prisoner was brought in—he was placed in the dock, and he said to the inspector, "How is poor Jessie? I shot her and threw the pistol away"—after he was charged he said "I have not been round there to see Jessie for a fortnight"—I afterwards went round to the house, and saw marks of blood about—the revolver was handed to me by Mr.McNamara—one barrel was unloaded and the others were loaded.

ELIZABETH DEAN . I am the wife of Edwin Dean, and live at 2, Essex Street, Bethnal Green—the prisoner is my brother—he had been home from the Soudan about six weeks before this matter occurred—before he left, he left in my charge a portmanteau and a pistol in a leathern belt—he always left all his things with me—between 4 and 5 o'clock on this afternoon he inquired for his things and I gave them to him—I went out into the garden, and when I went back he had gone and taken the pistol out of the leathern case, and taken it with him.

Cross-examined. He is 33 years old—he lost his father when he was 11 1/2 years old—he went to sea and got a mate's certificate in 1872, and served on many ships—he was superintendent of ships in the employment of the Millwall Dock Company for many years—before he left there in January, 1884, he received an injury to the head, and was laid up with it—he left there of his own accord, and he had no work between that time and November, 1884, when his wife left him, and he then came and lived with us—she left him penniless, and he was very ill indeed—he was under my care quite a month—the pistol was in pledge up to the night before he went to the Soudan—he went there as a foreman to lay the railway from Suakim to Berber—he requested me to see his mother, and arrange for the payment of 2l. a week to his wife—she fully refused to take anything from that man, and said she would rather sell the bed from under her—I didn't know the whereabouts of his wife, or I should have told him—he came home on the 20th June, and he then renewed the search of his wife—he had some parrots as presents for her—about a fortnight before this occurrence he sent her a gold watch and chain, which was returned, and after that he drank very heavily—on the 13th he seemed a little better—from the 20th of June up to the 1st of July I had had the pistol in my possession—I put it between two beds, because my husband is so timid of firearms—I had no idea it was loaded, and he had never touched it from the time he came from Egypt—it would take him quite half an hour to get from our place to their place—he had taken the pledge before he went to Suakim.

LLEWELLYN MORGAN , B.M., M.R.C.S. I am medical man in charge at the House of Detention—the prisoner was first brought under my notice on 14th July—he was then suffering from a mild form of delirium

tremens, and he improved from the first day of my seeing him—I saw him daily after that—I never noticed any signs of an injury to the head.

Cross-examined. He appeared to know perfectly what he was about—I saw him on the 14th as I went my rounds between 10 and 11 o'clock.

GUILTY .— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-810
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

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810. DAVID GIBBONS (43) was charged on the Coroner's Inquisition only with the manslaughter of Richard Freake.

MR.TICKELL. for the Prosecution, offered no evidence, the Grand Jury having ignored the bill.


14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-811
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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811. WILLIAM MALONEY (55), Feloniously wounding William Maloney the younger, with intent to do grievous bodily harm.


WILLIAM MALONEY THE YOUNGER . I am the prisoner's son—I am a bootmaker—we lived together at 22, Brook Street, Tottenham—between 5 and 6 o'clock on the night of 19th August we had some words—I said something to him, and he defied me to strike him, and I struck him in the face—I then went down the street into the Ship public-house—he came after me in between a quarter of an hour and 20 minutes—he asked me if I called myself a son to strike his father—I told him to go away—he made a blow at me with his right hand; I did not see what he had in his hand; he stabbed me in the left arm—I went to the Tottenham Hospital, and had my arm put into splints and bandages—it is getting on very well now—I am still under medical care.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I struck you five or six times in the face—we were both quarrelling together—we were both drunk—I knocked you down and beat you when you were down—I don't think I kicked you, I made a kick at you—the row was about some pictures.

EDWARD PALMER . I am a labourer, and live at 33, Dawlish Road, Tottenham—on 19th August, between half-past 5 and 6 o'clock, I was standing outside the Ship public-house talking to the prosecutor—the prisoner came up—I stepped about four yards aside—I saw him strike his son on the arm—as he drew his hand away I saw a knife in his hand—the son pulled up his sleeve and said to the prisoner, "Look what you have done"—I saw blood running down his arm—I did not see him strike his father.

GEORGE HERCLOTZ VOSS . M.R.C.S. I am surgeon to the Tottenham Hospital—on 19th August the prosecutor came there—he was suffering from a punctured wound on the upper posterior part of the left arm; the direction was towards the elbow, two inches deep and three-quarters broad; it had apparently bled a great deal—I dressed the wound and put it in a splint—he has attended at the hospital 10 times altogether—the instrument glinted off the bone—considerable force must have been used—this knife (produced) would produce the wound.

ROBERT JESSOP (Policeman Y 443). On 19th August, about 20 minutes to 6, the prosecutor came to the station—blood was running down from his arm—in consequence of information I went to Lansdown Road, Tottenham, and there found the prisoner—I told him I should take him into custody for stabbing his son—he said, "Very well, I will go with you"—on the way to the station I saw him trying to get his hand into his pocket—I put my hand into his pocket and found this knife naked

in his pocket; it is a shoemaker's knife; it is an open knife, it does not shut up—I took him to the station, and he was charged.

ALFRED REED (Police Inspector). The prisoner was brought to the station—I said to I Jessop, "Is this the man that is wanted for stabbing?"—Jessop said "Yes"—the prisoner said, "We had a bit of a row, and he fell on the knife"—Palmer and Lockey came in, and made a statement in the prisoner's presence—the prisoner then said, "What I done I deserve all I get."

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "My son and myself had been taking a drop of beer. He said, 'Shall I take the pictures down and go and pawn them?' I said, 'You can do as you like if the mother will let you.' He took them down, gave one away, and kicked a hole through the other. I said he had no right to do so. When I went back to the house I found the glass and the things all smashed up, and my wife said he had pelted her head with the glass. He said, 'If I had a knife I would run it through your swine's heart,' and said, 'You old sod, I will kick the heart out of you.'"

WILLIAM MALONEY (Re-examined). I did not pelt my mother with the glass—I swept the things off the drawers because she was calling me names—I did break the glass—I do not recollect saying, "If I had a knife I would run it through your swine's heart," I might have said so, I was drunk—I called him an old sod—this is my knife; I cannot account for how it got into my father's pocket, I left it at home.

GUILTY of unlawfully wounding. Recommended to mercy by the Jury. — Three Months' Hard Labour.

The prosecutor was bound over to keep the peace and to find one surety.

THIRD COURT.—Tuesday, September 15th, 1885.

Before Mr.Common Serjeant.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-812
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

812. ALFRED MUSGRAVE (23), Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.


GEORGE NICHOLSON . I live at 38, Marylebone—I was barman at the Man in the Moon, King's Road, Chelsea—on 19th June the prisoner came in about 4 o'clock with a few gentlemen and ladies, had something to drink, and gave me this half-crown in payment—I gave him the change, and left the half-crown on the till—Mr.Biggs came in the bar and drew my attention to it, and I found it was bad—I saw him test it—the prisoner was there then; I said nothing to him about it—on 23rd July, between 7 and 9 o'clock, the prisoner came in again—I saw Mr.Biggs serve him—he paid with a half-crown, which Mr. Biggs called my attention to and broke and gave back to the prisoner; it was bad—I have seen the prisoner in the house, and have no doubt he is the man.

JOHN BIGGS . I am barman at the Man in the Moon—on the 23rd the prisoner came in with a woman, called for a pint of six ale, and tendered a half-crown, which I broke or bent easily in the tester and handed back—he paid in good coin for the liquor, and after drinking it he left—I had seen him there on the 19th with others—I did not serve him, but I called my barman's attention to a bad half-crown on the till, and he pointed it out to the prisoner, who was standing there—eventually, I

believe, one was destroyed—I bent that one; it sounded like lead; the colour was misty and greasy; it was very light—on 26th June my barman Lawson showed me a bad half-crown about closing time—I saw the prisoner and his friend Newton there—they called for two cigars—Newton had tendered me several before—I believe Sergeant Smart has that half-crown.

JOHN THOMAS LAWSON . I was barman at the Man in the Moon—Biggs called my attention to tho half-crown which Nicholson took, I saw it broken; I did not see the prisoner there—I have seen him at the bar several times and have seen Newton there with him—Newton tendered me a half-crown about the 12th.

THOMAS KNIGHT . I am barman at tho World's End, King's Road, Chelsea—at 1.15 on 19th July the prisoner came in with seven other men and ordered some liquor and put down some coppers—at 1.45 in another bar, they were drinking all the time, he put down this half-crown in payment for ale and whisky—I bent it in the tester and said "This is a bad one"—I was just returning it as the landlord came—he asked the prisoner where he got it from—he said "I got it at a hat shop the night previous in change for half a sovereign"—the governor had examined the tills at 1.15—the other five men were in the bar when I took this; shortly after they left—the prisoner borrowed a shilling from one of his companions and paid—as soon as I got the good money I gave him in charge.

CHARLES CLIFFORD . I keep the World's End, King's Road, Chelsea—about 1 o'clock on 19th July the prisoner was there with some other men—I saw him served with some four ale—he came out of one bar and into another, and as I went into the bar I saw my barman give him back a half-crown—I asked him what he was giving him—the barman said it was bad—I said "Is that a bad one?"—the barman said "Yes"—I took it out of his hand—I then went to the other bar and found this other half-crown precisely the same—I then charged him—I held the one I took from the prisoner in my hand and gave it and the other one to the constable, who marked the coins at the station—I believe the prisoner paid with good money.

JAMES SMART (Police Sergeant T 37). On 19th July about 2 o'clock I was sent for and took the prisoner at tho World's End—I said "You are given in custody for passing bad money, you will have to go to the station"—he said nothing—the landlord gave me this bent half-crown, on which I made a cross—on leaving the house the landlord gave me this other half-crown—on the prisoner I found 6d. and some coppers—at the station the prisoner said "I received the hall-crown from a hatter's shop in the Fulham Road, Mr.Melton, on the day before, the Saturday"—in consequence of something the Magistrate said I took the prisoner to this hatter, who said, "I don't remember your coming here on Saturday, I remember your coming here some three months ago with another man the worse for drink; you were very drunk and had a lot of beautiful flowers with you, that is how I remember you; you both bought hats"—I told Mr.Melton what the prisoner was charged with—he said "I don't remember him here"—the prisoner said "I was here on Saturday, surely you remember me"—he said he bought a new hat, a common one, and not marked with any private mark—he was wearing a browm felt hat, and Mr.Melton said it was a dark hat he bought three

months ago—Mr.Melton denied his having been there on the previous Saturday.

Cross-examined. He said he did not remember you; he had a number of hats of the class you were wearing, they were common ones and not marked—there was no assistant, his wife was in the shop.

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . I am Inspector of Coin to Her Majesty's Mint—both these coins are counterfeit and from the same mould—all the tests of the coin spoken of by Biggs are indications of a counterfeit coin.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate."It is false. I had only the one half-crown. I did not know it was bad."

GUILTY . †— Eighteen Months' Hard Labour.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-813
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

813. HENRY LAWRENCE (21), Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.


SOPHIA CRABTREE . I keep the Hungerford Arms, Hungerford Road, Islington—on 3rd August about 6 p.m. I served the prisoner with half a pint of ale which came to a penny—he gave me a shilling; I gave him change, and he left—I looked at it while he was there, but I was not sure it was bad till ho had gone—I handed it to my husband and sent after the prisoner, who was brought back—my husband said to him "You have passed a bad coin"—he said he did not know it was bad—a policeman came, and he was given in custody—I handed the shilling to the Magistrate—this is it.

DANIEL MUNDEN (Policeman Y 544). On 3rd August I was called to the Hungerford Arms, and the last witness said that the prisoner came in and called for a pint of four ale and tendered a bad coin, which she produced—he said "I did not know it was a bad one, if it was a bad one I must have got it on Hampstead Heath"—I found on the prisoner ls. 6d. silver and 9d. bronze good money—he gave his address, Empress Chambers, Queen Street, Seven Dials—when charged he made no reply—he was brought up next day at Clerkenwell Police-court, remanded to the 15th, and then discharged.

ALICE ROBERTS . I live at the Sovereign Tavern, Osnaburgh Street—on 29th August, just before 8 p.m., the prisoner came in and called for half a pint of ale, and gave me a shilling, which I tried in the tester and bent, and told him it was bad, and gave it to him back—he said he really did not know it, and he then paid for the liquor he had with a sixpence—I gave him change—on the following Monday, 31st, I saw him at the police-station in Little Albany Street going to get into a van—I had not seen him before the 29th—I have no doubt about him.

ADA CLIFTON . I am head barmaid at the King's Head, Cumberland Market—on 29th August, about 7.45, the prisoner called for half a pint of ale, and tendered a shilling, which I discovered to be bad immediately—I caught hold of him across the bar, and held him till Mr.Martin, the land-lord, came—the prisoner offered to pay with a sixpence, and said he was a hard-working, respectable man, but Mr.Martin said he would make him prove it—I gave the shilling to Mr.Martin, who put it on the counter, and the prisoner immediately took it up when Mr.Martin's back was turned, and ran out of the house—Mr.Martin went to fetch a policeman—this is the same shilling.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You ran out as fast as you could—I caught you by the throat.

JOHN MARTIN . I keep the King's Head in Cumberland Market—on 29th August I was called by my barmaid, who had got the prisoner by the throat—she gave me the shilling, and said "I have got him; this man has passed a bad shilling"—she was inside the bar, and the prisoner outside—he said "I did not know it was a bad shilling; I am a respectable working man"—I said "You will have to prove that"—he picked up the shilling and rushed out at the door as soon as I turned my back—I could see the shilling was bad as soon as I took it up—I gave the prisoner in custody.

RICHARD MOON (Inspector S). On 29th August I was called to this public-house, and saw outside a lad about 18, Good burn, holding the prisoner—Mr. Martin about 12 feet off cried out "Look out, Mr. Moon, here is a smasher, there ho goes, he has passed a bad shilling!"—the prisoner got away from Good burn and ran—I followed him into Stanhope Street halloaing "Stop him!"—he was stopped, and I got up to him—his left hand was closed; I asked him what he had in it, and told him to open it—he said "I shan't"—I told him I should open it for him—he then opened it, and I took from it this shilling sworn to by Miss Clifton, a sixpence, and a ten-centime piece—I told him the charge; he made no answer—on searching him I found 1s. 6d. silver, 5d. bronze, all good—when the charge was read he said to Miss Clifton "You shouldn't have caught hold of me by the neck"—when asked his address he said first "I shan't give it," and when asked again said that he had no fixed abode.

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . These two shillings are counterfeit, from different moulds.

The prisoner in his defence stated that he was almost certain he never went in the Sovereign, and that he did not give a bad shilling in the King's Head.

GUILTY. Fifteen Months' Hard Labour.

FOURTH COURT.—Tuesday, September 15th, 1885.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-814
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > hard labour

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814. JOHN CAMPBELL MULLINS (24), WILLIAM HENRY MANSER (21), and ALBERT HERBERT BRISKHAM (18), PLEADED GUILTY to forging and uttering a banker's cheque for the payment of 10l., with intent to defraud. MULLINS and MANSER— Five Years' Penal Servitude. BRISKHAM— Eighteen Months' Hard Labour.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-815
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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815. FREDERICK WALTER CHAPMAN (32) to forging and uttering a banker's cheque for the payment of 4l., with intent to defraud.— Five Years' Penal Servitude. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] And

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-816
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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816. HENRY LOVE (17) to burglary in the dwelling house of William Ash, and stealing therein an overcoat and other articles.— Twelve Months' Hard Labour. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-817
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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817. GORDON PENTECOST WHITWORTH (48), Forging and uttering, with intent to defraud, a certain valuable security.


WILLIAM ELSE . I am Chief of the Transfer Department of the London and North-Western Railway Company—on 4th April, 1879, I issued this

document to the prisoner, whose name it bears (produced)—the figures "100l." have been altered into "300L.," and the writing also—it was originally a certificate for 100l.—I identify it by the registered number, which has not been altered—the date has been altered—on 21st August, 1879, I received this letter from the prisoner. (Read: "Mollington, near Chester, August 20th, 1879. Dear Sir,—A few months ago I purchased 100l. London and North-Western Stock, and duly received certificate from my broker. On looking amongst my papers I cannot find this certificate, and am much afraid now that it got destroyed amongst other papers which were burnt by me a few weeks since on clearing out my drawer. I have been looking for this certificate for the last fortnight, but cannot find it. I kept it in the letter and envelope I received it in, and placed it with other papers of importance," &c.)—the directors have the power to issue a duplicate on being satisfied that the original is lost, and I accordingly wrote this letter. (Read: "I have made a note in the Company's ledger that the certificate of your 100l. Consolidated Stock has been lost or mislaid. I trust that on a further search for same it may be found, as a duplicate can only be issued on your giving the Company an indemnity and making a statutory declaration.") I received this reply: "Mollington, near Chester, August 28th, 1879. Dear Sir,—Referring to my letter of the 20th instant, and your reply thereto, I wish to state that after further search I cannot find the certificate therein referred to," &c.) We sent him a form of declaration, and we received it back signed "Gordon P. Whitworth" (produced)—a duplicate was issued on the 13th September, 1879, and on the 16th I received it with the transfer—on the 14th August last I received the original document, and the transfer previously, from Mr.Shaw (produced)—on the 15th August I received the transfer back again by post—Mr. Shaw's name was on it then—I first saw the certificate after 1879 on the 14th August last, when it was shown to me by a clerk in Mr.Shaw's office—we then examined the books and found what I stated.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. It is usual for the London and North-Western Railway Company, before a transfer is made, to notify to the transferor that the transfer has come in, and then if no objection be lodged within a certain time the thing is proceeded with—this was not done in this case, because we found something wrong in it—it was too apparent—we occasionally issue new certificates in cases of loss—we observed that the transfer was not signed by Mr.Shaw, and the stock certificate did not accompany it.

Re-examined. When we got the forged document we looked in the books and found that the number corresponded with the issue of the 100l.

JOHN SHAW . I am a stockbroker, of Wardrobe Chambers, and have had transactions with the prisoner for two and a half years—about April last I received the certificate marked "A" from him—there was some stock open, and it was going a good deal against him, and I advised him to close, and if not I must have security, and he handed me this amongst other documents, which I handed back to him—I believed it to be a genuine document—I think the transfer was completed at the same time—I do not sign till I deliver the stock, and through an omission of my clerk's it went in without being signed—he asked me to hold it over, as he had promised his wife not to part with it if possible—I said I would hold it over as long as I could—I took a bill at two months, but the

balance went against him, and the bill was dishonoured, and I sent the transfer in—to the best of my belief that signature is the prisoner's, and I should think that on the declaration is his also—he is still indebted to me in 1,200l., and I have not been able to realise anything on this document.

Cross-examined. There was a balance against you, and I asked you to give me additional cover long previously to your giving me this—I think I gave you a receipt for the certificate—I gave you a note promising not to make use of it for three months—the certificate was given to me at the end of January or the beginning of February—I had already a certificate of yours in my possession I think—I remember your stating your objection to transferring stock of any kind, in consequence of a loss you had sustained in other stock—I have occasionally obliged you by cashing cheques and dividend warrants, and I remember my cashing a dividend warrant for Berwick stock and my cashier handing you a cheque for it—I am in the habit of advancing money to my clients on stock shares—you never asked me to advance you money on this stock—I don't think you had any intention of defrauding me—I did not say at the Mansion House that you always spoke of this stock as "Berwick Stock;" I said I always did—the balance of your account against you at the end of January or the beginning of February was about 100l., and there was subsequently, I believe, no balance against you.

Re-examined. I told the prisoner that I should close the account if I had not more cover, but it does not follow that I should have done so.

By the Prisoner. I signed a memorandum to the effect that I would keep your account open to 300l. more than the value of the security for three months.

EDWARD WILLIAM BEALE . I am clerk to Mr.Shaw.

Cross-examined. The balance of your first account at the end of January was 103l. 6s. 1d. debit—in the middle of January there was 14l. 6s. 10d. debit—in February, 91l. 1s. 6d. debit—the end of February, 106l. 15s. 5d. debit—March, 19l. 12s. 10d. credit—the end of March 12l. 8s. 4d. debit.

By MR. METCALFE. The middle of April account showed a debit balance of 9s. 4d.—in August the debit balance was 1,202l. 6s. 6d.

By the Prisoner. I believe the transfer was all filled up when you came up to my desk to sign—it may not have been—I had the certificate before me—I do not know that I asked you your name—Mr. Shaw's name was not inserted—I have, as Mr. Shaw's cashier, occasionally cashed cheques and dividend warrants for you—I do not recollect cashing you a Berwick dividend warrant in February last.

ROBERT CHILD (City Detective Sergeant). I went to the prisoner's house in Powis Terrace, Bayswater, on Tuesday, 19th August last, and took the prisoner into custody—I said "I am a police officer; I shall take you into custody, and you will be charged with forging and uttering in or about the month of February last a certificate of consolidated stock of the London and North-Western Railway, purporting to be of the value of 300l., whereas it was originally only of the value of 100l., with intent to defraud Mr.Shaw"—he said "I had no intention to defraud Mr.Shaw, and have not committed any forgery; I left a certificate with him, but it is old and worthless; I signed a blank transfer, and I left this with other stock as security, on which he was not to realise."

The Prisoner. What I did say was not that I had left, but that I must have left, otherwise what you say is correct.

Witness. I am sure he said he had left it with other stock.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "With regard to the last certificate, what has been said is perfectly in order; but with regard to the original, that I found six months afterwards amongst some papers. The alteration of the certificate was made then simply as a matter which has no bearing on this case. It was done in a private manner for the satisfaction of my own wife. I was not aware that I had given Mr. Shaw that London and North-Western Stock, but Berwick Stock which I had, and all our conversation with respect to stock deposited was in reference to that."

Witness for the Defence.

JOE PENTECOST WHITWORTH . I am your son—I am cognisant of certain settlements which relate to my mother's interest, amongst which is one of 300l. settled upon her by her sister in 1871—this is the deed (produced)—my mother has several times, since I came of age, spoken to me about this settlement particularly—I heard her say she had generally had her own way in investing, but for once you would invest in Egyptian Bonds against her wish. (On MR.METCALFE objecting, the COURT ruled this evidence to be irrelevant.) We gave up the house near Cheater in August, 1884—I was at home then, and you were in London, and had been since the previous March—I used to search for your private papers and send them to you—you suffered from congestion of the brain about 15 years since, and have ever since been liable to attacks of insensibility—you have not been able to follow any calling during that time—the doctors who have attended you have said you must have perfect rest and quietude—since your committal clergymen and others have offered to come forward to speak to your character, but you have declined.

The prisoner in his defence said if the law allowed him to call his wife as a witness, she could prove that the certificate was altered by him (which he had never denied) with a purely innocent motive, except in so far as to deceive her in regard to the money he desired to invest for her in Egyptian Bonds; that he had no intention to commit forgery.

GUILTY. Recommended to mercy by the Jury. — Five Years' Penal Servitude.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-118
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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118. GEORGE RICHARD STEPHENSON (30) and JOHN SALTER (21), Feloniously attempting to commit an unnatural offence.




14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-819
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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819. JAMES DUDGEON (24) PLEADED GUILTY to two indictments for embezzling five sums of 20l. received on account of Joseph Forster and others, his masters.— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-820
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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820. THOMAS WATERMAN (19) to burglary in the dwelling-house of William Henry Green and stealing eight boxes of cigars and other goods and 5 1/2 d.— Twelve Months' Hard Labour. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-821
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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821. FREDERICK THOMAS CHRISTOPHER GRIFFIN (25) to five indictments for embezzling 10l. and other sums received for and on account of Henry Alderton, his master.— Five Years' Penal Servitude. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-822
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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822. JOSEPH PRITCHETT (32), Forging and uttering two orders for the delivery of goods.

MR.J.C.EARLE Prosecuted.

JOHN ROBERT ADY CROUCH . I am a warehouseman to Messrs. Sturt, Ward, and Sharp, of Wood Street—about 10 o'clock on 23rd July the prisoner produced this paper to me signed (a delivery order)—he said he wanted two dozen of handkerchiefs, one cream and one coloured, and that he came from Messrs. Woosnam Brothers of Seven Sisters Road—I sent the goods to Clarke, who was below—the handkerchiefs were silk, and valued at 4l. 18s.

ARTHUR CLARKE . I am employed by Ward and Co.—I took the box of handkerchiefs from Crouch to Stonelake, where the prisoner was.

THOMAS STAPE STONELAKE . I am a warehouseman to Ward and Co.—I got the handkerchiefs from Clarke and gave them to the prisoner—I entered them in my book, and the prisoner signed it in the name of Mason—the prisoner had called four times previously and produced delivery orders—each time he signed "Mason"—this is one (produced)—the first time was two months previously to this one—we have supplied Woosnam with goods some years—only five orders are signed "Mason," others were signed "Smith."

JOHN HENRY WOOSNAM . I am a draper, of 87, Seven Sisters Road, Holloway—the order produced was not signed by our firm nor by our authority—the writing is disguised, but I believe Charles Ward, who was formerly in our service, signed it—he left us three months before July—we never sent a man named "Mason" for goods.

ROBERT SAGER (Detective Officer). I saw the prisoner on Thursday, 23rd July, detained, also an order purporting to be signed by Messrs. Woosnam—I took him into custody for obtaining goods by means of a forged order—he said "Two months ago I met a man named Ward; he asked me to go into the house and get the goods for him, he gave me an order similar to the one in your hand; I took it in and got some goods and took it to the public-house and gave them to him; I met him again in the Tottenham Court Road, when he said he would meet me at 11 o'clock on Thursday"—-I said "What is your name?"—he said "Pritchett"—I said "It is signed 'Mason'"—he said "Yes, that is the name he told me to sign."

Prisoner's Defence. This man Ward asked me to go to the City and get these things, and the last time they told me it was a forged order.


OLD COURT.—Wednesday, September 16th, 1885.

Before Mr.Justice Hawkins.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-823
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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823. GEORGE BAKER (29), Unlawfully assaulting Martha Plumridge and causing her bodily harm.

The prisoner, being deaf and dumb, had the evidence interpreted.


CHARLOTTE DAVIS . I live at the Chequers Yard, Uxbridge—on the night of 13th August, between half-past 8 and 9 o'clock, I met the prisoner in High Street, Uxbridge, and went with him to a public-house and had something to drink, and from there I walked with him towards

a lodging-house where he was staying—when we got to Chequers Yard, because I declined to have anything to do with him, he rushed at me and attempted to violate me—I called out, and two men, Ackland and Hopper, came up and found him with his hands on my throat trying to strangle me—Ackland asked what he was doing—the prisoner put his head against the wall—I told Ackland that he was deaf and dumb—I went on a little way and met Martha Plumridge—she came to me—I was leaning against the railings very faint—the prisoner came up and aimed a blow at me—Mrs. Plumridge pushed herself in front of me, and I saw her reel and fall—I did not see any blow struck.

EDWIN ACKLAND . I live at Uxbridge—on Thursday night, 13th August, I heard screams in the Chequers Yard—I went to the spot and found the prisoner with his arms round Davis's neck—Mrs. Plumridge came up to see what was the matter—I then heard more screams, and saw Mrs. Plumridge leaning against the railing; I saw her reel and fall—I did not see the prisoner touch her.

JOHN HOPPER . I live at Uxbridge—I saw the prisoner holding Mrs. Plumridge by the neck—she reeled round and fell on her back—I looked at her, and she was dead—I gave the prisoner into custody.

AMBROSE CHARPENTIER, B.M . I am assistant to Mr. Roberts, surgeon, of Uxbridge—I was called to the deceased about 20 minutes past 10 on the 13th—she was then dead—I made a post-mortem—the cause of death was fainting from shock—there were no marks of violence—all the organs were in a considerable state of disease—a mere shock would account for death.


THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, September 16th, 1885.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-824
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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824. SAMUEL HODGKINS (31), JOHN SHAW (23), and JANE QUINN (23), Burglary in the dwelling-house of Thomas Rae, and stealing spoons, forks, and other articles.

MR. BROUN Prosecuted; MR. PURCELL defended Shaw.

JOHN CLEARY . I live at 23, Fowl Street, Notting Hill, and am a journeyman butcher employed by Mr. Rae, 195, Clarendon Road, Notting Hill—about 5 o'clock p.m. on 3rd August I left those premises safe, bolting up the doors and windows and pulling the street door after me, it fastened on the latch—there was nobody left in the house—next morning about 7 o'clock I came to work, and found the railing in front of the shop broken, and a screwdriver lying inside—the grating extended from one end of the shop to the other for purposes of ventilation, about one and a half feet from the ground—they could get through the broken grating into the shop—my master and mistress live at the shop, but were away for a holiday at the time—I let myself in with a latchkey—I found the lock of the door between the shop and shop parlour broken; I had left it locked—I went and fetched a constable—shortly after, about 9 o'clock, my master came, and soon after the inspector came—I know none of the prisoners by sight.

THOMAS RAE . I am a butcher, of 195, Clarendon Road, Notting Hill—on Bank Holiday, 3rd August, I wont out and returned on Tuesday morning—a constable had been sent for—in consequence of a communication

made by the last witness I sent for an inspector—these goods (produced) are mine—I saw most of them on Saturday night, 1st August—I keep some of them in drawers upstairs in the bedrooms and sitting-room, and all over the premises—the spoons and forks were kept in a cupboard in the sitting-room, not locked up—some are silver, some electro-plate.

Cross-examined by MR. PURCELL. The things were scattered up and down the house in different rooms, some locked up and some loose.

ROBERT MARKHAM (Police Sergeant X). About a quarter past eight on the morning of 4th August I went to 195, Clarendon Road—I found the grating had been forced away, and entrance been effected—the door leading from the shop to the parlour had been forced open, and a desk forced open—I went upstairs and found the chest of drawers had been forced open—the rooms were all ransacked—I went in company with Inspector Roberts and made a search round the neighbourhood—about a quarter to 9 I saw Hodgkins in Talbot Grove, about 200 or 300 yards from the scene of the robbery, walking sharply along—I was in plain clothes—I followed him, seeing his pockets were bulky—when he saw me he walked sharply till he got to the corner of Ladbroke Crescent; he then commenced running—I gave chase about 300 yards, and caught him in Ladbroke Grove—I found the whole of this property, spoons, forks, and other articles, in his coat pockets—he gave the address, 32, Talbot Grove—I went there, and found Quinn in the back parlour—I said, "I shall take you into custody for being concerned with Samuel Hodgkins in breaking and entering 195, Clarendon Road during the night"—she said, "I only waited outside the house while they went in"—I took her to the station—about 1 o'clock the same afternoon I saw Shaw in the Latimer Road, nearly a mile from the Clarendon Road—I told him the charge—he said, "I can prove that I was at the White Hart, Willesden, till 12 o'clock at night"—I took him to the station, and found 2s. 8d. bronze and 1s. silver and a skeleton key on him.

Cross-examined by Hodgkins. You were in the middle of Ladbroke Grove, 20 or 30 yards from the corner, when I first saw you—I was standing against the Lord Clyde, which is about 80 yards from Talbot Grove—I saw you look towards me—you were 100 yards from me when you turned the corner into Ladbroke Grove—when I turned the corner I saw you running—you made no reply, but seemed dumbfounded when I came up—'busses go up that road; I did not notice one standing there—I did not ask what was in your pocket, I could tell by the rattle—you did not say you were going to Scotland Yard or a police-station with what was in your pocket—I took you by the collar to the police-station—the door was half closed when I was speaking to Quinn; she was not dressed, so I pushed it to—I did not mark her on the charge-sheet as a prostitute, nor did I tell the inspector she was one—at 6 or 7 o'clock on Bank Holiday I saw you in North Pole Road, Wormwood Scrubs, with another man—that is nearly a mile from the scene of the robbery, and close to where I arrested Shaw—you came from the direction of Latimer Road—I took notice of you because in February the Pavilion was broken open and about 40l. worth of property stolen, and you doing no work and being about the neighbourhood I suspected you—I saw you nowhere else that evening.

Cross-examined by MR. PURCELL. The man I saw with Hodgkins was

not Shaw—I know him as the companion of the two prisoners—he has not been in the neighbourhood more than two months—Clarendon Road runs along Talbot Grove—his house is in Talbot Grove, near 198, Clarendon Road—there is a public-house the White Hart, at Willesden.

Cross-examined by Quinn. I did not say to you first when I came in your room "Get on your things;" you did not say "I know nothing of the affair," nor did I say "Yes you do; you were outside the shop when this was going on, and know all about it"—the door was closed—I took possession of your necklet and earrings as stolen property—I did not say they were so—I searched thoroughly after you were dressed—the door was open—you were in your petticoats when I came.

Re-examined. It is nearly three miles from the Clarendon Road to the White Hart at Willesden.

JOHN ROBERTS . I was with Markham in Clarendon Road on Tuesday, 4th August—we found an entry had been effected by forcing a large grating, and inside that we found a screwdriver—shortly aftewards I went with Markham to 32, Talbot Grove, and told Quinn the charge—she said "I did not break and enter; I simply remained outside"—she was partly dressed—she was taken to the station—I did not direct her to be entered as a prostitute.

Cross-examined by Hodgkins. When I saw you you were about 150 yards up Talbot Grove—I was standing with Markham about the centre of the street when we saw you running—you were about 300 or 400 yards from your lodgings, and going away from them—you caught sight of us and ran—the lodging-house was between the place we saw him at and the scene of the robbery—we thought Quinn's door at 32 was locked—there was a chair against it—I went in after the sergeant.

JAMES BROWN (Policeman X 465). About 10.5 on Bank Holiday I was off duty and in the Beehive public-house—while there the three prisoners came in—I was in uniform—Shaw called for something to drink—they stood there a little time and went out again—I stayed there till half-past 10, and then came out with Ingram, and went along Balfred Street—at the next corner I saw Shaw and Quinn standing—that was about half-past 10—it is about 50 yards from the Beehive to 195, Clarendon Road.

Cross-examined by Hodgkins. You were in the Walmer Road bar—you had a coat on similar to that you have on now—it was not a black one—it is about 150 yards from 195, Clarendon Road to the Lord Clive, and from there to the Ladbroke Grove Road about 100 yards—that is about 300 yards from 195, Clarendon Road to where you were talking—I was in the private bar—I cannot say if any one else was there.

Cross-examined by MR. PURCELL. The Beehive is close to Talbot Grove—I have never seen Shaw in that public-house before—I have been there before—it is not far from the police-station—I said at the police-court "I saw them in the public-house last night"—that would have been the 4th—that was a mistake, and I corrected it directly afterwards—I did not see Markham next morning at first, I did see him.

THOMAS INGRAM (Policeman X 202). On the 3rd I was in the Beehive with Brown about 5 minutes past 10—I saw the three prisoners there—they remained for about 10 minutes—they went out before I did—I did not see where they went to.

Cross-examined by Hodgkins. You were in the Walmer bar—I was in

the second one from the end—I saw two ladies sitting on a form in there, but no other men—the Beehive is about 150 yards from the Talbot Grove.

JANE MOTHOLY . I am servant at 197, Clarendon Road, next door to Mr. Rae's—about 20 minutes past 10 on the August Bank Holiday I was in my kitchen, and heard some one lumbering about in Mr. Rae's on the ground floor—his kitchen is next to me at the back of the shop—I did not hear the noise for about five minutes—I was alone at the time—subsequently I went to bed in the back top room, and about 20 minutes past 11 I heard some one lumbering about in the back top room of the next house—I knocked at the wall—that noise lasted for about five minutes.

Cross-examined by MR. PURCELL. Our house has a cheesemonger's shop attached to it.

Witnesses for Quinn's Defence.

KATE MACE . My husband is a painter—we live at 35, Talbot Grove—you came to our house about 7 p.m. on the Bank Holiday, and stopped there till between 9 or half-past, when you went to fetch some beer—then you came back and remained there in the room till you left, about 12 o'clock—I was in bed with my baby, and I, you, and my husband sat talking.

Cross-examined. I knew of her arrest on the Tuesday morning when a person told me—I did not go to the police-court—I was first asked to come here this morning—I have got a clock on the mantelpiece in the bed-room—it was going on this evening—I fix 7 o'clock because I had had some visitors just before, and I fix 12 o'clock because my husband was waiting to go to bed—I looked at the clock about 10 minutes after she had gone, and remarked to my husband it was very late.

MARY COLLINS . I am a dressmaker, and live at 159, Portland Road, Notting Hill—you came to my sister's, 135, Talbot Grove, on this Bank Holiday, about 7 o'clock—I was not there when you left.

Hodgkins, in his defence, stated that he picked up a bundle containing the articles outside a urinal on the evening, and next morning was taking them to Scotland Yard or a police-station when Markham apprehended him.

SHAW and QUINN— NOT GUILTY . HODGKINS†— GUILTY of receiving. He then PLEADED GUILTY a conviction of felony at Marylebone Police-court in May, 1885, in the name of Samuel Hodgkinson.— Eighteen Months' Hard Labour.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-825
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > pleaded guilty
SentencesImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > hard labour; Imprisonment > hard labour

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825. CHARLES ASKEW (28) and RICHARD FRANCIS (28) PLEADED GUILTY to stealing and receiving spoons, forks, cutlery, and other articles, the goods of the Civil Service Supply Association; and MAJOR WALTER EMERY PLEADED GUILTY to conspiring with them and other persons to steal the said goods. ASKEW— Five Years' Penal Servitude. FRANCIS— Eighteen Months' Hard Labour. EMERY Six Months' Hard Labour. An order of restitution was made.

OLD COURT.—Thursday, September 17th, 1885.

Before Mr. Justice Hawkins.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-826
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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826. HENRY NORMAN (45) was indicted for and charged on the Coroner's Inquisition with the wilful murder of Ellen Norman.


WRIGHT and M'CULLAGH Defended.

CHARLOTTE TOWNSEND . I am the wife of Drayton Townsend, a bricklayer, of 155, Estcourt Street, Fulham—I used to work for the prisoner's mother at 35, Mulgrave Road; the prisoner's wife worked there as an ironer—on 15th July, about half-past 7 in the evening, I was there—the prisoner came in; he appeared to be in an excited state—he said to his mother "Mother, my wife has been unfaithful to me, what am I to do?"—she said "Forgive her"—he said "What, once, twice, three times, how many times?"—she tried to smile and said "Seven"—he threw up his hat and said "No, I can't; I love my wife, but I'll kill that man; I can't rest"—it came on then time for the missus to pay the women—she went to the door and opened it, and the women were on the stairs—Mrs. Norman went on the stairs with a Mrs. Frost—when the prisoner's wife saw her husband come to the door she went towards the back room, as he stood at the front door—I then went downstairs with a pail of water, which I had been cleaning the room with—I was absent only a few minutes—as I came back through the passage the mother was standing in the passage—I heard the deceased shriek out "Oh"—the prisoner and she were up in the little back room—when Mrs. Norman heard the noise she said to Mrs. Frost and myself "Go up, don't leave me here by myself; I can't be left here in this manner"—I saw the prisoner push the deceased into the room—I took hold of him and took him away from her—he struck at her again, but did not hit her—I pushed him back—he said "Don't handle me," and he said again "Don't handle me"—I said "I shall; you shan't strike her"—he used some very bad language, and was there some little time—then the wife said "Let me come out, it is getting late; I want to get something for the children, and the shops will be shut up"—he said "I am afraid you won't go out from here to-night, Nell"—the women tried to quiet him, and after some little time we all went downstairs together—when we got into the passage the missus paid me and Mrs. Frost; she gave the prisoner something out of her purse; he kissed his mother and said "Good night and God bless you"—I was the last out of the street-door with his wife—I said "You are all right now; don't go home with him"—the prisoner had got his two little children, one on each side—I then left them—about an hour and a half after that I was at the Lord Clyde public-house, that is not five minutes' walk from there—the prisoner and his wife, and his brother, wife, and his two children came in there together and sat down—the prisoner seemed more agreeable then, and I went across the bar and spoke to the deceased—they all went out together.

Cross-examined. I have worked for the prisoner's mother turned three years, and I knew the prisoner before that—I don't know enough of him to say whether he was a most affectionate husband—I have not said before to-day about the wife shrieking "Oh"—I had not forgotten it—when they left the Lord Clyde they were more agreeable, but not happy—when he spoke to his mother about his wife being unfaithful he did not seem to be in a more distressed state of mind than he generally was; he did not throw down his hat, he only took it off—he did not do it in any excited manner, not more than usual—I have seen him so many times.

SUSAN NORMAN . I am the wife of Thomas Norman, the prisoner's

brother, and live in Pownall Road, Fulham—on Wednesday, 15th July, about 9 o'clock, I was outside the Lord Clyde and saw the prisoner and his wife and two children outside, they were quarrelling—the deceased was crying, and I asked her what she was crying for—she said "Harry has a dagger with him, and I won't go in until he gives up the dagger"—I tried to make peace between them—I said "Oh, don't think anything about it"—I said "If you have the dagger give it to me"—he said "No"—I asked them to go home and forget it—the prisoner promised me he would go home, that he wouldn't touch her that night; and I saw him go to his front door; his wife and children went in first, then he did, and I bid them good-night and left them—their house is only a few steps from the Lord Clyde—the prisoner is a painter by trade and went out usually early in the morning to work—I have known him 25 years—this is the dagger (produced)—I have seen it at the mother's house at least 20 years ago, it was kept in her bedroom under her bed, I couldn't remember whether it had a sheath—I have not seen it for years.

Cross-examined. The prisoner has been married from 10 to 11 years, and until very recently I have never known him any different from an affectionate husband—when I asked him to give the dagger to me and he said "No," I did not understand him to mean that he had not got it with him, he said nothing further than "No"—I did not ask him whether he had got it or not, I didn't see it—I was not in the Lord Clyde with them more than five or ten minutes; we came out together—at that time his wife was very anxious for him to go home with her—I have not seen this dagger at the mother's house since he was married—I have not been to his house more than twice in the 11 years and I have not seen it there—I don't know whether it was there or not—I remember the prisoner having a very heavy fall downstairs at his house, I was not there at the time—I had been so little in his company that I did not notice any change in his manner from that to which I had noticed before—about the first half of July of the present year the prisoner said he had been working on a roof, and it was so hot and he came over so dizzy and giddy he felt he should fall; he has been in the habit of holding his head lately, I have noticed it frequently with him, and more frequently since then—I have noticed him since that occurrence in a very excited and depressed condition, and especially so within a month or so prior to this sad occurrence.

Re-examined. I cannot fix the date when he said he had been on the roof—he did not go to any doctor that I know of—he has been to his work ever since, as usual.

JOHN BATTEN . I keep a general shop, and am landlord of 10, Rylston Terrace—the prisoner and his wife lodged there in the second-floor front, and I occupied the first-floor front room, underneath them—on Wednesday, 16th July, about 1 or 2 o'clock in the morning, I heard the prisoner making a noise, jumping and stamping about, and then a noise as if somebody had been thrown on to the floor; he then came out on the stairs and challenged me to come out and fight him—I was then in bed—I did not answer him, and he said he would burst the door open, and kept swearing if I did not open the door—I didn't answer him, and he went off quietly—on the Saturday week before that he had come to my shop about 8 o'clock or something of that, and performed, throwing his

fists about, and said "Come out here and fight"—I said "What do you mean, Norman?"—he said "You know all about it"—I said "You had better go out until you get sober, and I will talk to you then"—on Thursday, the morning after the noise overhead, when they came downstairs, I said to the prisoner, "What do you mean about this?"—he said "You know all about it"—he accused me with having familiarity with his wife—I said "I have not had anything to do with your wife, I I am as innocent as anybody is, we will have this out;" and I said "Call your wife down," and told the boy to go and fetch his mother down—she came down, and I said to her "Mrs. Norman, what does Mr. Norman mean? he accuses me of having familiarity with you, what does he mean about it?"—she said "Mr. Batten, there is not a word of truth about it"—he then made a noise of jumping about, and chucks down his hat and said "You know all about it"—I told him I should take out a summons against him—on this morning, 17th July, I was in bed about 5 o'clock, I heard some one go downstairs and run past the front of the shop, and then I heard the prisoner's girl and boy scream—I went up to the prisoner's room; I saw the wife lying on the bed in her night-dress, the clothes were over her as usual, nothing disturbed—I saw there was a little mark on her breast like a scratch, and some fatty matter round it; she just gasped once or twice—the little boy showed me the dagger, it was on the table underneath a handkerchief and a newspaper; it looked stained a little—I covered it over, and at once went for a policeman, and a doctor came.

Cross-examined. The prisoner was in the habit of going out to his work about 5 o'clock in the morning, and returning about 9 at night—he had for the last five or six weeks been throwing out nasty hints about me and his wife, and said something about improper intimacy with his wife, but I didn't understand him—he said on the Saturday "You know what is between you and my wife"—that was the first day he had said anything plain to me about it—when I called his wife down on the Thursday morning he seemed excited; I had seen him but very little before that—up to two or three weeks before this occurrence he and his wife seemed as usual—the dagger did not look as if it had been thrown down, but as though it had been covered over for the purpose.

ALFRED KNIGHTS (Police Sergeant T 43). I was in the Fulham Police-station early on the morning of Friday, 17th, that is between 700 and 800 yards from the prisoner's house, and saw the prisoner and Inspector Rawlings there, and from what he said to me I at once went to the prisoner's house—I got there about 10 minutes past 5—I went up into the prisoner's bedroom on the second-floor front—I there saw his wife lying in bed on her back, apparently asleep, with the bedclothes over her—I went and looked at her, and saw on her left breast, just here, what appeared to be a small scratch; she was apparently dead—there was a very small quantity of blood—I at once sent for a doctor—in the meantime I found the dagger on the table, covered over with a piece of newspaper—there was a small spot of blood on it—the bed was about two feet from the table—I looked at the dagger close up to the hilt, and there seemed a greasy substance on it—the things in the room showed no signs of having been disarranged or disturbed.

Cross-examined. The head of the bed was in the corner in a line with

the mantelpiece, which is close to the bed—there is a space between that and the mantelpiece of about 18 inches.

By the COURT. I did not move the body at all till the doctor came.

FRANCIS EGAN . I am divisional surgeon of police—on the morning of 17th July soon after 5 o'clock I was called to the prisoner's house—I found the woman lying in the bed on her back; I felt the body, it was quite warm and was quite recently dead—I examined the body and found a small wound on the left breast and some bruises which were not recent—on the 18th I made a post-mortem examination—the wound was a punctured one three inches below the clavicle and two and a quarter inches from the centre of the sternum and penetrated for a depth of five and a half inches, passing through the edge of the lung and the pericardium and penetrating the left auricle of the heart—that was the cause of death—this dagger corresponds exactly with the wound; in my opinion this dagger must have gone in right up to the hilt, because that corresponded exactly with the wound—the woman might have gasped once or twice—I saw the dagger at the time, there were very slight marks of blood upon it.

Cross-examined. I should say that if the prisoner had had sunstroke he would be more subject to fits of passion than an ordinary man—a case of sunstroke would be consistent with his complaining of his head, and though very slight at the time it might leave permanent effects—the prisoner is what is called a full-blooded man, and in that case a slight sunstroke may have permanently affected him more than if a man not quite so full; it may or may not, sometimes it does.

DAVID RAWLINGS (Police Inspector T). I was at the Fulham Police-station about 5 o'clock on the morning of the 17th when the prisoner came to the station—he appeared to be very cool and rational, he was fully dressed—he said "I have killed my wife"—I said "Where do you live?"—he said "10, Rylston Road; I killed her with a knife which is in the room, and she lies on the bed; I did it because she had been taking liberties with the landlord, but I can't think of his name"—I detained him and sent Sergeant Knight to the address—I put him in the dock and charged him with the murder of his wife—he said not a word.

Cross-examined. When he spoke to me he did not seem incoherent, his words were very distinct and he appeared to consider—he was half a minute before he said he did not know the landlord's name.

SUSAN NORMAN (Re-examined). This dagger was the property of the prisoner.


14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-827
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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827. WILLIAM HONOUR (60) was indicted for and also charged on the Coroner's Inquisition with the murder of Cormack McGarry.


HENRY HARDY . I am a saddle-maker, of 6, Norman Street, St. Luke's—on Saturday evening, 22nd August, between 6 and 7, I was in Old Street—I saw the prisoner driving a small four-wheeled van with one horse—he was only two or three paces from me when I first saw him—he was driving steadily till he took the reins out of his left hand and lashed the horse across the loins; that made the horse start a great deal faster, about eight miles an hour, and he was going towards St. Luke's Hospital—he was continually urging the horse on; it was galloping—I

saw an old gentleman crossing the road in his slippers—the near shaft of the van knocked him down, and the wheels went over him—I shouted after the driver to pull up, and several others shouted after him, but he took no notice—he still went on for about 100 yards before he was stopped.

Cross-examined. I saw a boy in the van; the thing was all over in a few seconds—I did not see the deceased leave the kerb—he was in the road when I first saw him—he was knocked down on the near metals of the tramway—he was walking across with his head inclined downwards—he did not look to the right or left—he passed behind a cart that was in front of the van—the prisoner pulled his right rein and cleared the horse's head from the deceased—if he had looked up the road there was nothing to prevent his seeing the van.

ALFRED BROWN . I am a solicitor; my offices are at 8, New Inn. Strand—on Saturday evening, 22nd August, about 25 minutes to 7, I was in Old Street, on the left side going from Aldersgate Street to Shoreditch—the road was particularly clear—I saw the old gentleman stepping down from the roadway—I heard a shouting on the right-hand side, and then I heard a noise behind me, as of a vehicle coming very furiously along, and I saw an Apollinaris van driven by a man and a boy—the near fore-part of the van swerved and struck the old man, and sent him right forward on his face, and the van passed over both his legs and apparently over his right side, as he lay on his face—I afterwards saw that the prisoner was the driver of the van, when he alighted—when I first saw the deceased he was about five yards in front of me—I believe the van was going about 10 or 12 miles an hour—I am not much of a judge—the horse was galloping—after knocking the deceased down the van continued on; there was a slight check; it swerved as it struck the deceased, and after it passed over him he ran away faster than ever—I saw the old man picked up and put on the kerb—the van was stopped from 110 to 120 yards from where the man was knocked down.

Cross-examined. I am now acting as locum tenens for a gentleman; my private address is 1, Caistor Villas, Manor Road, Stoke Newington—I saw no vehicles in the road except the cabs waiting in front of St. Luke's Hospital—I did not see any cart—I was probably about eight yards from the deceased when he started from the kerb—the van passed me, struck him, and sent him on his face—he looked across the road—he did not walk with his head down that I noticed; he may have done so—he walked aslant across the road.

GEORGE PERKINS . I am a labourer, and live at 37, Radnor Street, St. Luke's—I was standing on the pavement in Old Street at the time the old gentleman was knocked down—I saw the horse coming down the road; I ran across the road to stop him—the accident had then happened—the prisoner was hanging on to the reins as much as he could, to try and stop the horse, but he could not manage it, so I ran and caught hold of the bridle and stopped him—it was 100 yards from where the accident happened to where I stopped him.

Cross-examined. The horse was rather hard-mouthed; the prisoner was trying his best to stop it.

JOHN LAMBERT (Policeman G 94). I saw the van about 300 yards before the accident; it was then going at a steady trot, about six miles an hour—I then lost sight of him—I afterwards received information,

and went to Dr. Rogers's surgery, where I found the deceased lying on the sofa insensible—I got an ambulance and took him to Bartholomew's Hospital—I saw the prisoner at the surgery; he was sober.

GEORGE LEE WELLS . I was house surgeon at St. Bartholomew's Hospital when the deceased was brought there—he was then alive—I examined him—I found a compound fracture of both bones of the left leg, excessive bruising about the right elbow, and other injuries in the right parietal region—he was unconscious; he never recovered conaciousness—he died on the 24 th—I made a post-mortem—I then found the base of the skull was fractured, and laceration of the brain substance in the immediate neighbourhood of the fracture, and effusion of blood on the brain—the laceration and compression resulting from the fracture were the cause of death.

WILLIAM BALES (Policeman G 117). I was called to Mr. Rogers's surgery, and took the prisoner into custody—I said, "You will have to go with me to the police-station"—he said, "Why, what for? I could not help it; it was a pure accident; I tried to pull up, and could not; I then pulled on one side, and the wheels went over his legs."

Cross-examined. He was perfectly sober.

BRIDGET MCGARRY . I am the widow of Cormack Thomas McGarry—he was 74 years of ago—he was a labourer in the building line, and lived at 13, New Street, St. Luke's—he was not at all deaf, and his sight was good—on the day in question he had just left me and gone over to the Catholic church in Bunhill Row to receive some money for tickets he had sold—about 10 minutes afterwards I was sent for to the doctor's, and found him there suffering from injuries he had received—he had been a teetotaler for 33 years.

MR. GILL called the following witnesses for the defence:—

SARAH HERSEE . I am a bookfolder, and live at 11, Beckford Square, Old Street—on this Saturday evening I was standing at the top of Beckford Square, nearly opposite New Street, and saw an Apollinaris van coming along—I heard the driver call out, "Hi, hi!"—I looked to see what he was calling to, and saw the old gentleman crossing the road with his head down, and he seemed very feeble—the horse was then trotting along—I saw the driver pull the reins up, and he seemed to pull to the right, and the horse's head knocked the old gentleman—lots of people shouted, and the horse seemed to take fright, and went right across to the right—they hung on to the horse and stopped it—I do not know the gentleman at all—I afterwards went to the police-station, and then gave evidence before the Coroner—I did not see the prisoner strike the horse or attempt to urge it on; I saw him pull it up with the reins in his hand.

Cross-examined. The horse's head struck the old man as he was crossing—the other side of the road was clear—there were two vans in front of this van on the left-hand side—the prisoner could have easily pulled on the off side—the horse galloped after the deceased fell, he seemed to start and gallop on—I am quite sure it was not galloping when it knocked the gentleman down—I am nearly sure that it was the driver that called out "Hi, hi!"—the van was about five or six yards from the deceased when I first saw it.

HENRY NIBBS . I am a van boy in the employment of Mr. Finch, and have been for about 12 months—on this Saturday afternoon I was with

the prisoner on the van—we had been delivering Apollinaris, and were going home between 6 and 7 o'clock—we came along Old Street—we stopped near St. Luke's Church; the prisoner went down White Cross Street to buy some meat; he came back—I was sitting beside him—we came along on the near side at a pace of about five miles an hour—we started at a walk and went into a trot when we got on to the near side—I saw the old gentleman crossing the road from the near kerb; we were just in front of him—he was walking with his hands down and his head down—directly I caught sight of him I halloaed out "Hi!"—both of us said "Hi!" twice—he took no notice, he seemed to be deaf—the prisoner snatched up the reins, and the sudden jerk seemed to startle the horse—the near side shaft struck him, and he fell—I heard persons shout behind us—the halloaing and the jolt of the van made the horse go faster than before, and it went over to the other side of the road—directly the prisoner saw the old gentleman he pulled the off rein—he did not strike the horse or urge it on—he never tried to get away—he was doing all he could to stop it—it is rather a hard-mouthed horse.

Cross-examined. We only had two empty crates in the cart, they were very light—we generally leave off work about the same time—we were not galloping home—I am quite sure the prisoner did not strike the horse at all; we had a whip, but it had no thong to it, only the stick—the horse did not gallop at all, not at any time, neither before or after the accident—there were no vehicles about at the time that I noticed, I did not see any—we were going about five miles an hour.

THOMAS EVANS BRYETT . I live at 143, Old Street—on this Saturday I was at my shop door, which is about 15 yards from New Street—I saw the Apollinaris van coming along—I saw two vans in front of it loaded with old building materials, they were going in the direction of Shore-ditch, both on the near side—I saw the old gentleman in the road crossing behind the two vans—I heard the carman shout out for him to get out of the way—he took no notice of it—the van was about three yards from him when I first saw it—he was about two yards from the kerb, he walked straight on with his head down—he was struck by the shaft—I heard people shout, especially the women—that startled the horse, and it bolted—the carman tried all he could to stop it, but could not—one man ran and took hold of the horse's head and stopped it—I never saw the prisoner before—I have been in Old Street 19 years.

Cross-examined. The horse did not gallop after the knocking down, it was a very fast trot—it might have gone on a gallop, I can't say, there were two vans in front—the road was perfectly clear on each side of the old gentleman.

The prisoner received a good character.


NEW COURT.—Wednesday and Thursday, September 16th and 17th, 1885.

Before Mr. Recorder.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-828
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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831. GEORGE RADNESS STOCKTON (26), Unlawfully obtaining by false pretences on 14th November, 1884, 200l. from Richard Newham Cole, and other sums on other days amounting to 850l. Other Counts for mutilating the books of his employers.

MESSRS. POLAND and GRAIN Prosecuted; MR. BESLEY Defended.

FREDERICK JOHN COOPER . I live at 131, Piccadilly, and keep a very considerable account at Messrs. Martin's Bank—this is my pass-book, I only have it every three months—I see in it that on 14th November I am debited "Mills 200l."—I did not draw such a cheque on or about that date, and I have never received that amount—all my cheques are returned in the pocket of the pass-book, and I generally compare them with the counterfoils—no such cheque has been returned to me by the bank—on 1st January, 1885, I am debited "Mills 300l."—I drew no such cheque, I have not received the money, and no such cheque came back from the bank—on March 4th I am debited "Smith 350l."—I drew no such cheque nor has it come back to me, nor have I received the money—when I returned my pass-book I did not receive it again till the bank wrote to me about it in consequence of these matters.

Cross-examined. I draw my cheques on cheque forms stamped with the same number all through the book, but it has a letter also.

MR. HANSARD. I am manager at Martin's Bank—the prisoner was a clerk there from 1881 up to about 4th May last, when he was discharged—his salary was 120l. a year—he worked at a special desk in the morning; he was one of the country clearers—we have three cashiers in the bank; Mr. Cole is the third cashier, and the prisoner sat behind him in November, January, February, and March—each cashier is provided with a counter cash-book, and those books when not in use were kept in a box on wheels under the counter—the wheels are merely in case of fire—the pass-books and paid cheques are kept in lettered drawers at another counter, which the public had no access to, but all the clerks had—when a cheque is presented at the counter the paying cashier enters the name of the drawer, the amount, and the mode in which the amount is paid, with the amount, number, and date of each note; he then obliterates the signature and places the cheque cancelled on a file in front of another clerk, who enters it in the cash-book—the cheques are then turned down into a box and taken away by the ledger clerk, who sorts them and posts them in the ledger to each customer's account, and on the same day they are fetched away by the pass-book clerk and entered in the customer's pass-book if it is in the house; if not, they are sorted between perpendicular cards, and remain there till the customer sends his pass-book—we always put the cheques in the pocket of the pass-book—we have a system of keeping house by which on week days a certain number of the junior clerks have to stop after business hours, nominally until 9, but they sometimes ask the night porter to come on between 7 and 8 instead of 9 o'clock, and on Sundays the clerk stops all day, and has access to the whole of the premises, in fact he is there to watch them—the prisoner took his turn on Sundays, but not on week days—Mr. Cooper has kept an account there for many years; he was not very

frequent in sending for his pass-book—there are three cash-books, and the cash-book of that date is mislaid; the other two are in use, but I can send for them—I have examined them both, and find a mutilation in them on November 14th—the pages are not printed, but there are consecutive dates at the top—Mr. Cole kept the counter cash-book on November 14th—on 21st January, 1885, I find a mutilation in the counter cash-book, and the same with a jagged edge on March 4th—I find no mutilation in the other two counter cash-books on that date—we keep a book which records the stock of notes which we have in hand at the end of a business day, showing the amounts and numbers, so that we know what the stock of notes is in the morning—we call it the stock note-book—Mr. Cole, the chief cashier, keeps it.

GORDON C. MILADO . I made all these entries on 14th November, 1884, and 21st January, and Wednesday, March 4th, 1885, from the vouchers, and cheques, and debits on the file—sometimes a customer is debited on the file with commission—the entries are, 14th Nov., Cooper, 200l.; 21st Jan., F. J. Cooper, self, 300l.; and March 4th, Smith, 350l.—I have only the names of the drawers—unless there had been documents on the file on those dates there would have been no entry of Cooper's name.

Cross-examined. I am not limited to customers C., D., E., I write them indiscriminately—other clerks do not do the same thing—I keep the book solely of cheques paid across the counter only, I have nothing to do with the clearing house—there might be debits for calls on shares and deposits on applications for loans, without cheques, and if they were put on my file I should enter them as if they were payments across the counter—there is also a J. Cooper and a W. W. Cooper or W. H. Cooper.

Re-examined. The ordinary entries are cheques paid across the counter, and if they bear a customer's signature they would be put on the file—a customer coming and seeing the manager would be an exceptional matter—one of the managing clerks would write out the debit memorandum.

MR. HANSARD (Continued). This 100l. note was paid out of our bank on November 14th, 1884—it is endorsed "H. Johnson, 61, Jermyn Street, St. James's" in the prisoner's writing to the best of my belief—the 50l. note, 60,401, was issued from our bank on 14th November, 1884; it is endorsed "G. Gooderich, Devonshire Castle, Holloway," in the prisoner's writing to the best of my belief—these five 50l. notes, 18,539 and 25,937 to' 40 inclusive, left our bank on 21st January, 1885—on the face of the first is written "H. Hill, 59, Bramley Road;" and on the face of the two next "H. Nuttall, Ship Tavern, Kennington Road;" on the face of 25,939 and 25,940 is written "J. Sampson, 12, King Street, Camden Town"—these three 100l. notes, 17,727, 17,728, and 17,729, left our bank on March 4th—on the face of 17,727 is written "E. Stevenson, King's Head. Walworth Road, S.E."—on the face of 17,728 "S. Fredericks, Bedford Arms, Arlington Road, N.;" and on the face of 17,729 "Hugh Lloyd, 99, Jermyn Street, St. James's;" all those notes were given for Mr. Cooper's three cheques—this (produced) is the country clearing book kept by the prisoner, it appears to be all written by him—these letters A B C and D, and this envelope Aa, and this memorandum Bb, are all in the prisoner's writing—my attention was first called to this matter about April 7th or 8th—I gave information to the police about the prisoner before going to Messrs. Humphreys, and

gave them instructions—the police acted under Messrs. Humphrey's instructions—the inquiries of the police did not lead us to discharge the prisoner.

Cross-examined. The prisoner knew of the occurrences in the bank, it was general knowledge, and he had to help in looking up the work—inquiries were made of him—when we found that pages were missing we set a clerk to mark off the places, and then we discovered that cheques were missing which were not recorded in the cashier's book, and that Mr. Cooper's cheques, which ought to have been in the house, had been abstracted—we found that out almost at once—the prisoner knew that cheques were missing—we commenced on April 7th when Mr. Cole first called our attention to a leaf being torn out of the book—Mr. Cooper had had his pass-book for some time, and therefore it was not written up, and the cheques ought to have been in our possession—their dates were 21st January and March 4th—we made no personal charge against the prisoner and gave him no reason for his discharge, except that we did not require his services any longer, and we gave him a month's salary on May 4th in lieu of notice; we acted under the advice of our solicitors—there are 27 clerks in the bank—the prisoner has been there since May, 1881—on 14th November he was doing duty which did not require him to pay any money over the counter, he had no authority to pay cheques—the same answers apply to January and 4th March—the night porter might come as early as 7 p.m. if the clerk asked him, he would very likely get a tip for doing so—if the clerk did not so arrange he would be there from 5.30 to 9 o'clock alone—on Sundays the man who attended there would come when the night porter went off—I think the night porter came on at 9 and went off at 9—dinner was provided for the clerk on Sundays, and he was allowed to have a companion—clerks who kept house were allowed to change their Sundays one with another—there was no deficiency in money, but there was a deficiency of 850l. in cheques—my saying that note 40,861 left the bank on that date depends on the correctness of the entries—the notes were there in the morning and not in the evening—the strongest case of the prisoner's writing is this, "H. Johnson, 61, Jermyn Street," I have not the least doubt that that is his writing; it is done, I believe with a quill pen and with upright letters, his usual writing is diagonal—I think the word "John" in "St. John's Wood" on this envelope is the same as the J in "Johnson"—there is hardly any loop to the "e" in Jermyn Street, and in the two "o's" the stroke is blotted together, but not absolutely closed. (The witness pointed out several features of resemblance between the writing on the notes and the prisoner's writing.) I think all these are written by the same person, but some are written with a steel pen and others with the back of a pen—I admit that the G's in "Gooderich" and "Grove Road" are different.

Re-examined. I have been 24 years in the banking business—I have seen a great deal of the prisoner's writing—I have not the least doubt that this "H. Johnson, 61, Jermyn Street," is his, but it is perpendicular—to the best of my knowledge this "Gooderich," "Castle," and "Holloway" are his writing—I speak from my general knowledge—there is no record whether Mr. Cooper's pass-book went out after 19th November—it is made up to 6th December—if these had been regular transactions the cheques for 300l. and 350l. would have been in the pass-book, which

had not been returned when the discovery took place—a search was made and the cheques could not be found—our cash was all balanced, there—fore our accounts could not have been right on 14th November, except on the assumption that these amounts had been paid out.

By the COURT. All these notes have writing on them, because they were changed at the Bank of England; you are always requested to write on them there.

WILLIAM HARRIS HAYES . I am ledger clerk in Martin's Bank—it is part of my duty to enter from the cheques themselves when on the file into the ledger—on 14th November a cheque for 200l. is debited to Mr. Cooper's account—this is my entry made from the cheque itself—on 21st January I have an entry of 300l. to the debit of Mr. Cooper's account—I am able to say that I saw the cheque and made the entry from it—on 4th March I find an entry in my own writing of 350l. debited to Mr. Cooper's account—I made that from the cheque itself.

Cross-examined. I have put the name of Mills in the ledger on 14th November—I should say that that represents a cheque, and not a debit slip—I do not often make a mistake in reading the name—I should not read "Self" as "Mills," or "Mills" as "Self"—I know no one named Mills—I find an entry in the ledger on 19th July, "Self, 350l."—I have pencilled out the balance in his favour of 300l. after 4th March; that is done every fortnight—the book is made up from the vouchers themselves, and they are called over afterwards, but this would not be called over unless there was any mistake—4th March is a corrected date written over another; I began to write March 3rd—I did not copy the word "Smith" from the cash-book—I do not copy from the cash-book when I am in a hurry.

ARTHUR JOHN LAWFORD . I am the pass-book clerk at Messrs. Martin's—it is my duty to enter in the customers' pass-books the cheques which are paid from the cheques themselves—I find 200l. debited to Mr. Cooper's account on 14th November in my writing—I did not enter that from the cheque, but from the cash-book, because the cheque was missing—that was 6th December or 8th.

Cross-examined. This 14th November appears out of order after 3rd December—Mr. Cooper received his pass-book on 8th December—he did not receive it again at the end of the year—"8th December" is not my writing, all after 14th November is written by another clerk—this "Mills, 200l. " is the last entry I made—that was between the 6th and 8th December—the pass-book came back on 6th December—no balance was struck when I sent the book out—I verified this 200l. by the cash-book, and that is how it got in.

Re-examined. If the cheque had been in existence it would have been in its proper order, and when I found it out I made the entry.

RICHARD NEWNHAM COLE . I am chief cashier at Messrs. Martin's bank—this is the bank-note stock book, in which I make an entry daily of all the notes in the till of the bank—this 100l. note, 40861, was in the till of the bank on the morning of 14th November, 1884, when we commenced business, and it was not there at night—on the morning of 21st January there were five 50l. notes in the bank, and they were not there in the evening—these five 100l. notes, 17727, '28, and '29, were in the bank on the morning of 4th March, 1885, and not there in the evening.

WILLIAM HENRY COLE . I am the son of the last witness, and am a

clerk in the bank—on the morning of 14th November I went to the Bank of England and got some notes, which I entered in a book—one of them was a 50l. note, No. 60401—I took them to Martin's bank.

RICHARD NEWNHAM COLE (Continued). Looking at this note I can say that it was not in the bank on the evening of 14th November, 1884.

Cross-examined. The note 40861 came in on the morning of the 14th—here is my entry of it, which I made from the note itself about 11 o'clock that morning—when the day's business is over I take the numbers of the notes still remaining unpaid—this is the entry—I made an entry of it again in the evening from the note itself—I put down the date of each note—they are locked up at night, and during the day they are under the control of the cashiers—50l. notes are far more common than 100l. notes—I have no entry at the end of the day of the note my son has spoken of; it was missing—this 5l. note, 18539, of 21st January, 1885, came into the bank on 16th January; it was there on the 16th, 17th, and 18th; the 19th was Sunday, and on the 20th and 21st it was not there—the date I put on it was 26th May—it was part of a parcel of 40 50l. notes, beginning at 18450, all consecutive but one—the 100l. note, 17727, came into the bank from the Bank of England, on the morning of 4th March, in a parcel of 20 100l. notes, from 17724 to 17743—17727, '28, and '29 did not appear next day—seven of those notes had gone on 4th March between the morning and the evening.

GEORGE ERNEST TIMPSON . I have been a clerk in Messrs. Martin's bank all the time the prisoner has been there—I have seen him write, and am well acquainted with his writing—this "H. Johnson, 61, Jermyn Street," on this 100l. note, 40861, is his writing to the best of my belief.

Cross-examined. Several notes were shown to me at the Bank of England about a week after the prisoner left, and I made up my mind almost immediately I saw it—I have compared a press copy of it with the prisoner's writing—the whole of it is very like, and the capital "J" particularly—there is no loop to the "e," it is like an i without a dot—I have no doubt whatever that this envelope is the prisoner's writing—one of the "e's" here is evidently written with a quill, and the other with a steel pen—the "o" is closed on the note and open on the envelope, there is a difference—there are two sorts of e's on the envelope; this one in "Jermyn Street" is like the one in "Blenheim Place" on the envelope.

JAMES GOODERICH . I am landlord of the Devonshire Castle, Holloway—the prisoner occasionally used my house of an evening—this "James Gooderich, Devonshire Castle, Holloway," on this 50l. note, 60401, is not my writing—I know nothing about it.

JAMES NUTTALL . I keep the Ship Tavern, Kennington Road—I spell my name with two t's—this "H. Nutall, Ship Tavern, Kennington Road," on these two 50l. notes, 29737 and '38, is not my writing—I know nothing of the two notes.

EDMUND STEPHENSON . I keep the King's Head, Walworth Road—this 100l. note, 17727, has my name on it, but it is not written by me.

EDWIN MCLAREN . I keep the Beresford Arms, Walworth—my name and address is on these four 10l. notes, but I know nothing about them. (Nos. 00395, '6, '7, and '8.)

HENRY KAHN . I am a clerk in the Issue Department, Bank of England—on 13th March I changed a 100l. note, No. 17728—it had on it, "S.

Fredericks, Bedford Road, Camden Town"—I gave for it 60l. in gold and these four 10l. notes, 00395, '6, '7, and '8—we always require the name to be written on.

GEORGE FREDERICKS . I used to keep the Bedford Music-hall, Arlington Road, Camden Town—I know nothing about the 100l. note which bears my name.

MR. ACKMAN. I am a clerk in the Bank of England—I paid two notes, Nos. 92128 and 92129, in the name of "Williams"—I gave three 5l. notes for 15 sovereigns on 11th March—the person gave his name "J. Williams, 27, Marylebone Place"—on 20th March I received 40 sovereigns in exchange for four 10l. notes, on all which was the name of McLaren. (Nos. 00396, '7, and '8.)

FREDERICK PERRY . I am night porter at Messrs. Martin's bank—I usually go on duty at 9 p.m. and remain till 7.30 a.m., when the day porter comes on—I have been doing that for two or three years—on 24th March, at 10 p.m., I heard the bell ring, went to the door, and saw the prisoner—he said, "Halloa, Perry"—I said, "Halloa"—he said, "Is there a parcel for me?"—I said, "No, not that I know of"—he said, "Well, I will just come in and have a look"—I let him in, knowing him as a clerk, and he went through the swing doors and behind the counter, opened a desk, shut it, and went to another one, and then to the desk which Mr. Hollis sits at—one gas light was burning—I was at the door, and a policeman spoke to me, Burgess, and I do not know what the prisoner did, but I heard him rustling the leaves of a book and pulling it about—I do not know what book it was, but there were only bank books there—I then heard a sound like the tearing of paper, and heard a drawer pulled out—no one was inside but him—he was inside 10 minutes or a quarter of an hour—I let him out—I did not notice any parcel—he has also come there four or five times between 9 and 12 p.m. between November last and March, and I let him in—I never noticed where he went—he has kept house on Sundays, but I do not remember any one visiting him—I have sometimes come before my time to oblige him.

Cross-examined. And to oblige other clerks—the earliest time I have come is 6 o'clock—I do not know the day of the week when this happened; it was not in April—I do not make notes when I am on duty, but I sometimes put down the names of gentlemen whom I oblige if they do not pay me—I did not smell matches when I heard the tearing of paper—I did not go in, as I had no suspicion.

HARRY BURGESS (City Policeman). On 24th March, about 10 p.m., I was on duty, and saw the prisoner at the door of Messrs. Martin's bank—he rang the bell, and Perry let him in—I was standing at the door speaking to Perry—he turned to the right—I heard the rustling of paper, and spoke to Perry about it—I did not see him leave—I knew that he was a bank clerk there.

Cross-examined. I made a note of the date next day, which is at the station—I did not report it to my superiors, but I spoke to the watchman about it at the time—I did not know that the clerk did not live there—the prisoner was farther from me than I am from you—there was enough light to see that he went and opened a desk—I heard he came to ask for a parcel, and when I found he did not live there I thought it important, as he came to examine the books at that time of night—I made the entry

at 11.30 next morning—I came off duty at 10 a.m.—there is nothing in my note about the rattling of paper.

THOMAS WILLIAM HART . I am night porter at Messrs. Martin's Bank—I go on duty at 9 p.m., and sometimes earlier—I know the prisoners as a clerk—one night at the end of January I went on duty at 8 o'clock, and found the prisoner and a mate, a friend, at the bank; they stayed a short time—one night in February, when on duty, the prisoner let me in; he said "I am going to hare a wash"—I went to my sitting-room, and heard him go through the wicket and say "Good night"—one night in March the prisoner came at 9 o'clock, after I was on duty, and said "I have left my coat"—he went through the wicket leading to the counter, and stayed five minutes—I was in my room and heard him go, he said "Good night."

ARTHUR DANIEL NICHOLAS . I am a clerk at Messrs. Martin's—one week day last February the prisoner told me that he understood it was his turn to keep house next Sunday; I said "It is my turn"—he said he had made arrangements with a friend to come, and wished I would change—he said he would rather keep my Sunday and his own as well, and he did so.

LOUIS FREDERIC WHITTICK . I am a clerk to Messrs. Cunard and Co., of St. Helens Place—on May 18th a man who I believe to be the prisoner came and took a double steerage ticket for George and Clara Dawson, including rail from London to Liverpool, price 9l. 5s.—this is the counter-part of the ticket—I was struck by the hurried way in which he took it, as passengers usually make inquiries—I do not know how the money was paid.

WILLIAM EDWARD WILSON HOARES . I am a clerk in Messrs. Barclay's Bank—Messrs. Cunard and Co. keep an account there—on 19th May they paid in 130l., among which there were two five-pound notes, 92128 and '29.

JAMES ANDERSON . I am secretary to a company at 50, Bedford Row—the prisoner had had loans from them—the last was 10l. on 28th March, 1884, when he gave me this promissory note for 11l. 5s.; he had paid prior to 14th November four instalments of 1l. each in repayment, and on 1st December he paid 4l.; 3l. 5s. is still due.

Cross-examined. We had the security of another name—he had to pay 1l. a month, and failed at the fifth month—we had to put it into a lawyer's hands, and he still owes 3l. 5s. and lawyer's fees.

WILLIAM JOHN WILD . I was clerk to Mr. Diprose, a money-lender, till Saturday last—he advanced the prisoner 7l. 10s. with interest, making 8l. 15s., on 23rd July, 1884, on a promissory note—it was repayable at 1l. 9s. 2d. a month—one instalment, which was due in October, was paid on 17th November—another was due 28th November, but on 27th November he called to pay it all off—Mr. Diprose gave him 10s. rebate—he paid the money, and I handed him the note.

Cross-examined. The note was signed by a friend, who was guarantee for him.

FREDERICK JOHN COOPER (Re-examined). I have had letters of credit abroad, and have had forms back, but beyond that I never drew money from the bank except by the ordinary cheque—I never gave a bill of exchange in my life.

Cross-examined. I have now got the counterfoils here of my cheques of November, 1884—I often tear out a cheque and don't fill up the counterfoil—I have a cheque here for 17l. on 18th November to Mr. Vaughan, and another on 12th November of 7l., for which there are no counterfoils—they are blank—there are not many blank counterfoils here—there is no entry on 27th November on the counterfoil of a cheque for 200l. to "Self," but I got that 200l. myself—if it was paid to any one else I should know who it was for—I only see one blank counterfoil—I do not always keep my cheque-book locked up—I have not lost several cheques.

NATHANIEL HEMMING . I am clerk to Messrs. Burgress and Cousins, solicitors, of Finsbury Circus—they acted for the prisoner in an action brought by Messrs. Richards, during which I received letters from the prisoner—here is one dated March 4th, 1885, and another April 7th, 1885—proceedings were taken in the Mayor's Court in 1884—judgment was recovered, and he had to pay 1l. a month—12l. is still owing.

Cross-examined. Small as the instalments were there was a difficulty in keeping them up.

WALTER OLIVER . I live at 43, Shakespeare Road, Stoke Newington—at the end of March or early in April the prisoner took rooms in my house at 1l. a week, and lived there with a woman, as Mr. and Mrs. Stockton—they left with their luggage on 22nd May, and said they were going to America.

ARTHUR BARTON (City Detective). I acted with another detective and watched the prisoner when he left the bank with another man on April 11th—they went to a public-house in Sherborne Lane, City, and from there I followed them to the Palsgrave and to the Gaiety Restaurant—on the 13th I watched him again—on the 18th I saw him with a woman, and watched to see whether he spent money—I watched him to theatres often—on the 22nd I saw him meet the female, and go to Finch's Wine Stores, Strand, and then to Charing Cross Refreshment Rooms—on the 25th I watched him having oysters at Sweeting's, and then to the Gaiety, and then to the Princess's Theatre, and on May 3rd to the Comedy.

Cross-examined. Wherever he went I went when I could—I went into four theatres—he was accompanied by a lady each time—they went to the pit, not to the stalls—I cannot say what money he Paid—I should think dining at Gatti's was the most expensive thing they did—they had two or three courses—I do not know what they paid.

HENRY COSTIN (City Detective). I received instructions to watch the prisoner—on May 18th I saw him go to Messrs. Cunard's and bring out a ticket—I have seen him go to the Devonshire Castle, kept by Mr. Goodwin—after he had been examined at the Mansion House, and was being removed in a cab to the House of Detention, he spoke to me—I was sitting in front of him—I had not been examined then—he said "Halloa, how are you?"—I said "All right; how are you?"—he said "Nicely, thanks; I suppose I shall get two years?"—I said "I don't know"—he said "There was a man sent from Barclay and Perkins's some time ago; he only got two years; it will be hard if they give me more than two years for 850l.; you have not been called yet?"—I said "I don't suppose I shall be."

Cross-examined. He is not a friend of mine—I was in plain clothes, but he knew I was a police officer—I was present when he was arrested

—I did not think I should be called—I repeated the conversation to Barton on the following Wednesday, but I did not make a note of it.

Re-examined. The jailer Smith at the Mansion House was present at the conversation—he took the prisoner to Clerkenwell—I reported the conversation to Mr. Humphreys a fortnight after, and he called me as a witness.

HENRY SMITH . I have been Usher at the Mansion House 11 years—on 8th June I took the prisoner to the House of Detention—he got into the cab and said to Costin "How are you?"—he said "All right, how are you?"—he said "All right; how do you think I shall get on?"—Costin said "I don't know"—he said "I should not think I shall get above two years; a clerk from Barclay and Perkins's only got two years for 1,000l., it will be hard if I get more for 850l."

Cross-examined. A great deal of evidence had been given then, but I can't say whether 850l. had been mentioned; it went through my mind at the time that he meant how he should get on if he were convicted.

JAMES BRETT (City Police Sergeant). I received a warrant for the prisoner's arrest, and on 2nd May I saw him with a woman in a cab in Stoke Newington—Costin stopped the cab, and the prisoner said "What is it?"—I said "I am a police officer, you are in my, custody; I will read the warrant to you presently"—he took this bag from his pocket and gave it to the woman; I got it from her after great resistance—it contained 4l. 10s. in gold, and this 5l. note (No. 92130)—I took her from the cab, and on the way to the station I read the warrant to the prisoner—he said "I never had a 100l. note in my life; what is it about?"—I said "You have heard what has taken place at Martin's?"—he said "Everybody knows that"—I searched him at the station and found 6l. 9s. 6 1/2 d. and a 5l. order on Brown Shipley, of New York, a pistol, a box of cartridges, two railway tickets from London to Liverpool, a double ticket for the ship Etruria from Liverpool to New York for George and Sarah Dawson—I also took from the cab a large new American trunk and a large black bag—I found in the trunk papers and letters, among which were letters Aa and Bb—the Etruria sailed the next day—I went to 61, Jermyn Street, but could find nobody named H. Johnson—I also inquired at 92, Jermyn Street for Hugh Lloyd—I did not go to the Devonshire Castle—I have made inquiries at 59, Bromley Road for H. Hill, but found no such person—I have also been to Camden Town.

Cross-examined. He was going away with 25l. 10s.—there was 9l. 10s. in the bag, and 6l. 10s. 6d. in his pocket and the order on Brown's—it was a bank bag—he was carrying all the money—the ticket was for steerage passengers.

RICHARD WHEATLEY WILLIAMS . I am a clerk at Messrs. Martin's, and know the prisoner's writing very well—this "H. Johnson, 61, Jermyn Street," on the 100l. note 40861 is his writing in my judgment, and so is this "Hugh Lloyd, 92, Jermyn Street," on this 100l. note 17729.

Cross-examined. This envelope Aa is undoubtedly in his writing—I do not find any difference in the two o's; they are closed in one case and open in the other—the "o" in "John's Wood" is almost closed—the two o's on the envelope are open, but I attach no importance to that—in one case it is endeavoured to be disguised, in the other it is written naturally, and in this case it is written more perpendicular—all that does not alter my opinion.

FREDERICK GEORGE NETHERCLIET . I have examined letters Aa, Bb, and a lot of writing in the counter clearing book, and the writing on all these bank-notes, and in my judgment the writing on the notes is the same as the prisoner's writing before me, but they are all disguised—I can point out reasons for my judgment.

Cross-examined. In my long experience I have had to deal with all sorts of juries, those who agreed with me, those who did not quite do so, and those who have gone against me—I maintain my opinion now conscientiously that I am invariably right—I have no doubt with regard to all these endorsements, I do not exclude any, I believe they are all written by the same hand.

Re-examined. Before giving my opinion I very carefully examined the notes and the undoubted writing—I was four hours at the Bank of England and two hours at home.

GEORGE SMITH INGLIS . I am an expert in writing—I have often been engaged by the Treasury and given evidence—I have examined the prisoner's writing in the counter clearing book and on this envelope, and have also examined these bank-notes and the fac-similes of the writing on them, and believe they are all written by one individual—I can trace similarities in all except one, "Hugh Lloyd, 92, Jermyn Street."

Cross-examined. I have not said that the "Hugh Jones" is not in the writing of the person who wrote the other endorsements, but I could not find out the points during the time I was examining; I cannot prove that one as I can prove the others—there is a general character about it—I have not had the same experience as Mr. Netherclift—Mr. Chabot, my predecessor, died in 1882—in my short experience I have not met with many juries who disbelieve me—there was one in the next Court, and the Jury wont in the teeth of your speech, though you backed me up as well as you could.

Re-examined. I studied the original writing very carefully, and afterwards went through the disputed writing, and give my opinion to the best of my judgment.

A. J. LAWFORD (Re-examined by MR. BESLEY ). All the entries under November 14th were made by another clerk—the last entry was made on December 6th, and those entries beginning December 8th I know nothing about—the entry of September 14th was made on December 6th.

GUILTY .— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

NEW COURT.—Thursday and Friday, September 17th and 18th, 1885.

Before Mr. Recorder.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-832
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

832. JOHN JONES (73) Unlawfully making certain false entries in the books of the Central Benefit Building Society.



DANIEL TOMKINS . I am a clerk in the office of the Registrar of Friendly Societies, Westminster—I produce the rules of the E. C. Benefit Building Societies—the 12th Society is the only one which has been registered under the Act of 1874—this (produced). is a copy of the rules of each Society—the 11th is not under the Act of 1874, but the rules were certified to the office on October 31st, 1874—the 12th was registered

on February 23rd. (The 23rd rule was here read, stating that Mr. J. Jones, the manager, should attend the meetings, keep the accounts and books, receive subscriptions, and pay all moneys into the bank, for a salary of 50l. per annum, and to be entitled to a vote as a Director, all money received by him to be paid in on or before the next subscription day.)

Cross-examined by MR. WILLIS. I will get the dates for you of the formation of the different Companies, and also of the London Societies for which Jones was the manager.

ARTHUR HENRY CAESAR . I am a chartered accountant, of 85, Gresham Street—my father was a shareholder in the 11th E. C. Building Society—he died on 25th September, 1875, but subscriptions were paid in respect of his share up to October, 1880, in which year I applied to the prisoner for paymont of the amount standing due to my father's estate, 147l.—I received nothing till 11th January, 1882, when I received from him 50l., it was by cheque to the best of my memory, and a second payment on 23rd March, 1882, of 97l., also by cheque as far as I remember—that wiped off the account as far as the principal was concerned—I received no other money from Jones in respect of that Society after that date, I only received these two sums—I did not receive 50l. from Jones in September, 1881, or 97l. in the same month, or any sum in March, 1882, in respect of the 12th E. C.—the 12th was started two years alter any father's death, and I never received any money in respect of that.

WILLIAM HENRY PRINGLE . I am a meat salesman, of 8, Tufnell Park Road, Holloway—I formerly held 11 shares in the 11th E. C. Building Society—I gave notice to withdraw my money in 1877, and received all that was due to me in that year—I had no connection with the Society after that—I did not receive 60l. from the Society in December, 1880.

HENRY JAMES WESTMORE . I live at 227, Brixton Road—in October, 1864, I became a member of the 11th E. C. Building Society, and in September, 1881, I gave notice to withdraw my money—I received two sums from the prisoner, 50l. and 119l., which closed the account as to the principal—I did not receive a further sum of 50l.

JAMES ANDREWS . I live at Margate—in, I think, 1875, I took 30 shares in the llth E. C. Building Society, some of which I mortgaged in exchange for an advance, and in March, 1882, I paid off the balance due on the mortgage to the Society—there was then 609l. 1s. due from me to the Society, for which I gave this cheque (produced). to the prisoner—he gave me back my mortgage with this receipt upon it: "The sums due to the Society have been paid by James Andrews, March, 1882"—I know the prisoner's writing perfectly well; this is his endorsement on my cheque.

JOHN WHYTE MELDRUM . I am chief clerk in the Bank of South Australia—in 1879 I borrowed some money from the llth E. C. Building Society; in March I owed them 304l. 9s. 6d., which I paid to the prisoner on 9th March, in notes and gold, in exchange for which he gave me an authority to the solicitors to hand back my mortgage—I went and received it from them; it was then signed by Mr. Stevens and Mr. Angle, two of the trustees of the Society.

CHARLES CRAWSAY . I am receiving cashier of the Threadneedle Street branch of the Consolidated Bank—the 11th E. C. Building Society had an account there, and the prisoner had a private account—on 10th March,

1882, the prisoner paid in to his private account this cheque for 609l. 1s. (produced).—this is his pass-book, in which that sum is credited to him—on 13th March, 1882, he paid in 305l. in notes and gold to his private account.

Cross-examined by MR. WILLIS. Jones has had an account there many years—several banking accounts for the East Central Building Societies were kept at our bank—the 11th E. C. has borrowed money of our firm—I find a credit of 607l. 15s. 6d. to the 11th E. C. Building Society on March 9th, 1882.

Re-examined. That was the last credit in 1882—I say that the Society has borrowed money of the bank because here is an entry here "Interest on loans"—that may have been on a previous date—the account did not practically cease in 1880—the amount in 1882 is continued on to 1883 and 1884—there are several entries after that to the credit of the Society.

JAMES BEUIST EVANS . I am a member of the 9th E. C. Building Society—I received an advance from them of 1,365l., which I repaid by monthly instalments—the last instalment, which wiped off the debt, was on April 27th, 1880—that closed my account with the Society—I never received an account of 100l. on 6th May, 1880, from them, or at any other time.

JAMES BAYLEY . I am a carrier, of Walthamstow—I was a shareholder in the 12th E. C. Building Society, and my daughter Emily also held a share—on 1st November, 1881, I received from the prisoner 27l. 12s., to pay off my daughter's share—I also received this memorandum from him showing how this amount was made up—I have received no second sum of 27l. 12s. from him; I have received nothing since that time.

EDMUND CHILD HAYNES . I am a solicitor, of New Square, Lincoln's Inn—my firm acted as solicitors to Mr. D. S. Kidd, of Whitechapel, who died in September, 1877—I and Mrs. Kidd were executors under his will—Mrs. Kidd died in February, 1880, and I have up to the present time been the sole legal representative of Mr. Kidd's estate—he was a share-holder in the E. C. Building Society, but whether it was the 11th or not I cannot say—I applied to the prisoner, by letter for payment of the money due to Mr. Kidd, but did not receive any—I did not, in September, 1881, receive 80l. for Mr. Kidd; or in December, 1881, another 80l.; or in July, 1882, 146l. and 54l. 11s.—I never received any of these sums—I did not lend or make an advance of 100l. to the 8th E. C. Building Society—I understood there was about 120l. due, and we applied to Mr. Jones day by day for it—at last I said if we could get 100l. we would take it, but no money was ever paid to us.

Cross-examined. I do not know whether it was in July, 1882, that I was applying for the 100l.—I never paid him 100l.—if he has charged himself with it I have not seen it.

JOSEPH ALEXANDER GARDNER . I am clerk to Theodore Jones, Hill, and Co., chartered accountants—I manage the liquidation matters—the affairs of the 4th, 5th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th E. C. Societies, and the 9th London, were placed in my hands, and with the exception of the 12th, orders have been made to wind them up, and proceedings are now pending to wind up the 12th—I have investigated the accounts of all these Societies—the total deficiency is about 5,000l.—I have received no assets—I found that in each of these Societies there was kept a cash-book and general ledger and a share ledger—I know the prisoner's writing—these books are nearly always entered by him—the share ledger should

show the number of shares held by each person, and the amounts paid off by them—the cash-book and general ledger appear to have been audited year by year, but the share ledger is quite the contrary—when a book is audited this certificate is written by Mr. Jones and signed by the auditors, and the ticks are all through the books—there are no ticks to show that the auditors have looked at the share ledger—the share ledger of the 11th E. C. Society shows that Mr. Caesar paid 147l. in respect of shares between 1875 and 1881, and also that that sum was repaid in payments of 50l. and 97l., the last payment being made in March, 1882, closing the account—in the cash-book there is 50l. and 95l. paid to Mr. Caesar in September, 1881, in the prisoner's handwriting, and in February, 1882, there is a further entry of a payment of 97l. to Mr. Caesar, and in December, 1882, a further sum of 50l., showing a total of 292l. paid to Mr. Caesar—the 12th E. C. Society was not formed till February, 1876, and I find in their cash-book a sum of 97l. as having been paid to Mr. Caesar in March, 1882, and on looking at the share ledger I find that he never was a shareholder in that Society—there is no entry of his name—the share ledger of the 11th Society shows that in 1877 210l. was due to Mr. Pringle, and it also shows that it was paid in 1877—no entry appears in the share ledger after that—the account appears to have been closed then—the cash-book of that Society shown that 60l. was paid to Pringle in 1880—the share ledger shows that in September, 1881, Mr. Westmoor's account was closed by a payment to him of 50l. and 119l.—there was nothing further due to him except the bonus—I find these two sums properly entered in the cash-book, and also that a further sum of 13l. was paid to him in November of the same year—I find by the share ledger that Mr. Andrews owed to the 11th Society in March, 1882, 609l. 1s.—all the books show that amount as still owing—when I investigated the books I called upon the prisoner to explain this, and he simply made this note in the book in my presence: "The balance, 465l., to be debited to me, J. Jones"—he had no explanation except that he had received the money and had not accounted for it—465l. was the principal; the 609l. was the amount with the interest at 4s. per month—the snare ledger shows that Mr. Meldrum owed the Society 304l. 9s. 6d., as nearly as we could arrive at the amount, and the books show it as still owing—I called the prisoner's attention to that at the same time, and he could offer no explanation, only that he had received it and not accounted for it—this payment of 607l. in the 11th Society's pass-book on 9th March has nothing to do with the payments of Andrews and Meldrum; it was for a debt of the Society with the Consolidated Bank—the share ledger of the 9th Society states that Mr. Evans paid off the whole of his indebtedness by the 27th April, 1880; that a further sum of 100l. 10s. was advanced to him—there is no date—I also find in the cash-book in June, 1880, a further advance under the head of subscription, of 100l. 10s. to Mr. Evans—Miss Emily Bailey was a shareholder in the 12th Society—I find by the share ledger that her account was closed by the payment to her of 27l. 12s. in November, 1881—there is no further entry in the share ledger whatever—in turning to the cash-book of the 12th E. C. I find that sum of 27l. 12s. properly credited to Miss Bailey in September, 1881—the two books do not agree—one is September and the other October, as though two sums were paid to her—I find Mr. Kidd was a shareholder in the 8th and the 11th Societies—

146l. was due to him from the 8th in 1877—that sum has been posted in the general ledger and cash-book as having been paid to him—I also find in the cash-book the sum of 54l. as having been paid to Mr. Kidd in July, 1882—I also find in the general ledger, at the top of the page under July, 1882, these words, "By agreed loan 100l. paid to the executors of D. S. Kidd"—that purports to be a loan by them to the Society—there is also another entry in the cash-book corresponding to that—60l. principal was due to Mr. Kidd when he died in 1877, from the 11th E. C. Building Society—the share ledger shows that that amount was paid in one payment in September, 1881—the cash-book also shows that a further sum of 80l. was paid to Kidd in September, 1881—taking all the books of the Society 260l. 11s. was apparently paid to Kidd, for which the Society is debited—I have investigated the books—1,180l. is due from the prisoner alone—I pointed out the items to him—he went through them one by one, and admitted the irregularities and the writing in the books—I heard him examined in the liquidation upon this particular point—I had this conversation with him about the same time.

Cross-examined by MR. WILLIS. I received the order to wind-up the 5th and 7th E. C. Societies and the 9th London about March this year—the proceedings were before the Chief Clerk in Vice-Chancellor Bacon's Court—our investigation has long been finished—the Chief Clerk goes into the accounts—I don't think any one of them are finished yet—I don't know that as the end of his inquiries in the 7th Society, that Mr. Jones had advanced 1,677l. for that Society—I do not know that the books of the 12th Society show an advance by Mr. Jones in the year '82 of a large sum over and beyond what he had received; quite the contrary—I find that the first part of the bookkeeping is in the prisoner's writing; many entries are in a different writing; it is all the prisoner's writing in '81 and '82—I find in the share-ledger of the 9th Society to Mr. John Evans the total of 2,440l. 10s., it should be 2,340l. 10s.; there is an error of 100l. in the addition—to rectify that an entry of 100l. is requisite, so that on 6th June a subscription of 100l. is entered in the cash-book, but it does not say that Mr. Evans paid it—that does not bring it back to the same thing, instead of correcting the addition—I find in Pringle's account that the prisoner debits himself with having received two sums of 186l. and 465l.—I called his attention to Andrews's case when going through this share-ledger, and he told me that had been paid off, and he said the same with Meldrum's; he admitted his responsibility—I understood in his bankruptcy that he proved for 1,180l. 13s. 8d., on 2nd April, 1885—this (produced). is the list of errors and mistakes—this rather shaky writing is the prisoner's—I got him to enter in the books to his own debit the items which there was a mistake about, and then afterwards a clerk from the office of the official liquidator entered in pencil Andrews and Meldrum, which makes up the amount of the proof, 1,180l. 13s. 8d.

Re-examined. The 11th E. C. has no assets, or the 9th and 10th—the 4th and 5th have doubtful assets—the 4th has got a leasehold house at Balham, valued at 200l.; it has been unlet several years—the other asset is a slate-quarry in Wales; the prisoner's trustee claims that—the lease has between three and four more years to run—as far as the cash-book is concerned, it appears that only 2,340l. was paid by Evans, and in addition to that we have got this 100l.—the cash deficiency of the 9th E. C. is 329l. 2s. 3d., and the 10th is 282l. 16s. 10d., and the 12th is

1,211l. 0s. 2d., and in the 5th is 1,149l. 4s. 8d.—the books showed a balance due to the prisoner at first, but on investigation they showed a balance due from him to the Society—there are only two shareholders in the 5th unsatisfied, but there are numerous creditors—there are two or three in the 4th, about four in the 8th, two or three in the 9th, two or three in the 10th, and about fifteen at least in the 12th, and about fifteen in the 11th—there are about 40 or 50 shareholders in each Society, but the 9th London has got very few, just one or two.

Re-examined. These are the names of the subscribers—there are numbers of creditors besides persons who have lent money; one has lent 400l. in the 4th Society.

HENRY JOHN LESLIE . I am an accountant, of 4, Coleman Street, and trustee in the prisoner's bankruptcy—he presented his petition himself in November, 1884—the total amount of debts is 21,510l.—I have investigated the assets—what have been sold fetched 224l. 9s. 6d.—a considerable part of the assets mentioned as fully secured have been sold, and at present the balance due to the Society is 360l.—the total value of assets realised is 600l., and there is a slate-quarry in Wales which belongs to the Society, but is worth nothing—there is a conveyance of it to Jones; the lease has three years to run—one of my clerks has been down to the quarry.

Cross-examined by MR. GRAIN. Under the new Act I have to give security as trustee by the Director of the Board of Trade—I have given them 1,000l. security in this case; they fixed the amount—he represented his creditors fully secured as 15,682l., and the value of the securities at 24,000l. added, leaving 8,600l. to go to the assets side—he makes his liability expected to rank on the estate 9,383l., and he shows assets of about 9,000l., showing on his own estimate about 20s. in the pound—I had to inquire as trustee what the alleged securities were—I find that he is the holder of a large number of houses, a number of which are mortgaged and lodged with his secured creditors, on which he estimated a receipt of 8,000l.—he has a large quantity of freehold ground-rents at Norwood, all of which he has mortgaged, which are put down in his statement of affairs quite properly, subject to the equities—some of the property has been sold privately—these 13 lots (Looking at a bill). are part of it; that was a compulsory sale, the mortgagee selling under power of sale, and I took anything I could get—that was in July last, after the bankruptcy—the rent was in arrear—some freehold property which was mortgaged to the Liverpool, London, and Globe Insurance Company was sold by private contract—I fancy that was the houses at Norwood—the major part is sold; he has held it for many years—one or two mortgages are eight or ten years old, and some older still—under the new Act the receiver inquires into the affairs; he has to go before an examiner—this is the receiver's report (produced).

Re-examined. I do not estimate that there will be 20s. in the pound—I have not sold the estate yet—it has only been in my hands since June—I have not offered to sell the slate-quarry for 500l.—I have had an offer of 500l. for it—it is impossible to say what the creditors will get, as the equities may turn out to be worth nothing, and the quarry nothing, and that would only leave about 600l.—I don't think they expect to get much—the personal liabilities amount to 1,129l.—I don't think these Societies are entered as creditors, but he says "Under a guarantee by the bank

to certain building societies of which I am manager"—he says that that has nothing to do with the deficiency we have been speaking of to-day—I have no reason to suppose that he has paid sixpence towards these guarantees, but he has disclosed them as liabilities.

JAMES DALTON . I am clerk to Messrs. Phelps, Sedgwick, and Biddle—I was present at the Bankruptcy Court at the prisoner's public examination on 8th May by Mr. Leslie, a trustee—I saw him sworn, and heard his evidence—this is an office copy of it—the note was taken by Mr. Haslett, an officer of the Court.

EDITH JONES . I reside at Enmore Park, South Norwood—I am the prisoner's daughter—I have a sister Emily who is ill in bed—Mr. Moss has the deed of gift to her (produced).—this is my father's signature to it—that signature to the declaration is my sister Alice's. (Read: Deed of Gift of 12th January, 1883, from the prisoner to hit eldest daughter Emily Jones in consideration of natural love and affection, of all the prisoner's freehold property at Enmore Park. Signed Emily Bennett and J. E. Jones. Also a declaration that the deed created no trust, signed by the prisoner and Alice and Edith Jones. Also the public examination of John Jones on 8th May.)

Witnesses for the Defence.

EDWIN JAMES FARRIES . I am an accountant—the last few days I have examined the prisoner's books, but I have not had time to examine the books of all the Societies' accounts to 10th March—from cheques and notes in the prisoner's possession I find in 1880 the moneys of nearly all the Societies have been paid by the prisoner into his private banking account, and all payments to members, directors, and others have been paid from his private account—in some of the Societies very few members were left, and when the Societies got to the end of their term it was difficult to get persons to act as directors, and to manage the affairs of the Society—Pringle's account in 11th East Central was kept by Jones in another portion of the cash-book called the general cash-book—he had made Journal entries instead of cash entries—pringle was paid off in 1877, but I find entries in 1880 on both sides of the account to Pringle, 218l. 12s. 6d., page 297—that should have been a journal entry, because the amount is carried to the deposit share account, as possibly it might have to be dealt with hereafter—when members draw a deposit account is kept for some one else to take up—the entry of Kidd in the 8th Society is shown in the cash-book as though the prisoner received 100l., although he never received it in July, 1882—the prisoner has also entered subscriptions 146l. and interest to July, 1882, 14l. 12s., which the Kidds would be entitled to if they had taken the whole in the cash-book as payments instead of making a journal entry, and crediting 100l. and carrying the amount to the ledger—with regard to Evans, I found an error in the casting of 100l.—Evans had paid 2,340l., Jones had made it 2,440l. in the cash-book of June, 1880—the casting should have been altered, but Jones had made a debit entry; then he has made a further mistake of 100l. 10s. fur 10s. in the cash-book—in the 12th Society Bailey is entered twice, and instead of 27l. 12s. is entered 14l. 7s. 6d. in January, February, and March, 1882—the entries look as if they were made at one time—Caesar said he only received 50l. in January, 1882, and 97l. in March, 1882, but I find in the 11th Society those payments repeated in December and February—I do not find them in January and March—50l. and 90l. are entered in September—those are the only entries I find to Caesar—I

do not find any errors in the additions and totals—I find no erasures—in the 11th East Central on 9th March he debits himself with 630l. in respect of his own shares—I find he made advances from his own account in 1882 to about 6,500l.—he has treated the Societies as one, and the sheets show that moneys passed from one to the other—I have a copy of V. C. Bacon's Chief Cleric's report, and a copy of the account gone through by the official liquidator, showing the balance due to Jones on winding up the 7th East Central Society of 1,600l., also the affidavit to which the account is an exhibit—in November, 1882, Jones had advanced to the 12th Society 800l., and taking the whole book for 1882 he had advanced in April 1,900l.; July, 2,800l.; November, 2,350l.; and December, 2,800l. to 3,000l.—deducting the 1,100l. odd, which were not found, charged in this way there would then be still 2,000l. during that year advanced by Jones including the 7th Society—Jones has been receiving the moneys more or less since 1880, and meeting the whole of the obligations—the entries in the books are his own, and appear to be entered at irregular periods—I have found no impropriety in respect of the cash payment of subscriptions which Jones has received—he has made one portion of the cash-book do duty for another portion of the cash-book and journal—there is no difficulty in ascertaining the payments, especially in respect of withdrawals—you have only to refer to the share ledger—none of the Societies were wound up by the Chief Clerk—I had an accountant to assist me.

Cross-examined. I have not examined the books to see if the auditors have looked at the share ledger—I see ticks—I cannot say whose they are—I do not see any ticks in the subscriptions received—in the general ledger there are ticks—an amount paid over twice would arouse my curiosity—I saw the books of the 12th Society at Mr. Phelps's offices—I have not gone through the books of the 7th Society—my Knowledge of the 1,600l. balance is from the report of the Chief Clerk and the affidavit made afterwards in support of the claim—in the 10th Society I found'a debit balance in September, 1878, and another in September, 1879—I am not able to say whether Mr. Gardner's figures are correct—Jones stupidly admits 1,180l. is due to the 11tb Society—the entries are very few in the pass-book—few sums are paid to the credit of the account in 1882-3-4—all the payments are interest on loans—the 609l. is not entered as received from Andrews—the 50l. is entered twice as a payment to Westmore—that affects the balance of the Society; no doubt it reduces it—Bailey's entry of 27l. 12s. appears twice over—in the inner margin is 27l. 12s., and in the other 14l. 7s. 6d.—that simply shows the subscriptions—various sums have been entered as paid to Kidd amounting to 360l., from the two Societies—giving him credit for 100l. loan which he debits himself with, there is still a balance of 260l. 11s.—that is the effect of the entries to reduce the balance of the Society to that amount—in addition to 218l. 12s. 6d. there is a fresh entry of 60l. having been paid to Pringle in November, 1875—by the share ledger 210l. was due to Pringle—the 63l. seems to have been Pringle's first draw, and then in July, 1877, Pringle's deposit account was 218l. 12s. 6d. in the two cash-books—Jones has looked at the share ledger, and found that he paid 60l. in 1875, and then added it on in 1876—the effect is to reduce the balance in his favour by 60l.—he should have looked at the general ledger—no doubt it is a wrong method of correcting an error—as to the casting in

Evans's case, the effect of the mistake was to reduce the balance of the Society by 100l.—I should treat this sum as a ledger account.

Re-examined. As a test case I do not find any cheque drawn in Jones's favour, showing that he received money on the day of the payment to Evans—there has been no balancing of the accounts from day to day or month to month, by which errors could be detected—Jones is suffering from weakness, defective vision, and I should say his memory is about the worst I ever came across—he is blind in one eye.

GEORGE JOHNSON OTTLEY . I am an accountant of standing in the City—I accompanied Fames in examining these accounts—I agree with him that there are in the cash-book journal entries which ought not to appear there at all—I have also examined the matters to which Farries has spoken, and substantially agree with him.

Cross-examined. We were engaged three or four days upon the books for four or five hours a day—the effect of the wrong entries is to reduce the cash balance due from Jones.

Re-examined. The books of the only Society inquired into by tho chief clerk showed a balance of 1,600l. in Jones's favour.

EDWIN JAMES FARRIES (Re-examined). Jones paid 1,500l. into the bank, and also charged himself with 630l. received by himself, for which he would have to account—at the same time he was making heavy payments on behalf of that Society.

By MR. AYORY. It appears in the books as a payment by him of moneys due upon mortgage.

The prisoner received a good character as a man of honour and property, and it was stated that the auditors were mostly members of the Society, who received 12s. 6d. for their work, and were not professional accountants, and the 12 Societies were left to Jones's control.


14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-833
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

Related Material

833. JOHN JONES was again indicted for embezzling various sums, the property of the same Societies.

MR. MONTAGU WILLIAMS , for the prosecution, offered no evidence.


14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-834
VerdictsNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

834. WILLIAM HENRY BOYD , Obtaining by false pretences from Augustus Seeley, the Manager of the United Horse-shoe and Nail Company, an order for the delivery of 500 boxes of nails; also, incurring a debt and liability, and thereby obtaining credit.


MR. GRAIN Defended.

AUGUSTUS SEELEY . I am manager of the United Horse-shoe and Nail Company, Limited, of 115, Cannon Street—one of their factories is at North Greenwich—previous to 1884 Boyd had ordered goods, and a bill had been drawn for 159l. 9s. 8d., at four months—that bill was dishonoured—since then we did not allow him to get into our debt—on 3rd October he asked for goods, and I wrote him I would advance the money for him—a cheque was returned, and there was a balance of 22l. 14s. owing on that cheque on 10th April—he came several times on Friday, 10th April—late on that afternoon he selected 500 boxes of nails, value 188l. 17s. 9d., and shoes to the amount of 10l. 5s. 6d.—these are the particulars produced—when he took his cheque-book out I said "Now, Boyd, will that cheque be paid? I have had a great deal of trouble with your

cheques; I have told you I would take no more till cleared"—he said "Yes, you can send it in, the money is in the bank now"—he gave me the cheque produced, the amount including the 188l. 17s. 9d, 10l. 5s. 6d., and the 22l. 14s., the balance of the previous dishonoured cheque—I made the endorsement and sent the lad to the bank with it—I did not notice it was not dated the 10th—it is upon the Worcester City and County Banking Company, at Birmingham—I should have heard of it on the following Monday in business hours, but it was dated Saturday the 11th, and could not have gone to my credit under three days, which would be Tuesday—when the lad had gone off to the bank he said he wanted to speak to me about an advertisement inserted in the Hardware Journal, which he said he had given notice to the proprietors, Messrs. Martineau and Smith, to discontinue about a year before, and which I believed had been taken out of the paper—he said the advertisement had gone on, and he was responsible—I said "I had no idea the advertisement had been continued, I will see what I can do"—he showed me the paper which contained the advertisement, and I said "It is rather a hard case, I will see what I can do"—our directors decided to let me pay for it on his stating that he would take it out in shoes and nails, and upon that authority I told him he should have credit for 80l. upon other goods to be supplied—he also claimed about 28l. for an advertisement in a Spanish journal—I handed him the delivery orders produced for the nails and shoes, which would be at our factory at North Woolwich, where the orders would be retained—I parted with the orders believing he had given me a cheque of value of 10th April, and that the money was in the bank—I would not have given him the delivery order had I not believed his representations—on 14th April the cheque was returned—on receipt of it I wrote the prisoner—I received this letter on the same day. (Dated 14th April, from the prisoner, stating that he had not been able to find cash to meet the cheque.) I went as soon as possible to my solicitor, but he was out of town—a writ was served on me dated 20th April—until that writ I had received no notice of the breach of a contract, nor had the prisoner made any such claim for months—I had always refused to listen to any such claim, and he had said he did not himself think there was anything in it—I attended the Assizes when the action was tried, in August—the prisoner then recovered one farthing damages.

Cross-examined by MR. GRAIN. The Judge was Mr. Justice A. L. Smith—he did not tell me I could not expect a Jury to believe my evidence—I do not recollect his rebuking me—during the trial at Birmingham I did not offer to withdraw this prosecution and give him a verdict—Mr. Henry Mathews was my Counsel and Mr. Graham his junior; Mr. Darling appeared for Mr. Boyd—I was examined as a witness—Boyd has paid me about 3,900l. within 12 or 15 months—I did contract to supply Martineau and Smith with nails in January or February, 1884—that was put an end to—it was not agreed that Boyd should act as my agent; he never so acted—Boyd introduced the contract of Martineau and Smith to me—Boyd said the journal in Spanish was published in Birmingham, but I have since heard to the contrary—he said he was the proprietor—we paid some of the money for our advertisements in the Hardware Journal to Boyd, and some to Martineau and Smith—Boyd brought an order from them, and we agreed to advertise—Boyd always took the orders—I never asked Boyd to take up an

agency in the Midland Counties for our goods—he said he should sell the goods he purchased from us in the Midland Counties—I had no doubt about the cheque before I sent it to the bank; I did not examine it closely—"April 11th" is plain enough on it—Boyd never said in my presence "I shall date this cheque for to-morrow, Seeley, when I am going to receive a considerable sum of money, and I do not want it to come through before Monday;" not a word of that kind—not a syllable of that is true—I did not say "All right; it is very probable that I shall not pay it in for some time, as we are not hard-up"—I did not go to the safe and take out a bill and cheque case, nor say "You see we do not have to pay these in every day now;" nothing like it—he did not say "Oh, all right; all I want is that it shall not come through before Monday"—only Boyd and myself were present at the giving of the cheque—I know Mr. Edmunds, of Roberts and Co.—he was not at our office at the time—he was there that day before the cheque was given—he was not a witness at the Mansion House—we had done business with him on April 10th in horse nails and shoes—Boyd introduced Edmunds to the firm in the first instance—Boyd did not tell me prior to the 10th April that he had entered into a contract to supply Edmunds with our articles—Edmunds said on that day he had bought nails of Boyd, that Boyd would not deliver—I have seen Mr. Edmunds since 10th April—we still do business with him—we are not doing business with any one else introduced by Boyd—we are not doing business with Martineau and Smith, except as to the advertisement which we cancelled—I received Boyd's letter on 14th April—the writ in the civil action was issued on 20th April—I cannot give you the date I swore the information at the Mansion House; if it was 30tlr May that was more than a month after the writ—this case was down for last Session—application was made to postpone it till after the trial of the civil action—Mr. Justice Smith said "Do not bring your Old Bailey case here"—the previous cheque of Boyd's which had been returned was afterwards paid by the bankers, minus 22l., which was added to the invoice, making 220l.—other cheques had been dishonoured; one of 1,275l., which was afterwards paid—I did not owe Boyd 112l. on 10th April—I virtually gave him 80l., the price of the advertisement, because we gave him credit for that amount, but he had no authority to state he was liable for it, so that we owed it to Martineau and Smith—they did not write us to hold Boyd responsible for the advertisement—I did not during the civil trial sanction an order being made to withdraw this prosecution—if such a matter was suggested it was against my wish.

Re-examined. I wrote Boyd on the 14th that I should place the matter in the hands of my solicitors—I intended then to take criminal proceedings—Boyd resold the goods he bought for 1,270l. to Martineau and Smith, and so got the cash to pay us—I was cross-examined at the Mansion House, but never asked about the alleged conversation with Boyd as to holding over the cheque till now—I produce press copy of my letter to Boyd of 14th April—it was sent to Boyd through our office, read at the Mansion House, the boy is here who posted it, and I have an acknowledgment of the receipt of it by Boyd—by that letter I know that I resolved on 14th April to commence criminal proceedings.

FREDERICK WILLIAM NASH . I am the manager of the Birmingham branch of the Worcester City and County Banking Company, Limited,

of 103, Colmore Row, Birmingham—Boyd had an account there—the cheque marked A is his writing—it is dated 11th April; it came to our bank on the 13th—it was returned marked as it is now, "Refer to drawer"—Boyd's pass-book is produced—I also produce certified copy of the account—his overdraft was 49l. 0s. 6d. at the date of this cheque; on 28th February it was 71l. 7s. 4d.—between 16th January and 13th April eight cheques were dishonoured, exclusive of one returned by order of the drawer—one to the North-Western Railway Company for 22l. 18s. was dishonoured on 7th April, and another was dishonoured on the 11th—the defendant was served with a writ early in May for the recovery of the overdraft—we have not been paid—three of the dishonoured cheques were payable to Martineau and Smith—there was no security for the overdraft account—we wrote him on March 26th and 31st, and on April 9th, reminding him of his overdraft prior to the dishonoured cheque for 226l.—that cheque has not been paid.

Cross-examined. Boyd began his account in 1884—in that year 3,357l. passed through his account—to March, 1885, about 1,920l. was paid in—of the eight returned cheques one for 156l. 1s. 3d. of 26th January was represented and paid—we should have allowed him to have paid in on 11th April to meet the cheque.

BENJAMIN HOLMES BENNETT . I am one of the firm of Martineau and Smith, of Birmingham—we expected some nails to be delivered by Boyd in consequence of a transaction in the previous February; we had paid him for them, and we ought to have received them within a few days of 28th February—they were Globe horse nails of Mr. Seeley's Company—shortly before 10th April I pressed him for the nails several times; at last I told him I thought he was going dangerously near to getting them under false pretences—he called on me on Saturday, 11th April, and brought an order for delivery of 400 boxes of nails in his own handwriting—the paper was handed over to Mr. Lawrence, one of our own clerks, to obtain delivery of the nails—Boyd said, "I want you to get these nails at once"—I said, "What is the hurry?"—he said, "Oh, you know what a man Seeley is, he might change his mind," or words to that effect—I said, "Well, how are we to do it?"—I consented to send my clerk Lawrence, who by my instructions went to London on Sunday night, and the suggestion of a telegram came from some one—Boyd called upon me on the Monday about 11 o'clock and asked if a telegram had come—no telegram had then come—he came again about half-past 2, and I said, "A telegram has come, Lawrence has the nails, and I have done Seeley out of 100l. "—he looked pleased and knocked his hands together—the Hardware Journal is ours—Boyd's account is not paid.

Cross-examined. We have claimed rather more than 112l. from Seeley—prior to 10th April, 1885, we held Boyd responsible for the amounts due by the Horse Nail and Shoe Company, and would have sued Boyd for the debt—since 10th April we thought it was hopeless to get the money from Boyd, and as the Horse Nail Company had the benefit of the advertisement we thought it was probable they might pay us—this business of the civil trial, &c., has resulted in bitter feelings between the parties—I should say the vendor of the nails has been very badly treated—I was a witness in the civil trial—Boyd claimed 2,700l.—he says he will move for a new trial—I was not rebuked by the Judge at the

trial—the Judge's remark was addressed to Counsel—I incorrectly stated at the Mansion House that we had not one of the 360 boxes, whereas I subsequently found we were short of 214; the others had been delivered—we had received 377 boxes on March 2nd—we had still 360 boxes owing, which we then wanted to get delivery of—I asked Boyd if he had paid Seeley, and he said "Certainly I have," and was very indignant at my suggesting that he had not paid for the nails.

ERNEST LAWRENCE . I am employed by Martineau and Smith—Mr. Bennett is a member of the firm—I received directions to go to London on Sunday, 12th April—Mr. Boyd was present when I was told to go—I had a written paper with directions to go to the Horse Nail Company's wharf—I went there on Monday morning about ten minutes to 9 o'clock—a carman came directly afterwards, and I got delivery of 400 boxes of nails—I had met Boyd on the platform on the Sunday night before I went away—he told me to be sure and get there as early as I could on Monday morning—when I got possession of the nails I telegraphed to Mr. Bennett.

PERCY HENRY STEWART . I am employed at the London wharf of the Horse Nail and Shoe Company—these two delivery orders (produced) were sent to me to put goods at the disposition of Mr. Boyd—delivery was made of 100 boxes on Friday, 10th April, about 6 o'clock—they were to go to the railway to be called for at Boston—the others were delivered to Lawrence—the horse shoes were delivered on Monday to a carman.

Witness for the Defence.

WILLIAM ROOKE . I am cashier to Mr. Henry James, who trades as William Roberts and Co., at Birmingham—I believe an arrangement was made with Boyd on 2nd April to deliver some nails, but I was not present—my knowledge of the transaction begins with my instructions from Mr. Edmunds—an agreement was drawn up which was not signed—Mr. Edmunds tore it up—there was a misunderstanding as to the terms of the agreement—Mr. Edmunds left the agreement in my hands, and money to pay over on its being signed—when I went to Boyd to sign it he said "I did not agree to this and that"—100l. was to be paid in cash and 500l. in bills—the disagreement was on 4th April, and I thought the matter was at an end, but an appointment was subsequently made for us to meet at Mr. Fisher's, the solicitors to the firm, on Wednesday, 8th, when it was agreed the agreement should be carried out, subject to the delivery of certain nails that were due to us, which had nothing to do with the agreement—the agreement was not good on 10th April, because on the 9th I had instructions to send word to Mr. Boyd that it would not be carried out, as he had not delivered the 100 boxes of nails which he had agreed to do—this letter was sent by our firm to Boyd on the 13th; it was dictated to me; it is dated the 11th—there is no pretence for saying the letter was written to defeat this prosecution; we did not know it had anything to do with it—it was written to show the Wheeler Horse Nail Company. (Letter read: "To Mr. W. H. Boyd, John Bright Street, Birmingham, 11th April. Sir,—I beg to inform you that having entered into a contract with the United Horse Shoe and Nail Company direct, we shall now decline to enter into the proposed agreement with you, and cannot therefore make you the expected payment to-day on account thereof. As to the nails we have just received, we refer to your letter of

2nd March, in which you agree to give us Tower nails in exchange for the original nails from you, which we could not dispose of, owing to their inferior quality; therefore we cannot make you the expected payment to-day on account thereof.") I have been engaged in commerce 18 or 20 years, and Mr. Edmunds about the same time—W. Roberts and Co. is a respectable firm of ten years' standing—Boyd called on the Saturday when Mr. Edmunds was busy and could not see him, and he came again on Monday morning, when he saw Mr. Edmunds, who refused to hand him over the money, and afterwards instructed me to write this letter.

Cross-examined. Mr. Boyd says he never got the letter—he did not say at Mr. Fisher's office that the 100 boxes had not been delivered at Boston—we were aware they were not delivered a few days before that—when the contract was revived Boyd said the boxes should be delivered before the 9th—he had more than once stated they had been delivered—I knew on the 8th the nails had not been delivered; I wrote Mr. Edmunds by that night's post, and he telegraphed that he was angry, and if they had not been delivered he should decline to go on—Mr. Fisher received that telegram and sent it to me—Boyd was not to be allowed to sign the agreement unless we had the 320 boxes of Tower nails that were due to us, and 600 boxes of Tower nails which we were to hold for a time—we received 325 boxes on the 9th—we did not get the others—Boyd was not entitled on the 11th or 13th to receive the 500l. or the 100l., as he had not fulfilled the conditions, and no payment was due to him.


OLD COURT.—Friday and Saturday, September 18th and 19th, 1885.

Before Mr. Justice Hawkins.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-835
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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835. JOHN WILLIAM COULBERT (34) PLEADED GUILTY to unlawfully taking Beatrice Weatherly, a girl under the age of 16, out of the possession and without the consent of her mother. Two other Counts for carnal knowledge of the said girl. The prisoner received a good character.— Fifteen Months' Hard Labour. And

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-836
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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836. HENRY THOMAS SMITH (26) to falsely pretending to be in Holy orders and solemnising the office of matrimony between two persons.— One Month without Hard Labour. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-837
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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837. JOHN MILLIS (18), for a rape on Kate Simpson.


GUILTY .— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-838
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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838. FREDERICK DANIEL YOUC (24), Feloniously carnally knowing and abusing Ellen Tame, a girl under 13 years of age.

MR. ISAACSON Prosecuted; MR. BURNIE Defended.

GUILTY .— Eight Years' Penal Servitude.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-839
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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839. DAVID COLE (23), for a rape on Elizabeth Annie Cole.

MR. JONES LEWIS Prosecuted.

GUILTY .— Six Years' Penal Servitude.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-840
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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840. WILLIAM BISSON (19), Feloniously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of George Nicholls, and stealing a coat.

MR. KEITH FEITH Prosecuted.

GEORGE NICHOLLS . I live at 238, Green Street, Bethnal Green, and am a dealer in horseflesh and cat's-meat—I went to bed just before 1 o'clock in the morning of 27th July—I had shut the front door and all the windows between 2 and 3 o'clock—I was awoke by my wife—I went into the next room, and there found the prisoner—the window was then open and the shutters also—a coat which I had left hanging behind the back room door was lying in front of the drawers—I caught hold of the prisoner and said, "What do you want here?"—he said, "I have come to look for my mother"—he was a perfect stranger to me; I do not know his mother—I struggled with him and he got away—I caught him again; a constable came up, and I gave him in charge.

HENRY FERRY . I am a silk weaver, of 269, Green Street—about half-past 2 on the morning of the 27th I heard a disturbance, and saw the prosecutor in full speed after some one—I went out, and he had just caught the prisoner—they had a struggle—the prisoner broke away and ran; the prosecutor followed and caught him—I held him while the prosecutor dressed himself and fetched a constable.

WILLIAM STRUTT (Policeman K 262). I took the prisoner into custody,—he said, "I went into the house to search for my mother."

Prisoner's Defence. My mother had moved, and I did not know where to. I was walking about all Saturday night and Sunday. I had a drop to drink and went into Mr. Nicholls's house. I am very sorry. It is the first time.

GEORGE NICHOLLS (Re-examined). He was sober.

GUILTY .— Six Weeks' Hard Labour.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-841
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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841. ROBERT WILLIS (27), Feloniously forging and counterfeiting certain marks resembling those in use by the Goldsmiths' Company. Second Count, uttering the same.

MESSRS. POLAND and MEAD Prosecuted; MR. KEITH FEITH Defended.

ARTHUR WOODTHORPE . I am assistant to Hawes and Sons, pawnbrokers, in Cranbourne Street, Leicester Square—on Saturday, 26th July, about 7 p.m., a watch was brought to be pledged—I advanced 9l. on it—this is the watch (produced)—it purports to be manufactured by Walker—I examined it; I saw what purported to be hall marks; I believed it to he gold—I do not recollect the person who came; it was a man, but I cannot recollect who—on Saturday, 15th August, the prisoner came to the shop about 7 o'clock—I had seen him in the shop before that; his face is very familiar to me—I thought he dealt in goods of that class—the box he came into has a very bad light, we have to have gas—the man who pawned the first watch came into that box—the prisoner gave me this watch (No. 2), and asked me to lend him 14l. on it, or more if I could—I examined it and tested it at the back of the shop; I found it was not gold—I returned to him and asked him how much he gave for it—he said 35l.—I asked him where ho had bought it—he was going to say, but he hesitated and did not say where; he gave no answer—I observed that the watch had the hall mark for 18-carat gold—I went; to the door and called in the constable, James Calf—I told him to take the prisoner in charge for offering a forged hall-mark watch—he said he

had come to pledge it for some one else—he was taken to the police-station—he was there charged—he said he had taken it for a bet of 35l. at the Cranbourne public-house, and I think he said it was because he gave the man a jollying.

Cross-examined. I cannot recollect what things he has pawned before—I have seen him in the shop—he might have pledged and redeemed articles on several occasions, but I cannot recollect—he has tried to pledge things—he might have taken them away—I took in the watch on 25th July—in consequence of the mistake I made on that occasion the loss fell on my master—there was no dispute or disagreement with any customer with me; there might be with some other assistant at the other end of the shop; I know nothing about it—now it is brought to my mind I think I heard some one say something about change being given, but it had nothing to do with me—it might have taken me about two or three minutes to take the watch away and look at it—I had examined it previously in front of the prisoner as regards the hall-marking, I just glanced at it—when I came back from examining it he was still in the same place—I just went out at the door to call the constable—he was stationed at the point at the corner about four yards from the door—it is necessary to test a watch if we disbelieve the hall mark—there are no other tests but the acid test.

JAMES CALF (Policeman C 316). On Saturday night, 15th August, about 7 o'clock, I was in uniform on duty near the pawnbroker's shop—I was called into the shop—the assistant told me to take the prisoner into custody for attempting to pledge a forged hall mark—the prisoner said, "I have come in to pledge it for some one else"—I took him to the station—he there said, "I received the watch from a friend of mine who owed me a bet of 35l.; I met him in the Cranbourne public-house, and gave him a blowing-up, and got the watch for the bet."

Cross-examined. I took it down in writing almost directly after, and have it here—I am stationed about four yards from the pawnbroker's shop.

JAMES WHITMAR . I am a member of the firm of Upjohns and Bright, watch manufacturers, 15, King William Street, Strand—this watch, No. 2, purports to be our manufacture,✗has our name on it—it is not our manufacture; the name is forged; it is an imitation of ours as far as the outside goes—it appears to be silver gilt; it is not gold; if it were it would be worth between 35l. and 40l., according to the watchmaker who sells it—we cannot fix the price in our trade for the retail—I estimate the value at 5l.—I cannot state a retail price—no respectable watchmaker would sell a watch made up like that.

Cross-examined. There are several goldsmith companies in England, all of which have the right of marking watches—I am not acquainted with all of them, only those of London, Birmingham, and Chester—there are four different standards of gold, 9, 15, 18, and 22 carat; the foreign watches are slightly lower, about half a carat—these imitation watches are made so admirably that they may deceive any one but an expert—if I looked through a shop window I could not tell, but of course if I had them in hand it would be totally different—No. 2 is a very close imitation of the outside—if I had a doubt about the hall mark I should test it—this is an imitation of the London hall mark—an outsider, a person not in the trade, might easily take this to be gold.

WILLIAM ROBINSON . I am deputy warden of the Assay Office of the Goldsmiths' Company; the marking of gold watches is under my control—the mark on the inside of No. 2 is an imitation of the mark of the Goldsmiths' Company of the 18 carat standard—I have here one of the genuine stamps, the top is a crown and on the bottom is "18," and there is a leopard's head—there is a letter which indicates the year in which the stamp is put on—the whole thing is put on at once by one stamp—I find on No. 2 an imitation of those four marks, the only difference is that the letter is not the same—the letter in No. 2 indicates 1810—No. 1 has the same letter, and no doubt the punches were the same, but done by separate punches—both watches are silver gilt, and I think strongly gilt.

Cross-examined. The marks of the Goldsmiths' Company have not varied, only the letter-lists of the variations are not supplied to watchmakers; they can purchase a book containing the list of the date letters issued by the Goldsmiths' Company—there is a small fee of 18d. for stamping—our Company has no branches—the other Companies are not under the control of the London Company—I am acquainted with all their marks; they vary from time to time—they do not mark gold cases at all; the only Company who mark gold and silver watch cases are the London, Birmingham, and Chester, York and other places do not—these hall marks on these watches are not the hall marks of Birmingham or Chester, they are imitations of the London hall mark.

GUILTY .— Six Years' Penal Servitude.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-842
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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842. JOHN CRONIN (25), RICHARD COLEMAN (24), and JOHN THOMAS (25), Robbery with violence on Charles Baker and stealing a watch and chain.

MR. POPE Prosecuted; MR. KEITH FRITH defended Cronin, MR. PARKES

Coleman and Thomas.

CHARLES BAKER . I am an optician, at 244, High Holborn—on 18th August, about 10 minutes to 6 o'clock, I was passing through White Hart Street, from Holborn to Waterloo Bridge—I saw a cluster of men; as I attempted to pass them a man, who to the best of my belief was Coleman, made a snatch at my watch and guard—Coleman put his shoulder out, endeavouring to intercept me; I ran against it and fell—Thomas only looked on—they got my watch and chain—I followed Coleman, but lost him in the intricacies of the court—I went back to the spot; they were all gone—I went to Bow Street next morning and gave particulars, and gave descriptions of the men—a number of men were put before me on the following morning, and I picked out the three prisoners with some degree of hesitation, because the dress of this class of men is so much alike—I picked out no other man first, I hesitated as to all.

Cross-examined by MR. FRITH. I believe them to be the men to the best of my knowledge—I am more positive now than I was at the police-court, and I was more positive then than I was at the police-station—they offered me no violence.

JAMES SCANDRETH (Police Sergeant E). About a quarter past 5 o'clock on the evening of 18th August I was with Drew, and went to the Two Spies public-house. Catherine Street, where we saw the three prisoners; Sergeant Tremlett came in—on the following day, 9th August, I again went to the Two Spies with Tremlett, and again saw the three prisoners

there—on each occasion they were there together, alone—I said "We are police officers, we shall take you to the station for stealing a watch and chain last night"—we took them into custody—Coleman said "All right, I will go with you"—Cronin said nothing—I took them to Bow Street—they were placed with seven others; the prosecutor identified the three prisoners, and said, pointing to Coleman, "That is the man that stole my watch"—he pointed out no others—Coleman was wearing a cap then; on the night of the 18th he had on a black felt hat.

SIDNEY TREMLETT (Policeman E 350). On the evening of the 18th I went into the Two Spies, and I went in again on the 19th and took Thomas into custody.


NEW COURT.—Saturday, September 19th, 1885.

Before Mr. Recorder.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-843
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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843. FRANCES LEVICK (18) PLEADED GUILTY to unlawfully obtaining by false pretences two pairs of boots and two pair of shoes of Henry Bateman.— Ten Days' Imprisonment. And

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-844
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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844. HENRY CLEMENTS (61) to burglary in the dwelling-house of Henry Ewens, and stealing three spoons and other articles, after a conviction of felony at Clerkenwell in November, 1879.— Nine Months' Hard Labour. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-845
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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845. GEORGINA LOUISA RYAN , Stealing 1 1/2 yards of ribbon, the property of William Whiteley.



MARGARET WILLSFORD . I am employed by Mr. Whiteley—on 11th July a sale commenced in several departments—I was engaged in the ribbon department with a great many others—I know the prisoner as a casual customer in my department for about 18 months—on 11th July she came to my counter and took up a piece of ribbon value 2 3/4 d.—each piece is ticketed with the length and the price—I think she gave me a shilling in payment—I wrapped it in paper—we always put the amount we receive on the bottom of the bill, which it in duplicate, and give it to a cash boy, who takes it to the cashier, and then brings the change back to me with the stamped bill, and we then give it to the customer—I did that with reference to Mrs. Ryan on that occasion—while the cash boy was going to the desk I noticed the prisoner rolling some pieces of ribbon very tight in her hand, and when the boy came back with the change she dropped them in the box from which she had taken them—I was serving a customer below when the cash boy came back, and when I saw him coming I went towards her, and she then dropped the ribbon—she had an open bag on her arm—in consequence of what I had seen I made a communication to Mr. Strickland, the shopwalker in my department.

Cross-examined by MR. CLARKE. I have been at Mr. Whiteley's about 4 1/2 years—I might have known the prisoner for more than 18 months, but I did not take any notice of her—I have not become aware that she has been a regular customer of Mr. Whiteley's for years—I have heard since this case has been on that she has used the banking department of Whiteley's for the purpose of cashing cheques—I have not heard that her boxes were housed at Whiteley's for a considerable time, or that

their carts called regularly on her with bread—these sales are very busy affairs—there are two regular days a week for selling remnants—the 11th or 22nd was not one of those days—we always have the goods exposed on the counter—the 11th was a day of great pressure of business—we very often get such crowds that there is a difficulty in dealing with them—the counter at which I was stationed is a very long one, not quite as long as this Court—there are 10 other assistants there besides me—this is exclusively a ribbon counter, which was covered with boxes with remnants in them—the people who come to buy these remnants take them up and look at them and put them down again—there are two other counters in this shop, one at the top and one at the bottom—mine is in the centre—the top of the shop is at the other end from the door—there are five at that counter and four at the bottom one—we always keep the same position at the counter—to get to the antimacassar department from the ribbon department you would have to go through two shops, it is further in the building, and to get to the banking department you would have to go through five shops—ladies loiter about in the shops a great deal at the time of these sales looking at different things—I saw the prisoner two or three times after that during the day on which she was charged with stealing, going from one shop to the other—I have seen her served in the ribbon department since the 11th by other assistants—I do not remember saying at the police-court "I have seen the prisoner twice since the 11th; she then purchased from other assistants at the same counter."

EMILY PAINE . I am assistant to Mr. Whiteley—I have known the prisoner 18 months as a customer there—on 22nd July she came to my counter and selected some ribbon value 1 3/4 d.—I made out a bill—she gave me two pennies, which I took and the bill to the desk, and brought it back with a farthing—on my way back to the counter Mr. Strickland spoke to me—I then handed the prisoner the ribbon wrapped in paper, enclosing the bill, and the farthing—she had then a bag on her arm—when I served her she took the money from it, and left it open—after I gave her the parcel she went straight out at the door.

Cross-examined. This was a very busy day—I stood next to Miss Willsford at the counter; she was on my left—I can't say whether she was close to me when I served the prisoner; there was a line of assistants on one side of the counter, and a line of customers waiting to be served on the other side—I don't remember seeing the prisoner going through the ribbon department earlier that day—I saw her at the counter a very long time, not waiting to be served, but looking into all the boxes as she went along—I have noticed that she is very short-sighted, and obliged to look very closely at things—she had a parcel under her arm; I had seen her before that morning without the parcel—I had to go about 20 yards to the desk to pay the money—1s. 11 1/2 d. is a good price for a remnant—I find customers, as a rule, wait for their bills—if a person purchased a piece of ribbon marked 6d., and handed over the sixpence and did not wait for the bill, it would be destroyed—when I was serving the prisoner Mr. Strickland was two or three yards off.

Re-examined. We always make out two bills, whether the customer takes it or not; it must be passed through the desk.

ALFRED STRICKLAND . I am shopwalker to Mr. Whiteley, in the ribbon department—a sale was on on the 11th, which continued up to and

included the 22nd—I recollect Miss Willsford speaking to me on the 11th—the prisoner was in the shop, and within my view; I had seen her twice before that—in consequence of what she told me I fixed my attention upon the prisoner—on 22nd July I saw her again in the ribbon department; Miss Paine was in the act of serving her—I was standing from two to three yards from her—I saw Miss Paine go from the counter towards the receiving desk; she spoke to me on the way, and I saw the prisoner put a piece of ribbon into her bag, which was open, and resting on the boxes on the counter—it bore our marks—I saw Miss Paine give her the change and the parcel, which she put in her bag, closed it, and walked towards the door down the shop—I followed her, and let her precede me into the street, and stopped her opposite the second shop from No. 51—I touched her lightly on the shoulder and asked her if she would allow me to see what was in her bag—she did not appear to hear me, or she was confused—I said again "I want to see what you have in your bag"—she said "I don't know what you mean"—I said "Come inside, I will tell you"—she followed me into No. 47, and placed her bag on a glass case; it was open, and I found in it the ribbon which I saw her put in—I asked her to come with me to the office—she followed me there, and I there reported the matter—she was asked to account for the possession of the ribbon—she made no reply to the first question—it was repeated, and she then said "I bought it"—she was then asked to produce the bill—she made a search in her bag, and then said she supposed she had lost it—I asked her if she would point out the assistant who served her—she said she could not do that, and offered to pay for it—I then sent for a police-officer.

Cross-examined. I have been at Whiteley's four months—Mr. Whiteley, I believe, is in Germany—this conversation took place in the presence of Mr. Arthur, manager of the counting-house—she has cashed cheques there, but I do not know if she cashed one that morning—I saw her with a parcel of antimacassars under her arm, which she had bought at Whiteley's that day, but I didn't notice it when she stood at the counter—I did not see her pick up the piece of black ribbon, but I saw her hand come from the open box in which the ribbons were, and on which her bag was standing, the boxes on the counter—it was between 12 and 12.30 in the day—I did not notice that she was deaf—she said she had bought the ribbon.

BENJAMIN BENNETT (Detective Sergeant X). I was called to Mr. Whiteley's on the 22nd, and the prisoner was given in my custody—she said she was willing to pay for the ribbon—I examined her bag at the station—I found upon her 6l. 10s. 8d. in money and some other articles.

Cross-examined. I have heard that Whiteley's men called regularly at her house.

JOHN WALTER JUPE . I am dissecting clerk at Whiteley's, I analyse the bills—I produce all the bills for all sales from the two desks in the ribbon department—there is no bill for the sale of a piece of ribbon at 1s. 11 1/2 d. on 22nd July.

Cross-examined. Miss Paine would pay into desk 53—the 505 on this bill is the number of the assistant—I cannot tell you the number of the bills in each of these bundles—I do not think the assistants sometimes put the goods of different customers on the same bill.

The prisoner received an excellent character.


14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-846
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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846. JOHN FERGUSON (38), Forging and uttering an order for the payment of 8l., with intent to defraud.

MR. GRIFFITHS Prosecuted; MR. PURCELL Defended.

FRANK PAINE . I am a butcher, at 42, Southwick Street, Paddington—Mrs. Eliza Leach, of 10, Hyde Park Terrace, was a customer of mine for three months—I know the prisoner as her butler—on Tuesday, 4th August, he came to my shop about 12.30, and asked me to oblige Mrs. Leach by changing this cheque, as she was going abroad—I had taken cheques before for her—I gave him the 8l. at once—"Brook and Co., 81, Lombard Street. Pay Wm. Smith or bearer 8l. Mary Leach, 10, Hyde Park Terrace"—I paid it into my bank, the Capital and Counties, Edgware Road, the same day, and on the following Friday it was returned to me marked "No account."

Cross-examined. I called at Mrs. Leach's myself for orders about twice a week—I saw the prisoner there five or six times—I was sitting in the desk when he came—it is a large open window—he was about 10 minutes in my company, because I was not busy, and I had a conversation with him—I was brought to the police-station on the 14th, and was shown three or four persons, and was then taken to a part of the station where there was a form against the wall, upon which the prisoner was sitting—directly I saw him I was convinced that he was Mrs. Leach's butler, and the man that brought the cheque—I was not asked to pick out the man—I had received several cheques from Mrs. Leach for payments of accounts.

Re-examined. The butler never brought me a cheque before—I have no doubt the prisoner is the man.

POTTER. I am in the employ of Messrs. Brook and Co., bankers, at 81, Lombard Street—this piece of paper, which purports to be a cheque for 8l., was presented there from the Capital and Counties—neither Mary or Eliza Leach has any account there—it was returned.

CADEY (Police Sergeant D). I received information and arrested the prisoner at 11 o'clock on 14th August—I said "I am a police officer, I shall take you into custody for uttering two fictitious cheques on Mr. Paine and Mr. Grove"—he replied "I know nothing about them"—I took him to the station, and Mr. Paine came and recognised him at once.

HANNAH UNWIN . I am servant to Mrs. Leach, of 10, Hyde Park Terrace; she left London on 28th July and stayed until the 31 at, came back, and on 4th August she went abroad—the prisoner was her butler from 20th June to 28th July—the signature to this cheque is not her writing; her name is Eliza, this is Mary—I never knew the prisoner to go to Mr. Paine's.

Cross-examined. I never saw Mr. Paine come for orders, only his man; if he had come I should have given him the order, I sometimes send the the girl to the door—this letter (produced) is Mrs. Leach's writing.

There was another indictment against the prisoner which was postponed to nest Session.


14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-847
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceMiscellaneous > sureties

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847. JANE GILES (37) was indicted for a libel on Antoni Strettle.

MR. SAUNDERS Prosecuted; MR. C. MATHEWS Defended.

HENRIETTA JANE STRETTLE . I live at 25, Carlton Terrace, West-bourne Park, and am the widow of Captain Strettle, late of H.M. Indian

Army—the prosecutor is my son; the prisoner was my landlady for a year and two months—I received this letter from her, it is in her writing—I showed it to my son. (This was addressed 41, Walcot Street, St. Peter's Road, to Mrs. Strettle, stating that her son had called her a redhot prostitute, and that the matter would be laid before the India Office, who already had a charge against him. )

Cross-examined. The letter is dated March 18th, 1885, and I received it on the 19th; but these libels were continued till 20th August, on which day my son commenced proceedings—on 3rd March this year I owed the defendant 11l. 10s. and gave her this IOU, but this is not the way to take money from me, and it was not for rent—I did not apply for an Administration order at the Marylebone County Court, but one was made against my will, and they put down 16l.—that letter (produced) is the writing of Berkley versus Mitchell—this woman was bound over for breaking my doors and using abusive language, and her bail is not over yet, Berkley pro Mitchell I mean—I swear it is not my son's writing, as far as mortal eye can see; I can't read that writing, and I can read my son's writing easily, I am positive it is not his writing—I went to the India Office with reference to a letter which had been written to them by my son about Mrs. Poon's slander—she would not have done it unless I had been a widow, she is too fond of persecuting the widow and the fatherless.

ANTONY STRETTLE . I live with my mother and have been a deputy clerk in the Civil Service fifteen years—the defendant lives in Warlock Road—this letter is in her writing; my mother showed it to me—we had to leave Carlton Chambers two days after she said that my mother was a prostitute—it is not true that I said so of my mother, she is one of the best and noblest of women.

Cross-examined. I left the Civil Service not many months ago—this letter signed "A. C. Strettle," is not my writing, it is a forgery, and I challenge them to prove it—I have written twenty or thirty letters to the India Office exposing Mrs. Combe—several persons complained of charges being made each quarter, and Mrs. Combe goes there and makes charges against them—if that letter was sent to the India Office by me how would the prisoner know that it was written—I knew nothing of its existence—I swear positively that it is not mine—you want to take my mother's pension away, she is a pensioner in the India Office—in January, 1884, I lived at 41, Walcot Road, Paddington—these letters were all addressed to the India Office and to my mother's bankers—there is a lady here who has known my writing for fifteen years—I know nothing about this letter.

GUILTY . To enter into her own recognisances in 50l. to keep the peace towards all Her Majesty's subjects, and the prosecutor in particular, for six months, and to come up for judgment if she repeats the libels.

OLD COURT.—Monday, September 21st, 1885, and four following days.

Before Mr. Justice Hawkins.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-848
VerdictMiscellaneous > no agreement

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848. JAMES MALCOLM (31) was indicted for feloniously marrying Emma Dash on the 4th April, 1885, his wife Elizabeth being then alive.



JOHN WILLIAMSON . I am a butcher, of 14, St. Swithin's Street, Aberdeen—on the 23rd May, 1877, my daughter Elizabeth was married to the prisoner at Oak Bank, Aberdeen, where I was then living, by Mr. Andrew Macqueen, in the presence of myself and wife, according to the form of the Free Church. (The certificate was handed in and read.) The prisoner's wife has been living with him ever since.

CHARLES CORNELIUS MACONICHIE . I am an advocate of the Scotch Bar—the marriage referred to is valid and binding according to the Scotch law.

EMMA DASH . I live with my mother, a widow, at 10, Broad Street, Brighton—on Sunday, 29th March, between 1 and 2 o'clock, while with my mother, I met the prisoner on the Parade, who introduced himself as Captain Macdonald, and said he had met me at a ball in London—I think afterwards he mentioned the Caledonian Ball to my mother—I did not recognise him—my mother said "Are you sure you have met her at a ball?" and he said "Yes"—we walked along the Madeira Walk—he told me that four years ago he had been engaged to a young lady; that her mother would not allow him to marry her because the was too young, and when he returned from his sea voyage she was married, and that if ever he married he should take his wife with him—he asked my mother if he might call in the afternoon and she declined, as she did not know him sufficiently well—he asked me if I would go for a drive in the afternoon—I said "Yes"—I don't think my mother wanted me to go—I was not very well at the time—I said good-bye to him and went home to lunch, having arranged in my mother's presence to meet at 3.30—when I got home my mother did not want me to go—we met nearly opposite the Aquarium at 3.30—he was walking, and he hired a Victoria, and we drove to Lewes, and put up at, I think, the White Hart Hotel—the prisoner ordered dinner, and we dined there, and left some time after five as near as I can remember—we drove back to the Brighton Railway Station, and I waited to see him off by the 8.40 train to London, he having told me he would telegraph to me—he asked me at Lewes if I would like to go a sea voyage, and that he was wing to start about the 14th April—I gave him my address before he left, and on the Monday I received this telegram from him him.) (Read: "Handed in at Highbury, near Station, 3.50. Received 4.0. From Jas. Macdonald to Miss Dash, 10, Broad Street, Brighton. Regret to say it is impossible to get down to day. Will arrive to-morrow by 1.7. Hope you are well.") On the Tuesday I received this second telegram. (Read: "Victoria L. B. and S. C. Railway 10.20 a.m. Received Brighton 10.34. From James Macdonald to Miss Dash, 10, Broad Street, Brighton. Just managed to miss the 10 train. Will be at Brighton 12.34. Should you we same coachman on way up bring him to station. Will go long ride; lovely day.") I went to the station, and met the 12.34 train, which did not arrive till about 12.45—the same coachman drove me to the station [PAGE stood forward)—that is he—we then drove to Worthing and went to an hotel—I forget the name—we dined and returned to Brighton, and the prisoner went to London by the 8.40—he had previously been to my mother's with me and had tea—he asked my mother if she would allow him to marry me—we had previously decided it—my mother said she

had known him so short a time, but at last she consented, and he said he would get the licence the next day—my mother tried to persuade me in his presence not to marry him—I had not then heard him mention the name of a ship—he telegraphed to me on the Wednesday, but I have not the telegram, to say I was to meet him at 4.50, and I met him at 5 p.m., and we went home to tea, and afterwards we went to the Rev. Mr. Mallaby's at Dorset Gardens—the prisoner told him, after showing him the licence, that he wanted to be married on Good Friday—Mr. Mallaby refused to marry us on that day, and it was arranged for Saturday—my mother and I saw him off by the 8.40 train for London—he came to my mother's house a little after 5 on Thursday evening—my mother had gone up to the station to meet Mr. Maye from Liverpool, but she missed him, and he came in and was introduced to Captain Macdonald—Captain Macdonald volunteered to go to the station to meet my mother, which he did, and brought her back—Captain Macdonald asked me to go up to the clergyman again, as he wished to speak to him—we went, but no one answered the door, and Captain Macdonald wrote a note and left it in the letter box—we returned to my mother's house, where we found my mother and Mr. Maye—on our way there we met Mr. Bridcot, who had been introduced that day to Captain Macdonald—the prisoner left a little before 10 o'clock, saying he must get back to the hotel early—I thought he was going to the Clarendon, as he engaged a bed there the day before—that was the first night he slept in Brighton since our engagement—the next day (Good Friday) I saw the prisoner at my mother's house at about 1 o'clock—I wished to go for a walk, but he wished to go for a drive, so we went for a drive to Hurst, where we dined, and drove back and went to evening service with my mother, Miss Lewis, and Mr. Maye—we all returned home to supper, and the prisoner left about 10 o'clock—it was arranged that we should meet at St. James's Church the next morning (Saturday) at 8 o'clock—my mother, Miss Lewis, Mr. Maye and myself met the prisoner at the church a little after 8, and I went through the form of marriage with the prisoner in the presence of those persons—Mr. Mallaby officiated—I afterwards went into the vestry and signed the register, "Emma Dash"—I saw the prisoner was signing, but I did not see him write his name—I think he signed first, but I could not tell by looking at it. (The register was put in and the entry read.) Mr. Osborne joined us, and we went to the Clarendon Hotel to breakfast, after which the prisoner and I went to Chichester by train, and stopped at the Dolphin Hotel till Monday evening, when we returned to Brighton about 8.20.

By the COURT. We stayed at the Dolphin as married persons.

By MR. AVORY. We stayed at my mother's about 10 minutes, and the prisoner was introduced to a Mr. Hudson—I then went to the station to see the prisoner off to London by the 8.40—I did not see the train start—he told me, coming from Chichester, that before he married he had volunteered to go in another vessel, in which case he could not take his wife, and he should refuse to go in it—Mr. Maye asked him, on Thursday evening, the name of his vessel, and he said it was the Kaikoura—I cannot remember how it was spelled, but it began, I believe, with a K—when he spoke of this to me I said "You will take me with you surely?" he put his hand over his eyes and said how sorry he was, but if they made him go he could not help himself—then he told me he would telegraph for me on Tuesday, when I must at once go up—he said he must be on board

the Kaikoura by 4 the next morning—on Tuesday I received this telegram from him. (Read: "Central Telegraph Office. Handed in at 1 something. Received 1.28 at Brighton. James Macdonald to Mrs. Macdonald, 10, Broad Street. Shall be glad to see you as soon as you can. Shall meet you at Amy's. Sorry cannot come down to-night. Love mother and May.") Amy is Miss Lewis, who lives at 12, Little Stanhope Street, Mayfair—I never received any further communication from him—when the telegram arrived I was out—I went to London that evening, and was met by Miss Lewis, and we went to Little Stanhope Street—Captain Macdonald had been to Miss Lewis's house—I think I arrived at Victoria at 10.45; Mr. Osborne was at Miss Lewis's but not the prisoner—Miss Lewis went down to Brighton the next day—from that time until July I never saw nor heard from him.

By the COURT. He gave me his address on the Sunday before we were married as at the Grand Hotel—I believed all he told me—he told me all his relatives had died except some cousins in Scotland, and that his home was in Scotland—I don't remember the name of the place—he said we should not go there for two and a-half years, as we should be travelling.

By MR. AVORY. In July last I went to the house of a Mr. Grant, butcher, of King William Street, Strand, at Mr. Osborne's request—I had met Mr. Grant several times at different balls—Mrs. Grant took me up into the drawing-room, where I saw Mr. Grant and Captain Macdonald—Miss Lewis, who was there, said "This is the man"—the prisoner said it was a mistake, and then I went up and asked him "Do you really mean to say you did not marry me?"—he said he was very sorry for me, but that it was a mistake—I recognised a scar on his forehead, but I recognised him—then I said "Donald, why don't you own you are the man?"—he said "Well, if I do. what then?"—Mr. Osborne said "If you do you commit yourself"—after that Captain Macdonald asked me if I would go with him and see his wife, who would explain everything—I did not know his wife, and declined, and Mrs. Grant, Miss Lewis, and myself went out of the room—about a quarter of an hour after I went back with Miss Lewis—Mr. Osborne and Mr. Grant were not in the room—I asked him again to say or confess he was the man—he said "If I do, what then?"—when he was at our house before we were married he said he had the toothache, and my mother told him to have it out, but I never saw the place where he had it out—he gave me the tooth when he brought some rings for me to choose an engagement ring—I gave him the tooth back—I could see it was a front tooth, but I did not look at it particularly—Miss Lewis said at Mr. Grant's "And you have lost a tooth too, captain"—he said "Yes, I have one in my pocket"—I could see he had lost, I think, an eyetooth—I saw him write this one word at Brighton "Darling" (produced)—I put it in my desk—I think it was on the Thursday—I was going to write a letter, and he said "I will write it," and in a joke he began it, and I said "No, I will write to him"—I was going to write to a gentleman to tell him of my engagement—the word was not intended for me—the prisoner is the man who married me and took me to Chichester.

Cross-examined. When the prisoner first met me with my mother he took off his hat and I think he said "I have the pleasure of knowing you; I have met you at a ball"—I did not recognise him, but I thought he might have met me, and I took his word for it—we walked for half an hour, when he asked my mother if he might call in the afternoon, and

she objected, and he then suggested we should go for a drive, and that I should meet him—my mother did not suggest that she should go too—she did not go with me to meet him—she knew I was going—we started for Lewes at about 3.30—I had dined before I met him—we had a private room at the White Hart, where I dined again—I don't think he said anything to me that day about wanting to marry me—he said he was going a sea voyage—when he spoke of the yonng lady who married while he was at sea, and said ho should take his wife with him when he married, it did not occur to me that he was making any proposition to me—when he told me on the Sunday that he would telegraph to me on Monday I thought it rather odd—I did not say "Don't"—he told me he was staying at the Grand Hotel, Charing Cross—I made no inquiry there—on Tuesday, 31st, I met him by train at 12.45, and we drove to Worthing—we dined there at an hotel in a private room—on our way there he proposed to marry me—I do not remember whether I was surprised—we drove in a Victoria; there was a coachman on the box—he said he was going away on the 14th, and asked me if I would marry him, and go with him—I said "Yes;" I thought the voyage would do me good—I married him because I liked him—I don't know why I married him—my mother had a woman and her husband as servants in the house—I have not seen either of them here—they were not called at the police-court—the woman (Ann) Would have seen the prisoner two or three times—on the Wednesday the prisoner went to the Clarendon—I went as far as the door with my mother; I did not look to see if he went to the bar—he was inside only four or five minutes—we then took a cab and drove to the station—on Thursday he came in at 5 o'clock—we went to the clergyman's—the prisoner told me the name of his ship, viz., the Kaikoura—he spelled it to Mr. Maye, who asked him the name in my presence—I have never said the ship was the Concordia—Mr. Elliott, my mother's house-agent, about a fortnight after I was married, said he would inquire about the vessel for me, as he was going to London, and he afterwards told me it had sailed a month before—he is not here to-day—I do not remember the name of the place in Scotland that Captain Macdonald told me he came from—I asked him if he had any friends in town, and he said he had none that he should ask to the wedding—I only saw the waiter at the Clarendon at the breakfast, not the manageress—when he disappeared on the Monday I did not inquire at the Clarendon or the Grand Hotel—[MRS. HABPER called in]—I did not see her at the Clarendon—Captain Macdonald told my mother in my presence on the Thursday before we were married that he had had the tooth in question taken out in London—he gave me the tooth and I returned it to him—he did not say when he had his tooth out—except for what he told me I did not know whether his eye-tooth was in his head or not, so I do not identify him by that—when I saw him at Mr. Grant's I observed his beard, whiskers, and moustache had been slightly cut—of course I know he is the man—his hair was slightly grey at the sides—I think his beard and moustache have been slightly cut now—I think I said before the Magistrate that the prisoner said at Mr. Grant's in reply to me "If I do, what then?" and that Mr. Osborne replied "If you do you will commit yourself," but I was so worried that I hardly know what I said—I told them all I could remember—when Miss Lewis said to the prisoner at Mr. Grant's "You have lost a tooth too, Captain," I could see that he had lost a

tooth—he said "Yes, I have one in my pocket," and was going to produce it, but I don't think he did—he did not say when he had it out—I have made no inquiry at the hotel at Lewes—I told my solicitor that I thought it was the White Hart—I made no inquiry at Worthing or at the hotel at Hurst—the prisoner is the man who married me—he asked me again at Snow Hill if I would go to his wife—I refused each time.

Re-examined. My mother let her house at Brighton when I came to London, and the servants left—I was not at home at the time—I have been living since at Miss Lewis's—my mother had apartments in Brighton—I believe the servants were in London sometime, and then they went to some place in Kent—I had never been to the Caledonian Ball; I had been to other balls in London—I have no doubt that the prisoner is the man.

By the COURT. The prisoner did not mention the Caledonian ball—it was afterwards he mentioned it to my mother.

ZOE DASH . I live at Brighton, and in March and April last I lived at 10, Broad Street, Brighton, with the last witness, my daughter—on Sunday, 29th March, when walking on the Parade with my daughter we met the prisoner, who said "How do you do?" to my daughter—she introduced him to me as Captain Macdonald; they had a little conversation—I did not hear exactly what it was—he walked along the Parade with us—there was something said about going out for a drive, but I did not hear it—my daughter went out in the afternoon, and returned in the evening—I did not know where she went—I next saw the prisoner on Tuesday evening at my house—he left by the 8.40 p.m. train—he told me he wished to marry my daughter, and I told him I could not think of such a thing until they knew more of each other—he said he had met her before the Sunday—my daughter might not have been present then—he told me they had made up their minds to be married, and had the licence in his pocket, and was going then to speak to the clergyman—on Sunday he said that when he came home from a long voyage he had been jilted by a young lady, and he now intended to take his wife out with him—I told him on the Tuesday that my daughter had no fortune—he said he had sufficient for her; that he was captain and part owner of the Kaikoura, a large passenger vessel—he said all his relations were dead—I asked him particularly about his family—he said his father was an independent gentleman, and lived in Scotland—I forget the name of the place—he said it was no use for me to object—I did not say anything either way—I have a son—the prisoner came to my house for three or four hours on Thursday—there were several others there, including Mr. Bridcot—he left before 10 o'clock, as he wanted to be at the Clarendon Hotel by 10 o'clock—I went with him when he engaged his room—I believe it was on Thursday—it was on Good Friday he said he wanted to be in early—we went to church, and he returned to supper—I went to the wedding on Saturday morning, and saw the prisoner sign the register, and I signed as a witness—I went back with them to the Clarendon Hotel to breakfast, and saw them off by train to Chichester—on Monday night they returned to my home—I never saw him again till he was in custody.

Cross-examined. The man who addressed my daughter was on the other side of the road—he had a very short conversation with my daughter which I did not hear, and then she introduced him to me as Captain Macdonald—he spoke of his having been abroad, and coming home, and

about this young lady to whom he was engaged who jilted him; that he had been ill through it, and had come to Brighton for change—I felt sorry for him, and I dare say I said so—I don't think I knew that my daughter was going out for a drive with him that afternoon—directly she came back she told me where she had been—the prisoner had asked me if he might call that afternoon, and I said "No"—I knew she was going out, but not with the prisoner—I thought she might have been going for a walk with some friends, or going to call on somebody, or I should have objected—he did not show me the licence when he said he had it—I said I was sorry my daughter had given him her word to marry him—that was on the Tuesday when he gave her the engagement ring—he had a case of rings for her to choose from—he told me he had met her three or four years ago—my daughter did not contradict him—I asked her a great many questions about him, but I don't remember what they were—I have no other daughter—she told me they had met before at balls, or something of the kind—I forget what she said—I don't know that I ever saw the licence—he said when in England he stayed at the Grand Hotel, London—he told me that he was a wealthy man, and I believed him—I knew my daughter was going with him to Worthing on Tuesday; I did not object—my daughter told me for the first time after he had gone on Tuesday evening that she was going to marry him—I did not inquire at the Clarendon for the missing man, or at the Grand Hotel, London—I got a friend to inquire at the docks where he said his ship was.

Re-examined. I was first examined at the police-court after the prisoner was in custody, about the middle of July—I had not up to that time put down in writing the details of what passed each day.

By the COURT. The prisoner told me he was going a two years' voyage to Australia, India, and China before be came back.

By MR. WILLIAMS. I have tried to find the servants, but cannot—my letters have been returned through the dead letter office.

CHARLES MAYE . I am a wine merchant, formerly of 7, Onslow Road, Fairfield, Liverpool, and now of Brighton—I have known Mrs. Dash and her daughter for many years—I went to Brighton on 2nd April to attend the volunteer review—I saw the prisoner at Mrs. Dash's between 6 and 7 p.m. on that day for the first time—Miss Dash was in the room, and I think a lady whom I did not know—I think the name was Somers—I was introduced to the prisoner as Captain James Macdonald, and after conversing with him for a few minutes he went out—I heard that Miss Dash was engaged to be married to him—he returned in about three-quarters of an hour and stayed the evening, and conversed on ordinary topics—I saw him again the next evening (Good Friday), and he went to St. James's Church with Mrs. and Miss Dash, Miss Lewis, myself, and I think Mr. Osborne—after service we went into the vestry to arrange the hour for the next morning, and saw Mr. Mallaby—8 o'clock was fixed—we then returned to the house—I do not remember whether the name of the vessel was mentioned—he left about 9.45—I arranged with Mrs. Dash and her daughter to give the bride away—I did so the following morning, and we went into the vestry and signed the register—we then all went to the Clarendon Hotel, which is about a third of a mile from the church—there was a cloth on the table, but I do not think breakfast was ready—we breakfasted, and I saw them off to Chichester

—I did not see the prisoner again till I saw him at the police-court—I have not the slightest doubt that the prisoner is the man.

By the COURT. I heard him speak at the police-court—there is a little peculiar accent, perhaps Scotch, about it, but not very much.

By the JURY. It was the same voice.

Cross-examined. It is an ordinary Scotch accent—I see no difference in the man except that he has cut a little of his beard off; I think that is noticeable—I described him before the Magistrate thus: "I should think he is 5ft. 7in.; eyes blue I should fancy; ordinary brown hair, not grey to my knowledge"—I did not know that there were many volunteers staying at the Clarendon—I now live at York Road, Hove, not exactly Brighton, about one and a half miles from where Mrs. Dash was living—she now lives in the same house that I do.

REV. JOHN JACKSON MALLABY . I am a clerk in Holy Orders, of 10, Dorset Gardens, Brighton, vicar of St. James's—on 4th April last I married James Macdonald to Emma Dash at that church—I believe most certainly that the prisoner is the man—he called at my house about 7 o'clock p.m. on the Wednesday before Good Friday, when we had a conversation about the marriage, and again I believe on Good Friday evening—the marriage was by licence—licences are destroyed afterwards—they are merely the authority like banns.

Cross-examined. Mine is a fairly large church—I don't suppose I have married half a dozen persons there this year—we only marry those who actually live in the parish—I dare say when I saw the prisoner it was dusk enough on each occasion to have the gas lighted—I don't know that I notice any difference in the prisoner—I am not sure that his hair was not parted in the middle; it seemed better and closer cut—nothing specially strikes me.

REV. BENJAMIN KIRBY . I am a clerk in Holy Orders and curate at St. James's, Brighton—I saw the prisoner once or twice previously to the Saturday they were married—one occasion was on Good Friday evening, when they came into the service—he came in very late and sat next me for a couple of hours—he had with him Mrs. Dash, Miss Dash, and Miss Lewis, and a man something like 6ft. 4in.; I don't know his name. [MR. MAYE stood forward.] That is the man—he had on a velvet coat—the prisoner is the man who sat next me—I remember him because they made so much disturbance in coming in late that I had to pause in the service.

Cross-examined. I gave Mr. Hicks, the prisoner's master, a description of the man who sat next me—I said he was a jolly-looking fellow, that he had a beard something like the Prince of Wales's, but darker, and the top of his head was very big—he said that was a very accurate description, but it could not be the man, but must be something very like him—I do not remember saying he was about Mr. Hicks's height and build—I was just going into church to take a service—there is not the slightest difference between the prisoner and the man who sat next me.

Re-examined. I came to Guildhall—Messrs. Lewis and Lewis sent me no fee—I knew the prisoner immediately I saw him in Court—I was examined as a witness—the prisoner was not in the dock, but in the body of the Court—I suppose it was before the Alderman came in—I was seated I suppose on the solicitor's seat.

ALFRED BRIDCOT . I am a commercial traveller—I was at Mrs. Dash's

house, 10, Broad Street, Brighton, on the Thursday evening before Good Friday, when I saw the prisoner, to whom I was introduced.

Cross-examined. I was with him for about half an hour—it was about 8 p.m.—I do not see the slightest alteration in the prisoner—he might have grown his beard, perhaps; or some little matter of detail.

Re-examined. I only saw him on one occasion, and afterwards when I saw him in the middle of July he was in custody.

Tuesday, September 22nd, 1885.

AMY LEWIS . I live at 12, Little Stanhope Street, Mayfair—I was at Mrs. Dash's house on Good Friday, where I saw the prisoner for the first time—I knew he was engaged to Miss Dash—I went to church in the evening with Mrs. Dash, Mr. Maye, Miss Dash, and Captain Macdonald—we all returned to Mrs. Dash's—the next day I attended the wedding, and we went to the Clarendon Hotel to breakfast—I went to the railway station and saw them off to Chichester—I returned home on the Monday following—the prisoner came to my house on Tuesday afternoon, the 7th, and asked if his wife was there—she was not, and I told him so—he stayed some time, and asked if I had a Bradshaw—I had not, but I gave him an "A B C"—that would not do, and he went out and got a Bradshaw—there was a telegram for him at my house, and he told me he had sent one in reply when he went out—I went with him to Victoria Station to meet his wife—I think we saw three trains in, but she did not arrive, and I proposed to go back and see if she had arrived, which I did—he afterwards returned with Mr. Osborne, and left my house about 8.50—I did not see him again until 13th July, when I at once recognised him, at Mr. Grant's.

Cross-examined. I am certain the prisoner is the man—I see no difference in him now to when I saw him at the wedding—we had champagne at the breakfast, and the prisoner drank some, I am certain—I believe I saw Mr. Osborne upon the Friday before the recognition day—he told me he had met Captain Macdonald: that he was certain he was the man—he said the Captain was coming to Mr. Grant's drawing-room, so I expected to see him there—I had a conversation with Miss Dash before I met him there—I did not say anything to the prisoner about the missing tooth—I did not say "You have got a tooth out too, Captain," and he did not say to me "I have got it in my pocket."

Re-examined. I called Miss Dash's attention to it—I believe I put my hand on his chin and said "Open your mouth," which he did—I don't think I said anything more to Miss Dash about it.

SAMUEL WILLIAM PAGE . I am a cab proprietor and driver, of Brighton—I drove the prisoner and Miss Dash to the White Hart, Lewes, in a Victoria, on Sunday, 29th March—I took them up opposite the Aquarium—on the Tuesday I drove them to Worthing, the Marine Hotel—they stayed there about two hours and a half, when I drove them back to Brighton—the parties are the same.

Cross-examined. I have been 15 years a driver at Brighton, and have driven a good many couples to Worthing, and other places in the neighbourhood, in a Victoria—it only holds two.

WALTER M. HUDSON . I am an architect in the office of the Metropolitan Board of Works—I was at Mrs. Dash's house on Easter Monday after the review was over—I saw Miss Dash and the prisoner arrive at the house—I think he did not remain more than 10 minutes—I next saw

him on 2nd September in the Meat Market, where I instantly recognised him.

Cross-examined. It might have been about 8 p.m. when I saw him at Brighton—it was after the Review and I had had my dinner—I went to the Meat Market with the detective (Cross) for the purpose of identifying him.

Re-examined. The detective was not with me in the Market—I went through twice and the prisoner was not there; I went through again, and recognised him—the detective went through the Market, and came out and said, "He is there now"—I had previously told him that he was not there—it was in the shop of a Mr. Hicks—the detective might have been away from me three or four minutes—I had carefully looked on each side of me, and I must have looked in Mr. Hicks's shop as much as any other, but not specially because I did not know any particular shop where he might be.

HENRY CLARKE OSBORN . I am a builder and decorator, of 59, Stanhope Street, Regent's Park—I was at Mrs. Dash's house on Good Friday between 8 and 9 p.m. after they had been to church—I was introduced to the prisoner as a gentleman who was going to marry Miss Dash—I was in his company an hour or so—the next morning I went to the wedding, and afterwards I went with them to the breakfast at the Clarendon, and saw them off by train—the prisoner is undoubtedly the same man who married Miss Dash—I next saw him on Easter Tuesday at the Victoria Station, I having left Brighton at 5 o'clock—he was waiting there to receive his wife—he was talking with a lady of the name of Somers I believe, and he said to me, "Where is Emmy?"—I said, "I do not know, I have not seen her since about 11 this morning"—I called then to bid her good-bye—he said he could not understand why she had not come—I said, "I do not know, I am very sorry," and I suggested that we should stay until the next train from Brighton, which we did—he invited Mrs. Somers and myself to have some coffee, which we did in the waiting-room—we stopped there about half an hour—Mrs. Somers did not stay—I suggested that he should come in a cab with me to Miss Lewis's, and I said that perhaps Emmy had sent a telegram there—on our arrival at Miss Lewis's his wife had sent a telegram—I believe the sum and substance of it was to the effect that she was out at the time his telegram arrived, and would not be able to come to Stanhope Street till about 10 o'clock that night—he represented to me and Miss Lewis that he had been before the Board that day and refused to take this ship—then he pulled out a telegram from his pocket and said that he had received it from a friend of his who was on the Board, or was present at the Board at the time, to say that the Board expressed their surprise to find that he should refuse to take this vessel, and they thought it was a very fine chance for him, and in the meantime he had telegraphed to the Board to say that he would accept of the vessel which was then lying at Plymouth, and had laid there two days waiting with a pilot on board, and that it would cost 200l. a day for a vessel to lie at Plymouth with a pilot on board—he did not give me the name of the vessel—he said he had agreed to take it—after that he sent for a Bradshaw to find the best route to Plymouth, and he made out there was a train leaving Paddington Station at 9 o'clock—he said he would not have the sack from the Company for 10,000l.—he ultimately left me a little before 9 o'clock

near Hertford Street leading to Park Lane—he got into a cab there—I have been examined and had my evidence taken down by a solicitor—he had a black bag—when he went I said, "Good-bye and good luck to you"—I did not hear any direction given to the cabman—he said he should travel all night, as he wanted to get to the vessel at 5 o'clock in the morning—the next time I saw him was at Walham Green at the Butchers' Almshouses garden party, which I believe was on 9th July—he was in a Highland dress—when I recognised him I patted him on the shoulder and said, "Halloa. Mac! I didn't know you were ashore," he shook hands with me, and after a moment's hesitation he said, "Ashore! what do you mean?"—I said, "Well, I take you to be Captain Macdonald, who married Miss Dash, of No. 10, Broad Street, Brighton, at St. James's Church, on Saturday after the Good Friday, between 8 and 9 in the morning"—he said, "It must have been my brother or my apparition; I should like to have had the pleasure"—he afterwards said to me, "Are you in the trade?"—I said, "No, I am not in the trade, but I have some men here who are in the trade, and of position, I believe"—when he said it must have been his brother or his apparition I said, "If I have made a mistake I will apologise, but if you are not the man I never saw him"—he asked me if I was in the trade because I was stockily built, I suppose, and some butchers are—when I mentioned three gentlemen in the trade, Mr. Grant, Mr. Kalkick, and Mr. Peter Toker, he said he knew them well—then I went to the marquee where the dancing was about to take place, where I saw Mr. Grant—the prisoner asked me several times if I would buy some tickets—I said no, I had done buying tickets for the day—I made an arrangement with Mr. Grant, and went to his house about the 13th to meet the prisoner—I previously went to fetch Miss Dash and Miss Lewis—I went to the room first; Miss Lewis entered, and then Miss Dash—Miss Lewis turned round directly she saw the prisoner, and said to Mrs. Grant, "He is the man," and I believe she said, "May God forgive you"—Miss Dash said, "Donald, how dare you stand there and deny me? You know you are the man. How can you wipe that scar from your forehead? and what about your tooth? Why don't you own me? You know you are the man. Say yes, and I will forgive you if you will only own me"—he said, "If I say yes then it will all be over"—I said, "Remember if you say yes you commit yourself," and after that he said he wished for something to be settled by the Wednesday, if not he should send his family away and take the consequences—he asked Miss Dash if she would go to his home and see his wife, and the thing would be explained—Miss Dash was crying and pleading for him to own her, and she objected to go to his wife.

Cross-examined. I stayed at the Victoria Hotel, Brighton, of which Mr. Campbell is the manager, the first night, and afterwards in private apartments—the prisoner said in Mr. Grant's room "Do you think a man in my position would do such a thing?"—I was at the Victoria Hotel on Saturday night after the bridal party had gone to Chichester—I know the people who keep the Victoria—it is highly respectable as far as I know.

WILLIAM COGGAN . I live at 5, Pond Street, Belgravia, and am a butcher—I know the prisoner quite well, personally since he has been with Mr. Blofield two years, but by sight for the last ten years—I was at Worthing at the commencement of June; my wife and family

were staying there nine weeks previously—I was there at Easter—I came to town on the Saturday evening before Good Friday—I returned to Worthing on the following Tuesday, 31st March, or Wednesday, 1st April—I saw the prisoner on one of those occasions; I am not prepared to say which—I believe it was in the week previous to Good Friday; it was the week of Good Friday, not the week previous—he was on the beach or parade with a lady—I did not speak to him—I returned to town that same evening—I saw the prisoner the following morning in the market; the usual place—I spoke to him; I am not prepared to say who spoke first, but I do remember saying "I saw you at Worthing yesterday"—whether it was before I made that remark or after I am not prepared to say, but his words were "Had I not seen you in London" or "at this market yesterday, I could have sworn that I saw you at Worthing"—I asked him who the young lady was that he had with him—he replied "A lady from Brighton; a friend from Brighton"—nothing more passed except that I joked him on the subject of the young lady, and others who were present did so too.

Cross-examined. Mr. Blofield was close by, and other gentlemen customers of the market—I could not positively say which of us began the conversation, but I am quite prepared to think he did—I would not pledge my oath that it was in Good Friday week at all, but I believe it was.

SIDNEY BLOFIELD . I live at 167, Highbury New Park, and am a meat salesman in the Central Meat Market—I know the prisoner; he was in my employment some time ago—he left the last day in June this year—he was in my employment at Easter—his usual hours at work were from 4 o'clock in the morning till we finished, which would be from 12 to 1 o'clock, sometimes as late as 5 o'clock—on the Thursday before Good Friday I mentioned to him that as we should be closed on Good Friday and Easter Monday, and there would be very little business doing on Saturday at holiday time, if he liked to take a half day on Saturday he could on that day—he said he would, and he did—I next saw him at the meat market on Tuesday morning as usual at 4 o'clock—I believe I went away about 11 or 12 o'clock, and left the prisoner there—he would stop till he was sold out—at that time he was living in Essex Road, Islington—he did not ask for a Saturday half-holiday.

Cross-examined. I think it was on the Wednesday that I offered him the half-holiday—he did not ask me for it—I said I was not going away, and it was not necessary for two of us to be there—he accepted it—I asked him on the Thursday if he was coming on Saturday—the last time I saw him on Thursday was about 12 o'clock—we generally finish up from 12 to 1 o'clock—I don't know what time we finished that day; I have no book that would show it—he was paid so much per week—on the Tuesday after Easter he came at 4 o'clock in the morning as usual—I had no reason to suspect that he was not coming—there is no telegraph office in the Meat Market; there is one opposite at the corner of St. John Street—there are two or three telegraph offices nearer than St. Martin's-le-Grand—the prisoner is now in the employ of Mr. Hicks—the prisoner is a staunch teetotaler—he was with me 16 months—I have known him slightly nine years—I have always known him as a total abstainer; he is held up as a model of such in the market—he will not even go into a public-house to have a cup of coffee.

HENRY HICKS . I am a meat salesman at No. 32 in the Central Meat Market—I live at Highbury—the prisoner is now in my service, and I hope he will be for many years—he has been in my service since 1st July—this letter of 16th September, 1885, is the prisoner's writing. (Read: "32, Central Meat Market, 16th July, 1885. Dear Sir,—I am sorry to have to trouble you on your holiday, but I think it my duty to let you know how things are. You remember my saying that I was claimed as a Mr. Macdonald at the garden party, and treating the matter as a joke. Mr. Grant asked me to meet the person at his house, and I willingly did so. The young lady, to my surprise, was of the same mind, the result being that I had to appear at the Guildhall this morning, and the case has been put off till Thursday 2 o'clock, and out on bail. I am able to clear myself, so I hope you will not let the matter spoil your trip. I must say that my position is not at all comfortable, but have no fear but that all will come right.—I am, yours faithfully, J. Malcolm.")

Cross-examined. I am President of the Market Association, and am a member of the Court of Common Council—I went to Brighton after the prisoner's apprehension to make inquiries, and saw the curate, Mr. Kirby—the first thing I did was to ask Mr. Kirby to describe the man—he gave me a description—I certainly should not have recognised the prisoner from that description—he did not describe the prisoner to me, he described another man altogether—on 8th July, after the Butchers' Garden Party, the prisoner came to me and told me of his own accord what had taken place—I went with the prisoner for the purpose of making inquiry at Mr. Chodwick Brown's, the dentist, either the last day or two of July or the first day or two of August—I made inquiry of the dentist—that was after the charge was brought against the prisoner—on 8th or 9th July I remember his being racked with toothache in my counting-house—I saw him the next day or the day after—he was not then suffering from toothache—I can't swear definitely that I then saw that he had a tooth extracted; I missed it afterwards—on Tuesday, 2nd April, I saw the prisoner at 12 o'clock at Messrs. Pearce's, the solicitor in Giltspur Street, with reference to this agreement (produced)—he was to come into my service in consequence of this agreement—he would be materially benefited by so doing in a peauniary point of view, to such a degree that he would be likely to make his fortune; it is my belief and hope that it would be so. (The agreement was put in and taken as read.) I was away when he was taken into custody—he had the entire control of my business; if he had wished to abscond he could have done so with a large sum of money—he signed cheques for me—I had a good balance at my bankers' at the time—I always have had, and still have, unlimited confidence in him—since he has been out on bail he has continued to have the same privilege of signing cheques as before—I have been in the habit of seeing him from day to day, both before he entered my employment and since—there is not much alteration in his appearance; if any, it is that his beard is a little longer than it was—he has not cut his beard or whiskers—I never saw them quite so long as now, but there is not a great deal of difference—he has been a total abstainer from his birth, I believe—I have tried very hard, and have never yet been able to find any one who has ever seen him drink any alcoholic drink—he signed this agreement in my presence—(Looking at the register) this has a certain resemblance to the prisoner's handwriting, but I am

able to say from all I know that it is not his handwriting; I mean, from looking at the signature I should be sorry to say it was, and I should be sorry to say it was not—there is a certain resemblance, certainly—I say the same as to the second register—I should like to see a letter that was put in at the police-court signed Symonds, and dated from the Strand—Messrs. Lewis and Lewis had it—this paper with the word "Darling" on it is not in the prisoner's handwriting, to the best of my belief; I should be much more decided about that than the other—(Looking at the affidavit made before the Surrogate) I will swear that this signature is not the prisoner's handwriting.

Re-examined. I first saw these registers on the Monday after the prisoner's apprehension; I saw one at Brighton, I think, not both—I can point out a material difference between the two registers—I should imagine they are signed by the same person, but I could point out a difference which an expert would point out—I do not doubt that both registers were signed by the same person—I am only pointing out that the signatures are not alike—I say there is some similarity to the handwriting of the prisoner; I will not say a great similarity—I can point out a difference between the "Macdonald" in the register and the "Macdonald" in this letter—the "M" in the register begins with a round dot; in the register there is no dot; and in the second register there is no turn to the "d," though there is in the other—there is another difference, there is a distinct hiatus in the register between the "a" and the "c," and there is none here.

By MR. WILLIAMS. I believe that the registers are not signed by the same man that wrote this, and I am more confirmed in that belief than I was half an hour ago.

By the JURY. The agreement is dated 2nd April—he had given notice to his last employer at that time—I did not take Mr. Malcolm into my employment, or enter into any agreement, till I had seen Mr. Blofield some weeks before—the reason why this agreement was signed on 2nd April (it came into operation on 1st July) was because Mr. Malcolm was salesman to Mr. Blofield, and had to give him notice, and three months would be the usual notice—I told Mr. Blofield to take his own time, for him to come into my employment, on 1st June or 1st July, and he said 1st July—Mr. Pearce prepared the agreement—it was signed in my office, and he witnessed it.

THOMAS GREENWAY RYDER . I am an assistant in the Vicar-General's Office, Doctors' Commons—that is one of the places where applications are made for marriage licences—I prepared this affidavit on 1st April—it was made for the purpose of obtaining a marriage licence—I took the instructions—I filled up the document from what the man told me—my attention was called to this matter yesterday—I do not recollect who the person was that I took the instructions from—I saw him sign the affidavit—it was sworn before the Surrogate, and the licence was made out and delivered—I have no recollection of the time of day.

JOHN PICKUP . I am a clerk to the New Zealand Shipping Company—they are owners of the steam ship Kaikoura, which trades to New Zealand—I produce the ship's articles, showing a voyage commenced on 9th March this year—she returned and was discharged on 21st June—the master was William Caius Crutchley.

WILLIAM CROSS (City Detective). On 16th July the defendant was

given into my custody on a charge of bigamy—he gave me the name of Malcolm—he said he knew nothing about it, and was not there—he gave his address 251, Essex Road, Islington, where he lived with his wife.

GEORGE SMITH INGLIS . My place of business is at 8, Red Lion Square, Holborn—I am an expert in handwriting—since the death of Mr. Chabot I have been from time to time employed in handwriting and giving evidence in Courts of Justice—there is no doubt whatever that the signatures to the two registers are in the same handwriting—I have compared these two signatures of James Macdonald with this letter of 16th July, signed Jas. Malcolm—I find the word Macdonald in this letter (marked "C") written by the prisoner—in my judgment they are written by one and the same individual—I have no doubt whatever on the subject—I have also compared the signatures in the registers with other parts of the letter; that comparison confirms my opinion—if necessary I can point another out.

By the COURT. I have my reasons written out (handing in a paper)—I have made facsimiles for reference—I see the word "darling" on this piece of paper—I have compared that with the body of the letter marked "C"—in my judgment it is the same writing, but written a little finer—there are the letters "ing" in certain words in the letter—I have put down my reasons for coming to the conclusion that the word "darling" is in the same handwriting as the body of the letter—I had not examined it before yesterday—the signature J. Malcolm to the letter is formed with a different M to the M in Macdonald—the signature to the letter and to the agreement seem to be the same—my comparisons relate to the body of the letter.

Cross-examined. I have had the pleasure of meeting you before, and been cross-examined by you—Juries have not always adopted my views—they have not given a verdict in accordance with my evidence.

By the COURT. The capital "D" in "Darling" and in "Dear Sir" in the letter is a similar form of letter—the only difference is that the down stroke is a little more slanting and has a bigger loop—one is much finer than the other—in the "a" in "Darling" there is a leading up line, it crosses the down stroke; that is the round part of the "D"—in one it does not pass; in the other it doe✗s—there are nine similar instances.

The following Witnesses were called for the Defence.

JAMES HORNE PEARCE . I am a solicitor, of 8, Giltspur Street—in April last I was solicitor to Mr. Hicks—I prepared this agreement between Mr. Hicks and the prisoner—it was signed in my office the day it bears date, the 2nd April—I was witness to it—I have my attendance book here.

Cross-examined. I think it was early in the morning, but I am not certain—I prepared the agreement at Mr. Hicks's request—he did not come with the prisoner to sign it—Malcolm came a day or two previously—he signed it on the 2nd.

Re-examined. Looking at my attendance book of 2nd April I am able to say that both parties were present on that day when the agreement was signed—Mr. Malcolm came on Wednesday the 1st.

By MR. POLAND. I can't say whether that was in the morning—it is some distance down the list of persons who called—I have no recollection of the time—he came for the purpose of having the agreement engrossed.

By the COURT. Mr. Malcolm's name is down on the 1st—I saw him, but I cannot say at what time—I have a diary—that would not assist me.

ISABELLA GREIG MALCOLM . I am an assistant teacher at the Edinboro' Road Board School, Notting Hill, and live at 44, Ilbert Street, Queen's Park, Harrow Road—on Sunday, 29th March, I was at my brother's, the prisoner's house—I arrived there about a quarter-past 12 in the day—he was at home and his wife—I saw him—I remained there till about 7 in the evening—he was there when I left—I remained there the whole of the time—my brother did not go out during the day—I went to his house again on the following Thursday about 6 in the evening—I did not see my brother at that time—I remained there about half an hour—I returned between 7 and 8, and I saw him about 11 that night—I remember the Sunday, the 29th March, because on Saturday, 28th, my youngest brother Robert sailed for Port Adelaide—when I came there on the Thursday I stayed there during the whole of my holiday—I stayed there till the following Sunday week—I was there on Tuesday the 7th—I saw my brother that day—he came home about 6 that evening—he went out a little after 7—he came in a little before 9, or it may have been 9—he went away for a holiday on the Good Friday morning—the next time I saw him was on the Tuesday—I have holidays at Easter—they commenced on the Thursday before the Friday.

Cross-examined. I was not examined before the Magistrate—until my brother was charged with this matter I did not know there was any particular importance in these dates—I first heard of this charge on the Friday after the first hearing before the Magistrate—I generally go to my brother's on a Sunday, not every Sunday—I don't think I was there on the Sunday before the 29th; no, I was not there, I am quite sure—I can't remember whether I was there the Sunday before; I have not been thinking over these Sundays—I was not there on the Sunday after 12th April—I do not remember the following Sundays, the 19th or 26th—on the 29th I went home, that was one of my ordinary Sunday visits—I was at the school on the Thursday, we broke up at 12; it might have been about 1 when I left school—I got to my brother's house about 6; he was not at home when I got there—from that night I slept there with the exception of Easter Sunday and Monday; all the rest of the time I was there—I was there Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, and on Sunday I left and went to Cricklewood and returned on Monday evening—on the Thursday I first saw my brother about 11 at night—he remained in that night—I don't know at what time he started on the Friday, I did not see him on the Friday, he went before I was up—I should say I came down about 9; he had gone then—I understood on the Thursday night that he was going to Cornwall, not to Brighton—when I saw him on the following Tuesday he told me he had not been to Cornwall; until then I had no idea that he had been to Brighton, or his wife either, as far as I know—I had not been to work on the Tuesday—I saw him at 6 that evening—we had conversation and he did several things that night and went out I should say a little after 7—he came in again a little before 9—I had not had supper—I had supper about 9—he had a glass of milk for supper, that was all he had.

Re-examined. Besides the prisoner I have no other brother, except the one that went to Adelaide—I have no doubt whatever that he went on the 28th, or that I was at my brother's on the 29th—I heard him say

that he was going to Cornwall with Mr. Williamson—when he returned on the Tuesday he made no secret of his having been to Brighton.

NATHANIEL WILLIAMSON . I live at 147, Offord Road, Barnsbury—I am a shopman—I remember Sunday, 29th March—I saw the prisoner on that day about 3 o'clock in the afternoon, at his house in Essex Road—I stayed there till between 7 and 8 o'clock that evening—he was in the house when I left—I had a conversation with him as to going for a holiday—he said he was going to make arrangements to go into Derbyshire; he was going to call in a week and let me know—the place was not definitely settled—I did not see him again till the Wednesday night, between 7 and half-past—our shop closes at 8 o'clock, and it had not closed at the time—he came there and told me that the arrangement for Derbyshire had been broken up, and he said he had been offered the Saturday, and he said did I think there was any probability of my being allowed the Saturday; I said I did not know, but I would inquire—he said if I got my Saturday we should take a train to Cornwall—I have known him for three years past—he devotes his spare time to photography and taking views—he said he would take down his machine to take views, and collect some microscopic objects if possible—he then left—I next saw him on the Thursday night, about the same time, at my master's shop, 224, Upper Street, Islington—he asked if I had succeeded in getting the Saturday off—I said I had not been definitely answered, I had not yet had the answer, but if he would call after we had closed I should be able to tell—I waited until the shop closed and then went outside—the prisoner came up a minute after—we went for a short walk, and I told him I had failed in getting it—he said he was very sorry—he asked me where I should like to go—I said I did not know, I was not particular, I had been scarcely anywhere—we then made arrangements that we should go down to Brighton—I was to go down on the Sunday morning and meet him at the station at Brighton—he told me to come by the train from London Bridge about 9 o'clock—he said it was too late for him to think of going then, he should start in the morning; that would be Good Friday morning—on the Sunday I went to Brighton—I started from London Bridge about 9—when I got to Brighton I saw Mr. Malcolm on the platform; while on the platform he introduced me to a young lady, Miss Jay—we three remained on the platform having some conversation—he asked Miss Jay what she was doing there—she said she had come there to spend a holiday—he said we had just done the same—the prisoner arranged to meet her in the afternoon at 2 o'clock—we did meet her—up to that time I had been in the prisoner's company—we had luncheon at the Clarendon—that was before we met Miss Jay again—we left the Clarendon about a quarter to 2 o'clock, and strolled along to the pier—we met Miss Jay there, and we hired a four-wheeled fly and all three went to Shoreham, to the Bridge Hotel—we remained there about an hour, and then drove back to Brighton—the cab was dismissed, and Miss Jay said she would go and wish her friends good-night—I left Brighton about 10 minutes past 7 o'clock for London Bridge—Mr. Malcolm saw me off by the train—I saw Miss Jay there on the platform; she travelled up to London with me.

Cross-examined. I have known the prisoner about three years—I am very distantly related to his wife—I am frequently at his house—my shop is 10 or 15 minutes' walk from his house—I was not at his house the

Sunday before 29th March or the Sunday before—I was possibly the Sunday before that—I was asked about this in July when the prisoner was in custody—I was not examined before the Magistrate—I know the prisoner has been to Brighton, but I don't know that he has on many occasions—I have heard over and over again of his going to Brighton, but I cannot give you any dates—when we met Miss Jay he said "Wait a moment, there is a young lady I know"—I suppose she came by the same train—I had never seen her before—I was going to Cornwall with him for the holidays—the day after the Sunday we were at Brighton was Bank Holiday—I did not stop the Monday, because I had arranged to go for a drive—I did not go for the drive—I have never been with the prisoner on any other Sunday—on the Wednesday and Thursday I have spoken of I saw him at my shop—we talked about going to Derbyshire some time before that.

Re-examined. I spent Easter Sunday with the prisoner and Miss Jay—I asked for a holiday before that, and did not get it—I did not dream this.

Wednesday, September 23rd.

EMMA FLINT . I am the wife of Frederick Flint, a jeweller, residing at 2, Station Place, Cricklewood—he carries on business at 24, Clerkenwell Road—I have known Mr. Malcolm from four to five years—I remember his calling on me at 24, Clerkenwell Road on Monday, 30th March—I have a partnership with my husband in the business—I go there continually—as a rule I go as early as 9.30—I saw the prisoner about 3 o'clock that afternoon—on the Tuesday evening, 31st March, a fire occurred on our premises; I saw the prisoner there from 9 to 9.30 that night, at the fire—I had seen him before that on the Tuesday, about 1 o'clock, at 24, Clerkenwell Road—his sister Lizzie had been with me on that day—the prisoner when he came about 1 o'clock inquired if his sister had been in answer to a letter that he had written to her to call on me on the Monday—I said she had been, and had left; he only remained a few minutes on that occasion—on the day of the fire my son sent a telegram to the prisoner; I did not see it sent, but it was sent, and in consequence of that Mr. Malcolm came—on the Wednesday, the day after the fire, I saw him about 1.30 at 24, Clerkenwell Road—he was there for two hours or two hours and a half—I saw him again the next day, Thursday the 2nd, about 4 o'clock—he did not stay very lone then—I did not see him again that week—I saw him on the Tuesday in the following week, about 4 o'clock; it might have been a little earlier—my husband has carried on business in Clerkenwell Road for 19 years—we never had a fire there before this—I am not any relative of the prisoner.

Cross-examined. I have known the prisoner from four to five years—I know his wife—I have not known her four or five years, I think about a year—I know where he lives at Islington—I don't know how many minutes' walk it is from 24, Clerkenwell Road; I never walked it—I have been to Essex Road, but I have always driven there; that would take about 20 minutes—I am at Clerkenwell Road almost every working day—the prisoner calls there sometimes; I may say frequently—we carry on a jewellery business, and he comes in with respect to articles he may buy of us, and repairs he may bring—I could not say whether he deals in articles of jewellery; I never asked him the question—we sell wholesale and retail—he has not bought things in quantities—I think he was there on the Friday before the Monday in the Good Friday week—I could not positively state on what day previous to that I

had seen him—he might have been there two or three days in the week before—he came in on the Wednesday in that week, and I think on the Saturday, but I could not be sure—he was there on the Thursday in the following week—I am not able to say from memory that he was not there two or three days in the following week—no one spoke to me first about my giving evidence—I had been away from home for a month, and on my return on the Friday after the first hearing at Guildhall my son handed me the newspaper—that was the first time my attention was called to this Good Friday week—I was not examined before the Magistrate—I went there, but was not called—he has purchased rings of us—I have not allowed him to have rings to show—I could not say that he has never had any rings, but if you will tell me a special time I might say—I cannot remember—I think it is quite possible that he has had rings to show, but I could not say when unless you ask me a date—I have seen Mr. Goldberg about this matter and talked the matter over with him—I had seen the prisoner before that, he did not say "Do you remember I came to you?"—he did not speak to me, not a word, I spoke to him—I had read an account in the paper, and in consequence of that I spoke to him—I think I told to Mr. Goldberg, the prisoner's solicitor, the same story as I have to-day—he took down my evidence—that was after I had had the conversation with the prisoner—the evidence I have given about the fire is true—I did not give the prisoner any rings on approbation in Easter week, or the week before.

By the COURT. His business transactions were of frequent occurrence, he often purchased—there were no business transactions in the week in which Good Friday occurred, business was entirely suspended on account of the fire—on the Monday and Tuesday we were in business—there were no business transactions within a fortnight of Good Friday in regard of rings—I could not say whether there was any business transaction without referring—I am so positive about rings because I have been asked about rings before, I don't know the gentleman who asked me—that is the gentleman (Cross, the detective)—he asked me about rings—we have books, they are not here—my husband referred to the books, to Mr. Cross when he came—I have referred to them, I think after Mr. Cross called—my husband looked first, and I after Mr. Cross called; I don't know the day he called, I did not make a note of it—I am in the habit of making a note of things, I often do, we have a Blackwood's diary and we enter things in that, I have not got it here—I sometimes make notes in it—I remember the last time I entrusted the prisoner with rings on approval, it was the 11th of April—I could not say how many I entrusted him with then, I don't think it would be 20, it might have been 10; I don't think he deals in jewellery—he came in and told me that Mr. Sawtell wanted a ring for a lady—Mr. Sawtell is Blofield and Co. in the market, I believe; he said he wanted a good article, a good ring—I don't think I ever entrusted him with any before 11th April, it is an unusual thing to send out rings—all our transactions with him would not appear in our books, nothing hardly; ours is nearly all sale trade, scarcely anything else; ours is a sale trade, over the counter chiefly—our Blackwood's diary would not show, I have looked, and that or some other book would show what rings we have entrusted to him—rings entrusted to him or anybody else would appear either in the diary or some other book—they were diamond rings, sapphires, emeralds, and so on ten

rings would not be all the same, they were all stone rings—I think he brought them all back, I can't say without looking again at my book—there is no difficulty in bringing my book, my son can bring it when I return, I have only one book—we have a day-book, a cash-book, a ledger, an approval-book, and Blackwood's diary, no others.

By MR. POLAND. Cross called on me, I think, after the second adjournment at Guildhall—he asked me if I knew Malcolm; I think he asked me if I had supplied him with any rings in the Easter week—I did not decline to tell him and say that my husband told me not to say; I told him he had had no rings—I don't think I declined to tell him on the first occasion, I told him "No, he had had no rings"—I don't think I declined to tell him, or words to that effect; I feel sure I said no—there was no one in but the painter when Cross called—I did not look at my books when he first called, to try and refresh my memory—I did not at any time tell him that my husband had told me not to say—no one had been about rings before Cross called—I went to the police-court, I was told to go—I had not heard Miss Dash give evidence there; I went to Guildhall, but I did not hear Miss Dash speak—before Cross called I had not seen anybody connected with Malcolm's defence—he called a second time; I think he called on Friday in the first instance and on Monday in the second instance—he called about the rings the second time—I did not then tell him that I had not found that I had supplied Malcolm with rings in the Easter week, I believe my husband did in my presence; we both of us had not found that Malcolm had any rings an the Easter week.

By MR. WILLIAMS. I had not heard anything about any rings till the detective called.

SIDNEY BLOFIELD (Recalled by MR. WILLIAMS ). I remember the prisoner bringing some rings to show to my partner, Mr. Sawtell, on approbation—I do not remember to a week when that was, it was some time in April.

By MR. POLAND. I saw them myself, it was a case of fancy rings—I could not undertake to say what day it was, it was about the middle of April—he was in the habit of getting rings for several of us on approbation, and we could choose one out of a dozen—I have bought one of him—his friend, Mrs. Flint, was supposed to allow us to have them at the wholesale price—I have been introduced to her by him—I suppose he would get a small commission on them—I could not say positively that he constantly brought cases of rings from the Flints, more than once, several times I have seen him with cases of rings, or other jewellery, I could not say always rings, all sorts of jewellery—I have seen him with rings once or twice perhaps—he was in my service 16 months—I don't think that the occasion on which he showed rings to my partner was on one of the days in Easter week, I am sure not—I am not able to swear positively that it was not on one of the days in Easter week; it would not be Easter week, because my partner was not in town in Easter week, he only comes to business occasionally, about once a month—I cannot say it was not one of the days at the end of March that the rings were shown.

By MR. WILLIAMS. I am quite sure it was not in Easter week, because my partner was not there.

JOHN EDWARD FLACK . I am a member of the London Salvage Corps,

Commercial Road—I remember being sent for to a fire at Commercial Road on 31st March—part of the house belongs to Mr. Flint—Mrs. Flint was there at the time—I do not know who the other part belongs to—it was Mr. Flint's house—I arrived there at 5 minutes to 9 in the evening—I saw the prisoner there that evening, from a quarter past 9 to half-past 10—I cannot get at it nearer than that.

Cross-examined. I only remained in charge that night till 8 o'clock next morning; that was the only day I was there—my attention was first called to this matter some time after the examination at Guildhall; Mr. Malcolm came to me.

Re-examined. We have a book in the office at Watling Street containing the times.

By the COURT. I cannot say how long ago it was that the prisoner called on me, I almost forget the day—I cannot remember what I was doing that night at 11 o'clock, no more than being inside the building—Mr. Flint's son was there, and a friend or two of theirs—they were complete strangers to me—the prisoner was a complete stranger to me—they remained till about half-past 11—the two first floors were partly burnt out.

GEORGE BARTON (Policeman G 319). I remember the night of the fire at Mr. Flint's house in Clerkenwell Road—I was at the door of the house—I went off duty soon after half-past 9, directly after half-past 9 as near as I can remember—9 o'clock would have been my proper time, but the man who should have relieved me was called away elsewhere, and that kept me longer than I should have been—it was just turned half-past 9 when I went away from Mr. Flint's house—I saw the prisoner there that night.

Cross-examined. I did not know him before—the confusion was all over when he came, there was no confusion then—I could not say exactly how many persons I saw there that night, not 20 or 30 to go in, but more than that round the door at some part of the evening—about six or seven went in as near as I could judge—I next saw the prisoner on Friday, the 11th of this month, in Old Street, St. Luke's, in the street—he did not come and speak to me; Mrs. Flint came and spoke to me—they were on the opposite side of the road to one another—he was not pointed out to me—after I recognised him I went across and looked at him—I recognised him at once—I was not called before the Magistrate.

Re-examined. I have no doubt that he is the man I saw that evening—he went into the house—he wanted to push by, and I asked what he wanted—he said, "I want to see Mrs. Flint"—I pushed the door open a little way; Mrs. Flint saw him and said, "It's all right, he is a friend of ours," and on that I let him in.

By the COURT. I remember some of the 20 or 30 persons that went in, but I could not say at the same time—some I knew, some were strangers—the prisoner spoke to me after he pushed by me, when he was inside—altogether I might have seen him two or three minutes—what made me recognise him more was he chaffed me for not letting him in at first—there was nothing extraordinary about his person, only his appearance I took notice of—there was nothing particular about his appearance, I saw nothing, only an ordinary man as you may see anywhere else—I noticed him when he spoke to me.

HARRY BLADON . I live at 16, Clerkenwell Road—I remember the fire

at Mrs. Flint's, I was there—I did not know the prisoner before that night—I saw him there that night inside the house, about half-past 9—I saw Flack, the fireman, there.

Cross-examined. I left the house about 10 o'clock; I was inside—I am sure it was not as late as 11; it was about half-past 9, it was not as late as 10 I know by the time I got home—I did not know the prisoner before—I saw him again at Mrs. Flint's, about a month ago; Mr. Flint took me there, and there I found the prisoner—I was taken there to see a man who was at the fire, and when I saw him I recognised him—I recollected his face so well; I noticed that his face was red, that is how I remembered it—I was not examined before the Magistrate.

Re-examined. That is the man—I got home about 10.

CHARLES COLEBRAN . I live at 34, Albert Road, St. John's Hill—I am a clerk in the Traffic Superintendent's Office of the London, Brighton, and South Coast Railway Company—I produce the guard's report of the arrival of the train leaving Brighton at 8.40 on Tuesday, 31st March—it is the guard's writing; I know his writing; his name is Saunders—I believe he is gone to Portsmouth to-day—he went at 10.25; he leaves Portsmouth again at 1.50—the Brighton train is timed to arrive at London Bridge at 10.31; it did arrive at 10.36, five minutes late—the Victoria portion of the train is left at Croydon, and goes on from there; it would be due at Victoria at 10.38—I don't know the distance from London Bridge to Essex Road.

Cross-examined. I know the times that the trains are timed to start and arrive—the London and Victoria arrivals and departures are quite correct in this ABC time-table for March and April—at Easter-time there are a good many excursion trains in addition—they begin to run on Good Friday; the Good Friday trains are like the Sunday trains—there are excursion trains to all parts on Good Friday—there are a good many extra trains on Good Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

GEORGE BUCKOKE . I live at 1, Orleans Terrace, Crown Road, St. Margaret's, Twickenham—I am a journeyman butcher in the employ of Mr. Philip Binns, at that address—I remember my master going from the shop at Twickenham for the purpose of getting some lambs for Easter—the prisoner called during my master's absence; it was in the Easter week, the one in which Good Friday is—it was during that week; I am sure of that—it was on the Tuesday in that week, between 2 and 3; if anything, nearer 3 than 2—he came to collect some money due to Mr. Blofield—I had a conversation with him—no money was paid to him—he said he was about to leave Mr. Blofield and go to Mr. Hicks in the market—I asked him when he was at Mr. Hicks's if he would be able to use any influence to get me an employment in the market, as I had long wished to get employment there, with Mr. Hicks—he asked where my uncle was—I said he was not at home—he said he had called for some money—I said he could not have any, as he had left none at home with us, and we could not pay him, as he was not at home to sanction our paying him, and we could not pay him any, because we had not got any in the place—he said he could not go back without some money—I said it was impossible for us to pay him any, as we had not got it—he said "I can't go back without paying some in, and I will pay 5l. in for Mr. Binns"—he said he should expect my uncle to come up next day and let him have, if not the whole

of that money, part of it—my uncle went up the next day—he is my master.

Cross-examined. Mr. Binns had started away at 1 o'clock that same day—he went to Hanwell to get the lambs—the prisoner has been two or three times to collect money; I don't recollect any times before that—I think I recollect three times his coming down after that—I can't recollect the first or second occasion—he had not come before to my knowledge; that was the first time I had seen him—I don't know the exact amount that was owing, it was more than 10l., about 30l.; it may have been 40l.—I think I heard my uncle say it was a greater amount than 15l., but what amount I don't know—I understood he was going to pay the 5l. out of his own pocket—I can't say how long Mr. Binns has dealt with Mr. Blofield—I came to him in February—I don't know whether he dealt with him all that time—I knew that some money was owing to Mr. Blofield—I told him that Mr. Binns was coming back that same day—I told him I would tell him when he came home.

JOHN PHILIP BINNS . I am a butcher, of 1, Orleans Terrace, Crown Road, St. Margaret's, Twickenham—Mr. Buckoke is my nephew—in the week in which Good Friday occurred, on the Tuesday, I went to fetch some lambs—when I returned home Buckoke told me the prisoner had been for some money for Mr. Blofield, to whom I was indebted in about 30l.—in consequence of what he said to me I went to London the next day to see Mr. Blofield, but found the shop shut—I saw a Mr. Chapman from the opposite side of the road; that would be about 1 o'clock; I paid him 3l. for Mr. Blofield—I have an entry in my book showing the payment—I have known the prisoner for about 11 years—I had never been away when he has called for money, except on that Tuesday, 31st March.

Cross-examined. I have no receipt; it is the practice of the market not to give receipts—I was at home on the Monday—I don't know whether all day; yes, I was, I had ray books and bills to do—the prisoner came to me about this matter—he had often called on me for money before—I cannot give you any dates—I was not examined before the Magistrate.

Re-examined. I did not go to fetch any lambs any other day in Easter week—I did not get any lambs that day, and went next day for them—Easter is the beginning of the season for lamb; that is why I remember it so well. (The witness produced and explained his books to the Jury).

By the JURY. That 3l. is paid by a customer's cheque.

By MR. POLAND. I paid 3l. on 18th March, 3l. on 1st April, and 3l. on 6th July; the next occasion was by cash, and the next.

WILLIAM COOPER . I am a butcher, before Tuesday, 31st March, I had arranged for the sale of some lambs to Mr. Binns, for which he came on Tuesday, 31st March; he left without them.

Cross-examined. He was there on the Monday morning—I can drive from my place to his in a little under three-quarters of ah hour—he was also at my place on the Wednesday—I cannot remember whether he was there the previous week; yes, he was—he used constantly to come to fetch what he wanted; sometimes beef and sometimes sheep—he would give me orders fur what he wanted next time.

Re-examined. He had never come before the Tuesday and gone away empty-handed—he never had any lambs to kill at home before that week—I cannot tell you exactly what time he came on the Monday—I can

tell you exactly what he had, viz., a rump and loin of beef, a pair of hind quarters of mutton and a leg of lamb—he came in his cart, and either he or I loaded it.

OSWALD FLINT . I am son of the witness Mrs. Flint, of 24, Clerkenwell Road—when the fire took place at my father's premises I sent a telegram to the prisoner, in consequence of which he came.

By the COURT. I sent it to 251, Essex Road, Islington, at about 7.30.

JOHN EDWARD BARGE . I live at 62, Upper Street, Islington, and am in the employ of Mr. Stacey, stationer—I saw the prisoner on the Thursday before Good Friday, between 5.30 and 5.45, in our shop—I had a conversation with him—I had known him before—he asked me where I was going for my holidays—I am so certain of it on account of the Good Friday following.

Cross-examined. I have known him five or six years as a customer—I knew where he lived, and knew his wife as a customer—they live about 10 minutes' walk from the shop—he would come in about three times a week—I should think I saw him about a fortnight before the Thursday, or ten days; I could not swear how long—I saw him again about the end of the week after Good Friday—I cannot swear it was the following week—I saw an account of the case in the papers—Mr. Goldberg came to take my evidence down—I mentioned it to people in the shop—I saw the prisoner the same morning.

Re-examined. I took a holiday on Good Friday, but not out of London—I wept to business on Saturday—when I mentioned it to persons in the shop I said "I am certain he was here that day."

DR. ALEXANDER REED . I am a surgeon, practising at 29, Canonbury Park, North—I saw the prisoner en the Thursday before Good Friday, between 3 and 6 o'clock, at his house, 251, Essex Road—I can fix the time by my visiting list—I was in the Caledonian Road that day soon after 12 o'clock—I take lunch between 2 and 3 o'clock—I had it at home that day, and it must have been about an hour after that I saw him.

Cross-examined. If I drove direct from my house to his it would not take more than two or three minutes—I called to see the prisoner's wife—I always take an hour when I come home, and order my carriage about 2 to 3 o'clock—I will undertake to say I did not see him as early as 2.30—it was between 3 and 6 o'clock—I called the day before, which was the first occasion—I did not see the prisoner then—I did not take a note of the time—it was after 12.

By MR. WILLIAMS. I have referred to my visiting book.

THOMAS CHODWICK BROWN . I am a dentist, and carry on business at 69, Upper Street, Islington—the prisoner came to me on 10th July, between 12 and 2 o'clock—I extracted the upper and left canine tooth for him, and he paid me on that visit a small account his brother owed me—I have an entry of it in my book (produced)—it is written by the accountant who keeps my books, and posted up from my waste book, which is destroyed at the end of the month—it was a debt contracted for a new gold spring, December 27th, and paid July 10th by Mr. Malcolm.

By the COURT. I have no entry of the extraction, but it is the payment of the account that fixes the date in my mind—no trust was given on that day, or it would be entered—when I extracted that tooth the other three canine teeth were in the prisoner's head—the tooth was aching, and that is the reason he had it out—I had in November, 1882, made for him a

partial set of false teeth for the upper jaw—I have extracted teeth for him on several previous occasions, but never an eye-tooth—I certainly had not extracted a tooth for him within six months.

By the JURY. The three canine teeth he had left were real teeth.

Cross-examined. I have no entry that shows a previous extraction—they are paid for at the time—I should say I had taken out at least half a dozen teeth for him before 10th July—some I took out were next to the canine teeth—I believe I have taken out the four central, the two central incisors and the two lateral incisors, two adjoining the canine teeth—I am speaking from memory now—one adjoining each canine tooth and the two central incisors—30 or 40 persons on an average come to me in a day—I extracted those four particular teeth when I put in the gold plate in November, 1882, I cannot say how many since—it is only an upper plate he wears—I don't think I extracted any lower teeth for him at that time.

Re-examined. The eye-tooth is a different shape from the others.

By the COURT. I have no recollection of handing the prisoner the eye-tooth I took out—it is always left at the option of the patient to take the tooth away—I do not recollect that he ever took away a tooth.

By the JURY. It is not my experience that patients generally take their teeth away, the great majority leave them—if I offer them the teeth they say they have had quite enough of them.

A JUROR. You think them a perquisite? A. A perquisite we consign to the dusthole.

WILLIAM CAMPBELL . I am manager of the Victoria Hotel, Brighton, which is in the Queen's Road about 150 yards from the station—the prisoner came there on Good Friday—I am a Scotchman, so is the prisoner—our hotel was very full at the Review on Easter Monday—I heard the prisoner ask the barmaid if he could have a bedroom there—she was uncertain—I went into the hall and asked him to wait a minute while I saw my wife, who was then in the kitchen—I called her up, and she said Mr. Malcolm could have room No. 30 for that night, and to-morrow we should have to put up a bed in No. 26 sitting-room—he said he preferred staying with us instead of going elsewhere.

By the COURT. He had not stayed with us before.

By the JURY. I did not put myself oat of the way to entertain him.

By MR. WILLIAMS. I saw him again at the hotel about 10.30—I had some conversation with him and saw him again the next morning at about 8.20—I saw him for the last time on Saturday about 10.30 p.m.—I saw him about 10.30 p.m. on Sunday—the officers of the Victoria Rifles and the Gloucestershire regiment messed at the hotel; I carved for them, and my business with them ceased at about 8.45—I saw the prisoner about 8.30 a.m. on Easter Eenday, when he paid his bill—the volunteers were then getting ready for muster outside the hotel.

Cross-examined. I have my books here, my wife keeps them; I see them the same day the entries are made (produced)—the prisoner paid me 8s. on Monday—the name "Malcolm" is here, but not the Christian name or initial—the entry is made on the 3rd April, "bedroom and attendance 8s. paid," receipted by my wife—"No. 26, Malcolm" is in my wife's writing—he was there two nights—there is a mistake in the account—my wife received the money—No. 26 was a sitting-roon—he paid a little more than 8s. according to the other book—there is little

error in this, three nights instead of two—we opened this book for Easter—this book would be made up from the other—the "bath, not had" is a mistake—that makes the entries 12s. instead of 13s.—"September 6th" in two places instead of "April" is a mistake of my wife's, which she will explain—he had no meals at my house, only bed and attendance—many go the Aquarium and Mutton's, and different places; I don't where he had his meals—I have seen him two or three times at my house since, I don't think I have on a Sunday, and I don't think he has stayed a night, I do not remember—two or three persons have come to me about the matter, and a detective, but he did not give me his name—the same chambermaid attends to Nos. 26 and 30, viz., Louisa Comber—she is here.

Re-examined. I should know the detective if I saw him. (Detective Cross stood forward. ) That is the man—I answered the questions he put to me.

By the COURT. I did not see what luggage the prisoner brought—the principal reason why I remember him is from conversation we had about Scotland, knowing lots of people and places near Aberdeen and Kintore and other places in the vicinity—independently of that, looking at his personal appearance, I most decidedly swear that the prisoner is the man.

MARIA CAMPBELL . I am the wife of William Campbell, manager of the Victoria Hotel—the prisoner came to our hotel on Good Friday, and the first night he occupied room No. 30, afterwards No. 26—on the Saturday after Good Friday I saw the prisoner about 4 p.m. when I was arranging the flowers for the officers' tables with Miss Woolgar, our barmaid; I saw him again at about 10 o'clock or or a little after—we had a gentleman staying at our hotel named Hall—the prisoner paid his bill on Easter Monday morning—I remember there was a bath charged to the prisoner which he did not have—the waitress by mistake gave the bill to Captain Wagnall—I generally keep the books—this is the rough book in which I have made an entry relating to the prisoner—I entered the word "Malcolm" on Good Friday when he came in—the rest of the entry relating to him is in my handwriting—I entered that on the Monday morning in that book—the bath is charged at 1s.—I generally keep the other book—this book is made up every night—the name that precedes the prisoner's in that book is Hall, and the entries relating to Mr. Hall as well as the prisoner are in my handwriting—in the receipt, both of Hall's account and Malcolm's, I made a mistake in the month and wrote "September" instead of "April"—I have the original account delivered to Mr. Hall (produced)—it is dated April 3rd and is not in my handwriting—it corresponds with the entry in the book which has been receipted in mistake "September"—there is an entry of the amount of Malcolm's account in that book No. 2 of 12s.—I account for the mistake of 8s. being entered in one book and 12s. in the other by the fact that we were so pushed with business that I hurriedly made up his bill from that book, when I found I had made a mistake in one night, and I then referred to this one—hot baths were always charged 1s.

Cross-examined. The room No. 30 is entered No. 26 here, because I knew Mr. Malcolm would have No. 26 the next day—No. 30 was taken for one of the officers, I arranged that on Good Friday—I made the entry the day he came—on the night of Good Friday he slept No.30;

it is entered No. 26 because I could not enter it No. 30, that being taken for one of the officers—I entered it No. 26 so that I should make no confusion in the number that would be occupied the next day—he paid 12s.—I made an omission of one night in that book—I put "paid" to these two books on the same day—I made out the account first of all from that book—I found I had made a mistake in one night, 4s. a night, and then I made out a second bill from this book—of course we do not but "paid" till we receive the money—I really cannot say how I entered "6th September" by mistake—I did not notice at the time I had made that mistake, I cannot account for it—I do not think anybody came down to see me about this matter this month, I cannot remember; yes, I think so, it was Mr. Malcolm and Mr. Barrett, I cannot remember the day they came down—I am quite sure it was not on a Sunday, I did not look to my books for them—the books were produced and shown to them—they did not take any notes from them that I am aware—I never saw the prisoner before this April and have never seen him since, until he came down in this month—I do not know where he got his meals.

Re-examined. There are a good many restaurants and other places at Brighton—I am prepared to pledge my oath that I have never written on that page since the 6th April, when I made the entry. (The books were handed to the Jury.)

By the JURY. Some of the accounts are crossed out in a different way, I cannot account for that.

EMMA WOOLGAR . I am employed as barmaid to the Victoria Hotel, Brighton—I remember the week in which Good Friday occurred, it was in April—I remember the prisoner coming in the hall of the hotel on the morning of Good Friday—I saw him on the Saturday, in the afternoon, I should think about 4 o'clock—I did not see him on the Sunday, I saw him on the Monday morning—my business would be at the bar, but not so much at Easter time—I have no doubt in my own mind that he is the same person that I saw on the Friday and Saturday.

Cross-examined. At Easter-time I see a good many people at the hotel, persons staying there and coming in—we are in the direct line from the station, and do a very large trade—I had never seen this man before—I am quite sure that I saw him on the Saturday—my attention was called to this matter about the end of July—I was asked to state what I remembered about Good Friday and Saturday; in that time I had seen hundreds of persons—I had never seen Mr. Malcolm before Easter—I have seen him since—I saw him about the end of July, he came down to Brighton about this matter—I don't remember on what day—I don't know whether he slept there that night—I can't remember what day of the week it was or how long he stopped in the house—it was not in the evening on the Monday that I saw him, it was in the morning to the best of my belief, at 8 o'clock.

Re-examined. On the Good Friday we had a number of officers and volunteers staying in the place; we had only two private gentlemen staying there, one besides the prisoner.

By the COURT. I did not know the prisoner's name when I saw him in July, I had never heard it before—I recognised him when I saw him, before he spoke—I recollected when I had seen him before—there was nothing particular about his appearance to call my attention to him; I didn't notice anything particular.

MRS. CAMPBELL (Re-examined). When Mr. Malcolm came in the house he gave his name; we always put down the name when we know it, besides the number.

ALICE DRURY . I am waitress at the Victoria Hotel, Brighton—I remember the week in which Good Friday happened—I remember the prisoner coming to our hotel—I don't remember when he came—I remember the Saturday morning, the room was let on Friday—I did not attend to the room where he slept—I first saw him in the hotel on Saturday morning, in the hall; that was the day after Good Friday—I saw him on Easter Monday, about 9 o'clock, in the hall; he was inquiring for his bill—on the Saturday morning he asked me for his boots—I am sure he is the man.

Cross-examined. I first saw him after Easter nearly two months ago, he came into the hall at the hotel—he didn't stay in the house then—it was not on a Sunday morning, it was a week day; it was some time in the afternoon—I couldn't say whether it was in July—I didn't know his name then—I first knew his name when I saw it in the visitors' book, about six weeks ago; I think that was the first time I knew his name—the chambermaid, Louisa Comber, attended to his room—he had never stayed at the hotel between Easter and six weeks ago—I know St. James's Church, it is not very far from us; it is about 10 minutes' walk from the hotel.

JEMIMA LOUISA COMBER . In the week in which Good Friday happened this year I was engaged at the Victoria Hotel, Queen's Road, Brighton, as chambermaid—I remember seeing the prisoner at that hotel in that week—on Saturday morning I saw him in the room that was to be made into a bedroom, No. 26; it was a sitting-room which for the Saturday night was to be made into a bedroom—that bed was slept in on the Saturday night to all appearance; it was prepared on the Saturday morning—I saw the prisoner on the Sunday morning in that bedroom, he was in bed—I went into the room about 9 o'clock as near as I can remember and took in some hot water—the bed had been slept in to all appearance on the Sunday night.

Cross-examined. I had been in the hotel four months up to Easter, I think; I left about two months ago—I did not know the prisoner's name then; I heard of it at Hastings after this case had been inquired into—I first saw him at Hastings after Easter—Mr. and Mrs. Malcolm were staying there in the hotel where I was; that was the August Bank Holiday, after the case had been before the police-court—on the Saturday morning I saw him between 10 and 11, as near as I can remember; that was the earliest time I saw him that morning—I have no idea where he got his meals.

Re-examined. I deal with the beds, not with the meals—between 10 and 11 they were shifting the bed from one room to the other.

MARIE HARPER . I manage the Clarendon Hotel, Brighton—I remember the week perfectly well in which Good Friday happened this year—I remember a person coming to my hotel who gave the name of Captain Macdonald—he came on the Thursday evening before Good Friday; he occupied room No. 43 on the fourth floor—I had known the prisoner before that Thursday—he is certainly not the Captain Macdonald who took the room at my place; there is a something, a resemblance without a likeness to Captain Macdonald—Captain Macdonald

was a taller man, a little taller and bigger-built man—I remember the prisoner coming to my hotel in the Good Friday week previous to Easter Sunday—he came on Good Friday evening for a bed—he came in first of all about the middle of the day, I should think, for a room; I could not give him one, I was quite full, and I recommended him to the Victoria Hotel—I remember the next day, Saturday, quite well—Captain Macdonald ordered a breakfast for four persons; champagne was drunk at that breakfast—I have got my books here; these are they (produced)—the four persons were composed of two ladies and two gentlemen—I have an entry here in my writing relating to that breakfast, it is at page 87—the entry is: "Thursday, April 2nd. No. 43, McDonald, Esq. Apartment, 5s.; attendance, 1s. 6d.; dinner, 5s.; ale, 6d.; spirits, 6d.; fire in his bedroom, 6d. "—that is the only entry on that day—the entry on Friday is: "McDonald, Esq., Friday, No. 43. 13s. brought forward; apartments, 5s.; attendance, 1s. 6d.; breakfast, 3s. 6d.; a cup of tea in his bedroom, 6d.; spirits, 6d.; fire and lights, 6d. each, 1s. "—that is on Friday, April 3rd; there was no dinner on that day—on Saturday, April 4th: "McDonald, Esq., No. 43. Brought forward, 1l. 5s.; apartment, private sitting-room, 5s. " (that was where the breakfast was held); "breakfast, 21s. "

By the COURT. It does not say there how many; "wines, 36s.; total, 4l. 7s.; paid on the same day, 4l. 7s.," which you will find in the journal entered and paid into the bank; here is the journal—I saw the four persons who had breakfast leave the hotel—on the same day that that breakfast was had at my hotel, on the Saturday, I again saw Mr. Malcolm in the evening; I could not say exactly what time it was, but it must have been after 8, because I never leave the dining-room until 8 o'clock—that was on Saturday night—on Sunday he came to lunch with a friend; it is entered in my book as "D. Chance"—I think I should be able to recognise the friend if I saw him [WILLIAMSON was called forward]—that is the gentleman—I have an entry of that luncheon in my book. [By MR. POLAND. There is no name entered, because he was not a resident in the house; we always enter those as A, B, C, D, Chance], and Mr. Malcolm was the chance; you will find it entered here—I pledge my oath before my God that he lunched in my hotel with his friend on that Sunday—Captain Macdonald paid his bill just after the breakfast on the Saturday morning—I did not see him after paying—I saw them leave the house, as I always do—after I saw the four go out of the house I never saw Mr. Macdonald again—I don't know whether he gave his name as Captain; I did not hear at the time that it was Captain Macdonald, but I heard it afterwards—he gave the order for the breakfast to me—I wished him "Good morning" and asked him if he had had breakfast on that Saturday morning as he was going out—he said "No, I am going out for a little while, and I wish you to get me a breakfast for four in a private room"—I asked him what he would like; he said "I leave that to you"—I said "Will you take tea or coffee?" and his answer was "Oh no, we shall drink champenge"—I said "I will have it ready," and that was all the conversation I had with him—I can't recollect what time that was; I should think it must have been about 9 or half-past, perhaps, that he gave the order—it might have been a little sooner or it may have been later; I can't exactly recall.

Cross-examined. I can't tell you exactly the time that he gave the

order for the breakfast; it may have been an hour sooner than half-past 9; it was not an hour later, I am quite sure of that—my impression is it was about half-past 9, but certainly before, not after—my impression is about 9 or half-past—I can't say whether they came back for the breakfast in about an hour's time; I am not always there—no time was mentioned to have the breakfast ready by—I have no recollection of their coming back; I saw them going out—I couldn't recognise any of them now, because the ladies turned their faces to the office—I couldn't recollect any of the breakfast party that morning; no one—the bill was paid somewhere before 12 o'clock; I recollect that—it was not in the afternoon; certainly not—it may have been a little before 12; I should think it was before; I have no recollection about it—I don't time my work; I do not remember the time—the 36s. was for the wine alone—the entry "D chance" on 5th April means a chance customer, but we knew Mr. Malcolm—there is nothing by the entry itself to enable me to identify the prisoner—any chance customer not sleeping in the house would be entered as chance—I rely on my memory for saying that the prisoner and Mr. Williamson were the two persons—I knew the prisoner's name, Malcolm, when he first came to sleep at the house—I couldn't tell you when that was; he was a customer of the house before I was there, and when I was there; I have been there altogether 9 years—I think I was absent for two years—I can't tell you when I first knew his name was Malcolm—he was not frequently at Brighton on a Sunday; I have not seen him frequently—I had seen him before he came with Mr. Williamson; I think it was on a Sunday; more than one Sunday—we knew him as a customer—I don't recollect whether I had seen him there with a friend on previous Sundays; I can't recollect whether he was alone or with a friend—I can't say that he might not have been there on a Sunday with a friend—he was not able to have a bed when he asked for it on Friday—I had never seen Captain Macdonald before; I am quite sure of that—he was taller than the prisoner, and bigger-built—I couldn't possibly mistake one for the other; decidedly not; certainly not—they were quite opposite men in my opinion—they were not like twin brothers or anything of that kind; they were the same kind of build, only Captain Macdonald was a little broader in the shoulder, a little taller, and much darker hair; he had a beard—I don't know whether he had any moustache; I should think so; I don't remember—I am quite sure about the beard; I think he had a beard; I believe so—I couldn't swear to that, but I think he had, to the best of my belief—I am very particular as to an oath—I didn't say I believed he had no moustache—I think he had a beard altogether; I don't think he had no moustache—I think he had a moustache—I can't remember whether he had or not—I know he had a beard; the moustache would be included in the beard.

Re-examined. Mr. Gourlay was the waiter employed on the Sunday when the prisoner and Mr. Williamson lunched there. (At the request of the Jury the witness a books were handed to them.)

WILLIAM CLARENCE GOURLAY . I am now at the Royal Kentish Hotel, Tunbridge Wells—in the week in which Good Friday happened I was in the service of Mrs. Harper, the manageress of the Clarendon Hotel at Brighton—I remember the prisoner coming and having luncheon at that hotel on Sunday—I partly attended on him as waiter—he had another with him—they had cold meat for luncheon—I do not remember a

captain Macdonald staying in the hotel that week—I heard from one of my men that there was a breakfast for four in a private room on the Saturday—I did not attend to that.

Cross-examined. My attention was drawn to this luncheon on Sunday, 5th April, about a week ago—I distinctly remember that they had cold meat for luncheon; there is no mistake about that—I have such a clear recollection of that Sunday that they had cold meat; I mean that; it was cold beef—they had the usual accompaniments—they did not drink anything except coffee; I remember that—the solicitor spoke to me about this matter a week ago; that was the first time my attention was called to it—I knew the prisoner before, not by name; he came to the hotel once—I saw him once before, in the early part of March—as far as I remember he had cold meat for luncheon that day—that was not on a Sunday—I can't exactly recollect what day it was—I don't think it was a Sunday, I think it was a Saturday.

EDMUND HENRY STILLWELL . I live at 21, Marlborough Street, Western Road, Brighton—I remember Easter Sunday—on that day I drove two gentlemen and a lady to Shoreham—I took them up on the front, near the pier—we went to the New Inn at Shoreham; no, the Bridge Hotel, close to Norfolk Bridge; I believe it is called the Bridge Inn—I see the gentleman over there that I drove on that day, the prisoner—I should say they stopped at the hotel about an hour—I should know the other man if I saw him. (WILLIAMSON was called forward.) That is the other gentleman who was along with the one in the dock—I next saw the prisoner I believe six weeks last Monday—I saw him come along the Esplanade; he spoke to me, at least I spoke to him in the first place in the natural way of business, I asked him if he wanted a cab—he replied that he did not want a cab, but did I recollect the Easter Sunday—I told him I did, and he asked me if I knew what I did on Easter Sunday—I said I could not remember for a minute or two—he said he would go away for a few minutes, and he would return and see if I could remember what I did do; he went away, and he came back, I suppose, about twenty minutes afterwards; then we had no satisfaction, not where we went—I explained to him where I went on a certain day—he asked me where I went, and I explained to him where I did go; I told him I took two gentlemen and a lady to Shoreham, and I explained to him the inn where they stopped.

By the COURT. I said I took that gentleman and another young gentleman with him and a young lady, and we went to the Bridge Inn at Shoreham, and they stopped there, and I had to stop there about an hour—when he came back after the twenty minutes I explained to him where I went on that Sunday; I said "Yes, sir, I recollect now where I went on that Easter Sunday"—he said "What time in the day was it that you picked me up?"—I told him it was about 2 o'clock; and that was as near the time as I could give it—I told him I recollected having him—the only difference there was in him was that he had a black suit of clothes on at that time, and the time I saw him the second time he had a brown suit of clothes—the other young gentleman that was along with him had on a black suit of clothes, he was a much younger man, and a young lady with him.

Cross-examined. I could not tell how many times I have been from

Brighton to Shoreham this year—I did not very often go to Shoreham, being at the west end of Brighton—I often go to Shoreham; it is a common drive there and back—it is often a Sunday drive; it is about six miles—I have often stopped there at the Bridge Inn, but I have a very good recollection of that one Sunday because that was the second time I had been there since I had been on the fly-driving system—it was last Monday six weeks that I saw the prisoner—I saw him looking at me, and I asked him in the natural way of business if he required a cab—I had a recollection of his face; I knew him again—I remembered him at once as the person I had driven to Shoreham, but I did not recollect just where I went at the time; I recollect driving him, but I could not recollect just for the moment where I had been with him—I knew him, and knew the day—I recollected his face as well as could be—he went away for about 20 minutes; not longer.

EMILY EDMUNDS . I live at 178, St. John Street Road—I know the prisoner perfectly—I remember Easter Monday—I saw the prisoner that day, in the morning, shortly before 12 o'clock I should say—I was standing by my window of the front drawing-room—I saw Mr. Malcolm on the opposite side of the way—I had known him before; I had seen him several times.

Cross-examined. Our house is in St. John Street Road, Clerkenwell—this was on Bank Holiday—I first spoke about this two months ago; since this charge was made—he was going towards the Angel; towards his home—I had seen him pass my window before several times—it was a common thing.

JOHN OTWAY . I am an optician, of 178, St. John Street Road, Clerkenwell—I remember the Easter holidays; I remember the Tuesday after Easter Sunday—I left my business that evening at about 8.45—I saw the prisoner that evening—I walked up to the Angel, and saw him standing on the kerb, apparently waiting for an omnibus—I touched him on the shoulder, and said "Good evening," and had some conversation with him—I have known him these six years—he is a man very much addicted to scientific pursuits—he has a very large microscopic collection, and is very fond of science—I have made him almost everything that can be used in that way, for polarisation of light and other things.

Cross-examined. I have known him for six years as a customer—my attention was first called to this matter by seeing it in the newspaper—I am trusting to my recollection as to the day I saw him—I am not in the habit of meeting him in the street; sometimes, very rarely.

By the COURT. By Easter Tuesday I mean the Tuesday after Easter Sunday—that fixes it on my recollection.

Thursday and Friday, September 24th and 25th.

MRS. CAMPBELL (Recalled by MR. POLAND ). We do not as a rule put down the total of the money received at the bottom of the page, but in this instance we did. (Looking at the book.) This is my figure—at the time I put this 5s. at the bottom of the page the other entry was there—we put it there because we particularly wanted to keep the officers' accounts separate—we were anxious to keep the officers' and men's accounts separate at Easter, so that we should know what was realised by them—Dr. Shepherd's is an officer's account—we wished to keep the accounts separate because the proprietors of the hotel wished to know what was realised from the officers and men at Easter—they wanted to know what

their profits would be—we kept that book entirely for that—these are the private accounts previous to the mess—we did not keep them on separate pages, because some of the officers came in on Thursday and some on the Friday—I will show you where the officers' mess account is entered—these are private accounts—Dr. Shepherd's was a private account until Saturday at dinner—it was not treated in the same way as Mr. Hall's, because they are separate parties—we did not add Mr. Hall's and Mr. Malcolm's accounts, because we wished to keep the officers' and the men's accounts separate—Mr. Malcolm's name and number were put down when he came in on the Friday; the name and the number were entered first—I can't give any further explanation as to why I put the 6th September—I was not aware that I did it till I was shown it—we were in great confusion that morning—I have not got the cash-book here—we have one—I think that would show the different payments entered on the days on which they were received—this entry, "Hall, April 3rd, 1885" was written on the same day that Mr. Hall came in; some time before Mr. Malcolm—"Mr. Malcolm" was written on 3rd April—Mr. Hall is a commercial traveller—he did not take his bedroom for any particular time—he said he should want it for two or three nights—he ordered it before Easter; before the day he came in—this day-book is entered to record day by day what each customer has; that was only commenced at Easter—the entry of March 3rd was one of the officers who came in on the Wednesday—this entry of March 2nd is "F. Gellatley, Esq.," he was down before the officers came, to make arrangements; he was the quarter-master's sergeant—Mr. Hall was not an officer, but he was there during the Easter week—we wanted to keep the Easter week separate—that was why we brought the officers' total to the bottom of the page—the bar account was kept separate at Easter from the hotel.

MRS. FLINT (Re-called by MR. WILLIAMS ). I now have my books here—I find in this book that there are several transactions with Mr. Malcolm for jewellery, both sold to him and given to him on approbation; rings of all descriptions, stone rings, wedding rings, and plain rings; I think not signet rings—I also find transactions in other articles of jewellery—on April 11th, in the approbation-book, there is entered to the name Mr. Malcolm one diamond single stone claw ring, 16l., one 3 stone gipsy star set, 9l. 10s., they all refer to fancy rings—I find in the approbation-book the entry in his name preceding the 11th of April is on March 1st, that is a pair of diamond cluster earrings, 14l., and 3-stone diamond gipsy ring, 16l.—the entry preceding that is the 7th February, one wedding-ring, 22-carat gold, paid for—a Mr. Damer bought that—I do not find any entry whatever in the approbation-book of eight or nine wedding-rings on approbation—I think, with the exception of the one I have given, that is the only one in the approbation-book. (Miss Dash was here requested to leave the Court.) I produce my day-book—I find entries there of several transactions in jewellery with Mr. Malcolm—I am able to say from this book that from time to time, on more than one occasion, he has had both on approbation; and also bought wedding rings and other rings.

Cross-examined. It is impossibe for me to say how many times he has bought wedding rings—he has bought wedding rings from time to time of me—I can't tell you when he bought one before February—it is impossible for me to remember; I have not taken notice of it, they are all 22-carat rings that we keep, some with inscriptions—they

would be made to order I conclude—on 7th February there was a ring on approbation—I can't tell whether there was an inscription on that without the book—(Referring to the book) here is an entry of March 14th "Mr. J. Malcolm, one 22-carat ring, with inscription, 42s. "—that would be a ring purchased, made for him with the inscription put on it—I have brought the rough book—you will see the order for that perhaps—on 22nd February the wedding-ring was without inscription—that was on approbation—he kept it and paid for one—he bad four—we only keep 22-carat wedding-rings—I might know a 22-carat ring if I saw it. (Miss Dash was here called in and produced her wedding-ring.) That appears marked 22-carat—it is a 22-carat ring—I can't say whether other jewellers keep them of all classes—I couldn't say from personal knowledge whether wedding-rings are of different standards—I can't say whether they range down to 18 or 15 carat—I could not state accurately how long I have been in the jewellery trade, but I think some 15 or 16 years—the fire at our place was on the 31st—after that the place was in great confusion—that was the week in which Good Friday was—all the transactions that took place in that week were entered in the books—you have all my books there—the business was not carried on as usual—the premises were not shut up altogether—my books will tell you better than my memory what kind of rings Mr. Malcolm had from time to time—we keep every kind of ring in stock—the date at which articles are returned is not shown—I have no book to show that—we should trust Mr. Malcolm with a moderate number of rings to show, I don't say as to any number—as the book is there so you must take it—I can say nothing but what the book tells me—I should say that no goods were sent out on approbation between 26th March and 10th April—we should not send goods out on approbation without ear-marking them—a 22-carat wedding-ring is price 40s.—I couldn't say whether the entry of 14th March, "Mr. J. Malcolm, Smithfield, E.C., 22-carat ring, inscription, 43s. " would be 40s. the ring and 3s. inscription—you have the rough book there, and if you refer you can see. (Looking at the book.) This ring, with inscription, was paid for—the next entry is, "Mr. J. Malcolm, one 22-carat wedding-ring, 40s. "—that is on 10th April—that was paid—I couldn't say whether he paid it on that day—you must look at my cash-book—it is impossible to answer questions like that—I can't say whether that ring was paid for on 10th April—it wouldn't, I think, be paid on that day as far as my memory serves me, because it would be entered in the day-book—he took it from the shop on 16th April certainly—I can't tell you when things are paid for unless they are paid for at the time—I have a cash-book, but I only put down my takings once a week—Mr. Malcolm's account is in this book for June and July this year—this is the only cash-book I have—this is not my cash book—it is very annoying to be talked to like this, you might ask me sensible questions—I thought I brought the cash-book with the others—I should have said I did—all I can say is, if it is not there it is an error, and you must kindly send for it—I didn't put the books up myself—my son did it—I brought them here yesterday, and the cash-book was there then—this book will show that I did not take a penny on 10th April—these three 000 mean that nothing was taken, and unfortunately that was not the only day—I couldn't tell you if you gave me a crown when the wedding-ring, which is entered on 10th April, was paid for—the

cash-book would not show it; honestly it would not—I will send for the cash-book.

PARKER MUNCEY . I have just been sent for from Messrs. Benson's, of Ludgate Hill—I am their manager—I have been in the jewellery trade altogether about 25 years—in these days 22-carat wedding-rings are always standard gold.

Cross-examined. The poorer classes need not pay 40s. for their wedding-rings; you can have a ring a quarter of that weight; they vary from about half-a-guinea up to 3l.—the standard is only 22-carat, there is no other standard at all—I do not think cheap jewellery sell them cheaper; it is a recognised standard—this wedding-ring of Miss Dash's is 22-carat standard gold; I should call it rather above the average standard weight—there is a recognised price per ounce for these things—I cannot tell what would be the selling price of this; a grain makes a difference in the alloy; I should think it would be about 2l. or 2 guineas.

EMMA DASH (Recalled by MR. AVORY ). It was on the Wednesday before Good Friday that the prisoner brought down the case of rings for me to see at Brighton—they were different kinds of rings, most valuable rings; there were not any plain gold ones or keepers; they were diamond rings, pearl and coral, and there might have been other stones mixed with the diamonds and pearls—there were about 12 to 20; I could not say how many, but a row of rings, a case of rings—he did not give me any of them or leave any of them with me—he told me to choose one, and I did—he said I had not the one he wished to give me, that I should have pink coral, that I might have the one I chose, but when I tried it on it was too large, and he said he would take the case back and have the coral one added he had one of my rings to measure, but that had not been altered—I was to have the two made smaller—I got my own ring back; I never had the other rings that were promised—I did not first see the wedding-ring at the ceremony; he showed it to Miss Lewis on Good Friday evening; I first saw it then—if my mother said that he brought the rings down on the Tuesday that is a mistake—I am not sure when I had my own ring back, but I think on the Thursday—he took it back again to have the rings made the same size as that—some rings were shown me on the Wednesday—I had given him my ring before that—he asked me for a ring to take to town—I am not sure of the day I gave him the ring to take to town, but I think it was on Tuesday, I cannot fix it positively; I should say Tuesday; it must have been Tuesday, it was not Sunday, it was after he proposed to me on Tuesday, and he took it up to London for the purpose of getting a ring of that particular size—he brought down some rings on the Wednesday, but they were none of the right size, not those that I chose—he gave me back the ring I gave him as a pattern either on Thursday or Good Friday—he has not yet given me a ring of the same size, they were to be altered to that size—my mother has the ring I gave him as a pattern.

ZOE DASH (Recalled by MR. AVORY ). The case of rings I saw produced by the prisoner were diamonds, pearls, and rubies, stone rings all of them—I have the ring which my daughter handed back to me; it belongs to her—she had it the week before she was married—she gave it to him as a pattern for the size.

MR. BLOFIELD (Recalled by the COURT ). I have known the name of

the vessel Kaikoura since last March and April as a ship bringing sheep from New Zealand.

MRS. CAMPBELL (Recalled by MR. WILLIAMS ). When a visitor comes to our hotel I put his name down in a book if I know it, if he gives his name—if another person comes a short time afterwards I generally leave a space that I think would be required for his account—I should leave a space for Malcolm's items—if Mr. Hall came, and I had left a space for Malcolm's account, I should put Mr. Hall's name down—if there was not space enough left for Malcolm's account I should carry it forward; that is the meaning of carrying it over.

MRS. HARPER (Recalled by the COURT ). I think the breakfast was ordered for four persons on the Saturday morning, but several persons went into the room; I could not say how many breakfasted, I was not in the room—I said that they consisted of four, two ladies and two gentlemen, because Captain Macdonald ordered the breakfast for four—I never went into the room at all; it was only the waiter that waited on them.

Seven witnesses deposed to the prisoner's good character.

The Jury retired to consider their verdict at 7 minutes to 3. They returned into Court at 6 o'clock, but not having then agreed they retired again, and ultimately returned at 6.35, when, not having then agreed, they were discharged, and the case was postponed to the next Session.

THIRD COURT.—Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, September 17th, 18th, 19th, 22nd, 23rd, and 24th, 1885.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant,

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-849
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour; Imprisonment > hard labour

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14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-850
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SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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Reference Numbert18850914-851
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > with recommendation; Guilty > lesser offence
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851. PAUL KRAUSS KLEIN the elder (50), PAUL KRAUSS KLEIN the younger (18), ALEXANDER GRANT (54), ALBERT EDWARD HODDER (35), WILLIAM GOULD (40), and ROBERT KITCHENER (51), Unlawfully obtaining by false pretences, with intent to defraud, from Messrs. Galpin and Crochard, large quantities of merino and other goods. Also Counts for conspiracy, and others under the Debtors Act.

MESSRS. C. MATHEWS and GILL Prosecuted; MR. MOYSES defended the two Kleins; MESSRS. GEOGHEGAN and RICHMOND, Grant; MESSRS. KEITH FRITH and PARKES, Hodder; and MR. A. METCALF, Gould and Kitchener.

JOHN JAMES PEDDELL . I am a solicitor in Guildhall Chambers, Basinghall Street—in May, 1884, I was acting as solicitor for the two Kleins, who were carrying on business as tourist agents at York Buildings, Adelphi—I attested their signatures to the counterpart of a lease of 6, Garrick Street, Covent Garden, from George Whichcord.

Cross-examined by MR. MOYSES. These are counterparts of the books I saw referring to the agency—I thought it a very good thing.

JOSEPH ARTHUR NICHOLS . I am a traveller for Bradbury, Wilkinson, and Co., engravers, of Bucklersbury—our firm got a card from Klein in August, 1884, asking for samples of bills and estimates, in consequence of which I went to Garrick Street to take the orders—I saw both the Kleins there—the younger Klein mostly conducted the matter with me—he ordered 1,000l. bill of exchange forms—this is one of them—I executed the order—some time after I got Tournier and Co.'s cheque for 5l. on account—afterwards we printed a few cards, some for Dr. Baillet, ordered by the younger Klein, to be charged to the Kleins.

Cross-examined by MR. MOYSES. The 5l. cheque was honoured.

ALFRED CONDER . I am an architect and surveyor, and carried on business in the same office as Mr. Whichcord, who died in January—I assisted him in looking after his property—Klein had a lease of 6, Garrick Street—in it there was a restriction to prevent their carrying on any business there but that of a tourist agency and publishing office—on 2nd February, 1885, the elder Klein called on me, and subsequently I received this letter from him. (This enclosed a sum of 14l. 15s., and asked leave to open a pharmacy on the premises, and was signed "P. Klein and Son.") I subsequently saw him, and referred him to Munton and Co., solicitors to the executors—I heard of a fire having taken place at the premises, and I surveyed them, after the reinstatement had taken place, for the insurance office who reinstated them—on 17th February I went to see those premises after they had been done up; it was then being fitted up with shelves and cupboards, such as is usual in pharmacy premises and such as Klein had spoken of—Klein told me, as in his letter, that it was his intention to open the premises as a pharmacy.

Cross-examined by MR. MOYSES. Dr. Baillet was occupying the first floor at the time of my survey—the Kleins were occupying the whole house—I saw no room there for the tourist agency—I went all over the house—I understood from the elder Klein that his son and Dr. Baillet were going to manage the pharmacy.

Re-examined. On 17th February the ground floor was being fitted up as a pharmacy—the first floor was occupied by Dr. Baillet, and the upper floors were furnished as bed and living rooms.

JOHN LEE DALE . I live at 84, Mile End Road, and am an auctioneer and valuer—on 5th June I was instructed to levy on the premises, 6, Garrick Street, for the quarter's rent due Lady Day from Paul Klein and Son, amounting to 42l. 10s.—I examined the premises, and found the ground floor was fitted up for a chemist's business with fixtures not quite complete—there was no stock-in-trade nor implements—a person there told me he was a French doctor and that he had ordered fittings—I was there to realise what I could for the rent—there was no sign of business being carried on—there were four floors—there was not 40l. worth of furniture on the premises that I could distrain upon—there were some goods on the premises, but they had been nearly all claimed by Mr. Hack, solicitor on behalf of the trustees, Paul Krauss Klein and Sophia Schofield, for the child, and the doctor claimed the fixtures in the shop.

Cross-examined by MR. MOYSES. The fittings were not quite completed,

and therefore business could not be carried on—Mr. Baillet said the fittings were for him.

FREDERICK GEORGE NETHERCLIFT . I have an office at 10, Bedford Row—I have been an expert in handwriting for the last 30 years—several documents in this case have been before me—I have had what have been admitted examples of the handwriting of the elder and younger Kleins, and I have compared those with other handwriting placed before me—these four post-cards signed "P. Klein and Son," and two letters, 29th April and 14th May, signed "P. Klein, junior," are all the same hand—the letter C of 7th November, 1884, is in P. Klein, junior's writing, but the postscript is not—the letter of 1st July, 1885, and the postscript of the letter of 7th November, 1884, are all in the handwriting of P. Klein the elder—on the back of one of them is an endorsement by the younger Klein—the letters of 7th October and 31st October are signed by the elder Klein; I do not know whose the body is—the letter of 7th November, 1884, is entirely in Klein, senior's handwriting, and is signed by him—this letter signed "Schuler," dated 31, Quai de Leste, May 16, Antwerp, is written and signed by Klein the elder.

Cross-examined by MR. MOYSES. I have seen these before at the solicitor's, and had them at my office, and I recognise them now at a glance—I have no doubt made mistakes in 35 years—juries have found verdicts adverse to me.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. Experts have been called to contradict me—when I was called on one side, Mr. Chabot was on the other—I was defendant in the case of Davis and May—I swore a will was in one handwriting, and Chabot was with me—the Jury found against me.

Re-examined. Juries have very often found for me—wherever they have disagreed with me it has been in cases of feigned handwriting—I have never lost a case where it was tracing natural handwriting.

JAMES NEVILLE SPERRYN . I am London manager of Russell and Co., 145, Queen Victoria Street, iron tube makers, who own the building, and let out the part they don't use—at the end of October, 1884, the prisoner Alexander Murray Grant took one room on the second floor at 145, Queen Victoria Street—I have left the agreement at home—it was signed on 31st October in my presence by Grant, who gave me a reference to Mr. A. E. Hodder, of Salcot's Road, Clapham, and an address was also given in Queen Victoria Street—I communicated with Hodder as to the reference, and got this reply. (This stated that Grant was a tenant of his; thnt he had known him 12 years, and considered him quite capable of paying 30l. a year rent, and that the business he had done with him was always satisfactory.) Grant told me he carried on a baker's business at 4, Exeter Terrace, Canning Town, and that he wanted the office for an agency for Swiss watches, and he showed me two or three watches from his waistcoat pocket—two or three days later he went into possession of the room, and two or three weeks later the name of Tournier and Co. appeared painted on the door, with A. M. Grant and Co. in the corner—I saw no one but Grant there—I saw him there in November, December, and January—the police came there about February—after that I did not see quite so much of Grant—the name of Tournier was up then—about the middle of April I saw no more of him—in May I wrote to Grant, and Kitchener brought me a reply from him—Kitchener said Grant would look in in a day or two—I know none of

the other prisoners—the only person I knew as representing Tournier and Co. was Grant.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I am London manager to the firm of tube merchants, and am concerned in my own business during the day time—the rent of 30l. due from Grant was paid before he was in custody—Grant was there every day—he said his wife managed the baking business for him—I did not know Hoddor until the middle of April—I looked on Grant as my tenant at 145, Queen Victoria Street—I knew of no one else—I should have taken no notice of Hodder—he was not introduced to me—Grant was quite alone when he took the room—I made an appointment with Grant in May at Queen Victoria Street—I did not keep it—I was told Grant called to see me in consequence of the appointment.

Cross-examined by MR. K. FRITH. I am not prepared to say that the letter I received from Hodder and Co. was written by him—I made no other inquiries before I let the premises to Grant.

Cross-examined by MR. RICHMOND. I saw Kitchener in and out of the premises—he was a packer or porter—I looked on him merely as a servant—I saw him unpacking and doing things up again.

ALFRED LA RIVIERE . I was clerk to the late Mr. John Whichcord, architect, owner of 6, Garrick Street—in May, 1884, those premises were let to the two Kleins for 21 years at a rental of 70l. a year—the rent on some occasions has been by bills, which have been met on maturity.

Cross-examined by MR. MOYSES. Before we let the premises to Klein we asked him through our surveyors for references, which we got—they were satisfactory—the rent at first was regularly paid.

Re-examined. Mr. Peddell was one of the references—the fire occurred in December.

WILLIAM ALCOCK . I live at 66, Lethbrett Road, Clapham Junction, and was agent for Mr. Peter Duplock, of 636, Wandsworth Road—Hodder came there, and I let him the house 35, Salcot's Road the last week in September, 1884—there was no agreement—he told me he was in the American flour trade—his wife was with him, nobody else that I know of—I asked for no reference, but agreed to let the house to him at 30l. a year payable quarterly—Mr. Walker, who lived next door at the same rent, recognised the prisoner as a friend of his in my presence—the rent was paid at the Christmas quarter, and after that the house was taken out of Mr. Duplock's hands as the mortgagee closed.

GEORGE HENRY STRINGER . I live at Wakehurst Road, Clapham Junction—in March this year I was instructed by the mortgagee of Mr. Duplock's property to collect the rent of 35, Salcot's Road—I went there to look for Hodder, but could not find him—I made a great many inquiries, I suppose each other day after the quarter became due—I made every effort to find Hodder, but was unable to find him—eventually I called several times at 145, Queen Victoria Street, the office of Tournier and Co., but the only one I saw there was Kitchener, and I only saw him once—on 15th April I received a letter from Mr. Hack—I called on him several times—I could not get the rent—on 2nd June Messrs. Norman and Stacey, who furnish on the hire system, came to take away the goods out of the house, and they paid me 7l. 10s. rent to go out, and they then took their portion of the goods away.

Cross-examined by MR. MOYSES. Hack's letter said I was to show my

authority for the rent, and I should have a cheque—I was in possession of the house for the mortgagees who were claiming the rent—I paid it to them after it was deposited with me.

By the COURT. Mr. Hack was Hodder's solicitor.

Cross-examined by MR. K. FRITH. The rent was paid on June 25th by Mr. Abrahams on behalf of Hodder, and he took the remainder of the goods away—Norman and Stacey left about 10l. worth of goods—we wanted about 6l. 10s. for rent—no distraint had been put in—we threatened to do so—we have got the rent.

Cross-examined by MR. RICHMOND. When I did not get my rent I went to 145, Queen Victoria Street.

Re-examined. The March quarter was paid by Norman and Stacey, and the June quarter through the defendant, after he was in custody.

JOHN JAMES PEDDELL (Re-examined by MR. MATHEWS ). These letters of 31st October and 7th November are signed by the elder Klein, and that of July, 1885, is in the elder Klein's writing, and is signed by him—I only saw the younger Klein write when he executed this lease—by comparison I should say these two letters of 31st Oct. and 7th Nov. were written by him.

Cross-examined by MR. MOYSES. I have known the Kleins some time—I never knew them as partners in business till they took this one—the younger Klein is not 20 years old—I have known the father about 15 years.

Re-examined. I have no doubt of the elder Klein's writing.

RICHARD SEMAR . I am cashier at the London and General Bank, at 20, Budge Row, Cannon Street—on 11th Nov. an account was opened at that bank by Tournier and Co.—the entry in the book is "Nov. 11, Tournier and Co., A. E. Hodder, 145, Queen Victoria Street, watch manufacturers," with a reference to W. G. Walker, 9, Eccles Road—I knew Hodder as Tournier and Co.—I frequently saw him at the bank—we paid on his signature as Tournier and Co.—I went to 145, Queen Victoria Street about a cheque irregularly signed Turner and Co.—I saw Hodder, and he re-signed it Tournier and Co.—Grant came to the bank to cash Tournier and Co.'s cheques—I have a copy of the account from the bank books, and have examined it with those books—the account was opened on 11th November—on 14th November 100l. was paid in—it was a very small balance—on the 1st January there was a debit balance of 1s. 2d., which arises from a cheque paid—the balance keeps low till about 13th or 14th February, and then it was increased to over 100l.; it then decreased and increased till on 4th May a balance was left of 9s. 3d.—nothing was paid in after that—since about 18th April acceptances amounting to over 700l. have been presented for payment—there were not sufficient funds to meet them—cheques were several times drawn on that account in favour of Klein—the name of Grant and Kitchener also appears here.

Cross-examined by MR. PARKES. I knew Tournier and Co. and Hodder were one and the same person, there was no concealment about that—I thought Hodder alone had authority to draw cheques on the account—two or three small cheques were returned before 18th April.

Cross-examined by MR. RICHMOND. No one had any authority to sign cheques for Tournier and Co. but Hodder—I simply knew Grant as coming to the Bank on Tournier and Co.'s behalf.

MARY ANN IRELAND . I am the wife of John Ireland, and live at 3, Paul's Bakehouse Court, Godliman Street, Doctors' Commons—the last Friday in February Mr. Sikes came and spoke to me about a room, and on the next Monday, 1st March, he returned, accompanied by Grant, who, he said, would be a good tenant, and would take the office at 12s. a week, and pay me the first month in advance—I let him the office on those terms; he always paid his rent—he was constantly on the premises till about the end of May—he gave me a reference to Mr. McDonald, 15, Queen Victoria Street—I did not go about the references, as Mr. Sikes was a neighbour, and had been there two years, and he gave Mr. Grant a very good reference—the name painted up there was "Grant and Co., sole representative of Schuler and Co., Antwerp"—Schuler and Co., Antwerp, was afterwards altered to Robartha and Co.—I was in the room two or three times—he took it furnished—I remember several cases of goods being brought there after he had taken it—I don't know what goods they were—I told Grant my husband said the cases must be undone in the yard, because they were breaking the staircase in taking them up—after that the cases were opened outside without being taken upstairs—I saw the man undo the top—I saw Kitchener there when cases arrived from time to time—I did not see him open anything—Mr. Grant told me they were merinos and cashmeres, nothing ese—I saw no books in Mr. Grant's office.

Cross-examined by MR. RICHMOND. Grant had always paid his rent in advance until he was arrested—he was not always there—there was no business there—I went in three times, that was all—I could not say what was in the office—I could not swear to the name of the firm on the door, I am quite sure Robartha was up there, and I think the name of Schuler was on the door—I am pretty sure, but I should not like to swear to that name—I did not see what was in the cases I saw open—Grant told me they were merinos and cashmeres—I think there were books there, which the detectives took away.

ELIZABETH ESTHER BARBER . I live at, and am the owner of, 39, St. Andrew's Hill, Doctors' Commons, where I carry on a bookbinder's business, letting out some portion of the premises—on 4th March I let a room to Kitchener at 8s. a week—Grant was with him then—as a reference a card was given me with Tournler and Co., 145, Queen Victoria Street, on it—I was unable to go there at the time—Grant paid the first week's rent in advance—I would not allow a name to be painted on the door, as I did not mean them to remain, but the name of R. Kitchener and Co. was painted up, and immediately after I saw goods and packing cases arriving—the good were merinos, cashmeres, and serges, and were there until recently—I saw them there because the house was being repaired at the time, and the roof was partly off and water got through, and I went in the rooms to see if the goods were spoilt—there were no table, chairs, desks, or boxes there—I saw this stamp when the officer came there, not before—I do not know what was done with the goods—I saw packages brought in and taken out by Kitchener and Grant—they were the only two I saw there—Kitchener remained there some weeks, I could not say how long—some time after Easter a bill of exchange was brought there for over 100 francs—I gave it to Kitchener when he returned—I never saw him afterwards.

JOSEPH VIPOND . I am clerk to Alfred Pitman, of 30, Watling Street—

he is agent for Oswald Bird, the owner of that house—on 21st March, 1885, Gould came to take the back room on the second floor there at 10l. a year—this is the proposal he made in writing. (This was an agreement to take the room, and was signed W. Hayes Gould.) He gave a reference to Grant, one of the managers of Tournier and Co., 145, Queen Victoria Street, and Walter Rothoff and Co., 57, Basinghall Street—I wrote to those gentlemen, and received replies. (The one from Grant was headed Tournier and Co., and stated that he considered Gould a good and respectable tenant for 10l. a year.) After receiving that I introduced Gould to Mr. Bird about 27th March—an agreement was made out between Gould and Bird.

OSWALD BIRD . I am a solicitor, and the lessee of 30, Watling Street—on 27th March the last witness brought Gould to me, and I entered into an agreement with him to let him a room on second-floor back of 30, Watling Street at a rent of 10l.—16s. 8d. payable monthly in advance—that was paid in advance on the day that the agreement, dated 27th March, was signed by Gould, described as Hayes Gould, commission agent, of 4, Frederick Road, Canning Town.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. I am quite sure Gould gave that as the address he was living at.

CHARLES HUTCHINSON CONLY . I am a clerk in the employment of Messrs. Blunt and Co., the solicitors to this prosecution—on 22nd May this year I was instructed by Messrs. Samson, clients of Messrs. Blunt's, not connected with this prosecution, to serve a writ on Tournier and Co.—I went on two occasions, and found the office at Queen Victoria Street closed—on 27th May I went there at 8 o'clock in the morning, and waited there till 9.30—Kitchener came, and went upstairs to the second floor, where the name of Tournier and Co. was over the door—he got in by a key—I followed and served a writ on him.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. That was the first time I had seen Kitchener there—I gave him the writ, and asked him to give it to them—I did not wish to serve it on him as being one of the defendants.

J. N. SPERRYN (.Re-examined by MR. MATHEWS ). This is the agreement which I thought I had left at home, between Grant and Russell.

ANNIE OBITZ . I am the wife of Frederick Obitz, a cabinet maker, of 8, Clipstone Street, Fitzroy Square—about Christmas, 1883, Kappenberg came and occupied two rooms on the ground floor there, paying a rental of 10s. 6d. a week—he stayed there till February, 1885—he received different goods there; cheeses and sausages which came in railway vans—he took them away after they had been delivered—visitors came there; one was a tall man—I don't remember any of the prisoners coming—several letters were addressed there to a person by the name of Edward Bird, who Kappenberg told me was a friend of his—after he left he sent a man to get his letters for him sometimes, and sometimes he fetched them himself.

EDWARD ROBINSON . I am a tailor, of 9, Lower John Street, Golden Square—at the end of February a man came and inquired about an office on the ground floor of 9, Lower John Street, Golden Square—I recommended him to De Plihey, the then tenant of the office—the day afterwards the same man came and took possession of the office—about the same time the name of Courty, Foster, and Co. was painted on the door—he occupied the office after that—I thought his name was Courty, and that he was the principal of the firm—I think Klein the elder came there,

but I should not like to swear—my impression is I saw him there once, and that was the morning after Courty took the office—he went in to look at the office—I never saw that gentleman in the waiting-room.

Cross-examined by MR. MOYSES. The elder Klein I saw there once—he had his hat on, and the passage was somewhat dark.

ALBERT DE PLIHEY . I am a commission agent, of King Street, Regent Street—in February this year I rented an office at 9, Lower John Street, Golden Square, and at the end of February a man called on me with reference to taking that office, and gave the name of Kappenberg, and represented himself to be an agent for some woollen manufacturers in Vienna, and said he wanted to establish a connection in England, and wished to take the office in the part where the woollen manufacturers lived—I agreed to let him that office at a rental payable in advance—on one or two subsequent occasions I went to that office, and saw Kappenberg and made out the receipts to him—the name of Courty, Foster, and Co. was painted outside the door.

MARY ANN IRELAND .(Re-examined). During the time Grant lived at 3, Paul's Bakehouse Court, I saw Gould there in Grant's company.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. He came into Grant's office—a great many people came into Grant's office—he may have been there only two or three minutes; he came several mornings.

Re-examined. I have seen Hodder there as well—at that time he wore whiskers.

ALFRED CHAPMAN . I am manager to Messrs. Norman and Stacey, furniture merchants, of 79, Queen Victoria Street, who let furniture out on the hire system—on 30th August Hodder made a proposal to hire about 100l. worth of furniture—he left us a reference to a banker's and a business, and we made inquiries ourselves and through our bankers and were satisfied—we allowed him to have 186l. worth of goods, which were sent to 135, Salcott Road—he signed an agreement for the hire of that on 27th September and paid an instalment of 25l. down, the remainder to be paid in 36 monthly instalments—on 2nd June Norman and Stacey seized the furniture at 135, Salcott Road, and in order to take it away had to pay 25l. owing for the rent; we have since sold the furniture by auction for 45l.—on 24th September I had an application from Grant for 30l. worth of furniture; he gave Hodder as one of his references at 17, Queen Victoria Street—we sent to Hodder—we supplied the goods, and on 28th October an agreement was signed for them—the instalments have been paid regularly when due—on 28th March we received an application from Klein senior for 102l. worth of furniture—he gave references and a guarantee as well, and we sent him 102l. worth of furniture to No. 6, Garrick Street under an agreement of 26th November to be paid for by monthly instalments of 3l.—31l. 10s. has been paid, but that includes 22l. from the insurance company for the property destroyed by the fire under a joint policy—in the end we had to seize and move the goods—I don't know who was in occupation of the premises when we did so.

Cross-examined by MR. MOYSES. Klein paid three instalments regularly—we got part of the furniture back; we supposed 22l. worth was burnt—a salvage corps man said there was some informality in the policy; it did not concern us—I don't know that Klein sustained a very heavy loss—I do not know that the premises were closed owing to the fire.

Cross-examined by MR. RICHMOND. Grant's wife paid the instalments, I have nothing to complain of him.

Cross-examined by MR. PARKES. Hodder had 182l. worth; there were extra goods afterwards I believe—he paid 35l.—I believe he came and made the offer that he would pay the rent and we should take the furniture back—we accepted that, so that after 6th May we got it back, after he had paid 35l.—we had to sell them by a forced sale; they realised 42l.

JACOB WILLIAM WHITE . I live at 167, Queen Victoria Street—in December last I became acquainted with Hodder, whom I knew as Tournier and Grant—they represented themselves as watch manufacturers in business together—under their order we printed 50 cards for them as watch manufacturers in the name of Tournier and Co., 145, Queen Victoria Street—we printed more cards for him, 50 or 100 at a time—I saw Grant write this order for cards to be sent—the "A. Tournier, Esq., Manchester" is his writing, it was brought to me by Kitchener—I also printed this for Grant: "Victoria Dock Bakery, 4, Frederick's Road, Canning Town. Shippers supplied"—I also printed this for Grant: "Grant and Co., merchants, Paul's Bakehouse Court, Godliman Street," and also these describing him as sole consignee and agent for Sohuler and Co., Antwerp, and giving his address—he also left this in what looks like his handwriting for us to print from—from it we printed this invoice: "Sole consignee for Robarta and Co., of Antwerp, Paul's Bakehouse Court"—on 15th May we printed 50 of these invoices for Gould: "Bought of W. Hayes Gould, 30, Watling Street, E.C."—he came for them himself.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I should not like to say the order for these cards was Grant's signature, it is Grant's writing.

Cross-examined by MR. PARKES. Grant and Hodder came in together—I cannot say who wrote it down—all Hodder's orders have been for Tournier and Co.; he gave none for Grant.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Gould came with an order, and paid and fetched them away.

JOHN WATT . I am an interpreter, and am perfectly acquainted with the French language—I have translated correctly a number of letters written from Klein and Son to Galpin and Crochard, of Amiens, and the replies to the English firm; they form a complete correspondence running between October last year and May, 1885.

JULES CROCHARD (Interpreted). I am a member of the firm of Galpin and Crochard, woollen and merino manufacturers, carrying on business at Amiens, in France, but at this moment in liquidation—both I and Galpin had an ordinary education—we commenced this business in 1879, when I was 21, and were doing business in October, 1884—on 8th October I received this letter. (Signed Klein and Son, stating that they had letters from religious communities inquiring about cloth, and would be glad if Messrs. Galpin and Crochard would supply them with their samples and prices, and that they would give the best references in Paris and London, and all possible guarantees.) I replied to that and then received this of 25th October. (This was headed P. K. Klein and Son, Tourist, Railway, and Hotel Agents, 6, Garrick Street. It acknowledged the receipt of a book of samples, and requested by way of trial that a piece of anacost, at 3 francs 40, should be sent, giving a reference Pere Maurice, Notre Dame.) We executed that order, and were paid for it, 300 francs—those letters

were in the elder Klein's handwriting—on 7th November we received this, signed by the younger Klein, and with a postscript by the elder one, (This ordered more cloth, and enclosed a bill for 1,000 francs.) That bill was met at maturity. (Other letters were read: one in the elder Klein's handwriting, of 24th November, asking if he could not have 30 days' credit, and requesting a piece of merino and cashmere to be sent; a letter of 5th December, acknowledging receipt of the goods, and enclosing an account showing that Klein was indebted 687 francs; and a bill for 328 francs at 60 days; this also requested that goods should be sent by express, and that they intended pushing the stuffs among all the Convents and High clergy in Great Britain, and would wish to be the sole agents in Great Britain; and a reply from Crochard stating that he would be glad to see Klein if he would go to France; and a letter of 13th December from Klein asking for further goods, and stating that they had written for good representatives in Holland and Belgium to their friend the Dutch priest, and that the younger Klein would probably be with them in a fortnight.) Before that the elder Klein had paid us a visit at Amiens, when we had arranged with him the terms on which he was to remain our customer, and extended the credit to 60 days, and constituted him at his request our agent and representative in London, and permitted him so to describe himself on his letter paper—it was also arranged at that interview that he was to introduce customers to us, having one or three per cent. on all the business they did, according to the client—the customers were to have 30 days' credit generally, except Tournier, with whom the terms were 20 per cent. for cash, 30 per cent. at two months, and 40 per cent. at four months—I showed him over our warehouse at Amiens—on his return he wrote the letter of 13th December. (A letter of 22nd December from Klein was read; it enclosed a bill in settlement of the last invoice, and stated that he would write tomorrow about a grand lot. A voluminous correspondence was put in and read, passing between the defendants and M. Crochard, relating to various transactions between them and others.) Klein and Son guaranteed the payment of Kappenberg's account—they were Klein and Son's own acceptances in the cases of Kappenberg, and they were fully responsible for the account he opened, and it was on that account I increased the commission I allowed to Klein to three per cent.—Klein was responsible, and had three per cent. therefore for all but Tournier; for him he was not responsible, and therefore only had one per cent.—that is in the main the correspondence between us—between the beginning of January and the middle of April we supplied 95,000 francs' worth of goods to Klein and Son—we received for them 88,000 francs' worth of acceptances from them, and there was an uncovered balance of 7,000 francs between us when we went into liquidation—of the 88,000 francs, 74,000 francs were dishonoured at maturity—to Kappenberg I supplied about 1,000 francs' worth, receiving acceptances for the same amount, which were all dishonoured at maturity—to Courty, Foster, and Co. I supplied 15,000 francs' worth, receiving acceptances for the amount, of which 13,000 francs were dishonoured—to Tournier and Co. I supplied 47,000 francs' worth, receiving an equal amount in bills, of which 34,000 francs, the bills I received through Klein for Messrs. Grant and Co., purported to represent about 10,000 francs, the whole of which were dishonoured—I received about 9,000 francs of Kitchener's through the same source, of

which the whole was dishonoured; about 9,000 francs of Gould's, all dishonoured; about 1,300 francs of Carnsick's, all dishonoured; about 6,000 francs of Wagner's, all dishonoured; of Charles Bird, of Shenton Street, 800 francs, all dishonoured, and 847 francs of James Brown, all dishonoured—I did no business with McDonald—at the time I parted with my goods I believed in the prisoners' solvency completely, and at the moment I received the bills I believed they were good and valid securities for the payment of money, and that Klein, Kappenberg, Tournier, Gould, Grant, Kitchener, and the persons named on them were carrying on genuine trades and businesses; if not, I should not have parted with my goods—where the bills came from Klein's customers I believed they represented debts owing to Klein—upon those beliefs I parted with my goods—I am at this moment in liquidation, owing to the dishonour of these bills for 122,000 francs, and 7,000 francs uncovered, altogether 130,000 francs.

Cross-examined by MR. MOYSES. My liabilities were 113,000 francs, and my assets on 1st April, if the bills had been good, were 194,000 francs—my total turn-over with Klein was 174,000 francs—my total turnover for the year without Klein was 300,000 francs—I said at the Mansion House I turned over with Klein in six months more than all the rest I did in the year, but I corrected that afterwards—my books are here—Gould's amount is represented by three bills—his was the last—there were given two on 25th and one on 27th March, maturing on 20th April and 1st and 2nd May—I was not in difficulties with my bankers before these bills were given, and I was only embarrassed with them with reference to Klein's bills—from October, 1884, up to end of March, when the unsatisfactory relations commenced, the acceptances were duly met—Klein had paid me altogether about 28,000 francs—the first bill dishonoured was that drawn on 17th January at 90 days—we drew up our liquidation petition on 21st April, four days after the first bill was dishonoured—Flament my clerk, Galpin, and my wife were present at my first interview with Klein in December—none of them are here—I told Klein I was a manufacturer, but we call manufacturers those who take goods first hand from the maker, as well as the actual maker—we did not make the goods—we had orders for all goods sent to Klein except the last lot, but they were sent as a sequel to goods ordered—Klein sometimes gave orders vivd voce when he saw the goods in stock at Amiens—Klein was there four or five times—he said he did not know the goods—he told me he had no capital, but had a very extensive connection on which he could always rely in case of accident—Mr. Flament left my employment at the end of June—I know of no transaction between Flament and Klein except the matter which is shown in the correspondence—I took that up as part of the firm's business—Flament had no authority to do business himself with my clients—we kept him to help in the liquidation—Klein was our sole consignee for England—he told me he was a tourist agent—he was free to do what he liked with the goods sent him—I invoiced them at the lowest possible price—I asked afterwards 80 cents less for goods I priced at 1 f. 10 c., because it is better to take a lower price than keep them—Klein said it would be better to keep an open stock in London, and that he would keep them as his own goods and as sole consignee—it was never agreed that any of these bills should be renewed, and none were renewed—Klein told

me his son was a master in the French Catholic Institute—my name was put on the letter paper at Klein's request—I insisted on Klein's accepting all the bills himself, and so making himself proprietor—I objected to his having a stock—I contemplated gradually doing a large business with Klein—I asked for references at first as to Klein, and I referred about October or November to an inquiry office in Paris, and got an answer, "Good character, but no capital"—I sent him a little at a time, and, in consequence of successive payments, sent more goods—I was told the younger Klein was engaged in literary work—part of the acceptances were received before the goods were sent off—I sent off goods to Tournier in January, after referring to the inquiry office in Paris—I was not in need of bills then—I do not think the goods I sent off were often very faulty—I examined each piece—once or twice Klein complained of their being faulty—we had no complaints as to short lengths—he sent none back—he said he would come over to show me pieces of which he complained—I swear I never told him to keep them and do what he could with them—there may have been letters between us which have not been read—once complaints were made about the dye being faulty—Klein did not offer to return them—he sent a sample—he mentioned Courty Foster to me in conversation, and said they were going to do business with working tailors and small retailers—this must have been at the beginning of February—in every case the invoiced price of the goods was their fair value, with 3 per cent. discount—possibly on 2nd March I told Klein my bankers would take no more acceptances—that caused an embarrassment, and I then told Klein to give me the names of other customers, and that I was going to open an account at the Credit Lyonnaise—I did not say Sampson, my banker, was no business man—Klein said so—I possibly asked Klein if he could find 1,000l. or 1,600l. in London for 10 or 14 days—I said nothing to him about a spinning mill—perhaps Klein once complained that he could not do business with the goods I sent him, but he ordered others—Klein told me Grant was a salesman in the City, who knew more about the goods than he did—I took Klein's acceptances for goods supplied to Kappenberg, because Klein was to have a profit on them and Kappenberg was not to know what profit was—we gave the order to the manufacturers for the double chain mentioned on 12th February—it was never supplied—Klein said he had made an arrangement with Grant—the great lot of double chain was a matter of 40,000 francs, too much to deliver till we knew about the bills—it was in course of manufacture by Gave and Plenz—I had no communication with Grant, Kitchener, nor Gould—they were all names given me by Klein—all the goods I sent Klein was responsible for at the invoice price, except as to the pieces he said were faulty—I said he could do as he liked with them to reimburse himself—we would not deliver the 40,000 francs order without having 35,000 francs in bills—after I told Klein openly at the latter part of March that we were in trouble with our bankers there were transactions between us—it is possible I asked him to do the impossible—at the end of March or beginning of April I sent off 30,000 or 35,000 francs' worth of goods.

Cross-examined by MR. RICHMOND. I trusted perfectly to Klein—I did not know Grant, and made no inquiries and required no referenres—I

looked to Klein for payment—we executed no order to Grant—I should not have accepted Grant's bills had they not come through Klein.

Cross-examined by Hodder (MR. KEITH FRITH and MR. PARKES having retired from the case). I had two orders from Tournier through Klein—I made my own inquiries as to Tournier, and on that information sent the goods—I mentioned the address Queen Victoria Street when I made the inquiries—the goods I sent were not damaged to the extent of 100l.—when in treaty with Tournier I asked 1 10, Tournier objected to that as too high a price, and I took off 85 centimes—in all 13,000 francs was paid by Tournier and Co. on acceptances—we received 42,000 francs from Klein on all transactions—13,000 francs was paid up to Christmas, and since Christmas we have received 29,000 francs—the total amount of bills received altogether was 167,000 francs—we sent goods worth 174,000 francs, so that 7,000 francs remained uncovered—4,520l. was the amount of unpaid acceptances at the end—20 per cent. was paid in cash by Tournier through Klein—Klein's first bill was dated 1st November at 30 days for 1,000 francs—I have a stock of velvet at Amiens which Mr. Klein proposed—I did not authorise Klein to buy it—I gave him a sample to see where he could buy it and on what conditions—that was the only arrangement I entered into with him about that.

Re-examined. By the beginning of April Klein had paid 800l., leaving 5,820l. due.

WALTER RICHES . I was a clerk to Robert Palmer Tebb, of 85, King William Street, City, the owner of 45, Falcon Street, Falcon Square, which he lets out in rooms—in July last Francis Camsick became a tenant of a room there at 22l. a year, and took possession—I tried, but could not get a sixpence of the rent from him, and could only see him with difficulty; he slept in the room and locked himself in—on 18th June I saw him go in and got in myself before he could shut the door—the room was empty but for a deed box and a brush—it was dirty—there was no bed.

MARY WOOD . I am a widow and am housekeeper of 70, Lower Thames Street—about nine months or a year ago two people came and took a small back room on the third floor—Wagner and Son was the name on the door—they had letters addressed there—they were pretty constantly there for about three months about the beginning of last October—I saw nothing of them after February—plenty of people called for them, and notices were put in the letter box, three or four bills a day sometimes—written on the door was "Bills for acceptance."

WALTER BIRD . I live at 18, Shanton Street, and am a labourer in the building trade at present working on the water—this bill is not mine, nor was it written with my authority—I never accepted a bill of exchange in my life—I have lived in that street for fifteen months—I do not know Paul Klein and Son at all—I know no Charles Bird living in that street—I have two brothers, but they are not named Charles Bird.

JAMES ATKINS JARMAN . I am clerk in the cashier's office of the South Eastern Railway at the Bricklayers' Arms—I produce a letter signed J. S. Copsey pro P. K. Klein, giving the Company orders to hold goods to the order of P. K. Klein—I produce a receipt dated 1st January, 1885, from the French Northern Railway for one case from Amiens for

P. K. Klein—this is the consignment note handed in at Paris to P. K. Klein, marked F G over J C 8290, the order is signed P. K. Klein and Son to deliver the case to bearer—the delivery sheet of 7th January is signed by A. Grant—this is an order of 23rd January, signed P. K. Klein, for the delivery of two cases marked F G over J C 34034 and the delivery order is signed for by G. Fox—I have got a receipt of 22nd January for five cases delivered to Glover to oblige Tournier—I had an order before that to deliver to Tournier from Klein—there is a delivery sheet of 30th January signed W. H. Hodder—there is a consignment note on 22nd; an order by Klein on 28th; an order by Tournier on the 28th, and the receipt by Hodder on the 30th—there were five cases for Klein marked F G over J C 3430-34—there was Klein's order to deliver to Tournier's order—Tournier's order to deliver at 145, Queen Victoria Street, and the carman's delivery sheet of 11th February signed "A. Grant"—on 18th February, there were six cases F G over J C for Tournier and a delivery sheet of 4th February, signed Tournier and Co.—on 26th February three cases for Courty, Foster, and Co., 3457 to '59, the delivery sheet signed Courty Foster—on 5th March three cases for Klein and Son—I have their order to deliver to Grant and Co., 3, Bakehouse Court, Godliman Street, and the delivery sheet is signed "Grant and Co."—on 5th March five cases, 13477 to '81, for Tournier and Co.—the delivery sheet of 11th March is signed R. Kitchener—there are several others signed R. Kitchener—I have got a general order of 23rd March addressed to the manager of the Continental depot that in future all goods arriving to Klein's order were to be delivered to Grant and Co., Paul's Bakehouse Court, and after that all goods coming for Klein were delivered at that address.

Cross-examined by MR. MOYSES. There was one order signed by Klein for a delivery to Courty, Foster, and Co., I overlooked that at the Mansion House.

Cross-examined by MR. RICHMOND. Up to 6th March all goods signed for by A. Grant were transferred to Tournier's order—on that date they were delivered at Grant's place—any authorised person can sign the sheets for the firm we deliver to.

Cross-examined by Hodder. We should not know if Grant was your servant when he signed Tournier and Co. pro A. Grant.

JAMES WATSON BROWN (In custody). I live at 308, Fulham Road, and was a builder—I have known Grant for eight or 10 years—this is not my acceptance—I have seen Grant's handwriting—I am not sure if it is his acceptance, I remember giving a bill to Grant about 12 months ago—I wrote my name on a blank form for the purpose of his opening a shop—I am not sure if this is my handwriting, if I wrote anything it would be this "Brown"—this is a sample of my ordinary handwriting which I wrote when I went to the solicitor's before I was admitted into the room.

Cross-examined by MR. RICHMOND. I will not swear I did not sign the James Brown"—Grant asked me to accept a bill as security for fitting up the shop, and I signed on a blank bill stamp—I received no consideration for so signing—this is not the way I would sign.

Re-examined. I am in prison at present.

GEORGE FROST . I am a carman in the employ of the South-Eastern

Railway Company—on 30th January I took five cases to Glover and Co., 22, Leonard Street, Tabernacle—this is the delivery sheet which was signed.

WILLIAM TARLING . I am a carman in the employment of the South-Eastern Railway Company—on March 30 I took goods to Courty, Foster, and Co., 9, Lower John Street, Golden Square—this delivery sheet was signed by no one here—on the same day I took three cases similarly marked to P. K. Klein and Son, 6, Garrick Street, where the elder Klein gave me this written order to take the goods to Grant and Co., 3, Paul's Bakehouse Court—I took them there, and Grant signed the delivery sheet—on 23rd and 24th March I delivered cases to Klein and Son, 6, Garrick Street, and the younger Klein signed on each occasion.

Cross-examined by MR. MOYSES. Any one on the premises might have signed for them.

JOHN HAZEL . I am a carman in the employment of the South-Eastern Railway—on 15th February I delivered two cases marked F. G. over J. C. at 145, Queen Victoria Street, to Grant and Hodder—on a great many occasions I delivered such goods to them, and they signed for them—on some occasions I delivered goods to Kitchener at 145, Queen Victoria Street, and he signed for them—two consignments to be delivered at Tournier's I took to 36, St. Andrew's Hill—Kitchener went with me, and it was in consequence of what he said I took them there, where a man unpacked them outside the door, we could not get them in—Kitchener took them in—that happened on several occasions.

GEORGE DAVIS . I am a carman in the employ of the South-Eastern Railway—on 4th March I took some cases to 9, Lower John Street, Golden Square, to an office which had outside the name of Courty, Foster, and Co.—I brought them back without delivering to the Brick-layers' Arms—the office was not shut up—I saw Klein there, I am positive, and a fair gentleman with him—it was in consequence of what they said I took the cases back to await their orders.

WILLIAM RADCLIFFE . I am manager to William Hamson, a pawnbroker, of 41, Aldersgate Street, in the City—I have known Grant for many years—I know Kitchener—on 28th January Grant brought me two pieces of cashmere to pawn—he gave his address as Exeter Terrace, Canning Town—I asked him whose property they were; he said his—I agreed to lend him 14l. on special contract note—on the next occasion I said I wanted to see his title, invoice or something—on 7th February Kitchener came to me with a note from Grant and this invoice from Tournier and Co. for 7l. 10s.—I advanced 4l.—on 18th February I advanced 15l. on four pieces of cashmere; 35l. on 21st February on four pieces of cashmere; 9l. on 24th February on one piece of cashmere; and on 7th April 12l. on four pieces of cashmere—all those pieces had been identified by Crochard—the total I advanced between 8th January and 7th April was 98l.

HENRY ROBERT ELLIS . I am manager to W. Dobree, pawnbroker, of Charlotte Street—I have known Grant some years—from January to May Grant pawned with me merino, cashmere, and stuff goods—on 2nd January five pieces for 24l. (that was afterwards renewed on 27th February, it was the same transaction)—there were seven transactions between 27th February and 14th May, amounting in all to 323l. 10s.; that was

the amount I actually paid him—Grant pledged the property himself on all occasions—Mr. Crochard has identified these goods.

Cross-examined by MR. MOYSES. 300l. worth of these have been redeemed and delivered to the order of Tournier, but they were previously sampled by Grant and asked to be delivered to Bentley, a warehouseman in Cheapside—the actual amount of the pawning was about 600l.; 300l. was redeemed and about 323l. left with me—I have known Grant, and I saw the invoices in all these cases.

Cross-examined by MR. RICHMOND. I did not understand Grant to say that he was getting advances to meet bills given to a foreign house to assist it—he brought Klein in two instances to show that he (Klein) was the owner, and Grant said he was pledging for Klein to help him take up bills; I do not remember if he said for a foreign house; it was in those two instances—I saw bills and invoices—I objected to many bills, and they showed they had taken up many of the bills with the money I was advancing, that the business was legitimate—I wished to see Klein after the first advance, I believe, as his name was on the invoice, and he came in two instances and satisfied me Grant had his authority to deposit goods, that he was acting for him—I went to Queen Victoria Street in one instance, and I have been to Garrick Street.

Re-examined. I saw Hodder at Queen Victoria Street—I did no transaction with him—Grant introduced me to him—I think in all instances the invoices were from Galpin and Crochard to Klein and Son—I never bought goods, only advanced money on them, in all 600l., of which 323l. worth still remain on my premises.

By MR. MOYSES. I never saw the younger Klein.

CHARLES ROBERT BURTON . I am an auctioneer at the Broadway, Ludgate Hill—I have known Grant for many years—Hodder I saw at Tournier's office—he called on 12th February to know if I would make an advance on cashmeres and merinos—as usual before making one I wanted to know if they were respectable people and to see their premises—I called and saw the office and stock-room, and required some references—he gave me these three references: Hodder and Green, 94, Tabernacle; Glover and Co., 56, Leonard Street; and the Phoenix Dock Company, Clink Street—Hodder gave the name of Tournier and Co. when he first called, and gave me this card—he introduced himself as Tournier and Co., and I said, "You are not a Frenchman?"—he said, "No, I am a Berkshireman"—I said, "Why are you trading as Tournier and Co.?"—he said. "I am doing a trade in Swiss watches, and take that name"—I consented to advance him money, and the first transaction was 130l.—Mr. Waller, my manager, has the particulars—the last transaction was on April 2nd—the total amount of advances was 450l.—I made them by cheque payable to Tournier and Co.—the cheques are here—the dates are February 12th, 25th, March 30th, April 2nd—there were four transactions, five cheques—Hodder was the sole person I had to deal with as Tournier and Co.—I never cross a cheque unless I am requested to do so, and they are not therefore all crossed—they are all in favour of Tournier, and endorsed "Tournier and Co."—a few days before I heard of this affair I received this letter in his writing—I got no memorandum or document when the goods were deposited—we make a note on the piece of the number—they were brought to my warehouse at the Broadway from Queen Victoria Street and remain there—I should think

they would fill more than a vanload; I have left 157 pieces; we had more than that—he has paid 154l. and taken a lot away—I think there was no list given in this case of what was left—I have left at home a list describing the terms of deposit—this order came for us to send 200l. worth to Bentley, but the prisoners were arrested about that time, I think, and so the goods did not go.

Cross-examined by Hodder. You telegraphed from Manchester that you would require at least 100l.—I think you told me when last I saw you that I should get no more goods, because the people supplying them had failed—very likely you said you were a loser by it, I don't remember—very frequently tradesmen deposit goods with me to meet their accounts—I just do the bookkeeping—I didn't see the goods—I could have expected nothing further in the way of references than those I had from you; the Phoenix one was the weakest—I wrote to them—you bought small amounts of jewellery of me.

GIDEON JARRETT . I am a buyer for Alfred Bentley, warehouseman, of 136, Cheapside—in February this year I was brought into communication through Barnett and Munday with Hodder, who called himself Tournier, a merchant of Queen Victoria Street, and offered to sell merinos at about 6 1/2 d. per metre for cash—I gave him 6 1/8d. per metre on 28th February, to the amount of 74l. 14s. and 69l. 16s. 9d.—I did not know Tournier and Co., and that was my first transaction with them—I continued to buy from Hodder at the same price down to 30th May, paying him in all 1,742l. 17s.—I went to Starbuck's one morning with Tournier, or met him there, and then our last transaction was arranged, to the amount of 134l. 19s. 1d.—I paid by cheque, which I believe has been stopped by us—many of the goods remain on our premises—I was there when Mr. Crochard visited and identified others as being his, to the amount of 30 or 40 pieces perhaps.

Cross-examined by MR. MOYSES. I considered 6 1/8d. fair value; they were not high class goods, somewhat inferior quality; if more than 6 1/2 d. had been charged by the manufacturers I should consider it an excessive price.

Cross-examined by Hodder. I met you with Ellis at Starbuck's to examine some goods; they were in very bad condition, and I never saw any worse made—as a rule; the goods sent me were short in length; reductions were made in the payments on account of short measure—I should consider the things I bought of you were job goods—the colours were bad—I understood you had bought the goods and had to sell them, for the manufacturers wanted to buy some wool, something to that effect, and that you had advanced money against the black goods and bought the coloured ones—you said you had been to Manchester and Bradford, and that the manufacturers wanted money to buy some wool—you said you had lodged 115 pieces with Burton for an advance, and that you had parted with all the money you had received, and could not pay Burton's interest—the last one or two transactions Ellis came with you to receive the cheque, and would not part with the goods till he got the cheque—I have seen you with watches.

FREDERICK ERNEST HUGHES . I am cashier to Alfred Bentley, of Cheapside—the 134l. 19s. 1d. was paid to Hodder by cheques made out by me—some of the cheques were crossed, but when an open cheque was asked for, I gave it—they were always "to order," made out in Tournier and Co.'s name—I always knew Hodder as Tournier, never as Hodder till I

saw him here—we inquired of the Trade Protection Society about Tournier and Co., but could find out nothing about them—I also inquired of our solicitors, Phelps and Co.—we don't usually make inquiries when buying goods.

Cross-examined by Hodder I bought a gold watch of you; I haven't wound it up lately—I only had to pay you—we charged you four per cent, discount for paying you rash—I know you have brought the goods to us, we have bid a price, and you have gone elsewhere to sell them.

ARTHUR SARSEN STARBUCK . I am a packer and finisher, at 4, Distaff Lane—in February last I was introduced to the firm of Tournier and Co.—their only representative I knew then was Grant; afterwards I knew Hodder as Tournier—from time to time large quantities of goods were taken to my premises straight as they arrived from the Continent, and were cut into half-pieces, measured, rolled on boards, and papered and prepared for delivery—the marks of the manufacturers were taken off them when they were brought there, off the fag ends of the pieces—this went on till some time in May—sometimes we delivered them to different houses and sometimes they were fetched away by their own cart—on 7th April I received 13 cases on account of Robarta and Co., to A. Grant's order, of Paul's Bakehouse Court—afterwards we were instructed to transfer Roberta's goods to Schuler and Co., to be hold to Grant's order—afterwards we received goods on account of A. Schuler and Co., to hold to Grant's order—we still have 52 pieces of the goods in our possession.

Cross-examined by Hodder. We have had a large quantity from time to time of goods from Galpin, Crochard, and Co.—we did not find all the measures right—I did not notice if they were damaged.

ALFRED WILLIAM MUNDAY . I am a commission agent, of 6, Foster Lane—I received patterns from Hodder, which I was to sell for him, in the first place he told me at 6 1/2 d.—in the end I went to Messrs. Bentley; they would not buy at 6 1/2 d., but they did at 6 1/8d., after I had communicated with Hodder—he was present at most of the sales—I took some samples to Mr. Jarrett, at Bentley's—Hodder went by the name of Tournier at this time; I knew him as Hodder—I also sold goods to the Fore Street Warehouse Company in the same way at the same price, I believe—the cheques in all instances were made out to Tournier and Co.—after these transactions I met Grant one day in Knightrider Street—he spoke of merinos he had to sell, and took me to an office at 3, Paul's Bakehouse Court, when he gave me patterns of goods similar in all respects to those I had sold for Hodder—I disposed of 100 pieces to John Howell and Co. at 6 1/2 d., I believe, and handed the two cheques, which were for about 200l. and 190l., and in the name of Tournier and Co., to Grant—the goods in respect of which I received those cheques were delivered by Kitchener, whom I always looked upon as Grant's man—I paid Grant the balance at St. Paul's Bakehouse Court, I believe—afterwards I sold to Messrs. Bradbury, Greatorex, and Co.—I believe Grant told me to sell there, and I got a cheque for fully 100l., which I handed to Grant, I believe—I remember being in Gutter Lane and seeing black merinos of the same quality going in to Bentley's; Hodder was walking about outside with Mr. Ellis, Mr. Dobree, the pawnbroker's, foreman—I attempted more transactions, but could not effect them—I sold on a commission of 2 1/2 per cent.—I had some expenses allowed me, and in one instance when I got a better price I had 5 per cent. and expenses—some

months ago Grant handed me a watch and asked me if I wanted one—I said "No"—he said "You can have this watch and try to sell it, and what you make over 30s. you can have; I bought and paid for it with cash"—this was at his place; I saw three or four there, I think—it was not gold—on one occasion I asked Hodder for money he owed me for commission; he told me he was very short, but he had a watch which he would allow me to pawn—I did so—this was after I had disposed of the property—they had not done so much latterly—the watches from Hodder and Grant were similar—there was an investigation about them afterwards at the police-court.

Cross-examined by MR. MOYSES. I have been 30 years in the trade—these were nothing like goods of a high-class quality—the price first asked was 7d.—I said it was a ridiculous price, and I then submitted a price to Hodder, which he would not take—I do not know what price was put on them by the manufacturers—I never saw the names of Galpin and Crochard attached to them—the colours of the first parcel were outrageous, and they were quite a low quality article.

Cross-examined by Hodder. I had trouble to sell the goods—I tried the whole of the wholesale and best retail houses to get a better price—I got the best price that was to be got—you went with me to Manchester—we spent three weeks there, but could not sell a yard of it—we could not get anything like the price offered in London—I sold about 10 pieces of pink, which were returned damaged; they were a better class of stuff, and when I went for the money the goods were all spoiled—two pieces were kept on a reduction—I got something like 3s. 2d. a yard for the double cashmere—you told me you sent the cheque for that to London, to meet a bill—you were not in London when the merino was sold to Howell at 6 1/8d., through myself by Grant—you told me to see Grant before he gave me the samples.

Cross-examined by MR.RICHMOND. I believed Kitchener was Grant's servant.

Re-examined. Hodder paid the expenses of the three weeks at Manchester.

JOHN CHAPMAN . I am a buyer in the mercer's department of the Fore Street Warehouse—I bought three parcels of merino on 12th March for 116l. 18s. 10d. through the last witness, representing Tournier and Co.—Hodder was not there on the first occasion, but he was on the second, on 13th March when I bought a lot of goods for 169l. 8s. in the same way—on 17th March I bought another lot for 74l. 11s. 7d.

Cross-examined by MR. MOYSES. The goods were very inferior merinos, we gave the full price for them, I think it was 6 1/4 d.

Cross-examined by Hodder. They were sent out and measured and were all fairly good measure, they were certainly job goods.

WILLIAM GEORGE THORNE . I am a cashier at the Fore Street Warehouse—on 12th March a statement of account was presented to me for goods delivered by Tournier and Co. and payment asked for—I mentioned 3 1/2 per cent, discount for prompt payment, it was acquiesced in—116l. 18s. 10d. may have been the amount—they wished an open cheque, and I gave them one for 112l. 17s., but I first spoke to Chapman about it—the statement was receipted "Tournier and Co." by Munday, he was accompanied by Hodder, I think—on 14th and 17th I paid two amounts, deducting 3 1/2 per cent. for prompt payment, by open cheques, as

I was asked for them—on all three occasions Munday was accompanied by Hodder.

Cross-examined by MR. MOYSES. 3 1/2 per cent. is the usual discount for prompt payment.

Cross-examined by Hodder. I swear Munday signed the receipts on each occasion—it is nothing unusual when we have got the goods, for people to come into the counting-house for the money.

STEPHEN HENRY WISEMAN . I am a buyer in the merino department of John Howell and Co., 3, St. Paul's Churchyard—on 17th April Munday came to me with a card from Tournier and Co., 145, Queen Victoria Street, to sell merinos—I bought 300l. worth at 6 1/4 d. a metre for cash—the goods were delivered the same day, this is the invoice.

Cross-examined by MR. MOYSES. They were of very inferior quality.

Cross-examined by Hodder. I gave full value for them unfortunately, as I lost money on them.

WILLIAM JOHN WILKES . I am a cashier in John Howell and Co's. employment—I produce a receipted statement and an open cheque for 189l. 7s. paid by me to Tournier and Co.—there is another cheque for 200l. on account of the same parcel—the discount of 3 3/4 per cent. for prompt payment would come to 11l.—in both instances I was asked for open cheques.

Cross-examined by MR. MOYSES. There is nothing unusual in paying with open cheques.

HENRY BROWSE LAKEMAN . I am a buyer in the merino department of Bradbury, Greatorex, and Co.—on 27th April Munday, representing the firm of Tournier and Co., 145, Queen Victoria Street, offered me samples of merino for sale, one at a shilling and another at 9d. a metre—I bought a parcel of each—the first lot came to 39l. and the other to 102l. 8s. 2d.—they were a very inferior class of goods, I sold them at a profit.

Cross-examined by MR. MOYSES. I gave what I considered fair value.

Cross-examined by Hodder. They were job goods, French merinos, which when good 14/16 are worth 20d.—there would be a reduction for job goods.

EDWIN DALY . I am cashier to Bradbury, Greatorex, and Co.—on 28th April I paid Tournier and Co. by open cheque for two parcels of merino, deducting 3 1/2 per cent. for prompt payment—we had written authority from Tournier and Co. brought by Munday to pay by open cheque.

Cross-examined by MR. MOYSES. It was quite an everyday occurrence.

JOHN MITCHELL (City Detective Sergeant). On 29th May warrants were placed in my hands for the arrest of the two Kleins, Grant, Hodder, Kitchener, Gould, and Kappenberg, and on the evening of that day I went to Klein's, 6, Garrick Street, Covent Garden, and watched the house for two hours, from 4 to 6 o'clock, when the elder Klein entered the house, and shortly after the younger one—outside the house was painted "The Central Pharmacy of England"—a shut shop fronted the pavement, and painted on a door by the side of the shop were the names of Klein and Son with no description—I knocked at the door, which was opened by a servant, who answered my inquiry, and I went upstairs with Sergeant Outram—on the first landing I saw the younger Klein—he said "What do you want?"—I said "We are police officers"—we were in plain clothes—I said "I believe your name is Paul Krauss Klein, junior"—he said it was—I said "Yes, I have a warrant for your arrest, which I will read to you"—I did so, and he said "I know nothing about it"—I said

"I have also a warrant for the arrest of your father; is he in?"—he said "No"—I said "Oh yes, he must be in, because I have seen him come in"—he said "Oh, then follow me"—I followed him into the front room oil the first floor, where I saw the elder Klein and two other men—I said to the elder Klein "I have a warrant for your arrest, and I will read it to you"—I did so—he said "I have paid 35,000 francs to them"—Crochard's name appeared in the warrant—Klein said "The goods they sent me were such rubbish that I was unable to dispose of them"—I said "What have you done with the goods, then?"—he said "Oh, I have had to realise on the goods to meet demands"—I understood him to say "On Crochard"—I said "Where are your papers?"—he handed me this bundle, which he said were intended for his solicitor—I also took possession of other papers pointed out to me by the younger Klein at the wish of his father—I subsequently examined them, and amongst them found this classified list of manufacturers and wholesale dealers on the Continent—I found correspondence from other dealers on the Continent—I also found the press copy of this letter. (This letter, which Mr. Netherclift stated was in Klein senior's handwriting, addressed to Grant, was read.) I found a bill book in which were the names of the prisoners and those of Camsick; Kappenberg, Wagner, Bird, and Brown appear, and nearly all the bills, which are the frauds and the subject of this investigation are mentioned—I took the Kleins to the police-station, where they were searched—the younger Klein handed me this letter on the way to the station voluntarily. (This letter in German, dated 12th April, which Mr. Netherclift stated was in Klein senior's handwriting, was read.) On 30th May Gould and Kitchener were brought to the station by Bryan—after I had read the warrants to them they simply said they had nothing to say—I was present at Kitchener's arrest—on the way to the station he said "I am only servant to Grant, and the pawntickets found on me relate to goods he sent me to pledge—at the station they were searched, and on Kitchener was found a memorandum form: "A. Murray, baker and confectioner, 4, Extra Terrace, Frederick's Road, Tidal Basin;" two pawntickets for silver watches; the contract-note for a roll of stuff; an envelope addressed Tournier and Co., 146, Queen Victoria Street; a rent book of 39, St. Andrew's Hill; a card of Robert Stacey, Shoreditch; and 1s. 3 1/2 d.—on Gould I found a card of "A. Schuler and Co., 100, Quai de Leste, Anvers;" an envelope stamped "Mr. A. Grant, Messrs. Grant and Co., 3, Bake-house Court"—cards of the Victoria Dock Bakery, 4, Exeter Terrace, Canning Town, a letter of W. H. Gould, and bill forms of Tournier and Co., 145, Queen Victoria 8treet, a memorandum-book, and 2 1/2 d. (ALFRED CHAPMAN was recalled, and stated that the acceptances on the bills produced were in Hodder's handwriting.) On 2nd June I went with Bryan to search Tournier's office at 145, Queen Victoria Street—Outram had been there previously—they were two rooms, nice looking offices, with the name of Tournier on the door, and painted on the glass also—I saw a number of packing cases there with the prosecutor's initials, F. G. over J. C.—I found scarcely any books there—I found these papers addressed "Tournier and Co., watch manufacturers;" "Grant and Co., merchants;" "A.E. Hodder and Co.," and "A. Grant and Co.;" cards of Schuler and Co., and an India rubber stamp was found there—I went to 3, Paul's Bakehouse Court, on the doorpost was painted "Grant and Co., sole consignees of Schuler and Co."—the offices were on the second floor, where I found a number of packing cases bearing the initials F. G.

over J. C., two books, one is "Schuler and Co., stock-book, 1885," that has entries in the middle of the book—the other is a ledger in which several entries to Hodder and Klein appear—there was also a bill of lading, "Grant and Co., 3, Bakehouse Court"—a memorandum for Tournier and Co., 145, Queen Victoria Street; Murray and Co., 4, Exeter Terrace; a card of Hodder, 17, Queen Victoria Street; and a card of McDonald, 17, Queen Victoria Street; a quantity of Schuler's cards and envelopes, and a stamp "Grant and Co."—I found a stamp also at St. Andrew's Hill, "K. Kitchener and Co."—there is a person McDonald, who calls himself a merchant—I then went to 39, St. Andrew's Hill, where the name of Kitchener and Co. was up, but partially painted out—the office was a small back room on the second floor—I found empty cases there with the prosecutor's initials on, no furniture of any kind, no books or papers, but samples of dress stuff which Mr. Crochard recognised, and a stamp—on 5th June I went with Outram to the Elm public-house, Wayburn, Surrey, where I found Hodder in the bagatelle-room of the public-house on the ground floor, darning some stockings—he had then no whiskers nor moustache—I told him we were police-officers, and that I believed his name was Albert Edward Hodder—he said "Yes"—I said "I have a warrant for your arrest, I will read it to you"—I did so, and said "Are you the person referred to in this warrant?"—he said "Yes," and after some refreshment I brought him to London—Outram searched him.

Cross-examined by MR. MOYSES. The elder Klein was in Dr. Baillet's room—the younger Klein might possibly not have known his father was in the house—the elder Klein was with Dr. Baillet and Schuler, I believe—I think his proper name is Cockerel—the younger Klein gave me all the papers under his father's directions, there was no attempt at concealment, the younger one did just what his father told him—I made a diligent search and found a great number of letters, some of which have not been put in—any one could have examined the letters in my presence—I cannot say if I found letters addressed to or signed "Flament"—I have made inquiries about the younger Klein from persons who know him well, and I found those inquiries favourable—the schoolmaster of the school he was in speaks well of him—I saw no tourist agency books, and nothing about a tourist agency on the door.

Cross-examined by MR. RICHMOND. Tournier and Co.'s were very good offices.

Cross-examined by Hodder. The two rooms at 145, Queen Victoria Street were properly furnished.

Re-examined. Every access has been given to the papers.

ROBERT OUTRAM (City Police Sergeant). I was with Mitchell when he arrested the two Kleins—I found pawn-tickets of recent date referring to articles of clothing—I was present when Bryan brought in Gould and Kitchener, and I searched Gould and handed what I found to Mitchell—on the same day I went with Bryan to 3, Paul's Bakehouse Court, opened the door with a key found on Grant, and found there packing-cases, a book, and this letter with the heading "Schuler and Co.," written by Klein from Antwerp to Grant, dated May 23rd—I handed what was found there to Mitchell—I went with Bryant to 30, Watling Street, and opened the door with a key found on Gould—the name painted on the entrance door was "W. Hayes Gauld"—the office was a very small room indeed on the second floor—the office door had also the name of "Gauld" on it,

and there was a card on the door with the name of Bateman on it—I found there the papers and samples which Mitchell has produced—I went to 39, St. Andrew's Hill, and opened the door with a key found on Kitchener—there was no furniture there, but seven empty packing-cases, and six lids marked "F G over J C" and numbered—I went to 145, Queen Victoria Street, and opened the door with one of the keys found on Grant—there were empty packing-cases with some initials on, one partly filled with torn-up paper, no goods—on 1st June I went again, and found these 35 tickets, and 13 half tickets which had apparently been attached to goods and torn off, in a case with a lot of waste paper—I was with Mitchell when he arrested Hodder, who sent a telegram at the station; I copied it, sent the copy, and produce the original. (This was to W. H. Hodder, Walthamstow: "Please call here to see me before 8 to-morrow without fail.") I found this paper on Hodder with the numbers of the pieces of goods and lengths—I went to his house, Salcott Road, and found books and papers there which I handed to Mitchell.

Cross-examined by MR. RICHMOND. The office at 3, Paul's Bakehouse Court was one small ordinary room with a partition across, I think—it was a fairly respectable office.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. I have seen Gould's name spelt both "Gould" and "Gauld."

Cross-examined by Hodder. There were a lot of books and papers at your house—we looked through a lot of files, but could find nothing relating to this matter.

CHARLES BRYAN (Detective Officer). I know the prisoner as Gould—after Klein's arrest I went to 4, Exeter Terrace, Frederick's Road, Canning Town, to arrest Grant—it is a baker's shop—Grant was in bed and appeared asleep—I awoke him and said "Mr. Grant"—he said "Yes"—I said, "I am a police officer from the City, I have a warrant for your arrest"—he said, "What for?"—I said, "Get up and dress and I will read it to you"—he got up and dressed; I read it; it was a charge of conspiring to obtain—he said, "I did not conspire"—when taking him in a cab to Limehouse he said, "Is it about merino?"—I said, "I don't know that it is about"—on the way to the station in the cab he said, "Have you arrested any one else?"—I said, "Yes, Klein and his son have been arrested, very likely others will be arrested to-morrow"—he said, "I shall get out of it"—I said, "Well, of course that is a matter for you"—as we got towards the station he said, "I suppose you don't care who you get so long as you get the people you want?"—I said, "We like to get the people we have warrants for if we can"—he said, "Well, I don't care if I get a lagging for this"—I said, "What do you call a lagging?"—he said, "My boy, you are talking to a fly man"—a fly man is a man that knows a lot—after the warrant was read to him at Bridewell Place he said, "It is a lie"—on him we found 2l. 15s. 6d., a watch and chain, and papers—on Saturday, 30th May, I saw Gould and Kitchener in Carter Lane—I said, "Good morning, Mr. Gould"—he said, "Good morning, Mr. Bryan"—I said, "I have got an inquiry to make respecting you"—he said, "What is it about?"—I said, "What is thatgentleman's name?" turning to kitchener, and I said to him, "What is your name?"—he said "Kitchener"—I said, "I am making inquiries respecting you also"—I said to Gould, "Have you not an office in Watling Street?"—he

said "Yes"—I said, "I want you to go with me there"—on the way to Gould's office I said, "I shall take you both in custody on warrants for being concerned with the prisoner Klein and his son, and Mr. Grant and a man named Hodder not yet in custody, with conspiring to defraud a gentleman named Crochard of a large quantity of merino, about 3,000l."—Gould said, "I know nothing at all about it"—Kitchener said nothing—I took them to the Old Jewry; Mitchell read the warrants to them, and then I took them to Bridewell and charged them—I was with the officers who searched the different addresses; I have heard their evidence and agree with it.

Cross-examined by MR. RICHMOND. Grant told me that voluntarily—I asked no question but his name.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. I told Kitchener I had Klein and Grant in custody—he said "I don't know Klein; I know Grant"—I asked him if he knew Hodder—he said "I know a Mr. Hodder in the boot trade"—that was the prisoner's brother.

THOMAS GALE . I am clerk to Hayman and Benjamin, of Camomile Street—they have represented the firm of Tournier and Co., spectacle makers, of France, for about two years—their name and our firm's name are on our window.

Cross-examined by Hodder. We are agents for them—the firm is called "Les fils d'Emile Tournier."

FREDERICK GEORGE NETHERCLIFT (Re-examined). These seven acceptances are in the elder Klein's handwriting; these four in Grant's; these seven in Courty Foster's; these four in Kitchener's; these three in Gould's (one is doubtful)—Camsick's, Bird's, and Brown's seem to be in Grant's—Brown's acceptance is drawn by Klein, the body filled up by Grant—the body of all these latter ones is by Grant—the signature to one by Klein—one of Kappenberg's is drawn and signed by Klein senior.

Cross-examined. There is not a single bill drawn by Klein junior.

Cross-examined by MR. RICHMOND. I could not tell without a powerful glass whether Grant's bills were filled up after they had been accepted—I would not like to say it was not so.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Kitchener's signature is that of an illiterate man—I could not say without a powerful glass whether in his and Gould's the names were written before the acceptances were filled in.

Cross-examined by Hodder. I don't think I have seen any of your writing—Tournier and Co.'s are all in one hand—I don't recognise the writing on any other acceptances.

JULES CROCHARD (Re-examined by Hodder). The highest price I charged for double twist merino was 6 francs 50 cents.

By MR. MOYSES. The first transaction between me and Klein was paid for by cheque.

WILLIAM JARRETT (Re-examined by Hodder). I cannot remember what price I gave you for double twist French merino, but they were a low price, unsaleable—it was about 20d.

The younger Klein received a good character.

KLEIN (elder), GRANT. and HODDER— GUILTY on all Counts. KLEIN (younger)— GUILTY on all Counts; strongly recommended to mercy. KITCHENER and GOULD GUILTY on the 1st, 13th, and 23rd Counts of Conspiracy. KLEIN†(elder).— Five Years' Penal Servitude. KLEIN

(younger).— Three Months' Hard Labour. HODDER and GRANT†.— Two Years' Hard Labour each. KITCHENER.— Six Months' Hard Labour. GOULD.*— Eight Months' Hard Labour.

. The COURT commended Mitchell, Bryan, Outram, and the other officers.

. Application was made for an order for the restitution of the property, but this was refused by the Court.

NEW COURT.—Monday, September 2lst, 1885.

Before Mr. Recorder.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-852
VerdictNot Guilty > directed

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852. PATRICK KENEALEY (21) and WILLIAM COOK (18), Robbery with violence on John Waterson, and stealing from his person a watch, his property.

MR. GREENFIELD Prosecuted; MR. FRITH appeared for Kenealey, and


The prosecutor being unable to identify the prisoners, and no property being found on them, the Recorder directed a verdict of


14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-853
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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853. DAVID RILEY (35), Stealing two saws and other tools, the goods of Lewis Longden, and a chisel and other tools, the goods of Albert Evans.

MR. CRANSTOUN Prosecuted.

LEWIS LONGDEN . I am a carpenter, of 2, Oxford Road, Ealing—on 7th August I was in the employment of Mr. Evans, a builder, at Ealing, and left work about 5.30, leaving my tools locked up in a chest in the workshop—next morning at 6 o'clock I found the shop and the chest broken open, and missed two saws, a plough, a square, a gauge, and a chisel, value 30s., my property—I have since identified them—I informed the police.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I know nothing of you—I was with Sergeant Weston when he arrested you—I did not offer him any reward for recovering the tools.

ALBERT EVANS . I am a builder, of Ealing—on 7th August I was at my shop, and left there about 5.30—next morning I found the shop broken open, and two saws, a square, and a chisel, value 15s., stolen—one saw was in the chest, and a saw and a chisel were in a basket.

Cross-examined. I knew nothing of you—I never gave anybody permission to sleep on my buildings—I did not offer Weston any reward.

WALTER GREEN . I am in Mr. Evans's employ—on 7th August I left a plough, a smoothing plain, two chisels, gauge, and other tools, in his shop, and they were stolen before 6 a.m. on the 8th—I also lost a basket, an apron, and some small tools, which have not been recovered.

Cross-examined. I know nothing of you, I never offered a reward to Weston.

HARRY REDMAN . I am assistant to Mr. Ayers, a pawnbroker of Turnham Green—on 8th August about a quarter to 9 o'clock, a turning saw, a rep saw, a plough, and a square, were pledged by a man who gave the name of Lija Longden, of 18, York Terrace, Ealing, for 9s. 6d.—to the best of my belief the prisoner is the man—on 15th August I was called to the police-station and saw some men arranged in a line and picked him out—I asked the man who brought the tools if they were his

own, and he said yes, he had just left a job at Ealing and was going to another on Tuesday morning and he should want them out then; he never came for them—I did not hear the prisoner speak at the police-station—our shop is in High Road, Chiswick, a tramway runs from there to Brentford.

Cross-examined. I have been at Mr. Ayers's about 15 months—I knew none of the other men that were with you—I said that the man who pledged these tools had whiskers, and I believe you have shaved.

WILSON BROOK . I am assistant to Mr. Ayers, of Waterloo Street, Hammersmith—on 8th August about 10 a.m. a man pledged certain goods which Green identified, at my shop, for 7s. 6d.; he gave his name, William Jones, 18, Dalling Road, Hammersmith—I believe the prisoner to be the man—our shop is three and a half miles from Brentford.

Cross-examined. I said at Brentford Police-court "I have not much doubt you are the man."

. HENRY SUTTON . I am assistant to Mr. Thompson, pawnbroker, of 95, King Street East, Hammersmith—I produce certain goods identified by Evans and Green, pledged on 8th August between 10 and 12 a.m. in the name of John Edwards, 18, Dale Street, Chiswick, for 6s. 6d.—the prisoner closely resembles the man, and since I saw him at Brentford I believe firmly that he is the man—I said at the police-court that the man had slight whiskers down the side of his face.

JOHN WESTON (Detective Sergeant X). I received information of this robbery from Mr. Evans on the 8th—I saw Redman on the 11th, when I found where the tools were pledged, and he gave me a description—on Friday the 14th I went to Hammersmith and met the prisoner between there and Chiswick—I thought he was the man, and followed him with the object of finding his address—as he was passing Chiswick Police-station I stopped him and told him I was a police officer and said there were some tools stolen from Ealing last Friday and I should take him in custody on suspicion—he said "I know nothing about the tools, I have not been to Ealing for months"—I took him inside the station, and he said that he was at Ealing yesterday—he was placed with six other men, and Redman identified him—he was then taken to Ealing, and he said he was a carpenter, but had no fixed abode—I found on him two pawntickets relating to carpenters' tools, one in the name of Harris, and the other of Walter Riley—Dalling Road is a false address.

Cross-examined. You offered no resistance—I was watching you for an hour and a half, you were with somebody—I sometimes carry catgut to, bind prisoners' wrists.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I am innocent, it is a case of mistaken identity."

Witnesses for the Defence.

ROBERT POWLEY . I am a carpenter; I have known the prisoner from childhood—on 8th August I was with him from 6 to 8.30 a.m., when he left me to go to his sister's to have some breakfast—I never knew anything against him.

JANE BAKER . I am the prisoner's sister—on 8th August, at 10 minutes to 9 o'clock, he came to my house, 10, Grosvsnor Terrace, Brentford, and stayed there till about 10 o'clock.

Cross-examined. I don't know where he had been that night or morning

—I am sure it was 10 minutes to 9, because my baker comes regularly about a quarter to 9, and I had just closed the door on him when my brother came—I had no one with me—he brought no basket or anything with him—he took his breakfast the moment he came in—I believe when he went out he said he was going to see some man about some work—he came there frequently to breakfast, but that was the last Saturday I saw him—I did not go before the Magistrate, because I did not know he was charged until he wrote to me from the House of Detention; I then went to see him—I got the letter on 26th August—I don't know where he stays generally.

CHARLES LOCK . I am a bricklayer; I have known the prisoner 16 years—he was working for me on the day he was taken in custody—he may have been with me on the night the tools were stolen, but I don't recollect it.

The prisoner in his defence stated that he was not near the premises that morning, being with the witness Powley from 6 to 8 o'clock, and then went to his sister's. He complained that Sergeant Weston had hound his wrists with catgut, though lie had made no resistance.

GUILTY .— Four Months' Hard Labour.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-854
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > no evidence
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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854. WILLIAM BAKER (25) and JOHN BAKER (30), Stealing three tame rabbits, the property of George Adams, William Baker having been convicted of felony in March, 1884, at this Court. WILLIAM BAKER PLEADED GUILTY Eight Months' Hard Labour. MR. BROUN, for the Prosecution, offered no evidence against JOHN BAKER— NOT GUILTY .

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-855
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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855. WILLIAM BICKERS , Embezzling 11s. 8 1/2 d., 6s. 6d., and 2s. 3d., received by him on account of James Hudson and others, his masters.

. MR. BUCKTHORNE Prosecuted; MR. FRITH Defended.

AMELIA HUMMELER . I am chief cashier to Messrs. Hudson; the prisoner was also in their employ—his duty was to take out goods—he was supplied with this book (produced); the money he took one day was supposed to be given to me the next morning—it was his duty to take this book, in which are the names of the persons he has to call upon, out with him in the morning—he had authority to receive money, and it was his duty to enter it in this book opposite the names—if he did not receive it he would enter it in the column "Due or owing;" he would then bring me the money and his book next morning and I would sign it—on 11th July the name of Thompson was in this book, and I see they had on that day 3 lb. of butter at 1s. 6d., and 12 eggs, which comes to 6s. 6d., that is entered as "Not paid"—he has never handed me that money—on July 15th there is nothing entered to Maynard either as credit or cash—on 2nd July there is nothing entered to Miss Roberts, there is only 11s. 8d., which remained due from before—he has not accounted for those sums.

Cross-examined by MR. FRITH. This is the "roundsman's" book—2s. 11d. is marked as being paid, leaving 8d.—I said before the Magistrate "I understand the 8d. is for something he had left over on another occasion"—whether that is so or not I don't know, I simply received the money and signed for what I received—the 8d. is in the clerk's writing, I am sure that is not included in the 2s. 11d.—he paid 3s. 7d.; it only amounted to 2s. 11d., as 8d. had been omitted on a previous occasion, and

there is in the margin "left 8d.," 2s. 11d. being received from a customer and 8d. remained on credit—the 8d. was left unpaid, due to the firm by the customer—Miss Clarke is the clerk—the different items and who paid them would be taken from the prisoner's book—my book always balanced—I do not remember asking the prisoner once how it was that I was short—I never asked one of them—a roundsman named Mitchell drives the "O" cart—I did not speak to him about being 1l. short in my takings—the men have to find change every morning—I don't know it the men make a bad debt they are responsible; I don't know anything about their having to pay for watering their horses—the man keeps this book, and enters the goods he delivers at the houses and the money he receives.

Re-examined. The prisoner had 1l. 5s. a week salary, and commission on what he sold—these two sums of June 10th and 17th he had not paid over next morning, and it was the duty of all roundsmen to do that—he paid them afterwards.

SOPHIA CLARKE . I am clerk to Messrs. Hudson—the prisoner was in their employ—his duty, with regard to the roundsman's book, was to enter money paid to him in it, and the goods which were sold, and I entered it into the ledgers—these sums were entered as due and owing.

Cross-examined. Inspectors are sent round with these men to explain as far as they possibly can what their business is—they have to give a guarantee from the Guarantee Society, and they have to pay their boy out of this salary and commission—I believe they have to insure their horse and cart against accidents—I don't know whether anything is allowed them for watering their horses—as far as I know they have to pay it out of their own pocket—if there were things found short he would have to pay for them—if he made a bad debt I don't think he would have to pay it—if he gave credit and the customer did not pay, I think he would be liable.

Re-examined. It was his duty only to call on the persons whose names were in that book; to mark in it whether he received the amounts or not, and account to me for what he received—if he received the money he would have to receipt the customer's book—the customer keeps that.

HARRIET BAYLEY . I am in the service of Miss Thompson, of Kensington—the prisoner has been in the habit of calling there twice a week to sell goods from his cart, and on every occasion I have paid him the money—on 11th July he called and delivered 3 lb. of butter at 1s. 6d. and 2s. worth of eggs, which came to 6s. 6d. altogether—I paid him a half-sovereign, and he gave me 3s. 6d. change—I can fix that date on my memory—I got no receipt.

JANE GOBLE . I am cook to Mrs. Maynard, of 26, Ovington Square, Brompton—she has been in the habit of purchasing goods from Hudson's—the sums which were paid were entered in this book (produced) and signed by the prisoner—on 15th July I paid him 2s. 3d.—I gave him this book, and he took it away and brought it back signed.

ALICE YOUNG . I live at 67, Merstham Road, Sittingbourne—I was formerly in the service of Miss Roberts, of 6, Priory Park, Kilburn-the prisoner used to call there with goods, and I purchased them—on 2nd July I paid him 11s. 8 1/2 d.—this in his signature for it in our book.

MR. FRITH requested that the prisoner might be allowed to make his own

defence, which he did, and stated that he had not only to pay his guarantee money, but also to employ a boy, and to pay for watering his horse, and to be responsible for bad debts; that he had not simply to wait on ledger customers, but had to hawk butter from house to house, and that his commission was kept back so as to have it in hand as a set-off against bad debts or leaving suddenly; that he had to make his entries while his horse was in motion, and he might have put an amount in the wrong column, but must have entered it to somebody, as if he had not done so the weights and quantities in his cart would not have tallied with his account; that he took 30l. and 40l. a day, and on one occasion he had 30s. and another time 2l. or, and could not find out who paid it to him, and the money was brought forward in his book as a balance each time.


14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-856
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

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856. WILLIAM BICKER was again indicted for embezzling 4d., 11d., and 3s. of his said masters.

MR. BUCKTHORNE offered no evidence.


14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-857
VerdictsGuilty > unknown; Guilty > with recommendation
SentencesImprisonment > hard labour; Miscellaneous

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857. MARK ELIAS BUCKS (21), Stealing four pieces of Italian cloth, received by him on account of Louis John Abrahams, his master, and ROBERT FRANCE (65), receiving the same, well knowing it to have been stolen.

MR. GRAIN Prosecuted; MR. GOODYEAR defended Bucks, and MR. KISCH

defended France.

LOUIS TUDOR ABRAHAMS . I am a woollen merchant—the prisoner Bucks has been with me about eight years—his duty was to buy and sell goods and to keep stock and give orders to travellers—when we happened to be out of a particular article it was his duty to replenish it, and keep the stock up to the amount—he did that of his own accord—he had no authority to sell goods to any customers without having them entered in my books—in March I was dealing with Cawthra and Co., and bad done for some time—this is the copy of an invoice which I received from Cawthra and Co. for 15l. 1s. 9d.—I have paid that amount, but I have never received the goods—this is the prisoner's signature (produced) for those goods on 19th March—I never saw that till after this inquiry. (Two invoices were here put in; one for four pieces of goods, 15l. 1s. 9d; the other was: "March 25th, 1885. Mr. France, bought of M. E. Bucks.") Cannon Street, 213 Italians at 1s. 2d., 12l. 8s. 6d. Paid, M. E. Bucks.") The receiving note has Buck's signature, and the invoice has been debited to our account. (Another invoice was put in for goods told to Mr. France for 14l. 9s. 9d.) He had no authority to send these goods to France—none of these goods are debited in my books to him—I have known France as a customer since August, 1881—in some instances when he has bought goods direct from my house, he has bought them through Bucks—he knew Bucks and his position in the firm—they would be entered up in the books, and would be delivered from my warehouse—I am not in the habit of buying goods wholesale, and delivering them direct to my customers; they are invariably brought to the warehouse first—on 1st August I went to Mr. France's with Detective Wright and asked him if he would be kind enough to show me the invoices of the goods he had bought of me—he said "Yes; all I owe you is 24l."—I said "Have you not bought any other goods of us?"—he produced these two invoices and said "No, only these; I have paid you for what you have sent me in

statements"—I said "You have bought goods of Bucks"—he said "Yes, I have had a couple of transactions with him"—I said "I think it is right to tell you, before we go any further, that we have had occasion to give Bucks in custody for dishonesty, and this gentleman here is a detective officer, you have had more than two transactions with Bucks"—he said "No, I don't recollect that I have had any others"—I said "Yes, you bought four pieces of Italian on July 2nd of him"—he said "No, I didn't buy four pieces, I think I bought one"—I said "No, you bought four"—he said "It might be two, but not four"—he then looked on the file and found an invoice for four pieces of Italian on July 2nd for 9l.—that is the one without a receipt stamp, with France's heading scratched out—I said "You see we are right; we did not come up here on any wild goose chase; you have been buying goods of him for the last 18 months"—he produced two other invoices; one for six rolls of satin and six pieces of canvas—I said "Yes, you have got them here," and put my hands upon them—he said "Yes, those are the goods," and asked me not to give him in custody—he said "I have given a very good price for the goods"—"Well," I said, "I won't enter into that with you; you knew Bucks was in our employ"—I asked if Bucks had sold him these goods by sample—he said no, Bucks had sent them up and settled for the price afterwards—the detective was there all the time—he said I might take the whole shop, but not to take him in custody—I told him I could not hold out any promise; I should have to consult my partner—I did not give him in custody then—Bucks was brought up at Guildhall and then France was given in custody.

Cross-examined by MR. WATBURTON. Bucks, I thought, until recently had conducted himself to my satisfaction; but not up till now, because he has been carrying this on for two years—I was ignorant of it—last September he collected an account of 14l., or very nearly, and I never made any charge against him—I was not aware that he did business on his own account—some portion of my business is done over the counter—I live in Middlesex Street, the old Petticoat Lane—I have been accustomed through Bucks's instructions to send goods to France's.

Cross-examined by MR. KISCH. Hundreds of other persons deal in Italian cloth—it would be a breach of Bucks's duty to purchase goods in his spare time, not for us, and sell them again, it would have been dishonest—his hours were from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. and he was paid by salary—France has been a woollen-draper and trimming seller in the Harrow Road for some years; that is a considerable distance from me—I said nothing at the police-court about the conversation which I had with him, I have not mentioned it till to-day—when I went there on 1st August my property was exposed to view, and I recognised it at once—he did not expect to see me—I asked him about the transactions, and he told me about it and referred me to the receipts on his file, showing me the transactions and what he paid—it frequently happens in our trade that persons buy bankrupt stock at a great sacrifice, 15l. worth would be sold for 12l.—I know that France attended on subpoena to give his evidence, and he was taken outside the Court and arrested; that was the way he was caught—there is a receipt in every case for the goods which he paid for—he told me that he is 64 years of age.

Re-examined. These were not a bankrupt's stock, they were all new goods.

WILLIAM SABINE . I was appointed agent for Cawthra and Co. of Bradford in February this year—their offices are at Lawrence Pountney Lane, City—I have known Bucks some time as a buyer for Josephs and Co—on 19th March Bucks came to me and purchased four pieces of Italian cloth, value 15l. 1s. 9d, and they were entered up in the books to Josephs and Co. and charged to them in due course and they have been paid for—the goods were sent to France's of Harrow Road through Johnson the carrier, by Bucks's direction—on 26th May I sold to Bucks in the same way four pieces amounting to 15l. 6s. 9d., they were entered to Joseph and Co. and sent to France—on 2nd July four pieces of Italian cloth value 14l. 9s. 9d. were purchased by Bucks in the same way—he took them away from the warehouse in a cab; they were invoiced to Joseph and Co. and charged to their account—I have seen the goods produced by the police at Guildhall—these were all new goods from time to time, they were sold at manufacturers' prices.

Cross-examined by MR. WARBURTON. Bucks made no attempt to pay us for them, they were bought for Josephs—the mere fact of Bucks's coming in would make us presume they were for Josephs—Bucks was repeatedly at our place—I have never heard of his trading on his own account.

Cross-examined by MR. KISCH. I know that it has been done—there is only one profit on the goods when they are made, but of course there is a profit on the material before we have it—they were sent to France's by carrier in the usual way, packed in the usual way.

Re-examined. Besides the three items which I have given there are two others in which Bucks has purchased articles which have been entered to Josephs and sent on to. France's direct.

MR. SKILTON. I was assistant to the prisoner France nearly nine months, he kept a tailor's trimming shop—I have known Bucks about 18 months; during that time I have seen him at France's shop two or three times a month—France only kept a cash-book in which he put down the day's takings. he keeps the bills and receipts—during the 18 months France has only had three or four transactions with Messrs. Josephs and Co. direct, but goods have been delivered from Bucks's during that time about 10 times, and in each case I have seen payments made by France to Bucks direct—once I went and paid the bill and once or twice France went; I only know one occasion in which France paid Bucks any money on account of Josephs and Co.—these two delivery sheets of March 19th and May 26th, No. 13 on one and 2 on the other, were signed by me on for those goods—this delivery sheet at No. 28 is signed by France's daughter—these three lots of goods were received on the premises to my knowledge, most of them were taken away by Detective Wright on 8th August—two pieces were sold to a man named Collingford, who does business in the tailor's trimming line, he goes about the country hawking with a horse and trap.

Cross-examined by MR. KISCH. The property was in the middle of the shop in front of the counter—these two pieces formed an insignificant portion of it—persons in that position do trade to a small extent with their own money—I was present once when Bucks brought some Italians in a cab—France said he did not want them—Bucks pressed him to buy them, and he did so—this business has been established 14 year, in Harrow Road.

WILLIAM WRIGHT (City Detective). On 6th August I received a warrant from Guildhall for Bucks's arrest, and on the 7th I saw him at Margate at 62, King Street—I told him I was a City police officer, and held a warrant for his arrest; I read the warrant to him—he said, "This is not a matter for the Court, let it stand over until I come back from my holidays"—I said, "You will have to come back with me"—he said, "No, I will not come back with you to-night"—I said, "You will have to go now if we can get a train"—I took him to the Town Hall, and brought him to London next morning, and he was charged—on the 8th I went with Mr. Abrahams to France's house in Harrow Road—Mr. Abrahams asked him if he would show him the invoices of the things he had bought of his firm, and told him who I was—I then asked him to look through his file and show me all the invoices he had relating to Bucks—he looked and handed me one for 9l. and one not receipted on plain paper—I asked him to look carefully through his file, as he had had more than a dozen transactions, and it was a very serious matter—he looked through, and handed me this third invoice, and said he had no more, and he had had no further transactions with Bucks—I said, "These are simply cash receipts for the goods made here, not receipts; you bought these goods 30 or 40 per cent, below cost price, you must have known they were stolen," and asked Mr. Abrahams to give him in custody—he said he would consult his partner—I said that he ought to give him in custody—five rolls of canvas and three rolls of Italian cloth and three pieces, were selected and put on the counter, and we brought them away and told him we would call again on Monday at 3 p.m.—we went again on Monday with Mr. Abrahams and he was not there, and again on Wednesday and he was not there, and on Thursday I left a subpoena for his attendance at Guildhall on the hearing against Bucks, and he attended—I saw the witness Skelton on each of these occasions—the whole of the evidence was gone into against Bucks, and then France was given into my custody—I took him to the Old Jewry and charged him, and brought him up at Guildhall for committal—I commenced to search him; I asked him what property he had about him, and he pulled out of his pocket these five papers and handed them to me. (These were receipts for 2l. 19s. 6d., 3l. 3s., 2l. 5s. 8d., and other sums, for goods bought of Bucks.) I told him he would be charged with feloniously receiving the whole of the property from Bucks on the dates named in the invoices—he said. "I did not know they were stolen."

Cross-examined by MR. WARBURTON. When I arrested Bucks he said, "With regard to the six pieces of canvas, I should have paid for them when I returned; I called at Mr. Skelton's office on Saturday morning before I came to Margate, but he was out."

Cross-examined by MR. KISCH. He brought these five documents with him knowing he was going to the police-court.

GUILTY . The Jury recommended France to mercy. FRANCE* then PLEADED GUILTY to a conviction of felony at the Mansion House in December, 1880.— Eighteen Months' Hard Labour each, and France to pay the costs of the prosecution.

THIRD COURT.—Monday, September 21st, 1885.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-858
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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858. JOHN HARRIGAN (25) PLEADED GUILTY ** to stealing a watch from the person of Michael Lutrari; also to a conviction of felony at Westminster in August, 1878, in the name of John Hart.— Five Years' Penal Servitude. And

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-859
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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859. WILLIAM HOPE (19) to stealing three watches and 17s., the goods and money of Samuel Matthews, and burglariously breaking out of his dwelling-house.— Twelve Months' Hard Labour. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-860
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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860. THOMAS MILES (23), Stealing six jackets and other goods, the property of Alphonse Levy.

MR. HUGGINS Prosecuted.

WILLIAM BARTLETT . I am in the employ of Alphonse Levy, who has a mantle warehouse at Queen Victoria Street—on 4th September I did up a parcel containing six fur-lined dolmans, three ladies' fancy jackets, 2 fur capes, one jersey, and three boxes containing fur muffs, which I had to take to 125, Westminster Bridge Road—I saw the prisoner and another man in a trap—then the other man drove up in the trap alone, spoke to me, and I got into it with him and went to the bottom of Queen Victoria Street, by the Barnard Castle public-house—there I minded the pony while the man went up St. Andrew's Hill—he returned with the prisoner and asked me to go with the prisoner to fetch a box, as he was lame—I went, leaving the parcel in the trap, as I could not carry both it and the box—I went as far as Newgate Street with the prisoner; he could not tell me where he was going to fetch the box from, he said he knew nothing of the other man—I said "Where are you going to fetch the box from?"—he said "Just up here"—we were going up Warwick Lane then—I said "I cannot go any farther, I must go back and see after my goods, or else I must see a policeman—he came back with me a little way and then said "Let us go back and fetch the box"—I said "I must go and see after the goods"—I met a gentleman in Ave Maria Lane, I said to him in the prisoner's hearing "Is there a policeman near?"—he said he could not see a policeman, but he would accompany us back till he could see one—when we got back the trap was gone—the gentleman said to the prisoner "Go and look for the trap"—he said he would; we went as far as the foot of Black friars Bridge and saw nothing of it, and then the prisoner asked a policeman to go round to the police-station with him—when he got there he put his foot on the door step and turned and ran away—I, the gentleman, and others chased him through New Bridge Street into Bride Lane, when Campin tripped him up and I gave him in custody—he made a desperate struggle to get away—in Warwick Street, when we came back looking for the horse and cart, the prisoner went in a building and said "This it one of his shops"—I said "Never mind the shops, I want to know about the goods."

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I believe you to be one of the men I first saw in the trap.

Re-examined. The prisoner is the man I went with, because I did not lose sight of him.

JAMES CAMPIN . I am a compositor, of St. Andrew's Place, Lambeth—about 7 o'clock on 4th September I was coming along New Bridge Street;

I heard a cry of stop thief and saw the prisoner running, with people after him—I put my leg in front of him, he tumbled over, and was taken—we held him till a constable came up.

THOMAS DUNDAS . I am a master carman—on 4th September, about 11 a.m., the prisoner and the other man came to my house, and my missus sent them to me at the stable, and they hired a light cart and pony—I knew the other man before, not the prisoner—the pony and cart were taken into the stable that night about 9.30; the pony was white with sweat.

HENRY COGGER (City Policeman 519). On 4th September I heard cries of "Police" from the back of the police-station, in Bride Lane, and I saw the prisoner held by the prosecutor and Campin—I took him to the station, where he gave the name of Miles, and afterwards said it was Wild—he said nothing when the charge was read over to him, nor when I arrested him.

The prisoner in his defence stated that the other man had engaged him to take the box, and that he was innocent.

GUILTY . He then PLEADED GUILTY to a conviction in January, 1881, in the name of Thomas Wiles.— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

For other cases tried this day in this Court see Essex, Kent, and Surrey Cases.

NEW COURT.—Tuesday, September 22nd, 1885.

Before Mr. Recorder.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-861
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

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861. JOSEPH FRANCIS SAVILLE, alias SAMUEL , was indicted for wilful and corrupt perjury, upon which MR. BESLEY, for the prosecution, offered no evidence.


14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-862
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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862. CHARLES JACKSON (30) and HENRY JACKSON (20), Robbery with violence on Charles Alexander, and stealing 10l., his money.

MR. PURCELL Prosecuted; MR. BURNIE Defended.

WILLIAM ELWOOD . I live at 8, Westbourne Road, Islington—on 27th July, about 7.15 p.m., I was in Westbourne Road, and saw Mr. Alexander assaulted by five men on the steps of a house—the prisoners are two of them—Charles Jackson pulled him down the steps on to the ground—they both made off, and he followed them to a cart—Henry Jackson struck him on his face and got into the cart, and Charles Jackson followed it, hanging on to it with his hands—Mr. Alexander also hung on to the back of the cart, and when they got to Eton Road Charles Jackson pulled him off the back of the cart, and held him there till the cart went away, and then went away himself.

Cross-examined. There were 30 or 40 people there; they were not struggling together, only looking on—I did not hear or see any money drop—I had seen the prisoner Charles before, but not Henry.

CHARLES ALEXANDER EDWARDS (A black). That is my proper name, but for shortness they call me Alexander—on July 5th, about 7.15, I was passing the Arundel Hotel—live men were standing outside in their shirt sleeves, and the prisoner Henry said "You are there, are you, you black bastard"—I said "What the h—you want to insult me for"—he

repeated it—I went into the public-house, and he followed me, and began chaffing—I said "What do you want to insult me for, I cannot help being black?"—he said "Are you going to treat us?"—I said "Yes," and I treated him—the other prisoner was in the four-ale side—I watched my opportunity, and slipped out at the side door to get away—as soon as I was out of the house I got a blow from Henry, and down I was like a cock—I then received one or two lively kicks—I had a black ebony stick, and I broke it the first time about his back, and ran up somebody's steps and beckoned to a girl to open the door, but they came up, and said "Hit the b—, kill him"—they took me by the back of my collar, dragged me down the stairs, and the big one kicked me; here is the hole in my head now, and then they jumped on me—they hurt me, and I never could get my finger straight since—as they pulled me down the steps I heard my money scatter about—I had 16l. or 17l. in gold, and I missed 10l. and one or two shillings—Charles Jackson picked some up, but I cannot say whether it was a sovereign or a penny—when I was lying on the ground bleeding, they ran back to the hotel, and Charles got into a cart, and Henry walked behind—I laid hold of the cart, and said "You b—, you will have to kill me before I let go," and Henry and his companion battered my face to make me let go—the horse was galloping, and Henry said "You won't let go, you black b—," and drove me down by the back of my head, and threw me down, and put his foot on me, and I was done for then—they got away.

Cross-examined. I signed my deposition "Charles Alexander"—I go to Croydon sometimes—I do not know that my nick name there is Samuel—I am a gentleman, because I was bred and born one—I can produce my certificate—I am the son of an Indian king—I am of no profession—I used to do a lot in racing—I am on bail in an affiliation case—that was before I was married—a warrant was issued against me for non-payment of arrears; that is postponed till to-morrow—I have had a misfortune since this case—I was charged at Worship Street—it was not false cheques—it was a case of overdrawing, but I did not write the cheque; my wife did—I did not know the witness Carter before this case—they could not charge me with a fraudulent cheque, as I did not write it—I was rather obstreperous, and the policeman charged me with striking him—I was charged with obtaining money by false pretences, but was discharged—five persons struck me on this occasion—one or two are knocking about the Court now, and they say they will murder me.

Re-examined. My wife is entitled to several thousand pounds—the money is paid into Child's Bank, and she is entitled to draw for it—these charges were made for drafts when the money had not been paid in—there is 17,000l. there.

JAMES CARTER I am a stationer, of 4, Chatterton Road, South Hornsey—on July 5th, at 6.45, I was in Westbourne Road, and saw Mr. Alexander outside a public-house, and the prisoners were fighting him—during the scuffle one of them struck him, and he took a black ebony stick, and broke it across Charles Jackson's back—three or four, of them threw him down and the prisoners helped—he got up and ran to the nearest door up, three or four steps, but the eldest Jackson took him and pulled him down, and he came on the back of his head in the Road—I neard money fall, and every one got some—the eldest prisoner picked up some—the prisoner Henry and two others got into a cart, and

Mr. Alexander and the other prisoner went after the cart—Mr. Alexander was very much knocked about.

Cross-examined. I went up to the crowd—I don't know whether I saw Mr. Alfred Keats there.

CHARLES BERRY (Detective Y). On 29th July I took Charles Jackson at the Arundel public-house—I said I shall take you for assaulting and robbing a gentleman in the Westbourne Road—he said "Very well, Sir; I will go quietly; I did not rob him; the other man was a stranger to me"—the other man was taken next day—I don't know what he said—the policeman who took him is ill in bed.

Witness for the Defence.

ALFRED KEATS . I am a carpenter and joiner, of 84, Westbourne Road—on July 27th I saw the prosecutor up some steps in Westbourne Road rowing with Henry Jackson—they were bleeding from their faces as if from fighting—the younger prisoner caught hold of the prosecutor's collar, pulled him down, and he fell—at that time Charles Jackson was at the edge of the crowd—there were lots of people between Charles and Henry—I was two or three yards off—the two prisoners made towards a cart—the younger prisoner got into it and the other stood behind—the prosecutor followed, running behind the cart—the prisoner Charles ran behind too, or outside of it—when the prosecutor fell no coin of any description fell from his pockets—Charles Jackson was then on the outer edge of the crowd.

Cross-examined. I did not see Carter or Mr. Elwood there, but several people were looking on, mostly children—I was two or three yards from the steps—two or three people were between me who might have been Carter or Elwood—I saw no coins or heard none—the man in the cart did not strike Mr. Alexander—I did not see him touch him—I wish to say that I saw the prosecutor pull out a revolver last Friday.

GUILTY .— Nine Months' Hard Labour each.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-863
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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863. MOSES LEVY (56), Stealing 78 waistcoats of Edwin Seamark.

MR. BRIXHOLM Prosecuted; MR. GEOGHEGAN Defended.

JOHN HALL . I am porter to Mr. Edwin Seamark, a white waistcoat maker—I live at 112, East Street, Stepney—on 1st June I was entrusted with some parcels to deliver them to Wells Street—one of them contained gentlemen's waistcoats—I went into Wells Street to deliver a parcel, and when I came out I missed this parcel from the trunk—this (produced) is one of the waistcoats.

EDWIN SEAMARK . I am a white waistcoat maker, of Church Street, Stoke Newington—on 1st June I entrusted Hall with some waistcoats to deliver at Wells Street—this is one of them—the whole parcel was worth 20l.—I was at this Court in June when four men named Stegman, Green, Wood, and Moon were convicted of stealing these waistcoats—Moon and Stegman pleaded guilty. (See page 381).

Cross-examined. These are summer fancy waistcoats—they are sold retail from 5s. to 7s. each—you can buy them wholesale at about 3s. 9d. each—I can identify this waistcoat by my private mark.

JOHN JONES (City Detective). On 1st June I followed Stegman and Moon—I saw them go to a cart—Moon stood at the side of it, caught hold of the parcel, and went away—I afterwards arrested Stegman with two other men—Green, Wood, Moon, and Stegman were tried here in

June, two pleaded guilty, and the two others were found guilty—Stegman lives at 12, Windsor Street.

SAMUEL MARTIN . I am a fish porter, and live at 3, New Street, New Road, Whitechapel—I am engaged to the prisoner's daughter—he lives at 7, Bedford Street, Commercial Road—on 1st June, between 7 and 8 p.m., I saw the prisoner at his house—he said he was going on an errand, and asked me to go with him—I went as far as Middlesex Street with him—he then told me he had bought some goods, and asked me if I would go for them—he said "Go to 12, Windsor Street, where you will see a young man, ask him to give you a parcel which I was speaking about this afternoon to him, and give him 30s., and bring the parcel up to Isaacs's place; there you will meet me"—I went to 12, Windsor Street, and saw Moon standing at the door—I asked him to give me a parcel—I gave 0him 30s., and took the parcel to Isaacs's place—Isaacs was there and a servant—he and the prisoner opened it—it contained these waistcoats—I only stopped there two or three minutes and then went away—two or three days after this he asked me if I would go and get 30s. from Isaacs that was left for the balance of the goods—I went but he was out, and while I was waiting there I was arrested—I was brought up before a Magistrate and discharged.

Cross-examined. Moon said that Levy had bought the goods of him, but had not the money, as he had laid it all out in stock that morning—deals like this take place in the open street, in Petticoat Lane—I am not much of a judge of waistcoats; the prisoner would be—I have known him five years.

WOOLF ISAACS . I am a general dealer, of 3, North Block—on 1st June the prisoner brought a sample of a vest similar to this, and asked if I could sell them for him—I said "I don't know, I will try"—he said he had bought them in the market, or somewhere; I don't remember the words; he did not say from whom—he said they cost him 50s., and said "Sell them, and do what you can"—I showed them to Mr. Aaron—he said "You can buy them if they are worth the money; I can get them for 18s."—I went back to the prisoner and told him I could sell them for 18s. a dozen, and he said "Very well, buy them"—he sent for them—Martin carried them and the prisoner followed him in—I paid him something like 3l., I forget what it was; I owed him a balance of 30s., and I was to receive something for selling them—I sold them to Aaron for 5l. 8s., and he gave me 17s. or 18s. for myself for selling them.

Cross-examined. The prisoner left it to my discretion what price I should sell them at; the more I sold them for the higher my commission—Mr. Aaron is a wholesale draper in Cooper Street, Houndsditch; he is a fair judge of these kind of things—I have known the prisoner all my life; he keeps a stall and sells clothes to the 'bus men—these waistcoats would not be worth 6d. each at the present time, because people won't buy them; the season has dropped for them.

ROBERT SAGAR (City Detective). On 4th June I went to 123, Cutler Street—Mr. Aaron handed me 37 vests—I was present at the trial when four men were convicted of stealing them—the prisoner lives at 7, Bedford Street, Commercial Road—I went there several times after the others were in custody, but never could find him there—he went away and could not be found—the case of Moon and others was reported in the papers.

BURGE (City Policeman 899). On 1st August, about 7 p.m., I saw the prisoner in the Cock and Hoop yard, Houndsditch—I said "I shall arrest you, as you are wanted on a warrant for buying about six dozen waistcoats from a man named Moon, who has been convicted with others of stealing the same, you well knowing them to be stolen"—he said "Waistcoats from a man named Moon; yes, that is right"—I told him I should take him to the station—he said "I know nothing about their being stolen."

Cross-examined. There is no warrant to arrest Isaacs—I arrested the prisoner in Cock and Hoop yard, about 300 yards from the market, sitting on a chair outside one of his relation's doors.

The prisoner received a good character.


14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-864
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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864. GEORGE ROBINSON (60), Unlawfully obtaining 2l. 10s. by false pretences from Henry Cannon, with intent to defraud.

MR. BROUN Prosecuted.

THOMAS HENRY CANNON . I keep the Golden Lion, Dean Street, Soho—on 23rd June the prisoner came there and gave me this cheque and said "Will you change it for me?"—he was in the bar parlour; a general conversation was going on—I said "Is it all right?"—he said "Yes"—I gave him the money—I paid it away to my tobacconist, and it came back marked "Account closed"—I parted with my money believing him to be a respectable man, having been introduced to me by a customer—the prisoner called a few days afterwards and said "For God's sake don't part with that cheque, I find that my account is wrong; I shall have some money in a few days, and I will come and pay you"—I said "It is too late; I have paid it away." (The cheque was on the Woraster City and County Bank, drawn by George Deal Robinson for 2l. 10s., dated June 23rd, marked "Account closed.")

RICHARD BRAITHWAITE . I am clerk to the Birmingham Branch of the Worcester City and County Bank—this cheque was presented there on 30th June, and I wrote on it "Account closed on 5th November, 1877"—on that day I saw the prisoner and gave him this other cheque for 3s. 3d., payable to "Self"—that was the balance of his account.

THOMAS BOWDEN . On 4th August I saw the prisoner at 15, Rochester Terrace, Camden Town—I told him the charge—he said "All right, you need not read it; it is strange when you want money you cannot get it; I did not know it, or I should not have let it come to this"—at the station he said Mr. Cannon had been a friend to him, or he should not have let him have it.

The prisoner, in his statement before the Magistrate and in his defence, stated that he had no more intention to defraud than a child unborn; that he intended to pay the money back, and drew the cheque on the understanding that it was not to be presented, and that he expected money on the following Monday.

THOMAS HENRY CANNON (Re-examined). He did not ask me to hold it over at the time he got the money; he did afterwards.

GUILTY. Strongly recommended to mercy by the Jury and the prosecutor. — Nine Days' Imprisonment.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-865
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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865. JOHN BYGRAVE (16) and JAMES ROBERTSON (18), Burglary in the dwelling-house of Henry Wooster, and stealing six boxes of dead fish, his property.

MR. PARKES Prosecuted.

WILLIAM ABRAHAMS . I am a costermonger, of 3, Lisson Street, Hoxton—previous to June 23rd I worked for Mr. Wooster, of 207, Oxford Street, and was entrusted with the key of his premises—I knew the prisoners, and they knew I had the key—about 10 days before this Bygrave said, "Halloa, Bill, I hear you have got the key of Mr. Wooeter's door; if you can get some fish I can sell it for you; if you give us the key we can get in and get some fish"—I said, "I have been at work at Mr. Wooster's a long time, night and day, and never done such a thing," but I did it, and the policeman caught me—I went with Bygrave and undone the door about 2.30 a.m., and we both went in and got some fish—I pleaded guilty at this Court (See p. 431), and was let out on recognisances to come up when called upon—we met Robertson as we went to the house, and he helped us with the fish on to a barrow, after I had unlocked the door and gone in and got out the fish—a policeman then came.

Cross-examined by Bygrave. I did not ask you if you wanted to earn 2s.—I could not see the constable because I was inside bolting up—my brother Sam did not lead me into it.

WILLIAM—(Policeman G 400). On June 27th I was on duty, and about 2.30 I was coming up Hoxton Road, and saw the two prisoners come out at Mr. Wooster's side door, and almost immediately after Abrahams came out and got hold of the handles of the barrow, upon which were six boxes of fish—seeing me he ran away; I ran after him, and shouted "Stop thief," and he was caught by a policeman and taken to the station and charged—the two prisoners ran away, but I recognise them—I could not find who his accomplice was until Abrahams told me—on 12th August I arrested Bygrave in bed at 33, Conroy Street—he said, "It is the first time, I never done such a thing before"—while making inquiries about Bygrave at Commercial Street I saw in a paper Anderson's name, 67, Ivy Lane—I went there and saw Robertson, and told him I should charge him with burglary at Mr. Wooster's—he said, "You have made a mistake, it is not me"—this was the side door into Mr. Wooster's shop; the barrow was standing opposite it—there is a yard at the side of this house—I am sure it was not the side gate, it was the side door.

Cross-examined by Robertson. I can only swear to you by your clothes, I did not see your face—I saw you next on 16th August—I do not swear to you now—I could see your clothes at 2 a.m., it was getting light—you had clothes similar to what you have on now.

HENRY WOOSTER . I am a fish dealer—I lost about 3l. worth of fish on 26th June out of my shop—Abrahams was in my service; his father dries all my fish—up to this time I had beon satisfied with Abrahams—I do not know the prisoners.

Bygrave's Defence. I assure you I did not lead him into it. It is the first time I have ever been in such a place.

Robertson's Defence. I know nothing about the robbery.

GUILTY .— Three Months' Hard Labour each.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-866
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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866. HENRI PARAN (32) PLEADED GUILTY to two indictments for embezzling 7l. 0s. 4d. on 16th June, and on 2nd, 8th, and 11th July, 3l. 5s. 5d., 27s., and 35s., of Joseph Kingsbury Simson, his master.— Nine Months' Hard Labour.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-867
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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867. DANIEL COHEN (26), Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of Jacob Schlosberg, with intent to steal.

MR. DILL Prosecuted.

JACOB SCHLOSBERG (Interpreted). I live at 2, Booth Street Buildings—on September 4th, about 3 a.m., I heard my window open, and said to my wife, "The window has been opened, and there is a thief there"—I got up, stood behind a curtain, and saw the prisoner opening the window—he put his hand in, and then crawled in with half his body, got on his knees on a table next the window, and began to take down my wife's wearing apparel—my wife screamed, and he then got out at the window again and ran away—I ran after him in my shirt, caught him in the third yard, and gave him in custody.

CHARLES FARMER (Policeman S 392). On 3rd September, about 4 a.m., I was on duty in Booth Street, and heard cries of "Thief"—I went to Booth Buildings, and saw the prisoner in Schlosberg's custody—I handed him to another constable, and went to the back of the house—the window was about half open; the catch was forced up—I told the prisoner the charge—he said, "I have no home, I only went there to sleep"—I took him to the station—the window is on the ground floor at the back.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "The policeman misunderstood me; I told him I went to sleep with a friend, believing that that friend lived in the house."

He repeated the same in his defence.

MR. SHAFSON. I was sleeping in Schlosberg's house that night—I have never seen the prisoner, but I saw him at the window.

GUILTY . He then PLEADED GUILTY to a conviction at Worship Street in February, 1885, in the name of Simon Cohen.— Nine Months' Hard Labour.

NEW COURT.—Wednesday, September 23rd, 1885.

Before Mr. Recorder.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-868
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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868. HARRY HANCOCK (35) PLEADED GUILTY to feloniously marrying Jeanette Florence Watts, his wife being alive.— Two Months' Hard Labour.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-869
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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869. FERDINAND DICK BUTLER (48), Feloniously forging and uttering an endorsement on an order for 12l. 10s., with intent to defraud

MESSRS. POLEY and DUKE Prosecuted.

PETER THOMAS JOHNSON . I am a wholesale stationer, of Gough Square, in partnership with William Johnson—the prisoner entered our service last April, and signed this agreement (produced)—his duties were to travel round the South Coast, take orders, collect money, and send it up—he was to have 10 percent. on all orders, and we were to send him 10l. a week, which was sent him—this letter is his writing. (This contained the following postscript: "Your favour of the 16th to hand; herewith enclosed 10l.;" and the letter, dated Eastbourne, July 19th, stated, "Your favour of the 18th reached me 10l. at Tunbridge Wells")—early in August he came to the office and said he was sorry he had

collected some money for us which he could not account for; his affairs were in a muddle, and he did not know what he had been doing for the last two weeks—he gave me this account (produced)—I did nothing then, but eventually had him arrested—he had no authority to sign the name of our firm or endorse cheques—this cheque drawn by Mr. Kay in our favour is payable to order, and not crossed—the endorsement William Thomson and Sons is in the prisoner's writing.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I said at the Mansion House that it was your writing to the best of my belief, but I have since compared it with your letters, and I am certain of it—we have not broken our agreement with you—when we could not get a weekly account from you we had it monthly—the agreement was broken by you—you have charged yourself with 1l. 6s. in July, and here is a receipt, Keogh, 12l. 10s.—I had an interview with you at your office, and made certain statements—you sent us part of the money, and failed to account for the rest—there was no agreement by which you were to receive 12l. a week—your salary was 1l. a month, but that was part of your commission put down as salary so as to make you a servant—no allowance has been made to you for collecting accounts, as it was part of your duty—your commission and salary were paid up to July 25th—we could not send you any more as you did not give your next address—we sent you 10l. to Haxell's Hotel, Dover, on July 25th—the salary of 1l. a month was included in the 10l. a week—no notice in writing has been given you—there is nothing due to you—I went to Dover and got the remittance back with the samples you left in pawn there—your commission account has been made up—you were not absolutely paid for your work in London, but it was placed to your credit; the account is not here—you said at the police office "Is there any way of settling this?"—you did not say "Do you know what this means?" nor did you say "What?" nor did you say "Murder," nor did I say "I mean murder."

Re-examined. The prisoner delivered this account to us of the amounts he received in July—this F. D. Butler is in his writing—it is "By cheque 12l. 10s., F. D. Butler, for W. Johnson and Sons"—that is the receipt for the cheque we are inquiring into—I only saw the prisoner write once, but I corresponded with him daily, and became well acquainted with his writing.

HENRY WILLIAM KEAY . I am a bookseller, of Terminus Road, Eastbourne—I owed the prosecutors 10l. 18s. 2d., and on 11th July, 1885, the prisoner called—I saw him then for the first time—I gave him this cheque (produced) for 12l. 10s., payable to the firm's order—he wrote this receipt in my ledger (produced)—the cheque has been paid at my bank.

RICHARD HAREY SUTTON . My father is the proprietor of Gildridges Hotel, Eastbourne—the prisoner has a room there—I cashed this cheque for him; I don't know the date, but I passed it into Molineux's Bank on 17th July—it was endorsed when I had it.

Cross-examined. Before you asked me to cash it you inquired for your Wednesday letter, but no such letter came for you.

HARRY MORGAN (Police Sergeant T). On the night of August 13th I went with Mr. Johnson to 21, Moor Road, and saw the prisoner—I said "I belong to the police, Mr. Butler; you are charged with forging an endorsement to this cheque—that was the cheque for 12l. 10s."—he

looked at it and said "Very well, I won't give you any trouble"—he said to Mr. Johnson "Is this done with your sanction?"—he said "Yes"—the prisoner said "Must this go on?"—Mr. Johnson said "Yes; there are other charges against you."

Cross-examined. I had no warrant; it was not required—there may have been more conversation while I was attending to other business, but I did not hear anything said about murder.

The prisoner in his defence stated that the 10l. per week commission was independent of 1l. per month salary, and as no notice had been given to terminate the agreement he was entitled to it from the commencement to the present time, and as the prosecutors never sent him a fraction of his salary the agreement was virtually broken by them; that any balance was to be paid to him monthly, but no statement had been rendered; that the prisoner's cheque was sent to Brighton after he left, and he had no money till he arrived at Tunbridge Wells, and was obliged to convert Mr. Keay's cheque into money in order to go on with the prosecutors' business.

GUILTY. Strongly recommended to mercy by the Jury owing to the position in which he was placed. — Two Months' Imprisonment without Hard Labour.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-870
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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870. WILLIAM REARDON (23) and JAMES BEAVERS (22), Breaking and entering the dwelling-house of John Augustus Hillier, and stealing six cases of aniseed oil, his property.

MR. GILL Prosecuted; MR. GEOGHEGAN Defended.

SAMUEL MARTIN (Policeman H 256). On the night of August 17th I was on a fixed point at Wapping Bridge—I was not allowed to leave the bridge—about 1.30 a.m. two men asked me the time, I told them, and then walked up and down Wapping Old Stairs till the clock struck 1.45—Reardon is one of the men; the other is not in custody—one of them said to the other "Jim, I shan't wait any longer, 1.30 is our time"—they passed over the bridge, and Reardon was within three yards of me—I am perfectly certain he is the man—they went towards Hermitage Bridge—Gun Wharf is on the side they came from—a few minutes afterwards the prisoner Beavers came to Wapping Old Stairs, and looked over the bridge—I asked him if he wanted to go inside the dock—he said "No, I am waiting for two of my pals to go on a barge." or "to work a barge"—I told him that two men had been there and gone on—we engaged in conversation, and then I said "Why, here are the two men coming back," and called out "Jim, here is your chum"—ho asked what I meant—Reardon said "Oh, I did not see you," speaking to Beavers—they walked to the other side of the bridge, 20 or 30 yards off, and spoke together, and Beavers came and offered me something to drink in a bottle—I said "I do not drink, as you are going on the river you may require it yourself"—he rejoined his companions, and all three wont towards Gun Wharf—later on I heard footsteps, and saw three men, one of whom was carrying a box—Reardon passed me on the bridge, and his boots crocked as if he had been in the water, and his right leg was wet and muddy from the knee downwards—when Beavers was almost over the bridge I threw on my light, and saw that ho was covered with mud from head to foot—I conversed with him for five minutes—on August 19th I went to the Thames Police-station, and picked Reardon out from eight or nine others

—on Sunday, August 23rd, I spoke to Beavers, and recognised his voice directly—I have no doubt he is the man.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I gave a description of all three men—I had a good opportunity of seeing Beavers—this was after 2 a.m.—I had no doubt he was the man when I went into the room, but his speaking made me doubly sure—I said that it was so dark I could not see them properly, and therefore I wanted to hear him speak—I was taken into a room to pick out the third man, but did not recognise him—I have been in the police two years in October.

WILLIAM BICKLEY . On 17th June, about 3.30 a.m., I found a case at Wapping Old Stairs, which I took to a barge, and then to the station—about three minutes before that I saw Beavers standing by a gate; I asked what he was doing there; he said "I am waiting for my pals"—his trousers were covered with mud—Sergeant Adams came up, and I had a conversation with him.

Cross-examined. He told me he was going on board to work—I identified him in the dock on 27th August, I did not pick him out from a number of men.

FREDERICK LONDON (Thames Police Inspector). I found this case in a urinal at Wapping Old Stairs, at 4.30 a.m. on the 17th.

GEORGE REED (Thames Police Inspector). On 17th August, between 11 and 12 a.m., I received information, and partially examined Gun Wharf—I then went to 12, Gun Alley, St. George's, and saw a quantity of rice packing, and there was a very strong smell of aniseed oil—I knocked at the door of No. 12 and saw Mrs. Reardon—I went in and asked for Reardon; he came, and I said "Have you got any aniseed oil here?"—he said "No, I don't know anything of any aniseed oil"—I said "There has been some stolen, and there is a very strong smell of it here, and there is some packing, and I must search your place"—he said that I could, and I went all over the house—I found a very strong smell of aniseed oil, and a quantity of packing all over the house, from top to bottom, and in the passage—I said "The place is smothered with packing, how did that come here?"—Mrs. Beardon said "I don't know how it came here, unless it came out of my son's pocket when he turned his trousers out"—Beavers was there—Mrs. Reardon said "Oh, I know what it is, my son had a sample, a small bottle of aniseed oil, given him by the foreman at the wharf to attract the rats"—I said "Where is the bottle? produce it"—they looked about, but could not find it—Reardon accompanied me to the wharf to face it out with the foreman, who said that he could not remember giving him a sample—the foreman is here—I arrested Reardon on the 19th, and told him the charge—he Raid that he was in bed from 11 o'clock that night—on 25th August I went into the cellar, and found two empty cases—a piece of glass in the window which looks into the yard was broken out, and it was possible to open the window from the outside—it was done in my presence—it was fastened with a padlock aa well as a hasp, but the padlock was not locked—I found marks of mud on the window outside and inside, and also on the bales which stood by the window—it was clearly river mud, as if a person's knee or foot had been there—I found some rice husks inside the window similar to that found at the prisoner's house—I traced further marks of mud from the window to the quay side and river front to a barge lying alongside the wharf; the barge was smothered with mud, as if persons had

passed over it, and there was rice packing on the gunwale—to get to the foreshore to walk to the barge, a person would have to go down Wapping Old Stairs—you can get to the yard from the foreshore over the croft—the mud on the foreshore is six inches thick in one place, but part of the way it is clean—there was a quart or three pints of rice husk in the house—on Sunday morning, the 23rd, I found Beavers detained at the station—I said "Halloa, are you brought here for that aniseed oil?"—he said "Yes; I don't know anything about the oil"—I said "Why don't you account for yourself, then?"—he said "I was in bed at 11 o'clock, and I did not go outside the yard till after you had been and searched the house on Monday morning."

Cross-examined. The oil was stolen in the early morning of Monday the 17th, and I went to his premises about 11 a.m.—I do not know that the smell of aniseed clings to persons' clothes for years—I took Reardon not many stones' throw from where he lives, I do not pretend that he absconded—the prisoners have both been out on bail—Wapping Old Stairs is about 300 yards from the police-court, there is a ferry across the river there—Beavers's brother lives in the same house with him, and I am told that he is employed at Gun Wharf and has been discharged—the mud on the window was not found till the 24th, because I only examined the floor where the goods were stowed at first, but the mud on the gunwale of the barge was found on the morning of the 17th—any one could get in at the window from the river side.

SAMUEL BOND (Thames Police Detective). On 23rd August I took Beavers at Watson's, High Street, Wapping, and told him the charge—he said "All right, I will go "—I placed him with a number of others at Wapping Station and Martin picked him out.

WILLIAM YOUNG . I am superintendent at Gun Wharf and live on the premises, George Augustus Hillierand others are the trustees—Reardon was occasionally employed there until some time in June—each case of aniseed oil contains four cans packed in rice husk which I have brought samples of—cassia oil is packed in the same way, but we have not bad any since I have been at the wharf; three years and eight months—on June 25th, in consequence of information, we took stock of aniseed oil and missed six cases—I saw two aniseed cases at the police-station—on August 24th the warehouseman called my attention to a broken window in the yard—during the remand we discovered two empty cases in a vault leading off the cellar—I did not authorise any sample to be given to Reardon, not did I ever give him one.

Cross-examined. Samples of it have been drawn—I am responsible for the safe custody of the goods—I do not know when that window was broken or when the cases were taken out of the cellar beyond what I have heard—citronella is not packed in rice husks—samples of cassia oil have not been taken to my knowledge—Reardon has not been in my employ since June—Hendy is my foreman, it would be a great breach of duty on his part to give samples away.

JOHN CHARLES FEAR . I am a delivery foreman—on June 15th I took stock of the aniseed oil and again after the prisoner's arrest and missed six cases.

Cross-examined. They were all kept on the same floor, and whoever took them must have taken them down into the cellar to open them—

there is no night watchman—the cellar has a padlock on the window, and the other part of the floor is fastened with an iron bar.

WILLIAM HENDY . I am one of the foremen of the prosecutor's warehouse; know Reardon—I do not remember giving him a sample of aniseed oil—there were no samples in the stable—he worked all over the wharf.

Cross-examined. Sometimes a dozen men work on the wharf—I have access to every part—rats are very fond of aniseed oil; there is nothing better to trap a rat in a stable—the aniseed oil has been sampled, and the cassia oil also—that is packed in rice dust and cork dust mixed, and so is citronella oil.

GUILTY .— Eighteen Months' Hard Labour each.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-871
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

871. ANDREW WALLACE (62), Robbery with violence on James Pocock, and stealing part of a watch chain, his property.

MR. METCALFE Prosecuted.

JAMES POCOCK . I am a blacksmith—on 29th August I called at the Brown Bear public-house, Upper East Smithfield—I came out and went into a urinal about 10.55—as I came out the prisoner and a younger man rushed on me, and the prisoner ripped my coat open and took 32 links of my gold guard—the other man came to his assistance—I seized the prisoner and he came on top of me, and the other man on top of him—he got my thumb in his mouth and bit it; here are six tooth-marks—I have not got over it yet—a policeman came up and they left me in the gutter—I saw the prisoner two days afterwards at Leman Street station, and picked him out from 12 others.

JOSEPH NEWMAN (Police Sergeant H). On 30th August I took the prisoner in Leman Street and charged him—he said "I was at the Iron Bridge with Old Nick, who sells goods; I was very late, I was so drank; I don't know how I got home"—I took him to the station, placed him with others of similar appearance, and the prosecutor identified him at once—he said "Old Nick lives at a lodging-house next door to the Bell public-house; you are getting this up very well for me"—Old Nick was before the Magistrate, called by me.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. This case is not got up against you for reporting one of the police officers—the inspector did not tell you to pick the man out, nor did I tell you next day that I would have you—I never heard of it—I did not point you out in the group to the prosecutor, and say "There is the man"—I asked the inspector to allow him to touch the man, and he touched you and said "I should like to serve you as you served me," and clenched his fist in your face.

Prisoner's Defence. The prosecutor thinks if he cannot get his revenge one way he will have it another.

GUILTY . *— Nine Months' Hard Labour.

THIRD COURT.—Thursday and Friday, September 24th and 25th, 1885.

Before Mr.Common Serjeant.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-872
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

872. HELEN TAYLOR the elder (49) and HELEN TAYLOR the younger (20), Unlawfully obtaining by false pretences goods from various people, with intent to defraud.

MESSRS.MEAD and BODKIN Prosecuted; MR. GEOGHEGAN defended the elder, and MR. GRAIN defended the younger prisoner.

LIONEL HUDSON . I am the son of William Hudson, a wine merchant, of 37, Moorgate Street—on 9th July I received this letter. (This stated that Mrs.H.Taylor requested him to send a quantity of wine, a list of which was given. The letter was headed "The Towers, Sunningdale)." I received these other letters, one in July and one on 5th August. (These ordered further quantities of wine). We sent the articles so ordered, nailing these cards (produced) to the boxes: "Mrs.H.Taylor, The Towers, Sunningdale"—we have never been paid for those wines and spirits—their total value was about 37l.—we have applied for payment.

Cross-examined by MR.GEOGHEGAN. The letters are not in the same handwriting; some are apparently in a man's writing—our manager was satisfied to send the goods on the more receipt of the letter—he was responsible—he was satisfied as to the respectability of the people before he sent from the address, and the amount was small—the police came to us first and took my father to attend the police-court.

Cross-examined by MR. GRAIN. I am a traveller in the firm—if I received a letter ordering wine I should not send it simply because the letter had the name of a park; I should make inquiries.

Re-examined. I don't know if any inquiries wore made at this place—my father is too busy to come to-day—I did not know the writer of the letter at The Towers was a mere caretaker—I should not have sent the wine if I had known that.

CHARLES SOUTHGATE . I am in the employment of Messrs.Hall and Good, 23, Bartlett's Buildings, Holborn Circus, manufacturing jewellers—on 14th November, 1884, I received this letter. (From Miss Taylor requesting Hall and Good to send by parcels post a leather case with a silver knife, fork, and spoon to The Towers, Bagshot, Ascot.) I believe Helen Taylor was the daughter of a customer of ours—I did not know the goods were going to be pawned when I sent them off—I received this letter of 18th November. (Ordering a dozen silver spoons in a case). I sent the goods—on 27th November I sent a coral bead necklace, on 3rd December a string of coral beads, on 11th December two gold snaps, the total value of the goods was 14l. 7s. 6 1/2 d.—I applied several times for payment by sending the statement to Mrs.Taylor, never personally—I have never been paid—she never replied to our letters—this knife, fork, and spoon are what wo supplied, I believe, value 55s.—they appear as if they had never been used, and these are the other articles we supplied.

Cross-examined by MR.GEOGHEGAN. It depends on whom the letters are from whether we should supply goods on the strength of them alone.

Cross-examined by MR.GRAIN. I charge her with false pretences—she made none in writing as far as I am concerned, but it was false that she should write for goods for the purpose of pawning them—there is nothing in the letter that is false—I never spoke to her—the coral necklace is worth 30s.

Re-examined. The address, "The Towers," conveyed the idea of a good house to my mind, and I thought Mrs.Taylor was a woman of considerable position living there—I did not know if she was a caretaker or not.

HARRY COBURN . I am a pawnbroker at High Street, Egham—on 16th May this knife and fork were pawned with me by the elder prisoner in the

name of Mary Taylor, Hose Cottage—this is the duplicate I gave—they are still in pawn.

Cross-examined. The prisoners have constantly redeemed articles which they have pawned with me.

Re-examined. They have redeemed 12 spoons and a pair of sugar-tongs.

JAMES PENTLAND . I am assistant to Hardy Brothers, of 19, Charter-house Street, shippers of jewellery—on 19th November I received this letter. (From Miss Taylor, requesting a lady's silver flask to be sent by post to The Towers, Lavershot, Bagshot). I sent this flask worth 3l. 18s. to the address—on 21st November I received this letter. (Acknowledging the receipt of the flask, and ordering a pen and pencil combined for the pocket). I sent it by post—I have applied for payment, but have not been paid—we have customers in Sydney who often come to London, and write to us like that, and we trust them.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEAN. We have a retail business in Sydney, and we sent these goods under the belief Mrs.Taylor was an Australian customer—we subscribe to no trade protection society.

Re-examined. The belief operated on my mind that they were for the ordinary use of trade.

HENRY SPONG . In December last I was assistant to Robert Starling, of Great Portland Street—this silver flask was pawned with us on 13th December for 1l. in the name of Miss Johnson, 12, Charlotte Street—this was the duplicate I gave—it is still in pawn.

JAMES WARREN BUMPUS . I am a boot and shoe agent at 56 1/2, City Road—on 19th February I received a letter, in consequence of which I sent goods to the value of 2l. 15s. 6d. to Miss Taylor, The Towers, Bag-shot—these are a pair of the shooting boots I sent—they have not been worn—I have not been paid for the goods.

Cross-examined by MR. GRAIN. I did not complain to anybody about this—the police came to me and asked me to attend as a witness.

HENRY COBURN (Re-examined). These boots were pawned with me on 16th May for 9s. by the elder prisoner in the name of Mary Taylor, Rose Cottage—they have not been redeemed.

JAMES WARREN BUMUS (Re-examined). A pair of men's as well as ladies' boots were ordered by the same letter—I should not have sent boots unless they had been ordered—I have not got the letter I received—I gave it to the Counsel for the prosecution.

ADOLPHE LE BAS . I am in partnership with Marie Le Bas, dressmaker, at 31, Conduit Street, Regent Street—on 27th March I received this letter from Miss Taylor addressed to Mr. Barbe (under which name the business was then carried on) asking for patterns of black silk broche and plain—I sent these putterns, and received a letter by post, which I cannot find, ordering so many yards of two materials amounting together to 7l. or 9l.—on 27th March I received anothor letter. (In this Miss Taylor acknowledged receipt of the first parcel, and ordered 10 yards of silk and patterns of cloth walking custumes to be sent to The Towers, Lavershot, Bagshot). I sent that—the value altogether of goods supplied was 14l. 2s. 1d.—I received this other letter. (Requenling an illustration of a dinner dress to be sent). I sent it—Miss Taylor never returned it—I have applied to Miss Taylor by post for payment, but have not been paid—I have been shown some of the silk I sent—the value is about 4s. or 5s. a yard.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I belong to a trade protection

society—very often I send goods on the receipt of a letter—we have a customer, Miss Taylor, near Bagshot, and I thought the writer was she, and that is one reason why I sent the goods, and then I thought she was a proper customer—those are my only reasons for sending.

Cross-examined by MR. GRAIN. The first account was delivered on 27th March—I have other accounts delivered in March which have not been paid—we allow three months' credit for some things—I wrote saying materials not made up were for cash—I was not willing to give them three months' credit for anything—the invoice says our terms are cash—I have never seen or had conversation with Miss Taylor.

Re-examined. I believed the writer of the letter lived at The Towers, and was in a position to pay for the goods.

DEVEREUX. I am assistant to Robert Starling, Great Portland Street—this piece of silk was pawned with us in the name of Miss Johnson, Charlotte Street, for 1l. 5s.—it is still in pawn; this is the duplicate I gave.

HENRY COBURN (Re-examined). This piece of silk was pawned with us on 2nd April by the younger prisoner in the name of Helen Taylor, Rose Cottage, for 15s.—it is still in pawn.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. It is a common thing for our customers to give a wrong address.

GEORGE HAARNACK . I live at 12, Charlotte Street, Fitzroy Square, and did so on 12th December last—no person named Johnson lived there at the time.

JAMES BURNS . I am a bookseller at 15, Southampton Row—I received this letter. (In this Miss Taylor requested Mr. Burns to send by post, books, a list of which was enclosed, to The Towers, Sunning dale, Bagshot). I sent them and then received another letter ordering other books—I sent those and received another letter ordering other books—the total value of the books I sent was 5l. 19s.—I applied for payment, but have never been paid—on April 27th I went to the house, knocked and rang for about two and a half hours, but received no answer—six weeks after, about June 2nd or 4th, I went again, and after waiting two hours I saw both prisoners, and produced the three letters I had received giving the orders—I showed them to the prisoner and said "Do you recognise the handwriting?"—the elder prisoner said "Yes"—I said I had come down to make some arrangement as to settling the bill—they said it was rather a peculiar time to come—it was a quarter past 6 on Sunday—I asked them if they could make any arrangement as to paying—Mrs. Taylor only said it was a peculiar time to come; she got between me and the door, and ultimately they both passed me and got in the house, and they shut the door in my face, put up the chain, and called the dog, which was about two feet long—no arrangement was made—I was not paid—the house appeared empty—this conversation was at the back door—I have not been paid since—about thirty books have been shown me by Inspector Smith—they are like those I supplied.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I went with a young man the second time—I had no stick—I saw the dog on both occasions, it made no attempt to bite me, it was noisy—Mrs. Taylor was calling the dog in—I had knocked and rung at the front door.

Cross-examined by MR. GRAIN. I saw Mr. Coxhead about there; he lives on the adjoining property, I think—he came to the hedge on the

first occasion, I made so much noise ringing—I said at the police-court, I gave the books as I thought they were in a position to pay and the address was high-flown."

CHARLES WHARTON . I am a bootmaker, of 122, High Street, Notting Hill—on 30th March I received this letter. (In this Miss Taylor requested Mr. Wharton to send a box of boy's boots on approval to The Towers, Bagshot). I have a customer of the name of Legrot, and mistook the name for that, and addressed the boots to Miss Legrot—a few days after I received this letter from Mrs. Taylor. (Acknowledging the receipt of the boots, pointing out the mistake in the name, and ordering a pair of boy's boots and shoes). I sent them, and received this letter on 6th April. (Acknowledging the receipt of the former order, and ordering other boots and shoes). I sent them—the total value of the goods I sent was 4l. 11s. 3d.—I subsequently sent an account; it was not paid; I received no answer—I went to The Towers, which has four towers, about 22 or 23 rooms, and stands on four acres of ground—I saw Miss Taylor at an upper window—I knocked and rang, but could not get any answer, and I came away—on three other occasions I went to The Towers; on the last I got in by an order to view—Mr. Rendall let me in, and introduced me to the elder prisoner; I did not see the younger one—I was shown over each room, and then invited to have wine with Mr. Kendall and Mrs. Taylor, and a cigar with Mr. Rendall—after that I showed her these letters and asked her in whose writing they were—she said hers, and acknowledged having had the articles—I handed her a copy of the account and said, "I call your attention to this account, Mrs. Taylor; now that we have decided the matter of the property, perhaps you will find me the amount of my bill "—she said, "No, I cannot "—I said, "Perhaps you will give me a portion of the account?"—she said, "We haven't any money in the house"—I said, "Well, how is it you should obtain these goods from me without the slightest prospect or means of payment?"—she said nothing, but referred me to Mr. Rendall, handing my account to him—he said, "Oh, it is all right, Mr. Wharton, it is only one or two little items that Mrs. Taylor owes, and I will place it with them," putting the account into a solicitor's brief-bag with one or two other little papers—he said too, "I have the entire management of Mrs. Taylor's affairs, and I will see this is paid"—he said I was to call at his office—I have written and called there once or twice, but have never been paid—he is a solicitor, of 27, Bedford Row—I have never seen him again.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I learnt the house was for sale, from a man I met on the road—The Towers is about two and a half miles from Ascot, and about two miles from Bagshot—one of Her Majesty's sons lives at Bagshot, I understand—the house could be let well for Ascot week; they offered to let it to me for then—he said the house was to be sold on 27th June; he said the account should be paid when the house was sold; he said it should be paid anyhow—Mrs. Taylor referred me to him as a friend of the family—I do not know if he has been subpoenaed here—there was a board up outside the grounds—I saw no bill up in reference to a sale—I had this bill of the sale on 22nd June forwarded to me—I attended the sale—I do not know that Coxhead was a neighbouring tenant, nor that he is at the bottom of this prosecution.

Cross-examined by MR. GRAIN. I did not know The Towers was Mrs. Taylor's freehold property; I merely understood it was to be sold—Mr. Rendall

might have mentioned she was the owner—I went all over the house except one room, Miss Taylor's, as I was told—I should say there were 15 or more bedrooms and servants' offices; a well fitted house, but no furniture in it to speak of—I did not see my boots—the elder prisoner told me there was no prospect of paying me—I understood the house and four acres of ground was one property—there were stables with no horses in them—I make no complaint against Miss Taylor.

EDWARD HENRY BARTLETT . I am a member of the firm of Ford and Co., solicitors to the London and Westminster Bank, Bloomsbury branch—in May, 1883, we arranged with Mr. Kendall, a solicitor, to advance 3,200l. on the security of The Towers—(I had nothing to do with it at the time, the deeds came into my possession afterwards)—these deeds given by way of equitable mortgage were handed to me to peruse on behalf of the bank—there was no conveyance of legal estate to the bank at that time—in May, 1883, the deeds showed the property to be in Mrs. Taylor, subject to an equitable mortgage of 22nd March, 1881, to Collison and Beddell, whom the bank paid off, and then the deeds were given to the bank—bills were given, I believe—the bank took bills at six months from Mr.Rendall and Mrs. Taylor in May, 1883, when we paid the 3,200l.—in September there was a legal conveyance to us by way of the property; it is endorsed on the deed—the old mortgage to Collison and Beddell was transferred to Rendall and Taylor, and by them to the bank—a small amount of the interest was paid at first, but the interest from 1884, at the rate of 5 per cent., 165l. per annum, is still due—the amount owed us is 3,220l. principal and 250l. odd interest; something, too, is due for costs—in June, 1885, we tried to sell the property, putting on a reserve price of 3,800l.; there were no bidders—we brought an action after that against Mrs. Taylor on the covenant in the deed, to recover principal and interest—we obtained judgment for the amount, 3,436l., and levied execution—the Sheriff's officer went into possession, but found very few goods there; others had been removed—we have received about 56l. towards the 3,436l.

Cross-examimd by MR. GEOGHEGAN. Subject to our mortgage Mrs. Taylor is the legal owner of the property—I have hoard that the late Mr.Edward Robins, the auctioner of 4, Waterloo Place, valued The Toners at 6,000l.—there has been no time like the present for difficulty in selling land.

Cross-examined by MR.GRAIN. When monoy is advanced on mortgage a considerable margin is left—I should advise a client to lend only half the amount the property was worth, with regard to agricultural property—in some places unoccupied house property is almost more difficult to sell than land; it is very difficult to realise on at the price at which it has been valued or lent on—I should say it was almost impossible now to realise more than two-thirds of the mortgage price on it—we thought we might by the action possibly recover our money after the sale proved abortive from Mrs. Taylor or Mr. Rendall, who got into it by taking the transfer of the Collison mortgage, which was on 29th September, 1884—I think unoccupied house property has been decreasing in value since 1880—a higher value might be put on it in 1880 than now—I thought The Towers worth the upset price of 3,800l.

By MR.GEOGHEGAN. There was an action of Taylor v. Coxhead about the title to a strip of land, a boundary.

Re-examined. The dispute was about a very trifling piece of land.

HARRY HUNT . I am a stove manufacturer of 43, Newington Butts—on 18th March I received this letter. (In this Miss Taylor requested him to and a small stove suitable for a studio). I wrote for information as to size and received this. (Naming 19 inches square as the size and suggesting the "Argus)." In consequence I sent a stove value 8s. and received this letter. (Acknowledging receipt of stove and asking for a price-list of kitcheners). I wrote that it would be necessary to see the kitchen—I sent my account with the stove or next day to Miss Taylor; I have not been paid—I went to The Towers in May—Mrs. Taylor met me in the grounds—I said "I have called for my account for a stove supplied to Miss Taylor"—she said Miss Taylor was not at home, she had gone to Bagshot—I asked to see the stove—she said her daughter had taken the key with her—I asked about the kitchener, if I could see the kitchen—she said she had not yet let or sold the house and could not settle anything about the kitchen—I asked if she could settle the account—she said her daughter would attend to it and that she expected her daughter would be in soon—I offered to wait, and I waited perhaps half an hour, but went away without seeing the daughter—I think 1 called back again to see if the daughter had arrived—I was answered in the negative.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. It was a portable stove, but was too heavy to carry about; it could be used for any room—I saw the case in the paper, and wrote to Inspector Smith—I said at the police-court "I have not ascertained the stove was obtained by fraud, I have not been paid for it "—that is true to that extent.

SAMUEL MOORE . I am a silk merchant at 78, Paternoster Row—in April, 1885, I received this letter. (Miss Taylor requested Mr. Moore to send by post black silk, plain and broche, to The Towers). In consequence I sent some patterns of both sorts and then received this letter. (Requesting him to send by return a lady's umbrella, best quality, and 10 yards of broche silk according to the marked patterns). I sent them; the total value was 2l. 19s. 8d.—this is the silk, it is in the same condition as when I sent it—I received this letter. (Miss Taylor acknowledged receipt of the first parcel and requested him to send 20 yards of black silk and an umbrella, and also patterns of fabrics for a tennis dress). I executed that order, it came to 7l. 2s. 6d.—I sent an account with each parcel, the total was 10l. 2s. 2d.—I have never been paid—I have never seen the second parcel of silk again—that was of superior quality, such as would be used by ladies of title, few ladies would wear it—I did not understand the silk would be pawned; I thought it would be used in the ordinary way by people living at such a house as I thought The Towers was.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I belong to the Trade Protection Society—I made no inquiries, but sent the goods on the mere receipt of the letter; the people were perfect strangers to me—the silk is made for anybody who can pay for it—I imagined it was for a lady of society by "The Towers" at the top of the letter—the neighbourhood is respectable, I have customers there, but no one from whom I could make inquiries—they are superior houses there, and each house bears its own name; they are not in streets—it was the name of the house, the letter, and the neighbourhood, that induced me to part with the first parcel of goods.

Cross-examined by MR. GRAIN. There is no embossed heading to the letter—there was nothing in the letter to show that the house was more

than a suburban villa—"The Towers, Lavershot, Bagshot," conveyed to my mind the impression that I was sending the goods to some one who could afford to pay for them, and in the ordinary way of business—the better quality silk is 6s. 11d. a yard—it would take 16 or 20 yards to make a dress.

Re-examined. Silk of that sort is not worn by caretakers who cannot pay rates.

HENRY COBURN (Re-examined). This silk was pawned on 23rd May, by Mary Taylor, Englefield Green, for 1l.—this is the ticket.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. Englefield Green is close to Windsor Old Park and to Sunningdale.

EDWARD JAMES WATHERSTON . I am a goldsmith and jeweller, of 12, Pall Mall East—on 12th May I received this letter. (Mrs. Taylor requested a silver flask with case to be sent by return of post to The Towers, Lavershot, Bagshot). I sent a flask value 6l. 6s.—on 20th May I received this letter. (Acknowledging the receipt of the flask, and asking for prices, with illustrations, of lockets). On 21st May I received this. (Requesting him to send a gold brooch set with coral, and stating that Miss Taylor would wait for the necklace till she came to town). I received no payment for the flask, and did not send the gold brooch—the three letters are not in the same handwriting.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. We have two customers named Taylor at Bagshot, who are of the greatest respectability, and we thought this order came from one of them, and so sent the goods—we did not look at our books for the address—I sent the goods on the receipt of the letter with the impression that the flask was for one of the two families named Taylor, between whom a wedding was going on; I thought it was for a wedding present—I belong to Stubbs's Protection Society—I have a very large business.

ELIZA HART . I am the wife of Eichard Hart, and live at Sunningdale—on the night of 21st July the younger prisoner stayed at my house, and after she left I found this black bag, which she left there—it contained a silver flask and coral necklace—I gave it to my husband, and it was given to Inspector Smith.

DANIEL NEAL . I am a bootmaker, of 68 and 70, Edgware Road—I received letters from Mrs. or Miss Taylor, the name could be taken for either. (The first one requested boots and shoe to be sent to The Towers). I sent them. (Another letter acknowledged the receipt and requested boots, shoes, &c., to be sent to The Towers). It was about the 5th June—I did not execute that order, but went to The Towers—I found the bell of the front door hanging out—the windows were partly whitened—I looked in the house and saw the rooms were unoccupied—I saw a dog, but it was chained, so I went up a path towards a back building—I met Mrs. Taylor in the pathway; I asked her if her name was Taylor—she said it was—I told her I had come with goods answering to her second order—she said "Those goods are for my daughter, she has gone to Bagshot to the post, and won't be back for two hours quite; will you leave the goods, and I will return what my daughter does not keep to-morrow"—I refused to do so—she said her daughter would be some time before she returned, and said "I have nowhere to ask you to sit down if you remain here excep the stables"—I waited in the stables for three hours—there were no horses there—I did not see Miss Taylor—Mrs. Taylor walked round about the grounds and in and out of the stables several times, and told me it was a

pity to waste time by remaining—I returned to London, taking the boots with me—I went to Marylebone Police-court, made a complaint, and applied for a summons, which was issued—a settlement was suggested by Mr. Cooke, the Magistrate, I think, when the case came on for hearing—I was paid by the solicitor employed on Mrs. Taylor's behalf.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. The Magistrate assented to that course after hearing my evidence as I have given it here to day.

Re-examined. I think mention was made at the time that there were 10 other cases.

GEORGE TRIMBLY . I am rate collector, postmaster, and grocer at Bagshot—in 1883 the defendant was summoned for poor rates in respect of The Towers—I was present at the hearing of the summons, and heard Mrs. Taylor say she was a caretaker, and had no interest whatever in the property, and that there were only two rooms furnished in the house—in consequence of that the house stands on the rate-books, but no rates have been paid—I have been postmaster at Bagshot for some years, and letters and parcels for The Towers have passed through my hands—I have sent two or three parcels a week to The Towers, sometimes more, since the institution of the parcels post.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I think Mrs. Taylor said she was the caretaker in 1883—The Towers would be rated at 135l. if it were occupied—she did not tell me she had removed the furniture and described herself as caretaker, so that the house might be described as unoccupied and unrateable, but the Magistrates were satisfied that it should be rated unoccupied.

Cross-examined by MR. GRAIN. Her name now stands in the rate-book as the person holding the property, as owner and occupier—that has been so for five or six years, I think—the question before the Justices was whether or not the house was occupied, and then she said she was not occupying the house except as caretaker—a caretaker in a house does not constitute occupation.

THOMAS KING . I am station-master at Sunningdale Station, the nearest station to The Towers—the greater part of the parcels for The Towers come there—I have been there five years—since February, 1884, about 20 parcels a month have come.

GEORGE GIG . I am a carrier, living at Sunningdale—for the last 18 months I have delivered four or five parcels a week on an average at The Towers—they mostly came from London—Miss Taylor mostly took them in, but occasionally Mrs. Taylor might have.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I know no other Taylors living at Sunningdale; at Ascot a Mr. Noble Taylor lives—I know Lavershot Hall, where the prisoners used to live—this (produced) does not look like a photograph of it.

Re-examined. Before the prisoners lived at The Towers they lived 200 or 300 yards away in a small place with about eight rooms, not so large as The Towers, and not on the estate.

By MR. GEOGHEGAN. They lived there some years, before and while The Towers were building—The Towers have been built four or five years.

JAMES HERBRICK . I am high bailiff of Chertsey County Court—I have had several warrants to execute against the prisoners—the return was nulla bona—I was last at The Towers, which I know well, about two

months ago—there was a trifle of furniture then in the breakfast-room, a table, and two or three chairs—I looked through the window.

ISAAC SMITH . Up to August last I was gardener at The Towers for 16 or 17 months at 18s. a week—when I first went a few of the rooms were occupied—there was not much furniture; they lived in the kitchen—I believe I lit fires there—in the spring I moved furniture out of the kitchen and bedroom and put it in the stables—no servant was kept; my wife used to come and do a day's work sometimes—I got my wages up to shortly before I left; that has not been paid me—I received parcels from the carrier when they were not at home—I have seen a little boy 14 or 15 years old there; he came there from school, I believe, for a day or two.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I never got directions to say they were not at home—I know they were always trying to sell the house.

JOHN SMITH (Inspector, Scotland Yard). On 22nd July I had a warrant to search The Towers—I got in by a window, one pane of which I found broken—I opened the catch and went in—I had previously knocked and rung at the door, and received no reply; I was in plain clothes—when I got in I heard a voice say "Who is there?"—I saw the younger prisoner—I said "I am an inspector of Scotland Yard; you know your mother is in custody on a charge of fraud, I suppose?"—she said "Yes"—I said "Is your name Miss Taylor?"—she said "Yes"—I said "I hold a search warrant to search the house for property supposed to be contained here obtained by fraud"—she made no reply—I said "Have you any pawn-tickets here?"—she said "My mother told me not to say anything about it"—I searched the house, she being with me—I was shortly afterwards joined by Constable Nunn, and Knight, an ex-sergeant—in one of the dresses behind the door of the bedroom I found these four pawn-tickets: Mr. Coburn's for a fork and spoon; Mr. Spong's for Mr. Pentland's silver flask; Mr. Coburn's for Mr. Bumpas's boots; Mr. Devereux's for Mr. Lebas's piece of silk, and two others relating to silk which has not been identified—I said to the prisoner "Whose dress is this?"—she said "Mine"—I searched through the house—I found a lot of new goods in a place between the top ceiling and the roof, which I got to by a ladder through a trap-door—I found a large quantity of new boots, a set of lawn tennis, new crockeryware, and other valuable property—in the bedroom I found three travelling trunks, very nearly new, not identified by a witness in this case—I have have had applications for tho property; I also found two boxes containing 320 white tiles for painting on, picture frames, three long lengths of calico, new, 50 pieces of unused music, cigar cases, eight new pairs of lady's boots, and other goods—some of these were in the rooms over the stables, where the prisoners were living at the time—I should say the value of the property I found was from 60l. to 80l.—I found an unused gas-stove in the stable and coach-house, which Mr. Hunt has identified—it was amongst a lot of crates, coals, and empty boxes—in the cellar I found three wine cases, with these labels of Mr. Hudson on them—the kitchen, a sitting-room, and a bedroom were partly furnished—I should think there were 24 rooms in the house altogether—the rooms over the stable were furnished; they were suitable for a coachman—no room was used as a study—I saw a new easel iu one room—I found

these 550 bills; none are receipted except a few trivial ones. (MR. GEOGHEGAN and MR. GRAIN objected to this, as no evidence that the accounts they represented had not been paid.) I found lawyer's letters on many of them—the total amount of these bills is 2,527l. 16s. 1d.—I have seen Cotton and Co. and some 50 of the people from whom these bills come—I found writs amounting to some 800l., and some judgment summonses—some refer to those I have given—many large amounts of the lastnamed refer to the materials used in building The Towers.

Cross-examined by MR. GRAIN. The larger amount of the writs and judgment summonses represent the building materials—these papers go back to 1863, but I have only taken those from 1880—some are earlier than 1863—many of the writs are in the name of John Taylor, the elder prisoner's son—he is alive; he has gone to Australia.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. Sometimes when a bill is not paid a tradesman sends a bill in once a month—some of them are duplicates and triplicates, but with a foot-note on the last one—amongst them is a bill sent to Mr. Baker, a neighbour living close by—I have only one bill to John Taylor; the writs are his—there is a bill from Shoolbred—I have been to them about that—a quaxter of that account was paid; the rest is owing.

Re-examined. In the 2,500 I have not estimated a single item before 1880, and no duplicates—the 296 bills include none but those to Miss and Mrs. Taylor.

MR. GRAIN and MR. GEOGHEGAN submitted that there was no evidence to go to the Jury on the false pretences counts. The COMMON SERJEANT concurred in this. They then contended that there being no evidence of false pretences other than those in the indictment, and it having been ruled that there was no case upon them to go to the Jury, the conspiracy counts, which were merely an alternative way of indicting for the same false pretences, should also be withdrawn from the consideration of the Jury. The COMMON SERJEANT, after hearing MR. MEAD, decided to leave the case upon the conspiracy counts to the Jury.

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Hard Labour each.

NEW COURT.—Thursday, September 24th, 1885.

Before Mr. Recorder.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-873
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

873. JOHN REEVES (38), Feloniously forging and uttering an order for the payment of 15l., with intent to defraud.

MR. NICHOL Prosecuted.

GEORGE ROBERTS . I am door keeper at the Army and Navy Stores—on 14th July I was on duty outside from 2 till 4.30—about 3 o'clock I saw the prisoner go up to Peel, a licensed messenger there, take an envelope out or his pocket, take a paper out of the envelope, show it to Peel, put it back in the envelope, and give it to Peel—I then spoke to Peel, and he went down Parker Street—the prisoner watched Peel out of sight and then went down Victoria Street—I was taken to Vine Street Station one day last month and picked out the prisoner from several others.

JOHN PEEL . I am a licensed messenger at the Army and Navy Stores—on 14th July, at 2.45 p.m., I was outside, and the prisoner came to me with an envelope and said "I want you to go to the bank and change

15l.; bring me three 5l. notes to 144, Vauxhall Bridge Road"—I went to the bank, got the cheque changed for three 5l. notes, went to Vauxhall Bridge Road, and found the prisoner on the footway—he said "I was waiting for you"—he took the notes and gave me 2s., and 2d. for beer, and I saw no more of him—I am sure he is the man; I picked him out among a lot at Vine Street.

Cross-examined. I mind the dogs outside the Stores as well as go on messages—I am the only outside messenger—you were placed with ten other men—I could not get a proper view of your face—I paid I believed you were the man, and the inspector said "Go and have another look"—I may have said I recognised you by your having one eye—the inspector said "Go and put your finger on him," and I did so—I could see 284 on the envelope.

GEORGE WILKS . I am clerk in the London Joint Stock Bank, Pall Mall—William Fuller is a customer there—on 14th July Field, the messenger, presented this cheque—I cashed it with three 5l. notes—I saw he had it in an envelope, and I took a note of the address, 284 Vauxhall Bridge Road—it is a good imitation of Mr. Fuller's writing, or I should Lot have cashed it.

Cross-examined. I asked the messenger who sent him—he said a man who met him outside the Army and Navy Stores—I asked him if he knew the man—he said "No"—I entered the numbers of the notes in my book.

Re-examined. The cheque is payable to the order of James Day, and it is endorsed James Day.

JOSEPH STAMMERS (Police Sergeant B). I was was with Sergeant Church in Rochester Bow and saw the prisoner with another man—as he answered the description of a man which was circulated in the information of July 21st I told him I should take him in custody on suspicion of forging and uttering a cheque on the London and Joint Stock Bank—he said "I know nothing about it"—I took him to the station, and Sergeant Church found on him a blank cheque of the London and Westminster Bank, Lambeth Branch—he was taken to Vine Street Station, placed with ten others, and Field identified him—he was afterwards placed with six others, and Roberts identified him—he was then charged, and made no reply—he gave no address.

Cross-examined. I believe I saw you pass the station once or twice—I took you 200 yards from the station.

FREDERICK CHURCH . I was with Stammers—I have heard what he said and confirm it—I was at Vine Street when Peel and Roberts picked him out—I found on him a blank cheque of the London and Westminster Bank.

WILLIAM O'NEIL . I am a shoemaker of 284, Vauxhall Bridge Road, the house is a club for young men; I live there—the prisoner has nothing to do with it, he had no right to give that address.

WILLIAM FULLER . I am a surgeon of 111, Piccadilly—I bank at the London Joint Stock Bank, Pall Mall Branch—on 15th July I went there and the cashier showed me this cheque—the signature is not mine, it is exactly like it, but it is a forgery; it was not written with my authority or consent, I do not know the prisoner.

Cross-examined. Being a doctor I write my signature several times a day, and it is easily obtained.

By the COURT. I write prescriptions and sign them—I seldom draw cheques on blank paper—the cheque is not like my writing, but the signature is an excellent imitation.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "The writing on the cheque is not mine and I know nothing about it. When the messenger came back the first time the inspector told him to go a second time and pick out the man, and he said I was the man. Two others who came said I was not the man."

The prisoner in his defence stated that the cheque was not his writing and that he did not present it.

GUILTY . He then PLEADED GUILTY to a conviction at this Court in December, 1883.— Fifteen Months' Hard Labour.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-874
VerdictNot Guilty > directed; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

874. WILLIAM HYATT (19) and FRANCIS CANHAM (17), Robbery with violence on Charles Watkins and stealing a coat, hat, and a handkerchief, his property.

MR. LOUIS Prosecuted; MR. GEOGHEGAN defended Canham.

CHARLES WATKINS . I live at 3, Langwell Street, Old Ford—on 23rd August between 1 and 2 a.m. I met a gang of chaps, the prisoners are two of them—Hyatt caught hold of my coat collar—I was knocked down and kicked—as I got up Hyatt made a kiek at my face; I put up my hand, and he kicked it—they took my coat off—I caught hold of Hyatt and said "Where is my coat?" and he pointed to Canham and said that he had got it—he broke away from me—a constable came, and I got hold of Canham.

JOHN SEWARD . I live at 25, Ripworth Road, Bow—on Sunday, 23rd August, between 1 and 2 a.m., I was in the Roman Road and saw the prosecutor in front of me—there was a mob of chaps at the corner who knocked him down and kicked him—Hyatt kicked him in the back several times, and as he was getting up Hyatt kicked his face, but he saved it with his hand—he said "Who has my coat?"—Hyatt said "That man in the road"—I did not see Canham do anything except look on, I did not see him with the coat.

THOMAS JERVIS (Policeman K 568). On 23rd August, at 1.45 a.m., I was on duty in Ford Street and heard cries of "Help," "Murder," and "Police"—I ran up, and Watkins had Canham by the throat—he said, "See what you have all done, I have lost my coat and handkerchief, I will charge that man"—as he spoke Hyatt was brought back—as I returned I picked up this loaded cane.

THOMAS LONG (Policeman K 110). I heard cries, and saw Hyatt running—I caught him 60 yards from the spot—when the charge was read he made no reply.

Hyatt's Defence. I had nothing to do with the charge.

The RECORDER considered that there was no ease against Canham.

CANHAM— NOT GUILTY . HYATT— GUILTY *†.— Twelve Months' Hard Labour.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-875
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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875. GEORGE NEWTON (51), Feloniously marrying Sarah Reynolds, his wife being alive.

MR. LOWE Prosecuted.

SARAH REYNOLDS . I am a widow, of 3, Edward's Row, Bow—on 20th November, 1871, I went through the ceremony of marriage with the

prisoner at Stepney Church, and have lived with him ever since—it is not my wish to come up against him, but the officer made me—I have had six children by him, and he has been a good father and a good husband to me; there is not a better man living—this is a copy of the certificate.

ELIZA GARRETT . I am married, and live at 16, New Square, Whitechapel—in 1854 I was at St. Philip's Church, Bethnal Green, at a marriage between my sinter and the prisoner—I signed the register as a witness, and this is a copy of it—my sister is alive; she is here—I have not seen her in the prisoner's company for 18 or 20 years—she has to get her living by washing and charing with her daughter, but she has had an allowance of 4s. from the prisoner from the time they separated.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I am not aware you were away in the country for any time—you lived happily for seven or eight years till you got entangled with some woman; you then deserted her and her three children, and they had to go to the Union.

BENJAMIN FORDHAM (Detective K). I took the prisoner, and his wife produced this copy of the second marriage certificate which she had procured.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "This charge is brought through spite. A man named Connell thought I was beginning to get a business together, and he set these proceedings going. My wife knew I was married. I was making her an allowance. I am not sure she knew I was married. I was separated nine years before my wife told her I was married. We separated as we did not live happily together."

The prisoner in his defence stated that he parted with his wife after seven years, as they did not live happily together, and allowed her 10s. or 12s. a week, but afterwards lost sight of her and married the prosecutrix, with whom he had lived fourteen years, and had since allowed his wife 3s. or 4s. a week.

GUILTY .— Eleven Days' Imprisonment.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-876
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation
SentenceMiscellaneous > sureties

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876. VICTOR DEBNAM (20), Stealing a purse and 18s. of Mary Neill.

MR. LOWE Prosecuted; MR. HICKS Defended.

MARY NEILL . I live at Ealing—on 22nd August, in the evening, I was with my sister looking into a draper's window in Mattock Lane—I had this basket in my hand, in which was my purse—the prisoner came up smoking; he puffed the smoke in my face, and then put his hand in my basket, took my purse, and ran away—I called "Stop thief," and saw him detained about five minutes afterwards—I gave him in custody—I saw my purse safe at the time he came up.

Cross-examined. This was about 8 p.m.—when I saw him he had already puffed the smoke in my face; not a second after that he put his hand in my bag—I had never seen him before—I saw no one else standing there—it was not very light—I did not keep sight of him when he ran, but several people ran after him—I positively swear he is the man; I know him by his height, his features, and his dark dress; I did not notice his face so particularly—I had a half-sovereign and 5s. 6d. in my bag; I have not seen it again—when I went up to him I said, "Give me my purse"—he said, "I have not got it."

HENRY DEACON . I was standing at the corner of Mattock Lane on the evening of 22nd August smoking my pipe—I heard a cry of "Stop

thief," saw the prisoner running, ran after and caught him in a garden stooping down under some laurels—I was five yards behind him when he went into the garden—two men came up and I asked them to hold him; he did not resist—I asked if he had got the purse—he said "No"—I waited till the maid-servant got a light; we searched under the laurels, and a young gentleman from the house came and helped me, but it was not found.

Cross-examined. I ran about 400 yards before I got to the garden; it is a very quiet place—the prisoner was the only man running in front of me; there were others behind me—I can swear to him by his clothes, he is in the same suit—I did not see him throw anything away—it was dark, but it was quite light at the shop window.

Re-examined. When the prosecutrix shouted I saw the prisoner—no one else had run before that.

GEORGE CLEMENTS . I live at 4, Railway Cottages, Ealing—on the evening of 22nd August I was standing near the corner of Mattock Lane and saw Miss Neil and her sister in front of a shop window—the prisoner was behind them smoking a pipe—he puffed the smoke in her face, and immediately afterwards took her purse out of her bag—I ran after him and never lost sight of him—I saw Deacon run.

Cross-examined. He ran round a corner, but I did not lose sight of him then, because I was standing at the corner.

SAMUEL CLEWS (Detective X). I took the prisoner and found on him 3s. 6d. in silver and 7d. in bronze.

Cross-examined. I found no purse or half-sovereign on him—I waited a minute or two—Miss Neil came up and said that he was the man—he said "I have no purse; are you a police officer?"—I said "Yes"—I was in plain clothes.

The prisoner received an excellent character.

GUILTY. Recommended to mercy by the Jury.— To enter into his own recognisances in 20l. to come up for judgment when called upon.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-877
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

877. JAMES DONOVAN (35), TIMOTHY DONOVAN (21), and JAMES CHANDLER (33), Robbery with violence on Thomas Mewes and stealing from his person 14.l

MR. SAUNDERS Prosecuted; MR. PARKES defended Timothy Donovan, and

Chandler was also defended.

THOMAS MEWES . I am a commission agent, of 55, Pimlico Road—on 1st August I was with my son on board the Camelia, which accompanied the race for Doggett's Coat and Badge—I made some bets with persons on board, and when the race was over I called them to the funnel and said that I would pay all my bets—the three prisoners were on board, but I had not betted with them—I had 400l. in my breast pocket, 20l. in my hip pocket, 14l. in gold and 35l. in my trousers pocket, which I had taken on board, and out of which I had to pay back 8l. 14s. 6d.—James Donovan halloaed out "Welsher"—I call him "Boots"—he and Timothy followed me to the funnel—James Donovan pulled out a knife, opened it, and put it to my neck and said "We want some bleeding money; give me 12s. and I will get the boys away"—I gave him the 12s.—my son had put his arms round my waist to protect me—he then let go, and the Donovans went a few yards away from me towards Mr. Hine—they saw there was no chance there, and returned and seized me again,

one on each side—he still had the open knife in his hand—he got on my left and Timothy on my right, and got the knife to my neck, but some young man knocked his hand away—Timothy said "Boots, hold him; if we can't get any bleeding money rip his guts open and chuck him overboard"—while my son had his arms round my waist, Timothy put his hand in my pocket and took out 14l., and dropped it on the deck—they both dragged me to the side of the boat—some one not in custody lifted up the bar and got me over the boat within two inches; I was within two inches of being in the river, but the boat lurched, or there would have been about ten of us in the water together—some friends took me into the cabin, the boat was stopped, and the police came on board at Chelsea—the boat then went on to Waterloo Pier—the police guided me ashore, and as I went off James Donavan kicked at my face, but I put up my hand; he had the knife open and said "I will murder you"—the two Donovans jumped ashore after me at Waterloo Pier, came one on each side of me, and said "We want a quid," that is a sovereign—I broke away and got up the steps; they followed me, and one of my witnesses got a cab, but James Donovan got in front of me and stopped me as I was getting in—I hit him on the jaw and knocked him down; he got up again, and my son gave him a blow, and he ran down the stairs crying for his mother—he said he had a poor mother to keep—he was then taken in custody—I saw Chandler on board, but did not see him do anything.

Cross-examined for Chandler. There were about 300 people on board, and quite 200 of them were thieves—the Donovans were knocking my ribs till I could not stand—I picked out Timothy Donovan on the Sunday from a group—the inspector told me to touch him, and I did so directly—I made a good many bets on board the boat—one man came and said "I want 5s. "—I said "Do let me have wind," and he came down the cabin and I paid him—the disturbance had commenced then; it did not commence on account of that—only one man with whom I betted complained that I had not paid him, and I paid him on the following Sunday 12s. 6d.—he had no chance of picking the money up, because it went all over the place—he afterwads came to this side-pocket, but could not get anything there.

Cross-examined by James Donovan. You had not a bet with me for a sovereign—I gave you the 12s. to get the boys away; that was not the result of a bet—you had the knife in your hand, and would have run it into my neck—my son held me round the waist on account of my notes.

Cross-examined by MR. PARKES. I went on board to bet on the race—Mr. Hine entered my bets for me; I have not got the book; they kicked it into the Thames, and they were going to kick Mr. Hine in—Chandler got off in a boat at Chelsea; he only put his hands on me and went away; he took no part in the robbery.

THOMAS JOHN MEWES . I am the son of the last witness; I was with him on the Camelia on August 1, about 5 p.m.; the three prisoners were on board; I had not made any bets—directly the race was over my father, who had been making a book on board, said, "Whoever has any money to come, come and I will pay him alongside the funnel"—James Donovan then took him by the throat and said "Give me some money, you—," and pulled him to him, and they closed round and tried to pick his pockets, but I put my arms round his waist and held his throat—James Donovan

took out a penknife, put it up to my father, and said, "If you don't give me some I will stick it into you," and then he said to me, "If you don't leave go I will rip your guts out"—I did not leave go—I saw Timothy get his hand where my father's notes and cheques were—I laid hold of his hand with my teeth; we wrestled; there were a lot in it—James Donovan said, "Give me a dozen bob and I will get the boys away"—I let go while my father put his hand in his pocket and gave him 12s.—Timothy had hold of my father's collar all the time—James Donovan put his hand in my waistcoat pocket while I was holding my father, and took 7s. out—I said, "I saw you rob me;" he said, "I will stick it in your eye," holding up the money—James Donovan then went two or three paces away—Chandler was not with them then, he left just previously, and I saw him attacking Mr. Hine—James Donovan came back with the knife and said, "If you don't leave go of him I will rip you right up"—he took my hat off and dashed it into my face and smashed it, and then threw it into the river, and said to Timothy, "Have you got anything? we can't get it"—they then suggested throwing us into the river—Timothy said, "Throw them overboard"—I heard money rolling about the deck, but was too much engaged with my father to know where it came from—they pulled us to the side of the boat—the bar was lifted partly up, and I was very nearly thrown over into the water, but a lurch of the boat came—there was a rush to get the money, and we fell back—I was taken down into the cabin—James Donovan stood at the top of the steps and said, "I will murder you when you come up"—the police came on board and guarded the gangway—the boat was stopped at Waterloo Pier, and my father and I went ashore and a number of others, and on the dummy the two Donovans got hold of my father and said, "If you don't give me a quid I will throw you in the river"—I pulled my father away—James Donovan jumped in front of him when he was getting into a cab, and my father hit him on the nose and knocked him down, and the police took him in custody.

Cross-examined by MR. PARKES. I was looking at the race and helping my father—I was not betting—there was no chance for my father to attempt to pay, they attacked him as soon as the race was over—my father only lost a few bets, but he had not time to pay them—I went and called them down to be paid—I never saw the Donovans before I bit Timothy Donovan in his hand—the marks were on it when he was arrested—I saw money on the deck—Timothy did not leave my father to pick it up.

Cross-examined by James Donovan. I did not give you in charge on board the boat, because there were only two policemen—we were pulled down the cabin steps, and there was no opportunity.

Cross-examined for Chandler. I made no bets—no complaints have been made of my father before—he does not make books at races—he does commissions for noblemen; I have only seen him make a book on this occasion—no one complained of his not paying him 5s.—there was a boy who was pleased to think he had backed the winner—I have not heard my father's evidence, but I know he paid everybody on board, and paid 8l. more than he ought to have paid.

Re-examined. Chandler tried to wrest me from my father, and then he left me and went to Hine—I turned round, and saw him wrestling with Hine.

By MR. PARKES. The boy bet 4 to 1—that was not the case with every

bet—my father had possession not only of what people had won, but of what they had deposited with him.

THOMAS HINE . I am a fishmonger, of 2, St. George's Road, Ebury Bridge—on August 1st I was on board the Camelia assisting Mr. Mewes in making a book; I only wrote the names down for him—I saw the three prisoners on board—James Donovan at Chelsea came round from the front of the boat, and halloaed out "Where is the b—? I will have my money back," and then he halloaed out "Welsher!"—a lot more got round Mr. Mewes, hustled him, and knocked him about—I said "Let the man alone, he is not a welcher, he will pay you all"—they still kept hustling him about—I went a little farther, and some of them turned on me—I did not see a knife—some of them left me and went back to Mewes, and James Donovan hustled him about again—I heard some one say "Throw the b—overboard"—I did not see Chandler then—they took Mewes to the side of the boat; they afterwards went into the cabin.

Cross-examined by MR. PARKES. Both the Donovans and Chandler hustled and knocked Mewes about—I saw their hands in his pockets, but did not see any money pulled out, as they pulled me to the other end of the boat.

CHARLES HARDING . On August 1st I was on board the Camellia, and saw the three prisoners and eight or ten people hustling the prosecutor about—I heard James Donovan say "If you don't give me any money I will rip your b—guts open"—I saw a knife in his hand with the blade open—Timothy Donovan had one hand at Mr. Mewes's breast pocket, and the other in his trousers pocket, and I saw money fall on the deck—Mr. Mewes was taken to the side of the steamer—I did not see Chandler at that time, but I saw him previously among the people who were round Mr. Mewes.

Cross-examined by MR. PARKES. When the race was over the people who had won bets wanted to be paid, but these people would not give him time to pay—he had no chance—I saw money fall out of Mr. Mewes's pocket on the deck, and several people picking it up.

Cross-examined by James Donovan. I did not give you in charge when the police came on board, because I was frightened to speak—you held the knife over me, and said you would serve me the same, and I was obliged to be quiet.

GEORGE FOSTER . I live at 19, East Lane, Bermondsey—I was on this steamboat, and saw the three prisoners and Mr. Mewes—James Donovan had a knife, and Timothy put his hand into Mr. Mewes's pocket and pulled out some money, which fell on the deck—Chandler was in the crowd, but did not do anything to Mr. Mewes—Mr. Mewes was taken to within a foot and a half of the water, and James Donovan said "Throw the b—overboard if we can't get his money"—Chandler knocked against me leaving the steamer, and said "You b—long one, if you don't let me pass I will throw you overboard"—he called to man in a boat and got in.

Cross-examined by MR. PARKES. The disturbance did not take place before the middle of the race—I betted with Mr. Mewes, and he had my money—he paid me my money when the race was over—they would not allow him to pay others—there was a gang of roughs, and he had to go into the cabin or he would have been thrown overboard.

Cross-examined for Chandler. I told the Magistrate what Chandler said

on leaving the boat, and also that he said he would throw my little boy into the water.

FRANCIS GODFREY . I live at 14, Cross Street, Black friars Road—I was on board this steamer, and saw the three prisoners—I saw the two Donovans molest Mr. Mewes—I saw them lift up the rail to throw him overboard—I did not see Chandler then—they would no doubt have had him overboard if they had not been stopped.

Cross-examined by MR. PARKES. I told the captain he had better blow his whistle for the police—he could see what was going on—I had no bet with Mr. Mewes.

CHARLES MARLER (Thames Police Inspector). On August 1st I was in a galley and was called to a disturbance on board the Camelia, off the Old Swan, Chelsea—I went on board with two constables, and saw the prosecutor surrounded by about 15 men—James Donovan was one of them—I heard a man say "He is a b—welcher, he has got our money and won't pay"—the prosecutor's friends got him down in the cabin, and I placed two constables at the entrance of the cabin to keep the opposite parties separate—Mr. Hine complained that he had been robbed, but could not point out the man who had stolen his money—he went ashore with his son at Waterloo Pier, and James Donovan went ashore—I don't know whether Timothy did—shortly afterwards James Donovan returned from the Embankment bleeding from his nose; he pointed to Thomas Mewes as the person who had assaulted him, and wished to give him in custody, and Thomas James Mewes said that James Donovan had taken 7s. out of his waistcoat pocket and given it to another man—I directed them all to go to the station with me, and Mr. Mewes charged the prisoners and they charged him—12s. 5 1/2 d. was found on James Donovan, but no knife.

Cross-examined by MR. PARKES. One man said "He is no welcher, he will pay to any amount if you let him alone"—people were surrounding him besides the prisoners, as if eager to get their winnings—Timothy Donovan was not apprehended for some days; that was the result of inquiries—I do not remember seeing Timothy Donovan.

THOMAS WEBB (Thames Policeman 24). On August 1st I went on board this steamer with Inspector Mantel, and saw Chandler place his hands on Thomas Mewes's shoulder, but when he caught sight of me he disappeared.

HILARY MARTLE (Thames Police Inspector). On August 8th, about 12.30, I was in Commercial Road, Whitechapel, about mid-day, with a detective, and saw Timothy Donovan about 150 yards from where he lives—he saw us and ran into No. 63, where he lives, and slammed the door—as we could not get admittance at the front door, I sent an officer through the next house to the back of No. 63—I knocked at the door and got no answer, but the officer said "Look out, he is coming through the front," and Timothy Donovan rushed out; I caught him and told him I was a police officer and should take him in custody for being concerned with another Donovan, in custody, in stealing some money from a gentleman on board the Camelia steamboat, on August 1st—he said "I was not on board of any steamboat on that day"—he was taken to the station, and the prosecutor and witnesses identified him.

Cross-examined by MR. PARKES. We had sent a boy a few before to see if he was in.

GEORGE WRIGHT (Thames Police Sergeant). On 17th August, about 11 a.m., I saw Chandler in a public-house in High Street, Wapping—I said "Hankey Pankey, I want you for being coucerned with others in robbing two gentlemen on board the steamboat Camelia on August 1st on the navigable River Thames"—he said "I don't know anything about it; I was not there; I know you will give me a fair chance"—I said "Yes, that will be all right"—he said "I saw it in the Police News, and it was a b—fine show up"—I took him to the station—he was placed with eight others, and Mr. Mewes and Godfrey identified him—he was afterwards placed with others, and identified by young Mewes and Foster.

Cross-examined. I have known him for years, and I think I have seen him with James Donovan, but I won't swear it.

GUILTY . JAMES DONOVAN and CHANDLER then PLEADED GUILTY to previous convictions: James Donovan at Clerkenwell in June, 1880, and Chandler at Reading in February, 1880. JAMES DONOVAN** and CHANDLER**— Ten Years' Penal Servitude each. TIMOTHY DONOVAN*— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

There were two other indictments against the prisoners for assaulting Thomas Hine and T. J. Mewes.

OLD COURT.—Saturday, September 26th, 1885.

Before Mr. Justice Hawkins.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-878
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

878. JOHN HENRY LAMB was indicted for wilful and corrupt perjury.



WILLIAM MURGATROYD . I am chief usher at the Bow Street Police-court—it is part of my duty to administer the oath to witnesses, and to see that they sign their depositions when they are read over to them—on the 29th May last Mr. Simmonds was brought up at Bow Street before Mr. Flowers, I think—the prisoner appeared as prosecutor—the charge was embezzlement—I swore the prisoner in the usual form—only sufficient evidence was taken to justify a remand, when the case stood over until the 3rd June—the evidence taken on the 29th May was then read over to Lamb—he was recalled for cross-examination, and I administered the oath to him again in the usual form—Mr. Flowers was the Magistrate on the first occasion and Mr. Vaughan on the second—Mr. Sayer was the clerk on both occasions.

JOSEPH ROBERT SAYER . I am clerk to the Magistrates at Bow Street Police-court—this is the charge-sheet referring to the charge against Simmonds. (Read: "Charge taken 1 p.m. on the 29th day, 5th month, against Thomas Simmonds for embezzling 110l., or thereabouts, on the 26th May, 1885.") I took these depositions on the 29th May (produced)—on the first day the deposition of Lamb only was taken, after which Simmonds was remanded till the 3rd June, when Mr. Vaughan was the Magistrate—after Lamb had been sworn on that day I read over to him the depositions which were taken on the 29th May—Simmonds was in the dock—the prisoner was recalled and re-sworn—I asked him if it was all true, and he said "Yes"—some further questions were then asked him

by Mr. Vaughan—he was ultimately cross-examined, and then there was a further examination by way of re-examination—the whole of it was then read over to the prisoner after the other witnesses had given their evidence, and he signed it—the prisoner was bound over to prosecute, and Simmonds was committed for trial on the same day. (The deposition was put in and read: "John Henry Lamb.—I am a solicitor, of Eaton Place, Ealing, and the Outer Temple—on the 26th May inst. the prisoner was my clerk—I had an action going on of Tidy and another v. Luff—an offer had been made to settle—on the 27th May I saw the prisoner, and he told me he had received the money—he said 'I have settled the matter with Luff '—I said 'For how much?'—he said '110l., I stuck out for another 5l'—I asked for the money—he said 'It is quite safe; I have put it in the London and South-Western Bank'—I asked him for it—he said he had more important matters to attend to, and would meet me at 12 o'clock on the 28th May, and give me the money—I left him—he did not pay me, but put me off till to-day at 12, when I again saw him—I asked him to come with me to get the money—he said 'I cannot do it to-day; I will make out the account and settle it to-morrow'—I said 'If you do not give me the money at once I will give you in charge'—he said 'You can do as you like'—I paid the prisoner 1l. a week salary—the prisoner is tenant of chambers which I have in the Outer Temple, and I have an agreement with the prisoner to pay him 10l. a year for rent—I became acquainted with the prisoner in March last, and was introduced by my clerk—he ought to have paid the money to me at once, and he had no right to have paid it into his bank—I have made inquiries since then, and I find the prisoner has an account at the London and South-Western Bank," &c.)

THOMAS SIMMONDS . I am an accountant and carry on business at 20, York Buildings, Adelphi—in February, 1885, I had a room at the Outer Temple, 225, Strand, room No. 64, where I was carrying on my business—at that time I was a debt collector for Mr. Braham, a person I had known for some years—it was necessary at that time in many of these matters that legal proceedings should be taken—I was conducting the business under a deed of assignment; I then knew a Mr. Percy Sewell as a solicitor's clerk, and I believed him to be clerk to the prisoner—he called upon me in February with the prisoner and introduced him as a solicitor—the prisoner said "Mr. Sewell has explained to me your requitements, I am willing to co-operate with you"—I said "I have several matters of business, the papers relating to which you see now on the table, for a Mr. Braham, which principally arise out of a deed of assignment, he is the assignee—under that deed I have made application for payment to the several persons indebted, and being an unqualified person, as you know, I can take no legal steps"—he said "Very well, I am perfectly willing to allow my name to be placed on the office door and for the business to be carried on"—I then had a Solicitor's Journal on the table and I looked at it, but I did not see Mr. Lamb's name in it—it contains the Law List, and I said "Where are you carrying on your business now?"—he said "Well, I have no office now, but I had an office in October last in Renfrew Road, Kennington Lane"—I said "Excuse me, have you your certificate?"—he said "No, I have not"—then I said "You are useless to me"—he said "Well, it is unfortunate, I have the certificate itself from the Law Institution," producing it at

the same time, "but the fact is I have not been able to find the money to stamp it, can you find it?"—I said "Well, I won't say anything about that at present, you had better let the matter stand over for a short time, say a week, and see me again"—upon that the interview terminated, I believe—I had explained to him that there were several matters which I thought would involve litigation and good profits might arise, and he said "Well, I hope we shall come together"—I think I told him I had had over 20 years' experience in the profession, and that Mr. Braham knowing my capabilities would require me to attend to various matters—the prisoner and Sewell called about a week afterwards, and then there was another solicitor's name on my office door—I had made arrangements in the meantime—his name was Mr. Fulcher—I said to Lamb in consequence of his not having his certificate I had been compelled to arrange with another gentleman—about ten days after that the arrangement with Mr. Fulcher was broken off—he was suffering very much from gout and was in infirm health altogether—I wrote to Lamb, and he afterwards called with Sewell—I told him that in consequence of ill-health Mr. Fulcher found it very inconvenient to attend at the office, and I told him of the termination of the arrangement—I said "Now, Mr. Lamb, have you your certificate?"—he said "No, I have not, I have been thinking over the matter," and simultaneously he produced a draft bill of costs—I do not wish to say against whom, unless his Lordship requires it—the amount of it was 17l. 3s. 4d.—he said "This has been delivered over a month"—if we only take legal proceedings against the party we are sure to get the money, as he n✗olds a responsible position under the Corporation—I asked him to let me look at the bill, and he did so—I said "If I can procure you the money for your certificate are you willing to assign your interest under it?"—he said "How much do you think you could get?"—I said "I cannot say, Mr. Braham is the gentleman who will do it, I have no doubt"—he said "Well, I will leave it to you," and he was to call again in a day or two, and I was to see Mr. Braham in the meantime—I did so either the next day or the day after and told him I thought it a good debt—I saw the prisoner again and explained to him what had taken place with Braham, namely, that, Braham would give 8l. for the debt provided Lamb would assign his interest—he said "Well, I am quite willing, it is rather low," meaning a low sum—I said "I cannot do any more; he is a Jew, and you know what Jews are; there is a lot of risk in these things, as you know; you may sue people, but you do not always get your money;" and he said at last, "I will take 8l.; when do you think the money will be forthcoming?"—I said, "In a few days, no doubt; I will prepare the deed"—Sewell was present at every interview—I said, when Lamb was with me, "Before this is finally completed, what terms are you going to arrange? you see I have a respectable office"—I cannot give you the date of this, but it was all in February—I said, "The offices are decently furnished, and apart from Braham's business I am in a position to introduce other good matters, and if I am instrumental in getting your certificate, that is another benefit to you; the rent of this office is 30l., and the housekeeper's expenses are a little over 10l. "—he said, "Well, what do you think?"—I said, "I would rather you make the proposition"—he said, "You name it"—ultimately the proposition was that each should receive half the profits, I to find the money out of pocket in matters I introduced,

and he to do the same in matters he introduced—he said, "Well, on the condition that I am not to be called upon to pay office expenses"—I said, "That is rather hard," but ultimately he said, "Well, say half"—I said, "It would only be fair, Mr. Lamb, that we should embody these terms in writing"—he said, "Oh, I could not do that, because it might get to the ears of the Law Society"—I said, "I should be very sorry to prejudice you in that respect, therefore I will trust to your honour"—I then asked Mr. Sewell to retire; he did so and I said, "Now, Mr. Lamb, before we finally conclude matters it is a very painful admission for me to have to make, but I must tell you that I have been twice in trouble; I am anxious to redeem the past and to go on in a straightforward manner," and I told him that I had received 18 months and also a term of two years—the date of the first was 25th May, 1879, and of the second in the November Sessions of this Court, 1882—he said, "Well, Mr. Simmonds, it is very unfortunate, but I am sure, having suffered what you must have done, it will be a caution to you in the future; I like you all the more for your candour; we will waive that"—I said, "Now, having explained that to you, how are we going to manage? for I must conduct the matters on behalf of Mr. Braham, and other matters, in fact, that I introduce"—he said, "Oh, certainly, I have no objection to that, I shall only be too glad of your assistance; of course, for the purpose of carrying out the business, you will represent yourself as my clerk"—I said, "Of course, being an unqualified person, Mr. Lamb, I can do nothing else; I have conducted matters of business for solicitors for some years, apart from my ordinary employment of a clerk, and I have always been requested to represent myself as clerk"—he said, "That is quite understood"—I think we had a little refreshment, and the interview terminated—his name was put up, and I paid for it, the names appearing on the office door as "Mr. Simmonds, Mr. Lamb, solicitor, commissioner, &c."—Lamb and Sewell daily attended at the office, and Lamb introduced a matter of Tidy v. Luff—he brought the papers from Ealing—he asked me to look through them, which I did—I said, "There has been very great delay here"—I made an interlocutory application for judgment against Luff—I obtained the judgment under Order 14—I took out the summons myself at Lamb's request, and I attended before one of the Masters; I forget which one at the moment, but I think it was Master Francis—I should say that it was attended by Counsel, but I attended with Counsel—I prepared his brief and paid his fee—I would not be sure who delivered it, whether it was Sewell or myself—I paid for the filing and all those things—the learned Counsel, Mr. Terrell, argued it before the Master—I was successful, and there was an appeal, when the judgment of the Master was confirmed for 160l. with costs—I signed judgment—I think it was about 160l.—I have not the bill of costs here, I suppose Lamb has it—I made them out, and charged for everything as between party and party—Lamb looked them through afterwards, and we settled them together—I cannot remember the amount of the costs—there were two sets; there were the costs before the Master and the costs of the appeal—I should think the two sets together would be about 25l.—there were affidavits on both sides; I forget who prepared them, but I think Lamb; he had them prepared for some time; I should not like to say for certain; the matter had been neglected for two years, and I could not say whether I prepared them or

not—the Sheriff realised by the execution 34l. 10s. and out of that the Sheriff, of course, had to deduct his expenses, which I think were about 7l.—I took the money from time to time at Lamb's request, and handed it to Lamb—I drew the money from the Sheriff—the Sheriff is bound to hold the money for 14 days under the Bankruptcy Act—we were very short of money, and Lamb suggested to go on and get the Sheriff to advance a little first—the interest we paid was rather exorbitant, namely, 1l. 5s.; I am afraid to calculate what it would be percent.—it was a long interest, but I consulted Lamb before I did it, and he said, "We want the money"—it would be 650 percent.—I had a little money out of that, I think 3l.—the name of the Sheriff's officer was Mr. Wright, of 52, Chancery Lane—I afterwards wrote a letter to Luff in Lamb's name, and on 19th May he came to the office and paid me 125l. in notes and gold—on the following day, I believe it was, I paid 100l. into the London and South-Western Bank, Camberwell branch; I opened an account—on the day I received the 125l. I paid Sewell 5l. on account of 26l. Lamb owed him for overdue salary—it was arranged beforehand that Sewell was to be paid—he was in very great distress; he had two sick children—I paid him another 5l. two or three days after—the other 15l. I kept on account of what was coming to me—I paid the 100l. into the bank for safety, I did not care to carry about so much—I think I saw Lamb on the 23rd—Tidy got none of the money entirely through Lamb—Tidy lived at Ealing—he had a banker—I had differences with Lamb—we both knew Tidy's money had been recovered, but there were some costs to come out of it—we had 26l. for costs, but there were other costs as between solicitor and client—I could not say from memory what those costs were; they were a considerable sum, and it is some months ago; it might be about 25l.—a writ was issued, appearance entered, and defence delivered, and then I took out a summons under Order 14—the cost of the summons would be only 3s.—then there was drafting affidavits and all that sort of thing—the brief fee paid was 2l. 4s. 6d.—there was a Fi fa and a lot of expense—I met Lamb on 23rd May at either Charing Cross or the Wellington—I told him what I had received, and I gave him a letter from Mr. Webster Butcher, of Bouverie Street—it was in consequence of that letter that I paid the 100l. in—Lamb could not attend at the office—I think I received the letter on the 22nd—I think it was on the 20th that Luff paid me the money—I am sure it was the day I received the letter that I paid it in—I wish to be correct—I have not my pass-book here, I have it at home; at least not my pass-book, but paying-in book and cheque-book—I had notice to produce my books at the police-court; I have not the notice here.

By MR. WILLIAMS. I did object to produce my cheque-book and pass-book; I did not consider it relevant to the inquiry—I had no particular objection; there was nothing in it that I did not wish to be seen—there was the admitted fact that I had paid this money in, and it showed the payment in.

By MR. MEAD. I told Lamb that I had paid the 100l. into the bank, and he said "I wish you had given it to me; I would have paid it into my bank"—I said "I was not aware you had a bank; you told me some time ago that you had an account at the Birkbeck, and that it had been closed long ago; but I told you long ago I intended to have a settlement, and I preferred to retain the money to see what

there is between us" (we had had a good deal of unpleasantness); and then I should hand over whatever balance he was entitled to—there was money due to me in respect of several matters pending in the office, in which I was entitled to a share according to the arrangement—Lamb's debt to me was not to be paid out of Tidy's money—I knew that the 125l., subject to the deduction of fees and legitimate costs, belonged to Tidy—Lamb said when matters were settled whatever was to be deducted he should have to borrow from his father—if I had handed it over I should never have got anything from him—Lamb said "Give me a couple of pounds"—I paid Sewell more after that—he had 13l. altogether out of the 26l. owing to him—he had small-pox in the house and diphtheria, which I knew for a fact, for I went to his house—he gave me a receipt for the 2l.—it got mislaid—it was produced at the police court—Sewell was present when the 2l. was paid—I made an appointment with him for the 28th May—he asked me to go and settle two warrants out against him—he was obliged to keep away from the office in consequence—they were for debt, and one for Queen's taxes—I met him on the 28th May, which was Thursday, and he asked me for an account—I told him I had been busy looking after his and my matters at the office and I had not had time to prepare it—on the following day I met him at the corner of Wellington Street when he said "I want the balance now"—it was not a great success my getting the 125l.; it was a compromise—when I received the money I did not write to Tidy and say "I am happy to inform you that Luff called here yesterday and settled your account by paying 125l. "—I preferred to wait and see Mr. Lamb—if Mr. Lamb had been at the office no doubt he would have been written to, but I was waiting to see him—I told Lamb I had been over to see Hudson, the tax collector, in the Kennington Road and I would make out the account and he should have it to-morrow, and whatever balance he was entitled to I would hand over, for we had had differences and I intended to separate—he said "I shall have the money, if you do not hand it over to me now I shall give you into custody"—I said "You had better be careful what you do"—we walked along, and the first constable we met he called, and I was taken to Bow Street and charged before Mr. Flowers—I made my appearance here and was acquitted—I was the tenant of the chambers, and was liable for the rent—I did not pay any rent—I owed half a year's, 15l.—I did not wish to use Tidy's money for that—I had arranged with the landlords, business not being very brisk, and they took a bill after the first quarter—that bill was not due then—I forget the exact day when it would be due—the bill has not been met, in consequence of those proceedings; they upset everything—Mr. Braham went with Lamb to Somerset House to take out his certificate—I was not in the employment of Lamb as a paid servant—I am his clerk under the arrangement made between us—I dare say it would amount to a partnership, I have no doubt—I intended to have a share of the profits, but not as if I were an admitted solicitor in partnership—I was not Lamb's clerk, in fact—I do not act myself as a solicitor—I never held myself out to be a solicitor—I did on one occasion make an affidavit in which I described myself as a solicitor, I recollect—that was in the case of Braham and Walker—I was asked at the police-court—it was a printed form of affidavit which the County

Court rules require you to make—Mr. Lamb never paid me 1l. a week, and he was not in a position to do it—it was not suggested at any time—I never agreed with Lamb to pay him 10l. a year for the rent of certain chambers and offices in the Outer Temple—the arrangement between us was that the profits of the business to be carried on by us should be divided between us.

Cross-examined. I have been a solicitor's clerk—I have only had an arrangement of this kind with two persons, namely Mr. Fulcher and Lamb; no one else, that I swear—the solicitor, of 20, York Buildings, Adelphi, Strand, where I am now, is Mr. Barratt—I am simply preparing some bills of costs for him; I am not his clerk—he has paid me from time to time—I had a little money from him last week—the work relates to several matters of his own—he pays me as I earn the money; on the amount of the bill, 4 percent.—that is all I do at present; I have been there about two months—I have also attended to a matter of his privately, which I did out of friendship, as he was under an order of attachment at Holloway Gaol—there was another gentleman there with me of the name of Fosgate—he has not been convicted, that I am aware—how can I swear that he has not?—I am almost prepared to swear that he has not been convicted—I have heard that he has twice been tried here for forgery, but I do not know of it of my own knowledge—I believe it is true that he was tried and acquitted—my arrangement with Mr. Fulcher was the same as with Lamb—Mr. Fulcher is of St. Mary's Square, Hoxton—no one introduced me to the bank when I opened my account; I went myself—I did not get a letter of introduction, I swear. (A letter was handed to the witness. ) I have not seen this document before, certainly—the handwriting is very much like Mr. Barratt's—I believe it to be his, to the best of my belief; he sometimes writes very irregularly—I asked Mr. Barratt to write a letter of introduction to the bank—I believe he did so—I do not call that an introduction, that is a reference—I gave Mr. Barratt's name as a reference—I went myself voluntarily—they asked me for a reference—I think the account was opened on the 22nd—the date of the letter is the 29th—I could not be sure whether it is Mr. Barratt's writing; to the best of my belief it is. (Another letter was handed to the witness. ) I do not think this is Mr. Barratt's writing—he writes so irregularly, and there is a great difference between the two—I could not swear to the writing—I have a brother who I am sorry to say is at present in trouble; he is at Reading Gaol—I should think the reference to the bank is not in his handwriting—I will not swear it is not—it is not like my brother's writing, certainly, and I should say it is not his—he lived at Dulwich—I will not swear that the letter is not in my brother's handwriting; it is not like his, that is all I say—I think it is like Mr. Barratt's—Mr. Barratt promised to write to the bank; that is why I gave him as a reference—Mr. Barratt lives in Lambeth, at 20, York Buildings; it is not my office, but his—I cannot exactly remember whether Mr. Barratt said he had written that to the bank—the manager told me he had received a letter—I have already given you the best of my belief on that—I cannot recollect the date when my brother went to gaol—he is only awaiting his trial—I should say he was not in gaol on the 29th—I understand he is there on a charge of stealing 21l., for which there is not a tittle of evidence—Mr. Braham is the prosecutor, and I should say persecutor—I mean my friend Mr. Braham, who advanced the

money—my brother previously did business for him, and knowing me longer he said "Will you take up my matters for me?"—I did not pay a single sixpence of the 125l. to Tidy—I paid 13l. altogether to Sewell and kept 12l., a portion of what was owing to me—I used the balance for the purposes of my defence, under legal advice—I did not convey to the solicitor that it was Mr. Tidy's money, paid to me in discharge of a debt due to Tidy, in that explicit way—I think I told him so—he did not advise me to expend the whole of the 100l. in my defence—I told him there were differences between Lamb and myself—he did not ask me whether I paid any of it over to Tidy—I considered that I was entitled to spend the money in defending myself against such a wicked charge that was made against me—Lamb incarcerated me in prison—I have not the amount of the bill of costs paid out of the 100l.—I have not a single sixpence of it left—I have spent it all in defending myself at the trial here. (A cheque was handed to the witness. ) Q. Look at the endorsement on that cheque, "Fulcher." A. Yes, I signed that by his authority, as a matter of business; I had Fulcher's authority in February to sign his name generally in matters of business. Q. To endorse a cheque in his name? A. To sign his name in matters of business, I do not say cheques. Q. To endorse his name on cheques? A. I do not say that; if it was not expressly said, it was implied. In all matters of business he gave me liberty to sign his name—I do not think I have ever endorsed his name upon another cheque—I think that is a matter of business—I really do not know who the other person is who endorsed the cheque—it is no doubt the name of the person who cashed the cheque, when I got it cashed—out of that cheque I paid an instalment for hiring office furniture—I never paid the proceeds, 2l. 8s. 6d., to Fulcher—there were some matters of business between us—I paid the cheque to Moeders—there was a contra-account between Fulcher and myself in respect of some moneys I disbursed—I made an affidavit in the County Court, in pursuance of the County Court form, that I was Lamb's clerk—I have sworn that I was; it is true in one sense. (A document was produced. ) That is my affidavit, made in conformity with the County Court rules as to the service of a document. (Read: "I, Thomas Simmonde, of Outer Temple, clerk, in the permanent and exclusive employ of John Henry Lamb, &c.") I hope I shall be allowed to explain about that affidavit—my trials are already in evidence—I was convicted on 26th May, 1879, of conspiring to obtain goods by fraud, and sentenced to 18 months'—I have suffered for that; and in the month of November, 1882, I was convicted of receiving a stolen cheque for 200l., knowing it to have been stolen—I was not then a solicitor's clerk; I was not in any employment—I was sentenced to two years', and have suffered for that, and I thought there was an end to it—there was, at the time I was convicted of receiving the cheque, knowing it to have been stolen, an indictment for forging that cheque, but I did not forge it—that has not yet been tried—I took an assignment of the bill of costs of Lamb for 17l., of which he got 9l. altogether—8l. was the amount of the deed, but Mr. Braham lent him the other 1l.—I brought an action against a gentleman in the Corporation, in the Mayor's Court, and recovered a verdict in Lamb's name and at his request—I took offices in the Outer Temple in the beginning of last January—I had not paid any rent—the furniture was distrained upon.

PERCY SEWELL . I live at 20, Alverscourt Road, Dulwich, and was formerly a clerk in the defendant's service when he carried on business at 2, Lower Renfrew Road, opposite the Lambeth Police-court—I left him in October, 1884, in consequence of the depression of his business—he gave me this letter (produced) explaining the reason—I had seen Lamb on several occasions between that time, and when I called on Mr. Simmonds he had not any office—I went with Lamb to Mr. Simmonds's office in February last—I had been introduced to Mr. Simmonds—negotiations were opened, but afterwards broken off—about the end of February I went again with Lamb to Mr. Simmonds—an arrangement was come to that Lamb should occupy part of the office at the Outer Temple with Simmonds; that Mr. Lamb's name should be painted on the door, and that Simmonds and Lamb should divide between them the profits of any business that came there from the introduction of Simmonds or Lamb, but that Mr. Simmonds was not to look to Lamb for any salary, and that he was not to be expected to pay for anything in the shape of rent or cleaning expenses of the office, and so on; that Mr. Lamb should have no liability whatever—at the latter part of the interview Simmonds said he should like Mr. Lamb to make some agreement in writing between them to embody the terms, but Lamb said he would rather not as it would be dangerous, as the Law Society might possibly hear of it—the arrangement further was that if Lamb came into the office with Simmonds I should retain a seat in the office as Mr. Lamb's clerk, and Lamb said he thought he could pay me 1l. a week, or he would be glad if it could be more—afterwards Lamb and I went regularly to the office every day until the latter part of the time about May—legal business was transacted there, and Mr. Simmonds did the active part—he would draw affidavits if required, and I copied them—after Simmonds was in custody I saw Lamb at Ealing; he wrote to me from his private house—I went, and Lamb told me that he wanted to speak to me about Simmonds; that he had given Simmonds into custody—I said I had heard so, and Lamb said to me "What are you going to do?"—I said "I have heard you have charged Simmonds with embezzling 125l., and you swear he was your clerk, and that you paid him 1l. a week; is that so, Sir?"—Lamb turned to me and said "What if I have?"—I said "It is a very serious matter, Sir"—he said "What can I do? I must put myself right with Tidy," and he asked me what I intended to do—I said "I can only say what I know; I think it is a very serious matter"—he said "Well, you have nothing to gain by keeping with him; you had better stick to me."

Cross-examined. I am now in the employ of Mr. Churchley, of 15, Broad Court, Bow Street—while I was in Simmonds's office Lamb was to pay me from time to time; he undertook to do so—I had no arrangement with Simmonds, except that Simmonds said from time to time he would take care that Lamb did pay me—I may have said before the Magistrate that when any matter was settled Simmonds said "Now, Mr. Lamb, there are three of us; Mr. Sewell must be considered; we will divide"—I received 13l. out of the money, which Simmonds paid me on account of 27l. salary, which Lamb owed me—Simmonds informed Lamb that he had paid me, and Lamb acquiesced in the arrangement.


NEW COURT.—Friday and Saturday, 25th and 26th September, 1885.

Before Mr. Recorder.

14th September 1885
Reference Numbert18850914-879
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > lesser offence
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour; Imprisonment > hard labour; Imprisonment > hard labour; Imprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

879. GEORGE ISETT (25), EMMA ISETT (22), SAMUEL CRAMER (48), ROBERT SIDNEY (56), ROBERT MOUNTFORD (63), MARY ANN DUNDAS (43), THOMAS WILLIAMS (45), and ROBERT GRAY (60), Unlawfully conspiring to defraud divers persons of their rents and profits of houses. Other Counts, for obtaining money by false pretences.

MR. BESLEY, MR. MONTAGU WILLIAMS , and MR. BODKIN Prosecuted; MR. GEOGHEGAN and MR. PARKES appeared for the Isetts; MR. WARBURTON and MR. DILL for Dundas; MR. KISCH for Cramer; and MR. OVEREND for Mountford and Grey.

BENJAMIN LEESON (Policeman 37 B Reserve). In October, 1881, I held a warrant for the commitment of Sidney for rates due for house 46, Shawfield Street—before 4th November I found him at 115, Highfield Road, and took him to Holloway—in April, 1883, I had another warrant against him for rates for 56, Redesdale Street, Chelsea—on 30th May I arrested him, and he paid those rates—on 5th November I received another warrant against him in respect of the same house, which I was unable to execute—the rates were not paid.

JOHN BILLEN (Policeman W 38). On 30th June, 1883, a warrant was granted against Sidney for rates at 115, Highfield Road—he gave up possession, and the warrant was withdrawn.

Cross-examined by the prisoner Sidney. Two warrants I had against you were paid.

Re-examined. I took him to Holloway on 10th January and 1st August, 1882.

WILLIAM CUSSENS (Police Sergeant B). On 6th June last I went to 29, Victoria Road, Battersea, about 12.30 in the night—I left another officer in front and went through another house to the rear after we had rung the bell and waited and got no answer—I was getting on the wall when an arm came over the wall—I seized it and found it was Cramer's—I got over the wall—I told him I was a police officer and I should take him into custody for being concerned with George Isett and his wife in stealing a quantity of things from Mr. Collinson, a draper, of 12, Tachbrook Street, Pimlico, on 27th May—he said, "Very well"—at the same time I heard the back door being fastened—I said, "Where is Isett and his wife?"—I believe he said, "I don't know," but there was a good deal of excitement—I got a constable to hold him in the back yard, and ran to the back door and got it open—inside I saw George Isett, fully dressed, in the back kitchen—I had a bull's-eye in my hand—there was no other light in the room—George Isett said, "Halloa, Cussens, here I am"—I said, "Where is your wife?" pointing to the back kitchen or scullery—he said, "She is in there"—I went in and found Mrs. Isett standing up in a corner, also dressed—there was no light—I told them both I should take them into custody with Cramer on the same charge of stealing from Mr. Collinson—George Isett said, "Well, I will go with you"—I took them to Rochester Row Police-station—I found on Cramer two pawn-tickets which do not relate to this case—next day we made an examination of the house No. 29—we found several articles which Mr. Collinson, who was present, identified as his—they were a pair of blankets, four

towels, three screens, a pair of lace curtains, a toilet cover, a fender, a pair of brackets, a comb, brush, and tray, and two window blinds—I produce the marriage certificate of Isett—the marriage took place in 1885—on 19th June I went to 19, Pratt Street, Lambeth—Cramer had been living there—I found a perambulator which I showed to Mr. Church, of Messrs. Herman, Loog, and Co., of 113, North End Road, Fulham—on 6th July I went to 36, York Street, Westminster—I found Dundas—I had a warrant against Robert Robertson, Robert Sidney, and Mary Elizabeth Williams for conspiracy—Mary Elizabeth Williams is Dundas—when I entered she said, "Bad news for me, I suppose?"—I told her I was a police officer and read the warrant—she said, "To tell you the truth I have been so muddled this last week or two I don't know what I have been doing; Sidney told me that I need not appear to the summons, as Mr. Smythe has seen to it," meaning Mr. Smythe the solicitor—a summons had been served upon her previously, failing that the warrant was issued—on searching I found a Herman Loog perambulator—I went to Mortlake on 18th July—about 11 am. I saw Thomas Williams in the High Road—I said, "Your name is Williams"—he said, "No, it is not"—I said, "I know it is, I am a police officer, and I shall apprehend you for being concerned with Sidney and Cramer in stealing, by a trick, two tons of coals on March 27th last from Henry Spence, of 310, Kennington Road; you will also be charged with being concerned with Sidney and Dundas in stealing a perambulator from Herman Loog on 27th May last"—he replied, "I do not know the people at all"—I took that to mean the prisoners—he had this letter in a closed and addressed envelope in his hand. (Addressed to B. Garrod, Esq., Dowgate Hill, marked private, and stating to "My dear Ben" that four pawn tickets had been sent to the pawnbroker to be renewed, that the writer was at a loss to know where to raise a "SOV." until "the little affair is over" and signed "W.P. ")—I also found four pawn tickets—they are out of date—the letter is in Grey's writing—Williams is known as Ben—I took him to Rochester Row—I saw Williams write this receipt. (From Sergeant Cussens for 11 pawn tickets received on 12th August, 1885)—the tickets had no reference to the charge.

Cross-examined by MR. KISCH. When I asked where Isett was, I think Cramer said "Inside"—he was inside—I do not know whether Cramer has made payments in respect of the perambulator or bassinette.

Cross-examined by MR. OVEREND. I do not think I have seen Grey write—I have seen a lot of his writing—one of the pawn-tickets was for a Bible—I am not aware that it was a family Bible 20 years old.

Cross-examined by MR. WARBURTON. I have made no inquiries about Mrs. Dundas's separation from her husband.

Cross-examined by Williams. You attempted to pass me—I mentioned two charges, the coals and the perambulator, not sewing machines and furniture.

Re-examined. I produce the four pawn-tickets referred to in the letter alleged to have been written by Grey—one of them has on it 36, Essex Street—I know Grey occupied that house—another one is of 2, Besborough Gardens, Pimlico—Grey is connected with that house—two of them are for pledges in May, 1884, and two in June, 1884—two are in the names of Mary Johnson, and two of Thomas Williams—the Bible was pledged on 14th June, 1884.

JAMES MORLEY (Detective Sergeant). I was with Cussens on the midnight

night visit to Victoria Road, Battersea—George Isett being in custody, I found on him nine pawn-tickets—I took him to Battersea Station, and then to Rochester Row Police-station, where Isett called me and said "You will find Mountford at Regent Street"—266 I think he said—Cramer said "I have got the perambulator, and you won't find it"—I kept watch upon 27, Victoria Park Road—on 22nd June I saw Sidney—I followed him—I read this warrant to him (produced)—I said I was a police officer, and should take him on a warrant for being concerned with others in obtaining perambulators and other things—he had taken the house No. 27 in the name of Cramer—on the way to the station he said "I brought the perambulator to the Court, and took it back again and told Mrs. Sidney 'I expect the man to call for the Queen's taxes,' and she was to let him have that for them"—the warrant was granted in consequence of his non-appearance at the police-court on a previous day—on that day I had seen Dundas, Williams, and Sidney together—Williams came into Court, saw Mr. Smith, the solicitor, a few minutes before 12, and went out—12 o'clock was the appointed time for a further hearing—after that the three disappeared.

Cross-examined by MR. PARKES. I arrested the Isetts without a warrant for a larceny by a trick.

Cross-examined by MR. KISCH. I had no warrant to arrest Cramer—I made a note of what he said—he did not say "I can produce the perambulator"—the perambulator was found at the place where he was living, by the police—it was in a closet on the ground floor.

Cross-examined by MR. DILL. I did not arrest Dundas—I saw her at the police-court—I saw her several times—I saw her with Williams and Sidney—I did not see her go away—I know nothing of her antecedents or separation from her husband.

Cross-examined by Sidney. I did not see the perambulator.

Cross-examined by MR. OVEREND. Marshall arrested Mountford—I have made no inquiries about his antecedents.

GEORGE BUSH (Police Sergeant V). On 18th July I was at Richmond—I saw Grey at the Peldon, Marsh Gate Road—I knocked at the door, which was opened by his wife, and he was in the passage—I told him I should take him into custody for being concerned with Williams, Dundas, and others in long firm frauds—he said "I know nothing about it whatever"—I said "You must go with me to the police-station," and he went to Richmond Police-station, and from there to Rochester Row—in the train I said that Williams was in custody, and he said he had sent him to London that morning with a letter and some pawn-tickets—this was about 12 o'clock in the day—I know a house was taken in the name of Paget, but that is not from anything Grey has said.

HENRY MARSHALL (Police Inspector V). I have had this case in my hands from the commencement—on 11th June I was watching 29, Lillington Street, Pimlico—I saw Mountford approach the house—I was dressed in private clothes—as he was entering the house I stopped him and said "I am Inspector Marshall, I think you are Mr. Holloway"—he said "Yes"—that was the name he was living at Lillington Street in—I said "I have a summons for you in the name of Robertson, what is your right name?"—he said his name was Mountford—I read this summons which I had to him—it is for unlawfully conspiring with others to defraud Herman, Loog, and Co. of one sewing machine, value

5l.; one perambulator, five guineas; one perambulator, seven guineas; and another, five guineas, by means of false pretences, and a bassinette, the total value being 29 guineas, and requiring him to appear the following day, the 12th—he said "The sewing machine is at my daughter's"—I said "I will send an officer to see, and I sent Morley, who was present—he gave this address, which Morley took down: "14, Allen Street Westminster Bridge Road"—I went to 86, Kennington Road and knocked at the door, which was opened by Thomas Williams—I said to him "I want to see Mary Elizabeth Williams"—he tried to turn me out of the house, he was under the influence of drink—I got inside, and Mary Elizabeth Williams came into the room—I said "Are you Mary Elizabeth Williams?"—she said "Yes"—I said "I have got a summons for conspiracy against you"—I read the original and served her with a copy—she said "I am not this man's wife, my proper name is Dundas"—addressing Thomas Williams she said "You have brought me into all this;" "you amongst you" I fancy were the words, "give up the pawn-ticket"—after some pressure from her he produced this pawn-ticket marked No. 12 from his pocket, and as he was about to pass it to her I took it from his hand and kept it. (Dated 11th May, 1885. at Mr. Soames's by Thomas Williams, of 86, Kennington Road, for a perambulator for 1l.) Dundas attended the police-court on the 12th, and the case was adjourned to the 17th—on the 12th Mountford appeared at the Court at 2.30, a warrant had been issued for his apprehension—all the prisoners who were summoned attended on that day—on the 17th the Isetts and Cramer were brought up—I took Mountford in charge at the station in accordance with the warrant, and he was taken before the Magistrate—the case stood over again for the attendance of the others—when I read the charge over to Mountford at the station he said the Isetts had brought him into all this, what he had done was as their servant, he had fetched the goods home for them and pawned them—I said "That is not quite so, you obtained goods sometimes in the name of Robertson," and subsequently I said to him, when a letter was produced, "I see you gave Isett as a reference to get into and take the house of Mr. Jewell, of 51, Sutherland Street, one letter was written there," and he said that was his signature, but that was the only reference he had given—a copy of the summons against him was found on him and some memoranda which had nothing to do with the case, and he has had them back—before admitting the reference he attempted to take it from amongst some of the other papers.

Cross-examined by MR. PARKES. When Mountford said at the station that the Isetts had brought all this on him the Isetts were not present—I know the Isetts and Mountford have lived together, but I do not know the relationship between them—Cramer lived at 47, Sutherland Street and the Isetts at 51, and I believe he was frequently there.

Cross-examined by MR. OVEREND. I did not know Mountford had been in possession of Isett's house as Sheriffs officer—I sent Morley to 51, Thornton Road, Brixton, but he failed to obtain any information about Mountford there—I have inquired as to Mountford's antecedents and cannot find that he was connected with these prisoners until the writing of that letter, but he says in the letter he has known them for years—I know nothing against him, excluding this case—I found the sewing-machine was at Mountford's daughter's as he had said—I do not know

that Mountford paid instalments for the machine, he was credited with commission for introducing customers.

Cross-examined by MR. DILL. Complaints of the prisoners came to me in December last—I had them under my observation in the early part of June—I knew nothing of Dundas before this case.

Cross-examined by Sidney. You asked me to take charge of a perambulator which you had on the roof of a cab during the proceedings at the police-court—I do not remember your saying I was fortunate, as in three days Mountford would have been on his way to Sydney, nor that you were an old brother officer—you brought the perambulator to the Court with a view of stopping the proceedings which were then instituted.

EMMA FRANKS . In September, 1883, my father had the house 71, Vincent Square, to let—I manage the letting of my father's houses—on 18th September Sidney called on me—I subsequently received this letter by post. (Agreeing to lake 71, Vincent Square, for three years, at 85l. per year, and giving the prisoner Grey as one of two references.) Grey's address is given as 26, St. Stephen's Road, Bayswater—I wrote to the address given, and received in reply this letter. (Signed R. Grey, and stating that Sidney would be found a good and careful tenant, and "I have always found him a gentleman of integrity and respectably connected,"—the other reference was from Dr. Thomas, of Camden Town—I have lost it—the contents were similar to the other reference, that Sidney was a respectable man, and that he had a brother a solicitor in Chancery Lane—afterwards Sidney called at our house and signed the agreement—he retained possession for a quarter—he let it out in tenements for 30s. a week, but he never paid any rent—we took out a summons for fraudulent removal of his goods, then he came and gave us the key.

Cross-examined by Sidney. My father was a party to the agreement, because the house was his—he does not appear because I did the transaction—he is a horse-dealer—I wrote and told you I objected to your letting the house out in apartments; I did not mind an undertenant—we do not know any betting men—you did not write to say that the house would be no good unless you could let off—the effect of the letter was that you had the house and should do as you liked—the house had not been let off—my father is very well known in the neighbourhood—we took out a County Court summons against you, and finding we had no chance of getting the rent we did not appear, and had to pay the expenses—I heard of no application for any debt owing by you.

Re-examined. I had no previous knowledge of Sidney—he represented himself as a retired master mariner.

ALFRED GEORGE THOMPSON . I am an auctioneer and house-agent—in December, 1883, the house 137, Alderney Street, Pimlico, belonging to Mr. Barker, was to let—Sidney applied to take the house—after the rent was mentioned he wrote out this memorandum and signed it. (An agreement to take the house, dated December 18th, 1883, and signed Philip Sidney, addressed to A. G. Thompson and Co., and giving two references.) I wrote to the references, and got these replies. (One from Dr. Thomas, of 17, Wilmington Terrace, N.W., stating that he had known Sidney 18 or 20 years, and invariably found him a straightforward man, and that he was able to pay 65l. per annum; the other from Mr. R. Jennings, of 158, Finsbury Road, who had known Sidney for some years, who was highly respectable

and would be a good tenant. ) Sidney signed the agreement—the first rent was due in March—I witnessed Mr. Barker's and Sidney's signature. (Agreement produced, dated l8th December, for three years, from 25th December, 1883, at 65l. per annum clear. ) I got no rent—in consequence of what I heard I went to the house, but did not see him—I found lodgers there—he afterwards came to my place.—I suggested if the house did not pay him it would be better for him to give the house up, and "I will cancel the agreement and you may go"—he gave up the house and went—he promised to pay me after he left, and gave me an address at Richmond to write to him—I forget it.

Cross-examined by the prisoner Sidney. I do not know that you called twice upon the landlord in reference to the state of the drains—I do not remember your telling me about them—I have not heard of any tradesmen calling for payment of your debts.

ROSE HAINES . I am single—I took the ground-floor at 137, Alderney Street, after Christmas, 1883, of Mr. and Mrs. Sidney at 20s. a week—I paid my rent to Mr. or Mrs. Sidney at times—this is my rent-book (produced)—I left before the Sidneys.

Cross-examined by the prisoner Sidney. I afterwards applied to you to take a house of me—I did not look over some premises with you; I gave you the name of some premises to see after—I would have paid the rent if you had taken them for me.

Re-examined. There were two more lodgers in the house when I went there—Sidney lived there with his wife.

ANDERSON MASSEY . I am an auctioneer, of 18, Great George Street, Westminster—I had the letting of No. 2, Bessborough Gardens, Pimlico—Mr. Louer, the owner, brought me some letters, and I met her and Grey at the house—Grey gave me these references, one from W. Pemberton, of 18, Longridge Road, Earl's Court Road, and the other from E. T. Peddell, of 2, Guildhall Chambers—I told Grey the rent would be 80l.—he said he would take the house—I wrote to Mr. Pemberton, and received this reply (stating "I consider Captain Grey a desirable tenant; I am not acquainted with his means, but I believe him to be a respectable gentleman, and likely to take care of your house")—after an interview with Peddell I agreed to let the house—this is the agreement, dated 31st March, 1881, to let from 25th March, 1884, at 80l. per annum—he went into possession—no rent was paid at Midsummer nor at Michaelmas—I applied to him and he gave up possession—he paid no rent.

Cross-examined by MR. OVEREND. I wrote a letter which Grey signed, stating that he would give up possession at Michaelmas—when the first quarter's rent was due Grey offered me a foreign bill of exchange for 26l., and that the 6l. over might go towards the next quarter's rent—I declined to take the bill—if he ever told me the bill had been paid I might have said that I was sorry I had not taken it—the bill had six or seven weeks to run when offered to me, and I could not give a receipt for rent for that—I feel sure I did not say I was sorry I had not taken the bill.

Re-examined. I should have given up my right to distress had I taken the bill—I had no knowledge of the bill having been paid.

EDWARD CLARK . I am assistant to Mr. Charles Wire Sidstone, of 23, Moorgate Street—on 20th March, 1884, Grey called at the shop, and gave orders for stationery—I engraved an address die for 2, Bess-

borough Gardens; he sent a monogram afterwards—I supplied him with goods amounting to 2l. 2s. 9d.—I sent in three accounts with the three orders as they were delivered; the last on June 13th, 1884.

HENRY CHARLES GUNNS . I am a clerk to Messrs. Rickett Smith, coal merchants, of Victoria Wharf, Grosvenor Road, Pimlico—Grey called and said he had taken a house and would want some coals, and I gave him this one of our post-cards to send an order. (Producing order of May 14th, 1884, for two tons to 2, Bessborough Gardens, and stating: "Let me know when winter stock can be had; shall require six tons.") On receipt of that card I sent two tons of coals amounting to 2l. 6s. for cash—the carman did not bring back the money—I did not give credit; he took it—I got this letter on crested paper: "Messrs. Ricketts, I shall require when the summer price of coals is at its lowest, and shall let you know when convenient to receive four tons of household and three tons of parlour; I will give you cheque for the whole on your delivering the invoice"—I supplied the seven tons; I applied for the payment for the two tons several times; I wrote to say I wanted payment before I should part with any more coals—this is the answer; "June 3rd, 1884. Messrs. Rickett Smith, I will pay your small bill before I receive the other coals, yours obediently, R.J. The beginning of next month I shall require the other coals."

Cross-examined by MR. OVEREND. I applied for payment about a fortnight after I supplied the other coals—I was quite satisfied with the apparent respectability of Grey.

Re-examined. I knew the house was a large house and would be a large rent.

HENRY PERCY PRATT . I am a wine merchant, of 2, Morton Street, Pimilico—I supplied wines and sprite to No.2, Bessborough Gardens, Pimilico, between 17th June and 5th July, 1884, to 5l. 15s. in value—I applied 10 or 12 times for the money; I never got it—Grey offered me a bill if I would give him the change in cash, but that was not good enough.

Cross-examined by MR. OVEREND. I appeared at Westminster Police-court against Grey in support of the charger for obtaining goods fraudulently—I did not summons him—the charge was not dismissed.

HENRY MARSHALL (Re-examined). There was no process of Pratt against Grey which was dismissed.

FRANK RICHARD CALLINGHAM . I am a wine merchant, of I, Lupus Street, Pimilico—I got orders on paper with a crest monogram, and address of 2, Bessborough Gardens from Grey—between 13th July and 12th August I supplied wine to that address to the value of 7l. 8s. 2d.—he said he would pay once a month—I made several applications for payment; I got nothing—the address influenced me in supplying the goods.

Cross-examined by MR. OVEREND. Grey wrote to me first with an order, and I sent the goods—I excepted cash on delivery, but Grey was often out when the goods were left.

JOHN JARVIS . I live at 22, Marine Parade, Dover—I had a house, 66, Gloucester Street, Pimlico, to let in March, 1884—Grey called on me at the Gresham Club in the City—he said he had seen the house, and liked it very much, and would like to rent it—he agreed to take it at a rental of 120l. a year on a three years' agreement—he said he had two

loads of furniture at a repository, and was anxious to get possession, so that he should not have to pay rent for them—he gave me these references of Mr. Pemberton and Mr. Peddell—he took possession, and about a month afterwards I got a letter from Mr. Jennings, who saw me at the club, and I went to the house and saw Cramer, the servant, there—Jennings agreed to give up possession the next day—when I went to get possession Cramer wanted to know what I would give him to give up the key—I took a caretaker with me; I agreed and gave Cramer 10s., and he gave me the key—he said he was a porter, and sometimes moved goods for them, but lived in Sutherland Street, Pimlico—to the best of my belief Cramer is the man.

Cross-examined by MR. KISCH. I said at the police-court I would not swear to him, it was 15 months before—I would not swear to him to-day.

JOHN JAMES PEDDELL . I am a solicitor, at 2, Guildhall Chambers—having known Grey's family many years, I lost sight of Grey till about two years ago—his family are highly respectable—I met Grey accidentally in the City—I asked him for his welfare; he said he was doing very well indeed, and had got a boarding-house at the West End, and had had it two or three years, and that if the house was twice as large he could more than fill it, he had to take his meals in the kitchen, and had lodgers all over the house—he said it was in St. Stephen's Road—three weeks or a month later he called and said he had taken a good large house in Bessborough Gardens, which would suit him admirably for a boarding-house, and would I be a reference—I said "If I can give you a helping hand I will with pleasure"—a fortnight or three weeks after that he called again, and said he had taken another house—I said "What, have you given the other one up then?"—he said "Oh no"—I said "Do you intend to keep on the two? if you do there will be the furniture, where is that to come from? you will want furniture for a second house"—he said "Oh, a gentleman is going to join in the business with plenty of means to furnish, we shall be able to do well together," as they would take the overflow of the other house—he spoke of 2, Bessborough Gardens, and 66, Gloucester Street, Pimlico—I did not authorise him to refer to me in respect of the second house—I have only answered one letter for reference—I knew nothing of what was going on.

Cross-examined by MR. OVEREND. I only gave one letter of reference, a gentleman called on me—I never went to St. Stephen's Road.

CHARLES FLOYD . I am a grocer, of 182, Fulham Road—I supplied groceries to the name of Grey, at 66, Gloucester Street, Pimlico, between 14th and 19th April, 1884, to the value of 6l. 15s.—I was not paid.

Cross-examined by MR. OVEREND. I never saw Grey—no one called at my shop to tell me not to send any more goods to 66, Gloucester Street, ordered by a Mr. Jennings.

Re-examined. A man-servant and maid-servant in the house gave the orders—I saw them once—I could not recognise them—I was recommended by the next-door people to supply goods to them; they said they must be good people as they dealt with Mr. Jarvis, who was a most particular landlord, and it was owing to the house being let to them that I parted with my goods.

JAMES SWEETMAN . I am a clerk to Messrs. Williams, blind manufacturers, of 26, Jubilee Place, Chelsea—about 10th April, 1884, Grey called and said he had taken a house, 66, Gloucester Street, and wanted it

fitted up with blinds, and he wanted me to go and take the measurements—when I went Thomas Williams opened the door—I took the measurements—I supplied the blinds in about a week—the amount was 17l. 5s.—Grey sent Williams round to me about a fortnight after the blinds were fixed for the amount, and saying he wished to pay it—I had not the account made out, and I promised to send it, which I did the next day—we never had the money—the next we heard was that Grey was at Holloway Gaol—we trusted Grey owing to the respectability of the house and his appearance, but it was to be for cash.

Cross-examined by MR. OVEREND. I never asked for the money in that short time—no one who succeeded Grey paid us.

GEORGE DERBY OSTERFIELD . I am constable of Paddington parish, in which St. Stephen's Road is situated—I took Grey into custody on a warrant for non-payment of rates of a house in St. Stephen's Road—I found him at 2, Bessborough Gardens on 22nd April, 1884—I left him at Holloway Gaol.

DAVID CAMPBELL MARTIN . I am a builder, of 202, Clapham Road—in September, 1884, I had a house 40, Nelson Square, Blackfriars Road, to let—Sidney called on me and represented himself as a retired naval officer, giving his address as 2, Bessborough Gardens—he said he lived in the house with Mr. Grey, who was the landlord, and that he paid for half the house, as he would pay for the house in Nelson Square—owing to the lease expiring I wanted to receive the rent monthly—he said his income being quarterly he should prefer it quarterly—I asked him for references, and he named Grey and a Mr. Baystable—I wrote and got these letters, one from Grey, with a monogram on the top (Both of 9th May, and speaking in similar high terms to the other letters)—on September 15th I received from my daughter the agreement (produced), signed as it is now (Of 15th September, 1884, rent 55l., payable quarterly)—he took possession—I gave him notice that I should call on a particular day for the first quarter's rent due Christmas—I did not get my rent—I gave him notice to quit in March—I got this reply of 21st June (Asking the witness if he would retain the lodgers to write by return of post)—on 25th June possession was given to me—I employed Morgan, a broker, who got no money; there was nothing to distrain upon, and the house was all let out to lodgers.

Cross-examined by Sidney. The house was put in repair before you saw it—I did not arrange to do anything to it afterwards—I had been acting as agent for the house some time—you wrote me that the superior landlord had been, but that had nothing to do with me or you either—I did no repairs while you were there; you agreed to do all necessary repairs inside—you did not write me that the drains were out of repair, and that it was a dangerous structure—I had a letter to say you would give up possession according to my notice—the superior land-lord was annoyed at my letting to you—it was let to the Rev. A. B. Gordon, and I as agent let it to you on the understanding that I should hand it over to you at the expiration of his tenancy, but the landlord refused to take you, and we had to hold the house on—six months' rent is due to me—I never had any account of yours—I have had several applications for your debts, and among them the tax collector.

Re-examined. I saw nothing that was done, except a lock put to the parlour door—I gave him six months' notice to go out.

CHARLOTTE GROSVENOR . My husband's name is John—he is a hatter—on 29th December, 1884, I took three rooms in 43, Nelson Square, at 10s.

a week—Sidney was the occupier of the house, and Grey was a lodger for a short time—their wives lived with them—Williams was there frequently during the time I was in the house from December to June, several times in the day sometimes—I paid my rent to Mrs. Sidney generally, and Mr. Sidney sent for it until the last two or three weeks, when I think Mrs. Sidney sent—no repairs were done to my knowledge.

Cross-examined by Sidney. I was ill some of the time—work might be done in the house and I not be cognisant of it—nothing was done to the ceilings of the rooms I occupied.

Cross-examined by MR. DILL. Williams is the second man from the end—I did not see Mrs. Williams there (Dundas)—I do not know her.

JAMES STEGGALL . I am manager to Messrs. Rogers, Chapman, and Thomas, house agents, of 50, Belgrave Road—I act for the landlord of 47, Sutherland Street—in September, 1884, I got a letter and wrote a reply, and received two other letters. (References.) After which an agreement was drawn up which was signed and returned to me—we desired to have the rent in advance—Cramer took possession. (The agreement was between Mr. Jewell and Cramer for letting 47, Sutherland Street from September 29th, at 63l. per year. ) I never got any rent—I applied for it at Christmas—Mr. Jewell put in a distress.

Cross-examined by MR. KISCH. Cramer did not spend money in doing up the house—the house was tilled with lodgers, and Cramer occupied the kitchen—I received no moneys from the lodgers—when I applied for the rent I received a reply that Cramer was out of town and on his return he would call, but he never did.

GEORGE PROUTING JEWELL . I am the owner of 47 and 51, Sutherland Street—about Christmas, 1883, I called for the rent—on 24th March, 1884, I put in a distress—it realised 11s., which was about 18s. minus the expenses—in November, 1881, I let 61, Sutherland Street to Isett—he agreed to give me 6l. 10s. for a portion of the quarter—Isett gave me these two references; he said lie had been a buyer in one of the stores. (References produced, one signed "Benjamin Lewisham" and the other "H. R. Mountford.") On 8th May I got the 6l. 10s. for the portion of rent due from November to Christmas; that is the only money I received—I saw Mountford at the house, and he came to my house several times—I took him to be Isett's father—I got possession; I told Isett he could go, and he went out between Lady Day and Midsummer—after Cramer was in custody his wife brought me the keys and wanted me to give a receipt for all rents—in rent, damage, and expenses I lost nearly 100l.

MR. KISCH here stated that Cramer admitted that he was guilty.

GEORGE LUCAS . I trade as Lucas and Co., British Publishing and General Agency, Trinity Street, Borough—in December, 1884, I got an order for a Bible in the name of Cramer; the value was three guineas—I delivered it at 47, Sutherland Street—on 7th January, 1885, Sidney called and said he was a friend of Cramer's; he had seen and liked the Bible, and would like one on the same terms delivered at 40, Nelson Square—I produce the order tilled in by me and signed by Sidney in my presence—Sidney said he was a retired sea captain—I only got his first deposit, 5s.—I have seen neither of the Bibles since—I have called dozens of times for it.

Cross-examined by Sidney. I have travellers in books who go from

house to house—you did say you were waiting to get some money out of Chancery—you did not pay me.

ELIZABETH HOWE . I am the manageress of the Victoria Wine Company, Limited, at their branch, 131, Lupus Street, Pimlico—on 23rd December, 1884, Mrs. Isett came and ordered a guinea case of wine, to be sent to 51, Sutherland Street—she said, "Send the bill, and we will pay for it on delivery"—we do not give credit—I sent the goods and the bill by Frank Burton—Burton returned with an order for two dozen of beer, 5s. and 4s. for the bottles—I added that to the bill, and sent the boy to get the whole of the money—we are not allowed to give credit, and I have paid my employers for the wine—I went to the police-station about it the same night—5s. was afterwards sent by a boy.

Cross-examined by MR. PARKES. Mrs. Isett has been to my shop on several occasions and paid for what she has had—I told the detective it was a servant-girl about 17 who came, and I believe it was the girl who gave the order for the guinea hamper—I did not know there were any lodgers who kept servants—I said it was a young person about 18, as near as I can remember, who came.

Re-examined. Mrs. Isett came into the shop several times afterwards, and I had the impression it was the same person—also her husband came and told me to send for the bottles and I should be paid—I sent for them, but I could not get the money—he said he would pay.

By MR. PARKES. Isett might have said "You will be paid," or "I will pay you," I do not remember.

FRANK BURTON . I was errand boy to the Victoria Wine Company in Lupus Street, Pimlico, in December last—a day or two before Christmas last I was sent to 51, Sutherland Street with a hamper and instructions to bring back the money—I saw Mrs. Isett; I told her I had brought the wine and I wanted the money, and I put it in the passage for her, when a man called from downstairs and said they wanted a dozen of ale and a dozen of cooper—Mrs. Isett told me to go back and get the beer—I went back for the beer—I saw Sidney at the door; I told him I had brought the beer and wanted the money—he put the beer in the passage and shut the door in my face saying, "Oh, that will be all right, if the lady does not come round I will pay myself"—I got the bottles back—Isett said hi