Old Bailey Proceedings.
22nd June 1885
Reference Number: t18850622

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Old Bailey Proceedings front matter.
22nd June 1885
Reference Numberf18850622

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Sessions Paper.








Short-hand writers to the Court,








Law Booksellers and Publishers.



On the Queen's Commission of



The City of London,





Held on Monday, June 22nd, 1885, and following days.

BEFORE the RIGHT HON. ROBERT NICHOLAS FOWLER, M.P., LORD MAYOR of the City of London; the Hon. Sir JOHN CHARLES DAY , one of the Justices of Her Majesty's High Court of Justice; Sir THOMAS GABRIEL , Bart., and DAVID HENRY STONE , Esq., Aldermen of the said City; Sir THOMAS CHAMBERS , Knt, Q.C., M.P., Recorder of the said City; JOHN STAPLES , Esq., HENRY AARON ISAACS , Esq., and PHINEAS COWAN , Esq., other of the Aldermen of the said City; Sir WILLIAM THOMAS CHARLEY , knt., Q.C., D.C.L., Common Serjeant of the said City; and ROBERT MALCOLM KERR , Esq., LL.D., Judge of the Sheriffs' Court: Her Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer, and General Gaol Delivery, holden for the said City, and Judges of the Central Criminal Court.

JAMES WHITEHEAD , Esq., Alderman,









A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—a dagger (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoner's age.


OLD COURT.—Monday and Tuesday, June 22nd and 23rd, 1885.

Before Mr. Recorder.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-599
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour; Imprisonment > hard labour

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599. JAMES FORBES (42) and JOHN HENRY GARDNER (28) were indicted for conspiracy to defrand their creditors.


appeared for Forbes, and MR. MONTAGU WILLIAMS for Gardner.

CHARLES L'ENFANT . I am a clerk in the London Bankruptcy Court—I produce the proceedings in the bankruptcy of James Forbes—he is described as trading as Jones and Forbes—the statement of affairs is signed by James Forbes—the date of the petition is 20th September, 1884, and the receiving order 26th September, 1884—he was adjudged bankrupt—on 3rd November, 1884, Robert Crossthwaite was appointed trustee, and the petition was presented by him—the gross liabilities in the statement of affairs is 23 571l. 15s. 11d., and the gross assets 4,818l.—he states the deficiency to be 14,243l. 4s. 3d.—I find on list K, "Losses incurred on transaction with Bloomfield and Co., 6,161l. 19s. 11d."—Forbes was publicly examined on 7th November and 28th November, 1884, and 23rd January, 1885—I also produce the file of proceedings in bankruptcy of Robert Bloomfield and Co.; it is a petition of Robert Bloomfield, dated 6th November, and was filed on the 7th—he was adjudged a bankrupt on 27th December, 1884—Mr. Robert Crossthwaite was appointed trustee on 19th December—Gardner was sworn and examined in Bloomfield's bankruptcy on 3rd February and 2nd March, 1885.

GEORGE BLAGRAVE SNELL . I am one of the official shorthand-writers to the Court of Bankruptcy—on 28th November, 1884, I took shorthand notes of the examination of the defendant James Forbes, and I took further notes of his examination on 23rd January, 1885, and have made transcripts of my notes, which are now on the file—on 3rd February, 1885, I also took notes of the examination of the defendant Gardner, and

again on 2nd March, and have made transcripts, which are on the file; they are correct. (These were put in and read in part.)

WILLIAM LELLYETT . I am manager of the West Brighton branch of the Capital and Counties Bank—I became manager on 14th February, 1884—at that time I knew nothing of Gardner, Forbes, or Bloomfield—I first knew Forbes in June, 1884, when he and Gardner came into the office together—at that time I might have heard there was such a firm as Bloomfield and Co. in Brighton—I might have heard the name mentioned, but I had no business connection with them—Forbes was spokesman in the presence of Gardner—they wished to open a general account with a line of discount—I said it was not usual, without an introduction; Forbes then said that his Scotch bankers would write a letter of introduction if I wished it—I am not certain whether it was at that interview or the next that he said "he" or "we are doing an extensive business in Brighton"—the account was to be opened in the name of Jones and Forbes, and their places of business were Conway Street and Aldrington Basin, where they had stock and saw-mills; they are places in Brighton—he said they would require bills discounted—no business was done then—I waited until I heard from the Scottish bank, and not hearing from them I was not satisfied, and saw the prisoner Gardner again—I don't think I saw Forbes, Forbes was there on the 16th; I said that I must write again, it was not quite satisfactory—I asked him what amount of stock he had there, and he said "I should think 1,000l.," and referred to Gardner, and he said "Yes, quite that"—he said that Gardner was his agent or manager there—ultimately the account was opened—Gardner signed, Forbes wrote an authority for me to honour Gardner's signature—this is it (produced)—to the best of my belief the body of it is written by Gardner. (This gave Gardner authority to draw bills and cheques.) The account was open for about six weeks, and during that time over 5,000l. passed through the bank—this is our pass-book—these three letters (E, F, and G) are in Gardner's handwriting, and enclosed monies and bills—our bank is a creditor on Forbes's estate for about 673l.—Gardner transacted all the business with me during the whole time the account was open, paying in and drawing out—the indebtedness is in respect of bills discounted or dishonoured—this bill for 90l., dated 5th July, 1884, payable to T. P. Harker, is filled up and signed by Gardner, and was paid by our bank.

Cross-examined by MR. ROLLAND. We received these two letters from the Scotch bank in answer to our inquiries. (These were dated 16th and 25th June, 1884, and expressed confidence in Jones and Forbes, who had kept an account there for 14 years.) The extent stated in my letter to the Scottish Bank was 1,500l.—I mentioned that sum because they asked for a loan and discount at over 1,000l., and I wanted information as to the 1,500l.—the words that Forbes used in June, 1884, were not "I have a large quantity of timber at West Brighton"—he mentioned stock, and he mentioned some place where I might see it, there was no concealment—the 5,000l. is partly made up of dishonoured bills in the last day or two, the 260l. is not included in that total—this cheque of 1st August for 450l. was dishonoured, and also the one for 2nd August for 200l., and also on 6th for 200l., in all about 1,000l.; they were re-credited and passed through the account—apart from the cheques that were paid in within the last day or two the account would be equal to something over

4,000l.; we proved for 673l.—I am not aware that I said that we expected to lose a little over 200l., it depends on what we recover on the bills—I should think we shall lose about 250l., or something like that, that is including the dividend.

ROBERT CROSSTHWAITE . I carry on business at 24, Upper Thames Street, also at Stockton and Falkirk as iron founders—I was a creditor of Jones and Forbes in September, 1884, of about 3,060l.—I had known Forbes for a good many years before, and have done business for the firm of Jones and Forbes for about nine or ten years—I have been appointed by the Court of Bankruptcy trustee of the estate of Bloomfield and Co., of Brighton, and also of the estate of Jones and Forbes, and as such I have come into the possession of a large quantity of correspondence passing between Gardner and Forbes, and Forbes and Gardner, and I have gone through most of them—I remember Forbes coming to me on the 26th, at that time he was indebted to my firm between 2,000l. and 2,500l. I should think—I recollect his sending me on that occasion some bills of exchange, and amongst them was this one (produced), drawn by Jones and Forbes on Bloomfieid and Co. for 82l. 16s. 7d.—I had heard prior to that something about Bloomfield and Co., in consequence of which on seeing the bill I spoke to Forbes about them—I asked him if he had any connection with them, and he said "No, nothing further than doing business"—I asked him if they were all right—he said yes, that Mrs. Bloomfield had a considerable amount of money in the business, and the statements about Gardner being a rogue were not true—I had mentioned Gardner to him, and he said he was simply manager—I had been introduced to him some time previous to that by Forbes—he said that he had always found Gardner an honest man—he asked me to give him cash for the bills or exchange cheques with him, which I refused to do—I asked him on whom they were drawn; I said "Are these customers of yours?" and he said yes, they were all for goods sold and delivered—I ultimately gave him cash for some of them a few days afterwards—I charged him our bank rate—he had altogether about 400l, part then and part afterwards, and some before—these (produced) are two of the bills he gave me, and these other two were sent down to the foundry to my brother at Stockton—the two bills given to me were dishonoured among others—I have only got a shilling in the pound out of Forbes's estate—I discounted a bill he gave me drawn on Bloomfield and Co. for 82l. 16s. 7d., and I discounted others which have been refused—I asked him in the ordinary way how he was getting on, he said very well, that his sales up to that time of the year had been 56,000l., that he had made upwards of 30 per cent, profit on some wood, and that next year he expected to be able to pay half cash and half bills instead of all bills for everything he had, and the year after that cash for everything—the reason given by him why he wanted these bills discounted was that his bankers did not give him any accommodation for discounting the bills, and some money that he had borrowed from a Mr. Ross had got a few days behind in the interest, that Mr. Ross had kicked up a row about it; and he said "D—it, I am not going to stand it," and I wrote him out a cheque for the whole amount with interest, about 2,000l.—he said he had also bought a large quantity of wood at a sale, and he had made 30 per cent. out of that, and he wanted to clear it—he further told me that he had between 2,000 and and 3,000l. of undiscounted bills in his pocket, and that if his bankers

would only give him anything like reasonable facilities he would be able to pay me now cash for everything he had—after that conversation I came to an arrangement with him about a further supply of goods—I considered he was doing very well to be able to pay from 2,000l. to 3,000l.—I believed his statement, and allowed the account to increase, but if I had known he had anything to do with Gardner I would not have done it—he got goods after that roughly to the amount of about 2,000l.—I have been paid nothing for that—he is now credited to our firm in about 3,060l.—Mr. Ross is now proving on the estate for1,400l.—there is a proof on the file, it is at my office in the safe—I took possession of all papers and documents, both Bloomfield's and Forbes's, all that I could find✗—among Bloomfield's papers I found this book hid away—the words at the top of the receipt, "For Mrs. Kate Gardner," are in Gardner's handwriting—that was found in one of the places to which they had removed them, one of the houses standing in the name of Mrs. Gardner, an empty house—I found a sack load of them there—among the papers was found this paper in Gardner's handwriting (Relating to the purchase of houses by Mrs. Gardner)—I also found this press copy of a letter, the body of which is in Gardner's handwriting—I have carefully examined the books of Bloomfield and Co., and all the papers, and there is no account in any cash book or ledger of any account with Mrs. Kate Gardner, nor in any of the books of Jones and Forbes—I have not been able to trace any record of any of these transactions in the books—among the papers I found this letter from Bloomfield and Forbes, dated 28th May, 1884, signed by Gardner—it is on the usual printed paper of Bloomfield and Co.—it mentions the names of Gear, who is the Scotch Bank manager, Sheldon, who is a man at Brighton, and Gray, who is manager of the London and Counties Bank at Brighton—it is signed "J. H. Gardner"—I also found this letter of 1st June from Forbes to Gardner, and one from Gardner to Forbes among Forbes's papers—there are a mass of papers—this refers to Rennie, who is Forbes's nephew and clerk, and also to a code—I discovered a code at Gardner's and another at Forbes's—I found this policy of insurance on the Scottish Union in Forbes's desk when I broke into the office—it is dated 20th June, 1883, and is an insurance for 400l. upon the private dwelling-house and domestic offices at Cameron Villa, Hove—there is no disclosure of this policy or the property mentioned in it in Forbes's statement of affairs, and he denied at first that he had anything to do with it—there is a house in Church Street which stands in Mrs. Gardner's name—the house has not been given up to me—these two cheqnes were found amongst Bloomfield's papers that were hid away—I received them from his clerk—one is dated March 4th, 1884, for 5l. 6s. 4d., signed "R. Bloomfield and Co."—that is the only one I found wholly in Bloomfield's writing—this black cheque is signed by Bloomfield—I have compared those signatures with Bloomfield's signature to his petition, and they correspond—I have examined the accounts of the two firms—an accountant has also examined them independently—a claim was made on Forbes's estate by the Royal Bank of Scotland for between 6,000l. and 7,000l., plus the sum of 1,600l. guarantee, the nett amount would be about 5,000l., and between 6,000l. and 7,000l. for bills—that is a claim upon dishonoured acceptances—I have the proof—I found no account in the name of Bloomfield in Forbes's letters, and the same as to Gravatt, Schofield, Parker, and Gates—

Bloomfield had four ledgers with a page or two filled in in each—they are here—they were apparently quite new—there was also part of a cash book with about two or three pages in it, and a few other rough books containing accounts of goods sent out—these are the books (produced)—I know the house in which Gardner was living at Brighton when Forbes's petition was filed in September, 1884—it was a house of about 65l. a year, and perhaps 1,000l. to build—there was a lot of good furniture in it, some very massive—that was claimed by Mrs. Gardner—I have not been able to realise it on behalf of the estate—I couldn't get in—it has all been removed now—I made a demand for it—I have not been able to trace it yet—the house was a freehold—I think the mortgagee claims it now—I saw the man Bloomfield, who is now dead, not after I was appointed trustee—he was always supposed to be too ill to be seen—I saw him when we served him with a writ at Gardner's house—he was a poor, miserable old man—he had only got on a rough shirt, no coat or waistcoat, no tie—he looked very shabby and poor—Gardner was examined at a private sitting in the Bankruptcy Court at my instance before one of the Registrars—I took out three summonses for the attendance of his wife to be examined, but she always kept out of the way—I was not able to serve them—I spoke to Gardner about his wife's address, and he refused it—he refused to give me any information whatever, and I have not been able to find her—before Forbes's failure, and afterwards also, I spoke to Gardner, and asked if Forbes was a partner—at one time he said he was, at another time that he was not, and another time he said it was all Bloomfield's, and at another time it was all his—I made inquiries at the Hove Bank after the bankruptcy for the pass-book—Mr. Woodhams is manager—I found out through, the letters about Mrs. Gardner having an account there—neither of the prisoners told me anything about it.

Cross-examined by MR. ROLLAND. I have known Forbes about 13 years—I and my brother carried on business at Falkirk, where his offices are, for some time, till we built new works at Stockton—my brother now manages the works at Stockton, and I live and carry on the branch in London—we have done business with Forbes for about nine or ten years to the extent of 400l., 600l., or even 800l. or 1,000l. a month—I don't think it has ever been so high as 1,700l.—we supplied Jones and Forbes with goods from Falkirk, London, or Stockton—he paid cash first, and then, for the last five or six years, we have drawn bills against him—I don't think the bills could ever have been more than 5l. in excess of the goods—sometimes we stored goods ordered by them—there were no accommodation bills between us—there were no overdrawings in May, 1884, when the alleged interview took place—I dare say this bill of 4th October, 1883, at four months, for 487l. 12s. 3d., might be one, we got 400l. to meet it—it was not an accommodation bill, I never had such a thing—I had never overdrawn as against goods supplied to that extent—there were a large number of bills—I don't recollect specially the one of February, 1884, due on 9th June, for 472l.—I have not got my own books here—I have had notice to produce 5 1/2 tons of papers, and must be paid before I bring them—the bill-book is at Stockton—my brother, who carries on the works there, is here—I, or some one in our office, gave Mr. Barber, Mr. Forbes's London representative, money with which to take up the bill which fell due on 9th June, 1884, for goods sold and

delivered, so that it should not be dishonoured—he wanted money to meet it, and got it—I had not overdrawn to that extent on 9th June—it is a thing done many a time, if people cannot meet a bill, to give them money to do it—I recollect a bill in January for 563l.—I paid every penny of that in the ordinary way—he bought 1,000 stoves, and was selling under price—my discount was 35l., and he was taking 40l.—he said he could not sell them—we took them back, and he drew for the amount, and there was 500l. or something then—I gave an acceptance for the stoves we took back to prevent him spoiling the trade—it is not true that he paid for things he never had—we stored them in our factory as we made them, and they were included in the account—I can fix 26th May as the date Forbes brought the bill and had the interview, by the entry made as to the bills—he came several days afterwards—I would not give him cash for any of them till the 31st—I did not send the bills to my brother in Scotland—Forbes, I believe, sent a batch of bills to my brother in Scotland—my brother did not forward any of those to me—this 82l. bill was not one of them—the bill-book does not show he called, but there is an entry in it of the 26th May, and this cheque was drawn on the 29th—I have no account of Forbes calling on the 26th; I have my memory, it was not before the 26th—I had not known Bloomfield before then, I had seen Gardner before—it was not necessary to make inquiries about Gardner, everybody was saying bad about him—Forbes told me he was manager to Bloomfield and Co.—I had heard that on the 26th, the date of the interview—Forbes left some five bills with me; two had four months to run, the one for 80l. was one of them—I made inquiries of him about Bloomfield and Co.; he showed himself to be intimate with their affairs—he told me that Bloomfield had a lot of money in it, and that Gardner was a decent, honest man, and would not have failed if the bankers had not come on him—after I lent money I made further inquiries about Bloomfield and Gardner and Co.—if I had known Forbes was a partner in Bloomfield and Co. I would have trusted him, but would have reduced my trust—I was bound to trust him till he paid up—between 26th and 29th May he told me what he did about Gardner and Bloomfield and Co.—I have got all the books and papers I could, many were taken away—I have got 12 letter books—Forbes's late partner would not let me in the office, and kept me waiting, and sent a message that if I liked to wait he would come over—Forbes stayed in London doing the lardi-dardy—I could not get the keys from Forbes, nor from Jones or his nephew—they both treated me with the utmost contempt, and I could not get the keys—all the bills he left with me were dishonoured; he left five—the first I refused; I made inquiries about the others—the insurance policy refers to Cameron Villa—Forbes lived in Camden House—I heard that the equity of redemption in that house belonged formerly to Smale and Brinkhurst—I do not know that they owed Jones and Forbes between 1,000l. and 2,000l., and assigned it to them for the debt—I believe Gardner parted, before he handed these over to Forbes, with a lot of horses and things, and Forbes proved for the full amount—I traced one of those horses, a black one, to Falkirk, and a piebald pony to London—the house was built by Smale and Co.—Forbes took it over when Gardner failed, and then Forbes put it back again afterwards—I could not tell you the exact day it was assigned—some property in Church Street was assigned by Gardner—the cheque

relating to that was hid away in a bag with other things—Gardner had something to do with that; it was found among all the papers hid away—I cannot say if it was the ordinary way of business for Gardner to sign "pp. Jones and Forbes"—I have seen the cheques before, and I have seen Forbes's authority for him to sign—I dare say this bill is signed in the same way, as Gardner was in the habit of signing all bills at Brighton—there was a lot of that business going on—the Royal Bank of Scotland held bills amounting to 6,000l. or 7,000l.—that is not the proof now—I am trying to reduce every claim; I have not reduced it by anything at present—the matter is in dispute as to the amount of making it up—I have not allowed it at anything—I shall not allow them to prove for 6,000l. or 7,000l. if I can help it; there is not that amount of assets—I have looked into Forbes's ledger account with Bloomfield and Co.—Gardner and Forbes sent some goods to them, and a lot of bills—Blandford's name occurs on the bills but not in the ledger account—Forbes supplied no goods to these people, but drew on them, and the names on the bills are in the ledger, but there is no account for them, and they were never supplied with goods—Forbes forwarded goods to Bloomfield, and Bloomfield and Co. supplied goods to the various people at Brighton in a few instances—if that had been the usual course Bloomfield ought to have drawn on the people—the acceptances were drawn by Jones and Forbes, and those people accepted them—there is no ledger account for those people—many of them gave bills for goods that were not supplied—Wakefield, Gravitt, and others got no goods—I don't know if the bills were forwarded to Falkirk; it is not the ordinary course of business—certain names occur in Forbes's ledger account with Bloomfield and Co.—I do not suppose that every bill Forbes had from Brighton was endorsed in the ledger account with Bloomfield and Co.—my inference from the correspondence and general observation is that these bills were drawn and sent to Forbes, who entered them if he was able to pass them off—Gravitt has gone away and cannot be found—there are none of the others here—Forbes's books I found regularly kept to some extent—it was a regular thing to draw bills on people having no account for them—Forbes had no ledger account—I don't know if this book was kept by Gardner at Brighton—I have got Bloomfield and Co.'s account here—it commences as J. H. Gardner in September, 1883—on one side are goods and cash, and on the other credit by bills, Gates, Sheldon, Blandford, &c.—there is no ledger account for those people—goods sent to Brighton were invoiced to Bloomfield and Co., not to customers—the customers paid for these in bills, but if Bloomfield and Co. had the goods he should have drawn the bills—it was done to have something to fall back on—it enabled Forbes to discount them at the bank, and send the money to Gardner, and to defraud his creditors—I believe Rennie kept the books—the books are so well kept from 1883 to September, 1884, that they do not disclose what they should—the letter of 27th September, 1883, only refers to bills drawn on four customers.

Cross-examined by MR. WILLIAMS. I am trustee in Bloomfield and Company—the statement in Bloomfield and Company does not show a deficiency.

Re-examined. I have done my best to realise the assets of Bloomfield and Company, and have got in 1,300l. or 1,000l.—I anticipate getting very little more in—there is about 4,500l. deficiency—I have got in

about 2,400l. in Forbes's estate—I may get about 20l. for furniture, and there are a few accounts still—there will be a deficiency of about 1,300l.

EDWARD SAXBY WOODHAM . I live at 5, Clifton Street, Brighton, and manage the Hove Bank—in August, 1883, Bloomfield and Company opened an account at our bank—about June, 1884, Mrs. Kate Gardner opened an account at our bank—I have seen her come to the bank with Gardner—these are copies of our accounts with Kate Gardner and Bloomfield and Co.—in Kate Gardner's account she is credited on 9th June, 1884, with 120l. paid in, and in Bloomfield and Co.'s account I find they are debited with 120l. on the same date—it was merely transferred from one to the other, I think, at once—Gardner signed "pp. Bloomfield and Co." in our bank—we had his signature in our books as well as Bloomfield's—I only saw Forbes two or three times, about March or April, 1884—we are creditors in Bloomfield's estate for 150l. about, and on Forbes's estate for the same amount—we had bills for that amount.

Cross-examined by MR. WILLIAMS. I think the 120l. was transferred from Bloomfield's account to Kate Gardner's—I could not say positively.

Re-examined. On the same day 120l. was drawn out by Bloomfield and Co., under the signature of Gardner, and paid in the same day to the account of Kate Gardner.

WILLIAM HENRY CROSSLEY . I am a builder at Brighton—I knew Gardner before he failed in 1883—I first saw Forbes at Gardner's sale after the liquidation in 1883—I did a large business with Gardner before his failure in 1883—he had some bills running—he told me Mrs. Bloomfield had some money, and he was going to start the firm in the name of Bloomfield and Co.—I had some business transactions after it started—towards the end of 1883 I was in his or Bloomfield's debt to the extent of 400l. odd—I agreed to give him the equity over and above 700l. of two houses, Beaconsfield Villas, Preston—I sold them the equity of a piece of land at Burgess Hill for 200l. worth of material which I received—the land was conveyed to Mrs. Gardner—I received nothing from her—I had a conversation with Mrs. Gardner in September, 1884, about Mr. Buster—Mrs. Gardner had 220l. interest in some houses or land at Preston, and Foster was to have paid her this 200l., and she was to have assigned her interest to him—he was unable to do so owing to his failure, and I arranged to take 220l. worth of material, which Buster was to have supplied her with—Bloomfield was to buy the interest and pay for it in materials, instead of money—I bought the materials of Mrs. Gardner and paid her for them in bills—she was supposed to have drawn on me for 220l.—she did not draw for the whole of that amount, but Bloomfield or Forbes did—I gave 220l. worth of bills, but they were not all signed by Mrs. Gardner—this is one of them for 50l., drawn in October, 1884, on Messrs. Crossley; I paid it—this is another for 25l. against those goods, 13th October; I paid it—this is one drawn on me by Bloomfield and Co., for 72l., it is not Gardner's writing; I accepted it—that was for some slates I had in October, 1884; it has nothing to do with the 220l.—I am paying it (it was renewed at maturity) to Messrs. Brinley and Co., the slate people in King William Street, by 10l. a week instalments—I accepted this bill of 18th January, 1884, for 84l. 18s. 6d.—I received goods for it through Bloomfield and Co., and at the end of 1883 I owed them 420l.—an arrangement was made that I should help them renew bills, and this was renewed like that—it is drawn by Jones and Forbes—

I did not have an invoice from them—I had no account with them—I do not keep books, it is all ready money—I may keep a bill-book; I had no notice to produce it, and have not got it—I did not think it was important—I had a word with Bloomfield many a time, when I was there doing business with Gardner; he knew all the business—I preferred doing business through Gardner; I knew him—Bloomfield was Gardner's father-in-law—I knew he was engaged by Gardner—Bloomfield assisted in all the business—he may have been a retired gentleman for all I knew; he was a decent old gentleman, that was all I knew.

Cross-examined by MR. ROLLAND. My dealings were with Bloomfield and Co.—I ordered goods from time to time; they were supplied to me—so far as I knew they came from Falkirk to Bloomfield and Co., and from them to me—the orders I gave to Bloomfield and Co. amounted to several thousands—I sometimes gave bills in respect of the goods—I never signed bills in respect of goods I did not receive; every bill I signed I had goods for—Forbes was never present at any conversation I had with Gardner about some houses, and was no party to any of the arrangements I entered into with Bloomfield and Co. or Gardner.

BENJAMIN WAKEFIELD . I am a master house-decorator and general contractor—in May, 1884, I was engaged by Mr. Blandford to do some paper-hanging—I accepted this bill in consequence of what he said to me. (MR. CROSSTHWAITE was here recalled. He stated that this bill for 35l. 6s. 3d., dated 6th May, 1883, was drawn by Jones and Forbes in Gardner's handwriting, and signed by Forbes.) I received no goods or consideration for that—I could not pay it when it became due; I was ordered to do so by the County Court., and am now paying 15s. a month—I have known Gravitt, a bricklayer, as an employee and as a master-man—he used, occasionally to work for Blandford—I do not know what he got nor where he is—he built a couple of houses—I do not know his writing.

Cross-examined by MR. HOLLAND. I never saw Forbes till I saw him at the Mansion House.

JOHN GEORGE SHELDON . I am a builder at Brighton, and was a creditor under Gardner's liquidation in 1883 for about 600l.—shortly after that I had a conversation with Gardner about starting afresh—he said he was going to start a fresh business, and Mr. Forbes was going to help him, and he asked me if I would also help him by lending him 100l. or 200l.—I said I had no money to lend him, but ultimately I agreed to let him have two bills amounting to 100l. altogether—he introduced me to Forbes, who agreed to discount them for him—the firm he was starting was in the name of Bloomfield and Co.—he did not say who Bloomfield was, I inferred—I was on the committee of inspection in his liquidation—he said he could not trade in his own name, I knew that, and that was the reason he started as Bloomfield and Co.—shortly afterwards he told me that Forbes was a very wealthy man and was going to be at his back—I knew Bloomfield and the class of man he was—I knew he had been employed by Gardner up to the time of his failure as a servant—I did not know his wife—he was about the yard up to 1883—after the firm was started I bought goods of Gardner and paid some cash, some bills—many a time when he wanted money he would, ask me to sign a bill, and I would generally sign it for him under an agreement that I should have material for it some time or other—the bulk of the bills were drawn by Jones and Forbes, some of them by

Bloomfield and Co.—at Christmas, 1883, I had a rough balance-street drawn out between myself and Gardner or Bloomfield and Co., which showed they owed me about 550l.—an arrangement was made that I was to take the equity of a house in Connaught Road, Brighton, worth 450l., for about 140l., and he was to find me a mortgage for 550l.—it was a real house, not mortgaged before, but out of the freeholder's hands—he did not find a mortgage—I was to credit his account with 150l. and the difference, which would be 525l.—it came to this, that he was to transfer the equity of a house, to find the value up to 150l., and to make up the difference in materials—he did not find the mortgage; I have never received the materials or any payment on that—I am proving on the estate for about 600l.—when Forbes failed I was under acceptances for Jones and Forbes and Bloomfield and Co. about 3,200l. for current bills—about 2 600l. of that was drawn by Jones and Forbes from the Scotch Bank—I received about 1,500l. worth of goods for those acceptances—Gardner presented the bills for my acceptance—I have seen Forbes, but I have had no business transactions with him or goods direct from him, although bills were drawn in his name—all the goods I received through Bloomfield and Co.—I have seen Forbes in Bloomfield's office when I have been there for different things and about renewing bills—the agreement was that if I had not got the value of the bills in materials they were to be renewed until I did—I have spoken to Forbes about bills and to Gardner in his presence—I have known Gardner ask Forbes whether they could be renewed, and Forbes has said, "Yes, decidedly"—Gardner told me, not in Forbes's presence, at Christmas, 1883, that Forbes and he had entered into an arrangement that they should be partners as far as the timber and slate account was concerned—I asked Gardner whether he had told Forbes that he had overdrawn my account to that amount, and he said no, he had not told him, that Mr. Forbes was a rich man, and had about 10,000l. in the Kirkintilloch Ironworks, and some thousands in the Uphall Mineral Oil Company, and his salary was about 800l. a year—in May, 1884, Gardner told me he had entered into partnership with Forbes, and I made a valuation for the partnership of the different alterations at various premises, and delivered it to Gardner and Forbes together in their office—Forbes was to pay Gardner 600l. to become a partner, of which I received from Gardner 210l. in Forbes's acceptances as part payment of my account; they owed me more—in August, 1884, Gardner sent me over to my office three acceptances in Gardner's writing drawn by Jones and Forbes, with their signature, which I accepted and returned; they were overdrawn then; they were accommodation bills, and were to be renewed if I had not got the stuff for them—subsequently I saw Gardner—he borrowed three cheques from me to the amount of over 300l., and also drew accommodation bills to the amount of 500l. in the name of Jones and Forbes, which I accepted—I was to have them renewed until I got value for them—Gardner said Forbes would be all right in a day or two, and that would be the last bills they would require—I saw Forbes some time afterwards; I did not speak to him about the bills nor about what Gardner had said—he had not failed then—Forbes said he could not renew them and I should have to pick them up; I had to do so—that was before his bankruptcy—I went to the bank at Falkirk—I had to pick them all up.

Cross-examined by MR. HOLLAND. As a builder I require building materials, and I ordered them from Bloomfield and Co. from time to time—not one twentieth of the goods were forwarded from Jones and Forbes, in Scotland, to Bloomfield and Co., who delivered them to me—they came direct from Bloomfield and Co., who had a large stock—in respect of these goods Jones and Forbes drew a bill which I accepted—sometimes an order amounted to 300l., or 400l., or 1,000l.—I should think from June, 1883, to Sept., 1884, I ordered about 4,000l. altogether—in respect of all I gave bills or cheques—I met all the bills when I had value for them—sometimes I would order goods which were not supplied, but in respect of which I had given bills—the bill was to be renewed in case the goods were not supplied—the bills were forwarded from Bloomfield and Co. to Jones and Forbes, in Scotland, and were discounted at the Falkirk Bank—I did not know that that bank made inquiries of the Brighton Bank, and got most favourable answers, as to my standing—I went to the bank at Falkirk and saw Jones and Forbes's position there—there was no concealment on Forbes's part—I saw his place of business and was free to judge of his standing—I arranged with the bank, explaining the position to them as to the payment of the bills—about May, 1884, I valued the premises at Brighton—I was creditor on Jones and Forbes's estate to the extent of about 1,500l.

Cross-examined MR. WILLIAMS. Gardner told me he proposed to carry on the business in the name of Bloomfield and Co. because he had been bankrupt as Gardner—I saw no harm in that, and offered to assist him.

Re-examined. I arranged with the bank that I should pay 1,500l. off the bills, because that was the value of the goods I had received—it amounted to 7s. 6d. in the 1l. on the gross amounts of the bills—the bank it going for the balance on Forbes's estate—all I have proved for is 1,500l., and they freed me from further liability—Bloomfield was in my credit for about 700l.—Crossthwaite has made me pay 20s. in the 1l. on all bills held by him.

CHARLES BLANDFORD . I live at 11, Clarendon Villas, Aldrington, and am a builder—I have known the prisoner Gardner some years, and had business transactions with him—I had a transaction with him in March, 1884—I exchanged some land with him—I also assigned to Mrs. Gardner 17, Colston Villas, Hove, and six houses in Clarendon Road, Hove—I had some building transactions with him, and I had certain goods in exchange for property—I had more goods than the exchange warranted, and a bill was drawn for the amount, about 130l.—afterwards I entered into a contract with Bloomfield and Co. to build three houses at a price, they to find the materials—after I had had some materials they proposed drawing on me for them—the bills were on Jones and Forbes—Gardner drew the bills, but they were signed Jones and Forbes—the whole amount from March to July was, I should think, 1,800l.—I built the houses, and after they were built they fell into the ground landlord's hands.

Cross-examined by MR. ROLLAND. The bills spoken of were given in respect of building materials, altogether amounting to 1,800l.—they were drawn by Gardner in the name of Jones and Forbes, and they were then sent by them to Falkirk—I did not see the bills drawn in every case—they were filled up in my presence—I used to give the bills and order the goods—I might have ordered the goods first and given the bills afterwards—about 1,400l. to 1,500l. worth of materials were supplied—I never had

any cash at all—I should say one half of the bills had been renewed—Jones and Forbes from time to time retired these bills; they sent money to the bank at Brighton for them to be met, and I gave them fresh bills afterwards—Mr. Crossthwaite has sued me upon those bills for 100l.—I have not paid him anything, I have not the money to do so; I have property if they like to take that—the amount of bills upon which I am now liable given by Bloomfield and Co. and Jones and Forbes is about 1,800l.—I have not paid any portion of those bills.

Cross-examined by MR. WILLIAMS. I had goods to the amount of about 1,500l.—I had an undertaking from Jones and Forbes that any bills were to be renewed—I don't know that I had 1,630l. worth of goods—I have never had the account—I won't say I had not, I don't think I had 40l. in cash; I don't know one way or the other.

By the COURT. I was building houses for Bloomfield and Co., and bills for 1,800l. were drawn by Jones and Forbes, and accepted by me—the building materials were supplied by Bloomfield and Co.—the bills have not been paid.

THOMAS PARKINSON HARKER . I am a solicitor of New Road, Brighton✗—I know both the defendants—I knew Gardner before he filed his petition in 1883—I acted as his solicitor in that matter, and was appointed trustee under that liquidation—there was a first dividend of tenpence in the pound declared—there has been no other—I knew of the establishment of the firm of Bloomfield and Co. afterwards, and about three weeks after I was introduced by Gardner to Forbes—I took out this fire policy in the Scottish Union in the name of Forbes on some hous he was building, Cameron Villa—no one instructed me to do so—I did it on my own instructions—Gardner told me that Mrs. Gardner had agreed to exchange two pieces of land at Buckstead for the equity of a house at Portishead, and he instructed me to prepare the necessary conveyances carrying out the transaction—I did so—he also instructed me to convey a piece of land at Burgess Hill from the vendor to Mrs. Gardner—that was done—the next transaction with Mrs. Gardner was a contract with Bloomfield for the sale to him of the equity in the land at Burgees Hill for 650l., in exchange for which he was to take the equity in some houses and a workshop at West Brighton—the workshop was to be conveyed to Sheldon, as there had been a resale to him at an increased price—that Mrs. Gardner sold her interest in the houses at Portishead to Mr. Homewood, and in exchange for that she took the equity in four houses at Preston Park, near Brighton—there was also a contract in reference to four houses in Islingworth Street, but that was never completed—Mrs. Gardner never carried out the contract—there was a transaction in which Forbes and Bloomfield together agreed to purchase from a Mr. Buster the equity in a piece of land at Preston Park for 500l.—part of that 500l. was to be paid by their procuring from Mrs. Gardner an assignment of a contract which she had entered into with Forbes for 200l., the other 250l. was to be paid by goods—a deed was drawn up by Gardner's instruction for the purpose of being executed—Forbes afterwards signed it—it was executed at the office of the vendor—the contract was never carried out, and the deed remains in the possession of the vendor—no money was paid on account that I know of, or any goods given—I was Bloomfield in the transactions—he signed all the deeds of property conveyed to him—after Bloomfield and Co. was started I knew that Gardner

was an undischarged bankrupt—I know that an application was made for his discharge in September, 1884—it was adjourned—he has not obtained it—I believe it was refused—Forbes was a creditor under Gardner's liquidation in 1883 for between 300l. and 400l., I think—this cheque for 90l., payable to myself or order, was not given to me—I know nothing of it except what I have heard here—it has "Church Street House" on the top of it—I was at that time carrying out an assignment of the lease of a house in Church Street to Mr. Gardner from a man named Ladder—90l. was to be the consideration for that assignment—it was carried out by me—the cheque is drawn by Jones and Forbes, "per procuration J. H. Gardner," and is dated 5th July, 1884—I do not know that Mrs. Gardner is still in possession of the lease of that house—I am not acting for her.

Cross-examined by MR. ROLLAND. Gardner was in a large way of bnsiness before his failure—I believe he had a good connection with builders and others—I do not know that Forbes opposed Gardner's application for his discharge in July, 1883—I believe he did later on—I took out the fire policy on Cameron Villa on my own responsibility, I thought the property should be insured—Smale and Brinkhurst had an equity of redemption on Cameron Villa—they were owing Jones and Forbes something like 150l.—Gardner assisted Jones and Forbes in trying to get payment, and failing in that, he obtained from Smale and Brinkhurst their interest in that house—it was afterwards assigned to Bloomfield and Co. some time in November, 1883.

Cross-examined by MR. WILLIAMS. I sometimes took instructions from Mrs. Gardner and sometimes from Gardner—I always looked upon Mrs. Gardner as my client—when she originally came to me she had property of her own—I fancy the house that was transferred to Bloomfield and Co. fell into the hands of the ground landlord.

Re-examined. When I say that Mrs. Gardner had some property, that was after the failure of Gardner—it was two pieces of land at Buckstead, near Brighton—I don't know how or when she acquired it—I have seen money pass—Mrs. Gardner paid 81l. in cash in respect of the Church Street House—I saw no other money pass.

FREDERICK GEORGE CLARK . I am a chartered accountant—I was appointed trustee under Gardner's liquidation in 1883—the only dividend declared was tenpence in the pound—the liabilities were: creditors secured, 24,400l.: unsecured, 5,800l.; nominal assets, 1,280l.—Forbes was a secured creditor—he proved for 600l. after valuing his security.

RODERICK MCKAY . I am one of the firm of Roderick McKay and Co., chartered accountants—we were instructed by the solicitors conducting this prosecution to examine the books of Jones and Forbes, and Bloomfield and Co.—we have no connection whatever with either—I examined them, and made this report upon them. (This report was read by MR. GRAIN. ) I examined Jones and Forbes's books with reference to their account with Crossthwaite and Co., and am prepared to give the monthly balances appearing either for or against Forbes—there are overdrawings in two months, one for 400l. in August and September, 1884, and a trifling one before that—the overdrawing assumes that all the bills were paid—as to Bloomfield's books, I could make nothing out of them; they cannot be relied upon; they are not at all complete—Forbes's books were fairly kept—I think they were posted up to date.

Cross-examined by MR. ROLLAND. I have personally examined the books of Jones and Forbes—I suppose they were kept by a bookkeeper—all the transactions were apparently entered at the time—they had a good many accounts—I have not examined the amount of the turnover—I should not think it was 3,000 different continuous accounts—on 22nd December, 1883, there is an entry in the ledger debiting Bloomfield and Co. with 150l., and the word "security" is written over by the bookkeeper—that is debited to Bloomfield's account in the ordinary was—it appeared from my inspection of the books that as against all the cash held by Jones and Forbes to Bloomfield, there were bills and goods on the other side in the ordinary way—4,000l. odd is shown by Forbes's ledger as due from Bloomfield and Co. in August, 1884—there is nothing concealed there—all the bills appear in the ledger—the balance against Bloomfield and Co. appears to be 2,446l. from the books, but not in the statement of affairs—I think that amount should not have been transferred from the debit of Bloomfield and Co. to the debit of past due bills—the past due bills is a separate account in the ledger, the next page but one after Bloomfield's account—it is not in Forbes's handwriting—if Jones and Forbes and Bloomfield and Co. were partners, Forbes could not prove as against Bloomfield and Co. in competition with the other creditors—the names of the tradesmen appear in connection with the bills—there is no entry in the ledger of any account with the Capital and Counties Bank at Brighton—the bank pass-book would show all the transactions—we have traced the entries in Bloomfield's accounts of the moneys paid into the bank, and we have nearly traced them all—I saw an entry relating to an acceptance for 473l. 19s. due on 9th June, 1884—there is a debit to Crossthwaite and Co. on that day for that amount—at the end of June, 1884, that account was in credit, 1,933l., and at the end of May 1,830l.

Cross-examined by MR. WILLIAMS. I have not attempted to get any assistance from Gardner as to the books.

Re-examined. The bills drawn on Blandford and the different persons who have been named were drawn by Jones and Forbes—I found no debit and credit account as between them and Bloomfield in either set of books.

GEORGE ARTHUR FLOWERS . I am a solicitor, and clerk to the Megistrate at Steyning, near Brighton—in October, 1883, I acted for Mrs. Gardner in the purchase of two houses in Cowper Street, Hove—the purchase-money was 840l.—I think Mrs. Gardner gave me instructions—the houses were purchased and conveyed—the purchase-money was paid in her and my presence—she mortgaged the houses to a client of mine at the same time for 800l., and paid the balance and forfeit—that was the only transaction in which I acted for her—I acted for the vendors also in that transaction as well as others.

ALFRED PARKER . I am a journeyman carpenter in Buckingham Road, Brighton—I have known Gardner for some years—I knew him when he was carrying on business as Gardner and Co., and afterwards as Bloomfield and Co.—I have seen Forbes, but did not know him—I first became acquainted with him after Bloomfield and Co. was started—I have had bills drawn upon me and have accepted bills, not blank bills—I have purchased goods from Bloomfield and Co., large quantities, several thousand pounds' worth—I have been sued on bills for the last

12 months on these and other bills—in 1883 I was a builder in business for myself, and up to 12 months ago, things drifted, and I was sold up—I have renewed bills since I failed, but have not had new ones—I have had goods from Bloomfield and Co. since I was sold up—I can't say how much, about 200l. I should think would be the outside—there was a large amount of bills running at the time, I do not know how much I am under acceptance to Jones and Forbes—they tell me it is something like 1,500l., but I don't know.

Cross-examined by MR. ROLLAND. I was once a master builder, and as such I required timber, and went to Bloomfield and Co. for it, in the ordinary way—I had goods and signed bills against them—the bills did not in every case represent the goods I got—I suppose tho bills went to the Scotch bankers at Falkirk by their coming back when they were met—I believe sometimes the bills were retired by Jones and Forbes, and sometimes renewed—I never really failed—I owed several hundreds to Bloomfield and Co.—they were great friends to me—I had 50 or 60 houses standing.

Re-examined. I did not accept bills for Bloomfield and Co. to the amount of 1,500l. after I was sold up—I can't say for how much; I should think for about 1,000l.—that was bills renewed and bills drawn again for fresh stuff supplied.

Several witnesses deposed to the good character of Forbes.

FORBES— GUILTY.—Strongly recommended to mercy by the Jury and the prosecutors, believing him to have been led into the fraud by Gardner.Two Months' Hard Labour. GARDNER— GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-600
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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600. ELIZA BREWSTER (60), AGNES BREWSTER (28), and JOSEPH STAPLES (36) , Unlawfully obtaining by false pretences from Edward Frederick Skinner the sums of 1l. and 59l., with intent to defraud.

Other Counts for conspiracy.

MR. GRAIN Prosecuted; MR. GILL Defended.

EDWARD FREDERICK SKINNER . I am a steward on board a yacht at present at Southampton—on 11th March I saw this advertisement in the Daily Chronicle for the sale of a tobacco business—I replied to it, and the prisoner Agnes Brewster called on me in answer to it—she said the business belonged to her mother and she partly managed it—I asked her the length of the lease; she said she didn't know, but she knew it was for two or two and a half years for certain—I asked her about the takings; she said they were 10l. or 11l. a week, that they were paying 1l. a week rent, and four of them lived well upon it—I asked her the price; she said she didn't know, but Mr. Staples would meet me in two or three days—I received a letter and called at 196, Buckingham Palace Road, where Agnes Brewster introduced me to Mr. Staples, and to her mother and sister—he said the business was a fine thing—I asked him what he wanted for it—he said "60l."—I said I couldn't give that—he took me outside and showed me the looking-glasses and other things, and then we went into a public-house and had a glass of ale—I asked him the length of the lease; he said two years and over to run—I said "If you represent that I will see about taking it, but I can't give 60l.; I don't mind 50l., go in and see if they will take it"—he went in, and came back and said "They won't take 50l."—I said "You represent it

so well I will see about giving you 60l., but I have no deposit with me only 1l."—he said "That will do"—we went to the house again, and I saw all the defendants there—I asked Mrs. Brewster "Is it right what Mr. Staples has spoken about?"—she said "Perfectly," and upon that assurance I paid the 1l. deposit, and signed a paper to pay the other on Monday—I went on Monday and saw the defendants there again—I asked Staples to get the lease and all the papers ready, he said he would, and I arranged to come at 3 o'clock—I went there with my father at that time and asked Staples if he had got the papers ready; he said "Yes, this is what I have got"—he showed me a large document that he was reading out; this is it (produced). (This was a receipt for the 60l.) I paid the 59l. and got that receipt—I asked Mrs. Brewster if there was any loan or claim upon the place, and she said "No," and I asked again "Is there two and a half years to run on the lease?" and she said "Yes"—I asked where it was, and Staples said the landlord had got it to sign, and Mrs. Brewster said "Yes"—he said the landlord would renew the lease for me—they kept on putting me off about the lease—I gave them time to remove their goods, and as the last van was going away Staples called me down from the shop and told Mrs. Brewster to give me the base—she pulled it out of her pocket and gave it me—I didn't take a look at it at the time; this is it—the lease expires on 21st Nov. this year—if I had known that I would not have parted with my money—I have attempted to get a renewal of the lease, but have not been able—there is not much business doing there, I am just working it up—the house is to be pulled down in November—it belongs to a Mr. Westwood.

Cross-examined by MR. GILL. I knew this business when I was in the Army and Navy Club—I was there about five years ago, and used to go by the shop; it was an old established one, over 20 years—I didn't buy the business for the looking-glasses and fixtures, I bought it for the length of the lease, the stock was not worth 2l.—it was a confectioner's and newspaper shop as well as a tobacconist's—I found it was not in the flourishing condition they mentioned—I know now that Mrs. Brewster and her daughter had bought the shop through Staples; I didn't know it then—I afterwards saw Mrs. Brewster and told her that as I found she had only paid 30l. for the business and I had paid 60l., she ought to return me half of it; she didn't do so, she sent for Staples—I offered to take 20l. or 25l.—I didn't get it, and I took out a summons, as I had been deceived all through—Staples didn't tell Mrs. Brewster not to give me the money, he told me to do my worst—that was after I had taken out the summons—I made the bargain for the sale with all of them—I told Mrs. Brewster that Staples had driven a hard bargain with me.

ADAM HOWARD COLLISON . I am landlord of these premises—I granted this agreement to a Mr. Harvey—I know nothing about this endorsement on it between Webster and Staples—after Mrs. Webster was in possession she came to me and she said she had been taken in over it, that the business was very bad—Mrs. Brewster asked me if I would accept another tenant, as she could not pay the rent—I said I should not mind if the thing was done in a proper manner, if she found me a good tenant—I have no power to grant two and a half years' lease—my lease runs out in November.

Cross-examined. I have owned the shop for some time—I think West-wood

gave something like 110l. for it—that was before Mrs. Brewster went into it.

FREDERICK GEORGE COLLBECK . About Christmas Mrs. Brewster asked me if I knew any one who would buy the business—I said no, but if I did I thought the shortness of the lease would be an obstacle.

Cross-examined. A man named Westwood was in it before Mrs. Brewster—the reason she gave for selling it was that she didn't understand it and had never been used to it.


22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-601
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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601. JOHN DISNEY COOKE YARBOROUGH (36) PLEADED GUILTY to forging and uttering an order for the payment of 1,000l., and to stealing 1,000l. of George Causton and others, his masters.— Judgment respited to next Session.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-602
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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602. LEWIS RAWLINGS (25) to stealing four pieces of paper; also to forging and uttering an order for the payment of 12l. 10s. 6d., and to forging and uttering an order for the payment of 2l. 10s. 8d.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Six Months' Hard Labour. And

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-603
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceMiscellaneous > sureties

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603. JANE CARLIN (22) to feloniously forging and uttering a cheque for 15l. with intent to defraud.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor.— Discharged on her own recognisances.

NEW COURT.—Monday June 22nd, 1885.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-604
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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604. HENRY MARLER (22) PLEADED GUILTY to unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.— Twelve Months' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-605
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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605. AUGUSTUS QUAIFE** (20) to feloniously uttering counterfeit coin after a previous conviction.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Five Years' Penal Servitude.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-606
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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606. ALFRED EDWARD SUTTON (20) to stealing whilst employed under the Post-office a post letter and an order for 5s., the property of H.M. Postmaster-General.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Nine Months' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-607
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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607. THOMAS STRINGER (49) to stealing while employed in the Post-office a letter containing 24 postage-stamps and two postal orders, the property of H.M. Postmaster-General.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Eighteen Months' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-608
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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608. ROBERT DANCE (21) to stealing while employed in the Post-office a letter containing orders for 5s., 5s., 3s., and 1s., of H.M. Post master-General.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Five Years' Penal Servitude.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-609
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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609. EDWARD JAMES HUNT (18) to stealing while employed in the Post-office a letter containing three orders for 20s. each and one order for 3s., also a letter containing two orders for 20s. each, the property of H.M. Postmaster-General.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Twelve Months' Hard Labour.And

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-610
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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610. ALFRED FISHER (Soldier) (31) [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] to five indictments for forging and uttering receipts for 10l., 8l. 17s. 3d., 10l., 3l. 15s. 8d., and 30l. 1s. 10d., with intent to defraud H.M. Postmaster-General; also to obtaining by false pretences 30l. 1s. 10d., 28l. 13s. 3d., and 29l. 13s. 5d., with intent to defraud.— He received a good character.Two Years' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-611
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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611. THOMAS WILSON (49) , Feloniously uttering counterfeit coin.


CHARLOTTE READER . I am the wife of Richard Reader, and manage an eating-house in Warwick Lane, Newgate Street, for Mr. Collier—on 13th June, about 9 a.m., I served the prisoner with some tea and bread-and-butter, price 3d.—he gave a coin to the waitress, which she handed

to me—it was this bad half-crown (produced)—I gave it back to her, and she gave it back to the prisoner saying, "This is a bad one"—he said, "I have not any other money, only 2d.; will you take the bread-and-butter away?"—he put down 2d.—I gave him in custody with the coin—he said that he got it at a house in Covent Garden on the left-hand side, he said a public-house to the policeman.

JAMES TYRRELL (City Policeman 337). I was called, and Mrs. Reader had this coin in her hand—I said to the prisoner, "Do you know this is bad?"—he said, "I did not know it when I took it; I had it in change for a half-sovereign in a public-house in Covent Garden"—I said, "What public-house?"—he said, "I don't know"—I said, "Have you any more?"—he said, "No, I have no other coin but that"—I searched him at the station and found a farthing.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You paid for the tea out of the 2d.

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . This half-crown is bad; no one could handle it without seeing that.

NORAH ELLEN DONOVAN . I am a waitress at this eating-house—I served the prisoner with a cup of tea and some bread-and-butter, which came to 2d.—he gave me this half-crown (produced)—I thought it was bad and handed it to Mrs. Header, who gave it back to me, and I said to the prisoner, "It is bad; do you know where you got it?"—he said, "Yes, in a shop in Covent Garden"—I said, "This morning?"—he said, "No, the day before yesterday"—he paid for the tea and said that I had better take the bread-and-butter away, as that was all the money he had—I handed back the half-crown—he took it in his hand, looked at it, and put it on the table—I handed it to the policeman.

Prisoner's Defence. I know no more about the half-crown being bad than you do, gentlemen.

GUILTY . He then PLEADED GUILTY ** to a conviction at this Court is December, 1880, of feloniously uttering counterfeit coin.— Six Years' Penal Servitude.

NEW COURT.—Tuesday, June 23rd, 1885.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-612
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

612. WILLIAM BEHRING (21) , Feloniously uttering counterfeit coin.


SABINA BUTT . My husband is a tobacconist, at 115, Cornwall Road—on 22nd May, about 11.15, I served the prisoner with two twopenny cigars; he put down a half-crown—I told him it was bad—he said "Is it?" and took it back, and felt in his pockets, and found a penny, which he past down, and said "I will go and ask my mate for the other threepence"—I he left the cigars and went out—I tried the coin on a slate—I gave instructions to the boy, who brought him back in about five minutes, but I don't remember what passed, because I was so upset—this half-crown (produced) is like it, and it has the same feel.

EDWARD DURRANT . I am 15 years old, and am assistant to Mr. Butt—I was putting up the shutters and saw the prisoner go in and come out—Mrs. Butt spoke to me, and I followed him round Clydesdale Road for, I think, three minutes—no one was with him—I kept him in sight

the whole time; he was walking sharp—I pointed him out to a constable, who took him back to the shop, and I fetched Mr. Butts, and did not know what passed.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I did not hear the policeman speak to you, but I said to him "There is a man going up there who has been in at Mr. Butt's shop trying to pass bad money for some cigars.

SAMUEL ROSEWARNE (Policeman X 127). On 22nd May, about 11.20, I was in Colville Road, about 200 yards from Cornwall Road—Durant spoke to me, and said "This man has been trying to pass a bad half-crown," and in consequence of that I said to the prisoner "Have you been trying to pass bad money at Mrs. Butt's, 115, Cornwall Road?"—he first said "No," and in about two seconds "Yes"—I took him to Mrs. Butt, and asked her if he had been trying to pass a bad half-crown—she said "Yes"—the prisoner then put a good shilling on the counter, but I did not see him take it from his pocket—I then said "Where is the bad half-crown?"—he said "Here it is, I did not know I had it."

Cross-examined. When I stopped you I did not say "Where are the two cigars you have taken?" nor did you point to two cigars in the shop, and say "There are the two cigars I am accused of running away with."

JOHN H. BUTT . I went into my shop, and saw the prisoner there—my wife was rather excited, and I said "What is the matter?"—the said "This man has tried to pass a bad half-crown for two cigars, and pot down a penny, and said that that was all the money he had, and he was going to get threepence from his mate; he left the shop, and I sent the boy for a policeman"—I said to the prisoner "Have you anything to say?"—he said "I hope you won't charge me, it is very hard, I don't wish to be locked up all night"—the constable said "It is my duty to take you in charge"—I went to the station, and charged him.

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . I am examiner of coins to the Mint—this coin is bad—a silver coin being hard will grate on a slate.

The prisoner in his defence stated that he was tossing with some companions with a good half-crown outside the shop, and it was changed for a bad one, and when he went out to look for them they had gone.

EDWARD DURRANT (Re-examined). I was shutting up the shutters, but did not see the prisoner tossing with any one.

GUILTY . He then PLEADED GUILTY ** to a conviction at this Court in April, 1884, of feloniously uttering counterfeit coin.— Two Years' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-613
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

613. JOHN ROBERTS (38) and JOHN SMITH (42) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.


ELIZABETH UTTON . I am barmaid at the Globe, New Compton Street, Soho—on 12th May the two prisoners and another man came in for drink, Roberts ordered and paid with a shilling—I gave him the change, took it into the parlour, and found it was bad, but said nothing, as I was alone—Roberts and the other man went out, and Smith then called for some drink, and gave me a bad shilling—I went to fetch the other shilling; Roberts then came in, and I told them the shillings were bad, and said "You gave me one, and you gave me the other"—Smith said "I must have received it from the pawn shop; I pawned my jaket for a shilling"—he asked for his change—I said "You will get

no change from me"—they all three said that they must have got the money at a pawnshop, and one of them showed me some pawn-tickets—I sent for a constable.

Cross-examined by Roberts. The drink came to 5d., and your change was 7d.—I did not say that your shilling was bad, on account of being alone.

Cross-examined by Smith. The man who is not here called for drink first, Roberts second, and you third—the others went out, but you did not—there was a woman with me the first time, but she went upstairs to make coffee—I did not go to the till to fetch the shilling, it was in the bar-parlour—you showed me three shillings, and said that if I would send the boy with you you would show him the pawn-shop—you had plenty of chance to get away, but you stood there waiting for your change.

By the COURT. He did not offer me any of the three shillings; he wanted change for the bad shilling—Roberts had had his change—I cannot recollect what coin I took from the man not here—he left before the constable came.

HARRY GREENWOOD (Policeman E 555). I was called to the Globe and took the prisoners and received these two shillings—another man rushed out as I went in—I kept the door shut, sent for assistance, and took the prisoners to the station—they made no reply to the charge—Smith said at Marlborough Street that he got the money at a pawn-shop, he did not say where.

Cross-examined by Smith. I did not write down the address in a book—I saw the ticket there.

WALTER CUNNINGHAM (Policeman E 126). I assisted in taking the prisoners to the station, and searched them there—I found a sixpence and twopence in Roberts's trousers pocket, and on Smith three good shillings and a halfpenny—they had no pawn-tickets when I searched them

Cross-examined by Smith. It was a florin, a shilling, and a halfpenny that I found on you.

ELIZABETH UTTON (Re-examined). It was either Roberts or Smith who showed me the pawn-tickets, and Smith showed me the 3s.—it was a florin and a shilling.

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . These two shillings are bad, and from different moulds.

The Prisoners' Statements before the Magistrate. Roberts says: "I gave the barmaid a shilling, and it was an hour or so after that that she said she had taken a bad shilling from this man; she said she had more of them, and she put her hand in the till and took out another shilling." Smith says: "What the other prisoner has said is quite correct. I got the money from the pawn-shop, and told Policeman 555 where the pawn-shop was; I told him privately."

Roberts's Defence. The policeman has been to where I work, and got my character. I was with a man who works for the same firm an myself

Smith's Defence. If the man thought it was a bad shilling could not he have gone away when he went out. If I gave any of you gentlemen a bad shilling I should not come back.

W. CUNNINGHAM (Re-examined). I went to Roberts's employer, Mr. Hatfield, of King Street, Regent Street—he went to work there on 20th

April, and left off between 10 and 11 a.m. on 11th May, the day before he was arrested—the clerk said that he knew nothing against his character.

Smith. Here is the pawn-ticket—the police overlooked it. (This was dated May 12, for a coat pledged for 6s.)


22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-614
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

614. ARTHUR FREDERICKS (27) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.


HENRY HALL . I keep the Dock public-house, Battersea Park Road—the prisoner was a customer of mine—on 9th Kay he owed me 1s. 4d. and tendered me a half-sovereign—I tossed it up and said "What do you call this?"—he said "A half-sovereign"—I said "It is not worth 5s., in fact I would not give 5d. for it"—it did not ring, and the weight of gold was not there—I am in the habit of handling money—I asked him where he got it—he said that he was at a theatre the previous night, and as he came out he went to a public-house and changed a sovereign and got it in the change, and he could not give me another just then—I put it on the counter and he took it up—he returned and paid me between 11 and 12 o'clock.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You did not say that it was given to you as a good one in the Strand.

The Prisoner. I said "By the Adelphi Theatre," and I found out that it was a good one afterwards.

GEORGE ADAMS . I am a fruiterer, of 39, New Bond Street—on 26th May I served the prisoner with 2s. worth of oranges—he tendered a coin—I picked it up and said "What do you call this?"—he said "A sovereign; what is the matter with it?"—I said "I never saw a worse imitation in my life; have you any more money to pay with?"—he said "No"—I said "Where did you get it?"—he said "In change from a draper in Oxford Street, where I purchased some stockings"—I said "It is very strange you should have a sovereign in change, you must have changed a cheque or a note"—he said "I got it in change, and that is enough"—I gave him in charge with the coin—this if it—he mentioned Graves, a draper, near the Marble Arch—I do not know such a shop.

Cross-examined. You did not tell me that you changed a note—you did not say "I have no more money; I spent my last money buying a pair of stockings this morning."

WILLIAM FRITH (Policeman CR 14). I was called and said to the prisoner "Where did you get this sovereign from?"—he said "I got it in change in purchasing a pair of stockings near the Marble Arch, of Mr. Graves, a hosier"—I have made a careful search and cannot find Mr. Graves—I found four farthings on the prisoner.

Cross-examined. You did not say next morning when I fetched you from the cell that you had been working for Mr. Graves, and got the half-sovereign from him and weighed it.

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . This coin is bad—it is cast in a mould from the metal which pewter pots are made of, and then gilt in a battery—the difference in weight is more than double—I heard Mr. Hall's evidence, and should say that the half-sovereign was bad—the weight makes a greater difference in gold than in any other coin.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I came by the sovereign honestly; it is the first time in my life I ever had a sovereign; I have never been in custody before."

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Hard Labour

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-615
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour; No Punishment > sentence respited

Related Material

615. ALFRED HERBERT (39) and MINNIE BRATT (31) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.


MARY ANN MEDHURST . My husband is a greengrocer, at 7, Christ Church Residences, Marylebone—on 27th May, between 5 and half-past, the prisoner Bratt came in for two bundles of radishes, price twopence—she put down a florin—I said "This is bad"—I put it against the side of the till and broke it, and asked her where she got it—she said "I do not know where I got it from; I got it from some shop or other"—I said "You must know where you got it from"—she then said "My husband gave it me"—I saw a policeman coming and called to him—we were standing outside the shop—he told me I had better charge her, and took her to the station to see if she had got any others—the male prisoner followed us to the station—I had not got many steps from my shop when he came up and said to me "Don't go up against her, she is only some poor girl who has had it given to her; I will give you something if you don't go against her"—they were taken to the station and charged—the same constable went out after bringing Bratt in, and brought Herbert in—when Bratt came for the radishes Herbert was standing on the opposite side of the road, but I did not see him cross—I did not see him behind me till he spoke to me—this is the coin (produced).

Cross-examined by Herbert. I state the time as being between 5 and half-past, because the children were playing in the street, and they come out of school at 4.30—I won't swear it was past 5.

ROBERT ALLAWAY (Policeman D 113). I was called by Mrs. Medhurst and took Bratt in charge, and received this counterfeit florin (produced)—she said she did not know where she got it, and afterwards that her husband gave it her—nothing was said to her before she made the second statement—I saw Herbert on the opposite side of the street—as I was leaving I saw him go to the shop—going to the station I noticed Herbert following us—he crossed the road and spoke to the last witness—we went into the station, but he remained outside about 20 yards from the door against some railings—I came out—when he saw me he ran away—I ran after him, caught him, brought him back to the station, and told him he would be charged with being concerned with a woman in custody in passing bad coin—he made no reply—I searched him, and found on him in good money three florins, five shillings, ten sixpences, four penny pieces, and 1¾d. in bronze—the station is about a quarter of a mile from Mrs. Medhurst's shop—it was about 5.20 when I got to the station—I was shown a place that day in an area where some counterfeit coin had been found—that was the place where Herbert began to run from.

Cross-examined by Herbert. There were three florins and not four in your pocket—you had 8s. 6d. in one trousers pocket and 8s. 6d. in your side coat pocket.

JOHN REHILLEY . At 6.30 on 27th May, in consequence of directions I received, I went to the area of Mollineux Street Police-station and found

these four florins (produced), which were shown to the prisoners, who said they knew nothing about them; Herbert also said that Bratt asked for a florin, and he gave it to her.

Cross-examined by Herbert. It was about a quarter to 11 the same evening when you were brought up out of the cell and told that other coins had been found—they were found a long time before that—the coins in the area were lying a little way apart from each other—one was in this piece of paper (produced).

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . These five florins are bad—one of those that were found is from the same mould as the one that was uttered.

Herbert in his defence stated that the woman asked him for a florin; that she went to buy something and was taken in charge, and that he followed her to the station for a quarter of a mile; that she was taken inside, and they immediately came out and said he was wanted inside, and stated that if he had been guilty he would not have followed them.

ROBERT ALLAWAY (Re-examined by the COURT ). 1s. 3½d. in coppers was found on Bratt.

GUILTY of the single uttering. HERBERT then PLEADED GUILTY ** to a conviction of felony at Clerkenwell in 1876.Two Years' Hard Labour. BRATT— [Found guilty: see original trial image] Judgment respited.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-616
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

616. MICHAEL FITZPATRICK (18) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.


FREDERICK WILLIAM MAY . I am a draper, of Cable Street, White-chapel—on 13th May the prisoner came in for a pennyworth ot thread—my daughter was standing behind the counter, serving, and I was near the counter—I saw the prisoner put down what appeared to be a shilling—my daughter took it up and put it in her teeth, and then handed it to me—I found it was bad, and said to the prisoner "This is a bad one," and gave it back to him—he said he did not know it was bad—he went away—I sent my boy after him—on 21st May I went to the station and picked him out from several others.

JOHN O'BRIEN . I am in Mr. May's employ—on 13th May I saw the prisoner come in, and Mr. May told me to follow him—he went round two or three turnings, and picked up some dirt from the side of the road and rubbed the shilling with it—I don't think he saw me watching him—he went into a lodging-house with two or three others.

Cross-examined. I did not see you put down the shilling—I was four or five yards behind you—you went down Cable Street and Church Street and into the square.

EDWIN THOMAS EDWARDS . I am a butcher, of Cable Street—about 5.30 on 21st May the prisoner came in for 1lb. 2oz. of meat, which came to 9d.—he gave me this half-crown (produced)—I gave him the change, and put the half-crown on the top of the bowl; there was no other half-crown there—he went out very suddenly, which made me suspicious, and I looked at the half-crown and found it was bad—I looked out at the door in about a minute, but could see nothing of him, and then had my tea, and then went to the station with the coin and described the prisoner to the inspector.

JOHN WRIGHT (Policeman H 286). In consequence of information received from Mr. Edwards, I went on 21st May, a little after 9 o'clock,

to a lodging-house in North-East Passage, St. George, Whitechapel—I there saw the prisoner with two others—I searched them there, sad found on the prisoner two shillings, two sixpences, and 3½d. in bronze—nothing was found on the other men—while searching them I saw Enright find two half-crowns under the seat near where the prisoner was sitting—I then told him who I was, and took him in charge—he said, "I will go to the station"—at the station he said, "It is true I went to this man's shop, and he put the half-crown on the top and gave me the change."

PATRICK ENRIGHT (Detective H). On the evening of 21st May I went with Wright to this lodging-house, and found the prisoner sitting on a form with two others—I told them to stand up; they did so, and I assisted in searching them—I looked under the form, and found something wrapped up in a piece of brown paper—I opened it and found two half-crowns in it, and said, "I believe these are bad"—neither of them spoke—it was close under the side of the form near the prisoner—they were then taken to the station.

JOHN WEST (Chief Inspector H). This half-crown (produced) Mr. Edwards handed me on 21st May.

FREDERICK WILLIAM MAY (Re-examined by the Court). I put the coin in my teeth, and they sunk into it—it looked very bad and black-looking.

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . These three half-crowns are all bad and from the same mould, and they are from the same mould as those in another case; they come from the same maker—the teeth sinking in is a sure sign of its being bad.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "Nothing was found on me or at the station; after I was locked up they found the bad money."

Prisoner's Defence. I am innocent of the crime; anybody can see by my hands that I work hard. GUILTY .**— Six Months' Hard Labour.

FOURTH COURT.—Tuesday, June 23rd, 1885.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-617
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

617. JOHN GROVER (27) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of John Seaberg, with intent to steal.

MR. GILL Prosecuted.

CHARLES SEABERG . I am a cab driver, of 1, Caledonian Crescent, Islington—on 26th May I came home a little after 10 p.m.—after about 15 minutes, while sitting in the back kitchen, I heard the noise of breaking glass—I went into the front kitchen and saw the bottom sash of the window up, the prisoner's knees were on the window-sill, his head in, and his legs out of the window—I had examined the window before, and know it was fastened—there was property of different kinds in the room—I pursued the prisoner; he went up the area steps; I followed him up the Caledonian Road—he turned into Alpha Place and Crescent Avenue, and into Crescent Place, where there is no thoroughfare—I waited at the end, as I knew he would have to come back past me—as he came back he tried to spring past me, but slipped and fell—I detail him till the constable came—he said, "You have done me."

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I did not see you break the window—I did not speak to a young woman not far from my house—I did not see

you join a young woman—I did not beckon her to keep away from my house while you were there.

HENRY NORTH (Policeman G 85). At 10.30 p.m. on the 26th Seaberg gave the prisoner in custody for breaking into No. 1, Caledonian Crescent—the prisoner said he had been in company with a bad woman and got worse for drink—I went to the house with Daly and examined it—I found a square of glass in the bottom sash of the kitchen window, broken from outside in such a way as to enable the catch to be moved from outside—at the station the prisoner said, "It is a most serious charge."

The prisoner in his defence stated that a girl had stolen his purse while he was drinking with her; that by the advice of the police he went to look for her, and saw her talking to the prosecutor; that after the prosecutor went in doors he went and accused her of taking his purse; that the broke the window with for umbrella and knocked his hat off, and the prosecutor came out and gave him in charge.


22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-618
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

618. JOHN GROVER was again indicted for burglary in the dwelling-house of Lewis Marks, and stealing four pair of trousers and; other articles, his property.

MR. GILL Prosecuted.

SARAH MARKS . I am the wife of Lewis Marks, and keep a second-hand clothes shop at 386, Mile End Road—on Saturday, 23rd May, the prisoner came there and tried on the suit of clothes he has now on, and said he would call again—our place was fastened up that night as usual—on getting up next morning I found the back window on the ground floor had been forced open, and some person had got admission in that way—among other things I missed the clothes he has now on, a gold ring, five metal chains, two bags, and these other things produced, and some others that I have not got—these and others were stolen from our place.

Cross-examined. I put the coat and waistcoat on you myself on the Saturday evening, I would not be sure about the time—you put your head down and tried to put it on yourself, and I cautioned the boy to look particularly so that you should not come again.

HENRY NORTH (Policeman G 85). I arrested the prisoner on the last charge—he was then wearing the suit he has now on—he gave his address 4, Coram Street; that was false; and then he gave 4, Cullam Street—I went there to the first-floor back room—his box was shown to me; I searched it, and found in it some of the articles which Mrs. Marks has identified, a pair of trousers, a plaid suit, seven brooches, a scent bottle, and other things.

PALMER ELLIS . I live at 4, Cullam Street, Stratford—the prisoner lodged in my first-floor baok room, in which North found the box.

Witness for the Defence.

MISS GREMNEY. You were at our house on the night this robbery took place from a quarter or half-past 9 to half-past 12.

The prisoner in his defence stated that the suit he had on and other things were given him for 10s. at a prise fight on Whit Sunday on Wanstead Flas' by a man he believed was Mrs. Marks's brother.

GUILTY .— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

There was another indictment for burglary against the prisoner.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-619
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > with recommendation
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

619. WILLIAM BROWN (20) and FREDERICK GUY (21) , Stealing a gelding, a set of harness, and other articles, the goods of Henry Coomber. Second Count, receiving the same.

MR. HUTTON Prosecuted; MR. GEOGHEGAN appeared for Brown, and


WILLIAM NICHOLSON (City Policeman 340). On 16th May, about 6.20, I was in Charles Street with Eagle—I saw the prisoners with two men not in custody, loitering; they stood and looked at a grey pony and out standing at the east end of Long Lane, Smith field—John Lanes, a constable in uniform, approached, and they walked away round the cental arches, stood for a few minutes, and walked to the urinal—I then saw Guy take the nose bag off the pony, take hold of the pony's head, and walk it into Duke Street, 140 yards off—I and Eagle walked after them—Brown said something to Guy—I took Guy; Eagle was in front, he turned and saw I had Guy, and he took Brown—I said to Guy "What are you going to do with the pony and cart?"—he said "A man asked me to take it away"—I said "Which man?"—he said "I don't know"—I said "I shall charge you with stealing it"—he said nothing—I walked with him to the police-station, where the charge was read to him; he made no reply—Brown said "I don't know this man, never saw him before"——after a week's remand at Guildhall they said they had both been together drinking at Covent Garden—they were perfectly sober.

Cross-examined by MR. FRITH. It was quite light—I was standing 20 yards away, in plain clothes, as was Eagle—I found on Guy a discharge from the militia at Woolwich, as medically unfit for service—I do not know that he has been twice confined in a lunatic asylum—he was perfectly sober.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. 6.30 is a rather busy time in the Meat Market—Charterhouse Street leads there—I did not see Brown touch the pony and cart, he was only in company with Guy, like the other two men; they were all talking together—when Brown said he did not know the man, he did not allude to the man who had asked him to hold the pony and cart, he alluded to Guy—he said "I don't know this man."

JAMES EAGLE (City Policeman 306). I was on duty with Nicholson in Charterhouse Street on 16th May, early in the morning—I saw the two prisoners with two men not in custody standing at the east end of the Meat Market in Charterhouse Street—they went up to a grey pony and cart at the east end of the market—three of them stood on the footway, Guy went towards it—a constable came out of the market and stood by the cart—they went away round the market and Long Lane, and they stood at the corner of the Avenue about a minute and then walked down the Central Avenue and round by the urinal—after five minutes they came to where we were standing—we crossed to the opposite side of the market, and Brown stood on one side of the urinal, the other prisoners it the corner—Guy took the nose bag off the pony and put it in the cart—he led the pony and cart up Gough Street by the side of St. Bartholomew's Hospital—I overtook the prisoners in Cloth Fair; Brown was a few yards in front of Guy—I walked behind him within a yard when I got to about St. Bartholomew's Close—Brown said "Jump up"—Guy hesitated a minute then looked at me—Brown said "Jump up and drive" and walked away—I looked round and saw that Nicholson had apprehended Guy, and I apprehended Brown, and the other men in front of Brown ran

away—I said "I am going to take you in custody for being concerned with that man and others in stealing a pony and cart"—he said "All right"—while walking down the street about a minute afterwards he laid "That man is a perfect stranger to me"—I said "I have seen you with him for the last 20 minutes"—he said "I know nothing about that, he is a perfect stranger to me"—he repeated that several times—the prisoners were sober—when charged they denied all knowledge of each other.

Cross-examined by MR. FRITH. I heard him say "Jump up" several times so loud that anybody could have heard it.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I was behind the pony and cart when Gray was leading it away; Brown was in front—he was about ten yards in front when I took him, and I was in front of it, within a yard of Brown—when Nicholson took Gray I went up to Brown at once, and put my hand on his shoulder without his turning round.

HENRY COOMBER . I am a butcher, of 38, Rayner Terrace, Stratford—I drove this pony and cart into Bartholomew Mews against the urinal, where a man minds it—I went into the Market to buy some meat, when I came out it was at the police-station.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. The man who minds the cart is not here—he does not arrive till 6 o'clock, and I left it at 5.30—the nosebag was on and the bit out of the pony's mouth.

SIDNEY HENRY GRAY . I am a milkman, at 102, Colegrave Road, Stratford New Town—I saw the pony and cart at Guildhall—I had lent it to Coomber on hire—the pony was worth 8l., and with the cart 18l.

Guy received a good character.

GUILTY . The Jury recommended Guy to mercy.— Twelve Months' Hard Labour each.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-620
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

620. RICHARD TAYLOR, Wilfully damaging a certain fixed machine and engine employed in the manufacture of bricks, with intent to destroy and injure it.

MR. GOODRICH Proscecuted; MR. WARBURTON Defended.

JOSEPH STUDDS . I live at the Boat public-house, North Hyde, and manufacture bricks on the land adjoining—on Tuesday morning, 2nd June, between 5.15 and 5.30, Taddenham, my engineer, made a communication to me, and I went with him to the engine-house in the brickfield—the boarding of the engine-house had been broken away, the water had been let out of the boiler, and a large cog had been broken off an old wheel outside, and placed between two cogs of a pinion wheel—the result of that would have been, if the engine had been worked, that the whole motion would have thrown down and smashed at a loss of 70l. or 80l., and 70 or 80 men would have to be paid—if the men had lit the furnace without noticing that the water had been let out, the fire-box would have become hot, and when cold water came in the boiler would have burst—the man fills the boiler overnight, and might look or not before lighting the fire—I went down the field and found bricks crushed under foot—I saw footmarks which exactly correspond with Taylor's boots—the engine-house is closed and the driver leaves at 6 p.m.—no one has any right there at any time—I had seen the prisoner on Sunday, the 31st—he came to my house and asked me for a job—I told him I

had nothing for him to do—he had been in my employment about two years before.

Cross-examined. He was then with me six, seven, or perhaps twelve months—I gave him a good character—no injury was actually done to the machinery, it was perfectly right, we had only to take out the obstruction—I have about 150 men in my employment—I do not think you would find any of them who do not wear nailed boots—the engine-house is about 196 yards from the main road leading to Southall—no watch was set after the damage—there was no watch from 6 o'clock, when we shut, to 5.30 a.m., when it was discovered—Wingrove was in my employment—he left on the Saturday after the accident, I believe—I gave him notice because of a dispute about paying for the Whitsuntide holidays; it was nothing to do with this.

FLORENCE ALICE STUDDS . I am the last witness's daughter, and live with him at the Boat—I am 15 years old—I saw the prisoner, on this day at 7 or 8 p.m. going across the brickfield—he came into the home; I served him with beer, and then he went up the road towards Southall, turned back, and went across the field—I did not see him go near the engine-house—there is a clump of bricks between our house and the engine-house; he went by it—I went indoors—he was alone—there is a footpath across the field for the men who work in it.

Cross-examined. He stopped about live minutes—he said it was a fine day—he seemed friendly—he talked to one of my father's men—Henry Woods was not with him; there was no other man with him when he went across the field—after serving him I went to the front door and into the road, and when I came back I saw him going across the field—I did not see Woods outside the public-house.

Re-examined. I am quite sure he was alone going across the fields.

GEORGE SEAGROVE . I am a carter in the prosecutor's employment—on 1st June, about 8 p.m., I was standing in the road just outside Mr. Studds'—the prisoner came across the brickfield from the clump of bricks between the house and the engine-house round by the breeze to the house—he said to me, "Halloa, George, how are you getting on?"—I said, "All right, how are you?"—he went into the house and had a pint of beer—he had no right to be in the field at that time—he did not stop long in the house, and when he left turned along the road to the left—another young man left with him, they went away together.

Cross-examined. Woods was the other young man—they want towards the brickfield, and turned to the left towards Brentford.

JOHN TADDENHAM . I live at Cranford, and was an engineer in Studds' employment—on Tuesday, 2nd June, I went to work about 5 o'clock—I found some one had broken in, opened the tap of the boiler and let out all the water, and put a piece of iron in the pin-wheel of the slow motion—I told my master, and we examined it together—we looked over the ground and found footmarks which led into Cranford Lane from North Hyde—I saw the footmarks again on the following Saturday—they were deep in the clay; there had been rain, but not enough to wash them out—on the Friday afternoon, between 5 and 6 o'clock, I saw the prisoner come across the brickfield to the engine-shed—he had no right there.

Cross-examined. A week elapsed before the examination of the boot marks was made—the damage would not take long to do—a board had

been pulled down to get into the engine-shed—I know nothing about the bricks.

By the JURY. The blow-off tap had been turned on, to empty the poiler—I should not light the fire without looking at the boiler—I know left her full.

JOHN WINGROVE . I have worked some time for Mr. Studds and his father—I left their employment on 6th June—on Sunday, 31st May, I was at the Grand Junction Arms, North Hyde, about 1.30 or 1.45; with the prisoner—he asked me if I would do something in the boiler to stop working for a day or two—I said I would do no such thing, and that is I was leaving my employment I would leave it as I ought to do—I stopped talking to him for a few minutes and then went away—I have known the prisoner four or five years.

Cross-examined. There were several people in the public-house when the conversation took place; none of them are here—I left the prosecutor's employment about a week after this, I was under notice to go at the time—I had been in the public-house about ten minutes—the prisoner did not say "Should you mind me having your job?" nor did I reply "No, not if you can get it."

JOSEPH GRUMMITT (Policeman T 150). I am stationed at Harlington—I received information from Studds, and in consequence apprehended the prisoner on 7th June—I told him the charge—he said "I know nothing about it"—at the station he said "I went into the field on the Monday evening to look at the engine, also at the slow motion, but I don't remember what I done"—I went to his house and received from his daughter a pair of boots, with which I made a fresh impression by the side of a number of very clear footprints, pointed out to me by the prosecutor, round the engine shed—they corresponded—the ground had been dug recently, and scarlet runners planted; it is thick clay—there were no other footprints there—I believe there is a hard path leading to the engine-house from the roadway.

Witness for the Defence.

HENRY WOODS . I am an engine driver—I was with the prisoner on 1st June, from 10.30—after 5 o'clock we both went into the field together, and to the engine-house and out again—the prisoner went into Mr. Studds's house at half-past for some beer, and then took the can back; I kept outside—I can swear he never touched anything belonging to Mr. Studds that day—after having the beer we went from North Hyde to Brentford, about four miles, and got there about 10 o'clock—I passed by his house with him, and saw him go indoors; he said "Good night."

Cross-examined. I work for Mr. Whitehouse, at Brentford—I was with the prisoner all day—he fetched the beer out and took the can back again—we went straight home by the canal between 7 and 8—we did not go across the brickfield—if Miss Studds said we did it is not true.

The prisoner received a good character.


22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-621
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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625. HENRY ALT (31) was indicted for the wilful murder of Charles Howard; he was also charged, on the Coroner's Inquisition, with the like murder.



ANN ELIZA RUSSELL . I am the widow of a police-constable, and lodge at 25, Rutland Street, Whitechapel—I went to lodge there six weeks before the 1st of March—I have known the prisoner about 12 months, part of that time was when my husband was alive—he died on 4th August, 1884, Bank Holiday—after his death the prisoner on several occasions asked me to marry him—I said "No"—he said nothing but death should part us—shortly before the 1st March I took his dagger from him—that was in my parlour—he sharpened it on one of my pokers, and said it would be bright if it was wanted at the police-court, and he pointed it to me at the time—the blade of it was about six inches long, and it had a cross-bar of steel—it did not shut up—it was quite naked—it had two sharp edges—in consequence of what he said at that time I took the dagger away, and put it in my drawer—I only had it two or three minutes that day—I did not keep it in my drawer all that day because he said he would force it open if I did not give it him back, and I gave it him back—I first met Howard at my brother-in-law's—his name was Charles, but I called him George—I first met him about a fortnight before the occurrence at my brother-in-law's—I saw his frequently after that, not every day, pretty nearly—he was a farrier—I engaged myself to marry him—I did not say anything to Alt about my marrying Howard—on Saturday night, 28th February, I was all day at my sister's, Emily Murrell, 62, Charlotte Street, Whitechapel—Howard had been with me that day, not all day; he came to my sister's about 7 in the evening, we left at 20 minutes to 12 to go home—my sister's is about 5 or 10 minutes' walk from Rutland Street—as we were going home we met the prisoner, and we all three went into the White Hart public-house, which is opposite, in Turner Street, almost within a stone's throw of my house, it is the next turning—we only stayed there three minutes—we were talking quietly, all friendly—I had twopennyworth of rue gin, and the others had half a pint of beer each, in pewter pots—we were all sober—we then left the White Hart together—the prisoner was lodging at a beershop in Whitechapel Road at this time—I don't

know the name of it—they were just shutting up the shutters, when we left the White Hart—that was close upon 12—we all three crossed to the door of my house and stood there—while standing there the prisoner asked me if I would marry him—that was said in a tone of voice that Howard could hear—I said no, as I said before, as I was going to marry George—my little boy, 6 1/2 years old, was with me all day, and my baby as well—just after I had said this about marrying George, my landlord and landlady came to the door from the inside—they stood at the door, and were present when he asked me to be his wife—the prisoner said something to my landlady which I could not hear—they stood at the door until I was being stabbed, and then they shut me out—when they saw him stabbing me they shut the door—before they went in the prisoner caught hold of Howard and stabbed him first—I could not see whether he had anything in his hand—he struck him somehow on this side, and he put up his arms and staggered—I can't say for sure how many times the prisoner struck him; two or three times—Howard never said anything—after he had stabbed Howard he caught hold of me and swung me against the edge of the door, and stabbed me in the neck, six times in the chest, and three times on my back—it was done all in a moment—my little boy was with me—my baby was in bed—I had gone home about 8 o'clock and put my baby to bed—the prisoner did not say anything either to me or Howard; only made like a groaning noise every time he stabbed me—after I was stabbed I saw Howard standing at the corner of Rutland Street with his arms up and staggering—he had not said or done anything to the prisoner before he was stabbed—at the same time I saw the prisoner with his arms up stabbing himself about the side—I then knocked at the door, and the landlady let me in—I was taken to the London Hospital, where I remained nine weeks—the prisoner and my husband had not been on so very friendly terms, only speaking together and that like—two or three days before this occurrence the prisoner had given me his bank book to take care of—I had got it at the time of this occurrence.

Cross-examined. The landlord and landlady waited until they saw the stabbing, and then went in and shut the door—I knew the prisoner in my husband's lifetime, he was a particular friend of my husband's; they were on good terms—my husband and I had lodged at the prisoner's cousin's, a Mr. Schweppe, a German baker—I did not, shortly after my husband's death, tell the prisoner that I had poisoned myself, and I never did—he did not give me an emetic—I did not take, or pretend to take, poison within two months of my husband's death—I did not say to the prisoner "I have poisoned myself because I am so lonely"—I did not ask, or suggest to him, that he should marry me—I know he was called to Germany, prior to Christmas, by the death of his mother—we were lodging at Mr. Schweppe's then—before he went to Germany I had not encouraged him to believe that I would marry him—I never told him so—I never said I was going to marry him—I did not say before the Coroner that I had promised to marry him at the end of 12 months of my husband's death—I told Mrs. Burton, my landlady, so, but not in the prisoner's presence—I only told my landlady, no other person; not Murrell, my brother-in-law—I told him I was frightened of him—I did not continue to see him up to the night of 28th February; he obstructed me in the street—I went to live in Rotherhithe for about five days, at

Christmas time—that was after he had come back from Germany; that was just for a holiday—I still kept on my lodging at Schweppe's—that prisoner went to Rotherhithe with me for the five days—I can't tell exactly how long I stopped at Schweppe's after that; I have my rent-book to show—the reason I left was because I could not afford to pay the amount for the lodging—Schweppe reduced it from 6s. to 5s. a week after my husband's death, because I gave up one room—I went to lodge at Rutland Street at 6s. 3d. a week—Alt said if I would take care of his box he would pay the rent—at Rotherhithe I was on a visit—Alt paid the 6s. at Mrs. Burton's, and I paid the 3d.—he lodged at the Veteran beer-shop, in Whitechapel Road, kept by Conrad Bauer, a German—I know him—I knew that Howard was a farrier—my brother-in-law, Murrell, was foreman over Howard at the same place—Howard was something like 48 years of age; he was a widower, with one grown-up son—his sister had charge of the son—I had discussed with my sister, Mrs. Murrell, the marrying of Howard—I knew Howard a fortnight before this occurrence—the incident of the dagger with the prisoner was something like three weeks before the occurrence, or it might be more; it was before I knew Howard—I understood the prisoner very well—I gave up the dagger because I was frightened at him; he said he would have it—I had it again about a fortnight before the occurrence; I kept it over a week then, locked up in my little drawer, and kept the key in my pocket—I did not say anything before the Coroner about having the dagger a second time, it was not asked me—I did not at first say before the Magistrate that I had only had the dagger in my possession one day, and afterwards that I had had it a week—I said that I had shown it to my brother-in-law when he came with Howard—my brother-in-law was examined before the Magistrate—after he had been examined I asked permission to go back and correct my evidence—he had said that he did not see the dagger; he was under the influence of drink; he said on the sofa and went to sleep—he might have seen the dagger, I showed it to them—I know Bauer, who kept the beershop where the prisoner lodged—I saw him before the Magistrate; I did not hear him give evidence—I did not go to his beershop to see the prisoner every day up to the Thursday or Friday before this happened; I went there two or three times, because he had something belonging to me, which I wanted; I only went two or three times, because I knew I was engaged to Howard—I made that engagement about a fortnight before the occurrence—before that I used to see Alt about once or twice a week—I think he gave me the 6s. after I was engaged to Howard, I can't say for sure—he made me a present of a picture after I was engaged to Howard; I was going to buy it, and he bought it and left it on the doorstep—I did not wish to have it from him; he would not let me pay for it, he threw the money down, two five-shilling pieces; it is my property now—I was at the White Hart public-house on the night of the occurrence with Alt and Howard—I had not been there with them on other occasions; I had been with Alt, not Howard—the two might have been there, this was the only night they were in my company together—I know Mrs. Argent, of Haddington Street, Commercial Road—that was the place where the picture was bought—I did not go there on the Saturday about 8 o'clock, I took my boy home at 8—I did not go to Mrs. Argent's after buying the picture—I saw Alt in the morning about 9—I did not see him between that time

and meeting him when I was with Howard, and went into the White Hart—the two men were perfectly friendly; there was not an angry word between them that night in my presence—the lamp at the end of the street was the nearest Lamp to my house, it would be about 70 yards off—it was a dark night, but I could see by the lamp what I have described—no man went into my lodging that night—I don't know that Mr. Burton heard the footsteps of a man—Howard did not come out of the house; I did not take him in—I had not been drinking that evening, I only had one glass at that house; I had one glass at my brother-in-law's—I did not notice that Alt had been drinking on this evening, he did not seem at all as if he had; he did not say much, no words passed except what he said to me—he was in the middle of the road when he was stabbing himself, he was at a little distance from Howard, who was throwing up his arms; that was the last I saw—Howard was at the corner and Alt in the middle of the road, and I was on the doorstep—Howard was sober—he was very tall, a head and shoulders taller than the prisoner—I had not made any arrangement about Howard's son living away from us.

Re-examined. My rooms at 25, Rutland Street were the two parlours on the ground floor—the door of the house was not open before I was stabbed—I opened it with my key—I had not gone in with my little boy; I am sure of that—I only just put my market bag inside the door, and I stood at the door, I had not gone in, nor had Howard; I am sure of that.

GEORGE BURTON . I live at 25, Butland Street, and am a ware houseman—I rent that house—Mrs. Russell had two rooms on he ground floor—I was up on this Saturday night, about 10 minutes past 12 o'clock, in the underground kitchen—my wife had just gone up to bed—Mrs. Russell was out—I heard her and her little boy come in—I knew it was her because she let herself in with the latch-key—I heard her footsteps—I also heard a man's footsteps in the passage over the kitchen, and they went into Mrs. Russell's room—I heard them talking together in the front room for a few minutes—I heard Mrs. Russell—I did not know the man's voice at all—just after that I heard a noise outside of angry talking—I could hear Mrs. Russell's voice and a man's—I went up and stood at the street door, and saw Mrs. Russell and Alt quarrelling together—the little boy was outside—they were just in front of the door on the pavement—I did not know Howard before that night—he came out of Mrs. Russell's front parlour while I was standing at the door, and stood on my right-hand side, about a yard or so from Mrs. Russell and the prisoner—she said "Will you go away, Harry?"—that was speaking to the prisoner—he said "I will not go away"—she kept on asking him to go away, and said to him "I don't want to have anything more to do with you; I wish to bid you adieu;" and she said, referring to Howard, "This man is going to be my husband, are you not, George?"—Howard said "Yes"—my wife came down while the quarrel was going on—we saw that the prisoner and Mrs. Russell were getting very angry together, and shut the door and remained in the passage for I think two or three minutes, when Mrs. Russell knocked at the door, and said "Mrs. Burton, will you let me in; I am all alone"—before that we had heard high words outside in the street—my wife then opened the door, and we saw that Mrs. Russell had been stabbed—she said "I have been

stabbed"—I went at once and fetched the police, and Mrs. Russell was taken to the London Hospital—when she was let in I saw neither of the men—I did not go outside the door and look up the street—we shut the door at once after letting her in—when they were quarrelling Alt appeared to be sober, Mrs. Russell appeared to be in drink—as it was the first time I had seen Howard I can't say about him, he appeared to be sober—I had only seen Alt once before this occurrence, about six weeks before, when he helped to remove Mrs. Russell's goods to our house.

Cross-examined. The first time Mrs. Russell came about our apartments I was not at home, and my wife told her to call again, when I was—that was about the middle of January—she then said she was about to marry Harry—that was Alt—I believe he came there constantly, but I did not see him—no blow was struck before I went in—it is not true that I saw the stabbing of Howard and Mrs. Russell before I went in and shut the door—I saw no blow struck.

By the JURY. I am sure Howard came out of Mrs. Russell's room—I saw him with my own eyes—he came past me and stood on the pavement.

SARAH BURTON . I am the wife of the last witness—Mrs. Russell occupied two rooms in our house about five or six weeks before this occurrence—she was at home as a rule during the day—the prisoner used frequently to visit her—I saw him there several times; I could not say how many—on this night I had gone up to bed, and was in bed by a quarter-past 12—soon after I heard my husband's voice, and went down to the street door—my husband was standing at the door, and I said to him "What is the matter?"—he said "Mrs. Russell and this man is having a quarrel," and I said "I can't have it at this time of night"—when he said "this man," he meant Harry, the prisoner—when I came down Howard was standing on my right-hand side on the pavement, just outside the door—I said to Mrs. Russell "Will you come in and come to bed?"—I heard her say to the prisoner, "Harry, I want you to go away; I don't want anything more to do with you; this man is going to be my husband," pointing to Howard, and said to him "Are you not, George?"—he said "Yes"—the prisoner then looked at me, and said "Look here, missus, she has promised to be my wife, but she has deceived me"—high words then passed—Mrs. Russell wanted him to go away, and he would not go—I and my husband then went in and shut the door, leaving them outside—we stood in the passage for some minutes—Mrs. Russell then came and said "Mrs Burton, let me in; I am all alone"—I unbolted the door and let her in, and saw she was stabbed, and I saw a splash of blood on her face—I assisted her to her room, and she then fainted—the police were sent for, and she was taken to the London Hospital—during the time I was at the door Howard said nothing; he was very quiet.

Cross-examined. Mrs. Russell smelt of drink, and she was very excited—I did not see any weapon either in the hand of Howard or Alt—I did not see any blow struck—it was not because these people were getting angry that we went in and shut the door, I was getting cold, I had only got a cloak over me, and I said "Let us go in and shut the door"—up to the time of Mrs. Russell knocking and saying she was alone I don't know how the quarrel went on outside.

THOMAS WOODHAMS . I am a milkman, and live at 13. Rutland Street

—on Saturday night, about half-past 12 o'clock, I was standing at the corner of Turner Street—Rutland Street turns into Turner Street—what made me stop was, I saw a little boy at the corner; I thought he was lost; and then I saw two men and a woman at No. 25—they were on the step quite close to the door—I heard no talking, but I heard the woman shriek—the door was then opened and the woman went inside, and the door was closed again—before the woman shrieked I saw the shorter man (the prisoner) go like that with his right arm, hitting at the woman—I thought they were playing—that was when the shriek was—then I saw the two men running after each other; the tallest man was in front, the other man was about three yards behind him—when they got to the corner of the street the prisoner stopped, because he couldn't catch the other man, and turned to the left, towards Commercial Road—the taller man ran into Raven's shop and fell down; the prisoner stood opposite to where I was for a minute, and when he saw the man fall down he buttoned up his coat and took to his heels and ran towards Whitechapel, in an opposite direction—I saw neither of the men carrying anything—I afterwards went to Raven's shop, and saw Howard lying down in the shop—I at once went for a constable and assisted in lifting him on something to take him away to the London Hospital—he did not speak at all—I afterwards saw his body at the hospital.

Cross-examined. I was standing about 20 yards from Raven's shop—the boy was nearer to me than 25, Rutland Street—I had not got any watch with me; I might have only been standing there a minute or two—between where I was standing and what I was looking at there was a public light—I thought the two men were playing with one another—when I heard the scream the taller man ran towards the butcher's shop—it all occurred in a short time—I took notice of the prisoner—I don't think he could have been stabbing himself in the middle of the road without my seeing him—he didn't get within hand's reach of the other man; he stood till he saw him fall down, and then ran—he was right opposite the shop—I had been at the Garibaldi beershop two or three hours, and had had enough—it was the shorter man who was moving his hand up and down.

Re-examined. I saw the prisoner moving his hand up and down towards both the man and woman.

JOHN RAVEN . I am a butcher at 45, Turner Street, Commercial Road—my shop was open a little after 12 o'clock on this night; I was serving a man before closing—a man staggered into my shop and made towards me as if to speak to me, and f✗ell on the floor; he turned out to be Howard—I could not pick him up, and called for the assistance of a man outside—he did not speak—he was taken away from my door to the hospital—the man had nothing in his hand.

WILLIAM MILLER . I am a joiner—on this Sunday morning, about half-past 12 o'clock, I was in Turner Street and went to Raven's shop and saw the deceased lying there with blood on his left side—I assisted in taking him to the London Hospital—he was wounded in the chest—I don't know how he got into the shop—I had not seen him before.

ALFRED MURRELL . I am a farrier, and live at 62, Charlotte Street, Whitechapel—my wife is Mrs. Russell's sister—I knew the deceased man Howard for about 12 years, he worked in the same yard with me; he had been away twice in that time, a month or two at a time—on the

evening of 28th February Howard and Mrs. Russell were at my house when I got home about half-past 9; they stayed there till about half-past 11, they then left—they were both sober—I never saw any knife in Howard's possession; only a little pocket-knife that he used to cut his meals with—I have seen a dagger in Mrs. Russell's possession, the blade was about six inches long, and the handle was something like a common fork handle, about three inches long, with a bar across about two inches long—I saw it at Mrs. Russell's, she took it out of a drawer and showed it to me—I don't recollect her saying anything at the time—I asked her to let me look at it—she took something off the point, I think it was an old handle or something—I did not take much notice of it—I saw Howard's body at the hospital and identified it.

Cross-examined. Howard lost his wife six or seven years ago; since then he would have a glass sometimes, but he kept his place at work in the day—we had a glass of ale together on the Saturday night; all the drink we had was a quartern of gin and a pot of four ale, from half-past 9 till half-past 11—I have been the worse for drink, but never lost my place—Mrs. Russell has reminded me since she was examined that she said the showed the dagger to Howard and me, and that I was so drunk and asleep that I could not see it.

THOMAS JAMES BOOKER . I am manager of the White Hart public-house in Turner Street, Commercial Road; it is about a dozen doors from Rutland Street—on the evening of 28th February, a little after half-past 11, Mrs. Russell, the prisoner, and the deceased came in—Mrs. Russell had twopennyworth of rue gin; he men had half of bitter and half of stout-and-mild—the deceased paid for the first; then they had their glasses replenished, and the prisoner paid for the last just as they were going out about 10 minutes to 12—they sat down on a form, and to all appearance they were quite friendly together and sober—I stood at the door as they went out—they went towards Rutland Street—the prisoner appeared to be quite sober.

Cross-examined. They were customers—I had seen them together before once or twice—I heard that both Howard and Alt were paying their addresses to Mrs. Russell—she appeared to treat them both alike, she did that evening—there was no quarrelling, no angry words of any kind—I never heard any threat made use of by Alt to Howard.

WILLIAM THOMAS REECE . I was house surgeon at the London Hospital about a quarter to 1 on Sunday morning, 1st March, when Howard was brought there; he was then deed, and the body warm—I examined him, and found that he was wounded—I afterwards made a post-mortem examination—he had four wounds; the first was on the left side of the chest two and a half inches, and reached the heart; the next was at the upper part of the chest, piercing the breast-bone; the third was over the left shoulder, and the fourth over the right shoulder—they were such wounds as might have been inflicted by being stabbed by a dagger by another person; they were double-edged wounds—the cause of death was the wound to the heart; that must have caused death within a few minutes—there were no wounds on his hands—I believe the police took charge of, his clothing—Mrs. Russell was brought to the hospital about a quarter of an hour after Howard—she had six wounds on the upper part of the chest and three on her back—she remained under treatment

at the hospital till 5th May—they were wounds that might have been inflicted by the stab of a dagger; they were serious wounds.

Cross-examined. It is rather difficult to speculate upon the weapon from what you see on the body—the wound that caused Howard's death actually penetrated the heart; a depth of two inches would do that—I cannot measure the time that a person could run after receiving such a wound—I examined his hand carefully, but could not find a wound; the hand was covered with blood—the wounds on both appeared to have been inflicted with a two-edged weapon.

By the COURT. The wound that penetrated the heart was an oblique wound; it passed downwards and inwards I should think; I should think about four inches.

GEORGE BLATCHFORD . I am a cab-driver, of 50, West Street, Mile End—I was with my cab in Whitechapel about 20 minutes past 12 in the morning of 1st March—a man called me, and I drove him to the Veteran beershop, Mile End Road, which was about 300 or 400 yards from where I took him up—I am not able to identify the man; I did not take any notice of him—he got out of the cab and went into the beershop—I waited till he came out in two or three minutes supported by two men—I drove all three to the London Hospital—they did not get out there, and I drove them on to the German Hospital—the two men that were supporting him came out, and the third man was left there—when I first saw the man he was coming from the direction of Turner Street.

ALFRED VEVEY . I am surgeon at the German Hospital, Dalston—on Sunday morning, 1st March, about 1 o'clock, the prisoner was brought there—he was suffering from injuries to his chest; I found 10 punctured wounds—I asked him how he got his wounds—he said he had had a quarrel with another man—the wounds had all the same direction, from above downwards—they might have been self-inflicted; it is more likely that they were self-inflicted than otherwise—they were done with a dagger or a knife with a very thin back, I mean double-edged—they were not very dangerous—he remained an in-patient till 18th March, when he was taken into custody; in the meantime a constable had been in charge of him.

Cross-examined. I do not recollect his saying, "I had a quarrel with another man, and we fought"—I do not remember anything more than I have stated—any knife sharp at the back and front would have inflicted the wounds—I have not been shown any instrument—I do not remember that a man who had been a constable was put in the next bed to him—a constable came next morning—I did not hear him speaking to the prisoner.

HENRY PAYNE (Detective). On 1st March I went to the German Hospital, and saw the prisoner there and took charge of him—on 8th March, at 9 in the morning, he called me to his bedside—I made this note of the conversation about 10 minutes after—he said, "How is Mrs. Russell?"—I said, "She is getting better"—he then told me how it occurred—he said, "We were in the White Hart public-house, Turner Street, drinking together; we had a row together, and when we came out Howard wanted to fight me; we were all in drink; I then took my dagger out of my pocket and stabbed Mrs. Russell; Howard ran away towards the corner opposite the White Hart, when I stabbed him two or three times; I then stabbed myself and ran towards Whitechapel Road;

I saw a cab and I got into it; I then went to the beershop where I lived; the landlord, and another man took me in a cab to the London Hospital, and when I got to tho gates I would not go in, and told my landlord to take me to the German Hospital, Dalston."

Cross-examined. There was a patient in that hospital in the next bed to the prisoner, who had been in the police force—I didn't know that until about four or five days after I went there first—I didn't suggest that he should find out how it was done—I cannot remember the conversation except by refreshing my memory from my pocket-book—it does happen that the leaves just preceding what I have been reading are torn out of my book—I very often tear leaves out of my book—I do not take them out when the notes I have taken are not sufficiently full—I have got no memorandum at all between the 1st and 8 th of March—I could not say whether the leaves were torn out when I took it down—the leaves would be plain when they were torn out—I could not say whether any hospital attendant was there when I took the statement—I think there are two leaves torn out—I might have torn those two leaves out previous to my writing this down, but I don't remember it—I did not write this down twice—I wrote it in the ward—I did not ask the attendant to go back and read it out to him with me.

SEPTIMUS WESTRON (Policeman H 106). On 1st March I was called to Turner Street, and afterwards saw Mrs. Russell in the front parlour in Rutland Street—I saw she was injured, and took her to the hospital—I afterwards saw Howard at the hospital—I searched his clothing—there was no knife or weapon upon him.

FREDERICK ABBERLINE (Police Inspector H). I have made inquiries with ragard to the man Conrad Bauer, who kept the public-house where the prisoner lodged—they say he has gone abroad—on the 1st March I went to the German Hospital, and saw the prisoner—he was very ill, and I gave instructions to Police-constable Paine—about 3 o'clock the same day I went again—I was not in uniform—the prisoner beckoned me to his bedside, and said, "Mrs. Russell has my bank-book in her drawer; she brought me to it"—I simply nodded, and passed out of the ward—on the 18th March I went to the hospital again, and finding he was fairly convalescent and able to leave, I said to him, "I am an inspector of police; I have to take you into custody for the wilful murder of Charles Howard, and also for attempting to murder Annie Eliza Russell, by stabbing her on the 1st instant"—he made no remark whatever—at the station the charge was read over to him—he made no reply—I searched at the Veteran public-house to see if I could find a dagger or instrument of any kind—none has been discovered—the distance from the lamp to 25, Rutland Street is as near as possible 18 yards—the distance from Raven's shop to 25, Rutland Street is 84 yards.

Cross-examined. I measured from the middle of the roadway and across in a direct line to Raven's shop—the lamp is on the same side as 25—I was not aware until the end of the week that Conrad Bauer had gone, when I saw his shop shut up—he was served with the usual notice and was bound over—I was present at the Coroner's inquest, and heard him examined there, and also before the Magistrate, on behalf of the Treasury—he said that Mrs. Russell used to come to his house constantly to fetch Alt out.

Re-examined. Bauer was the licensed keeper of this beer-house.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I am not guilty, I reserve my defence."

John Schweppe, a baker, deposed to the prisoner's good character as a peaceable well-conducted man.

GUILTY.—Strongly recommended to mercy by the Jury on account of his acting under extreme jealousy .— DEATH.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-626
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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626. JOHN WILLIS (22) was indicted for, and charged on the Coroner's Inquisition with, the manslaughter of Edward Badkin.

MR. POLAND Prosecuted; MR. PURCELL Defended.

GEORGE OBANNY . I live at 47, Bateman Street, and am a chair-mender—on Saturday night, 6th June, I was with Edward Badkin, about a quarter-past 12, walking along the Kingsland High Street, arm-in-arm, going towards home—we were opposite Tapping's wood-yard—the prisoner came at the back of me and shoved me one way and Badkin the other—Badkin said "What are you doing of? you ought to know better"—the prisoner then turned round and struck him in the right eye with his fist—Badkin fell on the ground on his side, and his forehead hit on the kerb—up to that time the prisoner had said nothing—he then struck me three times, once in the eye, once on the nose, and once under the jaw—I closed with him and we fell to the ground—I got on top of him—he then got up and ran away—I went to Badkin's assistance—he was insensible—he didn't speak—I assisted to take him to his lodgings—both of us were quite sober—I am quite certain he was struck and not pushed before the fall—beyond saying "Who are you shoving?" he said nothing.

Cross-examined. I had been for five hours in the neighbourhood of the Green Lanes, and as I was returning I met Badkin outside the Star and Garter, and we went in there and had a drink, and remained there for about 10 minutes—after leaving there we went into the Lamb, and stopped there about 20 minutes—then we went home—the Lamb is 200 Yards from Tapping's wood-yard—I did not see a woman and baby come by before the prisoner—no woman passed between us two—the prisoner did not try to pass between us two—he shoved us one each way—there was nobody in front of us or coming towards us—there is a public-house about 20 yards from there, on the opposite side of the road—there were no people coming along from there—we didn't jostle up against the prisoner as he passed by—a policeman came up—the prisoner seemed quite sober—I aid not hear a woman cry out for police.

WALTER MORRIS . I live at Kingsland, and am a pot-maker—on Sunday morning, about a quarter-past 12, I was in the Kingsland Road—the last witness and another man passed me on the pavement—I saw the prisoner go up and shove the two men, one each way—the deceased turned round and said he ought to know better, and the prisoner then turned round and struck him with his fist, and he fell in the road, and he remained lying there until he was picked up—the prisoner then turned round and struck Obanny—I only saw him strike him once.

Cross-examined. I was standing talking to a young woman—the deceased was walking arm-in-arm with Obanny in he middle of the pavement, they passed by me nearer the kerb; the prisoner was coming up behind them, he passed behind me also—I did not see a woman and baby—I did not hear a woman cry for police, I went before the police came—the

deceased was near the kerb, he seemed to fall on his back—that is a very busy part of the neighbourhood.

HARRIET NELSON . I live at 33, Tyssen Street, Kingsland—on Saturday, 6th June, I was at the corner of High Street talking to the last witness—I saw three men coming towards me, I knew Badkin by sight, they were close to me, talking—I saw a woman with a baby walking on in front about two or three steps—they all stopped, and I saw the prisoner punch the deceased in the face, then he hit the other man and had a fight with him—Badkin fell on the ground, his head in the road, and feet on the pavement—I heard a woman scream—there was a crowd.

Cross-examined. The three men were all walking together, side by side when they passed me—this occurred about three or four yards from me—I didn't notice whether the deceased or Obanny jostled up against the prisoner, it happened all in a moment—I had known the prisoner by sight before.

HENRY WELFARE . I keep the Lord Clyde coffee-house, Kingsland, Edward Badkin lodged with me—about half-past 12 on Sunday morning he was brought home by Obanny and two men; he was put to bed—Obanny was sober—the deceased was insensible, and continued so until he died on Monday night at 10 o'clock—the doctor came to see him about 11 o'clock on Sunday.

THOMAS JACKMAN . I am the divisional surgeon of police—I was sent for about two o'clock on Sunday afternoon—I found the deceased in bed, he was perfectly insensible—he had a black eye and a bruise over the right temple, a separate bruise; he died on Monday—I made a post-mortem examination, the cause of death was from the effects of effusion of blood on the brain—if he had been knocked down or fell from a blow and struck his head against the ground that would be sufficient to produce what I saw—it was quite black over the eye, it must have been a very sharp blow with the fist—he was not a healthy man, every organ was diseased.

THOMAS BROCKWELL (Police Sergeant). At 5.50 on 15th June I took the prisoner in custody—I told him I was a police-officer and should take him in custody for violently assaulting Badkin—he said "I was coming up High Street about 12.15 with my wife, she was walking just in front of me and passed between two men—I got in between them, when one said "What is the matter?"—I said "Nothing," and was going to pass on when one shoved me against the other, and then the other shoved me back again and knocked a man down in the road, I didn't know either of them.

Cross-examined. I have made inquiries about the prisoner—he is a respectable man, a rough carpenter; he is married, with one child, and it a sober and well-behaved man.

Witnesses for the Defence.

ALFRED CARR . I am a sack-maker, living at Alma Grove, Kingsland—on Sunday morning I was going up Kingsland Road and saw the prisoner and his wife walking together—two men were standing on the path; they let the prisoner's wife go through and they stopped the prisoner and shoved him, and the man fell on his face and cut his eye—the police came up after that and ordered the people away—I did not see the prisoner that evening to speak to him, I met him about 10 minutes after this occurred, he was sober then.

Cross-examined. I am living close to the prisoner, I did not know the ✗other two men at all—they shoved him with their shoulders—the prisoner ✗shoved the man, and he fell—I didn't see the other man fighting with the prisoner at all.

By the COURT. I did not notice Morris or Nelson there—I was quite near to where these three people were—I should have seen them if they had been there—there was space enough for me to distinguish them.

The prisoner received a good character.

GUILTY. Recommended to mercy by the Jury.Four Months' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-627
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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627. MARGARET LAMB (40) was indicted for and charged on the Coroner's Inquisition with, the manslaughter of Annie Kimble.


SARAH KIMBLE . I am married, and live at 66, Willis Street, Bromley—on Wednesday, 27th May, about 4 in the afternoon, I was coming along St. Leonards Road with Mrs. Dring—the prisoner was walking towards me—some words ensued between her and Mrs. Dring—I had the child, Annie Kimble, in my arms; she was about three months old—the prisoner hit Mrs. Dring and blacked her eye—I begged her not to do ✗it any more, and she said "Then you take it for her," and she hit me three or four times with her fist on my head, and she struck the child on the left side of the forehead—Mrs. Dring took the child from me before I fell—the blow on the child left a red mark, it was done with her doubled fist—I took the baby home and bathed its forehead, and gave it a powder; it seemed all right until the 31st, when it died at 9 o'clock in any arms.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I was sober—I didn't spit in your face—I am sure you struck the child—I was not drunk or dancing in front of you—I was not drinking with your husband; I don't know him—Mrs. Dring and I had three pints of ale in the public-house from half-past 2 till 4; no man was drinking with us.

MARY ANN DRING . I was with Mrs. Kimble on this afternoon—we met the prisoner—she struck me—Mrs. Kimble said "Don't beat the woman like that"—she then hit me again, and hit Mrs. Kimble also—I saw her hit the baby one blow on the left side of the head; it left a red mark.

Cross-examined. I have known you and your husband 22 years, and we have been more like sisters than anything else—I was in the Hearts of Oak, but not with your husband—I live with my own husband—you never asked me not to send for your husband, and I never have sent for him—the baby was in its mother's arms when you struck it.

ANDREW MCGILL . I am a surgeon in St. Leonards Road—on 31st May, about 9 in the morning, I was called to see the child; it had been dead for some time—I made a post-mortem the following Wednesday—there was no external wound—on removing the skull I found that the dura-mater and the pia-mater were inflamed, also the surface of the brain—all the other organs were perfectly healthy and natural—the cause of death was inflammation of the brain, caused by direct violence—such a blow as described might have produced those symptoms.

WALTER BREEN (Police Sergeant). On 4th June I took the prisoner in custody—I told her she would be charged with causing the death of Annie Kimble, aged three months, by striking it on the head on 26th of

last May—she said "I recollect a quarrel with a woman, but the woman I struck had not any baby in her arms; it was the woman that was with her that had the baby."

The Prisoner. I struck the women when they interfered with me, but I never struck the child.

Witnesses for the Defence.

MARGARET PALMER . Mrs. Dring had the baby; the prisoner never touched it—I told the prisoner to go away and have no more to do with it, and she said "She gave me every provocation for doing what I have done."

Cross-examined. I saw the prisoner strike Mrs. Kimble twice; they both fought—Mrs. Kimble never had the baby in her arms at all, Mrs. Dring had it all the time from first to last—Mrs. Dring didn't fight, but she called the prisoner several abusive names, and the prisoner hit he✗ in the face.

EMILY HAYNES . I was standing in a shop and saw this quarrel—I saw Mrs. Dring with the baby in her arms—the prisoner struck her and Mrs. Kimble while the baby was in Mrs. Dring's arms—Mrs. Kimble didn't have the baby at all—I had never seen them before.


There was another indictment against the prisoner for an assault, upon which no evidence was offered.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-628
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

628. JOHN WESTWOOD (22) PLEADED GUILTY to the manslaughter of William Lock. He received a good character.Six Months' Hard Labour.

THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, June 24th, 1885.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-629
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > no evidence
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

629. HENRY CARTER (33) and ELIZA CARTER (29), Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin, and having it in their possession. HENRY CARTER PLEADED GUILTY .— Fifteen Months' Hard Labour. MR. LLOYD, for the prosecution, offered no evidence against ELIZA CARTER.— NOT GUILTY .

For cases tried in this Court on this day see Essex and Surrey Cases.

OLD COURT.—Thursday, June 25th, 1885.

Before Mr. Justice Day.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-630
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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630. VICTOR EMANUEL WICKS (16) PLEADED GUILTY to the manslaughter of Prince George Wicks.— Six Months' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-631
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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631. CAROLINE THOMPSON (33) was indicted for, and charged on the Coroner's Inquisition with, the manslaughter of Matilda Millbank.



BEATRICE JANE GOODSHIP . I am ten years old—I was staying on a visit to my uncle and aunt, Matilda Millbank, at 22, Rochester Row, Westminster, for about two months—they had two rooms on the top floor—my uncle gets up early and goes to work—on the day this occured he had gone to work as usual; he came home to breakfast at 8 and

went to work again—my aunt went out between 9 and 10 to take the clothes to wash—she returned between 12 and 1 with the clothes all wet ✗n a basket; I don't know whether she carried them up, they were out on the landing when I got to the door—my aunt sent me to hang them out; I carried them down stairs to the back yard and hung them on the line to dry and carried the basket upstairs—as I went up I looked out of the landing window and saw the prisoner come out and pull the line down and throw the clothes on the ground—she lives with her husband downstairs, they keep a clog-shop—I told my aunt what the prisoner had done, and from wnat she said I went down again into the back yard, picked up the clothes, and brought them up to my aunt's room—two or three minutes afterwards, while I and my aunt were in the room together, the prisoner came upstairs and opened the door of the room, she picked up a plate off my aunt's table and struck her on the head; she then dragged her down by the shoulders on to the floor and kicked her in the back and thumped her—she did not say anything as she did this—as she was going out at the door she picked up a zinc pail and threw it at her—it struck her on the forehead; she had just got up; she fell down again—as the prisoner shut the door she said "If it was not for my two children I would not leave you alive—my aunt was down on the floor, and blood was running all down her face—shortly after my aunt and I went down stairs to the front door, and I stayed with her till a constable came; he fetched a cab and took her to the Westminster Hospital—I went with her—her wounds were dressed there and she came back bandaged—we walked back—before she was struck she was all right—she had been at home about half an hour before this attack was made upon her—she was sober—she afterwards became ill and went to the hospital and died there.

Cross-examined. I am still living at the house with my uncle—my aunt was quite a sober woman—I never saw her drunk while I was there—I know Mrs. Darling, I saw her at the police-court—I never heard my aunt use any bad language—she was quite sober when she came home this day, she went upstairs and did nothing—she did not go down to the prisoner and abuse her and call her bad names—they did not struggle together on the steps, and my aunt did not fall down—I heard Mrs. Darling examined before the Magistrate—I did not see my aunt go into the yard—I did not see a scuffle by the back door of Mrs. Thompson's room—I did not see Mrs. Milbank in the act of falling down—I did not see what happened downstairs; nothing did happen down stairs; if Mrs. Darling makes any statement of that kind she is mistaken—my uncle or aunt took out a summons against the prisoner for assaulting them—my uncle was not in the place when this took place, he came back a little after 6—I talked this matter over with my uncle and aunt, and they said I should have to go as a witness to the police-court—the summons was not gone into, because aunt died.

Re-examined. I live with my grandmother in Wiltshire, I had only been staying with my aunt two months.

CHARLES EDGE (Policeman B 645). On Thursday, 14th May, I was on duty in Rochester Row at 2.15 p.m.—I saw Mrs. Millbank just inside the passage of 22, bleeding a good deal from a cut on the left side of the forehead, nearly at the top of the head—she told me what had happened and I took her in a cab to Westminster Hospital—she was sober—her

head was dressed and bandaged and she walked back with me to her house—she complained of her landlady.

By the COURT. I had a good deal of conversation with her going along—I am quite satisfied that she was sober—I saw no sign of her having been recently under the influence of drink, she talked quite rationally.

WILLIAM GIMM . I am a painter, of 3, Taylor's Buildings, Westminster—I knew Mrs. Millbank for about five years—I met her on Thursday morning, 14th May, in Rochester Row, going to the baths, she was carrying a basket of clothes—I spoke to her; she was sober then—about a quarter to 12 I was in the Jolly Gardeners public-house in Rochester Row, a few doors from where she lived, and she came in, it was on her road home from the baths—she had a pennyworth of gin and a half-pennyworth of ale mixed, her basket of clothes was on the form—after having the drink she went out and took the basket of clothes with her and went towards home—she was sober when she left the house.

Cross-examined. That was the last I saw of her, there was nothing the matter with her at that time.

By the COURT. The Jolly Gardeners is about 30 yards from her house—she was carrying the basket when she left—I don't know which way she turned—I did not see any other woman with her.

SUSANNAH CHESHIRE . I live at 18, Rochester Row, next door but one to the prisoner—any one coming from the Jolly Gardeners would pass my shop—I knew Mrs. Millbank for some months as a customer—on Thursday, 14th May, she came into my shop, she had a basket of wet clothes—she bought two half-quartern loaves of me and took them away with her—I had some conversation with her; in my judgment she was perfectly sober, no one was with her—she had no marks on her face—about a quarter past 2 she came again to my shop, she was then bleeding from the head.

Cross-examined. I had known her for sometime, dealing at my shop—I could not say whether she was by habit a very drunken woman, I don't wish to have anything to say about that, I have never seen her drunk.

CHARLES DAVID GREEN . I am house surgeon at St. Thomas's Hospital—on 21st May, about 1 o'clock, Mrs. Millbank was admitted there—she had a scalp wound over the upper part of the frontal bone on the left side, it had been dressed—the whole face was much swollen from erysipelas, both eyes were bruised—she had a bruise on the right side of the head, separate from the rest of the general bruising, and a bruise below the angle of the jaw, a bruise three parts round the arm where it had been grasped, also a bruise over the right hip—I attended to her—she died on 24th May at a quarter to 12—she became delirious a few hours after her admission and continued so till she died—she died from erysipelas consequent upon the injuries, she was rather a stout woman—there was no disease of any organ.

Cross-examined. Before the Magistrate I said "She was a stout person and I should say weakened by recent intemperance"—there was nothing to show that she had been intemperate for a long period, but I should say from the character of her delirium she had been addicted to intemperance recently; I mean there was nothing to show that she had been a chronic drunkard, but from the character of her delirium I should say she had been drinking recently.

By the COURT. Persons who drink have a particular kind of delirium, accompanied by restlessness and shaking of the hand—persons having erysipelas do not suffer in that way—I saw no signs of drink in any of the organs, or in any part of the body.

WILLIAM JEFFCOAT (Police Inspector B). On 25th May at 12 o'clock in the day I saw the prisoner at 22, Rochester Row, I was in uniform—I asked her her name—she told me—I told her I should have to take her into custody for causing the death of Mrs. Millbank—she began to make a statement—I said "You had better be careful what you say, whatever you say I shall have to take notice of"—she then said "No one is more sorry than I am"—I took her to the station; she was there charged, but said nothing more.

MR. FULTON desired that a witness (Mrs. Darling) whose name appeared on the back of the bill should be put into the box. MR. POLAND not intending to coll her, MR. FULTON submitted that by the decision of some learned Judges the Counsel for the prisoner were entitled to have such witness called, although the Counsel for the prosecution might exercise their discretion as to asking any questions. MR. JUSTICE DAY was of opinion that Counsel for the prosecution must exercise their discretion upon this matter; they were right in having the witness in attendance, but were not bound to put her in the box if they had reason to consider her evidenes untruthful. MR. FULTON then called the witness on behalf of the prisoner.

ANN DARLING . I am married—I live at 22, Rochester Row—I was at home on Tuesday, 14th May, about midday—Mrs. Millbank lodged in the same house—I saw her come in that morning between 12 and 1 o'clock—I saw nothing in her hand—she was rolling drunk, and used bad language to the prisoner; she said she was f—g and blind drunk, and she would get drunk again—she was often in the habit of getting drunk—during the two months I was lodging there I had not seen her really sober—I saw her go on to the stairs—I could not see her go up to the top—her apartment was on the second floor—in about three-quarters of an hour I saw the little girl Goodship come down and hang some clothes on the line in the yard, without any pegs; there was nothing to keep them on the line—I saw a pinafore fall off—I came up into the yard—I occupy the kitchen below the shop—I saw some more clothes fall to the ground—I saw Mrs. Millbank by the back door; she had a bandage round her head; she was using bad language to the prisoner, who was in her room perfectly sober—I heard a scuffle, and ran upstairs to see what it was, and I saw the prisoner pushing the door of her room close to keep Mrs. Millbank out—there are two steps leading up to the prisoner's room, and Mrs. Millbank was in the act of falling as I got there—I turned down-stairs directly and went into my own room again—I should say she fell from the door being shut against her—I did not see any blow—I never saw anything wrong in the prisoner; she is not a quarrelsome woman; I have never seen her the worse for drink—she is my landlady—there are two lodgers in the first floor front.

Cross-examined. I know the washing place; it is about ten minutes' walk—I did not see Mrs. Millbank that day till she came in rolling drunk—I saw the basket of clothes, I did not see who carried them upstairs; some woman brought them into the passage and set them down on the mat at the foot of the stairs—Mrs. Millbank had the bandage on her head when she brought the clothes back—I did not speak to her—I did not go

to her assistance when she fell—I saw her afterwards standing in the passage bleeding; that was three-quarters of an hour afterwards; she was holding something to her head.

Re-examined. There is a public-house a few doors down—the clothes were brought in by another woman, I do not know who she was—she set them down on the mat, and Mrs. Millbank followed her in, rolling drunk, and with the bandage on her head—that was between 12 and 1 o'clock.

GUILTY .— Eighteen Months' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-632
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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632. URIAH PRATT (30) , Unlawfully sending to the London Central Meat Market 760lb. of unsound and diseased meat, with intent that the same should be sold for human food.


SAMUEL BEASLEY . I am foreman to Mr. William Peckworth, farmer, of Bolton Marsh, near Spalding, Lincolnshire—on 10th April last I turned out two cows into a grass field, and the next morning I found one dead and the other dying—I cut both their throats, and Veterinary Surgeon Medd saw them afterwards—the prisoner came by and said, "You have had a bad job happen this morning"—I said, "I have"—he asked me if I would sell the carcases, and handed me this card, "Pratt's chemical manure for all kinds of Cropping, Pinchbeck, near Spalding. Best price given for all kinds of dead animals"—I said I would sell them for 5l.—he said, "You want too much by half"—I said, "They are worth that to us to boil up"—he then bid me 3l., 3l. 10s., and 3l. 15s., and on going away he said, "What do you say, and I to have them?"—I said, "Not under 4l.," and he gave me a 5l. note, and I gave him 1l. back—he said he wanted them to make guano—we should have boiled them up for the fat.

ALBERT MEDD . I am a veterinary surgeon, of Holbeach, Lincolnshire—I saw the two carcases on the 11th April, at Pinchbeck—the intestines had been removed—I opened the stomach and found a quantity of mustard-seed, from the irritation of which they died—they had not been properly slaughtered or blooded, as required for the market.

Cross-examined. I don't know whether the kidneys had been removed—the intestines had been removed before I got there (the stomach and guts)—the liver had been laid by the side of the intestines—the intestines were not detached from the body.

By the COURT. The liver and kidneys may have been in the animals without my seeing them.

ROBERT CHAMBERLAIN . I am a labourer in the employ of the prisoner, and live at Pinchbeck—between 6 and 7 p.m. on 11th April I was sent for to my master's premises, where I found two dead cows in a cart, and I took them out and put them in my master's shed and helped him skin them—they were left in the shed that night—on Monday morning I was sent to Holbeach with a load of manure, and the prisoner said "As you come from Spalding call and bring two hampers and cloths home with you"—I took them home and left them in the cart, and went home to my tea, and when I went back they were loaded up, and he sent me to Spalding with them—the prisoner had a lot of tickets like this in his place (produced)—I got them when I sent a little pig up to Burchnall in the market—I got to Spalding Railway Station at 8 p.m.—the hampers were

taken out of the cart by Cox, the porter; I tied the labels on them—I believe the heads and offal were left in the shed.

Cross-examined. I cannot read or write—I don't think the prisoner can—he always carries a press in his pocket (A stamp)—I don't think any one else helped us cut them up—I heard the master say "This will do for catsmeat, Bob"—he sent me into his office for two labels—he is a manure merchant, and does not deal in meat, except what he boils up—some has gone to Greenwich for catsmeat.

Re-examined. I have never sent catsmeat up by railway or packed in hampers—I have sent pigs up packed in cloths—I have not sent meat up before packed in hampers I believe—he said "I will send these in your name, Bob, for I am going away for a while, and then there will be some money coming for you to buy corn and coal."

By MR. POLAND. My master often went away in the country buying dead meat, and I was left in charge and had money to buy coals and corn.

JESSE DARLEY . I am a labourer, of Pinchbeck, and servant of the prisoner's—at about 7 p.m. on 11th April I was fetched from home to the shed, where I saw the prisoner and Chamberlain skinning the carcases—they hung them up and I left a little after 10 o'clock—I held the light, and only saw them skin them.

Cross-examined. I never skinned a cow in my life—it is a manure shed, a factory where people work—I did not help to skin them—my master did not say what the cows were for—I did not hear him say they were going up to London for catsmeat.

ISAACS COX . I am foreman porter at the Spalding Railway Station—on the 13th April, at night, Chamberlain came to the station with a cart and two hampers on it, and I made out this consignment-note for him from the labels (produced): "W. Burchnell, two peds meat, London," and then the weight—Chamberlain put his mark to it—I weighed the hampers and sent them away—no other meat was sent up to London that day—the hampers and cloths are supplied by the company for sending up meat to the market—catsmeat does not go up in hampers and cloths that I know of.

Cross-examined. We would not supply them without authority from the agents—a lower rate would be charged for catsmeat—there is some that goes away.

GEORGE JARVIS . I am a superintendent of police stationed at Spalding—the prisoner came to me and said he wished to tell the truth—I said "I shall write and inform the authorities in London about it"—he said "I bought the two cows of Peckworth's foreman, I gave 4l. 10s.; I sold the skins for 31s. 6d., and sent tshe meat to London; I intended it should have gone to Greenwich for catsmeat—I cannot write very well, and I got the label from Chamberlain and took it into the house and got my wife to write the address"—I showed him the label, and he said that was the label he got from Chamberlain—he said the heads and tongues and other parts were left in the shed to be boiled down, and they were shown me by Darley with a dead horse and other things.

Cross-examined. I visited the place the day before, when he was from home, and I left word that I would see him the next day—he boils the entrails of animals for his business—I know him very well.

ROBERT WARWICK . I am a salesman at Burchnell's, meat salesman in

the London Central Meat Market—on the morning of 14th April I saw Chief-Inspector Wylde seize, on the premises of Burchnell, eight quarters of beef, quite unfit for human food—this label (produced) was taken off the meat.

Cross-examined. I am Burchnell's assistant—the meat was very bad—it was never exposed, and would not have been until Mr. Wylde had seen it and passed it—it reached us on the 14th, and was condemned the same day—meat is not always sent up to London directly it is killed, unless it is likely to go bad—they send meat up from the country on Sunday—I saw the meat directly the hampers were open—I could not see any kidneys in it—I did not smell it—I have had dealings with Chamberlain on one or two occasions—I think he sent a pig up—we always send about two tickets back with the cheque, in case the consignor has more to send.

WILLIAM WYLDE . I am Chief-Inspector of Meat and Slaughter Houses under the Commissioners of Sewers—Mr. Burchnell, of the London Central Meat Market, is one of the salesmen there—it is one of the public markets in the metropolis for the sale of meat for human food—no catsmeat is sold there—on 14th April, at 7 a.m., I went to the premises of Burchnell, where I found eight quarters of beef, the carcases of two cows—I at once saw that they were unfit for food, and seized them—I have been Inspector of the Market for 24 years, during which time I have seen a good deal of diseased meat, and, of course, a larger quantity of good meat—they were the carcases of cows that had died from an inflammatory disease—the flesh was in a stinking condition, and totally unfit for food—the kidneys were not there, but had been cut away, and parts of the animals were trimmed and dressed in the same way as meat for the market—there is a little misunderstanding about its not being exposed for sale—all the meat in the market is exposed for sale, for sometimes it is sold in hampers—it was not openly exposed or hung up for sale—it was shown to the Medical Officer of Health for London and taken before the Magistrate and condemned—it weighed 760lb.

Cross-examined. People would have bought such meat—I could tell it was bad meat by testing it and the smell, and by the blood in the carcases—you might not find it was bad by putting your nose to it, but by making an incision in the flesh you would—it was in such a state that I saw it was unfit for human food before I tested it—no respectable buyer would have bought it—it was chopped in half and quartered, two hind-quarters and two fore-quarters, eight quarters in all—it is not the custom to dress good meat by cutting off portions of the feet as in this case—I knew it was an unusual sort of dressing—such meat as this will sell in the market, and is used for sausages and condiments.

WILLIAM SEDGWICK SAUNDERS . I am an M.D., and have been for 11 years Medical Officer of Health and Food Analyst for the City of London—I saw the meat referred to on the morning of the 14th—it was very much discoloured by blood—it was wet and soft, and had not set as sound meat sets—it was dressed as for ordinary sale in the market for human food, and there was evidently, as the inspector said, signs of certain parts having been cut away, the marks of the knife being left—the kidneys, for instance, were absent, which is an uncommon thing in prime beef—the flesh was that of animals that had died of disease, and not property butchered—it was quite unfit for human food, and if it had been so consumed I think it would have been injurious to health.

Cross-examined. I have had large experience with meat, and I understand how it should be dressed—the kidney fat was cut away—I saw no evidence of the external flesh being out away—you mean, perhaps, portions of the flank (skirt, technically), that would be the thin belly part—it presented the ordinary appearance of being quartered as an animal is, in the usual way for the market—as a rule, you see nothing of the entrails or liver, that is all gone with what is called the pluck—when I say the meat was dressed, I mean it was put into such a condition and shape as would tempt a buyer to buy it for human food—a portion of the flank was cut away; I should not like to say that anything else was—the kidneys are embedded in an enormous amount of fat—the whole had been cut away—probably there was some adhesion of an inflammatory nature, but that is all assumption.

By the COURT. The lowest price of meat at the Central Market is about 5d. for the lowest quality, up to 8d. for prime quality.

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment without Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-633
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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633. RICHARD HANCOCK (40) , Feloniously setting fire to four ricks, the goods of John Sheppard.

MR. MUIR Prosecuted.

HERBERT EDWARDS (Policeman X 169). I was on duty at Hayes Police-station on the morning of the 20th May, when the prisoner came to the station and made a statement to me—I cautioned him, and said anything he might say would be taken down and used as evidence against him if required—he made no reply—I then took his statement down, and read it over to him, and he signed it. (Read: "Hayes Station, 20th May, 1885,—I beg to report that at 4.30 a.m. on the 20th inst. Richard Hancock came to this station and said, 'Are you on duty here?' I said 'Yes,' He said 'I have come to give myself up for setting fire to some hay-ricks at Colham Green.' I said 'Did you set light to them?' He said 'Yes.'") Colham Green is near my district, and I had heard of the fire that morning—he was sober when he came to me.

JOHN SHEPPARD . I am a farmer, and live at Colham Green, Hillingdon, Middlesex—on the 20th May, at 12.30 a.m., a communication was made to me, in consequence of which I went to my rick-yard, and saw a rick of straw alight—after a few minutes the next caught, and in a quarter of an hour or 20 minute all four were burnt down—they were safe the night before.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I wish to say if I did make a statement to Police Constable Edwards I was not aware of it, and am not aware of having done so. I have been a soldier in India, and have had a sunstroke. On the 16th instant I was discharged from Stone Lunatic Asylum, having been sent there from Amersham under the name of Frederick Pollock."

CHARLES COOK (Policeman X 103). I have known the prisoner about eight years, and have no reason to believe his mind is affected.

The prisoner in his defence said that in 1864 he enlisted, and while in India he got a sunstroke, which greatly affected his mind; that he was discharged from the army, he was sorry to say, with a bad character; he had enlisted five different times, and had given himself up every time when he was rather queer; that he had served five years' penal servitude for setting fire to a stack of hay;

and that he could not remember setting fire to the rich in question, or having made the statement.

HERBERT EDWARDS (Re-examined). The prisoner appeared to be perfectly sane when he came to me.

CHARLES COOK (Re-examined). We have a letter from the Asylum, stating that he was discharged from Stone on the 16th—I have never known him show signs of insanity—I believe he has been in India—I heard from his brother five years ago that he had a sunstroke in India—I have also heard it lately.

GUILTY . The indictment further charged the prisoner with having been previously convicted at Aylesbury, to which he PLEADED GUILTY.— Judgment respited.

NEW COURT.—Wednesday and Thursday, June 24th and 25th, 1885.

Before Mr. Recorder.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-634
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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634. JOHN JONES (18) PLEADED GUILTY to stealing a watch and 20l. of Thomas Arthur Wilson from his person.— Six Months' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-635
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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635. THOMAS SLADE (35) to stealing a portmanteau and contents value 90l., the property of Sydney Hudson; also to stealing a bag and other articles value 20l., the property of Malcolm Whatley.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Eighteen Months' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-636
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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636. FREDERICK BRADSHAW (16) to stealing a cheque-book of Thomas Wells, his master; also to feloniously forging and uttering an order for 1l. with intent to defraud; also an order for 2l. 10s. with intent to defraud.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Six Months' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-637
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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637. GEORGE WILMOTT ** (31) to burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Richard Pinchain with intent to steal, having been convicted of felony in February, 1877.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Nine Months' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-638
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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638. LOUIS CLIFFORD ** (36) to stealing postage stamps and other articles in the dwelling-house of George Meech, having been convicted of felony at this Court in February, 1883.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Five Years' Penal Servitude.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-639
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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639. JOHN WHATLEY (46) to unlawfully obtaining 7l. 5s. from David Cohen by false pretences, after a conviction of a similar offence at Winchester in April, 1882, in the name of Henry Beecham Burton ; also to forging and uttering an endorsement to an order for 5l., with intent to defraud.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Fifteen Months' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-640
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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640. JOHN DALTON (60) [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] to breaking and entering the shop of John Richard Dean and stealing a pair of boots.— Four Months' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-641
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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641. MAURICE HANDS ** (19) [Pleaded guilty: see original trial image.] to burglary in the dwelling-house of Alexander Davidson and stealing one ounce of tobacco, after a conviction at Worship Street in November, 1880.— Three Months' Hard Labour. AndM

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-642
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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642. JOHN DALY (19) [Pleaded guilty:see original trial image] to unlawfully wounding Elizabeth Whiting t.— Three Months' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-643
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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643. ROBERT LEWIS (36), who PLEADED GUILTY last Session (See page 216) to certain counts of an indictment for fraudulent bankruptcy, now PLEADED GUILTY to the whole indictment.— Twelve Months' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-644
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

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644. WILLIAM PINK (52) , Unlawfully writing and publishing a false and defamatory libel of and concerning Emanuel Boutcher, to whichhe put in a plea of justification and that it was for the public benefit. (The libels were on post-cards, on one of which he charged the prosecutor with forgery.)

MESSRS. GRAIN and STUDD Prosecuted.

EMANUEL BOUTCHER . I am the head of the firm of Boutcher, Martineaux, and Co., of Bermondsey—I have known the prisoner about 12 years—he kept wine vaults in Old Broad Street—I went there very often and purchased wine of him—he afterwards took a public-house—I believe he was a schoolmaster once—I advanced him money at various times, more than 100l.—on 24th July, 1884, I saw him in the City Club, Old Broad Street—I had written to him in a weak moment to come there and give me an explanation of his affairs, and I would see if I could help him—he came and I gave him a cheque for 30l.—these letters of July 23rd and 24th, 1884, are in his writing—I next heard from him on January 1st, 1885; he wrote on December 31st, 1884. (In this letter the prisoner asked the witness to lend him 6l. to enable him to pay his quarter's rent and taxes.) I afterwards received these letters of February 21st, March 12th, and March 18th—it is not true that I asked him to forego any prosecution against me—he did not tell me that he had abandoned on my appeal his idea of prosecuting me for a first offence—I am not aware that I have done any act for which I can be criminally prosecuted—I had received prior to that from the porter at the Reform Club this post-card stamped "Leyton, Feb. 9," and signed "W. Pink"—it is in the prisoner's writing—there is not a word of truth in it—Mr. Wild is a wine merchant. (A letter of March 18th, 1885, signed "W. Pink," to the witness, stated, "I went before the Magistrate yesterday on the matter of your letters, and am going again to-morrow.") I had at that time been to my present solicitors and given them full instructions to write to Mr. Pink and to accept process—I was just recovering from an illness—until I took proceedings at Bow Street I was not aware that this post-card had been sent—it is in Pink's writing, and I received it from Mr. Langsford at Mr. Wild's office. (This was dated July 3rd, 1884, addressed to the witness, to the care of Messrs. Wild and Son, complaining of his "scurrilous letter," it stated, "I now charge you in addition with having committed wilful and deliberate forgery.") I have never committed forgery in my life, nor has the prisoner ever made a serious charge against me—on one letter which I wrote to him I put the word "Granville," like the franks which we used to have—that was done in joke; I never attempted to forge Lord Granville's writing, I never saw it. (A letter from Messrs. Kays and Guedella to the prisoner, dated March 19th, was here put in, informing him that if he continued to annoy Mr. Boutcher proceedings would be taken against him. ) After that I consulted with my solicitors, and took out a summons against Pink in Bow Street—there has been no impropriety on my part in any shape or form as regards Pink, I have been uniformly kind to him, and was never indebted to him a shilling, quite the other way.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. We were not friends up to April 1, 1884, you were everlastingly writing me letters for money—we were not enemies—my firm received this telegram on April 1, and I saw it next day when I went to the office, and read it; it is "Where can I see Boutcher? very important"—I did not sit down directly and write you a libellous letter, I wrote and asked you whether you had sent the telegram—I suppose the name and address were unknown to my firm—it injured

me because it set people inquiring what it meant—looking at this envelope I suppose I wrote you a letter to the Reform Club on April 3rd—your first charge against me of committing forgery was not by this post-card, you had mentioned it in one of your letters—I received about twenty-five post-cards from you—you wrote to Lord Granville, and his secretary replied—all your letters to me were returned, but not all the envelopes—I wrote this letter to you. (Dated City of London Club, 24th July, appointing a meeting to destroy all the letters.)—you kept that appointment and I suppose you brought all my letters—I received them as all; I had no record of them, but in good faith I took them as every scrap of writing you had—I read them all through and burnt them one after the other, keeping back one or two for my own justification hereafter, because I knew what a customer you were—my object was to get rid of the correspondence, to burn it—you had been threatening me with an action which you knew you could not bring—I did not say "We cannot burn them here, I will take them home"—they were not burnt before you, but I promised to burn them all—you gave me yours—I must have burnt them at home; at all events they were destroyed—I received the card from Messrs. Wild about three weeks ago, after I had decided on taking proceedings—I never heard of it till Messrs. Wild said "By the bye, we have one of those cards now"—I had burnt the cards I was going to bring to prove that I had received them—on January 9th I wrote "Dear Sir,—Yours of yesterday to date. I must decline all further correspondence and shall reply to no further letters from you"—after the meeting, when we had shaken hands once or twice, I did not say to you to my knowledge "Now go home and write me a letter stating that all is over between us"—I will not swear that I did not—we very likely shook hands and parted friends—I did not pat you on the back and say "We have been two fools"—I did not say to my knowledge "If I ever can be your friend I will"—I will not swear I did not—I do not think it is twenty years since I lent you 100l., and I did not lend it, I looked upon it as gone—I had no acknowledgment—I will swear you did not pay it back—on receiving this post-card I wrote and said that it was libellous, and that I would give you an opportunity of proving that you were mad—when I found that you were taking action against me I turned round and issued this process—I was security for you to Mr. Wild, wine merchant, my brother-in-law—he is dead—no doubt I volunteered it, but you must have known it—I did not force you to sell wine to your brother-in-law against your will.

RICHARD TURNER LANGSFORD . I am one of the firm of Wild and Co., wine merchants, of St. Martin's Lane, Cannon Street—this postcard came with the letters—I kept it a week or two, and then gave it to Mr. Boutcher—I believe Mr. Boutcher was once guarantee for the prisoner for a certain quantity of wine.

Cross-examined. I read the card, but did not show it to anybody—I put it in the cash-box, and it remained there till about three weeks ago, when Mr. Potter, one of my partners, took it out, and said "Oh, here is another postcard, Mr. Boutcher, perhaps it may be of use to you!"—Mr. Boutcher had said that he should require one of us to give evidence about the receipt of the cards.

The prisoner in his defence complained that the prosecutor had been libelling him for years, and had taken these proceedings in order to stop proceedings

on his (the prisoner's) part, and was actuated by revenge, as the prisoner had denounced him to the committee of his club, of which Lord Granville was the chairman, to whom he had forwarded the prosecutor's envelope, which pretended to bear his Lordship's signature; he contended that as they had mutually forgiven each other for all that had happened up to the end of July those matters ought not to be brought forward again, but the prosecutor had obtained the letters in order to stop a prosecution by the prisoner under pretence of burning them, but kept them to use them against him and crush him; he complained that the prosecutor had used his office for drinking and gambling, and denied ever having seen the last post-card.

RICHARD TURNER LANGSFORD (Re-examined by the Prisoner). You did business with our house years ago—I have not seen you write orders, endorse bills, or sign cheques, but I am acquainted with your writing—I will not swear that this card is your writing, but to the best of my belief it is.

EMANUEL BOUTCHER (Re-examined). I will swear this card is your writing—I did not constantly have a bottle of gin and a bottle of brandy at your office—I have smoked there, and have thrown dice, not for money, but for a pint of champagne—I never sat there from 10 o'clock to 4 o'clock, or had three bottles of brandy in one day—I never had a bottle of whisky there; I never saw anything but gin—I have had a bottle of gin there—I do not know how many I have paid for—I was not there every day—I went there to look for friends, and of course to drink now and then—I have given you wine orders—I did not constantly go out when there was no excitement and purchase something to gamble for—I have never gambled there except tossing—Mr. Lucas who is dead was a friend of mine; he very likely spent the greater part of his time in your place, and money has passed between us in gambling.

GUILTY . The Jury stated that the prisoner's defence greatly aggravated the libel.— Three Months' Imprisonment without Hard Labour, and to be further imprisoned till he enters into recognisances to keep the peace.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-645
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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645. JOSEPH APLIN SCOTT (30) , Unlawfully obtaining a cheque for 5,000l. from John Drake, with intent to defraud.

MR. GRAIN conducted the Prosecution; MR. MONTAGU WILLIAMS Defended

the prisoner.

JOHN DRAKE . I am managing financial clerk to Messrs. Dyster, Nalder, and Co., of 6, Crosby Square, hide brokers, who did business with Beazley Browne and Co., of Catherine Court, Tower Hill, whose partner, the prisoner Scott, has for some time negotiated advances with me for the purpose of taking up documents of title in respect of shipments—I was in the habit of advancing large sums of money without the documents of title being handed to me, on the promise that they should be handed to me in a day or two or in course of post—in March, 1885, I advanced to Scott 3,800l. on hides shipped on board the Illawarra, without receiving the documents at the moment, but I received them two or three days afterwards, or at the outside four days—about March 13th Scott came to our office, and said that he had another lot of hides coming, and he should want some more money in a few days—I said "Very well, what for?"—he said "Hides"—I said "How much do you want, and when?"—he said "Oh, it will be about 5,000l., and about next month, I will give you particulars later on, and let you know the exact amount"

—he called again on Monday, March 16th, and brought this paper (produced)—these pencil marks were on it when he gave it to me: "5251, 4108, 22 calf skin, 3201; total 290,375 net, 17,267 tare, 307,638 gross"—in consequence of what he said I wrote on the paper "Further lot per Illawarra, want 5,000l. " in red ink, and also "5,200l.," being the amount he told me the bill was drawn for—I also wrote "Send 5,000l.," because I had told him that 5,200l. was too much—these notes were made in his presence—I asked him what ship, and he said "Illawarra"—I said "Oh, then it is a further parcel by the Illawarra?"—he said "Yes"—I then agreed to advance the 5,000l. and caused a cheque to be drawn for it, which was sent to the office with a printed slip by a clerk, and it has been paid—I sent a clerk to the office for the documents, but did not receive them, and I did not see the prisoner till the Thursday or Friday following, when he came to our office; and I told him it was too bad to keep us without the documents, and we ought to have them—he said "It is too bad, you ought to have had them; it is too bad of our Bristol firm not to have sent them up and to cause me to have to come and apologise to you for not giving them"—I pressed him for them, and he said he would write that night and say that he must have them at once—he had said nothing about the Bristol firm before or as to where the documents were—on Monday, March 21st, I sent a clerk for the documents, and in the afternoon I saw the prisoner—he said that he was very sorry, but he could not help it, and if he could not give me the documents next morning he would return me the money—I said "Yes, you must do that, we cannot go on any longer"—I did not receive them, but received this letter in the prisoner's writing: "London, 23rd March, 1885. Sir,—I have for many months been making use of your firm to sell our Australian goods, and took an advance of 5,000l. on the 15th instant with the intention of paying you this or giving you requisite cover. I find on looking into affairs that I was wrong, and have without my knowledge played the liar, inasmuch as I have professed to be able to meet your advance. Yours truly, Scott." I then went to his office, but could not see him—I spoke to Mr. Browne on the subject, and in consequence of what he and the clerk told me I communicated with our solicitors and took out a warrant at Guildhall against Scott—I believed his statement as to a second shipment coming by the Illawarra and that the documents of title would be in my hands in a short time—I have not been paid back any portion of the 5,000l. or received any documents by the Illawarra—she has arrived, but there was no second parcel on her belonging to Messrs Browne, only the parcel on which we advanced the first sum and received the documents.

Cross-examined. I believe my firm have commenced an action against Browne and Co. for the 5,000l., which is proceeding—I am not certain that the documents in respect of the 3,800l. advanced came within four or five days, but they generally do—I am not prepared to say the exact date—we have done business with the firm of Browne and Co., father and son, nearly 30 years, and since June, 1882, the amount is probably 100,000l.—this document was sent with the 5,000l. cheque: "Dyster, Nalder, and Co., to account of goods"—that is the ordinary way in which we send—this other is one of our extraordinary documents—this account says, "Barque Sir W. Raleigh, documents to be handed us 2,000l. "—the ship is specified there—it occasionally occurs that two consignments to

the same firm come by the same vessel—the 5,000l. cheque was paid into the partnership account at the London and County Bank in London, not at Bristol—until the papers arrived the only security we had for the 3,800l. was the statement that the hides would come by a certain ship, and a promise to hand over the papers—that was the ordinary mode of dealing—I do not know that since the arrival of the Illawarra hides have been dispatched from Beazley Browne and Co. to a larger amount than 5,000l.—on 4th March the prisoner showed me an invoice of the skins shipped by the Illawarra—we had some memorandum, some note of the particulars—I communicated with the prisoner the same day, saying that the weight was not sufficient to cover the amount advanced, and he came and said that the invoice weight he had given me was wrong—that the hides averaged 53 and a decimal, thereby giving me an idea that I could advance him the amount which I had refused to do on his copy of weights—I made the advance at 18s. per hide—the second advance was to be on 5,701 skins—that left very little cover, nearly 200l.—we always treated them very liberally—we do not always advance in that way—we regulate our system of advance by the people we do business with—we did not always value the hides at that amount—18s. per hide is not the usual price; it varies with the market and the state of the hides—I based the calculation on the previous parcel, which proved to be 18s. a hide, therefore I advanced that sum on them, leaving a small cover—the tare is added to the net, and not deducted, to arrive at the gross; that is done to explain the weight on the bill of lading—it does not matter which is done—I do not remember the prisoner telling me that he had consulted his partner, Mr. Beazley Browne, about the tare in the 3,800l. advanced, or any discussion about it—I will not undertake to swear that he did not—this paper (produced) does not refer to the 3,800l.,—I cannot say whether he said that he would work out the figures and bring them back to me—I do not remember his telling me he had worked out the figures with his partner, and had come to explain them to me—he did not tell me on March 16th that taking all the purchase-notes which had been sent by Warner Browne from Australia they showed a consignment to England of 5,701 skins, including 4,666 by the Illawarra, that I state positively—I added the words in red ink "per Illawarra"—he put nothing on the document to show that it was per Illawarra—I have not a distinct remembrance of the conversation when Scott called on me on March 13—I am quite prepared to say that he did not say that the second consignment of goods was to follow, and a second consignment by the Illawarra—if he had named the Duke of Athol and given me every particular of goods sufficient to cover the advance, I should have advanced the amount just the same.

Re-examined. I always required from him the name of the ship by which the goods were coming, and also the name of the particular goods—I have no doubt whatever that I wrote this "Illawarra" in consequence of what Scott said—I wrote it at the time in the office, and in his presence.

Thursday, June 25th.

JOHN BEAZLEY BROWNE . I am the head of the firm Beazley Browne and Co., 6, Catherine Court, Seething Lane—I always considered the defendant a partner since March last, but I believe it is a legal point—he occupied the position of a partner in the firm, and I had another

partner, Mr. Charles Haycock, who for the last year or two has carried on a branch business at Bristol—I attend principally to the River Plate, the hide, and the Smyrna and Colonial and Australian business—we receive shipment of hides from Australia; my brother is our representative there—I was pretty well acquainted with the quantity of hides to be sold coming by the ships—I knew of a consignment coming by the Illawarra; we had obtained a loan on a consignment by her of 3,800l. from Messrs. Dyster, Nalder, and Co.—I went out to Australia in 1881 and 1882, but I did not attend to the finances myself—I do not know when the documents were sent out—they must be sent, and they were sent—I know nothing about the books, Mr. Scott and Mr. Chalk, a clerk, kept them—Mr. Scott had the entire conduct of the financial arrangements, the borrowing of money—I know that a bill-book was kept, but I do not know whether there was a book in which bills of lading would be entered—I know nothing of the banking account, and have known nothing of it for a long time past; Mr. Scott knows about it—I understand since that this cheque for 5,000l. was paid into our banking account—it is crossed, and my firm have received the money—Mr. Haycraft is a junior partner—the Illawarra has arrived, and about 5,000 hides were consigned to us by her—I do not know the exact number, but I understand that that was the consignment upon which the prisoner borrowed 3,800l.—there was no other consignment to us by the Illawarra to my knowledge—I believe I heard of other consignments coming by the Illawarra to some other firm, but it did not impress me—I heard of no other consignment by her to our firm—on 16th March, 1885, when this 5,000l. was paid in to our bank by Mr. Scott, I believed our firm to be solvent, but it was proved not to be; we are now in bankruptcy—I believe the amount of our deficiency is between 35,000l. and 40,000l.—I did not know where the 5,000l. came from—I had no conversation with Mr. Scott about it—I did not know that it had been obtained till I saw Mr. Drake on March 24th—Mr. Scott was not there then—I might possibly have drawn money out between March 16th and March 24th—I do not know positively—after seeing Mr. Drake on March 24th I saw Mr. Scott on the following Sunday, and Mr. Kreighlinger, who was with me, spoke to him about the deficiency—we were told that we must not converse much with Mr. Scott—the subject of our conversation was that he did not believe it possible that there were any deficiencies—the 5,000l. had been mentioned in my conversation with Mr. Drake, but there was no conversation with Mr. Scott about it—I have never spoken to him on the subject, nor has he to me.

Cross-examined. The prisoner's interest in the firm was firstly one-eighth share, and then one-sixth—this cheque for 5,000l. was paid into our London bank, and I heard that it was afterwards transferred to the Bristol account; some portion of it passed into the firm—my brother in Australia, Mr. Warren Browne, ships the hides to us—on 16th March, when this cheque was drawn, I believe, we had advices of a consignment of hides from him by the Duke of Athol—we also had a consignment by the Orronsay, which has arrived lately—I believe that was to a considerable amount over 5,000l.—Mr. Scott was aware of the arrival of that shipment—the Duke of Athol has not arrived yet; the Illawarra arrived a few weeks since—I can't tell you the date—on 16th March, as far as I know, Mr. Scott had reason to believe that he would be justified in obtaining

advances on the shipments by the Duke of Athol and the Orronsay, and the documents in regard to this shipments would arrive about the middle of March—about the middle of March, when I was having lunch at the Falstaff, Mr. Scott came to me and introduced the subject of Kreighlinger's credit, saying that he was afraid my brother was running short of funds in Australia—I said "I do not see how that can be, considering Kreighlinger's credit is current"—Mr. Scott had arranged in my office for a credit of 15,000l., 5,000l. a month—I said that my brother would want more one month than another, and it was mentioned as 15,000l. in three mouths—I understood that if any portion of it ran off it would come on again—Mr. Scott took a different view from me—he said afterwards at my office "Whether the credit be recurrent or not I have arranged the the matter"—he did not say what he had arranged to do, or anything about documents; I thought it was arranged and there was an end of it—I did not interfere with our banking arrangement in any way—I understood that the money would be forthcoming; the Illawarra had started, and the documents had been sent on, so that, I should say, it could not apply to that—I do not know to what extent we have done business with Dyster, Nalder, and Co. in the way of advance; it is very large—I can't form any definite idea—Mr. Scott came down to me, and said that he was afraid there was some mistake in the shipping weights; the hides were so light—I think it was before his interview with regard to the advance of 3,840l.—I replied "There are a large number of calfs' skins and horses' skins, you must eliminate those before you can get at the weight of the salted hides"—he subsequently told me that he had found out how it was, it would be accounted for by the tare, which if added to the net would give the shipping weight; it is usual to deduct the tare, but in this paper (produced) the tare is added—I believe the documents received show the average tare; but not the actual tare, not the average tare that was last sent; I had to purchase the weight, and he gave the average tare at the end of the shipment I believe generally—I do not know that the question of the tare in the 3,848l., the regular consignment by the Illawarra, was in dispute with Dyster, Nalder, and Co.—I have been informed that the 5,000l. appears in our books as passing regularly into the firm, and Dyster, Nalder, and Co. are suing us for it; the action is still going on—I had every reason to believe that we were then solvent—I believe that there were 6,700 hides shipped by the Orronsay, and there has been no advance upon them on 16th March to my knowledge—I believe there were about 200 tons of bark shipped by the Duke of Athol, value about 2,000l.—I can't say whether there had been any advances upon that on 16th March—after Dyster, Nalder, and Co. communicated with me I saw Mr. Scott; he was then in a terrible state of health—his doctor said that he was hardly accountable for his acts, and forbade us to speak to him—that is the reason I did not speak to him on the subject.

Re-examined. The Duke of Athol brought no hides, only bark, but hides consigned to us came by the Orronsay—we had not obtained a loan of 2,500l. on those—hides were hypothecated by the bank after the firm was in difficulty—I can't tell you whether the shipments by the Orronsay were drawn against, they would be in the ordinary way; we had power to borrow on them here—when I was in Australia I made arrangements with the manager of the Union Bank of Australia that our agent should

buy hides every week for a month or five weeks, till the shipment was complete, and those hides were to go to the office to be held till the hides were on board the vessel to be drawn upon, and my brother in Australia sent in weekly a list of the purchases he had made, and notified to me what shipments had been made, with the name of the ship, and they would be known to Mr. Scott—in the ordinary course of business he had the conduct of the financial part of the business, opening the letters, seeing what consignments were coming by different ships, and buying or not, as he thought fit—I did not interfere with him, only as to purchases—we had obtained in advance 2,800l. on the shipment by the Illawarra.

SIDNEY ALBERT CHALK . In March this year I was a clerk at Beazley Browne and Co.'s—Mr. Scott opened the foreign and colonial letters as a rule, read them, and would probably keep them together—this letter was received and, to the best of my knowledge, opened by him. (This was dated Sydney, 12th January, 1885, from Warren W. Browne, complaining that the writer of their letter had done all in his power to make it appear that he, W. W. Browne, was in the wrong, and stating that statements in their letters were often unfounded. He enclosed invoices of 4,667 hides, per Illawara, and stated that he had drawn on Messrs. G. and C. Kreighlinger for 3,801l. 13s. 3d., and advised them by the same mail; that he hoped to be able to buy about 200 tons of bark for shipment by the Duke of Athol in about two months, which ship would probably also take the next shipment of hides.) We kept no consignment book—I never heard of any of the shipment per Illawarra, amounting to 3,800l.—I know that an advance was obtained of 3,000l. from Dyster, Nalder, and Co. against this shipment—the bills of lading were sent on to them about ten days after the advance had been made—I kept the cash-book; I entered this cheque for 5,000l. in it in the course of business—Mr. Scott gave it to me—I asked him what account I was to charge it to, and he said "To the Australian account"—he did not tell me anything about the documents—on March 4th I received 3,800l. against the first shipment—I saw Mr. Scott when he was at Seymour Street, and asked him if there was a shipment coming by the lllawarra—he did not say anything relating to the shipment—he said that the 5,000l. he got on the 16th March was a loan—I asked him about the second shipment, because all the trouble had arisen on the Monday—Dyster, Nalder, and Co. had sent over to the office on Monday about the second shipment, and Mr. Drake had come there to ask for the documents of the second shipment—Mr. Scott was not there then, and Mr. Drake had a conversation with Mr. Browne in my presence, and I saw Mr. Scott during the week and asked him if there was a second shipment by the Illawarra—he said that the 5,000l. he got was a loan, but he said nothing about the second shipment—I remember telling him afterwards, that Messrs. Dyster, Nalder, and Co. had sent across for the documents of the Illawarra—he said that he would attend to it—the Illawarra had arrived, and I believe there was only one shipment by her.

Cross-examined. When I had the conversation with him at Seymour Street he said that the 6,000l. was a loan from Dyster, and that after the payment of the 5,000l. the next shipment was to be given to them—when the clerk came over for the documents on 19th March I asked him what documents he meant—he said that he did not know—Mr. Scott was engaged with me on the books most of the week, commencing March 16th, and on Sunday, March 22nd, I went up to him and fully examined all

the stocks, and, to the best of my belief he then became aware of the position of the firm—I was present at the interview between Mr. Browne and Mr. Drake on March 24th, and heard Mr. Drake told that advices of hides subsequent to those by the Illawarra were expected, and would come forward in due course—Mr. Browne said "May not Mr. Scott refer to the next shipment?"—Mr. Drake said no, he was sure it would be the Illawarra—this (produced) is Mr. Scott's writing; I have seen it before—I saw it on the day it was made up—it was in the drawer, and I gave it to the solicitor; it is headed "Cash required, 18th March, 9,500l. "—the after-part is his charge for interest and commission on various accounts, that is the usual bankers' commission.

Re-examined. A loan was falling due from Brown and Co. on that day—we had to pay 4,500l. to the bank, but we also obtained a further loan of 4,500l.—we wanted to raise 5,000l. that day, and 3,800l. more in order to carry out the engagements of the firm—the balance of 3,800l. was obtained on that day from somebody, I can't tell you who or on what.

JOHN FAIRBURN . I am a clerk in the London and Counties Bank head office; Browne and Co. banked there—on 23rd March Mr. Scott came there and presented this cheque "Pay J. H. Scott, cash, 300l. J. B. B.," endorsed "T. A. Scott"—he asked if bank notes were easily exchangeable abroad—I said "Yes," but suggested circular notes at safer—alter further conversation to the same effect he decided to take bank notes, and received the 300l. in 10l. bank notes.

Cross-examined. I have not been called as a witness till to-day—I do not know what became of the notes.

S. A. CHALK (Re-examined by MR. WILLIAMS ). I remember Mr. Scott asking Mr. Browne what notes he would like for going abroad—Mr. Browne was going abroad.

By MR. GRAIN. I have heard that the notes were sent to Mr. Scott's brother at Liverpool—I do not know where they are.

ALLEN WALTER HAWK . I am a clerk to Dyster, Nalder, and Co., I know the firm of Beazley Browne and Co.—I was sent there by Mr. Drake on 23rd March, saw Mr. Scott, and told him that Mr. Drake had sent me on for the documents about the Illawarra—he interrupted me and said "Oh, you have come on for these documents"—he was coming out at the door as I met him and said that Mr. Drake had sent me and was surprised at his not sending them before—he said "I have the documents, I am coming over with them now, I shall be at the office as soon as you are"—I went back directly.

Cross-examined. I fix the date as 23rd March because next morning we received a letter from Mr. Scott and I made a note of it; I believe it is on my blotting pad at the office now, but it may be destroyed—I only went once for the documents—I spoke to him on the mat at the door, but I should think any one in the office could hear what was said; it is a small office and a quiet building.

The prisoner received a good character.


22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-646
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

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646. ALBERT JAMES GOODE (44) , Maliciously publishing a libel concerning Hyman Rothernberg.

MR. CRISPE, for the prosecution, offered no evidences.


22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-647
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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647. CONSTANCE ADELAIDE MITCHENER, Unlawfully publishing a libel of and concerning Percy Gaskin, to which she pleaded NOT GUILTY and a justification.

MR. RAVEN Prosecuted; MR. FRITH Defended.

The particulars of this case are unfit for publication.


22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-648
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

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648. WILLIAM MITCHENER was indicted for a like offence, to which he pleaded NOT GUILTY and a justification.

MR. RAVEN offered no evidence.


22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-649
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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649. HERBERT STANLEY (17) , Unlawfully obtaining 160 boxes of cigarette papers with intent to defraud.

ROBERT MILLER . I am warehouseman at Crossbills, Roche, and Co., of 56, Carter Lane—on 22nd May the prisoner came and said, "I have come from Mr. Barber, of Dalston, for 100 boxes of cigarette papers; I will take 50 with me, and call or send for the other 50 to-morrow"—I showed him a case conteining 160—he said "That will do; can it be taken in a cab?"—he got a cab—I assisted him, and he took them away—he signed for them, "H. Stanley"—this box (produced) is similar to them.

Cross-examined. I am quite sure you are the person—I picked you out from two others on Islington Green—no one pointed you out.

EDWARD BARBER . I am an agent and traveller, of 1, Bloomfield Street, Dalston, and am a customer of Mr. Miller—I do not know the prisoner—I did not authorise him to obtain these cigarette papers—he never delivered them to me.

ROLAND BIGNELL . I am a tobacconist, of 183, Upper Street, Islington—on 30th May the prisoner offered me 100 boxes of cigarette papers simtlar to this—I bought five of them.

BERESFORD THOMAS FOYLE . I am a tobacconist, of 37, Houndsditch—I bought some cigarette papers similar to this, not of the prisoner—on one occasion the prisoner was with the man, but took no part in the deal—I have bought several times of the man for six months—my first deal with him was in February—I bought one parcel on 23rd May—the man was alone then—I keep no books—I pay ready money—I give job prices—this is the receipt.

WILLIAM PALMER (City Detective 464). On 9th June I was with Miller, who pointed out the prisoner to me with two other young men on Islington Green—I said to him "I am a police officer; you will be charged with obtaining cigarette papers on 22nd May from 56, Carter Lane"—he made no answer—going to the station I said "You understand stand the charge made against you, because you have made no answer to it"—he said "Oh, I know nothing about it"—he was charged at the station, and gave his name but no address—I found this packet of cigarette papers in his pocket.

Prisoner's Defence. On 28th May I bought 15 boxes of cigarette papers of a man in Kentish Town, and sold them at different places. I made 10s. profit, and on it being known to the tobacconist he pointed me out.

ROBERT MILLER (Re-examined). I saw him sign the book—I had never seen him before.

GUILTY .— Six Months' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-650
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour; Imprisonment > hard labour

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650. WILLIAM SHIPPEY (40) and JOHN CHANDLER (23), Breaking and entering the dwelling-house of William Banks Skinner, and stealing boots, shoes, goloshes, and a towel, his property.

JAMES JONES (City Policeman 935). On 11th June, about 1.30 a.m., I saw the prisoners loitering in Bishopsgate Street—I followed them into Primrose Street, back into Bishopogate Street, and lost them in Commercial Street—about 3.30 I saw Chandler come out of Skinner Street, and walk towards Acorn Street—I was in plain clothes—he saw Sergeant Harper coming along, and made a sign—I went close behind him, and saw Shippey coming from a gate in a low wall of the premises which were broken into—I took Chandler and Harper took Shippey—they were charged at the station, and Chandler said he was waiting for the market to open.

HARRY HARPER (City Police Sergeant 26). On 11th June about 4 a.m. I was with Jones, and saw Chandler come out of Acorn Street into Skinner Street—he saw us, and returned and made a signal with his left arm—I then saw Shippey coming from a gateway in a court, at the end of which is a low wall leading to the back of the premises which were broken into—we took them into custody—I said to Shippey "What are you doing here?"—he said "Nothing; I am waiting for the markets to open"—I said "There is somebody below who wants to see you," pointing to Chandler—he said "I don't know that man"—I took him in custody—he was taken to the station—I then went back to the court where the low wall is, and found a sack containing 17 pain of boots, 9 pairs of slippers, and 8 pairs of goloshes—I climbed on the low wall and on to a low roaf, and found a pair of boots, a towel, and 12 pairs of cork soles—I also found that a window on the first floor had been broken which could be easily reached from the low roof—there were bars inside which prevented a person getting in, but the goods could be reached from the outside and taken through the bars.

Cross-examined by Shippey. When I turned the corner of Skinner Street you were a short distance from the gateway, and from the turn of your body I imagined you came out of the gateway—you were not close to the butcher's shop.

JAMES PLOWMAN . I am manager to Lilley and Skinner, of 115, Bishopsgate Street Without, boot and shoe manufacturers—Mr. William Skinner is a partner in the firm—these articles are their property, and are worth about 5l.—I saw them safe at 7.15 p.m. on a partition, and some on a large packing-board just inside the window which was broken, and a second portion was on a shelf immediately above the window and within three feet of it, and a third portion was on a balustrade immediately opposite the staircase window, which had been opened—goods were missed from all those places—those on the packing-board could be removed by a person putting his arm through the bars and through the broken window; those above had been got at by means of this hook (produced). which has been made with telephone wire.

ROBERT LEEMAN (City Detective). On the 11th ot June, about 9 a.m., I searched these premises, and found this piece of wire lying on a bench; it had been formed into a hook, by means of which the boots could be hooked off on to the roof—the top part of the staircase window had been pulled down, and some one had stood on the bar and reached into the window and pulled them off the balustrade—this hook is part of the

telephone wire; I found it ten feet from where it was cut off, but with the piece adhering to it, it makes eleven feet.

The Prisoners' Statements before the Magistrate. Shippey says: "I am innocent of the charge of breaking and entering and stealing. I plead guilty to loitering, waiting for the market to open." Chandler says: "I know nothing about stealing the goods or breaking and entering."

Shippey's Defence. No witness proves that I broke in and stole the goods.

Chandler's Defence. We were charged with loitering, and three-quarters of an hour afterwards they made this charge.

GUILTY . They were then charged with previous convictions of felony; Shippey at this Court in February, 1874, and Chandler at the Mansion House in December, 1884. SHIPPEY **— Twelve Months' Hard Labour. CHANDLER— Six Months' Hard Labour.

THIRD COURT.—Thursday, June 25th, 1885.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-651
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceMiscellaneous > sureties

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651. WILLIAM NEWBOLD PLEADED GUILTY to writing and publishing a false and defamatory libel of and concerning a person named Smart and his wife.— Discharged on recognisances to come up for judgment next Session.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-652
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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652. HENRY GAMBLE (28) , Embezzling and stealing whilst employed in the public service of Her Majesty the Queen 5l., 2l. 10s., and 4l. 3s. received by him in the course of his duty.

MESSRS. COWIE, Q.C., and BAGGALLAY Prosecuted; MR. CLUER Defended.

FREDERICK LLOYD JONES . I am the son of Canon Jones, Westbury-on-Severn—some time ago I came to live at St. Helen's, North Grove, Highgate—in 1875 my father opened a post-office savings bank account in my name at Westbury; he handed it over to me when I came to London, and I have kept it since—I have been in Highgate making deposits from time to time—on 7th March, about 4 o'clock, I made a deposit of 5l. at the Highgate High Street Office—I could not swear if the prisoner was in charge there; a man received the deposit, and put it down in my book "7th March, Five pounds (5l. ), H. G."—I received no acknowledgment from the head office—I took the book away with me—I recognise the prisoner, but could not swear to him.

ELIZABETH BUNN . I live at 23, Windsor Street, Spring Bank, Hull—formerly I lived at Swaffham in Norfolk, where in March, 1884, I opened a post-office savings bank account—on 9th March this year I went to the Highgate High Street post-office about 3 o'clock and deposited 2l. 10s.—the prisoner received it, and made this entry in my book—I received no acknowledgment from the General Post-office till I applied for one—I sent the book to the office, and it came back with this red ink insertion.

JANE CAROLINE LEHMAN . I am the wife of Walter Theodore Lehman, and we live now at Coventry Park, Streatham—in February, 1884, I opened a post-office savings bank account at the Holloway Post-office—we were then living near Highgate; I received this book—on 9th March I deposited 4l. 3s. with the prisoner at 3.50 at High Street, Highgate—he made this entry in my book—this entry in red ink was not there when I received it back from him—I received no acknowledgment from the

General Post-office—I communicated with them, and eventually sent my book there, and it came back with the red ink entry.

JOHN CHARLES EDWARD BRIDGE . I am a clerk in the Savings Bank Department of the General Post-office—I made the red ink entries in this book by authority—it was the duty of the person receiving the money to have put the day as well as the month in the writing and stamp—a paper was probably put over the date figure in the stamp.

Cross-examined. I understand the ways of the Post-office Savings Bank Department—every clerk in the post-office is perfectly aware that an acknowledgment of every deposit is sent from the head office to the depositor—when the clerk receives a deposit it is not absolutely certain that the post-office will know he has received it—when he receives money it is his duty to enter it in the daily account sheet and cross sheet as well as the depositors book—if entered in the depositor's book it is certain that the post-office will know at some time that the amount has been received—we get a communication as a rule from the customer if he does not get an acknowledgment—it is impossible, unless paper were put over the date figure of the stamp, that the omission should have been repeated so frequently—the date on the stamps is moveable every day—if the date had not been put in, the same thing would have happened—I suggest it was done by a piece of paper—the stamps for letters and the savings bank are net always the same—I have no experience of that—this post-office is a receiving house, where the official has a piece of counter in a shop, and the stamps would be by the persons who took the savings bank money.

FREDERICK JOHN RICHARD JONES . I am employed at the General Post-office, in the Savings Bank Departmental made this figure 9 in red ink against the entry 4l. 3s: in the book.

HARRY BURROUGHS . I am a post-office receiver at High Street, Highgate—the prisoner was employed under me as post-office receiver for four years past, and ceased to be so on Monday evening, 9th March—that was not in connection with this charge—I had notice from the General Post-office to discharge him, and gave him notice on the following morning—he had charge of the entire postal department in my shop—no one else received money on Savings Bank accounts—my sister assisted him, under his supervision—he had charge, and had a key of the drawer—the initials "H. G.," opposite the entries in the books, are in Gamble's writing—the whole of the entry on 7th March, 5l., in Jones's book, and those of Mrs. Lehman and Mrs. Bunn, are in the prisoner's writing—it is the duty of the person receiving money to enter it on the account-sheets, and in the deposit account or cross-entry deposit account—there is no 5l. down on 7th March in either of those—the deposit-sheet relates to deposits opened at the same office, and the cross deposit-sheet to accounts which have been originally opened at another office—there is no reference on the ordinary or cross deposit account-sheets to the 2l. 10s. or 4l. 3s. of Mrs. Lehman and Mrs. Bunn—on the cross, sheet of 7th March the word "nil" is written across, and it is signed by the prisoner—Mr. Jones's account having been, opened elsewhere, 5l. ought to have appeared in that cross sheet—in addition to those two documents there is also a daily cash account to be made up by the prisoner—this of 7th March was made and signed by him—it contains no reference to the 5l., and shows no excess of cash in his possession—if the 5l. had been

omitted from the daily cash account it ought to have been shown in the excess of cash in hand—the cash account for 9th March is made out by the prisoner—it contains no reference to any 4l. 3s. or 2l. 10s., nor of any extra cash—I have three documents here relating to the 9th of March, a cross deposit, the ordinary deposit-sheet, and the daily cash account—the latter is not signed by the prisoner, and being in figures I cannot say as to the writing—the others are in his writing, but not signed—between 5 and 8 on 9th March the prisoner handed me over his cash, 25l. 11s. 3d.—he left at 8, his usual time—the detectives came about 8 with him, and he finally left at 1 o'clock in the morning—the previous week I had told him that his postal orders were not correct, and he made them correct on the Saturday or Monday, the 7th or 9th—it was 5l. odd he handed over for that—I gave it to Mr. Cooper, the chief clerk, who came on the morning of the 10th—the prisoner said, when handing it over, that he would make it correct, as the postal orders were deficient—Mr. Cooper went over the accounts.

Cross-examined. My place of business is a family grocer's shop, a fairly large one—sometimes we have plenty of customers, sometimes few—I have about seven people serving—the postal is on the other side to the grocery counter; the whole of one side is devoted to it, and the counter is about nine feet long—the prisoner was the only post-office clerk; my sister used to assist him; she is not in the employment of the Post-office—his hours of work were from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m.—he would have to sell stamps, post-cards, and registered envelopes, issue post-office orders, control the telegraph department and the parcels post, issue dog licences, and do everything connected with the post-office—the prisoner did not know on the 9th March that he was leaving—I rather think I went and told him next morning at 10, he did not come at 8, but stayed away on that Thursday morning of his own accord—he left on 9th March—he was from 8, when the detectives brought him back, to 1 going through his accounts—I was told to discharge him by the Post-office on Tuesday morning. (The witness, in his deposition stated "On Monday, 9th March, I discharged him.") Amounts received should be entered on two papers—I do not know the technicalities, I trusted to the prisoner—I took tne cash and saw it was right—I have a salary from the Post-office for the rent of the place in my shop and to pay the prisoner, and he was in my service—for about two months after the prisoner left I had one man in charge of the post-office work, now I have two in expectation of the sixpenny telegrams—I believe this 7th March cross-entry sheet was shown to me at the police-court, it accounts for 3l. 5s. received that day in seven different sums—the prisoner made up this cash account of 7th March—this is the official cash-book, a copy of these sheets—the prisoner alone uses this book—it was left on the shelf of the office when ne left at 8; others could have access to it—the prisoner used to balance up on a piece of paper at night, and should have entered it in the book next morning; he did it when he liked—the cash account of 9th March was entered by Mr. Cooper from the dockets which the prisoner left—the prisoner had no opportunity of entering it—the prisoner had been in my employment four years—he made no complaint to me during the last nine months of illness; sometimes he was not so well as at others; he was not free from headache, but used to do his duties—he was worried on 7th March and that week; that was the first time he was what I call compeltely worried—his accounts were not correct; they were short, and he

was as a man who has done something wrong and been found out—I don't know what nervous irritation means, unless it is worry—I never thought he was unable to do his work, he was a competent clerk—I might have said at the police-court, alluding to that week, "he seemed to be hardly able to take care of his work sometimes"—the prisoner said he should send for Mr. Cooper to go through his accounts when I was investigating them—at the end of the day he handed me the cash, and I counted it out and entered it in a book, and he kept the slip after I had looked at it, but did not examine it—the totals had to agree with my cash-book—I entered the total in his presence in this post-office book which I kept—he made out his slip, told me the total, and gave me the money, and I counted the money to see it was correct—we have an allowance for a telegraph clerk; it is called the voted service, and is all we receive; it does not mean an extra hand—sometimes I had money from the post-office counter for my use to accommodate me, if I wanted change and had no cash—I returned it.

Re-examined. This book is merely a daily copy of the cash account—the deposit and cross accounts contain the name of the depositor, the account contains only the total sum—the prisoner's wages were 28s. a week—he was quite competent to do his duties well, and never showed any difficulty in dealing with figures—he was on the whole a very intelligent and capable officer.

WILLIAM BATTY . I am a senior clerk in the Savings Bank department, General Post-office—I have looked at Mr. Lloyd Jones's book at the entry of the deposit of 5l. on 7th March—that was never accounted for to the head office from Highgate—notice should be sent to us on the next working day after receipt—that deposit should have been entered in the white cross entry account, then in the depositor's book, stamped with the official stamp, and initialled by the officer who received the money—in the cross account of 7th March I find no entry of 5l.—there is no 5l. on the blue paper of accounts opened at the Highgate office—those sheets coining to our office, if accurately made up, would give us notice of the 5l. deposited at Highgate that day—the clerk receiving money should put it down on the sheet, the post-office account, before he enters it in the depositor's book—the total is entered at the close of the day's business in the cash account—the total account of that day does not show that he had any excess of cash—3l. 5s. is entered as the whole amount of Post-office Savings Bank deposits on that day in the blue account—in the white cross account "nil" is written, and it is in that one that 5l. should have been entered—there is no entry on the white or blue sheets of 9th March of the deposit from Mrs. Bunn and Mrs. Lehman—both those sums should have appeared on the white sheet—the white sheet for that day is 7l. 12s., and the blue sheet 3l. 13s.—I received no notice of the deposits from those two ladies—they applied for an acknowledgment, and on that the matter was inquired into—I had notice too from Mr. Jones—subsequently a warrant was obtained for the apprehension of the prisoner—I went down with the constable to Buntingford, Hertfordshire, on 12th May—I saw the prisoner; we had some conversation on other matters, and then I said "I am from the General Post-office Savings Bank Department, and I want to ask you relative to a deposit entry of 5l., which. I am told was made by you in this book," which I produced, "at the Highgate post-office, on 7th March last; is this your entry?"

pointing to the entry in the book—he said "Yes"—I then produced the savings bank account for that date from the Highgate office and said to him "There is no entry of the 5l. in question in the account of that day, indeed the white account, in which the entry should have been made, has the word 'Nil' written across it. I have seen the cash account for that day, and all the accounts appear to be in your handwriting, and there is no cash shown over"—he said "I cannot account for it, unless there it some corresponding error in those two accounts"—I said "You know your duty with regard to the entries, that you should make the entry first in the savings bank account"—he said "Yes, but I know nothing about this 5l., I have not used it"—I said "I have obtained a warrant for your apprehension charging you with the embezzlement of the 5l. I have mentioned, paid to you by Mr. Jones on 7th March last"—he said "I know nothing about it"—I did not go into the other cases.

Cross-examined. I know the practice at ordinary post-office savings banks—it is not impossible for postal clerks to make entries in depositors' books before those on the sheets—not to keep customers waiting, but it it a very stringent regulation—the other course may be sometimes adopted.

HARRY BURROUGHS (Re-examined). When the prisoner went for his holiday a clerk was sent from the northern office or somewhere—the prisoner took his meals in the office where he conducted his business, he was there for twelve hours consecutively—if he ran away for a minute my sister used to attend.

HENRY RUMBOLD . I went on 12th May with Mr. Batty to Buntingford, and was present when he put questions to the prisoner—I confirm what Mr. Batty said—acting under instructions, I took the prisoner into custody.

LUKE HANKS . I am a constable attached to the General Post-office—on Monday, 9th March, I went to Highgate and saw the prisoner leave the post-office in High Street about 10 minutes past 8 a.m. and go to a public-house almost opposite—when he came out from there I spoke to him and took him back to the office in High Street—Mr. Bluntish, one of the officials from the confidential department of the office, was there—there was some conversation between him and the prisoner, and in consequence of what Mr. Bluntish told me I searched the prisoner and found on him between 6l. and 7l. in a purse—I remained at the office a quarter of an hour longer, and then went to his house.

Cross-examined. He only remained in the public-house a minute or two.

Re-examined. I left Bluntish there in the evening when I left.

Witness for the Defence.

DR. GEORGE FLETCHER . I am a physician and an M.D. of Cambridge—the prisoner consulted me on 20th May last year—I examined him for over an hour most thoroughly, and came to the conclusion that he had had a very bad form of epileptic seizure the day before, his tongue was bitten and his elbow and back of his head bruised—I saw him constantly for a month afterwards professionally after his work was over, and whenever I was at the post-office, about twice a week, I spoke to him—I have studied this kind of complaint for some time, and have taken a great interest in it since—I put him under strong treatment; he said I gave him too strong aperients—at first I hoped it was a single seizure and that he would recover his strength, but I saw afterwards he was not the same—he had one or two slight seizures at night—he certainly was

not capable of performing hit duties, and I urged him to let me give him a certificate to that effect—he said he should lose his place and have nothing to fall back on—I said he was in his own hands, and if he was to die he was not to blame me—finally I did write a certificate for him; I think it was not used—on the 2nd or 3rd March this year he gave me too much change—I showed it him, and he said, "I cannot help it"—I said, "You robbed yourself, it will go on till you break down"—he was not fit then to undertake much work; he did it mechanically; he sent telegrams staring round the place with his pupils dilated; he was not unconscoious, but his attention had to be roused to what was going on—he complained that the medicine was too strong, but was better when he took it—I did not see him again till the 11th, when he called and left word he was ill, and would I call at his lodgings—I called three times that day, and found him suffering from the effects of an epilpetic fit he bad had on the morning of 10th March—he was quite unconscious of any remarks I made to him—I heard of this case about ten days ago from Mr. Burroughs, and then communicated with the prisoner and his friends; that is how I come here.

Cross-examined. I gave the certificate three or four days before Christmas, and told him he might get an extra Christmas box and holiday—he would tell me at the Post-office through the wire what his symptoms were, and I would prescribe for him; that was the only kind of interview I had with him after giving the certificate up to llth March—I myself law him suffering from an epileptic fit about three weeks before Christmas, and I saw the remains of one on 11th March—I cannot fix the exact date I gave him the certificate—I should not charge him for it, it would be included in the year's attendance—I wrote it on a sheet of paper at the Post-office—the entry of the first fit is in my other pocket-book for 1884—the only entries in this one are from 11th to 15th March.

GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy on account of his previous good character and ill-health.Tweleve Months' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-653
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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653. HORATIO NELSON LAY (46) PLEADED GUILLTY* to unlawfully forging and uttering a certain writing purporting to he a certificate of character, with intent to obtain a situation in the service of Ashley John Williams.— Nine Months' Imprisonment without Hard Labour.

OLD COURT.—Friday, June 26th, 1885.

Before Mr. Justice Day.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-654
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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654. HENRY SLATTER (17) , Feloniously carnally knowing and abusing Clara Parks, aged six.


GUILTY .— Twelve Years' Penal Servitude.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-655
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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655. FREDERICK THOMPSON (21) for a like offence on Elizabeth Conway, aged nine.


FRITH Defended.

GUILTY of the attempt.Two Years' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-656
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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656. THOMAS FIELD (17) for a like offence on Lucy Bye.


GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury.Twelve Months' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-657
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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657. JAMES GEORGE CRAFT (46) , Rape on Annie Florence Craft.



22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-658
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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658. JAMES GEORGE CRAFT was again indicted for an indecent assault on the same person.

GUILTY .— Two Years' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-659
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour; Corporal > whipping

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659. WILLIAM COTTER (23), Robbery with violence, with others unknown, on Myers Barnett, and stealing from, him his watch and chain.


MYERS BARNETT . I am a furrier, and live at 147, Commercial Street—about 9 o'clock on 11th May I was in Church Street, coming home from my business—the prisoner came with four others and took my watch and chain away, the prisoner was the principal—after taking my watch and chain he knocked me down—I got up—he ran away—I hallaoed out "Stop thief"—a constable held him till I came, and said "What are you going to do with him, to charge him?"—I said I would give him in charge for stealing my watch—the watch and chain were worth 30s. altogether—I have not got them back yet.

CHARLES JELLY . On 11th May at 10 minutes past 10 o'clock I was standing at my door, 18, Church Street, and saw the prisoner and other men knock the prosecutor down—they were over him about a minute and then left him and walked to the Rectory, Spitalfields, about eight yards off—they then commenced to run, the prisoner leading the way—the prosecutor followed after them crying "Stop thief"—a constable came round the corner and stopped the prisoner, who said he was in pursuit of a thief who had attacked the prosecutor—the constable asked me to come as a witness—I am sure the prisoner is the man, I saw him over the prosecutor for a minute.

Cross-examined. I did not point to another man and say "That is the man."

WILLIAM WATCHORN (Policeman H 92). On 11th My I heard cries and ran into Church Street; I saw the prisoner come the first of five running—I stopped and held him till the prosecutor came up and identified him as one of the parties who had taken his watch, he said he was running after the thief to catch him—I am sure the prisoner is the man—I took him to the station.

Cross-examined. I found nothing on you—I did not see you knock the man down.

By the COURT. I have not found the watch.

GUILTY . He then PLEADED GUILTYto a conviction of felony in the name of James McCarthy in February, 1884.— Six Months' Hard Labour and Twenty Lashes with the Cat.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-660
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour; Corporal > whipping

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660. WILLIAM HANKEN (18) and JAMES JOHNSON (18) , Robbery with violence on Thomas Littlemore and stealing half an ounce of tobacco.

MR. JONES LEWIS Prosecuted; MR. MOYSEY defended Hanken.

THOMAS LITTLEMORE . I am a bill-poster for the People newspaper, and live at 23, Britannia Street, near King's Gross—at a quarter to 2 on the morning of 13th June I was going to the office in the Strand where the newspaper is published at 2 o'clock—as I was was passing by Parker Street with the paste can in one hand and bag of bills in the other Hanken was standing at the corner; he swung round and caught me right in the chest, I feel the effects now, I vomit now and then—the blow doubled me down, and before I could get my breath I was pushed against the shutters—my pockets were rifled, but they could get nothing but the half-ounce of tobacco in my waistcoat pocket, which they took, and then the lot of them set on kicking me about the shins—Hanken kicked me in the thigh, intending, I believe, to kick me in the groin—as soon as I could get away I got to the corner and halloaed out "Police"—two constables came across—the others ran away—when the police got up they were 50 yards away, Hanken was going to follow up the attack, when he saw the policeman on him and dropped his hands and pretended to know nothing about it—when the constable came up I said "This is one of the men, I will give him into custody"—on Sunday I was brought to look at some men, I could not identify any one—on Monday I was brought down again, and identified from about a dozen men, Johnson; I could swear to him among a thousand, he has the same jersey and handkerchief on now.

Cross-examined by MR. MOYSEY. I identified Johnson as soon as I came into the room—this was about a quarter to 2—I never lost sight of Hanken from the time of the occurrence till the constable took him into custody—I had never seen him before he struck me—I was walking along and he suddenly struck me—he was one side and the other four or five men were together—I called police as soon as I could get my breath—I was perfectly conscious except for catching my breath—I was standing up—I could identify only one other man—he had a boss eye—there is something the matter with Hanken's eyes—I have not seen any of the others since I believe—I swear Hanken is the man—I believe if the policeman had not come up immediately I called I should have been kicked to death.

FREDERICK HALL (Policeman E 174). At a quarter to 2 on the morning of the 3rd January I was on duty in Drury Lane and heard shouts—I came up and saw Hanken standing two or three yards away from the last witness, who complained of being assaulted by Hanken and others—I took Hanken into custody—there were several others at the time running down the street five yards from him when I came round the corner of the street, and the last witness was between Hanken and myself—the prosecutor had every appearance of having been assaulted—his waistcoat was torn open—about three minutes before I had come across the corner of the street, and seen Johnson, the other prisoner, in Hanken's company then—there were about seven other men there too—I took Hanken to the station—he said nothing—Johnson was taken on a warrant.

Cross-examined. It was somewhat dark—Hanken offered no resistance going to the station—his hat was on and his clothes not disarranged—he seemed perfectly calm—the other men were 40 or 50 yards down Parker Street when I apprehended Hanken—the prosecutor did not

hesitate to charge Hanken—I told him I would take him to tiro station if he would come down, and he came down to the station with me—he did not complain before the Magistrate of having lost any coin.

Witnesses for the Defence.

JOHN HURLEY . I am a shoemaker, of 6, Parker Street, Drury Lane—I was in Hanken's company on the early morning of 13th June—he had been to see his sister whose child was ill—about half-past 1 or a Quarter to 2 We were returning home and saw the prosecutor attacked by some men, then there was a cry of "Police," and five or six men ran down Parker Street, and I and Hanken came towards the top of the street, and Hanken went up to the bill poster and said, "What is the matter?"—just then two policemen came up, and the bill poster, who seemed flurried a bit, turned round and said to the constable, "I think that is one of them," pointing to Hanken, who had approached him nearer than I had—the constable said "I will take him in charge if you will charge him"—the prosecutor did not know what to say at that moment—about five or six seconds afterwards he said, "Yes, I will charge him," and Hanken walked down willingly alongside of the constable to the station—I will swear Hanken had nothing to do with the scuffle or row I saw I was not with Hanken when he was with the other prisoner half an hour or so before—I joined him about half-past 12, and was with him up to the time of the disturbance—I went with him to his sister's at 10, left him there, and met him again at 12.30.

JAMES WILSON (Examined by the prisoner Johnson). I am night deputy at Stafford's, 112, Drury Lane—on Friday night you were in bed there from 11 to 11.30—when I went round about 12.30 or a quarter to 1 you were there, and could not have got out unless I had let you out with the key—I officiate in the governor's place—you paid the governor about 11 or 11.30.

Witness in Reply.

FREDERICK HALL (Re-examined, by the JURY ). I saw Hurley with Hanken at 1.30, about a quarter of an hour before the attack; but when I took Hanken into custody Hurley was not there; I most have seen him if he had been—I know all three, Hurley, Hanken, and Johnson—they were all together a quarter of an hour before the attack—Hurley may have been among the three or four I saw running off.

GUILTY . HANKEN ** †PLEADED GUILTY to a conviction of felony is October, 1879, and JOHNSON*†to one in September, 1884.— Six Month's Hard Labour , and to be twice flogged with the Cat, receiving twenty lashes each occasion.

NEW COURT.—Friday, June 26th, 1885.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-661
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > lesser offence
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour; Miscellaneous > sureties

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661. JOHN NALLY (33) and MARGARET NALLY (30) , Feloniously wounding Thomas Lisle with intent to do him grievous bodily harm.

MR. HUTTON Prosecuted; MESSRS. FRITH and MUIR Defended.

HARRY HUNT (Policeman D 42). On 8th April, about 1 o'clock, I was on duty in Crawford Street, and the female prisoner came up to me and said "I wish you to come to 7, Circus Street, there is a man lying on the bed by my husband, covered with blood, and I do not know what is the matter with him"—I went to the house and rang the bell; the male

prisoner opened the door and said "There is nothing the matter here, what do you want?"—I said "Your wife has told me there is a man, lying on the bed covered with blood"—he said "Well, I think you had better come, and I think there has been a knife used"—I went through the house into a little cottage at the back, to which there was no other entrance—I went in and saw the prosecutor lying on the bed, withss blood on the lower part of his right leg and on his face and head—he was lying on his left side—I said "Do you know anything about this?"—the male prisoner said "No, Sir"—I picked up this knife (produced) with smears of blood on it, and said "Who has been using this?"—he said "I don't know anything about it"—the female prisoner turned her head from me and said "I wish I had killed him"—another constable came—I sent for the ambulance, and took the injured man and both the prisoners to the station, where he was attended by the divisional doctor—he was drunk, he could not talk—at the station the female prisoner said "I stabbed him and I wish I had killed him, I should like to kick him now as he lies there"—two shillings and sixpence was found on the male prisoner.

Cross-examined. When she came to me in the street she was in rather to excited state—I do not know whether she said "There is a strange man in my room"—she seemed anxious to get in; she rang the bell twice—she did not call out or scream down the area or say "This is Comet, open the door"—when the male prisoner said "There is nothing the matter here," I did not say "I thought as much," nor did the female prisoner say "Can't you see the man is silly with drink? and if you don't go in I shall go to John Street to the inspector," nor did I say "All right, we will go in together"—when we got in, a lamp was burning on the mantelpiece—she was not very excited—I did not notice that she had been crying—she eaid to her husband on the road and at the station, "You beast, this is through your bringing strange men home;" and she said, not in the room, but at the station, "This man has attempted to take liberties with me"—I found a bottle of rum on the mantel shelf, and a bottle of whisky was taken from the male prisoner's pocket at the station—at the station she indignantly told the inspector that the man had taken liberties with her and she used the knife in self-defence to preserve her honour—when I first saw her she said that she had sent a gentleman to John Street station to get assistance—she was sober—a pane of glass in the room was broken, and she told me she broke it to get in at the door—the Magistrate admitted both prisoners to bail on the first remand—they had then been in custody a week.

Re-examined. You can walk from John Street to Circus Street in five minutes—there is a police-station in John Street, which is open all night—these are the prosecutor's clothes.

THOMAS LISLE . I live in Northumberland—I came to London on 7th April to seek employment—I picked up a man, not the prisoner, and went with him to the Zoological Gardens—I had about 6l. 3s. in my pocket; I became very drunk, and remember no more till I woke up in St. Mary's Hospital—I then had tenpence—I have had one of my legs amputated in consequence of the injuries I received.

Cross-examined. I spoke to that man (Jarvis) in the hospital—I did not say to him that this was not the first time I had got into a little unpleasantness through being too fend of the ladies—I have not got into a

scrape of this sort before, and know no reason why I should tell him so—I don't remember seeing the prisoner, and don't remember what I did that night.

WILLIAM BENDALL . I am a clerk—my mother keeps the Thornbury Castle, Circus Street—I was in her bar at 10.30 p.m. on April 7th—the male prisoner, the proseoutor, and a third man came in; they had some drink, and the prosecutor knocked a glass down—he was not sober, and I refused to replenish his glass—the male prisoner was sober—the third man left in about five minutes, and the prosecutor and prisoner remained five or seven minutes longer—the male prisoner said that the prosecutor was a friend of his, and he would take him home, and sleep with him—he lives nearly opposite—that was about 10.45.

ADA ASHLEY . I am barmaid at the Royal Standard, Seymour Place—the prosecutor and the male prisoner came there about 9.30, and left about 10 o'clock—they had some drink, which the prosecutor paid for with a sovereign which he took out of a purse in which I saw some more gold—he could stand straight.

CHARLES DIXON . I am a tailor, of 7, Circus Street, which is a row of houses, and there is one cottage behind; you have to go to it through the house in-front of it—on 7th April, about 12.80, I heard a knocking at the cottage behind, and heard a window break—half of the door it glass—I heard no screaming or noise—a few minutes after the knocking I heard some one go out and slam the door—I live in the parlours, and if any rooms are empty I let them.

Cross-examined. There is a courtyard between my rooms and the prisoner's cottage, which may be five yards across—I think smothered screams might be heard—I have never heard any one cough inside.

GERALD CALLENDER . I am house surgeon at St. Mary's Hospital—Lisle was admitted there about 3 a.m. on April 8th, but I did not see him till 10 a.m.; I then dressed his wounds—the edges of them had united—he had two wounds on the upper side of his right thigh, within an inch of each other—he went on very well for the first three or four days, and then one of the wounds opened—I passed a probe into it, and found it extended six and half inches in an upward and backwacd direction—on the ninth day, April 17th, about noon, haemorrhage came on from the depth of the wound, which stopped before I got to the bed, but it came on again about 3 a.m. on the 18th, but was very easily stopped, and again about 5.30 the same afternoon, when I could not stop it—I sent for a surgeon, and an attempt was made to find the bleeding vessel, and after trying as long as we could the thigh was amputated—the wounds might have been made by this knife—there is a small mark on it which may be blood, but I did not see it till weeks afterwards—the wound was in the fleshy part of the thigh behind the bone.

Cross-examined. I do not think the wound could have been occasioned if he was staggering under the influence of drink and fell against a knife which the woman held—great force must have been used—if he was attempting to outrage her, the wounds would be more likely to be on the inside of the thigh—my opinion is rather against its being occasioned in a struggle—I do not say that it could not be, but it would not be likely because the force must have been very great—a woman would use force to defend her honour.

WILLIAM GILLIES (Police Inspector D). On 8th April at a little past

1 o'clock the prisoners were brought to the the station, and shortly afterwards Lisle was brought in—the male prisoner called his wife, as I believe she is a b——old cow—I told a constable to put him outside, he was under the influence of liquor—while going outside the female prisoner said "This is all through you, I done it, and would do it again if any man attempted to take liberties with me"—I went to the prisoner's house—Dixon went into the room with me, and I saw the mattress and bed had blood all down one side; it had run off the mattress along the laths to the floor, where it had run each way, and there was a large patch of vomit at the side of the bed which looked recent, it had not been disturbed.

Cross-examined. She said "I would do it again if any man attempted to take liberties with me," she did not say that he had done so—I said at the police-court "She said 'I would do it again, the man attempted to take liberties with me'"—I signed my deposition and did not correct that, but I positively swear that she said "If any man"—I saw a smashed lamp on the mantelpiece, and the room was in a dirty disordered state.

The Prisoners' Statements before the Magistrate. John Nally says: "I am not guilty of it." Margaret Nally says: "I know he attempted to insult me, and I did it, and I own to it."

HARRY HUNT (Re-examined). The male prisoner opened the door; he was drunk, but could walk and talk—he did not answer me sensibly—he lives downstairs—he said "What's up, there is nothing the matter, what do you want?" as a drunken man would say it.

MR. FRITH requested the Court to allow Margaret Nally to read a written statement before he addressed the Jury, MR. JUSTICE HAWKINS having allowed a similar course. The COMMON SERJEANT considered that MR. FRITH ought to address the Jury first, and he having done so, Margaret Nally read a paper to the Jury stating that she went out at 7 o'clock p.m. and returned at 10.30 and found the door loocked; that she sent a boy to search the public-houses for her husband, and not finding him she broke the glass, put her hand through, unlocked the door, and found her husband in bed with a strange man, who got up and struggled with her, and they fell together and broke the lamp; and not being able to awake her husband, and being disgusted and indignant with the man, she picked up a knife while on her knees, stabbed him, and ran to the station and complained to the inspector; and that she was a respectable married woman with four children and would not have done such a thing without provocation.

HARRY HUNT (Re-examined). The prosecutor said that he had lost 4l. or 5l., but only 10d. was found on him at the hospital—he was dressed completely, with the exception of his boots and hat—his trousers were not open, I unbuttoned them for the doctor to attend to his leg—he had braces on. I unbuttoned them—I did not notice at the cottage whether his trousers were open; one button might have been undone and I not notice it—I saw him at the station from 10 to 15 minutes afterwards—I saw a hole in his trousers where the wound was.

JOHN NALLY— NOT GUILTY . MARGARET NALLY— GUILTY of unlawfully wounding.She received a good character, but three convictions of assults on the police were proved against her.Six Months' Hard Labour , and to find two sureties in 30l

OLD COURT.—Saturday, June 27th, 1885.

Before Mr. Justice Day.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-662
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour; Corporal > whipping; Imprisonment > hard labour; Corporal > whipping

Related Material

662. CHARLES HAWKRIDGE (19) and HERBERT HAWKRIDGE (16) were indicted for a robbery with violence on Edith Dyer, and stealing a purse and 1l. 3s. 6d., the property of George Dyer.

MR. LOUIS Prosecuted.

EDITH DYER . I am the wife of George Dyer, of 27, Afghan Road, Clapham—on Monday night, 8th June, I was in Holborn with my husband and brother-in-law—we were coming out of a publichouse—I was putting my purse in my pocket—the elder prisoner, I suppose, noticed me doing so, and at that moment I felt his hand in my pocket—I called out, "My purse"—my husband ran to my assistance, and at that moment it seemed as if the elder prisoner gave it to the younger one—my husband tried to get it away from him, when the elder one came behind him and knocked him down—my brother-in-law came up, and the prisoner also beat him severely and broke one of his teeth out—I described the elder prisoner to the police and he was taken—I am quite sure the two prisoners are the men—my purse contained 1l. 3s. 6d.

Cross-examined by Charles Hawkridge. You did not strike me—your brother tried to assault me as I was going to the station.

GEORGE DYER . I was with my wife coming out of the Coach and Horses in High Holborn—she was just in front of me—I heard her say, "That man has got my purse"—I immediately looked round and saw the purse in the younger prisoner's hands and my wife endeavouring to make for him—I rushed and tried to get it, and the elder prisoner struck me in the eye and knocked me on the pavement—as I was getting up I saw my brother being assaulted by the elder prisoner—we gave information to the police, and the elder prisoner was taken, and we immediately identified him—the younger prisoner was taken shortly afterwards on the way to the station—the mark on my eye is visible now; I think it was cut by a ring, because it has been gathering ever since and has not properly healed—the elder prisoner struck me from behind—the prisoners were almost close together, acting together—they ran away while we were looking for a policeman, and the elder prisoner got back to the public-house and was taken there—he was sheltered there—he is a frequenter of the house, and the landlady kept him there.

WILLIAM DYER . I am brother of the last witness—we went into the public-house for refreshment—in coming out I saw the elder prisoner hustling rather—I heard my sister-in-law exclaim something about her purse—I tried to get to her but was pushed by two or three men—there was a crowd—I kept my eye on the elder prisoner—I saw the purse in his hand—he struck me a violent blow in the mouth, which broke my tooth and cut my lip, it appeared to be with a ring—I was unconscious for a little while, and was covered with blood—the constable came up, and I gave him a description—the younger prisoner was close to the elder, and I saw a pass, but could not positively say that the purse was passed to him.

Cross-examined by Charles Hawkridge. I was not intoxicated—I did not strike you—my eyeglass was smashed—no one in our company struck you with a stick—there was a gentleman there; I do not know whether

he struck you—he offered his evidence, and attended before the Magistrate, but was not bound over.

DAVID KING (Policeman E 545). On the night of 8th June, between 11 and 12 o'clock, I was on duty in Holborn—I saw a large crowd, and saw the prosecutor and three other witnesses, one not here—in consequence of what was said to me I went in search of the elder prisoner—I told him from information I had received from a lady I should take him to the station for assaulting two gentlemen and stealing a purse from a lady—he said "Who are you talking to? you will get yourself in trouble stopping a respectable man in this way"—I took him back to the prosecutrix, and she immediately identified him as the man that stole her purse—on the way to the station the younger prisoner, with about a dozen of such boys, came up and surrounded us, and he struck the two last witnesses two heavy blows—I held him till another constable came up, and gave him in charge—we did not find the money.

The prisoners in their defence denied the robbery, and asserted that they were first assaulted by the witnesses.

GUILTY . Herbert Hawkridge Pleaded Guilty to a previous conviction, at Bow Street. CHARLES HAWKRIDGE— Four Months' Hard Labour and 18 Lashes. HERBERT HAWKRIDGE— Six Months' Hard Labour and 25 Lashes.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-663
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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663. WILLIAM RYDER (35) , Feloniously making, by procuration, an order for the delivery of goods, without lawful authority.

MR. PURCELL Prosecuted; MR. YEATMAN Defended.

FREDERICK WILSON . I am a clerk in the service of the Great Northern Railway Company, at their good a depot in Royal Mint Street—on 25th February five bales of twine arrived there consigned to George Black and Co.—I forwarded an advice note in the usual way; this is it.

JOHN HUTTON . I am a clerk at the Great Northern goods station, Royal Mint Street—on 16th May the prisoner came there with this written order for a bale of twine—it is marked "C 2497, G. A Black and Co."—I referred him to the warehouse to have it verified in the usual way—he returned with the bale, and I gave him the usual gate pass to go away with it—on 23rd May he came again with this order for two bales, signed in the same way—he was sent to the warehouse, received the bales, came back, and I gave him the pass and he cleared the gates in the usual way—on 27th May he brought a third order for another bale, which he cleared—that completed the lot—there were five altogether; I delivered four on these orders.

Cross-examined. I saw the prisoner three times—I did not know, him before.

GEORGE RIPPENGAL . I am a checker at the goods station of the Great Northern Railway—on 16th May the prisoner came and gave me this order (C)—I put the bale on a barrow and he took it away.

WILLIAM ROBERT WOODS . I am a delivery clerk at this depot—on 23rd May the prisoner brought this delivery Order (D)—I sent him to get it initialled—he brought it back initialled—he said he would pay the warehouse rent the next time he came—I saw him sign this entry in the delivery-book in the name of Ryder.

Cross-examined. He did not sign "Black and Co."—I had seen him once before.

HENRY JAMES HUTHWAITE . I trade as George A. Black and Co., Leadenhall House, Leadenhall Street, commission agents and dealer—I have known the prisoner six or, seven years—a short time ago he came and asked to have his letters left there; afterwards he proposed to do business together—that was between last Christmas and the new year—I know his handwriting thoroughly—the signatures Black and Co. to these three documents, C, D, and E, are in his writing—he was not authorised to sign my name to those orders, I knew nothing of it—I have never received the goods or the proceeds; I cannot find out where they have gome—about 28th May I had occasion to go to the file where I keep the advice notes, and I found this and another one were missing—the same day I saw the prisoner's brother, and in consequence of what I heard from him I went to the railway depot and was shown these three orders—when I came back to the office the boy was there—I did not see the prisoner again till he was in custody.

Cross-examined. I was a partner with Black—he died on 24th Feb., 1884—the prisoner had been a clerk of his, during a portion of the time as a traveller—I engaged him—he never signed the name of the firm, he wrote letters for the firm and put his initials, "W. R.," not without—I have never paid him commission, I have given him money when he was short—he was not a kind of partner.

SAMUEL LYTHEL (City Police Sergeant). I apprehended the prisoner on a warrant on 1st June—I read it to him, he made no reply; he merely asked if he could see Mr. Huthwaite—I took him to the station and charged him, he made no reply.

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Hard Labour.

NEW COURT.—Saturday, June 27th, 1885.

Before Mr. Recorder.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-664
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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664. HENRY MUSKETT DASHWOOD (29) , Feloniously within four months of his bankruptcy making preparation for quitting England and taking with him part of his property to the amount of 20l. and upwards.

MR. LOCKWOOD, Q.C., and MR. GRAIN Prosecuted; MR. SIMS Defended.

CHARLES L'ENFANT . I am clerk in the London Bankruptcy Court—I produce a file of the proceedings in the bankruptcy of Henry Muskett Dashwood—on the file I find a petition of Messrs. Berlandina Brothers against the defendant on 24th September, 1884; and an order made by the Court for substituted service of the petition on 29th September; 1884; he was adjudged bankrupt upon the petition on 16th December, 1884; on 1st January, 1885, Mr. William Hillel Berlindina was appointed trustee—the bankrupt was examined—a transcript of the shorthand notes of his examination is on the file.

Cross-examined. Only one creditor proved, that was the prosecutor—the prosecutor has had the whole conduct of the matter—no order was made by the Court for this prosecution.

WILLIAM HILLEL BERLANDINA . I am a member of the firm of Messrs. Berlandina Brothers, commission agents and merchants, 75, Mark Lane—about 22nd April, 1884, the defendant was indebted to us about 1,075l.—upon that day he gave us this acceptance at three months—that would be due on 25th July—when due it was renewed upon terms, the amount

was divided into three sums, and the three bills given now produced, for 500l. due 22ndAugust, 290l. on 7th October, and 285l. on 27th November—at the time of the renewal the defendant told me he had not the money at Present, that he had his money out on mortgage to Mr. Peyton Dashwood, his cousin, he had given notice to call in the mortgage, but owing to the state of the building trade his cousin had some difficulty in letting him have the money—he said the money was invested in building speculations—on 26th August the defendant called upon me and said he was sorry he had not the money to meet the bill due on the 27th, but he expected he would have it in a few days from his cousin Mr. Peyton Dashwood—he asked me to take his cheque and to hold it over for a few days—I find on reference to the correspondence the 9th September was fixed for repayment—I took this cheque; it was presented several days afterwards and dishonoured—I did not see him after the 26th August till I saw him at the Mansion House—I did not know he was going abroad—I heard of it about 11th September—I then presented a petition against him in the London Bankruptcy Court, obtained substituted service, he was adjudicated a bankrupt upon that petition, and I was appointed trustee—no one else has sought to prove against his estate—I am still a creditor for the amount.

Cross-examined. My office is on the ground floor, and the defendant's on the fourth floor—Mr. Peyton Dashwood's was also in the same house—we have never described ourselves as brokers—we have been in the petroleum business about 30 years—I first dealt with Dashwood in January, 1882—at the time I had no reason to believe that he had any knowledge of petroleum—I did not inquire into that—when we met in January, 1882, the defendant and Mr. Dashwood and a Mr. Webb were present—they all bought petroleum about that time—we talked over the matter; they asked what was being done—at that time there was a great deal of hubbub about petroleum—possibly I said it was a good time to buy—afterwards they had a series of dealings in petroleum—there were deliveries, each parcel was in existence and was tendered—a certificate is required by the rules of the Baltic Petroleum Association to show that the parcel is in existence—it is customary to show that certificate if it is asked for; they are all kept in our office—I deny the statement that those gentleman never saw the certificates—the defendant paid large sums if petroleum transactions, I cannot, save the amount—it is not correct to say he followed my advice; I told him the circumstances I did not advise him—I will not swear I did not in any case advise him to buy—he brought me newspaper paragraphs and acted upon them on his own impulse—he made more than 15l. profit out of transactions amounting to 6,000l.—he has made several amounts of profit—if he says he only made 15l. profit he has made a mistake—I know he lost several thousand pounds—he also had dealings in turpentine and resin spirit—I gave him a very good opinion of myself, no doubt—large sums are made and lost in petroleum dealings—it is not a question of good or bad market, the market has been bad for six years—I told him he would regain his position if the markets were all right, and probably get his money back—the still open—Mr. Dashwood said he was sorry to hear his cousin was still doing business and losing money—Dashwood lost "to us"—Webb lost "to us" over 2,000l.; everybody has lost.

Re-examined. When I am asked whether Peyton lost "to us" we did not pocket the money—we did not make all the profits, and the defendant all the losses—we stand to lose—we did not seek the defendant when he commenced dealing with us.

By MR. SIMS. He dealt with us as principals—the contract says "For differences of goods bought and sold for him at his request"—we altered our claim from that to "In respect of purchases and sales of petroleum," &c., "from which sum I have not received any manner of satisfaction"—I said we were not agents between Dashwood and other persons because of the contract we received.

PEYTON DASHWOOD . I am a surveyor, and the owner of 75, Mark Lane—the defendant is my cousin—in 1884 I had 825l., his money, in my hands—that originally had been 1,000l.—50l. was paid me on 20th August, and a further sum of 50l. afterwards—that was for differences between us—on September 8th I paid 75l., and a further cheque of 11l. or 12l.—he asked for the 75l.

Cross-examined. By "differences" I mean paid on matters between us—that settled an account—the 75l. and the 12l. was for differences—the defendant carried on his business as a solicitor in my house, 75, Mark Lane—he had only just been admitted a solicitor in 1882—before these petroleum transactions he was not involved; he had to my knowledge 5,000l.—he was securing a good business as a solicitor; the first year he told me he made 600l.—I was present at the first interview commencing the petroleum transactions—Mr. Berlandina suggested the purchase of petroleum—we none of us had knowledge of it—he said his firm were petroleum brokers, having special knowledge and peculiar opportunities of understanding the market—I had dealings at the same time with Berlandina—when the defendant completed his transactions with Berlandina, except a comparatively small sum in my hands, he had run through his money—to the best of my belief it had gone in paying off the losses made through the Berlandinas—the defendant had previously been out to the Cape—I knew through the Association on the Congo that he had applied for an appointment—when I saw him in the House of Detention he was suffering very badly from the effects of fever.

HARBERSON JOSEPH KIRK . I am an auctioneer and surveyor, of 75, Mark Lane—I produce settlement of 25th August, 1884, signed by the prisoner, also another document dated 11th October, 1884, by which I was appointed trustee of that settlement—I was also a clerk in the defendant's office—I received this letter of 11th September. (From the defendant inquiring whether it would be safe to venture back to England, as he was suffering from fever at the Cape.) A few days before the defendant went away he said he intended to go to the Congo, as he expected to get an appointment there—he left his books and papers in the office; no one had charge of them that I am aware of.

Cross-examined. Proceedings had been taken to set aside the settlement, and to prevent the trustee from paying over the funds to the wife on the ground of its being fraudulent—the matter has been heard before Vice-Chancellor Bacon, who refused the injunction with costs as against the Berlandinas—I still assist a solicitor as his clerk.

MARY KEARNS . My husband is a commercial traveller—in September last the defendant had furnished appartments at my house, paying me a weekly rent—he paid me on 4th September 10l. which he owed me, in

half-sovereigns, which he took from a small linen bag—seme money was apparently left in the bag—he had plate and other articles of his own, but he used mine—he took his own plate away with him.

Cross-examined. I cannot fix the date when he left; his bill was made up to the 4th of September—he bore the character of a straightforward honourable man.

WILLIAM KILFOIL . I am manager to Messrs. Dempster and Co., agents for the British and African Steam Navigation Company—I produce our passenger ticket-book—I sold a ticket for a passage by H. M. Dashwood by the Kinsemble to the River Congo—the passage money was 35l.; it was all paid in half-sovereigns by the person taking the ticket—the ship sailed on the 10th from Liverpool.

Cross-examined. I do not know the person who bought the ticket—I do not recognise the prisoner as the person.


22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-665
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

Related Material

665. The said HENRY MUSKETT DASHWOOD was further indicted for unlawfully incurring a debt and liability, with intent to defraud.

No evidence was offered, and the Jury returned a verdict of NOT GUILTY .

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-666
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

666. MAURICE LACEY (20) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of Mary Bonham, and stealing large quantities of potatoes and dead fish.

MR. LEARY Prosecuted.

MARY BONHAM . I keep a fish shop at 34, White Hart Street—about 5.30 a.m. on 2nd June I heard a terrific crash—I was in bed—it awoke me—I listened and heard a rattling of pails, and thought it was the man who takes away the refuse—when I came down about 7 a.m. I found the street door had been forced, and a sliding partition which we have from the passage into the shop forced open, making an entrance to the shop—the shop was upset—I lost a quantity of fish and potatoes—they were safe the night before.

JOHN BEAZLEY . I live at 41, Moon Street—I am a scavenger—on the 2nd June I was going into White Hart Street to get some stuff out of the cellar for the cart, when I saw three men and the prisoner coming out of Mrs. Bonham's fish shop between 5.30 and 5.40 a.m.—I was afraid to speak because there was a gang at the corner, waiting—I saw the prisoner come out with something in paper in his hand—the men went across the road to the public-house, and I saw no more of them—I told a policeman.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You were not drunk—I had not been in the cellar when I saw you coming.

MATTHEW O'BRIEN (Detective Sergeant E). I received information from Beazley—I arrested the prisoner about 10 a.m. on 2nd June at the Craven public-house—I told him he would be charged with being concerned in breaking into 34, White Hurt Street—he said "I was there; there were three others with me"—I told him the till was found on the floor—he said "Well, if there was any money gone I do not know anything about it; I had none"—on going to the premises I found the front door had been forced, and the partition had been wrenched away, and by that means they got from the passage into the shop.

The prisoner in his defence said that he was coming away from the public-house drunk, when he was pushed into the shop; he did not know the partition

was broken, and when he went back to the public-house he was taken up for the robbery.

MATTHEW O'BRIEN (Re-examined). When I took the prisoner into custody he pretended to be drunk, but he was not.

GUILTY . He then PLEADED GUILTY ** to a conviction of felony in October, 1884, at Bow Street Police-court.— Nine Months' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-667
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

667. JOHN LAKE (18) , Robbery with violence on Benjamin Howard, and stealing two shillings and sixpence, his money.

MR. WARBUTRTON Prosecuted.

BENJAMIN HOWARD . I am a plasterer, of 32, Cheshire Street, Bethnal Green—on the 27 th May, about midnight, I was coming down the Bethnal Green Road—six men surrounded me—they pinioned my arms behind me—they took two shillings and sixpence from my right hand trousers pocket—the prisoner was one of the men—I stood still till the constable came up, and the prisoner ran away.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I was not intoxicated—I did not see you take anything from my possession.

THOMAS SUTHERHAM (Policeman K 212). About 12.35 on 28th May I was about 50 yards from where this occurred—I saw a crowd of people—I heard some one say "They are robbing the poor old man"—I hastened towards the crowd—I saw a man, not the prisoner, strike the old man and knock him down—the prisoner was close to the old man, hustling him about—I rushed for the man who struck the prosecutor, but went after the prisoner and took him back to the prosecutor, who identified him as one of the men who assisted in robbing him—I told the prisoner he would be charged with being concerned with others in robbing the old man of a shilling and three sixpences—he said "Not me; you have made a mistake; I am a gentleman; you will get into trouble"—I took him to the station—he gave a false address.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You said "I work for my living."

GUILTY . He then PLEADED GUILTY to a conviction in May, 1884.— Twelve Months' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-668
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Not Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

668. JOHN RYAN (29) and JOHN NOONAN (20) , Robbery with violence on Samuel Finch, and stealing 10s., his money.

MR. FERMINGER Prosecuted; MR. MARSHALL HALL defended Ryan;

MR. GEOGHEGAN defended Noonan.

SAMUEL FINCH . I live at Lamb Court, Holborn—about 11 p.m. on 24th May I met the prisoners in Regent Square—I was walking from Gray's Inn Road to Judd Street—Ryan struck me on the eye—that rendered me insensible—when I came to myself I felt in my pocket and missed half a sovereign—I went to the station with the two witnesses—a description was given of Ryan—I saw Noonan the following Tuesday, I identified him at the station from among others.

Cross-examined by MR GEOGHEGAN. I identified him not by his jacket alone, but by his clothes and his height.

Cross-examined by MR. HALL. I identified Ryan by the way he walked.

Re-examined. I saw the prisoners coming towards me before I received the blow.

JAMES LANE . I live at 36, Regent Square—on Saturday, 24th May,

about 11 o'clock p.m., I was in Gray's Inn Square—I saw the prosecutor and the prisoners—the prosecutor was lying on the ground, and one of the prisoners knocking him—Noonan ran away; Ryan walked about 20 yards and stood against a post—I passed him—he was not dressed at he is now, but had a pea jacket and a black felt hat.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I said at the police-court "I did not recognise Noonan by his face, I knew him by his height and the way he dressed."

CHARLES CLARKE (Policeman E 218). On 25th May the prosecutor and Lane made a complaint at the station and described a man, in consequence of which I went to 22, Compton Place—I saw Ryan in bed—I told him I should take him into custody for being concerned in assaulting and robbing a man—when he had put his clothes on I told him the charge again—he said "It never happened"—on Tuesday, 26th May, about 11 o'clock a.m. I was walking in Compton Place with Finch, who pointed out Noonan as being the second man—I took him to the station—he was placed with several others and identified by the two witnesses—I fetched Samuel Lane, who said he could not identify him—when taken Noonan said "This is a tine thing to bring me into."

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I did not think it necessary to bring the man here who did not identify Noonan—I cannot say I know Lao, I have not made inquiries about him, I had no instructions to do so—the story that it was Lao who was with Ryan may be true, I cannot say.

RYAN— GUILTY .— Six Months' Hard Labour. NOONAN— NOT GUILTY .

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-669
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

669. JOHN GARLICK (29) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of William Turner, and stealing five bottles of brandy and other goods.


WILLIAM TURNER . I live at the Folly Hotel, Amherst Road—on 21st May I shut up my house about 12.30, saw everything properly fastened for the night and went to bed about 1.15—a little after 4a.m. the bell rang—I looked out of the window, spoke to a constable, and went down stairs—I missed five bottles of brandy, two boxes of cigars, a quantity of cigarettes, and 2s. 4d. in coppers—I examined the house with the constable—in the water-closet a small window was wide open, which had been fastened when I went to bed—outside a set of old steps which I had put on one side in the yard, was set across the area, which is 14 feet wide—the window was large enough to let a man through—this property is mine.

HENRY GRANTHAM (Policeman M 419). On 28th May I arrested the prisoner about 4 a.m., he was coming in an opposite direction, he had a bottle in his hand—he called some men over to him and gave them something to drink out of the bottle—when I got opposite I crossed over and asked him what he had got—he said "Nothing"—he had a bundle under his arm—I took it from him and found he had four bottles of brandy and 20 half-ounces of tobacco—I afterwards got assistance and took him to the station—he was further examined, and other property found on him—I asked him where he got it from—he said "The Folly Hotel"—when we got to the station we found one of the prosecutor's cards on him and one gold tester, five billiard balls, 90 cigarettes, one snuff-box, three table knives, 15 old coins, three briar-root pipes, a gin

still, 40 cigars a linen towel, a red bag, 2s. 4d. in bronze, a card-holder, a screwdriver, and a jemmy—he had those things in his pocket, with the exception of the four bottles of brandy and twenty half-ounces of tobacco—he gave no information how he got them.

GUILTY . He then PLEADED GUILTY ** to a conviction of felony in February, 1883.— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-670
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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670. RICHARD ANDERSON (23) and THOMAS MAHONEY (18) , Conspiring together to steal from divers persons unknown.

MR. MARSHALL HALL Prosecuted; MR. KEITH FRITH defended Anderson,

and MR. GEOGHEGAN Mahoney.

EDWARD CLUFF (Detective Sergeant B). About 8 p.m. on the 11th June I was at the Royal entrance to the Exhibition—it was shortly after the fire—I saw the prisoners pushing amongst the crowd, and I followed them—Mahoney was pushing Anderson, who slipped his hands into ladies' pockets—I saw Mahoney lift his hand off Anderson's shoulder—I tried to get to the persons to ask them if they missed anything, but could not because of the crowd—I spoke to Sergeant Brown about them—I saw them again at the entrance trying to pick pockets—Mahoney linked his hand through Anderson's and crossed over the road—I stopped them and told them I should take them into custody, and charge them with loitering with intent to commit a felony—Mahoney said "I have only just come; I met this man"—they were there other half an hour—I found on Anderson a purse, three pawn tickets, and sevenpence halfpenny in coppers.

Cross-examined by MR. KEITH FRITH. This took place the night of the fire—you saw me there—a larger number of persons than usual was there—there was confusion and excitement, but no "bonneting" or "horse-play"—several persons complained of the prisoners—I saw the prisoners together, Anderson was in front and Mahoney behind, with his hands on Anderson's shoulder—I said at the police-court I saw Anderson long before I saw Brown—I was about to call in a uniform officer.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I saw Mahoney searched—he had fourpence-halfpenny—I do not know about a medicine bottle.

DANIEL BROWN (Detective Sergeant B). I was in the Exhibition Road on the night of the 12th June—I saw Cluff about 8 p.m. outside the Royal entrance to the Exhibition—I saw the prisoners together—I saw Anderson raise a lady's jacket, and Mahoney was pushing against the crowd and against three ladies—they moved some distance—I saw Mahoney get in front of Anderson, and Mahoney's hand got into a lady's pocket just in front of the entrance—they appeared as if intending to go into the Exhibition—Mahoney looked round, saw me, and they went arm-in-arm to the other side of the road—I went over and told them I should take them into custody for attempting to pick pockets—Mahoney said "Let me go, Brown, for the sake of my poor father, who has been dead four weeks; let me run down that street and my mother will pay you well"—he had fourpence-halfpenny and a small bottle, which he said had medicine—at the police-station he said "I know I shall get three months."

Cross-examined by MR. KEITH FRITH. I met Cluff accidentally—we are often out together—I never corroborated his evidence before.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I knew Mahoney's father—they are very respectable people—Cluff was there before I went.


THIRD COURT.—Saturday, June 27th, 1885.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-671
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Not Guilty > no evidence
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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671. GEORGE WILSON (21) and JOHN JONES (17) , Robbery with violence on Francis Schultz, and stealing a purse, a comb, and nineteen shillings, his property.

WILSON PLEADED GUILTY* to robbery without violence, and also to a conviction of felony in December, 1883.— Eighteen Months' Hard Labour.

MR. MARSHALL HALL , for the prosecution, offered no evidence against JONES.— NOT GUILTY .

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-672
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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672. HERBERT CONSTANTINE (30) , Unlawfully publishing and selling to Walter Denny an obscene libel.

MR. MEAD Prosecuted; MESSRS. KRITH FRITH and HUGGINS Defended.

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment without Hard labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-673
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > unknown

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673. ALBERT EDWARD WATERIDGE (12), JOHN HALL (14), THOMAS RICHARD SIMPSON (17), and THOMAS HENRY MINHINNICK (15) , Feloniously breaking and entering the Church of St Mary, Brookfields, with intent to steal. WATERIDGE, HALL, and SIMPSON PLEADED GUILTY .

MR. GEARY Prosecuted; MR. KEITH FRITH Defended.

WALTER HANBURY (Policeman Y 15). On the 19th May I apprehended Wateridge on another charge—in the presence of Minhinnick at the station he said, "I broke into St. Mary's Church in the morning with Hall, Simpson, and Minhinnick; I broke a window, got in, opened the door, and let the others in. Simpson was about to enter the door when he saw a man in the church, and they all ran away. They did not get anything." The other prisoners said it was right, and made similar statements—Minhinnick said "I was there," nothing else.

Cross-examined. I have not a note of what he said—all he said was, "I was there"—he might have said, "I was with the other boys"—if he says he was within 250 yards of the place, although with the other boys, I could not contradict it.

Re-examined. All I know of his being present was what he himself said.

REV. DANIEL COOK . I am the vicar of this church at St. Pancras, and live at 46, Chetwynd Road—I was at the church at 5 o'clock the evening before; I know the verger left it closed; the boxes were right then—at 7.30 next morning, when we had an early service, it was all right—I went again at 11 o'clock, and then I found that a small fixed window had been smashed and the door opened—the door had been bolted on the inside when I left—I missed nothing.

ALBEBT EDWARD WATERIDGE (The prisoner). I am 13 in August—I and Simpson smashed the window of St. Mary's with a stone on May-day, and I got in through the window—Minhinniok was about 150 yards away, over the other side of the field, standing on the fence—I got in the church, turned the key, and opened the door—Simpson came in and saw

a man, and we ran out—no one besides me and Simpson were in the church—we all four ran away, Minhinnick as well—he said nothing to me—we were going up to Highgate Pouds fishing together—before I went to the church I said to Minhinnick, "Look to see if any one is coming"—he said nothing to that—he whistled before we broke in.

THOMAS RICHARD SIMPSON (The prisoner). We were all going up to Highgate fishing—I and Wateridge made up our minds for this—he got a stone and broke the window, and I pulled the lead off—he got through, I watched, then he opened the door, and I was going to enter when I heard a man coming through the church, and we all ran away—Hall and Minhinnick were in the field, and after they saw us running they ran with us—they did not know what was the matter—we did not say anything to them about it.


22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-674
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

674. ALBERT EDWARD WATERIDGE, JOHN HALL , and WILLIAM ALBERT LANE (15) PLEADED GUILTY to breaking and entering the Church of St. Augustine, and stealing therein pieces of candle and other articles, the property of the Vicar and Churchwardens , And

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-675
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > no evidence
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour; No Punishment > sentence respited; Miscellaneous > sureties

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675. ALBERT EDWARD WATERIDGE , JOHN HALL , and HARRY NEWMAN (12) [Pleaded guilty: see original trial image.] to breaking and entering a school house, and stealing therein 6s. The Prosecution offered no evidence against SIMPSON — NOT GUILTY . Wateridge and Hall also PLEADED GUILTY to a conviction of felony on 25th June, 1882. It was stated that there were many other cases of sacrilege and housebreaking against them. SIMPSON— Six Months' Hard Labour. WATERIDGE and HALL— Judgment respited to next Session. NEWMAN and LANE— Discharged on recognisances.

OLD COURT.—Tuesday, June 30th, 1885.

Before Mr. Recorder.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-676
VerdictGuilty > pleaded part guilty; Not Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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676. WILLIAM MANDALL (46), GEORGE ALEXANDER ALLEN (29), WALTER VALE (23), and ALBERT QUILTER (62) were indicted for feloniously breaking and entering the warehouse of John Pearce, and stealing 97 pieces of lustre twill and other goods, value 110 l. Other Counts for feloniously receiving the same. QUILTER PLEADED GUILTY to receiving.

MESSRS. POLAND and MEAD Prosecuted.

JOHN PEARCE . I am a manufacturer's agent—I have a warehouse on the first floor at 30, Knightrider Street—no one sleeps on the premises—on Saturday, 2nd May, at 25 minutes past 2 in the afternoon, I shut up safely by locking tho door—on Monday morning, the 4th, I came at my usual time, and found the place had been entered—I missed four bales of woollen goods and other property to the value of over 110l.—there were seven pieces of lustre twill of 71 yards each, one piece of blue soleil of 20 yards, and 50 yards of blue cashmere—under the counter I found a new packing hammer which did not belong to me, also the lock which had been wrenched off the door—the police have since shown me some of my things.

HARRY WATSON (City Police Sergeant 80). On Saturday, 2nd May, about 8 p.m., I was called to 30, Knightrider Street, and found the street door open; it was standing back; it is a double door—I went upstairs

and saw Mr. Pearce's office—the lock was broken and the premises entered—the padlock was gone from the door.

ARCHIBALD HUNTER . I am a master carman living at 92, Westmoreland Place, City Road—I know Allen—on Saturday, 2nd May, he came to my place of business about half-past 11 in the morning and said he wanted a van to go to the City, he did not mention what part, to fetch, some things away—I got my van, and he directed me to Knightrider Street—we stopped first of all just by the church—I suppose that must have been half-past 12—Allen told me to wait there—he got down and walked about, but he did not go away from the van—after a time he told me to follow him—I did so, and we went to the other end of Knightrider Street—there were four parcels or bales there; whether they were in the passage or not I don't know—they were put in my van—they were at the bottom of the warehouse—I never took notice of the number—Allen and a chap named Mandall, the prisoner's son, belonging to the Great Eastern, who was coming by, lifted them into the van, and I took them to the Vinegar Ground in Old Street—Allen rode with me and told me where to drive to—when we got there we unloaded them and put them in a shed at the corner—I do not know who unfastened the shed, I was at the horse's head; I do not know whether Allen undid the door or not—after we had left the bales in the shed we went to the City Road to the Three Crowns public-house, and I had some drink there with Allen and Vale—that was the first time I had seen Vale, in the public-house—he asked me how much; I told him 5s., and he paid me—this canvas (produced) is similar to that in which the bales were wrapped—I had nothing to do with removing any goods on Monday; I never saw either Allen or Vale on that day.

Cross-examined by Allen. When you came to me at 11.30 you told me to stop at the George public-house at the corner of Vinegar Ground—I did not see Quilter—I did not go to the public-house at the corner of Vinegar Ground and stand two pots of ale, that I know of—Quilter might have jumped up into the van and rode with me; I won't be sure—I don't remember seeing him ride with me—I don't remember lending him a shilling—I remember you being with me by the side of the van all day; I did not lose sight of you—I don't remember my giving Quilter a pint of ale at the corner of the public-house just before the van drove away, and your going over to the other public-house.

Cross-examined by Vale. I don't remember your coming to me on the 2nd of May at 11.30 in the morning, and ordering a van of me—when the detective came into Quilter's shop on the Thursday you were arrested he asked me if I remembered your ordering a van—I told him no, but that you paid me—I never saw you before—to the best of my recollection I went to Knightrider Street at 12 o'clook; it might have been 12.30 when I got there—I did not see you there—I left Knightrider Street loaded about 2.30—I don't remember saying before the Magistrate it was 1.30—I did not see you in Knightrider Street at all.

Re-examined. I don't know what time I finally went away from Knightrider Street—we had been waiting about there—I did not see who was inside the warehouse, or who brought out the bales.

WILLIAM MANDALL . I am a carman in the employment of the Great Eastern Railway, and live at 13, Bradford Street, City Road—I was in Knightrider Street on the afternoon of 2nd May; I had been to 136, Aueen Victoria Street, the Civil Service Stores, and I was going through

Knightrider Street to No. 124, and saw the last witness there with a van, and he asked me to lift some bales into the van—he said his feet were so bad he could not do it—I saw Allen there; he assisted me—I and the last witness and Allen then went into a public-house, and had a drink of beer, and the van went away loaded with these four bales—I could not see into the warehouse.

Cross-examined by Allen. You were outside the warehouse—the van was facing the door—we put the goods on the tail-board, and Hunter pulled them from the back to the front of the van—I did not take much notice—I had my own work to attend to.

Cross-examined by Vale. I did not see you—I don't know you at all.

By the JURY. I should think it was between 1 and 2 o'clock when the van went away loaded.

Re-examined. My van was waiting there—the stores remain open till 2.30 or 3 o'clock—I can't fix the exact time, it was between 1 and 2 o'clock; it might have been between 2 and 3 o'clock—I don't know the time.

CAROLINE HYLANDS . I live at 38, Lucas Street, Commercial Road—I work for Messrs. Burton and Mardell, who have a place at 30, Knightrider Street—on Saturday, 2nd May, between 2.45 and 2.50, I left work, and was waiting at the door for somebody, Miss Turner and Hale were with me, I and Turner were together waiting for Miss Hale, the prisoner Vale pushed the door open and knocked by us—I looked to see where he was going; he never went anywhere but inside the doorway—he had a conversation with a darker man that I have not seen yet, and they went out at the door; passed right out—I was standing in the passage leading to the street; they are folding doors—Miss Hale came down while he was standing there—the reason why I took particular notice of Vale was by the rude way he pushed by—if he had passed by and said "Beg your pardon," and gone into the office, I should not have taken notice—on 22nd May I recognised him at Bridewell Station with about 20 other persons; I pointed him out—the coat he was wearing on 2nd May was much lighter than he has on now; it was a light overcoat with seams outside, but the coat I could not swear to.

Cross-examined by Vale. I was waiting in the passage about a minute or two before Hale came down—the two of you rushed in at the door together—the dark man stood on the doorstep; you were the man that pushed me—I closed the door whilst the other witness was doing up her boot-lace, and you pushed the door open, and pushed me on the shoulder—I thought you were going into the ground floor, as you stood on the bottom stair—I recognised you at Bridewell directly I opened the door—I did not walk by three or four times; I did not go at the back of you asaccompanied by Mr. Davidson and my fellow-witnesses—the witness went first and I went behind her—the witness said she would like to have a back view of you as well as the front—Mr. Davidson did not tell me that he would go up and touch you—I said "No, thank you, I am close enough to him," and I pointed you out.

JANE TURNER . I am a collar machinist, and work for Brown and Mardell, 30, Knightrider Street—on Saturday afternoon, 2nd May, about 2.45, I was with the last witness standing at the street door; I was tying up my boot-lace behind the door—somebody pushed the door very hard, and I looked up, and saw two men standing on the stairs, one was on

the third stair up, the other one was on the next stair—they stood there, and said something to each other—they were inside the door—I don't think they did anything to the last witness—they came up to the door, and after they had stood talking they went across the road—I recognise Vale as one of those men; I am quite sure he is one of them—I saw him afterwards at Bridewell Police-station with some other men, and picked him out—he had on a light coat.

Cross-examined by Vale. You had a coat on at the police-station something like the one you have on now—when I came to the station with the last witness I did not stand for some considerable time in front of you before I walked to the end where Detective Plummer was standing—when I came out I said to the other witness "That is the man"—I never spoke to Mr. Lavidson—I did not go with him to the back of you; I did with Mr. Pearce—I never said I thought you was the man—I did not point to the man next to you first as being the man—I recollect your wearing a light overcoat on 2nd May, I could not swear to it, I could not swear to the hat and trousers.

LOUISA HALE . I am a machinist, and work at Brown and Mardell's, 30, Knightrider Street—on Saturday afternoon, 2nd May, about 2.45, I was upstairs at work; the last two witnesses were waiting for me—I saw two men across the road, they were not standing together; I could not tell how near they were to each other—I picked out Vale at the station—to the best of my belief he is one of the two men.

Cross-examined by Vale. You were standing close to several men, I could not tell how many—I did not take particular notice how you were dressed—I went and asked Mr. Pearce if I might have a back view of you, as you had your back to me at the time I came downstairs, and I did so, with Mr. Pearce, not with Mr. Davidson—the other two witnesses were not with me then, they followed round after me—they had not been at the back of you.

FREDERICK JOSEPH PRISNELL . I live at 37, Hawkstone Road, Rotherhithe, and am a hairdresser—I know Vale as a customer—on Tuesday, 19th May, he left this light coat for me to take care of for him, he was to call for it on the Friday following; he was taken in custody before that—he was in the habit of coming to my shop, and I knew him well—the reason he gave for leaving it was, that he was going to the Newmarket races, and as it was a fine day he would leave it till he came back.

Cross-examined by Vale. I know you as a frequenter of race meetings—I can't remember seeing you repeatedly with the coat—I remember seeing one very much like it on 18th April, when you were going to Croydon races—a policeman called for the coat.

SAMUEL MANDALL . I am a carman; the prisoner is my father—I remember going on Monday, 4th May, between 3 and 4, to the Vinegar Ground—I saw Allen and Quilter there—we went round to Quilter's shed and I took some bales away—Vale and two or three other men asked me to take them out—Quilter was there, but he did not tell me anything—Allen helped me to load the van—one of tke men that helped load the van came with me and told me to drive them to Green Street, Bethnal Green—I drove them there—I went into a public-house; he gave me sixpence to have something to drink, and when I came out the van had been driven away—the bales were wrapped in canvas like that—when I came out of the public-house I saw Allen, Quilter, and two other men; I

do not recognise either of the two men—this public-house is just a few doors past Quitter's place.

Cross-examined by Allen. You did not say on the Monday "Come and help me"—I remember seeing Quilter there—I do not remember seeing you after the van moved from the shed.

JOHN DAVIDSON (City Detective). On Wednesday, 20th May, I saw William Perry, who lives at 30, Bath Street, City Road; his mother keeps a wardrobe shop there—he gave me these 50 yards of twill in two pieces, and two dresses made up—later in the day I went with him to some stables in the City Road and there saw the prisoner Mandall—I was in company with detectives Maroney and Plummer—I said "We are police officers, did you sell to this man Perry two pieces of dress stuff?"—he said "Yes"—I said "It is stolen, where did you get it from?"—he said "I bought it of a man at the corner of East Road"—I said "What man?"—he said "I don't know"—I said "Do you know his name, or where he lives?"—he said "No"—I said "Is that the only explanation you are going to give?"—he said "I don't know no more about it"—I said "How much did you give for it?"—he said "Well, I did not buy it at all, I sold it, and only got a drink of beer out of it"—I said "You must consider yourself in my custody on a charge of being concerned with others not in custody in breaking and entering an office at 30, Knightrider Street, and stealing therefrom four bales of dress stuff and one piece of blue soleil on Saturday, 2nd May last"—he said "I don't know anything about it, only what I have told you"—on the way to the station he said "You say the 2nd of May, Mr. Hunter my master can prove that I was removing pianos at Penton Street, Pentonville, on Saturday, 2nd May"—I took Perry into custody and took both to the station; Perry was afterwards discharged—on Thursday, 21st, Mandall sent for me, and I went and saw him in the cell—he then made a statement to me which I wrote down as follows: "On Saturday, 2nd May, I was at Mr. Phillips's, Penton Works, Panton Street; Mr. Hunter went into the City and said to me 'I am going to the City to do a job.' I got one of Emm's vans for him. On Sunday morning, 3rd May, I met a man whose name I believe to be George. This man was the man who went with Mr. Hunter to the City to do this job. He said to me 'Do you know any person that will buy two pieces of stuff?' I said 'Bring them round and I will try and sell them.' I sold them to Mr. Perry for 10s."—on Thursday, 21st May, I went with the two officers mentioned and Hunter to Quilter's shop, 127, Hope Street, City Road, bed and mattress maker; I saw Vale and Quilter sitting down together in the shop in conversation—I said to Vale "This man has identified you," pointing to the witness Hunter, "as a person who engaged a van to bring four bales of dress stuff and other articles from No. 30, Knightrider Street on Saturday, 2nd May last; that property was stolen, what do you know about it?"—he said "I don't know anything about it"—I said "You must consider yourself in my custody on a charge of being concerned with one in custody and others not in custody in breaking and entering an office at 20, Knightrider Street and stealing four bales of stuff and other articles, on Saturday, 2nd May last"—he made no further reply—I then had some conversation with Quilter, and the result was I took both of them in custody I then searched Quilter's premises, and found this piece of canvas in the basement

bearing the letters "F. W. E. and Co., E. D.," and in the hall, between the rafters and the tiling, I found this piece of blue soleil, marked "8," and other property, which I showed to the prisoners at the station—while speaking to Quilter in the shop I said to him in Vale's presence "Where are the keys of the shed?"—he pointed to the keys hanging in the shop; he handed them to me; I said "Can any one have these keys without your knowledge?"—he said "No"—on Friday, 29th May, I saw Allen at Bridewell Police-station—he had been arrested by Newby—I said to him "You will be charged with being concerned with others in custody in breaking and entering the office at 30, Knightrider Street, and stealing therefrom four bales of silk dress stuff and a piece of blue soleil on Saturday, 2nd May"—he then made the following statement, which I wrote down: "On Saturday, 2nd May, I was engaged by Mr. Quilter to get a van at 12 o'clock noon to do a job. I went to the place in the City Road and hired a van to stop at the corner of the Vinegar Ground. Quilter came to me there and a carman, and Quilter rode with the van to Knightrider Street. When we got there a man with a fair moustache spoke to Mr. Quilter; the fair man said to Mr. Quilter 'Load the van up.' We stopped there about two hours. Quilter and the man with the fair moustache went upstairs. I went upstairs, and the man with the fair moustache said 'Bring these bales out.' We brought them cut and loaded them into the van with the assistance of a young man named Mandall. Mr. Quilter, I, and Hunter, the carman, went to a public-house and had a pot of ale; the fair moustache man came into the public-house and said 'Drive this van away,' and I and Hunter then drove the van and contents to a shed in the Vinegar Ground. Mr. Hunter and a man assisted in unloading the van, and placed it into the shed; then Mr. Hunter and a Jew man, and the man with the fair moustache, went to the Three Crowns public-house and had a pot of ale. The fair moustache man paid to Hunter 6s. for the hire of the van; Hunter then went away. I then received 3s. from the fair moustache man for my labour. I then left the Jew man and the fair moustache man together. I saw Quilter in the Vinegar Ground while I was speaking to a man named Mundall. I said to Quilter 'Where are you going?' He said 'I am going to take a bit of the cloth.' I said 'Will you give me a bit?' He said 'Yes, you can have a bit.' I then went with him to the shed, and he gave me two pieces of cloth. I gave it to Bill Mandall and asked him if he could sell it, and he took it from me and said he had sold it to a man named Perry for 10s., and said 'Perry says he has bought stuff at the same price.' I received 5s. from Mandall on the Monday night. About 12 o'clock noon on Monday, 4th May, the fair moustache man, in company with Quilter and a man (a description of whom is given) met me in the George the Fourth public-house; Quilter said to me 'Could you get a van?' I said 'Yes,' and I could not get one, and Quilter went to Old Street and got a van. Mandall's son was the carman. I and the carman loaded the van with the same stuff from the shed that was put in the shed on Saturday. I, Quilter, and the fair moustache man went to the Jolly Butchers public-house and had a glass of ale. Mandall's son and the Jew man drove away with the van, I never saw any more of them"—Allen signed that statement—he never told me the name of the fair moustache man—I examined the door of

Mr. Pearce's premises on the first floor, and found that the marks on the jamb of the door corresponded with the hammer that was found.

WILLIAM PERRY . I live at 30, Bath Street, City Road, and am a master carman—on Sunday, 3rd May, I was in my yard about 7 o'clock in the morning, and the prisoner Mandall came to me—I knew he worked for Mr. Hunter—he asked me if I could do with two pieces of stuff—I asked what sort of stuff it was—he asked whether I could go over and have a look at it at his house—I asked him if it was all right; he said it was all right, that a man named George gave it to him to sell—I went over to his house and he cut me off two pieces as patterns—I showed them to my mother on the Monday morning—next day I saw Mandall again and gave him 10s. for it; this is the stuff—I was taken into custody—I made a statement to the police and was allowed to go—I do not know Allen.

JAMES NEWBY (Police Sergeant). On the 29th May I arrested Allen in Murray Street, Hoxton—I told him I should take him into custody for being concerned with Quilter and others in a robbery in a warehouse in the City—he said "I know nothing about it; I have been in the country for a week; I suppose I shall get over the job"—he was taken into custody, and then Davidson saw him.

JOHN PEARCE (Re-examined). The property produced is mine—those two pieces that were sold for ten shillings are worth about one pound a piece—I can swear to this canvas—this property was on my premises on the 2nd May, and I missed it on the 4th.

Mandall's Defence. The first statement I made was false; the second is quite true.

Allen's Defence. I was hired on the Saturday morning to do this job by Mr. Quilter. I always took him to be a respectable shopkeeper. He asked me if I could get a van. I said "Yes." I asked Hunter could he let me have a van. He said "Who for?" I said "Mr. Quilter." Quilter was there, and we drove into Knightrider Street with Mr. Hunter. I never moved away from him. I thought I was doing a job to earn an honest shilling. I never thought of what it was. I am very sorry indeed. I am quite innocent.

Vale's Defence. I wish to say a few words with respect to the evidence of Mr. Davidson. He says when Hunter came into the shop he identified me as the man that hired the van of him on the 2nd May. Mr. Quilter says he never saw me before, and I did not hire it. I can prove I never left home on Saturday till half-past 1. I was dressed as I am now. I never wore a light coat in my life. I wish to call my mother as a witness. All these men are entire strangers to me; I never saw them before, or the man Perry either.

SUSAN VALE . I am the prisoner Vale's stepmother—on 2nd May he never left home till a quarter-past 1 in the day—he was not well—it might have been nearer the half-hour, but I can swear he did not leave his home till turned a quarter-past 1, and he was dressed exactly as he is now—he possessed no overcoat.

Cross-examined. I live at 42, Beeton Road, Bermondsey—it was not a quarter-past 12 when he left home—I fix the time a quarter-past 1, because I wanted to go out that day; and as he did not have his breakfast till past 11, I could not get ready to go—he had no work that day—I have seen him wearing this coat.

MANDALL— NOT GUILTY . ALLEN and VALE— GUILTY . Allen then PLEADED GUILTY to a previous conviction at Clerkenwell on 9th April, 1833, and another conviction was proved against him in October, 1870. ALLEN and VALE— Seven Years' Penal Servitude each.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-677
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown; Miscellaneous > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour; Imprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

677. WALTER VALE and ALBERT QUILTER indicted, with SOLOMON SOLOMONS (40) and REBECCA ISAACS (39), for feloniously breaking and entering the warehouse of John Grover, and stealing six pieces of Oxford shirting and other goods value 120l.; and also for receiving the same.

QUILTER PLEADED GUILTY . After the Jury were sworn, Counsel for Solomon and Isaacs stated that their clients would retract their plea of NOT GUILTY and plead GUILTY; and the Jury, on hearing the prisoners so state, found them GUILTY . As to VALE, the Jury were discharged from returning any verdict. Solomons also PLEADED GUILTY to a previous conviction at Worship Street on the 29th February, 1884. Two witnesses deposed to Quitter's good character. QUILTER and SOLOMONS— Eighteen Months' Hard Labour each. ISAACS— Twelve Months' Hard Labour. There were other indictments against the prisoners.

The Grand Jury made a presentment in this case, expressing their satisfaction at the energy displayed by Davidson and the other officers, in which the Court and Jury concurred.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-678
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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678. THOMAS SIMMONS (38) , Embezzling 135l. of John Henry Lamb, his master.

MR. GOODRICH Prosecuted; MR. GEOGHEGAN Defended.

JOHN HENRY LAMB . I am a solicitor, residing at Ealing; I carry on business there and in London—on 20th May the prisoner was in my employment as a clerk, he was introduced to me at the beginning of March by a man named Sewell, who was formerly in my employment—I was looking out for some premises in London to carry on my business—the prisoner said he had an office in the Outer Temple, and if I Iiked I could put my name on the door to use it as an address for service—he then said he could help me in what I wanted to do, as he understood the law, and he proposed that he should have some commission on introducing business—I said I would think it over, and next day I received this letter from him—I afterwards saw him on the subject, and said I could not come to any arrangement of the sort suggested, and he then said "Will you give me 1l. per week?" and I agreed to that, for his services as clerk, and I agreed to give him 10l. a year for the use of the room—I have paid him the 1l. a week regularly up to the time he was given in custody—he acted for me during that period—I was acting for the plaintiff in an action of Tidy v. Luff—this letter, dated 8th May, is in Sewell's handwriting—the prisoner told me that Mr. Luff had called and made an offer of about 100l.—he had shown me a draft letter which he had written to Mr. Tidy for my approval—I approved of it, and he gave it to Sewell, who was in the office, to copy, and I signed it—this is it—on 27th May the prisoner told me he had settled the action, that he was providentially at the office—I said "For how much?"—he said "For 110l., I tried to get another 5l."—I asked where the money was—he said it was quite safe, it was in the bank—I asked him to give it me, and he said he would see me the following day, the 28th—he then said

he had more important matters to attend to just then, and he could not go with me to the bank—I asked him where it was, and what bank—he said the London and South-Western Bank, Regent's Circus; that was not my bank—on parting with him I went to Regent's Circus, but didn't find any bank there, and I went to Piccadilly Circus—I sought an interview with my client, Mr. Tidy, the following morning—I met the prisoner in Wellington Street, Strand—I said "Now I want you to come with me to the bank and get this money"—he again said he had not time, but he would give it me next day—I said I should give him in charge if he didn't pay it, and I took him to the Bow Street Station and gave him in charge—this (produced) is the prisoner's receipt for the 125l.

Cross-examined. I considered the prisoner my clerk or servant all through—before I commenced practice in the Outer Temple I was in Lower Road, Kensington—I gave up that office in October, 1884, businness being depressed—when I gave the prisoner in custody he said he would make out an account—I did not hear him say anything about having paid several bills for me—I did not, to my knowledge, tell the police sergeant that the prisoner was not a clerk or servant of mine; I don't remember it, I was very excited at the time—I did not say that I didn't pay him any salary—I have no receipts of the prisoners✗; I don't keep receipts—I did not keep any books while I was there; I was only there a few weeks—I took out my certificate last year—I don't think my name is in the "Law List" in 1884 or 1885—Simmons's name was on the door in the Outer Temple, and my name was underneath—his name was there long before I came there—he introduced me to Mr. Braham; it was after that I took out my certificate—I got some money from Mr. Braham; I assigned a debt—I don't know who paid for painting my name on the door, I did not; I don't know that it has been paid—the prisoner said he would get it done for me—I think I gave him a few shillings towards it—it was not arranged that the business done at the office should be equally divided between us—the prisoner signed judgment in Tidy v. Luff, as my clerk, in the usual way—he gave me 2l. at that time, which he said a client had called and paid on my behalf, and I gave him a memorandum for it—I asked him the name of the client, but he has such a peculiar manner about him—my bank was the Birkbeck—at the time I made the prisoner's acquaintance I think there was one judgment summons out against me for about 2l., that was all—there was no warrant for income-tax; I was told there was, to keep me away from my office—if I had paid this 125l. in to my own bank, I don't think my creditors would have attached it; they might have done so in point of law, but I am sure they would not, they were not pressing me—I had more than two cases in hand while I was at the Outer Temple—the prisoner did not introduce any except Mr. Braham—Sewell gave evidence for the prisoner at the police-court—I did not take out a summons against Sewell or apply for one; I mentioned the matter to a clerk at Bow Street, but he advised me not—about two years ago, when Sewell was in my employ, he asked me to be security for him for 5l.; he said he would pay me back, but he has never done so.

GEORGE HERRY LUFF . I live at Clifton House, Alton, Hants—I was defendant in an action of Tidy and another against myself—the writ was served in November, 1884, Mr. Lamb was acting for Tidy—in May

there were negotiations for a settlement, and on 8th May I called at the office in the Outer Temple—I saw the prisoner and stated my case to his; I had previously written to Mr. Lamb that I would call on that day at a certain time—I told the prisoner I had come to make an offer in settlement of the claim in Tidy's case, and I stated what I would pay—I knew who he was before, because I had met him there in Mr. Lamb's presence, I knew him as Mr. Simmons—I made the offer, and he said no doubt it would be accepted, but he would represent it to Mr. Tidy; he asked when I should be prepared to pay—I said "The Tuesday week following, the 19th"—I called on that day to pay, and I saw the prisoner—he said "I can't say anything about it now, I must consult my superior, are you staying in London to-night?"—I said I was, and gave him my address, and in the evening he wrote for me to call next day, the 20th—I did so, but there was no one there, there was a paper on the door "Return at 12"—I saw Sewell and the prisoner that day, and I paid the 125l. to the prisoner and took his receipt, Sewell was present—I paid 120l. in bank notes and 5l. in gold. (The receipt was signed "J. H. Lamb, per T, S.") The prisoner never stated to me what his position was in relation to the prosecutor, that I remember.


22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-679
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

679. WILLIAM FLAXMAN (37) , Unlawfully obtaining from Jacques Ramsauer large quantities of embroideries and lace by false pretences, with intent to defraud. Other Counts, for conspiring with Morris Danziger to obtain the said goods.

MR. GRAIN Prosecuted; MR. SCARLETT Defended.

JACQUES RAMSAUER (Interpreted). I live at Waldstadt in Switzerland, and am a lace and embroidery manufacturer—in February or March, 1885, I was in London and went to Flaxman and Danziger's office, 58, Cheapside—before that I had received this memorandum: "Flaxman and Danziger, merchants and factors, importers of watches, 80, Cheapside, and at New York. We have waited until to-day for the promised sample pieces, please send them as soon as possible, otherwise we must place our order somewhere else. Please call on Thursday." I saw the prisoner when I called—he said he was very pleased to see me, and not only my agent, as he hoped to do some good business with me; that he had a good many orders from New York for embroideries and that the 15th of each month would be his day of payment; that his partner was a rich man and his parents were rich, and he would conduct the business, that he always had a few hundreds at his bankers; that he did not think I should be able to execute all the orders he would give me—after that I went with Flaxman to his office at 7, Castle Street, Oxford Street, with about 222l. worth of embroideries—the prisoner looked at and purchased the whole of them—I let him have the goods, believing what he had said at the interviews—all I had for the goods was 8l. and a silver and gilt watch worth 10l.—about 8th March I left for Switzerland—Flaxman had made arrangements to visit me there, and shortly after my return I received this letter in German from Flaxman and Danziger. (This stated that Flaxman would be with him in two or three weeks, that a watch had been ordered from the manufactory, that they could make use of a parcel of ribbons if he would send one; that they would like a letter of recommendation to silk mercers, that Flaxman would settle up up when he arrived; that they had received embroidered covert from Mr.

Wetter, and would like to know how long it would take him, Ramsauer, to deliver 5,000 pieces.) I did not reply—on 19th March I received this from the prisoner and Danziger. (Requesting him to send samples of everything he had in stock and 5l. worth of covers, and stating that Flaxman would return what was not saleable, and would gladden him with cash.) My heart was never gladdened with cash beyond the amount I have said—I received this other letter on 23rd March. (This stated that Flaxman had so many orders that he could scarcely spare time to journey to Switzerland, but that he hoped to undertake it; that he hoped he would fulfil the order by 30th April, as otherwise he could not trust further orders, and that he had given his (Ramsauer's) name as a reference to another firm.) After that Flaxman came and stopped as a guest at my house, and on that occasion I got the only money I ever had from him, 8l. and 10l. on account—that and the watch is all I have received from him—he told me I need never be short of money—if I required cash at any time I had only to telegraph to him, and he could always supply me with about 10,000 francs—I told him I should like a little money then, and it was then I got the 10l.—at the same time he showed me these two bills, and said I could take which I liked in payment, and turn them into cash and discount them—I asked him about the names on them—he said they were all good firms, and that he was doing very good business with them—I did not understand very well about bills, I preferred to have money—he said, "These bills are as good as money at any bank," and that he would sooner shoot himself than cheat me—after that I showed him goods, and he selected cambric goods to 160l., and cambric and lace to 30l., and some embroidered and lace curtains, 119l., and a parcel of cambrics, 14l.; total, 323l.—he told me to take which bill I liked; I took the biggest. (This was a bill at three months, dated March 12th, 1885, for 199l. 14s. 6d., payable to Mr. James McIntyre, 9, Moorgate Street, at the Royal Exchange Bank, drawn by Levy and Co.) After he had looked out the goods he gave me these two bills. (These were drawn by the prosecutor on Flaxman and Danziger, dated 27th March, at three months, for 98l. 18s. 9d. and 92l. 10s.) The prisoner accepted this in my presence—he told me he wanted the goods very urgently—he gave me samples on which I was to manufacture goods amounting in all to 1,600l.—he said Danziger his partner had sent him an order for 34,000 yards from Liverpool—I went with the prisoner to Messrs. Locker and Krusi, taking this bill which he had accepted for 199l. 14s. 6d.—the prisoner left Switzerland, and afterwards I received this letter from Zurich dated 4th April. (Asking him to let them know if he had received the money from Locker and Krusi, to answer inquiries respecting them, and to dispatch the goods promptly.) Having heard of different matters I came to London about 12th April and communicated with my solicitor, after having made inquiries here about Flaxman—I then went to a Mr. Hart with Detective Taylor, and there saw three boxes of lace of the goods I had sold to Flaxman in the same state as when I sold them, unbleached—they should be bleached before they are marketable—I also at Hart's saw some samples which I had sold the prisoner in London—I also went to a Mr. Hans, Jewin's Crescent, where I saw some goods I had sold to the prisoner—I am a loser altogether of 550l. by this man—the bills I had have never been paid—I gave them to some one with instructions to present them when they became due.

Cross-examined. I have been in business about a year and a quarter

on my own account, and about 11 months before that in another business, and before that at Neufchatel in a school of industry for 15 months—I had done some business in London through Mr. Wetter, the agent who introduced me to Flaxman and Danziger—Mr. Wetter is here—I was about to leave England when I received a letter from Flaxman and Danziger asking me to call—when the prisoner told me he had money in the bank it was after the goods were sold, but he had first told me about Danziger his partner being a rich man—I made some inquiries about the firm while in London, and received good references through Mr. Wettor, my agent, in whose possession the goods were—the statements about Danziger being a rich man and doing a large business were all made before he purchased the goods—he said he would give me orders, and I ought to have sufficient in stock to comply with them—I do not know that he carried on a bona fide business in watches in Cheapside—I saw a number of watches and chains there—he was only anxious to sell one to me—the whole of the second lot of goods I delivered in Switzerland—the 16,000l. worth of goods which be ordered would have taken three or four months to make—I came over here on 12th April, and afterwards I made inquiries as to the solvency and position of those traders after ascertaining the nature of their business position—before I made any inquiry I wrote this memorandum, "Account stated with Messrs. Flaxman and Danziger, 14th April, 1885. Above-named firm indebted to me for goods, 515l., against which I have received bills, 391l. 3s. 3d., so that the firm is now indebted to me 124l."—very few unbleached goods come to England.

JEAN KRUSI . I live at Sansegal and am one of the firm of Locker and Krusi, lace manufacturers—I supplied goods to Flaxman and Danziger through our agent, to the amount of 99l., and then to the amount of 42l.—on 1st April the prisoner came alone to my house and then with the last witness—the prisoner showed me this bill for 199l. and said "These are all good firms, first-rate firms, general merchants and shippers with whom I do business"—I said "Is that the very same firm as Mclutire; I know there is a house of Mclntire"—I consented to discount the bills, and advanced 12,000 francs to Ramsauer and 1,000 francs to the prisoner, and said I would pay the balance in a few days, on the Saturday—I asked him about his own business, he said he had three travellers, two clerks, a bookkeeper, and did a good business; that his principal branch was the watch branch, his sample stock of watches and chains being worth 2,000l.—he came next day and gave me an order for about 150l. worth of embroidery—he showed me this bill for 180l., and said again, "These are very good firms"—I would not accept it at first, afterwards I said "I will accept it, I think it is better than your own acceptance alone"—I sent off afterwards two cases value 120l. to London, but fortunately I made inquiries and stopped them before they were delivered.

Cross-examined. The conversation about the travellers and clerks was on the evening after the transaction had taken place—I saw the bill in Mr. Ramsauer's possession—the prisoner gave me the bill and asked me to transact it—the prisoner and I talk the same language—I had no conversation with Mr. Ramsauer or the prisoner previously—I saw the bill had two endorsements, and I had made inquiries from the prisoner, who did business with our agents, that it how we were introduced—we

had merely had a glass of beer when the conversation about the clerks and travellers took place.

MORRIS EDELSTEIN . I am a commission agent in sugars and whatever I get a chance at—I carry on business as James McIntire and Company, at 9, Moorgate Street—Mr. Placey is a commission agent in the same office in the name of Robert Jeffreys—Mr. Everard used to trade as Everard, Wilson, and Company, general merchants and agents, at 42, Old Broad Street—I don't know where he is now—I sell goods on commission for other people if I get a chance—I have never had any transactions with Flaxman and Miller or Flaxman and Danziger or Flaxman—I have never traded as Everard Wilson and Co.—I had no banking account in March last—the acceptance to this bill, James Mclntire, was written by me—Levy drew the bill and Moss gave it to me, he had come in with the bill form stamped, and I accepted it in blank—he told me it was for a firm that would take it up at maturity—I got ¼ per cent. on the amount of the bill for doing it—I had not money of my own to pay the 199l. at that time—Mr. Moss signed this bill as Robert Jeffreys; I accepted it payable at the London and South-Western Bank as Everard, Wilson, and Co., by the authority of Everard—he told me to sign it—we were formerly in business together—I got nothing for that, Everard got something.

Cross-examined. The prisoner is a perfect stranger to me, I had not seen him before I saw him at the Mansion House, except once—I carry on a legitimate commission business—I live at Dorset Villa, Stamford Road, with my wife and family, and pay rent and my way there.

MAGNUS MOSS . I am a commission agent, I have no place of business now—I paid the last witness 5s. for accepting this bill, and for this second one I have paid Everard ¼ per cent., rather more than 5s.—Everard put the stamp on and said to Edelstein "As I have shaken hands will you kindly write for me?"—this was at the post-office—we went back to the office, and I took the bills to the prisoner at Cheapside.

Cross-examined. I have not had a place of business since February or March, I was in the name of Moss and Co.—I have been in this country four or five years, I have never come in contact with the police authorities—I have represented a Paris banking-house and a Marseilles house, I decline to give the names of the houses—the Paris house was one of reputation, the Marseilles house I represented for one year a year ago—I have manufactured a few other bills in this way, my name does not appear on them—Wetter, the agent, did not introduce me to Flaxman and Danziger, he gave me a memorandum, and said "Will you go down and see if I shall send the samples?"—I took the bill to the prisoner, when I got an order from him about the end of March—I have no books—I have never had any goods from the prisoner—I never buy goods, I only buy and sell on commission—I did not give the prisoner these bills in payment for goods I had purchased of him—I never engaged anybody to carry goods from the prisoner's, Cheapside, to Broad Street Station, I did not give him a shilling for doing it and did not send him back to fetch my umbrella which I had left at Flaxman and Danziger's—I bought no goods at all from Flaxman and Danziger—I have never seen Bates in my life before—I accommodate other people with bills—my private address is 29, Frith Street, Soho—I pay 5s. a week rent.

Re-examined. I take as much as I can get for an accommodation bill.

JOSEPH LEVY . I do a little commission business in the City; I do not make bills, some firms occasionally draw upon me—this is my signature—this is my stamp to stamp bills—I never bought goods of the prisoner and never saw him till at the Mansion House—I do not know Danziger—I gave the bill to Mr. Moss and got 5s. for it—there may be one or two other bills about with my signature.

Cross-examined. I carry on a legitimate commission business.

JAMES ADOLPH PLACEY . I was a merchant's clerk, but am a commission agent now—I live at 7, Edward Street, Blackfriars—three months ago I went to 9, Moorgate Street, where I saw the name of Jeffreys up—I was introduced to Edelstein—I called him Mclntire—he asked me to adopt the name of Robert Jeffreys for the time being—I did so, and gave authority to Edelstein to sign this bill "Robert Jeffreys"—I had been to his office a fortnight before—I had not seen the prisoner before I went to the Mansion House—I have not been paid for giving him authority to sign the bill.

RICHARD TILBROOK . I was the prisoner's office-boy at Cheapside, and before that at 61, Victoria Street, where he occupied the room on the fourth floor—the name of "Flaxman and Miller" was on the door—I never saw Miller, nor any clerks nor travellers—when the prisoner was at the office he was generally writing, but nearly all day he was walking about the City, I suppose, he was generally out—there were some new lamps there, which he sold off—I don't know of any other goods being there—we removed to 58, Cheapside, where the name of "Flaxman and Danziger" was put up—I saw a cash-book and one other book I think—the detectives did not take that—there were no clerks or travellers there—I was the only person employed.

Cross-examined. I went to Victoria Street about seven months ago—after a little while the prisoner told me Mr. Miller was away ill—I frequently saw people come up to see the prisoner—on the door was "Importers of watches and clocks"—I saw several watches there—I was in the prisoner's service seven months—I was not there when he was taken in custody—the only things at Victoria Street were watches and lamps—there were some boxes in the safe—foreign watches are imported in little boxes, which would be left when the watches were sold—there was a copy letter-book and cash-book I think—when the prisoner sent letters out they were copied first in the letter-book and then posted—he was never denied to anybody who called—he went out into the City in the course of the day in the ordinary course of his business.

Re-examined. This is the letter-book—all the letters were written in German—I don't know if there was a traveller—I dare say the prisoner would have told me if there was—I saw that gentleman (Pointing) once or twice at the office—I don't know him as traveller to the firm.

GEORGE WILLIAM SUTTON . I was engaged by the prisoner as office boy at five shillings a week from about 22nd April till he was taken into custody—on that day two detectives came to the room, and then the prisoner came with them and said, "Mr. Flaxman is not in, is he? he has gone out?"—I did not know what to say; I was surprised—the prisoner was taken away—he had the letter-book wrapped in paper under his arm at the time—while I was at 58, Cheapside I never saw any clerks or travellers there—lately there was a Mr. Beazley—I think he was a clerk—goods were sent to Mr. Hans, Jewin Crescent.

Cross-examined. People used to call on the prisoner—I knew Mr. Danziger as one of my masters—I was paid my wages—Danziger never paid them—goods were coming in and out of the office—I remember some cloth being sold at Pawson's, in St. Paul's Churchyard—Danziger was away for some days—the prisoner said he was ill—about a week afterwards there was a clerk in his place—I saw a letter-book and two books in the safe I think.

HENRY WOOLF . I am manager to Joshua Hans, of Jewin Crescent—I have bought goods of the prisoner—on 17th April there was 6,692 yards of embroidery for 55l. 15s. 4d.; on 22nd April I bought of him to the amount of 4l. 1s., and on 28th April 10,000 yards of muslim goods, 49l. 3s. 4d.; on 29th April antimacassars and table-covers, 31l. 10s.; and on 30th April curtains for 20l.—I have had other dealings with him—these are samples of them.

By the JURY. I bought them at the market value—I refused some because I did not think them cheap enough—we are general warehouse-men and job buyers—in the City all things are called "job" if they are cheap and for tender.

Cross-examined. It is a trick of the trade to call things "job;" people think they are cheap—our firm is highly respectable—the things were offered us in an ordinary manner—I was asked 162l.—I thought it too much and offered 110l.—they came to 112l.—I would not give the other 2l.—they went all round the City, and then came to me a fortnight after, and we declined.

FREDERICK WILLIAM BULL . I am foreman to Mr. S. A. Hart, of 14, Bury Street, St. Mary Axe, merchant and warehouseman—on 5th May the prisoner sent a parcel of samples to us, and three cases were delivered according to the samples—in consequence of a communication from the police they were handed over to the police.

Cross-examined. Mr. Hart is ill in bed.

HENRY TAYLOR (City Detective). On 5th May I went with another officer to the prisoner's office, 58, Cheapside, with a warrant—we went to the second floor—I saw the prisoner leaving the room—I said "You are Mr. Flaxman, are you not?"—he said "No, he has gone"—I said "Just step back into the office"—he opened the door, and said to the lad inside "Mr. Flaxman has gone, has he not?"—the boy hesitated, appeared astonished, and said at last, "Yes, he has gone"—I said "I know your name is Flaxman; we are officers of police, and have a warrant for your arrest"—he said "My name is not Flaxman; it is Fleshman"—he had the letter-book under his arm wrapped in paper—I read the warrant to him and took him to the station—in answer to the officer in charge there he said, "My name is Flaxman"—on the 6th I went to the offices and examined them—there was a large safe in the room locked—I unlocked it with the key—it contained a lot of empty watch-boxes, nicely arranged in front of the safe, labelled as if full, and some tied up, and some boxes containing toys—there were little pigeon-holes labelled Switzerland, France, Belgium, Germany, and so on—there were no letters in them, but papers—I found no ledger or day-book; only the letter-book in paper which he had left—I have not seen Mr. Danziger to my knowledge—there is a warrant against him—I have tried to find him without success.

Cross-examined. I know there is such a person—I am not aware that cigar merchants, chemists, and others put forward dummy things.

JAMES HENRY LOEWE . I have been through this letter-book—I understand German—I have taken extracts from all the letters, and am prepared to give the effect of them if asked—they relate to business transactions in Switzerland.

The RECORDER considered that at the delivery of the second parcel of goods took place in Switzerland the case should go to the Jury upon the first Count only.

Witnesses for the Defence.

THOMAS BATES . I have lived at 27, Acorn Street, Bishopsgate Street, for six or seven years, and am a bricklayer—I was for many years in the Grenadier Guards—in March I was seeking employment in Cheap-side; I was called to No. 58 and asked to carry two parcels of cardboard boxes for Moss to Broad Street Station—I had a companion, Biggs, in Cheapside—at Broad Street Station Moss gave me a shilling.

The COURT considered that this evidence was not material.

PRISCILLA KENNESLEY . I am a domestic servant, and have been in the prisoner's employment for some time—Danziger came in March, and left the day before the prisoner was taken—the day alter the prisoner returned from abroad he and Danziger had a quarrel directly he entered the door—that was Whit Monday, the day before the prisoner was taken—Danziger took a very heavy box away with him about the Saturday week before he went away—I assisted him downstairs with it—there had been three long account books in his room until he went away; I missed them afterwards—I saw Danziger with some watches on the Saturday before he went.

GUILTY .— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

NEW COURT.—Tuesday, June 30th, 1885.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-680
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

680. MICHAEL LIPMAN (35) and JOHN BRYANT (34) , Robbery with violence on George Singleton, and stealing 10s., his money.

MR. SAUNDERS Prosecuted; MR. GEOGHEGAN defended Lipman.

GEORGE SINGLETON . I am a french-poltsher, of 19, Little Drummond Street, Somers Town—on Sunday, 7th June, about 7 o'clock, I was leaving a urinal in Commercial Street, and the two prisoners knocked me down—I should not like to swear to them positively—they robbed me of all my money—I had changed a half-sovereign just before 12 o'clock at a public-house in Keppel Street, and I must have had about 8s.—I had been drinking—while I was down a constable came up and took them in custody—I had not noticed them in the urinal—I called out "Sam" to my brother, as I had missed him; he had been with me from 10 o'clock—I did not suffer much pain—I was shoved down.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I had 13s. 6d. when I left home about 7 o'clock—we were with a number of friends from 7 till 12 o'clock—I stood drinks, and that is how 5s. went—I was not sober—I can't say whether the ground flew up and hit me—I did not tumble down, I was shoved down—drunken people do sometimes find themselves on the

ground; I know I was on the ground, that is all; some one got on top of me.

Cross-examined by Bryant. I was not with my brother in the urinal, we had separated before that, and I did not see him again till the next morning, but he was not far off when I called out—we did not come into the urinal and act indecently, nor did you say "You might behave with decency"—I do not remember seeing you inside—I did not knock your hat off.

Re-examined. I was asked at the police-court whether I made water on Lipman, and I denied it.

SAMUEL MOORE (Policeman H 349). I was on duty in Commercial Street, opposite the urinal, but on the other side; I saw the two prisoners and Singleton outside the urinal—Lipman knocked him down partly with his foot and arm; it was not a straightforward blow, it was more of a shove than a hit; both prisoners then made a pounce on him, one on each side; he fell on his back, and they put their hands in his pockets one on each side; I ran over and caught Lipman by his collar and Bryant by his coat sleeve; they struggled, and Lipman struggled very desperately to get away—I held them for a few minutes, and was just thinking of releasing one of them, when Sergeant Lee came up, caught hold of Lipman and said "I know you, Lipman"—Lipman said "It is all up, Humpy, we had better go quietly; I give myself in charge." (Bryant is humpbacked.) I took them to the station and found 4 1/2 d. on Bryant—I saw Lipman make a strike at Singleton, but the blow did not properly catch.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. He missed hitting him straight—I was on the other side of the road—there are three lamps on the top of the urinal—the prisoners were not in the shade—I did not make a note of what Lipman said—he did not hold up both his hands when I came up and say, "Search me, I have got nothing," nor did he open both his hands. (The witness's deposition stated, "He said 'Did not you ask me what I had in my hands?' and I said 'Yes,' and I opened it and had nothing.") That is perfectly correct—that was read over to me and I did not correct it—there is not much difference whether it was one hand or two, there was nothing in either of his hands—he was searched at the station and only 2s. 8d. found on him—I held him as tight at I could; I got my fist between his collar and his neck, and he struggled—Singleton had been drinking, but he seemed to know what he was about.

Cross-examined by Bryant. You did not give yourself in custody; I took hold of you and struggled with you—Lipman said, "I give myself in custody," but that was after I had struggled with him; I had had him then five or six minutes; he struggled till the sergeant came up.

MARK LEE (Police Sergeant). On this Sunday, about 1 a.m., I was in Commercial Street, and saw a struggle on the opposite side—I went over and saw Singleton on the ground and Moore struggling with both the prisoners, holding each of their collars—I took hold of Lipman, who was struggling with Moore, and said, "I know you, Lipman"—he was endeavouring to untie his neck-handkerchief—he said to Bryant, "It is all up, Humpy, we will go quiet"—I took him to the station—he had on him 2s. 6d. in silver and 2 1/2 d. bronze, and Bryant had 2 1/2 d. bronze—

when they were charged at the station Lipman said to Singleton, "Were not you drinking with us?"

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. The station is about 300 yards from the urinal—Singleton walked there—I noticed no signs of violence about him—I did not examine him, but he was examined—I did not notice that his coat was torn—he knew perfectly well what he was doing—Lipman did not say in my presence "We will go quietly to the station, for I will give myself in charge"—the street is 30 yards broad, it is considerably wider than this court—there was no conversation after I came up about what he had in his hand—a search was made next morning, but no money was found.

Cross-examined by Bryant. When I came up Moore had got you by the throat.

Re-examined. The urinal is on the side of the street just opposite Shoreditch Church.

GUILTY of assault with intent to rob. They then PLEADED GUILTY ** to previous convictions, Lipman at Clerkenwell in February, 1884, and Bryant at Westminster in November, 1877.— Five Years' Penal Servitude each.

The COMMON SERJEANT highly commended the officer Moore.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-681
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

Related Material

681. JOSEPH ROUSE (29) and GEORGE ROOPE (30) , Robbery with violence on Thomas Stinton and stealing 1l. his money.

MR. HUGGINS Prosecuted.

THOMAS STENTOW . I am a hoister at some ironworks—on the night of 7th June I was coming out of the Great Northern Railway-station—I was the worse for drink—I saw the prisoners and two or three more—I said, "Which is my nearest way to get into the Caledonian Road?"—Roope said, "Come on, old chap, I will take you round the shortest way"—I went with them—five of them got me up against the wall and held my arms up, and Roope got his hands in my trousers pocket, not these trousers, and took out a sovereign and some halfpence—I had a bundle in my hand with a pair of boots and a waistcoat and coat in it—I missed the bundle, and the constable caught Rouse with it—I saw it again at the station—Rouse held my hands up.

Cross-examined by Rouse. It was between 11 and 12 o'clock—I told the Magistrate at Clerkenwell that it was 9 o'clock—I was a little the worse for drink, but a witness told me afterwards what time it was—you held my hands up, four of you did it—I was put against the wall—I think you could reach my hands—when the policeman asked if I had lost anything I did not say "No," I said "I have lost a sovereign and a few coppers as well"—I did not say I had lost 2l.—I do not remember your saying, "I don't think this man has lost anything, as I brought him from King's Cross," nor did the policeman say, "If you brought this man from King's Cross you must know something of him"—I asked you the way to the Caledonian Road, not to Somers Town.

Cross-examined by Roope. I had started from Southall at 8 o'clock—it was an hour's ride to King's Cross—it did not take me two and a half hours to get a hundred yards—I stopped at Westbourne Park some time with some friends, and we had a glass or two of beer together—it took me about half an hour to get from Westbourne Park to King's Cross—I stopped with my friends about an hour and a half, and left them at Westbourne Park—I do not recollect telling the inspector at the station

that I had lost 2l., and then that I had lost nothing, and then 1l.—I also lost a silk handkerchief—I did not claim a handkerchief that was there, but I said it was a good deal like it—I wanted to go to 16, Winchester Street, Caledonian Road.

HENRY FRANKLIN . I am a light porter, of 10, Henry Street, Hampstead Road—on 7th June, between 11 and 12 p.m., I saw Stenton outside the King's Cross Metropolitan Railway, drunk—the prisoners and three others were there—Stinton said that he wanted to go to Caledonian Road—Rouse said "Come along, I will show you," and assisted him and carried his parcel; the other three followed behind them, and I followed behind them to the Great Northern Station, and said to Roope "You are taking him the wrong way to Caledonian Road"—he said nothing, but gave me a blow on the mouth with the parcel, which loosened my teeth—I still followed them to where some doors are—Rouse put Stenton against the fence of the Great Northern Railway and held his hands up; he was not assisted, he did that by himself, and then Roope searched his pockets, and passed something to the other three men—I told a constable what I had seen—Roope struggled very violently with the constable.

Cross-examined by Rouse. Stenton had on corduroy trousers with a flap front, and I can almost swear that Roope unbuttoned the flap—I had not seen the man robbed when you struck me; when he was robbed I was in a doorway on the left side of the road, the side on which the robbery took place—I don't think it is 60 yards from one side of St. Pancras Road to the other—you were all five together when you said "I will show you the way"—it was you who held up Stenton's arms, and no one else; he was helplessly drunk, and could hardly walk—I did not see you speak to him at 11 o'clock opposite the Victoria public-house, just as the house was closing.

Cross-examined by Roope. Stenton came out of the station between 11 and 12 o'clock, he spoke to Rouse only—there were a lot of lamps at the station.

PATRICK REGAN . I am a letter-sorter, of 49, Queen Street, Camden Town—between 11 and 12 o'clock on June 7th I was at King's Cross Metropolitan Station and saw the two prisoners and three men not in custody, and a crowd of people surrounding the prosecutor, who was very drunk and asked the crowd the way to Caledonian Road—Rouse said "Come along with me, old chap, and I will show you the way"—he took him by the arm and took him in the opposite direction to Caledonian Road, across in front of the Great Northern Railway Station, and round St. Pancras Road and up against a hoarding, where they stopped—I passed them within two or three yards, still watching them—I went across the road, went up the same way as they had come down, and passed them a second time—I saw they were up to something wrong; they were jostling the man as if they wished to rob him—I got about four yards from the prosecutor and five men—Franklin was rather close to him, and Roope struck him with this bundle; Franklin then spoke to me, and I crossed the road and went to King's Cross Station for a constable, but not finding one I came back and still watched them, and saw Rouse hold the prosecutor's hands up against the railings, and I distinctly saw Roope dip his hands into the prosecutor's trousers pockets—they then shifted into a rather darker spot, and Roope left him and was doing something to the bundle, when a policeman darted across the road

and collared the two prisoners, and called upon me in the Quean's name to assist him, and I assisted in taking the prisoners—they were both perfectly sober.

Cross-examined by Rouse. I was on tne opposite side of the road when the robbery wan ommitted, about a dozen yards off; you and four other men were round the prosecutor—I should not know them, but I know you, because I saw you distinctly and took notice of you because you were the first person that spoke to note; I think you had a neck-scarf on, not a tie—I knew you in the dark 60 yards off because I had seen you before, and I had not seen the other men before—I noticed you because I was in fear of you—I did not want to get too close to you—I was not afraid of you when I was 60 yards off; I had a chance then.

Cross-examined by Roope. The robbery was 70 or 80 yards from the Euston Road—I said before the Magistrate "I saw some man was rifling the prosecutor's pocket"—I now say that it was you; I could see you under the lamp, but I was in the dark—I cannot say that you used any violence to the prosecutor, but you did to Franklin.

FREDERICK COLLINS (Policeman Y 718). On 7th June, about 11.45, I heard of this robbery, went to the spot, and hid under a wall two or three seconds, and saw Roope searching this bundle—Rouse had got the prosecutor up against the wall, his arms were down—I sprang across the road and caught them both by the backs of their coats—I have been 12 months in the force—I said "What are you doing with the man?"—he said "We are seeing him home"—Roope got his foot behind mine, but I kicked him away—he said he was not going with a boy—I said "You will see about that"—he found it was no use struggling and went quietly, but he was very violent at first—I asked the prosecutor what he had lost—he said in the prisoner's hearing "They have done me for a quid," that means a sovereign—I took the prisoners to the station, charged them, searched them, and found 4 1/2 d. on Roope and a pawn-ticket for a silk handkerchief, pawned at Davies's, in Drury Lane; I also found another silk handkerchief on him, and on Rouse a key and a knife—St. Pancras Road is nothing like 60 yards wide—this is a narrow part, where the offices are; I should say it is 25 or 80 yards wide.

Cross-examined by Rouse. I did not see the robbery—I did not see you hold the prosecutor's hands up; you were holding them down, and keeping him against the wall—I did not see you with the bundle at all—what the prosecutor said was "They have done me out of two quid"—he was drunk—I did not hear you say "I don't think the man has lost anything, as I have come part of the way from King's Cross with him," nor did I say "Well, you must know something about it"—I said "You will have to go to the station," and you said you would not go; you afterwards said if I let go of you you would go quietly—you did not say that you had no occasion to go as the man had lost nothing.

Cross-examined by Roope. You tried to throw me—when the prosecutor came to the station he was carrying the bundle—he sat down on a form—the inspector asked him what he had lost, and he said a sovereign—he did not say that he had lost two sovereigns or two guineas—I did not kick you as you were taken to the cells—if you have a bruise on your foot that is where I kicked you when you tried to throw me.

The Prisoners' Statements before the Magistrate. Roope says: "I was drunk. I had nothing to do with robbing the man." Rouse says: "I

came out of the Victoria public-house, saw a crowd and the prosecutor with a basket, and asked him, in fact he told me; he said he had come from Lancashire and wanted to go to Somers Town. He said, "Come with me.' I never hit the man."

Rouse in his defence stated that he came out of the Victoria public-house, saw a crowd, and met the prosecutor, who said that he had come from Lancashire, and was lost, and as he (Rouse) had worked in Lancashire he felt it his duty to assist him towards Somers Town, where he wished to go, and that he gave his bundle to some one in the crowd to carry, a mob followed, and the prosecutor stopped against a fence, and upon trying to induce him to come on he abused him, upon which he left him and walked on 150 paces, and then went back, and tried to induce him to come on, and he then said that he had lost 2l., and called on the policeman for help; he contended that if he had robbed the prosecutor he would not have remained in his company.

Roope in his defence stated that he got into the crowd after having something to drink, and was taken into custody, but he never saw Rouse before.

GUILTY of robbery without violence .ROOPE then PLEADED GUILTY ** to a previous conviction at Middlesex Sessions in August, 1881, in the name of George Newman . Rouse was stated to be the associate of thieves, and also of Roope.— Judgment respited.

The COMMON SERJEANT commended the conduct of Collins and Regan.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-682
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour; Corporal > whipping; Imprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

682. MICHAEL READY (35) and EDWARD BENNER (21) , Robbery with violence on Henry Daniels, and stealing from his person 2l. 1s., his money.

MR. SIMMONS Prosecuted.

HENRY DANIELS . I live at 3, Ann's Court, Brixton, and am a hand straw dealer—on 18th June I was a little the worse for drink at a public-house in Pentonville; when I came out I saw the prisoners, Ready knocked me down, and Benner got on top of me—Benner took my throat with his hand, while they picked my pockets—I felt a hand in my pocket—I had money in both pockets; I lost 2l. 1s.—the 2l. which was in my left pocket was not touched; it was loose.

Cross-examined by Ready. I don't think I swore before the Magistrate that I gave you some beer—I did pay for some beer in the George public-house, but not for you—there were three or four men there.

Cross-examined by Benner. I never saw you till you were on top of me—I was lying on the ground when the constable took you.

Re-examined. I saw them both together immediately before and immediately after the occurrence.

GEORGE HARRINGTON (Policeman G 273). On 18th June, about 10.30, I was on duty and saw Daniels come out of the George public-house, Pentonville Road, Rouse followed him and hit him with his fist on the shoulder, about ten yards from the public-house—Daniels turned partly round, and Ready seized him by the throat with both hands; Benner was close behind—he came out of the same public-house, and went under the cover of Ready's arms, and put his hands in Daniels's trousers pocket—Daniels twisted round, and Ready threw him down, knelt on his chest, and took him by the throat—I ran up and caught Benner's hand coming out of Daniels's pocket with a shilling's worth of coppers in it—Ready started to run—I saw Austin in plain clothes, and told him to stop him,

which he did—Ready's mother came to the station, and he said to her "Mother, they have got me, I am going to leave you. good-bye"—while Ready was running away he had an opportunity of throwing away the money—he ran for about 300 yards.

Cross-examined by Ready. You hit him with you right hand—I do not think I said "patted him" before the Magistrate.(The witnesses deposition stated "I saw Ready follow him out and pat him on the shoulder.")

JOSEPH AUSTIN (Policeman G 224). I was on duty, and saw Harrington with Benner in custody—he pointed out Ready to me, and I took him to the station—his mother came there, and he said "Mother, they have got me this time, I shall go away from you"—I did not see Ready throw away anything.

The Prisoners' Statements before the Magistrate. Ready says: "I did say that to my mother because I am an unfortunate man. I have just come home on license. I did not mean that I had done this robbery." Benner says: "I know nothing about it."

The prisoners repeated the same statements in their defence.

GUILTY . READY then PLEADED GUILTY ** to a conviction of felony at the Surrey Sessions in March, 1877, when he was sentenced to ten years' penal servitude.Eighteen Months' Hard Labour, and Twenty-five Strokes with the Cat. BENNER— Eighteen Months' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-683
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

683. FREDERICK LUKE (22) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of Augustus Gough, and stealing twelve forks, seven spoons, and 1l. 3s. 6d. in money, and afterwards breaking out of the same.Another Count for receiving.

MR. FERMINGER Prosecuted.

AUGUSTUS GOUGH . I keep the Devonshire Arms, Lancaster Street, Hyde Park—the prisoner was my potman about 18 months ago—on the 7th May, about 12.30, I looked up my house and went to bed about 1 o'clock, leaving it perfectly safe—next morning when I went into the bar parlour I found the gas burning, the window open and propped up by a poker, and saw cigars and papers strewed over the place, and two drawers broken open and the contents taken away, twelve forks, six spoons, and an iron box with about ten shillings' worth of threepenny pieces in it, and a bag with two shillings and sixpence in bronze, a five-shilling packet of bronze, and a bundle of papers—I found the box in the cellar broken open and empty—there was a ladder to the parlour window in the yard—this bag is mine—it had the two shillings and sixpence worth of coppers in it—this clock was found in the bag which was taken away at the same time—I also missed a cigar case, a bottle of whisky, a bottle of champagne, and some cigars.

Cross-examined. I have not seen you on the premises since you left—I had no character with you—you did not bear a dishonest character while with me.

WILLIAM SMITH (Police Sergeant X). On the 8th May about 8 a.m. I examined this house—a person had entered before the house was closed at night, by taking a square of glass out of the cellar door and unscrewing the box of the lock—he then passed through the cellar door to another door and took the lock out, and then passed into the back yard, where I found a ladder against the parlour window, which is over

14 feet from the ground, looking into the yard—he entered from that window to the bar-parlour, where a drawer had been broken open.

ALBERT HENRY PHEASANT . I am potman and billiard-marker at the Surrey Gardens Hotel, Manor Place, Walworth—on the 8th May about 5.45 a.m. I went into the George public-house, New Street, Kennington, saw the prisoner, and said "It is rather a strange thing for you to be out at this time in the morning"—he said "Oh, not at all; I have been travelling all night for a firm of wine and spirit merchants"—he offered me some cigars which he took from his pocket, and showed me a bottle of champagne and a bottle of spirits; also this horse-shoe clock (produced), and a case of cigars—he asked the barman to change some threepenny pieces for him, and the barman changed four of them—I remained there some time—the house opened at 5 or 5.30 a.m.—I informed the police.

Cross-examined. We were not together the night before—I had a drink with you on the morning of the 8th—I had not got the spoons and forks; that is a wicked lie—I did not come out of the George and promise to meet you next morning—I never saw you again after the Wednesday till you were apprehended.

WILLIAM THICK (Police Sergeant P). In consequence of what Pheasant told me I took the prisoner at the Surrey Gardens Tavern—I said "You will be charged with stealing some property from the Devonshire Arms, Paddington"—he said "I know nothing about it; the man who is going to give evidence against me is a returned convict"—I took him to Paddington Station, searched him, and found this canvas bag in his trousers pocket, which Mr. Gough identifies—the prisoner said "I have had that two years"—he made no reply to the charge—I received this clock from a man named John Prane at Tooting.

ALBERT HENRY PHEASANT (Re-examined). There is no truth in what the prisoner said to the constable—I was never convicted in my life.

JOHN PRANE . I am a carpenter, of 7, Ebenezer Terrace, Tooting—on May 11th I met the prisoner in a coffee-shop—he said that he had been left a public-house and a sum of money, and showed me some papers, and another part of the day he showed me this clock, and said that he wanted to go to London to get some money from his solicitor; he had spent all his money, and was going to pawn the clock—I said it is a pity, and he sold it to me for half-a-sovereign—I said "Go and get the money and come back and give it to me."

Cross-examined. We did not spend the money between us in drink—the half-sovereign was all I had, and I wanted it back.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "On May 6th I met the witness Pheasant, and made an appointment to meet him next morning at a quarter-past 5—I met him next morning at the Surrey Gardens."

ALBERT HENRY PHEASANT (Re-examined). That is not true—I made no appointment to meet him.

The prisoner in his defence stated that he was playing with Pheasant at the Surrey Gardens Arms on the day before, and agreed to meet him at 5.30 next morning, when he went and showed Pheasant the house, and waited till he came out, and offered him some cigars, and they shared a bottle of wine between them, and then went to Wimbledon, when Pheasant gave information to the constable.

ALBERT HENRY PHEASANT (Re-examined). I went to the George because I go there every morning before I go to work—I expressed

surprise at seeing the prisoner there, because I have known him 12 months, and have not known any good of him.

GUILTY*of receiving.— Fifteen Months' Hard Labour.

The COURT considered that Pheasant had behaved very well, and that his character was quite unblemished.

OLD COURT.—Wednesday, July 1st, 1885.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-684
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

684. JACOB HYAMS (26) , Robbery on Thomas Neesom and stealing from his person 4l. 15s., his money.

MR. MOYSEY Prosecuted; MR. FRITH Defended.

THOMAS NEESOM . I am a fret lead glazier, of 23, Little James Street—I am an honorary member of a rowing club; they have two races a year and I am entitled to go by their steamboat—on 18th May I was on Citizen J steamboat—any members of the club could go on board by buying a ticket for 18d.—two or three persons I knew were there—I saw James Perrin and George Daniels—I saw the prisoner on board when we were about Wandsworth—I was standing on the bridge while the race was going on, and the prisoner came up to me and demanded 2l. 10s., saying that I had bet with him—I said "I have made no bet with you, and shall pay you no money"—he caught hold of my legs and tried to pull me off the bridge, and one or two men jumped up and began shaking me, and saying "Why don't you give the man his money?"—I scrambled down by catching hold of the rail, and got down into the engine-room, followed by eight or nine men, who held me while the prisoner took 4l. 15s. from my pockets—the gold was loose in my waistcoat pocket, a sovereign and two half-sovereigns—I first saw the prisoner on board at Wandsworth, but had no transaction with him—I came up out of the engine-room and said something to the stoker, but did not see the prisoner any more—I am quite sure I had not betted with him, I only betted with men I knew.

Cross-examined. There were about 200 people on board, and I betted with several—I cannot give you any of their names—I did not enter them in a book or on a scrap of paper—I had a friend with me named Perry—I met him casually on the pier—he is not here—he was not before the Magistrate—when I made a bet I gave a ticket—that is a bookmaker's business—the cry of "Welsher" was not raised against me that I know of, and there was nobody on the boat who could say that I owed him a penny, but there were plenty of people with whom the prisoner had bets and never paid—I complained to the police I believe 10 days afterwards—there is a police-station in Hunter Street, 10 minutes' walk from little James Street; I did not go there—I did not give information till Easter Tuesday—I said before the Magistrate that a man named McCarthy held me while Hyams rifled my pockets—McCarthy called one witness, and notwithstanding my statement the Magistrate discharged him, but they have got him again, not for this, but for something similar.

Re-examined. I did not complain, because I did not know the prosecutor's name, and I could not afford the money to take the case up, but my friends have assisted me—when I made bets Perry wrote them down—the persons who I bet with I knew by sight at the Gaiety Club—I do

not know their names—I was excited and agitated when I was pulled down off the bridge by my legs—I had no purse; about 2l. 17s. was loose in my trousers pocket.

MELVILLE WHITE . I am a captain of the London Steamboat Company—on 18th May the boat was hired by the Gaiety Rowing Club, and I was master that day—I saw the prisoner on board—I swear that he was on the paddle-box during the race and after it was over—I was turning the vessel round, and several persons jumped up on the bridge, and a man who I believe was the prosecutor appealed to me for assistance—I cannot say whether the prisoner heard that—I did not see him again till the return after this affray—he was then sitting quietly on the paddle-box—he had some little girls with him—I did not see him at any time with the prosecutor.

Cross-examined. There was an immense amount of confusion and up-roar, which is the reason I could not recognise faces—I heard them say, "Throw the b—overboard"—I did not hear a cry of "Welsher"—as Neescm slipped down off the bridge and came under the bridge rail, some one on the bridge-board had got him by the hair of his head, and he slipped from their hold down into the engine-room, and what occurred afterwards I did not see.

HENRY MASON . I am an engine-driver—on 18th May I was on board this steamboat and saw the prisoner on board—when we were at Strand-on-the-Green I saw Neesom with a great many people round him—the prisoner was one of them, and Neesom said to him, "I have not had a bet with you and I will not pay"—a lot of men hustled him on the bridge and tried to hold him, but he slipped down and went down into the engine-room—they were not violent to him, they merely held him—the prisoner followed him down, and I went down after them and took the ladder away to prevent others coming down; but that did not stop them, nine or ten came down without the ladder and called him a b—, and a welsher, and said, "We want our money"—the prisoner was among them—Neesom was sitting on a locker, and my father, who was the engine-driver, could not move the levers to reverse the engines—I saw two little girls on board playing with the prisoner.

Cross-examined. I can swear that the prisoner touched Neesom on the bridge-board, and a lot of others were hustling him—it was a scene of great confusion—I heard them call out "Welsher" a great many times on deck, and in the engine-room an well—I picked a button up in the engine-room, belonging to his coat I believe.

THOMAS THOMPSON (Police Sergeant F). On 29th May about 7.30 I took the prisoner at Euston Station, and said, "You will be charged with being concerned with others in stealing 4l. 15s. from Thomas Neesom on board the Citizen J steamboat at Strand-on-the-Green, Chiswick; also with assaulting him"—he said, "I was on board the boat; I saw a scuffle, but I took no part in it"—the charge was read to him at Chiswick Station—he made no reply—I found no money on him.

Cross-examined. McCarthy, against whom Neesom gave positive evidence at the police-court, was discharged, and the prisoner was let out on 20l. bail.

MR. FRITH proposed to call witnesses to facts, but the Jury stated that it was not necessary.


22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-685
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour; Imprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

685. WILLIAM STEGMAN (22), WILLIAM GREEN (25), GEORGE WOOD (25), and ALFRED MOON (18) , Stealing 78 waistcoats, the goods of Edward Seasmark. Second Count, For receiving. MOON and STEGMAN PLEADED GUILTY .

MR. BROXHOLME Prosecuted; MR. POLEY Defended.

JONES (City Detective). On 1st June I followed Stegman and Moon—I saw Wood and Green outside the Peacock, Whitecross Street, standing by a pony and cart—Moon and Stegman came up and passed a few words with them and left them—I followed Moon and Stegman into Fore Street about 3.20 or 3.30—they sat down in Jewin Street watching a railway can which stood there—after a few minutes they got up and walked into Wells Street and placed themselves by the side of a truck with a parcel on it—Stegman sat on a doorstep in a corner by a hoarding—I placed myself in a court in view of both prisoners, Nettleton Court, I think, at the far end of Wells Street—a boy was sitting on some parcels by the side jof the truck—Moon sidled away from the parcel—at truck—the boy turned round—Moon sidled away from the parcel—at that moment Stegman got up from the doorstep and hurried towards where I was standing, about 100 yards off—the doorstep was about 150 yards from where the vehicle was, in another street—Green and Wood were in the cart—the truck was about 50 yards from me—to prevent Stegman seeing me I stepped back into a small court leading from Nettleton Court, and when I came to the front again the parcel and Moon had disappeared—I liiked round, lost all sight of Moon, but saw Stegman hurrying through Wells Street—I followed him into Fore Street, where I met Collins, another officers—we saw Stegman go to the cart where Wood and Green were riding—Stegman said something to them—they looked round, saw Collins and I hurrying towards the cart, and jumped out, Wood with the whip in his hand, and Wood turned into Milton Stegman all ran away, leaving the cart in the road, along turned into Milton when they got to Milton Street, Stegman and Wokod turned into Milton Street, and Green kept straight ahead—when I neared Wood, who was behind the others, he took the whip and put it in a threatening attitude—I passed him, still calling "Stop thief"—Green was stopped by a gentleman at the corner of Aldermanbury Posteru and given into the hands of another constable—I went to Milton Street, where I saw a crowd, and Stegman was standing looking on, apparently unconcerned—I caught hold of him and told him he would be charged with the other prisoners at the station—they were charged together with being concerned in stealing 78 waistcoats, value 20l., from a truck in Wells Street—they all said, "You have made a mistake, we know nothing about it"—the next day, 2nd June, I saw Moon in Guildhall Yard; he was taken in custody.

Cross-examined. It was withing a few minutes of half-past 3 when I first saw the box-cart and Wood and Green outside the Peacock on the pave-ment by the side of the cart—I was following the others, and saw them speak—I knew Green; I took notice of Wood too—I did not go into Whitecross Steet again—I next saw the cart in Jewin Street about 10 minutes or a quarter of an hour afterwards, with Wood and Green in it, driving slowly on away from where the robbery was committed—the street is not narrow, about 10 yards wide, with room for some three or four lines of traffic—Stegman overtook the cart; he was hurrying; he did not place anything in the cart—I do not know what Stegman had in

his pockets; he had nothing in his hand, he was carrying nothing—all he did was to go to the side of the cart and say something, and they immediately looked round—I am certain nothing passed—I was under the impression at the time that the parcel was in the cart; it was not.

Re-examined. I did not search the cart—after the robbery the cart was driving away from where the robbery had been committed, but it had been driven in the other direction and turned round—where I saw Stegman join the other men in Wells Street was some distance from the Peacock and near the place where the parcel was stolen.

WILLIAM COLLINS (City Detective). About 3.30 on 1st June I was with Jones—I first saw Green and Wood in Fore Street and going along Jewin Street in the direction of Aldersgate Street in the cart—about halfway along Jewin Street they turned and came back—that was away from where the robbery took place—Jones, who had been with me previously, joined me again, and we followed the prisoners into Fore Street—Stegman went to the Ride of the cart, which had passed me then and was going from Stegman; Stegman went up quickly to the cart and appeared to speak to them—they at once looked round and saw Jones and me following—Green, who was driving, tried to hurry the pony through the traffic; finding he could not they jumped out one on each side—Jones followed Green—Wood turned back in the direction of Cripplegate Buildings; finding I was about to meet him he turned and ran into Milton Street, where he was followed by another officer and taken in custody—they were all taken and charged—I went back to the cart and found this bag in it—it is commonly used by parcel-stealing people, and is called a swag bag—the property was found afterwards—Stegman gave his address, 12, Windsor Street, which was correct.

Cross-examined. There was no swag in the bag—I have seen several like it—I have no doubt it is a bag used for other things, but more for that—I do not think it is used for carrying air-balloons, I should not like to swear ot is not—I said before the Magistrate it was half-past 4 when I first saw Wood and Green; I have corrected that to-day—I could not have noticed it at the police-court when my deposition was read to me and I signed it—I was not with Jones when I first saw those two—I did not watch him more than five minutes before they were in custody; Jones had been watching them previously; I had temporarily lost Jones when he first saw them—it was about 3.40 when I saw them, that was in Fore Street—I did not see them in front of the Peacock—I saw them turn and come back—they had turned round from the direction of the robbery, and were coming back in the direction of where they had been previously when I first saw them going into Jewin Street from Fore Street—when Stegman came out of Wells Street, Jones was following him, and they were all going in one direction down Fore Street towards Moorgate Street, away from the scene of the robbery—I saw no signal given, but I should think it likely a signal was given which made them turu round—the place where the robbery was committed was under Jones's notice and attention; he does not suggest that there was any signal, and I saw none—it was 150 yards or more from where the robbery took place to where he joined them—there was some traffic between where the robbery took place and the trap, so that they could not get away—I did not see, Jones could tell that—Molone arrested Wood—Stegman did not get in the trap, he made off, when he appeared

to have signalled to the other two, in the direction of Milton Street—I could not hear his words, but words appeared to pass between them—there was much traffic in Fore Street—Green beat the pony to try to hurry off.

Re-examined. The charge was taken before 4 o'clock—I was with Jones, who said it was 3.30, I did not notice I had said 4.30.

RICHARD TALBOT . I am a carman to Carter, Paterson, and Co., and live at 21, Horatio Street, Hackney Road—on 1st June I saw Wood and Green in Broad Street at 3.15, Wood in a pony cart, and Green standing opposite to it outside Messrs (Re-examined.) By land and Co's.—they took the cart outside the Peacock in Lower Whitecross Street, Green got out and came back into Wood Street again—Green went down Wood Street and looked in a van which was standing outside Ryland's and then went back again in the Cart, Wood was there—then, I believe, the carman came out and drove away—I saw Collins standing at the corner of Jewin Street—I made a communication to him, and while doing so I saw Wood and Green in the cart going towards and up Jewin Street in the direction of Wells Street and Aldersgate Street—before a minute they turned back and came down along Jewin Street into Fore Street again, as soon as they saw Jones and Collins after them they got out of the cart and ran—I saw Stegman on that afternoon come from the direction of the Midland Railway Station and cross in Lower Whitecross Street to where the cart stood and speak to Green and Wood, I could not hear what was said—I had never seen him before.

Cross-examined. He came across from the opposite side to the Peacock—it was about 3 o'clock when I first saw Green and Wood, and it was 20 minutes past 3 when I called Collins's attention to them—I don't think it had turned the half-hour—after Stegman spoke to them they tried to drive from Jewin Street into Wood Street, and then looked round, saw Jones and Collins after them, and jumped down—Stegman was not in the cart—I did not see him say anything to them, nor was he in their company at that time, ail I saw of him was outside the Peacock—I went to the police-station and was asked to give evidence—I was not taken to identify Wood or Green, but was simply told they were Wood and Green.

Re-examined. I had seen them several times before together—the street was very crowded with traffic—I stood with my van and saw them get out of the cart and run.

By the JURY. I have seen Wood and Green together, and likewise Stegman for a few months.

JOHN HALL . I am a porter to Mr. Edwin Seamark, the prosecutor, a white waistcoat maker—I live at 112, East Street, Stepney—on this afternoon about 3.30 I was in Wells Street with a truck in which were three parcels—I pulled up at 2, Wells Street and took two of the parcels upstairs, leaving one containing three dozen and a half white and fancy waistcoats—I saw Moon and Stegman that day, but not Wood and Green—when I came out about two or three minutes afterwards, or not so long, the parcel was gone.

EDWIN SEAMARK . These waistcoats are mine, and formed part of a parcel of 78 which was sent out that afternoon, value about 20l., on a truck.

ROBERT SAGAR (City Detective). On 4th June about 7 o'clock I went into Petticoat Lane with the other officers and made certain inquiries, in

consequence of which I went to No. 3, Cutler Street, a shop kept by Mr. Michael Aarons, a clothier—I spoke to him, and he handed me this parcel containing 37 vests.

THOMAS MALONEY (City Policeman 142). On 1st June about 3.30 I saw Wood running in Fore Street; I followed him—he turned into Milton Street; finding he could not get out he ran into a warehouse—I followed him in and found him hid behind the door—I said "What are you doing here?"—he said "Nothing"—I took him to the station.

Cross-examined. It was rather after 3.30 than before—he was crouched behind the door of 17, Milton Street—the door opens inside and there is a space behind it, the door was open—he was not knocking at it, I saw him run up the steps, he was hid from me till I opened the door; it was the entrance door to the warehouse—I did not charge him with anything; I merely heard the cry of "Stop thief" and saw him running, several persons followed me when I ran after him.

Re-examined. I saw Jones and Collins running after a cart and the 12 persons jump out—the warehouse is occupied by several people—I do not think Wood is employed there; I did not inquire—I first saw the prisoner in the cart outside the Peacock, and next in Jewin Street, close by Wells Street, going away from the place towards Moorgate Street—I did not see them turn round, they must have turned before I saw them the second time.

By MR. BROXHOLME. I arrested Green at the end of Aldermanbury Postern at 12 minutes to 4—I charged him at the station five minutes after the robbery—he said he knew nothing about it.

Green in his statement before the Magistrate said that he was with his pony and cart and heard cries of "Stop thief;" that he got out of his cart to speak to a gentleman, and while doing so a constable came and took him to the station, where he was charged with loitering; that a boy came afterwards and said he had lost a parcel, and that he was then charged with being concerned in it; that Moon said he (Green) was innocent, and that the only evidence against him was that Stegman had spoken to him.

Witnesses for the Defence.

WILLIAM STEGMAN (The prisoner). I have pleaded guilty to committing this robbery, and have heard the evidence given. I did not speak to Wood and Green, nor signal to them. They were not acting with me in this robbery; I said so when taken to the station. When we were first taken there the charge was loitering about the City; after about 20 minutes a chap came and said he had lost a parcel, and the inspector whispered "Charge them all with being concerned with this parcel." I was walking down Milton Street when the cry of "Stop thief" was raised.

Cross-examined. I never saw them that or any other day.

ALFRED MOON (The prisoner). These two men were not engaged in any robbery with me; I don't know them.

Cross-examined. I did not see them at all that day, nor speak to them.

GUILTY . Green and Wood then PLEADED GUILTY to previous convictions; Green at this Court in February, 1876, in the name of William Smith , and Wood at the Mansion House in 1874, in the name of Henry Johnson STEGMAN— Two Years' Hard Labour. GREEN ** and W00D **— Six Year's Penal Servitude each. MOON— Eighteen Months' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-686
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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686. HENRY WILSON (24) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of Walter Holman, and stealing a bottle of wine, his property.

MR. POLEY Prosecuted.

WALTER HOLMAN . I keep the Northumberland Arms, King's Cross Road—on June 10, about 3.30 a.m., my wife awoke me and I heard a noise—I got up, looked over the landing-rail of the staircase, and saw the prisoner and another man cutting a hole through the panel leading to the bar parlour—I sang out—they had the front door a little way open, and just as I got to the bottom of the stairs they ran out; the prisoner was the last—he had on the same coat—I saw a policeman in pursuit; he saw me in my night-shirt—they ran west, towards Gray's Inn Road, that is away from the Angel—I went back and examined the premises—an entry had been made by forcing an iron grating, which was run in with lead to the paving stones, ana obtaining access to the cellar, and the key of the cellar door being on the other side they cut a hole through and unlocked the door—there was a case of wine there, and they opened a bottle of it and drank it—I found the bottle and glass there.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. When you were brought back I said "That is one of them for certain"—I did not see your face; I identified you by your coat—I was within reach of you, but could not get hold of your collar—I could see both men's coats, one was black and the other was faded and had rose seams at the back—it was perfectly daylight.

JOHN OLLIVER (Policeman G 72). I was on duty in King's Cross Road between 3.30 and 4 a.m., it was as light as it is now—Holman, who was standing at his door, called me, and pointed to two men running up Wicklow Street, both in dark clothes and black hats—I did not see their faces—I followed them into Gray's Inn Road, where I lost sight of them, and gave directions to another constable, and the prisoner was brought to Mr. Holman's house shortly afterwards.

By the COURT. I lost sight of them about 3.45 at the bottom of Pentonville Road going towards King's Cross.

ROBERT TYSON (Policeman G 83). On 10th June, between 3.30 and 4 a.m., I was on duty near King's Cross, Oliver spoke to me, in consequence of which I took the prisoner—he was going up Pentonville Road from King's Cross to the Angel—I stopped him, and asked him where he came from—he said "Straight along the road"—I said "Anywhere else?"—he said "No"—I said "What do you out at this time of morning?"—he said "I had not money enough to pay my lodging"—I said "Where have you been all night?"—he said "It is no business of yours"—I took him back to the prosecutor's house, who identified him by his coat—he had a dark green coat on with raised seams—he was charged at the station, and said that he knew nothing about it—I found on him three pawn tickets, a pocket-knife, 1 3/2d., a small box-key, comb, handkerchief, and two or three studs—he was coming from the direction which he had run towards.

Cross-examined. You had run back towards the house again—I saw you 300 or 400 yards from the house, one road separated it—you were loitering as if you were in no hurry, and when you passed me you looked very suspiciously at me—you were not walking in the direction of the house which was robbed, but that road would lead back to the house—

you could walk from where I took you to the bottom of Pentonville Road in five minutes.

Re-examined. Pentonville Eoad rune to the Angel, and the Northumberland Arms is at the corner of Weston Street—Pentonville Eoad and King's Cross Eoad join there—he was going towards the Angel—he could get to the Northumberland Arms by going down Weston Street, but he would have to cut across.

MARY WHEELER . I am the prosecutor's barmaid—on 9th June, between 11.30 and 11.45, I saw the prisoner and another man in one of the bars, but I did not serve them—the prisoner had on a coat very much like what he is wearing now, either black or dark green—he was a stranger there.

Cross-examined. My attention was drawn to you by your looking very suspiciously round when we went into the parlour where the door was always opening and shutting—I did not say before the Magistrate that I identified you by your wearing a green coat.

WALTER SERLE . I am a pipe fitter, of 44, Hampton Street, St. Pancras—on 10th June, about 1.15 a.m., I was passing the Northumberland Arms, and saw a man standing close to the lamp-post within the circle of light—as I passed he made a sign, and the prisoner came from the side of the house where the iron grating is, which was pulled up, and whipped something under his coat, the same coat as he has on now, dark green with raised seams—I had a good look at him; the light was in his face, and I identified him—my attention was called to him by the movement of his hands, which made me falter, and I thought he was going to strike me—I passed on, and left him standing there.

Cross-examined. I believe the gas had been turned down, but I could see that it was a coloured coat; I could see the seams—I was face to face with you.

By the COURT. It was not such a brilliant light as usual, but they were both within arm's length of me, and as I passed they seemed quite paralysed—I did not speak to them.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate."I can only say I know nothing whatever about it."

Prisoner's Defence. I could not pay for my lodging and was walking the streets till 5 o'clock, when I was going to the Central Meat Market to get work. The constable stopped me. I did not know what it was for. I went back with him. I am entirely innocent.

GUILTY.— Judgment respited.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-687
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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687. JOHN WILLIAMS (62) , Feloniously uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. LLOYD Prosecuted.

MARTHA CUTBUSH . My husband keeps a general shop at Chadwell Heath, Barking—on May 21st, about 3 p.m., I served the prisoner with a pennyworth of cheese—he gave me a shilling—I gave him 11d. change and he left—I then showed it to my husband, and in consequence of what he said I sent for a constable—I followed my husband out and saw the prisoner go into Lee's shop, two or three minutes' walk off, and come

out—he passed me and I said, "You are wanted up the road beyond"—he ran half way up the road and I followed him—he got over a hedge, went across a field, and I saw no more of him till a policeman brought him back about 5 p.m., when I said, "You gave me a bad shilling"—he said, "I am not the man"—I saw my husband give the coin to the constable—this is it (produced).

Cross-examined. You were brought back about an hour and a half afterwards.

ELIZABETH LEE . My father keeps a general shop at Chadwell Heath—on 21st May about 3.30. my mother was in the shop and I was looking through a glass door and saw the prisoner come in—he asked my mother for a pennyworth of bread—she said that she could not cut it and he had a pennyworth of biscuits, and put down a coin—I could not see what it was, but I saw my mother show Mr. Cutbush this shilling (produced) between 4 and 5 p.m.—I went to Uford Police-station next day and identified the prisoner.

ELIZA LEE . My husband keeps a general shop at Chadwell Heath—on 2lst May the prisoner came in for a pennyworth of bread—I said that we did not cut it, and he said he would have a pennyworth of biscuits, and laid down this shilling (produced)—I gave him a sixpence and fivepence change and he left—a few minutes afterwards Mr. Cutbush came in and said something to me—I showed him this shilling—he examined it with me and returned it to me—I had no other shilling in the till at the time—I afterwards gave it to the constable.

Cross-examined. When you were brought back I said to my husband that I did not think you were the man, but when I saw you at the station next morning with my daughter I was certain you were the man—I did not say that you had whiskers, I said I thought you had—I am certain you are the man.

FREDERICK CANT (Policeman K 327). On 21st May about 3 p.m I was on Chadwell Heath, and in consequence of a description I searched for the prisoner and met him two and a half miles from there at Overy Hatch—I was in plain clothes, but he turned back and went through a gate-way—I was with another constable in plain clothes—we went round and met him—I stopped him and said, "Have you any money about you?"—he said, "Yes," and pulled out a shilling, a sixpence, and six pence all good—I said, "Have you any more?" and he said, "No"—I said, "I shall take you in custody on a charge of passing bad money"—he said, "I don't know what you are talking about"—I took him to Mrs. Lee's shop, who said, "I cannot swear to him;" but her daughter identified him—I then took him to Mrs. Cutbush, who said, "That is the man who came into the shop and asked for a pennyworth of cheese and laid down a shilling and I gave him 11d. change"—the prisoner said, "You have made a mistake"—I searched him at the station, and found this half of a biscuit and this tissue paper (produced).

ELIZABETH LEE (Re-examined). This half biscuit is of exactly the same kind as those sold to the prisoner.

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . I am employed by the Mint authorities—these coins are bad and from different moulds—this tissue paper is the kind used for wrapping counterfeit coin in, but there are no marks on it.

Prisoner's Defence. The lady says I am the man that had the biscuits,

and I say I am not; and the girl swears to me through a glass door, curtains and all.

GUILTY . He was further charged with a conviction at this Court, in the name of Joseph Johnson , in April, 1873, of feloniously possessing counterfeit coin, having then been previously convicted of a like offence.

HENRY WARD . I am principal warder of H.M. Prison, Wandaworth—I was present here on 7th April, 1873, when the prisoner was convicted of the possession of counterfeit coin after a previous conviction of felony—I produce the certificate—he was under my observation afterwards, not in relation to that charge but to subsequent charges—I identify him as the man who was tried in 1873, and who was under my observation subsequently—I produce his photograph.

The Prisoner. I am not the man.

By the JURY He was charged at Hammersmith with uttering counterfeit coin, and remanded several times—he was not in my custody when the photograph was taken; that has been taken in the convict prison since— he was sentenced to five years' penal servitude and three years' police supervision.

ROBERTS (Prison Warder). This photograph was taken at Pentonville—they are generally taken about a month before a prisoner comes out.

CHARLES RUNDLE I am warder of Newgate—I had the prisoner in my charge som eyears ago, I dare say 10 or 12, and he was sentenced to penal servitude for uttering counterfeit coin—I recollect his picking oakum very well. GUILTY .**— Six Years' Penal Servitude.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-688
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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688. WILLIAM ROBINS (30) , Stealing a purse, two foreign coins, a ring, and 4s. from Julien Sevrin.

MR. CULPEPER Prosecuted.

JULIEN SEVRIN (Interpreted). I reside at West Ham—on 5th June, 1885, about 6.30, I saw the prisoner next to the station—he made a sign as if he wanted to conduct me and wanted something to drink—I made him a sign that I wanted to go to the station; he made a sign that he wanted to conduct me there—I went into several public-houses, thinking they could show me where I wanted to go—the prisoner followed me constantly; I did not want to have anything to do with him—when I came out of the second public-house the prisoner made a half-turn round me and put his hand suddenly into my left coat pocket, in which was my purse containing two 20-franc gold French pieces and two English florins, and a ring worth 10s., and a small quantity of bronze—I caught his hand coming out of my pocket, but he ran away with the purse in his hand—I have no doubt at all about him—all at once two police officers came to my assistance and arrested him.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I do not know the name of the station I first saw you at, nor that of the docks I wanted to go to—I am staying there now—I went into two public-houses with you to ask the way—in the first I paid for a glass for you—I did not take anything, and in the second I paid twopence for the drink you had there—before I started that morning I had something to eat there—I went into no public-house before I met you—nobody followed me out of the public-house—there was nobody there but you—you had no business with me—I did not know you—I always made signs to tell you to go away—I did not want

you—I did not say at the station that if you would give my money up I would not lock you up.

Re-examined. I only had one glass of beer—I had nothing to drink before that, and nothing at the station—the prisoner first came and wanted to take a parcel for me, and I told him I did not understand English—I only took one ticket for myself at the station.

FRELDEEICK DICKER (Detective Sergeant). I live at Plaistow—at 7.45 p.m. on 5th June I was in Lilliput Road, near the tidal basin railway station, and saw the prisoner and Sevrin—the prosecutor handed a piece of paper to a man passing by—the man pointed in the direction of the docks—the prisoner said "Yes, that is right, come along"—they went some little distance down the road to the corner of Frederick's Road, where the prisoner said "This way"—they went down Frederick's Road—Sevrin went into several shops, and showed the same piece of paper—the shopkeepers came out and directed him—the prisoner went in with him on each occasion—the prosecutor would go towards the docks, but the prisoner would catch hold of him and take him in the contrary direction—they went towards the station—Sevrin kept pushing the prisoner, and making motions with his hand to go away—they went to the railway station, where Sevrin showed the paper to some people—after remaining there a few minutes they went to the public-house opposite—Sevrin again showed the piece of paper—they came out and went to the station again, to the booking office, where Sevrin laid down the money, and the prisoner said "Two," and showed the piece of paper to the clerk—the train came in, but the prisoner prevented Sevrin going to it, saying it was nearer to walk—they went to the Connaught Hotel—I went in too—the prisoner asked for a glass of ale—Sevrin paid—they came out and went to the dock-gates, spoke to the constable at the gates, and returned to the hotel, had two glasses of ale, and went out—before I followed out I heard cries—I went out and saw the prisoner with his Land apparently round Sevrin's waist—the prisoner immediately ran away some distance, and was leaping a fence at the bottom of the road when I caught hold of his leg and threw him down, saying, "I am a police officer"—he said "I will surrender"—I took him to the station—when charged he said "He is only a foreigner; he don't know what he has lost"—I searched the ditch; it is a large tidal ditch, 6 or 8 yards wide, with several feet of water; it runs parallel to the fence about 18 yards off—just as the prisoner was making the jump I saw him throw something away—it went in the direction of the water—there is high grass on both sides of the ditch—the moment it was daylight I searched—I could not find anything—the ditch is never empty.

Cross-examined. The Custom House Station is immediately in connection with the Albert Docks—the Connaught Hotel is three-quarters of a mile from the station—Sevrin paid for two tickets; one was given back to the clerk and the money given back to Sevrin—he wanted to go by an up train—I did not see the water in the ditch, splash—it was out of my sight—you lifted your arm up before I got to the stile, which is 8 yards from the ditch—I was 6 yards from the stile—it was 10.30, but not very dark—there were electric lights lights there—I saw you lift your arm up but not what was thrown—the prosecutor entered two public-houses, including the Connaught, and went into several shops—when you returned from the Connaught only I and the other constable were

following you—I went into the Connaught—I saw the purse in Sevrin's hand there—the barman served us—the barman did not take the purse—two men were sitting there in the same compartment—neither of those took the purse, because after you came out he had it in his hand.

Re-examined. He was half over the fence when I caught him.

PAUL HALLMARK (Detective Officer). I was with Dicker, and followed Sevrin and the prisoner close to the tidal basin, and from there to the Custom House Hotel—I have heard Dicker's evidence and confirm it—I went inside the Connaught and saw the prisoner and Sevrin drinking together—when I was coming out I heard Sevrin shout out, but could not understand what he said—he appeared to have his arms round the prosecutor from the back—the prisoner started to run away, followed by Dicker and myself—I saw his hand up as if he was throwing something towards the field, where there is a large tidal ditch—it was very dark, with the electric light behind us—I jumped over the fence and laid hold of him—he was on one side the fence and Dicker on the other—Dicker had hold of him by the leg—I took him back to the Connaught—I searched the ditch and about the banks but found nothing—it is a muddy tidal ditch.

Cross-examined. I first saw you about 7.45 between the tidal basin and the Custom House, near the tidal basin—I only entered two public-houses—you were walking towards the Albert Docks, about three-quarters of a mile from where I first saw you.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I am innocent of the charge; I know nothing of the purse or money."

The prisoner in his defence stated that two men followed the prosecutor out of the public-house and suddenly left him and ran, and that the detective knowing him had taken him.

F. DICKER (Re-examined). I had never seen the prisoner before.

P. HALLMARK (Re-examined.) I had never seen the prisoner before.

GUILTY . He then PLEADED GUILTY ** to a previous conviction of felony at this Court in March, 1881.— Six Years' Penal Servitude.

Before Mr. Justice Day.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-689
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceMiscellaneous > sureties

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689. JOHN WILLIAM DIGGINS (16) Pleaded Guilty to feloniously setting fire to the dwelling-house of William Herbert Medcalf on 17th April, Frederick Hill being therein. He also PLEADED GUILTY to four other indictments for like offences on 18th April, 21st April, 3rd May, and 16th May.—Recommended to mercy by the prosecution.— His uncle entered into recognisances for his appearance when called upon.


Before Mr. Justice Day.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-690
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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690. BRIDGET MURPHY (34) was indicted for, and charged on the Coroner's Inquisition with, the manslaughter of Margaret Theresa Murphy.


LOUISA BACON . I am the wife of James Bacon, a labourer, of 2, Oliver's Court, Deptford—the prisoner lived with her husband and children in a house opposite us for about 18 months—I remember the birth of this

little child, I was there when it was born, and I frequently saw it up to the time of its death—the prisoner took care of it, but the fortnight this happened she was not there; her little boy, six years old, took care of it then, he used to nurse it—the prisoner was not at home at all for the last fortnight, she came in and out—the child was very badly clothed, only a very dirty bedgown—I fed it several times from my own breast—on Friday, 1st May, I saw the prisoner; she went out about 2 o'clock, leaving the baby with the little boy; I saw it about 3 o'clock in the boy's arms, he was sitting down at the door feeding it with cold sop, and I took it inside and gave it my breast two or three times—the sop must have been bread and water—I did not see any milk in it—the baby had been crying—I took charge of it till a quarter to 1 o'clock, when I went to meet the prisoner—I took the child with me wrapped under my shawl—I met the prisoner coming towards home, she was the worse for drink—I said "Oh, Mrs. Murphy, the baby has been crying"—she said "I can't help it"—I gave her the baby; she came down home with me and sat down at the foot of the stairs with the baby and I left her—I did not see the baby again till it was dead—I looked at it; one side of the face was all black—my father sent for a constable—the prisoner had two rooms, she used both—her husband does work at the docks—he was away at work at this time; he went to work about 5, and came back about 6 o'clock at night—the prisoner was drunk every day during the week preceding the child's death—there was no fire in the grate the whole week; I was in and out the place—I have not seen very much sop in the place—the little boy has come over and asked me for some for the baby, and I gave it what I had—I saw the prisoner's husband on the Friday night, he came home about 11 o'clock—they had two other children besides this baby, one four and the other six.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I know there was no fire in your room on the Friday night, for you asked me to make some food for the baby—your husband asked me to take the baby, and then said "Now you have got it you may keep it"—he did not give me a farthing; he brought some beer to my place, and I and my father and mother drank it—you were not there—you have brought your baby over to my place to feed it with a very, dirty spoon, and then you were half drunk.

WILLIAM WELCH . I live at 2, Oliver's Court, Deptford, and am a watchmaker—I knew this baby—on the afternoon of 1st May my daughter had charge of it; she attended to it from time to time—all it had on was a dirty bedgown—next morning, about a quarter to 11 o'clock, the little boy brought it over, it was then dead—I saw it from time to time before that Friday—generally the prisoner used to take it out with her from public-house to public-house—I have seen cold sop brought in by the boy to be warmed by my daughter—the prisoner was very drunk week after week.

Cross-examined. I saw you drunk every day and night that week—I have been in your place scores of times; you were drunk when the corpse was taken away, you could hardly stand.

LOUISA WELCH . I am the wife of the last witness—I was present at the birth of this child, it was nine weeks old when it died; it was a nice healthy child when born—the prisoner's mother first took charge of it, and afterwards the little boy, between six and seven—the week before it died I used to see the baby with the little boy on and off—the prisoner

was intoxicated every day that week—cold sop used to be left for it, they had not a fire for a week—the sop was bread with a drop of water, I saw it in a tin can in the oven the morning of its death and the day previous—I saw the prisoner on the Saturday morning at 2 o'clock at the foot of the stain intoxicated, she then had the baby in her arms; it had on a dirty roller and a bedgown, nothing else—I said to the prisoner "Why don't you go upstairs?"—she said "My husband will not let me in, let me be where I am"—I left her there and saw no more of her.

Cross-examined. I did not say when you were confined that you would not rear the baby—you said you could not suckle it—it was a nice child—you have three children.

MARY JANE WOOD . I live at Deptford, my husband is a lighterman—I saw the baby in its brother's arms a few days previous to its death, he was sitting with it on a door step in Butcher Row—I saw the prisoner with the baby in her arms on Saturday morning, 2nd May, about half-past 6, wrapped up in the mother's shawl, I could not see whether it was alive or dead, I only saw the nightgown hanging down—the prisoner was a little under the influence of drink, she staggered very much.

Prisoner. The whole lot of them are doiug this to get 3s. 6d. a day; they would tell a lie for a pint of beer.

THOMAS EAST (Policeman R 416). About 11 o'clock on Saturday morning, 2nd May, I saw the prisoner in Flagon Row—from what I had heard I said to her "Do you know your child is dead?"—she said "Yes, I can tell you what caused its death; my husband threw a pail of soapsuds over me and the child on the Thursday, and that was the cause of its death"—she made a rambling statement—she said she took the child out at a quarter to 5 that morning for fear of her husband knocking her about, that she walked the streets till a quarter to 6, and then went in and put the child in the bed with the two other children; she went out again and returned about half-past 7 and found the child dead; she then went out again, and had not returned home at the time I saw her—she was under the influence of drink; I know her well—I have seen her under the influence of drink before.

HENRY WOODING (Policeman R 91). I am Coroner's officer—on the afternoon of 2nd May, about 2 o'clock, I went to 2, Oliver's Court—I found the prisoner there drunk—I asked her when she last saw the child alive—she said half-past 6 that morning, she put it to bed with the other two boys, aged four and six; she went out again, returned at half-past 7, and the elder boy, Timmy, told her the child was dead—I asked her what she did when she found the child was dead—she said "Nothing, I only went out to borrow a sheet to hold a wake"—I saw the baby dead, lying on a pillow on two chairs in the prisoner's room downstairs; it was in a very dirty condition, and also the place—I at once conveyed the body to the mortuary, where the surgeon saw it; it had on a nightgown and a small bandage—next day, Sunday, I saw the prisoner again, she appeared more sober then—she said "I had too much drink last Friday night, I sat in the chair all night with the child; at 5 o'clock I was dry; I went out to get some drink at the Noah's Ark; I saw some one in there I did not wish to see, and I went to the White Swan; at half-past 6 I returned and put the child in bed with Timmy and the other boy and went out, and I know no more till the policeman told me my child was dead in Flagon Row, which surprised me"—I have known the prisoner

some time—previous to this Friday I had seen her about at public-houses drinking and drunk, but not during that week—I was present at the Inquest—the prisoner was called as the first witness—I heard her give her evidence; it was read over to her, and I saw her sign it. (This was read, and in substance was a repetition of for statement to the witness.)

THOMAS MOYES JOHNSTON . I am a Bachelor of Medicine, and practise in High Street, Deptford—on Saturday morning, 2nd May, about 11, I went to 2, Oliver's Court, and there saw the dead body of a baby—there were no marks of violence upon it, it appeared to be rather emaciated, and scantily clothed—I went to the police-station and saw the prisoner there; she was partially intoxicated—she told me the child was dead—I afterwards made a post-mortem examination—the cause of death was congestion of the lungs, brought on by exposure, and improper clothing, and improper feeding, irregular feeding—a child of that age would require to be warmly clad and properly attended to—I did not examine the prisoner to see whether she had milk; I was told that the child was brought up by spoon—oatmeal would not be proper food for a child shortly after birth; Borne warm milk with water would be proper, not cold bread and water—the organs were healthy, with the exception of the lungs—there was a little partially digested food in the stomach.

Witness for the Defence.

NORAH FITZGIBBON . I am the prisoner's mother—she fed the baby on the best of milk from the time it was born till the last week and three days—I never saw her feed it with cold bread and water—the witness was never in her place; there was no acquaintance with the Welches—I always saw her clean her baby every morning—I never saw her take it in the streets with only a nightgown on—she has been a true good mother to the lot of them, and a good wife, and worked hard.

Prisoner's Defence. I think it is very hard that I should be convicted by a bad family that is well known in this Court—Mrs. Welch has been here for pawning stolen property.

GUILTY .— Nine Months' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-691
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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691. HENRY CRANHAM (38) , Unlawfully knowing and abusing Mary Jane Morris, a girl under the age of 13.

MR. COOKE Prosecuted.

GUILTY .— Eighteen Months' Hard Labour.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-692
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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692. DANIEL TRANTER (20) , Breaking and entering the shop of Luigi Conceprio and stealing ham, chocolate, and other articles, his property.

MR. RAVEN Prosecuted.

CARLO GIARDELLI (Interpreted). I am manager of a refreshment-room in Greenwich Park—I left it closed and safe at 7 p.m. on April 7, and found it broken open at 8.30 a.m.—I missed a box of chocolate drops and some ham and eggs—all were safe when I left—the door was fastened with two locks; there are no windows.

WILLIAM ROBINSON (Police Inspector R). I went to this refreshment-house on 9th April at 10 a.m.—an entry had apparently been effected by climbing over the outer door into the porch, breaking a padlock off the inner door, and forcing the lock with some instrument between the two

doors—the outer door is about six feet high, and covered with spikes at the top, and there is four feet between that and the porch—I saw some blood in the porch on the stones—I searched the park and found a quantity of chocolate, in two boxes, concealed in a leaf-pit, about six inchces under the leaves, and 800 yards from the shop—I gave directions to Drew and Bell.

JAMES DREW (Policeman R 75). On 10th April, after seeing Robinson, I went with Bell to tins leaf-pit at 9 a.m., having been there the day before—we watched from a small place close by, and at a few minutes before 2 o'clock saw the prisoner and two others, Evans and Pollard, who were taken in custody, come down the hollow and look round—Evans went into the leaf-pit and Pollard kept observation outside—it is a natural hole, where they put leaves—Evans came up and Pollard went down and joined this prisoner, who was down there all the time—I was 50 yards away—after they came out the constable and I went into the pit and found the two boxes left, but the chocolate was taken, except about a dozen drops—Bell followed the men, and as they knew me well I kept out of sight—I did not see the prisoner till he was in custody, but I knew where he lived—I saw him run into his house, 22, Tyler Street, on the 11th, where he lives with his wife—the door was ajar, and I pushed in, but his mother would not allow me to search the house for 20 minutes, and then he was not there—on Sunday, 12th April, I went to 7, Queen Street, East Greenwich, where the three prisoners had run the previous day, when they were chased by Bell, and in a closet across the yard I could see some chocolate drops through a hole—I broke up the board and found a number of them—a man named Kitchener lives at 22, Tyler Street—I had no difficulty in recognising the prisoner; I have known him a considerable time, but he was away, and I heard he was with the militia—Pollard and Evans were tried here in April for this robbery, and convicted of receiving. (See page 58.)

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I said before the Magistrate, "I saw all three fill their pockets out of the two boxes, which they again covered with leaves"—that is quite true—it is not a pit, it is a natural hollow which goes down slanting, and in some places a cart can go down for the leaves—the ground sloped towards me.

Re-examined. It is about 6 feet deep when the leaves are out—we went in a little brick building which commands a view of that part of the pit where the boxes were concealed—the leaves were in the centre of the pit and the boxes were placed rather high where the leaves were dry, because in some places the leaves were very much decayed.

EDWARD BELL (Policeman R 134). I was with Drew in this small brick building in Greenwich Park—I have heard his evidence; it is correct—I followed the prisoner and the two men who have been convicted—they stood by a seat on the opposite side of the hill, and as soon as they saw me they began to run—I followed them a good quarter of a mile blowing my whistle, and down Queen Street to a back turning, where I lost them—I was in plain clothes.

Cross-examined. I did not see you filling your pockets because I had to look through a small hole.

WILLIAM KITSON . I am a labourer of 7, Queen Street, East Greenwich—on 10th April about 2.30 I was with a boy named Donelly on the foreshore, East Greenwich—Evans spoke to me as he ran down the shore

with Pollard and the prisoner—he asked Mr. Webb, who was on the shore, to lend them his boat to go over the water, which he did; and they asked me and Donelly to row them over, and we did so—while we were in the boat Evans told me that he should be sent up above, and that an old Jew ran after them blowing his whistle enough to blow the world down—they pulled the boat ashore and jumped out, and I rowed it back again, and they did not give me anything for it—that was Thursday, and on the Sunday morning, the 12th, about 1 o'clock I went with Francis and Drew to my premises, and they made a search—the prisoner did not lodge there, and I never saw him there because I was not in.

Cross-examined. I did not see you with any sweet stuff or chocolate when you came ashore.

JOSEPH JOYCE (Detective R). On June 4 I saw the prisoner in a beer-house at Greenwich—I told him I wanted him to come outside—he came out and I said, "This is for breaking into a refreshment house in the park and taking about 16s. worth of chocolate and other things—he made no reply; but at the station he said, "I thought it was all over; I know nothing about it. I was in prison on 3rd March and came out on Good Friday morning. I have heard all about it, all right"—Good Friday was five days before—I had been looking for him in the interval, and on May 2nd I saw him at Woolwich and he saw me—I was some distance off and he turned back and ran up a by-street, and I lost him—I went to his house with Drew on April 12th, 22, Tyler Street, we had great difficulty in getting in—we were kept there about 20 minutes before we could examine the place—the back door was open and he had no doubt gone out that way—we found nothing there—that is his mother's house—he had been absent, and we had been looking after him two months and had advertised him.

The prisoner in hit statement before the Magistrate and in his defence said that he met Evans and Pollard in the Park, who said that there were some sweets to the pit and he stood with his hands in his pockets, and when they ran he ran with them, but that he knew nothing about the robbery.


22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-693
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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693. MARY ROBERTS , Unlawfully secretly disposing of the dead body of her child, with intent to conceal the birth thereof.

MR. POLAND Prosecuted MR.WARBURTON Defended.


Before Mr. Recorder.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-694
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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694. WILLIAM PARKS (38) PLEADED GUILTY to indecently assaulting Emma Ann Parks, aged 10 years.— Eighteen Months' Hard Labour, and

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-695
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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695. EMMA BREWER (31) [Pleaded guilty: see original trial image] to obtaining by false pretences 10s. and 9s. from Elizabeth Eleanor Keeling, and 15s. and 20s. from Walter Frost, with intent to defraud, after a conviction of a like offence at this Court on 17th November, 1884, in the name of Sarah Shipley Allwright .— Eighteen Months' Hard Labour.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-696
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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696. JOSEPH REEVES (24) PLEADED GUILTY to unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.— Nine Months' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-697
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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697. JAMES CLARKE (29) , Stealing money amounting to 1l. 17s. 3d. of William Haseltine and others.

MR. HUGGINS Prosecuted; MR. WOODGATE Defended.

THOMAS JENKINS . I am manager to Messrs. Haseltine, tea dealers, of 33, Atlantic Road, Brixton—on 11th June, between 8.10 and 8.30 a.m., the prisoner came in for 1oz. of tea and half a pound of sugar—I went to the other end of the counter to weigh the tea—there was a bag on the counter containing 1l. 10s. in gold and 7s. 3d. in silver, partly covered by letters and papers—I missed it about three minutes after the prisoner left, and went to the police-station—no customer had been in since the prisoner—I went to the tram stables, Canterbury Road, the same evening about 7.45, and recognised the prisoner—he came up to me and said, "All right, I will see you in a minute round the corner"—I waited nearly 20 minutes and he did not come—I left Mr. Cottage to watch while I went for a constable—I brought one back and gave the prisoner in charge—I had also been to the stables in the middle of the day, but did not see the prisoner.

Cross-examined. I first went there with a detective in plain clothes—the prisoner might have been there then, but I did not see him—there were about six people in the yard going in and out of the stables—I will undertake to swear that nobody called out to me even though I did not hear them—that is quite as true as the rest of my evidence—the papers did not entirely cover the bag, the left end was uncovered—I had put the papers there—I had no object in covering it partly and not wholly—I did not deliver the prisoner's two parcels right on top of this bag, but on this side of it, about a foot from it—a detective went with me in the morning and Mr. Cottage in the evening—the detective left me about 10 a.m., and after that I walked up and down the yard by myself till 2 o'clock, when I went away, and went back with Mr. Cottage in the evening.

WILLIAM COTTAGE . I am a letter-carrier, of 34, Eversley Road, Wandsworth—on 11th June, about 11 p.m., I met Mr. Jenkins in Canterbury Road, and had a conversation with him—I then watched, and in about a quarter of an hour I saw the prisoner on horseback—he said, "I know what you want, but I can't stop now as I am in a hurry"—I said, "My friend is at the top of the road waiting for you"—he moved off on the horse, but a policeman came up with Mr. Jenkins and he was arrested.

ALBERT PEDDER (Policeman W 409). On 11th June about 8.15 p.m. I took the prisoner—I made a note of what he said—I said "I shall take you on a charge of stealing 1l. 17s. 3d. "—he said "I did not steal the money; I went into the shop and bought an ounce of tea and half a pound of sugar, and I must have picked up the bag with the cloth that I had a loaf of bread in; as I was walking away I felt something fall down the leg of my trousers; I did not have time to take it back"—when the charge was read over he said "You ought to be ashamed of yourself"—I said "What have you done with the bag?"—he said "I threw that away"—I found on him 2l. 10s. in gold, 15s. in silver, and fourpence—I did not find any loaf—I did not go to his house.

THOMAS JENKINS (Re-examined). I do not sell bread—he may have had a loaf with him—it was a black linen bag with two strings—I left it on the counter because my assistant gave it to me and the postman

came in, and soon after I noticed that it was gone, but the papers were there, and he could not have taken the bag without taking the papers.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "About 8.30 on 11th June I went to buy my things for breakfast, and put my bag on the counter while I took out my money. When I went out I took my bag from the counter. I heard something fall, and looked on the ground and saw the bag, and found it contained 1l. 17s. 3d. It occurred to me that it came from the bundle, and I intended to take it back at dinner time. When the prosecutor came I called him, but he did not wait. I went to him in the evening and said I wished to see him, and his money was safe. About 8.15 the foreman told me to take a horse to the Elephant, and I said I wished to settle with him before we went home. I went down Canterbury Road where we saw the prosecutor and a policeman."

GUILTY . He then PLEADED GUILTY to a conviction of felonious receiving at Clerkenwell in June, 1879, when he was sentenced to seven years' penal servitude.

MR. WHEATLEY, the Secretary of the St. Giles's Christian Mission, stated that the prisoner had given his address there, and that on his discharge last January he had 6l. gratuity for good conduct, and was at work when this case occurred. Another witness stated that the prisoner would now have to do the remaining 17 months of his former sentence.— Judgment respited.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-698
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

698. PRICE MORGAN alias GEORGE S. SAUNDERS (29) , Unlawfully obtaining 5l. of William John Taylor by false pretences. Other Counts for a conspiracy to defraud, with persons unknown.



WILLIAM HENRY SMITH . I am manager for my uncle, Jabez Smith, hop merchant, of 11, Borough High Street—he is landlord of No. 58, Gibbon Road, which was let in April, 1883, to a person named Guilliams—I went there to collect the rent soon after June quarter, 1883, and found the prisoner in possession—a grocer's business was carried on there—I got the amount which was due at June, 5l.—I applied several times for the September rent, but only got 3l. 1s.—before the end of December I found Taylor, the present occupant, in possession—I had not given the prisoner authority to hand the premises over to Taylor—he had no interest to assign—he went away leaving nearly two quarters due.

Cross-examined. The prisoner was not our tenant and did not owe the rent, Guilliams was our man—there was no name over the shop, but the prisoner was carrying on the business because there was no one else there—he may have been an assistant.

Re-examined. He paid some rent—I gave him a receipt in the name of Gwilliams, and he accepted it.

WILLIAM JOHN TAYLOR. I am a grocer, of 51, Gibbon Road, Nunhead—I called there about 4th December, 1883, saw the prisoner, and asked him if the business was to be sold—he said "Yes," and asked me 40l. for the fixtures and business and a proffered valuation—the name on the bags used in the shop was G. S. Saunders—he said that the business done was 20l. to 25l. a week—I paid him 5l. deposit, to be returned if I was not accepted by the landlord—he did not say who was the tenant—this is his receipt. (For 5l., part of 40l. purchase money, signed George Saunders,

and written on the back of a printed bill-head of G. S. Saunders.) I called next day to see if I was accepted by the landlord and waited some hours, but no landlord came—the prisoner said he would either write or wire to me next morning, and next morning I received a telegram and went to 51, Gibbon Road—while I was there a man arrived who said he was the landlord, and asked if I had been in the grocery line before—I said that I had not—he inquired into my references, said that he was quite satisfied, and that my rent commenced at the December quarter—I asked about the agreement—he said "Oh, you had better have a fresh one drawn up on Monday, we will have two drawn up, which will be sent to you, and you will pay for the stamp and return me the other"—that was on Wednesday, and I arranged with the prisoner that I should come in on the Friday, which I did, and paid the prisoner 40l. for the lease and goodwill, for which this is his receipt (produced)—I moved in, and on the Saturday I paid him 50l. more for the stock, making 90l., but the receipt is only for 80l., because 10l. was to remain for three months—I got a receipt for 80l. over again—he was to pay the rates and taxes, but he did not do so—I paid the company a deposit on the gas-meter—when I examined the stock some of the jam pots were made up with paper on the top and nothing in them, but some had real jam—some packets which looked like sugar contained sawdust—on the Monday night I had a visit from a Sheriff's officer for a debt of Badger and Co., and in consequence of what passed I found out that Mr. Jabez Smith was the real landlord; I saw him, he was not the man who had been introduced to me as the landlord—I made a representation to him, and he let me off my rent at Christmas—he claimed the fixtures I was supposed to have bought—when I parted with my money I believed the man who was introduced to me to be the landlord and that it was all stock in the shop, and not sawdust and empty jam pots—I never saw or heard of Mr. Guilliams.

Cross-examined. I was a seedsman and florist before I took this shop, and had had no experience in the grocery business—I have seen false cheeses in grocers' windows—I am still in the business, and taking 20l. to 25l. a week, which is what the prisoner represented; but I did not take so much at first, I have managed to inc✗rease it by perseverance.

Re-examined. When I first bought the business the takings were only about 10l. a week—the takings are now 25l.—that is not 25l. profit.

By MR. FULLER. The prisoner said 25l. takings, not profit—I did not examine the stock before taking the business—no stock was taken—the prisoner suggested my taking it at a valuation.

HARRY MAKING . I am clerk to Frederick Making, trading as Badger and Co., Broad Street, Eatcliff, manufacturing confectioners—in 1883 we had a traveller named Reide; upon his introduction we supplied goods to Saunders, of 51, Gibbon Eoad, to the amount of 21l. 9s. 8d.—I produce the delivery-book—these entries of 25th and 27th July of goods sent are signed "G. Saunders"—this order (produced) of goods sent on 25th July is signed by G. Saunders—I afterwards went to 51, Gibbon Road, and saw the prisoner there, and in my presence he wrote this invoice. (For tea and cheese, signed Thos. Guilliams.) The writing on all the documents in my opinion is the same—we got no money, and issued a writ and got judgment and issued execution for 21l. 9s. 8d.—we got nothing—I believed he was carrying on a legitimate business or I should not have supplied the goods.

Cross-examined. We occasionally have debts of 21l.—we don't consider debtors to that amount fraudulent, it entirely depends upon circumstances.

Re-examined. I looked upon this decidedly as a fraud.

WILLIAM RANSOM HUTCHINSON . I live at 44, Arundel Square, Barnsbury Park, and am in the employment of David Barnett, trading as David Barnett and Co., at 11, Long Lane, Smithfield—in June and July, and up to September, 1883, we supplied goods to G. S. Saunders, of 51, Gibbon Road, Nunhead, to the total amount of 16l. 1s. 10d.—they were delivered by Pickford's—the orders were obtained through our traveller Richardson—the largest order is contained in this letter (Signed G. S. Saunders.)—the deliveries were on 20th June 2l. 10s. 9d., July 11th 1l. 2s. 8d., and Sept. 10th 12l. 8l. 5d.—goods were dispatched on those days by Pickford—we never got our money—we parted with our goods because we thought he was good.

Cross-examined. I never saw G. S. Saunders—the prisoner did not order the goods himself; he was solicited by our traveller, who left our employ a long time ago to better himself, not on account of this order—we did not know it was bad then.

ERNEST GRIFFITHS . I am clerk to Pickford and Co., carriers—I find on this delivery-sheet, "J," under 22nd June, 1883, a signature in the name of G. Saunders, for the delivery of one parcel of boxes and a packet—I also find on this delivery-sheet, "K," on 10th September, 1883, a signature of G. S. Saunders for five crates of tinware, and on 11th September a signature of G. S. Saunders for a chest of tea marked 3805, and another for a chest of tea marked 115; and on this delivery-sheet, "M," a signature of Saunders for a half-chest of tea marked 287.

CHARLES HENRY STAMMERS . I am clerk to William Pain, trading as Pain and Co., of 27, Rood Lane, tea merchants—we received an order, and on 10th September we sent off three packages of tea to G. Saunders, 51, Gibbon Road, Nunhead, value 13l. 1s. 3d.—we never got the money—we sent it because we thought he was doing a genuine trade.

Cross-examined. We subscribe to the British Mercantile Agency for making inquiries concerning customers—we got this order through a traveller—I never saw G. Saunders.

JOHN RITTMEISTER . I am one of the firm of William Muller and Co., 15, Abchurch Lane—I was manager to them in 1883—I received an order for five cases of condensed milk from G. Saunders, 51, Gibbon Road, Nunhead, and dispatched it to that address by London Parcels Delivery Company—we never got our money—I never saw the prisoner—I sent the order, believing the person was carrying on a genuine business.

JOHN JAMES HUMPHREYS . I live at 35, Russell Street, Battersea—in October last I was a carman in the employment of the London Parcels Delivery Company, and on 19th October I delivered five cases of milk to G. S. Saunders, 51, Gibbon Road, Nunhead—I delivered goods there four or five times a week—I cannot swear to the prisoner.

Cross-examined. I saw G. S. Saunders a great many times, but I can't swear to him.

THOMAS KNIGHT . I am clerk to Mr. Robinson, the Sheriff's officer for Surrey—on 15th October, 1883, I levied a distress on the goods of G. S. Saunders, at 51, Gibbon Road, at the suit of Badger and Co., for

28l. 15s.—this (produced) is our warrant—I examined the goods—they were of such a paltry description that they would not have realised the expense of removal, and we withdrew, and wrote to the plaintiff's solicitor.

Cross-examined. I saw one of the assistants there—I can't say whether the prisoner is like him.

JOHN SEEAR . I am a chartered accountant of 23, Holborn Viaduct—I am landlord of 142, Crystal Palace Road, which I let to the prisoner in February, 1884, under this agreement, which was handed to me by my agent, Mr. Craggs—I knew the prisoner as George Thorne—the rent was 40l. a year payable quarterly in advance—I received 5l. rent—I regained possession at the end of August—he went away on 29th August taking the key of the premises with him.

Cross-examined. Besides the prisoner I saw another man in the shop, and some one who I presume to be the prisoner's wife—I identify the prisoner.

TOM CRAGGS . I live at 246, Commercial Road, and am agent and collector to Mr. Seear—this agreement marked O was signed by the prisoner in the name of George Thorne and Co.—on 19th April I received from him 1l., and on 26th April 15s., on 27th May 10s., on 31st May 8s., and on 7th June 10s. rent—that is all I received—I tried to get the rest of the rent at different times, but could not get it—he remained there about six months—I went there one day and found the shop shut up and everything taken away except the fittings.

Cross-examined. The prisoner paid me the rent sometimes and sometimes his wife—I took him to be the master of the shop because he signed the agreement, and I saw him at different times in the shop.

JOHN BOWYER WALTON . I am one of the firm of Cave and Co., of Peckham, auctioneers—I made an appraisement of the goods at 142, Crystal Palace Road—I don't remember the amount distrained for—I appraised the goods at 2l. 19s.; that was a fair appraisement—I found sawdust in the parcels there.

THOMAS FREDERICK SCOTT . I am manager for Rudelhalt and Sons, of Joseph Street, Shadwell, chicory dealers—in June, 1884, we had a traveller named Davies—we received an order through him from 142, Crystal Palace Road, and sent chicory, coffee, and chocolate to that address—shortly after that I called there and found a woman in the shop and recognised some of my chocolate packets in the window—I had invoiced voiced him some cocoa at 9 1/2 d. per pound, and he was selling it at 6d.—I could not get any money and I took everything I could get hold of, the value of which was 1l. 14s. 6d.—when I supplied these goods to G. Thorne and Co. I thought they were carrying on a genuine business as grocers.

Cross-examined. The packets of cocoa were first packed in paper and then in boxes—he would be justified in selling them at a lower price than he bought them at if they were badly damaged—the prisoner is different to Mr. Thorne, who was clean shaved—he is similar to him in stoutness—2l. 7s. is still owing to us—a traveller brought the order—we pay our traveller salary and commission.

Re-examined. That traveller is now serving five years' penal servitude—the packets were in tins with paper on the sides and fastened up in a wooden box.

WILLIAM ROBERT IRWIN . I am a provision merchant in Ireland—I used to carry on business in Britannia Road, Fulham—I supplied butter to George Thorne, of 142, Crystal Palace Road, to the value of 24l. 2s. 6d.—Edward Fergusson gave me the order, and I believe the prisoner is the man who was with him—I have never been paid—I brought an action against George Thorne and got nothing—I believed it to be a genuine business when I sent the butter; Mr. Fergusson represented that it was.

Cross-examined. I don't identify the prisoner as Thorne, he was shaved at that time—William Morgan took the goods away from my premises to Crystal Palace Road.

LUCY GRAHAM . I live at 212 Commercial Road, Peckham—on 25th July I was carrying on the business of a maker of chutney—I had a traveller in my employ named Freeman—I had an order through him on June 24th for some chutney to the amount of 37s. 10d.—I sent half the amount, 18s. 4d., to Mr. Thorne, 142, Crystal Palace Road, on 30th July—shortly after that I found some of my chutney in Mr. Byfield's oil-shop in Peckham—I had never sold any to him—when I executed this order I believed Thorne was carrying on a genuine business—I never got my money.

Cross-examined. I pay my traveller a commission—I did not make any inquiries in this case—I usually do—he earns his commission whether the money is paid or not, and he had it from me.

WALTER GRAHAM . I am the last witness's son and live with her—on 30th July I delivered this parcel of chutney at 142, Crystal Palace Road, to a woman in the shop, and she signed the book, which has since been lost or destroyed.

NATHANIEL LOVEDAY . I live at 17, Millard Road, Kingsland, and am carman to Richard Brown, of 43, Shacklewell Lane, Kingsland—on 29th October I delivered three half cases of eggs and two dozen of butter to 222, Belsize Road, and I delivered other goods there on the 5th and 12th November from my master, Mr. Brown.

Cross-examined. On the first occasion they were signed for in the name of Morgan—I do not think the prisoner is the man—on the second occasion they were signed for by Croxford, the shopman.

CHARLES GOODSON . I am a farmer, of Great Dalby, Leicester—about 26th November I received this letter (produced), and in reply wrote to Crauford and Co., and received this letter. (Ordering 12 Stilton cheeses and giving references.) I sent goods value 9l.—I never got paid for them—I also received this letter. (Signed "G. Ferguson," stating that he had sent a cheque for 9l. 10s. 8d.) I never received any cheque—I went to the shop and found it closed, and the shutters up—I thought he was carrying on a genuine business there from the references.

FREDERICK SQUIRES . I live at Enfield Road, Acton, and am a pig dealer—I have had some dealings with two men, Mungo and Edward Fergusson (See Vol. XCIX., p. 798), and through them I heard of the Wiltshire Provision Stores, 222, Belsize Road, and received this order (produced) for two small pigs—I sent them on the 8th, and on the 18th I called and saw the prisoner there, and showed him this cheque for 11l. 3s. which I had received from him for three pigs supplied to the Wiltshire Provision Stores on 11th November—I told him I had had it returned, and he gave me another one for 22l. 2s. 8d., which was for the

dishonoured cheque and some more pigs—I supplied 26 altogether—I had a cheque for 3l. 14s. 4d. for the first two pigs sent on the 8th, which was paid—I saw him draw the cheque for 22l. 2s. 8d.—I called again on 22nd November and saw one pig of mine hanging up in the shop—there had been eight delivered the day before—I identified it by a mark on the hind foot—I asked the prisoner where the rest were—he said some of them were down in the cellar—I told him I thought not—I addressed him in the name of Fergusson and Co.—I saw him write the cheque in that name—when I first delivered these pigs I thought he was carrying on a genuine business there—the total amount owing to me is 49l. 9s. 6d.—2l. has since been paid to my solicitor.

Cross-examined. I can't say who paid the 2l.—I thought the order for the pigs came from the prisoner—most of the orders came by telegram from Fergusson and Co.—I am certain the prisoner was on the premises—he did not wear whiskers—I did not go down into the cellar.

JOHN BARSHAM . I live at Burkett Park, Faringdon, Berkshire, and manage a dairy for Mr. Campbell—in February last I received a letter from A. M. Fergusson, 222, Belsize Road, which has since been destroyed—I replied to that letter, and afterwards received six letters dated from October to December—the total amount of goods I supplied was 119l. 12s. 2d.—I have never received a fathing of that sum—in December I called and saw a man there whom I believe to be the prisoner, but he was clean shaved—I believed when I supplied the goods that Fergusson was carrying on a legitimate business there.

Cross-examined. I asked for Mr. Fergusson, and he represented himself as Mr. Fergusson.

GILBERT SPRATT BURROWS . I am a farmer, living near Oxbridge in Somersetshire—a few days after December last I received this letter (Signed G. Morgan, 222, Belsize Road, ordering eight churns of milk a day, and giving two references)—I wrote to the references, Fergusson and Craufurd and Co.—I received this letter dated 22nd December (This stated that Morgan was perfectly trustworthy, and his account might run to 100l.)—I supplied milk to him from the 12th to 18th January to the amount of 6l. 3s. 9d.—I never got paid, and I only got four out ot nine churns back—I believed when I supplied the milk that he was carrying on a legitimate business.

Cross-examined. I have my book here—I have never seen the prisoner or his money.

GEORGE WILLIAM CROCKFORD . I live at 43, Chester Street, Kennington Road—in October, 1884, I was in the prisoner's employment at 222, Belsize Road, St. John's Wood, as cheesemonger's assistant—I knew him as Price Morgan—the business was carried on in the name of the Wiltshire Provision Stores, G. Fergusson and Co.—I remained in their employment till January, 1885—during the first six weeks there was a little business done, and after that it did not seem to go on so well—the goods came in and went out again—they were either taken out by the prisoner or by George Price in large quantities—they would come in one day and go out the next—I recollect some dead pigs coming, and some butter in hampers—the butter went away in the hampers and the pigs in the cases in which they came—one or two were cut up for the shop—I remember butter coming from Burkett dairy—that went away the same way—the shop was then shut up and everything cleared out—that

was on February 1st—I was paid my wages—these two documents (References to character) signed Craufurd and Co. are very much like the prisoner's writing—this document marked "4 A 5," and signed "Fergusson," is in the prisoner's writing I believe.

Cross-examined. For the first six weeks a really good business was done—the place was shut up because the Sheriff was after him—I remember butter and eggs coming from a man named Brown—some were taken away by George Price and some sold in the shop—I believe some of the goods went to a man named Fergusson—I don't know whether any books were kept.

Re-examined. I saw one small book—George Price used to come there and Fergusson who is in prison now.

By the JURY. October was when we were doing such a good trade—that is not a good time for our trade—this is the best time.

WILLIAM HOARE . I am manager of the Freehold and Leasehold Land Company, Goswell Road—they own a house and shop at 93, Barnwell Road, Brixton—in January, 1884, we let that house upon an agreement to a man named Watts—I saw a man calling himself Watts in possession in January, 1885—I don't recognise the prisoner as the man—the last week in March I took possession; the Lady Day rent was not paid, and the place was cleared out.

Cross-examined. I did not go there personally; I saw Watts twice.

WILLIAM HARRIS . I am carman to Harry Hansom, of New Yard, Great Queen Street, milk contractors—in December last and to 8th February this year we supplied milk to 93, Barnwell Road—we were paid up to 8th January, and on 8th February 5l. 4s. was due to us—I saw the prisoner there, he was carrying on the business in the name of Francis—we never got the 5l. 4s.—I believed that he was carrying on a genuine business when I supplied the milk.

Cross-examined. He paid me for the first week or two for what he had.

ALEXANDER SWELLS . I live at 50, Naylor Road, Peckham, and am traveller to Mr. Mainwaring, an oilman—I called in the ordinary course of business at 93, Barnwell Road, and left a price-list—I received a written order for grocery, value between 4l. and 5l., on February 11th, sent the goods, called two or three times for the money but did not get it, and finally found the place shut up and everything cleared out.

Cross-examined. I received the order by post—I never saw the prisoner on the premises.

FRANK HOLLAND . I am carman to Mr. Mainwaring—I delivered some goods for him in February last at 93, Barnwell Road—I did not see the prisoner there.

EDWARD WORRALL . I am salesman to Mr. Matthews, egg importer, of 7, Albany Road—I called at 93, Barnwell Road, saw the prisoner, and sold him some eggs, which he paid for—he afterwards got eggs from me value 4l., and never paid for them—I went and found the shop shut up.

Cross-examined. I went there many times, and saw the prisoner sometimes and his wife once.

ROBERT BLAIR M'NAUGHTEN . I am agent for a Himalaya tea house, 110, Cannon Street—in consequence of a correspondence I sent tea value 3l. 4s. 2d. to George Francis, 43, Barnwell Road, and on 19th March I went there and saw a woman and a lot of tea in packets with our name

on them—I never got paid—I afterwards found the place shut up—I did not see the prisoner.

CHARLES VINEY (Detective Sergeant). On 15th April I saw the prisoner outside the Justice Room, Guildhall—he had been brought up on another charge and discharged, and I said to him "I shall have to take you in custody on this warrant for obtaining goods from B. Barnett and Co., Aldersgate Street"—he said "You are well set to work to rake up old stuff like that"—I said "We have plenty of others, north, east, and west, and in London as well," and mentioned Saunders, Thorne, and several other names—he said "You are mistaken about them"—I said "I don't think I am"—he said "You seem to know all about it"—I said "Yes, I know a little about it"—I took him to the station.

GUILTY .— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-699
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

699. CHARLES OWEN , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. GOODRICH Prosecuted; MR. GEOGHEGAN Defended.

MARY HERRING . I am assistant to Henry James Cole, pastrycook, 24, Walworth Road—on 3rd June, about half-past 4 o'clock, the prisoner came in for a bottle of lemonade, and tendered this two-shilling piece, which I picked up and bit—I found it very soft, my teeth left a slight mark—I called Mrs. Cole; she said to the prisoner "I don't think this is good"—he then tendered a good half-crown and I gave him 2s. 4d. change—Mrs. Cole put the florin on the counter, the prisoner picked it up—Mrs. Cole said "I believe you are the young man that came in yesterday"—he said "Yes"—she said "That two-shilling piece you gave then was a bad one"—he said "If you can prove that I gave it to you I will make it good"—I said "I can, as I have not taken another two-shilling piece"—I was serving on 2nd June the whole day; I had not taken another florin except that from the prisoner on that day—that one I put in the till, it was the only one there—I afterwards gave it to a strange lady from the till in change, and she brought it back broken in these two pieces, and said it was the one I had given her in change—I recognised the prisoner as soon as he came in on the 3rd as the person who had passed that on the previous day—I gave him 1s. 11d. change for the florin—it was the only florin I took that day—I was the only person serving that day in the shop.

Cross-examined. The lady is not here—I take my meals at the shop, attending to the shop all the time, but do not sleep there—Mrs. Cole attends to the shop only occasionally—I did not notice the florin was bad when I first took it—the prisoner wrote down "Taylor, 72, Lorrimore House, Lorrimore Street, Kennington," and also "59, Pollock Road"—he said Mr. Taylor was his employer—he said I could make inquiries, that he was a respectable young fellow, and would call in that night and pay me—Mrs. Cole was not serving on the 2nd, and took no money.

GEORGE BOURNE (Policeman P 370). On 3rd June I was called to 24, Walworth Road, and the prisoner was given into my charge—I searched him in the shop, and found two shillings and fourpence on him good money, the change he had had—he gave me the bad 2s. before I searched him—there was no other money on him—he gave me this paper with the address—his employer lives at 180, Hill Street, not Lorrimore Street—at the station he gave his name and address, Charles Owen, 59, Pollock Road, New Kent Road—he said he did not know it was bad, and tha the

was in the shop the day previous and tendered a two-shilling piece, but did not know it was bad—when charged he said "I had 5s. this morning off a pal of mine called Bob, I do not know his other name."

Cross-examined. Hill Street is at the back of Lorrimore Street, and the back entrance of 180, Hill Street is in Lorrimore Street—his employer is Mr. Taylor, a boot and shoe manufacturer—he himself lives at 59, Pollock Road—he said of both coins he did not know they were bad.

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . I am a skilled witness on behalf of the Treasury to examine counterfeit coins—these two florins are both bad, from different moulds.


22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-700
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

700. MARY ANN SEWELL (18) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. GOODBIOH Prosecuted.

HENRY MITCHELL . I am a fish-fryer at 38, London Road, Southwark—on 6th June, at 3 o'clock, I was in the shop, and saw the prisoner served with a pennyworth of fish, for which she tendered a florin—I said, 'What is this you have got here?"—she said, "A two-shilling piece"—I said, "Where did you get it from?"—she said, "From where I work, at 1 o'clock; very well, keep it, and I will go and get some more money to pay for the fish"—I let Her go, putting the two-shilling piece on the shelf by itself—she left the fish—I followed her to the Elephant and Castle, spoke to Constable Upton, and we both followed her—she crossed over into the Walworth Road, where she met a man, and they went together as far as Station Road, at the corner of which the man passed her something—she left the man and went into Knox's shop—I watched her out, and communicated to the people in the shop—the constable brought her back—I after wards gave the constable this two—shilling piece—I bent it myself in the till-trier before she left my shop.

LOUISA STEADMAN . I am manager to Mr. Knox, 80, Walworth Road, confectioner—at 3 o'clock on this day the prisoner came in for a penny-worth of cough drops and put down this two-shilling piece—I bent it in the trier and said, "Do you know this is bad?"—she said, "No, I took it for my work at 1 o'clock to-day"—I thought it might be true, and gave it her back, and allowed her to go—alter she had gone a young man came in and spoke to me, and then a constable brought the prisoner back, and she was charged.

JAMES ADAMS (Policeman L 75). I have heard Mitchell's examination; it was correct—I took the prisoner back to the confectioner's shop—I asked Miss Steadman if she had the two-shilling piece—she said "No"—the prisoner said, "Here it is," and took it out of her right-hand jacket pocket and gave it to me—I took her to the station and charged her with the double uttering—she said, "My husband received it in his wages at the Blackfriars Bridge," that was referring to the last one, she said nothing as to the other—she afterwards said, when charged by the inspector, that she was a prostitute and not married to him—I received the first coin from Mitchell, the second from the prisoner.

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . These two florins are bad, and from the same mould.

The prisoner in her defence stated she never had had such things before, and did not know what it was that the man, whom she had only known for a week, had given to her.

GUILTY Eight Month's Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-701
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

701. WILLIAM GROVES (60) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. GOODRICH Prosecuted.

ALFRED BEAR . I am barman at the Bed Lion public-house, West-minster Road, kept by Charles Best—on 15th May, about 10 minutes to 9 a.m., the prisoner came in for twopennyworth of rum, and tendered this coin something like a sovereign; it is a gilt farthing; it was very light—I asked him, "Have you any more?"—he said "No"—I asked if he knew where he got it from—he said, "I got it at a railway-station"—I said I did not believe him—he pulled out some good money and offered to pay for the rum and said, "I got it where I worked"—I said I did not believe it, and sent for a constable—I showed him the coin——he asked the prisoner if he had got any more money—he said "Yes"—the policeman asked him to turn out his pockets, and he found on him something short of 2s. in silver and bronze—he then paid me for the twopennyworth of rum with bronze—I told him I should charge him—I he said he was quite willing to go, and went down the street—I charged him at the station—he said he was at work at Eltham Station, where he had the money.

PETER WHITE (Policeman L 119). The prisoner was given into my charge—I took him to the station, searched him, and found on him 1s. 6d. silver, 1 1/2 d. bronze, all good money—he said he got it for his wages from Mr. Scott, the timekeeper, Eltham Railway Station.

Cross-examined. You did not say the office at Eltham Railway Station—you mentioned the name of Bloss as the employer of Mr. Scott.

ALBERT SCOTT. I live at Nottingham Street, and am employed as timekeeper at Eltham by Messrs. Skellet and Bentley (I don't know Mr. Bloss), who carry on business in Victoria Street—the prisoner was at work as a labourer on the 14th and 15th, and on the 15th I paid the prisoner 1l. 6s. 2d. in a sovereign and silver and bronze—I am certain I did not give him this coin—the gold only came out of the Bank of England two days previously into my hands, and was new.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. Your wages came to 1l. 6s. 2d.—I had only 1l. 6s. change and I paid you that, and you went outside the office and kept repeating that it was not right with a great deal of abuse—I did not pay you 1l. 5s. 7d. instead of 1l. 6s. 2d.—I paid you another penny afterwards—our office is exactly opposite the railway station.

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . This is a good farthing gilded, and is a counterfeit coin, as it is intended to pass for a superior coin.

ALBERT SCOTT (Re-examined by the JURY). I pay the money out of a money-bag I always carry; it had other money in it—I carry it to make all necessary payments out of it.


22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-702
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

702. JAMES MARSHALL (38) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. GOODRICH prosecuted; MR. KEITH FRITH Defended.

WILLIAM DIPROSE . I am a barman at the Olive Branch public-house, Waterloo Road—on 13th June the prisoner came in at 2.45 with a friend for two halves of mild and bitter, and tendered this half-crown—he drank his beer, and immediately walked out of the house—I had not given him any change; he had not asked for any—I turned to break the money in the tester, and when I turned round he had gone out of the door—he could have seen me breaking the money—I jumped over the counter and caught him at the corner of Oakley Street, 25 or 30 yards off, and told

him it was bad—he seemed rather surprised, and turned back to the place—a constable was called to the door—the governor charged the prisoner—I gave the constable the half-crown—the prisoner's friend stopped in the house all the time till the constable came in, and then he left—I had never seen either of them before.

Cross-examined. I had never heard any part of their conversation—a stained glass window two feet above the counter runs along its front; we can see under it without stooping—the friend stayed there after I had gone.

Re-examined. From where the prisoner was standing he could see me test the coin.

GEORGE RUMBLE (Policeman L 74). I was called to the Olive Branch and the prisoner was given into my charge—I searched him and found a florin and a penny good money—he said, "My friend here knows what I tendered; he knows I have tendered this money innocently"—I said "Let your friend come into the bar-parlour with me while I search him"—as I was taking the prisoner into the bar-parlour the friend ran away—I looked through the open door and saw him running away—I took the prisoner to the station and charged him—the friend had stayed while the prisoner ran away.

Cross-examined. I remember the prisoner saying he had given Sergeant Pickles some information about bad money after he arrived at the station—I went to see Mr. Eldridge at the Alhambra on Monday—he said he had given the prisoner half-a-crown he owed him on this very day—he was at the police-court and is here.

TEOMAS PICKLES (Police Sergeant M). On 12th June, the day before this uttering, the prisoner came to see the inspector on duty, who called me to him—the prisoner gave me information with reference to forged Bank of England notes—the same evening we had another conversation about the man.

Cross-examined. The police give people called "policeman's noses" money for information—the prisoner mentioned no name to me.

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . This is a counterfeit half-a-crown.

Witnesses for the Defence.

——WRIGHT (City Detective Sergeant). The prisoner has given me and other officers important information in regard to criminal matters, notably a silk robbery in the City—I gave him 25l. for that—he was always truthful and honest as far as I knew—that was his means of livelihood—I and other officers have employed him under my instructions—he mentioned the matter to me that he told Pickles of—I have trusted him in important matters.

WALTER ELDRIDGE . I am a scene-painter's assistant working at the Alhambra—on the day the prisoner was taken into custody I paid him at 3 o'clock half-a-crown I owed him and lent him 2s.—I said I would see him later on—I could not swear if this is the half-crown I gave him; I took no notice of it—I have always known him to be at work—I was paid at 12 and I guess it was about 3 o'clock I gave it to him.

Cross-examined. To the best of my belief I gave him good money.


22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-703
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

Related Material

703. GEORGE ALBERT JUDD (19) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

ALICE MILLER . I am the wife of Charles Archer Miller, who keeps a general shop at 139, Lower Road, Deptford—on 6th May the prisoner came for one ounce of tea and a quarter of sugar, which came to 2 1/4 d., tendering half-a-crown and a farthing—I gave him 2s. 4d. change and he left—I put the half-crown in the drawer with other hah-crowns, and found nothing wrong till the Friday—on the 7th (Thursday) he came again for the same articles and tendered again half a crown and a farthing, and received 2s. 4d. change—I put the half-crown in the till again—on Friday, the 8th, I discovered two bad half-crowns—but before that on that day the prisoner came in between 5 and 6 for the same articles and tendered half-a-crown and a farthing; it was a smooth George one—I put it in the till again—that night my husband called my attention to a bad half-crown in the till—I recognised it as the one I had taken from the prisoner—I put it away by itself—on the 9th he came in again for one ounce of tea and half a pound of sugar, tendering another half-crown—I could see it was a bad one and went behind the counter to put it in the tester—it bent—I bent for my next-door neighbour, and the little boy came and detained the prisoner till a constable came—before the constable came he said he did not know it was bad, and added "You don't wish to keep me here"—besides those tendered on Friday and Saturday I found two others in the till, but I could not swear to them—I gave up the four to the police.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. On Friday I put your half-crown in the till with other money; I did not rake other half-crowns over it—I could swear that is the half-crown you gave me, because there was no other one like it—my husband broke it like this.

FLORENCE PERCIVAL . I live at 94, Union Road, Rotherhithe, and am manager to Joseph Down, a pastrycook—on 7th May, between 6 and 7 o'clock p.m., the prisoner came in for two custards and tendered a half-crown—I gave him 2s. 4d. change, and he left—I put the half-crown in the till where there were other half-crowns—in the evening I took it out of the till, not knowing it was bad, and put it in the bag with the other money—the prisoner had been coming in for a fortnight and always giving me half-crowns—on the 6th he came in between 6 and 7 for two custards, Gertrude Littlecott served him in my presence—he tendered a half-crown and received 2s. 4d. change—Littlecott put the half-crown in the till, there were no other half-crowns there—on Saturday, the 9th, the prisoner came in about half-past 4 for two custards; he tendered a half-crown, and received ls. 4d.—I noticed the half-crown was a very white-looking one, and I laid it on the top of the till by itself—directly he had left the shop I took it out again and put it in a drawer by itself—I put two of them together, gave information to the police, and on Monday I was taken to the station and picked the prisoner out of eight others—I can swear to the prisoner.

Cross-examined. You had been in every day for a fortnight—one day I sounded the coin, and you said "Who do you think I am? do you think I should bring you bad money?"—you always had so much to say.

GEORGE BROOKS . I live at Lower Road, Deptford, next door to Mrs. Miller's—on 9th May she sent for me in the afternoon—I went and found the prisoner detained—he said "I shan't run away"—I said "I will see you don't"—he came towards the door—I put my hand towards the door

and said "You aren't going out"—he made a rush to go out and he pulled me out of the door, but I held him fast till a constable came.

ALFRED CHASE (Policeman M 131). I was fetched to Mrs. Miller's and found the prisoner detained there—she gave him in charge for passing a bad half-crown on that night and on Friday night and handed me these two coins—I searched the prisoner, and on him found a sixpence and a farthing—he said to Mrs. Miller, "I hope you won't charge me"—on the way to the station he said "Don't hold me so tight, I shall not runaway."

JOHN GALPIN (Police Inspector M). I was on duty at Rotherhithe when the prisoner was brought in—he said "It seems very funny, she throwing my money in the till along with a lot more after I am gone and then picking it out and saying it was bad, that is all I got to say; I was not aware it was bad money I was taking in there"—on the Sunday he sent for me to the cells, and said "If I turn Queen's evidence against makers and others would they let me off, as I do not see why I should be in here and they are out; I know between 30 and 40 besides two makers?"—I said "I can say nothing about that, if you like to make a statement you can"—he did not do so—a good shilling and a sixpence were found on him.

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . These half-crowns are bad; two are from the same mould, another two from one mould, and another two from one mould.

The prisoner assertod his innocence.

GUILTY.— Judgment respited.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-704
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

704. JOSEPH JAMES REID (29) , Unlawfully obtaining by false pretences from Herbert Halse Sturt ten shillings, and attempting to obtain and obtaining money and goods from other persons, with intent to defraud.


HERBERT HALSE STURT . I am a barman at the Three Compasses—on the 30th May, Saturday afternoon, the prisoner came and asked me if Mr. Waterman was in—I told him he was out—he said he was sorry, as he wanted to go to Taplow to see Mr. George—he asked me to lend him half-a-sovereign, showing me a black leather case on which was "J. J. Reid, detective, New Street, Birmingham," and saying "You can see who I am"—I believed he was a detective, and gave him the ten shillings—he said he would pay me on Monday—he showed im a visiting card.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I was not there on the first occasion you went in the house—Mr. George is the amateur champion runner—I have known him for years—you told me you were a detective.

LEWIS DALE WATERMAN . I am landlord of the Three Compasses, Lower Marsh—at a quarter to 2 on the 1st June the prisoner came and said "I called on Saturday when you were out and obtained ten shillings from your barman; I want you to lend me a further sum until I get a cheque from the Birmingham police"—I took him to be a detective in the police and that the cheque was to be for his wages—he said he had received a cheque from tne Birmingham Police that morning which he had left with a friend to get honoured; would I lend him a further ten shillings, and he would call in the evening to repay me—I had had a conversation with Sturt before this, and in consequence sent for

Constable Rose, who in my presence asked the prisoner to produce his credentials as a detective—the prisoner produced a ticket marked "Reid, Birmingham Police"—I did not give him the money—he was taken in charge at my request by Rose, ana taken to the station.

Cross-examined. I had seen you once previously in my house with Mr. George, who said you had told him you were engaged on the Birmingham Police in the dynamite case, and had been watching some one.

EDWARD GEARING . I am a grocer at 14, Wharfdale Road, King's Cross—early in May the prisoner came and purchased some things, for which he paid—a day or two afterwards he purchased some more, and asked me to cash a cheque—I said I had not got change—he said he would pay for them on the next occasion he was passing by—he said he was a detective—I could not say whether he said he was a detective before or after he had got the goods—he called on me on two or three occasions after that, and had fresh goods to the value of five shillings and eightpence—he has never paid for them, and has never been back to pay for them—I trusted him with the five shillings and eightpence on his representing himself to be a detective—the five shillings and eight-pence worth of goods were supplied after he said he was a detective, and I believed him.

Cross-examined. I should have trusted you whether you had been a detective or not, because you were living round the corner.

JOHN RICHARD DEAN . I live at 423 and 424, Strand, and am a boot-maker—about the beginning of June I was in Ponsonby's spirit stores in the Strand—the prisoner was introduced to me there by Mr. Wall, who said he was a detective—he showed me a leather case with something printed on the outside—the introduction from Mr. Wall was sufficient for me—I did not read the pass—I said to him "You might do a little job for me, as I have been robbed to a great extent some time ago by one of my own men of 300l. "—I engaged him as a detective to go and test, and gave him half-a-sovereign to make the best use of—he was to go in and purchase goods—he went to my shop and bought a pair of slippers for five shillings with two marked half-crowns—I was waiting outside—he told me he had been in, and the money he had marked I found was in my till and entered in the book—I said "You can keep the slippers; if you catch the thief in my place I might give you 10l.; I want you to try the other man, but I must send one man away; keep the other five shillings to test the other man"—he never gave me the other five shillings back—I never asked him about it—he said he was going to try the other shopman—he told me he was a detective.

Cross-examined. You took trouble about the matter—it was a long while before I could arrange about sending the man away—I never allotted you any time to test the other man—I am not indicting you—I introduced you to Mr. Grant, and told him you were a detective—you did not deny it.

HENRY GRANT . I am a butcher, of 5, King William Street, Charing Cross—I met the prisoner at Ponsonby's at the beginning of May; the last witness introduced him to me and told me he was a detective—several days afterwards I met him in the street; he told me he had got a waiting job, and asked me if I would lend him a half-sovereign till he got his money from above, pointing to Bow Street—I told him I was not

in the habit of lending money—he asked me if I would like to come to the Old Bailey to hear the dynamite case—I told him I should like to come the last day to see them take their gruel—a few days afterwards he called twice for me, and one day he waylaid me and asked me to lend him a half-sovereign till he got his money from above, making me believe he was an officer or detective at Bow Street—I told him I was not in the habit of lending money, but as he was a detective I would lend him a half-sovereign, and told him to be sure and bring it back—I lost sight of him for two or three days—when I saw him again he said he was coming in to see me—I said "Be sure you do"—I saw no more of him till one night he passed me, and went in next door, saying "I am coming in to see you"—I next saw him at Southwark Police-court—I lent him the half-sovereign under the belief that he was a detective, and that he came from above.

ELIJAH COPPING . I am Superintendent of the London and North-Western Railway Company—on 27th July, 1881, I engaged the prisoner as a detective in the company's service—he remained there till the 16th August, 1882—part of the time he was at Stratford and part at New Street, Birmingham—on 16th August, 1882, he was called on to resign; he ought to have given his certificate in the leather case up then—he has not been in the company's servioe since 16th August, 1882.

Cross-examined. A second-class pass is issued to detective officers on our route—I believe some supply themselves with cards; I have seen them with them—your conduct during the time you were with us was exceedingly good, so far as we were concerned.

WILLIAM WILCOX . I am Superintendent of the Borough Police of Birmingham—I have been 29 years in the force—the prisoner has not been in the force within the last 10 years.

DREW (Detective Constable). I have been stationed at Bow Street for five years—the prisoner has never been stationed there.

Cross-examined. I have known you a little over two years—I understood you were employed by the railway as a detective officer.

ROSE (Detective L). About 2 o'clock on 1st June I was passing the Three Compasses when Mr. Waterman called me and spoke to me—I asked the prisoner what his business was—he said he was a detective belonging to the Birmingham Police Force, and was employed by the London North-Western Company to watch on behalf of the dynamite affairs—I showed him my card and asked him to show me his—he showed me "J. J. Reid, Detective, New Street, Birmingham," and also produced some papers relating to the London and North-Western Railway, with his card—he asked me if I was satisfied—I said "No"—he said to Waterman "I will see you again at 7"—on the way to the station he said "I know it is all right, you are only doing your duty; I am not a detective, and I will make Mr. Waterman pay for this."

Cross-examined. You did not tell me at the time you had been a detective on the London and North-Western Railway—it was not taken down the first day at the police-court that I said you said you were a detective in the Birmingham Police—I called the attention of the clerk to it.

The prisoner in his defence stated that he had been a detective on the London and North-Western Railway Company and Great Northern Railway Company, the latter of which he had left in Februaryt 1885, and that since then he had

been a private detective, and that he should have repaid the money he had borrowed if he had not been arrested.


22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-705
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

705. WILLIAM SCOTT (21) , Feloniously forging and uttering the endorsement on an order for the payment of 20l., with intent to defraud.

MR. TURNER Prosecuted; MR. KEITH FRITH Defended.

CHARLES AMBROSE WILKES . I am one of the firm of Wilkes and Co., 17, Devonshire Square—I drew and signed this cheque payable to "J. Mears for bricks, Morden, or order," and handed it to the prisoner—it is endorsed "Mr. J. Hears, Morden Brickfield, Morden," and "J. Mears. Morden Brickfield, Morden"—I am a contractor, and Mears is a brick-maker; he was mentioned to me by the prisoner, who said it was the nearest brickfield to the estate—the prisoner was introduced to me by Mr. Bromley, and was to erect some farm cottages at Morden—I was to find the timber and bricks, and the prisoner the time and labour—no work has actually been done, bat it was arranged it should be by him—I do not know his handwriting—I know nothing of this account, showing that 14l. 17s. 6d. has been expended out of 20l.

JESSE MEARS . I live at 1, Mostyn Gardens, Merton, and am manager of the Morden Brickfield—neither of the endorsements on this cheque are mine, nor were they placed there by my authority or permission.

Cross-examined. The prisoner paid me 6l. 6s. 9d. for bricks, and I gave him this receipt produced, marked as it is at the police-court—I first saw him about the end of January or beginning of February in reference to this matter—I think the only conversation I had with him was when he first came and asked me to give him quotations on paper that he might show it to the firm—I gave him one signed—all his handwriting that I have seen was when he left his address at the office—I know nothing as to the means expended by him—I have never seen this account, not even at the police-court—I know nothing of this account—I never saw it before.

Re-examined. Since March 25th he has never paid me any sums except the 6l. 6s. 9d.

WILLIAM BOLTON . I am manager of the Balham Branch of the London and South-Western Bank—the prisoner came to the bank at the end of April, and presented this cheque for 20l.—it was endorsed "Mr. J. Mears, Morden Brickfield, Morden"—I said that I could not exchange it for him as the endorsement was irregular—he took it away, and brought it again endorsed "J. Mears, Morden Brickfield, Morden"—I authorised my cashier to cash it—it was crossed, but we were making a new business and usually oblige people in the neighbourhood with change in order to obtain their accounts.

ALFRED HOFFMAN . I am a clerk in the London and South-Western Bank, Balhum branch, which has been opened three or four years—I cashed this cheque, I believe, and handed the money to the prisoner.

WILLIAM JOHN BROMLEY . I am a licensed victualler ot the Gladstone, Plough Barge, Clapham Junction—I have seen the prisoner write—I should not think the writing to this cheque is the prisoner's, unless he disguised his writing.

Cross-examined. This "Scott" is very much like his.

ALFRED LEECH (Police Sergeant V). I saw the prisoner on 19th May at the Surrey Tavern—I asked him if his name was Scott—he said "Yes"

I took him into oustody on this charge, and read the warrant to him—he said "All right, I have the receipts at home for bricks I have purchased for Mr. Mears"—when charged he made no reply.

The prisoner received a good character.


22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-706
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

706. WILLIAM SCOTT was again indicted for feloniously forging and uttering an endorsement on an order for the payment of 10l., with intent to defraud.

CHARLES AMBROSE WILKES . I gave this cheque to the prisoner, and instructed him to hand it to Mr. Mears for bncks to be delivered, and endorsed it in that way—I crossed the cheque—the estate was close to the brickfield, and I thought the prisoner was an honest man—he could not get the bricks without he had the money—no bricks have ever been used.

JESSE MEARS . This endorsement is not my writing, nor written by my authority—the date is 24th March—the prisoner ordered bricks and paid cash on the 25th, and commenced drawing at once—they amounted to 6l. 6s. 9d.

HENRY TOWNSEND . I live at the King's Arms, Upper Tooting—the prisoner came at the latter end of March with this cheque, which I cashed for him—it was endorsed as it is now.

Cross-examined. I had known him five years; he has always borne a good character—he and his family lived within a stone's throw of my place—if it had been a forged cheque I would have known where to find him—I knew he had started building some houses and I thought he had got the cheque to pay wages and get material, and I cashed it directly, knowing him always as a respectable young man.

Re-examined. It did not strike me as strange that it was payable to another person—I did not know Mr. Mears.


Before Mr. Recorder.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-707
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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707. EDWARD PETTY (50) , Feloniously forging and uttering an endorsement on an order for the payment of 10l., with intent to defraud.

MR. MARSHALL HALL Prosecuted; MR. AGABEG Defended.

BENJAMIN PRESTON HARRIS . I am a farmer—I sell vegetable produce at the Borough Market—the prisoner entered my service last November as manager—he received a salary—he had no authority to sign my name—I do business with Mr. Morl—this cheque for 1l. 10s. of 2nd May, 1885, signed "Morl and Co., payable to P. B. Harris," was due to me—I never received the money—I did not authorise the prisoner to endorse it "P. B. Harris"—this other cheque for 2l. 6s. 9d., of 28th April, is from the same people—the endorsement is similar to that on the other cheque, but it is not Petty's writing—I have not had the money—I was examined at the police-court—I was cross-examined by the prisoner's counsel—I asked the prisoner if Morl's account was paid, and he said no—I went to Mr. Morl—when I found his account was paid I gave orders if Morl's account was not handed over the prisoner was not to be paid his wages—I asked the prisoner to make a list of accounts he had collected and not accounted for—he made this list produced—it is my writing on one side and the prisoner's on the other—the list contains these two cheques and others.

Cross-examined. The prisoner's salary commenced at 26s. 6d. a week and porterage—his duty was to sell the produce—I gave him instructions

not to sell on credit—he did so to push the business—I did not deduct his salary on that account—I did deduct his salary on account of 15l. he was wrong—on 7th March I raised his wages to 2l., and stopped 15s. a week to clear off this old account.

WILLIAM BUSHBY MORL . I am a florist and seedsman, of 1 and 2, Fenchurch Street—I gave the cheque for 1l. 10s. to the prisoner for Mr. Harris—the other cheque for 2l. 6s. 9d. is also payable to P. B. Harris for goods supplied by him to sell on commission—both cheques have been paid through my account.

Cross-examined. The prisoner asked me if I could let him have some money, as they were very short—I said "How much do you want?"—he said "A sovereign will do"—I looked at the book, I saw it did not come to a great deal more, and I said "You may as well balance up and I will give you a cheque for the balance," which was 30s.—he did not ask for a sovereign for himself, nor use the words "for my wages."

ALFRED HOLDER . I am a licensed victualler, of the London Bridge Tavern—the prisoner is an occasional customer—I cashed this cheque payable to P. B. Harris, for the prisoner—I did not see him endorse it, out it was not endorsed till after I handed it back to him—the colour of the ink is mauve, the same as I keep in my bar.

JOHN SAUNDERS . I am a greengrocer of 7, Miles Lane, City—I cashed this cheque (2l. 6s. 9d. ) for the prisoner—it was endorsed as it is now.

GEORGE THOMAS MARTIN (Police Sergeant M). On 16th May I went with Mr. Harris, jun., to 22, Abinger Road, Deptford—I told the prisoner he would be charged with embezzling money, and produced the cheques for 1l. 10s. and 2l. 6s. 9d., and the list marked D (Of paid amounts not accounted for)—the prisoner pressed Mr. Harris not to give him into custody, but to let him come up in the morning, and then said, "Yes, it is quite right for 30s., not more, not the 2l. 6s. 9d., I did not write that on the back; I do not deny I had the money, but he has been stopping my wages for about six weeks"—he also said, "That is the list Mr. Harris asked me for, and that is all the money I had, cheques and all."

Witness for the Defence.

EDWIN ISAAC . The prisoner was in my employ before he went to Mr. Harris's for nearly 18 months as foreman—he endorsed hundreds of my cheques—he had a general authority to do so; it is a usual thing in our line—he bore the best character for honesty, and as soon as he is out of this he can come to my employ.

Cross-examined. He left me to go to a Mr. Snell—I sold my business about thrae years ago


22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-708
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

Related Material

708. The said EDWARD PETTY was again indicted for embezzling another sum of money of his said master; also for forging and uttering an endorsement on an order for the payment of 2l. 6s. 9d., upon which no evidence was offered.


22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-709
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

709. WALTER GEORGE TILLMAN (23) , Feloniously marrying Elizabeth Emma Barton during the life of his wife.

ELLEN WALLIS . I am the wife of Edward Wallis, of Snowshelds—I was present when my stepdaughter, Elizabeth Ambrose Wallis, was married to the prisoner at All Saints' Church, Newington, on November 19th, 1879—they afterwards lived with me, and then left me—she has

buried two children, she has one living, and she is pregnant now—she is here.

Cross-examined. You slept with her the night before you were given in charge.

ELIZABETH EMMA BARLOW . I live at 43, King Street—I went through the ceremony of marriage with the prisoner on 31st May—I believed him to be single, but he did not say that he was a bachelor—I had known him two years—I found out this day fortnight that he was married, when he was given in custody by his wife.

, JOHN BROGAN (Police Sergeant). I took the prisoner on 11th June—I have been to All Saints' Church, Newington, and compared the certificates of both marriages—they are quite correct.

Prisoner's Defence. I am sorry I have done Elizabeth Barlow any wrong; what I did was in perfect ignorance. I saw a case in the paper of a gentleman marrying his mother's servant, and because he was under age he got a divorce. Before she was married a month she was confined. I had a row, and the mother took me to lodge where her daughter was lodging; that is how I got into this mess. She has been a corse to me, but I am very sorry I have done any harm to the little girl, and will do all I can to rectify it. I told her I had a little boy and we should have to keep him. I should have fetched him away from my first wife.

ELLEN WALLIS (Re-examined). The prisoner and his wife always lived together—she has not been guilty of any misconduct to be a curse to him.

Cross-examined. Your wife was pregnant three months and a half before you were married, and you always owned that it was by you; it was known at the time of the marriage.

GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury.Six Months' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-710
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence; Not Guilty > directed

Related Material

710. FREDERICK MORGAN (60) and ELIZA MORGAN , Unlawfully obtaining 48cwt. and 8 cwt. of waste paper by false pretences. Other Counts for conspiracy.



No evidence was offered against ELIZA MORGAN.— NOT GUILTY .

FREDERICK KERBY . I am one of the superintendents to the Holborn Restaurant—I knew Morgan in 1876 in the name of Morgan.

WOOLF HENRY COHEN . I live at Aldershot—in June, 1883,1 saw this advertisement in a newspaper. (This was for waste paper to he sent to Reynolds's Paper Works, E.C). I got this reply, enclosing this pink paper. (Giving the prices of waste paper). This pink paper is a circular Leaded, "Reynolds's Cheap Paper Works"—I got another letter of 18th June in this envelope. (This acknowledged the receipt of a sample of waste paper, giving the price per ton for it). I the n got this letter of 19th June (Enclosing references)—I did not know that they were giving Simpson Morgan, the prisoner's son, as a reference—on 14th June I sent paper which came to 2l. 17s. and received this letter: "June 22. We have received 44 bags of waste paper which shall receive our proper attention"—on 20th June I sent several bags of white paper and 10 bags of brown and got this letter. (This was from 2A, Chester Street, Kennington Lane, complaining of the paper sent being damp and dirty, and only worth 2l. a ton). I called at Queen Street and saw some man, not the prisoner—I did not get any

money—I also went to Chester Street—I then got this letter of July 5th, (Acknowledging paper total 6l. 11s. 5d., and deducting 4l. 12s. 6d. for carriage bringing it down to 1l. 16s. 7d., for which a post-office order was enclosed). I have not cashed that order—I have been several times to Queen Street—they said at 10 a.m. that Mr. Reynolds would be there at 1, but when I got there he was not there—I employed a solicitor who County-courted him, but the Judge would not hear it because they could not serve the summons on him—I was told that the name of Morgan was over the shop—I parted with my paper because I thought I was dealing with honest people, and the advertisement stated that 22,000l. worth of waste paper was wanted—I only got this one post-office order—the paper was worth 6l. a ton.

Cross-examined. Buying and selling waste paper is a very small part of my business—I buy left-off military uniforms and hats and gold lace—I think the letter complained that the paper I sent was not equal to the sample—I did not send up any pith helmets or old hats and gowns—I bought the paper at Government offices—I think the prisoner's prices were a little higher at the time than elsewhere—the 1l. 6s. was for the sample; and since the defendant has been in custody a man came down and wanted to pay me 16l. and 1l. towards my expenses—I did not pay the carriage; that was 5s.

Re-examined. With all these complaints about the quality they figured it out at 4l. 12s. 6d. after deducting the carriage.

JAMES FROST (Policeman L). In 1883 I was working as a printer in Stratford and saw this advertisement in the Daily Telegraph headed "Waste paper"—I wrote to the address, Reynolds's Mill Paper Works, Kennington Park, and received a reply which I have destroyed—I then sent six hundredweight of brown wrappers addressed to Reynolds and Co. with a letter, the value was 42s. according to the price list I had received, and I paid 6s. carriage—I did not receive the money, and wrote for it again—I received a reply which I have destroyed—two months or more afterwards I received another letter from Reynolds, in consequence of which I took up nine hundredweight of mixed paper and one hundredweight of waste paper in a van—I went to 2A, Chester Street and saw a man, and in consequence of what he told me I took it to Stannery Street, and the prisoner walked away from the door just as I got there without speaking to me—I delivered the paper to his daughter, who has been acquitted, and waited two hours to see the prisoner—he did not come, and I was obliged to go—I called again and saw Miss Reynolds, but got no money—I went again three weeks afterwards and saw her again, and on another day I met the prisoner at the corner of the Horns, Kennington and asked him for the money—he said "What for?"—I said "Waste paper"—he took down my name and address and said that Mr. Reynolds had been dead some time and a man named Morgan had got the business, and he would see the solicitor of the deceased Mr. Reynolds and see if they would allow me any money—I then addressed a letter to Mr. Reynolds, Stannery Street, Kennington, but I did not put the word deceased on the envelope—I received a reply on a memorandum of Morgan and Co. and have written about a dozen other letters, but have never received any reply or any money—seeing the advertisement I thought I was dealing with honest men.

Cross-examined. The advertisement in the Telegraph induced me to send

up the paper, I had never sold wrappers before—my employer gave them to me as a perquisite and let me have the rest at 2s. per hundredweight.

REV. HENRY DE ROMESTING . I am the vicar of Stony Stratford—in September last I saw an advertisement like this, and wrote to Reynolds at the address given and received in reply a pink paper similar to this—I sent a hundredweight of paper to that address, which, according to the price-list, was worth 6s. or 7s., I never received any money—I sent the paper up because I believed that pink paper.

Cross-examined. I wanted to get rid of my waste-paper, and expected to be paid for it—that is the reason I sent it up.

GEORGE WILLIS . I live at 10, Chatham Street, Walworth—I was in the prisoner's employ in 1883 in Queen Street, Kennington, which is now called Srannery Street—I have seen him write on several occasions—these documents "G. H.," "J. L.," "M.," "N.," and "O." are his writing to the best of my belief.

Cross-examined. I was there about 18 months altogether, taking the three persons I was with, Frank Morgan first for about three weeks, then with the prisoner, and then with Mr. Whiteman—from four to five people were employed there, and to the best of my belief a bond-fide business was carried on—there were carts, and wages were paid—Mr. Whiteman had the business in August and September, 1884, and carried it on in the name of Reynolds and Co.

Re-examined. I was not in the defendant's employment in August.

ROBERT GROOM . I live at South Ealing—in August, 1884, I saw an advertisement similar to this, and wrote to Reynolds's Paper Works, and received a pink circular and a request asking me to forward a shilling for a sack—I never went to the place of business.

HARRY JUDGES . I live at 39, Westmacott Street, Camberwell, and am agent to the owners of No. 81, which I let to the prisoner in February, 1884, for three years at 32l. a year in the name of Reynolds—he continued in possession till September, 1884—he was in possession in August—I only received one quarter's rent—when he left in September the rent was still owing—I applied for it but did not receive it.

Cross-examined. Gordon and Co., who succeeded him, paid me the rent—I was at my shop, two or three doors off, and can say that Reynolds was carrying on the business in August—I can't say that he did not sell it to Mr. Whiteman as early as July.

GEORGE WALDOCK (Police Sergeant L). On 23rd April I saw the prisoner leaving Langston Road—I asked him if his name was Morgan—he said "Yes"—I said "I am a police officer, and am going to take you in custody on a warrant for conspiring with another person in obtaining a quantity of waste-paper from Mr. Young"—he said "I know nothing about it"—I read the warrant to him, and he said "I have no recollection of Mr. Young"—I said "I recognise you as the man who had the waste-paper business in Chester Street, Kennington"—he said "I took a place there for my son"—I said "Which son?"—he said "Horace"—I said "Where is he?"—he said "Dead"—I said "You also had a place in Stannery Street?"—he said "My son had a place there"—I took him to the station and showed him letters "B" and "D"—he said "I do not know why you are asking me these questions and showing me these papers; I decline to say anything until I

have had the advice of my solicitor"—I searched him, and found on him 30l. in notes, 1l. 9s. in gold and silver, and some cards and memoranda,

ROBERT BRYANT . I am an auctioneer, of 200, Kennington Park Road—in April, 1883, I let the prisoner a shed at the back of my house at 7s. a week, in the name of Reynolds—I am not certain when he left, but the name was changed in October the same year—he came back in the following February and left in October, 1884—he gave me no notice that the business was transferred to Whiteman.

Cross-examined. During his tenancy there was a perfectly legitimate trade carried on; people worked there—the warehouse was in Stannary Street.

The RECORDER considered that there was no case to go to the Jury.


22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-711
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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711. EDWIN GOSLING (43) PLEADED GUILTY to forging and uttering a printed ticket, purporting to be a railway passenger ticket.— Four Months' Imprisonment without Hard Labour. And

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-712
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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712. ABEL ALLEN (28) [Pleaded guilty; see original trial image.] to breaking and entering the warehouse of Thomas William Capron, and stealing therein a sideboard and other goods.— Eighteen Months' Hard Labour.

Before Mr. Justice Day.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-714
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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714. ROBERT GARRARD (22). was indicted for a rape on Adelaide Jewell.

MR. WILMOT Prosecuted; MR. WARBURTON Defended.


22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-714a
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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714. LEONARD CAMBRAY (44) , Unlawfully taking Emily Elizabeth Mold, a girl under the age of 16, out of the possession and against the will of her father.


The details of this case are unfit for publication.

GUILTY .— Eighteen Months' Hard Labour.

22nd June 1885
Reference Numbert18850622-715
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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715. WILLIAM CRONIN (38) , Breaking and entering the church of St. Thomas's, Lambeth, with intent to steal.

MR. ISAACSON Prosecuted.

JOHN HENRY PIGOTT . I am an hotel-keeper, of 160, Westminster Bridge Road, and one of the wardens of St. Thomas's Church, West-minster Bridge Road—at half-past 10 on Wednesday morning, 13th May, I went to the church and found a window had been broken open and the church entered, an iron bar removed, two money boxes knocked away from the wall and broken open, and then as the vestry door could not be opened the vestry window had been broken, a cupboard in the vestry broken, and a box removed from the cupboard; there were only books in the box—I had last seen the articles safe on the Sunday.

ALFRED WILLIAM JONES . I am the verger of St. Thomas's Church and live at 50, Lopes Street—I was at the church on the Monday and left everything safe—I keep the keys at my house—on the morning of the 13th I was disturbed by the police at 3 o'clock—I went to the church and found somebody had been in it—the window was cut out and the money-boxes knocked over—I found the prisoner at the station.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. The church is open every morning from half-past 9 to 10 for official purposes, for anybody who wants letters, &c, signed by the clergy—the church was in such a state that anybody openiug it could see some one had been in.

WILLIAM STEVEN (Policeman L 187). On the 13th about 2.15 I climbed over a low wall, 6 or 7 feet high, at the side of St. Thomas's Church, believing some one had got over—I examined the premises, heard a noise at the left-hand side, turned round and saw the prisoner coming out of the vestry window with his feet first—I got over the wall, got hold of his feet, and pulled him out of the window—I asked him what he was doing there—he said, "We live here"—I said, "I will take you into custody"—he said, "G—blind me, will you"—we struggled—another man came out, and I having no assistance he got away—I searched the prisoner at the station and found on him these two knives used for cutting lead windows.

Cross-examined. The inspector examined the church—you were not making water when I first came up to you.

By the JURY. It was a large window; he had cut it out.

JOSEPH ASHLEY (Inspector L). I met the constable, and in consequence went and examined the church—I called the verger; he gave me the key—two windows were broken, the church window out away, and the vestry window broken—there was room enough for a man to get in—two subscription-boxes were broken.

The prisoner stated that he was drunk, and went to sleep, thinking he was at home.

GUILTY . He then PLEADED GUILTY to a conviction of felony on 9th February, 1885.— Twelve Months' Hard Labour.

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