Old Bailey Proceedings.
18th May 1885
Reference Number: t18850518

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Old Bailey Proceedings front matter.
18th May 1885
Reference Numberf18850518

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Sessions Paper.








Short-hand Writers to the Court,








Law Booksellers and Publishers.



On the Queen's Commission of



The City of London,





Held on Monday, May 18th, 1885, and following days.

BEFORE the RIGHT HON. ROBERT NICHOLAS FOWLER, M.P., LORD MAYOR of the City of London; the Hon. Sir HENRY HAWKINS, Knt., one of the Justices of Her Majesty's High Court of Justice; Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN, Knt., M.P., SIR THOMAS DAKIN, Knt., Sir ANDREW LUSK, Bart., M.P., Sir THOMAS SCAMBLER OWDEN, Knt., and Sir HENRY EDMUND KNIGHT, Knt., Aldermen of the said City; Sir THOMAS CHAMBERS, Knt., Q.C., M.P., Recorder of the said City; Sir REGINALD HANSON, Knt., JOSEPH SAVORY, Esq., EDWARD JAMES GRAY , Esq., DAVID EVANS , Esq., and PHINEAS COWAN, Esq., other of the Aldermen of the said City; Sir WILLIAM THOMAS CHARLEY, Knt., Q.C., D.C.L., Common Serjeant of the said City; and ROBERT MALCOLM KERR, Esq., LL.D., Judge of the Sheriffs' Court: Her Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer, and General Gaol Delivery, holden for the said City, and Judges of the Central Criminal Court.

JAMES WHITEHEAD, Esq., Alderman,









A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—a dagger (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoner's age.


OLD COURT.—Monday, May 18th, 1885.

Before Mr. Justice Hawkins.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-533
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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533. JOHN SCHUSTER , Feloniously setting fire to a workhouse, persons being therein.

MR. GORDON Prosecuted; MR. COSTELLOE Defended.

GEORGE AYLWARD . I am master of Kensington Workhouse; I reside there—on 4th March I was aroused about 4 a.m. by a man calling out "Fire" above me—I went up to where the fire was in a water-closet which was used as a store-room for counterpanes, &c.; about 12 or 13 counterpanes were there—the damage was about 10l.—the woodwork was much burnt, and the fire had got a good firm hold—the prisoner has been an occasional inmate 13 or 14 years; he would be away for five or six months, and then turn up again—he is quite right in his mind so far as I can judge—the counterpanes were all ablaze when I got there.

Cross-examined. I did not know that the prisoner had been an inmate of the lunatic ward; I know it now but was astonished when I heard it—I reported the fire next morning to the Guardians in writing; I have not got it; in substance it was, "At 4.30 a.m. I was called up by a cry of Fire,' and found a man without shoes or stockings on vigorously applying the fire hose, and that we had had a narrow escape, for in 10 minutes the house would have been in a blaze"—I reported that it was accidental, as I could not come to any other conclusion—I have no other reason now for supposing it was not accidental except that the prisoner told me he did it—he took his discharge on Friday, 24th April, and gave himself up on the 26th.

Re-examined. I first heard he was in the lunatic ward a few days ago.

EALES HAWKEY (Policeman A 473). I was on duty in Kensington Gardens on the afternoon of 26th April—the prisoner came to me and said, "I wish to give myself up, for I set fire to the Kensington Workhouse seven weeks ago, and I have had no sleep"—I said, "How did

you do that?"—he said, "I got out of bed at 9 o clock in the evening, went up in the back room, and set fire to a counterpane"—I said, "Why did you do that?"—he replied, "I have been treated badly, and called by the inmates a German pauper, and told to go back to my own country, and I thought I would burn them"—I took him to the station.

Cross-examined. He said if I inquired I should find it was right—he did not seem excited, just the same as he is now, I thick he is worse now if any different—it was about 5 o'clock when he came to me—it was not singular, we see plenty in Hyde Park who have had no sleep.

THOMAS VILE . I am labour master at Kensington Union—on 6th March I cautioned the prisoner for being in a place where he ought not, and I ordered him away—he said, "There has been one little fire, two little fires, but the next one will be a big one"—I reported that to the master at 9 o'clock.

Cross-examined. I had known the prisoner about 12 months—I was not aware that he had been in the lunatic ward; he was handed over to the infirmary as a patient—I did not know of his trying to cut his throat—I have not heard paupers talk about or threaten fires; that was the only one, and as a matter of duty I reported it.

Witnesses for the Defence.

HENRY PERCY POTTER . I am medical superintendent of the infirmary and medical officer of the workhouse—I have been there four years; during that time the prisoner has been under my care, I cannot say how often—it was for weakness and debility on one or two occasions—on Wednesday, 22nd December last, he was brought over to me from the workhouse in an excited condition—he had several delusions; he fancied the nurses were in love with him, or that he was in love with them; he never came across them—he refused his food whilst in the infirmary, saying it was poisoned; that is evidence of acute insanity—the attack in December lasted two or three days—he left the infirmary on 9th January—he is a peculiar kind of man, and from a medical point of view not right in his appearance; he is erratic—he is not always insane—his mind is somewhat disordered; he is an eccentric man, and liable to attacks from time to time—he was very sleepless.

Cross-examined. His delusions lasted while he was in the infirmary—we put him in the lunatic ward—he had no delusion when he went out; he was a fairly responsible person when he went out, and would know what he was about, and whether he was doing right or wrong.

Re-examined. He was not bad enough to be sent to the county asylum—at the workhouse he would be taken care of before any accident happened.

JOHN DUFFIELD . I am the lunatic attendant at the Kensington Infirmary—the prisoner has been more than once under my care—I remember the attack spoken of; he had one before that—I have been at the infirmary about 18 months—the prisoner has had attacks within 12 months—he was under the delusion that his food was poisoned—the attacks would last four or five hours at a time, then he would cool down, and it would come on again twice in the day for a few days, and then go off all right again; the attacks were intermittent—I have had a number of insane patients—he could not sleep well, and was rather restless at night—I understood he was suicidal and had made an attempt; he was not committed to my charge as suicidal, but as necessary to be under

observation—I regarded him as a man who might do something very dangerous if not watched.

Cross-examined. He was dangerous when he had his attacks—at one time I considered him dangerous enough to be sent to an asylum, but it wore off—that is the case sometimes—when discharged, to all appearance he was in his proper mind.


THIRD COURT.—Monday, May 18th, 1885.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-534
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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534. HENRY BENNETT (22) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.


ELIZABETH YOUNG . I am the wife of Joseph Young—on 29th April I was attending at the Spread Eagle, Broad Street, and served a man with two half-pints of ale; he called in the prisoner, who was standing at the door, they drank the ale, and the first man paid with a shilling—he asked me to but two dozen quart bottles—I put it in the till, where there was only one other shilling, a very plain one, which I had just taken—the prisoner then called for two half-pints, and paid with a shilling—I said "Are you aware this is bad?"—he said "No"—I looked in the till and found that the other was bad—I sent for a policeman, and said to the prisoner "Have you any more?"—he said "What the b—h—do you mean?"—I said "I mean that if you have any more like this you have come to the wrong house"—the other man went out and did not return—I jumped over the counter, closed the door, and put my back against it for 10 minutes, till a policeman came—I gave the two bad coins to him—I bent this one with my teeth.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I told the other man I did not require the bottles he said "Give me two half-pints of ale." and then you came to the door and said "Won't they have them?"—I presumed he meant the bottles—the plain shilling in the till was good.

By the COURT. I never saw the bottles, or any basket or barrow.

GEORGE HUNTLEY (Policeman E 412). I was called to the Spread Eagle, and the prisoner was given into my custody—he made no reply to the charge—I searched him in the public-house and found on him this bad shilling and a good sixpence—I took him to the station—these two shillings were handed to me.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am examiner of coins to Her Majesty's Mint—these coins are bad, and from different moulds—a goods coin cannot be crumpled up in this way by the teeth.

Prisoner's Defence. I got into company with a man who had some bottles. I had spent all my money but 6d., and as I had to ride home I sold him my muffler for 2s. I did not know they were bad, but I found they were when I went to the public-house, but I never attempted to move.

ELIZABETH YOUNG (Re-examined). He threatened to put his wooden leg through me—no sample bottle was exhibited, and there was no barrow in the street.

GUILTY .— Nine Months' Hard Labour.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-535
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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535. MATTHEW MARTIN (24) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.


WILLIAM DOBSON . I keep the King and Princess of Wales, Brook Street, Piccadilly—on 27th April, about 5 p.m., I served the prisoner with some drink, which came to 1 1/2 d.—he gave me a half-crown, and I gave him two shillings and 4 1/2 d. in bronze—he laid the half-crown on the beer-engine and it slipped into a measure in which was some beer—I picked it out and gave him the change—after he was gone I found it was bad, and put it at the back of the bar—he came again at 7 p.m. for half a pint of ale, and tendered a penny—he then asked for a pipe—I refused to give him one, being short—he then asked for another half-pint of beer, and gave me a half-crown—I broke a piece out of it in a small snitch and told him it was bad—he said that it was paid to him in his wages—he wrote down his address, "Charles Brown, 13, Brompton Place, Knightsbridge"—I gave him in custody, and followed to the station—I heard coin falling between some wire-work and a window at the back of 105, Piccadilly—I picked it up immediately—he kicked the policeman about his legs.

DANIEL HAY . I am groom at 108, Piccadilly—on 2nd April I was in Mr. Dodson's house, about 5 o'clock, and saw the prisoner come in—he asked for some beer, and paid with a half-crown, which slid over into a pewter pot—Mr. Dobson fetched me at 7 o'clock, and I followed to the station and saw the prisoner throw a half-crown from his left hand into Mr. Goldsmith's area, close to where I am in service—it fell into the wire grating which saves the window from being broken—Mr. Dodson picked it up, this is it.

JOHN GILKS (Policeman G 370). On April 27th Mr. Dodson gave the prisoner into my custody—I searched him and found two shillings, a sixpence, and eight pence, all good—going to the station I saw him drop a half-crown between the wire netting and the window of 105, Piccadilly—I saw Mr. Dodson pick it up, and while he was doing so the prisoner attempted to kick his face, but I was holding him and prevented it—I called another constable, and the prisoner kicked him several times on his legs and tried to kick me—Mr. Dodson gave me these three coins—I marked one of them with a "3"—the prisoner gave his name Jacob Hyams—I asked him where he lived—he said "I shall not tell"—I said "You have just thrown the coin away"—he said "You did not see me throw it way"—I said "I did."

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . These coins are all bad, and the two uttered are from one mould.

Prisoner's Defence. I had won 7s. 6d. in Petticoat Lane by a purse trick, and I won a bet on a horse called Fireball, and got paid six halfcrowns. The man who paid me that has too much reputation to give me bad money, and therefore I conclude that I got it in Petticoat Lane.

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Hard Labour.

OLD COURT.—Tuesday, May 19th, 1885.

Before Mr. Justice Hawkins.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-536
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

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536. GEORGE DENTON (55) was charged on the Coroner's Inquisition only with the manslaughter of Susannah Denton.

MR. DOUGLAS, for the Prosecution, offered no evidence on the Inquisition, the Grand Jury having ignored the bill.


18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-537
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

537. HARRIET ADAMS (34) was indicted for and charged on the Coroner's Inquisition with, feloniously killing and slaying William Adams.

MR. POLAND Prosecuted.

JOSEPH GURNEY . I am a fitter, and live at 7, Cuba Street, Millwall—the prisoner lived at No. 5 with a man named William Adams as man and wife—they had a child about eight years old—Adams was a labourer and about 33 years of age—he was a friend of mine—on Saturday, 25th April, I was out with him from about 8 up to about a quarter to 10—we were at the Torrington Arms, and left about that time—he appeared to me to be sober—we had been drinking together—I had seen the prisoner in the afternoon—she had no marks on her face then—about 11.30 that night I went to Mr. Wilson's surgery, and there saw the body of Adams—he was then dead or dying—he died before I left—as I was leaving the surgery I saw the prisoner going towards the surgery—I did not speak to her or stop to notice her.

By the COURT. They lived on good terms for what I know.

EMMA GURNEY . I am the wife of the last witness—on Saturday night, 25th April, about 10 o'clock, the prisoner went with me to the Torrington Arms—at that time she had no injuries—I did not see that she had been drinking—we did not go inside the Torrington Arms—we saw Adams through the window—we then went down the road together and went to the butcher's, and she got some meat for Adams's supper—I left her and she went home—about half an hour afterwards, after 11, I saw her against her own door—she was then very much injured about the face—she said to me "Oh. Mrs. Gurney, look at my face"—it was very much swollen, and she was bleeding a little at the nose—she said that her husband had been knocking her and kicking her in the face—she asked me if I could see my husband and ask him to see if he could find Adams, for she did not know where he had gone to—I did so, and shortly after I went with the prisoner to Mr. Wilson's surgery—she said some one had told her that her husband had broken a blood-vessel—she was crying—we found Adams at the surgery, lying there dead—she fell down upon him and said "Oh, Willie, my dear Willie"—then she looked and saw the hole in his side and said "He has been stabbed"—she was crying very much—she then went home with me.

SARAH ANN POCOCK . I am a widow, and live at 3. Cuba Street, next door but one to the prisoner—I had known her and her husband about 12, months—on Saturday night, 25th April, about 11 o'clock, I was going up Cuba Street, and saw them coming down the street towards their own house, from the direction of the Torrington Arms—they were a little distance from each other, the prisoner was in front—I heard him say to her "You have left the place the whole of the evening"—she said "A d—d good job too"—they then went towards their house, and I lost sight of them—about 12 o'clock I was at my gate and saw the prisoner coming along with Mrs. Gurney and Mrs. Shepherd coming from Mr. Wilson's surgery—she said to me "Look what my husband has done to my face"—I saw that she had a dreadful face (when I saw her about

11 o'clock she was all right)—she said her husband was dead—he had broken a blood-vessel.

STANLEY MARSH . I live at 3, Cuba Street—I am 15 years old—on Saturday night, 25th April, about 11 o'clock, I was standing at our door, and saw a man and woman; I did not know who they were—they went into No. 5—they were asking each other where they had been—they were not what I call quarrelling, they were talking rather sharp to each other—they went in and shut the door—about a minute or two afterwards I heard a little girl scream in the front room of No. 5, "Don't, father!"—shortly after the same man came out; he had his hands to his right side as he passed me—I heard a gurgling in his inside, and he was breathing rather hard—he went towards Mr. Wilson's surgery—about two minutes afterwards the prisoner came out of No. 5 crying—she went in to Mrs. Willatt's, No. 4, and I saw no more.

MARY ANN WILLATTS . I am a widow, and live at 4, Cuba Street—on this night, about 11 o'clock, I heard Mr. and Mrs. Adams pass my door—they seemed to be talking to each other very mildly—they went indoors—about a minute or two after as I was in my front room ground-floor I heard them talking very loud, and I heard a rustling noise as if they were struggling—I did not hear what was said; I heard both their voices—I heard the child scream—about live minutes afterwards I heard the street door open and shut again, and a man's step, and about 10 minutes afterwards the prisoner came in to my house and showed me her face, and said, "Look at my face; look how he has beaten me, and then he knocked me down and kicked me"—her face was dreadfully swollen and bleeding—I persuaded her to go indoors and bathe her face—she left me and went into her house—a few minutes afterwards she sent for me—I went in—she said that some one had come for her to go to the doctor's to see him, he had broken a blood-vessel—I persuaded her to go—she said, "Can I go with my face like this?"—I said, "You had better go," and she went—I did not go with her; I stayed back to pacify the child.

MARY ANN SCOTES . I live with my husband at 5, Cuba Street—the prisoner, her husband and child, lived there; no one else lived in the house—I and my husband were out that night—about half-past 10 I saw her husband standing looking up the street with his hand on the door-post—as far as I know he was sober—at a quarter to 12 o'clock I came home—I went in and saw the prisoner crying very bitterly—she said her husband had broken a blood-vessel, and she would be left—I saw that her face was very much injured; she had a black eye, and was disfigured—I think she was not quite sober—they were proprietors of the house, and we were their tenants.

MARY WILLOCKS . I am married, and live at 51, Mellish Street, Mill-wall—about 11 o'clock on this Saturday night I was in the Westferry Road—a man passed me bleeding from the mouth—I did not know him before—he was walking by himself—I saw him go to Mr. Wilson's—I saw him drop on the step, and he was taken in.

FRANCIS ABBOTT . I live at 18, Charles Street, Westferry Road, Mill-wall—I am a butcher's assistant—on this Saturday night, about a quarter past 11 o'clock, I was standing at my master's shop—I saw a man s✗aggering along towards Mr. Wilson's surgery—I did not know him—I saw him fall down—I went to his assistance—I saw some blood on his mouth—he did not speak—he was taken in and attended to.

JOHN DUNSTAN (Police Inspector K). About 12.30 on the morning of the 26th April I went to Mr. Wilson's surgery and there found Adams dead—I saw a wound on his right side, between the second and third ribs—from what I heard I went to 5, Cuba Street and saw the prisoner there in the front room with some of her neighbours—her head was bandaged, and her face was very much disfigured with bruises—the little girl Edith was in bed—I have a memorandum of what passed, which I made the same day—I was in plain clothes; I had a constable in uniform with me—I told her who I was—she told me she was Mrs. Adams—I asked her if she could throw any light on the affair—she said no—I said, "Tell me what you do know"—she then said, "I went out to do some shopping, and at about 20 minutes to 11 o'clock, on coming out of Mr. Lyons the corn dealer's shop, where I had called for my husband's collars that I had left on the counter, I saw my husband coming from the direction of the Torrington Arms—he came up to me and commenced to swear at me, but as I did not want to cause a commotion in the street I walked on first; on getting indoors he said, 'Where the b—h—have you been to?' I said, 'Only to get some steak for your supper.' He said, 'It's a b—lie,' and knocked me down in the room and kicked me, saying, 'Lie there, you b—s—.' He then went out, and I did not move for a moment or so, fearing he might come back, but I afterwards went into the street, where I saw Mrs. Gurney and Mrs. Willatts, and said to them, 'Look what he has done to me.' Some time after that some one came and told me that my husband had broken a blood-vessel, and was at Dr. Wilson's. I went round to see him, but could not get in, but I went round again and saw him." The child was awake at that time, and I asked her if she saw her father knock her mother down—she said, "Yes"—I said, "Did he do anything else?"—she said, "He kicked her, and then went out of the room"—I said, "Did you see your mother strike your father at all?"—she said, "No"—I asked the prisoner whether there was any one else in the house at the time she was assaulted other than herself, her husband and child—she said, "No"—I then searched the premises—I found blood on the oil-cloth and carpet in the same room, and two or three spots in the passage leading to the front door—the blood in each case had the appearance of having dropped from some one's face or nose; it was not in a pool—in a table-drawer in the adjoining kitchen I found a knife and two forks; the knife had an old smear of blood on the handle—I also found a larger knife on the dresser without blood; I produce them both—I found two collars on the table in the front room—I found a trace of blood from the street door to Mr. Wilson's surgery, a distance of 350 yards—I went back and took the prisoner to the station—I told her she would be charged on suspicion of causing the death of her husband, William Adams, by stabbing him in the chest—she made no reply—she was wearing an ulster, on the right breast of which I saw some blood; she said it had come from her nose—she had a cut on the temple, and her nose had bled—I did not see her for two or three hours after the occurrence—she said the blood in the house also came from her nose.

HENRY CLARK WILSON . I am a registered medical practitioner, and have a surgery at 44, Westferry Road, Mill wall—on Saturday night, 25th April, William Adams was brought there in a state of collapse; he could not speak—he was wounded on the right side of the chest between the second and third ribs; it was a stab going through his waistcoat and

two shirts; frothy blood was oozing out of the wound—he died within about 25 minutes—I made a post-mortem examination—the wound was a punctured one, penetrating the lungs for an inch and a quarter—there was a quantity of blood, it had flowed into the windpipe—he died from suffocation and fainting, from the effects of the stab—in my judgment the knife found on the dresser could not have produced the injury, it is broader than the length of the wound—the knife taken from the drawer would be more likely to produce it; on measurement it corresponded with the wound in the waistcoat and also with the wound in the chest; in my judgment that knife could have caused it—I think great violence must have been used in inflicting the blow—I examined the man's clothes, they were soaked in blood—I did not examine the pockets to see whether he had a knife—from the position of the wound I could not say whether it was self-inflicted or not—it is possible that he might have done it himself—if he was a left-handed man the blow could be struck with greater violence—I saw the prisoner; I did not dress her wounds; I saw that she was considerably bruised.

WILLIAM ADAMS . I live at 2, Canal Cottages, Gravesend—the deceased was my son; he was 33 years old—he was a left-handed man from his birth—he was not married to the prisoner, they had lived together nine or ten years.

COURTNEY THOMAS CHIVERS . I am the Coroner's officer—I saw the body of William Adams and his clothes at the mortuary—I examined the clothes, there was no knife in the pockets.

EDITH ADAMS . I am 8 years old, and lived at 8, Cuba Street with my father and mother—I was in bed and asleep on this Saturday night; I was awoke by their fighting—mother did not do anything to father, he knocked her down and kicked her—I saw father go out, I do not know whether there was anything the matter with him—he did not go into the kitchen, mother did, to take her hat in.

The prisoner in her defence denied having used any weapon, and alleged that her husband, when in drink, was very excitable.


NEW COURT.—Monday and Tuesday, May 18th and 19th, 1885.

Before Mr. Recorder.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-538
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

538. THOMAS HILL (40) and JOHN WEBB (62) were indicted (with JANE DAYUS , not in custody) for unlawfully conspiring to obtain 550l. by false pretences from the London and North-Western Railway Company, with intent to defraud.

MESSRS. GRAIN and METCALFE Prosecuted; MR. BESLEY appeared for Webb,


WILLIAM HENRY TUCKEY . I am parcels porter at Euston Station, in the service of the London and North-Western Railway Company—on 21st December, about 6 o'clock, I was on duty at the station booking parcels for the Scotch mail—a train goes out at 6.30—Hill came up to me at 6 o'clock and showed me a parcel, and said he wanted me to insure it for 550l.—he did not give me his name—it was an ordinary square parcel about the size of a small cigar box—I cannot tell whether I took it in my hand—I took it round to the clerk on duty, Mr. Whitewood; it passed out of my hands into his.

WALTER WHITEWOOD . I am parcels clerk at Euston Station, and was on duty on 21st December, 1883—I recollect the prisoner Hill being brought to my office by Tuckey—Hill had a parcel which he said he wanted me to insure for 550l.—I told him the price would be 33s.—he disputed the charge, saying he had brought a parcel previously and had not paid so much per hundred for it, having the same contents in it—after some discussion he paid it, and said he wanted it to go by the 6.30 mail train to Dublin—the length was about five or six inches—I weighed it, and it weighed under a pound—anything under a pound is put down as a pound—I entered it in this book, and he signed the name of "Thomas Hill"—I wrote the address, Wood's Hotel, Drummond Street—I handed it to another clerk, Waite.

Cross-examined. He must have mentioned the 6.30 train—I said before the Magistrate that he wanted it to go by the first train possible, and that I mentioned the 6.30—I am not sure that he mentioned the 6.30—that was the first train.

RICHARD WAITE . I am claims clerk at Euston Station—on December 21st, 1883, Whitewood brought me a parcel consigned to Webb, of Dublin, insured for 550l., with jewels inside—I took it to Brockway, one of the guards of the 6.30 train, and drew his particular attention to it.

ROBERT STANLEY AUGUSTUS BROCKWAY . I have been a guard on the North-Western about 32 years, and worked the 6.30 train out from Euston to Holy head on 21st December, 1883—before the train went out one of the clerks brought me an insured parcel addressed to Webb, Dublin—I signed for it and put it on the seat in the van, and when the train left put it in my locker and locked it up—the train stopped at Chester, and the parcel was safe locked up there when we left—as we were running into Holy head I unlocked the locker and took out the parcel, which was the only one I had for Dublin—I got out when the train stopped at 3 a.m. (the train was an hour late) with the parcel in my hand, and went towards the gangway of the steamer—in consequence of the crowd I came back to the van with the parcel, and put it on the seat—I got on the platform; a man spoke to me about a dog—I went a few yards from my van, got the dog out, then a lady spoke to me, and I was absent from my van from the time I put the parcel on the seat to the time I got back again, about two minutes—I saw the book with which I had covered the parcel, and thought the parcel was right—I went to the other end of the van, and assisted in getting one or two boxes out—soon after I looked for the parcel, it was gone—I communicated at once with the station-master and other officials there—we looked everywhere unsuccessfully for it.

Cross-examined by MR. WILLIAMS. A straw-coloured label was pasted on it as an insured packet, so that anybody who knew the custom of the Company would know by seeing the label on it it was an insured packet—there were a great many persons on the platform—the train was in about an hour before the boat started I think—my book could be seen from the platform, but I believe the parcel could not. (The witness before the Magistrate had said "It could not be reached from it, you could see it from the platform.") My impression is I said they could not see it; the book covered it up—I should say over 300 passengers got out of the train, and there would be sailors and men to carry the luggage on board—I

said "There was plenty of time while I was getting out the bag for anybody to take the parcel."

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. When the train runs in, people make for the gangway to get on board directly, and they clear off the platform directly—servants and others come to and fro to take the luggage off—the principal part of the passengers were walking towards the gangway when I went towards it—I carried the parcel in my hand, so that it could be seen by everybody—I stood a minute or two at the gangway to see if I could get on board; I could not, and when I came back very near all the passengers were at the gangway which leads off from the middle of the platform—I put the parcel underneath my book—it is correct what I said before the Magistrate that I never saw either of the prisoners in my life before to my knowledge.

CHARLES GEORGE TIMBS . I am a clerk in the affidavits department of the High Court of Justice—I produce this affidavit sworn in the action of Hill against the London and North-Western Railway Company by Thomas Hill.

EDWARD SUMNER . I am a solicitor and commissioner to administer oaths—this affidavit was sworn before me—I took no notice of the person who swore it; I do not think I saw him write his name.

ANNIE WEBB . I am the prisoner Webb's daughter—in the week preceding Christmas, 1883, I was and had been for some time engaged as dressmaker at 28, Wigmore Street, Cavendish Square—my father called on me there on the Wednesday or Thursday in the week before Christmas to see me about going home for the Christmas holidays—I had a younger sister at school at Balham, and it was arranged she and I should go home to Dublin on the Friday before Christmas by the 6.30 from Euston, and our father was to meet us at Chester—on Thursday, the 20th, I and my sister stopped at Wood's Hotel, Drummond Street, where we had been several times before with our father—we went by the 6.30; our father met us at Chester—I had known Hill about two or three years, or not quite so much, by that name—I had generally seen him in Dublin, at my father's house—about a fortnight before Christmas, 1883, I remember his calling on me in Wigmore Street—when I got to Holyhead I got out with my father and sister.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. I was an under hand at the establishment of Goodrich and Inglis, Wigmore Street, and had been there 18 months or more—my sister was then between 13 and 14—there are six besides myself in our family—my father gave us the money to go home with—only I and my sister travelled to Chester—we went third class—at Chester my father came into the same carriage with me, and he was in my sight from that moment till the time of the vessel leaving Holy head—he was never out of my sight for one moment, and my little sister also—on board the boat, owing to the crowd of passengers, our tickets were taken for the saloon in place of third-class—I saw my father take the tickets, and moved from one part of the boat to the other with him—I think on 2nd April this year the prosecution asked me to be a witness against my father I was in Liverpool then, and I think Mr. Richards first saw me about it—I told him all I knew, and when I came to London Mr. Coppin and Mr. Penson met me and took my evidence—I think they were the only two—my father was in the habit of attending auction sales and purchasing and selling goods of that kind—I have seen the goods my father

has bought—I have seen from the invoices that rings and things with precious stones in them were things in which my father dealt, and loose stones of all descriptions—his dealing in that way has been going on for as long as I can remember, it is nothing new—I have known him going about to different places to buy and sell such articles as these to make a profit by it—I knew before that Hill did business with my father but not in what way—I knew of invoices coming over by post, and sometimes my father would manage to purchase at sales without any invoice at all—my father owns two or three houses at Birmingham.

Re-examined. I don't know if my father had to pay for the saloon tickets.

THOMAS HYDE . I am employed in the office of the superintendent of the London and North-Western Line—on 27th December, 1883, Hill was brought there, and I took him to Mr. Coppin's office, the superintendent of police—I was present at the interview between him and Mr. Coppin—on 21st January, 1884, Hill came again about the lost parcel, and produced three pieces of paper, which I took copies of in his presence—this is the copy I made, they profess to be receipts for goods purchased from Tapiey, and amounting altogether to over 600—I handed the originals back to Hill—he took them—he called over the originals to me, and I checked the copy—it is correct—three or four days afterwards, on 25th, Hill came again, and I took him to Mr. Mason, the company's solicitor—I produced to Mr. Mason, in Hill's presence, this copy—a conversation took place between Hill and Mason with reference to the items—these red marks were then made by Mr. Mason, who then took down another list from Hill's mouth; that is attached.

Cross-examined by MR. WILLIAMS. These red-ink marks were all made by Mr. Mason, stating that some things were and that some were not in the parcel.

ELIJAH COPPIN (Superintendent, London and North-Western Railway Police). I heard of the loss of this parcel on 22nd December, 1883, and received instructions to investigate the matter, and I had three interviews with Hill on 27th and 29th December and 1st January—on the 27th December he was brought into my office at Euston—I said "You are Mr. Hill, I believe"—he said "Yes"—I said "You sent a parcel to Webb of Dublin on the 21st of this month insured for 550l."—he said "Yes"—I said "This is the 27th, and we have had no complaint from you"—he said "I found a letter at Wood's Hotel stating it had not been delivered"—I said "Who is Mr. Webb?"—he said "He resides at 134, Lower Gloucester Street, Dublin; I have known him some time; we have carried on business in the jewellery and hardware"—I said "Where are you living?"—he said "No. 12, St. Ann's Place, Brixton Road"—I said "I find you stayed at Wood's Hotel on the night of the 20th"—he said "Yes"—I said "It is strange that you should have stayed there, seeing that you have a wife in lodgings at Brixton"—he said "I don't know how that happened"—I said "This is a very important matter, and I want you to give me all the assistance you can; I presume you have a statement of the contents of the parcel?"—he said "No, I have not; I don't keep any books, but I dare say I can get you a statement"—he left my office—about 10 or 15 minutes afterwards I saw him come out of Wood's Hotel—he was called up into Inspector Pearson's office, which is immediately opposite Wood's Hotel—he there handed me

this list—the ink was quite wet at the time. (This included rings and various articles of jewellery to the amount of 561l.) I said "This is not what I really require; I want a thorough description of the whole contents, in order that it may be properly circulated among the pawnbrokers"—he said "I will endeavour to get you some further information, and will see you again"—he came on the 29th, and brought with him this list. (This was a list of rings with their descriptions.) I said "This is all very well so far as it goes, but it does not give the information that I require; I have received instructions from the Company to have bills printed offering a reward, and I shall require the private marks on the inside of the rings"—he said "There are no private marks"—Mr. Pearson made some observation as to the rings, and I said "Here are some rings of very great value, and they would certainly bear the private marks of the makers"—he said "I had them specially made without marks"—Mr. Pearson said "Oh, it is nonsense; rings of that sort would have the private marks of the maker"—I asked him two or three times over, but could get no further particulars from him—I said "Have you the invoices with you?"—he said "No; but I dare say I can produce them at the proper time"—I said "Well, you will know where you got the goods from?"—he said "Well, some are what I have had by me for some time, but the bulk of it is new; it is made in Birmingham and Clerkenwell"—I said "Will you give me the names of the manufacturers of it?"—he said "No, I don't see why I should"—I said "What were you going to do with the goods, as Dublin is the last place in the world to dispose of such goods as these?"—he said "Webb was going to put them up at auction sales, then we get a respectable man in the trade to bid for them; the public are thus led to believe they are very valuable, and we get more than they are worth, but the game has been played out there now, and I have returned to England"—he had said that he had lived at 3, Hanken Street, Dublin, prior to removing to St. Ann's Place—I said "It is very important you should tell me whether any one was present when you packed the jewellery that you were sending off, as thieves may have followed and stolen it in transit"—he said "That cannot be, as no one knew I had the goods; my wife may have been about the room at the time I packed them, but she did not see me do it; I don't leave my goods about;" and he opened his waistcoat and pointed to a small pocket inside and said "That is where I keep them"—he said they were in a cigar box when he sent them from Euston—I saw him again on 1st June, but we could elicit nothing further—after that I received instructions to watch Hill, and gave my subordinates, Pearson and others, instructions to do so, and I also gave instructions for Webb to be seen in Dublin—I was present in the High Court on 25th and 26th February, 1885, when the case of Hill v. the London and North-Western Railway Company was in the list—I saw nothing of Hill on either day, and they searched all the neighbourhood and in the courts and could not find any traces of him on either day—I know Tatley by name only—I have been to the address given on the list, 42, Coborn Road, Bow, since the action was commenced—I have not seen Hill there—I have not been able to find Mr. Tapley there or any trace of him, though I made every possible search and inquiry at his address and other places for him—the last trace we could find was the day after warrants were applied for for the prisoners' apprehension—when the action was called on judgment was taken for the

company—Webb was brought up as a witness—after the case was over on 26th application was made at Bow Street before Sir James Ingham for warrants against Hill and Webb and a woman, Jane Dayus, for whom every search has been made, but who has not been found—on 14th March I received a telegram and went to Hackney Police-station, where I saw Hill in custody—I said "Good morning, Hill"—he said "My name is not Hill, my name is Wood"—I said "You remember me?"—after a moment or so he said "Yes, of course I do"—I got into a cab with him—I said "Do you know that man Lowe standing outside there?" pointing to a man standing outside—he said "No, I never saw him before in my life"—I said "Why you know him very well"—he said "Yes"—he then made use of bad language—in the cab he said "How many are you going to prosecute?"—I said "Two or three"—he said "Who are they?"—I said "I will tell you if you name them"—he said "Is he one of them that I said I had some of the stuff from?" I said "You mean Tapley; no, at this moment he is not in custody; I saw Webb the other day"—he said "Where?"—I said "We brought him up as a witness the other day in your case against the Company"—he said "He cannot say anything about it; he can only say he did not receive the parcel; you admit you had it and lost it"—I said "Yes, and you had it twice"—he made no answer—I said "Webb was also staying at the hotel about the time this parcel was sent off"—he said "I think it was a little before that"—I said "He also used to stay at Euston Grove?"—he said "Yes, sometimes"—that is close to Drummond Street—I think that is all the conversation—that is all I remember of it.

Cross-examined by MR. WILLIAMS. I have been a detective for some years—I have heard it is a common custom with dealers in diamonds and precious stones to have pockets inside the waistcoat for the purpose of carrying the stones—I don't know it—I made some notes of the conversations; Pearson made notes—I said before the Magistrate that he said, "How many are you going to prosecute?" not "How many more?"—that is quite correct—he did not say that he understood Tapley had had some goods on approbation and had not paid for them; I certainly mean that—I took no note of what he said—I said, "I saw Webb the other day"—he said, "Where?"—I said, "He was up on your action against the Company"—he said, "What for?"—I said, "As I understood, against you on behalf of the Company," and then he said, "He cannot give any evidence, he can simply prove he did not have the parcel; you had the parcel, and lost it."

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. I should observe the same rules as the other metropolitan police officers—I believe Webb's name had been mentioned before; I cannot remember how it was—I did not suggest to Hill's mind that Webb had made a statement implicating Hill, and that he was there to be a witness against Hill—I said he had made a statement to our solicitor—I did not introduce it to raise his anger against Webb and get him to make a statement against him; I did not hope he would—I had seen a statement; I did not hear it; it is the same as Richards deposed to before the Magistrate—I said Webb had made a statement; I did not say it was a statement against him; I said he was called to give evidence on behalf of the Company—I knew there was not a syllable in any statement by Webb implicating Hill in any way.

Re-examined. At that time a warrant was out against Webb, and he was in custody—I told Hill that Webb had been examined by the solicitor to the Company, and was going to be examined on behalf of the Company.

WILLIAM COLLINS PENSON . I am assistant to the superintendent of the North-Western—it is my duty to inquire into claims made for lost parcels—I was present on 29th December, 1883, when Coppin had an interview with Hill; I heard all that was said by both persons.

Cross-examined. December 29th is the only date on which I was present.

JAMES HENRY PEARSON (Chief Inspector, L. & N. W. Railway). On 19th December, 1883, I saw the two prisoners together at Wood's Hotel, which my office at Euston overlooks; they came out together—I had seen them before together at the same place going in and out—I knew Webb's name, but Hill I did not know—on 23rd December I received information as to the loss, and instructions from Coppin to make inquiries—on 27th and 29th December, and 1st January, I was present at the interviews between Hill and Coppin; afterwards I heard of the action brought by Hill against the Company, and received instructions, and watched 12, St. Ann's Place, Brixton, the address Hill had given to Coppin—I saw Hill leave that house—I took a note of the different days I watched there—I saw him leave there altogether, with a woman, and I saw the landlady, and inspected the house—it was a respectable double-house, kept by Mrs. Plush—I have followed Hill—he would take the omnibus or tram and alight at the Elephant and Castle, and various times I have seen him going into Richardson's, a draper's shop—from there I have traced him to Bishopsgate Street, and from there to Bow, 42. Coborn Road, Tapley's address given on the invoices—I have seen him come out of there with Tapley and go into a public-house, and then Tapley returned to his house, and Hill went to the Coborn Road Station and came to London—I only saw that once; I have seen him go to Liverpool Street Station several times—I have watched him for a long time—I watched 15, Graveney Terrace, Graveney Road, Lower Tooting where I saw Hill and the same woman—I saw him doing no business at either of those places—the house at Lower Tooting was a very small one—I last saw Hill on 14th November, 1884—after that I was looking for him till the time of his apprehension—I could not see or hear of him—I was at the Royal Courts on 25th and 26th February—I went to Hackney Policestation on 12th March.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Wood's Hotel is a temperance hotel—I have seen Webb going in and out there for many years; I have seen him there several times with Hill—the last time I saw him and Hill was 18th or 19th December, 1883; I was in my office looking out of window.

EDMUND RICHARDS . I am detective inspector of the London and North-Western Railway Company at Liverpool—after Christmas, 1883, I received information of the loss of the parcel, and at the same time instructions to go to Dublin—I arrived in Dublin on the morning of 28th December, and went to Webb's house, Lower Gloucester Street—I told him what I was and said, "Mr. Webb, have you received that parcel yet sent you from Euston on the 21st of this month"—he said, "No, I have not"—I said, "Who was the sender?"—he said, "Mr. Hill"—I said, "What did it contain?"—he said, "Jewellery, gold rings,

with some diamonds"—I said, "Can you show me the invoice which you received from the sender?"—he said, "No, I have not received one, and I cannot tell exactly what was in the parcel, but Mr. Hill will be able to tell you"—I said, "Can you show me a list of what you ordered from him?"—he said, "No, I was in London a few days before and saw Mr. Hill, he told me he was going to send me some rings, how many and what sort he did not say"—I said, "How do you dispose of these goods?"—he said, "I attend sales in the city here, and I have done business with a Mr. Dillon, auction rooms, and Munkasy, also with a Mr. Perceval, a jeweller in the city. I have not received a parcel, I cannot tell you anything about it. I have been laid about a fortnight, I can scarcely walk now"—in consequence of what he told me I made inquiries in Dublin about Mr. Dillon, and went to Mr. Perceval—on ✗th January, 1884, I again saw Webb in Dublin as I was leaving the auction rooms—I said, "Mr. Webb, I find you received an insured parcel from London on 8th December; it was insured for 550l., can you tell me what that parcel contained?"—he said, "No, I shall not answer any more questions; Mr. Hill is the man you should question, I have nothing to do with insured parcels or the Company"—I told him I had been in Dillon's and Perceval's rooms, but he would not listen and walked away, and would not give any more information—I went to 3, Hanken Road, Dublin; it is a common lodging-house—I made inquiries at every auction room I could find in Dublin with reference to Hill and Webb—I saw Webb in Liverpool on 26th July, 1884, in Kirkdale Prison—I saw him at the station on 24th July, I did not speak to him; I spoke to him on 26th July.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Webb only once said that Hill was the Only person who could give information concerning the parcel—I have never before said anything about Kirkdale Gaol—it was not suggested to me that I should mention it, the question was put to me where I saw him.

WILLIAM COOPER (Detective Police Inspector, Birmingham). I have known Hill as Thomas Harrison for 12 or 13 years, at Birmingham first—I have known Webb at Birmingham about 15 years by the names of John Carpenter and John Dekin—I have seen them in Birmingham together—when I knew Hill first he was a cabinet-maker in partnership with John Mowlem—Webb carried on no business—I have known Jane Dayus more than 20 years; she and Hill have lived together for the last 12 or 13 years on and off.

Cross-examined by MR. WILLIAMS. They lived together as man and wife at times—her husband was a convict.

Cross examined by MR. BESLEY. I should think it was three or four years since I saw Webb until I saw him last summer, and I have not seen Harrison during the whole of that time.

JAMES LOWE . I am a fishmonger, and live at 16, Mold Street, Birmingham—I have known Hill by the name of Harrison for 16 years, and Webb about seven years—Hill was a journeyman cabinet-maker when I knew him, and Webb, I believe, was walking about the streets—I know Jane Dayus; I do not know where she is—her maiden name was Jenny Gostin—she lived with Hill—she married a man named Dayus—in February, 1884, I was with him in the Watch house public-house, Westminster Bridge Road; we met Jane Dayus. (MR. WILLIAMS objected to

the conversation between the witness and Jane Dayus being given in evidence, as the woman was not on her trial. MR. GRAIN submitted that as she was charged in the indictment the evidence was admissible. The RECORDER ruled that sufficient foundation had not been laid for at for him to receive it.) I last saw Hill in London on 11th March this year—I said, "Harrison, you know me now?"—he said, "I do not"—I said, "You have had a good innings of swindling; I apprehend you for conspiracy on the London and North-Western, or whatever you like to call it."

Cross-examined by MR. WILLIAMS. I was born before marriage, and I married in my mother's maiden name of Thornaby, and I followed my occupation in my father's name of Lowe; I always had the name of Lowe except for the few minutes when I was being married, and then I was Thornaby—I have been a fishmonger about six years, and keep a shop at 16, Mold Street, Birmingham; I sell fish there—my wife's name is Ann—I keep no other house whatever at Birmingham—a charge was made against me about some cloth that was lost in a house where I was—Dayus occupied that house, the sister of the man I was walking with, not the woman who lived with Hill; she was not a married woman—I was proved afterwards to be an honest man—that house was not a brothel to my knowledge; I visited there, but did not live there; I won't swear whether it was a brothel or not—I said before the Magistrate that I told the prisoner he had had a good innings of swindling—my deposition was read over to me and I signed it. (The words did not appear in the deposition.) I said it, but it was not heard—those words must have been omitted, I must have missed it from the statement—I did not call the Magistrates attention to the omission because I did not think it was anything important.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. I swear I swore those words—it is true that "All I know of Webb is what I have heard from somebody else. I knew Webb in Birmingham. I saw him there. I never spoke to him. I have never seen him and Hill together."

Re-examined. I used that expression at Bow Street whether it was taken down or not.

By MR. WILLIAMS. When I said I would take him in custody there were two constables there; I should not know which two if I saw them.

GEORGE GRANT . I live at 72, St. John's Road, Hoxton, and am a jobbing watch maker—I have known Hill and Webb close on four years; they have been together to my shop and brought me different jobs to repair, watches and jewellery—Hill called at my place and told me he had sent off a registered parcel with a lot of goods in it and it was missing, and that some of the goods in the parcel I had sold him, that the goods were worth close on 1,000l.; that he was going to have an action against them and I should very likely be subpoenaed to prove I had sold him three rings he put me in mind of a large single stone ring he had given 17l. for six months previously, and a half hoop I had sold him eight months previous, and a small three-stoned gipsy—I keep books; these were not entered because they were taken in exchange for other things—Webb was not there on that occasion—I have seen Tapley in sale rooms, I know him by sight—I was not subpoenaed for the trial—four months ago I asked Hill how he was getting on with the trial—he said he was not going on with it because one of his partners, Webb, had got into trouble, he was going to wait until he came out—perhaps he

called him by his Christian name John as well, or perhaps he called him Jack.

Cross-examined. I know Tapley as a dealer at sales in jewellery, I have changed things with him—it is a common thing in the trade to make up second-hand stones—it is a common thing for people who attend sales and people in the stone trade to have no place of business.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Webb never informed me of bargains with Hill that I remember—I have been told Hill has bought at sale rooms, and I have known people that sold him goods—perhaps in 1883 I saw Webb five times—I knew he lived in Dublin, and that when he came over he came from Dublin and was taking things back.

By MR. WILLIAMS. I have seen Hill at different times in the possession of rings and stones to the amount of several hundred pounds.

Re-examined. I have seen him many times in 1880-82-83 at my place, he showed me them—he carried them in a pocket book, and I bought one stone of him for 44l.

EDWARD ORAM . I am a clerk in the writ department, High Court of Justice—I produce the filed copy of a writ in the case of Hill against the North-Western, the statement of claim, and the judgment, which was in favour of the Company—I have the statement of defence, and practically the whole of the documents.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. This is the record of the case that was called on, and the only one; it is the only one I produced, sealed with the seal of the Court of Record.

Re-examined. This is the amended statement of defence, it had not been lodged when I gave evidence before the Magistrate—I produce it to-day as part of the proceedings.

ANN PLUSH . I am the wife of Robert Plush, of St. Ann's Place Brixton—just before Christmas, 1883, I had apartments to let in my house—a woman giving the name of Mrs. Hill called to look at them, and about an hour after she came back with Hill, and took two furnished rooms at 12s. a week with no attendance—he said he was an agent for Birmingham goods, and gave as a reference Fraser, coffee shop, Blackfriars Road—they stopped about five months, and then I gave them notice to leave.

ELIZA BUCKLEY . I am the wife of Richard Buckley, of 87, Tradescar Road, South Lambeth—in May, 1884, a woman took apartments in our house, and Hill came afterwards—they brought a tin box and portmanteau and a few other things—they carried on no business there—they stayed about nine weeks, and left in July—I gave them notice—they paid 11s. a week.

GEORGE SMALL . I live at Alderman Road, Biggin Hill—in June, 1884, Hill came to me bringing Thomas Gordon's rent-book with him—I had let premises in Alderbrook Road, Balham, to Thomas Gordon—Hill paid the rent—I receipted the book and gave it to him back—I had received a reference to Fraser, coffee shop, Blackfriars Road—Gordon continued from 26th March to 6th September, 1884—I could not say if Hill had the house or not—all the rent I received was brought by Hill—I had a month's rent in advance before I saw him—I received complaints from the neighbours about the house, and spoke to Hill the next time he came, addressing him by the name of Gordon: (I did not know the name of Hill till I saw him at Bow Street)—he said his name was not Gordon—I said

"Then if your name is not Gordon, what have you to do with the house?"—he said Mr. Gordon had gone to the Continent some time before, and he had taken part of the house and was occupying it with him—after that the key was arranged to be given up—I went to the house with Hill—there was no furniture of any consequence there—I examined the premises.

ANN SMITHMAN . I live at 47, Elderfield Road, Clapton—on 3rd February a woman came and took the first floor front and back rooms in my house, and on 4th February Hill came there and asked if his wife was there—I said yes, the first floor over the stairs—that was about six weeks before he was taken in custody—they lodged in my house until he was taken—I did not see the woman after 6 o'clock the night Hill was taken.

JOHN LANGRISH (Inspector E). I received these warrants for the prisoners apprehension and the woman's, and received a communication that Hill was in custody at Hackney Police-station—I went there with Coppin, and afterwards I went to the last witness's house—the woman was not there—I have not been able to find her anywhere—at Smithson's I took charge of two portmanteaus and a small writing desk—this black book was in the front room on the top of the cupboard, in the room pointed out to me as having been occupied by Hill and the woman—I found a small saw in the portmanteau and a centre-bit among other things, and a 100 franc note, and a diamond ring with one stone deficient—that was all I found of value—I searched Hill—I only found this ring of any value on him.

JOSEPH ISAAC BIRCH . I am manager to Messrs. Wontner and Sons, solicitors, of St. Paul's Chambers, Ludgate Hill—Hill came to our firm about February, 1884, and gave us some instructions about bringing an action against the London and North-Western Railway Company—the case was set down for trial, and after that a letter sent to the address Hill had last given me was returned through the dead letter office, and I saw nothing of him after that till I saw him at the police-court.

Cross-examined by MR. WILLIAMS. Two letters were returned through the dead letter office addressed to Hill—we received a letter from Hill requesting us to postpone the trial till about April, 1885. (This letter requested the postponement, as the witnesses could not be available till March or April. Another letter was read which requested them to inform him whether the case would come on within the next fortnight, and stated that he had been laid up with a fractured leg.) I only had charge of the case up to a certain point.

Re-examined. I know that a statement of defence was delivered, and that interrogatories were administered and answers drawn by our Counsel—I have never seen Hill write.

By MR. WILLIAMS. I have several letters from the Railway Company after the claim was made by Hill—the letter of 6th March, 1884, from the Railway Company says: "Neither I nor my clients have imputed fraud or dishonesty."

EDWARD HINTON . I am a solicitor at Euston Station—I had the management of the action brought by Hill against the Railway Company—up to the time that letter was written the London and North-Western Railway Company were not in the possession of sufficient information to plead actual fraud—in consequence of information from the detective

department I decided to fight the action, and an amended statement was put in on 8th December, 1884.

WEBB— NOT GUILTY . HILL**— GUILTY of false pretences and conspiracy. Eighteen Month's Hard Labour.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-539
VerdictsNot Guilty > unknown; Not Guilty > no evidence

Related Material

539. EDWARD POWELL (40) , Stealing a post-letter containing valuable securities, he being employed in the post-office. Other Counts for embezzeling and for receiving.



ISABELLA COX . I am the wife of John Cox; we live at Market Street, Warwick—on the morning of 28th Feb. I sent three postal orders for 20s., 3s., and 3s., from the Warwick Post-office, in an envelope with an account to H.C. Wilkinson and Co., 135, Regent Street, London—I fastened up and posted the letter myself at a quarter to 9 a.m.—Mr. Roberts was the post-office assistant who issued the orders to me—I shortly afterwards communicated with the post-office about that letter.

CHARLES JAMES ROBERTS . I am employed as an assistant at the Warwick Post-office—on 28th February I issued three postal orders to Mrs. Cox, entereing the numbers in a book which I have here—these three for 20s., 3s., and 3s., correspond to the numbers I took down—those were the only three orders I issued that morning—a letter addressed and posted before 9 o'clock would be dispatched from Warwick shortly afterwards at 9.5 to London.

JOSEPH FRAYER . I am overseer to the Inland Branch of the post-office—the 9.5 a.m mail bags from Warwick arrive at the chief office at 1.27 p.m., and a letter such as that described by Mrs. Cox would be transferred at 2.9 to the E.C. Office, and afterwards to the W. District in Vere Street, which it would reach 25 minutes after 2.9—allowing for stoppages, it would reach Vere Street before 3.2.

CHARLES RUSS . I am clerk to Messrs. Wilkinson, 135, Regent Street, jewellers—they take their letters from the Western District Office in a private bag, one key of which is kept at the office, and one at the firm—I fetch the bag daily from the office about 8 o'clock a.m.—after fetching it at 8 o'clock on Saturday morning I should not fetch it till 8 o'clock on Monday morning—on Monday, 2nd March, I fetched it and handed it to Mr. Rollison, Messrs. Wilkinson's manager.

HERBERT WILDERS ROLLISON . I am manager to Messrs. Wilkinson' 135, Regent Street—I received the letter-bag from the West District Office on Monday morning, 2nd March—I did not take out a letter from Mrs. Cox of Warwick with three postal orders—none of the names of the payees on these orders are the names of any persons in our firm—I don't recognise the handwriting at all—postal orders from customers are always paid in every morning to Messrs. Ransom, Bouverie, and Co., the firm's bankers, with our stamp across them—I afterwards had a communication from Messrs. Cox, and wrote to the post-office.

Cross-examined. We receive about 350 letters every morning.

Re-examined. No one has any access to them before they get to me.

GEORGE IMESON . I am a post-office receiver at 122, Caledonian Road—this postal order (produced) is one issued at Greenock, 878, 315, for 3s.—on 24th April it was presented at our office for payment, I don't know who by—he gave the name of Henry Hoare—all these postal orders are

signed in the same handwriting—after that I communicated with the post-office—two of these three orders from Warwick were paid at my office—one is signed Frank Howard; it was presented by Hoare and paid by me on 18th March.

WILLIAM DOWLING CHEVALIER . I am a counterman at the Vere Street Office—I paid this Warwick order for 3s.; it is my signature attached to it—I have no idea to whom I paid it.

CAROLINE REED . I am an assistant at King's Cross Road Post-office—I paid this order for 20s. over the counter—I do not know to whom.

HENRY HOARE . I am a harness maker, and live at 37, Stanmore Street, Caledonian Road—on 24th April I went to the post-office receiving house, 122, Caledonian Road, with a postal order for 3s. from Greenock—I presented it for payment, and was detained by Mr. Imeson—it is my receipt on the Greenock order—I presented these three other orders, one for 20s., and two for 3s. each, and got them paid—I got them all four from Lizzie Harris—the signatures to all four are in my writing—one is payable to J. Holloway, another to G. Hart, both body and signature are in my writing, hird to Lizzie Harris, signed by me, and another to F. Howard; both body and signature are mine—I cashed the 20s. order on 6th March, at King's Cross Road, the 3s. one at Vere Street on 23rd March, and the other on 17th March, at 122, Caledonian Road—I saw Harris after I went to the General Post-office, and the prisoner five hours afterwards—I had seen him before, once at King's Cross, and again at King's Cross in volunteer's clothes, and once in the Caledonian Road—on those occasions he was in Lizzie Harris's company—I did not speak to him; I only saw him in her company—it was about eight weeks ago I first saw him with her; I could not say the date—I don't remember the number of postal orders the girl has given me, but I was told 26 altogether; that was about it—no one else has given me postal orders in this way to cash—they were all given me within the last six months—I did not know Preston, employed at Vere Street, until he was pointed out to me at the Post-office when I was taken there; I had never seen him before that, either with Harris or any one.

Cross-examined. I have only passed by one other name besides what I put on the orders, I have not counted how many names I signed—when I took the orders to be cashed I signed the first name that came into my head—I am known by the name of Harris at Stanmore Street—I am a harness maker, I have done no work lately—Lizzie Harris provided the money I lived upon—I lived on her prostitution before I helped to bring this charge against the prisoner, a little over 12 months—I have done work occasionally at my own trade—I was in no person's employment for twelve months prior to this charge being brought—I knew the girl earned her living by prostitution—I did not follow her about, only on the three occasions when I saw her with the prisoner, she might have crossed my path when I was out—I said before the Magistrate "I have walked behind her to look after her to protect her," it was not to see what custom she got—I call following her protecting her—I said "Inspector Peel suspected me of a jewel robbery a year or more ago at Windus and Co's. in Hanwell Street"—that is true—I took the bed and board knowing how Harris got her living—directly Powell came in the door I pointed him out—I was asked the question "Was

that the man that gave Lizzie Harris the poet-office order?" and I said "Yes"—I had not seen him give her any orders.

Re-examined. I was not charged with any robbery at Clerkenwell—I first saw the prisoner at the office about 9 o'clock in the evening; there were 10 other gentlemen in the room, I dare say—Mr. Hurst took me to the room, the prisoner was not there then—they asked me what I knew about the prisoner, and I made my statement—Mr. Woodward asked me questions—I had not seen the prisoner before that in the room.

LIZZIE HARRIS . I live at 37, Stanmore Street, Caledonian Road, and am 19 years old next August—I became acquainted with Hoare three years or a little more ago, and have been living with him lately—I first met the prisoner one evening about three months ago at the back of King's Cross Station—I had before that seen him now and again in a shop in Bingfield Street, Caledonian Road, where I dealt on and off—when I met him that evening he asked me to have a glass of ale—I said I did not mind, and I had a glass with him in the Globe public-house—After that we went to a greengrocer's shop in the King's Cross Road and into a room there together by ourselves—we remained there for some time—when he left he gave me a postal order for 7s. 6d. and said he had not any money, but I could get the money just the same if I took it to the post office, they would change it for me—I said to him "It is all right, isn't it?"—he said "Oh, yes my girl, you have got nothing to fear, I should not give it you if it was not all right," and he said all I had to do was to write my name on the top, "You can sign any name and they will give you the money "—when we first went into the room the prisoner said "Don't you know me?"—I said "I know you now you have taken your hat off, I did not know you before, you are the gentleman that keeps the provision shop"—he said "That is right"—that was the shop in Bingfield Street—the night after I saw him again—he said he might see me next night and might give me something—the following night I saw him at King's Cross Station and he gave me some orders of the same kind—he said "I can be a very good friend to you, but at the same time I cannot afford to give you all the money, you must return me half"—he gave me other orders at other times, altogether he gave me about 30—he gave mo this Warwick order—I wrote "Hart" in the body of it; it is Hoare's signature at the bottom, I gave it to him—I gave these other two Warwick orders to Hoare, it is not my writing on either of them—I got some of the money from time to time, and I always gave the prisoner back half, sometimes in the street, sometimes in his shop—I got this Greenock order from him the night before I charged him (I think it is the one Hoare was stopped with), on the Thursday night—I forget if he gave it me in the shop or street—when he gave me the order in the shop it was in a little piece of newspaper, sometimes rolled up—the "Smith" in the body is mine—the signature "Henry Smith" at the bottom is Hoare's—when the prisoner gave me this on 23rd April I bought some provisions in his shop; two duck's eggs, and a bundle of wood, and a tin of salmon—it was late in the evening—I had to meet him on Friday evening at 6 o'clock at King's Cross Station, where I nearly always met him—the next day I was out with Hoare and he went to change the order at the chemist's shop in Caledonian Road—I waited outside, I could not see into the shop—as he did not come out I went in to get a pennyworth of glycerine and rose-water, and saw him

sitting there with a policeman—I came out, and as I did not know what to do went down to King's Cross; and alter talking to a friend went to the police-station—from there I was taken to the General Post-office, where I saw Mr. Woodward, to whom I made a statement—I did not see Powell there when I first went, and did not know he was there; there were a lot of gentlemen there—alter I had made the statement I saw Powell there—I said "That is the man that gave me the orders"—the prisoner said 'I don't know you, I have never seen you before"—I said "Oh yes, he does know me, on my word he knows me, gentlemen"—I never received any post-office orders from any one else—I gave these pos al orders to Hoare to change—I don't know Preston, a postman, I never had anything to do with him.

Cross-examined. I might have changed four or five orders, not more—I told Hoare where I had got them from—he said nothing as to whether he thought they had been improperly come by—he took them as a matter of course and cashed them—I don't know the name of the greengrocer's shop, it is in the King's Cross Road, at the corner of a court, with a provision shop at one corner and this shop at the other, and a large public-house right at the corner—I never noticed the name of the court—I went to that shop five or six times, I cannot be sure; I used to go in at the side door—there used to be a man or a woman there who took the money; they would have an opportunity of seeing the prisoner—I have not seen anybody here from that shop—I don't know whether anybody was called at the police-court from that shop—there is a young woman, Annie Key, here who who saw me with the prisoner—she was before the Magistrate—she is a dressmaker; I knew her by living in the same house before Christmas last.—she is not an unfortunate that I know of—I was living the same life then in that house at 22, Storey Street—I left there a week before Christmas—I am 19, and have known Hoare about three years, he has been living on me for the last year—he cashed all the orders except the two or three I cashed.

Cross-examined. The greengrocer's shop is now shut up—I know that because the woman threatened me for shutting it.

FREDERICK WILLIAM WOODWARD . I am a clerk in the confidential inquiry branch of the General Post-office—in the course of my duty I was making inquiries about the loss of letters passing through the Vere Street office, where Powell was employed—on 24th April Hoare was brought to the General Post-office, and in consequence of a statement be made Powell was brought there and Harris was sent for—Hoare was in the room when Powell was brought in—immediately he entered the room Hoare said "That is the man that gave these orders to Mrs. Harris"—I said to Hoare "Do you know this gentleman?"—he said "Yes"—I said "Who is he?"—he said "I know him by the name of Powell"—I said "Is he the gentleman who gave those orders to Mrs. Harris?" Hoare said "Yes"—I took that down—I asked Powell his name and age and so on, and said "You know who I am?"—he said "Yes"—I said "A large number of letters addressed to the firm of Wilkinson and Company, Regent Street, have been stolen in transit through the post, and the orders which were enclosed in them have been fraudulently negotiated; this afternoon this young man," pointing to Hoare, "whose name is Hoare, presented one numbered 878515 for 3s. for payment at Caledonian Road receiving house; he was stopped, and on being

questioned about it states that he received it from Mrs. Harris through you"—the prisoner replied "I deny it, it is a falsehood"—Harris then came into the room, and Powell was placed where he could not be seen by her, but could hear what was going on—she made a statement, which Powell heard—I said to her "Do you know why you have been brought here?"—she replied "That young man," pointing to Hoare, "I gave him an order to charge this afternoon, and I was waiting outside for him and saw the policeman go in, and I went in for a pennyworth of glycerine and rose-water; I saw the policeman and the young man sitting by his side; I did not know whether to say anything; I went out and walked down as far as King's Cross Station, and was there about half an hour, when I saw this gentleman "(he was a third person who had come down with Harris)" and I asked him what I should do, as I thought Harry was locked up, and he said I had better go to the station and tell the truth how I got the order, and I told the gentleman that; and with that the gentelman brought me down here"—I produced the order and said to Harris "Where did you get this order?"—she said "A man gave it to me"—I said "Do you know him?"—she said "I do not know more of him; he met me one evening at King's Cross Station and gave me the order; I said 'Is it all right?' he said 'Quite right, you have nothing to do; it was before Easter he had to do with me; each time he asked me to give him half of the orders he gave me; I did; this is the order he gave me last night over the counter of his shop, and at the same time I bought two three-halfpenny duck's eggs, a bundle of wood, and a tin of salmon; he said I was to meet him to-night at 6 o'clock, at King's Cross Station, where I nearly always meet him; I did not meet him, because I went to the other place"—I asked her to look round the room and see if she could identify the person who gave her the order; she looked at Powell and said "That is the man"—I said to Powell "You have heard what Mrs. Harris has said, what have you to say about it?"—he said "I deny it, I never gave her any orders, I never saw her before"—I asked him where he lived, he said 42, Bingfield Street, Caledonian Road—I said "Have you anything belonging to the Post-office?"—he said "No, only a few cases I take home to do"—I searched his house, and found two Bank of Ireland notes; I asked him to whom they belonged, he said "To me"—me said "Where did you get them from?"—he said "I took them over my counter as cash"—I said "Who from?"—he said "Customers I don't know; they were for goods a week ago"—I then produced 30 postal orders which I told him had been stolen from post-letters and fraudulently negotiated, and the matter would be laid before the secretary—he made no reply.

Cross-examined. The prisoner was assistant overseer at Vere Street; he has been in the service of the Post-office for 19 years—I cannot speak for certain—letters from Warwick would pass through a great many hands before reaching Vere Street—a good many hands are employed at Vere Street—I cannot say how many; many persons would have access to the letters there—some letters come straight from the country there; some pass through the General Post-office.

ROBERT ROMFORD HOADE . I am assistant overseer at the Western District of the General Post-office—Powell was assistant overseer at the same office and had been in the Post-office service since 21st September,

1868; his wages were 50s. a week—a letter addressed to Messrs. Wilkinson and Co., Regent Street, if dispatched from the East Central District at 9 minutes past 2 would reach the Western District at 2.33—I was on duty on Saturday, 28th February, in the morning, not in the afternoon—the prisoner would be on duty if I was not and would have access to letters passing through the office—on Friday, 24th April, I was in the General Post-office when the prisoner was there—I have heard Woodward's account; it is perfectly correct—the next morning, 25th April, I again saw the prisoner at the General Post-office—he said "Good morning" and then beckoned me over to where he was sitting, and he said "There is more implicated in this affair, and you will find out as time goes on who they are; you will be surprised"—I said "Why not say who they are?"—he said "I have been thinking it out during the night, and it has come to my mind that Preston paid a visit to my shop some time ago in company with another man; I have been thinking what a strange thing it was that Preston should call upon me, a thing which he had never done before"—I said "Who was the other man, was he any one employed in our office?"—he said "No, he was a stranger to me; I can quite see through this affair, they have been getting this up against me, but of course I shall have to suffer; these orders have been given to this girl by Preston; the girl was instructed if she was questioned concerning where she obtained the orders, she was to say Powell gave them to her; this is all a get-up; I am innocent, but will have to suffer as all these witnesses are against me; I have seen Preston with this girl in the neighbourhood of King's Cross a great deal"—I know man named Preston in the Western District office—he was on duty in the office on the morning of 28th Feb., and left the office for delivery the last time at 12.15 in the afternoon—the prisoner was in the habit in the course of his duty of taking money to the bank from the office—on Saturdays he generally did that in the morning—the prisoner would know of the inquiries and complaints of Messrs. Wilkinson passing in the office.

Cross-examined. There had been complaints at the office that somebody had been stealing letters for some time—the prisoner was well aware of that, and if dealing with stolen post orders he would know of the suspicion—the prisoner had nothing to do with letters.

Re-examined. In the course of his duty he would have access to the tables where they were sorting letters—I cannot remember the date when orders began to be cashed at different offices; I know it is about three months from the commencement of the cashing.

JOHN WILLIAM PRESTON . I am a first-class postman at the W. District post-office, Vere Street—I have been in the post-office service 17 years—I am in the same volunteer corps with the prisoner—on one occasion I went to the prisoner's shop with another man, Sinclair, on Good Friday, 1st April, at the prisoner's invitation—I introduced Sinchair to the prisoner—I never went to his house on any other occasion—I never saw Harris nor Hoare to my knowledge—I have never been in Harris's company in the neighbourhood of King's Cross—I never gave her a postal order.

Cross-examined. I have been to King's Cross to see my brother, but not lately; I went to York Road on Good Friday—I had never seen the girl before till I saw her at the General Post-office on Saturday—the prisoner is a married man, and I am too.

ANNIE KEY . I live at 22, Storey Street, Caledonian Road, and am a dressmaker—I know the prisoner, I have dealt at his shop on and off for two years—I knew Lizzie Harris by her living at 22, Storey Street—I saw her with the prisoner on one occasion at Derby Street, Gray's Inn Road, they were entering the Globe public-house—I am quite sure the prisoner was the man with her—she had not spoken to me about the case at all till a week last Thursday.

Cross-examined. I have only seen Hurst the police-constable twice—he asked me the question whether I had ever seen the girl in company with the prisoner—that was the first I was asked about it—I did not speak to her when I saw her going into the Globe; I was passing through Derby Street; she did not see me and did not know I had seen her—she asked me if I would be a witness for her—I have lived in the house for two years—I did not know she was a prostitute at the time, not for two months after she was there—Hoare was living in the same house, but I went to business of a day, and did not know their business—I believe they occupied the same room.

Re-examined. Hoare gave the name of Harris, the same name as the girl—the girl asked me to be her witness last Thursday after I saw Hurst—I said I did not mind as I had seen her with him, I told her, at the Globe—I was astonished when I knew her occupation.

WALTER HURST . I am a police-constable attached to the General Post-office—I took the prisoner into custody on 25th April.


There was another Indictment against the prisoner for a like offence, on which MR. BAGGALLAY, for the Prosecution, offered no evidence.


THIRD COURT.—Tuesday, May 19th, 1885.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-540
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

540. STEPHEN SULLIVAN (65) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.


JAMES FROOME . I live at 19, Stock well Green—on 19th March I was in Covent Garden selling plants, and the prisoner came up and bought two plants for eighteenpence; he gave me a half-crown; I gave him a good shilling—I got the plants down, and he said they were not worth the money, and asked for the half-crown back; I gave it to him, and he gave me a shilling; I put it in my ticket-pockot by itself—he had a canvas bag like this (produced) on his left arm, and he gave me the shilling with his other hand; he had put the shilling I gave him into his left hand under the bag—about a quarter of an hour afterwards I found that the shilling he gave me was bad, and gave it to the sergeant—I saw the prisoner a fortnight afterwards at Bow Street.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I saw you in the market a few days afterwards, but did not give you in custody because the sergeant said I was to keep the money till he came round—I did not sell you the plants for fifteenpence—the sergeant described you as coming round with a bag and passing bad money for a long time previous, but I only saw you once afterwards till the sergeant fetched me—I am sure the shilling I gave you was good.

Re-examined. He bought the plant about 6.30 a.m., and I had had a warning from the sergeant before that, in consequence of which I put the shilling in my pocket, and when he came I found it was bad.

JOHN TAYLOR (Police Sergeant E 5). On 17th March I was on duty in plain clothes in Covent Garden Market, and watched the prisoner from 7 o'clock to 8.30 for a reason—on the 19th, about 4 a.m., I went to Mr. Froome and gave him instructions—I went to him after this transaction, and he produced a shilling from his pocket; it was bad; I bent it with my fingers and marked it—on the morning of 28th April I saw the prisoner going about the market in a suspicious manner with a bag on his left arm, going from one salesman to another—I watched him a very few minutes as I was in uniform—I caught him by the hand and said, "Give me that out of your hand"—he said, "I don't know what you mean"—he resisted, but I opened his hand and found this bad shilling (produced)—I bent it in my mouth, showed it to him, and said, "There you are"—I had to move the bag from his arm—I said, "I shall take you it custody for uttering one on 19th March to Mr. Froome"—he said, "I know nothing of it"—I took him to the station and found 8s. 6d. in good silver and 4d. in bronze—he was placed with six others, and Mr. Froome identified him.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am examiner of coins to the Mint—these coins are bad, and from different moulds.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I had the 1s. in my hand which I had taken for two plants which I had sold." He repeated this statement in his defence.


18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-541
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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541. CHARLES GIELS (24) , Unlawfully having counterfeit coin in his possession, with intent to utter it.


ELIZABETH CHILDS . My husband kept a sweetstuff shop in Hornsey Road, Islington, but we now live at 97A, Wellington Road—on April 28th, at 5.40 p.m., the prisoner came for some chocolate-cream; I had not any, and he bought some cocoa-nut chips, which cost 1 1/2 d., and gave me a half-crown—I gave him two shillings separate, and 4 1/2 d. in bronze—he left, and I then put the half-crown to my teeth and they sank into it—I ran out and saw him at the corner of Seven Sisters Road; he saw me running, and went round the corner—I went to him and said, "You have been in my shop and given me a bad half-crown"—he said, "It is not me; you have mistaken me for some one else"—I said, "I am sure it's you"—he said, "I have only a shilling with me, I have no sweets"—I had not said anything about sweets—I gave him in custody.

Cross-examined. He was over 150 yards from the shop then—there were other men at the corner, but not where I stopped the prisoner—he did not run—there was a girl in my shop at the time—while the prisoner was in custody two men came to my shop, and one said that he was the man who passed the bad half-crown, and he did not wish me to be the loser, and offered me another—I have not told any one that the man who came to the shop was pitted with small-pox—I have not said, "The man who came in was wearing an overcoat," nor did I say, "No, you are not the man, for the man who bought the sweets had small-pox marks on his face"—I had a policeman waiting in the shop—the gas was not lit when

the prisoner came—he did not stand with his back to the light, but side-ways—he was only a minute in the shop.

Re-examined. The men returned when the policeman was there—they said they did not want an honest man to be charged—I have no doubt the prisoner is the man—it was daylight—the man who came after and said that he did it, was not the man who did it.

WILLIAM GEORGE THOMSON . I am a grocer, of 194, Hornsey Road, five or six shops from Mr. Childs's—on 28th April, at 5.30, I saw a man outside my shop, with a handkerchief, rubbing something in his hand—I watched him—the prisoner then came up in a direction from Mrs. Childs'e with some sweets in his hand, and a stick under his arm—it was daylight—they were talking a minute in front of my shop, and then went on towards Seven Sisters Road—I did not see what the other man was polishing, but he was looking towards Mr. Childs's shop.

FANNY PAYNE . I am 11 years old—on 28th April, at 5 p.m., I was in Mrs. Childs's shop, and saw the prisoner there buying some sweets.

Cross-examined. Mrs. Childs brought me here to-day—I remember two men coming into her shop, and one said that he passed the half-crown—I remember Mrs. Childs saying that the man who bought the sweets was marked with small-pox on his face—I did not hear her say that he wore an overcoat; she said that to a woman in the shop when the men were there—it was the woman said that; she is a neighbour of mine—the prisoner has no small-pox marks on his face.

Re-examined. It was not Mrs. Childs who said that the prisoner had small-pox marks; it was Mrs. Langley, but Mrs. Childs was there when she said it—Mrs. Langley was not there when the prisoner came in.

CHARLES MILLER (Policeman). On 28th April, about 5.40 p.m., I was on duty in Seven Sisters Road, and saw Mrs. Childs talking to the prisoner—I went up, and she said that he had changed a bad half-crown at her shop—he said, "It was not me; you have made a mistake"—I took him in custody—he had this stick (produced) in his right hand—I took him by the left arm, and he shifted it into his left hand, put his right hand into his trousers pocket, pulled out a paper parcel, and threw it over the garden-wall of 97, Seven Sisters Road—Wood came to my assistance and took him to the station—I went into the garden of No. 97—Wood came back—we searched the garden and found four half-crowns there, and one on the pavement; I received another from Mrs. Childs—I searched the prisoner at the station, and found a good shilling, a bag of chocolate-cream, and this watch and chain (produced).

Cross-examined. These are not the sweets which Mrs. Childs sold to the prisoner—I was in uniform; the prisoner could see me; he did not attempt to run away—Mr. Thomson said that the other man was about the same age as the prisoner but shorter—the prisoner refused his address at the station, but afterwards gave it 57, Corney Road, and I went there—I know that he is respectably connected—I do not know that his late employer gave him this watch—he did not appear flabbergasted when I took him—I did not see the other man, and do not know whether he is known to the police—he did not say a man asked him to hold what was chucked over the wall.

Re-examined. He gave his name and address about five minutes after refusing it—I had said nothing to him in the interval—he said nothing about having the packet given him by somebody else.

CHARLES WOOD (Policeman Y 507). I was on duty in plain clothes, and saw the prisoner with Miller and Mrs. Childs—Miller took him in custody, and they came towards me—when they were about six yards from me he put his hand in his right trousers pocket, took something white out, and threw it over the wall of 97, Seven Sisters Road—I took him to the station while Miller went back—I afterwards went back, got admission to No. 97, which is surrounded by a high wall, and found in the garden this paper containing three counterfeit coins, and one had slipped out—it is the colour of the thing which I saw go over the wall—when the charge was taken the prisoner said "I would rather give this lady 20l. than she should prosecute"—he also said that he would admit pitching the half-crowns over the wall, but he did not pass the half-crown—the bag of sweets was found at the station, and Mrs. Childs said that they were not bought from her.

Cross-examined. The prisoner was not struggling to get away, only to get his hand into his pocket, but he did not go quietly after he had thrown them away, he struggled with us both in Hornsey Road—I made no note of my conversation with him—what he said was "I would rather give 20l. than this should have happened"—I do not think I mentioned at the police-court that he said "I admit throwing the half-crown over the wall"—tins is the first time I have mentioned it.

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . This single half-crown is bad, these four others are bad, and one is from the same mould as the one passed—they have been rubbed in the usual manner with tissue paper.

Cross-examined. The difficulty in making counterfeit coins is to get the knerling, but in an old half-crown it is more or less worn away—this is one of Geo. III., 1818.

ELIZA CHILDS (Re-examined). This single coin is the one tendered to me for the chips—I gave it to the constable.

Cross-examined. When I went up to the prisoner I charged him with passing a bad half-crown, but I did not say for sweets—he said "It is not me; I have not got any sweets; I have only a shilling on me, you can have that if you like. (The prisoner received an excellent character, and his late master, a jeweller, stated that he had presented him with the silver watch found on him on his leaving him, and would reinstate him in his former postion whatever the result of the trial might be.)

GUILTY.— Strongly recommended to mercy by the Jury.—Judgment respited.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-542
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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542. PETER COTTON (25) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.


CLARA RYE . I am barmaid at a restaurant, 74, Ludgate Hill—on April 20th, about 5 p.m., I served the prisoner with a glass of stout, price 2d.—he gave me a half-crown, and I gave him two shillings and fourpence is bronze—I put the half-crown in the till—he went out directly he had drunk the stout—Davidson then came in, and in consequence of what he said I went to the till and took out the half-crown—it was the only one there—I had not put any money in the till since—this is it (produced)—I saw it marked afterwards and kept it—about 9 o'clock on the same night the prisoner came in for some soda, price 2d., and gave me a shilling—I gave him the change—he had been in two or three times before.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. There was other silver in the till—you

gave me a good shilling at night—I gave the half-crown to the proprietor, Mr. Schooler—I had put it on the shelf as I was told.

Re-examined. When the detective came in the coin was put on the shelf, and when he came the second time it was marked—I know it by the mark—Mr. Schooler followed him out and gave him in charge.

WALTER OUTRAM (City Policeman 637). On 20th April, at 5.35, I saw the prisoner and another man on Ludgate Hill—he left the other man and went into the Cafe de Paris, No. 74—I met Detective Davidson, spoke to him, and watched the prisoner—we saw him come out—the other man was waiting 20 yards from the shop—he joined the prisoner in Ludgate Circus—I followed them through Bride Street and several little streets, and we lost sight of them in a court in Fetter Lane—I did not see the prisoner again till he was in custody.

JOHN DAVIDSON (City Detective). On 20th April shortly after 6 p.m. I went to the restaurant and Miss Rye showed me this half-crown—I then joined Outram and followed the prisoner and another man and lost sight of them in Fetter Lane—I then went back to the restaurant—Miss Rye produced the half-crown and I marked it in her presence.

Cross-examined. My impression is that the time was about 6.15. (The witness's deposition said 5.45.) I followed you because I did not like the look of the coin and put it on one side; had I known that it was bad I should have arrested you—I never saw you before.

JOHN JONES (City Policeman 489). The prisoner was given into my charge in Fleet Street, by Bride Lane, by Mr. Schooler, about 9 o'clock—I told him he would be charged with uttering a counterfeit half-crown about 6 o'clock on Ludgate Hill—he made no reply—he tried to get his right hand into his pocket, but I prevented him, took him to the station, and was going to search him, but he put his hand into his right hand pocket and took out three florins, a sixpence, four pence, and a bad half-crown—Miss Rye came and identified him.

Cross-examined. You said you had given a cabman who you did not Know, change for a half-crown; that referred to the one in your possession.

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . These coins are both bad, and from the same mould—a bad coin has a totally different ring to a good one.

Prisoner's Defence. If I had really uttered it I should not think of going hack a few hours afterwards. As to the coin found on me, I gave a cabman 2s. 6d. for it.

GUILTY* of uttering the first coin. Twelve Months' Hard Labour.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-543
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

543. HENRY CROSS (29) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.


RICHARD HENRY PHIPPS . I am barman at the Old Drury public-house, Catherine Street, Strand—on 27th April I served the prisoner with half a pint of ale; he paid me with two halfpence—a few minutes afterwards he asked me for a pennyworth of tobacco and put down a half-crown—I saw it was bad, put it under the engine and broke it, and he ran away—I jumped over the counter and told a constable to stop him—he was brought back and I charged him—these (produced) are the two pieces of the half-crown.

THOMAS COLLINS (Policeman C 347). I saw the prisoner run out of the Old Drury—I ran after him, overtook him in the Strand took him

back, and Mr. Phipps charged him—I said "Have you anything to say about the half-crown?" and he said "No"—I searched him in the bar and found a sixpence and 10 pence—the inspector at the station asked his address—he said "I refuse"—he was taken to the police-court the same afternoon and remanded for a week and gave his address—he gave me his brother's address, Bell Tavern, Spitalfields, and I went there—after the second remand he was committed for trial.

Cross-examined. No one else was running after you—I shouted out "Stop that man"—I was within three or four yards of you when you stopped and you could not have got away—your brother said that he gave you a shilling's worth of coppers that morning.

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . These pieces of coin are bad.

Prisoner's Defence. "I never knew I had a coin of the kind on me till the barman broke it; and then, thinking I was going to be locked up, I thought the wisest thing was to go. I refused my address because I have got respectable friends and I hoped I should get off; but when I was brought up a second time I gave my brother's address. I received the coin for holding a horse."

GUILTY .— Four Months' Hard Labour.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-544
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

544. DANIEL MCGREGOR (34) PLEADED GUILTY ** to unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin twice on the same day.— Nine Months' Hard Labour.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-545
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceNo Punishment

Related Material

545. EDWARD RUSSELL (17) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.


ARTHUR BENHAM . I am 11 years old, and live at 5, Nye Street, Poplar—on 11th April I was in Duff Street, Poplar, about 8 p.m., and the prisoner came and said "Will you go over to the African and get me half a quartern of rum and I will give you a halfpenny"—he gave me a half-crown—I sounded it on the pavement and said "Is it good?"—he said "Yes, it is a good one"—he said that he did not like to go to the African because his father was in there—I went there and gave it to Mrs. Kirkby for the rum—she sounded it on the counter, tried it in her mouth, and said "You had better take that half-crown where you came from; who sent you with this?"—I told her, and went out to look for the prisoner, but he was gone—I afterwards picked him out from other men at the station.

AMY KIRKBY . I am a widow, and keep the African Tavern. Grundv Street, Poplar—on 11th April, about 8.30 p.m., Benham came in and handed me a half-crown—I saw that it was bad, and told him to go outside to the person who sent him, and he went out—I kept the coin and nailed it on a post in my bar.

DAVID THOMAS HOLMES . I keep a general shop at 78, High Street, Poplar—on 24th April, about 8 p.m.. the prisoner came in for a pennyworth of Hill's tobacco—he laid down a shilling—I picked it up, and told my wife to give him the change, and he left—I afterwards tried it and found it was bad—I found the prisoner in three or four minutes, and said "That shilling you gave me is bad; give me 11d. change and the tobacco"—he said "I will when I get home;" but at the shop he said "I have not got it; I gave it to my companion; both the 11d. change and the tobacco"—I saw a man with him about a hand taller than himself—I gave him in custody with the shilling; this is it.

Cross-examined. You said. "Me and my chum carried a bag from Cable Street, St. George's-in-the-East, to the East India Docks, and a sailor gave me a shilling, if you like to come back I will show you the man," but I thought it was a risk to run to go back as it was a dull part.

GEORGE HIGGINS (Policeman K 400). The prisoner was given into my charge—he said that he and his companion had brought a sailor's bag to the East India Docks, who gave his companion a shilling, who gave it to him to purchase the tobacco, and he did not know it was bad, and that his companion was Murphy, who lived over Tower Hill—I saw no companion—no tobacco was found on him.

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . These coins are both bad.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "It is false what that boy swears."

Prisoner's Defence. I am not guilty of the half-crown, but I took the shilling the chap gave me; when the man came and said it was bad I said, "Lay hold of that chap," the chap who gave me the tobacco.

GUILTY of the uttering to Mr. Kirkby.Discharged.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-346
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

346. JOHN BAKER (18) , Unlawfully having counterfeit coin in his possession, with intent to utter it.


CHARLES NEWBOUND (Policeman C 428). On 1st May, about 7 p.m., I was on duty in uniform in Carlisle Street, Soho, and saw the prisoner with other lads—I walked towards them, and he ran away; I followed him, and he was stopped—I told him I should take him to the station on suspicion of stealing a lady's bag—he said, "All right"—as he ran away I saw him throw something in newspaper into the public garden of Soho Square—Puncher got over into the square and picked up five counterfeit half-crowns and a piece of newspaper which was lying beside them—the prisoner said that he knew nothing about them.

PHILIP PUNCHER (Policeman C 106). I was on duty and saw the prisoner running round Soho Square and Newbound after him—I caught him—while he was running he threw something out of his right trousers pocket over the railings—I handed him to Newbound, got over into the square, and found five half-crowns, which appeared to have burst out of this paper—I showed them to the prisoner—he said, "You have made a mistake this time"—I went to the square again next morning, and found this other half-crown (produced), which I marked.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These coins are all bad, and from three different moulds—the last one found is from the same mould as one of the others.

Prisoner's Defence. They do not belong to me; they were lying there, and I passed, and the constable after me, and they caught his eye.

GUILTY . There was another indictment for larceny against the prisoner.*— Two Years' Hard Labour.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-347
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

347. EDWARD DAVIS (18) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.


GEORGE WIMPERY . I keep a provision shop at 10, Leonard Square, shoreditch—on 28th April, about noon, I served the prisoner with two eggs—he gave me a shilling; I gave him a sixpence and four pence—after he had left I found the shilling was bad and went after him, but could not find him—on 2nd May he came again about 9.45 p.m. for two penny eggs, and gave me a bad shilling—I knew him as soon as I saw

him, told him it was bad, and gave him in charge—he said that he took it at a fair in the City—I said, "The shilling you gave me before was bad"—he said that he had never been in the shop before—I gave him in custody with the shilling.

The Prisoner. I am guilty of the one on 2nd May, but not of this.

SUSAN CARLIER . My husband is a draper, of 9, Leonard Square, Shore-ditch—on 30th April, between 5 and 6 o'clock, the prisoner came in for a collar and put down a half-crown, saying to the shop girl, "Will you give change for this half-crown?"—she gave him four sixpences, and he left—I went after him, but could not find him—I afterwards gave the coin to the constable—I picked the prisoner out from others at the station on 4th May—this is the half-crown (produced), I know it by the scratches on the back and the marks I made.

ISABELLA LLOYD . I am shop woman to Mr. Carlier—on 30th April the prisoner came in and asked me for a 14 1/2 turn-down collar, price 6d., and gave me a half-crown—I passed it to Mrs. Carlier and asked her for change, and then gave the prisoner four sixpences out of the till—this is the half-crown.

THOMAS HONEY (Policeman G 55). On 2nd May I was called to Wimpery's shop, and the prisoner was given into my charge—he said, "If it is a bad shilling I know where I got it, at the Fancy Fair in the City Road"—there was such a fair—Mr. Wimpery said, "He was here last Sunday morning and gave me a bad shilling"—the prisoner said, "You have made a mistake, you have never seen me here before"—I found a good shilling on him—he said at the station that he lived in a street leading out of Bunhill Row, but did not know the name of it or the number—I received two bad shillings from Wimpery, and a half-crown from Mrs. Carlier.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These coins are bad.

Prisoner's Defence. I had a swing at the fair and changed a half-crown, and received two shillings and five pence change. I went into the shop and put the shilling down, but I was never in the shop before.

GUILTY .*— Eighteen Months' Hard Labour.

FOURTH COURT.—Tuesday, May 19th, 1885.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-348
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

348. ARTHUR BROWN (18) PLEADED GUILTY to burglary in the dwelling-house of William Hunt and stealing eight packets of tobacco and 2l. 9s. 1 1/2 d., his goods and moneys, and to other counts for breaking out, and receiving.— Twelve Months' Hard Labour.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-349
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

349. JANE EVANS (47) to burglary in the dwelling-house of Henry Alfred Ackerman and stealing a bottle of gin and one bottle.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Twelve Months' Hard Labour.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-350
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

350. THOMAS HATSWELL (19) to stealing in the dwelling-house of John Harris Hough a box and 27l., and afterwards burglariously breaking out in the night.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Two Years' Hard Labour.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-351
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

351. ALFRED WRIGHT** (56) to unlawfully obtaining by false pretences from Veer Palmer and others two hearthrugs and other goods, and to a conviction of felony in June, 1882, in the name of Frederick Wright.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Five Years' Penal Servitude. And

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-352
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

352. FREDERICK NEWLAND (45) to burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Aaron William Orme, with intent to steal, and to a conviction of felony in June, 1881, at the Sessions House, Clerkenwell Green, in the name of William Wright.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-353
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

353. WALTER SULLIVAN (22) , Stealing in the dwelling-house of Richard Mason 2,200 cigars and 22 boxes, his goods, and afterwards breaking out of the same.

MR. WOODGATE Prosecuted.

MARK UNDKRWOOD (Policeman H 347). I was in Oxford Street. Stepney, on 28th April, opposite the British Oak public-house—I watched the prisoner from Haven Street where I could see the public-house quite plainly—I saw the door opened from the inside, and the prisoner and another man came out—I remained in a doorway till they got opposite, when I caught hold of the prisoner; the other man ran away—the cigars and two boxes produced were in the prisoner's possession—I asked him what he had, and he replied "Nothing"—I asked him where he was going, he said "To work"—we struggled for some minutes—I took him back to the public-house—I found the door open—I called the landlord up and he charged the prisoner—he made no reply—I examined the house—the back window was open in the bar-parlour; everything was strewn about the bar-parlour—I produce a knife found on the prisoner.

Cross-examined. I saw you loitering about.

RICHARD MASON . I keep the British Oak—about 2.45 a.m. on 28th April I was awoke by a constable—I found the prisoner in custody—the cigars, &c., produced are mine—the place was strewn all over with cigar boxes—everything was all cleared up when I went to bed—when I came down the door was open—I missed 22 or 23 boxes of cigars, a quantity of spirits, and a greatcoat, some tobacco, and 8s. or 10s. of coppers—the value altogether was about 24l.—the latch of the window to the bar-parlour might not have been fastened, but the door was.

Prisoner's Defence. Coming up by the London Hospital a man asked me to lend him a handkerchief. I lent him one, he wrapped up these boxes of cigars, and said "Put them under your arm and come with me, and I'll give you some coffee." We walked up the street and a policeman caught hold of me and said "Where are you going?" I said "I'm going to look for employment." He did not ask me where I had got the things, or I should have told him.

GUILTY . He also PLEADED GUILTY to a conviction at this Court in January, 1884, of uttering counterfeit coin.— Eighteen Months' Hard Labour.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-354
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

354. HENRY DRUMMOND (27) , Unlawfully assaulting George Sale, and causing him actual bodily harm.


MARY ANN FARRINGDON . I am the wife of James Farringdon, of No. 4, Cumming Street, Islington—on 24th March, about 1.45 p.m., I was walking along Edward Street—at the corner of No. 6 I saw a disturbance—the door of No. 6 was open a little way—I crossed the road—the prisoner threw the old gentleman into the road on the kerb by the collar of this coat—there was some loud talking, I could not hear what it was—I assisted him up—his elbow was a little grazed—he complained to his arm, hip, and leg—we leaned him against the parlour window-ledge—I called the prisoner a brute—he said "What do you know of this, you

cow?" and shut the door—I left the old man—about 4.30 I saw Sale opposite his own residence trying to open the door.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I saw Mrs. Margary there afterwards—she assisted me with the old gentleman—you did not say "You know nothing of this row"—I said "I'll say nothing more to you, you pig."

Re-examined. I afterwards picked the prisoner out of six or seven men.

MARIA AGER . The prisoner lodged at my house, No. 6, Edward Street, Barnsbury, for three years—Mr. Sale, the deceased, lodged there nine months—he was an old man of 70—on 24th March I was at home all day with the prisoner and Mr. Sale—Sale went out for drink several times—about 2 o'clock the prisoner was in the lobby—Mr. Sale was going out again to fetch more drink in—the prisoner asked him if he was going for more, and said he ought to be ashamed to bring more in; he knew I was not accustomed to drink—Sale said he should fetch what he chose to—the prisoner then put his hand on his shoulder, gave him a slight push, and shut the door—I went out and asked him to come in, and where he was hurt—he said on his elbow—I went to the door several times after that and asked him to come in—he said he would not—I afterwards saw him across the road looking in at the milk-shop window—I went the next day to the hospital and he told me he fell down in the street, and he thought he hurt his hip or his thigh.

ELIZABETH JANE MARGARY . I am the wife of Thomas Margary, of 70, Chapel Street, Islington—I was going into the shop opposite, No. 6, Edward Street, about 1.45—the door of No. 6 opened suddenly—the prisoner threw Sale out on to his left side—he saved his head with his elbow, and rolled into the gutter from the kerb—the prisoner had hold of his coat and collar—I helped to pick him up—Mrs. Ager came to the door, but he would not go in—he was holding his side—I took him to the White Conduit public-house opposite afterwards, and got him some reviving mixture—he called for a glass of old else and a pennyworth of gin, then a pennyworth of tobacco and a pipe; after that he had a fit—he walked outside, and was brought in by two men—Sale was a fine, tall, fresh gentleman.

ROBERT HARDMAN . I saw the prisoner take hold of Sale by the shoulder and shove him into the street—he fell into the gutter—I saw him assisted up—he put his hand on his hip, and leaned against the doorpost—the push was not violent.

Cross-examined. I did not see Mrs. Margary; I saw Farringdon—I did not see Sale afterwards till he was brought back to the public-house in a wheelbarrow.

CHARLES BERRY (Policeman Y). On 7th April I arrested the prisoner at 11 o'clock at night, in 6, Edward Street—I said, "I am going to take you into custody, Drummond, for causing the death of George Sale"—he said, "What do you think I shall get for this? he wanted to bring grog into the house, and I would not let him, and I pushed him out."

LOUISA BONSET . I live at the White Conduit public-house—the prosecutor came there about 3.15 p.m. on 25th March, with a woman—he asked for some tobacco and some ale, and sat down—I saw him go out—about 10 minutes afterwards he was brought in by two men—I did not see anything the matter with him.

CHARLES LEAR . I am the potman at the White Conduit—on 24th

March I was outside the public-house at 1.30—I saw a man thrown out of No. 6, Edward Street—he fell into the gutter—some women picked him up—I saw him again at 2.45, going across the road—he walked with great difficulty—he nearly fell against a lamp-post; his legs seemed to give way from under him—a man caught hold of him—he came in and took a seat—I was sent away for some hot water, and when I returned he was in a fit.

The prisoner in his defence said that Sale had been drinking and wanted to fetch in more drink; he merely gave him a shove and shut the door, but had no intention to hurt him. He did not want him to annoy the landlord, so told him to wait outside till the landlord came home.


18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-355
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

355. DAVID HARRIS (24) , Stealing a gelding, set of harness, and a cab, of Samuel Gotts.

MR. WOODGATE Prosecuted.

MARK EDWARD BLAKE (City Policeman 763). I was off duty, and in plain clothes, on 17th April, at 10.15 p.m., I saw the prisoner coming in and out of the Swan public-house—I watched him—he looked through the glass door—he jumped on the box of a hansom cab and drove away over London Bridge—I spoke to the cabman—I followed him over the bridge—he saw me running, and whipped his horse up—I got a lift in a spring-cart and overtook him in Southwark Street—I said, "What are you doing with this cab?"—he made no reply—I said, "I shall take you to the station and charge you with stealing it"—on the way he said, "He told me to take it home"—I said, "He had given you no leave to take it away."

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You were sober.

SAMUEL GOTT . I am a cabdriver, No. 10,490—I live at 6, Cobden Street, St. George's Road, Camberwell—on 17th April I went into the Swan public-house, leaving my horse and cab outside; they are worth about 45l.—Blake spoke to me; in consequence I went out, and found that my cab was gone—I gave the prisoner no leave to take it.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I did not leave you to mind it; I left a boy to mind it.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I was the worse for drink. I did not know what I was doing; that is all I have to say."

GUILTY .—He also PLEADED GUILTY* to a conviction of felony in October, 1880, at the Westminster Police-court.— Eighteen Months' Hard Labour.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-356
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

356. THOMAS CONS (18) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of James Williamson, and stealing a cash-box, seven keys, and 5l. 15s.

GEORGE MAUNDER (City Policeman 139). I was on duty at 4.30 on 7th May, in Silver Street—I saw the prisoner with another man not in custody—he came out from 13, Silver Street—they saw me, and ran away—I gave chase into Monkwell Street, Fell Street, and Wood Street—they dropped a cash-box in Fell Street; in Wood Street they threw a knife away—the prisoner was stopped by another constable—I took him to the station—I found on him 1l. 5s. 6d. in silver, and 11 1/4 d. in bronze, and some matches—they slammed the door in Silver Street; after them—I went back to Silver Street and examined the door—I saw marks on the door and on the fanlight—I had tried the doors half an hour before; this door was closed and secure—I never lost sight of the prisoner.

RICHARD POTTERELL (City Policeman 116). I heard Maunder call "Stop thief," saw the prisoner and stopped him, and delivered him into Maunders's custody—I picked up a cash-box in Fell Street.

JAMES WILLIAMSON . I am a licensed victualler at the Coopers' Arms, 13, Silver Street—I sleep on the premises—I examined the door at 10 o'clock the previous night and found it fastened—that is the door at the corner of Monkwell Street—the following morniug I heard the doorslam—I went downstairs, and let in the inspector, who inspected the premises—this cash-box contained keys of our neighbours, put in our charge and 5l. 15s., all was safe overnight—once inside one has access over the house—this knife belongs to the prisoner, it was lying alongside the till—the front door bolts with a bolt at the top and one at the bottom—there is a fanlight over 49 inches long by 9 inches deep and it is fastened with a hook and eye—I also found some matches in the drawer of the till, of the same kind as those found on the prisoner and quite different to those used in our business.

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Hard Labour.

OLD COURT.—Wednesday, May 20th, and Thursday, May 2lst, 1885.

Before Mr. Justice Hawkins.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-357
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

357. THOMAS WILLIAM JOHN RICKETTS PLEADED GUILTY to feloniously carnally knowing and abusing Florence Emily Grey, aged seven years.— Nine Months' Hard Labour.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-358
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

358. WILLIAM JOSEPH TURNER , Feloniously killing and slaying James F. Wingrove.



JAMES GRAVES WINGROVE . I live at 203, Mare Street, Hackney—the deceased was my son, he would have been 11 years old in another week—I did not see the accident, but I went out to see what was the matter and saw him being carried to the doctor's—this (produced) is the basket he was carrying, it contained two dozen of mangling.

WILLIAM HUSSEY . I am a flower seller, of 9, Allen Street, Commercial Road—on 4th April I was in Mare Street selling flowers about 6.15 p.m. on the left-hand side of the road, going from London to Hackney—that is the side opposite Weston Place—I heard somebody shout, turned round and saw a lad crossing the road from Weston Place carrying a basket of washing or mangling on his left shoulder—the horse caught him and knocked him down directly; the horse was in a Hansom's cab, which the prisoner was driving—I saw the right wheel go over the boy—I picked him up directly, put him on my shoulder, and ran with him to the doctor's, I noticed no other cab—he was knocked down just by the first metal, the reverse side from me.

Cross-examined. The first metal would not be in the centre of the road, but the boy lay about the centre—what took place was behind me, but it caused me to turn round.

By the COURT. The boy was bleeding—I was almost standing in the gutter—my back was towards the road; I was facing the footpath, I was on the same side as the Dolphin public-house (Looking at a plan), and the accident was very nearly behind me—I was standing in the

gutter beyond Fortescue Avenue—there is only one line of rail on the tram road.

JOHN ROLAND JAMESON . I know this locality well, I made this rough sketch—I have measured a number of distances in Mare Street—Mare Street is 23 feet 4 inches wide at the corner of Weston Place from kerb to kerb; the right-hand kerb is 9 feet from the right-hand tram line—from the corner of Weston Place to the corner of Fortescue Avenue is 22 1/2 yards diagonally from kerb to kerb—the Gladstone public-house is on the same side as Weston Place, nearer Hackney—it is 33 yards from the corner of Weston Place to the Gladstone, and on the opposite side there is the Dolphin public-house—that is 48 yards from the corner of Weston Place; it is 300 yards from the triangle to the corner of Weston Place—there is a monument in the centre of the triangle, I measured from the part which is nearest to Cambridge Heath—the road is not exactly straight from the triangle to Weston Place, but there is nothing to prevent you seeing down it—Ash Grove is farther away towards Cambridge Heath; it is 400 yards from Western Place, and farther up that road is Cambridge Heath Bridge—that is another 150 yards beyond Ash Grove.

Cross-examined. The prisoner was brought in at 6.30; he was perfectly sober.

GEORGE CANNING . I am a carman—on April 4th, about 6.30, I was driving in a cart over the bridge from Cambridge Heath towards the Triangle, three Hansom's cabs passed me going 16 or 17 miles an hour—the prisoner was driving one of them; but they kept passing each other, one with a black horse got ahead and then stopped for the others after they had passed me; they were close behind one another; the horses' heads were right at the backs of the other cabs—after they passed me I saw a man standing on the step of one cab, hitting the horse with a whip to make him go faster; the driver was on the box; that was the last cab; they then passed out of my sight—I continued on to where the accident had happened and found the boy lying in the road—I got down, and saw the prisoner standing by his cab, which was outside Fortescue Avenue.

Cross-examined. I have not had much experience in horses—when I say that they were going 16 or 17 miles an hour, I mean it—they were three Hansom's cabs; there is no mistake about that—I did not see a newly-painted waggon going along—they passed me very rapidly, but they got stopped by things coming in another direction—the only opportunity I had of seeing them was when they passed me—there was a fare in one of them; but I can't say if the prisoner had a fare or not—he was driving the middle cab; but afterwards the first one got behind—I had not got them in sight more than five minutes—I was going about six miles an hour; my horse was trotting.

By the COURT. They passed me just by Cambridge Heath where the tram is single—the prisoner's cab had drawn up to the kerb at Fortescue Avenue when I got up.

EDGAR FITCH . I am a carman—I was at the corner of Hackney Road and saw three Hansom's cabs coming down Hackney Road, which runs from Shoreditch Church into Cambridge Heath Road; they were on the London side of Cambridge Heath Bridge and about a quarter of a mile from it; they were going I should think 8 or 10 miles an hour; they steadied themselves and went quietly two abreast and one behind—they

did not pass me till I gave my horse some water at the Triangle—they steadied themselves there because there was a pointsman there—they kept altering their pace, first slow and then sharp, and one would wait for the other, and then they would go on again—two policemen at the Triangle held up their hands, and I saw the cabs pass the Triangle—after I had watered my horse I went down Mare Street and saw the cab which knocked the boy down, pull up just past the Dolphin—I saw the man with the boy on his back directly he was knocked down; that was just by a butter shop, and nearly opposite Fortescue Avenue—I did not see the boy knocked down, but I saw blood stains where he had fallen; the cab had stopped not above 10 yards from that spot—he must have pulled up in about the length of a cab—the blood stains were about three yards from the kerb on the off side—the tram runs nearly in the middle of the road and they were between the tram and the kerb, not between the two tram lines; as you go from London it was on the Weston Place side, the off side going to Hackney.

Cross-examined. One cab had a fare inside, that was one of the two which went away—I had the cabs in view from the time they passed me till they got to the place of the accident; neither of them stopped till it happened—when they passed me I was 20 or 30 yards from the place where it happened—I am sure that neither of them pulled up to put a fare down, before they reached the scene of the accident; they steadied as they passed Morley Hall, when the constables held up their hands.

Re-examined. They then went on pretty steadily as far as the constable could see, and then they started again—the fare was two men; I do not know whether they were fares or friends.

FRANK SAVILLE (Policeman N 172). On 4th April, about 6.30, I was with Doncaster on duty at the triangle, on the opposite side of the road, the side nearest the Cambridge Heath bridge, and saw three Hansom's cabs coming along from Cambridge Heath bridge, following each other 20 or 30 yards apart, about the rate of 10 miles an hour; I stepped into the road and told them that they had better pull up; that was because they were recklessly driving; they then steadied, passed me, and went down Mare Street; the prisoner was driving the first cab.

Cross-examined. There is a fixed point at the triangle for any one who wants to find a policeman; it was my duty to stop there; Doncaster was acting sergeant, he was close by me; all three cabs had a fare.

Re-examined. There was a lady and gentleman in one cab, and two gentlemen in another, and one gentleman in the third—I do not know whether they were fares or friends.

By the COURT. After they steadied they went on steadily as far as I could see, but I could not see far because of the bend; I could not see down Mare Street as far as Weston Place, only about half way, as far as the chapel, that is 20 or 30 yards before you come to the Dolphin.

JOHN ROLAND JAMESON (Re-examined). The chapel is exactly half way between the Hackney end of the Triangle and the Dolphin, which is about fifty yards from the chapel—the chapel is on the same side as the Dolphin—there was nothing to impede my view from the Triangle to Weston Place, but the constable was round the bend—I speak of a person standing in the centre of the Triangle—it is called a triangle, but it is not a triangle at all—there is a chapel on one side and a public-house on the other—

the Wesleyan chapel is midway between the Triangle and the Dolphin on the left, and there is a Roman Catholic chapel on the right.

GEORGE DONCASTER (Policeman N 193). I was at the Triangle when the accident happened—I saw three Hansom's cabs coming from Cam-bridge Heath bridge—I was at the corner of King Edward's Road—that is opposite Morley Hall on the opposite side to the Dolphin, and about 400 yards from the corner of West Street—I was on the right side as you go down Hackney Road, and about 15 yards from Saville on the opposite side—the cabs were coming about 10 miles an hour—I shouted out to them "Be careful," and they walked—they were following each other when they passed me, and were about 10 yards apart—I could see 100 or 150 yards down Mare Street—after that I lost sight of them—they continued to go steadily as long as I saw them.

Cross-examined. I could not see as far as the Dolphin—I could see 150 yards down the road, but the Dolphin is 350 yards down—I noticed there was one gentleman in the first cab, but I don't think there was any one in the other two.

Re-examined. I do not know whether it was a fare or a friend.

WILLIAM BEAR . I am a carpenter—I was in the front of the Dolphin and saw three Hansom's cabs pass me—the prisoner was driving the last one, the one on the right-hand side—they were not going abreast, but one in front of the other, not exactly in front but in an oblique direction, stretching across the road—they very nearly occupied the whole road, one in the middle and one on each side—they were going from 9 to 10 miles an hour—the prisoner was driving the cab on the right-hand side, the farthest from me—I did not see the accident, but I went to the spot after the boy had been taken away, and saw blood on the right side of the road between the tram metal and the kerb—the prisoner's cab was then on the opposite side of the road to where the accident occurred—the head of his horse was just by Sorrell's the tailor's shop—I did not see any other vehicle in the road when the cabs passed.

Cross-examined. The prisoner's was the third cab—they passed me 40 or 50 yards from the accident—the third cab had then passed me—I did not notice any one in the prisoner's cab, but I saw two persons in one cab, but in which I can't swear—I will not swear whether the other cabs had fares, but I almost think there were fares in two of the cabs—I am uncertain, and should not like to be pressed about it.

CHARLES RUTT (Policeman N 656). I was on duty in Mare Street—I did not see the accident—I saw the boy being taken into a doctor's, and saw blood on the road by Weston Place, about three yards and a half from the kerb, between the kerb and the tram rail, and nearer to the tram rail than the kerb—it was about a foot from the tram rail—a Hansom's cab was stopping against Fortescue Avenue, and the prisoner was about 50 yards from it, speaking to one of his witnesses, a lady and gentleman, and taking their names and addresses—I asked him if he was the driver of the cab standing up the road—he said "Yes"—I told him he would have to go with me to the station—he said "All right."

HENRY YOUNGMAN . I am 11 years old—I knew the boy who was killed—I saw him come out of Weston Place that evening, carrying a basket of mangling on his left shoulder—I was outside my father's shop, which is on the same side of the street as Weston Place—it is two shops up, between the Gladstone and Weston Place—the boy came slanting

over the road as if he was going to Fortescue Avenue—the cabs were coming towards the Town Hall from the direction of the triangle—I saw a Hansom first and then a four-wheeler—I only saw two cabs—they were side by side—the boy was as far from me as that wall when I first saw him—the cabs were coming very rapidly, and I halloaed to give the boy an alarm—the horse was then just up to him, and it kicked him and knocked him down, and the wheel went over his neck—he was about the first tram metal then—the cab drove drove on about 20 yards and then pulled up, and the driver got down—the other cab went on—there was a coal waggon standing at the corner of the Gladstone then but not all the while—I was at my father's door—there was nothing else about.

Cross-examined. The driver was not standing with the waggon—it was standing nearer to the triangle than the Gladstone—the boy carried the linen on his shoulder in such a position as to hide the cab from him—the Hansom was the nearest cab to me.

Witnesses for the Defence.

EDWIN LUFF . I am a wire worker—I was in Mare Street on this day about 6.30, walking towards London on the right-hand side—I saw a boy come from a van which was standing on my left hand close against the kerb—he had a basket of washing on his left shoulder, which entirely hid the cab from him—I heard two shouts—I expect it was from the van, but I can't say—one I believe was from the cabman, and the boy seemed confused, and hardly knew which way to turn, and knocked up against the shaft of the cab, which knocked him down and the wheel passed over his neck—it might be a minute after that two Hansom cabs passed by—the driver of the cab which knocked the boy down pulled up as soon as he could and got down—he stopped a very few yards from where the boy was knocked down—I saw a man in the cab as it came towards me, but I don't know what became of him—the cab was going six or seven, or it might be eight miles an hour.

Cross-examined. I was about 50 yards up Mare Street—I only saw one van, it was stationary; I was on the opposite side to it—I have no experience of horses or of driving—I think the cabman thought that he had cleared the boy; he pulled to his right-hand side of the road, and the boy attempted to go back—I believe I heard two shouts, but I cannot say where they came from—the policeman took my name as a witness—I did not see a four-wheeler—after the accident one Hansom's cab passed on the same side as the van was—they pulled off the cab and went by it—the cab was on the other side from me before it was pulled up, which was about a minute after the accident; he pulled up as soon as he possibly could.

Re-examined. The boy moved forward, and then retraced his steps, and the Hansom caught him and knocked him down—the cab might have been a yard or two from him when I first saw him, because the road is very narrow, and when there is a cab on one side and other vehicles on the other there is not room for anything to come along—I believe the boy had got across the first tram line, and the cab was within a yard or two of him—his basket of washing prevented him seeing the cab—the wheel of the cab was not close to the van, there was a yard and a half or two yards between them, I cannot say positively—the cab was going between six and eight miles an hour, an ordinary pace, and if the boy had not turned it would have cleared him I believe, if he had not

retraced his steps—the boy seemed to be in the centre of the road, just where the accident occurred—I should say he had only 10 seconds of time.

WALTER DERBY . I am a warehouseman—I was in Mare Street on the right-hand side from here, going towards Hackney Town Hall from Cambridge Heath; that is the same side as Weston Place; I was about 20 yards from Weston Place, opposite Sorrell's, the tailor's—I heard a shouting, and saw the boy crossing in the middle of the road—he had passed one tram rail and had got near the other, as near as I could see—it is only a single line—he got confused with the shouting, and retraced his steps to go back to where he started from—he got back between the metals and ran under the horse's feet, and the prisoner pulled to the off side, and the boy seemed doing the best he could to extricate himself, but he got entangled with the horse's feet and knocked down, and the horse trod on him, and the cab went over his neck, and the cabman pulled up directly—I do not know what pace the cab was going, as I did not notice it till it was on the boy—I did not notice a waggon or van, but I believe there was one standing against the Gladstone; that is some little distance off—I had not passed any van that I noticed—I did not turn back, the cab pulled up where I was standing.

Cross-examined. I had crossed the end of Weston Place, and had not noticed any waggon or van standing against the kerb—when I heard the shout, the boy was in front of me in the road, I had not to turn round to see him, he was in a direct line—I did not hear the shouting till the cab was nearly on him; when I heard the shout he was under the horse's feet—I had not noticed him till I heard the shout—he was nearly in the middle of the two tram rails when he was knocked down—he was nearly on the kerb when I first saw him, but he turned back; he would have got there if he had not retraced his steps—I do not know whether he exactly reached the first tram line because I was not in the road—I said before the Magistrate that I believed I saw a coal-waggon standing there, but would not swear it.

WILLIAM ANDREWS . I am a boot and shoe manufacturer—me and my good lady were going down Mare Street at the corner of Weston Place towards the railway-station—we turned to the right some yards away from the Gladstone—the station is by the Gladstone—I saw the little boy in the road near the kerb on the right side, on which I was; he might have been in the gutter—I looked to my left and saw the cab coming along; I called to the boy to get out of the road, but he did not move, he kept to the kerb; I halloaed again as loud as I could, "Get out of the road, my boy"—the cabman pulled to the right, and the boy made a move; he moved a few paces when the cabman pulled to the right—he could not keep on his left side because there was a big coal-waggon there—no doubt I could have seen the tram rails where I was, but I did not look—the boy was near the kerb when I first saw him.

Cross-examined. I may have called out three times—the cab was some yards off him when I first called out—he was coming down the middle of the road—it is not a very wide road—the waggon was at the side of Fortescue Avenue, near a confectioner's, on the other side to me and on this side of Fortescue Avenue, to the best of my recollection.

MR. PURCELL proposed that the witness should read his deposition to refresh his memory as to the facts, and referred to the case Reg. v. Williams, 6 Cox's Criminal Cases, p. 343, where a witness was allowed to do so. SIR

HENRY HAWKINS refused to allow the deposition to be used for the purpose proposed, stating that the deposition of a witness could not be used by the party calling him, for any other purpose than to contradict him, or to show that on a previous occasion he had made a statement inconsistent with his present evidence; and, further, that even if used and read for such purpose, it could not be treated as evidence of the facts deposed in it, but only as affecting the reliability of the testimony given by the witness in the box, as to which the Jury must decide for themselves.

The prisoner received a good character.


The COURT refused to allow the expenses of the witness Andrews.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-359
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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359. JOHN SOULSBY (37) , Feloniously wounding Mary Ann Soulsby, with intent to murder her. Second Count, to do her grievous bodily harm.

MR. POYNTER Prosecuted.

MARY ANN SOULSBY . I am the prisoner's wife—we live in one room at 198, Gray's Inn Road—we have four children, Arthur, 15, Alice, 10, Albert, 7, and the baby 2 years old—on Tuesday night, April 7th, about 12.15, I was sitting by the side of the bed in a chair—the baby was in bed; the prisoner was sitting by the side of the table very close—Arthur and Albert were in bed, Alice was up, near the table—the prisoner was sober; he had been taking a little, but not much—he said nothing, but kept looking at me, and kept bringing his chair closer and closer to me, and then he bounced quick upon me—I felt him stab me seven times, but did not see any knife—he commenced on my head and eye, and the last on my collar-bone—he put his hand to my chin and held my head up while he was doing it—he had been knocking me about in the morning, and he hit me and punched me on my mouth, and used very bad language—he was sober in the morning; I don't think he had any money to get any drink—there was no cause for it in the morning, nor did he say that there was, but he was always going on at me, and quarrelling, and not letting me have any peace—he was always using threats that he would rip me open—on this previous Thursday evening he came home from work and sharpened a knife, and said he meant to kill two; he should murder two—one was me, and I suppose the other was his brother, because he was always speaking about him, he hated him so much—this (produced) is the knife he was sharpening—he had his hat ready, to start directly he had done it, and he went away very quickly—I was taken to the hospital, and was there a fortnight.

ARTHUR SOULSBY . I am the prisoner's son, and am 15 years old—he is a bookbinder—on Tuesday night, April 7th, near 12 o'clock, I was in bed and asleep—I was awoke by the children screaming—there was a light in the room, and I saw my father stabbing my mother about her face and neck—my sister Alice took the knife away, and I got my father from my mother—my mother ran out to the neighbours—the prisoner walked out of the house, and the police were fetched.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. My mother did not take up a knife beforehand, nor did I say, "You are always taking up a knife and saying that you are going to stab father"—I never saw my mother take up a knife to stab you—she told you to hold your row—I never saw her threaten you.

ALICE SOULSBY . I am 10 years old, the prisoner is my father—I was

standing by my mother on this night, and the baby was asleep in the bed; my mother was going to get up from the chair, and my father kept rubbing his chair closer and closer, and then he pulled out the knife and stabbed mother—me and my little brother cried and I got out of bed—I went to my father to help my mother and took the knife out of his hand; this is it—he went away—I got a policeman and gave him the knife.

Cross-examined. My mother had not been quarrelling with you all day—she did not go out in the morning, nor did you ask her where she had been, nor did she say that was her business.

ALFRED MESSITER (Policeman E 259). On 7th April, about 11.45, I was fetched by a little girl to the prisoner's house, and saw the prosecutrix bleeding very much from wounds in her face and neck—I took her to the Royal Free Hospital, Gray's Inn Road—I saw the prisoner at Bow Street Station between 3 and 4 a.m., and told him he would be charged with stabbing and attempting to murder his wife—he said "How is she? I hope the b—is dead, and I shall be hung for it, we shall be both out of the way"—he was sober—Alice Soulsby gave me this knife; she had it in her hand when she called me—it had blood on it, but she wiped it off.

HENRY WORTH DODD, M.D . I am house surgeon at the Royal Free Hospital—Mary Ann Soulsby was admitted there on 7th April, at 11.45, in a very weak state; her clothes were soaked with blood; she was suffering from seven wounds; the chief one was just below the left collar-bone, an incised punctured wound, going downwards and inwards about an inch down or an inch and a quarter—the next severe wound was on the right side of her neck; there was another on her lip, another below her left ear, another in the angle of her right eye on the outer side, and one on the top of her head on the left side—she had lost a great quantity of blood—the wounds might be inflicted by this knife—she is perfectly well now.

Prisoner's Defence. I did not intend to murder her; I never had such a thought, but she has been aggravating me all the holidays, saying that she would go away if she liked, and called me all sorts of bad names. She came in at 11.20, I said "Where have you been?" she said "That is my business," and went on swearing and saying she would do this and that; and she said, "You will find I have got it up hot for you." I had used the knife to cut some tobacco. She took up a knife and said she would stab me. The boy had said previous to going to bed, "You are always talking about stabbing father." When I came in the little boy said "Mother has been out all the afternoon." I waited about and she came home about a quarter to 1 o'clock. I asked where she had been, she said she had been charing. She fell down intoxicated, and nearly gouged my eye out with a key. She has got hold of some bad companious, and has misconducted herself. When she was in service she wrote me a letter asking me to take her back again, and I did so. About three months previously she flung a butter-dish at me. I have been told she has been in the habit of going about with men and with my brother.

MARY ANN SOULSBY (Re-examined). He has charged me with misconduct with his brother and with every one, but there is not a bit of truth in it; he is a horrid wretch of a fellow.

GUILTY on the Second Count. Eight Years' Penal Servitude.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-360
VerdictsGuilty > unknown; Guilty > pleaded guilty
SentencesImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

360. EUGENE LORAINE (42) and JOHN OWEN (19) . Unlawfully forging and uttering a certain letter, with intent to defraud the Governor and Company of the Bank of England. Other Counts, for conspiracy to cheat and defraud.

MESSRS. POLAND and MEAD Prosecuted; MR. KEITH FRITH defended


FRANK EDWARD BLAIKLOCK . I am deputy principal of the Bank Stock office; it is my duty to keep a register of the stock—on January 21st there was 4,900l. of that stock in the name of the Rev. William Forbes Capel, and it had been so for some years; the address is Crawley, Surrey—this (produced) is an examined copy of the ledger—the books are kept by the Governor and Company of the Bank of England on behalf of the Government.

JOHN SHAW . I am a stockbroker, of Wardrobe Chambers, City—on 22nd January I received this letter: "2. Studland Street, Hammersmith. Mr. John Shaw. Dear Sir,—I have received private information to sell Canadian and American Railway Shares. Do you advise same. As I am short of ready money can you dispose of 4,900 India 4 per cent. for me. As it is to speculate I should like it done unknown to my brokers. It will require a power of A. to do this, so please send me application for one, as I am down with gout. W. Forbes Capel." It would be answered by one of my clerks—this is a copy of the answer, dated January 22nd, 1885—there is also a telegram marked "F"—in answer to the letter and telegram I received this letter (Marked "G," signed "W. Forbes Capel," instructing witness to sell and to keep the transaction from his brothers, who were stockbrokers)—that would be answered—I did not keep a copy, but this (produced) is a summary of what I said—there was not copy kept, because I knew there was something wrong, and I sent down a special messenger, sending the summary by hand, to the address given, "Studland Street, Hammersmith." (This requested some identification of the writer, Mr. Capel.) After that I received a further letter which enclosed this visiting card—I then communicated with the Bank of England, and by their advice sent this telegram (Afterwards found upon Owen)—I received this letter "N" after Owen was in custody—in consequence of receiving these letters from Mr. Forbes Capel I sold the stock and was put to the expense of paying the difference, 16l. or 17l.

Cross-examined by MR. FRITH. I never saw Loraine till I saw him at the Mansion House.

WILLIAM JOHN HALL . I am a hair-dresser, of 41, High Street, Barnet—in January last I was living at 2, Studland Street, Hammer-smith, and was assistant to Mr. Ward, who kept a hairdresser's shop and sold tobacco—somewhere about 21st January Owen came there and bought some tobacco—he said "Do you take in letters here?"—I said "No"—he said "Would you mind taking in some for me?"—I understood him to say he did not want them sent to his lodgings—I said I would not mind taking some in—he said the name was Capel—he then left, he did not tell me where his lodgings were—afterwards several letters came addressed to "W. Forbes Capel" and more than one telegram—I saw Owen on one or two occasions afterwards, and those letters were given to him—nobody else called for them—as far as I remember I saw him three times at the shop, once on a Saturday night—I received 3d. from Mrs. Ward for my trouble in taking in the letters.

Cross-examined by MR. FRITH. I never saw Loraine that I remember till I saw him at the police-court.

MARY ANN WARD . I am the wife of William Ward—in January last we were living at 2, Studland Street Hammersmith—I have seen Owen there five or six times, when he called for his letters—I handed him letters and telegrams addressed to W. Forbes Capel, Esq.—he gave me 3d. for the last witness—no one but Owen called for those letters—I was in the shop on 27th January when he was arrested—I would not say whether it was a letter or telegram that I gave him on that occasion, it was one or the other.

ROBERT SAGAR (City Detective). On Tuesday, 27th January, I was in plain clothes—I went to 2, Studland Street about 5 p.m, made inquiries there, and waited till about half-past 9, when Owen came in and said to Mrs. Ward "Any letters, please?"—she handed him this telegram, addressed to W. Forbes Capel, 2, Studland Street—he put it in his pocket, and handed her some money—she then turned to me and said "This is the gentleman you have been waiting for"—I said to Owen "I have been waiting for you some time; I have got with me a power of attorney, will you kindly sign it?"—this is it (produced)—I had it in my hand—he drew back towards the street door, and said "I am not Mr. Capel; I only come for his letters"—I said "Nonsense, I am told by the people in the house that you are the person that came here about a week ago and asked that letters addressed W. Forbes Capel might be taken in for you as you did not wish them to go to your lodging, and that you have called almost daily, and that no other person but you has been seen"—at that time we had got out of the shop—I then said to him "Where is Mr. Capel?"—he said "I don't know"—I said "Where does he live?"—he said "I don't know"—I said "What is you name, and where do you live?"—he said "I decline to answer; I don't see what it has got to do with you"—I said "Then you still refuse to give any account of yourself?"—he said "Yes"—at that time Abbott, another officer, in plain clothes, came up—I then said to Owen "We are two police officers; your answers are not at all satisfactory; you will have to go with us to the City; give me the telegram," which he did, unopened—it is from Mr. Shaw to Mr. Capel: "Power of attorney will be forwarded to-night"—I took Owen to the police-station in the Old Jewry, and Sergeant Child, who had charge of the case, saw him and spoke to him.

ROBERT CHILD (City Police Sergeant). On Tuesday night, 27th Jan., I was at the Old Jewry when Owen was brought in by Sagar, who said "This is the young man; he declines to give his name or address, or any account of himself"—I then said to Owen "What is your name?"—he said "John Owen"—I said "Where do you live?"—he said "I don't live anywhere"—I said "Where did you sleep last night?"—he said "With a girl"—I said "Where?"—he said "In Piccadilly, but I don't know the name of the street"—I said "Could you" or "Will you give me any address at which you have ever lived?"—he said "No"—I then said "Can you give me the name of any one by whom you have been employed?"—he said "I have driven for a traveller; I don't know his name or the firm for which he travelled"—I said "Let me see what you have about you"—he then throw down this letter and envelope (produced)—he threw them down separately. (This was from William

Capel to Mr. James Owen, care of Mrs. Elliot, 12, Lambeth Square, West-minster Bridge Road, and stated: "Dear Friend,—I shall be glad if you will go to the address in Studland Street to-night and to-morrow night; I enclose you three shillings in stamps, and will send you two or three shillings to-morrow. If you get any letters will you bring them to me at the first pub on the left in Rupert Street, as I shall be there from 10 till 11.") Before I read this letter I said "Where was you to meet this man Capel?"—he said "At a public-house in Rupert Street, Haymarket, between 10 and 11 o'clock"—then looking at the address on the envelope, I said "Is this your address?"—he said "No; it is a place at which I have had letters left"—I then got a cab, and accompanied by Sagar and Abbott, who were also in plain clothes, we took him to Coventry Street, and we there got out and walked into Rupert Street—this was just after 11—he pointed to the first public-house on the left, and said "That is where I have met him, the man, before"—we waited inside and out of the public-house for about 10 minutes or a quarter of an hour—I saw nothing there of any person who came up to Owen at all, or that Owen recognised—I took him back to the City—next morning I took him and charged him with forging and uttering a letter on or about 26th January, attempting to defraud the Governor and Company of the Bank of England of 4,900l.—he said "I know nothing about it"—he was then taken and charged before the Lord Mayor at the Mansion House—he was remainded on two occasions, and on the 11th of February was discharged—there had been then examined myself and Sagar and the people from the address and some other witnesses—several letters were produced before the Lord Mayor—on 3rd March the prisoner Owen was in custody on another charge—he was ill at the time, and was remanded for some time—on 31st March, about half-past 10 in the morning, from information I had obtained, I took Loraine in custody in the King's Road, Chelsea—Halse and Egan, two officers in plain clothes, were with me—I said "We are police officers; we shall arrest you; you will be charged with forging and uttering a letter on or about 26th January last, and attempting to defraud the Bank of England of 4,900l."—he said, "I know nothing about it"—I then took him to the Walham Green Police-station—on the way I said, "What is your name?"—he said, "You have no right to ask"—I said, "Well, I know you by so many names, I am justified in asking you your name now, so that I may know in what name to ask at your house"—he said, "What house?"—I said, "Where you are living at 11, Tetcot Road"—after some time he said, "Loraine"—I am certain I mentioned the address and not he—I took him into the Walham Green Police-station and said, "I am going to search your house"—he said, "You can do that; I can account for everything that is there," and he wrote his name "Loraine" on a piece of paper; this is it (produced)—I partly searched him there, and he handed me a 10l. Bank of England note—I then left him there, and went with Egan to search the house, 11, Tetcot Road—we found two females there—on a dresser in the kitchen we found this letter, (This was headed 11, Tetcot Road, King's Road, Chelsea, addressed to Mr. Savill, one of the parish officers, and was signed Charles Loraine.) I also found this from (produced) inside this envelope on a shelf of the dresser; the latter was not closed down. (The envelops was addressed to Mr. Savill, 8, Edith Terrace.) Besides these I found some other letters, and two sewing

machines, and various kinds of machinery and gas-fittings, which I brought away, and some things I can't mention—I took possession of all the things—I then went back to the station and said to Loraine, "I have searched the house," and mentioned some of the things I had found, and showed him this form and the letter to Mr. Savill in the envelope, and said, "I found these on the shelf, and I shall take possession of them," and I think I said, "They are in your writing"—he said nothing to that—I then took him to the Bridewell Police-station, and charged him there formally with forging and uttering the letter of 26th January, and attemptiug to defraud the Bank of England, and with conspiracy—he there gave the name of Eugene Loraine—in answer to the charge he said, "I know nothing about it"—he was then taken and formally charged before Alderman Sir Andrew Lusk, at the Mansion House, and Owen, who was then in custody, was jointly charged with him, and evidence was given against both, and on 4th May both were committed for trial—several letters were produced at the Mansion House—I inquired at 12, Lambeth Square, Westminster Bridge Road—I know now that Owen's sister lived there; I did not know it then—Crippen is her right name, but she said it was Morris.

Cross-examined by MR. FRITH. I did not find either on Loraine's person or at his house a single letter or document signed Capel, or anything relating to anything connected with the Capel forgery—I do not allege there is any similarity of paper or envelopes, or in writing, to the papers and envelopes in the Capel forgeries—after the letters had been handed to you and Mr. Poland at the Mansion House the authorities at the House of Detention were communicated with through my instructions—special watch was not kept on the men in consequence of that communication—I do not know that his cell had been searched—no order was given to search him before he was brought here to-day.

THOMAS HENRY SAUNDERS . I am a timber merchant in Portobello Road, Notting Hill—in December, 1883, I was foreman to Mr. Michael, who was the agent for letting the house, 11, Tetcot Road, Chelsea—that house was let to Loraine in the name of Charles Loraine—this is the agreement, dated 12th December, 1883; Loraine signed it in my presence; I attested his signature in Mr. Michael's presence.

JOSEPH JACOB MICHAEL . In December, 1883, I was agent for letting 11, Tetcot Road—on 8th December Loraine called and arranged about taking it, and he signed this agreement in my presence—I afterwards received from him these two letters relating to the rent, which was afterwards paid—I believe them to be his writing.

FRANK FLETCHER . I live at Kew, and was traveller to Mr. Michael—I knew Loraine when he was living at 11, Tetcot Road—I received this letter from him dated January 20th, stating that he would not be prepared to pay the rent till 4th February—I called on that day, and got the rent from him.

WILLIAM EATON BUSSEY . I am manager of J. T. Bussey and Co., Limited, at the Museum Works, Rye Lane, Peckham—in March, 1879, a man named Charles Carter took a workshop of the firm at 12s. 6d. a week—Loraine is that person; he stayed there up to about August or September that year—in August I had a conversation with him about a loan that he wanted; I can't recollect the amount—he offered his too✗s as security—I said I would consider the matter; I afterwards received

this letter about it—I have seen him write, and believe this to be his writing—I saw him afterwards, and suggested that he should put his proposals in writing, and I would forward them to my father—I afterwards received this letter of 11th August, 1879, which I believe to be his writing—I sent it to my lather, and received it back with this memorandum written across it—before communicating that to the prisoner I received this other letter from him; I saw him with regard to it—he quitted the premises within a month or two after that—this letter, signed J. Whittaker, I believe to be also in the prisoner's writing—he was apparently a bicycle and tool maker and engineer—this letter, dated 6th November, 1879, I believe to be his writing; I believe I received it by a messenger—this letter of 20th January, 1883, signed Charles E. Bodassier, I believe to be Loraine's writing, also these three, two signed George Merritt, and this letter to the Lord Mayor.

WILLIAM CLEMOW . I am a licensed victualler in Salisbury Street, Strand—at the latter part of 1882 I was living at 7, Station Road, Clapham Junction—my sister, Mrs. Marshall, occupied No. 6, a private house, which she was desirous of letting, and there was a notice up, "To let," and in December, on behalf of the landlady, I let it to Loraine in the name of Charles Bodassier—I saw him there on several occasions—he paid the rent in advance—Owen was living there with him—I think they came there together—I left in March or April; they were living there up to that time.

WILLIAM READER (Detective Sergeant). On 26th June, 1883, Owen was at the Southwark Police-court; he was remanded to 3rd July—on that day Loraine appeared and was sworn—he gave the name of Charles Bodassier, and said Owen was his stepson—he gave evidence, and in the upshot Owen was discharged—after that I saw them together on several occasions, up to within six months ago, about the Strand, in Villiers Street, particularly of a night.

Cross-examined by MR. FRITH. I cannot give any particular month in which I saw them together; I should not think I have seen them together this year.

EMMA MAGENNIS . I live at 1, Addlington Crescent, Lambeth—I knew Loraine as Charles Carter when he took apartments at my house at the end of February or beginning of March, 1883; he gave the name of Charles Carter then, but afterwards he gave the name of Loraine—Owen came to live with him about a week afterwards—I used to call him Jack; Loraine told me his name was Jack Carter—Loraine left at the end of November, 1883—Owen stopped on as a lodger, and his sister came to lodge with him for about seven weeks—Owen left about the commencement of May, 1884—after Loraine left he sent me 3l.; I do not know that it was for Owen's lodging—there was a sum owing, one week for each room; that would not come to 3l.

Cross-examined by MR. FRITH. The money was brought by some one who called to see Mr. Carter—I have seen Owen about the neighbourhood since he left, and I have seen Loraine once since he left; I never saw them together since.

By the COURT. The first part of the time they were with me they only had one room, when the sister was there they had two—the prisoners occupied the same room and slept together until Loraine left—I did not know Loraine's occupation; I thought they were playing on the stage—

he told me he was a betting man; I do not remember his telling me anything else—I never knew what Owen was—they used to go out together, sometimes as early as 6 o'clock, sometimes about 10 o'clock—I did not hear them say that they were any trade.

THOMAS DOWNHAM . I am now a prisoner in Holloway Gaol—I first knew Loraine at the latter end of 1882 or the beginning of 1883, and Owen about three months afterwards—I have seen them together occasionally up to September, 1884—in August, 1884, I met Loraiue in the Haymarket, and I saw Owen with him next day or the day after—we made an appointment to meet at some place, I do not remember where—I afterwards went to 11, Titcot Road, Chelsea, with Owen, and saw Loraine, and we adjourned to a neighbouring public-house, and Loraine wrote something to be inserted in a paper, and told me to take it to the Exchange and Mart office, Strand—I did so; they said something, and gave it me back—I took it back to Loraine next morning—I do not know whether he tore it up—I think he gave me something else; I took that to the Exchange and Mart, and they accepted it—Loraine told me to call for letters at two places; one was at 80, Lupus Street, Pimlico, a news-agent's—that was at the latter end of August or the beginning of September—Owen went with me, and we received letters about three or four times a week for two or three weeks—I saw Loraine write this letter to a gentleman at the Mint.

Cross-examined by MR. FRITH. I recognise the letter by the way it reads—I have seen him write several letters—Detective Child came to some me at the goal about coming here—I still have a considerable portion of my sentence to suffer.

By the COURT. I am in prison for obtaining goods by means of false cheques—I first met Loraine in Farringdon Street—he was a stranger; some one introduced me to him, a man named Charles Broad, who I had seen before—I believe he was a barman—I first met him at the Temperance Hotel, Blackfriars Road, where he used to attend a concert now and then—I did not see much of Loraine after I was introduced to him, only now and then, not very often✗—I did something for him; I took some portion of machinery from a house at Clapham Junction; I fancy it was a lathe, I am not certain.

REV. WILLIAM FORBES CAPEL . I am a clerk in holy orders, now at the Clergy Club, in Bond Street—I formerly lodged at Mr. Parkaurst's clerical hotel in Euston Square, a private boarding-house, where I used to stop when in England—on 11th June, 1883, I left two boxes there, one of which contained a despatch box—about the end of July last year, on visiting the hotel again, I had occasion to open one of the boxes, and at once missed the despatch box—it had contained certificates and receipts for East India Stock to the amount of 4,900l., a good many returned cheques, and one of my cards—none of the letters that have been produced bearing my name are my writing or written by my authority—I do not know either of the prisoners.

Cross-examined by MR. FRITH. The letter to Mr. Shaw does not correctly refer to my family affairs; it mentions that my brothers are stockbrokers; I have only one brother, and he is not a stockbroker—to an outsider the signature may appear to be a very good imitation of mine, but not to myself; I can speak of the body of the letters, the signature is a manifest copy of mine.

GEORGE SMITH INGLIS . I am a professional expert in handwriting, of 8, Red Lion Square, Holborn—I have on several occasions been examined in Courts of Justice to give my opinion upon handwriting—I have examined all the letters purporting to be signed "W. Forbes Capel," and in my opinion they are all in the same handwriting, also this letter sent to his lordship yesterday; these other letters, admitted or proved to be in Loraine's writing, are in my opinion in the same handwriting as those signed "W. Forbes Capel"—I have no doubt whatever about it; I can, if necessary, point out numerous similarities and pecu✗liarities, for instance in the spelling of the word "to-morrow."

Cross-examined by MR. FRITH. I am of opinion that the letters to Horsefield and Clinkskill are in Loraine's handwriting; that the same person who wrote those, wrote the Capel letters, I have no doubt about it; they may be fairly described as an ordinary average clerk's hand.

By the COURT. I have prepared an analysis of the similarities, which I produce.

RICHARD SIMS . I live in Montagu Street, Russell Square; I am a first-class assistant in the manuscript department of the British Museum; it is my business to carefully examine MSS. and habits of hand writing, so as to know the genuine from those that are not; I have been in that department 44 years—on one occasion, in a celebrated will case, I gave evidence in a Court of Justice—I have been in Court and heard Mr. Inglis's examination—I have examined the whole of the letters and documents referred to, and in my opinion they are all in the same handwriting—I have no doubt of it whatever.

MR. KEITH✗FRITH called for the production of the depositions and exhibits in the case against Chilley and Shay (see New Court, Saturday), and recalled Mr. Inglis, who repeated that in his opinion the letters and papers referred to an that case were in the same handwriting as the Capel letters.

Owen, in his statement before the Magistrate, alleged that he was simply employed to take the letters to a gentleman who he met in Rupert Street; that he had never seen him since; that it was not Loraine, who did not know of his fetching the letters.


Loraine PLEADED GUILTY to two other indictments, one for uttering a forged order for the payment of money with intent to defraud; the other for obtaining by false pretences certain type-writing machines, also to two previous convictions, one in November, 1879, for obtaining an order for the payment of money by false pretences, and the other in October, 1881, at Exeter, in the name of Frank Owen, for the unlawful possession of counterfeit coin. Numerous other cases of fraud against him were stated by officer.

LORAINE— Fourteen Years' Penal Servitude. OWEN— Fifteen Months' Hard Labour.

NEW COURT.—Wednesday, May 21st, 1885.

Before Mr. Recorder

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-361
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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361. JAMES COOPER (21) and WILLIAM TARNEY (20) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of Thomas Hill, with intent to steal the goods and money therein.

MR. BAYLISS Prosecuted.

JOHN COX (Policeman K 302). At a quarter to 1 o'clock on the morning of 7th May I was in Ampthill Road and came to the corner of the Medway Road—I heard some scratching, could not make out what it was, and when I turned round, saw the two prisoners come out of the window of 2, Medway Road and go down Stringfield Road and down a little turning—I went to the house and found the window open and the inmates up in the passage—while talking to them the prisoners passed the bottom of the street about 40 yards from me—I said "Don't go to bed, here they are," and went directly after the prisoners—I saw Tarney throw away this knife—I blew my whistle, they started running—I called out "You had better stop," at which they both stopped directly—I got hold of Tarney and said "Come along with me," the other was about a yard ahead of me—he said "What do you want with me?"—I said "I will tell you"—I took them back to the house (the inhabitants were up)—I put them in the front parlour and said "You will have to go to the station, you have been trying to break into this house"—Tarney said "Oh, what about that?"—Cooper said nothing, but sat and kept himself very quiet—I took them to the station with the assistance of another constable—I examined the window and found they had tried to cut a pane of glass out—it was not cut out, but cut down about the length of a knife on one side; the putty had been taken away, and underneath the catch were marks of a knife where the catch had been forced back—the window was open about 18 inches—the marks on the window corresponded with the knife.

Cross-examined by Cooper. I did not follow you because I did not know what you had done.

Re-examined. I am certain the two men I saw at the window are the prisoners.

ANNIE HILL . I am Thomas Hill's wife and live at 2, Medway Road—the night before the morning of 7th May I looked round the house before going to bed—I noticed that the window was perfectly safe, closed, and the catch fastened—on the morning of the 7th I heard the noise of a catch of a window going back about 1 o'clock ✗.—I got up and saw the last witness outside—the prisoners were afterwards brought to the house—when I came down I found the window open and the catch moved back.

The Prisoners' Statements before the Magistrate. Cooper says: "As we were coming along the Ampthill Road by the turning, Tarney said 'The policeman means us.' We stopped. The policeman blew his whistle and caught hold of Tarney and said 'I want you.' I followed him, I did not run an inch."

GUILTY of the attempt. Six Months' Hard Labour each.

The Grand Jury had returned a presentment commending Cox's conduct.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-362
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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362. EDWARD SEAR (25) was indicted , together with others unknown, for robbery with violence on John Gwinnell, and stealing his watch.

MR. BROXHOLME Prosecuted.

JOHN GWINNELL . I live at 64, Plummer's Road, Whitechapel—about 12 o'clock, midnight, on 4th May, I was in High Street, Whitechapel, walking towards home—the prisoner with three more came up to me—

the prisoner said "I know you"—I said "I don't know you"—he said "Yes, you are an old friend of mine"—he had hold of me by the arms and would not loose me; I struggled to get away—the other men were in front of me—when we got to Mary Street the prisoner tried to pull me down, and said "I live down here"—I struggled with him to get away, when the other three rushed up; and then I was knocked down by the four of them, they all came together in a cluster—my watch was taken from me, and the prisoner held me while they ran away—I could not see who knocked me down, my attention was on the prisoner, who held me—I got up—the prisoner was making his way off; he said "Go to the others for your watch, I have not got it," and he started running—I ran after him and got up to him twice, and each time he knocked me down—a constable came up while the man was running and caught him—I then gave him in custody.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. It had been raining, but not at the time—Mary Street is about a minute's walk from Baker's Row—I was struggling all the way—the three other men were conversing with you all the way along, about six yards in front—you pulled me up the dark turning—you caught hold of my arms, and they came up, and I went down in the struggle, and then you held me down till the others got away—I had only had a glass of beer that night—I was not drunk—when you had shoved me you ran off across the road, and then you saw the policeman coming and stopped—I told the policeman you knocked me down twice and ran away.

ALBERT COLLINS (Policeman H 37). I was on duty on this night—about 12 o'clock I saw the prisoner running in the Whitechapel Road, with the prosecutor after him—I ran after and caught the prisoner—the prosecutor said he would charge him with being concerned with other men in stealing his watch—his back was all muddy—the prisoner said "You are a b—liar"—I took him to the station.

Cross-examined. It was raining—you were running—I caught you as you came round a cab.

The prisoner in his defence stated that he was walking along when the prosecutor came up, and first said that some men had stolen his watch, and afterwards that he (the prisoner) had it.

GUILTY . He then PLEADED GUILTY ** to a conviction of felony at Chelm✗ford in Februray, 1878.— Twelve Month's Hard Labour.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-363
VerdictsNot Guilty > unknown; Not Guilty > no evidence

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363. JOHN GILL DICKESON , Embezzling 3l. 6s., 4l. 7s. 6d., and 1l. 4s., received by him on account of Robert Porter and others, his masters.

MR. FULTON Prosecuted; MR. WARBURTON Defended.

HENRY PURSER . I live at 31, Rickston Road, Stoke Newington, and am a watchmaker and jeweller, and a customer of Mullet, Porter, and Dowd, of 102, Wood Street—on 5th December I was indebted to then 3l. 6s.—on that date I paid the prisoner, whom I knew as traveller for the 3l. 6s. in cash for his masters—he gave me a receipt—on 15th December I paid him in cash a further sum of 4l. 7s. 6d., for which he gave me a receipt—on 31st December I paid him a further sum of 1l. 4s., for which he gave me a receipt.

CHARLES DOVETON . I am cashier to Mullet, Porter, and Dowd, 102,

Wood Street, and have been with them for some time—the prisoner was a traveller in their employment—I know his writing—this is a form of agreement which he entered into with them signed by him—there are more travellers than one. (This form of agreement stated that the terms were one pound a week and a commission of 7 1/2 per cent. on goods supplied; that he was to work solely for them; and it was to he terminable by a month's notice on either side. ) Travellers were supposed to collect accounts, and to pay them in the same or following day, returning a sheet of moneys received, which I signed for—no travellers in our employment had any right to retain possession of our moneys for two months together without giving any account of their receipt—the prisoner made no return on the 6th, 7th, or 8th of December—no moneys were paid in on those days—there is no entry in the books of any sum received on the 6th by the prisoner, nor on the 15th, nor of 1l. 4s. on the 31st—I have had other sums paid in after that time, but I had no report at all of receipts from the 15th to the 31st—it was his duty to write up every day a list of the persons from whom he received money—the particular sums mentioned are left out from the reports sent up between the 5th and 31st—those sums were not included in reports sent in after the 31st—inquiries were made, and he received notice to quit on the 14th of February—he was written to on ✗th March, and the first answer we received was a letter from Mr. S. B. Abrahams, a solicitor, on the 12th March. (This stated that he had been consulted by the prisoner, and requested to furnish a balance sheet, showing a balance in favour of the prisoner, and asked that a cheque might be sent. The statement and account enclosed with it said that 11 weeks' London expenses were due to the prisoner. ) London expenses were all settled with the prisoner a long time before—we had never agreed to suppy him with a brougham—the matter was placed in the hands of our solicitor—we declined to recognise his account.

Cross-examined. I have the prisoner's receipt for London expenses at 7s. per week up to November, 1884—he had no expenses after that—he left in March—he was under a separate agreement after November, under which he had no expenses—in Mr. Abraham's account there is H. Purser 4l. 7s. 6d. and 1l. 4s. and 3l. 6s., and various other things are put down too, amounting altogether to 47l. 7s. 11d.—the counter-claim comes altogether 44l. 14s. 2d., and leaves a balance due to us of 2l. 13s. 9d.—so far as I have anything to do with it our travellers always account the same day or the next for money they have collected—we have seven or eight travellers now—we owe nothing for the brougham—I cannot tell whether Mr. Porter or any of the firm instructed him to hire it—it would come within my knowledge—I know Mr. Morris Ansell—Mr. Cochin was connected with our firm at that time—I should not like to swear whether orders were given through Mr. Cochin for the prisoner to hire this brougham—Mr. Cochin was not so instructed—these broughams are continually used by our firm—some of our other travellers use a brougham; certainly not all—after a time our travellers had no salary, only commission—I don't know whether the prisoner was doing so well that he was only given 7 percent.—I did not know that when the prisoner was arrested he was travelling for another very respectable firm—I know the prisoner used a brougham—I did not know that the prisoner said he had money of the prosecutor's in hand, and that he would make out an account showing how the matter stood—I don't know that in February or March he gave notice to Mr. Wood, the manager, that he was going into business for himself.

ROBERT PORTER . I am a member of the firm of Mullett, Porter, and Dowd—the last witness is our cashier—the prisoner was our traveller—directly a traveller received money it was his duty to render an account, either that day or the next—the cashier had that matter to attend to himself—I know nothing of the prisoner using a brougham—I never gave him authority to use one—I refused the 18l. debt—we gave extra salary and commission and would not have any extra expenses—he induced me to enter into a fresh agreement with him on 14th February—I did not know he owed us a penny—I refused any extras, to avoid any complication of accounts—7 1 per cent, was to be the limit, including wages and expenses—the claim set up by Mr. Abrahams for expenses is without foundation, and I do not recoguise it.

Cross-examined. I received the letter from Mr. Abrahams on 12th March, and the prisoner was arrested at Brighton on 17th April—some of our travellers use broughams, they were not all on the same terms exactly—I don't know that the prisoner did use a brougham, I should not think he did—neither of my partners would have said anything to the prisoner about it without my knowing it—the prisoner was the only one giving notice to leave, and his original agreement was cancelled and he was taken on other terms—I believe the London travellers account instantly; I cannot speak for the country ones—the prisoner travelled in London and within 12 miles, until 25th February—I could not pledge myself that Mr. Cochin, our manager, did not ask the prisoner to hire the brougham, I do not think he did—he said the prisoner had a brother who lent him a horse and trap; he may be calling that a brougham—I don't think the prisoner had authority, or could think that he had authority, for the brougham, because we gave so high a commission and salary—I never heard anything about Mr. Ball, a partner, having a conversation with the prisoner and saying that the prisoner had some of our money in hand—I never heard of a custom in the trade to deduct expenses from the commission—Mr. Ansell is not sueing us for 200l.; I have heard nothing about it; I think he would know better—the prisoner did not give us notice to go, after a dispute—I don't know that he went straight to another firm and travelled for them—the prisoner gave me no written or verbal statement of how he stood that I know—I asked the prisoner one evening to come to my private residence very likely—I don't know if I said between December and March that he was one of my best travellers—I did not know what he had been doing, and if I made such a remark it was in ignorance—I don't think I could have said it—I don't remember asking him to send me a written account—I didn't know he owed me any money—I think he only came to my private house once—I did not know he was going to set up in business for himself—we sent a detective after him to Brighton, and they brought him up—I don't know if he surrendered himself at Brighton.

Re-examined. I believe a copy of the letter from Mr. S. B. Abrahams was sent to my private house—there was no foundation whatever for his claim for 44l. 14s. 2d.

SAMUEL LITHEL (City Detective Sergeant). I held a warrant dated 13th April for the apprehension of the prisoner—I received information and went to Brighton and found the prisoner in the custody of the Brighton police on the 17th—I took him into my custody and conveyed him to London—when I took him over I read the warrant to him; he said "I want you

to understand that I surrendered myself here"—I had been at Brighton for some days making inquiries—I went to the police-station late the night before.

Cross-examined. I had not seen the prisoner—he went to the police-station with three or four friends, about a dispute between them about something which had occurred in the town, and when they applied to the inspector to know if anything was alleged against him he was detained and I was wired to—I don't know if he said "I heard there was a warrant and came to answer it."

ROBERT PORTER (Re-examined by the COURT ). I cannot say whether these customers in the counter-claim are bona fide or not.

CHARLES DOVETON (Re-examined by MR. FULTON ). I don't know about these small items which he claims as commissions—I only recognise one of the names—I don't know all the customers; only some—I have never compared these claims with our books.

Cross-examined. I dare say there are 100 customers whose names I don't know.

The JURY here stated that they found the prisoner


There was another indictment against the prisoner upon the same facts for embezzling other sums.

MR. FULTON, on behalf of the Prosecution, offered no evidence.


18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-364
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

364. JOHN GILBERT (55) , Forging and uttering a request for the delivery of a cabinet of mathematical instruments, with intent to defraud.

MR. BAYLISS Prosecuted.

HERBERT FOWLER . I am manager to Messrs. W. F. Stanley, 6, Victoria Street—on Monday, April 27th, at boy named Leggatt brought this letter. (A request for the delivery of a box of mathematical instruments of about the value of 28l.) sealed in an envelope, purporting to come from Messrs. Field, Capes, and Co.—in consequence of it I sent an invoice by the boy for 28l. for a case of mathematical instruments—the nearest price of a case of instruments we had in our published list was 30l. and assuming I could get that I made out an invoice for 28l.—I could not get that case—the boy returned about 3.45, about an hour and three-quarters afterwards, with a memorandum from Field and Capes, enclosing a cheque. (The cheque was dated 28th April, 1885, on the City Bank, Limited, for 28l., payable to Messrs. Stanley, drawn by Field and Capes.) In consequence of that I sent by Leggatt a case of instruments of the value of 20l. and 8l. the balance—I gave our boy Parish instructions to follow the other boy—he returned some time afterwards, and in consequence of what he told me I telegraphed to Messrs. Field, Capes, and Co.—this is the telegram I received from them: "We know nothing whatever about the case of instruments you refer to or cheque being sent, possibly a fraud"—it was in consequence of my believing it was a bona fide cheque, and by looking at a directory, that I let the goods go.

JAMES LEGGATT . I am 14 years old, and live at 51, Masham Street, Westminster—on Monday, April 27th, about 1.30, I was in Smith Street—the prisoner asked me if I would take a letter into Stanley's for him; it was only just across the road—I said I would take the letter, and I did so, and the last witness gave me another letter to fetch back—I gave that to the prisoner, and he gave me threepence, and told me to meet him at

3 o'clock—I was there at 3 o'clock; he did not come till 3.25—he gave me a penny, and said the clerk had out come with the cheque then, so I came back at 3.45, and met the prisoner there again, and he gave me another letter, and asked me to meet him at King Street—I went into Stanley's, and they gave me a case of instruments and some money in a letter, which the gentleman said was 8l.—I took those to King Street, against Westminster Bridge—I saw the prisoner—he told me to keep carrying them up to St. Martin's Lane, Hemming's Row—the prisoner followed behind me—when I got to St. Martin's Lane I gave him the box and money, and he gave me 1l., and asked me to meet him at 11 o'clock next, morning at the same place—he did not say what for—I went there next morning; the prisoner did not come—I next saw him on the 1st of May in St. Martin's Lane, and I next saw him with a lot more men at Rochester Bow on May 4th—he is the man I gave the case and money to.

THOMAS PARISH . I work for Mr. Fowler, manager to Messrs. Stanley—on 27th April, soon after 3 o'clock, Mr. Forbes spoke to me, and I followed the last witness, who had a box with him—he went to King Street, and met the prisoner just past Downing Street—the prisoner had a little conversation with the boy, and then crossed the road and spoke to another young man while the boy went towards Charing Cross with the case of instruments—after the prisoner had left the young man he went on the same side as the boy, and followed behind him—1 then turned back and told Mr. Fowler I was suspicious—I went afterwards to Rochester Police-station and picked the prisoner out from several other men at the station as being the man I saw speak to the boy.

WILLIAM TYRRELL (Police Sergeant). On 4th May I arrested the prisoner in Sardinia Street, Lincoln's Inn Fields, and told him the charge was for forging and uttering a cheque for the delivery of a case of mathematical instruments, and at the same time obtaining 8l., the balance of the cheque—he said, "I know nothing about it"—I searched him and his lodgings, and found nothing relating to the charge—I took him to Rochester Row Station, placed him among eight others, and Leggatt and Parish identified him.

ALBERT JAMES KELLY . I am a clerk at the City Bank, Threadneedle Street—we have no account in the name of Field and Capes—this ie one of our cheques signed Field and Capes; the form was issued to a customer of ours named J.A. Turner; it has not been presented at our bank yet.

CHARLES JOSEPH CAPES . I am a member of the firm of Field and Capes, 370, High Street, Wapping—I do not know the prisoner—we gave no authority for these letters—I sent for no case of instruments, and never authorised the prisoner or any one else to—I know nothing about the transaction—I sent this telegram—the signature to the cheque is not mine nor my partner's; no one else in our firm has any authority to sign our names—we are wharfingers.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I am charged with forgery. There is no proof I committed forgery. I could not write out a cheque or anything of that sort. The letter was placed in my hands for delivery. The letter was closed. I call no witnesses. I am ignorant of the whole matter. I should not know how to write out a cheque."

The prisoner in his defence state that what he had done had been by the instruction of another man.

GUILTY of uttering. He then PLEADED GUILTY to a conviction of felony in September, 1880.— Eighteen Month's Hard Labour.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-365
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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365. ANN JONES (40) , Stealing a purse and an order for the payment of 15s. 8d. the goods of Matilda Cousins, from her person.


CHARLES BRYAN (City Detective). About noon on Saturday, 18th inst., the day of the Lord Mayor's funeral, there was a great crowd in St. Paul's Churchyard—I was there with Outram and Rouse, on Ludgate Hill—we followed the prisoner to St. Paul's Churchyard, and there saw her place herself by the side of a lady who had a friend with her—they walked down Ludgate Hill—the prisoner returned—she put her left hand towards the lady's dress-pocket before they moved on—we followed, her to the corner of Ave Maria Lane, and into a public-house, and then she went to the south side of St. Paul's Churchyard, near Paul's Chain—I watched her in the public-house, having followed her in—she called for half of mild-and-bitter, and took a purse from her dress-pocket from under her shawl, I think, and counted the money in it, paid for the drink, and put it back where she had taken it from, then she went by Porson's, in St. Paul's Churchyard, on the south side—Mrs. Cousins and her daughter were standing by Porson's—the prisoner went up to Mrs. Cousins and put her hand into her dress-pocket; she was there about two minutes; she then walked away, hurriedly looking behind her, towards Cheapside—I followed her to Foster Lane—she was about to go into a public-house—I said, "We are detective officers; we shall charge you with attempting to steal from various ladies i✗ the crowd in St. Paul's Churchyard and Ludgate Hill"—she said, "Do you say you are detectives?"—I said, "Yes, we are; you will have to go to the station with us"–she said, "I don't know what you mean"—after we had taken her half a dozen yards towards Bridewell Station she dropped this purse—the female searcher handed me this other purse which she found at the station when she searched the prisoner; it contained 2s. 3d. and three gold rings.

Cross-examined. I saw policemen going in and out of the public-house, and two were standing at the bar having bread and cheese it might be.

WALTER OUTRAM (City Detective). I was in Court when Mr. Bryan gave his evidence; it is quite correct—this is the purse that the prisoner dropped—I picked it up and said, "You have dropped this"—she said, "Me?"—I said, "You"—she said, "I know nothing about it"—I went back in the crowd and found Mrs. Cousins, and she identified the purse—I saw it come from under the prisoner's shawl when she dropped it.

JOHN ROUSE (City Detective). I was with Bryan and Outram in St. Paul's Churchyard on this Saturday at noon—I followed the prisoner and saw her place herself behind several ladies—we followed her into Foster Lane, and saw her place her band near several ladies—I saw her behind Mrs. Cousins and leave Mrs. Cousins hurriedly—she was stopped by Outram and Bryan—I saw her drop the purse.

MATILDA COUSINS . I am a widow, living at 2, Lavender Road, Clapham Junction—on Saturday 1 was with the crowd in St. Paul's Churchyard to look at the funeral—I lost this purse; the police showed it me, I identified

it—it did not contain much money, but there was a very good ring in it; that ring has gone; it has not since been found—there was a post-office order for 15s. 8d. in it and some coppers.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I did not see you in the crowd, my attention was the other way.

Re-examined. The purse was in my pocket when I was in the crowd.

The prisoner in her statement before the Magistrate stated that one purse she had picked up, and that the other one with the rings in it was her own. In her defence she gave a number of addresses where she said she had lived as servant.

GUILTY . She then PLEADED GUILTY to a conviction of felony in August, 1872, at Gloucester. It was stated that there were previous convictions prior to that.— Eighteen Months' Hard Labour.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-366
VerdictMiscellaneous > no agreement
SentenceMiscellaneous > sureties

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366. ELIZA BREWSTER, AGNES BREWSTER , and JOSEPH STAPLES , Unlawfully obtaining by false pretences from Edward Frederick Skinner 6l. and 9l., with intent to defraud. Another Count for conspiracy.

MR. GRAIN Prosecuted; MR. GILL Defended.

The Jury in this case, being unable to agree, were discharged without giving a verdict, and the prisoners were discharged upon their own recognisances, and their trial was postponed to the next Session.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-367
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > no evidence
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

Related Material

367. THERESE DESCOURS the elder and THERESE DESCOURS the younger , Stealing a jack the goods of the Civil Service Supply Association. The elder prisoner, who received a good character, PLEADED GUILTY.— Judgment respited.

MR. MONTAGU WILLIAMS , for the Prosecution, offered no evidence against the younger prisoner.


18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-368
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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368. WALTER RENOUF* PLEADED GUILTY to breaking and entering The dwelling-house of Alfred Erskine Close, with intent to steal therein, also to breaking and entering the dwelling-house of George Watson, and stealing three shirts and other articles.— Eighteen Months' Hard Labour. And

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-369
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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369. ROBERT LEWIS (36) to not disclosing and delivering up to his Trustee in bankruptcy certain property and books; and also to disposing of his property otherwise than in the ordinary way of his trade.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Judgment respited.

THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, May 20th, 1885.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-370
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

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370. GIPSEY VINE . Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin, well knowing the same to be counterfeit.

MESSRS. LLOYD and WILKINSON Prosecuted; MR. FULTON Defended.

The Jury were unable to agree, and upon the prisoner being re-arraigned, the Prosecution offered no evidence, and a verdict of NOT GUILTY was taken.

NEW COURT.—Thursday, May 21st, 1885.

Before Mr. Recorder.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-371
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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371. CHARLES HOWARD (58) , Unlawfully obtaining a postal order for 2l. 10s. by false pretences, with intent to defraud. Other Count for a conspiracy with David Day Grigsby. (See New Court, Friday).


and GEOGHEGAN Defended.

THOMAS MARTIN CLARK . I live at High Street, Ely—about March, 1884,1 saw an advertisement in the Daily News similar to this. (This stated that a Mr. James Hall Cooper Clark, who died in South America in March last, had left 3,000l. each to the first 35 persons who could prove by parish certificates that their ancestors for seven generations had held that name, and inviting applications). I wrote this answer (produced), and then received this letter of June 11th from D.D. Grigsby and Co. (This stated that as the bequests were intended for the benefit of persons of limited means, it would be necessary to send particulars of his circumstances). I sent this answer dated 12th June, 1884. (This stated that he kept a small drapery business, and had nothing but what he worked for, and that the bequest would be a great help to him). I received an answer to that, and then wrote "Your letter to hand; I will make inquiries and see if I can trace back my seven generations"—I then received this lithograph letter. (Dated August 27th, 1884, and headed Clark or Clarke 105,000l.; it repeated the terms of the advertisement, and offered to send a copy of the bequest portion of the will, for 50s. or offering to make the search for him). (Another letter stated: "If you are prompt in providing proofs, you are nearly certain of obtaining the 3,000l. bequest, &c. Our clients will require a letter from you authorising us to deduot 10 per cent, from the 3,000l. for commission, such being sanctioned by the trustees in view of legacy duty, &c., searching the register, and obtaining the necessary proof and forms. Our total costs out of pocket will probably range from 20l. to 60l. according to distance and time, &c. Fees can stand over till the bequest is obtained. Only one person having proved up to the present time, and as you state you think the necessary certificates for the seven generations may be easily found, we think you have a very good chance of success.") Then there is a letter from me of September 10th. (This enclosed postal order for 50s., and requested a copy of the extract from the will). I then received this extract, and afterwards sent a copy of my pedigree for seven generations; I then received this letter. (Dated 18th September, from D. D. Grigsby and Co., solicitors, stating that their costs out of pocket would be probably from 20l. to 60l., and offering to take up the case on receipt of 12l. towards expenses, and that the legal charges could stand over to be paid from the bequest). I then received this letter from Grigsby and Co., 30, Theobald's Road, late 55 and 56, Chancery Lane. (Stating that as solicitors for the trustees they were prohibited from taking up any case on speculation, and that if they took up the witness's case they should make no charge if they failed). I then wrote and enclosed certificates showing my pedigree for seven generations, and then received' this letter. (This was a copy of the former one of September 18th). I then wrote this letter of October 18th, forwarding the proper certificates, and received on 21st October another letter asking me for 20l.—I then sent this letter (Enclosing cheque for 5l., stating that he was too pressed to send more just now, but

requesting them to write for the certificates). Hearing nothing from them for two months, I wrote this letter: "December 17th. I shall be glad to hear from you regarding Clark's bequest. I hope you have got certificates, and that you are doing the best you can for me." I received this reply: "December 18th. In reply to yours, we are waiting for all the certificates you can possibly obtain; then when you have done your best, we will, if, you so wish, take up the search and endeavour to complete it; but you must press on without loss of time." On 20th September I wrote again. (This letter enclosed extracts from the Edinburgh General Registry Office). I then received this letter. (Apologising for the delay in consequence of their immense correspondence). On 6th January I wrote this letter. (This enclosed names for five generations back, and stated that one was missing). I then received this acknowledgment, and then sent this letter. (Enclosing birth and marriage certificates). I then received this letter of 30th January. (Requesting certificates of death or burial, and offering to put the matter into the hands of a gentleman who had come to terms with several friends to make their searches). I was not introduced to the gentleman—on 2nd February I wrote saying: "As you have had all the trouble of my case, and feeling you have given it your best attention so far, I would rather give you extra fees when the case is complete if you have the time to devote to it, and help you all I can; at the same time, if you would rather I was put in communication with the gentleman you mention, and will kindly send address, I will do so at once." On 4th February I had a letter saying that it entirely rested with me whether the gentleman took up the matter—that was the last letter; they obtained no certificates for me—the 5l. was for them to get the certificates– believed the statements written to me before I got the will, and believed the extract from the will—I have not had the 3,000l. yet.

Cross examined by MR. OVENDEN. I expected to get the 3,000l. through Mr. Grigsby—when I employ a solicitor I expect to have to pay him for his trouble—Mr. Grigsby wrote me a number of letters, and I am aware that solicitors charge for every letter—when I sent the 2l. 10s. he had written me several letters for that 2l. 10s.; I also received the extract from the will and a number of letters subsequently—when my pedigree came back from Grigsby's there were several marks on it, putting it in chronological foru✗—I never had a certiricate back with "Proves nothing" written on it—the last letter was dated February 4th, and within a week I heard Grigsby was in custody—I never saw Howard.

Re-examined. In getting these certificates I was put to considerable expense—supposing there had been no will and no 3,000l. I would not have paid 7l. for the pleasure of communicating with Grigsby.

WILLIAM CLARK . I am a railway police sergeant and live at 132, Warrington Road, N. Kensington—previous to September last I saw an advertisement referring to the Clark bequest and wrote to A. B. C. and Co., Chancery Lane; after which I received nine letters from Grigsby and Co., and sent them 2l. 10s, which was acknowledged in their letter of October 13th—on 23rd September, 1884, I write them this letter. (Giving his pedigree and offering to let them take his case in hand and deduct 500l. from the 3,000l. if they obtained it for him). On 26th September I received this circular (The same as the former one). and on 30th September I wrote (Offering Grigsby and Co. 1,000l. if some one would take his case in hand)—I then received this letter (Stating that only three persons had

effect their proof yet)—I then enclosed a post-office order for 50s.—then came a letter from them acknowledging it and saying, that certificates of the female line were not necessary—I then sent up my pedigree and received this letter. (Advising him to get his friends to raise the money, as they could not take up his case without a remittance). I then received this letter. (This enclosed a synopsis for the witness to fill up with the names of seven generations and dates of births, marriages, and deaths). I then received another letter advising me not to give up the matter—I never got the 3,000l. or any portion of it—when I sent the 50s. I believed the extract from the will was a genuine thing and that I should benefit under it if, I could prove my pedigree, but after being asked for more money my suspicions were aroused, and I sent no more.

Cross-examined by MR. OVENDEN. The early correspondence did not excite my suspicion, it excited my confidence—I only paid 2l. 10s, for nine letters and the copy from the extract of the will; I expected more than that, I expected the whole 3,000l.—I completed the seven generations all but one.

Re-examined. The nine letters had nine postage stamps on them and were worth 9d.

WILLIAM WYCHERLEY CLARK . I am a schoolmaster of 1, Hornsey Villas—I saw an advertisement relating to this 3,000l. in the Weekly Dispatch and wrote to Grigsby and received letters from him—on 6th November I sent him a post-office order for 50s., and on the same day received a letter enclosing a receipt and an extract of the will—I searched and traced my genealogical tree, and spent 14l. doing so in North Devon—when I parted with my 50s. I believed the matter was a genuine transaction and that I should receive 3,000l. under the will.

Cross-examined by MR. OVENDEN. My first letter from Grigsby was September 22nd, they continued till November 6th—he asked for from 20l; to 60 l. for out-of-pocket expenses, and I was not in a position to pay it—I was progressing very favourably in my search in North Devon when I saw the account of the prisoner's arrest.

PHILIP CLARK . I am a shunter on the Great Northern Railway—in May, 1884, I saw in a newspaper an advertisement relating to the Clark bequest—I wrote to A. B. C. in Chancery Lane and received these eight letters (produced) from Grigsby and Co.—I believed the statement contained in them and sent them a post-office order for 50s.; I got a receipt in return and a copy of the will—I then put the matter into the hands of Mr. Gudgeon, my solicitor, and paid him 5l. to make the necessary search—before I sent the 50s. I believed it was a genuine matter.

Cross-examined. I had seven or eight letters from Mr. Gudgeon—I sent the 50s. for a copy of the will, and I got it—I have taken steps to obtain the return of the 5l. from Mr. Gudgeon, but have not got it.

HENRY STACEY MOREORAFT . I am a grocer, of Colchester—I know a Mrs. Clark—she showed me an advertisement in a newspaper referring to this bequest, and I wrote several letters at her request for the purpose of establishing her claim, and received letters from Grigsby and Co—about October I called at Grigsbyls in Theobald's Road and saw one of the clerks; I called again and saw Mr. Grigsby—that is the man (Pointing to him)—I told him my object in coming to him was to know whether this was a bond fide affair—he said "Yes"—I asked him what steps I should

take in the way of going on with the affair—he said that I could not do better than buy the copy of the will of him, which I did, and paid him 50s. personally—I parted with the money believing that it was a genuine transaction—after a little talk I found that I used to go to a Sunday school with him, and therefore I did not think he would take an advantages of me, and we shook hands, and then I paid him the 50s.—he said that one person had proved his claim, and to the best of his belief he got the money—I made certain inquiries after that, and did not part with any more money—Mrs. Clark has not received the 3,000l.—I went on getting certificates for six generations, and it cost me 10s. 4d. a generation.

Cross-examined by MR. OVENDEN. I paid for the will and took it away—if he had not said that it was genuine I should not have paid the money—he did not mention the claimant's name who had been paid, he said "One of them has proved the claim"—I think I sent him three generations.

THOMAS CLARK . I am a carman, of Kentish Town—Philip Clark, who has been called, is a friend of mine—I saw an advertisement in a paper, wrote to A. B. C. and Co., and received a letter from Grigsby and Co., dated Nov. 12th—my friend Philip Clark showed me a copy of the will—I then wrote to Grigsby asking what he would charge to go to Dibden, in Essex, and make a search, and then received three letters, all dated 20th Nov., 1884, and on 24th Dec. I received two letters dated Dec. 24th—there was a statement in one of them that four persons had proved out of 35—when I heard that I wrote to Dibden to the overseers, and went down there and raised 10l., which I sent to Grigsby and Co., by post-office order—I had not 10l. of my own, I borrowed it—I then received this receipt from Grigsby and Co. (produced)—when I paid the 10l. I believed it was a genuine matter and that I should receive 3,000l. under the will—I have received nothing.

Cross-examined. When I went to Dibden I saw the Rector in the Vicarage to search the books and find the certificates—it was not in consequence of what the Rector told me that I sent the 10l.—I saw in the paper next that Grigsby was arrested.

REV. WILLIAM CARTER MURIAL . I am rector of Dibden, in Essex—Thomas Clark consulted me about a search being made for certificates—no one has applied to me about such a search since January 1st.

Cross-examined. I have no parish clerk, I take charge of the registers myself—it is invariably the fact that when copies or extracts are required they are always made by me.

JAMES COOPER . I am an engine-driver, and live at 7, Bridge Place, Greenwich—I saw an advertisement in the Daily Telegraph referring to the name of Cooper. (This was the same as the former advertisement, except that the name of Cooper was substituted for that of Clark). I replied, and received this letter. (Stating that the bequest of 3,000l. had been left to persons of the name of Cooper whose ancestors had borne that name for seven generations, and asking for 50s. for a copy of the will). I sent a post-office order for 50s., received the extract from the will, and found that the name of Cooper was not in it, only Clark—I wrote on 4th February and complained, and on the same day received this letter. (This stated that the copy had been made for the name of Clark, and that the witness had only to substitute the name of Cooper, for Clark, to make it perfectly clear). I had sent my money then believing it to be a genuine affair—I never got any thing.

Cross-examined. I was aware when I sent the 50s. that I should have to prove my pedigree—I have not done so, I left it in his hands to do that.

WILLIAM DOBSON . I am manager at a woollen mill in Clara Street, Tansley, near Leeds—I saw an advertisement in the Leeds Mercury relating to James Hill Cooper Clark, in consequence of which I wrote to C. D. E., solicitors, stating that I could give a true pedigree for more than 100 years, and received this reply. (Offering to send a copy of the will for 50s). On February 9th I wrote this letter (Enclosing an order for 50s. for a copy of the will and instructions), in return for which I got this receipt and the copy—when I parted with my money I believed that if I could prove my pedigree I should be entitled to 3,000l.

Cross-examined. I did not produce my pedigree, but I knew where to find it.

NATHANIEL COOPER . I am engaged on Her Majesty's ship Polyphemus, at Portsmouth—I saw an advertisement in the Standard, in consequence of which I wrote, and received this reply, dated February 2nd, and on 10th February I wrote a tatter enclosing 50s. in a registered envelope, requesting a copy of the will—I received it, and after some time saw this case in the papers and communicated with the police.

Cross-examined. I wrote for the copy of a true will—I saw about a week afterwards that the prisoner was in custody.

RICHARD HALDENBY . I am clerk to England and Sons, solicitors, of Goul, Yorkshire—a lithograph letter was brought to me by Mr. Armsley, a client, who gave me instructions, in consequeuce of which I seat 50s. by postal order in this letter. (Requssting a copy of the will). I then received a letter acknowledging the 50s. and enclosing the copy of the will.

Cross-examined. I am managing clerk, and have had some experience in reading wills—I did not couturier this a genuine transaction, and I wrote a letter for further information, which was returned through the Dead Letter Office—I received the reply in the ordinary course—I don't know that Grigsby was taken in custody on February 19th.

JOSEPH CORNISH . I keep the Victoria Chambers, 56, Chancery Lane—Grigsby came there in September, 1883, and left about the middle of August, 1884—he had one room divided into two; "D. D. Grigsby and Co." was on the door—he said about March that there was an advertisement appearing in the paper for "A. B. C., care of Housekeeper, 56, Chancery Lane," and it letters came they were for him—alter that hundreds of letters came daily for several weeks; one day I counted them, and 239 arrived between 6 p.m. and 9 a.m.—the average number was about 100 daily—I put them on Grigsby's table—I can't say whether any of them were registered—those that came when the office was open were delivered to Grigsby direct—I saw Howard there nearly every day, and at all times of the day—I did not see him doing anything—when I asked Howard if Grigsby was in he said he was not, but would be in presently, and I used to go in again—there was one boy at a time in the office—he was constantly changed for a new one—the room was cut in two by a partition; the boy sat in the first room, and Grigsby and Howard jn the second—after Grigsby left I continued to receive letters, and handed them to his representative who came.

Cross-examined. "D. D. Grigsby and Co., Solicitors" was on the door

—I think I said at the police-court "I don't remember whether there was 'and Co.' at the end of Grigsby"—there are so many rooms in the house that I can't recollect—I saw several registered letters—I saw Howard in the office nearly every day.

JANE CAIN . I am housekeeper at 30, Theobalds Road—in August last there were two rooms to let on the first floor—Howard came and asked me the rent; I told him 65l. a year—he said that he wanted them for a friend, but did not say what he was—a week or two afterwards he came with Grigsby; they saw the office—I referred them to the landlord—they took the office, and "D. D. Grigsby and Co., Solicitors" was put up—Howard said that he was Captain Howard—he used to be there every day—he came early, before Grigsby, and left late—a good many letters came, and after the prisoners were locked up, letters still came, which I gave to the police—there were three boys there—a third room was taken in January.

JAMES PHILLIPS . I am one of the firm of John and James Phillips, law stationers, of Chancery Lane—we have done work for Grigsby; we copied some letters for him about the 21st and 29th of June, 1884—a boy brought the drafts, and we returned them by the boy—our account came to 11l. 7s. 10d.—I called once for payment, and saw the prisoner I believe—I think he and Grigsby were together—I asked for payment, but could not get it—we put the matter in our solicitor's hands, and two sums of 5l. each were paid—we had some rooms to let, and Grigsby called with Howard, who he called "Captain" on one occasion—the negotiations went off.

Cross-examined. The 10l. was received by our solicitor—I don't know whether Grigsby paid—Grigsby said on one occasion that he had a very large case in hand; money left by some one in America—I can't say whether Howard was there on that occasion.

Re-examined. He was there when American property was mentioned.

CHARLES FREDERICK TOOVEY . I am a law stationer and printer, of 55 and 56, Chancery Lane—I did some lithography for Grigsby—these circulars were done by my firm—I have the original draft—we did 150 copies of these octavo circulars on May 6th, 1884, and on May 17th 150 more copies, and on May 22nd 300 copies—they all refer to the Clark bequest—my account was 4l. 12s. 6d.—I have not been paid—Grigsby ordered the circulars—he introduced Howard as Captain Howard, one of the executors of the will referred to in the circulars.

Cross-examined by MR. OVENDEN. I never saw the draft of the will—he did not say a representative of one of the executors—the word representative was not used.

Re-examined. I knew the will, from the circulars and also from conversation with Grigsby.

HENSHALL FERRIDAY . I am manager to Luda and Company, 19, St. Swithin's Lane—they are agents for country solicitors—in, I think, September last we had a communication from a solicitor in Great Malvere, representing a person named Clark, who was making inquiries about a will advertised by Grigsby and Company, of Theobald's Road—I called there and saw a boy or clerk, and afterwards Mr. Grigsby—I told him I thought it was a peculiar story—he said "Oh, it is all right," and gave me the history of what one had to do, which was set out in a litho, circular,

and he said all the persons who want to come in must look sharp as it refers to a very few, and he introduced me to a person in the front room, and said "That is one of the executors under the will"—that was not Howard; it was a young man with a dark moustache—he didn't mention any name—he said that the executor had come over to look after the matter—he did not name the place in America where the will was proved, but he said it was in America, and that if my client could prove satisfactorily for so many generations past, he would have a share of the money—I told him I thought it was a swindle, and I should go to Mr. Williams of the Law Society and report it, and I did so.

Cross-examined by MR. OVENDEN. I have not heard that the Law Society has taken any action upon it.

EDWARD ALEXANDER CHAWNER . I am a clerk, and live at 27, Water-loo Road—in October last I saw an advertisement for a general clerk and office boy, in consequence of which I went to 30, Theobald's Road, and saw Howard on the ground floor—he asked me my age and salary and the place where I was employed, and said that he was a friend of Messrs. Grigsby and Company, and was seeing applicants for him, and told me to call next day at 2 o'clock, which 1 did, and saw Grigsby—he said that he had altered his mind, and was going to have two boys at two shillings a week instead of the junior clerkship I was seeking—I don't think I left my address, but I was communicated with a month after by a letter from D. D. Grigsby and Company, which I have destroyed, in which I was requested by Captain Howard to call at a certain time, which I did, but I was occupied, and I told my friend Bernard Locke of the place, and he went after the situation—on the same day that he went I received a letter asking me to call for a job of writing to be door at home—I went there and saw Howard—he showed me a letter, and told me to make two dozen copies of it at 1s. 6d. per dozen—this is one of the letter, begining, "If you are prompt in obtaining proofs you are nearly certain of the 3,000l."—Howard provided the paper—I copied the letters, gave them to him, and he paid me three shillings—I afterwards did about eight dozen copies more, which I took to the office and gave to Howard, and he paid me, and I once saw Grigsby give Howard the money to pay me—after that I copied more letters from applicants, and one from Clark of Ely—Ho ward gave me the paper—I coped eight or ten sets—there were red pencil marks on all the letters that had to be copied—I do not know whether they were Greek letters—I saw Howard make them—I heard Grigsby say "It is no use taking up any more cases from Ireland"—Howard said "No, I think not"—my brother copied similar letters to what I did—Howard said he was a captain in the Army, and a friend and client of Mr. Grigsby, and was seeing to the Clerk business for him while they were trying to claim some property of his.

Cross-examined. I think Howard said that he had nothing to do with the firm.

BERNARD LOCKE . I live at Walworth—shortly before Christinas Chawner spoke to me and I went to Grigsby's office in Theobald's Road and saw Howard, who asked me to do some copies of letters at 1s. 6d. a dozen—they were about the Clark bequest—I continued to do some of them till the end of February, and made about 20 dozen copies—Howard gave me the drafts, and I gave him the copies, and he paid me—I received this letter, dated January 17th, and went to the office, and told

Howard I had called in consequence of a letter I received that morning—it was then about 1 o'clock or 1.30—I did not show it to him. (In this letter Captain Howard requested the witness to call at 1 or 1.30).

Cross-examined. Howard used to sit in the private office—I only saw him writing once.

CLEVELAND CONDELL BOSS . I am a clerk, of 88, Isley Street, Kentish Town—in January, 1885, I advertised in the Law Times for a situation as shorthand clerk—I had a reply from Grigsby's, of Theobald's Road, went there and saw Howard, who engaged me—I think I commenced on February 2nd—I saw Howard there that day; he got there before me—he came into the office where I was; that was called the Clark office, to distinguish it from the Cooper-room, which was on the upper floor—Howard shook hands with me and told me he was a friend of Grigsby, who was a good fellow, and he was assisting him in his work—Howard was always called the captain—he did not tell me what he was captain in, but I found out by perusing a document in the Clark room; I saw a document which Howard wrote, and which described him so, and what purported to be his signature—Grigsby said that Howard was a retired captain in the Army, and had some property in Italy, and by some means or other had lost it—Grigsby gave me a lithographed copy of the Clark will to read; it was signed Captain John Scott—I told him I had heard somebody I know mention the name of Scott, and that he knew a Captain Scott, and I wan curious to know if it was the same person; he was in my father's old regiment, the Scob Greys—Grigsby said he would mention it to Howard, and afterwards told me that Howard said that Captain Scott belonged to the Bill Brigade—Grigsby showed me a letter signed J. Scott, and asked me if I knew Jack Scott, of the Scots Greys', signature—I said that I could not say—Howard was there nearly every day; he opened the letters and marked them with Greek letters—I received my instructions from him—I remember Grigsby being away three or four days to go to Leicester, and during that time Howard had the control of the office; he paid my salary once, and Grigsby on the other occasions—Grigsby had a banking account, but I can't say where—I have seen his cheque-book; I remember his closing his account—he drew out 68l., if I remember right, on the Monday alter the first remand—the daily correspondence was very large; they sent out sometimes 60, sometimes 100, and sometimes 150 letters a day—I can't say what letters came in—Howard and Grigsby sat in the same office—Howard used to bring a bag with him in the morning; I can't say whether it was empty—books were kept in the office but there was no cash-book, call-book, day-book, or journal—post-office orders for 50s. used to come; they were paid in to Grigsby's account—letters still came after they were arrested—I was paid off on the following Monday—I was there about three weeks—Howard said that he had been in the Diplomatic service; I think he said at Rome.

Cross-examined by MR. OVENDEN. I received no formal discharge; the office was going to be closed, and I could not remain—I did Lot see Howard open the letters, but when I went in they had been opened; I did not see the post-office orders in his possession—my duties were to superintend the boys and see that they copied the letters, and I had to attach them together.

ALFRED WILLLAM WARNER . I live at 48, Page's Wharf, Bermondsey

—in October last I saw an advertisement in the Daily Chronicle for an office-boy—I went to Grigsby's office, Theobald's Road, and saw Captain Howard, the prisoner—I saw Grigsby the same afternoon, and was engaged as a clerk at 6s. a week afterwards—Howard told me to write letters; they were about the Clark bequest—he sent me to Sell's office in Fleet Street for letters addressed to C. D., which I gave to him or to Grigsby; I don't know how many, as they were done up in a parcel which was rather large—I also went to Allison and Co., stationers, to fetch letters—Howard gave me this card (produced;) I did not see who wrote it, but I think it is his writing—I saw him mark some letters in the office with a red and blue pencil—I posted altogether about 10,000 letters while I was there; Grigsby gave me the money to pay for the stamps.

Cross examined. I regarded him as my master.

ALFERD SELL . I manage an advertising office, 167, Fleet Street—Grigsby called on me in January, and gave me an order to insert this advertisement. (The one referring to the Cooper bequest)—I showed it to my brother, who agreed that Grigsby might open an account—I then received another advertisement. (This was for persons named Cooper to apply to D. D. Grigsby and Co., when they would hear something to their advantage). This (produced) is the list of 33 newspapers in which I inserted these advertisements—I received about 1,000 replies, which were given to the boy as agreed—my account came to 14l. 5s. 6d.; I have receive 5l. of it on account.

ERNEST EDWARD KEEP . I am articled clerk to Messrs. Smiles and Co., of 50, Bedford Bow—I had instructions from a client to make inquiries about the Clark bequest—I went to Theobald's Road and saw Grigsby, and asked him where I could gee the original will—he said that it was in South America, but extracts had beta forwarded to him—I asked him about communicating directly with the trustees—he said that letters sent to them would be sent back to him, as he had been retained by the solicitors to prosecute inquiries in England, and that the first lawyers in New York were prosecuting similar inquiries there, but he did not give me their names—I asked the name of the trustees' bankers; he said he did not know it—I asked for the trustees' address; he said the acting trustee was Captain John Scott, Carlton House, America, and the last time he heard from him he was about to start on a hunting expedition; he was fond of sport and travel.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I cannot say that I asked for the solicitor's name—he did not give me the address, Carlton House, Windy Creek, Lake Erie—I did not ask for any document—he answered all my questions fairly and openly.

CHARLES BAKER (Police Sergeant). On 6th February I went to Grigsby's office and said, "I hare called to ask whether it is a fact that you are in the habit of giving out manuscripts to a man named Howard to be copied by clerks"—he said, "Yes, that is so; I made Captain Howard's acquaintance through an advertisement in the Times in March, 1884, asking for the assistance of a solicitor with time on his hands to take part in the floating of a public company, the object of which was to import volcanic lava, which was to be used, for the purpose of manure, but up to the present we have not succeeded in floating the

company, and Howard subsequently introduced a friend of his, Captain Scott, who is the acting trustee to the will of a deceased American millionaire"—I asked him if he had seen the original will—he said, "No, I have not, but I have seen extracts from it"—I asked him when Captain Scott was—he said in Brazil, and that the will had not been proved, but he had satisfied himself about it, and also as to the manure, both were thoroughly good—he said that Captain Howard assisted in examining claims in the office, and was also a kind of managing clerk, for which he received 3l. a week, and that the copies were given to the lads at his request, as it was cheaper than a law stationer.

Cross-examined by MR. OVENDEN. I have seen a prospectus of the Lava Company—I do not know whether one was found at the office; there was one either in Grigsby's or Howard's possession—Grigsby answered all my questions readily—I had informed him that I was a policeman.

HARRY TILMAN BROWN . I am a clerk in the London and County Bank, Limited, Holborn—Grigsby was a customer there—I made this copy of his account from the ledger which is in use at the bank—I have an affidavit of that by the manager. (The copy showed that 89l. 8s. was drawn out in favour of Howard between March 8th, 1884, and February 18th, 1885, in sums of from 2l. to 16l).

ANDREW LANSDOWNE (Police Inspector). On 19th February I took the prisoner and Grigsby on a warrant at 30, Theobald's Eoad, which I read to them—Grigsby said, "What does all this mean? It is a perfect surprise to me; all I can say is that I have carried out the instructions of my clients"—Inspector Smith was with me—when I entered the inner room where Grigsby was, I saw Howard leaving by another door leading on to the landing, with a small brown bag in his hand; Smith stopped him—Grigsby went to a safe, took out a bundle of papers, and said, "These are my instructions in the matter; I shall want them for the purpose of my defence"—I produce them—one is a letter from Mary Clark, of Acton—another is addressed to D. D. Grigsby and Co., dated December 1st, 1884, with the American post-mark; it is headed, "Fuller and more particular instructions," and signed "John Scott"—I found a number of lithographic copies of the extract from the will marked "Private, the wull"—one of these letters is marked in pencil, "100 copies"—I also found a copy of the memorial respecting the lava, to the Minister of Home Affairs, Madrid; it is the petition of Charles Howard for a concession to work the lava—this (produced) was the only account book in the office—I find in it an account of 71l. 15s. 4d. expended in postage-stamps since May, 1884, representing 17,000 letters: and amounts of 2l. 10s. each received for copies of the will in the Clark case amounting to 231l., and in the Cooper case from January 23rd to February 19th, 1885, to 288l.—I also found the original letters, which have been gives in evidence—the clerk's office was in very great disorder, papers shrewd about—I find on the map of South America 16 places named St. Jose—in the bag which Howard was carrying when he was arrested I found 60 letters unopened, addressed "C. D. E., care of Allison and Co., Oxford Street," which I opened—they were all from persons named Cooper—I find an entry in the book of 67l. 10s. received for inquiries—on his letter here is "Riverdale, Mill Hill Park, Acton"—I found no letter from Mary Clark, of Acton.

Cross-examined by MR. OVENDEN. I read a letter bearing an American

postage-stamp and post-mark—I do not think it was marked "Private and confidential"—it is the one which refers to fuller instructions—it is signed "John Scott"—it has not the address Carlton House, Erie, stamped on it.

EDITH CLARK . I am the wife of Charles Clark, of Riverdale, Mill Park, Acton—this letter is not my writing—I know nothing whatever about it—the only Captain Scott I knew has been dead three or four years—I know nothing of this will.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I have not a relation Edith Clark at 32, Lower Tulse Hill.

JOHN SMITH (Police Inspector). I took Howard, searched him, and found two pieces of paper, with a number of Greek characters in red and a number of addresses written in Greek.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I endorse what Grigsby has said. He has acted in good faith. If he has been deceived, I have been deceived. There has been no hole-and-corner work, and no arrangement about if he was to receive any sum and I any sum from the Clark business. I have had no fraudulent desire or benefit."

GUILTY . He then PLEADED GUILTY ** to a conviction of unlawfully obtaining property by false pretences in October, 1876.— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-372
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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372. CHARLES MORGAN (43) PLEADED GUILTY to stealing 2, 727l. 2s. 6d. of George Allen; also to stealing a large number of bonds and securities, the property of Sir Provo William Parry Waller; also to making false entries in certain books. MR. WILLIAMS, for the Prosecution, stated that the prisoner's defalcations amounted to about 44 000l.— Ten Years' Penal Servitude. And

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-373
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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373. GUSTAVE MAHLER (37) to unlawfully failing to deliver to his trustees in bankruptcy the whole amount of his estate; also to leaving England within four months of his bankruptcy and taking with him 1,370l. in money.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Fifteen Months' Imprisonment without Hard Labour.

THIRD COURT.—Thursday, May 22nd, 1885.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-374
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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374. CHARLES JOHNSON (21) , Stealing 260 yards of lace, the goods of Albert Lowenstein and others; also receiving the same.

MR. WOODGATE Prosecuted.

HENRY STRINGER (City Policeman 101). I was on duty on 20th April in Wood Street, about 10 minutes past 12 at noon, and my attention was drawn to the prisoner by another witness carrying two boxes—I asked him what he had got there—he said he did not know—I said "Where did you get them from?"—he said "A gentlemen gave me a shilling to carry them to No. 10, Bunhill Row"—I said "Your account is not satisfactory, and I shall take you to the station, where you will be charged with the unlawful possession"—I went to 10, Bunhill Row—it was a warehouse, but empty.

JOHN CHILDS . I am a carman to Messrs. Turgall and Jacobs, carmen—I live at Webb Court, Snows Fields, Bermondsey—on 20th April, about 5 minutes after 12 mid-day, I was with my van in Alderman bury, outside Bradbury's—I saw the prisoner and a young man walking behind

him—I knew him—he was carrying those two boxes, one in each hand—I watched them—the other man went straight down Aldermanbury—the prisoner went through Love Lane and Little Love Lane into Wood Street—when I got to the corner of Battle Street I saw and spoke to a constable—I had observed the prisoner the previous week in Friday Street, and in consequonce of what I saw then I took note on this occasion—he was with the came man then.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I did not see you steal the boxes—they were in your hands—you were coming from Gresham Street towards London Wall.

JOHN FARRELL . I am errand boy to Lowenstein and Pollock, of 29, Watling Street—on 20th April I had these boxes in my charge about mid-day—about 20 minutes past 12 I left them in a basket in a passage in Aldermanbury—I had occasion to go upstairs, and when I came down utter about half an hour, I found the two boxes gone—I next saw then in the police-court.

Cross-examined. I did not see you round my barrow—I never saw you—I saw no one.

ALBERT LOWENSTEIN (Interpreted). I am manager to my father, Solomon Lowenstein, who trades as Lowestein, Pollock and Company, at 29, Watling Street, lace manufacturers—the contents of these boxes are the property of the firm, and are of the value of 4l. 15s. about—they were given to Farrell by me on the 20th for delivery about 10.30.

The prisoner in his statement before the Magistrate and in his defence asserted that the boxes were given him by a gentleman to take to Mr. Hopkinson's, 10, Bunhill Roto, where he was to receive 1s.

GUILTY . He then PLEADED GUILTY ** to a conviction of felony in October, 1880, in the name of Charles Watltey.— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-375
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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375. ELLEN O'DONNELL (30) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of William Worthy and stealing a pair of trousers and other articles, and 2s., his property.

MR. WOODGATE Prosecuted.

WILLIAM WORTHY . I live at 2, Turner's Court, St. Martin's Lane, and am a waterman—on 10th May, between 2 and 3 o'clock, my wife awoke me by saying "Bill, Bill, there is a woman in the room"—I found the prisoner in the room coming towards the door—I saw a bundle on the chair between which and the door she was; it contained my trousers, three pillow-cases, a sheet, chemise, and apron, a child's cap, and two frocks, and all wrapped up in this apron—these things belong to me—I lost two shillings out of my trousers pocket—these things had been on the line across the room drying——when we went to bed the window was shut down tight, but not secured in any way, it was open when I found the woman there—the room was on the ground floor—I detained the prisoner and called for a constable—she had my wife's shawl on when I caught her, and my wife's plaid crossover—when I heard the constable coming I said "You have got my wife's crossover on" she tore it of her shoulders and threw it on the ground—I had never seen her in our neighbourhood before—our room is in the front, a dead wall runs in front of us up the court; there is no area.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I did not put these things in the bundle myself before the policeman came—I and my wife and one child were is one bed, and two other children in another bed iu the same room.

DANIEL McKENNY (Policeman E 214). I was on duty on 9th May—a little after 2 o'clock I was called to 2, Turner's Court, and there found the Prisoner detained by the last witness inside his room—these things were folded up in a bundle on a chair—I changed her—she said at first she lived in the house "and mistook my room;" immediately after, when told she did not live in the house by one of the lodgers who came up, she said she lived in the court and mistook the house—she was under the influence of drink, but knew perfectly well what she was doing—my attention was attracted by the prosecutor's wife shouting police in the street.

The prisoner in her defence stated that at one time she lived up the court, and she was sitting at the prosecutor's door on this night, when he dragged her in and ill-used her, and then made up the things in the bundle before the policeman came.

DANIEL McKENNY (Re-examined). There was no fastening to the window; it was open when I saw it sufficiently to admit a woman's body—it is about 22 inches from the ground—the prisoner gave no address—no money was found on her.

GUILTY . *— Nine Months' Hard Labour.

OLD COURT.—Friday, May 22nd, 1885.

Before Mr. Justice Hawkins.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-376
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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376. MICHAEL KAVANAGH (a police constable) was indicted for wilful and corrupt perjury.



WILLIAM AINGER (Police sergeant G 17). I produce a warrant dated 7th March last for the arrest of William Williams, issued by Mr. Bushby, of Worship Street Police-court-on 12th March Williams was brought there, placed in the dock, and charged by constable King with obstructing the police in the execution of their duty—he was remanded for a week—the charge was ultimatley dismissed by the Magistrate.

JOHN COSTIGAN . I am usher at Worship Street Police-Court—I was present on 12th March when Williams was charged with interfering with the police in the execution of their duty, and on 19th March on the remand—Kavanagh gave evidence; I administered the oath to him.

EDWARD LEE . I am chief clerk at Worship Street Police-cot—I remember the charge against Williams on 12th March read, containing the notes of 12th March—he was remanded to the 19th—the evidence was read to him. (Deposition of kavanagh of 12th March read, containing the statements: "The prisoner came up and said I had no business with the man there;" that Williams said to the bystanders "Come on, lads, let us get them away from the b——," and "Others got on to the roof and began to take the tiles off.") On the 19th Williams was brought up before Mr. Bushby—witnesses were called for the defence and the charge was dismissed.

Cross-examined. The evidence was upon a charge againse Cummings and another for stealing a coat, I believe, but I have no personal knowledge; I was not there—two other constables, King and Murphy, were examined—Williams preferred charges of perjury against them—Mr. Bushby committed Kavanagh for trial, and allowed the charged against

King and Murphy to stand over till after the result of trial—he subsequently fixed a day for hearing the summonses against the other two constables.

WILLIAM WILLIAMS . I live at 31, Beal Road, North Road, and carry on business as a smith at 71, Ford Road—on 27 th February I was in & Stephen's Road, North Bow, about 1.30 p.m.—I saw a crowd of people running into a yard—I went into the yard—I saw a constable in uniform and another man with a man in custody—there were two in private clothes, the prisoner was one; I did not know then that he was a constable—there was an outhouse at the side of the yard—a constable is uniform and another were at the end of the shed—I heard something which caused me to look into the closet—he had a young chap sitting on the closet; I have since heard it was Cumnings; he had his arm round his neck and his collar twisted, and was knocking his head against the partition—Cummings's face had a lot of blood over it—I told Kavanagi he ought to be ashamed of himself, and said "Don't kill the man, he's half dead now, if the man only knew it"—his eyes were popping out of his head; I mean his face was red and his eyes protruded from the strain—the prisoner held his face up and said "Look at my face, look at my knuckles;" the skin was off his knuckles—I said is served him right, as he was knocking his hand against the wall—I told the prisoner twice not to do it—I called another young man named Monk—as I went down the yard to get a constable one came in—blood was on the partition—I never said to Kavanagh "You have no business with that man there"—I did not say "Come on, lads, let us get them away from the b—"—it is not true that others got on to the roof to take the tiles of—on 11th March I was taken into custody on a warrant by two constables in plain clothes—on the 12th I was brought before the Magistrate; I was remanded till the 19th, when the case was dismissed against me—on 27th March I swore information against the defendant for perjury; two days alter I was released from custody—the Magistrate granted me a summons—I have carried on my business at 71, Ford Road, about 20 months.

Cross-examined. About 80 or 100 people were in the yard—a quiet orderly mob—a Mr. Webber was in the yard; he was not in my company—I swore before the Magistrate "Webber is a wheelwright, and has a shop in the same yard as mine; he was where the row was; he was a my company in the crowd; we had been out together"—Webber swore an information, and was examined as a witness before the Magistrate the defendant did not? say "We are police constables; I will be responsible"—King had a mop stick in his hand—I did not say when called upon to assist "Do your dirty work yourself"—I was not called upon to assist—I did not know till afterwards that the men were is custody for stealing a coat—I was not present at their trial; I know they were convicted when I was taken into custody on a warrant.

Re-examined. The majority of the crowd were women and children—I did not excite the crowd—I did not say "Yes, I was there; Monk, Day, and Mitchell were as bad as I was, and ought to be here as well as me," nor "I did not know you were policemen, or I should not have interfered."

MARY HANCHARD . I am the wife of James Hanchard, of 105, st. Stephen's Road; my husband is the owner of the yard where the disturbance

took place on the 27th February, and of the outhouses—about 1.30 that afternoon I heard a noise; I came to my back door which leads into the yard—I saw Kavanagh in plain clothes; I asked what they wanted—Kavanagh said he was a policeman, and asked me to let him inside the house with a prisoner—I told him I did not know who he was, and said "Send for a policeman in uniform and I will let you in"—I went out into the yard and shut the door—a crowd of people came afterwards—I saw Kavanagh push the prisoner into a narrow passage, and at the bottom of the passage is a closet—I heard his prisoner say "Don't choke me"—I did not hear the crowd call out anything—I saw Williams go up to the closet; I saw him come back; I did not hear him say "Come on, lads, at us get him away from the b—" I saw no one get on to the roof or take the tiles off; a boy climbed up a post and pulled down a wooden Jutter spout; none of the tiles are removed—I did not hear Williams incite the crowd in the yard to do anything.

Cross-examined. About 100 people were in the yard—the row lasted about half or three-quarters of an hour—when Williams went to the water-closet he was out of my sight—I never heard anybody call out or use any violent language.

Re-examined. The gutter-spout is five or six yards from the water-closet—I did not hear anybody speak at the end of the passage.

EDWARD FRENCH . I am a greengrocer, of 446, Old Ford Road—I have stables in Mrs. Hanohard's yard—on 27th February, about 2 p.m., I went to the yard; I saw Kavauagh there; I did not know he was a police-constable—another policeman was outside the door—Kavanagh was holding a man on the water-closet with the man's handkerchief round his neck—I saw Williams coming from the entrance towards the closet—I said to Kavanagh, "Don't kill the man"—there was some blood on the walls—I did not see the young man's face—I was at the lack of the crowd after that—the closet is 15 to 20 yards from the gateway. (A plan of the premises was produced and examined by the Jury.) I did not hear Williams say to the crowd at any time, "Let us get them away from the b—s; "I was not close enough to hear it; it might have been said—I saw no person clambering on to the outhouse and beginning to pull the tiles off—there was a crowd composed more of children than anything else—I did not see Williams offer any resistance nor invite the people to attack the police.

RICHARD BRADRINE . I am a job master, living at Three Colt Yard, St. Stephen's Road—about 1.30 on 27th February I went into this yard; about 100 children and grown-up people were there—I saw Williams; I did not hear him say anything—no one climbed on to the roof while I was there—I did not hear Williams incite the mob to do anything.

AMBROSE WILDMAN . I live at 180, St. Stephen's Road—on 27th February I went into this yard—I saw Kavanagh and two more policemen—Kavanagh was holding a man in the closet—he was hitting him pith a stick with a spike at the end, and punching him with his fist—all I heard Williams say was, "Don't murder the man"—I saw no one begin to take the tiles off the outhouse—the man Kavanagh brought out lot the closet had his eyes all bruised—Kavanagh had blood on his left fist—I did not see Williams interfere with the police in any way—I was close to Williams the whole time.

Cross examined. When Williams said "Do not murder the man" the

prisoner was striking the man with a stick with a spike at the end, while Williams was looking on.

Re-examined. I was there about 10 minutes.

DAVID MITCHELL . I live at 241, Old Ford Road—I went to see what this disturbance was about—I saw Williams there—I did not see him interfere with the police in any way—I did not hear him say to the police, "They have no business with a man there," nor to the crowd, "Come on, lads, let us get him away from the b—"—I saw no one get on to the roof and begin to pull the tiles off—I saw Kavanagh come away into the street—I went to the closet—I asked Kavanagh not to lose his prisoner if he could help it.

Cross-examined. I was not there all the time.

WILLIAM MONK . I am a builder, of 129, St. Stephen's Road—I saw the crowd in this yard; Williams was there—I saw Kavanagh come out with his prisoner—I did not see Williams interfere with him in any way, nor hear him say, "You have no business with a man there," not, Come on, lads, let us get him away from the b—," nor see any person pull the tiles off the roof, nor see Williams in any way incite the mob.

Cross-examined. I was there about 15 minutes altogether—about 100 people were present—Williams was standing in the middle of the yard about 10 yards from the closet—he was there while I was.

HENRY PERRYMAN . I live at 95, St. Stephen's Road—I saw Williams among the crowd in this yard—he went up towards the closet—I did not hear him say anything; I was four yards off—I did not see any one get on to the roof and begin to pull the tiles off—I did not hear him incite the mob in any way.

Cross-examined. I did not say before the Magistrate, "I did not hear Williams say anything; I was too far off to hear when he was at the closet"—I did say, "I did not hear Williams say anything"—I was too far off to hear Williams say anything.

HENRY KNIGHT . I am a poulterer, of 158, St. Stephen's Road—I saw Williams go to the closet—he said, "Do not kill the man;" then he walked back to the yard—I stayed till Kavanagh came away with his prisoner—I did not hear Williams incite the mob to attack the police in any way—I think I heard him say to the constable, "You have no busness with a man there; "I am not sure—I did not see any one climb on to the outhouse and pull the tiles off.

Cross-examined. I was there altogether about 20 minutes.

JOHN MONK . I live at 121, St. Stephen's Road—I saw William standing among the crowd in this yard—I walked towards the closet; williams followed me—he said something to Kavanagh in the closet—he then told me to stop there while he went to fetch a constable; he went away—I stopped there about two minutes, then I went back into the yard—I remained in the yard till Kavanagh took his prisoner away—I did not hear Williams say to the constable, "You have no business with a may there, "nor to the crowd, "Come on, lads, let us get him away from the b—," nor see any person begin to tear the tiles off the outhouse.

Cross-examined. I saw a constable with a stick there; I did not see it used—the prisoner had no stick.

Re examined. I did not see anything in the closet.

Witnesses for the Defence.

SAMUEL KING (Policeman K 294). On 27th February about 1.30 I was with Kavanagh in Old Ford Road—we received information about a coat being stolen—Kavanagh took a man named Cummings into custody—he took him as far as 103, St. Stephen's Road—I took a man named Chapple into custody—these men were subsequently charged with stealing a coat, and convicted—a crowd collected—our prisoners resisted—Kavanagh tried to take his prisoner in at the back door of Mrs. Hanchard's No. 105—she told me to fetch a man in uniform, shut the door, and went in—in the yard Cummings was very violent—in consequence of that I forced him down the covered way to the closet—about 100 people gathered in the yard—Williams went up the passage towards the closet—Murphy kept the crowd back—he had nothing in his hand—I had a mop handle—Williams said "Let the man go, you had no business with him in custody"—Kavanagh said "I am a police officer, I will be responsible"—Williams then came from the passage into the yard—he said" Come on, boys, let us get them away from the b—s"—three or four lads climbed up a post and pulled the gutter spouting down—they got on the roof—two constables in uniform came in—the prisoners were taken away—at the station neither of them complained of ill-usage Chapple kicked me in the leg—I subsequently took Williams on a warrant—I read it to him—he said on the way to the station "I was there, and Dave Mitchell ought to be here as well as me, if I had known you bad been police officers I should not have interfered"—the skin of Kavanagh's knuckles was kicked off, and they were bleeding very much.

Cross-examined. I do not know how the injury to the knuekles was caused—I should say he must have knocked them against the wall—Kavanagh was with me when I took Williams into custody—our prisoners were tried on the 28th, and they were remanded for six days—I have been in my division ten years—I did not know Williams had a workshop at 71, Ford Road, nor where he carried on his business—yes, I went and found him there—I did not know it when the prisoners were convicted—I did not say at the police-court that I knew where he carried on business—I found it out, but I did not know where he lived—I knew where he carried on business the first week in March—that was where I afterwards took him into custody—I reported the matter personally to the Commissioners the second day after it occurred—I wrote out the report and gave it to the inspector—the crowd was very disorderly—I had had one rescue—I know a man named Reynolds—I did not ask him to give evidence for me, nor the other witnesses—the constable volunteered his services—there is a summons against me—I saw a spot or two of blood on Kavanagh's prisoner's face, only a little fleck.

Re-examined. It appeared to me like a smear—the warrant was applied for by Inspector Williamson.

WILLIAM MURPHY (Policeman K 419). I was on duty and saw the crowd go into the yard behind 105, St. Stephen's Road—I went in—I saw Kavanagh with a man in custody—the man was very violent—I helped Kavanagh to put him in the passage—I did not go up the passage—I saw Williams go to the closet door, 1 stood at the end of the passage—Kavanagh and King told Williams they were policemen—Williams said "I know you are"—they asked him to go for assistance—Williams

came down the passage into the yard, and I heard him say he had me business with a man in custody, he said it to the mob—ho said "Come on, boys, let us take them away from the b—s"—other constables came, and the men were taken away.

Cross-examined. I never saw Williams before—the crowd was very violent—I made my report to the inspector the morning after the 27th—I made inquiries who Williams was.

GEORGE THOMAS TILLETT . I live at 33, Spanley Road, Bromley—I an iu the service of the Commercial Gas Company—I was working in the Old Ford Road when one of my men lost his coat—I spoke to the police—I followed Kavanagh and King with the two men they took into custody—I saw Kavanagh knocked down by his prisoner iu Old Ford Road first, and again in St. Stephen's Road—when he got up his hand was bleeding from the fall—Kavanagh took his prisoner through the gateway into the yard—I could not get in at first on account of the crowd, then I got to the gateway—I saw Williams go round to the road and come back again—he said, "Come on, lads, and let us have then away from the b—s"—the crowd recognised me as the man who gave the men in charge, and I was obliged to go; they were after me directly—I never saw Williams nor the constable before.

Cross-examined. I did not see that Cummings's face was bleeding—I did not go down to the closet—the crowd said, "That is the b—what made this disturbance," and they made a rush upon me.

JOHN WILLIAM MILLER . I am a shoemaker, of 48, Milton Road, Old Ford Road—I saw one man taken into custody—I saw the constables turn into the yard—I heard a remark about getting them away from the b—s.

JAMES REYNOLDS . I am a paper dealer, of 13, Bellhaven Street, Bethnal Green—I saw the constables go into the yard, followed by a crowd—I saw Williams in the yard—I saw him go down the passage; he shouted out, "Come on, lads, let's have him away from the b—s"—I saw two or three climbing up a post; they got on to the roof—the gutter was pulled down in getting up.

Cross-examined. The persons who got up began pulling about something, I could not say whether it was the tiles—I heard the name of the man who shouted was Williams.

JOHN ORDSLEY . I live at 4, Russia Road, Bow—I saw the crowd and the constables go into the yard—Williams went up the passage and back again—he said, "Come on, lads, let us have them away from the b—s"—I saw some lads get up the post—I am a carpenter—I was formerly in the police; I left last October to go back to my trade—I did not know Kavanagh when I was in the police.

Cross-examined. I was not in the S or K Division—I volunteered to give evidence—I first went to the police-court at Worship Street—I gave my evidence after Williams was acquitted—I heard about i✗ from the papers—I knew the name was Williams from the police-court—I was standing in the crowd—I did not hear the people say, "That is Williams."

FREDERICK SUTTON . I am a labourer, of 238, Grove Road—I saw the crowd in the yard and the police there, and saw Williams go up the passage—he came out of the passage and said, "Come on, my boys, let's take him away from the b—s."

Cross-examined. Fifteen or twenty rushed towards the passage—I did not rush towards the passage—a constable bad a stick across—I first heard the name was Williams at Worship Street; Mr. Abbott told me; he is Mr. Williams's solicitor—I only know Kayanagh by sight, I have not spoken to him.

THOMAS TURNER . I am a carpenter, of 109, Devonshire Street—I was in the yard and saw Williams go up the passage—when he came back he said, "Come on, boys, try and get the b—s away"—I saw two or three boys climb up the roof.

Cross-examined. I had not seen Williams before—no one spoke to me about this matter.

JOHN ROWLAND . I am an accountant, of 30, Oakland Road, Old Ford—I was in the St. Stephen's Road when the attempted rescue took place—I heard Williams say to the crowd, "Come on, lads, let's get them away from the b—s"—I saw the gutter spout torn down and some tiles torn off.

WILLIAM BURKE (Policeman K 41). I was at the station when Cummings and Chapel were brought in—they made no complaint—Cummings had not two black eyes; his face was not cut; there was some dry blood on his lace—Kavanagh's knuckles were bleeding.

Cross-examined. Constables and prisoners were smeared with mud and looked as if they had been thrown about—the prisoners were charged with assault.

DR. GORMAN. I am a surgeon, of Kent House, Bow Road—Kavanagh had severe laceration of the knuckles and on the back of his hand—I do not think they could have been caused by being knocked against the walls, they were so severely done—both King and Kavanagh had confused wounds—Kavanagh was under my care for three days.


18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-377
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

377. JAMES GOOD (61) , Stealing a dog, the property of Douglas Odell Kerr. Other Counts for stealing other dogs of different persons.



THOMAS GREET (Detective C). From information I received, at 6.45 a.m. on 15th April, I went to a house in Red Lion Yard with other officers—I saw the prisoner in an adjoining yard—I saw a dog, a cross between a Scotch and a Yorkshire terrier—I said "That dog was stolen from Hengler's"—he said "Oh, was it?"—I said "Where did you get it from?"—he said "A man brought it to me yesterday to have its ears clipped, but I could not clip the ears of a dog like that"—I said "Who was he?"—he said "I don't know, he was accompanied by a woman named Loo Dalton"—I handed the dog to Coleman, a watchman at Hengler's Circus—he identified the dog—Coleman took the dog outside the wicket door; the door shut to—Good opened the door wide and let put a large Scotch collie dog into Red Lion Yard—I went out and brought it back—it was identified as Mr. Kerr's dog—we went upstairs, and saw 40 dogs of all kinds in different rooms—some of them were valuable dogs—ten had been identified as stolen dogs—I asked Good where he got the black poodle from—he said "That's all right "—he said "The others are my patients"—at the station I said "Where did you get that collie from?"

—he said "The same wretch who brought me the terrier brought me the collie also two days before, I had my own thoughts about them when he brought them."

Cross-examined. Four officers including myself went to the premises—Good came down in his nigbt-gown, and did not keep us waiting—us made no impediment whatever—no houses overlook the yard, only a workshop—I have seen Good's card as a dog dealer and doctor—I had no knowledge of him 12 hours before I went to him.

GEORGE GOLDMAN . I am a watchman at Hengler's Circus—I went with the officers to Good's house on loth April—I there saw a terrier belonging to Mr. Hengler; it was missed from the circus in Argyle Street on the 9th of April.

Cross-examined. It was a watch dog; it was about the buildings in the day time.

DOUGLAS ODELL KERR . I live at Woodside, Salter's Hill, Upper Norwood—on 28th April I saw at the Clerkenwell Police-station a collie day belonging to me—I last saw it in my possession on 31st March—on that day it was missed—I had had it about three weeks—the name and address of Mr. Hickson, who had given it to me, was on the collar.

Cross-examined. The dog was in the house when I left in the morning—it was under-hung—it knew me pretty well—I had been at home.

CLEMENT EDWARD CORDUROY . I live at I, Copal Villas, Lower Norwood—I saw at Clerkenwell Police-station, about 21st April, an Irish terrier belonging to me—I went out on the 26th of March, about 8.30 a.m., leaving the dog at home—when I returned in the evening the dog was gone—my nurse used to have it out sometimes—I had had it ✗ July last; I had not lost her before.

Cross-examined. I believe it had slipped its collar.

HANNAH ATKINSON . I am a housekeeper at Hope Cottage, Upper Norwood, to Mrs. Eliza Benn—on the 28th of April I saw a black-✗-tan terrier belonging to Miss Benn at Clerkenwell Police-station—I last it on the 2nd of April at Western Hill, Upper Norwood—the dog ran after another dog, and I lost sight of it—it has run out of my slight before, but has always returned—it had on it a collar and a padlock with Miss Bonn's name and address on it.

WALTER DANIEL MCDUFFY . I live at 30. Copplestone Road, Denmark Park—on the 21st of April I saw at Clerkenwell Police-station a black French poodle belonging to Mrs. Herbert Williams, my sister, of 60, Elliott Road, Anerley—I saw the dog safe on the 30th of March—I was there on the 31st of March, and the dog was missing; it wore no collar.

Cross-examined. It had not been clipped lately; I have seen it clipped—I had had it two or two and a half years—it is three or three and a half years old.

JOHN ADAMS . I live at 7, Southampton Mews, Russell Square—I saw a pug dog at Mr. Good's premises at the end of April—I identified it—Good was in custody—he would have been more valuable, but the ✗ had scratched his eye out—I let him go to a man called Jaspar on sale or return.

Cross-examined. He had not two curls in his tail—he might have a curl and a half—I have known Good 32 years as a dog dealer and a doctor—he used to be in Leadenhall Market—he is a skilful doctor—it

I had 500 dogs to be doctored I should take them to him—Jaspar sent me a letter that the dog had run away.

JAMES MARTIN . I am a licensed victualler, of 2, New Oxford Street—on 28th April I went to Clerkenwell Police-station and identified a Scotch terrier belonging to me—I missed it on the 25th March—it was standing outside my house—I had had it two and a half years—it had a collar on with ray name and address engraved upon it—I have lost one before—I got it from the Dogs' Home.

ELIZABETH HAYES . I am the wife of Herman Hayes, of 16, Excell Terrace—on the 28th April I identified a white bull terrier belonging to my husband at the Clerkenwell Police-Station—about three weeks before I had let it out as usual by itself—it never returned—it had not strayed before—it had a collar on, but no name and address.

Cross-examined. It had a white spot on its eye—I never got a doctor to treat it.

GEORGE FINE (City Policeman H 129). I live at 29, King's Square, Goswell Road—on the 28th April I saw at the Clerkenwell Police-station any Yorkshire terrier—I missed it on the 6th February—it had no collar on.

Cross-examined. I had once seen it in a fit.

JANE PINE . I am the wife of the last witness—I took my Yorkshire terrier dog out on the evening of the 6th February—I missed it while I was out—it never come back—it had not its ears cut when I missed it—when I found it it had.

CHRISTINA MACKENZIE . I am the wife of Frederick Mackenzie, of 27, Cleveland Mews, Lancaster Gate—on the 28th April I saw at the police-station a black-and-tan dog, a turnspit, belonging to Mr. John Pool, of No. 86, Lancaster Gate—on the 2lst March it was under my charge at the stables—I missed it from the stables—the dog often went out and came back, but on this occasion it never returned.

Cross-examined. The owner of the dog was not out of town—it was usually kept at the stables—it had no collar on.

HENRY SMITH . I live at the Cottage, Red Lion Yard, Clerkenwell—Good is my father-in-law—about a week after I took the house he agreed to rent all the rooms and the yard at 12s. a week—he is a dealer in dogs.

Cross-examined. He used to be in Leadenhall Market for a number of years—his house was pulled down, and he went to live at Red Lion Yard—he has been about a year there—he has spent his life in the dog-dealing and dog-doctoring profession as long as I have known him—I married his daughter—I have known him get 100 guineas for a dog—one of the small dogs said to be stolen are worth a guinea—the rough one would be—they would not keep for stock dogs.

WILLIAM COOPER . I went with Greet and the other officers to this yard—the dogs spoken to by the witnesses are some of the dogs we took away.

Cross-examined. The prisoner has been out on bail—we did not take 111 the 50 dogs to the station.


NEW COURT.—Friday, May 22nd, 1885.

Before Mr. Recorder.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-378
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

Related Material

378. DAVID GRIGSBY , Unlawfully conspiring with Charles Howard (see p. 217) to cheat and defraud divers persons.




HENRY STACEY MOORCROFT assented to his former evidence.

Cross-examined. To the best of my belief the prisoner said that one person had received the money, but I will not swear to it—the conversation was about September—I took no note of it—I gave evidence at Bow Street in March this year—I attended a Sunday school and Bible class with the prisoner at Chelmsford—I knew him about 18 months—I believe his father is a dissenting minister now.

REV. WILLIAM CARTER MURIAL assented to his former evidence.

Cross-examined. I never spoke to the prisoner before this—his father is reported to be a dissenting minister—I do not know him.

JOSEPH CORNISH repented his former evidence.

Cross-examined. I never saw Mr. Britten, an articled clerk—I was on the fifth floor and the prisoner's office was on the second floor—there name up was "D.D.Grigsby, solicitor"—I am not sure whether it was "and Co."—the name is still up—Howard was there at all times of the day—I have heard him called "Captain"—I have not heard of him since as Count Monti—I have not heard that he has had penal servitude for five years, being sent from this Court in 1876, or that he was a War Office clerk in 1855 in the name of Wilmot, or that he was convicted of frand in Ireland in 1884, or that he was prosecuted by the Charity Organisation Society last year for attempting to defraud the Duke of Montrose.

JANE CAIN repeated her former evidence.

Cross-examined. Howard came first every day and left last—I know Mr. Britten, the articled clerk to Grigshy—I believe he is in the country.

CHARLES FREDERICK TOOVEY repeated his former evidence, and added: Grigsby introduced Howard as one of the executors of the Clark will, but I thought he looked far too shabby to be mixed up with such large estates.

Cross-examined. The introduction took place in May, 1884, but I made no note of the conversation—I can tax my memory as to the words used—it lasted I dare say a quarter of an hour, for I was asked to print some more circulars, and refused to do so, because I had not got my money—Howard was not up to much; he did not look like a captain, and I had my suspicions about the whole affair.

Re-examined. I never heard of 150,000l. to be given away in that way before.

JAMES PHILLIPS repeated his former evidence.

Cross-examined. Grigsby used to say to Howard "What do you think of that, captain?"—he said once that he had a very large case on hand; money left by some one in America.

EDWARD ALEXANDER CHAWNER repeated his former evidence, and added: I heard Grigsby say "It is no use taking any more cases from Ireland"—Howard said "No, I don't think so"—Howard said that he was a captain in the army, and a friend and client of Messrs. Grigsby, and they were trying to claim some property of his.

Cross-examined. There was a clerk in the office; I don't know his name

—he was not a dark young man; he was fair—I saw Howard mark the letters with characters which were not English—Howard said that he had nothing to do with the firm—he was a client, and they were trying to claim some property for him, and while they were doing so he was acting as clerk.

BERNARD LOCK repeated his former evidence.

Cross-examined. All the instructions were given me by Howard, and he paid me—I save the articled clerk there; he was not in the room with Howard, but in the room with the other clerks.

ALFRED WILLIAM WARNER repeated his former evidence.

Cross-examined. I press-copied and posted letters in connection with she wills by the direction of Mr. Britten, the articled clerk—he was there nearly every day—he seemed acquainted with the whole matter, and I think he went into the country to make searches—I did not see him at Bow Street—I think the press copies were in the office when I was last there—I cannot recollect the county they were addressed to.

Re-examined. I did not see Britten go off by train to Lancashire.

CLEVELAND CONDELL ROSS repeated his former evidence.

Cross-examined. I had a good deal of conversation with Howard—he once referred to his estates in Italy—he did not complain of the conduct of some wicked man named Rossa there who was keeping him out of his patrimonial property—he said that he used to be in the Diplomatic Service at Rome—he did not tell me that he had been in penal servitude, or that he had been a clerk in the War Office—Mr. Britten was an articled clerk there for a short time while I was there—he was away most of the time—letters were sent for him to the care of a firm of solicitors at Pontefract—I did not hear Britten receive directions to make searches at places out of London, but he told me he was going to make searches, and he frequently said he was going to Yorkshire to make searches—I saw him at Bow Street, but did not tell Mr. Simms, or Inspector Crisp, or Inspector Lansdowne that he was in Court.

ALFRED SELL repeated his former evidence.

HENSHALL FERRIDAY repeated his former evidence.

Cross-examined. I only had one interview—I was not called as a witness at the police-court—I was not there when I ought to have been—I gave my evidence yesterday for the first time; I volunteered it—I have not seen the solicitor—when I saw that the prisoners had been arrested I wrote to Inspector Lansdowne, and he or Inspector Smith came and saw me—I told him that Grigsby introduced somebody to me as the executor of Captain Scott—he asked if I could swear to him if I saw him, and I said "Yes"—the conversation lasted the best part of half an hour—I did not make a note of it; it impressed itself on my mind, because there was not a legal paper about the office, and no red tape.

ERNEST EDWARD KEEP repeated his former evidence.

Cross-examined. Grigsby gave me to understand that he was solicitor In England for the trustees.

CHARLES BAKER (Police Sergeant) repeated his former evidence.

Cross-examined. I am attached to the Convict Supervision Office—I rent to Grigsby's office to inquire after my old friend Howard, who was under police supervision; I wanted to look him up—I know all that the police know about him—I have heard that he was a clerk at the War office in 1855 one of his aliases is Talbot Bouverie Cleveland Wilmot

—he has been in Ireland but I cannot fix the date—he was convicted on two indictments in Ireland and sentenced to two years—in 1876 he appeared before the learned Recorder in the name of Charlos Howard alias Judford, on a charge of obtaining 380l. from Mr. Richard Harrey, and was sentenced to five years' ponal servitude (See Vol. LXXXIV. p. 625)—in 1882 he was again charged before the Recorder with obtaining various sums from the Duke of Montrose and the Duke of Sutherland—he then described himself as Count Ricardo and Rasponi, and said in a letter signed Hoovardo that he was the son of the late Comte de Monti and was in great trouble through his agent Rosa having absconded with his funds, and requesting the loan of a few pounds; that he was godson to the Earl's father, who was intimately acquainted with the count's father, and tried to obtain from the Lord Lieutenant, Fard Spencer, various sums of money—he received the utmost sentence, twelve months' imprisonment. (See Vol. XCV., p. 678.) There was also another conviction under the provisions of the Crimes Act.

Re-examined. Grigsby told me he was very uncomfortable at my visit, he asked me if I knew anything about Howard, and I made an imputation upon Howard's character—I refused to tell Grigsby the object of my visit.

By MR. PURCELL. Suspicions were communicated to the police in consequence of various little boys having been taken to the office by Howard, and in one case taken by him to Richmond—that is what drew my attention to Grigsby's office—Grigsby said that he made Howard's acquaintance in March, 1884, through an advertisement in the Times "Wanted a sharp solicitor to conduct an enquiry office," or something to that effect.

HARRY TILMAN BROWN assented to his former evidence.

ANDREW LANSDOWNE repeated his former evidence.

Cross-examined. I thought Howard might try to escape by slipping out at the back door—the papers were marked in Greek letters—inspector Von Tornau was with me—he is not here—I found a memorial asking permission to work the lava company—I think the letters which Grigsby said were for his defence are all the same date, December 3rd—they are written in a small hand containing instructions under a number of contingencies.

EDITH CLARKE assented to her former evidence.

The prisoner received a good character. GUILTY.— Judgment respited.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-379
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

379. JOSEPH SHAY (18) and WILLIAM CHILLEY (20) , Feloniously forging and uttering an order for the payment of 45l. 11s. 4d. with intent to defraud.

MR. RAVEN Prosecuted; MR. WOODS Defended.

JOHN HUMMELL . I am chief clerk to James Epps and Company, cocoa manufacturers, Holland Street, Blackfriars—on March 19th Shay came and handed me this paper in an envelope and an order on blue tissue paper with a request to have it returned—I should say that the order and the letter were in the same writing—the order was returned to Shay—to the best of my memory it ordered eight cases of cocoa in quarter pound packets, and gave the mark 23 and E. B. underneath. (The letter requested them to execute the order if possible at once, and if so to give the bearer a preference invoice. Signed, Field and Capes.) I gave instructions

to have the order prepared, and gave Shay an invoice for the cases, with a request to furnish us with the numbers—he left and returned in two or two and a half hours, and gave me another envelope containing this memorandum and cheque: "Sir,—I herewith enclose cheque for value. Yours obediently, Field and Capes." (The cheque was on the City Bank for 45l. 11s. 4d. Signed, Field and Capes.) The goods were then in our warehouse all ready except the numbers—I gave a receipt for the cheque—he said that his van was outside, and I told him to send it round to the gateway and receive the goods, and I saw them being put into it—Chilley had charge of the van—Shay did not go round to the back, he disappeared altogether then—the cheque was paid into the bank and came back next day marked "No account"—the book from which this cheque was taken is said to have been stolen from our customer—I do not know Field and Capes, but they are a well known firm.

CHARLES JOSEPH CAPES . I am one of the firm of Field and Capes, 307 to 310, High Street, Wapping—these orders are not signed by us or by our authority, nor are they on our memoranda or similar to them; I Know nothing about them—we do not bank at the City Bank.

Cross-examined. I gave evidence at Gilbert's trial, and these documents were handed to me.

ALBERT JAMES KELLY . I am cashier of the City Bank, Threadneedle Street, we have no account there in the name of Field and Capes—this cheque was presented and returned marked "No account" in my writing—it was issued by us to Mr. J. A. Turner on 5th December, 1883.

Cross-examined. I gave evidence in the Gilbert case and the cheque was shown to me then—I have also given evidence in other cases.

JAMES ANTHONY TURNER . I live at 74, Gresham Road, Brixton—I formerly carried on business as a ship and insurance broker, and had an account in the City Bank, Threadneedle Street; I got a cheque-book from them in December, 1883, and lost it about January 9th, 1884; about 15 cheques had been used out of 60; this cheque is one of them.

HENRY BROWNING . I am warehouseman at Epps and Co.'s—on 19th March I prepared eight cases of cocoa; Mr. Hummell gave me instructions—I put on the marks and numbers, and Chilley loaded them on one of the vans and signed for them "Wm. Davis" in this book (produced); I saw him write this.

WILLIAM CROSS (City Police). I arrested Chilley in March, on another charge; nothing was said then about this charge—when he was at the station he said to one of the witnesses, "Yes, I know you, I know I had the cocoa."

Cross-examined. I knew nothing about Loraine then—the charge on which Chilley was in custody was not one in which he was jointly charged with Loraine at the Mansion House; it was trying to obtain some cheeses; Loraine was not charged with that, he has been charged with Loraine since—Loraine has had 14 years' penal servitude for forgery.

Re-examined. That was another charge altogether, and there was another charge at the police-station for attempting to obtain cheeses, but that was not the charge at the police-court.

GUILTY of uttering. Strongly recommended to mercy by the Jury on account of their youth. MR. MEAD stated that there was very little doubt that the prisoners had committed the offence at Loraine's instigation. Nine Months Hard Labour each

THIRD COURT.—Friday, May 22nd, 1885.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-380
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceMiscellaneous > sureties

Related Material

380. JAMES JEFFRIES WALLACE , Unlawfully obtaining goods by false pretences and fraud and incurring a debt and obtaining credit by false pretences and fraud.

MR. BESLEY Prosecuted; MESSRS GRAIN and STUDD Defended.

MR. BESLEY referring in his opening to the fact that the defendant had previously been adjudwated a bankrupt, MR. GRAIN objected to any statement being made as to the prisoner's pecuniary antecedents as being irrelevant. He also objected to the joinder of one Count under the Debtors Act, 1869, with two Count's for false pretences under the Larceny Act. The charge preferred against the defendant before the Magistrate had been under the Larceny Act (24 and 25 Vie. c. 96, sec. 88) for obtaining money by false pretences; this charge was dismissed, but the prosecutor was bound over to prosecute under the Vexatious Indictments Act. He had now joined to the false pretences Counts another Count under the Debtors Act (32 and 33 Vic. c. 62, s. 13, sub-section 1) for incurring a debt by false pretences and fraud, and MR. GRAIN argued that no leave having been obtained from the Court, the added Count should be quashed. Mr. Besley contended that the Amendment Act of the Vexatious Indictments Act (30 and 31 Vic. c. 35, s. 1) gave power to include in an indictment for false pretences any Count or Counts for any offences being misdemeanours which might lawfully be joined with the rest of such indictment. The sole condition was that such added Counts should be founded on the facts in the depositions, and it was when new matter was introduced, and not until then, that the Court could interfere. After pleading NOT GUILTY the defendant could, if this Count had been improperly added, raise the question on a writ of error. With respect to proving bankruptcy, it was essential in order to show that the defendant was not in a position to buy three ships and control the appointment of their captains. The COMMON SERJEANT, after consulting with the Recorder, overruled MR. GRAIN'S objections.

ALFRED HENRY WILDEY . I am assistant receiver acting for the official receiver, and am an official of the Board of Trade—I acted in the matter of John Jeffries Wallace, who traded as Wallace and Co., merchants and steamship brokers—this is the file of proceedings in his bankruptcy—the petition was filed on 18th August, 1884, by William Richard, Prince Edward's Island, Canada, for 800l.—there is also on the file his statement of affairs signed and sworn by him—he swears he owes 16,038l. 4s. 10d. and his assets are 617l. 11s. after deducting preferential claims—the assets are composed of 740l. surplus from securities in the hands of creditors fully secured, and 10s. cash—a proposal was made of a shilling in the pound—the creditors assented to it—before such a composition can be passed the Court has to consider the facts, and the official receiver has to report to the Court—in pursuance of my duty I made such a report; it is true—I recollect the main circumstances with reference to the report—I had communication with him at the meeting of his creditors—they put questions to him, and I took notes—I have not my note-book here. (The witness retired to fetch his note book.)

JOHN SINCLAIR . I hold a master's certificate, and have been engaged in the mercantile marine for 20 years—I have been a master for four years—in July, 1884, I had some money standing in my own name and that of my wife at the Richard Green Building Society, 56, Fenchurch Street—I replied to this advertisement. (This was to the effect that a captain was wanted immediately for a sailing vessel, but that he need not apply unless able to deposit 500l.) I got a reply, and went to Wallace's office, 15, Great St. Helens, where I saw the defendant—when I had introduced myself to him he said he was about to buy three ships, the Lady Louisa, the Cabana, and the Daylight, and asked me to go and look at them; they were lying off the jetty buoys off the London Docks—I went down the same day, and looked at the three ships all over—I came back on the same afternoon—on the next day, it would be the 10th or 11th, I told him I preferred the Lady Louisa—he said the thought the Daylight was preferable—I said "No, I prefer the Lady Louisa, the Daylight is an old ship"—an arrangement was made that I was to go and look at the inventory, which had been made out of how the ship was fitted; there were a lot of inventories on board—I took one, and went over the things, and found they were correct, and I reported that to Mr. Wallace—after that he asked me if I could not get the money—I said I could not get it for a day or two on account of the making up of the half-yearly interest, and he asked me where it was, and I told him the Richard Green Building Society—one morning I took him down there to show him where the place was—he asked me if I could not get it out—the manager and clerks there told him they were making up the half-yearly interest of the accounts—he then took me to Mr. Cummings, without saying why, to his office in Gracechurch Street—the name over the door was Barter and Co.—the prisoner told Mr. Cummings I had got money in the Richard Green Building Society, and was not able-to get it out—I believe I showed my Richard Green book, showing that 440l. had been deposited a few years before in January or February, 1884, in the name of myself and wife—Mr. Wallace suggested I should give an order on the Richard Green, and I think he wrote this order, and I signed it: "London, 18th July, 1884. To the manager of the Richard Green Building Society. Please pay to Messrs. W. Barter and Co., or to bearer, the sum of 440l. with interest, the money deposited with you by Jane and J. Sinclair. J. Sinclair." That was given to Wallace the same day—Mr. Cummings gave me this cheque the next day, the 19th I think, when I and Wallace went to him together –the cheque was for 440l.—I endorsed it and gave it to Wallace—I cannot say positively, but I believe he handed it to Cummings—the cheque is dated the 19th—I signed this agreement on the 17th—it was not given to me on the 17th—I read it before I signed it—I believed the prisoner was part owner—I had to wait for a copy for some two days—I had parted with my order before I got the copy. (By this agreement J. J. Wallace and G. Hedley engaged John Sinclair to command the Lady Louisa at 16l. per months the owners paying all expenses, his wife being allowed to draw 9l. per month on account, while Sinclair was to advance 500l. by way of loan to Wallace and Hedley at 6 per cent, interest. Each party could, terminate the agreement by a month's notice in writing, when the money was to be returned to Sinclair, who had a lien on the freight as security for the 500l.) I believed when I gave Wallace the cheque that he was co owner with Hedley—I worked on board the ship previous to

the 17th—on the 25th I went to the Society to see what balance I should have to pay to make up 500l.—I then found the interest on my 440l. amounted to 7l. 6s. 8d.—that had been drawn under the order to Barter and Co.—I received this letter from Wallace. (Asking him to call tomarrow, as he wanted him to go to the West India Docks to look at the Christion and to bring the 60l. with him.) I took the 52l. 13s. 4d., and he gave me this receipt. (Wallace and Co. Received from Captain John Sinclair the sum of 500l. as per agreement dated 17th July, 1884.) I believed he was part owner of the ship when I paid him that balance, and that belief influenced me; I should not have done it if I knew what I do now—the ship was loaded in the London Docks, and was towed down to Gravesend—1 went there, and on the morning of 14th October we were hauled out from the docks—I got a telegram from Hedley on board ship, and in consequence of that went to his office on 14th October—I saw Hedley; Wallace was not present—up till that day I always believed Wallace had an interest in the ship—I sailed in the barque for East London on the south coast of Africa, and reached there in the night of 6th January, and commenced discharging the general cargo two days after—on the 16th the ship was seized—a fortnight before the cargo was all discharged another captain was put in charge, and I was discharged—he was on board, but did not take command till after the cargo was discharged—I should not have parted with my 500l. if I had known the prisoner had no power to keep me as captain of the ship—I had to come back to England by one of the mail boats, and arrived here on 16th March—about 10 days afterwards I went to Messrs. Lewis and Lewis, my solicitors—I saw the prisoner two days after my arrival in his office—I had received this letter from him dated 15th January at East London before I left the ship. (This announced that he and Hedley had failed; that the Merchant Banking Company had told the ship to Mr. Thomas Rees, who had offered to give him the command of another barque, and that directly the affairs were settled he would let him take the ship back again at the price he had paid for it, when he (Sinclair) would return to his original position). The other captain held a power of attorney from the Merchant Banking Company—I have seen Rees—when I saw Wallace two days after my arrival I bade him good morning—he told me it was a bad job; I told him it was—he said he was very sorry he was not in a position to return my money then, but he would do so—I did not ask him to name a time—he asked me alter his son, and I gave him all the information I could about his son—I did not say anything about money matters because my wife had been there repeatedly for money and could not get a penny; she had drawn none of her 9l. a month—I was paid my 16l. a month in East London by the people who put in the new captain before they could discharge me—I did not see the prisoner again—I went to my solicitors and left it in their hands—I have had no 6 per cent, interest—I said nothing to Wallace about the freights being liable for my 500l.—my agents out there drew 60l. from the freight money, 30l. for the lien on the freight, and 27l. for my wages, half-pay—I did not get my 16l. a month besides the 27l.—the freight was interdicted—I first knew of Hodley being in difficulties when the letter roached me in February—I have got back no part of my 500l.—the lien on the freight and my wife's half-pay balanced one another.

Cross-examined. I would not pay 500l. to get command of a ship, I wanted the command—I must have said at Guildhall, "I advanced 500l.

to Mr. Wallace to get command of the ship," if it is in the depositions—I advanced the money because I wanted the ship—I said at the Guildhall that there was no understanding as to how long he was to have the 500l.—that is Mr Hedley (Pointing to a gentltman in Court)—I entered into this agreement on 14th October with Hedley; it was used at Guildhall. (This agreement was precisely similar to that made between the witness and Wallace and Hedley, except that throughout this one Hedley was substituted for Wallace and Hedley, and it was signed J. H. Medley.) This relates to the same transaction and the same 500l.—I am not prosecuting Hedley—I have received no receipt from Hedley—I took this agreement because Mr. Hedley had never signed the other one—I had Dot seen Hedley for some time after the contract was signed—the agreement was the result of the conversation I had with Hedley on the morning of the 14th after receiving a telegram from him—I don't know what Wallace did with my 500l.—I said at Guildhall, "I took this agreement in order to hold Mr. Hedley responsible for the 500l. if he received the money; it was at my request that this agreement was drawn up, and in order that I might substitute Mr. Hedley as the person to pay me 500l. in place of Mr. Wallace because Mr. Hedley was the owner of the ship"—I only knew from Wallace's letter that he would try and get me the command of the chip again—the prisoner handed the cheque across the table to Mr. Cummings, a partner in Barter and Co.—there is not the slightest doubt he did so; I could not say positively whether I saw him do it or not—I endorsed the cheque, and underneath my signature it is endorsed, "W. Barter and Co., pay to the Merchant Banking Company;" they were the mortgagees—I saw Mr. Rees; I was not introduced to him, he spoke to me the morning I saw the prisoner after I arrived—I believe he is the present owner of the Lady Louisa—the prisoner was away when Rees spoke to me—Rees said he would have another ship ready in five or six weeks, but that his class of ship would not suit me—he did not say he would try and get me command of a ship, but since then he has offered me a barquentine in Marseilles to take to the Colonies on certain conditions—I have never spoken since to Mr. Hodley about this matter—I have taken no proceedings against the mortgagees for my 500l.—Mr. Dealy, one of the managers of the Merchant Bank, told me he ignored the name of Wallace—I have heard it read out that Wallace's trustee in bankruptcy is claiming on behalf of the creditors that the prisoner is part owner of the Lady Louisa—according to the contract he was not—if he had shares in the other two ships he must have had of the Cubana, because one ship would not be sold without the other—I don't say Mr. Wallace ever said he was the sole owner; I knew he was not sole owner from the beginning—he said he owned half the ship, and he had put it down as halt—I knew the trustee was claiming for that amount.

Re-examined. I don't know who is the trustee; I have never been told anything about it—I know nothing about Wallace's estate, only that he claims a share in these ships, and I derive that from reading a statement of his affairs—Mr. Rees wanted to know if I would take a barquentine to New Zealand free, providing provisions for the crew, and to sell the ship out there and take 10 per cent. on the sale—that was three weeks or a mouth ago, after I had taken out the summons—I had heard of Rees, but never seen him before I returned in March—I had no transactions with him—my object in paying the 500l. was to get food for my wife and

family—I could have gone as mate—Hedley told me nothing about his being in difficulties when I got his signature; I first knew of his bankruptcy by Wallace's letter in February—when the agreement of 14th October was made between myself and Hedley he told me Wallace had nothing to do with the ship, and that was how Wallace's name was left out in the second agreement—Hedley has always denied ever having had any part of the money; when I saw him the money had been parted with—I saw him before October—I thoroughly believed Wallace to be part owner of the ship.

ALFRED HENRY WILDEY (Re-examined). These are the questions prepared by the Board of Trade to be administered to all insolvents—these answers are initialled by the defendant, and dated 3rd November, 1884. (Among these the prisoner stated that he began business seen or eight years ago; that his capital on the 1st January. 1884, was about 200l.; that he had been in no partnership with any one; that his books had not been properly posted since 1882; that he had no cash in hand at the date of his petition, and no bids of exchange or promissory notes; that he believed the total amount of his unsecured liabilities to be 6,000l.; that he had mortgaged several ships; that he did not consider himself insolvent; that in 1880 and 1881 he liquidated (Mr. Sidney Smith was his trustee), and his discharge had not been granted: that he did not think a dividend had been paid.) He proposed a shilling in the pound on his bankruptcy—no trustee was appointed except to receive and distribute this composition if it passed—when naming the ships upon which he expects a surplus he says nothing about the Lady Louisa's surplus on the mortgage—the Lady Louisa is mentioned but nothing is carried out Against her—it is a second mortgage of half a share as of no value—he could take what time he liked to answer—he could not take the form away with him—the examiner puts question by question, and takes down his answers—it is read over to him, and he signs it—nothing has come in on the assets—the furniture is spoken of as being under a bill of sale—a shilling in the pound was approved by the creditors—I made a report which is on the file—the composition was refused by the Court—he applied to the Court of Appeal, which upheld the decision of the Registrar, and refused the composition—I got no assets—there are notices out for a meeting of creditors to appoint a trustee.

Cross-examined. It would be the duty of the meeting of creditors to select and nominate some person as trustee—the Board of Trade would be applied to to sanction his appointment, and ultimately he would have to be approved by the authority constituted by the Bankruptcy Act, 1883—the trustee would have to inquire into the alleged assets—if he told us wrongly about some claim alleged here, we should have to come to the Committee of Inspection to know whether they would take criminal proceedings or otherwise.—all the Bankrupt's Estate becomes invested in the trustee, and he is, therefore, the person to bring actions or launch motions for the purpose of declaring certain property—it would be his duty, if he thought fit, with Mr. Chamberlain's sanction, to claim the shares in the Lady Louisa and other barques—his creditors applied against the decision of the Registrar, supported by the debtor's affidavit. (MR. GRAIN here read from the statement of affairs as follows: "I believe we own the following ships, subject to the, deduction shown above; "these ships included the Lady Louisa, 1,375l.; the Daylight, 900l.; the total amounted to 7,805l.) The

trustee would make inquiries in all these instances—the Bankruptcy Court exercises its own discretion as to composition, irrespective of the creditors, and they thought in this case composition should not be accepted—the creditors did not agree with them.

Re-examined. The adjudication proposal to pay a shilling in the pound was stopped. (MR. BESLEY here put in the register of the Lady Louisa, which set out that she was 3,090 tons, built in London in 1865, one deck, three masts; it also gave her different owners at different dates, showing that the Merchant Banking Company held 84 shares on a bill of sale on the 14th July, 1884; that in August, 1884, J, H. Hedley secured an account current to the Company and registered a mortgage.)

JOHN RICHARD DELY . I am assistant-manager of the Merchant Banking Company, 112, Cannon Street—we were first mortgagees of the Lady Louisa on 20th May, 1881—money was advanced from time to time on the security, and on 19th July, 1884, J. Wilson was still the mortgagor and we the mortgagees—7,000l. or 8,000l. was due on this and other ships, including the Daylight and Cabana—we have given credit for the amount of sale of the Cubana to Wilson—she sold for 2,350l., the Daylight for 1,700l., and the Lady Louisa for 2,750l.—in July I sought to realise the security, and they were advertised for sale—the sale was effected on I9th July to John H. Hedley; this is a copy of the contract—he paid 300l. out of 500l. deposit on the three ships—the balance of the Daylight and Lady Louisa was paid on 30th August, 1884, and he gave a bill of sale securing the balance, and we got a mortgage from him the same day. (The bill of sale was registered at 11.45, and 25 minutes afterwards it appeared that the mortgage was registered.) There was not a second of time when Hedley could sell—are got a notice of Helley's bankruptcy in November or December—the first part of the 500l. deposit our brokers, Bulby and Ridley, brought on signing the contract—we received it on account of Hedley—the prisoner proposed to be the purchaser before 19th July through Cummings—we declined to accept him.

Cross-examined. This cheque was drawn by Cummings—the Lady Louisa was one of the three ships—I have never seen the agreement between Hedley and Wallace regarding the purchase of these three ships—we always register the mortgage and bill of sale at the same time, there is nothing unusual in it—the Merchant Banking Company has considerable transactions of this description—we lend money on ships to persons of the highest class—there was nothing out of the ordinary course in what we did with Hedley—at one time Hedley was the owner of the whole of the ship until she was sold again.

Re-examined. The effect of registering the mortgage at the same time as the bill of sale would be to prevent any mortgage being put in before yours and becoming the first—the Lady Louisa was never free from our charges—we sold her to Hedley for 2,750l., and have got the ship as our security for his unpaid bills—we sold her to Rees for about as much as Hedley owed us—we had power to sell the ship for our money—Hedley continued as owner on 13th August, 1885, for five or six minutes, subject to the mortgage—the prisoner was never the owner to my knowledge.

THOMAS SINNOTT . I am a clerk in the Richard Green Permanent Building Society, Fenchurch Street—John Sinclair and his wife had 440l. principal, and 7l. 6s. 8d. interest, up to 17th July, 1884, when it was paid on these orders by a cheque payable to Messrs. Baxter by

mistake for Burter—it is endorsed both Barter and Baxter, and dated 24th July underneath—this is a copy of the receipt for the money.

Cross-examined. The prosecutor instructed us to make it payable to Barter and Co.—he said he was going to take some shares in a ship, I don't know the exact words, and that he wanted this money to pay the gentlemen, Barter and Co., with—this indicates that Barter and Co. were endorsees of the cheque and received the money—our receipt is signed W. Barter and Co.—we did not receive it from the prisoner—I only saw him when he came with the gentleman from Messrs. Barter's.

Re-examined. Sinclair, the prisoner, and Mr. Cummings, the gentleman from Messrs Barter, came together—Sinclair said he wished his money to be paid over to Mr. Barter or to Mr. Wallace—first we had an order in favour of Wallace, and then Sinclair gave one in favour of Barter.

CHARLES LONGFONG . I am a clerk in the London Bankruptcy Court—this is the file of proceedings in the defendant's bankruptcy—I have also other proceedings against Wallace in previous years—there were bankruptcy petitions in April, 1877, in March, 1881, and February, 1883, July, 1883, and under the present Act, June, 1884, and July, 1884, and August, 1884.

Cross-examined. Four of these petitions were dismissed on payment of the money in full—six under the present act and one under the 1869 act have not been dismissed—on the bankruptcy of April, 1877, au order of discharge was obtained—there has been an order of discharge or dismissal in all but the last—after he got his order of discharge in 1877 there was a liquidation which I have not got, and now there in the present bankruptcy which is going on—all the others have been dismissed on payment of money.

Re-examined. I know nothing about the 1881 file, I have not got it.

EDWARD RUSSELL CUMMINGS . I am a shipbroker trading with two partners, Barter and Brewer, as Barter and Co.—I got the value of this cheque for 447l. endorsed Barter and Co. from the Richard Green Building Society—I know nothing about the 53l. balance, we did not get that—practically we gave Hedley credit for the 440l.—I went to the Richard Green office by myself, I think, to make inquiries, I don't think I went with Sinclair; it is difficult to say if I was acting for Hedley, we were supposed to be acting for the Merchant Banking Company, the mortgagees, to sell these three vessels for them—they employed us as brokers to sell—the payment was on account of the three vessels bought by Hadley and Wallace—I knew the prisoner first in the transaction, I have a contract showing it was a joint transaction—we were acting for the Company, Hedley and Wallace—the 440l. went to the benefit of the Company—the Company make up their own mortgages—I had nothing to do with arranging the bills of sale or the mortgages on 13th August—I have charged Hedley with 500l.—we charged a further sum of 60l. to Hedley—we had only had one account with him.

Cross-examined. We have been in trade in the City for some 30 years, and are well-known as a firm of shipbrokers—there is not the slightest pretence for saying that we have attempted to defraud anybody—I received this from Mr. Wallace: "19th July, 1884, Lady Louisa, Cubana, and Daylight. It is understood that the above be bought on a joint account by J. J. Wallace and J. H. Hedley. On settlement and

transfer J. H. Hedley to execute a bill of sale to J. J. Wallace for 3/6 2/4, subject to a mortgage, and J. J. Wallace to become jointly responsible with J. H. Hedley under the agreement with the Merchant Banking Company. The ships to be worked and sailed under the joint account. Signed, Wallace and Hedley." I received the 440l. cheque myself—the prisoner never got a penny piece out of it—it was given to us on account of the three ships, of which the Lady Louisa was one—the Merchant Banking Company are Messrs. Johnson. I should think they have a very large capital—I negociated with the Merchant Banking Company for the purchase of the Lady Louisa on the basis of this agreement after receiving the money—I was purchasing for Wallace as well as Hedley.

Re-examined. I do not think I mentioned the agreement when I saw Sinclair getting the money out; I don't know that the agreement stipulated immediate registration of 3/6 2/4—I saw Wallace between July and October, I don't recollect that he ever complained that no half share had been put in his name—I know Hedley registered alone on 13th August, the prisoner gave no explanation why he was not to go on the register for 3/6 2/4—we did not give the prisoner credit for 440l. in our books then—later on, on 11th October, we credited Wallace and debited Hedley for the sake of our books in 447l. 6s. 8d.—I knew the captain was lending money to the owners of the ship, it was common knowledge—Wallace has the equity of his 3/6 2/4 share now, I think—I should say there was no other mortgage at all, the mortgagor in possession was selling the ships at that moment.

GUILTY .— Discharged upon his own recognisances and two sureties, to come come up for judgment next sessions.


Before Mr. Recorder.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-381
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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381. ANN COURTNEY PLEADED GUILTY to endeavouring to conceal the birth of her child.— One Month without Hard Labour.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-382
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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382. THOMAS SMOKER (18) , Unlawfully taking a girl under sixteen out of the possession of her father.

MR. BROXHOLM Prosecuted.

RICHARD PHILPOTT . I am a costermonger, of 3, Clarke's Buildings, Greenwich—my daughter, Emma Philpott, was fourteen in April; she lived with me up to 3rd May—the prisoner's sister came to her, and said "I should like to go for a walk, would you mind coming with me?"—they went out together—my girl went to her grandmother's, and got her best things away—we heard no more of them—I saw the prisoner on the Sunday night—I spoke to him about her—he said he did not know anything at all about her—I went to the station—there was a report that she was dead—I saw him again on the Monday; he said he did not know anything about her—a fortnight after I saw him in the Kent Road—I said "We must have a settlement to-day; I won't let you go any further"—he said that she was over the water; had plenty to eat and drink, and was all right—I went to the station and told the inspector—he sent me to get a constable to take him—the prisoner gave the address in Canning Town—I went to the house; it was correct—I found my daughter in the

street with the prisoner's sister—I fetched her home—I never knew they were going away.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I said you could marry her after she was at home—that was to find out where she was—you told me she was in Southamptom.

EMMA PHILPOTT . I am the daughter of Richard Philpott, and I lived with my father up to 3rd May—I went out with Julia Smoker; she asked me, and my mother had given me leave—I came back—mother told me I could go out again to my grandmother's at 12.30, and came away at 2.30—the prisoner came in soon after I was there—I had my dinner and came out again—I next saw the prisoner about 3 o'clock in Park Street—he did not say anything to me—I told him I was ready to go away to where I was going with his sister—I went—the prisoner was not with me—I went to Canning Town—I took the train to Woolwich—I went to a furnished room with Julia Smoker in the evening—the prisoner came to see if his sister was all right—he stayed about half an hour; not all night—he came again on the Monday morning—he spoke to me in Canning Town—he stayed half an hour—I went to take a house in Pitt Street—I went with the prisoner; he took the house with his sister—I stayed at 14, Pitt Street—I saw him again on Tuesday—I did not see him every day after that—he came once or twice to give his sister the money to get food—he paid for the house—I stayed there with his sister—I saw my father on Friday night; that was not quite a fortnight after—I went away upon my own accord—it was more my fault—my father only said "I want you to come home"—he did not say I ought not to have left him.


18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-383
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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383. ALFRED KIRBY (38) , Indecently assaulting Florence Kirby.

MR. WARBURTON Prosecuted.



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18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-384
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384. GEORGE CATTEN (17) , Feloniously knowing and abusing Rebecca Winslade, aged 9.

MR. CLUFR Prosecuted.

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Hard Labour.

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18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-385
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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385. JOHN SIMMONS (28) , Feloniously killing and slaying Henry Willington Ellis.

MR. POLAND Prosecuted; MR. KEITH FRITH Defended.

CHARLES HAVERSON . I keep a coffee-house at 15, Tooley Street—on 2nd April, about half past 4 in the afternoon, I was going down "Duke street about seventeen yards from Mr. Titterton'n, the stationer's shop, I first noticed the prisoner close by some steps which were standing opposite Mr. Titterton's, in front of the door; an old gentleman, the deceased, was on the steps writing over the facial of the door—I saw the prisoner reel a time or two and clutch the steps; he stumbled, and the

deceased tumbled down on to the flags—Mr. Titterton can out—we lifted him up—the prisoner assisted in getting him into the shop—he had gone on two or three yards and come back—he was not sober—the deceased was bleeding; he was not able to speak—I pointed the prisoner out to a constable, who detained him.

Cross-examined. I had never seen the prisoner before—the steps were rather high, part of the steps were on the incline.

CHARLES STANHOPE . On the 2nd of April I saw the deceased on the third step of these steps—I saw the prisoner come up the road, he staggered and caught hold of the ladder to save himself from falling, and the deceased fell and cut his face—the prisoner was not sober.

CHARLES FREEMAN . I am a warehouseman, of 380, Squthwark Park Road—I was passing Duke Street about two shops from Mr. Titterton's, I saw the deceased on the steps about three parts of the way up—I did not see the prisoner coming along, but I saw him having hold of the steps with his hand—I can't say whether he fell against them accidentally or whether he shook them for the purpose, but they did shake, and directly afterwards the deceased fell down.

Cross-examined. I should not like to say whether it was an accident or not, as I am not aware about it.

JOHN YARDY (Policeman MR 16). I was called to Mr. Titterton's, and saw the deceased in the shop bleeding from his forehead, nose, and face—the prisoner was there holding him up; he appeared to be recovering from drunkenness—I asked Mr. Haverson in the prisoner's presence how it occurred, and from what he said I directed Densley to take him to the station—Haverson said that the prisoner shook the steps, causing the man to fall—the prisoner made no reply to that.

Cross-examined. The prisoner told me he was a pensioner from the Royal Navy—the Magistrate admitted him to bail.

JOHN DENSLEY (Policeman M 148). I took the prisoner to the station—I believe he was the worse for drink, and going along he said, "I am very sorry for the poor old man; I would rather treat him than hurt him"—he lunged forward a little as he walked down the High Street when he stepped off the kerb.

FRANCIS HEATHERLEY , M.R.C.S. On 2nd April I was a dresser at Guy's Hospital—Ellis was brought in there shortly after 5 o'clock—he had a small wound over the left eyebrow about an inch long, and a slight bruise on the bridge of his nose, and his wrist was sprained—he was able to speak—I attended to him and dressed his wounds—I didn't regard him as serious—after his wounds were dressed he was allowed to go—I didn't know that his ribs were injured at all.

LOUISA ELLIS . I am the widow of Henry Willington Ellis, of 52, Rockingham Street—he was a writer and grainer; he was accustomed to be upon ladders and steps; he was 69 years of age—on 2nd April he was out painting—he was brought home suffering from a fall—he had had his wounds dressed then—he became ill afterwards, and never got out of bed again—I sent him to the Newington Infirmary on the Saturday, as this happened on the Thursday, and he died there on the 12th.

CHARLES GROSE . I am medical superintendent of Newington Infirmary—on Saturday, 4th April, Ellis was brought there—he was bruised about the face; he was very ill; he was in such a low state that I could not examine him then; he died on the 12th—on the 15th I made a postmortem

examination—I found a bad fracture of the first rib on the right side; an abcess had formed round the ends of the bone; the right wrist was badly injured, and an abcess had formed in the joint; there was also chronic disease of the lung from old pleurisy—he died from the shock and exhaustion—I don't think the injury to the lungs and heart could have been discovered during life, but, if it had, it would not have made any difference.

Cross examined. I attribute the immediate cause of death to the forming of the abcess acting on his weak state in consequence of the fall—the ends of the bone were broken—nothing but an injury would have caused an abcess where it was; it could not have been occasioned by anything but a fall.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "If there had been a proper scaffolding there the accident would never have happened. The least touch would have upset the steps; they were on the incline of the hill."

GEORGE ROBINSON (Police Inspector). I examined Mr. Titterton'a shopfront where this occurred, and made this sketch of it (produced)—the slope along the shop-front is 1 in 25, and from the shop to the kerb 1 in 64.


18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-386
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceMiscellaneous > sureties

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386. THOMAS GRIFFITHS , For the manslaughter of Donald Alfred Ledbetter.

MR. CARTER Prosecuted; MR. LOWE Defended.

After being given in charge, the prisoner, in the hearing of the Jury, said he was GUILTY, upon which they returned that verdict. To enter into his own recognisance, and to find surety for 10d. to come up for judgment when called upon.

Before Mr. Reccrder.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-387
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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387. ELIZA ALARD PLEADED GUILTY to unlawfully endeavouring to conceal the birth of her child.— Judgment respited.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-388
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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388. JAMES HENDERSON (24) , Maliciously wounding Robert Shepherd, with intent to do him grievous bodily harm.

MR. WOODGATE Prosecuted.

ROBERT DAVIS (Policeman L 68). About I a.m. on the 8th April I was on duty in Upper Kennington Lane—I saw a crowd at the corner of Harleyford Road—the prisoner was on the ground with another man—Shepherd said "I have been stabbed"—another person said "I have picked up a knife"—blood was running from the prosecutor's left hand—I asked him who stabbed him—he said "The man you have hold of"—the knife was given to me—the man who gave it to me said "I saw him drop it from behind," pointing to the prisoner—the prisoner said "It could not have been me; I have got my knife in my pocket"—I took him to the station—Shepherd was taken to St. Thomas's Hospital—he did not appear for several weeks afterwards—no knife was found on the prisoner.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. There was a quarrel—I saw a man strike you—you did not ask me to take him in charge—you went across the road towards Vauxhall Station, not down Harleylord Road—you were sober but excited.

ROBERT SHEPHERD . I live at 19, Luscombe Street, Wands worth Road—I am a clerk—the prisoner is a stranger to me—I saw him a little before 1 a.m. on the 8th April—I was served in a fish shop—he was refused, and ordered out—it was closing time—he asked me why he was not served—I said there must be some reason—we wrangled, and it came to blows and a scuffle—while fighting we fell together—the prisoner got up and kicked me while on the ground—another witness protected me—when I got on the pavement a policeman came up and tried to get him away—I went down the Harleyford Road—the prisoner challenged one of the witnesses to fight—the witness said "You had better take him on, you are fittest," and we went into the road to fight—the prisoner stabbed me in my arm—I called out that I was stabbed, and the prisoner ran away—I was taken to the hospital, and stopped there five weeks.

Cross-examined. I did not follow you—I stood at the corner of Harleyford Road—I did not know you had stabbed me till I felt the blood dripping—there was a crowd.

ALFRED SAMUEL SHRIEVE . I am a stonemason, of 7, Archer Street, South Lambeth Road—about 12.30 or 12.45 a.m. on April 8th I was in Harleyford Road—I saw Shepherd and the prisoner, on the ground in a scuffle outside a fish shop—the prisoner kicked Shepherd on his eye—I said "That was not a manly action"—I struck the prisoner to protect Shepherd—a policeman ordered the prisoner to move on—he went a little way towards Harleyford Road and stood opposite me—I watched him—when Shepherd came up I told him to strike the prisoner for kicking him in the eye—the prisoner was standing on the edge of the kerb—they had another set to, and Shepherd said "I am stabbed"—the, prisoner could hear, and he made off—I followed him, and threw him—Davis came up and took him in custody.

Cross-examined. I am not aware that I struck you before the policeman—you went towards Harleyford Road.

GEORGE CROUCHER . I am a carman, of Eden Court—I was in Harleyford Road on 8th April, just after midnight, on an omnibus—I saw a disturbance on the kerbstone—I heard a man say, "He has got a knife," loud enough for the prisoner to hear—he walked backwards towards the wheel of the omnibus, dropped something behind him, turned round, and ran away—I picked up this knife, took it across the road, and gave it to a policeman—it was open.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. The row was in the Vauxhall end of the Harleyford Road—parties were near you when you dropped the knife.

ALFRED HALLETT . I am a wood-seller, of 8, Ward Street, Princes Road, Lambeth—I heard the prisoner say, "Come on, I am ready for you"—I saw the prisoner and Shepherd get up a couple of fights—the prisoner pulled the knife out from his sleeve, stabbed Shepherd, and ran away, and others ran after him—I heard Shepherd complain of being stabbed—I fetched a policeman.

Cross-examined. I did not say at the police-station that I saw no knife—you were sober.

CHARLES JAMES GREEN . I am house surgeon at St. Thomas's Hospital—Shepherd was brought in on 8th April with, a clean-cut wound 2 1/2 inches long on his left hand, dividing the skin and muscle, another on his left side dividing the skin and muscle, and a bruise on his right eye

—the wounds were not dangerous—this knife would inflict them used with some force—he was under my care till 12th May.

Prisoner's Defence. The witnesses say I was sober; one says I went towards Vauxhall, and another to Harleyford Road; I do not know what their object was of following me.


18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-389
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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389. WILLIAM MILLEN , Unlawfully assaulting John Kavanah, land causing him actual bodily harm.

MESSRS. GILL and GOODRICH Prosecuted; MR. BURNIE Defended.

JAMES SOMERS BROCK . I live at Ivy House, Streatham—on 4th April, about 2 p.m., I was passing the Greyhound on the farther side of the road—I saw the prisoner knock a man down; he fell as if he had been shot on the back of his head—I did not see him make any defence—I saw blood fly out of his ears—I said aloud, "That man is done for"—the prisoner said, "And a b—good job too," and put on his coat and went away—some women came and picked the man up.

Cross-examined. I was on the opposite side of the road to you—then was nothing to prevent my seeing what occurred.

ELIZABETH BETTS . I am the wife of Thomas Betts, of the Greyhound Lane, Streatham—I am the prisoner's sister—on Saturday, 4th April, about 2 p.m., I was standing at my door, which is next to the Greyhound—I saw my brother come out of the public-house with a pint of beer in his hand—he spoke to a friend—Kavanah, who is since dead, came out of the side door and said, "Oh, you tiger"—my brother put the pot on the window-sill and pushed him; I saw Kavanah fall—my brother had his coat off; he went home—I picked Kavanah up with my brother, and sat him on the kerb—he got up, walked into my shop, and sat on a bushel basket about an hour—he reeled across the road—I saw no more of him.

Cross-examined. Kavanah was not steady on his legs; he fell from the kerb on to the road.

MARGARET KAVANAH . I live with my father at Victoria Square, Streatham—on Saturday, 4th April, my father was brought home by the prisoner's brother and my brother—I saw him on the Sunday; he complained of his head all day; he was only conscious at intervals—a doctor saw him on Tuesday night, and on Wednesday morning Dr. Coleman saw him—on Thursday he was worse, and on Saturday he died.

JOHN EDWARD PAGE . I live at 151, Belleville Road, Streatham—I am employed at the Greyhound—I was there about 2 o'clock on 4th April—I saw Kavanah and the prisoner about 20 feet apart—Kavanah mumbled something I could not understand—the prisoner pulled off his coat and struck Kavanah, who fell on the kerb on the back of his head—the prisoner returned to the corner—I heard somebody say, "He has done for him," and the prisoner said, "A good job too."

Cross-examined. I had been attending to the omnibus which had just come away—there was a crowd—I noticed no one between me and the prisoner.

ALFRED HILL (Policeman W 30). On 10th April I went to Victoria Square between 6 and 7 p.m.—I found Kavanah lying on a bed unconscious—from information I received I arrested the prisoner at 10 o'clock the same night—I charged him with maliciously assaulting John Kavanah on 4th April—I cautioned him—he said, "He put his hands to me; I

did not strike him, I only pushed him"—I charged him formally at the station—he said nothing.

CHARLES ALFRED COLEMAN . I am a Bachelor of Medicine, of Belle Vue, Streatham Common—on the Wednesday morning I was called in and examined Kavanah—I found a bruise on the back of his head—he was conscious at times, and answered questions very well; at other times he was delirious—he became worse, and died on the Saturday morning—the symptoms were consistent with a severe fall—I made a post-mortem examination—I found an abrasion below the right eye; that might be from a blow, but not a severe one—fracture of the skull was the cause of death—the organs were healthy.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I had no animosity against the man. I did not wish to do him any injury. I had been on good terms with him, and when I pushed him he fell to the ground."

Witness for the Defence.

WILLIAM RUSSELL . I am a fishmonger, of 3, Greyhound Lane. Streatham—I was on my doorstep at about 2.15 on 4th April—I saw Kavanah and the prisoner; one was standing on the kerb—both had had drink—the prisoner made a shove at Kavanah, who fell on the kerb, which lies deep—the shove seemed more to save the falling man than a blow.

Cross-examined. I saw the prisoner at the window in his shirt sleeves drinking out of a pint pot—I saw him walk to the kerb—after that he gave Kavanah a shove.

GUILTY of assault with no intent to injure. One Day's Imprisonment.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-390
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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390. ALFRED GILL (40) , Embezzling 157l. 5s. 1d., 164l. 13s., and 140l. 2s. 3d. received by him on account of the South London Tramways Company, his masters.

MR. MEAD Prosecuted.

JOHN BALL BALL . I am accountant and one of the auditors for the South London Tramways Company—it was the prisoner's duty to enter upon the sheets (produced) supplied by the bank the receipts of the day, and to pay the moneys into the bank—he would tear off the counterfoil—the books were submitted to me for audit—pur stamp is oval—this one is without a guard—looking at the sheets for 8th, 9th, and 10th October, and at the banking accounts, the three amounts of 157l. 5s. 1d., 164l. 13s., and 140l. 2s. 3d. for those days were never paid into the bank.

SAMUEL CLAY . I am caretaker and inquiry clerk of the South London Tramways Company—the prisoner was head cashier—the sheets produced are his writing—I have looked at the counterfoils in the books.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. The signature is yours—I have seen you sign your name many times—in many cases the figures are not yours—I used to come to you with messages throughout the day—I recollect your asking for the key of the safe—I was not present when it came, nor when the safe was opened—I saw you on Monday, 13th October, about 1145 p.m.—I made a memorandum on the wall of my room at the time—you wanted to go into your room, and I gave you the key—-you were always working late—you were there on Sundays—everything in the office was referred to you—reports were made to the traffic office—you generally had to see to them.

Re-examined. The prisoner stopped about five minutes on the 13th—I next saw him in custody—I have no doubt as to his signature.

DAVID CRAM . I am manager of the West London Commercial Bank, Limited, of the Vauxhall branch—we are bankers for the South London Tramways Company—the prisoner was their cashier—he paid in almost daily—there is no entry on 8th October of 157l. 5s. 1d., on the 9th of 164l. 13s., nor on the 10th of 140l. 2s. 3d., on 9th October 193l. 15s. 7d. was paid in—on 11th October 191l. 19s. 1d.—this is our stamp—nothing was paid in on the 10th—on the 11th there is 190l. 19s. 1d.—the books produced are given to the prisoner stamped—the stamp in this book containing the entries of 8th, 9th, and 10th October is not our stamp; it is one we formerly used.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. The stamp has not the name of our bank on it—you never gave us any trouble.

Re-examined. This is the new stamp now in use (produced)—it has not the name of the bank upon it.

EDWARD HENRY YOUNG . After the prisoner left in October I was employed in this investigation, and searched his desk—I found this stamp produced in a drawer.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I said before the Magistrate that I found the stamp of the West London Commercial Bank—I see it is not on this—I also found a few shillings and a pad used for stamping—the drawer was opened by one of Mr. Jacques's keys; we tried several keys—it did not look as if it had been forced—that happened on Wednesday, 15th October—one of the clerks was present—I was not asked the date before the Magistrate—I do not think I saw you at Vauxhall as late as 9th October.

WALTER VAG (Detective W). I had a warrant for the prisoner's apprehension—I saw him in the Cowley Road, North Brixton, on 7th April, attired as a olergyman—I addressed him as Mr. Gill, shook hands with him—I was not certain it was he—I said "Mr. Gill, I hold a warrant against you for stealing 168l. 15s. 5d. and other moneys from the Vauxhall Tramways Company"—he said "I thought it was all dropped, as the money has been paid by the Guarantee Society; I could have destroyed all documents if I had chosen; I left them; what is the date of the warrant?"

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You are not dressed now as you were that day—you bad a broad-brimmed soft-felt hat on and a round collar—you said you had spoken to several officers of the City and the Metropolitan politan on your get up, and Sergeant Cowan said he should have spoken to me only he saw that I had a clergyman with me.

JOHN BALL BALL (Re-examined by the Prisoner). I swore the information—I cannot remember the wording—I have a doubt that the money was paid into the bank—some part of it may have been to make up for previous money abstracted—about 40l. was found in the safe, not 340l.—I cannot tell you the exact amount—every line was checked by the yard books day by day throughout the half year—my clerks did not report any mistake of importance—the amounts you had to deal with were very large—the Guarantee Society paid 500l.—the prosecutors lost about 140l.—I do not think if you had the documents you could materially reduce that amount—the cash is sometimes short in amount of the tickets, but not daily, nor so much as 10s.

The prisoner in his defence mid that he did not abscond; that nothing was missing from the office; that any discrepancy could have been discovered.

if they had examined the past-booh; that he was worried and flustered till he did not know what he was doing; that the Guarantee Society had instituted inquiries and disputed the prosecutor's claim, and six months' afterwards paid it, and three days after that he was arrested at the house where he had lived since November last, and only a mile from Vauxhall; and that he had been in several situations since he was 13 years of age, and had stayed six years in most of them.

GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury on account of his previous good character, and his overwork and underpay. Five Years' Penal Servitude.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-391
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

391. PHILIP RENBY (17) , Uulawfully uttering counterfeit coin.


SARAH WHEATLEY . I assist in a confectioner's shop, at 27, Old Town, Clapham—on the evening of 17th April the prisoner came in and asked for two ounces of sugared almonds—the price was a penny, and he tendered half-a-crown—I said "It is a bad half-crown"—he said "It is not"—I said "It is," and asked where he got it—he said from his employer on Saturday night—I said I should send for a constable—I asked him who his employer was, and he said "I shall not tell you; I shall tell the constable"—the constable arrived, and I gave him this half-crown (produced).

ALFRED BRAZIER (Policeman W 303). I took the prisoner—when I got to the shop, Miss Wheatley offered me the half-crown, and said "This man offered me half-a-crown, and it is bad"—I said to the prisoner "What do you know of this half-crown?"—he said "I got it in my week's wages from my employer last Saturday evening"—I said "Where do you work?"—he said "I live and work in Holland Street; I am well-known in this neighbourhood"—I said "There is no such street near there"—he said it was the first turning round the corner—there is such a street about a mile and a half from where he was, but not in Lambeth Parish—I asked him what he was, and he said "I am a blacksmith"—I said "What is your employer's name?"—he said "I shall not tell you"—I said "What is your name?"—he said "I will tell you when you get me to the station"—on our way he said "I have been out of work six weeks; I have just come home from sea"—in answer to the inspector at the station he gave his name as Philip Renby, Southwark Bridge Road Fire Station, which I found to be correct—I searched him in the shop, but found nothing on him.

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . I am Inspector of Coins to Her Majesty's Mint—this half-crown is bad.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I have nothing to say; I call no witnesses."

GUILTY. *—Recommended to mercy by the Jury on the ground that he might he the dupe of somebody else. Twelve Months' Hard Labour.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-392
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

392. JAMES HOLT (44) and GEORGE SMITH (49) , Feloniously having in their possession counterfeit coin, with intent to utter the same, to which SMITH PLEADED GUILTY .


ANNIE SHERMAN . On 8th May, about noon, I was serving at the

Flying Horse, Blackman Street, Borough, when Holt came in and asked for twopennyworth of whisky—he tendered in payment a bad half-sovereign—this is it to the best of my recollection (produced)—I showed it to a customer and he bent it, and I bent it a little more—I went to the prisoner and said "You have given me a bad half-sovereign"—he said he had taken it in change for a 5l. note—he then gave me a good half-sovereign, and I gave him the change for it and gave him the bad one back—I spoke to Mr. Pine, the landlord, and he followed him.

JOSEPH STANTON . I am a printer and publisher of Great Dover Street—I went with Mr. Pine to the Flying Horse, where the last witness pointed out Holt—I saw him leave the house, and as he went he turned his face towards where I was standing to look up at the sky—Mr. Pine and I followed him—he went along Blackman Street to the Borough Road, where we saw him first pass Smith, and then afterwards Smith passed him, and they passed one another several times—they evidently knew each other and at last joined each other—there was a heavy shower of rain, and they both went into the Bridge House Hotel—I remained at the door and Mr. Pine fetched a constable—Serjeant Martin came up and went in with us—there were several others in the compartment—the prisoners were standing near the bar talking—Mr. Pine and I went up close to the bar and Pine made a motion to Martin—they finished what they were having and tried to leave, when Martin laid hold of Holt and I laid hold of Smith—after we secured Smith at the other door I crossed over to Holt and he asked what he was arrested for—Martin said he was arrested for attempting to utter a bad half-sovereign at the Flying Horse—he said "If that is what you want I can give you that," and he drew his pocket-book out and gave the half-sovereign up to Martin with some other coins—I crossed over to Smith and saw him place a half-crown in another man's pocket who is here to-day—it dropped upon the floor, and the potman drew our attention to it, and Martin asked the potman and the man whose pocket it had dropped into to take care of it—I did not notice Holt much—I was holding Smith, who was trying very hard to get away—they were both taken to the station.

Cross-examined by Holt. I gave evidence twice before the Police Magistrate at Southward—I did not mention about your passing Smith in the Borough Road because I merely answered the questions the solicitor asked me—I should say the public-house you came out of is about 300 to 400 yards from where you joined Smith.

GEORGE MARTIN (Police Sergeant M). I went to the Bridge House Hotel, Borough Road, by Mr. Pine's request, in plain clothes—I found the prisoners drinking together and talking, and when we went in Pine called for drinks—Pine made an observation and left the house immediately—he passed out of the side door—the prisoners commenced to move as they drank up their ale—I seized hold of both of them and told them I believed they had some bad money in their possession, that I was a police officer and should take them into custody, and at the same time called for help—Cant came to my assistance, and the potman, Harry Bostock, and Stanton—a violent struggle took place between us and the prisoners against a seat near the window—I was thrown backwards on to the seat—eventually we secured them—I told Holt "I shall search you; I want that half-sovereign which you attempted to utter at that other

public-house"—he then produced from his pocket-book this bad half-sovereign, a good sovereign, and 9s. 6d. in silver and 3d. in bronze—the silver coins consisted of two half-crowns, one florin, two shillings, and a sixpence—I afterwards found a sixpence in his waistcoat pocket—he said "If that is what you want, here it is," and he handed me the bad half-sovereign—we held him some considerable time—other officers came and they were both taken to the police-station—the half-sovereign was shown to Annie Sherman at the police-station by the inspector, in the prisoners' presence—Holt said "Did not I put the half-sovereign in my pocket-book? I put it in my book and I handed it to him (referring to me) and all the money I had; I did not know it was bad; I acknowledge it was the same"—I wrote down what he said at the time—as I was further searching him he said "Don't get ringing the changes," or something to that effect—I told him if he had any doubt they would be changed he could mark all the coins in his possession—I marked the bad half-sovereign at the station—it is the same that was shown to Sherman—Sully brought to the station these 18 counterfeit half-crowns, and he said he picked them up in the public-house, in the same oar we were in, underneath the seat (produced)—the officer that came to my assistance was Arthur Cox.

Cross-examined by Holt. I got you by the neck—I had hold of you by one hand and the other man by the other—as soon as I got sufficient assistance I held one of your hands and your neck; I held you by the collar—one hand was at liberty, so that you might have thrown the coin away—in struggling with you I fell back on to the seat—you were in the act of leaving by one door, and Smith attempted to escape out of the second door.

ARTHUR COX (Detective M). I went to the Bridge House Hotel, and saw the two prisoners detained by Pine and Sergeant Martin—I took Smith—at the station I told him to take his coat off—he said, "Do not get putting anything into my pocket"—he took it off—I searched his coat first, and afterwards his trousers and waistcoat—in one of his waistcoat pockets I found three bad half-crowns wrapped up separately in a small bit of newspaper, which got lost or mislaid—in the coat pocket I found a bottle of machine oil and 9s. worth of postage-stamps; 5s. it silver in the trousers pocket (a half-crown, two shillings, and a sixpence) and nine pence, all good money—Bostock handed me this half-crown (produced)—he said he picked it up in the bar of the Bridge House—the other witness handed me a counterfeit half-sovereign which he laid he picked up in the bar, and I marked it.

HENRY BOSTOCK . I am potman at the Bridge House Hotel—I saw the prisoners taken—I was on the steps inside cleaning the windows—Martin called upon me to assist him—I laid hold of Smith, and he struggled a little—alter getting the assistance of Henry Cant he attempted to place a half-crown in Cant's pocket, and it fell through the lining on to my boot—I picked it up, and found it to be a bad half-crown—I took it to the station and gave it to the police.

Cross-examined by Holt. Martin told me to secure Smith—Smith and I were against the barrel in the bar which is used as a table to keep pots on—I cannot say whether he struggled with the officer—I had my attention on Smith.

HENRY CANT . I am an omnibus driver, of 14, Ann's Place, Lant Street, and was in the Bridge House Hotel on 6th May when the

prisoners were there—Martin called on me to assist him, and Smith struggled to get away—I laid hold of him, and I said to Martin, "He is putting something into my pocket"—Martin said, "Let it stop there"—it dropped through, and Bostock picked it up.

JOHN JAMES SULLY . I am a coal porter, of 32, Little Surrey Street—I saw the prisoners taken at the Bridge House Hotel—after they were taken away I offered to pick up some of the coins—there were 18 half-crowns in four or five packets—I chucked the wrappers away.

Cross-examined by Holt. I saw the detective take hold of you by the two hands—I saw you both in the corner when the detective had hold of you.

GEORGE CHAPMAN . I am manager at the Bridge House Hotel, and saw the prisoners taken—alter they were taken away I saw a stranger to me pick up a half sovereign in the same compartment, which he gave to me—I found it was bad, took it to the station, and gave it to Cox.

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . The bent half-sovereign which was tried and the one picked up in the compartment are bad and of the same mould—the 18 half-crowns picked up under the seat are all bad—the three half-crowns taken from Smith's pocket referred to by Cox are all bad, and the solitary one picked up by Bostock is from the same mould as some of those found under the seat.

Holt in his defence denied knowing that the coins were counterfeit.

GUILTY . The indictment further charged them with having been before contided of like offences, to which they PLEADED GUILTY>.— Five Years' Penal Servitude each.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-393
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

393. WILLIAM LONGMAN (18) and WILLIAM HARDY (18) , Unlawfully having counterfeit coin in their possession, with intent to utter it.

MESSRS. POLAND and GOODRICH Prosecuted; MR. KEITH FRITH appeared for

Longman, and MR. CLUER far Hardy.

ROSE WESTON . My husband keeps the Yorkshire Grey, Great Suffolk Street—on 24th April the prisoners came in together, and Longman asked me for a pot of beer, for which he tendered a shilling (produced), and I gave him the change—I put the shilling on the side of the till by itself, and afterwards gave it to my husband.

Cross-examined by MR. FRITH. I did not see Longman there the next day—I do not remember his being in the bar when a man came in and solicited alms, and a disturbance taking place—I have seen Hardy there, but not Longman, since.

EDWARD WESTON . I am landlord of the Yorkshire Grey—on 24th April my wife called my attention to this shilling—I tried it, marked it, and put it in my pocket and gave it to Harvey the detective—I did not see the prisoners again until the 28th, when they came in together—they went into the bagatelle room—I looked through the window and saw Longman passing Hardy some money over the bagatelle board—I then sent for Harvey and Pickles—on Saturday evening, the 25th, the prisoners rushed into my bagatelle room and asked for the door to be closed—I made a mistake in saying that I did not see them till the 28th—a fortnight before the 24th I had seen Longman and told him that if he ever passed any more bad money on me I would prosecute him—that was in consequence of what I had been told.

Cross-examined by MR. FRITH. We did not see Longman on Sunday the 26th—I do not remember his being in the bar and a stranger coming in to solicit assistance, and an upset in consequence of Longman refusing him—I never said if such a disturbance occurred again I would turn him out—on the 25th he rushed into the room and asked for the door to be closed, and I told him I would not have it closed and I went back to the bar—I had no other coins in my pocket when I put in the shilling—I gave it to Harvey—Longman did not give any reason why he wanted the door closed—he had been a customer of mine on and off for some time—I do not know where he lives.

Cross-examined by MR. CLUER. Hardy had never passed bad money on me—I could hardly see the money passed in the bagatelle room, but I heard it rattle as it went into Hardy's hand.

GEORGE HARVEY (Police Sergeant M). Mr. Weston spoke to me on 28th April, and at 3 o'clock p.m. I went to the tap-room and saw the prisoners sitting near the billiard table or bagatelle table—I said to Hardy "Come here, I want you," and he came out into the middle of the room—I said "I am a police-officer, and (shall have to search you"—he said "You will have to take me to the station"—I said "I shall search you here," and caught hold of him—Sergeant Pickles and a uniform man followed me in—he struggled to get away, and I put him on his back to take off his coat—I found seven shillings in his pocket wrapped up in this paper (produced)—the landlord said "I shall charge him with uttering a bad shilling"—I took Hardy to the station and searched him and found another bad shilling amongst some good money—namely, 14s. 6d. in silver, consisting of five two-shilling pieces, one half-crown, a shilling and two sixpences, and 6 1/2 d. in bronze.

Cross-examined by MR. CLUER. Hardy had his arm in splints then, as now—the struggle was not much—I only thought he wanted to put his hand in his pocket—he went quietly to the station alter I found the money.

THOMAS PICKELS (Police Sergeant). I was with Harvey—I told Longman I should search him—he said "All right, Mr. Pickels, you can search me; I will turn out my pockets, I have nothing about me," and then he turned out 13s. 6d. in good money, all silver—the landlord then charged them both with uttering—Longman said "You ought not to do this to me, Teddy"—I took him to the station.

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . These shillings are all bad and are from four different moulds—these two shillings are also bad, and from different moulds.

The prisoners before the Magistrate stated that they knew nothing about it. HARDY received a good character.


18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-394
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

394. MARGARET UNDERWOOD (28) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. POLAND and GOODRICH Prosecuted; MR. RIBTON Defended.

MARTHA WHITE . I am the wife of Frederick White, a dairyman, of 234, Clapham Road—on Friday, 10th April, the prisoner came in and I served her; I forget what with, but it came to about 3 1/2 d.—she tendered a shilling; I put it in the till, and gave her the change—I afterwards gave it to Walter West, with four other shillings, to pay to Mrs. Dibble; the boy returned and showed me a bad shilling—I was not able to say

whether any other customer had been in that day—on 13th April the prisoner came again for a glass of milk and two eggs, which came to 3 1/2 d.—she tendered a shilling—I put it on the butter-slab because I recognised her, and gave her the change—I afterwards gave it to my husband, and it was kept by itself till we gave it to the police sergeant——on the 15th the prisoner came again for some butter, eggs and milk, which came to 5 1/2 d., and tendered a shilling—I showed it to my husband, and gave her a sixpence and a halfpenny—a constable was sent for, and she was charged—my little girl also took another bad coin on the 18th—the one I took on the 10th was one of these four (produced), but I can't say which; the one I took on the loth I kept in my hand.

Cross-examined. There were three other shillings in the till on the 10th—it happens sometimes that we have bad shillings in the till, but not very olten.

By MR. GOODRICH. When I found a bad shilling in the till on April 8th I had some conversation with my daughter about it; there were other shillings there—it is bent; it is not one of these; it was put in the cash-box, not with any other money, and kept there till it was given to the police.

EDITH WHITE . I am 10 years old, and daughter of the last witness—on 8th April I served the prisoner with four eggs, price 4d.—she gave me a shilling; I gave her the change, and put it in the till—I do not know whether there were any other shillings there; my mother found it there.

WALTER WEST . On 10th April Mrs. White gave me five shillings to take to Mr. Dibble; I did so, and he returned me one of them; I took it back and gave it to Mrs. White.

FREDERICK WHITE . I am a dairyman, of 234, Clapham Road—on 15th April the prisoner came into my shop; my wife made a communication to me, and I saw the prisoner tender a shilling in payment, which my wife handed to me and gave her the change—I found it was bad, and said to the prisoner, "What is the meaning of this? what have you been doing, going on like this?" and at the same time I put the other shillings with it—I had three of them in my pocket already, and I put them all together—she said, "If it is a bad one, I must have taken it at Mrs. Cranch's round the corner; if you will let me go, I will pay the difference"—Mr. Cranch is a butcher—I showed her the other three shillings—a constable came in at that moment—my wife had given me a bad shilling on 8th April, and another on the 10th, and another on the 13th, and I kept them all three in my pocket, and gave them to the constable when he took the charge—I saw a man outside the shop looking in at the window while I was looking for the constable, and directly he saw me he sneaked away—one of the coins was rather bent; I tested it—I can't say which it is, but I believe it is the one the boy brought back, because I tried it when he brought it back.

Cross-examined. It was put in the till with the other money—she said, "Is it a bad one? if it is, I took it from Mr. Cranch."

GEORGE OSBORNE (Police Sergeant A). Mr. White gave the prisoner into my custody for passing a bad shilling, and said that she had passed three others previously—he gave me this shilling produced—the prisoner said, "If that shilling is bad, I will pay you the difference; I must have taken it"—she did not say where—I saw a movement in her

mouth and caught hold of her, and took 1s. 6d. good money from her mouth, and a halfpenny from her hand—when we got to the station I said, "What is your name?"—she said, "I will not give my name;" she afterwards said, "It is Margaret Underwood, but I will not give any address."

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . These coins are bad, and from four different moulds.


18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-395
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

395. JOHN GODFREY (24) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. GOODRICH Prosecuted.

EMILY HADDOCK , I am the wife of Alfred Haddock, a tobacconist, of 262, St. James's Road, Old Kent Road—on the 1st May, about 2.45, the prisoner came in for half an ounce of best shag, twopence—he tendered a shilling—I put it in the trier, and found it was bad—he could not see me trying it, but I saw him glance sideways, looking suspiciously at me—I held it in my hand, and came to the flap of the counter in front of him, and paid "I cannot take this"—he put out his hand and said "I did not know it was a bad one"—I had not said it was bad—I said "You must wait till my husband comes"—I called my husband down stairs, and directly he entered the shop the prisoner said "I did not know it was a bad one, sir; I am sure I didn't know; if you will let me go I will come in for another halt-ounce to-night"—I said "How did you know it was a bad one, as I never told you it was bad?"—he said "I saw you try it and break it"—this is it.

ROBERT ALBERT HADDOCK . My wife called me, and on coming into the shop the prisoner said "I did not know it was bad; if you will only let me go I will come in to-night and have another half-ounce"—I said "Where do you live?"—he said "Three doors from the Nelson, Old Kent Road"—I said "You cannot live there, those are gentlemen's houses"—he said he lived at a turning at the back of the Nelson—I had sent for a constable—he came in then, and he asked the prisoner where he lived—he said "Francis Place, Francis Street, Blackfriars"—I said "What did you tell me you lived down the turning at the back of the Nelson for?"—he said "I told you I did live down there"—the constable asked him the name of the turning—he said he did not know—I gave him in custody.

WILLIAM BENNING (Policeman P 417). I was called to this house, and found the prisoner, detained by Mr. Haddock, who charged him with uttering this bad shilling—I said "Where do you live?"—he said "2l. Francis Place, Francis Street"—I said "It appears you have been giving several different addresses" (Mr. Haddock informed me that he had said he lived near the Nelson)—I said "Whereabouts near the Nelson?"—he said "At the back of the Nelson"—I said "What it the name of the turning?"—he said he did not know—I said "It is rather strange you having lived there that you don't know the name of the turning; what is your proper address? how did you come by this bad shilling?"—he said his wife gave it to him in the morning when he started from home, a shilling and three halfpence; "I have spent the three halfpence for half a pint of ale, and I came here to get a half-ounce of tobacco, and did not know the shilling was bad"—I took him to the station.

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . This is a very bad shilling.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I must have taken the shilling when Helling tilings in the street."

The prisoner in his defence denied knowledge that the coin was bad.

GUILTY .— Two Years' Hard Labour.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-396
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

396. JAMES SMITH (32) PLEADED GUILTY to feloniously having counterfeit coin in his possession, with intent to utter it, alter a conviction at Hastings of a like offence in October, 1875.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-397
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour; No Punishment > sentence respited

Related Material

397. The said JAMES SMITH was again indicted, with WILLIAM BROWN (61) , for unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. GOODRICH Prosecuted.

SARAH THORN . My husband keeps the Spread Eagle, Richmond—at 6.30 on 30th April Brown came in for twopennyworth of whisky, tendering a bad shilling—I said, "This is light; it looks bad; I can't take it"—I handed it back—he put it in his pocket and gave me a good one, and left the house in two or three minutes—I noticed him going up the hill—about a quarter of an hour afterwards he came, looked in at the glass door three times, pushing it open—the shilling he tendered resembled this; it felt light and greasy.

Cross-examined by Brown. I could not swear it was one of these before me—you did not come in the house afterwards, you only looked in—you came in alone—the policeman came and asked if I could recognise you: he gave me no description—I came to the station; you were at the end of the row—I did not notice the other half-dozen people's faces; I knew you from the moment I saw you.

Cross-examined by Smith. I never saw you till I saw you at the Court.

Re-examined. I took no notice of the other men among whom Brown was placed, for he was placed nearest the door I went in at; I knew him directly.

ALICE BANNISTER . I am barmaid and housekeeper at the Red Cow, Richmond—on 30th April I was serving behind the bar—at about 4 or 4.30 Brown came in for a small lemon with a little ale in it; it came to 2 1/2 d.—he tendered a bad shilling—I placed it under the pull of the engine and broke it in half very easily—I gave it him back; he gave me a good one, and left—I identified Brown at the station the next week—I have not the slightest doubt about him.

Cross-examined by Brown. I gave the pieces to you back that you might take them to where you got it and get it changed—a dozen people in the bar saw me break it—a policeman came to know if any bad money had been passed, and then said that I should be wanted to identify the person if I could; he did not describe you to me—I take particular notice of any one who gives me bad money—I picked you out from seven or eight men after a week's absence; they were all strangers to me.

JAMES WHITFIELD . I live at 2. Red Lion Street, Richmond, and am a waterman's apprentice—about a quarter to 7 p.m. on 30th April I was in the Royal Arms, Hill Street, Richmond—something was said to me—I went outside and Brown was pointed out to me going up Hill Street—I watched him for about 150 yards—he then came down the hill; he looked in at the Spread Eagle—Mrs. Thorne, who was at the door, made a communication to me, in consequence of which I followed him again, and informed the constable—I saw Brown walk down Hill Street towards

the town—I followed him to Mr. Taylor's coffee house; I went and sat in the next box to him; he had tea and bread-and-butter to the amount of 3 1/2 d.; he came out and staggered about as if a little intoxicated—I was a stranger to him; he might have observed me, I had no coat on—about 10 minutes after he came out of the coffee shop I saw him on the platform with Smith—I communicated to Henson.

Cross-examined by Brown. I saw you sitting together on the platform—I did not see you walk up to Smith; I think you must have joined him while I was speaking to Henson.

CHARLES HENSON (Policeman). I was at Richmond, and received from Alwright a description of two men, in consequence of which I kept observation in the Kew Road—about 7 o'clock I saw Smith standing by the railway station till about a quarter to 8 o'clock, when Brown came down the Kew Road to the station, where he joined Smith; they spoke to each other, and walked into the station together—Whittield made a communication to me—I went into the station; the two prisoners were sitting on a seat side by side in conversation on the platform—I went up to them and said, "I want you to go to the police-station with me"—Smith arose from the seat and put his hands in his pocket as if feeling for something—a policeman came on to the platform—Leach took Smith in custody in consequence of what I said—I took Brown to the station, searched him, and found two shillings, and 4d. bronze, and a third-class ticket from Richmond to Kingston numbered 1399.

Cross-examined by Brown. The money I found on you was all good—I did not see you with Smith previous to going to the station.

ALFRED LEACH (Detective Sergeant). I was at Richmond Station about a quarter to 8 on this night in plain clothes—I saw Henson with the two prisoners—in consequence of what he said I took Smith—when I took him out of the station he became very violent, put his right hand into his right trousers pocket, and brought out a black bag—I cried to Whitfield, "Seize his hand"—All Wright came up, and I directed him to take the contents before we moved any farther—All Wright took the bag, and found it contained these nine counterfeit shillings and two counterfeit florins—I searched Smith at the station, and found on him in good money 16 sixpences, a half-crown, a florin, a shilling, and 1s. 6d. in bronze, and some black sticky substance and a bag similar to the one I found the coin in; part of the money was in that and part in his pocket—the good money he kept in his left pocket and the bad in his right—I charged the two prisoners—Brown said, "I don't know this man, I never saw him in my life"—Smith made no reply—Brown gave his address as 8, Stamford Street, Blackfriars Road—Smith said he had no fixed home.

FRAKCIS ALLWRIGHT (Policeman V 389). On 30th April, about 6 o'clock, I received information, in consequence of which I went up George Street, Richmond, as far as the Greyhound public-house, where I saw Brown standing on the opposite side of the road—he was joined after a few minutes by Smith—after standing a minute they went down Brewer's Lane to Greenside; I lost sight of them—apparently they were in conversation—I communicated with Henson—the Greyhound is about a minute's walk from the Spread Eagle, and seven or eight minutes' walk from the Red Cow—I went to the bottom of King Street, where I saw them going up King Street together—I saw them again standing in Red Lion Street about 6.30—I followed Smith—he remained at the corner of

the street—Brown walked up the hill very sharp—I followed Smith to the railway-station, and then turned back and saw Whitfield, and communicated with him—later on I went to the station and saw Smith surrounded by a crowd, and saw him struggling with Leach, who said, "Get it away from him," referring to the bag in Smith's hand—I caught hold of his hand—he attempted to kick me with his knee in my stomach—he was struggling and very violent the whole time—when I got the bag away I found nine counterfeit shillings and two florins in it, also some papers which were torn in the struggle—I also found a shilling and a third-class single ticket from Richmond, No. 1398, in his overcoat pocket—where they separated at the bottom of Hill Street at 6.30 it was only 50 or 60 yards from the Spread Eagle.

Cross-examined by Brown. I followed you for almost an hour and a half—I lost sight of you several times—you pretended to be intoxicated—I wanted to be sure before I took you in custody—I only saw you talking to Smith; you were standing almost side by side—I saw your face on several occasions previous to that at the railway-station—I did not see you go into any public-house.

Cross-examined by Smith. I first saw you opposite the Greyhound—when you joined Brown you stood with your hand in your right-hand trousers pocket—I saw you enter no public-house.

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . These nine shillings are all bad and from two different moulds; these two florins are bad and from different moulds—this black stuff is rubbed on the coins before they are carried to give a soft tone to them and the greasy feel, then paper is wrapped round them to prevent the black stuff rubbing off until it is wanted to pass the coin.

Brown in his defence stated that the barmaids had made a mistake is their identification, that he knew nothing of Smith, and that nothing had been found on him or produced against him. Smith in his defence denied having uttered any of the coins.

GUILTY . BROWN*— Two Years' Hard Labour. SMITH— Judgment respited.

18th May 1885
Reference Numbert18850518-398
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour; Imprisonment > hard labour

Related Material

398. WILLIAM HENRY DIXON (19) and CLARA LONGMAN (18) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.


ROBERT BUTLER . I am barman at the French Horn, Lambeth Walk—about 9 p.m. on 20th April the prisoners came in—Dixon called for drinks and tendered a bad half-crown—the other man at the bar best it in the gauger and gave it him back—I said "It is a bad one"—he said he did not know where he got it from and showed it to one or two in the bar, and put it in his pocket—he then tendered a good florin—I have known him from quite a boy and am quite certain he the man.

GEORGE JAMES REED . I am manager of the Cock and Bottle, Lambeth Walk—at 10 o'clock on 20th April Longman came in with another man, who called for some beer—the man put down a half-crown, which I saw was bad—I gave him 2s. 4d. change and put the half-crown in my pocket by itself—when they left I went to put on my hat and coat to follow them, but when I got out I found they had gone—I saw the three in Upper Kennington Lane, about 10 minutes' walk off—I communicated

with the constable and saw the two prisoners go into another public-house, the Pilgrim, I lost eight of the other man—I marked the half-crown; it was brought to the station afterwards.

Cross-examined by Dixon. I marked it at the station, I had it in my pocket till I got there—you passed no bad money in our house.

FREDERICK ASHBY . My father keeps the White Hart, near Kennington Cross—about 10.30 on 20th April Longman and another man, not the prisoner, came in—they asked fur twopenny worth of gin and a half-pint of beer, which came to 3 1/2 d., I served them—the man tendered a half-crown, which was very light, I thought it was not good—I showed it to my father and returned it to the man—he gave me a good florin—I gave him the change, and they left together.

Cross-examined by Dixon. I never saw you in the house passing bad money.

CLARA REDDING . My husband keeps the Pilgrim public-house, Upper Kennington Lane—about 10 o'clock on the 20th April the two prisoners came in and asked for half of stout and mild and half of mild and bitter, that would come to threepence—Dixon tendered a half-crown—I gave him two shillings and threepence change, and laid the half-crown on the till by itself, and told him I did not like the look of it, and gave it him back—he said he did not know where he got it—he asked the girl if she had got any change—she said "No"—he gave me a shilling—I gave him ninepence change, and the bad half-crown—my husband came in the bar afterwards—a young man came in and spoke to him—a constable came in, and the prisoners were given in custody.

Cross-examined by Dixon. I put the money on the top of the till—I did not try it in any way.

JOHN REDDING . I am landlord of the Pilgrim—I came into my bar about 11 o'clock and saw the two prisoners in conversation with my wife about this half-crown—I asked Dixon to let me see it—he was standing there drinking and did so—I said "A child could have detected that was bad; where did you get it from?"—he said him and his missus had been down Lambeth Walk purchasing some articles, and he had evidently got it there—a young man beckoned me from the outside, and made a communication to me—a constable came in, and the prisoners were taken.

Cross-examined by Dixon. You showed me the half-crown directly—you said something to the people in the bar about where you got it.

RALPH BROWN (Policeman Z 52). About 10.30 I was on duty in Upper Kennington Lane—a man spoke to me, in consequence of which I went in search of the prisoners—I saw them in the Pilgrim, the female sitting and the man standing—I sent a man to tell the landlord I wished to speak to him—the landlord came out—I went into the Pilgrim with the landlord and asked him in the presence of the prisoners to point out the man that passed the bad coin—the landlord pointed out Dixon—he pointed out Longman afterwards—I told Dixon I should search him, and started doing so with policeman 240—he resisted—I found on him this bad half-crown, and at the station I found sixpence and three halfpence in good money—the other constable took the female—we took them to the station—as soon as I got to the door of the Pilgrim he made a rush to get away—I had hard work to hold him—as soon as we got outside he struggled very violently—I had to force him into the public house again and send for assistance—at the station when charged he made no answer—the female

said "I know nothing about it, neither have I been with any other man"—the charge was uttering counterfeit coin at the Pilgrim and Cock and Bottle—Dixon gave his address 140, Brook Street, Kennington Road and Longman 28, Sturgeon Road, Surrey Gardens Estate.

Cross-examined by Dixon. I threw you down twice—the landlord of the Pilgrim gave you in charge before I took you out of the house.

ELLEN NORTH . I am the searcher at the Kennington Lane Station—I searched the female prisoner, and found a florin, nine shillings, three sixpences, and 3d. in bronze—she said the man was not her husband, that she had been drinking with him all that evening—the money was in her purse in her hand—she had nothing about her.

WILLIAM JOHN WEBSTER . These half-crowns are both bad and from the same mould.

Dixon in his statement before the Magistrate denied all knowledge of the first uttering, and asserted that the second one was a good coin.

Witness for Dixon.

VIOLET DIXON . I live at 140, Brook Street, and have no occupation—I gave you a half-crown, a shilling, and sixpence, on Monday morning, April 20th, between 12 and 1 o'clock.

Dixon in his defence denied all guilty knowledge. Longman stated that she went with Dixon to have a drink, that the money in her possession she had got at Wine Office Court, where she had been taking some work home.

JOHN REDDING (Re-examined). Longman accompanied me down to the station, following behind; no notice was taken of her at the time—they were both charged at the police-station.

GUILTY . DIXON— Eighteen Months' Hard Labour. LONGMAN— Three Months' Hard Labour.


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