Old Bailey Proceedings.
28th March 1881
Reference Number: t18810328

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Old Bailey Proceedings front matter.
28th March 1881
Reference Numberf18810328

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Sessions Paper.








Short-hand Writers to the Court,








Law Booksellers and Publishers.



On the Queen's Commission of



The City of London,





Held on Monday, March 28th, 1881, and following days,

BEFORE THE RIGHT HON. WILLIAM McARTHUR, M.P., LORD MAYOR of the City of London; The Hon. Sir HENRY HAWKINS , Knt., one of the Justices of the Exchequer Division of the High Court of Justice; THOMAS QUESTED FINNIS, Esq., Sir ROBERT WALTER GARDEN , Knt., M.P., Sir THOMAS DAKIN , Knt., and Sir THOMAS WHITE , Knt., Aldermen of the said City; Sir THOMAS CHAMBERS , Knt., Q.C., M.P., Recorder of the said City; JAMES FIGGINS , Esq., SIMEON CHARLES HADLEY , Esq., GEORGE SWAN NOTTAGE , Esq., JOHN STAPLES , Esq., and ROBERT NICHOLAS FOWLER , Esq., M.P., other of the Aldermen of the said City; Sir WILLIAM THOMAS CHARLEY , Knt., Q.C., D.C.L., Common Serjeant of the said City; and ROBERT MALCOLM KERR , Esq., LL.D., Judge of the Sheriffs' Court: Her Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer, and General Gaol Delivery of Newgate, holden for the said City, and Judges of the Central Criminal Court.









A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than ones in custody—an obeliskthat they are known to be the associates of had characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoner's age.


OLD COURT.—Monday, March 28th, 1881.

Before Mr. Recorder.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-339
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

Related Material

339. JAMES KEMP, EDWARD GEORGE CHAPMAN , and RICHARD LUXTON MELHUISH , were indicted for feloniously forging and uttering a certain deed with intent to defraud.

No evidence being offered, the prisoners were found


28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-340
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

340. ISAAC MOSS (36) and ALFRED SETCHFIELD(44) , Feloniously forging and uttering an order for 40l. 10s. with intent to defraud.

MOSS PLEADED GUILTY , and after the case had commenced SETCHFIELD wished to withdraw his plea of

NOT GUILTY, and so stating in the hearing of the Jury, they found him


MOSS was recommended to mercy by the prosecutor, believing htm to have been influenced bySetchfield.— Six Months' Imprisonment.

SETCHFIELD.— Five Years Penal Servitude.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-341
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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341. WILLIAM SYKES(25) PLEADED GUILTY to unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.— Six Months' Imprisonment.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-342
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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342. JOSIAH WALTER WOOD (31) to unlawfully and wilfully damaging a shop window belonging to George Evans and another.— [Pleaded guilty. See original trial image.] Four Months' Imprisonment.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-343
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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343. WILLIAM WATTS GILLESPIE (17) to stealing whilst employed in the Post-office. He received a good character. [Pleaded guilty. See original trial image.]— Eighteen Months Imprisonment.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-344
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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344. JOHN ANDERSON (37) to three indictments for embezzling sums received by him whilst employed in the Post-office.— [Pleaded guilty. See original trial image.]

Five Years' Penal Servitude.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-345
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

345. ERNEST RICHTER(21) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. LLOYD Prosecuted.

JAMES FORSDIKE I am a tobacconist, of 411. Edgware Road—on 28th February, between 5 and 6 in the evening, I saw the prisoner in the shop—my son brought me this bad half-crown, and went with me after the prisoner—he had got about 20 doors away when we came up

to him; I said "You will have to come back with me, you have just passed a bad half-crown;" he said "I shan't come back, it has nothing to do with you;" he tried to knock me down; we struggled, and finding that I was surrounded by his friends, I pushed him into a baker's shop—a policeman came up, and I gave him into custody—this packet of tobacco, which had been sold him, was found in his pocket at the station.

HERBERT ARTHUR FORSDIKE I am the son of the last witness—on 28th February, between 5 and 6 in the evening, the prisoner came in and asked for half an ounce of shag, which came to 1 1/2 d.—he gave me a half-crown in payment; I gave him in change a two-shilling piece and 4 1/2 d—he then went away—I gave the half-crown to my father, and went out with him after the prisoner, and overtook him about 20 yards off—I said "You have given me a bad half-crown;" he said "Did I?" and tried to run away, but my father caught him.

FREDERICK ALBERT CLARKE I am assistant to Mr. Russell, a confectioner, at 401, Edgware Road—on 28th February, between 5 and 6, I heard some scuffling in my shop—I went into the shop, and saw the prisoner, and Mr. Forsdike had hold of him—two policemen came of and took the prisoner away—after he had gone I picked up a half-crown on the door mat; I took it on, and gave it to the policeman.

ALFRED SIMMS (Policeman S R 27). I was sent for to Mr. Russell's shop, and there saw the prisoner and Mr. Forsdike, who gave him into custody for passing a bad half-crown at his shop—the prisoner said he did not know it was bad—I found on him this half-ounce of tobacco, a two-shilling piece, and 6 1/2 d. in good money—I received the two half-crowns from the witnesses.

WILLIAM WEBSTER I am Inspector of Coin to the Mint—these half-crowns are bad, not from the same mould.

GUILTY He also PLEADED GUILTY to a previous conviction.— Two Years' Imprisonment.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-346
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

346. JAMES COOK (21) , Stealing two letters, two envelopes, three pieces of paper, and a cheque for 14l. 7s. 11d. of Henry Mehling. MESSRS. COWIE and BAGGALLAY Prosecuted.

ALBERT GREGORY (Policeman E 155). On 4th March, about a quarter to 9 in the morning, I was in the Strand, and saw the prisoner at the corner of Southampton Street, coming from the direction of the City—he stopped at the corner, and began tearing up some papers, and threw them down in the road—I knew his face, and walked towards him; as soon as I did so he ran away—I followed him, calling "Stop thief"—he ran up Southampton Street and. several streets until he got into Eagle Court, where I lost him—I then went back to the spot where he threw the papers down, and picked every bit up; they were in very small pieces; I produce them; it is a letter in a foreign language—I searched along the Strand for about 200 yards in the direction the prisoner had come and found these other pieces; they are parts of a circular—on 7th March I went to No. 2, Eagle Court, where I saw Mrs. Batty and her little girl—from what I was told I went down into the basement, and there found this envelope and these fragments of another envelope addressed to Mr. Mehling, 180, Fleet Street—I also found this bill and invoice from Mark and Co. to Brown and Mehling, 180, Fleet Street—I after

wards went to 180. Tint Strut, and saw Mr. Mehling—I afterwards made a communication to Detective Potts, of the City force, and on 12th March I taw the prisoner in his custody.

EDWARD SCHMIDT , I live at 155A, Upper Thames Street, and am London agent to Messrs. Mark and Co., of New York—I received from Mr. Mehling, of 180, Fleet Street, a statement of account; this is it—I received it by post on 3rd March; I receipted it, and gave it to my clerk to post to Brown and Mehling.

SIDNEY GOW I am clerk to Mr. Schmidt—I posted the letter on the evening of 3rd March.

JOSEPH HASSELL I reside at 44, Seaside Road, Eastbourne—I was examined about this matter at the police-court—my father was also examined there; he has since died—this cheque for 14l. 7s. 11d., drawn by him in favour of Messrs. Brown and Mehling, was given to me by my father on 3rd March—I enclosed it with a letter in an envelope, and addressed it to "Brown and Mehling, 180, Fleet Street, London"—I gave it to my cousin, Caroline Noakes, to post—the cheque was made payable to order; there was no endorsement on it then; it is now endorsed "Brown and Mehling"—I know the signature of that firm; it is not their endorsement.

CAROLINE NOAKES . I live at 44, Seaside Road, Eastbourne—I am related to Mr. Hassell—on 3rd March he gave me a letter to post, addressed to "Brown and Mehling, Fleet Street, London"—I posted it at the post-office, Eastbourne, in the same state as it was given to me.

JOSIAH BROWN . I am manager of the Old Bank at Lewes—in March last we had a customer named Stephen Hassall, of Eastbourne; he has since died—this cheque was presented for payment at the bank on 4th March, between three and four o'clock, by the prisoner—I asked if he lived at Eastbourne; he said he did—I asked what business he was; he said, "A waste-paper dealer"—I then gave him the cash in coin—I afterwards picked him out at the Mansion House.

HENRY MEHLING . I carry on business as Brown and Mehling at 180, Fleet Street—there is a letter-box attached to the street door for the reception of letters—on the morning of 4th March I found it broken open, and only about a dozen letters in it instead of the usual number, 20 to 30—on 7th March the detective showed me these piece of paper and this envelope addressed to my sister, Miss Mehling, 180, Fleet Street, and these pieces of the invoice from Marks and Co.—this cheque for 14l. 7d. 11d. was drawn by Stephen Hassall, with whom I did business; it is made payable to order; the endorsement is not mine, or by my authority.

WILLIAM NATHANIEL BIQNALL I am a letter-carrier employed in the E.C. district—on the night of 3rd March I was making a delivery in Fleet Street—the last delivery was about 8.45—I delivered some letters at Brown and Mehling's, No. 180, in the letter-box—some of these pieces of envelope are stamped with the stamp of 4th March.

CHARLES NATHAN LUCAS I am a letter-carrier in the S.E. district—on the morning of 4th March I delivered the usual number of letters at Brown and Mehling's—this envelope is one I should have delivered that morning.

MARY ANN BATTY I am the wife of William James Batty, a carman, of 3, Eagle Court, Strand—I was at home on the morning of 4th March—about 9 o'clock my little girl went down into the basement for some

water; she told me something—I heard somebody run down into the cellar and come up again.

CATHERINE BATTY . I am eight years old, and am the daughter of the last witness—a few weeks ago I went down into the basement to get a can of water, and saw the prisoner on the stairs—I had seen him before about the court.

ALBERT BENNETT . I am assistant to Mr. Curtis, of Catherine Street, Strand—I have known the prisoner to speak to about 18 months—on 9th March I met him at a public-house with two of my shopmates—the prisoner said, "I have stolen a cheque for 14l. odd, signed it, took it to Eastbourne, and changed it, and bought some furniture and some clothes for my wife and myself"—I did not ask him any questions; I thought it was a serious case, and I turned round and told my two shopmates word for word as he told me—he did not say anything about any letters, or where he got the cheque from, or when; I did not ask him—he did not speak loud enough for my two companions to hear—I don't suppose he would have told me this, but he was half-intoxicated—I said I should not like to be him—he laughed.

WILLIAM POTTS (City Detective). From information I received from Gregory I arrested the prisoner on Saturday, 12th March, in the Strand—I said, "I want to speak to you"—he said, "What for, Mr. Potts?"—I said, "You will be charged with stealing some letters from 180, Fleet Street"—he said, "What else, Mr. Potts?"—I said, "Also for forging an endorsement to a cheque, and going down to, Eastbourne and cashing it"—he said, "What else, Mr. Potts?" I said, "There will be other charges, but you will be told what on a future occasion"—I took him to the station and charged him—he said nothing.

GUILTY . He also PLEADED GUILTY to a previous conviction at this Court in July, 1871. Other convictions, were proved against him.— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

NEW COURT.—Monday, March 28th, 1881.

Before Mr. Common Sergeant.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-347
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

347. GEORGE FRAZER (62) PLEADED GUILTY to feloniously uttering counterfeit coin after a previous conviction of a like offence.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-348
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment

Related Material

348. GEORGE FRAZER was again indicted with JAMES BENJAMIN (39) for unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin, to which FRAZER PLEADED GUILTY .

MESSRS. CRAWFURD and LLOYD Prosecuted; MR. W. S. LEIGH defended


ESTHER SERJEANT. I am barmaid at the Puke of Cornwall, Kentish, Town—on 9th March, between 3 and 4 p.m., I served Frazer with a glass of sherry—he gave me a crown piece—I did not like to take it because I had not seen one for a long time, and asked him for another coin—he said that he had nothing but a sovereign, which he gave me, and then, went just outside the door and came back with Benjamin, and said to him, "This lady refuses taking a five-shilling piece"—Benjamin laughed, and Frazer asked him what he would have—he said, "I will have some ale"—he had a glass—Benjamin gave me a shilling, and I gave him 6d. change—they both left together.

Cross-examined. I gave the crown back to Frazer—it may have been good for all I know—I told Inspector Warner that I had seen these two men together—my father it in the S Division of police, this division—bad mother had cautioned me about taking bad money, as there were bad crowns about, which was why I would not take it—my father said, "You had better go and see Inspector Warner, and I did so, and gave him a description of the two men—they did not seem stranger to each other—the house was empty except the prisoners.

HENRY MILLER . I keep the Wells Tavern, Hampstead—on 9th March, about 4 p.m., I served Frazer with some sherry and a biscuit—he put down this crown produced— I gave him 4s. 7d. change, and put it in my pocket, which I generally do with crown-pieces, and take them upstairs—he stayed about live minutes—about a quarter of an hour after he left I washed the coin; it was greasy, and I found it was bad—I had no other in my pocket—I marked it "M" and gave it to the inspector.

Cross-examined. It was marked between 8 and 9 o'clock.

WILLIAM HOWELL . I keep the Magdala Tavern, South Hill Park, Hampstead, about a quarter of a mile from Mr. Millar's house—on the March, about 4 p.m., I served Frazer with some-sherry, which came to 4d.—he gave me this crown (marked H)—I gate him 4s. 8d. change, and put it by itself on the shelf of the till—he left in five minutes—about 6 o'clock that evening two detectives 'came, and I went With them to the station and pave the coin to the inspector, after marking it.

MINNIE PETERS . My husband keeps the Yale of Health Tavern, Hampstead—on 9th March, between 4 and 5 o'clock, I served Frazer with some brandy—he gave me this crown and I gave him two florins and sixpence and twopence change—it is marked with a cross, by which I identify it—I showed it to my husband, who put it in his pocket—I went back in three minutes and the prisoner had gone—about 0 o'clock the inspector came; my husband gave me the coin, I examined it and gave it to Waller—we had no other crown in the house.

ESTHER SERJEANT. (Re-examined by MR. W. SLEIGH) It was between 3 and 4 p.m. as near as I can judge that I saw Benjamin in the house; it was at the same time as Frazer—it was nearer 4 than 3 o'clock—I did not see that person (a woman) at the police-court; I know she was there, but I did not hear her evidence—I did not see Benjamin again after seeing him with Frazer.

MARGARET DENHAM . I am barmaid at the Coach and Horses, Heath Street, Hampstead—on Wednesday, 9th March, about 4.15 or 4.20, I served Benjamin with three pennyworth of brandy—he gave me a good half-sovereign, and I gave him the change—he then said "Can you oblige me with a five-shilling piece, I want it for my young lady"—I had taken one a few minutes before, and I gave it to him with, I think, four shillings, sixpence, and three pence—I believe it was good.

Cross-examined. A woman gave me that crown just before—the prisoner did not tell me that he was collecting five-shilling pieces—the five shilling piece may have been among those produced at the police-court, but I do not think it was.

Re-examined. The four coins shown to me were bad.

FANNY OSBORNE . I am barmaid at the Spaniards, Hampstead Heath—on 9th March, between 4 and 5 o'clock, I served Fraser with some brandy and a biscuit—he gave me a crown, and I gave him 4s. 6d. change—this is the coin (produced)—I made this cross on it at the station.

JOHN BAILEY . I am a chemist, at 44, Hampstead Hill Gardens—on 9th March, between 5 and 6 p.m., I served Frazer with a sixpenny box of antibilious pills and a Seidlitz powder—he gave me a crown—I had not enough change, and sent my assistant for it with the coin—I afterwards returned it to Frazer and he offered me a sovereign—refused to take it and he paid me in postage-stamps—while my assistant was away Benjamin came in for a box of antibilious pills; he gave me either a sixpence or shilling, and I gave him the change—he remained a minute or two, Frazer being in the shop during that time—a crown was shown to me at the police-court, but I could not swear to it, as there was no mark on it—the box of pills was found—this (produced) is one of my sixpenny pill boxes, it bears my label, and is the one I sold to Frazer.

Cross-examined. I first saw Esther Serjeant to-day—I my have seen her at the police-court, but did not notice her—I afterwards saw Benjamin in the station yard, but I did not see my assistant there; he was not asked to recognise Benjamin—I do not think he saw him in the shop—I believe he went out as Benjamin came in—he did not go to the station yard—I did not tell him how Benjamin was dressed—Sergeant Waller I believe first spoke to me about giving evidence—my assistant and I did not go into the station yard together, unless he was behind me—I did not see him—he did not put Benjamin out, he never saw him to my knowledge—we did not go to the station yard together.

By the JURY. I saw no sign of recognition pass between the prisoners.

THOMAS CLARK . I am assistant to Mr. Bailey—he sent me for change for a crown, which I brought and handed to him—Frazer was then in the shop but not Benjamin.

Cross-examined. I never saw Benjamin till I went to the station—I picked Frazer out in the station yard, but I did not go in with Mr. Bailey—I went in first and he followed—I did not see him pick out Benjamin—I do not know whether Benjamin was in the yard when Frazer was identified, because I did not know him.

CHARLOTTE DUCKETT . I assist in the bar at Jack Straw's Castle, kept by Mr. Lane—on 9th March, between 5 and 5.30 p.m., I served a man with a glass of sherry and a biscuit—I cannot recognise him—he gave me a crown,. which I put in the till and gave him the change—there was no other crown there—he left, and about an hour afterwards Mr. Miller and a policeman came—I then looked in the till and found the crown, and it was bad—about 7 or 7.30 Benjamin came in and called for three pennyworth of something and a cigar—he paid with a sovereign, and asked for large change, and said "If you have a five-shilling piece will you let me have it?"—Mr. Lane said that he had one in his pocket which he would let him have for 7s. 6d., and he had a duffer which he would let him have for 4s. 6d., but that was a joke—Benjamin said that he wanted it for a young lady's brooch; he paid 4s. for it—I have seen it again—Mr. Lane gave him the change.

Cross-examined. I knew that it was bad when it was given for 4s.; that was the same crown—I thought it was done to make a brooch—it was done in a joke—4s. 9d. was spoken of for it, but that was in jest—Mr. Lane said "I have a duffer here which you can have for 4s. 9d.; mind, it is a bad one."

JOHN LANE . I keep Jack Straw's Castle, Hampstead Heath—on 19th March, about 7 or 7.30 p.m., Benjamin came in for threepenny worth of

brandy or whisky and a threepenny cigar—I will not say whether I or my brother-in-law served him; he tendered a sovereign, asked for change, and laid "Have you a crown piece; I want it for a brooch for my young lady?"—I said "I have a crown piece in my pocket, but no money would buy that, but there lays a duffer on the table which you can have for 4s. 9d."—he said "If it is not too much worn I will give you 4s."—I handed him the bad crown, he laid the 4s. on the counter, and immediately left.

Cross-examined. This is the first time I have been a witness in a Court of Justice—I never thought the man was going to buy if, I only said it in a joke—the intrinsic value of it was the fractional part of one penny—he dropped the 4s. on the counter, and was out of the house directly—I went to the station the same evening at 8 or 8.30, and saw both prisoners in the yard, and there might be a dozen other people—Miller was there and another witness, and the inspector on duty and Mr. Serjeant, the father of the witness; there were eight or nine policemen in all.

Re-examined. I did not go to identify the prisoners, only from curiosity—I was not asked to identify them, but I identified Benjamin—I did not notice whether they were with others; I noticed no other prisoners.

ELIZA BUSBRIDGE . My husband keeps the Cock and Crown, High Street, Hampstead, about 10 minutes' walk from Jack Straw's Castle on 9th March, about 6 p.m., I served Frazer with a glass of sherry, which came to 4d.; he put down a crown, dated 1821; I gave him the change, and put it in my purse, where there was no other crown—I gave it to my daughter the same evening—I cannot swear to it.

ELIZA BUSERIDGE, JUN I am the daughter of the last witness—on 9th March, about 7 p.m., I served Benjamin with twopennyworth of gin; he gave me a halt-sovereign, and asked for as large change as I could possibly give him—I went to my mother, and got three florins, a half-crown, a shilling, and a sixpence, which I offered him, and he asked if I had a 5s. piece—knowing that my mother had one I got it from her, and gave it to him, and he gave me 5s. for it—the date was 1821—I cannot swear to it.

Cross-examined. He was in the house about five minutes; he said that he wanted crown pieces to save up for a dowry for a young lady who was going to be married—he did not say for a brooch—he did not say "for my young lady."

ISAAC GOBY . (Policeman S 80). I am stationed at Hampstead—on 9th March, about 6.15 p.m., I received information, and went to Haverstock Hill, near the Vestry Hall, where I saw Frazer, and took him back to Mr. Bailey's shop, where he was identified—I then received information of another uttering at the Well's Tavern—I took him to the station, where this purse was found on him, containing three pennies, also a Seidlitz powder and a box of pills.

EDWARD SALES (Policeman S 428). On 9th March, a little before 6 p.m., I was with two other constables is the Roebuck Hotel, Pond Street, Hampstead—I was off duty—Clark, Mr. Bailey's assistant, came in, and showed a crown to the barmaid, and the landlord and I went outside, and saw Benjamin opposite Mr. Bailey's shop, and Frazer standing outside the shop—I was in uniform; Benjamin saw me and walked away towards a passage leading to Haverstock Hill; Frazer crossed the road and went in the same direction; they went towards St. Stephen's Church—Goby came up in plain clothes and went after them.

DAVID WATING (Policeman S 62), On "9th March, In consequence of instructions, I went with another constable to Mr. Bailey's shop, and found Frazer in custody—about an hour and a half afterwards I saw Benjamin 200 or 300 yards from Mr. Bailey's, and said "We must take you in custody for being concerned with another man in uttering counterfeit coin"—he said "Very well"—I searched him at the station, and found four bad crowns, a sovereign, seven half-crowns ten florins, 18 shillings, 19s. 6 1/4 d. in bronze, an aluminum watch, a pocket-book, two latch keys, two watch keys, a pencil-case, knife, and a pair of brass hinges—the bad coins were loose in his left trousers pocket, and the good in the right.

Cross-examined. I took Benjamin about 50 yards from the station; Frazer was then in the station, and he was sitting In the charge-room when Benjamin was searched—Lane, Miller, and Bailey came to identify him the same night, about 8 o'clock, when he was put with several persons, and the witnesses came in one after the other; Miller arrived first, and they passed into the charge-room one after the other.

JOHN WARNER (Policeman). On 9th March I was at Hampstead Station when the prisoners were brought in; Frazer about 6.30 and Benjamin about 7.30—I read the charge, and Benjamin said "I can account for all the coins I have; I gave 6s. for one and. 4s. for another, although I knew that one to be a bad one. I am a general dealer; I am engaged to a young lady. I am going about collecting crown pieces, and when I have obtained 100 of them we are going to be married"—I said "Give me your address, please"—he said "I shall not"—Peters showed me this coin, and I marked it with a cross—on 11th March Inspector Milward gave me this crown (produced)—before Frazer was charged he was sitting at a table in the charge-room, and I pointed out the place to Tulman.

Cross-examined. I said at the police-court Frazer said he would not give any account of himself when charged—I do not think I said anything there about Benjamin refusing to give an account of himself, but it is on the original charge-sheet.

Re-examined. Benjamin gave his name and refused his address, but Frazer refused all.

JOHN TULMAN (Policeman S 77). On 11th March I had occasion to move the table in the charge-room of the station, and this coin (produced) dropped from some place under it—I picked it up and gave it to Inspector Milwood.

Cross-examined. I was not called at the police-court—I do not think the table was moved between the 9th and the 11th—Inspector Milwood is not here—the charge-room is cleaned every morning, but not by me—I spoke to Inspector Waller about it last Friday—nobody pointed out to me where the prisoners sat in the charge-room, but a witness told me where Frazer sat.

Ms-examined. It dropped from the side of the table as Frazer sat.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am Inspector of Coin to the Mint—this crown marked "M" is bad, and is of 1820—this one marked "H" is also bad and from the same mould—this one marked with a cross and uttered to Peters is bad and from the same mould as the other two—the coin picked up is of 1821, and marked either with two crosses or a cross and a T; that is bad, and here is another from the same mould—the four crowns found on Benjamin are bad; one is dated 1820, and is from the

same mould as the first three, and the other three are of 1831, all from the same mould, and from the same mould as the two last I spoke of.

FRAZER.**— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

BENJAMIN.— GUILTY fifteen Months' Imprisonment.

OLD COURT.—Tuesday, March 29th, 1881.

Before Mr. Recorder.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-349
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

349. RICHARD WILLIAM EVANS (19) , Felonious forging and uttering an order for 4l. 4s., with, intent to defraud.

MR. HORACE AVORY Prosecuted; MR. GEOGHEGAN Defended.

WILLIAM FIELD , I am a cashier at the Shoreditch Branch of the London and County Bank—we have a customer named Samuel Gilkes, of the Triangle, Hackney—on 21st February this order. for a cheque-book was brought by a small boy about 12 years of age; it in signed "S. Gilkes;" believing that to be the genuine signature of Mr. Gilkes, I gave the boy a 50 cheque-book, with a series number of £5068—all the cheques in that book bore that same number—these, two cheque marked B and C are two cheques from that book—one is for four guineas, payable to G. H. Fox, signed Samuel Gilkes; and the other is for 2l., payable to H. Price, signed C. H. Cole—to the beet of my belief, they are written by the same person who wrote the order for the cheque book.

Cross-examined. The order is not a good imitation of Mr. Gilkee's writing; it is an imitation; I believed it to be his at the time; I was taken off my guard—I did not take the boy's signature for the cheque-book; he brought it with one of Mr. Gilkes's business cards.

SAMUEL GILKES . I am a paper stainer, of the Triangle, Hackney—I kept an account at the Shoreditch Branch of the London and County Bank—this order of the cheque-book is not my writing or by my authority—I never received it—this cheque for four guineas is not signed by me or by my authority; I know nothing of it—I have no customer named C.H. Fox—on 14th February I received a letter from a person named Alexander—it laid on my desk two or three days, and I then burnt it; it was about some paper-hanging and wishing to see me next day—I replied to that letter, addressed to Alexander, two doors from the White Swan, Tottenham High Cross, a sweet-shop, the address given in the letter—this is one of my business cards; my travellers circulate them—I did not enclose one to Alexander—I think I signed my letter "S. Gilkes."

Cross-examined. I know nothing of prisoner—the body of the order is a good imitation of my writing, but the signature is not.

EMILY CARDWELL . I live with my mother at a sweetmeat-shop, two doors from the White Swan, Tottenham High Cross—about the middle of February the prisoner came there and asked if a letter might be left there for him in the name of Alexander—I said I would ask my mother and she said yes—not long after he came and asked if the letter had come—I said no—shortly after he passed the shop with a young man, and I called him in and gave him the letter which had come addressed to Mr. Alexander.

Cross-examined. The young man came into the shop with him—they

were coming from the direction of the White Swan, which was two doors from our shop—the prisoner put the letter in his pocket without opening it.

THOMAS COLSTON I keep the Victoria, St. Ann's Road, Stamford Hill—about three weeks prior to 21st February I had known the prisoner slightly, from using the house—he borrowed a sovereign of me one evening before the 21st—on the 21st he gave me this cheque for four guineas, and I gave him 3l. 4s. change, dedueting the sovereign I had lent him; it is payable to C. H. Fox or order—I asked the prisoner to endorse it, and he endorsed it on the counter "C. H. Fox"—there was another man with him at the time; he did not take any part in the transaction, he stood in the corner by the side of the partition, next to him—next day I paid the cheque into my bank, and it was returned marked "Signature differs."

Cross-examined. I have seen the other man since; he has been in the house inquiring for the prisoner—I don't know his name—the prisoner asked me to cash the cheque almost as soon as they came in—I am not certain whether they left together—I could not say what was done with the money—the last time I saw the other man was last Sunday week—I did not tell him that Evans had been arrested—I never remember seeing him to take any notice of him till I saw him with Evans—I did not know the prisoner's name—the man did not inquire for him by name, he said "The party that was with him that night"—he described him.

HENRY PRICE . I am a butcher, of Ordnance Road, Enfield Wash—I have known the prisoner about two months; I did not know his name—on 25th February I saw him outside the Meat Market—he said to me "Do you want any money?"—I said I am rather short; I could do with a sovereign, and I would give him a guinea for it—he said "I will write you a cheque out for 2l."—I said "Very well, if so I will give you two guineas for it"—we went to a public-house, and he took out a cheque-book, tore out a cheque, and wrote it on the bar, and signed it "C. H. Cole"—I bought some beef of a salesman, and passed the cheque to him; it was afterwards returned, and I had to pay the 2l.—after the prisoner tore out the cheque he put the book in his side coat pocket; it is not true that I bought it of him for a shilling—he asked me what loose cash I had got—I said "I have a little; what do you want?"—he said "Eight shillings," and I lent him 8s., which his mother afterwards repaid me.

Cross-examined. I had seen the prisoner every Friday outside the market; he was acquainted with my neighbour Clark—this was the first money transaction I had with him—I did not know his name or what he was—I did not ask him how he came to have a cheque-book—I saw him again that night outside my shop at Enfield, and introduced my wife to him as Mr. Cole.

HENRY RANDALL (City Detective Sergeant). On 7th March, about 10.30 a.m., I was in company with Detective Davidson, and saw the prisoner at Stamford Hill—I stopped him and told him we were police-officers, and I should take him into custody for forgeries on the London and County Bank, Shoreditch, for passing a forged order and obtaining a cheque-book, also for uttering a forged cheque for 250l., a cheque for 4l. 4s., and a cheque for 2l.—he said "Yes, I have been the dupe of

others"—I took him to the station, and Mr. Colston came and identified him—after the charge was read over he said he wished to make a statement, and I wrote it down—this is it (This alleged that a man calling himself Gilkes gave him the 4l. 4s. cheque to cash, and afterwards gave him the cheque-book)—I found on him this memorandum book.

Cross-examined. He said that Price had given him a shilling for the cheque-book—he did not give me any description of the man Gilkes, or where he was to be found.

WILLIAM FIELD . (Re-examined). I have compared the handwriting in the memorandum book found on the prisoner with this order for the cheque-book and with the cheques, and I say they are all written by the same person.

SEPTIMUS REED WILSON . I am a cashier in the London and County Bank—I have examined these two cheques and the order, with this memorandum book, and say they are all in the same handwriting.

GUILTY . He also PLEADED GUILTY to a previous conviction.**—

Five Years' Penal Servitude.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-350
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

350. HENRY EDWARD GREEN (26) , Feloniously marrying Christiana Vaughan, his wife being then alive.


JAMES BOYLE I live at 352, Ashton Old Road, Orpenshaw, Manchester, and am a metal turner—I have known the prisoner about eight years; I knew him as William Henry Green; he lodged in my house in Bake Street for about six months—I produce this certificate of marriage between William Henry Green and Mary Ann Wetherby on 10th October, 1874—I was present at the marriage at Manchester Cathedral and signed the register—Mary Ann Wetherby is still alive; I saw her last Sunday—on 7th July, 1877, I was present at the Manchester Assizes, when the prisoner was tried for bigamy with Martha Phillips—I then proved his marriage with Wetherby.

CHRISTIANA VAUGHAN . I live at 476, Holloway Road—on 18th March, 1879, I was married to the prisoner at Cripplegate Church, City—I had known him about two months—he said he was a bachelor—I produce the certificate (In this he was described as Henry Edwin Green, bachelor, aged 23)—when I discovered that he was a married man I gave him into custody.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. Your friends did not tell me that you were married; they said you were engaged to a young woman, but they did not know whether you were married or not—you gave me the paper to put up the banns—your mother went to the church and stopped the banns, but she afterwards let it go on—you did not want to break it off; one minute you said you would, and then you said you would not—my mother did not keep a bad house; you are speaking very wicked lies.

By the COURT I lived with him some time after our marriage, and then we separated because he did not do any work, and I was too ill to do any—I had no money, and he told me I could go—I have one child by him nine months old.

The Prisoner. It is not mine; I have been away from her seventeen months.

CHARLES DALEY (Policeman). The last witness gave the prisoner into my custody—I told him she charged him with bigamy—he said she

could not do it as his wife was dead—at the station he said to the witness "You know you are not my lawful wife, as my first wife was living at the time we were married, but I am willing to make you my wife as she is now dead; I will take you to a comfortable home, and we will live very comfortable together."

Prisoner's Defence. The young lady I last married knew distinctly that I had been married before. I did not deceive her; I did not know at the time that my old wife was really alive, in fact I don't know now that she is. I have not seen her; I believe she married another man at Manchester, and had two or three children by him; Mr. Boyle knows it.

JAMES BOYLE (He-examined), It is false; she came to be my servant while he was in prison—I had nothing to do with their separation.

GUILTY He also PLEADED GUILTY to a previous conviction for bigamy at Manchester on 7th My, 1877, after a conviction at the Middlesex Sessions for stealing in a dwelling-house.

Five Years' Penal Servitude.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-351
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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351. JOHN OSBORNE(22) , Stealing a purse and 5s. 6d. of Ada Mary Mehew, from her person.

MR. LEVY Prosecuted.

ADA MARY MEHEW I live at 15, George Street, Tower Hill—on the 'evening of 5th March, at a few minutes to 9 o'clock, I was in the Minories; I had a purse in the pocket of my ulster, and an I was going into a shop, dosing my umbrella, two men came past me, took my purse and ran away—the prisoner is one of them; I called police, and the prisoner was caught—I have never seen my purse since.

THOMAS STEPHENS (City Policeman 845). I heard a cry of police, and saw the prisoner running followed by, the prosecutrix—I took hold of him; a lad pointed him out—he said "Yon have made a mistake; you have got the wrong man"—I took him back to the prosecutrix, and she identified him as one of the men who stole her purse; the prisoner appealed to the people round, and they all said he was not the man.

Prisoner's Defence. I am entirely innocent.


28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-352
VerdictNot Guilty > fault

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352. EDWARD BREAKER (43) , Embezzling 1l. 15s. 2d. received on account of Mark Masters, his employer.

MR. J. R. SWIFT Prosecuted.

The prisoner not being a regular servant of the prosecutor, only occasionally employed, the Recorder held that he was not a clerk or servant within the meaning of the Act.


28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-353
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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353. GEORGE SUTTON (38) , Feloniously forging and uttering a receipt for 8l. 7s. 6d. with intent to defraud.

MR. J. P. GRAIN Prosecuted.

ELIJAH COPPING I am superintendent of the London and North Western Railway Company's police—the prisoner has been for some years in the company's employ as a townsman—it was his duty to go round to different persons and ascertain what claims they had against the company for damage to goods, and afterwards to pay those claims, taking receipts for the same—in consequence of some complaints I saw him at the Euston Station on Saturday evening, 5th March; he spoke first, and said "What are you going to do with me after having bean in the employ of the company nineteen years?"—he had been discharged—I

said "You will be charged with stealing money entrusted to you to pay claims," and I read to him from this letter:—"Messrs. Brady and Co., 3l. 2s. 6d., on 13th December last; Messrs. G. Otley and Co., 8l. 7s. 6d., on 23rd December: that has not been paid"—he said "I had the money and I have kept it" or "I have not paid it," I am not sure which—I then showed him the receipt, and said "You have produced these receipts for the money"—he said "Yes; they are in my handwriting"—I said "Then they are forgeries"—he said "yes; I was drove in a corner for money matters."

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I have stated precisely what occurred.

HENRY THOMAS GRINDLAY . I am a clerk in the claims department of the London and North Western Company—on 13th December the prisoner came to me with a cash order to pay him 7l. to satisfy certain claims, amongst others Messrs. Braby for 3l. 2s. 6d.—I paid him the money—it was his duty to have satisfied the claim on that day, or return the money—some time afterwards I received a complaint from Messrs. Braby, and communicated with my superiors—very large sums would pass through the prisoner's hands in a year for this purpose—up to this time he bore a very good character indeed.

Cross-examined. You were dismissed about the middle of January. I have no distinct information why—you represented the company as a principal under my instructions—you had a very large district to look after; amongst other places you had to go to the docks and negotiate with captains and mates and other persons there.

WILLIAM LLOYD . I am a clerk in the company's employ—on 13th December the prisoner presented a cash order for 7l., and I gave him the money—on or about 16th or 17th December he brought me a stamped receipt purporting to be from Braby and Co. for 3s. 2s. 6d.; to the best of my belief it was the prisoner's writing.

ALFRED EDWARD LUSH . I am clerk to Messrs. Braby and Co., of Deptford—in December our firm had a claim of 3l. 2s. 6d. on the London and North Western Company—we sent the bill produced—the receipt to it is not in my writing, or that of any member of the firm—we have not had the money.

The prisoner in his defence stated that his salary was small, and that he was expected to treat the persons with whom he had to negotiate; that on one occasion he unfortunately tool too much to drink and lost the money he had collected; that to cover his deficiency he borrowed of his friends, and had almost repaid what his had lost, when the non-payment of the 3l. 2s. 6d. teas discovered, and he was dismissed, after nineteen years' service.

GUILTY Strongly recommended to mercy by the Jury and prosecutors. Time Days' Imprisonment.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-354
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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354. JOSEPH PATERSON (40) PLEADED GUILTY to stealing a watch and chain of William Smith Boyd from his person, having been before convicted.— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

NEW COURT.—Tuesday, March 29th, 1881.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-355
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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355. JOHN JONES (21) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.


GRACE COLE . I am barmaid at the Old Parr's Head, Hammersmith—on

12th March; about 9 p.m., I served the prisoner with some hot whisky—he gave me a half-crown—I put it to my teeth, found it gritty, and took it to my mistress, who called my master, who said it was a bad one—the prisoner said "A what?" and paid with a good one—my master went out, and the prisoner followed him five minutes afterwards.

HARRIET CARTHEW . My husband keeps the Old Parr's Head, Hammersmith—on 9th March Cole brought me a bad half-crown—I gave it to my husband.

JAMES HENRY CARTHEW . My wife gave me the half-crown, and I said to the prisoner "What do you mean by trying to pass this bad half-crown?" he said "I did not know it was a bad one"—I went out and spoke to a policeman; the prisoner came up, and I said "I have a great mind to lock you up"—he said "I want my half-crown"—my wife had it then—we all walked back to my house—I asked his name and address; he said "Henry Richards, 92, Wardour Street, Oxford Street," and that he worked for Mr. Bodman, a shoemaker, of Tudor Street, Ludgate Hill—I bent the coin all round the edge in a brass machine, and gave it to the prisoner.

Cross-examined. You stopped in the house twenty minutes after it was all settled.

FRANCES MARY REDWOOD . I am barmaid at the Windsor Castle, Hammersmith, kept by Mr. Gilbert—on 12th March, about 10.30, I served the prisoner with a glass of ale—he gave me a bad half-crown, which I gave to my mistress; she gave it to my master—this is it.

EDWIN GILBERT I keep the Windsor Castle, Hammersmith, which is about a mile from the Old Parr's Head—on 12th March I received this coin from my wife, and I said to the prisoner "Have you any more of these?" he said "No"—I said "Where do you live?" he said "At Blackfriars." and that he had been to a running match at Lillie Bridge—that is about two miles from Hammersmith, and in an opposite direction to Blackfriars—I said "This is not your way home from Blackfriars; where do you work?"—he said "2, Wardour Street, Oxford Street"—I jumped over the bar, sent for a constable, and gave the prisoner in. charge.

Cross-examined. The constable searched the bar because you dropped something—I got into a cab and fetched Mr. Cargill, who picked you out from two or three others, and the constable who was called to you at the Old Parr's Head is here.

CHARLES MEREDEW . (Policeman T 599). On the evening of 12th March I was called to the Windsor Castle and saw the prisoner—Mr. Gilbert said that he had been trying to pass a bad half-crown, which he gave me—this is it—Mr. Gilbert said that the prisoner had dropped something—I got a light and searched the bar, but found nothing—only one penny was found on him at the station—he said that he received the money from his landlady, who gave him several half-crowns in change when he paid his rent.

JOHN SWEENEY . (Policeman T 358). Carthew came up to me and made a complaint 120 yards from his house, and then the prisoner came up and Mr. Cargill said that he had a good mind to lock him up—we all three went to the house, where I saw the half-crown—I tried it with my teeth, and it was soft, and slight indentations were left—the prisoner said that he did not know it was bad, and Mr. Cargill did not charge him—he gave his name and address and his master's.

Cross-examined. The coin was given back to you—I was called to you about 9 o'clock the same evening at Mr. Carthew's, and the inspector sent for Mr. Gilbert.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . The half-crown is bad; it is bent at the edge—a good coin could not be bent in a brass machine.

Prisoner's Defence. I put the half-crown down, not knowing it was bad, and deny uttering one at any other place.

GUILTY . He then PLEADED GUILTY** to a conviction of felony in October, 1880.— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-356
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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356. LEOPOLD PHILIP HOSCH FITZGERALD (29) PLEADED GUILTY to stealing six certificates for 100 shares of the Pennsylvania Railway Company, the property of Anthony Bathe.— Eighteen Month' Imprisonment And

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-357
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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357. HENRY GOODYER (18) to forging and uttering an order for the payment of 10l. with intent to defraud.— [Pleaded guilty. See original trial image.] Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-358
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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358. HENRY THOMPSON (21) , Stealing a barrow, the property of John Wootton.

MR. ROUMIEU Prosecuted.

JOHN MURPHY (Policeman G 237). On 4th March at 5.15 p.m. I was on duty in Eyre Street Hill, Clerkenwell, and the prisoner came up to me and said "I have a barrow for sale"—I said "What about it?"—he said "I want you to sign a receipt as a witness that the barrow is mine"—he produced this receipt—I said "How long have you had it?"—he said "I bought it this day week at the cattle market"—I said "What are you?"—he said "A fish hawker"—I said "Why do you want to sell the barrow so soon?"—he said "l am hard up for money; I want some"—I said "I shall take you to the station and detain you while I make inquiries," and took him in charge.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I did not ask six policemen whether I should take you in custody—I spoke to Policeman G 203, who looked at the barrow.

JOHN WOOTTON I am a wood dealer, of Blackfriars Road—I had lent a barrow, value 2l., to Robert Holmes, three weeks before this, and hare since seen it in the possession of the police—I did not write this receipt, "J. Smith sold this barrow to Henry Wright for 13s.; the agreement was made in the market."

Cross-examined. My initials, "J. A. W.," are scratched on the barrow—I did not notice any attempt to scratch them out—you will have to prove that my son sells barrows in the market—he is a wood-cutter—he has not done penal servitude.

ROBERT HOLMES . I keep a fried-fish shop, 23, Market Street, Southwark—I hired a barrow of Wootton, who is in the habit of letting them, and took it to Billingsgate to buy fish—I left it in Love Lane for a short time at 10 a.m. while I delivered an empty truck; when I returned it was gone—nothing was in it—I have seen it since in the possession of the police—my address was on it in large letters, and still is.

Prisoner's Defence. I bought the barrow for 15s. I run short of money, and thought I would sell it. I did not steal it.

GUILTY He then PLEADED GUILTY to a conviction of burglary at this Court in August, 1879.— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-359
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

359. HENRY HALL (26) , Unlawfully obtaining five necklets and other articles of Cornelius saunders by false pretences; also other articles from other persons.

MR. LEVEY Prosecuted.

WILLIAM E. YEWEN I manage the silver department of the late Samuel Smith, 151, Newington Causeway, for his executors—the prisoner was in the employ some time, and left on January 26—this is a form used in the business, and the writing corresponds with a letter which we have from the prisoner.

KATE LUCAS . I am assistant to Cornelius Saunders and Frank Shepherd, wholesale jewellers, 24, Bartlett's Buildings, Holborn—on 3rd February the prisoner brought this order—I had seen him several times before, coming from Samuel Smith, of Newington Causeway—he said, "I want some goods for this order, and I supplied him with five necklets and seven lockets, value 9l. 5s., on approbation, on the faith of the order—these four necklets and four lockets (produced) are ours.

JOHN EOBINSON . (Detective G). I took the prisoner on 15th February in King's Cross Road—he gave his address, 21, Lennox Street, Finsbury Park—I read the warrant to him—he said, "I did not do it with any bad feeling."

Cross-examined. I found a paper on you with "21, Temple Street, Walworth Road" on it—I went there and found these four silver necklets and lockets and other goods.

CAROLINE MITCHELL I am assistant to William Issac Carlos, of 66, Hatton Garden, a manufacturing jeweller—on 4th February the prisoner brought this order: "Please let bearer have some silver sets engraved. Yours, S. Smith"—I had seen him before, and let him. have four sets of brooches and earrings—he then asked for lockets to match, which I gave him—these are some of them (Found at 16, Temple Street by the last witness)—it is a printed memorandum of Mr. Smith's, or I should not have given them to him.

JAMES HIRST . I am a jeweller and watch-case maker, of 13, Arlington Street, Clerkenwell—on 13th February the prisoner brought me the order "Please let bearer have some silver bracelets engraved. Yours, S. Smith"—I had seen him before as Mr. Smith's messenger, but the memorandum influenced my mind, and I gave him eight bracelets, value about 4l. 12s.—these are five of them, varying in value from 10s. to 16s.

ELMOEE THORN I am assistant to Messrs. Archbutt, pawnbrokers, of 201, Westminster Bridge Road—I produce a silver bracelet pawned by the prisoner on 11th February, 1881, in the name of John Jones, 26, Oakley Street, Lambeth.

GEORGE BRAY . I am foreman to Messrs. Ohlson, pawnbrokers, of Westminster Bridge Road—I produce two silver bracelets pawned on 10th and 12th February for 7s. each in the name of John Jones, 26, Oakley Street.

JOHN ROBINSON (Re-examined). I found these two bracelets in a back room at 21, Temple Street, Walworth, also these forms, which are identical with those put in.

WILLIAM E. YEWEN (Re-examined). These memorandums of 3rd, 4th, and 7th February are not my writing, or written by my authority—if anybody wanted anything in my absence they would write an order—I was not away on these days—the book of orders headed "Samuel Smith" is

similar to the forms produced—the prisoner had no authority after 25th January to issue any of these forms; they were kept in a cupboard which was not locked; they are not numbered—no counterfoils are left; these are torn right out.

Cross-examined. You conducted yourself in anything but a proper manner; you were left in charge of the place, and went out and left it without anybody to protect it, and we discharged you.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I did it because I was very hard up." A Second Statement. "I have a good character. I was hard up. I never did such a thing before." A Third Statement. "I was very hard up at the time."

Prisoner's Defence. I went out to post two letters, and forgot to shut the door, that is why I was discharged. I had the money to pay these people, and did not mean to defraud them out of their goods, but before I could do so I was given in custody, and not allowed to pay.

GUILTY Fifteen Months' Imprisonment.

FOURTH COURT.—Tuesday, March 29th, 1881.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-360
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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360. WALTER GREEN (29) PLEADED GUILTY to breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Daniel Macnee, with intent to steal, having been previously convicted.— Ten Years Penal Servitude.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-361
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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361. JOHN CHARLES WICK (16) to robbery with violence on Ellen Elizabeth Hill, and stealing her purse, 15s., and three piece of paper.— [Pleaded guilty. See original trial image.] Judgment Respited.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-362
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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362. WILLIAM HAMMANT (36) to feloniously forging and uttering an order for the payment of 7l. 2s., with intent to defraud.— [Pleaded guilty. See original trial image.] Six Month' Imprisonment. And

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-363
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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363. JOHN FOWLER (18) to feloniously forging and uttering securities for 14l. 18s. and 7l. the property of Henry Barber, his master— [Pleaded guilty. See original trial image.] Judgment Respited.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-364
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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364. JAMES JENKINS(22) , Breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Robert James Blythe, and stealing 24 dozen canvas bags.

Another count, for receiving the same.

MR. RAVEN. Prosecuted.

ARTHUR BARTON . (City Detective). On the. 14th March, about 9.15, I was on duty in St. Mary Axe—I saw the prisoner in conversation with three other men—he had a barrow with a large case on it—I followed them from St. Mary Axe, through Houndsditch into Skinner Street, where the prisoner stopped his barrow to rest—I heard him say he had done it bleeding clean—I passed him to get assistance—when I spoke to him they all ran away—I ran after the prisoner and brought him back, and with assistance took him to the station—he asked me what was the matter—he afterwards said he was hired by two men to take the barrow to Aldersgate Street Station—in the case were 24 dozen sacks.

ALFRED HUNT . (City Policeman 967). I was on duty in St. Mary Axe about 8.30 p.m.—I tried the padlock of 10, Bury Street; it was all right—I tried it half an hour later; the lock was forced and the door open—I told the sergeant and he examined the premises.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I did not see you loitering about there.

ROBERT JAMES BLYTHE I am a wholesale clothier, of 21, Whitecross Street—I have a warehouse at 10, Bury Street, St. Mary Axe—a case

was shown to me—I have seen part of the contents—they are mine, this sack is mine—there was about 17l. worth—the case had been in my warehouse three or four days before—the goods were sold but not delivered—the warehouse is not opened every day.

FREDERICK HAZELDINE . I am manager to Mr. Blythe—I was in this warehouse on the previous Friday, the 11th—I was the last person who left the premises—I saw the case safely in the passage—I closed the door, put the padlock on, and looked it.

Prisoner's Defence. I was standing in Houndsditch out of employment, when two gentlemen asked me to pull a barrow for 2s. They took me to a public-house and gave me half a pint of ale and twopennyworth of bread. When I rested with the barrow, the policeman asked me where I was going; I said I was going to take it to Aldersgate Street.

GUILTY of receiving. He also PLEADED GUILTY to a conviction of felony in March, 1879.— Two Years' Imprisonment.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-365
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Not Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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365. FREDERICK COOPER (60) and FREDERICK COOPER the younger (13), Stealing a sheep, the goods of Richard Henry Cox.

MR. WILLES Prosecuted.

ALFRED DEAL (Policeman A R 413). On the 4th March, about 9 p.m., I was riding over Uxbridge Common in a direction from Uxbridge—about 200 yards from the field where the sheep were folded I heard a whistle twice, and at the same time a rattle of a cart—I met the prisoners; we said "Good night," and passed on—the noise of the cart stopped—I put my horse on the greensward—I heard a scuffle at the gate as if something was being lifted into the cart—when that was over the pony went in the direction of Uxbridge—I galloped after them and stopped the cart—I asked the father what he had in his cart—he said "Nothing but two or three sacks"—I got in the cart—I struck a light and saw a fat sheep—I asked him where he got it from—he said "It is no use telling any lies about it, I took it out of that field"—I took him to the station—the sheep was identified by Mr. Cox as being his sheep.

Cross-examined by the elder Prisoner. You did not say that you found the sheep on the side of the road, and were going to take it to the station.

HENRY ROBERTS . I am steward to Mr. Cox—on the 4th instant I received information and went to the police-station—I saw the prisoner—I identified the sheep by a private mark which we have upon all that belong to Mr. Cox.

Prisoner's Defence. It was lying on the side of the road, and I was going to take it to the station when the policeman asked me what I had got. I said "Some coal sacks," which was true.

FREDERICK COOPER the elder— GUILTY He also PLEADED GUILTY to a conviction of felony in March, 1872, at Aylesbury.— Five Years' Penal Servitude.


28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-366
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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366. HENRY ARCHER(34) , Stealing a portmanteau, the goods of John Washington.

MR. CROOME. Prosecuted.

GEORGE CANDLE I live at 19, Beresford Street, Camberwell—I am assistant to John Thomas Washington, 11, Talbot Court, Gracechurch Street—on Monday, 21st, I was in the shop—I saw the prisoner pass the

door shortly before 5 o'clock—I saw him take a portmanteau off two others, and he knocked two down in doing so—he was walking away with it when I stopped him—he threw it down—I told him he had been stealing a portmanteau—he said he knocked it down in going by—this is the portmanteau (produced)—the prisoner was intoxicated.

ELY HEATH (City Policeman 829). The prisoner was given into my custody by Candle—this bag was lying in the road; I took possession of it—the prisoner was drunk—I asked his address, he refused to give it it me, but gave it the next morning.

Prisoner's Defence. I was too drunk over night, and I gave my address as soon as I was able. I had been to Billingsgate, and had been drinking heavily. If I stole the portmanteau I did not know what I was doing.


THIRD COURT.—Wednesday and Thursday, March 30th and 31st 1881,

Before Mr. Recorder.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-367
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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367. SAMUEL HENRY WORKMAN EDWARDS (21) , Unlawfully obtaining by false pretences from Edward Harrison, pottage labels of the value of 6s. 6d. and 6s. 6d. in money, with intent to cheat and defraud.


CAPTAIN THOMAS BENT . I am chief constable of Exeter—I received on 12th March a warrant for the arrest of the prisoner, signed by Sir James Ingham, and on 17th I went with two officers to the prisoners house; I remained in the street—as soon as the prisoner saw the officers I saw him jump out at the top window, a distance of about 20 feet, into a place called Paragon Place—he then ran round a distance of about 50 yards into South Street—I stopped him—he had no trade of his own of any kind; he lived at 32, Magdala Street, his mother's house was at 4, Mermaid Yard, Somers Town—I took him by train to London—he said "Can you toll me, Captain Bent, how many cases they are going to bring against me?"—I said "I only know of one at present, that is named in the warrant, Harrison, of Middlesex"—he said "There are other cases I fear"—he also said "How much do you think I shall get?"—I said "I do not know."

EDWARD HARRISON . I live at 28, Villiers Street, Strand—about 10th November last I put an advertisement in the Exchange and Mart—I received this letter from 32, Magdala Street, Exeter, of November 29th. (This was signed S. H. Edwards, stating that he had a portfolio with 38 plates deposited by a lady, which he would tend on the receipt of P.O.O. for 13s. 6d.)—I wrote an answer, and received another from the same address of 7th December (Enclosing a list of plates for sale)—the next I received was dated 9th December (Offering to till further plates and the Life of Grimalds)—this last letter was in reference to another advertisement—I sent stamps for 6s. 6d. on the 10th or 11th December for the book of Grimaldi; I never received it—I never got my stamps back—I sent the stamps believing I should get the book, and believing that the man was respectable.

CHARLES COWARD . I live at No. 1, Peabody's Buildings, Pimlico—in December I advertised in the Exchange and Mart for sporting picture—on 10th December I received this letter signed S. H. Edwards, 32, Magdala Street, Exeter. (Offering an old oil painting in carved ozk flame in good condition, belonging to a lady in reduced circumstances)—I replied, and

subsequently received other letters—I sent a P.O.O. for 16s.; I never received the picture—I sent the money believing that I should receive it, and supposing the prisoner to be a bookseller and stationer.

PHILIP SHRIVES . (Police Sergeant E). On 19th March, about 3.15 p.m., I was in Bow Street Station—I saw the prisoner there; I said "You will be charged with obtaining 6s. 6d. from Mr. Harrison through an advertisement in the Exchange and Mart"—he said "Yes"—outside the Court, and previous to going before the Magistrate, he said "What shall I get for this?"—I said "I cannot say, as Captain Bent has informed me there are several cases against you"—he said "I know nothing about any other cases."

CHARLES WILLIAM LING . I live at Peabody's Buildings, Southwark Street—I advertised in the Exchange and Mart in December last—I received this letter dated 19th December, from 32, Magdala Street, Exeter, and signed S. H. Edwards. (Enclosing list of brooch at prices marked by the lady to whom they were said to belong, also two names as references)—I subsequently received several letters from him—I sent by registered letter 1l. 2s. in money—the books were a Dictionary of Arts and Sciences, and some of Dickens's works—I never received any books nor my money back—I sent my money because I was satisfied with the references, and I believed I should get the books.

EDWIN BUTLER . (Post Office Constable). I produce a money-order issued at the Pimlico S.W. District Office on 20th December, 1880, numbered 15719, for 16s., and the receipt signed S. H. Edwards—it was paid at Exeter on 21st December—I also produce a receipt for a registered letter addressed S. H. Edwards, Esq., 32, Magdala Street, Exeter, purporting to be signed by S. H. Edwards on 31st December.

Prisoner's Defence. I am deeply sorry for what I have committed. I broke the pledge, which I kept for 19 years, or I should not have committed it.

GUILTY . It was stated that 20 other cases could be proved against him. Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-368
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

368. ELTON JOSEPH GREENWAY [Indicted with JAMES DE CAVILLE , not in custody], for unlawfully obtaining by false pretences from Frederick Abingdon a cheque for 150l. with intent to defraud. Second Count, conspiring with James de Caville to obtain 400l. from Frederick Abingdon. Third Count, conspiring with De Caville to defraud Frederick Abingdon.



FREDERICK ABINGDON . I live at 3, Askew Crescent, Shepherd's Bush—until the last year or two I was a master mariner—in the latter part of November my attention was called to an advertisement in the Daily Telegraph—I was then the owner of a public-house—I resided at Cranley, in Kent, with my brother, who is also a licensed victualler; he came up with my approval, to see about the advertisement—he reported to me on the matter—I went with him to the offices of Messrs. Greenway and Karslake, at 102, Tottenham Court Road—the defendant Greenway is a member of that firm—we saw him there—he said the house in Grosvenor Street was to be sold for 400l. "all at"—I knew the meaning of that term—I cut the advertisement put of the paper—he said two years and a

half were unexpired—the brewers were Messrs. Watney, of Pimlico—I then went with my brother to the Admiral Rodney's Head in Robert Street, Grosvenor Square—I went over the house with the exception of one room; I went into the upstairs parlour—Greenway introduced me to Mr. Hands—I had noticed the name of Hands on the door—Greenwood said there was a brother-in-law of Hands named Hands, who either kept a public-house or was owner—Hand's name was not mentioned till I was introduced—I think De Caville referred to the brother-in-law on the 4th December—I have since known that Henry Hands was De Caville—I found that out on the 20th December—De Caville said that he did not care whether he sold the place at all unless he got 400l.; that he had been advised to go into the country to recruit his health—he was an invalid, and could not get out of his chair, and he had not been in the bar for seven months—I saw him in the chair—an agreement was drawn up—Greenway took it from his pocket or from a black bag—this is the agreement (produced)—that is my signature—De Caville signed here "Henry Hands"—(The agreement was dated December 4, 1880, between Henry Hands, of the Admiral Rodney's Head, Robert Street, and Frederick Abingdon, of 358, City Road, Islington, for the purchase at 400l. the trade, fixtures, effects, and goodwill of the Admiral Rodney's Head, Abingdon to pay 50l. deposit to Greenway as agent). Having signed that my brother and I left the house—before that I signed an I O U for 149l., and paid 1l. deposit—I employed Greenway as my agent, not knowing enough about public-houses—the I O U was a deposit on the house—I have not seen it since—I paid the cheque over on the 7th December—it was payable to Hands—I cannot remember the appearance of it—it was put into Greenway's left-hand coat pocket—my brother and I called on Greenway on the 7th December, by an arrangement which was made at Charing Cross Station, where we had come from Cranley—we met there an hour later—about midday on the 6th I handed him this cheque for 150l. (Dated 6th December, National Provincial Bank of England, payable to F. Abingdon or order, and endorsed Frederick Abingdon and J. Abingdon.) That was to retire the I O U—my brother asked for the I O U in my presence—Greenway said "That I retain," or words to that effect—he did not give it to me—he gave me the cheque back, and said it was no good to him, as he should not be able to cash it for three or four days—I put it back in my pocket and gave him another—that was on the 7th, in the Admiral Rodney's Head—he accepted it—my brother said something to Greenway about deceiving the brewers—Greenway said the house was not to be sold for 250l., but for 400l., and that Mr. De Caville did not intend to sell the place unless he got that for it—the alteration of the first agreement was by Greenway—I cannot tell what he said, because he was talking to my brother—the substance of it was to go down to the brewers at Pimlico and tell them—he said "I shall have to tell them I have given 250l."—I said I would not do it—De Caville said it was because he had to deceive Henry Hands, his brother-in-law—he did not wish his brother-in-law to know the amount the house sold for—I had some conversation with my brother after Greenway left; then we went to Greenway's office—my brother went in the room first and said "My brother does not feel inclined to deceive the brewers, and he wishes to let them know the truth," or something to

that effect—Greenway said "All right, we had better go down and tell Mr. Hands"—he said he had plenty more houses, and would drive round to look at one more—we went to the Admiral Rodney's Head; I saw the same man sitting in the same chair—I cannot remember the words; two or three of us talked together—Greenway said he wanted a further agreement made, because he would not deceive the brewers—De Caville said if I would take the house another agreement could be drawn up for 250l., and he would throw in the room of furniture—Greenway had said "What will you do? we may as well throw in the room of furniture"—De Caville said "Very well, we will do that"—that was an upstairs room that we were in—the agreement was "all at"—I understood the furniture was included before—a new agreement was then produced by Greenway, who filled it up in my presence—that was signed by me and by Mr. De Caville in the name of Henry Hands. (The agreement was to purchase the house for 250l., and to pay 25 l . deposit, dated 7th December.) Mrs. De Caville, whom I knew as Mrs. Hands, and Greenway got into one hansom cab and I got into another and drove to Watney's, and we saw Mr. Robinson—before we saw him Greenway told me not to speak, as he knew more about houses than I did—although I am a freeholder and keep a public-house I have never done anything but being at sea—Greenway said he would manage the-business for me, as Mr. Robinson was a very particular gentleman—the agreement for the 250l. was produced by Greenway; he handed it to Mr. Robinson—Mr. Robinson looked at Greenway and said "You have got two and a half years here, the lease is something like 16 or 17 months"—Greenway looked at me and said "Oh, that will be all right"—Mrs. De Caville stood by and said "When we went into the house we understood the lease was unexpired three and a half years, and we have been there 12 months"—Mr. Robinson was the first person I learnt the time of the lease from—he asked Greenway if he thought the house was worth 250l., and said "Is there enough furniture?"—it is usual to buy the house, goodwill, furniture, and fixtures—Greenway said in answer to that, "Ample"—we then left—Greenway said he could procure a lease from the Duke of Westminster, as he knew the coachman, or, he could put me in the way of getting a lease when the Duke came to town—I saw Greenway again at the Admiral Bodney's Head on the 15th December—my wife was then in London, and went with me—she remained downstairs—I went upstairs with the man I understood to be Henry Hands—Greenway made out some papers; two of them I signed—he said he acted as my agent, and I did as I was told—I know my own signature—this is an authority to pay over 150J. (Dated December 15, 1880.) This is the other paper. (Same date, an I O U for 25l.) I believe that 25l. was for expenses—before signing these papers I had had a glass of something which tasted like sherry; it was out of a black bottle, produced by a small boy—De Caville asked me to drink; they drank claret out of another bottle—I was perfectly sober when I went upstairs—I felt what I drank go to my head; I felt very queer—I knelt down on my knee at the table to sign the papers, I think—I remember my wife coming in and asking me what I was doing; she said "I thought you had no papers to sign"—I said it was all right—we then went away—I went again on the 20th to make the change by the appointment of Greenway by telegram sent to me at Cranley—it was first arranged for the 18th; then I received the telegram on the 17th,

putting it off till the Monday afternoon; that would be the 20th—I went up in consequence of that telegram; I took the balance of the purchasemoney in my pocket—Mr. Wilcox, the outdoor manager of the brewery, attended—in Greenway's presence he asked me whether I had given more for the house than 250l.—I said "I have given 400l."—he said "I cannot allow the change to take place until I have seen Messrs. Watney"—about 12 people were talking at once—I cannot remember what, was said—at that time the right Hands were in the house; I did not see the real Hands; I was told he was downstairs—De Caville was not there—I knew De Caville was not Hands, on the 20th; Green way never told me so before—I afterwards consulted my solicitors, Messrs. Willoughby and Cox—on the 22nd Mr. Willoughby went to Greenway's office—I went to the Admiral Rodney's Head; I found a man in possession—under Mr. Willoughby's advice I left the whole matter—I do not remember this receipt.

Cross-examined. Greenway advised me to see my solicitor, in a letter that was' handed to me before we went to Greenway's office—I had seen my solicitor—I saw Greenway hand over to Mr. Willoughby some papers—I cannot say if the receipt was shown him—I said I was the first person to make an alteration in the house; the word "price" was not used—Greenway was the first who mentioned the alteration—he mentioned it in the tram—I mean I spoke of it first inside the house—I have been twenty years at sea—I have had to attend to the ship's accounts—I have said I managed my brother's public-house—I have not said I had been a licensed victualler in the Colonies—I am the owner of three public-houses; one is where they sell milk and eggs, another a butcher's, and at the third they sell liquor; they are all public-houses that any one can enter; not private houses—a shop is a public-house—I own the Prince's Head, Westminster—I have my own gauger; he is Mr. Legg, of Farningham and Guildford; he is an experienced man—I may have looked over the brewers' book hurriedly—I cannot remember any figures—my brother having been in a public-house himself I left the matter to him—the books were produced at the Admiral Rodney's Head, and my brother looked over them—I did not converse with him as to the amount of trade that was done—I was not going into the house—my manageress, Mrs. Jennings, was to be there—she was in the bar-parlour with my wife on the 20th December—I cannot speak to dates; I may have sworn I found it out on the 15th, but I believe it was the 20th—the I O.U. was for 149l. in the first instance, not 49l.—he asked for a sovereign and put it in his pocket—I did not go to the brewers' between the 4th and 7th December—the agreement was altered before we went on the 7th; the conversation about it took place at the Admiral Rodney's Head about 12 o'clock in the day—De Caville said he owed his brother-in-law some money, and he did not want him to know how much he sold the house for, and that it would be just the same to me if I gave 250l. for the house and 150l. for the furniture—at the brewers', upon Mr. Robinson pointing out what the term was, Mr. De Caville immediately said "It was represented as three and a half years, and we have been there nearly a twelvemonth"—I do not remember Mr. Robinson saying I Was free, nor my saying that I would go on—after some one had said "Do you go on?" I nodded my head I believe—I

do not know when the house was shut up—a man was in possession on the 23rd—I never heard of an arrangement that the house should be sold for the amount of the rent due, and that my 150l. should be paid—the case was on at the police-court on the 5th, 12th, and 19th February—I may hare had a glass of something after I signed—Mr. Wilcox was not there on the 20th—upon my saying I did not want to deceive the brewers, Greenway did not say "We had better go and see Mr. Hands at once"—he spoke of several houses being on his books—I went and saw one; I objected to that because I leaned it was a betting-house; I think Greenway told me so—I requested to have early possession because I should have to get in spirits, a large amount of which I was told would be sold at Christmas—I did not press it on—my manageress is no relation; she went on the evening of the 20th to go into possession.

Re-examined. She went for the purpose of staying on the 20th—I expected to complete then; I had had, half a pint of bitter before I went there; I was quite sober—it was after Greenway said it would be all right that I said I would go on—I did not say half a dozen words in the presence of Mr. Robinson—I never saw De Caville but at the Admiral Rodney's Head—Green way was the first person who suggested the second agreement—the cheque for 150l. was given to retire the I.O.U.—my wife first told me that De Caville was not Hands—I have not had anything to do with the management of public-houses—I had never had a transaction with a public-house broker before this one—Greenway put the letter advising me to see my solicitor into my hand at the hotel door; that was after I had been seen driving from my hotel to see him—I had been to see him in the same cab.

JOHN ABINOGON . I am a brother of the last witness—I am a jobmaster—in November last I was a licensed victualler, carrying on business at Cranley, Kent—Frederick Abinger was then staying with me—in consequence of an advertisement in the Daily Telegraph I came up to town and saw the defendant at his office at the end of November—I had a conversation with him about the house—he said it was sold, but there would be a chance of its being sold again, as the man was an invalid—the price mentioned in the advertisement was 400l.—I looked over the house on that occasion, but only enough to carry a kind of sketch to my brother—on 4th December I came up with my brother to the defendant's office—Greenway said the lease was about two and a half years; that Watneys were the owners and Mr. Hands the tenant—I then went with my brother to the Admiral Rodney's Head; Greenway introduced me upstairs to Mr. Hands—he said "This is Mr. Hands"—I know now that person was not Mr. Hands; it was De Caville—De Caville said he was not particular about selling it unless he obtained 400l. for it; that he had not teen in the bar for many months, and could not attend to the business—I saw the agreement produced and signed on the 4th—the purchase money was recited in that agreement as 400l.—I saw De Caville sign it as Henry Hands—I saw the I.O.U. for 25l., also an I.O.U. for 50l. I believe 49l. and a sovereign passed; my brother signed the I.O.U.—I cannot be certain who wrote them—I have not seen the I.O.U. for 49l. since—on the 6th December Greenway came down to my house; on 7th we came up to town together—my lawyer gave my brother the cheque produced; it was put down on the table by my brother; Greenway

picked it up—it is for 150l.; it was a deposit; the I.O.U. was asked for by my brother—Greenway said "I have got that; it is in my bag; it is all right"—he did not give back the I.O.U.—Hands said he did not want his brother to find out the price of the house—he proposed making another agreement for 250l.—I left Greenway at Charring Gross station—I and my brother had some conversation, afterwards on the same day we went to Greenway's office—I said my brother did not care to deceive the brewers, and he would not do it—Greenway said "All right, it does not matter, you will not have the house, that is all; we will go and tell them so"—we then went to the Rodney's Head and I saw De Caville—I asked Greenway to hand me back the deposit money—he said "Oh, no!" and alluded to having the power to make my brother fulfil the contract—we then went and saw De Caville at the Rodney's Head—it was proposed that the room of furniture should be left; it was private property, and it was arranged that my brother should pay 150l. for the furniture and 250l. for the house, therefore another agreement was drawn out—I saw this second agreement drawn up and signed—I saw the furniture; it was in the room where we were—we then went back to the brewers in separate cabs—while waiting; to see Mr. Robinson, Greenway said to my brother "You need not speak, I will make it all right; I will arrange myself"—the agreement for 250l. was produced to Mr. Robinson—Mr. Robinson said the lease was wrongly stated in the agreement—Greenway said to my brother in a low whisper, "All right, I can get a lease from the Duke of Westminster"—I had heard Greenway say that at the Rodney's Head—it was said on two occasions—he said that the Duke was issuing new leases to all his tenants but not to the brewers—Mr. Robinson asked my brother if he thought there was that value of furniture there; Greenway said he thought there was—I then left the brewers with my brother—on the 20th I went with my brother to complete the change—Mr. Wilcox, the brewers' collector, was there; he asked my brother if he was giving more than 250l. for the house—my brother said "Yes; I have given 400l. for it"—Mr. Wilcox said "Then I cannot confirm the change"—I saw Mrs. Caville; I believed her to be Mrs. Hands—my brother has been at sea since he was thirteen years old—I am sure he has no experience in the purchase of public-houses.

Cross—examined. I had no conversation with the De Cavilles—I have not spoken to the brewers—Mr. Greenway spoke of De Caville as Mr. Hands—the landlord, Hands, said he wanted to conceal the price from his brother-in-law—I saw De Caville sitting in a chair, looking like an invalid; he was always introduced to me as Mr. Hands, not as the landlord only—we thought we were dealing with honourable men—I am sure I saw the sovereign paid—I do not think I said the I O U was for 149l. if I did that is a mistake—my brother was looking at the books; I was looking over his shoulder; I saw them at the same time, anyhow—they were books of takings—my brother did not mention the amount to me; I did not take sufficient notice of it—I did not go into detail—I do not know whether my brother satisfied himself as to the takings—Mrs. Jennings was to be the manageress; she was a publican's widow; she was a friend of my brother's—I first saw her at the Rodney's Head on the day of the change; she had not been there before that, to my knowledge—Mrs. De Caville, whom I believed to be Mrs. Hands, was there only once; Mr. Greenway was there then—that would be about the 10th

December—I spoke to her as Mrs. Hands, and she never denied it; I have never seen her since the night the change was to take place—Greenway said there were three public-houses to look at—we went to look at one before going to the brewers at all—Green way said that 150l. was to be paid separately for the furniture, and 250l. for the house—I do not remember De Caville saying it; he might have said lots of things—I did not see the I O U destroyed—I never saw my brother press Greenway for any agreement at all—he did not say the cheque had been paid over to Hands—I was not shown the cheque—Mrs. De Caville said "The least was for 3 1/2 years, and we have been here nearly 12 months;" Mr. Robinson said "I cannot help that, it is only 16 months"—Mr. Robinson said "Do you wish to go on?" I cannot remember what my brother said—I was not sufficiently versed in the matter to know that we need not have had anything more to do with it—Greenway said he was going to put my brother in the way of getting a lease from the Duke of West minster; I know nothing about the coachman—I understood from my brother there was an arrangement with the brewers that they should allow the change, and that 150l. was to come out of the purchase money—I cannot say when that was alluded to—I do not know when the house was sold.

Re-examined. I understood that the cheque was to retire the I O U, and that the I O U should be returned—I have not seen it since—there was an I O U presented at the police-court—I never heard of its being destroyed—Mr. Greenway first of all introduced me to De Caville as Mr. Hands—I first learned De Caville was not Hands on the night the change was to take place—I never heard it from Greenway—Greenway never told me he had been mistaken—I did not see De Caville on the 20th or afterwards.

ANNIE ABINGDON . I am the wife of Frederick Abingdon—on 15th December I went with him to the Admiral Rodney's Head—Greenway was there; we met him at the door—a person was introduced to me as Hands, whom I afterwards found was De Caville—Greenway introduced me to Mrs. De Caville as Mrs. Hands—I remained with Hands or De Caville downstairs—she asked me if I would take a cup of tea—my husband went upstairs with Greenway; my husband was perfectly sober; he had a share of a pint of bitter with me at one o'clock that morning—he bad come from Brighton—after half an hour I went upstairs—Mrs. De Caville wished me to look over the house; I said "No, I am going where my husband is"—he was in a kneeling position, signing an I O U for 25l.; I saw it distinctly; I said "What are you about, Fred? You told me you had no papers to sign;" my husband said "Oh, that is all right;" I said "I am not sure that it is all right;" Mr. Greenway said "Your husband perfectly understands what he is about, Mrs. Abingdon;" I said "I do not know so much about that, my husband told me he had no papers to sign"—I saw Mr. Greenway fold it and put it into his waistcoat pocket or bag, I am not sure which—I saw another document on the table; I could not say what it was—I said "Fred, you told me you had no papers to sign; you were perfectly sober when you left me, but now you are quite muddled, what is the meaning of this?" he did appear to be muddled—I saw a black sherry bottle on the table and a glass by the side of it, standing on a draught-board—there was but one glass out of the bottle—after I came in my husband had a little spirit'

it was filled from the bar; it was brandy or gin—I went away with Mr. Greenway and my husband—my husband asked him if he knew of a respectable hotel, and he told him of one—I told my husband it was a pity the lease was for so short a time; Greenway said "So much the better, when the lease is out we shall be able to renew it from the Duke of Westminster, and you will have less rent to pay"—Mrs. Hands had told me it was for three years, and they had been there for 11 or 12 months—my husband said "Did you have any of that sherry?" and he told me he had had but one glass; that was before he had the spirits, and after he had done signing—he had only the spirits in my presence—I first heard that Mrs. Hands was Mrs. De Caville on the 15th, but I did not know this sort of thing was going to turn out, or I should have spoken of it before—I spoke to my husband on the 20th—this interview on the 15th was the first I had with the prisoner.

Cross-examined. I was living with my husband between the 15th and 20th, seeing him all day, sitting in the same room with him, and going out with him—I heard Mrs. De Caville's came from Mrs. De Caville herself—I should have told my husband before, but I thought it was of no consequence—I am not aware that my husband takes any more than any other gentleman who lives an independent life—he did not break a bottle on my head, or on any part of my body—the manageress was Mrs. Jennings—I have known her since she was a child—I have been married two years, and have no business to attend to—I was not a barmaid—I was manageress for about three or four years—I did serve in the bar—I have had some experience of the takings in a public-house—I cannot tell you what the profits were—I did not ask my husband before going to the brewers what the house was worth—he did not tell me—I did not know he had looked over the books—I was recovering from an illness, and was not in a fit state to attend to business—we were not going to live at the public-house—I did not mention to the Magistrate about the spirits being brought from the bar—I was not asked—I spoke of one bottle—there were other glasses—I saw a glass that contained claret—I was not asked about claret before the Magistrate—my husband had come from Cranley that morning, and from Brighton over night—he had not taken too much—we went to Mr. Greenway's office in a cab—I believe Mr. Greenway was to have managed the business, in reference to the house—I said before the Magistrate, I did not know Hands was De Caville till the 20th—I had not seen him before—Mr. Greenway said he wanted small change to pay the small accounts—I was present when Mr. Wilcox was in the house—Mrs. De Caville told me, if it was not a genuine transaction, Mr. Wilcox would not allow the change to take place—she did not direct her conversation exactly to me—there were others in the room—I have not seen Mr. De Caville since the 20th.

Re-examined. I never saw Hands till the 20th.

HENRT WILLIAM WILLOUGHBY I am a member of the firm of Willoughby and Cox, 13, Clifford's Inn—I was first consulted by Mr. Frederick Abingdon in this matter a day or two before Christmas—I went with him to the defendant's office in Tottenham Court Road—I had some conversation with him—he showed me these two agreements (produced) and a valuation, or rather inventory, in a book of account made out for settlement—I observed there was a different signature to one document—I called his attention to it—De Caville had signed the name of Hands—it

was said the furniture belonged to De Caville—I was also told that the purchase was to be completed that afternoon, and if Mr. Abingdon was not in attendance, he was to forfeit something and be liable to damages—I went to the Admiral Rodney's Head at the time appointed—Mr. Greenway was there, and a female whom Mr. Abingdon seemed to know as Mrs. De Caville—I asked where Hands was, and was told he was not there—the lady said he was in the country—when I pressed for his address she gave it to me—I found a man in possession—I said to the woman "There is a man in possession for rent at this moment"—she said there was—after some conversation, I advised my client not to complete the matter, and left with him—I asked Greenway for the 150l. deposit back—he said he would not do it—he said Mr. Abingdon might have his furniture, and take it away for the 150l.—I had seen the furniture—on the same day I wrote this formal letter to the defendant (Requesting repayment of the 150l., the return of the I O U, and a receipt for the furniture.)—I never received the I O U—I think Greenway said he had given the 150l. to De Caville, and then produced Hands's receipt.

Cross-examined. He gave me a copy of the agreement—I have no recollection of his telling me he had taken the precaution to have Hands's endorsement on the cheque—Greenway said Hands ratified De Caville's acts, or something of the kind—he also explained that he had not discovered De Caville was not Hands till the 15th December—he said he should expect to be paid, and there was some conversation about that—I thought he was the agent of the vendor—he said the brewers would not go on—he said Mr. Abingdon was in default.

Re-examined. I never saw the brewers—the letter advising Mr. Abingdon to see a solicitor was dated 21st December—no doubt I kept it—it was addressed to Gard's Hotel.

MARTIN EDEN ROBINSON . I am manager to Messrs. Watney and Co., brewers—the Admiral Rodney's Head belonged to them—in November, 1879, it was purchased by Mr. De Caville from a Mr. Ellis—after the purchase by De Caville I found the license was transferred to Hands—De Caville requested that Hands should be accepted as tenant, and he was accepted; in December he was our tenant—I remember Mr. Abingdon, his brother, and Mr. Greenway coming to see me about the transfer on 7th December—the agreement for the sale from Hands to Abingdon for 250l. was shown to me; I did not see the agreement for 400l.; I had not heard of it at that time—I called Mr. Abingdon's attention to the term of the lease being only about a year and a half—Greenway was the principal spokesman—he asked Mr. Abingdon if he would go on; Mr. Abingdon considered, and then, in answer to my question, he said he would go on with it—Greenway's name and business were brought in to me at first by a clerk—I asked Greenway or Abingdon the price of the furniture; I do not recollect the answer—Mr. Wilcox attended afterwards to the transfer—a day or two after the appointment to transfer, Hands had notice to quit—the house was afterwards transferred and sold to Mr. Harris for 80l., including the furniture, "all at," as it is called.

Cross-examined. I think the brewers take the lease direct from the Duke of Westminster—I cannot say for how long the lease was—I have been in the brewery six or seven years—the agreements are conditional upon the brewers accepting the tenant—De Caville paid 225l. for the

lease—I know Hands was in business at Croydon; he was distinctly our tenant—I do not know that De Caville increased the value of the business; people do take public-houses, improve the business, occupy for a short tune, and sell for a larger sum—Abingdon had every opportunity of deciding whether he should go on or not—as far as I saw, Mr. Greenway acted as broker—I believe I knew him by sight, I am not sure—I gave directions to put in an execution, I think in January—there was an arrangement that if the house was sold, half the amount claimed should go to Mr. Abingdon; that was promised to Mr. Hands.

Re-examined. I did not know 150l. had been paid as deposit on this house—if I had known the price of the house was 400l. the matter would have stood upon a different footing.

HENRY WILCOX . I am senior collector at Messrs. Watney's—on the 20th December I attended at the Admiral Rodney's Head to carry out the transfer; I saw Frederick Abingdon, Green way, Henry Hands, and Mrs. De Caville—Abingdon asked to speak to me in private; I said I preferred to speak in public; Greenway said "It is all right, Mr. Wilcox, here is the agreement"—Abingdon was out of temper—Greenway produced the agreement to purchase for 250l.—I said "This agreement, Mr. Abingdon, appears to be perfectly correct, have you given any more?" he said "I have"—I said "What are you giving for it?" he said "400l."—Greenway said "Yes, it is perfectly right, Mr. Wilcox"—I replied to Mr. Abingdon that he had no right to give any more, and that he had done wrong—he said "Here is the receipt for 150l., it was for this room of furniture;" that was the room we were in—the goods were enumerated; they were purchased of Mr. Ellis—I said to Greenway "These things appear to be worth nearer 15l. than 150l.;" Greenway said "That is a matter between themselves," or words to that effect—I said "My instructions are that the price was 250l., and not 400l., and I must consult Messrs. Watney before I allow the thing to go on"—I consulted them the next morning—the next day (the 21st) a distress was put in for rent; the man remained in possession till the place was let to Mr. Harris—Mr. Harris paid 80l., "all at"—15l. was, I should think, about the value of the furniture—I remember the house being purchased by De Caville from Mr. Ellis for 225l., "all at;" it was worth about that as a going concern.

Cross-examined. The sale for 80l. was in February—on 21st January notice to quit was given to Hands; at that time 27l. 10s. was due for arrears of rent up to the Christians quarter—the house was closed about six weeks before we sold it—we received about 50l. or 60l. for rent when De Caville took it from Ellis—the debt to Watney's upon the house was about 130l.—De Caville had increased the indebtedness to the firm; he owes about 120l.—I went to see how the business went on every 28 days—the house was doing in the way of trade from 30l. to 35l. a week; that would be in the takings of all lands—the brewers' payments were about 42l. a month; the distillers' and pale ale brewers' would bring it up to considerably more, but not to 100l. a month—I had no idea Hands was in difficulties—I would not allow the change to go through unless everybody got their money ready—I postponed the change, for inquiries—up to the time of my leaving the Admiral Rodney's Head Mr. Abingdon said he was quite willing to go on.

Re-examined. I first knew of 150l. deposit, on the afternoon of the

change; that was from Mr. Abingdon himself—we had been told an untruth in the matter; that is why we put a man in possession—the untruth was the statement that the price was 250l., instead of 400l.

FREDERICK ABINGDON . (Re-examined). This is the letter which was put into my hand on 21st about 5 p.m. (From Greenway, suggesting that Mr. Abingdon should see a solicitor.) I do not remember the advertisement; I cannot say whether the one produced is it.

Cross-examined. I do not recognise the exact language; I did not recognise it at the police-court.

HENRY HANDS . I live at No. 3, Oxford Terrace, Addiscombe Road, Croydon—I am a tailor—De Caville is my wife's brother—the license for the Admiral Kodney's Head was earned out in my name, and the house was transferred in my name—De Caville asked me to allow him to have the house in my name as a favour—I first heard of the transfer to Abingdon about 14th December—I received a letter from De Caville, in consequence of which I came up to town and saw him—I had a conversation with him; I returned home, and came up again on the 17th—I saw Green, way and De Caville—Greenway asked me to sign a cheque which had been made out in my name—this is the cheque (produced)—I endorsed it. (Dated 17th December, pay Henry Hands or order 150l., signed Greenway and Karslake.) Greenway went away for the money; he returned in about two hours—120l. was put down on the table in paper—De Caville counted it and put it in his pocket—I did not see the other 30l.—on the previous Tuesday De Caville said he had sold the house for 400l., and that Mr. Abingdon had agreed to pay 150l. for the furniture in one room, because it was desirable that the brewers should not know the house was sold for more than 250l.—I do not know the signature to this agreement—I never gave any one authority to sign my name; I was never asked for it; on the contrary, I was promised that my name should never be used; De Caville promised me that—I signed this document because Greenway and De Caville represented it was necessary, the house being in my name—Green way produced it from his pocket (The receipt for 150l.)—I never received any money at all—the 17th was the first time I saw Greenway.

Cross-examined. I never had more to do with a public-house than in this affair—I am not a churchwarden; I have been verger of a church for the last 12 years—everybody knows me at Croydon—I do not know anything of Mrs. De Caville; I have known De Caville about five years—it was at De Caville's and his wife's request that I lent my name some time in September or October, 1879; the reason for it was he would not be able to use his own name before the next February—I do not know why he could not use it; he did not desire the police to make inquiries he did not say that; I simply understood it was not convenient for him to use his own name—I went to the brewery, but I cannot say who it was I saw there—I was not asked if it was De Caville or Mr. Ellis—I heard the transfer called out when we were before the Justices, "Ellis to Hands"—I did not hear anything further said; I do not remember all that took place—De Caville was outside—Mrs. De Caviile has four children—I saw her on 22nd December; I have seen her ever so many times since—my wife has not kept up a correspondence with her brother—I went to the Rodney's Head on several occasions; I think his wife attended to the business—De Caville was suffering from abscess or fistula; he was about

nine months upstairs—I have not heard of him since this affair turned up—I do not know that De Caville took any furniture into the house—I know he purchased some afterwards for the bedroom upstairs—I have no solicitor—the execution was sent to De Caville—I never stayed in the house three hours at one time—I did not get a notice to quit, and I did not keep on the house after 20th December—I saw De Caville on several occasions when he was too ill to get out of bed—he left the house the night before the change was to have taken place.

JOHN CROW . I am a distraining broker, at 150, Horseferry Road, Westminster—on 21st December I went into possession of the Admiral Rodney's Head; on 28th December part of the furniture was condemned at 33l. 10s.—there was another condemnation under a distress in January, when the price was 34l. 11s., making a total of 68l. 1s. for the furniture, fixtures, and fittings—the value of the front room furniture was about 15l.—I do not know De Caville—there was a tall old man who acted as porter or potman there—I did not see any master of the house.

Cross-examined. There was a lady and her daughter there; I thought it was Mrs. Hands—she carried on the business; I addressed her when I applied for the rent as Mrs. Hands—the name Hands was over the door, and I was to distrain on Hands—I have been a broker 20 years—I did not distrain on Mr. Ellis—I do not know when the house was shut up; I went out on 3rd January—Messrs. Watney gave me orders to withdraw—the subject of the second levy was 27l. 10s.

JOHN HAMMITT KNOTT . I am a member of the firm of Pownall, Cross, and Knott, solicitors to Messrs. Watney—Mr. Greenway had nothing to do with the arrangement which we made with Mr. Hands; that was an arrangement which we made for the benefit of Mr. Abingdon.

Cross-examined. I did not communicate with Mr. Willougby in reference to the written undertaking which was given—I cannot give you the length of the lease; it expired about a year ago.

JOHN ABINGDON . (Re-examined). The advertisement which I saw in the newspaper was similar to the one produced. (Brewers' public, Watney's trade, price 400l., five furnished rooms, &c.) There was no agreement that I should receive 20l. out of this transaction; I never received a farthing.

Cross-examined. It was not mentioned that my expenses should be paid—if I employed a broker it had nothing to do with this case—I did employ one.

GEORGE DUMBRIL . I am ledger clerk at the Tottenham Court Road Branch of the City Bank—Messrs. Greenway and Karalake kept an account there—I produce an examined copy of their account from the 1st to the end of December—I find a payment in of 150l. on 7th December, and a draft payable to Hands on 17th for 150l.

Cross-examined. Greenway opened an account on 10th April, 1880—I have not a copy of the full account; I only gave what was required—he was introduced by one of our customers—the cheque was not cleared till the 11th December—the only cheque was paid out to Mr. Greenway himself in bank notes over the counter—I cannot say what their balance was before the payment of the cheque; at the end of the year it was 139l.

NOT GUILTY . The Jury expressed their disapproval of the loose way in which the business had been transacted.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-369
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-370
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

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Reference Numbert18810328-371
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372. CHARLES WILLIAMS (32) , Feloniously wounding John Deighton, with intent to murder. Other counts, with intent to do grievous bodily harm and to resist and prevent his lawful apprehension.


VISCOUNTESS HARBERTON . I am the wife of Viscount Harberton, and live at 119, Cromwell Road, Kensington—on February 5th, about 9 o'clock, from what I heard I went to my bedrooms—I missed from it my watch and chain; my dressing-case was broken open and broken to pieces, and the silver fittings removed; a cameo brooch was also gone, and about 2l. in money—I had seen the things safe at half-past 7 o'clock—two plated candlesticks also were gone from outside the drawing-room—they had our crest on them—altogether the value of the property taken was about 30l.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. The house had been entered by a door on the leads, on the roof, and the trap-door between that and the ceiling of the top story was wide open—that leads into a passage—a person could drop down there: it would be about 8 or 10 feet—I was told that one of the servants' jackets was taken from one of the upper rooms—my bedroom is below that floor, and below that the drawing-room—one of the servants' jackets was lying in my bedroom, apparently having been brought down—I heard some one go out at the front door about two minutes before I heard the shots in the street.

CHARLOTTE MARY PICKENS . I am parlour-maid in the service of Lady Harberton—on the evening of 5th of February, about 9'o clock, I was at the top of the area steps, and saw a man come out of the front door—the prisoner is that man—I have not the slightest doubt about him—I went up and asked him who he had been to see—he said "One of the servants"—I said "No, indeed, you have not"—he said "Wait here, and I will fetch a policeman"—I said "No, I will fetch one" and I caught hold of his right-hand sleeve—he put his hand in his right-hand coat pocket and took something out—I thought it was a knife at first, but he immediately turned round and fired—he was then about two yards from me—he pointed towards me—he then turned round and ran; I ran after him screaming—he then turned and fired again—he had gone about

three doors—he fired straight at my face—whatever came out of the pistol went over my shoulder; I saw the flash, it came direct into my face—he then turned and ran again—he ran down Courtfield Gardens—I ran after him still screaming—I called out "Police!" and "Murder!" he did not go into the gardens; he ran by the gardens—it is the first road on the left as you come out of 119—I saw some one run across from Gaspar Mews calling "Police!" and I heard another shot fired—I then went back to tell my lady, and told her—I missed some things from the house, among other things two candlesticks; I had seen them on the table outside the drawing-room door—I did not see the prisoner again till he was in custody at King's Cross Police-station.

Cross-examined. Had you been to see one of the servants you would not have come out of the front door—I swear that you fired two shots at me—I let go of you when you pulled something out of your pocket—you said nothing when you fired.

ROBERT HOWROYD (Policeman T 293). Soon after 9 o'clock on the night of the February I was at the corner of Gaspar Mews, Courtfield Gardens—I saw a man running from the Cromwell Road towards St. Jude's Church, and a female following him calling out something, but I did not understand what she said—I immediately ran across the road, and caught him by the left sleeve; I could not say who that man was—I tired to get a firmer hold of him, and while doing so I received a shot in my right side; I was wounded—the shot penetrated my clothes and my flesh; the shot worked from my brace into my right waistcoat pocket—I produce the bullet—the man I had hold of fired that shot—I fell to the ground, dragging him with me—I recovered in a second, and followed him; he broke away from me—I felt pain in my side, and as other persons were pursuing him I left off running—I lost sight of him when he turned to an empty house in Courtfield Gardens—something dropped from him when he fired at me the second time; I did not see what it was—this candlestick was afterwards produced to me by the servant—I did not see it picked up.

Cross-examined. Before hearing the scream I did not hear anything—I was about 40 or 50 yards from 119, Cromwell Road—I was not in sight of the house—if any one had fired a pistol at that distance I certainly should have heard it—I think it very likely; not a doubt of it—I did not hear it—I did not see the servant—I cannot say whether the man saw me as he came round the corner; I caught hold of his left sleeve, and tried to catch hold of him by the collar—he fired from his right hip—the blow from the bullet caused me to fall—I could not say what his intention was—he did not attempt to injure me when I was down; he ran away, and then the second shot was fired—he had then run about 12 or 14 yards—that bullet did not strike me; it passed on the left side of my head—I followed him up afterwards, and saw him go into the empty house—I was then some 40 yards from him—I could not recognise the man—there was no lamp; the place was quite dark—I could not see his features; his back was towards me the whole of the time, and towards the other officers as well, as far as I recollect—I could see 40 yards—I believe the man turned round while he was running in Courtfield Gardens, on the north side, close to the parsonage—I could not say how many shots he fired, all I heard were the two fired at me and another round Courtfield Gardens.

WILLIAM STROUD (Detective Sergeant T). On 5th February, about 9

o'clock, I was in Courtfield Gardens having a conversation with four other constables; I heard a sharp snap, a subdued report, at the of Court-field Gardens, at the other end of Cromwell Road—after that I saw a flash, and heard another report, but the Cromwell Road being dark I could not exactly distinguish the position—I ran down to the place, and when I got as far as Courtfield Gardens I saw as man running close under the railings—I ran after him; there was no one in front of me at that moment—I think subsequently Constable Copper was—I saw the man fire two shots in the direction of Cooper's head—I could see it distinctly; at the same time he said "Come on, I have got some more of you"—those two shots were fired in quick succession—he then fired another shot rather more to his left—he said them "you can have another"—he then turned to the left again, and passed by the vicarage, ad reached St. Jude's Church—I and Copper still pursued him; after that I heard another shot fired; I saw the flash; it appeared to incline towards the centre of the road, to my right—the man then ran a plank leading to an unfinished building on the south side of the gardens—I ran round to the back, and watched, but no one came out—I gave directions to the other officers—the prisoner is the man who fired the shots, and went into the unfinished buildings.

Cross-examined. The first shot I heard was like the crack of a whip—I then saw the man running under the railings, and railings and Howroyd just behind—I had to go about 120 yard after hearings the first shot—when he fired at Cooper he made a momentary stop and half turned—it was dark, but there was a lamp right opposite; he did not stand and fire—there was just sufficient time for me to recognise your face—I was about six yards from you; you fired two shots at Cooper successively—I did not rush in and capture you, for the simple reason that the suddenness of the firing took away our presence of mind at the moment; Cooper was about a yard in front of me—I heard six shots altogether—at the back of the empty houses there is a lot of waste ground, and a stack of bricks about 10 fest high—I did not see anybody come out of the empty houses.

HENRY COOPER (policeman T 483). On the night of 5th February I was on duty in Courtfield Gardens with Sergeant Stroud—I heard a report of firearms from the Cromwell Road, and I saw two more flashes, and heard two more report—I ran towards the spot, and saw the prisoner running towards me, bare-headed—he turned to the right along Court-field Gardens, towards the Collingham Road—I followed him—he turned round and fired—he was then five or six yards from me—I heard the bullet whiz past my left ear—I could not see the pistol—I stooped down and made a forward movement towards him, and said "You coward;" he said "Come on, I have got some more for you, you can have another"—I moved my head on one side, and the bullet whizzed by my right ear—he then ran away again, and turned to the left into the Collingham Road—I followed him closely—I saw Deighton, the letter carrier, cross from the right-hand side of Collingham Road, opposite St. Jude's Church; the prisoner turned round fired again, and Deighton seemed to drop—the prisoner again turned to the left up Courtfield Gardens, and ran up a plank into an unfinished building—I went round to the back—I did not see the prisoner again that night—I afterwards saw him in custody at King's Cross Police-station, with a number of others—I picked him out immediately—I have not the least doubt that he is the man.

By the COURT. With he fired and Deighton dropped, I could not say whether the pistol was fired at him—he seemed to turn round and fire at random at all his pursuers—he could see Deighton.

JOHN DEIGHTON . I am a letter-carrier at West Brompton—on 5th February, about 9 at night, I was delivering letters in Courtfield Gardens—when at the corner of Collinghan Road I heard the report of a revolver coming from the direction of Gaspar Mews—I then distinctly heard another, and then another—I saw a person running round from beyond the vicarage towards me; I was in the middle of the road, between the pillar-box and the church; the man was bare-headed; two between the following him, calling "Stop thief"—I went towards him; he was on the footpath; I saw a flash and heard the report of a revolver, and felt something hit me in the left breast; I was between 20 and 30 yards from him; I did not fall—the man then ran round the corner by the pillar-box, and ran up a plank into an empty house—I was taken to a doctor's and then to the hospital, where I remained three weeks and four days—I am now going to a convalescent home at Eastbourne—I cannot identify the prisoner as the man who about me; the pistol was pointed at me.

WILLIAM HARRISON (Policeman T 557.) On this night I was in company with Cooper—I saw the man running, and followed him with Cooper—he turned into Courtfield Gardens, and fired off a revolver; I could not see who that was aimed at—he then went farther on, and fired again in the direction of Cooper; he aimed straight at him—I saw the postman in Collingham Road, and saw the shot fired at him by the prisoner; I am sure "Come on, I have got some more;" I saw his features perfectly well then.

FREDERICK COBB (Policeman T 263.) I was in Courtfield Gardens, and heard some shots fired—I was two shots fired at Cooper—the prisoner is the man who fired them; he was about five or six yards from him at the time—I also saw the prisoner fire at Deighton, the postman; he was then about 10 or 12 yards from him—I stopped for about a minute to help Deighton, and then ran after the prisoner, but lost sight of him—I afterwards saw him at the Hammersmith Police-station, and picked him out from a number of others.

WILLIAM HENRY FUDGE . I am a letter-carrier, of 2, Millman Street, Chelsen—on 5th February, between 9.30 and 9.45 at night, I was in Bina Gardens, in the neighbourhood of Courtfield Gardens, and saw the prisoner stagger past me with his hand to the left side of his face—I turned round and noticed him; he had the same sort of clothes that he has on now; there was mud upon them—he went down Bina Gardens, in the direction of Thistle Grove; he had no hat on.

Cross-examined. I did not see where you came from, but you must have come from the direction of the occurrence, because there was no other way—you were between two lamp-posts; you were crossing the road—there was no one else there; I could not help noticing you, as you had no hat on, and were staggering as if you were intoxicated—I could not identify you by your face, I go by your build and personal appearance.

MARTIN HARVEY (Policeman B 338.) On 5th February, between a quarter and half-past 9, I was in Cromwell Road, at the corner of Ash-well Road—I heard a shot fired—I went to Courtfield Gardens, and I

found a candlestick like this (produced)—I handed it to sergeant Allen.

GEORGE ALLEN (police sergeant T R 2). I received this candlestick from the last witness, showed it to the witness pickens, and left it with her.

JOHN BROGAN . (police sergeant B.) On the 6th February I searched Court field Gardens and found this other candlestick in the rear of the waste ground dividing the gardens from Harrington Road—I took it to pickens, and left it with her.

THOMAS COOMBER . I am a cabman, of 8, Cramer Street, Mews west Brompton—on 5th February, between 9.30 and 10'olcok my cab was passing Thistle Grove—a man ran out of Thistle Grove, and jumped into my cab, he had not hat on; I asked him where he was going to pick up, thinking he was a servant sent by somebody; he said "Go on to the Underground Railway Station"—I drove towards South Kensington Station—I pulled up the trap of my cab, and saw him wiping his face; I said "Are you aware that you have got no hat on?"—he said "Go on till you come to a hat shop;" I drove to Mr. Gooch's the hatter's in Brompton Road, and he got out of the cab and went into the shop, and came out with a biflycock hat on—he then ordered me to drive to the Grecian Theatre, City Road—while going, along he asked me if I would like something to drink; I said "Yes" we stopped at a public-house at the corner of Great Portland Street and Margaret Street, and both went in; he called for a lemon; the landlady looked at his face, and in consequence of what she saw she refused to serve him; his left cheek was bleeding as if it had been grazed—I asked him what he had been about; he said he had been drunk, but he was getting sober, now and he had been in a scuffle down in that neighbourhood—I said "you haven't come off the best of it, have you?" he said "I don't think I have"—he got into the cab and I drove him to the portland Road Station—he paid me my fare—that man was the gentleman who stands there.

Cross-examined. you paid me 4s. 6d., and said "Good luck to you, old man"—I said at the station that I had a small doubt within me, and I gave you the benefit of it—from the position in which you put yourself, in a military style, I thought you looked rather taller—I hadn't the slightest doubt about you when I saw you at the police-court; you came as natural to me my own son.

WALTER GULLIVER . I am manager to Mr. Gooch, hatter; 81 Brompton Road—on 5th February, about a quarter to 10 o'clock the prisoner came into the shop for a hat—he had a slight cut on the side of his face, and one or two slight cuts on his forehead—he said "I want a hat of some sort;" I thought he said "I want a very cheap one"—I showed him two; he chose one, and paid me for it—he said he had been in a row, and lost his hat—I have never seen the hat since—I did not see any cab—he came in alone.

Cross-examined. I swear positively you are the man, I took the more notice of you on account of there being no one else in the shop, and on account of the scratches on you—I took you in front of a looking-glass with a gas jet on each side of you.

JAMES WILKINSON . I am a cabdriver, of 68, Fitzrory Street, Fitzory Square—on 5th February I was on the rank at Portland Road Railway Station—about 20 minutes past 10 a man got into my cab; to the be

of my belief it was the prisoner—he told me to drive to the Grecian Theatre; I set him down there at the door—I asked him for 2s., my fare; he made me a present of 4s. 6d.

Cross-examined. You went straight up Shepherdess Walk—I believe you are the man—I could see you when you paid me.

WILLIAM PEEL . (Police Inspector G). On 24th February I went to 17, Sturt Street, Hoxton, which is about 150 or 200 yards from the Grecian Theatre, with Sergeants Sage and Miller—I dashed into the first-floor front, and there found the prisoner; I handcuffed him in the chair he was sitting in, and took him at once—one of the constables said to him "You will be taken into custody for shooting at a policeman and postman, also for breaking into a house at Kensington;" he replied "I think you have made a mistake"—on Saturday, 5th of this month, after his remand, he called me to his cell window, and said "Can I see my wife?" I said "Yes"—he then said "Mr. Peel, you have been very kind to me, I won't give you much trouble when I go to the Old Bailey; I know what is behind me, 20 stretch or for life (stretch is a slang term for penal servitude); you have got me straight for two"—I replied "I know have."

Cross-examined. It was about 11.30 at night when I arrested you—there were only two constables in the room with me—I left two outside to watch—you did not know that we were coming up—you told me afterwards that you thought I had dropped out of the b—clouds—I did not took for any pistol—the clothing you were wearing was the proceeds of another burglary.

EDWARD GEORGE PECK . I am house surgeon at St. George's Hospital—Deighton has been under my care from the 5th of February up to about a fortnight since—he had a wound an inch below the left nipple about half an inch long, slightly oblique—I removed the ballet from the wound the night he was brought in, and handed it to Inspector Jones.

HENRY JONES (Police Inspector T). I produce the bullet which was handed to me by the last witness.

EDMUND BLAKE (Policeman). I prepared the plan of the neighbourhood of Courtfield wardens—it is correct.

The prisoner in a long defence commented upon certain alleged discrepancies in the evidence, and denied being the man who committed the offence.

GUILTY on the second and third counts.

He was further charged with having been previously convicted on 27th October, 1871, in the name of Charles Overton. To this he


JAMES GOODIER . I am a prison warder at Liverpool—I produce a certificate of the conviction of Charles Overton. (This certified Overton's conviction of housebreaking on 27th October, 1871, sentence Seven Fears' Penal Servitude.)The prisoner is the person mentioned in this certificate—I was present at the Court, and afterwards had him in custody for about a month, until he was removed to a penal station—I saw him last Monday morning in Newgate, and picked him out of about 50 others.

DONALD ROBINSON . I am a warder at Pentonvile coaviet prison—I know the prisoner—we had him in ourprison undergoing penal servitude from Liverpool, in the same of Charles Overton—he was let out on license, which was revoked, and he was seat back to complete his term—I saw him nearly every day at Pentonville., and am positive he is the man.

GUILTY. **Other convictions were also proved against him.— Penal Servitude for Life.

The COURT ordered a reward of 10l. to the witness Pickens, and considered that the Police deserved the highest credit for their conduct.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-373
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

373. THOMAS LEOPARD(33) , Feloniously setting fire to a shed and stable belonging to Walter Weston, with intent to injure.

MR. LILLEY Prosecuted.

WALTER WESTON . I am a cowkeeper, at Old Field Farm, Acton—on 18th February, about 3 a.m., I was aroused by a policeman, and found part of a stable on fire—I found a neighbour there, a constable, and the prisoner, and by his help I took out the horses—I afterwards heard Shrimpton, the constable, say to him "You set this on fire"—the prisoner said "Yes, I did, take me to the master; I will ask him to forgive me"—he had worked for me about 18 months occasionally.

By the COURT. He is not very sharp, he is not right, and is just as likely to say he did it as not—I never had any quarrel with him or any reason to suppose he owed me any grudge—he slept in a tilted ran outside the premises—two strange men had come to the house that evening and asked to lie down in the shed, and I refused them—the prisoner said perhaps they had done it—he is very odd—some time ago, when he finished his work, I offered him a half-sovereign, and he would not take it; he said if he could not have three half-crowns he would have nothing, and he would take halfpence in preference to silver—I really don't think he did it—I believe he used to smoke on the premises.

JOHN SHRIMPTON (Policeman X 21). On 18th February, at 3.45 in the morning, I was at Acton Station, and in consequence of information I went to the prosecutor's farm—I saw the prisoner standing smoking outside the gates with three other men, strangers—the prisoner said "This fire was no accident; I can tell them who done it"—after the fire was extinguished I said to him "From what I have heard I shall take you into custody for wilfully causing this fire"—he said "Don't lock me up, let me see the governor, and I will ask him to forgive me"—I took him to Mr. Watts, and he said "Governor, I am sorry for what I have done, I hope you will forgive me this time"—Mr. Watts said "No, I cannot, it is in the hands of the police"—he was taken to the Chiswick Police-station; they refused to entertain the charge there, but he said when in the dock "I have done it, and I am sorry for it"—he was taken to Acton, and the charge was read over to him—he made no reply.

Prisoner: I should like to have the half-quartern of whisky which this man had at 5 o'clock that morning—he had a drop too much, and the sergeant told him he must fetch a doctor to see whether he knew what he was about.

Witness: The inspector at Chiswick did not give his reason why he would not take the charge—he said "Sergeant, the stimulants you have taken are a little too much for you"—I said "Do you infer that I am drunk?" he said "Yes," and I said "Be kind enough to send for a doctor"—he said "No, it is not necessary"—I had only had threepennyworth of whisky at the King's Arms, which was allowed me by the Commissioners, that was after the fire had been extinguished—I was not excited; the prisoner appeared to be dull, but not eccentric or weak—I thought him capable of knowing what he was saying.

JOHN TICKNER (Policeman X 225). I took the prisoner to Turnham

Green Station—on the way he said "I am guilty, I done it; I don't mind doing six months; I hope the Magistrate will settle it."

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate."I say nothing. I did not set fire to it. I believe them other two chaps as went away did it"

Prisoner's Defence. I think them other two chaps done it. I did not do it. I don't know that I said I did it.


NEW COURT.—Wednesday, March 30th, 1881.

Before Mr. Recorder.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-374
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

374. ARTHUR TOBITT , Stealing an umbrella and 3l. 5s. 8d. of Ebenezer Walter Henry and another, his masters.

MR. GREENFIELD Prosecuted;MR. GILL Defended.

JAMES CLEMENT . I live at 5, Seaton Villas, Lewisham, and am managing clerk to Henry and Co., insurance brokers, 1, Queen Victoria Street—the prisoner was their junior clerk—on 8th March, about 5.40 p.m., I left the office just previous to the prisoner; I heard his steps behind me—before leaving I went to my desk, and gave him 10d. in copper to buy some stamps—I then locked the desk and drawers, and put the key in my pocket, but did not lock the room, that was not my duty—I left the prisoner and the other clerk there—I returned next morning about 10 o'clock, and found the desk broken open, and the money gone—the prisoner was in his employers' room—I called him, and said "Halloa, some one has broken the desk open"—he said "Yes, and I should not wonder if the money is gone"—he was afterwards given in custody—we had a written character of his parents, not of himself—when I left, the two clerks had their hats on, and I said "You can follow me."

Cross-examined. It was the practice to leave the keys at night at the Safe Deposit Company—the letters came to 9 1/2 d., and the prisoner gave me the halfpenny next morning—I did not lend him an umbrella on Monday night—the money in the drawer was 1l. 13s. 8d. in a canvas bag, and 1l. 8s. in copper—Mr. Henry came about 10.30, and said to the prisoner "Do you know anything about it?"—he said "No"—Mr. Henry said "If you know anything about it you had better confess"—he said "I know nothing about it, and have nothing to confess"—Mr. Henry said that he should give him in charge if he did not confess—he was given in custody between 11 and 12 o'clock; I will not swear that it was before 3 o'clock—I was present; I have a confusion about the time, because the first policeman said that it was not in his province to take him, and said "You had better go to the Thames Police-court, and give your evidence there"—Mr. Henry told the prisoner he thought it would be a good thing for the lad to pass a night in the station-house, and he may have said that it would be a good thing for the lad's father too—the policeman, then left—the prisoner said that he went home the night before and had his tea, and then went to a meeting at Kennington Oval, being asked there by his late schoolmaster Mr. Bloomfield, and stayed there till after 10 o'clock—Mr. Henry and I then went to the Thames Police-station, and each gave our statement of the circumstances—the prisoner may have been told that he would be given till after 3 o'clock to confess, and that if he did not be would be prosecuted, but I do not remember it—it was a matter which rested with my employer—I heard Mr. Henry say that he did not know whether he had left his umbrella at home or in the train, but he believed he left it in the office.

Re-examined. It was the prisoner's duty to place the keys with the

Safe Deposit Company—I cannot say whether he did so—he had been nine days in the service—there was no dissension between him and me.

By the JURY. I took the desk key with me—the money was in a desk with a flap which lifted up—it was not customary to leave money there—the prisoner usually left about six o'clock.

ANN UNDERWOOD . I am a widow—my daughter and I clean Mr. Henry's office—I went there on the 8th March at 6 p.m., and found the door open—I went in, looked round, and said "Is any one here?"—I shut the door, locked it, and came out—there is a slip latch which locks when it is pulled to—there are three doors, and each door gives access to the three offices—the middle door was open, which is Mr. Henry's room—I pulled that door to after me, which locked it, I left the key inside—it could not be opened without a key outside—I went away for 20 minutes or half an hour, leaving the three doors locked, and when I came down the prisoner was at the middle door, which was to—I said to him "How did you get in here? I have just locked the office up, have you been upstairs?" which is the lavatory—he said "Yes"—I said "When you go upstairs again, be sure and lock up in future; a gentleman has just found the door open, and left his card for Mr. Henry"—the drawers of the desks in Mr. Henry's office were open, and my daughter called me, and I shut them, and said "Mr. Henry must have left very hurriedly, to have left his drawers open," and then I laid the fires—I did not go into the other office.

Cross-examined. I met somebody coining away from the office, who said "Has Mr. Henry gone?" I said "I don't know, for I have only just come"—he said "I have left my card, for the office was open"—it was as near as possible half an hour after that that I saw the prisoner—the clerk's office door was locked—I do not know how they leave—I have never seen them leave—the only key I have is of the slip-latch of Mr. Henry's door, not of the clerk's office or of the centre office—I cannot tell whether the clerk's office was locked from the inside—I have access to it by Mr. Henry's office—no one else has a key of the slip-latch, unless Mr. Henry has one—there are a great number of offices in the building.

MART ANN UNDERWOOD . I am a daughter of the last witness, and assist her—on Tuesday, 8th March, about 6.30, I found Mr. Henry's office open—I went in, saw the drawers in Mr. Henry's office open, and fetched my mother—I saw the prisoner at the second door with my mother—she said "A gentleman has called for Mr. Henry," and asked him where he had been to—he said "Upstairs"—my mother said "The gentleman has left his card"—I looked over the banisters, and saw the prisoner going down the steps, with an umbrella in his right hand—it was not my umbrella—I do not know whose it was.

Cross-examined. My mother was upstairs, and when she came down she was the nearest to him and spoke to him; I was at the side—Mr. Clements spoke to me first; he sent for me and my mother, and we all saw the prisoner the same morning before dinner.

By the JURY. Mr. Clement's desk and cupboards were open when I went in the morning, and there was a drawer open—the cash-box was on the gas-stove when I went there in the dark in the evening, soon after the boy had gone—I do not know whether it was open; I did not took; it was not usual to leave it there—the desk was in that room—I left the dusting of that room till the morning.

EBENEZER WALTER HENTRY . I am a partner in the firm of E. W. Henry and Co., of Queen Victoria Street—the prisoner was in our service; we had the character of his family—on Wednesday, 9th March, on going into my office, I found two or three people round a desk which had been broken open, and the prisoner among them—I said to him "What do you know about it, you were here last?" he said "I know nothing"—I said "Well, did you lock up last night at the usual time?" he said "Yes"—I said "Did you deliver the keys at the Safe Company's office?" he said "Yes"—I said "Did you post the letters?" he said "Yes"—I said "Did you come back again to the office?" he said "Yes"—I said "How did you expect to get in, seeing that you yourself locked the door?" he made no answer—I said "What did you come back for?" he said "When crossing Southward Bridge on my way home I remembered that I had left my stick, and went back for it"—Mary Ann Underwood said "You did not take away a stick, you took away an umbrella"—I then walked into my room and found that my umbrella was gone—I said "You had better tell us all you know about it, as I am very anxious not to do anything, and you had better think of it while I am reading my letters"—in about half an hour I came back; he still said that he had nothing to say, and repeated "You cannot prove anything against me"—the conversation was in Mr. Clements's presence—I then sent for a policeman, who came—I showed him the desk, which had been burst open, and told him what the boy said—he went to the prisoner's house and came back—I expressed great diffidence about giving the prisoner in charge; I said to him "If you won't tell us anything I shall send you to a place where you will be compelled to tell," and told the detective that he must take him—all through the morning the prisoner again and again repeated that we could not prove anything against him, and his mother came and he said the same thing—that was in Mr. Clements's presence.

Cross-examined. I was examined at the Mansion House—I think I mentioned there his saying that we could prove nothing, but I am not sure, and I believed I told Sir R. Carden that that was the reason I gave him in custody—I heard my evidence read over, and signed it—Mr. Clements had the same opportunity of hearing the conversation as I had—I do not know whether he said a word at the Mansion House about the prisoner saying u You can prove nothing"—I said before the Magistrate that I asked the prisoner how he expected to get in, and he gave no answer—I don't know whether that was taken down—the girl made the statement about the umbrella in Mr. Clements's presence, and I went to look for it and found it was not there—I charged him with stealing it—I did not say that I did not know whether I had left it at home or in the train; I sent home to see if it was there—I have one at home and another at the office—there was a mark on the desk and a screwdriver in the office, but I did not measure the mark—I did not give the prisoner till 11 o'clock to confess; he was to think over what he knew, and let me know—I meant to send him to the police-station if he did not—I am a Scotchman—I intended to convey mat if he did not make a statement after I had read my letters, I would give him in custody—I told the policeman all I knew, and he would not take him—he or I suggested that he should go to the prisoner's house first to see if he had given a true account of where he was the night before—it is not true that he

refused to take him—I gave him in custody about 3 o'clock; he had been in the office all the morning—he said that he had been at his old school till 10 o'clock; I believe that was found to be true—I have not left that out purposely; I was not aware that I had not said it—it appeared material to me then to know where he was the night before—I was naturally anxious that the boy should have fair play, and I bailed him out at the Mansion House myself—I would not prosecute him—I do not repudiate the prosecution—I gave him in custody—I did not lock him up—the authorities did that—I am not laughing—I gave him in custody—I said that it would be a good thing for him to be locked up—I am the prosecutor—his mother came and asked me not to charge him—I told her I would not if he would confess, and she offered the money to me—I said that I could not take it unless he said that he took it—I don't think I said that if he would confess I would not lock him up—he said that he had gone back to the office to get the brown paper in which his lunch was wrapped, and which his mother had particularly told him to bring home—I had no reason for not telling you that—I keep back nothing—his mother, told me that she had particularly told him to bring the paper home in which his lunch was wrapped—he came with a very good character of his household—I have not inquired into his character since—I think he has got into bad hands—he said that if I would withdraw the prosecution Mr. Freshfield, the solicitor to the Bank of England, would send him to sea.

Re-examined. I gave him in charge because I believed there was a charge against him—I believe I mentioned the brown paper at the police-court, or else at the Mansion House—that was the second examination.

LEYSON MERRY . I am a clerk in Messrs. Henry's employ—I went in with Mr. Clements. in the morning—we found the prisoner there when we arrived—I think Mr. Clements went straight to his own desk, and found it broken open—he called the prisoner and asked him if he knew anything about it; he said "No, I should not wonder if the money is not taken"—Mr. Henry came soon afterwards and asked the prisoner if he knew anything about it; he said "No"—Mr. Henry said that he did not want to prosecute him if he would confess—he said that he had nothing to confess, and would not confess to anything—Mr. Henry then missed his umbrella, and I went to his house to see if it was there; it was not there, and when I came back the constable was in Mr. Henry's office—I was in the clerk's office with the prisoner, doing some writing—he took some money out of his pocket, brought a halfpenny to me, and said "Here is a half-penny, I owe it to Mr. Clements last night for stamps"—I said "You had better go to Mr. Clements," and he did so—there was no one in the office but me and the prisoner, and he went out, and took the keys, and went to the lavatory with them—I went there in about a quarter of an hour—he was not there, and the door was locked—I went into the office, he was not there—in about three minutes he came in with two buns which he had been out to fetch, and he brought the lavatory keys with him—that was between 11 and 12 o'clock—he did not take his top coat off, or do any work—he said several times that he was innocent—I left with the prisoner the previous evening about a quarter to six—he was carrying nothing but the letters which he had to post—the manager left before me, and the prisoner followed me—I saw him lock the clerk's door, but did not see him lock the other doors—I then saw him put the keys

into the place of the National Deposit Company—he had to go to Lombard Street Post-office to lost the letters, and I did not see him till I got there next morning—he was there then.

Cross-examined. I was away about an hour when I went to Mr. Henry's house—it was nearly one o'clock when the prisoner went out for the buns—he gave me the halfpenny to give to Mr. Clements—I would not take it, and told him to give it to him himself—that was only my second day there.

FBEDERICK DOWNS (City Detective). About 11 or 11.30 a.m. on 9th March I met Mr. Clements, at the police-station, went with him to Mr. Henry's office, and found the desk open—the prisoner was called in, and I said "I am a detective officer; you have heard there has been a robbery here"—he said "Yes"—I said "The charwoman says she saw you at the door last evening some little time after it was supposed you had left"—he said "I came back, I am in the habit of bringing a little lunch with me, and I came back for my paper which I left behind"—I said "Among the things missing is an umbrella, the charwoman's daughter says she saw you with one last evening"—he said "That is wrong, I had an umbrella the night before, which was lent to me by Mr. Clements"(Mr. Clements was present)—he was told that he could leave the office, and it stood over till three o'clock—in the meantime I made inquiries, and at three o'clock he was called in, and Mr. Clements said "Tobitt, I shall give you in custody"—he did so, and told him to turn out his pockets—he gave me his purse, which contained only 2d.—there was nothing relating to the charge—he said that his mother had given him 4d. in the morning, and he had spent 2d. on a scone—on his mother applying to Mr. Henry, he said that if the boy would admit it he would not charge him; but I am not quite clear—I did not quite catch the words.

Cross-examined. I believe a constable had been called in first; he is not here—I do not know anything about the first conversation—he had been there when I got there first at 10 o'clock—I Went to the prisoner's house, and his mother told me where he had been the night before—Mr. Henry told him to come back at 3 o'clock, and he then gave the prisoner in custody—the uniform man could not act, because he found it was a detective matter; he referred them to the station.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate."I am perfectly innocent."

The Jury stated that they did not think it necessary to hear the prisoner's Counsel.


28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-375
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > with recommendation
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Corporal > whipping; Imprisonment

Related Material

375. JOHN M'DONALD (34) and JAMES ROBINSON (21) , Robbery with violence on Thomas Evans, and stealing 2l. 10s., his money.

MR. DE MICHELE Prosecuted.

THOMAS EVANS . I am a fireman on board the Utopia, lying in the London Dock—about 12.30 on 8th March, the middle of the night, I was by the side of the Regent's Canal talking with Mrs. Thake; the prisoners came up with three others and threw me on the ground—I cannot say which of them did it, as my back was turned—when I was down M'Donald struck me on my mouth with this stick (produced), and knocked three of my teeth out; they all rifled my pockets except Robinson; he stood on one side—M'Donald struck me over my right eye and left temple

with the same stick, and I shouted "Police, they have rifled my pockets of 50s.!"—they then put their hands over my mouth, and I was struck on the head with a stick, and knocked insensible, and afterwards found myself in the hold of a barge by the side of some casks—I have known M'Donald by sight for years, and am sure he is the man.

Cross-examined by M'Donald. I was not struggling with the woman or quarrelling with her; she was not on the ground calling "Murder!" nor was I holding her by her throat, nor did you pull me off her, nor did I run and stab another woman, and get on board your barge to avoid the people coming after me.

Cross-examined. I was insensible on his barge, but not asleep.

THOMAS COSTELLO (Policeman K 194). On 8th March, about 1.30 a.m., Robinson came to Limehouse Station, and said that a woman was stabbed at the lock side by a foreign sailor, and added "He has stabbed me too"—he also said "As the sailor came against me at the lock side I put out my staff and stopped him, and stunned him, and knocked him on my barge"—the inspector gave me instructions, and I went with Robinson to Northern Street, Limehouse, and on the way I said "Show me your hand"—he did so, and I said "That don't look much like a stab"—the skin was grazed on the knuckles—I said "Did the sailor have a knife, and did he use one?"—he said "No"—we met Evans and M'Donald and Police-constable Goodman—Evans pointed to his teeth being knocked out; he had one in his hand, and the other he said he had swallowed—he was bleeding from his mouth, and from the side of one eye—he gave M'Donald in charge for assaulting him—M'Donald said "I charge this man (Evans) with being on board my barge for an unlawful purpose," and we all went to the station, where Evans said "I charge this man and others with assaulting me, and robbing me of 2l. 10s.; they knocked me down and gagged me, and rifled my pockets," and then M'Donald repeated his charge, and said "I found him on board the barge, and I never touched him"—he had the stick in his hand all the way to the station; here are dark marks on it.

Cross-examined by M'Donald. You did not charge Evans first, nor was he put in the dock first; he was put in the dock, but you did not repeat the charge when you came in—Evans made no charge against Robinson.

ARTHUR GOODMAN (Policeman K 296). About 6.30 on this morning was on duty at the lock side, Limehouse, and met McDonald, who said "Come and take a man in custody who is trespassing on my barge"—I went with him, and found Evans lying in the barge's hold bleeding rather profusely from wounds on his head, but perfectly sensible—he said "This man has assaulted and robbed me," pointing to M'Donald, who immediately said "You take him in custody for trespassing on my barge"—we went to the station together, and on the way mat Costello with Robinson—M'Donald said "A woman has been stabbed outside Moore's public-house, and I believe this is the man," pointing to Evans, who made no answer—M'Donald said "I followed the woman along the Horseferry Road to a doctor's shop. I did not follow her the whole way there, but I turned back again and went on board my barge, and then found this man Evans lying at the bottom of my barge, and not knowing what he was there for I went into my cabin and got this stick for protection, but seeing that he was bleeding from the head I ran for a policeman"—I did not hear what passed at the station.

Cross-examined by M'Donald. You met me about 40 yards from the barge—you lent me a hand to get the man out of the barge—he said in the barge that he had been assaulted by you, and when he got on to the towing path he said that he had been robbed.

THOMAS EEED (Police Inspector K). I was on duty at Limehouse Station when Robinson came in, and said "I want a policeman to go down to the lock side to take a foreign, seaman in custody for stabbing a female. He has also stabbed me in the left hand. I struck him with my hitcher, and he fell down the hold of my barge; I have stunned him"—I gave directions to Costello, who returned with McDonald, Robinson, Evans, and another constable—Evans was first put in the dock, and M'Donald said "I will charge this man with being on board my barge for an unlawful purpose, I found him asleep on top of some empty casks on board my barge; I gave him one on the head with this stick, and he fell down the hold"—he had this stick in his hand—Evans pointed to M'Donald, and said "That man has robbed me of 2l. 10s. and has knocked me about in this manner, with others"—he was bleeding from he forehead, and some of his teeth were knocked out—in consequence of that I directed the prisoners to be placed in the dock, and they were charged with assaulting and robbing Evans—I charged Robinson, who made a statement to me—Evans did not make any charge against Robinson.

JAMES NEWELL . I am manager of Limehouse Docks—on 8th March, between 12.30 and 1 o'clock, I came on duty, and had to pass the top of a passage leading from Narrow Street to Rope Walk Bridge, and when a few yards down I saw. a woman and Evans and M'Donald struggling on the ground, and they all got up—Evans called "Murder! Police! I have been robbed of 50s.;" M'Donald drew back towards the pavement, and Evans rushed towards that end of the passage; some one called out "Look out, he has got a knife"—I saw no knife—Evans ran through the passage towards Rope Walk, right up to the other bridge; M'Donald and the two women followed him—I then heard a cry of "Police! Murder!" and M'Donald and the two women came back from the passage—one woman was bleeding from her forehead, and M'Donald bound a handkerchief round her head, and said "Get home and call a doctor"—while she was going away, Robinson came on the pavement, and M'Donald said to him "Let us follow the man, he has stabbed the woman"—I was within a yard of them, and could hear distinctly—they went down the cut side, where the barge was lying, and I went into any office—I do not know whether the two prisoners belong to the same barge.

Cross-examined by M'Donald. It was you who dressed the woman's head with your handkerchief, and not young Jacob Moore; he was not there at all—you did not find one of the women's bonnets, and go after them with it; you were not on the bridge at all.

Cross-examined by Robinson. I saw you leave my son Frank on the bridge—when I heard the cries of "Police" and "Murder" I went for a policeman, but could not find one—I knew you both well; I have known you a number of years, and never knew you to get into trouble.

M'Donald's Defence. The prosecutor says that I hit him with a stick when we first met him, but he was robbed outside our house before he went on board the barge. He and the woman who was stabbed were in front of our door. I picked him up, and he stabbed the woman and ran away,

and I found him on the barge. He is a returned convict, and has done two years besides. His teeth have been out for years.

Robinson's Defence. I know nothing about the crime. M'Donald called me, and told me to get a policeman, and I went to the station and got one. I did not knock the man down, and did not touch him, and I never saw the woman. I was in the cabin of my barge. I said I knocked him down with the staff, but I was out of breath, and did not know what to say.

Witnesses for M'Donald.

MARY ANN THATE . My husband has left me 9 or 10 years, and I am an unfortunate—I live at 6, Great George Square, Stepney—between 12.30 and 1 o'clock on the night between 8th and 9th March I was over the bridges—I had been drinking with Evans from 10 to 10.30 at a public-house near Stepney Station: we went away from there, and had some more drink, and then went down the road and met my friend Esther Buckley; we all three had a drink, and then we met three men who Evans knew, and he said "Will you come and have a drink?"—we all went to the Rainbow and had some bread and cheese, and left together, and going over the bridge over the Regent's Canal the three men knocked Evans down, and rifled his pockets—he could not cry out because they put their hands over his mouth—he caught hold of me as he fell, to save himself, and pulled me down and fell on me—I called to M'Donald for help, because Evans was choking me—I said "Pray do help. Are you men? Pray do help!"—M'Donald pulled him off me, and he ran after my friend—she said "I am stabbed," and when I saw her again she was bleeding, but I did not see him stab her.

ESTHER BUCKLEY . I am a charwoman—I was with Thate,. and have heard her evidence; it is correct—when she was on the ground she called for help—I took hold of her when the man pulled Evans off her; she was exhausted with him having her on the ground beating her, and I said "Come away"—Evans ran after us, and struck me with a sharp instrument on my head and ran away—there were a lot round me, and a man in his shirt-sleeves bound up my head with my white handkerchief—it was not M'Donald—I went to a doctor—my head is not quite well yet.

Cross-examined. I saw Evans run through the passage—we did not follow him, he followed us—I did not hear him call "Murder" and "Police"—I screamed "Oh"—M'Donald did not come back through the passage—I had never seen him before—it was not M'Donald who bound up my head, unless he was in his shirt-sleeves—I do not know who the other three men were, but the prisoners were not two of them—when they were rifling his pockets I said "What a shame"—I did not help him because I was kicked, and I had no time to do anything but halloa out—I did not hear M'Donald say before he went down the passage "Let us follow the man, he has stabbed a woman"—I was blinded with blood, and ran into a woman's house, and she turned me out, and said "Go to the doctor"—I should know the men again.

By the COURT. The prisoners are not two of them, because I was long enough with them drinking to know them—we changed a sovereign at the Rainbow to treat them, and gave them money.

Re-examined. You ran after me with my bonnet in the Horseferry-Road, if it was you; some man followed me and said "Here is one of your

bonnets;" I claimed it, and said "I am going to the doctor;" I had lost it in the scuffle when he stabbed me.

M'DONALD— GUILTY He also PLEADED GUILTY**to a previous confiction of a like offence in November, 1869, after a then previous conviction. Ten Years' Penal Servitude and 25 strokes with the cat. ROBINSON— GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury. Nine Months' Imprisonment.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-376
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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376. JOHN GRAWLEY (26) , Feloniously cutting and wounding William Middleton, with intent to do him grievous bodily harm.

MR. MONTAGU WILLIAMS .and MR. METCALPE Prosecuted; and MR. COLE and MR. HICKS Defended.

WILLIAM MIDDLETON (policeman D 269). on sunday, 27th February, I was on duty with Gentry in Great James Street, Lisson Grove, at 1'o clock a.m., and saw a man and woman drunk and quarrelling—I requested the man to go away—the woman went away and I took the man—several persons came up and hustled me—a man in the crowd wrenched my truncheon from my hand, and knocked Gentry down with it—that was not the prisoner—I was thrown into the street on the left side, and the man I had in custody was thrown down by my side, and fell beyond me—while I was on the ground some costermonger's boards were thrown at me—I warded off the first one—there was a street lamp within two yards of me—a second board then fell on me, and then a barrow was thrown on. me—after that the prisoner kicked me on the side of my head—I could see him—I said to him "What a cowardly fellow you are to kick a man on the head in that way"—I have known him for 12 years—he said "I have got a chance now, I will kick your b—head off for you"—he kicked me again a number of times, till I became insensible, and when I recovered, a great portion of the crowd had gone—I was taken to the station, where the doctor attended to my wounds—I was bleeding and very feeble, and am still on the sick list—I also knew the prisoner by his voice.

Cross-examined by MR. COLE. There may have been 50 people in the street—I was pitched into the gutter—I had drawn my truncheon, and so had Gentry—we did not strike any one with them; we had no chance of using them, I was too closely pinned in—I drew mine because I was being kicked on the legs and punched in the ribs—that was while I was standing—my helmet came off while I was in the road.

ROBERT GENTRY (Policeman D 142). I was with Middleton, and saw a man and woman quarrelling—I took the man in custody, and the woman came and interfered with me; the crowd endeavoured to rescue the man, sad I drew my truncheon—the man I had in custody then wrenched a truncheon from Middleton's hand, struck me on my forehead with it, and I fell in the road stunned, and lay there for a minute or two; blood came from my forehead, and when I got up I saw Middleton lying in the gutter, and the prisoner, who was standing on the kerb, kicking him on the head three or four times—I attempted to get to his assistance, but some one ran a costermonger's barrow up behind me, and knocked me down—I got up again, and Middleton was lying in the gutter, with a barrow and two boards on him—the prisoner had disappeared, and also the man who was in custody—I just saw him go into 27, Charles Street as I got up—I picked Middleton up; he was almost insensible—I have known the prisoner for the last six years—he was dressed as he is now—I know 16,

Harrow Street; that is about 160 yards from the scene of the assault—Julia Reardon, who was called for the defence, lives there.

Cross-examined. We were both on duty together in uniform—I was on the fixed point in Union Street, and Middleton was on the beat—the mart and woman who were quarrelling were decidedly the worse for liquor; I had some refreshment before I went on duty, but not afterwards; I did not use my truncheon; I had no opportunity.

Re-examined. I went on duty at 9 o'clock, and Before doing so had half a pint of ale; there is not the slightest truth in saying that either Middleton or I were the worse for liquor.

JOHN BUTTEBS . (Policeman D 198). On Tuesday night, 1st March, I took the prisoner; I knew him—I said "I hate a warrant for your apprehension for assault on a policeman on Saturday night or Sunday morning"—he said "I know Nothing about it; I was in bed and asleep at the time."

Cross-examined. I took him in Union Street, about 100 yards from where the assault took place.

HERBERT JAMES CAPON . M.D. I live at 159, Edgware Road—on 27th February, at 1.40 a.m., I was at the police-station, John Street, and sat Middleton there; he had a wound an inch and a half long, running obliquely across his lower lip, and extending through it into his mouth; a piece of his lower lip three-quarters of an inch long, and one-eighth of an inch thick was struck away, but the ragged end remained; three teeth had been knocked out of his upper jaw, two double teeth and a single one, and a fourth was hanging; a portion of the bone of the upper jaw was broken off, but it was held in its place by the gum; there was a bruise on his right temple as large as a hen's egg, and his right eye was black—he complained of bruises on his ribs; he was much exhausted—I gave him stimulants; his wounds were dressed, and he has been on the sick list ever since, and unfit for duty—he was perfectly sober.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate."I am entirely innocent; I was in bed and asleep at the time, and have witnesses to prove it."

Witnesses for the Defence.

HENRY PROCTOR . I live in Harrow Street, 40 yards from James Street—I have known the prisoner 14 years—on Saturday evening, February 27th, or Sunday morning, I saw him in Julia Reredon's room, the next to mine—she cohabits with him at times—he was helplessly drunk at 11 o'clock at night, incapable of walking downstairs—she was in the room sitting opposite to him; they were quarrelling—I got home about 10 o'clock that night, and the prisoner was there about 10.30—I did not go out of my room again till 7 a.m.: I merely went to Julia Reredon's room to see if my wife was there, and left two or three minutes afterwards, and went to my own room—I am able to say that the prisoner was in Julia Reredon's room all night creating a disturbance, and waking my child up—they were quarrelling the whole of the night, and my child was dangerously ill; we had to stop up all night with it, and here is the doctor's certificate—the prisoner often comes to see Reredon, and I know him well.

Cross-examined. The prisoner's mother gave me the money to instruct Counsel—I have been convicted twice—I was not convicted on 4th August, 1871, of assaulting my wife—I had two months for assaulting the police 14 years ago—I may have had seven days on 20th April, 1872,

for being drunk and disorderly—I did not get seven days on 7th May, 1873, for assaulting Till, No. 135—I think the dates are wrong—I was not convicted of being drunk and disorderly on 16th October, 1874; or on 21st, May, 1875; of 28th September, 1875; or of Obstructing the police on 9th 9tt August, 1876—you have got about 10 charges against me—I paid 40s. fine for assaulting the police in January, 1877—I did not have five days in 1877 or seven days in 1878—it appears to me that they can put down anything they like—I admit having been in the House of correction twice; I will not swear I had not seven days, but it is 14 years ago—the last time I was before any Magistrate was five years ago—I heard the prisoner quarrelling the whole night, but did not see him after 11 o'clock, or anybody else, except the landlord and his father—the Street door is left open at night at times—Lowerman lives in the dame-house.

Re-examined. It was five years ago that I got convicted of being drunk, but I am a teetotaller now, and have kept the pledge for three years—I was perfectly sober on this night—I have not got a list of my convictions about me—it would puzzle my brain to make one, but I am innocent of one-half of them—Reredon had a servant named Lydia Hale in her room.

ELLEN PROOTOR . I am the wife of the last witness—I have known the prisoner all my life—on Sunday morning, February 27, I heard that a policeman was assaulted, and on the Tuesday afterwards. I heard that the prisoner was taken, and remembered seeing him on the Saturday night about 11 o'clock in Julia Reredon's room, which is next to mine—I was up during that night, because I had a child very ill;, and under the medical superintendent of the Great Western Dispensary—I went in about 11 o'clock for something; she had belonging to me, and the prisoner was there then—Lydia Hale lodges with Reredon; she came home about 1 o'clock, and could not get in—I did not see her, but I heard her knocking at the door to get in; they did not answer her, and then she knocked at my door—they had not gone to bed at that time—I heard them quarrelling all night; from 11 o'clock—she wanted to turn the prisoner out, and he said "No, I am not going out"—she said "Lydia Hale is living here, and you can't stop the night"—he said "I don't care for Lydia Hale; she is not coming here to-night," and she did boy; she want to a neighbour in the house—I stopped up all night, as I had to poultice my child—I saw the prisoner in the morning when I went down for some water—I am a teetotaller.

Cross-examined. I was convicted of larceny 15 years ago, and had six months—I was convicted of disorderly conduct and assault on 14th April, 1877, and had to pay 21s. or seven days; it was for breaking a glass; the door fell off—it was in a public-house—Lydia Hales is not here; she was not before the Magistrate; she has got a place.

By the JURY. I heard the prisoner's voice just before Lydia Hale came up and knocked at the door, and after she went down.

JULIA REREDON . I am single, and live at 16, Harrow Street—I hare been cohabiting with the defendant—Lydia Male was living with me, but she did not sleep with me on Saturday night, February 26th, as the prisoner came at 9.30 and stopped the night—I repeatedly told him to go out, hut he would not: she came knocking at the door about 12.30, but she was not let in; I did not go to bed at all—the prisoner went down between 7 and 8 o'clock on Sunday morning to the yard—he never left my room till the morning.

Cross-examined. Lydia Hale slept there on the Friday night—I saw the prisoner every day that week—I did not exactly sit up all night; I lay down in my clothes, but did not go to sleep—the prisoner lay down; he kept dozing between whiles, but I would not let him—I dare say then was a couple of hours' quiet about 4 o'clock.

Witness in Reply.

ALEXANDER FLY . (Policeman D 81). I made this plan of Harrow Street, William Street, Charles Street, and Great James Street; the distances are correct—the distance from No. 16, Harrow Street, to the lamp-post is 482 feet.

Cross-examined. I did not hear the evidence at the police-court—the superintendent instructed me to make this plan—the prisoner was arrested in Charles Street, where the lamp-post is—I have never been a surveyor.

GUILTY .**†— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

OLD COURT.—Thursday, March 31st, 1881.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-377
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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377. CATHERINE TEMPLE (26) was indicted for, and charged on the Coroner's Inquisition with, feloniously killing; and slaying Annie Holloway.

Before Mr. Justice Hawkins.


ELIZABETH WHITEHEAD . I am a machinist, and live at 23, Parke Street, Drury Lane—the deceased, Annie Holloway, had been at St. Giles's Infirmary over four months helping—on Saturday morning, 6th March, she came to 23, Parker Street; it is a common lodging-house—she seemed in very good spirits—she went into the back parlour to lie down on the bed in the afternoon—about 9.30 in the evening the prisoner came in alone, and asked for a room for herself and her husband—she was told by Lizzie Edwards that she could not have one—she went into the back parlour and said to Holloway "You must come out of here, I want the room"—Holloway was sound, asleep, but she woke up, and the prisoner dragged her off the bed; Holloway said she would come out directly—a struggle occurred between the two—Holloway caught hold of the prisoner by the apron and tore it out of the band, and she fell on the floor against the door between the two rooms—she got up again, and went back into the back parlour—she said "I am going back to look for some halfpence that I dropped on the bed"—she returned into the front parlour, and the prisoner ran at her again, and they had a second struggle, until Holloway fell against the front parlour door—blows passed between them—I could not say that she was kicked; the prisoner attempted to lick her; I don't know that it reached her; she was near enough—the prisoner then went out into the street while Holloway laid on the floor—I thought she had fainted; I went and lifted her up, but she never spoke after—a doctor was sent for, but she was dead when he came.

Cross-examined. I have lived at this lodging-house between five and six months—during that time the prisoner and her husband had lodged there occasionally—I knew the deceased before she went into the infirmary—she told me that she had received an injury on the head from one of the lunatics in the lunatic ward—she was a delicate woman—she had not taken this room on this night, only the deputy told her to go and lie down, because the other part of the house was locked during the

day—she was not undressed—there was no light in the room at first—I can't tell what took place between them when the struggle began—I could see them strike each other against the back-parlour door—I saw the deceased fall twice; the second time she fell against the threshold of the door—it was against the back-parlour door that she pulled the prisoner's apron off—while she was lying on the floor the prisoner was standing over her—it was a fight; it lasted about a quarter of an hour—I don't think the prisoner did kick her—I went between them each time—Lizzie Edwards and Elizabeth Chappel were in the room, and Fanny Evans, the deputy, was fetched while the fight was being done—Edwards and Chappell gave evidence before the Coroner—I could not tell whether the deceased was the worse for drink—the prisoner was; I am certain of that.

HENRY COLEMAN . I am deputy landlord of 21, Parker Street, next door to 23—about 11.30 on the night of 5th March the prisoner came there with her husband and child—they went into a room—I was outside in the passage—I heard the prisoner say "I have done for her with my boot"—at that time I knew nothing of what had happened.

Cross-examined. I had not seen the prisoner before—I know it was her that spoke, because there was no one else in the room—the door was closed; they are very old doors.

CHARLES PINNOCK (Police Inspector). About 11.15 on this night I went to 23, Parker Street—I saw the deceased lying on the bed—shortly after I went into 21 with Constable Mumford, and directed that the prisoner should be taken into custody—she was under the influence of drink—I took the charge at the station and read it to her; it was for causing the death of Annie Holloway—she replied "Why did she pull my apron off then?"—I saw no marks on the prisoner; she made no complaint.

SARAH WILSON . I am nurse in the Insane Ward at St. Giles's Workhouse—the deceased had been a helper there for a month—on the Monday before she left a patient named David struck her on the head with a broom, on the left side, above the ear; it bled—she was seen by Mr. Lloyd, the doctor—she was able to go about her duties as usual afterwards—when she left on Monday morning she appeared quite well and cheerful.

Cross-examined. She seemed well when with me; she did not look a strong woman—there was not a great deal of blood from the wound.

SAMUEL LLOYD . I am a surgeon, of 24, High Street, Bloomsbury—I attend to the patients in St. Giles's Infirmary—on Monday, 28th February, I saw the deceased shortly after she had been his by one of the patients—I did what was requisite to the wound; it gave rise to no serious symptoms—on Saturday, 5th March, I was called to 23, Parker Street, and found her dead—there was an abrasion on the nose, and a slight bruise near the right eye, both recent—next day I made a post-mortem examination—there was a recent bruise behind the left ear—I found effusion of blood compressing the spinal cord, which was the cause of death—a fall on the floor would produce it—I doubt if a kick would, unless it was a very heavy one—I don't think the injury on the Monday had anything to do with it.

Cross-examined. I did not find any fracture of the skull—I knew her well—she was a delicate person—effusion may be caused by sudden excitement.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I have lived in this place since the hopping, and I claimed the bed."

GUILTY Recommended to mercy by the Jury.

NEW COURT.—Thursday, March 31st, 1881.

Before Mr. Recorder.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-378
VerdictMiscellaneous > unfit to plead

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378. In the case of JACOB METZ (28) , indicted for maliciously wounding John McCarthy, with intent to do him grievous bodily harm, the Jury, upon the evidence of John Rowland Gibson, surgeon to the gaol, found the prisoner insane and unfit to plead.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-379
VerdictsGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown; Not Guilty > unknown; Not Guilty > no evidence
SentencesImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude

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379. JAMES HATTERSLEY (40), JOHN POTTENDEN BIGGENDEN , and JOHN GEORGE (a convict), Forging and uttering a receipt for 87l. 9s. 8d. with intent to defraud.

MR. MONTAGU WILLIAMS Prosecuted; MR. FULTON appeared for Hattersley;

MR. PURCELL for Biggenden; and MR. STEWART WHITE for George.

FREDERICK DAY . I am publican out of business, and live at 125, Globe Road, Mile End—I became acquainted with Hattersley nine or ten years ago, when my father kept a beer-house in Old Ford Road—Hattersley was in the habit of coming there—he is a solicitor's clerk—I first entrusted him with some County Court business about 1876—he then lived in Sidmouth Street, Hackney—I did not know who his principal was—some Chancery proceedings were taken in 1877, and I employed him to represent me—he told me he was in Mr. Biggenden's service—I paid him money from time to time on account of costs—he had not then delivered any bill of costs or asked me for payments on account except the payments he disbursed—I learned from him that an order had been made in August, 1879, for me to receive 87l. 9s. 8d., in these Chancery proceedings, and I instructed him to obtain that order for me—I never authorised him or Biggenden to get the prisoner George to personate me and receive this money, or anybody else, or to get George or anybody to sign a receipt for that money in my name, or to get anybody to endorse my name on the cheque—I did not receive 87l. 9s. 8d. from him or from Biggenden—not having received the money, in November, 1879, I had a conversation with John Must, a clerk in Hattersley's office, in consequence of which, two or three days afterwards, I saw Hattereley and said "Have you received the two legacies due to me?"—he said "No"—on another occasion I said "I have heard that you have received the money"—he said "I cannot receive it without you," and asked me who told me so—I said "A clerk in your employ"—he denied it—I saw him again a few days afterwards, and said "I know you have received it and somebody must have personated me and committed forgery"—I also said "I heard that you gave a man half a sovereign to personate me and forge my name"—he said "Well, I have received it, and it is all ate up in costs, and if you ask me any more I will send you a very hot bill in—I put the matter into the hands of Mr. Daniels, a solicitor, and some time afterwards it was taken up by the Public Prosecutor—the receipt is not in my writing, nor did I authorise any one to write it—I did not attend there with Biggenden—I never saw this cheque till I was at the police-court—this is not my endorsement on it.

Cross-examined by MR. FULTON. I have been out of business about 12 months—I sold the Telegraph and took the Two Brewers, but it was no use; the police said that I might not get a license, so I did not apply—I had given 120l. to go in, and was in about a month—the police told me they would oppose the license—Inspector Shaw never came to the Telegraph to my knowledge to complain that it was the resort of thieves, but officers visit every house; there were not constant complaints that it was the resort of thieves—the officers did not tell me that it was no use my applying for a license for the Two Brewers, on account of the way I conducted the Telegraph; it was because I was in a little trouble in the country in 1879 or 1880; I was arrested at Wakefield on suspicion of being concerned in a cash box Jobbery; I was committed for trial and acquitted; the officer knew that—I had no partner at the Telegraph, but Mr. Allen was interested in it, and we had a few words in January, 1880—the Telegraph was sold in January, 1880, and Shum and Grossman acted for me and for the brewers, but Hattersley acted for me in a little dispute with Allen about some money he had lent me—that dispute lasted a few days; a writ was issued, but withdrawn—I then went to Hackney Wick, and had no public-house till I purchased the Two Brewers seven months ago after the Wakefield affair—I employed Hattersley again after I knew that he had received this money—I did not know when I employed him as to Allen that he had received this money; I will swear that—I was keeping the Telegraph in November, 1879, not managing it—Allen merely lived there; he was behind the bar—I cannot say he absented himself in 1879, or that I was the only person left to manage it—I did not know that before the 87l. 9s. 8d. could be obtained from the Paymaster General's office it was necessary to pay 27/. 10*. to Mr. Preston, Dudgeon's solicitor—Hattersley told me that he had paid Mr. Preston the 27l. 10s.; Must did not tell me so to my recollection—the cheque, was shown to me at Bow Street—Hattersley did not say to my recollection, "Before I get out that 87l. 9s. 8d. I must pay Preston his costs, 27l. 10s.," nor do I recollect saying, "Well, you will have to pay that"—the Chancery proceedings have been going on since 1877—my father was entitled to some legacies, and I was entitled to them as his executor—I paid about 200l. expenses for the Chancery proceedings; I have no receipts for that, he never gave me any—I was not in the habit of getting receipts from Hattersley—he was a great friend of mine and a constant customer—I did not keep a banking account from 1877 to 1879, only a deposit account—I paid the 200l. in different amounts, 5l., or 10l., or 2l., or whatever he asked me for, without getting any receipt—the largest sum was 30l.; it was a 20l. note and 10 sovereigns; in 1878—I paid that to Mr. Simmonds, a clerk in Chancery Lane; Hattersley told me to do so—I do not recollect receiving 25/. from Hattersley a few days after on a Saturday night at the end of November in a public-house—I know the Peacock public-house kept by Mr. Wilson; he is dead—I went there occasionally; I lived very near—I know Mr. You will, a farrier, and I know Mrs. Shepherd—I was not paid 25l. in the Peacock public-house towards the end of November in the presence of You will and Mrs. Shepherd—I did not say, "Jim, what about squaring up? you have got the money all right," nor did Hattersley say, "If you want to square up you had better pay my costs and what I have paid Preston for you," nor did I say, "You give me 25l. and cry quits"—I

did not know perfectly well on 16th November, 1879, that Hattersley was going to get the money, from the Paymaster-General's Office—he did not ask me to go there, I wish he had—I did not say, "Oh, anybody can go and get the money instead of me"—I last employed Hattersley in Men's job—I was taken in custody at Wakefield in May, 1880—I cannot tell you why I did not take steps against Hattersley before that—I first consulted Mr. Daniels, my solicitor, about November—I won't be certain that it was before Christmas; I have a very bad recollection—I was not in destitute circumstances when I was discharged from Wakefield Gaol—I lost my 120l. at the Two Brewers—I did not get my license, but I lived on my means—I have a wife and family; we occupy the whole house at Globe Road; I swear that—there are five rooms in the house—the rent is 6s. a week, not including an arch which is connected with it—I have been trying to get employment at a public-house—I expect to get my 87l. 9s. 8d. as the result of convicting the prisoners; Mr. Daniels told me that they would have to pay me my money—I was at Bow Street when the prisoners were committed for trial; I do not remember that I then went to a public-house three doors from Bow Street—I did not say in the presence of a man named Hunt, "Now I have landed Jim at the Old Bailey, and I shall get my b—money from the Treasury"—I know that man (Hunt).

Cross-examined by MR. PURCRLL. I have been to Wells Street, Hackney, hundreds of times; Biggenden's name was on the window there, bat I never saw him there.

Re-examined. Hunt is a barman and a client of Hattersley—I have seen him with Hattersley on several occasions—Hattersley defended him once.

FRANCIS KERRIDGE MUNTON . I am a solicitor, of Lambeth Hill, Queen Victoria Street—I have known Biggenden and his father by sight twenty years—I was receiving a cheque at the Paymaster-General's office in Chancery Lane, and Biggenden came up to me And asked me to identify him—I said to the Court official, "This person is Mr. Biggenden"—I signed my name to that effect in this book; this is my signature.

Cross-examined by MR. PURGELL. His father was a solicitor for upward! of forty years, and I knew him for twenty-five years before he died; he was a highly respectable man as far as I know—I have seen Biggenden in his father's office, but have not spoken to him above half a dozen times in my life—I identified him as I have twenty other solicitors.

JOHN MUST . I am in Mr. Manton's employ, a law stationer, of Union Street, Broad Street—in June and July, 1879, Hattersley hired me as a clerk to Biggenden at his office in Well Street, Hackney, at 2l. a week, and Hattersley said he should not forget me, and if I succeeded in any action I should have a gift—Hattersley paid me the 2l. a week—I have only seen Biggenden write once or twice; Hattersley can write; I have seen him write at the office in Hackney—a very fair amount of business was done; criminal, bankruptcy, common law, and county court, but it was principally liquidations—George came to the office every day—I thought he was a commission agent—he was a witness in one or two actions which Hattersley brought against the Tramways Company—while I was in the office an action of Dudgeon and Day was being wound up—Day engaged Hattersley on one occasion—Hattersley said it was quite time that the money was obtained out of Chancery: 87l. 9s. 8d.; that he

had already paid 27l., and was anxious to get his money—the order had been passed early in November—I remember early in November seeing the three prisoners going in a cab Co the Paymaster's office in Chancery Lane—I was with them; we all got out at the corner of Chancery Lane, and when we got to the Paymaster's office George and Biggenden walked up and down outside—I went upstairs to see if Hatteraley had arrived, and when I came down he was speaking to them—the three prisoners then went up the paymaster's office, and I went about my business, I had something else to do—I afterwards went to the "Telegraph," kept by Day, with Hattersley—Day said "Is my matter settled yet f"—I immediately said "Yes," and Day looked very black at me—I subsequently said to Hattersley "I believe George went to personate Day to get that money"—he said he had authority to get it—he also said "If Day had got it I should not have had my 27l."—I said "I think it is a very foolish transaction; I think Day ought to have been there," and then he said that he had authority from Day—Hattersley and I went to Day every day—I remember saying to the convict George in November "They have made a pretty kettle of fish of it for going and personating Day; I suppose you made a fine thing of it"—he said "I did make a fine thing, I got 10s. for doing so, and lost a coat worth a sovereign, which I lent Mr. Biggenden to go there with."

Cross-examined by MR. FULTON. I know that a writ was issued in November by Day against Allen, who was his partner at the Telegraph—I had nothing to do with it; it was a friendly transaction—I continued to act for Hattersley off and on till June last year—I did not see Day again till last August—Hattersley is not a man of any education—I do not think he understood Chancery or Common Law proceedings, but I did them under his directions; if there was anything to be done in the entry of an action I carried it out—he certainly knew the necessity of getting a solicitor to identify Day—I paid the 27l. 10s. to Mr. Proctor myself; that was the balance that came into Hatteraley's hands—Mr. Proctor was acting for Dudgeon—he refused to sign the order for the 87l. until he got his 27l., and he was paid by Hattersley's cheque—Biggenden kept no banking account, I believe, but Hattersley did, and as far as I knew all the money in any proceedings was paid into his account—I have paid it in on many occasions—I do not know where any other money came from.

Cross-examined by MR. PUBCELL. Biggenden had nothing to do with the business; he did not come to the office in the day time, but he occasionally came in the evening—he acted as copying clerk and messenger to another solicitor—I didn't suppose his share in the business was muoh more than 5s. a week, and I have been told that he did not get that regularly.

Re-examined. Hattersley paid him the 5s. a week for the use of his name—I am told Hattersley could write his name, and that is about all—I know a man named Simmons—I have not seen him here to-day.

ANDREW HENRY JOYES . I am a clerk in the Chancery Pay Office of the Royal Courts of Justice—I produce a receipt book containing entries of payments in November, 1879, and I find on 15th November a receipt for 87l. 9s. 8d. purporting to be signed by a man named Day and witnessed by a man named Biggenden—I handed this cheque (produced) to the person who signed and represented himself to be Day; it is payable to order, and is endorsed by Pay—before payment it is necessary that

the applicant for payment should be identified by a solicitor, but he need not be the solicitor in the suit—I find in this book two other signatures of Biggenden to other matters, in the same writing—the endorsement on the cheque is in the same writing as the signature in the book—by our rules the money ought only to be paid to the person entitled to receive it, unless he gives a power of Attorney.

Cross-examined by MR. FULTON. If Hattersley had had a power of attorney from Day that would be sufficient, if he was identified by a solicitor.

Cross-examined by MR. PUBCELL. He must be identified by a solicitor known to me—Mr. Price identified him to me, and Mr. Munton identified him to Price.

By the JURY. If a power of attorney was given the signature would not be the same; it would be as attorney—I cannot identify the prisoner.

HENRY MORRIS . I am a solicitor of 1, Aldermanbury Postern—Big-genden was my copying clerk and messenger—I paid him 1l. a week, which was a good deal more than he was worth, for he was worth-nothing; I know his writing perfectly well; this is it in this identification book as identifying Day.

Cross-examined by MR. PURCELL. I was clerk to his father for many years; he was a highly respectable solicitor, and practiced for forty yean—I promised him on his death-bed that I would look after his son, as he was quite incompetent to take care of himself—he is worthless as a lawyer—he is half-witted, but I always found him honest and truthful—he is just the man that would be imposed upon.

Re-examined. He is not much better than half-witted—I don't believe he knows the difference between an affidavit and a statement of claim—he went up for only one examination, and was plucked eight or twelve times before he got through—he did get through.

MARTIN EOLANDSON WALTERS . I am a clerk in the Bank of England—on 15th November, 1879, I cashed this cheque for 87l. 9s. 3d., and gave for it six 10l. notes, 3673 to 8678 consecutively, dated 19th April, 1879, lour 5l. notes, 33571 to 33574 consecutively, dated 22nd April, 1879, and 7l. 9s. 8d. in cash.

WILLIAM JAMES READ . I am chief clerk in the London and County Bank, Hackney—Hattersley had an account there in November, 1879, and on 15th November he paid in six 10l. notes, 3673 to 3678, dated 19th April, 1879, and four 5l. notes, 33571 to 33574—this is the paying-in slip (produced)—a cheque was paid in on 11th November for 27l. 10s. in favour of Preston, drawn by Hattersley on his account.

CHARLES JOHN WILLIAMS . I am a clerk in the Bank of England—I produce six 10l. notes, 3673 to 3678, and four 5l. notes, 33571 to 33574, which were cancelled and paid on 17th November.

JOHN LANGUISH (Police Inspector). On 26th February, at 3 p.m., I was with Inspectors Shaw and Jarvis in Aldermanbury—Biggenden was pointed out to me—I had a warrant for his apprehension—I told him he would be charged on a warrant with forging a receipt for 87l. 9s. 8d., with intent to defraud, in conjunction with a man named Hattersley—he said "I know nothing about this; Mr. Hattersley was my clerk, and he introduced a man named Day to me; I do not know but what you may be Mr. Day; I do not know Day from Adam; I received a cheque in Mr. Day's case, and handed it to Hattereley, but did not receive a penny

piece of the money myself; I gave the cheque to Hatterasley because I understood Day was a friend of his; I should have thought a summons would have been the proper procedure in this case, but that of course you don't know anything about"—I took him to the station.

FREDRICK JAVIS (Police Inspector). On 6th February, about 3.30, I was in Aldermanbury, and Shaw pointed out Hattersley to me—I arrested him and read the warrant to him—he said "I don't know anything about it"—in the cab going to the station he said "Do you say it was for fraud on Day?"—I said. "I don't think that name is mentioned in the warrant, but Day is the person whose name has been forged"—I had not mentioned Day's name at all—he said, "There is nothing in this charge; this if only done for spite; Day is a dirty little sweep who lost his position and got locked up down in the country with some burglars, and the police had to prevent his getting a license, so he had no means of getting a living, and has been trying to extort money from me, but I won't part with a penny"—the charge was read to him at the station—he said, "I don't know anything about it"—Langrish was not near enough to hear what he said in the street, he had gone in another direction with Biggenden, who was rather obstreperous.

Cross-examined by MR. PUBCELL. This was near Mr. Morris's office, where he was employed.

Witness for Mattersley.

EDWARD SHEPHERD . I am out of business now—I have been a manufacturer of fancy goods—I live at 22, Stanley Road, Stratford—I was well acquainted with Mr. "Wilson," who kept the Peacock public-house, Cambridge Heath, and after his death I married Mrs. Wilson—she has been very ill the last three days, and is not able to attend here—I saw Hattersley at the Peacock towards the end of November, 1879—Mr. Wilson was behind the bar, and a man named You all, who was here yesterday and the day before, but I have not seen him this morning—Wilson told me that Hattersley came to get some money from him; he did not say what amount, but I saw money passed, 20l. at the very least, in gold—Hattersley was in the same compartment of the bar as myself—I will not undertake to say that he, could hear what Wilson said, because Wilson took me on one side to ask me if I had any money I could let him have, and I let him have, I think, 7l., and I saw him hand 20l. at least to Hattersley—they all went away together and said they were going round to Day's—I did not know Day, put Wilson asked me to go there with them, and I should have gone if I had had time—I had never heard of Day—they said they were going to take some money to Day—I came to that conclusion from their conversation, but it was no particular business of mine—they said, "Will you go with us?"—I said, "No,' because I shall not be back in time," and Hattersley, Wilson, and Youell went away together—that was on a Saturday evening about a month before Christmas.

Cross-examined. I warn not called at the police-court.

HATTERSLEY— GUILTY . * Five Years' Penal Servitude.

GEORGE— GUILTY .*— Five Years' Penal Servitude, to run concurrent with hit former sentence.

BIGGENDEN— NOT GUILTY . There were three other indictments against Biggenden, upon which no evidence was offered.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-380
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

380. JAMES EVANS (20) and WILLIAM DOWD , Stealing a watch and chain, the property of William Annivel, from his person.

MR. COLS Prosecuted.

WILLIAM ANNIVEL . I am an auctioneer, of High Street, Barnet—about 12.30 a.m. on Sunday, 30th March, I was in Essex Road, Islington, with a friend, who had my walking-stick—we passed eight or ten men, one of whom took my stick from him, and ran down a court; we followed them, and I got my stick back—Evans then struck me on my mouth, and snatched my watch and chain away; the chain broke off the bar—I ran after them again—the two prisoners went together—I caught Dowd; he picked up a brick, threw it, hit my friend on the lip with it, and ran off—I described him to the police, and on the Monday picked the two prisoners out at Islington Police-station.

HUGO BRUNNER . I am a clerk, and live at 54, Colverton Crescent, Dalston—I was with Mr. Annivel—I have heard his evidence—it is correct.

EMILY LOUISA WILBY . I am a servant, and live at 33, Upper Park Street, Barnsbury—on this Sunday morning, about 12.30, I was passing down Elder Walk, and saw the two prisoners running; Evans had a watch and chain in his hand; the two last witnesses were running after them—Mr. Annivel caught Evans, and asked him to give him back his watch and chain; Evans said "I have not got it"—Dowd picked up a brick, struck Mr. Brunner on the mouth with it, and ran away—I knew them both before, Evans as Jack Evans, and Dowd is called Squeaker—I described them at the station, and gave their names—I lived in the same house with Evans's mother for seven years.

Cross-examined by Evans. You were both there—I have no spite against you—I know your career—I did not know the prosecutor or his friend before that night—I have known Dowd about a year, off and on.

EDWARD HEARN (Police Sergeant N). On 20th March, about 7.30, I I saw Evans in Popham Road, Islington, and I told him I should take him in charge for stealing a watch and chain on Sunday night; he said "You mean that job with a brick"—he was placed with seven others at the station next morning, and the prosecutor identified him.

CHARLES NUTKINS (Detective N). On 21st March, about 8.30, a.m., I took Dowd at 11, Houlton Place, Essex Road—I said "I shall take you in charge for being concerned with others in stealing a watch and chain;" he said "All right"—on the way to the station he said "What is it you have got me for, Jack Evans's job?" I said "Yes"—he said at the station "It is not me, it is my brother you want."

Dowd's Statement before the Magistrate."I had nothing to do with the job; it was my brother in the militia who did it."

Evans's Defence. I know nothing about the watch and chain. The girl who is swearing against me knows nothing at all about it.

Dowd's Defence. When the watch and chain were taken I was in the City Road. I know nothing about it at all. The policeman said "I want you." I said "What for?" He said "For a watch and chain." I said "You have made a mistake this time; it is not me at all, it is my brother who done it."

Witness for Dowd.

JOHN SAYWOOD . I am a costermonger, of 80, New Hall Street, Essex Road, Islington—I am 19 years old—I have known Dowd about five

years—on Saturday night, 20th March, I was outside the Standard public-house, Shepherdess Walk, about 12 o'clock with Dowd; that leads into the Essex Road, and is about a quarter of an hour's walk from it—he had just joined me, and we only had time just to get a drink before the house closed—we then walked together to the City Road, and reached home at 1.30—we live in the same house—we generally meet there nearly every night; that is the house which we use—we took some refreshment there, and walked home together; that happened nearly every night—I heard on the Tuesday that he was taken in custody; some of my friends said "They have taken up William Dowd"—I did not know what it was for or where—I know he was down with me at 12 o'clock, and he was so on the Friday—I have been a friend of his about four years.

By the JURY. I had a barrow with me, and was selling things—my father, mother, sisters, and brother live in the same house—they were at home when I went home—none of them are here.

GUILTY . EVANS then PLEADED GUILTY**to a previous conviction at Clerkenwell in March, 1880.— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment. DOWD— Nine Months' Imprisonment.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-881
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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881. THOMAS WEBB (40) was indicted for bigamy.

MR. RAVEN Prosecuted.

SAMUEL STEGLES . (Policeman X 334). The prisoner was given into my custody by his wife, Amelia Webb, at Manchester Street, Notting Bill—he said "All right, I will go with you; I have married both these women; I want it settled"—Sarah Batchelor was present—I produce the certificate. (This certified a marriage between Thomas Webb and Amelia Willes on 21st October, 1860, at St. John's Church, Notting Hill.)

MARY ANN WARD . I am the wife of Philip Ward, a painter, of Notting Hill—the prisoner is my brother—I was present at St. John's Church, Notting Hill, on 21st October, 1860, when he was married to Amelia Willes—she left him 16 years ago, and I did not see her again till I saw her at the police-court—the prisoner came and lived with me after my mother's death, and he lived with me 12 months after his second marriage, at which I was present on May 17th, 1874, at St. Clement's Church, Notting Hill—he had worked in the neighbourhood of Notting Hill all that time, but I never saw his wife till I saw her in Court—I did not know where she was living; it was reported 11 years ago that she was dead; I heard it from her own brother, and never heard of her being alive afterwards—the prisoner and his second wife lived happily together.

SARAH BATCHELOR . I live at Manchester Street, Notting Hill—on 17th May, 1874—I was married to the prisoner at St. Clement's Church, Notting Hill, and have lived with him ever since—he courted me for two yean—he represented himself as a widower, but did not say how long his wife had been dead—we have lived very comfortably together—I make no complaint against him—I did not give him into custody.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate was that his wife left him three times, that he had not seen her for 16 years, and that when he met her after his marriage she said "I cannot blame you."


OLD COURT.—Friday, April 1, and Saturday, April 2,1881.

Before Mr. Justice Hawkins.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-382
VerdictsNot Guilty > unknown

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382. HENRY HOLT (48) , Feloniously attempting to set fire to a house belonging to William Carter; also. S accessory before the fact to the attempt by Samuel Robert Pether and William Carter to set fire to the said house.

MESSES. POLAND and MONTAGU WILLIAMS Prosecuted; SIR H. S. GIFFARD, Q.C., with MR. J. P. GRAIN, Defended.

WILLIAM GADD (police Sergeant H 23). On 9th November last, about 2.45 a.m., I was in Brook Street, Ratcliff—there is a public-house there called the Duke of Wellington; I could hear a noise inside that house as of the moving of furniture—before that, during the day, certain information had been received at the police-office with regard to the house—I examined the exterior of the house; it was fastened in the ordinary way, and seemed in total darkness from the outside—I knocked at the door; Pether opened the first-floor window—I had some conversation with him; I demanded admittance—they kept me about 20 minutes before the door was opened—during that time I heard voices inside—I obtained the assistance of another constable, and eventually the door waft opened by Pether—I went into the back parlour and found a fire in the grate, and a watering-pot with a little something in it which I afterwards found to be methylated spirits—the rose was not on the can—there was about a yard and a half square of the carpet saturated with spirit—I also found a great quantity of paper all over the room saturated with the same spirit—Pether was dressed in trousers, waistcoat, and shirt; he had no coat on—I put certain questions to him—I went into the bagatelle room; I there found the rose of the can, which smelt strongly of spirit—the two cupboards in the bagatelle-room were full of paper saturated with spirit—on leaving the bagatelle-room I found a man named Carter and (s. Pether, both of them fully dressed—I had a conversation with Carter—I went down into the cellar, and sent a constable to the station—Carter and Pether were eventually taken into custody, committed for trial, tried in the other Court before the Recorder, convicted and sentenced, Pether to eight years and Carter to eighteen months—the prisoner was examined on that trial as a witness to fact on the part of the prosecution—I did not go upstairs to the top floor—I went into the bedroom on the first-floor; there was a little furniture there, but it was very scantily furnished.

JOSEPH DEATH (Police Inspector H). On the 8th November I received some information with regard to the Duke of Wellington, and stationed a constable outside—I went to that house at half-past three on the morning of the 9th November—I saw Gadd there, and Pether, Carter, and Mrs. Pether—I noticed the fire in the grate—I saw all the things described by Gadd, saturated with spirit—I took possession of the little remaining at the bottom of the can; it was spirit—I tried some of the paper that had been saturated with spirit—I examined the house; there are four rooms at the top; the windows were open and the rooms empty—on the next floor there was a bedroom, the back room; there was a bedstead, chest of drawers, wash-stand, carpet, chairs, and a case of stuffed dogs; middle-class furniture, worn; it had been good furniture—the front room was used as a clubroom, and the second back bedroom was empty, only clothes and an old chair—on the next floor was the bar, the bar-parlour, bagatelle-room, and small kitchen—the bar-parlour contained

loo-table, several chairs, couch, Brussels carpet, and about 18 bottles of spirit purporting to be brandy; I did not examine them—those were all the spirits I found; they were left there—I did not go into the cellar—I do not know what became of the bottles of brandy—the bar was fitted with a beer-engine and in the usual way—the value of the whole stuff in the house I should think to be about 50l.—there were no paintings, prints, pictures, jewellery, plate, or trinkets—there was a little wearing apparel.

SAMUEL ROBERT PETHER . I am at present a convict undergoing eight years' penal servitude—since my conviction, on 16th December last, I have been confined at Pentonville—I first became acquainted with the prisoner Holt about five or six years ago—he was then a public-house broker and connected with a partner named Murrough—at the time of my conviction he was a public-house broker and distiller I might say, at 14a, Finsbury Pavement—I first heard of the Duke of Wellington public-house last year, in July, from the prisoner—prior to that I had been a proprietor of public-houses for 21 years—at this time I was an uncertificated bankrupt—in July I knew a man of the name of Carter; I had known him between eight and nine years—he was travelling for a ginger-beer manufacturer of the name of White at that time, and living at 17, Gloucester Street, Oakley Street, Westminster Bridge Road—I had the first conversation about the Duke of Wellington with the prisoner in the Minories—my wife was with me—I met him by chance; there was a man named Pigott with him—Holt asked me if I was doing anything—I said No, I was not, I had been trying to settle with my creditors by paying 1*. in the pound; I offered 1*. in the pound, and it was refused—he said he had got something better than that for me; he had promised to give me a turn—he said "I have heard of a public-house that will just suit you, and you can make some money," and he added that if I could not do a large trade it would do for a scorch—I had had one fire at a public-house of mine 13 years ago—there was one 12 years ago, but that I did not consider one of mine, as it originated next door—I asked him what money it would take for the public-house, and said I did not care about the fire—he said "Nonsense, I will send you all the stock and spirits that you want in, and I will find what money you are short on the day of the change, and that will be a good opportunity for you to settle with your creditors"—I asked him where it was—he said "The Duke of Wellington or Magic Cave, Brook Street, Ratcliff"—I replied "That is not much of a place for business"—he said "What odds about that. I can get you insured by an agent I know of the name of Miles, at Stratford; and I know the fire inspector in that district, I can make things all right with him, for I have just settled a claim for Mrs. Richardson, that keeps the King's Arms, Brunswick Place, City Road, and I got her over 300l. for her things, which was a considerable deal more than they were worth; but mind, if you entertain this, I must stand in"—I asked, him how I could manage it, not being able to take a house in my own name—he said "You have a friend of the name of Carter, haven't you?"—I replied "Yes"—he said "Then take it in his name if he is agreeable"—I said "I do not know whether he will be agreeable or not"—he said "Don't mention my name to Carter about the fire, let that come by degrees, he is sure to know it"—I said "I know Carter will raise no objection as to using his name; I will tee him;

as regards the fire I do not know anything about"—I told him I would see Carter that evening, and he said "Come and see me at my office is the morning"—during that conversation Pigott was looking in the windows—I think my wife was walking up and down; they were out of earshot—at I went home I and my wife went and looked at the Duke of Wellington, and the same day in the evening I went to Oakley Street, Westminster Bridge Road, after tea—I saw Carter at the Oakley Arms, and had a conversation with him—the next morning, in consequence of our conversation, I met Carter at Holt's office, and had a conversation with him—I said "We have come about the public-house that you spoke of"—I don't think Carter heard this, we were not all in the same room—he said "All right, I will come out"—he came into the front office then, where Carter was—I asked him the amount of money it would take, as I had previously told him I should have to borrow some money, as I had none of my own, and he said he would find the remainder—he said "I think 70l. or 80l., but I have a man here of the name of Friend that knows the landlord very well, I am certain he can save you a good deal of money. I will introduce him to you"—he then introduced me to Mr. Friend—I spoke to Friend about it, and he said he knew the landlord very well, and it was a friend of his who had a friendly bill of sale on the house, that the man's name was Stroud, and he thought if we gave him something he could arrange for about 50l.—I told Friend we were Agreeable to that, if he could arrange it for 50l. we would give him 5l.—I think Holt saw him first—Friend, I, and Carter, after this conversation, went down to the Duke of Wellington and saw Davis, the landlord—I think Friend went first and arranged the matter with Davis—I think we found Friend there, but I am not certain—it was finally Arranged that Carter should have possession for 50l. and pay the book debts amounting to 63l.—we were to meet and pay a deposit of 10l. at Holt's office the next day or the day after—Carter and I went, and I gave Carter the 10l. to hand over to Holt—I had 9l. of my own, and I think I borrowed a sovereign of my son-in-law, and Carter, in my presence, handed it over to Holt, he acting as a broker for both parties—it was arranged at this interview that the change should take place on 3rd August—I saw Holt on two or three occasions before that, at his office—he asked what furniture I had—I said I had three rooms full, or nearly so, which the trustee allowed me—he said "I shall be able to allow you a good price for those if it is a good fire"—he asked if I had any jewellery—I said I had a watch and my wife had a watch—he said "I have a lot of duffin jewellery I can put you in, and some works of old watches"—I asked what ho meant by works of old watches—he said "You fool, if it is a good lire they won't inquire about the cases; they will think the firemen took them"—he then said "I think it will look better, after the change, to have the house done up, it would look more genuine"—on 3rd August I and Carter, Holt and Mr. Dewey, from the brewers, were present at the change, and I think my son-in-law Mr. Attenborough and Mr. Friend—while the negotiations were pending I usually wrote or telegraphed to Carter, and met him at the Oakley Arms—on the night of the change Holt said to me "You had better take possession, and move your furniture in, and live out of the business until the matter comes off, and be sure and come to me as soon as you are moved in, and bring Garter with you, in respect of the insurance"—I

and Garter subsequently went to Holt's office relative to the insurance—I think that was some few days after the change—Holt said "I think I shall insure it for 1,000l."—I said I thought that seemed a lot of money—he said the things were worth more than we gave for them, and if it was a good fire he could charge almost what he liked—he than said "No, I will make it 900l." and he divided it into certain portions; so much for furniture, so much for jewellery, fixtures, fittings, and so on, in separate sums—I think he put it down on a piece of paper, and I think it was given to the insurance man with those figures on—he then wrote Carter a letter of introduction to Mr. Miles, of the brewery, Stratford, the insurance agent—I and Garter were in the room when he wrote it, and he handed it to Garter—this is the letter (read)—I went with Garter to the Stratford brewery; Garter went in; I remained outside—I did not see Mr. Miles—I think Garter gave me the papers with the amounts on—I am not quite sure—I think the insurance agent received it from me at the house when he came—when Garter came out he told me the gentleman would call, and I was to let Holt know—I did let him know next morning—I think I next saw Holt a week or so afterwards at his office; he asked if I had received the policy—I said "No"—I had previously told him that the gentlemen had called, but I had not heard anything of the policy, and I asked him if I should write—he said "Perhaps you had better"—he then asked me if Garter had paid a deposit on the insurance—I said "No"—he said if he had it would have been all right, because he knew a man that paid 2s. 6d. deposit, and his house was burnt out, and he received the insurance money just the same—I then wrote to Miles—certain letters passed between us, and eventually I received the policy, I think by post; the letters from Mr. Miles were addressed to Garter (These were dated September 13th, 25th, and 29th)—I am not certain whether I gave the policy to Holt—I put it in a drawer when I received it—I had a conversation with Mr. Holt about taking Garter to Hoare's brewery—I think it must have been before the change—I did take him there and saw Mr. Bailey, the business gentleman, and Garter gave his references—previous to that Holt came to me in a brougham; I did not care to have anything to do with the fire, and for that purpose I went to Holt's office, and placed the house on his books—it was about a fortnight or three weeks before the attempt to fire the house that he came to me in the brougham—he said that he had come to take an inventory of everything that was in the place; that it would be a good thing for me, and also save him a lot of trouble, as he should assess the claim, and it Would save him going into the matter afterwards—he told me for my own sake to copy it, which I did in a book—I have not got that book; you have it—he said I must do it for my own sake, as if it was a good fire I should lie paid a good deal more than they were worth—lie said I should be paid a good price for everything, or nearly double its value, and if Garter had 50l. or 100l., according to how it came off—he thought that would pay him very well, and he told me to tell him so, which I did—I told him I did not care about the fire, neither did Garter—he said "What are you afraid of? you had a fire yourself 12 years ago, and you ought to know all about it"—I said "That occurred in the house next door, and I was a great loser hy it," which I was—he said "Shall I send you down the fire king? but I hardly know, for he made a mistake at some private house at Dulwich; he let a candle burn out wrong, so you had better try and manage it

yourself"—he said he would send me in some spirits of wine, that it was very dear; it would cost 25s. a gallon—"you can buy methylated spirit much cheaper—you can get that for 5s. a gallon"—something was said about brandy and whisky, and he said "I hardly know what you want with that" (meaning the spirits of wine) "for that matter, because the brandy and whisky that I have sent you in is enough to burn the town down"—on Saturday, 6th November, I saw Carter, and had a conversation with him—on the morning of the 8th I went with Carter in a cart to Holt's office, and told him I had got a four gallon bottle in the cart to get the methylated spirit in—he said "All right"—he had previously promised to let me have 20l., and I promised Carter 10l. out of it; that was to live upon until the fire insurance was recovered—I asked him for that 20l.—he said he had not got his cheque-book with him then, but I was to come for it on Thursday; he said "Be sure let me know the moment it comes off so that I can attach the money "as it would come into his hands, and it would be safer with him than with Carter—I told him it was brewer's collecting day next day, and that the license was overdue—he said "Never mind about that; let me know and I can attach before—the brewers; they will have to wait until Carter receives the money"—Holt told me where to get the methylated spirit; in the Mile End Road—before we left Holt said "As it is brewer's day to-morrow I insist on the fire taking place to-night, and for that purpose I shall attach the money, and Carter had better give me an I.O.U., so that it will make it a larger amount as far as the stock is concerned; if Carter has to produce vouchers I can make it all right on my books, and the money that is standing as it is will of course go to the general account"—there was money lent by him on the day of the change—Holt said "The fire must come off to-night"—I did not want it; I was cautioned against it—nothing was said at that interview about putting the house on the books for sale instead of burning it; previously I did put the house on the books, because I wanted to avoid the fire, and Holt came down and got out of temper about it—Carter and I made arrangements about the fire taking place that night—we were interrupted by the police about three in the morning—before my conviction a man named Leggatt came to see me in Newgate; he also saw me after my conviction at Pentonville, and after seeing him I saw Inspector Abberline, and made a statement to him—I have seen Carter since my conviction, but had no conversation with him—the property in the house at the time of the fire was worth more than was stated; I should think 150l. would cover it.

Cross-examined by SIR H. GIFFARD. When I said it was worth more than has been stated, I meant the house was worth more than the price we gave for it—I think the furniture and things and stock in trade were worth about 150l.—the two fires I have spoken of were fires in which I was perfectly innocent of any impropriety—I had no hand in making them; one happened while I was on the premises, but one did not—I was insured in both cases—I was paid the whole of one policy, or nearly the whole; that was 800l. on the Prince Arthur in the Law Fire Insurance Company—I was paid 700l. and the salvage given me; I think the other policy was something like 1,000l., it might be 1,400l.—I am not certain what I got for that; I think something under 100l.—I can't remember the name of that office; it was very likely the North British; that was on the Hare public-house, Bethnal Green—I am not certain; I think that

was in 1868—I don't think I knew the prisoner at that time; he had nothing to do with either of those houses—I believe the fire at the Prince Arthur occurred in the house adjoining—the police did not break in and see spirits flowing all about the house, I will swear that—I lost over 100l. in gold in the ruins; I found a greater portion of it afterwards—I and Carter made arrangements to burn the house in question—I did not use the water-pot that I know of; I was tipsy that evening—I don't know that either of us used it—I am almost certain we did not—I hare admitted that I lent my hand to it, and I am sorry for it—I emptied some of the methylated spirit that was brought in the bottle into the can, and a portion was sprinkled on some canvas that Holt told me to prepare and hang underneath a shelf where the spirit bottles where, and I got some paper and put it in the cradle; of course it was intended to catch light by the spirit—I called my daughter, Mrs. Attenborough, at my trial to prove that there was some spirit upset—I first saw Holt not very long before July—after I lost my money in my bankruptcy, through his partner I may say, he promised to put me in a house again, and I called at his office occasionally to see whether he could find me anything according to his promise—I have known him between ten and eleven years by sight, but to speak to only since I left the Green Man in Hoxton about five or six years ago—he never had much to do in the traffic of public-houses with me; it was generally his partner—when he said that the public-house would not do much business, but it would do for a scorch, I knew that scorching meant a fire of some kind—I did not exactly know what he meant—I should think it was a fire—I thought it was his intention that I should set fire to the place and get the money from the insurance company—I knew he was acquainted with a class of people that had been burnt out—I thought perhaps he thought as I had been burnt out at the Prince Arthur, he might take this liberty—I don't think he knew me at that time—up to this time I had been an honest man—I said I would rather not have anything to do with it—I did not care about it, neither did I ever promise him—I went into the house with the intention of working a trade up, and I put it on Holt's books for sale—I did not agree to burn it when I went in, but I was forced to it—I did not intend to burn it if I could have worked up a trade; I wanted to avoid it—I wanted to sell it for 500l.—I thought he might perhaps borrow 200l. from the distiller—I could not borrow any money myself, because I was a bankrupt—I cannot tell you positively the exact time when Carter was a party to the conspiracy to burn the house down—Mr. Holt always told me not to mention his name to Garter—I think it was perhaps a week or two or three weeks after the change I spoke to Carter about burning the house down; I am not certain as to the time—I said I thought about having to burn it down, or something to that effect, and he objected to it; I can't tell you the words now—Carter and I had never been engaged before in such a transaction—I think he partly guessed from the conversation he heard with Holt, because it was partly hinted—I knew Carter as a ginger-beer traveller; I did not know anything disrespectful of him; I believe he has been a publican—I can't tell how the conversation began, but I know I mentioned it to" him, and that he was to receive 50l. or 100l.—he certainly partly agreed, but at the last moment we tried to avoid it—I don't think I mentioned Holt's name

to him; he knew that—I have mentioned Holt's name to him—I am not certain whether it was the first time, but it was mentioned; I believe so, I am not certain—I think I first mentioned to Carter that the home was to be burnt either at the house or over the water or at Mr. Holt's office, I am not sure which; I think it was at the public-house; at least I am certain it was; I mean the Duke of Wellington—I never recollect telling my wife about it; she might have heard some conversation—I don't think she was there at the time it was discovered; I think she was over the way at her daughter's, but my memory does not serve me very well—I don't think the police were knocking at the door for 20 minutes before I let them in—I don't think my wife was there when they came in; yes, I think she was; I am not sure—I don't believe she knew anything of it, because I have some recollection of her going to bed, and me too, but I could not exactly tell you—I think she came over as the police came in, but I am not sure—I don't think she knew there was going to be a fire; she might have known; I am not certain—I never told her, but Mr. Holt was very often at my place, and she might have caught up a few words—I have some recollection of her going to bed on this night and being disturbed, and then going over to her daughter's; but, to tell the truth, I was tipsy that night—I think I recollect her coming in about five minutes before the police came in and took us in the bother, and there was a row and quarrelling with my wife—I fancy she thought there was something amiss—she saw Mr. Holt come to the place and take the inventory, and that she thought something was going to occur—I think she must have heard some conversation that emanated from Mr. Holt—I have seen my wife since my conviction—I think the child was taken over to Mrs. Attenborough's and left there—I am sure it was takes over at its bedtime—I think I told my wife to go over with the child about 11 or 11.15—I think she made some remonstrance, and I think I said "Mind your own business," or something to that effect, and then I think she came back just as I and Carter were in the act—I can't tell you what she was doing while the police were knocking at the door—I don't know where she was; I think she came in when the police came in—I think I came to the house after 11 o'clock; I think Carter came in first; I am not certain—we had been out together to Kensington, to Chapman, my son-in-law's—I did not go in, because I was not friendly with him; I waited for Carter while he went in—my son-in-law had promised to give information to the police in respect to this fire—I waited at the public-house opposite the vestry-hall—Carter went to Chapman because he had been cautioned against having anything to do with the fire by Chapman—our object in going to Chapman was to know if he had given information; if he had, it would not have occurred I told Holt about it, and he said he feared nothing about what he could do—that was on the Monday that it occurred, when I went to his office to get the methylated spirit—I told Holt that my son-in-law had sees Carter, and told him that he had better not have anything to do with the fire, as he had better be 15 miles away than have anything to do with it, as he intended to give information—I did not tell that to Holt; that was what Carter told me—I did tell that to Holt, and he replied "What have you got to fear about, he can't do anything, for they can't do anything unless they come and catch you at it"—those were the very words he used—I have not been friendly with my son-in-law for two or three

years—I never recollect laying anything to Carter about dividing the money from the insurance office—I told him he would have 60l. or 100l.—I think I told him so on the Saturday week before the attempt—I think that was the first time, but I won't be certain—I could fix on one day when Carter asked me what he was to have; I think it was either the Saturday or the Saturday week before, but he could tell you better than I—I think I mentioned Holt's name to him; I am not sure—about 50l. or 100l. was what Holt told me to tell him—I am not certain that I did mention Holt's name, but I think I did—I don't remember sending Leggatt to Holt when I was arrested—I have known Leggatt about 15 months, I think—I did not tell him to say to Holt that if he did not send me some money I would say he was concerned in it; nothing to that effect—I don't recollect it; I don't think I said so; I will swear I did not—I did not tell Leggatt that Holt was to have 100l., Carter 50l., and I was to have the rest—I will swear I never said so—I knew that Leggatt was getting up subscriptions for my defence; I learnt that from a visit I had from him in Newgate—I only recollect his coming twice—I don't think he visited Carter—it was Carter who bought the methylated spirit; I gave him the money; I got it from Holt; it was a sovereign—Holt told me that methylated spirit would be cheaper than spirits of wine, and he told me that the spirits he had sent in were enough to burn the town down if the house had caught fire—I can't say that all the spirit in the house would have been burnt—I saw Leggatt also when I was in Pentonville after my conviction; he said he knew that Holt had to do with it, and why did not I confess—that was not to get myself pardoned, or to get a remission of my sentence if I got Holt convicted—nothing of that sort was said—the reason I gave information against Holt was this: I have suffered from heart disease many years, and I was very ill, and I thought it my duty, as Holt was the whole and sole cause of the matter in consideration, and I had credit for the whole of the affair when I did not, I thought it right on my part to give all the information necessary and requisite, and confess the truth, and I have been much better since—I told Leggatt that Holt had something to do with it, and I think he went to the inspector—nothing was said about my being examined as a witness against Holt that I recollect; I never said anything about it—I did not tell Leggatt that I was to be greatly benefitted by the fire, and that Holt was only to have a small share—I believe Leggatt is a publican; I was not acquainted with him beyond his taking a house that my son-in-law kept—I did not send for him when I was in custody—I had no one in the world to take any interest in the matter as far as my wife was concerned, and he kindly tried to get subscriptions for my trial.

Re-examined. Leggatt took a house that my son-in-law Attenborough had, that was the Tiger, in Long more Road, Mile End Road—he saw me first in Newgate after my committal, and we had a conversation about getting money for my defence—I might have asked him to ask Holt for some money towards it—I afterwards learnt that Holt had subscribed 3l. for my defence—I might have said something to Leggatt in Newgate about Holt, but I am not sure—I told him in Pentonville that I would confess to Inspector Abberline, and I think he sent him;' I did not send for him; I made a statement to him which he took down—when Carter went to Chapman he was not at home unfortunately; that was about 8

o'clock on the night of the 8th—we had not bought the methylated spirit at that time; oh yes, it was bought in the morning; I was forgetting myself—my memory about the night in question is not very dear; I was the worse for drink and very bad—the child spoken of is Mrs. Attenborough's youngest child, three or four years old—they lived over the way, but she and the child generally came to my place every day—I think they left about half-past 12—they generally left when the house closed—I think my wife went out with them that night, but I am not clear about it—I did not pour any of the spirit on the carpet to my recollection; it might have dropped off the canvas, perhaps, but there had been an accident I believe in the early part of the evening before I came home from what my daughter told me—I don't mean that all of it was an accident, because some must have dropped off from what I put on the canvas—if I could have disposed of the house for 500l. I should have done so—we tried to work a trade; there was not much; there was no substantial business—I went with Carter to the distillers' to borrow money if I could to pay Holt out, and so avoid having to burn the house—I think that was prior to or just after putting it on the books—I went to Holt's office with Carter on the morning of the 8th; nothing passed then about selling the house—we went there with a cart and a bottle for the methylated spirit; that was when I got the sovereign from him—I did not get the bottle from Holt; I brought it from the house.

By the COURT. Before taking the house I made no inquiry as to what the takings were; the man had the brokers in the house; it was a brewer's yearly tenancy—Carter was accepted as tenant—I went with Carter to see Mr. Bailey at Hoare's brewery—I knew that the house did do a trade at one time; it was not a new house; I thought there might be a chance of working it up—I got the methylated spirit between 12 and 1 in the day; it was three gallons; Carter fetched it; I did not go in, I waited outside—lie brought it out and put it in the cart—he took it to the Duke of Wellington; I waited at the Crown and Anchor at the corner of Jamaica Street till he brought the horse and cart back—that was between 1 and 2; we then left the horse and cart and went home—my wife was attending to the business—Carter told me he had put the methylated spirit in a bottle behind the bar; I saw it—I came home from Kensington about a quarter past 11—the methylated spirit had not been touched at that time to my knowledge—I don't think any one but me and Carter knew what it was—we waited till the house was closed, then Carter and I emptied a portion of the spirit into a quart can, or jug, or basin, or bowl in the bar, and a child's cradle was brought down—there was some canvas in the cupboard, and that we hung underneath where the bottles were—a portion of the spirit was saturated on the canvas, and some paper was put in the cradle saturated with the spirit; I don't think there was much paper; I think the spirit was only put on one piece of canvas; there were two pieces—I don't recollect anything else—I think Carter did something, but that I can hardly tell—some paper might have got shifted; I tried to hide it when the police came; there might have been some there; no doubt it was saturated; I don't recollect what else was done—Carter must have done something; I think he sprinkled some on the curtains, I am not sure—Carter did not want it at all that night, more did I, but it was arranged for that night between 2 and 3 in the morning—I am almost certain that my wife came in a few moments before

the police, I am not sure; Garter will tell you better than me—I think I made a noise, a scuffle with the furniture or something, and the police heard it; that was before we had finished our preparations—things had been got pretty well ready for the fire when the police came, not perfectly ready; I think we were going to do something else, but we were disturbed; I am not sure—I dare say we should have got a light from the fire—Holt said if we got a good body of flame nothing could stop it, unless I was fool enough to let them come in while we were preparing it, which we did—we might have put some more things about if we had had time, and set light to them.

WILLIAM CABTER . I am now undergoing 18 months' imprisonment in the House of Correction—I was tried with Pether in December last, and convicted of attempting to set fire to the Duke of Wellington—I was not present hero, or at the police-court, when Pether gave his evidence—in July he spoke to me about the Duke of Wellington—I was then living with my wife at 17, Gloucester Street, Westminster Bridge Road, and was employed as traveller to a ginger beer manufacturer—I did not know the Duke of Wellington before that date—in consequence of what Pether said to me we went to Mr. Holt's office in Finsbury Pavement one morning in July—I had not known him before, Pether introduced me—he said "This is Mr. Carter, who will take the Duke of Wellington"—Holt said "You had better go and look at it"—nothing further passed—I went with Pether to look at the house—Mr. Davis was then in possession; he was there, and his son, and a Mr. Friend—we had some conversation there about taking the house, and next day I think we went to Holt's office again, and met Davit there by appointment, and Mr. Friend—we settled about taking the house, and paid 10l. deposit; it was arranged that I should take the house—we were to give Davis 50l. and pay his brewer, and take the book debts—I paid the 10l. to Davis—Pether gave me the money—I got this receipt (Read: "Received of Mr. Davis 10l., being the deposit paid by Mr. Carter on 29th July, 1880. Signed, G. Sainsbury for Mr. Holt")—Sainsbury was Holt's clerk—I afterwards attended when the change took place, to take possession, at the commencement of August—Pether was present, Davis and his son, Mr. Sainsbury, some gentleman from the brewer, and Mr. Holt—I had no money of my own to pay; Pether was to find the money—I saw him pay Davis some money—on settling up 18/. odd was short—Pether asked Holt to lend him the money, and he drew a cheque for it—I am not certain how much was paid at that time; I think it was something near 120l.—I signed these agreements—this is my signature, and the one underneath as well—it is signed by Mr. Davis; that was at Holt's office—I think I signed these agreements there; before I went to the house—I did not go through the stock when I took possession—Pether was to live there, but the license was taken in my name—some time after the change I went to Holt's office about insuring the house, by appointment with Pether—Pether and Holt talked it over about who we should go to, and Holt proposed Mr. Miles, a friend of his—he said "He has asked me to send him customers, as he will allow me half his commission"—Pether asked whether we should mention his name—he said he would give me a note, and he wrote this note to introduce me to Mr. Miles—Pether had got the items down on a piece of paper, and he asked Holt whether he thought that would be sufficient—Holt looked at it, and said yes, he thought that would do—the

amount was 900l. altogether; fixtures, fittings, utensils, and jewellery—I think Pether mentioned 1,000l., but it was agreed that it should be 900l.—I don't know what became of the piece of paper that Pether showed to Holt—I afterwards went with the letter of introduction to the brewery at Stratford, and saw Mr. Miles—I gave him the letter and the piece of paper with the items on it; I left it with him—I did not see him fill up the proposal; I saw him writing—I did not pay him any. thing at that time; not till we received the policy—Pether afterwards showed me some letters purporting to come from Mr. Miles about the policy—these (produced)are the letters—Pether opened them—I saw Pether with the policy at the Duke of Wellington—I did not read it—two, three, or four days after the policy had been effected I went with Pether to Holt's office: X was in the front office—I did not hear what passed, I saw Holt, but had no conversation with him, that was afterwards, when we went with the pony and cart to get the methylated spirit on the morning of 8th November—it was on that morning that I signed the I.O.U.—Pether had seen Holt at his office that morning before; I did not know anything about it—when Pether and I went it was to tell Holt that we were going after the spirit—Pether said "I have brought Garter to sign this I.O.U.—I am not certain whether Holt did not write it—I don't know whether it was written in the office or whether Pether had it with him—I would not swear which—I signed it—Pether asked if that would be right, and Holt said yes, that would be about right—I would not swear what the amount of it was; I thought it was something like 150l., whether it was 150l. or 50l. I would not wear—I did not particularly notice it—I merely did what Pether asked me; to sign it—we said we were going to get the spirit, and Holt said that methylated sprit was the cheapest, and he said "Let it be a good foggy night"—Pether said "That does not much matter to me"—nothing more passed—I did not get any money on that morning; at this time I and Pether had arranged to set fire to the Duke of Wellington; it was an understood thing from the beginning—it was first spoken of when we took the house—I was to have 50l. and Pether was to have 100l. if it was all right; if the claim was got in full I was to have 100l.—we got the cart from a place near the Duke of Wellington where Pether kept his pony—we went with the pony and cart and bought the spirit in Whitechapel Road; that would be in the morning just before dinner—I went into the shop and bought three gallons—I had a bottle with me, which I took from the Duke of Wellington—I paid 15s. or 16s. for the spirit—I forget the amount exactly—pether gave me a sovereign to pay for it—I got the change—I brought the bottle out and put it in the cart, and took it to the Duke of Wellington and put it behind the bar—Mrs. Pether was minding the house then—I then went and joined Pether, who was waiting for me at the top of the street with the pony and cart—we took the pony home to the Grown and Anchor—we then went over the water to my place in Gloucester Street, and in the evening we went to Kensington to a public-house called the Goat, which was kept by Chapman, Pother's son-in-law—I had seen Chapman three or four days previously, and it was in consequence of that that I went to Kensington to see him—we had not then properly decided when to set fire to the house—we got to Chapman's about 8 o'clock—I went in, bat he was out; Pether, was waiting at the top of the street in a cab—I went

back to the Goat in about half an hour to see if Chapman had come home; he had not, and I then joined Pether again, and we went back to my lodgings—we went to a public-house in the Westminster Bridge Road and stayed there some time, and then went to the Duke of Wellington—we got there between 11 and 12 o'clock I think—Mrs. Pether was there and several customers; nobody besides—I did not notice anybody else in the bar; I was in the bar-parlour—I saw Mrs. Attenborough there; she was serving in the bar; she was generally there—I know her little boy; he was there—she and the boy went home about 1 o'clock is the morning I think, after the house was closed; no one went with them—Mrs. Pether was in the bar-parlour—I don't know what became of her; I think she went upstairs—at that time the methylated spirit was in the bar; nothing had open done with that when Mrs. Attenborough and the child went away; the little boy had upset a bottle in the afternoon or evening—I don't know whether it was whisky or brandy, but he knocked it off the shelf in the bar-parlour—they told us of it when we came home, and I saw marks on the carpet—there might be three or four dozen bottles of whisky or brandy in the house—I went over the house—I went upstairs; there was none of my property in the house—the furniture that was moved in was Pother's—after the house was closed and Mrs. Attenborough had left, Pether went upstairs and fetched down a child's cradle with some clothes in it; a night-gown and night-shirt I think, and a table-cloth and some canvas, and there was a piece or two of matting with it—the cradle was put in the bar-parlour, and we hung one or two of the things about saturated with some of this spirit—we poured some of it out of the bottle, and threw it on to the clothes, and we hung them on the top of the cupboard with some canvas, and we used some of the spirit on the carpet, and in the cupboard, and on the canvas, and different things that were hanging about, on the curtains and on the matting—we did not use any in any other parts of the house—we had not used a gallon of it; the rest was in the bottle in the bar—we began to use it, it might have been an hour after Mrs. Attenborough left, or more—I was sober, Pether was not—we had not long commenced when the police knocked at the door—Pether ran upstairs and answered them from the window—the police said they wanted to come in; they thought there was some one inside, and the sergeant said "Open the door"—Pether said "I will go and see;" and he said "No; it is all right"—the police said "No; it is not all right; open the door or else we shall make a forcible entry"—I dare say it was a quarter of an hour before we opened it—they kept knocking during that time—I ran upstairs with the cradle and some of the things, and Pether was pulling some of the other things down; some paper had been pulled out from the bottom of the cupboard, and that was pitched back into the cupboard again and the door closed; some spirit had been thrown upon the paper; Pether then opened the door, and the police came in—there was a water-can there—I had not used that at all, or seen it used—I was fully dressed; Pether had his trousers on—Mrs. Pether was dressed; she had a cloak on her—I don't know what he had under it—the police came in and we were taken into custody, and afterwards tried and convicted—I saw Leggatt at the House of Detention; he came to see Pether, not me—I did not see him to speak to—he came to see me in Newgate after I was committed—I did not make any statement to him after my conviction—Inspector Abberline

came to me, and I made a statement to him, "which he look down in writing.

Cross-examined by SIR H. GIFFARD. I don't know how the spirit got into the water-can—it was not used by me, or by anybody in my presence—I heard the police give evidence at my trial that the water-can contained some methylated spirit—I do not know how it got there—lam not aware that Mrs. Pether went out of the house after I got there, and came back again; that I swear—it was arranged from the first that I and Pether were to burn the house—that might have been two, three, or four days before we took the house—Pether said he would get a house that would do for a blaze—I had never been engaged in such a transaction before—I have known Pether eight or nine years—I did not know him when he had a blaze before—I never talked to him of a blaze—he said first of all that he might perhaps get a living in it—it was a very cheap house—I did not make him any answer when he spoke about a blaze; I knew what he meant; he meant if he could not do in it he would burn it down—I agreed to help him in doing it, some time after he had been living there; it might have been three weeks or a month—what he said was, "If the worst comes to the worst it will do for a blaze"—the conversation began as we were walking along—there was no particular conversation, only as regards what I thought of the house—I said,. "I do not think much of it in that neighbourhood"—he had asked me previously if he could work it in my name—that must have been a month before I agreed to lend him my name—he was looking after a house some time before he had the Wellington—there was nothing said at that time about burning it—he said he thought he had found a house that would suit; us—I said, "Perhaps you can sell the house for a little profit"—he said, "It would not pay"—the agreement that the house should be burnt might have been a week after taking possession, or three or four weeks—he said, "This house must come down"—I can't tell where this conversation was; it might have been in the street or in the house—it was then he said the house would do for a blaze—no particular day was named—I asked him, "When do you propose it?"—he said, "About next Sunday fortnight or three weeks," and then it was put off to the Monday—I said it was too early, we should wait till after Christmas—he said, "No, it must come off"—the paper on which the items were entered was brought to Holt's office by Pother—I saw it; I don't know whether it was in Pether's handwriting; I did not take particular notice of it—I learnt that day what the amount of the insurance was to be; it was 900l.; I don't remember telling the Magistrate that I did not know what the amount was—Holt was examined against me as a witness—I did not know him until I was introduced to him by Pether on going down to his office to look after a house—it was Holt who said, "Let it be a foggy night"—if I said Pether said it was a mistake, and I rectified it the Second time Mr. Abberline came, which was about a week afterwards—he was reading my evidence, and I told him it was a mistake—I did not in that interval think that what I had said at that time had not proved anything against Holt—I don't know where the I. O. U. is, Holt had if, I don't know what for—I had no dealings with him other than for this public-house—I was bound to sign it because the house was in my name—I suppose it was for goods sold and delivered; that was what I thought it was—Pether told me it was to show to Mr. Holt to attach

the money—Pether told me that he had only gone into the house for one thing, and that was that it was to be burnt down; he told me that not long after he had taken it.

ELIZA PETHER . I am the wife of Samuel Pether—I remember going to live at the Duke of Wellington—some time before that I was with my husband in the Minories, and met Holt with another gentleman—my husband spoke to Holt—I did not hear what passed, I was walking up and down on the other side of the way—afterwards, on our way home, we went to the Duke of Wellington and saw Mr. Davis—subsequently I was present at the change; Mr. Holt was there, my husband, myself, Carter, and two or three more—I was present when an inventory was taken by Mr. Holt; my husband and Mrs. Attenborough were also present—Mr. Holt said he would send in some strong whisky and brandy for the night of the flare—soon afterwards some bottles of spirits came in from Holt; I can't say how many, there looked a good many—after the attempted fire I handed some of those bottles to Mr. Leggatt—the morning before my husband was apprehended he went out—he came back with Carter; they remained some time and went out again in the afternoon; they came back about 12 o'clock or a few minutes past—they sat in the bar parlour—as near as I can guess when I left them it was just upon 2 o'clock—while they were out Mrs. Attenborough's little boy had a whip and knocked down three bottles off the shelf; I was in the kitchen at the time, and as I came back into the bar parlour Mrs. Attenborough was wiping up the mess—my husband and Carter had been drinking when they came home—my husband saw the mess on the floor that the spirits had made; they told him of it directly he came in, and he was very angry—my daughter left between 1 and 2 o'clock—I carried the child across the road, and came back again in 10 minutes or a quarter of an hour—I had some words with my husband, and he told me to leave the room, and I went upstairs, undressed myself, and got into bed, and I was just in a doze when I heard the police come in—I heard the knocking at the door, and I partly dressed myself and came down—the police took my husband away—I stayed on the premises—Mr. Leggatt came and assisted me—I visited my husband from time to time at the House of Detention—in consequence of my deafness I met Leggatt once or twice outside to go with me—I saw Holt once or twice outside the House of Detention in a public-house opposite—shortly after my husband was in custody I went to Holt's office, and asked him to assist me towards my husband's defence; he gave me 3l., and said that was as much as he could afford; he gave the 3l. to Mr. Leggatt—I went to his office more than once—on one occasion he asked me if the police had taken anything away; I said yes, they had taken some things away—he asked if they had taken a bottle of stuff away; I said "No"—he did not mention what kind of bottle—after my husband was taken into custody I found a jar or bottle; it was a strong spirit; I smelt it; I poured it away; I told Holt what I had done—when my husband was before the magistrate at the Thames Police-court, I was outside—I met Holt there; he told me to go lower down to a house to have something to drink, as he did not want anybody to see him speaking to me, as he was the chief witness in the case—I went to the public-house, and he joined me; we had something to drink; he paid for it—Mrs. Carter was with me, and Mrs. Attenborough—a few days before Holt was taken into custody I met him in Holborn, opposite

Meeking's—he said he had heard that my husband had made a full confession, but it did not matter, as he had been to first-rate solicitor, and he knew they could do nothing with him—he said that Mr. Leggatt would have to mind his own business, or else he should make him—Mr. Leggatt came backwards and forwards to the house just to see that thing were going on right—the house was sold to a Mr. Halsey. Q. When did you first know that the house was to be fired? A. I had heard it was talked of, but I did not take any notice of it; my husband never satisfied me; he never let me know much of his business—for about a month or two before meeting Holt in the Minories my husband had been living upon what little bit he did have; he was not doing any work, or earning any money—he had no allowance from the trustee; he only had a little money, I believe.

Cross-examined by MR. GRAIN. I heard my husband and Mr. Holt have a word about the house being burnt, at the time the valuation was made; I did not hear more than that—I can't tell you who talked about it; Mr. Pether did not tell me much of his business; it was not talked about with me—I heard him mention it with Mr. Holt, nobody else—I heard Carter's name mentioned—I never heard Carter and my husband talk about it—my husband did not tell me that he intended to burn down the house; that I can swear—I did not know what night it was to take place, but I heard Holt tell my husband that he would send some strong brandy and whisky for the night; I was right close to him at the time—I was not deaf then; it is only through this bother that I have got so confused in the head—I may have used the words "Old whisky and brandy" at the police-court; I heard both words mentioned, "old" and "strong"—I handed some brandy and whisky to Mr. Leggatt in glass bottles—on the night the police came in my daughter was assisting me in serving behind the bar up to closing hours—there were always some jars standing in the bar—all of them had been there some days previous to 8th November; there were one or two with cordials, and another with this stuff that appeared such strong smelling stuff—I can't say that they had all been there for some days—nobody but myself and Mrs. Attenborough had been in charge of the bar on 8th November—I never saw any goods delivered that day—I was married on 6th March, 1851—during that time I cannot exactly say how many public-houses my husband has been in; I dare say it might be about 13—I only remember one fire; that was a bad one, where I escaped out of the window, at the Prince Arthur, being asleep, I and my husband were awoke by the knock at the door, and we were obliged to get out of the window, with nothing on—I did not know in October that my husband intended to burn the Duke of Wellington—at one time or other I expected it, as it was talked about; I did not expect it that night—I thought at first perhaps it was only a talk—I thought it might be, perhaps, after Christmas—my daughter was examined on my husband's trial on his behalf—Mr. Holt told me that Leggatt had been to the brewery, and told them what my husband had said to him.

Re-examined. I smelt the jar; it was dreadfully strong stuff; it was not brandy, or gin, or whisky; it was a brown liquid—Holt had sent in the bottles of spirits between a week and a fortnight before the attempt to fire; it came by Holt's carman—I don't know whether it came from Hooper's.

ELIZA CASTES . I am the wife of William Garter—I now live at 22,

Joiners Street, Westminster Bridge Road; we formerly lived at 17, Gloucester Street—we have known Pether for some yean—I first became acquainted with Holt on the second remand of my husband—before he went to the Duke of Wellington my husband had been a traveller for a mineral water manufacturer—I knew that he was mixed up with Pether at the Puke of Wellington—I had conversation with my husband about it several times—he slept at home—at that time he was earning 3s. 4d. a day, besides 1d. a dozen commission money; that was all we had to support us—we had no furniture or jewellery—I have eight children, the eldest is 14—I knew Chapman as Pether's son-in-law; I knew nothing of him—he told me something before the night of 8th November—my husband went out that morning; he came home about half-past 8 at night—he stopped at home a little while and went out again; he said he should not be long, but he did not come back at all—next day I received a telegram, and went to the Duke of Wellington, and found that he was in custody—I went daily to the House of Detention to see him—on the second remand I saw Holt outside the Court; Mrs. Attenborough introduced him to me—he said he could not be seen speaking to me as he was the chief witness in the case—he asked me if I would take something, and we adjourned to a public-house and had something to drink—I saw him next outside the House of Detention; he then told me not to open my mouth so wide, as everybody would know my business, and he told me to meet him at a public-house in Chiswell Street at 12 o'clock, not to come to his place of business, but I did not go to Chiswell Street, I went to his place of business in Finsbury Pavement that same day; he was very much annoyed at my coming there—I asked him for some money in consequence of what my husband had said—I told him he was the cause of all my husband's trouble; that I had eight children to keep, and I did not know which way to turn—he said that when Pether came to him he had not got more than 10 1/2 d.; he knew men that had got money from him; he could not be seen giving me any money at his place of business, but he would send me some stamps, and he sent me 15s. in stamps, with a slip of paper; I turned the stamps into money—I think I saw Holt twice in a public-house outside the House of Detention when I went to visit my husband—I spoke to him each time—he said it was a very great pity, that if somebody had not been talking it would have been all right—we had something to drink on those occasions, which he paid for—I was outside this Court when my husband was tried; I saw Holt outside; I don't think I went anywhere with him—after my husband's conviction I went with Holt to Hoare's brewery—I told him he was as bad as the men that were put away, as I had heard it was him that had sent the things in to destroy the house—he asked me who told me so—I told him Mrs. Pether—he said a lot of old women got together, and did not know what they were talking about—he also said "The men are away, and it will all have to be proved"—I first knew that the house was to be set on fire something like a month or two before—I persuaded my husband not to have anything to do with it from the beginning—I did not know what he was going out for on the night of the 8th.

Cross-examined by MR. GRAIN. I knew from my husband that if the house was burnt he was to receive some money from the insurance—up to this time he had been a good husband and a respectable man, earning this livelihood the best way he could; ha had to work hard to keep us and

the children—at his trial here I Had to wait about a good many days—I knew that Mr. Holt was one of the witnesses for the prosecution—there were a number of people about outside, detectives and others—while he was talking to me we were standing openly in the street—after my husband's conviction I went to Hoare's brewery because I was told there might be a little money when the change took place with another tenant—Holt was waiting to see one of the gentlemen; he told me he was acting on behalf of Messrs. Hoare in reference to the change—I believe there was a little subscription got up for the defence of my husband and Pether—I don't know whether Messrs. Hoare subscribed; I know Holt gave 3l.—I said at the police-court "I knew after a time the object with which the house was taken; I knew it from Philip Chapman and from Mrs. Pether and my husband"—that is correct.

EMMA ATTENBOROUGH . I am the daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Pether.

Cross-examined by MR. GRAIN. On 8th November I was assisting my mother serving in the bar—I said at the police-court, "I did not see the four-gallon jar brought in either by my father or Carter on that day;" that is true—I also said, "I was in the house assisting in the bar in the afternoon and until the house was closed"—I did not notice a four-gallon jar there either in the bar-parlour or behind the bar.

Re-examined. I was there when the stone jar was found, after my father was in custody—I don't recollect my mother doing anything with it—I did not smell it.

FREDERICK ATTENBOROUGH . I am the husband of the last witness—I remember the Wellington being taken—I pawned some watches, rings, and other articles for Pether, for the purpose of raising some of toe money to take the house; I can't say what the amount was; I gave him the money; these are the tickets (These amounted to 28l. 12s.)—I was outside the Old Bailey when Pether was being tried—I saw Molt; he said that he had given Mr. Leggatt 3l. for Mrs. Pether to assist her.

JOHN MARCHMONT MILES . I live at Emanuel Villas, Romford Road, Forest Gate—I was formerly agent for the London and Lancashire Fire Office, and as such I was acquainted with Holt—on or about 2nd September Carter, whom I did not know before, called on me with this letter, in consequence of which I sent Mr. Donald to make an inventory of the house—I gave him a form to fill up; he filled up the items from Carter's dictation—I was not present; on Donald's return I saw the paper; this is it (produced.—the writing in ink I did myself—upon that the policy was drawn up—I afterwards received a letter from Carter, before the policy was delivered—I destroyed that letter; it merely asked why the policy was not sent—I wrote the letter of 13th September in answer—I subsequently sent a letter with the policy, and received in answer this letter containing a post-office order for 1l. 4s. 3d. from Carter—the memorandum of the property to be insured was destroyed after the last trial—I received it from Carter at the time he wrote the letter; to the best of my belief it was in the same handwriting as the letter—I never saw Holt write.

LAIRD DONALD . I live at Leyton Green, Essex—I was clerk to Mr. Miles—on 3rd September by his direction I went to the Duke of Wellington, Brook Street, Ratcliff—I there saw Pether—I asked for Mr. Carter—I had the form with me, in which the entries in ink were subsequently made by Mr. Miles—I put questions to Pether, and put down his answers in pencil—I did not take any inventory.

THOMAS FRIEND . I live at Victoria Cottage, lime Grove, Hackney, and am a commission agent—I know Davis and Pether—I acted for Davis in the sale of the Wellington—I saw Pother on one occasion outside Mr. Holt's office—I received a little over 5l. for the part I took in the sale—a portion from Pother, and a portion from Holt.

Cross-examined by SIR H. GIFFARD. I introduced the business to Holt—Davis was the first person who spoke to me about it—he was in difficulties, and wanted to dispose of the house—I was to get something if I could find him a purchaser, and I went to Holt to know if he had a client with a little money—I can't tell the exact date of that—I dare say it was three weeks or a month before the business was carried through—I told Holt that Davis wanted me to find him a customer—I suppose it is part of Holt's business to find customers or purchasers—people go to him for that purpose, and they are put on the books—I got 5l. for this, or it might be a little over—it is the ordinary custom of the trade—you get it from both sides if you can—Holt did not refer me to Pether as a person who might become a customer—I met him as I was coming out of Holt's office—he was going in on some business, and I asked him if he knew any one with a little bit of money (50l. or 60l.) who wanted a house, and he said "That is Just what I want, Tom; I want a house, and I shall put you on a bit if I purchase"—we went and had some refreshment, and made an appointment to meet at the house the same afternoon for him to see Mr. Davis—Holt was not present at that time—it was not arranged between us who was to be the broker—that was an after consideration—it was naturally to be expected that Halt was to have the brokerage—when I met Pether by appointment that same day, he told me that Holt should be his broker—I can't tell what day it was—I think it was a day or two before the contract was signed—it might be a week.

THOMAS WILLIAM DAVIS . I was formely landlord of the Duke of Wellington up to 3rd of August last—I spoke to Mr. Friend with a view of obtaining a customer—I ultimately agreed to sell the house to Pether, and on the day of the change, 3rd of August, Holt, Pether, Carter, and Mr. Dewey, the broad cooper to Messrs. Hoare, were there—in settling up some money was short, and Holt drew a cheque for it, and handed it to Mr. Dewey—the house was taken in Carter's name—I gave up possession to Pether—I did not know one from the other at that time—Sainsbury came to take the inventory—Holt was with him.

WILLIAM LEGGATT . I keep the Tiger public-house in Bancroft Road, Mile End—I have known Pether about 15 months—while he was in Clerkenwell Prison before his trial I went and saw him, and in consequence of what he said I went and saw Holt—I told him that Pether had made a statement to me, and that he had told me that he (Holt) was implicated in the fire at Brook Street, Ratcliff—he said it was a confounded lie, that he would not tell Pether to keep his tongue quiet, and all things in the end he was sure would come of right, but he denied that he had anything to do with the fire—I saw him at his office on the second occasion after visiting Pether; Mrs. Pether was with me—I told him that Pether had made a full confession of the fire that implicated him, and I asked him to give me some money towards the defence—he gave me three sovereigns, two from himself and one he said a friend had given him, and he asked me to get up a subscription to get some more money together—I got up the petition—I subsequently obtained a customer

for the house and a transfer of it from Garter—he endorsed the license in Newgate—the furniture was subsequently sold, and fetched 26l.—I found at Pether's premises the three letters that have been produced from Mr. Miles—I also took possession of some bottles of spirit, which I handed over to Inspector Abberline—it was strong alcoholic spirit, not such as I should supply—I am a publican—it was not the ordinary public-house spirit—I handed four or five bottles, I think, to Abbeline, and I think I have four or five more at home now—after Pether's conviction I obtained a Secretary of State's order to visit him in Pentonville—he made a statement to me in the presence of a warder, and from the convict's wish I saw a man named Sainsbury in the City Road and made a communication to him—on the following Sunday Holt drove down to my place—I told him that Pether had made a full confession to myself of three fires that he was implicated in; one was at the King's Arms, Brunswick Street, City Road; the other was a private house at Dulwich, and the other was the Duke of Wellington—Holt said he must be a b—old sod to say such a thing as that—I then called his attention to the spirits that were on the sideboard in the bar-parlour—he said, "I have seen them before; they only contained strong whisky, they can't get anything out of that"—they were some of the spirits that I had received from Mrs. Pether—this was in the bar-parlour—we then west before the bar, and while he was there he said, "God blind me, if they want me why don't they take me? I am not implicated in it at all; I have had tip-top Counsel's advice, and they won't take the convict's words"—before the trial I told him that Pether wanted to see him very particularly—he said, "Tell Sam that I really must not come, as I shall be one of the chief witnesses in this case, but what I shall say will do him no harm"—I went several times to the House of Detention, and on two of these occasions I saw Holt outside the prison—Mrs. Carter and Mrs. Pether were present—I showed him this letter from Chapman, and he read it. (Read: "Dear Bill,—Sorry to know you are at this place, but you can get off if you like; I should look after myself. Don't think but what I am a friend of yours.—Yours truly, P. C.") I showed that to Holt, and he said, "Be sure to tell Pether to keep quiet, not to say anything, as I have seen the inspector to-day at my office, and he told me he did not think there was sufficient evidence to convict them, and I have seen the agent from the insurance, and they felt inclined to withdraw the charge"—I told Pether this, and he seemed very pleased—I saw Holt waiting outside to hear what Pether had to say when I came out—I told him that Pether was very pleased to think that he had come up there—I don't recollect anything more—this card was given to me by Sainsbury at the King's Arms the same day after I had visited the convict at Pentonville—I also received this letter from Pether, and subsequently, on the Saturday, I went to Holt's office and saw him, and he walked with me to the King's Arms—on the way he asked me how the case was going on, he was so anxious to know—I told him I had heard nothing fresh—he said, "When you go to see Pether again give my best respects to him, and tell him that I will communicate with him by letter if I possibly can."

Cross-examined by SIR H. GIFFARD. I think I have had my proof taken three times at the police-court, and Mr. Abberline has been twice to my place—he did not take down what evidence I could give—I

have not seen much of him—I have been to Messrs. Wontner's office on three different occasions, and met him there—I have not given any new proof since I was last at the police-court—I think I told the Magistrate pretty nearly all I have said to-day—I did not tell all I knew at first—I did not tell the Magistrate on the second occasion that I had suppressed a variety of facts, because I was afraid to tell the whole story—I was threatened at the police-court, and told that I ought to be shot, and that rather intimidated me—what I stated was the truth—I have not told any untruth—I did suppress some things, because I was intimidated—between my first and second examinations Inspector Abberline came down to me on Sunday, and I talked to him about the case—he asked me to go up to the office again, and I did within the week—I can't give you the date when I first went to Holt and spoke to him about what Pether had said to me—it was the second day after Pether was taken—it is true that on that occasion Pether said that Holt was implicated—I saw Pether almost every other day along with his wife—he did not on that occasion say that Holt was implicated—I made him tell me all about it—the first statement was in Clerkenwell Prison—he told me that Holt had got him to buy the house on purpose to burn it down; and that Holt was to have 100l., Carter 50l., and Pether the remainder—it was directly after Pether told me, that I told Holt he had made a full confession of his being implicated in three fires—that was while he was in Pentonville, not Clerkenwell, before his conviction, and when Holt called at my place, I told him again almost the same as I had told him previously; that was after the conviction—I was not asked about that before the Magistrate—Pether told me that Mr. Holt gave a man called the "Fire King" 50l. for doing it—Pether said he knew nothing about the two fires—he acknowledged to one—he did not say that he himself was implicated in the two other fires—I can't say whether he was or not—he said Holt was—I told Holt word for word what Pether said—I was looking after Pether's wife's interests, as everybody seemed to impose upon the poor woman—the fittings and utensils were first sold for 200l., but the man did not complete—he gave 180l. to Messrs. Hoare's, and they kept the money up to the present time—the furniture sold for 26l., and some other articles for 27l. odd—the bagatelle board was sold afterwards—I sold the spirits for Mrs. Pether—there was very little stock, about three dozen bottles—I bought them myself for something between 5l. and 6l.—I think there was between two and three dozen of port wine, just upon two gallons of gin, and the same quantity of rum, brandy, and some cordials; no whisky—I was aware that Holt was settling the transfer of the house for the brewers; Messrs. Hoare would not employ anybody else—the sale was to Mr. Halsey—he said he would not have anything to do with Mr. Holt; that he did not consider he was a safe man to have anything to do with; and he employed Mr. Messino—Holt did not get the signatures of Carter and Pether to carry the business through, I got them myself, in this very place—he did not give me the papers—I brought them away myself from the Wellington, and gave them up to Mr. Bailey, at Hoare's brewery; even the insurance policy—I endorsed the license.

Re-examined. I am no relation of the Pethers, and have no interest in this matter—Pether said that Holt had given the "Fire King" 50l. for setting a house on fire at Dulwich; that was the usual fee to be given to the "Fire King"—I have not given any statement to Messrs. Wontner's since the matter was heard at the police court against Holt.

JOSEPH WHITE . I am a carpenter, and live at 60, Beresford Street, Walworth—I have been for some time doing work for the prisoner—I looked over the Duke of Wellington in company with Holt—I saw Pether there—on 8th Nov. I was with Holt from about 5 in the evening till about 11 o'clock at night—I was driving with him part of the time—I asked him how Pether was going on—he said he was not doing much, he should not be surprised to hear if there was a puff.

Cross-examined by SIR H. GIFFARD. I did not do up the Duke of Wellington—I simply gave an estimate for it; it was about 50l.—I don't know that it was done up—I never was in the house afterwards—I gave the estimate before the house was purchased, when Pether was negotiating for it.

JOHN GREGORY . I am a clerk in the prisoner's employment, at 14a, Finsbury Square—it was part of my duty to enter in the call book the persons who called—I entered the service about the 20th September, 1880—on the 21st of September I find an entry that Pether called—he said he wanted his house Bold, he wished to see Mr. Holt—I told him he was out, but I would take any instructions from him—I told Mr. Holt when he came in, and the entry of wanting his house sold was subsequently transferred to this register—at the page for 8th November I find a portion of the page wanting—I know nothing about it—I do not find any entry of Pether having called on that day—I read in the paper an account of Carter and Pether being taken into custody—I called Mr. Holt's attention to it when he came to the office—I cannot remember what he said exactly—I am still in his employment—Pether called at the office on several occasions, and Carter occasionally—Mr. Holt said he did not wish to see them—he did not give me any instructions about not entering their names in the call book—he told me not to enter the females' names, refering to their wives; that was after the husbands were in custody—I did not keep the call book, that was the duty of the office boy—parts of other pages nave been cut out of the book—I did not cut them out—I do not know who did, or by whose authority it was done—this (produced) is Mr. Holt's diary—I find on the 8th November an entry of Pether and Carter having been there—Mr. Holt saw them on that day—I did not keep either of the books on that day.

Cross-examined by SIR H. GIFFARD. Mr. Holt said that the women came bothering him for money, and he would not see them.

GEORGE RAYNER . I am a job-master in Jamaica Street—I know Pether—on 8th November I let him a pony and cart; next day I went to see him, and found that he was in custody.

PHILIP CHAPMAN . I live at 9, Eustace Road, Walham Green—I formerly lived at the Goat, High Street, Kensington—Pether is my father-in-law—about three days before he was taken into custody I saw Carter in a public-house in the Westminster Bridge Road, and he made a communication to me—I had not spoken to Pether for about two years—I was on bad terms with him.

FREDERICK ABBERLINE (Police Inspector). I had charge of the case against Carter and Pether—in the course of my inquiries I called at Holt's office—after Pether and Carter's conviction I received certain information, and went to Pentonville Prison under an order from the Secretary of State, and saw Pether—he made a statement which I took

down in writing—I also saw Garter under an order—he made a statement which I took down in writing—I brought those statements under the notice of the Public Prosecutor, and placed myself in communication with Messrs. Wontner, the Agents for the Treasury—these (produced) are the statements—Pother's is dated 27th January and 14th February, and Carter's 1st and 15th February—on Thursday, 10th February, at 2.30, I saw Holt in the City Road, near his office—I said "I wish to speak to you, Mr. Holt; perhaps we had better go into your office"—at that moment I was speaking to two other officers, and I called them into the office also—I then said, "I have to take you into custody for being concerned with Pether and Carter in attempting to set fire to the Duke of Wellington public-house on 9th November last"—he said, "You don't say so"—I remained at his office some 20 minutes or half an hour, whilst he sent to his solicitor and his wife; we then left in a cab for Arbour Square Station—on the way he said, "I heard that Pether had made a confession, and I was advised to go away, but I have nothing to be afraid of, and I told them so"—he then added, "If I had taken my doctor's advice I should have been in South America now: this is what you get for doing a man a good turn"—later on I took possession of books and documents at his office, among others the books produced, and this draft letter-book—in the course of my inquiries I saw the witness Leggatt, and received from him some bottles of spirits among other things—I saw him take some of the spirit and throw it into the fire; it seemed very inflammable; the bottles were submitted to Mr. Wigner—in a drawer in Holt's office I found this letter and envelope addressed, "Henry Holt, Esq., King's Arms."

Cross-examined by SIR H. GIFFARD. I am sure he said South America, not the South of France; I made a note of it.

JOHN GREGORY (Re-examined). This letter is Holt's writing (This was dated July 30, 1880, from Holt to Messrs. Sandiland and Co. relative to the settlement of a fire claim.)

GEORGE WILLIAM WIGNER . I am a public analyst, 79, Great Tower Street—I have analysed the contents of four bottles of spirits handed to me by Inspector Abberline—the one labelled "Fine old pale brandy" is a sample of spirit 3 degrees over proof; it is really a raw spirit, not brandy at all, coloured with calomel and burnt sugar; it is not fit to drink; it is more inflammable than ordinary brandy or whisky; one bottle was labelled "Fine old Irish Whisky," the other two bottles bore no labels of a spirit's name—they are very slightly under proof, one of them 3 1/2 degrees and the other 4 1/2—the strongest whisky retailed in bottles is 11 degrees under proof; the more common is about 22 under proof—I never knew whisky sold for consumption so strong as this—it is highly inflammable.

Cross-examined. The more you approach pure alcohol the greater the inflammability, and the more the publican is able to water it down.

By the COURT. I should suppose that no such brandy as this was ever bottled for consumption—as regards the whiskies, it is within possibility that bottles of this strength may be sent into public-houses, but brandy 6 over proof is quite unknown except in casks in bond; the strongest at which it is given to the public would be at proof, not over-proof, and the strongest in a house of this description I should think would be 20 under proof.

WILLIAM CARTER (Re-examined). I do not think the signature to this paper (produced) is mine—it is not like Pother's; he generally writes sideways—I don't know whether there were quantities of goods delivered of that character; Pether would know—I don't know whether 10 gallons of rum and 4 gallons of whisky and 3 dozen port and 3 dozen sherry were delivered on 2nd November—I know Hooper's man—some goods did come from Hooper's about that date; I did not take them in; I ordered them from Messrs. Hooper.

THOMAS FRIEND (Re-examined). I had known Pether some years before I saw him at Mr. Holt's office—when I first saw him he had the Green Man at Hoxton, and was in a very good position—I did not see Pother's wife there the first time—I met Pether there by appointment.

THOMAS WILLIAM DAVIS (Re-examined). Friend came down to me at the Duke of Wellington, and said he had got a customer coming down to meet him there, and he waited there some hours, and then the man that I know now to be Pether came by himself at about 5 p.m.—I did not know Mrs. Pether then—I first saw her about five or six days after—I did not know that Pether and his wife had gone to look at the outside of my house to see the sort of thing it was—when I saw Mrs. Pether she came with her husband and daughter.

SIR HARDINGE GIFFARD in the course of the case submitted that it did not come within the statute upon which the indictment was framed (24 and 25 Vic., c. 97, sec. 8); that the overt act there referred to must be such at to constitute an actual attempt to set fire; and that a mere preparation to do so was not sufficient; in the language of one of the learned Judges, "The act must be an act tending to the immediate execution of the thing," and in this case the evidence did not go so far as that.

MR. POLAND contended that the evidence amply supported the words of the statute, that the preparations made were sufficiently proximate to show the attempt, and directly and immediately tended to the execution of the principal crime, which, but for the interruption by the police, would have been consummated.

MR. JUSTICE HAWKINS (after consideration) stated that the inclination of his opinion, was adverse to the objection taken, but he would reserve the point if necessary.

Cases referred to in argument—Reg. v. Taylor, Foster and Finlaison, Reg. v. St. George, 9 Car and Payne, 493; Reg. v. McPherson, Dearsley's Crown Cases; and Reg. v. Roberts.

The prisoner received a good character.


There was another indictment against the prisoner for a misdemeanour, which was ordered to stand over till next Sessions.

NEW COURT.—Friday, April 1st, 1881.

Before Mr. Recorder.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-383
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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383. SAMUEL CHAELES PHILLIPS (36) PLEADED GUILTY to unlawfully obtaining from Thomas Samuel Downing Hallam, goods value 150l. with intent to defraud, and to obtaining credit by false pretences.— Judgment Respited.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-384
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

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384. SAMUEL CHARLES PHILLIPS was again indicted for wilful and corrupt perjury, upon which MR. GRAIN offered no evidence.


28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-385
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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385. GEORGE WHITCOMBE (29) PLEADED GUILTY to unlawfully obtaining goods by false pretences. Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor.— One Month's Imprisonment.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-386
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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386. THOMAS BUTLER (19) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Abraham Harris, and stealing 67 yards of cloth, his property.

MR. HOCKHOFF Prosecuted; MR. BURNIE Defended.

DAVID SILVERBERG . I am a jeweller, and am keeping company with Esther Harris—I was out with her on 17th March, and on going home with her about 8.10 p.m., to 22, Great Alie Street, Whitechapel, I opened the parlour door, and said to her, "Oh! the door is open"—I went back and closed the street door, and was going towards the par lour door again, when the prisoner came out of the parlour with a roll of cloth under his arm—I said, "Oh! it is a thief," and he let the cloth fall inside the parlour door, and said, "It is only Jones"—I caught hold of him, and struggled with him till a constable came—the street door was open when we went home; it is usually kept shut—it cannot be opened from outside, even with a key—I often go there.

Cross-examined. It is a large dwelling-house, let out in two lodgings—there was no light in the passage or parlour—it was quite dark, but the street lamp shone through the fanlight behind me—he said, "It is only Jones," not "It is only a joke"—I held him 10 minutes, till the police came.

Re-examined. I know the two lodgers, they are Jewish people—I never saw the prisoner there before.

ESTHER HARRIS . I live with my father, at 22, Great Alie Street, Whitechapel, and am keeping company with the last witness—I came home with him about 10.15 on 17th March; we entered the passage, and as he turned the handle of the parlour door, it opened—he said, "Oh! the door is open," and went back to close the street door, and the prisoner came out of the parlour with a roll of cloth under his arm—Mr. Silverberg said, "Oh! it is a thief," the prisoner said, "It is only Jones"—I locked the street door, and Mr. Silverberg seized him—we always keep the parlour door locked—the cloth is my father's.

Cross-examined. The only light was from the fanlight—it is a-tea-roomed house; we have two lodgers who have young families—we keep the parlour locked—the prisoner did not say "It is Only a joke."

Re-examined. The lodgers had no right in the parlour—the prisoner is not a friend of any of them: quite a stranger.

GEORGE YOURLL (Policeman H 122). I was called, and saw the prisoner struggling with Silverberg, and several women in the passage—I charged him, he made no answer—there was no key in the parlour door when I saw it—no force had been used to either door—the cloth was half in the parlour and half in the passage.

BERNARD HARRIS . I live with my father at this house—on 16th March I put four rolls of stuff in the parlour, about three o'clock, and locked the door—the key was kept on a nail in the kitchen—on the evening of

the 17th I was in the kitchen, heard a noise in the passage and went for a policeman—I saw the parlour door fast at nine o'clock that evening.

Cross-examined. The front door key was also kept in the kitchen; I was there when this happened, and had been there a quarter of an hour.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I never had any roll of cloth under my arm. I was taken to the cell: when the charge was made. I was brought out and heard it read. I was not in the parlour. I was in the passage."

GUILTY.* Nine Months' Imprisonment.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-387
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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387. HENRY TURNER (22) , Robbery with violence on Charles Yarrow, and stealing a purse and 5l., his property.

MR. HOCKHOFF Prosecuted.

CHARLES YARROW . I am a carman, of Thornhill Common, near Epping—on Saturday, 5th March, about 11 p.m., I was in Commercial Road, and met the prisoner and two women—they all three knocked me down at once, and the prisoner struck me on my mouth and eye with both fists as hard as he could—I was insensible, and when I got up I missed my purse and between 4l. and 5l.—when I got up I saw Phillips running after the prisoner; they both got out of my sight—I saw the prisoner a few minutes afterwards at the police-station, and recognised him.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I was unsensed at first, and said that you were not the man, just for the moment—I had been running, and was out of breath—I did not go to the Princess Alice between the time I was robbed and the time I went to the station; and I never saw you there—I expressed a doubt the first time the inspector asked me, and then I said that you were the man—I was not drunk; I had had two or three glasses—when you were stopped I said that you were not the man, as I had been running, but directly I got to the station I recognised you—when you had your hand in my pocket I said "You thief"—I sat down on a chair at the station, but not because I was drunk.

JOHN PHILLIPS . I live at 19, Pitt Street, Tottenham Court Road—on 5th March, between 11 and 12 p.m., I was in Commercial Street, and saw the prisoner running—I am quite sure of him—I heard a cry of "Stop thief; the vagabond has got my purse"—he dodged the prosecutor round the lampposts, and I joined in the pursuit—the prosecutor was bleeding at the mouth—the prisoner ran down the street as hard as he could into a public-house, the Princess Alice, I think—that is about 200 yards from where I heard the cries—I stepped outside, and saw the inspector bring him out in custody—Yarrow said outside that he was not the man, but the inspector knew that he was—when Yarrow got to the station he said, "That is the b—thief."

Cross-examined. Yarrow had had a drop of drink—the inspector asked him to sit down because he was exhausted in the chase—he did not say three times that you were not the man—I can say that you are the man; I did not say so first because I was frightened of your pals giving me a good hiding—I did not lock them up, because they would murder me if they had their will—since I have been subpoenaed, my life has been a misery through your pals threatening me.

By the COURT. I mean that the prisoner is the man I saw running; I did not see him do anything.

ALFRED HOLLOWAY . I am barman at the Princess Alice, Commercial Street—on Saturday, 5th March, the prisoner came in about 10.30, and

remained till 11 o'clock—he then went outside and came back in seven or eight minutes, and the inspector followed him in and took him outside—there is a urinal on the premises.

Cross-examined. Yarrow said several times that you were not the man—he was under the influence of liquor—you left a glass of ale there, and came back and drank it.

Re-examined. The prisoner came in alone, went out alone, and returned alone.

WILLIAM HAMMOND (Police Inspector). On 5th March, about 11.30, I heard a noise in Commercial Street, but saw nothing to account for it—after a minute or so I heard a cry of "Police" 200 or 300 yards down the street, and tailed a constable to go there—I then saw the prisoner running towards me in front of a cab, about 80 yards from me—I stopped him and said "What are you running for?"—he said "I am going to the public-house; I have been out to make water"—several people said, "It is all right, policeman," and no one coming up to make any complaint, I allowed him to go into the public-house—a minute afterwards Yarrow came up, bleeding from his mouth; his trousers were disarranged, and he said that he had been robbed—I went into the public-house, and told the prisoner I wanted him outside—he had a glass half full of drink in his hand, and came out rather reluctantly—I asked Yarrow if that was the man who robbed him—he said "No," and repeated it two or three times—I was not satisfied, and told the prisoner I should take him to the station for further inquiry—I took him there, left him with a constable, and went out for a quarter of an hour—on my return Phillips was there, and the prisoner was being charged; and Yarrow said, "He is the man"—the prisoner said that he had not robbed him; and I am quite sure he is the man—I saw him running for about 80 yards before I stopped him.

Cross-examined. Yarrow was the worse for drink, but not drunk and incapable—he sat on a chair at the station—there is no urinal in that street, nor near the house, unless it is inside.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "When the prosecutor came back he said that it was not me, but at the station he said, 'That is the b—thief,' and he was drunk."

Prisoner's Defence. I am quite innocent. I went out to make water, and went to the nearest place. I would not go near the private houses, as they would prosecute me. I went about 50 yards. It was raining, and I ran back to get my half-glass of ale, which I had left on the counter.

WILLIAM HAMMOND (Re-examined). 6 1/4 d. and a small penknife were found on him—he was out of breath, and had not properly recovered it when I went into the public-house.

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-388
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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388. ALFRED ROWE (22) , Robbery with violence on William Tincombe, and stealing his watch and chain.

MR. A. B. KELLY Prosecuted.

WILLIAM TINCOME . I am a labourer, of 39, Old Gravel Lane—about 12.30 a.m. I was in Fortunate Place, Shadwell—I had been drinking—the prisoner and others came up and said "Shall we show you the way?"—I said "I know my way and I can go myself," but they persisted and followed me—I was able to walk and knew what I was about—knowing

a person at 5, Fortunate Place, as they were round me I knocked at the door, and knocked a second time before it was opened; I then turned round to back myself in, and the prisoner struck me a violent blow on my left eye, knocked me down in the passage, and took my watch from my waistcoat pocket, leaving the guard hanging and breaking the bow from the watch—my eye has been black for three weeks—I found this swivel on the spot at 5 o'clock next morning—I knew the prisoner by sight well, but did not know his name—I have passed him in St. George's many a time, and am certain he is the man.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I did not give you in charge because I became insensible—you and your companions followed me from the Bell public-house—I had much to do to keep them away.

MARY ANN NICHOLSON . I am married, and live at 5, Fortunate Place, Shadwell—on Saturday morning, about 12.30 or 12.45, I was awoke by a scuffling outside the door, and heard Tincome speak, but did not recognise his voice—he said "Keep your hands off me; I do not want anything to do with you"—he knocked at the door—I said "Who is there?"—he said "Bill"—he had his back to the door, and as I opened it he backed in, and as soon as he was inside the prisoner knocked him down and laid on him, and took his watch from his waistcoat—I told him to keep his hands off him—I knew the prisoner well by sight, and said "That will do, Rowey"—he went out, and Tincome sat on my bed perfectly helpless; he was the worse for drink, but he had his senses—the prisoner came back in two or three minutes, and said "Pay me for my hat"—I said "Let him alone; who is to pay him for the watch he has just lost and his hat?"—the prisoner said that he would have to get up, and wanted to take him off the bed and take him out—they called him Ted—several others were there—I said that I would not let him go out—the prisoner said "No, you had better not let him out"—my husband was there—they came sneaking up by the wall three different time's to see if he was coming out—I saw the prisoner take the watch; it did not fall in the struggle.

Cross-examined. As soon as you cleared away I went out and gave information; that was an hour and a half after it happened—I was in my night-dress, and was afraid to go out—I have been threatened ever since—I did not say to you "Good-night, Rowey, I will tell him who brought me his high hat, and he will give you a drink of beer in the morning."

DANIEL COX (Policeman HR 40). I received information from a constable and took the prisoner in the London Docks, on 14th March—I told him the charge—he said "All right, I will go with you; I know the man who lost the watch, but I am innocent"—I had not mentioned Tincome's name or said anything about a watch—he was placed with several others at the Station and Tincome identified him.

Prisoner's Defence. He asked me where Mary Ann lived who used to be on the streets, and he went to the house and busted the door in, and went straight through and fell on the bed. A man in the room said "What does this man want?" She said "He is a friend of mine, a relation." They were jawing in the room, and she wished me good-night, and said she would not forget to tell him to give me a drop of beer in the morning. I heard no more of it till I was taken.

GUILTY . He then PLEADED GUILTY to a previous conviction in October, 1878.— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-389
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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389. WILLIAM ROBERTS (36) , Unlawfully obtaining 5l. 10s. of John Brown by false pretences.


The COURT considered that as the prisoner had an account at the bank on which the cheque was drawn, although his balance there war only 12s. 7d., that might have arisen from his inadvertently overdrawing; and even if not to, he might expect his bankers to pay so small a sum, and that therefore he ought to be acquitted.


THIRD COURT.—Friday, April 1st, 1881.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-390
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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390. ALFRED JERVIS (37) PLEADED GUILTY to two assaults on Edward Taylor.— Judgment Respited.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-391
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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391. GEORGE SMITH (20) , Burglariously breakings and entering the dwelling-house of William Henry Bishop, with intent to steal.

MR. BRINDLEY Prosecuted; MR. PURCELL Defended.

WILLIAM HENRY BISHOP . I live at 35, Mildmay Grove, Islington—I am a clerk—I went to bed about 12.30 on 12th March, and fastened the. front door; the back kitchen was fastened—about 4 a.m., I was disturbed by a policeman walking into my room—we opened the bedroom window and saw a man climbing over the garden wall at the back of the house from my garden—I partly dressed and we gave chase—we found the prisoner in an adjoining garden secreted in a dusthole belonging to 53, Mildmay Park, which is at right angles to Mildmay Grove about 60 yards distant—the prisoner was taken to the station and asked if he had any one with him—he said "No"—my cousin slept in the parlour on a temporary bed on the floor—the prisoner told the constable at the station that he tumbled over my cousin—I found my back kitchen window open—we missed a pair of trousers, which we found in an adjoining garden.

WILLIAM BISHOP . I was at 35, Mildmay Grove on this night, sleeping on a bed on the floor in the front parlour—about four o'clock I was aroused by the prisoner falling over my boots on to my bed—I said "Is that you, Tommy?"—we call my cousin "Tommy"—the prisoner said "No—yes, yes," as if he was frightened—I said, "I know it is not"—I tried to find my boots, and he ran out of the room and against the banisters, and I heard him say "Oh!"—it was rather dark—I waited to hear whether he went anywhere—I put on my trousers—I heard the sergeant pass, and let him know through the window—we searched for the prisoner—we could not find him in the lower part of the house—I went upstairs—I heard a noise in the back garden—I raised my cousin's window, and saw the prisoner on the skylight of the steam laundry, at the end of the garden—I had no light in my room, but I saw the prisoner's height—I heard his voice, and I saw him running away.

THOMAS BROCKWELL (Policeman N 11). About 4.40 on this morning. I was passing 35, Mildmay Grove—Bishop opened the breakfast parlour window, and from what he said I climbed over the railings and entered the house—I searched the lower part of the house without finding anything—I went into the first-floor front room while Bishop went to see his mother—I heard a cry of "Police" from Bishop—I looked out and saw the

prisoner climb over the wall of the Conference Hall at the back of the house—I went downstairs, and along Mildmay Park, while Bishop went round Newington Green—I found a man detained by a constable—he satisfied me that he was not the man—I went to the back of No 35, climbed several walls, and searched the gardens, and eventually found the prisoner in a dustbin at the rear of 53, Mildmay Park—I dragged him out—he was not very clean—I said, "I shall charge you with burglariously entering 35, Mildmay Grove"—he said, "I own I did it, hunger drove me to it"—I took him to the station—I searched him, and found a knife, a screwdriver, and a box of silent matches—I left another officer in charge, and went back to the house and found it had been entered by the back kitchen window being lifted up, the catch had not been fastened for some time—I found this old bag in the wash-house—it does not belong to the occupants—I found the trousers in the yard of No. 15, Mildmay Grove.

WILLIAM HENRY BISHOP (Re-examined). These are my trousers.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I plead guilty to the first charge—I know nothing about the other."

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-396
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown; Not Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Corporal > whipping; Imprisonment > penal servitude

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396. JOHN CLUTTON (20), FREDERICK FREEMAN (23), JOSHUA SMITH (17), JOHN GREEN (21), and JOHN READY (20) , Robbery with violence on Marshall Hall Higginbottom, and stealing a breastpin and a pencil case from his person.


MARSHALL HALL HIGGINBOTTOM . I am a surgeon, staying at the Midland Hotel, St. Pancras—I live at 56, Shakespeare Street, Nottingham—about 12.30 on 6th of March I was returning to the hotel—I passed a coffee stall at King's Cross—a man spoke to me—I identified him at the police-court, but I have had a serious illness since, and I have a very confused memory, and there were a number of prisoners—the man said, "I am in a very destitute condition, I have had nothing to eat for a great many hours, will you give me a cup of coffee?"—I felt sorry for him, and said, "You shall not only have a cup of coffee, but some eggs and bread and butter," and I paid for some—another man immediately afterwards came up and said, "I am just in the same fix"—I said, "Well, you shall have the same"—I started then for the Midland Hotel—I gave them 6d.—I had never seen them before—when near the hotel I noticed the man who had told me he was hard up following me—I turned round—he said, "You are late, the front door of the hotel is closed; they have been making alterations in Brewer Street, and you can get in by the side door, I will show you the way"—I followed a short distance down the street—I said, "I do not see the any side door," and was going to retrace my steps, when I was seized forcibly by the throat, first the hand seized me, and then the arm went round my neck, and the man in front of me struck me a violent blow with his fist on the chest, and knocked me down on the ground—he took my pin and then put his arm round me—I believe I was kicked on the head—I held my watch firmly in my hand, and called "Police" as I was falling—others came up and I took them to be thieves—one said, "I am a detective"—I said, "What proof have I of that? you may be one of these fellows"—he took out a pocket book to show me his card, when one of the men struck him a violent blow, and he fell alongside of me—I lost

my diamond pin, 3l. 15s., a pencil case, my surgical instruments, and a good many other articles—I was examined at the police-court on 8th and 9th March—I had a better recollection then—I spoke of two—this is my pin.

Cross-examined by Freeman. Very likely I said it was you at the police-court—I cannot swear to you now.

Cross-examined by Ready. I cannot swear to you—I did not identify you at the police-court—I did not see you at the coffee stall—I treated two—others were round me.

Cross-examined by MR. COLE. It was between 12.30 and 1 o'clock—I did not identify Green or Ready.

Re-examined. I have been 10 days under my doctor, Mr. Ransome, at Nottingham—I went there the day alter—I could not swallow for two or three days, my neck was quite black, my tongue was swollen and a little cut on one side—my age is 58—paroxysms of difficulty in breathing came on two or three times—I have scarcely slept—I have nearly relinquished my profession—I attend to consultation practice.

Cross-examined by Clutton. I showed no marks the next morning—the bruises came out afterwards—I did not show a scratch.

JOHN OTWAY (Police Sergeant Y). On the night of 7th and 8th of March I was on duty in plain clothes with Clifford and Gilby, two other officers—I saw the prosecutor at the coffee still; the prisoners were round him, Clutton and Freeman being close and conversing with him—the prosecutor appeared to be paying for their coffee—the prosecutor went towards the Midland Hotel—Glutton went with him—the others went in the same direction, but on the opposite side—Clutton left the prosecutor and joined the others at St. Pancras Road—they all went towards the grand entrance of the Midland Hotel, but on the other side of the way—when near the hotel, Clutton crossed, followed by the others—Clutton spoke to him—they turned down into Brewer Street, the prisoners following—I heard a cry of "Help" and "Police"—we found the prosecutor on the ground—I and the two other officers seized Clutton, Freeman, and Smith, who were on the top of the prosecutor; Green and Ready escaped—Clifford rushed after Ready, but missed his hold—I pulled Freeman off—he had got the prosecutor by the throat, holding him down, while the others were rifling his pockets—I handed Freeman over to Clifford, and afterwards took Clutton—Gilby took his pocket-book out to show the prosecutor—Smith struck him a violent blow on the side of his face and threw him to the ground—Smith kicked like a madman—we took the three to the station—I took Green, at 10 o'clock the next night, in a public-house in the Euston Road—I told him I should take him for being concerned with others in custody with assaulting and robbing a gentlemen in Brewer Street that morning, just before one o'clock—he said "I know nothing about it"—I know all the prisoners.

Cross-examined by Clutton. The coffee-stall was between Farringdon Road and King's Cross Road, leading to Pentonville; I was from 50 to 70 yards from you.

Cross-examined by Freeman. You were two yards off when I saw you on the ground.

Cross-examined by Cole. The coffee-stall is about 250 yards from the station—the robbery occurred about 50 yards down Brewer Street.

Re-examined. I had seen the prisoners earlier the same night drinking at the White Hart, and in the street.

WILLIAM CLIFFORD (Detective Sergeant Y). I Was with Otway and Gilby, and saw the prisoners together early in the evening in the White Hart, Euston Road—we were keeping observation upon them—we saw the prosecutor at the coffee-stall between 12 and 1 o'clock—I saw Clutton with him; I was about 10 yards off—the four others came to the stall—I saw the prisoners have some refreshment, and the prosecutor take something from his pocket—they stood for some time at the coffee-stall—the prosecutor moved away—Clutton followed him on the same side of the road, and as far as I could see he was speaking to him—the others followed on the other side of the road—Clutton went and spoke to the other men—he came back to the prosecutor before he got to the Midland Hotel, and was followed by Freeman—the prosecutor turned down Brewer Street, by the side of the Midland Hotel—the prisoners followed—the gentleman had not been a minute round the corner when I heard a cry of "Murder" and "Police"—we dragged Gilby along, so that the prisoners should not notice us—Gilby acted drunk—we pretended to be taking a drunken man home—I saw Clutton, Freeman, and Smith on the top of the prosecutor, and the others round him—they were pulling his clothes open to get at his property; they seemed to be all pulling him about—the prosecutor said, "They have got my pin"—he was holding his watch in his hand—I have got the pin here—his waistcoat was torn open, and his coat covered with mud; he was lying in the road from the footway—I tried to get hold of Ready, but he slipped away—I seized Freeman; he struck me on my chest and stomach—we got assistance after a quarter of an hour—I have no doubt as to the identity of Ready and Green.

Cross-examined by Clutton. I was about 60 yards down Brewer Street—I have measured it—I said between 60 and 70 at the police-court—it did not seem a minute after you turned the corner; but I had not my watch.

Cross-examined by Freeman. I was about 20 yards from you in Euston Road—we all made a spring together at you when we were within five or six yards.

Cross-examined by MR. COLE. The illuminated clock at the Midland Station was out—it is alight till 11 or 12 o'clock; I am not sure.

JOHN GILBY (Policeman Y 472). I was on duty with the other officers in plain clothes—I shammed being drunk—I saw the prosecutor at the coffee-stall; Clutton and Freeman were receiving refreshment from him—all five were there—I saw the prosecutor apparently paying for something—the prosecutor appeared to wish Clutton good-night—then the prisoners went across the road—Clutton followed the prosecutor to the corner of Euston Road, close by his side—Clutton then left the prosecutor and crossed over to the other side—the prosecutor continued to walk on—Clutton or Freeman followed the prosecutor into Brewer Street; the others crossed and followed immediately—they all disappeared round the corner—I and the two sergeants got to the corner as quick as we could—we heard shouts of "Murder" and "Police"—I saw Clutton, Freeman. and Smith in front of the prosecutor—Green was on my left hand as I took Smith in custody—I saw Smith have hold of the prosecutor's back; he was stooping—I pretended to be drunk, and was carried along by Clifford and Otway, and when we got close to the lamp-post we rushed upon them—I took Smith and Clutton—Otway took Clutton from me—the

gentleman still continued to halloa "Murder" and "Police"—I said, "We are police officers"—the prosecutor said, "How do I know that?"—I took this book from my pocket—he said, "That will do"—at that moment Smith struck me a tremendous blow on the side of my face, kicking me at the same time—I fell, with him on the top of me—I put my book in my mouth to get hold of him with both hands—he bit my little finger—two constables came up and we took him to the station.

Cross-examined by Clutton. I watched you about 20 yards off—I saw you drinking coffee, and talking to the gentleman—I saw you at the White Hart and hanging about.

Cross-examined by Freeman. I was from 30 to 50 or 60 yards off—I could see you distinctly.

Cross-examined by MR. COLE. It was about one o'clock—the Midland clock is put out at 12—I did not notice it; I kept close behind Clifford and Otway.

Re-examined. I was dressed like a labouring man—we did not want the prisoners to know we were policemen.

WILLIAM WITHAM (Policeman Y). On 8th March I took Ready at the Dolphin public-house, Tunbridge Street, Euston Road—I said "Johnnie, I am going to take you in custody for being concerned with three others in knocking a gentleman down in Brewer Street the night previous, and stealing his gold pin"—he said, "I know nothing about it"—Clifford came in and said, "That is one of them"—we then proceeded to the station—he asked what time it was done—Clifford said, "Between one and two"—he said, "I can prove I was at home and in bed by 10 o'clock; my mother will prove that"—he gave me an address, and I went and saw his mother—I have seen her here to-day.

Cross-examined by Ready. Clifford told me you were one of the men we wanted, and we had been looking for you—your mother told me that you came home at 11 o'clock the night previous, not 10 o'clock.

JOHN WRIGHT . I am manager to Charles Barnet, pawnbroker, of 141, Euston Road—I produce a pin pledged on 8th March by a woman.

Ready's Statement before the Magistrate. "I was in bed at 10 o'clock on Monday night and did not go out afterwards."

Witnesses or Ready.

MARY READY . I am John Ready's mother—he was in at 10 o'clock, and no one went out after that—we were all in bed at 11 o'clock—I live at 11, Church Way, Euston Road.

Cross-examined. I did not tell Sergeant Witham. it was 11 o'clock when my son came home—he is always regular, and never out after 11 o'clock—we all sleep in the same room.

ELIZA BEADY . I am John Ready's sister—I leave off work at nine o'clock, and reached home on Monday night about 10.15—my brother was in then—he had his supper and went to bed, and never went out after that.

Cross-examined. My brother is generally in before me—I know the other prisoners by sight, but not to speak to—I never saw my brother with them.

Clutton's Defence. I was going home, and saw a row, and went to see what it was, and they were taking these men. Otway toys, "You are concerned in this; I know you of old." I said, "Well, if you mean having me, you most take me," and then I was taken.

Freeman's Defence. I was returning from a music hall, and saw a crowd in Brewer Street, and went to see. I was kicked about the legs and knocked with an umbrella and handcuffs. I have the marks now.

Smith's Defence. I saw a row coming up Brewer Street, when the detectives knocked me and the prosecutor down, and struck me with the handcuffs, and took us to the station and searched us and found nothing on us. How could I take his pin when it was pawned the next day?

Ready's Defence. Clifford says he had hold of me. Otway says one thing and Clifford another. Which are you to believe?

Witnesses for Green.

CATHERINE GREEK . I am Green's mother—I live at 78, Stanley Street, King's Cross—my husband, John Green, is a carriage-cleaner in the service of the Great Northern Railway—I heard of this robbery on the Tuesday night—on the Monday night Mrs. Ryan, whom I had known for years, visited our buildings about 9.30—this evening I locked my front door before 12 o'clock, because, when I went to my room, the Midland clock was alight—it is never alight after 12 o'clock—I have lived there 14 years—my son was in bed when I locked the door—he assists a firewood dealer—he bears a good character, and is a most obedient boy to his father.

Cross-examined. My husband and children were at home and in bed—we have several rooms on a flat—John sleeps with his brother—he was in bed before his brother—Joseph is not here because of the expense—Joseph came in about 11.45, and John about 11.30—he always comes home early, about 11 o'clock—Mrs. Ryan visited a sick lady in another apartment, and I saw her when she left—Mrs. Saunders told me of John's arrest, not Mrs. Ready.

Re-examined. I have no acquaintance with Beady nor his sister—I visited my son in prison the day after he was taken.

MARY ANN RYAN . I live at 38, Caledonian Street, Caledonian Road—I am married—I have known John Green from a child—he has borne a good character—on Monday, 7th March, I went to see a lady who was near death, at the same model lodgings that Mrs. Green lives at, about 8 p.m.—I saw John Green about 11.20 in the passage—I was going to see his mother, but finding it so late I altered my mind—I was talking to him about 10 minutes—I was on the stairs—his sister told me he was in custody on the Wednesday morning.

Cross-examined. I went to see Mrs. Lee—I had visited her all her sickness.

MRS. SAUNDERS. My husband is a firewood dealer—I live at 22, St. Pancras Road—I have known John Green two years—he has borne a good character.

Evidence in Reply.

JOHN OTWAY (Police Sergeant). I have seen Ready three or four nights in the week—I have seen him out as late as one or two a.m. dozens of times—Stanley Buildings is almost 200 yards from the Midland Hotel.

CLUTTON** and SMITH**— GUILTY . They further PLEADED GUILTY to previous convictions of felony at Clerkenwell, CLUTTON in March, and SMITH in November, 1879.— Five Years' each in Penal Servitude, and Twenty Strokes with the Cat.

FREEMAN— GUILTY. Five Years' Penal Servitude.


NEW COURT.—Saturday, April 2nd, 1881.

Before Mr. Recorder.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-393
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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393. CRAWSHAY CRAWSHAY (33) , Embezzling 32l. 9s., 60l. 6s., and 46l. 15s. 4d. of the Local Board of Heston and Isleworth, his employers.

MR. CLARKE, Q.C., MR. CRESWELL, and MR. BOXALL Prosecuted; and MR. WILLIS, Q.C., and MR. LOCKWOOD Defended.

HENRY BIGNELL . I am a farmer and cattle dealer, of Lampton, near Hounslow, and have property in Stratford Road and Osborne Road, Hounslow, abutting on the new road—I was called on to pay a contribution of 230l. 16s. 5d. towards the expense of the new road—my solicitors, Messrs. Russell, paid 32l. 9s. towards that amount by my instructions, and I received this receipt (produced) signed by the prisoner—this is his signature.

WILLIAM MANN . I am accountant to the Brentford Gas Company—I produced an account for 60l. 6s. for work done for the Board—I sent this cheque dated 16th July, 1880, and the form of receipt with it, which was returned to me signed by the prisoner.

GEORGE HESSOM . I live at Hounslow, and own property in Inverness Road—I had to pay 46l. 16s. 4d., and saw my wife hand the money in gold, notes, and copper to the prisoner, who gave the receipt—I saw him sign it on 30th of July, the day it bears date.

GEORGE STANLEY MEESON . I am a Justice of the Peace, living at Isleworth, and am Chairman of the Heston Local Board—the prisoner has been in their service since Nov., 1874—his salary at first was 150l. a year, which has been increased to 175l.—he also had a commission of 5l. percent, paid to him for new roads—this book of regulations bears his signature—it was his duty to attend the Finance Committee on all occasions, and to keep the surveyor's cash book, and produce it to the committee on the 2nd and 4th Tuesday in the month—the treasurer is the London and County Bank, Hounslow—it was the prisoner's duty to pay into the bank the sums received by him—he was supplied with the receipt book—it is headed "Heston and Isleworth Local Board"—it was his duty to give those receipts for money received on account of the Board Only—he also produced from time to time to the committee, apportionment sheets, purporting to show the amount still unpaid in respect to the new roads—they have been searched for since he has been in custody, and cannot be found—on Wednesday, 23rd of February, in consequence of suspicion I looked into the prisoner's account, and the meeting was adjourned to Saturday, the 26th, when we having missed several sums, asked the prisoner whether he could account for them not being entered in the bankers' book, or in his cash book—he said "No"—I then said "Tell me how much you have taken, 500l.?" he said "No"—another member said "400l."? he said "No"—I asked him to tell me what he had taken—he said "About 300l."—I asked Mm what he had to say—he said "I am very sorry"—this was at the Town Hall, Hounslow—the investigation was continued on the following Monday, and in consequence of what was discovered I gave him in custody—this surveyor's book is in his writing (Several entries were pointed out where the amounts charged did not appear in the accounts)—I have been carefully over the books in the prisoner's writing, and find that the Board has never received these three sums—a

resolution was adopted in May, 1878, "That the surveyor be paid 5l. percent, upon the cost of repairing streets"—he was paid that percentage, and always by cheque—there is also a resolution of 8th January, 1878, that the commission was not to be paid till all the money was paid—he had no authority to retain any money in his possession.

Cross-examined by MR. WILLIS, Q.C. I found this book kept by the prisoner in his office—I have gone through it, and ticked the items in it—I do not find in it an entry of nearly all the money I suppose to have been taken to make up the deficiency—I found at page 25 "Stratford, Grosvenor, and Osborne Roads," and various sums, are marked "Not accounted for"—I find on March 9th, "Bignell 50l.," against which is written "Not accounted for," but he has entered the 50l. In the New Roads book—I find a great many of the sums I charge him with taking entered in this book, but there are no dates except the word "May" in one place—he did not say when I first asked him about the amount, "I am sorry, but I shall be glad to assist an accountant in examining the state of the books"—nothing of the kind—I read him a resolution which I had drafted, stating that an accountant would be employed to assist in the investigation, and he acquiesced—Mr. Register and Mr. Marshall were with me when I first spoke to him—I do not think we paid for keeping our banking account—the prisoner, I am told, kept an account at the same bank, so that the clerk would know of his account—the Government officer audited his accounts, and the Finance Committee—I think about 150l. was due to him for commission—if he paid for labour in his office he always had a cheque in advance of it—he did not keep a horse and trap with the sanction of the Board, he may have hired one—I have seen him in a small cart—he had to look over about 45 miles of road, and it might be 60 including the new roads not yet dedicated—his district was about 6,942 acres—the banking account was always placed on the table for me to see—I had no idea that he was paying cheques of the Board in to his own account—Mr. Denne ought to have told me of it—the prisoner generally endorsed our cheques for the new roads—I know to my astonishment that several cheques of the Board have been paid into his account—I do not know that certain allowances were due to him for attending certain inquiries at Worthing, Edmonton, or Aylesbury—a resolution was passed that the travelling expenses of the Board should be paid to go to Worthing to investigate a process of sewage, and at my request the prisoner accompanied us, and his expenses were paid—Mr. Wyon was present on the 28th, and the prisoner was called in from time to time, but he gave us no assistance whatever—the Board was not equally divided about prosecuting him—I was disinclined to give him in custody, as I thought the Committee should not usurp the functions of the Board—there was no division.

Re-examined. My reluctance to give him in custody did not arise from any doubt as to his criminality—he has been paid on the completion of every road since 1878—nothing was due to him till he had accounted for the whole sum—there was no outstanding claim by him against the Board—there is no other matter in which they owe him money—I have gone through this receipt book; all the items entered on the counterfoils are duly entered as received, in the surveyor's cash book, but there is one receipt for a sum in this indictment which has been taken from this book and not entered, that is Mr. Hessom's on 30th July, 1880—I find

one receipt has been taken out, and there is a blank counterfeit—the account book which we supplied to the office ought to have been submitted from time to time to the Finance Committee—here are a series of items on page 26 occupying 8 or 10 lines, which have been, duly accounted for, then comet a series of items under the head of "May, 1878" which have not been accounted for, and afterwards here is "March, 1879"—I find in my own writing here, "Q. Have you received these amounts? A. Yes. Q. Have you paid the amount into the bank? A. If they are not in the bank book I have not paid them in." My initials are attached to that statement—I think I first saw those items on the 26th or 28th.

JAMES MARSHALL . I am a member of the Hounslow and Isleworth Local Board—I was a member of the Finance Committee 12 months up to 8th March last—we had the surveyor's book and cash book produced—this is the cash book, he should enter all receipts in this column—the chairman took the Finance Report and read the accounts, and another member took the bank book to see if they corresponded. This (produced) is the bank book, and this the official receipt book, which was produced occasionally, not every time—it was the prisoner's duty to take the receipts out of the book as he received money, fill up the counterfoils, and pay the money into the bank—in the oases which, had come before me I found the counterfoils duly entered—we examined the pass book more minutely on the Special Committee—all these items entered in the counterfoils are duly entered in the treasurer's books—this receipt (produced) is on the official form, but I do not find a counterfoil for it—they are not numbered—in searching his drawers we found a great many receipts which had been torn out of books like these, and some of these (produced) as well, which have evidently been printed on purpose—this (produced) is not an official book, it was never brought before the Finance Committee till I became a member and asked for it; the other members did not know of it—when the chairman asked the prisoner why he did not produce the other book, he said that it had been produced to the Works Committee, of which I was a member—I demanded it, and the prisoner was instructed to fetch it—I fist heard of the book at the end of 1879—the prisoner kept it in his room—I asked for it afterwards, and one occasion the prisoner said "I have not the book here, it has gone to a person to be made up," and he went away for half an hour to a man named Lampton for it—it had been made up recently—items under the heads of "Pavements," "Roads" were entered up to a certain dates; most of them have dates—those amounts have not all been paid in—they have all been paid in up to March, 1879, but not afterwards—all the top ones have been paid in, and all the bottom ones have not, from where the prisoner's writing commences—on 11th February a report was made by the Finance Committee, and the result of that was a Special Committee on 13th February to investigate the prisoner's accounts—I was a member of it—the prisoner was present that day—I took the bank book and cash book, and one of the other members took another book—all the sums in the private cash book were accounted for in every case—we adjourned to the 26th, and then continued the inquiry, and then adjourned to the 28th, when we had Mr. Wyon, an accountant, to go through the accounts with us—I have examined the pass books, and Mr. Bignell's, Mr. Mann's, and

Mr. Hessom's accounts are not paid in—I did not receive any information from Mr. Denne that any amount had been paid in to the prisoner's private account.

Cross-examined. I have been a member of the Board from its commencement, and of the "Works Committee, but I went off that—I did not know of this book being kept nearly all the time—I should say I first knew of it about 1877; that was three years before the investigation—I joined the Finance Committee in October, 1879, and then I thought it right that this book should be brought—I inquired many times what people owed money in respect of roads—the Board kept a list of the persons among whom the expense was apportioned—here it is—we sent the prisoner to them to know what moneys they had paid—he was sent as a natural thing—I had no suspicion then that people had paid road expenses which had not reached us, but I was told that he was living extravagantly, and beyond his means—I went on the Finance Committee because I thought things were wrong—when the resolution to employ Mr. Wyon was communicated to him he said, "Very well, I will be here," and consented to render us every assistance—he was in and out of his office on the Monday, and we called him in several times when he was wanted—it commenced at 10 o'clock and finished at 6.30—he went out to lunch—he rendered us all the assistance he could—we had a special committee about the commencement of 1880 to find out how much was outstanding in respect of the roads—we then went into three or four roads, and found the accounts nearly right—there was a little matter of 3l. or 4l., which he said he did not know whether it was collected or not, but he would ascertain—there were other roads to go into, but the collection was not finished—we got the banker's book and the cash-book, and were satisfied that it was all right—I did not want to take his character away, and I dropped it altogether—when the chairman said that we had found three or four small items unaccounted for, and asked if he could explain it he said, "No, only that I suppose I have had the money, and have not accounted for it"—some one, I think the chairman, said, "We must go into this, and investigate the whole thing"—I don't know whether the chairman used the word "accountant," but the prisoner said that he should like the whole thing gone into, and employ an accountant, and he should be prepared to meet the amount—he agreed to it, but I don't think he suggested it.

Re-examined. The assistance he gave was, when we could not find an account entered, we referred to him, and he said "Yes, I suppose I have had it and have not paid it in"—he answered every question put to him.

WILLIAM REGESTER . I am a member of the Heston Local Board, and till 10 months ago I was a member of the Finance Committee—I have been a member of a special committee to investigate the accounts—this (produced) is a receipt signed by the prisoner, dated 22nd May, 1878, for 55l. 3s. 9d., given on behalf of the Board to Mr. George Saunders—this is the next account tendered by the prisoner, and that amount does not appear in it, and it has not been accounted for to the Board, to the best of my belief—I have searched his cash book and the banker's pass book—this is a receipt given by the prisoner for 20l. 10s. 1d.—I find that 6l. 10s. was paid in afterwards, and the balance of 14l. has not been accounted for—this receipt for 36l., given by the prisoner to Mr. Neville on 20th December, 1878, is not accounted for in his cash-book, and the cheque

for 36l. Is endorsed by him, and there are other instances—between May, 1878 and February, 1880, about 1,600l. Is unaccounted for, and in all those cases no counterfoil appears in the official receipt-book.

WILLIAM ROBERT DENNE . I am manager of the Brentford and Hounslow Branch of the London and County Bank—Mr. William McEwan is the treasurer—ever since the Board started, their accounts have been kept there—on 15th April, 1880, the prisoner opened a private account of his own, and since then he has paid in to his own account cheques endorsed by him, but which were given to the Heston Local Board—I have a copy of his credits here—this cheque for 60l., drawn by the Brentford Gas Company, was paid in to his private account, and other cheques indicated in this book.

Cross-examined. I knew he was paying in these cheques to his own account—it is the usual custom for collectors of Local Boards to have a private account—I believe he drew a cheque on his private account and gave us money—he has paid money in and then drawn a cheque on his private account in favour of the Board.

Re-examined. I cannot exactly tell how often that has happened—I have got the waste-book here, with copies of all the accounts—I have not got the ledger here; I produced everything before the Magistrate—I believe the prisoner has his pass-book—my subpoena was to produce what books I had.

GUILTY. Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutors. — Two Years' Imprisonment. There were other indictments against the Prisoner.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-394
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

394. JOHN SIBLEY (23), THOMAS PEARSON (20), and EDWIN BOUCHARD (24) , Stealing 6 pounds of beef, 8 pounds of mutton, and other meat, of Thomas Curnich and others, the masters of Sibley and Pearson, to which


MR. PURCELL Prosecuted; MR. FULTON defended Bouchard.

THOMAS CURNICK . I am in partnership with my brothers as meat contractors and butchers, at 7 and 8, High Street, Marylebone—Sibley and Pearson were in our employ, one did a contract and the other a round—it was the duty of both to take meat out of doors—in consequence of missing meat we began to keep observation, and on 7th March, about 6 a.m., I was in my private office, which looks into the shop—I can see through a reversible blind—I saw Sibley take a piece of beef while Pearson endeavoured to hide him as much as possible—Pearson was between my brother and Sibley—Sibley took the beef outside and put it into Pearson's cart—they came back; Sibley then took a leg of mutton from the back part of the shop and handed it to Pearson outside, who put it in the cart—meat which is intended to be taken out is placed in what we call barges with four handles, and not at the back of the shop—these two joints were not taken from barges, and had not been weighed—on 9th March, about 6 a.m., I was at the same place, and saw Sibley take two ox kidneys and two pounds of steak from a table at the back of the shop and put them into the cart, and Pearson drove off with them—I communicated with the police—Pearson was in the habit of supplying the lunatic asylum at Banstead.

Cross-examined by Sibley. We employ 22 or 23 men—I have seen you take meat before, but I wished to catch the receiver—you have been robbing me for some time—there were eight or nine men at the back of the shop, but there was no one at the table you took the meat from.

ARTHUR HERBERT CURNICK . On the evening of 11th March I marked some meat with my brother, and left the shop—next morning, Saturday, about 6, I was in the private office watching the shop—I saw Sibley take a piece of sirloin of beef from the back board and put it into Pearson's cart—it had not been weighed—it was not taken from a place where meat had been weighed ready for going out, it was one of the pieces I had marked over night—I then saw him take a piece of steak and a bullock's kidney, and put them into the cart—they had not been weighed—Pearson only had to go to Banstead asylum and schools—that meat was not ordered for the asylum—I went out, met Brown, and we went from London Bridge to Sutton, where I went into a public-house nearly opposite Bouchard's shop—I looked out at the window, and after some time my cart driven by Pearson passed on its return from Banstead—he drove 20 yards past the house, pulled up round the corner of the side street, and went into Bouchard's shop with a parcel wrapped in sacking—Bouchard was standing at the door—after about five minutes Pearson came out without the parcel, went back to his cart, and drove away—Brown went after him and then returned to me, and we both went to Bouchard's shop—he was serving a customer—Brown said "What meat is that that the man just brought here"—he said, "I know nothing about it"—Brown said, "Both I and Mr. Curnick saw him give it to you"—Bouchard said, "What! do you mean the meat the man brought when I was out at the back, there it is," pointing to the parcel under the counter which I had seen Pearson take in—Bouchard opened the bag and it contained the piece of sirloin and the kidney, which I had seen in the morning—the sirloin had the mark on it which I had put on on the Friday night—Brown said, "I shall take you in custody for being connected with this robbery"—Bouchard said, after a pause, "Well, I suppose it serves me right."

Cross-examined by Sibley. We have been missing meat for about a month—I do not remember you saying, "If it should be proved that I am not guilty will you take me back into your employ again"—I had no particular cause to suspect you more than anybody else—I entered the office about 5.30 on the Saturday morning—the door was open when I got there—you and the other men were supposed to come at 5.30—I did not mark the steak or the kidney—I left the marked meat hanging upon the rails—I made a slight stroke on the back of the sirloin—nobody was told not to take the marked meat.

Cross-examined by MR. FULTON. I could see Bouchard's shop from the public-house—I had been there previously watching him and knew him—it is an open shop—Brown was in plain clothes—we both went out and separated—I turned on one side and pretended to be looking into a shop window, and when Pearson took the meat into the shop I am sure he did not notice me.

Re-examined. I had been down to Sutton twice before watching Bouchard's shop, and saw Pearson on both occasions, but did not see him go to Bouchard's shop then.

WILLIAM GODSELL CURNICK . I am one of this firm—on the morning of 12th March I was assisting to get the meat ready—I knew that my brother Arthur was watching from the office—I saw Sibley take a piece of sirloin of beef from a board at the back of the shop and take it outside to Pearson's cart—I had marked that sirloin the previous

night—it was worth about 6s.—I saw it again when it was produced from Sutton.

Cross-examined by Sibley. I believe we had a good character with you—I have suspected you for about a month—I marked about 20 pieces of meat the night before, principally beef—I cut it with a knife on the back—either I or Todd let the men in that morning—I should have noticed if you had not come—I did not see you take the steak and kidney, only the sirloin.

ALFRED BROWN (Detective D). On Saturday morning, 12th March, I went with Mr. Arthur Curnick to Sutton—we went to the Greyhound public-house, watched from the window, and saw Mr. Curnick's cart pass, driven by Pearson—he drove about 20 yards beyond Bouchard's shop and then turned up a side street, got out with a bundle under his arm, and went to Bouchard's shop—I don't know how long he remained in the shop, as I left and went to the Angel public-house, where I stopped Pearson and had a conversation with him—I then went back to Bouchard's shop with Mr. Curnick—as I went in Bouchard said "Good morning, Sir"—I said "Are you the master of this shop? Where is the meat which was brought here by a man just now?"—he said "I have had no meat brought in just now"—I said "You have, for I and Mr. Curnick saw it"—he said "Oh, you mean that which the man hrought while I was in the back, there it is," pointing under the counter—the parcel was pulled out and opened—it contained some beef—I said that I should take him for receiving it knowing it to be stolen—he said "You are not going to lock me up, are you? let me stop till to-night"—I said "Yes, I must lock you up now"—he said "Oh! I suppose it serves me right"—I took him to the station and then went to Mr. Curnick's shop and took Sibley—I told him it was for being concerned with Pearson in stealing some meat that morning—he said I beg your pardon, suspected of stealing"—I said "No, being concerned in stealing it"—he said "I am sorry to think I am placed in this position, but I showed to you and to Mr. Curnick that I am not the man."

Cross-examined by Sibley. You said to Mr. Arthur Curnich "Will you grant me one thing? If it should be proved that I am not guilty will you take me back again?"

JOHN DANIEL JONES . I am in the service of Curnick and Co.—I have known Bouchard about three months—I had a conversation with him at the Plough, Clapham, after which I went to the shop—my business is to drive a cart and take out meat.

Cross-examined by Sibley. I gave evidence for Mr. Curnick at the police-court, and stated that I had been robbing him for three months.

Bouchard's Statement before the Magistrate. "A detective came to my shop. He asked me where the meat was I had bought. I said I had bought no meat. He said 'Yes you have.' I said 'There is the bundle of meat a man left here.' I then pulled it out for him."

Witness for Sibley.

THOMAS PEARSON (the Prisoner). I have pleaded guilty to this charge—three pieces of meat were found in the parcel which I took to Bouchard on the 12th, the piece of beef and some steak and kidney—I got it from Mr. Curnick's shop and took it from Banstead, where I helped to take the meat in—a young man named Brown helped to put the meat in the cart, and you put some in—it was weighed—I saw every bit come from

the scale before it was put into the cart—when we got to Banstead Asylum the butcher gave me some ox kidney and steak for dinner.

By the COURT. I mean that I stole the meat from Banstead Schools—I pleaded guilty to that, not to stealing it from my master.

Cross-examined by MR. PURCELL. Sibley put some of the meat into my cart at Marylebone—he took that from the scale—I can't say whether I saw him take all the meat which he put into my cart—I did not see any of it come from the back part of the shop—the butcher at Banstead gave us some meat for our dinner, which he did every time we went there—Brown was with me—he told me to take it to Bouchard's, and said "Ask Bouchard 10s., he is sure to bate you."

Witness in Reply.

JOHN BROWN . I am now in the prosecutor's employment—on 12th March I went with Pearson to Banstead—we took some meat to the schools—I did not see Pearson take away a sirloin of beef from the schools—it is untrue that I told him to take a sirloin of beef to Bouchard and that he would get 10s. for it.

Sibley; in his defence, stated that it would be impossible for the meat to be taken from the back of the shop without some one seeing, and contended that the steak and kidney could not be sworn to, not being marked; that the meat which was marked weighed 60lb. or 70lb., and that the only meat which he ever took out was weighed.


BOUCHARD GUILTY of receiving. Fifteen Months' Imprisonment. PEARSON.— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

THIRD COURT.—Saturday and Monday, April 2nd and 4th, 1881.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-395
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

395. WILLIAM WALKER (60) , Burglariously breaking and entering the premises of John Maygrove, and stealing a quantity of silk. Second Count, Receiving the same.


CHARLES THOMAS MUNT . I am in the service of John Maygrove, a silk merchant—I reside at 227, Bethnal Green Road, and manage his business there—on 5th March I returned home about a quarter to 12 o'clock—I examined the premises, and saw that all was safe before I retired to bed—about 6 a.m. I was aroused by a neighbour, Mr. Cooper, of the Board School—I found the front door unbolted, and the bars of the windows broken; the window had been lifted out—it is a skylight window, which lighted the room from the roof—that gave free access to the whole of the premises—a sheet of glass had been taken away—two bars were broken away, and a rope was attached to the two that were broken away—I have no doubt an entrance was effected through the skylight—the drop from the skylight was nine feet, but there were racks, so that he could get down like on a ladder—the door was left unlocked—the three bolts were all undone—I searched the place—I have a very large stock, and could not tell at once what was missing—this bundle of Surdah Organzine, known in the trade as "Brown's throwing," I believe is mine—Brown has been dead some years—I missed this bundle from the stock; it is about 4lb. 6oz.—it was weighed in my presence, and weighs the same as the bundle I lost—I had only this one bundle on the premises; it was sent to

me from Maygrove's as a sample—I also missed two bundles of white China sewings, weighing about 25lb.—this bundle (produced) is of the same class of goods—the bundle found on the prisoner's premises weighed 12lb. 10oz.; that returned by the Parcels' Delivery made 13lb. 6oz.—I have not the slightest doubt it is the same; I recognised it by its weight, its throw, its dye, and its bundling—the bundles are made up for dyeing purposes, and this is made up in a different way to what silk is generally made up in—I identify the whole, of this property as mine, but I have no means of proving the dyed silks—upon taking stock I find I am 12lb. short of dyed sewings.

Cross-examined. This is an invoice from Arthur Hulme, of 3 and 4, Great Winchester Street Buildings, of 26th August, 1878—"musters" are all kinds of silk—I said at the police-court, "I cannot swear positively to the organzines," because there were other parcels about—I also said "Organzine is sold at different sales"—they have taken off my strings and put on common strings—this is not dyed up as my silk is—I did not say, "I cannot swear to any of the silk"—I said, "If it costs me my life, I will find out who stole it"—I have pawned silk with Mr. Russell, of Fore Street, about 18 months ago—I was not employed by any one then; I pawned for Mr. Scrace—my last master was supposed to have lost two bundles of silk—I was his market clerk—I was employed by Mr. James—he did not lose any silk to my knowledge—I had open orders to go and buy in the market, and when the prompt became due, he had not any money—Mr. Maygrove demanded an explanation, and I told the truth—he may have said, "Well, I have engaged you, let us hope what you say is true"—I was 10 years in James's employ—he did not charge me with dishonesty—some of the customers belong to me, and there is a lawsuit now pending—he gave me a bad character, but last week he gave me a sovereign—he said I was a drunkard—I was apprenticed at Cutler's then—I was 10 years with James and Co., of Coventry, at their London house; and 18 months, in the employment of Reginald James, after the dissolution of the partnership—it is not a fact that every person in whose employment I have been has lost silk; only two have—I said at the police-court that these silks are alike, but one is a little coarser than the other.

Re-examined. I did not break and enter the premises on 4th March, and take away the silk.

JOHN MAYGROVE . This silk is my property—my business is at 227, Bethnal Green Road—this bundle weighs 4lb. 6oz., and corresponds exactly with the quantity stolen from my place; and it is made by a man who died five years ago—I have about 160l. worth of Surdah Organzines—there is no demand for it while the Italian silks are so cheap—I bought it at a public sale about 18 months ago—if it had been boiled and dyed it would have destroyed its identity—I know this by its being made up raw for dyeing—the residue corresponds with that which I lost in every respect—the value of the whole of the property lost was about 73l. sterling—I received this parcel from the Parcels Delivery on the day following the arrest of the prisoner—the exact weight was 13lb.—there are 15lb. of dyed sewing, 19lb. 4oz. of warp, 1lb. 6oz. of sewings, and 4 gross of crape cord, which makes up the total quantity lost, with the exception of 12lb. of dyed sewings—I have known John Hay since this happened—I saw him at the police-court instructing

Counsel—I had a visit from him at Bethnal Green Road—he mentioned the prisoner—there are a great many people who carry on this business at the end of London where I carry on mine—I said at the police-court I had sold silk to the prisoner—I know Mr. Scrace, a silk dealer; I have done business with him—I know Edmund Hughes—I know Mr. Hulme, who carried on business at 3 and 4, Great Winchester Street Buildings—I swore at the police-court to the specialty of this; it is a specialty of silk altogether unsuitable for that district—I have my books in Court, including my ledger account—I buy largely at sales—I have bought Brown's Surdah Organzines at sales, but not frequently—Munt has been in my employ since 1st December—he came from Mr. James—I did not go to Mr. James about something James said—I had a guarantee and a reference from F.B. Carr and Co.—if Munt says James spoke to me about him he is under a wrong impression—I may have told him I should go, but I did not go; I have never seen Mr. James.

WILLIAM HEATH . I am manager of a silk mill—I have been recently executing orders for Mr. Maygrove—I identify these two bundles of China sewings by the make; I have not the slightest doubt they are port of my consignment to Mr. Maygrove.

Cross-examined. I have not seen any silk exactly like this in the make—this piece which you produce is our work; it is exactly like the prosecutor's—I cannot tell you where it came from—the works are under my superintendence.

JOHN MAYGROVE (Re-examined). I sold a bundle of China sewings to Mr. Hay, who is in the silk trade.

Cross-examined. It was sold from my Bethnal Green branch, without my knowing, after the prisoner was in custody—I cannot tell you what we have sold at various times, but we might have sold two or three bundles—I cannot remember from memory the, names; I could tell you from the ledger—I have 30 or 40 people in my warehouse, and I cannot remember the exact transactions—I sold one to Mr. Manchi and one to Mr. Hatton, I think, but I am not sure.

Re-examined. The young man is not here who sold it—I see this entry in the book, "March 11th, 11l. 4s. 8d."; that is the money value of the china sewings.

WILLIAM WARD . I am a dyer at Bethnal Green—on 14th March the prisoner said to me, at my place of busines, "Can you dye me a bundle of silk a nice bright black, quick and sharp?"—I replied "Yes"—he said "If you can do that a nice colour I will give you a bundle of sewings."—it takes three hours to boil—I said, I would do it; he said he would send it round—I went out—I afterwards found some silk had been sent; to the best of my belief this bundle of Surdah Organzines is the same one—in consequence of information I received, when I saw the bundle I made a communication to the police—they came, and I gave it up to them—I would not swear if when I boiled it it would have destroyed its identity.

Cross-examined. The prisoner requires silk to cover buttons which he makes—it would have to go through two processes; it would be boiled and then dyed—he has been a customer of mine; his place is about 100 yards off—I have not received a circular about the robbery—the prisoner sent an ordinary messenger.

GEORGE WRIGHT (Police Sergeant H). On the 14th March I called on the witness Ward—in consequence of a telegram received later in the day

I went to his premises, and received from him a bundle of Surdah Organzines—from what Ward said I went to the prisoner's premises with Sergeant Thick—I saw Thick enter the house, while I kept observation, between 12 and 1 o'clock—when he came out I went in with him—I said "Mr. Walker, we are two police sergeants; we want to see you respecting a bundle of Surdah Organzines that you sent to Mr. Ward's this morning to be dyed"—he said "I do not think I did; if I did I have the invoice inside"—I said "That is part of the proceeds of a burglary"—we went inside, the prisoner took down some papers to find the invoice for more than half an hour; he did not find it—he then threw them down and said "Look for yourself"—I said "You must consider yourself in custody for receiving stolen property"—Thick commenced to search the house—he asked Thick if he had a search-warrant—Thick shortly afterwards produced the bundle produced of China sewings—Mr. Munt came in afterwards and identified this bundle—Thick said "How do you account for the possession of this?"—the prisoner said "I bought it two years ago"—Thick said "This also is stolen property"—he said "Well, I bought it last September"—at the station I showed him this bundle of organzine, and I said "This is the bundle we received from Mr. Ward, the dyer's"—he looked at it; he said "Yes, I bought it off a man named Brown, about three months ago, but I do not know where he lived"—he was placed in the dock and charged—in a conversation the prisoner said "I admit sending it; I bought it at No. 2, Winchester Street Buildings."

Cross-examined. I believe he had been drinking; he was more excited than drunk—I see among these invoices you produce the name of Arthur Hulme, of 3 and 4, Great Winchester Street, of "Long Thrown Musters"—I never saw it before—I found a great many invoices and receipts; I have not them here—I did not look at all of them; I told the prisoner if he had any to bring them to the station, and take charge of them, because they might be useful to him.

Re-examined. I did not find the invoice of the Surdah Organzines.

WILLIAM THICK (Police Sergeant H). I accompanied Wright to the prisoner's premises—he first said he purchased the silk two years ago; then that he purchased it last September—at the station he said he bought the Surdah Organzines of a man named Brown, and he did not know where he lived; subsequently that he bought them at 2, Great Winchester Street Buildings—I found the China sewings under a counter in the shop.

Witness for the Defence.

EDWARD SCRACE . I am a dealer in silk, of Broad Street, City—the prisoner has bought of me—this is an invoice of China sewings supplied to him on 18th January, 1881—this bundle produced is something like it—it is very difficult to swear to, silk is so much alike—there may have been organzines in the musters I sold the prisoner—I have seen plenty like this organzine—this silk is sold in the market and at public sales—I have been in the trade 19 years.

Cross-examined. I would not say the silk produced is that referred to in the invoice—these two silks are much alike, one is a little finer than the other, that is all—this is made up for dyeing—I have my silk made by Messrs. Frost of Macclesfield to supply the trade—dyeing is not my trade—there is a difference in the make up of these two bundles—that

is a trifling matter—I should not like to swear to one from the other—I had some organzines a few months ago—the sale is very bad, because Italian silk is cutting it out—Italian silk is worth more—it is better—that is the reason Italian silks are not used for making buttons.

Re-examined. I have sold 20,000 pounds of China sewings this year—I have heard of Watson and Sons—I knew Mr. Hulme, but he is out of business now—I have always understood some of the silk is used for buttons, but that is out of my trade.

GUILTY of receiving. He was further charged with a conviction of felony at this Court, on 1st March, 1869. To this he PLEADED NOT GUILTY.

JOHN ROBERTSON . I am a warder of Pentonville prison—the prisoner was convicted on March 1st, 1869, for the same kind of offence—he hadten years' penal servitude , and there isfour years' penal servitude recorded against him—I know him well—under the usual circumstances he would get two years and four months' ticket of leave—his sentence expired in 1879.

Cross-examined. He was at Pentonville eight or nine months—that was about 11 years ago—I swear to him—I picked him out from 100 to 150 at Pentonville—I received him in my custody after he was convicted—I can produce his photograph if necessary.

GUILTY. The Prosecutor recommended him to mercy on account of his age. Five Years' Penal Servitude.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-396a
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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396. SAMUEL FINDING (35) , Being a bankrupt, and not discovering to his trustees a certain amount of his property. Other counts varying the form of charge.


FRANK KINGSTON . I live at 33, Greville Street, Bedford—I am clerk to the County Court of Bedford—that Court has jurisdiction in bankruptcy—I produce the proceedings in the prisoner's liquidation—he is described as of 59 and 61, Well Street, Bedford, tobacconist and jeweller—the petition of Lisard and Son of Holborn Circus, wholesale watch importers, and of Jules and Naudman, trading in copartnership with Naphthali and Heath as Naudman and Heath, 11, Hatton Garden, wholesale watch importers, is dated the 22nd of October, 1879—the prisoner lodged his petition stating he was unable to pay his debts on the 17th October, 1879—his statement of affairs is of that date—the assets are 283l. 18s. 4d., made up of stock in trade, estimated at 165l. 10s., book debts 26l. 8s. 6d., estimated to produce 23l. 19s., cash in hand 8l. 6s. 10d., furnitnre, fixtures, and fittings 84l. 12s. 6d., "property as per S. G." 1l. 10s.—his liabilities were 2,080l. 11s. 9d.—the trustee was appointed on the 20th November, 1879—that was Mr. John Sear, of 23, Holborn Viaduct—the first meeting of creditors was on the 20th November, 1879—it was held in the County Court Office, St. John Street, Bedford—the transcript of the prisoner's examination is on the file—it is dated the 5th of February, 1880—it was held at the Shire Hall, Bedford—the interrogatories are on the file—they are answered by the defendant—they are dated the 6th of January, 1880. (Read, stating he was insured for 1,300l., that he had received 160l. on 10th April, 1879, on account of a fire which took place about the 13th March, 1879; the salvage was valued at 60l., the average cash sales were 130l. a week, that he also received from Mr. Morley 100l., and won 50l. in small sums at races,

that his cash payments were 100l. across the counter, purchases 2,200l., that he had told 2,000l. worth of goods since the fire, and could give no particulare or explanation of the deficiency). There is also on the file an order signed by the Judge of the Bedford County Court on 31st March, 1881, directing the prosecution of the prisoner (produced).

Cross-examined. I cannot give you the Counsel's name—I do not see any on the file—I do not know that Mr. Grain was the Counsel.

MICHAEL JOSHUA SHANESY . I am a shorthand writer of 31, Brereton Street, Bedford—in February, 1880 I took the shorthand notes of the examination of the defendant in bankruptcy—I produce my original notes—I made a transcript, which is upon the file (produced)—it is a true and correct copy (Read).

HENRY ISAAC . I am a member of the firm of Isaac Druith and Co. of 63, Hatton Garden, wholesale opticians—I know Finding—he made purchases of me in June, 1879—I saw him personally about the 27th—he said he had taken two new shops, and was about to open them—he selected articles amounting to 200l. 12s. 11d.—I was to have half cash and half on the usual terms, which would have been a bill at four months—it was a larger parcel than we should have trusted him with had he not been going to open a new shop—he did not pay the half cash—the goods were delivered—in consequence of communications he paid oar representative on the 23rd of July a cheque for 25l. 12s.—I drew upon him one bill for 100l., and one for 75l. at four months—those bills were dishonoured—I did not know he was buying similar articles from other firms—he did not say so—I deal with retail shops—the goods I sold him would last him a considerable time in a country retail shop—I have never received any of the 175l.

Cross-examined. Our terms vary; sometimes we give four months—if I have said the usual terms, I correct that; these were special terms, on account of its being a large parcel—I dealt with him previous to the fire—he paid me after the fire all he then owed me—I do not know where he got the money from, unless it was from the fire; he did not tell me—I know the amount from what I saw at the meeting of creditors; I think it was something like 800l.—I did not know he kept a tobacconist's shop till some time after I supplied him with goods—Mr. Sear sold his goods; I do not know how—I never conversed with Mr. Sear about this case—he told me on one occasion they had been sold; I could not say for what amount.

JOHN FISHER . I am manager to Messrs. John Greenwood and Sons, clockmakers, of Farringdon Road, Clerkenwell—we did business with the defendant prior to his fire—in July, 1879, he had paid for all he owed, amounting to 19l. 11s.—I saw him on 27th July, 1879, at our warehouse—goods amounting to 68l. 2s. 3d. were forwarded to him; they were clocks, watches, and musical boxes—this is the invoice of July 1st—I have not been paid—the terms were three months' credit—I believed he was going to sell the goods by retail in the ordinary way of business.

Cross-examined. I did not hear of the defendant's fire from him, but from Mr. Youngman; I heard he was insured for 1,000l.—his first account with us was 12th April, 1878—I said at the police-court the prisoner had dealt with us three or four years prior to 1879; I was asked generally, and I said three or four years—our salesman wrote down the order—I thought it was June 28th at the police-court.

Re-examined. I had not looked at my ledger, but was speaking from memory at the police-court.

BECKETT STEPHEN PEACOCK . I trade as John King and Co., electro platers, 9, Red Lion Street, Clerkenwell—I had one settlement with the defendant for over 14l.—on the 27th of June he selected goods to the amount of 106l. 5s.—he said he had got 1,000l. from the insurance company on account of his fire, and he was going to buy the house and shop he occupied—I wanted cash, but he said he could not part with it as he wished to buy the property and mortgage it—I said "You must give me 50l. In cash"—he said "I will give you 25l. and a bill for the remainder"—the bill was payable four months from the 1st of July—this arrangement occurred on 29th June, after he had selected the goods—I went to Bedford and saw him on that day—the goods were sent to him on the 4th and 7th July—I saw two small shops at Bedford; one was a tobacconist's, the other had nothing in it except cases—I saw some of my goods in Mr. Bowman, the pawnbroker's, window—I am a creditor for 78l. 1s. 6d.; I have only been paid the 25l. on this account—this sugar basin is part of the goods.

Cross-examined. I never forced a farthing's worth of goods on him—he did not tell me he only wanted 50l. worth—I did not press him to have the whole—I said at the police-court he selected 106l. worth of goods, I asked if he would pay half the money down; he said he did not wish to part with any money, as he wanted to purchase the property where he was living—he was to purchase first and mortgage afterwards—I cannot say that I mentioned the mortgage at the police-court—I also said he went away; I added the goods up that he had selected and found they came to 106l.; I then went to Bedford and saw the defendant there, on or about June 29th—I corrected the date at the police-court, and the clerk told me there was only one "28th" there—I did say the goods came to more than I was disposed to let him have on credit—I received the 25l. cheque in London on the 1st or 2nd July; it was forwarded to me—I do not know Mr. Sear sold the goods; I never heard of it.

RICHARD THOMAS BOWMAN . I am a pawnbroker and wholesale jeweller, of 7, Goswell Road—this sugar basin was pawned with me, with other similar goods, by the prisoner, in October, 1879, in the name of Mann—the value of the goods was about 30l.—he gave his address as Brace Street, Bedford—I could not tell you the amount I gave, under 20l.—he never asked me to pawn goods which I refused.

Cross-examined. I do not know Mrs. Hawkins of 185, Barnsbury Road, Islington, nor Miss Delaney—the intrinsic value of the goods was what I gave for them—I believe Mann was brought by a dealer named Lyons—I have known Lyons for about 10 years—Mann did not mention the name of Finding—I looked upon him as principal in the matter.

Re-examined. I knew George Mann was a confectioner.

DANIEL NORRIS HALSEY . I live at High Street, Ealing; I am a traveller for Messrs. Lesard and Sons, watch importers, Holborn Viaduct—I had had transactions with the defendant previous to his fire; I have been in his shops at Bedford several times; he had two shops, a tobacconist's and a jeweller's adjoining—he had given me a cheque for the balance of his account, 8l. 19s., I think on the 24th of June—on the 19th June, 1879, I supplied him a parcel to the value of 70l.; I took the order in May—he said he wanted to replenish those lost in the fire, and when he had settled with the insurance company he would pay as much cash as possible—I went to his place in September and applied for the

70l.—our terms are three months; I had promised him extra discount, that would be five per cent.—he said he had not yet settled with the insurance company; I believed his statement—when I went in September he said "I have no money"—I said "Do not, for mercy's sake, talk in that way; I expected at least 50l."—he said "I cannot pay any money, as these two houses are about to be sold at auction, and I intend to buy them"—I said "Do you mean to tell me that you fitted up these two shops and had no protection from being turned out?"—he said "I can give as good a price as any one," and that he would not be required to pay all the money down, but merely a deposit, and then said, "I must pay all before I can mortgage them," or "I can mortgage the property and then I shall be able to pay you all," or something of that kind, and that it would be all settled in a month—I said, "I am very sorry, but as it cannot be otherwise I will draw on you at a month"—he said, "You had better make it a month and six weeks divided into two amounts," which I agreed to do—I sent the bills by post; they were not paid; the two bills were for 35l. each—he would do about 10l. or 12l. a week; his shop is pretty good—it would be impossible to do 130l. a week—I did not know that he had a traveller named George Mann—I should not have parted with the goods if I had known Mann was travelling about the country with them; I should not look upon that as legitimate business—70l. worth of watches could not be disposed of in that shop in a legitimate way in three months—I have never been paid the 70l.

Cross-examined. I only heard of the insurance money from the defendant—I had two other customers in Bedford; I have none now—I have not continued my trade there; I was so disgusted with the Bedford trade after this affair that I have not thought it worth while to go—I said at the police-court I did not know anything of the tobacconist's business; I meant the takings of a tobacconist's trade—I never knew George Mann—the goods were delivered on the 24th of June—I did not know the houses had been sold and he was going to buy them back—I never heard the insurance money was paid—I thought his stock was worth about 600l.—it was in September when I saw nothing but cases in the shop—I am not clear about the date.

DANIEL FORRESTER HORNER . I live at 31, Mortimer Road, Kingsland—I was a traveller to Messrs. Rowley and Co., of No. 6, Mount Pleasant, Clerkenwell, till last Saturday; they are wholesale opticians—before his fire the defendant had dealt with us to small amounts—on the 22nd or the 24th July I called upon him—he selected and ordered spectacles, glasses, &c., to the value of 81l. 11s. 7d.—these are the invoices, dated July 24th, 28th, and 29th, August 18th, and September 10th, 23rd, and 24th, 1879—those goods would have lasted in a shop of the description of the defendant's two or three years—I believed he was going to sell them by retail; I should not have sold them if I had known he was going to send them about the country by a traveller—the account of one journey was to be paid on the next—I was only paid the 10l. received previous to this order.

Cross-examined. I may have said from 6l. to 10l. at the police-court, certainly it never exceeded 12l.—my depositions were not read over—I did not sign them—I was not bound over to appear at the trial.

JOHN BARNARD JACKSON . I live at 8, Leg Lane, Birmingham—up to November, 1880, I traded there as Jackson and Perren, wholesale jewellers—I

did business with the defendant for about 12 months prior to his fire in March, 1879—at the date of the fire he owed me 36l.—he paid me by cheque about the end of April—I saw him after the fire; I asked him for an order; he gave me no order then—afterwards, in June, in consequence of a letter I received from him, I went to Bedford, taking some stock with me, and the defendant selected watches and jewellery to the amount of 283l. 9s.—I left the stock with him—I asked him to pay 150l. in cash—he said, "I wish to buy two houses which are or will be in the market, and I would rather wait till I see if I buy those houses before I part with the cash"—I left the goods and received no money—I left him a diamond ring of the value of 16l.—if he did not buy toe house I was to have the 150l. all the same—the balance was to be paid the next journey in four months' time—on the 4th December I got a bill—a few weeks afterwards I applied for the 150l.—on the 11th August I supplied him with, watches and other goods to the value of 60l.—the total goods which I have supplied him for which he has not paid, amounted to about 378l.

Cross-examined. I wrote the memorandum I was looking at in my own office two or three days before I went to the police-court—it was taken from the books—they are in Birmingham—I have known the defendant about two and a half years—I was not mixed up with him in betting transactions—I saw him at the meeting of creditors in June, and once since when the liquidation commenced—the whole of the 378l. was supplied after the fire and when the insurance company paid the money.

JAMES SMALLEY . I am a traveller for Messrs. Cavanagh and Co., Great Eaton Street, London, manufacturers and importers of cigars—we are creditors of the defendant for 161l. 9s. 8d.—143l. of the goods were supplied in June, 1879—I have not the other dates—I sold him the goods in his shop—I should say the cigars would last him six months.

Cross-examined. That is my opinion based on experience in the trade—I was asked to give evidence nearly a month ago by the solicitor for the prosecution—I never saw the detective in the case—I have been to Bedford a good many times—I dined with the witness Jackson at the Holborn Viaduct Refreshment Rooms—I dare say the case was mentioned.

ALEXANDER STOESSEGER . I am a watch importer, of 72, Hatton Garden—I am a creditor of the defendant for 72l. for goods supplied on June 17th and August 6th, 1879—I drew two bills at three and five months for 36l. each—I believed he was dealing as a retail dealer—if I had known he was sending goods about the country I should not have supplied him.

Cross-examined. I did not press him to pay before his bill became due—I pressed him for some cash, and he gave me 20l. on the 17th June—I have liquidated and paid 14s. In the 1l.

RICHARD ARNOLD . I am manager to Messrs. Goodes, manufacturers and importers of cigars—they are creditors of the defendant for 24l. 17s. for goods supplied on the 6th August, 1879—our terms were for tobacco 2 1/2 discount for cash, and one mouth net; cigars 2 1/2 cash and three months net.

FREDERICK WILLIAM CRINELL . I am clerk to Messrs. Williamson, jet and silver jewellers, Farringdon Lane, London—he is creditor for 15l. 14s. 9d., for goods supplied on 1st July, 1879.

ALFRED LONG FIELD . I live at 35, Adelaide Square, Bedford—I am

an accountant—I know the defendant's two shops—they are both about 10 feet square—I went on the 4th of July in consequence of a letter I received from a London firm, and saw his stock—it was small, and consisted of inexpensive goods—I subsequently went again—the stock had very much improved both in quantity and in the class of goods—that was in September—I was appointed receiver on the 20th October—I took possession of the shop—it may properly be described as a skeleton—there was one gold watch which I valued at 40s.—I had an invoice of Jackson and Perrens, and I asked him what had become of the expensive goods, and I referred to the gold watches and diamond ring—he said they had been sold—I asked him to trace them—he said, "I think you are making a good deal of unnecessary fuss about them"—I am not sure of the exact words—I said, "I am simply doing my duty"—he gave no explanation who bought the goods—he might have said, "I cannot tell you," or something to that effect—I said the diamond ring was an expensive article, and the creditors particularly wished to know what had become of it—I went through his stock and valued it at 116l. 12s. 9d. for the jewellery, and with the tobacco, making altogether 165l. 10s.—he said the 116l. 12s. 9d. was too low—I said, "Will you go through it with me?"—he said, "I do not want the trouble," or, "It will take some time"—I said, "I will pay you for your time," and he went through it with me, and we brought it up at his figures to 155l. 18s. for the jewellery—he said, "I have no books"—I handed over the property to the trustee in bankruptcy—I do not know whether he bought the houses, I know they were sold by auction; not by the defendant nor by the trustee—I did not even get his banker's pass book, it was at the bank.

Cross-examined. I heard George Mann give his evidence at the police-court—I heard that he used my name in London at the police-court for the first time—I am not acquainted with Mr. Bowman, I saw him in the box—I acted as agent for the trustee—the goods were sold by Mr. Mercer in the Old Town Hall, or the Old Corn Exchange at Bedford, in the evening—Mr. Sear gave him instructions—a fortnight's notice was given—I do not know who bought the goods, I did not—I always take my figures in cipher—it is customary, and one valuer cannot then see over another's book—I followed the usual course from habit, although there was no opposing party in this case—I did not know Mr. Mann was Finding's traveller—I had heard of the women Hawkins and Delaney—I have heard Mr. Mann was living with Miss Delaney near the Barnsley Road, and that Mrs. Hawkins was living in the Barnsley Road—I have not been there—on my oath—I think Mrs. Hawkins called at my office, 77, High Street, Bedford—she said she could give some evidence—I heard Mann's evidence at the police-court—I heard him say, "I know Mrs. Hawkins of 135, Barusley Road, as a very bad woman"—I have been a witness in the Bankruptcy Court on different occasions, but not in any other Court—I have been an accountant about seven years—I have had offices at Bedford about three years—I was a draper and valuer at Buckingham 17 years—before that I managed a drapery concern at Aylesbury for 2 1/4 years—I left to go to Buckingham as a draper and valuer—I added the accountant's business afterwards, seven or ten years since—I did not hear the defendant explain about the diamond ring at the meeting of creditors—I did not pay attention to the papers which had been read over—I do not recollect his examination.

JOHN SEAR . I am an accountant, of 23, Holborn Viaduct—on the 17th November, 1879 I was appointed by the Judge of the Bedford County Court, trustee of the defendant's estate—my certificate is dated the 20th November—I wrote to the defendant for his books—he delivered up his banker's pass book and two counterfoils of cheque books—the first payment in was April 10th, 1879—the last date is September 18th, 1879—1,112l. 10s. was paid in during that time—the whole of that sum has been drawn out—on April 10th I find a payment in of 860l.—the cheques drawn out in his name amount to 272l. 10s.—the amount drawn out in the name of Mann was 268l. 17d. 6d., and 87l. in the name of Morley—taking the items you would have 470l. drawn out for trade purposes—assuming the payments in the cash book are payments to creditors, there would be 470l. paid out—the real deficiency of the defendant is under 1,800l. according to his statement of affairs—according to my calculation and his answers to the interrogatories it would be 2,397l.—the 860l. Is not included—I heard the defendant questioned as to the deficiency—he said he had lost the principal part of it by betting operations—he was asked whether he had pawned any of the goods, and he said he had not—the date of the information is 19th March, 1880—he was taken into custody about two months back—he was sought after during that time.

Cross-examined. I was asked to be present at the liquidation meeting by Mr. Joule, of Messrs. Naudman and Co.—they are creditors for 92l. 15s.—I have known Mr. Field since the commencement of this liquidation—I said at the police-court I did not ask him viva voce for the books—I asked him by letter—I will read the copy. (Dated November 26th, 1879)—I enumerate list of articles taken away without my permission on the other side—I do not know Mrs. Hawkins nor Miss Delaney—I saw them at the police-court—I have seen Mr. Samuel Mann outside—I have heard of Mr. George Mann—I heard his evidence at the examination of the bankrupt—I was only there at the first meeting—I have had numerous conversations with Mr. Field, principally in my office—Field was asked to act as receiver and manager by Messrs. Conquest and Glare, acting; for two petitioning creditors—Mr. Field and I never conversed about Mrs. Hawkins or Miss Delaney, we did about Mr. Mann—I never heard of those ladies till I was at the police-court.

Re-examined. I got this answer from the defendant's solicitor. (Dated 27th September, 1879, stating that the defendant had no books, but was ready to give all the information in his power.) The reply of the bankrupt is dated December 9th. (To the effect that Mr. Field held all invokes, books, &c. The letters of 30th December, 1879, enclosing interrogations, and January 27, 1880, acknowledging the same were also read.)

GUILTY under the Debtors Act. Nine Months' Imprisonment.

OLD COURT.—Monday, April 4th, 1881.

Before Mr. Justice Hawkins.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-397
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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397. REBECCA ANNE ALGAR CROFT (55) , Feloniously using an instrument to procure the miscarriage of Elizabeth Mary Spicer.


GUILTY .— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-398
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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398. PATRICK BURNS (23) was indicted for, and charged on the Coroner's Inquisition with, the manslaughter of Mary Ann Hennessey.

MESSRS. A. B. KELLY and LEVY Prosecuted; MR. GEOGHEGAN Defended.

MARY ANN BARRETT . I live at 6, Little Pearl Street, Spitalfields, and am the wife of Michael Barrett, a newspaper vendor—the deceased, Mary Ann Hennessey, was my mother, and lived in the same house—on Friday, 11th March, about 5.30 in the evening, I left her—she was perfectly sober—at times she would take more than was good for her, not often—I returned home about 11.15 and found her lying on the bed.

Cross-examined. She was forty years of age; a very peaceable, quiet woman, even when she had a little drink—she never quarrelled with her neighbours—ours is a common lodging-house—I never had any quarrel with the people next door, or any ill-feeling between us.

ANN STRIPLING . I live at 12, Little Pearl Street, nearly opposite No. 6—I am married—the road is wide enough for two vans to pass—on 11th March, about 11 o'clock, I wag at my door talking to a neighbour—I saw the deceased coming along with a man who they said was her lodger—she was crossing over the road to her own door, and just as she got against No. 7 the prisoner came out of that house and knocked her down—he hit her with his right hand on the right side of the head, and she reeled round and fell on the back of her head—I could not say whether his hand was open or closed—the woman who keeps No. 7 came out and caught hold of him by the skirt of his coat, and said "Oh, Patsy, what did you do that for?"—he went away directly—he made use of a bad word when he struck the woman, "You b—cow"—I crossed the road and saw her lying down, and the man who was with her carried her inside her house—I bathed her head with some cold water; she did not speak; her head went first one way and then the other—I said "I think fine is dead."

Cross-examined. It was Mrs. Casey I was with—I had known the deceased three or four yean—the people at No. 7 have not been living there long; six or seven months—the deceased was adapted to a drop at times—she did not seem to be the worse for liquor on this night—I have seen the prisoner go in there of a night at times, and she has come out to get a policeman—I have not heard that there was any smashing of glass on this night—she did not go into the prisoner's place, nor did he turn her out—she had to pass his house to get to her own—I can't say whether his door was open.

CATHERINE CASEY . I am a widow, and live at 3, Vine Yard, Little Pearl Street—on 11th March, about 10.45, I was standing at the bottom of the court talking to Mr. Stripling, and saw Mrs. Hennessey coming across the road going into her own place, and the prisoner came out of No. 7 and struck her at the side of the head with his right hand and knocked her down—I did nothing, I went indoors.

Cross-examined. I did not notice any one with her when she crossed the street—I never heard any breaking of glass—I have known Mrs. Hennessey five or six years, and the prisoner longer—Mrs. Hennessey was a quiet kind of woman—I don't know that she took a drop—I never knew of her being locked up—I cannot tell whether she was drank or sober on this occasion—I never had any quarrel with the people at No. 7.

WILLIAM PROPHET DUKES . I am a physician and surgeon, and reside at 182, Brick Lane—on Saturday morning, 12th March, between 10 and

11, I was called in to see Mrs. Hennessey—she was then in a partially conscious state; we could just rouse her by speaking very loudly and shaking her—she gradually got more and more into a comatose state until she died on 22nd March—I found a contused wound on the right side of the head just above the ear; it was quite a recent wound—there were also bruises on the other part of the head; the scalp was puffy and swollen—blood was oozing from the wound; it had not bled much—I made a post-mortem examination on the 25th; the cause of death was extravasation of blood on the brain, in all probability caused by a blow; it must have been a hard blow; a fall might have caused it—on removing the scalp there were several bruises, some of a recent date and some of an older date, and on removing the skull there was an enormous amount of extravasated blood on the brain, extending round the back of the head; the internal organs generally were diseased, the liver especially indicating a hard drinker.

Cross-examined. I should date the injury from about the time I saw her—I take it that the blow on the side of the head was something harder than a man's fist, unless he had a very hard knuckle indeed—a person much addicted to drink in a violent passion would have a tendency to cerebral haemorrhage—the heart was flabby and soft.

Witnesses for the Defence.

DANIEL SULLIVAN . I live at 27, Duke Street—on Friday night, 11th March, I was in Little Pearl Street—I saw the deceased; she was known as Mrs. Duggan—she was coming down the street singing with a young man; she was drunk—when she got round the corner she stopped and said, "There he is in here," pointing to Mrs. Dalton's house, No. 7, where the prisoner lodged—she pulled her arm away from the young man who was with her, went to the door and burst it open, and went into the passage—I don't know what she did there—the prisoner sent her out; he took her by the arms and took her to the door—with that she went and began punching at Mrs. Dalton's shutters and calling the prisoner all the beastly names she could lay her tongue to—he stood at the door; she went to make a grab at his face, and he caught her under the arms and shoved her, and she fell down—he said, "Don't attempt to hit me"—she fell very gently.

Cross-examined. There were about six of us altogether—they had the same opportunity of seeing that I had—they are not here; they would not come up—I had known the prisoner about four years—there was no fight; there was a disturbance for about 10 minutes; she kept on attacking the prisoner—I did not interfere—I did not see Mrs. Stripling and Mrs. Casey—there were a lot of people in the street—I saw Mr. Mastrell standing at Mrs. Dalton's door.

JOHN MASTRELL . I live at 25, Cumberland Street and No. 7, Little Pearl Street—I have two daughters; one lives at 7, Little Pearl Street, and the other at 25, Little Cumberland Street—on Friday night, 11th March, I was with my daughter in Little Pearl Street—the prisoner was there—I saw Mrs. Hennessey outside—she first of all kicked up a regular bother at the door, and she pushed open the door and the prisoner ejected her—she then went to the shutters and used a volley of vituperative language—she clapped her hands and Raid, "Patsy, you dare not come out"—as soon as he did come out she said, "I will scratch your face"—he said, "No, you won't," and he shoved her with his hands

on her arm, and she fell down on her right side—she was in a terrible state of intoxication, she always was, I never saw her sober—she laid there till some one came and took her indoors.

Cross-examined. I knew the deceased by sight, not by name; I never spoke to her—I was in No. 7 reading with my daughter; she was reading the Leisure Hour to the prisoner; I was reading the Echo—when I went out I saw the boy Sullivan with two or three other lads—the deceased was dreadfully drunk, and fell down on her right arm—I am independent—Mrs. Dalton is a machinist and dressmaker—she occupies the whole house; she lets one room to the prisoner—the house is not a brothel; I never saw any immorality there.

LOUISA DALTON . I live at 7, Little Pearl Street—the last witness is my father—I let a room to the prisoner—on Friday night, 11th March, I was sitting with him in my sitting-room reading the newspaper to him—about 10 o'clock the deceased came and kicked at the door two or three times and called him shocking names, and she burst the door open—she had been drinking a good deal all day—the prisoner put her out and told her to go away—she tried to break the shutters and tried to scratch, his face; I was at the door then—he persuaded her not to break the shutters because he never annoyed her—he said she called him awful names—she said, "The woman never annoys you, what do you want to come and break her windows for?"—she made a grab at his face, and he pushed her on the left arm, and she fell on her right side—I think her head touched the ground—I saw that she was with James Williams when she first came up—there is no truth in the suggestion that my house is a brothel.

Cross-examined. I have lived there 12 months—there are four rooms—the people at the top have just gone away—I have a young woman lodger and the prisoner, and five children of my own—I am a dressmaker; I worked for the deceased's daughter and for her before she died—on this evening I was reading from the Chronicle, which I had borrowed from the "beerhouse—the deceased had been brought home drunk that day, and annoyed me two or three times—she was hardly ever sober—she was very drunk at 2 o'clock, and very drunk at 10—the prisoner had lodged with me since about a fortnight before Christmas.

Re-examined. My eldest child is 17 and my youngest 3—the prisoner pays me 3s. 6d. a week for a small back room.

GUILTY. Recommended to mercy by the Jury, considering that some provocdtion must have been received. Nine Months' Imprisonment.

NEW COURT.—Monday and Tuesday, April 4th and 5th, 1881.

Before Mr. Recorder.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-399
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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399. ALFRED JERVIS (37) , Feloniously forging and uttering an endorsement on an order for 14l. 14s. with intent to defraud.

MR. J. P. GRAIN Prosecuted; MR. SIMS Defended.

EDWARD TAYLOR . I am manager to Mr. Hassey, the nominal proprietor of this business under an assignment—prior to 8th. of March, 1880, I had been carrying on business with my brother at Burstall, Yorkshire, as dyers—we had established a branch in Queen Victoria Street, London, in August, and had a manager there named Nichol, whose salary was 4l. Per week, and 5 per cent, of the profits—the prisoner was second clerk at

3l. per week, and 5 per cent., but I did not engage him—in March, 1880, the firm was compelled to go into liquidation, and on 9th of March they executed this indenture (produced) assigning the London business to Mr. Robinson—that was before the liquidation—on 1st of July, 1880, Mr. Robinson assigned it to Mr. Hassey—when the trustee was appointed of the old firm, this deed was explained to Mr. Good, the trustee—all the particulars were given to him, and from the date of this deed I have practically conducted the London business myself—the defendant acted as clerk up to the 26th of August, 1880—this cheque (dated 26th August) was received by the firm during my absence, and was paid into our bank, who sent it back as being improperly endorsed, and I told the defendant not to endorse in that manner again—it was endorsed "Taylor, Taylor and Co., per Jervis"—the prisoner had not authority to endorse or sign cheques—I sent him to Scotland at the end of September, and had reason to be dissatisfied with him there—I wrote him this letter of 13th October—he had taken his salary weekly up to the time he went to Scotland—I next saw him on Monday, 18th of October, at the office in Queen Victoria Street, and gave him in custody, having ascertained certain facts from the boy and the housekeeper—he was taken before an Alderman at the Mansion House—the charge was partially gone into, and on 26th of October an adjournment was taken I understood for three months—I knew of the 14l. 14s. then, but not of the 26l. 5s.—up to that time I never heard a word from the prisoner as to any alleged partnership—my solicitor made a mistake in the day to which the case was adjourned—I went with him to the Mansion House on 26th of January, and found that the prisoner had appeared the day before, and had been dismissed—I gave him in custody again on 17th of February, on this charge of forgery, and he was committed—he had no authority to sign this cheque, nor have I received any portion of the money—I did not know of it till Mr. Payne wrote between the 18th and 26th—that was why I preferred the charge on the 26th—I left town on the Thursday before the 18th of October, leaving the boy in charge of the office with instructions with regard to the prisoner, if he came—he had no authority from me to take away the letters, or to take any cash after the 13th.

Cross-examined. The business is legally vested in Mr. Hassey—he has given valuable' consideration for it—he undertook to pay all the debts, and has given a cheque for 4l. 17s. 9d., with the understanding that it should never be presented—the business in Burstall was J. C. Taylor and Co., and in London it was Taylor Brothers—it went into liquidation at Burstall; there was a composition deed before that—we failed to pay the composition in March, 1880, and so we had to go into liquidation—I cannot say that Mr. Good is a friend of mine; I never spoke to him; I considered his being appointed trustee the larger of two evils—I did write on 3rd April "We scored one by getting Good in"—I was not impecunious at that time; I had funds when I started in August 1879—the composition deed was in 1879—Nichol has also been in financial difficulties—he has been in the firm of Tobey and Nichol in the same line—I believe Jervis was out of business—he was not in the same line—they were woollen merchants, and the business I was going into was the woollen trade—Jervis, Nichol, and I did not agree to start a firm, Jervis being the only person to work it—we did not meet and talk the matter over at the Cafe de Paris, Ludgate Hill—most

of the creditors knew that I had a London business—I never made an arrangement with Jervis and Nichol to try and work up the London business in the woollen trade on the terms that Jervis was to receive 3l. per week and 5 per cent, net profit, and Nichols 4l. per week and profits—I say that Nichols was the manager—I never had any claim by either of them, that they were anything else but clerks—this letter initialled T. N. was read before the Master of the Bolls. (This contained the words: "To secure your confidence;" "You have pinned us down," and "The development of your business.") The letter was only initialled N. and J.—I recognised their writing—I did not understand what he was driving at in the letter—the letter of discharge was on the 13th October, and on the 12th I issued some circulars. (Stating that after that date they were under the necessity of dispensing with the defendant's services.) I did not know where Jervis was then—I had sent him to Scotland—I had a telegram from him from Scotland; I think on Tuesday or Wednesday the 13th—I sent the notice to his private house in London—he sent out this circular to the customers. (Stating that he repudiated the prosecutor's circular as he was a partner in the firm.) It was on the 16th or 18th that he came and took away the books and letters—I was not in London on the 16th, but I gave him into custody on the 18th, as near 12 o'clock as possible—I did not know at that time that a gentleman had been to my office that day to serve a writ upon me, nor have I learnt it since—I do not remember saying at the Mansion House that I had heard that somebody had called on me before I gave Jervis in custody—I am almost positive I did not—Mr. Wontner was my solicitor there; it was practically said on the first occasion that the books were only taken in order that they might be kept from me until my right to them was ascertained, and an offer was made to me that they should be put in the hands of a disinterested person, with liberty on both sides to examine them, and Mr. Wontner had them—my solicitor received an account setting out the moneys which had been received by Jervis—I have seen it—it set out these two cheques—he gave me credit for them, but that was after he was charged with forging the endorsement—all the documents I charge him with receiving on 27th October were admitted in that account—he had already been charged on the 18th with stealing these two sums, and on 26th with forging the endorsement, and on 22nd October my solicitor received this letter dated the 21st—I received this account on 27th October. (Claiming a balance of about 85l. in the prisoner's favour.) I cannot say the amount from memory—he fabricated an amount and called it profit; I only owed him nine days' salary—he had his money to go to Scotland—I said at the Mansion House "On Saturday last there were three weeks' wages due to him," but that meant that it was three weeks since he received his wages—I said "More than 2l. was due to him on Saturday"—he has never had occasion to sign cheques to my knowledge—we had two Argentine contracts—I have only known within the last three days that he endorsed cheques in those matters—I have sworn "The transactions referred to were made by bills, and not one of these cheques was drawn by the said Arthur Jervis"; that is true; it was a contract with the Army, and our bills were paid; but this contract was with the Navy—I know now that the contract with the Argentine Republic was one in which cheques were received, and that he endorsed those cheques Taylor Brothers and Co.—the moneys were paid to me—the cheques are dated April, 1880; they are for 246l. 15s. 8d. and 51l. 14s.—two

actions were commenced in Chancery; one by Jervis against me and one by Hassey against Jervis—a summons was applied for before Mr. Justice Field for an injunction on 24th October, and since then no action has proceeded—I have not seen an affidavit of Jervis in which he says "I cannot proceed with my said action until the defendant comes within the jurisdiction of this Court, and I have been advised to allow the question of my partnership to be decided in that action"—it is impossible to say what he claimed because he has filed nothing—this writ is dated the 18th, and mine is on the 20th—I went on with my action but failed to prove my statement in time, and an order was made giving me ten days to deliver the statement of claim, I believe—I cannot tell you whether I delivered the statement of claim—Jervis went to my house again on 26th January and 17th February—he again claimed to have the books—he said he had had a letter from his solicitor authorising him to come and see them by force—I cannot say whether he said that my action was dismissed—I would not say that he did not—between 25th January, when the charge was dismissed at the Mansion House, and his coming on 17th February, I took a criminal proceeding against him—I applied for a warrant at the Mansion House, and I believe I was refused; that was not on the same charge; the charge on the 17th Feb. was for assault—he lifted up his umbrella against me twice, but did not strike me—I was trying to prevent his taking the books—I did not give him in custody for assault—I did have him taken in custody; that was for attempting to steal the books; two of the very books he had been charged with taking at the Mansion House—I did not know that he denies my account of a cheque of the Great Western "Railway Company—I never said to him that in consequence of my having borrowed money, the banking account ought to be kept in my hands because I was solely answerable—I had borrowed money of my sister to put into the firm—I did not take the premises which I have now got, by representing to Mr. Jardine that the business was mine, and mine solely—I see him here—I negotiated for the house in the name of Taylor Brothers and Co.—I did not to the best of my knowledge represent that I was the only person in the firm—I did not write "There is no person in business with Mr. E. Taylor," nor was it written with my knowledge or authority or sanction, but I knew afterwards that it was written.

Re-examined. These cheques are not crossed, but they are to order (for 256l. 11s. 8d. and 50l.)—I received the proceeds, but never saw the cheques till three days ago—I never gave Jervis authority to put Taylor Brothers on them or on any other documents; they are dated 2nd and 15th April, 1880—at was his duty to send them to me for endorsement—I thought the money was paid on certificate—the reason for the refusal of the summons at the Mansion House was that Guildhall was the proper place; it was a question of jurisdiction—my office is in Falcon Square, on the Guildhall side—on the 17th, when the assault took place, I had my own statement of claim in my hand; I understand that my action is now ripe for going on—Jervis had taken no steps in his action to my knowledge, except issuing that bit of paper—these are two orders of the Master of the Rolls (those produced)—Jervis had rendered me no account on 26th October, 1880, of the two cheques for 14l. 14s. and 26l. 5s.; I first heard of this cheque being received by him the day after he was charged with forging the endorsement to the cheque for 14l. 14s.—the account produced

is not true; Jervis never brought 1s. into the firm—I had received a complaint from one of my customers in respect to Jervis before I wrote the letter of 13th October—this assignment was known to the greater mass of my creditors—the letters which have been produced were in a private letter-book of mine which Jervis stole; I kept it locked up in a travelling case which belongs to me—I bank at the Central Bank of London, Newgate Street—the cheque for 14l. 14s. is crossed "& Co."; it is dated October 17th, and it was the 26th before I heard that it had been paid—I have never received the money, or the 26l. 15s. in respect of Alexander Taylor's cheque—I owe Jervis no money whatever.

GEORGE PAYNE . I am a seaman's outfitter—on 19th October I owed Taylor Brothers 14l. 14s., and sent them the cheque by post—it was duly presented and paid at my bank.

EDWIN BENSON . I was office boy to Taylor Brothers and Co., 45, Queen Victoria Street—on 13th October Mr. Taylor wrote a letter to the prisoner which I copied in the prisoner's copy book—Mr. Taylor then went out, of town, telling me to send him his letters, and giving me certain directions if Jervis called—on Saturday morning, 16th October, Jervis called, and I said, "Mr. Taylor has given me instructions not to admit you"—he laughed and said, "Are there any letters?"—I said "No, they have all gone off"—he said, "Have you any cash?"—I said "Yes"—he said, "Give it to me, then"—I said, "30s. is to go to Mr. Deane and 6s. is for myself"—he made me give it to him, and said that Mr. Deane must wait till Monday—he gave me a half-sovereign, and told me to go and get it changed—that was part of the money, and then he paid me my 6s. wages—he then told me to wrap the ledger up in brown paper, and to fetch a cab—when I got bock he had found out that Mr. Taylor had sent this circular out—he said, "Has Mr. Taylor sent them all out?"—I said, "Yes"—he said that I should have to discharge the cab—he then went to my desk and wrote another circular out, and I believe he took it to the printer's—he took the ledger away, and came in the afternoon and took the letter-book—I said, "Are you coining again?"—he said, "I do not know"—when I came on Monday I found he had been and taken all the books away—I locked my desk when I left on the Saturday, and on the Monday I missed from it 2s. and three or four shillings' worth of postage stamps—I think it was still locked—I put the letters which had come by post into my desk, and was just locking it as he came in and asked me if there were any letters—I did not answer—he said, "Is there any letters; come, tell me?"—I did not tell him—he told me to open the desk, because he saw me take the key away—I opened it, and just as he was putting the letters in his pocket he said, "Oh, I don't want to take Mr. Taylor's letters," because there was one for him among the sir which were addressed to Taylor Brothers—he found there was not one addressed to Mr. Taylor—he went out when he got the letters—when Mr. Taylor came I examined the safe and found it empty.

Cross-examined. I have been with Taylor Brothers since 14th November, 1879—Jervis engaged me and paid me until I had to keep the cash—he kept the key of the safe—that gentleman (pointing) came once on the 18th and asked to see Mr. Taylor—I cannot remember whether that was before Jervis came and saw Mr. Taylor—I was out part of the morning.

By the. JURY. I did not object to give Jervis the money; he stood

over me, and I thought a man was more than a match for a boy—he said, "Give it up to me"—he did not say that he had a right to it—he had always paid me my wages—I had seen him with money before, and when he got cheques he sent them to Burstall.

SOPHIA BRIBER . I have charge of Mr. Taylor's office and others in the same building—on Saturday, 16th October, between three and four p.m., the prisoner came there, and I saw him go out with some parcels, and come back with Nichols, whom I knew—Jervis went up stairs, and I heard a noise of moving things—when he came down the second time he asked me if there were any letters for Taylor Brothers—I said, "I do not know," and before I had time to sort them he took them from my hand and put them in his pocket—the doors closed at two o'clock—on the following Monday the boy came in a fright.

Cross-examined. I have been housekeeper of the whole buildings over five years—the prisoner asked me if I would undertake to clean the office, but Mr. Nichols engaged me for Mr. Taylor, that is the brother of Mr. Nichols, the clerk—I remained till the office boy came, and then I was discharged.

THOMAS BURLEY ROBINSON . I am a cloth finisher of Kirkstall Road, Leeds—this is my signature to these documents of March 9th and 1st July, 1880.

Cross-examined. I took no active part in the business—I was known to a great many of the buying customers—I received this letter from Mr. Taylor containing some names—Mr. Quinney lent 250l. on the purchase of the business, and I paid the balance, 53l., which I got back last December, but not when I expected, and I appeared as a creditor—all that I had in the business was 53l.—I gave the full value to the estate, 303l.—I transferred 300l. on 8th or 9th March by notes to Mr. Taylor—Mr. Good was not there.

Re-examined. This matter has been brought before the creditors and the trustee—I know that it was all open and straightforward.

JOSEPH DOBSON GOOD . I am an accountant of Leeds—on 3rd or 4th April I was appointed trustee at the meeting of creditors—I had been the receiver—I was informed of the existence of this deed of 9th March, and I afterwards examined into the matter—I had never seen Mr. Taylor—my acquaintance with him was examining his books on behalf of the West Riding Banking Company—there is no ground for saying that I have favoured him; Mr. Taylor is no friend of mine.

Cross-examined. I do not know why he should consider that he had scored one by getting me appointed trustee.


Two other indictments were postponed to next Session.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-400
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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400. SOLOMON JACOBS (24) was indicted for wilful and corrupt perjury.

MR. FILLAN. Prosecuted;. MR. FRITH. Defended.

DUNDAS JOHN ROBERTS . I am clerk to the Magistrate at the Thames Police-court—I was present when the prisoner charged the prosecutor with fraudently obtaining 18l. 10s.—I heard him duly sworn, and took down his original deposition—he did not give his evidence in English—I do not know enough of German to say whether his evidence was interpreted exact—I heard him swear that he never had a conversation with Mr. Pasck, and never gave the prosecutor his name as Solomon Jacobs—he gave his name to me as Abraham Levy—he swore, "I never saw Pasck at the office."

Cross-examined. I understand a little German, but not enough of that particular patois to understand that the interpreter put the question right—I know that interpreters do not always put the exact words, but the substance—I take the answers down from the interpreter, who sometimes in a very long answer gives me the general sense—Schmidt interpreted—I have not seen him here—he was sworn to interpret accurately—he is usually employed when present.

ANTON AHRRICK . I am a passenger agent—on 3rd February the prisoner brought me up at the police-court for fraudulently obtaining 18l. 10s.—I saw him sworn—he gave his name Abraham Levy, and swore that he never told me he was Solomon Jacobs—I understand German—he was asked if he had seen Mr. Pasck at my office and said that he never had, and had never told him that he did not want to stay in London, but to send his ticke Southampton—as a fact, the prisoner first met me on the 21st about 7.p.m., and asked me if he could go next week to Cape Town, and what the price was—I said 15l.—I saw him again on the 28th about 10 a.m., and he asked me when the boat would go to Cape Town—I said, "Next Thursday from Southampton"—he said, "At 2 o'clock I shall be here with the money," and then he was gone—I did not ask his name then—he came back about 2.30, and said that he had got the money—I took out my business card and said, "What is your name?"—he said, "Solomon Jacobs"—I said, "What is your age?"—he said, "19 or 20, put down 20"—I put it on the card and he gave me 15l. and 3l. to buy him an outfit—I said, "Will you wait here, or will you go with me to get your ticket?"—he laid, "I will stop a little;" he sat in a chair—I went to Mr. Pasck and gave him the money and asked for a ticket, and he went to the shipping company for it—I returned about 4.15 and found my daughter in the room with the prisoner, and he told me in her presence that Mr. Pasck said that he could not go in that boat, he must go in the next—he went to Southampton for that night, and I telegraphed to him on Wednesday as he had told me he did not know where I was to send the ticket; I said that I would send it to the Union Steam Ship Company, and gave him the address, and went with him and my wife to Waterloo station, and said, "To-morrow you shall have the ticket for the boat if possible, if not, for the next boat"—Mr. Pasck told him that next week he could go by the Caroline—he went that night because he wanted to go to Southampton at once—I sent the ticket in a registered letter to the office, but it came back afterwards—on the Thursday, about 7 p.m., an old man and a young man came and had a long conversation with me about him, and the next thing was I was taken into custody on Saturday night—Mr. Pasck gave evidence, and I was discharged on the Monday.

Cross-examined. I will swear that I did not know his name was Levy—I should know Lewis Polack if I saw him, and I might know Miller, Williams, and Isidore if I saw them—I was cross-examined by a solicitor at the police-court, I said "I was not charged in my country with forgery"—I am not under extradition by the Austrian Government for forgery, nor have I been sentenced to five years' penal servitude in Austria—an Austrian police-officer said so at the police-court, but I was never charged with forgery in my life—I did not appear—I cannot tell whether I ran away from my bail; I never was charged at all—Mr. Albert interpreted at Bow Street a document of the

Austrian Government, but I am not that man—I never went by the name of Garlick or Garrish—I did not meet the prisoner three years ago on board ship and take him to his father's house, but he was going to Leman Street Station and I was going there—I get a commission for sending people out of the country—I live about 200 yards from the prisoner's father—I do not know perfectly well that his name is Levy—I had to keep my children—I did not serve the prisoner's father or mother with papers—I may have spoken to his father—I do not interfere with other people—I have not been to his house over and over again—I did not suggest to him to take the name of Solomon Jacobs—a man named Barnett called on me one Saturday night and an old man who said that he was the prisoner's father—they asked me if I had sent a young man away to the Cape—I said, "Yes, he is still in Southampton; I have sent him to-day the ticket"—the old man began to cry—I showed him the register paper, and he said that he was his son-in-law—he did not say that I ought to be ashamed of myself for assisting a married man to get out of the country—they did not say that I had put him up to it—I went with the prisoner to Waterloo Junction because he begged me to do so—my wife got things for him—we have done so many times for other men.

Re-examined. The Austrian detective said that I was convicted of forgery, but I say that I am not the man—he said "Garrish," and I am Ahrrich—he said that he had run away from his wife and children, and young Barnett gave him in charge, and he was in prison in Southampton, and I had to telegraph to Southampton for the ticket in the night time—when the prisoner was in the cell he asked me to do my best to enable him to go that week.

THEODORE PASCK . I am an emigration agent, of 2, Tower Hill—on Tuesday, the 28th, Mr. Ahrrich called on me and gave me 15l. to procure a passage for Solomon Jacobs—I sent my clerk to the office; he returned and said that the ship was full, but if he would call next day they might find a vacant berth for him—I went to Mr. Ahrrich's about 4 o'clock, and saw his daughter and mother—I said, "Where is Solomon Jacobs?"—the prisoner got up and said, "I am"—I said, "Mr. Ahrrich has given me 12l. to procure your passage, but if you wait till to-morrow the Company may find a berth for you"—he spoke partly in English and partly in German, and said, "Try your best to get me the berth in the ship going on Thursday"—I asked if he would like to go from London—he said, "No, I only want to go from Southampton"—Ahrrich had handed me a green card with the name of Solomon Jacobs on it; I tore it up when I got the ticket.

Cross-examined. I saw Jacobs at the prosecutor's emigration office, which is also a restaurant—no one was present but the prosecutor's mother and daughter—I am licensed by the Board of Trade—the ticket was produced for the first time in Court after the criminal proceedings were taken.

ANNIE AHRRISH . On 20th December the prisoner came in with my father, who asked him his name—he said "Solomon Jacobs"—he did not say that his name was Abraham Levy—some time afterwards Mr. Pasck came in and said, "Where is your mother and your father?"—I said, "They have gone out?"—he said, "Where is Jacobs?"—he said, "Here I am," and they spoke together eight or ten minutes.

Cross-examined. I remember living at 64, Umberstone, Street and the

prisoner living in the same street, but I did not know his father's name—I did not say at the police-court, "I know that the defendant's father's name was Levy"—it did not occur strange to me that his name was Jacobs—I have not been in his company at his father's house, I kept away from him—it would be quite untrue to say that I have been seen in his house on several occasions—the solicitor cross-examined me; he was very severe.

REBECCA AHRRISH . (Interpreted). I am the prosecutor's wife—I saw him come in with the prisoner on 28th December—he asked him his name—he said "Solomon Jacobs"—I did not hear him say that his name was Solomon Levy—my husband took a card and put his name on it and his age, 19 or 20—he asked whether my husband could procure him a ticket for the Cape, and said that he had rather go from Southampton than London, and told him to procure a ticket for him to proceed by that ship, and if he could not start then he was to send the ticket to Southampton.

Cross-examined. I bought clothes to tend him away—I have done that for many of them before—I did not know perfectly well that his name was Levy when we lived opposite him in Umberstone Street—I did not know anything about it—we lived two years in Umberstone Street and two years in Christian Street—he had been at our house a week before in the night time.

JOSEPH MARRIOTT . (Detective Officer). The prosecutor gave Ahrrich in charge for fraudulently obtaining 18l.—Ahrrich Said "What is the matter?" and the prosecutor said "Give me back my money"—they talked broken English, and I did not understand it—he said that the ticket was in the London office, and the prisoner said that he could not come up before, he was in Southampton.

Witnesses for the Defence.

LEWIS POLLACK . (Interpreted). I am a traveller, and live at 72, St. George's Road, Hoxton—I know the prosecutor and prisoner, as they were neighbours, and called one another Abraham Levy and Alter Ahrrich—I went with Levy to Ahrrich's house the last day of Christmas, Wednesday, when Alter was sending a countryman away to America—I have seen them together during the whole summer; they were neighbours, and saw each other often—I was lodging at Ahrrich's house, and often saw Levy in his company—they went to the Synagogue together, and always called one another Levy and Ahrrich—I have seen Levy at Ahrrich's house several times; I had a dispute with him relative to the children—Ahrrich lived in Umberstone Street, five or six houses off.

Cross-examined. I always heard him called Ahrrich by the prisoner—I can prove that I was with Ahrrich at the prisoner's house all day on 28th December—he went with me about my countryman going to America—I know the prisoner's wife and children; he did not tell me he wanted to leave them—I had no conversation with him about going to Africa—I heard no conversation between him and the prosecutor about the prisoner going abroad—some years ago Ahrrich was in the habit of taking Vienna newspapers to Levy's house, and I was at a party at Levy's house and stood godfather.

By the. COURT. We left together on the 28th; at that time he was in his father's house, and I was a lodger there—I did not know that the prisoner had been to Southampton till X went to Arbour Square, nor

did I know of his being absent from home—I was not living in the same house on 28th October—I believe it was on the Wednesday after Christmas he went.

MILLY WELDMAN . My husband is a boot-finisher of 37, Umberstone Street—I came over from Germany in the same ship with the prisoner last May three years, and Ahrrich came on board and asked for a young Hungarian named Abraham Levy, that was the prisoner; he conducted us to Batty's Gardens, where Moses Levy was living.

Cross-examined. There were about six passengers, Levy, my husband and I, and the child—he said that he knew the young man well, and had spoken to his father, who said "My son is coming over, and you had better go and bring him here"—he did not seem to have known him before—we all went together, and when we got to Batty's Gardens he would not go any farther till he was paid, and my husband gave him 1s., and he said "If I did not know Mr. Moses Levy I should not be satisfied with that 1s."—I knew Abraham Levy before—I asked the father if it was true that he sent Ahrrich to get his son—he said "Yes." Re-examined. I have seen Ahrrich and the prisoner together many times since he came; my husband took the prisoner to Ahrrich because he was a countryman.

MOSES LRVY (Interpreted). I am the prisoner's father, and live at 37, Umberstone Street—I have known Ahrrich more than four years—when my son came over to England next May three years I sent Ahrrich down to the ship for him, and told him to ask for my son Abraham Levy—he brought him to my house, and I have seen Ahrrich there several times since when my son has been present—we were playing at dominoes together sometimes, all three of us—he called my son Abraham, and he brought papers to my house several times—my son got married and lived with his father-in-law—I remember sending Solomon Barnett to Southampton to look for my son, and the next day when my son returned I went to Ahrrich's house, and said to him "How is it you sent my son away in that way without my knowledge, you know me perfectly well, and if you had come to me and told me my son was going away I would have preferred to give you a sovereign out of my pocket than to get my son run into misfortune and ruin"—he said "Don't make a noise about it; calm yourself, don't say much before the people, I will tell you the whole truth. Yes, I have sent your son away, and I have sent him away in another name, and when the ticket comes back he must go with me to the office, and then he must say that he is Solomon Jacobs, and does not intend to start any longer, and I will get the money back"—I made several applications afterwards for the return of the money, and the last appointment was for Saturday at 12 o'clock, and I could not get it—he said "Do what you like; unless he says he is Solomon Jacobs the money will not be returned"—I was alone then—I did not go with Mr. Barnett, but I went with my son on Friday—I saw the ticket at the Thames Police-court, where the prisoner had been charged with fraud.

Cross-examined. I gave evidence for that gentleman (pointing) at the Thames Police-court—he had a fight with somebody—I did not then speak English, I am not able—whatever I said, I said a little, and I said it in English; I know a little but not well—after my son had gone, we found that he had taken some jewellery of ours, and Barnett went to

Southampton, but my orders were not to give my son in charge for robbery—I did not want him for that purpose—his father-in-law laid some sort of complaint, whether of robbery or not I do not know, for the purpose of stopping him—three or four of us asked Ahrrich if he had sent away a young man, and he said that he knew nothing about it; he afterwards told me that he had sent my son away in another name—I said "What for?" and he said "That is my business"—I said "I want the money back," and he promised by Saturday to return it—the father-in-law is not here; I know he sent a telegram saying "Please don't give Solomon Jacobs ticket for the Cape, &c."—the 18l. 10s. was partly my son's money and partly his father-in-law's—I did not know of his going—I went to the Austrian Consul to ask about the prosecutor's character.

SOLOMON BARNETT . I live at 10, Gower Place, and make cap-linings—I went alone to Southampton, at the prisoner's father's request, to see if he was there, and when I got there I met him in the street—I went with him on the Thursday to the branch office—he asked if there was a ticket lying there for him—he did not mention any name, but he told me he had been there on several former occasions—he cannot speak English—I came back to London alone, and then went with the prisoner's father-in-law to Ahrrich's house, and asked him whether he had sent away a young man that week to Southampton—I did not mention any name—he said he did not know of anybody who he had sent that week—I said "I can prove that you have sent a young man away"—he said "Well, prove it;" we had a long conversation, and I said "I know perfectly well you have been purchasing for this young man a box, with socks and so on," and told him it might be rather disagreeable to him, and it was better he should tell the truth, although he had no interest in the matter at all—lie then said "Yes, I have sent a young man away this week, what do you want?" I said "I have nothing to do with it, but here is his father-in-law, speak to him," and he spoke to him and expressed some pity for him, and said "Yes, I have taken 15 guineas from your son-in-law, and I have made 1l. by it, and am willing to return you that sovereign which I made: I have not got the ticket now, but when I get the ticket let the wife of Abraham Levy come and say '. My husband is not going now,'but she must say she is the wife of Solomon Jacobs; if you say his name is Abraham Levy you will lose the money."

Cross-examined. This was on a Friday evening about 8 o'clock—Hoses Levy heard all the conversation—I left my work to go to South-ampton—my brother works with me—my instructions were if I saw the prisoner in Southampton to take him to the Court and have him detained on a charge which his wife made of taking something away from her, and deserting her and her children.

Cross-examined. I was not paid for going to Southampton; I went out of friendship, but he gave me 17s. to pay my fare.

GUILTY .— Six Months' Imprisonment'

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-401
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown

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401. ALFRED GREEN (34) and JOHN HOOK (22) , Stealing a wooden case and 413 yards of lace and four under-shirts of Messrs. Vise and others, to which


MR. GILL P Prosecuted; MESSRS. BURNIE and GEOGHEGAN Defended.

GEORGE JAMES VENNING . I am in the employ of Vise and others, warehousemen, 76, Cheapside—on 16th February I made up a case of goods for Steward, Ghent, and Co. for shipment to Calcutta—it contained 214 dozen yards of lace and a dozen shirts, value 16l.—it was handed to Mr. Johnson, carman, the same day to be taken to the docks—I afterwards identified it in the possession of the police; it was my packing.

JONAS FILER . I am in the service of Mr. Johnson, a carman, of 2, Milk Street—I first met Hook in the City Road, in the evening of 11th February—a conversation took place and I saw him again, and on the 15th I saw Green at the corner of Church Street, Minories, standing outside a public-house—he did not speak to me—I saw a van there and a grey pony—Hook did not speak to me that day, but I saw him on the Wednesday, and by appointment with him I went to Wilson Street with my van, containing some cases for Goodman's Yard—about 3 o'clock I saw him standing outside a public-house; I saw the same van there, but it then had a bay pony—I stopped my van and went inside, and had half a pint of ale—when I came out and put the nose-bag on my horse, Green came up and said, "Hook is not here, but I will go and fetch him; he will be here directly"—he went away and I went inside—I came out in about seven minutes, hearing the tail of my cart dropped—I found the tail-piece down and the van backed up to the tail of my cart, and Green in the van, with the case in it—Hook then came up to the horse's head and said, "It is all right," and gave me 6d. to treat myself, and promised to meet me at 6.45—they both got into the van and drove away—I had before that communicated to my master.

Cross-examined. To the best of my belief I said at the police-court the same as I am saying now—I had told my master all about the preceding meetings—I know Whinecup, who carries on business in Wood Street, Cheapside; I was in his service three years ago, when I think he was in Friday Street—I was not dismissed by him; I left his service—he preferred a charge against me, which was investigated by a Magistrate, and I was sentenced tofour months' hard labour—that was in 1875 or 1876—I swear it was more than three years ago—he did not dismiss me; I found myself wrong in my accounts and did not go to the warehouse for; two or three days, and I gave myself up at Guildhall and pleaded guilty.

Re-examined. I have been getting an honest living since, and Mr. Johnson knew of my conviction before he employed me.

HENRY JOHNSON . I am a carman, of 2, Milk Street, City—Filer was in my employ and in my father's employ previously—he made a statement to me in February which I communicated to the police, and on February 15th I went to the Minories and saw Green, and opposite where he stood leaning against a lamp-post was a van with a grey horse—I walked about till I saw that Green and the detective had gone away, and then I left—dark was then in my employ.

ROBERT SAGER . (City Policeman). On 15th February I was with Outram in the Minories, and saw Green and a van and a grey pony—on the 16th I followed Filer's van from the City to Wilson Street, and before we got there saw Green outside the Flying Horse, and a little way outside Wilson Street a bay pony and a van, which Green backed against Filer's van—I saw him speak to Filer, and go down Wilson Street towards Eldon Street, where he met Hook—they both came back, went to the tail

of Filer's van, and Hook let the tail down, while Green stood close by—they took a case from Filer's van and put it into the van with the grey pony—Filer then came out of the public-house and went to his horse's nose-bag, where Hook spoke to him; they both then jumped into the van with the grey pony, the case being in it, and drove away—we followed them to Commercial Street, and I took Hook, who was driving—I searched him and found on him this key (produced), which fitted the padlock of a stable in Lark Road, Cambridge Heath, which I saw opened, and saw in it some brown paper and canvas wrappers and straw, such things as would be used for packing.

STEPHEN MARONEY; (Policeman). I was with Sager—I have heard his account; it is correct—I took Green; he gave his address Fibre Mills, Holly Bush Gardens, Bethnal Green; his father lives there—I told him I was a police officer, and asked him to get down—he made no attempt to do so, and I pulled him down and told him I should apprehend him for being concerned with Hook in stealing a case from a van in Wilson Street half an hour previously—he said, "You have made a mistake; I don't know anything about it"—he pointed to Hook at the station and said that he was only shifting the parcel for him—I found a key on him which opens the padlock of the stable.

JAMES MORLEY . (Policeman G. 134). I was with Sager and Maroney—I took charge of the van when the prisoners were taken; I believe Hook was driving it—Mr. Peters claimed it.

CHARLES PETERS . I live at 375, Hackney Road—on 15th February, about 2 o'clock in the day, I let Green a van and a grey cob, and on the 16th the same van with a chestnut, which I found in the possession of the police.

WILLIAM WILLIAMS . I live at 80, Bishop's Road—my mother owns a stable in Lark Road, which was taken about nine days before the prisoners were taken; the two prisoners were present and another man—there was a lock on then—I don't know who put the padlock on—I was not present at the letting, but I was when they entered, and saw Green come with Hook.

ROBERT OUTRAM . (Detective Sergeant). On 15th February I watched Filer's van from Milk Street to Church Street, Minories, and saw Green standing opposite where the van was standing—Green pulled out a handkerchief and waived it, and then I saw Mr. Johnson come round the corner—Hook looked into the public-house outside which Filer's van was standing, Filer having left it and walked up the Minories—I followed the other van on the 18th.

GREEN received a good character.GUILTY . (See next ease.) HOOK—GUILTY. He then PLEADED GUILTY. to a conviction of larceny in January, 1878.; (See page. 630.)

THIRD COURT.—Tuesday, April 5th, 1881.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-402
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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402. EDWIN FRANCIS COWDRY (38) , Stealing 8l. 3s., 2l. and 2l. 13s. 6d. the moneys of James Garvie and another, his masters.

MR. TORR. Prosecuted; MR. GEOGHEGAN. Defended, JAMES GARVIE. I am on engineer at 5, New Street, Bishopsgate Street—I have one partner—the prisoner was employed as bookkeeper and cashier at 2l. a week; he came in April, 1880—on 24th July

I handed 8l. 3s. to him received from Mr. Smith, a customer—this is my signature to the receipt produced—the prisoner has entered it in the ledger—his duty was to pay all moneys into the bank and enter it in the cash-book and afterwards in the ledger—there was also a petty cash-book—there is no entry of 8l. 3s. in the cash-book—slips were used for paying money into the bank; a counterfoil book was kept—I have not received the slips back from the bank—the entry is not in the bank-book—on 27th October I received from Mr. Tozeland 2l.—I handed the two sovereigns to the prisoner for the purpose of entering in the cash-book and ledger and payment into the bank—I have examined the books and not found the entry—it is mostly the prisoner's handwriting on the counterfoils; I produce the collecting book—Mr. Tozeland's name is entered in the prisoner's writing; all the entries are made by him in that book—it was kept merely for checking the amounts outstanding and for the prisoner's guidance or mine—the name of Tozeland is marked "Paid 4l. 13s. 6d.," with a note of interrogation before the word "Paid"—I searched for the entry 2l. 13s. 6d., which was paid to the prisoner on the 27th November by the boy Flint, I found no entry of that amount in any of the books the prisoner left me on the 19th or 21st February—he was under notice to leave, which expiredlon the 28th—I was not there on the Saturday and he sent me a telegram—he did not return—his wages were overdrawn at the time; a correspondence took place between us afterwards—I received this from the prisoner,"13, Trollope Street, South Lambeth. March 1st, 1881. Messrs. Garvie and Co. Gentlemen,—Herein please find my accounts as promised. Trusting this will be satisfactory, Yours obediently, E. F. Cowdry. A few receipts will be forwarded to-morrow"—I received the account pinned on to the letter—I do not find either of these three sums entered—the account begins January 1st, 1881; that is the only account I received from the prisoner.

Cross-examined. I communicated with him on 25th February this year asking for explanation of his cash account in January; I asked him to call on me as well—the 8l. 3s. was paid to me in the first place—I know it because I receipted the account—I knew where the prisoner was—there is no pretence for saying he absconded—I said at the police-court he absented himself; I did not know he was in the employment of other engineers—he received a good character when he came—I have another place of business at Southgate; that was only opened last Christmas—I have no place of business in Scotland—Mr. Cowdry kept the cash-book produced; there are two keys to it—I keep one; the other is for the cashier—I never knew it locked since he had it—he had to keep an invoice-book, ledger, bank-book, cash-book, petty cash-book, and collecting-book, but I sometimes made out the invoices myself—he had to collect the accounts—he had very little to do with soliciting orders—he lived in Battersea, and I asked him occasionally to call on customers in that district—I have an assistant named Fowler, and the boy Flint; also Mrs. Middleton, the housekeeper—Cowdry paid them their wages; he has also paid the man at Southgate two or three times—there were two fitters; one was Lock and the other Long—Cowdry paid them both; that was before Christmas—he paid petty disbursements out of cash he received; that was not with my approval—he should have drawn a cheque—I call petty cash, amounts under a sovereign, but we never make a limit of a shilling—I always complained of his paying

money out of petty cash—I heard of it six or eight times from November onwards; I always objected to it—I charged the man named Cheese—borough with not giving up his petty cash-book—I threatened to prosecute him for stealing it unless he could give a proper account of it—88l. 10s. was paid into my bank about July 24th, on 31st 6l., after that 5l. 8s. 11d.—he demanded one shilling an hour if he made up his accounts after he left—there was a balance against him; it has been allowed since—I saw some pencil marks in my writing in the ledger; I kept the books before Cowdry came—I remember charging the prisoner before the Magistrate with embezzling 2l. 2s. 9d.—I afterwards found I was mistaken—the collecting-book was put into my hand before the Magistrate—I saw 4l. 13s. 6d. marked off as paid, and I noticed the interrogation mark; I had not noticed it before then—I do not know what the interrogation refers to—the first date of the rough scroll scrap-book was August, 1879; from then till December, 1880, we had not a rough cash-book in our business.

Re-examined. It was the prisoner's duty to keep the books, and whatever fault there is in them attaches to him—I made a rough examination of the books, and then put them into the hands of an accountant.

By. MR. GEOGHEGAN. I could not find Bock's time-sheets, and I asked him for copies of them; I did not say Cowdry had kept them back—Lock said he had given them to Cowdry; they were found in my desk.

By. MR. TORR. Mr. Ball, the accountant, drew my attention to the 2l. 2s. 9d. which had been included in a larger amount, 8l. 1s. 6d., and I withdrew the charge as to that item—I found that Cheeseborough had not got the book, therefore I did not prosecute him—there is no mistake as to the three items I have given—Mr. Garvie kept the books in 1879.

WILLIAM FLINT . I am employed by Mr. Garvie as office-boy; Cowdry was cashier—on 27th November I received 2l. 13s. 6d. from Mr. Tozeland, 2l. in gold and 13s. 6d. in silver—I put it in the corner of Cowdry's drawer—two hours afterwards Mrs. Middleton heard me tell Cowdry that Mr. Tozeland had paid his account, and that I put it into the corner of his drawer—Cowdry took it out and counted it—I believe he put it back again.

Cross-examined. Mrs. Middleton sometimes received money—I received money too—Mrs. Middleton shows the customers how to work the washing machines—I do not know how many workmen there are; Mr. Garvie or Cowdry would pay them—Cowdry paid me my wages, 5s. a week—the books were in the office—I never saw the cash-book locked—I saw the small cash-book—Cheeseborough used it.

ANNIE MIDDLETON . I am housekeeper at Mr. Game's, in New Street—I remember Flint telling Cowdry on 27th November about the money which I saw the gentleman pay—I went into the office to see if Mr. Garvie was in, and Mr. Tozeland was waiting—the boy made out a receipt while I was engaged showing how to work a machine—Mr. Tozeland said his girl did not understand it—he took the receipt away, and Flint put the money in Cowdry's drawer—when Cowdry came in, Flint said, "Mr. Tozeland has called to pay an account, and the money is in your drawer," or "I have put the money in your drawer"—Cowdry then sat down, and took the money out of the drawer—I cannot tell what he did with it.

Cross-examined. I have received money from customers—I do not know what the prisoner did in the afternoon—he was in and out a good deal—I did not know who sent him out.

J. BALL. I am an accountant of 1, Gresham Buildings, Basinghall Street—I examined the books about a fortnight ago—they are very badly kept—I made a communication to Mr. Garvie about an item of 2l. 2s. 9d., which I had traced—it was entered on the receipt side of the cash-book in a larger sum, and appears in a different name—my examination extended from April, 1880, till the present time—I find no entries of the sums 8l. 3s., 2l., and 2l. 13s. 6d. except that the 8l. 3s. is entered in the ledger—the queried entry is the prisoner's handwriting.

Cross-examined. I cannot swear to the note of interrogation—I take the entry altogether.

JAMES GARVIE (Re-examined). The prisoner came into my employment in April, 1880, as an extra hand at first, to assist me in a lawsuit against Messrs Butterfield; he was my cashier from that time—he conducted himself so well that I made him my regular cashier—Fowler kept the books three weeks.

The prisoner received a good character.


There were two other, indictments against him which were adjourned till next Session.

NEW COURT.—Wednesday, April 6th, 1881.

Before Mr. Recorder.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-403
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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403. JAMES HATELEY (37), GEORGE STEVENS (24), and ALFRED GREEN (34) , Stealing 53 rolls of cloth and four wooden cases, the goods of Isaac Mead and others.

MESSRS. MONTAGU WILLIAMS. and GILL. Prosecuted;. MESSRS. POTTER, Q.C., and FRITH. appeared for Hateley;. MR. MORICE. for Stevens; and


ARTHUR PYE . I am a warehouseman to Hughes and Mead, cloth merchants, of St. Paul's Churchyard—I saw 53 rolls of cloth in the possession of the police—it belongs to them—value 398l.—this is one of them (produced).—they were packed in four cases marked H. M. & S., and delivered to one of Davis's vans on 5th January, and taken to the Custom House Quay—they left our premises about 12—I heard of their loss about 12 o'clock the same day.

EDWARD STOCK . I am a carman in the service of Richard Davis and Son, of Knightrider Street—about 12.15 p.m. on 5th January I received four cases from Hughes and Mead—I took them to Leadenhall Street, got a shipping order, and went on to St. Dunstan's Hill—a lad came up and spoke to me—from what he said I got down from the van and went back to Eastcheap—not seeing anybody there I went back to where I left my van, and it had disappeared—I saw it next morning in the possession of the police—this is one of the cases—the boy was a stranger to me.

WILLIAM KEELEY . (Policeman G. 404). On 5th January about 7 p.m. I was in the Hackney Road—I found one of Davis's vans with no one looking after it—there was one horse—it was standing by a public-house—I took it to the station—I afterwards went to Mr. Davis.

PHILIP PORTER . (Policeman H. 222). About 2 a.m. on 6th January I was on duty in Satchwell Street, Bethnal Green Road—I had tried the doors and found them safe—I heard some one running and some one call out, "Go on, Jack"—they turned into the Bethnal Green Road, and I lost sight of them—I went back into Satchwell Street, about 20, yards from the

warehouse door, and picked up a man's hat—I went on—I saw the ware-house door open—while I was examining the doer the prisoner Stevens came in an opposite direction from Turin Street—he ran away—I saw he had no hat on, and gave chase—I caught him in Church Road, Bethnal Green, about 300 yards off—I asked him what he was running for; he laid, "Nothing"—I asked him what he wanted in Satchwell Street fee said he had come there to pick up his hat—I showed him the hat which I had in my hand, and asked him if it was his; he said "Yes, that is mine"—I said he would have to go back with me—I met Police Constable 87 at the corner of Orange Street—he came back with me and went inside, the gateway—he came out and said, "There are a lot of rolls of cloth; I will hold the prisoner, you go in and look for yourself"—I went in and saw a number of rolls of cloth lying there—I came out and took the prisoner to the station—I went back to examine the warehouse—I found the first floor had been broken into by breaking a square of glass in the window and drawing a bolt back and raising the window up, which would give access to a man—later in the day Stevens was charged on suspicion with breaking into a warehouse, a quantity of cloth being therein, the owner net being found.

Cross-examined by MR. MORICE. It was about 2 a.m., and rather dark, and no people about—he did not say, "I have been knocked down by two men, and have had my hat knocked off"—he did not say when I said I should take him, "What for?"—I did not say, "I do not know yet"—he made no objection to go with me—I saw no woman about—he gave his address to the inspector—on the way to the station he said, "I do not know what to do, but I will chance it"—I could see the cloth about, that is the reason I took him—it was about 5 minutes from the time I saw the men running till I saw Stevens.

Cross-examined by MR. POTTER. Satchwell Street is about 100 yards in length—there are several warehouses in the block, but the premises are separate and detached from each other—there is no staircase between the ground and the first floor—the first floor is approached by a staircase at the back of the premises, outside—the cloth was lying in the gateway—one roll' was on the steps leading up to the first floor, another on the landing outside the door—that would be No. 14, nearest Turin Street—the broken window was at the back on the first floor at the top of the steps—No. 15 is occupied by a cabinetmaker, and No. 16 to store wood—the workshop of No. 15 is upstairs.

FREDERICK GEORGE ABERLINE . (Police Inspector H). On 6th January, about 9 a.m. I received information about this cloth being found—Stevens was then at the station, but not charged—I directed Sergeant Wright to go to Satchwell Street, and I went about 5 p.m.—I saw Hate'ey at the warehouse standing with some other person, a horse and cart was standing there—I said, "This horse and cart is evidently stolen, there is a man at the station reporting the loss"—it contained groceries, and chests of tea—he said, "It is very strange"—I asked him who occupied the premises, referring to the first and second floors, where the property was found—he said, "My foreman, named Johnson, let it to a man named Walters"—I said, "Do you know Walters?" he said, "No, I never taw him to my knowledge in my life"—I said, "Where is Johnson?" he said, "He is not here to-day"—I said, "Where does he live?" he said, "I do not know"—I said, "Have you anybody else working for you here?" he

said, "I have only got one old man, who does odd jobs"—I said, "Where is he?" he said, "He is not here to-day"—I asked him where he lived——he said somewhere at Hackney, but he could not tell me where—I asked him his name, he said it was Dangerfield—we went into 16A, where the rolls of cloth were—there was an ancient coffin of slate or marble, and some things which Hateley said belonged to him—I sent the horse and cart to the station—it was found to be the property of Mr. Ellis, a grocer—it had been stolen that afternoon—I went to the warehouse next day about noon—in the meantime I had found the owners for the cloth, and I went in company with Harding, a City officer, and Mr. Pye, to identify it—I had left officers in charge of the premises—I found Johnson on the first floor—I asked him his name, he said "Martin;" I asked if he was the foreman, he said "Yes"—I afterwards saw Hateley, and said, "I have seen Johnson, and he says his name is Martin"—Hateley said, "I only know him by the name of Johnson"—I said, "Well, Johnson says he let the premises to a man named John Walters, and that he received 4l. for a month's rent in advance, and that he gave to you"—he said, "If he received it I never had it," or words to that effect—I said, "He also says that there was an agreement between you and him, he believes it was written on a piece of note paper"—he said, "I never saw it, I do not know anything about it"—he went to the desk and looked and could not see it—I had other conversation with Dangerfield and Martin before I left—Hateley, Martin, and Dangerfield were there together—I said "I shall have to make further inquiries, and of course I cannot say what the result of those inquires will be"—I afterwards made a thorough examination of the three floors of the warehouse—Wright found this plan amongst the papers; it is a correct description of the block of buildings—Satchwell Street runs parallel with Bethnal Green Road, and is approached by Orange Street and Turin Street; the Orange Street end is nearest the gate—the small door next to the gates at 16A, is open during the day, and there is a passage which leads to the back of the premises, from which there is access to the whole of the premises—I found 27 rolls of cloth on the first floor and the heads of the cases, a chest of tea broken open and a small quantity taken out, a box of colours, two. looking-glasses, some ladies' bags, four tubs of butter, some cinnamon—the property produced is part of it—it has all been identified—I Saw no name over the premises—I told Hateley afterwards I could find no such person as Walters—no charge was then made against Hateley—he was taken into custody on 24th February—Stevens had been remanded from week to week, and there had been no person to charge him—the bulk of the property was found on the first floor of 14A—I kept officers there in plain clothes for four days, then I had all the premises cleared and took all the property to the station, and gave the key to Hateley.

Cross-examined by MR. POTTER. Hateley occupies the ground floor at the extreme end—I went over the whole of the premises with Hateley; there was a great deal of miscellaneous property—I saw some which Hateley said had been used in the Arctic expedition—there were also oils and cans of various descriptions—I understood Hateley dealt in Government stores—I should term him a general dealer—none of the articles found on the premises occupied by Hateley has been claimed as the proceeds of any robbery—I saw Hateley at the station previous to going to the premises on 6th January, about 1 o'clock—I did not notice where Hateley

came from when I saw him at the premises—I did not want him to prosecute; I had no conversation about it—I dare say there were books, but I took no notice—he told me he had come from Portsmouth the previous afternoon, and that he found the old man Dangerfield drunk, and took the key from him—I made notes of the conversation immediately afterwards on slips.

Cross-examined by MR. MORICE. Stevens was not charged with loitering.

Re-examined. Two addresses were given at the police-court; one was 38, Bessborough Gardens, the other somewhere at Bow.

GEORGE WRIGHT . (Police Sergeant H). On 6th January I got information about Stevens being found on these premises—I went there in consequence of that about 11 a.m., and saw Hateley—I had then no knowledge of the van robbery—I said, "Mr. Hateley, I suppose you are aware that your warehouse has been broken into?"—he said, "Yes; it is a curious affair"—I said, "I want you to come to the station and charge a man there in custody"—he said, "It is not my property"—I said, "Not your property! Whose is it, then?"—he said, "I do not know"—I said, "You do not think I believe that, do you?"—he said, "Well, my foreman Johnson let it to a man named Walters a few weeks ago; I do not know his address" v—I said, "Had you an agreement, or have you received any money for rent?"—he said, "No"—I said, "Can you find the man the place was let to?"—he said, "Yes; I think I can"—he came with me to the station, but I believe he had been there previously—he did not charge Stevens—Aberlyne came into the station while-Hateley was there—I saw him again on 7th, after Aberlyne had seen him—I took charge of him while Aberlyne was in conversation with Johnson and Dangerfield at the premises—he said, "It is a funny affair. I am sure three months would kill me as my throat is"—I saw him again on the 10th—I asked him about Walters—he said he had given us all the information he could—I told him he had given us none yet—I said, "I am told that Green has got his whiskers cut close. I cannot make out who Green is"—I had ascertained that Green had been been a good deal on the premises—Green was taken on the 17th on another charge—when Green was in the dock I said, "Mr. Hateley, you see we have got Green"—he said, "Is that Green? I do not know him"—he gave me no address.

Cross-examined by MR. POTTER. I saw Hateley seven on night times altogether—I made a note on the first occasion—I heard him say he had never seen Walters—I have Hateley's address in my pocket-book; he told me that afterwards—it is 1, Archibald Road, Camberwell Road, Bow—I was present at the conversation about the agreement—I saw Hateley look over the papers in the desk on 7th January—I saw one or two books there.

Cross-examined by MR. MORICE. Stevens gave me his address—I went and searched his place—he occupied a small back room—I found no stolen property—it was 11, Collingwood Street, Bethnal Green.

DAVID OLDER . (Police Inspector H). I was at the station on 6th January, when Hateley came in about 1 o'clock—I told him that Stevens was detained as there was something wrong at his warehouse, 14A, Satchwell Street—he said it was let to a man named Walters, but he did not know his address; his manager Johnson let it—I asked him for Johnson's address that I might find out—he said he did not know it—he had been

with him about ten weeks—I asked him where he lived; he said at the Grand Palace Hotel, Portsmouth, and sometimes at 16A, Satchwell Street, and that he owned 14A, 15A, and 16A, Satchwell Street—I then let him see Stevens—he said, "I do not know him"—he said he had come from Ports-mouth yesterday—he showed me a lot of deeds or leases, which he took from a bundle out of his pocket—I told him Stevens would be sent before the Magistrate that afternoon, and he had better attend, as the Magistrate might want to ask him a question—he gave me no other address.

Cross-examined by MR. POTTER. I have not inquired about Johnson being his foreman—I heard Wright had told Hateley to come to the station—Johnson has net been in communication with me.

JOHN POWER . I live at 22, Satchwell Street, Bethnal Green Road—I took part of the premises No. 15A. from Mr. Hateley about fourteen months ago—I had all the floors—I am a cabinetmaker—I did not know of 14A being let to anybody—I have seen Green going in and out of 14A, sometimes two or three times a day—I saw him about two days before 6th January—I saw him there alto five or six weeks before 6th of January—I never saw any one there named Walters; I have seen Green there on a Sunday—I have not seen goods go in or out—I was a weekly tenant at first—after 24th June I paid quarterly—I used to pay Mr. Hateley.

Cross-examined by Mr. GEOGHEGAN. I saw Green there on a Sunday, in the morning part; also at all hours on the week day.

Cross-examined by MR. POTTER. I live at No, 2 on the same side of the way—I sometimes employ as many as fourteen men, at others eight or ten—they come to work about 9 or 9.30—I generally get there about 10 or 11—Ae shop closes at 8 or 9 p.m.; I leave at 5 or 6, according to the work there is—16A. is used for storing wood and planks—there was a letterbox at 14A. cut in the street door; I do not remember when it was cut—there was also a letter-box in the gateway—a small bill was stuck on the door, but I am no scholar, and could not read it.

Re-examined. I do not know Mr. Thompson—I saw Green go up to the first-floor—I said "Good morning" or "Good evening"—sometimes others were with him—sometimes a lot would go up, and sometimes they could not be seen from my workshop when I am inside—I saw them when I have been coming down.

Examined by. MR. POTTER. There are two doors, one at the front and one at the back—there is a door to 16A, but no lock to it—it was always open.

EDWARD LEIGH . I am Chief Clerk at Worship Street Police-court—I was acting in that capacity when Stevens was charged and Hateley was examined as a witness—I took down what he said—the deposition was not signed, nor was he bound over—this is it:—(In this deposition Hateley staled that he was the owner of. 16A.Satchwell Street, which was unlet, and left open for any one to look at, and that. 14a, where the property was found, was let in his absence to John Walters, that he did not know Walters or Green, that he never let to Thompson, and did not know his name was over the letter-box, and that he only had letters came addressed to Thompson token he was away ill in November).

Cross-examined. I also took Wallers's evidence—he made an addition—there is no mistake.

CHARLES GOVETT , I am in the service of Mr. Powers, cabinetmaker,

of 14A, Satch well Street—I have seen Green in and out there frequently, and have seen him go upstairs—the police came on 6th January, and I had seen Green there for fire or six weeks previously two or three times a week, and sometimes every day—I saw him go there three or four days before the place was searched.

WILLIAM ROLFE . (Police Sergeant K). I have known Hateley and Green three or four years, and have seen them together a number of times—Green's father lives in Hollybush Gardens, and Hateley had a warehouse there.

Cross-examined by MR. POTTER. He gave it up about two years ago—I am on duty in the neighbourhood.

WILLIAM WALLER (Detective A). I have known Hateley and Green three or four years—I saw them together towards the end of last year numbers of times, coming out of Hollybush Gardens and in the Bethnal Green Road.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I saw them together in December—I was examined at the police court on 6th March.

Cross-examined by MR. POTTER. The last time I saw them together was somewhere about Christmas—I had not seen them together since stevens was apprehended—not since 6th January.

GEORGE FOSTER . (Police Sergeant). On 7th January I was present when Inspector Abberline spoke to Hateley—Abberline said "I understand you say this man's name is Johnson, but I find it is Martin; he tells me he let the premises to Walters, and paid you a month's rent, and that you ought to have the agreement"—he said "I do not remember; I will go and see if I can find it"—he went to his desk in the warehouse and could not find it—I afterwards searched the warehouse, and in the desk in which I saw him looking I found this book with the name of Green in it in three places.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. Green's father is a fibre merchant.

WILLIAM THICK . (Police Sergeant). I searched Hateley's lodging, I, Archibald Row, Bow, and found this book with the name of Green in it—he gave me his address there—I also found a large number of papers, and among them an envelope with the name of Green. Hollybush Gardens, on it: also the name of Thomas Stevens, 47, Stafford Road, Old Ford, and two flash notes on the bank of engraving.

Cross-examined by MR. POTTER. I also found this, "Young and Green, 103. b. wax at 7d., 3l. 3s."—a female at 47, Stafford Road, gave Stevens's description, and said that he had gone away 12 months, ago, and that there had been a great many inquiries after him.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. Two Greens are mentioned in the book—the other was of Holly Bush Gardens; that is a totally different man.

ARTHUR DANIEL . I am in the service of Mr. Banderburg, an East India merchant—this box of colours is his property—it was delivered to Fardell's van in December with a case of shawls and pictures—I afterwards heard of the loss.

FREDERICK GRACE . I am in the service of Mr. Fardell, of the Minories, as carman—on 16th December I received this case of colours and another case from Branderburgs—I afterwards went to Hunt's coffee-house, Minories, to have my dinner, leaving the van and four cases outside—I came out in about eight minutes, and the van had disappeared—I saw it next morning without the cases.

EDMUND DANN . (Policeman G. 439). On 16th December I found a van which was afterwards claimed by Mr. Fardell, in Margaret Road, Haggerston—nothing was in it, and no one was looking after it—I took it to the station.

WILLIAM SOFTLAND . I am a tea-mixer in the service of the Licensed Victuallers' Tea Company, 9, Curtain Road, Shoreditch—this chest of tea is their property—it was delivered to the South-Western van on 5th January, and I afterwards heard of the loss of it.

WILLIAM SPREADBURY . I am a carman in the service of the London and South-Western Railway Company—on 5th January I received this chest of tea from the Licensed Victuallers' Tea Company, put it into my van, and drove it to the Allan Office, Primrose Street—I went into the office, and when I came out it had disappeared from the van.

CLEMENT ARRAGONI . I am manager to Samuel Arragoni, of Red Lion Street, Whitechapel—I have seen two looking-glasses here; they are part of five cases of looking-glasses I delivered to Tripp's van on 28th December—Newman was the carman—I heard of the loss next day—they were all lost and were worth nearly 60l.

JOHN NEWMAN . I am in the service of Mr. Tripp, a carman, of Clerk enwell Green—on 28th December I received five cases of looking-glasses to take to the Docks—when I got there the gates were closed and I started to bring them back—on my way I stopped at a coffee-house at Limehouse about 5.o'clock, and went in to have something to eat—when I came out, my van was gone—it was brought home that night about 11 o'clock without the cases.

HENRY CUTLER . I live at West Street, Cambridge Heath—on 28th December I saw Mr. Tripp's van in Victoria Road about 10 p.m. empty, and no one looking after it—his name was on it and I took it to his place.

CORNELIUS BARNETT . I am in the service of Morriss and Hass, bagmakers, of 20, Steward Street, Smithfield—on 5th January I was sent with another boy to take these four bags on a truck to Castle Street—I saw people looking at us and afterwards missed the bags—they are my master's property.

FREDERICK JOHN VAN KESTERAN . I am an importer of butterine—I have a warehouse at Stanfield Road, Bow, which was broken into a little before Christmas, and sixteen or seventeen tubs of butterine. stolen, value about 18l.—these are four of them (produced).

WILLIAM GRANBY . I am in the service of Thomas Westwick, a spice merchant, of St. Mary-at-Hill—on 7th January I gave two cases of cassia lignea to Rowell, a carman—I afterwards heard of the loss of one of the cases and saw some similar cassia in the hands of the police.

JAMES ROWELL . I am a carman in the employ of Law Brothers, of the Old Bailey—on 4th January I received two cases from Mr. Westwick's—I stopped at Brooks's and left the van for some minutes, and when I came back one of the cases had disappeared.

STEPHEN MARNEY . (Policeman). I took Green on'another charge—he gave his father's address, Fibre Mills, Holly Bush Gardens, Bethnal Green.

Stevens's Statement before the Magistrate was, that two or three men assaulted him in Satchwell Street and he lost his hat and afterwards met Policeman 122 H. with it, who gave it to him, and he went with him and waited till another constable came.

Witness for Hateley.

WALTER JOHN MARTIN . I am a clerk at Stratford—I was in Hateley's employment off and on for the last twelve months, but only temporarily—I simply did writing for him if he required it—I let for him when he was not in London the first and second floor of No. 14 to John Walters, who paid me 4l. in advance for four weeks' rent—Mr. Hateley was not there very often—I have been there for a week sometimes without seeing him, and during his absence I let the premises.

Cross-examined. I am a building-material dealer—I first commenced to do writing for him about the end of 1880—I never acted as foreman—he did not require one—he also knew me as Jones—I had that nickname—I simply wrote for him for half an hour or an hour three or four days a week, and he paid me for my time—he can write—I sometimes had five shillings and sometimes a half-sovereign, but never any settled sum a week—I used to call to know if he had anything to do—his business was buying goods at sales of a very miscellaneous description—I do not remember his giving evidence here in October, when a man named Watson was tried for stealing circular notes (See Sessions Paper, Vol. XCII., P. 715)—it was true for him to say that his place of business was 14 and 16, Satchwell Street—he was in possession as owner—I let the place at the end of October—he gave me authority to do so and went away—I was to stay there two or three days in case anybody came—I think I saw him on the Saturday morning following—I was not working for him in October, November, or December—I kept about the place all day—Walters came on Friday afternoon, the second day I was there—I cannot fix the date—he was a respectable man 51/2 feet high and about thirty-five years old—I did not see him afterwards—he asked me if there would be any objection to his erecting a steamengine there—I told him he would have to settle that with Mr. Hateley—he said that he wanted the two floors for manufacturing purposes—I received a written memorandum from him to give him a receipt for 4l.—from that time I never saw him—Mr. Hateley came on the following Saturday, and I gave him the 4l. and the agreement—I wrote one portion he gave to Walter and he wrote the portion he gave to me—I omitted to ask his address—I was there two or three times a week in October and November, but did not remain all day—I have gone there and not seen Hateley—I went there to see if he had any work for me to do—I was employed, but I do his business and my own too—I travel for J. T. P. Bragrath and Co., wholesale ironmongers, of Upper Thames Street—I went to them at the commencement of November—I have never seen Green on the premises, but I have seen him at work at his father's place—I have known him about two years—I have not seen him there with Hateley—I pledge my oath to that—they were not constant associates—I have not seen Hateley in Green's place, and never saw him speak to young Green—I knew Green because I was in the employ of an engineer in Globe Road who knew his father—Green is not Walters—I have never seen Mr. Thompson, a factor and ships' store dealer, of 16, Satchwell Street—I was the only clerk—no one else was in the employ except Dangerfield, who was employed on odd jobs.

By the COURT. I did not apply for the subsequent rent, that was not my business—I saw no kind of business carried on, or anybody going up and downstairs, only in the basement—I was only there two or three times

a week, and for a very short time—Hateley did not afterwards apply to me to find Walters.


STEVENS then PLEADED GUILTY to a conviction in August, 1876. (See page 641.)

NEW COURT.—Thursday, April 7th, 1881.

Before Mr. Recorder.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-404
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

404. JAMES HATELEY was again indicted, with JAMES SLATER (57) and WILLIAM HOLMES (42) , for unlawfully obtaining, by false pretences, two barrels of beer, with intent to defraud. Other Counts for obtaining other property from other persons, and for conspiracy.

MR. GILL Prosecuted; MR. FRITH appeared for Hateley; and

MR. FILLAN for Holmes.

BERNARD CUDDEN . I live with my mother, who carries on a brewery at Old Heath, Colchester, which I manage—about 13th December I received this memorandum, which I answered, and in reply received this document—I wrote to the address given, Mr. Holmes, 580, Old Ford Street, and in answer received this document (produced), in consequence of which I sent two barrels of beer, value 1l. 1s. and 1l. 7s., and then received this second order, and sent two barrels more—some time afterwards I wrote to Mr. Thompson, and my letter was returned through the Dead Letter Office—an address card was afterwards shown to me in my writing, which was sent on 27th January on one of the kilderkins of ale.

EDWARD SEEWART (Inspector G. E. R.). On 19th January Holmes and Slater came to Bishopsgate New Station, and Holmes said, "Which is the way round to the other side of the station? I want to get some barrels of beer"—Slater could hear that—two boys were waiting for them, and they motioned to them to come round—that was the last I saw of them.

Cross-examined. Holmes seemed to speak for the two, he said, "We want some barrels of beer"—he did not give me to understand that Slater was sent for them, and that he was going with him.

JOHN WILLIAM PETTIT . I am a clerk at the Great Eastern Railway, Shoreditch—on 29th January Slater brought this order, "Please deliver the kilderkins of ale consigned to me from Colchester. S. Thompson"—I made out a delivery order and gave to him, and he signed the book.

Cross-examined by MR. FILLAN. He has signed "J. Smith"—he did not tell me his name was Slater.

GEORGE PEACHEY . I am employed in the Goods Office of the Great Eastern Railway—on 29th January the three prisoners came, and Slater handed me this order for two kilderkins of ale—he took them away in a small van—Slater said that they were bottling the beer.

HENRY AKERS . I live at 39, Boundary Street, and my father lets vans for hire—on 29th January, about 3.50 p.m., Slater and Holmes came, and Holmes asked me to go with a van to the Great Eastern Railway for two kilderkins of ale, and they would meet me at the bottom of the street—I met them there with the van, and Holmes said, "Follow me; we are going to the Great Eastern"—they walked, and I followed them to the station, where two casks of beer were put into my van—they said, "Go to Shoreditch," and going along they said. "Stop at the Bull and Pump," which I did—they got down, looked into the public-house, and came out

again and said, "You must take it home; we can't see the man we wanted to see; we will come and tell you"—I went home, and my father would not take the beer in.

Cross-examined by MR. FILLAN. They each said, "Take the beer home." WALTER AKERS. I am the father of the last witness—on 29th January he came home with the van with two casks of ale in it—I would not allow them inside my place—I saw Slater talking to my wife, and asked him to take the beer away—he said, "I will go and get some one else to take it," and ran away, and directly afterwards a constable came and I took it to the station.

Cross-examined by MR. FILLAN. Slater did not tell me that he got it for a man named Smith.

WILLIAM BLOWER . I live at Roydon, Suffolk—I used formerly to brew—I received this memorandum (produced), and took it to my friend Adnams, a brewer, who showed me this (another), and I left it with him.

ERNEST UNDERHILL ADNAMS . I am a brewer of Southwolo, Suffolk—Mr. Blower showed toe this memorandum—I did not sand any beer, I communicated with the police.

CHRISTIE EDWARD MAULDON . I am a partner in the White Horse Brewery, Ballingdon, Suffolk—I received this memorandum in December, in consequence of which I sent two kilderkins of ale to J. Thompson, 16, Satchwell Street—on 18th January I received a second memorandum, and sent four kilderkins—shortly afterwards I received the bill of exchange for 6l. 6s. (Payable at the London and County Bank, Colchester)—I made inquiries at the bank, but could not get any money—I wrote to Mr. Thompson, and my letter was returned through the Dead Letter Office.

WILLIAM ETHERIDGE . I keep the Princess Alice, Atlas Road, Globe Road, Mile End—in December some men called on me about sending beer—one of them goes by the name of Gifford—after I had received some beer Holmes came with Gifford and a man who called himself Smith—two kilderkins of beer were delivered by cart—I paid Smith 30s. for it and took this receipt. (Signed J. Thompson for T. Smith)—I demanded to see the brewer's invoice, and Smith showed it to me—Holmes took no part in the the conversation; he came with them, had a glass of beer, and left with them—it is not usual to buy beer in this way out of a van.

Cross-examined by MR. FILLAN. Holmes had no dealings with me—I thought he was their friend.

GEORGE FOSTER (Police Sergeant.) I was with Sergeant Thick on 24th February, and saw Holmes and Slater together outside the Cat and Mutton, London Fields—I took Holmes—we put them both in a cab and took them to the station, where they were placed among others and identified by the two Akers—I then said to Holmes, "Can you give me any account of how you became possessed of the ale?"—he said, "A man named Thomas Smith sent me"—I asked him what Smith was and where he lived—he said, "I don't know"—he gave his address, 580, Old Ford Road—I went there and found an empty shop—I went to Slater's house, and found in a bedroom this card. (The address written by Mr. Cudden)—Smith gave his address, 62, Regent's Road, London Fields, but it is No. 60.

Cross-examined by MR. FILLAN. 192, Old Ford Road is Holmes's shop—he has had it some time, I was told—I did not cross-examine him; I simply asked how he could account for it, and he was not charged at that

time—he did not tell me that Smith had been a lodger in his house and owed him four weeks' rent, and had removed to his sister's in Kingsland Road—he told me at the police-court that Smith's wife worked at artificial flower-making at Hoxton—I took everything down in my pocket-book (produced)—he did not say that Smith told him he had had a commission for some beer, and that he had threatened Smith with legal proceedings to get his rent, nothing of the kind—this is my only pocket-book.

GEORGE WRIGHT (Police Sergeant). In December last I went to 16A, Satchwell Street, and saw a slit in the gateway, over which was pasted a paper with "T. Thompson, factor and ship store dealer, 16A, Satchwell Street"—I saw it still there on 7th January, but it was removed after that—I saw Hateley in the passage close by it on 7th January and called his attention to it—I said "Who is Thompson?"—he said "I don't know"—he said that 16A had never been let since it was built—I could not find Mr. Thompson or that any person occupied 16A but Hateley—there were some boards inside 16A and two coffins, which he said were second-hand ones.

Cross-examined by MR. FRITH. Mr. Power gave him permission to store wood there—the door was partially broken, there was no lock on the gate, but there are two locks on the passage. (Looking at a plan)—I tried the front door in January and it was locked; both doors are locked now, but they are open during the day—Mr. Power might leave his gate open—Hateley went to the station on the 7th, and said that he was willing to give any information in his power, but he gave none—I did not call him as a witness till 10th February—there was then a remand, on which I was required to order him to come, and he came, and was taken in custody—I called to ask about Thompson in December, but did not see Hateley then; I heard what Mr. Powell said.

WILLIAM THICK (Police Sergeant). I took Slater, and told him it was for having two small casks of ale in his possession on 29th January supposed to have been obtained by fraud—he said "I shall not stand to it; I did not obtain them."

FREDERICK ABBERLINE (Police Inspector H). I instructed Thick and Forster to make inquiries about this beer—I know the gates in Satchwell Street, where there is a slit in the door—those gates were kept closed; access is obtained by going down the passage, and there is a door leading into 16A—I have frequently had conversations with Hateley; he never told me who Thompson was; he said that he had never let 16A to any one.

JAMES CROOKS . I am a letter-carrier—between December and January I left letters at 16A, Satchwell Street, addressed to Thompson and Co. and to Jonas Thompson, but I had very few—there was a slit in the door cut on the cross, with a wooden box behind—I have been round to the back to see it; it would not be safe if there was no box—I know Hateley by sight; I had a letter addressed to Thompson on which there was 2d. to pay; I kept it all day and then met Hateley coming out of his office; I handed it to him and he paid me the 2d.

Cross-examined by MR. FRITH. I cannot fix the date; it must have been between December and January—having 2d. to receive is a very frequent occurrence, as I have 1,000 letters a week.

Re-examined. I delivered letters there for Thompson from the beginning of December to January 10th; the letters were afterwards addressed to 5, Regent's Road, Dalston.

THOMAS SKINNER . I am a letter-carrier in the same district—I delivered some letters in the name of J. Thompson at 16A, Satchwell Street—on 10th January a letter was sent to the office telling us not to deliver letters there any more, but they were to go to 5, Regent's Road.

Witnesses for Hateley.

JOHN POWER . I am a cabinet-maker and a tenant of Hateley; he was not much at his place of business during December and January—I could not avoid seeing him when he was at the building—I remember the police coming there; he may have been there a week before that—I saw him about a fortnight before Christmas, and I don't think I saw him again till January—there was a bill on the gate, but I cannot read; there was a letter-box inside—the door between the general passage and 16A was broken in December, so that anybedy could come out of Satchwell Street down that general passage to the gateway.

Cross-examined by MR. GILL. I am not Mr. Thompson, nor am I a factor or ships' store dealer.

CHARLES GOVETT . I am in Mr. Power's service—I know Hateley: he was not much there during December and January—he asked me if I knew a man named Thompson; I said "No"—I did not see a letter in his hand—he did not ask me if it was the name of any of my workmen—I saw a paper or card over the letter slit, but I cannot read; there is a box outside the gate.

GUILTY . (See next case.)

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-405
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > with recommendation
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited; Imprisonment; No Punishment > sentence respited

Related Material

405. JAMES HATELEY, GEORGE STEVENS, ALFRED GREEN , and JOHN HOOK were again indicted, with ROBERT CLARK (24), Unlawfully conspiring to obtain goods the property of Henry Johnson, the master of Clark, and inciting Jonas Filer to steal his master's goods.

MR. GILL, for the Prosecution, offered no evidence against Hateley, Stevens, and Green; MR. HICKS defended Clark.

JONAS FILER . I am in the service of Mr. Johnson, a carman, of 2, Milk Street—Clark was in his service till he was taken on 16th February—in the beginning of February Hook spoke to me in the City Road—Leigh, who was formerly in my master's employment, was with him—Leigh said, "Are you on the van regular?"I said, "I don't know"—he said, "Well, if you can let me have any cases I can dispose of them"—I said, "Very well, I will let you know if I can do anything," and I told Mr. Johnson that evening—I saw Hook again on Thursday, 15th February—he said, "Do you know where Clark is?"—I said, "I do not, but I am going back to Milk Street"—he said, "If you see him tell him that I want him"—I mentioned that to Mr. Johnson—I saw Clark about twenty minutes afterwards, and said, "Hook is round at the Magog"—we all three met there between 11 and 11.30 a.m., and Hook said to Clark, "Have you got anything for the Docks?"—I think Clark said, "I don't know"—Hook said, "If you are going down to the Docks I will meet you at the tap-house in the Commercial Road at 2.30"—that is on the way to the Docks, it is a general stopping house where they water their horses—Hook said to me, "Have you got anything?"—I said, "I believe I am going down to Goodman's Yard"—he said, "I will meet Clark first, and what I get off of him I will take away," meaning the case, "and I will meet you afterwards in the Minories about 3 o'clock"—Clark and I went back

to Milk Street, and I mentioned to Mr. Johnson what had happened—I was at the corner of Church Street, Minories, at the time arranged, but did not see Hook—I saw Green—I saw a van and a grey horse there—somebody spoke to me, and after waiting a little while I went on—I saw Clark that night; he said "Have you seen Hook?"—I said, "No, have you?"—he said, "No, I have been looking all down the road for him"—I said, "I heard Hook was down there and had seen the governor"—he made no answer—I met Hook on the 16th, and said, "You are a pretty sort of chap to keep me waiting about there"—he said, "I could not help it, the governor was about; everything was all ready, the party that was going to buy the goods was down there; the governor was about, and I had to go away; but never mind, we will manage it differently next time; if you have anything going down to the Docks I will meet you at Wilson Street, Finsbury"—before that he asked me if I was going to the Docks, I said, "I don't know, but I will let you know"—he said, "I will wait in the Magog until you let me know"—I told that to Mr. Johnson—I had some goods for Goodman's Yard, and told Hook I was going there—he arranged to meet me in Wilson Street, and Clark was present—he said to Clark, "Where are you going?" he said, "To the East India Docks"—it was arranged that we should meet at Bloomfield Street, Finsbury—later in the day Clark said to me, "I have been down, but I don't think it is any good, I opened one of the cases and there are only eleven pistols"—later on I went to Wilson Street and saw Green standing outside a public-house—I went in to have half a pint of ale and came back to put the nosebag on the horse, and then he said, "Hook is not here, I will go and fetch him"—he left, and I went inside to him—while I was inside I heard the tail of my van go down—I came out, and saw a van and horse backed next to mine, and Green in the van—a case had been removed into the van—Hook gave me 6d., and said "It is all right, you can treat yourself, and meet me at the public-house at the corner of Pitfield Street this evening about a quarter to 7, and I will settle with you for the proceeds of the case."

Cross-examined by MR. HICKS. I have been in Mr. Johnson's service over two years—I was not in any service for two or three years before that—I have always had a good character—I have not had six months' imprisonment, only four months'—Hook spoke to me before I saw Clark in the matter—I only knew Hook by seeing him with Leigh on the morning of the 8th—I knew Leigh before by working there—I did not explain to Clark what the little game was which I was carrying on—he did not know what he was going to meet Hook about at the Magog, as far as I know—the place in Wilson Street is a public-house—I never got any lunch there because it cost too much—I got a pint of ale—I saw Clark every morning—I did not see him when the load was taken off my van—I saw him next in custody—I had to go to the Docks and deliver what I had to deliver, and state the loss to Mr. Johnson.

Re-examined. I had the four months' imprisonment for embezzlement in February, 1875—I gave myself up and pleaded guilty—I afterwards went into the service of Mr. Johnson's father, and his son has continued me in the service—he knew of my conviction—he had thirteen years' character with me.

HENRY JOHNSON . I am a carman, of 2, Milk Streets—Clark was in my employ till he was taken—Filer was in my father's employ before I took the

business—I knew of his having been convicted when my father was alive—he made a communication to me, at the beginning of February, and from what he said, I went to the Minories on 12th February, and saw Green in a van with a grey horse—I did not see Hook—nothing was stolen that day—on 16th I again had a conversation with Filer, and sent him off with a load to Goodman's Yard, and sent Clark to the East India Docks with a dummy case, which I had made up, labelled "Feathers"—he also had a case containing eleven toy pistols.

Cross-examined by MR. HICKS. The feahers and the pistols were on the same day—I did not tell him I had had a communication from Filer—a shipping note is given at the docks that did not in this case describe the articles—I had a conversation about the leaden pistols being no good—the dummy got to its destination safely—Clark was in my father's employ—he has been there longer than Filer—I have not accused him of losing things off his van—I have missed other cases of goods—Leigh is in custody now—I first missed cases in January—neither Filer or any of the prisoners knew that the case contained eleven pistols—if he opened the case it must have been in the street.

ROBERT SAGER (City Policeman). I went to Wilson Street about three o'clock, and saw Green outside a public-house with a bay horse and van—Filer went into the public-house and Green backed the van to the tail of Filer's van—they went away and both came back—Hook let down the tail and Green shifted the case into the other van—we stopped them in Hanbury Street, and I took Hook, who was driving the van—he gave his father's address—we afterwards found his correct address, and found two cases there with shipping marks—Marney took Green.

Cross-examined by Hook. I have not found any owner for the cases.

ROBERT OUTRAM (Detective Sergeant). On 16th Feb. I followed Clarke's van from Aldermanbury to Finsbury Circus, where he stopped for a minute or two, and Hook went up and spoke to him and then left, and Clark turned his horse round and went into Bloomfield Street—I followed him to the docks and saw him deliver his load—later in the evening I took him into custody, and Sergeant Boultbee told him he would be charged with two others with stealing a case—he said "I know nothing about it"—on the way to the station he said, "All that I know about it is, a young chap asked me if I knew whether Filer had gone to the docks, and I said that he was probably in Wilson Street, where he got his dinner."

Cross-examined by MR. HICKS. He had delivered his load all right at the docks—he went just as I should expect a carman to go.

Hook's Defence. Clark is innocent as far as I know.

HOOK— GUILTY.— Judgment Respited.

CLARK— GUILTY.Recommended to mercy by the Jury on account of his youth and good character Six Months' Imprisonment. ( The sentences on the other prisoners were respited till next Session. )

OLD COURT.—Tuesday, April 5, 1881, and six following days.

Before Mr. Justice Hawkins.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-406
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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406. SUSAN WILLIS FLETCHER (32) , (indicted with John William Fletchar and Francis Morton, not in custody), for unlawfully obtaining by false pretences from Juliette Annie Theodors Huertley Hart-Davies a quantity of jewellery with intent to cheat and defraud her thereof Other Counts for unlawfully obtaining other goods with like intent, and for conspiracy with the other defendants with like intent; and others for obtaining the said property by witchcraft and sorcery.


PHILIP SHRIVES (Police Sergeant E). I received a warrant for the apprehension of the prisoner—I executed that warrant at Greenock on 1st December—I found the prisoner detained there by the police—I said to her, "I am an officer from London; I hold a warrant for your arrest for obtaining a quantity of jewellery and other articles from Mrs. HartDavies"—I asked her if I should read the warrant—she said, "Yes, if you please"—it mentioned three strings of pearls and other articles—this is it (produced)—I read it to her—she laughed—I said I thought she treated the matter very lightly—she said, "I am rather amused about those pearls; I was charged with stealing them in America, and now with obtaining them by raise pretences, and I suppose they have them, as they have been at my house in Gordon Street and taken away what they thought proper, and I left them in London when I went away"—I took her to London next day—she had some luggage; I took possession of it, and brought it with me to London—it was searched at Bow Street Police-station—I found amongst it some papers which I marked—it contains what is called a deed of gift, and also a draft of that deed—I also found this bundle of papers amongst them, this letter of 29th August relating to the deed of gift, also two lists of jewellery, and a letter addressed to Mrs. Hart-Davies from Mr. J. W. Mayhew, of Boston, which I found on her—on 3rd December I had another conversation with the prisoner at Bow Street Police-court—she said, "I wish to speak to you"—I asked what she wanted—she said, "If you go to the Pantechnicon and search a small chest of drawers you will most likely find the pearls in them, as I left them there when I went away"—she also said I should find something else, but I don't at the moment remember what—I went to the Pantechnicon and found the chest of drawers, and in them a quantity of jewellery, where the prisoner told me I should be likely to find it—I left it there; there was an undertaking before the Magistrate that nothing should be removed—I hold a warrant for the apprehension of John William Fletcher, the prisoner's husband, and also for a man named Morton—I have not been able to execute that warrant; I have made every effort to do so.

Cross-examined. I was informed that they were in America—these are the documents I found—I went through them with the solicitor who had the case in the first instance, and he took possession of what he thought proper—I can't say whether the marriage certificate of Mr. and Mrs. Fletcher is amongst them; I have not looked—there has been a long correspondence and proceedings in America about this case—these papers have since been in the hands of Messrs. Wontner—Mrs. Fletcher did not tell me that she had received information of the warrant before she left America; I think she said she thought she might possibly be arrested, and she had come over to England on purpose to settle the affair—the warrant had been applied for on a sworn information—it was not in the papers that this application had been made; I think only two or three

persons knew that the warrant was in existence—I think the goods at her house in Gordon Street had been seized—no doubt she had information of that—we supplied the Greenock police with information that she was coming over, and they stopped her till we came—I found three strings of pearls at the Pantechnicon; Mrs. Hart-Davies said that one was missing—there was one double row and one single one—Mrs. Hart-Davies had said that she did not know they were there; she had not examined that particular chest of drawers—I did not compare the jewellery with the list; I had not the list in my possession—Mrs. Hart-Davies and Dr. MacGeary went through it—I believe Mrs. Davies said that several things were missing; I don't know what they were—she had a list, and I believe she checked them off; I did not.

JULIETTE ANNE THEODORA HEURTLEY HART-DAVIES . I am now living at 12, Upper Baker Street, Portman Square—I am a married woman, but not at present residing with my husband—in 1863 I was married to a man named Richards—I had one son born in 1865, and he is still alive; his name is Marmaduke Francis Julian—I lived with Mr. Richards until the year 1873—he brought a divorce suit against me, and our marriage was dissolved—I do not remember the date of the dissolution—during my married life I knew a gentleman named Lindmarke, in business relations with my husband, buying his types—at that time my husband was Government inspector general of mines at Buenos Ayrea—Mr. Lindmarke was the second Government engineer in the same place—my mother's same was Heurtley—I am her only surviving daughter—I have one brother—his name is Percy—he is alive—my mother died in September, 1876—she left behind her a great quantity of jewellery, and laces of exceptional value, and also a very extensive wardrobe—I estimate the value of the whole at about 10,000l.—this was left to me for my own separate use, and she also died worth a considerable sum of money—I cannot say how much, as the affairs have not yet been arranged in the family—I subsequently married a gentleman of the name of Hart-Davies—he had been a sailor, but when I married him he had no occupation—my mother lived at Hampton Court House—I was married in 1878 to Mr. Davies at Hampton, in Surrey—after my marriage we went to live at Hampton Court—after this the establishment was broken up, and my aunt going to Sandgate, I went to Farquhar Lodge, Upper Norwood, in June, 1878—whether my marriage was a happy one is no concern of any one—I ceased to live with Mr. Hart-Davies—in May, 1879, I became acquainted with Mr. Fletcher—at that time I was living at Farquhar Lodge with my husband—we were both of us out of health at the time, I was suffering from the heart, and trouble, and I was introduced by my husband to Mr. Fletcher, as a magnetic doctor—Mr. Fletcher called at Farquhar Lodge, I think it was some time in May—at that time I did not know his wife—when Mr. Fletcher came, after making a few preliminary remarks, he sat down and took me by the hand to magnetise me, as he called it—he remained in that position for some time—it might be ten minutes—my husband was not present—he told me not to be alarmed if he went into a trance—whilst still holding my hand he shut his eyes, and there were convulsive shivering movements, which shook him, and then in an altered voice he began to speak a message from my mother, which I wrote in my scrap-book or diary—this is it (produced)—the message was congratulations from my mother at having found me again in the spirit

life. (This contained expressions of great love and sympathy with the witness in her sufferings, the spirit of her mother being always present with her and advising the society of cheerful friends, etc.) That was detailed to me by him in answer to various questions—it is dated 6th June: that was the day on which it occurred—that was not the day I first saw him, it was the day I had the first sitting; the first day was simply a friendly visit—no; it must have been the first day I was introduced to him at Farquhar Lodge; I had seen him previously at Steinway Hall, Lower Seymour Street, Portman Square; simply as a preacher—the 6th of June must be the day I was first introduced to him; I wrote this immediately afterwards—I think it was about May or June, but I have had a severe illness since—after Mr. Fletcher had delivered the message, he came out of the trance by another convulsive movement and shivering of his frame, the same way as he went into it; he seemed as if he had been asleep, he opened his eyes and returned back apparently to his natural self—the trance lasted it might be a quarteror half an hour—he found me with tears coming down my face, with joy at having as I supposed met my mother again—at that time I was led to believe that this message came from my mother; I did do so—he seemed pleased that I should have had this message, and been so content, and he said he would come again shortly—I paid him for his visit; I paid him after his four visits—the next visit was about a week after; he came to Norwood again—he saw me alone then, he said he preferred to be alone always, it was his custom—the same happened as before, he took my hand and continued to hold it, and went into a trance, exactly the same, shutting his eyes, the altered voice, and so forth—I can't swear whether I took down in my diary the message he delivered on that occasion, it may have been; I have not taken down every message—it was about the same thing more or less, it was a repetition invariably about the same subject, a message from my dead mother, about the love she had for me, and her pleasure at meeting her child again, and that she should have found a medium or means of communicating with her child in earth-life—that was the second message that was written down by me—he came a third time—I cannot tell whether that message was the second or the third time—here is one dated July 18th—the one headed "Sphere of Light in Heaven" was not a message, that was a letter—I think this was written in France some time afterwards, but my memory fails me to-day, I am not well—I cannot tell how many interviews I had with Mr. Fletcher at Upper Norwood; there were very many private visits as a friend—I find here in my writing "Mother's letter written through the guidance of her spirit, controlling the hand and pen of her medium, W. F."—I cannot tell when that was; he wrote me a letter in Gordon Street, which he called her letter—it was arranged that I was to pay him for four visits, which I did, it was about five guineas—the 18th July was the date of one of the meetings at Upper Norwood—the same thing invariably took place at these meetings, he took my hand and went into a trance.

MR. WILLIAMS read a long extract from the diary. It commenced "Your mother is close by you; she looks happy"—it alluded to "Percy" and "your uncle" (Percy was my brother, and Mr. Sampson was my adopted uncle); "Bless dear Mr. and Mrs. Fletcher, for their medium-ship has been the instrument whereby we are brought into communication;

I love them as if they were actually members of the same family Good-bye, dear mother: Oh that sweet breath that swept over my lips." I imagined at the time that I felt something icy cold go over my lips, and I asked, through the medium, "Was that a kiss?" and the answer came "Yes, dear, I stooped over yon and kissed you as you said 'Good bye'"—at that time I had been introduced to Mrs. Fletcher—the came to see me at Upper Norwood, and her husband joined her later in the day—after the usual courtesies and polite speeches upon our mutual introduction, she said she felt within her that she could be a sister to me, that she felt a strong attraction towards me, as if we might become sisters—on that occasion we went to the Crystal Palace together, and Mr. Fletcher joined us there afterwards—we passed an agreeable afternoon, and they remained at Farquhar Lodge that night—they went to town next day, Sunday, to prepare for Steinway Hall in the evening—they invited me to attend the religious spiritualistic service that was going on there that evening—these (produced)are the tickets of admission—I went there that evening with my husband; it was a trance lecture by Mr. Fletcher—Mrs. Fletcher was present, the place was crowded—I should say there were 400 or 500 people there—it was a mixed audience; there were persons from the fashionable world, and some of the humbler classes—Fletcher went into a trance with his eyes open—he was controlled by some spirit guide—he gave a religious discourse—he gave the religious discourse in the trance, it lasted about half an hour—at the end he woke up—the service was interspersed with music, hymns and so on—the persons who sang were on the same platform with Fletcher, ranged against the wall—after the discourse was finished he came out of the trance, and after the hymns were over he went into another trance of the same sort, with his eyes open—the gas was turned on extra high—while under that trance he professed to see spirits everywhere, they giving him messages, which he delivered to various persons in the hall, to those to whom the spirits purported to send them—it gave great satisfaction to these people, who seemed to recognise their departed ones—some messages were of a more private character, and Fletcher in his trance said the spirits preferred his delivering them privately at his house alone—the messages through Fletcher were chiefly to ladies, and the defendant's chiefly to gentlemen—Mrs. Fletcher did not upon that occasion take any part in the service, except as one of the audience—the whole finished with the Lord's Prayer being chanted—after the service Fletcher mingled with the congregation, who seemed to make a great "fuss" over him—the character of the discourse was of an entirely religious nature, immortality and the life to come, and was couched in very beautiful language—the messages were sent on little pieces of paper—sometimes Fletcher would say "I see a spirit standing over that lady's head in row No. 3, I see written over that spirit the name of 'Charley,'" or some such name, and Fletcher gave a description by which the persons recognised the relative—he then said "Any one who recognises the message, let him answer it"—the Spirits would then deliver messages through the mouth of Fletcher—on this night about a dozen messages were given—the service lasted two hours—after it the Fletchers paid me a great deal more attention than to any one else, pressing me to come and see them—I remember on many occasions conversations taking place with both the Fletchers when they

came down to see me, about the jewellery which I had and about all my affairs—on one occasion the defendant went into a trance while at Norwood—I had previously shown her all the jewellery—while in the trance she said my mother desired that I should not wear the jewels too often, because the magnetism which was in them was so strong, that it might help to take me into the spirit life before my time—at that time I had a set of amethysts and diamonds, necklace and pendant and earrings—while in the trance my mother appeared to speak through the defendant, and desired me to hand them to her to wear for affection's sake, as though they were her own—my mother, she said, desired I should call her (the defendant)"sister," and Fletcher "brother," because she loved them Ike her own children—after that I continued to call the defendant "sister Bertie," and the man Fletcher "brother Willie"—they called me "sister Juliet"—a short time after this interview I paid a visit to Mrs. Fletcher at Gordon Street; I took the amethysts with me in a packet—I saw Mrs. Fletcher alone; we conversed about spiritualistic matters, and presently I heard raps from different parts of the room, which was called the seance room—a little coffee-table appeared to move by itself all along the room, and stopped at her lap—I was much amazed, and asked what the raps were—she answered that the spirits wished to communicate a message—the raps continued under the table, the defendant saying that they would spell out by raps what they wanted by the alphabet—they appeared to do so, and she said the spirits wanted to write, and she must get some paper and a pencil—she called to Fletcher, who brought a pencil and paper—she held the pencil in her hand over the paper, and her hand began to shake, as if controlled—she said it was being controlled by spirits, and she said she felt my mother was near—she wrote a message on a piece of paper, "Dear Juliet, do as you are instructed by me"—this is the paper; I saw the defendant write it; there was no one else present—the defendant said, "You perhaps know best what that means"—when I saw the words I was struck with the resemblance they bore to a previous message at Farquhar Lodge, and I presented the amethysts and diamonds to the defendant after I had seen the message—I was induced to do so by the message, which I was led to believe, and did really believe, came from my mother—after that I went home—I collected my jewels together in a bag, thinking I should be disobedient to my mother if I did not hand them over—I took them to town on the first opportunity—I went to Fletcher's house and saw Mr. Fletcher alone—he went into a trance, during which he purported to give a message from my mother—while my mother was speaking through him, as I believed, I fell on my knees before him and put the jewels into his lap, thinking I was doing an act of obedience—my mother, through Fletcher, blessed me for having obeyed her instructions, saying that if I had not done so, so strong was the magnetism in them I should have been drawn by it into spirit life before my time—Fletcher said it was a great temptation to her to have me in the spirit world, but the higher powers forbade—I felt pleased, and my mother, through him, handled the jewellery in Fletcher's hands, saying, "Oh, what happy memories these bring me!"—my mother said I was to impress upon Bertie to wear the jewels and to have no compunction, but to wear them as her own—I was to do this lest "sister Bertie" should have any compunction—after he came out of the trance he collected the jewels together, admired them

very much, and then called to his wife—Mrs. Fletcher thanked my mother for having done this, and appeared to hesitate before accepting them—I told her to hare no compunction, and she gathered them together and locked them up—the value of this jewellery was between 3,000l. and 5,000l.—I was induced solely by the trance messages from my mother, delivered by the defendant and her husband, to hand them these jewels—when they woke up they did not appear to know what had taken place, and I told them what had happened—they knew whom they were controlled by, but pretended not to know what had passed—when the husband woke from the trance, I told him what he had said, how pleased my mother was for my having carried out her directions, and given up the jewels—I went back to Norwood, and afterwards I saw the defendant wearing the jewels—I remember seeing a photograph of her while she was wearing them—this one has a dress of my mother's, and this is a chemise of hers—I showed her the extensive and valuable wardrobe of my mother, and she said it was not good for me to touch them too much, as the magnetism was so great—it consisted of valuable dresses, Indian shawls, and laces—she, on the contrary, had no objection to touch them; she packed them almost exclusively herself on account of that reason—the contents were packed in boxes and trunks, and were sent to the Fletchers' house in Gordon Street—a few things I took myself to Vernon Place, to where the Fletchers recommended me to go and lodge—the bulk of them went to Gordon Street, two or three van loads—this was in October—before I went to Vernon Place from Norwood I received numerous letters from the defendant and her husband. (MR. WILLIAMS here read a number of letters from the defendants to the witness, numbered 1 to 13 inclusive, with enclosures couched in terms of the most extravagant affection, and purporting to contain many messages from her mother.) The "Jamie" alluded to in these letters is my husband—the principal part of my property was at Gordon Street—the rooms in Vernon Place were furnished, but I had a few pieces there—I sent portions of my furniture to Gordon Street, and cases of wine—when I first became acquainted with Colonel Morton, I was living at Farquhar Lodge—the Fletchers introduced him, and afterwards spoke of him as their secretary, or their private lawyer—I believe I first saw him at their table; he was always living there—I afterwards found that he was a lodger in their house, paying two guineas a week—he is an American—I did not make any inquiries about him—I saw him constantly at Gordon Street—a short time after I was introduced to him I was at Gordon Street alone with the defendant, and in the course of conversation she took up a crystal ball, about the size of a billiard ball, and said it was a divining crystal, and she put it on her handkerchief in her hand, and gazed at it for some minutes—I asked her if she could see anything in it—she said, "Yes, I see a man with a brown beard, who appears to be sitting at a table, writing; you appear to be sitting beside him"—when I heard that, I recognised the man as Colonel Morton, because she had previously told me that I could place every confidence in him—he had a long dark beard—the prisoner said, speaking from my mother, that I could place every confidence in Morton in regard to business matters—Morton was a man of about 45 years of age—on that or on another occasion the prisoner, speaking for my mother, recommended me to go to Morton about the deed of gift—she said that, since receiving the jewels, they felt anxious about the possession of them, for fear of what the outside world might

say in the event of my going abroad without signing some paper which would give them protection, and quiet any insinuations that might be made at to how they got hold of these things—on the same day on which this conversation took place I went to Colonel Morton's study—I found him apparently waiting for me—this was in the afternoon of the day, I found him quite alone in a room on the ground floor—I told him what I had heard—I said, "I have come at the wish of the Fletchers to give instructions with regard to a paper of protection which they require on account of their responsibility;" that they felt nervous in holding all this property, in the event of any interference from one's family or mends during my absence—Colonel Morton said he thought that such a paper was desirable, and proceeded to draw up a rough draft which I should write to Mrs. Fletcher, and go and copy it at home on my own paper—am talking of the letter—he called the paper a deed of gift; it was written on blue foolscap—that was not the rough draft that I was to copy, it was a protection paper; that was on 5th August when I went down and saw him—I signed it on that day; this is it—the body of it is in Morton's writing; he put a seal on it and went through some form—he muttered something to himself; I could not hear what he said; I was very ill; I felt strangely faint; I had to lean back in my chair—he said he must mesmerise me to make me stronger and to attend to business, and he got up and made passes all over me in the air as I was sitting in his rocking-chair—he pawed me down; he did not touch me; he put his fingers over me, and men he went behind me and made passes at the back of my neck—that went on I should say ten minutes; I was more and more faint; I could only just recover to sign my name—he first came round and said "You must look alive, because you have to go home to Vernon Place to dinner," and then he said I must sign it—he wrote this document as I sat in the chair—he read out the document; I could scarcely hear it; I did not understand it, his voice sounded like a distant whisper, it was so faint—he told me he had complied with the instructions—nothing further took place at that interview—after I had signed I rested a little while, and then went home feeling very bad. (The document was read as follows:—"To whomsoever it may concern. Upon the death of my mother, Annie Heurtley, of Hampton Court House, Hampton Court, County of Middlesex, England, she left to me, Juliette Anne Theodora Hart-Davies, her daughter, a certain quantity of jewellery for my own use and control. I, the said Juliette Anne Theodora Hart-Davies, now residing in London, in consideration of the love I bear to Susie Willis Fletcher, of Boston, United States, America (now residing in London), and for the many kindnesses shown by her to me, and for Other good and sufficient considerations, here by give and relinquish to the said Susie Willis Fletcher the said jewels which my mother gave me for her own separate use and control, and have make this writing—First, that she may be fully protected in the possession of the said jewels; secondly, to say that I have made the gift of my own free will; and farther to say that she has consented to accept the jewels only upon my earnest request and solicitation, and upon assurance that it is my earnest wish and desire she should do so. The said jewels were very dear to my mother, and doubly precious to me, and I have made the above disposition of them in full conformity with my own wishes, setting forth my reasons for doing, not only for her protection, but also for my own, and that

at any time, now or in the future, there may be no question as to the right of the said Susie Willis Fletcher to the within-named jewels or property, the said gift being made by me without any reservation, with a desire that she may wear the jewels during her lifetime, and make such further disposition of them as she may think proper. Furthermore, in view of my experience with trustees and other parties since the death of my mother, I have preferred to dispose of the property in the manner above indicated, and during my lifetime, rather than it should be disposed of in a way repugnant to my own nature, by those who might obtain possession of it upon my decease, or by disposing of it by will, as I might have done but for this gift of conveyance. In witness where of I have hereunto set my hand and seal this 25th day of August, 1879. Juliet Anne Theodore Hart-Davies. Witness, Francis Morton.") I subsequently had another interview with Morton, when another document was drawn up; that might have been a week or ten days after, in Gordon Street—I previously had a conversation with the defendant alone that day—she gave me one of my mother's messages, urging me to write a letter to her to make things more binding still, that she could keep—in consequence of what she said I went to Morton's study; he was waiting for me—I told him that Mrs. Fletcher required a letter which would make it binding for her protection, that she could keep in case anything should occur to me—there was no mesmerising on this occasion—he made out a draft—he wished that I should put a head and tail to it, as he expressed it, in my own style, and take it to Farquhar Lodge and copy it out on my own crested paper; I did so, and this is it (This was found upon the prisoner)—at Morton's earnest inatructions I took back the draft to him and put it into his hands—he said he wished to destroy it—I sent the copy by post to Mrs. Fletcher(This was form of a letter to the defendant, in substance to the same effect as the dead of gift)—I supsequently made a will—prior to doing so I had conversations with the Fletchers about it—Morton was the first to suggest to me about it; he said I should take into consideration the delicate state or my health, and the uncertainty of human life, and that I ought to think of making a will before my departure for France—he suggested that I should leave the money where it would be most wanted; where it would be most useful—suggested that my great desire would be to leave the bulk of it to the cause of the propagation of spiritualism in its higher phases, the teaching of the progression in the life to come and its immortality—he said that legally speaking I could not do that, it must be done through individuals, as the outside world, having no sympathy with the cause, would say that I was mad—he suggested what could be better than to leave it in charge to my adopted brother and sister—this was after several interviews—occasionally Fletcher would come to Vernon Place and say "Morton is coming here to-day about some business," seemingly knowing nothing what it was, and occasionally Mrs. Fletcher would send him on to me on business—I had conversations with her about the desirability of making the will on divers occasions—I was speaking to my mother through the defendant as to Morton's proposition about the will; she went into a trance, shut her eyes, put her hand out and embraced me, and then entered into conversation with me as her daughter, as though it was with my mother in the spirit world—she

told me to go to Colonel Morton and he would know a good solicitor—I went to see him, or he came to see me, and I asked him if he knew a good solicitor to help him make this will valid, and to draw it out properly—at first he mentioned the firm of Murray and Miller, and I went with him to their office and he deposited a few papers with them, one was a document relating to some family matters; they were my papers—on that occasion I believe he did not touch on the subject of the will—on a later occasion I got another message from my mother through the defendant to take away the papers from Miller's, I spoke to Morton on the subject—he made an appointment, and I told him I must take the papers away from Miller's—he said "You must go, and I will meet you in a cab"—I went to Miller's and got the papers, or demanded them, and they were sent to me—Morton met me in a cab and we drove directly to another firm of solicitors, Messrs. Field, Roscoe, and Francis, of Lincoln's Inn Fields—Morton introduced me to Mr. Francis, whom he represented to be an intimate friend of his, but Mr. Francis had never seen him before—we had a conversation about the will, and Mr. Francis was to draw it up and Morton to assist—the will had been previously drawn up by Morton in my presence for me to write out, a draft—I copied it, and ultimately handed it to Mr. Francis to inspect—Mr. Francis found it necessary that a codicil should be added, and it was drawn up by him at Vernon Place—I signed the will that had been prepared by Morton, and subsequently signed the codicil that was prepared by Mr. Francis—this is the will (produced), and this is my draft copy (This bequeathed the whole of her property, both real and personal, to the defendant and her husband in equal moieties)—this is the codicil—my signature has been since cut away from both the will and codicil—nothing is said in the will or codicil about the propagation of spiritualism—Mr. Francis carried out my instructions in every way; nothing was said in his presence about leaving it to the cause of spiritualism; Morton said it was not desirable to put it in the will—it was Morton who suggested making the will; I had no idea of making it till it was proposed—I certainly believed at the time that the message about the will came from my mother, and only under those conditions would I have made it—the defendant purported to go into a trance and give instructions, and I believed her—while I was at Vernon Place I received a number of letters from Mr. and Mrs. Fletcher. MR. WILLIAMS read a large number of letters, numbered from 13A to 36, commencing 10th September, 1879, couched in endearing terms, addressed by the Fletchers to the witness at Vernon Place. One of the letters ended with the expression, "Scrunches O O O O;" another, "With one big scrunch and heaps of love;" and a third, "Willie (Fletcher) calls out from his bed, 'Don't forget to send a scrunch for me.'"

Witness. A "scrunch" means an affectionate embrace, a touch of the hands, or any affectionate gesture; it is a family expression of any little endearment—Mr. Burrows, who is referred to in some of the letters, is the Rev. James Burrows, Vicar of Hampton; he is the trustee of some property in which I have an interest—"the handsome captain" alluded to in the letters is Lindmarke; I had introduced him to the Fletchers.

A number of other letters from the Fletchers, numbered from 37 to 77, were also read, addressed to the witness whilst at Tours, couched in extravagant terms of affection, and signed "Willie" and "Bertie" enclosing messages

purporting to come from "Mums," and headed from "Sphere of Light, in Heaven" and "Sphere of Best in the Spirit World." In one letter Fletcher wrote, "Do what you like, but don't fall in love with the French officers," and in another he described a visit of himself and wife to the Albert Hall, where the mother of Mrs. Hart-Davies had a box. The spirit of the mother, he said, appeared during the performances, and said how much she would like to see the name of "Fletcher" on the door instead of that of "Heurtley." Reference was frequently made in the correspondence to the anxiety of Mrs. Fletcher's son, Alvino, as to the state of the prosecutrix. "He is afraid," said one of the letters, "that some one may steal his baby's heart away. Dear child, he does not know how twined about his love are the tendrils of Julie's heart; he does not know—what I know—that no other shares his place in Julie's heart; some day he will know so too."

Witness. Alvino is 16 years of age—the "H. D." alluded to in the letters refers to my husband—the following letter (74A) I received in another from the defendant: "Mama comes just now and says, burn all the letters, letting not one vestige of one of them escape that has a word of this complication in it. I will satisfy her mind of the purity of Willie's mind, and also of his complete trust in her. Tell her, God bless her, I will breathe upon her, and take Willie's dear soul to her, and bring hers back to him, and lore you all most tenderly all the time.—Mums"—I tore off part of the letter which enclosed this because Mr. Fletcher had the impertinence to write to me that I thought of him otherwise than a brother because of my dreams; my indignation was intense, and I wrote to them to that effect; it brought on me a severe illness—Mrs. Fletcher, in the letter purporting to come from my mother, ordered me to destroy all correspondence on the subject, and I honourably obeyed her instructions; I wrote to her threatening to break off relations—there is not the slightest foundation for suggesting that any intercourse took place between myself and Mr. Fletcher, or that there was any improper conduct between us—I wrote a number of letters to the Fletchers; I have not received them back—I have seen the "handsome captain" (Lindmarke) in Court almost every day; I do not see him now—on my return from Tours on May 1, 1880, I arrived at Dover at 3 a.m. and went to the Lord Warden; later in the day Mrs. Fletcher and the captain saw me; they had been out driving—I afterwards went with the defendant to Gordon Street, where I remained for 12 weeks until we went to America—I found a room prepared for me—I did not pay for my board, it was not necessary, I gave them all my income; that was 300l. a year, an allowance from relatives till my affairs should be arranged—Captain Lindmarcke frequently visited the house during this time—in the early days the prisoner informed me that my mother had requested that we should form a trinity—love, wisdom, and work; Fletcher was to represent wisdom, the prisoner, work, charitable work, and I was to represent the affection of the family to bind them all together; I don't know that the trinity was ever formed; I only heard of it in the "message;" it was all a mystery to me—a party was formed to go to the States, consisting of the defendant and her husband, myself, and two friends; one of them was their friend Captain Lindmarcke, the other was a lady traveling with them, a friend of Mrs. Fletcher's; I could not swear to the name; if it could be suppressed it is wished; one of her names was Julia; the family would not wish her name mentioned, the defendant would net wish it

she is too honourable a lady to be brought into this case; may I write it on a piece of paper? (The witness did so, and it was handed to the Court and the Jury)—Alvino went with us—I went with them because I was obliged to go—I noticed that there was a prodigious quantity of luggage went with the Fletchers considering that they were only going on a two months' absence; there were trunks and boxes, and I remarked on it to Fletcher; he replied that Bertie had an impression that she would never return to England—I took two ordinary-sized boxes, not large—we went by one of the Anchor Line steamers—the voyage took about 12 days—when on board the defendant and her husband were very cruel and neglectful, remarkably so, so much so that some of the passengers remarked it—the "great kindness and sisterly affection" did not continue—when we arrived at New York Mrs. Fletcher and Lindmarcke went off in one direction towards Boston; Fletcher, Alvino, the lady, and myself stayed in New York—the next day we went on to Greenfield, and thence to Lake Pleasant, where there was a spiritualist camp meeting—the prisoner and Lindmarcke joined us there—whilst at Lake Pleasant I found myself so miserable and unhappy that I consulted some friends named Horne—I was afterwards introduced to Dr. Mac (his real name being M'Geary), a celebrated magnetic healing doctor, and, in consequence of some conversation I had with him, I told Fletcher that having come to my common-sense, and changed my mind, I had arrived at the conclusion that I had been cheated and hoaxed, and that these purported communications from my mother were all got up to defraud me of my property; therefore I informed him that I desired to sever the connection; to cease to be a sister; and to demand my property and jewels back—Fletcher looked very vexed and excited, and said he could not possibly consent without first consulting the spirits—he said he was quite sure my mother would never consent to such a course—I said, on the contrary, I was sure she would approve of it, and insisted upon having my property—he refused, and again said he must consult the spirits—I retired to my room, where I was shortly afterwards joined by the prisoner, who at first deigned not to know what had passed—she said that Willie had confessed to her the night before that he left no longer only as a brother towards me—she also said he had worn a lock of my hair under his clothes for a year—I told her then of my disgust at the revelation that Fletcher had expressed towards me feelings stronger than a brother; then, suddenly changing her tone, the prisoner said, "I understand you have been asking for the jewels;" and, pointing her finger at me, she added in a firm, hard voice, "If you persist in demanding these jewels there is speedy and certain death before you"—I replied that I would have my jewels and property, and at once made preparations to start for Saratoga with the Homes—I gave Dr. Mac a power of attorney to act for me in my absence—a few stations on the road to Saratoga we were joined by Dr. Mac, who had been in another part of the train, and in consequence of what he said I got out and adjourned to Montagu, a town adjacent to Lake Pleasant—while at Montagu Dr. Mac recovered from the Fletchers some of the jewellery and property I had parted with to them—as they refused to deliver up the rest the prisoner and her husband were given into custody—the detectives took us to a bedroom in which we found Mrs. Fletcher and Lindmarcke, the latter being in his shirtsleeves—Lindmarcke knocked Dr. Mac's hat off and assaulted him,

whereupon he was handcuffed and taken to gaol—in the room we found a quantity of my property; underlinen marked with my initials, which had been worn by the prisoner—I believe a warrant was afterwards issued for the arrest of myself and Dr. Mac for stealing my own property, and conspiring to use it for our own purposes—Dr. Mac and myself afterwards returned to England, where I consulted a solicitor for the purpose of recovering the rest of my property—the prisoner was locked up, but as the offence was not committed in the States she was afterwards released—I found a considerable quantity of my property at 22, Gordon Street; but the boxes seemed to have been ransacked; some of the dresses were placed between the mattresses, a portion being in Morton's room—the house was then occupied by two ladies named Malt by—I have not recovered all my property—I made an inventory of the things, and as well as I could repacked them, and sent them to the Pantechnicon—among the things not recovered is an Indian teak box of lace, which I value at between 3,000l. and 4,000l.—there are also certain articles of jewellery missing, including a watch, and certain rings which were precious to me on account of personal recollections—I was induced to part with my jewellery solely because of the messages which according to the prisoner purported to come from my mother; the same answer applies to my lace, dresses, and all the rest of my property—I signed the deed of gift and the letter assigning the property to her, because I thought it was the command of my mother, a sense of filial obedience.

Cross-examined by MR. ADDISON. This jewellery inventory is in my handwriting—I made it out I suppose in America, unless it is a copy I made since—I made five or six copies—this I did in America, from memory—I had no list with me at the time—that I swear—I knew there were many more things, but that was all I could remember then—this represents the jewellery that the Fletchers had got hold of—I knew there were a great many missing, but I could not remember them all on that occasion—the greater part of these were recovered at different times by the aid of Dr. Mac—the 4,000l. of lace is not in this list—I was then on the subject of jewellery alone—some of this lace was bought at the Exhibition of 1876, but I was abroad at the time—my mother's lady's maid and my mother's friends informed me of it—I know it was in her possession in Hampton Court—the box was delivered to me—I could procure an invoice of it—I have not got one here—I could produce it if you wish to send to Connecticut for one of my mother's lady's maids—I have had the lace since my mother's death—it was most magnificent lace—I have not had it valued—it has been valued by various persons—if you believe in spirit life, you had better go and ask my dear mother's spirit, she had it all her life—the value of it is traditional—they were in my possession when she died—I cannot swear whether she died without a will—the affairs have to be looked into—I know that she willed her personal property and jewellery and clothes before her death—I know there ought to be a will; there is reason to know there is a will; that has to be investigated—no will has been found yet, it has to be searched for—I am the administratrix—I swore her property to be worth something under 100l.; that was not my doing; the lawyers persuaded me to do it for certain reasons of their own, which I had nothing to do with—I am not going to communicate my family affairs before this Court unless it is relevant—I was muddled by the lawyers; I could not understand

what they were doing it for; I know I had this lace in my possession, and I Know it was my mother's—in 1876, a short time before her death, she caused all this property to be gathered in boxes, and my adopted uncle, Mr. Sampson, wrote on the boxes "These things are Juliette Heurtley's," and they were passed on to me by my aunt directly I returned from France—I did not see my mother before she died, but she left them in trust verbally to be given by my uncle, and he died before I could return; I was sent for afterwards, and my aunt delivered these things to me for my mother and uncle—these were personal things already in my possession, and had nothing to do with the will—they were given to me in my mother's lifetime; it is quite immaterial whether I was there to receive them—my aunt, Mrs. Sampson, is alive now, and she can swear to the same facts—she for one has seen the 4,000l. worth of lace, and the maids, and Madame Michaux, a dressmaker and Court milliner; I don't know her exact address, it is in the City, in Oxford Street or Regent Street, I don't know; I am like a foreigner in England, I have been all my life away—she saw a good deal of it at 22, Gordon street—there is very little of this lace now at the Pantechnicon, some pickings off dresses, that is all I have seen—originally there was a list of the lace; I don't know where it is—since I have been away the Fletchers have got hold of my private papers and letters, and pulled about and ransacked everything—I have carried about the Fletchers' letters with me in my pockets—I have not got back any of my own letters—I cannot tell how many boxes there are at the Pantechnicon—besides the lace, I miss some jewellery, a watch, a diamond ring with three square cut cameos, another ring with three turquoise and some diamonds, and a very valuable cameo, with my mother's portrait—I was married to Mr. Hart-Davies in 1878—before Mr. Fletcher came to me I had seen my mother since her death, in dreams, as everybody does, more or less; we all dream more or less; they may be dreams or visions, call them what you will; sometimes they are called visions—I don't remember whether I have ever seen her when I have been out of bed and not asleep, simply as visions or dreams; it seemed like a dream passing before me—not in white robes and a crown on her head, that I remember—I suppose she appeared like something beautiful and bright, but you cannot define these things very well; I think she was more like her natural self to me, like a memory coming back to me of her natural self, more like a living memory—I think I saw a vision of her as she appeared in life while awake, I do not know; I do not remember, it was like dreaming awake, or awake dreaming—I cannot tell you how she was dressed; generally such things do not happen perhaps more than once in a lifetime I have not seen her frequently—it may have been on some occasions; I was much attached to her, and often thought of her; it was natural that I should dream about her—I have seen her distinctly as other persons see them, exactly, seeming dreams or visions, but as dreams—I had not been an acknowledged spiritualist before I knew Mr. Fletcher, but unconsciously, in feeling, on a belief in immortality, and in the sympathy of those who have gone before, in that sense; that is what I have always believed in—I never saw my mother in any sense different from that, other than as in a dream—it seemed to me in a dream as if I had seen her with my eyes—if I have said I saw her in a vision when I was wide awake, I contradict that; I have dreamt it, and it seemed to

me as a dream and a waking vision with my eyes shut; I may seem to see in my dreams with my eyes open; it is so with everybody—I never told Mr. Fletcher that I had seen the spirit of my departed mother—I told him that it seemed to me in a dream or vision that I had seen her spirit, as he taught me to call it—I cannot remember whether that was at my first introduction; it may have been—I did not tell him that she had held conversations with me—I said that it seemed to me that she bad done so—in this dream or vision it appeared to me that she told me there was no such thing as death, it was only a change, a spiritual change, that is to say, her soul or spirit was emancipated; and I felt within myself that that was true, it gave me a conviction of immortality from that moment—that was in 1876—my husband first sent Mr. Fletcher to me as a magnetic doctor—he conversed with me about spiritualism, and opened my eyes concerning some truths about immortality, as held by spiritualists, and—I was amazed, because I found they were the same truths I had felt within myself since I was a child, and I said, "Dear me, then I must have been unconsciously a spiritualist all my life"—the Fletchers were perfect strangers to my mother in her life—I think this interview was the first time I saw Mr. Fletcher, unless I had seen him at Stein way Hall a day or two before—I do not remember, but I am almost sure the first time was at Farquhar Lodge—my husband was not present—I failed to feel any magnetic influence—that was the reason I would not have more than four professional visits, and then Mr. Fletcher said the healing business was not his forte; he was a trance medium, that was his vocation—I did not know what a trance medium was in those days—he explained it by going into a trance—he told me not to be frightened, and then he began shivering and shut his eyes, and went into a trance—he held my hand all the time—he told me not to take it away, or it would bring on serious consequences; that it would injure his system; it would interrupt the magnetic current—I felt it when he shivered, it shook me too, very roughly, so roughly I could hardly keep hold of his hand, I had to hold on—it was not a pleasant sensation—I was not frightened, but I was very much astounded—it was only a little convulsive movement—it did not last long; he became calm, and then spoke in an altered voice, whilst he was delivering the message—it astounded me, filled me with awe, and caused the tears to come down my face—my husband was in another room at the time—Fletcher did not like any one to be present during these seances—I remembered all that I have entered in my diary, at the time—I wrote it down immediately he left—it made a solemn impression upon me, and I had no second thought when I wrote it—he may have repeated some sentences—he might have been half or three quarters of an hour with my hand in his—he was addressing me at the time, but he told me when he was controlled that it was my mother that was speaking to me—"controlled" was an expression he used—he purported to be controlled, I do not know whether he was or not; I have my doubts—he let me know that it was my mother who was speaking to me—I had not talked to him about my sufferings—I have suffered from many sources—my first marriage was simply an unsuitable match—I suffered in my second marriage by accidental circumstances—I did not complain to Mr. Fletcher about it; I was not in the habit of complaining—I did not tell him about my trustee—I told him that I had been more than an ordinary sufferer, but

did not go into particulars—I have been on good terms with everybody—I had no trustee; the gentleman was acting for me as trustee—I cannot answer in this Court whether I was ill treated by my first husband—I refuse to answer whether I was by my second, or by my trustee—I was never illtreated by my son, poor child, a little boy about 13 then—he was brought up by me until he was nine years old, when he was brought up by the Jesuits—I had not told Fletcher in these very words how I had suffered—that was what made me think they were genuine—I was amazed at the time—he had remarked in conversation before the trance that I wanted lively company; that it would not agree with me to be so quiet, it was like an old woman—all the stances were exactly to the same effect; that was why I copied out no more—I have no message entered in which my mother tells me to give my jewels or clothes to the Fletchers; because I was forbidden in the message to put those things down on paper—that was on one of the very early occasions—they were given to me in confidence, and I foolishly kept my word—there is an entry here on the 16th July of a seance with Lotty Chalons, when we moved a table—that was after I knew the Fletchers, but before I knew about these things—we tried on our own account to see if such a thing was possible—there was no professional medium there—the Fletchers were not there—I wanted to know for my own satisfaction whether such things were so—it seemed to me that the table moved when we had our hands on it—the table seemed to make inclinations—I was not a medium at this time—I do not suppose I was—I do not pretend to be—I may have had visions of my mother after this—I often had dreams of her—I do not remember telling Fletcher that I had seen these visions of my mother—one dream I had that I was walking with Fletcher in a garden, my mother was present, I was slumbering on a bank, and there was my mother and the defendant—it was a pure and good dream, but they translated it into an offensive one—I do not recollect in what robe I dreamt of seeing my mother, my memory fails me—I remember the pleasure 1 had in her presence—the "Jamie" referred to in these letters is my husband, I must ask you to speak in respectful terms of him—I have always treated him with respect, and I do not allow his name to be treated with disrespect—if it has been in any other way, he has been led on by the defendant—the account of the table-rapping which I have put down in my diary is the record of my own observation—I never represented myself to Fletcher as a medium—I do not know what you mean by a medium, it is a very common term used by spiritualists—I had not ceased to be a spiritualist when I knew Dr. Mac—I cannot say how many times I had seen Mr. Fletcher before I saw Mrs. Fletcher—he did not always come professionally, he sometimes came as a private friend—he was in the habit of going into these trances, and taking my hand in the same way—he almost always gave me a message from my mother; indeed, invariably so—I have only entered two in my diary—I did not enter more because they were so monotonous—I think they were chiefly blessings from my mothers—he almost invariably stopped to dinner when he came—my husband was there sometimes, but Mr. Fletcher did not like it, he was cross, he would not stay—he finished the seance, but he said he did not like two people to be present—I told my husband so—he had seances alone with Fletcher—my husband did not come in after that—he was quite agreeable to my having messages from my mother—he was present on one occasion and heard everything, and he was pleased to hear that

I had a happy message from my mother—Fletcher said to my husband "I see your father stand behind you, and he seems very grave, and recommends you to be kind to your wife"—I remember that perfectly—we afterwards laughed about it, and talked about mothers-in-law and fathers-in-law, and that his father was apparently taking my part—we were on good terms at that time—I do not see why we should be on ill terms, except through the Fletchers and their connivance—they hastened our separation, which never occurred except for business reasons—we were happier apart, but we never had a quarrel—I say the Fletchers brought it on, they said such things of him which hastened me to leave him—I had made arrangements before to leave him, I could not afford to keep him and myself too—he was to search for work—we separated for private reasons, if those reasons changed we might live together again, but we were amicably to live apart, each to find their own way—I had not agreed to live apart from him before I knew the Fletchers—reasons might have operated at that time, but they were of no concern to anybody but ourselves—Dr. Mac has been a very good friend to me—he is helping me now—he is a spiritualist—I came back from America in October last—I have not seen my husband since—I did not say yesterday that he had told me something about a 5l. note—it was Mr. Chalaine that told me about the 5l. note, not Mr. Hart Davies—I did not say that I met him a few days ago, and that he paid me a 5l. note; it is a lie—I considered Mr. Fletcher a medium of communication between my mother and myself—I did not think him a fascinating person—I thought he was very much spoiled by the ladies—it did not occur to me what he was as an individual—I only thought of him as a medium of the most beautiful communications between my mother and myself—I did not tell Mrs. Fletcher that I had been a medium from my childhood, or that I had heard voices and seen visions—I had heard voices, it seemed so, in visions or dreams, as anybody might—my ideas seemed to coincide with those of the spiritualists to a certain extent unconsciously—I did not tell her that her husband was helping me wonderfully—I did not say that I was getting well rapidly under his treatment; nothing like it—I did not ask him to introduce his wife—he told me he was going to do so—I told her he wag making me happy by these communications from my mother—I certainly did not tell her that I could not live without him; I never thought of such a thing; I could have done so very well indeed—I did not tell her not to think it strange if I detained him longer on his visits than was customary with professional men, except on one occasion, when he was detained at dinner by Mr. Davies and myself—I was simply fond of Mrs. Fletcher as another medium of communication between my mother and myself—I thought them pure people, above the generality of humankind, and in my ignorance I loved and trusted them as saints, and used extravagant and ridiculous expressions about them—I made no difference between them—there was never a secret between one and the other as far as I was concerned—I did not tell Mrs. Fletcher when I first knew her how terribly I was treated by my husband—I did not tell her that I had only married him out of pity because he was so low and degraded, and nobody else would have married him; nothing of the kind—I deny it—I never complained that he attempted to poison me—I heard people speak about it—that was what the Fletchers told me—I did not tell them so—they

led me to believe he had attempted to poison me—I did not speak to my husband about it—I was in terror of what they told me—I did not say that my husband had deceived me in regard to his social position—I did not say that he had claimed to be descended from the Duke of Beaufort, and that he was only a common sailor—he did not claim to be a descendant of the Duke of Beaufort—he has relations who are connections of good families—he never was a common sailor—it was in Vernon Place that I was led to believe he was poisoning me—I do not believe it now—it was not my business to seek my husband and tell him so—a day may come when we shall settle our business, but that has nothing to do with the Fletchers—I did not say that my child was low and had low instincts—I did not tell them when I took the jewels to the house that I was afraid my husband might make away with them—he had caused some of them to be parted with, because he was in necessity for some money at the time—I was not angry with him about it; it was done with my assent—I never complained of it, I only complained of the sadness of the necessity—it was his necessity—he wanted some business affairs arranged, and he could not get the means, and there it was—I may have lamented that some of my mother's jewels had to be parted with under those painful circumstances—I did not go into particulars with the Fletchers about it—I did not ask them to take care of them or my husband would pawn them all—we left Farquhar Lodge because we were breaking up our establishment—my husband went to Vernon Place with me; we parted when I went to France—I had to go there for the winter under the doctor's orders; I was desperately ill at the time—my husband was with me in Vernon Place—I did not then ask the Fletchers to look after my jewels for fear my husband should take them, because they had got them all at that time—they first got them when I was in Farquhar Lodge—the first present I gave was a little lace handkerchief; a trifle—that was a present on my own account, without any trance message—it was a handkerchief wrapped round a little bouquet of flowers when we were going to Tavistock House to hear Mrs. Weldon—the Fletchers did not say to me that I ought to have my husband's consent before taking these things; they took care not to mention about him—the person who was acting for me was the Rev. Mr. Burrows, of Hampton—I did not tell the Fletchers while I was at Vernon Place that I had discovered that my husband had put arsenic in my wine; I never knew that he did so, so I could not have discovered it—I never went to Gordon Street with my dress torn complaining that my husband was poisoning me, nor did I then ask Mrs. Fletcher to take care of the jewels for me—I did not say I was a believer in the affinity of spirits—I did not say that in the development of my belief I considered Mr. Fletcher was the counterpart of myself—I did not tell Mrs. Fletcher at that time that I had formed a notion of a spiritual Trinity on this earth—that was not my notion to begin with, she had said it long before, when I first knew them—I never proposed such a thing; she proposed it to me; it was quite her own idea; it was from the message—I did not know what it meant—if they used the expression, "a triangle," I did—I was like a sheep; I followed what they said—I very much regret it now, but I have learned experience—they said I was to go in as one of the triangle—I called myself Affection and Love to keep them all together, and I do not know what else—I was to be the love element of the family—she kept

pressing me to go and live with them before I went to France, and when I returned I did—she was not against the notion that I should come and live where Mr. Fletcher was—I did not say, "You are in about the same position as 500 ladies I know"—she did not say if she accepted my conditions the house would be full of triangles—in my affection for them I followed all their ways, from my mother's messages—they did not suggest to me that I should write to my aunt to see whether she would take my furniture in before I went to France—I do not know whether I did write to her—I have often written to her—I did not write to her about taking anything in—she did not refuse to have anything to do with me, or to take anything in—I did not ask her to take care of the jewels and furniture—she did not interfere with my affairs—she did not say she would not do so—I do not know as a fact that she would not—people have tried to estrange us, for their own interests and for their own purposes, but they have not succeeded—I have not had occasion to see my aunt since; we have corresponded—she is a very old lady—she has her own affairs and I have mine—Mrs. Fletcher did not suggest that before taking the furniture into the house I had better write to my trustee—afterwards, when they had got it all, and they were frightened at the responsibility of having it, they did—when I was going to France they were afraid he would come and interfere—all these things were put in their possession for safe custody, except the jewels—the jewels and the wearing apparel had nothing to do with the furniture; they were sent there because of the trance messages—the boxes were sent shut up—I was ordered not to touch my own clothes by my mother, as I supposed—they were extremely nervous for fear people should inquire how they got hold of them; and so was Morton—they did not ask for a paper from my husband—just before I left for France they once asked me to communicate with Mr. Burrows—I introduced him to them when he came to London, to make it comfortable for them before I left—I am not aware that I have not been on good terms with Mr. Burrows—on the contrary, I received a very kind letter yesterday from him—we were always on good terms; I am not aware of any quarrels—we have had many business troubles, owing to other people—I have never had occasion to complain of any one defrauding me before this—I am not in the habit of remembering my wrongs—the Fletchers urged me to ask Mr. Burrows to come to London, and he came and lunched with me at Vernon Place, and I took him on to the Fletchers; my husband was not present—it was a personal matter entirely—he knew that I was depositing these goods and jewels with the Fletchers—he could not interfere, under the terms of my marriage settlement—the wardbrobe and other things were placed in boxes and locked, and they were directed in Mr. Sampson's writing with my name, and that is the way they were delivered over to me after my mother's death by Mr. Sampson's widow—I did not communicate to the Fletchers the circumstances under which the property became mine; they only saw my name—the papers were originally outside on the boxes when they first came to their house—I fail to remember whether I ever said anything to them as to how they had been left to me; I only know they were my own—there was a separate marriage settlement—I have two separate marriage settlements, one for the personal property and one for the Sampson property—I had those two marriage settlements at the time I married Mr. Davies—I suppose they are in proper hands—one of them was executed at

the office of Mr. George Philbrick, at Girdler's Hall, and Mr. Howard Pattison was the other solicitor; they were executed at Hampton Court, where I was then residing—I did not inform my husband directly or indirectly what I had done with the jewels; I dared not, because the Fletchers would not allow me—I was living with my husband in the same house, but not in the same room—I did not tell him what I was doing with all these jewels; he did not ask me about it—the Fletchers insisted upon my not telling him; they frightened me—I thought then they were saints, and would only tell me what was right; they induced me to keep the secret—I never told my husband—he did not miss the things—I was not in the habit of wearing them about every day; he never inquired about them—there are a very great many things now at the Pantechnicon; there may be twenty or thirty boxes; quite a cartload—my husband knew perfectly well what had become of them; I told him everything honestly on my own account when I was allowed—he saw them go while I was breaking up the establishment—the Fletchers themselves were always asking me to let them take care of the things for me—I told him that the boxes were going there to be taken care of—I did not tell him anything about the jewels—I did not tell my husband they were going there because there was magnetism in them; I dare not talk that nonsense to him—I did not think it was nonsense then; I thought it was too solemn—I was all full of mystery in those days; I could not make it out—I thought it a most extraordinary thing, all these messages from my mother—my husband had seen me get a message from her and said nothing about it—he sat in the chair and his own father behind him; I was led to believe it—it was not necessary for me to tell him about the jewellery having left the house; there was no particular reason for it—we did not tell each other every silly little thing that happened—I did not tell him there was any magnetism in my jewels or any influence from my mamma—I used to talk to him about Fletcher's messages about my mother, but I was often told messages that I was never to tell him—I did not tell him I had sent away the goods in consequence of those messages—I never told him that mamma had sent me these messages about the jewels that I am aware of; I do not remember; I would not swear it—I do not remember telling him there was some mysterious influence in them—I told him the goods had gone to be taken care of when we gave up the establishment—when Mr. Burrows came I introduced him to the Fletchers, and said that they had kindly undertaken to take charge of these things during my absence in France: that is, my furniture and boxes—I did not say "all my things;" I did not point them out—I simply told him the general state of things, for their sakes, to make them easy—I did not tell him anything about the jewels; they were my personal property—the Fletchers were troubled about having these things to take care of, from what the outside world might say, they having suddenly come into all this mass of property without any explanation—they were afraid of the trustee also, as far as the furniture was concerned—I did not make use of the words that the Fletchers had kindly undertaken to take charge of all my things in my absence—I told him in general terms, to give them to understand that they need not be uneasy if anything happened to me—in a friendly way Mr. Burrows was looking after my interests—I did not say to him that I would make that my home all the rest of my life—they had proposed it

and it was probably my intention—I did not tell him so—I said it was probably my intention—to make them easy, I believe I did tell him that I had it in contemplation—he knew that I had broken up my home at Farquhar Lodge—I did not say to anybody that I had made the jewellery a present—I was not allowed—that was my private affair, not his—the furniture I hold at present—the deed of gift was intended for protection as to the outside world, but not as between me and them, they all thought I was going to die—I was to have my things back again when I liked, that was the understanding—I certainly would not will any things away from myself—I did not intend the deed to be for my protection as against my husband—I did not require any protection—my husband would not come and take them; he is not in difficulties: he never pawned the jewels; he may have parted with them—I will not enlarge upon the painful subject, I do not want my husband's name dragged up on each occasion for nothing—my mother left the things to me in her lifetime—the Fletchers did not say that I was to have them back when I wanted them, that would be entirely understood, at least I thought they were honourable, that was my notion, and I never doubted it—I thought them noble hearts—I had to explain to the Fletchers that I could not do as I liked—they wanted too much even in those days—I had to explain things to them—they pushed me on—I had to explain things to Morton—his pawing over me had the effect of making me uncommonly ill; it did not put me into a trance—I have never been in a trance—I am not aware that I have threatened my trustee with proceedings—I am not aware that Mr. Burrows was sent for before I went to France—I did not send Captain Lindmarcke to him—the centre part of this letter is Morton's writing, and the head and tail is mine—this centre part was to protect them against the outside world—they got into a dreadful state of mind, because they thought people would come and prosecute them during my absence in France—they thought I should die, and all this preparation was on the strength of my never coming back—I had not arranged to go to America before I went to France—I did not think I should be alive—I was almost in a dying condition when I went to France—I never wore those jewels since I gave them, or touched one of them—one of these photographs was sent to me by Mrs. Fletcher when I was in France, the other was sent in a packet by the same post—I did not get it out of the house when the goods were seized—she gave me this one with the jewels on and very little else, with others, to choose from, that was moderately decent and I kept it in a blotting case thinking it was not altogether correct—I did not want my sister to be shown in that costume, I had respect for her and loved her—I thought she was almost a perfect woman—this was the most decent photograph, some of the others were worse, they had nothing but a cloud, scarcely covering the figure at all, I suppose they were for circulation amongst more intimate friends—I think they were very indecent—I have not shown this one about, it has been shown about, but I have not done it—I never had any others, they were shown to me—as to the indecency, it all depends upon the frame of mind of the person who looks upon it, or the person who sends it—a statue is not indecent in itself; I considered it was indecent to have her own portrait taken in this way by the son for the photographer—I was sorry this was taken, I felt pained, I said nothing about it; I thought it a pity, that was all—I have seen Mr. Francis more than once—he was everything that was attentive and satisfactory in his

business relations—I may have had other letters from the Fletchers besides these produced—these were all I could find, I kept them as carefully as I could—I was astonished to find so many—I am not aware that I have any message from my mamma about the jewellery—they took very good care that these things should not appear on paper—I had very distinct instructions from the Fletchers always that no messages from my mother should appear on paper—I got the letter of the 19th August long after Fletcher had told me that mamma ordered me not to commit her messages to paper—he first told me in private that I was to send the things, because mamma had ordered it, then he sent me this letter to make it look proper—I thought at the time that was the reason—I thought they were keeping the messages of my mother a dead secret—they gave as a reason for my sending the things that they had so much room—that was done for caution's sake, for their own protection—I do not remember why there was no allusion in any of the letters to the effect that my mother told me to send the jewels or boxes to the Fletchers; I should presume it was from the constant messages given me—I do not know what has become of my letters—I cannot remember whether in any of my letters I made any allusion to my mother having told me to send the things there; I always kept my word, if I was told not to tell I should not—I was very often told not to tell—at the time of the table moving only the defendant and I were present—we were not sitting at the table, she was sitting near the window and the table was at the other end of the room—I was sitting near her, not touching her—there appeared to be no one else in the room; it was a room they sometimes called the seance room, and sometimes her boudour—the table moved and ran right against her, I thought it very ridiculous and extraordinary—I was very much amazed; it seemed to slide along all the way on its casters towards her lap—we heard raps all round the room—in Farquhar Lodge my table seemed to tilt up, it was a little coffee table—that I have seen ever since I was five years old—the table in Gordon Street was covered with crimson velvet, Queen Anne's style, a small thing with two tiers, just large enough to carry a tray; it went on for some time—I did not get hold of it—I had not seen any crystal ball before I saw this one; I had heard in books about Egyptian divining crystals—I did not look into the ball—the defendant had it—it seemed to be a piece of rock crystal, cut, and Fletcher once said that they were very expensive and difficult to get—there were two of them in the house—I had no curiosity to look into them—Mrs. Fletcher said that some persons had the virtue of seeing in crystals, and others had not—she told me anecdotes of what she had formerly seen in crystals—that made me believe in this crystal—it was no joke—she informed me there was a virtue in it—I felt that I had no virtue of divining things—I was fool enough not to do so—I thought she was a saint, and I loved her very much at that time, and the man too, for the same reason; I thought they were mediums of communication between my mother and myself—I do not remember having seen tables move at other houses than the defendant's—I do not know what started the table, it was a mystery to me—it went up vigorously to Mrs. Fletcher's lap, and then stopped—she spoke over the table and said the spirit wanted to communicate—she asked what it wanted, and then it made raps, and she said it was spelling out the alphabet, which was to say they wanted materials to write with—the photograph she sent meto Tours was the one taken in the long costume which had been one

of my mother's dresses—the letter in which Fletcher imputed to me a passion different from what I really felt, was somewhere about the 14th November as near as I can remember—before that he treated me simply as a brother—he has taken me in his arms as a brother would—he has given me a scrunch, and the woman always encouraged him in it—the letter refers to a dream I had—it was a beautiful dream—he said I dreamt of him as a lover, and that it was forbidden ground—I could not interpret it in any way except that he was insulting me in presuming for a moment that I loved him in any way than as a sister—I was made ill by the insult—I had congestion of the brain in consequence, the mortification was so deep, it was terrible to me; I tried to forgive it—it made me very angry and deeply mortified—I resented it at the time—I sent the letter to his wife, and she sent it back to me—after this a spirit message from my mother came, signed "Mums"—that was a pet name I always called her by when a baby—I mentioned that to both Fletchers directly after the first visit—in the defendant's letter (No. 44), he says, "Won't we have a nice long cuddling rest together"—I suppose that meant an innocent expression when brother and sister are glad to meet again—it is rather a vulgar, old-fashioned expression, certainly, but considering the defendant's antecedents of course one would not go into particulars about that—the letter alludes to the fact that I had been with Willie in France for twenty-four hours—that was when I was in Paris with him—I certainly laid my head upon his breast there, for I was very ill indeed, and he treated me as a kind of brother, to make up in every way for his treatment of me, trying to make up for what he had written—it was not in my bedroom that I laid my head on his breast, certainly not, he never entered my bedroom—no one else was present at the time—it was in the sitting-room, where we were residing together, by the fireside, and he was talking about his wife and all her fine clothes, and what she was going to do about getting up for America—we did not stay there all night talking like this, for he was very seedy, and I had been desperately ill from congestion of the brain, and it was to make an apology and the amende honorable that this woman sent him on, they were afraid to lose me—the letter from Tours of the 8th December was my letter—I had forgiven them before we came to Paris—I cannot count the number of times that I have kissed my brother, and he me, nor my sister either; there was no evil thought or intention in it, I refuse to answer such disgusting questions—I am not aware that I kissed very hard; I know how to treat a brother, and how I expect a brother to treat me—I am not aware that I have kissed him countless times; no doubt I kissed him as I lay on his breast, as a sister; I may have done—I remember how my trust was in him as a brother, in contrast to the broken trust since, and the insults that have been laid upon me by the same brother—we were not all night in that way, or part of the night; it is disgusting, it is wicked to strain this thing; it is an aggravation of the offence—this (produced) is only a portion of a letter—I have not seen my husband since my return from America, nor my trustee; there has been no necessity, we have corresponded—I have seen my son—Dr. Mac is my friend and adviser now; I have seen him very frequently: he lives very close to my residence—he has a very large practice as a magnetic doctor, a healing doctor—he does not magnetise me; I have no complaint that requires magnetising—I noticed that there was a great attraction of friendship

between Mrs. Fletcher and Captain Lindmarcke; that did not make me very angry; I don't see why it should; it was no concern of mine—I had a very deep affection for Captain Lindmarcke in years gone by; I call it an indiscreet affection, because it was a wild affection of a trusting young heart—he was the best friend I had years ago; I was entirely unprotected in those days, under peculiar circumstances, and he was the only friend I seemed to have—he was the friend of the Fletchers in these days, decidedly so, and he himself so expressed it—I introduced him to her; I was then living with my husband; Captain Lindmarcke was not a lover in any improper sense of the word at that time—Q. Do you represent that when Mrs. Fletcher was with Captain Lindmarck in the bedroom that there was anything wrong between them?—A. How can I suggest anything? I only say what I saw—I had not seen my mother for a certain number of years before her death; I cannot say exactly the number of years; it might be three or four, or more—I cannot remember the exact date when my first husband obtained the divorce; I had nothing to do with it; it was a got-up affair; I was in France at the time; I was instructed not to defend the suit, in order to get rid of my husband—there was a quarrel about business matters in the family—my dear mother was one of the friends who advised me, Mr. Sampson was another, and the rest of my family—I was innocent of any charge of adultery of any kind, but I submitted in obedience to the wishes of my family—Armenio was the name of the person with whom I was alleged to have committed adultery—I left my husband to go from Buenos Ayres to Rio—he went first to Rio and sent for me and my little boy, and I found him there; he had met me at Buenos Ayres after a long absence; he had been staying at Rio and went back to Buenos Ayres to join me, and then he went back to Rio by himself and sent for me and my little child—the name of the vessel was the Ebro that I went out in—Armenio was on board the vessel; he was introduced to me by my brother as a friend of his, an Italian gentleman, a civil engineer; I was alone, and required some one to look after me, and Armenio was introduced to me that he should protect me on the voyage, with a governess who was with him—I should say that was about the year 1874—I swear positively that there was no impropriety between Armenio and myself on board that ship; there is a conspiracy, and a cruel one, against my happiness and peace—this (produced) is a sketch of mine, of Armenio on board the Ebro—there was nothing in my letters to him intended to be wrong, decidedly not; they have been very much misrepresented—this letter (produced) is my writing; it was written to Armenio—Captain Lindmarcke accompanied Mrs. Fletcher and a party with me to America—I was not angry at his being supposed to pay any attention to her—he was most truly not my lover at that time—I made this little classic sketch (produced) ten years ago and more (MR. ADDISON proposed to put in certain letters from the witness to Captain Lindmarcke, but MR. WILLIAMS objecting, he withdrew them)—I can make a sketch of any one—"Darling" and "Sweet brother" were habitual expressions of mine before I knew the Fletchers—I am not so egotistical as to draw myself in everything I have drawn; I am very fond of drawing—I am not aware that I have a very passionate temper when I am roused; I am not known as such by those who know me—the hotel we went to was where the camp-meeting was—I was at the camp-meeting a week or ten days—it was a spiritualistic meeting; a gathering of them—we did not meet there

several times a day—we had no raps in common—services were carried on very much like what went on at Steinway Hall—I cannot tell whether the mother came, for I was not present—I saw some Shakers' services going on—they are known as the Peculiar People; distinct from the Shiverers—they were very peculiar to me, they are not what is termed spiritualists—they came to see what was going on at the spiritualist meeting, and they had some shaking on their own account—I felt my spirits depressed—it was there that I met Dr. Mac: he is not a Shaker, decidedly—he is a spiritualist—he did not bring back my mamma or any of my friends; on the contrary, he thought I was exceedingly humbugged and misled by the advice given me by the Fletchers—he said it was outrageous and cheating, and all my spiritual friends agreed in the same thing, and said that it was shameful—bringing back the departed by raps was not his form of humbug—his form of humbug at that time was simply rescuing the oppressed; the old-fashioned word "chivalry"—my eyes were opened before I spoke to Mrs. Fletcher in America and told her I had been cheated—she then pointed in a certain way and said, "There is a certain speedy death for you"—when I was at the police-court I was still under the impression that I had been hoaxed and cheated by the Fletchers, and it was a conviction growing more and more every day that it was an imposition, and that my mamma had never been—I was not subject to a delusion about my mother in America—I do not believe that she told me to give up my daily bread and everything to strangers—after Dr. Mac spoke to me it was more and more modified every day—I was perfectly amazed—I knew I had been befooled, and that I had put my affections on people unworthy of them—I was in Tours a long time, and while I was there I thought the Fletchers were truthful good people—Dr. Mac and some influential friends in America, and some passengers on board the ship, assisted me to the consciousness that this was an imposition, that it was untrue, and that they had been deceiving me—I said at the police-court that I still believed that the spirit of my departed mother communicated with me under certain circumstances, but very much modified—it has gone on modifying from day to day up to now, and I believe now, that she never communicated with them.

Re-examined. Some years ago I wrote some letters to Captain Lindmarcke, which I never received back—when I met him after the lapse of some years and started for America I did not know that he had those letters, I believed they were destroyed—I never saw them since I dispatched them to him, until this morning—he has been in Court more than once while this trial has been going on—I did not see him here yesterday, but I heard that he had been in Court—I never authorised him to part with my letters, and was not aware that he had done so—the room which the table danced across was a small one—it was furnished with curtains by the door, and heavy curtains at the windows; there were double doors and double curtains—the ball of divining crystal was in the room; that was the room in which Fletcher usually had his seances—there was a sofa there called a sociable, double seated, where persons could sit facing each other, holding their hands—it was after the spirit said that it wanted to write that Mr. Fletcher sent for writing materials—that was not the same day that I had the interview with Mr. Morton downstairs, it was later on—quite as many letters passed from me to the Fletchers as from the Fletchers to me, it may be more, from Farquhar Lodge, and Vernon Place, and when I was at Tours.

By the COURT. I ceased to live with my mother when I was married to my first husband, but my communications with her never absolutely ceased—there was never any coolness or cessation of friendly and intimate intercourse between us; there was devoted attachment—confidential friends of my mother are yet living who know me, or were living in 1879, and very intimate friends also, and friends in whom she placed very great confidence—they were also intimate friends of mine—my mother has spoken to me as to particular persons from whom she wished me to seek advice in case of her death, but they were absent—Mr. Sampson was the only person I know to whom she wished me to refer in case of any trouble I might get into—he died three weeks after her—the friends in whom she had great confidence were accessible in 1879—they were in England, but they were not intimate friends of mine, in consequence of my being absent—I had no doubt mentioned them to Mrs. Fletcher, but I do not remember when; it was chiefly medical advice, and rejoicing that she should be able to come back to me—my mother had spoken to me in her lifetime about her jewels and clothes—she always said that I should inherit them—I had not seen her for years.

DR. JAMES MACGEARY . I have practised as a doctor in the United States, and am commonly known there as Dr. Mac—I now live at 37, Upper Baker Street, London—in July last I was at the town of Montagu in the State of Massachusetts—there was what is called a camp meeting there about the middle of August, at which Madame Davies was introduced to me—she made several communications to me about the prisoner and her husband—I remember her leaving Montagu a few days after that to go to Saratoga with Mr. and Mrs. Horn—I travelled by the same train—I started in a different car but afterwards joined them in their car—you can go from one car to another while the train is in motion—I then had a conversation with Madame Davies and other people which made a change in Madame Davies's destination, and she left the train at North Adams, which is east of the mountains—I left the train with her, and returned with her to Montagu, where I consulted a Magistrate with respect to recovering her property—I took a power of attorney from her, acting more or less under the Magistrate's instructions—I also procured a search warrant, which the Magistrate put into the hands of the deputy Sheriff and the power of attorney in my hands, and I went with the Sheriff to the Camp Hotel, Lake Pleasant, where the defendant was staying—I found her in her room, and said that I came for Madame Heurtley's jewellery and other property—she said she did not know what I meant, and referred me to her husband in the dining-room—she tried to argue the matter, but I told her I did not come for argument, I merely wanted yes or no, and that I had a power of attorney from Madame to get the property—I then went to the dining-room, saw her husband, and said, "Mr. Fletcher, I come for Madame Heurtley's property, I have a power of attorney to get it," and told him he could see it if he wished—he did so, looked the matter over very carefully, and hesitated—I advised him to give up the property as the best thing to do, as there was a Sheriff's officer to take it, and to avoid scandal at the place he had better give it up—he said that he was tired of the darned stuff and did not want it any longer, but would give it up—I then went with him to his wife's bedroom, and he handed me over some jewels, some of which

he took from a drawer in the room, and some from the top of the drawers—this list (produced) was made of them in pencil by Mr. Fletcher—he signed it (a dressing-case, a diamond and opal heart, a turquoise ring, a coral fan, a variety of other articles, and a bill of exchange)—he said that was all the jewellery that was there, and he really did not know what Madame wanted, as he had no list, but some things he had had given to him, and he did not know whether she wanted those things—I told him that the Sheriff was at the door, and no doubt he would furnish him with a list—he said there was some more property which had been received the previous day at his mother-in-law's house at Lawrance and he would give me an order to get them, and I might send who I pleased for them—he did give me an order, and I gave it to the Sheriff, who brought back the remainder of the jewels—I took them into my charge, and they were deposited in my bedroom—this (produced) is a list of the articles recovered from Lawrance—Mr. Fletcher made it, and I signed it as being the balance of the jewellery. (This was signed "Received by Dr. Mac. J. W. Fletcher.") When the box was brought from Lawrance and deposited in my room Mr. Fletcher immediately came and opened it, and made this pencil inventory—he said that the jewellery in the box belonged to Mrs. Davies—about the same time a list of dresses and articles other than jewellery was made—I do not know about its being done the same day—this (produced) is a list of various dresses which Mr. Fletcher put into a box, and put into my possession; it is his own writing—he said that that was all he could find at the time—I then went to Boston—Madame Davies did not accompany me; I waited her return there at my brother's house—I left the matter in the hands of Mr. Urridge at Boston, and Madame Heurtley put it into the hands of a detective—I received a communication from the detective, and went to the defendant's house at Boston, and found her there—she was seemingly in her bed-room.

Cross-examined. I do not know that Fletcher said he was very sure Madame Heurtley had not applied for the things herself; he may have, I don't recollect now—I do not think when I went into Mrs. Fletcher's bedroom on the last occasion she took out of the box all that belonged to Madame Heurtley; she lifted some things up, and said that they belonged to Madame Heurtley—I am very sure I did not take any of her things—I was. arrested, and put under bail of 40,000 dollars—I did not appear to my bail—I do not know whether if I go back to America they will make me pay—it is my intention to try and go back—I made a solemn oath—a bargain was made, a solemn obligation entered into, that if Madame Heurtley dropped the prosecution in the police-court, all other suits in America should be dropped against me, and upon that assurance I did not go back—I did not understand that a compromise was come to that all goods should be given up on payment of 140l. expenses which the Fletchers had been put to—the compromise was come to in the United States—I am considerably an American; I was born there; 1 am a British American—Mr. Ives was Madame Heurtley's solicitor, and Mr. Mohun was the Fletchers' solicitor—I do not know anything about this deed (produced), authorising me to give up, but I can say this, that Madame Heurtley never agreed to it—I carried the agreement to her, and she demurred—Mr. Ives consented to it, as representing her—I did not know that the agreement was that if she would pay the

expenses they had been put to, they would give up the things—I did not persuade her to run away from the agreement, and come to England—she and I talked it over, and I came over—the terms were that certain property should be given up which was not in Madame Heurtley's power to give up—I did not go to the people and tell them I was going away—I am a doctor for healing the sick—I do not mean to say that I have studied medicine—I was not a provision merchant before that—I do not claim to be a doctor of medicine; I heal without medicine—I cannot say that I heal by spiritualism—I attended the spiritualist meeting at Mount Pleasant, and met Madame Heurtley there—I did not commune with her spirit at all—if you ask me if I am a Shaker in a religious point of view, I say "No"—I do not understand that I am a spiritualist doctor—since I have been in England I have tried to attend to my business, and I hope with success—I do not know whether I am the Doctor Mao in the Spiritualistic Review, who cured by the interposition of hands; I leave the patient to say that—I do cure by the laying on of hands—I am not at all modest about it—I lay my hands on whatever part it is required—I cannot say that I cure all complaints in this way—I do not know that there is a common form of seance in America, it is common to mankind, if they know how to exercise it and practise it; it is said to cure gout and rheumatism—I do not set bones (handing in some pamphets)—it is the American practice to advertise one's business—I do not know that Mrs. Heurtley is cured—this is called the Spiritualist Magazine—it describes a lady wearing a flannel on which I have laid my hands, and then it says: "It has a soft penetrating warmth, not a surface heat;" it has a soothing influence on the flannel first of all—health is communicated to flannel the same as disease is; if you lay your hand on a piece of flannel, and you give it the small-pox, you give the person the small-pox, and in the same way you take it away—I can communicate magnetic influence by the bare hand, without flannel, to any part of the human system—I have applied it to all parts; it cures all the local affections of those parts—I found Madame Heurtley suffering in her mind—I have not applied my hands to her at all; I can cure her mind by another process; not by flannel, but by advice—I have not been treating her magnetically that I am aware of—I may have given her a glass of wine or a cup of tea—having all these powers, I have not applied them to her at all, but I have cured a good many people in this way—it is understood that magnetic influence cannot be communicated through silk; we look upon silk as a non-conductor of any magnetic fluid—I did not leave the country without telling my lawyer; I had another lawyer, but Mr. Ives was Madame Heurtley's lawyer.

HENRY JAMES FRANCIS . I am one of the firm of Field, Roscoe, Francis, and Osbaldiston, solicitors, of 36, Lincoln's Inn Fields—Colonel Morton first called on me on 28th January, 1879, with a letter of introduction from an old client of ours at Boston—he then said he was going abroad, and I did not see anything of him for four or five months—he then came and spoke to me about some lady who had some law business in hand, and who was not quite satisfied with her solicitor—he brought Mrs. Hart-Davies with some papers on a Chancery matter which had been lying dormant some time—I took them home the same evening, and wrote her a long letter of advice—I subsequently prepared a codicil at her request—not a word was said about spiritualism, or that there were any spiritualistic dealings in connection with the will.

Cross-examined. Mr. Morton brought a letter of introduction from a gentleman of position, whose name I had rather not mention, and which introduced him as a member of the Boston Bar of high reputation—I made no inquiry about him; I could well rely on the introduction—these are my original notes—he saw me more than twice before Mrs. Davies came, and he gossiped with me about the difference between American and English law—he seemed to know what he was about—he came with Mrs. Davies the first time she came; that was about the Chancery business in connection with her marriage settlement—I should think she was there half an hour—that was on 16th October, 1879—my entry is, "Attending you on your calling with Mr. Morton, going through some papers in the suit, &c., perusing papers and accounts furnished, and writing you on the next day, 16th October"—I spoke to her a great deal; she knew what she was about, and was able to maintain her own interests—she understood the nature of this suit, but we did not go into questions about her property; that was the business of the first interview—she was quite up to the average of ladies on matters of business, and seemed to understand her own interests perfectly well—the next entry I made is, "Attending Mr. Morton on his calling, &c., and writing to yourself, advising you thereupon, and advising a short codicil"—I only saw Morton; I told him I could not touch her will without seeing her; that is my rule—he said that I could see her whenever I liked—I wrote to her, and she wrote to me to go to Vernon Place, as she was not well (Reading his entry)—she had to reform her settlements, and I warned her that if she was going abroad she had better make arrangements—I asked her why she had left everything to the Fletchers—she said that she had no relations, and had quarrelled with her husband, and did not intend him to have any of her property; that she owed a great many acts of kindness to the Fletchers, and thought they deserved it more than anybody else—she told me the first time she came, I think, that she had quarrelled with her husband, or else Mr. Morton did, and she said that she should not live with him any more—she did not mention a son by the husband she had been divorced from, and I feel sure that she said she had no relations—when I read the codicil to her she said nothing to me about spiritualism—no one else was present at Vernon Place while she was consulting me or when she said she had no relations, but Mrs. Mayhew was called up to witness it afterwards—nothing was said about her property, or whether the Fletchers were taking charge of it—I knew nothing about protection deeds or deeds of gift—I would not have drawn them—she was very clear, indeed, and very shrewd and sensible, and what would I think be called a fascinating woman.

Re-examined. I saw Colonel Morton a week ago; he called at my office—I cannot tell where he is now.

By MR. ADDISON. He did not come to consult me as a lawyer, nor as to whether he would be allowed to give evidence—he remarked that he had been told he could not, that his mouth was closed, and that he was sorry he had introduceed me to a thing of such an unpleasant nature—he sent in his card at my office—he said that this trial had brought him over to England, in the expectation that he should be able to give evidence, but he had been told that his mouth was closed because he had been included in the indictment—he did not say that he had consulted lawyers of eminence in England, or the American Minister, but I think he said that

he had a letter of introduction to the American Minister—I don't know when he arrived from America, but he called on me on 31st March—he did not say when he arrived—Fletcher's name was not mentioned.

PHILIP SHRIVES (Re-examined). I have got the warrant issued against Colonel Morton; it is dated 9th December—I have not been able to find or take him—the first time the prisoner was at the police-court was 3rd December—the warrant was not issued till 1st December.

Cross-examined. The first warrant was against Mr. and Mrs. Fletcher, and I anticipated her arrival at Greenock about the end of December—we were not advised whether he was coming or not, but there was private information that she was coming—we did not know that she had written to 22, Gordon Street to say that she was coming—I did not read the letter found on her—she was then brought up at Bow Street, and a charge made against her and her husband.

THOMAS LAKE . I am clerk to George Edward Philbrick, of Basinghall Street—I produce the marriage settlement of Mr. and Mrs. Hart-Davies, dated 19th February, 1878.

MR. ADDISON, at the close of the case for the prosecution, took exception to several counts of the indictment. Those alleging the obtaining of property by means of witchcraft and sorcery were held to be bad, and quashed. Others describing the property as that of Mrs. Hart-Davies were amended by substituting the name of her husband as the owner. As to the conspiracy counts, MR. ADDISON submitted that the defendant being a married woman, the inference would arise that she was acting under the control and coercion of her husband, William Fletcher; and that, as conspiracy between husband and wife could not be supported, unless the Jury were of opinion that Morton was a party to the conspiracy, those counts must fail. After hearing MR. WILLIAMS, MR. JUSTICE HAWKINS left the case on the remaining counts. The prisoner received a good character.

The Jury found the prisoner GUILTY on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 7th counts, and stated that they were of opinion that the presumption of coercion was rebutted. Twelve Months' Imprisonment.


Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-407
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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407. JOSEPH ROWSON (34) PLEADED GUILTY to feloniously marrying Amelia Wake during the life of his wife.— Nine Months' Imprisonment.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-408
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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408. WILLIAM MONEY (18) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of Jesse Bailey, and stealing a bottle of brandy and 7s. 7d., the property of Jesse Bailey.

MR. RIBTON Prosecuted.

MARY BAILEY . My husband keeps the Peto Arms—the prisoner was in the habit of coming there—on Sunday morning, 6th March, I came down between six and seven o'clock—the house had been properly closed when I went to bed—I found the parlour-window open, and the till empty—I then went into the garden, and saw the hospital subscription-box had been opened, and the money which had been in it gone—on the window-sill I found an old clasp-knife—a bottle of brandy was missing—the prisoner was in the house the last thing on Saturday night—I

informed the police on Sunday afternoon; I went to Barking Police-station—I heard him charged with being in my house—he said he was standing on the cellar-flap when two men spoke to him, who had come by the last train, and who he did not know, and they said "Let us break in here," and he was persuaded to do so, he was guilty and would pay the damages.

RICHARD JEFFREY (Police Inspector). On Sunday morning, 6th March, I went to the Peto Arms—I found foot-marks in the garden and in the yard up to the parlour-window—I compared the prisoner's boots with the marks and they corresponded exactly—I said "You will be charged with breaking and entering the Peto Arms, and stealing money from the till"—he said "Not me"—I took him to the station—after I read the charge he said "Two men came down by the last train when I was standing on the cellar-flap, and asked me if I was a thief. I said I did not know, and they said 'Let us break into this house 'or' in here.' I did it; I will pay Mrs. Bailey the damage."

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I am guilty of the charge. I am sorry for it."

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-409
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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409. AMOS BENNETT (35) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of Amelia Andrea, and stealing 37 knives, 37 forks, and other goods, her property.

MR. CROOME Prosecuted; MB. FILLAN Defended. GEORGE JEWELL (Policeman N 326). About 12.30 a.m. on Saturday, 19th February, I was passing Higham Lodge, Higham Hill, Walthamstow—I noticed a light at the dining-room window—I was about a dozen yards off—I looked in—the window was down—I saw the prisoner and two other men—a man held a light between me and the prisoner—I saw the prisoner's face—I called the watchman up, who lives near—he went back with me—we were again able to see the prisoner's face and the back of the man who was holding the candle—I drew my truncheon and rushed into the dining-room—in doing so I tumbled over a case which was ready for removal—the window was up, no one was there—I ran back into the road, and saw two men cross the road to the fields; one ran down the road, and the watchman and I followed him—we lost him—I waited for the prisoner as he came out of the gate of the field—that was about a quarter of a mile off—he was quite exhausted, out of breath, and trembled very much—I told him I should take him for being in Higham Lodge—he said "I am looking for ducks"—on the way to the station he went down on his knees and said "Do not take me any farther"—he also told me I might put up my truncheon—about that time Sergeant Low came up—I took the prisoner to the station, and then went back to the house, and found the dining-room in great confusion.

Cross-examined. I held the prisoner tight—I took out my truncheon because I was two miles from any assistance—the prisoner was not violent—there were three fields between that spot and the house; not five—a greater portion of the fields have no hedges—it was a field adjoining Perry Lane where I took him—Higham Lodge was actually away from the road—I was near enough to see the candle—it gave a bright light—Alover passed one of the men—he did not say in the prisoner's presence "This was not one of the men"—he said "He is not the man that ran down the lane," and I said "No, but he, is one of the men that were in the house"—he did not say "I saw the men, and he

is not one of them"—the man was standing still when I waited for the prisoner coming out of the gate—he was walking from the house—I nave seen the prisoner's characters—I do not know whether they are genuine—I know nothing against him—I did not take the trouble to inquire.

Re-examined. The coachman got ahead of me in pursuing the man—seeing the prisoner in the field I stood under the hedge till he came out of the gate and took him; there are no ducks there—the prisoner's whiskers have grown since.

CHARLES HART . I am coachman to Mrs. Andrea—Jewell called me and I went with him to the dining-room window, and saw three men inside the dining-room—the prisoner was in the center—the candle was shining on his face—I had a good opportunity of seeing him—I went with the other witness into the house, and followed out into the road—I followed the one who went down the road—he got away—on going back I met Jewell with the prisoner at the gate—the prisoner asked the policeman to put his truncheon away—he said "I will when I get to the station"—the prisoner fell on his knees, and said he was innocent—I went back to the house—I found property in the garden outside and in the dining-room upon the floor—I saw that property at the station.

Cross-examined. The policeman did not throw him on his knees—he held him tightly—he used no violence—he said to the prisoner "You are one of the men who were at Higham Hill Lodge"—the prisoner had no beard, only a moustache—there are no ducks there.

GEORGE LOW (Policeman N 13). On 19th February, about 1 a.m., I was near Higham Hill—I met Jewell with the prisoner in custody, who he said had committed a burglary at Higham Lodge—the others had escaped—the prisoner said he had been looking for wild fowl—I said, "You live about there somewhere?"—he said, "Yes, at the Standard public-house; we go to the held in the morning"—I went to Higham Lodge and examined the premises—I found that an entry had been made by forcing the catch of the window—a quantity of property was strewn about, which has been identified—a morocco chair was near the dining-room; I noticed footmarks on it; I compared them with the prisoner's boots, which agreed with the marks.

Cross-examined. The rows of nails from the toe to the instep is the peculiarity of the impression on the chair corresponding with the boots—there are no wild ducks; there is a reservoir; I have made no inquiries about wild ducks; I never saw any—I have seen plenty of people out with guns; they shoot starlings and sparrows, and anything they can get at.

HARRY GRAHAM (Policeman N 168). I went to Higham Lodge and searched in the neighbourhood—I found this jemmy in a field opposite the road.

Cross-examined. I have not made any inquiries about the prisoner nor about wild ducks; I have not heard of any being found about the reservoir; I have seen men there in the daytime with guns.

EDMUND GREY FRANCIS . I am manager of a public-house; I am a brother of Mrs. Andrea—I have seen the property produced at the police-court; it is hers.

GUILTY.Recommended to mercy by the Jury on account of his good character. Eighteen Month, Imprisonment.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-410
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude

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410. WILLIAM ROBINS (30), GEORGE JACKSON (30), and JAMES EWING (30) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of John Maddison and stealing a tea-caddy, 1lb of tea, and 2l. 0s. 6 1/2 d., his property.

MB. CROOME Prosecuted.

DAVID NOAKES (Policeman K 20). On Sunday, 6th March, about 4 a.m., I was with Police-constable Wilkins in the Lilliput Road, Canning Town—I noticed a light in the bar of the Lilliput Arms—I gave directions to Wilkins—I saw him go to the back of the house, and I knocked at the door with my truncheon—Mrs. Maddison spoke to me from the upper window—I heard a smashing of glass—the kitchen window was raised from the inside—I got into the kitchen, and went with the landlord, Mr. Maddison, into the bar-parlour, and then into the drinking-room adjoining—I found Jackson and Robins there; I seized Jackson; I got assistance and secured both—we tied them together and took them to the station—I afterwards went back and found a pane of glass had been cut out of the washhouse window, and a panel out of the kitchen door, and a panel out of the parlour door—Mrs. Maddison gave me these two moneyboxes and a knife—I searched Robins; I found nothing on him.

Cross-examined by Robins. You were under the seat, lying down.

Cross-examined by Ewing. I did not see a third man there.

Cross-examined by Jackson. You were partly under the seat and partly under the table—I seized you with my left hand, and in striking at you with my truncheon I struck the table and broke it—you struggled.

DANIEL WILKINS (Policeman K 151). I was with Noakes—I went by his direction to the back of the house, leaving him in front—I found the washhouse window with a pane out and the fastening broken away—I heard a tremendous smash of glass, and the three prisoners rushed towards me—the kitchen window was open; I got in—Jackson and Robins rushed by Mr. Maddison into the bar-parlour—Ewing leaped through the kitchen window when the sergeant was getting through, which I could see very plainly at the back—I ran after him about 40 yards and lost him—I went back and assisted the sergeant to take the other two to the station—I picked out Ewing from nine men at the station on the 19th.

Cross-examined by Robins. You were in the drinking-room struggling with Noakes—you did not give me any trouble.

Cross-examined by Ewing. I had my bull's-eye—Noakes could not see you.

Cross-examined by Jackson. The entrance had been made through the washhouse window—I could not get in there because my truncheon was in the way—you were struggling with Noakes in the drinking-room—I told you I should use my truncheon—I laid hold of you—I did not strike you because you surrendered—I tied your wrists together—I searched you; I found two pawn-tickets—I took you to the station—you were charged with burglariously entering the premises of Mr. Maddison—Noakes and Maddison identified you—no other constable that I am aware of.

JOHN MADDISON . I am the landlord of the Lilliput Arms—Mrs. Maddison woke me—I found Jackson and Robins in the kitchen—I threw up the window and let the sergeant in—I saw the sergeant and the constable take them—I had fastened up the premises over night; no pane of glass was then out of the washhouse window.

Cross-examined by Robins. You had not been in the house all that evening drinking—both of you were partly under the seat and partly under the table—I gave you in charge—I never saw Ewing.

Cross-examined by Jackson. I saw you in the kitchen near the table first; both of you were standing—I next saw you in the drinking-room with the sergeant"; you were partly under the table and partly under the seat, curled up, trying to get out of sight; you tried to get away—Mrs. Maddison found the money in the kitchen; it was near you; it had been removed from the bar-parlour, 16 feet away; the drinking-room is about 20 feet away.

MATILDA MADDISON . I am the wife of the last witness—I was woke up on the morning of 6th March; I went downstairs and saw Robins and Jackson taken away in custody—I found these two boxes in the kitchen; I had left them on a back shelf in the bar-parlour; they contained money; I gave them to Sergeant Noakes.

Cross-examined by Robins. You were crouched down under the table—I did not see Ewing.

Cross-examined by Jackson. I saw you in the bar-parlour struggling with the policeman—the money-boxes belong to us.

GEORGE TULETT (Policeman K 189). I was on duty on Sunday morning, 6th March, and met the prisoners together about 3.30 about 300 yards from the Lilliput Arms—they asked the time—I said, "About half-past 3"—the same morning I saw Jackson and Robins in custody at the station—I afterwards saw Ewing; I identified him as being with the others.

Cross-examined by Ewing. I did not give evidence at first at the police-court, because I was not asked—this case is not "got up" by the constables.

Cross-examined by Jackson. I saw you near the Victoria Dock Road and the Table Basin Station—I did not know you were the man I met till I saw you at the police-station—I did not know you were in custody—I heard of the burglary—I did not come to give evidence till I was called upon—I saw you two hours afterwards, and recognised you.

JOHN DILLY (Policeman K 458). On 6th March, between 6 and 7 a.m. I went to the Lilliput Arms—I found the tea caddy and chisel produced near the back parlour-door—I gave them to Sergeant Noakes.

THOMAS NUNAN (Policeman). About 11 o'clock on 19th inst. I was on duty in the East India Road, Poplar—I saw Ewing and two other men—I had received a description of them—I followed the other men—after a few minutes I called Ewing in—I told him he answered the description of a man wanted for burglary at a public-house at Plaistow—I did not know the name—I told him he would have to come to the station to be identified—he said he was at work—I took him to the station; he was placed with other men, and Williams picked him out—he made no answer to the charge.

Cross-examined by Ewing. You asked me at the police-court how long I knew you, and I said six or eight months, more or less—I knew one of the men you were with to be your brother, and the other I have since ascertained to be so.

The Prisoner's Statements before the Magistrate. Jackson says, "On the evening the burglary occurred I had been drinking in the house during the

whole night. I got intoxicated in the house. I must have fell asleep there. All I know about the burglary is that it was in the morning the sergeant came and struck me three or four times with his truncheon, as for the burglary I know nothing." Robins says: "I know nothing at all about it." Ewing says: "I know nothing at all about it; I was in bed and asleep." Robins Defence: "I went to the Lilliput Arms, and fell asleep in the tap-room, and I was found there by the policeman." Ewing's Defence: "My brothers are ill and cannot give evidence. I know nothing about the charge. I have no solicitor, and throw myself into your hands, knowing I shall get justice done." Jackson's Defence: "The evidence is conflicting. I had got a great deal of drink in me. I fell asleep in the house, and was found by the police."



He was further charged with a conviction of felony in September, 1874.

HENRY WARD . I am the principal warder of H.M. Prison, Wands-worth—I produce certificate of Robins's conviction in the name of Robert Ditchett—on December 21st, 1874, I was present—he was discharged on 6th March, 1875.

GUILTY.— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

JACKSON— GUILTY . He was further charged with a conviction in September, 1874, at Middlesex Sessions in the name of Henry Nowland.

JOHN MCINTYRE . I am Sessions warder at Coldbath Fields—I produce certificate of Jackson's conviction (Read)—I was present and proved previous convictions—I produce his photograph.

Cross-examined by Jackson. I knew you first in 1867—you were then in prison—after the 1874 conviction I met you one Saturday morning in the Farringdon Road—it was on 26th or 29th January—I had not seen you for six years—I produce your description (this stated that kit age was 26, height 5ft. 5in., complexion sallow, hair brown, partly bald in front, a hear on forehead, and numerous scars on back).

HENRY MATHESON . I produce his last description (this stated that his age was 30, height 5feet 4inches, dark hazel eyes, stoutish, scar on the forehead over left eye, nose broken and pitted, &c.)

Cross-examined by Jackson. Each prisoner is examined when admitted into the prison.

Jackson. The descriptions are not alike in the height, and no scars are mentioned in the second description. It is the officer's duty to examine all scars.

GUILTY.— Ten Years' Penal Servitude.

Before Mr. Recorder.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-411
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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411. MICHAEL GOMPERTZ (23) , Unlawfully attempting to obtain 1s. by false pretences.

MR. MRAD Prosecuted; MR. GEOGHEGAN Defended.

JAMES CARTER . My father keeps the Greyhound at West Ham—I act as barman—on 24th February, about a quarter past two, the prisoner came to the bar with two friends; he asked for half of bitter, a small lemon, and a glass of mild and bitter, which came to 5 1/2 d.; he gave me a half-sovereign, and I gave him his full change, 9s. 6 1/2 d.; it consisted of half a crown, a two-shilling piece, two sixpences, four separate shillings, and a halfpenny—he picked up the half-crown and pretended to test it with his teeth, he then did the same with the florin—one of his friends said,

"That is good enough;" the prisoner said, "Blind me, it is not good enough for me, I am a shilling short"—he then said, "Now, Mr. blind me barman, tip up the other bob"—I said, "What do you mean about the other bob" "You have your correct change"—he still made out that he was one shilling short—I said, "It must be either under one of those pots or glasses"—he and his Mends shifted the pots and glasses, but could not find it; they said they were not going away without their shilling; I knew that I had been fairly done, but to save any further bother in my father's house I gave him another shilling—there were three gentlemen in the bar at the time, Mr. Lush, Mr. Coleman, and Mr. Kidman, and I spoke to Mr. Kidman; the prisoner had left at that time—directly I gave him the other shilling they drank up and cleared off—I afterwards went out and found the prisoner at the railway station and gave him into custody.

Cross-examined. I was the only person serving in the bar—it is a medium-sized bar, with two compartments, a private and public—the prisoner came to the public side—I know Mr. Kidman as being about the parish on business, but not as a customer; the other two were nearly strangers to me; one I had known a few days—Mr. Kidman was on the private side of the bar—there is a glass partition which separates the compartments—I can't swear that I saw the prisoner take the shilling up—I can't say whether the florin I gave him was rather new, or the half-crown either—I know they were good—the prisoner did not take up his change at once, he left it lying on the bar for about a second or two; time enough form to turn round and wash the glasses—there were five or six glasses on the counter—the other two men who were with the prisoner were standing about a yard from him; they were in a cluster—I did not hear the prisoner say, "I have no other silver coin about me except a lucky sixpence"—I heard him say he had some gold, and I believe some gold was found on him at the station—I cannot say whether I saw a lucky sixpence—I knew the minute he asked for the shilling I had been done—it was not two minutes before I followed him—I did not send for a constable—our house is 500 or 600 yards from the station—I do not know that a police-constable is always stationed there—I had been serving in the bar the whole day—we have two tills; we keep the change for gold in a drawer by itself; we do not put any of the takings there—we generally have a pound's worth there in the morning—I put the half-sovereign at the back of the bar—I did not know the prisoner or his friends, they were all three strangers to me—I took the change out of the till and counted it out to him—I did not hear him say at the station that he had not got his proper change; if he had said it I must have heard him—I did not hear him say that he had 4l. 10s. in gold when he went in.

JOHN LEACH . I live at 72, Rokeby Street—on Thursday, 24th February, I was at the Greyhound public-house—I saw the prisoner there with two companions in the public compartment—I was in the same compartment, with John Coleman—I saw the prisoner supplied with refreshment; he paid with a half-sovereign—I saw the change counted out to him, a half-crown, florin, two sixpences, four separate shillings, and a halfpenny—I saw the prisoner try the half-crown with his mouth, and I believe he tried the florin—one of his friends said, "That is good enough"—the prisoner said, "It is not good enough for me; I want another

shilling"—he told Mr. Carter so, and said he supposed he wanted the shilling for himself—Carter than gave him another shilling and said, "I give it you, but I can think what I like"—the prisoner then left with his friends; I went with Mr. Carter and saw the prisoner given into custody.

Cross-examined. I had been in the house about 40 minutes—I was not at work that day—I had been at work about two or three days before, labouring for old Mr. Carter in the garden—I am not in his service; I am in Mr. Little's service—I am a bricklayer's labourer—I am in the habit of using the house two or three times a week, perhaps—I have done odd jobs for Mr. Carter in the last four years, and expect to get odd jobs again—I had a pint or two of ale there this day—it was not a bright florin that the prisoner took up, it was an old one about the same as that (produced); I don't think it was as bright—it was after the dispute about the shilling that one of them said he supposed the barman wanted the shilling for himself—I was formerly in the General Post Office; I resigned after five years—I was at the police-station when the prisoner was searched; I did not see him produce a lucky sixpence—I noticed the change as Mr. Carter put it on the counter all separately—there were no pots on the counter, or glasses; not where the money was—I did not hear Carter say the shilling might be under the glasses or pots—I was a little over a yard from the prisoner; one of his companions was between us.

JOHN COLEMAN . I was in the Greyhound, in the public compartment—I saw the prisoner there; I did not hear what he asked for—I saw him tender a half-sovereign and receive change, half-a-crown, a florin, four separate shillings, two sixpences, and a halfpenny—I saw the prisoner test the half-crown with his teeth—his friends said, "That is good enough"—he said, "It is not good enough for me; I went another shilling"—the barman said, "What have you done with the other shilling? I gave you four separate shillinge"—he gave him another shilling to avoid a bother, I believe, and he said, "You have had me for a shilling"—when the prisoner left I followed him—when the three saw me following them they separated—the prisoner ran straight on, looking back several times—he ultimately went into Stratford Bridge Railway Station and inquired for the time of a train; he had three minutes to wait—his friends had found him again, and he said, "Come on across the road and we will have a drink"—they went into the Railway Tavern; I followed them in about a minute and a half or two minutes—I said, "You are the parties that were in the dispute about the shilling"—he drank up and walked out, and directly he went outside he was given info custody by Mr. Carter.

Cross-examined. I only saw the prisoner test one coin between his teeth—I am a commercial traveller—I never made abet in my life—the-half-crown I saw him test was a well-worn one—I did not see him test a florin or a shilling—the dispute was going on for about two minutes—I never saw the prisoner before.

GEORGE HUGH KIDMAN . I have retired from business—on, 24th February I was at the Greyhound—I saw the prisoner there with his two friends and saw his served with refreshment—he paid the barman half a sovereign; I saw the change given him; there was half-a-crown, a florin, four separate shillings, two sixpences, and a halfpenny—he took up the half-crown and tried it in his mouth—he then took up a shilling

at the same time you might say with the half-crown; one of his friends said "Oh, that is good enough"—he said he was a shilling short, and the barman was trying to do him out of a shilling; the barman said he had done nothing of the sort, he had given him the correct change, but he said "I do not wish to have any disturbance like this in my father's house," and he gave him a shilling—the prisoner said "To show what a barman you are, you are trying to rob your employer"—he then left, and Carter afterwards followed him.

Cross-examined. It was the prisoner who said that Carter wanted to rob his employer, not one of his companions—I am prepared to swear to the change that Carter gave him; I have not talked this matter over since—if I said at the police-court "I cannot swear to the change," I was taken off my guard at the moment; I have no recollection of saying it—there was half the length of the bar between me and the prisoner; it is a horse-shoe bar—Carter had not his back turned to me; he was standing sideways while he was talking to the prisoner—I did not see the prisoner try the florin between his teeth; he might have done so, I cannot say because there was such a disturbance at the time—there was a kind of disturbance when they first came in as to what they were going to have, and who was to serve them—Carter took the change from the back of the bar, I think from a glass, but I am not certain—the prisoner did not dispute the change until he had bitten the half-crown—I am prepared to swear to the coins that were given him.

HENRY STYLES (Police Sergeant k 33). On 24th February, about 2.30, Mr. Carter spoke to me in the Bridge Road, Stratford, and I went with him to the Railway Tavern, where I saw the prisoner—Carter charged him with obtaining a shilling by fraud, "ringing the changes"—the prisoner said "Oh, you are the blooming barman"—on the way to the station he said "I went into the house with my friends; I had 4l. 10s. in gold and no silver, and all the money I have now is the 4l. in gold and the change he gave me"—after he was charged he voluntarily gave me the 4l. and 9s. in silver—when I was about to search him he handed me another sixpence with a hole in it, stating that that was given to him by his sister—I gave it back to him by order of the Magistrate.

Cross-examined. The florin was a bright one—he said he could not get his proper change at the public-house—I have made inquiries about the prisoner; he is a respectable young man, he holds a licence as a hawker in jewellery—licences are not granted unless there is strict investigation into character.

The prisoner received a good character.


Before Mr. Justice Hawkins.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-412
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown

Related Material

412. JOHN SULLIVAN (25) and JEREMIAH SULLIVAN (18) , Feloniously setting fire to a cask of paraffin oil, with intent to injure. Second count for attempting to set fire to the same.

MR. GEOGHEGAN Prosecuted; MR. FILLAN appeared for John Sullivan, and MR. LILLEY Fscosc Jeremiah Sullivan.

WALTER ROBERTS . I am a public wharfinger, of 83, Bishopsgate Street Within, also at the Baltic and at Rowatt's Wharf, West Ham—the prisoners have been in my employment for a number of years—John was in my employ at the time of the fire—Cornelius Noonan is my foreman—on 8th and 9th March I had a large quantity of paraffin oil in

casks on the wharf—on Tuesday morning, 8th, I received information that a fire had taken place there—I went down at once, and found that a shed had been burnt, and damage done to the extent of 2,000l.; the shed was utterly destroyed, with all its contents—the property on the wharf would amount to nearly 80,000l.—it consisted of what the insurance offices call hazardous goods, paraffin, resin, lubricating oil, tar, and that class of goods—in the early morning of the 9th I was shown a barrel by Mr. Sidney, my manager, the top of which was all charred; it had evidently taken fire.

Cross-examined by MR. FILLAN. I was insured—I simply insure the buildings; the merchants insure the goods; I believe the whole was insured—John Sullivan had not had any quarrel with me, but about a year ago I instructed my foreman not to employ either of the prisoners if he could avoid it—I did not tell the prisoners so; the foreman did not employ him when he could get better men to do the work—he did employ him at different times—he was employed on the 8th; I can't say as to the 7th.

Re-examined. The prisoners lived in the same house as the foreman; one of them is his stepson.

THOMAS BERTOLTE (Police Inspector K). I have prepared this plan of Rowatt's Wharf; it is an accurate one.

JOHN HARRIS . I live in Cook's Lane, Stratford—I am night watchman at Lea's limekilns—early on the morning of 8th March I was on duty—I saw both the prisoners, Jeremiah first, about a quarter to 1, come by the kiln, going towards his home from Bow—about a quarter past 1 I saw John going in the same direction—my attention was called to the fire between 5 and 10 minutes to 2

Cross-examined by MR. FILLAN. I was standing in the middle of: the road when they passed me, about 30 yards from them—I did not speak to them—I have known them four or five years—I did not see their faces; I recognised them by their clothes.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLET. I have not said that it was a very dark night—I know the time by the church chimes at Bow—Jeremiah passed me nearly every night, sometimes at half-past 12 and sometimes at 3 or 4 in the morning, all hours.

JOHN STEEL . I live at 847, Old Ford Road, Bow; I am night watchman in the employ of Mr. Roberta, at Rowatt's Wharf.; I nave been there 11 years and 8 months—on Tuesday morning, the 8th March, a fire happened there—I first noticed it between a quarter and 20 minutes past 2 o'clock; it broke out in the N shed—I first shouted out "Fire, Police; for God's sake, Noonan, get up!"—he is the fireman and lives on the wharf, and the two prisoners live in his house—part of the N shed joins right up to his house—I went and opened the shed and the flames came against me—just after the fire breaking out I saw the two prisoners come downstairs, from Noonan's house; Jeremiah had no shoues or stockings on, nor his hat—John came down first, he waft fully dressed; Jeremiah might be a minute or two after him—Noonan had nothing on but his night shirt—the N shed was burnt down—on Tuesday evening, the 8th, I came on duty before 5 o'clock—I made an examination of the premises by my superintendent's orders—I examined the M shed; the roof seemed secure; it contained a lot of paraffin oil in barrels, stored on the top of each other—I climbed up to the top of the barrels and walked over

them—I suppose there were 400 or 500 barrels there; I could walk upright upon them and the roof—the roof was perfect and the barrels were all right—I had asked Jeremiah on the Tuesday morning to come and help me, and do all he could with the barrels; that was about three o'clock, when the fire was raging—his answer was, "Go and yourself"—he did not come and help me—about half-past 5 o'clock on the evening of the 8th I met John Sullivan at the bottom of Bow Bridge—I said to him, "Jerry is taken for that fire"—he said, "I suppose I will be the next"—I knew that morning there was a hole found in the roof of the shed—I met John Sullivan about 10.30 on Tuesday night, the 8th, and asked him why was he not gone to bed—he said Mr. Noonan had told him to stop up to have a look round while he was having a lie down.

Cross-examined by MR. FILLAN. It was on Wednesday, the 9th, that I told John that Jerry was taken; I recollect that now—it was on the 8th that I met John at half-past 10 o'clock; I know that, because it was the very same day of the first fire, which had occurred in the morning—when I discovered the fire I took an old coat with me to throw over it to stifle it, but directly I went inside I had to step back again, there was so much fire—Noonan was the first one I saw; he had nothing on but his night shirt—I did all I could, but we could not put the fire out—John came out directly after Noonan, and then Jerry.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLET. Jerry was the last of the three; he had a coat on; he was not in his shirt sleeves and trousers only—it might be half an hour after that I asked him to give assistance—I believe he works at Abbey Mills, some distance off—there were a crowd of persons there at the time, and the engines were there at work.

CORNELIUS NOONAN . I am foreman to Mr. Roberts, at Rowatt's Wharf—Jeremiah Sullivan is my stepson, and John is my second cousin—they both slept in the house on the wharf in the same room—it is a very large house; there are four rooms on one landing; their room looked into the yard—on Tuesday, the 8th of March, between 1 and 2 o'clock, I was roused by John Sullivan; he said, "Get out as quick as you can, for the place is on fire"—he was fully dressed—I did not see Jeremiah—I got out of bed and went down, and saw the N shed in flames; it was burnt down—I took a number of barrels in the yard, and put them into the M shed; I finished that on Tuesday evening—I think M shed contained between 1,400 and 1,500 barrels of paraffin—I did not give John Sullivan any instructions on the Tuesday night to sit up and act for me—on Wednesday morning, about 8.30, I went into the M shed—I saw the roof had been broken into; the tiles were broken, and the lath-work also, large enough to admit a person through the roof—there is a bath-room and a watercloset at the gable end of the house, and between the bath window and the gable there are some small windows opening on to the roof of the shed—they are not big enough to admit a man through them—I went into the shed; I, climbed up to the top of the tier of barrels, and I saw lying on one of' the barrels a box of lucifers—I looked between the barrels and saw the leaves of a copy-book partly burnt, a small scarf, and a piece of twill stuff—the leaves of the copy-book were lately burnt, the scarf was soaked in paraffin oil, but not touched by fire; the twill was soaked in paraffin oil, not burnt—I found several of the burnt matches and several not burnt between the barrels—the leaves of the

copy-book belonged to my stepson Dennis, a lad about nine years old, and had his name on the leaves—he lives with me and goes to school—it was kept in the drawer in a back kitchen—the scarf belonged to the same boy—I have seen him wearing it; I could not say that he had it on that evening, or where it was kept—one of the barrels was scorched from fire—there had been a fire lit upon it, but the wood itself was not burnt; it was scorched—I found two more barrels scorched in the same manner; fire had been lighted upon them and gone out directly—the barrels were chopped a little on the top; they had just caught—there were three of them all in the same condition—there were some pieces of paper which which had fallen in between the barrels—the barrels would hold 43 or 44 gallons—all these materials were in between the barrels; there were none on the top—whatever had been on the top had been altogether burnt—the three barrels I speak of were all on the same level; they were painted blue, and yon could tell in a moment whether there had been fire to them—I had last seen John Sullivan on the Tuesday evening, about 6 or 7 o'clock—he might have been in the house at the time; I really cannot remember where I left him.

Cross-examined by MR. FILLAN. I saw some stuff on the top of the barrels as though some things had been burnt on them—this is it (produced)—I could not pick up what was burnt—there was a box of lucifers on the top of one of the barrels, but the paper was all burnt—there were but very little ashes—I gave the box of matches to the inspector—I have not got any of the leaves which correspond with the burnt leaves from the copy-book—it may be in the house now—I cannot identify the twill—I have not seen the boy wear the scarf lately—I never asked either of the prisoners to have a look-out for me while I went to sleep; I had plenty of watchmen without them.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLET. did not see Jeremiah come home on the 8th; I cannot remember what time he did come home—I cannot say whether I saw Jerry when John called me up; I was not in the house; I think he was getting the children out—both the sheds M and N were close to my house—I do not remember seeing Jeremiah come out on the morning of the 8th—I was excited—Jerry has not worked for me for seven or eight months; he worked at a depot belonging to James Sullivan a mile or two off.

MABY NOONAN . I am the wife of Cornelius Noonan—on Tuesday morning, 8th March, I was awoke by John Sullivan screaming "Fire"—on Tuesday evening, a little after 11, I was sitting in the same room as my husband by the fireside—John Sullivan was in the kitchen, and in and out; he was talking about sitting up all night—I said, "You had better go to bed, there are two watchmen and the fire insurance man; what do you want to sit up for?"—there was a good lire in the kitchen, and a box of matches on the mantelpiece—my children put their school books in the dresser drawer, the copybook among them—I last saw this material in a drawer of the dresser, next to that in which the copy-twill book was kept—this is my son's scarf; that was either on the dresser or in the drawer—I could not say whether I had seen it on the Tuesday evening—when I went to bed I left John sullivan in the kitchen—there was a gallon can there containing paraffin oil—I work up on wednesday morning, the 9th about 3.50, and came down into the kitchen—I found a good fire there, and the kettle on the fire, and the water singing—John

was not there; his boots were by the fire—I halloed out, "Jack, are you gone to bed?"—I got no answer—I saw that some oil had been spilt over a large bag that I used as a hearthrug—I went to bed again—about 6 John came into the bedroom and said there was no milk—I said, "Have you called Jerry up?"—he said, "I have called him once, I will call him again; give me a penny for the milk"—I gave him a penny, and he said he would go for it between 8 and 9—my husband came up and showed me these burnt things—John was in the outside kitchen washing himself, and he came in when he heard the words mentioned, and I said to him, "How came the oil here?"—he said the wood was wet, and he put some oil on it to make it burn up—I went to the can and found it quite empty, and said, "Jack, it is quite empty; there was a good drop of oil in it last night"—he said, "There would not be much after you filled the three lamps last night"—there had been about a quart in it, or a little more or less—I asked him where he was this morning when I found his boots there—he said, "I was in the water-closet"—I said, "What did you want to take your boots off for to go there, when you were above your ankles in water?"—he said, "I thought I would go to bed, but I did not"—I said, "Well, Jack, you have been up all night, and it is proved that somebody in the house has done this; you see what Mr. Noonan has brought up; where are the matches that were on the mantelpiece?"—I had missed a box exactly similar to the one produced—he said, "There were a great many in and out during the night, and they might have taken them and burnt them"—Jeremiah was in bed on this night, the whole night; it was between 6 and 7 when he came into my bedroom.

Cross-examined by MR. FILLAN. There were a great many persons in and out during the night—the hose had been turned on—I told the detective that evening that John had persuaded me and my husband to go to bed at 10 o'clock and he would look after the place, and that we agreed to it—my husband was present; that was true—it was later than 10 and later than 11—my husband did not hear anything about it—John did not request us to go to bed, and he would sit up and watch; he never said such a thing; he told the detective so—my husband said he did not require him because he had two watchmen and the insurance man, and he did not want him—my husband did go to bed—I went to bed getting on for 12, and got up about 3.50—I have not got my son's copybook, I believe the detective has it—I know this bit of twill by having used it for a duster; it was torn off a larger piece.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLET. Jeremiah came home about 11 on Tuesday night, and went to bed.

THOMAS RUSSELL . I live at 774, Old Ford Road, Bow, and am a watchman in the prosecutor's employ—I was on duty on Wednesday morning, 9th March—about 4 o'clock I heard a crash coming from the direction of the M shed; it was like the cracking of a lath or a tile—I went to work at 3 that morning, and about 3.10 I saw John Sullivan in the carmen's lobby in Meeson's Lane adjoining the wharf—I bid him the time of the morning—he was smoking a pipe—I saw him several times between that and daylight going about the premises, but not inside—I did not speak to him till 6.30; he then said he wanted the Salvage Corps man to give him some tea—the wharf gate was locked that night; he got in at the office door; I saw him coming through from the road—I did not

see Jeremiah at all that night; I saw him going to work, as I thought, at 7 in the morning.

By the COURT. I did not hear anything else but the cracking of the lath—I did not go into the shed on hearing that—I passed the shed door about ten minutes afterwards—I did not see any one about but John Sullivan that morning except the witness Steele—nobody could go on the premises without my seeing them while I was on the road, but I was not on the road all the time, I was inside the premises walking about—I saw no one going into the house or coming from it.

MART NOONAN (Re-examined). There was nobody in the house that night but the prisoner and ourselves—after I went to bed I heard nobody about but John.

GRORGE MELLISH (Police Sergeant K). On Wednesday evening, 9th March, at 7 o'clock, I saw John Sullivan at Bow, going in the direction of Stratford—I followed him to Cook's Lane, and said, "Sullivan, I am a police-sergeant, you must consider yourself in custody"—he said, "I have been expecting it, I have heard this afternoon that Jerry was taken, and I thought I should be next—I told him the charge was for attempting to set fire to Mr. Roberta's wharf—he made no reply—I took him to the station, and found on him this piece of twill sheeting—I have compared that with the piece of twill given by Noonan to Wildey and it corresponds.

Cross-examined by MR. FILLAN. I found it in his right-hand coat pocket—he subsequently said, "You know what is the matter with me, I got it for that"—he did not tell me that he was turned out of Noonan's house at 11 on Wednesday morning—he did not say he had picked this up, he said he got it out of Noonan's house to put round a sore—I took him to Inspector Wildey, and he cross-examined him, he put a long series of questions to him; he was in custody at that time—it is my mistake, Mr. Wildey's conversation was with Mrs. Noonan, it was Mrs. Noonan who had the conversation wit the prisoner—I was present with the inspector when he had the conversation with Mrs. Noonan, she was rather voluble—she did not say a word about John until Jeremiah was in custody—when she was confronted with John she said, "He persuaded us to go to bed last night, and said he would look after the place," and that they went to bed and allowed him to stop up—he said, "I never said so—it was at a second conversation that Mrs. Noonan made the statement about John—I believe Jeremiah is her own son.

ICHARD WILDEY (Police-Inspector K). On Wednesday, 9th March, I received information about this fire, and went to the wharf to make inquiries; the leaves of the copy book, the twill necktie, and matches were handed to me quite wet with paraffin oil—I went into the kitchen of Noonan's house, and in a drawer there I found this portion of a copy book which corresponds with these leaves; the writing is the same, and the cover has the name of Dennis Noonan on it—I then went to Abbey Mills, Plaistow, where I saw Jeremiah—I said to him, "I am an inspector of police; I want to see you about the fire at Mr. Roberta's "—he said "I know nothing about it"—I had a conversation with him, and told him as his statement differed materially from the information I had received I should take him into custody on suspicion of setting fire to the wharf, and also on suspicion of attempting to set fire to it that morning—he said, "I know nothing about it, I will go with your."

Cross-examined by MR. FILLAN. The first conversation with Mrs. Noonan Was at 11 in the morning, it was at 5 in the afternoon that she said that John had persuaded her husband and herself to go to bed, and that he would look after the place for them, and that they accepted his offer—that was after Jeremiah was in custody.



GUILTY .— Fifteen Months' Imprisonment.


Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-413
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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413. THOMAS CURREN (24) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of Patrick Lovett, and stealing a pair of boots the goods of John Claney.

MR. FILLAN Prosecuted.

PATRICK LOVETT . I live at 27, Rope Yard, Woolwich—about 2.30 a.m. on Sunday, 6th March, the old woman screamed and woke me out of my sleep—I turned in to the next room and saw the prisoner—I called, and two men who were upstairs came down and detained the prisoner—I gave him in charge—the window was broken open—I had secured it with a nail about six weeks before.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I found you in the room with the window open—the doors were bolted.

JOHN CLANCEY . I lodge in Mr. Lovett's house—on 6th March I was called up in the middle of the night—I saw the prisoner—I said nothing to him—he said, "anybody is likely to make a mistake when they are drunk"—he acted drunk twice, but he did not seem drunk throughout—I had left my boots in the kitchen when I went to bed—I have since seen the boots in possession of the sergeant.

EDWARD WHITTICK (Policeman R R 413). Patrick Lovett came to the station on Sunday morning, 6th March—from what he said I went to his house—I saw the prisoner—I asked him what he was doing; he said he did not know—I said, "I shall take you in custody"—lie said if it was any one else he should not go—he was sober.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I did not examine the window, I looked outside the back door.

GEORGE BRENCHLEY (Policeman RR 3). I went to Patrick Lovett's house—an entrance had been effected through the window in the back yard—the sash-cord had been recently broken—I found this pair of boots under the window in the yard—I showed them to Clancey—they were dry, although it had left off raining about 20 minutes—I found marks of toes outside and inside the yard wall—this hat was lying in the passage—I have seen the prisoner wearing a similar hat, and when he was brought to the station he had no hat on.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. A man could get over the wall without cutting himself.

GUILTY .** He also PLEADED GUILTY to a conviction of felony in July, 1879. at Maidstone, in the name of Thomas Cooper.— Five Years' Penal Servitude.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-414
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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414. THOMAS CORNEY (24) PLEADED GUILTY to stealing 117 brushes, the goods of Julius Biessbarth.— Judgment Respited. And

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-415
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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415. WILLIAM JOHN MITCHELL (37) to stealing large quantities of oil, of Henry John Francis, having been convicted in March, 1878, at Newington.— [Pleaded guilty: see original trial image.] Judgement Respited.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-416
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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416. JAMES WILSON (39), alias William Murphy, alias James Brown, Feloniously marrying Esther Gingham Lennard, his wife being alive.

MESSRS. MEAD and PURCELL Prosecuted; MESSES. FRITH and LEVEY Defended.

JASPER ENOWLES . I live at 18, Dundas Street, Edinburgh, and am a wine merchant—I know the prisoner as William Murphy—he was introduced to me a few weeks before December 28th, 1860—on that day I was present at his marriage with Isabella Patterson, at Water of Leith, a suburb of Edinburgh, in a private house—that is a custom in Scotland—Dr. William Reed, a United Presbyterian minister, officiated—I produce the certificate—they lived together four or five years—I cannot speak positively to dates—I gave evidence at the Mansion House against prisoner in 1877—these are the depositions I signed.

HENRY KEMP AVORY . I am a solicitor engaged at the office of this Court—it is the practice for depositions to be returned here upon which indictments are drawn—these depositions were returned from the Mansion House—I produce them from my custody.

Cross-examined. I swear they are the original depositions—they are signed by the alderman.!

[Depositions of Jasper Knowles, proving the prisoner's marriage in 1860, and stating that his wife was alive in 1877, were then read.]

JASPER KNOWLES (continued). Isabella Paterson has lived near the same place ever since her marriage.

Cross-examined. I have no special knowledge of the marriage laws of Scotland—I was married in the same way as the prisoner.

ESTHER KINGHAM LENNARD . I live at 33, Burton Road, Derby—I was married to the prisoner on 25th December, 1879, at St. Saviour's Church, Battersea Park Road (Certificate ready)—he described himself as having been a widower nine years—he told me he was a commercial traveller—he said he had two children in Scotland, living with his mother—he was kind at first, but afterwards unkind in words and gave me blows—for three months before he was arrested he treated me like that.

WILLIAM THOMAS . I am principal warder of Her Majesty's Prison, Newgate—on 9th April, 1877, I was present at this Court when the prisoner pleaded guilty to an indictment for bigamy in the name of William Murphy—I produce the certificate.

HENRY KEMP AVORY (Re-examined). I produce the indictment.(This was endorsed "Guilty on his own confession, to be imprisoned and kept to hard labour for eighteen calendar months.")

Cross-examined. I do not think he was represented by counsel.

MARY JANE SLATES . I live at Lewisham—I gave evidence at the Mansion House on March 7th, 1877, against the prisoner—this is my signature to these depositions (This proved the marriage with the witness on 6th October, 1873. at the parish of St. Edmund the Martyr)—he said his wife was dead.

GUILTY . He then PLEADED GUILTY to a conviction of felony in April, 1877. in the name of William Murphy.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-417
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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417. The said JAMES WILSON also PLEADED GUILTY to obtaining by false pretences from Robert Hudson 80 bags of soap; after to a conviction for felony at Clerk en well in May, 1876— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-418
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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418. JOSEPH WILLIAMS (43) PLEADED GUILTY * to unlawfully uttering a counterfeit half-sovereign— Twelve months' imprisonment. And

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-419
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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419. JOHN HARRIS* (28) to feloniously having counterfeit coin in his possession after a conviction of a like offence— [Pleaded guilty. See original trial image.] Two years' Imprisonment.

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-420
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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420. JAMES CUNNINGHAM (21) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. MEAD Prosecuted; MR. COLE Defended.

ELIZA CROCKER . My husband keeps the Rose and Crown beershop, Rodney Road, Walworth—on Saturday night, 26th February, about 10 minutes to 12, the prisoner and four or five others were in front of the bar—he paid me 1s. for some cigars—I put it in the till, and gave him a 6d. and three or four pence change—it was rather bright—a minute or two afterwards he called for a pot of ale, which came to 4d., and paid with a bright 6d., which I put in the till—he then asked for two or three cigars, and gave me 1s., bright like the other; I put it in the till, and gave him the change—my husband then called "Time," and they all went outside, but the prisoner rushed in again for half an ounce of tobacco, and put 1s. on the counter—I said "Have not you coppers, I have given you change before?"—he said "No"—I bent the 1s. with my teeth, and said "This is a nice thing"—I am not sure whether he picked it up or whether my husband gave it to him—he left without the tobacco—I then looked in the till and found two bad shillings and a bad 6d., new-looking, similar to those I took from the prisoner; about 3s. 6d. in worn coins was also in the till—I picked the prisoner out from 20 or 30 others at the station.

Cross-examined. There had been a friendly lead upstairs, and the potman waited on the people there; they assembled about 8.30, and left at 12 o'clock—they came down and drank in the bar before leaving—my husband called in a man from outside and asked him if he knew of the counterfeit coin, but I said, "That is not the man"—my husband said that he should want 2s., and another young man gave it to him.

Re-examined. The young man was in front of the bar while the prisoner was there, but I cannot say whether he had any of the beer—they all went out together.

HENRY CHARLES CROCKER . I keep the Rose and Crown—on 26th February, before I closed the house, a man, who I have no doubt is the prisoner, though I will not swear it, asked for some tobacco, and put down a 1s.—my wife said, "Have not you any coppers? you have given me several pieces of silver"—I either threw it on the counter or put it in his hand, and told him to take his book—he left directly, and my wilt went to

the till and gave me two bad shillings and a bad sixpence—I went out immediately and brought back a man whom I had seen upstairs that evening, and charged him—he said that it was not him—I said, "I shall want half a crown, otherwise I shall lock you up"—he gave me nothing, but a friend of his, named Blackgrove, gave me 2s. and then I let the man go—next day, Sunday, between 1 and 3 p.m., the prisoner came and had some drink—I did not know him—he said, "I have been accused of passing bad money; Dick Blackgrove has been round to me this morning and told me what occurred last night, and that he had to pay 2s. to get the man out, and it is arranged that we are to meet here to-day"—I said that I did not know anything about it; all I wanted was the 2s. from Blackgrove and 6d. for myself—he said, "I shan't pay it"—he then left—he did not give me any money; Blackgrove did not come—on 9th March I was called to the police-station, and saw the prisoner there—I gave the coins to the constable; these are them (produced)

Cross-examined. I do not know the name of the man I charged—the prisoner denied passing the coin.

LEONABD WABD . On 28th February I saw a description of the prisoner—I saw him at 1 o'clock next morning in the Walworth Road—I went behind him and said, "Cunningham"—he said, "Halloa; what is it?" I said, "You are wanted for uttering counterfeit coin on the 26th of last month"—he said, "Well, I am d—d"—I took him him to the station and found on him twopence, a Hanoverian medal, and a knife—Mr. Crocker pointed him out from 20 or 30 other prisoners at the police-court, and gave me these two shillings and this sixpence.

Cross-examined. The medal has a big hole through it.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These two shillings and this sixpence are bad—these medals are made for whist markers.

The Prisoner, in his Statement before the Magistrate, said that he gave Mrs. Crocker the same sixpence back which she had given to him in change for the first shilling, and that the second shilling was put down by a man who offered him a cigar, and that he did not know that the third shilling was bad

ELIZA CROCKER (Re-examined) I did not give the prisoner a sixpence which he had given me, nor did he give me one which I had given him—he gave me a bright one, and the one I gave him was not bright.

The Prisoner received a good character

GUILTY of the last uttering Six Months' Imprisonment

28th March 1881
Reference Numbert18810328-421
VerdictGuilty > unknown</