Old Bailey Proceedings.
15th December 1879
Reference Number: t18791215

ActionsCite this text | Print-friendly version | Report an error
Old Bailey Proceedings front matter.
15th December 1879
Reference Numberf18791215

Related Material


Sessions Paper.








Short-hand Writers to the Court,










On the Queen's Commission of



The City of London,





Held on Monday, December 15th, 1879, and following days,

BEFORE THE RIGHT HON. SIR FRANCIS WYATT TRUSCOTT, Knt., LORD MAYOR of the City of London; The Hon. Sir CHARLES EDWARD POLLOCK , Knt., one of the Barons of the Exchequer Division of the High Court of Justice; The Hon. Sir NATHANIEL LINDLEY , Knt., one of the Justices of the Queen's Bench Division of the High Court of Justice; Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN , Knt., Sir Thomas Dakin, Knt., THOMAS SCAMBLER OWDEN, Esq., and Sir CHARLES WHETHAM, Knt., Aldermen of the said City; Sir THOMAS CHAMBERS , Knt., Q.C., M.P., Recorder of the said City; JOHN WHITTAKER ELLIS, Esq., JOHN STAPLES , Esq., and ROBERT NATHANIEL FOWLER , Esq., other of the Aldermen of the said City; WILLIAM THOMAS CHARLEY , Esq., D.C.L., M.P., Common Serjeant of the said City; and ROBERT MALCOLM KERR , Esq., LL.D., Judge of the Sheriffs' Court: Her Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer and General Gaol Delivery of Newgate, holden for the said City, and Judges of the Central Criminal Court.









A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoner's age.


OLD COURT.—Monday, December 15th, 1879.

Before Mr. Recorder.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-78
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

78. CHARLES BRINDLEY SMITH (41) was indicted for embezzling the sums 2l. 14s. and 2l. 12s. received on account of Peter John Lupton, his master.


PETER JOHN LUPTON . I earned on business for some years as a trimming manufacturer, at 159, Aldersgate Street—I bad also a business in coals—the prisoner entered my employment in 1875, as clerk and collector, at a salary of 25s. a week; he offered to come for 1l. but I gave him 25s.—his duty at that time was solely to keep the books, and of course to collect accounts under my direction—in October, 1875, I raised his salary to 30s. a week, and afterwards gave him a commission in addition—amongst other books that he kept was one called the weekly cash book, relating to the coals—this is it (produced)—it contains entries of the coals supplied to the different customers, and the amounts received in payment—the prisoner's duty was to receive the money and pay it into the bank on the same day, it he returned during bank hours; if after bank hours his. duty was to pay it in the next morning, or if the amount was too small, so soon after as there was an amount to pay in—I find in the book an entry on January 5th, 1877, of two tons of coal supplied to Mr. James Fry, 52s: and on 26th March, 77, 2 tons 56s., to Mr. Homersham—56s. was the credit price, an allowance of 2s. a ton would be made if paid for in cash, which is the custom of the trade—there is no entry in this book of 2l. 12s. being paid by Mr. Homersham on 9th April, 1877—on 23rd April I find a credit of 10s., and on 9th February, 1878, a further credit of 10s. to Mr. Homersham in respect of those coals, and on 16th October, 2s., and 28th October, 1s., making 1l. 3s.—there is no entry of 2l. 14s. as received from Mr. Fry on 27th January, 1877, but on 9th April, 1877, there is a credit to him of 10s., on 9th March, 1878, 5s., and on 20th April, 1878, 3s., making in all 18s. credited to him—all the entries relating to Fry are in the prisoner's writing, and the two first amounts to Homersham—I am not quite sure about October 16th, 1878, I think they are in my writing, copied from the waste book—I posted this

up from the coal journal—I have not got that here; the prisoner kept the—I have spoken to the prisoner generally with regard to the amounts owim for coal, the precise words I could not swear to; I said in substance that was dissatisfied with the numerous amounts of outstanding balances on this particular class of accounts, and could not understand why they were no paid—his reply was that he could not get them in—his duty was on receivin these two sums to enter them in this book on the day that they were received or within the week that they were received—he should enter the who amount if he received it in one sum; he had no authority to enter these separate items—in September this year I was compelled to file a petition for liquidation, and I handed over my affairs to my trustee, Mr. Edward Smith—the coal-book debts amounted to about 100l.—on the last day or so of the prisoner's service, before handing over the list to the trustee, with a statement of each balance that was owing, I asked the prisoner to go through then with me, and if there were any differences in the addresses to mention then—he attended in my private office, and we went through them together there was an alteration in one or two cases—he said nothing about the book debts, except as to one he said that it had been placed against the debtor's contra account; it was neither of these two—I knew nothing of these two receipts until after these proceedings were instituted—he has never accounted to me for them except in the items I have mentioned.

Cross-examined. I made a statement of my affairs when I filed my petition, through my clerk, the prisoner—I signed it—I returned my liablities at about 2,800l., and my assets at about 300l.—I don't know whether the coal accounts were included—I believe they were, as bad debts—I kept a waste book, not a daily cash book—if I received money from a customer I have sometimes put it in my pocket, but not without entering it—I did set remove any goods belonging to my creditors two days before the clerk to the trustees came into possession—I sent an office desk and table upstairs to Mr. Jackson's office, not secretly—I sent some discoloured neckties to Mr. Nettleship, a hosier, a few doors off—I did not instruct Mr. Croft, my solicitor, to offer 140l. to repurchase my assets—I do not think the defendant has any I O U of mine—he never handed me back I O U's of mine to the amount of 80l. on making up the waste book—he has certainly not had 20 of my I O U's—I never took any of them from his desk—I never told Mr. Fry that if the prisoner bad not given so much information to the receiver I should never have brought these proceedings, or that if my solicitor had not been instructed to ask the questions he did at the police-court, I would have withdrawn from the prosecution; I swear that—Mr. Hilton was in the habit of making entries in the waste book—I had a duplicate key of the petty cash drawer; the petty cash book was kept there—I may have taken out receipts from that drawer that had been placed there by Hilton, but not surreptitiously—the cash was never balanced—that was Hilton's duty and the prisoner's—it is a fact that satisfactory cash balances were never made—there was a daily cash book, it was not properly kept; it was the prisoner's duty to keep it—I complained of its not being kept, but it was of no avail—I kept a banking account—it was very rarely that my cheques were returned; it did sometimes happen—I did not tell Mrs. Earl that I believed the prisoner had made this mistake through my handling the petty cash.

Re-examined. This letter (produced) is the prisoner's writing, addressed to Mr. Cudley, one of the committee of inspection—in this letter the prisoner

pleaded distress and stated "I was unfortunately foolishly tempted to make use of some of the moneys receeived in payment of the coals, but not before I had parted with my things. I throw myself at your feet and ask thai you will allow me to pay back the amounts by instalments. I have a wife and five children. The amounts taken in the hour of trouble wen all previous to Christmas, 1877."

JAMBS FRY . I live at 22, Clayland Road, Kennington, and am manager for Mr. Homersham—in January, 1877, I was supplied with two tons of coals by Mr. Lupton, and on the 26th January I paid the account, 2l. 14s.—it was sent to Mr. Lupton's office, and this receipt was brought back. (This was signed, "For P. J. Lupton, C. B. Smith") I also paid this account at 2l. 16s. that was owing by Mr. Homersham in the same way, and got back this receipt on the day it bears data. (This was also signed," C. B. Smith," and dated April 9, 1877.)

PETES JOHN LUPTON (Re-examined). These receipts are in the prisoner's writing.

EDVARD SMITH . I am an accountant, of 105, Cheapside, in partnership with Mr. Everett—I was appointed receiver and manager of Mr. Upton's estated—I am now joint trustee with Mr. Chatterley—I directed my clerks to prepare a statement of affairs—the prisoner attended at the office, as is usual with the servants of liquidating debtors, to assist—the coal accounts were included in the statement as not worth anything—I attempted to collect some of the debts, amongst others those supposed to be owing by Mr. Fry and Mr. Homersham, and these receipts were produced, showing that they had been paid—upon that I and Mr. Chatterley requested the prisoner to attend and account for it, and he admitted that he had received the moneys, and not accounted for them—he stated that he had received from 40l. to 50l., and had not accounted for it.

Cross-examined. The prisoner made an offer that his friends would find the money if no proceedings were taken, but I declined to receive any such offer—I was aware of the removal of the table and desk into Mr. Jackson's office, and I took them into account in the statement of fixtures as being part of the estate—I have heard of the removal of the neckties; I was not aware of the magnitude of it; I should certainly have inquired into it; I should look on it as a fraudulent preference.

Re-examined. Mr. Lupton explained to me that just before he filed his petition he owed Mr. Nettleship 2l. or 3l., and that he had given him some soiled neckties in payment—I remonstrated with him, and said he should not have done so, but being soiled I did not do more.

GUILTY . He also

PLEADED GUILTY to a previous conviction at this Court in May, 1872.— Fifteen Months' Imprisonment.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-79
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > unknown

Related Material

79. HENRY HILL (13) and ALEXANDER STEWART (35) , For indecent acts and practices.

MR. RIBTON Prosecuted.

STEWART PLEADED GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.


15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-80
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

80. AUGUSTUS JOHN BATT (30) PLEADED GUILTY to stealing whilst employed in the Post-office, a post letter containing a 5l. note, the property of Her Majesty's Postmaster-General.— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-81
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentencesNo Punishment > sentence respited

Related Material

81. JOHN WILLIAM MERRY (32) to stealing and receiving a quantity of watches the property of William Benson and others his masters, and CHARLES ANDREW BESSELL (25) feloniously receiving the same.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Judgment Respited.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-82
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

82. MALCOLM FAULKNER (19) to three indictments for feloniously forging and uttering orders for the delivery of goods,— Six Months' Imprisonment. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-83
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

83. WILLIAM SCOTT (62) to stealings sheet, two shawls, and other articles of William Wass, also to assaulting Edward Trevatt, a police constable, in the execution of his duty, having been before convicted.**— Twelve Months' Imprisonment. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-84
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

84. CHARLES BAKER (20) to stealing 72 packages of violet powder of the London and North Western Railway Company, having been before convicted.— Two Years' Imprisonment. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] And

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-85
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

85. GEORGE ALLEN (37) to stealing a bale con-taining 209 shawls of Archibald Greenham.— Twelve Months' Imprisonment. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

NEW COURT.—Monday, Dec. 15th, 1879.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-86
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

86. GEORGE MITCHELL (38) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. POLAND and COOKE Prosecuted.'

CHARLES HILL (Policeman E 337). On 10th November I was on duty in Oxford Street, and about 5 p.m. saw the prisoner in Castle Street, near Tottenham Court Road—I said "Have you been in Tottenham Court Road V—he said "No"—I said "You answer the description of a man who is wanted for uttering counterfeit coin"—he said "You are labouring under a great mistake; I am not the man"—I said "I shall take you in custody on this charge"—on the way to the station he put his hand in his pocket, and when he pulled it out he had some money in it which looked like silver—I wrenched it from his hand, and found these six bad florins, one wrapped in newspaper and five loose—I searched him at the station, and found on him a screwdriver, a black lead pencil not cut, a bottle of blacking, a new collar, and 1s. 6d. in silver and bronze—he gave his name Morris—he was taken to the Court next morning; I gave him into the charge of another constable, and he escaped—on the Saturday fortnight afterwards I saw him in Rupert Court, Russell Square, and said "Is your name Mitchell?"—he said "No"—I said "You are the man," and took him in custody—I afterwards went to his lodging in Anerley Street, Battersea Park, with Inspector Angier.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I was told that some coin had been passed at Messrs. Buck's in Tottenham Court Road—I went there, but did not find that any coin had been passed there—a woman joined you as I. walked up to you—I said nothing to her—I saw her outside the station door, but not in the station—I went to Parker Street, Westminster, between the 10th and the 29th, to keep observation, because I received information that you were likely to go there—I saw the landlord there—I inquired about a woman who, I understand, was living on the top floor—I had no charge to make against her; my object was to reapprehend you if you should be in her company—I kept observation on her and traced her to Oxford Street, though I had nothing to allege against her—on the night of your reapprehension I found two women in your company, one of whom was, I believe, the woman who was with you on the 10th—I had seen her at 5, Anerley Street on the 11th—I was present when a bad florin was found, in a cupboard of that house where food and crockery are kept—a woman.

with a child in her arms was there and another woman—they both saw it found, I believe—I asked them if they lived there, and told them we had come to search the place—we searched both rooms thoroughly, and after we found the florin we asked them how it came there, and they both said that you had put it there—the one with a child in her arms said that she was living with you—she did not say that she was your wife.

Re-examined. It was not the woman with the child who followed us to the station—the same woman was with him when I arrested him on the 29th, and she was also at Anerley Street; we watched her there from the station—the place was searched that night, and both the women were then—I am positive he is the man whom I apprehended on the 10th, and who escaped.

SARAH PACK . I am the wife of John Pace, of 5A, Anerley Street, Battersea Park—the prisoner occupied our two top rooms, back and front, with a woman who passed as his wife—they gave their names Mr. and Mrs. Gifford—when the officers came on 10th November I pointed out those two rooms to them—the woman who passed as his wife came in while the officers were there—a second woman lived in one of the rooms; she had a child, and passed as Mrs. Gilford's sister; she was introduced to me as such—the prisoner did not come back to live there after the officers searched—he. had lived there up to that day—I did not know he was going to leave—I do not know what became of him—the two women left the next evening—the rent was paid on the Monday night.

HENRY ANGIER (Police Inspector E). On the night of 10th November I saw the prisoner at the station—I went on the same night to 5A, Anerley Street, Battersea Park, where Mrs. Pace pointed out two rooms to me, and in a cupboard in the front room I found this bad florin wrapped in calico, and in the back room some documents in the name of George Mitchell—two women were there—I went back to the station and told the prisoner I hid been to 5A, Anerley Road and had found a florin in the cupboard—I said, "I do not want you to answer unless you like, but are those the rooms you occupy?"—he said, "It is all right; you know all about it"—I noticed a woman in the room who had been at the station—I did not see the prisoner for three weeks after he escaped, but I am sure he is the man—there was a bed in the front room where the cupboard was, but it was a living-room; there were cups and saucers on the table—the back room was a bedroom.

Cross-examined. I spoke to the woman at the station on 10th November—I don't think she made any remark about the florin till we found it—I saw her and spoke to her several times during the three weeks that elapsed—I watched her many days, thinking you might be with her, and I should get a chance of apprehending you—I spoke to her once in the Seven Dials, and many other times—I think I saw her once at the end of Tottenham Court Road—I object to tell you the nature of the conversation between us—I did not cause her to be searched on the night she came to the station.

WILLIAM WEBSTER I am inspector of coin to H.M. Mint—these six florins are bad, and four of them are from one mould—this one with the calico round it is bad, and from the same mould as the other four.

Witnesses for the Defence.

GEORGE URBEN (Police Inspector). I know your wife, and have seen her marriage certificate—you were both tried together here—I do not know the date, but you put in the marriage certificate, and that is why she

was acquitted—I saw the certificate in this Court—I heard of you selling Sarsaparilla in the street two or three months ago, but I never saw you—I your wife never came to Scotland Yard requesting my assistance to find out I where you were living—after her discharge at this Court she appeared as a I witness against a man for uttering base coin—she did not to my knowledge go and obtain some base coin from the man who was convicted here—I never saw any money pass—the man was apprehended in a public-house in I Oxford Street.

Cross-examined. On 18th August, 1873, the prisoner and a woman I were tried here; he was convicted and sentenced to penal servitude—he produced his marriage certificate, and she was acquitted on the ground that I she was his wife. (MR. POLAND here put in one of the documents found in the prisoner's room, which was a ticket of leave upon a conviction of feloniously uttering counterfeit coin.)

The Prisoner in his defence stated that his wife, who had been kept by I another man while he was in penal servitude, had placed the had florin in the I cupboard, and then given information to the police, asking him to meet her I in the street, and that when he did so she had an officer ready to apprehend him, and that this was done to get rid of him in order that she might return I to her paramour.

CHARLES HILL (Re-examined). I arrested the prisoner on information I which I received from the woman.


15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-87
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

87. THOMAS SMITH (42) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. LLOYD and COOKE Prosecuted.

MARGARET ASHLEY . I am barmaid at the Yorkshire Grey, Gray's Inn Lane—on 27th October, about 2.30, I served the prisoner with half a pint of beer—he tendered a florin—I said it was bad—he said "It is not; I have just sold my overcoat, and this is the two-shilling piece I got for it—I handed it to another young woman in the bar.

MARY ANN FOGO . I was barmaid at the Yorkshire Grey—on 27th I October I saw the prisoner in the bar—Ashley called my attention to him, and said that the florin was bad—I looked at it and said "It is bad"—he said "It is not bad"—I said "It is"—that was repeated three times—he said "I have just sold a coat in Leather Lane and received it"—I gave the I florin to Mr. Weatherley.

I ANDREW WEATHERLEY. I keep the Yorkshire Grey—on 27th October I received the bad florin from Fogo—I showed it to my partner, who bit it, and sent for a policeman—I saw the prisoner outside, and said that I should give him in charge—he said "I have sold my overcoat in Leather Lane for 2s., and this is the two-shilling piece"—this is the coin; the inspector marked it, and here is my partner's toothmark.

ALFRED HAWKINS (Policeman 96 E). I was called, and while I was speaking to Mr. Weatherley the prisoner came up and said "It's all right, governor, I have just sold my coat in Petticoat Lane"—no charge had then been made against him that I am aware of—I said "I shall take you for uttering this two-shilling piece said "All right, governor, you are not going to take hold of me, I am quite innocent"—I took him to the station—he was brought up at Bow Street on 28th October, and gave his name James White—he was remanded, and on 3rd November, there being no

other charge against him, he was discharged—I recognise him as the prisoner who said that his name was James White.

THOMAS WHEELER . I am barman at the Highlander, 89, Bear Street—on 27th November the prisoner came in and said "Governor, I'm drunk"—I said "Well, if you are drunk you had better go home"—he said "Oh, give me something to sober me, a bottle of soda or lemon"—I drew him a small bottle of soda water, and he placed on the counter a bad half-crown—I called the landlord's attention to it, and placed it on a shelf, where I could see it, jumped over the counter, and sent for a policeman—I then said "This is a bad half-crown you have given me, and I think you know it, and I shall send for a policeman"—he said "I am a poor innocent lad, who would not do harm to any one; I did not know it was bad"—he said to the landlord "Oh, do be merciful and let me go"—the landlord handed the half-crown to the constable in my presence—the prisoner was sober—he walked well to the station, and was evidently shamming.

EDWARD WALKLING (Policeman C 104). I took the prisoner and asked him where he got the coin—he said "I received it in change for a sovereign this morning; I don't know where"—he asked the landlord to break it up and not charge him, as he was a poor innocent fellow—I found a good florin in his hand—he was sober.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These coins are both bad.

Prisoner's Defence. I do not know anything about the first coin. I got the second in change for a sovereign.

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-88
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

88. WILLIAM CORVAN (56) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS, LLOYD and COOKE Prosecuted; MR. FRITH Defended.

CAROLINE MANNING . I keep a fancy goods shop at 18, Caledonian Road, Islington—on 14th November, about 6 p.m., the prisoner came in and chose a shilling box of dominoes, which he said were for a publican in the neighbourhood—he gave me a half-sovereign—I gave him 9s. change, and"put the coin between my teeth; it bent, and he ran out with the change and the dominoes—I ran out after him, and a policeman caught him—I had never lost sight of him—he was brought back, and the policeman asked him what he had got in his mouth—he said "Nothing"—the policeman said "You have"—another policeman said "If you don't give it to me I will take it from you"—the prisoner then took a half-sovereign from his mouth, and was going to hand it to me—I said "It is not mine, give it to the policeman"—he did so, and I gave the policeman the other half-sovereign—this is it—I know it by the way I bent it.

Cross-examined. I had never seen him before—I took the half-sovereign upstairs, but did not put it into my cash-box; I have not got one——I kept it in my hand—there were a good many cabs and omnibuses in the street.

JAMES CLARK (Policeman Y 456). The last witness pointed out the prisoner to me in Pentonville Road running very fast; I never lost sight of him—he ran towards some cabs; a cabdriver moved his cab, and I caught him on the other side of it, about a quarter of a mile from where I first saw him, but he escaped again, and I caught him about 15 yards off—I saw him take something from his pocket, and put it in his mouth—I took hold of both his hands, and said "Give me that which is in your mouth," but he said nothing—another officer came up, and we took him to Mrs.

Manning's—I asked him three times what he had in his mouth—he said "Nothing"—Merton put his hand on his breast, and said "Give me what you have in your mouth"—he said "I won't give it to you; I will give it to the lady," and handed a coin to her—she gave it to me; it was a good half-sovereign—I examined his cap at the station, and found two curls pinned in it to hang down.

Cross-examined. He did not say that he would not give the coin to the policeman lost they should change it—I was not disappointed to find that it was a good one.

CHARLES MERTON (Policeman Y 456). I saw a crowd round Mrs. Manning's shop, went in, and found the prisoner in custody—I said "Have you got anything in your mouth?"—he said "No"—I said "I believe you have, for I can hear something rattle; you had better give it to me," and put my hand up to his throat—he said "No, I shall not give it to you; I will give it to this lady," turning to the prosecutrix, and pulling something from his mouth which he handed to her, and she handed "it to Clark—I did not examine it.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This bent half-sovereign is bad.

Cross-examined. It is a better imitation than usual, but very light.

GUILTY .— Fifteen Months' Imprisonment.

OLD COURT.—Tuesday, Dec. 16th, 1879.

Before Mr. Recorder.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-89
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

89. FREDERICK WILLIAMS (16) PLEADED GUILTY to feloniously forging and uttering a receipt for moneys with intent to defraud.

Five Days' Imprisonment.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-90
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

90. JAMES POWER (41) , Unlawfully obtaining five washing machines and three wringing machines of Joseph Wilding by false pretences, and a cask of butter from Richard Colley.


THOMAS FORTY . I am manager to Joseph Wilding, of Bolton, Lancashire, a washing machine manufacturer—he exhibited his machines at the Kilburn Agricultural Show, and distributed a number of prospectuses—on 20th August I received this letter (A) on a printed form from James Power requesting prices—I wrote a reply, sending a circular and price list, and on 25th I received this letter (B). (It was dated from 45, King Square. This ordered certain washing and wringing machines, and referring to Lawrence and Taylor, 76, Aldersgate Street). In consequence of that letter I sent five washing machines and three wringing machines to 45, King Square, believing it to be a genuine transaction—I received this letter (C) acknowledging their receipt—I then received this letter (D), dated 15th September, ordering more goods—I replied to that by applying for payment for the goods previously sent—I did not receive the money or any reply; we wrote more than once—the next time I said I would come up and see him—on 13th October I came to London, and went with Mr. Hutchinson to 45, King Square—I there saw a Mrs. Allen—I looked over the premises rented by the prisoner; it was a small shed at the end of a back yard; it was locked up—by standing on a stool I could see through a window, and I saw two

of my washing machines on a bench there—I had invoiced those machines at 35s., less 20 off—that would he 26s. 3d. net—I went to the premises again several times, hut never saw the prisoner till he was in custody—I made a communication to Mr. Hutchinson, and wrote this letter to the prisoner. (E. Read: "217, City Road. Eagle Dining Rooms. Sir,—Please inform me if you can supply me with two Wilding's Patent Swift Washers; a friend of Mrs. Allen's has referred me to you. Yours respectfully, J. Hutchinson.") I afterwards saw the two washing machines that I had seen in the shed in the possession of Mr. Hutchinson—I have not been able to recover the others—I sent them in the belief I was dealing with a man of business in the ordinary way.

Cross-examined. I have not been to the shed since—there was nothing in it—there was a little room on the left, hardly worth mentioning; very much smaller than the other; I could see into it—I called three or four times during five or six days; any time I was passing, sometimes in the day time and sometimes in the evening.

JOSEPH HUTCHINSON . I am a dining-room keeper at 217, City Road—I know Mr. Forty—at the end of October I accompanied him to 45, King Square—I saw the shed, looked through the window, and saw two washing machines; there was nothing else but the bare place—afterwards, at the request of Mr. Forty, I forwarded the letter () tendering for the washing machines—in consequence of something Mrs. Allen's son told me two or three days afterwards I sent a letter addressed to James Power, 45, King Square, and the prisoner and another man came to my house—the prisoner said "Are you the governor or Mr. Hutchinson?"—I said "Yes"—he said "Do you want to buy some washing machines?"—I said "Yes, if I get them at a reasonable price"—I asked what he wanted for them—he said "30s. each"—I said I should not give 30s.; I understood he had got them to sell very cheap—he and his friend consulted together, and said they would take 25s.—I said I would give them 25s.—I told them to bring the machines next morning—two of the washing machines were afterwards brought to my house—Mr. Forty identified them—my son handed me the invoice—the prisoner called for payment, and he was handed over to a policeman.

Cross-examined. Mr. Forty did not tell me to oner 25s.; he told me the price of them—I told the prisoner I wanted one for myself and one for my brother-in-law; that was not true.

GEORGE HUTCHINSON . I am a son of the last witness—on Thursday, 6th November, the prisoner brought the two washing-machines, and said he had. brought the washing machines that were ordered—he gave me this invoice—I told him my father was out—he said he would call again—when he came next morning the detective was waiting for him.

RICHARD COLLEY . I am a farmer, and live near Welshpool, Montgomeryhire—I was an exhibitor of butter and cheese at the Kilburn Show this year—I had printed catalogues and price lists—about 12th August I received this letter (G) on a printed bill-head form: "James Power, Provision Merchant and Agent, 45, King Square. If you have any butter for sale of the same or similar quality of that exhibited at Kilburn I should like to receive full particulars"—I answered that letter, and asked for references, and on 23rd September I received this letter on the same bill-head. (This ordered some butter to be forwarded, and referred to Lawrence and Taylor,

76,Aldersgate Street, and C. R. Decker and Co., Wilson Street, Finsbury.) I received this post-card dated 2nd October, and on the 3rd I sent the butter. (The post-card stated that the writer would see the witness on the 13th at the Agricultural Hall) There was another exhibition at the Agricultural Hall on the 13th—I received this letter of October 3rd, but dated November 3rd. (This requested 4 cwt. of butter to be forwarded to Mr. T. W. Corner, 1, Vauxhall Street, Hoxton, charging Id. extra, and stating, "I am open for poultry and eggs later on.") I replied to that letter, and then received this. (Read: "6th October, 1879. Dear Sir,—I have been very ill, or should have sent back tubs and money. I will see to it now, though. I don't know what you mean by writing. I think you must have had a letter from some one else. I did not ask about poultry. I have not given your address to any one else. I don't remember mentioning anything about a customer who would give 1d. a pound more for butter. If any one has written to you, you may be sure they wrote to you because I won't give them more credit You say you can't send less than 3 tons of poultry. You must be joking; I could never pay for such a quantity.") I had offered to sell him tons of poultry—I received this letter of 10th October, acknowledging the receipt of the butter—I came up to London and went to the Agricultural Hall—the prisoner passed by me there; he looked at me and just spoke—I was talking to a gentleman; he never stopped—I saw no more of him till he was in custody—I went to 45, King Square, but could not find him—I went back to Wales, and on 16th October I received this letter. (This explained that he was prevented returning to the Agricultural flail, and stated that he was not quite ready to remit.) I applied for payment once or twice afterwards—I got replies stating that he intended sending the empty tubs and the money, but he never did—seeing these printed bill-heads, I believed it to be a genuine concern of a man in trade.

Cross-examined. In one of his letters he states, "As a rule I take a month's credit"—I sent the butter, after seeing that it was to be paid for on 13th October, and then he was to have another lot—I did not intend sending them till I was paid for my butter.

ROBERT BOULTBY (Police Sergeant G). On the morning of 7th November I went to Mr. Hutchinson's house, and waited there till 4 o'clock, when the prisoner came—he said to Mr. Hutchinson that he had come for the money for the machines—Mr. Hutchinson showed him into a room where I was—I asked him if his name was James Power—he said "Yes"—I said, "I belong to the police, and I shall take you into custody for receiving a quantity of washing and wringing machines from Mr. Wilding, of Bolton, by fraud"—he said, "I did not receive them by fraud; I was coming to get a little money to send down"—I asked him his private address—he said, "I decline to give it; I shall give no address but 45, King Square"—I took him to the station—the inspector read the warrant to him—he made no reply—I searched him and found a quantity of letters, among them the one marked "E" Mr. Hutchinson's letter to him—I then went to 45, King Square—I had watched that place for some time—I had seen the prisoner there frequently of a morning at the time the letters came; he remained a few minutes and then left—on one occasion I saw a railway van draw up, and a largo hamper was left, which he received—he was waiting at the door when it came—he took it inside and afterwards went away, and I went and looked in at the window of one of the sheds, and saw a quantity of large

bams and about six washing and wringing machines placed on a bench—after he was in custody I searched both the sheds; they are little places about a yard and a half wide and about 3 yards long—they contained a quantity of old, empty boxes, invoices, and a great number of envelopes addressed to Mr. Power, King Square, and bundles of letter-paper with the beading produced—I have been to Aldersgate Street and made inquiries about Lawrence and Taylor; they had gone away.

Cross-examined. I saw the name on the door, but the place was empty.

WILLIAM PEEL (Police Inspector G). I have been to 32, Wilson Street, Finsbury—I could not find such a firm as Decker and Co.—I should like to find them.

GUILTY .— Two Years' Imprisonment.

NEW COURT.—Tuesday, December 16th, 1879.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-91
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

91. WILLIAM JACKSON (20) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. LLOYD and COOKE Prosecuted.

THOMAS JAMES DE GRASS . I am a tobacconist, of 23, Emmett Street, Poplar—on 19th November, a little before 9 p.m., I served the prisoner with half an ounce of shag—he gave me a half-crown, I gave him 2s. 4d. change, and immediately he left I put it to my teeth and found it was bad—this is it; I identify it by the mark where I bit it—I gave it up at the station next morning.

HARRIET ELIZABETH PEAT . My father keeps the Railway Tavern, Poplar—on 19th November, about 9 p.m., I served the prisoner with half an ounce of tobacco—he put down a half-crown, I gave him 2s. 4d. change—it felt light and I showed it to my father, who marked it with his teeth and said that it was bad—I went back to the bar and the prisoner had gone—he was afterwards brought back and said "My mate sent me in with it, I did not know it was a bad one."

GEORGE WILLIAM PEAT . My daughter brought me this bad half-crown—I know it by the marks where it was put in the tester—I got a description of the prisoner and went out and pointed him out to a constable—a man who was with him ran away—I took him back and my daughter said "That is the man who gave me the half-crown"—he said "I passed the half-crown here,"

JOHN CLARK (Policeman K 537). Mr. Peat pointed out the prisoner to me with another man, who ran away when he saw me take hold of the prisoner—they were walking very quietly—I said to the prisoner "I shall take you in custody for passing a bad half-crown at the Hallway Tavern"—he said "You have made a mistake this time"—I took him back, and the landlord's daughter said "This is the man that passed me the half-crown"—he said "Yes, I did; this is the house I came into; I was sent in by another man with the half-crown, I did not know it was a bad one"—I said "Was that the man who was with you that sent you in?"—he made no reply—I found on him 1 3/4 d.—I received this half-crown from Mr. Peat, and marked it "537 K," there is also a mark on the face—the prisoner was placed with several others at the station and Mr. De Gras identified him.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These half-crowns are bad and from the same mould—they are very well cast but badly coloured.

Prisoner's Defence. I was sent in by a friend for some tobacco, and he said he would give me a few halfpence. I was very hard up; I had no idea they were bad.

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-92
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown

Related Material

92. JOHN MANNING (30) and HENRY UPTON (46) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. LLOYD and COOKE Prosecuted.

LOVEDAY WILMER . My husband keeps the Cooper's Arms, Saffron Hill—on 22nd November, about 7.40, the prisoners came in, and Manning called for a half-quartern of rum, and gave me a florin—I gave him 1s. 9 1/2 d. change and laid it on a table in the back parlour where there was no other money—Upton then said "Give me change for that," handing me a florin; it felt very greasy, I put it to my teeth and found it was bad, it was gritty—I said "I can't give you change for that, it is not good"—Manning was by his side and could hear perfectly well—Upton said "That is good enough," picked it up and put it in his pocket—I went into the parlour and fetched the first florin, that was bad, and when I went back he was gone—somebody stopped Manning, and he said "I met the other man outside and he asked me to come and have something to drink, he gave me the two shillings to pay for it"—he was given in custody with the florin—the policeman marked it in my presence—this is it, and here are my teeth marks on it.

Cross-examined by Upton. You did not put the florin to your teeth when I brought it back, you put it in your side pocket.

THOMAS ARDILL (Police Sergeant G 11). I was called to the Cooper's Arms, and Manning was given into my custody—he said "I met a man outside who has now gone who asked me to come in and have something to drink with him, but I do not know what was put down"—on the way to the station he said "I am a hard-working man, it is a bad job for me; a man named Harry Upton gave me a two shilling piece to call for something to drink; I did not know at the time that it was bad"—I found on him two good shillings and 1 1/2 d.—he said "I met a man outside who asked me to come in and have something to drink with him, but I did not know what was put down"—he put the money down.

Cross-examined by Manning. I took your direction down and went there and found it correct—I found nothing against you—after that I went where you had been living for two years, but they said that you worked very little.

EMMA REECE . I am barmaid at Mr. Foucar's, the Queen's Arms, Caledonian Road—on 31st October, between 6 and 7 p.m., I served Upton with a pint of ale—he gave me a florin, I put it to my teeth, it bent, and I said "This is a bad one"—he said "Give it to me back again, I do not know where I got it from, I had it given to me"—I did not do so, I gave it to Mr. Foucar, saying "This is bad"—he said "Where did you get it from?"—the prisoner said "I had it given to me"—he said "Have you any more of these about you?"—he said "No, I did not know it was a bad one"—he was given in charge with the florin—this is it, I bent it and marked it.

Cross-examined by Upton. You did not tell me you got it by sparring.

CLEMENT FOUCAR . I keep the Queen's Arms—on 31st October Reece

drew my attention to a bad florin, and I said to Upton "That florin is a bad one, and I shall give you in charge"—he said "I did not know it was bad"—he said nothing about getting it in a sparring match—I gave him in custody with the florin.

THOMAS MOORE (Policeman Y 115). I was called to the Queen's Arms and took Upton into a back parlour and searched him, but only found 1d. on him—I said "Where did you get it from?"—he said "At a sparring match"—Mr. Foucar was not present then—Upton was taken before a Magistrate the next day and discharged—I gave the florin in at the station and it was sent to the chief office—we afterwards applied for it and got it—I know it because I marked it "M."

THOMAS GILL (Policeman G 302). On 2nd December I saw Upton in White Cross Street—I said "Upton, I shall take you in custody"—he said "What for?"—I said "For uttering counterfeit coin at the Cooper's Anns, Saffron Hill"—he said "I know nothing at all about it"—I took him to the station and found 2d. on him.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These coins are both bad.

The Prisoners' Statements before the Magistrate. Manning says: "I know nothing about it. I did not know it was a bad one. Upton says: "I know nothing at all about it"

Manning's Defence. I met Upton, who asked me to have a drop of rum. We went into the public-house, and he said "Call for half a quartern of rum," and he gave me a florin. I put it on the bar, and as soon as the mistress gave me the change I gave it to him. The policeman found 2s. 1 1/2 d. on me, which could not be the change of the florin. I never attempted to move from the spot, but tried to prove my innocence.

Upton's Defence. I earned 2l. by gambling, and I had 2l. 3s. in my pocket I was druuk, met this man, whom I knew, and asked him to have a drop of something, but I did not give him 2s. I paid myself. That florin was not bad. I tried to bend it, but could not. I did not throw it away, I spent it The one she took was bad, no doubt, but whether it was the. same or not I don't know. My benefit was to have come off last Tuesday, but I was locked up.

MRS. WILMER (Re-examined). Upton appeared perfectly sober.


UPTON— GUILTY .— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

He had been seventeen times convicted of assaults on the police, and drunkenness.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-93
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

93. WILLIAM MOORE (27) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. LLOYD and COOKE Prosecuted.

HANNAH ISAACS . I work at a fish shop, 1, Clare Street, Clare Market—on 19th July, between 9 and 10 p.m., I served the prisoner with a twopenny haddock—he gave me a florin—I put it in the tryer, found it was bad, and gave it to my mother, who came out and asked the prisoner where, he got it—he said "My wife gave it to me; I will go and fetch her," and walked away without the change—my father had given him the florin—Tyler went after him and fetched him back, and my father called Inspector Wood, who took him inside the parlour and searched him—I marked the coin; this is it.

CHARLES TAYLOR . I am assistant to Mr. Isaacs—on 19th July I came in and saw the prisoner leaving the shop—I ran after him and stopped him

about 20 doors off, and said "Young man, you have got to come back along with me"—he said "All right, let me go and fetch my wife"—he threw something away on the pavement which sounded like money, and I searched down the grating, but could not find it—I took him back to the shop, and Inspector Wood took him in custody.

HANNAH ISAACS . On 19th July my daughter called my attention to a bad florin—I said to the prisoner "Where did you get this from?"—he said "My wife gave it to me"—I said "We have taken a good bit of bad money this week, and I have been making inquiry who has been passing it, and shall detain you till a policeman comes"—he said "I will go and fetch a policeman if you like"—I said "No, I will send for one," and he started off—I was there when he was brought back—I gave the bad florin to Inspector Wood—when I accused him he said "I will go and fetch my wife."

HENRY WOOD . I am Chief Inspector at Bow Street—about 9.30 p.m, on 19th July I was passing down Clare Street and was called into Mr. Isaacs's shop—he handed me this florin, and gave the prisoner into my custody for passing it to his daughter—I searched him and found 1d. on him—I said "You will have to go to the station with me for uttering this bad twoshilling piece"—he said "If it is bad my wife gave it to me"—I said "Where do you live?"—he said "In Clerkenwell"—I took him to the station, and he was charged, remanded, and ultimately discharged.

CHARLES MANNERING . I am barman at the Wellington, 351, Strand—on 2nd December, about 11 p.m., I served the prisoner with a pint of beer—his friend said "I will pay for it"—the prisoner said "No, I have the money, I will pay for it," and put a florin on the counter—I felt it and found it was bad—I then put it in the tester and called the manager's attention to it, who said to the prisoner "Where did you get it?"—he said nothing, and was given in custody with the coin—this is it.

ARTHUR NORRIS (Policeman E 269). I was called to the Wellington, and the manager gave the prisoner into my custody with this florin (produced)—he said nothing, but on the way to the station he said "God blind me, you have caught me at last"—I found on him five good shillings, two sixpences, and 2s. 2d. in copper—he refused his name and address.

WILLIAM WEBSTER , These two florins are bad.

Prisoner's Defence. My wife gave me the first florin and I received the second from a gentleman in a cab, to whom I sold a newspaper—I did not know it was bad.

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-94
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

94. WILLIAM WILSON (47) and JAMES CANNON (21) , Unlawfully attempting to commit b——.


GUILTY .— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment each.

FOURTH COURT.—Tuesday, December 16th, 1879.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-95
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

95. ELIZA BAKER (20) PLEADED GUILTY to feloniously marrying John Swinton during the life of James Baker her husband.— One Day's Imprisonment.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-96
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

96. JAMES COOPER (30) , Feloniously forging and uttering an order for the payment of 210l., with intent to defraud.

MR. MEAD Prosecuted; and MR. THORNE COLE Defended.

THOMAS WOODLEY . I am a horse-keeper at the Prince of Wales stables, Bishop's Road, by the Great Western Hotel—this paper (produced) was brought to me by somebody I cannot identify and I gave it to the foreman. (Read: "19th November Wednesday evening.—Please send brougham to Great Western Hotel to-morrow morning at 9.30 o'clock; shall require same about four hours. For B. Mount.")

JAMES CATTERMOLE . I am a coachman in the service of Mr. Burton—on the 20th November at 9.30 o'clock I drove a brougham to the Great Western Hotel, and after some time a person came out and said "Are you the coachman come to meet a gentleman of the name of Mount?"—I said "Yes, I am"—he said "You will not be required for an hour; not till 10.30"—I said "Very good"—he gave me this note, which I kept (Read: "Shall not want the brougham till 10.30, etc") I drove slowly about the neighbourhood—a gentleman then said to me "Coachman, have you come from Mr. Burton?"—I said "Yes"—he said "I don't know about stopping"—I said "There has been a man there who told me not to come for am hour"—I drove about after that, and then the gentleman came to me at the corner of Eastbourne Terrace and said I had better wait a little while, and I turned round and waited—the gentleman afterwards got into the brougham with a little polished leather bag, and I drove to 12, Stanhope Terrace, Bayswater, House Agent's—the gentleman went in and came out again and gave me this bag, saying "I am engaged for about an hour; do you know Scott's Bank?"—I said "Yes"—he said "Will you take this for me and get it changed for me," and he doubled it up and put it into the little portmanteau bog—"and come back as quickly as you can?—I drove to the bank—they refused to pay it, and wrote on it" Signature differs"—Mr. Flook, the cashier, got into the brougham and went back to see Mr. Smith, and then drove back to the bank—on the 25th November I was taken to the police-station, where I saw a number of persons, and identified the prisoner as the man who spoke to me at the Great Western Hotel and gave me the note.

Cross-examined. The person who gave me the cheque was a very gentlemanly man in appearance—it was more like a porter who brought me the message—I remember your asking me at the police-court whether the person who brought me the cheque appeared to be a gentleman, and I said "Yes"—he was unlike the prisoner—I said at the police-court "I believe the prisoner is the man who gave me the note; I am almost certain it is the prisoner," and I say so now.

THOMAS WOODLEY (Re-examined). I went to the police-statien to identify the man who brought the order for the brougham, but I could not swear to anybody—I saw a number of persons there, and I picked out a man who I said most resembled the man who brought the order to the stables; but he was a stranger brought in from the street—it may have been him or somebody else.

WALTER FLOOR . I am cashier at Sir Samuel Scott's Bank, No I Cavendish Square—Mr. Frederick Smith is a customer having an account there—Cattermole brought this cheque to me—I had my suspicions as te its

not being Mr. Smith's signature, and compared it and found it was not—I got into the brougham and drove to Mr. Smith's to confirm my suspicions.

WILLIAM LEITH . I am a clerk at Sir Samuel Scott's Bank—a person, who I do not identify brought this paper to the bank—I gave him a cheque-book of 120 cheques, of which this cheque is the first.

Cross-examined. It was on Wednesday, 19th November—it was a lad to the best of my recollection.

FREDERICK SMITH . I keep the Stafford Hotel, Harrow Road, Paddington—this cheque is not drawn or signed by me, or with my authority, nor is this printed bill-head mine—I have an engraved plate—it properly describes my premises—I did not draw two cheques dated 20th November, one for 410l. and the other for 270l., nor were any such cheques drawn by my authority.

Cross-examined. Some one must have got that bill-head printed apart from my knowledge altogether—I said at the police-court "I do not know the prisoner; I am not sure whether I have ever seen him before."

SAMUEL SAVILLE . I live at 7, Metley Street, Paddington—I took the prisoner up in a cab about the 24th November, I think about I o'clock, and drove him about till 3 o'clock—he was in liquor—he had a black bag with him—I put him down in the Harrow Road—he fell down—I saw the bag open, and I saw inside it another little bag and some papers.

Cross-examined. We only went to one public-house, a beershop, and stopped there about a quarter of an hour—he had had a drop when I saw him at 1 o'clock, and when I left him at 3 o'clock he was very drunk—he told me to pull up—he was taken into custody about the same place that I put him down.

JAMES PINCOMBE (Policeman X R 11). I saw the prisoner drunk in Frankfort Terrace, Harrow Road, on the afternoon of the 20th November—a policeman was holding him up, and said the black bag belonged to the prisoner—I took him to the station, where I found in the bag three cheques amongst other things; the first on Sir Samuel Scott's Bank for 410l., purporting to be signed by Frederick Smith; the second on the same Dank, and signed the same, for 270l.; and the third on the Royal Bank of Ireland for 270l., purporting to be signed by James Mudie, and other articles which are immaterial—I took the prisoner to the Marylebone Police-court the next day, and he was fined 5s.—at the police-court I said to him "It is very lucky for you that you were locked up, or these cheques might have been in the possession of another, and presented at the bank and cashed"—he said no, it was all right, as he could have stopped the cheques at the bank—he said one. was for 270l.—I don't remember that he said what the others were for—the bag was handed to him by the inspector—on the 25th November I saw the prisoner in High Street, Notting Hill, with another man—he got in front of the other man, who was taller than himself and bigger, and so continued till he got to Ladbroke Terrace, and then they separated, and finding he was followed he ran into Ladbroke Road, and I ran after him and told him I should take him into custody for forging a cheque on Sir Samuel Soott's Bank—he said "I don't know what you mean"—I repeated the charge and took him to the police-station—when in the cab I saw him trying to destroy this counterfeit bank-note (produced).

Cross-examined. It was about 3.30 p.m. when I took the prisoner into custody—there were some people about—he was very drunk, covered with

mud, and hod been apparently falling about in the road—it was on the following Tuesday, the 25th, that I took him into custody again and charged him with this offence—I took him in the same division, but not the same sub-division.

WILLIAM HIGGINS , I was in charge of the police-station when the prisoner was brought there on a charge of drunkenness—the constable bringing him in took a black leather bug from him containing writing materials damaged by ink, a bottle of ink, a small box of pens, and the three cheques, and a black bag, locked—I said "How do you account for this?"—he said "I have been dealing"—I said "What in?"—he said "I ama horse-dealer."

JAMES REILLY (Police Inspector X). I was on duty at the Harrow Road Police-station on the 21st November, and gave the prisoner his black bag about 6 o'clock—when I took it to the cell I said "Is this your beg?"—he said "Yes"—I said "How many cheques have you got?"—he said "Three"—I said "What are the amounts?"—he said "One for 410l., and two for 270l. each"—I then handed him the three cheques pinned together, and he signed the property book and took them.

GEORGE KING (Police Inspector D) I saw Cattermole identify the prisoner among six others—he picked out some other man and said that was like him.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I don't know anything about the black bag, how it came into my possession. I was very drunk—I had been drinking with a gentleman; I don't know whether he gave it to me, or how I came in possession of it The next morning after I left this Court I met the gentleman. He said 'That is my bag,' and I gave it up to him with the contents in it. He told me he did not know how I came possessed of the bag. He gave me 1l. for taking care of it for him. He said he was very sorry I had been locked up for drinking with him. He is about the same sort of man as myself."

WILLIAM HIGGINS (Re-examined). I made the entries in the book of the contents of the bag—I was present when it was brought in, at about a quarter to 4—it was then examined by me and locked up in a cupboard and produced before the Magistrate the next morning—my conversation with the prisoner was when he was drunk.


15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-97
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

97. ELLEN WIGG (26) and IDA WILLIAMS (21) , Unlawfully endeavouring to conceal the birth of a certain female child, of which Ellen Williams had been delivered.

MR. POYNTER Prosecuted.

GUILTY .— One Week's Imprisonment.

OLD COURT.—Wednesday, December 17th, 1879.

Before Baron Pollock.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-98
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

98. EDWARD FROGGATT (37) , Unlawfully converting to his own use and benefit certain moneys of which he was trustee.


BARNARD THOMAS . I am a solicitor and one of the assistants in the Solicitor's Department of the Treasury—on 25th October I served on the prisoner in Newgate a notice of which this is a copy, to produce a trust deed

dated 29th May, 1871, between Henry James Fitzroy of the first part, Kate. Walsh Smith of the second part, and Edward Froggatt and Alfred Meare of the third part—that deed was subsequently produced by the defendant's solicitor in my presence at the inquiry at Guildhall Police-court; this is it (produced)—I produce a certificate of the registration of the death of Alfred Hears, at Worcester, on 23rd February, 1877, also an office copy of the order of the High Court of Justice, sanctioning this prosecution, dated Wednesday, 24th September, 1879, and a fiat of the Attorney-General, signed by him, dated 29th September, 1879.

KATE WALSH FITZROY . I am the wife of Henry James Fitzroy—I was married to him at the parish church of St. Michael, at Worcester, on 29th May, 1878—at that time I was a widow and my name was Kate Walsh Smith—Henry James Fitzroy was the eldest son of Lord Charles Fitzroy—before my marriage I knew Mr. Froggatt as a solicitor practising in Argyll Street, Regent Street, and in preparing a deed of settlement he acted as solicitor for my husband; I had no separate solicitor acting for me—this is my signature to this deed, and this "Henry Fitzroy" is my husband's—the others are the signatures of Mr. Froggatt and Mr. Meare, the trustees—that deed was signed at Worcester on the morning of my marriage by those different parties—I had not known Mr. Mears before, he was quite a stranger to me and to my husband; Mr. Froggatt introduced him to me at Worcester; he lived there—Mr. Froggatt was present at my marriage, and after the ceremony he took possession of the deed—I lived with my husband till 9th May, 1875—up to that time the dividends were paid from time to time into my husband's account at Drummond's bank—in December, 1875, I received this letter from the defendant; it is his writing. (Read: "7th December, 1875. 6, Argyll Street, Regent Street Dear Mrs. Fitzroy,—I send you by book-post copy of your settlement. Mr. Webber called here yesterday and would not make the affidavit without he was paid a guinea. I went to him this morning; he has gone to Brighton, and will not be back till to-night. I will see him, pay him the guinea, and get his affidavit.") I also received this letter, dated 4th January, 1876; it is the defendant's writing. (This stated that he had sent her settlement to be copied and would send copy to-morrow, and that he would pay in to her credit at the Bank of England dividends amounting to 160l. 19s. 6d.) This letter of 5th July, 1876, is also in the defendant's writing. (This stated that he had paid in the dividends.) This is the copy of the deed, which I received with the letter of 7th December, 1875—after my husband left me in May, 1875, I opened an account in my own name, at the Western Branch of the Bank, of England—being a married woman, they would not take the account as my own, and it was headed in the name of Mr. Webber, a friend of mine, a wine merchant, and the dividends were duly paid in by the defendant to that account—after my husband left me I had obtained a protection order, to protect property which I was separately entitled to—from that time until 1877 I did not know that the trust had been interfered with by anybody; I thought I was receiving my dividends from the proper funds—at the latter part of 1877 it came to my knowledge that the defendant was being prosecuted; I then consulted another solicitor, Mr. Yorke—I subsequently saw Mr. Froggatt at a restaurant on Ludgate Hill—at that time he was on bail on the charge of the turf frauds—I met him at his request, that was in writing; I have not got the letter—I asked him what was he going to do

about my money—he said it would be all right, as he would not be convicted, I need not be at all alarmed; I was to see him next day after the trial would be finished—at that time I believed that my property was safe in the hands of trustees—during the proceedings it was brought to my knowledge that the whole of my trust property had been disposed of—I do not know what has become of it—I never sanctioned in any way the dealing with the property by the trustees.

Cross-examined. I don't think my husband is in England—he left me in 1875—I did not take' out a protection order to prevent him dealing with the moneys in question; it was for my furniture—I believe Mr. Fitzroy is related to the Duke of Grafton—the signature to this letter (produced) is in his handwriting—I have seen Mr. Farrer, the solicitor, once, but have not had any correspondence with him; Mr. Froggatt has—I had only a life interest in this estate—the marriage settlements were read the night before in my presence, but not to me—I did not know the contents; they were read over by Mr. Fitzroy in my presence, but he did not read it aloud, just read it over, glanced through it—I did not know what was in it—I believe the sum of 1,000l. was inserted for Mr. Froggatt's expenses—I did not hear a clause in the deed read out to that effect—I knew that Mr. Mears, the co-trustee, was connected with the police-court at Worcester as a clerk, I believe—Mr. Froggatt told me that Mr. Farrer had bought the reversion of this fund; Mr. Farrer did not tell me so—Mr. Webber is a wine merchant, of Savile Row—he heard that the reversion was bought; he did not tell me so—I have not seen my husband here to-day—he has corresponded with Messrs. Farrer, Ouvry, and Co. in reference to myself, but I have not—I do not know the signature to the letter produced—I do not know a person, of the name of Benjamin, nor was I aware that my husband was in very great difficulties until the first year of our marriage—it was then that Mr. Froggatt managed his monetary affairs—I did not know that some of the stock was sold out and not reinvested—I have read this letter (blue paper); it is in Mr. Fitzroy's handwriting—I did not know that Mr. Fitzroy authorised Mr. Froggatt to sell out—Mr. Yorke is my solicitor at present—I have not said that I wished to prosecute my husband for misappropriating these moneys—I do not know that my husband has attempted to upset our marriage on the ground that I have a husband living; I never heard it from Mr. Fitzroy or anybody—I saw my solicitor, Mr. Yorke, in August last about this case, and commenced a Chancery suit for the recovery of this trust money—I do not know that Mr. Yorke has done things without my sanction, nor do I know that he has applied to the Court of Chancery to distribute this trust money. (The statement of claim was here put in.) I don't remember the date exactly that the defendant came out of prison; it was after the writ was issued, and he was thereupon arrested—I told Mr. Yorke to take proceedings against him, and I left it entirely in his hands—I have never heard of such a thing as a "Ne-exeat"—I brought a Chancery suit, and obtained a decree—as far as I know, interrogatories were not administered to Mr. Froggatt—the dividends were paid to me in July and January—I believe the writ was issued after I found that the dividend was not paid in to my account in January, 1878—I do not know that Mr. Farrer bought the reversion in the year 1873—I never knew that the defendant was dealing with this trust fund under my husband's direction; I never heard of it—this letter (produced) is my husband's handwriting—I think he

appealed to his ancle to settle his pecuniary difficulties, not to Mr. Froggatt—Mr. Froggatt transacted his affairs, and I know nothing more about it—I believe Mr. Mears is dead—I only met Mr. Mears once or twice with Mr. Froggatt—I did not know him at all, only through Mr. Froggatt—my husband agreed to settle upon me the whole of the money he was entitled to; it was settled upon me, the whole of it—I have seen Lord Charles Fitzroy—I mean to say that I believe that the whole of the money my husband was entitled to was settled upon me—I never heard that there was 4,000l. standing in the name of Lord Charles Fitzroy, to which my husband was entitled; if it is a fact, I have been kept in the dark by Mr. Froggatt—the date of my marriage with Mr. Fitzroy was 29th May, 1871—I cannot at this moment remember exactly the date of my marriage with Mr. Smith, my first husband—I suppose it was in 1863; I really can't remember the date—Mr. Froggatt found out that he was dead; he was supposed to be drowned in the London, going out to America—I have not searched the names of the passengers who were drowned in the London—my husbands name was George Manley Smith—I had a letter sent me telling me that he was dead, written by some of his relations at Birmingham; I don't know the name; it was signed "Smith"—I don't remember what year it was that he was supposed to be drowned in the London—I was sued by a Madame Ox, of Piccadilly, a long time ago; I don't know the year exactly; I believe it was after my husband was supposed to have gone down in the London, but I really don't know, I don't remember—I think I recollect what the pleas were that were put on the record on that occasion—I did not plead that at the time she sued me I was a married woman; I swear I did not—I don't think I did—it was at the Westminster County Court, I think—I went into the witness-box and I was cross-examined about the goods that Madame Ox sold me—Mr. Roberts acted as solicitor for me, I believe—I don't remember swearing that I was a married woman; I don't think I did; I don't remember it—if I did, I had not heard that my husband was drowned at the time—I don't remember the date that the London went down; I think it was about 1866—I don't think the action by Madame Ox was in 1869; I don't remember the time exactly; I don't remember that it was three years after the London went down—I did not swear at the Westminster County Court that I had seen my husband three or four days before—I did not say anything about it—I don't remember swearing anything about it, and I don't think I did—I never swore that he was alive, nothing of the kind—I made another defence to the action, that it was for immoral purposes, that Madame Ox supplied the dresses, for the purposes of prostitution—I swear that I did not say I had seen my husband—Mr. Fitzroy was not trying to dissolve our marriage because I was married at the time he married me—he was not seeking to obtain evidence of the fact that my husband was alive and seen in the neighbourhood of Holborn in the year 1875; I am sure he did not, not to my knowledge—I say it is not the fact—I do not know that my husband was dealing with this trust fund through the instrumentality of Mr. Froggatt, because he did not believe he was lawfully married to me; I don't think he ever did; I am sure he never did—(looking at a letter) I read this a minute ago—I do not know Mr. Farrer's writing—I know that my husband was served with a debtor's summons in the Bankruptcy Court—I have not seen Mr. Farrer since my husband left me—I have not subpœnaed him, or asked him to come

here as a witness on my behalf—Mr. Webber only heard that Mr. Farrer had bought Mr. Fitzroy's reversion for 1,200l.—I know nothing about it—Mr. Webber did not tell me so, he only said he heard it was bought—I did. not know that 4,000l. out of the fund had been sold out, I never knew there was a penny sold out, I knew nothing about it—I do not now know that Mr. Farrer bought the reversion when 4,000l. had been sold out through the instrumentality of Mr. Froggatt; I knew nothing at all about the money, I don't know even now; I don't know anything about the money, where it went—I had a life interest in it—I don't know that Mr. Fitzroy promised to pay Mr. Froggatt very liberally for the trouble he had taken in managing his affairs; I don't remember that; he may have said it, but not to my knowledge—I heard that Mr. Froggatt was paid, I don't know how much, but Mr. Fitzroy always made me believe that he had paid hint all his expenses—(letter produced)—Mr. Fitzroy was not continually obtaining money from Mr. Froggatt; that letter refers to when Mr. Froggatt did not pay in Mr. Fitzroy's dividend, and he wrote to Mr. Farrer to say that they had not been paid in; that is what that letter refers to—the dividends were paid in to Mr. Fitzroy's bank at that time—I received from Mr. Yorke a notice of motion in the Chancery suit that I instituted against Mr. Froggatt, requesting that interrogatories might be put to him (Froggatt) for the purpose of discovering how and why he disposed of this fund—by the advice of Mr. Yorke I did not go on with the Chancery suit—Mr. Yorke told me that he bad not the money to repay me, he said I should have to prosecute him, that I could not get the money unless I resorted to criminal proceedings.

Re-examined. I have never received any of the money—I have never seen Mr. Fitzroy since he left me—he has not contributed to my support, nor do I know" where he is—I believe he is not in this country—in 1873 there were proceedings against him in Bankruptcy—Messrs. Farrer, Ouvry, and Farrer, are solicitors to the Duke of Grafton's and to Lord Fitzroy's family—I was led to believe by Mr. Webber that the reversion was purchased at the time of the bankruptcy proceedings—I have never heard of my first husband since the London went down—the action that was brought against me was by Madame Ox, a milliner—on that occasion I was represented by a solicitor and counsel—Mr. Roberts was my solicitor, and Mr. Besley my counsel—I left the conduct of the case entirely in the hands of my solicitor, and he put what answer he thought fit—I also resisted the claim on the score of its being very exorbitant—after I last saw Mr. Smith I was left entirely on my own resources up to the time I married Mr. Fitzroy—Mr. Froggatt did not act for me as my solicitor before my marriage—I acquainted Mr. Froggatt with everything concerning my former husband, and gave him the letters and papers—before my marriage to Mr. Fitzroy I gave directions to Mr. Froggatt to make certain inquiries—since November, when I first became acquainted with Mr. Yorke, I placed the matter entirely in his hands to manage for me.

JOHN BURGESS GUNNELL . I am a clerk in the service of the East Indian Railway Company—in May, 1871, there was standing in the name of Lord Augustus Charles Lennox Fitzroy, 3,920l. Consolidated Stock, at 5 per cent, guaranteed by the Indian Government—that was transferred by a deed, now in Court, to Edward Froggatt and Alfred Mean, dated 18th August, 1871—the actual registration of transfer was on 28th September, 1871—the deed was signed by Mr. Froggatt and Mr. Meare, accepting the stock—420l. of that stock was transferred by deed, dated 28th October, 1871, in two sums

of 380l. and 40l. registered on 23rd November, 1871; that deed was also signed by Froggatt and Mears—by deed of 27th March, 400l. of the stock was transferred in the same way, registered on 23rd April—the next transfer was of 100l. by deed of 1st July, 1874, in the same way, and signed by the same, 300l. by deed of 15th December, 1874, by two transfers, 300l. of the same stock by deed of 12th March, 1875, 200l. by deed of 16th June, 1875, 200l. on 11th November, 1875, 200l. on 29th December, 1875,300l. on 29th March, 1876, 100l. on 15th June, 1876, and 500l. on 17th November, 1876—after that date 300l. was transferred by deed on 15th June, 1877; that deed was signed by Edward Froggatt alone—previous to that date we had information of the death of Alfred Mears—on 15th June 1,500l. of that stock was transferred on the signature of Froggatt alone; on 27th August, 1877, 100l., and on 28th September, 1877, the remaining 500l., making altogether the 3,920l.—the stock was at various times at a premium—I hare given the amount of the stock in our books—these transfers are usually carried through by the stockbrokers—all the transferrs I have referred to are in Court.

FRANK LITTLETON SOARES . I am registrar of the Great Indian Peninsular Rail way Company—in May, 1871, there was standing in our books, in the name of Lord Augustus Charles Lennox Fitzroy, 4,140l. of the Great Indian Peninsular Railway Company's 5 per cent Capital Stock guaranteed by the Indian Government—I have a deed of transfer of September, 1871, from Lord Charles Fitzroy to Edward Froggatt and Alfred Mears; it purports to bear their signatures, accepting the stock—I produce a deed of transfer dated 28th October, 1871, purporting to be signed by Froggatt and Mears, transferring 790l. of that stock, and on 14th September, 1872, five deeds for 750l., 1,800l., 100l., 200l., and 400l., making 3,350l., also purporting to be signed by Froggatt and Mears.

JOHN COOK . I was valet to Lord Augustus Charles Lennox Fitzroy—the signatures to these two deeds of transfer of 18th May, 1871, and 24th August, 1871, are his; I attested them.

FREDERICK CLARKE . I am a member of the firm of Sparkes and Co., stockbrokers, of 2, Royal Exchange Buildings—in 1871 I knew the prisoner as a solicitor in Argyll Street—he employed us to sell stock of the Great Indian Peninsular Railway and the East Indian Railway, and we carriel through the various transfers for him—we prepared them in the ordinary way, and he signed them—I did not see his co-trustee, Alfred Mears—Mr. Froggatt took charge of them personally, or they were sent to him by post, and he obtained the signatures of Mears up to the time of Mears's deaths—the first transaction that our firm did for Mr. Froggatt was in selling the! 790l. Great Indian Peninsular and 420l. East Indian on 18th October, 1871—those two realised 1,297l. 8s. 3d., after deducting our expenses—I handed him our cheque on the Bank of England for that amount; it must have been sent to him by post or given to him personally—I knew no one eke in the transaction—this deed for the 790l. purports to be signed by Froggatt and Mears—I know Froggatt's writing, and to the best of my belief this is his, and that of Alfred Mears is the same signature that I acted upon all through as the signature of the other trustee—this other is for 380l., and purports to be signed in a similar way—it may be that the amount of 420l. was transferred in two transfers—this other is for 40l.; it is dated 28th October, 1871—this is the transfer signed by Froggatt and Mears—the

cheque for 1,297l. 8s. 3d. passed through our bankers in the ordinary way—we do not keep our cheques over seven years, but I produce the bankers' book—I can't remember whether it was a crossed cheque or not—on 7th September, 1872, I sold for Mr. Froggatt 3,350l. Great Indian Peninsular Rail way Stock—the deed is dated 14th September—it was in five transfers—I drew a cheque for 3,591l. 11s. 6d., which I delivered to him in person—it was made payable to cash at his request; that would enable it to be paid over the counter—the transfers all appear to be signed "Edward Froggatt" and "Alfred Mears"—on 27ih March, 1874, we sold 400l. East Indian Stock for Mr. Froggatt—that was made up of two transfers of 350l. and 50l.—we gave him in payment this cheque for 436l. 4s., after deducting our expenses—the stock was at a premium—I see I witnessed the signature to these transfers—in June, 1874, we sold for him 100l. East Indian, and gave in payment this cheque for 115l. 9s. 2d.—both this and the previous cheque were crossed "London and South-Western Bank"—that transfer was witnessed by me—the cheque is endorsed by Froggatt, and is made payable to his order, and was sent to him by post—the next we sold was on 4th November, 1876, 500l. East Indian; that was in one transfer, dated 17th November, 1876, and realised 588l. 17s. 6d.—this is the cheque I gave in payment—the crossing is struck out and "Pay cash "is put; that enables me to say that I gave it to the defendant myself—it has been returned paid—that transfer was signed by Froggatt and Mears—on 5th June, 1877, I sold for him 300l. East Indian, which realised 362l. 3s. 9d., less the dividend, which was at that time due; this is my cheque, with the crossing struck out, and made "Pay cash;" that was done at the request of the defendant—this transfer of 15th June, 1877, is one of the transfers; it is for 200l.; the other is for 201l.—that transfer is only signed by Froggatt—we had then been informed of Mears's death, and that proof had been given to the company—on 27th August, 1877, we sold 100l. East Indian stock, realising 129l. 2s. 6d.; this is the transfer—I gave this cheque to Mr. Froggatt in the same way, altered to "Pay cash;" this deed of transfer is signed by Froggatt alone—on 27th September we sold 500l. East Indian stock, realising 655l. 9s.; this is the cheque I gave him in payment—at that time we knew that he was under charge at Bow Street—in consequence of that I made this cheque payable to his order, and it was endorsed by him in my presence at my request—I had thought it right to inquire whether there was any distringas on the stock, and finding there was not we had to carry it through in the ordinary way—that deed is signed by Mr. Froggatt—an open cheque was given at his request.

Cross-examined. We sent to the company to know whether there was any distringas on the stock, and there was none.

THOMAS WILLIAM TROD . I am clerk to Messrs. Phillips, Ellison, and Co., stockbrokers, 39, Throgmorton Street—the prisoner employed us to sell and transfer some stock for him—on 15th December, 1874, we sold for him 300l. of the East Indian Railway Stock in two transfers, one of 200l. and one of 100l.; they realised 342l. 11s. 5d.—I gave him a cheque for that amount; it was either sent to him by post or given personally—the transfer was carried through in the ordinary way—he always got the signature of his co-trustee, Mears—I never saw Mears; Mr. Froggatt arranged it—these two transfers are signed by Froggatt and Mears, and witnessed by one of our clerks—I know Mr. Froggatt's writing; I witnessed some of his signatures

—to the best of my belief this is his writing—on 9th March, 1875, we sold him 300l. of the East Indian stock, which realised 349l. 5s.; the transfer dated 12th March, 1875—this is Mr. Froggatt's signature—I gave him cheque for 349l. 5s. on our bankers, the Imperial Bank—on 5th June sold 200l. of stock for 234l. 1s. 4d., for which we gave him our cheque—these are the signatures of Froggatt and Mears—on 15th December, 1875 we sold 200l. stock, which realised 230l. 16s. 1d.t for which we gave our cheque—the deed of transfer is dated 27th December, 1875, and is signed by Froggatt and Mears—on 15th March we sold 300l. stock, realising 347l. 0s. 2d.—I attested Mr. Froggatt's signature to that deed—I gave him our cheque in the ordinary way—on 8th June, 1876, I also witnessed hi signature to the transfer of 116l. 18s., dated 15th June.

HENRY MICHAEL LESLIE . I am manager of the London and South Western Bank, Regent Street—the prisoner opened an account with us a the end of 1874, or the beginning of 1875—a cheque, dated 30th March 1874, for 466l. 4s. was paid in to his account—on 6th July, 1874, a cheque for 115l. 9s., and another for 83l. 7s. 9d.—these are the paying in slip bearing the prisoner's signature, and the ledger containing his account.

THOMAS WILLIAM HENRY PRICE . I am a clerk in the Western Branch of the Union Bank, Argyll Place—the prisoner opened an account there—on 16th March, 1875, by paying in a cheque for 349l. 5s. of Ellison's on the Imperial Bank—the account was closed on the 27th December, 1876—the following cheques were carried to the prisoner's credit, one on 21st June, 1875, for 234l. 1s. 4d., of Phillips, Ellison, and Co., on the Imperial Bank—on 16th November one for 236l. 16s. of Ellison and Co.—on 3rd January, 1876, one for 230l. 16s. 1d., of Ellison's—on 3rd April, one for 347l. 0s. 2d. of Phillips and Co., and on 30th June, 116l. 18s. of Ellison's.

CHARLES WALLTREE . I am one of the paying cashiers in the private drawing-office of the Bank of England—on Friday, 15th June, 1877, I paid over the counter a cheque for 362l. 3s. 9d., drawn by Sparkes and Clarke—I gave for it twelve 51. notes and three 100l. notes, Nos. 48979-80 and 48981, dated 13th February, 1877—on 17th November, 1876, a cheque of 588l. 17s. 6d. was paid by Mr. Plummer, who has left the service.

LISTER BAYNES . I am a paying cashier at the Bank of England—on 27th August, 1877, I cashed this cheque for 129l. 2s. 6d. over the counter, and the amount was debited to Sparkes and Clarke's account.

JOHN ELDON KEENE . I am a paying cashier at the Bank of England—on 28th September, 1877, I cashed this cheque for 655l. 9s., and the amount was debited to Sparkes and Clarke's account—I gave for it five 10l. notes and six 100l. notes, Nos. 20299, 20300, and 50963 to 50966.

CHARLES JOHN WILLIAMS . I am a clerk in the accountant's office of the Bank of England—I produce the following 100l. notes, No. 20299 paid in on 6th November, 1877, endorsed "E. Donald, 170, Tulse Hill;" No. 20300 paid in on 20th October, 1877, endorsed "Edward Froggatt,6, Argyll Street;" No. 50963 paid in on 23rd November, 1877, endorsed "Elizabeth Donald, 170, Tulse Hill;" No. 50964 paid in on 3rd November, 1877, endorsed "Edward Lewis, 6, Argyll Street; "No. 50965 paid in on 5th October, 1877, endorsed "Edward Froggatt, 6, Argyll Street,"and the next, No. 50966, paid in on 28th September, 1877, endorsed "L. Lewis, 110, Blackfriars Road."

LOUIS LEWIS . I am manager of the South-Western Loan and Discount

Company, Limited, 110, Blackfriars Road—this Bank of England note, No. 50966, bears my endorsement; I received it from Mr. Froggatt about 28th September, 1877—he owed me money, and gave me that in payment—I believe it was at his office in Argyll Street; he sent for me to go there and receive it—I have a brother named Edward Lewis, who at that time was clerk to Mr. Froggatt, and had been so from 1872—lam not sure that this is my brother's endorsement on this note; it looks like it, but I am not sore; as far as I believe it is—I see the endorsement of Edward Froggatt, 6, Aigyll Street, on these notes, 20300 and 50965—I really cannot tell whether that is Mr. Froggatt's writing; I have only seen his handwriting once or twice, and I really should not like to say—I have no belief about it; I should not like to say one or the other—I see the endorsement of "Elizabeth Donald, 170, Tulse Hill, on the notes, Nos. 20299 and 50963"—I have seen such a person; I believe she is Mrs. Froggatt's sister—I believe Mr. Froggatt lived at Tulse Hill; I don't know the number.

Cross-examined. I know that he was under sentence of two years' imprisonment; I was one of his bail—I believe I was at his office in Argyll Street after he was arrested—I am not aware that all his documents and papers were taken away—my brother is here—I believe he was in Mr. Froggatt's employ at the time sentence was passed upon him—he has been subpœnaed to attend here as a witness for the prosecution.

FREDERICK CLARKE (Re-examined). I could not speak with any certainty as to the "Edward Froggatt, 6, Argyll Street," on the notes 20300 and 50965 being the defendant's writing; they have a similarity to his—I should hardly like to say that I had a belief on the subject—I think from the appearances it is very probable they were written by him.

WILLIAM JOHN FLUISTER . (City Detective Sergeant). On 28th October I apprehended the prisoner at the House of Correction, Cold Bath Fields, as he was coming out of prison—I had a warrant, which I read to him—he said "If I had not been in confinement this would not have happened, but my clerk has taken away all my papers from my office, and I don't know where they are."

MR. SLEIGH submitted that the prosecution had not made out their case. By a proviso of the section of the statute under which the prosecution was instituted (24 and 25 Vic. 96, Sec 80) it was enacted that in any civil proceeding no person should commence a prosecution without the sanction of the Court or Judge before whom such civil proceeding was pending. The civil proceeding in the present instance was before Vice-Chancellor Hall in the form of a statement of claim filed on behalf of Mrs. Fitzroy, but the sanction for this prosecution was obtained subsequently from Mr. Justice Bowen sitting ma the Vacation Judge, and who, therefore, was not the Court or Judge before whom the civil proceedings were pending.

BARON POLLOCK was clearly of opinion that the objection could not be sustained. By the Judicature Act the distinction between the—Courts of Law and Equity was abolished, and Mr. Justice Bowen as Vacation Judge was the only Court of Chancery then sitting, and was in the words of the section "the Court or Judge "authorised to give the required sanction for the prosecution.

GUILTY .— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

NEW COURT.—Wednesday, December 17th, 1879.

Before Mr. Justice Lindley.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-99
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

99. FREDERICK COLEMAN (20) , Rape on Mary Ann O'Shee.



FOURTH COURT.—Wednesday, December 17th, 1879.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-100
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

100. JOSEPH JOHNSON (57) , Feloniously killing a sheep, with intent to steal the carcase.

MR. POYNTER Prosecuted; MR. GILL Defended.

MATTHEW GAYNES . I am farm bailiff to Mr. East—the prisoner is a hay-binder, and has worked for me—on Saturday, 30th August, when I went round at 6 o'clock in the evening there were 200 sheep in a field at I Brentfield Lane, Willesden—next morning, at 6.30, I missed a wether I sheep, marked with a red painted dot on the rump—we found the skin in I a ditch, with the entrails wrapped up in it—this is the skin (produced)—the value of the sheep was 53s.,

Cross-examined. I counted the sheep myself twice on Saturday evening I and both I and my man counted them the next morning—I did not swear before the Magistrate "I do not know the prisoner"—I have known bin I eight or nine years—I said "I do not know who had the sheep."

ROBERT JOHNSON . The prisoner is my father—I live at Willesden—I remember in August last my father taking me to the Spotted Dog it I Leavesden and giving me some beer, but I do not know the day or week or mouth—he afterwards sent me to bed—when he got home km fetched me out of bed and well thrashed me because I would not go with him—he asked me to go down Brenttield Lane 16 kill a sheep—we went down Brentfield Lane into Mr. East's field, and father told me to go round I the sheep and drive them up in a corner—I did so—then he told me to I kneel down and hold it while he cut its throat, and he knelt down too—before he killed it he drew it from one gap to another, a distance of 200 yards, through the gap and under a willow tree close against the feeder in an adjoining field—then I held it while he cut its throat—he skinned it and threw the skin and entrails into the ditch, and then cut the sheep in halves with an axe which he took with him, and put half in each bag, and we each carried half to father's allotment, and put some potatoes and greens on top of it—about two hours after he took it home and put it in salt and water—he told mother that he brought it from Newgate Market—this bag (produced) is the one in which father carried half—there was blood from the sheep, which stained my shirt and jacket.

Cross-examined. I do not know how old I am—I was taken in custody and charged with killing the sheep, and after I was charged I said it was my father—when before the Magistrate I spoke of the sheep being taken to the allotments and covered up, but I did not say anything about its being dragged 200 yards—I was not asked—I do not know who was in the house at the time it was taken home—Mr. George lodged there then; father and I mother ate it, and I had nothing to do with it.

Re-examined. I had a bit of it, but not much—I have had a quarrel

with my father—I do not know when—I had a pair of corduroy trousers on that night, and these I am now wearing he had on.

EBENEZER MEAD (Police Inspector). On 31st August, about 9 o'clock, I went to Brentfield with Constable Bedford, and saw where some sheep had been driven up in the corner of the field; I traced where something had been driven to slaughter, and found blood and marks of one knee of corduroy trousers in the mud—I traced blood marks through the gateway into the adjoining field under a willow-tree, and saw the akin produced rolled up in a ditch with the entrails in it—the nearest highway is about 100 yards from where the slaughter took place—on the ground under the willow there were small pieces of bone and blood, as if something had been cut up—I followed the traces across the field to a fence adjoining another field, and I saw blood on a fence in the direction of the prisoner's house—on 19th November I went with the last witness to Brent Lane.

Cross-examined. The boy was taken in custody, but not charged.

By the COURT. They would not have to pass the allotments to go to the prisoner's house from the field—from the field where I traced the marks he would go to the Midland and North-Western Junction Railway where the witness took me, and then he said "We took up the line to the allotments"—the line runs between the allotments—I failed to find any traces farther than the railway.

WILLIAM GEORGE . In August last, and up to about a month ago, I was lodging at the prisoner's house—one night, about 8th or 9th September, I was sitting up in the same room with the prisoner and his wife, who were quarrelling—he said "The b——knife which cut the sheep's throat will cut your b——throat"—she said "You know you dragged the boy out of bed to go and kill the sheep"—the prisoner made no reply to that.

Cross-eramined. I was living in the house the whole of August, excepting from Saturday to Monday night—I used to live in the same room with the prisoner and his wife.

SAMUEL CLUNEY (Policeman). I took the prisoner on the 18th November; I told him he would be charged with stealing a wether sheep in Brentfield Lane on 31st August, the property of Mr. Joshua East, farmer—he said "Oh!"—I said "Yes"—he said "Where is my son?"—I told him he was detained at Willesden Police-station—he said "Nobody saw me do it, and I shall make him a b——liar, and you too"—I took him to the station.

Cross-examined. I had taken the son to Willesden Police-station on the same charge on 18th November—we had been seeking for another man.


For the case of Yankowski and others tried in Old Court, Thursday and Friday See Surrey Cases.

NEW COURT.—Thursday, December 18th, 1879.

Before Mr. Justice Iindley.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-101
VerdictGuilty > manslaughter
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

101. ANTONY RIPPIN (30) , for the wilful murder of Walter William Wiggin. He was also charged on the Coroner's Inquisition with the like offence.


JAMES MAITLAND . I am carpenter on board the steamer Duke of Buccleugh

—the prisoner was the butcher, and the deceased William Wiggi the chief steward—on 6th October we had made fast at Port Said, and ther was a lighter alon side the vessel—I saw the prisoner go towards the steward in a very threatening way with something in his hand, and by the time got round the mast the blow had been given—I heard the blow and saw the steward falling overboard—he fell seven feet into the lighter—I took holt of the prisoner and handed him to the chief officer—he said something in French which I did not understand, and dropped this belaying-pin (producd)—it is made of iron—before the blow was struck the steward was finding fault with the prisoner for being negligent with the poultry, and I saw him give the prisoner two or three blows; I cannot say whether with his open hand or fist—that was 10 minutes before I saw the steward falling into the lighter—the prisoner was standing behind the steward when he struck the blow.

Cross-examined The steward was sober—he used to drink now and then—Port Said is a hot place, and it is a common practice on going ashore to indulge a little—I saw the steward strike the prisoner two or three times, but the blows were not violent—I was 12 or 14 feet off—I moved forward and aft about the same distance—I could see them both—the steward did not continue to strike the prisoner—he was angry because the chickens were not caught directly, but he went 12 feet from the prisoner after striking him, leaving him to catch the fowls or encourage the men to catch them—they had gone over into the lighter—we were made fast to a buoy—the prisoner was first engaged at Calcutta; the steward engaged him—I heard that he had been in the service of the Ducal line of steamers; he had experience of being at sea—I was loading the cargo, and coal was coming on board; over 100 men were employed in the general work of loading, but there was not considerable noise and confusion, because they had finished taking the coal in and had gone away—the ship was quite quiet during the 10 minutes which elapsed after the steward hit the prisoner—the prisoner was putting the fowls away, and the steward was trying to catch them.

WILLIAM ROBINSON (Thames Police Inspector). On 8th October I was present at St. Mary's Hospital when Mr. de Rutzen attended to take the deposition of William Wiggin; the prisoner was present—the deposition was interpreted to him, and he had the opportunity of asking any question he wished.

Cross-examined. The interpreter was told in English to make that statement to the prisoner; he did so, and the prisoner asked some questions.

(The deposition of William Wiggin was here put in and read,.)

RANNING FLETCHER , I am shore steward—I knew the deceased and assisted to carry him to St. Mary's Hospital—I visited him there, and was there about five or six days before 5th December, when he died—he got his wife to write to me, and I went—he said "I am very very bad and dying"—I tried to cheer him up, but he said "It is no use your trying to make me believe I am not, the doctors say so; when Mr. de Rutzen was here to take my deposition I said I struck him with my open hand, but it was with my clenched fist, and I should not like to—"and he broke off in violent pain—some time afterwards he said "If they will only look at my Port Said declaration they will see that I said with my clenched fist there, and that was the true statement."

CAHARLES HAYWARD ,. I am one of the house surgeons at St. Mary's Hospital—I attended the deceased; he died on 5th December; he was admitted on 22nd October suffering from fracture of the spine and paralysis of the lower limbs—he had a wound on his head which was almost healed—fracture of the spine would result from falling from one vessel to another.

Cross-examined. Fracture of the spine was the cause of death—I attended the post-mortem—there was no fracture of the skull, or any sign of a serious wound except the cicatrix of a scalp wound, which had gone entirely through the scalp, but had not injured the bone.

THOMAS ALEXANDER . I was surgeon on board the Duke of Buccleugh—on 6th October at Port Said I was called to the chief steward, and found him bleeding from a very severe wound at the back of his head, about three inches long, both incised and contused—this instrument would cause it—he complained of great pain in his back; he had no power in his limbs, and could not feel his legs—when I saw him he was in the lighter alongside the steamer—he was unable to move, and was carried on board—I then examined him, and found a bruise on the lower part of his spine, which would be likely to result from a fall overboard into the lighter—he remained paralysed the whole voyage, and on our arrival he was conveyed to St. Mary's Hospital—he was a very strong man, and was in robust health before this.

Cross-examined. I was told that the butcher had struck him with a belaying pin, which I saw afterwards with blood on it—I did not consider the wound on his head dangerous—he must have fallen on his back—he was a pretty temperate man; he took a glass sometimes—I never saw him strike any one before.

The following witnesses had been examined for the defence before the Magistrate, but were now called by the prosecution.

BASIL RAYMOND (Interpreted,). I am cabin boy on board the Duke of Buccleugh—on 6th October we were at Port Said, and I saw some fowls brought on board; one of them escaped, and the steward struck the butcher two or three times with his fist—after that some more fowls ran away, and the steward got angry, and struck him again with his fist three or four times—eight or nine minutes after that the steward went and looked over the rail after some fowls which had escaped there, and the butcher came behind him and struck him with this, and he fell down into the boat—I cannot exactly say what time elapsed between the first and second blow with the fist; I had no watch with me.

Cross-examined. I said before the Magistrate that 10 minutes elapsed between the first and second blow—I saw the blow struck with the belaying pin, that was eight or ten minutes after the steward had struck the prisoner the last time—I did not say before the Magistrate that it was immediately—the steward was a good man as far as I know.

JAMSON RAMJAM (Interpreted). I was a saloon waiter on board this vessel—on 6th October I saw potatoes, ducks, fowls, and rabbits brought on board at Port Said; some of the fowls escaped, and the steward got very angry; there were some harsh words, and he struck the prisoner with his hand—the steward then ran about looking after the poultry, and I saw the prisoner knock him with a belaying pin, and he fell into the lighter—that was eight or ten minutes after the steward had struck him—I did not say before the Magistrate that it was two or three minutes afterwards; I said eight or ten minutes.

BAJOU JANCONALLI (Interpreted). I am a seaman—on 6th October I was on board the vessel at Port Said; the fowls ran about—there were some words, and the steward struck the prisoner twice with his hand, and eight or ten minutes after that the prisoner took up a belaying pin, and struck the steward, and he fell into the lighter.

Cross-examined. They were not lighting one with the other, but one struck first, and the other afterwards—during the eight or ten minutes between the steward's last blow and the prisoner taking up the pin the prisoner was taking in the fowls and the geese.

GUILTY of manslaughter. Five Years' Penal Servitude.

FOURTH COURT, Thursday, December 18th, 1879.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-102
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

Related Material

102. SAMUEL BURTON RELF (37) PLEADED GUILTY to 3 indictments for unlawfully obtaining goods by false pretences— Judgment Respited. And

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-103
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

103. WILLIAM SCOTT (62) to stealing a bag and other articles belonging to William Payne, and a coat belonging to Joseph Hunt; also assaulting a police constable in the execution of his duty.— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-104
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

104. MARY MORRAY (35) , Feloniously casting upon Margaret Henley sulphuric acid, with intent to do her grievous bodily harm.

MR. GRIFFITHS Prosecuted; MR. A.B. KELLY Defended.

JULIA TOOLE . I have been in the service of Mr. Hartell, of 12, Earl Street, Westminster, 12 months—the prisoner used to wash for Mr. Hartell—she has not had the washing since about a week before this affair occurred—on 31st October she came to the house—I opened the door to her, and she said "Tell Margaret I want to see her"—Mrs. Henley's Christian name is Margaret, and she was housekeeper to Mr. Hartell—I was kitchen-maid and had to attend to the door—Mr. Hartell had a housemaid, kitchen-maid, and cook—I went to the kitchen and told Mrs. Henley, and she went upstairs—I followed her—before Mrs. Henley got to the top of the stairs the prisoner threw some vitriol in her face, and then opened the door and fled—she had her band under her cloak—I did not see her take her hand out—it was all done in a moment—it was a dark thick fluid—it burnt Mrs. Henley, who cried out "Oh, my eye!"—it went into her eye—she sat down in a chair, and seemed in much pain—there was a quantity of fluid lying about the hall—her dress was much burnt—the housemaid, Mary Keen, took her to the hospital.

Cross-examined. I do not know anything about any quarrels between Mrs. Henley and the prisoner.

Re-examined. I do not know whether the discontinuance of the washing pleased or displeased her.

MARY KEEN . I am housemaid to Mr. Hartell—on 31st October, when the prisoner came, I was coming downstairs to the hall, and prisoner was standing in the middle of the hall—I did not see anything in her hand—I went down into the kitchen as Mrs. Henley was coming up, and I heard her scream—I ran up immediately, and found her in a dreadful state, crying, and very much burnt about the face—I have been in Mr. Hartell's service three years—the prisoner has done the washing about 12 months, I think—about a week before the occurrence the washing was discontinued

—I did not hear the prisoner complain about it at all—I know of no quarrel between her and Mrs. Henley.

MARGARET HENLEY . I am housekeeper to Mr. Hartell, and have been in his employment 29 years next May—the prisoner did washing for the house, and washed the linen of the church a little over 12 months—Mr. Hartell told me not to send it her any more—I do not know whether the prisoner was pleased or displeased, for I did not see her—Mr. Hartell communicated with her about the discontinuance—there had never been any words between the prisoner and myself—on 31st October the kitchenmaid called me up to the ball, and as I was going upstairs I saw the prisoner standing on the mat, and the moment I got sight of her she threw a liquid into my face—she did not say a word, nor did I—I was going up to hear what she had to say—it burnt me very much immediately—I did not notice if she had anything in her hands—her hands were hid under her cloak—she took one hand out, and I could see that with that hand she threw something—I was burnt on my face in my right eye and on both hands—my dress was very much burnt—I cannot now see with my right eye; it is perfectly blind—the other is very weak—I was immediately taken to the hospital—I am still under the charge of the doctor—the only reason I can account for the prisoner's action is that she wanted to come into the house as a servant when she first came into the neighbourhood, and I refused her—this dress (produced) is the one I had on—it was not burnt like that before the vitriol was thrown on it—it was a new dress, and had been washed only once.

ARTHUR SPENCER DAVIS . On 31st October I was acting as house surgeon at the Westminster Hospital—I examined the last witness—she was suffering from a burn on the right cheek and right side of the neck and right arm and slightly on the left arm—the upper part of the body of her dress was also burnt—the burning substance had penetrated the dress to the skin of the neck and upper part of the breast—the right eye was injured by the intrusion of some fluid—she was taken into the ward, and evidently suffered very much—she has remained in the ward ever since with the exception of attending at the police-court—sbe has entirely lost the sight of the right eye, and it remains a question whether the eye will not have to be removed to endeavour to avoid sympathy and to try to save the other eye—where there is an injury to one eye there is always a liability of the other to suffer—the burns were such as would be caused by oil of vitriol, which is the popular name for sulphuric acid—it is a dark liquid and oily—I submitted the dress to a chemical test, and undoubtedly detected oil of vitriol—she is still under my care.

WILLIAM DUTSON (Policeman B 322). I received information, went to prisoner's house, and said to her "Do you know the housekeeper at No. 12, Earl Street?"—she replied "Yes"—I said "Will you go there with me?"—she went, but said nothing afterwards.

The Prisoner received a good character.

GUILTY .— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-105
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

Related Material

105. GEORGE GIBBS (25) , Rape on Ellen Russell.

GUILTY of the attempt Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

NEW COURT.—Friday, December 19th, 1879.

Before Mr. Justice Lindley.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-106
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

106. CHARLES SHURETY (29) was indicted for the wilful murder of Louisa Piper.


ELIZA COVE . I am the wife of Robert Cove, a carpenter, living at No. 2, Payne's Place, Kentish Town Road; we occupy the front room ground floor—the prisoner lived in the back room ground floor—he came there about 11th October last with Mary Ann Piper and three children; the eldest child was a girl about 13, named Emily Piper, the next was a boy, Charles Piper, about 11, and the third was the baby, Louisa Piper—Mrs. Mead occupied one of the rooms upstairs—the woman Mary Ann Piper used to go out to work the greater part of the day; she used to go out at all times, mostly early in the morning, and return in the evening—the eldest girl, Emily, was out during the day, she had a little place; the boy was mostly at school during school hours—the prisoner was usually at home with the baby—I first saw the baby about a fortnight after they came, on a Sunday, I saw her going out along with the elder sister—I noticed the appearance of the child; I noticed bruises on the side of its little ear and scratches on the side of its face—in our room I could hear distinctly what took place in the prisoner's room; there was only a partition door between the two rooms—he has knocked the baby about when the woman has been at home, but he has beat it most shamefully when she has been out—I could hear every word that was said—I heard him beating the chili about a fortnight after they came, and he called her dreadful names; he used to call it a little bleeding mare—on one occasion he said to the woman she would have the pleasure one of these days, of seeing the bleeding mare lying under his feet and dash its little guts out before her own eyes—when he has been alone with the child, I have heard noises as if he was slapping its little bottom, and as if he has thrown the child against the door, and I have heard the child make a kind of squeaking noise, it would not last a minute—this used to occur more or less every day—when I heard it I have hammered at the door and told him he ought to be ashamed of himself to use a dear baby like that—he made the reply once that he would rip my b——face open—the child died on Monday, 1st December—on the Friday before that he was brutally ill-treat—the child whilst the mother was out, slapping it, and as if he was jobbing it on the floor, and he threw it up against the partition door—the child only made the squeaking noise, and it would die off into little sobs; you would not hear much of its crying—I told him he ought to be ashamed of himself, if he went on much more of it I would fetch in a policeman—he came out into the passage and told me to mind my own b——business, it was the mother that had done it—on that Friday the mother was there; she did not say anything; she came out—I don't think the prisoner heard what passed between us, because she was too frigtened he should hear it; she went into the back yard for some water—on the Saturday before the child died, he was ill-treating the mother all day long, as well as the baby—on the Sunday the child had wetted in front of the fireplace, and he said the bleeding little mare had taken a warm place for it; it wanted to go to the po, and he broke it against the door and threw the child on to the po—the child broke into a

little sobbing cry, but it was soon over—on the Monday morning, a little after 9, I heard the mother crying; I knocked at the door and asked what was the matter—I ultimately went into the room; the mother was dressed to go to work, the prisoner was just getting off the bed putting his trowsers on—the child was lying on the side of the bed, its little arms drawn up—I tried to lay them straight as well as I could; it was quite dead—I said "Oh, you poor little murdered creature'—the prisoner stood against the fireplace—Mr. Mead was present at the time—the prisoner said "Make matters as well as you can for me, Mrs. Core"—the woman did nothing, only stood crying—I noticed that the child's head was dreadfully bruised, there were two bruises on its head; it only had on a little shirt—the mother and I went and fetched Dr. Brown—the mother had placed the child on the side of the bed where she and the prisoner used to sleep; it usually slept on the floor on two pillows—I showed the woman the bruises and asked her how it was done, and she said it fell off the po; she afterwards said that the prisoner had done it, that on Sunday he picked it up three times by the hair of its head and threw it on the floor, that she picked it up and tried to stand it on its feet and it could not stand, that he then kicked her into the corner of the room, that he was coming across, as she thought to hit her again, and she said "Oh, don't, Charley, you have done it for me this time," and he said "Nonsense, you want to make me believe something now," and then he knocked her down—she said the bruises were caused as the child was going to get up off the floor, he hit her on the side of the head and the head came in contact with the door, and that the child was never sensible afterwards—she was telling this to me, and the prisoner said "Oh, it is all nonsense."

Cross-examined. I never called in a policeman; the other lodger did, about a month before the child died; I was not present—the prisoner was not taken up by the policeman—I have seven children—I was there about a month before the prisoner came—there were other lodgers; all the rooms were occupied; there are six rooms—I never went into the prisoner's room but once—the woman Was too frightened to speak to any of us in the house—what I have told is only what I heard; I never saw anything take place—the prisoner Was nearly always at home; I never knew him to be at work; I never missed him out of the place above an hour or half an hour during the day; I am perfectly sure of that—t am sure he was not at work on the Friday fortnight before the child died; that is the Friday I have spoken of, not the Friday before the death; if I slid so it must have been a misunderstanding; it was the Friday week before, and on the Saturday and Sunday before it died—I don't know of anything particular that took place on the Friday before it died—on the Saturday and Sunday the woman was at home all day—as far as I could tell she was very fond of the children—I never heard her beat them—I have never seen the prisoner, only when he has gone past the window and come back again—I could not tell from his manner whether he was drunk at times; I never had any conversation with him; I could not tell whether he was drunk or sober—it was on the Sunday afternoon before the child's death that I last heard anything particular; at that time the mother was in the room; it was on that occasion that the mother was knocked in the corner against the door—it was on the Friday week before the child died that I called Mrs. Mead down into my room; that was one of the occasions when he knocked the child against the wall; on that occasion the mother came out of the room and said it was she who had been

knocked into the corner of the room—I cannot tell you when it was that he said she should have the pleasure of seeing him place the child at her feet and dash its guts out under her eyes, because it was every day's occurrence; it is impossible to remember the dates—I don't mean that I heard that expression every day; it was on the Friday fortnight before the child's death—I forgot it when I was before the Magistrate; I believe I said it before the Coroner—on one occasion, when I knocked at the door and complained that he was knocking the child about, the mother did not come out and tell me that I was mistaken; the prisoner came out and told me so—it was after that that she came out and said that she had been thrown against the door; she said she was thankful to think that I had interfered—I could not exactly say the last time I saw the child before it died; I think it was about a month before—the scratches I saw on the face were not like sores, just as if it was from finger-nails—I had no opportunity of seeing how the other children were treated—I never saw the prisoner nursing this child or the others—I never went into the room.

Re-examined. I was always on good terms with the woman when I spoke to her; I had no occasion to be otherwise; I have had no quarrel with either of them—on the Friday, when she came out and said she was glad I had interfered, she was crying; she said he had knocked her into the corner because she had taken the baby's part.

By the COURT. It was not a crying, noisy baby; it was a quiet, dear little thing—I did not know that it was dirty in its habits.

HARRIET MEAD . I am the wife of William Thomas Mead, a plasterer, of 2, Payne's Place; we occupy the first floor back, directly over the prisoner's room—I was living there on 11th October, when the prisoner came to live there—about a fortnight after they came I heard the man smacking the baby's bottom; I was on the stairs; the mother was not there at the time—about six weeks previous to the child's death Mrs. Cove called me downstairs, and we went close to the door of the prisoner's room, and I heard as though he banged the baby on the floor; once the child gave a kind of moaning cry, and after that it seemed as though he threw it against the partition; the child only gave the same kind of moaning cry—I said, "You brute, you are knocking that child about again, while the mother is out earning the bread to put into your mouth"—the mother was not there then; she was out at work—he told me to mind my own business, and he would like to serve me in the same way, he would like to put the heel of his boot on my a—; after that I went upstairs—the same evening, about 5 or 6, I went downstairs for some water; at that time the woman was at home—I heard the prisoner swearing; it seems the mother was undressing the child to put it to bed—he said, "Do you know what I would like to do to her? I would like to lay her down on the floor stark naked, a—upwards, and thrash her till she could not move, and let her lie there and not have anything to eat until she died"—I heard this through the window; I could not see into the room; the glass was papered up—I said to him, "Do you know what I would like to do with you if I had my will "I would serve you in the same way; I would get a cat-o'-nine-tails to you"—he told me to mind my own business, and I had no business looking under his window—a night or two after that I was again outside the window, and heard him swearing at the mother and the child—I heard him say to the boy, "Undress her, Charley, and put her to bed out of the way"—some

time after that, it might be a week after, I was passing up the stairs; apparently the baby was on the po; I heard him say, "This is the second time, God help you the third; if you don't do it this time I will do for you"—I think that was between a fortnight and three weeks before the child died—on the Saturday before it died he was swearing all day at the mother, through something he did not like in the child's doings; I did not hear distinctly what he said—all day on the Sunday it was the same, he and the mother continually grumbling at each other—during the whole of the time I never saw or heard the mother ill-treat the child—she was there when I spoke to him about the cat-o'-nine-tails; she did not speak—on the Monday morning, 1st December, about 9.15, I was fetched down into the room by Mrs. Cove, and saw the child on the bed dead—it was very much bruised about the forehead and about the body; it had on a little shirt—I told the prisoner he was the instigation of it—he said, "Missis, how can you say so?"—I said, "Because I do"—the mother said that on the Sunday she went to stand it on its feet and it could not stand; it fell down, and he hit it on the side of the ear as it fell-down; he lifted it up three times by (he hair of its head, and sat it on the floor; that it fell over against the chair, causing the wound on the forehead, and that it was not sensible after that—the prisoner said, "Nonsense, nonsense," nothing more.

Cross-examined. I went out for a policeman one day, and he said he could not come off his. beat—the woman was fond of the children as far as I could tell—I never heard any illusage of the child while she was there, I am sure of that—she was present when he said he would like to leave it on the floor without anything to eat till it died; that might be between a fortnight and three weeks before it died—I am quite sure about the words that were' used—I am quite sure he said about leaving it there till it died—I believe I told the Coroner so; if it is not put down it must be a mistake on somebody's part, not mine—I am quite sure I said it—they are very important words—I never went into the room, I only hoard these expressions—I don't believe he was the worse for liquor; I could not see him, but I don't believe at these times that he had been out of the house—I don't agree with Mrs. Cove in saying that he was never out at work all the time he was there, because he sent the little girl up to me one night asking me to call him up in the morning about 5 o'clock—I don't think he went out to work above twice;—he was more at home than he was away—I don't think he was away more than two days, at different times—I told the Coroner that he did not seem to have much work to do—he did not go to work frequently during the first three weeks he was there—I never saw him with the other children—on the Saturday and Sunday before the child died I only heard him swearing at the woman—she was at home all day Saturday and Sunday—I heard Mrs. Cove on one occasion accuse him of knocking the child about, and the mother came out and said she was mistaken, that he had not been doing so—that was on the Friday week before the child died.

Re-examined. I don't know whether he was at work or where he was on the two days he was absent—I believe he is a horsekeeper by trade, but I don't know.

EMILY PIPER . I am 14 years old—I live with my mother at 2, Payne's Place—my mother was living in the same room with the prisoner and us—before he came to live with us my mother lived with us three children—we were

not living at Payne's Place before the prisoner came, we all went there together—after he came to live with us I have seen him smack my little sister—he began smacking her on the arm first, then he began smacking her bottom—I have seen him do that several times—I remember a week or two after he came the child making water on the floor, and he picked up the poker to hit her with; my mother put her hand up to save it, and he knocked mother down and jumped upon her—I have seen him take the child up by the arm and throw her against the partition—on the Sunday evening before she died she was in bed, and he took her out of bed, put her on his lap, and gave her a good smack on her bottom—she kept opening and shutting her eyes, mother said "Look at her eyes, you can see what is the matter with her"—he said it was only a kid, and he danced her up and down on the floor on her feet to make her stand; she could not stand—I don't know whether she was asleep or awake when he took her out of bed—he then put her to bed again—I go out to get my living; I had a little place in service—I used to go out at 8 o'clock in the morning, and generally came home at 10 o'clock at night—I have seen some bruises on my sister's bottom—she had a lot of sores on the top of her head—at one time I and my little brothers and the baby slept together; the prisoner took her away when we used to fondle her up, and put it on two pillows on the floor—he has put his hand over her mouth so that she should not cry.

Cross-examined. He used to go out to work sometimes; when he first came he used to get up every morning early, about 4.80 or 5, and go out to look for work—he used to stop out till about 8 o'clock in the morning—he did that every morning for the first three weeks or so—he did not get drunk very often, he did sometimes—he used bad language when he was drunk, not so bad as he used to when sober; he was more pleased then; then he used hardly to say anything—mother was very fond of us all—we had enough to eat, all of us—the prisoner would not let mother give baby any unless he thought proper; she used to have food—before we were at Payne's Place we were receiving parish relief—I have sometimes seen the prisoner nursing the baby properly—she was rather given to making water on the floor; she hardly ever used to do it about the place, when she did he smacked her bottom—when he took up the poker and mother put up her hand, he laughed, and said "Don't be foolish; you did not think I was going to hit her with that"—I was not at home all day on the Sunday before the baby died; I went out to work—I don't know how long she had been in bed when he took her out—I did not say that she wanted the po; I can't say whether my brother said so—the prisoner put her on the po; that was the reason why he took her out of bed—I did not notice whether she did anything when he put her on—I have sometimes heard mother complain that when she was put on she would not do anything, and then afterwards she would make water on the floor—she used very often to cry in the night when she was sleeping with us—there was hardly enough covering on the bed for all of us; she used to cry sometimes because she was uncovered—she sometimes used to scratch the sores on her head; I have seen her do so—she also had some sores on her legs; she used to pick and scratch her sores—I have not said before to-day that he knocked my mother down and jumped on her—I don't think I told the Magistrate that.

Re-examined. It is a fact that he did knock her down and jump on her. with his knees on her side; that was after she was on the ground—he did not interfere at all with my food—when we all three slept together in the bed I used to cuddle the child up, when it was put on the pillows it had only an old patchwork quilt to cover it, and a jacket or two—on the bed we had jackets and old clothes, no blankets—he used to go out from 5.30 till 8 in the morning, and then came back—he used to go out between 11 and 12 o'clock; that was before I went to service—he went out at 5 o'clock and came back at 9 o'clock after we went to Payne's Place, but only about three times.

ANDREW BROWN , L.R.C.S. I live at 1, Bartholomew's Road, Kentish Town—on 1st December I was called to Payne's Place, and saw the deceased child; it was very much emaciated—I made these notes of the post-mortem—it weighed only 13 1/2 lb., and the usual weight of a child of that age is 301b.—there was a bruise on the right forehead, and the left cheek was swollen and hard—there was a scratch on the right cheek, a sore on the top of the head with a scab on it, three scratches at the back of the neck, a bruise on the left forehead, three raw wounds on the right buttock, each about the size of a threepenny piece, a similar sore over the right knee joint, and also on the back of the leg—the bruises were quite recent—the worst one was on the right forehead—the internal organs were healthy; there was nothing to account for death—the inner surface of the scalp had considerable extravasation of blood, which was the result of bruises, and under the bruise on the right forehead was a slight amount of congestion of the brain, not sufficient to cause death by itself, but it would decidedly do so combined with such treatment as I have heard to-day—the stomach contained no food—I found the mother there when I first went, and spoke to her; the prisoner came in afterwards, but I did not speak to him.

Cross-examined. The woman gave me an account of the bruises on the forehead—I did not call the sores on the legs "cinder sores;" I only said "sores"—I think they were the result of neglect—that applies to the greater portion of them; I mean neglect in cleanliness, but if the child had been scratched, and had picked it, very likely it would cause sores—I Said before the Magistrate "Those marks might be caused by violence, or by the child rubbing itself on the floor, and scratching the wounds afterwards"—the sore on the head might be caused in the same way, from a pimple—the room was very poor; I did not inquire of the prisoner or any one else as to whether there was any food there—the bruises on the forehead might have caused the congestion, but the congestion was not sufficient of itself to cause death—to produce the congestion there must have been concussion first, and I think the shock to the nervous system arising from that was the cause of death in a weakly child—the immediate cause of death was the shock to the nervous system; that sheck must have been caused by violence of some sort, and that violence must, in my opinion, have been inflicted within 24 hours of death—I presume that the death was from shock, because I could find no other cause—I think the child had been very weakly from its birth—I think the mother said at the inquest that the father died from cousumption, but I am not sure—the condition of poverty Would be likely to make the child worse—I did not notice that the children had nothing but their clothes to put on their beds—I think I have understated the weight of a child of two years at 301b.—I do not think the prisoner was

present when the woman gave me an account of the bruise on the forehead; he came in before I left the room, but I think she had told me how it happened before he came in—I do not think he was present when she told me—she said "The child fell from the po and bruised its forehead"—a child of those tender years falling a short distance might receive a severe bruise on its forehead, but it would not produce three bruises—I think the child simply falling would scarcely account for the severe bruises on the forehead, but I cannot speak for certainty—I do not think that a child weakly from its birth falling forward in a helpless condition on its face would receive such a bruise as was on this child's forehead, but I should not like to swear it would not.

Re-examined. I saw no symptoms of consumption, except that the mesenteric glands were a little enlarged, but not in a state to cause death—the state of its body would come from neglect—I should expect to find sores in a child weighing 13lb. which ought to weigh 30lb. if it was not properly attended to—scratches from anything on the floor, and the child picking them afterwards, would account for the sores on the legs—I think the bruise on the forehead was the result of considerable violence.

WALTER DUNLOP . I am resident medical officer at St. Pancras Work-house—I assisted Mr. Brown in the examination—I have heard his evidence, and agree with it.

CHARLES DODD (Police Inspector Y). I took the prisoner and the woman Piper from the governor of Newgate under an order from the Secretary of State—I told them at the station that they would be charged with being concerned in causing the death of Louisa Piper, aged one year and eleven months—they made no reply.

Cross-examined. I did not see the room till after the whole of the furniture was removed—I did not go into it on the Monday—Mrs. Cove did.

ELIZA COVE (Re-examined). I went into the room on the Monday, and laid the baby out—I cannot tell whether there was any food in the cupboard, but I think not, because I gave Mrs. Piper a can of soup on the Monday, as she said she bad nothing to eat.


15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-107
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

Related Material

107. MARY ANN PIPER (33) was charged, on the Coroner's Inquisition only, with feloniously killing and slaying Louisa Piper. (The Grand Jury having thrown out the bill for murder, MR. MONTAGU WILLIAMS offered no evidence on the Inquisition.)


THIRD COURT—Friday, December 19th, 1879.

Before Mr. Recorder.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-108
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

108. JOHN WILLIAMS (21 Forging and uttering an order for the delivery of goods, with intent to defraud.


WILLIAM PERRIN (City Policeman 504). On 4th December, at 3.30 p.m., prisoner was given into my custody, at 130, Queen Victoria Street, for obtaining goods by forged order—he made no answer to the charge.

HENRY HARFORD . I am warehouseman to Mr. Pollock, of 130, Queen Victoria Street—prisoner came into our office at 2.30 p.m., and presented this order (This was dated 28th November, 1879, for three reams of 23pink double crown paper, 487, 1l. 7s. 3d., and signed for Charles Morgan and Co., E. H.)—Charles Morgan and Co. are customers of ours—I gave prisoner the goods under the belief that it was a genuine order—the invoice was sent to Charles Morgan and Co. on the following day, and returned on the 4th December—the prisoner came again, and said he came from Charles Morgan's—he brought this order (produced) for two reams of orange double crown, value 15s., signed "Charles Morgan and Co., E. H."—I kept him in conversation till Mr. Pollock came in, who said it was a forged order, and gave him in charge—I asked him what he had done with the paper, and he said he had made use of it—I asked him if he could get us the paper back or find us the money, and whether he had had paper here before—at first he said "No," but after a minute he said he had that paper, and had done away with it.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I did not offer to settle the case—I. asked you if you could tell us where to get the paper or the money, and you said no, you could not—I said that if you paid 1l. 7s. 3d. I would let you go—I also said my master would stop the money out of my account—finding you had not the money in your pocket, and that you said you could not get it, I said I should detain you till Mr. Pollock came in, and he sent me for a policeman to lock you up—I told you at the time I did not wish to be hard with you under the circumstances.

ARTHUR HATES . I am manager of the town department of Messrs. Charles Morgan and Co., wholesale stationers—the prisoner was in our employ in October, 1873, and left in October, 1874—he had no connection with our firm in November last, nor any authority to transact business on their behalf—this order does not some from our establishment—I believe the signature to be the prisoner's—I have seen him write a great many times when he was in our employ.

Cross-examined. Nothing was known against you while in our employment—I cannot swear positively that the order is in your writing, but I believe it is.

GUILTY . He also

PLEADED GUILTY to a previous conviction at this Court in April, 1878.— Fifteen Months' Imprisonment.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-109
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

109. HARRY CUTTING (27) , Feloniously killing and slaying James Henry on the high seas.



GEORGE CHALLENGER . I was cook and steward on the ship Coringa, a British North-American vessel—on 3rd November we were in the Channel off Start Point, on our voyage from New York to Antwerp—there were about 20 men in the ship—the captain's name was Robert Gibson, and prisoner was chief mate—Graham was the second mate—the prisoner was in command of the port watch, which consisted of John Backiers, William Konstead, James Henry, John O'Connor, a man called Bill, whose other name I do not know, Edward Macfie, and two others—on the 3rd November I came up on deck about 10.30, and saw the second mate fighting with a man named Mike Kearney—the captain was standing on the poop, about six yards from them—the prisoner was not on deck—I parted them—a few minutes afterwards Cutting came up on deck with this hatchet (produced)—at that time no one else on deck was armed—the captain told Kearney he was

going to put him in irons because he had threatened his life—Kearney said he would not go into irons, and tried to make his way forward, farther away from the captain—the captain followed him up, and told him he must put him in irons—O'Connor and Ronstead told the man not to go into irons—the captain then ordered the port watch below, but they did not go—the captain was going to put Kearney in irons, and had a revolver, which he held out in his hands—I saw Ronstead with a hatch-bar in his band—it is about six feet long and several inches broad—he was some distance from the captain, and could not have struck him without advancing—the prisoner came alongside the captain with the hatchet in his hand—the deceased told Kearney to go quietly into irons—Henry was then going towards the captain, having his hands on the waistbands of his trousers, holding his trousers up—he had nothing in his hand—I saw prisoner with the hatchet raised, and said "Mr. Cutting, what are you going to do with that hatchet!"—as I said that he advanced and struck Henry on the forehead with the blade—the blow cut him right through the bone—I heard the captain say "My God, what did you do that for!" as soon as he was struck—the captain took him to Graham's cabin—I assisted to sew up the wound—he remained in the cabin till he died, on the 6th—I did not hear Cutting make any answer to the captain's remark—there was no row after that—Kearney went into irons afterwards.

Cross-examined. The mate came from aft with the hatchet—Kearney was one of the starboard watch—Ronstead was holding the hatchbar over his head with both hands—Henry was before Ronstead, and both were facing towards the captain—Henry was not hitching up his trousers—prisoner was standing beside the captain, just a little behind—at the time the blow was struck the captain's face was turned forward—between 10.30 and 11 on the morning of the 13th October I was in my galley, when I heard a voice cry out "Oh!" and on running out saw a man lying on the chains by the foremast—I picked the man up and asked him what was the matter, but he did not say anything then—I saw O'Connor with a knife in his band, and he said to Cutting "If you hit me again I'll cut your liver out"—Henry was in the forecastle, close by O'Connor, and had a handspike in his hand—I signed the log containing the captain's record of what took place on November 3rd, but not that I witnessed all those things—at the time I parted the men who were fighting Cheshire had a marling-spike raised in his hand, and I asked him if he were going to strike me with it, and he denied it.

Re-examined. Cheshire had not got the marling-spike in his hand at the time prisoner struck Henry—on the 13th Connor complained of Cutting having struck him—Cutting shipped at New York, and O'Connor and Henry said the captain had brought him to beat the men—there was no further disturbance between the 13th October and 3rd November.

HENRY SKINNER . I was able seaman on board the Coringa—I joined the vessel at Liverpool in September—on the 3rd November I saw the fighting between Graham and Kearney and saw some of the port watch there—Challenger parted the men, both of whose faces were bleeding—they went to wash their faces, and when Kearney came back the captain said "I want to put you in irons for threatening to take my life three weeks ago"—Kearney said he did not, but the captain said he did, and came down from the poop into the cabin—when he came out of the cabin he had the irons in

his hand—Cutting was close to him with irons in his right hand and an axe in his left—the captain asked Kearney to go into irons, and he said he would not go—the mate then struck at him twice with the axe and he jumped back—the captain pointed his revolver at Kearney—by that time some of the port watch came out of the forecastle on deck, about seven or eight feet from the captain and prisoner, I heard one of the port watch say "Don't go in irons, Mike"—James Henry came walking aft towards the captain pulling up his pants, and I saw the prisoner reach over and strike Henry with the axe on the left side of the forehead—Henry had no weapon—he turned round when struck and went down on his knees—the captain said "My God, you have killed that man"—blood came, and he was carried aft and attended to—the captain and prisoner were the only men I saw with any weapon.

Cross-examined. After wo carried deceased out, the port watch went below, and Kearney went into irons—when the captain told Kearney he would put him in irons, he said he would not go—the prisoner was not there then.

JOHN BACKIERS . I am a native of Sweden and was able seaman on board the Coringa—I joined it at New York on November 3rd—I was asleep down below and was awakened by a noise—I went on deck and saw the second mate and Kearney fighting—I saw the captain come along from the poop with a belaying pin in his hand, but when he had got down two or three steps the fighting had ceased, and he turned back again—the second mate said to Kearney "Well not fight any more"—a short time afterwards I saw him with a carpenter's maul in his hands—about 15 minutes after I heard a noise again on deck, and when I was standing at the door I heard the captain say to Kearney "I am going to pnt you in irons"—the captain had a revolver in his left hand—the prisoner had a hammer in his left hand and a hatchet in the other—I saw Kearney run forward into the midst of the port watch, and saw the prisoner try to cut him—Henry was walking towards the captain and mate, about five feet from the captain and three feet from the mate—he said to Kearney "It would be best for you to go into irons"—I saw prisoner strike Henry with the axe—Bonstead had a natch bar—he was about five feet away from Henry when he was struck.

Cross-examined. I was one of the port watch—I did not hear the captain order the port watch below—I heard Konstead sing out, "Mike, don't go in irons"—he was the man who had the hatch-bar, and who led us—I did not go below until Henry was struck down—it was then all over, and the port watch at once went below—the carpenter's shop is between the forecastle and galley, and to come aft the port watch would pass the shop—I was not present when the crowbar, iron dog, and capstan bars were found on the door sill—I saw the mate lying down on the forecastle on the 13th October—O'Connor said if he struck him again he would cut his heart out—Henry was standing on the forecastle with a capstan-bar raised in his hands.

Re-examined. I did not see the dispute between O'Connor and prisoner—after the 13th October everything was quiet till the 3rd.

(The certificate of the registration of the Coringa was put in a British sailing vessel of Western Nova Scotia, registered tonnage 1,343 tons, length of vessel 193 feet.

Witnesses for the Defence.

THEODORE GRAHAM . I was second mate on the Coringa—I joined the

ship at Liverpool, and made the voyage to New York—at New York Cutting joined as first mate—at 10 o'clock on the morning of the 3rd Kearney came down from the look-out, and went into the port forecastle—then he came up aft and went round to the forward side of the deck on the starboard side—the port watch was below—I told Kearney to go to his work—he said "You son of a bitch, I will cut the belly out of you—I can lick you or any son of a bitch aft"—I said "What is the matter?" still he told me he would cut the belly out of me, and came towards me, and I struck him with my fist—he returned the blow; Challenger came and parted us—Kearney had something in his hand which felt like lead—it broke my nose and blacked my eye—the port watch had all come on deck then—their watch was below, and they had no right on deck till the one bell—I saw Cheshire swinging a marling-spike over his head when the steward struck him; then the captain appeared and ordered the port watch below, saying he would have no quarrelling on the slrip—Ronstead said he Was not green enough nor sleepy enough to go below—several others spoke—Kearney was blaspheming all the time—the captain told him he had logged him for threatening his life three weeks previously, and he would have him put in irons—Kearney said he did not care a——whether he was logged or not—Kearney said he would go in irons, and the captain went below to get them—Kearney went forward to wash himself, and I went below to my cabin to wash with the captain—Cutting was in his room driving tacks into a curtain with a hatchet—the captain told Cutting he wanted to put Kearney in irons for his abusive language and for threatening his life—the captain got the irons and gave them to the mate, and went up on deck followed by the mate and myself—when we got on deck the port watch were at the forecastle door—Kearney was in the middle of the main deck—the captain and mate advanced towards Kearney to put him in irons—Kearney ran in amongst the port watch and said he would not go in irons, and no son of a bitch should put him in irons—the captain followed on—the port watch were all singing out "Don't go in irons, Mike"—the captain reached out to take hold of Kearney, when Henry came running to him with both hand uplifted and endeavoured to grasp him—Ronstead was close behind Henry with an iron hatch-bar, 7 feet long, raised over his head—I sang out "Look out, captain, there's a man going to strke you with an iron bar—the mate was standing at the right of the captain, a little behind him—immediately I sung out prisoner struck Henry—the port watch were all standing singing out and halloaing, but as soon as the blow was struck they told Kearney to go in irons, and soon went below—I think if Cutting had not struck Henry, Ronstead would have killed the captain with the iron bar—I did not see the axe in the prisoner's hand till he struck Henry.

Cross-examined. I am not in the habit of striking the men on board the vessel—the irons were handcuffs, not leg-irons—the chief mate, myself, the steward, and carpenter were beside the captain—I did not see the prisoner strike at Kearney first; Roustead was the only man of the port watch I saw with any weapon—when the captain pointed the revolver at Kearney, Kearney told the captain to shoot away—I did not hear Henry tell Kearney he had better go in irons.

OTIS COGSWELL . I was carpenter on the Coringa—I joined at St. John's on November 3rd—I was at work amidships on the port side close to the second mate—Kearney came from the look-out and said to Graham "I understand that you and the captain's brother are going to beat me; but

neither you nor any of you can beat me"—the second mate ordered him away to his work, but he would not go, and said he would rip the d———belly out of him—the second mate then struck Kearney; Cheshire came up with a marling-spike in his hand—the steward came and parted them—I saw the port watch on deck and heard the captain tell them to go below—I went to my work when the row quieted; shortly afterwards I saw the captain come up out of the cabin followed by Cutting, and saw him hand a number of irons to Cutting—he called Kearney aft to go in irons, and Kearney asked what he wanted to put him in irons for—he replied "For threatening to take my life"—the port watch were still on deck—Kearney said he would not go in irons, and that he nor any other son of a bitch on that ship aft could put him in irons—he backed in amongst the port watch, and several of them, including O'Connor, told him not to go in irons—the captain drew his revolver on Kearney—I saw Ronatead running aft with a hatch-bar raised over his head and swearing he would split some son of a bitch down—I saw Henry come out off the forecastle, run aft, and make a rush at the captain with his arms up—the mate was a little behind the captain, and he lifted the hatchet and dealt Henry a blow on the head which stunned him—the port watch then appeared quieted and advised Kearney to go into irons—shortly after I went into my shop and found an iron crowbar taken from its place and laid on the door sill, and also an iron dog taken from beneath the bench and laid on the end of the bench by the door—the men coming from the port watch would pass that door—at the time the blow was struck I considered all our lives aft in the ship were in the most imminent danger—the things I have described were safe in their places in my shop about 15 minutes before the row.

Cross-examined. I was examined before the Naval Court on November. 10th, and Bonstead then asked me "When I took that hatchbar was it before or after the mate struck Henry," and I said "The excitement was so great that I could not swear positively whether it was before or after," but I now swear positively that I saw Honstead with the hatchbar before—it is clearer to my mind now—if the hatches were open the hatchbar would be lying on the chains—the weapons I spoke of were not taken out of the carpenter's shop.

Re-examined. I was examined before the Police Magistrate, and I then swore the same as now, that Ronstead had the hatchbar before Henry was struck.

THOMAS GIBSON . I am ordinary seaman on board the Coringa—my brother is the captain—I was on the ship on November 3rd—before the row between Kearney and the second mate, Kearney was on the look-out and I told him I was sent there to get the sinnet to go to work—he said if he was off the look-out he would kick me overboard and would kick my guts out—I got the sinnet and went into the second mate's-room to get two strands of lanyards, and when I came out I saw the second mate and Kearney fighting—Cheshire was swinging a marlingspike—I struck Kearney on the head with the strands of lanyards—the captain came out and said he would have no quarrelling on his ship, and the two men were parted—the captain said he would have him logged, and he said he did not care a d——whether he was logged or not—he refused to go to his work and the captain said he would put him in irons—he said "All right"—the captain went below for his irons, and

when he came back Kearney refused to go, saying he would not go in irons, and there were not enough sons of—on board to put him in irons—he walked towards the port watch—O'Connor and Ronstead told Kearney not to go into irons—the captain ordered them to go below, and Ronstead said he was not green enough nor sleepy enough to go below—the port watch were swearing and cursing amongst themselves—the captain followed Kearney with a revolver, and then Ronstead made a rush at him with a hatchbar raised over his head—Henry ran ahead of Ronstead with his hands just as if he was about to lay hold of the revolver, and then the mate struck him—I think the captain would have been killed if the mate had not struck Henry with the hatchet—I do not think the captain saw the man with the hatchbar.

Cross-examined. When the prisoner struck Henry the captain said "My God, what have you done V—I had not seen the axe until prisoner struck Henry—I did not see him use it towards Kearney—Ronstead was the only one of the port watch who had any weapon—I struck Kearney with the sinnet twice or three times as hard as I could.

ROBERT GIBSON . I am captain of the Coringa—I sailed with her from New York on the morning of the 3rd—I saw Kearney and Graham quarrelling, and ordered it to cease, and ordered the port watch below—they did not obey the order, and said they were not sleepy, or something like that—they urged Kearney on to give it to the second mate; I asked Kearney what he meant by creating such a disturbance in the ship—he said he was not raising any disturbance—I told him I had had him logged before for threatening my life—he said he did not care, and I told him I would put him in irons—he said "I will go in"—I said "All right," and went down to get the irons—as I was going down I heard them say that we could not put him in irons, or something like that—the mate was in his room, and I said to him "We must put that man in irons"—I got two or three pairs of irons, and put my revolver in my pocket; I passed the irons to prisoner, and took another pair as I was coming out of the cabin; prisoner followed me on deck—the port watch were all standing on the forecastle, and Kearney was down ait the poop by the mainmast—I called him to go in irons peacefully, and the port watch sung out to him not to go in irons—I followed him, and told them to go below, and two or three of them, especially Ronstead, remarked "We are not soft enough; we are not sleepy enough"—they did not go below; Kearney retreated into the port watch—I said "If you do not come I will shoot you"—he said "Shoot away," and I pointed my revolver at his legs; I was watching him—I heard some one say "Look out, captain!" and then I saw the prisoner strike Henry—Ronstead had a hatchbar in his hand—as soon as the blow was struck Ronstead gave in—I believe the whole of us were in danger, and that prisoner's intervention in my behalf at that moment was necessary—as chief officer it was his place to protect me.

Cross-examined. There were 20 men on board all told—14 sailors—I did not see the prisoner with the axe in his cabin—there were five of the men standing by me—I did not see Ronstead with the hatch bar till just as the blow was struck—my revolver has seven chambers; three loaded with ball cartridge—I suppose Kearney meant it in earnest when he said "Shoot away"—after the blow all was perfectly quiet—that settled them—the crew had never complained to me of the prisoner till 13th October, when they said we had brought this man on board to knock them about.

Re-examined. I did not bring him on board to beat anybody.

Prisoner's statement of the occurrence given before the Naval Court toot put in.



Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-110
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

110. DORA SULLIVAN (40) , Unlawfully uttering a medal resembling a sovereign. Mr. Lloyd Prosecuted.

ROBERT CANNON . I am a baker, of 64, High Street, Stratford—on 1s. December about 6 o'clock, the prisoner came in and asked for a quartern of bread, which came to 7d.—she tendered this medal (produced) head upwards—it appeared to be a sovereign, and I gave her 19s. 5d. change—as soon as she picked the change up I examined it, but she was gone very quickly—I followed with Hill, and found her half or threequarters of an hour after at her door in Owen Street, and said to the policeman "That is the woman"—she said "I know, and I have got the change to give you in my pocket"—I gave the medal to Hill, and gave the prisoner in custody.

JOHN HILL (Policeman K 100). On the evening of December 11 was on duty in High Street, Stratford, and went with Mr. Cannon to River Street, where the prisoner lives—she was standing at her door, and Cannon said "I give this woman in custody for tendering this, and saying it was a sovereign," giving me this medal—the prisoner said "Yes, I have got the change"—I counted it, and found 19s. 5 1/2 d.—before we got to the station the prisoner said "My husband found it. and gave it to me"—she afterwards said "My son found it, and gave it to my husband"—at the station when she was charged she said "I got it at the Marsh Grate public-house on Saturday night"—that is right opposite—I had received information about another medal, but I said nothing—she gave me a good sixpence at the station before she was searched.

ELIZABETH COLLINS . I am the wife of William Collins, a fishmonger, of 99, High Street, Stratford—on 1st December about 6.30 p.m. the prisoner came in for two pounds of sprats, which came to 2d., and gave me a coin, saying "It is a sovereign"—I believed it to be a sovereign, and gave her 19s. 10d. change, and she left—I then examined it, and found it was not a sovereign, and went after her and said "This is not a sovereign"—she said "What are you talking about; I took it for my husband's wages on Saturday night"—I went with the prisoner into Mr. Woolf's shop, and asked him in her presence whether the coin was good, and gave it to him—the prisoner repeated that she took it for her husband's wages on Saturday night at the Marsh Gate public-house—she held her hand out, and I took from it 19s. 10d., and gave her the medal back—I noticed that it was the same as the other—it is light—I did not see a man on horseback on it—I did not look at both sides; I only had just a chance of getting out of the shop to catch her—our house is nearly opposite No. 64—the prisoner lives close by.

JAMES GALLAHER (Police Inspector K), On 1st December about 7.30 Hill and the two witnesses brought the prisoner to the station—I told her

the chargr—she said "My husband received it at the Marsh Gate but I know I did wrong in asking for change a second time"—it is the same piece—she said that she first went to Collins's, and afterwards to Cannon's! By the Court. What she said was "My husband received it as wages at the Marsh Gate public-house"—I said "I can well understand you not knowing it the first time, but the second time I cannot understand how von did not know it"—she said "I know I did wrong in asking for chance a second time—she did not mention Cannon's name; she said "a second time."

JOHN HILL (Re-examined). I received information from Elizabeth Collins the first time not in the presence of the prisoner—I understand that it was tendered to her first, and she was present when I saw the prisoner outside Mr. Cannon's house, and she said to her "You came to my shop and got it changed, and I went after you."

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This is a brass medal; they are used for whist. markers—it is not worth a farthing—it is the same size as a sovereign and it has the knerled edge and the head of the Queen on it.

GUILTY . Recommended to mercy by the Jury.— Three Months' Imprisonment.


Before Mr. Recorder.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-111
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

Related Material

111. JOHN WOOD (21) , Unlawfully wounding Christopher George Butler.

MR. FULTON Prosecuted.

CHRISTOPHER GEORGE BUTLER . I live in Granville Grove, Deptford—the prisoner was staying in the house; he did not lodge there—he came there with the intention of being married—he caused a great deal of disturbance between himself and the person he was living with—my wife took her in as a friend, as I believe she was in trouble—on 1st December the prisoner promised to leave at 12.45, before I came home from work, and said he would not let the woman cause any disturbance—when I came home I found him sitting on a chair before the fire—I said "You have not done as you promised; you have not left"—he said "No; and I don't intend '—there were two bundles by the side of him, and I took one in each hand to remove out of the room—I got to the door with them, and he rushed at me—I put him back with my right hand, setting a bundle down to push him back, and before I could get the bundle again I felt a terrific blow on the side of my head as I was stooping to pick the bundle up again—it was rather dark (near 5 o'clock), and I could not see how it was done—we closed; I thought I had him by the throat, but instead of that I pinned his right arm against his side, and I felt several small blows strike me five or six times on the back of my head—he got away from me; my rightarm was disabled, and he slipped from my grasp and got to the staircase—I went after him and caught him on the stairs; he was trying to get down, and I was trying to hold him—we got to the front door; he had a large hammer in his hand; he slung it over his head, and said "Now come on, I will settle you"—the constable came at that exact moment, and received on his right hand the blow that would have fallen on my head or arm—I

then took the hammer from his hand and charged him, and I went to a doctor and had my head and arm examined—the hammer was mine.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I don't know whether you had got your things ready to go—I did not put my fist in your face and say I would have you out—I did not tuck up my sleeves, or threaten or assault you—when you took the bundle out of mv hand I pushed you back, and you said "That is crockery, don't break it"—I did not rush at you and catch you by the side of your head—I did not fall down and cut my head open—I did not fall down at all.

STEPHEN PALMER (Policeman R 343). On 1st December I was called to Granville Grove, and saw the prisoner and prosecutor—the prisoner rushed ont of the door first, and the prosecutor came afterwards, bleeding—the prisoner had a hammer in his hand, and was swinging it about, saying "Come on"—I took it from him—he said, "I gave him a slight tap"—I examined the hammer—there was a hole in the hat which the prosecutor was wearing—this is the hammer and the hat (produced)—there is a dent in the hat now—the prosecutor was covered with blood—he had his coat off—they were both sober.

CHRISTOPHER GEORGE BUTLER (Re-examined). I had my hat on at the time—I always take off my coat the first thing on coming indoors.

EBENEZER DENHAM ALDEN . I am a surgeon, of 120, High Street, Deptford—on 1st September about 7 p.m. I was called to examine the prosecutor—I found a wound on the left side of his head and two bruises, both contused and incised—they might have been caused by a blow from a hammer like this—it is always uncertain how these wounds will turn out—I saw him the following morning, and I then thought the wound would be serious—his circulation was excited, bis pulse rapid, and he had a certain amount of giddiness—the symptoms passed over, and he went on very well—he had a bruise on the right arm—it must have been a heavy blow—it might have been caused by a weapon of this kind, but I should think through the coat or shirt-sleeves, not directly on the skin.

Prisoner's Defence. He said he would turn me out. I said "You have no cause to do that; I will go quietly if you will wait." He said he would not wait, he would fetch the police. He caught up the bundle, and I caught hold of the hammer. I did not know what it was at the time. I gave him a tap on the arm, and that was all I did.

GUILTY of an assault under great provocation.Two Months' Imprisonment.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-112
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Not Guilty > unknown

Related Material

112. EDWARD WHITE (54) and LOUISA WHITE (43) , Burglary (in Surrey ) in the dwelling-house of Edward James Southwell, and stealing two ladles and other articles, his property.

MR. CUNNINGHAM Prosecuted.

EDWARD JAMES SOUTHWELL . I am a clerk, living at Netherton House, Kidbrook Park, Blackbeath—on the night of 22nd October I retired to bed somewhere after 12 o'clock, leaving my brother William Henry Southwell up, and two servants—I was called up at 7 the following morning by the servants—I went downstairs and found the window in the hall at the foot of the stairs open about 2 inches—the hasp of the window had been wrenched and broken inside the window with a spade, which had been used to wrench it open—a large stone vase which stood inside, 14 feet high, was

pushed away so as to help the descent into the house—the dining-room was in confusion, and things were removed from it into the drawing-room—my writing-desk was broken open, and the poker and shovel were on the settee in the centre of the room—the shovel was bent nearly doable—I compared it with the marks on the writing-desk, and they corresponded—I missed some dessert knives and forks, fish knives and forks, 13 spoons, my umbrella, boots, and several other things—these (produced) are my property, and what I missed that morning—there are several other articles missing which have not been found—the value of that which has been found is about 5l. or 6l.—outside the house were some boards, partially imbedded in the ground, and resting close to the window at which the entrance was made—that window was shut and locked when I went to bed—it is a window which was never opened above once or twice a year—the knives and forks were kept in two boxes—both the boxes were on the dining-room table—they had only opened the top tray—the bottom part was full—that had evidently been overlooked—I do'not know the prisoners.

GEORGE HILSTEAD . I am assistant to Messrs.' Adams and Hilstead, pawnbrokers, 25, High Street, Boro'—I produce a spoon and reading-glaa pawned on 24th October, I believe by the female prisoner, in the name of Wilson, 9, Blackman Street—I produce a duplicate of the ticket I gave her—I don't remember seeing her before.

GEORGE HARVEY (Police Sergeant M). On the night of 31st October I went with Inspector Fox and Sergeant Walsh to 42, Bed Cross Street, Boro'—it was a shoemaker's shop of the lowest degree, which you entered directly from the street—we found the male prisoner and another man sitting in the shop—Fox asked the prisoner if his name was White—he said "Yes"—he said "You have, been pledging some plated articles at different pawn-shops; if you have any stolen property in the house you had better give it up"—I did not bear him make any reply—I went and stood at the back door—the male prisoner and the inspector went upstairs—I went back into the shop, and stood there near the front door—the female prisoner came downstairs and caught hold of the front door to pull it open to go out—she merely had a loose dress on over her chemise—she walked through the shop hurriedly towards me and attempted to open the door—I stopped her and said "Where are you going? you will not go out; you must stop"—I caught hold of her—she struggled to get out, 1 struggled to keep her in—I sat her down in a chair—I saw a piece of paper protruding from her bosom, inside her dress—I took it out, and it contained these knives, forks, and spoons produced—I called for Walsh, and he came down—she put her hand in her pocket, and I heard some paper tearing in her pocket—I pulled her hand out, and some paper came oat with it and some pawn-tickets, one of them relating to the spoon and reading-glass produced by Hilstead, and which has been identified by the prosecutor.

Edward White's Defence. What my wife did was entirely under my direction. She had nothing to do with it at all.

Louisa White's Defence. I came downstairs with the spoons and forks I had them in two large parcels. I did not speak a word. I was making towards the door to go to the other side of the road to the man who brought them, to bring him over to prove that he was the owner of them. The policeman would not allow me to go out, consequently the man

escaped. The things were not pledged by me. I had nothing to do with the pledging. The man was standing at the door opposite half an hour before.



15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-113
VerdictsGuilty > unknown; Not Guilty > unknown; Not Guilty > unknown

Related Material

113. EDWARD WHITE and LOUISA WHITE were again indicted for a burglary in the dwelling-house of Karl Hesman Kopte, and stealing therein a sugar sifter and other articles.

MR. CUNNINGHAM Prosecuted.

CLARA LARTER . I am cook to Mr. Kopte, of Claremont Park, West Dulwich—on Sunday, 5th October, I went to bed at 10.30—I secured the house as usual, and made all fast;—I left Mr. Kopte sitting up—next rooming when I came down to the kitchen I saw that the bar of the back door leading into the garden had been taken down—that had been fastened with a screw the night before—the door of the lavatory was standing open and the window was open—I had fastened it the night before—it was pulled half down, so that anybody could get in—the kitchen drawers were all open—I missed my purse, containing 4s. or 6s., and a collar fastener—I went into the dining-room and missed several things from there—I spoke to a fellow-servant, and called Mr. Kopte up abont 7.30.

KARL HERMAN KOPTE . I am a merchant, living at Claremont, Alleyne Park, West Dulwich—on 5th October I went to bed about 11.30—I was the last person up in the house—I did not see that the window was secured—I was called up next morning by Clara Larter—on going down I observed that everything in the dining-room was topsy-turvy—the coats from the front ball had been taken into the dining-room and strewn all about the place; the dra era had been ransacked, and hats and umbrellas were on the dining-room table, and a pair of blacking-brushes from downstairs—I missed the sugar-tongs, sugar-sifter, two opera-glasses, a goblet, a top coat, umbrella, silver-plated pipe, and various odds and ends—these sugar-tongs and sifter, these opera-glasses and goblet produced are my property, and what I missed that morning—the value of them is about 6l. or 7l. Robert Winch. I am assistant to Mr. Layman, pawnbroker, 25, Blackpan Street; Borough—I produce these silver sugar tongs and sifter; they were pledged at our shop on 7th October for 15s. by the male prisoner, and these opera glasses on the 11th for 8s. in the name of Lawrence, 128, Great Suffolk Street.

Cross-examined by Edward White. You have pledged at our shop three or four times; it has always been for one man; I have heard that you pledged for seven or eight years; things bought in the trade—you only pawned for one gentleman, and he has always been with you—you only pledged' four times for him that I know of—I have known you seven or eight years—you pledged these things in the name of Lawrence—when you pledged on former occasions you gave the name of White.

HENRY MOORE . I am assistant to Mr. Holman, pawnbroker—this pair of opera glasses were pledged at our place on 8th October for 6s. by the male prisoner in the name of James White, Red Cross Street—I was not present; I produce the duplicate.

Cross-examined by Edtoard White. I have known you for three years; you have pledged for other people; friends of yours, as well as your own

property—if you pawned for other people you pawned in their names—I knew your address, and where you could be found.

GEORGE HARVEY (Police Sergeant M). I accompanied Inspector Fox and Sergeant Walsh on the night of 31st October to 42, Red Cross Street, Borough, and saw the two prisoners there—I searched the place—amongst other things I found two duplicates in a pocket-book on a shelf in the shop where the male prisoner was sitting; one of them relates to the opera glasses pledged at Mr. Holman's, and the other to the sugar tongs and spoons pledged at Mr. Layman's—in a cupboard upstairs this goblet was found in the room where the prisoners slept.

Cross-examined. There was no obstacle to our searching the house—it was impossible for you to throw away any; we were too strong—I did not see you give up anything; what we have here wo found on searching the house.

MATTHEW FOX (Police Inspector M). In conseque which I received from Mr. Winch, the pawnbroker's I two addresses that he gave me; 128, Suffolk Street, whie and to another address that was also false—I ultimately Street with Walsh and Harvey—I saw the male prisoner in the shop: I asked the prisoner if his name was Jol

robberies or housebreakings. I have been well known in the neighbourhood for the last 10 years. This affair has destroyed my home and family. I know nothing about these robberies. I certainly was in possession of the property, but I sold none of it; it was all pawned. If I had known it was stolen property I could have got more for it.

EDWARD WHITE— GUILTY .— Eighteen Month' Imprisonment.


There was another indictment against the prisoners for a like offence. As to LOUISA WHITE a verdict of

NOT GUILTY was taken.


Before Baron Pollock.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-114
VerdictsGuilty > unknown; Not Guilty > unknown; Not Guilty > no evidence
SentencesImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

114. VINCENT YANKOWSKI (56), ALBERT YANKOWSKI (63), THEOPHILE DOMBROWSKI (37), MARIA SEYMOUR (39), and ANNIE GIBBARD (21), were indicted for feloniously and without lawful excuse having in their custody and possession 7,000 papers, upon each of which was made and engraved a note for three roubles of the Empire of Russia.

MESSRS. POLAND and HORACE AVORY Prosecuted; MR. PURCELL appeared for Vincent and Albert Yankowski; MR. GREENFIELD for Dombrowski; MESSRS. KEITH FRITH and SPRATT for Seymour; and MR. RIBTON for Gibbard.

JOSEPH LOWENWURTH (This icitness understanding English imperfectly his evidence was partly given through an interpreter). I speak English a little—I am a coffee-house keeper, in partnership with a man named Wiener, at 154, Cannon Street Road, Commercial Road East—on 14th October last two strangers, Poles, came to lodge with me—shortly after they came they gave me a letter, which I took to 171, Church Road, Islington—I went there, but did not find the person to whom the letter was addressed—I went there again by their direction, and I saw an old woman, whom I left it with—the next day Dombrowski came and asked where the two Poles were—I showed him into the room where they were, and he remained some time and then left—on the following morning a box came by the parcels delivery, and the two Poles went away with it—after they had gone a letter came—Dombrowski afterwards took the letter back with him—I have not seen it since—in consequence of that letter I went to him in Church Road, Islington, and met him—he told me that being a coffee-house keeper different people came to my plnce—he spoke in Polish—he also told me that I could get rich by the'affair, and that the others had got plenty of money through it—before this he told me that he had sent the two Poles false rouble notes—I said I should look out for some' customers—I then went away, telling him that if he wanted to write to me I would answer him—he gave me his address, "Taffe, Church Road, Islington"—on 18th October I wrote to him, and received this letter, marked A, the same evening—it stated "I shall wait for you to-morrow, Sunday, and Monday, 11 o'clock in the morning; I say Monday, as I do not know if you will receive this letter to-day"—in consequence of that I and "Wiener went to the Nag's Head, Holloway Road, where we met Dombrowski—I told him that I had a buyer for the rouble notes—he siid

"How much does he want to buy?"—I said "About 100l.," and added that the customer wanted twenty five-rouble notes and three-rouble note, upon which he said he only had three-rouble notes, and that if I wanted twenty-five-rouble notes he would find me a party who would send me such; that I must take care not to bring police officers—I asked him to send me some samples, and he said "I will send you some"—all this took place on the Saturday evening, 18th October, and on Monday, the 20th, I went with my partner to Scotland Yard and gave information, and from that time I acted under their directions—that same evening I met Dombrowski again about 8 o'clock at the Nag's Head—he asked me whether I had received the samples which he sent—I had received them—he told me to be very careful, that there were two or three detectives that followed everybody, and mentioned three names, the names of Spitz and Montag—I cannot recollect the third name—this letter, marked B, I received on the Monday—it states "I have written that one sends you two, and I shall see you to-morrow"—I also received these two three-rouble notes (produced) in an envelope, dated 21st October, and took them to Inspector Greenham, at Scotland Yard—I then wrote to Dombrowski this letter (produced) of 21st October, and received a reply on the back of it in German.

CHARLES VON TORNOW (Inspector, Criminal Investigation Department). I am acquainted with the German language, and have made a translation of these letters: (read) "Dear Sir,—I have not received this day the letter which I expected to receive from you, therefore I beg of you to inform me by return, and mention the place where we may confer together about this matter. Respectfully yours, Joseph Lowenwurth." This is the reply to the above: "22, 10, 79.—I have written to you yesterday, and I hope that you have received the things samples or you should receive them either to-day or to-morrow. I shall expect to see you to-morrow at 11 o'clock, but I hope this will be the last time, as I cannot lose my time for nothing."

JOSEPH LOWENWURTH (continued). The envelope was addressed to me at my coffee-house—I also took that letter to Scotland Yard and gave it to Inspector Greenham on that same day, the 22nd—on the 23rd I went with the inspectors to the Russian Embassy——I there saw Mr. Bartholomei, the Chancellor of the Embassy—on my return home on the 23rd I found this letter or envelope for me (produced), containing these two three-rouble notes, samples; they were wrapped up as they are now, in this piece of paper—I took them to Inspector Greenham—that same evening I went with my partner Wiener and the two inspectors to the Highbury Railway-station—my partner and I were both searched by the inspectors—Greenham then gave me two 5l. Bank of England notes, and I went with my partner to the Nag's Head, Holloway Road—I there met Dombrowski—my partner was at a distance, and did not hear what passed—Dombrowski asked me whether I had received the samples; I said yes—he said "Have you brought some money"—I said yes, and I took out the two 5l. notes and gave him; they were the same that Greenham had given me-Dombrowski said he did not like to take so little—I told him they were only for samples, then I would give him some more—he then said he would send me by post to my house, but not in my own name, three-rouble notes for the 10l.; he said he would send me 103 roubles, at 25 per cent, that he would send me three times more than the value of the money I gave him; they were to be sent in the name of Chaim Haipern—he asked me the name of the customer, and I told him Chaim

Haipern—he said that I should not come any more with little money, only the one with 100l.—he asked me whether I was positive the customer was a person from Russia—I told him yes—he asked whether he spoke English; I said no—I then left him, and was joined by the inspectors—on the morning of the 25th I received this paper by post (produced), addressed in the name of Chaim Haipern—I went with my partner and gave it to Inspector Marshall at Scotland Yard—I had not opened it at that time—next morning I went again to Scotland Yard, and saw the parcel opened by Mr. Greenham, in the presence of Marshall and Mr. Wiener; it contained 103 rouble papers, each for three roubles—on 27th October I met Inspectors Greenham and Marshall again at Hollo way, and Greenham gave me 15l. in gold—shortly afterwards I met Dombrowski—he asked whether the parcel had arrived—I said yes—he said "Do you bring any money"—I said yes, and I gave him the 15l.—he said "No, such a small business I do not do"—I old him to give me 15l. worth and then I should bring him some more—he said "I don't want to do such a small business"—I said "Where are the 25 rouble notes"—he said "Give me 2l. and I will send you some"—I gave him 2l., and said "Give me your address, it is already torn, please give me another"—he then stood close to a lamp and wrote this in pencil "A. Taffe, 171, Church Road, Islington, N."—I afterwards wrote to him and received these two letters, G and H, in reply (These were translated by Von Tornow as follows: G. "November 4th, I shall expect you to-night for the last time, and must finish this business, and you may inform your friend that I shall not take any money if you bring me 500; you may believe me. Take this letter with you." H, "November 5th, You may see me tomorrow morning at 11 o'clock.") On 5th November I met Dombrowski again near the Nag's Head, and while I was speaking to him he was taken into custody by Greenham—I knew his name was Dombrowski, but he wanted me to address him in the name of Taffe.

Cross-examined by MR. GREENFIELD. I have been in England nine years—I first saw Dombrowski on 14th or 15th October—when he first told me to get him some customer he told me his name was Dombrowski, but to address him as Taffe—that was on the first day I saw him—Iam an Austrian Pole from Galicia—I do not know that Dombrowski belongs to one of the most ancient and noble families in Poland; how can I know that?—I knew nothing about him before 14th October—the letter the two Poles gave me was addressed in the name of Taffe—it was after the two Poles came to my house that I first saw Dombrowski; he came to ask "for the two Poles that sent me a letter from this place"—he did not give his name then—I was not acquainted with those Poles before—I can't tell whether they were gentlemen or workmen—they stopped in my house two days, I think—I don't know whether they were refugees—when the box arrived on the 16th the two Poles took it, paid their bills, and went away—after they had left Dombrowski wrote to me—he afterwards took his letter back—he first used the words, "false notes"—I cannot speak Polish well; our conversation was more in German than Polish; the first conversation was part in one and part in the other—he told me that he would send me false money—he promised to send me some false money, and it was spoken about that if anybody was arrested in Russia with this false money it would be as dangerous as in England—Dombrowski said that three people were taken up about false money abroad, and he sent money there to save them—he

told me that he made money and he sold money, and he would make me a rich man—he told me his name was Dombrowski and I knew the name before—nothing was said about political matters—immediately on his offering me these notes I agreed to accept them—I communicated with the police on the 20th, I think, and what they instructed me that I have done—I wanted to find out before I communicated with the police what he was, and I promised to write to him on Saturday or Sunday—I wrote to him so that he should answer me before I went to the police, so that I should not recommend a fool—I have never been a witness against any of my brother Poles before either here or abroad—I was at the Embassy of Russia between the 16th and the 20th, and from the 20th I acted under the instructions of the police—I do not recollect that I received any samples of false money up to the 20th, but all I have received I have delivered in Scotland Yard—I received the two 5l. notes from Mr. Greenham; I did not see them marked, and am not aware of there being any mark on them (notes produced)—I know good notes when I see them; they were good English notes—the inspector advised me to give those good notes for samples of false notes worth nothing at all—I gave him the money, and he sent me afterwards the Russian rouble notes—I only saw Dombrowski for the first time, and knew nothing of him beyond his own statement—I was anxious to get the false notes from him because Mr. Greenham and Mr. Marshall told me to do so—nobody heard the conversation with Dombrowski; he called me aside—I said, "Perhaps you want the buyer present"—he said, "No, I will have nobody but you"—I have never passed by any other name in any country; I never passed by the name of Levy—I have received no promise of remuneration from the Russian Government, or from the police, if I convict these men—I have carried out the scheme from the duty which a man man ought to do when he finds such a thing.

LUDWIG WIENER . I am partner with Mr. Lowenwurth; we keep ft coffee-house—I have been there three months—in October my partner made a communication to me, after which I went with him on different occasions to Holloway, where I saw Dombrowski each time, but did not speak to him—he would not see anybody—I kept behind him, and watched where he went—I saw my partner meet Dombrowski three times, and on 20th October I went with my partner to Scotland Yard, and we both gave information to the police.

GEORGE GREENHAM (Police Inspector). On 20th October Lowenwurth and Wiener came to Scotland Yard, and made a communication to me and Marshall—I gave them instructions, and from time to time Lowenworth communicated with me—he brought me the envelope marked A on the 20th, and on the same day I saw him meet Dombrowski opposite the Nag's Head, Holloway Road—I was watching in plain clothes—he called at Scotland Yard on the Wednesday, and brought me the letter and envelope, marked B, containing the three-rouble notes produced—I told him again what to do—on Thursday the 23rd he brought me another letter and envelope marked C, and I went to the Russian Embassy, and saw the Chancellor, M. Bartholomei—I received two 5l. notes there, Nos. 77132, March 22nd, 1879, and 53921, March 29th, 1879, which I afterwards gave to Lowenworth, and went with him and his partner the same night to Holloway Road—I searched him first to see that he had no other notes—I saw him meet Dombrowski, and have an interview with him—when he came back I

searched him again, and he had no notes—I had never lost sight of him—on the same day I received from Lowenwurth the paper marked D containing two three-rouble notes—on 24th October Lowenwurth and his partner came to Scotland Yard, and I had received from Inspector Marshall a parcel addressed to Chaim Haipern, 155, Commercial Road East, which I opened next day, and it contained 103 rouble notes—I afterwards saw Dombrowski at Holloway—I knew where he lived before, 27, Sussex Road, Seven Sisters Road, Holloway, which is about 150 yards from the Eaglet—on 5th November I went to Holloway, and saw Lowenwurth speak to Dombrowski—I then said to Dombrowski "We are police officers, and I am going to arrest you for uttering 103 forged Russian rouble notes to Lowenwurth"—he said "I think you make a mistake this time," and pointing to Lowenwurth he said "He induced me to do it; I suppose to gave information"—this was about 11.30 am.—I took him to Clerkenwell Police-station, where he was detained—I went to 29, Arlington Road, Tulse Hill with a search warrant—Marshall knocked at the door, a woman opened it, and Mrs. Seymour was called, and came downstairs—I did not know her—I said "Can you tell me from whom you received the 5l. note that you changed at Mr. Martin's round the corner?"—she said "I did not change any note"—I sent Marshall round to Mr. Martin in her presence—I said "We are police officers, and I hold a search warrant to search the house; who is in the house?"—she said "Nobody but me, the woman in the kitchen, and the baby upstairs"—Dowdell had gone upstairs, and I heard him calling to me to go up; I tried to go up, but Mrs. Seymour held the bannisters, and prevented me, saying "There is nobody upstairs but my baby"—I pushed by her, went up to the front room first-floor, and found Dowdell there, and the two Yankowskis facing him—there was a fire in the room, and some paper burning in the grate—Mrs. Seymour followed me up, and came into the room, and I read the search warrant to them—Vincent threatened me, and was very excited, but did not touch me—I went upstairs, and on the second floor I found two rooms with the doors locked—I went downstairs again, and asked Mrs. Seymour to open them—she said "I won't"—I told her if she did not I should smash the doors in—she said "I shan't do it"—I went to the second floor with Marshall, forced the front room door open, and found a large number of three-rouble notes laid on the floor for drying—I then broke open the second door, and found a printing press in working order with a good three-rouble note on it, and a copperplate on it with the engraving of part of a note—I found a quantity of plant, and two stamps, one with a Russian name on it, the same I found on other notes in the front room, and the same as those in the packet addressed to Chaim Haipern—I made a list of all the things found in these rooms; this is it (produced); this book was found on the mantelpiece in the back room (This was in French "on the art of engraving")—I saw there parts of the engraving of the 1874 and 1878 notes; a lot of paper ready for printing, and paper with the water mark and parts of notes printed on it—I took some of the notes down into the room where the prisoners were, and Vincent Yankowski said "These gentlemens who belongs to the rooms upstairs are gone out"—there were no signs of any one living there, nothing but the forged paper and the plant—they were then taken to Lambeth Police-station, and Dombrowski was taken, and placed in the dock with them; they appeared friendly, and talked together in a language I could

not understand, Polish I believe; Vincent said to me at the house "Do you know Thompson?—I said "Yes; do you?"—he said "Yes, he took me in custody, and made a mistake, and you are making a mistake now"—the notes altogether were 7,000—I found in the parlour a rent-book of Mr. Mitchel to M. Seymour for two top rooms, 1879, but no date—I produce all the other letters and papers which Mr. Lowenwurth received—I have searched for the keys of the top rooms, but cannot find them—Annie Gibbard came to the house next day when we were completing the search, and made a statement to me; I wrote it down, and she signed it, and afterwards, in consequence of what she said, I went with her to the House of Detention on the 7th; she was shown the different cells, and when she came to Vincent Yankowski's cell she spoke to the warder—I think he was near enough to hear what she said—I asked her if she knew him; she said "Yes"—I said "Who is he?"—she said "Mr. Mitchell"—I don't think he made any reply—she had previously given me a description, in consequence of which I took her to the House of Detention, and afterwards to the solicitor's office to make a full statement—I know a person named Montag; he was a witness last March in a ease relating to some forged rouble notes—he came over from Russia, and assisted the police when certain people were tried at this Court; he gave evidence at the police-court and here—there was a second man named Symkiewitz—there was, I understand, a man named Spitz, a former agent of the Russian Government—all the materials are here, plates and all, they have been shown to an expert—I found in Dombrowski's pocket-book this receipt for a registered letter to "Miss Davis, 25, Liverpool Street, Walworth—it bears the post-office stamp of November 4.

Cross-examined by MR. PURCELL, I found, this rent-book in the land-lord's room—I did not hear Albert Yankowski say "I have only come here on a visit to my brother;" I don't think I was there—I do not know Hamilton Terrace, Sydenham or Norwood—I am not aware that Albert Yankowski lived there—I accompanied Gibbard to the cells and hod some conversation with her before she got there—I did not meet her coming out of the House of Detention, she was outside talking to Inspector Dowdell—I am not aware whether she had come out—I did not take her to the cells and say "Who is he V she stopped and spoke to the warder, and there was another warder between her and me; I requested that especially so that there should not be any misunderstanding—I said "Who is he?" and she said "Mr. Mitchell"—I took her to the solicitor and then to the police-court.

Cross-examined by MR. GREENFIELD. I knew Dombrowski before 15th October—I am not aware that he belongs to an ancient Polish family, or that he. was repeatedly mixed up in the politics of Russia—I am aware that he was in the siege of Paris and that his brother was killed during the siege—I am not aware that during the late war he was employed by the Admiralty to translate documents—I have only known Mr. Lowenwurth and his partner since 20th October—I have not made inquiries about the character of their coffee-house; I have not been there—I have been engaged in other cases of Russian notes—Dombrowski has been long suspected in connection with Russian rouble note forgeries, but I am not aware that he has been under the surveillance of foreign detectives owing to his political connections—it was known on 20th October that he was suspected; we

received information in our office through the Russian Embassy 12 or 14 months ago—Mr. Lowenwurth was the first person who gave us information about Dombrowski as to this particular matter—all I can say is that he was suspected by the Russian Embassy of making forged Russian notes and dealing in them—I think we had information during those 12 months before Lowenwurth came; not to me, but I think some of our officials had it—lots of papers were found on Dombrowski which I have got here just as I found them—I have read some of them—one is a commission in the National Guard of Paris during the siege—he was a colonel in the Commune, and before that he was I believe fighting in the National Guard and held a high position—I am not aware of any special reward given by the Russian Government to witnesses and others engaged in these inquiries if a conviction is obtained, or if information is given—I had a handsome present two years ago after the termination of the last inquiry; I had a watch and chain—I am not aware that handsome presents were made to everybody engaged in the prosecution.

Cross-examined by MR. FRITH. I had not seen Mrs. Seymour before the day I went to her house—nothing is known against her to my knowledge up to this charge—I was not present when the woman opened the door—I was not in uniform—we said that we were police officers, and I read the warrant—I did not ask her anything about her family, I said "Is there anybody else in the house?"—she held the bannisters with both hands, but I pushed by her—she came upstairs after me but said nothing—afterwards Goodenough came and failed to identify her as the person changing the 5l. note, and then she said "I did not change it"—I have made inquiries, but know nothing about the two Poles—we first said that We were police officers immediately after Goodenough came in.

Re-examined. Dombrowski has lived at 27, Sussex Road, Holloway, two or three years—I did not know 171, Church Road at that time, that is about a mile and a half from Sussex Road—I am the officer who had a case here of six or eight men for having Russian notes; a large seizure was made and I received the present for the attention I paid to the case—the authorities of Scotland Yard are applied to as to whether we are allowed to receive a present, and the Commissioner gives his sanction if he thinks fit—I had permission to receive the watch and chain.

JOHN DOWDELL (Police Inspector, Scotland Yard). I was with Greenham when Dombrowski was taken—I afterwards went with him to 29, Arlington Road—I had not searched Dombrowski—I said to Mrs. Seymour "Have you any one in the house I have you any men?" she said "No, no one but my child and the woman"—I heard some noise and walked from the room to go upstairs, and she said "No you shan't;" but I went up to the firstfloor front room, where I found the two Yankowskis standing in front of a fire—some paper was burning, and Vincent was stooping with his hand towards the fire—I rushed across the room, took off my hat, and tried to knock some paper which was burning in the grate—I then took hold of the two, one with each hand, and pulled them from the fireplace—Vincent raised his fist and said "I can smash you"—I said "I am a police officer, and you had better not"—I called out to Greenham "They are burning some paper"—he came up after some time; I believe he had some difficulty in getting up—they both had on slippers and old coats, as if they were working—I could not sec the papers which were blazing, but Vincent afterwards picked

up some of the ashes and showed me—I said "Let me look at your hands"—he put them up, and I saw that they were coloured; I knew at once what that meant—it was as if he had been using acids—his right hand only was stained—I took charge of the two men and the woman—Vincent said "The back room is my bedroom," and that the other room was Mrs. Seymour's—Vincent's clothes were in the front room, not in the room he pointed out as his bedroom—Albert's coat and hat and a stick, or something of the kind, were down in the parlour, and I think his boots; Inspector Marshall found them—I think Inspector Greenham showed me a receipt for a registered letter, but I do not think I saw it found.

Cross-examined by MR. PURCELL. I think Marshall said at the police-court that the men were without their coats—Vincent's coat was older than Albert's—the prosecution there was conducted by Mr. Wontner—I did not say anything there about the discoloured hands—I have mentioned it before, but not in evidence—I believe Vincent to bo a metal cutter, from his own statement that night—we paid this visit about 3.15 p.m.—he said that he worked at one place for 20 years, but I did not understand where—he does not speak English very well—I do not remember that he mentioned Messrs. Foxall, of Hampetead Road—I have since ascertained that he worked for Farmer and Cotteroll eight or nine years ago—their address was not given me in that conversation; perhaps it would be unfair to mention when I obtained it—he did not say that the appearance to his hands had been caused by metal cutting—when he said "I can smash you "I had not told him that I was a police officer; I ran suddenly into the room—no violence was used—he threatened me after that, and he certainly rose his hand, evidently in a violent temper.

Cross-examined by MR. GREENFIELD. I knew Dombrowski before—I was not aware that he was employed by the Admiralty as a translator.

Cross'examined by MR. FRITH. We told Mrs. Seymour inside the house and before I went upstairs that we were police officers.

Cross-examined by MR. PURCELL, When I went to the House of Detention I found Gibbard outside—I was there waiting—she had come there to eee her sister.

HENRY MARSHALL (Police Inspector, Scotland Yard). I was present when Dombrowski was taken—I afterwards went to the house and was sent round to fetch Mr. Goodenough, who came, but did not identify Mrs. Seymour or Mrs. Sullivan as the person who changed the note—I afterwards went upstairs—Albert Yankowski said that he had simply paid a visit to his brother, meaning Vincent—when Albert was taken away wc had to send to the front parlour for his coat, hat, stick, and a cigar which he had left there—I conveyed Dombrowski in a cab from King's Cross to Kennington Lane—Dowdell told him at King's Cross that tho Yankowskis were in custody, and that he would be charged with them and Seymour with being in possession of the Russian notes—he said "I know nothing about it except that Lowenwurth induced me to get him some notes"—on the way to the station he said "Did any one see Lowenwurth give me the notes 1"—I said "Ko, but I saw something pass-between you"—I had secreted myself in one of the gardens in the Holloway Road, and they were walking close by the railings—on 25th October I received at Scotland Yard the parcel which has been produced—I was present next morning when it was opened.

Cross-examined by MR. PURCELL. They were in their shirt-sleeves—

Albert's coat was downstairs—I cannot tell whether there were two coats in the room on or off—I have not ascertained that Vincent is a metal-cutter, nor have I received from him samples of his metal-cutting, but there are lots of pieces of cut metal among the things I have taken away—I took no pocket-book from Albert.

Cross-examined by MR. GREENFIELD. I first became acquainted with Dombrowski about 12 months ago, by watching him by the direction of Chief Superintendent Williamson; that was not on political grounds—I am aware that he was engaged in the Polish insurrection of 1863, and I have seen the report that the French authorities sent as to his being engaged in the Franco-Prussian war—I never heard before of his being translator to the Admiralty.

Re-examined. I watched him at 26, Sussex Road, Islington, but not on political grounds—I do not watch persons on political grounds.

WILLIAM KEELEY . I am principal warder at H.M. Prison, Clerkenwell—I went round the cells with Annie Gibbard, and when we came to the cell where Vincent Yankowski was confined she said, "That is the man"—she was near enough for him to hear her—I then turned back against the door and had him brought forward again, and said, "Are you sure that is the man?"—she said, "That is the man"—he made no reply.

Cross-examined by MR. PURCELLM. About nine cells had been examined before that—there were no Russians or Poles in those cells—I was the only prison-officer present—Greenham was there.

EMMA WRIGHT . I am barmaid at the Eaglet Tavern, Seven Sisters Road, Holloway—I know Dombrowski as a customer—I changed a 5l. note for him over the bar on 23rd October about 9 p.m.—I handed it to my employer, who gave me the change—I had only seen Dombrowski occasionally before—I do not know any of the other prisoners.

Cross-examined by MR. PURCELL. I do not remember whether other notes were changed that night—Inspector Greenham asked me about a week afterwards if I remembered changing a note one day at the end of the week; he did not put any date or name—I said that I did not remember, but afterwards, when I saw Dombrowski again, I remembered that I had changed a note for him.

Cross-examined by MR. GREENFIELD. I said that this was about the 23rd—I do not remember changing notes for anybody else the same day—I am in the habit of changing notes—I know nothing of the other prisoners.

Re-examined. It was on a Thursday—I am sure I gave the same note to my master.

WALTER MAIDEN . I am landlord of the Eaglet, Seven Sisters Road—I remember my barmaid, Emma Wright, bringing me a 5l. Bank of England note—it was on a Thursday in October, but I forget the date—I came out of the bar-parlour with the money for it, and gave it to the barmaid, and saw her give it to Dombrowski—the police came to me about it two or three days afterwards—I afterwards paid the note to Mr. Wilson, of Poole's Park—I know Dombrowski as a customer; he used to come most evenings, and I have seen the stout prisoner (Vincent Yankowski) with him several times—I also believe I have seen Albert at my place with the other two prisoners.

Cross-examined by MR. PURCELL. I believe I have seen Albert several times, but I am positive as to Vincent—I never spoke to. him—a good

many customers come to my house in a day and a week, but we do not often have foreigners—I am quite certain that I have seen Vincent there several times.

Cross-examined by MR. GREENFIELD. I saw the barmaid give the change for this particular 5l. note which she gave me—I identify it because it ii the only one I took on Thursday or Friday—when the police spoke to me about notes there were three or four which I had to refer to, but I account for them; I had had them in the house some time—only two 5l. notes were changed, one on Thursday and one on Friday—I do not swear that the other note was not Dombrowski's—I have seen Vincent come in with Dombrowski as customers, but cannot mention any date.

JOHN WILSON . I live at 1, Poole's Park, Holloway, and am a cab proprietor—on Friday, 24th October, I received from Mr. Maiden, of the Eaglet, four Bank of England notes, three fives and one 20l.—T paid them next morning to my account at the London and South-Western Bank, Holloway branch—I did not endorse them; that was done by the bank clerk.

DINGWELL MCKELLAR . I am a cashier at the London and South Western Bank, Holloway branch—Mr. Wilson has an account there—on Saturday, 25th October, 35l. was paid in to his account, consisting of three 5l. notes and a 20l. note—this 5l. note No. 53921, dated 24th March, 1879, was one of them—this "Wilson "on the back is my writing.

FRANK THOMAS GOODENOUGH . I am assistant to Mr. Martin, a grocer of Tulse Hill—Arlington Road is just at the back—on the afternoon of 24th October, Friday I believe, I changed this 5l. note for a person, the prisoner Annie Gibbard—she bought a bottle of rum, and I gave her the change—I know it by my writing on the back "29, Arlington Road;" I wrote that because I knew her as coming from there; I had served her several times previously—the number is 77132, dated 22nd March—it was paid into the London and County Bank, Newington Butts, Lambeth branch.

Cross-examined. I believe 24th October was the date.

Cross-examined by MR. FRITH I know Miss Gibbard well, she had dealt with me—I do not remember changing notes for her before, but I had seen her dozens of times going in and out of the house.

Re-examined. I do not know Mrs. Sullivan, a witness, but I saw her at the police-court—I am quite sure Annie Gibbard is the person who gave me the note.

MARY ANN SULLIVAN . I am single, and have lived at 25, Liverpool Street, Walworth, three or four months—I go out charing occasionally, and among other places, to 29, Arlington Road—the first time I went there was May 7th, when Mrs. Seymour's mother died—I had known her before in Walworth, and I went to her once in Gray's Inn, and I knew her at Beading—I saw her and her baby at Arlington Road—I have seen the two Yankowskis there—I heard one of them spoken of as Mr. Vincent—I have seen him there four or five times; I have not spoken to him, but I have passed him and he has nodded—I do not know what he was doing there—I knew the other as Mr. Albert—I have seen him there about four times, but do not know what he was doing there—I have seen Annie Gibbard there—I knew that she was Mrs. Seymour's sister; I did not know her as Mitchell—I saw Mr. Vincent at Beading once—I have not seen him at Gray's Inn Road—some little time before 24th October Mrs. Seymour said "There will be a letter come for me, will you be kind enough to take it in?"—I said

"Yes"—she said that it would be in the name of Miss Davis, and it would be registered—I knew no one of that name, but I have heard Mrs. Seymour speak of Miss Davis very familiarly—on 24th October a registered letter came addressed to Miss Davis, and I signed this receipt for it (produced) and gave it to Mrs. Seymour—she said nothing about other registered letters, but on 4th November I received from Mr. Gaunt, a chemist, whose house this is, or from his wife, another registered letter addressed to Miss Davis, 24, Liverpool Street, Walworth—I took it to Mrs. Seymour—I did not see her open either of the letters. (The receipt for the registerei letter of 24th October was here put in, signed Mary Ann Sullivan.)

Cross-examined by MR. PURCELL. I heard Mrs. Seymour address Vincent as Mr. Vincent at Arlington Road—I think I have seen him five or six times altogether and four or five times in the house; I saw him once at Beading—I have opened the door to his brother, and he has asked for Mr. Vincent; he has come in that way three or four times—when I went first I think Mrs. Seymour told me that she had let the two top rooms to Mr. Mitchell; I think that was when I first heard the name—I never saw anybody but Mrs. Seymour and the two brothers in the house.

Cross-examined by MR. GREENFIELD. I never saw Dombrowski there—I never saw him till he was at the police-court.

Cross-examined by MR. SPRATT. I recollect changing a note at Mr. Martina shop—I think I was at the police-court when G-oodenough swore he changed a note for Annie Gibbard—I changed a note on 24th October—the date of that letter brought it to my memory—I did not see Gibbard at Mrs. Seymour's on 24th October—I was not there many minutes; it was late when I got there—I have seen a rent-book in the house with the name of Mitchell on it—Mrs. Seymour was not very strong—I do not know that she complained of heart disease and nervousness, and said that she was in a very weak and low state, but I have heard her mother say that she suffered from brain fever some years back.

Re-examined. I have been to Arlington Road several times without seeing Mr. Vincent, but I never went up to the top rooms—I went as high as the first floor—I had not the slightest idea what was upstairs—there is no third floor—I went to Mrs. Seymour's bedroom on the first floor—there were two bedrooms—I do not know whose room the other was—I have never seen any one there—Mrs. Seymour gave me the 5l. note which I changed at Martin's, the grocer's, on the 24th—I took in the registered letter about 8.30 p.m., and she gave me the note about five minutes afterwards, and asked if I would run out and change it for her, and I went out and bought something and changed the note and brought her the change—I am sure it was the 24th—that was the only note I changed for her—there was another letter on 4th November, but she gave me no note on that occasion.

By MR. PURCELL. The note was very light—I could tell by handling it that there was nothing heavy in it.

THOMAS SEBORNE GAUNT . I am a druggist, at 225, Borough, and live at 25, Liverpool Street—on 4th November a registered letter was brought to my house, addressed to Miss Davis—I took it in—I believed it was for Mrs. Seymour, because her sister's maiden name was Miss Davis, and knowing that I signed it "C. Gaunt, for L. Davis"—this is the paper (Stamped November 4)—I put the letter in a rack in the kitchen, and it was given to Mrs. Seymour next morning by my wife by my orders.

THOMAS GLOVER . I am an auctioneer, at Station Road, Brixton and an agent for some of the houses in Arlington Road, Tulse Hill—I let No. 29 from 1st May last to Mrs. Seymour—she took it in the name of George Seymour, who she said was an engineer—Annie Gibbard, her sister, was with her, no one else—I let her the house at 3 guineas a month, payable monthly in advance—she said that she had lately come from Oxford, and gave her address 247, Gray's Inn Road.

Cross-examined by MR. FRITH. I saw the house in her occupation, and immediately she took possession she put a card up "Apartments to let."

ARTHUR SALMON . I am a dairyman, at 247, Gray's Inn Road—in the beginning of March my second floor was to let, and two women came to take it—Annie Gibbard (who I have since recognised in Newgate) was one, and the prisoner Seymour the other, who came and lived there in the name of Parker—letters came in the name of Parker, and they gave that name—they had two rooms in my place, a sitting-room and a bed-room, and they occupied them, three of them, Vincent Yankowski, and Miss Gibbard and Mrs. Seymour—when they took my place Miss Gibbard said "My sister's husband is something on the Great Western Railway"—they were there about six weeks, and I did not know any one of them except by the name of Parker—Vincent went by the name of Parker—I never heard any Christian name—I have lived there a great many years, and I know Albert Yankowski by seeing him somewhere; I don't know where—I did not know his name.

Cross-examined by MR. PUBCELL. I do not know that Albert lived in the house—my evidence was taken down by the solicitor, and I said "I have also seen in Newgate Albert Yankowski; he did not live in the house, but was in the habit of calling"—I have spoken to-day of Annie Gibbard describing her sister's husband as a servant on the Great Western Railway, and before the Magistrate I said that it was her uncle; that was a mistake; I meant the same person, but I said "uncle" instead of "brother-in-law"—I also said "Gibbard always called him uncle;" that was also a mistake.

Re-examined. The rooms were unfurnished—they brought their own furniture and luggage.

ISIDORE SALTS BERG . I made this translation (produced) of these three-rouble notes—the difference between the one series and the other is that one is 1874 and the other 1878—they are in other respects alike.

GEORGE BAUMER (Interpreted). I Jive at St. Petersburg, and am the chief of the State Paper Department, where Government bonds and banknotes are made—these four rouble notes are forged, and the packet of 103 are forged also—the police have also shown me a number of notes, every one of which is forged—some of these, of 1874, are identical in print with the four and the 103, excepting the last figure; of course in the series the number is different; some are 1874 and some 1878—the police have shown me a quantity of machinery, plant, and copper plates which would forge these notes—this is a plate for making the water-mark—the year appears to have been altered—some little error has been committed in the plate, the consequence of which is that it appears on all the notes—that of itself would let me know that that note was not produced at the Government manufactory—where the dot is marking the note there is a figure to be, but it is spoiled in some way—I also find copper plates for making the

backs and fronts of these notes—some of the copper is very much worn—one of the plates has been used to a very great extent to print off an enormous number of notes—every one of the articles here is used for the manufacture of notes—in case you should find among them something which is not altogether applicable, it is for this reason, that forgers of notes do not know the real secret how genuine notes are made, and therefore they make trials and essays to come to a satisfactory end—the name of the director is not upon the stamps, because that is already on the plate, but the three cashiers' name are produced by the stamp.

Cross-examined by MR. GREENFIELD. I have heard the name of Yankowski, but do not know him personally—I do not know that he was an Agent of the Russian Government in Switzerland—I have been connected with the note department since March last.

A witness deposed to the Yankmoskis' good character.



There were two other indictments against the prisoners, upon which, as to Seymour and Gibbard, no evidence was offered, and a verdict of

NOT GUILTY was taken.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-115
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

115. THOMAS JENKINS** (45) PLEADED GUILTY to stealing a table, two chairs, and other articles, the property of Lydia Allen, having been convicted at Clerkenwell in October, 1872.— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-116
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

116. JOSEPH HALL (18) and WALTER WORSTER (20) , Robbery on George Stiff, and stealing a watch and chain, his property.

MR. GILL Prosecuted.

GEORGE STIFF . I live at 15, Industria Terrace, Brixton Road, and am a plasterer—on Saturday, 6th December, about 9.30 p.m., I was in the London Road in a public-house, where I saw the prisoners—they asked me to treat them—we all had something to drink—I said "I want to go to the Elephant and Castle"—they offered to show me the way—we left, and they took me up a dark turning, and Worster knocked me down, and before I was fairly up Hall knocked me down—Worster took my watch and chain from my pocket—I called out "Police?" and he gave it me back and ran away—three constables came up.

Cross-examined by Hall. The master of a public-house did not refuse to serve me—I did not throw down a pot of beer—a constable did not come in and put roe out—I did not drop my money on the floor—you did not pick up two half-sovereigns and return them to me—I did not say I left my silver cigar-holder there—I did not put my arm round your neck—I did not say to the constable that you did nothing to me.

Cross-examined by Worster. I had had a glass of ale, but was not the worse for drink—I did not take hold of the horse's head of a van pasting the tavern and draw it on the kerb, and the driver did not say "What are you doing of, you d—fool?"—I did not catch hold of a young woman round the neck, and we did not fall.

FREDERICK BARTON (Policeman). On the night in question I was with Constables Chamberlain and Hunt in St. George's Square at about.

10 o'clock, when I saw the prosecutor and the prisoners together at St. George's Circus—I watched them till they got to the Duke of Clarence, in the Westminster Road, where one of the prisoners asked for some drink, and the barman refused to serve them, and they crossed back from the Duke of Clarence to the Grapes—I remained outside with Chamberlain, and they remained there three-quarters of an hour, when they left and went down the London Road and entered the Royal Mortar public-house—after they were turned out the prosecutor was between the prisoners, one taking hold of each arm—they crossed the London Road, down St. George's Market, where there are about a dozen short courts—I got behind some vans, and Chamberlain ran round through another court—Hunt was behind me, and I heard the prosecutor say "No, I am not going that way; I will go back again," and he began to struggle to get away from the prisoners, and as soon as he began to struggle Worster hit him at the tide of the bead and he fell, and on trying to rise to his feet again the other prisoner struck him and he fell again, and while he was on the ground they got round him—he called out "Police) "and "Murder 1"—as soon as he began to call out they ran away, and Hall ran into my arms—the other prisoner was secured by Chamberlain—they were charged at the station Hall said he was in the Borough Road at 10.45 at a public-house called tile Fountain, and from there went to the Victoria Theatre and saw the prosecutor there, who was going to be looked up by a policeman, and he took him away, and the prosecutor asked him to shew him the way to the Elephant and Castle, and he was taking him that way by a short cut, and when he got down by St. George's Circus he said he wanted to go back after a woman, and they did not want him to go, and while he was struggling to go he called out "Police!" and "Murder!"—they were both searched and nothing found.

Hall. He was not struck at all; it is quite false. It was his own wish to go down there.

Worster. What has been said about the drinking is quite false.

JAMES CHAMBERLAIN (Policeman L 172). I was with the last witness and Hunt on the night in question—I separated front Hunt and went on in front down the court and saw the prisoners and prosecutor—I saw Woratar knock the prosecutor down and he got up and Hall knocked him down—a woman came out and called "Police!"—the prosecutor and the prisoners began to run away and I took Worster and Hunt fetched the prosecutor back—he said "He stole my watch, and when I screamed 'Police! he gave it me back"—the chain was broken—I found nothing on Worster but, a knife.

Cross-examined by Hall. I saw. you strike the prosecutor.

Worster. On Monday morning when the matter came before the Court the chain was broken; the inspector on Saturday night said it was not broken.

Witness. He never said so; it was broken in two and was tied with a piece of Cotton.

JOSEPH HUNT (Policeman L 277). I was with the two last witnesses tad stood at the corner of the Court, and saw Worster knock the prosecutor down; when he was in the act of getting up the other prisoner knocked him down—I heard a woman call "Police!"—the prosecutor ran away and I stopped him and asked what was the matter, and he said he had been knocked down by two men—he was trying to mend his chain and I asked him for his watch—he would not give it me—I told him who I was.

Hall's Defence. I am quite innocent of it There was no such thing as taking a watch away from him.

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment each.

Before Mr. Recorder.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-117
VerdictsGuilty > unknown

Related Material

117. JOHN AIREY (45) and WILLIAM KELLY (30) , Unlawfully obtaining by false pretences from Maurice Lindsay 10s. 6d., with intent to defraud. Also for conspiracy, and obtaining various sums from 22 other persons by false pretences.


MESSRS. WILDBY WRIGHT and BROXTON HICKS defended Airey; and MR.T. C. JARVIS defended Kelly.

MAURICE LINDSAY . I am a merchant of 26, Milk Street—in March last I wanted a small loan and saw an advertisement in a daily paper, in consequence of which I wrote to a person named Buer, of London Bridge Approach, in answer to which I received a form in an envelope—before I filed it up I took it to Mr. Buer's to ask him if all the questions were to be filled up—the name of Buer was up, and I saw Kelly there—he said they need not all be filled up, so I took it away and filled it up and sent it to the office—I received no answer, and in about a week after I went to the office again and saw Kelly—I asked him why the money had not been granted, and he said he had not received the form back from the surety—on the first visit I had paid a fee of 10s. 6d. at Kelly's request—before I paid it he said "I shall require a security," and I gave him the name of Mr. Rogers, 6, Mount Villas, Upper Sydenham—he gave me no receipt for the 10s. 6d.—I said my surety had not received any letter—Kelly said he could not understand it, and said a letter had been written, and he showed me a letter copied in copying ink in a book and he said he would write again—a little more than a week elapsed, during which I saw Rogers—I saw Kelly again and I believe he said he would write again about it—I took no further notice and never had the loan or my 10s. 6d. back.

Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. At that time I was a clerk in my other's office receiving 80l. or 90l. a year—that was not my whole income—the defendants asked me my whole income and I told them it was about 190l. per annum—it wanted time to calculate; my income changes—they said they should require a surety—I believe they said he must be a responsible man—I said Rogers was a responsible man; a householder—I did not tell them he was a gardener at weekly wages—I put it in the form—he eked out his income by letting apartments, and I was a lodger in his house—I swear I was not in his debt in my lodging account—Rogers I believe is not here—I was not told at a subsequent interview with the defendants. that Rogers had absolutely declined to be my surety—I last saw Rogers about three or four months ago—he has now moved, not far from where he lived.

Cross-examined by MR. JARVIS. I understood when I paid the fee that it was necessary in order to make inquiries respecting Rogers—Kelly did not tell me that he had made inquiries, and round Rogers was not good enough to be surety—I had no furniture of my own at that time—I received 80l. per annum from my father's firm; I derived the feat of my income from my father voluntarily, as an allowance which might be stopped at any moment—I was living with Rogers—I think I gave Kelly both my

addresses—I cannot say whether I gave him my address at Rogers's—I represented him as an entirely independent person in reference to me—Kelly did not tell me that he discovered I was a lodger of Rogers's.

Re-examined. I stated in the form for the surety that Rogers had been a bankrupt, which he had been 10 or 13 years ago—I applied for a loan of 30l.

HARRIS STIBBON . I am an innkeeper, of Teddington, near Lynn in Norfolk—in September, 1578, I saw an advertisement in the Stamford Mercury, in consequence of which I applied by letter to Buer, of 19, London Bridge Station Approach, asking for a loan of 40l.; I received a form in reply—I filled it up, and sent it back with a Post-office order for 15s.—I was not asked for any security—I then received a letter from then stating that as I lived so far away they should require 2l. 18s. for travelling expenses, for their representative to come down and see my place—I sent that amount on the 2nd October to the same address—a man came down when I was busy in the yard; it was neither of the defendants—he said "Are you Mr. Stibbon?"—I said "Yes"—he said "I am from Mr. Buer"—I said "Oh I all right, come in the house"—he said "Don't say nothing we don't want anybody to know our business," and I asked him into my private room—he said "Is this furniture yours?"—I said "Yes, everything about the place"—he gave me a paper to sign to prove to Mr. Buer that he had been, and he took the paper away with him, and said I should have the money—on the following Tuesday morning I wrote to Mr. Buer, and received a reply about a week after—that is burnt—the letter said the matter was being investigated, or was in the hands of their lawyer—I then received another letter from them requiring two sureties for 40l. each—I wrote and told them what I thought of the matter—I cannot say whether I asked for my money back, but I never received it—I have lost the letters in moving, having had three houses in 18 months, but I have entered in this book (produced) all that I spent last year and all I took.

Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. I am a publican and horse and colt breaker—I had been in my house about six months at that time—I was never asked to give a bill of sale on my furniture as security for the loan—I thought, seeing the advertisement signed, that there were no law costs, and that a written guarantee would be given if required, that no publicity would be given to the transaction; if I could have the money on those terms I would have it—I said I thought they were rank swindlers after that.

Cross-examined by MR. JARVIS. I had then never had a bill of sale on my furniture, and never owed a shilling—I have since—I had not then paid my rent; it was due on the 11th October.

JAMES CRABBE . I am a tea dealer, now of 21, Loddiges Road, Hackney—in March last, in consequence of an advertisement which I saw, I applied personally to Buer for a loan of 50l.—I received this form, which I took home. (Read: "Prospectus. From H. W. Buer, 19, London Bridge Station Approach, London. Cash advanced in town or country immediately for any length of time in sums varying from 5l. to 500l. at moderate interest on personal or any available security. Repayments in one sum, or by weekly, monthly, or quarterly instalments as per agreement. The amount applied for advanced in full. The rate of interest is 5 per cent") I filled it up, and took it back to the office, when I saw Kelly, and paid

him 15s.—I offered him a bill of sale on my furniture, and I think about a week after some one came to my house, but seeing that it is nine months ago I forget all about the matter—I think nothing further was heard for about a week, when I wrote to know if they intended to come to business, and I think somebody came to my house—after that I heard no more of it—I wrote to say if the money were not returned I should employ a solicitor, and I received a reply which I tore up, and put in the fire—the letter said that they should require two or three extra sureties in case I became bankrupt, or something—I never received the loan or the money back—I offered them the furniture in my front room, which I considered was much more valuable than the amount I applied for—I sold three articles of the same furniture just afterwards for 30l.

Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. I had been a commercial traveller for 15 years—I had not applied to other loan offices—I cannot say whether I had, in the year preceding, 'applied to borrow money and been refused—I will not swear that that did not occur in January last—I was not being pressed by divers creditors—there was nothing said to me about inquiries having been made which were not satisfactory—when I received the letter requiring two more sureties in addition to the bill of sale, I took no more notice of it—I have been subpœnaed.

Cross-examined by MR. JARVIS. When I paid Kelly the 15s. I understood it was for the expenses of inquiry.

EDWARD LOCKS . I live at 2, Market Place, New Maiden, and was a canvasser, but am now out of employment—in April last I was living at Bow—I saw Buer's advertisement in the Daily Telegraph, and went to his office on the 19th, when I saw Kelly; who parsed as Buer; I also saw Airey—I said I was about to take a situation, and wanted cash security for that purpose, and required a loan of 40l., which Kelly said I could have, and I was to call again, I think on the next day—I called again within a day or two, when I saw Airey, who said there would be a guinea to pay as inquiry fee—I asked him if he would give me a receipt for it, when he said, "If Mr. Buer were here he would show, you the door; we have been established here for 30 years, and no one has any reason to doubt our honesty in such matters;" so I paid him the guinea—he said he would communicate with my father, who is a fishmonger and poulterer, and whose name I had previously given him as a surety—my father afterwards gave me this letter. (Read: "19, London Bridge Station Approach, opposite the booking office at London Bridge Railway-station. April 18th, 1879. Re loan. Sir,—You have been proposed as surety for Mr. E. Locke, jun. I must trouble you to correctly fill in and return the enclosed form at your earliest convenience, and oblige yours faithfully, H. W. Buer.") After I had seen my father I went to see Kelly, and asked him why he did not tell me it would be necessary to have a bill of sale on my father's furniture, as required by the form enclosed, as if I had known that I should not have attempted to have anything to do with it, and he said, "We cannot afford to give you or your father 40l."—I believe I asked him for my money back again, and he said he would look over my account and would let me have a bill of it—in a few days I had the bill, saying he had looked it over and found there was 5s. 9d. to his account—I never got the loan or my money back—I threw the letter in the fire and thought no more of it.

Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. I was out of a situation when I applied

for the loan, and am out now—Airey did not say they had been established for "some years"—Kelly did not say he must have a bill of sale from my father because he found several County Court judgments against him, or that my father had a short while since been a beer retailer and had a bill of sale over his goods—he did not ask me whether it had been paid off, and I did not say I did not know anything about it—nothing of the sort occurred—my father was a licensed victualler some eight years ago—Kelly did not say he could not accept my father as surety without a bill of sale for various reasons, or that since my father was a licensed victualler he had had a bill of sale over his property—I have understood that there was one while he was a licensed victualler; I don't know of there being one since—I had no goods to give a bill of sale on—I told Kelly my father would not give a bill of sale.

Cross-examined by MR. JARVIS. I came to the conclusion that Kelly represented Buer—he did not tell me he was Buer.

Re-examined. When I entered the room on the first occasion I asked for Mr. Buer, and Kelly did the business.

GEORGE FURLONG . I am now of no occupation—in April last I was a pork-butcher, at 110, High Street, Peckham—about that time I received a circular by post, in consequence of which I called at Buer's, and saw Kelly and another man—I told the other man I wanted to borrow 50l., and he said "Oh, very well, you can have it," and I paid 10s.—Kelly came across the room and said "What is it?"—he said "This gentleman wants a loan of 50l.," and Kelly said to him "You know it is 15s.," and then I paid the other 5s.—they said I should receive a letter the next morning to say when I should have the money; and on receiving no letter I went up to the office again—as I went up Kelly and the other man were just putting a man oat of the room—I told them I had not received any letter, and I should decline having the loan, and would they give me the 15s. back, as they had not done anything for me in the case or sent a letter saying when I should hare the money—Kelly said "We do not do business like that, I shall not give it you back"—I then went into the street and spoke to a police sergeant, and subsequently made an application to Mr. Partridge at the Southwark Police-court, and he sent a warrant officer with me to Biter's—I went into the room and asked Kelly for the 15s. back, and they would not give it me, and then the officer from the Court went in with me and I told them who he was—after Kelly consulted with the other man they gave me back 15s., less 4d., for which they said they had written a letter, 1d. the stamp, and 3d. for the letter—the officer asked which was Buer, and Kelly said he was—he he took some money from his pocket to make up the 14s. 8d.

Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. I think I had two interviews with the defendants before I went with the officer—I said I wanted to borrow 50l. on a bill of my furniture—I was not asked what my debts were, or whether I was being pressed for money, or had a judgment against me, and I said nothing about it—Kelly did not tell me until after the money was refunded that he had discovered by a lucky accident that I had already a bill of sale on my furniture—I have had three or four bills of sale, but have never gone to the expense of having them struck off the register, and they were subsisting still—I had not an existing bill of sale on those goods when I applied for the loan; I Will not undertake to swear that—I know there was no money owing on a bill of sale then, not to my knowledge—I don't believe

there was, I will not go farther—I believe there was a judgment against me—I did not file my petition till August—I will not swear as to the date—it was not in June—the amount of my debts was then about 950l.—I cannot say how much my creditors have been paid—it is in my solicitor's hands to settle—it is a liquidation, not a bankruptcy—the resolution came to was 5s. in the pound, extending perhaps over six weeks from now—I did not put any furniture down in my assets, it had been sold then—I cannot say whether my furniture was worth 20l. when I went to the defendants.

Cross-examined by MR. JARVIS. My furniture was sold to my mother under a bill of sale.

ELIZA EMMENS . I live at Milkwood House, Milkwood Road, Brixton—in April last I was staying at 84, Finborough Bead, Kensington—I saw Boar's advertisement in the paper, and applied for a loan of 150l.—I think I received a form which I filled up and returned with a guinea by post-office order—I afterwards received a letter from the office asking for 3l., I think—I destroyed the letter and took no further notice of it.

Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. I was staying with some friends—I am not in any business—Milkwood House is my brother-in-law's—I was with another brother-in-law in Finborough Road, my sister's—I never saw the defendants—I described myself as a housekeeper in the form, because I meant to take a house; I meant householder—I was not earning any money—I don't think they said the 3l. was for some one to come and see my furniture—I had not any furniture then—I did not tell them I was only staying at Finborough Road on a visit; they did not ask me—they did not ask me for any security—I had certain money of my own.

GEORGE ROGERS . I live at 50, Cambridge Street, Pimlico, and keep a bookshop—in May last I saw an advertisement of Ruer's in the Daily Telegraph, and applied for a loan of 100l.—I received a form to fill up, which I did, and took to the office, where I saw Kelly—he said he should want a guinea, which I paid him—I did not ask for a receipt—in about a fortnight I went to the office again to know why I had not heard—I saw Airey, who said Mr. Buer was not in then, but he would make further inquiries—I believe he afterwards sent me another paper to fill up with the names of two sureties, which I sent back filled up—nothing was said about a bill of sale until they communicated with the sureties, and then they were not wishful that a bill of sale should be given, and I did not give one.

Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. Airey told me that one of ray two proposed securities had declined to be so—I did not propose another—I have had conversation with one of the proposed securities (Hoskins) since on this matter—inasmuch as one of the proposed securities declined, and I would not give a bill of sale, the matter dropped—I did not complain at the time—the police brought me into the case—Inspector Fox was anxious I should come here—he did not say he could not make a case without me.

ALFRED NEILSON . I am an auctioneer's clerk, of 265, Fulham Road—in May last I was living at Whitehead's Grove, Brompton, and in consequence of an advertisement I saw I wrote to Buer for a loan of 30l.—in reply I received this form (produced), which I filled up, and returned with a Post-office order for 10s. 6d.—I never heard any more of it—the letter sent with the form asked for two sureties, and I sent two names—I destroyed it—I have spoken to the proposed sureties since—I never got the loan.

Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. I did not go to inquire whether my loan was granted or not—I had no furniture of my own.

JOHN BOWVER . I live at Bourne, Lincolnshire, and am a draper's assistant—I formerly lived at 3, High Street, Forest Hill—ibout six months ago I saw Buer's advertisement in the Daily Telegraph, and went to the office, and saw Kelly—I told him I wanted a loan of 50l.—he said I could hare it on security, and I referred him to Mr. Todd, of Bourne—I told him 1 had property to the amount of 1,000l., which I should not get till I was of age—he said I could have it—I also referred him to Mr. Bell, solicitor, of the same town—he asked me for a guinea, which he said was the fee—I had no money with me then, and I sent him a Post-office order—he told me I could have it in two or three days—I received no letter, and I wrote in about four or five days—I received no reply, and I went, when I saw both the defendants—I asked Kelly if I could have the loan, and he told me he had received a letter from Mr. Todd refusing to sign a bill of sale, which he (Kelly) wanted—I told him I had written twice, and received no answer, to which he made no reply—I told him I would write to Mr. Todd—I received a reply from Mr. Todd, and called again on Kelly, and told him he was willing to be surety, but not to give a bill of sale—I did not get the loan or my money back.

Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. Mr. Todd wrote tor the return of the money—Kelly told me "All that I have to have is a letter from Mr. Todd, saying that he will be your security"—he afterwards told me that Mr. Todd would not be a satisfactory surety without a bill of sale—Mr. Todd would not give that.

Cross-examined by MR. JARVIS. When I paid the guinea Kelly told me that I must find a surety as I was under age.

WILLIAM TODD . I am a tailor and draper, of Bourne, Lincolnshire—I have known Bowyer all his life—about six months ago he made a communication to me about a loan, and I received a letter from the defendants—I believe it is destroyed—it was for me to be security for a loan to Bowyer, and I was willing to be so, and I wrote to them accordingly—I think it was in August or the end of July. (This letter stated that he could not think of a bill of sale, but was willing to assist Bowyer in any other way, so that unless their joint note for 50l. would do, the better plan would be to give him back the 21s. he had advanced, and let the matter rest.) I cannot say whether the bill of sale was asked for in the first letter I received—this letter of mine is not dated. (This letter stated that he had seen an account in the papers of the ciarge nude before Magistrate, and that unless the 21s. obtained from Bowyer was returned, the parties prosecuting would be communicated with.)

Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. I am no judge of whether that was a proper letter to write under the circumstances—I think the young gentleman had got into bad hands—I was perfectly solvent when I was offered as surety, no judgments against me—there was a judgment against me in the County Court for 11l. 14s. 6d. I believe—I paid it by instalments, as I could not spare the money from my business—there was a judgment against me for 16l. 18s. 5d.—I think it is all paid now.

Cross-examined by MR. JARVIS. My not being able to spare the money for the County Court, and offering to lend Bowyer the money myself is no criterion—I should have had to have got the money from the bank perhaps—I have a stock of good.

EDWARD SAMUEL VAUGHAN . I am a tobacconist of Rendezvous Street, Folkestone—in May last, in consequence of an advertisement which I saw, I applied to Buer by letter for a loan of 300l., and in reply received this letter, requesting a personal interview—I attended there accordingly and saw Kelly—he went to a desk and picked up a letter, which I recognised as mine—I said I had called to see Mr. Buer, and he said Mr. Buer had been obliged to go into the country, and was unable to see me according to appointment, and would be back in the course of the evening—I said I could not stay in London later than the afternoon—he said no doubt things might be arranged, and the foe would be two guineas—I said I wanted a letter from Mr. Buer in answer to mine to know whether business might be done, as it would be useless to run me into any expense unless they entertained the security I offered—I returned to Folkestone, and the next morning I received this letter. (Read: "19, London Bridge Station Approach, etc., 21st May, 1879. Sir,—I have no doubt that business can be done, and upon your forwarding P. 0. order for 42s., I will pay the matter immediate attention. Waiting your reply, I am yours faithfully, H. W. Buer.") My wife then wrote this letter enclosing the money. (Read: "1, Rendezvous Street, Folkestone, 22nd May, 1879. Dear Sirs,—I enclose you P. 0. order for 2l. 2s., and trust you will kindly attend to my application by return, as I must send an answer to the trustee.") I was in liquidation, which I had explained in my first letter, and I was endeavoring to obtain a loan to offer a dividend—I afterwards received this letter. (This stated that it would be necessary for a representative to wait upon the witness, and as he resided a considerable distance from the office, 2l. 18s. 3d. must be forwarded for travelling expenses.) I wrote back declining any further business with them, and demanded the 2l. 2s. back, which I never received; nor did I have the loan.

Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. I paid the 2l. 2s. as the necessary inquiry fee—my furniture was in the possession of my trustee—if the arrangement for the security was satisfactory to the defendants I was willing to introduce the trustee to them—they did not tell me that without seeing the trustee nothing could be concluded—the 2l. 2s. was quite enough to go to Folkestone.

Cross-examined by MR. JARVIS. I did not represent to Kelly that the trustee was willing to be surety for me—the security I offered was a bill of sale and possession of my lease as collateral security—the trustee was willing to receive a dividend under the circumstances—there was no misrepresentation on my part at all.

THOMAS O'SULUVAN . I am a barman at the King's Arms, Peckham Rye—last March I thought of setting up a public-house for myself, and in consequence of seeing an advertisement, I went to Buer's office and saw Airey—I told him I wanted to take a house, that I had no money, and would he lend me 100l. if he held the agreement for lease of the house—he said "We can do it," and I was to look out for a house and call again in a few days to see Mr. Buer—I afterwards called and saw Kelly, who was introduced to me as Mr. Buer by Airey, I told my story again to him, and he entertained it and said he would get the money through as soon as possible, and I was to look out for a house—I went again to him on 1st April with the form filled up and paid 1l. 1s., which Kelly said was for stamps—in a few days I saw a house at Homel Hempstead, and called on

Kelly again, who said he Would see about it—I saw him again and he said it was not good enough, and I Was to look out for another—I afterwards saw the Rose of Denmark, and went to Kelly again, and he said he would see about it—I saw the brewers and made all the arrangements—I was to pay 100l.—I went twice again to Kelly's to get my money, but did not—no reason was given to me and I continued to visit the office till I found it closed.

Cross-examined by MR. WEIGHT. I was told if the house were bought they would hold the agreement for the lease, for the money—nothing was subsequently said about my depositing the lease with the brewers as security for the 100l.—the defendants did not refuse to advance the money until they could have the lease—they did not tell me they had inquired about the public-house at Peckham Rye, or that I could not get the money unless I had a remarkably good house at my back—they asked me if I had any furniture with a view to giving a bill of sale—I told them it was not of greater value than 20l.

Cross-examined by MR. JAHVIS. I know Kelly did inquire about the public-house.

JOHN EDWARD GUIN . I live at 78, Portland Street, Commercial Road, and am a rope-maker—X saw Buer's advertisement, and in consequence went to Buer's on the 21st June and saw the defendants—I told Kelly I wanted to borrow 50l., for 12 months, to he payable in four quarterly instalments, and he said "All right"—I gave him two trade references, I paid him 10s. then, and afterwards 11& for inquiry—I was to call on Monday and I should have the money without fail next Tuesday—I saw Kelly again and he gave me a form to fill up—he told me everything was satisfactory—I had a form of bill of sale to fill up, which I tore up—nothing was said about a bill of sale at first—I never received the guinea back.

Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. The form Kelly gave me to fill up was a bill of sale on my furniture—I expected to get the money as per advertisement, on personal security—I had my place of business at Emmet Street, Poplar, but I had given it up, and I had only at that time a private house.

Re-examined. When I paid the guinea nothing was said about the bill of sale.

JAMBS SUMNER . I am a fishmonger of 56, Camilla Road, Bennondsey—about the 23rd of last July I saw Buer's advertisement in the paper, and I wrote and received this reply. (Read: "19, London Bridge Station Approach, &c. July 24th, 1879. Sir,—Confidential I shall be pleased to entertain your application for an advance of 70l. on the terms you propose. Kindly fill in and return the enclosed prospectus, together with the charge as per scale, and I will then arrange matters for you. I am, sir, yours respectfully, H. W. Buer.") The letter enclosed a prospectus which I filled up and returned—I went up and made inquiries and paid a guinea to Kelly, who said I should hear from him in a few days—I afterwards received this letter, (Read: 19, London Bridge Station Approach, &c. Sir,'—Re Loan. I must trouble you to find me a substantial surety and oblige yours faithfully, H. W. Buer.") I called on Kelly and asked him what security he required, as I offered to deposit a lease which would realise 190l., and I said would my son do 1—the lease was then deposited with my solicitors, Messrs. Hogan. and Hughes—my son was an engineer and

machinist in a situation, and did work at home—Kelly said he would do and my son afterwards received this letter. (Read: "19, London Bridge Approach, &c. August 1st, 1879. Sir,—Are you willing to stand surety for your father for 100l. "Answer by return and oblige yours faithfully, H. W. Buer.") I took my son's answer to Kelly's and put it into the letter box—I went again in three or four days in answer to a letter saying they wanted another security besides my son—I said it was not an easy matter to find people to put their hand to paper, and therefore they could not grant me the loan—I asked Kelly for my money back, and he said it had been eaten up in expenses; and I said "Give me a' part," and he said he would give me a statement, and the next day I saw the prosecution in the paper.

Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. The lease was deposited with my solicitors for something under 20l. owing to them—I did not apply to them to advance on it, and they did not tell me it was not worth a halfpenny more than, my debt to them—I had no conversation with them as to its value, nor did Kelly tell me that its outside value was the amount for which it was pledged to, the solicitors—they told me it was no good to them—my son was employed at a place in the Walworth Road at weekly wages—he occupied a six-roomed house—I live with him and his family—they asked me the value of his furniture and I said about 50l.—I had furniture, but I had not offered to give a bill of sale—they did not ask me—I asked if they would grant me a smaller amount, but Kelly told me he did not mean to let me have it at all.

Cross-examined by MR. JARVIS. I made 10l. a year by the lease, which had 10 years to run from Christmas.

CHARLES JAMES COLAM . I live' at 126, Asylum Road, Peckham, and am a hat manufacturer—in July last I saw Buer's advertisement, and called and saw Airey, and told him I wanted 70l.—he told me the terms were 5 per cent.—he said, "Before we go into the matter of advancing the money you will have to pay us a guinea"—I told him I had not a guinea with me at the time, so I paid him 10s.—he said, "Now we can go into business; what security have you to offer?—I said I would give a bill of sale on my furniture and stock of the value of between 200l. and 300l.,—he said that would be quite satisfactory, and I should have the money to-morrow—I told him I could give him any references he liked—the same evening I received this letter. (Read: "July 23rd, 1879. Sir,—Kindly remit P.O. order for 11s., balance owing on the 21s. when I will give your matter immediate attention. I am, sir, yours faithfully, H. W. Buer.") I went the next day and saw Airey, who introduced Kelly to mo as Buer—I paid the 11s. and did not ask lor a receipt—Kelly said he would make inquiry, and I could have the money in the course of to-morrow—later in the day I received another letter, enclosing a form, for me to fill up—I filled up the form and got it sworn before a Commissioner, and took ft to the defendants' and saw Kellv—he read it over and made some remark on it, and said, "We can let you have the money for 98l."—I asked for 70l.—I said I could not think of paying that amount of money, because Airey had stated he would let me have it at 5 per cent.—"Oh," he said, "I could not think of advancing money at that rate"—J told him he had been putting me off from time to time and it was a perfect swindle, and requested him, to return me the money—he said, "I shall not do it; make a written application—I then

went to my solicitor, Mr. Harston, and instructed him—I did not get my money back—I told Kelly he had not made any application to ascertain my standing—he made no reply.

Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. On one occasion Kelly told me somebody was making inquiries at my house—I had not previously applied for a Joan and been refused—I was offered the loan and refused it.

JAMES HULL . I am a stonemason, of 52, Branksome Road, Brixton—my son Edmund and I applied in July last for a loan of 50l. from Buer—I saw Kelly and told him I wanted the money to purchase a horse and van to start in the greengrocery business, and I handed him this circular (produced)—he told me I might expect the money in three days—he said a guinea would be required, and we had only 2s. with us—my son handed him the 2s. and said we would forward the other that same day or on Monday, but I sent my son with it and he brought me back this receipt (produced)—after three days, instead of the money I had a long form sent me to fill up, which I did, and sent back as soon as possible—I was next told that I must provide a surety—I applied to a responsible person of the name of Brett, and he offered himself as surety, and I sent his name to Kelly—Mr. Brett came and filled up the form, and my son and I took the printed form filled up, and I asked Kelly to come back with me and see the surety—he said he could not leave the office, but would send some one up the same night—in the meantime I had paid 2l. deposit on a horse and van and something for a barrow—iustead of his coming to see me a form was sent to my surety, which he filled up and sent back—I expected each day to hear from them, and at the end of a fortnight from the day of application, finding nothing was said about the surety or the money, I went to see Kelly—he said, "Oh, you must provide another surety, "that he had stood for somebody else for 10l., 6l. of which had been paid, and the rest was being paid according to arrangement—I then asked for my money back; I said he might have a shilling for his expenses—he laughed at me and made light of the matter, and said I might do as I could—I said I should apply to the Magistrate, and he said I must be childish, and I was excited, knowing I could not open my business.

Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. I was not told that there was difficulty in getting—the other 4l. for which Brett had stood—I had been to a Mr. Fairfax previously for a loan, and proposed two sureties in addition to my furniture—one of the proposed sureties was Brett—Fairfax did not tell me Brett was not good enough—I withdrew my application—I never opened the shop at all.

Cross-examined by MR. JARVIS. I went to another loan office and got 10l., and paid 3l. interest.

EDMUND HULL . I paid the 19s. to Kelly on Monday, the 14th July, for which he wrote this memorandum: "Received of Mr. J. Hull the sum of 21s. to defray expenses."

Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. I was going into business with my father—I had no furniture; I lived with him.

FREDERICK JOHN SMITH . I am a gardener, formerly of 18, Pomona Place, Fulham, and now of Putney Heath—I saw Buor's advertisement in July last, and went to the office and saw Kelly, who asked me if it was a little money I wanted—I said "Yes," and he said, "About how much 1"—I said, "About 90l." and he said I had better say 100l.; I said I did not mind—

I gave my name and address—he did not ask for security—he asked for 2 guineas—I paid him 5s., and he said I could send the other by post-office order and gave me this paper. (Read: "19, London Bridge Station Approach, &c. 'July 29th, 1879. P.O. order payable to H. W. Buer at Lombard Street, E.C., for 1l. 17s.") I called on the following Saturday and saw Kelly,' having previously sent the post-office order, for which he gave me this memorandum. (Read: "Received from Mr. Frederick John Smith the sum of 2l. 2s. on account of expenses.) Kelly said the 2l. 2s. was to guarantee my good faith—on the Friday night I received a letter signed by Buer asking for sureties, which I refused to give—Kelly said he was Buer, and would let me have it if I found one substantial surety and if I would take a house on lease for seven or fourteen years, then perhaps he might let me have it—I went away and wrote for the return of the money—I received no answer.

Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. I had three interviews with the defendants—I gave my father's name as surety—they applied to him.

WILLIAM TABBANT . I live at 131, Boyson Road, Camberwell Gate, and am a builder—I saw Bner's advertisement last July, and sent my wife to the office, and afterwards went there myself—I saw the defendants, and asked Kelly if he would lend me 50l.—I offered my furniture as security, which I told him was worth 300l., which it was insured for—he said it would be all right, and I paid 15s.—I had a letter afterwards asking for another security—I told him the furniture was my security—I never got the loan.

Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. I paid 32s. a year for my house—I was not told at the outset that I must give a bill of sale on the furniture—I did not refuse to give it—I know what a bill of sale is—my father was my landlord—I pay half-yearly—I then owed a half-year's rent—I was willing to give a bill of sale, but they did not ask me for it—I did not say I could not give it because my fether would know it—Kelly asked if my father would be security, and I said "No"—I did not want him to know I was borrowing money—my father was not paying me wages; I am a partner.

JAMES P. MITCHELL . I am a grocer and provision merchant, of 29, Elm Street, Leith—in July last I saw Buer's advertisement in "Reynolds's paper, and wrote for a loan of 100l., and in reply received this letter, stating, "I shall be happy to entertain your application for an advance of 100l. on the terms you propose on being satisfied as to your responsibility and position to pay the amount," Ac.—I filled up the form, and returned it with a P.O. order for 1l.—in reply I received this letter, enclosing a schedule—I filled up the form, which was asking me a number of questions, and returned it—I heard nothing further from, the office—I did not write again—I had neither the loan nor my guinea back, nor did they send to my place to inquire.

Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. I gave the name of J. Allen, of Edinburgh, as my surety—I was subpoanaed on this case—no one communicated with me previously.

EDWARD CHARLES INGRAM . I am a tea merchant, of 36, Mark Lanelast August I saw Buer's advertisement, and called and saw Kelly, and told him I wanted a loan of 200l., the terms to be 5 per cent., payable half-yearly—he asked me if I would have 300l.—I said I did not require

it—I gave him the names of three householders as sureties—he said one would do and I fixed on my mother-in-law, Caroline Cooper—he said the fee would be 2 guineas—I said "Will I have these 2 guineas back?" and he said "Yes, when you pay me the 200l. back"—I paid him, and had a receipt for it (produced)—I saw him write it—I afterwards received from my mother-in-law this letter, requesting Mrs. Cooper to fill in the enclosed form, and return same—she showed me the form, which she filled up and sent—she afterwards showed me this letter. (Read: "Madam,—Would you kindly appoint a time to come here with the deeds of your house.") I believe she went—Kelly said he was quite satisfied, and I should hare the money on Monday morning, 11th August—I went, but he sent me away with an excuse without the money—my mother-in-law afterwards showed me this letter. (Read: "August 12tb, 1879. Jfc-Loan. Madam,—I must request that you forward per return of post, having declined the proposed advance, the sum of 1l. 6s. 8d., my solicitor's costs in the matter, when you can have what papers you have signed. H. W. Buer.") Before that letter we went to Mr. Noton, the solicitor—the expenses were to be 9l. and 8 per cent.—I agreed to have it at 5 per cent.—Kelly would not give me the two guineas back, and I told him he should hear from my solicitor—he said "You have not a solicitor; there will be 5l. other expenses"—he tried to frighten me—I said "You won't get another penny out of me'.

Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. I was with Ward, Pearce, and Co. at 36, Mark Lane—I had a situation there, but am now on my own account—my place of business now is at Croydon—I did hot tell Kelly my motherinlaw would give a charge on her property; I could not have said so in my deposition—I went with my wife and mother-in-law to the solicitor's with the title deeds of the property—he went through them, and Mid they were satisfactory—he said a mortgage would be drawn up to secure the repayment, and I said I would have nothing to do with it—he said "Mr. Buer never lends money at 5 per cent; the lowest would be 7 per cent."—I said "He agreed to, and I paid him two guineas on that condition."

JAMES BRYANT . I live at Melbourne Lodge, Harrow, and am a coal merchant—in August, 1878,1 wrote in reply to Buer's advertisement, and received this letter in reply, enclosing a prospectus, which I filled up and sent back with this cheque for a guinea, payable to H. W. Buer, dated 2nd September, 1878, drawn by me—it is endorsed H. W. Buer—I don't think I had then offered any security, nor did I have a receipt—I received another letter, which I have lost, in consequence of which I sent another cheque for 1l. 7s. 9s., payable to Buer—I afterwards received this receipt for the 1l. 7s. 9d. (produced) and this letter: "Sir,—My representative will have the pleasure of calling on you on Monday next"—a person came to view my place, and asked a few questions, and saw nothing except what was in the office—he said he was perfectly satisfied, and should advise Mr. Buer to grant the loan, and I saw him off by train—I did not get the loan, and went up and saw Airey, who told me to come again in the afternoon and I should see Mr. Buer—I called again, and saw Kelly, who asked me if I wanted to swindle them out of 200l.—I said certainly not; I wanted to know why they would not let me have the money, and he told me to go out of the room or he would put me out—I valued the effects I was going to give as security at 400l. or 450l., including two horses, two

carts, a bicycle, and trade utensils, &c.—I never got the loan or the money back.

Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. I also offered my household furniture—I had only recently gone into business—I had bought the carts and horses with the business removed my furniture from the Wandsworth Road.

EDWARD FRANK ADAMS . I live at 22, Stamford Green, Stoke Newington, and am a clerk—I went to Buer's last August and saw Kelly, and applied for a loan of 807.—I filled up the form and paid 1l. 1s.—I said I had 1207. coming to me under my father's will—he said that would do—about two days after I went again, and Kelly said he thought he could let me have the money—afterwards he wrote to me—I believe I destroyed the letter—he said "I shall require a Burety"—I gave the name of my mother—I wrote again to say it would not do to give her name—I had no further communication—about a month after I went to the police-court.

Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. I went to the police-court because I thought he ought not to want a security—I heard of the inquiry going on there—I had an order to go there, and I saw Inspector Fox—I am 17 years old, and was then earning 18s. a week—I am Sure I did not mention my mother's name at first—I said after it would not do, and I would find another surety, but I did not.

JOHN KYBERD . I am a printer, of 9, John Street, Bedford Row—I applied by letter in August last to Buer's advertisement for a loan of 200l. or 300l.—I received an answer enclosing a prospectus, which I filled up and returned with a post-office order for a guinea—I offered as security two leases, one for 21 years and one for 19 years, and household furniture and effects—a few days after I went to the office and saw the defendants—I told Kelly what I had come about, and he said "What name?"—I told him, and he said "It shall be attended to; it ought to have been done before; the papers are in hand, and you shall receive them probably to-night"—the next morning I received the papers to fill up, with a form of affidavit to swear before a Commissioner, which I did before Mr. Moto, of Gray's Inn, and sent it to the office—I then received another letter, which I destroyed—it was to the effect that they should require two sureties—I never had the loan.

Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. I did not show the leases to the defendant—I had them with me when I went to see them—I only had one interview—I Voluntarily abandoned the application.

Cross-examined by MR. JARVIS. One lease Was for 100l. a year and the other 50l.; two separate houses—I pay 100l. a year for the house at occupy, and let it partly off, furnished and as offices—I receive 135l. a year, and live rent free.

THOMAS EVANS . I am a medical practitioner, I went to So, Portland Terrace, Regent's Park to Bee Ann V. Coombes last evening—she is suffering from bronchitis and asthma, and is quite unable to come here to give evidence.

MATHEW FOX (Police Inspector) proved the deposition of A. P. Coombs, taken on the 11th November, before the Magistrate, which was to the effect that she had applied in June last to Buer for a loan of 200l., and paid a guinea, and did not obtain the loan of her money back.

EDWARD HENRY WRIGHT . I live in Northamptonshire—in April last I was living at Momsley, Leicestershire—I applied to Buer for a loan, and

received a reply with a prospectus, which I filled in, and sent back with a guinea—I afterwards received another letter, in consequence of which I sent 2l. 18s. 3d. for his representative to come down—this is the receipt (produced)—after his representative had come down some time elapsed, and I wrote to Buer, who sent for me, and I went up to London Bridge, when I saw Kelly, who represented himself to be the head clerk—he said Mr. Buer was not at home that day, but would probably be home the next day, but he would let me have 40l. then if I liked-1 said I would rather see Mr. Buer—I went the next day, when Kelly said he had telegraphed to Buer, and he read me a letter purporting to come from Buer, saying he should not be home for eight or ten days—I then complained of the inconvenience of being made to come up, and not seeing Buer—he said "A friend of Mr. Buer's will let you have 50l. if that is any good to you"—I said "Well, I will have that now, perhaps Mr. Buer will let me have a little more"—he said "Oh yes, sign the bill of sale for 70l. which I did, and it was to be made up to 100l.—the bill of sale was made out to Mr. May (produced); that is my signature—he told me I must sign a promissory note for 70l., as a further security in case the bill of sale should be lost—I objected at first, but ultimately agreed to it; I received 48l. 10s., 30s. being deducted for the stamps on the bill of sale—I returned to Leicestershire, and on the 20th June I sent a cheque for 7l. (the first instalment) to Mr. May, of 19, London Bridge Station Approach, which letter has not been returned—on the Monday afterwards Mr. Kelly and another man came down, and took possession of the farm and stock, and everything there was except the furniture—I would not allow them to go in the house—I told them I had sent a cheque for 7l. on Friday, but they said they had never received it, and that Mr. May had told them he had never had it—Kelly said he would allow me a day or two to see what I could do, but that he had his instructions, and however unpleasant they might be he was bound to carry them out—I asked him what his instructions were—he said "Of course you know what my instructions are; if you do not pay the money we shall have to sell"—I went to my solicitor, and told him about it—they took away three horses to London—I have never got them back—I valued them at about 120l. or 130l.—the cheque for 7l. was never presented.

Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. I received the 48l. 10s. in notes and gold—I knew what I was doing when I signed the documents—I made a statutory declaration on 16th June that my debts did not exceed 120l.—the solicitor received 6s. 8d. out of the 30s. deducted—I filed my petition on the 24th June—I don't remember exactly whether I then returned my debts at 465l. 16s. 1d.—the declaration was false to a certain extent—the debts increased to a certain extent—it was not wilfully false—I never heard that the 7l. cheque was in the hands of my trustee in bankruptcy—the horses were the subject of proceedings in the Bankruptcy Court when they were claimed on the one hand by the bill of sale holder, and on the other by the trustee—I know it was decided that they were to be given to the bill of sale holder—I know they were sold—I believe nothing has been paid to my creditors yet.

Cross-examined by MR. JARVIS. I know Kelly represented himself as head clerk.

Re-examined. I have never heard of or seen Mr. May.

HUGH WILLIAM JAMIESON . I live at Irving Grove, Dulwich, and am an

accountant at the Central Bank of London—I produce a pass-book of an account kept by the defendants, which was operated on by the signatures of both—Airey had an account from September, 1876—the account has not been operated on by Buer—Airey had an account open at the Shoreditch branch of the bank—I was selected to go and look at vie Shoreditch acoount at the request of the prosecution—I have nothing to do with the Shoreditch office—the balance now standing at the Shoreditch branch is 1l. 10s. 10d.—there has been no operation on the account since February, 1877.

Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. There has been an account kept at the bead office from which money has been from time to time drawn out, and paid in—we always considered it a fair business account of daily transactions, both receipts and payments—Airey's account appears to be a continuation of Buer's, and to have been carried on in the same way—at the time the joint account was opened 1,000l. was paid in by Airey and Buer—the average balance at the head office has not been less than 150l.—I think the largest cheques drawn were for about 100l.

JOBIAH SMITH . I am the manager to Mr. Moms, advertising agent, of 80, Lombard Street—I hare been in the habit for several years of receiving advertisements from Airey and issuing them to the London and country papers—in some instances replies would be forwarded to our office, and we would send them on—I cannot say whether these advertisements are in Airey's handwriting—I think they would only appear in two London papers. (Read: "To capitalists and investors. Particulars will be forwarded of securities seldom available to the public, returning a much higher interest than can be obtained otherwise, and with the most perfect safety. Address Lex, care of B. and H. Morris, 80,-Lombard Street?' "Retired tradesmen and others, desirous of a larger return than house property yields, equally safe and without its annoyances. Write for interview to A. J., care of B. and H. Morris, 80, Lombard Street") They were both inserted under the authority of the defendants in the Daily Telegraph of May 12th, 1879—this list represents the majority of the country papers they appeared in—after a little while some were stopped—the total of the whole amount we have received for the advertisements from November, 1876, to August, 1879, is 1,110l. 18s. 6d.

Cross-emmined by MR. WRIGHT. From January, 1879) to August, 1879, it would be about 220l.—from January till May both advertisements went in daily, and then one was discontinued.

Cross-xamined by MR. JARVIS. I knew Kelly was Airey's clerk—I gave credit in my books to Airey.

MATTHEW FOX (Police Inspector). I went to the defendants' office on the 28th August, and saw Airey—I told him I was a police officer, and had a warrant for his apprehension for obtaining money under pretence of granting loans—he said he was the principal, and that was his place of business—I waited about two hours, when Kelly came in—I asked him if his same was Kelly—he made. no reply—after a moment Mr. Thompson, who was with me, and who occupies the greater part of the house, said "His name is Kelly"—Mr. Thompson was examined as a witness at Southwark—I hare a letter to the effect that he is now very ill—I told Kelly also that I had a warrant for his apprehension—he made no reply—they were taken to the station, charged, and taken before the Magistrate and admitted on their own tail—I then arranged to meet them at the office at 10.80 the next morning,

and I met them about 11—I did not caution them—they were then before the Magistrate and knew my business—I went to examine and take possession of anything I thought necessary—I did not threaten the defendants, or induce them in any improper way to give answersthey complimented me, and said the) statement I had made before the Magistrate was perfectly correct and impartial—Kelly said they carried on business there at a loss—I went to a desk and Kelly said "That is my desk, and those are memoranda written by me"—I counted about 60 memoranda—on the faces of them I saw the names of applicants for loans, and a certain amount of money written in figures, and the letter "R "written after it (produced)—I asked what the "R" meant, and said "It appears on the faces of these memoranda that there are a great many applicants for loans, and that they have paid a certain amount of money"—he said "I have received money in those cases you see marked in that way," and in passing them over he appeared to know each case, and made various remarks: "That inquiry is not yet finished;" to another, "We found that man to be a swindler, we could not grant him a loan"—I then picked up 182 of these prospectuses (produced), upon 178 of which money has been received—they are applications for loans, and are marked with the same letter "R" as the memoranda—I asked him to show me a single instance in all those where he had granted a loan—he said "I cannot without I examine my books"—I took the prospectuses and memoranda away—Airey showed me a book, and pointed me out the year 1876, showing that loans were granted, and in 1877 and 1878—I then said "There are eight months of the year 1879 passed, show me a single instance wherein you granted a loan this year"—he said then were none entered—in that book there was no entry whatever for 1879—Kelly went on one side of the desk, pulled down a file, and said "Here if a loan for 130l. granted this year"—I did not see it, any more than that it was a paper he held in his hand a few yards off—I did not take it—on my first visit I asked Airey where Kelly was—he said, "He is gone into the City to consult a lawyer in reference to a case we have in hand about a man named Wright, to whom we granted a loan; there are some horses of his at Mr. Rymill's, and we cannot get them; Mr. Noton is our solicitor, who acts for us"—I inquired about Mr. May, of 19, London Bridge Station Approach, but could find no one of that name—Kelly's private house is 12, Harrogate Road, South Hackney—this letter is in his handwriting. (Read: "Aug. 8,1878. Sir,—Re Wright. As I find on receipt of the auctioneer's statement after the sale of the horses that there is a balance due to me of 7l. 16s. 4 1/2 d. I must request that you send post-office order for the amount by return, and oblige yours faithfully, pro Henry May, H. W. Buer ".) From the 1st January to the 28th August, 1879, the loans applied for amount to 10,952l.—the preliminary fees only paid amount to 116l.

Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. I took all the prospectuses I saw—Airey said there'were no entries in the books for 1879—he did not say it was because the entries were in arrear.

Witmsses for tlte Defence.

WILLIAM WARREN . I live at 35, King Street, Cheapside—I have known Airey since these proceedings commenced, and Kelly and his family for some years—they have sent me on a good many loans—I am a capitalist and lend money on good security, and I have always been ready and willing to do so—I cannot tell how many loans the defendants hare,

sent on to me—I always thought Buer was the principal and Kelly the manager.

Cross-examined. I lent 40l. or 50l. to Mr. Cadman, in Bedfordshire, through Kelly's introduction, four months ago—I think that was the last; and to a man at Ramsgate six or seven months ago—there may hare been others during this year—I did not pay Kelly a penny for introducing the Bedfordshire loan to me—intending borrowers go first to the people who advertise, and if they think it good they send it on—I do not advertise—I never charge an inquiry fee unless I have to go a very long way—in the Bedfordshire case I only had a promissory note—his father 1 think ottered me security—I should think I charged him about 10l.—I had a bill of sale in the Kamsgate case—I don't remember what interest I charged—I never received 6d. from Airey in my life.

Re-examined. I presumed the applicants paid the defendants something for doing it or introducing them to some one else—the fees would form a great part of the income, but I imagined they lent money sometimes themselves—I remember one case this year when I refused point blank, and Kelly afterwards did lend the money.

ROBERT BENNETT . I am a capitalist of Sunderland Pottery, Broad Street, Ratcliff, and have known Airey for some time—prior to this year I had some conversation with him relative to being prepared to lend money—some two years ago I was prepared to lend 1,000l., and this year 500l.—Airey knew I was quite prepared.

WILLIAM BRIEBLT . I live at New Cross—in March or April last I borrowed 25l. of the defendants, which I have repaid—I also had a previous one of them, which I repaid.

Cross-examined. That was 50l.; about 18 months ago—I gave a bill of sale—the last loan I repaid by 5l. instalments—I gave a promissory note for that—I did not pay an inquiry fee on that—I think the bill of sale was registered—it was read over to me by a solicitor—I did not pay anything for stamps or 6s. 8d. to the solicitor—I am not a personal friend of the defendants—I sometimes paid the instalments by cheque on the Central Bank of London to my order.

Re-examined. I paid an inquiry fee of a guinea for the first loan.

JOSEPH BEALE . I have known the defendants as money lenders. for some time and have had two loans of them since 1878, amounting together to 200l. or 250l., which I have repaid.

Cross-examined. The last loan was in the spring of 1878—it was 100l. or 90l.—I signed several papers—a promissory note and a bill of sale—I repaid it by instalments—I am not a personal friend—I heard their names spoken of as money lenders—I don't recollect paying any inquiry fees—I paid the interest in advance, that was the only deduction made.

JOHN BOUCHIER . In the spring of last year I borrowed 50l. of the defendants, and gave an unregistered bill of sale—I have repaid the loan.

Cross-examined. I was told by Kelly that no other charge would be deducted, but at the last moment he deducted 1l. or a guinea for expenses—I repaid it by seven instalments of 1l. each.

Re-examined. I am here to subpoena.

GUILTY .— Nine Months' Imprisonment each.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-118
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

118. EDWARD CHARLES JAMES WHITE (16) PLEADED GUILTY to stealing, Whilst employed in the Poet-office, a letter containing a ring, the property of Her Majesty's Postmaster-General.

He received a good character.— Six Months' Imprisonment. And

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-119
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

119. WILLIAM WHITAKER (22) to forging and uttering a receipt for 8s., with intent to defraud.— Two Months' Imprisonment. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-120
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

120. ROBERT GARRETT (32) , Unlawfully making a fraudulent transfer of his property, with intent to defraud his creditors; other Counts varying the form of charge.


HENRY ALFRED STAGEY . I am Superintendent of Records in the Loudon Bankruptcy Court, and produce the file of proceedings in the prisoner's bankruptcy—he filed a petition for liquidation on 7th January, 1879—that fell through—on 4th February a bankruptcy petition was presented against him by Messrs. Nockard and Lowe—upon the 20th he was adjudicated bankrupt—on the 19th March) 1879, Mr. Minshall was appointed trustee—the prisoner's statement of affairs disclosed debts amounting to 742s. 7s. 2d. unsecured; secured, 130l.; stock in trade, covered by bill of sale, estimated at 4l.; book debts, 6l.; and property covered by bill of sale, 130l., weft all the assets—there were 30 creditors.

Cross-examined. Appended to the statement of affairs is ft list of It persons indebted to the estate, showing good debts 6l., and bid debts 146l. 16s. 6d.—the stock in traded at Pump Row, Spitalfietds Market, secured by bill of sale, is carried out without any pounds, shillings, and pence, and the word "abandoned "is written instead—the fnrniture, fixtures, and fittings at 79, St. Donatt's Road, New Cross, are estimated to produce 100l., secured by bill of sale—there is a copy of the shorthand writer's notes of the examination of witnesses at the private examination si 14th May—I also find on the file James Osborn, Clerk to Mr. Hkfa, solicitor, Robert Garrett, the defendant, Mr. S. Miller, George Harlow, the holder of the bill of sale, and Mrs. Garrett were all the witnesses examined on that day—on the 31st March there was an application by Sidney Chapman, solicitor for the trustee, for a private sitting for the examination of the bankrupt, Hicks, Osborn, and Harlow, and an appointment was made for 9th April, when all the witnesses except Hicks attended—no one attended for the trustee, and at 11.30 the witnesses were discharged, and ai parlies applied for their expenses—cinder date 23rd July application was made Mr. Sydney Chapman, of Fenchurch Street, on behalf of Charies Uinahuh, trustee, for an order that the trustee be directed to prosecute ths defendant for offences under the 11th section of the Debtors Act—there » also a memorandum on the file signed by Sidney Chapman, withdrawing the request under which it had been directed that the proceedings under the bankruptcy and the antecedent liquidation proceedings should be inspected under the bankruptcy—the petitioning debt relied upon is the act of bankruptcy in respect of fraudulent transfer of property.

Re-emmined. The trustee was represented by Mr. Burleigh Millar on the 14th May, and the debtor and various witnesses were examined, and upon the report oi the trustee the Registrar gave an order to prosecute.

GEORGE HARLOW . I first lent defendant 40l. about Christmas, 1877—the next bill was for 70s., the next for 30l., making 100l.; he gave me a new promissory note each time—befbre November last year he asked me to

advance hiin 30l.; I lent him 30l., on a bill of sale. (copy produced assigning all the stock, trade implements, utensils, household furniture, and other efeete belonging to the defendant.)

Cross-examined. I have known defendant since we were, quite, lads together—he was employed about 14 years in Spitalfields Marked fy Gregory and Co., salesmen—they parted with their business—defendant asked Gregory and Co.'s executors whether his setting up in the same market would be objected to—no objection was made to my knowledge—I have always believed defendant to be a thoroughly honourable manus wife is stricken with consumption) and for four months he was obliges to maintain her at Ventnor, and he went there at least three times to see her—she was obliged to have a nurse in the house, the infant being two or three years of age, and a general servant to attend to the house—I know he met with losses by potatoes becoming diseased before they could be turned into money—defendant, lived at 17, Malpae Road—the rent of the heuae was 32l. a year—I do not think he was extravagant in any way—he afterwards moved into lodgings in St. Donatt's Boad—the rent of a stall in Spitalfields Market is about 18s. to a guinea per week—the market tolls depend on the amount of business done—2l. a week; would not be an extravagant sum for tolls—part of the time he employed two men, hut later only one, and occasional assistants—the wages of that class of men ajpe about 23s. a week—I was examined at the Bankruptcy Court, and said that I lent him 40l. a few days after he started in business—I persuaded bini to start, and told him I would lend him some money at five per cent—the first bill was payable in about three months—the 30l. was not made absolutely in one sum, but during the time of the currency of the 40l. hill he had small sums to aid in his business—I have never deducted more than five per cent—the 70l. bill ran its course of two months, when I advanced the remainder to make up 160l.—he gave me a promissory oiote fsr the 100l., payable in three months—I did not putthe lulls into eirenjatioa—when he came for money I said "I cannot do that, Jkhs" or somethig of that sort, at first sight—I said I would think it over—in the meantime I aaw my solicitor, and then told defendant I wanted security—untfer thqee circumstances the hill was givens—I think the property more thin 75l.—at first the trustee opposed my bill of sejs, as a civil action, was peading—there was a change of sohqitors—the ciwj action was. defended first by Mr. Royal and afterwards by Mr. Sydney Chapman—thajt action was abandoned on the 9th December—the action was Harlow « Boson—Beson was the judgment creditor—he wanted to set aside my hill of sale as fraudulent.

Re-examined. The reason I took the bill of sale was that I wished to be secured.

GEORGE BLAQRAVE SNELL . I am ono of the official shorthand writers of" the Court of Bankruptcy—on the 14th May, 1879,1 took notes of the examination of the defendant by order of the Court—the original transcript of the notes is on the file of proceedings; they are correct.

JOHN LOWE . I am a potato salesman, of 20, Tooley Street, in partnership with Mr. Thomas Nockard, and am a creditor of the defendant—on the 5th November defendant came to make a purchase from us; I was, not present swears creditors for 35l.—was at the eremites' meeting on the 27th January at the Catherine Wheel in Bishopsgate Street—that meeting bloke

up, and subsequently our firm presented a petition in bankruptcy against defendant, in respect of which he was adjudicated bankrupt—defendant hid not had previous transactions with us—we have not been paid.

JAMES PAINE . I am salesman and foreman to Nockard and Lowe—on 5th November defendant bought 150 bags of potatoes, value 35l.—I am not aware of any previous transactions with him; I have known him many years—the credit was the usual credit of a week—he called once or twice afterwards, but did not buy anything—I have nothing to do with the collecting of the money.

THOMAS ALLEN THOMPSON . I am a potato salesman in Tooley street—I have known defendant some years—I knew he had gone into busines about December, 1877—on the 27th November he came to my place—I asked him how he got on—he said "Very well"—I said "Are you getting a living"—ho said "I am doing first-class"—he asked the price of potatoes, and I told him—my son showed him the potatoes, and he bought 100 bags at 5s. 3d. a bag on a week's credit—I have never been paid—I was induced to part with the potatoes by reason of having known his father for many years; also having his brother in my employ some time previously, and believing the family to be respectable, I had no hesitation in parting with the goods; I was anxious to sell my goods, having a large quantity—I first became acquainted with the fact that there was a bill of sale upon his property at the meeting of creditors in January—I would not have parted with my goods if I had known that the bill of sale was in existence.

Cross-examined. I received 8l. 8s. 10d. from him on the 16th November for 40 bags I sold on 31st October—I joined Messrs. Nockard and Lowe as petitioning creditor—we could not get any satisfactory answer or accounts at the first meeting at the Catherine Wheel.

JAMES CHARLES PERKINS . I am manager to James Day, potato salesman, Spitalfields Market—on 5th November I sold defendant 28 sacks for 13l. 13s. at a week's credit, and on the 18th November 17 sacks for 7l. 3d.—we have never been paid for either lot; that year had not been a particularly bad year—the defendant deals in a small way, and sells almost directly he buys—I have seen an ordinary sale-book in the defendants Stall—a kind of day book in which sales would be entered—I first heard of the bill of sale at the first meeting of creditors.

Cross-examined. On 27th October defendant paid us 40l.—I cannot say if he paid 12 guineas on the 17th November—the potatoes I sold him were at the Minories Station—the potato business is rather a speculative one if you buy growing crops.

Re-examined. The potatoes we sell at he good ones—the purchaser inspects the samples.

WILLIAM LITTLE . I am manager to Mr. Boberts, potato merebsnt, King's Cross—eft November 14th defendant lought one truck of potafcw weighing 4 tons 2 cwt. 2 qrs., value 23l. 8s. 1d.—I cid not know him previously—a week's usual credit was given—we have not received any money for those potatoes, as far as I know.

Cross-examined. Mr. Boberts sold the potatoes; I was present at the time; I would not swear that Mr. Boberts did not get a cheque for 18l. On November 11th.

Re-examined. I know the potatoes sold when I was present had not been paid for.

WILLIAM DINSEY . I am foreman to Wolfls and Jacobs, potato salesmen, Borough Market—on 18th November prisoner bought 50 bags of potatoes, value 13l. 15s., on the usual week's credit—on 22nd November he bought 200 bags for 50l.—they have not been paid for—we had dealings with him once before.

Cross-examined. I believe 27l. 10s. was one amount before these transactions—the endorsement of the cheque for 20l. of 18th May is in the governor's writing, and also for ill 17s. on the Hth June.

ARTHUR BEESON . I am a member of the firm of W. and A. Beeson, potato salesmen—on the 28th November defendant bought 100 bags for 25l. on one week's credit—that was our first transaction with him—we have never been paid—I believe our firm sued him, but I was away in Scotland at the time.

Cross-examined. Our place of business is at 9, Tooley Street—my father has had dealings with defendant—his is a separate place—at 45, Tooley Thomas Goldsmith. I was manager to Mr. John Scott on the 25th November—on that day prisoner bought 200 bags of potatoes for 400l.—there was a previous amount of 2l. 5s. due—on 3rd December he paid the 21l. 15s., leaving the 200 bag stfll owing for—we have never been paid for theps.

Cross-examined. I should think the 20l. 8s. 1d. paid on 21st June would be for horseradish, and in July 1st 12l. 13s. 1d. also for horseradish.

JOHN SCOTT . I am master of the last witness, carrying on business at 119 Drury Lane—I was not present when the 200 bags were sold—Is received the cheque produced for 21l. 15s. for the sale of potatoes previously.

Cross-examined. The cheque, dated the 20th June, for 20l. 8s. 4d. is to Mr. David Scott, not to myself-1 believe there is a potato salesman of that name—I sold defendant 200 bags in November, and those he never sent for.

CHARLES MINSHALL . I am an accountant, of 172, Fenchurch Street—I was appointed trustee under the bankruptcy—I have only realised 2l. from the book debts—the other book debts are bad—I have never disputed the bill of ssle; I have received the banker's pass-book from defendant—I asked him if he kept any other books in his business—he said he kept a memorandum-book, which he had left with his solicitor, Mr. Hicks—his purchases for the four months previous to filing petition were about 160s.

Cross-examined by Mr. Bbslsy, I have said the property included in the assignment constituting all he possessed was of less value than 75l.—I have not verified the banker's pass-book with the actual cheques—I have not been to the bank to get his paying-in slips—my charges are very low I have not done much; it is a small estate—no money was paid into'or drawn from the bank after the 31st December, except for legal expenses-in the banker's pass-book I find 249l. 18s., and then 20l. making 269l. to be taken from the total balance of 536l., so that he bought in the last month 165l. and paid away 270l. inhis trade—he was only allowed to overdraw his account once—his balances ranged from 70l., in October down to 32l.

MR. BESLET submitted that the 13th Section of the Debtors Act, on whidt the prosecution relied, had, not application to a bankrupt, and cited the Queen v. Boyd in support of that contention. He further contended that there me no evidence showing that the transfer of defendant's property wot in any way fraudulent. The COURT held that the words any person"in the 13th Section were wide enough to include a bankrupt, and that ike evidence as to the fraudulent character of the transfer must go to the Jury.


15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-121
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

121. GEORGE CKOSS (19) PLEADED GUILTY to unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

Before Mr. Justice Lindley.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-122
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentencesImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

122. ELIZABETH GRIFFIN (28) PLEADED GUILTY to feloniously setting fire to a dwelling-house, persons being therein also to stealing one lecloth, one clock, and other articles, the property of Caroline Griffin— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

15th December 1879
Reference Numbert18791215-123
VerdictNot Guilty > directed; Guilty > manslaughter

Related Material

123. DANIEL COLLINS (21) and MICHAEL COLLINS (23) , for the wilful murder of Timothy Shea DANIEL COLLINS was also charged on the Coroner's Inquisition with the like offence.

MR. TICKELL Prosecuted; MR. SOMERVILLI Defended.

MICHAEL COPLIN . I am a labourer of 66, Bccket Street, Camberwell—I know the prisoners, they are brothers—I do not know where they live bit their mother's house is in Nelson Street, Wyndham Road, Camberwell—on 8th November I saw Daniel in Nelson Sfreet, to the best of my belief between 5 and 6 o'olock—he was drunk, and his mother asked me to help him home, and going along Nelson Street we met Timothy Shea, who helped him upstairs with me, and when we got into the room Daniel challenged him to fight him-Shea said "I have not come up to this mom tongbt: I don't want no fighting"—Daniel asked him if he would take his brothers part, and Shea said If I had teen your brother wronged it is natural I would do so"—Daniel then up with his hat and struck Shea on his cheek; Shea did nothing and Daniel gave him a second blow on Shea "Come down," and he came downstairs very quietly and I saw no more—Daniel did not mention the name of the brother whose Dart Shea wag to take.

Cross-examined. I come from the same part of Ireland as Shea, and knew his father there, but I did not know the young ones, because they were not born then I have heard that Timothy Shea had just come out from eight years penal servitude on a tickct-of-leave; that his brother Jeremiah hai also been in trouble; and that Michael, the third brother, suffered imprison. ment but it is a long time ago—the father has borne the name of Wnea latterly-Timothy Shea did not look as if he had been drinkim? a little—it was not Daniel Collins who said "I don't want to fight," it was Shoa-Deniels mother was in the room-Shea was not rather violent when he not upstairs; he did not say to Daniel « You have got to fight my brother tomorrow, nor did Daniel say that he did not know if he should-Shea did not say "lou will have to fight me"—I did not hear it—I did not take Shea away to prevent his making an attack on Daniel—I am positive it was not Shea, who kicked up the bother—I have not made a mistake in the excitement-we had nothing to drink there—I left Sbea in Json Street.

MARY KELLY I live in Nelson Street, Camberwell—I was keeping

company with Timothy Shea, and on Saturday, 8th November) went with him to the South London Music Hall—we started at 7 o'clock and walked there; we left between 11.30 and 12 o'clock and walked home—when we got to Avenue Road I saw Michael Collins and two or three strange mon outside the Lord Clyde—Michael challenged the deceased to fight, and said "God Wind me, you cannot do me"—Shea said "Do you want to fight me too?" and asked him what reason his brother Dan had to take him upstairs and hit him—Michael then walked away and fetched his brother Daniel—we were not many yards from Collins's house—he came back with Daniel in five or six minutes; they came up, and Daniel deliberately struck the deceased in the face; he came up sideways and bit him unawares immediately; he staggered and nearly fell down, but not quite, but he had not time to recover, when Daniel hit him a second blow under the chin, and he went on his back in the middle of the road senseless—Shea had no time to defend himself from the blows—the two prisoners then went after him and hit him—Chappie was standing by—after the second blow the prisoners both said "That is the b——y to do for him"—they both used the same expression at the same time—Chappie ran away and the two prisoners came back to where the deceased was lying with such a rush that they must have meant to kick him—I said "Don't kick him, you have killed him already"—they did not say anything; but laughed and jeered—I asked a strange man to help me up with the deceased—that was not Chappie—we helped him up—blood was flowing from his nose, and we laid him by the side of the Lord Clyde public-house—he then helped me with him half way down the Avenue Road, where he lived—neither of the prisoners assisted us—the deceased kept saying "Oh, my head"—I met his eldest brother Michael and we got him indoors, but he fell down in the street where he lived and could not get up till his brother picked him up—he was quite sober and so were the prisoners—he was in good health before.

Cross-examined.. I first saw Shea at 5 o'clock that day in Kelson Street, standing by a beershop—we went and had a pot of stout at the Wyndham, and I left him there and went home to wash myself—I went back at 6. 30 and found him in the Windmill—I did not see his sister Hannah there, nor did I see her come out—I did not loiter about till she came out—I do not knew that she ever spoke to the deceased—no more beer was called for after I went back, but there was some in a pot, and I had some of it—it was not 6.30 the first time I went in—after leaving the Wyndham I went up Walworth Road and Wyndham Road—I did not turn up Crown Street and into the Sultan public-house—I know Eliza Baker, not Brigden, by name, but she is a stranger to me—I do not know her brother, a soldier—I did not go into the Sultan I went straight to the top of the lane—I did not see Eliza. Hrigden and her brother the soldier there—I saw her outside here to-day—the deceased did not want to fight the soldier—he was perfectly sober—I have not been in trouble for being drunk, but I got into bad company, and was fined 4l. 9s. or two months' imprisonment—I am not in the habit of being brought home drunk by men who have come home and stayed with me—I got into trouble with a young man, but I never proposed marriage to him—I had a child by him—he did not break off the marriage because of my abominable drunken habits and loose life—I work hard for my living—I know Chappie, and Allen who was at the police-court—I have not seen

Allen here; I do not think he was called at the police-court—I was not in the Nelson after 7 o'clock—I never saw the prisoner's sister all that Saturday—I did not have a pot of beer at the Nelson just before closing-time, nor was I refused to be served because it was just 12 o'clock—Shea's mother could not have called out at the window and abused him for being seen with such a woman as me; I was not in the street after 7 o'clock—our houses are opposite each other, 6 and 13—I did not go upstairs and take of my bonnet, and come back without bonnet, shawl, or hat—I did not say that I wanted a cup of coffee, or go along Walworth Road to a coffee-stall—we came straight back from the South London, which closed about 11.30, and this occurrence was between 1 and 2 o'clock, but we took our time—if we took the straight road it would not have taken us long to get home, bat we did not come straight; we came right through the Cut, and then straight home, but we took our time—I do not know how long a mile is—I had not been home when this occurred—I know Holland by sight; I did not see him with Michael Collins, and I should have seen him if he was there Shea and I did not meet Michael Collins and Holland at the Lord Clyde, nor did Holland offer Shea a drink of beer out of a bottle, nor did Shea refuse the beer, using a vulgar expression—Shea did not address Michael first—he did not say, "Where does your brother Dan live?"—he did not speak to him at all—Michael did not say, "What has that to do with you?" nor did Shea say, "I had a bit of a row with him this afternoon, and I want to have it out," or "I want to finish it up"—Michael did not say, "Why do you want to fight him "It is your brother he is going to fight"—he did not say, "I am going to fight you both"—Michael did not refuse to fetch his brother and say, "He is in bed, and I won't go," nor did Shea say, "If I you don't fetch him I will go and drag him out of bed;" it is all false—he did not become very abusive and want to fight Michael—Michael said nothing when he was going away; not a word passed about his going to fetch his brother—Michael was quite sober; he did not refuse to fight, and go away to avoid Shea's violence—I do not know why he went away—he was away five or six minutes—Shea did not pull off his coat to fight Michael and spar up to him, nor did he put it on again and take it off when he saw them coming back—Daniel did not come up very quietly and say, "What is it you want to fight me for?"—Shea did not say, "God blind me if I cannot do for you in two minutes"—I never knew him use a bad word since I knew him, which was two months, that is since he came out of prison-; he was on ticket of leave—they did not spar, nor did Shea hit Daniel in the' stomach and knock him over—I did not see Daniel on the ground—Chappie did not say, "That is right, hit him there and you will do for him"—Allen did not hold Shea's coat while the fight was going on; he never had it off—they had no fight at all—Daniel was in the road and Shea on the pavement—Shea did not rush at Daniel; he staggered back, and before he had time to recover he hit him again under the chin, and he fell in the middle of the road, but what you say never happened at all—I know Allen; he has been in penal servitude, and is, I believe, a ticket-of-leave man—I have not seen him here to-day—it was not Daniel and I who assisted Shea up, nor did Daniel appear very sorry for what had happened—the two were laughing and jeering all the time—Daniel hit Chappie, but I cannot say whether they both hit him; they both used the expression, "That is the b——way to serve him," at the same moment—the stranger left us when

we got half-way down Avenue Boad—Michael did not then come and offer to assist us—I know Mills, but not Burkett or Holland—there were two or three others there who were quite strangers to me.

Re-examined. Chappie and the stranger helped me, but no one else till we came to our own street, and then my brother Michael helped me—I was keeping company with Shea, and was not in a hurry to get home—Daniel came up Crown Street—he struck the first blow, when Shea was standing on the kerb—Shea was not quarrelsome that night, he appeared sober.

JOHN CHAPPLE . I am a labourer, of 2, Kelson Street, Camberwell—on 9th November, between 1 and 2 am., I was passing through Crown Street with another man to a coffee-stall, and saw Timothy Shea—I had before that seen Michael Collins, Mary Shea, and three or lour young men standing together at the Lord Clyde, and heard Michael say to Shea "God blind me, you cannot do me"—Shea said "What, do you want to fight too?"—and with that Michael walked away—he was gone two or three minutes, and returned with his brother Dan, who took off his coat and struck Shea in the face, and he went reeling into the road, and before he could regain his feet he gave him a blow under the chin, which knocked him backwards, and he fell on the back of his head in the road—Shea had not raised his arms to defend himself at all—when he struck the second blow Daniel said "That's the bleeding way to do them"—Michael then came and caught me, but Daniel did not touch me; Michael struck me, and I had to run away for my life, and I went and told his brother Jeremiah Shea—Timothy Shea was insensible after he was knocked down—he was sober—I did not see him again that night.

Cross-examined. I was walking past them, and my attention was attracted by a noise—when I got there the deceased was not abusing Michael—he did not take off his coat to fight, nor did I egg him on to get him to fight Michael—I was with Allen—I have not seen him here—I have talked to him since about it—he had just come out from penal servitude on a ticket of leave—I have not been in a reformatory; I was in Surrey Industrial School—I went there of my own accord—I could get out when I liked—I deserted from the militia, and got two months' imprisonment—I did not hear Shea ask Michael where his brother lived, or say that if he did not fetch him out he would drag him out, as he was determined to fight him—Shea was not violent, and he was quite sober—Mary Kelly had not—had a drop too much—I have never seen her have too much since I have known her—I do not know her very intimately—Shea did not take off his coat before they came up to him and hand it to Allen, nor did Allen hold it for him—Collins did not look excited when he came up, he walked up quick and hit him—he did not say "What do you want to fight me fori"—Shea did not say "We Lad a row this afternoon, and I want to finish it"—they did not shake hands—I only know what passed when I went up—it was not Shea who said "God blind me you can't do me," nor did he then square up to him—his coat was not off at that time—he did not say a word to Daniel—there was not a regular fight, nor did Shea get Daniel down and hit him in the stomach, nor did I say, "Hit him again and you will do him;" there was no fight at all—Shea was on the kerb and Daniel in the road—when the first blow was struck Shea was on the pavement, and Daniel standing in the gutter, below Shea, but he would stand taller—Shea was about my height, but the kerb is about 6 inches high—the man's back

was turned, and he gave him a round-handed blow and he fell in the road—Daniel appeared quite sober—I had not had a little drop that day—I am not a teetotaller—I did not help Shea up, I ran away, and they caught hold of me—I was hit by Michael—that was not because I had been urging on Shea to fight—Allen and I had not been acting as his seconds, one holding his coat and the other egging him on—three or four other men were there, but I don't know who they were.

Re-examined. Daniel Callins lives in Gay Street; not with his mother.

MICHAEL SHEA . I live at 12, Nelson Street, Camberwell—the deceased was my brother and lived with me—on Sunday morning, 9th November, I was with my brother Jeremiah, going towards the Lord Clyde—I saw both the prisoners in Crown Street, and discovered my brother Timothy lying en the pavement in Kelson Street—the girl Kelly was standing by—he was lying across the footpath with his feet in the road—I picked him up and said "Stand on your legs"—he said "I can't"—I said "Not stand on your legs 1"—he said "No, Mike, I am done"—I carried him home and put him to bed and went to look after my other brother, and while I was gone he started vomiting, and nothing came up but lumps of thick blood—he got worse, and went to Guy's Hospital on the Monday night—he was a healthy man while he was at Chatham, and he went to work after he came out—I had seen him before 6 o'clock that Saturday afternoon; he came down and stood outside the street door—I had to go out, and when. I came back I found Daniel Collins at my doorsteps wanting to fight my brother, but I did not hear what for—Timothy was not struck in my presence.

Cross-examined. Barnes is a nickname my father got when he was a child, and I have adopted it since I have been in trouble; that was many years ago—I saw Timothy first about 4.30; he did not look as if he had been drinking—he asked me to come round to the Sultan and have a bottle of lemonade with him, and I did so—I had' nothing stronger, but I believe he had a drop of beer—Kelly was not there—rwhen I went back Daniel was standing in the road, close to my door, stripped to his trousers—I did not lee him violent; I did not hear him say anything—wo live just a door off each other—he was at my door; his mother and his wife were at my place, and I heard them giving my brother good advice; telling him not to take notice of it, that he was drunk—I went indoors.

Re-examined. Neither of the prisoners told me why they quarrelled with my brother: they could owe him no animosity, because he nevee associated with them—I was in trouble in 1857 for being in had company and stealing. a piece of lead—Timothy did not tell me he had been to a wedding that day.

EDWARD PENNY . I was house surgeon at Guy's Hospital—on Tuesday, 11th November, just after midnight, I saw Timothy Shea, who had just been admitted—he was in a state of delirium—his face was bruised,. but there were no other outward symptoms—he remained delirious and insensible, more or less, till Friday, the 14th, when he died—I made a post-mortem examination, and found the back part of the base of the skull was broken, and the membranes of the brain acutely inflamed, which was the cause of death—the inflammation resulted from the fracture, which could be caused by his being knocked down backwards into the road—all the other organs were healthy.

Cross-examined. There was no outward contusion of the scalp—a violent

fall would not necessarily make a bump, and I did not see him till two days afterwards; there was no discoloration—the blood which was vomited must have come down from the skull to the throat, and must have then been swallowed—the post-mortem examination showed that it did not come from the stomach.

CHARLES ROBERTSON (Detective Officer). I took Daniel on Friday night, 14th November, and told him that Shea was dead, and he would be charged with causing his death—he said "Very well; it was a fair fight, and no foul play on either side; I am very sorry, not for what I have done, but in the way it has turned out."

FRANCIS BRYAN (Detective Officer). On Friday, 14th November, I took Michael, and told him it was for being concerned with his brother Daniel in causing the death of Timothy Shea at Crown Street, Camberwell—he said "Tea, I was there, and all I did was to go and fetch my brother Daniel, who was in bed; I never struck a blow."

This being the case for the Prosecution, the Couar considered that there me no ease against Michael Collins; and that as to Daniel Collin, the ease me reduced to one of manslaughter.


Witnesses for Daniel Collins.

JOHANNA COLLINS . I am the prisoners sister, and life with my mother St. 11, Nelson Street. (A plan teas hers produced, upon which the witness pointed out the different streets.) Gay Street runs out of Crown Street, and that is where Daniel Collins lived with his wife—Mary Kelly lives at 6 Kelson Street, and Timothy Shea and his wife at 13—that is not nest door but one to us, because the numbers do not run like that; we sire five doors off—Chappie lives at 2, Nelson Street—on Saturday, 8th November, about 1.30,1 saw Timothy Shea in Wyndham Road—he looked in at the window, and called me into the parlour, and said "What sire you going to have to drink t"—I said "What are you drinking i"—he asked me to have a bottle of ginger beer, and when I had drank it I said "I am going to the weddingn—that was at Mrs. White's, 16, Nelson Street—he had a quartern of whisky, and we went to the wedding together, 'and when we got there he sent me out for a gallon of beer—he then got up and began to dance, and the boards were wet, because the people were all drunk, and he slipped, and she back of his head went against the bedstead—he was intoxicated—at most Irish weddings it is not thought a successful wedding unless they get intoxicated—Shea was there from 1.30 till 3.30, when he left, but I remained—I only drank ginger beer; I do not like beer or spirits—I next saw Timothy Shea at 6 p.m.; I was in the wedding, and he was in the street—I heard some angry words outside; he was cursing and swearing, and when I went out I saw him just outside the door sparring in his shirt and trousers; his coat, handkerchief, and waistcoat were lying on the ground—I have no doubt that it was Timothy Shea; I spoke to Mm—I did not see my brother then, he was upstairs, but I went up to him and said "Tate, what is the matter?"—he said "Get away; God perish me blind I will wait on your brother all night till I catch him, and if I do not do him in two rounds, may I never put my hands up again"—I said "I would not fight if I were you; you know if you get licked where you will be sent to"—he said "I don't care if I get sent to where I was before; I will pay your brother before the night is out"—a policeman was

at the corner of Nelson Street, and I said "Put your clothes on; the policeman will lock you up if he sees you undressed in the street," and I put on his coat, handkerchief, and hat; and he said "Come up to the Windmill," and he called for some ginger beer and ale for me—Mary Kelly was not there then—two strange people were in the public-house who he gave a glass each to and drank the rest himself—that was at 6.20—I said "I will go home now"—he said "Don't go home just yet," and I stopped ten minutes longer—he said "What number does your brother live in Crown Street 1"—I said "Me don't live in Crown Street, and if I knew I should not tell you, because I don't want my brother to have any fight with you"—he wanted to go round to his house to call him out, and he said he would not rest till he had him out; he said "God perish me blind, I will go round and break every window in the house if he 'don't come out"—I said "You had better not do that, you will get locked up"—that was all that took place in the public-house—I then came home and Kelly came in as I came out, because she did not like me to be seen with Shea—I was intimate with him, and she did not like it—I saw her go into the public-house—I saw Shea again at 11.45 that night in the Nelson public-house at the top of Nelson Street—I was there with another young woman, having some ginger beer, and Shea came in with Kelly and called for ale and handed it round, and the landlord said "I won't serve you any more, it is too late, you won't have time to drink it"—that was about 11.58—we all came out together and walked half way down Nelson Street to No. 6, where Mary Kelly lives, and we stood there and the prisoner's mother looked out at the window and called her filthy names for being with her ion, and he picked up a stone, and was going to throw it at his mother, but I prevented him, and he called her a b——ugly old cow—he was not sober—I stayed half an hour against Mary Kelly's door, talking, and then she went upstairs, took off her hat, and camedown again, and said "I could drink a cup of coffee now"—he said "Well, come down to the coffee-stall and we will have it"—they said "Good night, Joannah," and went away and I did not see any more of them—when Timothy Shot had had a drop too much he was very quarrelsome—he used to say that he was the best man in Camberwell, and could fight any Englishman in Camberwell—he was fond of talking about fighting when he was drunk, but he was very quiet when he was sober.

Cross-examined. I do not know that my brother was quarrelsome too; it is always the nature of Irish people to be quarrelsome when they are drunk—Shea did not say what he wanted to fight for—he had not been at work that day, but he had money—I don't know where he got it—he was half drunk when he went to the Windmill, at 1.30—there was about 30 gallons of beer at the wedding, because all Irishmen who go to a wedding take a gallon of beer each—he was intoxicated when the landlady refused to serve him at two minutes to 12, but she refused because it was too late—he was quiet at that time; he and Mary Kelly came in by themselves—when he was sparring in his shirt and trousers he was fighting the air, and putting his hands up just as if there was a man to fight him—my brother Daniel was indoors at that time; he was drunk—I did not see Michael—I do not know whether he was drunk.

HONORA COLLINS . I am the prisoner's mother, and live at 11, Nelson Street—on 8th November, between 6 and 7 o'clock, I found my son Daniel

in Nelson Street very drunk—I led him home—I met Mr. Cockin and Timothy Shea, and my son said "Halloa, Shea, what will you have to drink 1"—he said "I have been drinking all day at the wedding, but don't mind haying a drop more"—we took him upstairs, and Cockin and Shea followed us up—I gave them a long stool to sit on and a chair, and I went and fetched half a gallon of beer, which cost 6d., and the first glass I gave to my son Daniel to pacify him—he drank it, saying to Shea, "Here's luck to you; you have to fight my brother to-morrow"—Daniel said "I don't know so much about that; I don't want to fight any one—he said "If you don't fight my brother you will have to fight me, for I am the best man," and then they had two or three angry words—they seemed wranglesoine to one another, and I caught hold of their two shoulders and pushed them outside my door and helped them downstairs—Cocking went down too—Cocking was underneath him, and I held one shoulder and Cocking the other, and when he got downstairs he threw off his clothes like a 'madman, and me and my daughter picked up his clothes and helped to put them on him—my son was not stripped in the street; he never came downstairs—Michael was at the door, and he can prove that Shea threw his clothes off in the road—when I was taking him home he did not try to fight any one but a poor man—he did not threaten Shea; at that time they were friendly, and Shea said "I will put my clothes on for you and your daughter, for there is not a woman I will have in the world for a wife only her."

Cross-examined. I had not been to the wedding—Daniel was very drunk—Shea was the worse for drink; not so drunk as Daniel, and I thought he would think I would not wish him to have a glass of beer—we are good-natured people, and we give to one another—Cocking was not so drunk as Shea and Collins, but he is a dreadful old drunkard—I have known him 25 years—I asked him to help him upstairs, but he only helped him to the door—there was no blow in my place, but there would have been; if I had not pushed Shea out the quarrel might have come to blows—it was about my son having to fight Jeremiah Shea in the morning—Timothy Shea did not say "I have not come to this room to fight; I don't want no fighting," nor did Daniel say "Will you take your brother's part?" nor did Shea say in my hearing "If I saw my brother wronged it is natural I should go for the police," but I went out to get the beer and I handed my son the first glass—the quarrel arose when the beer was being drunk—they were quite sociable when I came back with the beer—he must have been drunk when he pulled off his clothes—Daniel went to bed upstairs—I was not at home when his brother came to fetch him.

ELIZA BRIGDEN . I am married, and live at 26, Sultan Street, Camberwell—I knew Timothy Shea by sight and Mary Kelly—I saw them on 8th November in the Sultan public-house, opposite where I live, between 7 and 9 o'clock; I cannot exactly remember—my brother and my husband sod cousin were with me—my brother is a soldier, stationed at Aldershot—Timothy Shea came in with a young woman—they had something to drink, and Shea apologised to me for hitting my brother—I did not see the quarrel, but he said that he hit him and threw my husband in the road, and he said if there was an Englishman that could take it out of an Irishman he was to come out of the Sultan public-house and try, alluding to my husband—I have no doubt that that was Timothy Shea, and Kelly took me into the public-house with her—it was on the Saturday as he had the disturbance with Collins on Sunday morning—I am sure of that.

Cross-examined. I have sworn that I am married; I may as well say I am for I Bhould be—it is not true it was 7 o'clock when I went into the Sultan, and I saw Timothy Shea there for three-quarters of an hour—I did not see Mary Kelly there all the time—I did not see her when I went to see what the disturbance was—my brother is not here—I did not see the disturbance between Timothy and my brother and my husband, but I saw Shea in the act of taking his coat off—I was not called at the police-court—my brother is at Aldershot, and my husband is at work and not here—I did not know that I was coming till last night when I was subpœnaed—I knew Shea by sight, and had seen him standing at his own door.

WILLIAM HOLLAND . I am a lather, and live at 9, Cumberland Place, Camberwell—between 1 and 1.30 on Sunday morning, 9th November, me and Michael Collins were together, and Timothy Shea and Mary Kelly were standing at the corner by the Lord Clyde; Shea called Michael across the road to him, and said "Where does your brother Daniel live?"—I said "Will you have a drop of beer out of this bottle," which I had under my arm—he said "No, I don't want your beer"—Michael said "What do you want my brother Dan for?"—he said "I want to fight him"—Miehael said "What do you want to fight him for, Tate?"—he said "Him and me had a bit of a row this afternoon, and I want to finish it out, will you go and fetch your brother Dan out?"—he said "No, I will not"—Shea then took off his coat, and said to Michael "I will fight you," taking his coat partly off—Michael said "No, I shan't fight you; I don't get my living by fighting"—Shea said "Will you go and letch your brother Dan I"—he said "No, and walked away, and I saw him ten minutes or a quarter of an hour afterwards with Daniel Collins—while he was conet stood with a bottle of beer under my arm talking to a friend named Mills—I had no conversation with Shea or Kelly in the interval—when the two prisoners returned Shea pulled off his coat, waistcoat, and hat—he had been drinking—Daniel said "What do you want to fight me for, Tate i—Daniel did not seem excited or anxious to fight; he seemed to me to try to make peace as much as he could—Shea said "You and me had a bit of a row this afternoon, and I want to finish it out"—Shea and Daniel then shook hands, and Daniel took off his coat and Shea said "God strike me dead, if I cannot finish you in two rounds I will never put my hands up any more," and with that they sparred, and Shea struck Daniel in the stomach, and he fell in the road—that was the end of the first round—they sparred again, and Daniel said "Well, that is one for you, Tate" meaning that he had knocked him down the first blow,—Chappie then said "Give him that again and you will do it"—they sparred again, and both struck out together, and Collins being longer in his reach then Shea, struck him, and he fell, and he and Mary Kelly and Allen helped him up, and Mary Collins took him home—Chappie seemed greatly interested in it; he was dancing about as if he should like to see a fight with one of them, and said "I hope to Ch—if he comes down you will kill him," and I heard him say that he could kill him—neither Chappie or Shea seemed sober—I do not say anything about Allen, but he was seconding Shea, backing him up, and saying go on, and holding his coat, and Michael held Shea's hat and waistcoat—after Daniel helped Shea up he was led away, and Chappie threw the coat across his shoulders, and a strange man came up, and he and Mary Kelly assisted him home—he walked be tween the two of them.

Cross-examined. I had not been to the wedding—I was perfectly sober at 12 o'clock—I had a half-gallon bottle of beer under my arm—I am not a friend of one side or the other—I have not been living in Mrs. Collins's house since the committal, nor have I been constantly in the prisoner's company—it is not true that Michael said to Shea God blind me, you cannot do me"—Daniel took off his coat after Timothy took off his—Collins struck no blow in the first round, and only one blow in the second round—there were only two blows struck in then btc-'Shea hit Daniel, and Daniel hit Shea—there was no more than that—I cannot say "where the one blow struck Shea, but Chappie said "Hit him there again, and you will do him," and he made to hit him in the stomach—he was hit in front of the face and there was only one blow, and then he fell down, bat was not insensible, because he got up and said to Mary Kelly, "Take me home, my head aches"—Chappie ran away as soon as Shea fell, and Michael ran after him, but Daniel did not—I did not see Michael strike him—I do not know whether Michael came back—I saw him at the top of Saltan Street with his wife—Chappie and Daniel did not say to my knowledge after the blow was given, "That's the way to serve him"—I did not see them go to Shea to kick him—Daniel seemed sober, but Shea and Kelly seemed as if they had had something to drink—Daniel is a taller and stronger man than Shea was—I was not called before the Magistrate—I did not know where Shea lived—I had never seen him since he came out from his ten years—I knew where Daniel lived.

Re-examined. Michael did not laugh and jeer at Shea after he was down.

EDWARD MILLS . I am a carman, of 19, Cumberland Place—early on Sunday morning, 19th November,.! was going home, and saw Mary Kelly, Michael, Allen, Timothy, Shea, and another man whose name I don't know, near the Lord Clyde—I heard Shea ask Michael to go and fetch his brother Dan as he wanted to fight him; Michael said, "What' do you want to light him fort"—he said, "We had a bit of a row this afternoon, and I wish to finish it out, will you go and fetch him?"—Mwtosi said "No"—he polled off his coat and said, "If you don't go and fetch 'him I will fight you"—Michael said "No, you can't fight me, I do not get my living at it," and went away, and Shea put his coat on again—Michael returned in ten minutes or a quarter of an hour with Daniel—I was then talking to Holland—Daniel went up to Shea and said, "Do you want fought me?"—Shea used a great deal of language before they came up, and directly he saw Daniel coming up the street he took his coat off, and he and Drtniei shook hands—Daniel did not appear anxious to fight; he said, "I don't know what you want to fight me for"—Shea said, "God perish me dead if I cannot do you in two rounds if I never put my hands any more;" and they sparred, and Shea hit Daniel first and knocked him down—they stood up again, and Daniel hit Shea, and he fell, and did not get up till Kelly and Ailed assisted him and stood him up against the Lord Clyde public-house—Daniel used no violent pressure to Shea, nor did he laugh and jeer at him, he said nothing—Shea was assisted towards his home by Mary Kelly and an old gentleman, and Daniel went home—when Shea hit Daniel, Chappie said, "Hit him there again, and you will do him"—Chappie held his coat when he first took it off, and afterwards Allen.

Cross-examined. I saw Chappie run away, but I did notice either of them run after him, nor did I see them return and attempt to kick Shea—I

heard of Shea's death on Friday morning, and there was an inquest—I was there but they did not call evidence—Daniel knew that I was there, but did not call me as a witness, nor was I a witness at the police-court; I was not asked, and I did not offer to give evidence—Michael was with us, but Daniel was in custody, he was committed for trial by the Coroner; but Michael was not—I have not known them long, only passing the turning where I live—I have never been convicted—ray father did not turn me out of his house, I left, I did not agree with ray brothers—only two blows were struck; Daniel was struck in the stomach the first blow, and he hit Shea in the front part of his face.

Re-examined. When Shea was knocked down Kelly said "Dan, don't hit him any more, as I think he is done for already"—he was on the ground then, and Daniel was half a dozen yards away—Shea did not say that is consequence of Daniel attempting to kick him.

CHARLES BURKETT . I travel in the ginger beer line, and live at 14, Red Lion Mews, Wandsworth—early on Sunday morning, 9th November, I was going home, and saw Shea opposite the Lord Clyde taking off his coat to fight Michael Collins—I knew him by sight; the young lady with him persuaded him not to fight, and he did not—Michael said "I shan't fight," or something like it—Shea was very obstinate, and used bad language—he was not sober, or he would not have raged so—the two Collins returned together, and Shea took off his coat before they came up—he had taken it off, and put it on again—they had some words, and fought—Daniel was knocked down first; he got up, and knocked Shea down, and that was tile finish—Daniel helped Shea up after he had laid there a minute—he did not attempt to kick him, nor did I hear him use bad language—I am not intimate with the Collinses; I know them by sight—I am here by subpoena.

Cross-examined. I did not hear the woman say "Don't do any more; he is dying"—he did not attempt to do any more; two rounds were fought, one blow was struck in the first round" Collins Was struck in the body, and went down—not many-blows were struck in the second round; Shea was struck in the head, and fell down in the middle of the road—I heard of the inquest, but did not give evidence, as it came so suddenly, and I could not leave at five minutes' notice—I knew the prisoners Were charged, but I thought they would get on without me—I should not have come here had they not pushed me.

JAMES ALLEN did not appear.

HONORA COLLINS (Re-examined). My daughter-in-law and I went to James Collins's door to serve him with a subpoena, but we could not; I, gave three knocks, and heard him say "There is old Mother Collins coming with a summons; tell her I am not at home"—I knocked at the door gently—his mother said "What do you want?"—I said "Give this to your son."

Cross-examined. My sons were defended at the police-court by Mr. Alfred May—I did not subpoena the witnesses there as I had no money—I had to Work till I got it—I had the money for the solicitor—I put off serving the subpoena till last night, as I had money coming to me, which I did not get till yesterday morning.

MICHAEL COLLINS (The acquitted Prisoner). Early on the Sundjf morning I was with Holland.; we stopped against the Lord Clyde, and Shea and Mary Kelly came up; we had Half a gallon of ale in a jar; Shelf used a foul expression, and would not have any, and he said "Here, I want

you; where does your brother Dan live?"—I said "What do you want to know for"—he said "I had a row with him this evening, and I want to finish with him; will you go and fetch him?"—I said "It's not likely, as he is in bed—he said "I hear you are a better man than you brother, I will fight with you, and took off his coat, and threw it down—I said "No, you won't fight me, you can hit me if you like," and walked away, and left him, and went to my brother's house, and said "Ban, Timothy Shea stopped me, and said he wasted to fight you, and if I don't fetch you out he-frill pull you out of bed—he said "1 don't want him to come here and get me out of this place; I will go and see him, and get him to put it off till to morrow"—he lived with his brother-in-law, who is in the submarine telegraph office—he got up and dressed, and went book with me to Shea, who had his coat, waistcoat, and cap off, and said come on, you are just the bloke I am waiting for," and started sparing—my brother threw off his coat, and I picked it up—Shea struck my brother somewhere in the body, and knocked him three or four yards—he fell on the kerb, and broke his braces—he got up; they sparred in front of each other; they bott struck at the same time, and Shea fell in the middle of the read—Chapple held Shea's clothes, and gave them to Alien, and said "Hit him again, and you will do him"—my brother and Allen helped Shea up; Kelly stood there, but I did not see her put her hand to him—my brother, said he was very sorry, and he did not want to fight him at all—my brother was not anxious to fight.

Cross-examined. Shea knew the street my brother lived in, but not the house, and I did not tell him, but I went to my brother's house, as I wanted something to wrap my child in, which was to be christened in the afternoon—on my oath I did not go my brother's bouse to bring him back to fight Shea, as I was man enough for it myself without my brother—Shea wanted to fight me before I left, but he did not strike me—it did not strike me to say "Don't go out and meet that infuriated drunkard; he does not know where, you live"—there was an advantage in his going out, because if Shea came round kicking up a row at my brother-in-laws house my brother would have been turned out on Monday—my brother might have gone out to try and put it off till morning—my brother and I did not attempt to kick Shea—I ran after Chapple, as he was urging the other man on, and if I had caught him I would have struck him—my brother did not run after him; he was picking Shea up—Kelly did not say "For God's sake don't do any more; you have nearly killed him; how could she?" I nad not struek him—there were two rounds, and there might have been two blows struck in the first round; in the second round they struck one another's faces together—only one blow was struck at Shea's face in the second round—I did not try to raise Shea, as my brother and Ellen were doing so—he walked home between Kelly and a stranger—I had had a drop, but Was sober—I heard that my brother had been tipsy in the afternoon, but he had time to get sober between 6 and 1 o'clock, and perhaps lying down did him good—I did not want to fight him, and I did not want my brother to do so.


Recommend to mercy by a majority of the Jury on account of the provocation teemed.— Four Months' Imprisonment.


View as XML