Old Bailey Proceedings.
10th February 1879
Reference Number: t18790210

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Old Bailey Proceedings front matter.
10th February 1879
Reference Numberf18790210

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A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two start (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoner's age.


NEW COURT.—Monday, February 10th, 1879.

Before Mr. Recorder.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-194
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

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194. HENRY JONAS SMITH was indicted for unlawfully making certain false entries in the books of James Wilkie Adamson and another, his employers.

MR. BESLEY, for the Prosecution, offered no evidence.


10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-195
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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195. GEORGE THORNTON (52) , Stealing one box, six umbrellas, and 100 cravats, of Alfred Henry and others.

MR. PURCELL Prosecuted.

JOHN ROWAN (City Police Sergeant). On the afternoon of 7th January I saw the prisoner in Jewin Street with a barrow behind a carrier's van—a man not in custody pulled a case off the tail of the van into the prisoner's barrow, who went on to Aldersgate Street, where I stopped him—he said, "You did not see me take it"—the other man ran down Jewin Street and escaped.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I was not 3 yards from you when you received the case—when I took you, you let go of the handles of the barrow and tried to get away, but you only got 1 yard—the case weighed 1/2 cwt.

JOHN PRYOR . I am a carman in the employ of Nolan and Co., of Billiter Street—I received this case from Messrs. Buckingham, and placed it at the back of the van—I did not miss it till information was given to me.

WILLIAM GOLDSBOROUGH . I am a packer to Nolan, Buckingham, and Co.—I packed in this case (produced) six umbrellas and 100 cravats, which were their property.

GUILTY . He was further charged with a conviction at Clerkenwell in September, 1864, of being found by night with housebreaking implements, to which he

PLEADED GUILTY.**— Seven Years, Penal Servitude.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-196
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty

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196. JOHN ROBINSON (38) PLEADED GUILTY to stealing a back-gammon board, a box of dominos, and other articles, of Edward Gordon Smith ; also to feloniously forging and uttering a request for the delivery of goods, with intent to defraud.— Nine Months' Imprisonment. And

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-197
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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197. FRANCIS ROBINSON (17) to unlawfully obtaining by false pretences 15 yards of silk from Charles Candy and 14 yards of silk from Francis Cook and others.

Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutors. Judgment Respited. [Pleaded guilty: see original trial image]

THIRD COURT.—Monday, February 10th, 1879.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-198
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentencesImprisonment; Imprisonment

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198. WILLIAM JENKINS (67) and ALFRED SAMUEL JENKINS (25) PLEADED GUILTY to forging and uttering a receipt on a Post-office Savings Bank warrant for 1l. 14s. with intent to defraud; also to forging and uttering a notice of withdrawal for 1l. 14s. 4d . ALFRED SAMUEL JENKINS— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

WILLIAM JENKINS— Four Months' Imprisonment.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-199
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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199. JAMES JOSEPH BURKE (18) to stealing, whilst employed in the Post-office, a post letter containing a post-office order for 5s.; also a letter containing a cheque for 50l.; also a letter and 60 penny postage stamps, the property of H.M. Postmaster-General.

The Prisoner received a good character.— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-200
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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200. HENRY ALLEN (37) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.


MARIA MANDELL . I am barmaid at the Robin Hood public-house, High Holborn—on 15th January the prisoner came and asked for half a quartern of rum, and tendered a two-shilling piece—I saw it was bad at once—I showed it to Mr. Lindley, the landlord—he examined it in my presence, and gave it back to me—I had my eye on it all the time—I took it back to the prisoner and said, "Do you know if this is a bad one?"—he said "No"—he put it in his pocket and gave me a good shilling, and I gave him change, sixpence, four pennies, and a halfpenny—a constable was sent for, and the prisoner was given into custody—the florin produced is the same—I bit it.

SAMUEL TOZER (Policeman E 178). I took the prisoner into custody—I told him the charge and said, "Will you give me the coin which you passed?"—he did so—he said nothing—I marked it; this is it—I searched him, and found on him a fourpenny piece, a sixpence, and 8 1/2 d. in bronze, all good money—I took him before the Magistrate—he was remanded and discharged.

THOMAS KEMP . I am manager of a coffee tavern, 143, Drummond Street, Euston Square—about 5.40 on the evening of the 29th January I was called by our servant, Mary Ann Ross, who showed me a bad shilling—I saw the prisoner through the window running in the street—I followed and caught him, and held him till the policeman came, and I gave him in custody—on catching the prisoner I said, "You come back to the shop with me"—he said "What for?"—I said, "I shall give you in custody for uttering a bad shilling," and with that the policeman came—the prisoner made no reply—I gave the shilling to the policeman then—this is it (produced)—it was bent by Ross in the tester—I had it in my hand the whole time.

MARY ANN ROSS . I serve in the coffee-shop—on the 29th January the prisoner came in and asked for a penny bun—he handed in payment a bad shilling—finding it was bad I went and showed it to Mr. Kemp in the parlour, leaving the prisoner in the shop—when I returned he was gone—Mr. Kemp went after him—I gave Mr. Kemp the shilling—that is it.

THOMAS FLOOD . I live at 28, St. Pancras Square—I am an army pensioner

—I was at this coffee-house on the evening of 29th January, and saw the prisoner there eating a bun—I saw him hand a shilling to the barmaid, and saw her put it into the tester—when she did so the prisoner laughed, and the moment she turned to go to the manager he stooped down and ran out of the door.

THOMAS SEARLE (Policeman S 246). On passing Mr. Kemp's shop I saw a crowd a little lower down, and saw Mr. Kemp holding the prisoner—he gave him into custody—I took him back to the shop—he said, "Why should I want to pass bad money, when I have good money in my pocket?"—I said, "Why did you run away?"—he said, "I saw the other man run and I ran too" (meaning Kemp)—I found a good two-shilling piece and fivepence in coppers on him—I received the shilling from Mr. Kemp.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am Inspector of Coin to the Mint—these are a bad florin and a bad shilling.

Prisoner's Defence. "I did not know the money was bad."

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-201
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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201. ALFRED FERNS (18) for a like offence.

MESSRS. CRAUFURD and LLOYD prosecuted; MR. BESLEY Defended.

JOSEPH WIBLEY . I assist in the coffee-shop of Mr. Lacey, in the Kings-land Road—the prisoner came there on the 15th January and asked for half a pint of coffee and a slice of bread-and butter—the price was 1 1/2 d.—he tendered in payment a 2s. piece—I gave it to the waitress, Louisa Barrett—she gave me the change, and I took it to the prisoner—he left half the coffee and bread-and-butter, and I came into the shop again and he was gone—I saw Mr. Lacey the same afternoon put the coin on the top of the stove—the stove was red hot—the coin melted and went into the ashes—I saw the prisoner on the 22nd in the shop—Mr. Lacey called me in to recognise him.

Cross-examined. It was 2 o'clock in the afternoon when the prisoner came in—there were about four other customers there—I recognised him by the scar on his neck—he was there about a quarter of an hour—the coffee is kept ready—he was there about five minutes after I gave him the change.

By the JURY. I showed the coin to my master on the date of the first offence, Wednesday—they were both Wednesdays—the burning of the coin was on the Saturday.

LOUISA BARRETT . I am waitress at Mr. Lacey's—the last witness on Wednesday, the 15th January, brought me a florin—I was in the parlour having my dinner—I gave him 1s. 10 1/2 d. change—I remained in the parlour—I did not see the prisoner—I gave Mr. Lacey the florin—I had put it down before me on the table—I had no more money with me—when Mr. Lacey came the prisoner had gone—Mr. Lacey melted the florin on the stove on the Saturday night—from Wednesday to Saturday the coin had been lying on the dresser shelf by itself—the prisoner came on Wednesday, the 22nd—he asked for a cup of tea and a slice of bread-and-butter—it came to 2d.—he handed me in payment a 2s. piece—I began to give him his change, but in my flurry I was not quite certain whether I gave him all—I put down some change and took it up again—I thought the coin was bad—Mr. Lacey was at the end of the shop—I took the coin to him—he held it in his hand and bent it in his teeth—he called the boy up, and he recognised the prisoner as the man who came in the previous week.

Cross-examined. I carry the money in my pocket, but I had given up all the dinner-money that I had taken, and I had only my change for the afternoon—they give me 2s., sometimes 3s., for change—I cannot remember how much on that day—the prisoner was the first that came in after I gave up the dinner-money—I cannot remember what money I received next—the 2s. piece was brought to me by the boy Wibley—Mr. Lacey had the coin from the 15th—it was put on the shelf in the kitchen by Mr. Lacey soon after the prisoner left, about 3 o'clock in the afternoon.

GEORGE LACEY . I keep the coffee-house—on 15th January the last witness brought me a 2s. piece—I examined it and found it was bad—I pot it on the dresser shelf in the kitchen—it was constantly under my sight during the day—it lay there till the Saturday night, when I broke it up in three pieces and put it on the stove—it was an American stove with two or three open tops for grilling—the florin melted away and ran down amongst the ashes through the holes—I afterwards saw the prisoner on 22nd January, about 2 o'clock—Louisa Barrett handed me the coin produced—I handed it to the police-constable—I told the prisoner it was bad—he said "I did not know it; I received it from a gentleman for carrying a parcel"—I told Wibley to go and see if he knew anybody in the shop.

Cross-examined. At the police-station he said he was last employed at Shaw and Son's, Fine Art Publishers, Rathbone Place, Oxford Street—I have not been there or inquired into his history—I did not hear he had been an inmate of the London Orphan Asylum, and afterwards under the supervision of Mr. Biddulph's Club for Indigent Boys—I have heard of such a society—the prisoner told me he had been out of work since August, and that the coin was given to him by a man for carrying a parcel.

DOUGLAS SWIFT (Policeman M 242). I was called to Mr. Lacey's shop on the 22nd January, and the prisoner was charged with passing two bad florins there—one on the 15th, and the other on the 22nd—he said "It was not me that was here last week, and I will be searched here directly if you think I have got any more upon me"—then he said "I got it for carrying a parcel for a gentleman"—I took him into custody, and on searching him at the station I found one penny piece upon him—Mr. Lacey handed me the florin.

Cross-examined. This is the first time I have said that the prisoner denied being there on the 15th.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This is a bad florin—a good florin would not melt on a stove as described.

Cross-examined. It requires a white heat to melt silver—you would not get that in an open fire.

Witnesses for the Defence.

THOMAS BENT . I am managing common-law clerk to Mr. Braikenridge, solicitor—I have had the management of this defence—Mr. Biddulph, the banker, is governor of the St. Andrew's Home, and has also started a Club for Indigent Boys, and of which he is secretary—it is through him I am instructing counsel in this case—I have been to Shaw and Son's, and had a letter from them about this boy—Mr. Biddulph is not here—he knows the boy—the case was left to me, and I did not see that his presence was necessary—he knows the prisoner was an inmate—the prisoner's only near relatives are a mother, who has been in the hospital, and a brother at sea.

Cross-examined. I know nothing of his distant relatives—he was not in the home at the time this took place—I think not for some months previously

—I believe he had been doing nothing for some weeks—he left Messrs. Shaw last autumn—he left the home, I believe, in March, 1877—he had been with Messrs. Shaw since he left the home—I do not know what he has been doing since.


OLD COURT.—Tuesday, February 11th, 1879.

Before Mr. Justice Hawkins.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-202
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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202. AARON MARKS (35) , Feloniously setting fire to his dwelling-house, one Rachel Kruntz being there in. Other counts for attempting to set fire to the house, with intent to defraud.


CAROLINE ROBINSON . About a year ago I came from Baltimore, and was servant to Mr. Levy, a bootmaker, at 19, Old Montagu Street—about seven months ago Mr. Levy went to lodge at Artillery Passage, and I went with him—about five months ago I left his service, and went into the prisoner's service at 19, Old Montagu Street—he is a tailor—I remained there till the fire happened—that was on 24th December, the day before Christmas Day—I slept in the basement, there is a kitchen there—there are two rooms on a floor—on the ground-floor there is a shop and parlour, on the first-floor is a front room where there was a sofa where the prisoner used to sleep, and a back room, a bedroom, where the prisoner's daughter used to sleep—she is a girl of about 14, and a Miss Moss, a neighbour's daughter, used to sleep with her—on the second-floor were the workrooms, the back room was where the machine was—there were no rooms above—on the 24th at 1 o'clock the prisoner's daughter and Miss Moss went to Stratford to see some friends—I was in her bedroom that morning and attended to it, the bed was made, and the room left all right—there was some paraffin in the house, in an ordinary pint bottle—I had bought a pint about a fortnight before, it was used for a night lamp in the daughter's room—it was kept underneath the dressing-table in the bedroom—I saw it there that day—I am sure it was not on the mantel-piece—the door of that room was always kept locked—I used to lock it, and the key was kept downstairs in a table-drawer in the kitchen—there was no fire in the bedroom that day, we never had a fire there—I was in the workroom that afternoon—there was a coke fire in the grate there—there were three workmen at work there that day—near about 3 o'clock the prisoner told me to put on my things and take some work to the shops—there were two bundles in the workshop—one was for Mr. Keen, of London Wall, and the other for Mr. Croft, of Shepherdess Walk, City Road—the workmen all left at 3.30—Morris was the last one to leave—the prisoner went out before him, directly he had told me to take the work to the shops—I was the last in the house—I put on my things, and took the bundles—I left no one in the house—it was 3.45 when I left—I had a key of the street door—it closes on the latch by slamming it—I took the key with me to let myself in when I returned—I delivered the bundles at Mr. Keen's and Mr. Croft's, and returned to the house after 6 o'clock—I found there had been a fire, and the engines and firemen were there—I kept my key in my pocket, and afterwards gave it up to the police—this is it (two keys produced)—the prisoner used to have the other key sometimes, and sometimes his mother-in-law, Mrs. Kruntz, had it—she had it that day—she

lives at 16, Finch Street, Spitalfields, not far off—I could walk there in three minutes—she did not live at our house—she used to bring her husband's tea—he is a tailor, and worked for the prisoner—I know she had the key that day, because after the fire the firemen asked Mr. Marks for the key, and he went to his mother, and took it, and gave it to the fireman—that was after 9 o'clock that night—the daughter came home after 11 o'clock.

Cross-examined. The prisoner left the house before'me with a man named Friedenberg—I had bought paraffin before this—we use it to the machine mixed with oil—that was what I bought it for, and for the night lamp—I was not kept at the places where I delivered the goods—I was not tied to time—I did not hurry myself—I had not used the bottle for a couple of nights—the lamp had been supplied from the pint of paraffin for a fortnight—it is a very small lamp—this is it (produced)—it was used every night when I turned off the gas at the meter.

Re-examined. I sometimes used to let in the mother, and sometimes she would have the key with her and open it herself—I did not notice what quantity of paraffin there was in the bottle the last time I saw it—it was not empty.

By the COURT. It was lighted at 12 o'clock at night and kept burning till 6.30, when I went to wake the girl—the other paraffin oil was kept in a smaller bottle in the workshop—there were only two keys that I know of.

GEORGE WALTON . I am a builder, and live at 17, Old Montagu Street, next door to the prisoner—on the evening of 24th December, about 5.40, I heard an alarm of fire—I went into the street and saw fire and smoke coming from the second-floor front room window of No. 19, and the door was wide open—I went in and went upstairs to the second-floor front room; I found fire on and over and under the table—the window was open—there was no fire in any other part of the room; the table itself was on fire; there was more smoke than blaze—there was no fire in the grate—I then came down to the first-floor landing and went into the front room; the door was open—there was a couch in the room—I found an old lady there, she is outside now, she might be between 50 and 60 years of age; I think she had on a cap or kind of bonnet—she was in a stooping position; what she was doing I could not discern; there was no light in the room—I told her to come out, as the place was on fire—she said something in reference to a child, in consequence of that I felt round the room as far as I could, there was no child there—I had placed the woman towards the door near the staircase, and I then caught hold of her and carried her downstairs and into a neighbour's house opposite—she was no doubt able to walk, but she might have been confused—before I carried her down I noticed that the light was beginning to show through the floor where the gaspipe was—I returned to the house, hearing of an old man being in the back room—I went upstairs again and went into the second-floor back room; the door was locked; I burst it open—there was no fire there—as I came downstairs there was a policeman at the door—I then went to my own house and got on to the roof to look after my own property—some short time afterwards the fire was put out—about half an hour afterwards I saw the prisoner and Mr. Moss in the street between Nos. 17 and 19—Mr. Moss tapped the prisoner on the shoulder and said "You must thank Mr. Walton for saving the old lady"—the prisoner thanked me and asked me to have a glass of something to drink—we went to the corner house at the bottom of the street and had a

glass of ale each, and the prisoner then said "I must go to the City Road to get my policy"—I said "Surely you are not going to a fire office at this time of night"—he said "No, I have left it in a shop in the City Road, it would not do to keep a policy in a thing like that".

Cross-examined. It was dark when I went into the room where the old woman was—I could not see what she was doing, more than the was in stooping position—I believe she was confused.

RACHEL KRUNTZ (Interpreted). I live at No. 16, Finch Street, about three minutes' walk from Old Montagu Street—I am a cousin of the prisoner; he is a widower—his wife was my husband's daughter, not mine—my husband worked for the prisoner—I recollect the fire; I saw it; I went to the prisoner's house that night—I don't know the time, it was dark—I went to buy some ribbons in Montagu Street, and I saw the flame and then I lost my senses; the flame was in the front part of the house; first of all I ran, but I felt ill and fell down, and then I was carried into the shop of Mr. Moss—I don't know who carried me; I was lying on the ground; I was bathed with water—I don't remember going into No. 19 at all; I don't know whether I was in there or not—I used not to go there of an afternoon to take the tea, I made the tea at home at my own place and gave it to the man when he came from synagogue—ten weeks before the prisoner's wife died I took the tea there to the work—people—I do not remember seeing the key of the house on the night of the fire—I did not have it—I had seen the prisoner that day at 12 o'clock—I saw him go along the street up to his room—I did not see him after that—after the fire I heard him in the shop at Mrs. Moss's—I did not see him, I was in bed at Mrs. Moss's.

Cross-examined. When I saw the fire I was in the street, there was a large big flame—I don't know how I was carried in; I lost my senses.

JOHN HAWES . I am a fireman at the Commercial Road fire station, about three minutes' walk from 19, Old Montagu Street—on 24th December, at 5.27 p.m., a lad came to the station and gave me information about the fire—I went there at once with two men—I found the door of the house open—I went upstairs to the back room first-floor, the door was locked—I did not see any key in it—I forced it open; there was no one in the room—I found the bed alight—there was no fire in the fire-place, a board was put in front of the grate—I got some water and damped down the fire—I had to turn the bed over before I could get it out—all the head part of the bed was on fire—no part of the room itself was burnt, only the partition scorched—there was a great deal of smoke in the room—after damping down the fire I shut the door and went up to the second floor; the door was open—I found a fire there well alight, it was all over the room, all the contents were one mass of fire—I then went back for the fire engine and the fire was put out—the fire in that room had burnt up to the front part of the roof where the window was, and it had burnt down through the flooring into the front room first-floor—there was no communication whatever between the fire in the front room second floor and that in the back room first-floor—I afterwards examined the bed in the back room first floor and found that it was saturated with paraffin oil—the police examined it, a piece of the bed was cut off—I did not notice a bottle in the room—there was no one in the house when I went in—I have had ten years' experience in fires—I should think the fire in the second-floor front

room might have been burning possibly 10 minutes, it might have been I more, I could not say exactly—I could not say how long the bed had been I burning.

JOHN PLOWMAN . I am in the Salvage Corps, at the Commercial Road station—when the alarm of fire was given, I went to 19, Old Montagu Street, with Hawes—about 20 minutes after the fire was put out, I saw the prisoner in a house opposite; the lire had not been properly put out, the head of it had been taken off—I asked him if he was insured—he said, "Yes"—I asked in what office—he said, the Staffordshire Fire Office—I asked if he could give me a copy of his policy—he said no, it was a long way off, at his master's, and he would not be able to produce it for a day or two, as it was holiday time—I asked how he accounted for the fire—he said, "I have not been in the place all the afternoon"—he said, "I was here 10 minutes before the fire"—I said, "Were you in the place?" he said, "No, I was opposite, in the street"—afterwards, between 10 and 11, he gave the number of his policy to the man in charge, and he gave it to me—I did not see him produce it—I saw the paraffin on the bed.

Cross-examined. He said nothing about the servant—I said before the Magistrate, "He said his servant was the last person in the house at 3.30 that afternoon"—it slipped my memory if I did say it—I rather think he might have said it—I remember the servant speaking about it, and I was confounding the one with the other.

THOMAS BENTON . I am in the Salvage Corps, at the Commercial Road station—after the fire was put out I remained in charge of the premises—about 11 that night I saw the prisoner in the street, I spoke to him about the number of his policy and he gave it to me, he said I might as well take the key, and he gave me this key—I said, "That is the very thing I have been looking for—it is the key that opens the front door—I delivered it up to my mate Harding, who relieved me.

GEORGE HARDING . I am a member of the Salvage Corps—at 9 o'clock on the morning of Christmas Day I took charge of the premises—the last witness gave me the key of the front door—I examined the premises—there were two separate fires—on the mantelpiece in the first-floor back room I saw this pint bottle, it is an ordinary beer bottle; there was no cork in it—I did not move it, it was left there—the surveyor for the fire-office came to the premises on the 31st, after that—on 1st February the prisoner asked me if I would let him take the things away that remained, I referred him to the surveyor—he asked, if ho signed the paper to free the office from giving any compensation, would they allow him to have the things—I said most likely they would.

By the COURT. The fire was confined to the first-floor back and the second-floor front rooms—everything in the first-floor back was severely scorched, but only the bedding was burnt.

JOSEPH MARRIOTT (Policeman). On 2nd January I went with Sergeant Thick to the prisoner's house—we were in plain clothes—I said, "We are two police-officers come to examine the premises," he made no reply—he accompanied us upstairs—we went into the back room first-floor, I examined the bed in the prisoner's presence, the top of it was all burnt—the bedding had paraffin on it—I turned up the mattress and said, "Squeeze that," he squeezed something out of it—I said, "What is it?" he said, "It smells like paraffin oil;" I said, "How do you account for that?" he said, "I

account for it, I have not been in the room for six months"—I pointed out to him how clean the paint-work was outside the room, no scorching from the lire, and I said, "There have been two separate fires;" he said, "I don't know anything about that"—I cut off a piece of the bed and Thick took possession of it—I noticed this bottle on the mantelpiece, there was no cork in it; I smelt it, it appeared to contain paraffin; there was a very small quantity in it—I took possession of the bottle; there was a mark on the mantelpiece where it had been standing, the rest of the mantelpiece was all smoky and steamy from the fire, the space where the bottle had stood was quite clean—I said, "What time did you leave your house on the 24th?"—he said, "Between 3 and 4 in the afternoon"—I said, "Where did you go to?"—he said, "I wont to a man named Goldberg, in Goulston Street, and then to a bootmaker's in Commercial Street, then I went to Webb's public-house," or "near Webb's," I am not quite sure which he said, "then I met a Mr. Friedenberg by appointment in the Commercial Road"—I said, "Did you! come near your house from between 3 and 4, until after the fire?"—he said, "No"—I said, "Are you quite sure?" he hesitated and said, "Well, I did come back just before half-past 5, and I looked through the grating to see if my servant was in"—I said, "Did you call in the house at that time?"—he said, "No, how could. I call in when there is only one key and my servant had got it?"—I then said "How do you account for this key?" Benton producing it at the same time—he said "I know nothing of it"—I then said I should like to see Mr. Friedenberg—he said "I will take you to where he lives, in the Commercial Road"—we went in that direction, and I noticed a man following us close behind, and I said to the prisoner "Who is this man following us?"—he said "That is Mr. Friedenberg"—he turned round to look at him—I said to him "Is your name Friedenberg?"—he said "Yes"—the prisoner said something to him in a language I did not understand, and I said "What you say, say in English"—the prisoner said "Do you understand German?"—I said "Yes, a little"—I then said to Friedenberg "Did you on 24th December, either day or night, meet Marks in the Commercial Road by appointment?"—he said "No, I did not, I was at Mr. Marks's between three and four, and left there with him; we went to Webb's public-house in High Street; we had a walk round, and came by his house just before 5.30; went into the comer public-house nearly opposite his, and I left him there"—the prisoner said nothing to that—Friedenberg then walked away—the prisoner seemed to become very excited and frightened, and said "I must have some brandy"—I said very well; and he went into the Duke of York in Martel Street, Commercial Road—he was in there about a minute or so—he then pulled the door open, and said "Come here, I want to speak to you privately; will you have anything to drink?"—I said, "No, thank you, I don't care for it"—he then said in a low voice "Well, it won't do you any good to put me in prison; you might as well have 7l. or 8l. for yourself"—I said "Is that what you wish to speak to me about?"—he said "Yes"—I said "I have an appointment with Sergeant Thick, you had better speak to him"—he then accompanied me, and I met Sergeant Thick—I said "Sergeant Thick, this man wishes to speak to you, or say something to you"—Thick said "What is it?"—prisoner said "Well, you don't want to put me in prison; I will give you and your mate 12l., 6l. each, and you can keep the darkey and Friedenberg out of the way, and you can throw that bit of stuff away"—that

was the piece of bed-ticking that I had cut off—Thick said "Very well; meet us at 8 o'clock to-night in Black Lion Yard with the money"—the prisoner then went away, and we both went at once to Inspector Aberline and told him what had taken place—at 8 o'clock he went with us to Black Lion Yard—we waited an hour or more, but the prisoner did not come—I was with Thick on 4th January when the prisoner was taken into custody—Thick said to him "I am taking you into custody for wilfully setting fire to your house, 19, Old Montagu Street"—he made no reply.

Cross-examined. When I had the first conversation with the prisoner I did not tell him that I suspected him of setting lire to his house—I did not caution him—I told him we were two police officers, that was all—I did not tell him that what he said would be used in evidence against him, or any words to that effect—I put questions to him—I did not wish him to say anything—I suggested he should see Thick—my object was to get him to make the same statement to him about the money that he had made to me—I did not make any note of the conversation—what I have stated is entirely from memory—I keep a book for general work—I did not make any entry in that—he did not say a word to me about his policy, that I swear—he said nothing to me about inducing the Insurance Company to pay the policy—the 71. or 8l. had nothing to do with the question of whether the policy would be disputed or not—I never heard the policy mentioned, that I swear.

WILLIAM THICK (Policeman H 46). On 2nd January I made an examination of the premises, and cut off a piece of the bed-tick, which I produce—I saw the prisoner there between one and two o'clock, when Marriott was With me—I saw him again on the 4th, at Mr. Keen's shop, 51, London Wall, and took him into custody—he said nothing—I received this key from Caroline Robinson—he did not mention the Insurance Company to me—I had no conversation with him in Marriott's absence.

Cross-examined. I made no note of the conversation—I carry a book—I had it with me at that time—I did not caution the prisoner before I ques-tioned him—I told him we were police officers come to make inquiries.

WILLIAM ARMSTEAD . I am assistant to Mr. Pinnock, assessor of fire losses to the Staffordshire Fire Office, Limited—on 28th December, in consequence of instructions, I went to 19, Old Montagu Street—a tailor's business appeared to be carried on in the upper part of the premises—on 30th the prisoner came to Mr. Pinnock's office, and brought this written claim, amounting to 129l. odd—I found it was unsigned, and asked him to, sign it, which he did in my presence—I did not see the policy, or have any. conversation with him about the claim on that occassion—I looked over the goods at Old Montagu Street on the 28th, and put them down at 60l. if claimed as a total loss—I include the upper floor in that; that was burnt out—I estimate that at about 33l., half the value claimed—on the 31st December I noticed the paraffin on the bed in the first-floor back room—on seeing that I communicated with Mr. Pinnock—on 1st January, about 11 o'clock, the prisoner came to the office; he made a statement, which Mr. Pinnock read over to him, and he said it was correct—I don't remember that he signed it—on 2nd January I went again to the premises—Caroline Robinson was sent for—I heard the prisoner say in her presence "I was near the premises at 5.30 in the afternoon, and I looked down the area into the kitchen window to see if my servant had returned home"—I heard him say to the police that he had not a key—I thereupon said "Your servant

has stated that you had"—I then called the girl forward, who was standing some distance off, and said "Repeat before your master what you have said to me"—she then said "We had a second key"—he said he had given it up to the salvage man.

Cross-examined. I said before the Magistrate "I examined the goods on the premises, and valued the total of them, if they had been totally destroyed, under 100l.," but I subsequently said 60l. on consideration—I said so far as the claim was concerned the goods roughly amounted to 60l., but the whole of the goods were damaged there by fire, water, and smoke—my meaning was, that the value of goods, damaged or undamaged, the total value—I did not intend to say that they were damaged to the amount of 60l., and I don't think I did.

Re-examined. I made a more minute examination a second time, and that confirmed my previous opinion.

GEORGE WILLIAM PINNOCK . I am the assessor to the Staffordshire Fire Insurance Company an 1 to Fire insurance companies generally—I took this statement from the prisoner—I read it over to him and he said it was correct. (Read: "Fire happened Christmas Eve; no one in the house. I had been to work until the afternoon. The workpeople were also there. My servant took the work to the shops; she is a South African, had been with me about six months. She was brought over by a man, a bootmaker, who used to live at my place. I have been a tenant of the house four years. I left the house after 3, between 3 and 4 o'clock, on Christmas Eve. I left the girl there. She took work to Mr. Keen, 51, London Wall, and to Mr. Croft, Shepherdess Walk, City Road. The work was packed up before I left, ready for the girl to take away. The first I heard of the fire was finding the fire-engines there after 6 o'clock. The girl had the key of the door. I had been to several places to buy things; at a goldsmith's in Goulston Street; his name, I think, is Jacobs. I am informed the fire happened about half an hour before I came back; there was gas in every room in the house. I turned the gas off at the meter every night, and then my child, 14 years old, had a night-light; for since my wife died she was so timid. The child was at Stratford at the time. Miss Moss sleeps with my child for company. I sleep on a made-up bed on the sofa in the sitting-room on the first floor. My tenant left about a fortnight before the fire; he gave me notice. I can't give any idea as to the cause of the fire. All was safe when I left. The girl had to dress herself and then go with the work; she had no necessity to have asked. She sleeps in the kitchen. The fire had not reached the kitchen or shop and parlour, but was confined to the work-room on the top of the house. I am not able to form any opinion as to which floor the fire began on.") I have had experience in estimating claims—I cannot say that I examined these goods—I looked over them—speaking generally, I agree with the evidence of Mr. Armstead as to value—I remember some observations being made about the key, and the girl Robinson made a statement about it—the prisoner said there was a second key, and when asked where it was he said it was with his mother.

WILLIAM KEEN . I live at 51, London Wall—the prisoner has worked for me as a tailor for about five years—on 24th December, some time after 4 o'clock, the girl Robinson brought me some work—in July last the prisoner entrusted me with this policy of insurance to take care of, and gave as a reason that he was going abroad—during the time I knew him I found him a very respectable, well—conducted man.

Cross-examined. That is the character that he has borne—I believe he did go abroad, and his wife died abroad.

THOMAS CROFT . I live at 73, Shepherdess Walk—on 24th December the girl Robinson brought me some work between 5 and 6 o'clock.

Cross-examined. My place is from about a mile and a half to two miles from the prisoner's—he has worked for me for the last 15 months—I always found him to be a respectably-conducted man.

The following Witnesses were called for the Defence.

MORRIS JACOBS . I live at 6, Samuel Street, and work for the prisoner—I did so in December last—on the afternoon of 24th, I remember his going out—I was on the premises after he went, and the girl Robinson also—he went away with Mr. Friedenberg—I left at 3.30, leaving Robinson there.

Cross-examined. I don't know who Mr. Friedenberg is—I have seen him there many times—he was a good friend of Mr. Marks—I know Mrs. Krantz, she used to come every day to bring tea to the old man—I saw her on 24th Dec. in the middle of the day, up in the workshop—she used to come in the middle of the day and in the evening; she would come two or three times a day—it was about 12 o'clock on 24th Dec that I saw her—I cannot say that I saw her later than 12—I can't say one way or the other—she was not in the house when I left.

GERSAU WEISSM (Interpreted). I live at 21, Newcastle Street, and am a traveller—the day before Christmas Day I was in Goulston Street between 4 and half-past in the afternoon and saw the prisoner there—we went to a goldsmiths, he went inside, I waited outside the door; when he came out we went together to the prisoner's house, we did not go in—we stopped outside the door about two or three minutes and then went away to Commercial Road, where Mr. Nathan met us—I then went away about a quarter to 5 or 5 o'clock—I cannot say exactly.

Cross-examined. The prisoner was quite alone when I first met him—I did not say before the Magistrate that he was with Friedenberg—I have been on intimate terms with the prisoner and frequently in his company, if I wanted a coat made or anything—I did not visit at his house or take meals with him—I had never been there before.

MICHAEL NATHAN . I live at 72, Umberstone Street, Commercial Road—on Christmas Eve I was in Commercial Road and saw the prisoner, it might have been a quarter to 5, or a little before—Weiss was with him; he left and I went with the prisoner to Umberstone Street to. see a man named London, he was not at home, we then went to a man named Baum, in Grove Street—I left the prisoner there—I think it must have gone 5 then—he was' in my company all that time.

Cross-examined. I knew him very well—I am not very frequently in his company—I met him casually—I am quite sure it must have been very close on 5 when I met him.

SOLOMON BAUM . I live at 75, Grove Street, Commercial Road—on 24th Dec. the prisoner came to my place with Nathan—I should say it was about a quarter to 6 as near as I can say—he only came to ask if my cousin had left, that is London—my place is about 10 or 12 minutes' walk from the prisoner's.

Prisoner received a good character.


10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-203
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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203. WILLIAM TRITNER (29) , Feloniously wounding Emma Tritner, with intent to murder.

MR. KEITH FIRTH Prosecuted.

EMMA TRITNER I am the wife of the prisoner—when first examined on the 18th December I was in the hospital—I went to work at 23, Beaumont Square, Mile End Road—I have been married to the prisoner three years the 28th of last November—I summoned him several times for beating me and threatening me—the summons was a week or a fortnight before this happened—when his name was called he ran away from the Court—he had not been before the Magistrate—he threatened several times to buy a razor and cut my throat—I have been in danger ever since I have been married—on 9th Dec. he came to me at 22, Beaumont Square, at about half-past 4 o'clock in the afternoon—he knocked at the door—I opened it and said I was in hopes he had got a place, because he was out of work, and I was paying the rent—he said "No I haven't come for that, you b——; what are you going to do? I mean to do for you," and he took the chopper out of his pocket and hit me a blow in the forehead, and I fell to the ground—he struck me a great many times—I put me arm up to try and save myself—at last he lifted my head up to see if I was dead—my face was buried in mat in the passage, and he lifted my head from one side to the other, and said "You b——, I've done it; I told you I would: you won't move no more, you b——," and away he walked—a policeman came afterwards—I opened the door by some means or other—I lost a great deal of blood—the passage was floating with blood—that is the chopper (Produced) that did it—it was my own chopper that I used at home for the wood—I have never heard him say anything about the chopper—he has often said he would do something for Mr. Dipple, because he would not give him a character, some time before this happened—he did not threaten him—he has said many a time that he would swing for me on the gallows.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You dragged me out of bed to go to work on the 28th Nov.—you would not work, and I had to work—you slept in bad till 12 or 1 in the day—you turned the baby topsy-turvy, and it frightened me, I thought the child would go into a fit—I rushed towards the child and then you hit me—I did not throw the basin at you, I threw a cup—I said no bad word—you told people a man at the docks cut your head—I threw the cup because that morning I had to go out to work and I had nothing to eat and nothing for the child, and I said "Bill, you're no man, or you would not let a wife and child go out as you do," and with that you beat me and took up a lamp to throw at me, and I felt so crushed that I should have to go to work in that way, and I took up a cup and threw at you—you had been beating me that morning—I had the marks about my face, and the baby was in my arms when you flogged me—I was going to summons you for it—when you came back from the hospital I was at my place of work, and the mistress was afraid to let me be seen because you had threatened me—I did not swear at you—on the Monday I was at work at 22, Beaumont Square—I went to the workhouse for protection, I stayed there three days—I had not gone to the play with another man—I will take my dying oath it is not true—it is not true that there was any young man of whom you were jealous—on the Saturday when I went to the Court you had not seen me for a week, I had been in the workhouse three days—when you asked me to forgive you, I said I had put up with it so long I must have some protection from you—this chopper does not belong to me, it was one exactly like it, but a little longer—it did look very much like the one we had at home—the one belonging to me had notches in it—I

did not say I could find a better man than you in the streets—you did not work, so I had to work.

Re-examined. I have summoned him twice since I have been married for his ill-treatment to me—I have made complaints to the police.

FREDERICK WINSLOW (Policeman K Reserve 63). On the 9th Dec. I received information which caused me to go to 22, Beaumont Square—I saw the prosecutrix there—she opened the door—I saw a large pool of blood in the passage—I saw wounds on her head, and also on the hand and arm, and blood running from them—there were several wounds and a large quantity of blood—I said "Who did this?"—the prisoner was not there—I took the prosecutrix to the London Hospital—I subsequently saw the prisoner at the police-station—he said "It was her own fault; she cut my head with a basin three weeks ago. I went there and asked her to come home; she would not, and then I did it."

LEWIS BELLAMY . I am a potman at the Albert Arms, Bancroft Road, Mile End—the prisoner came there on the 9th Dec, about a quarter past 4—I was pouring some hot water into a tub to wash some bottles—the prisoner said "There is nothing like plenty of hot water," and I said "No"—he walked down to the bottom of the skittle-ground—there are some old window panes standing there—he said "You have still got some old window panes there," and I said "Yes"—I saw him lean over, and he came back and pulled out an old scarf from his pocket and said "Do you want to bay a scarf?"—I said "No"—he said "I will sell it for 2d."—I said "If you want 2d. I'll give you the 2d." and he said "Good-bye," and as he went to shake hands with me I noticed his hands covered with blood, and before I shook hands with him he ran over into the pot-house, where I clean the pots, and washed his hands in some fine sand in a sand-tub—he said "Good-bye; I have done it"—I asked him what he had done—he said "I have knocked her down three times with a hatchet"—then he went through into the bar, and I followed him—as he was going out of the house he said "Good bye; you won't see any more of me until the rope is round my neck in Newgate"—when he was gone I went back into the skittle-ground where I had seen him go—on looking near the window-sashes I found there this chopper—there was blood on it—it was not wet, but had just dried on—there was a stream of blood right down the blade—I handed it to the constable.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You did say I should see no more of you till the rope was round your neck in Newgate—I am positive those are the words, not that somebody else ought to have the rope.

FREDERICK FISHER . I am surgeon to the London Hospital—about 4.30 on the night of the 9th December the prosecutrix was brought in—she was bleeding from many wounds—there were seven incised wounds on the back of the right forearm and hand, the most serious one 2 inches in length; it fractured and splintered the small bone of the arm—there were six incised wounds on the scalp, varying from 11/2 to 21/2 inches in length, two of them penetrating deeply into the skull and through the outer table of the skull straight behind the ear—she had lost a large quantity of blood, and was fainting, but had not quite lost consciousness—I considered her life in danger.

By the COURT. It is impossible to say how long—for the first fortnight I could not have said she was not liable to take on dangerous symptoms—the chopper produced would have caused the wounds—she is still an in-patient, but is getting well and ready to be discharged.

Prisoner's Defence: "I was going to take the chopper home, and I asked her if she would come home. She said 'No.' Then she told me she was going to the play with the man she loved best I had a drop of drink and didn't know what I had done. I did not mean to knock her down, or intend to kill her. She had a glass of wine with the man before they went to the place. I didn't tell her to get to work. And then, because I had bought two shirts, she made a laughing-stock of me."

GUILTY .— Twenty Years' Penal Servitude.

NEW COURT.—Tuesday, February 11th, 1879.

Before Mr. Recorder.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-204
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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204. ROBERT NAPIER WEST (36) PLEADED GUILTY to feloniously marrying Maria Wild, his wife being alive.

Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutrix.— Three Months' Imprisonment.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-205
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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205. JAMES CARTER (46) to stealing a case and 12 bottles of brandy of William Bertram and others, having been convicted of felony at Westminster in 1878.— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-206
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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206. JAMES MAHURTERS (28) , Stealing a watch of George Charles Wright from his person.

MR. DAVIS Prosecuted; MR. PURCELL Defended.

STANFORD JOHN KING . I am barman at the Wooden Shades, Bishopsgate Street—on 15th January, about 9.30, I saw the prisoner and two or three others there drinking together—the prisoner's wife went up to Mr. Wright and asked him if he was going to stand anything to drink—the prisoner then went up close to him, and he treated him to drink—Mr. Wright was then sick, and stooped down, and the prisoner put his hand in front of his chest, took the watch out of his pocket, and took it off the chain—I told the head barman, who jumped over the counter and said, "That won't do for me here," and ordered the doors to be closed—a policeman came, and Wright said to the prisoner, "I shall charge you with stealing my watch"—he said, "I did not take it"—he was taken to the station—one of his companions left before the police came.

Cross-examined. The watch was off the chain when I saw it—I did not see him unfasten it—Wright had had a little too much—he was leaning against the partition conversing with a woman—I did not see the prisoner point to Wright's chain, or hear him say, "Look at your watch"—I was serving—Wright treated two women—they did not go away before they had finished their liquor, but I do not say that they drank every drain—they left before the police were called—the watch was not found.

By the COURT. I saw one of the men who was with the prisoner go away immediately the man jumped over the counter—there was a scuffle, and the three men and the women were mixed up together—the prisoner's wife was in the bar when he was taken—she was not taken or searched.

GEORGE WRIGHT . I am an agent, and live at 23, Henrietta Street, Euston Road—on 25th January I was in the Wooden Shades about 9.30, drinking at the bar—the place was pretty full—I had a watch on that evening worth 41. or 51., I cannot swear that I had it when I went in, but I believe I looked at it in the public-house—I have never seen it since—I had had a glass, but I distinctly remember going in—I was there a quarter of an hour.

Cross-examined. I have expressed my willingness to have nothing more to do with the case.

JOHN BATTSON (City Policeman 963). I was called—the barman pointed to the prisoner and said, "I saw that man take this man's watch from his pocket"—he said, "I have not seen his watch"—Wright charged him, and he said, "I have not seen his watch"—I searched him at the station, and found on him fourpence in copper.

Cross-examined. He gave me a correct address, and denied the charge.


10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-207
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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207. GEORGE GREEN (15) , Feloniously cutting and wounding Margaret Green, with intent to do her grievous bodily harm.

MR. DAVIS Prosecuted.

MARGARET GREEN . I am a widow, and live at 119, Jubilee Street—the prisoner is my nephew, he has lived with me ever since he was four months' old—on 15th January I asked him to fetch his father's burial card down, he did so and put it on the table—he looked rather strange and excited—I sat down, and he struck me on my head with a hammer which is used to break coals with—I did not see the hammer in his hand till I had received the blow—I cannot tell whether I received more than one blow, for the blood ran into my mouth—he then fell down at my feet and begged my pardon, and said, "For God's sake what have I done? I must be mad to do this; I will go for the doctor"—a companion of his came to the door who he says he wishes he had never seen, and said, "Is George in V I do not know his name—I do not know in my excitement whether the prisoner went for a doctor or not; I went to the hospital in a cab—we had never had an angry word—I last saw the hammer three or four days before, but I do not know where it came from when he used it.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I picked it up that you might not strike me again—I did not call you a b—y bastard, and say that your mother had disgraced me—I did not pick up the tongs to strike you—you did not throw the hammer at me, you struck me with it—I was sober—you never touched the fire, nor did I rebuke you for touching it.

HENRY PULLEN BURRY . I am house-surgeon at the London Hospital—I admitted the prosecutrix—she was excited, but my impression is that she was not drunk—she had eight wounds on her head, and some considerable contusions—one wound down the centre of her head was lacerated, and was two and a half or three inches long, the others were contused and round it—this hammer would probably produce them—she was in considerable danger, but she appears to be safe now—there must have been as many blows as wounds.

WILLIAM CARTER (Policeman K 78). I was called to 119, Jubilee Street, and saw the prisoner—I asked him where Mrs. Green was, he said, "She is gone to the London Hospital"—I said, "I shall take you in custody for assaulting your aunt with a hammer"—he then said to a young man who was there, who I don't know, "Go up and tell her I am going to be locked up."

GUILTY. Recommended to mercy by the Jury, on account of his youth .— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-208
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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208. PETER WILSON (29) and PATRICK MURPHY (33) , Feloniously forging and uttering an order for the payment of 3l. 5s., with intent to defraud.

MR. TORR Prosecuted.

GEOROE ALBERT DEBUSS . I am a coffee-house keeper, of 5, Dock Street, London Docks—the prisoners lived with me two or three days, and asked me to settle with them and give them change out of these two advance notes for 3l. 5s. each—I did so, and gave them 2l. 2s. 6d. each, they are both for the same ship, they had had 15s. each in board and lodging—I believed the notes to be genuine, but afterwards noticed that the date, 3rd January, ought to have been February—I went to the shipping-office to get it altered, and the result of my inquiries was that I gave the prisoners in custody—they were not endorsed—that is not done until the men go on board ship.

WILLIAM HARPER . I am deputy-superintendent of Mercantile Marine at St. Katherine's Docks—these two advance-notes are forged—they refer to the ship Douglas Campbell, but the prisoners were not part of her crew—I have got the articles here—these printed forms can be bought in any stationer's shop—the master's name is not Hunter, as stated here.

WILLIAM THOMPSON (Policeman H 84). At 5.30 on 4th February I took the prisoners at the Blue Anchor, Dock Street—Mr. Debuss called them out, and told them they would be charged with forging two seamen's advance notes—they made no answer—I took them to the station, where Wilson said, in Murphy's presence, "We know that they are two forged notes."

The Prisoner' Statements before the Magistrate. Wilson says: "I did not know the notes were bad till last night I thought they were genuine."

Murphy says: "We did not know they were bad, the mate or captain wanted two hands. We got the notes from.—"

Wilson's Defence. I did not know the notes were bad till I was at the station. We left more than the value of the notes in clothing in his house.

Murphy's Defence. I did not know the notes were bad. He kept 5s. back for a cab to take us to the ship. He gave me 5s. at one time, and 10s. at another time, that is all I had from him. They were given to us at the Shipping Offices. I asked the boarding-house man to take charge of the ticket of my watch and of my overcoat.

GEORGE ALBERT DEBUSS (Re-examined). Murphy gave me the ticket of a watch and an affidavit for an overcoat to take care of for fear he should lose them.

GUILTY . Three Months' Imprisonment each. There was another indictment against the prisoners.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-209
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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209. THOMAS STEVENS (17) , Feloniously cutting and wounding George Tucker, with intent to do him grievous bodily harm Second count with intent to resist the lawful apprehension of two persons named Connor and Collins.

MR. THORNE COLE Prosecuted; MR. FRITH Defended.

GEORGE TUCKER . I lived at 21, Tenison Street, Lambeth, and am a labourer—on 2nd November, at 9.15 p.m., I was in Duke Street, Adelphi, and saw a constable with two persons in custody—he asked me to assist him, and I laid hold of a young man about. 17—as I was holding him the prisoner came up and struck me on the left side—I did not know that I was stabbed at the moment, but I looked at him, and said "I know you, I will summons you for this"—I went on for three or four yards holding the man, and then

felt something warm running down my side—I undid my trousers, and saw blood—I gave myself to a constable, and went to Charing Cross Hospital, and had my wounds dressed—I was an out-patient for a fortnight, and was not able to work for three weeks—I have had no work since.

Cross-examined. Ten or fifteen persons were present, but they were not within 6 yards of me—they stood round in a ring 6 yards away, but the prisoner came up to me—there were not half a dozen persons touching me, and trying to prevent me getting to the constable—I am sure I did not go 10 yards before I knew that I was stabbed—the persons were not trying to take the two men out of the hands of the policemen—the prisoner was not taken that night—I said before the Magistrate I did not get more than 10 yards before I felt something running down my side—the prisoner escaped but I did not see him again—it did not take more than an instant from beginning to end.

WILLIAM KING . I am a Hackney carriage driver of 10, Harper's Mews—on 2nd November at 9.15 I was with my cab in Duke Street, Adelphi, and saw a lot of lads pushing an old man about—I told them that they ought to be ashamed of themselves—the prisoner was one of them—he walked behind me, and struck me behind each ear—I was also struck across the eyes with a leather belt, and then across my neck, and knocked down—they kicked me all round—I have not got over it—I have a blister on my chest now—a policeman came up, and took two of them, Connor and Collins, and asked me to take one of them—George Tucker came up and assisted me—the prisoner came up and hit him in the side—I cannot say what it was—Tucker said "I will make you pay for this," or something to that effect.

Cross-examined. The prisoner ran up by his side—no one was round him at that time, but there were 10 or 15 persons there when he first assisted me—I had never seen the prisoner before, but when he was sitting with others in the charge-room I picked him out—the police had told me that they had got him in custody—I did not see a constable standing by him—there might have been a dozen men and boys in the charge-rooms.

JOHN ELSTOW (Policeman E 325). I was called to Duke Street, Adelphi, and took two lads into custody—I called upon King and Tucker to assist me, which they did—I had seen the prisoner about 10 minutes previously outside a public-house in Duke Street.

FREDERICK PARKER (Policeman E R 34). On 13th January in the afternoon I saw the prisoner in Duke Street—I asked him if he knew there was a warrant out for his apprehension—he said "I know nothing about it"—I said "You will have to come with me to Bow Street"—there were about a dozen lads who called out "Never mind, Tom, they have left it alone too long now—they can't do nothing with you n—he said "I am not afraid of that."

CHARLES GREEN . I was house surgeon at Charing Cross Hospital—Tucker was brought there on 2nd November—he had a small punctured wound between his fifth and sixth ribs—there was a great deal of bleeding, it might have been caused by a pen-knife—I dressed it, it was not dangerous—it might have been if it had been deeper, but the clothes prevented it entering the cavity of the chest, when it would have been dangerous—it was in a dangerous part.

The Prisoner received a good character.

GUILTY on the Second Count .—(†) Six Months' Imprisonment.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-210
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

210. GUSTAVE WITSENHAUSEN (30) , Feloniously forging and uttering an order for the payment of 8l., with intent to defraud.

MR. TICKELL Prosecuted, and the evidence was interpreted to the Prisoner.

ETIENNE HIRSCH . I am a trimming manufacturer of Clapham—I had business transactions with the prisoner, but not personally—he owed me 4l. on 14th December, and tendered me this crossed cheque for 8l. drawn by Gudalga and payable to Witsenhausen—he said it was all right—I took it and sent it to Mr. Stobbold, to whom I owed some money, got the change from him, and gave it to the prisoner—I afterwards endorsed it at Mr. Stobbold's request—I knew the drawer—I was afterwards given in custody for issuing the cheque and went with Stobbold to Mr. Gudalga's house, but only saw Mrs. Gudalga—I was subsequently discharged—the prisoner said that he was angry about the cheque being crossed, and asked me to change it, and if not he would take it away.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You told me a few days before that you were expecting 20l.—I came to the City expressly on that day for the purpose of getting the 4l. at the club in the morning—you told me you had no money then, but expected some to be brought at 12 o'clock, and asked me to go to your place at 12 o'clock, but I said that I preferred that you should bring the money to my place—it was 4 o'clock when you came to see me; you told me you had no money then, but you had a cheque, and produced it and said, before I knew the amount of it, that you were going to the West End to get change for it, and I. said that if you went to the club you would accompany me—I introduced you to my wife and showed you over my house—I did not make you wait as much as two hours, saying that I was engaged—you said that it was then too late to go to the West End to get the cheque cashed, but you would go to-morrow and I should have my 4l.—we then went out together, and then for the first time I asked you for what sum the cheque was, and you showed it to me for the first time, and I said "It is very late to go to the West to cash it," and seeing that it was drawn by Gudalga I offered to pay it to my manufacturer—you did not ask how long it would take before the cheque would come in for payment going through two or three different hands, nor did I say that if it was not crossed it would be payable at once—I do not remember you saying that you were very vexed that it was crossed—we are both in the leather trade, and I have obliged you—we had spoken of your living with us and paying 2l. a week—you did not owe me the 4l. originally, somebody else did, and you took the debt upon yourself—you were arrested 10 days after giving me the cheque, and in the interval I saw you two or three times a day, but did not know then that the cheque was forged—when you were arrested you offered to pay the cab fare and take the officer to the man you had the cheque from, and you offered at once to go to Victoria Street to get the money to pay the amount—I have not said to Stobbold that you are the person who crossed the cheque.

Re-examined. The prisoner did not lead me to suppose that he wanted me to keep the cheque in my hands—he took over the greatest part of the debt of a friend, and he had goods too, but not before I received the cheque—the 4l. was partly a debt from another person and partly due for goods—I did not have the prisoner arrested.

THOMAS STOBBOLD . I am a bootmaker, of 33, Goldsmith Road, Hackney

Road—I have had dealings with Mr. Hirsch, and he owed me 3l.; on 14th December he offered me this cheque and I gave him the change and a receipt for his bill—a few days afterwards I asked him to endorse the cheque because it was returned marked "No account"—I went with him to the drawer's house, and afterwards went with the prisoner—he said at first that he took the cheque from Gudalga, and afterwards from Mr. Sidovre, at Chelsea.

Cross-examined. You made both those statements; you said that it was a good cheque of Mr. Gudalga's, and I think you gave me to understand that you received it from Mr. Sidovre—I cannot say that Mr. Hirsch seemed surprised at that—you begged me to go with you in a cab at your expense to Sidovre's; you said that you would pay for my lost time, and entreated me to do so—I did not do it because the case was out of my hands—I asked you to go to Queen Victoria Street to pay the cheque, and that was refused.

NICHOLAS JOHN CURSWELL . I am manager of the London Trading Bank, Limited—they issued this form—Gudalga and Co. have no account there—the cheque came to us through the Central Bank, and I marked it "No account"—the cheque-book of which this is one was issued to Messrs, Fournier, who opened an account with us, and the junior partner was Mr. T. Sidovre, who is like the prisoner, but they are not the same person—the account was opened on 9th November and closed on 4th December at our request.

Cross-examined. I did not swear to your being Mr. Sidovre; he is taller than you, and has curly hair and a yellowish face—he did not look as if he came from Spain—this cheque is not his writing—one other cheque has been presented coming from the same book as this, but I do not know who it was signed by; we have about one cheque every day which we have to mark "No effects."

PAUL GUDALGA (through an Interpreter). I am a costume-maker—I trade as E. Gudalga and Co., and live at 20, Orchard Street, Portman Square—this cheque was not drawn or signed by me or by my authority—I do not know the London Trading Bank—I have known the prisoner ten years; he has mentioned the name of Fournier to me—I know his writing, and do not believe the cheque to be his—I have had many friendly transactions with him.

Cross-examined. I know that for nine years you had a very brilliant position in France, and came to London to better your position—you were just about entering into a very good firm with one-third of the profits and 5l. or 6l. a week—I have seen the agreement—I know your family very well; they have a good character—if you had asked me for 10l. or 15l. I should have given it to you, or if you had sent me a telegram asking for 8l., and I know several people who would have given you similar sums if you had asked them—this signature is like mine, but not like my private signature—you led a very simple, quiet life—I often came to your house in the evening and found you at home—I do not know Sidovre.

RICHARD REVELL (Detective Officer). On 24th December I arrested Hirsch, and went with him at his request to Mr. Gudalga's—I afterwards found the prisoner, spoke to him in English, and asked him to give an account of the cheque which I held in my hand—he said "I got it from Mr. Gudalga"—I said "Then be careful, for I have been to see Mr. Gudalga"—he then said "I got it from a man named Sidovre, who lives somewhere in Chelsea, but I cannot give you the address"—I went with him in a cab to

Mr. Gudalga's, and he began to baffle me about; I could not stand it, and took him to the station—after the remand I traced him to King's Road, Chelsea, and he had an office in Leadenhall Street.

Cross-examined. You told me at once that Sidovre lived in King's Road, Chelsea, but you did not know the number—you asked and begged me to go to him, and said that you would pay the cab and would pay me anything for my loss of time if I would go with you—you asked me to go to Queen Victoria Street to get 8l. to pay the cheque at once—I have since heard that there are a great many charges against Sidovre—I traced him over to France, but could not arrest him—he left London on or about 24th December, about the time you were apprehended.

The Prisoner in his defence addressed the Jury in broken English, stating that he was not guilty, though he might have been imprudent, laying the blame on Sidovre, and stating that he never said that he received the cheque from Gudalga.


THIRD COURT.—Tuesday, February 11th, 1879.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-211
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

211. CHARLES OLD (18) , Unlawfully obtaining by false pretences from John Thomas Cooper one bicycle, with intent to defraud.

MR. DIXON Prosecuted; MR. PURCELL Defended.

JOHN THOMAS COOPER . I am clerk to John Cooper, of Bishopsgate—a short time since I advertised a bicycle for sale, and on 15th January last the prisoner called and asked to see it—I fancy I have seen him travelling on the line of railway I use—I showed it to him, and told him it was for sale only for cash—there were one or two others present, and he called me on one side and said, "I shall not take my money until the 25th February"—I replied, "I shall not part with the machine without the money," or words to that effect—he said, "I am living with my uncle, Mr. Wildsmith, of Leytonstone, in whose employ I am"—I think he said he had 8l. a month—I said, "I shall not let you have it"—he then said, "Mr. Charrington, the brewer, is my uncle, and Mr. Morgan, of Walthamstow, is a great friend of ours, and Mr. St. Alvins is a friend of mine"—a gentleman I well knew—" and Mr. Walker, of Snaresbrook—he seemed to laugh at me because I doubted him, and eventually he took the machine, which he was to bring back that night, or the 8l. for it—I have not seen it since—he pawned it within an hour and a half.

Cross-examined. He did not say, "Mr. Morgan is my uncle"—I cannot recollect saying at the police-court, "I will not be sure whether you said Mr. Morgan was your uncle; you might have said he was a friend"—I believe the prisoner is not related to the Charringtons.

Re-examined. He said his uncle would not advance him the money for the bicycle if he did not see it—he took it between 5 and 6 o'clock.

AUGUSTINE TEWSON . I am a pawnbroker, of Bedford Road, Mile End—I lent the prisoner 3l. on a bicycle, on 15th January, between 6 and 7 p.m., in the name of Charles Old—I have not the deposit note here. Frederick Wildsmith. I am a builder, of Leytonstone—the prisoner is my nephew—I am almost sure Mr. Charrington is not his uncle or Mr. Morgan—none of my sisters married a Charrington.

Cross-examined. The prisoner is connected in some way with the Charringtons, but it is so far off.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I did not obtain it with the wish to defraud. I was in a little trouble, and I intended to get it out and return it."

MR. PURCELL submitted that the false pretences alleged as misrepresentations of an existing fact had not been made out. The COURT concurring, a verdict of NOT GUILTY was taken.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-212
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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212. THOMAS LOADER (21) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Thomas Knowles, and stealing one looking-glass and one painting, her goods.

MR. D. METCALFE Prosecuted.

AMELIA KNOWLES . I live at 15, Brunswick Place, Commercial Road, and am the wife of Thomas Knowles—I went to bed about 11.15 on the 11th January—the street door and windows were fastened—I got up at 7.30 the next (Sunday) morning, when I found the panels of the door broken in, and the parlour window had been forced—it had no catch, but a nail had been put in and that was broken off—I then missed an oil-painting and looking-glass—they were safe at 11 on Saturday night—I identify them (produced).

ABRAHAM SMITH (Policeman K 637). At 1.30 a.m. on 12th January I was on duty in Narrow Street, Ratcliff, when I saw the prisoner and another man approaching me—the prisoner was carrying something under his arm, and the other was also carrying something on his shoulder—they came to within 20 or 30 yards of me, when they looked at me, turned round, and ran away—the prisoner turned down what is called the "four-foot way" leading to the Thames, and the other man threw down a picture and ran along another street—I gave chase to the other man but lost sight of him—then I met a Thames constable, and we searched for the prisoner—down the narrow way we found a looking-glass—we then went on board the barges which were lying about 20 yards from the narrow way—it had been snowing and freezing, and we traced some marks into the cabin of the barge "Jane Dale," and there we found the prisoner lying down very wet and steaming, as if he had been in the water—we had got there by going round a considerable distance—I said, "What are you doing here?" he said, "Nothing"—we took him ashore, and asked him what account he could give of the picture and looking-glass—he said, "I met a man at a coffee-stall in Commercial Road: knowing he was going my way homo and seeing he was carrying these things, I consented to carry the looking-glass"—he also made the same statement at the station when the charge was read over to him—the spot where I met the men is about five minutes' walk from Brunswick Place—the prisoner had 30 or 40 yards to run before he turned into the narrow way—I examined Mrs. Knowles's house, and found the panels of the door had been forced in, and the window had been forced open from the outside.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You ran directly you saw me—he was wet all over—he could not swim, for the blocks of ice in the river at the time.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate."Last Saturday night week I was going home with a mate of mine, Charley Merritt, who asked me to go up and have a cup of coffee with him. While I was standing with him drinking my coffee this man came up with a picture on his shoulder and a looking-glass in his hand. He seemed to be half intoxicated, and got singing

I have often seen his face, and knew him as Ted the Boilermaker. When I told him to go home, he might get locked up, I said 'I will see you home; I will come a little way with you. It will all be on my way, as you say you live at Millwall and I live at Limehouse.' On going along he says, 'Give me a spell with this wanting me to carry the picture and the looking-glass. I say 'No; I will take the looking-glass, in case you break it.' I got him round again the White Swan, down London Street, into the narrow way, that being the nearest direction to go. We got half-way up this narrow street, and I was walking ahead, when all of a sudden I heard a crash. On looking round I saw he had dropped the picture and was walking away as fast as he could. Presently two policemen ran by me. I stood for a moment and didn't know what to do. I put the glass down, and stood again this alley way when the policeman rushed over towards me. I backed down this alley, and before I knew where I was I was in the water. I sank down and came up again. I struggled on the ice. I saw a rope, and I grabbed at it I crawled on to the barge, and there I said insensible, and I remember no more not before I felt a blow, and on looking up I saw a constable and another man with him—he told me the charge, and I went and told him all I knew about it".

Witness for the Defence.

CHARLES MERRITT . At 12 p.m. on Saturday, 11th January, I met the prisoner at the Lord Nelson, and asked him if he was going up to have a cup of coffee—we went up to the stall and had some coffee, when a man came up to the prisoner with a large picture on his shoulder and something else on his arm—he and the prisoner left the stall and I went home.

Cross-examined. The Lord Nelson is in Gill Street, Limehouse—I do not know Brunswick Place or Manor Street, Ratcliff—I cannot read—I was examined at the police-court—I am not generally out at 12 p.m.—I saw the prisoner and the man were talking—I did not hear the prisoner say "Good-night" to me—they went towards Stepney station in the direction of Ratcliff, which runs along by the river—I do not know the narrow way.

ABRAHAM SMITH (Re-examined). The Lord Nelson is about three-quarters of a mile from where I was on duty—it would take you about a quarter of an hour or ten minutes to get from one place to the other. The Prisoner in his defence repeated, in substance, his Statement before the Magistrate, and handed in some written characters from his masters.


FOURTH COURT.—Tuesday, February 11th, 1879.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-213
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentencesImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

213. CHARLES MAYHEW**(32) PLEADED GUILTY to burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Eliza Sarah Ford, with intent to steal; also to burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of David Robertson, and stealing a coat, having been previously convicted.— Ten Years' Penal Servitude.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-214
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

214. WILLIAM GREEN (17) and HENRY WILLIAMS (19), Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Edward Bach, and stealing a coat and other articles, his property.— Twelve Months' Imprisonment. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-215
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentencesImprisonment > penal servitude

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215. EDWIN WILLIAM MILLER (40) to stealing two bankers' cheques for 194l. and 44l. 9s. 10d. of Berkley Paget, his master; also to feloniously forging and uttering an endorsement on a cheque for 34l. 10s. 10d., with intent to defraud.— Five Years' Penal Servitude . [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] And

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-216
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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216. JOHN HENESSEY** (19) to stealing a purse and 16s. from the person of Henry Mills, and to a previous conviction for felony in August, 1876.— Two Years' Imprisonment. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-217
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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217. DAVID DENHAM (18) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of John Blatt, and stealing therein a window curtain, his property.

MR. HUMPHREYS Prosecuted.

JOHN BLATT . I am a haberdasher at 133, Hereford Road, Hackney—it is a private house—on February 5th I went to bed at 11 o'clock—I had fastened all the windows and doors—I slept in the back parlour on the ground-floor—about 3.30 a.m. I was disturbed by a noise which seemed to be at the door leading from the passage to the front parlour—I went immediately with a lamp, and saw the prisoner at the window—he saw me coining in, and I called to him, "Stop, or I'll knock you down"—he stood still—my wife made an alarm, a constable came, and I gave the prisoner in charge—I found the latch forced back—the window was shut down—there were two curtains in the room; one was folded up on the sofa, and it lay by the door when I entered, partly spread out; the prisoner had removed it.

EDWARD STILLWELL (Policeman M 154). I was called to Hereford Road about 3.45 last Thursday morning, and found the prisoner in the parlour—Blatt gave him in custody for burglary—he had no boots on—I asked him where they were—he said "In the front garden;" I found them there—I examined the window, and found it had been tampered with, apparently with a knife.

GUILTY .— Judgment Respited.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-218
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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218. JAMES DAY (29) , Feloniously entering a dwelling-house in the night, with intent to commit felony.

MR. HUMPHREYS Prosecuted.

GEORGE ROBERTSON . I am manager to William Robertson, 4, Gledout Terrace, Canning town, fishmonger—on the night of the 27th I won't to bed about 11.30, and was roused about 4 a.m. by the police—on searching the house the prisoner was found—there is a large fanlight to the door—it was left open on a pivot with a chain—I think there was room for a man to get through—in the morning the window was as I had left it at night—I think the prisoner had been drinking, but he was not drunk.

MICHAEL COLLINS (Policeman 499). On the morning of 28th December I saw the prosecutor's fanlight open—I found marks on the door—I watched, and with other constables I roused Mr. Robertson—we searched the house, and found the prisoner in the cellar—he said nothing; he was sober—it is a large fanlight—it was on the chain—a man could force his way through.

NOAH JOHNSON (Police Sergeant T 2). I examined the door and the fanlight on the same morning—I found marks of mud outside on the door and the door knob, and traced the marks to the top of the door—if the fanlight was forced open there would be room enough for a man to get through, Witness for the Defence.

JOHN MARSHALL (examined by the Prisoner). When you left my house you were drunk—that would be from 2.30 to 3, to the best of my knowledge.

The Prisoner, in his defence, stated that he was drunk, and could not account for being in the shop.

GUILTY .*— Six Months' Imprisonment.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-291
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

Related Material

291. CHARLES MATTHEWS (22) and GEORGE LANE (16) , Stealing 9d. in money from the person of James Hill.

MR. DOUGLAS Prosecuted.

JAMBS EGAN (City Policeman 187). On 31st January, about noon, I saw the prisoners together in Aldersgate Street, near Little Britain—I followed them about 10 minutes—several people were looking in the shop window of a newsagent's, No. 162, Aldersgate Street—Lane went to the prosecutor's right side and put his left hand to his ticket-pocket—I was on the opposite side of the road—he drew his hand away and both prisoners went towards Goswell Road, Lane apparently looking at something in his hand—I sent a man to inquire if the prosecutor had lost anything, and I followed the prisoners and told them I should charge them with picking pockets—they said nothing—when I caught hold of them Lane put his hand in his right-hand trousers pocket—I called to several persons by to look out, as I thought he was dropping something—before I apprehended him I saw him hand something to Matthews—I searched them at the police-station—on Matthews I found a halfpenny and a knife, and on Lane an old ring—I saw nothing drop, but from the movement of the hand in his trousers I have no doubt when he dropped it.

Cross-examined by Matthews. I caught hold of both of you—the other policeman followed us afterwards—he turned into the court when I was bringing you—that court leads into the Goswell Road and into the Golden Lane—the crown collected in Aldersgate Street—you were allowed to get so far away because if I had taken you in custody we might have lost the prosecutor—he had his arm in a sling—you were both running.

ROBERT SAGER . I am a medical student at St. Bartholomew's Hospital—I was standing on the opposite side of the road—my attention was attracted to the prisoners—Lane placed himself on the prosecutor's right side; he was amongst a crowd of people looking in a newspaper shop window—I saw him put his right hand under his left arm and put his finger in the ticket-pocket—Eagen, the officer, had previously communicated with me and I was watching—Matthews stood close behind Lane—Lane came away and walked some 8 or 10 yards, when Matthews joined him, and Lane showed something to him—then from what Eagen said to me I went to the prosecutor and took his name and address—the two prisoners were taken in custody.

Cross-examined by Matthews. I took hold of the other prisoner from Egan, and handed him over to 184 Z—five policemen followed afterwards—the crowd got together at the corner of the court.

Re-examined. I saw the prisoners apprehended and a crowd followed them immediately—I was with Egan—he handed the small prisoner over to me and then I handed him over to a City constable.

JAMES HILL . I am a sewing-machine maker and live at 27, Lindsey Street, Bermondsey—on 31st January, about noon, I was in Aldersgate Street, looking in a newspaper shop—I had this coat on—there is a ticket-pocket in it—I had sixpence and three penny pieces—there were about half a dozen other people there—Sager touched me on the shoulder, and in consequence of what he said I felt in my ticket-pocket and the money was not there—it was safe there at the Spa Road station not long before—I had been nowhere else—I did not notice the prisoners.

Cross-examined by Matthews. I never saw either of you before.


MATTHEWS was further charged with a previous conviction

of felony, to which he PLEADED GUILTY. A long statement was made by Matthews to show he that had been working for various employers at different parts of the country since his return from penal servitude on 7th July, but was harassed by the police, and had applied to the Prisoners' Aid Society for work; that he was trying to get into St. Bartholomew's Hospital with the boy Lane when arrested.— Judgment Respited.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-292
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

292. GEORGE JOHN WAINWRIGHT (24) and GEORGE PHILLIPS (18) , Robbery upon William Philip Bacchus and stealing a knife and 15s., his property.

MR. WARNER SLEIGH Prosecuted; MR. D. METCALFE Defended Phillips.

WILLIAM PHILIP BACCHUS . I am a compositor, at 15, Eversholt Street, Camden Town—on Sunday, 1st December, about 11.20 p.m., I was in Seymour Street, St. Pancras—as I got to Drummond Crescent I was seized by two men—there were in fact three men; the prisoners are two of them, I have not the least doubt about it—Wainwright caught me by the right arm and Phillips by the left—the third man was behind—I struggled, and in the struggle I got a kick on the leg by the ankle—I don't know who did it—it dislocated the bone—the kick was from the left side and Phillips was on that side—I fell down, they picked me up, and I was dragged some distance across the road—I again struggled, and fell with the foot doubled under me after crossing two roads—Wainwright fell on me on the right with his hands in my pocket—he pulled my coat open—I became partially senseless-Phillips had his hand in my trousers pocket on the one side and Wainwright on the other, and in falling down some money fell on the pavement—I do not remember Mr. McColl on that night—on trying to get on my legs I found that the foot had gone—it had twisted out—I seemed to be walking on the stump of my leg—I had had between 14s. and 16s. in halfpence and silver, a knife and some keys—my clothes were taken off at the hospital—I did not see the things taken out, but all that was given to my wife was a street door key—I have been obliged to have my foot amputated at University Hospital.

Cross-examined by Wainwright. It was some time after this occurred when you picked me up and put me by the post—I had a ring on my finger in the cab—I did not feel anybody try to bite it off.

Cross-examined by Mr. Metcalfe. I was not drunk—I had a little, but was not the least intoxicated—I could remember everything before the kick, but not after—the Cross Keys, Peebles Road, was the last public-house I had been in—it is a little over a mile from the place—I had there two-pennyworth of Irish whisky warm; nothing else—I was with a companion about half an hour before that, at the Carpenters' Arms, Burton Street—I had twopennyworth of Irish whisky warm—I had not been to any other for two hours before that, when I had half a pint of stout and mild at the Jolly Carpenters in Euston Street—that is all I had—it would not be right if the witnesses said that I was drunk—I gave Mr. McColl my name and address.

HENRY McCOLL . I am a chairmaker, and live at 54, Great Clarendon Street—on Sunday night, 1st December, about 11.30, I was going down Seymour Street and saw Mr. Bacchus on the ground at the corner of Drummond Crescent—I was about six yards away—I got right opposite, and heard Wainwright talking rather loud—I could see his face—I also saw

Phillips—Wainwright stood Mr. Bacchus up against a lamp-post, and Phillips helped him—I asked Mr. Bacchus where he lived—he said, "15, Everholt Street"—I did not ask his name—I took his arm to lead him across the road—upon that Wainwright pulled me away, and said, "Come out of the b—way; you don't know how to hold the b—man up at all"—he led him up the street about 200 yards—I saw him put his hand into Bacchus's pocket and some money dropped out—I followed them—I saw another man not in custody pick up the money—I thought Bacchus was a little worse for liquor; it might have been from excitement—I was looking at Wainwright's hand—he asked what I was looking at, and said, "I'll put this in your bleeding eye"—I stepped back—the man not in custody gave a private whistle, and the two prisoners went across the road—I went back—a cab was coming, and Phillips came with me to it, and we went to the hospital—I heard Wainwright say to Bacchus that if he didn't get up he would kick him in the b—legs—that was when I saw them trying to put him up against the lamp-post—Phillips came to my assistance, and went to the hospital with me—I am positive he is the same man.

Cross-examined by Wainwright. When I saw you first, I did not ask you what was the matter with the prosecutor—I had just left Gower Street Station at 11.20—he went to fall, and I caught him in my arms—I did not give you any money—Phillips did not run away at all—the man who whistled ran away.

Cross-examined by Mr. Metcalfe. I could hardly say whether the prosecutor was quite sober—Phillips assisted me to take him along, and he got into the cab with me and went to the hospital—he went afterwards to Bacchus's house to fetch his wife.

JOHN GILBY (Policeman Y 472). On Sunday night, 1st December, about 11 o'clock, I was on duty in Euston Road—I noticed three men standing at the corner of Seymour Street—I know two of them—I recognise Phillips—I do not know Wainwright—the other man I know very well—they went along Seymour Street—I was with another constable.

WILLIAM HENRY COPLEY . I am house-surgeon of University College Hospital—Bacchus was brought there on the night of 1st December about 11.45, suffering from a compound fracture of the leg into the ankle joint, with a fracture of the small bone and an abrasion over, splintering the bone—it was found necessary to amputate the foot at once—I do not think the whole of the injury could have been caused by a kick—there was a bruise on the outer side—I think, possibly, the man, having been kicked, might have attempted to walk, and, falling down, might have fractured the large bone, making it a compound fracture.

Cross-examined by Mr. Metcalfe. His breath smelt, and I gave it as my. opinion before the Magistrate that he had been drinking.

JOHN OTTWAY (Police Sergeant Y). On 24th December I took Phillips in custody at the corner of Exmouth Street, near the House of Correction—he said "I know what you want me for; you want me as a witness"—I told him he would be charged with being concerned in the robbery with one in custody, and one not in custody—he said "I was there. Poacher done the dib, and Dawley picked some of the money up. I didn't do anything. I took the man to the hospital"—Wainwright is known as Poacher—Dawley is not in custody—Phillips lives at Chapel Street, Islington.

CHARLES DODD (Police Inspector T). On the morning of December 6th

I went to 1, Harrison's Court, Seymour Street, and saw Wainwright in bed—I told him I was a police officer, and he would be charged with two others for assaulting Bacchus, and robbing him—he said "You have made a mistake."

Wainwright's Defence. I know about picking up the man. I picked up a penny, and gave it to him, and I saw this man (Phillips) and another. He was holding him up. I saw Phillips kick the man, and he walked about 100 yards and fell down. Here are my boots (produced), they would not break a man's leg.

GUILTY . PHILLIPS was further charged with having been previously convicted in September, 1874.

RICHARD HUMPHRIES (Warder Coldbath Fields Prison). I was in the prison when Phillips came in for six months—he was six months under my charge—I saw him daily, and we have a photograph of him.

Cross-examined by Phillips. I do not know if you have any marks upon you, but I know we have your photograph—I can find it if necessary.

WILLIAM CLIFFORD (Policeman). Phillips is the individual referred to in the certificate (produced)—there is as much difference between him and his brother as there is between him and me—there is not much difference. in their size—I have known both the brothers ever since they were children—this is Robert Phillips—he has gone in different names.

Phillips. I have a ship on my arm, and other things tattooed over it. If they had any evidence that it was me they would bring it. If you believe what policemen say, what would be the consequence? They would bring a man in for murder any time.

NOT GUILTY of the previous conviction.

WAINWRIGHT— Six Months Imprisonment.

PHILLIPS**— Two Years' Imprisonment.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-293
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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293. HENRY GOLDSMITH (44) , Robbery upon Constant Etienne Halle, and stealing from his person five pieces of paper, two foreign coins, and 10s., his property.

MR. HUMPHREYS Prosecuted.

CONSTANT ETIENNE HALLE (through an Interpreter). I am a miller at 65; Grande Rue Boulogne, Paris—I arrived in London on 30th December—I met a soldier soon after, and remained with him till about 5.30, when I left him, and walked about for two hours—I then went to a public-house—I saw the soldier there again, and the prisoner—they spoke together, but I did not understand them—I left the public-house by myself, and ten minutes afterwards the prisoner and the soldier rushed upon me—the prisoner took hold of me by the throat—they put their hands into my pockets and took my money—my knee was scratched and my trousers torn—they took 10s. in silver, two franc pieces, and some papers, and ran away—I went to the police-station—the prisoner was brought in, and I recognised him at once—I had only drunk about two glasses the whole day—I am quite certain the prisoner is the man.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. In the morning I was with two soldiers, but when this happened there was only one—at the station I said I would not undertake to swear positively to the soldier for fear I might make a mistake—I am certain as to you.

Re-examined. When I was on the ground the prisoner had his knee on my chest, and he is the person who searched my pockets.

WILLIAM WINTER . I live at 10, Victoria Yard, Chelsea, and am a furniture salesman—on the evening of 30th January, about 9 o'clock, I was in the Coach and Horses—Halle was there talking to two soldiers, and the prisoner was sitting on the bench—he got up to speak to Hallo several times—the tall soldier left first, and then Halle left, and the prisoner followed—the prisoner had been annoying Halle—he came back to the public-house about a quarter of an hour after, and said to a woman sitting there with a white apron on "What do you think of that Frenchman? he went and bought sixpenny worth of cigarettes, and would not give me one; but I got the b——'s money"—I went outside, and saw Halle with the two policemen, and I said "There's the man inside," and I told them the very words—Halle was excited; he could not speak English.

Cross-examined. I did not say at the police-court that two soldiers went out together, and you followed after—there were two soldiers in company—the tall soldier went out, Halle followed, and you followed him—you were the third to go out—the other soldier did not go till some time afterwards.

GEORGE YOUNG . I am foreman of St. George's Vestry, and live at 45, Memorial Buildings, Pimlico—about 9.30 p.m. on 30th January I was in Lower Sloane Street—I saw the prisoner there with a soldier, leading Halle down the middle of the road—I then saw Halle in the centre of the road lying on his face between the soldier and the prisoner—whether he was thrown down or not I cannot say—I am certain the prisoner was the man.

ANNIE TAYLOR . I am housekeeper to my father, who is a police sergeant, living at 41, Lower Sloane Street—on the 30th January, about 9.30 p.m., I was coming out of our house, and saw the prisoner with a soldier and Halle—I was going across the road when I heard some one shout "Oh!" and I saw a man on the ground—the prisoner was stooping down with his arm under the man's waistcoat.

Cross-examined. I will swear you had your arm under his waistcoat—I saw you pull your arm away—he was down in front, and you was stooping—I said I thought he was the man—I could not swear to him.

EDWARD LONGSTAFF (Policeman B 464). At 9.45 p.m. on January 30th I saw Halle—he made me understand he had been robbed—I took him first to the barracks and then to the station, where he identified the prisoner, who said "It was a fine thing for me to be taken into custody, and charged with this that was committed half an hour ago."

The Prisoner's Defence. I admit being with the prosecutor, but as to robbing him, I am innocent; he was robbed; there were two soldiers implicted in the case.

GUILTY. Recommended to mercy by the Jury .— Nine Months' Imprisonment.

OLD COURT.—Wednesday, February 12th, 1879.

Before Mr. Justice Hawkins.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-294
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceCorporal > whipping; Imprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

294. DANIEL MILLER (20) and ARTHUR KITSON (19) , Robbery with violence on John Halford, and stealing 1l. Second Count, wounding with intent to murder. Two other Counts, to disable and to do grievous bodily harm.

MR. PURCELL Prosecuted; MR. STEWART WHITE defended Kitson.

JOHN HALFORD . I am a labourer in the employment of Mr. Wilde, of

Hayes—for the last 11 years I have been employed as a watcher to Sir Charles Mills—the prisoners work in the brickfield—I have known Miller all his life, and Kitson two or three years—on Monday, 23rd December about 5 in the evening, I was coming across a field in Hayes parish, I heard somebody beating in the cover, I got over a stile out of a ploughed field into a meadow, and walked along one side of the cover, I could not see any one, and I turned back and met the prisoners and another man named Edward Jellaman, who is not apprehended yet; they had just come over the stile out of the cover—Miller had got on a brown jacket, Kitson had something on his face, or it was blacked, I had but one sight, they gave me no chance—I said, "What are you chaps doing here I you had better go away"—they began swearing, language not fit to mention in Court, and said, "What have you to do with it I we will corpse you"—all of them used the language, all together—they then all rushed at me, knocked me down, and kicked me about—I was alone—one of them had a stick in his hand, I had a fork under my left arm that I had been working with all day—while I was down, Miller said, "Have you got any bleeding money about you I if you have we mean having it"—I did not say anything—Miller got his hand in one of my trousers pockets, and Kitson in the other as I laid on the ground—I said, "If you will let me alone I will give you what I have got"—Miller said, "Well, let us have it, then, and bleeding quick"—I then gave Miller a sovereign, I had more in my pocket, I said, "Here is a sovereign, don't knock me about no more, don't murder me"—Miller then hit me in the face with his fist, and said, "We mean finishing of you"—they were all three close together; the other two then began kicking me again—Jella-man said, "Let us corpse him, let us make a job of it now we have got the chance"—Jellaman is a man just about the game age, size, and stamp as the prisoners—they kept kicking me about, and one of them, I can't say which, said, "There are two or three more of you b—s we mean to serve the same"—they kicked me a few more times after that, and then went away, and left me lying in the snow; they kicked me all over my head, at the back of the left ear and face, all down my thighs and private parts, and my hands; there are the scars now—they aimed at my private parts, it was not an accident—Jellaman kicked straight right between my legs as I laid on the ground—just before they went away they kicked my hand, when I tried to save my private parts—I can't say who kicked me there besides Jellaman, they kicked at me there several times, I was partly stunned—I suffered for several days, but not a great lot; I bled, they kicked the skin off me, I was all sores all over the head and face—they kicked the skin off my private parts, and they smashed the back of my hand—I bled all about my face and head—when I recovered myself I went home to a neighbour's, Mr. Trussler, the under gamekeeper, I live in the next house to him—I made a complaint to him, and asked him to go up to Mr. Gold's along with me.

By the COURT. I had given offence to the prisoners—I had been up as a witness against Kitson not very long ago, for poaching, very close on the same spot of ground—I was assaulted at Yedding once, and Miller was in that, but I never had him apprehended, or gave evidence against him—I had not had any threats from either of them before.

Cross-examined by Miller. I knew you perfectly well, I swear to you by your features, and your clothes, and your stamp—you had on a brown jacket with a corded front, and fustian sleeves and back, very old, you could wear another one over it if you liked, and a billycock hat.

Cross-examined by MR. WHFFE. I have known Kitson two or three years, I knew him before he came to Hayes—this was at 5 o'clock, getting dusk—Kitson either had hit face blacked, or had a mask, I could not say which, it was either one or the other—I have not said that I could dis-tinguish him by his features—they all three swore and used these expressions; they all shouted our at once, and rushed at me as the same time they were speaking—I recognised Kitson's voice, and I knew him by his stamp besides—I knew Miller without taking notice of his voice—I gave information to the police the same night—Kitson worked in the neighbourhood—he was arrested about three weeks afterwards, he could not be found—I gave information about him the next morning, I told the sergeant he had his face blacked—I remember seeing a stick, I can't say which had it.

HENRY TRUSSLER . I am under-gamekeeper to Sir Charles Mille—I live next to Halford—he came round to me on the evening of 23rd Dec., a little after 5; he was smothered in blood—next morning I went to a field belonging to Mr. Wilshire, the place Halford told me of—I found where three men had been and a dog, I could track them—the place was covered with snow, and there was blood on the snow; there was a good drop of blood, it spread about 3 yards—I found a fork, a stick, and a cap lying there—I produce them—the handle of the fork was broken as it is now, not the prongs; there was blood on the handle and on the iron-work—I did not find any on the stick—there were footsteps in the snow where there bad been trampling about—there were three tracks of footsteps leading towards the Industry public-house and from it, and one the opposite way—I saw the footsteps of the dog distinctly.

JOHN HALFORD (Re-examined). I never saw any dog, they did not give me any chance—I don't know what became of my fork, I never saw it till the following Monday—I had it under my left arm when I spoke to them; they knocked me down with the fork under my arm—I never used it at all—I could not say if they were sober, I should think they must have been, they appeared to be sober.

EDWARD GOULD . I am head gamekeeper to Sir Charles Mille—Halford and Trussler came to me on the evening of 23rd—Halford was smothered in blood. I could hardly see a bit of his face for the blood; he seemed very weak, he could hardly stand—I took him inside, put a chair for him, and gave him some brandy—three or four days afterwards I went to Mr. Wilshire's field—I had seen Kitson shortly before this about the neighbour-hood, about Easter time.

EVALINE ROUSE . I am the wife of Christopher Rouse, who keeps the Industry beerhouse, at Hayes—I know the two prisoners—on 23rd Dec. they came into my house in the middle day with Jellaman—they stayed a short time, it might have been an hour—I saw them again about 6 in the evening, ail three together.

Cross-examined by Miller. At the time you left my house you were dressed just as you are now—you had a white hat.

Cross-examined by MR. WHITE. I recollect the time they came because I was just taking my little children to bed—no one has been speaking to me about this—I am quite sure it was 6 o'clock, not before or after.

By the COURT. Miller has a black hat, I generally saw him in a black hat—he had not got a brown jacket corded in front, he had no more clothes than he stands up in now—that is all I have seen him in, except a dirty

corded jacket—I could not say what sort of sleeves it had, I believe they were fustian—the back was the same as the sleeves—he does not often wear a white hat—he wore the white hat when he left my house in the morning, and the same when he came in at 6—he lodges with us, so I know his clothes—he came downstairs in the morning and had his breakfast—he did not go to work that day, he had not done any work for a week, there was no work for him to do—our house is not much used by these brickmakers—we have not kept it long—a few persons came in middle day, more than generally—there were not many in the evening, no more than our other lodgers—we have six lodgers—Jellaman was not one; he has been to the house several times, but was not in the habit of using it—I never saw either of the prisoners with a dog, I am sure of that—I saw Miller's corded jacket hanging up that day; it always does hang up when he has not got it on—I recollect it particularly, it hung on the horse—there are several rooms in which the men slept—Joseph Drinkwater slept in the same room; he was dressed in felt clothes that day—his clothes were not hanging up—he was at work that day—he had only one suit—I did not see any of the other lodgers' clothes hanging up that day—I am quite sure they were not.

CHRISTOPHER ROUSE . I keep the Industry beershop—I have known Miller all his lifetime and Kitson about two or three years—Miller has lodged with us about nine months, ever since I took the place—I was not at home in the early part of 23rd December; I went out about 9 and came home about 3 in the afternoon—I did not see either of the prisoners there in the day; they came in about 6 o'clock with Jellaman and a young woman; they stopped, it might be, half an hour; they had two pots of beer and half an ounce of tobacco; they did not pay for it; Miller said he would pay another time, as it had been usual for him to pay once a week—Kitson and Jellaman came to my house the night Miller was taken into custody.

Cross-examined by MR. WHITE. There were seven or eight persons in the house that night besides the prisoners—I did not see a dog.

By the COURT. I have seen the prisoners and Jellaman together at frequent times—sometimes they have been by themselves, sometimes I have seen them separately—I never knew ere a one of them have a dog—I did not see a dog with them that day—I have seen one with them at times; it used to be a black dog, a big one, a kind of greyhound dog, a lurcher; I have seen one of that sort with them; I have seen them with a dog when they have been together—Miller had on a black jacket that evening, the jacket he has on now, and to the best of my recollection a billycock hat—he had an old corded jacket which he used to go to work in; he did not wear it when he went out anywhere—he used to wear it at times and this one at times; that night I know he was wearing this because I have seen him with it on so many times—I never saw him wear a white hat—I have no recollection of what clothes Kitson had on, whether he had a black or brown coat—I do not recollect how Jellaman was dressed; all I know is they were in the house.

ELIZABETH JOLLY . I am the wife of Thomas Jolly, who keeps the Willow Tree public-house—that is about half a mile from the Industry—I have seen the two prisoners at our house—I saw them there on the evening of 3rd December, from about 7 till 8, as near as I could judge—Jellaman was with them—they had two pots of beer—Kitson paid a shilling for it.

Cross-examined by MR. WHITE. Kitson had not been into my house for a

long time before this—we had no one else but those men in the house that night, so I could not make a mistake about the time.

By the COURT. I heard of Halford being beaten that night, when the policeman came after them.

JAMES WEEKES (Policeman X 448). I saw the prisoners and Jellaman on the morning of the 23rd December, about ten minutes to 11—they had a dog with them, a lurcher; they were going in the direction of the Industry; Miller had a stick like the one produced; he had on his ordinary suit that he wears in the brickfield, a cord-fronted waistcoat and what is termed a velveteen back; it was much coloured with soot, as he had been in the habit of going about with a sweep for some weeks—he had on a soft felt hat, black; I am positive of that—I did not see any blood on their clothes.

Cross-examined by MR. WHITE. Kitson came to the station to try and get Miller out on bail.

JOSEPH MORBY (Policeman 414 A R). On the. night of 23rd December, in consequence of information of this assault and robbery, I went to the Industry public-house—I made inquiry there for Miller—I did not find him there—I found him in a meadow between Mr. Odell's brickfield and the Willow Tree public-house about 8.30—I said, "Miller, you are charged with assaulting and attempting to rob John Halford at 5 o'clock to-day"—he said, "All right, Mr. Morby, I will go with you; I know nothing about it; I have been drinking at this house with my mates the last three hours"—we were then close to the Willow Tree—I afterwards went into the Willow Tree and found Kitson, Jellaman, and George Drinkwater, sitting in the taproom—I did not apprehend Kitson that night; Mr. Gould decided to take out warrants for him and Jellaman, as Kitson was stated to have had a black face, and Jellaman was not known personally to Halford—his name was not mentioned that night, Kitson's was—I ultimately apprehended Kitson on 18th January at the London Gas Works, Nine Elms—I said to him, "You are charged with assaulting and attempting to rob Halford on 23rd December at 5 o'clock"—he did not answer at first; he seemed very nervous as I was putting on the handcuffs—he said, "I am innocent of the job; I will go with you"—I said, "Where is Jellaman?"—he said, "Jellaman, I don't know him; I might know his nickname, but I don't know Jellaman"—he afterwards said, "I was coming home on Saturday night to save you the trouble."

Cross-examined by MR. WHITE. I did not take Kitson at first as I was acting under instructions, partly from Mr. Gould; I might have arrested him—I did not say to Drinkwater, "You have got the soot off your face."

By the COURT. When I took Miller he was wearing a pilot jacket, a black, soft felt hat, and a pair of cord trousers; I believe it was a rougher coat than the one he has on now.

ALFRED LUPTON . I am assistant to Mr. Parrott, a surgeon at Hayes—about 7.30, on 23rd, Halford was brought to me; I examined his face and head—I found 10 superficial bruises or wounds about the head and face; they had bled profusely; the skin was broken—the left ear had been bleed-ing profusely, but the hæmorrhage had stopped; that was a very dangerous injury—there were considerable bruises about the hips; they were not lacera tions; the skin was not broken—on the back of the left hand there was a severe bruise, the skin being broken—he remained under my care about 10 days; he was in bed the most part of the time—the testicle was severely

injured; I believe by a kick, from his statement—the injuries were exactly such as might be produced by a kick—he has recovered from them now.

Miller, in his defence, stated that he was in company with Kitson and Jellaman at the Industry from about 12 till 3.30, when he left there, and did not see them again till 5.45, when he went with them to the Willow Tree and had some beer.

EVALINE ROUSE (Re-examined). I am sure Miller had on a white hat in the morning, and also at 6 o'clock; he kept his hat where his clothes were—as a usual thing he did not wear his white hat—I have seen the hat on the top of the cupboard, but never saw him wear it before; it was a thing that struck me—my husband saw him at 6; I don't know whether he noticed the hat; he stood in the tap room—Miller has no pilot coat.

GUILTY on all the counts except the intent to murder .— Twenty-five Lashes each and Seven Years' Penal Servitude .

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-295
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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295. GEORGE ROBERTSON HAYWARD (34) , Rape on Charlotte Mary Burns.

MR. WAITE Prosecuted; MR. STRAIGHT Defended.

GUILTY of the attempt .— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

NEW COURT.—Wednesday, February 12th, 1879.

Before Mr. Recorder.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-296
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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296. SAMUEL JOHN MEARS (39) PLEADED GUILTY to feloniously forging and uttering an order for the payment of 78l. 15s., with intent to defraud; also to stealing the said order .— Judgment Respited.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-297
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation
SentenceImprisonment > newgate

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297. WILLIAM JACKSON, Unlawfully attempting to obtain six boxes of cigars and two pounds of tobacco of William Hedges, and other goods from other persons.


WILLIAM HEDGES . I am one of the firm of Benson and Hedges, cigar merchants, of 13, Old Bond Street—on 15th December a customer of mine, William Worth Newenham, left this country for Australia—I did not see him on board the Somersetshire—on 24th December, I received this letter: "December 24th, 1878. Coxe's Hotel, 32 Room. Sir,—he so good as to send me three boxes of Maria Victorias, and three of La Intimidads, and two pounds of your smoking mixture, as soon as possible.—Yours truly, W. W. Newenham." I went to Cox's Hotel, and made inquiries and went back, and then Mr. Adams, the clerk to Messrs. Beale and Inman, called on me, and I went again to Cox's Hotel about 1 o'clock with him, and saw the prisoner in the coffee-room—I produced the letter, and Mr. Adams also produced a letter—I addressed the prisoner as Mr. Newenham; he said, "Yes"—I said, "You have written to me for some cigars"—he said, "They are for Mr. George Newenham"—I said, "What is the meaning of this, did you write this letter?" he said, "No, it is written by George Newenham," either a cousin or brother of William Newenham, I am not certain which he said—I said, "How came you to come to this hotel in the name of Newenham, when your name is Jackson?"—he said, "I came for the purpose of receiving the goods—he also said that he knew that W. W. Newenham had gone to Australia in the

Somersetshire—I told him it was a very serious case; he most make his explanation before a Magistrate, and gave him in custody—he said, "I was going to take the goods to Mr. George Newenham"—one of the witnesses said, "Where is Mr. George Newenham"—he said, I had rather not say," or words to that effect—Mr. Adams showed him his letter, and he said, "I posted that with one other"—I said, "To whom was the third letter written?"—he said, "I decline to say," but we discovered that after-wards—I know Mr. W. W. Newenham's writing, and I am certain that these three letters and envelopes were not written by him—I have his writing in our address-book, and have compared it—the cigars and the smoking mixture are worth from 20?. to 25l.—I fancy I have seen the prisoner at our place of business-his face is familiar to me—I have made several inquiries, but cannot hear of hear of George Newenham's existence.

Cross-examined. I have known W. W. Newenham since June 11, 1878; that was the first time he came—he has had dealings with us to the amount of 3/. or 4?., for which he paid; but the amount standing to his debit now is about 30?.—he came to the shop, and was a constant customer up to the time of his leaving—he belongs to a good family; his father is an Irish gentleman of property—the defendant's brother has had dealings with us for about two years, and owes us about 100l.—we have received a letter from him since the defendant has been in custody, asking for his account—he lives either at his father's seat, or at the town residence in Park Street—the family is one of position—there is no attempt to imitate Mr. Newen-ham's writing in my book in this order—when I went to the hotel on the second occasion the defendant had not come down from his bedroom, but he came down into the coffee-room—nobody else was there—I told him that his name was Jackson—I knew that, because I saw it marked on his clothes, which had been given to the servant to brush, but I did not know that he was connected with that family—I had no knowledge of a third letter till the defendant said that he had posted three—he repeated at the station that he had posted three letters, but he did not say to whom the third was sent—we discovered that afterwards.

RICHARD JAMES INMAN . I am one of the firm of Beale and Inman, of 131, New Bond Street, hosiers—on the morning of 24th December this letter came by post and my partner showed it to me—I have not got the envelope now—we had a customer named William Worth Newenham: "Coxe's Hotel, 32 Room, Jermyn Street. Sir,—Kindly send me a fight-coloured smoking suit, the same as you sent me last tune; also three of your thickest coloured Jerseys, and ditto drawers, six made-up hunting ties, three white, remainder black and white. Kindly let me have them as soon as possible. Yours, &c., W. W. Newenham." We had known W. W. Newenham since 1874, and were in the habit of giving him credit—the goods mentioned in the letter are worth about 15l.—I did not know the prisoner before this.

Cross-examined. The prisoner commenced to deal with us in July, 1878, and we gave him credit—we had given his brother credit and therefore we opened an account with him—when I said that I did not know him, I meant not by sight—we are not in the habit of seeing our customers—we have given him credit to about 19l.—he had been to our shop and bad seen my partner or one of our men—we had Mr. Newenham's writing in our possession—he sent us a remittance for his account—I believe we have

some of the defendant's writing, but I am not sure, as orders sometimes get mislaid—I do not think this order is an imitation of Mr. Newenham's writing.

WILLIAM ADAMS . I am clerk to Messrs. Beale and Inman—on 24th December I went with Mr. Hedges to Cox's Hotel—we saw the prisoner in the coffee-room, and Mr. Hedges said "Are you Mr. Newenham?"—he said "Yes"—Hedges said "You ordered some cigars of me"—he said "Yes"—Hedges said "I have brought the cigars, but you are not Mr. Newenham, you are Mr. Jackson; you had no business to have ordered things of me, signing Mr. Newenham's name; you have committed a forgery; don't you know Mr. Newenham has gone to Australia?"—he said "Yes, I do"—I said "What about this letter?" handing mine to him. "Very likely you have been sending it to half a dozen others. Are there any more?"—he said "I only posted three altogether"—I said "Who was the other to?"—he said "I shan't tell you"—Mr. Hedges said "I shall give you in charge"—he begged him not, and said who he was, and said "Mr. George Newenham has written them, and I was to stay at the hotel for the goods"—I said "Who is Mr. George Newenham?"—he said "He is my cousin" or "brother," I won't gay which—I know the prisoner as a customer—I saw him in our shop about three months ago, and one of the young men said "There is Mr. Warren Jackson's brother."

Cross-examined. Mr. Warren Jackson is well known to our firm, but I have only seen him once—the reason the young man pointed him out was that he is rather a fast buyer—I recognised the prisoner as he came down the hotel stairs, and I knew that his clothes were marked "W. 0. Jackson"—we had one written order of his, and the others must have been given personally—there are 20 entries to him under different dates, so that he must have been 17 or 19 times on our premises.

GUSTAVE FAURBACK . I am a cigar merchant, of 188, Oxford Street—Mr. W. Worth Newenham has been a customer of mine for three years—on the morning of the 24th December I received by post a letter signed "W. W. Newenham," and sent some cigars mentioned in it, worth about 20l., by my workman, Powis, about 6 p.m., who brought them back—the prisoner has been a customer of mine some years.

Cross-examined. I have known his family five or six years, and I know his father, who is highly respectable, living in Park Street, and having an estate in Ireland—I have trusted the defendant, but not for a large sum,; 11. or 21., and he has paid me—I was willing to give him credit—if he had sent this order in his own name I should most decidedly have given him credit for it—some time before I received this letter a young gentle-man and a young married lady who, I believe, had been Miss Jackson, the defendant's sister, came and purchased three pipes—I did not recognise the gentleman, and took up a pen and was going to take down his address, when he said, "Don't you know me? I am Mr. Newenham"—I said, "I did not recognise you"—he said, "I have taken my moustache off"—I did not dispute his word—he was not the prisoner, and I will not swear that it was Mr. W. Newenham—I did not doubt that he was after the explanation he gave, (I had only seen Mr. W. Newenham half a dozen times in three years)—he had three pipes, one of which was a death's head—he said that he wanted two of them for a present for two gentlemen, Mr. Jackson and Mr. Sadler—I do not know that Mr. Sadler is the husband of

the lady—I sent one pipe to Mr. Jackson, the other to Mr. Sadler, and he took away the death's head, and one or two days afterwards brought it back and changed it for another—that was about 10 days before December 24th—this is it (produced)—I should have known Mr. Jackson the moment I saw him—I did not take any proceedings against the prisoner.

Re-examined. The pipe I sent to W. Jackson was sent to 36, Park Street.

BERNARD WEISS . I am a workman at Mr. Faurback's—on 24th December be gave me a parcel to take to Cox's Hotel, addressed Mr. W. W. Newenham—I took it there about 6 p.m.—they told me something there, and I brought back the parcel to my master.

HENRY NUNN . I am porter at Cox's Hotel—on 23rd December the prisoner came there in a cab about 6.30 or 7.30 p.m.—I asked him his name—he said W. W. Newenham—he engaged room No. 32, and I took up part of his luggage—in the morning I said to him, "I beg your pardon, Sir, but did I misunderstand your name last night, W. W. Newenham?"—he said, "W. W. Newenham"—I have been at the hotel three years, but do not know the prisoner by sight or W. W. Newenham—I pointed the pri-soner out to Mr. Hedges on the 24th—I had noticed "W. 0. J." on his portmanteau, but I had no reason for asking him if I had made a mistake in-his name till Mr. Hedges came and thought there was something wrong.

Cross-examined. A book is kept at the hotel with the names of the cus-tomers—I have not searched it for the prisoner's name or his brother's five or six years ago—I know there has been a Jackson there, but cannot say how long ago; not before my time—I saw the name in the ledger when the book-keeper was looking up the names after Mr. Hedges came—the initials were painted on the end of his portmanteau in large plain letters—I took his clothes down to brush—he put them outside his room—I found W. 0. Jackson upon them, and Mr. Hedges saw them.

JAMES O'DEA (Police Sergeant). On 24th December the prisoner was given into my custody by Mr. Hedges at Cox's Hotel—I told him the charge, and said "What were you going to do with the goods?"—he said "I was going to send them to George Newenham"—I asked him where George Newenham was—he said "I decline to say"—I took him in custody, and after he was charged he said, "Last night I was at the Raleigh Club with several other men; I met George Newenham, who said 'I have succeeded up to the present in evading my creditors, and now I am off, and if any of you want any orders you can have them;' and among the rest, knowing that he owed me 10/., I said I wanted some orders, and he gave me two," or "three," I forget which; "I took the orders in payment of the 10l. he owed me."

Cross-examined. I saw him in the coffee-room of the hotel about 12 o'clock—I went twice—Hedges and Adams were also in the coffee-room—the prisoner gave me his address at the station willingly, 36, Park Street—he at first wanted me to go and tell his father, but afterwards he said that I had better not, as his father was ill, and it might tend to make him worse; that was at the cell door after he had been before the Magistrate.

CAPTAIN ARTHUR EWEN . I am secretary of the Raleigh Club—I do not know the prisoner—Mr. W. W. Newenham is a member of the club, but not George Newenham, nor has he ever been—this is the visitors' book, in which every member when he comes in is supposed to enter the name of his visitors in any case—I have never seen the prisoner before.

Cross-examined. This book Is kept oh a desk close to the hall-porter's box—it is not the hall-porter's duty to enter the names, but the members—there is no penalty—all members enter their friends' names as far as possible, but there is no consequence as to not doing it to members, to their friends, or to myself, it depends upon whether the member chooses to do it—strangers do come to the club and dine there, and are admitted into the coffee-room—we have a considerable number of strangers—they go all over the club except into the card-room.

WILLIAM HEDGES (Re-examined by SIR H. JAMES). I knew that W. W. Newenham had gone away, by inquiry of the tradesmen who had supplied him with goods to take away, and he was accompanied by another customer) who I had to follow to Bristol to serve with a writ.

Witnesses for the Defence.

WILLIAM OLIVER JACKSON . The prisoner is my second son—I am a magistrate for the county of Cork, and am in London six months in winter—I think his age was 22 last September—he has been living at home with me—this is the first imputation I have heard against him—I have also a daughter and another son.

Cross-examined by MR. POLAND. I know W. W. Newenham, but not George Newenham—I should not like to swear to the letters produced—this one is like the prisoner's writing, but I will not swear to it—I should not like to swear that it is not—I do not think the two last are alike.

Reexamined. I never knew that W. W. Newenham had any cousins.

CAPTAIN NICOLAS SADLER . I am married to the defendant's sister, and am quartered at Aldershot—I have known him four years intimately—he has always conducted himself as an honest, respectable person.

Cross-examined. I know his writing—I will swear that these three letters are not his writing—I do not know George Newenham or W. W. Newenham.

GUILTY. Recommended to mercy by the Jury on account of his character, and also by Mr. Hedges; and Dr. Allen stated that he suffered from dysentery and nerve prostration, and that it was advisable that he should go to Ceylon .— Two Months in Newgate .

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-298
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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298. MITCHELL NICHOLLS (32) , Feloniously forging and uttering an order for the payment of 5l., with intent to defraud.

MR. DENISON Prosecuted; the evidence was interpreted to the Prisoner.

JOHN HANDLEY . I am a sailor, and live at Wells Street, opposite the Home—on 23rd January I was in a train coming from Bristol to London With the prisoner—I had in my purse an order for 5l. on the Tower Hill shipping office, and gave it to the prisoner as security for his paying my passage from Bristol to London—I was to draw the money afterwards and pay him—I was turned out of the train for being drunk—I afterwards saw the prisoner in London, and asked him for my note; he said he would give it me in the morning—I saw him in the morning, and he told me he had drawn the money—when I came up to London on the Thursday he gave me 10s., and said that he had no more money, but afterwards he said that he had drawn the order—I did not authorise him to draw it.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You did not say that I could draw the money at Bristol—I said that I should have to wait three days to draw it there because they would have to telegraph to London and get a telegram

back—you did pay my fare, but I did not go in the train—I did not say, "Take that note, and when you get to London, you or me, it does not matter which, can change it"—you understand English very well—I came from Iquique to Bristol with you.

Prisoner. I paid 12s. for you at Bristol; the fare was 12s. 6d., and 10s. 6d. in London; it Was 35s. altogether.

JOHN HENRY HYATT . I am deputy-superintendent and cashier at the Mercantile Marine Office, St. Katherine's Dock House, Tower Hill—this seaman's money-order for 5l. (produced) was presented to a clerk in the office named Richards on 23rd January, and then I paid it, but I do not know to whom—it is in favour of John Handley, and is signed by a cross—when an order is presented we invariably ask the presenter's name, and in the case of a sailor the name of his ship.

HENRY RICHARDS . I am a clerk in the Mercantile Marine office—on 23rd Jan. the prisoner came there and presented this order—I asked his name, he said "John Handley"—I asked him if he wrote his name, he said "No"—I handed a pen to him and he made a cross—I spoke and he answered in English—I signed the note and he got the money from the cashier—he gave the name that is on the note or I should not have paid him.

ARTHUR HARRIS (Policeman H 36). The prisoner was given into my custody—on the way to the station he said "I was about to leave Bristol at 1 o'clock in the day to come to London, and John Handley had no money, only a seaman's order; I said to him I cannot let you have any more money unless you give me the order;' he was too drunk, and was kept back at the station, but he gave me the order, and I came on to London"—he also said that he went and changed it, as Handley owed him 3l. having lent him 5s. at one time, and 5s. at another, that he afterwards saw him in the Rose and Crown, that he cashed the note and afterwards gave Handley 10s., and he had told him before that he had get the order cashed.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "Prosecutor said to me 'Take the note, and when you get to London cash it, and pay yourself what you lent me, and give me the rest.' He was tight."

Prisoner's Defence. When I arrived in London I could get no money, and I was obliged to go and change this note, and before Handley got to London he had spent a little of it, and of course it he did not pay the man for bringing his goods to the boarding-house he should not get them, and when he arrived in London I said "You owe me 3l., allow me to go to one of my friends and get the money," but he would not give me time. It was 7 o'clock at night, and I had to give 6s. to the cabman.


THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, February 12th, 1879.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-299
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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299. ANTHONY ADAMS (43) , Stealing a post letter containing one sovereign and 92 penny postage stamps, the property of Her Majesty's Post-master-General.


ROBERT BRADFORD . I am a clerk in the Missing Letter Department of the General Post Office—on Saturday, 11th January, in consequence

of complaints of loss of letters, I made up two test letters at the South Lambeth Sorting Office—I addressed one "Mrs. Watson, 79, Motley Street, Wandsworth Road, London," and the other "Mr. Tatlow, Tailor, 30, Robertson Street, East Wandsworth Road, London"—in the letter to Mrs. Watson I enclosed a sovereign and 55 stamps—I previously marked the stamps with the date with chemicals, and the coin with my initials—I posted the letters in the pillar box at the corner of Devonshire Road, Wandsworth Road, about 200 yards from the sorting office—I had given special instructions about them and saw them cleared at about 6.10 by a man named Spear, head letter carrier—at about 6.50 I saw the prisoner leave the Sorting Office (where I had seen the letters taken) to go out on his delivery—I watched him down to his own house—I could not see if he had anything in his hands—it was contrary to regulation to go to his house before his delivery—he remained in his house about ten minutes or a quarter of an hour—after that I saw him pass through Motley Street—I saw him pass the door of No. 79 without delivering—he did not go into Robertson Street—I had given instructions to Spear at South Lambeth Office—I then returned to the office—I saw the prisoner there at about 8.20 and told him who I was—I said "Have you been into your house on the 6 o'clock delivery?"—he said "No," and I said "Did you do the Queen's Road delivery on the sixes?"—that is a techincal term for the 6 o'clock delivery—he said "Yes"—these letters would be in that delivery—I said "I saw you go down to your house; you remained there from 10 to 15 minutes"—he would have had to go out of his route to go to his house—he replied "Not so long as that"—I said "Did you give your wife anything?"—he said "No"—I said "Did you give her any money at that time?"—he said "No"—I said "Did you see a letter on the 6 o'clock delivery for Mrs. Watson, 79, Motley Street?"—he said "No"—I said "Did you see one for Mr. Tatlow, Tailor?"—he said "No"—I said "Both those letters are missing, they were sorted out for your 6 o'clock delivery, do you know anything about them?"—he said "No"—this conversation occurred at the post office about 8.20 the same evening—after that I went to the prisoner's house and saw his wife—that was about an hour and a half after the letters were entrusted to him—he had been home before he commenced his delivery—I am not able to say whether he went in afterwards, we lost sight of him—nothing has been found with regard to the letter addressed to Mrs. Watson—on the following Monday the letter addressed to Mr. Tatlow, Tailor, turned up at the S.W. District Office—when we went to the prisoner's house we were kept waiting at the door a long time—on going in I saw his wife—I saw a lot of postage stamps there that were unobliterated, and as if torn from envelopes and newspapers—the paper had been bodily torn off with them, and was still adhering—I also noticed embers of paper recently burnt in the grate—I examined them—I could make nothing of them positively—I went back again to see the prisoner—this was about 10.30 the same evening—I saw him in the sorting office, I had him detained there in the meantime—I said "I have seen your wife, she says you gave her some money; be careful what you say; what did you give her?"—he said "I gave her a sovereign and a few shillings"—I said "What did she do with the sovereign?"—he said "She changed it"—I said "I suppose it was to pay for the gin I saw upon the table?"—he said "Yes, it might have been"—I said "What change did she bring you back, was there a half-sovereign amongst it?"—he said "Yes,

and I gave her another to put away; she wrapped it in paper"—I said "Where did you get the sovereign?"—he said "It is my Christmas boxes, I changed it from silver to gold to part it more easily with my partners"—I said "Where did you change it?"—he said "I don't know"—I said "Where did you get the second half-sovereign you gave your wife?"—he said "I don't know"—he was searched at the office and nothing found upon him relating to this charge—the letter addressed to Mr. Tatlow, Tailor, had two half-sovereigns and a sixpence in it.

Cross-examined. There were half-sovereigns in it—it was not delivered—it was found in the post-office with the contents the same—I opened it myself, and found precisely the same amount I had placed in it—it had not been violated—with regard to the other letter I marked the sovereign—I have since found out where it had been changed—it was too late on the Saturday night to follow it up—I did not know then—I did not ask his wife, because she denied having a sovereign—I did not tell the prisoner so—when I went at half-past 9 I saw some paper in the grate, which appeared to have been recently burnt, I should think within five or ten minutes before I came in, from its appearance—the prisoner was there at about 7 o'clock—he went home before his delivery—this was not his usual delivery—the house where he had to call was not empty; a policeman lived there—men are not allowed to call home on their beat—in a case of necessity it would be different—I am not in the office, and heard nothing of his having a telegram—the stamps found in the lining of his hat are not the stamps I put in the letter—I found no traces of them—I watched him through nearly the whole beat—Police-officer Smee was with me.

Re-examined. The stamps were found in the lining of his hat—some pieces of paper addressed to Derby and a post packet were also found—they form the subject of another inquiry—when I went to his house the landlady answered the door—it was seven or eight minutes before I could get into the room—they said Mrs. Adams was not at home—there was plenty of time for the paper to have been burnt—the papers seemed freshly burnt—they were not disarranged—I tried to take them up, but they crumbled to pieces—he was searched at 20 minutes past 8, an hour and a half after ho had finished his delivery.

WILLIAM SPEAR . I am head letter-carrier at the South Lambeth Sorting Office—on the 11th January I saw Mr. Bradford post the two letters addressed to Tatlow and Watson about 6 o'clock—I afterwards collected those letters and brought them to the office—I sorted them to the Queen's Road delivery—I then saw the prisoner arranging his letters for delivery, and saw him pick the test letters out from the others—I was about a yard from him—my attention had been previously called to them—I saw him place the two letters on his right-hand side, and the other letters on the left—they were not tied—they were placed ready to be taken out on delivery—I swear the two letters were on the right—he pressed them with his finger—I. saw him examine them—I saw the address on one of the letters—I could read it distinctly—he took the two test letters up in his right hand in the sorting office, and the others in his left hand—he walked straight out of the office still holding the two letters in his right hand, they were not registered—it was a most unusual thing to do—they ought to stand in their order all in one hand—there was a large bundle, over twenty in number—I went out on delivery soon after—not with Adams—I saw him after I came back—I believe he brought some letters back—I had nothing to do with them.

By the COURT. It is not usual to take letters out in the hands—the letter-carriers put them in a bag, but having a light delivery a bag was not required—it is usual to tie them up, hut it was not done then.

Cross-examined. The prisoner did not put the letters in a bag—I did not see one—I could not swear he had no bag, nor that he did not put the letters in—I do not think he had one—I will not swear he had not—he should have placed them in a bag in the office—I cannot say whether he might have done so in passing out—he was there when I went back—I know that some letters he placed hack for delivery on the next round—I did not see them placed—letters not delivered and brought hack are supposed to he written on—I do not know where he placed them—fifteen persons were employed there at night—my attention was called to two letters especially—I stood close behind him, about a yard away—I was closer to him sometimes, walking behind him, and could see What the two letters were—I do not think he knew I was behind him—he did not look round—there were six others there—they would not be near—they were about two or three yards apart, arranging the letters—I will swear he had them in his hand on leaving—he did not place them together in a bag—I will not swear he had a bag—I did not see him place the letters in—it was not his duty to collect or sort the letters that hour—they do not sort them for their own district—this was not his district—he was sent there as a substitute for another man.

By the JURY. A letter containing com would be liable to registration—it would be his duty to give them up to me to be registered; I thought he was going to do so—the fact of a letter containing coin having passed me might excite his suspicion that it was a test letter.

Re-examined. I brought the letters together from the pillar-box—I placed them together—there were no other letters that should have been returned—I should have registered them—the fact of my not registering these two ought to have excited the prisoner's attention—I did not register those two, because they were test letters—it would otherwise have been my duty to have registered them—it was then the prisoner's duty—letters are sometimes passed containing coin, and it would be his duty to have them registered—he should have given them to me—the letters not being tied up would be tumbled out of the sorting.

By MR. BRINDLEY. We get various sums for Christmas-boxes and presents—my proportion last Christmas was 7l. or 8l.—it was not very remarkable for a letter-carrier to have 2l. or 3l. in his pocket—we begin collecting Christmas-boxes on boxing-day, sometimes a little later—we divide the money between so many men on the walk—there is none handed to them on account—in some districts we have to wait till June before the last payment is received—I cannot say how many days the prisoner had to get rid of this money—I do not know how long he has been in the service.

WALTER ROYAL . I am assistant-overseer at the Post-office—I saw part of the letters brought back from the prisoner's 6 o'clock collection—they were sent on by Bonard—the prisoner did not give me any letters—they were not brought to me among the letters brought back.

ALFRED BONARD . I am employed at the South Lambeth sorting office, and I make the 8 o'clock delivery for Queen's Road—if any letters had been brought back by the prisoner from the 6 o'clock delivery they would have fallen into my delivery—some letters did on the 11th January—I showed

part of them to the witness Royal—the 6 o'clock delivery at 8 o'clock is divided into two parts—I showed him all I had—my part would contain; Motley Street and Robertson Street—I saw nothing of the two letters that have been described.

Cross-examined. I should deliver a portion of them—letters from the previous delivery ought to be spoken of—Adams collects from the sorters and brings them round to the men to sort for the walks, and he must have brought these letters to the sorting-table—different men sort them—they pass through four men's hands before they get to me—I never saw the two letters at all—they never reached me—I do not know if the prisoner had a telegram—I had no conversation with him about any illness in the family—I was not there in the afternoon—I heard no talk of it in the office.

GEORGE MOORE (Policeman W 200). I live at 79, Motley Street—on the evening of Saturday, 11th Jan., I was expecting a letter addressed to Mrs. Watson, at that address—I was told I should have a letter come by the 6 o'clock delivery, by a person connected with the Post-office authorities.

WILLIAM SMEE . I am a constable attached to the Post-office—I searched the prisoner on the 11th, about half-past 8, by direction of Mr. Bradford, and found these stamps in the lining of his cap—I asked him where he lived—he said at No. 8, Queen's Place, Wandsworth Road, and that he occupied the bottom part—I went there with Mr. Bradford—with soma difficulty we got in, and found the prisoner's wife there—I saw some burnt ashes in the grate, appearing to be paper recently burnt—in the front parlour, in a drawer of a sort of bureau, I found a number of stamps which had evidently been taken from letters and newspapers—they were 1/2 d., 1d., 1 1/2 d., and 2d. stamps, all unobliterated—I had followed the prisoner upon his delivery, and he went to his house direct out of the Wandsworth Road—properconveniences are provided at the office, and it would not be necessary for him to go home—he remained at his house from 10 to 15 minutes—he did not deliver at the house in Motley Street—he passed by the end of the other street without going in—we ultimately lost sight of him—I heard questions put to him—I did not hear him say anything about a telegram which obliged him to go to his house.

By the JURY. We lost sight of him because it was very dark and he turned sharp round in a short street, and I went to see if he had gone into Robertson Street, and I lost him.


10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-300
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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300. ANTHONY ADAMS was again indicted for feloniously stealing a certain post letter, containing a piece of wedding-cake and a piece of paper, the property of Her Majesty's Postmaster-General.

THOMAS PHILLIPS KEMPTON . I live at 45, Motley Street, and am an engine fitter—on the 11th January I saw my wife make up a letter containing a piece of wedding-cake and a slip of paper, upon which my little hoy had written something—it was addressed, "Mrs. Shaw, 14, Douglas Street, Ormaston Road, Derby"—I identify that as the envelope, and these fragments pasted together on a piece of paper as the little boy's letter—his mother guided his hand—(Reading: "Please Aunty lizzie send me some crayons")—my wife put one stamp upon it—I took it to Mr. Martin's, the post-office, 432, Wandsworth Road—at about a quarter to 5, I handed it to Mr. Martin, and on being weighed it was found to require another stamp—I bought the stamp of Mr. Martin and put it on and left the letter.

Cross-examined. It is a large envelope—the piece of wedding-cake was about 3/4 of an inch square and 21/2 inches long, and made a bulky letter—it was only fastened with gum—I read the writing at my house after it was written—this is the remains of it—I have not seen the cake since.

Re-examined. Before leaving it with Mr. Martin I saw that it was sufficiently closed—I am satisfied it was—I believe my wife put a bit of cotton round it.

ROBERT MARTIN . I am a grocer, and keep the Receiving Office, 432, Wandsworth Road—I recollect Mr. Kempton coming there on 11th Jan., at about a quarter to 5, with the letter he has spoken of, and asking me to weigh it—I weighed it, and he put another penny stamp on—I placed it in the basket of letters—the prisoner came in about five minutes after, which would be about 10 minutes to 5, to make his collection from our receiving office—I then put into his bag all the letters out of the basket into which I had just put the letter, and he took his dispatch off.

Cross-examined. I attend to my business besides keeping this branch office—I remember this case well—I do not remember any other case—other men have fetched the letters besides the prisoner—I remember he fetched them on this day—another man fetched them on the Monday.

ELIZABETH SHAW . I am the wife of Herbert Shaw, and live at 14, Douglas Street, Ormaston Road, Derby—I have not received a letter containing bride-cake from Mrs. Kempton.

Cross-examined. I live with my husband—I have no family except the little boy.

WALTER ROYAL . I am assistant overseer at the South Lambeth Sorting Office—the prisoner was an auxiliary letter carrier attached to that office—it was his duty on the 11th January to bring the 4.45 collection from the Wandsworth receiving house—he brought it—after bringing it, it was his duty to face the letters ready for the stamper to obliterate the stamps—the dispatch of the letters was fixed for 5.40 p.m.—that is the stamp of our district—"C.X" indicates the 5.40 p.m. dispatch—that letter should have gone by that bag.

Cross-examined. The prisoner brought the letters; they might pass into other hands—they would be faced by him ready for the stampers—the envelope (marked "C.X ") shows that it had been stamped—there would be three employed for the country, not more—I was not there—I am speaking of the general duty—after being stamped and sorted they would be tied up and placed in different bags, one for the town and one for the country—it was not his duty to stamp them—I had been there that afternoon, and saw the prisoner at the office at 4.30, before the dispatch was made—I did not see them put in the bag—I left the office.

HENRY KERSWELL . I am a letter carrier at the South Lambeth Office—I was on duty there on Saturday afternoon, the 11th January, and recollect the prisoner coming in in the afternoon at about 5.15—he brought his bag with him—I was engaged in another part of the office—I saw the prisoner taking part in making up the evening mail that goes at 5.40 from that office.

Cross-examined. I was at the office when the prisoner came in with the bag—he turns the letters out on a bench—five or six men would be employed sorting and stamping the letters from various districts—he helped me to put things into the bags in another part of the office, away from where these letters were sorted—I do not remember if he tied up the bag or held it up

—I do not know who put them in the bag—I had nothing to do with them—I do not know whose duty it was particularly—it may be done by any one of them—packets and letters go together, and then they go in the paper bag—I was tying the packets myself, and the prisoner was helping me with the parcels, apart from the letters on the afternoon in question.

WILLIAM SPEAR . I am head letter carrier at that office—on the 11th January, about 5.30, the prisoner was engaged in the office sorting letters, dividing country from town—he had previously come in with his collection—the country letters were to go on to the bag—I saw him engaged in that way.

Cross-examined. He was not helping to pack the parcels of the last witness away from the letters—I swear he was not sorting the parcels—he was placing them in the bag—that is not where the letters were sorted—the letters and parcels both go in one bag—there were five or six at work, no more.

Re-examined. The letters were in the same bag with the parcels—the letters must have been previously sorted—I saw the prisoner dividing the letters from the parcels, and then putting the parcels into the bag.

ROBERT BRADFORD . I am an officer in the Missing Letter Department at the General Post-office—on the 11th January the prisoner was detained by my direction and searched—12 stamps were found in the lining of his hat, and these pieces of paper in the right-hand trousers' pocket—the fragments have been pasted together since that time—"C.X" is the office stamp of the 4.45 collection South Lambeth on the 11th—I said to him, "How do you account for these being found in-your pocket?"—he said, "I don't know; I didn't know it was there"—that would be about 8.20 p.m.

Cross-examined. Nothing was said about picking up a piece of paper on the floor for tobacco—Smee was there—I did not smell the paper—it might have been said without my hearing it—they would not allow scraps of paper to remain about—I am not in the habit of visiting the sorting office—I am speaking of the regulations of the Post-office—they would not be allowed to remain about the floor.

WILLIAM SMEE . I am a constable attached to the Post-office—I took the prisoner into custody and searched him on 11th January, and found in his trousers pocket these pieces of paper—I have pasted them together since—I said, "What pieces of paper are these, Adams?"—he replied, "I don't know; I suppose they are some bits of paper I have had tobacco wrapped up in"—in the lining of his cap I found 12 postage stamps in one place, and one loose stamp with a portion of paper adhering to it like an envelope—it looked as though it had been torn from an envelope—none of the stamps were defaced.

Cross-examined. He did not say he had picked the paper off the floor—I saw no loose papers about the floor—it was about 8.30 or 8.40—I sat down for about 10 minutes opposite him before he was searched.

WALTER ROYAL (Re-examined). I have not seen covers of letters or pieces of envelopes lying about the floor—I have seen scraps of paper—packages come unfastened sometimes—I have not seen the contents come out—if brought to me opened I endorse them, "Came to hand open"—if they came out of envelopes, and we could not tell which they belonged to, I should make out a report to the postmaster that the things came out and the envelopes could not be found—the scraps of paper are sections that have been used to

tie up the bundles—if I found a bit' of an envelope with that day's stamp upon it; I should report the circumstance at once.

GUILTY. Recommended to mercy .— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-301
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment > penal servitude

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301. FREDERICK DAY (21) and WILLIAM DAY (22) , Unlawfully obtaining money from various persons, with intent to defraud.


MR. HERSELL Prosecuted; MR. FULTON Defended William Day.

ALICE BAILEY . I am in the service of Louis Goddard Irons, baker,. 111, Railton Road, Herne Hill—on 18th May last two men drove up to, our shop in a cart—they both came into the shop—William Day is one of them—I cannot say which of them spoke—they were both together—they said they had brought the bags that had been ordered by Mr. Irons, and I was to pay for them—I was alone in the shop—Mr. Irons was out—I said, "I do not know anything about it—they said, "Oh yes, it's all right, he ordered them some time ago"—I paid them—I asked them to wait till Mr. Irons came in—they said they had something else to do—this receipt was given to me (produced): "Bought of L. Hunt, May, 1878. 2,000 qtns., 2,000 half-qtns., and 2,000 lbs., ditto 2,000 half-pounds, 1l. 5s. 6d.," signed in pencil, "J. Williams"—the other prisoner (Frederick) signed it in William's presence—they left a parcel of paper bags—when Mr. Irons came in, I gave him the bags and the receipt.

Cross-examined. I had never seen either of the men before—I can identify both of them—I said so at the Hammersmith Police-court—I identified, this man as one of them—I selected him from others in the cell—I saw the other man, Frederick, last Monday week at the police-court in a room with others—at the police-court I said, "The prisoner's moustache seems a little lighter than it was then"—I was shown into a room where Frederick was—there were other men there, and I picked him out as one of the men who came to our shop—Frederick had a moustache.

LOUIS GODDARD IRONS . I am a baker in the Railton Road—the last witness is in my service—I did not order any bags of Frederick or William Day, or give them any authority to, receive any money for such bags—I examined the parcel of bags which had been left—it contained about 1,000 altogether.

WILLIAM FRITH . I live at 1, Charles Terrace, Acton, and am assistant to Mr. Samuel Simpson, grocer, 10, King William Place, Hammersmith—in May last two men drove up to the shop in a cart—the prisoner William came, in first—he said, "I have brought some bags from the other shop, and you have to pay for them"—we have another shop—I said, "I am not aware they were ordered"—he called to the one in the cart, and told him to bring the parcel—he wanted 1l. 5s. 6d.—I gave him 19s. 6d.; I had no more at the time—he left a parcel—William Day signed the bill produced: "Bought of J. Hunt, 2,000 half-pound bags, and 2,0001b. bags, and 2,000 qtns., 1l. 5s. 6d., 11. paid to F. Baker. "Directly after he left I examined the parcel, and could see they were not worth the money stated—we counted them afterwards—there were about 1,500—they were very rotten bags.

Cross-examined. I did not know the prisoners before—I had never seen them—I am quite sure the prisoner is the man with whom I had the conversation—the other man was in the trap—I did not take particular notice of him—I picked him out of the cell, and had no doubt about him—

I took notice enough for that—I took more notice of this man—I did say a could not swear whether he had whiskers or not.

Re-examined. I picked William out from other persons.

JAMES TURNER . I am a grocer, trading under the name of Simpson and Co., King William Place, Hammersmith—the last witness is in my employment—I have two shops—I never saw the prisoner until at the police-court, and never gave him or his brother authority to bring any bags.

WILLIAM HARRINGTON . I am assistant to Mr. Henry Southwood, grocer, of Ashton House, Fulham—on the 25th October last the prisoner William came to our shop—he said, "I have brought some bags, which Mr. South-wood has ordered, and you are to pay for them"—I said, "Are you sure you have seen him?"—he said, "Yes"—I took them in and paid for them—he gave me a bill already receipted: "Bought of F. Francis, 2,000 pound bags, 2,000 half-pounds, 1l. 15s. 6d. Paid, F. Francis." It was already signed—I afterwards examined them, and found them to be 1,600.

Cross-examined. There was another man in the trap—I did not take particular notice of him—I have no doubt the prisoner is one of them—I picked him out from 12 other persons.

HENRY SOUTHWOOD . I am the proprietor of the grocer's shop in which the last witness is employed—I did not order either of the Days to bring me some paper bags, and gave them no authority to receive money—the value of the bags he left is about 5s.

ARTHUR POLLETT . I assist Edward Richards, corn-dealer, 50, Church Street, West Ham—on the 17th May the prisoner came to the shop—he asked if Mr. Richards was at home—I said, "No"—he said "I have brought the bags which were ordered"—he gave me this bill, and I paid him—the bill was receipted in the name of Smith: "Bought of J. Smith, 17th December, 1878, 2,000 half-qtn. bags, and 2,000 one pound bags, 1l. 5s. 6d."

Cross-examined. I have no doubt this is the man—I had never seen him before.

EDWARD RICHARDS . I am the corn-dealer to whom the last witness is assistant—I never ordered any bags of either of these two men, and gave them no authority to receive money—I examined the parcel left—it contained about 1,000 bags.

WILLIAM KAIN (Detective M). At 3.30 on the 27th December I apprehended the prisoner at the bar in Dalston Lane, Hackney—he was driving a pony and trap—I ran after him about half a mile and stopped the vehicle—I said "I shall take you into custody for committing several frauds in the metropolis"—he said "It's my brother Fred as well as me, and I will take and drive you to some of the shops where we have committed them"—I then detained him at Dalston station and took him to Hammersmith and handed him over to Detective Blake—Frederick was not apprehended till about a fortnight ago—they were brought together at Hammersmith Police-court.

Cross-examined. I took him in custody—I told him what I should take him in custody for—he knew I was a police officer—I did not caution him—it is not my duty that I know of when a person knows who I am—I have been in the service eight years—it is the duty of a policeman to caution a man when taking him into custody if the man does not know him; but the prisoner knew me—it is not my practice to say that anything ha

says will be given in evidence against him—I cannot say that it is the practice of the police force—I cannot tell if there is any such rule—I have not seen it—when he said "It is my brother Fred," he added other words as well—I took down his words in pencil—I do not produce it—it was only to jog my memory at the police-court—I have not got it here—I have never produced it—I recollect it—I will see whether I can produce it, but I do not believe I can—yes, I can produce it (Handing a memorandum book)—I swear he said "As well"—it was two months ago when I took the prisoner into custody, and I did not know I had got it in my pocket-book—I did not produce it in the police-court—it was on the 27th December, I can recollect that—I did not state then I had taken down in writing what he said—it was not "It is my brother Fred, I will drive you to some of the shops where they committed the frauds"—he said "We" I will swear that.

GUILTY . The Prisoners further PLEADED GUILTY to having been previously convicted of felony.

FREDERICK DAY— Eighteen Months'Imprisonment.

WILLIAM DAY— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

OLD COURT.—Thursday, February 13th, 1879.

Before Mr. Recorder.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-302
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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302. JOHN LINDSAY SAVORY (56) , Unlawfully obtaining from Frederick Edwards a kitchener stove, by false pretences. Other Counts for obtaining goods from other persons, and for incurring a debt and liability under the Debtors' Act.


FREDERICK EDWARDS, JUN . I am a member of the firm of Edwards and Son, 49, Great Marlborough' Street, stove manufacturers—on 28th August last the prisoner called at our place of business and asked to see some kitcheners—we had some little conversation about them, and he gave mean order for one of the value of 15l.—he gave the name of Savory, 19, Ledbury Road, Notting Hill—I pressed very strongly that I should send up to his house to take all the particulars with respect to the fixing; he consented, but I think with a little reluctance—it appeared to me he was not quite' willing that I should send to his house—at that time Mr. Fishbourne came in, and the order was taken at his desk—it was arranged that I should send up next morning at 9.30—having ordered the kitchener, he began a conversation with reference to our neighbours, Messrs. W. and A. Gilbey—he said "I have an interest in their business and draw 900l. a year from it, and I have two sons there"—we had some further conversation with regard to the nature of Messrs. Gilbey's business; he seemed to be well acquainted with the firm, and spoke of the wonderful way in which the firm had risen; that all their business seemed to come to them, that they had not much trouble to look after it—he was dressed as a gentleman, most respectably, not as he is now—I let him have the kitchener entirely in consequence of what he said about Messrs. Gilbey, and his interest in the firm, and that he was drawing 900/. a. year—I made no inquiries in consequence of what he said—I have had dealings with three or four members of Messrs. Gilbey's firm, and have supplied them with stoves and various things—I sent Mr. Fishbourne to take particulars for fixing the stove, he brought back a report to me—the stove was delivered about a week or two later—I have never been paid for it—several applications were made for

payment after the bill was sent in—it was a cash transaction as a matter of course—I first knew on 30th December that the prisoner's representations about Messrs. Gilbey were not true, and next day a warrant was obtained.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You were in our shop about a quarter of an hour—I don't know what brought up the conversation about Messrs. Gilbey; you spoke of it—I did not say that I should not be able to put in the stove for a fortnight or so, as I had to put one in at Mr. Blyth's house, a partner in Gilbey's—we have done something for Mr. Blyth—I should not have made the slightest allusion to Messrs. Gilbey's but for you—when you mentioned their name I mentioned Mr. Blyth's, for whom we were transacting some business—I don't remember your saying that Messrs. Gilbey were very good to their relations, and allowed several of their sisters to draw 900l. a year—I came to the conclusion that you had a large amount of capital in the business, although you did not say so—I sent in my bill to you some time in October.

THOMAS FISHBOURNE . I am clerk to Messrs. Edwards—I was at the office on 28th August; when I came in the prisoner was there in conversation with Mr. Edwards; I went to the desk; I heard the prisoner say that he knew our neighbours the Gilbeys very well; that he had an interest in the business; that he had fortunately invested money in the business some time ago, and he was receiving from them a sum of money yearly, but I did not catch the amount—next day I was sent to Ledbury Road to take the measurements for the stove—it was a very poor sort of house, a kind of house that I should not think a kitchener of that sort ought to have been fixed in.

Cross-examined. I did not hear the first part of the conversation—I heard you say that you knew the Gilbeys—you certainly said that you had an interest in the business—I don't recollect your saying anything about your two sons being there.

HENRY GOLD . I am a member of the firm of W. and A. Gilbey, wine merchants, of the Pantheon, Oxford Street—the prisoner is not a member of the firm; he has no interest in it, nor ever had; he does not draw 900l. a year from it, or any sum whatever—he has not invested any money in the firm.

FRANCIS OWEN . I am assistant to Mr. James Benson, jeweller, 25, Old Bond Street—on 23rd December last the prisoner called there and saw me—he asked whether we sold small quantities of electro-plate—I told him we did—he said "I want some to complete my service; he then ordered the plate as in this list: 12 table-forks, 12 dessert-forks, 12 dessert-spoons, 6 table-spoons, 6 egg-spoons, 6 tea-spoons, 1 gravy-spoon, 1 salt-spoon, 1 mustard-spoon, 1 sugar-spoon, a pair of sugar-tongs, 1 butter-knife, and 1 mustard-pot, the whole being of the value of 16l. 3s. 6d.—he said, "If you will send them up to-morrow I will give your man a cheque; my name is J. L. Savory, and you will find my name in the Court Guide"—the goods were sent on Christmas Eve, rather late in the evening—the man I sent with them did not bring back any cheque or money—about ten days afterwards, in consequence of something I heard, I went to the address he had given, and there saw Mrs. Savory—some conversation passed between us, in consequence of which I went to Mr. Richardson's, a pawnbroker's in Upper George Street, where I saw the greater part of the goods, with the exception of the smaller things, the salt-spoon, mustard-spoon, sugar-tongs, butter-knife, and

mustard-pot—I saw all the rest there, and Mrs. Savory restored the odd goods I have just mentioned—the things I saw at Mr. Richardson's had never been used at all; they were wrapped in the same paper we had sent them in—we have never been paid for them.

JAMES RICHARD SHRUBB . I am assistant to Thomas Richardson and Son, pawnbrokers, of 11, 12, 13, 14, and 16, Upper George Street, Bryanston Square—on Friday, 27th December, the prisoner pawned the plated articles, which Mr. Owen afterwards saw, for 5l. 10s., in the name of J. S. Savory, 19, Ledbury Road—I have the goods here—they are, as nearly as possible, in the same state as when they were pawned—I wrapped them up in this brown paper; they were in the tissue paper when pawned—I think they had not been used; they looked new to me.

JAMES O'DEA (Police Sergeant C). On 31st December I apprehended the prisoner on a warrant at his house, 19, Ledbury Road, Bayswater—I had some difficulty in getting into the house—we waited out there from 9 p.m. till 2 next morning, and had to get up a ladder 12 houses off and walk along the balconies—I got a policeman to knock at the door and tell them there was a man in the area, and when Mrs. Savory came to the window to see what it was, a policeman who was on the balcony got through the window before she could close it again—when we got into the house the prisoner was there dressed—I told him the charge—he said nothing—we had posted constables round, so that he could not get out—we searched the house, and found the bill relating to the stove, some pawn tickets, and letters of application for payment.

Prisoner's Defence. I never anticipated cheating Mr. Edwards the least in the world. As to the other things, it was to make up a set of things that I had at home, but being very ill and pressed I pledged them. I was not at home when the things were taken in. When I went to Mr. Edwards I had 27l. in my pocket, and if he had applied for the money he would have got it, or a portion of it, at any rate; but Mrs. Savory's father fell ill, and died on 16th December, and I paid every shilling I could out of my pocket to meet the expenses.


10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-303
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

303. JOHN LINDSAY SAVORY was again indicted for unlawfully obtaining by false pretences a variety of articles from different persons.

MR. J. P. GRAIN Prosecuted.

CATHERINE BISHOP . I am assistant to Mr. John Augustus Nicolay, a furrier, of 82, Oxford Street—on 10th December last the prisoner came and asked for a sealskin paletot for a lady—I showed him several, and he chose one of the value of 30 guineas—he also wished to see some sable muffs—I showed him some, and he selected one of the value of 5 guineas—I asked when we should send them—he said after the next two or three hours he should be at home, and he would pay for them—he gave the name of Savory, 19, Ledbury Road, Bayswater—I made out an invoice, taking off a discount of 5 per cent, for cash—the goods were sent by a porter, but were never paid for—I have since seen them produced by the pawnbroker.

ARTHUR SMITH . I am porter to Messrs. Nicolay—on 10th December I received from Miss Bishop two boxes, with directions to take them to 19, Ledbury Road—I took a bill with me—I got there about 7.30 p.m.—I saw a female at the door; she went upstairs—in consequence of what she said I gave her the boxes.

JAMES RICHARD SHRUBB . I am assistant to Mr. Richardson, of Upper George Street—I produce a sealskin paletot pledged on 8th December by the prisoner for 14l. in the name of L. Savory, 19, Ledbury Road; also a sable muff pledged by him on 27th December for 2l., both new—I had only been there about 10 months—I could not say exactly how many times I had seen him; eight or ten times, I dare say.

WILLIAM MORRIS . I am assistant to Messrs. Hitchcock, Williams, and Co., of St. Paul's Churchyard—on 6th August the prisoner came and asked for some sheeting and other goods; he selected 11 pairs of sheets, damasks, and a variety of articles, to the value of 22l. 17s. 8d.—he gave his name and address, 19, Ledbury Road, Bayswater—he said he was in a great hurry, and he would send a cheque on for the goods—I made inquiry, and sent the goods two or three days afterwards by the Parcels Delivery Company—we never got the money—we made numerous applications.

Prisoner's Defence. I can only say I had expectations of completing a large mortgage of 11,000l. or 12,000l., and should have been able to pay all had not the mortgage gone off.

MR. GRAIN stated that there were numerous other cases against the prisoner, and that he was mixed up with the notorious turf frauds.

GUILTY .— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-304
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

Related Material

304. ROBERT WATSON (42) , Conspiring with others to defraud James Andrews, George Smith, and others.

MR. CROOME Prosecuted; and MESSRS. M. WILLIAMS and HORACE AVORY Defended.

In this case, which was that of a mock auction, the RECORDER ruled that the prisoner was not criminated by making false bids, and that on the authority of The Queen v. Bryan there was no case.

MR. CROOME, on behalf of the Prosecution, concurred, and offered no evidence.


10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-305
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

Related Material

305. WILLIAM BURGHLEY (53) , Feloniously wounding William Timms, with intent to do him grievous bodily harm.

MR. GRAIN Prosecuted; and MR. RAVEN Defended.

WILLIAM TIMMS . I am barman to Mr. Milburne, at the Albert public-house, Victoria Street, Westminster—on Saturday evening, the 4th of January, about 5 o'clock, the prisoner was standing in front of the bar—after he had been served he was using obscene language—he was talking to a companion—at the request of my employer I went to him and asked him several times to give over using bad language, and instead of doing so he persisted in using worse—after he had continued for some five or ten minutes my employer requested me to put him out—I got over to do so—I merely took him by the shoulder with one hand and asked him to leave the house, and directly I did so he struck me three blows with a loaded stick—it made two wounds on my head—I bled very much—I put him outside the house and held him till a policeman came and I gave him in custody—I did not strike him or use any unnecessary violence—he was not drunk—that is the stick (produced)—he held it about half-way down and struck me with the loaded end—I had to go to the Westminster Hospital as an out-patient, and my wounds were dressed there several times—they are now quite well—he was leaning his elbow on the counter at the time.

Cross-examined. I have seen him walk without a stick since—he limps a little on one foot—I said before the Magistrates, "I am aware now that he is a cripple"—I was not under the impression that he had been drinking—I am not aware that anything had occurred to put him out of temper—I should think he was quite sober—he was not excited—he simply came into the house and used bad language, and I was told to put him out—I took him by the shoulder and was proceeding to walk him out—he is about the same weight as I am—he had this stick in his hand, and hit me with it across the head three times—I put him out and held him there—when the surgeon examined me I had two wounds on the top of the head.

By the COURT. There had been a squabble about breaking a bracket some minutes before.

WALTER ERNEST MILBURNE . I am proprietor of the Albert public-house—the prisoner was in the bar on this Saturday evening, leaning against the gas-bracket—he had been using foul language—I requested him I believe more than once to leave the house—I gave the barman instructions to put him out, and saw him proceed to do so—he took him by the shoulder and tried to take him out, and the prisoner struck him on the head three blows with the thick end of this loaded stick—a customer took the stick from him—he cried out, "Give me my stick," and tried to get it back, but the customer held it till it was given to the police-constable—I saw the barman bleeding—the prisoner was sober, but had had a little drink.

Cross-examined. I serve in the bar myself and last witness—three altogether serve there—the prisoner I believe had some ale—I did not serve him—he had had a little drink, but knew what he was about.

HORACE ELLIOTT . I am house-surgeon at the Westminster Hospital—the prosecutor was brought there about 7.30 on Saturday evening, 4th January—I found two lacerated wounds on the top of his head, the front one an inch in length, going down to the bone—the other two inches in length, from side to side—I dressed them twice or thrice—the injuries might be caused by the stick produced—he went on well.

Cross-examined. There were two wounds—it would have been impossible for the two wounds to have been caused by one blow with the knobs on the stick—they were some distance apart—they were not dangerous—they were caused by the smooth part of the stick—I am not aware the prisoner had been in the infirmary—he was no patient of mine.

WILLIAM ISLAY (Policeman B 81). I saw the prosecutor outside the public-house, who was bleeding profusely from the wounds in the head, holding the prisoner—he told me the prisoner had hit him with a stick, and some one in the crowd handed me the stick produced—it is loaded with lead—I took the prisoner to the station—he limped a little—he said a horse had fallen on his leg some time before—he was not intoxicated, but had had a glass or two—I charged him at the station, and he said he had never been in a police-court before.

Cross-examined. I did not know he was in an infirmary some three weeks before—I knew he had a horse fall upon him, one of his companions told me—I did not go to ask at the infirmary—he had been out three weeks.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I went to the Albert with one of my mates—I had been laid up, a horse fell on me and crippled me—I called for a half-quartern of rum and hot water, and gave my mate a

pot of porter—I leant my arm then against a bracket on the counter—I moved the bracket by leaning against it—I was putting it back in its place when the barman said I had broken it—I said I did not, and he said it was a b——lie, I had broken it—then I said to my mate, 'He has accused me of breaking the bracket'—I cannot exactly say what passed between me and my mate—his master ordered him to put me out of the house—he immediately jumped over the bar and pushed me with violence by the throat against the door—I said, 'Don't chuck me out, I have been laid up a week, I am a cripple,' and I made an attempt then to go to my rum and water—he seized me again by my throat—I never intended to hit him on the head I believe I did so in the struggle—he held me then till a policeman came—as for the stick, it belonged to my father—he had it in case of his being garotted."

GUILTY of Unlawfully Wounding .— Four Months' Imprisonment.

NEW COURT.—Thursday, February 13th, 1879.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-306
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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306. THOMAS HERBERT (29) was indicted for publishing certain filthy and obscene instruments and books; also for conspiring with T. Edwards to commit the like offence.

MR. BESLEY Prosecuted; and MR. FULTON Defended. (He received a good character.) — Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

NEW COURT.—Monday, February 17th, 1879.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

307. In the case of JULIUS HERTSBERG , who PLEADED GUILTY last Session to certain counts of the indictment, MR. HORACE AVORY, for the Prosecution, offered no evidence on the other counts, and a verdict of NOT GUILTY was taken. He received a good character. He was sentenced to Six Months' Imprisonment on the counts to which he PLEADED GUILTY, to commence from that date.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-308
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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308. JOSIAH WILLIAM CHUBB (28) , for unlawfully assaulting Elizabeth Ada Prior, of the age of 11 years and 10 months, with intent, &c., and in a second count with indecent assault.

MR. BESLEY Prosecuted; and MR. M. WILLIAMS Defended.

GUILTY on the Second Count .— Judgment Respited.

OLD COURT.—Tuesday, February 18th, 1879.

Before Mr. Justice Hawkins.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-309
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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309. WILLIAM HANCOCK (27) was indicted for, and charged on the Coroner's Inquisition, with feloniously killing and slaying Elizabeth Glover.

MR. KEITH FRITH Prosecuted; MR. M. WILLIAMS Defended.

EDWARD GEORGE FOSBURY . I am waiter at the Black Swan Tavern, Bow Road—on the night of the 21st January I saw the prisoner and a woman outside that house at about half-past 11—I did not hear the woman say anything—they were tumbling about—I heard neither of them speak—I said to the man, "Why don't you let the woman alone?"—he said, "It's my wife, and I want to get her home, she is drunk"—she said, "I am not"—he then took hold of" her round the waist and threw her down, and fell

across her—she fell on her face—her clothes were over her head, hut how they came over I cannot say—a woman pushed through the crowd and said to the man, "You scoundrel, what do you let the woman be exposed like that for?"—I should say it was about a quarter of a minute before the woman pushed through the crowd—there were about ten or a dozen people there then—nobody interfered before then, because he said it was his wife—the prisoner then got up as if to strike the woman who interfered, but he missed the blow and fell down in the gutter—the woman then cried out "Police!" and "Murder!" and the police came up and picked up the deceased—the prisoner then took hold of her and said, "This is my wife," and ran with her round the corner—they then fell together on the pavement—I subsequently saw them taken to the station—he ran with her, carrying her up in his arms—I saw the woman in the gutter the last time they fell together on the pavement.

Cross-examined. I said before the Magistrates, "The man fell across the woman—directly she fell he lost his balance;" that they were drunk, and that his second fall seemed to be caused by his drunken state—also that the woman seemed staggering, and spoke as if she were drunk—I said before the coroner, "A man and a woman came into the house—the deceased is the woman to whom I refer—both were drunk—I believe the landlady refused to serve them—she (the landlady) called me from the billiard-room to eject them, but when I came down they were both in the street."

By the COURT. He took hold of her round the waist and threw her down—I saw him do that the first time, and then he fell across her in the gutter—I say he threw her down—I cannot say if he did it on purpose—he had his arm round her waist and threw her down—I only saw him strike her in the face with his open hand—that was just before he threw her—it was one blow, about a minute before he threw her down—I heard no words to give rise to the blow—the blow was in the face with the open hand—I did not see any effect produced by it—she said nothing—I did not hear any words pass—they were scrambling about.

HARRIET PALMER . I am the wife of John Palmer, of Summer Street—I was in the Bow Road, near the Black Swan window, on the night of the 21st January—I don't know the time—it was rather late—the lamps were put out—I saw the prisoner and a woman talking by the window—his back was towards me, and her back stood against the window—he stood in front of her and was asking her if she would have some baked potatoes—he asked her two or three times—she said "No, she was not hungry, but she would have some brandy"—a customer came up, and I was serving them afterwards—a little while after I heard some one cry "Police! Murder!" and when I had served my customer I ran to the corner to look, and I saw it was the same people in the road—I saw her clothes a little way up—she was on the ground a little way from the gutter—the man was kneeling over by her side or at the head—I could not see very well, it was dark—I did not go up close to them—I called out "You brute"—he appeared to be on his knees—her clothes were a little way up above her stockings—he never answered me—he appeared to be drunk—I was called away then to serve my customers—I afterwards saw them—I do not know whether she was walking along or being led or carried round—I could not see distinctly, because there were two or three customers round me. I did not see the man do anything to her after that—I do not remember anything

else, I had my business to attend to—the man was staggering, and seemed too drunk to stand.

HENRY YOUNG . I am a ticket-collector, and live at 8, Orchard Terrace, Bow—on the night of the 21st I was in the Bow Road, outside the Black Swan—I saw the prisoner there—we had worked together on the same line—he had got hold of a woman round the waist behind her, trying to pull her out from the public-house—she had hold of the handle inside, holding to it—as soon as she left go they fell—she fell sideways—I assisted her up—he fell on her—she kept saying, "Let me be, I am not drunk"—after I had assisted her up she called "Police!" and "Murder!"—he caught her round the waist again from behind to carry her away—they went a few yards and fell down again into the road—the prisoner held on her then and exposed her—he pulled her clothes up with one hand—they were both on the ground together, he on his side lying beside her and she lying on her side—he pulled her clothes about as high up as the waist, and he smacked her with his open hand—he said, "Now, won't you come home?"—a man then helped her up—the prisoner had got hold of her round the arm, and they got back again in front of the Black Swan, where they were at first; and there a policeman came up, and wanted to know what all the bother was about—I do not know what the prisoner said to that—I heard the policeman say, "What are you going to do with the woman?" and he. said he was going to take her home—the policeman said, "Take her home, then;" and the prisoner caught hold of her and attempted to carry her away again—after going five or six yards they fell down again, he on top of her, the woman under—her clothes were up—I could see the man was drunk—he was carrying her round the waist from behind—he did so twice—the policeman saw him do that the last time—they came up and saw the man drunk trying to carry the woman; they looked on without interfering—somebody said, "Aren't you policemen going to interfere, as that woman doesn't belong to the man?" and that he had been exposing her round the corner—the police then went directly and got the man off the woman, and got the woman up, and took them to the station.

By the COURT. The woman was on the ground about a minute or two before the policeman picked her up—we were standing at the corner, and the prisoner carried her about five yards—the policeman was looking on till the party asked him to interfere.

Cross-examined. I think I should know the policeman again if I saw him—when I first saw the man he was trying to pull the woman out of the Black Swan—she was holding the door, and she let go and they both fell—with regard to the second fall, I said before the Magistrates, "He picked her up in his arms and carried her a few yards; he slipped off the kerb and fell on her"—I also said, "In the second fall I think her knee might have come against the kerb"—the prisoner had worked on the North London Railway—I cannot say how long—I had been employed there about 14 or 15 years—I had known him there ever since he had been on—it might be 11 or 12 years—he was a fireman—I know he was in a collision—I do not know that he had to become a total abstainer in consequence—for the last twelve years I had known him he was very quiet and steady.

Re-examined. I was about 3 or 4 yards away when he fell the second time—there was not a crowd round me then; there might have been six or seven altogether looking on.

HARDING MORGAN (Policeman K 193). In consequence of hearing screams of "Police!" and "Murder!" on the night of the 21st January I went to the Black Swan, in the Bow Road, and saw a man and woman there—the prisoner is the man—I did not know him to be a constable—I saw a woman lying on the footway—he was not in uniform—I asked the woman what was the matter—the man was standing at her feet—she said "This man has knocked me down"—I said, "What for?"—she said, "I don't know"—I picked her up with the assistance of Constable Saunders and put her on her feet—the man next took her round the body and went round the corner of the the Black Swan, High Street, Bow, and threw her on the pavement—assistance of the other constable I lifted him off the woman—when he threw her he had her on his left, and threw himself round with her—whether he fell accidentally upon her or intentionally I cannot say—when we were taking him off the woman he had his left arm round her neck—he clung to her rather tightly by the neck—when we got her up I asked the woman if that was her husband—she said "No, he is nothing to do with me—I could not say she was drunk, she was very much excited—I noticed he was drunk when I first got there, about half—past 11—I took the woman to the station and Saunders brought the prisoner—she made a charge in the name of Elizabeth Glover—after the medical man had seen her I took her to the London Hospital.

Cross-examined. I did not know the woman before—she told me in answer to my question, that the man had knocked her down—the man was drunk—he carried her 4 or 5 yards—we did not stand looking on—we came up at once when we heard screams of "Murder!"—I was in uniform—I did not stand by—I picked her up and put her on her feet—the second time I picked her up—I picked her up the first time, and did no more until she was down on the ground the second time—I saw the man was drunk and I knew the woman complained that he had knocked her down—he took her up instantly and went round the corner with her—there was a crowd round—he threw her—I did not say before the Magistrates, "I cannot say if he threw her accidentally"—I never said that he threw her—I did say, "After that he fell on her"—I did not say, to the best of my recollection, "I cannot say if he threw her accidentally"—I did say, "He did not let her fall"—I interfered the moment I came up—his seizing her and taking her round the corner was after I came up—I did not interfere because I thought they were man and wife—that was my reason—there was a crowd round—I had no chance of getting to him till he got round, and then I thought they were man and wife, until he threw her the second time.

ALFRED SAUNDERS (policeman K 190). I was on the night of the 21st January in the Bow Road—on hearing cries of "Police" and "Murder" I went up and found a woman lying on the footway—I assisted the other constable to pick her up—he was there when I went up—the prisoner was with the woman—I did not know him before—he was standing by her feet—after we picked up the deceased and stood her on her feet the prisoner caught hold of her, bringing her breast to his, and carried her down the road and threw her down on the pavement—she was face to him—he caught hold of the lower part of her body and raised her to a level with his shoulder and earned her into Bow Road, and then threw her down upon the pavement—she would be on his left arm or left shoulder—he held round towards the left, and threw her down at the same time on to the footway and partly into

the roadway—I saw that—she fell on her back—he afterwards fell on her—I do not know whether it was wilful or accidental—I then assisted the other constable to drag him off—there was some difficulty in doing so, he clung to her very tight—I then took him to the station, and the woman, in the name of Elizabeth Glover, charged him there—I do not know that be made any reply, I went outside at the time—he was drunk—the woman was also drunk.

Cross-examined. She was drunk—he was very drunk.

By the COURT. I was standing some 10 yards from them when he threw her down—at the time he picked her up as described I was not one yard away—the crowd did not interfere between me and him—there would be not the slightest difficulty in taking hold of him—I did not do so, because I did not know but that Morgan, being there first, knew the nature of the charge, or that they were man and wife—I thought he was going to carry her home—both were very drunk—I was within a yard.

GEORGE YOUNG (Police-Inspector K). On Saturday, 25th January, I went to the hospital, and saw a woman there named Elizabeth Glover—she made a statement in the presence of the doctor and myself—the prisoner was not present—the Magistrate subsequently attended, when we had the prisoner present—she was examined by the Magistrate on the same day at the hospital—the prisoner was present all the time—she was sworn and her deposition taken in his presence—he had a full opportunity of asking questions—the Magistrate asked him if he wished to ask her any questions, and he said all he would ask her was, "Do you know," or "Are you sure that I am the man who assaulted you?"—the whole of her statement was reduced to writing—she made a mark in my presence—this is the deposition—I have not seen her since she died, the doctor has—the statement was all read over to her in the presence of the prisoner before she put her mark to it. (Read: "Deponent, Elizabeth Glover, upon her oath, says: 'I am now a patient in the London Hospital. Between 10 and 11 last Tuesday night, in the Bow Road, a man came out of a ham shop. Another man came out after him. The first shoved me. I said, 'Do not shove me.' He came and shoved me again. I said, 'I will lock you up.' He struck me on the nose and I fell. I got up. He took me by the arms and dragged me about; he hurt me. He then put my clothes over my face. He kicked me across the thigh above the knee with all his force. Then two police came. I called 'Police!' 'Murder!' The police did not take him at first; they then took him. My leg was cut where he hit me. I never saw the man before. I am sure the man who was taken to the station was the man who struck and kicked me. The prisoner is very like the man who did it. The prisoner is the man who did it. I swear the prisoner is the man.'"

EDWARD VARCHALL . I am surgeon at the London Hospital—I saw a woman named Elizabeth Glover, who was admitted on the 11th January—she is now dead—she was brought in about 12 o'clock—she was suffering from a contused wound just above the right knee-joint, and had a bruise on her back, a bruise on her right hip, and two bruises on her right leg below the knee—her nose had also been bleeding—the bruises were recent—within a day—changes in colour had not taken place—the wound on the knee might have been occasioned by a blunt instrument, or a kick, or by a fall on a kerbstone—I believe considerable violence must have been used, the wound was deep—I think the position of the wound pointed more to a kick than

a fall—it was not at that part of the knee which would first strike the ground if she fell—the position of the wound was in front above the knee—she had been drinking, but was able to answer questions intelligibly—she was under my charge until the Sunday following, and then she died—we made a post-mortem examination—the cause of death was exhaustion, produced by suppuration around the knee-joint, and a constitution already broken down and debilitated by disease—without the injury to the knee she might have lived some time—the wound was the cause of the suppuration—but for that she might have lived for years, certainly had she taken care of herself—in the opinion of one of our surgeons 20 years, in my opinion I should not care to say more than 5 or 6—I form that opinion upon my medical knowledge and experience.

Cross-examined. I will not say the injury in the knee-joint was not caused by a fall on the kerb—the body was in a very diseased state—I examined the head—there was syphilitic disease of the bones, the rest healthy—syphilitic disease of the liver—syphilitic disease of the spleen and granular kidneys—most of the organs were diseased—the actual working parts of the organs were not so excessively diseased—there was more deposition of structure of tissue than destruction of tissue—a wound or a blow would be much more serious to a person so diseased—with people having granular kidneys the slightest wound is very severe, and often followed by rapid and fatal results—we never make a practice of cutting such people—in a healthy subject the wound would not cause death—the wound hastened death.

POLICE-SERGEANT HOWLETT. I am a Sergeant of the Criminal Investigation Department, attached to the K Division—I have known the prisoner personally 15 years—I lived next door to him—I never knew a more inoffensive man in my life—when he came to me I made his application out to join the police—I never saw him the worse for drink in my life—I have seen him almost daily for the last 15 years—I know he was a teetotaller for a time when he had an accident on the line—I knew he had an accident, and had some compensation.

Other witnesses deposed to the Prisoner's good character.

GUILTY . The JURY found that the prisoner did not kick the deceased, and that he did not throw her down intending to do her grievous bodily harm.— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-310
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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310. GEORGE SOPER (26) , Feloniously setting fire to the straw in a stable belonging to John Francis Campbell, under such circumstances as if the stable had been set fire to he would have committed felony.

MR. POLAND and MR. STRAIGHT Prosecuted; MR. M. WILLIAMS Defended.

EDMUND BLAKE (Policeman T 368). I prepared this model of the premises of Niddry Lodge, Campden Hill—it is an accurate model of the premises, prepared on a scale of 5 feet to the inch; the distance from the little side gate leading to the front door of the house is 56 feet—there is a party wall between the front garden and the stable, and a small gate in the wall—the distance from the front door to that gate is 48 feet; from the stable-yard gates to the stable door is 52 feet; the gates are 7 feet in height and the wall 9 feet 6 inches—I have stood in Upper Holland Street on the opposite side of the way to the house and I could not see the little window over the stable door.

WILLIAM SCOTT . I am butler to Mr. John Francis Campbell, of Niddry

Lodge—on Thursday, 12th December, about half-past 4 or 20 minutes to 5, the prisoner rang at the front-door bell, and told me there was a fire in the stable yard; I said "It is impossible, there is no one there"—he said "You had better come and see"—I went as quickly as possible with him through this little gate; the stable door was locked, and the key in the lock outside; it was not locked—Mr. Campbell does not keep any horses—it is a two-stall, and both stalls were bedded down for friend's horses, and there were two old cane chairs there—I did not notice any smoke before I opened the door—when I did open it there was a quantity of smoke, and the whole straw was in a blaze in both stalls; the prisoner said "Shall I run for the engine?"—I said "Certainly, as quick as you possibly can," and he went off that instant as fast as he could run—the page boy Cooper came and joined me, and I set him to pump water, and shouted for assistance—I used pails of water, and got two of the maids to assist me, and we ultimately put out the fire before the engine came—the straw in both of the stalls was burnt—one of the chairs was scorched a little and the other had just begun to take fire—I should say the engine came in less than a quarter of an hour from the time of the alarm—the prisoner came back with it—after a time I asked the prisoner his name and address—he said "My name is Budge"—Ashby the gardener, who was then present, said "No, Soper, when you worked for my father; four years ago your name was Soper"—he said "No, Budge," but Ashby said Soper was the name—I gave him 5s., and told him to come back for a further reward—none of the family were at home, only myself, the page, and four maid servants—the gates leading into the stable yard are kept locked, and they were locked that day—there is no access from the stable to the rear; the only access is by coming into the front court and going through that little gate—I did not observe any other people in the yard—on Monday, 16th December, the prisoner called and said that he had been advised to come, as I had asked him to come, for a further reward—I asked him if he were really at work at Kensington Palace Gardens—he said "No, I have left"—he had told me on the Thursday that he was at work there; he did not say why he had left; he said he was an amateur fireman—I then took him to Mr. Campbell, and he asked what he was doing—he said that he had got an appointment that morning as engine keeper to the Metropolitan Fire Brigade—Mr. Campbell asked him to write his name and address and to call in a week; he then wrote on this piece of paper "George Williams, 10, Stanford Road, Kensington"—Mr. Campbell gave me instructions, in consequence of which I went to the station and saw the inspector—I think the fire must have been burning a very short time before I went into the stable from the fact of the two chairs, which were in the centre of the burning straw, being so little burnt.

Cross-examined. When I opened the stable door there was a large body of smoke—four or five panes in the window were broken—when I gave the prisoner the 5s. I thanked him very much, and told him I thought he had saved us from a very serious fire—I said "I will give you 5s., and I am quite sure Mr. Campbell will give you more if you will call"—he did not ask for any reward—the outside of the stable was not all burnt or charred—I said when the alarm was given that being a dull day I supposed that some one had been smoking, and that the light from a pipe had set fire to the straw—I did not see the gardener on the premises—the grounds are large—a jobbing gardener does the work and brings his men with him—I heard

the page say that he thought he had smelt fire before—I have no doubt that I said before the Magistrate that some smoke came out of the window—I should think it did.

Re-examined. When I first got into the stable-yard with the prisoner there were no external appearances of a fire inside—the grounds are at the rear of the stable and the house—there is no communication between the grounds and the stable.

FREDERICK JAMES COOPER . I am employed as page to Mr. Campbell—I was at home on 12th Dec. when the alarm of fire was given—I had been in at that stable about 20 minutes previously to put a ladder back—I was not smoking there, when I came out I closed the door behind me, and all was safe—I went back into the house; before I got in I smelt a slight sooty smell, and then saw a good deal of smoke coming from Mr. Bird's green-house next door—when the alarm was given I went and helped Scott to put the fire out—I should think it was about 20 minutes from the time I shut the stable-door to the time I heard a ring at the bell.

Cross-examined. The stable-doors are not kept locked—I have not had reason to believe that people had been in there, only in the yard—I have seen messes in the stable-yard where people have got over.

Re-examined. I have noticed that early in the morning—there is nothing to prevent a person coming in through this little gate into the yard.

JOHN ASHBY . I am a gardener, and live at 42, Grove Place, Brompton Road—I have been in charge of the garden belonging to Niddry Lodge—I employ other men under me—I was at work there Thursday, 12th December—Thomas Cripps had been working for me that day at Mr. Bird's, next door to Mr. Campbell—I was at work at Mr. Campbell's—I left work at about a quarter to 4, and returned about 5 o'clock and saw the engine standing outside—the fire was quite out then—I went into the butler's pantry and there saw the prisoner, who I had known by the name of Soper—he was employed about four years ago in that name by my father at Niddry Lodge—he was at work there on and off for a fortnight or three weeks—I spoke to him in the pantry and said to him, "How are you, Mr. Soper?"—he said "Quite well, thank you"—I asked him if he lived in Orchard Street still—he said no he did not—I did not hear the name of Bridge mentioned at all.

THOMAS CRIPPS . I live at 5, Rutland Street, Brompton—I am employed by Ashby to do gardening work—on Thursday, 12th December, I was at work at Mr. Bird's, next door to Mr. Campbell—I was at work at the furnaces in the conservatory, that is near to the chimneys—I was just blocking up the fire for the evening, that was about 10 minutes or a quarter past four—I was putting on coal and coke—the furnaces ran alongside here about 6 yards, not quite underneath the chimneys—there was nothing unusual that I noticed that day—we have never had any accident—I have not been there more than three-quarters of an hour—I did not notice any smell of fire that day—I afterwards looked at the place both on Mr. Campbell's side and on Mr. Bird's side, and there was nothing whatever about the furnaces to cause this fire in the stable.

GEORGE NAYLOR . I am a fireman to the Metropolitan Fire Brigade stationed at King Street, Kensington—prior to 12th Dec. the prisoner had been in the habit of coming to my watch-room at the station in King Street and talking to me and the other men—he was not an engine-keeper in the employ of the brigade, not to my knowledge, at that time—the person having

charge of the engines would have to wear a uniform—this hook produced is kept by me and all the men at the station—the entry with regard to this fire was made by myself—the alarm was given at 4.43, by the prisoner—he had been at the fire-station that afternoon a very short time before that—it was after 4 when he left the station—he had been talking to me all the afternoon—when he came in and gave the alarm I sent the engine on at once in charge of John Bird—I did not go with it—it came back at 5.24—the prisoner afterwards came to the station and applied to Trimming for the amount for the call money, which was 1s.—the prisoner had come to the station that afternoon something after 2 o'clock, and was talking to me the whole afternoon about different things, not in reference to fires.

Cross-examined. He often came to the station—he did not go out with the engines, to my knowledge—I do not know how many engine-keepers there are in the brigade—an engine-keeper would not wear uniform, an engineer would.

DONALD ALFRED TRIMMING . I am an engineer of the Metropolitan Fire Brigade stationed at the King Street station—on Thursday, 12th December, at 5.24, when the engine returned, the prisoner came with it and applied to me for the 1s. for giving the alarm—I gave it him, and he gave me this receipt, signed "George Budge, 10, Stanford Road, Kensington"—I have been 16 years in the fire brigade, and have seen many fires—I examined the stable at Niddry Lodge—there was nothing on Mr. Bird's premises showing that the fire had been caused from there, it had originated in the stable itself, in the right-hand stall, and had travelled to the next stall under the manger through an opening in the partition between the two stalls—I should not think the fire had lasted more than five minutes—the straw was laid loose as usual—it is a very light material, and would take but very little time to burn up—it was not all burned, about half a truss I should say—I don't think there would have been much smoke observable outside, considering the state of the weather at the time—I don't think it would have been observed in the street—it was very damp weather, rather foggy and dark—I endeavoured to see the window of the stable from the roadway, but was not able to do so.

Cross-examined. Smoke ascends in damp weather; if there was a great quantity some of it would come out at a broken window—if three or four panes were broken I should expect much to come out.

ELIZABETH FORTMAN . I am housekeeper to Mr. Allenson, 10, Stanford Road, Kensington—I do not know the prisoner; he did not live there on 12th December.

Cross-examined. I have been there three years—there are some smaller houses close by.

By the COURT. I do not know Stanford Row, and there is no person named Williams in Stanford Road to my knowledge—I never heard of George Williams—I know no one named Budge.

LOTT BEECHAM (Policeman B 93). I live at 16, Green Street, Marlborough Road, Chelsea—on 12th December the prisoner and his wife and two children lodged in my house—they had been there from 9th May; they came first in the name of Sobey, but a fortnight afterwards he said it was. Soper—I was his landlord—I did not know him as Williams or Budge.

Cross-examined. I believe his mother married a man named Budge, a market gardener—my wife saw a card of one of his children who had died,

and she saw the name, and the prisoner's wife said "Oh yes, our name is properly Soper, but we give the name of Sobey."

THOMAS BUDGE . I live at 14, Napper Road, and am the prisoner's step-father—I have known him go by the name of Budge—he lived with me up to the time of his being married, which was about four years, but not since—he goes by the name of Budge still in the Odd Fellows' books—I should write to him as Budge if I wrote a letter to him, but Soper is his real name—I married his mother, and her children all took my name—I know no one called George Williams—I know 10, Stanford Row, Kensington; I know that there is such a number, but that is all.

JAMES MORRIS . I am fireman at the Brompton Station, Trafalgar Square, Chelsea—that is a little over a quarter of a mile from Mr. Perk's, the corn-chandler's, Gloucester Road—on 1st December, 1878, I was on duty, and James W. Wickenden was in charge of the station at 6.28 when the prisoner came in and gave a call—what he said had no relation to the present inquiry.

MR. WILLIAMS objected to this evidence, firstly, because it introduced that which could be made the subject of another indictment; and, secondly, because it was altogether irrelevant to the issue which the Jury was now trying.

MR. STRAIGHT contended that he was entitled to give the evidence as showing a motive on the part of the prisoner—viz., the claiming a reward, and therefore it was admissible to show that the fire in question was not accidental, but intentional.

MR. POLAND supported this argument, and cited the cases of Beg. v. Anthony, Central Criminal Court Sessions Paper, vol. 75, p. 110; Reg. v. Regan, 4, Cox's Criminal Cases, p. 335; Reg. v. Gray; Reg. v. Bond, Central Criminal Court Sessions Papers; Reg. v. Francis, vol. 2, Crown Cases Reserved; and Reg. v. Dossett, 2, Carrington and Kirwan, p. 306. MR. JUSTICE HAWKINS deemed it advisable that this question, which had frequently arisen, should be discussed and settled by the Court of Criminal Appeal. At present the evidence would be admitted, and, if necessary, the point would be reserved.) He called me to a house on fire in Gloucester Road, South Kensington, but did not state the number—I called Wickenden down.

JAMES WILLIAM WICKENDEN . On December 1 I was in charge of Brompton fire-station—the prisoner came there at 6.28, and I said "What is the fire?"—he said "I saw the fire coming out of the ground-floor window, it is a large house, I don't know what it is"—I ordered the manual fire-engine, and went with the prisoner to Mr. Perk's warehouse, 117, Gloucester Road—there was a fire there, and I helped to extinguish it, and then returned to the station with the prisoner—I then asked him if he could write, and gave him this paper—"The undersigned has received one shilling for calling attention to a fire, &c. Signed, George Budge, 14, Napper Road, Kensington."

GEORGE SEYMOUR (Detective Sergeant T). On 2nd December, about 10 p.m., I saw the prisoner in High Street, Kensington, and said "George, you will be detained in reference to the fire at Niddry Lodge, Campden Kill, till I telegraph to Inspector Jones"—he said "I know nothing about it; I have seen Mr. Scott; he gave me 5s., and told me to call again. I went to see if there was any further reward"—he was charged at the station, and said "I am innocent"—I found on him an oil lamp, a pair of socks, a bunch of keys, two stamps, some matches, and a pocket-book.

WILLIAM SCOTT (Re-examined). I heard the bell ring at 4.30—I fix the time from the time he booked the engine—I answered the bell

immediately, because it rang violently—I was at the bottom of the stairs, and I merely mounted the steps—it would be within a minute—I then went over to the stable with him instantly.


10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-311
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

Related Material

311. GEORGE SOPER was again indicted for feloniously setting fire to the warehouse of Tom William Perks, with intent to injure him, upon which Mr. Straight offered no evidence.



Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-312
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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312. ELLEN COVERLEY (21) , Stealing one coat of the goods and chattels of Charles Norton and another.

MR. PURCELL Prosecuted.

JAMES RICHARD FROST . I am shop-boy to Messrs. Norton and Stretton, pawnbrokers, Barking Road, "West Ham—on 15th January, about 2.45 p.m., the prisoner and a man came into the shop—the man held up a quilt in the shop and examined it, and asked me to sell it to him—I told him I could not sell it to him, as my master was not in, but he would be in a few minutes—I then saw the woman put something up her petticoats, and when she turned the man put the quilt down—I missed a coat off the counter which was safe just before they came in—when they got to the door, I said, "You have got a coat there," and the woman replied, "I will punch you on the nose if you say I have got the coat"—the man said the same—as they went on I noticed the coat dropping from her petticoats—she was pretending to be lame, so that it should not drop from her clothes—they walked along till they got to the Croydon Road, and when they got to the first turning they began to run—the coat then dropped, and the man picked it up, put it on, and ran away—I ran and got in front of them, and the man turned over a lot of green fields and ran away—the prisoner picked up half a brick and said she would aim it at me—soon afterwards Golding came up, and I gave her in charge—I only lost sight of the prisoner just as she turned the corner.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. When you came out of the shop I said you had got the coat, and you said, "I have not got the coat, I will punch you on the nose"—I was frightened of you.

ECCLES GOLDING (Police Inspector K). From information I received, I went to where the prisoner and the boy were, and the boy said in her presence, "I will give the woman into custody for stealing a coat from my master's shop"—she said she knew nothing about it; that she went into the shop with a man to buy a coat, but did not take the coat—I took her to the station—I have searched for the coat and made every inquiry for the man in vain.

Cross-examined. I never said anything about the boy.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I am not guilty."

The Prisoner's Defence. I am as innocent as the Judge sitting there. That boy knows I am innocent. If I had stolen the coat, why didn't he give me in charge I Should I pull a coat from my petticoats and let a man put it on his back? Why didn't he give the man in charge? I stopped.

GUILTY . The Prisoner PLEADED GUILTY to a conviction on January 2nd,

1877, and two other convictions were proved against him.— Seven Years Penal Servitude.

Frost was ordered a reward of 2l.

Before Mr. Justice Hawkins.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-313
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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313. WILLIAM JAMES KINSMAN (38), Rape on Sarah Adams . MR. CARTER Prosecuted.



Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-314
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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314. JOHN SWEEPER (a soldier) (28), Stealing a suit of clothes, a watch, and 25s., the property of David Thomas Williams.

MR. FOSTER REED Prosecuted.

DAVID THOMAS WILLIAMS . I am a draper's assistant at Swansea—on the 3rd of April, 1877, while going by steamboat from London to Woolwich, I formed the acquaintance of the prisoner on board, and treated him to liquor—on coming ashore he took me to the barracks and had more drink—subsequently I became intoxicated, and remember his putting me to bed—on waking up next morning I found I had nothing left; there was missing my gold watch and chain, 1l. 5s. in money, and all my clothing except my boots and my shirt—the prisoner had deserted—I gave information to the police on the 4th—I saw my watch afterwards on the 18th January—this is it (produced).

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You were with Bombardier Black on the steamboat—I do not recollect the name of the public-house we went to in town—there were several artillery-men there—no one joined us, no companions of ours—there was some singing, and they were all drinking—I did not sing—I did not say I intended to be a soldier if they would take me—I visited Woolwich for pleasure; to enjoy the evening going down on the boat—I had not been employed as assistant at Bleak and Robinson's drapery establishment—we went from the public-house to the barrack-room before 10 o'clock—no one asked me if I was going to London that night—you accompanied me to the barracks; no one else—I cannot say what became of your friends—I remember your putting me to bed at the barracks, nothing else—I did not send for beer—I could not say how many men there were, or how many the room would hold—it was a large room—it would hold about 50 men—I do not recollect you asking me for the clothing, or say anything about deserting—I am quite sure I would not give you my clothes and go without them myself—I enlisted, and was soon after admitted to the hospital and afterwards discharged—when I went to the police I wore the clothing of a recruit who was in barracks—I never appeared in barracks in your regimentals—they were taken away by the sergeant-major—there were no non-commissioned officers in the room that I am aware of—I had been employed as a draper's assistant in London previously to visiting Woolwich—I had not been discharged that morning; I had given notice—we leave at a moment's notice if we wish.

CHARLES WHITLOCK (Policeman). I am stationed at Woolwich—I saw the prisoner on the 11th January, and asked him to let mo see the watch he had in his possession—he produced it from his pocket, and I found the name and number corresponded with one that had been described for police information—I told him I should take him in custody and charge

him with having the watch in his possession—he replied, "A recruit gave me some clothing to desert in, and I found the watch in them"—that is the watch.

Cross-examined. You were at the office of the 5th Brigade when I arrested you, and had been there for six months.

The Prisoner, in his defence, stated that after they had been drinking together the prosecutor said he intended to be a soldier, and lent him his doilies to desert in, and gave him his money; that he found the watch in the vest pocket after he had deserted; that he found the prosecutor had been discharged; and that he carried the watch about with him and tried to find the prosecutor, and made no secret of having it in his possession.


10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-315
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

315. WILLIAM NIBLETT (33) PLEADED GUILTY to feloniously marrying Ann Elizabeth Lennaying, his former wife being then alive.— One Week's Imprisonment.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-316
VerdictsGuilty > unknown; Not Guilty > unknown
SentencesImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

316. JAMES SISSON (27) and DAVID ROBINSON (31) , Stealing from a barge on the River Thames a bag of coffee and barrel of pork, of the goods of Richard Phillips; and EDWARD GREEN (71) and WILLIAM JONES (23) , receiving the same, knowing them to be stolen.

MR. BESLEY and MR. RAVEN Prosecuted; MR. HORACE AVORY Defended Sisson and Robinson; and MR. STRAIGHT Defended Green and Jones.

SAMUEL RECKNELL . I am a lighterman, and was in charge of the barge Gray on the night of the 9th January and the morning of the 10th, when I brought her from the Victoria Docks—I had on board, when I left the docks, 9 barrels of pork, 3 bags of coffee, and 2 casks of coffee, 29 bags of india rubber, and other things—I came up with the tide—I reached Deptford at 3 a.m., and moored the Gray alongside of Penn's Hulk—there was no one else in charge—I went ashore to get provisions at about 7.20, and was absent about 13/4 or 2 hours—I then missed a barrel of pork and three bags of coffee—there was a tarpaulin on the top of the coffee, what we term "made up," and another tarpaulin over the pork—the weight of the bag of coffee would be about 11/4 or 11/2 cwt, and the barrel of pork I should think would be about 200 lb.—I took the barge up to Hibernia Wharf—I was lighterman in charge for Phillips, Graves, and Co.—I reported my loss immediately I got to Hibernia Chambers.

Cross-examined by MR. AVORY. I left Victoria Docks about 1 a.m.—I had not stopped anywhere till I got to Penn's Hulk—it was then high water—I went down below occasionally—it was daylight when I left the barge, and the cargo was perfect—I had a watch.

By the Jury. I am sure it was daylight, and not moonlight.

WALTER ROBERT STONE . I am a waterman, of 112, Watergate, Deptford—I was out in a skiff soon after 5 a.m. on 10th January, taking people over the water in the best way we could through the ice—I noticed a barge and a punt made fast to the hulk—I have known Robinson for some years—I saw him that morning in a boat made fast to the punt—I call a small barge a punt—it was as near 8 o'clock as could be when I saw Robinson—I had no timepiece, so I do not know to 10 minutes or a quarter of an hour—it was daylight—he was standing athwart, with a jacket over his head and shoulders to keep the weather away from him, the same as I should do—the boat was moored to the punt.

Cross-examined by MR. AVORY. You are obliged to fetch up where you can—it was a good morning; no snow—I have known Robinson for some time as a waterside labourer or "along shore man"—he had the coat over his head as if to keep the weather off.

By the Court. It was not raining—I did not take much notice of the boat he was in—I did not see anybody else there—it was quite daylight—as near 8 o'clock as could be.

SAMUEL RECKNELL (Re-examined). The Gray is of about 30 tons; a punt, as we term a small tonnage barge—there was nothing fastened to her when I went ashore—I was lying alongside the hulk—I was made fast to the stern of the barge ahead of me.

ALFRED GILBERT . I am a waterman of the General Steam Navigation Company—on January 10th, between 8 and 8.30 a.m., I was aboard the company's steam launch, about 500 feet from Penn's Hulk, taking in stores—I saw Sisson and Robinson, whom I have known for a number of years, on shore, rolling a cask alongside a barge—they were about 600 feet, I should think, from Penn's Hulk—the water gate is below Penn's Hulk.

Cross-examined by MR. AVORY. I was at the water gate, about 20 yards from where they were rolling the cask—they rolled it about 6 feet—I don't know what became of it or what it contained—we proceeded to London as soon as we got our stores in—I have known Sisson and Robinson as dredger-men and lighterers.

Re-examined. I saw a boat about as far as the width of the Court from where they were rolling the barrel.

OWEN BUCKLEY . Sisson lodged at my house, 74, New Street, Deptford, which is about three minutes' quick walk from the water gates, where the General Steam Navigation Company had their launch—Sisson owed me 1s. 6d.—on Friday, 10th January, about 9 or 10 o'clock, he gave me about 41b. of pork, which his wife said would outset the 1s. 6d—I afterwards gave it to the police.

Cross-examined by MR. AVORY. He has lodged in my house five months—I have known him since he was a child—he is a dredger or along shore man.

MARY KIRBY . I live at 39, New Street—on Friday, 10th January, I bought about 3lb. of pork for 2s. of Mrs. Sisson, which I afterwards gave to the police.

MARY PODBURY . I live at 140, Watergate Street, Deptford—on 10th January, before dinner, I bought two pieces of pork for 3s. of Robinson.

Cross-examined by MR. AVORY. I cannot say what they weighed—I believe he said he bought it of a man down at the water side.

LOUISA LILL . I live at 7, Butcher's Row, Deptford—on 10th January I bought a piece of pork for 2s. of Robinson, which I afterwards gave up to the officer.

Cross-examined by MR. AVORY. He said he had bought it of a man.

THOMAS FRANCIS (Police Sergeant R). At 1 o'clock a.m. on Sunday, 12th January, I went to 74, New Street and saw Sisson, who lodged there—he was in a chair in front of the fire—I said "Dress yourself, I am going to take you into custody for stealing some pork and coffee from the barge Gray, on the morning of the 10th"—he said "I don't know anything about it"—while he was dressing I searched the room and I found a small piece of pork, which had been boiled, in a plate—I called

Mr. Buckley, the landlord, into the room and said, in Sisson's hearing, "Have you bought any pork of Sisson?"—he said "I have a piece which he gave me on Friday to set off 1s. 6d. which ho owed me"—Sisson said nothing and I took him to the station—I then went to 96, Watergate Street with Sergeant Howard, where I found Robinson in bed upstairs—Howard told him the charge and asked him if he had any pork in the room—he said "No"—Howard searched and found a piece of pork in. a pail—we then took him to the station—we then went to the house of the last witness, who gave some pork up to us—we went to No. 1, Burling Street, Blackheath Hill, at 7.30 the same morning, and saw Jones and Green at the window—I said to Jones "I want to speak to you a minute, Jones"—he said "All right, I will come outside"—said "Did you buy any coffee on Friday?"—he said "No"—I said "I have reason to believe you did"—he said "I went there on Friday or Thursday; the old man was there," meaning Green—I said "Let me speak to the old man"—he called Green out of the house, and I said to Green "Did you buy any coffee on Friday?"—he said "No"—I said "Are you sure?"—he said "Yes"—he then went into the house—I then said to Jones "I have every reason to believe you did buy it; will you come down and let me look over your shop? '—he is a marine-store dealer, and has a shop in Wellington Street, Deptford—he said "It is no use going there; why, they would not bring coffee to me; they would take it to the coffee roaster's"—I said "As you deny buying it I shall have to take you into custody for receiving it"—he said "Let me speak to the old man"—he went into the house and had some conversation with Green, and then came out and said "The old man has bought it; he let two men leave it there when I was out"—we then proceeded to go to the shop in Wellington Street, Deptford—when at Blackheath Hill Jones called me on one side and said "Are you going to lock me up?" I said "We shall see"—he pulled two sovereigns out of his pocket and said "Take this"—we then went on to Wellington Street, and in the shop I told Green I should take him into custody—he said "I did not buy it it; I let two men leave it there"—I would not be sure whether he said "When Jones was out" or "When the governor was out; they asked me to let them leave it there"—at the station, on his seeing Sisson and Robinson, he said "I cannot say that they are the men, but they are very much like them"—I said "They are the two men who are charged with stealing the coffee"—I should say 74, New Street, is about 500 or 600 yards from Watergate, and 96, Watergate Street, would be about 1,000 yards, and the shop in Wellington Street would be about a quarter of a mile—I received a piece of pork from each of the women, Kirby, Podbury, and Lill.

Cross-examined by MR. AVORY. The piece of pork I found at Sissoh's would weigh about a quarter of a pound, and the piece found at Robinson's about four pounds—I pointed the men out at the station to Green.

Cross-examined by MR. STRAIGHT. Jones's houee is about three quarters of a mile from his shop—I should think he has been in business there all three years—I did not hear him offer anything to Howard—I was in plain clothes.

SAMUEL HOWARD (Thames Policeman). I went with Francis to Sisson's, and I corroborate what he has said—we then went to 96, Watergate Street, where we found Robinson in bed—I said "I am a police officer, and am

going to take you into custody for being concerned with another in custody in stealing pork and coffee from the barge Gray at Deptford Watergate"—he said "I know nothing about it"—I said "Have you any pork in your room?"—he said "No"—I then searched, and found in a pail of water at the foot of his bed a piece of pork of about four pound's weight—I said "Where did you get this from?"—he said "I bought it"—I said "From whom?"—he says "Some b——at the Watergate; I don't know"—I then took him into custody, and charged him with stealing—I then went With Francis to Burling Street, Blackheath Hill—I saw Green at the window—Francis called him out—I heard what was said by Francis, and corroborate it—I saw some money in Jones's hand, but I could not swear whether he offered it to Francis—he offered him something—I heard him say "Take this; are you going to lock me up?"—Francis said he should see, and we then went on to the place in Wellington Street—I followed Jones in—at the end of three bales of rags which were lying in front of the counter in the passage he removed three or four gunny bags, and pulling out a bag he said "I suppose this is it"—I then ordered Police-constable Tady to take him into custody, and we removed the coffee to the station—I was in plain clothes—I pulled out a second bag myself that was alongside the other one. (Samples of the coffee awl pork were produced.)

Cross-examined. Robinson was in bed, and not in a very good temper at being fetched out—no more of the pork has been traced—the whole of the coffee that has been recovered amounts to 1cwt. 1st 6lb.

BENJAMIN JENSON . I live at 39, Drummond Road, Bermondsey, and am foreman to Mr. Phillips—I only know the pork with which the Gray was loaded by the description given by the lighterman—the value of the bags of coffee produced is about 6l., and the barrel of pork 4l.

EUGENE McCANN . I am provision foreman at Hibernia Wharf, London Bridge—the Gray arrived at the wharf, when I saw eight barrels of mess pork landed—there should have been nine—there was one short—I saw five or six of the barrels opened, 2nd to the best of my belief the quality of the pork was the same as that produced.

HENRY COLLINS . I am deputy warehouse keeper and colonial sampler at Hibernia Wharf—I produce two samples of coffee—one was given to me by the detective at the police-court, and the other I drew from a cask taken from the bulk—not from one of the casks on board the Gray, but from the same previous ship—some of the coffee was in barrels, and some in bags—they all bore the same mark—I drew the sample B—A was handed to me by the detective—I believe them to be similar.

Cross-examined by MR. STRAIGHT. Green coffees are not very much alike.

JOHN TADY (Thames Policeman). I took sample A from one of those bags, and took it to Hibernia Wharf, and gave it to Mr. Humphreys, the owner of the wharf—I took Jones into custody by Howard's direction—he said "Two men came to my shop on Friday morning, and asked the old man if the governor was at home; I said 'No,' then they dropped the bags there, and said they would call again."

ALFRED GILBERT (Re-examined). I was examined before the Magistrate, and said I saw the two men rolling a cask up to the side of a barge—that is true—the barge was aground.

JONES received a good character.




having been convicted of a like offence in 1865, and some minor convictions were proved against SISSON.

SISSON— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

ROBINSON— Fifteen Months' Imprisonment.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-317
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

317. WILLIAM COOPER (22) PLEADED GUILTY to stealing a watch, a purse, and a chain of Edward Ireson.— Six Months' Imprisonment.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-318
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown

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318. FRANCIS STEPHEN THATCHER (20) and THOMAS WALE (35) , Stealing two trusses of hay of the London, Brighton, and South Coast Railway Company.

MESSRS. OPPENHEIM and MOSELEY Prosecuted; MR. RAVEN appeared for Thatcher, and MR. BESLEY for Wale.

THOMAS STUMP (Policeman P 375). I am stationed at Forest Hill—on 23rd January I spoke to Mr. Smith, the station-master, went into the goods yard, searched, and found two trusses of mixture concealed in the porters' room—I mixed with it some pieces of paper on which I put my initials, and Mr. Smith put a cross on them—we inserted two pieces in each truss, and kept watch—at 3 a.m. the prisoner Wale came in with a horse and cart and came out a few minutes afterwards with two trusses of stuff in his cart—I went round Perry Vale and stopped at the Forest Hill Hotel—I then followed Wale to a greengrocer's shop in Stanstead Road, where he stopped 10 minutes or a quarter of an hour, and then went on to his stable in Malham Road, backed his cart against the loft window, and was in the act of putting the truss into the loft, when I went up and said "Well, where did you get that truss from?"—he said "Why, what makes you ask me; that is a funny question for you to ask me, is not it?"—I said "I wish to know"—I was in plain clothes, but he knew me—he said "Why! do you think I stole them, then?"—I said "I don't know, I wish to know where you got them from"—he said "If you must know, I got them from Forest Hill station—I said "How did you get them there?"—he said "I bought them of one of the goods porters, the man who serves the stuff out"—I said "What did you give him for it?"—he said "Well, I don't think I am bound to answer that question"—I said "Please yourself"—an officer in uniform was there, and I ordered him to take him in custody—I said "I believe you have got the property of the London, Brighton, and South Coast Railway in your cart, and there are some of my marks in it"—I opened the hay, took one of my papers out and showed it to him, saying, "There is my initials and Mr. Smith, the station-masters cross"—he said that he was quite innocent—I then went to Thatcher in the goods yard and told him I should take him on a charge of stealing two trusses of hay, the property of the London, Brighton, and South Coast Railway—he said "I did not steal them, I found them in the goods yard; I did not know who they belonged to, and I sold them to Wale for 1s."—I took him to the station and found on him 1l. in gold, 1s., and an address label—the two trusses I saw in Wale's place were the same that I saw in the goods yard with my marks.

Cross-examined by MR. RAVEN. The two trusses were in the porters' room, but quite open—Thatcher said "I found them in the goods yard," not "I bound them"—I have known him, but know nothing against him.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. I have known Wale 18 months, all the time I have been at Forest Hill—he is a very respectable man—I have seen a great many witnesses who have come to speak for him to-day—the goods yard is enclosed by gates, but it is open to the railway—I advised Adam,

the constable, to get up in the cart and ride with Wale, which he did—he was in uniform—I walked to the station, one-eighth of a mile—Wale was not present when this occurred with Thatcher, he afterwards went in the cart with Adams to Sydenham station, half a mile off—the Magistrate allowed him out on bail.

GEORGE ADAMS (Policeman P). I went with Stump to Wales's stable, and saw him unloading two trusses of hay—I took him in custody—I saw the trusses at the station—they weighed 54 lb. each—they have been at the station all the time—I have known Wale nine years.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Wale said that he had bought the two trusses for litter—I was in uniform—during the nine years I have known him he has borne a most high character—his horse began to trot, and I said "I can hardly keep up, I should like to drive," and he said "Jump up"—the hay is still in the same state, except that I put new bands on it, as they were broken by lifting it.

HENRY WILLIAM SMITH . I am station-master at Forest Hill—Thatcher was the only goods porter there—hay is kept in the goods yard, and there were 300 or 400 trusses there on 22nd and 23rd January—they are not kept in the porters' room—on 23rd January Stump came to me and I went with him to the goods yard at 7 p.m., and found in the porter's office two trusses of hay—four pieces of paper were put into it, and I arranged with Stump to watch—I saw the trusses at the police station two days afterwards, and saw the two pieces of paper put into each—those two trusses were I should say good hay, they were not thrown aside to be sold as litter—Thatcher had no authority to dispose of it—I was present on the 24th, when Stump accused Thatcher of stealing the hay—he said that he had it to put in the goods room—I questioned him about it, and he admitted that he had sold it for 6d. a truss—when there are sweepings of hay in the yard it is cleared up with the rubbish and put in a truck and buried—these are not sweepings—I know Wale, and have seen him in the yard; he came for hay, and always had a consignment note—I never allow goods to be taken away except by persons who have consignment notes.

Cross-examined by MR. RAVEN. We have hay in every day—the trucks are run into the goods yard and the hay is unloaded into waggons—once or twice the consignees have stored hay on the premises to release the trucks—I did not touch these two trusses, I could not—I was accountable for 60 trusses, and I charged him with stealing two trusses without going home and counting to see if I had lost any—I have never known the bands burst on unloaning hay, and the only litter has been from the sweepings of the trucks or the droppings from the cart—the two trusses of hay were good serviceable stuff—this is clover—Thatcher came there I think last May; he has a wife and child—he was taken on the 24th.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. I have known Wale some years—several residents at Forest Hill are here to give him a character—I go into the goods yard occasionally—there is sometimes a litter in the yard from the sweepings of the trucks—we have 700 or 800 trusses a week—all the hay swept up is not appropriated by the company—the sweepings are sent away and sold; We do not give the money to the consignor—I cannot say whether it goes to dividends—I heard Wale say that he was innocent of knowing that it was stolen—Mr. Martin, of Brockley, is a large consignor of hay to our place—he could not have his hay there because there is no siding—the consignor

often stands by the cart and sells—if Mr. Martin gave two trusses of hay to our porter it would be against the company's rules for him to keep it, but I do not see any harm in it.

Re-examined. Litter consists of the sweepings from the trucks—we do not appropriate it to dividends; we burn it—it is of no value—there is not the slightest pretence for saying that this was litter—litter is never concealed in the porters' room—besides the consignment of Mr. Martin's 60 trusses there was another consignment of 80 trusses—I ascertained the value from Mr. Martin—goods are only delivered upon a consignment note unless the consignee comes himself—no goods were consigned to Wale on this occasion—the servants are not allowed to receive gratuities.

RICHARD RELF (Police Inspector M). I am stationed at Sydenham—I was present when Adams brought Wale in and said, "You are brought there for receiving two stolen trusses of hay"—he said, "I did not know they were stolen; I bought them for 1s., 6d. a truss," and that he bought them as litter as it was mouldy—I examined it; it was in very good condition, and consisted of clover and rye grass, properly done up and square—there is no pretence for saying that it was litter—when Thatcher was brought in Wale said, "You told me it was yours"—Thatcher said, "No, I did not"—Wale said, "Yes, you did"—Thatcher said that he found the two trusses of hay in the yard, and sold them to Wale for 1s.

Cross-examined by MR. RAVEN. I receive the hay and forage for the police horses, and if I condemn it it is condemned—I say that this is good hay; it is not half docks, thistles, and rushes.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY I have known Wale many years—we do not deal with the railway company—our contract price is a secret which I do not know.

CHARLES ATTRIDGE . I am in the employ of Martin and Company, of Brockley, who consigned five or six trusses of hay to Messrs. Martin, and Thatcher often helped me unload it—most of it was good.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Hay varies in quality a good deal—Wale did not deal with Martin—my master consigns to his brother at Forest Hill.

REUBEN MARTIN . I am a farmer at Brockley, and am in the habit of having hay consigned to me, which comes by the Brighton Railway to Forest Hill—some hay was consigned to me in January, value 5l. a load, or 2s. 10d., or 2s. 11d. a truss—it was very good; it was not mouldy—I should not call it litter at 6d. a truss—I never gave any trusses of hay to Thatcher or authorised any of my people to do so—I never met Wale before that Monday, and never had any transactions with him.

Cross-examined by MR. RAVEN. I do not grow it; it was consigned to me daily during January—hay was selling at 5l. 10s. a ton during January—you could not buy the best at 4l. 15s. or 5l.—5l. a ton is half-a-crown a truss—this is the best mixture.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. I have an uncle at Brockley, Benjamin Martin—he sells on my account—he is here.

Re-examined. This which is called hay is a mixture of hay, clover, and something else—meadow hay is the cheapest.

Witnesses for Wale.

BENJAMIN MARTIN . I am a cow-keeper, of Forest Hill—I have known Wale 10 years—he is an honest, honourable man—I have done a deal of business with him, and have sold him hay consigned to my brother.

Cross-examined by MR. OPPENHEIM. I never gave any bay as a present to Thatcher—he assisted in unloading the trucks—I sell over the truck side, and what I do not sell there I take home.

WALE received an excellent character.—



10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-319
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

319. FRANCIS STEPHEN THATCHER was again indicted for stealing five bottles of whisky, the property of the London, Brighton, and South Coast Railway Company, to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Nine Months' Imprisonment.

Before Mr. Recorder.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-320
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

320. JEREMIAH O'NEIL (23) , Breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Thomas Alfred Hearson and stealing therein one box of mathematical instruments, two jackets, and other articles, his property.

MR. TAMPLIN Prosecuted.

THOMAS ALFRED HEARSON . I live at 4, Glenmore Terrace, Greenwich, and am engaged at the Naval College—on 19th December I went to Devonshire, leaving my house locked up and the key with Mr. Lucas, next door—on 2nd January I received a telegram, came to town to my house, and found the door leading from the front had been broken open, and it had marks on it—the latch of the dining-room window had been opened from the outside, and there were marks of a knife—the dining-room door had been burst open from the inside—I missed an overcoat from the hall, and from an upper room a box of mathematical instruments, a cigar case, and all these things (produced)—I don't know the prisoner—the front door was fastened as I left it.

HORACE CHETWIND . I live at 9, Glenmore Terrace—on 1st January about 1 o'clock in the day my attention was called to No. 4 on the same side of the way—I went there—the front door was locked, but the window was open—I got in at the window, went into the passage, and saw two men looking over the balusters—the prisoner was one of them—he had this pair of fire-tongs (produced) in his hand—they rushed downstairs, and succeeded in getting to the front door—the prisoner tumbled down the steps—I caught hold of him, and held him some time—he tried to get away and struggled some time, but got away; I pursued him, and he picked up a flint, but did not throw it—he went into a stable and I lost sight of him for half a minute or a minute, but I saw him come out, and am sure he is the man.

WILLIAM HUNT . I live at 4, Hyde Vale Villas, opposite 4, Glenmore Terrace—on 1st January I saw a struggle between the prisoner and Mr. Chetwind—I went out; the prisoner had then escaped—I pursued him with Mr. Chetwind—he ran a long way down Hyde Vale and Upper George Street and to the top of Hyde Vale again, where I saw him throw something which glittered over a garden wall—we kept him in sight till he ran into a stable.

LEWIS CROFT (Police-Sergeant R 14). On the afternoon of 1st January I was called to 4, Glenmore Terrace, and found it in the condition described—all this property was on the first landing, and these tongs were lying in the passage—I afterwards went to Wilton House, a few doors off, and found this butterdish cover and cigar case in the garden, the wall of which has been described, which adjoins the road.

EDWARD SMITH . I am a labourer, of 15, Tasker Street, East Greenwich—on 1st of January I heard a cry of "Stop thief!" and saw the prisoner

running—I am sure of him—I ran after him, and caught him in a stable—he said that two men had broken into the crib in Hyde Vale and made a mess of it—I asked him why he had been running—he said that the boys had been pulling him about—I took him to the bottom of Blackheath Road and gave him in custody.

WILLIAM BARNES (Policeman 22 RR). On 1st January I heard of this robbery, met Smith with the prisoner, and took him to the station—I found nothing on him—he said nothing.

Prisoner's Defence. I left a public-house. Two men asked me to go with them. They stole the things. I own I am guilty of taking the cigar case, but nothing else.

GUILTY .*— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.


Before Mr. Recorder.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-321
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

321. ALFRED TRACEY (25) , Stealing five pieces of cloth, one firkin, and 84lb. of butter, of the London, Brighton, and South Coast Railway Company.


JAMES RICHARD BATE . I am in the employ of Messrs. Cook and Sons, of St. Paul's Churchyard—this cloth (produced) belongs to them—I know it quite well—on 2nd November I received a traveller's order for six pieces for Lelliot, of Brighton—I selected them, and executed the order the same day—I did not pack them.

HENRY PATTESON . I am in the packing department of Cook and Sons—on 2nd November I delivered a canvas truss containing cloth to a carman named Smith belonging to the North Western Railway Company for Lelliot, of Brighton—I entered it at the time in this book, which Smith signed in my presence.

JOHN TREDENNICK . I am in the employ of Cook and Sons—this piece of black cloth belongs to them—this ticket was on it on 2nd November in their warehouse at the time the cloth was selected.

JOSEPH SMITH . I am a carman in the employ of the London and North-Western Railway Company—on 2nd November last I received from Cook and Son's 14 packages, amongst them a truss of cloth for Lelliot, of Brighton, and signed this book for it—I took the goods to the head office at the Swan with Two Necks in Gresham Street, and they were checked off there—I delivered them as I received them, including the truss.

THOMAS ROGERS . I am employed at the Swan booking-office in Gresham Street—I was there on Saturday, 2nd November—I saw a package brought in, and delivered it to Stageman's van belonging to the Brighton Railway.

HENRY WOODLEY . I am a checker in the employ of the Brighton Railway Company at Willow Walk station—I was there on November 2nd—I remember some goods being brought there by Stageman—I checked them with the delivery note—I did not find a truss for Lelliot, of Brighton—there ought to have been—I made a note of it on the delivery note.

WILLIAM WOOD . I am in the employ of Emma Lelliot, a draper, of Trafalgar Street, Brighton—at the latter end of October last I gave an order for some cloth to Messrs. Cook's traveller from a sample which he showed me—it was similar to the cloth produced—it did not arrive—I expected it 4 or 5 days after I had ordered it.

CHARLES CHAPMAN . I am butterman to the London Brighton and South Coast Railway Company—it is my business to attend to the butter at the Willow Walk Station—on November 4 there were 60 tubs and 72 crocks of butter to go to Dixon, Carter, and Co., of Whitechapel—the tubs were marked K C B; this tub (produced) is so marked—Stageman's van was at the Willow Walk Station that morning, and I loaded it with the 60 tube and the crocks of butter—at that time there were 40 firkins of butter at the station; they were not for Dixon and Co.—I did not put any firkin on the van—Stageman left with the van—after he had gone I missed a firkin—this (produced) is one of the firkins.

JOHN CRONIN . I am a van boy in the service of the London Brighton and South Coast Railway Co.—on Nov. 4 last I went out as mate with Stage-man, who was a carman in their employ—we had to deliver some butter at Dixon and Carter's—we stopped on the road to breakfast—we then went to 3, Collingwood Street, Bethnal Green—Stageman then said, "Hand me down one firkin and a tub of the butter"—I did so, and it was taken in to No. 3, Collingwood Street—I saw the prisoner there on that occasion at the door; he took the butter in—I heard him talking to Stageman; I did not hear what was said—I had seen him before with Stageman, about twice, at Willow Walk—he came with us twice for a ride.

Cross-examined. He lives at 3, Collingwood Street—Stageman was in charge of the van—I saw everything that was taken down—I was behind—the things were taken off in front—nothing else was taken off at the prisoner's house—I was not there when a brown paper parcel was taken in—when we left Collingwood Street we went to Dixon and Carter's—I was with the van all the day—there was an accident in Dixon and Carter's yard, the pole caught Stageman in the chest, and he went to the hospital.

JOHN WILLIAM INGERSOLE . I am a carman in the service of the Brighton Railway Company—on November 4 I was sent to Dixon and Carter's yard to take charge of Stageman's van—I unloaded it—I found 59 tubs of butter and 72 crocks; that was all there was in the van—I looked at the sheet that was given to Stageman.

JAMES WALSH (Police-Sergeant M). On November 4, about 1 o'clock, in consequence of circumstances that came to my knowledge, I went with Harvy to Collingwood Street—it is a very low street, nobody living in it as far as I could see but a lot of costermongers; there were a lot of costermongen' barrows in the street—as we were going down Boundary Street a little girl, between 10 and 12, who stood at the public-house at the corner facing Collingwood Street, called out "Coppers"—she ran into No. 3—I and Harvey ran after her as hard as we could; we pushed her into the passage and ran upstairs—the room door was partly open—I jumped inside to the middle of the floor, and said, "We are policemen"—the prisoner and a man named Hill were in the room—I said, "What about this butter?" the firkin of butter and this cloth were standing beside him; the cover was on, but un-fastened—Hill and the prisoner were standing together—I had no sooner spoken than I was hit on both sides by the two—there was a picture there, and I was driven through the picture—the prisoner ran and jumped through the first-floor window and escaped, and Hill was going downstairs—a dog had hold of me behind—I ran after Hill, brought him back, and threw him down on the floor, and Harvey took possession of him—I then searched the room—I found these 5 pieces of cloth, one of which had on the ticket that has

been produced; I gave it to Mr. Wright—4 of the pieces of cloth were on the bad, partly open; this black piece was in a box under the bed—I gave evidence here in December, when Stageman was tried and convicted of stealing the butter—I made many inquiries for Tracey, but could not find him—I went to the house night and day—I knew where he was, but every time I went there he was sure to be gone—I afterwards saw him in custody at the Southwark Police-court in January.

Cross-examined. Hill was tried for receiving this property, and was acquitted—he pleaded guilty to an assault upon me—I have also preferred an indictment against the prisoner for the assault—he hit me; both of them hit me together—I did not see any more of the girl in the house—the room was a small front-room; there are only four rooms in the house—the land-lady told me the prisoner lived there—the butter was about a yard inside the door.

Re-examined. Hill did not live there, he lived at 25, Hackney Road.

GEORGE HARVEY (Police Sergeant M). I was in company with "Walsh on this occasion, when the prisoner jumped out of the window; I am quite sure he is the same man—he was charged at the station with taking this butter—he said "All right" or "That's right."

ELIZABETH VENABLES . I live with my husband, Charles Venables, at 3, Collingwood Street—the prisoner lodged there for five or six months before November—he occupied the front room upstairs—on 4th November I was there when a tub and a firkin of butter were brought in—the prisoner was in his own room upstairs at the time—I was not present when he was at the door—I saw the two constables come and go upstairs—the prisoner did not come back to his lodging after that day—I did not see the cloth brought to the house; I heard something come on the Saturday night, that was the cloth—I do not know who brought it.

Cross-examined. My door was half open, and the prisoner carried the cloth by the room door; it was rolled up in something; I saw a great big bundle on his back—I swear it was the cloth—my name is not Venables, that is the name I go by.

JOHN WRIGHT . I am a detective in the employ of the London, Brighton, and South Coast Railway Company—on 4th November last I saw the cloth and took this ticket from it—I know the prisoner; he was in the employ of the Brighton Railway in 1867 for a month all but four days as carman.

GEORGE LODGE (Policeman H 98). I arrested the prisoner in Pelham Street, Brick Lane, Spitalfields, on 4th January—I told him I wanted him for the butter job over the water—he said I was wrong.

GUILTY of receiving the cloth and stealing the butter . He further

PLEADED GUILTY** to a previous conviction at Newington on 8th September, 1878.— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-322
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

322. FRANK FOSTER (28) alias FRANCIS TAYLOR , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. POLAND Prosecuted.

FLORA WRIGHT . I am the wife of Alfred Wright, landlord of the Hat and Feathers, Gravel Lane—on the 14th January, about 11.45 at night, I was alone in the bar—the prisoner came in and asked for a pint of old and mild, and gave in payment half-a-crown—I felt it was bad and tested it in

the tester under the counter—it bent very easily—I could have bent it double—I am sure it was bad—I put it on the counter, the prisoner took it up and gave me a good shilling, and I gave him in change a sixpence and threepence in bronze—he put the half-crown in his pocket—there was a young man with him—my husband came in about 11.55—the prisoner and his friend were there then—as my husband walked in at the door the prisoner's friend walked out—I told my husband "This man has tendered me a bad half-crown, and he has it on him"—the prisoner then went out and my husband followed him—he was shortly afterwards brought back in custody—he was quite sober.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I took the half-crown a little from your sight to test it underneath the counter—I have never bent good silver in that way—I did not bend it much; I could feel it was bad—you walked towards the fire, but I do not think you got to it—I did not see you light your pipe—I did not hear you say anything to the other man about the half-crown.

JOHN WHITE . I am a coal porter at 23, Pitts Place, Bankside—I was at the Hat and Feathers on the night of 14th January, about 11.45, and heard the prisoner ask for a pint of malt liquor—he put down half-a-crown in payment—I saw the last witness take it up—I did not see her test it, but I saw her bring it back bent—she said to the prisoner "This is a bad one," and gave it him back—he passed it at once to the man who was with him, and I saw him pay the landlady with the good money—he stopped about three minutes after that—when the landlord came in he went out, and the landlord went after him.

Cross-examined. I saw you put the half-crown on the bar—you stopped about two minutes after the other man had gone—you went towards the fire.

Re-examined. I am quite sure this is the man who put down the half-crown.

ALFRED MAWLEY . I am a hat-box maker at Angel Place—I was at the Hat and Feathers, and saw the prisoner served—I saw him put down half a crown in payment—I saw it given back to him, and he gave a good shilling in payment, and received his change—before the landlord came in the prisoner passed the half-crown to the other man—when the landlord came the other man went out—the prisoner went towards the fire, to light his pipe—the landlady said to the landlord "That man has given me a bad half-crown in payment for a pint of ale"—the prisoner didn't wait to light his' pipe—he went out, and the landlord after him—I followed, and saw him given into custody.

Cross-examined. I saw the half-crown—I could not swear it was a bad one, but I saw the landlady take it up and test it—you stayed about a minute after the other man left, but as soon as you heard the remark that was passed, you dropped the spill out of your hand and walked out—you might have seen the witness test the half-crown—there was a partition between—you were standing by the counter, and could turn your head and see all over the house—I am sure she took the half-crown and tested it, but I cannot say whether you saw her test it—you took up the half-crown, and gave it to the other man.

Re-examined. I am certain the prisoner is the man—I did not have the half-crown in my hand at all.

GEORGE HOLMES (Police Sergeant M 2). Mr. Wright gave the prisoner into custody for tendering a bad half-crown—I said to the prisoner "How do you account for having it in your possession?"—he said "I never had it, neither did I pay for anything at the bar," but about three minutes afterwards said "I did pay one shilling, and received ninepence change"—I took him back to the house, and searched him—I found sixpence in silver, and thirteenpence in bronze good money—with assistance I took him to the station—he was quite sober—he did not say where he got the money from—he did not resist.

WILLIAM JOHN BIGWOOD . I am a pork-butcher, at 16, Great Suffolk Street—I was outside my shop on the night of Saturday, December 28th—one of my men spoke to me, and I went inside the shop—the prisoner was there—I said "You have offered a 2s. piece, let me see it"—he showed me a florin—I examined it, and tried it in a tester, and bent two edges of it, one each way—I am satisfied it was a bad one—it bent very easily—I have all my life had experience in testing—I said "I believe you are the party who gave me a bad shilling last night, I think you had better get away as soon as you can"—I would not swear he was the man who gave me the shilling—he left then, and I told Davey to follow him—he was shortly afterwards brought back by two constables and charged, and taken before the Magistrate on Monday, remanded till Wednesday, and discharged—mine was the only case against him—my shopman, Smith, called my attention to the florin—it was tendered to Allcock.

Cross-examined. Perhaps I did not say at the police-court that I bent both edges—I remembered it, but did not think it necessary to mention it—I swear I was not told to say so.

EDWARD ALLCOCK . I assist the last witness on Saturday nights—I was in his shop on Saturday night 28th December, between 9 and 10 o'clock—I know the prisoner—I served him with saveloys and pudding, price 3d.—he gave me a 2s. piece in payment—I did not like the look of it—I gave him the copper in change, and went round to the detector and tried it—I bent the coin—it was bad, and bent very easily—I had no doubt about it—I gave it to Smith behind the counter—I said to the prisoner "It is a bad one"—and he said "Oh! is it? and gave me a good shilling, and I gave him the change—I asked him whether he knew where he got it, and he seemed to consider a little, and then said "Oh, I've got it!" but did not tell me any place.

WILLIAM TEMPLE SMITH . I assist at Mr. Bigwood's shop—I was there on the night of the 28th December, and the last witness showed me a florin—I saw it was bad—the prisoner was then in the shop—I put the florin down on the counter, and went outside to tell Mr. Bigwood—he went in, and I remained outside.

COURTENAY DAVEY . I assist Mr. Bigwood—I saw the prisoner in the shop on the night of the 28th December, and saw him leave—in consequence of what Mr. Bigwood said I followed him down Suffolk Street into Southwark Bridge Road to King Street—about two or three hundred yards or more—in King Street he got under a lamp, and took something out of his pocket as if sorting it over—under the railway arch he stooped down and got up again, and went back into Southwark Bridge Road—there was a drain close by where he stooped down—he went back to Suffolk Street, and went into a fish-shop—when he came out I pointed him out to a constable, who stopped

him—I said in the prisoner's presence "He has tendered a bad 2s. piece at our shop"—the prisoner said "Well, what of it?"—he was taken back to the shop, and afterwards to the police-station.

Cross-examined. I did not hear you say when the constable was there that it was a good 2s. piece, and that you changed it—the fried-fish shop is about eight doors from our shop.

Re-examined. He had something, and paid for it at the fried-fish shop—I did not see what it was.

GEORGE THOMAS MARTIN (Policeman M 300). On the night of the 28th December the last witness pointed out the prisoner to me in Great Suffolk Street—I ran after him, and stopped him as he was walking away—the last witness came up, and said "You are the man that tendered a bad 2s. piece in our shop to-night"—the prisoner said "Yes, what about it?"—I then asked Davey if he was going to give him in custody—he said he would hear what Mr. Bigwood said—I took him to the shop, and Mr. Bigwood gave him into custody—on the way to the station afterwards the prisoner said "They gave it to me back, saying it was a bad one. It was not a bad one, it was good, and I have changed it at another place"—I said "Where did you change it?"—he said "I don't know," or words to that effect—at the station I searched him, and found upon him 3s. 6d. in silver and 10d. bronze good money—no florin—on the charge being read over to him for uttering on the 27th and also on the 28th he replied "I know nothing about it"—he was taken before the Magistrate on Monday the 30th, remanded, and discharged—he gave his name as Frank Foster, Price Street, Gravel Lane.

Prisoner's Defence. On the 28th December I went into the shop and called for some pork and pudding. I gave the witness a two-shilling piece. He said it was bad. I looked at it, and saw it was a good one; it would not bend. I walked out to a fish shop about eight doors farther and changed it for some fish. I got under the lamp to look at the money and fouud it was good, and then changed it. At the Hat and Feathers I went with another man, and I gave Mrs. Wright the half-crown, and she came back and said it was bad. The other man put it in his pocket and said "I will take it back," and went away as fast as he could. I drank my ale and was leaning by the counter, and then went to light my pipe at the fire, and went out The landlord followed me. I never had the half crown.

GUILTY . He also PLEADED GUILTY to a previous conviction for a similar offence on 28th November, 1876, in the name of Francis Taylor, after a previous conviction of felony.— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-323
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

323. HARRY EMMS VOSS (24) , Unlawfully receiving six boxes of cigars, well knowing them to have been obtained by false pretences. Other counts for inciting Richard Lloyd to steal the cigars.

MR. POLAND and MR. GILL Prosecuted; MR. BAGGALLAY Defended.

RICHARD LLOYD . I am a prisoner undergoing a sentence in Wandsworth Gaol—I pleaded guilty last session, and was sentenced to four months' imprisonment for forging an endorsement on a cheque (See page 260)—I was 16 years old last June—I was arrested on 16th December—I was barman some time back at the Hen and Chickens, kept by James Goddard, Surrey Square, Old Kent Road—on 6th December I got this letter, written by some one at the Market Chambers Lodging-house, Charterhouse Street—I furnished the name of Goddard and the particulars, and took the letter to

Mr. Roberts's shop between 12 and 1 the same day, presented the order to Beare the clerk—another assistant, Woodward was there—I said "Mr. Goddard has sent this order, and I am to wait for the goods,' and the shop-man delivered to me six boxes of cigars and eight pounds of tobacco in two brown paper parcels, which I took direct to the prisoner's shop, 98, Old Kent Road—he was behind the counter—I knew him before as a customer at the Hen and Chickens when I was employed there—it was about nine months since I had seen him—I said "Will you buy these cigars?"—he looked at them and said "I have got a lot coming in on Saturday, and I don't require them"—I said "Look at them; you shall have them for 30s."—he opened one of the boxes, looked at them, and said again "I have a lot coming in on Saturday"—I said "You shall have them for 25s."—somebody came from the parlour, looked at the cigars, and said "They are London make, and will be cheap at a sovereign, and I will take half"—the prisoner looked at them again, went into the parlour, and brought me a half-sovereign and 10s. in silver, and I left the cigars—soon after I got into the shop I said "I am on board the boats; they are the sort that the officers smoke"—I said that I brought them from the boats—before I left I said "If you want any more you can tell Kingwell"—he is a friend of the prisoner—the gentleman who came out of the parlour said "Have not you got an address you can leave?"—I said "Yes," and I wrote my address, "8, The Oval, Hackney Road," and gave it to Voss—that is my uncle, Mr. Fowler's, house—I was not living there then, but I go there from time to time—the six boxes were exactly like this one (produced), but this is not one of them—I did not go to 8, The Oval, and never received any letter—I sold the tobacco to a pawnbroker. (Letter read: "Hen and Chickens, Surrey Square, Old Kent Road, December 6, 1878. Sir,—Will you kindly forward per bearer 81b. tobacco, as I had an accident with the last which the traveller left, so that I am short that weight Send me also six boxes El Conchas of your 2d. cigars, which I will take on trial—Yours respectfully, James Goddard. To J. J. Roberts, Borough."

Cross-examined. I had left the Hen and Chickens nine or twelve months, and then went on the Hamburg boats—I attempted no concealment—I had not seen the prisoner for some time—I led him to understand that I was on steamers going to a foreign port, but I did not mention Hamburg—I made him believe they came from one of the foreign stations, but did not say which station, and that I had got them in the course of my business on board the boats—the officers sometimes bring over a few cigars, which they sell at a profit in England—these cigars would cost 4s. 2d. or 5s. a box abroad, without the duty—I told Roberts that I had got the packet of tobacco for somebody in Hoxton—the other gentleman said that the cigars' were London make, and I think Voss heard it—he was on the other side of the counter; I heard it, and I am a little deaf.

AUGUSTUS BEAR . I am clerk to Mr. Roberts, tobacconist, of 159, High Street, Borough—he has a customer named James Goddard at the Hen and Chickens—on 6th December Lloyd brought this order—I read it, and directed Woodward to look out the goods and deliver them to him—I believed that Mr. Goddard had ordered them—the six boxes were similar to this one which I have brought from the shop to-day—the price to publica ns to sell again is 10s. 6d. a box—they are real British, what we call White-chapel

foreigners—we buy them in the boxes—our label is entered at Stationers' Hall—the value of the tobacco is 4s. 6d. per lb.

Cross-examined. The tobacco is British manufacture—these labels are not foreign, but the only English on them is "Ent. Sta. Hall"—a great many English cigars are sold as foreign—this "maduro" means "dark colour" and "Flor fino" means "Finest flower;" that is supposed to be Spanish—cigars like these could be bought in Hamburgh for 2s. 6d. a pound.

Cross-examined. I mean the same sized cigars, but I have never been in Hamburgh—I think any tobacconist might judge something near the price of these common cigars in London.

JOSEPH WOODWARD . I am assistant to Robert Roberts, a tobacconist, of 159, High Street, Borough—on 6th December when Lloyd came I served him with 8lb. of tobacco and six boxes of the same class of cigars as these—I put the order on the file—I have been in the trade turned 11 years—we sell these cigars at 10s. 6d. a box—they are no cheaper by taking six boxes—no money passed.

Cross-examined. We were in fact taken in by Lloyd—2l. 14s. was the price of the six boxes, and 3l. 3s. was the price charged—if cigars like these are put into my hands, I cannot say whether they are British or foreign.

Re-examined. The label is not often noticed, but if I did notice it the "Ent. Sta. Hall" would lead me to the conclusion that that was English—I have only been three or four years in that branch of the trade—I am not Mr. Roberts's buyer—I have had no experience of foreign cigars—I simply sell cigars in boxes like these—I am a salesman.

JAMES GODDARD . I keep the Hen and Chickens, Walworth Common—Lloyd was my barman; he left 16 months ago—when he was with me I was in the habit of dealing with Mr. Roberts—this order was not written by me or by my authority—the prisoner has been a customer of mine.

Cross-examined. I have known him about two years and a half, and always found him honest and respectable—he has been there about 12 months, but I was never there—I always believed him to be a clerk before that.

FRANCES FOWLER . I am the wife of Alfred Fowler, of 8, The Oval, Hackney Road—Lloyd is my nephew—he was not living with me—this letter for him came by post—I took it in and opened it—the postmark is December 9th—it is addressed, "Mr. Lloyd, 8, The Oval, Hackney Road, E.," and contained this memorandum. (This was written on the back of one of the Prisoner's shop-papers, bearing his name.) I gave it to my husband—the prisoner called the next day and asked for Mr. Lloyd—I said, "He does not live here, what do you want with him?"—he said, "I bought some cigars a little time ago, and I wrote a letter"—I said, "Yes, I received one; what do you want with him?"—he said "I want some more of the same sort"—I said, "If you have bought cigars of him don't by any more if you are a respectable tradesman, for he comes by them dishonestly"—he said, "Well, that is what I want to know, for he sold them to me too cheap"—he gave his name Mr. Voss—I said that he was my nephew.

By the JURY. I cannot say whether he said "so cheap" or too cheap."

ALFRED FOWLER . On December 9 my wife gave me this letter open with this memorandum—I afterwards gave it to Mr. Lodell, a tobacconist, near us, on account of my nephew getting a box of cigars from him, and he gave me information.

RICHARD LODELL . I am a tobacconist, of 517, Hackney Road—on December 13 I received this letter and envelope from Mr. Fowler, and the next day went with him to the prisoner's shop, 98, Old Kent Road—I said, "Are you Mr. Voss?"—he said "Yes"—I said, "I called to speak to you in regard to one Richard Lloyd; have you seen him lately?"—he said, "Not for some time?"—I said, "How long?"—after a short time he said, "Better than a week ago," hesitating; he did not seem to recollect—I said, "Have you written to Richard Lloyd lately?"—after some time he said "I have"—I produced this envelope before he gave that answer, and said, "Is this your handwriting, Mr. Voss?"—he looked at it and said "Yes"—I said, "You know the contents?"—he said "Yes"—I said, "There is no occasion for me to show you," and put it into my pocket, and said, "You have called at 8 the Oval to see Lloyd?"—he said "Yes, I called as I went to Hackney"—I said, "Give me a piece of paper," and he gave me one of the counter papers, on which I wrote my name and address—this is it: (Read: "Mr. Lodell, 417, Hackney Road, Cambridge Heath, London, 14-12-78. Re Richard Lloyd. Detain goods if he brings. Communicate as above.") I gave that to Voss, but did not tell him why I had come to his shop. (The enclosure in the letter was: "Mr. Lloyd, come and see me to-morrow, Monday, between 12 and 1 o'clock, and bring some more with you, if you have them, as I had the other day.")

Cross-examined. I did not tell him I was a tobacconist or who I was, nor did he know until I wrote the memorandum—I should take this for a London or British made cigar, but it requires a very keen judge to say whether cigars are British or foreign—they do imitate them, but not these.

Re-examined. Whether foreign or not, they are worth 10s. or 10s. 6d. a box; there would be a matter of 3d. a box according to the quantity taken.

EDMUND REED (Police-Sergeant). On January 16 I went to the prisoner's shop—he came out and spoke to me—I said, "I have sent for you; I wanted to speak to you about the cigars you bought from Lloyd"—he said, "Oh, I know"—I said, "Well, he has made a communication to the police, that he sold 6 boxes of cigars for a sovereign; I am a police-officer, and must apprehend you for receiving 6 boxes of cigars, well knowing them to be stolen"—he said, "Yes, I bought them; I did not know they were stolen; I thought he was on the boats"—on the way to the station he said, "I have known Lloyd as barman at the Hen and Chickens"—I searched his shop—I do not remember seeing any boxes like these—I had not examined one of Mr. Roberts's boxes before! went there.

Cross-examined I know Mr. Bull, a large manufacturer, of Wellington Street, Newington Causeway—he was coming to give evidence to the prisoner's character, but was severely damaged a few days ago, and is unable to come—the prisoner's is a very old-established shop, but he took it only 12 months ago—I have seen him there about 12 months, but never spoke to him.

The Prisoner received a good character.—


10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-324
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

Related Material

324. HENRY EMMS VOSS was again indicted for feloniously receiving 6 boxes of cigars, knowing them to have been stolen. Second count for harbouring Richard Lloyd, knowing him to have stolen the said goods.

MR. POLAND offered no evidence.


10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-325
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

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325. JOHN COFFEY (40) , Feloniously setting fire to the dwelling-house of Francis Preston, he and other persons being therein.

MR. KEITH FRITH , for the Prosecution, offered no evidence.


10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-326
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceMiscellaneous > sureties

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326. SARAH ANN GUERRIER (24), PLEADED GUILTY to feloniously marrying Simeon James Alman, her husband being alive. To enter into recognizances to appear when called upon ; and

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-327
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceMiscellaneous > sureties

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327. MARY ANN JACKSON (55) to unlawfully publishing a libel upon William Kirkland Bowtell.— To enter into recognizances to appear when called upon. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

Before Mr. Recorder.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-328
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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328. WILLIAM MARTIN (22) PLEADED GUILTY to burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of William Nelson Moore, and stealing therein 2 pairs of boots, a sugar basin, and other articles, having been convicted of felony in October, 1877.— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-329
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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329. GEORGE POTTEN (33) , Stealing 120 pieces of leather and 25 valise mats, the property of William Almond.

MESSRS. M. WILLIAMS and C. MATHEWS Prosecuted; and MR. STRAIGHT Defended.

WILLIAM ALMOND . I am an army accoutrement maker, of 67, Willow Walk, Bermondsey—at the end of 1877 I had a large contract with the Government for making military valises—I employed the prisoner as an outdoor hand to make them up, for which purpose he would receive some valise backs and some strips of leather called gussets—these articles (produced) are mine, they are part of 25 which were found at Baerd's; they are part of what we gave out to the prisoner to make up—they are stamped with my name before they are given out—I can positively identify 40 out of these 60 gussets found at Dear's—they had been given out to the prisoner during 1877 and the commencement of 1878—I received a communication last year from a man named Baerd, in consequence of which I Went on 17th December to the prisoner's place, 8, Romney Street, Westminster—I said "Potten, I always understood you to be an honest man, but I find you have been disposing of a great quantity of my property"—he said "It is a lie," or something to that effect, "I have not disposed of a pennyworth of your property"—I asked him if he knew a man named Baerd—he said "The only transaction I have had with Baerd was about the selling of a pony"—he also said that Baerd had recommended men to him who he believed had robbed him—Inspector Fox, who was with me, asked him if he had any objection to being confronted with Baerd—he said "No, none whatever"—Fox then went with Kimber over to Southwark Police-court—I afterwards went to Mr. Dear's, the furniture dealer, of Knightsbridge—I had a conversation with him and obtained from him this cheque (produced)—I cannot say whether the endorsement "George Potten" is the prisoner's writing—I then went back to Southwark Police-court and asked the prisoner if he had any conversation with A. and W. Dear, of Knightsbridge—he said "No, none whatever"—I asked him if he had a cheque of A. and W. Dear in his possession—he said "No"—I then showed him the endorsement on this cheque, and after a little hesitation he said "I believe Baerd gave me that cheque in payment of some money borrowed."

Cross-examined. The cheque was for 1l., dated 4th February, 1878—he said that he received the cheque from Baerd in payment of some money

Baerd owed him—I am in a very extensive way of business—there are two other firms who contract with the Government, Ross and Co. and Bryan Brothers, of Westminster—I never heard of Paul and Co. or Bramston and Co. having orders, nor do I think Jones and Co.—Peter Tait and Co. are out of existence; their place is closed—I don't know Middle-more, of Birmingham, who contracted for these things—they have to be of the regulation pattern—the stamping is done at my premises—several boys are employed—everything is not stamped before it goes out, but it is before it is delivered to the Government—Ross and others have their stamp as well—a large order had been given by Government in 1877, and I had to make between 20,000 and 30,000 of them—Ross and Co. and Bryan Bros. I believe also made them—the prisoner has worked for my firm ever since I can remember—the whole of the work was given out to him cut for sewing, and he employs men to sew them—we handed him 200 or 300—Mr. Mayor and Mr. Lovelock gave them to him—there is a book in which a record is kept of the quantities—several articles are handed to him to combine into valises, and there would be so many booked out to him—there would be the number he would have to return—he had not in his employ over a hundred persons to work for me—I am aware that he works largely for Ross and Co., and for Bryan Bros., and has done so for many years—there are not eight or ten other persons who work for me, only about four—they would take stuff out, and I employ about 100 persons indoors, sometimes more—there are only five or six boys to stamp and tie up—the various things are cut out at the warehouse, and would be lying about—I have casually looked through the articles found, they do not all bear my stamp—I speak to the gussets by the way the leather is dressed, and by the particular kind of leather, which I do not think any other manufacturer uses, and also by the rolling—I pledge my oath that they are mine—I have not been going round and making inquiries with reference to these gussets—Ross's and Bryan's use different leather entirely to what I do—there is a difference in the way they use the hides—they are split before they are dressed, and ours are not split at all—there is also a difference in the sewing; there is lock-stitch sewing and machine sewing, mine are always sewn with a lock stitch—Baerd called on me on 11th December, and left his card, but I did not see him—I had never seen him—he called again on Friday, and then I saw him, and went down to his portmanteau shop in Buckingham Street, Pimlico; from there we went first to Willis and Stone's, and from there to Mr. Dear's at Knightsbridge—he is a large portmanteau maker—when I spoke to Potten on the 17th he said "I have not sold anything of yours; I have lost too much already"—he would receive 1s. 1d. or 1s. 2d. for making up each of these valises—one man would take a little over two hours to make one—I do not know whether they are paid by the hour or by the piece—I believe they are paid so much for putting the strips on in the different parts or paid for piecemeal.

Re-examined. I find on the strips "G. and W. Almond"—Ross and Co. and Bryan and Bros, certainly do not use my stamp—these articles would never under any circumstances be sold from my premises in the City. John Baerd. I am a trunk-maker, of 7, Elizabeth Street, Eyton Square—I have known the prisoner about two years—I was at his workshop in Romney Street at Christmas, 1877, when he showed me a gusset like this before me, and said, "Can you do anything with this?"—I said, "How

much apiece?"—he said, "6d."—I said, "They are too expensive for me, they cut in waste"—I said, "I fancy at better shops they could use them, and I could sell them for you; give me a sample," and he gave me three—he said, "They are wrong cut, and they are from Government"—I took the three to Mr. Adamson, a trunk-maker in Piccadilly, and left one of them there—I then went to Mr. Dear, a trunk-maker in Knightsbridge, and leftone there, and I left one at Mr. Willis's, a trunk-maker in Sloane Street—I had a conversation with Mr. Dear, in consequence of which I went with Hudson, who works for me, to the prisoner's premises in January this yea?—I said to the prisoner, "Have you those things ready for me?"—he said, "Yes"—we had a barrow with us, which we left outside—Potten said, "There are 120 gussets and a bag full of basil pieces"—I wanted to carry them on the barrow, and Potten said, "I will take them out for you," and he carried them out and put them on the barrow, two linen sacks full—I said, "Mr. Dear says he would like to see the bulk of them"—Potten said the price was to be 6d. per lb for the basil pieces, and 6d. each for the gussets—I did not tell him how many gussets Mr. Dear wanted—I went to Mr. Dear's with a portion of the property on the truck, and left 60 gussets with him, and the basil pieces and 60 gussets at Mr. Willis's—I had a conversation with Mr. Dear as to the price, but he did not make me an offer—I did not settle the bargain with him—Potten afterwards came to my house and said, "Mr. Baerd, I want a little money"—I said, "I have been to Dear's, and he won't give me more than 4d. each for them gussets; you had better come and see Mr. Dear yourself"—I said, "He will not mind giving 6d. a pound for the other leather, only he wants to pick out the best pieces"—I went with the prisoner to Mr. Dear's at 8.30 that night, but the shop was shut—we saw the foreman, to whom I said, "Here is the man that belongs to the leather; you tell him what the governor offers me for it"—he said, "4d."—I said to the prisoner, "Now, Potton, you see you can believe me; I could not get more than 4d."—he said, "More fool you"—I said, "You can have the goods back or take the money; you please yourself," and then he said, "You had better take it"—this conversation took place at the Sun public-house, to which Dear's foreman came—on the Monday morning I went to Mr. Dear's by myself, and he gave me a cheque for 1l. for the 60 gussets at 4d.—I took the cheque to Potten's house, but did not see him—I gave it to Mrs. Potten—I took the other pieces of leather from Dear's to Willis's—Potten brought me the checque back two days afterwards, and said, "You must endorse it"—I did so, and gave it back to him—there was no other name. on the back—I do not know Potten's writing—Willis paid me 1l. 10s. in May, as I found he had sold 30 gussets at id., which makes 10s., and he also had the basil pieces, that made 1l. 10s.—I did not go near Potten for a fortnight, and then he said, "Have you any money with you?"—I said, "What do you call money?"—he said, "I am very short to-night"—I said, "I can give you a half-sovereign. By the bye, Mr. Willis has paid me 1l. 10s.; you can have it to-morrow morning. Aren't you going to liquor up?"—he said, "No, you have got all the money"—I said, "You had better send for a shilling's-worth, I will pay for it," and he paid for a shilling's-worth of liquor—we drank it, and he said, "My mother is coming home to-morrow. The old lady said, 'Good-bye,' and I said, 'God bless you.' I must give her half-a-crown"—I gave it to him, and next morning he came to my place and I paid him—Mrs. Potten came to my house next

morning, and I gave her 1l. 3s. 6d.—Willis only bought 30 gussets—I took the other 30 home and sold 12 to a man named Morris for 4s., which I kept, and the rest I used up myself—the prisoner brought me 25 valise backs in June and said, "Are they any use to you?."—I said, "No, they are no use"—he said, "You could make satchels of them"—I said, "They are more like soldiers' affairs"—he said, "When I am slack in winter, I will come and make them up for you"—my workman called my attention to the name on one of them, in December last, and I went and saw Mr. Almond, who came to my place and identified them—my name is Beard, but I am called "Baerd"—that was through a painter's error.

Cross-examined. The painter made the name Baerd outside my shop, and I took the name—that was not because I had a little fire there—I had two fires at my place, and had compensation from the insurance office, but not at the premises at which I now am—one fire was in Waterloo Road, and the other in Theobalds Road—one of my workmen named Brown called my attention to something in December, and I attended with him at' Mr. Chipperfield's, who took down Brown's statement of what he could prove—Brown left my employ last Saturday fortnight—he was in my employ then, but I have discharged him since—he was with me nearly 9 months—he was not with me in February or March, 1878, nor in May—I think he was in June—he was not present in June when Potten brought the 25 valise backs—I do not know whether Brown is here—if I had sold the bulk, I dare say Potten would have given me a little discount—I sold them for him on the chance of his giving me something—Hudson was in my employ—he left last April, I think—Brown was his successor—on the day that I gave evidence before the Magistrate against the prisoner/1 went to his house between five and six o'clock—I had charged him with this felony—I found his wife at home—I had been with Hudson before that, and left him in a public-house in Bermondsey—I had been to two public-houses with him—I did not return to Potten's house that evening, nor did I see him—I did not rejoin Hudson—I went home—I had left him in the public-house, promising to return to him—I do not know that he went to Potten's house that evening—I did not express regret to Mrs. Potten for the evidence I gave at the police-court—I did not say, "I am sorry for the evidence I gave to-day; will you forgive me?" nor anything like that—I asked her to tell Potten to come round and see me, as I thought he would come with me to Mr. Almond's next morning—I did not think that, Mr. Almond having given evidence, it would be allowed to drop—he said that he could not compound a felony, but I might do what I liked—I cannot explain myself exactly, but I did it with a good intention—I was going to take Potten round to see Mr. Almond—at the time I made my statement to Mr. Chipperfield he had taken down my evidence—I was at Potten's ten or fifteen minutes with Mrs. Potten all the time—Hudson could not have gone there within two or three minutes of my leaving him, for when I got home he was at my place—he was not at the police-court that day—I did not go to Potten's house on 17th December, the day of the first hearing—it was after the second hearing—Hudson had not been to me at the police-court—it was the day before the hearing that I went with Hudson to the public-house—I had not then been before the Magistrate—I met him at 10 a.m., and he was in my company all that day—I took him to Mr. Almond's first, and then to Mr. Chipperfield's office—when I got home I found him at my

house—I did not know that he was going to see Potten that night—in the early part of 1878 I borrowed 35s. of the prisoner—I paid it back to his niece in one sum—I think it was in September, 1877—here is the I. O. U.—I am positive that this cheque was not handed over to the prisoner's niece in part payment of that sum—her name is Burton, I think—she is married—she came and fetched it from my place, and there was no one present—neither Mrs. Perry nor Mrs. Phillips was present—I made a statement to Mr. Chipperfield before he examined me in the police-court—I did not say before the Magistrate a single word in reference to the payment of 1l. 15s. received from Willis or Mrs. Potten coming to me and my giving her 1l. 3s. 6d.—I said something about the prisoner telling me he would come in the winter, when work was slack, and work up the 25 valises, but I did not say as an inducement to buy them—I do not know one of the men in Mr. Almond's employ, or one who is employed outside—I did not know that Potten worked at Mr. Almond's—I know McGill—he never told me that he was employed there—he works for a trunk-maker—I do not know where he lives or works—he has no place of business—he is one of the outsiders.

Re-examined. One fire was sixteen years ago, and the other ten years ago—none of this leather is marked, but this other one is marked on the white stripe across the strap—they were all done up in a bundle—the mark is not on all of them.

WILLIAM ALMOND (Re-examined). I have looked at these leathers—there are fifteen here, and one handed to the Jury makes sixteen—they are all stamped with my name and sewn with lockstitch.

THOMAS HUDSON . I live at 6, Whiting Street, Waterloo Road—in January and February, 1878, I worked for Mr. Baerd, and went with him in February to the prisoner's house—I took a barrow—he went in, and the prisoner brought out two bags, and placed them outside the door, and I took them on the barrow to Piccadilly, when Baerd took them inside and brought them out again, and then we went to Mr. Dear's shop in Knights-bridge—two bundles of gussets were taken out of the smallest bag and left there—I saw some cow hides—we then went to Mr. Willis's, in Sloane Street, and left both bags there.

Cross-examined. I am a portmanteau maker, and work for my brother, but have no work at present—I last worked for him three weeks ago—I was in work when I spent the day in going to Mr. Chipperfield's office and to the public-house—I spent the whole of 23rd December in Baird's company,—we went to three or four public-houses—I was left in a public-house—I did not know that he was going to Potten's—I found my way there the same evening—I should not have gone there if I had not seen his wife standing at the door—the house faces Lambeth Bridge—I was going to Baerd's—I got to Potten's about five o'clock—I saw him at the first interview while I was waiting—I remained a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes. (Mr. Hunt was here called into Court.) I do not know that gentleman—I did not see him—I did not in his presence say in reply to the question "What is your name?" "My name is Hudson; I am the principal witness in the case to-morrow, and I can squash the whole affair if anybody will give me 2l."—I mean to pledge my oath that Mrs. Potten invited me in—she had seen me before at Baerd's three or four times when she came there in the evening during the time I was working there—I had seen Potten

once—he did not say "What do you want the money for?" nor did I say "To take me away into the country"—I was not drunk—I said before the Magistrate that I was fresh—I did not say I was not sober—I was drunk—I did not in the conversation with Potten and his wife say "I have a wife and three children," but she asked me if I had any children, and I said "Three."

Re-examined. She asked me in and said that her husband would be in in a few minutes—he came in while I was there, and said "Who is this?" and his wife said "It is Hudson"—I said "I must be off"—a pot of ale was sent for—he drank some of it and then I went away.

THOMAS MAYNE . I am foreman to Mr. Almond, and have been with the firm about twenty-six years—last year we wore making a number of military valises for Government, and the prisoner was employed to make some up—I dealt out the materials in some cases—he has had from 25 to 200 valises delivered to him at one time—a book is kept—there was a very great pressure of business at that time—goods were given out piece-meal at times, as on account of the pressure we had not sufficient material—there are four kinds of leather in each valise—they were always entered in the book, unless they were incomplete, and then they would be entered on a slate.

Cross-examined. I have not got the book with me—I do not pretend to say that there is any deficiency by the book.

Re-examined. Whether there was a deficiency or not these black ones would have the name of the firm stamped on them, but the gussets would not.

CHARLES LOVELOCK . I assist Mayne in giving out materials—they are always entered in a book which Mayne kept—the stuff would pass through my hands to the prisoner, and if he did not have the things complete the entry would be made on a slate and then in the book—supposing I gave him 100 out, they would be booked, and I should make an entry on the slate of the deficiency.

JAMES WILLIS . I am a portmanteau-maker, of 192, Sloane Street—I know Baerd—I bought some gussets from him in February or March last—they remained in my shop four or five weeks—I bought some basil pieces of him a little time before—I paid 25s. or 30s. for the whole.

HENRY CHARLES BODY . I work at Mr. Dear's, at Knightsbridge—I know Baerd—I recollect his coming there one night at 8 o'clock; he was in the shop—we came out with the foreman and went to the Sun public-house, where I saw the prisoner, but I cannot tell whether he went in with us—I had a conversation with Baerd in front of the bar—the prisoner was in the group, near enough to hear what passed; he was, I think, next to me—we were chaffing Baerd, who said that he was not going to get anything out of it; he said "There is the man," and then said to my foreman, "What does your governor say?"—my foreman said "The governor will not give more than 4d. each, because they are not worth more to him"—he did not point to anybody, he only indicated with his head—Baerd stood some drink, and the prisoner stood some afterwards.

Cross-examined. I said before the Magistrate, "I cannot say whether Potten heard what was said"—the stuff was not at the public house, nor did I see it outside—the first I saw of the man who I say was Potten was inside the public-house—I saw him next in Court—Baerd was near him and said

"There is Potten," but I knew him—the transaction at the public-house was going on 12 months ago—we were there in company about half an hour, and from then till my attention was called to it, I never thought of it again.

MATTHEW FOX (Police Inspector N). On December 17 I went with Mr. Almond to the prisoner's house—Mr. Almond informed him that he was robbing him—I said, "You hear what Mr. Almond has said; have you any objection to coming to Southwark Police-court to be confronted with Baerd?"—he said "No"—another officer accompanied him to Southwark, and I went with Mr. Almond and made further inquiries—I then returned to Southwark and saw the prisoner—I had the cheque in my hand and said, "Have you ever had any transactions with Baerd?"—he said, "I never had a transaction with him in my life"—I said, "What about the cheque?"—he said, "I never had a cheque from him in my life"—I said, "Here is a cheque with your name on"—he said "Yes, I received that in payment of a debt."

Cross-examined. He said, "In payment of some money I lent him," or something to that effect.

Witnesses for the Defence.

ELIZA PERRY . I am the wife of Joseph Perry, an ostler, of 139, Regent Street, Lambeth Walk—I work for Mr. Potten—about the beginning of March last year I was sitting at work and heard Mr. Baerd come in—I turned round and saw him—he said "Good evening, Mr. Potten, this is 1l. off what I owe you, and the other 15s. I will give you as soon as possible"—I did not see what was given—Mr. Phillips was there.

Cross-examined. Mr. Phillips came to fetch some work out, and I was the only other person in the room—I did not see what passed—I am sure the other sum he was to pay was 15s.—1l. 15l. was mentioned, and the cheque was for 1l.—I have mentioned a cheque—I heard him say, 'Here is a cheque for 1l.? the other 15s. will be paid as soon as possible"—I did not see the cheque—I was not called before the Magistrate; this is the first time I have given evidence—nobody asked me to come here, I came of myself, but I did not think I should be called—as soon as I heard of the case I went to Mr. Potten to get some work out, and I said, "I remember Mr. Baerd coming with the cheque"—Mrs. Potten was not present when the cheque was brought—I have no reason for fixing the date, but I know I was at work at Mr. Potten's at the time—Mr. Phillips was standing, and he saw the cheque, but I was sitting—I have not asked Phillips whether he saw the cheque, nor has he told me so, but he was standing with his face to, Potten and Baerd, close to them—the conversation was in the back parlour, which is a workshop.

WILLIAM PHILLIPS . I am a trunk and portmanteau maker—early last year I was in Mr. Potten's employ—I know Mr. Baird; he came to Mr. Potten's frequently—Mrs. Perry was employed there—about the end of September or the beginning of March—it was either September or February—I should have said the latter end of February or the beginning of March—when Baerd handed the cheque he said that business was very bad and that was all he could pay him at present.

Cross-examined. Several workpeople were there, waiting for work the same as myself—his words were, "Here is 1l. off what I owe him"—Potten said, "What is that?"—Baerd said, "A 1l. cheque"—Potten said he was rather surprised; he did not know such things were in existence as 1l.

cheques—Baerd said that that was all he could pay him off the 1l. 15s. he owed him, and he had had a great deal of trouble to get that, as business was so bad—this was in Mr. Potten's house, at the end of the passage, not in the workshop but outside the workshop; the work is given out over a bar, and Potten was giving it out—Baerd was standing in the passage, and he handed the cheque in like that.

The Prisoner received a good character.

GUILTY. Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor and Jury .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-330
VerdictMiscellaneous > unfit to plead
SentenceImprisonment > insanity

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330. In the case of JEREMIAH O'NEIL (37) , indicted for arson , the Jury, upon the evidence of MR. JOHN ROLAND GIBBSON, Surgeon of Newgate, found the Prisoner of unsound mind and unable to plead .— Ordered to be detained till Her Majesty's pleasure be known.


Before Mr. Justice Hawkins.

10th February 1879
Reference Numbert18790210-331
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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331. JAMES MATTHEWS (53) , Feloniously setting fire to a stack of straw, the property of James Way the younger.


In this case (tried on Monday, February 10th) the Jury, being unable to agree, were discharged without giving any verdict. The Prisoner was subsequently tried again before another Jury on Monday, February 17th, when MR. SIMMS REEVES and MR. DR. GREY Prosecuted, and MR. FULTON and MR. HORACE AVORY Defended, and the following evidence was given.

FREDERICK FRYER . I reside at Leverington, and am a schoolmaster and surveyor—I made this plan (produced) and these two tracings at a scale of 8 chains to the inch; the distances marked in the corner are correct.

Cross-examined. I have been over the whole district and surveyed it—Pulley Lane is a grass lane, not a gravelled road—it was not full of deep ruts when I measured it; there' were no ruts at that time—there are no hedges; there are deep ditches about 3 yards wide on each side of the lane and the roads—there is a farmhouse about 200 yards beyond where the fire happened, on the right-hand side going across the field, along Poplar Drove; it is not marked on the plan—the farmer does not live on the premises; a farming man does—it is occupied by Mr. John Smith—from outside the Butchers' Arms, looking straight down Parson Drove, the street is as straight as an arrow—on each side of Parson Drove Street for some little distance there are some trees.

JACOB SCOULAR . I am a labourer living at Tit St. Giles—on Saturday, 19th October, I was in the field where the fire was—I saw the drum and the straw; the drum was standing about 4 yards from the stack of mustard straw; it was a great lump of straw, it was not particularly a stack—there had been threshing going on there for two days before, and it was finished at 12.30 on Saturday—the theshing had been done with the prisoner's machine—the elevator was not there—I saw the engine there, that was taken away about 12.30; it was drawn out by horses—there was no road from the stack into the road, only what was left unploughed; it was an unploughed piece of the field—there was a road left straight up to the headland, and then from the headland up to the gate—there was a man

there named Joseph Hill who had been feeding the machine—I saw the prisoner there that day, and heard Hill say to him "What are you going to do with the old drum, are you going to pull her out of the way?"—Mr. Matthews said "No, it don't matter about her, I shall have her away on Monday morning"—I was about 6 yards from the drum at this time—I did not notice whether there was any straw under the drum at that time or not—I did not notice whether the shafts were on.

Cross-examined. I was engaged for Mr. Dearlove during the whole of the thrashing—it began on the Thursday morning between 9 and 10 o'clock; they left off about 4 o'clock that afternoon; they broke a riddle—I don't know what time they worked on the Friday, I should say they began about 7.20, and left off a few minutes after 5 o'clock, as near as I can tell—before beginning work they would of course have to get up the steam—on Saturday we left off about 12.30; I believe they were done—I don't know how Mr. Matthews's men were paid—our men make half days and three-quarters—cloths are used in threshing, to lay under the machine to catch the waste seed—it is not always the custom in a mustard field to place straw under the machine on which to place the cloths; the object of putting the straw is to keep the cloths from the wet—I have threshed hundreds of days without straw, and hundreds of days I have had to put a great lot under—I will not take my oath that there was not straw under there on the Saturday, or that there had not been for the three days.

Re-examined. I would not pledge my oath one way or the other whether there was or was not straw—you can crawl very well under the axle of the machine and the blower—the blower comes rather lower than the axle—the riddle of the drum broke some time between 3 and 4 o'clock on the Friday; that entailed a loss of time—I don't know whether the men got paid for their time notwithstanding that—Mr. Dearlove had five men at work the first day; I can't say how many Mr. Matthews had, I should say seven, perhaps he might have eight, I did not count them—15 or 16 in all were employed about the threshing after the first day; out of that number I should say Mr. Matthews employed eight or nine after the first days.

By the COURT. There were seven or eight loads of straw altogether, as near as' I could tell; there might be another load or two.

JAMES BRIUGEFOOT . I live at Leverington, Parson Drove, and am a builder—I know the prisoner, and know his pony and cart—I saw him on Sunday night, 20th October, about 7.15, about 20 yards or so against the flour-mill and Clowes Cross; it was between the mill and Clowes, Cross, near the mill—I was within about 14 or 15 yards of him—I am sure it was him—he went towards Clowes Cross—the pony was trotting, and he was in the cart.

Cross-examined. I know this district middling well—I could not say how far the place was where I saw him from the fire—I have been that way so very little—I have been a time or two that way—I should say it was all three miles.

THOMAS HOLMES . I am a farmer, living at Leverington, Parson Drove—I know Bird's Drove—on Sunday night, 20th October, after sunset, I was there—I should think it was about 7.15 or 7.20, as near as I could say—I heard the noise of a cart down at Poplar Drove—the cart came up to where I was in Bird's Drove, and passed close to me—the prisoner was in the cart—I knew him before, and have known him several

years, and I know his pony and cart—the pony was going about 6 or 7 miles an hour—it was not going anyway fast as it appeared to me—it went in the direction of May's Bridge, and turned to the right down High Side—his nearest way home was by Pulley Lane—he did not go that way; he went towards Grigg's House—there was nobody in the cart with him—when he passed me he sat stooping forwards, not as he usually gits as he drives—I believe I have seen him drive several times before—I am quite sure he was the man.

By the COURT. I was about 150 yards from May's Bridge, I should think, when I first heard a pony in Poplar Drove—it was starlight—I did not see the pony and cart turn into Bird's Drove from Poplar Drove—I could tell by the sound when it turned the corner from Poplar Drove into Bird's Drove—I should not think I had heard it 5 minutes before I heard it turn into Bird's Drove; 5 would be the outside—I believe I had heard it pretty nearly that time coming from the direction where the fire took place—I was going towards May's Bridge—I had been down to Mr. Gray's field taking the cows down—that would be about 150 yards from May's Bridge—I had not gone out of Bird's Drove—I had not seen anybody besides the prisoner and his horse and cart—I had not seen or heard anybody else about the road neither driving nor walking—I did not meet or see any one—I did not speak to the prisoner—I know him well enough to speak to him—some-times when I meet him I pass the time of day, sometimes I don't—neither of us passed the time of day when he passed me that night—I can't say whether he saw me or not.

FREDERICK FRYER (Re-examined). The place where Bridgefoot met the prisoner is 3 miles, 4 furlongs, and 65 yards to the gate of the field from where the fire was; and the distance from that gate to where Bridgefoot met him and back to May's Bridge is 4 miles, 4 furlongs, 47 yards—from May's Bridge to the gate of the field where the fire occurred is 7 furlongs, 202 yards; and from where Bridgefoot met him to the gate of the field and back to May's Bridge and on to Grigg's is 6 miles, 2 furlongs, 80 yards—if he bad continued by Parson Drove, gone over May's Bridge into Bird's Drove, that would have been considerably shorter; but I have not worked that out yet, I will do so.

JOHN GRIGGS . I am a farmer at Leverington—on Sunday, 20th October, at half-past 7,1 saw the prisoner—he came to my house that is at Turnover Bank, although I never heard that name before—I believe he was driving; he stayed till about 10 minutes or a quarter to 8—I could not tell to a minute when he went away—he came in a pony and cart—when he first came in he asked if I would fetch his machine from Church End—I said no, I would not fetch it a yard—he wanted me to fetch it on the following Wednesday—Church End is at Parson Drove.

HENRY GRIGGS . I am the son of the last witness—on the night this fire happened I went to Harold's Chapel, and came out of chapel about 8 o'clock as nigh as I can guess—I saw Mr. Matthews when I came out—he was driving his pony towards his own house; that would be by Ellow Bank.

JOSEPH NATHAN . I am an engine driver, living at Parson Drove—I know the prisoner—on Sunday evening, 20th October, about 8 o'clock, I was at the Butchers' Anns, Parson Drove—I did not see the prisoner drive up in his pony and cart—I saw him in the house—he stayed there, I should think, about 10 minutes—he had some refreshment—I saw him drive away with

his pony and cart alone, in the direction of his own house—that is not quite a quarter of a mile from the Butchers' Arms—it is a couple of miles or more from Harold's Chapel to the Butchers' Arms—I know his pony; I don't know whether it is a good one to go; I hare never rode behind it; I have seen it go a very fair stroke, not out of the way fast; 10 miles an hour, I should say.

Cross-examined. I did not come out of the Butchers' Arms with him at 8 o'clock; it was about 10 minutes past 8—I was not outside when he came out; I came out just after him—I don't know the field where this stack was set fire to—going down the road from the Butchers' Arms it is a straight line to the fire—I saw no fire at 10 minutes past 8—I walked towards my own home; that is the opposite way from the fire—I live about a quarter of a mile from the Butchers' Arms—I went straight home, I only stopped when they shouted "Fire"—it was about half-past 8 when I saw the fire.

Re-examined. There was a good blaze when I saw it—I did not see it until my attention was called to it by other people—I carry a watch; it was about half-past 8 when I saw the fire—I went back into the house after the prisoner left—I stayed in the house about 20 minutes, and I walked a few yards, about 150, when I saw the fire—I was walking away from the fire when my attention was called to it by somebody shouting.

SAMUEL CLARK . I live at Leverington, Parson Drove, and work for my father, who has a machine—on Sunday evening, 20th October, my attention was called to the fire—I saw it—I was at a village called Gorfield, about two miles off, when I first saw it—that is to the north of the fire, towards Wisbeach—it was about a few minutes past eight when I first saw it, to the best of my belief from five to eight minutes past—I did not look at my watch—it was a wonderful large blaze—I ran to the fire—I should think I must have been about twenty minutes in getting to it—I was not the first who got there—I think one had been there, and gone away again—when I got there the straw was on fire—a good deal of it was burnt, and ultimately all the straw was burnt—the drum was right close to the straw stack—the shafts were on the drum, and the straw was burning between the shafts—the shafts were wonderful hot—I and others took the shafts of the machine—there was a good deal of straw between the shafts—I should think it was piled about four or five feet from the ground—it was above the shafts, at the end of them—the shafts were shoved underneath the straw, the straw laid on the shafts—the tops of the shafts were touching the ground—there was straw underneath the bottom of the drum that had not caught fire—the straw that was on fire was between the shafts—we got some forks and cleared it all away—it was blazing, and wonderful hot.

Cross-examined. It depends upon what sort of land you are on, whether you place straw under the machine when threshing, whether it is lowland or highland—it is not all lowland there, it is flat, but some of it is wonderful wet, and some dry—the whole district about there is perfectly flat, but it is well drained—there are several hedges in some parts—there are no hedges between where I caught sight of the fire and the fire itself—there are very few trees—I am the son of a machine-man—the coals are generally supplied by the farmer on whose land it is—we do not want any horses there, we take ours by steam—we are forced to have a traction engine, because the farmer objects to supply horse-power—some of the men who work the machine get 3s. 6d. and some 3s. a day—I don't know what

Mr. Matthews pays his men—about seven men are usually employed at a machine.

Re-examined. We thresh anyhow, for what we can get—it depends on the size of the farm a good deal—when we thresh by time, we charge 3l. 10s. per day for the engine, the drum, and the elevator—for that we mostly supply seven men and myself—I Pget 4s. 6d. a day for my time, another man would get 4s., and the rest 3s. 10d.—the farmer finds the coals.

WILLIAM SKEELS . I am a farmer at Leverington—I saw the fire—I was in my own house at the time, which is about half a mile from the fire—it was from 10 minutes to a quarter past 8; it was a full blaze then—I went to the fire as quick as I could; when I got there the stack was burning—I saw the drum, it was standing against the fire—the shafts were on—there was straw blazing between the shafts, and they were as hot as we could handle them to get them off—I helped to get them off—there was some loose straw scattered under the body of the drum—I could not say how high it was from the ground—I did not take a deal of notice of it—it was touching the shafts—there was straw underneath, and it touched the machine.

Cross-examined. Before the Magistrate I said "I saw the fire directly, it was in a blaze, "that is what I mean—my house is half a mile from the fire, as near as I can guess, there is very little difference by the road or across the fields—I know the district well—Bird's Drove is not a grass lane; it is not a turnpike road; it is a country road; it leads from one parish to another.

Re-examined. There are stones on the road in the middle, and grass at the side—the fire seemed all of a blaze when I first saw it.

SAMUEL CLARKE (Re-examined by the Court). The drum is made of wood and iron; the bottom of it is wood; it is about 41/2 feet wide, and about 14 feet long—I should think there would be about 9 or 10 inches of straw under the drum—that would be about 6 inches from the body of the bottom of the drum, all underneath—there was straw all round the drum, and underneath—it would take three horses to pull the drum away—I noticed the roadway along which the engine would be taken—I should think it was 14 or 15 feet in breadth; that was left unploughed—there would be no difficulty in driving along that road in a cart; it was as hard as a gravel road—I should think the machine was about 100 yards inside the field—the road I speak of extended from the gate right up to the drum—I went into the field across the ground, and came out of the gate; it was not locked—I did not see a water-tub while I was there; there was no tub near the machine—a tub would be used with the engine—I got the forks out of the machine, but I saw no tub there.

JOSEPH WEEDON . I am a police-officer stationed at Parson Drove—on the night of the fire I went to Matthew's house, about 11 o'clock—I called him up, and asked him if he knew there had been a fire that night—he said "No, where?"—I said "On Mr. Dearlove's land on Leverington Common"—he said he did not know anything about it—I said "Have you got a machine at the fire"—he said "Yes," and asked me if it was burnt—I said "No, it would have been only for some men that were there in time to save it"—he said "Thank God"—I then left—the day after the fire he came to me when I was working in my garden at Parson Drove, about 10 a.m.; he said "I say, what time was the fire last night?—I said "About 8.15 p.m. when I saw it, I was at Munay at the time"—he said "I knew nothing about

it till you called me up last night"—I said "You were very lucky that your machine was not burnt"—he said "I was, for it is not insured, and I am now going to Wisbeach to insure it"—I afterwards showed William Larrington the machine which was in the field at the time of the fire—I was at the fire, and saw the machine there; it was the same I pointed out to Larrington—I know the machine—I have kept my eye on it since the fire—I know it has been worked three days since the fire by myself—I do not know whether it has been worked more.

Cross-examined. I was not examined on the first occasion before the Magistrate on 9th November, when the summons was dismissed—there was one occasion when I was not called as a witness—I was there on one occasion when it was dismissed, but I was not examined—I am under Sergeant Wright—I subpœnaed a man named White and a man named Brown to give evidence—I believe they were in attendance when the first summons was dismissed—I believe they were in attendance on the 2nd and 7th Dec.—they were not called—I do not know why not—I do not know that on the first day of the second summons Mr. Matthews was allowed to go out without bail and without recognisances—I can't remember that the Magistrate said he did not require bail—I believe Mr. Matthews has got three machines and, I believe, two engines; one of them is a traction engine—when I went to him on the night of the fire he was not in bed, he was standing at his window; I don't know whether he was dressed, I could not see that—he answered me from the upstairs window; I can't say whether that was the window of his bed-room, I don't know where he sleeps—I don't know whether he sleeps down-stairs or upstairs, I never took that much notice; I did not ask him the question—I knocked at the door, and in answer the upstairs window was opened—I could not see whether he had any clothes on except his night-shirt, it was dark—it is a cottage, one story high—I cannot swear that he has not five engines—I believe he has three, I am not sure that he has more; I have never seen five.

Re-examined. My attention has been mainly directed to the machine that was nearly burnt—on the first occasion before the Magistrate no professional gentleman was employed on behalf of the prosecution—a solicitor appeared for the defence.

THOMAS WAY, JUNIOR . I am a farmer at Wisbeach St. Mary—I have a piece of land at Leverington, which I hire of Mr. Dearlove—I entered into possession of that land on 30th September last—the preceding crop belonged to my landlord—the field in which this stack was was 16 acres—there were four stacks on it, which were threshed on the 17th, 18th, and 19th—this was the last of the four; it took two days and a half to thresh the four stacks—the straw was given to me by my landlord; it was really my straw—I should think there were 10 or 12 waggon loads in the stack that was burnt; it would make a good big lump, I valued it at 5 or 6 sovereigns—I saw the fire between 8.30 and 8.45 when I looked out at the door—I was at a distance—I did not know that the fire was on my own ground—I did not go to it—I heard the first thing in the morning that it was my straw that was burnt—while I was there the prisoner came there; that was about 10 in the morning—I said to him, "This is a funny thing about this fire, the straw to be burnt and your drum saved"—he replied, "I think I am one of the most fortunate persons in the world, as I was not insured; I was ill yesterday afternoon, and went to bed between 6 and 7, and knew nothing of the fire

until the police-constable called me up about 11 o'clock at night"—he also said again that he was not insured for that drum, neither for a new tractionengine; he said he had two sets insured—a set consists of an engine, a drum, and a jack-straw or elevator—next day when I went there I saw a water-tub in his cart that he was riding in; he was then in the ground where the fire was—he was there before me; he might have taken up the tub that morning—I can't tell how long he had been there before I got to the ground—it is 189 or 198 yards from Poplar Drove Gate to the stack, but I did not go in at that gate, I went in at Mill Lane gate—I can't tell you how far that is from the stack, it is near 400 yards—Poplar Drove runs on one side of the field and Mill Lane on the other—I did not notice the prisoner till he came up the ground—I know the roadway from the stack to Poplar Drove—there was a headland of ground left; there was nothing to prevent the cart going over it—on the first occasion before the Magistrate I was not represented by a professional man; the case was then dismissed—after it was dismissed I got a letter from Mr. Sidney Ollard, who appeared for the prisoner; this is the letter. (Read: "November 11th, 1878. Sir,—I am instructed by Mr. James Matthews, of Parson Drove, to apply to you with reference to the serious charge preferred by you against him, namely, that of setting fire to your mustard straw, such charge being wholly false and unfounded As Mr. Matthews has, through your unjustifiable proceedings in the matter, suffered great anguish of mind, and been put to considerable expense, I am instructed by him to inform you that unless you do, on or before Thursday next, fully apologise to him for your conduct and pay 50l. damages, legal proceedings for substantial damages will be forthwith commenced against you, without further notice. Yours, &c., Sidney Ollard.") On getting that letter I went to my solicitor, Mr. Jackson, the Clerk to the Magistrates; he could not act because he was Clerk to the Magistrates, and I went to Mr. Wilkin and put the case in his hands—he had the conduct of the case before the Magistrates—a great number of fresh witnesses were called.

Cross-examined. I was rather dissatisfied on the first occasion—I should not have gone to my solicitor to ask his advice if I had not had that letter—I had fresh evidence—the fresh evidence was forthcoming before I went to my solicitor—we got some fresh evidence on the receipt of that letter—I was present at a time when the mustard was being threshed—there was no elevator used on that occasion—the elevator is used to put the straw on to the waggons, or stack, or anything—the straw was not scattered, it was all put up; it takes more ground to put it on when there is no elevator—it was on the Monday morning when I saw the prisoner there in his cart, and the tub was then in his cart—I say the straw is worth between 5 and 6 sovereigns; it is not worthless; it was given in exchange for other straw—it is not as combustible as other straw; it burns very quickly when once it is set fire to, as quick as any other straw—I did not complain of the straw being thrown about On the Thursday or Friday; I said they ought to have had an elevator there to put it on waggons as quick as they threshed it.

THOMAS FLANDERS . I am a labourer, living at Parson Drove—I saw the prisoner on the Monday, the day after the fire at Wilson's yard, at Parson Drove, between 9 and 10 in the day—he said he was in bed between 6 and 7 o'clock on the night of the fire—I can't say how he came to say that—I did not hear anybody speak to him first—we were all there at the time.

Cross-examined. This took place in Mr. Wilson's yard, we were threshing there; 7 men were employed there belonging to the machine on the Monday morning—I was not at work on Mr. Dearlove's field when the mustard was threshed—I do not know how many men were employed there—we were standing round the machine eating our luncheon when this observation was made—there were 7 of us—William Lawson was there; I can't say that he heard what was said; I can't say how far off he was from where we were standing, whether it was one yard, or 2, or 50, I never measured it; I could see him; I could not touch him—I can't say how far off he was, or whether he could have heard or not—I can't say whether it was said in reply to any question—I can't say what made him say it—no question was put to him that I know of.

Re-examided. I can't say how many persons there were in the yard at the time, there were seven belonging to the machine—Lawson and Digghin were there—I can't say to a yard or two how near I was to Mr. Matthews; I should say twenty yards as near as I can tell.

JOHN WRIGHT . I am a sergeant in the Isle of Ely police—I have been twenty-four years in the force, and twenty-one years a sergeant—my attention was called to the fire—on the night of the fire, from 8.5 o'clock to 8.10 o'clock. I was four or five miles off—I went to it—when I got there it was burnt down—it was about 10.10 o'clock when I got to the fire—Weedon had just left, as I understood—it was not by my direction that he went—I saw the machine there—I saw there had been straw burnt very close to the machine—on the following day I was also on the ground where the fire was—the prisoner came there while I was there, about five minutes after me—about 9.30 a.m.—he spoke to me first—he said "Morning, Mr. Wright"—. I said "Morning, Mr. Matthews"—he knew me quite well—he said "I think I am one of the luckiest men that ever lived"—I said "How is that?"—he said "For this machine to be saved"—I said "I don't think so; if the old machine had been burnt no doubt you would have got a new one in its place"—I knew about the two other machines being burnt, which were insured—he said "I am not insured for one halfpenny; if that had been burnt it would have been 100l. out of my pocket"—I said "Are you sure you are not insured for it?"—he said "I am"—I said "How many machines and engines did you insure for, then?"—he said "Two sets"—I said "Two sets, I believe, is two engines and two machines"—he said "It is; I was very unwell in the afternoon, and could not go to church in the evening, and I was in bed before 8 o'clock"—the machine that was nearly burnt was a Clayton and Shuttleworth machine—on 29th November I showed that machine to Mr. Davey, and Mr. Good, from Clayton and Shuttleworth's, has also seen it—it was shown to him by Mr. Redding, the superintendent—at the time I had this conversation with the prisoner I was beginning to make my investigation—it is my duty to make inquiry when fires take place in our neighbourhood—this was the first step I took—at that time I had not got evidence against anybody—it was my duty to inquire of anybody who had property against the stack if they were insured—neither of the former fires took place in my district.

Cross-eramined. The fires in 1871 and 1873 were rumoured about the country—I believed at the time I saw the prisoner that this fire was not an accidental one—of course I could not say to a certainty—I believed at the

time that it had been set fire to by some one; not by Matthews, I swear that—I have said that I believed it had been set fire to—I don't remember that I have said it was set fire to either by Matthews or some one by his orders—I don't remember saying so last Monday—if I had known that the machine was insured I might then have believed it was either him or some one by his orders—when he said "I think I am one of the luckiest men that ever lived, "I said "How is that 1"—he said "For the machine to be saved"—I said "I don't think so, for I think you are unlucky in that respect"—he said "Why, what do you mean?"—I said "If the old machine had been burnt you would have got a new one in the place of it, and there is no doubt that was the intention"—I believed at that time that it was done by some one with that intention—I did not say your intention, I said the intention—very often the engine drivers dislike an old machine, and they might have done it, I could not say, one of his men might have done it—I said before the Magistrate "If I had known the machine had been insured I should have thought the straw hail been set fire on purpose to get the insurance money, "but he told me he was not insured—I said that I made the observation that I thought he was unlucky, for the purpose of ascertaining whether he was insured or not—I wished to know whether he was insured—I did not think at the time that he was the man that had set fire to it—I could not suspect the man, because he said he was not insured—I knew that setting fire to straw was a very serious charge—I had no idea at that time that a charge would be made against him—I should not have said what I did to him had I had a warrant to apprehend him on the charge—I knew that if a charge was made against him the conversation I bad with him would be given in evidence, at least I might have supposed so—I believe the second summons was heard about Saturday, 30th Nov., and it was adjourned to the following Saturday—bail was asked for and granted—I believe the prisoner went out without bail or recognisances—I know there were several witnesses to be examined who were not examined—a Mr. Brown, a farmer, was subpœnaed as a witness in the case, and a Mr. White—they were in attendance on 9th and 30th November and 7th December, but were never called—I do not know why the prosecution did not call them, they had their names—I don't remember that I was shown a diary by Mr. Brown. (Book produced)—I do not remember seeing this, to the best of my recollection and belief I have never seen it before.

Re-examined. Mr. Brown is here—when a solicitor conducts a prosecution I believe it is the custom to call what witnesses he pleases—that was what ho did do here.

JOHN HOLMES . I am a farmer, living at Leverington—on the morning of the fire I went on the ground where the fire happened—Police-constable Wright came shortly afterwards—I heard the conversation between him and Matthews—I saw Matthews drive into the field—when he drove up he said to me, "I think I must be a very lucky man"—he walked up to where the drum was, and looking into it, said "I think I am one of the luckiest men in the world; to think that the barn should be burnt and the machine should not be burnt"—then Sergeant Wright said "Do you mean unlucky?"—Matthews said "What do you mean by that?"—he said "I suppose if the machine had been burnt you would have got a new one for it"—Matthews said "It would have been 100l. out of my Way, "and

Wright said "Is not this drum insured?"—Matthews replied "Not for one halfpenny"—Wright said "Haven't you any of your machines insured?"—Matthews said "Yes, two sets"—Matthews asked me then if I knew who took the straw away from the machine on the Sunday night from between the shafts—I said "I don't know, only from what I heard my neighbour Skeels say, that the straw had just caught light between the shafts, and the shafts were as warm as they could just handle them"—I said "I went to bed that night about 7 o'clock, "and Matthews replied "I was not well, I would not go to church, and I went to bed a little before 8"—he asked me if I knew who put the shafts on.

Cross-examined. I was there with Wright when Matthews drove up—I have no recollection of saying before the Magistrate that Matthews used the words "Who prevented the machine from getting on fire?"—I can read very little—I can just sign my name—I could not read my deposition—he might have said so, I don't recollect it now—I know he asked me if I knew who had cleared the straw away—I suggested to him that perhaps it had been set on fire to spite him—I have no ill-feeling against him.

WILLIAM HIDE . My father keeps the Ship Hotel, at Wisbeach, and I live there—I remember Matthews coming there on the Tuesday after the first hearing of his case—that would be the 12th November—he asked me what I thought about his case on Saturday—I told him I did not know much about it—I heard of it and that was all—he said "Damned scamps, I'll make them pay for it, that I will; as true as God's in heaven above I was so ill I never moved out of my house that night."

THOMAS DEARLOVE . I am an owner of land and a farmer living at Tit St. Giles, near Wisbeach—on the 25th September last I let a piece of land at Leverington to Mr. Way—he took possession on the 30th—I was to thresh the mustard and to have the seed, and to give him the straw—on the Monday morning, the day after the fire, I went to the spot in the course of the afternoon—I saw Matthews in the field, and spoke to him—it was about 11—he drove up to my trap, and said "This is a bad job, sir; I have no doubt it was done by some one who had something against me, as I am not insured for this, "meaning the machine—on Wednesday, 6th November, I saw "him at the Rose and Crown, Wisbeach—about 12 o'clock in the morning—he saw me coming in, and followed me—he said "I should like to have a little private conversation with you—he was on foot—that is the principal inn in the place—I took him into a private room—we were quite alone—he said "Your tenant, Mr. Way, has prosecuted me"—I said "I have no doubt it is right, as the police tell me they suspect you"—there had been a good deal of talk about it in the neighbourhood—the summons had been out some days, and the hearing was coming on the day after this conversation—he said "I am innocent. I certainly was in the neighbourhood that night, and I bethought myself of a water-tub which was left"—he said "I was driving in my cart, and I thought I would fetch it; but when I got near the field I thought the ploughed land would be too heavy for me to go over, and as I was leaving the field I saw a man whom I afterwards heard was Thomas Holmes, but I could not swear to him"—he said he went to John Griggs after that—I had no agreement with Matthews for threshing the mustard—I had never grown mustard before, but I suppose I should pay about 3l. a day—that would include engine, time, and everything but coals.

Cross-examined. There were 16 acres of mustard. I had agreed with him

at 10s. an acre for other crops—at this rate I should have paid him 8l. for the 16 acres—mustard being more difficult to thresh, I should have paid him more—he finds the men for the threshing—I do not know how many he had employed on this occasion—I provide the horses to bring the machine upon the ground—they hired the horses to take it away—I left that to Matthews—I make no deduction for bringing the machine—no elevator was used—I do not know why—I thought there was going to be one used—the water-tub was there—I don't know if it is usually taken away with the elevator—it would be more convenient—it would not be taken with the engine—it is not usual, I think—the busy time for threshing at this time of the year is from September to Christmas—I did not stack for stock in the same field—all the corn threshed for me was put down at 10s. an acre—I had no need to employ Matthews to thresh all my corn—I have no means of knowing how many acres he threshed—I did continue to employ him after the 9th November, when the first summons was heard—I have continued to employ him up to the present time—I do not know what time he began threshing on the Thursday—at the police-court I stated that Matthews said "I certainly was in the neighbourhood that night, I was driving not far from the field, and I remembered my water-tub, and I drove down, thinking I would fetch it: I altered my mind before I got to the field, and thought I would go on to Griggs'"—because he thought the ploughed would be too heavy—he said as he had got the other side of the field he met a man—I said before the Magistrates that he said "I saw as I came away a man, whom I afterwards found out to be Thomas Holmes"—this, was my own field, and I had purposely left this headland unploughed—I had let the land to Mr. Way.

Re-examined. Like other landlords, I usually let my tenants do the ploughing—we are in communication with Lincoln, and we could have got a new engine in three days.

AMBROSE GROUNDS . I am an auctioneer, living at March, Cambridge—I had a brother who gave up farming in June, 1870, and went out to New Zealand—prior to June, 1870, I sold the prisoner an engine, a drum, and, I believe, an elevator for 70l. belonging to my brother, who had had them four or five years, and somebody had had them four or five years before that—I know William Langton.

Cross-examined. My brother had only one machine; I am quite sure I sold an engine; I said so before the Magistrate—I said "I remember selling a threshing machine and a drum, and, I believe, an elevator"—I meant an engine and drum; they were sold by auction to the highest bidder, and they wore ultimately knocked down to Matthews—a new driving strap would cost 6l. or 7l.—I cannot tell you what other straps there were, but they were worth about 20l.; I cannot tell you the value of new cloths.

WILLIAM BARRINGTON . I am an engine fitter of March—I know the machine which was sold by Mr. Grounds to the prisoner—I have known it for 21 years; I have worked it and done repairs to it—it was the same machine which Weedon pointed out to me in the field where the fire took place—it was made by Clayton and Shuttleworth—I have seen my work and repairs on it, which were done 13 or 14 years ago.

Cross-examined. I know something about the working of machines and engines—I don't know which wears out the quickest, machine or the engine,

but several parts of the machine work out quicker than the engine—I think an engine will last longer than a machine.

WILLIAM LAWSON . I have been an engine driver in Mr. Murphy's service for 11 years—he had three drums last year; Clayton and Shuttleworth made one of them—I expect it was the one that was by the mustard straw stack, but was not there—I did not go to the ground next day; I was never there in my life—I think Mr. Foster made the other two engines; I know his traveler—my master has had Clayton and Shuttleworth's engine about eight or nine years.

Cross-examined. Matthews is a practical mechanic—he understands the working of machines; he altered this machine from a finished machine to a machine for threshing beans and mustard, and such like—he has altered it several times, and made improvements in it—I was in Mr. Wilson's yard on 21st October, when we were standing round the machine taking our lunch; Flanders was there—I may have been as far from Matthews as I am from you now, and part of the time not so far—I did not hear him say that he was in bed between 6 and 7 o'clock; I heard him say that he was in bed between 10 and 11 o'clock.

Re-examined. He spoke to us all; I don't know who spoke previously to that—he said to all of us that when the policeman came to call him between 10 and 11 o'clock he was in bed—I cannot tell you what led up to the remark—I cannot tell you all the conversation; I have not a very good memory, and my attention was not fixed upon what Mr. Matthews said.

By the COURT. I am sure he said between 10 and 11 o'clock; I was examined last week, but did not mention anything about it, because I was not asked—I was not asked about it to-day, but it has just jumped into my head.

JAMES GOODE . I have been machine superintendent to Messrs. Shuttle-worth about a year—the superintendent at. Reading showed me a threshing machine made by Clayton and Shuttleworth, which was over 20 years old—I know that by the number on it, No. 717—in the state it was in when I saw it it was worth about 10l.; the price of a new one would be 150l.—we keep them in stock—the old ones get very much out of repair after so many years, which causes considerable loss of time—I have never seen the machine at work—I think it is only fit to be broken up: I mean that it is worth 10l. to be broken up.

Re-examined. I do not think it would fetch 10l. if put up to auction.

By the COURT. If any one were to say "I want to sell that machine "I would offer 10l. for it, selling it in the same place where they could use it—I have machines as good as that which I am willing to sell for 10l.

AMBROSE GROUNDS (Re-examined). There was no date on the machine, the number was on the royalty plate—there was a name but no date—the royalty plate was oval, it had on it "Good's Patent Shakers."

JAMES BOLDING . I was agent to the Union Fire Office, but am not now—I know the prisoner, he lived at Parson Drove, 12 miles from Upworth—in 1870 he insured a Clayton and Shuttleworth engine and threshing machine with me—after he tendered the insurance I wrote this letter, sent it to him by post, and afterwards received it back. (This stated that Clayton and Shuttleworth invariably numbered their machines, and requested the prisoner to search for the number.) He called on me with' the letter a few days afterwards, pointed out to me this oval in pencil, with

writing on it, and said that that was the only means of identification. (The writing was "By Royal Patent, Clayton, Shuttleworth, and Co., Lincoln.") He said that that was the only mark on it, and I then insured it for 120l.—that was the only Clayton and Shuttleworth drum I then insured for him, but I insured two other drums for him, one of which was Foster's—one of them was burnt in 1871, and the other in 1873—I paid him 135l. in 1871 and 140l. in 1873—I have paid him 275l. altogether—he insured three sets with me up to 25th December, 1875; there were three machines or drums, two engines by Foster, one by Clayton, and two by Garrett—he discontinued insuring in December, 1875, when our office increased the rate.

Cross-examined. He began to insure with me in 1863, but I was only able to insure him at 1l. 1s. per 100l.; in 1878, finding that I was losing business as I could not do busines at the same rate as others, I made an alteration, and his machines were put into the Union office, but they discontinued their agency, and then I put him into the Imperial office, which charged 1l. 1s. per 100l., but he did not like the rate; he stood it for a year and then went to the Norwich Union—a great many offices only charge half a guinea per 100l.; 1l. 1s. is the highest rate I ever heard of—the Imperial do not care about that class of risk, and they charge a high rate—I cannot say that machines were being constantly burnt in that neighbourhood—there were his two fires, and in 1874 I had another fire to report, not in the Norwich Union, and after that they ceased to do business—it is no doubt a risky insurance business—I have known the prisoner 20 years, and have had money transactions with him and found him straightforward.

Re-examined. I have insured machines for ten years—in may last fire I had four threshing machines burnt; that was at Upwell, fifteen miles off—they were on a farmer's premises, all together in one lump—I only remember these three fires, and one of very slight damage in that neighbourhood, only a few pounds—many persons have machines in my neighbourhood.

ROBERT REDDING (Police Superintendent). I produce a policy effected with the Norwich Union Fire Insurance—I got it from the Magistrates' Clerk—I know the prisoner's pony, it is quick and quite capable of trotting ten or twelve miles an hour.

Cross-examined. It may be broken-kneed since I saw it—I have been inspector in that neighbourhood five years, and have seen the pony at different times—I have never ridden behind it—I have never before said that it would go ten or twelve miles an hour because I was never asked.

HENRY MUSSON . I am clerk to Frews and Wright, solicitors, of Wisbeach, and agent to the Norwich Union Fife Insurance Office—I manage their insurance business—I know the prisoner—he came there on 15th Jan., 1876, and insured three threshing machines for 150l. each, two of which were made by Foster and the third by Clayton and Shuttleworth, which is the one mentioned in this policy (produced)—he gave it as dated 1873—that refers to the year—that policy is not now in force—it was in force until last Christmas, that would be after the fire took place. (This policy was dated 24th December, 1876. Annual premium 1l. 12s. for 150l. on a threshing machine, straps, cloths, and utensils belonging, by Clayton and Shuttle-worth, dated 1873, and a straw elevator for 50l.)

Cross-examined. The three machines and two elevators were insured on the same day—they are dated 1873, 1874, and 1875—I asked him for the

numbers, and he could not supply them—I asked for the dates when they were made, and he gave those dates—this conversation was on 18th January, 1876, three years ago—I kept no record of what took place on that occasion beyond the entry in this book—my attention was not called to it till this case arose, and then by referring to the book, and seeing the dates 1873, 1874, and 1875, I am able to say that those were the years.

Re-examined. Those entries were made at the time the policies were received from the head office—policies entered "February, 1876, "were entered in February, 1876, and not within the last year or two.

WILLIAM LARRINGTON (Re-examined). This particular machine was pointed out to me by Weaver—there was no date on it then—I saw a number on a brass plate, but cannot say what the number was.

JAMES GOODE (Re-examined). The machine I speak of as upwards of 21 years old had a number on it—I saw the number on the engine itself after the fire—I never saw it before—when I saw it, it had "717" on it on a small oval brass plate.

SAMUEL CLARK (Re-examined). I went to the fire the same Sunday night—there was an old tarpaulin cloth on the drum.

The Prisoner received a good character.

GUILTY .— Five Years' Penal Servitude.


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