Old Bailey Proceedings.
16th September 1878
Reference Number: t18780916

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Old Bailey Proceedings front matter.
16th September 1878
Reference Numberf18780916

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A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoner's age.


OLD COURT.—Monday, September 16th, and part of Tuesday, 17th, 1878.

Before Mr. Recorder.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-747
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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747. JEAN MENIER (45) was indicted for stealing a mosaic necklace and other articles, the property of William Henry Weldon, in his dwelling-house.

MESSRS. STRAIGHT and MEAD Conducted the Prosecution; and MR. BESLEY the Defence.

GEORGINA WELDON . I am the wife of William Henry Weldon—for some years I resided at Tavistock House, Tavistock Square—ten or eleven years ago I tried to establish an orphanage there—I kept poor children there for residence and education—I first became acquainted with the prisoner in 1872, through Monsieur Gunod, who was staying with us for three years—the prisoner visited him; he described himself as a journalist of importance—he said that he had been connected with a newspaper called La Liberte Colonial—after that I lost sight of him for some little time—I had a book belonging to him, and I sent one of my pupils to say I had got it, and to express my sympathy with him and his wife as to something that had happened; and he came to see me again, I think, on 12th or 13th of April, 1876—very soon after that Madame Menier came to stay with me, with a little child—we were on terms of great friendship, and were very fond of each other—she remained with me at Tavistock House, until October last year, with the child—the prisoner came to see her very often; I thought he was a very honest man, and his wife was quite certain that he was—in October it was arranged that owing to Madame Menier's health we were to go abroad for a time—we were to go to Paris—we left London at 6.30 on the evening of 9th October, I, Madame Menier, and the child, and six or seven other children; some of them had gone before with Madame Menier's sister; We went to Argles, about four hours from Paris, the prisoner accompanied us to the station—prior to my departure I had arranged for Mr. and Mrs. Lowther to occupy Tavistock House; I expected them to come in the morning; before I left, but they did not arrive—I left nearly all the servants in the house—I did not give the prisoner any instructions at the station,

before I went there I had given him six pages in English to give to Mr. Lowther, instructions as to different little things that ought to be attended to in the house—I gave him no authority to occupy two rooms in the house—I never contemplated anything of the kind; he could not have lived in the store-room and the lumber-room, because there was no place for him there—he had the keys of those two rooms—I gave him no authority to sleep in the house, or to keep the latch-keys or anything of that kind—I could not exactly say when I received a letter from Mr. Lowther, I think it was in December—I was in Paris on and off, the children were ill, and I was generally at Argles, or at a convent, where five of the children are now—I remained in France till 2nd April—on 9th March I got a letter from my husband's lawyer—I wrote to my mother, and ultimately I returned to England on 3rd April, and went to the house on the 4th—the door was not opened, I rushed in, I got in by a dodge, because my husband was trying to keep me out—the prisoner came up when he heard that I had come home, and he rushed out of the house as fast as he could go—he did not say a word to me—I saw a box in the hall packed and corded ready for removal, it was my box—it contained higgledy-piggledy things, dresses, and linen and lace, but nothing like jewellery, he had cleared off my jewellery-case first—there were several boxes ready packed, crockery, and in fact there was a general clearance—I then searched my jewel case, and he had taken every single thing except some little coral beads not worth much—the things produced by Mr. King, Mr. Wilson, and Mr. Cordell are all mine—they were left quite safe when I went away in October—the articles of jewellery in the first packet were not in the jewel case, they were in another box—when I was at the house on 4th April, I saw a man named Baratti there—I found that the prisoner had a mistress living in the house, I found the address of her father and mother in my box, and I telegraphed to them to come up and look for the girl, and we traced her to where the prisoner had taken her, and that was how we caught him—on 5th April I went to the Hotel Cont at 21, Golden Square, with the officer, I went there first and saw the box there—the policeman found the girl Nicholls there, and the servant also, she is one of the persons I desired Mr. Wontner to subpoena, but he has not done so, she ought certainly to have been subpoenaed—the box at the hotel was not mine, but the contents were; there was wearing-apparel, towels, and other things, the detective has them—I never authorised the prisoner to take them away—I gave the servant into custody—the prisoner came to the hotel while I was there with the officer, at a quarter past 12—I said to detective Cook, "I give that man in charge for the theft of these things which are in this parcel"—he strode across the room, shook his fist in my face, and said, "I give this woman in charge for the murder of little children"—he also said that I was mad, that I was not to be listened to, that I was a miserable woman, and that he would do for me, that I should not have my own way long, or something like that—he did not say a word about the property—he only said I had murdered the children and was mad—he repeated that a great many times, in the room and all the way down stairs, and in the cab, and he kept on threatening me the whole way that he would do for me, that he had got everything in store for me, that I should see, and I should know what was coming and all that sort of thing, and that I was a bad good-for-nothing woman—it was all in French; I told him to speak in English so that the policeman could

understand him, I translated to the policeman what he said—I charged him at the station—he made no statement as to why or how he had taken the property; he said I had got his balloon; that was his excuse for taking the things, because he said I had got a balloon of his; he told Mr. Flowers that it was worth 400l., and he had taken my things as a sort of equivalent—he had given me the balloon, it is a dreadful thing, I wanted it to be taken away, and I wish somebody would send for it—I think it is a very clever invention—he gave it me to benefit my orphanage, if I could get it from the War Office, as I knew several persons there, and if by my influence I could get hold of the thing I was to have it for the benefit of the orphanage, and we were to divide the profits—I was to have one-third, and Madame one-third, and he himself one-third, and we often argued as to what we should do with the money—it was a balloon which he had submitted to the War Office for military operations, it is now in my yard—I should like to state that I have here Mr. Simmonds and Mr. Morris to state that it is their balloon, and not Mr. Menier's, and that they paid 800l. for it—I saw some furniture belonging to me at Baratti's, it was taken from my house—I wish I knew where Baratti lives; he did live at 372, Euston Road; the furniture consisted of tables, beds, chests of drawers—I had left them all right in the house, when I went to France on 9thOctober; I did not authorise any one to take them.

Cross-examined. Tavistock House was acquired on 3rd December, 1870—I did not say at the police-court that I had last slept with my husband in 1875; it is not the fact—I did not say I had not slept with him since 1870, you asked me how long it was since I last saw my husband, and I said not for thirteen or fourteen years; I said I had not slept with him for about thirteen or fourteen years—I lived with him under the same roof till 1875—I don't think I had much interest in a house in Bentinck Street I did not take it, it was not taken for the purposes of the orphanage—I did not advance money for it—Madame Menier first lived with me on 19th July, 1876, she has lived with me from that time, and she is with me now—at the police-court I declined to give her address—in October, 1877, I did not contemplate being abroad for many years, I did not intend to expatriate myself for three years, I meant to come back in May—I taught the Rawlings family at the orphanage, music, reading and writing, and other things—I authorised Menier to procure bells and a piano for them—I had nothing to do with their engagement at the Oxford, they were engaged there to play on hand bells—I have signed my name as "Valerie" and "Granny"—these letters marked from A to Q are my writing—Madame and I both gook the name of DeLuz, and so did Mr. Menier—these are parts of letters written by me in October, 1877—some of them were addressed to Tavistock House; many were to Mr. Ray, his cousin—this (marked F) is my writing, it is a letter which I sent to the prisoner to post for me, and he kept it back—this letter (R) is the prisoner's writing, I received it in Paris—it is an agreement for the balloon and for the millions in New Caledonia—this is the account the prisoner sent me—it is dated 15th June, 1877—there was another account which I received after he was given in custody, saying that I owed him 170l.—there was a certain sum of 400l. which I put into the City Bank to oblige him, because he said he wanted to appear to have a financial position in the City, but he was most particularly asked not to touch it—I did not know it was for a bad purpose—I wrote to the City Bank

about it and also to Mr. Gunod, thinking he would not like to have to do with such a wretch, but I was mistaken—I let him have a great deal of other money—I did not desire him while I was abroad to let Tavistock House—I wanted him to save a piano of my very own, which I had in Bentinck Street—the wearing apparel that I found at the Hotel Cont was in Miss Nicholls's box—I have never kept an old rag shop, therefore I cannot tell you the value of the articles—I did not charge Miss Nicholls with stealing them—I gave the servant Elizabeth Haseldine in charge—I never saw her before—she ought to be a witness for me—she was Menier's servant—I was so sorry for Miss Nicholls I did not charge her with anything—I said if she did not stop screaming I would make her leave off—I was too sorry for her to accuse her of anything—I identified my watch on that occasion—the prisoner had got it and Would not give it me, and I was determined to have it—I don't know what he said—he gesticulated, and roared, and bellowed, and said I was mad, and that not a word I said was true—I can't say that he said it was not my watch—the detective took it from his pocket—I said it was stolen from me—I never withdrew from that statement—the tickets for. the jewellery were found at Tavistock House—I know that he had no business; he might have had a dozen addresses, one of them was in the Minories—Baratti was a protege of Miss Torreani's—I have tried to be kind to him, as I have to a good many people—I did not allow him to live in the house—I had not given him assistance in money—I had been to the Austrian Embassy, and had helped him when his child died of smallpox, and tried to get him assistance—I had known him about four years—the furniture was not returned at my request; Mr. Wontner told Barratti to send it back, and I gave him 1l. for the cart, and he sent it back—I charged Menier with stealing that furniture—Baratti is not here, the subpoenas were served. so late, there was no time to find him—I did not advance money for the construction of the balloon, Mr. Simmonds and Mr. Morris had done that—the prisoner represented to me that he was interested in millions of acres in New Caledonia—I was, when in Paris, to interest myself with the Minister of Marine there In getting the property—I think I went once to his brother's office in Paris, and Madame and I dined with his mother—the prisoner's brother was not the proprietor of La Liberte Colonial—can you be the proprietor of a thing that is dead? it was all but dead, it only lived nine months—I was not going to edit it, I am not up to that—I dare say I did represent that I would put it in such a shape as that it would be successful—I think it was on 2nd April that Mr. Neale had anything to do with the case—this is true: "I was barricaded by lire keepers trying to get me to a lunatic asylum, some one having got two doctors to sign a certificate"—will you, my lord, subpoena them? do subpoena them—"the lunacy laws are something awful"—so they are. "Two villains may quite unsuspectingly get into your house and swear away your mind"—it is Dr. Winslow and Dr. Wynne, and Campbell and Rutherford. If you would only bring those doctors into Court, I should be so much obliged to you. It is a conspiracy, I have charged them with it, and Mr. Flowers desired the Home Office to take it up, but Mr. Wontner is a friend of Dr. Winslow's, and therefore he would not do it. It is all very well to laugh, but when a woman's life and reputation is at stake, I will defend myself. I am not wrong. I know perfectly well that three keepers did get into my house and lay hold of me. This man is but the tool of the conspiracy, and why should

he stand there alone? It is not because he is a miserable adventurer that he is to be the target of these people; there are others more wicked than him who have tried to get me away and get possession of my house. It is not a question of my judgment, it is a question of fact Mr. Neale was actually abetting him to steal my property. Let Mr. Hirschfield be subpoenaed. I know they try to make me mad, they are all connected in conspiring against me. The case has not been fairly tried, and I wish the Jury and the public and the press to know it; the proper witnesses have not been subpoenaed. Dr. Winslow and Dr. Wynne are two villains, and I hope the press will not be afraid to report it I am a spiritualist. It is atheists who run down spiritualism."

Re-examined. When I first attended before the Magistrate I was not represented by anybody—Mr. Flowers wanted the Treasury to take the case up, but they have not taken it up properly—a man named Nelson had the house in Bentinck Street, he had gone bankrupt for 20,000l.—he got 1,000l. out of me under the pretence that he wanted to use it for the benefit of my orphanage—that was how I was always taken in by people—the house was heavily mortgaged; the lawyer made him give me the lease, and Menier said he would give me 150l. for it, and he gave it me out of the 400l. which I had placed to his account at the. bank—he had no right to use it except for my purposes and by my permission, and he swore he would never touch a penny of it—I believe this account was rendered to me in October (read)—this is dated 17th November, 1877; it was only to show to the Minister—the prisoner speaks in this of the money I had lent him and the assistance I had rendered him—the term "granny" is one that the children used to me, it was a term of affection—Madame Menier and I used the name of DeLuz, it was her grandmother's name—I did not want to be known, I was incognito—the letter F is addressed to Ray, he lives at 20, Adelphi Buildings, Covent Garden—I handed that letter to Menier to post, but it never reached Ray—the watch was one that I lent to Menier—I had asked him for it dozens of times, but could not get it.

JAMES SAMUEL BELL . I am a possession man—I was instructed by Mr. Neale to take possession of Tavistock House—I went there on 26th March—I saw the prisoner there and the girl Nicholls, a servant girl, Lizzie Haseltine, and Baratti—Mr. Neale gave the prisoner a week's notice to leave—I remained in the house the prisoner did not go at the end of the week; he went away four days afterwards in a cab, taking a box with him—I did not see what it contained—the girl Nicholls packed the box, and the other girl as well; part of it was in the prisoner's presence—he and Nicholls were living as man and wife; she left with him—Baratti also left that day, and the servant the next—the prisoner called next day; he said he had got a card from Mr. Neale, stating that he was to point out some things that he was to take away—he did not take anything away—some women's and children's clothing was packed up, and he pointed out some cupboards to me, and he said he should send Baratti with a van to take them away—whilst he was at the house a ring came to the bell, I opened the door and admitted Mrs. Weldon—the prisoner then walked out, got into a cab, and went off.

Cross-examined. I believe Mr. Neale is a most respectable solicitor—I don't know Mr. Weldon—Mr. Neale was acting for him—I went into possession for Mr. Weldon on 26th March—at that time the inmates of the

1 house were the servant Lizzie, Miss Nicholls, Baratti, and the prisoner—Baratti was not sleeping there—nothing was removed while I was there but Miss Nicholls's box.

URIAH COOK (Detective). I was first communicated with on this matter on 5th April by Mrs. Weldon—I accompanied her to the Hotel Cont—when we entered the room the prisoner was not there, only two females Nicholls and another—in a short time the prisoner came in—Mrs. Weldon said, in English, that she would give him into custody for stealing some wearing apparel—he replied, in broken English, "I shall give that women in custody for murder"—there was a box in the room; she looked into it and identified the articles—he said "I told the servant when I left Tavistock House to pack up my things, and I suppose she packed up these things in mistake"—I took him in a cab to the station; Mrs. Weldon was with us—he spoke in French in the cab—he was very quiet—I can't say what the conversation was about; he was rather excited—he was charged at the station; he made no answer to it—I found on him a watch, which Mrs. Weldon claimed; also some money and some keys, which fitted different drawers at Tavistock House—the pawn-tickets were handed to me a few days afterwards by Mrs. Weldon—I went to Baratti's, and there saw some furniture, which Mrs. Weldon identified—I have endeavoured to procure the attendance of Baratti; he was here last Sessions—the trial has been postponed on two occasions at the instance of the prisoner for the purpose of calling witnesses from Paris—at the station, or in the cab, he Said that Mrs. Weldon was mad, she did not know what she was talking about.

Cross-examined. I was first spoken to by Mrs. Weldon on 5th April at Vine Street police-station; I had never seen her before—we went to the hotel and found Miss Nicholls's mother there, and the father came a few minutes afterwards—Mrs. Weldon did not appear excited—the prisoner was very excited—I did not hear Mrs. Weldon charge Miss Nicholls with theft—I did not hear her cry and say she was going to prison—I produce the articles that were found in Miss Nicholls's box; there were some of her own articles in it—I did not hear Mrs. Weldon charge the servant Lizzie with theft—the prisoner said he had brought the box away himself, packed by the servant; it was locked when I saw it—Miss Nicholls was, there at the time—the prisoner had engaged the room at the hotel—I know that he had offices at 35, Minories—I could not say that he lived there—I went there afterwards; he gave me that address—when Mrs. Weldon said the watch was hers he did not deny it—I saw Mrs. Weldon again that same night; she did not give me the pawn-tickets then; she gave me two a week after—she said she had the proper keys of the place—I was led to believe that these were false keys—the prisoner said something about the balloon, but I cannot say what it was; he spoke in broken English—I found this notice from; Mr. Neale on the prisoner, and other papers, some in French; they were given back to him.

WILLIAM HENRY WELDON . I live at 9, Albert Mansions—I am an officer in the Heralds' College—I am the husband of Mrs. Weldon—I never authorised the prisoner to remove any of the articles from Tavistock House, I had no connection with him whatever—this is a notice to my solicitor, Mr. Neale, to take possession of the house and put a proper person in charge of it, I sent it to him on 20th March—I don't know whether it was in consequence of information received from Mrs. Weldon's mother, I think it

was from my own solicitor in Liverpool, for whom Mr. Neale was acting.

Cross-examined. I had ceased to live with my wife since somewhere about 1875—she then had some adopted children in the house—I left her in full possession of the house—she has private property of her own, in the sense that her jewellery was considered her private property—there was no settlement upon her, she is not entitled to any property in her own right, that I am aware of—I cannot explain how it is that she says I improperly tried to make her out a lunatic, in order to get hold of her money, because she has no money—I was not actuated by any malicious motives in calling the doctors in to see her, I have certainly not conspired with the doctors, it is a delusion—I did not interfere at all with Tavistock House, or with her movements between 1875 and March 1878—I took no part about the house in Bentinck Street—I don't remember purchasing any of these articles—I had nothing to do with giving the prisoner into custody.

Re-examined. I made my wife an allowance of 1,000l. a year, while she was in Tavistock House—I was there for some time after the children were. there—we had no quarrel, I left at her request—no steps were taken to seize her person, but twelve months before I had consulted two medical men, who had charge of her father—she had been abroad, and the moment she returned to England I took steps to see as to the state of her mind—I did not authorise Mr. Neale to give the prisoner any authority to take things out of the house.

ALFRED KING . I am assistant to Mr. James Smith, pawnbroker, 28, Tottenham Court Road—I produce three table-spoons, three table-forks, a chatelaine and pendant, two solitaires, and two lockets, pawned by the prisoner on 13th and 17th November last; in the name of Menier, for 10s. and 4s.

Cross-examined. The articles of clothing produced I should advance about 17s. on, that is about what they would be worth in the trade.

ALBERT WILSON . I am assistant to Mr. Percy Attenborough, pawnbroker of Greek Street, Soho—I produce eleven pieces of china, pawned on 17th November for 8s., in the name of John Alexander, of 7, Charlotte Street—I cannot identify the person who pawned them.

THOMAS CORDELL . I am assistant to Mr. Harrison, pawnbroker, of 319, High Holborn—I produce a mosaic snap and coral pin, pledged with me on 27th November last, for 30s. in the name of Menier—I have seen the prisoner before, but do not identify him as pawning them.

GEORGINA WELDON (Re-examined). When I left in October I left other articles of jewellery besides those produced, some bracelets, and a necklace worth 150 guineas—the two lockets and the pendant were not in the jewel case—Menier brought me the black mosaic clock back—the value of the articles left was 300l. or 400l.—everything was gone when I came back but one coral necklace—a silver goblet was afterwards brought back by Baratti—my maid found the duplicates—I found one in a deed box, which Menier had lost the key of—when we were abroad, Madame Menier sent for the keys of certain cupboards; I sent the keys by Fremantle, one of my pupils, to take to Menier, and he returned them, and when two keys were found on the prisoner, we thought they were; duplicates, but they were not, he had sent us the wrong, and they were the keys which we had sent—I found two letters at Tavistock square, purporting to come from Eugene Menier—they were found in the

writing-table Menier used—one is dated 10th December, 1877. (This letter stated that the witness surrounded herself with children whom she ill-treated and that she was a woman of whom it was desirable to keep clear.)

Cross-examined. I received that letter in Argles, or Paris—I was nearly kidnapped in Paris on 17th December, seven days after that letter was written.

THOMAS LOWTHER . I live at Park Grove, Hammersmith, and am a journalist—previous to October last year Mrs. Weldon arranged with my wife with reference to her house being taken care of—we were to take charge of it, and in consequence of the arrangement I went with my wife to the house—we were a little late, and Mrs. Weldon had gone—I saw Menier—he said Mrs. Weldon had gone to Paris, and had left him in charge of the house to hand it over to us, but it was his intention to remain there and occupy two rooms—I declined to have anything to do with it under those circumstances—I said I would write to Mrs. Weldon—I did write—I asked Menier for her address—I now forget it—it was to the care of some person in Paris, I think Eugene Menier, the prisoner's brother—I sent the letter directed as Menier had told me a few days after she left—I have never seen it since—it has not been returned—I never saw the six pages of instructions which Mrs. Weldon says she left for me—Menier showed me a draft agreement, which he said had been made between him and Mrs. Weldon, by which Mrs. Weldon undertook to let him have the house at 240l. or 250l. per annum—this is very much like the document, I would not swear to it—it is not signed—there are some initials in pencil, "G. W." and "J. A. M."

GEORGINA WELDON (Re-examined). No such agreement was ever entered into between me and the prisoner—I never saw it until shown to me at the police-court.

Cross-examined. I said at the police-court that it had been the subject of conversation, but Madame Menier had made such a scene.

Witnesses for the Defence.

MARIE HELUY (Interpreted). I live at Argles, in France—I am not married—I am a midwife of the Faculty of Paris—I am sister to Madame Menier—I brought her child to Tavistock House on 29th July last year—I saw the accused there every day—he dined at the same table with Mrs. Weldon—I heard Mrs. Weldon on several occasions give orders to him to pledge articles, silver plate and articles of jewellery—Menier, on the part of Mrs. Weldon, sold me some articles, the fittings to a travelling bag which had silver tops—Mrs. Weldon knew of it—she was present—I remained at Tavistock House till 16th September last year—before that time I heard conversation between Mrs. Weldon and Menier as to the management on Tavistock House while she was abroad—I bought things a fortnight or three weeks before I left—I paid Mrs. Weldon—it was arranged between Mrs. Weldon and Menier that in her absence Menier, as her partner, should direct, conduct, and transact all the business just as if she was here—the orphanage was not to be carried on, because the children went away—it was to be continued in France—sometimes it was said the house was to be given up, at other times that Menier was to carry on the business; she said she was a ruined woman, and everything was to be sold and had to be sold—I do not know about Bentinck House but I know a house was spoken of in Bentinck

Street—Mrs. Weldon spoke of it—Mrs. Weldon had to pay the taxes and the rates for the water and so on of that house, and not having the money she passed the house to Menier—I did not enter into money matters, but Menier received money from these business transactions—on the 12th October, when Mrs. Weldon came to France, she said they were partners together—they were living together in Paris—they came to Argles on the 11th October with my sister, and remained a week—letters arrived from Menier—I did not see Mrs. Weldon address letters to Menier—I did not go with them to Paris; I went in the January following, that was three months after—I heard Mrs. Weldon say in Paris that Menier was to see the Rawlings family about a contract; she was always speaking about one business or the other—I first heard of the action about the doctors in the newspaper three or four months ago, I think in April—Eugene Menier is not my brother-in-law—I was not on friendly or unfriendly terms with him; I did not see him at all.

Cross-examined. About two months ago nobody asked me to give evidence, but I heard of the charge and offered to give evidence—I knew what the charge was from the newspapers, theft, stealing jewellery and furniture, pilfering and taking everything out of the house—I did not know the time the jewellery was stolen, only from two French newspapers; one was the Figaro—that was in April, I think; I cannot be precise—I began laughing; I thought it was of no consequence—I did not recollect the conversations with Mrs. Weldon in July, 1877; I had them in my mind all the time—I did not know her before I brought her children over here, and a few days after I had done so there was a general long conversation, and then I heard what I have stated, and then they asked me to bring the children over—it was mentioned all the time I was there—Menier was not only like a partner, but very nearly like the master of the house—one article which Mrs. Weldon authorised him to pawn was a gold watch; I was going to take that watch myself when Menier said "No, it is better to pawn it, the movement is not a good one; you must not take it"—Mrs. Weldon was present at the sale to me—it was only on one occasion—she speaks French perfectly, but she had the idea everybody was robbing her, and said to Menier" You understand it much better than I, do the transaction" or "do the business"—I also recollect a small chain and a little silver box—other things were handed to Menier to pawn, but I only recollect the three things I have mentioned.

Re-examined. The party who came to Argles in October consisted of Mrs. Weldon, the prisoner's wife, and live children, and I had six other children—they came to my residence, which is not a convent—ten children were orphans—one was my own niece—the two ladies went to Paris, the eleven children remained with me—Mrs. Weldon paid me a sum for these children, but not sufficient; she has not paid me now.

By MR. STRAIGHT. AS to the 8,000 francs, for that I have had the advantage of being accused of having robbed her—Mrs. Weldon paid me 6,000 francs.

GEORGINA WELDON (Recalled). The statement of the last witness that I authorised Menier to pawn various things in August and September is not true in one single instance—the watch she refers to was sold to Mrs. Landeau, one of my witnesses, and I never heard of it except through the witness—I gave the chain to Madame Menier—I bought the silver box of Messrs. Sampson's, and it was given to the prisoner by his wife—I never

authorised it—I never spoke of myself as a ruined woman, I should like to bring my account-books to show that I never had less than 500l. at my bank—when I went to Paris, and while I was there, I never received sums of money raised by pawning articles—I never dreamt of it—the silver dressing-case was given to me—I lent money to a poor woman, and Madame said she should like to have it, and Madame sold it to her; I had nothing to do with it—the 20l. which I received from Menier was out of the 400l. which I believed to be deposited at the City Bank—I do not know now whether it was deposited or not—I received no answer—if Mrs. Heluy only received 6,000 francs then 2,000 has been embezzled also—if Menier says he paid her 2,000 francs as well, that would make the 8,000 francs—I never heard the statement about Menier being my partner before—I only used the expression in my letter for fun, and he addressed me as "My dear granny" for the purpose of showing it to the Minister of Marine—I never said I took 6,000 francs from London—I gave the 6,000 francs from. September to the beginning of March—I can tell by my books, but I gave Heluy 100 francs at a time for the keep of the children, and to take them abroad—I have asked her for accounts six months since—as to what she saw in the newspapers, she received a telegram from Menier's brother, asking her to go and give evidence for Menier—she said "If I am paid I will go"; Madame was there and told us the whole story—as to Menier being master of the house, I should like to call my servants, who could speak about that—as to dining at the same table, we all, I and my servants, dined together.

William Clifton Crick proved the translation of a number of letters passing between Mrs. Weldon and the prisoner, showing the friendly and confidential relations existing between them, and containing very strong expressions on her part with reference to the alleged misconduct of other parties.

JAMES NEALE . I am acting as town agent to the solicitor to Mr. Weldon—after Mr. Bell went into possession in March I had an account delivered to me, I think, during the week's notice—the account showed a balance in favour of the accused of 178l. 1s. 1d.—I do not remember it being explained to me that upon the paying in of 400l. into the bank to the credit of the Accused an assignment was made by him of some property amounting to 200l. in France—something was said about some property in New Caledonia, but I do not remember anything about any other property in France.

GUILTY. Strongly recommended to mercy by the Jury, being a foreigner, and on the ground of the intimate relationship existing between the Prosecutrix. and himself. Six Months' Imprisonment .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-748
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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748. GEORGE BARKER (32) PLEADED GUILTY to stealing, whilst employed in the Post Office, a post-letter containing 120 stamps, the property of Her Majesty's Postmaster-General,— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

NEW COURT. Monday, September 16th, 1878.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-749
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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749. EDWARD LACY (54) and MARK REDMAN (53) PLEADED GUILTY to feloniously uttering counterfeit coin, both having been previously convicted of like offences. Lacy received a good character. LACY—Eighteen Months' Imprisonment. REDMAN**—. Seven Years' Penal Servitude

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-750
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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750. ALFRED JONES (25) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. LLOYD and DE MICHELE conducted the Prosecution; and MR. FRITH

the Defence. HENRY WALTER FRANCIS. I am a dairyman, of 107, Gloucester Road, Kensington—on 16th August I served the prisoner with some milk—he gave me a good shilling, and I gave him the change—shortly afterwards Vincent, who is employed in the shop, called to me, and I saw James in the shop. (See next case.) Vincent handed me a florin in James's presence; I put it in the till and gave him 1s., 10d. change—I afterwards found the florin was bad, and looked out and saw James following Jones; they were about three yards apart—I went to Mr. Lord's shop, 12, Gloucester Road, and saw a bad florin in his possession—I marked the florin Vincent gave me and gave it to the inspector; this is it; I bent it.

Cross-examined. My wife and a boy assist in the shop, but my wife was not there then—I was not away after I served Jones.

EDWARD VINCENT . I serve in Mr. Francis's shop—on 16th August I served Jones with some milk; he paid with a good shilling—in about two minutes James came in, bought something, and gave me a florin, which I gave to my master, but did not know it was bad—I went out with him and watched the prisoners—James went into Lord's shop, and Jones waited four or five doors off—James came out and went down Canon Place—Jones went after him—another boy joined them, and they went into High Street, Kensington—I spoke to a constable, who took Jones and James—the boy who joined them ran away.

Cross-examined. There were persons in the street who were near Jones and James—they walked together five minutes.

HERBERT LORD. I live with ray father, a stationer, at 12, Gloucester Road—on 16th August James came in and paid for something with, a florin—I gave him the change—a short time afterwards Mr. Francis came in—I looked in the till and found a florin; he tried it and found it was bad—I marked it and gave it to a policeman; this is it—there was no other florin there.

HUMPHREY DONOVAN (Policeman 167 T). On 16th August Vincent pointed out the prisoner and James to me at the bottom of Palace Avenue, Kensington, walking together—they saw Vincent speak to me—I crossed the road and took them in custody—Vincent said "These boys have been passing bad money down Gloucester Road"—Jones said "I have not been down Gloucester Road, and we have not been together"—I said "How do you account for being together now, then?"—Jones said "He was asking me the way to Notting Hill, and I was showing him"—we took him in custody.

Cross-examined. I have been twenty-four years in the force—I did not cross-examine the prisoner—I have not been complained of for asking questions of prisoners; the police are told not to do so.

CHARLES WEAVER (Policeman T 261). I took Jones, he said that what he had in the shop he paid for with good money—I found on him four shillings, six sixpences, a three penny piece, 2s. 1d. in bronze, and a small pocket-book.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These florins are both bad.


16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-751
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence; Guilty > unknown

Related Material

751. ALFRED JONES was again indicted, with FREDERICK JAMES (18) for unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. LLOYD, for the Prosecution, offered no evidence against Alfred Jones.

NOT GUILTY . (The former witnesses repeated their evidence.)

MARTHA CALDER . I was serving in Mr. Lord's shop on 10th August, Vincent came in, and I looked in the till and saw some silver—there was only one florin there, I put it back into the till, which had not been emptied in the interval—I afterwards saw Mr. Lord take the same florin from the till—nobody was serving but he and I.

JAMES— GUILTY .— Six Months' Imprisonment .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-752
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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752. JOHN HENRY KING (21) and CHARLES WILSON (19) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin, having other coin in their possession.

MESSRS. LLOYD and DE MICHELE conducted the Prosecution. KATHLEEN DAY. I am barmaid at the Greyhound Tavern—on 1st August, about noon, I served Wilson with a glass of ale—he tendered a florin—I said I thought it was bad, and he showed it to a young man in the bar—Mrs. McCarthy gave him change for it, and then showed it to a gentleman, who tried it with his teeth and found it was bad—Mrs. McCarthy gave it to the prisoner, and he gave her back the change which she had given him—this is the florin (produced), I identify it by the teeth marks on the edge, I saw them as soon as they were made.

JOHN FLEMING . I am pot man at the Greyhound, in Milton Street—on 1st August I saw Wilson in the next compartment to me, and, in consequence of something which was said to me, I followed him for three-quarters of an hour; King joined him in Barbican, they spoke and kept together—I told two officers—Wilson went into a paper shop, while King waited two or three yards off; they then went into Alders gate Street, and the officers apprehended them at the General Post Office, after a stiff chase of Wilson, but King had not time to run away.

JAMES EGAN (City Policeman 187). On 1st August, about 12.30, I saw the prisoners together in Alders gate Street—I received a communication from Fleming, and followed them with Porter—they both stopped at a public-house opposite Little Britain and looked in, and just then another officer came from Little Britain, they saw him and walked on—I followed them—I was in uniform, they saw me and commenced running, I ran after them, caught Wilson, handed him over to Crouch, and went after King, who threw something from his right hand as he passed the General Post Office, towards an empty brick cart; Porter caught him, and I examined the cart and found this florin with teeth marks on it—it was marked "D" and I marked it "187"—I told King I should charge him with attempting to utter counterfeit coin having more in his possession—he said, "You are very tricky, but you have got nothing"—I showed him the florin and told him I had got it out of the cart; he said, "You have got me straight, it is no use saying anything more about it"—I took both prisoners to the station, and found on King six shillings, seven sixpences, farthing in bronze, a key, and a copy of a will, and on Wilson this counterfeit florin, a penny, and a key.

HARRY PORTER (City Policeman 121). On 1st August, Egan called my attention to the prisoner in Alders gate Street—I followed them to Little Britain, they both looked into a public-house, but saw another officer coming down Little Britain and passed on—I was in uniform—they saw Egan behind them and commenced running—I followed and caught King, I

slipped and we both fell; he did not do it intentionally—Egan came up and took some money from King's hand, and then went to a brick cart, and came back and caught hold of him again; he said, "You are very tricky, but you have got nothing"—Egan showed him the bad florin, and he said, "Well, you have got me straight, and it is no use saying anything more about it"—we took them both to the station.

WILLIAM CROUCH (City Policeman). Egan handed Wilson to me—he said, "What are you catching hold of me for?" I said, "You will be charged with uttering counterfeit coin, have you got any more?" he said, "Yes I have only one." I looked in his pocket and found a florin which I did not think was bad, and put it back in his pocket, but I afterwards found it was bad. I tried it two or three times at the station till I bent it with my teeth—it is marked with a W. WILLIAM WEBSTER. These florins are both bad and from one mould. King produced a written defence, stating that he picked up the coins wrapped in paper, and lent one of them to Wilson to buy some evening newspapers, and threw the other away into the cart, when Wilson found the first to he bad. GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment each .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-753
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty

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753. GEORGE NIGHTINGALE (36) PLEADED GUILTY to stealing 200l. of the City Bank, his masters, also to feloniously forging an uttering an order for the payment of 200l. with intent to defraud.

Recommended to Mercy by the Prosecutors. He received a good character, and a memorial in his favour numerously signed was handed to the Court.— Nine Months' Imprisonment.

OLD COURT.—Tuesday, September 17th, 1878.

Before Mr. Recorder.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-754
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty

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754. FRANK HAMMOND (30) PLEADED GUILTY to stealing on 14th September, 1877, four bales of wool, the property of the London and St. Katherine Dock Company, also to unlawfully conspiring with others to steal the goods of the said Company.— Judgment Respited.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-755
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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755. JOHN DAWSON (38) to feloniously wounding Charles Smith, with intent to do grievous bodily harm.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-756
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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756. SAMUEL EDWARD THOMAS (30) to unlawfully obtaining 5l. 5s. and 5l. 10s. by false pretences.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Six Months' Imprisonment.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-757
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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757. RICHARD WYATT (37) to feloniously forging and uttering a railway season ticket of the Metropolitan Railway.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] A Fortnight's Imprisonment.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-758
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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758. DAVID JONES (23) to a burglary in the dwelling-house of Sarah Furness and stealing a coat and other articles, also to attempting to commit a burglary.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Four Months' Imprisonment.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-759
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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759. ELLEN WELLS (20) to a burglary in the dwelling-house of Frederick Barnes, and stealing two sheets, his property.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Four Months' Imprismment.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-760
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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760. JOHN ROY (28) to feloniously marrying Eliza Lott, his wife being then alive.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] One Month's Imprisonment.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-761
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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761. WILLIAM WHITLOCK VIRTUE (29) to two indictments for feloniously forging and uttering receipts for 2l. 2s. with intent to defraud.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Six Months' Imprisonment.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-762
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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762. EDWARD CLARKE (57) to four teen indictments for forging and uttering receipts and endorsements for 347l., 106l., and three other sums, also obtaining a cheque for 96l. 8s. 8d. from the Guardians of the Poor of the Edmonton Union by false pretences.—

[Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Judgement Respited.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-763
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty

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763. ALFRED WALTERS (16) to feloniously forging and uttering an order for 50l., also stealing a piece of paper of Louis Joseph Merfield, his master.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Twelve Months' Imprisonment. And

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-764
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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764. GEORGE WILLIAM SKEEN (22) to forging and uttering an order for 10l. 8s. 6d., also obtaining 5l. 10s. by false pretences.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Six Months' Imprisonment.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-765
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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765. ROBERT LEE (33) , Stealing, whilst employed in the Post Office, a post letter containing four 5l. Bank of England notes, the property of Her Majesty's Postmaster-General.

MR. METCALFE, Q. C, and MR. BIGGALLAY conducted the Prosecution;. and

MR. BRINDLEY the Defence. D'MONT ARBUTHNOT. I am Secretary of the Agra Bank—on 13th July a letter was addressed to Mrs. Yoimg containing four bank notes—I saw the numbers written down in the book and I compared them—these notes (produced) correspond with those numbers; they are Nos. 05901 to 05904, dated 5th December, 1877—I saw the letter done up and secured and afterwards sealed and addressed to Mrs. E. H. Young, 7, Malvern Villas, Kilburn Park, N. W.—it was given to Knowles the messenger.

WILLIAM KNOWLES . I am a messenger at the Agra Bank—on Saturday, 13th July, about four o'clock, a letter was given to me to post and register, addressed to Mrs. E. H. Young, 7, Malvern Villas, Kilburn Park—I took it to the Lombard Street post-office, and there registered it and obtained this receipt, which I gave to Mr. Dore, one of the clerks at the bank.

JAMES THOMPSON . I am a clerk in the Lombard Street branch post-office—on Saturday, 13th July, shortly Latter 4 o'clock, I received a letter addressed to Mrs. Young, Kilburn Park, for registration—the letter was placed in a small box on my left-hand side, together with some more letters—it was tied up and put into the East Central bag with other letters, and would eventually go through the North Western District Office.

HENRY JOHN WEBB . I am acting assistant overseer at the Kilburn post-office—on 13th July I received the 8 o'clock bag, which came through the North-Western, and opened it—I found in it this list of three registered letters, amongst them one to Mrs. Young—I handed them to the prisoner with the registered list, and took his receipt for them; the three letters were all in his delivery—the letters are sorted before we open the registered bag—the prisoner should have delivered that letter about 9.50—he had other letters to deliver besides the registered letters—it would be his duty to bring back the receipts on Monday morning which he took from the persons to whom he delivered them—he was supplied with forms of receipt for the purpose; they came with the bag—it is not my duty to receive back the receipts, that was the duty of Wells the overseer—I sent out the letters by the prisoner at the 8 p.m. delivery on Monday the 15th—he had two registered letters for delivery that night—I gave him receipts with the registered slip—I took his signature as I did in the other case—the receipts which the prisoner brought back would be given to Wells on the Tuesday morning.

Cross-examined. There were five registered letters on the evening of the 13th, three of them were on the prisoner's beat—he signed for them in the usual way—the receipts are either filed or handed to Mr. Wells—there are 23 men in the office, they all have access to the file—I handed the letters of the prisoner about 8.15—he left the office at 8.40—the men sign the time they leave; they sometimes stay a little later after signing—the business was

not particularly heavy on the Saturday night—the registered letters are placed with the other letters—he would reach Mrs. Young's house about 9.50, that is When he would finish his delivery—I remember the letter perfectly well—I heard Wells ask about it next morning—I knew then that it was missing, and the receipt also—the prisoner took out two registered letters on the Monday night, one of them was for a Mr. Cooper—I believe that letter was mis delivered to some one else of the same name—it was subsequently delivered to the right person—mistakes are made at times in delivering letters—sometimes letters containing coin are not registered—it is the carrier's duty to report that, and then a double charge is made for registration—the prisoner was rather slow as a sorter, and clumsy—he has been spoken to about it several times—he has not to my knowledge left the office with his letters unsorted and sorted them afterwards in the street.

Re-examined. The registered letters are put with the others, tied up in bundles, in order for delivery.

ROBERT HENRY WELLS . I am assistant overseer at the Kilburn post-office—it is my duty each morning to examine the receipts brought back for the registered letters—I examined them on Monday morning, 15th July—I found that one was missing in the name of Young—I asked the prisoner for it—he said "I have given them up"—I then said "I want two in the name of Young, one at the 6 p.m. delivery and one at the 8 p.m. delivery; but I have only one"—I showed him that, and said "Is this the receipt you had?"—he said "Yes"; that was the one of the 6 o'clock delivery; but I did not notice the stamp at that time—Hill had delivered at 6 o'clock—I afterwards saw Hill, and in consequence of what he said I at once communicated with the Post-office authorities—the missing letter has not been found, only the four notes—the prisoner took out letters on the Monday on three deliveries—he had three registered letters to deliver that day, one at the 4 p.m. delivery and two at the 8 p.m. delivery—the receipts for the 8 p.m. delivery he should bring back on the following morning—one of those letters in the name of Cooper was mis delivered; that mistake was discovered, and I delivered the letter myself to the right person—the prisoner came on duty at his usual time on the Tuesday morning—I inquired for the three receipts for the letters he had taken out on Monday—he said he had not got them—I said "What have you done with them?"—he said "I don't know"—I said "It is a very strange thing if you have lost three registered letter receipts"—he said "Well, I don't know whether I have or not; I have not got them"—I said "You will have to explain what you have done with them"—he then said "I have not delivered my last night's letters which I took out on the 8 p.m. delivery"—I then asked him for his bag containing those letters—I at once turned out the bag and found 86 letters and 11 newspapers—I asked why he did not deliver them—he said "I took them out, but I did not intend to deliver them", and he refused to deliver any more—he fetched his receipts in about a quarter of an hour afterwards, and then went away from the office altogether.

Cross-examined. The 6 o'clock delivery is marked very plainly on this receipt, but I did not notice that at the time; I was called away—I knew on the Monday morning that the receipt was missing—I did not know that the letter was missing—I did not report the missing of the receipt until the Thursday, because I could not see Hill, as he was away on leave—I am not aware that there is any letter missing but this one—the prisoner is generally a very quiet man;

he seemed a little excited that morning—he was not a likely man for me to suspect—ordinary letters have been misdelivered at times, but I never knew of a registered letter being misdelivered—this letter to Cooper was delivered to a person of the same name within five or six doors of the right one—the servant girl gave a receipt for it in her master's name; it was given back to another letter-carrier, who brought it to me—I believe the prisoner was asked on the Monday night to do some other work, to which he objected, he said he had not got through his own work—he had been about five months in the service—he was a slow hand at sorting, not particularly clumsy—I told Mr. Hawkins the inspector that he was not a quick man—I can't say whether he was spoken to about it—I think on one occasion the

prisoner brought me a letter containing some small coin, and I charged double registration for it—I did not know that the prisoner was about the neighbourhood for three or four days after the Tuesday—I have heard since that he has a mother at Reading—I can't say that she sent him money at times—I paid him his weekly wages, 14s., on the Saturday afternoon—he was supposed to work at some trade besides delivering letters—I have never known the letter-carriers sort their letters in the street after leaving the office.

ELIZA HARRIET YOUNG . I live at 7, Malvern Villas, Kilburn—on Saturday 13th July I was expecting 20l. by letter from the Agra Bank; it I did not arrive—I received a registered letter by an earlier post, but not one from the Agra Bank.

WILLIAM HENRY HILL . I am a letter-carrier at the Kilburn office—on Saturday, 13th July, I delivered the 6 o'clock delivery; among others, I delivered one to Mrs. Young, and got this receipt for it. Cross-examined. The prisoner was on the same walk; he was a quiet, Well-conducted man—I knew he had a mother at Reading, from whom he sometimes received money.

FBEDERICK WINDLE RITCHIE . I am a clerk in the Bank of England—these four 5l. notes were presented to me for payment on 15th July about mid-day—I paid them in gold—the name on them is "W. Jones, 2, Trinity Street, Borough"—that might have been written before—I cannot identify the person who presented them.

THOMAS GASH . I am a clerk in the Bank of England—there are no other notes in circulation of the same number and date.

JONAS WOLF . I live at 2, Trinity Street, Borough, I have lived there 10 years—I do not know anybody named Jones living there—the writing on these notes is not mine.

MATTHEW MOORE . I am a police constable attached to the General Post Office—I apprehended the prisoner on a warrant on 26th July at Caleot, near Reading—I told him I was a police officer from the General Post Office, and I held a warrant for his apprehension—I read the warrant to him, and told him I should take him in custody for stealing a registered letter, also for detaining a number of letters the property of the Postmaster-General—he said he knew nothing about it—he asked me what the letter contained, I said four 5l. Bank of England notes—I searched him, I found nothing on him.

Cross-examined. His mother gave him two shillings to bring some provisions with him.

GEORGE THOMAS ONSLOW . I am an assistant letter-carrier at the Kilburn office, on a different walk to the prisoner—on Monday, 15th July, after finishing my delivery, I met the prisoner in Alfred Terrace, near the office,

he had a letter-bag with him—I said, "Hallo, Bob, have yon finished already?" he said, "No, I have not"—I said "Why?"—he said, "I don't intend to"—he then asked if I would have a glass of beer, and we went to the Sir Isaac Newton and had a glass—he said he had sent to his parents in the country for 10l. in a post-office order—he showed me some money, and I noticed four pieces of gold among the silver—I said, "Bob, you are rather flush of money"—he said, "Yes"—he offered to lend me 10s.—I refused—he said, "Take it, you can pay it me in weekly instalments, or pay me when you like"—I still refused—after some other conversation, he said, "I have taken a registered letter, don't say anything at all about it"—I made him no answer—he asked me to meet him at the Duke of Cambridge public-house that evening; I refused, he was a little excited, I thought he was joking, I did not believe him.

Cross-examined. I was not examined before the Magistrate—I made this statement a few weeks back, I can't tell you the date exactly, my solicitor can, I think, I mean the Post-office—I can't tell whether I told him of it a month or six weeks since—it was after the prisoner's committal—I think I said it was two or three pieces of gold I saw—I will swear there was more than 25s. altogether—he asked me to deliver his letters for him, and offered me 10s. to deliver them—I did not do it, I left him outside the public-house—I am in the office still—I did not hear much talk in the office about the missing letter—I saw the prisoner at the office on the Tuesday morning, and I saw him again on the Thursday morning—he did not tell me that the letter was lost, I am sure he said he had taken it—he did not say the old folks would stand him 10l. if he was fined for not delivering his letters.

Re-examined. I saw some silver in his hand, I could not say how much, he showed me 10s. and there was gold besides—I told one of the letter-carriers about this, and wrote a letter about it on 16th August.

GUILTY Five Years' Penal Servitude. There was another indictment against the prisoner for non-delivery of letters .

NEW COURT.—Tuesday, September 17th, 1878.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-766
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

766. BENJAMIN HAZELDINE (17) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. LLOYD and DE MICHELE conducted the Prosecution. CHARLOTTE BENNETT. I am the wife of William Bennett, who keeps the Roebuek, Whitechapel—on 31s. t July about 9.45 I served the, prisoner with some ale and tobacco—he gave me a shilling—I gave him 10d. change, and he left—I afterwards found it was bad, and showed it to my husband—the prisoner came again in about 10 minutes, and offered me another shilling for some ale—I saw at once that that was bad, bent it, and said, "What, you vagabond, would you offer me two bad shillings within 10 minutes?"—he said "Mrs. Bennett, you would not lock me up, would you, because you know my father?"—I said "I don't care, I shall lock you up," and gave him in custody with the shilling.

WILLIAM TURNER , I keep the Lord Napier, Collingwood Street—on 31st July about 9 p.m. the prisoner and another man came in; the other man called for some drink, and gave me a shilling—I put it in the till—the

prisoner then called for half a pint of half-and-half, and gave me a shilling—I gave him 11d. change, and put it with the other—I afterwards found they were both bad—the man who came in first went out first, and the prisoner passed his drink to a man in the bar, who said he had some of his own, and did not want it—the prisoner went out—there were no other shillings in the till, only a sixpence in silver, which I gave to his friend, in change—the prisoner's change was in coppers—I afterwards picked out the prisoner at the station from 10 or 12 others, and gave the shillings to a policeman—these are them.

THOMAS SMITH (Policeman K 409). I was called to the Roebuck, and took the prisoner—he said he did not know the money was bad, and he had no money—I searched him aud found a good shilling—Mrs. Bennett gave me two bad shillings, and Mr. Turner two bad shillings—the prisoner gave his address Benjamin Hazeldine, 17, Wellington Street, Whitechapel.

ROBERT ANDREWS . I keep the Prince of Wales, Commercial Road—on 31st July I served the prisoner with a pennyworth of tobacco—he gave me a shilling, and called for a pint of ale—I then found the shilling was bad—he said he took it in the City for carrying a parcel—he was searched in the bar, and as no more was found on him I let him go; but I went to the station on the 6th and picked him out from 10 or 12 others—I have no doubt he is the man.

CHARLES BEAKS (Policeman H 133). On 31st July I was called to the Prince of Wales—the prisoner was there and Mr. Andrews gave me a bad shilling—the prisoner said "I was not aware it was bad, a gentleman gave it to me in the City for carrying a box"—I found a penny on him—he gave his name Henry Hazeldine, 17, Wellington Street, Ray Street, White chapel—I am sure he said "Henry"—I let him go.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These live coins are bad; the first two are of 1875, and of the same mould; the next two are of 1871 and 1875—that of 1875 is from the same mould as the first two—the single one is of 1871, and is from the same mould as the other.

Prisoner's Defence. I never gave that man two bad shillings; I only gave him one.

GUILTY .— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-767
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

767. MARK TAYLOR, alias HARRIS (26) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. LLOYD and DE MICHELE conducted the Prosecution.

CAROLINE BRYANT . I live at the Old Ship Tavern, Chichester Rents—on August 10, about 6.30, I served the prisoner with a pint of stout—he tendered a florin—I took it to my sister in the next bar; the prisoner could see me and hear what I said—she said it was bad, and another man who was in the bar ran away—the prisoner ran directly afterwards without waiting for his change—I made a communication to Mr. Duff, who went out, and shortly afterwards the prisoner was brought back by two constables—I charged him and gave the florin to the constable—one of the constables, Badger, was in plain clothes, and I mistook him for a moment for the prisoner's accomplice, being rather confused.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. No one saw it but my sister and Mr. Duff—I did not pass it to any one else—Mr. Duff kept it—when Badger brought you back, I accused him very positively with being the man who was with you—I was very confused—my mother has since told me that she

said the same—she is not here—she does not believe now that Badger is the man—there is a strong resemblance between the man and Badger, who is a fair man—I did not hear you say when you ran out "I will go after him, the money belongs to me."

JAMES EDWARD DUFF . I am a clerk, and live at 3, Eardley Crescent—on 10th August I was at the Old Ship, and saw the prisoner through the glass and somebody with him—Miss Bryant made a communication to me, and I saw the prisoner going out—I did not hear him say anything—I went out after him, and saw the man who has escaped turn to the right, and the prisoner to the left—he turned into Chancery Lane, and then into Bream's Court, where he turned round and faced me, and I caught hold of him till Badger came up and took him to the Old Ship—he refused to let Badger search him—he said "You are my accomplice, you have just been drinking."

Cross-examined. I said on the 19th that you turned to the right—you must go two or three steps to the right to get into the road—that would take you to Chancery Lane—I heard Miss Bryant charge Badger with being an accomplice—I forget whether her mother said the same, but I heard the mother say she would lock Badger up—they did not seem to have any doubt—I saw the other man's back and legs as he ran down the court.

JAMES BADGER (Policeman E 473). On 10th August I came from Victoria Station on the top of an omnibus, and in Chancery Lane I saw the prisoner run out of Carey Street—I was in plain clothes—I jumped down and joined in the chase for nearly 200 yards—I saw Duff catch hold of the prisoner—he said "Bring him back," and I took him to the Ship—Miss Bryant, who had a counterfeit florin in her hand, said to the prisoner "You gave me this, you know it is bad, don't never come here again"—he said nothing—I asked her if she would charge him—she said "Yes"—I told him I was a constable, and should search him—he said with an oath that I should not—a constable in uniform came in and the prisoner caught hold of me by the arm and said to him "This is the man, this is my accomplice, why don't you take him!"—he said several times in a loud voice "You hear the lady say she will charge him, why don't you take him?"—the prisoner was taken to the station—I searched him and found a half-crown, two shillings, three sixpences, and 1s. 2 1/2d. in bronze all good—he told the Magistrate that he ran after the other man to catch him, but I saw no one in front of him.

Cross-examined. You said "This is my accomplice"—you also said "He is the accomplice"—I did not hear the landlady say anything, you were shouting so loudly that I could hear nothing else—I was going to get down in Holborn—I was not drinking at the Old Ship with you—I did not hear the landlady say "That is the man that was drinking with him, that is the man that was in here"—I was sober.

GEORGE HUTCHINGS (Policeman E 400). On 10th August I was in Chancery Lane, and saw the prisoner in Duff's custody—I followed them into the Old Ship, and heard the landlady say "That is the accomplice"—she accused Badger of being the prisoner's accomplice—I did not hear what Miss Bryant said—the prisoner said "Don’t you hear what the landlady says? give him into custody, he is my accomplice, why don't you take him?"—I told the landlady that I knew he was Constable Badger, No. 473—the prisoner kept on shouting "He is my accomplice"—he did not say "He is the accomplice"—Badger and I took him to the station—he told

Badger to keep his hands from his pockets, and not put any bad money in them.

Cross-examined. I heard the landlady say that she would lock Badger up, and then I told her he was a constable—she was very positive—the law would allow me to take a brother constable in custody—I told the landlady it could not be him—he followed to the station, and could have been charged there.

WILLIAM WEBSTER I am Inspector of coin to the Mint—this is a bad coin.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I was drinking with a man very like Badger. I was with him in Holborn, and we got talking. I was rather the worse for liquor. We went to the Old Ship, and he said, 'Call for a pint of stout and mild, I'll pay for it' I said, 'No, I have some coppers, I'll pay for it.' He said 'Never mind.' He took out a florin, put it on the counter, and said, 'Pay for it,' putting it to me, and he asked me to call for a cigar. While I asked for it he ran out. The barmaid said the coin was bad, and I said 'I'll fetch him back.' I ran to fetch him back, and believe I ran in the same direction as him. I saw a man turn up a street, but when I saw he was not there I stopped, intending to go back to the public-house. When Mr. Duff came up, he said, 'I must take you back to the public-house. I said,' There's no need, I'm going there. 'Badger then came back, and they took me to the public-house. The barmaid then said,' He is an accomplice, I shall accuse him as well, 'meaning Badger. Some one behind said' Yes, he was in here, drinking with him.' Badger wanted to search me; I objected, as the barmaid said he was an accomplice, and as I believed he was the man who was with me, and do now believe he was the man. Badger took some money out of my pocket in the house, and at the station he searched me, and I gave him a correct name and address, and where I worked."The Prisoner produced a written defence, repeating the above statement, and maintaining that Badger was the man who drank with him, and passed the florin to him. GUILTY . He was further charged with a previous conviction of a like offence in September, 1875, to which he PLEADED GUILTY**.— Seven Years' Penal Servitude .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-768
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

768. JOHN HOLLAND (18) , Unlawfully uttering a medal resembling a sovereign, with intent to defraud.

MESSRS. LLOYD and DE MICHELE conducted the Prosecution. RICHARD STERNS. I keep the World's End, Ben Jonson Road, Stepney—I saw my niece serve the prisoner with two pots of ale—there were three or four others with him—he tendered a Hanoverian medal—my niece gave it to me, and he asked me to give him change for a sovereign—I said "I will give you change in a minute, I am busy," and sent for the police—I then told him it was bad, and asked him where he got it—he said that it was given him by Colour-Sergeant Mackenzie at the Globe Road barracks—I asked him for his regimental number—he said "I have forgotten it"—I asked him the number of his company, and I think he said "82"—he was perfectly sober—I gave the coin to a constable.

ALICE ROBINSON . I am barmaid at the World's End—I served the prisoner with two pots of ale—two or three other men were with him—he put down a medal like this, and said "Take it out of this sovereign"—I gave it to Mr. Sterns, and he was given in custody.

JOSEPH PEARCE (Policeman K 584). I was called and took the prisoner—he said "I cannot help it, I got it from Colour-Sergeant Mackenzie,'H' Company, 2nd Queen's Own Tower Hamlets Militia," and that the "H" Company were at Globe barracks—I searched him, and found a shilling, two sixpences, and 11 1/2d. in bronze—after he was charged he said "It is no use my telling you a lie, I did not get it from Sergeant Mackenzie at all, I picked it up in White Horse Lane; I thought I would try and pass it to see if it was a good one"—he was sober.

WILLIAM WEBSTAR . This is a Hanoverian medal, a whist-marker, and it is the best I have seen.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate."I picked it up, I did not know if it was good. I did try to change it I had been drinking. I did not know what I was doing."

GUILTY .— Four Months' Imprisonment .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-769
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > other institution

Related Material

769. ANN HARTLEY (31) and GRACE WILLIAMS (12) , Feloniously having in their possession a mould for coining.

MESSRS. E. LLOYD and DE MICHELE conducted the Prosecution. RICHARD BRIGSTOCK. I am a corndealer of 128, Columbia Road, Bethnal Green—on 24th July, in the morning, I served Williams with half a pound of flour, which came to 1d.—she tendered a bad shilling—I asked her several questions, which she answered—I watched her and saw her join Hartley—they came towards where I was standing—then the little girl went back out of my sight—Hartley waited at the corner of Columbia Road till Williams came back—Williams then went into a sweet stuflf shop and came out and joined Hartley again—the prisoners then went down Raven Street, which is in a line with Hackney Road—Williams crossed Hackney Road and went into the Victoria public-house, Cambridge Street—I pointed out the prisoners to a constable before they Went into the Victoria.

Cross-examined by Hartley. I did not say at the station that I did not see your little girl—you had a baby with you also.

MARGARET COX . I am a widow, and keep the Victoria public-house, Great Cambridge Street—on 24th July I served Williams with three halfpennyworth of gin—she gave me a bad shilling—I said "Who gave you this shilling?"—she said "A woman in the street"—I said "Go and fetch that woman to me"—she went out and I went to the door and saw Brigstock and a policeman—Williams was crossing the road with two children—the policeman brought Hartley to the door and said "Is that the little girl that brought the shilling?"—I said "Yes," and gave the shilling to him—he broke a piece out of it.

JOHN CLARKE (Policeman H 132). I saw Williams going from the Victoria, public-house—I had seen her join Hartley in Great Cambridge Street before that—afterwards I saw her join Hartley again—in consequence of what Brigstock said to me I took the prisoners back to the Victoria, and they were afterwards taken to the station and searched—Hartley gave her address 20, Kay Street—I went there, and from there to 23, Wimbolt Street—124 H was with me—Matilda Keats pointed out the back parlour to me—the door was locked, but the key was in the door outside—I searched the room and found a board in a cupboard, and upon it those five counterfeit shillings—I also found this mould on the top of the cupboard, this bowl of a spoon in a box, and a little fused metal under the

grate, this iron spoon and this other spoon and knife—I took them to the station and showed them to Hartley—she said she knew nothing about them and that she did not live there—at the police-court she said "It is no use concealing the fact, I do live there, but I have only occupied the place four days"—Margaret Cox gave me this bad shilling.

JAMES HARINGOLD (Policeman H 124). I was with Brigstock in Raven Street, who pointed the prisoners out to me; they were together—I followed them—I saw Williams go into the Victoria, and Hartley went in that direction—Williams came out of the Victoria with a child in her arms—I went in and made inquiries, and afterwards followed the little girl—I took both prisoners back to the Victoria—I went with Clarke to Wimbolt Street—I have heard Clarke's evidence and agree with it—I saw these articles (produced) in the back parlour.

MATILDA KEATS . I am the wife of Thomas Keats, a plumber, of 23, Wimbolt Street—on 19th July Hartley took a back parlour in our house, and came in on the 20th with Williams and another child—on the 24th I pointed the room out to the constable—I saw the constable go into the room and find some counterfeit money and the other articles produced.

Cross-examined by Hartley. A lodger opened the door to some one who called on you—I did not notice whether it was to offer you work or not.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This is a mould for making shillings—these five shillings were made in it—this shilling passed at the Victoria is from the same mould—they are badly made—these things found in the parlour of 23, Wimbolt Street are used in coining.

Hartley's Defence. I cannot say how I came to have those things unless Mrs. Wakeling left them. I went to inquire for work and did not come home on Tuesday night till 10 p.m.; and here is another address given me since I have been in prison where I have been at work.

Grace Williams's Defence. It is true what my mother says, Mrs. Wakeling brought those things to our house.

GUILTY . HARTLEY— Five Years' Penal' Servitude. WILLAMS— Three Years in a Reformatory.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-770
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment; Imprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

770. FREDERICK CALLARD (19), MARY ANN CRAWLEY (25), MARGARET CALLARD (38), MICHAEL CRAWLEY (57) , Feloniously making counterfeit coin, to which MARY ANN CRAWLEY PLEADED GUILTY .

MESSRS. E. LLOYD and DE MICHELE conducted the Prosecution.

FREDERICK ABERLINE (Police Inspector H). I have for some time, with other officers, watched the prisoners—on 2nd September I went with Thick to 24, Old Church Road, Stepney, about 7 p.m.—the door was fastened—I forced it open with my shoulder, and we went into a small room—the blind was down—I saw Frederick and Margaret Callard and Mary Ann Crawley sitting round a small table in the centre of the room—some coins were on the table and some on a plate—Mary Ann Crawley smashed the plate—I picked it up—it was wet—they all sprang up immediately I went in—something was swept into Margaret Callard's lap, and they all rushed into the back kitchen, a small back room, and Margaret Callard threw the things from her lap into the grate—I caught hold of Margaret and Frederick Callard, and Thick caught hold of M. A. Crawley, who was so violent that Thick put her on the floor and held her till we got assistance—another man was there who escaped over the wall—I called in two constables, and the

three prisoners were given into their charge—we searched the room, and picked up 33 counterfeit shillings, some finished and some unfinished, and two "gets"—some of the coins were quite hot—there was a small fire—I saw Thick open this rag and find 17 counterfeit shillings; some were more finished than others, which had pieces of metal on their edges—26 coins were of 1873 and 24 of 1843—under the stoke-hole I found these two pieces of metal, which fit into this ladle which I found on the floor—I found these pincers on the table of the room we first entered, and these three small files, and on a dresser this spoon with some plaster-of-Paris on it, and this copper wire on the floor—I saw Mary Ann Crawley throw on to the floor of the closet, near the back door, this piece of flannel with sand in it—I searched a cupboard in the front room, and found a quantity of plasterof-Paris—in the dresser in the back kitchen I found this bottle of liquid—I found this shell containing plaster-of-Paris—I searched the room immediately above, but only found a piece of whitening—those are the only rooms in the house—I took Frederick Callard to the station—before leaving the house I told the prisoners they must consider themselves in custody for having counterfeit coin in their possession, also a mould for making them—Frederick Callard said, "Very well, I will go quietly with you"—M. A. Crawley said, "They belong to Old Bill, and you know as much about them as I do "—she was violent, and put herself in a threatening attitude towards Thick, and said she would do for him before she left—we took them to the station Frederick Callard said at the station, "The less said the better," or words to that effect—the charge was read over to them—I produce a shilling of 1873 which I received from Talbot.

WILLIAM THICK (Police Sergeant H). I went with Aberline to 29, Old Church Road—I saw him force the door open—I saw Frederick and Margaret Callard and M. A. Crawley sitting round a small table; each had a file; they were filing the edges of the coin which was on the table—they jumped up immediately—I saw a fourth man, who escaped at the back—they halloed, and made a tremendous noise—M. A. Crawley said, "Oh, my God, we are all done"—they also said, "You can search, you won't find anything"—we searched, and found these articles produced—I have heard Aberline's evidence, and corroborate it—I asked them to account for the articles—M. A. Crawley said, "They all belong to Old Bill;" also, "You have got us all straight, you have been a long time doing it," and that she would do for me before I left the room—she reached over and tried to get a knife, and I had to throw her down, she was soviolent—on 4th September I was at Stratford Petty Sessions—Michael Crawley was discharged there—I took him in custody—I told him it was for being concerned with Frederick and Margaret Callard and M. A. Crawley in having a quantity of counterfeit coin. in their possession, and tools for making the same, at 29, Old Church Road, Stepney, on the 2nd inst—he said, "I don't live there; you know as much about it as I do; I knew some of them would soon get into trouble when I fell, I never serve anybody else with them, I can't help what they do when I am away, if Moll had not got drunk this would not have occurred"—he asked me who had charge of the house—I said I had the key, and should keep it till the case was disposed of—he also said, "What about the things in the room?". I suppose the landlord will keep them, as there is a fortnight's rent owing'—I took him to the station.

JOHN CAVELEY . I am a general dealer, of 24, Old Church Road. I let No. 29 about ten weeks ago to Michael Crawley, who said he was a stevedore, a labouring man, and his name was Thompson—he wrote "Thompson" in the rent book—he paid two weeks' rent—he said he wanted the house for him and his missis—he lived there a fortnight—I saw M. A. Crawley there—he called her his missie.

Cross-examined by Michael Crawley. I borrowed a van for you, and helped you to unload your goods—I did not see any coining articles in the van.

MART ANN JOWERS . I live at the Red Lion beerhouse, Plaiatow—on 29th August I served Michael Crawley with half a pint of fourpenny ale—he tendered a bad shilling—I gave it to Mr. Marsh, the landlord, who told him that he had been in the house six or seven weeks ago, and passed a bad shilling—he denied it, and said that he had never been in the house before—Mr. Marsh gave him in custody—this is the shilling—I marked it with ' my teeth.

WILLIAM MARSH . I keep the Red Lion, Plaistow—on 29th August my barmaid gave me a bad shilling—I showed it to Michael Crawley, and told him it was bad—he said that he did not know it—I told him he had been in my house live or six weeks ago tendering a bad shilling—that was a fact—he denied it, and said that he had never been there before—I sent for a policeman—I saw the prisoner put something in his mouth like money, and swallow it—I gave the shilling to the policeman.

Cross-examined by Michael Crawley, I did not pass the shilling to a customer.

RICHARD STEPHENSON TALBOT (Policeman). I am quartered at West Ham—on 29th August I was called to the Red 'Lion, and Michael Crawley was given into my custody by Mr. Marsh, with this bad shilling of 1873—I marked it, and chained him with tendering it—he said, "I did not know it was a bad one"—I searched him there, and found this purse, which contained, in good money, half-a-crown, two shillings, three sixpences, and 5 1/2d. in bronze—he was remanded till 4th September, and then discharged at the instance of Thick. I gave the shilling to Aberline.

ADAM BOLT . I keep the Enterprise public-house. Mile End—on 18th July, about 11 p.m., I served Frederick and Margaret Callard with a pint of ale—Margaret tendered a bad florin—I asked her if she had any more of those—she said "Why?"—I said, "You know very well it is not good"—she said she did not know it was bad—a man came in and stood between the two, and called for half a pint of ale my wife served him while I was talking to the prisoner—I saw something pass—he went away—I stopped Frederick and Margaret Callard, and sent for a policeman and gave him the florin—I marked it—this is it.

ALBERT BOLT (Policeman H 117), was called to the Enterprise on 18th July—I asked the two Callards how they came by the bad florin—Margaret said a gentleman had given it to her—she afterwards said that she got it from a public-house in Bishopsgate—I asked them for their names—Frederick Callard said "Frederick Davis," and Margaret Callard said "Anne Williams—I asked her where she lived—she said she had no home—I received this bad florin from Bolt—a penny was found on the man—they were taken before the Magistrate, remanded to 23rd July, then to 30th July, and again to 6th August, and then discharged.

WILLIAM LAWRENCE CROW . My father keeps the Railway Tavern, Commercial Road, Stepney—on 19th June I served the two female prisoners and Michael Crawley with a pot of four penny ale—Michael Crawley gave me a bad shilling—I broke it and threw the two halves in the road—he then paid with a good one—I gave him the change, and he went away—I pointed the prisoners out to my father, who told the police sergeant to watch—them—the females drank with Crawley.

PATRICK MCCARTHY (Policeman K 55). On 19th June, about 11 p.m, Mr. Crow's father made a communication to me, in consequence of which I followed Michael and Mary Ann Crawley about half a mile—I overtook them in the Commercial Road, and took them in custody—at the station Michael Crawley gave his name George Jones—they were brought up before the Magistrate at the Thames police-court on 25th June and discharged—I did not see the other female.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These 42 shillings of 1843, and eight of 1873, are all bad—these other coins which have been spoken to are all bad—all these articles produced are used in connection with coining.

Cross-examined by Michael Crawley. This is an acid in this bottle—I do not think it is sugar of lead.

Frederick Callard's Defence. The young man who got away brought the coins. I met him near White chapel Church; he asked me to go with him. I went nearly to Old Church Road. He asked me if I would have anything to do with it I said "No," although I was without money, and had my father at home with a broken leg, and my mother only just got over a bad illness.

Margaret Callard's Defence. Mary Ann Crawley asked me to go home with her and make some tea, as she was ill I did so, and that is how I came there.

Michael Crawley's Defence. On the 26th I took a bad shilling, and got locked up for it I was away from home, and knew nothing about what was going on there. I am innocent.


Margaret Callard had been twice convicted of uttering counterfeit coin, and Inspector Aberline stated that Michael Crawley was known as Old Bill Wybrow, "and" The King of the Smashers; "that he was the son of Margaret Callard, and lived with Mary Ann Crawley whose husband is undergoing penal servitude.

FREDERICK CALLARD— Twelve Month's Imprisonment. MARGARET CALLARD**— Seven Years' Penal Servitude. MARY ANN CRAWLEY— Eighteen Months Imprisonment. MICHAEL CRAWLEY— Seven Years'Penal Servitude .

The Jury considered that the Inspector and Sergeant ought to receive a reward, in which the COURT concurred, considering it a most important capture; and directed that a recommendation should be made to the Treasury to that effect.

OLD COURT—Wednesday, September 18th, 1878.

Before Mr. Justice Denman. (For the case of Thomas Smithers, see Surrey cases.)

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-771
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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771. HENRY VENN (68) , Feloniously and carnally knowing and abusing Harriet Roberts.

MR. SAFFORD conduced the Prosecution.


16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-772
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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772. HENRY VENN was again indicted for indecent assault on the same person.

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-773
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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773. MICHAEL MCELLIGOTT (13) , Feloniously wounding John Driscoll, with intent to do grievous bodily harm.

MR. WARNER SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution; and MR. AUSTIN METCALFE the Defence.

JOHN DRISCOLL . I am 12 years old, and live at 38, Wells Street, Poplar—on 15th January about 4.15 I was in Wade Street, coming from school—there was a rank of boys walking two and two—the prisoner was part of the school, and was one or two ranks in front of me—I had my books in a strap in my hand—I stepped forward, hit the prisoner with the strap, and walked on, and he turned round and hit me in the back, just under my shoulder bone—I did not see what with—it hurt me, and I staggered and fell and fainted—I was taken to the hospital Cross-examined. I did not see him strike me—I don't know whether he struck me deliberately, or whether he tumbled against me—he did not say anything—I had been playing with him on the way—we had been very good friends—we had never had any quarrel—he bears a very good character in the school, and has a good-conduct medal.

DANIEL LEARY . I was walking with the school, keeping the ranks—I saw Driscoll run up to the prisoner—there was some discussion between them—Driscoll hit the prisoner with a strap, and the prisoner turned round, and he appeared to me as though he fell against him, as if he could not help it—I saw his hand go behind his back—I saw something in his hand, I can't say what it was—it glittered like steel and Driscoll fainted—I did not hear anything said about a knife.

JEREMIAH MINEHAM . I was walking with the other boys—I saw Driscoll hit the prisoner with a strap, and the prisoner immediately stabbed him with a knife in the back; he had been using the knife in school paring his nails—he had it in his hand at this time, it was done suddenly.

ALFRED ANSON (Police Sergeant K R). I took the prisoner into custody,—he said, "I was paring my nails with my knife when one of the boys hit me with a belt, it was Driscoll; another one hit me in the back; I did not intend to hurt him like that"—I said, "Have you got a knife about you?" he said, "No"—he afterwards produced it from a box.

Cross-examined. I have ascertained that the prisoner is not yet fourteen, his father is here.

WILLIAM HUGHES . I am house-surgeon at Poplar Hospital—an 15th January Driscoll was brought there; he was suffering from an incised chest wound, penetrating to the pleural cavity; it was about an inch long, and about half-an-inch deep; it was rather of a dangerous character, and he has been suffering since from inflammation of the pleura—it would require some force to cause such a wound—the knife produced could have caused it, it is very blunt.


16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-774
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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774. JOHN POCOCK (13) , Feloniously shooting at Elizabeth Casson, with intent to do grievous bodily harm.

MR. RIBTON conducted the Prosecution; and MR. WARNER SLEIGH the Defence.

ELIZA CASSON . I am the wife of Samuel Casson, of Turner's Court, Bow Street—on Tuesday, 13th August, I saw the prisoner in the court, he had something in his hand, like a pistol, showing another boy how to fire it—shortly afterwards my little girl was brought in with a wound in the cheek which was bleeding, I took her to the doctor—she has quite recovered.

EMILY GAY . I was in Turner's Court and saw the prisoner there, there were four little children there—the prisoner had a pistol in his hand showing it to a boy, and said, "You fire it"—the boy said, "No, I shall not. I am frightened of the police"—one of the little girls kicked him because he would not let us go by—he said, "I will shoot you all," and he let the pistol off in the little girl's face, and hit her.

EDWARD SETON PATTESON . I was house-surgeon at Charing Cross Hospital, the child was brought there suffering from a punctured wound in the right cheek—I administered chloroform and extracted a small shot; it had gone in about three quarters of an inch in an oblique direction, and had lodged underneath the edge of the bone; I believe she has quite recovered—it has left a mark—if it had hit her in the eye it would have put it out—there was a slight graze behind the right ear, which might have been caused by a second shot

WILLIAM FAIRMAN (Policeman E 29). I apprehended the prisoner on this night about 8.30, at a coffee-shop in Chandos Street, where he had been living for about a week—I told him I should take him into custody for shooting this child with a pistol—he said, "I have not got a pistol; I sold it at half-past 10 this morning to a boy at Buckingham Palace Gate"—this little pistol was afterwards given to me by Keziah Clark.

KEZIAH CLARK . I am servant at 43, Chandos Street—the prisoner was in the habit of having his meals there in the coffee-room—on Saturday 17th August, this pistol was found there under the seat in a corner, by a gentleman—the policeman afterwards had it—the prisoner had been there every day that week.

James Selman, the prisoner's father, gave him a good character, and stated that he was thirteen years of age. NOT GUILTY .

NEW COURT.—Wednesday September 18, 1878.

Before Mr. Justice Lopes.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-775
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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775. CHARLES EDWARD HUGALL (31) PLEADED GUILTY to feloniously forging and uttering an endorsement to a security for the payment of 616l. 3s. 6d. with intent to defraud. There were three other indictments against the prisoner, to which he PLEADED NOT GUILTY, upon which MR. LAWRENCE, for the Prosecution, did not proceed, but stated that the forgeries traced to the prisoner amounted to 3,012l. 11s. 6d, exclusive of the present indictment.— Seven Years' Penal Servitude .

(For the other cases tried this day, see Kent and Surrey cases.)

THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, September 18th, 1878.

Before Mr. Recorder.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-776
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

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776. WILLIAM MURPHY (38) and JOHN GRAHAM (33) PLEADED GUILTY to a burglary in the dwelling-house of William Dent, and stealing two coats and other goods, and 15s. 9d. his property. MURPHY also PLEADED GUILTY to having been convicted of felony on 2nd January, 1877, at the General Quarter Sessions at Chelmsford.— Fifteen Months' Imprisonment . GRAHAM— Six Months' Imprisonment .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-777
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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777. GEORGE WILKIE (28) to stealing twenty-eight handkerchiefs, goods of Bosville John Mills, his master— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Six Months' Imprisonment ; and

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-778
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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778. EDWARD CHARLES THURSTON (21) to stealing nineteen valuable securities. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] He was strongly recommended to mercy by the Prosecution on account of his youth.— Four Months' Imprisonment.

FOURTH COURT.—Wednesday, September 18th, 1878.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-779
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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779. JOHN MORGAN (56) PLEADED GUILTY ** to stealing 100l., the moneys of Henry Heath.— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-780
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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780. HENRY JEPSON (50) to marrying Eliza Matilda Hildrow, his wife being alive— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Six Months' Imprisonment.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-781
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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781. JOHN JONES** (25) to burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Thomas Rock, and stealing therein a coat and other articles and 16s. 4d. in money.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Eighteen Months' Imprisonment . And

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-782
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty

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782. JAMES THOMAS ROLLISON (45) to feloniously uttering a forged order for the delivery of mustard, also to stealing a book of the goods of John White.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Nine Months' Imprisonment.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-783
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment; Imprisonment

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783. WILLIAM FROOME (28), JAMES SMITH (19), and WILLIAM TOWNSEND (20) , Robbery on Phillip Shrives and stealing a chain, to which TOWNSEND PLEADED GUILTY .

MR. HURRELL conducted the Prosecution, PHILLIP SHRIVES (Police Sergeant N). At about 12.30 a.m. on 13th August I was at the corner of High Street, Islington, by the Angel—a

female came up to me and stopped, and I spoke to her for a minute or two—I had seen her at the West End some years ago—I saw the prisoners standing four or five yards from me—they remained there for two or three

minutes, when Smith and Townsend walked towards the Liverpool Road on the left—they soon returned and spoke to Froome—while they were talking I walked away, and the female walked up by my side towards Liverpool Road—when about half way between the Angel and White Lion Street, Smith and Townsend passed me—they walked on in front, and Froome was following close by—when they arrived at the comer of White Lion Street they turned round and faced me—I was wearing a watch-chain across my waistcoat, attached to my watch, which I had pinned in my pocket—Townsend took hold of my chain with his right hand and shoved me with his left—I seized him by the collar, and was struck a violent blow by Smith at the side of my head—I was struck several times after, but I cannot say by whom—Townsend struggled very violently to get away—I stuck to him and was thrown to the ground and kicked by Townsend and others—I cannot say by who else—Cocks came to my assistance—there were a great

many people about, it being just after the public-houses cloeed—there was a great crowd, and I was knocked about very much—while I was on the ground trying to get my chain from Townsend, I saw him pass it to Froome—my watch remained in my pocket, and the swivel—Constable Butcher arrived, and I handed Townsend over to him, and saw Cocks secure Smith—he was handed over to another constable—we walked on a little way, and I saw Froome following behind a little way off—I took him in custody, and took him to the station—nothing was found on Townsend or Smith—3s. 9d., I think, was found on Froome—my leg was very much hurt, and I was laid up and on the sick list nearly a month—the value of the chain was about 3l.—they made no answer when the charge was read over to them.

Cross-examined by Smith. You were with the others, and struck me a violent blow—I saw Cocks take hold of you.

Cross-examined by Froome. When you came across the road I did not say, "Here is another of them; let us have him in as well"—you were with the others—I saw Townsend hand the chain to you—I don't know what, you did with it

WILLIAM BUTCHER (Policeman 434 N). I was in High Street, Islington, at about 12.40, and heard cries of "Thief," and saw the people running towards the end of White Lion Street—I ran, and saw a large crowd, and Townsend and Shrives were just in the act of getting up—I caught hold of Townsend, and Shrives told me to take him on towards the station—there he was charged with the others with assaulting Shrives and stealing his watch chain—I searched Froome and found 3s. 9 1/2d. upon him—the charge was read over—they said nothing—I. did not search the others—I saw them together from 10.30 the same evening up to the time I took Townsend—when I came up Smith was struggling with Cocks—I came back from the station on to my beat, and searched about White Lion Street, and about five or six yards from where I took Townsend I found the chain.

Cross-examined by Smith. When I apprehended Townsend you were in Cocks' custody—you struggled to get away from him—Thompson brought you to the station—I have seen you with Froome and Townsend within the last five or six weeks.

Cross-examined by Froome. You were taken in White Lion Street—I saw you with the others from 10.30.

GEORGE THOMPSON (Policeman 278 N). At about 12.50 I saw Smith struggling with Cocks—I took him in custody—he said nothing. Cross-examined by Smith. I did not see you at the Angel before. Cross-examined by Froome. I did not see you that night—I have seen you other nights.

GEORGE COCKS . I live at 7, Pleasant Row, Essex Road—I was at the Angel, Islington, and saw the three prisoners pass me; I was walking towards home—Townsend and Smith went on and then turned back and made a rush at Shrives, and I saw Townsend take something bright from Shrives's pocket—Smith tried to prevent him collaring Townsend—Shrives got hold of Townsend and they both fell—Froome then came up and commenced kicking Shrives; in fact they were both kicking—I seized Townsend's right hand, and he passed something bright from his right to his left, and then to Froome—I assisted Shrives as far as I could—we were both kicked, but Shrives was kicked terribly—I was on the ground struggling with Townsend—then I seized Smith and handed him over to Thompson and followed up to the station.

Cross-examined by Smith. I saw you strike and kick Shrives—there were a great many people there.

Cross-examined by Froome. You kicked Shrives, and when he was on the ground the other prisoner passed something bright to you.

JESSIE WOOD . I was walking with the prosecutor and saw it all take place.

Cross-examined by Smith. This occurred at about 12.40—you were with Townsend—I can positively swear to you—I saw you strike Shrives at the side of his head, and you held him down and kicked him.

Witness for Smith. WILLIAM TOWNSEND (The Prisoner, Examined by Smith). You were not with me drinking on the evening of the 13th—I cannot answer to your kicking or striking Shrives—I don't know you. Examined by Froome. You were not with me. Smith's Defence. I was proceeding home, and as I came to White Lion Street, I was seized hold of by the collar, and he said "You are one of them." I was taken to the police-station and charged with being concerned with the other two. I know nothing of the matter. I have been to sea for two and a half years, and had only been home a fortnight when this happened. When Townsend got to the station he could not give his name; he was the worse for drink.

Froome's Defence. I was standing near the public-house, and saw a crowd and went to the corner, and as soon as I got there Shrives turned round and got hold of me. I said "What are you taking me for?" and he said "I will let you know when I get you to the station." I said "I will go quiet," and I went down and see these two men standing in the dock. Shrives said "I accuse this man." I was searched and nothing was found on me. I was taken at the corner of Upper Street. Butcher went back an hour and a half after and found the chain in White Lion Street.

GUILTY . FROOME was furthered charged with having been convicted of felony in March, 1875, to which he PLEADED GUILTY**— Seven Years' Penal Servitude . TOWNSEND received a good character— Nine Months' Imprisonment . SMITH— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment .

OLD COURT.—Thursday, September 19th, 1878.

Before Mr. Justice Denman.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-784
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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784. JOSEPH CANTOR (26) was indicted for and charged on the Coroner's Inquisition with feloniously killing and slaying John Greyburn.

MR. CARTER conducted the Prosecution; and MESSRS. BESLEY and MR. WILLIAMS the Defence. ELLEN BANGLE. I am the wife of James Bangle, of 10, Little North Street, Whitechapel—on Saturday night, 6th July, I had been out late to market, and about 11.50 I was talking with Mrs. Chivers on her doorstep—I heard a noise coming from Nelson Court, 2 or 3 yards across the road—we went to the entrance of the court and saw Mr. Greyburn standing against Cantor's door, and Mrs. Greyburn against the wall—Mrs. Cantor was up at her first-floor window; her front door was closed—they were abusing each other—we stood there four or five minutes, when the prisoner came into the court and asked Mrs. Greyburn what all this disturbance found the house was about—she said his mother had been calling her bad names—he said "I dare

say she had occasion to do so"—he knocked it his door and Mrs. Cantor opened it, and she leant out over the threshold of the door and struck Mrs. Greyburn twice on the head with a stick, and the stick broke—Mrs. Greyburn was then talking to some women—she was not attacking anybody, there was no struggling—as Mrs. Cantor went to go indoors the prisoner came out and struck Mr. Greyburn on the head with a poker—I can't say whether it was once or twice—that was the first I had seen of a poker—Greyburn was standing by the door talking to some men about horse-racing; he was not trying to get into the house; I believe he had had a little to drink, but I did not notice that he was drunk; he was not talking particularly loud—he had a tall stiff hat on—there were a great many people collected in the court by this time—the blow appeared to be very hard, it hit him on the hat; he went with great force like that (describing)—I did not see anything in Greyburn's hand or in his wife's

Cross-examined. I am a friend of Mrs. Chivers—I did not talk the matter over with her before I gave evidence before the Coroner—I did not hear her give her evidence there, I did at Worship Street—I have not mentioned before to-day about Greyburn talking on racing matters, I don't remember Mrs. Chivers referring to it—I did not hear Mr. Greyburn use abusive language, I heard very high words between the two women—Mr. Greyburn did not kick against the door whilst I was there, no stones were thrown at Mrs. Cantor's window, or any glass broken—I did not see Mr. and Mrs. Greyburn burst open Cantor's door before the prisoner came—I did not see Mrs. Greyburn spit in his face, or Mr. and Mrs. Greyburn seize hold of him—I did not hear Mrs. Greyburn call out to her daughter "Emma, go and fetch the poker"—I did not hear any one call out, "Why don't you come out in the court and fight"—I did not hear the word "coward" used.

By the COURT. Mrs. Chivers and I were together all the time—I did not know any of the parties, I never saw the prisoner before, I had seen Mrs. Cantor at the door once or twice, just to pass the time of day—I knew nothing at all of the Greyburns—we were in the court four or five minutes before the poker was used, during that time the women were quarrelling and calling each other very bad names, I believe they were quarrelling about the character of Mrs. Cantor's daughters—Mr. Greyburn was standing close to the door when the prisoner struck him—when the prisoner first came out with the poker, he made two or three steps after a child, and then he came back and struck the man and then the woman, they were close together—I never saw my husband with Greyburn—I don't know that he was an acquaintance of his.

EMMA CHIVERS . I live with my husband, who is a clerk at Pickford's, at 8, Little North Street, Whitechapel—about 12 o'clock on this Saturday night, I was talking with Mrs. Bangle at my door, I heard a noise of quarrell ing in Nelson Court, and we went over—I saw Mrs. Cantor and Mrs. Greyburn quarrelling—Mrs. Cantor was up at the window, and Mrs. Greyburn was in the court outside the door, she was using the bad language—Mr. Greyburn was standing close against the door, it was shut, the alter cation went on for four or five minutes; the prisoner then came into the court—I heard him ask Mrs. Greyburn what she was making a noise round his mother's door for—she said, "Look at the dreadful language your mother has called me"—he then went inside, and Mrs. Cantor came out with a

stick and struck Mrs. Greyburn on the head with it, and it was broken—the prisoner then came but and struck Mr. Greyburn on the head with the poker very heavily twice—he then struck Mrs. Greyburn on the head, and went indoors and shut and fastened the door.

Cross-examined. I did not see the poker in his hand till he struck the blow—he made two or three steps after some children, but I did not see him do anything to them—I did not see Mr. Greyburn kick at the door, or see any stones thrown or the window broken—I did not hear any foul language from Mr. Greyburn, he was talking about horse-racing—I did not see Mr. and Mrs. Greyburn seize the prisoner and strike him across the neck, or see Mrs. Greyburn spit in his face, or call out "Emma, bring the poker"—I did not see Emma there at all—Mr. Greyburn did not look as if he was in drink, he was very quiet—he asked his wife once to come indoors.

By the COURT. I did not hear Mrs. Greyburn use bad language, it was Mrs. Cantor used the bad language from her window, it was about the two daughters they were disagreeing—I knew nothing of them before, or had any dispute with either of them—the prisoner came into the court from the Whitechapel end.

ALEXANDER GREYBURN . I am the son of the deceased, and lived with him and my mother in Nelson Court—I have one brother and a little sister named Emma—on the night of this disturbance my father and mother were out in the court about 12 o'clock—I came up the court and went indoors and laid on the sofa—I heard my little sister scream outside, I got up to see what was the matter, and mother and father and Mrs. Cantor were rowing, she was in the doorway, and they were outside—the prisoner came and said, "What are you kicking up a disturbance round here for?"—Mrs. Cantor was standing in the passage with a poker in her hand, and the prisoner took it out of her hand, and struck my father with it and then my mother, she fell to the ground and my father went upstairs, he was afterwards taken to the hospital; my sister did not go in and fetch the poker out of our house—I did not see her with a poker, nor my father or mother—I saw the prisoner take it from the passage from his own house—I only saw him strike my father one blow.

Cross-examined. Mrs. Cantor was not up at her window—I did not hear them using bad language, my father was not hammering at the shutters and the door—I did not see the door burst open or the lock burst off—the prisoner was in the passage of his own house when he took the poker from his mother—I never used the expression to my sister, "If you had not brought but the poker this would not have happened"—I did not see my mother seize hold of the prisoner, or strike him or spit in his face—the downstairs window was broken after the blow by the people that were rowing—my father and mother did not throw stones at the window.

JANE GREYBURN . I am the widow of the deceased—I now live at 17, Lisbum Street—at the time in question I lived at 4, Nelson Court—before 12 o'clock this night I had been out somewhere, and came back to the court—I heard my husband's voice in the court rather loud and angry—Mrs. Cantor was upstairs; she came down and opened the door, and said something to me, and we had a few words; we were talking, I dare say, about five minutes—I was trying to get my husband indoors—I looked round and saw the prisoner come up the court, and before I had time to say anything he took the poker out of his mother's hand and hit me on the

head with it—I can't say whether he hit my husband before he hit me—I became insensible—I did not call on my daughter Emma to fetch a poker—I was taken to the hospital before my husband

Cross-examined. I do not recollect two policemen coming and telling me. and my husband to go indoors—when my husband was in liquor he used bad language—he was not very much the worse for liquor this night; he had been drinking—I was sober; I had had a little—I do not recollect the language my husband used—I know nothing about bursting or kicking the door or breaking the glass.

By the COURT. The last I saw of my husband was talking to some men about a yard from me—there was no dispute or struggle going on between him and the prisoner then; he stood with his back to him—I do not know what he was talking about—he was talking foolishly, as a man in liquor does, but not angrily—we had no quarrel about the daughters that day; that was months past—she called me bad names, and of course I did the same—this is my husband's hat (produced) which he had on at that time.

GEORGE MANN (Policeman K 105). I was called to this court at a little after 1 in the morning—I went to No. 4, and found the deceased lying on the bed upstairs in the back room bleeding very much from a wound in the head—I had him removed at once to the London Hospital—this hat was afterwards brought to the station by the inspector.

FRANK WELLS (Police Sergeant H 17). On Monday morning, 8th July, about 9 o'clock, while I was on duty at the station in Commercial Street, the prisoner came there—I asked what he wanted, and he said, "My name is Joseph Cantor; I believe you want me"—I told him to sit down; he said, "I want to make a statement"—I cautioned him, and said, "If you wish to make a statement I must take it down in writing, and anything you may say will be used in evidence against you"—he then said, "On Sunday morning, at 12.45 a.m., I went to the bottom of the court; I said, 'Mrs. Craven, what do you want making a noise round my door?' she said, 'What is that to do with you?' I said to her, 'It is all to do with me;' she then said, 'Who are you, and what are you?' I said, 'I am as good as you;' she said, 'You!' and spit in my face; I said to her, 'Don't spit in my face,' and she did it again; then John Craven said, 'You b—, I got it in for you and your brother;' he then struck me in the neck; I tried to return the blow, when I received a blow on the head with a poker; I took the poker away, and struck them both back again"—he signed this statement in my presence.

GEORGE PALMER (Policeman K 615). About half-past 11 on this night I was called to this court; there was a noise going on between Mr. Grey burn and Mrs. Cantor—I did not see Mrs. Greyburn then—I persuaded both parties to go indoors, and they did so, and I left.

Cross-examined. They were using foul language to each other—it was the prisoner's sister who came to me in the Whitechapel Road, about 200 yards from the court; another constable went with me.

BEDFORD FLEMING . I was house-surgeon at the London Hospital on the 7th July—John Greyburn was brought there about half-past 2—he was in a very low state indeed; in fact, almost dying, from loss of blood and in jury to the brain; there was a great deal of blood on the skull—there was a long deep incised wound running along the top of the head for about 2¼; inches, which went down to the bone, and which had evidently been caused by

some hard blunt instrument—he was perfectly unconscious, and did not revive at all; he continued sinking for 12 hours, and then died from the injury—a poker would be a very likely instrument to produce such injuries; it must have been used with a great deal of force—I examined this hat at the inquest, and this hole in it corresponds with that part of the head where the blow was.

GUILTY . >Several police officers and other witnesses deposed to the prisoner's good character.— One Month's Imprisonment .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-785
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

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785. JOSEPH CANTOR was again Indicted, together with CHARLOTTE CANTOR , for unlawfully wounding Jane Greyburn, upon which no evidence was offered. NOT GUILTY

Before Mr. Recorder.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-786
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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786. HENRY COX (22) , Stealing a bill of exchange for 10l. and 6 pieces of paper, the property of Samuel Miller.

MR. DE MICHELE conducted the Prosecution; and MR. W. SLEIGH the Defence.

FREDERICK AUSTIN . I live at 26, Alvington Crescent, Stoke Newington—I am fourteen years of age, and have been the office boy of Messrs. Miller and Sons, of 23, Leadenhall Street, solicitors, since last March—on 16th July the prisoner came to the office and asked to see Mr. Miller—I told him he was not in—he said "Could you let me see the books referring to Mrs. Depledge?"—I said "I know nothing about any books; but I can let you see the papers"—he had said he came from the country to pay a bill for Mrs. Depledge, and he was her brother—he said "Let me see them"—I got the papers out of Mr. Miller's basket and gave them to the prisoner; they consisted of a bill of exchange, an account, copy letters from Messrs. Miller and Son, and one letter from Mrs. Depledge to the Marquis D'Oliveres—these are some of the documents (produced)—he said "I must take these papers away to look over the account"—I said "You must not take the papers away; instructions have been given not to allow anything to go out of the office"—I gave him a pencil, and he wrote on an envelope "Received of Messrs. Miler and Son, 25, East India Chambers, the letters appertaining to Depledge. H. Ashley, 67, Hyde Park Gardens"—I said "How can your name be Ashley if your sister's, name is Depledge?"—he said "Oh, she is married," and asked me if I knew where the Marquis D'Oliverez lived—I said I did not—he said if he knew where he lived he would puneh his

b—y head for him—I made no reply to that—he took the papers away—when Mr. Miller came the next morning I made a communication to him—I was in a cab when the prisoner was arrested in the Essex Road—he opened the door, and I said "That is the gentleman that took the papers"—we afterwards took the prisoner to the police-station—I stood apart when Mr. Miller and the prisoner talked.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Mr. Lickfold defended Cox at the Mansion House—these papers have been returned to Mr. Miller—I heard Mr. Miller say that he saw Mra Depledge's letter at 12 o'clock upon the Tuesday, when Cox came at 3—I did not see Mr. Miller that evening; he came next morning about 10—he had gone to Croydon—he left the office between 12 and 12.30—I will swear he was there at 12—he did not say to me that he had to go to Plaistow that day—I do not think the marquis was with Mr. Miller on the Monday before the letter was stolen—he had the

papers in his hand a quarter of an hour—I cannot say that he took the letter away—I know his writing—I think he came the morning after the 16th—I did not hear the conversation between the marquis and Mr. Miller—I saw the letter from Mrs. Depledge on the Monday when I put some papers away—I read it; it began, I think, "I do not wish to see you any more;" it was written on white paper—I should know it again—some words were underlined on the first page—I do not know this writing (a letter)—I did say at the police-court "The marquis might hare taken the papers—also "I cannot say when I first read the letter of Mrs. Depledge admitting the debt—I did not look into the parcel to see that Mrs. Depledge's letter was there"—I cannot say what the words were in which the debt was admitted.

Re-examined. I saw the marquis in the general office on the Monday, and saw the letter—I do not think I looked on the Tuesday—the bundle was tied up when I gave it to the prisoner.

SAMUEL MILLER . I am a solicitor, practising at 23. East India Chambers, Leadenhall Street—I have known the Marquis D'Oliverez about ten years—he consulted me with reference to making Mr. and Mrs. Depledge bankrupt, and entrusted to me a bill of exchange, an account for 282l, and the documents attached to the depositions and others—I left them in a basket on my desk with the instructions paper—there were also two copy letters from Miller and Son to Mr. Depledge, and an original letter from Mrs. Depledge to the Marquis of Oliverez, which are not here—I had no knowledge of the prisoner—I gave no authority to any one to take away those documents from my office—I remember the purport of the missing letter—Mrs. Depledge admitted the debt, and acknowledged the great kindness of the marquis to her and her husband—I saw the papers last on the 13th, when I referred to them to prepare a debtor's summons—they were all there—I left about two o'clock to go to Croydon—I returned the next morning, when Austin made a communication to me—I wanted to see if the prisoner would keep his appointment the next day—I put the matter in the hands of the police on the Thursday about 4 p.m—when the prisoner was apprehended he said he was very sorry, it was a rely stupid act on his part, but he had been put up to do it by Depledge, and that he had had a drop or else he Would not have done it—I received this receipt on this envelope from Austin—I went to Hyde Park Gardens—the highest number is 40—I could not find any Mr. Ashley.

Cross-examined. I received these documents at the Mansion House—I believe all the documents are returned except Mrs. Depledge's letter and the two copy letters—I have received letters from the marquis since the commencement of these proceedings against Mr. Cox—those are privileged letters—I have only received one asking me to withdrew, not several—I will swear I have not received four—I cannot tell yon how the marquis's letters began—he wrote a great deal—he was my client, not my friend, simply an acquaintance—I might have received a letter with the sentence, "I beg you again to withdraw entirely, as I said to yon before"—I say most decidedly I saw Mrs. Depledge's letter on the Tuesday, and the marquis read several letters to me, but from Mrs. Depledge not one—my bey told me the marquis was there on the Monday—I do not remember seeing him then—I cannot say whether I did or not—the marquis did not read to me on the Monday the letter that I say was stolen—he handed me letters, but clients do not read letters, we read them ourselves—as far as I recollect the

letter ran thus: "I thank you for the great kindness that you bestowed on me and my husband, and I trust ere long to be able to pay you back what we owe you."(Letter read: "I do not require to see you any more. I thank you for your great kindness to me and to my husband, and I hope the day is not far off when I shall be able to repay mine and my husband's debt to you.") I think those are the words I gave you at the police-court—I cannot say if any of it was underlined—it did not begin, "Your letter to hand. You are the greatest fool I ever met with"—I should be sure to have recollected that—I do not recollect the date of it (Reading coutinued: "I do not care for you or twenty solicitors. Do your best and do your worst, but take care what you do. Your late behaviour makes me forget your kindness to me and my husband, which I hope to repay, with all due respect to old age. Yours very truly, A. Depledge.") That was not the letter—I will swear it—the handwriting is similar—the bankruptcy proceedings are stopped because the documents are in Court—I do not know whether the marquis is here; I have not seen him this week.

Re-examined the letter referred to is only one of a number which when taken—unless we can produce those letters we must withdraw the whole case in bankruptcy.

The Prisoner received a good character. NOT GUILTY .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-787
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

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787. The said HENRY COX was further indicted for forging the receipt.

>MR. DE MICHELE, for the Prosecution, offered no evidence.


NEW COURT.—Thursday, September 19th, 1878.

Before Mr. Justice Lopes.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-788
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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788. GEORGE GREGORY (55) , Feloniously forging and uttering as order for the payment of 589l. 7s., with intent to defraud.

MR. STRAIGHT conducted the Prosecution; and MR. GRAIN the Defence. HENRY ROBERTS. I am chief clerk and cashier of the Merchants' Joint Stock Bank, 92 and 93, Great Russell Street—on 12th January, 1878, the prisoner opened an account there with 85l., and wrote in the signature book" Geo. Upton, 28, Union Square, mantle manufacturer; drawing account"—I gave him a cheque-book and pass-book—on 10th July he had a balance of 5s., and about 3.30 a boy handed me this cheque in an envelope and the prisoner's pass-book—the body of the cheque is the prisoner's writing to the best of my belief, but the signature and endorsement I should say are not—the signature is different to the rest of the cheque—I handed it to Mr. Laurie. (Read: "Sir Samuel Scott, Bart, and Co., August 13, 1878. Pay Mr. G. Upton or order 682l. 9S. Wm. S. Freeman.") Mr. Laurie returned and brought back a 500l. note, a 100l. note, and a 50l., a 20l., a 10l. note, and the rest in money—next morning the manager sent the 500l. and the 100l. note to the Bank of England to be changed, and while the person was away Crane came in and presented this cheque: "Pay self or bearer 645l. Geo Upton"—that is the prisoner's writing, and on one of the cheques we had handed to him—I wrote on it "Effects not cleared," and sent Crane back with it; he brought it again later on, and I paid it with a 50l. note, six 20l. notes, 17 10l. notes, and 61 5l. notes—the endorsement is in the prisoner's writing.

JAMES WILLIAM LAURIE . I was secretary of the Merchants' Joint Stock Bank—I was present when the prisoner opened his account, and saw him

write this—I have seen some of his cheques—to the best of my opinion this forged cheque is in his writing, except the signature—on 13th August I went with it to Scott's Bank, and received for it a 500l., a 100l., a 50l., a 30l. and a 10l. note, a the rest in money—the cheque was then placed to the prisoner's credit, and drawn against by the other cheque,

MICHAEL CRANE . (C ommissionaire No. 8 26). On Wednesday, 14th August, about 9.45, I received instructions to go to Ashley's Hotel—I went there and asked for Mr. Upton—I was shown into the coffee-room and saw the prisoner—he asked me to sit down, took a cheque-book out of his pocket, and wrote this cheque; I went with it to the Merchants' Bank, and they wrote on it "Effects not cleared"—I took it back to him, and he said "D—them, why can't they pay a man his money?"—I went back, the cheque was paid, and I gave the proceeds to the prisoner, who counted it and said it was all right—he then took me to the Unicom public-house and told me to stay there; he might be gone twenty minutes or an hour, or five hours, but on no pretence to go away till he came back—he came back in twenty minutes and called a Hansom, and I went with him to the Shakspere Hotel, Pimlico, where he told me to get some dinner—he left me and went into the coffee-room—I did not see bun go out of the house—I should not have seen if he had—in three quarters of an hour or an hour he brought in this cheque. (This was on Sir Samuel Scott, Bart. dated August 13th 1878, for 980l. 7., payable to William Griffiths, signed William S. Freeman and endorsed William Griffiths.) He told me to go to Sir Samuel Scott's bank and get the money—I went there and got it in gold and notes from Mr. Turner, which I took to the prisoner at the Shakspere Hotel—he counted it, said that it was all right, and handed me a 500l. note and a 300l. note and asked me to go to the Bank of England and get them changed—they were part of the money I took to him—I saw him write on the 500l. note this: "Upton. Mrs. Godfreys, 49, Notting Hill Square"—I went to the Bank and got them changed and took the change to the prisoner at the Shakspere—he asked me if I would go to Brighton with him—I said no, I did not think I should be allowed—he said that he had some more work to do, and I was not to employ myself with any other person, but meet him at the office at 9 o'clock next morning—he did not meet me next day, and about 9.30 that evening I was in my ordinary clothes in Essex Road, Islington, with Inspector Sayer—I walked up to the prisoner and said "Good evening, Mr. Upton"—he said "Good evening; I don't know you"—I asked him if he did not know the commissionaire who was with him yesterday—he said "Yes," and shook hands with me and took my arm and said that he did not know me in those clothes—he walked a little way with me, and I asked why he had not come to the office at 9 o'clock; he said that he was very busy, out intended to see me next day—I asked him how he got on at Brighton; he said very well, but he had rather I had been with him—I then made a sign to Sayer, who came up and took him in custody—on the way to Scotland Yard in a cab he said "Don't you think it will be worth your while to settle the matter? If you drive to where, I want yon I will make it worth your while."

Cross-examined. I did not know where he lived, I had not known him before—Sayers took me to Essex Road.

EDWARD SAYER (Detective Inspector A). I received information, in consequence of which I went with Crane to Essex Road and took the prisoner

I—I charged him with being concerned with others in forging and uttering a cheque on Scott's bank—on the way to Scotland Yard he said, "Don't you think it is worth your while to settle the matter? I will make it worth your while if you will let me get out of the cab"—he refused bis name and address.

WILLIAM RUSSEL STEWART FREEMAN . I keep an account at Sir Samuel Scott's bank—these two chequea are forgeries, but they are a very good imitation of my signature—I am proprietor of Aldridge's Repository, and sign a great many cheques; I do not know whose hands they go into—I know nothing of the prisoner.

HENRY ALBERT TURNER . I am a cashier at Sir Samuel Scott's bank—I cashed both these cheques—among other notes which I paid for the first cheque was a 20l. note, No. 52221, dated April 30th—the cheques are a very good imitation of Mr. Freeman's writing, which was my reason for paying them.

THOMAS JOSEPH BARNWELL . I am assistant to Robert Starling, a pawnbroker, of 68, Great Portland Street—on 14th August the prisoner redeemed a diamond ring which he had pledged for 18l. with this 20l. note, No. 53221—I wrote on it, and that is how I identify it.

GEORGE URBEN (Detective Officer). I went to 45, Notting Hill Square—Mrs. Godfrey rents the house, but I did not see her—I found nothing in reference to the prisoner.

THOMAS TEW (Detective Sergeant N). I know the prisoner by the names of George Pearson, Frederick Price, and Gregory.

MR. GRAIN stated that after this evidence he did not consider it right to address the Jury, upon which the prisoner stated that he met a man who he had not seen for twenty years, who said that he could put 100l. in hispocket if he had a banking account, and for whom he fitted up, as a clerk, cheques for 400l., 600l., and 900l., and paid them into his own bank; that the man also gave him a 20l. note and a pawn-ticket, with which he redeemed the ring, and on the next day, being asked to get cashed a cheque for 1,700l., he became suspicious, and refused; and that he neither committed the forgery or had the money, except 20l. which the man gave him.

GUILTY . He was further charged with a previous conviction at Clerkenwell in May, 1873, in the name of George Pearson, to which he PLEADED GUILTY.— Twelve Years' Penal Servitude MR. STRAIGHT stated that the total amount of the prisoner's forgeries was 2, 103l.

(For cases tried in the Third Court on Thursday, see Surrey Cases.)

FOURTH COURT.—Thursday, September 19th, 1878.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-789
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment > penal servitude

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789. RICHARD KIMBER (21) and JAMES EMERY (39) , Stealing 30 hampers, 24 bottles, 12 wooden cases, 11 boxes of tea, and divers large quantities of wine, groceries, and earthenware, the property of the Great Eastern Railway Company; to which KIMBER PLEADED GUILTY. MESSRS. MONTAGU WILLIAMS and NICHOLIS conducted the Prosecution; and

MR SIMS the Defence.

ROWLAND ROBERT JONES . I live at 13, Hope Street, Hackney Road, and am a clerk in the employ of the Great Eastern Railway Company—on 13th

August I gave this order in writing (produced) to Kimber—no goods arrived at the Brick Lane station by Kimber that evening to my knowledge.

JOHN FOSTER . I live at 105, A berfeld Road, Rotherhithe, and am a packer in the employ of the Civil Service Supply Association, Howley Place, Lambeth—I packed two gallons of sherry in what we call a two-gallon B. B., and a dozen of other wine in this hamper (produced)—I forwarded it in the usual way—this order (produced) was put into the hamper.

Cross-examined. I speak to the hamper from my recollection of it—packers get to know hampers just as shepherds to know sheep, which others would not see any difference between—I have not been shown other hampers and asked if I could identify them.

Re-examined. The order was addressed to J. L. Foster, Millwood House, ware.

By MR. SIMS. It was not addressed in my possession—it must have been addressed to Foster, of Ware, but I cannot say positively that it was.

HENRY FIZGERALD HOGAN . I live at 41, Park Road, New Wands worth, and am a clerk in the employ of the Civil Service Supply Association, Howley Place, Lambeth—it is my duty to make out tallies to put on hampers of goods which are sent away—this tally is in my writing—it has on it "H. L 83—12.8.78," meaning Howley luggage, 83, the number of the package, the other figures being the date—I wrote it on 12th August, before the package was sent.

HORACE COLLINS . I am in the employ of the Civil Service Supply Association, Howley Place—on 12th August I was engaged putting tallies on hampers which were sent away—I affixed this one in Mr. Hogan's writing.

Cross-examined. I know I affixed it by the knot—I should known my knot again.

THOMAS WRIGHT . I am a carman in the employ of Messrs. Chaplin and Horne, of Hambro' Wharf—on 13th August I collected packages of goods from the Civil Service Supply Association, and I signed this not (produced)—I had amongst my packages a basket bottle of wine for Foster, of Ware, which I delivered at Hambro' Wharf.

GEORGE PHILLIPS . I live at 36, Wellington Street, Regent's Park, and am in the employ of the Civil Service Supply Association at Ward's Wharf—I believe I packed goods in this hamper marked B—it is what is called a dozen and a-half hamper, and is marked with a stroke and an X—I packed it with packets of grocery, and amongst them some 10l. b, packets of tea of this description (produced)—I did not see to whom the hamper was addressed—it was afterwards taken to have a tally put on it—when it went out of my hands there was no tally on it.

Cross-examined. The mark I have spoken to is used by other firms—I do not swear to the mark merely, but to we hamper—I do not weigh and put up, I simply put goods in the hampers—I constantly pack tea is 10l. b. pakets, it is the custom of the trade—this is an ordinary packet of tea.

FREDERICK BASSETT . I am assistant clerk to the Civil Service Supply Association, at Ward's Wharf—it is my duty to make out the tallice to put on packages that are going out—this one on this basket is in my writing—it is 8.30 A or 5.30A, which signifies luggage, and W. W. at the bottom means Ward's Wharf—I wrote it on 13th August, and put it on the basket after it was addressed—I cannot say that there is anything on the hamper to show that it came from our grocery department.

CHARLES POULTER . I am a carman in the employ of the London and North Western Railway Company—on 13th August I collected three loads of goods from Ward's Wharf, Commercial Koad, which is in the possession of the Civil Service Supply Association—I produce three way-bills marked El to 3—I took all the goods therein mentioned to Hambro' Wharf on that day—I cannot say whether the name of Passmore appears on E 1 and 2.

JAMES PASSMORE . I live at Nunhead, Peckham Rye, and am in the employ of Meikle and Grooley, trading as the Bonus Tea Association, 94 and 96, Southwark Street—this board (produced) is part of a tea-chest—a piece of an address card is nailed to it, on which are the figures 84 in my Writing—there is also on it in my writing, "et off to d," being part of the sentence "Get off to-day"—the G is under the tack—the name Studd is still on the card—that is not in my writing, but in Payne's—the chest contained 84l. b. of tea, and was consigned to Studd, of Friston, on the Great Eastern line—it was dispatched on 13th August—in consequence of a communication received from Mr. Studd, we sent him another box of tea—I saw the package placed in Cox's van—he is in the employ of the London and North Western Railway Company—on 13th August thirteen packages of tea and earthenware were sent out from our firm, value about 70l.—we have had to re-execute' all the orders—I also identify this chest as our property by the mark O. J. B., in a heart, Brake No. 3—it must have left our premises—I only know Emery from seeing him at the Mansion House. Cross-examined. The 84l. b. of tea was packed in 336 packages—I have personal knowledge of this tea-chest—I have my books here—I recognise it by the number 574—I know the whole of these chests from memory and the books combined—17 chests were sent by the Great Eastern Railway—altogether there were over sixty Sent away that day—this chest must have left our warehouse full, for the simple reason that we do not sell empties—I know there is a trade in selling empties—I have not heard of their being worked up into valuable articles of furniture.

HENRY PAYNE . I live at 20, Rockmede Road, South Hackney—in August last I was a clerk in the employ of the Bonus Tea Association—I wrote all the tallies on the parcels to be sent out—the name of Studd on this board is in my writing—the tea was in the box, and it went from our place about 13th August.

JAMES COX . I am a carman in the employ of the London and North Western Railway Company—on 13th August I collected some goods from the Bonus Tea Association with a consignment note—I cannot swear whether there was a package for Studd—I see Studd of Friston here—I took the goods to Hambro' Wharf.

Cross-examined. I cannot tell how many packages I had unless I count this up.

JOHN TURFORD . I live at 5, Robston Road, Dalston, and am assistant manager to the Civil Service Supply Association—this list (produced) is in my writing—I did not make it out on 13th August—I sent out certain goods on 13th August—I cannot swear to that particular hamper marked "A, No. 83"—we have re-executed the order.

JOHN HANN . I live at 5, Minton Street, New Kent Road, and am a shipper at Hambro' Wharf, in the employ of the London and North-Western Railway Company—on the afternoon of 13th August Kimber came to the wharf with a van and two horses—I saw him load his van with 50 packages

consisting of wines, teas, and earthenware; they were hampers, chests, casks and cases—I gave him three bills.

JAMES ERNEST DYNES . I am a clerk in the cartage office, Brick Lane station, Great Eastern Railway Company—on 13th August I was on duty there till about 9.30, waiting for Kimber to come back with the goods; he did not return, and we closed the office.

JOHN FINCH . I live at 8, Rockmede Street, Hackney Road, and am a carman and contractor—I saw Kimber between 7 and 8 p.m. on 13th August driving a van and pair of horses towards Stratford Church—the tarpaulin over the goods was one of the Great Eastern Railway Company's.

Cross-examined. I saw him going towards Marsh Gate Lane, Stratford, near Bow Bridge, about a mile this side of Stratford—I did not see where he went to or where he turned off; it was nowhere near Brick Lane or Hambro' Wharf.

MARK UNDERWOOD (Policeman 347 K). I was on duty at 11.30 p.m. on 13th August in Ann Street, Green Street, Bethnal Green, and saw a pair of horses and an empty van without a driver; the name on the van was Bayliss—I took it to the greenyard.

Cross-examined. I knew nothing about the loss of a van at that time—I soon learnt that one was lost—I don't think many of the constables about there knew of it—when we have a secret of that kind we keep it to ourselves, that we may have a chance of finding it out.

WILLIAM HUTT (City Detective), On account of information I received, on 30th August, I was in the Commercial Road, and saw Kimber at the corner of Morgan Street—as soon as he saw me he ran through a number of streets—I ran after him and took him—he made a statement to me—in consequence of information I received I went with a search warrant to Emery's place of business on the 2nd instant, with a constable named Saunders; he was not at home—I left Saunders there and went away, and returned—I then took Emery into the back yard and pointed out a bottlebasket and a dozen and a half hamper—I said "How do you account for these hampers being in your possession, Emery?"—he said "Oh, I have had them for months; I bought them at the top of the street, and gave a man a shilling for them and a lot of straw"—this tally was tucked under like that—I said "How can you account for that being written on, '12.8.78'?"—I was not aware at that time that the Civil Service Supply Association used this mark—the other label was dated "13.8.78"—he said "I know nothing about it"—I then showed him the bit of tea-chest which I found in the cupboard amongst other things, with "Studd" upon it, and said "How do you account for this?"—he said "I don't know"—I Said "That is one of the packages that was stolen on the 13th, with a number of others"—he said "I know nothing about it"—I found about 8l. b. of tea in the bedroom in a 10l. b. paper packet—I also found this canvas bag; there is nothing on it by which to identify it—I also found a small quantity of soap marked "Hearn," and some packets of black-lead pencils, note-paper, and envelopes—Emery's is a private house with double doors; it is 79, Stanley Road, Stratford, just opposite the sewer bridge; it is the London side of Stratford, 400 or 500 yards from Marsh Gate Lane.

Cross-examined. I think I have named all I found at Emery's; there were some invoices, but not large quantities—I found a book and some pawn-tickets—I left the pown-tickets and invoices there; the dates of the

former ran up to and after 13th August—I saw they did not relate to the property I wanted; they showed that Emory was in difficulties up to and after 13th August, when he would be in possession of all this money if he had had it—I was appointed to investigate this matter—I did not do so till a fortnight after the robbery—when I arrested Emery he said "A man gave me 5l. and told me to meet him at Gloucester Street, Commercial Road, to settle with me; he gave me 10l. more, and that is all I have had"—I found some cards showing that Emery was a drysalter and general dealer—I saw some other very old hampers about the yard broken up as if for firewood—the ticket on this hamper was legible—he did not tell me they were empties—the business cards stated that he bought merchants' samples—I had what assistance I wanted from the local police.

Re-examined. In connection with samples I found gum, indigo, cochineal, and a bag of stuff I don't know the name of.

WILLIAM SAUNDERS (City Policeman). I went with Hutt on the 2nd inst. with a warrant to search Emery's premises—it is a private house, with doors leading into a yard—Hutt knocked, and a woman answered the door—at about three o'clock Emery came home—I told him I was a police-officer, and held a warrant to search his premises for goods stolen by Richard Kimber on 13th ult.—he replied, "What goods?"—I said, "Tea and various other goods"—he said "I never had them here"—I took him to the back-yard, and showed him the two hampers produced marked A and B, and asked him if he could account for the possession of them—he replied, I have had them here for months"—I then showed him the tally on the hamper marked A, and the date, 12.8.78.—he said, "I bought them of a man at the top of the street with a lot of straw, and gave him sixpence for them"—at the station he said, "I understand the charge, but I never had the things."

Cross-examined. A woman was there when I went there; she was taken in custody, and was charged at the same time, and afterwards discharged by the magistrate—I saw her this morning—I have not been there since—I saw soma pawn-tickets there; I did not examine them—I saw a number of papers and some invoices which he showed me—I did not examine them—I have been about eight years in the force—I went to search for goods—I saw Hutt examine some pawn-tickets—when I asked about the two bottles he took an invoice from a file—I have been making inquiries about this case ever since—I found some correspondence—I read one or two letters—I did not think it necessary to bring any—they related to a man writing to Emery for money, as he had not fulfilled his promise.

SUSAN WHITE . I live at 81, Stanley Road, Stratford—between 81 and 79 there is a gateway—I know Emery—early in August, between one and two a.m, I was in bed, when I beard a heavily-laden van stop, which was too wide to pass the part of the road that leads to the gateway, so it drawed on to my pathway—it frightened me—I stood up and looked out at the end of my blind—I sleep in the parlour—in the van there were dirty boxes, such as soap and candles are packed in, and ten chests and hampers at the top.

Cross-examined. On the evening of the 2nd the police came to me to make inquiries—I knew of this concern before they came—I did not know of a van of things having been lost on the railway until after I saw this van go in—I did not know when or where the van had been found.

SAMUEL JOHNSON . I am a carman, of 117, Leverton Street—a month or six weeks ago Emery came to me and asked if I could let him have a horse and van the next morning to move some goods, as his horse was not well—I told him I could, and he told me to bring a sheet in case it might rain.—six empty hampers and three sewn-up canvas bags were put in the van, and he gave me two empty boxes—the bags were full, but I could not see what was in them—I afterwards handed the boxes to the police—Emery told me to take the other things in the van and stop against the new wing of the London Hospital, Mile End Road, and he would come up by train and be there as soon as I was—I waited there from half an hour to threequarters—I went into a public-house, and left the ran outside—he then came with another man I know and said, "I, thought you would have drove further up; stop a minute or two," and he went away again—he then came back and said, "Come on and pull up here"—I followed him up with the van to a little cottage—he said, "Come and have a drop of ale before we in load"—I had a drop of ale and he went out again—I then see him unloading the van, and he took the things into the cottage—he gava me 6s, for the job.

Cross-examined. I started from home at about 7.30 am., and got to my destination about 9 or 9.30—I do not remember saying before the Magistrate that this was a month or so ago, and altering it afterwards to two—I remained in the public-house during the unloading—I believe it was wet about that time—I do not know that Emery bought and sold empties—I have never sold him any bags—I might have sold him empties, I sell such a lot of bags—I never carried empties for him before—I cannot say when I first gave information to the police—I have not been to the cottage since.

EMERY received a good character. GUILTY .— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment . KIMBER was further charged with having been convicted of felony in September 1877, to which he PLEADED GUILTY>.**— Seven Years' Penal Servitude .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-790
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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790. WILLIAM JACKSON (34) PLEADED GUILTY to burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Joseph Brentini and stealing therein a clock, having been convicted of felony in December, 1876.— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-791
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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791. JOHN EDWARDS** (52) to stealing a purse and 9s. 7d. in money of Mary Ann Stephens from her person, having been convicted of felony in June, 1877.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Ten, Years' Penal Servitude.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-792
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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792. JOSEPH CORDINGLEY (24) to stealing a coat and other articles, the goods of Herbert Bull.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Twelve Months' Imprisonment. (There was another indictment against the Prisoner.)

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-793
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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793 JOHN GAGE (22) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of John David Eveleigh, and stealing a shawl and other articles, his property.

MR. KISCH conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLOTTE WALTON . I am general servant to Mr. Eveleigh, of 2, Lower John Street, Golden Square—I shall have been there five months on 29th September—on Bank Holiday, 5th August, I was left in charge of the house with my sister—we left the house alone at 6.30 p.m., and left the area door open—the area is covered with a grating—we left all safe, and returned at 10.30—as I entered the street door I saw a match burning on the mat—on going upstairs I saw some matches, but they were not alight—I missed the

key of the street door, which I had left on missus's dressing-table just before I went out—three pence was gone out of the little girl's box, which I had seen two or three days before—I do not know the prisoner—he has no sister lodging in our house—we have no lodgers—he had no right to be there.

EMILY ADA ROBINSON . I live at 9, Lower John Street, Golden Square—I was at home at about 6.30 p.m. on Bank Holiday, with my sister—at about 8 o'clock the prisoner called and asked if Mr. Kirkham, a lodger of ours, was in—I said no, and asked if he would leave any message—he said he had no message, and left—about an hour after, I went to the first-floor window with my sister and looked out, and saw the prisoner by the King of Prussia, next door but one to us—sometime after he went over to No.? opposite, and knocked twice, and went again to the King of Prussia—about five or ten minutes after he went over again, and then he was constantly knocking and ringing—then I called out and said "I don't think any one is there"—he came in front of our house, and said "My sister is there, and she won't let me in. I think I shall have to stop in the rain; if she does not, I think I shall get over, wouldn't you?"—I said it was not my busineas—he went over, and knocked and rang again—I think we went away from the window for a little while, and we went back to it again in five or ten minntes—he was then on the railings of No. 2, just getting over into the area, and I saw a light come in the kitchen—I shut the windows and pulled down the blind—I had no clock, but I should think it was about 9.40 when I saw the light in the kitchen—after some time I went to the window again, and in about a minute I saw the prisoner open the door, look out, and come out with a bundle—I did not see him take anything in—I told the police the same night.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I did not say at the police-court that I went away from the window when I saw a man in the doorway, and when went back to the window he was gone—I think it was nearly 8 o'clock when I first saw you—I think you came out of the house about 10 o'clock—you turned to the left.

FLORENCE EDITH ROBINSON . I was with my sister when the prisoner came and asked for somebody; she said that he was not at home—I went up to the door just as he was going away—I went to the open window afterwards, and saw him walking up and down the street—he got on the railings of No. 2—I afterwards saw lights in diflferent parts of the house—there were none before—I then saw him come out with a small bundle—he had nothing when he went in.

Cross-examined. When I first saw you it was a few minutes to 8 o'clock—I made a mistake in the time at the police-court—my sister did not say to me that she saw a man standing in the doorway, and she went away from the window, and when she went back the man was gone, and he must have got over the area—I heard you drop—we were all sitting on the sofa together, and we all got up.

Re-examined. My sister saw him on the railings—I heard his boots drop in the area—I saw a light on the first and second floors.

CHARLOTTE WALTON (Re-examined). When I left the house I did not shut any of the doors inside the house—the bedroom door on the third floor was shut—the drawing-room (on the first floor) was locked—the bedroom is on the second floor—I think I left the bedroom door open—I had been in the room in the morning.

EMILY ADA ROBINSON (Re-examined). I have been inside the house—the drawing-room floor is over the parlours—I should call the bedroom the second and the drawing-room the first floor.

CHARLES EVELEIGH . No. 2, Lower John Street belongs to my father—I vent over the premises last on 6th August, and found the drawers and certain places ransacked and turned over—I did not know their contents at that time.

FANNY EVELEIGH . I am the wife of John Eveleigh—from information I received I searched the house on 8th August, and missed a small workbox containing a silver watch, a gold eyeglass, and a pair of pearl studs, from my bedroom on the second floor, which was kept locked—the value of the articles would be about 3l. or 4l,—I also missed a Paisley shawl—I last saw the things safe on 29th July, when I left for Brighton.

JAMES O'DEA (Detective C). I received information, and took the prisoner on 6th August—I told him I should charge him with entering No. 2, Lower John Street, Golden Square, on 5th August—he said, "You quite take me off my legs;" he afterwards said, "What night did you say?"—I repeated, "5th August"—he said, "Why, I was at the Pavilion that night"—I searched his lodgings, but found nothing relating to the charge—I found nothing on him except two pawn-tickets, which did not relate to the charge. Cross-examined. I called you into a public-house, and told you you knew all about it.

Witness for the Defence.

ELIZABETH GAGE . I am the prisoner's mother—between 6 and 7 p.m. on Bank Holiday he came home and had some tea with me—he went away about 7.30 and returned about 9.30 very much in liquor, and asked me for a shilling, and I said I hadn't got one at fust, and then I gave him one, and he said that he was going to sea on following morning—I saw no more of him until he went away on Tuesday morning between 10 and 11, when he said he was going down to the Docks to look after a ship—he returned about 9.30, and then I don't know where he went to, but I think the lady is deceived—I looked at the clock because I was lighting up my lamp at the time.

Cross-examined. I was called for the prisoner at the police-court—I said that he remained with me from 7 to 7.30; I was so confused—I was never at such a place before—I might have said that he was with me from 6 to 7—I have more confidence now to speak—I had a little business to attend to at 7.30 to 7.45—my eyes are always at the clock because I have my work—he came back between 8.30 and 9.30, and was very much in drink—I swear most positively he returned that night—I don't know that I said before the Magistrate that he had tea at 6 o'clock with me and went out at 6.30, and I saw him no more that night—I was confused—I know he came in at about 9 o'clock by his father coming in from work—I looked at the clock.

Prisoner's Defence. I didn't let anybody know I was in trouble till the next morning. I called my mother to prove where I was, but being so confused she could not give a proper account of me. She proves I was at home at 6 o'clock. One of the witnesses at first said I must have got over the area, and now she says she saw me. She says she see Me come out of the house, but that is a falsehood. I was with a friend of my mother's, an upholsterer in the Hampstead Road. I left him and went home at 11.45, and then I was very drunk.

GUILTY of entering and stealing. He was further charged with having been

convicted of felony in July, 1876, to which he PLEADED GUILTY**.— Seven Years' Penal Servitude .

OLD COURT.—Friday, September 20th, 1878.

Before Mr. Recorder.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-794
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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794. GEORGE FRANCIS KNOX (18) PLEADED GUILTY to feloniously forging and uttering an order for 6l., with intent to defraud.— Strongly recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor.— Two Months' Imprisonment.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-795
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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795. ELLEN STEVENS (30) , Stealing a set of turquoise studs and other articles of Edward Howard Rand, in his dwelling-house.

MR. BESLEY conducted the Prosecution.

EDWARD HOWARD RAND . I am the manager of the Cannon Street Hotel—on 9th July I had in my bedroom, on the ground floor, a small rosewood box, containing jewellery of the value of 10l.—I missed them about midday on the 11th—there was a set of turquoise studs, a gold ring with my initials, a turquoise pin, a bogwood pin, a pair of links, a collar stud, an Indian coin, and a miniature in a morocco case—I afterwards saw them at the pawnbroker's—there are some other articles missing.

ALFRED FORD (Detective B). The prisoner was handed over to my custody on 30th July, at the Grosvenor Hotel, Buckingham Palace Road, Pimlico, on another charge—she gave her address as 186, Kennington Road, and the name of the landlady as Mrs. Rose—I went there and searched the front and back drawing-room—I found the miniature which Mr. Rand has identified—I got particulars of things which I afterwards found pledged at a pawnbroker's including this ticket relating to a jacket—I found this mantle in her box in her bedroom.

MARGARET Ross. I live at 186, Kennington Road—the prisoner came to lodge with me on 13th June—she occupied the room which I showed to Ford—the box which he took the mantis from was the prisoner's.

FREDERICK CORNELL . I am an assistant to Mr. Wanton, pawnbroker, of Kennington Park Road—the prisoner was constantly at our place—on 10th July she brought these articles (produced) to pledge—I advanced 30s. on them—she gave the came of Ellen Stevens, of Kennington Road.

CHARLES WOODMAN . I am an assistant to Mr. Robson, a pawnbroker, in the Kennington Road—I know the prisoner as having constantly brought articles to pledge there—I produce a ticket referred to and a black jacket pawned 15th May, 1878, in the name of Stevens.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I do not remember having the jacket twice in pledge, only once.

MARY CLOSE . I am a single woman employed at the Cannon Street Hotel '—my bedroom was on the ground floor—this is my jacket—I can tell it by this particular pocket, which I put in myself—I lost it about 6th April, a few days after I went to the hotel—I bought it on 2nd November last.

MARY WELLS COLE . I am a single woman staying at Whitby—I was an inmate of the Westminster Palace Hotel on 10th June last—my room was No. 160—on 11th June I bought this cape of Messrs. Lewis and Allenby—I missed it on the 12th.

THEODOSIA DREW . I am a single womain and an assistant to Messrs. Lewis and Allenby—I sold this cape to the last witness.

GUILTY of receiving. ** She also PLEADED GUILTY to several other indictments, and to having been convicted of felony at Southwark Police-court in February, 1875.— Eighteen Month's Imprisonment .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-796
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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796. DANIEL LEGRAND (31) , Feloniously forging and uttering an order for 90l., with intent to defraud.

MR. BAYLIS conducted the Prosecution. (The Prisoner being a foreigner the evidence was interpreted.)

JEAN BENJAMIN URCLE . I live at Aberford, in Yorkshire—at the time this happened I lived at 16, Percy Street, Oxford Street—I arrived in London on 18th June, and two or three days after I met the prisoner at a restaurant—two or three days after that I went to lodge with him at his room, there being two beds in the room—I did not know him before—I told him I had some money—he said "Let us go to the Birkbeck Bank," and two or three days after we went there together to deposit the money I had, 150l.—he said "I wish to put 9l. of mine to that sum"—he said it was to show me how such things were done—159l. was deposited—I received a cheque-book, and at the end of the week I received this pass-book—three days after the money was deposited the prisoner said "Give me a cheque for my 9l"—I, not knowing English very well, said "Write out a cheque for 9l."—he did so and I signed it—this is it (produced), it is now for 90l.—at the time it was written it was for 9l.—the word "Nine" was written in the body, but no figures in the corner; I did not pay attention to that—the prisoner afterwards brought me my pass-book, and that bore the figure nine—at the end of the month I wanted to go from London, and I went to claim my money and was told something—I had signed a cheque for 4l. for myself, but no other cheque in favour of the prisoner.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. The cheque for 4l. you filled up for me, just as you did the other, I signed it and got the money for it—I did not bow you in Paris—you did not place as much money in the bank as I did—I did not notice any erasture in the pass-book till the bank called my attention to it.

HENRY ADAMS . I am in the employ of Mr. Pearson, a money-changer—on 24th June I changed 154l. 12s. for the prosecutor—on 28th June the prisoner presented this cheque for 90l. on the Birkbeck Bank, and asked us to collect the money for him; we cashed it at the bank and paid him the money.

FREDERICK MORLEY HILL . I am accountant to the Birkbeck Bank—this cheque for 90l. was cashed there, and an entry of it made in the prosecutor's pass-book.

THOMAS TANNER . I am pass-book clerk at the Birkbeck Bank—I made these entries in this pass-book, 159l. on the credit side, and 90l. on the debit—there is an erasure here, it is now 9. Prisoner. The prosecutor could do what he liked with his book.

WILLIAM GEORGE MITCHELL . I am a cashier at the Birkbeck Bank—the prosecutor opened an account there on 25th June with 159l., 19l. in gold, and 140l. m bank-notes—I cannot recognise the prisoner as being there—I produce the paying-in slip. Prisoner. That is my writing.

WILLIAM JUBY (Policeman D 241). The prisoner was given into my custody on 18th July—I searched him and found on him 66l. in gold, 5s. 6d.

in silver, three pence in bronze, three gold studs, one silver watch, and one aluminium—no cheque—I afterwards went to his lodging, 16, Percy Street

Cross-examined. I did not find ten French Railway shares, or a diamond worth 350l.—another officer searched your bag.

Prisoner's Defence. The police or the prosecutor took things from me to the value of 350l. I did not erase the book, my hand is too heavy to be able to do so. If you look at the erasure and what has been substituted there, you will see that it is done with a fine hand. We were living in the same room, and nobody knows anything about it except us two. The reason why he now picks a quarrel with me is, because I would not sign him a cheque for 250l., with which he wanted to run away to America. I was acquainted with him in Paris, where he has been a wine merchant and a bankrupt. He is a Jesuit. We were in account together, and I had a right to do this.

GUILTY Fifteen Months' Imprisonment .

There was another indictment against the prisoner for forging another cheque for 55l.

NEW COURT.—Friday, September 20th, 1878.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-797
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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797. HENRY VITA (23) , Feloniously forging and uttering an endorsement to an order for 30l. 2s., with intent to defraud

MR. WILLIAMS, for the Prosecution, proceeded on the uttering only; MR. SIMS defended the Prisoner.

GEORGE COOK . I am chief clerk and cashier to Johnson, Matthey, and Co., assayers and refiners, of Hatton Garden—on 8th August, about 3 p.m, the boy Marshall came and presented an envelope containing these two papers—having suspicions I hesitated to give him the gold demanded, but made up a dummy parcel and gave it to him—he went out and I followed him—he went straight to the prisoner, who was about 180 yards from the shop advancing towards him, and delivered the parcel to him, and as be took it I seized him at the back, and said, "What are you doing with that parcel?" he said, "What is the meaning of all this? What are you touching me for?"—I told "I will go into the matter when I get you into the office"—I took him there with assistance—he said that he knew nothing of the contents of the letter, and said, "Why have you brought me here?"—I had a policeman there—I said, "What do you mean by giving a forged order?"—he said, "I did not know there was any cheque, I received the letter from a gentleman at the end of Hatton Garden, who promised me 4s. if I would give a boy a penny to deliver the letter"—Frederick Jones is a customer of ours—I took the cheque to the bank immediately, and it turned out to be a forgery.

Cross-examined. I think he said that if I would come with him to the end of Hatton Garden he would point out the gentleman—I did not go—I know that another boy was sent for in my absence to identify the prisoner, but no charge has been made against the prisoner about that matter that I am aware of—I know that on the previous day another cheque was presented at our office with a similar letter by another boy, which gave me suspicion in the present case, and the boy was confronted with the prisoner and did not recognise him.

Re-examined. I have heard all that from somebody else.

ALFRED MITCHELL . On 28th August I was in Hatton Garden, and the

prisoner came up and asked me if I minded taking a letter to Johnson, Matthey, and Co., and he would give me a few halfpence—he gave me a letter and I took it there, and Mr. Cook gave me a parcel—I went out, the prisoner crossed over to me, and I handed him the parcel, he gave me some money, and Mr. Cook caught hold of him—he was still in Hatton Garden, about ten yards from where he handed me the parcel, and about 100 yards from the shop—I did not know where the shop was till he pointed it out to me, and said, "It is that red brick house over the other side of the road", and I went there.

FREDERICK JONES . Ilive at 20, Wilmington Square, and am a gold refiner—I deal with Johnson, Matthey, and Co.—I do not know Greorge Wilson—I did not know of this cheque till I saw it before the Magistrate—the endorsement is net my writing. (This was drawn by George Wilson on the Regent Street branch of the Union Bank for 30l., 2s., and endorsed "Frederick Jones.")

WILLIAM BRYCESON . I am clerk to Jonathan Andrews, a builder, of 10 A, Mount Street, who books at the Union Bank of London, Regent Street branch—this cheque 57426 is one of a number stolen from Mr. Andrews's cash-book between July 7th and 9th—the prisoner is a stranger to me.

PATRICK REILLY (Policeman 175 G). The prisoner was given into my custody—he said that he was sent by a gentleman with this cheque or letter to give it to the first boy he met, and he gave it to Alfred Mitchell—I asked where he worked—he said in Stacey Street, Dudley Street, at a cabinet-maker's, and that he was a cabinet-maker—there are two cabinetmiers in Stacey Street; I inquired at both, and found that he never worked there.

GUILTY of uttering. —Nine Months' Imprisonment .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-798
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence
SentenceMiscellaneous > sureties

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798. CHARLES PHILLIPS (19) , Unlawfully wounding Frederick Fowler.

MR. A. B. KELLY conducted the Prosecution; and MR. A. METCALFE the Defence.

RICHARD BARTLETT . I am a carman in the employ of the Great Northern Railway—the prisoner is also one of their carmen—James Fowler was guard of one of the company's vans—on 13th August, between twelve and one, I drove my van into the archway leading to Bull and Mouth Street, and the prisoner drew up hois van in an opposite direction and blocked my van—I said, "Now then, let us out"—he said, "Not me"—I said, "Don't make a guy of yourself, but let me out"—he took no notice, but walked across the yard with some bread and meat in one hand and a knife in the other—Fowler, whose van was standing there, said to the prisoner, "Piggy, you are a b—guy"—the prisoner said, "Go away"—Fowler repeated the same words three times, and then the prisoner thiew the knife at him; Fowler seeemed to turn to run away, and the knife stuck into his back—I believe it fell out of itself—he had his coat and waistcoat on—the prisoner ran to Fowler, put him in his van, and took him to the hospital, and I followed.

Cross-examined. The prisoner had the knife in his hand when he got off his van—I believe he bad just borrowed it of another carman—Fowler had nothing to do with the dispute—he was two or three yards from the prisoner when the knife was thrown.

JAMES FOWLER . I am guard of one of the Great Northern Railway vans

—I was with my van in Bull and Mouth Yard—Bartlett was there with his van, and asked the prisoner to move his van, which was in the archway—I did not hear the prisoner make any reply, hut Bartlett called him a guy, and I also said, "Piggy, you are a guy"—I did not say "a b—guy"—he said something, and I called him a guy again—he said, "Go away", but I did not—I did not call him a guy a third time—he was sitting on a bale, and my face was towards him—I turned my back to go to my van, and did not see the knife coming—I only went half a yard, when I felt numb, and found blood coming down my back—the prisoner then came towards me and said he was very sorry—he put me in a van, not his own, and I told my mate to take me to the hospital—the prisoner went there with me—there was no bad feeling between us.

Cross-examined. I am sure I did not call him "a b—guy"—we always used to chaff one another in the yard—"Piggy" is the prisoner's nickname—at the hospital he expressed himself as very sorry for what had happened—he has not provided for me in any way—I have been there eighteen months, and he has been there all the time; we have never quarrelled.

EDWARD CHARLES CRIPPS . I am house-surgeon at St. Bartholomew's Hospital—I examined Fowler, and found his clothes saturated with blood, and blood flowing from a punctured wound in his back, an inch and a half deep, and long enough to admit my little finger—this knife would inflict it—it was dangerous at that time from hæmorrhage, but not afterwards—he was in the hospital a fortnight, and is not in such good health yet as be was before, but that will not be permanent.

CHARLES BRYAN (Policeman). (Not examined in chief.)

Cross-examined. I have ascertained that the prisoner has been four years in the company's service, and bears a good character—Fowler's father signed the charge-sheet.

GUILTY of a common assault. Strongly recommended to mercy by the Jury on account of his character and the great provocation he received. — To enter into recognisances to appear and receive Judgment when called on .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-799
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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799. WILLIAM SAYERS (30) , Stealing a mare, the property of James Andrews. Second Count, feloniously receiving the same.

MR. CHILD conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN GUNTER . I am a gardener, of Frognall, Hampstead—on 31st August, from 20 minutes to half-past 7 p.m., I saw a brown mare in my master's field close to the lodge where I live—I missed her next day about 2 o'clock—she was worth from 40l. to 50l.; but I am not a judge.

SAMUEL WELSTEAD . I am a farmer, of White Horse Street, Stepney—I bought a mare of the prisoner for 8l. on a Sunday—I do not know the date—I cannot read—I can only sign my name—he gave me the receipt (dated 4th August)—I showed the mare to Dean.

JAMES DEAN . I am groom to James Andrews—Welstead showed me a bay mare on 14th August—I identified it as my master's; she was safe in a field at Frognall on August 3rd, at 11.40; she is cream-coloured round the eyes and under the chin—I have no doubt about her; she is worth 60l.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I bought it at Camden Town for 5l."

Prisoner's Defence. I bought the mare on 5th August for 5l., and sold her for 8l.

GUILTY on the second count. He was further charged with a previous conviction at Northampton in January, 1869, of a like offence, to which he PLEADED GUILTY.** He was out on a ticket-of-leave under an unexpired sentence of ten years' penal servitude,— Twelve Years' Penal Servitude .

There were two similar indictments against the prisoner.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-800
VerdictNot Guilty > directed

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800. WILLIAM MURPHY (14) and THOMAS RYAN (14) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Samuel Reed, with intent to steal.

MESSRS. GRIFFITHS and STEWART WHITE conducted the Prosecution.

The premises being only the prosecutor's shop and not his dwelling-house, the COURT directed a verdict of NOT GUILTY .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-801
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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801. JAMES MALPIS (19) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of William Thomas Archer, and stealing therein one watch, his property.

MR. AUSTIN METCALFE conducted the Prosecution; and MR. POULTON the Defence.

WILLIAM THOMAS ARCHER . I live at 88, Pemberton Street, Islington—on Tuesday night, 18th June, I locked up the house securely—I was aroused by a neigh bour between 5 and 6 a.m., went down, and found a man named Marshall in custody—my back door was broken open, and my parlour door cut away so as to insert a chisel; but the lock was too strong—a piece was cut out of the back parlour window, which was open—I missed a watch, which was found on Marshall; he has been convicted. (See page 357.)

JAMES PETTIT . I live at 149, Pemberton Street, and am a carpet-beater—on 19th June, about 5.45 a.m, I was going down Clayton Street, and saw Marshall come out of Mr. Archer's house—the prisoner ran after him from my master's (Mr. Williams's) stable door, which is about 10 yards from the house—they went on together about 200 yards—I went up to Marshall and said "What do you do in that house?"—he said "Nothing"—I took him back, and the prisoner said "You bleeding long s—; if you don't let him go we will kill you"—I said nothing—I could not get near the prisoner—he went away, and I took Marshall to Archer's house—I have known the prisoner 10 years, and cannot be mistaken in him—he lives in Stroud Vale, Maiden Lane.

Cross-examined. He ran away after using that violent expression—I had come out of my house, which is 20 yards from Mr. Archer's—the prisoner came up before I got hold of Marshall—I did not say that he had better go away, and that if he did not I would have him too, nor did he reply, "What for?—he ran away before any policeman came up—I was the principal witness on Marshall's trial, and got a reward—I have not been pomised one in this case, and do not want one—I have been five times convicted—I had five months for larceny, four months for assault, and five years for stealing a sack of potatoes from the Great Northern Railway—I am now under police supervision.

Re-examined. Whatever my past life has been, I am telling the truth now.

THOMAS LUCAS (Police Sergeant Y). I received information about the prisoner shortly after 19th June, and with other officers tried to find him, but could not—I did not go to his residence—on Saturday night, 19th

August, I took him in a beerhouse in Pentonville Road, and told him the charge—he said that he knew nothing about it—I inquired at Mr. Williams's, but was not able to learn anything about him.

GUILTY .*— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-802
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment

Related Material

802. WALTER RANGER BEALE (20) and BARNETT BERNSTEIN (44) , Breaking and entering the warehouse of David Ormond, and stealing therein 350 yards of cloth, his property, to which BEALE . PLEADED GUILTY. MESSRS. BESLEY and GRAIN conducted the Prosecution; and MR GILL, defended Bernstein

GEORGE SAFE . I am warehouse boy to Mr. Ormond—on 4th September about 5.30 I locked up his premises in Red Lion Court, Cannon Street put an iron bar across the door, and locked it with a padlock.

DAVID ORMOND . I am a woollen agent, of 1, Red Lion Court—these seven pieces of cloth are mine—they contain 350 yards, and are worth about 50l.—they were safe in my warehouse on 4th September at 5.30—I missed them next morning, and found the place broken open.

Cross-examined. It is president cloth, and is used for ladies' mantles—I get it from the manufacturer in Yorkshire—very large quantities of it are made at other mills—all I lost is here, except a few yards—it would be invoiced to me by the mill-owner—if I sell the goods, they are paid for in a month, less 2 1/2; per cent discount—they are rather a common class of goods, but they are now in the height of the season—they are samples; I may have had them two or three months—I took sample pieces from them.

DANIEL HALSE (City Detective). On 6th September, at 2 p.m. in consequence of instructions, I went with Child, another officer, to 90, Jubilee Street Stepney, and watched the door—at a little after 2 I saw a horse and empty cart draw up in charge of a cannan in Mr. Harris's employ—the carman went into No. 90, and presently returned carrying one of these large pieces of cloth, which he put into the cart, and two other men brought out a piece each, and went back and brought out four other pieces making seven, and put them into the cart—as he was driving away we stopped him, and took him back into the prisoner's house, where there is a workshop and a cutting, room, and three girls making up clothing—we remained till Davis came in—I made a communication to him, and Bernstein was brought back there.

Cross-examined. He occupies the whole of the house, and the lower part is used as a shop.

JANE HICKS . I live at 38, Upper Chapman Street, St George's-in-the-East, with my mother, who keeps a public-house—Beale lives nearly opposite, and I know him by sight—on 5th September, between 8 and 9 a.m., I saw him standing outside No. 17 with another man getting some cloth out of the house done up in rolls—it appeared like this—a cab was at the door—there were about six rolls—the cab went away towards Jubilee Street—the police came and inquired.

Cross-examined. Chapman Street leads out of Cannon Street Road, not out of the Commercial Road—it is a respectable street—a few people were passing.

JOHN DAVIES (City Detective). On 5th September I went to Beale's house in Upper Chapman Street—I saw him there, and he was subsequently taken in custody and charged—I went to Jubilee Street between 3 and 4 o'clock, and found Halse there—I had sent him there from there I went to

New Street, Houndsditch, and saw Bernstein at the counter, and said, "I am a detective officer of the City Police and I want to speak to you"—he took me into a back room, and I said, "I shall take you in custody on a charge of receiving seven pieces of cloth, the property of Mr. Ormond, of Red Lion Court, knowing it to be stolen"—he said, "I know nothing about it, and I have never seen any cloth"—I had cautioned him that what he said might be taken in evidence against him—I said, Have not you had any cloth within this last week?"—he said, "No, I have not"—I said, "You will have to come with me"—he came outside, and going through Petticoat Lane he said, "Mr. Davies, where are you going to take we to?"—I "said" To 90, Jubilee Street, Mile End"—he said, "What for?"—I said, "The whole of the property is there that I am going to arrest yon for, and there is a man there in custody named Beale, who is remanded till next Wednesday on a charge of breaking and entering a warehouse and stealing the cloth which you will be charged with receiving"—he said, "Well, Sir, I must tell you I did purchase it from a man, I believe of the name of Beale, and I gave him 30l. for it"—I took him to 90, Jubilee Street, where I pointed out these seven pieces of cloth, which were in a cart outside the door in charge of two officers—he said, "That is quite right; I did buy them from Beale"—I said, "When did you buy them?"—he said, On Thursday morning, between 8 and 9"—(that would be the day previous)—I said, "I am going to search your premises; have you got any portion pf the cloth?"—he said "No"—I went upstairs, and on the first-floor landing I saw a large deal box, and found this piece pf cloth, about 2 1/2; yards, in it under a table-cloth—I asked him to account for it—he said, "Well, it is a portion of the other lot"—I took him to Bow Lane station with the property—the charge was read to him by the inspector; he made no reply—I asked if he could show me any receipts both at the station and at his place or any entry in his books; he said "No."

Cross-examined. He denied buying the cloth at first—I asked him three or four questions before any admission was made—it was decidedly my duty to do so—I decline to say who I had received my information from but he is a receiver of stolen property—when he told me he had bought it of a man he believed to be Beale, that agreed with my information—30l. was mentioned to me at the same time.

Re-examined. The information was that Mr. Bernstein and two others in the same street were in the act of receiving stolen property, and that the cloth had gone there on that morning, and that Bernstein had given 30l. for it.

By MR. GILL. I decline to give the name of my informant, but I will give it privately—it is a very serious matter for the police—he is a receiver of stolen goods—one man gave me information about the cloth and another about the 30l.—I also found a piece of this cloth at Beale's place.

FREDERICK BENNETT . I am ceb-driver 1980, employed by Mr. Maydell—on Wednesday, September 4th, I was on the Mansion' House stand, Queen Victoria Street—Beale called me, got on the box, and took me to Bell Yard, Cannon Street, where he jumped off—there was a younger man in the passage—they put four large rolls of cloth outside the cab, and some inside, similar to these—Beale ordered me to drive to Commercial Road East, and when I got there he said, "Chapman Street"—I went there to a house opposite an old-fashioned public-house—the things were taken in there and

I went over the way with them and had a glass of ale, and they gave me 4s.—I did not observe the number of the house.

WALTER RANGER BEALE (The Prisoner). I have pleaded guilty to this housebreaking—I was in prison between November and February—I made Bernstein's acquaintance about a month or six weeks before I was apprehended—I was then living at 17, Chapman Street, Commercial Roadmy brother rents the house, and I lived on the first floor, paying him rent—I did not see Bernstein there—I made his acquaintance at a restaurant or a public-house—I have not given any statement before to-day, no solicitor has been to me, and I did not know I was going to be called—the only transaction I had with Bernstein was yesterday fortnight—I took these goods on Wednesday, 14th September, in company with another person, and put them on a carriage driven by Bennett—I went down the Commercial Road and took them direct to my house—I took about a quarter of a yard of the cloth to Bernstein that evening at his house—I had a friend with me—I asked Bernstein if he could buy a job lot of cloth, be said "Yes"—I said, "Well, here are the patterns"—he asked what I wanted for them—I said as it was a rough lot he could have them for 30 sovereigns—there were seven pieces, varying from 50 to 70 yards each—he said that he would come and see them; he did so next morning, and after some little humming and hasing he bought them for 30 sovereigns—the piece found at his place may have been the pattern I cut off (Looking at it); no, this was not cut off at my place—the goods were in my room, the first-floor front, when he saw them—I pay 4s. 6d. a week for the front and back room—he put them in a cab and took them away—he gave me 4l. on Wednesday night before he had seen the goods, and 26l. next morning, when he took them away—it was all in gold—there was no writing—I have told you all that passed—he asked no questions as to how I became possessed of the property.

Cross-examined. The story I have told is the truth—this is the only transaction I had with Bernstein—I was once a packer—he had no reason to suspect me—I did not tell him I had stolen the goods.

RHODES WHITTAKER . I am a woollen manufacturer at Dewsbury—I have seen these seven pieces of goods; they are worth 50l. wholesale price in the season, and the present time is the best time for selling them.

Cross-examined. They have not been sold, they are ours; they were sent to Mr. Ormond, who is our agent.

BERNSTEIN received a good character. GUILTY .— Five Year's Penal Servitude . BEALE was further charged with a previous conviction at the Mansion House in December, 1877, to which he PLEADED GUILTY>.**— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment .

OLD COURT.—Saturday, September 21st, 1878.

Before Mr. Recorder.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-803
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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803. WILLIAM ROLFE (25) PLEADED GUILTY to two indictments for breaking and entering warehouses and stealing money and stamps.— Nine Months' Imprisonment.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-804
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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804. WILLIAM KELLARD (23) , Robbery with violence on Duncan Travers and stealing a watch and chain, his property.

MR. DENISON conducted the Prosecution.

DUNCAN TRAVERS . I am a bootmaker of 2, New Road, Clapham Junction—on the morning of 4th September, about a quarter past two, I was walking in West Street, St Martin's Lane, close by Aldridge's Repository—I was suddenly attacked by three men; I did not see where they came from; I was tripped up on my back and robbed of my watch and chain and two half-crowns—the watch was in my waistcoat pocket and the money in my trousers; they were taken from me while I was on the ground—I saw the prisoner on the top of me, kneeling on me; he robbed me of my watch and chain and handed it to one of his confederatea—I could not do anything; I was perfectly powerless; I could not call out, I was stifled; the prisoner had one hand over my mouth—the policeman came up and took him in the act; he was kneeling down on me when he was taken; the other two got away—I feel the effects of the fall now in my side, and my elbow is black and blue—I was not able to work for three or four days.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I was walking along quietly; I was not sitting down outside a shaving shop—I was perfectly sober.

HENRY REED (Policeman E 193). On the morning of 4th September I was on duty at the corner of Tower Street, near West Street; I saw the prisoner right on the top of the prosecutor, and two men standing by him—as soon as they saw me they ran away; I ran after the prisoner and caught him—I did not lose sight of him—the prosecutor charged him—I took him to the station and searched him, but found nothing on him—he said nothing to the charge.

Prioner's Defence. I was coming up St. Martin's Lane and saw three men and the prosecutor rowing on the opposite side of the way. I went up to see what it was. I saw the prosecutor lying down. As I came up they halloed out "Police"! and I ran away, as I did not want to get into trouble, and when I had got about six yards the policeman took me.

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-805
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

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805. JOHN FINN (22) and MARGARET MURPHY (20) , Robbery with violence on William Parker and stealing his watch.

MR. RAVEN conducted the Prosecution; and MESSRS. THORNE COLE and

PURCELL the Defence.

WILLIAM PARKER . I live at 25, St. Mark's Road, Notting Hill, and am store man at the Pimlico Stores—on 5th August (Bank Holiday), a little after seven in the evening, I was in the Admiral Blake public-house in Ladbroke Road, and met Murphy and some more females there—I went in to ask the barman if they had a later vine; they said no, but there was one at the house opposite—while I was talking Murphy asked me if I was going to stand them anything—I paid for something for them and left to go home—the women followed; there were two; one has absconded—I went into the fields across the footpath; they overtook me and dropped into conversation with me—we were standing talking together when Finn came up; he seized me by the throat with his left hand and dealt me a blow on the chest with his right, and said "What the hell are you doing with my wife?"—he still held on, and with the assistance of the two females they got me down; I struggled with them for a time; the man rifled my pockets; they then released me—I called out for assistance—there were plenty of people passing to and fro; it is a public thorough fare; two persons came to my assistance

—my watch was disconnected from the guard, and was thrown on the ground at a little distance from where I had been lying—the prisoners ran away; I followed them; the police came, and I gave Finn in charge—Murphy picked up the watch and gave it to me; she did not lay anything; that was when the policeman was coming—the blow Finn gave me stunned me for a time—I had had two pennyworth of whisky, that was all, and I had not finished that.

Cross-examined, I had been on Wormwood Scrubs during the day—I paid for half a pint of gin for the females at the Admiral Blake; I did not drink any—I had not been drinking during the day—I was in this public house from 10 to 15 minutes—it was a brickfield that I went into; it is a public thoroughfare—I and the two females were standing underneath a shed—I gave two shillings to the other woman—I did not lay hold of her and try to throw her down—we were conversing, nothing more—Finn was walking away when I gave him in charge—he was 20 or 30 yards away—I went to the station with him—I saw Murphy walking along behind—I do not recollect laying hold of any person and taking part of their coat—I do not remember Murphy saying anything in the public-house about having been to a funeral at Kensal Green; she may have done so.

JESSE GOLDSMITH . I am a gardener, and live at 146, Clarendon Road, Notting Hill—on Bank Holiday, about 7.30 or 7.45, as I was passing down this field, my attention was called by another witness, and I saw Murphy and another female talking together with the prosecutor in the shed—all at once I saw Murphy go out round the shed and beckon to Finn; he and two other men were lying down behind the shed—Finn came round into the shed, caught the prosecutor by the throat and struck him twice in the chest—I was about 10 yards off, on the public path that goes just by the shed—I saw Finn take the prosecutor's watch and drop it—I went and called the policeman—Murphy said to me You blasted fool, why don't you mind your own business instead of interfering?—I saw the watch on the ground; I did not see who picked it up.

Cross-examined. There is a public path within 30 yards of the shed—there was not a great crowd when Finn was given into custody, there were several people—the shed is about 100 yards from the public-house—Finn had his coat on when he was taken—the prosecutor and females were in the shed about five minutes—I was looking on—I had not been to the public-house.

Re-examined. I have not the least doubt as to the identity of Finn.

WILLIAM MARSH . I am a butcher, and live 4, Goulburn Terrace—on the Bank Holiday, about 7.15, I saw the prosecutor talking to Murphy and another female outside the Admiral Blake—I was there about twenty minutes or half an hour, waiting for my brother-in-law; he did not come and I went on towards the fields—the prosecutor left the two females and came in the direction I was going, towards the scrubs—about five minutes afterwards I saw the two females coming behind me, they went up and spoke to the prosecutor again, they got into conversation and went and stood by the shed—three men came running close behind, and one of them as he passed said to me "Come on, mate, we are going to have a bob or two out of the bloke"—Murphy called to Finn, who came up, and just before he got there she put up her hand to stop him—the prosecutor then walked away behind the hut in the direction of a second shed; before he

got there the two females joined him again—I spoke to Goldsmith, asked him to stop as I thought there was something wrong—I than saw Film run round the hut and collar the prosecutor by the coat and strike him—the watch was dropped close to my feet, and I believe Murphy picked it up and gave it to the prosecutor—the policeman came up—I asked Goldsmith to go and fetch him.

Cross-examined. The watch was no doubt dropped in trying to pass it—I had been in the public-house, and I saw the prosecutor standing there with the two females on the opposite side of the bar—to the best of my recollection he had a glass of ale, the glass was standing right in front of him—I was standing outside these sheds about a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes.

Re-examined. The prosecutor was a perfect stranger to me—I was about a yard from the male prisoner when the watch was dropped at my feet—the glass was broken—the prisoner and prosecutor had just got off the ground—the female was close to my side.

ANNA BARNES . I live at 4, Edinburgh Road—between 6 and 7 o'clock on the Bank Holiday I went to the Admiral Blake to fetch some ale for supper—I saw Murphy and another woman talking to the prosecutor outside the door—I went home with my beer and stood at my door, I saw the prosecutor come into the fields, and soon after the two women came down and over took him; they went straight across to the carpet shed—one of the women went round with the prosecutor, the other stood on the side towards my house—one of them beckoned for some one, and immediately down ran two man to the carpet shed, as they did so the prosecutor came round with the other woman, and one of the men fell down on the grass, the other walked down towards the fields—I was about 30 or 40 yards off—I did not see any scuffle—that was all I saw—the prosecutor and the two women went on towards where they make the bricks.

Cross-examined. My cottage is close by the carpet shed—I did not see any blow struck—Finn was taken just by my door—I stood at my door all the time.

DAVID SHEPPARD (Policeman X 341). The witness Goldsmith came and spoke to me at the top of Ladbroke Grove Road, and in consequence of what he told me I went down the Edinburgh Road towards the field—I had just passed the comer into the field when I saw Finn walking away as fast as he could from a few people who stood there—the prosecutors pointed to him—I stopped him and the prosecutor came up and said "I give him in custody for taking my watch and assaulting me"—Finn said "Why not take the other two as well?"—I said "I cannot manage three or four"—I took him to the station—Murphy followed, the prosecutor said she was implicated in it and she was taken and charged.

Cross-examined. She came into the station and was ordered out, and then she was called in again and charged—she was quite willing to come in.

Witness for the Defence.

MARGARET MACKSEY . I am the wife of Patrick Macksey, and live at 38,. Teskerton Street, Notting Hill—on Bank Holiday I was outside the Admiral Blake and saw the prosecutor with Murphy—he asked her which was the bakc way; she told him to go and ask some man, not to ask her—he gave her 4d.—another young woman was standing there—he went away and returned in about a quarter of an hour—Murphy then went inside and paid

for a pot of ale with the 4d., and the prosecutor paid for two or three halfpints of gin—he was drinking brandy—he did not look intoxicated—he remained there about half an hour drinking with the women—the three then went out and went towards the fields—I kept them in sight all the time—I saw a few persons standing outside the shed, and I went over—I did not hear any screaming—I saw a young man running away with a piece of coat on, and the prosecutor had the other piece in his hand; it was torn in two—I had not seen that man near the prosecutor before; he ran out of the shed—the prosecutor was in the shed with the tall woman; she ran away with the young man—I saw Finn; he was there, but not near the shed—he got up there about the same time as I did; he was going along towards the shed, about a dozen yards from it—the man with half a coat ran in another direction.

Cross-examined. I was with several friends at the public-house; we went to have some refreshment, and were there an hour and a half—we left to go home.

The prisoners received good characters. FINN— GUILTY .— Nine Months' Imprisonment MURPHY— GUILTY .— Six Months' Imprisonment .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-806
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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806. GEORGE DYSART (28) , Stealing a wooden case, 2 bottles of whisky, and other property, of Thomas Hinshelwood.

MR. TICKELL canducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM SAUNDERS (City Detective). On Saturday afternoon, 10th August, between 12 and 1 o'clock in the day, I was watching the prisoner in Cannon Street, near the Globe Parcels Booking-Office, 33, St Paul's Churchyard—I saw him enter the office—there was a case standing inside; he sat down on it, took an apron from underneath his coat and spread it over his knees; he sat there for about eight or nine minutes—a number of persons were passing in and out of the office—a boy came to the door with a small truck containing parcels—the prisoner got off the case and removed it from one side of the passage to the other, looked to the back part of the office, and then removed the case down the steps on to the pavement; he again looked into the office, then placed the case on his shoulder, and proceeded down Old Change in the direction of Knightrider Street—he set the case in the doorway of No. 24, Old Change—I went up to him and asked what he was going to do with the case—he said "Take it to Sutton's"—I said "Did you take it to the Globe Parcels Office?"—he said "Yes; I took it there half an hour ago"—he then started running without the case—I pursued him—he was stopped by a man on Lambeth Hill, and I took him in custody—I opened the case at the station, and found it contained two bottles of whisky, a bottle of liqueur, two pictures, and two pots of marmalade—the prisoner said he was of no occupation, and of no fixed residence.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I was standing about 12 or 13 yards from the booking-office, at the comer of Watling Street; the case was standing about a yard and a half inside the office—I did not stop you on leaving the office, because I wanted to see what you were going to do with it—you went about 160 yards before you put it down—you afterwards gave your correct address, but I had then received information—I did not ask you who the chap was that you were talking to at the booking-office.

HUGH MARTIN WILEY . I am a clerk in the employ of John Hinshelwood and others, who keep the Globe Parcels office—this case was on the

premises on the 10th August, it came about 9 in the morning and was to go to Charlton, not to Sutton's, it came from Edinboro' by the Great Northern—I do not know the prisoner at all—he had no tight to take it away.

Cross-examined. We are generally very busy between 12 and 2.

The Prisoner in a written defence stated that a man dressed as a porter asked him to carry the case to Sutton's.— GUILTY . He also PLEADED GUILTY to having been convicted at this Court in September 1876, and sentenced to Eighteen Months' Imprisonment, after a previous conviction..

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-807
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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807. STEPHEN MILLARD (38) , Stealing 3l. in the dwelling-house of Edward Cross and afterwards burglariously breaking out.

MR. STEWART WHITE with MR. SPACKMAN conducted the Prosecution.

LUCY CROSS . I am the daughter of Edward Cross, who keeps a beerhouse in Palmer Street, Salmon's Lane, Limehouse—on the morning of the 22nd August I retired to rest at 20 minutes to 1, I was aroused about a quarter or half-past 1—the servant came down first, I missed 3l. which I had left on the table in the bar parlour—the prisoner was formerly in my father's employ and was discharged the Tuesday week before, he was eighteen months' in the service.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. During the time you were there you were always trusted to take money to the bank, as much as 15l. or 20l. at I time, none was ever lost that I know of—you did not leave on account of any dishonesty, but front having a few words with my father.

ELIZABETH KELLY . I am servant to Mr. Cross—on 22nd August at about a quarter to 12 I saw the prisoner outside the public-house opposite our house—I went to bed at ten minutes past 1, the house was all fastened up quite safe at that time—the barking of the dog brought me downstairs again, I did not see any one—I asked who was there, and the policeman answered me and asked me if I was not coming to shut the door, it was just ajar—I went into the bar parlour, turned up the gas, and found the money missing from the table—there was generally 3l. left for change.

WILLIAM AYLIFF . I am potman to Mr. Cross—on the morning of 22nd Angust I fastened up the premises and left the house about twenty-five minutes to one, quite secure.

GEORGE SHEPPARD (Policeman K 605). About a quarter past 1 on the 22nd August I was on duty in Salmon's Lane—I was trying the doors of the Vulcan beerhouse—I heard some one insider unbolting the side door, and the prisoner came out with his boots under his arm; I knew him well as the potman there, and I said, "Well, Steve, have you just done work?"—he said, "Yes"—I said, "Are they not going to shut the door?"—he said, "Yes, the servant is inside; she will fasten it"—hearing some one inside, I knocked with my hand; the servant came to the door, and I said, "Why don't you shut the door?"—she said, "I did not know it was open"—I said, "You have just let your potman out"—she said" No"—I then went to his house at 2, Kirk's Place; I knocked at the door, and he looked out of window—I said, "Steve, come down; I want to speak to you"—he declined to come down; his wife came and opened the door, and I went upstairs and saw him—I said, "I shall charge you with stealing 2l. 19s. 10d., and also

with burglarioualy breaking out of the warehouse"—he said, "I might have got away over the back while you were knocking at the front door"—I searched him, but found no money on him—I found these same boots in the house which he had had under his arm.

ALFRED HARRISON (Police Sergeant KR 4). I took the charge against the prisoner on the morning of the 22nd—he said he wanted to ray something—I said, "I shall write it down and produce it in evidence against you"—this is what I took down at the time: "About half-past 11 I left home, and took a walk to Mr. Pike's opposite the Vulcan; while I was standing outside the potman came out to close the house; he took me inside to treat me with some rum; I then went towards home, and saw the constable and an Irishman having a quarrel; I went into the Crown and stood talking to the landlord for a few minutes; I then went and got some ale to take home to my wife—I went home and went to bed, and was there till the constable came and knocked."

The Prisoner in his defence repeated in substance this statement. GUILTY .— Six Months' Imprisonment .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-808
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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808. JOHN SENNET (21) and WILLIAM O'SHEA (20) , Stealing a horse, a cart, a set of harness, and five bags of sugar, of Thomas Fardell

MR. DALTON conducted the Prosecution; and MR. CHARLES MATHEWS appeared for Seanet.

THOMAS BATT . I live in Butler's Buildings, Upper East Smithfield, and am carman to Mr. Thomas Fardell—on Monday, 8th July, I was with my master’s horse and cart outside Dakin's sugar refinery, in Hanbury Street, Mile End—I had five bags of sugar in the cart—I saw Sennet there—he was once in Mr. Fardell's employment—he said, "What are vow after?"—I said, "Five bags of sugar; where is your van?"—he said, "Just round the corner; I want five bags too, but I think I shall be too late"—he said, "Shall I go round and lodge the order for you? they know me better than hay know you"—I said, "I think you will be too late; it is no use trying"—he said, "They know me better than you"—I gave him the order, and he went round to the place to try and lodge it—he brought it back, and said it was too late—I then went round myself with my cart, and they said it was too late—Sennet said was I going to treat him—I gave him 2d., and he went away—about five minutes afterwards O'Shea came up; I had never seen him before—he said, "Your master wants you; you have got a boy with a cheesecutter cap there; he has got to mind the cart while you come along with me to the master at Hill and Johnson's in Commercial Road"—I went with him; I did not find my master there—I then went back, and my cart was gone.

Cross-examined by MR. MATHEWS. It is the practice at Dakin's not to execute any order handed in after 3 o'clock.

Cross-examined by O'Shea. I can positively swear to you—I saw you a week afterwards in the Borough, and pointed you out to my master, and he gave you into custody.

WILLIAM JOHNSON . I am a porter, and live at Vine Cottages, Commercial Road East—on 8th July last J was gatekeeper at Dakin's sugar refined—Sennet came to me between 2 and 3 o'clock with an order from Mr. Fardell for five bags of sugar—the clerk sent him away to fetch his van, he would not take the order unless the van was there—he said it was round the corner—he came back about 10 minutes past 3 with the boy Batt—they would

not take the order from him then, because it was too late,—about a quarter of an hour afterwards, as I was standing outside the refinery, I saw Sennet drive past in Mr. Fardell's cart with five bags—Batt came up and spoke to me shortly after.

Cross-examined by MR. MATHEWS. I have since left Messrs. Dakin's employ, I was discharged for having a drop too much.

HARDING FARDELL . The horse and cart and sugar belong to my brother, Thomas Fardell, a carman, of 4, Crescent Minories, and were worth about 40l.—I have seen the horse and cart since, the sugar has not been recovered—Sennet has been in our employ on two occasions, the first time for about three months, when he was discharged for drunkenness, and the second time six or eight months, when he was again discharged, about a month previous to 8th July—he had no authority to use our cart—Batt told me something, and about 12th August I gave Sennet into custody—he said he would come willingly—O'Shea worked for us about four years ago for 9 months; he was not in our employ on 8th July.

Cross-examined by MR. MATHEWS. Sennet said he knew nothing about the theft—he was charged and remanded for a fortnight, and than discharged, as I did not attend in time—he was taken again a fortnight or three weeks afterwards, he went willingly with me in my cart to the station.

Cross-examined by O'Shea. You were taken on Monday night, 29th July—I was walking down the Borough with Batt to see if he could find anybody answering the description of the unknown person who had induced him to leave the cart, we saw you, and Batt touched me; you saw us staring at you and you came up and said "What is this yen are saying about me, that I am wanted, and all that"—I said to Batt "Do you know this man?" and he said "Yes, that is the man that came and told me I was wanted at Hill and Johnson's," and I gave you in charge—you said you would come to the station.

WALTER CORDEROY . I go behind Charles Taylor's van—on 8th July I was at Dakin's minding Fardell's cart—Sennet sent me for a pennyworth of tobacco, I went for it, and when I came back Sennet and the cart were gone—I did not see O'Shea.

Cross-examined by MR. MATHEWS; I was at Worship Street—what I said was taken down—I did not sign it, it was not read over—I stated what I have said now—I said Sennet was the man.

EDMUND LEE . I am a carman, and live at Henry Cottages, Yalding Road, Bermondsey—on 8th July, between 12 and 1, I was at Pinchin and Johnson's, oil-merchants, in St. George's-in-the-East, and had some beer with the two prisoners.

Cross-examined. I was asked about this the next morning—I gave evidence at Worship Street last Monday.

WALTER HARRIS (Policeman M 312). On 12th August Mr. Fardell brought Sennet to the station and gave him into custody for stealing a horse and cart and sugar on 8th July—he said "I am innocent."

ARTHUR COX (Detective). I took O'Shea into custody last Saturday, about 9.30—I told him he would be charged with being concerned with a man in custody, named Sennet, for stealing a horse and cart containing some sugar in July last—he said "All right"; that was all he said.

Witnesses for Sennet.

EMILY SHARP . I live at 22, Wool Street, Dockhead—Sennet is my

brother-in-law—on Monday, 8th July, he came to our house between 30 minutes and half-past 3—I do not know Dakin's warehouse.

Cross-examined. I know the time, because I had been to the dispensary with my sister, and we came from there at 20 minutes past 3, and we had not been in many minutes before he came in, and he stayed tea, and remained till 7 o'clock—the dispensary is in the Blackfriars Road, about half an hour and 10 minutes from our house—I don't know what time we left the dispensary—I know the time we got home, because I have to send my husband's tea at a quarter to 4, and I hurried home to get it.

EMILY ROLT . I live at 15, Old Street, Dockhead—I know Sennet—I saw him on Monday, 8th July, about half-past 3 in the afternoon, at my own home—I live in the same house with Emily Sharp.

By the COURT. I am Mrs. Sharp's mother, and Sennet's mother-in-law—I knew nothing about this till I had a letter from the House of Detention on the Saturday as he was taken on the Friday—I went and saw him, and heard from him what he was charged with, and on the Tuesday the policeman came and told, me all the particulars—he told me the day and the hour when the offence was said to have been committed.

MR. FARDELL (Re-examined). It is over two miles from Dakin's refinery to Dockhead—the cart was found the same day in Spitalfields, left unprotected in the street—the sugar was gone.

O'Shea's Defence. On 29th July Mr. Fardell came with the boy and stood by the side of me, and said "Is that him?" and the boy said "Yes." I was taken and discharged. I saw the prosecutor several times afterwards and passed him in the street, and a man who works for him sleeps in the same room with me. I am innocent I know nothing whatever about it.

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment each .

NEW COURT.—Saturday, September 21st, 1878.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-809
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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809. ELIZABETH POWELL (24) , Robbery on Jesse Winters, and stealing from his person a pocket-book, eight keys, and a fusee-case, his property.

MR. J. WILLIAMS conducted the Prosecution.

JESSE WINTERS . I am a stonemason of High Street, Stoke Newington—on the night of September 12th I was at the comer of Charlotte Street the worse for drink, and met the prisoner, who enticed me to her home several streets off—she asked me for some money, I said that I had only four pence-halfpenny or five pence, upon which she fumbled in my pocket sand began to take the things out—she took a pocket-book from my breast pocket inside, and this bunch of keys (prodnced) from my left trousers pocket, and this fusee-case—I wanted them back and she struck me with some instrument on my left cheek arid on the top of my head, I have the marks now, and while trying to prevent her I got a slight cut on my wrist—she opened the door for me and I went out as quick as I could and found a policeman, who took me back to the room and I identified it—it was the same shaped room and there was a bed in it.

Prisoner. I never saw you till you came with the constable at 2.30 a.m.

WILLIAM CARTER (Policeman K 78). I saw Winters in Bedford Square, Stepney, drunk—he scarcely knew what he was doing—I went with him to 7, John's Place, where he pointed out the prisoner in the front parlour, but he first took me next door—he charged her with stealing his pocket-book only—there was a bed in the room—I found the keys and part of the fusee-case on the mantle-shelf, and the pocket-book in a Dutch oven in the kitchen—Winters had the other part of the fusee-case in his pocket—I charged him with heing drunk, handed him over to another constable, and he was fined 10s.—he charged the prisoner with robbing him and assaulting him.

Cross-examined. Winters was not in your room when I searched it, he only came to the door and pointed you out—I found the pocket-book about a quarter of an hour after you were in Custody, he had not mentioned the keys till I showed them to him, and then he said "Those are my property"—I did not have two searches.

Prisoner's Defence. He knocked at the door about a quarter to 2 a.m., very much the worse for drink, and said, "I think that is the woman who robbed me; "I said, "You are mistaken, you are quite welcome to search the place." We were both locked up, and some time afterwards I heard the constable come and say that he had found the pocket-book in an unoccupied room. That room has nothing to do with me, it is for the convenience of four houses for cooking. NOT GUILTY .

OLD COURT.—Monday, September 23rd, 1878.

Before Mr. Recorder.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-810
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment

Related Material

810. ALFRED JOHNSON (45) and ROBERT BURNS (29) , Feloniously breaking and entering the warehouse of Walter Ernest Sampson, and stealing 100 dozen leather skins and 2l. 13s. 6d., his property, and one pair of boots of James Edwards. BURNS PLEADED GUILTY. MR. BRINDLEY conducted the Prosecution; and MR. CHARLES MATHEWS the Defence

WILLIAM MARLOW (Policeman C 200). About 2 in the morning of 28th August I was on duty in Oxford Street, and saw Burn's turning the corner of Dean Street and Oxford Street—he went into a urinal, I followed him—he was taking off his coat and other things—I took him in custody and took him to the station, and found on him a coat, vest, trousers, and boots belonging to the prosecutor, and in his left coat pocket I found this chisel, also some matches, candle, and two wedges generally used by thieves—before seeing Burns I had seen Johnson in Dean Street about 1 o'clock, with a costermonger's barrow—I asked what he was doing with a barrow at that time in the morning—he said he was waiting for a friend, that he had had a moving job on during the day which made him late—he then went down Dean Street into Gerard Street, towards the Dials, there lost him—about a quarter of an hour after I had taken Bums to the station Johnson was brought there by another constable—about 5.30 a.m, I was in Tichfield Street, which leads out of Dean Street, and found this iron chisel in the gutter—I took it to the prosecutor's premises and compared it with four or five marks on the door there and found they corresponded.

THOMAS BOON (Policeman C 207): On the morning of 28th August shortly after two, I was on duty in Dean Street and saw Johnson there carrying a bundle on his shoulder, about twenty yards from the prosecutor's premises—I

crossed over and asked what he had got—he made no reply, but threw it down and ran away—I ran after him and caught him—he struggled very hard to get away—another constable came up, I then took him back to where the bundle was lying, it contained seventy-one skins, I have three of them here.

WILLIAM CORSBY (Police Sergeant C 3). I was at the station when the prisoners were brought in—Johnson said "The bundle was given to me by a man at the corner of Hanway Street"—the bundle of 71 skins was brought in by the officer; it was a very large heavy bundle—after Johnson had been before the Magistrate I noticed that the forefinger of his left hand Was cut.

JOHN POPE (Police Sergeant C 2). From information on this morning I went to 102, Dean Street; I entered by the door, which had been forced from the inside—I found 95 dozen skins, similar to these, packed up in bundles near the door ready for removal—I found this screwdriver on one of the benches near the counting-house window, it was covered with blood which had dried on—the warehouse had been entered by getting cm a low facia three or four houses off, walking along the leaden facia and opening the first-floor window and forcing open the door, and thus getting access to the warehouse—the window was closed but not fastened—there was no broken glass about—I compared the chisel with the marks and they corresponded—I was at the station before Johnson was charged—I observed his hand, he had a piece of paper round one of his fingers; I did not examine it then; I found afterwards it had been cut and it was bleeding, the paper was wet with blood—he refused his address—he said he was a respectable man.

JAMES EDWARDS . I am manager to Walter Ernest Sampson—his warehouse is at 102, Dean Street; he lives elsewhere—I was. called up between 3 and 4 o'clock on this morning by the constable—I live in Windmill Street—I went with him to the warehouse—I found it in a state of great confusion; about 95 dozen of morocco skins were packed roughly near the door, and about a dozen wool mats were placed on the floor to prevent any sound being heard outside—the desk was forced open; the panel of the door cut—there was an iron bar across the door, and they had out out a panel about 2 foot square in the wainscoting, which admitted them from the staircase—the woodwork was cut away in three doors, by a person who evidently knew how to do it—there was no fastening to the window; it was closed—the value of the property is about 700l.—I had left the skins safe that night, all arranged on shelves in the usual way—a coat, a hat, and vest were taken, and a pair of boots, which Burns was wearing—I identified them at the station—I found a hat on the premises which did not belong to any one there.

Cross-examined. I closed the window myself the night before—no one sleeps on the premises.Witness for Johnson.

ROBERT BURNS .(The Prisoner). I have pleaded guilty to this indictment—on the night of the 28th August Johnson was not with me—he was not associated with me in committing this robbery; another man was with me, he is not here.

Cross-examined. I have been convicted once, and had seven years' penal servitude in 1869, for highway robbery with violence—I have not been convicted since—I don't know how many times I was in prison before that—I was

before the Magistrate with Johnson in this case—I did riot tell the Magistrate this story then, I was not asked, I was not allowed to speak—I was asked to make a statement, but it was no good then, We were committed for trial.

By the COURT. I was not disturbed in committing this house-breaking—the bundle of skins was left inside because we did not have any convenience to take them away—the other man took away one bundle containing about 70 or 80, and he came back to me in about five minutes without them—I asked him what he had done with them—he said "They are all right, come on," and I was going down the street with him when I got apprehended—I did not take any of the skins with me, because I did not like carrying things about the streets at that time of the night or morning; the other man went away when the policeman stopped me—the policeman must have seen him, the man passed him—I cannot account at all for Johnson having this bundle—I never saw him till the next morning when he was put in the dock with me.

Three witnesses deposed to Johnson's good character.

GUILTY . BURNS was further charged with having been convicted at this Court in August, 1869, in the name of David Thomas Jones, to which he PLEADED GUILTY **— Ten Years' Penal Servitude. JOHNSON— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

NEW COURT.—Monday, September 23rd, 1878.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-811
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

811. JOHN CHAMPION (22) and WILLIAM CATHERALL (21) , Stealing 36 pieces of cloth, the property of William Taylor.

MESSRS. DOUGLAS METCALF and BRINDLEY conducted the Prosecution; and MR. G. MATHEWS the Defence.

WILLIAM TAYLOR . I am a mantle manufacturer, of 76, Greeham Street—I sell cloth cuttings to Mr. Burt, and a large quantity to Mr. Herbert, three or four tons a month—when we are busy we sell small cuttings once a fortnight or once in three weeks, and large cuttings two or three times a year—Mr. Herbert has been taking both during the last 12 months—I have known Champion ever since Mr. Herbert has taken the cuttings, but I only remember seeing Catherall once—I had written to Mr. Herbert to send and fetch the cuttings away, and on 19th August the prisoners came at a little after 12 and brought bags with them—I showed them up to the third floor, and left them there with my boy 12 years old—there were only small cuttings there, which they packed—they Were there half or three quarters of an hour—four cutters were also in the room, Kingwell was one of them Mr. Newton the foreman was also there—they were about five hours altogether packing the cuttings—these are some of the small ones (produced)—when a bag was full it was sent down to the next floor, and afterwards tied up and weighed—the whole bulk was about 25 cwt in 22 bags—they fetched 14l. 4s. 6d.—Mr. Herbert owed me 25l., and I asked the prisoners if he was coming down to pay me—they said he was coming at 5 o'clock, but he did not, and I refused to let the bags go—I said that if they were not fetched in 24 hours I should sell them, as they were obstructing the passage—Mr. Herbert did not come till the next afternoon, and during that time I had asked Messrs. Mallett to fetch them away, which they did next morning, Wednesday, August 21st, about 10

o'clock, and these large pieces of cloth were sent back, which I charge the prisoners with stealing—this piece measures 3 1/2; yards—there is no pretence for calling them cuttings, they would each make a child's jacket—none of them are small cuttings—two of them are large cuttings, but not the other four—no large cuttings ought to have been collected that day—we had none ready for sale—these six pieces are worth 1l.

Cross-examined. These are not cuttings, they are pieces of cloth; but we should sell them for large cuttings, though they were not ready for sale—my men returned from dinner at 1 o'clock—I had only seen Catherall once before—the cuttings which filled 22 bags were taken from two rooms, and from under the cutting boars—similar cloth was lying on the cutting boards at the same time, and a small piece, half or three quarters of a yard might fall among the cuttings.

Re-examined. I have been in business three years last January—the men used to go to dinner at 1 o'clock, but the hour was altered to 12 before this offence—the prisoners were four hours in one room and one hour in the other; they went into the top room first.

EDWIN KINGWELL . I am a cutter to Mr. Taylor—on Monday, 19th August, I was there after dinner from one o'clock to 4.30, when I went to tea—while I was there I saw the prisoner filling bags with cutting—I cannot say when they left or whether they had finished when I went to tea—during the time the cuttings were being put in the bags I missed about two yards of cloth from my cutting board—that was about three or four o'clock—I complained to the foreman about it, and I think the prisoners must have heard me—a search was made, but it was not found—we throw the small pieces which we cut off under our boards—Catherall shoved the pieces out from under the boards with his feet, and then put them into the bag which Champion held—they were clearing under my bench at the time I missed the two pieces—after they are pushed out they take them up in as large handfuls as they can.

Cross-examined. My board is not against the wall; it is the middle one; it is about two feet from the floor, and a person can go underneath—Catherall laid down on his back and shoved them out with his feet, and then gathered them up in armfuls—after I had cut the piece that I missed I folded it up into a small compass like this, and marked it as ready to cut.

Re-examined. It was marked in the same way as this—there was more than a hundredweight of cuttings under my board—some bags were already filled when I missed it, and some were being taken out—I never chalk any pieces which become cuttings afterwards—I chalk no large cuttings.

JAMES CHARLES NEWTON . I am Mr. Taylor's foreman—on 19th August I was in and out of the cutting-room all the afternoon—I have to look after the men and see how they are getting on—Mr. Kingwell made a complaint to me, and I looked for a piece of cloth—I told both the prisoners we had missed it, but did not tell them the size of it—I had one bag unpacked, but did not find it in that—directly I got out on the landing the top part of another bag was pulled out by the prisoners, and Catherall produced this piece of cloth. (Produced)—Champion called him to account, and told him to be more careful—Catherall said that it was a mistake, and they laughed it off—that piece came from the back of where I stand, at one end of the top room in which the prisoners packed first—there is perhaps a yard between me and the wall—there was a large roll of paper behind

me, on which the piece of cloth a yard and a half long was lying in the morning—I did not notice whether it was there when I came back from dinner, as I had no occasion to use it—small cuttings had to be taken from under the double board at which I stand—anything which will not cut children's jackets we sell as large cuttings; they are passed to me and I place them on shelves, but I call these remnants—no large cuttings were on the floor on the 19th except what was on the roll of paper—this three and a half yards is a large remnant—I cannot say where these other five remnants were, but they ought to have been on the shelves—I place them there once a week when they accumulate—if I saw large cuttings on the floor I should pick them up and place them on the shelves—if they are handed to me I place them by my side—they have no business on the floor; if the men have short ends left, similar to this, they hand them to me; we have no large cuttings till the end of the season, and then what will not cut children's clothes we consider long cuttings—I do not call the pieces I put on the shelf, cuttings, but remnants—if during the packing there are pieces of paper or string among them the packers remove them.

Cross-examined. I occasionally pick up large pieces from the floor; they ought not to be there—when I put them on the shelves they ought to remain there for the season—this piece was found in the middle of the second bag—I have said "It might have fallen down among the cuttings"—I did not miss the 3 1/2; yards till the 21st, when I had occasion to use it.

Re-examined. I have never picked six pieces off the floor in one day.

JOSEPH HOLLAND . I am in the employ of Mallett and Co., of Caledonian Road; they buy cuttings—on 21st August I got 22 bags of cuttings from Mr. Taylor, and found these six pieces of cloth in three of them when they were unpacked—the largest piece was in one bag alone, and the other five were in two of the other bags—they were returned to Mr. Taylor next morning—we do not ordinarily find 3 1/2; yards among cutting.

Cross-examined. I counted 23 bags, but I believe I counted an empty one in mistake; on a second counting there were 22—I have been employed in the same kind of business 12 or 13 years—I have found two yards among cuttings collected by us, but not often—when I find large pieces I send them down into the counting-house to have it ascertained where they come from, and then they go back—frequently in the hurry of packing pieces or cloth may be gathered up with the cuttings.

Re-examined. The piece I once met with 2 yards long had no holes in it; it was similar to this—that is the only piece that length I have met with for 12 years.

By MR. MATHEWS. I once discovered two sheets among cuttings which I had packed with my arms, but they were cotton cuttings, not cloth.

JAMES POND (City Policeman 164). About 6.30 on 22nd August I went with Collins, another officer, to 21, Laburnum Street, Haggerston, and saw both the prisoners—I said "Did you go to Mr. Taylor's on Monday?"—they both said "Yes"—I said" We are police officers, and there have been some pieces of cloth taken from Mr. Taylor's premises; do you think it would be possible for a piece of cloth four or five yards long to get into your bag without your seeing it?"—Champion said "No, it would be impossible; if they had got into the bag we must have seen them"—I said "The cuttings have been sold to another man and six pieces of cloth have been found in the cuttings"—one of them said" I don't believe it"—Mr. Taylor gave them in charge.

Witnesses for the Defence.

THOMAS HERBERT . I am a piece-broker of Haggerston—Champion has been my partner eighteen months or two years, but we were, children together—we had a contract with Mr. Taylor to purchase his cuttings—Catherall was not in our employ, but I used to employ him casually when we could not manage with our own staff, and he was very straightforward and trustworthy—we are not, in such a large way as Mallett's, and we generally supply them with rough goods, and Mr. Taylor's goods being so common it is not worth while to unpack them, so we take them down to Mallett's without unpacking them, and make our profit or loss—it is generally loss—we work for honour: for recommendation—we received a communication from Mr. Taylor, and on 19th August Mr. Champion went there for the purpose of clearing these goods—the packing was done about 5.30, and Champion came back and said something to me, in consequence of which I went next day to clear the goods, by payment of a debt I owed the prosecutor, but I believe if you go into the matter he is indebted to me—I saw his managing clerk and had a conversation with him, and saw Mr. Taylor afterwards—the names of Dow and Mallett were mentioned.

Cross-examimd, "Herbert and Champion" is on our bills—I dare say I have been 100 times to Taylor to clear out, and always at a lose, in the winter.

CHARLES MADDOCK . I am a piece-dealer, at 122, Brunswick Street, Hackney—I am in the habit of receiving pieces in bags, and on one occasion I went with Mr. Herbert to clear Mr. Taylor's premises—you get the goods into the bag in the best way you can; sometimes we have the bag on the ground, and the cuttings are pushed into it without taking them in our hands at all—I generally begin by holding the nose of the bag down to the ground and force the cuttings into it, and then we shake it and put more in, and when it gets half full we take them up in our arms—we do it as quickly as we can, and there is very little room in Mr. Taylor's premises, only just room for the bags to pass in the principal room, in which there are six boards—the boards are near each other; there is just room for the men to work—it frequently happens that large cuttings are returned among the small ones, and various other things; on one occasion I found a large pair of shears, with brass handles to fit round the hand, among the cuttings—they were the property of Mrs. Simmonds, of East Road, and they were returned to her.

EDWARD SMITH . I am a mantle-cutter, and for two seasons. I cut for Mr. Taylor, and occasionally stood almost up to my middle in cuttings—I have frequently known pieces of cloth on the cutting-board to fall beaeath and get among the cuttings;—it is great carelessness on the part of the cutters, but it is very likely that a few pieces might go in among the cuttings—I was brought up as a draper—it was Mr. Newton's duty to see the remnants tied up and put on a shelf—I cannot see that there was much blame in these men coming and clearing them away—Mr. Taylor did not look after them—I never saw anything wrong when I was there.

THOMAS HERBERT (Re-examined). These 22 bags would not come to my premises, but to Messrs. Mallett's—my carman fetched them away—I cannot say whether the prisoners would be with them—the mouth of the bag is about three yards round.

The prisoners received good characters. NOT GUILTY .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-812
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

812. WILLIAM COLLINS (28) , Robbery on John Hales and stealing from his person one watch and chain, his property.

MR DALTON conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN HALES . I am an elastic web manufacturer, of 26, Baroness Road, Hackney—on 7th July, about 11.15 p.m., I was in Baroness Road between Columbia Market and the houses on the other side—I had to go through a gate, and as soon as I got through I was set upon by three men; they gave me the leg and threw me down; one knelt on my head—they tore all the buttons off my coat and waistcoat and took my watch and chain—they tried to get my purse and ring, but I was struggling and they could not—I clearly saw one man, not the prisoner, and ran after him, but could not catch him—I described one man to the police, and they fetched me about 3.30 a.m.—I was in bed—I went to the station and identified James Fitzgerald, who was tried last session and found guilty. (See page 464)—I afterwards saw the prisoner with a number of other men, and said "I do not know any one there, unless it is that man; he looks like one of the men, but I can't swear to him because he seems to have more hair about his face: I am not sure he is the man"—nobody had suggested him to me—I saw three men when I was robbed, but I can only swear to Fitzgerald—I cannot swear to the prisoner being one of them—no third man was arrested.

WILLIAM THICK (Police Sergeant H). On 8th July I was in Flower and Dean Street, Spitalfields, about a quarter to 1 o'clock, and saw the prisoner with Fitzgerald, who is convicted, and Little George, who has not been brought here—Fitzgerald and Little George were quarrelling with the prisoner, who had no whiskers at that time—Fitzgerald said "If I don't have my corner I shall chevy you"—"corner" means share of the booty, and "Chevy" means stab—the prisoner said "You have not got the heart to rob a man; you have done nothing: Little George and I did it"—I was standing in a doorway, and they did not see me—Fitzgerald then said "Did not I hold the man down while you took his watch and slang away and try to pull the fawny off his finger?"—"fawny" is a ring—I then went to the station and heard that a robbery had been committed—I took Fitzgerald the same morning, and he was convicted here last session—the prisoner was somewhere where I could not get him; but I took him on 17th August and charged him—he said "How is it you have not taken Little George? he was there, and had as much to do with it as I had"—I took him to the station; he was placed among six other men and identified by Hales.

Cross-examined. I told you that Hales could not identify Little George, or I should have apprehended him—if you want me to state why I could not take you before, I will do so—I had heard you speak before, and I saw you.

By the COURT. Some women were standing round and other people besides, who must have heard your conversation, people who live in the same street; but only you three took part in the conversation.

Prisoner's Defence. I went home to take my father and mother a trifle of money, and Fitzgerald ran across to meet me and my wife. He was too big a man for me, but other people interfered on my behalf. I never said, "Me and Little George has got it," nor did I say when I was taken, "Why don't you take Little George?" for I do not know him The policeman has seen me day after day and night after night, and I have passed him in the street, and he never took me.

GUILTY . He was further charged with a previous conviction of highway

robbery in May, 1874, in the name of William Corbett, to which he PLEADED GUILTY.**— Seven Years' Penal Servitude .


Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-813
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

813. ALBERT HARRY POOLE (29) , Unlawfully obtaining by false pretences 2l. 2s. from Emily Parsons, 4s. from Nathan Gibbs, and 2s. from Fanny Ellen Edgell, with intent to defraud.

MR. SIMS conducted the Prosecution; and MR. WARNER SLEIGH the Defence.

HENRY SIME LAWRENCE . I am managing clerk to Mr. George, an accountant at Moorgate Chambers, Finsbury Place—he is trustee to Goodwin's estate, which is in liquidation—the prisoner is a possession man, and had nothing to do with Goodwin's estate—he was often at my office, and was sometimes there alone—he had no right to meddle with the papers in Goodwin's case—I did not employ him to collect any money in Goodwin's estate from the persons who owed money—a list of the debtors had been made, and was placed on the table—he had an opportunity of seeing it—I missed it in July—I wrote to Parsons, Edgell, and Gibbs, asking them for the money—I received this paper from Mrs. Parsons. (Read: "6th July, 1878. Received of Mr. J. Parsons, Agnes Street, Silvertown, 2l. 2s. in full demand of Goodwin's claim in liquidation A. H. P., for Mr. George.")—I must have seen the prisoner after the 6th July—he never acknowledged receiving the money—he had no authority from me to receive it—these two papers are in his writing. (Read: "July 8, 1878, Silvertown. Enclosed you will find 3s. worth of stamps, to be struck off my debt, and the balance I will send you in a fortnight's time, if all is well." Directed to Mr. George, and signed "Gibbs.") I never saw that letter enclosing the stamps, and never heard of their being sent—I did not authorise the prisoner to receive three shillings' Worth of stamps from Mr. Gibbs—he never accounted to me for them—this other receipt is in his writing: "Re Goodwin, 11.7.78. Received, 2s. A. H. P."—those are the prisoner's initials—I never authorised him to collect that money—the matter was put into the hands of the police, and the prisoner was taken in custody.

Cross-examined. I have been clerk to Mr. George since January—I am the only clerk at present—he had other clerks during the year—the prisoner was not a clerk to my knowledge—I managed all the business that Mr. George did not manage himself, and I am as well acquainted with it as he is—I knew him before I became his manager—he was trustee under the liquidation of my estate before I went into his employ—that was in 1877—the prisoner was possession man to go in under liquidations and receiverships—he first went into Mr. George's employ in April or May—he was not so when I went there, but was possession man when I went—that is all he was employed for—I did not hear Mr. George examined at the police-court—I was ordered out of Court—the prisoner only acted twice as possesion man—he was in possession of two shops at the same time, and that is the only occasion—I mean to say that he was not a clerk in the office at 30s. a week—he assisted me on one occasion in the office, and it may have been two, in preparing statements of affairs, but he never prepared them himself—he has answered some letters—I said at the police-court that he

sometimes assisted me—answering letters would not be his duty as a possesion man, but that is what he did—I cannot say whether he was paid for that—I said at the police-court that I ascertained on or about the 1st August as to the payment of some money re Goodwin—I swear that he was not in our service on 1st August—he did not leave on the 3rd—sometimes he did not come for two or three days—I cannot tell when he broke off his connection with the office—I will not swear it was not on August 3rd—on my oath Mr. George does not owe him for his services as clerk, nor is he unable to pay him—I remember going down to Leicester with Mr. George in February this year to a meeting of creditors re Ward—we stayed at the White Hart Hotel—I came back, and I did not pay the bill—I knew Mr. George in September, 1877—I was not present at Guildhall Police-court on 19th September or 3rd October, 1877—I knew Hart in May, 1877—I was in business in May as a factor and broker—on my oath I was not present at Guildhall Police-court in September, 1877, as a friend of Mr. George when he was charged with stealing dock warrants and discharged, nor on 3rd October, when he was tried and convicted there for defrauding a railway company—the prisoner was never authorised to collect money to my knowledge—I have found out since that he has collected money on Carver's estate—he did not hand it to Mr. George, nor did Mr. George give him a receipt to my knowledge—this receipt produced but not put in, is Mr. George's writing—that requires an explanation—I recollect the estate re Gale—I do not recollect hearing in the beginning of August, 1878, that the prisoner had left the service, and was making some communication respecting Mr. George's conduct in that case to the solicitor—I know Leon Brothers—I do not know that the prisoner was giving information to them—I went to Mr. Leon—I did not offer to give information about my friend Mr. George, or about any one's conduct, or about Gale—I did not offer to give Mr. Leon any information—I went for proofs in another matter to represent the creditors—I did not mention Gale's matter to Mr. Leon—I do not know Wilkie—the prisoner was never authorised to act as clerk at all—I know whose writing the signature to this letter is—it would not be within the prisoner's duty to see any clients on our behalf, and press upon them the necessity of doing things, or to argue with them on behalf of Mr. George and myself—I never authorised him—I cannot say whether it was within his duty to argue with people, and impress upon them certain wishes of mine and Mr. George's—I do not know what Mr. George has written—I never saw a subpœna to produce the cash-books and diary—I was not with Mr. George in this Court last night—I saw him yesterday and this morning—I have had no instructions from him to bring the cash-book and diary, letterbooks, ledger, and draft statement of affairs with reference to these different estates in the proceedings of Gale—this is the first intimation I have had of it.

Re-examined. When I liquidated I received my immediate discharge from my creditors—if we had a meeting, and the prisoner was waiting for a job, I would ask him to assist me, but he was not paid for that work—he never did any work in preparing statements or answering, letters, or any employment as a clerk—he had no time for coming to the office—sometimes I did not see him for two or three days—he might turn up at 10 o'clock or at 1 o'clock—he stopped as long as it suited his own convenience, not ours—he never acted in the semblance of a clerk, except as I have spoken of—when

he went to Leicester a meeting of creditors was called at the White Hart; the debtor himself got intoxicated, struck Mr. George, and smashed my hat—a bill was presented to me, and I refused to pay, and have always refused—I received more injury there than I did benefit to the hotel—I think they were all drunk together—they did not present the united bill to me—there was no reason why I or Mr. George should pay it—nothing leads me to suppose that Mr. George owed the prisoner money, and was unable to pay him—there is no truth in the suggestion as far as I know—I have found out since this affair that the prisoner has collected money re Carver's—it was a very small amount—he had no authority to do so. (MR. SLEIGH contended that as he had not put the document in, this subject could not be gone into upon which MR. SIMS put it in, and it was read as follows: "Re Carver. Received of Mr. Poole 10l. C. V. George, May 18th, 1878.") That receipt was given on Saturday—Carver is a butcher—the prisoner received the money and paid it over to Mr. George in my presence, who gave him this receipt—the prisoner was in possession there, and this was the gross amount received by the butcher—it was within Poole's duty to receive it as possession man—it was money coming in—he was in possession to take money coming in, and for no other purpose, and when he got it he paid it over.

By MR SLEIGH. I have sworn that he had no authority to collect money, but he was at Mr. Carver's as possession man, and received the money as a possession man would do.

By MR. SIMS. He was not authorised to call upon any debtor to my knowlege, except those upon whose premises he was as possession man—I as manager should know it if he had been.

CORNELIUS VILLIEN GEORGE . I am an accountant, of Finsbury Place, and am trustee to the estate of William Goodwin, of Silvertown—this is my appointment (produced) under the seal of the Bankruptcy Court, and here is the appointment in the Gazette—I employed the prisoner about June as possession man in the matter of Carver, and of Hare of Forest Gate, but in no other matters—this receipt for 10l. is my writing—I received it from the prisoner re Carver—Carver was a butcher, and the prisoner was possession man on his premises—it was his duty to receive the money—he did so and handed it over to me—he was never authorised by me to collect money re Goodwin—this signature is his writing in each of these cases—I never authorised him to collect money or to sign "For C. George," or "For C. V. George"—he never paid me or accounted to me for those sums—an absurd charge was made against me at Guildhall for stealing dock warrants—it was heard before the Magistrate and was at once dismissed—there was no remand—I was once fined, I think it was 1l., for riding three stations in a first-class carriage with a second-class ticket—I was at Leicester in February in re Ward, staying at the White Hart Hotel—Lawrence was there—I had no idea at the time that Lawrence left without paying the bill, but I was told. so to-day—the prisoner was not employed by me as a clerk at 30s. a week—he never did clerk's work or attended as clerk at my rooms—he only came to look after jobs—he never attended in any way except as a man out of a job would do—it is not a fact that I owed him money and was unable to pay him, or that I told him to collect money and pay himself what I owed him—I paid him 5s. a day as possession man—nothing is owing to him.

Cross-examined. I swear that the prisoner was noting an active part in the management of Carver's affairs, he did not manage the business that I am aware of—I did not consult him as to any arrangement between the debtor and the trustee—I did not beg him to impress upon Mr. Carver the necessity of meeting me at my office and bringing the amount of cash, the amount of which the prisoner himself knew—I cannot tell you whether I wrote to him: "Dear Sir,—I am sorry I could not go to Forest Gate on Saturday to meet Carver, you, and Lawrence, but the fact is, I was unavoidably detained in town till 8.30, and did not return till 11 o'clock." I very likely wrote: "I write Carver by this post to meet me on Tuesday, by 2 o'clock, when, if he brings a purchaser with, him with the necessary cash, the amount of which you know, I can then settle the purchase, "I very likely went on: "Please see him the first thing in the morning and impress upon him that to-morrow is the last day." I mean to say that that man was nothing but a possession man—I also wrote a postscript—no doubt I wrote to him in the matter of Hagar if you have got it there "Also impress upon Hagar that unless he gets the money to settle with the three creditors the case will fall through." I cannot remember the letters unless you show them to me—I wrote hundreds of letters—there is no pretence for saying that I owe the prisoner a salary as my clerk—I have not brought my diary or cash-book here or a draft statement of my affairs in Gale's liquidation—I had notice to produce them last night at my office in Finsbury Place, but they are at Leytonstone—I did not go there last night—I could have done so—the cash-book and diary are at my office—I was there this morning—there is no entry in my diary about the receipt of cash in Carver's case—it is not entered because it has not been given to us—the diary is not made up with reference to Carver's case—I have not been ordered for contempt of Court to pay over 8l. which I had received on an estate in my hands—Mr. Beard is here and he asked me some absurd question—if I had been ordered to pay 8l. I should have paid—to the best of my knowledge there is no order for my commitment for contempt of Court—I do not know what you mean—Mr. Beard knows it as well as I do, and I feel annoyed—I did not see the order, and that is English—it was not made to the best of my belief—I was trustee in McCulloch's case.

Re-examined. It is an invariable custom to make an order to trustees to pay over money, and if the money is handed over there is no commitment—there was an order in the regular manner such as is always made—there was nothing exceptional about it—I was asked some questions like these at the police-court—I have not seen anything like such an order or copy of an order purporting to come from the Bankruptcy Court—if such an order had been made the original would be on the files of the Court—Mr. Beard gave me the notice to produce my books last night before we left this Court—this matter was before the Magistrate on, I think, August 10th, since when I have been constantly in communication with the solicitor on the other side, but received no notice to produce the books till yesterday—the prisoner has only been my man in possession in two cases, and they were within two doors of each other, a butcher and a baker—he did nothing more than receive the money.

EMILY HARRIET PARSONS . I am the wife of John Parsons, of 6, Agnes street, Silvertown—a debt was due from my husband of 2l. 18s; in re Goodwin—the prisoner came and asked for it and wrote this receipt for two guineas, which I paid him, as he said he had been sent by Mr. George.

NATHAN GIBBS . I live at 26, Upper Andrew Street, Silvertown, half a mile from Agnes Street—at the end of July the prisoner came, and said that he had come from Mr. George for some money owing on Mr. Goodwin's estate, and produced this letter, which is in my writing—it contained three shillings worth of postage stamps when I sent it the week before—it is dated 8th July—I received no answer to it—the prisoner said that he had not sent a receipt, as he was coming to call for the balance—I then paid him 4S., and he gave me a receipt "For Mr. George"—the original amount I owed was 9s. 6 3/4d., and the balance was 4s. 6 3/4d.

FANNY ELLEN EDGELL . I am the wife of George Edgell, of 28, Upper Andrew Street, Silvertown—the prisoner called on me twice—the second time was on the 11th—he said he came from Mr. George for money due to Goodwin's estate, and I paid him, believing that he had authority to receive it—he gave me this receipt produced.

CORNELIUS VINCENT GEORGE (Re-examined). I did not receive this letter containing stamps—I did not give the prisoner authority to receive the letter or the stamps out of it or to take it back to Mr. Gill.

Cross-examined. The letter must have been broken open—Mr. Lawrence and I are the only persons to open letters—I know I never opened a letter with stamps in it, and I pledge my oath that I never read it.


16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-814
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

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814. ALBERT HARRY POOLE was again indicted for embezzling the same amounts, upon which no evidence was offered. NOT GUILTY .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-815
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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815. WILLIAM REED (40) PLEADED GUILTY ** to stealing a tumbler the goods of James Fowler.— Two Years' Imprisonment.

Before Mr. Recorder.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-816
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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816. FREDERICK PHILLIPS (40) PLEADED GUILTY to indecently assaulting Lizzie Evans.— Nine Months' Imprisonment.


Before Mr. Justice Lopes.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-817
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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817. ARTHUR WATERHOUSE (24) and FREDERICK WATERHOUSE (31) , Feloniously cutting and wounding John Prowen, with intent to do him grievous bodily harm.

MESSRS. GRIFFITHS and TAMPLIN conducted the Prosecution.

MARY PROWEN . I am the wife of John Prowen of 9, Seymour Street, Deptford; his daughter, Mrs. Phillips, and her husband live at No. 2, and the prisoner Frederick and his wife live with them—on Tuesday evening 27th August, about 11 o'clock, Frederick Waterhouse and his wife and his brother Arthur came home—I had heard my daughter give them notice on that day to quit the premises, but Frederick was not present—when Frederick came home he came into my daughter's room where her husband and I were sitting, and used very bad language because he found his coat was dirty—he asked my son-in-law Phillips to come out and look at his coat, he had got some tar on it in the yard and was very angry—the two prisoners went upstairs to where Frederick and his wife lived—I heard

Frederick tell his wife to throw some water down, which she did—my husband came in, and in consequence of what I said he went upstairs to where the prisoners were—I afterwards saw him brought down bleeding very much from his forehead and the back of his head—I think he was insensible but he could speak.

Cross-examined by Frederick. You were locked up about a quarter-past 12, it was about 12 when my husband was struck—it might be a little before 11 when you came home, it was long after 8—you could not have been in bed and asleep by 10 o'clock, because you were there using filthy language.

JOHN PROWEN . I am the husband of the last witness—on 27th August I came home about a quarter to twelve, and in consequence of what my wife said I went to No. 2, where Frederick lives; I went upstairs, knocked at the door, and asked if they would give me an explanation why they had been using disgusting language to my wife—one of the prisoners, I don't know which, said "If that door is opened we will do for you?" it was a man's voice—the door was opened immediately and I received a blow across my forehead from Arthur with this poker (produced)—I fell into the room on my hands and knees—here is a mark on my forehead now where I was struck—while I was in that position Frederick struck me on the back of my head with these tongs (produced)—I was laid up and am not well now.

Cross-examined by Arthur. Neither of you were lying down when the door was opened, you were both standing up.

Cross-examined by Frederick. I do not know which of you opened the door—it was about 12 o'clock when I went up—I cannot say whether the public-houses were closed then, because there is no public-house in the street—I do not know whether you were kicked out of your room, and I do not remember anything after I received the second blow till I was at the station and the doctor was dressing my wounds—I was on the landing outside when I was struck, and I fell into your room—I did speak at Greenwich about withdrawing the charge, as I thought I might have recovered, but now I believe I am injured for life—my head has been bad ever since, and I am afraid I shall have to leave my employment through it.

Re-examined. The door was not broken open by me, or by any one with me.

JOHN PHILLIPS . I am the son-in-law of the last witness—I remember the prisoners and Frederick's wife coming home on Tuesday night 27th August, about a quarter to 9, they were both in liquor, Frederick went upstairs first and came down again—he had got some tar on his coat and stood in the passage and called to his wife to bring the light down—he came and asked if I was in—I opened the door, and he said "Look here; here is my coat all over tar"—I said "I cannot help it"—he said "Are you going to pay for it?"—I said "Certainly not"—he said "Then I will pay you"—I said "I am no fighting man," and went upstairs, and shortly aferwards. his wife threw some water on me—I remember my father-in-law coming; no one went up before that and broke open the door of Frederick's room—my father-in-law went upstairs about 10 minutes to 12, and I heard him say that he wanted an explanation of what had been said to his wife—I heard no blows—I afterwards went upstairs and found him on his hands and knees with his head bleeding—I did not see the poker or tongs—I said in my deposition that one had the poker and the other the tongs; but that was

only what the other witnesses told me—I do not know who took my fatherin-law downstairs.

Cross-examined by Frederick. You came downstairs soon after you came home—I was sitting in the room about half-past 9, and you had been upstairs a goodish bit before you knocked at my door—you were out in the yard two or three minutes—I did not hear you say "Mr. Phillips, you have been tarring your fowl house, and you should have given me notice"—I did not see you kicked out of your room naked.

By the COURT. I was there when my mother-in-law was there, but not the whole time—I heard no abusive language to her—I heard nothing said to her, but something was said to my wife before this occurred.

DAVID BATES . On 27th August, about 11 p.m., I was at 2, Seymour Street—Mr. Prowen came and went upstairs, knocked at the door, and asked for an explanation about what they had been saying to his wife—I did not hear him fall or hear any blow—the door was shut when I went up, and Papworth, Prince, and I burst it open, and found Mr. Prowen lying on the floor bleeding—the two prisoners were standing close by him; but I did not see the poker or tongs—Papworth and Prince brought Prowen down.

Cross-examined by Frederick. I live at 8, Seymour Street; not with the prosecutor—I did not challenge you to fight, or throw a stone through a pane of glass in your window—I was not there at that time; I was going home, and such a row as that was sure to fetch the neighbours out

JOHN PAPWORTH . I live at 5, Seymour Street—on 27th August my attention was attracted to No. 2 by loud talking—I live opposite—I heard Frederick using bad language every word he said, and went over to see—I saw some water thrown by Mrs. Waterhouse—I heard Prowen go upstain—he said that he wanted an explanation why he had insulted his mistress in the way he had—they said that they would settle him if he opened the door—I heard the door opened and heard Mr. Prowen fall—I went upstairs with others and found the door shut—we wrenched it open and I saw Frederick with the tongs in his hand and Arthur with this poker—Frederick tried to hit me with the tongs, but I snatched them from his hands—Prowen was lying on his face on the floor, bleeding very much from his forehead, but not much from the back of his head—we helped him downstairs.

Cross-examined by Arthur. I did not burst the door open before anything occurred—I did not hit you on the face, and cut your nose, and make your face all over blood—I never touched you at all; but I took the tongs from your brother.

Cross-examined by Frederick When I entered you were in the act of striking the old gentleman a second time with the poker—I did not hear you say to your brother" I must leave go the door and put on my trousers, "nor did he come and slam the door—I did not hit you on your mouth or kick you on your knee-cap; you hit me with the tongs and bent them—I did not kick you on your back as you went downstairs, or at all; but when I took the tongs from you I pulled you by the back of the neck and threw you on the landing, so as to attend to the old man—I lived in the room you live in, but left because it was not big enough, not on account of my disgusting talk; but your language was disgraceful—I heard you out in the street a good many times that night—I saw no stone thrown.

THOMAS PRINCE . I live at 9, Seymour Street, with Prowen—I heard Frederick using bad language that night, and heard Prowen's wife tell

Prowen what had occurred—he went to No 2, went up to the door, and asked for an explanation; I was on the stairs and heard him—a voice inside said that if he came inside he would do for him—I heard somebody come out, and then a sound like a heavy blow, and heard Prowen fall—I went up with Papworth, forced the door open, and saw Arthur with a poker in his hand and Frederick with the tongs, in the act of striking Prowen again, but Papworth caught his hand, and the blow struck him instead—I took the tongs from Frederick—Prowen was lying on the floor face downward; I assisted in getting him downstairs, and Papworth and I took him to the station, where his wounds were attended by a doctor—I saw no stone thrown at Frederick that evening, or at any one.

Cross-examined by Arthur. I did not burst the door open before the row commenced—no one knocked you about.

Cross-examined by Frederick. I heard the blow, and heard Prowen fall immediately—if he fell outside on the landing, you must have pulled him inside—when I heard your language first it was 9 o'clock, when I was going home from work—I did not see you in the street that night only when I went down after a policeman.

WILLIAM GILL (Policeman R 221). I was on duty, and was called between 9 and 10 at night; the prisoners were then sitting outside using filthy language, and they complained that a pail of water had been thrown over Mrs. Phillips, who was very heavy in the family way—I said that I could not interfere with what was done in the house—something was done afterwards, and some of the prosecutor's friends came to the station and complained—at 12 o'clock I heard a great noise; I ran in that direction, and the prisoners came running out with Papworth and Prince after them, who said, "They have knocked poor old Prowen about with the tongs"—I saw Prowen with a large wound on his forehead; I could see his skull, and he was bleeding—I took the prisoners to the station, and asked them what they had done it for—they said that they were justified because he had bust their door open.

Cross-examined by Arthur. You had some blood on your cheek—you did not show me that your hand was cut—you were both without shoes—I don't think you had a coat on.

Cross-examined by Frederick. I did not hear you halloaing "Police!" and "Murder!"—you did not tell me to take Prowen for breaking your door open—I allowed you to put on your clothes—you were holding up your trousers as you had no braces on—I did not have to flatten the snack of the door before I could shut it, where they had burst it open—I did not lock it and give your wife the key.

Re-examined. There was blood on Arthur's chin, but I saw no would FREDERICK FISHER, M.R.C.S. I live at Edward Street, Deptford—on 28th August between 1 and 2 a.m. I was sent for to Deptford station, and saw Prowen suffering from two very severe lacerated wounds, one on his forehead 2 3/4 inches long, and down to the bone, and another at the back of his head also to the bone—this poker or tongs would be likely to cause them—they might have been dangerous; erysipelas might have set in, and there might have been concussion of the brain—I attended him about a fortnight—he has not recovered yet, and he may be permanently injured; he has got into a stupid condition, and his deafness has increased—there is incipient injury to the brain, which sometimes leads to fits.

The Prisoners in their defence stated that they were supping together at Frederick's lodgings, and heard persons outside calling, out that Frederick's wife had taken them both home to sleep with her; that Frederick opened the window and told them that it was only his brother having supper, when a stone was thrown at his head, which broke the window, and afterwards when they were in bed the persons rushed upstairs and broke open the door and they were struck and kicked, and being naked and barefooted defended themselves, and whatever happened to the prosecutor was only his own fault. GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment each .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-818
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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818. ERNEST WILLIAMS (23) was indicted for the abduction of Kate Bloomfield, a girl under 16 years of age.

MR. GRAIN conducted the Prosecution; and MR. LILLY the Defence. NOT GUILTY .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-819
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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819. ABRAHAM PETER LEONARD (49) , For that he, being trustee of 533l. 16s. 11d. unlawfully did convert the same to his own use and benefit.

MR. STRAIGHT conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES HEMBOROUGH . I am a publican out of business, and live at 38, Cambridge Street, Camberwell—in 1859 I married Mrs. Mary Lovett, who was possessed of 1,000l., which was in the hands of Huggins's, the brewers—prior to the marriage, this settlement (produced) was duly drawn up and executed—this is the prisoner's signature, this is mine, and this is my wife's—her property was invested in two trustees; the prisoner was one of them—there was power to them to advance me 500l., which was advanced, and I still hold it—I gave my note of hand for it, which the prisoner holds—the other 500l. was taken out of Huggins's hands, and advanced to Mr. Seabrook on two freehold houses at Forest Hill—Seabrook died in 1868—I received the interest until September 1875, and always got it from the prisoner—I believe he is one of Seabrook's executors—Seabrook's affairs were put in Chancery, and while the proceedings were going on Mr. Lovett died, and I mentioned a fresh trustee to the prisoner several times, and so did my wife, and one was appointed, but the deed was never executed—the last cheque we received was on 19th September, 1875; that was for 25l. less property tax—we have not received a farthing since—I have spoken to the prisoner about different investments, and he has said "As soon as you can find anything suitable there is the money in the Court of Chancery, where I have left it—in 1876 five houses at Peckham were advertised for sale—I saw the defendant about it, and he said if there was a good title he had no objection, and about November, 1876, I arranged with the agent to send the draft contract to the defendant, and heard from the defendant afterwards that he had received it; he said that he could not entertain it, as there was only a two-years' title—I said that we were pur chasing of Mr. Strong, one of the Surrey Magistrates, who was too much a man of business to buy anything that had not got a good title; he said "Well, I will see into it, and you had better see me again in the course of two or three days"—when I saw him again he said that he had investigated the matter and found it was quite right, as Mr. Strong fell back on his old forty-years' title, and that he had put the matter into Mr. Watson's hands, and pulled out his purse and showed me a note which I believe was a 50l. which he said he was going to give Mr. Watson to pay the deposit with—I

then left him—a communication was afterwards made to me, and I came up and saw the defendant; he said "Watson will be here presently; you had better wait till he comes"—I waited from 11 to 3, but he did not come—I never saw any person named Watson—the property was sold because the prisoner never signed the contract—the endorsement on the cheque is the defendant's writing. (This was dated 20th August, 1875, for 530l. 16s. 11d. on account of the Court of Chancery, and endorsed by A. P. Leonard.) I have never had the 530l.; the prisoner has never accounted to me for it, only for the interest up to 1878.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I never asked you for the money, but I applied to you for an investment—I had no right to ask you for the money; you led me to believe it was still in the Court of Chancery, and that you were getting no interest—there is a stamped envelope attached to the depositions. (Stamped 15th May, 1876)—I never read the contents—I did not object to the 500l. being invested in Consols because I never read the document—it was always understood that it was to be invested in something else—you showed me the draft at a public-house; you pulled out your pocket-book, as you pretended, promiscuously, and showed me a cheque for 500l; I said "What a dangerous "thing to carry about 500l.; "you said" It is 500l. the old man has paid me for salary"—you generally paid me by cheque on the Union Bank—I have never been called upon to pay interest, or I should have paid it to my wife—she and I have spent the interest; the settlement was for her own private use—her daughter lived with us and assisted us in business—she left to get married—I saw you three days before Christmas 1876, and did not see you again till you were at the police-court, Greenwich.

Re-examined. I had not the slightest doubt that the money was in the Court of Chancery, and I expressed no objection—I did not contemplate or authorise his investing it in Consols—the 500l. cheque was shown me 12 months or more before Leonard went away, and he was not heard of again even at his home, for four months—my solicitor made an effort to get his address, but could get no reply—I had several business transactions with him afterwards—I saw him up to 1876, and he always told me that the money was left in the Court of Chancery; he told me so several times after the 12th August, 1875.

MARY HEMBOROUGH . I am the wife of the last witness—it was my 1,000l. of which the defendant was trustee—my husband consulted Messrs. Mason and Addley, the solicitors, last year, and on 9th or 10th January this year I called on the prisoner at Brookley Villas, Lewisham—I said "I have come to inquire what you have done with my 500l., and also to know where the note of hand is"—my husband had given him the note of hand and the settlement—he said he would send a letter that night or next morning to exonerate my husband; and he did not know whether the note of hand was at Forest Hill or at another place—he did not reply to my question about the 500l.—we got this letter next day. (This was from the defendant, declaring that he had no personal interest in the money.) I heard nothing more, and went the end of April, or early in May, and put the same three questions—he said he did not know whether the settlement was at Forest Hill or at the office, and he could not give up the note of hand as he was the trustee; he said "As to the 500l., if I get well enough to go to work I will pay the money back"—I did not know at that time that he had had

the money, and I said that I thought it was late in the day for him to to work for money and pay it back, and got up to leave—he wanted to shake hands with me and I refused, and did not see him again till he was in the police court—he has not paid me a 6d. of the 500l.

Cross-examined. You were not in good health at that time—I heard at the police-court that the money had been paid to you in 1875.

RALPH ROBERT ROCHESTER . I am a clerk in the Exchequer and Audit Department of the Court of Chancery—I produce a cheque for 533l. 16s. 11d, which was paid in pursuance of an order of Court of 25th March, 1875, in the matter of Arthur Seabrook deceased—the cheque was written on 20th August, and issued from the paymaster's office—the trustee would most probably apply for it at the time it was written—there was a certificate and an affidavit in July, 1875—I am not in the paymaster's office, but cheques are written out and the date is inserted when the persons apply for them; they come into the office after they are paid by the Bank of England.

WILLIAM WEATHERLEY . I live at 241, New Kent Road—on 24th June last I had an interview with the defendant at his house at Brockley; he said "I wish you would see Mr. Hemborough and endeavour to get him to forego any prosecution against me"—I said "I am sure you will be prosecuted if you don't make terms"—he said "I wish you would do it"—I said "I cannot do it, it is your business and not mine"—he said "I should honestly and willingly have paid him had not my employer, Mr. Graham, come down for 2,000l., and the 500l. is owing to Mr. Hemborough."

Cross-rexamined. I have known you seven or eight years—I have said that you were looking very unwell, and were ailing from a rheumatic attack—I did not say that you were incapacitated from business—you said that you would have honestly paid the money, and I believe you would.

THOMAS HENRY H. FITZPATRICK . I am a clerk to Messrs. Wontner I produce the fiat of the Attorney-General authorising this indictment

Cross-examined. I did not see him write it, but I know it is his writing.

The Prisoner submitted that there was no case to go to the Jury, as the signing and delivery of the deed had not been proved. This point being overruded, he contended that he was not a trustee for the benefit of another, as although Mr. Hemborough had proposed it, he had neither asked him nor requested him in writing to invest the money in freehold securities. The COURT considered that there was evidence to go to the Jury.

WILLIAM WEATHERLEY (Re-examined by the Prisoner). This is your pass-book; you showed it to me, and I casually looked at it for about a second; you said, "I have got about 2,000l. here," but what the date was I do not know; I know there was a large balance in your favour—I do not recollect the figures 2,249l. that were shown to me at the police-court.

The Prisoner, in his defence, stated that he received the money in August 1875, and that there were continuous negotiations for the appointment of a new trustee, and that it was not his fault that one was not appointed, and had the new trustee been instructed to invest the money in Consols, it would have been invested there; that the estate was administered in Chancery, and he was one of the executors, and had paid the interest year by year to Mr. Hemborough; who instead of going to a Court of Equity, had come to a Criminal Court, where a defendant could not give evidence on oath; on the assumption that friends would come forward and pay the amount. He

contended that it was not likely he should rob a man of 500l. when he had a balance of 1,800l. at his banker's.

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment .

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-820
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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820. THOMAS BROWN alias RICHARD OTT (26) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. LLOYD conducted the Prosecution.

ESTHER HUTCHINSON . I am the wife of William Hutchinson, and serve at the Telegraph public-house, Deptford—on Monday, 6th August, about 4.50 p.m., I served the prisoner, and another man came—the other man tendered a bad shilling, which I found by testing it—I said, "Don't take it to any one else, as I have marked it"—it was so soft that my teeth made an impression—they had a conversation between themselves, but I could not say what it was—the prisoner paid me with a good sixpence, and I gave him the change, and they left—about half an hour afterwards the prisoner was brought back in custody.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I recognised you at Lambeth police-court.

ANNIE SALTER I keep the King's Head, Union Street, Deptford—on 5th August, at about 5.20 p.m., I served the prisoner and another man with some gin, and the latter tendered a bad shilling—the prisoner then paid me with a good one—I called their attention to the bad one, and one of them said he had no idea it was bad—I gave the prisoner the change, and returned the bad coin—a person named Brown came in and spoke to me, and I called George our potman—Mr. Brown came round and fastened the door where the prisoner and the other man were, but while he was speaking to me one of them slipped the bolt and they both got out—Brown ran after them.

ROBERT BROWN . I live at 2, Ivy Cottages, Deptford, I was outside the Telegraph public-house at about 5 o'clock p.m on 5th August, when I saw the prisoner and another man go into the public-house and saw them leave two or three minutes afterward—I followed them down from Aveling Street into Falcon Row, when they had a little consolation together, and they went up to the King's Head—the house stands in two streets, and is about 500 yards from the Telegraph—I went into the King's Head and spoke to Mrs. Salter—the prisoner and the other man were in the Union Street side box—I afterwards saw them in the house and went to try and find a constable—I could not find one, and went back to the house, took the strap off the door and let the bolt fall—I spoke to the landlady and then the prisoner slipped the bolt and went out, and the other man after him—I ran after them a little way, and the prisoner was stopped and brought back by a policeman.

Cross-examined. I was told by one of the customers that it was a shill ing you offered—the landlady told me you were there when I went to fetch the policeman—I did not lose sight of you for two or three minutes.

GEORGE PARIS . I live at 197, Church Street, Deptford—I was at the King's Head and saw the prisoner and another man in the bar—Brown jumped the door and one of them unbolted it, and they both ran out—I jumped over the counter and ran after them up Union Street—a constable caught the prisoner and brought him to the station.

The Prisoner. That is not the truth—I was taken back.

WILLIAM SNELL (Policeman R 143). On 5th August about 5 o'clock,

I saw the prisoner running in Union Street followed by a great number of people—I stopped him—Paris and Brown then came up and told me in his presence that they had been passing bad money at the Telegraph and the King's Head—he denied being in the Telegraph, but admitted being in the King's Head—I took him into the Telegraph and Mrs. Hutchinson recog nised him—I found on him fifteen good sixpences and threepence-halfpenny in bronze—he was taken before the Magistrate next day and discharged

CHARLOTTE LEESON . I am the wife of William Samuel Leeson, a green grocer, of 396, Old Kent Road—about the end of April or the beginning of May I served the prisoner with two oranges for three-halfpence, he tendered a florin—I gave him the change and he left—as soon as he was gone I showed the coin to my husband and we found it was bad—I gripped it between my teeth before I gave the prisoner the change, I was not sufficiently confident of it—I pointed out the direction to my husband in which the prisoner had gone, and he followed him.

Cross-examined. I know your face—I have not the least doubt as to you.

WILLIAM SAMUEL LEESON . My wife gave me a florin, which I found to be bad from its general appearance and sound on the stones—there was no ring in it and it rose very slowly—my wife pointed to the right outside my house, and I went out and saw the prisoner join another man and hand him something, and a piece of paper dropped at the time—they went on a little further and separated, and the prisoner went into a tobacconist's at the corner of Malt Street—I went in after him, and heard him say "Well, never mind"—as he was turning round to go out, I held up the bad florin and said, "Do you know anything about this?"—he looked at it, and said "No"—I said "You have been smashing down the road"—he said he had not, and asked what right I had to stop him—I said "I can ill afford to loss 2s., if you don't return my money I will smash your face"—I asked the person of the house to send for a policeman—she said she could not, she had not a soul in the house—I then said to him "Are you going to turn up My 2s." or "my two bob?" I don't know which; and he said "No"—I caught hold of him then and hauled him outside away from the crockery and pulled him up to a fishmonger's next door, and asked him to send for a policeman—he said he had nobody to send—I then saw the prisoner with the florin in his hand—he put it in his mouth—I caught him by the throat and said "My boy, you shall never swallow that"—we struggled, I threw him over my hip, and we both fell, and our heads and shoulders went over the side of the roadway off the kerb, and the florin fell out of his mouth on to the iron grating, and then slipped down the grooves between—I said "If you don't give me my 2s. I will choke you"—I meant 2s. good money I had given him—he said that he would give it me if I would let him go—I let him get up, still holding him by the throat, and he gave me four six pences—I then let him go, saying "It is a sin to let you go"—I had appealed to the people round to fetch a constable, and nobody would do it—a con stable came up shortly after, and I went with him down Bermondsey and Rotherhithe to see if we could find him in any public-house—I showed the florin to the constable, and I have since lost it—I put it in an old till at home.

MICHAEL HILL (Policeman 202 M). About the middle of April I saw a large crowd, and Leeson, who seemed to have had a struggle with some one—his wrist was scratched and very much swollen, and he complained of

having had a tussle with a man who had passed a bad florin on him, which he showed me—I examined it and sounded it on the pavement—I got it between my teeth, and found it very soft—it retained the marks of my teeth—I went with Leeson to try and find the man, but could not

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "On Bank Holiday I was coming from Greenwich, and I met a barman that I knew. He asked me to have something to drink; I said I didn't mind, and we went in and he called for half a quartern of gin, and put down a shilling. The landlady said she didn't like the look of it. He wanted to put down a sovereign. I wouldn't let him, and paid for it myself I didn't know whether it was bad or not I undid the bolt and went out. That was the only house I went into."

The Prisoner in his defence repeated the above statement. NOT GUILTY .

(See page 628.)

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-821
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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821. FREDERICK WILLIAM GILBERTSON (20) , Embezzling 10s. 7d., 5s. 8d., and 5s. 8d., the property of the London, Brighton, and South Coast Railway Company, his masters.

MESSRS. LYON and FULTON conducted the Prosecution; and MR. GILL the Defence.

JOHN ELLIS PECKHAM . I am a carman employed by the London and Brighton Railway Company, at Forest Hill station—I live at 32, Railway Cottages, Forest Hill—I produce the carman's delivery sheet showing goods delivered by me on 2nd May—I delivered two packages of luggage to Mr. Carmichael, and received from him 11s. 7d.; I paid it to Gilbertson—I had other things to deliver amounting altogether to 13s. 1d., which I handed over to Gilbertson—the entry of 13s. 1d. in this memorandum book is Gilbertson's, and initialled by him—I saw him make the entry.

Cross-examined. I was not present at the police-court—I have been at Forest Hill station seven years and six months—I remember the prisoner's coming, but not the date, I think it was two years ago—there is the same number of staff there now—the work has increased—sometimes there are twenty-two or twenty-three deliveries a day, and sometimes not more than a dozen—I went to work about 8 a.m. and worked till from 5 to 8 p.m—the prisoner did not deliver goods; he took the money—the goods porter would deliver them at the station—the money was paid, and the prisoner would sign this memorandum-book each night—there would be about three of these delivery sheets a day, not more—I did not deliver goods unless they were paid for,—some people had weekly accounts—the goods porter delivered them—three of us are employed there, a goods clerk, goods porter, and carman—I used to sign for the goods I took out; but I did none of the writing in the office—if I had too much work the station-master would lend me a hand—I delivered goods to a Mr. Stephens, an ironmonger; he had a weekly account—the prisoner was not always there when I went of a morning—I left him there sometimes at night—I knew where he lived, and saw him about Forest Hill after he was suspended; I can't say the time.

Re-examined. Each person on the sheet I call a delivery; but there were never more than three sheets.

JOSEPH KENSETT . I live at 31, Railway Cottages, Forest Hill—I am a porter employed by the London and Brighton Railway Company—I acted as carman during Peckham's illness—I produce the sheet showing goods delivered

by me on 16th May—the total is 2l. 10s. 11d.—I paid it to the prisoner the same evening—this entry of 2l. 10s. 11d. is the prisoner's writing—I saw him initials it when I paid him the money—I also produce the delivery-sheet for 17th May: total, including Mr. Cranfield's 6s. 8d.; 1l. 0s. 3d.—I handed it to the prisoner—this entry in this memorandum-book is his writing and I saw him initial it when I paid him the money.

Cross-examined. I was first spoken to about this about three weeks before the prisoner was taken before the Magistrate—I had sometimes 20 deliveries, sometimes more—I have been a railway porter over five years—I do not recollect delivering to people who had weekly accounts, only one, to a Mr. Stephens—I have been in Court and heard you mention Mr. Stephen's name—I have sometimes delivered to other weekly customers—the prisoner has been employed 16 or 17 hours a day—there is a great deal more work now than there used to be, and only the same number of hands to do it.

Re-examined. When I delivered goods to Mr. Stephens I did not get the money, the amount was left blank—I do not know what " Less Stephens 2s. 8d." is.

By MR. GILL. I delivered goods to Mr. Hill, who had a weekly account—I am not sure whether the figures appeared or not.

By MR. LYON. In the sheets which have to do with this charge there is no weekly account—I handed the whole of the amounts to the prisoner.

JOHN ELLIS PECKHAM . (Re-examined). I delivered goods to Mr. Stephens, who had a weekly account—I did not take the money—it was entered in the cheque-book "Less Stephens so much"—this is an entry made by Gilbertson "Less Stephens 2s. 8d."—it gives me credit for 1l. 17s. 2d. instead of 1l. 19s. 10d.

Cross-examined. The figures appeared opposite a person's name who had a weekly account—Mr. Horniman always paid when I took goods—he had no weekly account that I know of.

HARRY WILLIAM SMITH . I am station-master at Forest Hill—the prisoner was goods clerk—he came there about November, 1875—he was suspended on 17th or 18th June last—he received 1l. a week to commence with—he received the goods, checked them, and entered them in the Invoicebook, and this Inwards to pay book, which shows the amount due to the company—the cartage is not entered there—the carriage and the cartage made up the total paid to the carman—the prisoner fulfilled his duties satisfactorily up to about April last—I had occasionally to do part of his work after that time—the first entry in the Inwards to pay book is in my writing "Willow Walk, 1st May, invoice 213, Carmichael 10s. 7d. to pay 70 O. R, "except" 70 O. R, "which is the prisoner's writing, and referred to the office receipt-book—it was the prisoner's duty to enter the amounts received in the office receipt-book, but at page 70 the 10s. 7d. received from Mr. Carmichael on 2nd May is not entered—it was the prisoner's duty to make the entries in the inwards to pay book as well as the office receiptbook, and to hand the money over to me, and I signed for it the same night in this little book—the amount entered in the office receipt-book is 11l. 2s. 8d., which omits 10s. 7d. of the 11s. 7d. received from Mr. Carmichael on 2nd May—the other 1s. is for cartage and has been paid in—I have not received the 10s. 7d.—the cartage is cast up and entered in this book, which I had for my own protection—the prisoner kept it—in the Inwards to pay

book on May 15 there is an entry as to Mr. Horniman; invoice 134, "Wilow Walk, 2 bundles of plants, total to pay, 5s. 8d. and 6d. cartage, O. R. 84."—in the office receipt-book, at page 84, there is no such entry as 5s. 8d.—I have not received the 5s. 8d. from the prisoner—the total in the office receipt-book for that day is 4l. 16s. 10d.—that does not include the 5s. 8d.—on May 16th, in the Inwards to pay book there is an entry to Mr. Cranfield, invoice 136, of 5s. 8d. to pay, "85 O. R."—in the office receipt-book, at page 85, it is "Cranfield," and the amount is left blank; the 5s. 8d. is not entered—the total of that day is 1l. 14s. 9d.—It is entered in the prisoner's writing—the amount I actually received, and which is entered in this little book in the prisoner's writing, is 1l. 14s. 9d.—that does not include the 5s. 8d., which I have not received—the cartage for that day was 13s. 10d.—that has been paid—the prisoner was at the office 16 or 17 hours, but he neglected his work in the day time and had to make it up, and I had to do it sometimes—he came about 8 a.m., but sometimes much later—he has stayed till 12 p.m—after Mr. Pratt, the travelling auditor, examined the accounts he was suspended—that was about 18th June—Mr. Pratt came without notice, when he chose, about, once in three months—when the prisoner was asked for an explanation he said he did not know anything about the deficiency—it was not my duty to check the carman's or the Inwards to pay book, but I was accountable for the cash entered in the office receipt-book as received—we have not many weekly accounts—it was the prisoner's duty to make a monthly abstract and send it to the head office—the weekly accounts would be shown in a weekly bill book—Horniman's, Carmichaels, and Cranfield's were not weekly accounts.

Cross-examined. The prisoner entered the company's service six or seven years ago at about 6s. a week, but not at Forest Hill station—he had 1l. a week to commence with at Forest Hill—he might have had more if he liked—I do not profess to remember the particular items; I speak from the book—there was no more work at the station than could be conveniently done—I have been there 8 1/2 years—we have the same number to work now; as then—the work has increased with regard to heavy goods, but not the parcels delivery—the latest time I have known the prisoner work has been 2.30 a.m. once only—I sometimes called out the figures to him—he never suggested that I was not good at figures, nor that the result of my assistance was that he had rather more to do—I am not aware of his having paid me amounts in mistake, one man for another—I see "Martin" and "Pink" in the office receipt-book for 17th May—I did not see it in the inwards to pay book on that day, but it is entered on the 15th—the entries are made at the time—the prisoner has neglected to do it, and I have found fault with him—I see 5l. 11s. 8d. in the office receipt-book on 1st June to Mr. Gasson—in the Inwards to pay book for 31st May I see "Gasson to Midhurst 3l. 13s. 8d.," but there is another item of 2l. 1s. 5d. in that book—in all instances the cartage is paid—when goods were delivered, and there were no charges, they were entered on the sheet "Particulars to follow"—Mr. Pratt was there two or three days—the second day Gilbertson was sus pended—I assisted Mr. Pratt—I saw the prisoner about six weeks after wards—he paid 1l. 2s. 11d.—he asked to see the books, but was not allowed to after he was suspended—he was taken on a warrant, not summoned—he was guaranteed by the Clerks' Guarantee Society—the society sent no one to examine the books—the prisoner's predecessor was discharged through a deficiency.

Re-examined. The superintendent told the prisoner he might apply for a larger salary, but the prisoner said if he had more money he should probably get a shift and be no better off—he was living with relatives at Forest Hill—the item of 5l. 11s. 8d. from Mr. Gasson in the office receipt-book is made up of two items in the inwards to pay book of 3l. 10s. 3d. on 26th May, and. 2l. 1s. 5d. on 28th May—there are other entries in the Inwards to pay book with which I had nothing to do—Mr. Pratt has examined all these accounts.

FRANCIS PRATT . (Cross-examined by MR. GILL). I am auditor to the railway company—I had examined the books at the commencement of April—there were no fixed times for examining accounts—monthly abstracts were sent up to the accountant's office—I did not go through those; they are examined by clerks appointed for that purpose—I always examined the books at the station—when an error is found the accountant sends a debit or credit note to the station-master, as the case may be—there are between twenty and thirty entries in each book per day—I was at the station three days—I understood how the account stood the second day—I was not aware anything was wrong with the accounts till I examined them in June—I saw mistakes on 17th June, and from what I saw the prisoner was suspended—I went through them afterwards to arrive at the deficiency—the prisoner was given in custody six weeks after—I had to send in my report—I sent it in several days afterwards, and then he was taken on a warrant—I heard that he paid 1l. 2s. 11d., for which the station-master gave him a receipt—I never heard of his application to see the books—he was guaranteed to the amount of 100l.

Re-examined. He had received credit for the 1l. 2s. 11d. the previous month, and had omitted to pay it over to the parties.

The Prisoner received a good character. NOT GUILTY .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-822
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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822. FREDERICK WILLIAM GILBERTSON was again Indicted for embezzling 5l. 4s., 9s. 6d, and 18s. 6d. of his said masters.

MR. LYON conducted the Prosecution; and MR. GILL the Defence..

CHARLES JAMES COLE . I am inspector of works to the Lewisham Board of Works—I paid the prisoner for them 5l. odd for spa granite—this is his receipt (produced)—I took it to the accountant—application was afterwards made for the money, and the receipt was produced to the Company.

Cross-examined. It arrived a fortnight or more before the invoice—we got the Company's letter about 23rd June, and they would know on the 24th of our having paid the amount—this is the first time I have given evidence.

EDWARD KING . I am a carman—on 6th June I received some gravel from Thornton Heath—it was brought by the London, Brighton, and South Coast Railway—the charges on it were 9s. 2d., which I paid to the prisoner, and he gave me this receipt (Signed F. W. Gilbertson)—I saw him write it.

Cross-examined. The bill may have been made out two or three days afterwards—it was some time in that week—I am sure I paid for it when I received the bill.

ALBERT MARTIN . I am a cowkeeper, of 4, Devonshire Road, Forest Hill—I received four loads of hay, and the railway charges were 18s. 6d, which I paid to the prisoner when he called on me—this is his receipt (Dated

8th June, 1878, for 18s. 6d. T. W. Gilbertson.)—he wrote that in my presence—Mr. Smith called on me to pay the money again at the latter part of Jane or July, and I produced this receipt.

Cross-examined. I was constantly in the habit of receiving goods by rail way—the prisoner has called for the money, but the goods porter generally called—there has been no difficulty in getting money from me—he may have called when I was not at home, and there was an error in the account—mine was nominally a weekly account, but it has run for three or four weeks—the prisoner called in the evening—he did not bring the receipt with him—he brought the bill and signed it in my shop.

HARRY WILLIAM SMITH . I find in this inwards to pay book 5l. 4s. 1d. enclosed as a supplementary account in the prisoner's writing as received too late to be accounted for in the previous month—that ought to have been entered in the office receipt-book, but it is not—in consequence of not having received it, I heard Mr. Pratt ask the prisoner for an explanation—he said that he had not collected the amount, and I then wrote this letter: "En closed I beg to hand you your account for carriage of goods; an early reply will oblige."—the Board of Works then produced to me this receipt for 5l. 4s. 1d.—in the Inwards to pay book for June 5th, I find an entry of 9s. 2d. against Edward King for gravel from Thornton Heath, invoice 90, which is referenced to the office receipt-book, page 112, in the prisoner's writing; but here is no such entry at page 112—I have not received the 9s. 2d.—I caused an application to be made to Mr. King for it, and he produced his receipt—there is no entry in the books of 144 trusses of hay received by Albert Martin, but here are the waybills showing that he received them—the prisoner did not account to me for 18s. 6d. received oh June 8th—he said that he had not received it, and made out an account in Mr. Pratt's presence, which was handed to me for collection—I went to Mr. Martin, and he presented his receipt.

Cross-examined. When the conversation was going on, the prisoner knew that accounts were going to those people, and he said he believed he had not received them and knew nothing about a deficiency, and he came and wanted to see the books—goods sometimes arrive before the invoice, we then deliver them without charge, and the charge follows—I cannot say whether this gravel arrived before the invoice, and I do not know whether in such a case an assumed charge is made without waiting for the invoice—I cannot tell what the goods clerk does—it was the prisoner's place to collect accounts as well as the goods clerk's, when the goods porter could not get them in—this 5l. odd occurs just about' the date of Mr. Gasson's account—the company have sent in their bill to the Guarantee Society.

Re-examined. The amount of it is 25l. odd—King's, Martin's, and Gasson's accounts were specially brought to the prisoner's notice by Mr. Pratt, and the prisoner made out in my presence the second account to send in to Mr. Martin—Mr. Pratt took it from him and handed it to me.

FRANCIS PRATT . I am travelling auditor to the Brighton Railway Com pany—on 18th June I examined the books of Forest Hill station—there was no entry in the office receipt-book of 18s. 6d. paid by Mr. Martin on June 8th—I asked the prisoner if it was outstanding by Mr. Martin, he said that it was, and made out a bill in my presence for the amount—I said "Are you sure this is owing, "he said "Yes," and I gave the bill to Mr. Smith to collect—I particularly called his attention to Mr. Carmichæl's account

on account of it being a large one—he said that the reason it was outstand ing was, that his accounts had to go before the Board to get their sanction for the payment of the money, and it would probably be a fortnight before it was paid—I applied to Mr. Smith, who said that the account the prisoner gave was probably correct—that was on 18th June, and I have never seen the prisoner since to have a conversation with him—he had to make twenty or twenty-five entries per day for goods sent in or out—I see that Mr. Smith, the station-master, has assisted in keeping the books—I asked for an ex planation in the prisoner's presence, and Mr. Smith said that he had been obliged to assist the prisoner in consequence of his irregularities—I then advised his suspension at once—I sent in my report the day after, it is dated June 19th—further matters transpired after that.

Cross-examined. I have had twelve years' experience in examining books—I took two days to go through the books, as there were many falsifications—the claim on the Guarantee Society was 25l. 14s. 10d.—these items were mentioned to the prisoner, one item after another, and he said decidedly that he had not been paid.

Re-examined. I was present at the police-court when something was said about examining the books—the Magistrate said that he had no power, they must apply to the company—no application has been made by the prisoner to examine the books, or it would have been referred to me.

By MR. GILL. Mr. Smith did not bring it to my knowledge that he had been applied to to examine the books—the application would come to my knowledge, but we should not consider an application made to Mr. Smith as an application made to the company.

GUILTY. Strongly recommended to mercy by the Jury on account of the manner in which the books were kept. Nine Months' Imprisonment .

Before Mr. Recorder.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-823
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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823. THOMAS TURNBULL (34) PLEADED GUILTY to stealing a coat, the property of Morris Silver, having been convicted of felony in April, 1878.— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-824
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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824. WILLIAM BIRD (41) , Feloniously forging and uttering an order for 5l., with intent to defraud.

MR. BRINDLEY conducted the Prosecution.

MARK KENNARD . I am a metal dealer, of 43, Silver Street, Rotherhithe—on 6th July the prisoner came to purchase four boilers—they weighed 111lb., at 1s. a pound, which would be 5l. 11s.—he borrowed 10s. of me, and gave me this 5l. cheque, signed "R. Mole," as a deposit on the purchase—he said he would send on the Monday—on the Monday a person called from him and brought this cheque for 7l. and this letter. (Read: "July 7, 1878. Dear Sir,—Enclosed is cheque for 7l. for coppers. Will see you some time to-morrow. Please return the 5l. cheque by the bearer. Yours Wm. Bird.") I had cashed, the 5l. cheque on the Saturday evening—I got it back on the Wednesday following from Mr. Glover, marked "No effects"—I took the 7l. cheque to my own bank, the London and Westminster, and that was afterwards returned, marked "No effects."

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I did not first introduce the coppers to your notice, stating that they were worth 10l., and that I could make money by them—I did not say they were worth eighteen pence a pound; I have no

doubt they are—I did not promise to return you the 5l. cheque on the Monday—I did not offer your messenger 19s., the difference between the value of the boilers and the 7l. cheque, nor did he refuse to take it—it was not arranged that the boilers should be invoiced at 1s. 4d. a pound; you said you could make that—you asked me to hold over the 7l. cheque for a day, which was done.

SEPTIMUS FRENCH . I live at 7, Norman Street, St. Luke's—I know the prisoner—on 12th July he sold me this pawn-ticket, and with it I redeemed four boilers from Attenborough's, in Greek Street, Soho.

Cross-examined. It was not arranged that we should sell them and divide the profit—I promised, if I made so much by them, I would give you some thing out of it—I have known you some time, and always thought you respectable—you brought some man to say he was going to purchase the boilers for 4l. 5s.

Prisoner's Defence. I admit writing the cheque, but with an ulterior motive, never intending it to be used. When I found that the negotiation was not going on, I wrote to Mr. Kennard requesting him to return the cheque, and I handed him my cheque for 7l. where I had an account; he accepted it, and agreed to return the difference between the value of the cheque and the coppers. I intended to pay in money to meet the 5l. cheque; but finding I could not do it, I went and asked Mr. Kennard to accept my own cheque for 7l.

MR KENNARD (Re-examined). When he gave me the 5l. cheque he said it came from a gentleman who had bought an eating-house in the Kingsland Road, who would purchase the coppery of him.


16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-825
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

825. The Prisoner [ WILLIAM BIRD (41)] was again indicted for unlawfully obtaining the four boilers by false pretences . NOT GUILTY .


Before Mr. Justice Denman.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-826
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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826. THOMAS SMITHERS (31) was indicted for, and charged on the Coronor's Inquisition with, the wilful murder of Amy Judge.

MESSRS. STRAIGHT and MEAD conducted the Prosecution; and MR. ST. AUBYN the Defence.

SARAH WHEELER . I am a widow, and live at 30, Cross Street, Battersea—the deceased, Amy Judge, was my daughter—she was about 29 years of age—between 9 and 10 years ago she married a man of the name of Judge—she lived with him some time—he was convicted, and served a term of two years' imprisonment—I think that was two years after their marriage; it must be about six years ago—before his conviction she had two children by him, who are alive now—during the time Judge was in prison she formed the acquaintance of a man named Hunt—she lived with him as his wife, but. not till Judge came out of prison—when Judge did come out, they lived together again as man and wife—before that Hunt had left the country for New Zealand—she and Judge remained together for about five months, and he was then convicted again—during his second imprisonment my daughter formed the acquaintance of the prisoner, and she afterwards lived with him at 30, Cross Street, Battersea—I occupied a room in the house—Mr. and

Mrs. Nansen were lodgers in the house, and my daughter's children also lived there—the prisoner was employed at Wood's Hotel, Furnival's Inn, as scullion—on Saturday, 20th July, he was away from work—in the afternoon my daughter went to the City to take her machine to be repaired, and the prisoner went to the boat-pier to meet her; they came home together with Hunt about 5 o'clock—Hunt stayed with them for about two hours—they had a glass of ale—my daughter said she had met Hunt in the City, and she had brought him home—when they came in together she said "Here is an old friend, mother"—that was the first time I had seen him since he had left for New Zealand—the prisoner did not appear to like his being there he seemed rather cross about it—he did not say anything then—my daughter said she should take her little girl as far as London Bridge with Hunt and Smithers, and they all left together about 7 o'clock—in about two hours and a half Smithers returned alone—I said "Have you not gone with them?"—he said "No, they did not want me"—I said "What nonsense, you ought to have gone with them"—he said "No other man shall ever have her, I will do for her; I will have my revenge"—he said he had left them on the platform, that they wanted to take a ticket for him, but he did not go with them, they went one way and he the other, he went to Ludgate Hill—he said that Amy had given him a two-shilling piece, I think it was—he said very little that evening—he said again that he would do for her, no other man should ever have her—he remained in during the remainder of the night—he was very restless, very; out of one room into the other—I said "She was waiting, you may depend, somewhere, and lost all conveyance home"—he said that she was with Hunt—I tried to persuade him that she was not, that she had got her child with her—at 2 o'clock I went to bed—next morning he was still in a restless state—he used the same words, that he would do for her, that he would have his revenge—I offered him the newspaper to pass away the time, saying "Not that there is anything cheering in it, there are so many murders"—he said a great many people brought it on themselves—about 11 o'clock my daughter came back with the child and Hunt—she said that she had stayed with Mr. Hunt's sister, and that she and her little girl had slept together, that they had company, and it was too late for any conveyance home, and there fore they had slept there—the prisoner said "I don't believe it"—I said of course I thought it was quite right, she had her little girl with her and they slept together—I then left the room and went into the back parlour; I think the prisoner remained in the front parlour—Hunt only remained to have some ale together, he did not to stay dinner, he left at 2 o'clock—they sat conversing together one part of the time while I was there about New Zealand, but I was preparing dinner, and did not remain in the room long—Hunt and the prisoner talked together—after Hunt left we had dinner, and I then cleared the table and went into the back parlour, leaving Smithers and my daughter alone in the front parlour.—about 4 o'clock my daughter came into the room where I was, followed by the prisoner—to the best of my recollection he said "What do you intend to do. Amy?" she said "Oh, don't bother, mother wishes to go to sleep," or "don't want to be annoyed," or something to that effect—they then left the room together—about 10 minutes afterwards Smithers came into my room and said "Where is Amy?"—I said "Gone upstairs, I suppose"—he left the room—I did not hear him go up, but in less than 10

minutes after that, it might be seven or eight minutes, I heard some dreadful screams coming from the bedroom above the room where I was—I went up and knocked at the door and tried to get in, but could not—I called for Mr. Nansen to come and burst the door open—I heard the door unlock, and my daughter fell into my arms, streaming with blood, and saying "He has killed me; he has killed me, mother"—I did not see the prisoner—I called to Mr. Nansen to assist me into her room with my daughter, and when we got a few steps further she said "He has murdered me, mother;" she never spoke after that; she died in about a quarter of an hour—when I found the dying state she was in I sent for the doctor and the police.

Cross-examined. Up to this time my daughter and the prisoner always appeared to live very comfortably together—he had been living with her in this house nearly three years, and the children also; I lived with her on account of the dear children; he was very kind to the children too.

SARAH NANSEN . I am the wife of Joseph Nansen, and lodged at 30, Cross Street with my husband—on the Sunday afternoon I heard some screams and cries for assistance from Mrs. Wheeler—my husband and I both rushed up—when the bedroom door was opened I saw the prisoner come out of the room—he pushed behind Mrs. Wheeler and went downstairs—I then saw the deceased come and stagger into her mother's arms; she said, "He has killed me, mother, he has killed me"—after the prisoner went downstairs I heard the door slam—I helped to take the deceased to my room, and went to fetch a doctor—I did not get one; they were not at home—the police fetched one—as I went down I saw a knife lying at the foot of the stairs—I did not touch it; I saw the policeman pick it up.

FREDERICK HAYTER (Policeman W 92). On Sunday afternoon, 21st July, about 5.30, I was called to 30, Cross Street, by Mrs. Nansen—at the bottom of the stairs she pointed out a knife to me—I produce it—I went upstairs and saw the deceased; she was then all but dead—the knife was afterwards handed to Dr. Bond in the same state I found it—there was fresh blood on it at the time.

SAVILLE JAMES COOMBES . I am a M. R. C. S., and practise at 481, Wands worth Road—on Sunday afternoon, 21st July, between half past four and five, I was called to 30, Cross Street—I there found the woman lying on the floor dead—on the right fore-arm there was a wound some four inches in length; it severed all the arteries, and cut right down to the bone—that one wound was of itself quite sufficient to cause death—I also found eight or nine punctured wounds on her back.—I did not at that time notice any wounds in front; that came out on the post-mortem examination—I did not make that examination myself; I was present; Mr. Tandy made it—the wounds I saw were such as might be caused by such an instrument as this knife—they were of various depth.

GEORGE HAZELL (Police Sergeant W 18). I went to 30, Cross Street, and found the deceased lying on the floor on her back fully dressed; that was after the doctor had arrived—the back of her dress was torn—the body was unclothed in my presence and I received the clothes, I kept possession of them and have them here, they were all saturated with blood—I found marks on them where the knife had gone through, front and back, there were several in the chemise—I noticed the wound on the arm, I found a corresponding cut through the dress—I examined the bedroom and noticed

blood on the carpet, bed and mattress, and everything was wet with blood.

GEORGE TANDY . I am a M.R.C.S., and practise at 24, Queen's Crescent, Battersea—I made a post-mortem of the deceased on Monday the 22nd, or Tuesday, I had seen her on the Sunday—there was a large wound on the forearm, cut right through to the bone—on the right shoulder there was a wound extending down to the bone about an inch in length, there was a wound in the stomach which penetrated into the peritoneal cavity, that was directed obliquely, so that it ran nearly or about an inch in depth—there were five other wounds in the back, one directed into the right armpit was about an inch in length and two inches deep, there was another on the right bladebone, and another on the left bladebone, both deep wounds—there were two other wounds, one on either side of the spine, one half an inch deep and the other an inch—those were all the wounds—they might all have been produced by this knife—the main cause of death was the wound on the forearm, the others would certainly assist, from great loss of blood.

WILLIAM POUND (Police Inspector H). On 22nd July I was on duty at Leman Street Police-station—the prisoner came there about a quarter to 10 in the morning—he said "I have come to give myself into custody"—I said "In custody, what for?" he said "I believe ou are looking for a man named Smithers"—I said "Is your name Smithers?"—he said "Yes;" I called him round into the office and searched him, and in his pockets I found two white cotton pocket-handkerchiefs, one stained with blood, and two pieces of paper of no importance—he asked me to give him the hand kerchiefs back—I declined—he said "I have been walking about since Wednesday morning, give me a drop of water—I am very hungry"—I said "Will you have some coffee and bread and butter?"—he said "No, a drop of water and a crust will do"—I sent for a twopenny loaf and gave to him, with some water—I afterwards gave him into the custody of Inspector Easterman—he said nothing about the murder.

ALFRED EASTERMAN (Police Inspector W). I am stationed at Clapham—on 22nd July I received the prisoner from the last witness and conveyed him to Clapham Police-station—he made no remark—he was told the charge at the station by Inspector Pound, the charge of murdering Amy Judge—he was undressed in my presence, and I delivered the clothes to Dr. Bond.

THOMAS BOND . I am a Fellow of the R.C.S., of 50, Parliament Street—I am lecturer on forensic medicine at Westminster Hospital—among other things I received from Inspector Easterman a shirt—I found blood spots on the wrist and lower part of the sleeve, some small spots higher up the sleeve, also a spot of blood on the breast—I examined this knife micro scopically and chemically, and found undoubted stains of blood on it.

The following Witnesses were called for the Defence.

MARY ANN WALKER . I am the prisoner's grandmother; my first husband was his grandfather; his name was Thomas Smithers—he was taken away from home in 1839 to St. Pancras Infirmary—he went to Hanwell in the early part of 1840, and died there on Palm Sunday, in April—Joseph Smithers was my son by my first husband, and the prisoner's uncle—he had been in Colney Hatch for two or three months; he was taken out and went to Westbourne Park, and took a business there, and when he was going to Gower Street he threw himself under a train at Hammersmith—the prisoner's

father was Thomas—my husband's brother, the prisoner's Uncle John, died at Colney Hatch—that is three members of the family who have been mad.

Cross-examined. The prisoner's father died nearly twenty years since; he was rather strange in his manner; he was never in confinement; he had to be held down when he was near dying; he died of chronic bronchitis—there were three other children besides the prisoner, two girls and one boy; they are alive—I have got a little grandson only 8 years of age who is very strange in his manner; he is my son's child; it runs in the male line—the prisoner's mother is alive and is here—the last time I saw the prisoner was last summer—I did not know that he was living in Cross Street; I had lost sight of him—he never came nigh me; I had seen very little of him before that.

By the COURT. I noticed that he very often looked very strange and bad, staring at you; I used to feel rather timid of him, but of course I did not think at the moment of anything wrong—I knew of his being ill ever so many times with fits; I have seen him have fits at my daughter-in-law's before he went to Russia—that was some years ago—I have seen him in fits more than once; he would sit on the sofa in the parlour and would jump up and go into another room and beat himself about very fearful; he would fall down in a fit and foam at the mouth; I have seen that more than once—it came on suddenly.

ELIZABETH SMITHERS . I am the prisoner's mother—he is 31 years of age—he went to India, I believe, in 1863, and remained there about twelve months—when he came back he had four or five fits a day—he knocked himself about very much—I had to have four men to hold him—he fell and lay for a very long time afterwards unconscious—he would sleep a very long time afterwards—he remained at home about nine or ten months, because he was subject to these fits—he afterwards went to Russia about nine years ago—he stayed there about twelve months—he went as an upholsterer on board a steamer, to do the cushions.

JAMES ROGERS . I am a coal merchant at Herne Bay—I know the prisoner—I knew him in 1869—he signed articles with me to go on a voyage to Calcutta in the steamship Hindostan—I signed as carpenter, and he as ordinary seaman—a man named Wallace Bell also signed—he is now at sea—the voyage lasted three months—during the voyage the prisoner was subject to fits—he had seven or eight during the passage—I have no idea what fits they were—his features were greatly distorted, and he was foaming at the mouth; his hands were clenched—when he had these fits we used to put cold water over him in buckets—it took three or four men to hold him—I saw him frequently after landing at Calcutta—he was living with me—he appeared to prefer solitude, giving way to lassitude—he was greatly affected by the climate—he used to wander about by himself—I have known him to be gone all day, and stay till night—at different times he stopped away more than a day—he had fits in Calcutta, the same sort as before—in 1870 I went to Russia with him in the same vessel from Hull to Cronstadt in the steamship Thomas Wilson—he had no fits during that voyage—I saw him in the same sort of fits three or four times while we were in Russia, but not quite so bad—he did not appear to be affected quite so much in the cold weather—I have lost sight of him for upwards of the last three years—I met him then in London quite casually.

Cross-examined. He was a passenger on the voyage to Russia—he went

to be employed as under-steward on the steamer on the Volga—I left him there—I was there nearly twelve months—I have no idea what he was doing when I saw him afterwards in London—he did not tell me—we merely had four or five minutes' conversation—we lived and slept in the same room in Calcutta.

CHARLES ARNELL . I live at Wood's hotel, Furnivals Inn, of which my father is the proprietor—I manage the business for him—the prisoner has been in our service as scullery man for two or three years past—he was always very sober and very temperate—he used to come by day and go home at night—he was at times exceedingly moody, although very obliging—he would at those times almost refuse to do his work—he seemed to be under the influence of something or other—on one occasion he asked my permission to leave—I said "I don't see anything the matter with you"—he said "I am perpetually being bothered by something"—I asked him what it was—he said that some spirit or other was annoying him—I told him it was ridiculous to suppose such things as that—he said he could not help it—on another occasion he asked leave to go and bury his mother, and I allowed him to go, and his mother is alive now—he also told the servants I had given him money in order to bury her—I never did so—I never took him to be thoroughly mad, but I thought him very very strange—he was a very good servant.

Cross-examined. His hours were from 7 o'clock in the morning till half past 8 o'clock at night—I did not know that he was living at Battersea—it was about 12 months ago that he said he was bothered by something—he said he was very much bothered by some spirit or other that seemed to be continually dodging him about—he did not say in what way, except by following him about, and he fancied it was always about him—the conversation about going to bury his mother was about six months ago—he was in my employ when this took place, but he had been absent for four days on account of indisposition; he did not come to work on the Wednesday before this happened; he wrote me a letter afterwards, saying he was not well—I have not got that letter, it simply said that he was not well, but he hoped to be able to resume work, shortly—he did not say what was the matter with him—I don't know on what day it was written, there was neither date or address on it; I think it was the day after he left, on the Thursday; I received it before the Saturday—his work was to clean the stewpans and such like, and he used to assist the vegetable maid at times if he liked; he was always a very handy man to assist in anything, he did his work pretty well.

By the COURT. I do not think he had any fits while with us, he had a fall off a stool and cut his head and was insensible for some two hours—that was about 15 months ago—it did not seem to leave any bad effects.

LOUISA BARRETT . I am employed at Wood's Hotel—I was in the kitchen there when the prisoner was scullery man—I had frequent opportunities of seeing him during the last two years and more—he was very kind and did everything that everybody asked him; he was a very willing chap—some times he was rather strange in his looks—he frightened me very often, he used to stare so and looked so funny at me, and I used to put my hand over his eyes and tell him not to do it because he frightened me—he once fell down and hurt his head, and was senseless for a long time—he was on a stool and he came over giddy, And fell on the back of his head—I can't

exactly remember how long ago that was—he very often complained of his head—he used to say to me "My head feels very queer lately; I think I am going wrong"—I used to say to him "Why do you feel like that?" and he said he did not know; he used to have the feeling come over him so, he did not know what was going to happen; something was going to happen, he had a nasty sensation, and he could not see, his eyes went dim very often—he was a very sober man—I only saw him tipsy once all the time he was there—I went away for a holiday and came back on 17th July—he then said he was not well; he felt very strange in his head, rather queer, very funny—that was on the Wednesday night, the last time I saw him—I asked what was the matter with him; he said he did not know, he felt bad—I told him to go and lie down on the bed if he was not well—he went home.

By the COURT. He had been absent twice before for about two days at a time, because he said he was not well, that he was giddy in the head—the fall he had was about twelve months ago; he was not laid up after it, he went home; he was lying in bed all day; he was not up to do any work—he came to work about 12 next day and went on working for some time—he had two falls and cut his head open; he was running along and caught his head against a zinc tank—that was after the other fall—it did not lay him up; he bled very much—I never saw him with a knife—the cut was a very deep cut indeed; he had the mark for a long time.

RICHARD CRESSWELL . I am a surgeon, and reside at East Moulsey—I have been consulted by Mr. Arnell's friends relative to this case, and have had an opportunity of examining the prisoner since he has been in custody—Mr. Sparke, the assistant-surgeon to the gaol of Newgate, was present at the time—I examined the prisoner, and had some conversation with him—I have heard the evidence to-day—it is a well-known recognised fact in medical science that insanity is hereditary; I mean of course sometimes, not always; it often skips one generation and develops itself in the next—I have heard the fits deposed to by his mother and by the sailor; I should say those were epileptic fits; they have all that character; I don't think the biting of the tongue was mentioned; that is usual—the foaming at the mouth, the violence, the falling down and requiring several persons to hold him, are consistent with epilepsy—persons who suffer from epileptic mania are very apt to commit sets of violence.

By the COURT. There certainly seemed a weakness of memory about the man—I did not talk to him about the actual murder; I asked him as to events that had taken place before, what he done in his life—I heard of some crime that he had committed; I alluded to that, and told him it would be to his advantage to tell me—he could not remember where he was living 14 years ago—I was speaking of the event I had heard of, which was supposed to have happened 14 years ago—I assumed that he was living at some particular place, and he said he could not remember it—did not talk to him about anything that occurred so recently as a year or a month ago—this interview took place yesterday—it lasted a quarter of an hour—he had no difficulty in understanding my questions—he seemed a man of very little education—his memory was a blank as to the offence I put to him; he said he had no recollection of what I was speaking about.


JOHN ROWLAND GIBSON . I am a M.R.C.S., and am surgeon of the gaol

of Newgate—the prisoner came into my charge on 31st July, and remained under my control and inspection down to 2nd September—I had daily opportunities of seeing him during that time—he did not to my know ledge suffer from any epileptic fit in that time, and I have no reason to believe that he did—I should of course have been informed if anything had been known of it—I observed nothing to lead me to the conclusion that he was other than a person of sound mind—my examination was nothing beyond mere observation from day to day—I had some long con versation with him once or twice—I was made acquainted with the grounds of the application for the postponement of the trial—I thought it right to inquire fully into that matter—I directed my mind to forming an opinion as to the condition of his—I noticed nothing abnormal about him, nothing particular—he complained of his head from time to time, not of any particular pain, but of certain sensations in his head; he said he felt as if his head-cap was being lifted off, a common sensation—I did not notice any particular weakness of memory; he gave me a very clear narrative of all that I asked him, all matters connected with his history up to the period of the event.

By the COURT. I went into the matter leading up to the act itself—I think I must not state what he said about that—of course it was my duty, in making an examination, to ascertain whether there was any delusion, or any indication of insanity, leading to the commission of the act—I do not think it is part of my duty to tell what he said; supposing he had given me a clear narrative of all that had occurred, showing a motive, or anything of that sort (I do not say it was so), it surely would not be my duty to disclose what he might regard as a confidential communication on a matter of that sort—if he disclosed to me indications of insanity I think it would be my duty to state at the trial such indications as I observed—I have been in the habit of giving evidence for many years, and when a matter touching the act itself has been spoken of, learned judges have continually said to me, "You must not speak of that"—I, of course, defer to your lordship, and will answer—I will state this with the greatest readiness, that so far as regards the act itself he said he did not recollect it—he told me that he had been living with this woman, and that she had made the acquaintance of some other person who had money, and she preferred living with him, and having the money which he had at his disposal, and that this man was brought home to the room where he was—I have nothing else particular to say—I did not examine him him with a view to record every question and answer—it was merely to enable me to judge whether his answers were consistent with reason, and, as far as I knew, with fact—that is really all the conversation I recollect bearing on the matter—I went into a good deal of his history, as to being in India and Russia, and how he had engaged—he recollected and told me all about that—he told me he had had some fits, and I understood him to say that he had been confined when he was in Russia.

JOHN SPARKE . I am a M.R.C.S.—I acted as medical attendant at the gaol of Newgate during the absence of Mr. Gibson, from 2nd September until yesterday—during that time the prisoner was under my daily notice—I saw nothing about him to lead me to the conclusion that he was a person of unsound mind—I was not informed that he suffered from epileptic fits during that period—I saw nothing of the kind—his health

appeared moderately good—he complained now and again of his head, and I treated him for slight biliousness—he is of a somewhat bilious temperament. By the COURT. I was present when Mr. Cresswell examined him—he was questioned as to something that was said to have occurred many years ago; he recollected the affair, but did not recollect in what town or in what year it occurred—beyond that I recollect no particular weakness of memory—they spoke especially with regard to epileptic fits; he spoke of his having had such fits in India; he had told me before that he had a sun stroke in India, which he then described as an epileptic fit—he said nothing at all about the present charge.

SARAH WHEELER (Re-examined). The day in question was the first time I had seen Hunt for some years—my daughter had not been much away just before that time—she could not have been living with Hunt just before this took place; I don't think she had seen him more than a week—he told us on the Saturday, the 20th, when he came back from New Zealand—I cannot tell when my daughter first saw him after his return—she had not seen him before the 20th; that was what she told me, I have no reason to think otherwise—she could not have spent a night with him before the 20th, I was at home in the same house with her every night the child who was with her was eight years of age on 19th August last—the prisoner had no fits while I was in the house, I am quite sure of that, I must have known it if he had—I never saw the knife before this sad affair.

WILLIAM ROBERT HUNT . I came back from New Zealand on 23rd June—I first saw the deceased on the Saturday previous to this affair—I do not recollect the date particularly.


16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-827
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

827. WILLIAM CUTLER (40) and HENRY CUTLER (33) , Unlawfully disposing of 12 pockets of hops otherwise than in the ordinary course of trade, obtained on credit within four months of their liquidation.

MR. WILDEY WRIGHT conducted the Prosecution; MR. BESLEY appeared for William Cutler, and MR. STRAIGHT for Henry Cutler.

EDWIN MORGAN . I carry on business as a hop merchant at Three Crowns Square, Southwark—on 11th January I called on the prisoners at their brewery—I saw Henry Cutler, and offered him some hops for sale, which he bought of course as a brewer for the purpose of using them—the prisoners carried on business in partnership as brewers and beer retailers at Barnes—the terms were three months' credit—on 17th January they gave me this bill of exchange for 86l. 11s. 6d., and I gave them a sale note—the hops were sent to them before I received the bill; I think between the 11th and 17th—I presented the bill myself when due, and it was signed "No effects"—I have not received one farthing from them in respect of this transaction—the whole of the hops came back into my hands from Mr. Bull some time afterwards—after that a prosecution was instituted against me for fraudulently marking these hops, and I was fined and paid 64l.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. I have been carrying on business on my own account without any partner—it might have been some time in January when an old man in my sight put on the false name of Day of Morden on the pockets of hops—I do not know that that has any thing to with this matter—I do not know that a number of gentleman con nected with the hop trade were making inquiries before I parted with the hops—I did not want to have the hops back—they were bought in the trade, and

delivered at the warehouse in King's Head Yard—they were not sweepings, they were trimmings—they were not packed there—I bought them packed—they were in pockets—the old man did not put on the false name with a stencil plate there—it is a thing that is often done—there is nothing par ticular in it—it was done at White Hart Yard, where I moved them to, and from there they went to the prisoners'—I did not know that I was going to be prosecuted—I saw Mr. Day or his son—it was not through the kindness of the Magistrate that I was not committed here for trial—there were several adjournments, and you appeared to prosecute me—Mr. Bridge did not cancel the order for the giving up of the hops—he never gave an order—I got back the hops with the forged marks on them—I did not say that they were put on at the prisoners' request—I might have said it was a thing that was often done in the trade—I did not know that the hops were under Mr. Bull's control till he came and asked me the value, or rather my son, for I was not present—they were delivered at my place—they went to the Hop and Malt Exchange—the manager of that concern had them there—I did not send them to a respectable firm of which my brother-in-law is a member—I did not ask him to send them—I did not send them to White and Morgan's—Mr. Bull did, I believe—I did not get them back again from them; it was Mr. Bull who got them back—they did not come back from him; they remained at the Hop and Malt Exchange—White and Morgan did not sell them for Bull—I had them back from Bull—I had no control over them when he had them, nor at White Hart Yard—it was not by arrangement that they were to be got back in order to defeat my prosecution—I cannot tell you exactly how soon it was after I had been fined that I made this complaint; it was shortly afterwards—I am accustomed to sell hops to brewers—I never had a previous transaction with the prisoners—the contract was made by Lawless, my traveller, with Alfred Cutler, the brother of the prisoners—he would not make a sale without my consent—he told me that the Cutlers were willing to buy some if I would go down and see them—when I went I saw Henry Cutler, and, I think, his brother Alfred—there was a little conversation with Henry; I do not remember what it was—I had never seen him before—I paid all my own expenses when before the Magistrate—Mr. Bull had nothing to do with it, only as a witness—Mr. Bridge did not say that this was not a genuine prosecution, but brought by me to extort money—I am prosecuting this case myself, and pay my own expenses—I have talked to Mr. Bull several times, I don't know about these proceedings, he is my witness.

Cross-examined by MR. STRAIGHT. I only knew Mr. Bull in this transaction—I made his acquaintance shortly after I had sold the hops, I dare say the beginning of February—he came to ask me the value of the hops—I should think proceedings were instituted against me some where in the beginning of May—the liquidation petition of the prisoners was filed in February—I wrote to the prisoners on the 15th of May, "We must stick together like cement"—I cannot recollect now what I meant by that—it had nothing to do with this matter—I really cannot tell you now what I meant by it—the acceptance had been dishonoured at that time—I did not offer to surrender the acceptance if either of them would go to the police-court and swear that they had asked me to put the marks on the hops for the purpose of deceiving their men—I did state in my deposition "I might have asked William Cutler to state before the Magistrate that he had induced me to mark them so in order to deceive their own

men"—it is often done in the trade—I swear most undoubtedly that I did not offer to give up the acceptance if they would swear that—I never offered to give it up—I wrote this letter of the 18th to the prisoners: "Can you or Mr. Granville help me? Ask him at once. Get what you can from him. Let me hear from you on Monday with the remittance. Do not fail. "Mr. Granville was the guarantee for the payment of this—I suppose he was a friend of theirs—I do not think he would pay a shilling—I have his guarantee in my pocket—I purchased these hops a week or two before I sold them—they cost me between 60l. and 70l.—I swear that.

Re-examined. This marking of hops is sometimes done in the hop market—I gave 63l. for these hops—in my judgment that was a fair value for them—they were better than Mr. Day's hops—there is no foundation whatever for the assertion that this was a juggle or conspiracy between Mr. Bull and myself to get back the hops—I never saw Mr. Bull till this transaction—he came to me quite by chance when I was not at home and asked my son the value of them, and left word that he would call next morning—they were not a week in the possession of the prisoners before they were made away with—they converted them into money directly.

WILLIAM GOUGH . I am an officer of the Bankruptcy Court of Surrey held at Wands worth—I produce the proceedings in the liquidation of William and Henry Cutler—the date of the petition is 21st February, 1878—in the list of creditors is E. Morgan 86l. 11s. 6d.—the debts are returned as 2, 961l., and the nominal assets 924l.

WILLIAM BULL . I am a lamp manufacturer, of 447, West Strand—on 22nd January last William Cutler came to me—he had arranged with me a day or two previously to pass over some hops to me which I could realise on, sufficient to pay 33l., money that he had taken of mine just previously, out of a bill he had got discounted for me—I was to pay out an execution in addition—the execution, with expenses, amounted to about 111l.—it was an execution upon his own property—he afterwards came to me—he said he could not let me have the hops unless I paid another execution out for 24l.—the 111l. was an execution at the suit of a Mr. Parsons on a bill drawn by Granville on Cutler—I paid that, and also the 24l., and got the Sheriff's receipt—I then received the hops—there was no bargain as to the price of the hops—he represented that he had a great quantity of hope so well bought that he was thinking of turning hop merchant, and he had either got his cards printed or was about to do so—I, knowing nothing of the value of hops, said "You must send me sufficient for the purpose"—he said "You need not trouble yourself about that, I will take care of that," and the hops came to me under those circumstances—I was to realise upon them, and recoup myself—I got possession of them on the 23rd, and received this invoice the same day (They were invoiced at 126l. 18s.)—nothing had been said previously about the price—I went direct to Mr. Morgan as a stranger to offer them—a friend accidentally introduced me to him.

Cross-examined by MR. STRAIGHT. This is not my prosecution, I dare say I shall have to bear some share of the expense with Mr. Morgan—I have known William Cutler six or seven years—unfortunately there have been many transactions between us—I have never advanced money to any one besides Cutler—Mr. Parsons is a solicitor, who discounted Cutler's bill for me—the day after I received the hops I showed them to Mr. Morgan, to ascertain their value—I did not submit them to White and Morgan—I first

heard that proceedings were to be taken against Mr. Morgan a month after wards—I heard it from Baker, White, and Morgan—I don't know that Mr. Morgan put any value on the hops for me, I instructed him to sell them for as much as they would fetch, I did not ask any other person their value—no one offered me 40s. or 50s.—I did not understand that this was an absolute sale to me; they were invoiced to me after they were sent—I got the invoice the next day, and on receipt of it, as soon as I saw William Cutler I repudiated it and told him he knew perfectly well it was not a sale to me—I don't think I offered to sell them back at the identical price, it is very possible I did, I should have been glad to sell them to any one.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. I do not myself discount paper; I generally get it done; I am not in the habit of discounting; if I want to get a bill of my own discounted I get it—I do not as a rule raise money for other persons on bills—Sir William Russell took my bills; I did not get any of his discounted—I should not think my transactions with Mr. Cutler during 12 months amounted to 7, 916l.; I will not swear it—I have not had his cheques in blank to fill up for what I liked—I can't swear I never had such a thing; if I did I never made use of one; it was left with me by accident or posted to me for some purpose—I had cheques of his on his bankers, and he had cheques of mine on my bankers, and I used to use it for his convenience and possibly for mine—I don't think I placed a sample of these hops in the hands of Baker, White, and Morgan; I will not swear I did not—Mr. Morgan, the prosecutor's brother, told me that these hops were false, and not Day's of Morden, but that was not the result of any sample; they obtained the information and let me know it; that was a month after I had got them; I immediately went to, Mr. Morgan and told him what they said—I don't recollect the date—this letter to Mr. Morgan is my writing, and is dated 15th February (Read)—possibly I sent a copy of that to Cutler—I attended on every occasion when Mr. Morgan was before the Magistrate—the hops were ordered to be given back to me, and I sold them on a three months' acceptance for 38l.—I got poseession of them immediately on the close of the police proceedings—I don't know whether in all my transactions the cheques were those of William Cutler; Cutler Brothers very likely—I never had any pecuniary transaction with Henry.

Re-examined. Some of the cheques were signed "Cutler Brothers"—the dealings were with the firm—in the defendant's last liquidation I lost 565l.—I almost forget who I was a witness for at Wandsworth; I was subpœnaed by the Hop Association.

MR. BESLEY submitted that there was no case to go to the Jury. The charge was not for obtaining the hops from Morgan, but for disposing of them otherwise than in the ordinary course of trade. Where goods were sold at a great sacrifice there might be something to answer, but here the goods were sold at a profit. Further, the property which the section of the Act intended to cover must be "the property of the bankrupt divisible amongst his creditors." In this case no property passed at all. The forgery of the trade mark by Morgan prevented any property vesting in the Cutlers, and they did wrong in treating Morgan as a creditor.

MR. WRIGHT contended that the property had been disposed of otherwise than in the ordinary course of trade.

The RECORDER was of opinion that the first objection must prevail. The facts did not bring the case within the meaning of the 15th sub-section of

the Debtors Act. There was no evidence that these hops were disposed of otherwise than in the ordinary course of trade. It must be a very common thing for brewers to dispose of some of the hope which they purchase and do not use for brewing. To support this charge, there must be something so distinctly out of the range of the occupation that it must be otherwise than in the ordinary course of trade. "He did not wonder that the County Court declined to order the prosecution. Upon the facts, as disclosed, there was no case upon which he could ask the Jury to convict. NOT GUILTY .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-828
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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828. WALTER BIRD (23) PLEADED GUILTY to two indictments for forging and uttering two orders for 10l. each, with intent to' defraud.— Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor.— Two Months' Imprisonment.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-829
VerdictsGuilty > unknown
SentencesImprisonment > penal servitude

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829. ARCHER WOODS (35) , Unlawfully obtaining by false pretences of Joseph Sprague and others, a quantity of hay, a bull, some oats, and other goods; also conspiring with Taplow, Raverty, and divers others to obtain goods by false pretences.

MR. BULWER, Q. C., with MR. GILL and MR. MEAD conducted the Prosecution; and MR. RIBTON the Defence.

JOSEPH SPRAGUE . I am a farmer of Okehampton, Devonshire—in February, 1877, I advertised some meadow hay for sale—I received a communication from a person styling himself A. Woods, of 10, Spring Place, Wands worth—I burnt it with a subsequent similar letter on my change of residence—the letter inquired at what price I would deliver it at the station—in consequence of that communication I forwarded to Nine Elms two trucks of hay, about 4 tons 2 cwt.—the price was 22l. 1s.—I wrote to him for a reference, and received this memorandum and enclosure. (Read: Memorandum, February 13th, 1877, from W. Woods, London, to Mr. Joseph Sprague, Okehampton. Sir,—I enclose you memorandum with my name and address received from the bank yesterday. This I trust will be sufficient for you to see that I am well known to the Banking Company.—Yours obediently, A. W.; Birkbeck Bank, 29 and 30, Southampton Buildings, 12th February, 1877. Mr. Archer Woods, Spring Place, Wandsworth Road.) I also received this acceptance. (Read: "Acceptance, 25l. payable seven days after date. Pay to my order, value received, Joseph Sprague, February. 8th, 1877. Payable at the Birkbeck Bank, Southampton Buildings, Chancery Lane.") I consigned some hay to myself at Nine Elms and I came by the train following—I took the acceptance to the Birkbeck Bank, and in consequence of a conversation which I had with a Bank clerk I went to Nine Elms station and stopped the hay—I had previously stopped it for the day—when I sent the hay I believed A. Woods was carrying on a bond fide trade—I did not get any money—I did not part with my hay to the prisoner.

Cross-examied by MR. RIBTON. A man calling himself Woods shook a purse of money in his hand, and said "Here I have got the money to pay you"—I said "That is all I require, hand me the money and the hay is yours, and also this draft that you sent me"—he had said "Give me the draft"—I think he had ten or twelve sovereigns in his hand—I had several other answers to my advertisement from North Devon, Plymouth, and one from Exeter—I only advertised once in a North Devon and once in a Plymouth paper—I did not call at Woods' place because I was informed it

was useless—I agreed to sell him the whole stack of hay—I sold the hay afterwards in Nine Elms yard, and never removed it—I sold it for less, and lost money by it, to a Mr. Minns—I was introduced to him—I was paid in the usual way by the company.

Re-examined. I made several inquiries about the prisoner.

By the COURT. I cannot swear it was the prisoner who shook the money in his hand.

RICHARD LINNELL . I reside at Moreton Pinkney, Byfield, Northampton—last December I advertised a short-horned pedigree bull for sale in the Northampton Herald—I received a reply on a printed heading like this—I wrote to the address given, and received other letters with the same printed heading—in result I sent my bull to Nine Elms or Vauxhall—the price was 12 guineas—I received no money, and in consequence came to London Terrace, Nine Elms—I there saw a man I believe to be the prisoner—I was in his presence a very few minutes—I said "Mr. Woods, I sent a bull to your order a short time back, for which I have not received the money"—he said "Yes, he was not what he was represented"—I said "How was he represented?"—he said "Not what he is"—I repeated that question, and he repeated the answer—I said "You won't pay for him?"—he said "I won't pay for him, what do you mean?"—I have never been paid—I have not got my bull back—I do not know what has become of him—I went to the police-court and to the County Court, and the matter came under the reporters' notice—I sent my bull because I expected to get paid—I was influenced by the business address.

Cross-examined. I cannot say what I should have done if I had received the order for my bull on a plain sheet of paper—I made inquiries—I went to London Terrace—there was a shop, but not much in it—the bull was 10 months old—I described him in the advertisement as a young pedigree short-horned bull, 10 months old—I am not sure as to a word. (Advertisement read: "A short-horned pedigree bull about 10 months old for sale by private contract. Apply R. Linnell, Moreton Pinkney, Byfield.) The advertisement appeared several weeks—I did not advertise the pedigree—I sent the pedigree before I sent the bull to the printed address on Wood's letters—this is it: he was by a bull called Kirk, grandsire Prince of Fausley. and great grandsire Earl of Windsor; I have not the herd-book numbers—I was not offered 10 guineas, nor anything else.

HENRY GAMBLE . I am a farmer, at Grimston, in Norfolk—in February last I advertised some hay for sale in a Manchester newspaper—I received a letter signed A. Woods, with a printed heading like that—(This was, "Nine Elms Goods Station, Stores London Terrace, A. Woods (late Coleman), Corn, Seed, and Flour Merchant; Contracts entered into for Hay and Straw")—I also received a further letter, in consequence of which I sent three tons of hay to the order of Woods at Nine Elms station—the value of the hay was 14l. 5s.—I have lost the letters I received—that hay was paid for by cheque for 14l. 5s. inclosed in this letter of 25th February—in consequence of this further order I sent two trucks of clover hay and a truck of meadow hay, value 21l. 5s., to Nine Elms Station to the order of A. Woods—I received an acceptance for 40l.—I sent the acceptance to my brother in London, who presented it to Woods and asked for the money—I received a further order, with the acceptance to the value of 40l., which I did not execute in consequence of what I heard from my brother—when I sent

the hay I believed Woods was carrying on the business described on the printed heading, and he stated in one letter he could do six trucks a week—I was influenced by the printed address.

Cross-examined. The cheque sent me was upon the Birkbeck Bank—I paid it into my own bank, and it was duly honoured—the first lot being paid for strengthened my belief in the man who paid it.

ROBERT GAMBLE . I live at 1, Osborne Road, Wood Grange Road, Forest Gate, and am the brother of the last witness—early this year I received from him an acceptance for 40l.—I went to the Birkbeck Bank, and had a conversation with the manager—in result I sent the bill to my solicitor instructing him to return it to Woods—I went to 7, London Terrace, nearly a dozen times to try to see Woods—I did not see him once—I saw inside the shop—there were no sign of business—there was a little corn in the window, half a truss of hay, and a truss of straw—I saw the nurse; she said the wife was upstairs—the shop was about 12 or 14 feet square—I went there at different hours, the first time at 10 a.m., and then earlier to try to catch him—I was never successful.

FREDERICK MORLEY HILL . I am accountant at the Birkbeck Bank—Archer Woods has had an account there many years, and has still a balance of 1l. 6s. 6d.—this memorandum is a heading, cut from a letter on the bank headed paper sent to Mr. A. Woods—this is the press copy from the letterbook, of the whole letter: "12th February, 1877, Mr. Archer Woods, Spring Place, Wands worth Road. Dear Sir,—I beg to explain that your cheque for 14l. 10s. was returned in consequence of your balance being insufficient to meet it at the time of presentation, your balance being but 11l. 15s. 2d. Faithfully yours, Francis Ravenscroft, Manager." The prisoner's balance has been rather low lately, but he has done a good business with us.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. I have not the bank-book here containing the prisoner's account—I believe it commenced in 1872—we do not allow overdrafts as a rule—I cannot give you the amount the prisoner commenced with, nor what his average balance was—he has a pass-book—I was not told to bring it—the account has been bond fide until recently—our letter refers to a cheque which was dishonoured—he has paid money in since February 12.

Re-examined. I remember the acceptance for 40l. being brought to the bank and being returned—I cannot tell you when it was except from the acceptance itself, which would show it as well as the date—we generally adhere to the rule not to pay unless there is sufficient to the person's credit.

THOMAS LLOYD . I am a farmer, of Lion's Hall, Kington, in Hertfordshire—in January last I advertised in the Hertford Times some hay for sale—I received a reply with a printed heading from A. Woods, of Nine Elms, asking the price, and in answer to my reply I received another letter, in consequence of which I sent 1 ton 11 cwt. up to Nine Elms—the value of it was 7l. 15s.—I afterwards received a bill for 30l., dated February 5th—I also received a further order, which I did not execute—I took the acceptance to my banker and left him to make inquiries—I never got any money—I sent no more hay—I put the matter in my solicitor's hands at Kington—I was influenced by the business heading—I thought I was dealing with a tidy man.

Cross-examined. The prisoner promised me a cheque, but he never sent

it—my bank is the Midland Banking Company—they held the bill till it became due.

CHARLES HENRY FLACK . I am a bailiff employed by Mr. Edward Gibbs—in January last I advertised for Mr. Gibbs some oats for sale—I received a letter asking the price, signed A. W.—I replied and received this letter, dated 25th January. (This ordered 5 quarters of oats and promised a remittance.) I then sent 5 quarters of oats, to the, value of 10l.—I was never paid for them—I came up to London and went to London Terrace—I tried, but was not successful in finding Woods—I saw a woman there—I put the matter in my solicitor's hands, but with no result—I sent the oats because I thought it was a genuine firm as described on the top of the bill.

Cross-examined. A woman said the prisoner would send me some beans or feeding stuff in payment; but he never sent any—Mr. Gibbs applied in writing about it—that was not the reason given for not sending the stuff—it was put in Messrs. Grant and Co.'s, the solicitors, hands afterwards—we never declined to receive anything.

THOMAS DOMINIE GRANT . I am one of the firm of Messrs. Grant, Moseley, and Stephenson—Mr. Gibbs's matter with reference to five quarters of oats was put into our hands, in consequence of which I went to 7, London Terrace to see Woods, to serve him with a County Court plaint—the first time I did not see him—the next time I saw a man whom I believe to be Woods—he said he was an intimate friend of Woods—I said "I cannot tell you my business, it is private"—he said, no matter how private my business was, he could transact it—he would make no appointment with me—I left the plaint with the wife—I got no money—I called there shortly afterwards, but the place was shut up.

Cross-examined. It was the 16th or 17th April when I called—the matter had been in our hands about a week previously.

CHARLES HENRY FLACK . (Re-examined.) These two letters are in Mr. Gibbs's writing. (One letter, dated March 2,878, applied to the prisoner for beans or feeding stuff in payment for the oats; the other, dated February 16,1878, acknowledged receipt of bill of exchange, and asked for a draft to be sent before sending the last ten quarters of oats.)

MARY POWELL . I am a widow, of 5, Spring Place, Wands worth—next door to No. 10, the prisoner's residence in September, 1876—the name "Woods" was outside, and afterwards Thompson—Woods was painted out, then Thompson was painted out—the inmates consisted of Woods, his wife and child, and a brother called William—flour, corn, straw, live geese, and two horses were taken in—some were sold in the shop and some taken away—the horses were used there—a Mr. Tapp came in the morning and went away in the evening—he appeared to do the writing—he was never behind the counter.

Cross-examined. I used to buy my bread there, which he sold at 4 3/4d. when bread was 6 1/2d., and sometimes at 5d.—he lived at No. 15 about four or five months, and about twelve months at No. 10—he left No. 15 because his landlord objected to his selling bread.

EDWARD HEWLETT . I am an inspector of police on the South Western Railway at Nine Elms—I know the prisoner as living at Nine Elms Lane, London Terrace; it is about a quarter of a mile from the station—I also know him as living at 10, Spring Place, Wands worth Road—I have been to both

places with gentlemen to make inquiries—I never succeeded in finding him—I have stopped goods—these visits to the prisoner's place continued for about eighteen months, and were in consequence of letters and other complaints which I received.

JOHN HENRY WHITE . I am landlord of 10, Spring Place, Wandsworth Road—at Michaelmas, 1876, I let these premises to the prisoner at a rental of 36l. a year—he remained till Michaelmas, 1877—he paid three quarters, rent—I had to distrain—the last quarter I found he had gone.

ISAAC SHEPHERD . I live at Lambeth Walk, and am agent to the freeholder of No. 7, London Terrace, Nine Elms—in December, 1875, I let that house to the prisoner at 30l. per annum for three years—I distrained three times for rent—I have taken possession under a clause in the agreement—I saw a man called Tapp there, also the prisoner's brother.

THOMAS ROOTS (Police Inspector). On the night of 17th June I went with Inspector Morgan, and Robson, to Chapel Street, Islington, to apprehend a man named Raverty—I found him in company with the prisoner, and a man named Cross—I took them all, to Scotland Yard—I told the prisoner the charges—he said "I know nothing at all about them, you can't prove it, and you cannot bring any one who can; I have receipts for all I have had, and the solicitor has told me that you cannot touch me; I suppose you would not give me more than ten years"—he said something else, but not referring to the present charges.

DANIEL MORGAN (Police Inspector). I was present when the prisoner was apprehended on 17th June with two others—I have known the prisoner for three years, at 15 and at 10, Spring Place, and then at 7, London Terrace—the man named Taplow was with him at all those places—I saw him at 15 and at 10, Spring Place, but never at 7, London Terrace—I have said March, but on referring to my diary I find I should have said that in May, 1876, I went to see the prisoner at 15, Spring Place, in consequence of some complaints—I saw the prisoner and the man commonly called Tapp, but whose name is Taplow, and Raverty in the shop together—I told Woods I had received complaints of his having received goods and not paying for them—he said "We are honest traders; you have no business to come and interfere with us in this way"—I pointed to Taplow, and said "That man has only recently come out of prison, after undergoing a term of five years' penal servitude for fraud"—that is a fact—I also pointed to Raverty and said" That man also has suffered nine months' imprisonment for a loan office swindle," which is a fact, and I said" You also have not been long out of prison for another offence"—he said "It will take you all your time to make a charge of it with me; I will pay and owe"—I said if ever I did charge him, as I hoped to do some time, I should certainly mention that to the Magistrate, and he said "You can do as you like"—I called frequently afterwards and saw Taplow and Raverty at 10, Spring Place—on 13th November, 1876, I told Woods I had received a complaint that he had obtained a pony from Lieutenant Curwen, at Colchester, and had not paid for it—he made no answer to that—a conversation ensued, and he said "I will pay a little off each case, and you can only then make a debt of it"—I then mentioned to him the names of persons I had arrested for similar frauds, and who had been convicted, and that if he was arrested that defence would not avail him—I know Taplow's writing—except one document which I have some doubt about all these

papers are Taplow's writing—I have not arrested Taplow—I took Raverty to the North of Ireland—he was sentenced to five years' penal servitude.

Witnesses for the Defence.

GODFREY GARDNER . I am a moulder of brass at Messrs. Mereweather's—I have known Woods eight months—in 1877 I worked for him in Spring Place, Wandsworth Road, as assistant behind the counter for four months—we did a good trade—we sold bread, flour, and "such on"—I cannot tell you the turnover—we baked at Price's—I cannot tell you how much.

Cross-examined. I do not know of any dummy lockers—we never sold bread 2d. cheaper than other bakers—Mr. Mumford supplied our flour—I don't know Mr. Craig. Bakers might sell for less at a profit.

WILLIAM CHARLES SIBLEY . I am a master baker in Wandsworth Road—I have known the prisoner two years—I supplied him with bread and flour at 15, Spring Place—I put in an execution for 7l. 6s.—I received about 150l. from him in all—I used to be paid weekly from 5l. to 13l. for second-class bread, &c.—I have been 12 years in my present shop, and 19 years my own master, I always paid 20s. in the pound, and have sold bread 1d. cheaper than the usual price—the Bakers' Society bought the premises, and ejected the prisoner from No, 10 for selling his bread too cheap.

Cross-examined. I served him at Nine Elms—I did not know he carried on business at two places at the same time—I do not know Raverty or Taplow—I have seen a Mr. Tapp in the shop—I bought 20 goslings of him—he said he had them from the country—they would not get fat—I never complained to the police about him.

ANN NICHOLLS . I dealt with the prisoner at his shop in Spring Place in 1877, for about nine months—he seemed to carry on a regular business—I bought good bread of him at 6d. and 6 1/2d., to the amount of 5s. or 6s. a week.

Cross-examined. I know nothing about his having a shop at London Terrace—he generally sold a halfpenny cheaper than other bakers—I have seen other people buy there.

THOMAS BUNKER . I am a corn-dealer, of 264, Wandsworth Road—I do not know the prisoner as Woods—I have dealt with him for two years—I have bought chaff, flour, and oats of him for ready money—I cannot say what he paid me, as sometimes my shopman served him, but should say about 20l. in all, not 50l.—he once paid me 3l. 7s., but never as much as a cheque for 8l. at once—I had only one cheque from him.

Cross-examined. I do not know the prisoner's name—the man who represented himself as Woods at my shop was a grey-headed man, with a grey moustache and no whiskers—I do not know Taplow—if I have described Taplow, then I dealt with Taplow mostly—the cheque I received was on the London Commercial Bank—it was sent by my carman, I don't know who gave it.

Witnesses in Reply.

DANIEL MORGAN (Re-examined). The last witness has described Taplow, who is about 60 years of age—I have heard Gardner's evidence about the shop—I have been to all three shops—on one occasion Taplow and Raverty threatened to kick me out of the shop because I examined the bins for keeping horses' fodder, corn, &c., in—they were dummies, and had a false top, so that they appeared to have a good stock, but there was only a little on the top—there was not 10s. worth of stock at 7, London Terrace.

GUILTY . Inspector Morgan stated that the Long Firm swindlers had found

a ready market at the prisoner's shop, who in one case had obtained 370lbs. of flour and ruined a man named Hall.— Five Years' Penal Servitude .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-830
VerdictsNot Guilty > unknown; Not Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentencesImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

830. RICHARD GOODY (61), HENRY DAY (29), and EDWARD WILLIAM BARNES (48) , Unlawfully obtaining goods by false pretences, also for conspiracy.

MESSRS. BULWER, Q. C., GILL, and MEAD, conducted the Prosecution; MR. PURCELL defended Goody, and MR. HORACE AVORY defended Day. ROBERT MATTHESON. I am chief warder of Newgate—George Frederick White was confined in Newgate, having been committed to take his trial last Session for misdemeanours—he died on 14th August.

GEORGE MOON . I am a hay merchant, of Goosey, near Farringdon, in Berkshire—in November, 1875, I advertised some barley straw for sale—I shortly afterwards received these letters, in consequence of which I sent two trucks of straw to Paddington, valued 8l. 8s. 3d., for which a man named May was convicted—about the same time I received two letters on a printed heading from "W. B. Ward, 2, Brook's Market; coal at wharf prices in sacks to any railway station; goods removed by spring vans," in consequence of which I sent two trucks of straw, value 7l. 5s. 6d.—I wrote requesting payment, and received, replies signed" W. G. Ward, pro J. H., "stating hay was received, but family bereavement had caused Mr. Ward's absence, and asking whether I could supply two tracks weekly, and promising draft—I also received a bill dated 8th December at 14 days—it was presented through my bankers and returned dishonoured—I wrote complaining of that and received on 18th January, 1876, a reply, asking me to let the account stand over, as Mr. Ward had been suffering from bronchitis—I then went to 2, Brook's Market—I saw Goody I said "Is Mr. Ward in?"—he said "No, he is in the market; you can call again about 4 o'clock, and he will be in then"—I called about 4 o'clock—I saw Barnes—I said" Is your name Ward?"—he said "No; Mr. Ward is not in; any commands you have for Mr. Ward I will tell him"—I said I would call again, for I wanted to see him particularly, that I had called about an account for straw, and asked him to tell Ward—I said my name was Moon, and gave my address—I then went to Mr. Bennett, a solicitor, about it, but nothing was done—I have not got my money—I was induced by the business memorandum to send the straw, as I thought I was dealing with a respectable man—on 18th December, 1875, I received a letter from Day, in consequence of which I sent price-list—I then received a telegram, in consequence of which I sent three trucks of straw to Paddington, value 12l. 1s. 3d.—I was influenced in the same way by the memorandum, and I had not then found out the fraud—on finding I had been defrauded, I came to London and stopped the straw at Paddington station—I afterwards received a similar application from a Mr. Stone, and another from a Mr. Johnson, which I paid no attention to.

Cross-examined by Barnes. When I called, a female opened the door, and you came directly (the prisoner Barnes here said, "I admit myself to be Ward")—I cannot say whether you got off your van to some to me—you stood at your door—I inquired of the railway authorities about the straw, and having consigned it, I had to indemnify them before I could stop it.

DANIEL MORGAN (Police Inspector). These memoranda on the printed

heading, "Richard May, baker and corndealer, 1, Guildford Street, "are in the handwriting of George White, who is dead—from comparison of documents handed to another officer and myself, which Barnes admitted to be in his writing, I know Barnes's writing—these papers purporting to come from Ward are in Barnes's writing—those from "J. H. Day Snow's Fields," are the writing of a man named Humphreys, who was convicted for frauds at 21, John Street, and 18 other London addresses (Barnes here said, "I do not dispute the handwriting").

ELIZABETH LEPERE . I am the wife of John Lepere—I lived at 2, Brook's Market, Holborn—I know Goody and Barnes, I came to the house when they were there—I have also seen White there—Barnes lived there—they use to come and go at all hours of the day, frequently—Barnes occupied a shop and parlour on the ground-floor—I have seen sacks of potatoes there—goods used to be brought, and were taken away again mostly of an evening—the windows of the shop were whitened, so that you could not see in from the outside—there was also a side-door, which opened into a passage—the goods went out there sometimes; they came in at the front—I never saw anything sold there—many people called, more since they went than when they were there, country people; one was like a farmer—the prisoners went away suddenly.

Cross-examined by MR. PURCELL. It was 1875 when I saw Goody there many times in two or three weeks—I had not seen him before, nor after he left, till he was taken.

Cross-examined by Barnes. I came about three or four weeks before you left; it was in the winter time—I don't know whether I ever spoke to you—I had previously lived in the country—I bought a turkey for 1s. 6d. of a female who was staying there—a man named Walter Brandon was with you when you left—I have seen you dress differently—I have seen you go out without whiskers and come back with black ones—you had live pheasants in the shop—Morgan did not show you to me.

JAMES INGRAM (Cross-examined by Barnes). You took a shop of my mother in Brook's Market—I did not know you as living next door to Mr. Rose, a coal dealer—I know Mr. Rose and Mr Gwynne, but do not know that you worked for them—my mother did not buy coals at your shop; it was never open—I did not know what your trade was; if I had I would have stopped it long ago—you left on 23rd March, 1876, in arrears—I never helped you to load coals; I never helped anybody, it is too bard work for me.

JOSEPH FREDERICK BROAD . I live in Upper Greenwich Road, Bermondsey—by direction of Mr. Scott, the landlord, in December, 1875, I went to 23, Snow's Fields, which had been let to a man named May in March, 1875—in November, 1875, May's name was erased and Day's name put there—I put the brokers in for 13l. rent—the shop was filled with dummies—I have seen other people go there at all hours of the day, but mostly in the evening—there was no sign of any real business—I told Day that I had brought a broker for the rent—he was lying on a bed on the floor, and I told him there was a policeman outside who had been looking and watching the house—he asked me to give him till the morrow, and he would see May and try to get the rent—I told the broker to leave a man in possession, which he did—I said, "You are all as one" (meaning May and Day and others were all connected)—he said May had

taken him in by letting him the shop—May was the man who was subsequently convicted.

Cross-examined by MR. AVORY. I had frequently gone there—I go to 108 houses—I am certain Day was there—I said at the police-court to the best of my belief he was—I say so now—I was not present at May's trial.

ERNEST JOHN SPARSHOTT . I am manager to my father, who deals in desiccated grain, a kind of cattle fodder—I advertised in a Bristol newspaper in the winter of 1875—in November or December, 1875, I received applications from George Johnson, W. B. Ward, R. May, and H. J. Day—this is one I received from Ward—eventually I supplied Ward with grain, which I sent to Brook's Market; about 12l. worth at a time—the printed bill-heading which I received led me to believe Ward was a bond fide tradesman—I received acceptances—one accepted at 2, Brook's Market, Holborn, London, and another at the Provident Bank, Moorgate Street—they were returned, marked, "No orders; left" and "Premises closed"—I never got paid—I supplied May with 21l. worth of grain to No. 1, Guildford Street, Walworth, and Johnson 60l. worth—I lost both amounts—when Ward applied I asked for a reference, and received one from Messrs. Hellier, of 66, Leadenhall Street, vouching for Ward's respectability—this is the letter I received from that firm. (This stated Messrs. Hellier would have no hesitation in crediting Ward with 50l. at any time.)

Cross-examined by Barnes. You complained of the train—I do not remember my reply—I believe I did not state they should not turn sour again.

DANIEL MORGAN (Re-examined). I apprehended Barnes and Goody—Roots apprehended Day, on a warrant granted at Lambeth Police Court on 27th April, 1876, on the sworn information of Mr. Woods, of Southampton, relating to some sacks—Goody was at 74, Leadenhall Street, Somers Town—Mr. Woods could not be found to prosecute, and his charges were not proceeded with—I told Goody I was a police-officer, and that he would be charged with being concerned with William Barnes, Henry Day and others in obtaining goods by false pretences—he said he knew nothing about it—the addresses I mentioned were 2, Brook's Market; 8, Castle Road, Kentish Town; 109, Great Saffron Hill; 25, Eagle Street, City Road—Goody denied being at Brook's Market, or Castle Road—I said "I have seen you there myself"; then he said he was only a paid servant, and knew nothing about their business—I went to Day's address, Snow's Fields, Bermondsey, in October or November, 1875, in consequence of a complaint of a carriage having been obtained from Brighton by false pretences—I saw Day there—I went afterwards when the warrant was issued, but Day was gone—I apprehended Barnes on 5th June, 1876, at 34, Radnor Street, St. Luke's, in bed at 1 a.m.—I told him I was a police officer, and that he would be arrested for obtaining goods by false pretences from various persons—I mentioned the charges which are being tried to-day, and the addresses as well as persons concerned in the frauds, some of whom had been convicted—he said he had never been to the addresses I mentioned, and had never passed in the name of Ward—I said, "I understand that Goody has been employed at Brook's Market"—I mentioned Stone's name—Stone's socalled firm was carried on by White, who is dead, And Cross, who is

undergoing penal servitude—Hellier of Basinghal I Street was a German swindler—his last address was at Red Lion Market, where he was swindling with Barnes—I don't know where he is.

Cross-examined by MR. PURCELL. I told Goody that I had seen him at Castle Road, Kentish Town—I had not seen him at Brook's Market—I saw him at Castle Road twice, I did pot speak to him then—I only know from what he told me that he was a baker—I have heard of him as being connected with Barnes, in fact he kept his shop in Eagle Street for a long time—I have not heard that Goody was working with Mr. Headman as a journeyman baker from Michaelmas, 1875, to May, 1876, and to Christmas, 1876, with a Mr. Tilbury, and from Christmas, 1876, to Christmas, 1877, with Mr. Hanning—I never heard the names of his employers.

Cross-examined by MR. AVORY. The warrant included Day and his brother—I was with Roots when he was arrested at Mr. Perry's stables—May's trial took place in May, 1876.

Cross-examined by Barnes. When I apprehended you, you said yon had an appointment with your employer, and I asked you who he was, and if you could give me the name of any one who had employed you for years past, but you declined—I said I should apply to him as to your character—Inspector Robson took possession of your receipts—we took some memorandum books with copies of advertisements—I saw the name, "Mandeau"—I had to read the warrant over three times, and to send for a police-sergeant to get you out of the house, you were so violent—I am not aware of any orders for removal being found in the books taken at your house.

THOMAS ROOTS (Detective Police Inspector). I have compared the documents purporting to be written by W. B. Ward with others known to be in Barnes's writing—they are alike—I apprehended Day at Perry's stable yard in Leather Lane, Holborn, upon a warrant charging him with obtaining from Mr. Woods of Southampton a number of sacks—I told him those sacks were obtained at 23, Snow's Fields—he said "23 Snow's Fields was established by old Dick May 12 months before I went there, Humphreys and Billy Barnes did the writing and have let me in for this, I had nothing out of the John Street affair"—I had mentioned 21, John Street, Smithfield—" I once took away some pigs for Humphreys, but he gave me nothing out of it; if it had not been for such men as Humphreys, White, and Barnes, I could not have done these things, as I cannot write; I have been going straight for the last 15 months. "The John Street business was carried on by Humphreys and Houghton—Humphreys has been convicted—on one occasion I went to 21, John Street in February, 1876—I saw Day there and I spoke to Mary Robson, who has been convicted in this Court—I told Day on his entering the shop that a friend of mine had been defrauded in Wales of some pinks, and Day said that he had been defrauded also—I said "Give me your name and address and we will co-operate together to prosecute these fellows"—he said "I cannot do that"—I went away—I watched the shop during that day and night—I saw Day going backwards and forwards to the shop during the evening—when I took him into custody I alluded to the conversation at this interview—I said "Do you remember meeting me at John Street just before Humphreys was arrested when you represented that you had been defrauded?"—he said "I do not," and smiled.

Cross-examined by MR. AVORY. On. making inquiries I find Day under estimated when he said he had been going straight for the last 15 months—I find that for two years he had been employed by Perry—he has actually been employed since March, 1876—I did not call at Perry's the morning I arrested him—I was afraid to call too much—I called in the evening and found him in the stables.

GEORGE ROBSON (Police Inspector). I searched Barnes's house—I found two directories—one of them is marked near butchers', fisl mongers', grocers' and other tradesmen's names of that class—I have some of the advertisements found copied in my note-book relating to potatoes, milk, etc., also the names of advertisers in various parts of the country.

Cross-examined by Barnes. I could not inquire of your employers as to your character, you declined to give any employers' names—you said you would produce witnesses on your trial to prove that you were a respectable tradesman—these papers were not found in your pocket, but at your house, lying on a chest of drawers.

Re-examined. I do not know whether the papers have his employers' names on or not—I only found two billheads.

Witness for Goody. ROBERT MASON. I am a clothier, of 16, Mount Pleasant, Clerken well—I have known Goody twenty years, for six or seven as a master baker, before that as a journeyman—he lived at Alderman's Street, Somers Town, about six years—I know nothing against him—I am not related to him.

Cross-examined. I lived about a mile off—I met him once in six or seven months—I know Brook's Market—I do not know Ward, Barnes, Diek, May, Johnson, nor that Goody was employed by Barnes.

Witness for Day.

JAMES PERRY . I am a greengrocer and carman, of 10, Charles Street, Leather Lane, Holborn—I employed May continually from March, 1876 till he was taken into custody, as carman—I tried the man by sending him with my bills, large and small, and entrusting him with money, and found him honest—I never heard anything against his character.

Cross-examined. I used to call him "Ted," I don't know why, I think he said "Ted" when I asked him his Christian name—I employed him as extra man and then regularly—I knew nothing of him previously.

Barnes read a long statement in which he said his mother's name was Ward, and he assumed that name to keep the business connection; that the Clarendon Bank failed, and he lost £55, and other difficulties occurring at the same time, he sold his van and went into the employment of a person mentioned in the billheads which the police took, where he remained till he was arrested, and that he never saw Goody.


The COURT expressed its approval of the conduct of the polios in tracing out these numerous frauds.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-831
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

831. FREDERICK JOHNSON (39) , Stealing 1, 170 yards of silk and 15 yards of rep, the property of Joseph Spiers.

MR. MEAD conducted the Prosecution; and MR. BESLEY the Defence.

CHARLES EDWARD FORTUNE, ALEXANDER OUSEY , and RICHARD KIMBER repeated their former evidence (see Case of HARRIS and ALLEN, vol. 86, part 515, page 527).

ROBERT PENNER (Police Officer M). On 18th June last year I went with Kimber to Johnson's Place in Shad well—it is a sailor's boarding-house, and Johnson is a clothier—Kimber told him he had a warrant—he took him upstairs while I remained in the shop—I heard Johnson say that he had bought the silk of a man named Allen—he did not know Allen's address, but he could go and show where he lived—this receipt was produced for 29l.—I went to Allen's house, 101, John Street Road, Clerkenwell—I saw him in a front kitchen—Johnson was present—Kimber asked Allen if he had had any transaction with Johnson—there was a dispute in the kitchen—Johnson said "That is the man I bought the silk of"—Kimber produced the receipt—Allen said he did hot write it—Johnson said, "If you did not write it you saw it was written "—the place was searched—some silk rep was found, and identified by Mr. Ousey, and Allen and Johnson were taken into custody.

Cross-examined. Harris produced this receipt from Johnson—"Bought of F. Johnson, 1160 yards of silk at 10d. a yard, 48l. 6s. 8d. Received by cheque and counter account"—the dispute was about whether Allen's receipt was for 27l. or 29l.—Allen said he had bought some ribbon off an old woman with a barrow, and the silk at a public-house—he was unable to show us the house.

WALTER SIMON ANDREWS (Police Inspector). In June last I saw the prisoner at Dunquerque—I reported the matter, and extradition proceedings were taken, and a warrant was issued for his apprehension in France—I received him in my custody on 3rd August—I saw him in the prison, and in the presence of the French police I told him who I was, and said, "I understand that a warrant has been granted against you, and your extradition has been granted by the Government. You will be charged with stealing and receiving 1160 yards of silk, the property of Mr. Spiers, of the Borough. I believe you are the person who was indicted with Allen and the two Harrises last year, and you absconded"—he said "Yes, I did abscond; the indictment was found against me, and I had the silk. I bought the silk from Allen. There was a man named Mordecai very much mixed up in the matter, and I think he ought to be arrested"—I said "I may tell you that Mordecai is arrested, and is now in custody at the Southwark Police-court"—he said he was very glad to hear that, and "I am very sorry now that I ran away; I suppose I must have been a fool"—he said Mordecai introduced Allen to him—on the vessel on the journey he said, "I wish to have a conversation with you about my case"—I said "Very well, as you please"—he said "I am not a German, as has been stated; I am a Dane; I used to keep a boarding-house in St. George's-in-the-East, and I bought that silk of a man. I think I paid him 10d. a yard. I think Kimber has the receipt. I never knew that it had actually been stolen, but I knew that it was the property of Mr. Spiers. I stopped at the Old Bailey till the Thursday to take my trial with the others; I then got frightened; I thought I was going to get ten years, the same as"—some other person, I forget the name, but it was a man who was convicted at that Sessions—"and I thought I had better run away"—he also related how he got to Dunquerque.

Cross-examined. I heard he was at Dunquerque four or five months before I went there—he refused to come to England—that was before the present

extradition treaty came into force—I have heard since I had him in custody that he was pressed by his creditors—Mordecai was discharged—the prisoner did not say he was so ignorant of the value of silk that he had to ask the value of it—I understood him to mean that he knew the silk was Mr. Spiers's property at the time the trial was about to take place.

Witnesses for the Defence.

LOUIS JOSEPHS . I am a cigar manufacturer of 27, Mint Street, Whitechapel—I worked for Joseph Mordecai's sons for three years, who carried on business at 210, Whitechapel Road—I introduced Mordecai to Johnson about the commencement of the summer of 1877—I had bought a pair of boots of Johnson, and I showed them to Mordecai, who said, "They are very good, who has got them to sell?" and I told him, and I took him to Johnson—Mordecai said, "Louis, do you know who would buy any silk?"—I said, "Perhaps the man you are going to to look at the boots might buy it"—Johnson then had an outfitting shop—the boots would not suit Mordecai—I said to Johnson, "Mordecai has got some silk for sale, could you do with it?"—Johnson said, "Yes, if it is reasonable"—Mordecai showed him the samples, and he made an appointment to meet next morning at 10, St. John Street Road, Clerkenwell—Johnson did not say anything about referring to another person to know the value—Mordecai appointed to meet Johnson at a public-house to take him to look at the silk—we ultimately met at 101, John Street—Allen there produced some silk, and asked Johnson to buy it—Johnson said the price was too high—I do not know what the price was—this was about 11 a.m.—when Johnson and I were waiting at the public-house in St. John Street Road two big men came up, and one said, "Are you, waiting I or a tall man that Sella old clothes?"—we said, "Yes "—he said, "I am the party who has got that silk for sale", so Johnson walked with him, and I was driving a pony—I went into the house—Johnson, offered some price and Allen said he wanted £6 more, and drove away—Johnson left his card, and said, "If you want my money you can fetch it"—I have known Johnson as long as I remember—he had an outfitting business and bore a good character.

Cross-examined. Mordecai is a dealer in old clothes—I did not know Allen's name when I went to his house, nor till he was in custody—Mordecai did not mention his name.

JOSEPH COHEN . I am a clothier and general dealer of 135, Leman Street—I went to Johnson's shop with an account—Mr. Joseph came in, and I waited till he had done with Johnson—when Joseph had gone out I saw three patterns of silk—Johnson said, "What would you value these silks at?"—I said "The crimson is the most valuable, they are not silks, they are sarcenets, the outside value would be 10d. a yard", and that the two White ones were only fit for cap linings.

Cross-examined. The width would be 27 inches—the pattern would not show the width—ordinary sarcenets are 25 or 27 inches wide, and some are double that—I valued them at ordinary width—the white ones were unsaleable, the crimson ones are used for cap linings—I attend sales, and sarcenets are put in with other silks, and I have some trouble to dispose of them.

LEWIS HARRIS repeated his former evidence. (See Vol. 86, part 515, p.

PETHER JOHN (Policeman H 21). My duty is in St. George's-in-the-East—on

the Sunday morning previous to his apprehension I spoke to Johnson about leaving his wagon out, and told him he ought to be more cautious, as he had been summoned and convicted for it—he said, "I am not always at home; I leave it to my servants, and get my living in other ways besides keeping a boarding-house, the other day I bought a lot of silk".

SAMUEL SKINNER (Policeman RR 13). I have known the prisoner seven or eight years—he kept a boarding-house—he mentioned to me that he had bought some silk on the day he was apprehended—that was before I heard of any one being apprehended on this charge—it was through his cart standing in the street.

HENRY BEALING (Policeman AR 356). I was in the H Division—Johnson mentioned to me twice that he had bought a lot of silk—once, when I was with Skinner and the other sergeant, about 8 a.m. on the Sunday, and again just before he was taken into custody.

FREDERICK FENINGO . I am a tailor and outfitter, of 201, St. George's Street—Johnson was in money difficulties when he left England—he was always in communication with me—he said he would come back if Mordecai and the other man were found—I was one of the bail—the sergeant took Harris, and immediately went to Johnson—I had to wait at the corner.

RICHARD KIMBER (Re-examined by the COURT). These are patterns of all the silks—they have not been out of my custody since the last trial.


16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-832
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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832. FRANCIS EVERINGTON (21) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of Devon Astle, and stealing three coats and other goods, his property.

MR. COOK conducted the Prosecution.

MARK TIMBS (Policeman P 314). About 4 a.m. on 9th August I was on duty in the neighbourhood of Denmark Hill—I saw the prisoner and another man come out of the mews near St. Matthew's Church—I followed them through a passage into Cold Harbour Lane—I saw 281 P, and told him what I had seen—we both followed them into the Wellington Road—he prisoner threw something from his pocket into a garden in the Wellington Road—we chased them to Brixton—I tried to catch the other man and lost him—I saw the prisoner talking to 281 P near the London, Chatham and Dover Railway arches at Brixton—I went to them—we brought the prisoner back to the Wellington Road—I went into the garden of No, 14, where I had seen him throw something—I found these four teaspoons and a pair of sugar-tongs in a bush—I told the prisoner I had seen him throw something away—he said he had not, but that he was running with the police to try to catch the other man—181 P took him to the station.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I did not pass you, unless it was when you dodged me under the arches—a third policeman came up afterwards.

GEORGE GILLIES (Policeman P 281). I met the last witness—we followed the prisoner and another man not in custody into the Wellington Road—I saw the prisoner throw these articles into a garden in the Wellington Road—he dodged through the railway arches, and as I said to a lamplighter, "Where are they going?" the prisoner, whom I did not know as he stood, and I could not see his lameness, said "To the left"—I afterwards caught him—his trousers pocket was turned inside out on the same side as

he threw the spoons—he had this coat on and this pouch, gloves, and handkerchief in his pocket—I afterwards went to 160, Denmark Hill and examined the premises—I found the back drawing-room door and window open-near the spot I found this knife—I tried it in the window and found it would throw the catch back easily—on the lawn I found this croquet mallet and a ladder—the prosecutors identified the coat—the prisoner said he had given 6s. for the coat coming down Denmark Hill in the morning—he was sober.

Cross-examined. The other man ran ahead of you in the road, and you were on the pavement—when I caught you I said "What are you doing here?"

FREDERICK REDDING . I am a gardener for Mr. James Smith, of Denmark Hill—on Friday, 9th August, a little after 4 a.m. I was going to my work—I have the key of the mews at the back, which runs into the main road—when I went into the mews I saw two men behind the gate—I asked them what business they had there—they said they had been out for a lark in the night—I told them to come out—they went down Denmark Hill towords Cold Harbour Lane—a policeman followed them—there is no outlet at the back of Mr. Astle's garden—any one getting there from the mews would have to cross a field and get over several field gates—the shorter man was lame—the other had tight canvas shoes on.

Re-examined. I don't know you.

WILLIAM HENRY BARFOOT (Police Inspector P). I went and examined Mr. Astle's premises—I found that an entry had been made by the back drawing-room window—I tried the catch with this knife—it threw it back easily—the wire fencing at the bottom of the garden was forced down about a foot out of its ordinary position—there are fields at the back of the mews.

DEVON ASTLE . I live at 160, Denmark Hill—on 8th August I went to bed about 12 p.m.—I had sat up reading after the others had gone to bed—I saw that the house was fastened up—the back drawing-room window was locked—about 6 a.m. on the 9th I was called, and in consequence of what my sister said I got up—I found the rooms had been unlocked and the place ransacked—the back drawing-room window was open—this coat and the other articles are mine—the handkerchief has "D. A.," my initials. on it—they were safe the night before.

JOHN KETTERINGHAM . I am coachman to Mr. William Morgan, who lives close to Mr. Astle's—this mallet was brought to our house on 9th or 10th August—I had not missed it—the family were away—it was kept in a portico at the back of the house—any one can get from my master's house by crossing the fields at the back and through Mr. Drew's—a wall divides the premises fur about 180 yards from the house—this is my master's mallet.

EDMUND NEALE . I am gardener to Mr. Drew, of 164, Denmark Hill, which is next door but one to the prosecutor's house—on 10th August I missed a ladder out of a shed in the garden; I afterwards saw it at Mr. Astle's—I had not lent it nor given it to any one to take away.

Prisoner's Defence. I can account for the coat being in my possession: a man threw it away and I picked it up—I know nothing about the burglary, and was not seen within 100 yards of the house—I had been to the Crystal Palace the previous day with a female, and had been

drinking till very late—I was overcome and fell asleep—I woke up and went on my way home, when I saw the man running—I am only guilty of retaining the coat.

GUILTY .** He also PLEADED GUILTY to a conviction for felony in November, 1877, at Bow Street, in the name of James Foley.— Ten Years' Penal Servitude .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-833
VerdictMiscellaneous > no agreement

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833. HENRY KEEN (30) and JOSEPH THOMAS BEVAN (28) , Stealing 79 quarts of milk, the property of Robert Martin, the master of Keen. Second Count charging Bevan with receiving.

In this case the Jury, being unable to agree, were discharged without returning any verdict, and further trial was postponed until the next Session .

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-834
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

834. SAMUEL STONE (23) , Unlawfully having counterfeit coin in his possession, with intent to utter it.

MR. LLOYD conducted the Prosecution; and MR. M. WILLIAMS the Defence.

JOHN HENRY JONES . I keep the Lord Nelson, Trafalgar Street, Walworth—on 27th July, between 6 and 7 p.m., my daughter showed me a bad florin—I went out, and she pointed out the prisoner and another man together, and when they saw us following them they ran away—Sergeant Brown caught the prisoner when I was within 20 yards of him—I saw him throw something away, and a little boy picked up a florin and gave it to me—I gave it to Sergeant Brown, with one which my daughter had taken.

Cross-examined. The prisoner was captured in South Street, about a quarter of a mile from my house—I ran past the prisoner in Runham Street, and gave chase to the one who had passed the coin, who was 20 or 30 yards in advance of the prisoner—I did not attempt to stop the prisoner at that time; my daughter was also running, and the men were running in front of us; no one followed us—there were not many people about—I was excited when I got out.

SUSAN JONES . I am the daughter of the last witness—I served some man with twopenny worth of gin on 20th July; he gave me a bad florin—I gave it to my father, and when the man saw that he went out—I had given him the change—I went out with my father and saw the prisoner and the man I had seen previously—they turned round, saw us, and ran away—I pointed out to my father the man who had been in the shop—he went alter him, and I saw the prisoner in custody.

Cross-examined. I did not see the prisoner inside the house, only outside.

WILLIAM BROWN (Police Inspector P 40). I was a sergeant at this time—I heard a cry of "Stop thief!" and saw the prisoner running at the top of his speed—I laid hold of him; he drew a paper packet out and threw it on a grating in front of a shop—I heard a chink of coin going through the grating—Mr. Jones gave me a florin which was passed in the house, and afterwards John Brown gave me nine bad florins—I said to the prisoner, "I know now what I have got you for"—he said, "I have done nothing"—I searched him at the station, and found a good half-sovereign, 1l, 1s. 4d. in silver, and 4s. 6 1/2d. in copper, among which was this counterfeit florin (produced).

Cross-examined. I did not say a word about that before the Magistrate,

because I found it since—nine bad coins were picked up in the cellar, and Jones gave me two—no one from the Mint saw the good money before the Magistrate, but the Solicitor to the Treasury was there, who looked at the coins—I looked at it, and it was so good an imitation that I believed it to be good, and marked it A—the prisoner was twice before the Magistrate, and I think it was after the second time that I found it was bad—I should have mentioned it to the Magistrate if it was before that—I have been in the force 17 years—I told the Solicitor of it at the Treasury—this case was postponed from last Session, and it might have been after that that I found it was bad—there was no V on it when I marked it that I could see—I made the A and the bar across all at the same time—it is not Valtered to A.

Re-examined. I mentioned it when I discovered it—it had been in my possession the whole time.

JOHN BROWN . I am a pawnbroker's assistant—on 20th July I was with the last witness in South Street, and saw the prisoner running—when he got to 19, South Street he threw a paper packet away as the sergeant was in the act of closing with him—the paper burst on the grating, and I heard a rattling—I went into the shop, went down into the cellar, and found these nine counterfeit florins, which I picked up and gave to Brown.

Cross-examined. I marked them all at the station with a V—none of them were marked with an A.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am in the employ of the Mint—this coin found among the good silver is bad, and of. 1871—the next is the one uttered by the other man, that is of 1874—these nine florins are bad, four of them are of 1871, and from the same mould as the first, and five are of 1874, from the same mould as the one uttered—the one which was picked up is bad, and is of 1874, from the same mould as the other six.

GUILTY . He was further charged with a conviction of a like offence in January, 1870, to which he PLEADED GUILTY.— Seven Years' Penal Servitude .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-835
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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835. GEORGE WRIGHT (24) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. LLOYD and DE MICHELE conducted the Prosecution.

ANN PANKHURST . I am the wife of John Pankhurst, a pork-butcher—about August 10th the prisoner and another man came in about 9 p.m. for two saveloys and two pence-halfpenny worth of peas-pudding—the prisoner gave me a florin—I gave him the change and then put it in the trier, and found it was bad—I called him back and told him so—he gave me the change, and asked the other man to pay for him—I gave him the florin—I had bent it.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I did not say that I recognised you without having locked at you—I saw you before I went into the witnessbox—I was taken to the station to recognise you—you were not put with other men—I am certain you are the man.

MARY ANN THYNNE . Iam a widow, and keep a tobacconist's shop at 24, Winstanley Road, Battersea—on 10th August, about 11 o'clock, the prisoner and another man came in—the prisoner called for two penny cigars and tendered a florin—I gave him 1s. 10d. change—they had hardly got down the steps before I found it was bad—I followed them, and took hold of them, one with each hand—the other twisted himself away, but I held the prisoner, and took him back to the shop—he said it

was not him, it was the other man—I gave him in charge with the florin.

WILLIAM PENFOLD (Policeman V 145). I took the prisoner in the shop searched him there, and found a bad florin, four new pipes filled with tobacco, a cigar, a knife, and a good sixpence—the pipes were full, but had not been smoked.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This is a bad florin.

The Prisoner in his defence stated that he came home from sea in August, and met a man who offered to treat him, and paid for two cigars with a florin; that while he was lighting one of them, the woman accused him, and the other man escaped; that he never had the florin or the change, and that as to the other case, there was no proof that the money was bad, as it was not produced.

GUILTY . He further PLEADED GUILTY to having been convicted of like offence in December, 1874.— Seven Years' Penal Servitude .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-836
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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836. CHARLES MATTHEWS (34) PLEADED GUILTY ** to burglary in the dwelling-house of William Lambert, and stealing therein a coat and other articles.— Fifteen Months' Imprisonment.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-837
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment

Related Material

837. GEORGE SHEPPARD (35), GEORGE WRIGHT (35), and ELLEN WALTERS (34) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin, to which WRIGHT PLEADED GUILTY .

MR. LLOYD conducted the Prosecution.

ESTHER REYNOLDS . I am the wife of Charles Reynolds, of 181, Peckham Park Road, corn chandler—a little after 10 p.m. on 2l. st August I served Wright with some hemp seed—he tendered me a bad crown—I asked him for a small coin—he made no answer—he took the crown away with him—I know it was bad because I tried it on the counter twice.

ISABELLA HERSEE . I am the wife of Richard Hersee, a grocer, of 4, Clement Place, Lower Park Road, Peckham—about 10 p.m. on 2l. st August I served Wright with a quarter of a pound of cheese, which came to 2 1/2d.—he gave me a crown—I gave him in change two florins, and 6d. in silver and 3 1/2d. in coppers—he went away—I eventually found the coin was bad and gave it to a constable—he gave it me back and I gave it to the inspector at Rodney Road station next morning—I marked it with a star under the eye—this is it.

ELIZA STEVENS . I am the wife of John Stevens, who keeps a ham and beef shop at 586, Old Kent Road—between 9 and 10 p.m. on 21s. t of August I served Wright with two penny saveloys—he tendered a bad crown—I gave it back to him and said I could not take it—he went out, leaving the saveloys, and said he would get change—he did not return—my husband communicated with the police, and I saw him afterwards in custody.

JAMES HERSEE . I am a greengrocer. next door but one to Mrs. Reynolds—about 10 p.m. on 21s. t August Mrs. Reynolds pointed out Wright to me, who was running away on the opposite side—I ran after him and saw him join Sheppard and Walters at the Albion, 200 or 300 yards from my shop—I had seen Sheppard and Walters about ten minutes previously in the Albion, drinking, and Wright went in afterwards, and drank out of a pot and partook of a piece of bread—Wright afterwards walked down Park Road towards the Kent Road, and when he got to the

canal bridge I saw him go into the ham and beef shop in the Old Kent Road (Mrs. Stevens's)—the other two were on the opposite side of the way a little farther on, waiting for Wright—when he came out he accompanied them towards London—not seeing a constable, I spoke to Goddard in Park Road—I spoke to Mrs. Stevens directly Wright came out, and Goddard and I followed them till we came to a constable, who joined us and followed them till we met another constable—I afterwards saw them at the station.

WILLIAM GODDARD . I am a grocer, of 60, Peckham Park Road—at about 10 p.m. on 21s. t August Hersee spoke to me outside my shop, and pointed out the three prisoners—Sheppard was looking in my shop, and Walters and Wright were standing waiting for him—I went in and put on a coat and followed them to the canal bridge—Wright then went into Stevens's shop and the other two crossed the road and waited on the opposite side—Wright came out, walked a little way towards Greenwich, crossed the road, and joined the other two towards London—Hersee spoke to a constable, and we followed them to the Dun Cow, when they crossed Lower Kirksdale Street, and were taken in custody—I saw Wright put his hand in his pocket and drop this crown, which I picked up and marked—I gave it up at the station.

CAROLINE GARNHAM . I am a widow, and keep a dairy at 177, St. George's Road, Camberwell—on 8th August I served Walters with a quarter of a pound of butter—he tendered a crown—I gave her the change—I said "Five-shilling pieces are rather scarce"—she said she had taken it for some work she had taken home—I put it in the till; there were no others there—the same evening I put it into my cashbox, where there was no other—I locked the box and kept the key—the next evening I tried the crown in the tester, found it bad, and my son marked it in my presence—this is it (produced)—I recognise it by the mark, a "K", and the mark of the tester as well—I took it to Rodney Street Policestation.

Cross-examined by Walters. I said when you were committed that my son said on the Friday night that I had taken a bad five-shilling piece.

ANN WILLIAMS . I live at 60, Olney Street, Walworth—my husband is a bookseller in Walworth Road—about 4th August Walters came in for a fourpenny purse and tendered a crown, which I showed to my husband—he bent it in the door, and then marked it with a chisel—he asked her where she got it—she said a man gave it to her—this is it—my husband gave it to the police.

Cross-examined by Walters. We don't keep open on Sunday—I will not swear positively that it was 4th August—it was just before 10 p.m.

By the COURT. I swear it was not on a Sunday—I am certain Walters is the woman—I cannot swear to the day of the month.

LOUISA PURMAN . I live at 67, Rosenbury Road, Peckham, and serve in a cornchandler's shop—about 26th July I served Sheppard with a pint of hemp, which came to 1 1/2d.—he tendered a crown—I gave him the change, and he left—I almost immediately afterwards discovered that it was bad—I went after him but could not see him—I gave the coin to Brett—I had marked it with an M, and I identify it.

JAMES BRETT (Policeman M 193). On the night of 21s. t August Mr. Hersee pointed out the three prisoners, and I followed them with him until I met 109 M—we then followed them down Kirksdale Street—Goddard

joined us, and I took Sheppard in Kirksdale Street—Wright was about 30 yards from them—I took Sheppard to the station, and searched him—he had 12s. 6d. in silver and 1s. 3d. In bronze, good money—Turner took Wright, and at that moment I heard a coin drop and Goddard picked it up.

ALFRED TURNER (Policeman M 109). A little before 11 p.m. on 21st August, near the Dun Cow, Brett and Goddard spoke to me, and I followed the three prisoners through two or three streets, and saw Wright about to enter a shop—I took him in custody in consequence of what Goddard said to me—the others were round the comer in Surrey Grove waiting for him near a window-sill—when I took Wright I heard something drop, and Goddard picked it up—it was a bad crown—I saw Goddard mark it at the station—they were searched at the station, and two half-crowns and a halfpenny were found on Walters, and some cheese—I afterwards went to the window-sill, where Walters and Sheppard had been standing, and I found another crown, which is marked with my number (109).

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am in the employ of the Mint—all these are bad coins from the same mould.

Walters's Defence. I asked Mrs. Williams if she would swear it was 4th August, and she said yes. The 4th was Sunday, and I never entered her shop. I was never picked out by Williams. I was going into Court when she swore to me.

GUILTY . They were further charged with having been convicted of a like offence in January, 1870, at this Court, in the name of Henry and Ellen Bollinson, to which they PLEADED GUILTY.— Seven Years' Penal Servitude each. WRIGHT** —Eighteen Months' Imprisonment .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-838
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

838. THOMAS BROWN , alias RICHARD OTT (26) , Stealing a watch of Samuel Jones from his person.

MR. HURRELL conducted the Prosecution. (See also page 589.)

SAMUEL JONES . I am a boot maker of 15, Leicester Street, Leicester Square—on Saturday, May 4th, between 12 and 1 p.m., I was in Lock's Fields alone, and saw the prisoner smoking a short pipe—I asked him the way to Sarah Ann Street—he said "I will show you"—he stopped a moment and then followed me, and pointed out where I was to turn—he said "That is the street," and turned round and took hold of my watchguard, broke the watch off, and ran away—I halloed "Thief," but every one appeared to be at dinner—I next saw him at Lock's Fields about two months after I suppose—he was placed with six or seven men—I could identify him from a thousand at once—I had described him to the police as well as I could, and gave the number of my watch, which I have never seen since.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I said to the detective I was not goodsighted, and wanted to get nearer to identify you, and I did so—you had not whiskers when you stole the watch.

THOMAS FRANCIS (Police Sergeant R). I took the prisoner from a description I saw in the "Police Information," and took him to Lock's Fields Police-station, and placed him with seven others—Jones came in and was standing looking round, when I said, "Go closer to him, you will see better then"—he began at one end of the row, and when he got to where the prisoner was, he said, "This is the man," without any hesitation—when

I took the prisoner he said, "I don't know anything about it, I have never been there in my life."

Prisoner's Defence. The detectives know me, and took me on suspicion; and they don't know what to bring against me.

GUILTY . ** He was further charged with a conviction of uttering counterfeit coin in January, 1876, to which he PLEADED GUILTY.— Seven Year's Penal Servitude .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-839
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > unknown

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839. JOHN KEMP (29) and ALFRED DUNFORD (20) , Robbery with violence on Robert Simmonds, and stealing one watch, his property, to which DUNFORD PLEADED GUILTY .

MR. D. METCALFE conducted the Prosecution; and MR. M. WILLIAMS defended Kemp.

ROBERT SIMMONDS . I live at 120, Ackerman Road, Brixton—was walking along Newington Butts, going home, at about 12.45 a.m., on 31st July, when I met the prisoners and another man—Dunford asked me for a light—I gave him my fusee-case, and noticed his hands down in front of me—I then saw my silver watch in his hand, which was safe in my waistcoat, with a chain, a few minutes before—I made a grasp at it, and Kemp forced his way between us and forced him out of my grasp—I am quite sure Kemp is the man—Dunford got away—I don't know what became of the watch; this is the chain—I tried to run after them, and Kemp got behind me and tripped me up—I could see him over my left shoulder—I lost sight of the men—I got up—Dunford went in the direction of St. George's Road, and I went through Short Street into Walworth Road and met a constable about 25 yards from where it occurred—while speaking to him Kemp came up, and another man, from the direction of Short Street, away from the place where the robbery was committed—I don't know who the other man was, he ran away—my attention was drawn to Kemp—I gave him in charge; I have not the slightest doubt as to his identity.

Cross-examined. I was not the worse for drink, I had had no more than I usually drink; I was sober—I don't recollect saving I had been drinking—I had been to New Cross and Greenwich, and had been out 12 hours, during which I had drunk four glasses of ale and four twopennyworths of whisky; that is all I remember—I had been into eight public-house—a third man was charged before the Magistrate, named Strutton—I said I was not quite positive as to him, and he was discharged—I lost sight of the men when I was thrown, and while I was talking to a constable in uniform Kemp came towards us, that was about two minutes after the robbery—I don't think I have any doubt—he asked me what I was charging him with, and I said, "Robbing me of my watch"—he said, "I had nothing to do with it"—on going to the station he took his watch from his pocket, and said, "Why should I take this man's watch when I have a watch of my own?"

GEORGE BYWATER (Policeman P 94). I was on duty in Walworth Road—Jones spoke to me—Kemp and another man approached, and he put out his hand and said, "This is the man"—I cannot say who the other man was, he stopped and went away in a sliding manner—I took hold of Kemp, and Jones charged him with being concerned with two others in stealing his watch—Kemp said it was all a mistake—on the way to the station ho pulled out his watch and said what did he want with this man's

watch when he had one of his own—about three times, I think, he said that—Jones was sober—I took Dunford in custody; he made a statement.

Cross-examined. I swear Jones was sober—I said before the Magistrate that he was excited, and that he had had something to drink—I mean he might be drinking without being drunk—from my experience in the public streets I thought so—Kemp said "It is a mistake, I know nothing about it", and came quietly with me.

Dunford's sister gave him a good character.

Dunford's Defence. Unfortuna'ely I got into bad company. I have been in prison seven weeks and am sure it will never occur again.

KEMP.— NOT GUILTY . DUNFORD stated that he was led into it by Kemp.— Nine Months' Imprisonment .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-840
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

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840. WILLIAM ARNOLD (32) , Stealing a clock and an antimacassar the goods of Ralph Hodgson.

MR. THORNE COLE conducted the Prosecution.

RALPH HODGSON . I am a coal-seller, of 6, Winstanley Road, Battterses—I was ill and had to go to St. Thomas's Hospital on 19th January with my wife and child through typhoid fever—I was lodging at 133, Grant Road, Battersea—the prisoner lodged in the same house and worked in the same yard that I did—my lodgings were left in charge of Mrs. Sich, the landlady—we had a second floor room and paid a weekly rent—this clock (produced) was at my lodgings when I went to the hospital, and this antimacassar was left in the prisoner's charge until we came out of the hospital, the first Thursday in April—I then when to where the prisoner was then lodging, 38, Grove Road, Battersea, and took a parcel of clothes that my wife took with her to the hospital—he had brought the boxes from where I was lodging to his own lodgings—I had given him no authority to do so—I left them there till I returned from the Convalescent Home, Bognor, which was the first Thursday in May, and removed the boxes from his lodgings about a week after, when he told me he had pawned the clock; and the day after he was charged I saw my antimacassat at his lodgings—I also missed a waterproof cloak which I brought from the hospital and left in his care and a scarlet and black wool shawl.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I asked you to take my child and look after it—the steward of the hospital wrote to you about it—I cannot remember authorising you to remove my things from Grant Road, so that I should have no rent to pay there—I believe you lost your own child at that time—you wrote to me when you lost your child, and told me you were obliged to take my child back to the hospital as you had not the power of keeping it—when I returned from the Convalescent Home I brought the child to your wife on the Saturday morning and asked her to take charge of it while I went to the hospital to fetch some clothes and I took it to you on the previous Sunday morning—you told me you had pledged the clock, but you did not say what for—that was after I had asked for it.

By the COURT. When the prisoner told me the clock had been pawned I did not say anything to him, because I had very little time—I said I could not help it, and I had no time to do nothing with it—I had to be in the hospital at 3 o'clock, and then it was 2—I did not tell him to get it out of pawn.

By the Prisoner. I locked the boxes and took the keys, but you asked me to send you the keys to take some things out to send them to the hospital.

The COURT considered that there was no evidence that the prisoner intended permanently to deprive the prosecutor of the articles. NOT GUILTY .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-841
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

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841. WILLIAM ARNOLD was again Indicted for feloniously forging and uttering an order for the payment of £1 10s., with intent to defraud, upon which MR. COLE offered no evidence. NOT GUILTY .

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-842
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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842. WILLIAM TAYLOR (28) , Stealing 8 3/4; b. of bacon of William Pether, his master.

MR. FULTON conducted the Prosecution; and MR. COOKS the Defence. WILLIAM PETHER. I am a grocer of High Street, Mortlake—the prisoner was my assistant about four months—on 3rd September he went away for a holiday—in his absence a parcel came to my shop addressed to him—he ought to have returned on the 4th, but did not—I opened the parcel on the evening of the 4th—it contained this gammon of bacon out into two or three pieces (produced)—it was marked B. B. with a diamond brand—it is Hamboro bacon, Prosser's, and I purchased it of Left wich, in the Borough—I always buy bacon of him with that mark—I then missed two or three hams and some bacon—I never authorised the prisoner to dispose of any ham or bacon for me other than in the ordinary course of business—he returned to his employment on September 5th, and looked very down and never spoke to me or my wife, and he went through to the yard—I sent for a constable and told the prisoner I should charge him with having stolen the bacon—he hesitated a moment or two, and then said that he had bought it.

Cross-examined. Other people can buy bacon of this kind at the same place—on 10th August I sold the prisoner 17lb. of bacon of no brand, which he took away on the Saturday night—it was a rougher kind than this—I brought two or three odd gammons home from the market—I have not sold him bacon or other meat on any other occasion—this letter accompanied the bacon in the parcel to the prisoner—I opened it—I never knew he was in the habit of buying bacon and ham of others. (Read: "114 A, Clapham Park Road. My Dear Uncle,—We have sent the cushion of bacon back, as it is no use to us. Father cut it on Sunday, and we found that it regular stunk, and it is as salt as brine. We have got the best part of the ham now, and mother says she never see such bacon or ham in her life, and father says you need not trouble to send us up any more. Mother says she is surprised at your sending us such rubbish as that, which is not fit to eat, &c. From your sincere nephew, G. Baigent. We shall have to throw the ham in the fat tub.") When the prisoner came back that was the first time I missed any bacon—if bacon had been kept from the 10th to the end of August it would be likely to go bad—this bacon was valued at 7s. 6d.—the piece of bacon the prisoner bought of me I let him have at a price, and my wife weighed it—he took it out of the shop and I wished him good night—he was under notice to quit when he went for his holiday—he has been out on bail.

Re-examined Now and then I purchase odd lots of bacon in the market, but they are never branded—the prisoner had the 17lb. at market price—this

piece weighed 7 3/4 lb.—it was the same part as the other, but much larger.

MARY ANN BAIGENT . I live at 114 A, Clapham Park Road, and my husband is a marine-store dealer—I received this bacon from the prisoner on 30th August—he is my brother-in-law—I was to pay for it, but as it was not what I thought it ought to be, I returned it in a parcel to High Street with this letter.

Cross-examined. I have bought bacon and cheese of the prisoner for this year or two.

SARAH PETHER . I am the prosecutor's wife—the prisoner was an assistant in our shop—I sold him some bacon on 10th August—I saw the bacon, which was produced, last Wednesday—no portion of it is that which I sold him—it is not the same class of bacon though the same part—on no occasion did I sell the prisoner bacon of this description—the parcel that came to the prisoner was opened in my presence—I had missed nothing in the multiplicity of business—I attend in the shop.

Cross-examined. I don't know that there was a brand on the bacon sold to the prisoner—my husband bought it in the market—we only buy this class of bacon at one place—I suppose others buy it there also—he had not permission to take any bacon away.

THOMAS CHILDS (Policeman V 5). On the morning of the 5th September the prisoner was given into my custody—he said he had bought the bacon, and given it to some friends at Clapham.

Witness for the Defence. ROBERT SCOTT. I buy German sausages and saveloys and all them sort of things—I have known the prisoner about nine years—I have many times sold him bacon—I think I last sold him a gammon in August on Barnes Common—I go there Tuesdays and Fridays—I would trust him with 1000l. worth to-morrow—he has always paid his way.

Cross-examined. I am not sure it was August that I sold the bacon—I think it was—I think there was a boat match on or something—as I was driving across the common I met the prisoner, who, I think, had just come out of the Red Lion public-house—it was very dark, about 8 o'clock at night—I pulled up to have a liquor—I was going to Mortlake—I live at Vauxhall—I sell Germans, spiced beef, and collard-head—I sold the prisoner 7lb.—he has bought bacon of me hundreds of times, and lard and cheese in the same way.

Re-examined. I could fetch up 100 people who I have sold to in the same way—there are many brands, Irish and Scotch marks.

The Prisoner received a good character. NOT GUILTY .

Before Mr. Justice Lopes.

16th September 1878
Reference Numbert18780916-843
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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843. WILLIAM SAUNDERS (23) , Feloniously cutting and wounding Edward Ford, with intent to do him some grievous bodily harm.

MR. LILLY conducted the Prosecution; and MR. A. B. KELLY the Defence.

The Prisoner having stated in the hearing of the Jury that he wished to PLEAD GUILTY to unlawfully wounding, they returned a verdict to that effect. His mother gave him a good character.— Two Months' Imprisonment.


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