Old Bailey Proceedings.
1st May 1876
Reference Number: t18760501

ActionsCite this text | Print-friendly version | Report an error
Old Bailey Proceedings front matter.
1st May 1876
Reference Numberf18760501

Related Material


Sessions Paper.








Short-hand Writers to the Court,












On the Queen's Commission of



The City of London,





Held on Monday, May 1st, 1876, and following days,

BEFORE THE RIGHT HON. WILLIAM JAMES RICHMOND COTTON , M.P., LORD MAYOR of the City of London; The Hon. Sir WILLIAM BALIOL BRETT, Knt., one of the Justices of Her Majesty's Court of Common Pleas; Hon. Sir RICHARD PAUL AMPHLETT , Knt., one of the Barons of Her Majesty's Court of Exchequer; THOMAS QUESTED FINNIS, Esq., Sir WILLIAM ANDERSON ROSE , Knt., WILLIAM LAWRENCE , Esq., Sir JAMES CLARKE LAWRENCE, BART., Aldermen of the said City; The Right Hon. RUSSELL GURNET , Q.C., M.P., Recorder of the said City; Sir THOMAS WHITE , Knt., JOHN WHITTAKER ELLIS, Esq., SIMEON CHARLES HADLEY , Esq., others of the Aldermen of the said City; Sir THOMAS CHAMBERS , Knt. Q.C., M.P., Common Serjeant of the said City; and ROBERT MALCOLM KERR , Esq., Judge of the Sheriff's Court; Her Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer and General Gaol Delivery of Newgate, holden for the said City, and Judges of the Central Criminal Court.









A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoner's age.


OLD COURT—Monday, May 1st, 1876.

Before Mr. Recorder.

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-337
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

337. ROBERT JOHN YOUNG (41), was indicted for wilful and corrupt perjury.

MESSRS. HARRIS, WILLIS, and PEILE conducted the Prosecution; and MESSES. WARNER SLEIGH, C. MATHEWS, and Gill the Defence. '.

WILLIAM JOSEPH JESSE . I am chief usher at Worship Street police-court—on 2nd February I administered the oath to the defendant as a witness in the prosecution of William Pilley—he gave evidence on that occasion.

EDWARD LEE . I am chief clerk at Worship Street police-court—on 2nd February I took the defendant's deposition against William Pilley—I produce it. (The deposition being read, the statements upon which perjury was alleged was that William Pilley had directed Young to remove two boxes containing brass bands belonging to Mr. Warren from the premises in Buttesland Street, Hoxton, to stables adjoining Pilley's residence at Stoke Newington; that he told him to do that so that no one should see him, and that he afterwards gave them to Young, telling him to do as he liked with them, and that he considered he was giving him 5l.

WILLIAM PILLEY . I am the prosecutor in this case—I am a rate and tax collector for the City of London—I have an office at No. 1, Aldermanbury Postern—I am proprietor of the Basinghall Hotel, New Basinghall Street—my private residence is at 61, Stoke Newington Road—I have a stable at Barrett's Grove, that is about one-eighth of a mile from my house—I have also a stable attached to the house, I use that stable, not the other, only as a store place, to put a spare trap in; there is a way to it through my garden, and also a way through a public gate to Barrett's Grove—the defendant is a carpenter, he has worked for me four or five years off and on at odd jobs—he occupied premises at 23, Redcross Street under the Metropolitan Railway, and I objected to him for nonpayment of rent; I took the premises and allowed him to occupy them rent free for nearly two years up to January or February this year, I then turned him out—about July last year I purchased the lease of 21, Buttesland Street, of Mr. Benson, for 250l.—on 23rd July I let those premises to Mr. Warren, an auctioneer, for twenty-eight

days, for 10l., to hold a sale there—during the time he occupied the place I let them to Mr. Westoby on lease—I was to give Mr. Westoby possession on 13th September when I purchased the premises of Mr. Benson there were some fixtures there of Mr. Benson's which he valued at 100l.; they were left there—I was not aware that there were two boxes of brass bands there until Young told me they were there—on 13th September I was at 21, Buttesland Street for the purpose of giving Mr. Westoby possession of the premises—I talked to Mr. Benson about the removal of his fixtures, I sent for him to my office, I think that was on the 12th, or the morning of the 13th—Young was there, my son, and I think my son's porter, Houlton—I asked Mr. Benson how he proposed to remove the fixtures; he first proposed selling them—I said there was not time to sell them—he said "I have no room for them at my place"—I said "Well, you can put them in my old stable until you have time to sell them"—he then turned to Young and asked Young if he would remove them—he said "You take the' things to Mr. Pilley's stable-yard in Barrett's Grove"—it was through Young's intervention that the premises were let to Westoby and he received 5l. from me for doing so—Young agreed to remove them; he said he would go and get a horse and van and remove them—I did not give him any instructions to remove the things to my place, all I said to Young was that he might put them in the yard; he knew the yard well enough—Mr. Benson gave him the instructions—I saw the defendant again, after Mr. Benson had gone, at my office—he then said he was going with this horse and van to remove the things—I said "Well, I shall be up there about 5 o'clock in the evening to give up possession to Westoby"—he went away, and I went up in the afternoon; I believe he sent his boy for me; I met the boy on the road—when I got up there the van was loaded, or partially loaded—Young was there and several carmen, I did not know them; Burke and Oxley were there—Young met me at the corner—I said to him "Have you got all Benson's things out?"—he said "There is a bench or two that I have not removed;"I believe he said on the first floor—I went throngh the door with him, whether I went into the premises or not I can hardly tell, I believe I did go in—I came out and handed the key to Mr. Westoby and said "Now, finish getting Benson's things away," and with that I left—at that time I knew nothing whatever about any boxes of brass bands being on the premises—I did not tell Young to put them in the van and take them to my place with the other things; or say "Don't let that man see you put them on, I will go away, and will not be seen it," it is perfectly untrue—I did not direct him to take the man away to drink—I did not tell him that the boxes contained brass; I knew nothing of the kind—I gave up possession to Westoby's man, and went home—the first I heard of the brass bands was a letter from Mr. Warren—I went from Buttesland Street to my private residence, and was there from 6 until 9 o'clock—in consequence of a message from Young I went to the stable yard, and there saw Young and these men with the wagon load of things; it was then quite dark—the van was in the road; I believe it was unloaded, with the exception of a large iron tank called a stove—Young asked me "Where am I to put it?"—I told him to put it against a fence in the stable-yard—Young said "I have lost the key of the padlock"—I had a candle in my hand; I gave him the candle, and said "You had better look for the key"—he said it did not matter, he could put a peg in the hasp, the door would be safe enough that way—I said "It is very strange you should lose the key; at all events, if

you can't find it, I will have another padlock put on; "He seemed disappointed—my son was there, and I told him "If Young cannot find the key go and take the padlock off the fowl-house, and go and see that the place is properly fastened up," and with that I went away—I did not see the van unloaded, no further than the iron tank; all I saw was a lot of old lumber and beams of wood in the corner, but no box—I received a communication from Mr. Warren about the middle of September; it might have been a week after giving possession to Mr. Westoby—in consequence of that communication I sent for Young; he came to my office in Aldermanbury Postern in the morning part—my son was present, and Holton, my son's porter—Mr. Walker was present on one occasion, but I think not when I received the first letter; I won't be sure—I showed Young the letter, and handed it to him—this is it. (Read: "24th September, 1875. Dear Sir,—I have sent several times to you respecting some brass banding that was taken from Buttealand Street when you removed your goods from there—I must request you to inform me who removed them, so that I can make inquiries about it. Perhaps you can inform me whether they were taken anywhere by mistake. Kindly answer by return, as it is a matter of importance. Hy. T. Warren") Young said "No, I don't remember removing such things"—I described them to him as they had been described by Warren to my son—he said they were too long, narrow boxes about 9 ft or 10 ft. long and about 5 ft. by. 4 ft.—Young then said "Yes, I did take those two boxes away"—I said "Well, you are putting me to a lot of trouble, and you are a great scamp if you removed these things, because you knew they were not part and parcel of Benson's goods. I suppose that is the reason you lost the key. Now, you go immediately to my premises and take them to Mr. Warren"—he said "I have not Mr. Warren's address"—I said "Here it is, on the top of this letter"—that was the letter I was showing him, but to prevent mistake I handed the letter to my son, and said "Write the address and give it to Young," and he did so—I can't give it you, because I did not see it, but I think it was somewhere in Gracechurch Street; I believe it was the same address that was on the letter—Young said that he would fetch them, and I said that as he was going there there were two or three gates in my yard that wanted easing, and he could ease them at the same time—he said he would—I never told him then nor at any time that 1 would make him a present of the boxes, or that I considered I was giving him 5l., or any words to that effect (I had given him 5l. for letting the premises), or that he might do what he liked with them; nothing of the kind—he called again a little later in the day with his tools, and said "I shall have to employ a horse and cart to-remove those things"—I said "Well, you can take the pony and cart from Stoke Newington, and take them back to Warren's," and he left saying that he would do so—Holton was present on that occasion, and I believe my son and Mr. Walker—I went to Stoke Newington the same evening, and saw Young; he had done the few jobs I had told him to do, and he had carried the two long, narrow boxes and placed them against the stable attached to the house; that was the first time I saw the boxes—I then said to him "Now, see that they are delivered safely to Warren," and with that I left—that was all I saw with respect to those boxes; that might have been between 7 and 8 o'clock at night—about a week after that he came to my office one morning; I believe on that occasion Dr. Nicholls and Mr. Walker were present, and my son—I said "Have you taken those boxes back to Warren?"—he said "Yes, I

have; I have delivered them to him"—I believe there was another letter from Mr. Warren; I can't say the date; it might have been a week after Young was at the office, but he was there so often I can hardly fix date—Dr. Nicholls, Walker, and my son were present then—I asked him if the boxes had been removed because I had received another letter from Warren, and he assured me that they had, and then he alleged as an excuse why I had received that letter, that Warren had removed from Gracechurch Street, I think he said to Queen Victoria Street or Cannon Street—I could but accept his excuse, because he assured me that the goods had been returned—I don't think I saw him again about the boxes till the end of November; I can't fix the date exactly—I had left business, and was walking up Redcross Street, and I saw two labouring-looking men with two boxes very similar to those that Young had carried away and that I had seen at my stable door—curiosity more than anything else led me to stop the men and say "What are you doing with those boxes I because they were right opposite Young's shop, 23, Redcross Street, and I saw Young in the distance evidently tipsy—I told the men to stop and called a policeman, while I went after Young—I said "What a d—d fellow you are to give all this trouble about these boxes, you have repeatedly told me that you would return them"—he said "Oh, governor, it is all right"—we walked along Fore Street till we came to where the men had these boxes lying down in the road—there was a crowd of people round—a man named McMillan came up and used abusive language to me, and said "What do you want with the boxes, will you give the men into custody"—I refused—Young said "What is the good of making this bother, governor, I will see that the boxes are returned all right; they are going to McMillan's to-night, and to-morrow morning they shall be returned"—McMillan is a man that purchases old lead and iron, and keeps a zinc shop; and Young is in the habit of selling old material to him—I took Young to my office and fetched my son and went to McMillan's premises and saw the boxes deposited there—Young, McMillan and some more men were all drinking together—Young was drinking for some days after that—about a week afterwards he came to my office—my son was present and, I believe, Walker—he said he was very sorry that the goods had not been returned, and wanted me to give him some more work, and I agreed to give him a contract for 50l. on some premises that I had bought in Fore Street—I afterwards had some disagreement with him about it, and I turned him out of the premises, he having drawn all the money for the contract; I think that was about the 22nd January—the next I heard about the boxes was on 1st February, when two detectives came to my office and took me into custody, and I was locked up all night without bail—next morning I was taken before Mr. Hannay at Worship Street, and Young gave evidence against me, the case was dismissed and I then took these proceedings.

Cross-examined. I have employed Young about five years on and off on small jobs—I am an income-tax collector and assessor—I have not had occasion to assess the prisoner since I turned him out of my premises—I collect his income-tax when there is any to collect—I don't assess him, he making his return to me—it is untrue that I have assessed him at 2l. 5s. 10d. since, instead of 1l. 5s.—I may have received two or three letters from Mr. Warren about these boxes, I have brought here all the letters that came into my possession—it may have been three or four—I don't know the date of the last, I could not swear it was not 20th

December—I did not tell McMillan that these boxes belonged to me, nothing of the kind—it was not my business to go to Mr. Warren and tell him about the boxes being sent to McMillan's—Young did not tell me that he had sold them to McMillan—he told me that McMillan had lent him 10s. for the night, and that they had spent it together—McMillan told me he had bought them, and I said they were not Young's to sell, and if necessary for the protection of the goods I would claim them—I did not read Warren's letter of 20th December to my knowledge—I have no recollection of it; I would not wear either way—McMillan was a man who would buy anything that was cheap; I have had one or two dealings with him, I sold him an old lead cistern fire years ago—I remember an action of Saint against Lockyear—I made an affidavit in that action two years ago—this is it (read)—upon that an interpleader was issued against me—a house was let to me by a Mr. Lark and I let it to Lockyear—there were some fixtures on the premises—Lockyear gave up the premises to a man named Binns he was not employed by me; I swear that—I did not pay 15l. damages and 60l. costs—Lark, my landlord, defended the action, he bought the fixtures and sold them to me—I believe I did go inside the house in Buttesland Street on the night these goods were removed, I went because Young told me there was a bench or two that he had not removed and I directed him to remove them; I went there to give up the premises as agreed to Westoby, his man was waiting for the key—I don't think I went inside further than the door—I went there about 5 o'clock and got home about 5.30 or 5.45, and the first I heard of the van was about 9 o'clock—Young took the things to the stable by Benson's orders, I gave Benson permission to put them there—I did not tell Young to go to Caffery the carman, I have employed Caffery at different times, not much—I sent for Benson for the purpose of speaking to him about the fixtures, he would not have sold the fixtures but for me, because there was not time to sell them—I did not say to him "Don't sell them, you will lose"—I said "If you sell them in such a hurry there is not time to call in a broker and sell them;" that he might not get so much for them, and I told him he might take them to my premises in Barrett's Grove—I did not charge him anything for the use of the stable—I did not tell Warren in December that the bands had been sold by Young to McMillan—Warren asked me the address of the man that had removed the goods and I gave him Young's address—I thought it was a drunken frolic on Young's part leaving them at McMillan's—I did not think he was scamp enough to sell them; there were five or six of them drinking together that night, they were all drunk—I had-spoken to him about the bands several times before the 19th, and he always said he had returned them—I never answered one of Warren's letters—I should not think I was at the house in Buttesland Street a quarter of an hour when the things were being removed—I told Young to take the brass bands to Warren the same day that he admitted receiving them, that was on the receipt of the letter of 24th September from Warren—I might have received another of 8th October—I told Young he might have my pony and cart and my son's porter to take the things to Warren—it was not arranged with Young that I should be there to see the things out—Young had the key and I took it from him—Buttesland Street is about 2 miles from my office—I met Young's lad, he said he was coming to my office, and I gave him 2d. to ride back—when I got to the house I asked Young if he had taken out all

Benson's things—he did not ask me to come in and see—I did not see these boxes, I distinctly swear that—he did not say there were some iron bolts there which he did not know whether they belonged to Benson or not; there was no one present at the time, Westoby's man was standing on one side of the front door waiting to receive the key—I should not think he could hear—I did not send him to a public-house to have something to drink—I believe I gave him the key—I don't think the front door was shut when I left—I did not see any of the goods moved from the van into the stable—my son did not carry the boxes in, he was not there.

CHARLES JOHN BENSON . I am a costume maker and live in Milton Street, Fore Street—I had the house 21, Buttesland Street, Hoxton—I sold it to Mr. Pilley in July or August last—I left a large quantity of fixtures there—about the middle of September Mr. Pilley sent for me to his office; I found Young there and Mr. Pilley's son—Mr. Pilley said to me "Westoby wants the place cleared; what will you do with your fixtures?"—I said "I will have a broker in and sell them"—he said "Don't do that, you will lose so much money"—I said "I have no place to put them"—he said "If you like, you can have them put at the back of my place at Stoke Newington"—I said to Young "Young, will you see them taken from Buttesland Street to the back of Mr. Pilley's house at Stoke Newington?"—he said "I will"—Mr. Pilley did not give any instructions to remove these things; that was all the conversation that passed.

Cross-examined. Young said "I will go and get a cart;"I don't think I mentioned that at the police-court—I saw him about a month afterwards, and asked him whether he was going to charge me for moving the things—he said "No; Mr. Pilley has paid me a liberal commission for letting the premises to Westoby and I will not charge you anything for removing the fixtures."

JOHN WESLEY PILLEY . I carry business on at I, Aldermanbury Postern, and am son of the prosecutor—I was present in the office on the 13th September, I think it was, when my father was there, the defendant, and Mr. Benson—Mr. Westoby, the tenant, required the fixtures to be removed—Mr. Benson said "We better get a broker and sell them;" father said "It is impossible to do that now; if you like, you can send them up to my private house, as there is more room there than at your-place for them"—my father gave no instructions on that occasion whatever—I was present on the day on which the goods were removed from Buttesland Street to be brought up to Stoke Newington—I was not present when the goods arrived, I had not left the City then—I got home before the van had gone away—the goods were unloaded—I saw my father there, he was looking for the key, and Young was also looking for the key—I did not see the brass bands or boxes at all—I had not the slightest idea they were there—my father had not his attention called to them in any way, to my knowledge—I remember seeing my father, the prisoner, and Mr. Walker some time early in January, at No. 1, Aldermanbury Postern—I found the keys of the gate were lost and they were looking for them my father said "Put a new lock on"—I heard my father say to the prisoner "Mr. Warren has been writing to me about some brass bands removed from Buttesland Street"—he said "Oh"—my father said "You had the removing of the goods and you must know what you have put upon the van"—he afterwards said "Yes, I do recollect removing them away;'

father then told him to go and fetch them back again and take them to Mr. Warren—he also told me to give him Mr. "Warren's address, and I wrote the address on a piece of paper and handed it to the defendant—I wrote "Mr. Warren, 52, Gracechurch Street"—he said "It is not worth while putting me to the expense of a horse and trap, will you allow Alfred to go with me to Stoke Newington and bring them down in the pony and cart?" (Alfred Holton is a porter in my employ)—I consented to his going with my father's pony and cart—my father said also "You may as well as you are up there go a little earlier in the day, as there are two or three gates in the garden that wont shut, and you can attend to them when you are there"—I was at Stoke Newington on the evening of that day—I saw the prisoner there—1 went home about 3 o'clock—I was there the whole of the afternoon—I saw the boxes fetched out—my father told Young to fetch the boxes, and he went down the garden and brought them up and stood them by the stable door; my father then told him to take them back to Mr. Warren—I was present the whole of the time—I did not hear my father say "I consider I have given you as good as 5l. tonight;" I heard no words of giving the goods to the defendant on this occasion, nor that he might take them where he liked—I saw the goods put into the cart; my father was not present then, nor when the prisoner drove away—this was before Lord Mayor's day; about the 1st or 2nd November, I should think—I recollect subsequently having another interview with the prisoner at my father's when Dr. Nicholls was present—I recollect my father putting the question to the prisoner whether he had taken the goods to Mr. Warren, and he said "Yes"—after this, I recollect seeing the prisoner in Fore Street—my father fetched him, he met him in Redcross Street, close to Jewyn Street, and he said "Young, you ought to be locked up for this; here's Young selling the bands he ought to have returned to Mr. Warren"—Young said he had not sold them, he had only sent them round to Mr. McMillan and would deliver them in the morning—I went with my father to Mr. McMillian's, but he was out—a, day or two after I saw the prisoner again, and my father asked him whether he had taken the goods back again to Mr. Warren, and he said "Yes;" Mr. Walker was present on that occasion, and my father, myself, and the porter was sitting at the end of the shop.

Cross-examined. I said at the police-court that upon Benson's suggesting it my father agreed to the goods being taken to his house, but I think I made a slight mistake, it was my father said "might send them"—my father did not say to Young "To save you the expense of a. cart, my son's porter can go with you and bring these things back in the pony cart belonging to me"—Youug said "Very well," but I think not to my father's suggestion—my lather did not say to Benson that he had better not sell, because he would sell at a considerable loss—1 did not know Mr. Warren very well—he called at our place and I saw him—I told him Young had been removing the goods, and also the name of the carman, and he asked me if I knew anything about the vans—I said "No"—I saw the letters which were written to my father—I have no knowledge of the one written last, in the end of December—I will not swear there was not a letter on the 20th December—I never saw it to my knowledge—I do not recollect Warren coming up to the office door in a hansom cab in December and having a conversation with my father—I do not recollect that my father, Mr. Warren, and myself had a conversation in December about these brass bands—I will not say such a thing did

not take place—my father had employed Young for five or six years—I assist my father in his numerous vocations; he is not in business; he keeps the Basinghall Hotel and he keeps an office—he buys and sells property and I assist him—he has not continuously employed Young in things for five or six years that he could not give to more important people—he has often employed him in small jobs—I know he allowed him to live at his place of business for two years, rent-free—I know most of my father's business matter—I was not present at part of the removal of the goods at my father's house at Stoke Newington—the goods were not deposited in the stable at all, they were in the open ground—I was in the stable-yard when the goods were deposited; it was about 8 o'clock in the evening; it was too dark to see the goods—my father was there before I got there.

Re-examined. When I got there I found the van unloaded and my father there, and the question was arising about the padlock—the prisoner said "Never mind, it will do just as well to put a peg in the door"—I took a peg out of one of the fowl-house doors and put it in.

JOHN JOSEPH WALKER . I am a retired builder, living at 25, Wood Street, Westminster—I know Mr. Pilley and his son—I remember being in his office one day before the 9th of November; Mr. Pilley and Mr. John Pilley were present, and Young—Mr. Pilley asked Young if he had seen anything of two boxes, packing-cases, containing brass bands—he said at first "No, I did not see them"—Mr. Pilley then gave the description: he said they were too long boxes, like pieces of timber, belonging to Mr. Warren—Young said "I remember removing two boxes of that description among the other lumber to your private house"—Mr. Pilley said "Well, Mr. Warren has made an application to me for them, and you had better go and get them and take them to Mr. Warren"—he said "How shall I get them down there?"—Pilley said "You must get a van"—"Oh," He said, "it is not worth while getting a van; can't you allow John's porter to go with the dog-cart 1l. and Mr. Pilley said "Yes"—the address Mr. John Pilley wrote, and gave it to the defendant, and Mr. Pilley said "Well, there are some gates in the garden want easing; you had better take up a few tools and do them"—Young said he would go at once, and he left—I remember being at Mr. Pilley's office, on the 20th November, as near as I can tell; Mr. Pilley, sen., and Mr. Pilley, jun., and Dr. Nicholls were present—Young was there—Mr. Pilley said to him "What about those boxes of brass bands? I am being continually annoyed by Mr. Warren; why have you not taken them home?"—he said "I have done so"—Mr. Pilley said "It is a very strange thing if you have done so that I should be annoyed in this manner," and he said "I have"—that was all the conversation.

Cross-examinied. I have known Mr. Pilley about eight years intimately, and in business also—I cannot say that I was introduced to him by a gentleman named Templeman, but it was through him that I became acquainted with him—I do not know that Mr. Pilley was an intimate friend of Mr. Templeman's; he was my solicitor as well as his, and we all agreed intimately together in the way of business, and in the way of friendship to a certain amount—I have dined with Mr. Pilley frequently—Mr. Templeman is a solicitor who had fourteen years' penal servitude, and is undergoing it now—I saw Mr. Warren the night Mr. Pilley was given into custody—I never saw him before to my knowledge—I have not seen Mr. Wanen in Pilley's office until that occasion when he was given into custody—I was there then—I am sure that Mr. Pilley did not tell me in September that

Warren had been to his house—Mr. Pilley never told me about these brass bands; I have never heard him telling Young—I am a retired builder—my property is in several parts of London—I am a valuer, and as a rule I value what property Mr. Pilley buys and sells—I am not engaged in building transactions with him.

Re-examined. I was Mr. Pilley's builder for seven or eight years.

RICHARD NICHOLLS . I am a doctor in medicine, and lire at Hampstead—I remember being at the prosecutor's office about the middle of November—Mr. Walker came in while I was there—the defendant was there during the interview; both Mr. Pilley, sen., and Mr. Pilley, jun., were there—a conversation took place between the prosecutor and the defendant respecting a letter which the prosecutor held in his hand, and he said "Now, Mr. Young, what about these brass bands 1l. You will get me into trouble about these things. You told me you had returned them, is that so?"—"Yes," he said, and Mr. Pilley said "Well, it is very strange; what do these letters mean?"—I do not recollect what else was said—I left immediately afterwards—Young said distinctly that he had returned them.

Cross-examined. I was first asked to give evidence in this matter at the second hearing of the case at Worship police-court—I think it was mentioned by Mr. Pilley—I could not say that Mr. Pilley's son was there—I recollect distinctly Mr. Pilley asking me whether I heard this conversation—I do not think Mr. Walker was present; I would not undertake to swear that he was not—Mr. Pilley asked me to give evidence at the police-court; this was when Young was on his trial; I could not distinctly state—all four of us were present, including Mr. Pilley, his "son, Walker, and myself—I do not know anything about our talking about the case—I am a physician; I was trained in England, and passed in Naples—I am studying to pass in the College of Physicians in England—I am not at present a member; I am neither a member of the College of Surgeons—I have had shops for patent medicines that I have—I have known Mr. Pilley for some years, on not very intimate terms with him; I came in to see him respecting an attack of rheumatism.

Re-examined. That is how I happened to be there—I have stated what really took place—I was present when the man was taken into custody.

PHILLIP HOLTON . I am a porter in the service of Mr. Pilley, jun.—I had instructions from Mr. Pilley to go to a house in Stoke Newington—I saw the prisoner there—some conversation took place between them—he told him to see about those two boxes to Mr. Warren—the prisoner said "All right"—Mr. Pilley went away, and when he was back he said "Mr. Young, you took those boxes to Mr. Warren"—I helped to load the things—Mr. Pilley was not there at the time the cart was loaded—this was just before Lord Mayor's Day—I was present during the time Mr. Pilley was there on that night, and I heard nothing said by Mr. Pilley about making these boxes a present to the defendant, nor a gift, nor that he might do what he liked with them; nor that what he had done was worth 5l., nor anything to that effect—I came away in the cart with the prisoner—when we drove away Mr. Pilley was not there—I recollect turning into Chiswell Street, and I asked the prisoner what he was taking them that way for, and he said "Blow taking them to Mr. Warren's that night"—I went with the prisoner to his house, and he took the two boxes into his house—I took the pony and cart to the stables—I recollect some time after that being in the shop—I heard Mr. Pilley ask him if he had taken the brass bands to Mr. Warren's, and he said he had.

Cross-examined. I was standing a dozen yards away from the cart when the things were being taken into it—I heard Mr. Pilley say that they were to be taken straight to Mr. Warren's—I went with Young—I was told to go—I was given no instructions about the things being taken to Mr. Warren's; that I swear—I heard Mr. Pilley direct him to take them to Warren's, and as a matter of fact they were taken to Young's premises in Bridgewater Square—I did not know that Mr. Pilley was very much annoyed about Warren's applying to him about the boxes—I knew that Mr. Pilley was charged upon the evidence of Young at the police-court with stealing these brass bands—I said nothing then about these things—before Young was at the police-court I did say something to Mr. Pilley—I recollect Dr. Nicholls coming to Mr. Pilley's office and also Mr. Walker on the same day; and Mr. Pilley and his son were at home at the time.

Re-examined. This was about a week after we had removed the things, and prior to the time when Mr. Pilley was given into custody.

WILLIAM MCFREE . I am a labourer—I remember sometime after the goods were removed from Buttesland Street, Mr. Warren speaking to me; in consequence I made a communication to Mr. Pilley—I went down in consequence to see Young—the first time I saw him was in his own house—I told him Mr. Warren had been after the brass bands and he said "All right"—I left him at that—sometime after that I received another commuuication from Mr. Warren which I communicated to Mr. Pilley, who again sent me to Young—I saw Young this time in Redcross Street, and 1 told him Mr. Warren had been after these brass bands, he said "That's all right."

Cross-examined. I recollect the conversation on the 1st February with Young—he said "That's all right" and no more passed—I was not present at the loading of the van—I did not see Mr. Pilley present at the unloading of the van—I did not see him until it was half-unloaded—I did see him, he was coming with a candle in his hand—I saw his son; he was there but went away again, he was looking for the keys—I recollect young Pilley assisting to remove some of the things during the latter part of the unloading.

ROBERT PEARCE . I am a solicitor—I asked Messrs. Wontner and Sous to institute the criminal proceedings against Mr. Pilley—that was in consequence of what Mr. Young said to me.

Cross-examined. I would not believe Mr. Pilley upon his oath—I am a member of the firm of Bayliss and Pearse—I am the junior partner.

Re-examined. Mr. Pilley was a client of our firm—I managed his business and saw him frequently in the matter—he has filed a bill against my firm and several actions against me, one action for negligence which he has not gone on with, and one for not paying money into Court.

The following Witnesses were called for the Defence:

ALFRED WESTOBY . I am a collar dresser, 21, Buttesland Street, City Road—I took those premises in September—in October I went with my olicitor to Mr. Pilley's premises, I can't say the date, to arrange terms—a Receipt was given to me, and a conversation took place about it—at the end of September I noticed two boxes on the premises, they contained brass bands; I know that because they were partially open, a piece of the ide was broken—Mr. Pilley asked me who they belonged to, that was two or three days before they were moved—he could see as well as I could

that they were brass bands—I told him they belonged to Mr. Warren, the auctioneer.

Cross-examined. This is the first time I have given evidence in this matter—I was first spoken about it when Mr. Young called on me previous to the last Sessions; I was subopened at the last Sessions—I know Young—he asked me several questions about the boxes; I said they were on the premises—I don't think he asked me whether Mr. Pilley had seen them; I don't remember—I told him he had seen them—I moved in at the end of November, but I had possession early in September—I knew that Mr. Warren had been selling some goods on the premises, I was at the sale—I knew that some goods were left by Mr. Warren and that these things belonged to him—I swear that I told Mr. Pilley that they belonged to Mr. Warren—I was not present when the fixtures and things were removed.

WILLIAM ALFRED TOLLIDAY . I am a painter, 15, Swinton Street—on 13th September last I was employed by Mr. Westo by painting the premises, 21, Buttesland Street—Young came there that afternoon between 3 and 4 o'clock with two other men and a van—Mr. Pilley came there about 5 o'clock—he gave orders to Young to take away a bench and a grindstone—he went into the house, all over the premises—he said to Young "What is this man doing here?" that was me—Young said "He is doing work for Mr. Westoby," and I said to him "Do you want to see Mr. Westoby particularly; "He remainded there between twenty minutes and half an hour—I can't say that he gave orders to the men—all the things were removed; he saw them all removed—he gave orders—he saw everything taken away.

Cross-examined. I believe there was a van load of things—I should think Young was there two hours or two and a half—I was at work at the top of the house, but I was at work on the ground floor when they left—I saw Mr. Pilley go up stairs and come down again; he left three minutes" before the van left—Young was there last—I did not see the key given to anybody.

By THE COURT. None of Mr. Westoby's men were there, only the engineer; he was only there a few minutes—the van went away to the East Road between five and ten minutes, and came back again along with Mr. Pilley; they had not cleared everything then, there was a small fench and a grindstone, which Mr. Pilley told Young to put in; the van hen went away, and I locked up and took the key—nothing was removed after the bench and the grindstone.

JAMES WILMOT MCMILLAN . I am a tin and iron plate worker, at 50, Udersgate Street—on 17th November I had two boxes of brass bands from Young; I bought them at 6 1/2d. a pound—I removed them that day; I went two of my men to fetch them—a communication was afterwards made to me, in consequence of which I went to Redcross Street and saw the men and two policemen with them and the boxes on the pavement—Mr. Pilley came up and said "Halloo! McMillan"—I said "Halloo! are you going to pick me up"—he said "No; bring those goods over to my shop, they are ine"—I said "They are not yours, they are mine; I bought them of Mr. oung and paid 10s. deposit"—he said "What are you going to do with em"—I said "If you are going to give me in charge I will take them to the station-house, or take them to my own place"—he said "Then, take them home to your own place," and I thanked him.

Cross-examined. He did not say "Iclaim these goods for protection"—I believe the police had stopped my men at the instance of Mr. Pilley, but I did not see Mr. Pilley there then—I did not see Young till next day—I gave 2l. 5s. for the brass bands; 6 1/2d. a lb., 831bs., and I sold them for 7 1/2d.

HENRY THOMAS WARREN . I am an auctioneer, 60, Queen Victoria Street—I had some boxes of brass bands at 21, Buttesland Street—I called on Mr. Pilley in reference to the loss of them—I can't tell the date, I think it was within a fortnight after the sale; I saw him, and told him I had missed some brass bands from the premises, that I had heard that he had removed some goods from the premises with his goods, and I asked him if he could give me any information concerning them—he said he had not removed them and that if I saw Young perhaps he could tell me where the goods had been removed—I afterwards wrote to Mr. Pilley—I have not got copies of the letters; I furnished copies to my solicitor—I think I wrote four or five letters, at the least—I should not like to give you the date of the first letter unless I had my book—I think it was very shortly after I had called on him, within a day or two—the sale was on the 10th August, and I called on him about a fortnight afterwards and I wrote a few days after that—I corresponded with him during August, September, and (I am not sure) October—I should not like to say there was a letter in November, there was in December; my last letter was in December—I saw Mr. Pilley several times about the bands—he never told me that he knew Young had got them—I asked him to give me any information he could.

Cross-examined. I have seen both the Mr. Pilleys; I saw the elder Mr. Pilley three or four times, three at least—I can hardly tell you the second time I saw him; I could not give the date—it was between August and November—the first time was in September—I should not like to say saw him in November, unless I had my diary.

WILLIAM PHELPS (City Policeman 144). I recollect stopping the men in ewin Street on the 17th November—Mr. Pilley left us for a few minutes and he came back and said something to me—I asked him if he was going to charge the men with unlawful possession, and he said "No, it is all right."

WILLIAM PILLEY, SENIOR (re-called). It is quite right what the policeman as said—I went back to him and said "All right"—McMillan told me hey should be taken to his premises for protection that night—Mr. Warren and Mr. Westoby had had some transaction—the only conversation I had with Mr. Westoby on one occasion was "I have allowed Warren to leave his goods."

Cross-examined. Westoby had had a transaction with Warren apart from his matter—Westoby had bought an engine I believe of Warren.

GUILTY Five Years' Penal Servitude .

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-338
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

338. JOHN THOMAS CROOME , PLEADED GUILTY to stealing the lms of 1l., 3l. 8s. 3d., and 1l. 12s., of John Batchelor, his master, having been before convicted of felony— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment . And

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-339
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

339. JAMES FULLER , to three indictments for forging and uttering ders for 84l., 70l., and 50l., with intent to defraud. He received a good ch aracter— Seven Years' Penal Servitude . [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

NEW COURT.—Monday, May 1st, 1876.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-340
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

340. JOHN ROBERTS (52) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. CRAUFURD and LLOYD conducted the Prosecution; and MR. MONTAGU WILLIAMS the Defence.

EDWARD MAY . I am barman at the King's Arms, Park Street, Islington—on 15th April about 3 p.m. I served the prisoner with 2d. worth of rum; he tendered a florin which I tested and bent into the shape of the bowl of a spoon; it was soft—he said that if I gave it back to him he would take it to his employer—I bent it straight again with my finger and thumb, but not so straight as it was before, and gave it back to him—he gave me 2d. and left—I took off my apron, put on my hat and coat, and followed him for a quarter of a mile—he stopped opposite the Duchess of Kent; I passed him about 20 yards and saw him go in—I followed him in and heard him ask for 2d. worth of rum—I called for a glass of bitter ale—the prisoner put down the same florin—I spoke to the barmaid, but the prisoner did not hear that—she put the coin on the counter and said "This is bad"—he was going to take it, but I caught it from under his hand—he said "I have two penny pieces, that is all I have"—he also said he had taken the florin and wanted to get rid of it—I told him I would not let him go till they called a policeman, which was done, and I gave the prisoner in charge—he told the policeman that he had taken the bad florin and could not afford to lose it.

Cross-examined. He did not seem to have been drinking or I should not have served him.

LILLY GILL . My father keeps the Duchess of Kent public-house—on 15th April I served the prisoner with 2d. worth of rum; he gave me a florin—I told him it was bad and gave it back to him.

Cross-examined. He appeared sober or I should not have served him.

JOHN REGAN (Policeman V 40l). I was called into the Duchess of Kent and the prisoner was given into my charge—he told me that he received he coin from his employer for last week's wages and he could not afford to ose it—I asked him where he was employed, but he refused to give me his ddress—I searched him at the station and found these three other bad hillings wrapped in tissue paper in three separate pockets; these three good shillings, 3 1/2d. in bronze, and this purse—he appeared sober.

WILLIAM WEBSTER : This florin and these three shillings are bad; two of the shillings are from the same mould.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "On Thursday morning, on the act of going to work, I picked up a packet; there was a florin and three separate shillings wrapped up in blue paper. I kept them in my pocket till Saturday afternoon, so that was the time I wanted to pass the 2s. piece. I was never in a prison before in my life."

GUILTY Six Months' Imprisonment .

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-341
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

341. JOHN GRIFFIN (21) PLEADED GUILTY to embezzling, whilst employed in the Post-office, 8l., 10l., and 9l., the monies of the PostmasterGeneral. He received a good character— Five Years' Penal Servitude . And

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-342
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

342. JAMES SCOTT (18) , to four indictments for feloniously forging and stering four orders for 12s. 6d. each, with intent to defraud. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Recommended mercy by the ProsecutorFour Months' Imprisonment

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-343
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

343. JOHN SMITH (25) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. CRAUFURD and LLOYD conducted the Prosecution.

ROSALINE RIVETT . My husband keeps the Bull's Head, Crown Street,

Soho—on the 6th of April, between 10 and 11 p.m., I served the prisoner with a pot of half-and-half; he gave me a florin—I gave him 6d. and 2d.—he said "This is pretty change for a 2s. piece," and I went and got another shilling for him, and put the florin in a tumbler on the shelf, where we keep half-crowns and florins—I put it on a half-crown; I had not examined it—he drank the liquor with his two companions—they remained about ten minutes—the prisoner remained in the private compartment, and one of the others went round to another compartment, asked for some stout, and gave me a florin—I put it on top of the other, and gave him change—I went and spoke to my husband, and in consequence of what he said I fetched the glass—the prisoner and his companions could see me take it, and when I turned round they were gone—the two florins were still on top of the half-crown in the glass—my husband took them out, jumped over the bar, and went after the men, but I did not see them again—the prisoner said at the station that he had given me a sixpence, and next morning he denied giving me anything—no other money had been put into the glass before my husband took them out.

FANNY DAVEY . I was living at Mr. Rivett's—I have heard the evidence, it is correct—I went to the Coach and Horses with Mr. Rivett immediately afterwards, and saw the prisoner there—one of the men said "Holloa, what's up?"—the prisoner was given in charge; I am sure he is the same person.

WILLIAM RIVETT . I went after the men to the Coach and Horses, which is about three doors off—I had seen them in my house—I went back and fetched the last witness, who recognised the prisoner as he was leaving the house—I took him, but the others escaped—I gave the two florins to the sergeant.

JOHN SPRATLING (Policeman C 21). The prisoner was given into my custody outside the Coach and Horses—I received these two florins (produced) from Mr. Rivett—I found on the prisoner a half-crown and 6 1/2d. in bronze—he said "Ipaid for the pot of half and-half, and afterwards bought a 2d. cigar."

ADELAIDE WINSBORROW . I am the daughter of John Winsborrow, who keeps the Two Chairmen public-house—on the 18th March, about 11.30, the prisoner came in with Frederick Watts and another man; he asked me for a pot of id. half-and-half, and gave me a shilling—I gave him the change—he then ordered 3d. worth of whiskey, and gave me another shilling—I gave him the change—they both drank together—Watts ordered five times altogether in five minutes, and gave a shilling each time—I noticed that the fifth shilling was bad; the other four were still in my hand, and I found them all bad—I gave them to my father, and Watts was given in custody—the prisoner then tried to rescue him.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You did not come in by yourself—Watts has not been in the house since, that I know of.

JOHN WINSBORROW . I am the father of the last witness—on the 18th of March she gave me five bad shillings—I told Watts in the prisoner's presence that he had tendered bad money; he said that I was mistaken—I gave him in charge with the shillings.

JOHN MCGRATH . I am potman at the Two Chairmen—on the 18th of August I saw the prisoner there with Watts and another man, and saw Watts taken.

JOHN WESTWOOD (Policeman C 38). Watts was given into my custody—

the prisoner was there, and said "You shall not search him"—he tried to prevent my hand going into Watts' pocket, and he shut the door on my arm as I was leaving the house, and—Watts was outside and I inside—I would have taken the prisoner if I could—Watts was convicted at the last Session and sentenced to twelve months' imprisonment. (See Vol. 83, p. 465.) I received these five coins from Mr. Winsborrow.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These five shillings and two florins are bad.

GUILTY Eighteen Months' Imprisonment .

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-344
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

344. FRANCIS ROOK (17), was indicted for a like offence.

MR. LLOYD conducted the Prosecution.

HARRIETT VANSTON . I assist my father, a cement manufacturer, of 73, High Holborn—on 12th April about 8.30 I sold the prisoner a threepenny bottle of cement; he gave me a half-crown; Mr. Arden, who was in the shop, took hold of him and told me to bend it; I did so and gave it to Mr. Arden, and the prisoner was given in custody—he had been there the day before at 6 o'clock for a bottle of cement and given me a half-crown; I gave him the change, showed it to one of the lodgers and kept it separate—I saw "A" marked on it—I gave it to my "father about half an hour afterwards—the prisoner had also been there on 3rd April for a bottle of cement, when he gave me a half-crown, which I gave to my mother—I put it into the till first, but there was no other half-crown there—my mother showed me a bad half-crown nest day.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I knew that the first half-crown was bad when I took the second, but I took it because I was afraid of you.

MARGARET VANSTON . I am—the mother of the last witness—it is her habit to bring home to me at night the money she received in the shop—on 3rd April she brought home a bad half-crown with her takings—I gave it to my husband—he is not here, he has gone to Philadelphia.

THOMAS ARDEN . I am a pensioner from the police—on 6th April four florin and two half-crowns were shown to me at 73, High Holborn, they were all bad—I was present on the 12th when the prisoner came in and was secreted behind a partition in the shop—I shut the door and shut the prisoner in—I said to the girl "Test the half-crown"—she handed it to me and I said "It is bad"—the prisoner said "Let me go this time, I will not come any more; a gentleman gave it to me to push a truck"—I asked him where he lived, but he could not tell me—I received a half-crown on the 5th from Mr. Vanston and sealed it up with a florin and another half-crown, and they were not opened till the prisoner was in custody—his Tuesday's and Wednesday's half-crowns were not included—the constable has the one received on the 12th, it is marked "A"—I gave it to him; Harriett Vanston gave it to me.

CHARLES HARRAD (Policeman E 337). On 12th April the prisoner was given into my custody—Harriett Vanston said he had been there before—he said nothing—I found nothing on him—I received these two half-crowns from Arden—one of these is marked "A"—this other half-crown of the 12th I took possession of myself and marked it—I saw a packet of money in newspaper given up.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These three half-crowns are bad and from same mould.

Prisoner's Defence. I was never in the shop before the Wednesday, and then I had the one half-crown, which I got from a gentleman for pushing a truck.

GUILTY Twelve Months' Imprisonment .

OLD COURT—Tuesday, May 2nd, 1876.

Before Mr. Recorder,

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-345
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

345. THOMAS JONES (45), was indicted for unlawfully publishing a false and defamatory libel of and concerning Joseph Horlock Gann. To this the defendant pleaded a justification.

MESSRS. BESLEY and WARNER SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution; and


JOHN PARDON . I am a printer in Lovell's Court, Paternoster Row—I print the "Sewing Machine Chronicle" for the defendant—I printed the number of January 15th, 1876—this (produced)is the original., it is in the defendant's handwriting—I printed from 400 to 500 copies—I had nothing to do with their distribution—I delivered the whole bulk to Mr. Jones—I also printed the number of 27th March, 1876, containing a report of the proceedings at Guildhall—I can't say who supplied that MS.—I supplied the paper to Mr. Jones; about the same number of copies—I had some conversation with him about the article on 15th January; I really forget what it was—I thought it was a matter that should be pointed out to him; I felt it to be a dangerous thing—I told him we could not print it—he said he would take the responsibility—he simply said the article referred to a person once in his employ, nothing further that I remember—the words" contemptible hound "Stood originally in the MS.; those words were evidently scored out by the writer of the article, for it is in the same coloured ink; that must have been done before the conversation, or else it would have been printed—I can't say who scored out" like master like man;" that was done before the printing, certainly—this (produced)is a proof that was submitted to the defendant—these alterations are in his writing. (The libel was put in and read as follows: "There is at the present time engaged in the sewing machine trade as traveller, a man, who, having tried his hand at many callings at home and in the Colonies varied with some experience of the civil and criminal tribunals of the country, is now directing his energies to selling sewing machines. It is to be hoped that the sewing machine trade in this country may not become a refuge for the destitute, and that the trade will only care to be called upon as chiefly heretofore by gentlemen of character and ability. It certainly is not honoured by including among its members those who, having been several times helped on in life by late employers, at last gain a position by flagrant breaches of honoured trust that a thief would disdain to use, and bend their energies to maligning the character of friends. As the tongue of one of these worthies has been busy for some weeks with the reputation' of his late employer, this public warning is given to him either to learn gratitude and the wisdom of silence, or to establish his virtue and honour by having his antecedents proved in a court of law. He can do no harm to those who served him and his with kindness for thirty years, and he is worthy of the service of firms needing business so much that they engage him instead of men who would scorn to sell knowledge gained in previous employments.") The alterations were made by the defendant before our conversation, before the issue of the publication—I did not call his attention to it after the alterations had been made, I let it go to press—I happened to be away at the time it was issued—it was an application to give the name of the writer that induced me to look at the article, until then my attention had not been called to it.

Cross-examined. All I know is that when my attention was called to it, I had a conversation with him, and he said he would take whatever responsibility attached to it.

JOSEPH HORLOCK GANN . I am nearly thirty-six years of age—I have known the defendant from boyhood—my second cousin was at one time his partner, and he was with my uncle previously as servant—Jones and Gann were hosiers and outfitters, in Fenchurch Street, about sis years ago they commenced selling sewing machines in addition—I entered their service in 1874—I was their shop clerk, traveller, and collector, and I called on shippers to sell other goods, besides sewing machines, goods that he used to receive in payment for advertisements and such like—after I was in the service he received consignments of sewing machines from Johnson, Clark, & Co., of Boston, and particularly the sewing machine known as the Dolly Varden—during the latter six months I was there I called on persons in the retail trade buying sewing machines—at that time Johnson, Clark, & Co. had no place of business in London—"The Sewing Machine Chronicle "Was a publication published by the defendant, whilst I was in his service, it was published about three months before I left, it came out once a month, and was circulated amongst the retail sewing machine dealers; I received this letter dated 21st August (Saturday); on the following Monday morning, I found it in the letter-box. (Bead: "Dear Sir,—Accept this as a week's notice from me on Saturday next, the 28th, that our business connection on the present basis will terminate; if you at all see your way to any arrangement on terms that will pay you, and will submit same to me; I will give any such proposal my consideration. If you see any other way let me know how I can serve you and I will gladly do all I can to advance your interests in any direction I can; the only consideration I ask at your hands is that you consider the continuance of our business relations upon the old basis is impossible, but I expect any other proposition to emanate from you; if you have nothing to propose retain my regards and let me know how I can serve you.—Yours truly, Thomas Jones.") I carried the envelope in which that letter came, in my pocket for some time until I think I wore it out; it was destroyed in that way—it was addressed to me as "J. Horlock," up to that time I had been on perfectly friendly terms with Mr. Jones—he had made no complaints whatever in reference to my conduct; I have not had one angry word with him while I was there—I was called Horlock, because as he said the firm of Jones Gann was about being dissolved; it would be awkward, and he proposed that for a short time I should be called Horlock, and I agreed to it—it was understood to be only for two or three months—in consequence of that letter there were negotiations with reference to my remaining in the service of Mr. Jones—I said I was not a weekly servant; I was a monthly servant, and he said "Very well, say a month," and it was during that month that negotiations went on—we had arranged terms satisfactorily, except that I made it part of the arrangement that I should have six months' notice, he would not agree to that, and I said I would not stop, and I left—I left quite on friendly terms, we shook hands, there was nothing between us at all unfriendly, not a word of difference had occurred between us—I left a month from the date of that letter—about the middle of November, the same year; I entered the service of Johnson, Clark, & Co., my salary commenced from 1st November—their place of business in Queen Victoria Street, was opened about the 14th or 15th November—I had nothing whatever to do with the opening of that branch establishment,

except that it was arranged before hand that when the premises were opened I was to go there, perhaps three weeks or a month before—before I left Mr. Jones' service there were business relations continuing between him and Johnson, Clark, & Co.—I think they had not delivered machines for two months, or so before I left; I don't say they had said they would not supply any more—he had a contract to take so many a month, and not to supply anybody else in the United Kingdom—he told me that in the course of conversation; I don't know that there was any contract, there was an understanding; I did not learn from him that there was any interruption of the good terms between them—during the sis months that I called on the trade in London and that district, I had a list of all the people to call on; I did not make a special list during the last month for the purpose of using it against him; I compiled a list from the Directory at different times, for the purpose if I went into another sewing machine firm, or they would not employ me; not a list of customers, but a list of persons in that particular trade; they are not numerous, under 1,000 in the United Kingdom, I should think—I saw Mr. Jones once, between leaving his service and going to Johnson, Clark, & Co.; that was at his office; we parted them on good terms; he was complaining to me that somebody had been to his bankers, and said he had not paid his rent—he said he would not insinuate that it was me; he should not like to think such a thing—I saw him afterwards, before the libel was published—that was in Mr. Braunsbeck's office, he came in while I was there; I think that was just about the time that Johnson, Clark, & Co.'s place was opened, or a short time before—he said "How do you do?" that was all—there was no complaint or disagreement at that interview—this paper containing the libel was sent to the office of Johnson, Clark, & Co., on the Monday morning, after the Saturday; 16th January—we never bad a copy sent there before—I consulted my solicitor, I think within the next fortnight—I have been insolvent three times, once about 1862 I think, in Scotland, I was then a wine merchant, the creditors took what estate there was, and there was nothing more done, the next occasion was about ten years ago, that was at Croydon; I was there a hosier and had a shipping business in addition—I think the total debts there was something about 1,000l., principally family debts, my own relations—I gave up my property to my creditors—on the third occasion I was in business in Mark Lane, as a shipper of bonded stores, wine, spirits, and tobacco, in bond—that was about three years before the smuggling matter—the greater part of my debts then were the old Croydon debts, that I had never paid a composition upon; I paid 2s. in the pound, which was accepted by the majority of my creditors—those were the only occasions—no proceedings were ever instituted against me for any breaches of the bankruptcy law by any of my creditors—the smuggling matter was this, I was supplying ships with bonded stores, we used to ship a great quantity of brandy to America, and now and then we used to have a case landed from the ship and taken to my house for my own use, which the defendant knew, because he used to have a bottle from me occasionally and knew where I got it from; I found it was so simple that instead of letting two cases of cigars go I brought them on shore again, it was found out that they were not shipped and they traced it to me, and one evening they came to my house and arrested me, and I was convicted and fined—the defendant knew all these matters before I entered his service—I was in

prison between eight and nine months under the conviction—there has never been any imputation on my honesty by the defendant.

Cross-examined. The Custom House matter was heard before Mr. Alderman Phillips, who is now on the Bench—I was fined 248l. odd; I think the extreme penalty is three times that amount—I was not charged with concocting a bond in order to get the cigars; that was not gone into—I don't know that it was necessary to do so and that it was done; it was never attempted to be proved—I decline to answer whether it was done—I did not do it; of course I must have been interested in it—it was most decidedly done with my knowledge. (The learned counsel read what purported to be a report of the transaction.)I did not get the bond, it was got in the ordinary way by taking it out at the Custom House; no representation was made, none was required—it might have appeared on the documents that the goods were going abroad—no doubt they were documents concocted by me—I did wrong, and I have been punished for it; I was in gaol nearly nine months—during that time my family was not supported by the defendant; he may have sent something home now and then to the children—my wife was in the City; she would not take a gift herself, she was-not in want—I sold a portion of the cigars to a person in Westminster named Carter—I did not inform against him to the Customs, they found it out themselves; they compelled me to give evidence; they took me up on habeas corpus—I went to Scotland to take the benefit of the Act—I was only twenty-two years old then, and I did foolish things—I no doubt went there to avoid my London creditors; a good deal of it was my own family's matter—I can't say how much I paid, the accountants had so much—I have not, since I left the defendant, abused him and uttered reports prejudicial to his credit to different persons, only in the course of conversation explaining matters, not for the purpose of injuring him—I have not stated to customers that he would soon be done up; to the best of my belief I have not; I can't recollect saying so; I should not like to injure him by saying so—I have not said so to persons from whom I have solicited orders for my present employers; I don't recollect doing so—I never went to his books to take the names of his customers—I obtained a few addresses from an address-book, no doubt belonging to my employer—I did not obtain from that book the names and addresses of his customers, I obtained the names of persons in the sewing machine trade—it was not taken from a private book, it was a book lying about the counter anywhere, a common address-book that he would refer to for sending out circulars—I took those names and addresses for the purpose if I went-to anybody else in the trade, a list of persons to call on—I did not think there was any harm in that—no house would take me as a traveller unless I got names of persons to call on—I did not take from the address-book the names and addresses of my master's-' customers; probably they might be his customers, because they were sewing machine dealers—you could not refer to a list of persons in the trade without their being his customers—no doubt I have called upon some of those customers since I have been in my present employment—I could not help doing so, calling on the trade.

Re-examined. It was an address-book compiled by former travellers—it is quite usual, every traveller in the trade brings some addresses to the new master; they would be of no use to him without—the address-book was gradually added to when he was carrying on the trade.

By MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. I know a Mr. Ward, a canvasser in Mr.

Jones' employment—I did not tell him that I had copied the defendant's address-book, and was using it for the benefit of Johnson, Clark & Co.

By the, Jury. I could have compiled the addresses without being in the defendant's employ—I could have gone to Perry's or Stubbs' and got all the addresses in two or three days.

CHARLES RENNIE . I am the attorney and sole representative of Johnson, Clark, & Co. in London—the office in Queen Victoria Street has been open since the middle of November, 1875—I have only been their representative since October last—I have not had any conversation with. Mr. Jones in reference to the firm of Johnson, Clark & Co. since I have been their representative in London—I know why they separated their connection with him, I was privy to the separation; it was in consequence of a discovery' made by a member of the firm, who was in London in September, 1875—after that the agency was established in Queen Victoria Street—I was subpœnaed here at the last Session by the defendant's solicitor—I have had an experience of the sewing machine trade—the usual practice is to engage travellers who have had experience in the trade and who know the buyers—he usually supplies to his employers a list of probable customers, a connection of his own—Mr. Gann is still employed by our firm—it was with, my knowledge that he has taken these proceedings.

Cross-examined. I think there are not Chancery proceedings going on in consequence of our use of the Dolly Varden sewing machine; I have no knowledge of it; I believe the defendant contemplates such proceedings—I don't think a statement of claim has been served on our firm—I have contributed 10l. towards this prosecution.

The following Witnesses were called for the Defence—.

EDWARD MARRIAGE . I was in the defendant's employ—I entered his employ in the early part of 1872, and was with him in Bury Street until the fall of this year—in November, 1874,1 remember Mr. Horlock coming into the service; he came in that name—I was manager of the sewing machine department—Mr. Horlock or Mr. Gann was the shop clerk and collector; it was his duty to see all export goods properly shipped and to, time, so that no vessel sailed before the goods were shipped; to see the shipping business properly conducted and to collect the small accounts—during the time I was with the defendant I compiled a list of customers' with their addresses—that has taken years to do and cost much money to collect; it would not be possible for any person to gain that information from the "Directory"—there are considerable peculiarities about the sewing machine trade—a linen-draper, for instance, would be gtyled in an ordinary Directory as a linen-draper; there would be no mention of his having dealt in sewing machines—that address-book was kept on my office table and used by me only nearly every day—Mr. Horlock would not have access to that book in the course of his duty—I knew that Mr. Gann had been in prison for nine months, because I was there when Mrs. Gann used to come to Mr. Jones for help—she called many times—I should say I have seen her several weeks consecutively, and I was led to believe she came every week; that was during the time Mr. Gann was in prison—I gave her sums of money—it is some years ago now and I forget the amounts, but I recollect it more because I kept the petty cash, and my instructions were to put down the money I gave to Mrs. Gann as trade gifts—it was either a half-sovereign or a sovereign; I cannot recollect now—taking one time with another, I gave her a considerable sum—when Mr.

Horlock came into the defendant's employ I believe his salary was 2l. a week—I heard that notice was given to him to leave in August, last year—I was not aware that he was copying addresses from my address book or I should have taken greater precaution to see it properly locked up, but we trusted every one in the house—he has never spoken to me about the address book—he never asked my permission to use it—a Mr. Paris was a customer of the house and also a Mr. Reeves—after Mr. Gann left the employ I met him on one occasion at a luncheon bar in the City, about there weeks after he had left the service—I asked him if he was in business yet or if he had obtained a situation; he said "Yes, you know what I am doing"—I said I did not—he said "Well, you soon will know," and in a sort of threatening tone of voice he said "and Mr. Jones will soon know, too"—I am still in Mr. Jones' employ, but not in the same capacity—his trade has fallen very considerably, and in respect of persons whose names appear in that book—this (produced)is the book.

Cross-examined. I cannot pledge myself to the amount I have given Mrs. Gann, it is some time ago; but I gave her money on more than one occasion—I do not think I gave her as much as 5l.—I believe when Mr. Gann first came he was paid by salary, and soon after Mr. Jones also gave him a little commission in addition, I believe, on two distinct classes of his duties—I have not been round to the customers to ask them whether Mr. Horlock has said anything detrimental to the firm, nothing of the kind; I had been round to customers in my capacity as manager and traveller to obtain orders—I havenot made any remarks about Mr. Horlock—I have made considerable inquiries about him—I have explained that he left our house, and why—I have called—oil a Mr. Jamieson—I do not know what I said to him—I do not think I said that Horlock was a fool for his pains in taking these proceedings; I will swear I did not; or that Mr. Jones meant to crush him, or that these proceedings would be the ruin of him; nothing of the kind—I do not recollect telling Mr: Jamieson the reason why Horlock left, I told him that his business was not so satisfactory, and that Mr. Jones and he could not come to any arrangement—I-do not recollect speaking to any other customer about him—I swear that I have not been to twenty or thirty customers with reference to him—I now have the charge of Mr. Jones' business in Birmingham—I am paid by him—part of the business is carried on in the name of Thomas Jones & Ca, and part in the name of the Victoria Sewing Machine Manufacturing Company, in which Mr. Jones' also has an nterest—the company pay me, and Mr. Jones pays me in addition.

Re-examined. Mr. Gann's commission might be both upon obtaining advertisements and the sale of sewing machines, but that would only relate to a few customers in the City of London—he had no business outside—he was in the habit of signing his name "J. Horlock"—I think he also had a commission for what he could sell amongst merchants and shippers of other goods that Mr. Jones dealt in, but all within the radius—Mr. Jones mostly paid the money to Mrs. Gann—I have seen him pay her money.

WILLIAM PARIS . I am a sewing machine merchant of 66, Jackson's Road, Holloway—I know Mr. Gann or Horlock by dealing with Mr. Jones when he was in his employ, not in any other way—he called on me one day after he had left, soliciting orders for Johnson, Clark, & Co.—I have not dealt with them—I have bought goods of Thomas Jones and Co., and which, I believe, came through that company, but I am not certain—

Horlock did not tell me how he camo to leave Jones, but he said he could sell me some sewing machines called the Dolly Varden, and asked me if I wanted any; I said I did not at present; I asked him the price he could sell them at, he said 38s.—I said I never paid more than 35s. for them—he said "Well, you will not be able to get them any more, because Johnson, Clark, and Co. have taken them away from Mr. Jones—I said I believed Mr. Jones was making some others—he said "Oh, they are entirely rotten, they are no use at all, in fact, the firm—won't last long, it will soon be broken up—I said "It is very strange that you travellers in general turn round upon a good master and run down his goods, it seems a regular system of yours."

Cross-examined. I was talking to a lady when he came to my place, in the shop, not outside the door—I may have owed the defendant's firm 400l. at this time, I could not say the amount for certain—I did not ask Mr. Gann to supply me with goods from Jones and Co., I swear that—I always had an unlimited credit from Mr. Jones, he did not refuse to give me credit—I have since failed for 400l., and Mr. Jones has been appointed receiver of my estate.

Re-examined. I was subpœnaed here about three weeks ago—my estate is about to be wound up—I am still carrying on my business and doing the best I can for the estate—T was first applied to to give evidence when the summons came on at Guildhall about two months ago.

JOHN REEVES . I am an auctioneer at Ashford and deal in sewing machines I also sell furnishing ironmongery—I know the prosecutor by his calling on me and soliciting orders at the latter end of 1875—I was then a customer of the defendant's—he asked me in the first instance whether Mr. Marriage had been—I said "No, but I expect him"—he said that he had heard he had started to come to Ashford—a long conversation ensued, in the course of which he told me that I should not be able to get any more of the Dolly Varden machines from Mr. Jones, that they had only a few on the premises, and Johnson, Clark, and Co. bad refused to supply them any more, or something to that effect—he said several things that were prejudicial to Mr. Jones—I cannot recollect the exact words—he said the reason-Johnson, Clark, & Co. would not supply them with any more machines was because he had let some of his bills go back, and that they were obliged very often to add up their banking account on both sides to see which way their bills were and they could not last long; it was merely a matter of time—he solicited orders for Johnson, Clark, and Co., and I gave him orders.,

Cross-examined. I have seen Mr. Marriage since then—he told me that he believed Horlock had been in prison, but did not know the details, but it was something connected with the smuggling affair.

Re-examined. That was when Marriage called, after I had seen Horlock; it might have been a week or fourteen days after—I said something to Marriage about what Horlock had said as to his employer, and I think it was after that he gave me this account of Horlock.

JOHN BASLETT WARD . I live in Hill Street, Wal worth—I am an advertising agent—I do not know the prosecutor personally; I have met him in Bury Street and at Mr. Jones' place—after he left Mr. Jones I met him in the City—he said "You represent Mr. Jones at Leeds, don't you?"—I said I did; I took advertisements for their publication there—he said "I have left them now and I have gone in the employ of Johnson, Clark, & Co; are you doing much business for him in Leeds?"—I said "Middling"

—he said "Ishould not do much if I were you, for you will never get your money."

Gross-examined. I am still in the emyloyment of Mr. Jones—I did not tell Mr. Horlock that Marriage had told me that he (Horlock) had been in prison—Marriage did tell me so afterwards'—I never told Mr. Horlock that Marriage had said so to me—I met Mr. Horlock since—I did not on the second occasion tell him that Marriage had made that statement—I don't recollect his saying that people who lived in glass houses should not throw stones; I have not the slightest recollection of anything of the kind; I could not undertake to swear one way or the other—the conversation with Horlock took place at a ltracheon-bar; it was not a confidential conversation—he told me that he had got a list of the customers which he had taken from the book and which he had taken to Johnson, Clark, and Co., which was the cause of his going there—I said "Does Mr. Jones know that," and he said "I don't care whether he knows it or not; I would rather he did"—I have never seen the book, except in Court this morning; I know nothing about it.

Re-examined. I was under engagement to do business for Mr. Jones of 4,000l. a year—there is one thing I forgot to say, in consequence of what he told me I relaxed my efforts and did not do the amount of business I was under engagement to do, a matter of.500l. or 600l.

HARRY FORTESCUE PLETDELL . I am a sewing machine maker—I was at the Mansion House when this case was heard; subpoenaad by the prosecutor—I know Mr. Horlock—he called on me on one occasion after he had left Mr. Jones—he called to solicit orders for Johnson, Clark, and Co.—he had been in the habit of calling on me on behalf of Mr. Jones—he said a great deal about Mr. Jones—he wanted us to have the machines of Johnson, Clark, and Co., stating that Jones' were very inferior in make—he wanted us not to sell any more of his, and he said Johnson, Clark, and Co. did not mind spending a few thonsands, and they would, possibly, be able to shut him up in three months—he said nothing about any address-book—he said that Mr. Grout, a partner of Johnson, Clark, and Co., had followed Mr. Jones about in a cab.

Cross-examined. All I was asked at the police-court was whether I had Read the libel and believed it referred to Mr. Horlock the defendant was Represent there by Mr. straight he did not cross-examine me at all—I on one or two occasions since, and also Mr. Gann.

JAMES WILLIAM GANN . I am a member of the firm of Gann, Root, and Co., 171, Fenchurch-street—down to November, 1874,1 was a member of the firm of Gann, Jones, & Co.—I am the prosecutor's second cousin—I was bail for Mr. Jones—he has always treated the prisoner with rery great kindness and did everything he could to serve him—he has given his wife, pecuniary aid while he was. in prison—she repeatedly visited Mr. Jones while her husband was in prison, and Mr. Jones repeatedly relieved her—that was during the time I was in partnership with him.

Cross-examined. I did not see the amounts Mr. Jones gave her—I saw him give her a sovereign once—I knew Mr. Horlock Gann's mother intimately, she was my cousin—she deposited a bond for.100l. with me; it was in my possession about nine months—I lodged it at my bankers as security—she applied to me twice for it—she gave me a month's notice, and it the end of that month's notice we paid her the whole sum—I am still on he same intimate terms with her, partially, of course, we differ in this action.

Re-examined. The money was originally deposited with me as security for the son, she has received every farthing of the money.

By THE COURT. The bond was placed at the bank for security, nothing else; not on the system of advances, it was merely placed in the bank for security, not for me—they were Turkish bonds and they were placed in the bank to be taken care of, not to get advances upon—we paid the bank the value of the bond—we did not pay them 100l., we paid them some money which, I believe, was a slight balance in their favour.

SAMUEL ROOT . I am a hosier, tailor, and outfitter, of 171, Fenchurch Street—while the complainant was in prison I remember assistance being frequently given to his wife, and have myself given her money on several occasions and other things as well; she has had pounds to my certain knowledge, pieces of cloth for the children, and I frequently went with her to the Customs to try to do all we could for him while he was in prison, at Mr. Jones' desire—he made every effort to get the sentence remitted.

Cross-examined. When I say "pounds" I mean several sovereigns—I have frequently seen Mr. Jones pay her money, and I have done it myself; I cannot pledge myself as to how much, because I have not the book before me, but more than three or four—I knew I was coming to give evidence; I did not think it necessary to bring the book—I will pledge myself that Mr. Jones has given her as much as a 5l. note and I have given her more than 5l.—Mr. Jones was security for me—when I went into business with Root and Co., I went in on borrowed capital, and Mr. Jones was one of my securities.


NEW COURT.—Tuesday, May 2nd, 1876.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-346
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

346. GEORGE RUSSELL** (20) , PLEADED GUILTY to stealing a watch from the person of George John Luckie, after a previous conviction of felony— Seven Years' Penal Servitude .

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-347
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

347. HENRY FISHER (18) , to breaking and entering the shop of William Arnold, and stealing therein seven pencil cases and other articles his property, having been convicted of burglary in August, 1875— Twelve Months' Imprisonment . [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] And

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-348
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

348. GEORGE WRIGHT (46), and JOHN HALL (43), to breaking and entering the shop of John Brumfit, and stealing therein eleven pipes his propertyTwelve Months' Imprisonment each . [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-349
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

349. FREDERICK KENNEDY (18) , Embezzling the sums of 2l., 2l. 10s., aud 2l., the monies of Her Majesty's Postmaster-General.

MESSES. METCALFE , Q.C., and SLADE conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES THATCHER . I am an upholsterer of Queen's Place, Merton, and am a depositor in the Post-office Savings' Bank—on 30th December I made a deposit at the Wimbledon post-office of 2l.—I paid it to the prisoner to the best of my belief—he entered it in the book and went to the stamping office and gave the book to me—not receiving any communication from the head office I wrote for it.

WILLIAM MOORE . I am a carpenter of 17, Radnor Terrace, Vauxhall—on 31st December I deposited 2l. 10s. at the New Wimbledon Office—I paid it to the prisoner, handed him my book and got it back—I received no acknowledgment and wrote to the General Post-office for it.

BENJAMIN LAMBERT . I am a railway clerk of 87, Russell Street, Cambridge—on 2nd March I deposited 2l. at the New Wimbledon post-office—

I gave it to the prisoner, he initialled the book, stamped it, and gave it back to me—I got no acknowledgment from the head office and wrote for it.

WILLIAM GEORGE SPENCER . I am a chemist of New Wimbledon—the post-office is conducted at my place—the prisoner was in my employ in the post-office department—he was there in December and March—on his receiving deposits it was his duty to enter them on the savings bank sheet with the name and address of the depositor, after giving him back his book—it was his duty at the end of the day to make out the cash account, giving the totals—there is a column for the excess, if there is any—on this savings bank sheet of 31st December (produced)the only entries are one of 5l. and one of 18s., they are in the prisoner's writing—there is no entry of" Moore, 2l. 10s. on that day—nor is there any excess to account for the extra sum of 2l. 10s. received from Moore—here is no entry of Thatcher, 2l. on 30th December, or of Lambert's 2l. on 2nd March, and nothing is carried out into the total—I did not afterwards receive a written communication from the Comptroller to the Post-office about these matters—if it was sent the prisoner could obtain it by going and asking for it—Mr. Reed afterwards came down to know why I had not answered his letter; I called the prisoner in and said "Kennedy, you have been robbing me again, I shall not forgive you this time; you have been going round to the letter carrier and getting my letters and destroying them"—I told him that he had not given account of the different sums which I mentioned to him; he hung his head, and said nothing—this was Saturday April 1st—when the accounts were made out in the—evening I asked him if he would come on Monday-morning, he said "—Yes,"-but—I—never saw any more of him till he was apprehended in a Soldier's dress at Aldershot.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I knew that you destroyed the letter because it did not come to my hand.

Re-examined. I gave him no authority to open my letters, and if he had opened them he ought to have given them to me.

CHARLES HELLYAR DAVEY . I am a clerk in the Savings' Bank Department—this account would come into my list, but there is no sum from Thatcher, Lambert, or Moore in any way—in consequence of a communication from Thatcher I sent an official circular to the Wimbledon post-office on the 12th January, but got no reply—I also sent a communication about Moore, but got no reply—the papers were not returned—I then caused personal inquiry to be made.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I have looked through all the cash accounts, and have brought them here.

HENRY THOMPSON . I am head letter-carrier at New Wimbledon—there is an office for sorting letters adjoining Mr. Spencer's receiving-office—the prisoner was in the habit of coming there generally after 8 p.m. to take all official letters—that went on up to March.

MATTHEW MOORE . I am a constable attached to the Post-office—on the 16th of April I went to Aldershot, and found the prisoner in the uniform of the 16th Foot—I said "Is your name Frederick Kennedy?"—he made no answer—I repeated the question, and he said "My name is Frederick Kennedy"—I said "Ibelieve you. have enlisted in the name of Frederick Mitchell?"—he made no reply—I said "I am a police officer from the General Post-office, and am about to take you in custody for embezzling 6l. and stealing 15l., the property of your late master, Mr. Spencer, at Wimbledon; is that true?"—he paused for a moment, and said "Well, there is

one item, but it will all have to come out now"—I took him to Bow Street.

Prisoner's Defence. Six or seven months ago I entered Mr. Spencer's service as postal telegraph clerk, understanding I was to have nothing to do with the other business. I had only been there two or three days when he gave me to understand that I should have to copy certain, particulars into his book, and to write labels for medicine and other matters, which took up a great deal of my time. With reference to the omitted deposits, if the amounts had been in the till, the accounts will show so much over. When I entered his service I asked him what notice I was to take of these columns. He said "Take no notice whatever whenever we are short, and put it as balance; and when we are over, it is deducted from the cash." During the whole time I have been in his service he has caused me to falsify the accounts night after night, sometimes 16l., 18l., or 20l., being money he has had for his own purposes. I can prove that he has embezzled money himself from the Chief Commissioner, Mr. Calloway.

W. G. SPENCER (recalled). It is utterly false that the accounts were falsified under my instructions, or that I have taken money for my own purposes—there is no such case; in fact, I have a deposit in the bank.

Prisoner. You know very well that so much was put down as in the bank when it was not there.

Witness. Only when you took the 15l.—I know Mr. Calloway very well—it is not true that in December last, when he had a sum of money paid to him on account of post-office orders, he had under-estimated the amount, and that I knew it and kept the amount back—I paid him right—I gave you 18l. to deposit in the bank on the previous Thursday, and you did not do it.

Prisoner. You are a rogue, and you have put it all upon me. You have cheated customers before my face, and told me to do the same, and your own assistant in the other department can tell the same. I cannot afford counsel to speak for me, and therefore I know the case will go against me.

Re-examined. This letter (produced)is in the prisoner's writing—it is addressed to me. (Read: "Sir,—The subject broached this morning must be very painful to you, and when you have read this I trust you may not go to extreme measures, as I know I richly deserve. I am very thankful to you for overlooking the last occurrence. I must confess that for a long time I have falsified the accounts, for which I am thoroughly ashamed, adding what was deficient of the money and making it appear correct. The deficiency has been taken a little at a time, I thinking sure I could make it up, which I have been unable to do. It makes it worse when I know I am capable of doing the accounts correct. I can say no more in explanation, only that whatever appears deficient I will endeavour to repay, and throw myself on your mercy. For the sake of my father, who is dangerously ill, I beg you not to expose me this 'once, and for the future, if you should think fit to retain me, you shall never have cause to complain again. F. Kennedy."

GUILTY Five Years' Penal Servitude .

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-350
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

350. ANN CLARK (38) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. CRAUFURD and MR. LLOYD conducted the Prosecution.

MARY BRIGGS . I am the wife of James Briggs, of Grove Road, South Hackney, a dairyman—on Friday, 17th March, I served the prisoner with three penny eggs—she gave me a florin, which I put into my purse where there was no other florin and gave her the change—I afterwards gave it to

my servant who returned it next morning, and I found it was bad—I put it by itself—on Friday, the 24th, I received a bad florin from my daughter Emma—I placed it on the mantle shelf with the other, and afterwards gave them both to my husband.

MARY ANDERSON . I work for Mrs. Briggs—on 17th March, she paid me with a florin, I took it home and found it was bad—I gave it back to her next morning.

EMMA BRIGGS . I am the daughter of the first witness—on 24th-March, I served the prisoner with a loaf and three eggs, which came to 5 1/2d.—she gave me a florin—I gave her the change—a little girl came in to pay a bill and I gave her that florin from the till, and from my pocket I think two other florins—she came back shortly afterwards and I found that one of the florins was bad—I gave it to my mother that evening—the prisoner came again on 4th April, for a loaf and three eggs; I recognised her when she came in—she again gave me a florin; I saw that it was like the others, and said "You gave me a bad 2s. piece last' time"—she said "No, I don't think I did"—I called my father who gave her in custody with the three florins—I saw them marked.

JAMES JOSEPH BRIGGS . I am the father of the last—witness—on 4th April, she gave me a bad florin, and I went into the shop and accused the prisoner of being in the shop twice previously—she denied it—I bent the florin and gave her in custody—she said that she had not been in the shop for three months—my daughter gave me two other florins, and "I gave them all three to the constable.

ELIZABETH BREWER . I live at 4, How Street—the prisoner has lodged with me a little over nine—weeks in the name of Peck—there was a man there who she said was her husband, and who paid the rent as long as he was there, after which the prisoner paid it; she had the key and locked the door when she went away.

JONATHAN JENNINGS (Policeman N 247). On 4th April, I was called and took the prisoner—Mr. Briggs charged her with passing three bad florins, she said I deny it, don't be too hard upon me—Mr. Briggs gave me these three florins (produced)—the prisoner was searched at the station, and 2s., one good florin, and 5d. pence were found on her.

GEORGE CHAPMAN (Policeman N). I was at the station when the prisoner was charged—she refused to give her name and address—she gave me a key at the police-court, and told me to go to Mrs. Harvey, of Great Cambridge Street, and ask her to go and take a cat from her lodgings—I went with Mrs. Harvey, and she went to 4, How-Street, the key opened the door of the breakfast parlour at Mrs. brewer's—I searched the room, and under the bed in a small box, I found some white metal, some white lead, and a box of plaister of Paris—in another box on the table I found this, certificate (produced)—I also found a basket of carpenter's tools.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These three florins are bad, and two of them are from the same mould—this metal is such as is used in making counterfeit coin, and this is plaister of Paris.

The prisoner produced a written defence, stating that she did not know that the florin she uttered when she was given in custody was bad, and that site had not been to the shop for six months before that; that the white metal was brought home by her husband to make plumb bob, and what was stated to be plaister of Paris was bone dust, which was used for cleaning.


She was further charged with having been convicted of a like offence, when she was sentenced tothree years' imprisonment, to which she

PLEADED GUILTY**— Seven Years' Penal Servitude .

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-351
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

Related Material

351. DANIEL McCARTHY (18) and ARTHUR LEESON (19) were indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. CRAUFURD and LLOYD conducted the Prosecution, and MR. GILL

the Defence.

ROSINA TATE . I am barmaid at the Crown, Oxford Street—on the 31st March I served McCarthy with half a pint of stout and mild, which came to 1 1/2 d.—he gave me a-bad shilling; I bent it nearly double—he said that he thought it was good, and put it in his pocket—I took away the drink, and he had half a pint of porter, for—which he paid 1d.—he left, and Spooner, who was there, followed him—I was fetched to the station about ten minutes afterwards, and saw the same man I believe who tendered the shilling.

Cross-examined. I said at the station that I thought it was Leeson who came there, but on looking again I found it was McCarthy—they were both together then, but McCarthy only was at the police-court; he is one who tendered the bad shilling.

Re-examined. I believe McCarthy to be the man.

WILLIAM THOMAS . I am manager at 26, Bolsover Street—on the 31st of March I was in the Crown Tavern, and saw McCarthy there—he called for drink and gave the barmaid 1s.; she bent it up, returned it, and said "This is a bad shilling; I cannot take this"—he said "Oh, no, that is good"—he gave her 1d., drank his beer, and went away—I spoke to Sooner, who followed him—I remained till a constable fetched me and the barmaid—I then went to Bow Street, and said in McCarthy's hearing that he was the man.

GEORGE SPOONER . I am a French polisher, of Saville Street—on the 31st of March, about 3 o'clock, I was in the Crown, when McCarthy was served—I have heard what has been stated, it is correct—I followed him; he joined Leeson, and something passed between them—he was about to enter a public-house in Duke Street, but he saw me, and I fancy he recognised me, and did not go in—they turned into Great Russell Street, and I followed and spoke to Bennett, the potman, who was standing outside a public-house door—I went in and looked through the window and saw the prisoners—McCarthy went into Mrs. Lyons' shop—I went across, and as he was leaving I asked him how many more of those he had—he said "I don't know what you mean"—the potman came up, and Leeson struck him and caused him to leave go of McCarthy, who got away—Leeson struggled with me, and threw a coin down a area—an officer in plain clothes joined in the chase, and took McCarthy in Drury Lane—I then went to Tottenham Court Road station and found Leeson there—they were both charged.

Cross-examined. Leeson had left McCarthy, but, seeing me and the potman stop him, he came back.

HENBY BENNETT . I am potman at the Museum Tavern, Museum Street—on the 31st of March, about 3.30, Spooner spoke to me, and I saw the prisoners going down Museum Street—McCarthy went into a baker's shop, and as he came out Spoouer and I caught him—Leeson came up; we had a struggle and fell, McCarthy got away, and left me struggling with Leeson on the ground; a cabman came to my assistance—I saw McCarthy throw a coin down an area, where I afterwards inquired for it, and it was given to me; it was bad.

MARTHA LYON . I keep a baker's shop at 42, Museum Street—on the 31st of March, at a little after 3 o'clock, a young man, I cannot say who, came in for a 1d. bun, and gave me a bad shilling—I said "This will not do for me," and defaced it with the bread rasp—I put it down, he took it up, and two men at the door captured him—they struggled together, and I called out "Mind the window."

JAMES SMITH (Policeman E 392). I was in Oxford Street, and saw McCarthy running from Spooner, who was crying "Stop thief!"—I ran and caught him—Spooner came up and told me what he had been doing—he said that he knew nothing about it—I took him to the station, and fetched Thomas and Miss Tate, who said that she thought he was the man, but could not swear to him.

Cross-examined. He did not say that he did not pass the money, nor did he say so before the Magistrate—I said there that he said that he knew nothing about it.

HENRY WALKER (Policeman E 269). I heard a cry of "Stop thief!" and saw Spooner chasing McCarthy—I overtook him, and he said "It is no use running any further, I will go quietly with you"—I took him to Bow-Street and afterwards to Tottenham Court Road, where Leeson was.

WILLIAM LUNAN . I am a lapidary, of 25, Museum Street—on 31st of March I saw Spooner and Bennett bringing McCarthy along, and heard something fall on a grating, it sounded like coin—I examined the place and found a shilling, which I gave to Groom—I saw Leeson strike the potman as they went along two or three blows on his face, and attempt to rescue McCarthy, who got away—I and another man detained Leeson, who was outside my house, which is nearly opposite Mrs. Lyons'.

Cross-examined. I am sure that Leeson struck the potman two or three times on his face about the eye and that enabled McCarthy to get away.

HENRY GRIMES (Policeman A 113). I was on duty at the British Museum—I went up and saw Leeson lying on the ground struggling with the cabman, Bennett gave him into my custody—I took him to Tottenham Court Road, searched him, and found a shilling, three sixpences, and 111/2d., all good.'

FREDERICK GROOM (Detective Officer E). I secured this bad shilling from Lunan on 31st March.

MARTHA LYON (re-examined). This is the bad shilling I defaced with the rasp.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This 1s. is bad.


JOHN MACKINTYRE , a warder of Cold Bath Fields, stated that Leeson had been four times convicted, first as a rogue and vagabond, then for stealing a coat, again for being drunk, and lastly for an assault. Leeson stated that he wished to make a communication to the Solicitor to the Treasury, and sentence was therefore postponed .

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-352
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

352. JOHN BAXTER (36), was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. CRAUFURD and LLOYD conducted the Prosecution.

THERESA JANE RATTEY . I am barmaid at the George and Dragon, Long Acre—on 3rd April, about 11.45 at night, the prisoner came in with a woman and asked for half a quartern of rum—he put down a florin and I bent it and told him it was bad—he did not answer, I gave it to the landlord—I had seen the prisoner a week or ten days before, when he gave me a bad shilling for some gin, I bent it and gave it back to him—he then offered me

6d. and a halfpenny instead of 1 1/2d.—I gave him the 6d. back; he seemed rather confused, he was alone—he tried to escape on the 3rd, and was taken at some distance from the house.

Cross-examined. I am sure you are the man, I took particular notice of you; you had the same cap and scarf as you have now—it was a very greasy looking cap, but I know you by your face as well.

WALTER THOMAS HARE . I keep the George and Dragon—the last witness showed me a bad florin, and I saw the prisoner in front of the bar—I fetched a policeman and pointed the prisoner out to him 30 or 40 yards from the house—the woman followed to the police-court and was taken in custody.

ROBERT ARMITAGE (Policeman E 312). Mr. Hare pointed the prisoner out to me 40 or 50 yards from his house—I took him back to the house and this florin was handed to me—he said that he knew nothing about it, he took the woman into the house to treat her—I found on him 3s., a sixpence, and id., all good—he refused his address.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This florin is bad.

Prisoner's Defence. I got the money when I was at work, and the rest of the money I must have received in change.

GUILTY Six Months' Imprisonment .

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-353
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

353. WILLIAM STEWARD (21), was indicted for feloniously uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. CRAUFURD and LLOYD conducted the Prosecution; and MR. THORNE COLE the Defence.

MARY NEWTON . My husband keeps the Tudor Arms in Greece Street—on the night of 18th April the prisoner came in with a man named Jones who asked for a pint of half and half, and gave me 1s.—the prisoner asked me for a short pipe—I bit the 1s. and gave it back to them—the prisoner, left as soon as I bit the 1s., and Jones asked me for half a pint of beer—we give a pipe to anybody who comes without having drink.

Cross-examined. There may have been eight people in the house—something in the look of the 1s. caused me to bite it—I told Jones that it was bad, and after that he asked for half a pint and paid with 1d.—Steward was out of the house then.

Re-examined. They walked to the bar together I believe, but I did not see them speak to each other.

JEREMIAH CRAWLEY . I live at 38, Upper Rathbone Place—on 18th April, about 7 p.m., I was in the Tudor Arms—I saw Jones come in and the prisoner came in about a second after him—Jones gave Mrs. Newton 1s., she bit it and told him it was bad—Steward, who had asked for a pipe, then went out, and Jones left in a minute or two when he had drank his beer—I followed them; they met again, and I followed them to the Duke's Head, and watched them from a window—they went in together and the barman served Jones with beer—Mrs. Gordon went to the till and I told the potman—he communicated with his mistress—Jones paid her with 1s. and she gave him the change—they drank together—Steward asked for a short pipe—the landlady went to the till and found the 1s. was bad, and said "Go and fetch him back"—the potman went out and brought Steward back—the door was closed and they were both given in custody.

Cross-examined. I was at a coffee-shop opposite and saw Jones go into the Duke of York—I then went across and went into the public-house and made a communication to the potman—Jones was in the house six or seven

minutes before he was taken in custody, and Steward about the same time—I did not hear either of them call for anything.

ANN GORDON . My husband keeps the Duke of York, Charlotte Place—on 18th April the prisoners came in and Jones asked for a pint of id. half-and-half—he gave me a shilling, I put it in the till and gave him the change—there was no other shilling there—the instant I had served the beer Steward asked for a short pipe—Jones drank first and then offered it to Steward, saying "Drink Charley"—I received a communication, went to the till, and Steward made his way to the door—I called out "Stop him," and he was brought back—I found that the only shilling in the till was bad—they were given in custody with the shilling.

WILLIAM TIDMAN . I am potman at the Duke of York—on 18th April Crawley made a communication to me and I spoke to Mrs. Gordon—she went to the till immediately and found a bad shilling—she told me to go outside and bring Steward in and I did so—a policeman was sent for and he was given in custody—he said "Ionly went in for a short pipe, I had nothing to do with the other man."

JOHN SCOTT (Policeman E 464). I was called to Mrs. Gordon's and the prisoner and Jones were given into my custody with this shilling (produced)—Stewart said that he asked for a short pipe—Jones said "Idon't know what you are going to take me for"—he pretended to be drunk but they were both sober—I found on Jones a sixpence and id., and on the prisoner a sixpence and 5d. good.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This shilling is bad.


He was further charged with a conviction of a like offence in June, 1874, to which he


1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-354
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment

Related Material

354. WILLIAM STEWARD was again indicted with CHARLES JONES (24) , for unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

The evidence of MARY NEWTON, JEREMIAH CRAWLEY, ANN GORDON, and JOHN SCOTT was read 'over to them to which they assented.

RICHARD WELCH . I am manager at the Albion public-house, Lilly Bridge, Brompton—on 7th April, between 3 and 4 o'clock p.m., Jones came in for a pint of 4d. half-and-half and gave me a bad half-crown—I broke it in two, jumped over the counter, and said "Iwant you," as, previously to that, I had found one in the till, but I did not serve the person who passed it—he said that he had earned it—I gave him in custody with the pieces.

GEORGE LEARY (Policeman T 441). Jones was given into my custody on April 7th; brought up at Hammersmith police-court on the 8th and discharged—he gave his name Charles Turner.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This half-crown and shilling are bad.

Jones' Defence. I received' the second half-crown for pushing a truck; as to the first one, if I had known it was bad I should have got out as quick as possible, and I do not remember being in the first house, I had taken a little drink.


STEWARD— Five Years' Penal Servitude .

JONES— Twelve Months' Imprisonment .

FOURTH COURT.—Tuesday, May 2nd, 1876.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-355
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

355. MARY ELIZABETH MURRAY (25) , PLEADED GUILTY to feloniously marrying George Baker during the lifetime of her husband— Three Months' Imprisonment .

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-356
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

356. MARY SMITH (32) , Robbery with violence, together with a man and woman whose names are unknown, upon George Williams, and stealing a purse and money to the amount of 1l. 6s. 6d.

MR. KEITH FRITH conducted the Prosecution; and MR. W. SLEIGH the Defence.

GEORGE WILLIAMS . I am a master mariner, and have been living on board the ship Fox in the East India Dock—I did not leave her until 6 o'clock on the evening of the 1st April—at 10.40 that evening I was going down the East India Dock Road to go on board—the prisoner and another female came up and spoke to me, and a man came afterwards—they wanted me to treat them with a glass of ale, I declined—they said they wanted to speak to me and walked about 30 or 40 yards down the street—I heard what they had to say and felt the prisoner's hand go into my pocket—I put my hand there directly and missed my purse—I held her for two or three minutes; she bit my hand and the blood was coming through her teeth—I held her until a policeman came up—it was after 9.30 when I know I had the sovereign, and I had put a 6d. into my purse not five minutes before—I heard the prisoner say "Here's the lump."

Cross-examined. They walked before me—it was in the British Admiral where I put the 6d. into my purse—I was there about half an hour—I had some ale there—there was only the landlord there, no ladies—it was not the only public-house I was in that night—I was there until very nearly 8 o'clock, not drinking from 6 till 8 o'clock, but talking—I drank a glass of ale and that's all—I walked down the road and bought a piece of meat and some potatoes after 8 o'clock till 10.40, and saw my master—I had nothing to drink with him—the girl told me I was tearing her dress by the grip I had of her—I was not two minutes in their company before I found my purse was gone—I took hold of both the women at the same time because I was not sure which had got ray purse.

SARAH BROMLEY . I am a searcher at the Poplar police-station—I searched the prisoner on Saturday night the 1st April—there was a half-crown in the hair of her jacket; 6s. 6d. in one part of her pocket, and 1s. 6d. in another part; a little pocket underneath her drew.

PATRICK MARTIN (Policeman K 648). I was called by some people and saw the prosecutor detaining the prisoner—he charged her with stealing his purse and money—she said he had torn her dress, I said "What have you to say about the money; "She said she did not know what to say about the money—the prosecutor was sober.

Cross-examined. I asked her about the money, I did not mention the purse—the prosecutor charged her with stealing the purse—not the sovereign until he went to the station—she did not seem very excited—she complained of the man tearing her jacket.

GUILTY Eighteen Months' Imprisonment .

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-357
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

357. JOHN JOSEPH PHILLIPS (18), and THOMAS CONNELL (18) , Robbery with violence upon James Maloney, and stealing 7s. 6d.

MR. AUSTIN MLTCALFE conducted the Prosecution; and MR. C. MATHEWS

defended Phillips.

JAMES MALONEY . I live at 128, Drury Lane, and am a labourer, engaged, on the Law Courts—on the Thursday night previous to Easter, I had been paid—I Cannot say whether it was 17s. 6d. or 16s. 6d.—it was my week's;

money—on the Monday afternoon, about 5 o'clock, I was coming along Stanhope Street, and I had 7s. 6d. in my pocket—the prisoners came up to me; I can swear to Phillips, but not the other man—Phillips put his hand in my pocket and took the money—Connell had no hand in the robbery—I tried to keep hold of Phillips until a policeman came, and I received more than I could tell you, blows in the face—a hand was put over my eyes, and the other man took the money out of my pockets—I did see the man who had his baud over my eyes, they passed the money from one to the other—I received kicks and things about my face and body, and could not touch a bit of solid food for nine days—I was more fit to be in a hospital or lying in bed—I cannot say who kicked me; Phillips was beating me as well as the other—I saw a police-constable and gave him an account of what had happened—he took me to Eversley Court, where I saw Phillips, and as soon as I did I said "That is the man that robbed me, I can swear to him among a thousand."

Cross-examined. This was on Easter Monday—I had been drinking a little—I had seen the money in my pocket before I went into the last public-house; I believe I went into about two public-houses that day—I had not seen either of these men to my knowledge before; I went to my work on the next Wednesday.

WILLIAM COSTER (Policeman E 233). I saw the prosecutor on the afternoon of the 17th April,. he made a complaint to me and gave a description of a man—I went, from that, down Stanhope Street, and saw the prisoner Phillips, at the bottom of Eversley Court—when he saw me he ran up the court, into the top house and on the third landing, where I caught him—I brought him down into the road where the prosecutor was—the prosecutor spoke first and said "That is the man that robbed me."

Cross-examined. Nothing was found upon Phillips.

SUSAN WELCH . I am the wife of Michael Welch, No. 1, Eversley Court—on this afternoon I was in Eudell Street—there was a fight—I saw apparently two men fighting with the prosecutor; I recognise Phillips—I said "What a shame for two of you to be fighting with one, man, was not one enough," when they up with their fist and hit me—they said nothing.

Cross-examined. There was a crowd gathering round.

JAMES MALONEY (re-examined). I said before the Magistrate, "Connell came up and he and Phillips stood, one on each side of me, one of them took 7s. 6d. from my pocket, and there was a third man; I afterwards pointed out Connell as the person who had robbed me"—what I said before the Magistrate I say now—I stand to it.


1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-358
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

358. HENRY HOUSTON (19) , Stealing a jacket, value 5s., of Elizabeth Terry, a jacket, value 10s., of Britannia Denny, and a waterproof-cloak, value 5s., of Lucy Guerin.

MR. TICKELL conducted the Prosecution.

PHILIP SHRIVES . I am a detective officer—on 12th April, I was, at 8.30. in Carlisle Street, Soho Square—I saw the prisoner carrying this property under his arm—I stopped him; I told him I wanted him for something else—he said "What do you want me for"—I said "For what you have got here now"—I took him to the station, and on the way I told him I should further charge him with entering a house in Wardour Street—he said he knew nothing about it, and further the things were given to him by a woman to take to a wardrobe shop in Wardour Street.

ELIZABETH TERRY . I am single, and live at No. 1, Milner-Street, Chelsea—this is my jacket, it is worth 5s.; I last saw it safe at 2 o'clock in the afternoon, when I returned from dinner, and I missed it at 9 o'clock in the evening, at 45, Grove Place, Brompton.

BRITANNIA DENNY . I recognise this jacket (produced)—I last saw it safe at 7.30, at 45, Grove Place—I missed it at 9 o'clock, its value is 12s.

JOSEPH GOUGH . I live at 33, Pavilion Road; I know 45, Grove Place—I was working next door—on this evening I saw the prisoner standing on the step of that door.

Prisoner's Defence. It is false; I was not down that way at all; I was at Whitechapel.


He also PLEADLD GUILTY to being convicted at this Court on the 4th of May, 1874— Seven Years' Penal Servitude .

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-359
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

Related Material

359. ELIZABETH SPRY (25) and JOHN SPRY (29) , Stealing 2s. 8d., money of Benjamin Dolamore, master of Elizabeth Spry. Second Count—JOHN SPRY receiving the same.


MR. TICKELL conducted the Prosecution; MR. RIBTON defended John Spry.

JOHN DAVIS (City Detective). On 7th April I was employed by Mr. Dolamore to watch the prisoners—I marked about 25s., consisting of shillings and sixpences—I went into the public-house about 10.45; the male prisoner had just gone in—the female prisoner was there—John Spry remained half an hour—the two prisoners had a conversation together, which I did not hear—the male prisoner ordered a glass of ale—no change was given—he left, and I remained until a little before 12 o'clock, when he came back—the female prisoner had been away, but came in again—John Spry called for a glass of ale, and paid 6d. for it to the female prisoner—I saw her put the 6d. on the side of the till, and she gave him in change two or three pieces of silver and some coppers—he put them in his trousers' pocket—some time previously I had given Roper this shilling (produced)which is marked, to pass over the bar to the female prisoner—when the male prisoner left I followed him, and told him I was a detective officer, and said "Roper told me you gave the barmaid a 1s. and in change you received 3s. 2d."—he said "That cannot be, because I have got no money on me"—I took him to the Bishopsgate police-station, searched him, and found 6s. 8d., 2s. 2d. in coppers and is. 6d. in silver, amongst which was this marked shilling and these sixpences—I then went back to the female prisoner, and told her I should take her in custody and charge her with stealing 2s. 8d., the monies of her master, Mr. Dolamore, she made no reply—I then took her to the station, and the male prisoner, directly we got inside, said "You don't know me, do you?"—she said "No, I never saw you before, only coming to Mr. Dolamore's as a customer"—the male prisoner refused his name and address, and the female prisoner gave her address as 43, St. Peter Street, Cambridge Road, Mile End—in bringing him in the morning to the police-court he told me they were man and wife, both living at the same address.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. The man was sober at the time I took him—I have heard he has been ill ever since in prison—I do not mean to swear that he could not have paid without my seeing him—I was next to him all the time—one of the two sixpences was given to one of our sergeants' wives to purchase something—she is not here—the other marked

sixpence was given to a young man I know, who bought a small bottle, of stout; he is not called—these were found upon John Spry—that is all the marked money found upon him.

THOMAS ROPER (City Detective 925). I was employed by Mr. Dolamore, through Davis, to watch the prisoners—about 12.20 I was outside the Four Swans, and the last witness gave me this marked shilling—I went into the public-house with a police-constable in plain clothes; I called for a pint of ale, and tendered this 1s.—the female prisoner was serving in the bar—she put the 1s. in a till right opposite; it was a sort of a table, with holes in it—I saw the male prisoner there; he was engaged in buying a pair of boots off a man—I heard him order "2d. worth of gin and a glass of sherry," and he threw 1s. on the counter—the female prisoner served him, and in change gave him 3s. 2d., she dropped it into his hand.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. I say she put the 1s. in the till—I said before the Magistrate "She put it in a tray opposite the door," it is one and the same thing, it is a nest of bowls—I suppose it was put in among other silver—he received five coins in change—I was close beside him and my eyes were on him all the time—I saw where she took the money from, and she put it right into the man's hand; it was 3s. and 2d.—her hand was closed when bringing it to him, but his was open.

BENJAMIN DOLAMORE . I keep the Four Swans tavern, Bishopsgate-Street—Elizabeth Spry was in my service as barmaid; she entered it on the 22nd February last—I communicated with the police—before she entered my service I did not see John Spry, but afterwards I saw him frequently in the front bar, several times a day—on Thursday, 6th April, I watched Elizabeth Spry—she was charged on Friday the 7th—I saw her leave and followed her, she met the male prisoner, and they went to the Pavilion Theatre.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. In company with Davis I marked 25s.—Davis took care of it to pass over the counter, I have some in my bag—Davis passed 11s. over the counter—he marked the 1s. (produced) in my presence—I marked no money at all, he marked them and I examined them—the mark is in the "o"—the till is behind the counter, a nest of bowls, we keep no gold there; wo keep coppers and small silver, not large silver; half-crowns are put behind in a slip.

REBECCA DONCASTER . I am head barmaid to Mr. Dolamore—I know the male prisoner by sight quite well—I have seen him frequently—I was there when Elizabeth Spry came into the service—I had not seen John Spry before that—as a rule the female prisoner served him—I have served him, but very seldom—the price of a gin is 5d. and 6d.; an ordinary gin 2d.—the price of sherry would be id. and 6d.


The female prisoner received a good character.

A previous conviction was proved against John Spry— Judgment respited .

OLD COURT.—Wednesday, May 3rd, and Thursday 4th, 1876.

Before Mr. Justice Brett.

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-360
VerdictNot Guilty > directed; Not Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown

Related Material

360. MATTEO CARGALIS, otherwise called French Peter (36), GIOVANNI CACARIS, called Joe the Cook (21), PAROSCOS LEOSIS, called Nicolas (30), PASCALES CALUDIS, called Big Harry (33), GEORGE KAIDA, called Lips (22), CHARLES RENKEN,called Charley (27), GEORGE GREEN, called Boatswain (34), and GEORGIOS ANGELOS, called little George (19), were indicted for the wilful murder of Stanley Hatfield on the high seas within the jurisdiction of the Admiralty of England.

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL, THE SOLICITOR-GENERAL , with MESSRS. POLAND and BOWEN conducted the Prosecution: MR. SERJEANT SLEIGH with MR. MOSELEY appeared for Caludis and Kaida; MR. WOOLF for Leosis and Green; MESSRS. STRAIGHT and C. MATHEWS for Cacaris and Angelos; and MESSRS. WARNER SLEIGH and KEISCH for Renken.

CONSTANT VON HOYDONCK . I am a Belgian—I am twenty-five years of age—I joined the vessel called the Lennie at Antwerp on 22nd October last, she was a British ship, sailing under the English flag, belonging to the port of Yarmonth, in Nova Scotia—the captain's name was Stanley Hatfield, he was a French Canadian—the chief mate was Joseph Wortley, and the second mate Richard Macdonald; they were Engish man—when I joined those three officers were the officers of the ship—Henry Trousillot joined at the same time as I did, he is a Dutchman, born at Amsterdam; he is about sixteen years of age—I was the chief steward—Trousillot was the cabin boy or under steward—these (produced)are the ship's articles which I and Trousillot signed—at the time I joined there was no crew to the vessel—afterwards the eight prisoners and three other men joined the Lennie at Antwerp all together; they were brought there from London by the ship's agent, Mr. Long; they all signed the ship's articles in the presence of the English Consul, and also the agent, the captain, and me—the other three men besides the prisoners were Lettis, an Austrian, Peter Petersen, a Dane, and John Moore—when the articles were signed the captain said to the shipping master, Mr. Long, also to the English Consul "They are all foreigners and very little English they understand, and I would sooner have a boatswain on board that could talk to them, are there any of you men that can talk English," and Green was picked out to act as boatswain, he was not entered to act as boatswain, but it was arranged if he did his duty properly that he was to have boatswain's pay, and in case he could not do his duty the captain could say "You can go forwards; "He was to have 30s. a month extra—the captain appointed him boatswain, he told him to act as boatswain and officer of the ship—Green speaks English, also Greek, Italian, and Austrian, that is all that I am aware of; he might speak more languages, but I don't know—I am not quite sure of the day the men joined, I believe it was the 24th; it was on the Monday they came on board, and on the Monday we sailed—we were bound for New Orleans and Savannah—the ship was a teetotal ship, there were no spirits allowed—everything went on well at first, pretty fair—the chief mate's watch was from 12 o'clock at night till 4 in the morning; I think the men in his watch were French Peter for one, that was the name I knew him by, Big Harry, Lips, Charley Renken, Peter Petersen, and the boatswain—I could not tell you all, but that is as near as I can possibly tell—on the morning of 31st October I was in my berth in the cabin in the after part of the vessel where all the officers of the ship are—at 4.20 in the morning I heard a noise on deck, the first I heard was a rushing on deck, the same as if they were all rushing after somebody—they were putting the ship about—I heard the captain say "Tack in the sheet," and I heard him say 'Men, keep sail all, d—it you are no men, you are a lot of soldiers, you are no sailors whatever"—I heard a kicking on deck then, the same as if somebody was lying on deck kicking with his feet; that was about two seconds after I heard the captain holloaing, by my idea I thought his throat must have been cut, by the way he holloaed—Trousillot was lying in his bunk underneath me, and I said to him "Turn out Harry, and see what time it is"—he turned out out of my room and

went into the cabin and looked at the clock, and said it was 4.25—I then said "Hurry up, and make the coffee ready"—for that purpose he would have to go up the companion and up on the deck.

By THE COURT. I thought at the time that the captain's throat was being cut when I heard the holloaing—I thought there was something wrong on deck above my head; that they were ill-treating the captain.

By MR. POLAND. Trousillot went up the companion about six steps and found both doors shut, one from the starboard and one from the port side—I did not see him go up because I was in my berth dressing myself—he came back at the same moment; he only went up and came back again—he made a statement to me; he said there were two men, and they said there was plenty of time between this and 8 o'clock to make coffee—I then turned out and went to the companion myself; I went up the ladder and tried to open the doors—I opened the door a little, about 2 inches, and saw that there was a rope round the companion, which prevented their opening, and two men, Big Harry and Lips, asked me what I wanted—I said I wanted to go down to the galley—Big Harry spoke; he said "Plenty of time between this and 8 o'clock; you stop down below"—he spoke in English—8 o'clock was the usual time at which the coffee was given out—I then went into the chief mate's room, which was the nearest room to me—there was nobody there—I then went to the second mate's room, then to the next room, the boatswain's room; he was not there—I then went to the captain's state room; he was not there—I went to the captain's pillow; it was standing up in his bed; and I found there two revolvers, loaded, one with six shots and one with four—I took possession of them and put them in my pockets—I then stood on the cabin table in the after cabin and lifted the skylight up, and tried to get out there—Renken was standing at the wheel, and he called out, "Come aft, boys; the steward is coming out of the skylight"—I then closed the skylight and came down again—the after skylight was close to the wheel; about 10 feet as near as I could guess—I could see him; the light used for the compass is in the skylight, and the wheel is just at the back of it; the light is fastened to the skylight to light the compass, and the compass is just in front of the wheel—before I could get the skylight closed I heard their steps coming aft, and I went down into the cabin and told the boy to light a fire—shortly afterwards I heard five shots fired on deck; they were fired about a second after each other, as near as I could say—I heard a rush on the deck afterwards, the same as if somebody was running on deck—I could not judge which way they were running; the noise on the deck and the vessel being in ballast, you could hear as well aft as forward, and you could not say which way they did run—the shots were fired about twenty minutes after I heard the captain call out, as near as I can say—as soon as I heard the five shots I expected the men would come down for me, and I put the revolvers away in my locker; I then took it into my head to take the revolvers in my possession and chance it; if the men came down to me to do anything wrong, to save myself—I put them in my pockets, one on each side—about 5.50 Green the boatswain came down first, and French Peter, Big Harry, and all the other lot followed; the deck was left without anybody, and the wheel too—they came into the cabin; Trousillot was there as well—they did not speak at first—the first thing they did was to rub me over; they could not feel anything; I had the two revolvers on me, but they did not feel them—French Peter and Big Harry felt me over; all the others were present—

Green then said, "Well, steward, we have finished now"—I said "What the hell did you finish?"—he said, "We have finished captain, mate, and second; can you navigate?"—I said "Yes, I understand a little"—he said "We got our mind made up to go to Greece; if you like to save your own life you had better take charge of the ship and bring us to Greece. You bring us to Gibraltar, we will find Greece; you bring us there you will be right, steward. We will take the boats when we get to Greece, and take the sails and everything into the boats, and sell them ashore and divide the money between ourselves. You will have your share, the same as anybody else; the charts and sextants, and all that belongs to the navigation, you can have. Me and my cousin Johnny Moore have got a rich uncle; he will buy everything. We will scuttle the ship. My uncle is a large owner there of some ships; we will see you right, that you be master of one of those vessels"—I said "Well, men, come on deck and get them braces ready, and I hope you will all agree and also obey my orders"—the other men said' All right, steward; very good, very good, steward; you do this, you do that, steward, you do right"—that was all I could hear of them, from everybody—the conversation between me and Green was in English, and everybody standing round—he spoke to the other men in Greek, what he said in Greek I don't know—I said "Where are the bodies, where is the captain?"—Green said "Oh, they are all right, they are overboard;" and all the men said the same—nothing more passed in the cabin—we came on deck then and worked the ship, got the ship braced up, squared and put the sails she wanted on to her and sheet and tacks and everything placed, and kept her away for the Bristol Channel—I was 180 miles from Falmouth when this happened—I told them how to steer—I gave them the course and told them we were going to Greece, but I put the ship for the Bristol Channel—it was about 6.30 when I went on deck—the charts were in the captain's room—I and the captain used to prick off the. courses at dinner time, the steward most always does that, and it was from that I knew the course and judged the position of the ship—I did that day by day—when I got on deck I saw blood on the after deck, close to the cabin all over, full of blood on the poop, on the starboard side by the cabin door—I also saw on the poop a coat belonging to the captain, a pair of wooden clogs and a hat of the captain's, they were close to where the blood was—I did not examine them to notice whether there was any blood on them—I left them there, somebody took them away afterwards—I don't know what became of them—I also saw blood on the main deck on the starboard side close to the main mast, about 2 feet from it—I went forward from there to the starboard side of the forerigging, I also saw blood there, on the deck and up the rigging, about 8 feet high there were two or three spots—that was all I noticed then—the captain and the two officers where nowhere to be seen—I never saw anything of them afterwards—I had command of the ship—the deck was then washed all over, everywhere the blood was they washed it off—I did not tell them, they washed the deck of their own order, of their own command—I saw Big Harry, French Peter, Joe the Cook, Nicolas, and Petersen wash the deck, and Renken was at the wheel—the ship had her name on her and also the boats, and they cut the names off the ship and also off the boats—the ship's name was on each side of the quarter, the starboard quarter and the port quarter, and also forward on each side of the bow there was "Lennie, of Yarmouth, Nova Scotia"—the name was gilt on a

piece of wood on each side—they cut the board off—Joe the Cook, the Boatswain, Lips, and Little George did that—French Peter was also painting on the stern, painting out the name and where the vessel belonged to, and Nicolas was helping; Renken passed the paint pot over; the Boatswain made the paint, and the names were taken from the ship and the boats as I have described—after that all hands came down to the cabin to breakfast—there was a man at the wheel, but who he was when we went to breakfast I can't say; my belief is that it was Petersen, but I can't tell—Johnny Moore took charge of the key of the medicine chest and the remainder of the crew were all through the captain's, mate's, and second mate's rooms to get anything out that was of any value or any good and carried it forward to the forecastle—I only saw three of them carrying things, French Peter, Big Harry, and Lips—I also saw Big Harry wearing the captain's clothing aboard the ship, and he occupied the captain's berth and the captain's bed—until that day I was not aware that any of the prisoners had a revolver or a pistol of any kind—I saw a pistol about 10 o'clock that morning in the possession of Joe the Cook, it had a broken barrel—it was an old horse pistol with two barrels, one was broken, it was about 10 inches long—I asked him where he got it—he said it was no good—I said "You had better heave it overboard, you don't want that now"—I did not see any more of it—I don't know if he heaved it overboard or what he did with it—I saw it fifteen days afterwards when the ship was searched—it was found by one of the French officers on a shelf in the Boatswain's berth—I took charge of the ship and gave the orders, and the men obeyed me—I kept one watch and the Boatswain kept another—at 8 o'clock next morning Charley Renken was at the wheel, and he said to me "Steward, you are not going for Greece, you are going for some part of the channel, I can see it on the water"—I said "You mind your own business, I am master now, I have got charge of the ship, and I don't want to be ordered by you, if you don't keep quiet and civil I will blow your brains out, and that quick"—he was then relieved from the wheel at 10 o'clock by Petersen, and he went forward and said to the men "The steward is going to sell us, he is not going to Greece, he is going to the Channel"—all hands then came aft and Big Harry said "Where are you going"—I told them that I was going to Greece, and if they left me alone and minded their own business I would bring them to Greece—they were satisfied so far that it was my intention to go to Greece—nothing particular occurred further that day—at 11.30 I altered my course for the French coast; it was my intention to run for Brest—we reached the French coast on 4th November, the Isle de Re, about 8.30 at night; I went into the bay, it was a very misty night and very blowey, fearful weather—I saw several lights as we neared the island of Salos de Leon, the men came aft and Big Harry said "Steward what are you doing in here, you see there is land all round you, look at all the lights here"—I said ""Never you mind, I know where I am, I think it is better for us to go anchor here and he here till we get a fair wind, what is the good for you to be pulling and hauling, and killing yourselves night and day, and making no headway, because the wind is bad, we may just as well have a night's rest of it and go anchor"—French Peter said "No, we will make no anchor, we don't "want to go no anchor, we will lay the ship to and shorten her sails"—I said "All right, anything pleases me," and we shortened sail, lay to and let the ship drift about till about 5 o'clock in the morning—that night I gave the

boy Troussilot a paper to copy in French and English—this (produced) is one of them—some of these papers were written out and pat in bottles, only about half a dozen were written that night, because I had no more bottles at present; I put the paper in bottles, corked them up and threw them overboard—I have been since shown some of the bottles. (Mr. Poland proposed to read the document, Mr. Serjeant Sleigh objected, and the Court ruled that it could not be read, it not having been seen or read by any of the prisoners). On the night of 4th November, I had a conversation with Joe the Cook, as we were walking on deck keeping the watch, no one else was present—he said "Steward don't you be afraid, they won't kill you, they wont do you anything as long as you see us right to Greece, we have done enough, we have killed three, we don't want to do no more, but I am afraid they will kill the boy, because they are afraid when he comes ashore at Greece, or anywhere he will split upon them and tell the tale"—I said "I will look out for that, that he wont say nothing, it is only his first voyage at sea, leave him alone, if you do anything to the boy it will only be life for life, my life is just as sweet as the boy's, and I will take the boy's part"—afterwards French Peter and Big Harry said "All right steward, we can trust to you, you promise that he wont say nothing when he does get ashore, you look out that everything will be right, wont you steward," and I said "Yes, you leave the boy alone"—that must have been on the night of the 4th—none of the other prisoners spoke about the boy—at 5 o'clock on the morning of the 5th, the Boatswain came down and said that he had orders to tell me to take the ship out to sea again, and to leave the port as soon as we possibly could—I said "All right, but why don't you let us lie here Boatswain, let us anchor here, there is a head wind, can't you see"—he said "No, you want to sell all my countrymen, don't you"—I said "You are the only officer in the vessel and you are bound to take my part before anybody else; never mind Boatswain, you are no friend of mine"—he made no reply—I then went on deck, took charge of the vessel and brought her out again to sea—when we got away five miles from the laud I was standing on the poop, and French Peter said to me "I will have to do with you the same as I have done with the others, you-will sell us all"—I said "Well, if you think so you had better take charge yourself, I won't do no more"—then Peter Petersen took charge of the ship until the 6th—the ship was all that time running away from the port—Petersen did not change his berth when he took charge of the ship; he occupied the second mate's berth—on the evening of the 6th Big Harry came down to me, and said "Steward, will you take charge of the ship again?"—I said "No, go to Peter Petersen; he has got charge; let him finish it now, I will do no more"—then he said "Tell me where the land is lying, which way to keep for the land; I want to see the land"—I said "Peter Petersen is the captain of the vessel, go and ask him; don't come and ask me"—that same evening French Peter, Joe the Cook, Nicolas, Big Harry, Lips, and Charley Renken came down; the other five were on deck—Big Harry said "Steward, you must take charge of the ship, that fellow can't navigate"—I said "Well, I will take charge of the ship on condition that you will leave me alone and let me have my way, and I will see you right. When I see that the weather is no) worse than it is now I will go in port and lay anchor, and when there comes a fair wind I will take the ship to Gibraltar," and Big Harry made an expression to the crew that the first man that interfered with the steward he

would cut his ears off—this was said in the cabin—it was blowing fearfully from the westward at this time—I then took charge of the vessel, and put her back for the Isle de Re—that same day, the 6th, I had a conversation with the Boatswain and Joe the Cook; I asked them what they had done with the bodies—I had missed the pump that was used to wash the deck—Joe the Cook said that they had made the pump fast to the captain's body, and they made some chain fast to the chief officer, and they made six or seven iron ring bolts fast to the second officer, and heaved them overboard—Green said "Oh, never mind, don't you trouble about the bodies"—that same night Joe the Cook said "Ishot the chief mate"—I asked where he shot him—he said "In the forerigging; I am very sorry for the second mate, because he was a very good man"—I sighted land on. the following evening, the 7th; we got into the bay again—I shortened sail and let go anchor—Big Harry asked me what place it was—I told him "It is near Cadiz, and when we get a wind we shall be off Gibraltar directly"—he said "We must wait till night time; we must not pass Gibraltar in the day time; we must see and get through at night"—all hands said that—French Peter said we were to go off as soon as possible, not to lay there long, and Petersen said "You won't lay here, it is the same place again"—I ordered the anchor to be let down about 8.30 or 9 o'clock at night, and I gave them 5 fathoms of chain, to make it difficult to get the anchor up again—I made the sails fast and ordered all hands below, but one to be an anchor watch; that was Joe the Cook—he kept the first watch that night—I then got ready two dozen more of the papers, put them in bottles, and threw them overboard, about I o'clock in the night—at 5 o'clock in the morning I hoisted a flag signal "Ship in distress"—that remained up until 8 o'clock, when French Peter came aft and said "What is that flag there for?"—I told him it was to tell them ashore that we were wind bound, that nobody should come off to the ship to ask what we were lying there for—he said "Never mind wind bound; haul them flags down.—Charley Renken told me that that was the police flag, haul it down," and he went on the poop and hauled it down himself—the other men were standing at the mainmast—they went forward, and Lips came aft and asked me for some kerosine oil to unshackle the chain, to let go and get out of port, to slip the anchor chain and all—I gave him the oil, and he got a light and burnt the rust off the chain, so as to be ready to slip it—on that day a French pilot boat came off; it came within about a quarter of a mile of us—he could not come alongside, the weather was too bad—French Peter told me to go down below—I heard him tell the Boatswain if I did not stop down in the cabin he would come down and make me fast down below—he said "Ishall act as captain; I will speak to him, I can speak French enough"—the pilot boat came within speaking distance—I was below, but I could see; we have little round holes in the after cabin—I beard what took place—the French pilot asked what the vessel was lying there for—French Peter answered that the chronometer was run down and they would only lay there for a couple of days till we got a fair wind, so the pilot boat went back again—afterwards in the afternoon the pilot boat came out again, he came alongside and brought a letter written in Italian—it was put into a little tin box with a rope made fast to it and it was floated from one ship to the other—no one on board could read it—I saw it, I could see it was Italian, I knew very well what it was, but I told them I did not, it was for the pilotage—French Peter got the boy to write a letter to say

that he could not answer this bat he would come on shore in the morning and see him—he was to say it was an English vessel and to write it either in French or English—then the pilot boat went away again—French Peter then came with Big Harry and asked me what sort of a country it was, if I had been ashore there—I told him it was a republic, that there were no police, and the best was for them to go ashore and that I should stop on board for a fortnight and that I should not report anything before they were far far way and in that time, fourteen days they would have time enough to travel and be far away in the land—they did not leave that night, it was blowing fearful from the westward and raining hail stones and all sorts—they got the boat ready and made a sail and collected the captain's property, the mate's and the second's and put it in the boat and some spoons belonging to me and on the 9th, the first six prisoners left in the boat—I gave them provisions, half a ton of butter and I ton of beef—and some of them were wearing the officer's clothes—it was about 5.45 on the night of the 9th, that they left—on the morning of the 10th, I signalled again "A ship in distress" and the police flag in the fore top—a French gun boat came out—I ordered the men who remained on board to get the boat out, that was the Boatswain, Peter Peterson, Johny Moore and Green—I had to present my revolver before they got it out—I went on board the French man-of-war and they sent men to take charge of the vessel and I gave the five men in charge because I did not know who were the murderers—I went ashore and reported what had occurred so that the other six might be taken into custody—the Freach authorities towed the vessel to Rochfort, I saw it searched and saw the pistol found on a shelf in the boatswain's cabin, some knuckle dusters were found in Big Harry's bunk, a steel one and a brass one—and a wooden lance behind the boatswain's door—in the ship's articles Green is entered as an Italian—I heard him order the boy to put him down as an Italian and boatswain, he was shipped as an A B and he altered the amount of money—he also told the boy to imitate the Consul's initials—he asked to do it, I said I could not and the boy did it—the original entry is struck out and it appears as it is now.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT SLEIGH. There were sixteen hands all told; that included the captain and the two mates—there was a Done, an, Austrian, and an Italian; there was Moore, Peter Petersen, and the boy Harry Troussilot—I gave information against everyone, and I included Moore among them—we were at sea six days before this occurred, and we had beautiful weather; the wind was right out—up to the morning this occurred there had been no dispute or disagreement among the men from 4 a.m. to 9 p.m.; if anything happened afterwards I cannot say—so far as my observation went, there was perfect concord and amity among all on board—the captain was angry with the men pretty often, but I never heard him swear at them until he said. "You are not sailors, you are soldiers"—they did not do their duty; there were no sailors among the eleven, and they could not do their duty—the captain was never angry with any of them, to my recollection, up to the time this occurred—it was not very rough weather when I heard this noise, but the ship had to be put about because it was a head wind and they must put the ship on her course—when I turned in the night before the weather was fair, but the wind changed and became a head wind—I have been at sea fourteen years—for the purpose of putting the ship about, with a small crew, it is necessary to pipe all hands—the ship was 900 tons—half of the watch who were

down below were suddenly called to help those who were on board to about ship—if it had not been necessary to bout ship, the men, including Big Harry and Lips, would not have been up so early, but they were only called twenty minutes before their time; the general rule is to call them five minutes before the time to give them time to dress—they were called a quarter of an hour before their time—the first noise I—heard was the men running about the deck to get the braces and everything ready—the captain's voice appeared to be the loudest; he had a very strong voice; when he holloaed out you could hear him forwards—I heard him call out once, "D——you! you are not sailors, you are soldiers"—that was the first that I heard—there was a rushing about and a noise; I could hear the scuffling of their feet for about five minutes before the captain called out—I could only hear one voice when the captain holloaed—his was a very loud strong voice, and I could hear it distinctly—the shots were fired about twenty minutes afterwards, as near as I could say—I could hear them running round the main deck as if they were running after somebody.

Cross-examined by MR. W. SLEIGH. I swore at the police-court that I ordered the second steward to write messages for the bottles and that I stood by to see that nobody saw what the messages were—I did not stand by to see that nobody saw, because I had the ship to look after—I trusted to the boy and did not think he would go and tell anybody else—I told Captain Clipperton, the English Consul at Nantes, what had taken place on the ship—the boy who wrote the messages has never told me that Renken was by when he wrote them—I have sworn today that I was lifting up the skylight and that Renken said "Come aft, boys, the steward is getting through the skylight"—I said at the. police-court "Come up, boys"—I saw the magistrate's clerk writing down my depositions—it is very likely I said "Come aft, boys" and that they did not put it down—I know that was my meaning and I did say so—I swear that I said it—I said "Ithen went to the skylight and tried to get out, Renken was then at the wheel and he sang out 'There is the steward coming out of the skylight'"—I have sworn today that Renken, Petersen, and Big Harry were the men who washed the blood off the decks, and I have also sworn to-day that while they were washing up the blood Renken was at the wheel; you can do two things at once if you like—when they were washing the deck they wanted to get the ship on her course, and they went and washed the deck—if you look you will see that I was at the wheel—I took the wheel from Renken—I did not hear Petersen give his evidence at the police-court—I have never been in Court when any evidence has been given by any of the witnesses; I always left the Court—I swore at the police-court that all the men went into the cabin and searched the cabin—I saw them go into the cabin while I was at the wheel—when I saw them all below I went up and took the wheel—very likely I swore at the police-court that Renken said "Steward, you are not going to Gibraltar," instead of "You are not going to Greece"—I said "Never you mind where I am going, I take charge of the ship now and go where I like, and not where you like"—Renken was then relieved by Petersen, and he said "You are bound for the Channel"—I would hear what he said, I went forward to the forecastle after him—shall I explain that?—you have the galley here and the forecastle here—they did not know how to make bread, and I went to the forecastle, you can hear what is said in the galley as well as the forecastle—I stated at the police-court that I told Renken that I would blow his brains out, and if the man likes

to speak the truth he can tell you the same thing—I went on to say, "The men then came aft and French Peter then said to me, Are you bound for the Channel, steward"—I went down to the galley and French Peter said "Charley,' we are not going for Greece, but for some port in the Channel"—I heard that myself, and French Peter came and told me—I cannot swear that Renken did not see the second steward writing the messages for the police—I remember the morning of the 8th when I hoisted the signals—on the evening of the 5th I remember being in the cabin below and seeing all hands with the charts before them—they used to come down looking at the charts fifty times a day, but did not know any better for all that—I saw Renken with the chart before him, but I did not speak to him or he to me—I took the two flags of distress out of the box myself—we do not carry the signals on the chart, we have a book specially for them—that book was in my possession, nobody bad it besides me—it was not lying by the chart—Renken did not on the evening of the 5th point out to me a sixteen chequered flag and a white pennant with a white spot on it—that is the signal for "Distress; need assistance"—he saw the flag hoisted up, I hoisted it up—the flag map was not lying there, I had it in my possession—if Renken had disobeyed the orders of these mutinous men I suppose the consequence to him would have been very serious—he was one of those who were painting the ship—I did not hear the Boatswain order him to do that—Petersen did not hold the paint pot, ho brought the water to wash the deck—all that Renken did was to pass the paint pot up at the Boatswain's order.

Cross-examined by MR. STRAIGHT. Cacaris was not called Joe the Cook—almost immediately after the vessel sailed, we used to call him Joe—he never did the cooking before the captain was murdered—he was shipped as an A B, an able seaman—after the captain's death, I having to take charge of the ship, it was necessary to get somebody to do the cook's work—he was told off by the men, and he did it—I was teaching him to make bread in the galley—Little George was cook too—when Joe left the galley for two days George went into it—the men joined on 23rd October, the vessel sailed on the 25th, and on the 31st" this transaction took place—she was out at sea from 31st October to 4th November—Joe was acting as cook during that time, "but I was the cook and steward—the vessel went out on the 2nd, and did not come to land again till the 8th—I have said that Joe the Cook was taking part in the washing on the morning of the 31st—I said before the Magistrate "Five men began to wash up the blood; they were Renken, Petersen, the Austrian, French Peter, and Big Harry"—I did not mention Joe the Cook, and I will tell you why—when he got the broom to wash the deck I heard someone say "You go to the galley; "He brought the water, but he went away to make some coffee in the galley—Little George was not cutting the board off with the name on it; he had the hatchet, but passed it over to Joe the Cook—this is correct, "Green cut the ship's name off one of the boats; Little George cut the name off both sides of the forecastle head, and Joe the Cook painted out the name on the ship's stern"—Petersen helped the other men, and Lettis the same—I may have made a mistake before the Magistrate and said that the conversation was on November 4th about making fast the pump to the captain and the mooring chains to the chief mate, and the ring bolts to the second mate, and throwing the bodies overboard; very likely I did say that it was the 4th—I never told Joe the Cook that I had got the revolvers, but I did say that my life was sweet and

so on, and that I would blow his brains out; that was when he spoke about the boy—the conversation about the boy was on the 4th, at night—I saw a pistol on the 31st in the hands of Joe the Cook; it would not be of much account; it would probably hurt the person who let it off as much as the person who was fired at, but there was one good barrel in it.

By THE COURT. I heard five shots fired; there was not time between to have loaded it. They were very quick, one after the other; it must have been a revolver.

Cross-examined by MR. WOOLF. I saw very little of these men—I do not know their names now, only the nicknames they bore on board the ship—when I gave evidence in France I was asked the names of the men who came down that morning, and I could only give their nicknames—I mentioned Joe the Cook and French Peter, and if the interpreter did not put it down, that is not my fault—I could not tell the names of the men who obstructed my passage, but I knew their nicknames—I said that I knew them as Joe and Peter, and they said that that was no good—I gave their nicknames, but they would not take them—I called the Turks and Greeks all Greeks because I did not know the difference—I thought the first five prisoners were all Greeks and the Boatswain; they told mo themselves that they were all Greeks—they understood very little English, they came on board to learn—they could not understand the full command of the ship, but we had a boatswain—it was not put in the articles, but the Boatswain was to paid 30s. a month more—the men asked me for some tobacco, and I asked the captain for it—he said "Iam very sorry, tell them I have not got any, and what I have got I have to use myself"—up to the 31st the captain and men were on good terms from 4 a.m. to 9 o'clock at night—I cannot say if anything happened afterwards—when the boy came down and said that he could not get through the skylight I went up myself—the pistol shots were just fired when I tried to get up the companion the first time—I did not hear the captain say "Pull well the braces, you sons of bitches"—he said "D——you, you are no sailors, you are a lot of soldiers"—I did not hear him say "You are a b——set of lubbers," and other terms like that, and I never said anything of that sort to Captain Clipperton—I saw the Boatswain and French Peter and Big Harry and all hands come down into the cabin one after the other, the first three came down the steps, and the remainder came down together—when I was asked to take the ship to Gibraltar and the men would find Greece, all the men were in the cabin—Petersen and Lettis also asked me to take the ship to Gibraltar, they said "All right," and "All right" means that everybody is pleased—I swore before the authorities in France that three men came down and asked me to take the ship to Gibraltar, but the remainder of the men were down in the cabin listening and George Green interpreted it—I was examined in French before the Commissary of Police at Rochefort, he is a Frenchman and does not speak English; he examined me in French and he had an interpreter—he wrote a statement of my evidence in French and that was translated—I answered in French and he wrote it down and had it translated into English; it was read over to me before I signed it—I swore that they all came down, they were down, I should say, twenty minutes, and the vessel bad nobody on deck, the braces and tacks and everything were loose—the Boatswain acted as interpreter, he was the only one of the Greeks who could speak to me—he did not say "Some of the men have killed the captain and the first and second mates and they want you to

take the ship to Gibraltar;" He said "We have finished now"—after he had spoken to me he repeated something to some of the other prisoners—I did not tell the boy to set fire to the ship, if I was going to set fire to the ship I was going to set fire to myself—I did not tell him to throw some paraffine into the vessel—we have what we call a tin pot on board ship and I said to Troussilot "Idon't know what to do in case of slipping the anchor, we bad better get something to have a light and get some assistance to-night"—there was nothing of that kind on board our ship, and I told the boy there ought to be something of that kind in case they slipped the anchor at night, and we got something ready at the back of the house next to the carpenter's shop, and I put some kerosene or petroleum there—I expected to have another wind that night, and I got that ready—there were old candles and other things, and I put petroleum with it—I was very anxious to get rid of some of the crew and I advised them to go—I thought I could manage five men better than eleven—I told them that they might take the things if they did, and I gave them some spoons; I valued my life more than the spoons—when they wanted to go out again I thought of trying to go ashore, I would rather have swam for it or have died—I did not arrange to go ashore if I could with Troussilot, Petersen, and Renken; I told the boy "Me and you, when we get near the French coast, will leave," it was only us two, and the boy cried and some of the men asked him why he was crying—when I told the Boatswain he was an officer of the ship and ought to stand by me he said "If I do they will kill me"—he, did not advise me not to stand there, but to come on deck when the pilot was there, otherwise they would lock me up; he told me to stop below when the pilot came on board, otherwise they would and make me fast in the cabin—I said "They generally do as they like"—in consequence of his telling me that I. did not stop down, I came on deck—the Boatswain said that I was a fool if I came up, that French Peter would come and make me fast, but I came up—I asked the boatswain to sign a paper on 10th November, the night the men left the ship—I have not got it, I gave it to the French authorities; I kept it as a log, what time I came to port and what time everything happened; besides that log I made no note on board of anything, one log is quite sufficient on any ship—I made no note of the circumstances, I have related to-day, I could not—I said to-day that French Peter painted the name off the ship's stern and that Nicolas helped to do it—I remember saying before the Magistrate that Joe the Cook painted the name off of the ship's stern and Nicolas helped to do it; it requires two to do it, but there were four men engaged in it; it was only just to pass the paint pot and to hold the two strings of the rope—French Peter was also there to help—it was Joe the Cook who painted it out, I did not say to-day that it was French Peter—I said to-day when talking about my taking the command again "The first six prisoners came down and the other five were on deck," and I said before the Magistrate "All hands were down in the cabin and I told them I would take charge of the ship if none of them interfered?"—the six men came down and then went on deck to relieve, and the cook came out of the galley and heard the men's conversation, and I also told them; of course it was all hands then, was it not 1l. six came down first and the other five were on deck; there was a relief from the wheel and they came aft to learn whether I was going to take charge of the ship again—I say "All hands," five and six is eleven in my country—I said that Petersen made a Danish flag to make the vessel appear as a Danish vessel, and I say so still—that was when we were in the Bay,

out of the Gulf, and he hoisted it too—I said that Petersen rubbed out the log from my slate, which I tried to keep, and I say so now—I said before the Magistrate that Johnny Moore told me that Petersen took a marline spike and struck the first mate five times or so in the head, and I say the same thing now—after 31st October the Boatswain slept in his berth and Petersen and Big Harry slept in the cabin—none of those three slept in the officer's berths—I did not show the Boatswain one of the bottles I threw overboard, that I swear.

Re-examined. I kept a log on two sheets of paper—that was the paper I asked the Boatswain to sign on the night of the 10th—I had entered the dates and everything—it was when Petersen had charge of the vessel that the men were examining the chart down in the cabin—when I called Harry to go up and see what time it was, he came down and said it was 4.20, and I turned out and heard the five shots—I did not stop to dress before I went up—I went up at once.

HENRY TROUSSILOT . I am a native of Rotterdam—I was second steward on board the Lennie—it was the first time I had been to sea—on 31st October about 4 o'clock in the morning I heard plenty of noise about my head, and the steward asked me "Harry, are you awake?"—I said "Yes"—he said "It is curious that they do not come and call us this morning, I think it is past 4 o'clock, we had better turn out and see what time it is"—I turned out and went into the dining room, I mean the cabin, and it was 4.25—I went back to the steward and told him what time it was, and he told me to go to the galley and make coffee for 5 o'clock—I went up the ladder which leads to the poop and saw that both doors were closed—I tried to open them and somebody outside asked me who it was—I said "the second steward"—he asked me what I wanted—I said that I wanted to go to the galley to make coffee for 5 o'clock, and the man said "There is time between this and 8 o'clock to go to the galley and make coffee—coffee was always made at 5 o'clock for the watch and breakfast was at 8 o'clock for all hands—the man spoke in English but I do not know who it was—I went back and told the steward what had passed, and he turned out and went up himself—I then went up the half of the ladder and the steward tried to open the door; they asked him who it was, first he said "The captain;" they said "It can't be the captain;" He said "Well, then, it is the steward"—they asked him what he wanted—he said that he wanted to go to the galley to make coffee for 5 o'clock—they, answered him "There is time enough between this and 8 o'clock"—I saw him try to open the door, but he could not because it was closed—the noise I heard on deck when I awoke was still continuing; it was a shuffling on deck and on the poop also—the steward and I went back to the dining room and he ordered me to light the fire in the dining room, I did so; in the mean time he went to the officers' rooms to see if he could find anybody, and when he had been in every room of the officers he came back and showed me some papers which he said he was going to put in his bag—we then sat down, and at about 5.30 or 5.45, I cannot say exactly the time, we heard five or six shots on deck—the noise was still going on—it was, I think, more than an hour after I went up—those were the only shots I heard that morning—the steward tried to get both doors off the companion—I did not see him lift up or look through the skylight over the table—he never showed me any pistols—about 6 o'clock some of the men came down, I cannot exactly say which, but French Peter, Big Harry, Joe the Cook, Johnny Moore, and

Lewis or Nicolas; that is all as far as I can remember—the Boatswain was one of them—I do not remember whether there were any more or not—I heard the Boatswain say to the steward "We have finished it now," and they said "We have killed the captain and the mate and the second mate and heaved them overboard"—the Boatswain said that in English—the other men were all there at the time the Boatswain was speaking to the steward, and they ran from one of the officer's room to another—I heard the Boatswain say "Ask the steward whether he can navigate"—before that all the men had run from one officer's room to another, speaking Greek and laughing—the steward said that he would navigate her—I first went on deck after 6 o'clock—I did not take notice of anyone on deck—I saw plenty of blood on the main deck and on the poop, but nowhere else—I did not see anybody do anything on deck, but I lit a fire and then looked out of the galley and saw some of the men washing the deck, but was not able to see who they were—I did not take notice who was at the wheel—we had breakfast at 8 o'clock, and after breakfast I saw men going outside the vessel to cut the name out of the ship—I cannot state who those men were, I did not notice—the steward took charge of the ship before breakfast, and after that 'the steward ordered me to go to the galley—I remember the ship arriving at the land—I wrote on a paper something by the steward's direction; that was my first writing—I wrote the papers in my own room—Renken came into the room and saw me writing them, he wanted me for the' galley—he asked me what I was doing—I told him I should tell him what I was doing if I should have confidence in him that he should not tell anybody else—he said that he would not tell anybody what I was going to tell him, and then I told him I was going to make some bills out and put them' in bottles and throw them overboard for to come to our assistance—I Showed him some of the bills, and when I had finished I went up to the galley—he did not read them; I told him what I wrote and went with him up to the galley—he said that he would keep it quiet.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT SLEIGH.; The noise overhead awoke me, it was a very considerable noise, and I thought they were putting the ship about; it was a noise of shuffling, like men moving about the deck—I did not hear much voice—I did hear some voice, but I could not tell whose voice it was or how many voices there were—when I turned in the night before it was fair weather—when I got on deck I found it was blowing hard; it was dark.

Cross-examined by MR. W. SLEIGH. Renken did not disclose "what these papers were, as far as I know; they were papers asking the police to come to our assistance and I told him—so.

Cross-examined by MR. WOOLF. The Boatswain spoke English to the steward at 6 o'clock, and then he translated and spoke to the men in Greek—after we had made the land the steward 'told me that had made a conversation with Renken, Petersen, Johnny Moore, and the Boatswain, to leave the ship as soon as they had a chance—the shots were not fired till after I went up the companion, I am sure of that, and I said so when I gave my evidence in France, and I said that I awoke about 4 o'clock—I am positive that it was about 4 o'clock when I awoke, and also as to the time the shots were fired.

Re-examined. I did not hear any voice on deck when I was down below—when I went up I was not allowed to go on deck, I was frightened that something was happening.

GUISEPPE LETTIS . I am a native of Austria, and am twenty-two years old—I have been at sea about seven years—in October last I was engaged in London to go to Antwerp to join the Lennie—I had sailed in four or five English ships—before that—I went from London with the prisoners and Petersen and Johnny Moore—I had never seen Petersen before—I signed the ship's articles at a tallow shop at Antwerp—after the vessel sailed I was in the first mate's watch, which was from 12 o'clock at night—to 4 am.—the Boatswain, Young George, Charley Renken, Lips, and Johnny Moore, a sick man, were in the first mate's watch—on 31st October Johnny Moore was in his bunk ill, and the rest of us kept that watch—Some time in the morning the second mate's watch came on deck—I called them to put the ship about 3:30 and the captain came on deck—the first mate ordered the watch to be called; he was right forwards and the second mate was aft on the bridge—Lips was at the wheel—six of the other sailors were in the main braces, and the others were forward, five Greeks and me—the five Greeks were Great Harry, Nico as, Johnny Moore, Joe the Cook, and myself—French Peter was at the main brace along with me—the captain said, "Bout ship, main topsail all," and he said to me "Haul away the main braces, you sons of bitches, sons of whores"—I was on the poop behind Big Harry, who took a knife out of the sheath and at the time the captain was looking on one side Big Harry jumped on the captain and put the knife his stomach and stabbed him—after that the captain went right round the poop backwards and Big Harry was after him with the knife., and French Peter, who was on the other side of the poop, stopped the captain, and put a knife into him right in front of his head here (on the forehead), and then struck him in the side with the knife—Big Harry then caught hold of the captain, lifted him up and heaved him down on the deck—I did not see any blood then, but there was plenty of blood on the poop in the morning—I saw them take the captain's boots off and his cap—when French Peter struck the captain the others were all on the after deck on the poop—the other sailor did not touch the captain not more than four—when this occurred the second mate was on the bridge standing by the main braces—when the captain was struck the second mate came to the captain, who was still alive, and tried to take him down into the cabin but Big Harry put his knife two-times through second mate had not said anything before that, but he had jumped off the bridge into the main deck—when the second mate had the knife put into him twice he ran forwards and put his hands on the Boatswain's shoulder, who said "Who is that jumping on the top of me"—I don't know what happened after the second mate went forward but all the five Greeks went on the main deck, French Peter, Nicolas, Lips, Joe the Cook, and Young George, who was like me looking on, but nothing else—the Boatswain then went forward, and the second mate put his hands on his neck and said "Boatswain, save my life," but the Boatswain shoved him right away off and Big Harry, who had got a knife in his hand put his knife three times into, the back of his neck, and the second mate went down very near dead, and somebody took off his boots and his cap—Nicolas had put a rope on the cabin doors just at the time the captain was struck—after the second mate was down, and His boots were taken off, the five men braced the foreyards sharp up—I cannot say who gave the order for that; it was the Boatswain, I think, but I cannot say, because it was spoken in Greek—the chief mate was then on the middle of the fore-yard, and he sat down—Joe the Cook had a broken revolver belonging to

him, and he went with Lips, who said to Joe the Cook "Go up the rigging and fire at the mate"—Joe said "Idon't want to go," and he said "Give me the revolver, and I will go up and fire at the man"—Joe would not go up, he was frightened—Joe gave Lips the revolver, and he said "Look out which way you fire it, for it is broken"—Lips said "All right, I know which way to fire it"—I do not know whether Joe had fired it himself before he gave it to Lips—Lips then went up the fore-rigging and fired at the chief mate, who was on the foreyard, two times, and then two times again, and the last two times went through the mate—I heard the mate say "Ah! ah!" both times, and he lowered himself by the main buttling right down on deck—when he came down Joe the Cook was very close behind him with a knife about a foot long in his hand, and he put the knife right through the first mate; he kept putting it in and taking it out several times all over his body, everywhere—he kept stabbing him—it was dark, and I did not see any blood—the mate fell on the deck, and about five minutes after that Big Harry and French Peter came forward—French. Peter talked in Greek, and took a knife out; he put his two legs on the first mate's stomach and nearly cut his head off—Big Harry was then behind French Peter—I saw Lips come out of the rigging, and all were across the first mate—the same five, French Peter, Joe the Cook, Nicolas, Lips, and Big Harry got a long chain, which they made fast to the chief mate's legs and heaved him overboard—the second mate was then dying on the port side of the main deck, and they got a cat block, and three of them threw him overboard while the others stood looking—I did not see what was done with the captain—it must have been Charley Renken who was at the wheel then, because I left him at the wheel—I had not heard any orders given at that time as to who was to go to the wheel—I did not see Petersen and Renken go into the coal locker, but I saw them come out after the second mate and the captain were dead, and while the first mate was alive in the foreyard—they came out because the boatswain called out twice, and the second time I saw them come out—I saw the men go below into the cabin, and Petersen was told to go to the look-out, and Charley Renken to go the wheel—after the bodies bad been thrown over everyone went down in the cabin to take coffee—I had not been down before that—I relieved Renken at the wheel about 6 a.m.; it was just daylight, and I then saw blood all about the main deck, and the poop and the foreyards too—about three days before that I heard French Peter, Joe the Cook, Nicolas, Big Harry, and Young George too, I think, talking Greek—I don't understand much Greek; I know when they curse and swear in Greek, and I understand the word capitaine—on the Saturday night Joe the Cook said to me "Go and gallymount the three officers," and on Sunday night he said "Go and kill the captain and the two officers"—there was no pistol on board the ship, only a revolver, and that was broken; it had no bar, it had six chambers, but only one barrel.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT SLEIGH. I did not go away in the boat with the other men; I stayed on board—a policeman came on board and took me in custody, and they sent me to prison—I heard Von Hoydonck speak in French to the French officers, and directly after that I was given in custody with the other men—I was on deck and called up the second watch, that was because the wind suddenly changed, and the weather became rough, it blew the ship round, it was a head wind—if it had not been for that the second watch should not have come before 4 o'clock—the captain was on check about three minutes before the men of the second

watch—he said to them first "Haul away those braces," and the second time he said "Haul away the main braces, sons of bitches, sons of whores "—I was behind the cuddy when I saw Big' Harry strike the captain—this was a three masted ship and I was forwards, an able seaman—I was behind the poop when the captain was struck—I did not see the captain strike anybody before Big Harry struck him—this was a Sunday morning—the captain swore at the men everyday, but I only once saw him sirike anyone and that was Lips—he shoved Lips and he fell down—that was four days after leaving London; I never saw any altercation between the captain and the men before that morning—the crew were generally well behaved up to this time, hard working men doing there duty, there is "Plenty of work on board a ship—there were only sixteen of us; she was a big ship and there were only eleven forwards—nothing occurred till' the captain said "Haul away the main braces"—I did not hear him call them soldiers instead of sailors—there was no quarrel and no fight—Lips only speaks Greek, and a very little Italian—he is a Greek—I do not' speak Greek; I speak all Italian—when Be spoke about the pistol he, was speaking Greek—I am an Austrian, and came from Funen—I speak very well, Italian, but better English—I speak Illyric—if anybody talks to me in Greek I cannot understand—I have not said that Renken was at the wheel when the captain was struck—Lips was at the wheel and he ran away from the wheel when the captain was struck; he let it alone—the captain was about five yards from the wheel When he was struck by Big Harry—he never fell down, he ran right round the poop—Lips left the wheel before the captain was struck—I had seen the revolver before, and knew that, it was Joe's, but I first saw it in Joe's hands on that morning, and he held it in the way a man would who was going to use it—Green, the boatswain, was then at some other part of the deck—I saw Joe 'the Cook offer Lips the revolver, and heard him say "You go and shoot the mate"—he forced Lip's to take the revolver in his hand, and I saw Lips go forward with the revolver after the mate, Joe the cook following—the mate went up the foremast, and' Joe and Lips were then in the middle of the ship—Joe-stood on the deck while Lips went up the rigging, the mate had gone up 'a long" time before—they spoke in Greek, but I understood what they meant—I certainly-told the Magistrate that Lips asked for the revolver to go and shoot the mate—I did not say before the Magistrate "I could not see if the shots hit the mate"—the mate went "Ah! ah!" four times.

Cross-examined by MR. W. SLEIGH. I said at the second-examination "The bodies had not been thrown overboard when Petersen and Charley Renken came out of the coal bunk," and I said On the last examination "Petersen and Charley Renken came out afterwards," that is quite' true—the boatswain told me and Petersen in France that they meant to get the ship to Greece and kill Renken and everyone of the seven men—the Greeks were to be left and everyone else was to be killed.

Cross-examined by MR. WOOLF. The first five were the men who were going to do that; I cannot say six—this was in a French prison—there was not much wind on the morning of 31st October, but it was raining; it was not very rough weather, but it was very dark—the captain said "Pull the braces, and main top the whole," but he did not call them bad names—I did not see the knife that French Peter put into the captain's head, because it was dark and I was a long way from him; I saw the blow struck, but I could not sec exactly what he had in his hand—1 did not hear

anyone tell Nicolas to put the rope round the door, but I saw Nicolas make fast the door, and he stood on the starboard side of the door—the captain had just been struck then—when the second mate asked the boatswain to save his life he had already been struck twice by Big Harry—Big Harry was not close by when the second mate said that, nor were any of the other prisoners; they were on the poop—I said at the police-court" The boatswain and the first five prisoners were on the main deck, and the boatswain shoved him away"—I never heard the boatswain speak, or say "Ican't save your life"—the boatswain did not go down the main hatch immediately after the second mate said that to him—all the time that the captain and the two mates were being struck I was looking on and seeing how they were killing them—it was the first time I had ever seen anything of the sort; it was the first time I had ever seen a man killed in my life, and I thought I should like to see it—I went forward because I wanted to see what they were going to do to the first mate.

PETER PETERSEN . I am a Dane—I can speak a little English, not much—I was on board the Lennie in the second mate's watch—the first mate's watch is from 12 to 4 o'clock, and the second mate's watch is below—we were called up to 'bout ship between 3 and 1 o'clock, I went on deck; the captain was then standing with the mate and the second mate and the boatswain looking to see that we were all there and he sent each man to his work—I was on the poop and he sent me forward to the gib sheet and Charley Renken was sent forward to look out—the captain called out "Bout ship" and we eased off the first sheet, we were going half way round and all the sheet was back and the ship would not go round—I did not hear the captain say anything, my attention had not been called to what was going on in the other part of the ship and nothing had attracted my attention—the chief mate was forward with me, he had not made any observation to me—the ship would not go round; the chief mate said to me "By God Peter what is the matter?"—I said "Idon't know"—he called the boatswain and asked him; he said "Idon't know" and he told the boatswain to go aft and see what was the matter—the, boatswain then went aft and came back and said "There is murder aft and everybody will have to look after himself"—the boatswain went midships again, the chief mate went up in the rigging and me and Charley Renken went into the coal locker—Joe the Cook then came forward with a revolver in his hand and asked me and Renken "Who is that up in the rigging "we said that we did not know, and then he went away saying "Greek, Greek, Greek," three times, and shot at him each time—I am not sure whether there were three or four shots—the mate went higher up the rigging—Joe the Cook said to me and Renken, "Don't you two be frightened, we won't kill you"—I saw nothing of what happened between Joe the Cook and the mate; that was the last I saw of them—the mate was still up in the rigging—I stayed in the coal bunk about ten minutes and then the Boatswain sang out for Peter and Charley—I did not go out the first time he called but I did the second, and we went amidships and saw the Boatswain and Big Harry—Big Harry wanted to get in to the car penter's shop but he had no key and he could not get the door off—he told me to go and bring him a marline spike—I do not know where the mate was then—the boatswain was waiting outside—I went and got the marline spike and gave it to Big Harry, who broke open the door of the carpenter's shop with it and took out a little pump which was used to wash the deck with—he then told Renken to go and take the wheel, and Renken

went aft and took the wheel, and the boatswain told me to go forward and keep a look out—I went forward and saw nobody there,' but I saw the first mate sitting on top of the foreyard—I saw nobody else then, but in ten minutes I saw some other man, not the mate, going up in the rigging, but it was too dark to see who it was—I did not see him do anything before he got to the middle of the rigging, and then I heard that he was shooting—I believe I heard four shots, but I am not sure—I think that was twenty minutes after Joe the Cook had shot at him—I do not know whether the shots took effect on the mate, but he came down at the same time while he was shooting at him, and he said "Oh!; oh!"—the mate came down hand over hand, and somebody who was there held him down on the deck, but I cannot say what he was doing to him—I saw that there were a lot of people on to him, but I do not know who they were—I do not know of my own knowledge who the main was who went up into the rigging after the mate—I did not see him come down—I remained on the forecastle—I saw Big Harry, French Peter, and Nicolas washing the ship—I saw a little blood, but not much—I saw the first mate thrown overboard—I cannot say who threw him pverboard, and I am not sure that it was him, but I saw somebody hauled overboard and heard a fall in the water—at about 7.30 Little George came and told me to have; my coffee and I went and had it, and when I came on deck again I saw morer blood, but not much, and Big Harry told me to take a broom and. clean it—I saw Joe the Cook and Lips cutting the name off the shjp—I did not hear anybody give the order for that—it was before breakfast—I saw the boatswain take the name off the boats, and heard him order them to do it, and I saw Joe the Cook and French Peter painting the name off the stern; when it was finished the men had breakfast—I was steering the ship for about two days; the boatswain came to me, and said "Peter, you must take charge of the ship"—I said, "No, I cannot take charge of the ship," and he went and told the five Greeks, and came back and said "You must take charge of the ship," and I took charge two days I gave up the charge because we came to French land, and they found out that it was not Gibraltar—French Peter came to me and said "You keep yourself quet, and don't say anything about it; I will speak to you by-and-bye," and he shoved me from the wheel and put the steward at the wheel—I saw the men leave the ship—I saw a revolver in Joe the Cook's hands before 31st October; and Renken was looking at it.

Cross-examined by MR. W. SLEIGH. Renken and I ran into the coal bunk because we were frightened for our lives—I did not go down into the cabin before I went to get my coffee—when I went into the cabin I saw the boy Troussilot and Jonny Moore—after I got into the cabin Renken came in—I was relieved by Angelos—I did not see the Austrian go the wheel to relieve Renken, but I heard from Renkeri that he had been relieved at the wheel by the Austrian—Kenken was told to hold the paint pot first and after that I was told to hold it—the steward, Renken, myself, and the boy agreed to leave the ship if we possibly could; we tried to do it three or four times, but we could not get any chance, because the five Greeks were looking after us.

Cross-examined by MR. STRAIGHT. The coal-bunk is about 18 feet from the main rigging; it is in the middle of the ship on the starboard side—it is on the deck, you do not go down any steps—I heard Little George say as they were going away in the boat "Idon't like to go, but they: have

asked me"—I did not make a statement at Rochefort—the French Commissaire asked me questions—I told nobody in the prison in England what I have told you to-day—I was examined in the presence of a policeman.

Cross-examined by MR. WOOLF. The Boatswain was among those who intended to leave the vessel with me and Renken—on the night the men left the vessel the Boatswain said to me "Peter, I am afraid those men will come-back—the Boatwain told me that he second mate had asked him to save his life, and that he said "Ican't save your life" and then went down the hatch—when I took the command of the vessel the Boatswain acted as interpreter to the Turks or the Greeks, and then he spoke to me—I came up to put the ship about between 3 and 4 o'clock——I never saw the captain or second mate after I left the poop—when I left the poop the Boatswain was not forwards, he was standing at the first sheet, I think—Renken, the Boatswain, and I went for ards.

Thursday, May 4th.

MARIE BIRARTOT (interpreted). I am the wife of Jacques Birartot, of Le Harriette, in the Department of La Vendee—On the 9th November last six of the prisoners came to me, the furthest one (Cargalis) said they were sailors and they bad been shipwrecked—they remained there till about 6 o'clock in the evening, three of them then went away, the rest remained during the night—next day the Garde Maritime came to the house—I did not hear what passed—before they left Cargalis gave me this photograph (produced)and these three stones—I afterwards gave them up to the Garde Maritime.

NATHANIEL DRUSCOVITCH . I am chief inspector of the detective force at Scotland Yard—on 31st December last I received a warrant from Bow Street against eleven persons for murder on the High Seas—I was with Superintendent Williamson at Calais when the eleven persons then in custody were handed over to us—the prisoners are some of them—the French authorities handed me five sealed packages which I produce, they are all marked and sealed by the French authorities and the British Cousul.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT SLEIGH. The names of the three persons who were in custody and are not now charged are Guiseppe Lettis, Peter Petersen, and John Salvos Mores.

Cross-examined by MR. W. SLEIGH. Renken made a statement to me on board the boat coming over—he also made another statement to the Treasury solicitor at the House of Detention—I took a note at the time of the statement he made to me on board the boat, and I have it here—he said he had acted as he did act under terror of the Greek sailors.

HEINRICH VON HOYDONCK (re-examined). The photograph produced was in the captain's album, and these stones belonged to him—I have looked at the contents of these five bags. (Mr. Woolf objected to the contents of the bags being given in evidence, as they were not traced to the prisoners. The Court considered the objection good, the contents of the bags not being traced to the prisoners.

MR. WARNER SLEIGH submitted that there was no case against Renken on the charge of murder; he was not charged as an accessory after the fact and could not be convicted of thai offence under the Extradition Treaty, by which it was provided that a prisoner could only be charged with the crime for which he was extracted. THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL concurred in that view, and as the evidence against Renken was hardly such as to justify his conviction he with drew the case against him . MR. WOOLF and MR. STRAIGHT submitted that as to Leosis, Green. Carcaris, and Angelas the evidence was not sufficient to go to the Jury, THE COURT, however, ruled that as to them there was evidence for the consideration of the Jury.



THE COURT awarded the sum of 50l. to the steward, Von Hoyconck, for his courageous conduct.

NEW COURT.—Wednesday, April 3rd, 1876

Before Mr. Baron Amphlett.

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-361
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

361. LEON HENDY (55) , Feloniously shooting at Robert Richter with intent to murder him. Second Count—with indent to do him some grievous bodily harm.

MR. GILL conducted the Prosecution, and MR. M. WILLIAMS the Defence.

ROBERT RICHTER . I am a tailor of 17, Oxendon Street—on Monday, 17th April, about 9.30 pm, I was returning home with my wife, and when we got to our own door the prisoner, who I knew, came in front of us; he then went three steps behind us and fired a pistol on my left side—we had not spoken to him, nor he to us—he could have touched me with his hand when he fired the pistol—I had the gudpowder in my face at first and could not see, but when: I. wiped my eyes he was walking away fast—I called Police;" and he was stopped by two gentleman and taken in custody—when I saw him first I did not see the revolver; he had his hand in his pocket—I think he has the same coat on now—I had a mark on my face at the time, but I have not got it now—I have known him three and a half or four years.

Cross-examined. I did not see the pistol till he was in custody—it was a revolver; I saw it at the station—the other chambers were loaded.

EMILY RICHTER . I am the wife of the last witness—I left home with him on Easter Monday, and when we got back, close to our own door, I saw the prisoner not many steps from us—I did not hear him speak or see the revolver, but he fired it on my left side—he stood still for a moment, and then walked quietly away—my husband called "Police and the prisoner was stopped.

JOSEPH LLOYD . I am a draper, of 16, Whitcombe Street—on 17th April, about 9 o'clock I was at the corner of James Street and heard the report of a pistol—I saw a man walking very rapidly round the corner—I collared him at the corner of Whitcombe Street, and a policeman came up and took him.

CHARLES AUSTIN . On 17th April, about 9 pm, I was standing at my door and heard the report of a, pistol, ran to the corner of Whitcombe Street and James Street and saw the prisoner coming towards me, not fast with a revolver in his left hand—seeing that it was a formidable weapon I took it from him, and afterwards Mr. Lloyd held him—I did not hear him say anything—I know the prosecutor's house, the prisoner was coming from there.

JOHN ROBINSON . (Policeman C 86). On 17th April I saw a crowd, went up, and Mr. Lloyd said that the prisoner had shot at a man—I told him the charge; he said "Iam perfectly innocent, I have not had his blood"—I took him to the station, and Mr. Lloyd gave me this revolver; it has five barrels; I found four of them loaded, and this shell in the fifth—I saw marks on the prosecutor's face, as though done with gunpowder; and it was rather inclined to bleed—the prisoner was as calm as he is now.

ROBERT RICHTER (re-examined). I have known the prisoner three or four years—I have had no quarrel with him.

GUILTY on the Second Count .

The Prisoner, in mitigation of his sentence, stated that the prosecutrix had lived with him eight years as his mistress, and had four children by him, but eloped with the prosecutor and married him; that he had been rat shooting in Putney with the pistol on Easter Sunday, and on Easter Monday put on a coat not knowing that the revolver remained in the pocket, and that, having taken too much drink, when he met the prosecutor he took out the revolver and fired it towards the sky, but was so frightened at the explosion that he stood perfectly still and did not know what he was doing— Five Years' Penal Servitude .

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-362
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

362. CHARLES NICHOLAS JONES (18) , Rape on Eliza Ann Jones.

MR. GILL conducted the Prosecution.

GUILTY Ten Years' Penal Servitude .

FOURTH COURT.—Wednesday, May 3rd, 1876.

Before Mr. Recorder.

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-363
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

363. JOHN D'AETH. (41) , Unlawfully obtaining 40l. from Alfred Clark by false pretences. Second, Count—for conspiring with one George Reed and others, to defraud Alfred Clark and others, of divers of their monies.

MR. HORACE AVORY conducted the Prosecution; and MR. C. MATHEWS

the Defence.

MICHAEL CRIGHTON . I am a, clerk in the Joint Stock Registrar's Office—I produce the memorandum of articles of association of the Permanent. Life, Fire, "Insurance, and Loan Company, Limited, incorporated on 23rd July, 1867, with a capital of 100,000l.; 10,000 shares of 5l. each, and 10,000 of 1l. each—the first return was filed on 2nd of September, 1872—returns were then filed for 1868, 1869, 1870, and 1872—the one for 1868 is signed by John Stanley Piccard, general manager, 1869. by the. same person, 1870 by the same person, 1871 the same, 1872 John D'Aeth,. General manager—the returns are all signed by John Stanley Piccard, but there is a notice of the situation of registered office—it is dated the 10th October, 1872—there was a return filed for. 1873, and the paid up capital was 230l. 1s. 6d., also for, 1874, 230l., 4s. 6d., these are signed by John D'Aeth, general manager—there is no return filed since 1874—the last notice is one of the removal of registered office, dated 7th January, 1876—that is giving notice of change of address—it is filed and signed by John D'Aeth—on 17th March, 1873, there was an agreement filed, between John D'Aeth, of the one part and the company of the other. (It was put in and read and referred to the duties of John D'Aeth, as general manager).

Cross-examined. The return for 1873, was filed on 12th November, 1875, and for 1874, on the same day—the last agreement was filed on 17th March, 1873—the new address was 301, Strand.

ALFRED CLARK . I reside at Great Bland Street, Great Dover Street—I am a collector—in October, 1875,. I saw an advertisement in the "Daily Telegraph" (produced)—in consequence of which I wrote a letter and received one in reply—in consequence I came to London and went to No. 1, Cecil Street, Strand; I saw Mr. D'Aeth there—he said he wanted a collector, to deposit the sum of 40l. for honesty as I should have a lot of money pass through my hands, and he wanted that as security—the name over the door of the office was "The Permanent Life Fire Insurance Company"—I

did not know the defendant—I asked for the general manager, when I went in, and I was shown to Mr. D'Aethr—he said they were doing an immense business, and it was established' in 1867—he showed me a list of directors—in a prospectus, this is it (produced). (This contained—Bankers. The London and South-Western Bank. Directors, Charles Henry Lind, Esq., Charles Cooksey, Gloucester; Walter Selwyn, Tavistock House, Bayswater; Captain Swift, Hammersmith; H. Sharp, 5l. He asked me whether I could not put 50l. instead of 40l.—he said he wanted me to collect monies, and he should give me a district to manage—he said there were 2,500l. fully paid up shares, and 100,000 capital—I paid him the 40l., which he promised to return me when I left the employ of the company—at that time an agreement was drawn up by one of the clerks in the office—this is it (produced)—it was signed in my presence by the defendant—I entered the service of the company, on the following Monday, this was on a Friday—I was instructed as to my duties by Mr. D'Aoth—I was to collect monies from people who had their lives insured, the premiums—I collected nothing the first week—I should think I never collected more than 1s. in a week while I was there—I was there for three months—Mr. Reed was also acting as an officer of the company—he was secretary—about a fortnight after I had been there, I had a conversation with Reed, hi consequence of which I went to the defendant—I told him that Mr. Reed had asked me to lend him some money, 25l.—he said "Take no notice of him," and then the defendant asked me to lend him 100l.—this was a day or two after—he said he could put me in the way of a good investment—I said I had not got it, was all had, and that he had before; I asked him how about the deposit; and he said that was all right—part of my salary was paid me for this first month or live weeks—there was 11l. 3s. 3d., owing to me when I left, I applied for it very often to Mr. D'Aeth and the secretary—there were five other collectors—I only collected 6s. or 7s. the three months I was there, which I handed to Aldons, the clerk.

Cross-examined. The letter I received initiated by Mr. Reed and lad D'Aeth's name on—on going there the defendant did not tell me the business had been suspended for some time—he said they were doing a good business and showed me a large handful of papers he had reiceived from the country post—I was engaged as collector and fulfilled the does of collector—when there was nothing for me to colect I used to assistant in the office, in making but the policies and writing generally in the office—a greater portion of my time was employed in that way until I was sent in the country to travel—that was about a month after I entered the service—it was after I had seen the prospectus that the money was paid—it was written on the agreement that I should have shares, but I never saw a share—I am-positive he did not say there was 2,500 shares' subscribed for; he said 2,500l.—I think I remained ten weeks in the service after Reed asked for the 25l.—the instructions I received were both from Reed and the defendant—I was attending to the business of the company up to the Saturday 5th February.

Re-examined. This letter (produced)is the one I received in answer to mine—before I left on the 5th February I frequently applied to both the secretary and the defendant for my salary and deposit—they kept on promising it—the reason I stated for asking was there was no business to do—it had been actually suspended sometime—we could see there was no money and were anxious to get away—with regard to the shares I never had one

(returns for 1873 and 1874 and (Alter documents were handed to the witness)—the signature is in Mr. D'Aeth's handwriting and Mr. Lind's, a director—the account of shares, 1872, is in Mr. D'Aeth's handwriting—the document giving notice of change of address is in Mr. D'Aeth's handwriting—the prospectus was given to me as one of the company—I assumed the truth of the prospectus and was induced to part with my money thereby.

HENRY BARRETT . I live at Lavender Hill, Wandsworth—in consequence of an advertisement I saw in the "Daily Telegraph" I wrote a letter and received one reply—in consequence I came up to London and went to the office No. I Cecil Street—the name of "Permanent Life Fire Insurance Company" was over it—I saw Mr. Reed—I saw a clerk first—I was engaged after having-a conversation with Mr. Reed—I did not see the defendant on that day—I left the office and came back about a fortnight after when I saw both Mr. Reed and the defendant—I entered upon my employment and received instructions from the secretary, Reed—I went round with a fellow collector delivering notes to doctors, that was all—some time after I showed the defendant a newspaper, it was called the "Post Magazine and Insurance Monitor." (It was handed in and a long article with reference to the company was read.) I asked the defendant if it was correct and he said it was not—I asked why did not they contradict it and he said it was no use—I spoke about the capital and D'Aeth said they really had not the amount that was on the prospectus, they had 8,000l. or 9,000l.—he said he would talk' to me further about it another time—there was an agreement drawn' up between us on the 22nd November—that was 'the day I saw both the defendant and Reed (agreement produced)—it is signed by the defendant—it was sent to me two or three days before I entered' upon my engagement—I was to go round with a fellow collector for a week—I paid my deposit to the secretary, reed, I had a receipt for it some time after, two or three days—this is it (produced) it is in Daeth's handwriting—Reed gave it to me. (The receipt was read as follows: Permanent Life, Fire,' Insurance and Loan Company, limited. Chief offices, 1, Cecil Street, Strand. London, 22nd Nov. 75. Received of Henry Barratt the sum of 50l. as deposit on shares during service with the Company. Signed,' No. D'Aeth, G. Manager.") 'I remained in the service from November to February—I left in February—for a short time some of my salary was paid—there was two months owing when I left—I applied for it both to the defendant and Reed—they put us off from time to time and said they would pay us in a few days—they were both together when these applications were made—they wanted me to leave there and then and I mentioned my deposit to them and they said it was not in their power to pay me—they did not say why—I did not get it.

Cross-examined. It was the 9th or 10th of November when I first went to Cecil Street, I am not quite sure.

SAMULL KILBY . I live at Warren Street, Fitzroy Square—in October, 1875, I saw an advertisement in the "Daily Telegraph," in consequence of which I wrote a letter and received a post-card in reply, to call at 1, Cecil Street, Strand—I went there and saw Reed alone—I had some conversation with him and went again on the following day, when' I saw Reed and D'Aeth—I went to deposit my money and Reed asked D'Aeth to fill up the agreement, which he did—I read it and objected to 50l. deposit, as the advertisement said 40l.—I consented, however, to 50l. by having an I O U for 10l., and thinking that 30s. a week would be more satisfactory than 26s., which was the salary upon a deposit of 4l.—I put my money on the table

and Reed took it from me—I had a receipt; this is it (produced)—it is John D'Aeth's signature—(the receipt was similar to the other)—the body of the receipt is in Reed's handwriting—nothing was said about thereceipt or the ten shares—of course I thougt I should get my money back—I was to be employed in collecting money from subscribers—Reed told me that; the prisoner was not there then—nothing was said about my employment when they were both present—I went on the following Monday to enter upon my employment, and I think it was Reed who gave me a book containing about three dozen member's names—(the witness produced the book)—I spent the whole week in calling upon them, but collected nothing—I complained to both D'Aeth and Reed of it being disheartening to go round without any seccess—D'Aeth said "You must not mind that, it will come all right"—I went on the next week and collected about 3d. or 4d.; the most I ever collected in one week only was 5s, or 6s.—I was in the employment about eight or ten weeks; I left in January—I collected about 1l. during the whole time I was there, as near as I can remember—when I was leaving I saw both of them on the subject, and a proposition was made between us that I should leave—they wished to reduce their expenses and I wanted to get my money returned any my wages paid—I asked for my money and they promised to pay it if we gave them time; the deposit and wages—they did not pay it at any time—there was 6l. owing to me for wages when I left—on the first occasion when I saw Reed at Cecil Street I asked him questions concerning the establishment—he said it had been established from 1867 and that it was flourishing, and that he wanted someone for a permanency not to leave within three, six, or twelve months—I told him that was what I wanted, and he said "There will be no fear of your leaving"—he showed me a prospectus (one produced) and upon the face of it I deposited my money.

ALFRED JOHN ALDOUS . I am a clerk living now at 17, greart Bland Street—I saw an advertisement in the "Daily Telegraph" the latter end of July, 1875; in consequence I went to No. I Cecil Street, and saw a man named Reed—he told me he was manager of the National Assurance Company; that was the name that was painted over the door at the time "National Proincial Union Assurance Society"—I was to pay 50l. as security for my honesty it was afterwards agreed I should pay 30l. and have my wages reduced—I did not see the defendant then; it was about September when I saw him—I entered the service about the 10th August—in September the name was not the same, but it was "The Permanent Life, Fire, Insurance, and Loan Company"—I was clerk to Reed and after became clerk to the Permanent Life, Fire, Insurance Society—my duties were chiefly to make out policies and enter proposals in books—there was nothing much more to do, except writing to agents—the policies had been Issued—about 400 or 500 were posted off altogether, I dare say—the lefendant represented himself to me as general manager of the company, and Reed as secretary—there was only a verbal agreement made—my money was simply deposited, and went over to the "Pernanent Society" when the name was changed—there was an agreement in the first instance—this is it (produced)—in September Reed and the defendant were both present when the verbal agreement was come to—it was that I should receive 30s. per week, and the deposit to be assigned to the company—the money was supposed to be in the bank of the company and to be returned after I had given notice—I left the serive about the first week in February

when the summons was taken out—my salary was paid up to Christmas, and after that I only received about 5l.—I applied for it several times to the defendant and also Reed, and they said they should have some money in the course of a few days and they would pay me—I asked for my deposit several times, but I never got it or my salary—I received part of the monies collected by the collectors; the small amounts only—I do not think I received 15s. all the time I was there—there was no other clerk—the others came as clerks and collectors—Reed took what money came by post.

Cross-examined. I last saw Reed the day before the hearing at Bow Street—I could not say the date; it was on the Monday—I had been to the premises in March; 301, Strand—they had removed from Cecil Street—I was in the habit of keeping the books—I cannot say what has become of them—they were removed from Cecil Street, Strand—it is not within my knowledge that Reed has the books under his control; I have heard) they were taken away—there was another person employed by Reed in August and September; his name is Brown—there was no business in the name of the "Provincial."

Re-examined. I paid away the small amounts I received, after entering them in the books, for stamps and petty things.

ANDRIES GERHARDUS VANSITTART . I live at 128, St. Paul's Road, Canonbury—I saw the advertisement in the "Daily Telegraph" a fortnight before Christmas, 1875—I wrote a letter and received a reply—I went to 1, Cecil Street, where I saw Reed alone—he showed me an agreement first—I read it, and objected to take shares, so he cancelled it—he told me there were 14,000 members, and that a dividend of 7 1/2 per cent had been paid over the amount the company's shares realised upon the capital of the company—I was to be collector, and that was what the deposit of 50l. was for—I paid my deposit to Reed a work afterwards—there was nobody else there—I entered into my employment—I first saw the defendant in the City Reed took me to him—they were to leave the premises in Cecil Street, and wanted other premises, and asked me to advance 300l. in order that they could buy the lease of the presimses; that is what Reed took me to D'Aeth for—I bought the lease, but I did not advance it to Reed—I lent the money to somebody else, not connected with the company at all, so that I knew how matters stood—while I was at the office I merely acted as clerk I never collected—they were to reconstruct the company, and writing out the new rules for agents were my duties—I saw the defendant at 301, Strand; he was acting as manager—sometimes he gave me some work to do and at other times Reed did—I was to receive 30s. a week salary, but never did receive it—I applied to both for it, and all they said was, I should have it by-and-bye.

Cross-examined. I paid my money to Seed—Aldous was in the office the first time I saw Reed—it was from 'him—at I received the post-card, but at the order of Reed—I do not know that he put the advertisements in. the newspaper—I do not remember that the prisoner told me the affairs of the company seemed in a bad way: I could see that myself.

HARRY SHARP . I live at 20, Davenport Road, Shepherd's Bush—I am a merchant—I was a director of this company—I did live at the address on the prospectus—I was requested to become a director by D'Aeth, he showed me a prospectus, similar to this (produced)—I attended a board meeting of directors—Charles Henry Hind was present and Mr. Selwyn—I heard Mr.

Hind was a solicitor—we three only were present—I do not know Mr. Selwyn was—the meeting lasted ten minutes—I know nothing of the affairs of the company—my name was only put down until they got some one in a better position; the directors were to receive helf a guinea a meeting—I attended one meeting but did not receive one 6d.—I know nothing about the young men entering the employment as collectors—I known they had not a bank at all—I have been to No. 1, Cecil Street, I have been written to several times to attend a meeting but I did not go—I have seen Mr. Cooksey the director once—I never saw Captain Swift in my life—I have soen Reed two or three time—I moved the resolution that he should become Secetary, in November; he was not appointed before—the meeting I attended in October was in Bedford Row, it was at Mr. Hind's house—I did not take shares I was never asked; that is all I know about the company which is nothing—Mr. Hind seconded the resolution that I made—really it was only a meeting of "two"—D'Aeth was taking the minutes—I made a resolution that Reed should produce all monies received—I do not know how D'Aeth was appointed manager—I was requested to send in my resignation by Reed because he was going to get better people on the board—this was about the beginning of January—I did send it in.

JOHN PITTMAN (Policeman E 44) I hold a warrant for the apprehension of Reed—I have tried to find him in every possible way, but have been unable to do so.

GUILTY on the secondcourt— Nine Month's Imprisonment.

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-364
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

364. RICHARD HOOPER (53) PLEADED GUILTY to bigemy. He received a goodcharacter— Three Month's Imprisonment.

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-365
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

365. GEORGE ROBERTS (18) . Stealing an order for payment of 8l. 11s. 6d. of William Underwood. Second Count—Receiving.

MR. RAVEN conducted the Prosecution.

LEONARD BAINBEIDGE . I am a clerk to Underwood & Co., 17, Lawrence Lane, Cheapside—they have letter boxes on the street door on the ground floor—on 30th March, when I arrived at 9 o'clock, the letters had been taken and the doors had been forced open—there is more then one box—different people rent the ground floor, but it was our box that had been broken—the prisoner was not connected with our premises; I never saw him before—our reeand boy comes at 8.30 to clear the office out, and that is how a person could have got inside—the door was left open.

JAMES HUTCHINS . I am a letter carrier employed by the General Post-office—I remember on the 30th March delivering eight or ten letters to Messrs. Underwood—I put them into their box attached to the street door—I could not say the time, it might be 8.30 or 8.35.

ELIZABETH BECKWITH TOWSE . I reside at 27, Gloncester Road, Regent's Park—I remember sending a letter to Messrs. Underwood on the 29th of March—I posted it—I enclosed a cheque; this is the one (produced)—I addressed the Letter to 17, Lawrence Lane; it was properly fastened.

ROBERT MOBBS . I am a licensed victualler, of the Noah's Ark, Oxford Street—this cheque (produced) was brought to me about the 2nd April—I believe the prisoner broght it, I cannot swear positively—at the cells at Guildhall I picked him out of eight or ten others—I was thrown off my guard by the prisoner telling me that the previous landlord used to change cheques—I had only been there about a week—I kept the cheque in my house for some time before sending it to the bank unfortunately, and it was returned—if it had paid it in the same day I should have got the money.

ROBERT OUTRAM (City Detective Sergeant). On the morning of the 30th March I received information of letter boxes having been broken open at 17, Lawrence Lane—I went there and examined the boxes—this (produced) is one of them—they had been forced open—on the morning of the 10th April 1 again examined the boxes, this chisel, which was found on the prisoner, corresponds with the marks on the box—I was present at the Guildhall cells when Mr. Mobbs identified the prisoner, among ten or twelve persons, as the man who brought the cheque—the doors at Lawrence Lane fall into a recess—they are left open.

JAMES JOHNSON (City Policeman 459), On the 8th April at 8.30 in the morning I was in Gresham Street and heard a cry of "Stop thief"—I saw the prisoner running; I stopped him, took him to the station, searched him, and found upon him 2s. 3d. in money, three pawnbroker's tickets, and" also the chisel produced—he gave his address 15, St. John's Lane—I inquired there but he was not known.

CHARLES ALDRIDGE . I am a warehouseman at 52, Aldermanbury—on the morning of the 8th April at 8.30 I was going to unlock the warehouse where I am employed—I saw a man outside the door—I had to unlock the basement door under the shop front and this man moved away—I followed him to Gresham Street, stopped him, and told him to come back to the warehouse with me; our letters had been stolen—he said he would come back with me, but instead of that, he and another man not in custody, ran different ways—I chased him through Guildhall, though various courts into Gresham Street, when he was stopped by the policeman.

Prisoner's Defence. I ran away because of what the last witness said, but not knowing what I had to run away for, I stopped.


NEW COURT.—Thursday, May 4th, 1876.

Before Mr. Recorder.

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-366
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

Related Material

366. JACOB MYERS (35) was indicted for that, he being a trader, and having presented a petition in bankruptcy for liquidation, unlawfully did omit to discover to his trustee various sums received by him. Six other Counts varying the manner of laying the charge.

MESSRS. BESLEY and J. P. GRAIN conducted the Prosecution, and MR. OPPENHEIM the Defence.

ALFRED LOVE . I am in the liquidation department of the Bankruptcy Court—I produce the prisoner's petition, which is dated November 3, and filed on the 4th—the statement of accounts was filed on 3rd December, and purports to be a statement up to 4th November—I find on the file an order to prosecute and a certificate of the appointment of Mr. Andrews as trustee, also the bankrupt's examination on 2nd and 3rd February.

Cross-examined. The petition was filed on 4th November, and Mr. Andrews was appointed receiver on the 8th—I have got the record of the meeting of creditors held at Mr. Pass's office on 30th November, which states that a resolution was passed to liquidate the bankrupt's affairs by arrangement—I produce the statement of the bankrupt's affairs up to 4th November, 1875, filed on 3rd December—I find on 6th December this minute of Mr. Keen, the Registrar:—"I refuse to register the resolution for liquidation by arrangement at the meeting of creditors on the ground that the debtor on his statement of affairs does not disclose any assets of value for distribution by his creditors as required by the Bankruptcy Act of 1869"—I do

not recollect Withers' affidavit, but here is an office copy of it on the file—I have also the record of an appeal made on 13th December to Mr. Registrar Knight, sitting as Chief Judge, from Mr. Keen's refusal—here is an application for a private sitting—I have on the. file a certificate, dated 22nd December, of the appointment of Mr. Andrews, as required by the Act—the meeting for the examination of the bankrupt was on 2nd February; it was a private meeting—I have, got the report made by Mr. Andrews to the Court, dated 21st February, 1876, and also the order of Mr. Hazlitt, the Registrar, to prosecute.

Re-examined. There is 'only one statement of affairs on the file, that of December 3rd—I find on one side, that 2,694l. 6s. 11d. is in the names of twelve unsecured creditors, and on the other side "Assets in hand, 14l. 12s.; book debts, nothing; cash in hand, nothing; furniture and fittings estimated to produce 20l.; total assets, 34l. 12s.

GEORGE BLAGRAVE SNELL . I am one of the shorthand writers of the Bankruptcy Court—I was duly sworn, according to Act of Parliament, to take notes of Myers' examination on 2nd February, 1876—I took down his examination in shorthand, and transcribed it accurately, as it appears on the file of the proceedings. (The transcript was here put in, and Mr. Grain read certain parts of it.)

FREDERICK JOSHUA FARMER I am manager of the counting-house of Messrs, Christie & Co., 35, Gracechurch Street—the defendant was in the habit of supplying them with made-up, articles, such as sealskin caps and goods of that kind—I have a copy of his account from the ledger, and the ledger itself is here—on 27th August, 1875, I paid him 98l. 8s. 6d.—the total payments to him in September was 376l. 5s.; in October, 227l. 14s. 2d.; on 6th November, 53l. 4s. 6d. and on the 13th, 55l. 6s. 6d. was paid to his trustee—as to the 53l. 4s. 6d. on 6th November, the goods were in our possession before we parted with the money—the date of the invoice is 5th November; the goods would be sent in during that week.

Cross-examined. We have known Myers for a long time; he has worked for the firm upwards of twenty years, I think—of late years, I should think, the greater portion of his business consisted in working for us—he purchased the materials and delivered goods to us nearly weekly—he was paid every week for the goods he had delivered during the week—on two occasions in 1875 he borrowed money of us; 60l. on 24th July and 30l. on 11th September; which he paid back by instalments—we have always found him honest.

Re-examined. I had no knowledge of the persons from whom he was getting the raw material—I heard that he had a fire in 1874—I did not inquire how much he owed after that before we went on dealing with him—I did not hear of his insolvency in 1871.

SAMUEL JOSEPH CHURCH . I am manager of the goods department at Messrs. Christie's—I receive the goods when they are brought in in a manufactured state—the goods paid for on 4th November were delivered between the 1st and the 5th, and those paid for on the 13th would be delivered in the same way between the Monday and Friday and paid for on Saturday the 13th—I was the buyer of the goods—I gave a fair trade price for them, which would afford a profit to the manufacturer.

Cross-examined. I should think the price would leave a profit of about ten per cent.—I have known him nearly twenty years—he has sometimes had advances from our firm to enable him to purchase materials—I knew

of the fire—we lent him money and trusted him after wo knew of his difficulties—we have always found him honest and industrious and attentive to his business—in 1869 he was the means of discovering an attempt to rob us.

JOSEPH ANDREWS . I am an accountant, in partnership with Mr. Mason, of Ironmonger Lane—I was first receiver and afterwards trustee of the defendant's affairs in liquidation—my partner called upon him almost immediately after the filing of the petition—I acted as receiver and trustee from time to time—I never received any books, papers, writings, or documents from the defendant; nothing whatever—I did not receive any invoices or receipts from him previous to his examination on 2nd February in the Bankruptcy Court—he did not hand mo over a japanned cash-box, or any cash—he did not inform me of the receipt of the 53l. 4s. 6d. on 6th November from Christie's, or of the delivery of goods to them to the value of 55l. 6s. 6d. between 5th and 12th November—we were informed of the fact that money was lying there to be received, and notice was served upon them at my request, and my partner attended and got the money—it came into my hands as receiver—the stock-in-trade on the premises in Goulston Street was sold by my direction, and realised 1l. 16s. 5d.; that and the 55l. 6s. 6d. formed the whole of the assets that came into my hands-nothing was realised from the furniture—the defendant never informed me that a person named Isaacson was indebted to him; I never heard the name until after the examination on 2nd February—I have had no communication with or received anything from a person named Portugee, of Manchester—Messrs. Stamp & Heacock, of Warwick Court, Holborn, are returned as creditors for 659l. 8s. 5d. in the statement of affairs; they have proved for 786l. 10s. 7d.—there are other creditors who have proved over the amounts returned, but not to any extent; they are trifling—some have not yet proved—there is nothing to divide at present—so far as I can learn, up to the present time his indebtedness amounts to 2,875l.—since his examination I have examined from the invoices the purchases which he made for the year from the time of the fire; I have taken them out month by month, from December, 1874, to November, 1875,! and they amount to 2,105l. 1s. 1d.—I have in the same way taken out from the receipts his payments from December, 1874, to November, 1875, and they amount to 1,738l. 3s. 10d.—200l. was paid by the Fire Office to creditors on his behalf—I find from his own statement that he borrowed from two persons 96l. and 100l. in August, 1875, and June or July—the value of the stock saved at the fire he states at 170l.—upon these figures I find a deficiency of 933l., that deficiency has not been in any way accounted for to me—the purchases in September, 1875, were 8l. 5s.; in October, 89l. 10s.; November, 35l. 5s. 6d.; total, 133l. 0s. 6d.; and the payments, in October, 134l. 6s.; and November, 35l. 5s. 6d.; total 169l. 11s. 6d.; and he had from Christie's 755l. 12s. 2d.—I don't know what has become of the difference; he has never discovered it to me.

Cross-examined. I saw the defendant at my office soon after we received) the account from Christie's, about 13th November; that account came to my ears through Mr. Ditton, the solicitor to some of the creditors, he is now acting as solicitor for the trustee—I saw the defendant once or twice while I was receiver, he came to my office—I did not see him before the meeting on 2nd February—I did not go to his house or send for him I did not ask him for any information about his affairs or ask

him to deliver up any books or documents—my partner went to his house with one of my men and the man was left there, and the goods were brought to my office, they were imitation seal skin caps, rabbit skins, I think there were three or four boxes of them, they' sold for 1l. 16s. 5d.—I don't know from whom they had been obtained or what he paid for them; Buckley & Co., cap manufacturers, bought them—I was not present when I was registered as trustee, or at the defendant's examination on 2nd February—my appointment as trustee was advertised in the ordinary way through my solicitor—I did not give the bankrupt notice of it—I gave my solicitor's clerk, Mr. Withers, instructions to call on him for a goods account—that was soon after ray appointment, it was before the application for the private sitting—Mr. Mason and I acted jointly in the matter—before I made my report I had information of what took place at the meeting on 2nd February—I believe Mr. Withers called, and we saw the shorthand writer's notes of the examination—in his examination he states that he cannot give an account, but his men can—I have not applied that they might be examined—the name of Mr. Barewood is mentioned in the examination as having lent him money—I did not apply for him to be examined—we did not find Mr. Portugee, inquiry was made through my solicitor, the report was drawn up by him, he had instructions to do everything that was legal in the matter, and I am responsible for it—I left the matter, to a great extent, to him as far as legal matters were concerned—the figures I have given were obtained from invoices and receipts handed over to my solicitor on my behalf at the examination—the account of the two sums borrowed I got from the creditors themselves, Mr. Lewis and Mr. Kauffman—the amount of the purchases was taken from invoices and statements—I can't say how much from each, the bankrupt having had no books I had no alternative in making up my statement, but to obtain statements from creditors as well as from papers handed over—he has stated that he paid on an average from 11l. to 12l. a week to workpeople—we ourselves paid 11l. for a week's work after receiving the amount from Messrs. Christie—the debt to Stamp & Heacock was contracted six years ago, they appear to have charged interest on that debt, which accounts for the difference between the 659l. and 786l.—some of the other debts may be old ones, but not many—I have now got the. Papers which were handed over by the defendant's solicitor, and have gone through them to see if any of the returns made by me are derived from other sources and I find that the whole of them are right, except 89l. 10s. in October, and there are papers to vouch them—the 89l. 10s. is for goods purchased from Mr. Levy—besides the receipts I have also added the statements of creditors, so that I have given him full credit, not only for what he has given receipts for, but for what he has actually paid.

Cross-examined. Some of these are for goods purchased and also for payments made—I commence with December—I have not been able to ascertain what other payments have been made, there may be a very large amount, but the sum also increases the amount for purchases—the payments made are merely for raw material.

BENJAMIN LEVY . I am a skin dealer, of Cork Street, Spital Square—I am only a cypher, I have been ailing, and my son is in Germany—I am no scholar, I can only sign my name, and therefore I am obliged to give my son the power to do everything; he informs me that the prisoner is indebted to us 408l. 2s. 11d.—this (produced)is the account my son sent in, he does

all the books himself. (The Court directed the amount of 89l. 10s. to he struck out).

JOHN WITHAERS . I am managing bankruptcy clerk to Mr. Lane and have had the conduct of this matter—on 9th November I went with Mr. Mason to the prisoner's place in Whitecapel, and Mr. Moore told him that Mr. Andrews had been appointed receiver and he had called to take possession of his property—we looked over the house, principally to look for a cash box, but could not find it—I asked him for his books and papers, he said that he had none—I asked him if he had any property of any kind in his possession, he said that he had not—I asked if he had any debts due to him, he said "No"—I went back again the same day with Mr. Mason in consequence of further information, and we looked in a particular place for the cash box, but could not find it—I asked him where it was and what had become of it, he said he never had one—I said that we had received information that a few days before he had produced a cash box containing Bank of England notes to the amount of 800l.—he said that was all a mistake—we searched the house with more care but did not find anything—I was present afterwards at a meeting when he was shortly examined—that is not on the file, but there is a copy of it among the papers—I did not see him again till 2nd February—up to that time I did not receive any paper from him or any communication whatever.

Cross-examined. I drew the affidavit of Mr. Richard Dixon of 8th November, 1875—he is a partner of Mr. Marcus—the receiver was appointed on his application—it was upon that that I went to him and asked him about the 800l.—not being able to find any money I went and saw Davis between the two visits—I next saw the bankrupt at his solicitor's office when the resolution was passed to wind up his affairs—the Registrar refused to register because the estate did not disclose any property to administer, there was then an appeal to Mr. Hazlitt and this resolution was registered—it'was then that Mr. Andrews became trustee—the prisoner was not present when that resolution was registered, but his solicitor was—I swear that, for he spoke to our counsel, but I was not present—something occurred in the Registrar's private room, but I was not there—after that I subpœnaed him to the Bankruptcy Court on 2nd February—I cannot tell you when the notice was served, the books are not here—a clerk in my department served it, he is not here—I did not make it out.

Re-examined. Registrar Keene refused at first—the prisoner was represented on that occasion by Mr. Pass—the further hearing was before Mr. Registrar Hazlitt sitting as Chief Judge—Mr. Pass was present when Registrar Hazlitt gave his decision as to whether Registrar Keene was right, but I do not know whether the defendant was—I should not have served him with a notice—the ordinary course was pursued as with other debtors—the prisoner did not complain that the appointment of a trustee had not been advertised—I believe it was advertised—I have not got the advertisement.

PERCY MASON . I am in partnership with Mr. Andrews, the receiver and afterwards the trustee—while he was the receiver I took possession of the defendant's stock-in-trade—that was on 9th November—there was a sealskin jacket there which was claimed and given up—that would not be stock—the only stock I found was some rabbit skins which I made as good a price as I could for, and sold them at 1l. 16s. 5d.—I was present when the inquiry was made about the cash box and heard the prisoner's reply.

Cross-examined. There were five dozen rabbit skins, but they were cut up into the shape of caps—they were partly made up and partly unmade—they wanted lining and sewing together.

HENRY DAVIS . I carry on business with my father and brother as fur merchants at 4, Jewin Crescent—early in October we were the holders of an acceptance of the defendant's for 30l.—I went with my father to his residence—I had not the bill with me because it was not due; it had two or three days to run—he said that he was quite prepared to pay it, and he gave me a 50l. note from a japanned cash box in a drawer—there were several other notes with it; I could not see what they were, but it was to his advantage to show me that he had a lot of money because he wanted me to give him credit for more goods—he was to have 20l. returned, but he bought more goods and said that I might keep it on account—I said that if he would call at the warehouse I should be happy to do business with him, and he came on 4th October and bought 90l. worth of goods on account, and gave me a bill for the balance; I allowed him 2 1/2 discount on the order—the bill was never paid—my brother was present, he gave evidence at Bow Street similar to mine—he is in Germany.

Cross-examined. I did not tell Richard Dixon that I had seen 800l. in the cash box—I saw him for the purpose of getting him to take as cash 500l. or 600l. more bills—I offered him Myers' bill for 69l. 10s., but he said "This bill is not worth the paper it is written upon"—I told him I thought the man was trustworthy as he had paid me a bill a short time before, but I never told him I had seen him take out his cash box with 800l.—I called on Myers in the way of business and not to get money, although the bill was not due till the 8th I took 40l. on the 4th—he gave me a 50l. note, but I did not offer him the change because I had not got it with me—you must ask him why he gave it me before it was due—I told him I would give him a cheque for the change when he called at my house—he did call for the balance, I asked him to buy more goods, and he gave me a 69l. 9s. bill—this (a small mahogany box)is not the cash box I saw—I am still under the impression that it was a japanned cash box—I saw some papers in it—he took out several notes, but I cannot say whether the 20l. note was at the top—I know that they were notes because he said so, he said "I have some more money besides," but whether they were 5l. notes or pieces of tissue paper I do not know—I have not given him the 30l. bill back, he has not applied for it, and was at my bankers when he came—it is in my possession now—it has never been applied for; you can have it if you want it—I believe Mr. Mason took the stamped receipt when he came.

FREDERICK KERLEY (Detective Officer E). I received a warrant and took the prisoner at his residence 25, Goulston Street—he said "The person who says I had this money had a bill of mine"—that was in reference to the notes supposed to have been concealed by him.

EDWARD CAIRNS . I am a clerk to Mr. Dixon—I was in Manchester last month on business for the firm and went to 40, Lord Street to seek for a person named Portugee as I had the name—I got the address from the bankrupt's examination—I did not find him there and then went to 4, Lord Street, thinking it might be a mistake, but he was not there—I made minute inquiries but found no one bearing that name.

Cross-examined. I sent instructions on Monday, 10th April and I was at Manchester next day making the enquiries—I had four or five sheets of the examination given to me but I should not like to say that the address was

there—I had the address given to me by Mr. Withers on paper—I found out that there was a person in Manchester named Portegas.

Re-examined. After enquiries I found a person named Portegas in a small house worth about 6s. a week the woman was very evasive in her answers—I enquired for Porfcegas office or business place, she said that he had mere nothing but this small place; all I could learn was from what she told me—I enquired whether she knew anybody named Myers she said "No "She led me to believe that she was the wife of Portegas.

GUILTY on the Counts relating to the sums amounting to 476l. 15s. received from Messrs. Christie Judgment Respited.

THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, May 3rd, 1876.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-337a
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

337. WILLIAM HUDSON BELL (36) , Embezzling the sums of 1s, 1s. 6d., and la., received on account of Hugh Smith, his master.

MESSRS. STRAIGHT and Mead conducted the Prosecution; and MR. BESLET the Defence.

ELIZABETH WATT . I live at 16, Dock Road, Bermondsey, and am the wife of William Watt—in November, 1873, I borrowed 1l. from the Charity Organisation Society, and was supplied with this book (produced)—I repaid the same by twenty instalments of 1s. every Monday; I didn't miss once—on 6th January my son paid the money to Mr. Bell—I could not swear to Mr. Bell's writing—my son paid each instalment, and saw Mr. Bell enter it in the book.

Cross-examined. I had been in the hospital, and when I came out a few friends got up a subscription to buy me a machine, and they gave me 1l. from the Society and lent me 1l.—Mr. Wells was there when I had the 1l. given me, but Mr. Bell came in, I believe, that week—Mr. Wells and Mr. Bell were together at that time—I recollect receiving the money—I live at 2s., Webster Road, but I got the money from Queen's Road—I believe it was paid in the surety's house—I cannot recollect whether I received it at the office, or whether Mr. Wells brought it me—my husband went to America five years ago, and I went into the hospital—I have not heard from my husband for four years—in October, 1874, I moved and went to Lucy Road—my mother did not say at the police-court that she did not know whether I had gone to join my husband in America—I did not say at the police-court "I don't know if my mother said I had gone to America"—I said my mother could not say so; she didn't know I owed any money—my deposition was read over to me at the police-court—I moved from 25, Webster Road—I was in lodgings at my mother's house—when I went away she let out rooms to other lodgers—the Charity Organisation Society subpœnaed me to the police-court—I did not hear an application made to Mr. Benson for a warrant and he refuse it.

Re-examined. My surety was Mr. Young—I don't know when he formally became surety—he is not a chemist; he was a chemical agent, living at 33, Webster Road—he was living there at the time I applied for the loan.

JAMES WATT . I am the son of the last witness, and from time to time I made payments to the prisoner on her behalf at the office of the Charity Organisation Society—I took this little book, in which the prisoner entered the amount and initialled it—I see the 5th January, 1s.; the 12th, 1s. 6d.; and the 9th February, 1s., which amounts I paid on those days.

Cross-examined. I do not recollect any particular date when I went there—I went regularly once a week.

By THE COURT. The office I went to is in Queen Street, Horsleydown—I only saw Mr. Bell there, and he signed the book—I never left the book there.

HUGH SMITH . I am a wharfinger, and am treasurer of the St. Olave's branch of the Charity Organisation Society—I am one of the committee—I was present when the prisoner was engaged as agent, in October, 1873—it is part of our system to make small loans to poor persons, to be repaid by instalments—the prisoner was taken into our service as inquiry agent, the engagement was not made in writing, by a resolution of the committee at the committee meeting—the applications were made for loans through the agent, the applicant having been to the office some time during the week—the whole of the facts as to the condition of the applicant are gone into, and if it is thought a suitable case, and there is any hope of doing any permanent good, we make the advance, repayable at 1s. a week—the money comes through the agent to me—it was the prisoner's duty to receive these instalments, and he would enter them to the credit of an account in the is loan ledger (produced)—on a Saturday he would bring those monies to me; he would not produce the loan ledger with them—I had nothing to do with tallying the entries with the money—he was paid by a salary of 355. a week—he devoted the whole of his time to our service—I know his handwriting—I have the folio "Elizabeth Watt"—it would be his duty to enter the instalments as paid in this book (the loan ledger)—I do not find 5th January, 1s.; 12th January, 1s. 6d.; and the 9th February, Is.—this memorandum is in his writing—"Elizabeth Watt gone to join her husband in America, who previously deserted her. Surety cannot be found', used to be a chemical agent, but has failed, I am told."

Cross-examined. I cannot say how often this book was audited—it would be at the end of the year—our accounts are made out to the 30th September—it was made a part of my duty to be present in September, 1874, when the accounts were gone through, when a report was issued and the accounts made out to September, 1874—I know nothing about the book—I do "Not know that it was returned to my committee fey the defendant after going into the service of the St. George's Union—I had great difficulty in getting this loan ledger back from Bell, and had to send an agent for it—it was for six weeks in his possession—a man of the name of Wells was agent before he was appointed—I cannot be positive at the time he was there whether there was any audit made of the accounts; I should say there was one and a report issued about the 30th September, 1874—I am certain a report was issued—I have no knowledge of the audit—Mr. Jaeger is my cashier—Campbell succeeded Bell temporarily—I should think there would be twenty members of the committee—there was no secretary for a time, I should think for the greater part of the summer of 1874—there was no committee at all for many weeks) there were no cases—there were some away for their vacation—the prisoner brought first-rate testimonials when he came—I cannot say whether those produced are the same; I have no doubt they are—he would always bring me money or ought to have done "so—there might have been a few Saturdays on which Mr. Jaeger took his money, but in order that there might by no confusion as I hoped, I arranged that the agent should bring, merely a debtor and creditor account; so that he should not use in the business any

money he bad received, and on one side he would put the money he had received and on the other side the loans granted, his salary, and any payments required—I believe the accounts for the 5th and 12th July and the 9th February are there—Balfour was secretary at one time—he would not receive the money when present, it was always paid to me—he may have received money from the applicants occasionally, not from the agent-Burnett was secretary at one time—he had no right to receive money—I should say in the ordinary course of business that the agent would keep the money, till Saturday and bring it to me—I could not say that Mr. Burnett had received money and that I had it from him—we paid in to a seperate account—they get a receipt from the bank each week, so that there shall be no mistake—these receipts (produced)are for money received by Bell after he left our employ—it is not in the ordinary course of business at all—they are Mr. Balfour's receipts for such money, signed "B N. Balfour"—it does not appear in respect of whose instalments they are Bell left the service about April, 1875—I do not know that I have any account in Bell's writing of what these particular instalments are—the money should never have been taken away—this (produced)is a receipt of Mr. Burnett's of sums amounting to 9l. 18s. 1d—the counterfoil to this paying in slip (produced)is made out by my clerk, Robert Allers; he is here—1873 is a mistake for 1874—the other paying in slip, 10th January, 1874, is in the same writing—it is 1l. 4s. paid in cash—you may take it they are in the same writing—2l. 9s. the 17th January cash, besides 20l. cheques—I really do not know whether that was a contribution from the Mansion House for the persons inundated—I should think the 20l. was a contribution from the Southwarkpolice-court—"2nd February, 1874, 5l. donation from Steam Navigation Company; 7th February, 2l. 7s."r—these payments would not be made by Jaeger—the agent brings me* on Saturday a paper which you see here—on the debit side he puts all the monies he has received during the week, and on the credit side he puts the monies that I have to pay, and I receive from him not the balance, but the whole amount that he has received, and give him a cheque for the monies he wants—for instance, if he had received 12s. during the week, and his salary-was 35s., I should not pay him the difference between the 35s. and 12s., but I should receive the 12s. and pay it into the bank, and give him a cheque for 35s.—Mr. Allers would pay into the bank what I give him, not Mr. Bell—I sit in an inner office, and when an agent calls with his money, sometimes I see him and sometimes not, and Mr. Allers gives him a cheque—I have no chance of making a mistake; I only sign a cheque—Mr. Burnett is in Scotland, I believe—this seems to be a letter of our agent Campbell, who temporarily succeeded Mr. Bell (produced)—I know nothing of Campbell's private correspondence with Bell—it is written on our paper. (Read: "St. Olave's District. 172, Tooley Street, London, 22nd May, 1875. Dear Bell,—I received your letter and its enclosure yesterday morning and handed same to Mr. Balfour. who told me he would, send you a receipt for the sum you gave him on the 6th, as also for what you sent roe. I leave on Monday next. I do not like the business, and I am fully occupied without it. Mrs. Murphy sends her best love, and is happy to hear that you are getting on well. Yours truly, W. H. Campbell.") Mrs. Murphy is the housekeeper at the offices—we keep other books than the loan ledger—there is nothing referring to Mrs. Watt except that book—there is a cash-book (produced) is made up from small pieces of paper; from the transactions of the

week—I do not keep the book—I really cannot express any opinion as to whether these entries were Written at the same time—with regard to that piece of paper, the 23rd and 30th April appear to be written at one and the same time—I do not know anything about it—this writing is the secretary's who preceded Mr. Balfour; Mr. Huntley, the son of a solicitor—I do not think he is here—I know nothing of a notice to produce loose pieces of paper containing cash entries from which the books are copied—Mr. Allers has nothing to do with it—I never go there at all except once or twice a year—there is no cash-book but this one that I know of; I do not know anything about the books—the bankers' pass-book of the society is on the table—I did not compare it with the cash-book—I should think they would be compared once in six months; not by auditors, by some members of the committee—it has lately been much more often, done every week, I cannot say whether once in six weeks during Bell's time; not so often as now—the committee directed Mr. Burnett to address a communication to the Local Government Board as early as December last year—I knew that Bell had gone from our employ into that of the St. George's Union—the letter was for the purpose of avoiding the prosecution—I took the best advice, and we considered if we brought the matter before the Local Government Board it would save further investigation; our idea was that he having in April, as we thought, made away with this money, that he was not a fit person to be entrusted with relieving the poor in Westminster; and it was to avoid the prosecution, certainly not to accept the money back—what I mean is, that if I considered him an unfit person to be a relieving officer, and he ceased to be a relieving officer, we considered our duties as the Charity Organisation Society were at an end—I don't think we should have prosecuted him if he had lost his situation—we brought the matter before the Local Government Board for the purpose of avoiding the prosecution and satisfying the public interests—that was on the 20th December, 1875, not very long before I went to the police-court—Mr. Benson refused the application for a summons, and said if he issued anything at all it must be a warrant—that was in January—we got the warrant in March—I do not know that the prisoner is only suspended, and that he is still in the service of the St. George's Union—he was suspended on being taken before the Magistrate—I think we have only had that one letter from the Local Government Board—I do not know that we have made repeated attempts'to get'the man out of his situation—this all appears in our minutes—I have sent for them.

Re-examined. We considered the prisoner unfit to be a relieving officer because we believed he had embezzled these monies—we only knew of one or two cases then, and after an application to the Magistrate for, a summons was refused, and he said he would only grant a warrant, we sent an accountant and investigated all the cases in that loan ledger, and we found, instead of one or two cases of embezzlement, there were, as we thought, eight or ten, and we then applied for a warrant, as we then considered he ought to be prosecuted—I think it was the end of December or January that we first applied for a summons—the practice was that he accounted to me each week for the monies he received while in our employ, and he would enter the money he received on' the debit side of that account—in order that there might be no mistake I would not allow him to use the money he re ceived for the business—there is an entry on 5th January in the name of "Elizabeth Watt"—there are other sums, "E. Webb, 2s.," and' "William

Clarke, 1s."—we received no money that week in respect of Elizabeth Watt—on the 1st January there is 1s. from Mrs. Watt, and on the 15th, the the 22nd, and the 28th, 1s.

JAMES WATT (re-called). My mother gave me the money to rake every Saturday morning, once a week—I don't believe I ever went except on Saturday morning; I am not quite sure whether it was Saturday or Monday morning—I paid him 1s. 6d. once, to pay it up quicker.

WILLIAM MURDOCK . I am clerk to Mr. James Waddell, accountant, of Mansion House Chambers—I have inspected the cash book, loan ledger, and borrowers' book only—I have compared the little account of Mrs. Watt and the prisoner's loan ledger, and also the weekly sheets on which he accounted for the amounts he paid to the secretary—to the best of my belief I found 15s. had been paid in respect of Mrs. Watt's account—that report, which I made after having inspected the accounts, is a correct one—by the borrowers' book the whole amount of the loan, amounting to 1l., appears to be paid—I have examined the cash sheets with the loan ledger, and they agree—the dates are not the same throughout—the loan ledger does not agree with, the borrowers' book—the borrowers' book shows that the whole amount has been paid, and the loan ledger shows 15s.—the sheets show 15s.

Cross-examined. I began investigating the sheets from about the 11th of November or the end of October—these two sheets appear to be for 1874 and 1875, 26th March, 1874, 2s.; 1s. 10th March, 1s. 2nd April, 1s. 30th April, 1s. on the 5th February, and 1s. on the 2nd July—there is a letter in prisoner's handwriting, I think, setting forth the particulars of the amounts paid.

BLAYNET KEYJSELL BALFOUR . This receipt for 2l. 1s. (produced)is signed by Mr. Burnett, who collected—as well as I remember Bell sent this letter with it. (Read: "St. George's Union Settlement Office Workhouse. Sir,—I have received the following sums on account of loans, and thought it best to collect what I could," &c.) I have examined the loan ledger, and find three entries, "E. Mansell," making up 2l. 8s.

Cross-examined. I do not remember having any special conversation with Bell in reference to Mrs. Watt—I don't think I-have any document in Bell's handwriting showing how he made up the amount we gave a receipt for—I have the entries in this book—I appropriate in my mind the amount of entries that make up that sum.

Re-examined. Unless I appropriate that receipt I have mentioned he has not accounted for those amounts.

ROBEBT BURNETT . I am the honorary secretary to this branch of the Society—this receipt is in my handwriting—I see an amount there of 12s. paid in respect of Joans, the prisoner gave me some names from this book (produced)—the name of Mrs. Watt is not amongst those—when the loan ledger was returned by him after he left, the amounts which he afterwards remitted were marked in red by him, including Mrs. Watt's, to the best of my recollection—I have not seen it for some time.

Cross-examined. I believe all those were marked in red—Bell did not mark those making the 12s.; he had not left at that time—I received these amounts from him personally—I may have seen him once or twice after I left; I don't think I did at the office; I am not quite sure—I never called his attention to Mrs. Watt's name—he said the 12s. was in respect of certain loans marked down here; he told me the names—he did not account to mo from time to time after that; I was only secretary about

six weeks before ho left—my knowledge of him is limited to that six weeks; at least it did not begin before the beginning of that six weeks—he accounted to me on his leaving, and mentioned verbally to me the persons to whom the 12s. applied—I am. still connected with the society—I have not expressed my belief that this is a case of muddled accounts, and not a felony; I have expressed an opinion that it is a felony—I do not know exactly what you mean by my joining in the attempt to get him dismissed from the office of relieving officer of St. George's, Hanover Square—I took part, being present at the committee meetings—these entries amount to 13s. altogether—he left owing me a shilling—this writing is mine (referring to cash-book); I think I wrote it at the time—I could not be positive whether the account was written down on separate pieces of paper first and then copied out—it was certainly written within a day or two, if not at the time—probably I sent that receipt by post—he may have come to the office, as I have said; I do not exactly recollect—I will not say that that was not sent by post by me after he had left the society—I had a conversation with him, and he gave me these names—it is possible that was copied from this book.

Re-examined. I do not know whether the-prisoner referred to these entries when he paid this amount—I am not aware that he ever saw those entries—he referred to these names.

ELIZABETH WATT (recalled). It is not true that I had gone to join my husband in America; I have never been out of England—ray husband has deserted me.


1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-338a
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

338. WILLIAM HUDSON BELL was again indicted for unlawfully obtaining by false pretences orders-for the payment of 7l. 9s. 1d. and 1l. 10s., with intent to defraud.

MARTHA MAXSELL . I live at 28, Bandiman Street, Spa Road—in 1873 1 received a loan from the Charity Organisation Society of 1l. 10s. which I repaid in 1875—I had no second loan of If. 10s.—I applied personally to Mr. Bell for a loan in October, 1874—he said there would not-be a committee until the weather got colder—when I went again he said they would not continue lending out money he was afraid, but if it continued he would let me know—I went four or five times altogether to ask for the loan—I never received such a loan, or a card, and have never made any. repayments in respect of such loan.

Cross-examined. When I had the loan in 1873 Mrs. Mannell was my surety—she is not here—I have not got the card of the loan;-Mr. Bell had it when I finished paying up—I was working for Mr.-Bevington at the Neckinger Mills—when I saw Mr. Bell about the second loan it was about twelve months after the first—I had not long finished paying off the first when I asked for the second—I said "Idaresay Mrs. Mannell will be surety again for me;" that was the occasion on which he said he didn't know whether they would lend the money—I gave no other name than Mrs. Mannell—he said he would let me know—I received no post-card or letter from him—Mrs. Mannell was living at No. 30 in the'same street—she has moved.

FREDERICK CLARKE . I live at Bermondsey, and am a carman—I have not borrowed a sum of money from the Charity-Organisation Society through Mr. Bell; my brother, Henry Thomas Clarke, did—I have not paid any sums in connection with that loan.

Cross-examined. My mother applied for a loan for me—I have not made ray cross on the guarantee paper, nor have I seen it—my mother is in Australia—she went into the workhouse after—not when she was applying for the loan—my brother had a loan and paid back monies to Mr. Bell—I never saw Mr. Bell and had nothing to do with him—I did not live with my brother—proceedings were taken against me by the parish authorities to support my mother at the time the money was due—I did not keep out of the way—I paid—my brother appeared before the board the first board day—I cannot say how long it was before he appeared.

HUGH SMITH . I sec in the loan ledger an account opened to Frederick Clarke, dated 2nd July, 1874, loan 1l. 10s.—the prisoner has given credit for 1l. 1s. returned by instalments—the date I gave you was the first date of repayment—the first date of repayment in Martha Manseli'i account is 27th November, 1873—there is credit for 1l. 10s. repaic—I find another account in the name of Martha Mansell dated 18tl February, 1875, is. in black ink, 1s. in pencil, and 1l. 5s. in red ink—I cannot say when those entries in red ink were made—I signed this cheque on the Central Bank of London (produced)—my clerk drew It—these are the statements which I had every week—the prisoner had to show me a statement of the amount for which a cheque was required—I find "Frederick Clarke, 1l. 10s." which is included in the cheque for the larger amount (7l. 9s. 1d.) which was drawn on the faith that the loans had been applied for—I see another cheque here dated 6th February, 1875, for 14l. 2s. 6d. drawn by me—that account is in prisoner's handwriting, and included 1l. 10s. "Martha Mansell"—I gave him the cheque for the larger amount believing that the 1l. 10s. was required for the purpose of a loan to Mrs. Mansell.

Cross-examined. I should answer the questions you would ask me in the same way as before; you need not repeat them—1l. 2s. in this account (Mansell's) is in red ink—I should say Bell wrote the red ink—there is no date of the 1l. 2s.—I know well what this red ink is, though not of my own knowledge, that these are monies received by Bell after he left our employ—Mr. Burnett and Mr. Balfour would be able to tell—I am treasurer and only look after the banking—I know nothing about the guarantee paper returned to my society by the mother of Clarke—I have never had any notice to produce it served on me—as I have told you before, the system with the loans is that the matter comes before the committee, and I give a cheque on that paper which is brought to me by the agent, and he signs for it—the committee never dispense with a guarantor—I do not know that the money is paid to a guarantor—it might not be—I have never known the person applying refuse to take the loan when granted—I have known them refuse to have the necessary inquiries made—the 0l. 2s. 2d. may be for rent—I don't believe this is the document upon which I gave the cheque for 14l. 2s. 6d.;'it is in Bell's handwriting; but some of these documents were given back to the agent when he came, and the practice has been to initial these, and these are uninitialled, and my suspicion is that it is not the one on which I actually paid—every week the document is brought tome—I gave a cheque in respect of some such paper as this—I should not like to swear to this actual paper—I cannot answer the question—I don't think I ever gave a cheque for 9l. 2s. 2d.—there are the cheque books—these are the vouchers for payment in (produced)—I will say that that oheque for 14l. 2s. 6d. was given by me on the faith of the

paper produced to me by Bell at the time—but I cannot say whether that was this paper—if he had come to me for a cheque for 9l. 2s. 2d. I should not have given him a cheque for 14l. 2s. 6d.—the next cheque to that one given to Bell is 2l. odd—I don't know that it was on some other account gave the 14l. 2s. 6d.—there may be some other explanation of it—I never gave a cheque in February, 1875, for 9l. 2s. 2d.—I generally attend the committees; I should know about some of the loans—the cheque is filled up by my clerk from the paper, and on the faith that the cheque is right and the proper writing, I sign—I look to see what is on the paper I sign.

Re-examined. I see this statement containing "Martha Mansell"—that is the prisoner's handwriting I swear—unless my memory is incorrect this loan was actually ordered by the committee for Martha Mansell on the faith of Bell—I see in the cash book an entry "Martha Mansell, 1l. 10s"—in the ordinary course of business a cheque would be given by me including that amount—this book (produced)is for cases that come before us—the first one is "Granted loan of 1l. 10s. on security of Mrs. Mansell," and is signed "Rev. John Bowstead, Rector, member of the committee."

The Prisoner received an excellent character.


1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-339a
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > with recommendation
SentencesImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

339. JAMES HILLS (20) , Stealing 59 yards of linen of the goods-of Francis Boyce Lecky, and WILLIAM SAUNDERS (31) , Feloniously receiving the same.


MR. AUSTIN METCALFE conducted the Prosecution; and MR. SOMERVJLLE defended Saunders.

GEORGE WESTWOOD (City Policeman E 707). On the 10th April I was with two other detective constables in plain clothes in Cheapside when my attention was attracted to Hills, who was in charge of a barrow loaded with shirts—we followed him to several warehouses—he is in the employ of a shirt dresser and so collects goods from the warehouses he goes to—I followed till he got to Silver Street, when he left the barrow in charge of a boy. took his bag out of the barrow as" it is (produced) and went to Aldermanbury, Messrs. Lecky's, linen manufacturer—he stayed a few minutes.—when he came out he had something in the bag, which he placed in the front part of the barrow—we followed them to Ely Place, Kingsland Road, where Saunders lived, No. 4—the boy then left the other prisoner, Hills, and went into 4, Ely Place; Saunders came out with the boy and spoke to Hills—the boy was taken into custody at the time but was discharged at the police-court—Saunders came straight up to the barrow, Hills was standing on the barrow; they had some conversation—for-somd-minutes—Bowman was standing near, a few yards off at the time—he was not actually in conversation; the two men were in conversation by themselves—during the conversation Saunders continued to look up and down the road—I saw Hills lift up something in the front part of the barrow, which no doubt was the sack, and take out this parcel, a blue paper parcel, which turned out afterwards to be this (produced), and hand it to Sauuders—Saunders placed it under his coat and hurried into Ely Place—I did not see where he went; I did not see what house he went into; the other officer followed him—there are several marks on this parcel—Hills was taken into custody and Bowman, the boy; he was afterwards discharged.

Cross-examined. I was not 40 yards off when Saunders was given the parcel—I don't think Bowman stood within 4 or 5 yards of the two.—Saunders had a leather apron on—he did not hold his apron and Hills

pitch the parcel in; he handed it to him and he liftod his coat up in this way do not know that his apron was in the way—I am sure that he did not carry it in his apron for convenience.

ISAAC GILBERT (City Detective). I was with Westwood and Child, and I saw what happened—i saw Hills give Saunders the parcel, he stooped down, shoved it under his coat and ran into No. 4 with it—there is no truth in the suggestion that he put it in his apron—we went to the top of the court when Sauuders left his door and came up to me—he said "Holloa gov'ner!"—I said "Bill, where is that parcel that you just received of this man here"—he hesitated some time—I said "Iknow you have got it, for I saw you take it of this man"—he said "Come along gov'ner I will show you"—I took the key out of his pocket unlocked the door, and I went in and looked round the room and said "Where is it"—he pointed to a coal cupboard which was shut—I unfastened the cupboard door, and in the cupboard lay this parcel—there was nothing in the house like this—there might have been a very few coals in the cupboard, perhaps a peck or a few more—I asked him how he accounted for possession of the parcel—he said "Igot it of Hills"—I then told him he would bo charged with receiving that parcel well knowing it to be stolen"—he said "Idid'nt know it was stolen."

Cross-examined. At the police-court, I don't think I said that when I charged him with receiving it knowing it to be stolen he made no answer—I think he said "I didn't know it was stolen"—I knew the prisoner before—I was not familiar with him—I have not known anything against the prisoner previously—there were two pieces of coal in the cupboard and an, old tin shovel.

ROBERT CHILD . I was one of the other two constables—I have heard the evidence that has been given, and it is correct.

FREDERICK DOSSETT . I am a warehouseman in the employ of Mr. Lecky; I saw this parcel safe on the morning of the 10th April, about 9 o'clock, in the morning, when we opened the warehouse—no authority was given to anybody to take that parcel away—it is marked'inside and outside—" 21 SL" inside, and "21 S L" on the outside of the paper, and the length of the piece, the proper length is 58 3/4, 59 it is put—the value of it is 4l.

Cross-examined. The prisoner had been in the habit of coming and taking similar parcels.

SAUNDERS— GUILTYRecommended to mercy; he received a good character— Nine Months' Imprisonment .

HILLS PLEADED GUILTY to a former conviction on the 6th March, 1871— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment .

THIRD COURT,—Thursday, May 4th, 1876.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-340a
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

340. THOMAS EDWARD STUBBS BRASSINGTON (30) , Embezzling and stealing the sum of 20l. 14s. and divers other sums, of the monies of William Knibb, Appleton, and others, his masters.

MR. STRAIGHT and MR. MEAD conducted the Prosecution; and MR. MONTAGU WILLIAMS the Defence.

ALFRED MACHIN . I am a member of the firm of Haslam, Appleton, Co., tea merchants, 45, Eastcheap—in March, 1872, the prisoner entered our employment as traveller, at a salary of 100l. a year—afterwards he took up his abode at Newcastle and we increased his salary to 360l.—in June, 1873, I went to see how, he was getting on at Newcastle—I found that he had received one or two small amounts which he had not remitted and I told him it was altogether contrary to the arrangement and threatened him with dismissal, but having feeling for him I overlooked the matter and his arrangement went on—his instructions were to advise us of money the same day as received; it may be not possible to remit on the same day but it is on the neext—in October, 1873, I again communicated with him and I believe he came to London—in January, 1875; his salary was increased to 35l. a month—in June, 1875, an arrangement was come to that-Wheeler should be employed to assist him—he was his brother-in-law—in November, 1875, Brassington came to London—between these dates I was at Newcastle and saw the prisoner, and I told him the arrangement with his brother-in-law was thoroughly unsatisfactory and the sooner he could get Wheeler into some other employment the better—then in November following he came to London on matters of business generally—his salary was reduced 45l.—Wheeler had an additional 20l.—in February, 1876, I was informed by Brassington that Wheeler had got other employment—on 23rd March an investigation was made into the books by Mr. Betram—in consequence we sent a statement to Messrs. Byers & Young, our oustomers, of 85, Clayton Street, Newcastle-on-Tyne—it is the custom with our customers to allow three months' credit—we allow a discount for cash at the rate of 4 per cent. per annum, at the rate of 5 per cent per annum, four months' discount we allow—we wrote to the prisoner in the ordinary course, telling him that we had sent these statements—he did not know the contents—we gave him the amounts. (The statement teas handed in; it was addressed to Messrs. Byers & Young, containing different date and different sums, amounting to 246l. 14s. 6d., and asking for a remittance.)We received this memorandum (produced)for Byers &. Young—there were some items not included in the sum of 246l. 14s. 6d. because the three months' credit had not expired—we did not receive a cheque for 244l. 14s. from the prisoner on the 13th October with respect-to Messrs. Byers & Young's account; nor a cheque dated 22nd October for 89l., nor one dated the 29th October for 65l. 16s.—upon this we communicated with the prisoner and at once put ourselves in communication with the police—on the 25th—March we received this letter from the prisoner. (Read: " 71, Clayton Street, Newjastle-on-Tyne, March 24th 1876. Messrs. Haslam, Appleton, & Co. Gentlemen,—No orders. Byers & Co., Biddell's and 'Nicholson's accounts are paid. Particulars to-morrow.") The result of our communicating with the police was that he was taken into custody—we received this etter from him. (Read: "Old Jewry,"Thursday, 9 a.m. Messrs. Haslam, Appleton, & Co.—In God's name do not proceed further. I implore you with draw the charge before it is too late! For the sake of my poor wife! you cannot want her complete ruin. Yours obediently, T. E. S. Brassington. P.S.—An examination before the Magistrates will be worse than leath and irretrievable.")

Cross-examined. He is about thirty years of age he is married—we had to fault to find with him in any way as to his working at Newcastle—he as looked upon as a thorough business man—he took an office at Newcastle account of the firm—the firm pays the rent—we had no office there before—it was at his suggestion it was taken, whatever office expenses there were would be paid by him—I believe he did pay the-rent of the office at ne time—I have a doubt about it—we had nothing to do with Wheeler ourselves—it was Brassington's arrangement entirely—I made no objection to

his having an apprentice—we found out on the 25th March that the amounts had not been remitted—it is about a year and a half ago when I first spoke to him of the small amounts not being remitted—I believe in June 1873; he did not complain to me at that time of the expenses he hud been put toit is possible I may have said "You may have some slight justification for allowing your expenses to exceed the sum agreed upon," but I never wrote such a letter—he said he had some old debt which had put him in a corner and on that account he had used some small amounts of our monies—I believe that was in October, 1873—I believe he was 70l. behind hand—(a letter was handed to the witness)this is the handwriting of my partner Mr. Frederick Haslam—he is not here—there may be many letters my partner wrote that I know nothing about—it is a faet that for eighteen months prior to October, 1873, the defendant devoted himself to the opening of new ground—there was no "Slight justification" for his expenses to exceed the sum agreed upon—I had an interview with his wife after he was in custody—I did not offer to accept the money if he could get it—Mr. Webb was present—I believe he is here—it is possible other travellers are making something like a thousand a year on commision—I did not wish the defendant to receive commission—there was a conversation between him and me—he offered to go on commission like the others which I would have nothing to do with—he had authority from us to make what profits he pleased—to make the price a half-penny more or less.

Re-examined. Mr. Webb was present at the interview with his wife—he is, I believe, an experienced detective officer—I did not offer to adandon the prosecution, I may have said to the wife "I could not promise anything, but if she knew where he was I should advise her to come to London"—his salary was 35l. a month—he knew that was to cover his expenses when he agreed to the salary. (A letter from the prisoner to the firm dated October 28th, 1873, was read: "In reply to your favor of this day, I again beg to express my deep regret that I should have allowed myself to fall into, so gross an error" the error was the 70l." and am determined in future to merit the renewed confidence you now place in me. I herewith hand you a full and true account of all monies I owe, and I pledge myself faithfully to carry out the conditions in your letter. I am, &c, Brassington.") He sent a list and we had a new arrangement—before he was in custody and since he has never made a claim for expenses.

THOMAS BERTRAM . I am ledger clerk in the prosecutor's employ when an order is sent from Newcastle or elsewhere I make the entry and it is ultimately entered in the ledger by me—certain goods have been supplied to Byers & Young—we have (referring to ledger)no remittances of 24l. 1s. of the 13th October, 89l. of the 22nd October, and 65l. 16s. of the 29th October.

Cross-examined. I should not be able to tell at what rates of profits the teas were sold—there is nothing in the ledger to show that, nor the marks of the teas would not appear in it.

JOHN YOUNG . I am a member of the firm of Byers & Young—in October we were indebted to the prosecutors for tea supplied to us through the prisoner (a cluque for 20l. 1s. produced)—that is drawn by us, it was paid to the prisoner—this is a receipt signed by the prisoner for that cheque—these other cheques (produced)were also drawn by us and these receipts given—we always pay cash, we did not take the three months' credit which could have been allowed.

Cross-examined. Our place of business is at 85, Clayton Street, Newcastle—I knew the defendant quite well—I always looked upon him as a businesslike man, pushing and doing the best he could.

HENRY WEBB (City Detective Officer). I took the prisoner into custody at Birmingham on the 29th March—I went to Newcastle-on-Tyne, but did not find him there—he asked me to let him read the warrant, which I did; he said he had better not say anything at present—he then came with me to Birmingham and from there to London—he asked me how I knew where he was—I told him from his wife at Newcastle and that Mr. Machin was down there—he said he was very sorry and asked me if Mr. Machin was very bitter against him—I said No, he was not—he said he had sent a statement of his defalcations to the firm, which amounted to rather more than 740l., and he hoped the firm would be very lenient with him—I was present at an interview with the prisoner's wife and Mr. Machin—Mrs. Brassington said they were doing all they could to raise the money to pay the firm, and Mr. Machin said "Well, I cannot enter into that at all, where is your husband?" and she said he was not there, she would endeavour to get the money if she could and that he would come up to London by Thursday next—then the question arose "What time," and I think I said "Well, Mr. Machin will be back to London on Thursday morning, perhaps, by 11 o'clock."

Cross-examined. I did not hear Mr. Machin say He could not promise as he had not the permission of the other members of the firm—he did not say "You had better get the money"—the prisoner said he way trying all he could to get the money, so did Mrs. Brassington.

GUILTY Eighteen Month' Imprisonment.

There were oilier indictments against the Prisoner.

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-341a
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

341. JAMES WARD (42) , Feloniously uttering three forged requests or the payment of money.

MR. FULTON conducted the Prosecution.

ANN URBAN . I live at 12, New Bond Street, and am cook to Miss Perry—he prisoner called at my mistress's house on the 6th March—he said "If ur man leaves the book will you give it to him back again"—I asked him—he was his man—he said "Bisney & Jones, Piccadilly"—they are. utchers with whom we have an account—at that time we had a book of eirs, it had been left in the morning while I was out—the prisoner said There is a mistake in all the accounts, we wish to call in all the books day"—I hesitated in giving him the book, but ultimately did so—he ent away with it, but promised to bring it round the nest morning at 9 clock—he did not bring it, and I saw him again four weeks after, on onday, the 3rd April, in Cork Street—I followed him and missed him, it met him again coming up a mews—he had a reddish book in his hand id seemed to be doubling something up—I ran up to him and asked him bat he had done with the butcher's book that he called at Miss Perry's—he said "What butcher's book"—ho said he knew nothing at all out it—I said Yes, he did, he called for the butcher's book and forged iss Perry's name on a cheque to pay the account in the book—he said it is a mistake—about five or six young meu came up—he came with me Miss Perry's—when we got there I sent for a police-constable—I went the butcher and he gave him into custody.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I asked you to go with me to the policestation,

and you said "No, "You would not—you did ask me Miss Perry's address—I told you, but you knew—you went with me to Miss Perry's—I did hesitate giving you the book because I did not know who you were—I told Miss Perry you had called for the book—the book was called for between 11 and 12 o'clock, the bill was paid on the Monday afternoon.

Re-examined. I can swear this is not Miss Perry's handwriting (cheque produced).

CATHERINE BURR . I am bookkeeper to Mr. Scarlet, trading under the name of Bisney & Jones, Piccadilly, butchers—I recollect the prisoner coming to our shop on 6th March—he placed Miss Perry's book and this cheque on the desk—I said I did not think I could give him change as we had sent off to the bank—the amount of change he would require was 13l. 8s.—I found there was sufficient money, and I gave him the change; I have no doubt that the prisoner is the man.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I went to Vine Street police-station—I do not remember the inspector asking Mr. Scarlet if he knew anything about you—I said "Ifirmly believe him to be the man."

JOHN ROBERT SCARLET . I am a butcher trading under the name of Bisney & Jones—this cheque I received in the course of business, it was paid into the Agra Bank, and returned with "No account" upon it—this book I received from the cook, Ann Urban—I gave it up to Sergeant Brett.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I do not know you—I have not more than one shop in London—I do not know the handwriting on the cheque.

JAMES ROBERT IRWYNN . I am cashier to the Agra Bank—we have no account with a Richard Barclay, this cheque is not in the form in which ours are generally issued.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I do not know you—I never saw you at our bank, to the best of my knowledge.

JAMES BRETT (City Detective). The prisoner was given into the custody of a police-constable by Mr. Scarlet—I received this book from Mr. Scarlet—on examining it I found the name of Mr. Scarlet in the book, and also "M. A. R," a space, and then a "P."—some of the writing apparently was the same as on the cheque.

ANN URBAN (recalled). When I met the prisoner I saw someone offer him a red book—I had seen him with a book in his hand—the gentleman asked him "Does this belong to you?"—he said "No," and threw it down, and it was picked up.

JAMES BRETT (Cross-examined by the Prisoner). I searched you at the police-station; I found a book on you, which I gave to the inspector—I do not know if he gave it to you back again—there was one line of writing in it, what I should take to be shorthand.

Witness for the Prisoner.

JAMES GREIG . I am a baker, of 4s., South Audley Street, Grosvenor Square—a detective called on me on the 3rd of last month, and said he had got a man in custody answering the description of the man who passed the cheque to me—he said "Iwish you would come down with me and see if you can identify him"—that is how I came to the police-station—I have no recollection of his describing the man—I went down with him; I recognised the prisoner as the man who had passed a cheque upon me—it was on the same bank and in the same handwriting.

The prisoner, in his defence, stated that it was a case of mistaken identity, that no one had actually seen him in possession of the book.


The prisoner also PLEADED GUILTY to having been before convicted, and other convictions were proved against him— Ten Years' Penal Servitude .

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-342a
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

342. HARRIETT DAVIS (22) and AGNES COURTNEY (23) , Stealing a purse, three keys, one snuff-box, and 10s. of Auguste Maurier.

MR. TICKELL conducted the Prosecution; and MR. C. MATHSEWS defended Davis.

AUGUSTE MAURIER (interpreted). I am a hairdresser, living at 124, Castle Street, Leicester Square—I met the two prisoners near Hyde Park about 9 o'clock on the 2nd April—I understood by their signs they wanted me to go home with them—I said "No"—I went into a public-house alone to get rid of them—I had a glass of ale, and then suddenly found the two were there—they molested me, and wanted something to drink—they had something, for which I paid with small money out of this purse (produced)—I left the public-house, and when about twelve steps away they came up to me; one pulled me one side and the other pulled me the other side, and asking me to go with them—I suddenly felt I was robbed—I then found my purse containing 2l. 8s. or 2l. 10s. gone, also a bunch of three keys and a snuff-box—I stepped them both, a policeman came up, and I at once gave them into custody—these articles (produced)are mine—I last saw them about 9 o'clock in the evening—I was sober.

Cross-examined by MR. MATHEWS. I was returning from Brompton, where I had been out to dinner—this was on a Sunday—I had been drinking beer for dinner; I had none before dinner—I had some glasses with a friend between 12 and 1 o'clock in the day—I had not been drinking in the afternoon—I went into the Park for a walk, where I heard preaching going on—I went into the public-house alone to get rid of the prisoners; my intention was to come out of another door—I did say I went into the public-house with the prisoners—whatever I may have said, I went in alone, and they came close after me—there were several persons there.

Cross-examined by Courtney. I certainly met you alone in Piccadilly, but you made a sign to the other and she came up—I was not alone with you or half an hour, hardly a second—I did not want to go with you to a house in Leicester Square—I paid for the last drink in the public-house.

FREDERICK FAALKER (Policeman C 148). The prosecutor called to me and harged Davis alone—I took her into custody—Courtney followed to the tation—the prosecutor had been drinking a good deal, but he seemed to now what he was about—the keys and the snuff-box were given to me by wo witnesses.

GEORGE THOMAS JAMES . I live at 22, Golden Square—on the night of be 2nd April I saw the prisoners and the prosecutor—I heard him say "I ant my money"—I heard something drop, I went to it, and found this bunch of keys (produced); they were alongside the prisoner Harris—I saw courtney about 2 or 3 yards from her—just as she was going to Vine Street lice-station she dropped a snuff-box—I saw Cunningham pick it up—there is nobody else near Davis.

Cross-examined by MR. MATHEWS. There were about a dozen people mding round and fifteen following to the station.

ANDREW CUNNINGHAM . I live at 18, Golden Square—on the night of the id April, about 11.30 I heard a noise—I saw Davis taken into custody—courtney went to the station—I followed them—I saw Courtney on the

way to the station take a snuff-box out of her right hand pocket and drop it on the ground; this is the one (produced).

Courtney's Statement before the Magistrate "He accosted me in Leicester Square and he was very drunk. I was with him about half an hour and met this young woman, and asked her if she knew of a house to take him to. I never saw a purse, ho took the money from his pocket; I know nothing of the keys or the snuff-box."


1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-343a
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

343. GEORGE HARRIS (20) , Unlawfully attempting to steal certain goods, chattels, and monies, of John Farrow.

MR. C. MATHEWS conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS CRESSWELL (Policeman G 73). At 1.30 on the morning of the 4th April, I was passing up Frederick Street—a ory of "Stop thief!" attracted my attention, and I saw three persons running—the prisoner was one of them—they were running down Frederick Street from the direction of the Olive Branch, the prosecutor's—I stopped the prisoner, the others got away; he tried to get out of his coat—I took him back to the Olive Branch and called the prosecutor, who found his back parlour "window had been broken and the shutters were down and placed near the parlour door—the prisoner was charged—he made no remark.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I was running after you—I was in the middle of Frederick Street, about 20 yards from the Gray's Inn Road.

JOHN FARROW . I keep the Olive Branch public-house, No. 223, Gray's Inn Road—on the evening of the 3rd April the back parlour window was closed, and the shutters were put up outside—the curtain was not down—at that time the glass was whole—at 12.30 I last saw it so—at a quarter to 2 o'clock my attention was again called to it and if was then down 14 inches and two squares of glass broken—the prisoner was brought to me by the last witness and charged with attempted burglary.

JOSEPH BUSSEY . I am a cab washer—I live at 111, Brunswick Street—I am working in Sidmouth Mews—my attention on this morning was attracted by a smashing of glass—I was about 40 yards up the yard—I turned round and saw three young men running out of the yard, but who they were I could not say—I ran after them as quick as possible and cried out "Stop thief"—the prisoner was brought back by the constable and I met them about half-way down Frederick Street—I did not run further—I lost sight of them—the smash I heard was as if it came from the parlour window of the Olive Branch, but how I could not say.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. When I lost sight of these men two cabmen standing together told me which way they had gone.

HENRY HARRIS (Policeman E 49). On the morning of the 4th April, at 1.30,1 was at the corner of Harrison Street, Gray's Inn Road—I heard a cry "Stop thief," and I saw about half a dozen men run out of the Sidmouth Mews, into Frederick Street, and I was about to run after them when I saw the witness seize the prisoner—I could see the corner of Sidmouth Mews—I did not lose sight of the prisoner altogether from the time he left the Mews, until ho was taken—I saw the witness Bussey pursuing him, crying "Stop thief"—I went to the Olive Branch afterwards and found the window as described.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. A gentleman, a friend of the landlord's, said you were not one of the men that ran away.


1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-344a
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

344. WILLIAM MASON (42) , Feloniously breaking and entering the shop of William Tayler, and stealing therein three shawls, four woollen shirts, and other goods, his property.

MR. AUSTIN MR. AUSTIN METCALFE conducted the Prosecution

WILLIAM TAYLER . I carry on business as a tailor and draper, at 113, Minories—on the Saturday night, the 1st April, no one was sleeping on the premises—I and the porter were the last to leave—I saw the place locked up, at about 6 o'clock—the door was bolted—I left some cash in my private desk which was open—I think the amount was 16l.—I identify these coins and these goods (produced)—there was some clothes left behind—I found an old coat.

DAVID RICHARDS (City Policeman C 765). On the 3rd April, I was on duty in the Minories, not in uniform—about 3.50 in the morning, I saw the prisoner coming up out of a grating from the premises of Mr. Tayler—I went to the grating and found I could lift it up—it was not fast—I followed the prisoner with another constable; I caught him and said "Where did you come from"—he made no reply then—he afterwards said "I had been drinking last night, I went to see my girl; I fell down and hurt myself"—he did not mention the grating—I asked him "What have you got about you; "He looked rather bulky—he unbuttoned his overcoat, he was wearing (produced), and said "I have nothing about me"—I then unbuttoned an undercoat and saw a shawl wrapped round his waist, and under that were two others—he said "That belongs to my girl, I am going to take it home and take care of it for her"—I said "You have more about you"—I noticed he was wearing a new pair of trousers with a ticket on it of the price—I told the constable about it and took the prisoner back to the grating and said "Is this the place you came up out of"—he said "Yes, it is no use denying it, I took the things from there"—I then took him to the station and searched him—I found on him three. new flannel shirts and new trousers, two now waistcoats, one new body coat, one new overcoat, 16s. in silver, and two knives—there is a franc which was amongst the silver in his trousers pocket—he had bis own trousers on as well—I produce a candle and matches, and screwdriver, handed to me by the other constable. George Measure (Police Sergeant 65). I examined the premises shortly after the occurrence referred to—I found the window beneath the grating was open on the ground floor; I found a lighted candle outside the shop door—the door had been forced open—at the top of the banisters I found a waistcoat, a woollen shirt, a pair of trousers, and an old coat; they were banging on the banisters—I produce a bolt which was forced off the door—I found the desk had been forced open and a number of things lying about—I took the old coat to the station, and the prisoner said "That belongs to me; give it to me. I feel rather cold, and I will put it on."

GUILTY . He also

PLEADED GUILTY to a previous conviction, and others were woved against him— Ten Years' Penal Servitude .

OLD COURT.—Friday, May 5th, 1876.

Before Mr. Recorder.

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-345a
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

345. FREDERICK HENRY GARNIER (27) , Unlawfully obtaining by Use pretences 100l. from Charles Watts, 100l. from Charles Craven Duriment, 100l. from Henry Harris, and 100l. from William John Somers, by false pretences.

MR. F. H. LEWIS conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES CRAVEN DURIMENT . I am now in the employment of a land agent in the Strand—in February, 1873, I saw an advertisement in the "Daily Telegraph," upon which I wrote to 31, Great Marlborough Street, and received a reply making an appointment—I then went to 31, Great Marlborough Street, and saw the prisoner—he told me he was in business with Mr. Lawrence, of Dublin, who had a large business there in Sackville Street, and kept sixteen clerks, and that he managed the London business, which was a branch of the Dublin business, and that they were auctioneers, house and estate and financial agents—he afterwards showed me a book full of blank deposit notes, and said that the clerks were so satified of their integrity that they deposited monies with them for terms of three, six, and nine months, at various rates of interest, and allowed them to. use it in the business; in fact, that it was the nucleus of a bank—he opened the book and showed me perhaps a dozen counterfoils, on which were shown various large sums of money, purporting to have been so deposited by clerks—he asked me where I had been employed, and for my references, which I told him, and he said that there had been many applications for the situation, and as soon as he had made a selection he would write and let me know—he said that he should require security, as I should most likely have a good deal of money passing through ray hands, and that money must be deposited as security for my honesty, for which he would allow me 10 per cent, interest—I asked how he could afford to pay me 10 per cent, when money in the market, as a rule, brought only 5—he said that they had opportunities, as they lent money on bills of sale and turned the money over several times in the course of the year—I received this letter from the prisoner afterwards—I know the writing; it is his signature—upon that I went to his office on 1st March for the purpose of being engaged—I deposited 100l. with him as security, and he gave me a receipt—he said that several of Mr. Laurance's clerks had absconded, and that he would take no more unless they deposited a cash security—he then drew up this letter, and submitted it to my father, who was with me:—"March 1st, 1873. Sir,—We hereby agree to engage you as a clerk in our office at a weekly salary! of 2l. for twelve months, and we hereby acknowledge to have received 100l. to bear interest at 10 per cent., to be repaid to you at the end of twelve months, should you leave our employ. Laurance and Garnier." (Deposit not read: "This is to certify that Mr. C. C. Duriment has deposited with us 100l., bearing interest at 10 per cent. This deposit note becomes dne on 1st March, 1874, and on that day we agree to pay the amount," &c. Laurance and Garnier, Financial Agents.) I entered the employment, and received 2l. a week for a time, but it began to fall off about July—the prisoner was at the office every day—I do not think the Bishopsgate office had been taken then—we were principally employed in looking through the papers and writing to people who advertised their property to let, to place it in our hands, and going to see people on financial matters—he got from other agents a payment of half commission if he could get certain arrangements made, and we had to go to solicitors and offer them another division of commision if they could carry out business with their clients—very few people came to the office except on such business as that—on 19th November I went to the prisoner with the other clerks, seven of us, I think—about four weeks', or 8l. 10s., of my salary was then overdue—we said that we must have some money, that he had given us no salary and we could not go on, and we should take criminal proceedings against him—he said that be

should pay us, but we must give him time; that Mr. Laurance was away in Sligo, I think, and he could not get a cheque from him—we got 5l. each that day, and I think we got deposits of 5l. 10s. and sometimes a half-crown afterwards, and we had another instalment of 5l. at Christmas—that was the only time we had a full week's salary at one time—he left on 23rd of February, 1874, and I did not see him at either place of business—I knew that a summons had been taken out against him—I did not see him again till 1st April, 1876, when he was in custody—I did not get my 110l. when March 1st came round.

Cross-examined. I could not write to Mr. Laurance to ascertain the truth of his statements, because you did not give mo his address—I made no inquiries about your character or the stability of the firm—I think I understood that my 100l. was to be used in the business, but it was not stipulated in that particular manner—I was in your employ eleven months and three weeks and you owed me 18l. 15s. salary when you left—I actually received 83l. 15s., and my salary for fifty-two weeks would be 104l.—I only in three instances had to do anything which was a source of clear profit—I went to Carlisle about a mortgage on some mills, and to Southampton about a bill of sale, which was carried out, and to Holloway to make an inventory for another bill of sale, which was carried out—I remember Mr. Finch and Mr. Wood conjointly taking out a summons against you at Marlborough Street for obtaining money under false pretences—I do not think Mr. "Wood's money was due then—30l. was the only sum that passed through my hands—I recollect your engaging a clerk named Jennings, and a portion of his money being returned to him, because he wished to go;, he agreed to take 80l. in. return for his 100l. and 367., I believe, it was, which he had lent you—this (produced)is his deposit note—he agreed to give you a full discharge for 80l. on the consideration that you gave him a bill of sale on his furniture, which had another bill of sale on it at the time, so you told me—I was never in Reading Gaol, except as a visitor, and I deny telling you that I had Mr. M. Williams for my counsel—I did not look in the Directory for your address, because you have been using so many names that I did not think it at all likely that I should find you there in your own name—I did not tell you on the Saturday before 23rd February that the best thing you could do was to abscond, or that it would be the best thing for me and the other clerks—I deny saying that in the event of your not appearing a warrant would be taken out against you, but that it could be arranged with me and the other clerks.

Re-examined. I believed that Mr. Laurance resided in Dublin, and that there was a genuine branch of the business there, those facts amongst other reasons induced me in depositing the 100l.—had I believed that the business which came to the office was the business only of solicitation I should not have deposited the 100l.—I deposited it as security for my honesty, although it might be used in the business.

By THE COURT. I deposited the money with him in consequence of my belief in his statements—I had seen his name in advertisements before I had any communication with him and the advertisements stated "And of Dublin"—his note paper was very good. (This had a printed heading "Laurance & Gamier, auctioneers, &c. Sales by auction or private treaty," &c.)

WILLIAM M. LAURANCE . I carry on business with my brother in Sackville Street, Dublin, as general fancy merchants—I do not know the prisoner—I

first saw him on Wednesday last when he was arraigned—I was never in partnership with him and never authorised him to make use of my name—I was never under obligation to send him money, I never saw or heard him—I know Sackville Street, Dublin, very well, I was born there—no other person of my name carries on business there—I have heen in business there sixteen years—some one named Finch wrote to me, and I made inquiries at the Post-office and the Bank, and if there had been any other Laurance in Sackville Street employing sixteen clerks I must have known it.

Cross-examined. I have received no other enquiries or complaints that you have represented yourself as being connected with me.

WILLIAM J. SOMERS . I live in Linfield Square—I am not now in any business—in March, 1873, I saw an advertisement in the "Daily Telegraph" similar to this (produced), but I do not think this is it—in consequence of that I wrote to 31, Great Marlboreugh Street, and afterwards went there and saw the prisoner—I asked him first to take me as clerk on my own references—he said that he could not do that and asked me to pay him 150l. deposit which would be put in the business—he said that he was bound to do so, owing to several clerks having absconded and done Mr. Laurance out of several sums of money—he said that he was in partnership with Mr. Laurance—I asked him "where Mr. Laurance was—he said that he was in Dublin engaged for a few days and I could not see him—he said that he had an office in Dublin and Mr. Laurance was there transacting some financial business for the firm—I ultimately deposited 100l. and he gave me a deposit note for it at 10 per cent.—I believed it to be a genuine business and believed what he said about Mr. Laurance—I was in his service about two months when he told me he had another clerk coming the following week and he should not require my services afterwards—I asked him for my 100l, he said that it was not due for twelve months and that it was not convenient to pay me then, but as soon as he could manage it he would send it to me—I put it in a solicitor's hands, but have never got a farthing.

Cross-examined. I first came to my duties on April 1st, 1873—I do not recollect you telling me that I was totally unfit to do the commonest little piece of office work—I do not deny that when you have sent me to transact business at John's Wood and Hampstead you have seen me with a lady strolling along Piccadilly or Gresham Street smoking cigars—I do no not remember you mentioning that as one of your reasons for dismissing me—I did not agree when you dismissed me to let my deposit note stand over entirely to suit your convenience.

By THE COURT. I was induced to part with the 100l. by the statement with regard to Mr. Laurance and the Dublin business; I do not think I should have parted with it if he had not told me that, not if he was merely carrying on business by himself without a partner—I made no enquiries about the truth of his statements; I believed him.

HENRY HARRIS . About 25th August I "saw an advertisement in the" Daily Telegraph, "Not worded exactly like the one produced—I communicated with the prisoner by letter, and on the next day I received an answer from him, in consequence of which I called at 31, Great Marlborough Street and told him that I called in reference to my application—he took me into his private room and asked me if I had brought the money he had mentioned in his letter—this is his letter. (This wax signed by the prisoner, stating that he had read the witness's testimonials, and had no objection to engage him for his city office at a salary of 2l. per week from the next Monday, but should require a deposit of 100l., which would bear 5 per cent, interest.)

He said that the firm had been in existence twelve years in Dublin, Mr. Lawrance being the head of the firm, that they employed clerks at the head office in Ireland; that Mr. Laurance would only come to London two or three times a year, and that the security was required because two clerks in the head office in Dublin had a short time previously absconded with nearly 300l. each, and in consequence Mr. Laurance would engage no clerk unless 100l. in cash was placed in their hands as security—I asked him if my testimonials were not good enough without any security—rhe said "No," and that Mr. Laurance would not have it, no matter how good testimonials were; it was done to save the firm from any losses—he then showed me some papers relating to business that was being done by the firm, one in Buckinghamshire, another in Herefordshire, and another in Cardiganshire—at another interview there was another conversation to the same effect, and on 2nd September, 1873,1 deposited 100l. in his hands as security for my honesty—he said that it would be sent to Mr. Laurance, who would see that it was put away safely until the time for it—to be returned in twelve months—I parted with my money on the faith of his statements—I was in his employ till 23rd, February, 1874—I was told that I should have to take hundreds of pounds a day, but the only business I saw done was one guinea taken—I recollect an advertisement in the "Times" relating to an invalid gentleman.; numbers of persons called, and the prisoner told them that unless they gave a 5s. fee they could not be registered—some of them paid the 5s.—I knew of no invalid gentleman, and after they had paid the money they came and created, a disturbance about the door because they could not get any information—I recollect an application from a lady in Shropshire for a loan—a fee of 1l.; 1s. was required before it was attended to; that "is not the. guinea I referred to—the letter was pooh-poohed as soon as the money was paid, he said that the references were no good—he said the Devil's Bridge in Cardiganshire was to be disposed of through him in a few days, and that the lowest price was 80,000l.; but when I came to the office I never heard any more about it—knowing that that estate was for sale greatly induced me to part with my money.

Cross-examined. I commenced duty on 3rd September, 1873, and stayed in your employ till the business was suspended in 1874—you were seven weeks, 14l., in my debt when you left—I recollect on 19th November, 1873, Mr. Finch producing two letters from Laurance & Co., of Dublin—you did lid not deny in the presence of us all having any connection with that gentleman; you said that you could bring Mr. Laurance who would come iver from Dublin whenever it was necessary—I took your word that you rere doing a large business in London and Dublin—you said that you had offices in Sackville Street, Dublin, and that the next batch of note paper could have the Dublin address as well as the London one on it, as it was in oversight that the Dublin address was not on it then—I know that Mr. Uithony, who was in your employ, also deposited 100l.—I do not know that be prosecutor threatened him with personal voilence for refusing to join us—I had nothing to do with the prosecution—my money was not due when be first summons was taken out, but you had made a verbal agreement ith me that I could have it whenever I wished to leave—I could not get egular pay from you, only 1s. or 5s. at a time—I received 4l. on 21st November and 1l. afterwards, making 5l., and 5l. more on 23rd or 24th december—this (produced)is a notice which I wrote to you to return my

100l. with interest, namely, 101l. 5s.; you told me to write that and this is your reply. (This stated that the witness' engagement was for twelve month, and that if he left before it would be at his own risk)I stopped with you after that because you said that I could not leave without your consent, and I was too much in need of money—my 100l. was not to be used, it was to be sent to Mr. Laurance, and you told me so, and how that you had had a letter from Mr. Laurance saying that the money had been properly secured.

Re-examined. I was to be at liberty to have back my money on leaving, and that influenced me.

CHARLES WATTS . In consequence of an advertisement in the "Telegraph," in 1873, I went to 31, Great Marlborough Street—my father went with me, we saw the prisoner, who said that he was a partner in the firm of Laurance & Gurnier, of Sackville Street, Dublin, which had been established there twelve years, and that security was required, because previously, some clerk had absconded with 3,000l.—I wished to give the security of the Guarantee Society, but he said that it was against the rule of the firm, Mr. Laurance would not have it—my father agreed to deposit the money on my behalf, and did so—I am the person who afterwards discovered the prisoner's address—I saw an advertisement in the "Telegraph "Purporting to come from A. Webster & Co. for a clerk, and requiring 50l. security, I replied to it and received this letter, which I recognised as the prisoner's writing. (This was signed Arthur Webster March 28,1876. Dover Castle Hotel, Calais. To H. Graham, Esq., requesting him to call at the writer's private residence, 32, Paulton Square, Chelsea, between 12 and 1 o'clock next day.)I had taken the name of Graham for the purpose of concealment—I did not go there but wrote and made another appointment and communicated with the police, and an officer in plain clothes went and personated Mr. Graham and took him in custody.

Cross-examined. I did not see you when I first called, I saw Mr. Durimenfc and showed him the advertisement, he said that the salary was 2l. a week, and 100l. cash security for honesty—I afterwards called with my father and saw you—I was to receive 25s. a week for six months and then 30s.—about 8l. salary was due to me when you went away—my work was principally entering property in the books, cutting out advertisements in the "Times," and writing to the advertisers—I do not know whether any business was done—you published this "Weekly Register" (produced)—I cannot say whether the properties here are entered with the owner's instructions, but fifty circulars came back through the post which actually contained instructions—there are 250 in the book, because properties were obtained in other ways than by canvassing—I do not know of your placing any properties in the book falsely.

Re-examined. I do not know of any business which was brought to the office—very few people called on business, there may have been one or two—I never saw any business carried through, but there might have been.

WILLIAM FOSTER WATTS . I have heard my son's evidence: it is correct—the prisoner said that the house was connected with Laurance & Gamier, of Dublin, a large house established twelve years, and that he should require 100l. cash deposit; I objected to that and asked to see Mr. Laurance—he said that Mr. Laurance was very seldom in London—I offered my name as security or to place stock or shares in his name to that amount, but he said it was contrary to the rules of the house; that he had been

robbed by clerks stealing some mortgage deeds, and they could not depart from the usual custom—he asked me if my son was a good sailor, I said that he had not been accustomed to the sea—he said that he would have occasionally to go to the house of business in Dublin, and that as he was a young man he would only have 1l. 5s. a week, which would be yearly increased, and that 100l. would be put into Mr. Laurance's hands in Dublin, and put out to interest, I believed his statements and asked him for a reference—he said "It is unnecessary you see, I have clerks and offices, and I cannot move away from here"—there were three clerks there—he said that he was going to Scotland next evening, and wanted the money settled—I called next morning and paid him 100l.,

Cross-examined. I saw you in the first instance, and afterwards your clerk Duriment—I was to be allowed 5l. per cent, interest, and the money was to be returned at the end of twelve months—I made inquiries of a stock broker about the firm of Laurance & Ganier, in Dublin, and he could find no such name, but that was after I had paid the money—we caused Mr. Webster's advertisement to be answered because we suspected that it was you—my son left your office because you absconded when the summons was issued.

By THE COURT. When I went I saw several clerks apparently employed; there was an office desk and a table, and every appearance of business being carried on, but I should not have advanced my money if he had not made the representations about the business in Dublin.

GEORGE DAY (Policeman C 19). On 1st April, I went to, 32, Panlton Square, Chelsea—I was shown into a room and introduced as Mr. H. Graham—I saw the prisoner and said that I had come about the letters he had sent me—he said "Take a seat Mr. Graham"—I sat down and had a conversation for about a minute—he said "I will go upstairs and get some papers"—I said "Iam an officer and have come to apprehend you, I have been looking for you for two years, I apprehend you for obtaining 100l. from Mr. Finch"—he said "I have paid Mr. Finch a large sum of money"—I said "There are others, Mr. Duriment, Mr. Watts, and Mr. Anthony"—he said "I am sure Mr. Anthony will not appear against me, he is a very good fellow and will not appear"—he afterwards told me that he had been in France, and met a Mr. Webster, in Calais, who wanted him. to start the Business of a turf agency, but he did not like to do so in his own name, and Mr. Webster gave him leave to use his.

Cross-examined. A summons was issued by the Magistrate since your committal for the production of your books and papers, and I went to 31, Great Marlborough Street—the safe was broken open and this deposit book and ledger (produced)were found there—here is an entry in your own writing relating to Mr. Laurence, of Dublin—it is "W. B. Laurance, Esq., rofit as agreed 31l. 10s.; February 8th, profit as agreed 3l. 10s.; April 20th, profit as agreed 3l. 10s."—here is another entry, "W. B. Laurance, Esq., Dublin, March 15th, 1873; in consequence of our having this day lissolved partnership, &c., and after dividing the profit of the Irish business, ic., I agree to take your bill at three months for my share of the business,"—here is another entry "Profit re Laurance & Ganier, out of Irish 'business alone, and not counting capital 300l."

Witness for the Defence.

SAMUEL ANTHONY . I was engaged at your City office, but had ample leans of seeing what was going on at the West-end office—I called and saw

100l. with interest, namely, 101l. 5s.; you told me to write that and this is your reply. (This stated that the witness' engagement was for twelve months, and that if he left before it would be at his own risk.)I stopped with you after that because you said that I could not leave without your consent, and I—was too much in need of money—my 100l. was not to be used, it was to be sent to Mr. Laurance, and you told me so, and how that you had had a letter from Mr. Laurance saying that the money had been properly secured.

Re-examined. I was to be at liberty to have back my money on leaving, and that influenced me.

CHARLES WATTS . In consequence of an advertisement in the "Telegraph," in 1873, I went to 31, Great Marlborough Street—my father went with me, we saw the prisoner, who said that he was a partner in the firm of Laurance & Ganier, of Sackville Street, Dublin, which had been established there twelve years, and that security was required, because previously, some clerk had absconded with 3,000l.—I wished to give the security of the Guarantee Society, but he said that it was against the rule of the firm, Mr. Laurance would not have it—my father agreed to deposit the money on my behalf, and did so—I am the person who afterwards discovered the prisoner's address—I saw an advertisement in the "Telegraph "Purporting I to come from A. Webster & Co. for a clerk, and requiring 50l. security, I; replied to it and received this letter, which I recognised as the prisoner's writing. (This was signed Arthur Webster March 28,1876. Dover Castle Hotel) Calais. To H. Graham, Esq., requesting him to call at the writer's private residence, 32, Paulton Square, Chelsea, between 12 and 1 o'clock next day.)I had taken the name of Graham for the purpose of concealment—I did not go there but wrote and made another appointment and communicated with the police, and an officer in plain clothes went and personated Mr. Graham and took him in custody.

Cross-examined. I did not see you when I first called, I saw Mr. Duriment and showed him the advertisement, he said that the salary was 2l. a week, and 100l. cash security for honesty—I afterwards called with my father and saw you—I was to receive 25. a week for six months and then 30s.—about 8l. salary was due to me when you went away—my work was prin cipally entering property in the books, cutting out advertisements in the "Times," and writing to the advertisers—I do not know whether any business was done—you published this "Weekly Register" (produced)—I cannot say whether the properties here are entered with the owner's instructions, but fifty circulars came back through the post which actually contained instructions—there are 250 in the book, because properties were obtained in other ways than by canvassing—I do not know of your placing any properties in the book falsely.

Re-examined. I do not know of any business which was brought to the office—very few people called on business, there may have been one or two—I never saw any business carried through, but there might have been.

WILLIAM FOSTER WATTS . I have heard my son's evidence: it is correct—the prisoner said that the house was connected with Laurance & Garnier, of Dublin, a large house established twelve years, and that he should require 100l. cash deposit; I objected to that and asked to see Mr. Laurance—he said that Mr. Laurance was very seldom in London—I offered my name as security or to place stock or shares in his name to that amount, but he said it was contrary to the rules of the house; that he had been

robbed by clerks stealing some mortgage deeds, and they could not depart from the usual custom—he asked me if my son was a good sailor, I said that he had not been accustomed to the sea—he said that he would have occasionally to go to the house of business in Dublin, and that as he was a young man he would only have 1l. 5s. a week, which would be yearly increased, and that 100l. would be put into Mr. Laurance's hands in Dublin, and put out to interest, I believed his statements and asked him for. a reference—he said "It is unnecessary you see, I have clerks and offices, and I cannot move away from here"—there were three clerks there—he said that he was going to Scotland next evening, and wanted the money settled—I called next morning and paid him 100l.

Cross-examined. I saw you in the first instance, and afterwards your clerk Duriment—I was to be allowed 5l. per cent, interest, and the money was to be returned at the end of twelve months—I made inquiries of a stock broker about the firm of Laurance & Ganier, in Dublin, and he could find no such name, but that was after I had paid the money—we caused Mr. Webster's advertisement to be answered because we suspected that it was yo—my son left your office because you absconded when the summons was issued.

By THE COURT. When I went I saw several clerks apparently employed; there was an office desk and a table, and every appearance of business being carried on, but I should not have advanced my money if he had not made the representations about the business in Dublin.

GEORGE DAY (Policeman C 19). On 1st April, I went to, 32, Paulton Square, Chelsea—I was shown into a room and introduced as Mr. H. Graham—I saw the prisoner and said that I had come about the letters he had sent me—he said "Take a seat Mr. Graham"—I sat down and had a conversation for about a minute—he said "I will go upstairs and get some papers"—I said "Iam an officer and have come to apprehend you,. I have been looking for you for two years, I apprehend you for obtaining 100l. from Mr. Finch"—he said "I have paid Mr. Finch a large sum of money"—I said "There are others, Mr. Duriment, Mr. Watts, and Mr. Anthony"—he said "I am sure Mr. Anthony will not appear against me, he is a very good fellow and will not appear"—he afterwards told. me that he had been in France, and met a Mr. Webster, in Calais, who wanted him to start the business of a turf agency, but he did not like to do so in his own name, and Mr. Webster gave him leave to use his.

Cross-examined. A summons was issued by the Magistrate since your committal for the production of your books and papers, and I went to 31, Great Marlborough Street—the safe was broken open and this deposit book and ledger (produced)were found there—here is an entry, in your own writing relating to Mr. Laurence, of Dublin—rit is "W. B. Laurance, Esq., profit as agreed 31l. 10s; February 8th, profit as agreed 31l. 10s.; April 20th, profit as agreed 31l. 10s."—here is another entry, "W. B. Laurance, Esq., Dublin, March 15th, 1873-; in consequence of our having this day dissolved partnership, &c., and after dividing the profit of the Irish business, &c, I agree to take your bill at three months for my share of the business," &c.—here is another entry "Profit re Laurance & Gamier, out of Irish business alone, and not counting capital 300l."

Witness for the Defence.

SAMUEL ANTHONY . I was engaged at your City office, but had ample means of seeing what was going on at the West-end office—I called and saw

you and understood you to be the partner of Mr. Laurance, who was engaged in land surveying in Ireland—you did not tell me that he kept twenty clerks or that he had been in business twelve years—I subsequently deposited 100l. with you and entered your service—there was abundance of business as regards house letting, there were several hundred houses, and every one had an owner who may have given you a commission of 5 per cent, for letting it—one estate realised 900l. commission, which would give you 500l. Profit—you did not get it, because the estate passed into other hands—these (produced)are the particulars of it, it consisted of 450 acres of land and two farms in Buckinghamshire—you spent 60l. out of your own pocket in trying to sell that estate—you had posters and placards printed and circulated in Buckinghamshire and Berkshire, I have no doubt that the advertisement appeared in the "Times," "Morning Post," "Field," and other papers.

By THE JURY. The firm were instructed by the owner to sell that property, it was the Seawood estate—I have not got the instructions here, but the prisoner told me that he received instructions from the owner—I do not know it in any other way—I did not see anybody from the owner, but I know the gentleman who bought it, he came to the office occasionally.

By the Prisoner. I remember the meeting of 19th November, 1873—Duriment and Harris threatened you with criminal proceedings—Lynch took out a summons against you—I think if time had been given you you would have been able to clear off these debts—none of these prosecutors' money was due when they joined Finch in 1874—I think you tried to do the best you could to do business—I know that your friend, Mr. Reynolds, assisted you, he brought you 25l. when the rumpus was—I do not know that he lent you 120l.—Mr. Stourbar, of Sunderland, helped you to the extent of 200l., that was the current report in the office—I remember your going to Mr. Stourbar in Sunderland to get money, you brought some back, and gave all the clerks 5l. each, and you gave me 5l. 1s.—I found out your address about a fortnight before your arrest, Duriment informed me of it—he said nothing about taking proceedings against you—I called on you at your house—Mr. Heriott was a clerk in the office, and he was very offensive because I would not join in the prosecution, I preferred holding back—the clerks in the City office were very unwilling to work, because they could not get their wages—I remember a bill transaction of 1,000l., bat through the affairs of Spain no one would look at it, although it was a very good bill, for in the state of Spain it might be good to-day and bad to-morrow—I believe that had things gone on in the proper way and had the prosecutors behaved to you with a little more leniency you would have been able to meet all your engagements.

Cross-examined by MR. LEWIS. I have not got back any portion of my 100l.—Sackville Street was not mentioned to me—I made inquiries through Messrs. Stubbs, and heard that the prisoner was highly respectable and strict in bis engagements—I saw no money pass through the City office—the prisoner told me when he engaged me that a large amount of money would pass through my hands and that he required the 100l. as security for my honesty—I do not want to go into how much he owes me—I have had bill transactions with him and another party and lent him money besides—if I knock off the advances I have made him I get nothing for wages—I first began to lend him money in 1873, 10l. at a time—the only bill transaction was one of 25l. which I discounted for him for a friend of his, but he drew a bill which included my salary; that was accepted by a Mr. Porter, and it includes 15l. salary and 10l. loan; it became due in February, 1874—I have

not got it paid; Mr. Porter has not paid me—I do not wish to draw his name into it or to compromise his credit—it is very likely that persons employ more than one land agent—it is one or two persons business to cut out advertisements and solict for estates to be put on. the books—I certainly never knew anybody who came to the ity Office without being communicated with, but several parties called—I never saw the book before which has been produced.

CHARLES CRAVEN DURIMENT (re-examined by the Court.) I know this book; it is entirely in the prisoner's writing—I know all the transactions there mentioned, and I know of several things being put down in the ledger as being due which are not due, because the business was never carried through, and they ought not to have been debited—this very ledger was shown to me to inspire me with confidence—here is an instance where he has marked in pencil "No good;" it is a bad debt—it passed through the office, and he tried to do it, but he could not—he sent to several solicitors, and offered them half commission if they would do It with their "clients, and he has put down the commission—he has done that in several instances, and I know that the money was not obtained—this, "Obtaining a loan on a club," debited at 600l., was never carried through—the prisoner told' me that Mr. Green owed him some money—this premium, 500l.; is a-life insurance—Mr. Thornhill is a friend of Mr. Green's—this-commission agreed, 500l., has not been paid—there is no cashbook' of sums received; there were none to put down—this "Laurence Gill, Esq., deposit;" was never done, and this "Wilding, Esq.," was not carried through—I know nothing about this profit of thirty guineas a month under the account of W.B. Laurance.

The Prisoner. It is two years since I saw that book, but there was a cash-book in the safe.

GEORGE DAT (re-examined). There was no cash-book in the safe except a petty cash-book.

CHARLES CRAVEN DURIMENT . A pile of these cards (produced), "Honourable F. H. E. Ganier," always laid on the mantelpiece—this letter is in the prisoner's writing. (In this the prisoner described himself as The Hon. Mr. Ganier, and a letter addressed to the Hon. Mr. Gamier was also put in.)' The Prisoner, in his defence, denied passing as the Hon. Mr. Gdrnier, or as Mr. Webster, but admitted that he was acting for Mr. Webster. Her stated that his partner, Mr. Laurance, was absent in America surveying some mines in Chicago, which they had entered into an agreement to purchase and bring out as a company. He complained that his business had, been ruined by summonses being taken out against him by the prosecutors and others before their money was due, whereas if they had waited till it was due ke should have been prepared to pay it; and argued that the fact of the money being placed with him at interest, proved that he had a right to make what use of it he liked; but that even if he had rendered himself liable to a prosecution for misappropriating the money, that would not make him guilty of unlawfully obtaining it; that he had borrowed money to keep the business going, which he would not have done if he had been acting fraudulently; that with the exception of Somers, who was dismissed for neglecting his work, lie had continued-to pay the clerks' salaries for twelvemonths, when he could easily have found excuses for dismissing them if so inclined; that having dismissed Finch for opening his private letters and insulting him, he set the other clerks on to prosecute him. He stated that being disappointed in the sale of a farm for 21,000l. had prevented his

realising 3,000l. or 4,000l. commission, and that, if he had only realised 1,000l., that would have paid the prosecutors three times over; and, lastly, he stated that if his request for the postponement of his trial until the next Session had been acceded to, he should have been able to produce Mr. Laurance as a witness; and he denied mentioning Sackville Street, Dublin, as their place of business.

GUILTY Twelve Months' Imprisonment .

NEW COURT.—Friday, May 5th, 1876.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-346a
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

346. JOHN HORSNAIL (41) and HARRIETT HORSNAIL (33) , Robbery with violence on Charles Dean and stealing his watch.

MR. WOODGATE conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES DEAN . I live at 99, Manor Street, Bromley—I am a labourer—on the 18th April about 12 o'clock at night I was in the Whitechapel Road—it was near the East London Railway Station—somebody there knocked me down and took my watch away—I believe there were three or four people there, I cannot say whether men or women, I believe one woman—it was in the gaslight—they dragged me along the pavement—I was not drunk—I know the prisoners—this is my watch (produced), it is worth 4l.—I saw the prisoners in the evening at a public-house—I stood two pots of 6d. ale with them—I stayed there after that and had a glass of stout and mild; the prisoners left first—the blow that I received stunned me and my eye was swollen as big as half an egg.

Cross-examined by John Horsnail. I do not believe I saw you after 9 o'clock that night—you did not knock me down.

Cross-examined by Harriett Morsnail. I remember you leaving the public-house—I do not remember parting—I believe I did not say "Come on, old girl, let us go across the road and have a quartern of gin"—I did not ask you to pawn my watch for me—I did not find your pocket handkerchief in my pocket the next morning.

ROBERT CHILVERS . I am a pawnbroker at 4, High Street, Stepney—I produce the watch—it was pledged by the male prisoner on the 19th April—he gave his right name and address, and I know him as a customer—it was pledged for 1l.

WILLIAM WALLER (Detective Officer K). On the 21st April I went to 68, North Street, where the prisoners reside—I saw the male prisoner and asked him if his name was Horsnail and he said it was—I said "You pledged a watch at Mr. Childers, at High Street, Stepney," He said "Yes, it is my watch, I have had it some time"—I told him to be careful, and the female prisoner then said "An old man gave me the watch last night to go home with me, I gave it to my husband and he pledged it"—I took the male prisoner into custody and told the female to come to the station—she followed behind—they were charged and the male prisoner said "All I know about it is I pawned the watch"—the female prisoner said to the prosecutor "Let it stop until to-morrow and I will get it out then."

The female Prisoner's Statement was read as follows: "The prosecutor gave it to me to pledge, and I said it was too late, and we went from Commercial Road to Whitechapel Road and could not pledge it; he said we could pledge it in the morning. The prosecutor got so drunk be fell against the wall and hurt his face and I gave him my pocket handkerchief; if I have any guilt let it stand feasible and I will stand by it."


1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-347a
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment

Related Material

347. JOHN ATKINS (23) and CHARLES NORRIS (18) , Burglary in in the dwelling-house of Thomas Roper.

MR. WOODGATE conducted the Prosecution.

RICHARD COX . I live a 1, Nichol Square—I am a missionary—on the 17th April at about 4.45 in the morning I looked out of my window and saw the two prisoners run from the house to the back of the warehouse of Mr. Roper's premises and proceed to take down the shutters—the ware-house is a building projecting from the house—Atkins was the principal actor—I saw him strike the window sash with a, piece of wood—felt, it my duty to see for the police and I went out and mot Constable 238 and another followed immediately afterwards—I took them into my room where they watched the progress of things and afterwards took the prisoners into custody.

Cross-examined by Atkins. I saw you take down the shutters—my wifewas also watching you.

VICTORIA COX . I am wife of the last witness—on the morning in question my husband awoke me, and I saw the prisoners at Mr. Roper's ware-house window—they succeeded in. opening the shutters—the window appeared to be stopped up with pieces of wood, which they took away and got the window down—the prisoner Atkins got his leg inside but could not succeed with his body—he then came back and shook his head at the younger one—they were ultimately given into custody.

WILLIAM THOMAS ROPER . I am a hosier residing at 171,' Hackney Road—on the morning of the 17th of April, at about 5 o'clock, I was awoke—I found my warehouse shutter was taken down, some woodwork broken, and part of the window also broken—I did not miss any-property—there is a communication internally between this warehouse and—my house.

Cross-examined by Atkins. The shutters were fastened with a nut and screw—there was no glass broken—the woodwork was nailed across where the glass originally was—the shutters were not broken—the, sash was broken.

GEORGE HENRY GOWER (Policeman H 238). I was called by the witness Mr. Cox on the 17th and went up to his room at. 1, Nichol Square, where I watched the prisoners breaking the window of the prosecutor—mother constable came afterwards, No. 344, and I took the prisoners into oustody.

Cross-examined by Atkins. It was not glass you were breaking, it was rood—the windows were wood—there was glass there.

WILLIAM CUFFLEY (Policeman N 344). On the morning in question I went to Mr. Cox's room and looked out of the window—I saw the two prisoners at he back of Mr. Roper's house—Norris was trying to cut the sash of the window with this knife (produced)—I went down, and after chasing the risoners over several garden walls we captured them—I examined the prelises afterwards and found these two portions of board (produced inside, he window had been broken away.


Atkins PLEADED GUILTY to having been before convicted, and numerous other onvictions were proved against him.

ATKINS**— Seven Years'Penal Servitude .

NORRIS*— Twelve Months'Imprisonment .


Before, Mr. Common Serjeant.

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-348a
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

348. WILLIAM HALL (20) , Burglariously entering the dwelling-house of Messrs. Welsh, and stealing a cash-box and money. Second Count— Receiving.

MR. FOSTER REED conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE MELLUISH (Policeman K 459). On the morning of the 1st April' I was in the East India Dock Road, about 1.15—the prisoner and another man passed me, and I saw something sticking out of his coat—I followed him and asked what he had underneath his coat—he said "Nothing," and at the same time put his leg between mine, and we both fell, and as we did so this cash-box (produced) dropped out—as we were on the ground I made a grasp at the bos, and the prisoner's companion made a rush for it too—I rolled over on to the box and kept it—his companion knocked my hat off, and my lantern was knocked away too—at the station I opened the box in the presence of the inspector—in it was 16l. 14s. ll 1/4d., and some of the silver was wrapped up in tea paper; on the tea paper was the name Welsh & Co.—I was at once sent to their premises, and called out the manager—I found an entry had been effected by thieves through the upstairs window at the back—I examined the shop, and found that the till had been got out by the woodwork being cut away—the look was still "shot"—a large bacon knife, which was found in another place, had evidently been used to cut away the woodwork—I found the barred door at the back unlocked, and the back door unbolted—the manager and I then returned to the police-station—he identified the stolen property—the prisoner was charged at the station with the burglary.

MATTHEW JOSEPH HAYES (Police Inspector K). I was at the station when the constable Melluish brought in the prisoner—he handed me this cashbox—I asked the prisoner to account for it, and he said a man had been to his sister's house and taken tea with him, and he had gone down Canning Town and waited an hour and a half, I think, and brought this cash-box to him—I forced open the cash-box, and found a tea paper inside stating the name of Welsh & Co., 89, North Woolwich Road, Canning Town—I sent the officer to this place, and he discovered what has been related to you.

GEORGE ALFRED STEPNEY . I am manager of this business, 89, North Woolwich Road, and reside there—on 31st March I locked up the house—I identify this cash-box (produced)—at 11.30 all was safe; the cash-box was in the till drawer close to the counter, and it was locked; I took the keys with me—before I went to bed I saw that the bolts were fastened and the windows—near the window where the entrance was effected there was a lot of egg boxes, which could easily be placed up against the window—I was aroused by constable Melluish, and I then examined the premises, and I corroborate the evidence already given—I swear to the contents of the box.

The Prisoner, in his defence, stated that he waited for his companion an hour and a half at Victoria Dock Road, and received from him the cash-box to carry, but he knew nothing of the premises.

GUILTY Nine Months' Imprisonment.

The Court ordered a reward of 31. to the officer Melluish.


Before Mr. Baron Amphlett.

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-349a
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

Related Material

349. JAMES WEBSTER (25) , Unlawfully and maliciously breaking and damaging two machines, the property of Frederick Braby & Co., Limited.

MR. BESLEY conducted the Prosecution; and Mr. Straight the Defence.

EMANUEL HARVIE . I live at 32, Searles Terrace, Deptford, and am a timekeeper to Frederick Braby & Co., Limited—this is a certificate of the incorporation of the company—on Saturday, 8th April, I had a communition from Brown, a fitter in the employ, after which I went in company with Steele, the foreman of carpenters, to the prisoner; I found him by the side of the trying up machine, at the company's works, at Deptford, about 11.20 a.m.—he was in the machine room—there are three machines there, a general joiner machine, a moulding machine, and a trying up machine—they are worked by steam, the prisoner was employed as a general machinist, to do any kind of work that might be turned out by those three machines, a piece of board was produced and Steele-asked him to pass it through the trying up machine—he said there was not time to do it—I said "What do you mean by not having time to do it, it is now only 11.20, there is plenty of time to do it"—he said "I will see you b——first or any other man, is it likely when my head is off at 12 o'clock, that I should leave the machines so that any other man could work them after me"—I said "Webster, consider your character, unfortunately you are one out of eleven that are off to-day through slackness of work; if you have done anything to the machines, put them to rights for the sake of your own character"—he said there was not time to do it—I said time should be no obstacle in his way as I would have steam run till 1 o'clock, or later if it was required for him to do it—I remained with him about ten minutes, trying to persuade him to put the machines to rights—he replied that he would not do so, he would leave the machines so that no person could work them after him—I said if that was his determination I should have to go to the office and acquaint Mr. Hart, the manager of it—I went and informed Mr. Hart and returned with him to the prisoner, that was about 11.40 or 11.35—he was still in the same place.

Cross-examined. I was not examined before the Magistrate, I was at the Court, I heard the prisoner make a statement there—he had been in the company's employ two years and three weeks—the general joiner machine was on the works when he came, the others were added afterwards, about two years ago, but they had only been at work about sis months—I believe I wheel of the general joiner was broken once—if the machinery got slightly out of order he would do it himself, but if it required repairs, it would go to the fitters'; it did sometimes require a little repair, and that would be he prisoner's duty—part of the trying up machine is wire roping,; I never heard complaints of their slipping—I am always through the shop; I have. general superintendence all through the works—I have seen the prisoner til the machines and shift our piece of work out and put in another, the utters can be taken out, ground and sharpened, they are in the moulding machine—the prisoner would be told of the notice to leave by the manager then he came to the pay table on the Saturday—they are all paid at 12 'clock on Saturday, then they would knock off—he would come at 9 o'clock on Saturday morning—we had about thirty men then employed on the works; there is no set quantity of men, it all depends upon the class of work there is—on this morning eight or ten were at work at the machines, of in the workshop—others would be passing and could see the machines—was about 11.30 when Brown came to me.

CHARLES HART . I am manager of the Victoria Works of the company at Deptford—on Friday, 17th April, at miday, I gave directions to Harvie that then should be discharged—one of the carpenters came into the office while was giving those instructions—on the Saturday morning Harvie came and

made a communication to me and I went to where the prisoner was, about 11.45 or 11.40—I said to him "Before I pay you your money I shall require to see your three machines in motion"—he said "I will sec you b——first, it is nearly 12 o'clock, and there is no time to do it"—I told him that I would have the steam kept going for him till 12.30 to enable him to work the machines, and I added that I would pay him for his over time—he then said "I will put this machine in motion," and he got his sharpening stone to sharpen the cutters in the trying up machine—I said "That won't do, it will take you too long to sharpen the knives and it is not necessary, I want to see the machines in motion"—he refused, saying "Iam not going to leave these machines for any other man to come in and work them, I will put them in working order if you will all go out of the place"—I then told him that he should have nothing more to do with the machines and that he must go out of the works, and refused to pay him his wages—in the yard he took off his coat and made some remark to the effect that he would make mo pay, but he thought better of it, and at last we got him out of the yard and he went away—before he went he put the moulding machine in gear for about ten seconds and then took it off again—after he left I instructed Brown to examine the machines; they were examined in my presence—on the Monday morning, about 10 o'clock, the prisoner came into my office, I had sent for a policeman and I gave him in custody on this charge—I saw him turn out his pockets at the police-station, and there were fifteen pieces belonging to the machines—after he was sent for trial a piece of wire rope was brought to me by Samplin—I have compared that with the remainder of the rope belonging to the trying-up machine and it corresponds, it was cut from it—if repairs were required for the machines it was the prisoner's duty to report them for repair, and Brown, the fitter would do it.

Cross-examined. I cannot tell in how many months last year he was engaged in repairing the machinery—I am there every day from 10 till 5 o'clock about the works, superintending—I may have had instructions to shorten hands for some months, as soon as the work in hand would enable us to do it—the prisoner worked by the hour—there was no arrangement as to notice, and I should not give him any until he came to the table to be paid—I could not say whether the moulding machine worked properly it was in motion such a short time—he was very abusive, he was the worse for liquor—he sent on Sunday to say that he wanted to come and put the machinery right; I was not there.

DANIEL BROWN . I am a fitter in the company's service—I am thoroughly acquainted with these machines; if repairs are required it is my place to do them and no one else—I was on duty at the works from day to day in the week preceding 8th April—the machines ran all right and were at work, and the prisoner was working them; he made no complaint of their being out of order—on Saturday, 8th, I had occasion to go into the place where the machines were, about 11 o'clock in the morning—I observed the prisoner drinking some liquor out of a bottle; he was in drink—I said to him "Jem, lend me a shilling"—he said "Yes, mate, I will," and in pulling his hand out of his pocket I observed a marking stud like one of these (produced;—I said "Let me look at that"—he closed his hand—I said again "Let me look at it, Jem"—he said "No, I will not let you see it, or any other man"—I asked what it was for—he said "A moulding machine"—I went and acquainted Mr. Harvie of it; I knew it belonged to machinery, but I did

not know that it belonged to ours, as I had not examined it, he had no right to have it in his pocket—I have since ascertained that they belong to the machinery—I found the place for them, two in the moulding machine, and one in the trying-up machine, I am positive of it—I was afterwards present when Mr. Hart and Mr. Steele were there—Mr. Hart asked the prisoner to put the machines in motion and plane a piece of wood—he said at first ha would if we all went out—he afterwards said "I will see you b——first"—Mr. Hart asked him again—he said "No, I will not, I have had to get the machines right and I will not leave them right for anyone else"—after he was got away I made an examination of the machinery—as to the trying up machine, I found a half-inch stud missing at the foot of the block spindle and the cutter block spindle—the machine could not be worked for any time without these—I found two keys missing belonging to the feed motion—the effect of their absence would be that the machine would be entirely useless—the drum spindle was displaced altogether, and I found two collars moved and one five-eighths set screw slackened and another taken out, the one found in his pocket—the wire rope was cut, the end nearest the drum, apparently by a hammer and chisel, there was a part of it missing—it is attached to each end of the table to draw backwards and forwards—there was about 18 inches of the rope missing—the piece that has been shewn to me very much corresponds with the end that is cut, as near as I can say—there was one more screw taken away from the drum that fastened the rope to the drum—I have given you now the result of my investigation of the trying up machine on Saturday, and in the state I found it; it was entirely useless—on the Monday I examined the mould machine—as to the cutter block spindle I found this block nut (produced)taken away—this is one of the fifteen pieces—the effect of it—would be dangerous, because it would allow the spindle to work sideways and with a cutter being on the block (they run so often) that if it had got any side play it would cut on the sides as it came round, and of course the least thing would break them—if one was standing there it is quite likely one would go into them—I found two screws missing from the cutter block slide; they are here—the effect of heir removal would render that part entirely useless—these screws (two produced)belong to some spindles for steadying them; they are called set crews—I found two three-eighths screws likewise missing, they are here—here is scarcely a bolt of any kind or a nut that was not slackened—the effect would be, on the cutters, as soon as ever they touch the wood it would cause them to fly off the cutter knives, that would be dangerous, quite likely) stick into anyone—the revolution of the moulding machine, the speed, would be about 3,000; the machine in the condition in which I found it would be of no use for the purpose of manufacture—the joiners' machine I examined and found it quite right; it has been worked since—there is no ate of circumstances to render necessary such tampering with the moulding machine—it will take a person about three days and a half to put these machines in working order—apart from the defendant tightening a screw which might slacken with work, he had nothing whatever to do with arranging or repairing the machinery.

Cross-examined. I swear that—he has not, to my knowledge, during the 1st year he was there continually charged his employers for work he us done to the machine in repairing—I will not swear he has not—I was work when he came on this Saturday—he came about 7 o'clock, that was is time—I do not know whether he went to the machine at once—the

carpenters are working in the neighbourhood of the machine, they would not see whether he went there; there is a partition, he was downstairs and they were up—persons are passing in continually where the machinery is—there was nothing the matter with the joining machine—the trying up machine prepares the wood for the builders instead of the joiners having to plane by hand—when he was pulling out the 1s. he said "Yes, mate, I lost it, "He pulled out this stud with it.

Re-examined. Ho was a little the worse for liquor at that time.

WALTER FEATHERSTONE . I am employed as a mechanical engineer by Ransom & Co., Chelsea—this firm made the three machines—on the 10th April 1 inspected them—as far as I could see, the general joining machine was in working order—from the moulding machine and trying up machine screws and fittings had been removed and slackened—there was a piece of rope missing—it was cut—they could not be worked.

JOHN SAMPLIN . I am a storekeeper employed by the company—on Thursday, the 13th April, I was directed to search for a piece of rope—I looked in a tank of water standing about 20 feet from the machine and found it (produced).

ALFRED ATTRAY (Policeman R 318). About 11.45 on the 12th April I was called to Brady & Co.'s works—the prisoner was there and pointed out to me—he was given in custody by Mr. Hart, and charged with wilful damage to certain parts of machinery and causing danger to life—I told the prisoner he would have to go to the station upon the charge—he said be wished to make an apology for what he had done on Saturday for he was drunk at the time, but Mr. Hart said it was too late—I took him to the station, and after he was charged he took these nuts and screws (produced) from his pockets, and said they all belonged to the machine that he was working.

GUILTYRecommended to mercy by the Jury Nine Months' Imprisonment.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-350a
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > unknown

Related Material

350. JOSEPH MONTAGUE (59) and MARTHA MONTAGU (35) , Feloniously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Philip Emmett, and stealing therein one pair of boots and other articles.


MR. SOMERVILLE conducted the Prosecution.

HENRIETTA ANN EMMETT . I am the wife of Philip Emmett, of 28, Seymour Street, Deptford—on the morning of the 19th April I came down at G.45, and missed a coat—I had closed the shutter the night before; the window was left unbolted—the articles I missed have been shown to me at the police-station (produced)—these are them, boots, a coat, and a tumbler—they were safe the night before.

JOSEPH BELCHER (Policeman R 85). About 4.45 on the 19th April I was on duty in the Deptford Broadway—I stopped the female prisoner with a pair of boots and a basket—I afterwards proceeded to the house where Montague lives, 2, Mill Lane, Deptford, in company with Sergeant Mongen—I saw the male prisoner in bed—we searched the house and found a piece of calico and fur coat concealed between the bed and bed ticking, a piece of cheese and tea and a piece of cake on the table in front of the window, and some eggs, which are not produced now—he said he knew nothing about them.

THOMAS MONGEN (Police Sergeant R 3). I went with Belcher to the prisoner's house about 9.45—Montague was in bed; he got up and opened the door to me—I said "Do you know where your wife is?"—he said "I have heard she is in custody and locked up"—I said "You know what she is charged with, having a pair of boots in her possession and not satisfactorily accounting for them"—he said "Iknow nothing about them," and I said "I shall search your house," and we did so, and found the articles produced—I was in company with the constable when we found the coat and calico between the bed and the sacking.


1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-351a
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

351. JOSEPH MONTAGUE and MARTHA MONTAGU were again indicted for stealing, on the 8th October, four pair of boots and other articles of Thomas Jeffery Williams. MARTHA MONTAGUE PLEADED GUILTY .

THOMAS MONGEN (Police Sergeant R 3). On the 19th April I went to the prisoner's house and searched it, when I found these articles (produced) and two pipes on the sideboard exposed to view—I took him in charge and searched him at the station, when I found this pipe (produced).

Prisoner. I picked the pipe off the sideboard, and don't know how it came there, I am sure.

THOMAS JEFFERY WILLIAMS (Police Inspector P). Last October I lived at 19, Clandon Street, Deptford—on 8th October I went to bed about 11.30—this pipe I had been using, and the scarf produced I had round my neck—they were safe in my possession on the evening of the 8th—I heard a noise and looked at my watch to see the time, and saw it was about 1.45—I looked out of window, did not see anybody about, and I got into bed—in the morning I found the parlour window had been opened and the shutter run down; the blind was drawn half way down; the lower part of the shutter was run up—those boots (produced) are a pair worn by my eldest daughter; those others are a pair worn by my wife—those things were shown to me at the pawnbroker's, and the pipes at the station a fortnight ago—I produce two pawn tickets; they were found in a small jar in the prisoner's room.

HENRY PHILLIPS . I am in the service of my father, a pawnbroker, in High Street, Deptford—I produce a pair of women's boots, which were pawned on the 31st October, 1875—this ticket is the one I gave to the person who pledged them—I do not know who the woman was—it is the name of a female "Ann Smith."

THOMAS PARKHURST . I am in the service of Henry Sharp, jun., of Broadway, Deptford—I produce a pair of boots pawned on the 18th October—this is the ticket I gave for them—I do not know who they were pawned by; a female.


MARTHA MONTAGUE— Seven Years' Penal Servitude .

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-352a
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

352. JOHN HARRIS (46) and SUSAN HARRIS (37) , Stealing a purse and 1l. 8s. of Ada Theresa Salmon. Second Count—receiving.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution; MR. RIBTON the Defence.

ADA THERESA SALMON . I am single, residing at 4, Mornington Road, Regent's Park—on the 20th April about 1.45 in the afternoon I was with come children on Blackheath—they had a donkey ride—the prisoners had

donkeys near the park gate—I took a ride myself—I took a purse from my pocket to lend a youth of my party 2s., and put it back again—it then contained a sovereign and some shillings—the female prisoner helped me on the donkey, the male prisoner was standing opposite—about three or four minutes afterwards I missed my purse from my pocket which was outside my dress—I thought I might have dropped it, and got off the donkey to look for it, but I did not find it—I then told my loss to a policeman and he called me to a man and woman whom he asked if they had seen the purse, and they said "No"—soon after the policeman produced the purse but it was empty—this is it (produced)—the female prisoner could have seen the purse when I took it out.

Cross-examined. There was another party besides us there—a great many donkeys and donkey drivers—I selected the donkey belonging to this woman—it was before I got on the donkey I lent the boy 2s. and put my purse in my pocket—it was while riding that I missed it—there were other persons riding on donkeys at the same time and a great many donkey drivers close by.

WILLIAM BARNES (Policeman RR 22). I was on duty at Blackheath near a donkey stand—I saw the prosecutrix and her friend—I saw the female prisoner help her upon a donkey, at this time the male prisoner was putting a saddle on a pony—as soon as he had done so he came across and spoke to his wife—I was standing against the park gates—I saw the male prisoner come across the road into the park, round to the urinal at the back of the lodge—in the meantime the prosecu-trix came up to me and said she had lost her purse—whilst she was speaking to me the male prisoner came out of the park—I asked the prosecutrix to wait a quarter of an hour as my suspicion was aroused—I went round, in company with the park keeper, made a search and found the urinal perfectly dry—just outside there was some earth which had been raised, and on removing this I found the purse—I spoke to the prisoners but they denied having seen the purse—the prosecutrix at once identified it by a letter—at the station I found 8s. 9d. in silver and 2d. in bronze upon the male prisoner, and a half-crown and a 1d. was found upon the female prisoner.

Cross-examined. There are three entrances to the urinal, but only one was open on this day, the one that you enter from the park—I saw people constantly going in—the urinal is a double one with four compartments, I think, each side—it will admit eight people at once.

MARK PERKINS . I am park-keeper at Blackheath—I saw the female prisoner start the 'prosecutrix off on a donkey in the afternoon of the 30th April—the male prisoner was putting a saddle on a horse, and afterwards spoke to his wife for about a minute—he then crossed over the road and came through the park gate and said he was going into the urinal—I had not seen anyone go in before that—I had been standing there about a half an hour—he was gone about five minutes; when he came back he crossed over the road towards the donkey stand—I then went with the policeman to the urinal, and it was quite dry—it had not been used—when we came out I saw the earth, which we removed and the purse was produced.

Cross-examined. The policeman is right in saying one entrance only was open—I was on duty; these donkey drivers do not give a great deal of trouble to the police.


1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-353a
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

353. SARAH ROLFE (20) , Stealing 2s. of Thomas Whiffen, her master.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS WHIFFEN . I am a greengrocer, living at Lcwisham Road—the prisoner has been in my employ as shopwoman—on 13th April, I marked 22s. 6d. all silver, and put it into the till, between 4 and 5 o'clock, the prisoner was serving in the shop—she had access to the till—when I came home at night I examined the till, at about 11 o'clock, all the marked money was gone—next morning, Friday, I spoke to her in the presence of the policeman—I said I had suspected she had been robbing me and before she left my house we would have to see what she had in her purse—she first refused, and then the constable spoke to her and she threw a purse on the table, it opened at the same time, and the constable examined the money and found one marked shilling in it—there was about 85. in silver in it—we examined her box upstairs, and found in it some coppers and loose silver, and one marked shilling and some silver in a cigar box—only two marked shillings were found—the constable asked her if she had got any more, and she said "No"—she said "If there was a mark on the money, there was a mark before she came to me"—at the police-station she said to the inspector that on the previous day she was short of change, a lady came in with a half-sovereign, and she took half-crown from her pocket, and in the evening she repaid herself—my wife was serving in the shop with her, from the time I marked the money until I came back.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. There was a half-sovereign on the mantelpiece, in the next room—several sovereigns and half-sovereigns—they had been taken that day.

THOMAS FRANCIS . I saw the money marked before it was put into the till—I was present when Mr. Whiffen charged the prisoner—I went upstairs after she produced the purse and found one marked shilling amongst 13s. 6d. in silver, in a cigar-box, in her large box—before shegot to the station she said "Igave some change to a young woman, who came to buy some things—two two-shilling pieces, half-crown and 4d.;" when she was charged at the station she said the young woman was a customer and came in with a half-sovereign; she sent a boy out to get change, and as he could not get change she took half-crown out of her own pocket, and in the evening she took the money out to pay herself.

ELIZA WHIFFEN . On the 13th April, I was attending to my husband's business, I was in the shop the whole of the evening, and nearly the whole of the day, from 6 till 11 o'clock—he left me change in silver and gold—I had given change in the evening, but not in the morning for gold—I cannot cell how much—I do not know whether the-prisoner knew that my husband had left me some silver in the room—she did not apply to me for change—I myself gave change for a half-sovereign—I left the shop at short intervals while my husband was away.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "Igave change for a half-ovcreign on the Thursday morning. I took a half-crown from my own course and in the evening I took 2s. and 6d. from the till to make it up."


Before Mr. Recorder.

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-354a
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

354. JAMES TULLETT (21) , Stealing 112 lbs. of lead of William Oliver and another, from a certain barge upon the navigable river Thames. Second Court—receiving the same.

MR. GRIFFITHS conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM OLIVER . I am a master lighterman in partnership with Mr. Baker—two of our barges were loaded with pigs of lead at Wapping on the 24th March last—ultimately they were removed to Mill wall to be delivered to Messrs. Pontifex & Son—this (produced) I have not the least doubt is one of them—it bears the same brand—it value is about 23s.

ALBANY PHONE . I am foreman to Messrs. Pontifex—on the morning of the 25th March I was unloading some pigs of lead that came from the last witness—there ought to have been two more than were received—this (produced)bears the same mark as the lead that was unloaded.

JOHN KING (Police man R 206). On the morning of the 25th March about 0.30 I was on duty near St. Nichols, Deptford—I saw the prisoner with another man carrying an empty bag towards the river; that is towards Mill wall, Messrs. Pontifex's—about ten minutes afterwards I saw the two men come back again; the prisoner was carrying a bag on his shoulder with something very heavy in it—when they saw me the other man ran away and the prisoner placed the bag in a doorway and also ran away—I went to the doorway and in the bag I found the pig of lead.

CHARLES ASHBY (Policeman R 186). In consequence of information I received I went into Butcher Row—I saw the last—witness at the bottom of Hughes' Fields and the prisoner and Wynch—I went round Deptford Green so as to meet him—I arrested him, he said "Leave go," and tried to get away—I stated the charge to him of stealing the lead, he said he knew nothing about it and was taken to the station.

The Prisoners Statement before the Magistrate, "They cannot swear I stole it, no one saw me steal it, and no one saw it in my possession."

GUILTY . He also

PLEADED GUILTY to a 'previous conviction, and several others were proved against him— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment .

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-355a
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

Related Material

355. THOMAS PURNELL (44) , Embezzling 2l. 16s., 1l., and 1l., received on account of John Andrew Cobley Hosegood, his master.

MR. MONTAGU WILLIAMS conducted the Prosecution; MR. STRAIGHT the Defence.

EDMUND HILLS . I am a pork butcher of Bexley Heath—I had a suit of clothes from Mr. Hosegood through the prisoner, for which I paid him 2l. 16s., and he gave me this receipt.

JAMES SUCH . I am a grocer of Plumstead—I ordered a suit of clothes of the prisoner at Mr. Hosegood's for which I paid, by two instalments, 2l. on 29th December, and 1l. 5s. on loth January—these are the receipts (produced).

EDWARD PLUMMER . I am a baker at Plumstead—I know the prisoner as Mr. Hosegood's traveller—I owed him 4l. 16s. for goods supplied in July last—I paid that to the prisoner by instalments—this is his receipt.

JOHN ANDREW COBLEY HOSEGOOD . I am a clothier at 98, Powis Street, Woolwich—the prisoner was a salesman and-traveller in my service—his duty was three days a week to solicit orders, to deliver the goods, and receive the money—the goods would be entered by myself in my daybook, and if not paid for at the time, they would be entered to the customer in the ledger—his duty was to account to me for the money he received the next morning—he has never accounted to me for 2l. 16s. received from Mr. Hills on 8th July; he accounted for 1l. from Mr. Such on 30th December, and 1l. on 10th February, but not for the 1l. 5s.—he has not accounted to me for 1l. from Mr. Plummer on 5th January—I received 2l. altogether on Plummer's

account of 4l. 16s.—I had a traveller named Austin, in consequence of something that occurred I gave Austin into custody—I then called the prisoner into my room and asked him if he had heard of Austin's affair, he said he had—I said "Well, I should like to know if your customers' acconnts are in any better state?"—he said "No, they are not"—I said "It will save me a great deal of trouble if you will make out a list of the amount of your defalcation," and I sat down and went through the ledger name by name, and wrote this list at his dictation—it contains the names of Hills, Such, and Plummer—he said the money should be paid in the course of the day—I said "It is too late now"—after that I asked him if he would like to see his wife; he said yes and I sent for her and she came—I said nothing to him about 100l.—I made subsequent inquiries that same day and gave him into custody.

Cross-examined. It was about 9 o'clock on Wednesday morning, 23rd of February, that I spoke to him—I gave him into custody about 9.30 the same evening—he was not under notice to leave—he was not locked up in my sitting-room till 8.30; he was there—I saw his wife about 10 o'clock or 10.30 in the morning; she went away, and returned about 10 o'clock—I did not say to the prisoner that I would take 100l. to cover everything—my conversation was with the wife—he has been in my employ about six years; he came first as salesman—I don't think his salary was as much as two guineas a week; he had no commission—he commenced travelling about three years ago for three days a week, and the other three days he acted as salesman in the shop—he had 45s. a week as traveller and 3s. a day for expenses—I keep my own books; these three accounts are entered in the daybook and ledger—I told his wife that he had received these amounts and not paid them over; she begged me not to prosecute him on account of herself, her family, and friends, and asked me what I thought the amount was—I said I should fancy somewhere about 100l.—she then went away, saying she was going to see her brother-in-law, and asked me not to lock the prisoner up till she had seen her brother-in-law—I told her I would wait; I did not wait—the prisoner did not tell me that he bad used the' money in the course of the business.

Re-examined. I altered my mind about giving him into custody because I went out and discovered other matters not contained in this list, and I also found that goods had been stolen as well.

WILLIAM MORGAN (Policeman). I took the prisoner—I told him the charge; he made no answer to it.

The Prisoner received a good character.


Recommended to mercy by the Jury— Nine, Months' Imprisonment .

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-356a
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

356. HENRY SMITH (31) , Breaking and entering the shop of John shepherd Arnold and stealing one chain, his goods.

MR. FOSTER REED conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM JAMES WILSON . I am assistant to Mr. Arnold, a pawnbroker, of Broadway, Deptford—on 30th March I was in the shop, heard a breaking of lass, and immediately went out and found a large hole in the window he jewellery was in great confusion—I then closed the shop and proceeded to police-station, and there I saw the prisoner in custody, and I saw this gold bain there, which I identify; it was in the window, and is worth five guineas.

WILLIAM THOMAS WHITE . I am a cheesemonger's assistant, and live at 2, Wellington Street, Deptford, next door to the prosecutor's—on the evening of the 30th March, at 8.30, I was standing outside talking to a neighbour—I heard the breaking of glass, and on looking I saw the prisoner with his hand in the window—I saw him take out the chain—he ran away and I chased him; I caught him about 100 yards off; the chain was in his hand; he threw it behind him, and the other witness caught it.

ARTHUR ROBERT MAY . I live at 3, Gordon Row, Lewisham—I am an engineer's apprentice—I was passing in the Broadway on this evening, and saw the prisoner with the chain; he threw it away, and I caught it—I went with the other witness.

JAMES HICKS (Policeman R 327). The prisoner was given into my charge and the chain was given to me—the prisoner was sober.

The Prisoner, in his defence, stuted that he was in drink at the time, and unconscious of what lie did.

GUILTY . He also

PLEADED GUILTY to having been previously convicted in September, 1868— Fifteen Months' Imprisonment .


Before Mr. Baron Amphlett.

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-357a
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

357. MARY ANN DAVIDSON (19) , Feloniously killing and slaying Mary Davidson.

MR. M. WILLIAMS conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN GITTINGS . I am district medical officer to St. Olave's Union, Southwark—on 7th April I went to the house of Mary Davidson who was being nursed by Mrs. McCarthy—I found a small incised cut on her head about an inch long and a little behind and above her left ear—erysipelas in the face had set in, and I continued to attend her till the 16th when she died from erysipelas caused by the wound—this teapot would be a likely thing to cause the wound if a blow was struck with it—I did not see the prisoner till after the woman's death—I then said to her "How did you come to strike your mother?—she said "Ido not know that I did, we had a scuffle, we were all drinking together"—the deceased was a very unhealthy woman, I have known her seven or eight years, she was an habitual drunkard and a wound would be more likely to lapse into erysipelas in a person of those habits—I made a post-mortem examination, the liver and kidneys were very much diseased from drink—a similar cut would not have been dangerous on the head of an healthy person—it might have been produced by a fall on the floor, or against the sharp edge of a chair, a step, or anything short.

Prisoner. My mother and I had been drinking all day together; she asked me for money, and I could not give it to her; she called me bad names and I knew nothing more about it.

MARY SMITH . I live at 5s., Griffith's Rents—I 'knew the deceased; the prisoner is her daughter—they were in my room a month ago last Saturday night—they were all drunk—Mary Ann McCarthy was very drunk and so was the mother and the other lady—the deceased called the prisoner bad names because she could not give her some money—the daughter lived in the house—her mother pulled her by the head and laid her down—the mother was very tipsy and so was Mary Ann, who took the teapot and struck her mother on the head with it, I cannot say on what part—she did not not fall, but she had fallen an hour or two before that in coming indoors to

her own place—I saw her fall—there is a step to the door—she fell backwards.

MR. M. WILLIAMS here with drew from the Prosecution.


1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-358a
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

Related Material

358. WILLIAM RAVENHILL HORTON (28) , Feloniously wounding John Morgan with intent to do grievous bodily harm.

MR. GILL conducted the Prosecution; and MR. A. B. KELLY the


MARIA MORGAN . I am the wife of John Morgan, of 13, The Grove, Great Guildford Street, Southwark—on the night of Easter Sunday, about 12.30, I was waiting up for my husband—the prisoner knocked at the door and asked if my husband was in—I said "No"—he said he was, he heard him talking—I said "If you don't like to believe me, come in and see for yourself"—he came in, and my daughter held a candle for him to see that he was not in—he went back to the door and said "I will learn him to call my wife a prostitute"—I said "What grievance there is between you, you had better come when you are sober and at a reasonable hour"—he was drunk—he said that he would lay wait for him if it was 3 o'clock in the morning before he came in, I could go in and shut the door, he did not want me to stay there, and I "went in and shut the door—in about ten minutes I went out to see if I could see my husband coming, I went to the corner of the street, and I saw the prisoner and my husband standing—the prisoner said "A good job you have come out, or I would have killed him dead"—my husband had blood all over bis face and he could not see out of his eyes, his head seemed almost as big as two—I put my hands up to my face and began crying and ran across the road to fetch my mother and daughter out—when I came back the prisoner was gone—my husband came staggering across the road, we got him inside and laid him on the bed and he feinted away—my mother and daughter attended to him, and next day a doctor saw him—he had two cuts on his face, one on face eye and one on the cheek; he bad two or three little marks on his face and one right across the nose; the two cuts appeared to have been done with a knife or some very sharp instrument—he had one piece cut out of his little finger on the left hand and piece out of another finger on the same hand.

Cross-examined. I saw no knife.

JOHN MORGAN . On the Saturday night I had been on a visit to my sister at Broad wall; I left there between 12.15 and 12.30; it is about a quarter of an hour's walk from my house—as I was turning round the corner of Guildford Street near my own house I met the prisoner—he was standing there not more than 15 or 20 yards from my house—I have known him for years and we never had a wrong word before—I said, "Holloa, Bill, how are you?"—he said "I will learn you to call my wife a prostitute," and he gave me a terrific blow with his fist at the side of the temple which cnocked me down senseless—I fell in a sitting position on the doorstsp of a mblic-house at the corner—he struck me several times while I was down is hard as he could all over the head—I tried to get up and I got half way up when he knocked me down again with his fist and commenced kicking ne; he kicked me all over the body and in the privates—I tried to get up again and just as I was half way between sitting and standing he brought his instrument out, it appeared to me to be a knife, and it looked to me ike a double edged knife; he took it out of his left breast pocket; he struck no twice with it; I could not see it coming, and I put up my hand to present

it, and it cut a piece of flesh out of my finger—he then made a second strike and the knife slipped through my fingers, cutting this other finger, and cut me under the eye, and he struck me again in the cheek—he put the knife in his pocket, then took it out again and said "Look here, I have a great mind to bury this in you"—fortunately my wife ran across the road at that moment, and he returned the knife into his pocket as quick as possible—he said to my wife "It is a good job you have come, for I meant to have killed him dead, however, you can sec what I have done with him now"—my wife put up her hands to her eyes, burst out crying, and ran away—I was left by myself then and I was afraid he might put his threat in force, so I said "Bill, let us part good friends," for I was really afraid—he said "No, we are enemies for ever"—he then went away—I tottered across the road the best way I could, I just managed to get to the street door and I remember no more till I was in bed and my daughter bathing my face—I had not struck the prisoner or said anything to him, we had been the best of friends till that evening.

Cross-examined. I have known him between six and seven years—I have not seen his wife more than about six times—I paid her two visits when the prisoner was absent, one was when I wished to see him about some business and he was not at home; another time I asked her to lend me 2d. as I had a long way to go and it was raining very hard—she said she had no change but would get it; we went to a beershop next door but one, and she got change and lent me 3d. for the bus fare and paid for two pints of beer for me and herself; that was on the Monday before the Saturday when this happened—I never said that his wife was a prostitute or a wh—or anything of the sort—I am not a deserter; I never deserted from the Army-twelve years ago I left my wife with her consent and went on the tramp to get work; I was away three months—I was then charged with deserting her and sent to prison—I had been to dinner with the prisoner the Sunday before this.

THOMAS EVANS . I am the divisional surgeon of police—I saw the prosecutor at his house about 11 o'clock on Sunday morning, the 16th, he was in bed and seemed very ill, suffering from shock, both his eyes were blackened and he had several slight contusions on the face and nose, and two clean incised wounds under the right eye parallel to each other, about half or three-quarters of an inch long, not very deep; they were caused by some sharp instrument such as a knife—he also had two slight wounds on the fore and little finger of his left hand, and he complained of being bruised about the body—I saw a considerable quantity of blood on the pavement before the door of the public-house—I thought from the amount of blood that it had come from his nose, but he said not.

Cross-examined. I could not swear that the wounds had been caused by a knife; any sharp-edged instrument would cause such wounds; the iron tip of a boot might do it, but I think then there would have been more contusion; it is possible, but not probable—a knife would be the most likely instrument.

EMILY COOPER . I live at the Anchor public-house, at the corner of Guildford Street—on this night, between 12.30 and 1 o'clock, I was going to bed—I heard a noise, I looked out of window and saw two men, one on a door-step and the other standing up and kicking the other, five or six times; he then punched him—the one who was sitting down got up—a woman came across the road, she did not step a minute, she went back again

crying—the men stood there, and I heard one say "Now we part enemies forever"—the other said "No, Bill; let us part friends"—then one left and the other crossed the road, and the woman came and took hold of his arm, and they went in the direction of Morgan's house.

RICHARD STEVENS (Detective Officer M). I took the prisoner into custody on Wednesday, 19th April—I read the warrant to him—he said "Yes, it is quite right; I did assault him. I received great provacation to do so; he came to my house when I was away and asked my wife to leave me and live with him. At the time I went there I was the worse for drink. I deny all knowledge of using a knife; I never had one"—I had not said anything about a knife, but the warrant was "for wounding."

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "Idid not intend to injure him; I intended to give him a hiding with my fist for interfering with my wife when I was away. There was no knife used."

GUILTY of unlawfully wounding Eighteen Monthis' Imprisonment .

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-359a
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

359. ROBERT BENNETT (30) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. POLAND conducted the Prosecution; and MR. SAFFORD the Defence.

KATE SYMES . On 18th February I was housekeeper at the Ship, Kennington Road; Mr. South is the manager—between 9 and 10 o'clook that night I served the prisoner with some whiskey cold and some stout and mild ale—they came to 2 1/2d.——he gave me a bad florin—I said "This is bad. I wonder you could not see it before you tendered it"—I passed it to Mr. South, who broke it, and said "Have you any "more about you of that sort—he pulled out some odd silver, and. I detected another one, which Mr. South broke also—some of the pieces were given to the prisoner and some to the constable—after the second florin was broken the prisoner went away; he was not sober—he returned in an hour and insisted that the money was good—he was not sober then, and demanded to see the man who broke the coins—Mr. South was called, and the prisoner was given in custody.

Cross-examined. He threw the florin down so that it sounded on the counter—he did not tender the second piece, I picked it out—I did not hear him say that he had been manager of the Ship, and was accustomed to come there—I never saw him there before, but he lived with my present employer before my time—a cabman was there, who had his fare outside—I never left the bar, I was very busy—when he came back the second time. he said "Where is the man who broke my money, because it was not bad "I sent up for him, and he came down—I should imagine that it was change for a sovereign that he threw down—he tendered me good money.

HENRY MORGAN . I am a cabman, of 33, Penton Place, Kennington Park Road—on the night of 18th February I was outside this shop, and the prisoner drove up with a pony and cart with another man, who I had seen before—the prisoner got out and went into the shop; he asked me if I would have a drop of liquour with him, and I went inside with him and had 2d. worth of gin—he put a florin on the counter; the last witness said that it was bad, and Mr. South broke it—he then chucked 14s. or 16s. on the counter, and she said "There is another"—Mr. South broke that also—the prisoner gave his name and address and went away.

WILLIAM LANE . I am a commercial traveller, of 36, St. Mary's Square, Kennington Road—on 18th February, I was at the bar of the Ship, and saw the prisoner there—I saw him give a florin and saw it broken—the

constable had some of the pieces, and the prisoner had some—he threw some more money on the counter; I saw a pony chaise outside.

Cross-examined. I heard the prisoner say that he had picked up a strange man who asked him to give him a ride, which ho did—I saw the prisoner come to the Ship with a man in a dog-cart—I saw him when he returned the second time, but I did not hear him say that his friend who was with him came with him from the Mitre, driving.

HENRY BREARY (Policeman LR 21). I was called to the Ship, and Mr. South said "This man has tendered two bad florins"—six or eight pieces of florins were on the counter; I picked them up—the prisoner said that he had formerly lived at the house and had kept several houses and was a respectable man—the manager said "If you will give me your address I will let you go; "He took out his pocket-book; I lent him a pencil and he wrote William Holmes, 2, Sidney Villas, New Thornton Heath, Croydon," and I made this copy of it—he put the two biggest pieces of the florin in his pocket—I went out, the prisoner followed me and said good-night, and drove away alone, he had been drinking, but know what he was about—about three-quarters of an hour afterwards I was sent for to the same public-house—the prisoner was there and asked for his good money; he had been drinking—Miss Symes went up to Mr. South, and came down and said "You put it in your pocket"—he said I did no such thing—I told him that he had taken it out of ray hand, and then they gave him in custody—Mr. South gave me the other pieces—I took the prisoner to the station, searched him and found 14s. 6d. in good silver, and ll 1/2d. in bronze, a gold watch and chain, and twenty-three duplicates of gold and silver watches and lockets, four books, and a gun license, in the name of Robert Bennett, 1, Aldis Street, Tooting—he had refused to give any name at the station, but I afterwards he owned to the name of Robert Bennett—I examined the cart, removed the straw, and took up the oil cloth, which fitted the bottom of the cart, under that I found these four florins wrapped in tissue paper—the coins were laid in front of him, and I told him where I had found them; he said that he picked a young man up who asked him to give him a ride, and he had done so—he said "I pulled up at the Ship public-house, which I used to live at; it is a house I never pass; a man wanted to buy a ticket of a watch and I sold it to him for 2s.;"I heard him tell Mr. South that ho had changed a sovereign at a public-house in Chancery Lane—at the police-court next morning, he said that he had sold some stamps for 14s., 6d. opposite the Philharmonic, at Islington—I did not find the pieces of coin on him on the second occasion.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These are pieces of two bad florins—these four florins are also bad and from the same mould, but I cannot tell whether they are from the same mould as the others, they are too much knocked about.

Cross-examintd. I can say that these are pieces of two florins because there are two D.G.'s.

The Prisoner received a good diameter.


1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-360a
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

Related Material

360. ROBERT BENNETT was again indicted for unlawfully having in his possession four counterfeit florins with intent utter them, upon which no evidence was offered.


1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-361a
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

361. ROBERT COATES (34) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. POLAND conducted the Prosecution; MR. HORACE AVORY the Defence.

CAROLINE CARTER . My husband keeps the Archduke at Walworth—on 18th April I served the prisoner with half-pint of ale; he gave me a shilling—I put it in the till by itself because I noticed the way he gave it to me—I was examining it—I expected my husband to come in a minute—I gave the prisoner 6d. and 5d. in bronze, and went on serving customers—the prisoner then asked me for a 1d. cigar and gave me another 1s; I kept it in my hand and gave him 6d. and 5d. change—I took it to my husband in the parlour and found it was bad—I then went to the till and took the other 1s. out, and that was bad also; I gave it to my husband—the prisoner made a mistake and went out at the back gate, he found he could not get out that way, came back and went out—my husband went after him and he was taken in custody.

Cross-examined. This was on Easter Tuesday—I emptied one compartment of the till to put the 1s. in before I gave him his change.

CHARLES CARTER . I am the husband of the last witness—she brought me a bad 1s. and I went out and saw the prisoner about 500 yards from the house—he got into a tram car and afterwards got on to the roof—I called a constable, the car was stopped, and he was given in custody—my wife gave me a second shilling and I gave the 2s. to the constable.

GEORGE ADAMS (Policeman P 203). I called the prisoner off a tram car and said you have passed two bad shillings at a public-house and I shall take you to the station—he said "It is a mistake"—I found on him at the station three good shillings and 2s. 3d. in bronze.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These two shillings are bad and from the same would.


He was further charged with having been convicted of an attempt to commit felony, which charge, not being within the Habitual Criminals Act, Mr. Poland offered no evidence upon.

NOT GUILTY of the previous conviction**— Fifteen months' Imprisonment .

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-362a
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > no evidence

Related Material

362. EDWIN SODEN (37) and GEORGE INMAN (36) , Stealing three acks of flour the property of Peter Mumford the master Edwin Soden.

EDWIN SODEN PLEADED GUILTY and MR. WOODGATE, for the Prosecution, ofered no evidence against Inman.


SODEN—GUILTY Twelve Months' Imprisonment .

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

1st May 1876
Reference Numbert18760501-363a
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

Related Material

363. HANNAH WEATHERLEY (60), was indicted for wilful and corrupt perjury.

MR. MEAD conducted the Prosecution; and MR. BESLEY the Defence. James Elliott (Policeman M 138). On Friday night, 31st March, I was duty outside the Dun Cow, in the Old Kent Road—I saw Charles Henry utler come across the road in company with two other men—they were working about with whips and creating a disturbance—one struck me on the g—I said "You had better go away quietly and do not have any disturbance here"—I did not say to Butler "Go on, you d——scamp"—he said The policemen are a b——lot of scamps"—I said "The policemen are at scamps, go away"—the prisoner Weatherley came up and took Butler tay—a mob collected—afterwards Butler returned; he struck me in the est, and I fell to the ground—when on the ground I was bitten on the tger—I got up and secured him, and fell to the ground again, when my

hair was pulled by some of the women—I was kicked in the back and in the side—I made for Butler again in the road, and I was down again—afterwards I secured Butler going into his doorway—police-constable Ratkins followed up—Mrs. Weatherloy was outside—it is not true I hit her a smack in the eye"—there was a struggle to take Butler into custody; I caught hold of him, and Mrs. Weatherley was on the top of my back, and said "What are you going to take my poor son for?"—I said "You know very well"—I took him into custody with the assistance of another constable—the next day ho was charged before Mr. Benson, the Magistrate at Southwark police-court, with an assault upon me—I gave my evidence; Lane was called on my behalf and the other contable, Rapkins—a woman of the name of Butler was called for the defence, and after that the prisoner was called—I heard her sworn, and I heard her give her evidence—the Magistrate, after Mrs. Weatherley was examined, adjourned the hearing until the 3rd April—Mr. Washington was there, and made a statement—on the night of the 31st I saw Mrs. Weatherley in the Dun Cow; I should think she was there an hour and a half—whilst I was there "a potman did not bring out a pot of ale," and I did not drink it—I am a teetotaller—the statement that Mr. Washington made was that he would wish to with draw the charge that Mrs. Weatherley had made against me—she said something about some friends, and had had a deal of trouble.

Cross-examined. I heard Mr. Washington say that she had just received a letter from her son-in-law mentioning the death of her daughter in India—it was before the 5l. penalty was imposed—Mr. Washington said she was in great excitement—the spot where I was stationed is a fixed point; we move if we are called—it is in front of the Dun Cow—Butler struck me on the leg with a whip, and as soon as I told him to go away he said "You are drunk"—there was a crowd at that time—Butler himself said the police men were d——scamps—some friend of Butler got him away quietly—I should think not five minutes after there was a return of the disturbance—I had only time to walk down the road and turn round—up to this time I never attempted to take Butler into custody—I was bitten and kicked—there was a crowd—it was in reference to the assault that 5l. penalty was imposed upon Butler—I charged him with striking mo in the chest and biting my finger—I believe Mrs. Weatherley's evidence was that she took Butler into the house—I said she was inside the public-house, the Dun Cow—she was asked by Mr. Benson if she had not been drinking inside the public-house, and she denied it three times—I mentioned before the Magistrate that I was a teetotaller, and it was in reference to whether I had been drinking while on duty that the case was remanded, and to ascertain the truth of her statement against me—I did not charge her until the Magistrate directed me.

Re-examined. She did not appear excited to me when she gave her evidence.

ARTHUR HERBERT SOFFORD . I am chief clerk at the Southwark police-court—Charles Henry Butler was charged with on the 1st April with an assault upon the police-constable, Elliott—the defendant, Hannah Weatherley, was called as a witness—I took a note of her evidence. (The depositions, being read, stated that she had not been in the Dun Cow on the 31st March; that Elliott had a pot of ale brought to him outside the said Dun Cow by the waiter or potman, and that she saw Elliott drink of the said pot of ale.)

ROBERT RAPKINS (Policeman MR 16). I assisted the last constable to take Butler into custody on the 31st March—he was arrested outside of his house—I saw the prisoner there—I did not see James Elliott assault her—he did not "Hit her a smack in the eye "While I was there—he might have lone it before I arrived—they were struggling in the passage, and there was great difficulty in arresting Butler until his father came down and advised him to go quietly.

Cross-examined. I saw the mob running, and the constable and I folowed—when I got to the house there was a struggle and they got into the passage—there was struggling in the passage which was very narrow, and whatever blows or injuries were received by anybody I could not say by whom in that scuffle.

JAMES CHARLWOOD (Police Inspector M). On the 1st April I was directed 7 Mr. Benson to inquire into a statement, and I went with the prisoner to 10 Dun Cow—I saw Mr. Basil, the landlord, and told him an allegation had cen made that constable 138 had been served with a pot of ale outside his ouse by a potman, and Mrs. Weatherley says she could identify him, and wanted to see, by direction,"the whole of the persons on his establishment—the prisoner then said "I have made a mistake, I hope you won't hurt 10 mother of nineteen children"—four servants were then called down and he said "It is no use to call them, it is neither of these men, I have made mistake, and I am sorry for him"—I heard the prisoner charged with rjury at the station on the 3rd—she said "Ido not know what could success me to be so wicked, I did it to save my son"—it is a very serious ence for a constable to drink while on duty.

Cross-examined. She did not tell me of, the death of her daughter, a of a receipt of a letter.

WILLIAM LOWDEN . I am barman, at the' Dun Cow—I recollect the inspector coming there on the Saturday afternoon—the night before I had it taken any beer out to a constable—I can say Mrs. Weatherley was in your house; because I served her with a pint of stout and mild—she might have been there longer than an hour—I saw no liquor taken out.

Cross-examined. I was there all the evening—we have tea about 5 o'clock, I supper at 8 o'clock, from that time I was there. till we shut—Mrs. Benson is a relative of mine, employed at the same public-house—I did her say to the defendant when she was there withanother woman, is not our habit to serve policemen with beer, but people often take outside to drink"—it is a fact that people take beer outside, carriers.

Re-examined. I did not see any taken out.

THOMAS SLADE . I am barman, at the Dun Cow—I remember the police-stable coming on the 1st April, with Mrs. Weatherley, the night before had not taken out any beer to a police-constable or anyone else—during night a pot of beer was not taken out to my knowledge—Mrs. Weatherley c to me on the Saturday before dinner time, and asked me if I saw her he 31st March, the evening before; I said "No, I did not"—she then "No, I was not in the house at all, it was the night before"—I said I saw you"—she afterwards asked me to sign a paper that she was in the house—I said "No, certainly not, you might have been in thirty and I not see you"—we two barmen are the only two employed, and are two barmaids—Mr. Basil does not allow anything to be taken out the police.

Cross-examined. People do come and take ale outside to drink often-have known the potman take out ale to the carriers—I won't swear there was no ale taken out on this particular might.

Re-examined. I did not draw any beer for the police, or to be taken out.

The prisoner received a good character.


Recommended to mercy by. the Jury, because of her excitement— Eight Month' Imprisonment .


View as XML