Old Bailey Proceedings.
24th October 1864
Reference Number: t18641024

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Old Bailey Proceedings front matter.
24th October 1864
Reference Numberf18641024

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Sessions Paper.








Short-hand Writers to the Court.








Law Publishers to the Queen's Most Excellent Majesty.



On the Queen's Commission of



The City of London,





Held on Monday, October 24th, 1864, and following days.

BEFORE THE RIGHT HON. WILLIAM LAWRENCE, LORD MAYOE of the City of London; Sir FREDERICK POLLOCK, Knt., Lord Chief Barou of Her Majesty's Court of Exchequer; Sir SAMUEL MARTIN , Knt., one other of the Barons of Her Majesty's Court of Exchequer; Sir JAMES SHAW WILLSS, Knt., one of the Justices of Her Majesty's Court of Common Pleas;



WATERLOW, Esq., Aldermen of the said City; THOMAS CHAMBERS , Esq., Q. C.,

Common Serjeant of the said City; and ROBERT MALCOLM KERR, Esq. Judge of the Sheriffs Court; Her Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer and General Gaol Delivery of Newgate holden for the said City, and Judges of the Central Criminal Court.

THOMAS DAKIN, Esq., Alderman.

ROBERT BBSLBY, Esq., Alderman.







A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (t) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoner's age.


OLD COURT. Thursday, October 27th, Friday, 28th, and Saturday, 29th, 1864.

Before Lord Chief Baron Pollock (with Mr. Baron Martin).

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-920
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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920. FRANZ MULLER (23), was indicted for the Wilful Murder of Thomas Briggs.

MR. SOLICITOR-GENERAL, with MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE, MESSRS. HANNEN, GIFFARD, and BEASLBT, conducted the Prosecution. MR. SERJEANT PARRY, with MESSRS. METCALFE and BESLEY, appeared for the Defence. DAVID BUCHAN. I reside at 23, Nelson-square, Peckham—the deceased, Mr. Briggs, was a relation of my wife's—I believe he was sixty-nine years of age, and about five feet nine or ten inches in height—he came to our house on 9th July, almost exactly at 5 o'clock; he came very punctually—he had a black bag with him, out of which he took something at our house—he dined with us that day, and left about half-past 8—I accompanied him from my house to the Lord Nelson, in the Old Kent-road, and saw him into an omnibus—he would get out at King William-street, for the purpose of going to Fenchurch-street railway-station—when I parted with him he was in his usual health and spirits—I know the general appearance of the watch be used to wear; I could not swear to it—I know he wore a watch and chain; be used to wear it in his waistcoat-pocket, attached to a button-hole, the chain attached to his button-hole at one end and the watch in his pocket—he had a small seal attached to the watch, and two keys—I am sure he had his watch that night, from his referring to it before he left my house to see whether he was in time for the train—in consequence of some information that I received I went next morning to the railway, and then to Mr. Briggs's house; it was between 10 and 11 in the forenoon—he was still alive, but quite insensible, and remained so until he died—I left before he died, but I understand he died before midnight—while I was there he did not recover consciousness.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PABRT. Q. Was Mr. Briggs perfectly sober, when he parted from you? A. Perfectly sober—he was in good spirits, and perfectly self-collected; I am quite certain of that—my wife is

here—she was examined before the Coroner—I don't know sufficiently of Mr. Briggs's habits to know whether he had more than one hat; I should think he had—I believe he was a gentleman well off in the world—he lived in a fair and reasonable style—the Peckham omnibus goes up the Old Kent-road, through the Borough, over London-bridge, into King William-street—that is its route from Peckham—I walked with Mr. Briggs to the Lord Nelson, which is in the Old Kent-road—the omnibus starts from there—I am not aware, of my own knowledge, that any threats had been held out by anyone to Mr. Briggs—I heard my wife say so; my wife was examined before the Coroner, but not before the Magistrate.

CAROLINE BUCHAN . I am a relation of the deceased gentleman, Mr. Briggs—he was at our house to dinner on 9th July—he was quite well when he left—he was perfectly sober—I never saw him again alive.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. You were examined before the Coroner, I believe? A. I was, and not before the Magistrate; my evidence was considered of no importance, I believe; it was simply corroborating my husband's statement—I was asked certain questions before the Coroner—I have not personally heard any one use threats towards Mr. Briggs—I have not heard it from any person's lips, other than through a third party—the Coroner himself asked me that question—it was a person to whom he refused to leud money.

THOMAS FISHBOURNE . I am a ticket-collector at the Fenchurch-street station—it is my duty to mark the tickets of passengers who are going by the North London railway—for that purpose I stand at the bottom of the stairs which lead up to the platform—there is a considerable flight of stairs up to the platform, which passengers have to pass after they leave me—I was not particularly acquainted with the late Mr. Briggs; I knew him by sight, that was all—he was in the habit of travelling by the railway—I saw him on the night of 9th July—he presented his ticket to me, in the ordinary way, at a quarter to 10 o'clock—a train would start about that time—I don't know whether it was a minute or so late—he presented his ticket to me in time to start by the train which started, or ought to have started, at 9. 45—he spoke to me and I answered him—I marked his ticket—I heard 10. of his death about 12 o'clock on the next day—I went to his house and 11. recognized him there.

HARRY VERNEZ . I am a clerk in the employment of Messrs. Robarts and Co.—on Saturday, 9th July, I went to the Hackney station of the North London railway, at about 10 o'clock in the evening—I was in company with Mr. Jones, who is a clerk in the same employment as myself—I took a first-class ticket for Highbury—on the arrival of the train from Fenchurch-street I went to a first-class carriage—I opened the door myself; it was empty, and I and Mr. Jones got in—I sat on the right-hand side going in—that would he with my face to the engine; about the centre of the carriage, I think—before the train started Mr. Jones called my attention to some blood on his hand—we immediately called the guard—he brought a light, and we all got out; there were two other people besides Mr. Jones and myself, who got into the carriage—when the guard came with the light, I saw a hat, a stick, and a black bag in the carriage—the guard then locked up the carriage, leaving those articles in it, and we got into another carriage.

SIDNEY JONES . I live at 10, Barnsbury-park, Islington, and am a clerk in the banking-house of Robarts and Co.—on the evening of 9th July I was with the last witness, Mr. Vernez—I went with him to the Hackney station about 10 o'clock, and took a first-class ticket; I was provided with a ticket

—I won't say that I took it, or my friend—we proceeded by the train then going to Highbury—we got into a first-class carriage; the same carriage—he opened the door, I believe—on entering the carriage I saw a black bag on the left-hand side of the seat nearest the door, and I threw it on the opposite seat.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARKY. Q. You knew Mr. Briggs very well, I believe? A. Yes—I was in the same bank with him as a clerk—I had seen him during the previous twelve months from day to day—I had known him about four years.

BENJAMIN AMES . I am a guard on the North London railway—I was the guard of the train that left Fenchurch-street at 9.50 on Saturday night, 9th July—it was five minutes after its time—being late in arriving at Fenchurch-street I had no time to see the tickets or shut the doors, because I had to shut the doors on the arrival side—I knew Mr. Briggs just as a passenger—I did not observe him that night—on the train arriving at the Hackney-station my attention was called by Mr. Vernez to the state of a first-class carriage, No. 69; after I got notice from the gentleman that there was something the matter with that compartment of the carriage, I went back to my breakvan and procured my hand-lamp, which we always carry—I then examined the carriage—on the near side cushion there were marks of blood; that is, the cushion nearest the engine—on the quarter-light, on the near side, there was blood trickling down—the quarter-light is a square of glass that shows light into the carriage even with the seat—after examining that part of the carriage I looked underneath and found a hat and stick—the hat was flattened up—this (produced) looks very much like the hat; there were marks of blood upon it—it was flattened up—there was blood also on the stick and on the bag—I pulled the windows up and locked the carriage door—there were no passengers in the carriage when I went to inspect it—I locked up the carriage with the hat, and stick, and bag in it, and told them to telegraph on Chalk Farm for my inspector to meet me there—Mr. Greenwood is the superintendent there—when we arrived at Chalk Farm Mr. Greenwood examined the carriage; it was then locked up again and brought to Bew station—it has never been used since; it stands in the shed there now—the blood has not been washed away that I know of—Mr. Greenwood took charge of the hat, stick, and bag, as lost property, at the lost-property office.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Was there a considerable quantity of blood? A. There was a goodish drop of blood altogether about—there were a great many spots of blood on the carriage-cushion—I did not notice any on the floor—on the opposite cushion there was a finger-mark, as though a hand had been wiped on it—the blood was in a liquid state when I saw it—there was blood on the glass of the window; it seemed to be a spot about the size of a crown-piece, and was trickling down the glass—the largest pool of blood that I saw was, I should think, about the size of a sixpence; it might be a little more; that was on the cushion—there was more than one spot, two or three—I cannot give you the time that I arrived at Hackney; I can tell you the time that I left—we do not book the time we arrive, only the time of departure—we left Fenchurch-street at 9.50 and we left Hackney at 10.15—we left the Bow-station at one minute past 10—there is a station between Bow and Hackney, Victoria-park-station, or it is sometimes called Hackney-wick—I have not measured the distance between the Bow station and Hackney—I did not see Mr. Briggs that night—I did not see him at the Bow station—we left Hackney-wick at 10.5 and Hackney at 10.15—my attention being called to the state of the carriage caused me to be longer at Hackney—we stayed there, I should say, about four minutes—I have not

measured the distance between Bow-station and Hackney-wick—we deviate in the time it takes us to travel—sometimes we run harder than at others; in greasy weather we cannot run so fast—on the night in question we may have been three minutes or three minutes and a half in going from Bow-station to Hackney-wick—I had nothing to do with the discovery of the body—I do not know where it was found.

MR. SOLICITOR-GENERAL. Q. You speak of blood on the seat; did you observe blood on any other part of the carriage when you examined it first? A. On the quarter-light and on the off-side cushion, the same side, apparently a piece about the size of a fourpenny-piece—I examined the door on the other side—there was blood there, on the handle, on the off-side.

WILLIAM TIMMS . I am a guard on the North London Railway—I brought up a train of empty carriages from Victoria-park or Hackney-wick station on 9th July—I left about twenty minutes past 10—we have to go over the canal-bridge—when we arrived at about that point, the driver called my attention to an object in the six-foot way—we put on the breaks, and stopped the train as soon as we possibly could—on returning to the spot I found it was the body of a man lying there—he was lying on his back, with his head towards Hackney—he was not lying in a slanting direction, but straight; about midway on the six-foot way; that is between the up and down lines—I picked the body up, and took it to a public-house in the neighbourhood—he was alive at that time—a medical man was sent for directly.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. You say you carried the body; how many persons were with you, do you think, or assisted you, or were about at the time? A. It took four or five of us to carry the body across—no persons came to the place where the body lay till they were called upon—we went to the public-house and got assistance—several persons came besides the persons that carried the body; a good many persons came besides, I dare say there might be a dozen altogether.

COURT. Q. YOU found the body lying straight between the rails? A Yes; between the up and down lines, in the six-foot—the head was towards Hackney.

ALFRED EKIN . I was the engine-driver of the train of which the last witness was the guard on 9th July—we started from the Victoria-park station about twenty minutes past 10, and were proceeding on the line towards Fenchurch-street—on my way my attention was attracted to something on the line—it was a black object lying in the six-foot; I should say it was very nearly halfway between the two stations—I have not measured the distance—we had not passed the canal-bridge when I saw it; we were just entering on to it—I called the attention of the last witness to what I saw—we stopped the engine as soon as we could, and went back to where the body was lying—I did not take part in carrying the body; I stopped with the train while they conveyed it away—I did not go to the public-house—after the body was carried away, I did not see any more of it—when I first called the attention of the last witness to it there was nobody else there but our fireman—no one came before the last witness had gone to the public-house.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Where the body was found, do the rails run on an embankment? A. Yes; I cannot rightly tell you the height of the embankment, but I should say it was about eight or nine yards.

EDWARD DOUGAN Policeman, K 71) I was on duty in Wick-lane, Bow,

about twenty minutes past 10, on the night of 9th July—in consequence of a cry I heard on the line, I went up the embankment—it is a steep embankment—I dare say it is about eight or nine steps up to it—there is a kind of path made there, by persons going up and down, at the corner of the bridge—I saw several persons carrying a gentleman down off the line—I accompanied the persons who carried him, to the Mitford Castle public-house—I saw his condition, and sent for a surgeon—I searched him, and found four sovereigns and some keys in his left-hand trousers' pocket—in the vest pocket I found a florin and half of a first-class ticket of the North London Railway—in the right-hand trousers' pocket there was ten shillings and sixpence, in silver and copper, and some more keys—I also found a silver snuff-box, and a number of letters and papers, and a silk-handkerchief, and there was a diamond-ring on the little finger, which I took away—there was a gold fastening attached to his waistcoat, but I could not undo it—it was a patent fastening—I saw that his shirt was much rumpled, and there was one black stud in the front, which I took also, only one—I have measured the distance from Bow Station to the spot where the body was found—it is 1,434 yards, and from the spot to Hackney-wick Station is 740 yards—the whole distance from Bow to Hackney-wick is a mile and 414 yards—I have not measured the distance from Hackneywick to Hackney.

FRANCIS TOULMIN . I am a medical practitioner and Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons, carrying on my business at Lower Clapton—I was the usual medical attendant of the late Mr. Briggs, and had been so for some years—I believe him to have been in his 70th year—he enjoyed very good health until this spring, when he had an illness, erysipelas, from which he had perfectly recovered, but he was in danger for some time—on the morning of 10th July, between 2 and 3 o'clock, I was sent for—I arrived between 2 and 3—I cannot speak to half an hour—it was before 3—I found Mr. Briggs still living—he was groaning, but perfectly unconscious—I was with him from time to time, until he died at a quarter to 12 on the Sunday night.

Q. I suppose it was a hopeless case from the commencement? A. Nothing whatever could have been done in a surgical point of view—I made a careful post-mortem examination on the Tuesday following, in the presence of Mr. Brereton, Mr. Cooper, and other gentlemen—I made notes of it immediately afterwards, as soon as I returned home.

Q. I dare say, from your recollection, you can tell us what was the state of the head? A. The cartilage of the left ear was severed by a jagged wound—about an inch anterior to that ear was a deeper wound, that extended to the bone, if not into it; that I will not undertake to say exactly, but it was to the bone—over the temporal muscle was a contused wound, a superficial and grazed wound, not a deep wound, what one would call a contused wound—there were several wounds on the scalp, incised wounds; I think as many as four, and one other, that was near the crown of the head, (pointing out its position)—it was rather behind the others, but on the crown of the head, a little behind what we term the vertex—that was an incised wound, three inches in length—the others were about three-fourths of an inch in length, and all having a direction from before to behind—that applies to all the wounds on the top of the head—those wounds all extended through the hairy scalp, down to the pericranium, the membrane that invests the skull, but had not divided that membrane—on removing the scalp, the skull was found to be extensively fractured, the fissures extending in various directions, radiating as it were from the centre—I have here some sketches that were taken—it is not quite possible to say whether that implies one blow, or more—

in this centre, a portion of the outer commencement of the parietal bone was separated entirely, about three-fourths of an inch in length, and half an inch in width—that was perfectly separated, and fell out—it was a triangular portion, quite detached—there was effusion of blood between the scalp and the calvarium, or skull-cap—there was a large quantity between the scalp and the skull, or bones of the skull—there was further blood between the skull-cap and the dura mater, or investing membrane of the brain—I have not described all the wounds, though probably enough—besides these, the temporal bone was driven in upon the brain.

Q. Were the wounds all, or any of them, in your opinion, inflicted by a blunt or a sharp instrument? A. The wounds on the top of the head I cannot account for, except upon the presumption that they were inflicted by a blunt instrument, used with considerable force—the wound on the left ear I believe to have been also inflicted by a blunt instrument, but of that I will not speak so certainly; that was my impression.

Q. Are you able to say whether many blows had been struck? A. There were four or five distinct wounds on the scalp, which would account, I presume, for so many distinct blows—my observation as to their being made with a blunt instrument applies to all of those, and I am especially guided to that, by what I referred to just now, namely, that the pericranium was not divided, which I assume it would have been if a sharp instrument had been used—there was no wound about the head that could be attributed to a sharp instrument.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. How many wounds were inflicted altogether? A. Five or six—the contused wound on the temple may have arisen from a fall—the incised wounds on the crown of the head were three inches long—they went through the scalp, but not through the pericranium—the thickness of the scalp would probably be not quite half an inch—they were, perhaps, not so much as half an inch deep; so much depends on the thickness of the hairy scalp—Mr. Briggs was about five feet eight inches in height—he was somewhat heavier in weight recently, because he had increased in flesh since his illness—I should imagine he was between eleven and twelve stone, but it is mere conjecture—I should say he was not more than twelve stone.

ALFRED HENRY BRERETON . I am a surgeon, and live in the Old Ford-road—I was called in to see Mr. Briggs when he was at the Mitford Castle public-house, on Saturday, 9th July, about 11 o'clock—I was the first medical man that saw him—I found him in a lower room, near to the bar—he was evidently suffering from compression of the brain—the room being close, I had him removed to an upper room, and there laid on a mattress on a table—I endeavoured to restore reaction by different methods, but failed—there was a jagged cut wound on the ear, across the cartilage of the ear—in front of the same ear, the left, there was also another jagged wound—above the same ear there was also a swelling, a scalp tumour—there were also two deep wounds on the vertex of the head.

Q. Could you judge from the appearances in what manner those wounds had been inflicted? A. I made, at the time, two distinctions between the wounds; that is between the wounds on the vertex of the head, and those on the left side of the head—I thought the wounds on the left side of the head were owing to the fall from the carriage, and the wounds above I attributed to some blunt instrument, probably used with violence—he did not recover his consciousness during the time I was with him—I was with him the whole night, up to 6 next morning—he was then attended by Mr. Toulmin, his ordinary medical attendant—I made some examination of the

carriage at 6 o'clock on the Sunday morning—on the off-side there was evidently blood spurted on the lower panels of the carriage, on the inside of the door—there was also blood on the iron step, and also on the footboard of the carriage, and the platform.

COURT. Q. Will you repeat that? A. There was blood spurted in the outside lower panels on which the body of the carriage rests, and on the inside of the panel of the door as you open the door from the inside; also on the iron step, and on the wooden platform.

MR. SOLICITOR-GENERAL. Q. What is the wooden platform? A. The wooden rail which forms one of the steps into the carriage, and which you step on before you get on to the iron step—there was also blood on the kinder wheel of that division of the carriage—I did not observe whether there was any on the door handle—I found a link of a chain in the carriage—I gave it to the police—I found it on the near-side mat, in front of the near-side cushion.

VINCENT MORTON COOPER . I am a member of the Royal College of Surgeons—I was called in to see Mr. Briggs shortly after the accident—I saw him about an hour after the occurrence—I made an examination with Mr. Toulmin and Mr. Brereton—there were some scalp wounds over the two parietal bones, there was a jagged wound of the left ear, also a tumour over the left ear—there were a few bruises about the forehead, one, especially, and also a large wound in front of the ear, a deep wound—the skull was fractured.

Q. Could you form any opinion whether any or all of the wounds you have mentioned were caused by a blunt instrument? A. I think that the wounds on the top of the head were caused by a blunt instrument, but not the wound over the left ear, taking a blunt instrument not to be a stone, or anything of that kind—I think it was caused by coming into collision with a stone on the line.

COURT. Q. YOU think it was caused by a fall on a stone? A. I think so.

GEORGE GREENWOOD . I am station-master at Chalk Farm station on the North London Railway—on Saturday night, 9th July, about half-past 9 o'clock, Ames drew my attention to a compartment of a first-class carriage at the Chalk Farm Station—I took from it a hat, a bag, and a walking-stick—these (produced) are the three articles—I locked them up until the next morning, and then gave them into the hands of Lambert the policeman.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. When do you say you took this hat from the carriage? A. About 10.30—I took it into my own room, and locked it up for the night—that I am sure of—I gave it to Lambert the next morning, Sunday morning—it is not now in exactly the same condition as when I had it—it has been torn about—the lining was not quite so much torn as it is at present—the lining was pointing upwards, as if the hat had been pressed down hard on the head, and pulled off, and the lining taken out with it.

LEWIS LAMBERT (Policeman, K 311). On Sunday afternoon, 10th July, I went to the Chalk Farm station of the North London Railway—the station-master, Mr. Greenwood, handed me a hat, stick, and bag—these are the articles—I took them them to Mr. Briggs's house in Clapton-square, to see if they were owned—young Mr. Briggs owned the stick and bag, but the hat he knew nothing of—I took them to Bow station, and gave them up to Inspector Kerressey—they were in my care till I gave them up to him.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. You dropped an expression that young Mr. Briggs would not own the hat? A. No; he did not—he did

not know anything of it—he said it was not his father's hat—that was the hat found in the railway carriage—I had nothing to do with the other hat.

WALTER KERRESSEY (Police-inspector, K) I produce the hat, stick, and bag—I received them from Lambert—they have not been in my care ever since—I handed the hat over to Inspector Tanner on the 11th—the stick and bag have also been under his care since the last examination at Bow-street—up to that time they were under my care—on Sunday morning, 10th July, about 10 o'clock, I went to the Bow station, and in a shed there saw railway carriage, No. 69—I observed its condition—the handle of the door on the off-side was bloody—that would be the off-side, supposing it was going in the direction of Hackney—I also observed blood on the inside, on the cushions, on the front part of the carriage, and likewise on the near window—there was a little blood on the off window, and a little blood on the off step, the footboard outside, on the same side as the handle, and also on the panel of the carriage, outside, on the same side—I afterwards went to Mr. Briggs's house in Clapton-square—I arrived there about 11 o'clock—I saw him—he was then alive, but insensible—I did not take anything from his waistcoat that morning, I did on the Tuesday morning—I observed a hook on his waistcoat that morning—I produce it—it was fastened to the waistcoat at the third button-hole—it was given to me on the Tuesday by Mr. Thomas Briggs—I saw him take it out of the waistcoat—it is a patent hook, difficult to undo—he knew how to undo it—it is now open, but, if closed, there are not many persons would know how to open it—I also produce a ring that I received from police-sergeant Prescott—it is what is commonly called a jump ring—Mr. Brereton was present at the time I received it (produced)—I have heard it termed a jump ring by watchmakers—I also produce a gold chain, with seals attached to it, a swivel seal, and two keys—I received that from Mr. Death.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Had you directions from Sir Richard Mayne to act in this case? A. I had directions from Sir Richard Mayne to go to New York—I went to New York on 22d July—up to that time I had been making inquiries in respect of this case, in regard to procuring evidence of all the facts connected with it, in order to bring them before the Coroner and the Magistrate—I know a person of the name of Thomas Lee—I only know him from seeing him, by being examined—he was not examined before the Coroner in my presence—he was not examined at all in my presence—I have heard that he was examined—I believe the first reward was offered about 11th July—that was a reward of 200l., 100l. by the Government, and 100l. by Robarts's Bank—afterwards, the North London Railway Company offered another 100l. reward, which made 300l.—I cannot tell when that was—it was immediately after, less than a week or so after, I think—these rewards were placarded at my station, and I have seen them at several stations—I cannot say that I have seen them all through London—my station is at Bow—I have seen them advertised in the newspapers—I have not seen them placarded on the walls in London—I have no doubt that they have been—I noticed that the handle of the door was bloody—I am sure of that—there was no blood at all on Mr. Briggs's hand.

DR. HENRY LETHEBY . I am professor of chemistry at the London Hospital—I made a particular inspection of this railway carriage, with a view to ascertain whether there was blood, the nature of the blood, and so on—I examined the carriage on Tuesday, 26th of July last—the carriage was at Bow—it was No. 69 carriage—I examined the first compartment of the carriage, next to the buffers—there were three compartments, I think—three

or four, I am not sure which, but it was the first of the three, the end compartment—I observed blood on two of the cushions—I have ascertained that it was blood—it had all the characteristics of human blood—I have measured the globules of the blood, and believe it to be human blood—it was on the first cushion on the left hand side of the carriage, as we were facing the front of the carriage; I mean, the cushion nearest the engine—it was very nearly in the centre of the cushion—the cushion had been turned—the proper side was covered with cloth, but it had been turned, so that the leather or under part had been turned uppermost, and therefore the blood had been retained in the cushion, and it was in a large quantity—I found the most blood about the middle of the cushion.

Q. I will draw your attention to what I may call the left hand corner, next the window; was there any blood in that corner, or near to it? A. There was blood on the glass immediately over the cushion—it was blood having all the characteristics of human blood—it was blood that had been living when it came on the glass, from the coagulum in it, and it contained also particles of brain matter—it was in the shape of two large spots—they appeared to be splashes of blood, not at all having the character of blood ejected from a vessel, but rather blood that had been splashed from a blow on the surface—each spot was very nearly about the size of a sixpence—if a person had been sitting on that part of the carriage, and had been struck on the left side of his head as he was leaning his head against the glass, that effect might have been produced—on the opposite cushion, the one farthest from the engine, there were about thirty spots of blood—they were small spots—there were two spots on the cushion next the principal cushion on the same side, and there was a spot likewise, I think, on the other side, in fact, there was blood on all four of the cushions—I examined the door, and the handle—there were spots of blood outside the door, but I did not observe any spots of blood on the door itself—there were spots of blood on the carriage, and the spots trailed in the direction of the hinder part of the carriage—I looked at the stick; there was blood upon that; I see it there now—there is very little, but it is there, in very thin layers on the surface of the stick—it covers a large surface, but in quantity it is not much; it extends from the lower part to where my finger is—there was no appearance of blood on the top part—I examined it very carefully, and could not find any blood on the top of the stick—I discovered marks of blood about six or seven inches from the top of the stick—the top is a good deal smoother than the rest.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARBY. Q. When did you examine the carriage? A. On 26th July, and the stick on the 6th October—there was very little blood on the stick—it is there now; I think it can be seen.

COURT. Q. Does it require a magnifying power to see it? A. Not to see the spots, but it requires a magnifying power to discover it to be blood.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. You have used a microscope, I take it for granted? A. I have used chemical tests, and the microscope—the microscope is the surest—I have not examined anything else at the request of the prosecution—I have examined no clothes of any kind.

JOHN DEATH . I live at 55, Cheapside, and am by business a jeweller—I know the prisoner very well—I first saw him on Monday, 11th July; he came into the shop just before 10 o'clock in the morning—a chain was produced to my brother—I was called into the shop by my brother—chains were being shown to the prisoner on the counter—my brother handed me

a chain, saying that the customer wished to part with it in exchange, asking me to value it—this (produced) is the chain and appendages—(This was numbered 1, produced by Kerressey)—I examined the chain closely with a magnifying glass in the presence of the prisoner—I then went behind him to weigh it in some scales that were fixed there—as I did so, he turned round to see me do it—I weighed the chain, and then told him that I would give him 3l. 10s. for it—he silently accepted that; tacitly accepted it—I understood him to accept that price—he was to take a chain in exchange—there were chains before him at the time—he then said, "I want one of the same cost"—I understood of the same value; but that was the term he used—I then selected a chain at 3l 15s., which was the nearest in price there—he made some objection to that—he said he objected to it on account of its having the drop appendages like this—it was a chain that hung in this form—it was objected to, but I persevered to sell that chain, and he then said he would take it if I would give it to him for the same sum, 3l. 10s—that I said I would not do—I then looked in my stock, and found a chain at 3l. 5s.—I showed him that, and he very shortly accepted that chain—I then asked my brother for a box, which he handed to me—I put the chain that he had bought into the box, and made a parcel of it, and gave it to him—after a moment's pause, I said, "What will you take for the 5s.?"—he immediately answered, "A finger; ring"—I showed him about half a dozen on a card, one of which was 5s.—I took that from the card, and gave it to him to try—he put it on his finger; it fitted him, and after some little observation of it, he accepted it for the balance—this (looking at it) is the box; the same shape, size, and colour as the one in which I packed the chain—I believe it to be the same box.

Q. Now just take into your hand that chain the prisoner left with you, and that jump-ring, as it is called. Can you tell me whether or not that ring ever formed part of that chain? A. There must have been a jump-ring to this chain at this junction to connect the two parts of the chain and the hook together—there is now a piece of wire to it (examining it through a magnifying glass) it is the same as when I examined it at first—it is a common pin without a head, bent round, which serves the same purpose; but the two parts of the chain are likewise held together by a piece of string, which connects this T with the chain, and that piece of string must have connected the chain for a length of time, so that the chain would not break when the jump-ring was taken away—the piece of string has been used for the purpose of attaching a gold key to the chain, so that the chain would not part on the jump-ring being broken—it is in the same condition as it was when I first saw it—I sent a letter by post to Inspector Kerressey at Bow that same afternoon, as the prisoner had been there in the morning, and afterwards went with the officers to New York—the ring had a white Cornelian stone with a head rudely engraved upon it.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Is it a common business of yours to exchange as well as sell directly? A. Very common—my brother saw the prisoner—the prisoner saw me weighing the chain; he was close to it; there was only a show-case parting him—before asking to exchange the chain, he did not ask me its value—he did not speak to me about it—the chain was handed to me by my brother—my brother is minding my shop—he will come here at short notice—I had never, to my knowledge, seen the prisoner in my shop before that morning—I am mostly in the shop—my brother and I are constantly in the shop; I am the more constantly of the two-my brother might do a little job, and I have nothing to do with it, or he might

receive communications from customers with which I might personally have nothing to do.

Q. Look at that chain (chain No. 2 was handed to the witness). Do you remember an incident of this kind in November, 1863; did not the prisoner get a link put to that chain in your shop, and did not he pay you 1s. 6d for it? A. Certainly not, to my knowledge.

Q. Did he not call two or three times at your shop after he had left the chain to have a link put to it? A. I never saw him before the Monday—the chain I gave in exchange was a chain in all respects the same as this—I believe this is the chain—(a chain numbered 3 was handed to the witness.)

Q. I made a mistake in putting the other chain into your hands; that is the chain I referred to with respect to a link being put to it; it is so trifling a circumstance that you may have forgotten it, but just look carefully at that chain? A. I don't think I ever saw it before—I could not tell my own workmanship in such a matter as the putting in of a link—I do not recollect the prisoner offering to exchange another chain at my shop in June last—my memory is very good for persons—this chain has been mended—I could not say whether it was my work or not—I cannot remember the chain.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Do you say you are sure you have never seen that chain? A. I am quite sure I have never seen that chain—as far as my memory serves me, until that morning I had never seen the prisoner.

ELLEN BLYTH . I am the wife of George Blyth, a messenger, and reside at 16, Park-terrace, Old Ford-road—I know the prisoner—he lodged at our house about seven weeks, ending on 14th July—he occupied the first floor back room—he took his meals with us—I knew what his occupation was, a tailor—he was in the habit of leaving our house about half-past 7, or from that to 8—I remember the morning of Saturday, 9th July—I saw the prisoner that morning—he went away about 11 o'clock—I had no reason to expect him home at any particular time—I sat up till 11 o'clock—he had not come home then—he had a latch-key—I did not hear him come in that night—my husband also went to bed at 11—I saw the prisoner next morning, between 8 and 9 o'clock—he breakfasted with us—he stopped at home during the day, and in the evening he went out with me and my husband, and came back with us—he spent the day with us on Sunday—on Monday morning, I saw him between 7 and 8—he breakfasted with us that morning—he left the house about 8 o'clock—I saw him again between 8 and 9 on the Monday evening—I had no conversation in particular with him on the Monday evening—he spent some time in my room with me—he showed me a gold Albert chain (looking at chain No. 2)—I do not know whether that is the chain; I did not examine it enough to know it again; it is something similar to it—he did not say anything to me about the chain—he left us on the Thursday morning—when he came to us, he brought a hat-box, and a long black box—this hat-box (produced) has the same name in it, "Walker, 49, Crawford-street, Marylebone"—I found that hat-box in the prisoner's room after he left—I delivered it up to police-inspector Tiddey.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. On the Sunday, did the prisoner pass his day much the same as he usually did with you? A. Yes—there was nothing in his manner at all different to that which he usually exhibited—he lodged with me seven weeks, but I have known him for

more than twelve months—I have always known him to be a quiet, inoffensive, well-behaved young man—I had plenty of opportunity of judging of his temper in every respect—he used to take his meals with us—he did so on the Sunday—he was of a very kind and humane disposition—he walked out with us on the Sunday, and exhibited the same manner that he usually exhibited—it was our usual Sunday walk—my husband was with us—my husband was not examined before the Cororner or before the Magistrate; he has not been examined at all—the prisoner wore the same dress on the Sunday that he wore on the Saturday.

Q. Did he wear the same dress on the Monday when he went out as he had worn on the Saturday and the Sunday; do you recollect? A. I cannot recollect the trousers, whether he wore his light trousers or his dark ones—he wore the same coat—a coat has been produced to me, which I recognised as the one that he wore—I believe this (produced) to be the coat that he wore on the Saturday, Sunday, and Monday—I am not sure as to the trousers—I am sure of the trousers he wore on the Sunday; they were the same as those on the Saturday; but I am not sure that the trousers he wore on the Monday were the same as those on the Saturday and Sunday—I was aware that he was lame—I think it was of the left foot—he wore a slipper on the Saturday—I gave that to Mr. Tiddey, the superintendent of police—this is it (produced)—this is the right-foot slipper—I am not certain which foot it was he was lame with—I am quite sure that he was lame, and that he had a slipper on on the Saturday when he went out—this is the slipper that was left at my house by the prisoner—I gave that up with the hat-box to Mr. Tiddey—the prisoner had been lame since the Thursday—the prisoner was very confidential with me and my husband—I do not know whether, when he left on Monday morning, about 8 o'clock, he was going to the docks—I did not know at that time whether he had been to the docks to make any inquiries as to a passage to America—I first heard of his intention to go to America a fortnight previous to his going, a fortnight previous to the 14th of July—he told me when he left in what vessel he was going, the Victoria—he did not give me any address in New York—I knew that he was going to New York—I received this letter from him (read: To Mrs. Blythe, 16, Parkterrace, Old Ford-road, Victoria-park, N. E. London. On the Sea, July 16, in the morning. Dear Friends, I am glad to confess that I cannot have a better time, as I have; if the sun shines nice and the wind blows fair, as it is at the present moment, everything will go well. I cannot write any more, only I have no postage. You will be so kind to take that letter in")—The prisoner is about twenty-three or twenty-four years of age—I did not wash for him until the last week—I then washed six new shirts for him.

MR. SOLICITOR-GENERAL. Q. YOU say that he walked out with you on Sunday, how long were you walking? A. Up till 9 o'clock.

COURT. Q. Had he a 'pair of slippers? A. Yes—he went out on Saturday with one of them—this is the one that be wore on his bad foot, the one that he took out with him; the other was left at Mrs. Repsch's.

GEORGE BLYTH . I am the husband of the last witness—I knew the prisoner as lodging with me—he used to go away with me in the morning when he first lodged with me—we sometimes left about half-past 7, or from that to a quarter to 8—from 7th to 14th July, we did not go away together in the morning—I left him at home every morning during that time—I went to town at my ordinary time—on Sunday, 10th, he took a walk with me and my wife in Victoria-park—Victoria-park is about two minutes

walk from our house—he came back with us in the evening—I heard him go up stairs to bed—I did not see him when he came back from town on Monday evening—he came home after I got home, I think, about 8, or between 8 and 9—he and Haffa came in together—I noticed his having a new chain—I had not noticed whether he had been wearing a chain for some time before that evening; he had not one for two or three weeks previously—before that two or three weeks, I had seen him wearing one—it was a different one to that which I saw him with on the Monday evening.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Do I understand you that he used to go out to his work with you up to 7th July I A. Yes—it was about the 7th that he hurt his foot—it was hurt by a cart running up against it—from that time he wore a slipper, up to the Sunday—he wore a slipper on the Sunday morning—I went out with him on the Sunday for a walk in Victoria-park, and my wife went with us—I think we walked all the time—I do not remember sitting down at all in the park—I do not remember whether he sat or not—his dress was the same on the Saturday as he wore on the Sunday—I cannot say as to the Monday; I did not see him much on the Monday; I went out to my work—this coat (produced) is like the one that he wore on the Saturday and Sunday—to the best of my belief, it is the coat—I could not swear to it.

Q. What character did the prisoner bear while he was with you? A. While he was with me, he was a well-conducted young man in every respect; a man of a kind, humane disposition—I never heard of his getting into rows, or committing any assaults—when he left on the Thursday morning, he bade me good-bye—he told me what vessel he was going in, the Victoria, from the London Docks to New York—I had heard of his going to America a fortnight before—it was made quite public amongst his friends and persons living there.

JURY. Q. What time did you leave him on the Saturday morning? A. About half-past 7—I returned home about 7—the prisoner was not at home then—I cannot tell whether he changed his clothes from the time I went out in the morning till the Sunday morning—I did not see him from the Saturday morning till the Sunday morning.

ELIZABETH SARAH REPSCH . I am the wife of William Repsch, a tailor, carrying on business in Jewry-street, Aldgate—I am an Englishwoman, born of German parents—my husband is a German—I have known Muller for some time—I first saw him nearly two years ago—he worked as a tailor—he worked with a person of the name of Hodgkinson for some time, I believe until 2d July—after 2d July he was not in any employment—he came to our house from time to time after 2d July—we were on friendly terms—he had a watch and chain of his own—I have seen it—he has worn it—I connot say for certainty when I last saw that watch and chain on him—I believe he had it while he was working for Mr. Hodgkinson—he told me that he had pledged it—I don't remember whether he told me what he had pledged it for—I believe the watch and chain were pledged separately—on the Saturday, 9th July, he had not got that watch and chain out of pledge—he was at our house on that Saturday—he came, I should think, between 12 and 1 o'clock, or from 11 to 1; I cannot say exactly—he stayed till about half-past 7 in the evening—he was at work there—I don't know whether he was working for himself or for a friend—I know he was not working for my husband—he had met with an accident on the Thursday previous, and he wore a slipper on that day—I can't recollect whether or

not he came in the slipper on the Saturday—he wore a slipper during the day, on the right foot, in fact, he wore two slippers, because he was in the habit of taking off his boots when he came to my house, and putting on his slippers—I remember seeing him with slippers on during the day—I did not see him leave that night—I was out when he left—I have here the slipper of the left foot, which I found after he was gone—the right slipper was gone—he had his boots with him during the day, two boots—whether he came in them or not on the Saturday morning I can't say—he might have had one in his pocket—the two boots were by the side when he changed them, to put on his slippers—when he left neither of those boots remained, they were both gone—he took away both boots, and one slipper—I recollect his changing his clothes that day; he had on a pair of green and black trousers when he came to my house in the morning, and he changed them for a pair of striped ones, an older pair, to sit at work in—when he went away he put on the newer pair, for the working pair was left—I saw him on the Monday morning between 10 and 11 o'clock—he then had on a pair of light trousers—he came in both boots on the Monday morning—he showed me a chain on that Monday morning—I believe this chain (No. 2) to be the same that he showed me—he said he had paid 3l. 15s. for it in the Docks that morning—he had a ring on his finger—it was a plain gold ring with a white stone—he said he had paid 7s. 6d. for that—he said he had got it at the same place that he bought the chain—my husband saw him on the Monday morning as well as myself.

Q. Did you on that Monday morning observe anything with respect to his hat? A. I observed that he had a new hat on, one that I had never seen him in before—I told him he was very extravagant in having another new hat, and he said his old one was smashed, and he had thrown it in the dust-hole—my husband asked him what he gave for it, and his reply was that he had paid 14s. 6d. for it—my husband said it looked more like a guinea hat—nothing more passed about it that I am aware of—I had not seen that hat before—I had observed before that what hat Muller wore.

Q. Before I show it you, just describe to me what kind of hat it was? A. It was a plain black beaver hat with a merino rim inside, and the lining was a striped lining, a broad brown stripe, and a broad blue stripe edged with black and white—my attention was drawn to the lining from its being a peculiar lining—I never saw a hat lined with such a lining before.

Q. How came you to notice the lining? A. As I said before, from its being a pecnliar lining—I have frequently seen him take off his hat, and I have frequently had it in my hands—he was in the habit of putting letters behind the lining—I have seen him do so—before I saw the hat in question I gave a description of it to the police—to the best of my belief this (produced) is the hat—the lining is the same, and the merino also—as far as I can judge it corresponds—I heard the prisoner say that Mr. Matthews made him a present of that hat—Matthews is a cabman—I think it must have been either in November or December of last year that the prisoner told me that—I had not noticed Muller wear any other hat except that—I saw it in the hat-box—he brought it to my house in the hat box when I first saw it—that was either in November or December; Í can't say—it was the same description of hat box as this (produced)—the hat and the hat-box were in my house at one time—he took them away with him again—he brought them to show us, and then took them away.

Q. On Saturday, 9th July, according to your recollection, what hat had Muller on? A. To the best of my belief that is the one, the old one, the

one that I have spoken to—he had a single breasted overcoat—I don't think he had that coat on on Saturday, 9th July, he had a morning-coat on—this (produced) is the light pair of trousers, and this is the old pair I spoke of that he wore on the Saturday at work—the light pair is the pair he came in on the Monday-morning—neither of these is the pair he left my house in on the Saturday-night—I have never seen that pair since.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Do I understand you to say that you actually saw him leave your house that night? A. No, I did not see him leave—the last time I saw him on the Saturday was half-past 7—a person named Haifa was with him—I left him there with him—he had a slipper on the whole of the day on Saturday when I was there—I am not able to say whether he left in the slipper or not—the slipper I have produced is the one that was left at my house on the Saturday—he must have taken the right slipper with him—whether he had it on or not I cannot say for certain, only by what I heard Haifa say—I understood he had been lame of the right foot.

Q. Was Muller rather a vain and boastful man, do you think? A. He was rather fond of finery, and fond of showing the things that he had—I cannot say whether he used to what is called romance a little—he told me that he had told Mrs. Blyth that Messrs. Hodgkinson were sending him out to New York—we of course knew different—he said that he had told Mrs. Blyth that Mr. Hodgkinson was sending him over to America—he did not tell me that he had said he was to have 150l. a year—my husband wears a hat—I could not tell you what was the lining of it—I have constantly had Muller's hat in my hand.

Q. What business had you with the hat? A. He might have put it in my way, and I might have moved it—if it was in my way I had a right in my own place to move it—I was asked just now to describe the hat before it was produced—I saw it at the police-court and before the Coroner—I had it in my hand there—I know Haffa—I have known him about twelve months or more—he has been in the habit of coming to my house, but not of working for me—he works for Mr. Hodgkinson—he does so at the present time—I have known Muller nearly two years—Huffa was constantly in the habit of coming to my place—he wore a hat—I can't tell you the lining of it—I have several male friends who come to my house—I cannot tell the lining of any of their hats.

Q. Then this is the only hat that you looked into so often? A. It was the lining that took my attention—I cannot say how many times I looked into the hat—I cannot undertake to say whether I looked into it thirty, forty, or fifty times—I cannot say whether I looked inside it each time I had it iu my hands—I will not say that I have looked into it thirty or forty times—I may have done so—I know a person named Jonathan Matthews, a cabman—my husband knows him—I have not known him so long as eight years—I should think about six—it was six years ago when I first met him.

Q. How soon after you heard of this murder did you see Matthews? A. Not until after he came from New York—I had not seen him for years, not for all three years—I did not see him before he went to New York.

Q. Were you in the habit of visiting Matthews at all, or he you? A. I think I went there about twice, not more.

Q. Did the prisoner, about a month or two months before the 9th of July, buy some new clothes, to your knowledge? A. Merely a pair of trowsers—I did not ask him about a month or two months before to lend me 5s.—

oh! yes, I did—I cannot remember his saying that he could not do it because he was going to buy a new hat—I do not swear it—I don't believe I said, "Oh! pooh, pooh, you may as well lend me the money"—I don't think I did—I cannot swear it, because I do not remember it—I cannot swear it did not pass—I don't remember his saying it—I remember asking for 5 s. and he lent it to me—I did not say that just now, because I was not asked—he did not say he could not lend it me, he gave it to me—I did not say that just now in answer to your question, because you put another question to me and I had not time; that was my reason, and no other—I don't remember his making any excuse about his going to buy a new hat, because he gave me the money—I have repaid him that;—we settled it—I believe that was the only time I borrowed money from him—I cannot swear it—I cannot swear whether I have borrowed money of him before—my husband was not by when he gave me the 5s.—he knew nothing at all about it—I do not remember Muller saying anything to me about anew hat, nor do I remember saying to him, "You can buy a new hat next week," or anything to that effect.

Q. You told me that you had not seen Mr. Matthews at all until he returned from New York; had you seen Mrs. Matthews? A. Only at the Court—she had not called on me—I saw her at the Court, and only at the Court—I am quite sure of that—I do not expect any of this reward—I cannot say whether the prisoner had the same dress on, except the trousers, on the Monday that he had on the Saturday—I could not say whether he had the velvet-collared coat or the morning coat on.

MR. SOLICITOR GENERAL . Q. Had he the same hat on on the Monday that he had on the Saturday? A. No, he had not—I cannot recollect to a week or two when it was that I asked him to lend me the 5s.—it was repaid in some settlement—I recollect his lending it me—to the best of my recollecttion he did not say anything at all about a hat on that occasion—it was after he had brought the hat in the band-box to show us—he has frequently applied to me to lend him money, and I have lent him a trifle, but he hat paid me back again—I cannot say when the last time was that I lent him a trifle—I don't recollect whether I lent him anything in the last week or fortnight before he went away—I believe I never saw a lining to a hat like this in my life, until I saw this one—I saw the lining when he took it out of the band-box—it was then bran new—I noticed the lining then and said, "What a peculiar lining"—I have seen him put letters behind the lining—I cannot say how often—I think it must have been more than once.

MR. SERJEANT PARRT. Q. Did you pledge a coat for the prisoner on the Wednesday before he left? A. Yes; I believe this is the coat.

Mr. SOLICITOR GENERAL. Q. How came you to pawn the coat for Muller? A. Because he said he had not sufficient money to pay his passage ticket—he asked me to pawn it for him—that was on the Wednesday after the Saturday (the 13th)—I did pawn it for him for 6s. at Mr. Annis's, 121, Minories—I gave the money to Muller on that same day—he came to our house on the Saturday in a pair of dark trousers with green in them, and he took them off while he was working and put on another pair—I did not see him put them on again, or see him in them afterwards before he went away—the old ones which he had worn during the day were left behind, and those that he came in in the morning were gone.

GODFREY FERDINAND REPSCH . I am the husband of the last witness—I have been acquainted with the prisoner some time—he used to come to work at my shop—he came on Saturday, 9th July—I did not see him come in—

I saw him at the time he was working there—he then had on an old pair of trousers—those were trousers which he was accustomed to work in at my shop—when he went away on the Saturday evening those trousers remained behind at my shop—I know of another pair of trousers that he had about a month or six weeks before that, a new pair with green spots, a green mixture—I cannot say when I last saw those trousers—I saw them before he left England, perhaps about a week before; I don't remember—very likely I saw them in that week—I never saw them after the murder of Mr. Briggs—I cannot say that I did not see the prisoner in that dark pair of trousers—I can't say whether I did or not—I remember his coming to my shop on the Monday—he came about 10 o'clock in the morning—he said he had got a new hat, and after that he brought out a watch and chain and said he had come from the docks and he had bought it there; a chain and ring I would say; I beg pardon—he said he bought them in the docks—he said he had bought the hat about two months ago, and he had worn it but three times, on Sundays—he took the chain and ring from his waistcoat pocket—the ring was not attached to the chain; it was on his finger, separate—he took the chain out of his waistcoat pocket—I made an observation about the value of the hat—I said it was worth a guinea—he had told me the price before, 14s 6d

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. I believe you had seen him wear the dress that he wore on the Monday, at other times; had you seen him wear the trousers and coat before, that he had on on the Monday? A. Yes, I did so—it was not I that accosted him and said, "You have got a new hat"—my wife made the first reference to it—and he said "Yes, a new hat"—when I was asked to describe what trousers he had on on the Saturday, I said that he had dark trousers, brown and grey, and all colours, very old, and there were brown stripes—that is true—that was on the Saturday—I did not see him go out—I did not ask him to come early on Monday morning—he did come between 10 and 11 o'clock—he had not been there before that I know of—I did not see him before that—I don't know that I asked him to come to Haffa early on Monday morning to help to cut out some pieces of work—I was at home on the Monday morning at 8 o'clock—Haffa was not there then—it was on Tuesday morning that I asked him to fetch some neckties for Haffa—I am sure it was not Monday morning, I did not see him in my house on Monday morning—I knew for some time that he was going to America, and I gave him leave to work up his clothes at my place for that purpose—I went on board the Victoria with him—everybody that knew him knew where he was going to—I have known Jonathan Matthews about eight years—I did not see him at all after the murder till I saw him at Hackney at the inquest—that was the first time I saw him—that was after he had given information to the police—I cannot say whether or not the prisoner wore the trousers that he had on on Saturday, during the week—I cannot say whether I had seen him wear the hat before, that I saw on the Monday—I did not see him for three or four weeks on Sundays at all; I did not see him for a month of Sundays at all.

COURT. Q. Before what day? A. Before the Saturday—he did not come to my house on Sundays.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. About two months before that, had he bought some new clothes, to your knowledge? A. Yes, I know he bought some new clothes—I used not to see him on the Sundays at all—I did not go to see him at Mrs.Blyth's; I never was there.

MR. SOLICITOR-GENERAL. Q. You say you had not seen him for three or

four Sundays before then; had you seen him on week days? A. Yes he came to my house in the week days.

Q. Had you noticed before the hat which you noticed on Monday morning? A. No, I did not take any notice, and I should not have taken any notice on the Monday, but for ray wife speaking of it—(looking at a pair of trousers) this is the pair of trousers Muller wore on the Saturday—they are the working trousers—they are the pair that I described to the Magistrate as of different colours—I don't know whether he came in those trousers, or went away in them—I did not see him come in, and I did not see him go away; I only saw him at work—I can't swear whether these trousers were left behind when he went away.

COURT. Q. I suppose it is not unusual for tailors to work in old trousers and slippers? A. It is usual to change their trousers when they come into the room, and to put on slippers.

JOHN HAFFA . I am a journeyman tailor, and work at Messrs. Hodgkinson's—I have known the prisoner about six months—on 9th July, I was at Mr. Repsch's—I saw the prisoner there that day, between 6 and 7 in the evening—I went there and found him there—I don't remember if he was at work or not—I don't think he was at that time—he left before me, between 7 and 8; nearly 8, I may say—he said he was going to see his sweetheart—I had seen him working there before—I did not notice what clothes he had on when he left; it was rather dark when he went away—I saw him again on the Monday following, at Mr. Repsch's, my own lodging, about 2 o'clock in the afternoon—I observed a chain about him on Monday—I had not seen that chain on him before—he said he had bought it—I don't know if he said where—he said he had given 3l. 15s. for it—I left him at Mr. Repsch's, and went to my work—when I came back in the evening, the prisoner was still there—we left Repsch's together—we went together to his lodging and I remained there that night—I took his lodging—I afterwards lent him 12s.

Q. How came you to do that? A. Mr. Repsch came to the place when I work, and told me Mr. Franz Muller had not sufficient money for his passage ticket, he wanted 12s.—I had not the money, and I gave Mr. Repsch a suit of my clothes to pawn to raise the money—that was on Wednesday the prisoner gave me a duplicate of a gold chain as security for my money—I have got the duplicate—it is for a chain pledged at a pawnbroker's of the name of Annis—he did not give me the ticket of a coat—he told me the last evening; as I had the lodging to pay, Mr. Repsch had a ticket for a coat, which I could have for the money that I had to pay for the rent—I afterwards got that ticket for the coat from Mr. Repsch—it is the coat that has been produced to-day—I got it out of pawn the day before Muller came back to London from America—I don't remember the day of the month—I sent it to Scotland-yard the same day I took it out, for him to put on when he came to London.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Was he working for you the week before 9th July? A. He made some things for me, not much—I don't know whether that was on the Saturday or the day before—he was not working the whole week for me—I was well aware of his going to America; he spoke of it as soon as he came to Messrs. Hodgkinson's, and he made up his mind a fortnight before he left—I knew that he was lame—I have seen him in possession of money before 9th July; gold and silver—I can't say how much, but I believe it was sufficient for the passage—I had known him for six months—he bore the character and disposition of a humane and kind

young man—I lodged with him the three last nights—I had. not lodged with him longer, not for some weeks—he slept with me once or twice.

Q. When he said that he was going to see his sweetheart, did he say that he was going to Camber well? A. No, but I understood so—he said that his sweetheart's name was Eldred—this is not the first time I have been asked these questions—I saw him go out from Mr. Repsch's on the Saturday night—it was between 7 and 8, I think it was a quarter to 8, nearly 8 o'clock—he went out with a slipper on his foot—I was aware that he was lame, and had been for two or three days—he told me that a letter-carrier's cart had hurt his foot—I recognise the slipper again (looking at the one produced)—it was a carpet slipper—it was such a slipper as that that I saw on him—that is the slipper—I believe I saw enough money on him the week before the murder to pay his passage—after that Monday, I assisted him in making up his passage-money again—he did not tell me what had become of that money; I did not ask him—I knew of his going to the docks several times, from what he said to me—he did not tell me that he had spent that money in purchasing a watch and chain at the docks; but he said he bought the chain for 3l. 15s,—I could not swear that he did not tell me that he had been down to the docks on the Monday morning; it may be that he said so, I do not remember—I did not know Mr. Deaths, the jeweller's, in Cheapside before this case came on—I do not know anything about Muller's having a gold chain repaired in November last—I did not know Muller at that time.

Q. Did you give him a chain of yours in June to have it exchanged? A. I do not know if it was in June, but he was to exchange or sell a chain for me—I gave him a chain to exchange for another chain, or to sell—he could not do it, and he returned it to me—he did not tell me whether he had been anywhere to change it.

MR. SOLICITOR-GENERAL. Q. When was this transaction about the chain; do you recollect at all? A. It may have been at the end of May, or in June—I gave him the chain, and he brought it back again, and nothing more was done—it was the week before he left that I saw him with some money—I did not count it.

JURY. Q. You have stated that on his going away on Saturday, between 7 and 8 o'clock, as he said to see his sweetheart, you are unable to describe his dress because it was dark; do not you know very well that it was not dark at that time in July, but quite light? A. In the lodging where I lived at that time it was rather dark, because it is in a court—the prisoner did not sleep with me on that Saturday night.

ROBERT DEATH . I am the brother of the gentleman who has been examined—I remember somebody coming to our shop with a chain on the morning of 11th July perfectly well—I think I should know that person—I believe the prisoner to be that person—I had never seen him before, to my recollection.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Do you think you had ever seen him before at your shop? A. I don't think I had—I have not the slightest recollection of ever having seen him—I do not remember about June a person leaving a chain with me to be exchanged (looking at chain Ro. 3)—I never saw this chain before, I am positive; it is so peculiar in its character, that I should have remembered it JURY. Q. Has it been repaired. A. It appears to have been repaired. Q. Would you have any entry in your books of the repairing of a chain like that? A. We enter the jobs to the man who does them generally,

but not always, and we could not distinguish any entry, the number of chain repaired are so many.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. I think you say it appears to have been mended? A. Yes—we have a boy in the shop—we should send a job of this kind to the jobbing jeweller's; it would be charged to us by the jeweller and we should charge the party.

Q. Do you remember at all the dress of the prisoner on the Monday? A. The coat was dark—I cannot remember the particular dress—my first impression was that his trousers were light, but I was not positive about it; it was a mere impression—we employ several jewellers; we employ one jobbing jeweller, his name is Evans, of Bartholomew-square; I think No. 14, but we often send chains, if they are repaired, to the chain-maker's.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Whoever did the particular work on the chain, would it pass through your hands first? A. Certainly, mine or my brother's—I am certain I never saw this chain before. Adjourned.

Friday, October 28th. JOHN HENRY GLASS. I am in the employment of Mr. Hodgkinson, and have been so for some time—I have known the prisoner about four years—I don't know particularly how long the prisoner Was in Mr. Hodgkinson's employment; I came to Mr. Hodgkinson after him, so that I do not know how long he had been there—on Tuesday, 12th July last, he came to me in Mr. Hodgkinson's shop about 4 o'clock in the afternoon—he offered me a gold watch—he said if I would not buy it he had not money enough to go to America—he said he had a gold chain pledged with a pawnbroker for 1l—he did not say how much he wanted me to buy the watch for—he said he would go to the pawnshop and pawn the watch and chain together, and then he supposed he should get 4l. 10s.—this is the watch—I had seen him wear ring that watch before; it was his own watch that he had been in the habit of wearing—I told him to come again the next morning; he did come about 9 o'clock next morning, and he and I went together to a pawnbroker's, named Barker; I forget the name of the street—we both went into Mr. Barker's shop and took a chain out of pawn [No. 3]—I paid 1l. to get that chain out of pawn—we then went together to Mr. Cox's, in Princes-street, Leicester-square, and there pawned the watch that he had offered me the day before, and the chain that I had just got out of pawn, for 4l.—Muller took the money, I took the ticket—this is it; it is in my name—I gave the prisoner 5s. for the ticket—I gave the pound to redeem the chain, so that I paid 11. 5s. altogether—he and I then went together in an omnibus as far as the Bank—we there parted—he said he was going to the London Docks to get a ticket to go to America.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. You say that you had known Muller for four years? A. Yes—he has been in this country daring that time—I believe he is a native of Saxe Weimar—I am not a foreman to Mr. Hodgkinson; an ordinary worker, a journeyman—during the four years that I have known the prisoner he has, as far I know, borne the character of a kindly and well-disposed man—I have had full opportunities, by associating with him, and being with him, of judging of his character for humanity and kindness; that is the character that he has borne—I do not know whether he was in the habit of pawning his watch and chain at times and exchanging them—I did not see him with money—I did not see any money in his pos session the week before 9th July—I don't know what wages he earned—I am a piece worker—I can earn 30s or 36s. a week.

HENRY SMITH . I am assistant to Mrs. Barker, a pawnbroker, of 91, Houndsditch

—on 22d June I took in a gold Albert chain—I have got the ticket—I believe I took in the chain of the prisoner—this is the chain—I advanced 1l. on it—the ticket was renewed, that is, the prisoner had a fresh ticket, on 12th July, his ticket having got damaged, and it was redeemed on 13th July, the next day, I believe, by Muller, but I did not deliver it myself.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Was it 1l. or 30s? A. 1l. ALFRED WEY. I was formerly assistant to Mrs. Barker, a pawnbroker—on 13th June I took in a watch of Muller; this is it—I advanced 21. on it—it was redeemed on 12th July, I believe by Muller.

CHARLES YOUNG . I am assistant to John Annis, pawnbroker, of 121, Minories—on 12th July last I recollect taking a pledge of a gold chain from a man—I have the ticket here—this is the chain [No. 2]—the man gave the name of "Muller," Christian name, "John"—I should not know him again—I advanced 1l. 10s. on it—he gave his address, 22, Jewry-street, Aldgate—I afterwards handed that chain to the police.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. It is very common for you to supply the Christian names for parties who come to pawn, is it not? A. Yes—"John" is the name that we mainly patronize.

JONATHAN MATTHEWS . I am a cab-driver—I know the prisoner—I had known him two years and some few weeks before 9th July last; I could not say exactly—I became acquainted with him by his working with a brother-in-law of mine—he frequently came to dine with my brother-in-law, being a stranger in the country, and by that means I came to know him—from that time I have seen him, from time to time, perhaps twice or three times in a month—he sometimes came to my house, and I have several times been to see him; I always found him at work.

Q. Do you remember anything passing between you and Muller on the subject of a hat, towards the end of last year? A. I do—I should think it must have been the latter end of November or the beginning of December, I could not say to a week—I had a new hat, he came to dine with me on the Sunday after I bought it; he saw me have it on, and said he should like one like it—he looked at the hat, and put it on his head—it was a little too small for him—he asked me what I gave for it; I told him 10s. 6d—he said he would like one like it, and I told him I would get him one if he pleased—he put it on his head, and said it was a little too tight, and I said, "If I get one a little too easy for myself it will suit you nicely"—he said, "Yes," and consequently I got one for him—I got it at the same shop, Mr. Walker's, a hat-maker's, in Crawford-street, Marylebone—the lining of that hat had a kind of resemblance of being a striped lining—I ordered it on the Friday or Saturday—I told one of the men I should want one, and I went on the Saturday evening and bought one, and my wife went with me—I took it away with me in a hat-box—it remained in my house until the Sunday week following, when Muller came for it—he took it away in the hat-box—I paid for the hat; I paid 10s. 6d. for it—Muller did not pay me again; he made me a waistcoat in return for it, which I now wear, a black waistcoat—after that I frequently saw Muller wearing that hat—about the latest time that I saw him wearing it, was, I should think, about a fortnight previous to the murder—I gave a description of that hat to the police before I saw it—I believe this (looking at it) to be the hat that I purchased for him; it corresponds exactly—before I brought it out of the shop I had it turned up a little extra at each side—after I had purchased it I said I should like it turned up the same as the one I had the week previous, consequently they it while I was there—I noticed that there was a little curl in the brim

the last time I had it in my hand, and I said to Muller, "Have you had it done up?"—he said, "No"—I said, "The hat wears uncommonly well"—the under part of the brim is merino, the same as mine—all my hats were much about the same—if I buy a hat I prefer it being merino, because of its not wearing so greasy as the nap—there is no nap on the under part of this brim—I remember seeing a box at my house, a small jeweller's box—this (produced) is the same box—it is the box that I put my foot on, on the Tuesday morning—I noticed it on the Tuesday morning—that was the Tuesday week following the murder—I subsequently saw a handbill, and gave information to the police—I took the box to the police.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. As I understand, be particular in answering me, you identify this hat by the side portion of the rim being turned up? A. Not only by that; that is one thing—I am quite sure of that—I had that done in the shop; I had the rim so turned—my hat was exactly like this, as near as they could possibly get it.

Q. Did not you say before the Magistrate that one of your means of identifying that hat was this: that three weeks prior to 9th July you saw the prisoner, and that the brim of his hat was turned up in one part of it more than another, and you told him so? A. I did so—I never mentioned before to-day that I had the two edges turned round myself, at my own request, at the shop where the hat was bought—I said, before the Coroner, "I saw him frequently wearing that hat, and I had noticed and remarked upon its wearing so well; I fancied one side was turned up more than usual, and pointed it out to him; I said it was not altered in shape, and I suggested that it might have been done from his lifting it from his head on that side"—I cannot tell you how many hats I have bought—I could not tell you the number that I bought within six or twelvemonths of 9th July—I could not say what has become of the hat that I bought, which was just like this, but I think I left it at one of the hatter's shops that I have bought hats at since the one I bought at Mr. Walker's—the hat I now wear I bought in Oxford-street, at Mr. Mummery's—I did not leave my other hat there.

Q. Have you not stated that you left it at Mr. Down's the hatters in Longacre, three weeks before 9th July? A. I stated that I left one there, but I could not say to the time—I did not say so—I believe it was some time, bat I could not state the time positively—I said, "I purchased a hat also at Mr. Down's in Long-acre, and left my old one there; that was about three weeks before I bought the one in Oxford-street; I wore my old hat home when I purchased the new one in Oxford-street"—I bought the one in Oxford-street, I should think it was, I could not say for a few days, before I went to America.

Q. When did you buy the one at Down's? A. Well, I have had two hats; when I came to look at home, and I could not say which of the Down's I bought it at, whether it was the one in the Strand, who used to make for me, or the one in Long-acre, but I find I am in error about my hats altogether; I have had so many that I could not say how many.

Q. Did you not say this, "The next hat I purchased was about June, of Down's in Long-acre; it was a cheap one, I gave 5s. 6d. for it I left the other one at Down's?" A. I did say so; that was not true, because it was longer ago—I could not say the time exactly.

COURT. Q. You say you bought a hat a few days before you went to America; when did you go to America? A. I cannot tell at this moment—I left home on 19th July, and sailed on 20th from Liverpool—I went with Mr. Tanner—I mean when I went to America on this matter.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. I want particularly to call your attention to what you said before the Coroner, "The next hat I purchased was about June, of Down in Long-acre; it was a cheap one, I gave 5s. 6d for it. I left the other one at Down's;" did you say that before the Coroner? A. I said so, but it was a mistake of mine; I did not know bow many hats I had had till I got home—I found I had several there.

Q. Have you since found out that three weeks before you were examined before the Coroner there was no such shop as Down's a hatter in Long-acre? A. I did make that inquiry, and then I looked at home to see what number of hats I had had—I found that Down's shop in Long-acre had been shut up for some time—when I came to look at my hats I was surprised to see that I had so many at home as I had; that made me make inquiry—I had two of Down's hats before—I said before the Magistrate, that I had bought that at Down's a fortnight or three weeks before this job—I found out that was a mistake of mine—Mr. Clark went with me to Long-acre—he is one of the detectives; the sergeant who went to America with me—I told him at the time that I was under a mistake.

Q. Where do you believe the hat is now that was just like this; have you any idea whatever? A. No, I have not—I occasionally throw my hats into the dusthole or some place—I said that before the Coroner—I could not swear to the lining of any of my hats—I could not swear to some of my own hate—I first heard of the murder about the Thursday or Friday of the week following—I think it was the Thursday; that would be about six or seven days after—I mean to say that I had not heard of it before—I had been out with my cab—I have occasionally put on the rank when I wanted something to eat, but I never heard of it—I am not a public-house visitor—I may have been to a public-house perhaps once a. day, to have a glass of ale, not more—I do go into public-houses for refreshment every day—I sometimes take in a newspaper, not regularly—I don't take in any particular paper; occasionally I take Lloyd's—I take a Sunday paper; sometimes I buy a daily paper.

Q. Will you swear that you saw no paper from 9th to 14th July? A. Not bringing the murder to my mind—I never looked at the paper—I did not see it in the paper at all—I did not see it in large conspicuous letters, over and over again, before the Thursday—I live at 68, Earl-street East, Paddington—I know the police-station—I pass it—I could not swear whether I passed it every day from 10th to 14th—I never saw the placard or noticed it—I did see a placard at the latter end of the week, but not to read it—I knew that Muller was going to America—I gave information to the police on Monday, 18th—at that time I knew that Muller had gone by the Victoria sailing ship to New York—I knew that he was going to sail, according to what he had left word at my house—he called to wish me and my family good-bye. Q. Can you tell me what you were doing on Saturday, 9th July? A. I was out with my cab, I find—I did not know at the time I was called upon to answer before—I said before the Coroner, "It is impossible for me to say where I was on the night of 9th July, I was about with my cab, but I could not say where"—I have since made inquiries to find out where I was—I made inquiries to know whether I was out with my cab or not, on account of losing a pocket-book which I carried, which I have found since, and it is here—I took a piece of paper out of my pocket just now—here it is; you are at liberty to look at it—it is to prove that I was out—Mr. Beard wrote down after my character—this piece of paper is dated September 29th—that is the date I wrote to know what day I was out, and that is the return

letter from my employer, Mr. Perfitt, that I was at work for on the 9th—that inquiry has been made by me since I was examined before the Coroner.

Q. I believe that your master, Mr. Perfitt, failed, or was "sold up," to use your own expression? A. He was sold off; that is a mistake, "sold up"—it was a mistake in print—I never said, "sold up," I said, "sold off."

Q. Here it is, "Mr. Perfitt lived in Lisson-grove, and was sold up the week after 9th July," you say you said "sold off?" A. Yes, I did—the deposition was read over to me—I could not tell what day it was that Mr. Perfitt was sold off—I first saw Repsch after I had given information, at Bow-street, when I returned from America—I did not see him before I gave information to the police—I am quite sure of that; not for years previous.

Q. How long have you been a cabman? A. I have been licensed between times I suppose about seven or eight years, or eight or nine years; I could not say to a year or two—sometimes I do not hold a license for three or four years between—I have been something else besides a cabman; I have been a coachman, and I have been in training stables—that was, I suppose, twenty-two or twenty-three years ago—since then I have been a cabman—not ever since—sometimes I have been in business—I was in a small fly business, and I was foreman to Mr. Hubble of Camberwell, and to Mr. Langley of Westminster—I have driven for the London General Omnibus Company—I have always been a driver during those twenty-two or twenty-three years—I have never followed any other occupation—I have been an ostler—I have never been coachman to a private gentleman—I know a gentleman named Linklater—I was not his coachman or anything—I never lived with him—I never drove for him—I was not in his service—I knew him by living in the neighbourhood—I have never been insolvent or a bankrupt—I am sure of that; there is no mistake—I was in business at Brixton—I did not fail there; that I swear—I was in business at the Prince of Wales-yard, and at the White Horse-yard, Brixton-hill—that was two years ago last January—I did not fail, or compound with my creditors, nothing of the kind—I gave up the business because I was not getting a living—I owed some money, and I was not able to pay it—I am still in that position.

Q. Have you been to some of your creditors, and stated that as soon as you got your portion of the reward you would be able to settle with them? A. No; I have not been to one of them—I will swear that—I will swear that I have never said that.

Q. Of course you expect a portion of the reward? A. I don't understand you.

Q. Then you are the only person in Court who does not. Do you or do you not expect a portion of this reward of 300l.? A. I leave that entirely if I have done my duty to the country.

Q. Then you do expect a portion of it, do you not, after you have done your duty? A. If they are only satisfied that I have done my duty; if they think proper to reward me, very well—I have no expectation of anything—if it had been a plain bill without any reward, I should have done my duty—I did see the reward, but if it had been a plain bill I should have done the same.

Q. I will have an answer; do you expect a portion of the reward? A. If I am entitled to it, I shall expect it—I have never made use of the words that if I had kept my mouth closed a little longer, they would have made the reward 500l. instead of 300l., nor anything like it—I said I was given to

understand on that morning that they were printing bills for 500l, but had it been a shilling I should have done the same if I had thought of it.

Q. You were once convicted, I think, of a little petty theft, were you not? No theft; it was for absconding, leaving a situation without giving due notice; I swear that—I was conductor of a coach, like most young men at that time, I made a little free, and got out on what we term a spree—I merely went away and left the coach without any one to start it—I was convicted of that; the result was that I had twenty-one days, because I could not pay anything—I have been at Norwich—I was not at Norwich in the year 1851—I was there in 1850, not in 1851—I was in prison there for the twenty-one days; nothing else—I cannot tell you the gentleman's name that convicted me for the twenty-one days—I was tried before a jury—it was for a spree—my box was sent home, and they wanted to make a theft of it because I had got a book and a pair of spurs—they did not actually make a theft of it.

Q. Were you not convicted of having feloniously stolen, taken, and carried away one posting book, of the value of 8s., one pair of spurs, of the value of 2s., and one padlock, of the value of 6d. was not that the matter you were convicted of? A. That was the matter they brought in, because it was in a box, unbeknown to me—it was found on me after the box was taken away—I did not know they were there.

Q. The lining of your hat, you say, was the same as the lining of this hat? A. Similar; I could not say exactly; the same, or similar; I could not say—I said that the lining of both hats was alike as near as possible—I could not say to a stroke or so in the colour of them.

MR. SOLICITOR-GENERAL. Q. You say you were sentenced to be imprisoned for twenty-one days? A. Yes, that was in 1850, fourteen years ago—I suppose I was then about nineteen or twenty years of age, I am now thirty-seven, or between thirty-seven and thirty-eight—I was horn in 1829—I have never been in any trouble of the kind since—I gave information to the police on Monday, the 18th.

Q. Just explain how you came to give that information. A. As I was coming by the Great Western Hotel, I called to give my horse some water—while my horse was drinking, I ran the bill over, and I spoke to the waterman, and made some inquiries as to the height I was myself—from the description on the bills, I asked the waterman what height he thought I was—the hand-bill was on the wall, and I then read it—on reading the hand-bill, I spoke to the waterman, and directly went home and fetched a small box—this is the box (the one produced)—I remembered my wife telling me that Muller came to my house and gave the girl a little box—I did not know that Death was the name of the jeweller until I asked the waterman—it was in consequence of some conversation with the waterman that I found out that Death was the name of the jeweller—I took the box to the waterman and showed it to him, and he got in the cab, and I drove him to Hermitage police-station, Paddington—we both went to the station together—we there saw Sergeant Steers—I gave the box to him, and took him to get a small strip of paper that was left at my house by Miller, with an address on it, written by Miller—I also gave a description of the hat on that occasion—this is the piece of paper (produced)—it is Muller's address at Mrs. Blythe's—I subsequently went with the police to America, on the subject of Muller's extradition—I was examined before the Coroner when I came back—I arrived on the Saturday, and I think I was examined before the Coroner on the Tuesday following—I was examined before the Magistrate on the

Monday, and on Tuesday before the Coroner—I was cross-examined at that time as to where I had been on the Saturday of the murder—I had not at that time prepared myself at all to answer those questions—on being asked before the Coroner, I did not recollect precisely where I was that night, not until I got home and I made inquiries of the waterman—I had some little idea of it, but not until I got home—I then wrote a letter to my employer, the answer to which I have produced here to-day—from the subsequent in. quires I made, and the communications I have received from my employer and others, I am enabled to state where I was that night; I was on the rank at the Great Western station from 7 to about 11, and, not having a fare for that time, I went away home, and bought a joint of meat, and took it home, as I usually did—I went to the stable-yard in Lisson-grove and left the cab, and then went direct home with my joint of meat—it was not a leg of mutton, it was an aitch-bone of beef, if you wish to know—I took it home with me for my Sunday dinner—I was cross-examined a good deal about my hats—I had not at all prepared myself to answer questions about my hats, I never gave it a thought—I should think I have upwards of nine or ten hats during the year—I am exposed to a great deal of rough weather—I never wear a weather hat—I was asked questions about my hat which was not prepared to answer—I subsequently made inquiries on the subject, and what I have stated to-day is correct, as near as I can possibly give it—I stated before the Coroner that one brim of Muller's hat was more turned up than the other—that was the fact, there was a slight curl more than usual—both brims were turned up by the hatter—in addition to that, one brim was more turned up than the other—it was the right hand brim as he stood from me that was a trifle more turned up than the other—that brim was stiffish, but rather limper than the other—I called Muller's attention to it and said I thought he had had it done up by its looking so well, I thought he had had it turned a little more. (The witness depositions before the Magistrate and the Coroner were put in and read) ELIZA MATTHEWS. I am the wife of Jonathan Matthews—I was acquainted with the prisoner rather better than two years—he has been in the habit of occasionally coming to our house—I was present when my husband bought a hat—that might be in November or December last year, I can't recollect exactly which month—my husband bought it at Walker's, in Crayford-street.

Q. Have you any recollection of the description of hat it was? A. No, not particularly; only it was turned up rather more at the side than my husband's was—I have seen the bat—this (looking a it) looks the very same hat—I had not noticed any part of the hat except the brim—my husband gave that hat to Muller about a fortnight after—on Monday, the 11th July, the prisoner called to see me in the afternoon—I have four children—he came between 2 and 3 o'clock—he said he had come to wish us good-bye, previous to his going to New York—he remained with me about three or four hours—he told me he was going out for Messrs. Hodgkinson's firm, and he was to get 150l. a year—he said that he had met with an accident on the Thursday, I think a letter cart or a mail cart had run over his foot on London-bridge—during the time he was there, he shewed me a chain—he took it off the button-hole of his waistcoat and put it into my hand—told him I thought it was not a very good one—it looked so pale, much lighter gold than his own watch and chain—I did not make that observation to him, I thought so myself—this (looking at chain No. 2) is the character of chain—I believe that to be the chain—I saw a box on that occasion—this is it

(produced)—he took that out of his pocket, and presented it to my little girl—she is ten years old, she will be eleven in December—I remember my husband afterwards coming home and getting that box—it was that day week after—the child had been playing with it that same evening, it was then put away in a drawer from the Tuesday evening—it was taken out of the drawer a week afterwards—I also noticed a ring that Muller had on—I looked at it, and he told me his father had sent it from Germany—it was a plain gold ring, with a cornelian head and a white face—when he left be wished me good-bye—he said he should call on Tuesday or Wednesday morning to see my husband, to wish him good-bye.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. When he said that Mr. Hodgkinson was going to send him to New York as an agent, and give him 150l. a year, did he not say at the same time that he should like to receive the payment half-yearly? A. He did so—my husband first saw this box on Tuesday morning, it was lying on the table—I did not notice the name of Mr. Death upon it—the prisoner did not say anything to me about Mr. Death's—I am certain he did not—yes; I had forgotten; I remarked that Mr. Death's was a good jeweller's shop—I forgot for the moment—I don't know Mr. Death's—I never saw the shop to notice it—I made that remark about its being a good jeweller's shop, because I should suppose so from where lie lived, from the shop being in Cheapside—the prisoner had on dark trousers on the Monday—he was there from three to four hours—as he was going away, I remarked to him that the hat had worn very well—as he was taking it off the drawers, I said, "How well that hat has worn"—the reply he made was, "It is a different hat"—I heard of the murder on the Monday evening, 11th July, from a lodger—I was told it was a shocking murder in a railway carriage—my husband might have had a penny paper, I did not—my husband was sometimes in the habit of doing so—sometimes he used to leave them, and sometimes I used to take them out of his pocket—I always took a weekly paper on Sunday morning—I did not have one on Sunday the 10th—I might have had one, I don't remember—I had one the following Sunday.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. When did you make the observation on the subject of Mr. Death's being a good jeweller's? A. At the same time while the prisoner was talking to me, while he was showing me the chain—I had no conversation with my husband about the murder.

Q. What number of hours is your husband out generally during the twenty-four hours? A. He leaves home about 9 in the morning, and sometimes I don't see him till the next morning—by that time I have been hours in bed.

JURY to MRS. REPSCH. Q. On what day of the week did Muller bring the new hat in the hat-box? A. Well, that I can't say: it might have been Sunday, it might have been another day—I cannot exactly remember whether it was Sunday or a week day—most likely it was Sunday, but I can't say for certain.

COURT to MR. REPSOH. Q. YOU were asked yesterday about seeing the prisoner occasionally; do you recollect what you said about seeing him on week-days or Sundays? A. I saw him on week-days—I did not see him on Sundays for three or four Sundays at all, only on week-days.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Did you generally see him on Sundays? A. No, I did not.

JOSEPH HENNAQUART . I am foreman in the establishment of Messrs. Hodgkinson—the prisoner was in their service for six weeks before the 9th

of July—he was originally engaged at 25s. a week—I think he worked at 25 s a week very nearly a month—an alteration was then made as to the mode in which he was to be paid, because for very nearly two weeks he did not finish his work, and I told him to work at piecework, and that was what he did—he worked at piecework two weeks—he did not go back to the 25 s a week—I offered him to do so—I think he said he could make more at piece-work, and he refused, and discharged himself a week before the murder—that was on Saturday, 2nd July—he was not engaged to go to America for my employers.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. How long was he in your employment? A. Six weeks—he was always very polite to me—he was not quarrel—some or ill-tempered—we had a few words before he left, that was all—he left, saying he could do better at piecework than at 25s. a week.

EDWARD WATSON . I was foreman in the employment of Mr. Walker, a hatter, of 49, Crawford-street—I left him last April—I had been in his employment about four years before that—I have seen this hat before (looking at the one found in the carriage)—it is one of Mr. Walker's manufacture—the lining of this hat is not a lining that Mr. Walker used for all his hats—it was not appropriated to any particular class of hats—it is not a lining that I have seen used by any other hatter—it was not used during the whole of the time I was with Mr. Walker, part of the time—the price of this hat was about 8s. 6d. I should think—I can't say exactly the price at which it was sold, from the present state of the hat—we have another price besides 8s. 6d., different prices—this was about 8s. 6d.—we do not keep any record of hats which we sell over the counter, unless they are sent home.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Did you say that the lining of that hat was peculiar to Mr. Walker's establishment? A. It is a peculiar lining—I can't say exactly how many hats Mr. Walker manufactures in the course of a year; five or six dozen a week, perhaps—they are not all lined in that way; some of them are.

Q. How many hats with that lining do you think Mr. Walker sells in a week? A. I don't think we have ever had above three or four of that particular pattern lining in the establishment—we do not buy a large quantity of lining—we buy the linings all ready cut—they are not cut out at our workshop.

COURT. Q. Did you say you did not make above three or four hats with that lining? A. This lining was one of a quantity of samples that Mr. Walker bought, and there was not, perhaps, more than one or two of the same pattern in the lot; not more than three or four, perhaps.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. You say it was a sample piece? A. A sample lining—I can't say where they were bought, Mr. Walker can tell you—this was a sample lining which he kept—he did not buy any of the bulk—they were all samples, and there were about three or four of that particular pattern lining in the lot that he bought.

THOMAS HENRY WALKER . I am a hatter, carrying on business in Crawford-street, Marylebone—this hat-box is one of ours, and this hat is one of ours—it was a hat sold in my shop—the lining is a peculiar lining—I don't think we had more than, perhaps, one or two of them—I don't think we had more than one, we might have had two of that kind: two linings like that Q. Do I understand you to say that you had not more than one or two hats lined in that way? A. Certainly—it is one of about 500 linings that I bought, all French samples, and there was scarcely one alike—there might have been two of a sort, but I do not think there was—I don't think there

would be two alike—they were all samples, and generally samples distinct from each other—this is a French lining—the price of this hat would be 8s 6d. or 10s. 6d—I really cannot tell now.

WILLIAM NINNIS TIDDEY . I am superintendent of the D division of the Metropolitan Police—I have produced the small box with Mr. Death's name upon it, and the hat-box that I obtained from Mrs. Blythe; also the slipper that was handed to me; one slipper only, the right slipper.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. That is the slipper you received from Mrs. Blythe? A. Yes.

JAMES GIFFORD . I am agent to Messrs. Grinnell and Co. shipowners—they have an office at the North Quay, London Docks—we open that office about 9 o'clock in the morning—I recognise the prisoner—I first saw him on Wednesday morning, 13th July, about 11 o'clock—he spoke to me, and asked about a passage to New York—he asked me the fare—I told him 4l.—he asked when the ship sailed—I said "To-morrow"—that would be Thursday, the 14th—he then went away—he came back about 2 o'clock the same afternoon and said, I have come to pay my fare"—he paid me 4l, and I gave him a contract ticket—he then left—he came back again about half-past three to the best of my belief—he came into the office with three parcels—two were small ones—one was a large one done up in canvas—that was about eighteen inches long and nine inches wide—I cannot tell at all what was the appearance of it—I could not see the angles of any hard substance outside the canvas—I could not tell what Sort of a thing was inside—I told him I could not take charge of the things, he would have to leave them with the foreman of the docks, under the shed—he took them with him out of the office—I did not see his trunk at all—I could not tell what the two small parcels were—the only one I took notice of was the larger one, which he called my attention to as he put it down—the outside of it was canvas—such canvas as I have seen inside the lining of sacks—I saw him on board the Victoria—she sailed on the Friday morning about half-past 6, or from that to 7 o'clock, with the prisoner on board.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Whatever this parcel was if you would have taken it he would have left it with you? A. He would if I had taken charge of it; he asked me to do so—if he had left it in my keeping I should have left the office at 5, and it would have been there till next morning when I came at 9—it would have been in the office all night, and I should have had it in my possession next morning—I had no suspicion at all at the time—it is the custom of poor German emigrants to carry with them little packages of bacon, soap, and so on—the little packages might have been such packages—besides myself there is a German porter, Jacob Weist.

Q. Is he there in the morning before you? A. He cannot get into the office before I open it—he very seldom comes there before me—in my absence he answers inquiries—numbers of persons are constantly coming to the docks and are constantly about—I think the Victoria carried out four or five German passengers—I cannot recollect more—the dock opens in the summer at 6 o'clock—9 o'clock is my time—sometimes I am a little later, but very little—the prisoner gave his right name, Franz Müller—I have not got a contract ticket with me—it is filled up with the name of the vessel, the tonnage, date of sailing, and the passenger's name and age—the prisoner gave his name and age, "Franz Müller, 24 years of age."

MR. GIFFARD. Q. In the course of business, what time would Weist attend at the office? A. About 9 or a little after—he does not belong to our office—he is with Mr. White, a provision merchant—if application were made to Weist about a passage in the Victoria he would answer it, but he would keep the passenger there till I came.

JACOB WEIST . I am in the employment of Mr. White—I attend at the London Docks—I have seen the prisoner on several occasions—I cannot say exactly to a day when I first saw him, but it was some days previous to hi paying his passage.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRT. Q. He paid his passage on the Wednesday, did he not? A. Yes—I am not quite positive, but I have some idea of seeing him there on the Monday—Germans sometimes come to me to ask questions—I am a German.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. What time did you get to the office on Monday? A. About 9 o'clock.

GEORGE CLARKE. I am a sergeant of the detective police—on 24th last August I went on board the ship Victoria at New York—Mr. Tierman, an officer of the New York police, was in company with me—the prisoner was on board—he was called to the after part of the ship by the captain—I seized hold of him by his arms—he said, "What is the matter?"—Tierman said, "You are charged with the murder of Mr. Briggs"—I found that Tierman did not recollect the particulars, and I followed by saying, "Yes, on the North London Railway, between Hackney Wick and Bow, on 9th July"—the prisoner said, "I never was on the line"—I do not know whether he said, that night," or whether he said, "I never was on the line"—I told him my name, and that I was a policeman from London, and pointing to Mr. Tierman that he was a policeman of New York—I then took him down stairs into the saloon—Tierman searched him in my presence—a key was taken from his waistcoat pocket—I have it here—I took possession of it and said, "What is this the key of?"—he said, "The key of my box"—I said, "Where is your box?"—he said, "In my berth"—in consequence of what the captain told me, I went to No. 9 berth and found a large black box which I brought into the saloon where the prisoner was standing—he said, "That is my box"—I unlocked it with this key that I had taken from his waistcoat pocket, and in a corner of the box I found this watch (produced)—it was then sewn up in a piece of leather—I have the piece in which it was sewn up—I said to the prisoner, "What is this?" believing it to be a watch as I felt it in my hand—he said, "It is my watch"—I then took up the hat that was standing in the box, and said, "Is this your hat?"—he said, "Yes"—it is the hat produced—I said, "How long have you possessed them?—he said, "I have had the watch about two years, and the hat about twelve months"—I told him he would have to remain in custody and be taken to New York—I kept him on board all night—Inspector Tanner came in the morning, and I then gave him over to him.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. It was in answer to your questions that he said this; you asked him how long he had had the watch and hat? A. Yes; he answered the questions I put to him very readily indeed, without the slightest hesitation.

Q. When you described to him the name of the gentleman who was murdered on the railway, and the date, did he not say, "I know nothing about it; I never was on the line"? A. My impression is that what he

aid was, "I never was on the line"—whether he said, "That night," or not, I don't know—he did not say, "I know nothing about it;" I believe he did not—(looking at his deposition)—I have no doubt that what is in the deposition, I spoke—I find here that I did say, "The prisoner remarked in reply to me, 'I know nothing about it; I never was on the line'"—seeing it here, I must have said it—my deposition was read over to me—I think I should have detected any word I had not said—the deposition was taken directly I returned—I have no doubt I did say it, and if I did, I am quite certain the prisoner said it—I searched his box.

Q. There were no new shirts, I think? A. I find that was a mistake of nine—I said they were not new, because they were dirty, but on examining them after my deposition was taken, I found they were pretty much new—I took them to be old, because they were dirty, but after they were washed and cleaned I found that they had not been worn much—they were not absolutely new—I should think they had been worn once or twice, probably not more than once, but for a long time, if only once.

RICHARD TANNER . I am one of the inspectors of the detective-police of London—I was employed in this matter by Sir Richard Mayne—I went to America, accompanied by Sergeant Clarke—I also took with me Mr. Death and Matthews—I found Müller on board the ship that he sailed in, the Victoria—when I saw him first Mr. Death was not with me—I had left him on deck—I went below, and found Müller below—I placed him amongst several other persons before Mr. Death saw him—there were eight others—Mr. Death then came down—he pointed him out—I said to Müller, "Have you stated that you have lost a ring on board this ship?"—he said, "Yes-; I have not lost it, it must have been stolen from me"—I said, "Tell me what sort of a ring it is, and I will endeavour to have—it found"—he said, "It is a gold ring, with a stone in it"—I said, "A red-stone")—he said, "No; a white stone"—I said, "A gold ring then, with a plain white stone?"—he said, "It is a gold ring with a white stone, and has got a head on it; I bought it in Cheapside, and gave seven shillings and sixpence for it"—the ring was not found—I took possession of the effects of the prisoner—I showed them to him on board the ship on taking possession of them—he saw all that I had—he said that was the whole of his property, with the exception of the ring; the box contained the whole of his property with the exception of the ring—all the things were in the box—I found no other parcel that he had—he did not speak of any other parcel—I showed him all the things that were in the box, and he said those were all his things, except the ring—I had told him he would have to go home as a prisoner, so he had better tell me what he had, that we might take it all home before we went off the ship—I have the box here—it is a very large one (produced)—this is the box—all the things are in it now, which were in it then—the hat was in it—the blue hat-box was not in it, nor the white one—these are the trousers he had on—there was only this one other pair—these are the two pair that were produced yesterday, and that were spoken to by Mrs. Repsch, the dark pair, as his working trousers—these two pairs of trousers were found, and no others—there was very little other clothing—one or two shirts, some collars, and a few of his working things, his shears, which he would require in his trade, his measure, a few scarfs, a few brushes, and an umbrella—these are tailor's scissors, I think they are called shears—there was also a towel or two, a comb and brush, a pair of gloves, and a handkerchief—there was no coat in the box, or waistcoat—he had no coat except the

one he had on—he has that on now—he had no overcoat—I did not discover any parcel sewn up, such as has been described.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. I believe he answered the questions most readily that you put to him? A. Yes; I had heard before I saw him that the ring was lost; Sergeant Clarke reported it—I knew from Mr. Death that it was a ring with a white stone, and a head on it—the prisoner said that he did not take it out of his pocket, but he believed it was stolen from him, and, in fact, that he had a suspicion of the man who stole it—I asked him what sort of a ring it was, and he answered that it was a gold ring with a stone in it—I said, "A red stone?"—he said, "No; a white one"—I think I then said, "Then I am to understand it is a gold ring, with a plain white stone, or a plain gold ring, with a white stone?"—he said, "No, it has got a head upon it;" and that he bought it in Cheap-side, and gave seven shillings and sixpence for it—I did not hear him say while he was in New York, that he purchased the watch and chain on Monday morning at the Docks, but it was suggested by his counsel in New York, before Commissioner Newton—that was after he had an opportunity of seeing his legal advisers—some German gentlemen assisted the prisoner in New York, the same as some German gentlemen are assisting him now—I found eleven shillings on him—he was thoroughly searched, so that I could not have missed any, or made any mistake—I did not ask him how he became possessed of that money—he did not offer or give any explanation to me at all, I am quite sure—I repeatedly saw him, but I have certainly no recollection of his giving any account to me of it—he said nothing to me about having sold any clothes during the voyage—I think he said to Clarke, that some exchange was made about a waistcoat, but that is not within my knowledge.

Q. Have the clothes he had on been analyzed to see if there was any blood on them? A. Not to my knowledge, but they were closely examined.

MR. SERJEANT PARKY to GEORGE CLARKE. Q. Did the prisoner say anything to you about selling any of his clothes, or exchanging them? A. A waistcoat—I do not remember his words—he did not say that he had sold a waistcoat, but that he had exchanged it away for a little leather reticule—he also said, "I exchanged again, and got the waistcoat back again"—that was the waistcoat he wore then.

MR. SOLICITOR-GENERAL. Q. Had he a waistcoat on when he was first taken? A. He had, but not the waistcoat I am speaking of—he had on a very old waistcoat—he said that he had exchanged the other waistcoat for reticule—I got that waistcoat, and he wore it home—I do not remember his saying anything else about his clothes.

THOMAS JAMES BRIGGS . I am the second son of the deceased—the last time I saw my father before 9th July was on Thursday—I was called about 2 o'clock on Sunday morning, and then went to see him at the Mitford Castle—he was still living, but was insensible—his clothes had not been removed from him—he was covered with a blanket, and his clothes were open at the neck—this (produced) is the watch which my father was in the habit of wearing—he has not worn it many years, because it belonged to a brother-in-law—I knew it for many years before my father had it, when it was worn by his brother-in-law—I recognize this chain and seals (produced) as those which my father wore—my father had been in the habit of purchasing his hats of Mr. Digance, of 18, Royal Exchange, for many years—I saw this hat at Bow-street, and recognized it as my father's—I did not know it at first, because it is much shorter in the height than those he usually wore—this

stick, found in the carriage, was my father's, and this black bag is my youngest, brother's.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJANT PARRY. Q. Do you know a gentleman named Thomas Lee, who lives in King Edward's-road? A. I do not, or rather I did not until this Occurrence—I saw my father only a few days before his death.

Q. Mr. Thomas Lee, the son of Mr. Lee the coal merchant? A. I never knew him—I live about two miles—from where my father lived—I passed his house every day nearly—I know that Mr. Thomas Lee was examined before the Coroner.

SAMUEL TIDMARSH . I am a watchmaker, and have known the late Mr. Briggs seven or eight years—I have repaired a watch for him once or twice—it is the practice in my trade to take the number in a book when we repair a watch—I know this to be Mr. Briggs' watch—I have repaired it twice for him—the last time was on 6th February, 1863—its value at the present time is, I think, about 10l. or 12l.—I should hardly give so much for it—if a man was pressed to sell it I do not think it would fetch more than 7l.—I should say that it might have been sold originally for 25l, or it might have been 30l.—it is an old-fashioned gold watch.

DANIEL DIGANCE . I am a hatter, and carry on business at 18, Royal Exchange—Mr. Briggs has been a customer of mine for at least twenty-five or thirty years—every hat he has had, has been made to order—by referring to my books, I can say that I made a hat to Mr. Briggs's order, in September 1863, but according to the particulars in this book, this hat does not correspond—it is lower in the crown, but it corresponds in the shape of the crown—we call it a bell-crowned hat—Mr. Briggs ordered a bell-crowned hat—this is lower in the crown than the hat Mr. Briggs ordered—it has been cut down—Mr. Briggs's hat was a little too easy in the head, and I placed a small piece of tissue-paper round—that tissue-paper is not here, but here are fragments of it remaining at the band of the hat—the tissue-paper would be inside the lining—the hat has been cut down, I should say, from an inch to an inch and a half, and the bottom part of the leather has been cut off; the leather lining has been reduced also—the piece has been removed from here, and brought over the band and stitched together, and the silk has been pasted down to hide the stitching.

JURY. Q. Would that make the hat a size smaller? A. No; it would make the hat a size smaller if the outside was brought inside, but that is not the case here.

MR. SOLICITOR GENERAL . Q. You say this hat has been cut down, has it been done in the way that a hatter would have cut it down in the course of his business? A. Certainly not—it is an operation I have never seen—Mr. Thorn will follow me; he will tell you how a hatter would cut it down—if a hatter had to do it, he would secure it with gum, and put it on the block, and press it down with the hot iron—that process has certainly not been used here—it has been sewn, and the silk pasted down, which is certainly not the way a hatter would do it—not having seen anything of the kind before, I should say that it was neatly sewn, and I, should think it was done by a person who understood sewing—with the exception of the cutting down, there is no question about the hat corresponding with the one I made for Mr. Briggs—when a hat is made to order, the customer's name is generally written on the band in the body of the hat; I mean on the band inside the lining—that is the part which has been taken away.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PAURY. Q. I notice here "Francis Miller, 22, Jewry-street; "do you know anything of that? A. No: I see it—

it is not an unusual thing at all to put tissue paper to customers' hats—if they are too large, we put a little tissue paper in, and sometimes leather—my trade in Cornhill is of a first-class; it is not second-hand—I know nothing of the trade in second-hand hats—ray hats may get into the second-hand trade; servants sell their master's hats very frequently indeed (several old hats were here produced)—I believe these to be my hats; they are old affairs I should think.

COURT. Q. Are they all of your manufacture? A. They are; but they are very old, some of them are five or six years old—Mr. Briggs generally had a hat every year—he was a very careful wearer.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Look at that hat? (Another) A. Yes, that is a hat I have sold—this other is also mine—here is a name at the side of it—it is my make; here is my chalk mark in it—there is also a name in this (another)—this was also made to order—Mr. Briggs generally had one hat a year, and he used to have his hat lined very frequently—he was a very careful wearer.

MR. SOLICITOR-GENERAL. Q. You have been shown various hats; are they hats of the best quality? A. There are two or three of them of a second quality—this hat is of the best quality; the price was one guinea—putting aside the price of it, I cannot judge whether it is an old one-or not—none of these produced have been cut down.

JURY. Q. Can you say how much of the entire lining has been cut away? A. I cannot; but I should say about half an inch—I did have a slip of leather on my desk this morning, but came away without it—all the hats made to order generally have the name on the band; marked on the leather—if it has been on this leather, it has been cut away.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. I believe, you have said this: "I will not swear that the bat produced is the one I supplied Mr. Briggs with: if the piece which has been cut off had been now on it, it would have enabled me to speak positively"? A. Just so.

FREDERICK WILLIAM THORN . I am a hat manufacturer—I manufacture for the trade—I make hats for Mr. Digance.

Q. Will you take that hat into your hand, and look at it; do you recognise it? A. I do—it is my manufacture, and my handwriting is in it—this is it—the two letters, "D. D."—there is nothing about the hat that enables me to say when it was made—it has been altered since I made it—a piece has been cut from the band of the hat; removed entirely—I could not say for whom that hat was made—if a hat is made to order, it is my practice to put in it the name of the gentleman for whom it is intended—it is generally put on the band of the hat; but I won't say invariably; I have sometimes marked them higher up—as a general rule, two, three, or four years back, I marked them higher up the crown; but for the last two or three years, I marked them in the band—I won't say I never deviate from that, but that is the practice—it is done for our own convenience in the course of manufacture.

Q. How much of that hat has been out away? A. From an inch to in inch and a quarter—that would include the name, supposing the name had been in it—it would most likely be on that part—I know by the mark that I made this hat for Mr. Digance—I have known of hats being cut down, but not in that manner—we should unite them together with gum, and the use of the iron—the silk of this hat, as I observed when I was examined before, has been turned back for the purpose of sewing it together, and it has been fastened down again with paste, which we should never think of using—it

has been sewn neatly together; neatly to the eye, but it is not out truthfully—the lining has been cut also; that is evident—there is a little piece cut off.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Do you know that your hats are sometimes sold in the second-hand trade? A. I am not aware of it—mine are first-class hats—I mark all the hats I make for Mr. Digance—I have a different mark for other customers—all the hats I make for Mr. Digance I mark in that way, unless they are hats made to order; then there would be the name in addition—I am constantly making hats for Mr. Digance in very large number—that is my private mark which I put to all the hats I make for him—I make many gross for him in the course of a year—for a different quality hat, I should have a different mark to that—I know my own mark—that mark would be to many gross of hats.

MR. SOLICITOR-GENERAL to RICHARD TANNER. Q. Did you try the hat found in the carriage on Müller's head? A. Yes—it fitted.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY to MRS. BLYTHE. Q. Did you know of a coat that has been called an overcoat, with a velvet collar, belonging to Müller I A. Yes; I knew it well—I last saw that coat on Thursday, 14th July—that was the day of his leaving by the Victoria—I can't say whether he wearing it, or whether he had it on his arm; but I am sure I saw it Adjourned, Saturday, October 29th,

Witnesses for the Defence, THOMAS LEE. I live at King Edward's-road, Hackney—I am a private gentleman—my father was not in business as a coal-merchant—I knew the late Mr. Briggs for about three or four years, I should think—I last saw him alive on 9th July, Saturday evening, at the Bow Station, in a first-class carriage, about 10 o'clock, I think—it was a carriage of a train coming from Fenchurob-street—it stopped at the Bow Station—it was about three or four carriages from the engine, I think; but I did not notice that—I spoke to him—I said, Good-night, Mr. Briggs"—he answered, "Good-night, Tom"—he was sufficiently intimate with me to call me in that way—the train stopped rather longer than usual that night—I got into a second-class carriage, near the engine, to go to Hackney, where I live—there were two persons in the same compartment of the carriage with Mr. Briggs—there was a light in the carriage—I believe Mr. Briggs had his hat on, or else I should have noticed it; I should have noticed it certainly—one of the persons was sitting on the side of the carriage, next the platform, opposite Mr. Briggs—the other was sitting on the left-band side of Mr. Briggs; next to him, on the same side of the carriage—I saw sufficiently of those two persons to be able to give a description of them afterwards, one in particular—the man who sat opposite Mr. Briggs was a stoutish, thick-set man with light whiskers, and he had his hand in the squab or loop of the carriage, and it was rather a large hand—it was only a casual glance that I had of the other man—he appeared a tall, thin man, dark.

Q. To the best of your judgment, (I suppose you had but little time to see this man;) is the prisoner either of them? A. I cannot swear to him—I should rather think he was not—I did not give information to the police of what I had seen—neither of those persons appeared to be getting out at that station, or to be moving with the apparent intention of leaving the carriage—I did not see them almost directly before the train went off—I was in my own carriage for some time—when the carriage came up, and I spoke to Mr. Briggs, I saw no apparent intention of those persons leaving the carriage—I first mentioned this, I think, on the

Monday following, or the Tuesday, I am not certain which—that would be nearly as soon I heard of the murder—I did not mention it to the police—I spoke to a friend about it, and I believe it was communicated to the police—I was examined before the Coroner—I was called—I don't know on whose part I was called—the Coroner directed me to be there—I gave my evidence, I think, to Superintendent Howie—I believe he was acting in the conduct of the prosecution at that time.

Cross-examined by MR. SOLICITOR-GENERAL. Q. You were not before the Magistrate, I think? A. No—I live about twenty minutes' walk from the Hackney station—I went to Bow that night for a change—that was my only object in going—I think I left my house about 8 o'clock in the evening—I cannot be sure what time I left—I walked up Hackney a little way for amusement, for a stroll—I think the train I started by from Hackney was the quarter to 9 train, or 9; I am not certain which—I then went to Bow—I took a stroll down to Bow church—I only went to Bow for a stroll, that was all—I went into a house—I don't know the name of it—I called in and had a glass of ale—it was just beyond Bow church, on the left-hand side—a public-house—I only had one glass of ale—I did not go to any other house—I believe I did not—I cannot swear it—I simply went to Bow for a stroll—that is all the account I can give—I did not speak to anybody—I got back to my house at about a quarter to 11 that night, I think—I did not speak to anybody during that time—I cannot mention anybody that I saw on that occasion, except Mr. Briggs—I don't remember seeing anybody that I knew that night—I believe I did not—to the best of my belief, I will swear it—I cannot go beyond that, because it was some time ago.

Q. How do you know it was Saturday night, 9th July? A. Because I heard of the murder the following week, and that was the only night I saw Mr. Briggs at the Bow station so late—I heard of the murder some time on the Monday—I don't know what time it was; I think it was about the middle of the day—I cannot say whether I heard of it at Mr. Ireland's or Mr. Lake's—Mr. Ireland keeps a licensed public-house in Fetter-lane—that is where I go and have my dinner generally—Mr. Lake's is the Anchor eating-house in Cheapside—I say I don't know whether it was at Mr. Ireland's or Mr. Lake's that I first heard of the murder—I am not certain whether I dined at Mr. Ireland's or Mr. Lake's that day—I heard nothing of it the whole of Sunday—I am quite positive of that—I believe I heard of it on Monday—it might have been Tuesday, but I think it was Monday—I believe so—how can I swear to what I am not certain about?—I am almost certain, but not quite—if I was at Mr. Ireland's on the Monday, I was not there on the Tuesday—I cannot say whether I was there Monday or Tuesday, but it was one of those days.

Q. You heard of it either on the Monday or the Tuesday, having, as you say, seen Mr. Briggs within a few minutes of his murder in the same carriage with two men; why did not you give information to the police of it? A. Because I did not want to be brought up—I did not see what my evidence had to do with it—I mean to adhere to that answer—I did not see that there was any need to describe the two men to the police—I first mentioned to a friend of mine that I had seen two men, whom I could describe, in the carriage with Mr. Briggs—Mr. Tomkins was the friend—I cannot say when I mentioned it to him—I think it was on Monday night—I cannot swear what I only think—I have a wife—I told her of it on the Monday night—I am positive of that—I told Mr. Tomkins first, because I saw him before I got home—I think I saw him on the Monday—I have just

told you that I cannot swear what I only think—I believe I told him on the Monday—he is a doctor, not my doctor—the next person I told was my wife, I believe; then I spoke about it to Mr. Ireland—I did not know at the time that I should be called up for anything, therefore these facts did not impress themselves upon me—I say I think I told Mr. Ireland—how can I swear it when I say I think?—I neither swear one way or the other—I say, to the best of my belief I think I told Mr. Ireland—I think I told him on the Tuesday—I believe the next person I told it to was Howie, the superintendent—I did not go to him to give information; he came to me in consequence of what he had heard I had been talking about—he sent his man round to me on the Sunday morning, and he came on the Sunday afternoon—I should not have given any evidence at all to the police if they had not come to me—that was because I thought it unimportant; and not only that, I know what a bother it is in prosecution cases, and an inconvenience.

Q. Then you mean to say that, although you could give evidence on the subject of a murder of this kind, of your friend, as you represent him, you thought it a bother to come forward and speak about it; is that what you mean to say? A. Yes—I have something to do; I collect my own rents—I was examined before the Coroner—I believe I gave the same description of the men before the Coroner as I have done to-day.

(MR. SOLICITOR-GENERAL proposed to refer to the witness's depositions, which had been read to the Jury by Mr. Serjeant Parry in his speech, as a statement of what the witness would prove. MR. SERJEANT PARRY objected to any reference to the depositions unless put in evidence by the Crown, entitling him to a reply; the statement he had read to the Jury was not from the depositions, but from a copy contained in his brief. THE COURT was of opinion that the deposition could not be referred to unless put in. THE SOLICITOR-GENERAL was content to let the matter stand as it did.)

Q. Do you remember who the ticket-collector was that night who took your ticket? A. No—when I saw Mr. Briggs, the train had just stopped—I am sure of that—I went into my carriage directly after I bade him good night—I had been in Mr. Briggs's company several times—more than half-a-dozen times, a good deal; I will undertake to say that—I had never visited him at his house—he had never visited me—I had never dined with him, or he with me—I never took a meal of any kind with him—I had seen him in the City, and often riding home with him in the same carriage—that was my only acquaintance with him—he called me Tom lately—I am sure of that—he had called me Tom before—he was in the habit of calling me so latterly—I will swear he called me Tom that night—I got into the carriage next to his, one nearer the engine—I got out at the Hackney station—I did not observe the guard come with a lamp to the door of the carriage in which Mr. Briggs had been—I did not observe any commotion on the platform—I got out quickly—I heard of nothing extraordinary having occurred in the carriage next to me.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. How far is Hackney from Hackney-wick? A. Not far—I am able to swear that I heard of the murder either on the Monday or Tuesday—on the following Sunday afternoon, Mr. Howie, the superintendent, called on me—I then gave him an account of what I had seen—I gave him the same account that I have given here to-day—he wrote it down—I have not seen him here—on mentioning this account to whoever I have mentioned it, I believe I have always given the same account that I have given here to-day—I was examined twice before the Coroner—I

was not examined before the Coroner in the same sharp way that I have been by the Solicitor-General to-day—Mr. Beard asked me one or two questions—I was afterwards told to go to Bow-street—I think it was by Mr. Howie, or one of the officers in the case—that was to see if I could identify Müller—I was not called—I told them I could not identify him—I never knew the prisoner before—I had known Mr. Briggs two or three years—he was a gentleman of rather a cheerful and affable disposition—he generally used to sleep coming home in the railway carriage—he was not asleep when I bade him good-night at the Bow station on this night.

COURT. Q. Do you say he generally used to go to sleep? A. Yes.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. When you arrived at Hackney, I believe the train was late; did you immediately get out of your carriage? A. Yes, and left the station rather quicker because I was rather late.

JURY. Q. When Mr. Briggs was asleep, was he in the habit of having his hat on or off? A. He used to have it on.

GEORGE BYERS . I live at 4, Bridge-road, Ebury-bridge, Pimlico, and am a hatter—I was brought up to it from a boy—I am acquainted with all the branches of the hat trade, and the second-hand hat trade most particularly—cutting down hats and sewing them is usual in the second-hand hat trade with me and others—it is usual to stitch them when they have been cot down—this hat is not as I should do it, because it is not stuck—I should stick it with dissolved shell-lac, as well as stitch it—that would involve more time and trouble in the work.

COURT. Q. You say that you would do it in a different way; what is that? A. I should stitch it, and then fasten it with dissolved shell-lac; in fact, it would be then independent of the stitches—that is the usual way in which it is done in the trade—I should cut it down of course, but I should likewise gum it or fasten it as I have said with the dissolved shell-lac—that is the way in the trade—it is usual—others do it.

JURY. Q. Do you think any hatter would do it in that way? A. Well, some men, as I may say, are bunglers—they might probably, in a hurry, put a hat together for a customer if it is wanted in a hurry, and not have time to stitch it—I cannot answer the question, whether this way of stitching is a hatter's method—when a hat is cut down, I could, independently of the sewing, gum it, and make a good job of it, probably in half an hour—I mean to say that it would take half an hour to gum it, to finish it, to stick it on, and then to put the silk in its place after it is stiched; and then it is finished.

Q. Should you cut the lining down as well as the leather? A. Well, I should take the leather out to do it—I should not cut the leather off—if I had a job of that sort, I should put a new leather in.

WILLIAM LEE . I am a hatter, and live in Queen's-road, Chelsea—I have been six or seven years in the trade—after cutting second-hand hats down, I always stitch them—the object in cutting hats down is because they are worn lower now—besides stitching them, hatters use varnish—I have done a great many hats in the same way as this—if any one asked me to cut this hat down, who did not require a new lining, I could put the old lining in—it is cheaper to stitch them in the second-hand trade, because we save the expense of buying shell-lac—I know nothing of the prisoner, and have never seen the hat before—I did not volunteer to come, I was subpaenaed.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Look at the lining of this hat; is that cut in the way you would cut it?—you observe it is cut, do you not, the edge of it, the leather? A. It is lower—the leather has been

cut—I do not know why the leather should be out—we do not cut the leather in our trade.

Q. I suppose people would never think of cutting a piece out of a good hat, would they? you say they are cut down for the purpose of improving them? A. The hat is worn lower now, and therefore we take a portion out; that is to say it would become a more saleable hat after it had been so treated.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Have you, as regards the stitching of that hat, done many hats in the same way in your trade? A. Yes—I never had to cut down any hats on account of the grease from the head having destroyed them—I never cut one down for that reason.

JURY. Would you have stitched the hat in the same way in which this is done if you had done the job? Look at the underneath part, under the lining. A. Yet, this is done in the way that I should stitch a hat.

Q. Exactly in the same sort of way, you would put the stitches in the same zig-zag way as this is done? A. I should not put so many stitches—not so close together—this is cut down rather lower than they have been worn.

ALFRED COOPER WOODWARD . I am a clerk in the Electric and International Telegraph Company—the London District Company is in exclusive connexion with it—it is quite a separate company—I produce from the office the original telegram, of which this (produced) is the copy delivered—it was sent from the office on 9th July—(Read: "Sender of message, Alexander Gill Strachan, Mr. Drake's, Somerset-street, Whitechapel To Miss Eldred, Stanley-cottage, James-street, Vassal-road, Camberwell New-road. Gone to Stratford, but I shall be with you to-morrow, Sunday, at 3 o'clock. Be at home. I shall come without fail Yours in haste, Alexander Gill Strachan.") I have been looking at this while the original has been read—this is an exact copy—it was, I should think, sent out from the office on 9th July.

Cross-examined by MR. SOLICITOR-GENERAL. Q. Just tell me what means you have of knowing that it was sent on the 9th? A. It bears the date of the 9th at the top, I think it is the third line.

COURT. Q. At what time was the message sent? A. It was given in at our Mincing-lane office at half-past 4, and was sent at twenty-five minutes to 5—it might be half an hour or less reaching its destination.

ELIZABETH JONES . I live at 1, St. George's-road, Peckham—I do not know how far that is from Camberwell-gate—in July last I lived at Stanley-cottage, James-street, Vassall-road—I have two female lodgers—they are young women who receive the visits of men—I have a young woman living with me named Mary Ann Eldred—she lives with me still—she has lived with me ten months—I know the prisoner—he has been in the habit occasionally of coming to see Mary Ann Eldred—I had known him visiting, her for about nine or ten months before 9th July—she knew him before she came to me—she has known him about twelve months, I believe—I remember her receiving this telegram quite well—I do not recollect what time I received it—it was some time in the afternoon—I saw Müller on 9th July, about half-past 9 in the evening—Mary Ann Eldred was not come home—she had left the house about 9—she had been out about half an hour—Müller called to see her, and found she was not at home—he stayed about five or ten minutes at the door, talking with me—I am sure it was as much as half-past 9—he then left—bearing in mind this telegram, I am sure it was on Saturday, 9th July, about half-past 9, that I saw the young man

—we used to call him Miller—I always called him the little frenchman—the young lady used to tell us he was a German, but I always used to call him the little Frenchman if ever he called when she was out—he had a slipper on that night, and he told me that he had hurt his foot—I did not notice what colour the slipper was, but he told me he was obliged to come out in a slipper, for he had met with an accident, and had hurt his foot—I next saw Mary Ann Eldred on Sunday morning, and told her that her friend had been—(MR. R. SERJEANT BALLANTINE submitted that this was not evidence,

MR. SERJEANT PARR* contended that it was not a conversation, but a statement of a fact. The COURT considered that the conversation would not be evidence.) I made a communication to her the next morning, and to my husband the same evening—I do not know the distance from my then house in the Vassall-road to Camber well-green, where the omnibuses start from, but I should say it is more than half a mile, three-quarters of a mile; Beresford-street is a very long street.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. I suppose Miss Eldred is here? A. Yes—I am living now in another house, but in the same name that I passed by in Vassal-road—I am sure of that—I do not know what name my husband took the house in, whether in the name of Kent or Jones—his name is Kent—my name has been Jones some thirty-six years, and I have always gone in the name of Jones—this is my second husband—I do not know Nelson-square, Peckham—I know nothing about Peckham—I am living at Peckham, but I do not know any part, I am a stranger to that part—I am living about half a mile down the road from where I lived before—it was Camberwell before, and now I have got down the road to Peckham, but I do not know where Nelson-square is—supposing a person wanted to get to Fenchurch-street or King William-street, he would go up towards Camberwell-gate for an omnibus—it would take a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes to walk there from Vassall-road—it is half a mile, or more—you can then get plenty of omnibuses to London-bridge—the Peckham. omnibuses do not go to Camberwell-gate, they go by the Lord Nelson—I do not know whether the Peckham and Camberwell omnibuses meet in King William-street—I believe they both go over London-bridge—I cannot give the Jury any idea about the time I received this telegram, it is so long ago—my memory is good in relation to the time the prisoner called—I took in the telegram of the postman; of the messenger—I believe I had to sign for it—it was taken up stairs—it was so long ago I do not remember anything about the letter, only about the time on that day—the gentleman that sent it lives in the neighbourhood of Peckham—directly I received it, I took it up to Eldred—she occupies the first-floor upstairs—when at home I generally dine at 1 or 2 o'clock—not always at one hour—I can't say exact to an hour—I am never later that 2—the telegram came after dinner—I really do not remember how long after dinner, because I had no reason to remember all that—Müller came about half-past 9 in the evening, about half an hour after Miss Eldred went out—I know what time she went out, because she called to know the time—she did not leave home till 9—that is the way I know it—I remember at this distance of time that Miss Eldred called to know the time before she went out—I cannot say what time after the telegram Muller called—I had a clock in the kitchen, I looked at it, and called out to Miss Eldred, "9 o'clock," and then she went away—when inquiries were made, she remembered receiving this telegram, and, afterwards, that Müller called in the evening—it is seven or eight weeks ago, I think, that somebody came to inquire what I knew about Muller calling on that

evening—a German gentleman called first, and another gentleman—we did not know before that that Mailer was the man—when the German gentleman came, he asked if we knew him, and when he was at our house last—they called two or three times—I can't say how long the first time was after Mailer called.

Q. You remember with minuteness the particulars of Müller's calling on you; I ask you, how long after he called did somebody call to inquire about him? A. It was some weeks after we had seen Müller—the first persons I saw were a German gentleman and another gentleman—we had heard at that time that Müller was suspected, but we did not know whether it was the same or not, as he went by the name of Müller—we did not know it was the same till the German gentleman came—Eldred was with me when the German gentleman came; she was called into the room—she produced the telegram, she had it in her box with other letters and papers—we had not the telegram on the table when he came, it was fetched afterwards—Miss Eldred remembered haying the letter on the same day, and she fetched it—the German gentleman did not mention the day, but Miss Eldred heard that the murder was committed on the 9th—she and I had had conversation about the murder no more than reading the paper—I mean that she was not at all aware that the man accused of the murder was her friend Miller—she had no idea of such a thing for some time, but when we used to read the papers, he being a tailor, and the names being Müller and Müller, we thought it seemed to correspond with the same young man who we knew, also from his being lame when we saw him last, and what was stated in the paper—she did not get out the telegram before the German gentleman came, nor had she said anything about it—she did not know the day till she looked, but she remembered that she had the telegram on the day he last called at our house, and she said, "If I can find the telegram I will, if I have not destroyed it"—when she looked for it she found it—the telegram was not shown to the German gentleman then—it was only two or three weeks ago that it was found—she has always had it by her, but it was never sought for.

Q. It is six or seven weeks since the German gentlemen came who were assisting in the defence of Müller; if she had the telegram when they called why did not she go and look for it at once? A. She might not have thought of it—I do not know whether she told the German gentleman that day that she had the telegram; I was not in the room all the time—nothing was said about the telegram while I was in the room—I remembered distinctly that the telegram was received on the day that Muller called last—I did not tell the German gentleman so, but she gave him the letter to convince him as soon as she found it.

Q. Why did not you tell the German gentleman that Müller had called at half-past 9 on that evening, and that you remembered the day by the telegram? A. Well, I do not know—I did not interfere with her affairs—I did not think of it at the time; they did not refer to any letter, neither did I—I do not know whether Eldred told him—I left him and her alone in the room both before and after—the first time that Eldred and I had any conversation about the telegram may be three weeks ago, that would be some three or four weeks after the German gentleman called on us—I never knew of it until about three weeks ago, because we did not know the day of the month, but she said, "I had a letter from my friend," calling him by his name," and if I can find that letter I shall know the day of the month;

I hope I have not destroyed it"—that was two or three weeks ago, and she looked in her box and found it.

Q. Can you say how she came to say this two or three weeks ago, never having referred to it before; can you explain that? A. She remembered having the letter the same day, and she knew if she had to come up she would not like to false swear, and she would know by that letter the date—I took the telegram to Miss Eldred—I have parted with it to the gentlemen who are defending the prisoner—my husband gave it to them in my presence, but not in Miss Eldred's presence; Miss Eldred sent it to him, but she said she did not know if it would be of any service—I think that was a fortnight ago come Tuesday; a week last Tuesday the German gentleman has had the letter in his possession—Miss Eldred brought it down, and gave it to my husband; I saw her do it; it was last Monday week she brought it down, and on the Tuesday she gave it to the German gentleman—I mean that at the time she gave it she said that she did not know it was of any service—Miss Eldred was sometimes in the habit of asking the time before she went out, but not always—I cannot say whether she did so the night before; I think she did—she generally wants to know the time—I cannot say whether she did on the night after—she does not go out on Sunday evenings—I cannot recollect whether she did on the Monday—sometimes she will ask the time three or four times a day—there is no clock in her room.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. I believe you said that you should never have been able to fix the date unless that telegram had been found? A. Yes—I knew it was on a Saturday—I think it was seven or eight weeks ago when the German gentleman and one of Mr. Beard's clerks came—I told them merely that Müller had called, that he had been in the habit of visiting our house, he called on the Saturday, as we heard of the murder on Tuesday—I was not able to fix the date except by the telegram, but we should have known by hearing of the murder on Tuesday; that made me so positive as to the day of the month—I never eat supper, nor does Miss Eldred, before—she goes out.

JURY.* Q. Had Müller a hat or a cap that evening? A. A hat.

MARY ANN ELDRED . In July last I lived at Lant-street, in the Borough; I now live at Peckham—before I went to Lant-street I lived in Islington; I once lived at Camberwell, with the same landlady I am with now—it was at Stanley-cottage, James street, Vassall-road—I was living there in July last—I know Müller; I have known him twelve months—I was often in the habit of seeing him—I remember receiving this telegram—I had met Müller on the Saturday previous to receiving that telegram in the Old Jewry, Cheapside; that was the Saturday before 9th July—on the day I received the telegram I went out at 9 in the evening—I remained out till after 12—I came home that night—I did not see my landlady till the morning—she then told me that a friend of mine had called—I cannot recollect how long it was after she told me that, before I heard of the murder; I can't tell at all—I am quite sure I went out at 9 o'clock—I generally went out at 9, and the prisoner called at half-past 9—he did not call before I went out—I knew that he was going abroad, several weeks before he went; he told me, and asked me to go with him; he said he was going to America to see his sister, and if I did not go with him he should remain there only six months.

Q. When did you first make any communication to anybody about his having been there that night? A. I don't remember telling any one—I remember a German gentleman calling; I did not see them the first day

they came—I can't remember a gentleman afterwards calling and speaking to me about it—I did not make any statement, or say anything that was taken down in writing by a gentleman—I have seen Mr. Beard—I have had the telegram a long time—I gave it up to Mr. Beard or some one sent by him two or three days ago, I think.

Cross-examined by MR. SOLICITOR-GENERAL. Q. When did you see Mr. Beard? A. A few days ago; it was not so long as a month ago—I can't remember how long it was after I last saw Müller that I spoke to anybody about this; I don't remember that I ever did—I did not see a German gentleman; I saw two gentlemen together at Mrs. Jones's, some weeks ago; three or four weeks ago—I did not say anything about the telegram then; I did not know I had got it till I was looking over my letters—I first said anything about the telegram a few days ago—until the two gentlemen called about a month ago my attention had not been called to the date or time of Müller coming to see me—when the gentlemen called I remembered at once the exact time that I went out that night; I remembered going out at 9—having the telegram from this gentleman made me recollect going out at 9 that night—I cannot say the time I received the telegram, but it was toward? the afternoon; I cannot tell within an hour when I received it, it might have been 1 o'clock, or it might have been 2—I dined that day after 4—I can't exactly tell the time; I should say it was about that time; I can't tell within half an-hour—I can't remember what time I breakfasted that day; it might have been 10, or it might have been 11—it was after 11 when I got up—it was much after 12 when I went to bed; it was past 12, I dare say half-past; I only guess—I am positive I went out exactly at 9; that was about the time I generally used to go out—I went out every night at that time—I can remember it so well, and the telegram—I don't know that the telegram had anything to do with the time I went, out that night—I recollect the time because I can remember so well my landlady telling me that Müller had called in the evening; it was the next morning she told me that—the receiving the telegram had nothing to do with the time of my going out—I don't know why that should assist me in recollecting the time I went out.

JURY. Q. Have you been in the habit of seeing Müller's hat? A. No.

THOMAS BEARD . I have conducted the prisoner's defence, instructed by the German Legal Protection Society—I have heard Haffa examined here in the course of this trial—I heard him say that Müller told him when he left the Old Jewry, Aldgate, at a quarter to 8, that he was going to Camberwell to see his sweetheart—Haffa had communicated that fact to me before the arrival of Müller in this country—I am not quite sure whether he had said it at the police-court, but he had communicated it to me out of court—I received that communication somewhere about four or five days before Müller's arrival from America—he arrived on 17th Sept—in consequence of that I instructed my clerk to accompany one of the gentlemen of the Protection Society to make inquiries about this matter, and he did so—he brought the result back to me—this telegram must have been first handed to me about twelve or fourteen days ago; I am not quite sure as to the day, but about that time—I had proofs produced to me by my clerk and a German gentleman before Müller's arrival, and also the proofs of Eldred and Jones—the telegram was shown to you on consulation—I don't know the day exactly—I dare say it was Thursday week—I had not then had it in my possession above a couple of days.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. I suppose it was under

your judgment that neither of these witnesses were called either at the police, court or before the Coroner? A. It was.

CHARLES FOREMAN . I am an omnibus-conductor, living at 7, Norfolk-street, Montpelier-street, Peckham—I conduct an omnibus of Mr. Barwick's, a fly-master, of Camber well-gate, running from Peckham-rye to Gracechurch-street—we go from Peckham right through Camberwell, and Walworth, and Newington, to the Borough—the Peckham-rye omnibuses run through Camberwell-gate, up the Walworth-road, Newington-causeway, and so into the City—mine is a Peckham omnibus; we go to Peckham and then to Peckham-rye—there are other Peckham omnibuses that go up the Old Kent-road—they start from New Peckham; that is quite a different route from ours—they go to the Elephant and Castle, and branch off by St. George's church—leave Camberwell just about five minutes to 10—I generally arrive in King William-street about twenty minutes past 10, and leave again at the half hour, or a minute or two over the half-hour—the journey before that I leave Camberwell-gate about 7 o'clock—it is a little more than a quarter of a mile from Camberwell-gate to Camberwell-green—it may be about a quarter of a mile from Camber well-green to Vassall-road; I cannot say exactly—one end of it comes into the Camberwell New-road and one end into the Brixton-road.

Q. Do you remember on any occasion carrying a man in your omnibus with a slipper on his foot? A. I had a gentleman ride in my omnibus with a slipper on his foot, but when that was I could not say—it was the last journey, the five minutes to 10 journey towards the City, getting in at Camberwell-gate—I could not at all say what day of the month it was, or what month it was in—I could not say at all how long ago it was; it was in the summer, but I could not say the month or date, or whether it was July or August—I cannot tell the day of the week—my attention was not called to it till about a month or five weeks ago—the gentleman appeared to me to be lame, and how I came to notice him was, as he was getting out of the omnibus he seemed rather stout to me, and he leant rather heavily on the left arm, and I thought to myself, "You have got a touch of my complaint," that is the gout—that was how I came to notice him.

Q. Did you notice at all the colour of the man's hair? A. To the best of my belief he seemed rather fair, and to the best of my belief rather stout—to the best of my belief the slipper looked like a Brussels carpet slipper—I could not swear that this was the slipper (looking at the one produced)—I cannot say whether it resembles it; it was a carpet slipper, to the best of my belief.


OLD COURT.—Monday, October, 24th, 1864.

Before Mr. Recorder.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-921
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

921. CHARLES BROWN (15), was indicted for Feloniously forging and uttering an order for 350l. with intent to defraud.

MESSRS. SLEIGH and GIFFARD conducted the Prosecution, and MR. METCALFE the Defence.

JOHN KING . I am one of the cashiers of the City Bank, Threadneedle-street—Mr. Alexander Watt, of Great St. Helen's, keeps an account there—on Friday, 10th June, this cheque was presented to me by a commissionaire; I don't recollect the time—the appearance of the signature excited my suspicion, and I wrote upon it, "Requires indorsement"—it is payable to order

—after asking the commissionaire where he had brought it from, I gave it back to him, with directions to take it to Mr. Watt.

GEORGE REUBEN HABBERLEY . I am a commissionaire, and live at 4, Charles-street, Commercial-road—on Friday, 10th June, I was in Leadenhall-street—about half-past 2 the lad Harden came up to me and gave me this cheque—in consequence of what he said to me I took it to the City Bank—I did not get the Cash for it—I then took the cheque to Mr. Watt—Harden handed me a card at the same time as the cheque—I left the cheque with Mr. Watt, in Great St. Helen's.

JAMES FREDERICK HARDEN (a prisoner). I was formerly in the service of Mr. Alexander Watt, of Great St. Helen's, for about three or four months—I am sixteen years of age—I am now under sentence of penal servitude—I know the prisoner—I went to school with him, I think, for about twelve or eighteen months—I knew him while he was in the service of Messrs. Herzoff and Herman; that was in June last—he asked me to take a cheque from my master—he said if I took a cheque from my master and learnt to copy his handwriting, and wrote it out for a sum of money; if I gave it to a commissionaire to take to the bank, he would wait outside till the commissionaire went for the money; and if anybody came out with him he would come and tell me at once, and I could leave the office and get away, so that they could not take me in charge—it was about 3d June, I think, that he first spoke to me about doing that—I took one of my master's cheques—it was one, I think—we used to frequent an ice-shop, and we used to try and copy Mr. Alexander Watt's writing—we did that a good many times, every evening after we left our office, for about a fortnight before the cheque was sent to the bank—we used to lay the. name of Mr. Watt underneath the piece of paper—we got Mr. Watt's name from a circular of Mr. Watt's—this (produced) is the circular—at last be took the paper from me, and said I could not copy it well enough; he would take the paper and keep it, and give it to me the next morning—I gave him the cheque, and he went home; and, I believe, copied it at home, and he brought it to me next morning written out—it was "Pay to order," I believe, 417l.—it was not this cheque—he gave me that cheque and told me to give it to a commissionaire, and he would wait outside, and if anybody came out with the commissionaire he would come and tell me, so that I could go away—I don't know what has become of that cheque—I beg your pardon, I gave it him that evening—when the commissionaire came from the bank he came to Mr. Watt's office, Mr. Watt was not in the office, I took the cheque from him and told him I knew there was something wrong in it, and I took it away from him—I left the office that afternoon, and I met Brown in the evening—he took it from me, and said, "Oh, that is no go," and he tore it up—he then told me had got a plan in his head—I told him I could not go home any more, I had disgraced myself; I would keep away from Mr. Watt's office and from home—he said, "Don't be a fool, go home and see if anybody has called from Mr. Watt's office; if not, they will not take any notice of it; if they have not taken any notice, I will tell you what the plan is"—I asked him what it was—he told me if I went and got three or four cheques he would copy one as well as he could, of Mr. Alexander Watt's—I had found out that Mr. Watt did not sign his name "Watt and Oust"—by seeing him write another cheque I found it was "Alexander Watt"—the 417l. cheque was signed ' Watt and Oust"—I copied the name of Alexander Watt myself on a piece of paper from the copying letter-book, and gave it to him to copy on the cheque—he took it, and told me that if I gave him another cheque he would

copy it out next morning, and give it me next morning—I gave him another cheque, and next morning he told me he had spoilt it, that he had crossed it, and he ought not to have crossed it—I took it from him and put it in my pocket—this is it (produced)—he said, "If you give me another cheque I will give it you in the morning"—I gave him another blank cheque, and he gave it me next morning—he told me to give it to the commissionaire who stands opposite the East India House, or where the old East India House stood—it was this cheque for 350l, signed "Alexander Watt"—he told me if I gave him that, and wrote out a card with my father's direction on it, to bring the money to my father's, he would give me the cheque to take to the commissionaire—I wrote out a card for my father's house of business, and I was to wait opposite the shop till the commissionaire brought the money, and when the commissionaire brought the money, I was to cross the road and take it out of his hand—this is the card—I was then to go to the ice-cream shop and wait for him till he came in the evening—this was on Saturday—I was to take a cab from Whitechapel Church or somewhere near there, and go to different places to spoil all trace of me—I gave the cheque to the commissionaire, I waited opposite my father's house all the afternoon till about 4 o'clock—when I found the commissionaire did not come, I left my father's house and went to Brown's office, and waited till he left—when he was leaving the office he said, You may be sure now that they are after you"—as we were walking home I saw Mr. Watt and another gentleman hi a Hansom cab, coming by Aldgate Church—I ran after the cab to see whether it was Mr. Watt, and I came back and told him it was—he then said I had better keep away; keep in the dark as much as I could—I was taken into custody about a week after—we went to the ice cream shop close to the Effingham Saloon—I saw him again in the evening—he came and asked me to give him the cheques I had taken—I had three more blank cheques in my pocket—he told me if I gave him those cheques to give to Mr. Watt they would not prosecute me—I had told him how many I had taken out of the cheque-book—there were five altogether, six with the one for Watt and Oust—I gave him the cheques, and he took them away—I saw him again before I was taken into custody almost every night—I slept at a coffee-shop a little way from the Effingham—I did not go home—we used to meet occasionally at the Effingham, and sometimes at the London Hospital, Whitechapel-road.

Cross-examined. Q. When were you taken in custody? A. A week after, on Friday night, and I was at the Mansion House on Saturday—I was sent here for—the trial was postponed one session, and in August I pleaded guilty to the uttering, and was sentenced to five years penal servitude—the crossed cheque was given back to me by Brown—I kept it in my pocket, and then left it in ray desk at Mr. Watt's; it was not a desk that locks up, it was an open desk—my master got it from my desk—I left it there before the other cheque was presented; about a day before I think—I put it under the bottom of the desk, under some paper—I don't know why I left it there, I suppose I forgot it—r got six blank cheques from my master, one first, and then five—I am not sure that I gave him three or four—I took six, I believe, from my master's book; there was the one he signed Watt and Oust, this one, and that one, and I gave him three, I believe, to give back to Mr. Watt; those were all the cheques I took—I won't be sure whether it was three or four that I gave him; it was either six or seven altogether—Mr. Watt had left the cheque-book in his office—I believe he left it open accidentally; he was in a hurry and he went out one afternoon, and then I took the cheques—the one I took that was signed Watt and Oust, I took

from the book out of the safe; the safe was open as I passed by—it was in the evening—Mr. Watt was doing what he wanted with the books, and as I was posing by copying letters, I took the cheque-book out of the safe and tore the cheque out, and put the cheque-book back, as I passed the safe again—I have said before to-day that I took the cheques at two different times, one first, and then the others—I told Mr. Mullens so before I was convicted—I do not know Louis Hoenig—I don't know any person of that name (he was called in)—I know that lad—I don't know him personally, I have only known him through seeing him with Brown; I never knew his name or anything about him—I never knew his name—I have only known him since this case—I have seen him occasionally with Brown when he left the office—he has come home with Brown; he lived somewhere by Brown—I had seen Brown with him about a week—I did not go to school with that lad—I went to School with Brown at Mr. Cox-ford's in Great Prescott-street—this lad was not with me during any part of this transaction—he did not know anything about this case—I had nothing to do with him, I have merely known him by seeing him with Brown—I have spoken to him when Brown was speaking to him, when we were walking together—he never went to the ice shop with us, because Brown said we were not to let anybody know where we went—he went to the Effingham; I have been there with him—we used to stay there and see the acting—it is a theatre; we went there together—I think he had only been about three or four times before I was taken; I mean he went with me and Brown, and he has walked with us down the Whitechapel-road before the play began—we went nearly every night to the play—I never had occasion to call him by any name—I never heard Brown call him anything—I knew that he worked somewhere in Mincing-lane—I have never been charged with anything before this—this was the first time I was ever in a police-station or court—I was never charged with stealing a 10l. note, nor ever accused of it—I know Mr. Thornton, the minister of a chapel—I was not accused of taking money out of the poor-box of the chapel—I was told that I had—the housemaid told Mr. Thornton that I went to the cupboard to a box—I did go to the box for something else—it was a cupboard in Mr. Thornton's dining-room; there was no poor-box there that I know of—there was something of mine there, some large buttons with a coat of arms on them—I had them from some boys—Mr. Thornton had gone out of town, and they were having the place cleaned; the carpet was up, and some men were then nailing it down, and I put some things in the cupboard—I did not know it was used for anything else—I worked for Mr. Thornton—I was discharged—that is twelve or eighteen months ago—I was about three or four months at Mr. Watt's—before that I was with Mr. Jackson, a wholesale cloth manufacturer, for eight or ten months—I left because they wanted me to draw a barrow, my father would not let me do it—no charge was made against me there—they did not accuse me of taking anything out of the poor-box—they said I had been to the cupboard—nobody ever made a charge against me of stealing a 10l. note—no one said I had stolen a 10l. note; I never took a 10l. note—a great many boys go to the Effinghans, Saloon—I don't know whether they went to the ice cream shop—we went to a room up stairs; we found pen and ink there, not paper; we used to find the paper, and we had blue ink.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. What was it that the housemaid said about your going to the cupboard? A. She came in and told Mr. Thornton while I was at the cupboard—he came in and said, "James, you have been at the cup-board?"—I said "Yes, sir"—he said, "You are a thief'"—I could not understand him—I said, "Why?"—he said, "You can leave me at once,"

and I took up my cap and left—he came to my father, and they gave me a good talking to and that was all—I never heard what was supposed to be missed out of the poor-box—I never heard anything as to the 10l. note until to-day.

ALEXANDER WATT . I am a metal-broker, of 15, Great St. Helen's—the boy Harden was an office-boy of ours for two or three months previous to June last—I missed some cheques from my cheque-book in June—I saw the prisoner at Harden's father's shop on 10th or 11th June—it was the day the commissionaire came back with the cheque—we had a two hours' conversation—I went to Harden's father to tell him the circumstances, and to endeavour to get from him the remainder of the cheques—the prisoner was not present first of all—I saw Harden's brother first—I went there a second time and then saw the prisoner there—I said to the prisoner, "You mast find this boy Harden"—he said he had left him only a quarter of an hour before, but he did not know where he was—I told him that we must find him, that he knew perfectly well where he was, as he was a friend of his; he must use his best exertions to recover these cheques—before that be asked what I wanted him for—I told him he knew perfectly well—I then told him it was a very important matter, and asked if he knew anything of what had been done—he said a great many things had been done—I then told him it was a case of forgery, and he said he knew all about it—after waiting with him some time, I told him that he must get these cheques for the sake of the boy's mother—it appears that he was very intimate with the Hardens—he said, "If Harden brings these cheques to you, will you collar him?"—I said I would not—he stood a minute or two, and then said, "Then you shall have them back, if you wait here for a quarter of an hour"—he went away, and returned in about a quarter of an hour with two or three cheques—this cheque for 350l. is not my writing nor was it written by my authority.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you produce the cheque-book? A. I have not—produced it to-day—I have not got it with me—there were four missing it first, and one or two since—the cheques were abstracted from different parts of the book from the binding, so that it might be passed over without notice—the cheque-book contains a certain number—I believe my partner has counted them—he is not here.

COURT. Q. Have you no means of testing the boy's statement, whether there were five, six, or seven cheques? A. There were five I know; there may have been one more—I can fetch the cheque-book—this crossed cheque was found in Harden's desk about six weeks ago, since he was convicted—the desk bad been unlocked in the mean time—I have only one clerk, and an office-boy—Harden said nothing to me about Brown before his conviction—I have seen Brown at the office—I have had no communication with Harden since his conviction.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. How often have you seen Brown at your office? A. Once, that was about five weeks previous to the forgery of this cheque for 350l.—it was one day previous to the cheque for 400l having been written.

LOUIS HOENIG . I live with my father, at White Hart-court, Commercial-road—I am a junior clerk, in the employment of Messrs. Westeudaro and Buck, of Little Tower-street—I have known Brown about seven or eight years—I know Harden—I saw him in the company of Brown—I don't remember whether I saw him in June—some person had been to my fathers house—in consequence of that, I went to Brown's office next morning—I asked him for an explanation why he had brought Harden's brother to my

house in search of James Harden, he very well knowing him not to be there—he then told me that Harden bad forged a cheque for the sum of 350l. under the name of Mr. Alexander Watt—I asked him again why he had brought Harden's brother to my house, just as if I had been an accomplice of James Harden—he laughed, and said it was merely a joke of his, and I was to forget all about it—we then parted; in about two or three days I met him again—he then said he would try and get Harden to sea, to go on board a ship, then he (Brown) should be free—I met him after that nearly every day for about two or three weeks—I met him on board a steam-boat one day; that was about two or three weeks after—he then told me that Harden had been taken into custody for a forgery—I met him again one day, and while walking along the street, he said, "Would it not have been a fine thing to have got that money which Harden intended to defraud"—I said it would certainly have been very fine, but it was not fine now for Harden, as he was in custody—after that, he said he had a secret to tell me, but if he found out that I played him false, I should pay dearly for it—I asked him to tell me the secret—he then said that he had helped James Harden to forge the cheque, and he greatly feared when the trial came on, they would call him up as a witness, and keep him in Newgate as well as Harden—he then said his intention was to forge two more cheques on his masters, Messrs. Herzoff and Herman, of 400l. each—he also asked me to forge a cheque upon my masters, for 400l.—I said he was a silly fellow to have such a notion in his head, and I also said that he would go where Harden now was—I also said, "I shall have nothing to do with you any more, as you are a dangerous character"—he then said, "If it should come as far as I should be captured, I shall implicate you in it"—I said, "You can't implicate me, for I have nothing to do with it"—he said that his yes and no was as good as mine—we then parted, and I said I should not speak to him any more—in consequence of that, I reported it to the minister of the German Church, who had recommended him to the place—that was on the next Sunday.

Cross-examined. Q. How long ago was it? A. I believe it was on the Friday that he spoke to me about it, and on Sunday I reported it to Dr. Chappel, the minister of the German Church—it was somewhere in July, I can't remember; about the end of July—I also told a school-mate of mine, John Treford—I sometimes went to the Effingham Saloon, but only with Brown once—I never went to the ice shop—I have been to the Effingham Saloon a good many times—I was there with Harden once, without Brown; that was the very evening when Brown came with Harden's brother to my house—that was before Harden was in custody—I was only there once with Harden, but when I was there with Brown, I am not quite sure whether Harden was not there—I have not been there with other persons—on the other occasions I went alone—I have not met Harden there on other occasions—I never knew Harden; I only saw him four or five times in Brown's company—I went to school with Brown—I first saw Harden in Brown's company; I dare say that was in the beginning of June, about three weeks before Harden was in custody—I have been two years, on 9th January next, with Messrs. Westerdand and Buck—no charge was made against me of taking postage-stamps—I was never asked about any postage-stamps; do you mean foreign postage-stamps?—I used to have some foreign postage-stamps which came on the letters of our correspondents; I am allowed to take them; they have been used—I have never been charged with taking postage-stamps that have not been used—I did not sell any in Lombard-street—my masters

deal in all manner of things for which they can get orders, where they can make some commission—I have never been charged with going round and getting samples of coffee in the name of my masters, and selling them for—myself—nobody can say such a thing—I have to get plenty of samples, but they are for my masters to send abroad—I have not used them for myself—sometimes the chief clerk gives me a few to take home, some raisins or currants—I do not sell them—I have sold some coffee to persons I know—I can't remember how often; several times, but they were not out of our office—I have sold to friends of my own, and others, on my own account, and kept the money—I got it from a friend of mine, who is in a coffee broker's—he has the sweepings that fall on the ground, and on the counter out of the samples—they are dirty—he sells it me at about fivepence a pound, and I pick it over, and make good coffee out of it, and that gives me pocket-money—it would be very hard for me to remember how much pocket-money I have made—I do not get tea in the same way—I get plums; they are not sweepings—I do not sell the plums—I eat the plums, and sell the coffee—I have not got samples in my master's name, and sold them—I would not dare to do such a thing.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Are you still in their service? A. Yes.

FREDERICK HERZOFF . I am a member of the firm of Herzoff and Hermann, of Mincing-lane—the prisoner was in our service in the early part of this year, and until July, altogether about fifteen months, I believe, as junior clerk—each of the clerks had a blotting-pad—this (produced) is the one which the prisoner used—there are different signatures on it—our own names are there, and I find the name of Alexander Watt there.

Cross-examined. Q. All sorts of names in different handwritings? A. Yes; I can't say that any of it was written by the prisoner—we have several other persons in our establishment; lads. and full-grown persons—the prisoner was still in our service when this matter turned up.

JOHN MARK BULL . I am one of the detective-officers of the City of Loudon. police—I had charge of the case against Harden—on the evening of 8th September last, I saw the prisoner in Colchester-street, Whitechapel—I said to him, "Charley Brown"—he said, "Yes; that is my name"—I said, "Do you know a youth of the name of James Frederick Harden?"—he said, "Yes, I do"—there was another officer with me—I told the prisoner that I was a detective-officer of the City-police, and I apprehended him for being concerned, with James Frederick Harden, then under penal servitude for five years, in forging the signature of Alexander Watt, to a cheque for 350l. on 10th June last, with intent to defraud the governor and directors of the City Bank—he said, "I know he did it; I know all about it"—I then took him to Bishopsgate-station, and searched him, but nothing relating to the case was found upon him—he said, "I had none of the money"—on taking him from Bishopsgate-station to Moor-lane, where they detain prisoners under charge, he said, "I suppose I shall get off with a fine?"—I told him he would find it was no finable matter—he said, "Well; I shan't get five years like Harden; I shan't get more than two years"—I afterwards said to him, "I am about to ask you a question, you need not answer me without you please, 'who did you get those cheques from that you gave to Mr. Watt?"—he made no reply.

Cross-examined. Q. You are generally more successful in your cross-examinations, are you not? A. Occasionally; not always—I first received instructions to apprehend the prisoner I think seven or eight days before 8th September; on the 1st or 2d, I will not be positive to a day or so—I

found him standing at his father's door—I had been looking for him several days—I had not been to his father's: I did sot think it was prudent to do so: he had seen an officer before and ran away—that was Dunaway—he is not here—I received my instructions from Messrs. Mullens, solicitors to the Bankers' Association.

COURT to MR. HERZOFF. Q. Was the prisoner in your service until he was apprehended? A. No; we sent him away some time before that—he left, I believe, in July—he was an honest boy to our knowledge—he was not very regular, and that was the reason we dismissed him.

ALEXANDER WATT (re-examined). I have now got my cheque-book—there are six missing—one has not been found.

The prisoner received a good character.

GUILTY of uttering.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury. Five Years' Penal Servitude.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-922
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

922. ALFRED HAY (38), GEORGE COLLIER (18) and HENRY WARD (21) , Stealing 1 watch, 1 chain, and 18s. 6d. in money, of John Harding, from his person.

MR. OPPENHEIM conducted the Prosecution and MR. LANGFORD defended Collier.

JOHN HARDING . On Thursday, 13th October, I went to Uxbridge with my master's cart—it was in the evening, about dusk; I don't know exactly what time—I went to Mrs. Holloway's beer-shop—when I went there I had a silver case watch, and a chain—the chain was brass dipped in silver, I believe—I also had 18s. 6d. in money in my breeches pocket—the watch was in my waistcoat pocket, attached to the chain—while I was sitting there the three prisoners came in together, close one after the other—I did not know them—two of them, Ward and Hay, came and sat down, by the side of me, and Collier sat at the other side of the room—I laid my head down on the table and went off to sleep—when I awoke I found myself outside the front door of the beer-shop—they dragged me up the yard—I did not see any one standing near me—Ward dragged me up the yard—he was alongside of me when I woke—I remained in the yard till the policeman came up to me—he said something to me, and I looked in my pockets—I found nothing at all—my watch, chain, and money were gone—this is my watch (produced)—this is the one I had with me when I went into the beer-shop.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you drink anything in the public-house? A. I had one drink of beer—I came to Uxbridge on that day—I had bought the watch on that same morning, and I lost it at night.

Ward. Q. Did I not pay for a pot of beer for you, because you said you had no money? A. No—I am sure I had 18s 6d in my pocket.

COURT. Q. When did you last see or feel it safe? A. When I went into the public-house—I was not tipsy—I had been drinking before I went in there—I was the worse for liquor.

HARRIET HOLLOWAY . My husband's name is Uriah Holloway, and he keeps the "Royal Oak" beer-shop in Uxbridge—on 15th October I saw the prosecutor in our tap—I did not see him or the prisoners come in—when I entered the room the prosecutor was sitting with his arm on the table and his head down, and Hay and Ward were sitting by the side of him, and Collier was on the other side of the table—I went to turn out of the room, and I saw Ward with his hand at the prosecutor's neck, lifting his watch-chain—I then went and communicated to my husband—he went and searched for the police—I went in again to the room and saw Ward with his hands round the prosecutor's neck, putting him out of the door—I said, "What are you

going to do with the lad?"—he said, "All right, he is a mate of mine; I am going to take him to Harefield"—I said, "What a disgraceful manner you are taking him out in; his pocket is turned inside out; and where is his watch?"—the other two—prisoners were then standing by the side—they were all standing together—I did not see the watch—they then all left together—Ward took the prosecutor out at the door, up the yard, and the other two followed.

Hay. Q. Where did I sit when I was in the tap-room? A. Just close to the prosecutor—you did not sit by the door in a chair.

COURT. Q. Did you see at all whether the prosecutor had any money? A. I did not see—they called for a pot of beer—I don't know who paid for it—my nephew took the beer in.

EDWARD ANDREWS (Policeman, T 300). On Thursday, 13th October, from information I received. I proceeded to the "Royal Oak" beer-shop in Uxbridge about 12 o'clock—I found the prosecutor lying in the Belmont-road—another constable went to the beer-house—he is not here, because he did not go after the prisoners—the prosecutor was drunk at the time I found him—I afterwards went in search of the prisoners—I took Hay into custody that same night—I told him the charge—he said he knew nothing about it, but on the way to the station he said that Collier had taken the watch and given it to Ward—I afterwards, on the same night, went and took Collier into custody—I told him the charge—he said he knew nothing about the robbery; he only assisted the other men in taking him up where I found him—he said he went up the chapel with him—I took Ward into custody next morning at half-past 8—I told him the charge—he first told me he knew nothing about the affair—I asked him to come down to Mrs. Holloway's, and I said I should take him into custody—on the way to the station he said that he had got the watch; that Hay, a short man, gave it to him—I took this watch (produced) out of his (Ward's) pocket.

Cross-examined. Q. How long have you known Collier? A. A little over. six years—I never knew anything against him—he has been working for a carpenter and builder—he was admitted to bail.

Hay. Q. Did I say that Collier had the watch? A. You told me that Collier took it.

Hay's Defence. I am innocent of the charge—I know nothing about it myself.

Ward's Defence. All I know is I had the watch given me—Mrs. Holloway has told two or three different tales.


WARD and HAY— GUILTY . Hay was further charged with having been before convicted of felony in September, 1848, to which he

PLEADED GUILTY.*— Confined Twelve Months.

WARD— Confined Three Months.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-923
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

Related Material

923. WILLIAM HEDGER (45) , Feloniously marrying Hannah Seymour, his wife Maria being then alive.

MR. KYDD conducted the Prosecution.

SUSANNAH MILLER . I am married, and reside with my husband at 51, Haversham-street—the prisoner is my brother—I know a person of the name of Maria Pellew—she was his first wife—I knew her and the prisoner living together as man and wife—I did not go with them to the church—I was a girl in service then, and during the time I was out on an errand I ran in to see them in the church—it was St. John's Church, Bethnal Green—I did not

stop to see the ceremony—I saw them standing before the altar—I afterwards knew them living together as man and wife, between eight and ten years—I cannot say the time they were married exactly, but I should say it was about nineteen years ago—the first wife is residing with me now—her name was Plume.

COURT. Q. You don't know whether it was eight or ten years they were living together? A. I can't say.

HANNAH SEYMOUR . I live at 53, Caroline-street—I know the prisoner—he went through the ceremony of marriage with me on 1st February, 1858, at St. Thomas's Church, Arbour-square—I have my marriage certificate with me—he lived with me afterwards, I think, about four years—he has been away from me three years on and off—I was not aware that he was married.

CHARLES FEENE (Policeman, H 39). I produce a copy of a marriage certificate—I have examined it with a book at St. John's Church, Bethnal Green—it is correct (Read)—"Marriage solemnized on 14th April, 1845; between William John Hedger, bachelor, and Maria Plume, spinster" I took the prisoner into custody—I told him the charge, and he did not deny it—he said he was married to the two of them—he used those words.

Prisoner's Defence. I have lived a most terrible life with this woman (the second wife)—she was living in adultery with a man for a week, and previous to that she stabbed me, and used to come home every night drunk—my first wife left me after living with me ten or eleven years and lived with another man, and I never saw anything of her till within the last six weeks for ten or eleven years.

GUILTY.—Strongly recommended to mercy by the Jury. Confined Nine Months.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-924
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

924. MARY ANN SMITH (18), and MARY ANN GROGAN (20) , Stealing 12 yards of linsey, value 7s., the property of Thomas John Watson; to which.

SMITH PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.

MARY ANN WATSON . I am the daughter of Eliza Watson, who keeps a haberdasher's shop at 33, Fore-street—on Saturday, 8th October, the prisoners came into our shop together—they asked the price of some prints at the door first—Grogan then asked for some stockings—I went round the counter, got some, and showed them to her—my mother came in about that time and said she had got nothing that would suit them—while the two prisoners were there a person named Griffiths came in and asked for some gilt buttons—I told her I had not any—she went away and came in again for some velvet buttons—my mother told her she had nothing to suit her—she went away, and then the two prisoners went away.

ELIZA WATSON . I am the mother of the last witness—on 8th October I came into my shop while the prisoners were there—Grogan was looking at some stockings—Smith appeared to be doing something at the end of the counter, but I could not tell what it was at the time, though I had my suspicions—I watched them, and then Griffiths came in—she was taken into custody and discharged—I told Grogan we had no stockings to suit her, and drew them away from her—they then left the shop—I went round the counter and found a piece of linsey of fifty-two yards on the floor underneath where Smith stood, and I missed a piece of linsey of twelve yards—the pieces were both together on the chair when Smith and Grogan came in—I had seen them safe a very short time before; it was a little after three then—this is the piece of linsey (produced).

ROBERT GEORGE JENNISON (City-policeman, 38). On 8th October I saw Smith in Fore-street, and took her into custody—as she was entering the station-house, this piece of linsey dropped from underneath her clothes.

CHARLES BAKER (City-policeman, 86). I apprehended Grogan about three-quarters of an hour after Smith was taken—I told her I was a detective officer, and she must consider herself in custody for stealing, in connexion with another person, a piece of linsey at 33, Fore-street—she said she knew nothing of it whatever—I took her to the station—Miss Watson was there, and identified her as being the person she had seen in the shop—Grogan refused her address.

MART ANN WATSON (re-examined). After the prisoners had left the shop and we missed the property, I followed them—I saw them walking together, talking—I took hold of Smith and asked her for the piece of linsey she had taken—Grogan crossed the road and went up Moor-lane—I asked Smith again for it, and she said she had not got it, Grogan had got it.

JURY to CHARLES BAKER. Q. Was any money found on them? A. No money was found on either of them.

Grogarcs Defence. I never knew Smith had the linsey—she knows I am not guilty.

GROGAN— GUILTY .†— Confined Twelve Months.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-925
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

925. WILLIAM NOBLE (21) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. M. J. O'CONNELL conducted the Prosecution. SUSANNAH SARAH WILSON. I am the wife of Edward Wilson, of the Anchor beer-shop, James-street, Limehouse—on the evening of 14th September, I served the prisoner with a glass of ale—he gave me a half-crown—I saw at once it was bad, and said, "How many more have you like this?" he said, "No more"—I said, "If you don't pay me for the ale, I shall give you in charge"—he gave me a good shilling, and I gave him 10 1l 2d. in copper change—I asked where he got the half-crown from—he said he took it in change of a five-shilling piece at a public-house called the Holy Well, in Shoreditch—he asked me to give it him back—I refused—he then left—I followed him, and gave him into custody of Gidley, and gave him the half-crown.

GUSTAVUS GIDLEY (Policeman, K 468). I received the prisoner in charge with the half-crown—I said, "Where did you get it from?"—he said, "At the Holy Well, Shoreditch"—I found on him two shillings, two sixpences, and elevenpence in copper, good money—he was remanded, and discharged on the 20th.

MART JANE ARTHUR . I am servant to Mrs. Wingrove, who keeps a dairy in Paul-street—the prisoner came there on the evening of 27th September for two eggs—he gave me a half-crown—I did not like the look of it and showed it to my mistress—she gave me directions—I went with it to a public-house, and showed it to a Miss Barton, saw her try it in the detector, and it bent—it was not out of my sight—I brought it back and gave it to Mrs. Wingrove, and told her in the prisoner's presence that it was bad.

MARY ANN WINGROVE . Arthur brought me the half-crown—I gave her directions—she went away with it, brought it back, and said in the prisoner's presence that it was bad—I gave it to my son at the counter, and he gave it to the policeman, who came almost directly.

FREDERICK PITE (Policeman, N 477); I received charge of the prisoner with the half-crown—the prisoner said he had met a friend the same day

who owed him 3s. 6d., and he had given him the half-crown and the shilling—I found 10 1l 2d. on him.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin to the Mint—these coins are both counterfeit.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-926
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

926. WILLIAM HENRY CHURCH (24), was indicted for a like offence.

MR. M. J. O'CONNELL conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY JOHN MORGAN . I am proprietor of the Arrow newspaper, at 23, Tavistock-street—on 13th September, the prisoner came there for a paper, and paid me with a five-shilling piece—I put it in my pocket—I had no other there—I afterwards tendered it myself and found it was bad—I then locked it in a desk in the office, separate from other coins—on 30th September, the prisoner came again, and purchased another number—he then gave me a florin—I handed it over to the man and told him to test it in the detector—it did not bend very quickly, but it was apparently bad—I had recognised the prisoner again the moment he came into the shop—a few minutes before, I had been looking at the crown-piece, and I showed it to the prisoner, with the florin, and said, "You know this"—he directly ran away as hard as he could—my man ran after him, and brought him back—I sent for a constable and gave him in charge, with the coins. EDWARD MARSH (Policeman, F 163). I was called, and took the prisoner into custody with the coins—I asked him if he had any money about him—he said he had not—I searched him in the shop and found nothing on him, but I found at the station a portmonnaie in the fob-pocket of his Waistcoat, containing 2s. 6d. in silver, and 6d. in copper. WILLIAM WEBSTER. These coins are bad.

Prisoners Defence. I got the florin by selling paper a I did not know it was bad. I was never in the shop before. The gentleman said at the station that he was almost sore I was the man, and next day he said I was the man.

HENRY JOHN MORGAN (re-examined). I said at the office I was almost sure he was the man, and I say now that he is the man—I recognised him directly.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months ,

The following prisoners PLEADED GUILTY:—

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-927
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

927. FREDERICK HUNTER (30) , to Unlawfully obtaining by false pretences from Charles Elliott 10 lbs weight of collodion, and 10 quires of paper, value 7l, with intent to defraud,— Confined Six Months. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-928
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

928. FRANCIS JAMES (34) , to Stealing 1 gold chain, the property of John Garland, after a former conviction in October, 1861.— Confined Twelve Months. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-929
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

929. EDWIN APPLETON BRADLEY (39) , to Stealing, while employed in the Post-office, 1 post-letter, the property of Her Majesty's Postmaster-General.— Five Years' Penal Servitude. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-930
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

930. WILLIAM EDWARD DUCROW (23) , to a like offence— Five Years' Penal Servitude. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-931
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

931. JAMES DIAMOND (17) . to Stealing 1 coat, 10 shawls, and 160 yards of alpaca, the property of James McKenzie Miall, his master— Confined Twelve Months; [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] and

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-932
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

932. GEORGE JAMES HAINES (22) , to Stealing 1 decanter, 2 forks, and other articles, the property of Smith Hastings, his master; and 1 bag, 2 bottles of wine, and other articles, the property of John Carter, his master— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Recommended to mercy. Confined Nine Months.

NEW COURT.—Monday, October 24th, 1864.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-933
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

933. ROBERT WILSON (34), was indicted for Unlawfully having counterfeit coin in his possession, with intent to utter it.

MESSRS. CRAUFURD and M. J. O'CONNELL conducted the Prosecution, and MR. ORRIDGE the Defence. JAMES BRANNAN. I am employed by the Mint—on 1st October, about 11. 30A. M. I went to the Champion beer-shop, Essex-street, Hoxton, in consequence of information, with a search-warrant—I saw the prisoner standing in front of the bar, and directed Inspector Brannan to seize him—I ran up stairs with the other officers, expecting to find his companions there—the prisoner was brought up, and while he was coming up Sergeant Leather said, "He is putting his hand in his pocket"—I said, "Do not let him," and the officers seized him on each side—he became exceedingly violent, kicked Sergeant Leather, and made a kick at me—I shifted out of his way, and said, "You scoundrel, you might have ruined me for life"—he said, "I did not intend it for you; I intended it for that b-who was going to put the bad money into my pocket," alluding to Leather—I saw him struggling on the floor, and saw Leather take from him two packets, which he handed to me, each containing ten counterfeit shillings—he also gave me a packet which he said he picked up on the floor—I said, "I have received instructions from the solicitor to the Mint to look after you, as an extensive dealer in counterfeit coin"—he said, "Lor, Mr. Brannan, I never had one in my life"—he was on the floor when the parcel was taken from his pocket—he became so exceedingly violent that they had to get him down—he kicked Leather on the knee—I opened the packets in his presence—they each contained ten counterfeit shillings, and the packet found on the floor contained ten counterfeit shillings separately wrapped up—Fife called my attention to a very large quantity of counterfeit coin which he found concealed under a form which gave way—he turned the form upside down by stepping on it, and there was this piece of wood temporarily nailed, from which one or two packets fell—the landlord of the house was taken in custody, but discharged—the packet contained counterfeit shillings of similar date to those found on the prisoner—he gave a false address.

Cross-examined by MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Have you the people here with whom he said that he lodged? A. No, but I went there—when he made the second kick at me, I intended to hit him on his foot with this little cane (produced), but he put his hand out, and it struck his hand; if I hurt him, I sincerely regret it—it was Fife who jumped on the form—that was fire minutes before the prisoner was thrown down—he was two or three minutes on the ground—the landlord was examined before the Magistrate, and twice remanded—I did not ask the prisoner to be searched before he was thrown down, because he kicked the sergeant down directly he entered the room—he was then knocked down by Leather and Elliott, but not with a staff—there was no weapon used except my stick—the coin was got from his pocket with great difficulty when he was down.

THOMAS LEATHER (Police-sergeant, O 6). I went with Brannan—I seized the prisoner—Brannan went up stairs, and ordered me to bring the prisoner—I took him up, and saw him put his hand to his left side—I caught hold of him—a small parcel fell from his hand which I picked up—he kicked me severely on the knee, and I feel it still—a struggle ensued, and I took two other packets from his left inside pocket, where I had seen him put something

—he kicked me and knocked me down—Elliott had hold of him at the same time—I handed the three packets to Mr. Brannan.

Cross-examined. Q. Did the prisoner follow you up stairs? A. I walked up first, and as soon as we got into the room the struggle took place—he did not begin it—I caught hold of him, because I thought he had something in his pocket.

ARTHUR ELLIOTT (Police sergeant, GIS ). I saw the prisoner Walk into the room—he kicked Sergeant Leather on the knee, who came down upon his knees, and I knocked the prisoner down—ho dropped a packet from his hand—I held him while Leather took the packets from his pocket.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you fall with him? A. Yes—I pushed him with my fist, and put my foot behind him—there were fifteen or twenty Stairs—the staircase was not dark.

MR. CRAUFURD. Q. Did you hear him say anything about Leather putting money into his pocket? A. Yes—Leather's trousers were cut through with the kick, and the blood oozed out—he kicked at Mr. Brannan as well—I did not see Leather put anything into the prisoner's pocket; but I saw him take something out.

JOHN FIFE (Police-inspector, G). I followed Mr. Brannan up stairs, and was there when the prisoner was brought into the room—I did not see him kick Leather, because there was a table between him and me—I upset a form, and four packets dropped from under it, containing one hundred and fourteen pieces of counterfeit coin in eight packets, which Were all wrapped up in one brown-paper parcel.

Cross-examined. Q. How came you to go upon that form? A. After I had searched the platform, I stepped—from it on to the form to get down, and it upset, or I should not have looked under it—this is a concert-room—there was no reason for not searching the prisoner below.

JAMES BRANNAN (Police inspector, F). I took the prisoner, and assisted in searching him—I found on him a watch, a chain, 6s. 10d. in silver, a pin, a knife, and other articles, which I gave up to him by the Magistrate's order.

Cross-examined. Q. Is there a room between the bar and the staircase? A. Yes, a bagatelle-room—the people in the bar were no doubt there for the purpose of getting counterfeit money—I know them to be dealers and utterers—they were customers at the beer-shop.

SERGEANT LEATHER (re-examined) I put nothing into the prisoner's pocket, neither had I anything.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin to Her Majesty's Mint—I have examined these coins—here are ten of 1817, ten others of 1817 in another packet, three of 1855, four of 1856, and one of 1857; the seven of 1855 and 1856 Were from the same mould; the next packet contains one of 1817, three of 1855, two of 1856, four of 1857; the next three of 1817, five of 1855, and two of 1857; those of 1817 are all from one mould, and those of 1857 from another mould; here are thirty-five shillings, twenty-nine half-crowns, and fifty florins, which were found under the form; only one packet of shillings bears upon the first thirty-fire; one packet contains one of 1817, two of 1855, three of 1856, and four of 1857, from the same mould as the others.

GUILTY. ** Five Years' Penal Servitude.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-934
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

934. ELIZABETH SCOTT (58) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. CRAUFURD and M. J. O'CÓNNELL conducted the Prosecution, and

MR. DALEY the Defence.

HENRY HOLMES . I am an omnibus conductor, and live at Kilburn-park-road—on 22d September the prisoner got into my omnibus at Kilburn, and said that that she wanted to be set down at King's College Hospital—at Tottenham-court-road she said, "I think I will get out here," and tendered me this sixpence, saying, "I think that is your fare;" I said, "No, it is not, it is fourpence," and handed her twopence—the moment I had it between my finger and thumb I found it was bad, and bent it double—I said, "This is bad, have you any more"—she took out another sixpence, and I bent that double also—I said, "Have you any more money about you?" she said, "No, that is all the money I have got"—I gave her in custody with the sixpences.

Cross-examined. Q. Would your fare have been sixpence if she had gone any further? A. Yes—I believe this hospital is somewhere in Chancery. Jane, and said that Chancery-lane would be her nearest point—I do not now know that it is not in Chancery-lane.

WILLIAM CLARK (Policeman, 57 E). The prisoner was given into my custody with these two sixpences—I asked her if she had got any more money; she said, "No;" after fumbling in her pocket some time she pulled out this good sixpence—I took her to the station, and the female searcher found 3s. 7d. in copper upon her, which she handed to me—I searched the floor of the cell the same night with the female searcher, and found this good sixpence (produced).

Cross-examined. Q. I thought you said that she pulled out the sixpence after fumbling? A. I did say so, but it was a mistake of mine; nothing of the kind happened; the sixpence was found in the cell.

SARAH WHITE . I was in attendance at the station, as female searcher, when the prisoner was brought in—she tried to conceal something in her hand which she took from her pocket—I asked what she had, and she gave me 3s. 7d. in copper—I saw that there was something in her other hand which she dropped on the floor; I asked her what it was; she said, "Only a halfpenny, it is no use looking for it, you will find it in the sawdust, you need not look for it"—I searched with my hand, and got A broom and swept the sawdust away; Clark then picked up a good sixpence—the prisoner said that her daughter gave her the halfpence.

Cross-examined. Q. Is it usual to search females with an officer in the room? A. No; the officer was outside the door—I called him in after I had searched her.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These coins are both bad.

GUILTY .—She was further charged with having been before convicted in April, 1862, to which she

PLEADED GUILTY. ** Five Years' Penal Servitude.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-935
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude

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935. MICHAEL M'DONALD (32), and ELLEN SHIPCOTT (39), were indicted for a like offence.

MR. CRAUFURD conducted the Prosecution. JOB MARSHALL. I am shopman to Mr. Durden, a cheesemonger, of Great Chapel-street, Westminster—on 10th September Shipcott came in with a shawl over her head, but no bonnet, and asked for three penny worth of eggs, she gave me a bad half-crown, which I passed to Mr. Hill, saying in the prisoner's hearing, "This is not worth much"—I asked the prisoner where she got it from—she said, "My husband gave it me"—I gave it back to her; she left the eggs and went away—Mr. Hill followed her—in about ten minutes M'Donald came in for some rashers which were outside the door, which came to three pence-halfpenny—he gave me a bad half-crown

—Mr. Hill had then come back and was in the shop—I said, "This is one of the old sort"—he said that he had taken it and wanted to have it back, but Mr. Greenwood came in with a constable, and gave him in charge with the half-crown.

Shipcott. Q. When you said that you did not like the look of it, did not I say, "Try it again? A. No.

HENRY HILL . I am a pork-butcher, of 8, Bell-street, Westminster—I was in Mr. Durden's shop when the woman come in—I saw the half-crown; it was bad—she took it out of my hand, and left the shop—I followed her round the corner, went on the opposite side of the way, and saw her go to the "Angel" public-house, nearly opposite to Mr. Durden's; she there took the shawl off her head, and put her bonnet on—I pointed her out to Mr. Greenwood, and went to Mr. Durden's shop—M'Donald gave a half-crown, which was shown to me, and the prisoner wanted it back—I said to Marshall, "Keep this"—a constable came, and he was given in charge.

JAMBS GREENWOOD . I manage Mr. Durden's shop—I was at the "Angel" between 8 and 9 o'clock, and Mr. Hill pointed out Shipcott to me, who was tying her bonnet on; her sister was there, and the male prisoner—they were in front of the bar—there is a partition—I was in the private bar, and they were on the other side—from information I received I watched them out, and then saw Shipcott's sister pass something into M'Donald's hand—she said, "Now go in, there is no one in the shop"—she stood directly opposite the shop door—Shipcott went on about ten yards and stopped, and M'Donald went into the shop—I had previously spoken to Sergeant Butler—I gave M'Donald in custody, and then went with Butler after Shipcott—I had seen the prisoners together about 3 o'clock.

PRICE (Policeman, 314 B) I took Shipcott in Dacre-street—on the way to the station she said, "You are b-y well licked this time"—she said that she lived at Hermes-hill—nothing was found on her Shipcott. Q. Do you know me? A. No—you asked me what I was taking you for, I said that I did not know, you must come to the station; you said that you would scratch my eyes out.

EDWARD SLIMPSON (Woolwich Dock-yard Policeman), I took M'Donald, and received this half-crown—I told him the charge; he said that he received it from a man for work he had done—he gave no address.

ROBERT HOWE . I am assistant in a baker's shop in Great Chapel-street—on 10th September Shipcott came in for a half-quartern loaf which came to three pence—she gave me a bad shilling—I told her it was bad, broke it, and gave it to her—she said that she took it at Pimlico, and left—I saw the prisoners together twice on the next Monday.

M'Donald. Q. Did you see me with her when she came to your shop? A. No.

Shipcott Q. Did not you break the shilling, and did not I then give you, another for which you gave me nine pence change? I A. No; it is false.

WILLIAM WBBSTEB . This half-crown is bad. M'Donald Defence. Is it feasible that if I was engaged in an act of this kind with this woman I should go directly and tender a piece at the very same shop which had a minute before detected her I Am I to be implicated, because I was with her eight hours before? I do not know what passed between her and her sister; she is a perfect stranger to me.

Shipcott's Defence. If I was aware it was a bad half-crown, is it likely I should stand almost opposite the shop if I had known that this man had been in there? does it stand to reason?

GUILTY .—They were each charged with a previous conviction, M'Donald, in the name of George Andrews, in August, 1863, when he was sentenced to one year's imprisonment; and Shipcott, in September, 1860, of feloniously uttering counterfeit coin, in the name of Ellen Graham, when she was sentenced to four years' penal servitude; to this they each


M'DONALD.— Five Years Penal Servitude.

SHIPCOTT.**— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

The following prisoners PLEADED GUILTY:—

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-936
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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936. MARY SMITH* (26) , to Feloniously uttering counterfeit coin— Confined Eighteen Months. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-937
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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937. ELIZABETH JOHNSON ( ), to a like offence— Confined Eighteen Months. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-938
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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938. GEORGE COLEMAN (16) , to Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin— Confined Twelve Months. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-939
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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939. GEORGE SAUNDERS ** (64) , to a like offence.— Confined Two Years. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

OLD COURT.—Tuesday, October 25th, 1864.

Before Mr. Recorder.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-940
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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940. EDWARD CARLTON (32), was indicted for Stealing 40 yards of linsey, of Richard Laxton, and another.

WILLIAM LANGFORD . I am a warehouseman, of 15, Addle-street—on the afternoon of 18th October, I was passing through Friday-street, within three or four yards of Mr. Lax ton's doorway, and saw the prisoner come out with this linsey (produced)—knowing the porter there for many years I went in, and in consequence of what was told roe I followed the prisoner—I overtook him at the corner of Gutter-lane, Cheapside, and told him him he most come back with me to the warehouse where he bad brought the goods from—he seemed quite astonished that I should stop him, and made some statement which I cannot now recollect—when I got him back to the warehouse he said a gentleman had given to him to carry—he did not say where—I saw him actually come out with it on his back.

Prisoner. Q. How long have you been in your present employ? A. Five years—I know the customs of the City very well—it is a common practice for men to obtain a living by carrying parcels from different warehouses if they are employed there, whether they are employed as porters or not—I did not see any person give you the linsey—I did not see you inside the warehouse; I saw you come out of the doorway—a person might have given you the linsey without my seeing it—when I stopped you you made no objection to returning to the warehouse—you went back willingly—I have seen lots of persons come out of warehouses with goods, but goods sent out are mostly tied up in paper; this was not—I have before this stopped a person with goods, and he had three months—that may be five or six years ago—my previous employment was with Mr. Garsyth—I left to better myself.

HENRY WRIGHT LAXTON . I am manager to Richard Laxton and another—I was at the warehouse on 18th October, about a quarter to 5—the prisoner was brought in by the last witness, carrying this piece of linsey—we had two pieces of that colour, we have hut one now—I had seen the two pieces safe about 2 o'clock that day standing opposite the door, about four feet from it—I had not noticed them since—this is worth about 3l.5s.—I do not know the prisoner—he had no authority to carry this—we never send out goods except in paper or canvas wrappers.

Prisoner. Q. Is your warehouse a large or small one? A. Small—I was in the counting-house, about twelve feet from the door—I was six or eight feet from the pile of cloth from which this was taken—the glass in the counting-house is ground glass—I could not see through it—if I had got up I could see anybody come in, but I was over some books.

The prisoner in his defence stated that he was employed by a gentleman to carry the goods to Gresham-street

GUILTY .—He was further charged with having been before convicted at this Court, in May, 1861.To this he

PLEADED GUILTY. **— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-941
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment; Imprisonment > other institution

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941. RICHARD NEWBURY (15), and WILLIAM SMITH (13) , Stealing 4 chains, value 21l., the property of James Thomas Chapman, from the person of George Gilby Dickenson.Second Count, receiving the same.

GEORGE IZOD (City-policeman, 251). On 5th October, about twenty minutes to 5, I was in Little Britain, and saw the prisoners there—I heard Newbury say to a cabman, "Give me my chain?"—I went up, and asked what chain it was—he said it was a chain the other one, pointing to Smith, bad picked up—the cabman was coming along, and I held up my hand to him to stop, and he handed me this chain—I asked Smith if he was quite sure he had found it—he said, "Yes; in this bag," producing this leather bag—and Newbury said that he saw him—I felt dissatisfied, and took them into custody.

GEORGE GILBY DICKENSON . I am errand-boy to Mr. Chapman, jeweller of Thavie's-inn—a little after 3 o'clock, on the afternoon of 5th October, I had a paper parcel given me to carry to Mr. Lewis in Charles-street—I did see what was in it—I put it in my left-band pocket—I went along Farringdon-road—I had my hand on the parcel in my pocket—three boys came up, and struck me—the prisoners were neither of those three—I did not see them—to avoid the blows, I pot up my hand, which had been on the parcel, and felt the parcel taken away—there were a good many boys about—I saw; Smith in the crowd—they shifted the parcel from one to another—I ran after them to try to get it—I pursued West, the boy who took it, into a doorway—I was stopped by the others, and he got away—he was afterwards taken, and discharged.

Smith. Q. You were down in the ruins; you were not up on the pavement at all.A. I ran down into the ruins where they were.

JAMES THOMAS CHAPMAN . I am a jeweller in Thavie's-inn-Dickensoir was in my employment—this part was given to him, by my direction, to take to Clerkenwell—the value of it was about 20l.—this chain is worth 8l.

ISAAC WEBB . I am a cabman—on 5th October, I was with my cab in Little Britain—Newbury came up to me, and asked if I would stand half a crown for this chain—I said, "No; I will stand a shilling for it"—he said, "No"—I gave it to the policeman—there were two other little hoys with him; I did not notice them.

Smith's statement before the Magistrate;—"I wish to say that William West took the parcel out of the boy's pocket; he showed it to some more boys, and we all make a scuffle after it. They ran up George-alley into a passage with the parcel, and then some more boys struck the boy, and the boy went away from us."

GUILTY of receiving.

NEWBURY.*— Confined Three Months.

SMITH.**— Confined One Month, and Three Years in a Reformatory.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-942
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

942. EDWARD FLATMAN (28), and WILLIAM LOOKER (36) , Stealing 28 stoves, and other goods, of James Yates and others, the masters of Flat Mann.Second Count, feloniously receiving the same.

FLATMAN PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

MR. GIFFARD conducted the Prosecution, and MR. OPPENHEIM the, Defence, CHARLES CARDER. I am a porter and warehouseman in the service of James Yates and others—Flatman was also a porter and warehouseman in the same establishment—I do not know Looker—I have seen him at my masters' warehouse—I saw him there on 23d September, between 1 and 2 o'clock—Flatman was attending upon him—they were weighing up some metal—they weighed two sets of elliptic-stove metal, two sets of register-stove metal, and one set of kitchen-range metal—I delivered that to Looker by Flatman's direction—I saw the metal put in a cart that was standing at the warehouse door—I did not see any money pass between Flatman and Looker—after I had weighed the metal, the prisoners went tgether into the counting-house—and I believe he had two iron traps in his hand when he went away—he carried them—these are them (produced)—I had not weighed them—they were not included in the other things that were weighed—I afterwards went to Looker's premises at Stepney—a great quantity of new stove-metal was found there, from 15cwt. to 20cwt—I examined it to see whether there were private marks of our firm on it—it must have been at our premises within a month or or five weeks; it looked quite new—there was the bloom upon it.

Cross-examined. Q. Was Looker in the habit of doing business with your masters' firm? A. Yes; he had been there several times to purchase things—it was not Flatman's business to take money from the purchaser—one of the clerks took the money.

THOMAS WILLIAM GILBERT . I am a clerk in the prosecutors' service—on the afternoon of 23d September, the prisoners came to the counting-house window—they were close together; each could hear what the other said—, Flatman came and desired that an entry should be made for two cast-iron traps, weighing 9 lbs., for which he desired an invoice to be made for Looker to pay—I made out the invoice, and took the value, 1s.3d., from Looker—they then went down the warehouse, and I saw no more of them—it is the practice for the warehouseman to bring the customer to me, state the amount, and I take the money, and he puts his initials to the transaction—he did not on that occasion give me any account of registered-stove metal, elliptic-stove metal, or kitchen-range metal—the value of the metal depends upon the weight and size—the smallest register-stove metal is from about 10s. to 15s—the kitchen-range metal that he had would be worth about 1l.—altogether it would be worth about 2l.5s.—I have the book here—there is no entry of any transaction, but the traps.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you make out all the invoices of the goods sold by your firm? A. Not all—I may have seen Looker there before, I can't say—a great many persons are in the habit of coming daily, and purchasing iron—I could not undertake to swear to Looker. COURT. Q. Did Flatman tell you, in the other's hearing, in what name to make out the invoice? A. No; it was such a small thing—metal is sometimes sold on credit—Looker had no account with us.

MICHAEL YOUNG . I am manager to the prosecutors—in consequence of information, I spoke to Flatman on the afternoon of 23d September—the course of business, in a ready-money transaction, is thus:—the metal is weighed up, a weight-note is taken up to the counting-house—the initials of

the person who weighs the metal are put to the entry in the order-book—an invoice is then made out by the clerk, and the money is paid at the counting-house, and the goods delivered—later in the afternoon of 23d September, I went to Looker's premises—he keeps a shop as a stove-fitter, or something of that sort, in Roadswell-road, Stepney—the officers, Layland and Witney, went with me—Witney went in first—I did not hear what passed in the first instance—the first I heard was Looker said that he had got more metal than he had paid for—I think he said he had not been in Thames-street that day—I was afterwards at the Bow-lane Station when Flatman and Looker were confronted—Flatman said to him, "Did not you give me half a sovereign, and say you would bring the remainder of the money on Monday morning?"—further conversation was stopped by the Inspector—I did not hear any reply.

GEORGE WITNEY (City-policeman 497). On 23d September I went with Mr. Young and Layland to Looker's premises—he was out when we first got there—he came in in a few minutes—I told him I was an officer, and was going to put a few questions to him—he could do as he liked about answering them—I said, "Have you been to Thames-street to-day?"—"No, I have not"—I said, "Are you sure you have not?"—he said, "Yes"—I then said, "When were you there last?"—he said, "Yesterday"—I said, "When were you at the Rotherham?"—that is the name the prosecutors' premises go by—he said he was there yesterday—I said, "Are you quite sure you were not there to day?"—he said, "Well, yes, I was"—I then asked what be bad brought away from there—he said "Metal"—I asked what he paid for it—he said he did not recollect—I asked if he had any invoice—he said, "I had one, but I destroyed it—he said, "I have not paid enough for what I fetched away; no more I have for the last few lots that I fetched away; I have not paid enough by a great deal"—I asked if he had given the man who served him with the metal any money besides what he had paid at the counting-house—he said, "No"—I said, "Did you give him half a sovereign?"—he would not answer that question—he turned round to go to the back part of the premises—I told him to remain where he was—he said, "I am only going out to pump ship; you can come too"—I followed him into the yard at the rear of the house—when I got into the yard, I lost sight of him entirely, it being very dark there, and no lights about—I next saw him on the top of the wall—he got over, and ran away—I followed, and caught him 400 or 500 yards away—I brought him back to his shop, and told him I should charge him with receiving a quantity of iron, well knowing the same to be stolen—he said he did not understand me—he then repeated several times that he had fetched away a great more than he had paid for—that he had not paid enough for it.

Cross-examined. Q. When you asked him what he had brought away from the Rotherham, you say he said, "Metal?" A. Yes—he did not add, "but I can't tell you what exactly;" I do not recollect those words—I asked what he paid for it—he said, "I paid what they charged, but it was not enough."

WILLIAM BRITTAIN . I am a builder, of 20, Woolmer-street, Bow-common—I produce an invoice of some stoves purchased from Looker, on 20th August, for 12l.11s.81/2 d.—they were fixed at 1, 2, and 3, Edward-street, Bow Common.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you in the habit of dealing with him for stoves? A. No—I believe I paid a fair price for everything I had of him.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Do you know what the price of these articles is? A. Yes; I have the prices here, which are not so much as I paid—these are Clark and Hunt's prices as advertised—it is the same sort of thing—I did not tell Looker where he was to go for them—he went where he liked.

JOHN SIMMONS . I am a licensed victualler, at Bow-common—I also do some building—I produce an invoice of some stoves purchased of Looker for 7l.16s.8d.—they are set in Nos.5 and 6, Walker-street, Bow-common—he asked me for an order for them.

Cross-examined, Q. Did you give a fair and proper price for them? A. Yes—I gave more than the price.

BENJAMIN BOTTOMLEY . I am a corn-dealer, of 14, Roadswell-terrace, Stepney—I know Looker by living in the neighbourhood, and Flatman by seeing him at the warehouse when I have been there—I have occasionally let my cart to Looker, and have occasionally gone with it—on Friday, 23d September, I went with Looker to the prosecutors' premises, and brought away a quantity of metal; I should think something like 3 cwt. or 31/2 cwt.—t was delivered at Looker's house—I have been there on other occasions and taken metal in the same way—Flatman and the porter generally loaded the cart—I carted five or six stoves for Looker to Mr. Simmons's—I don't know whether they came from the Rotherham—I carted them from Looker's house.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you in the habit of going to the Rotherham for Looker to cart metal for him? A. Yes, about once a week, or perhaps once a fortnight, for the last three months.

ANDREW PHILLIPS . I am salesman in the prosecutor's service—I visited the houses that have been mentioned, in Edward-street and Walker-street Bow-common, and looked at the stoves there—I identified them as being the prosecutors' patterns—in Mr. Brittain's invoice 1l.4s. is charged for a range with oven and boiler, the wholesale net price of which is 1l. 9s., and foranother 18s., the wholesale value of which is 1l.4s.—those are the only two that I can say are undercharged; they are all slightly undercharged, but nothing very material—in Mr. Simmons's invoice there is a stove charged at 12s.6d., the wholesale price of which is 18s.

Cross-examined. Q. How many stoves altogether are charged for in these two invoices? A. Twenty-six—the patterns are identical with ours; they are of a peculiar description, sufficiently different from others for me to identify them—I can swear that the metal came from our premises—we cast the metal; the loose pieces from which the stoves are made.

LOOKER— GUILTY of receiving. Five Years' Penal Servitude.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-943
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

943. HENRY PURDY (21), and HENRY HEIM (18) , Robbery with violence on Abraham Benn, and stealing from him 2l. 16s., his moneys.

MR. LANGFORD conducted the Prosecution, MR. COLLINS the Defence.

ABRAHAM BENN . I am servant to my father, who is a horse-slaughterer—I reside at Hanworth, in Middlesex—on the night of 5th October I went to the Swan public house, at Hanworth, and stopped there till about 12 o'clock-Purday, Heim, Gatwell, and several more were then in the tap-room together—they all came out, and I went to the bar and had a drop of gin—I then counted my money and put it in this red bag (produced)—I counted 2l.16s.; 1l. in gold, and the other in silver—I put the red bag in my cash-pocket, wished the landlord "good night," and went on my road home—I saw five or six of them standing talking under a tree against the

Swan—when I got between the Swan and the Bear, Purdy cornea and knocks me down, and he then kneels on me, and held me down from behind, and filled my mouth full of sand and grass—Heim then took the money from my pocket—this was somewhere about a hundred yards from the Swan, opposite the house of a Mrs. Heath—I managed to call "Murder!" once, and Mrs. Heath came out and pulled the prisoners off me, and helped me up—they then ran away—I was on the ground about a quarter of an hour—he was knocking me about before he could find where my money was, turning me over several times, and beating my head against the ground—Heim was there all the time—I lost 2l.16s.—they took it away and left the red bag in the road—I afterwards picked it up and gave it to the constable—lie picked up a three penny-piece and two pence, and my comb—I am sure the prisoners are the men.

Cross-examined. Q. Where do you live? A. On the Hounslow-road—it is in Han worth parish, about a quarter of a mile from the Swan inn—I had been to town on that day—I left home at 9 in the morning and got to town at 1—I went to the Butchers' Arms to receive some money, had a pint of ale there, and then went to Mr. Bull's, at Twickenham, and had my dinner and another pint of ale, and thou went on to the Swan—I got there about 3 o'clock—I went into the tap-room—I had about a couple of pints there—I was perfectly sober—I was not sitting there till 12 at night—I went home and came back to the Swan in the evening, about 7 o'clock—it was my father's money that I received—I did not pay it to him when I got home, because I told him I was going down to the Swan to pay one of Mr. Farmer's men 45s. for a dead horse we had—Mr. Farmer is a brewer—I went back to the Swan, but the man did not some—it was then I bad the two pints of beer, after I saw my father—it was very dark that night—there were not above a dozen people in the Swan—a man named Gatskill was there; he was discharged before the Magistrate—there are plenty of hedges near the Swan, and near where I was knocked down—the tree was not far from where I was knocked down; I received a blow first, and was then pulled backwards—I saw Purdy's face when he was on top of me—he kept jobbing my head on the ground. till he got me tight, so that I could not move—Heim came on close to him—I could hear some one else there, but could not see him—I called out once as well as I could, and then the woman came out and pulled them off, and she called out—she bad as good an opportunity of seeing who they were as I—I have never lost any money before, or said that I had—I once got into trouble for being tipsy, that is all—I am not often in the habit of getting tipsy—I never took any of my brother's money by mistake when I was tipsy; I was charged with it—my brother said I had broken open a box of his and stole 4l, and he got into a mess about it.

MR. LANGFORD. Q. When you got up to Mr. Farmer's, did the people tell you to go on to the Swan? A. Yes; I went there to meet the man to pay him for the horse, and he never came—I was not tipsy on this evening—I am certain these are the two men.

COURT. Q. Had you known them previously? A. Yes, ever since they were born and bred.

MARY ANN HEATH . I am married, and live at Hanworth, near the Swan—on the night of Wednesday, 5th October, I was waiting up for my husband—I was going to bed and I heard a noise, and then a second noise—I opened the door, went out, and listened—I could not see any one—I went to the gate and saw something struggling—I ran across the-road, and saw

two men, one a little taller than the other—one was holding Mr. Benn down and the other was leaning over him—directly I tried to get him up, he tried to call "Murder!" and I hallooed also—he seemed as if he had got something in his mouth.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you pull the men off? A. I put one on one side—I was quite close to them; it was very dark—I thought it was my husband, and said, "Oh, my dear, come in-doors," and just at that moment my husband heard my voice, and came up—I could not say whether the prosecutor was drunk or not, I was so frightened.

JOHN BANKS (Policeman, V 78). On the night of Wednesday, 5th October, about 12 o'clock, I was on duty near the Swan Jnn at Han worth—it is a very scattered village—I saw the two prisoners come out of the Swan at that time, and six more with them; they stood talking on the Swan-green—I saw Benn come out and go towards his home—Heim had a horse and cart outside the Swan, which he took to a pond, and left the pony drinking—seven of them followed the prosecutor on the road towards his home; one turned off towards Hampton—the prisoners and five others followed the prosecutor, and about two minutes afterwards I heard a peculiar noise, but could not exactly tell what it was—I recognised the voice of Benn, and heard Mrs. Heath call out almost immediately afterwards—I then saw the two prisoners come to the horse and cart; they drove up the village, and the prosecutor followed them saying, "I will have you both locked up"—he was some distance from me then—the prisoners drove to the Half Moon beerhouse—I followed them, and saw Benn outside the Half Moon—he then told me what had occurred, and he gave the prisoners into ray custody—I went down the yard and told them they were charged with knocking Benn down and robbing him of his money—I searched them, and found no money on either of them—I afterwards took them to the place where the assault was committed, opposite Mrs. Heath's house—I looked on the ground and found a three penny-piece, two pence, and a comb—I saw Benn pick up a red bag and give it to another constable, who was with me—the pond is about twenty yards from the Swan—Benn was decidedly the worse for drink—he could walk straight and talk coherently, but he was decidedly the worse for liquor.

Cross-examined. Q. He had been drunk? A. He had, and was then muddled—I took the prisoners about five minutes after I heard the noise—I searched one and my brother constable the other; the other men went straight away home—the Half Moon is about 800 yards from where the robbery took place—they were taking the pony out of the cart in the yard when I took them—I saw them in the company of Gatskill after the robbery; I did not know a robbery had been committed then—he was searched at the station; nothing was found upon him—I took him into custody at his house.—The prisoners received good characters.


24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-944
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

944. THOMAS WEST (20), WILLIAM PAYNE (27), and EDWARD KEMP (18) , Robbery with violence on James Andrews, and stealing from him a handkerchief, 15s. in money, and a glazier's diamond, his property.

MR. BEST conducted the Prosecution, and MR. CAMPBELL defended Kemp.

JAMES ANDREWS . I am a painter and glazier, at Hounslow—on Saturday night, 8th October, between 11 and 12, I went into the White Hart public-house, at Whitton—I there saw the three prisoners—I had something to drink, and in order to pay for it I took out my pocket-handkerchief, in which my money was wrapped—I untied it, and took a 2s. piece out in their presence—I should think I had between 15s. and 1l. in my handkerchief

when I went in; near 1l. I dare say—it was safe when I came out of the public-house—I might have been there three-quarters of an hour—I left, and Payne accompanied me to a place called the Rifle-butts—I was there met by West and Kemp—West knocked me down, and Kemp took my money that was in the handkerchief, and the handkerchief as well—I had a basket with me with my tools in it, and the handkerchief was in the basket—there was also a diamond there, wrapped up in paper; that went too—West and Kemp jumped over the hedge into a field, and Payne went down by the brookside—Payne did not assist the others, and he did not assist me—I was only struck once—the blow gave me a black eye; it was a severe blow—I cried out "Murder!" and "Police!" and a policeman came up—I made a complaint to him.

Cross-examined. Q. Was this Saturday evening pay-day? A. Yes—the money was what I had received for wages—I received it in the Black Dog, at Twickenham—I had perhaps two pints of half-and-half to drink; no gin or rum—I never touch spirits—I might have had a pint of beer where I had my wages—I was sober when I left the White Hart—I was not the worse for liquor—I had nothing out of the way to make me drunk—I received my wages between 6 and 7—I consider I was sober when I left the White Hart—I was quite capable of walking—I have known Kemp two years by sight—he and I were on friendly terms; we never had any fall-out—I have known nothing against him—he has always been a well-conducted young man, as far I am aware of—there were five or six others besides him at the White Hart—I will not swear I did not have more than two pints of beer—I did not take notice of how much I had.

MR. BEST. Q. Were you sober enough to walk straight and see that these wore the men? A. Yes; I am quite sure they are the men—I knew them all by sight previously.

RICHARD POUND (Policeman, T 237). On the night in question I was on duty in Whitton Dean, and I heard some one try to call out about 200 or 300 yards from me; it sounded within ten yards of the Rifle-butt—I went up to the place, and found Andrews on his face on the ground, bleeding very much from the mouth and nose—I raised him up and he made a complaint to me—on the next day, Sunday, I apprehended West—I found blood in three places on his trousers—I charged him with being concerned with two more in assaulting James Andrews, and robbing him of 15s. and a glazier's diamond—he said he saw him in the White Hart on Saturday night, but he did not accompany him to Hounslow.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you known the prosecutor some time? A. Yes—he is not a man addicted to drink—I think he was stunned from the blow—I don't think he was in drink; he knew me directly—I could not swear he had had no drink—he had a dreadful blow in the eye—it was nearly closed then—I took him to the station and washed him, and he went home—I know Kemp—I have never known much of him—I never knew anything against him; I only knew him about that neighbourhood.

WILLIAM NORTHOVER (Policeman, T 258). I apprehended Payne on Sunday morning between 11 and 12, just by Hounslow-station—I told him I should take him in custody for being concerned with two others in robbing the prosecutor at Whitton Dean—he said first he knew nothing about it; he was not there—I asked him if he bad accompanied the prosecutor round Whitton Dean—he at first said, "No," and then he said he did not go with him more than ten yards from the house—I took him to the station.

THOMAS BOLTON (Policeman, T 104). I took Kemp between 4 and 5 on

Sunday afternoon, 9th October, at his own house—I charged him with being concerned with two others in robbing James Andrews at Whitton Dean—he said he saw the prosecutor at the White Hart, but he never saw him at Whitton Dean.

Payne's Defence. I know nothing about it; I was at the White Hart about twenty minutes. I know nothing about robbing the man.

WEST— GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

PAYNE— GUILTY .*— Confined Twelve Months.

KEMP— GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-945
VerdictNot Guilty > directed

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945. THOMAS EDGAR (41) , Feloniously marrying Mary Ann Giband, his wife Elizabeth being alive.

MR. DALEY conducted the Prosecution. In this case the Court considered títere was no evidence of the first marriage.


24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-946
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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946. JOHN MITCHELL (30) , Stealing a locket, the property of Elizabeth Ann Penn, from her person.

ELIZABETH ANN PENN . I was staying at 17, Frederick-place, Mile-end—on 21st September, I was in Cheapside, with two ladies, waiting to cross—I heard my locket snap, and said to the prisoner, who was close to my side, "You have got my locket"—I took hold of his hand, and saw my locket drop from it—a gentleman came up and laid him—this (produced) is my locket.

JAMES HARRIS . I am a traveller of 1l, Pancras-lane—I was standing at Queen-street Cheapside, on this day waiting to cross the road—I was behind the prosecutrix, the prisoner was standing close to her side—he was in the act of working at her side, fumbling at something, and I distinctly saw him with the locket in his hand; he snapped it away from the chain—I seized him directly and he dropped it on the ground—a gentleman came up, and we secured him—he was very violent.

Prisoner's Defence. There was a great stoppage in Cheapside. I saw a gentleman to all appearance fumbling at the lady's dress, and I heard something snap. The lady caught hold of me, but I know nothing about it. I am a cripple in my hand, and how could I take it?

GUILTY.** Five Years' Penal Servitude.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-947
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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947. HENRY WILLIAM SPENCER (27) , PLEADED GUILTY to Stealing, whilst employed in the Post-office, two post letters, the property of Her Majesty's Postmaster-General.— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-948
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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948. THOMAS RAWLINSON (36) , to Stealing 2,442 handkerchiefs, 540 ties, and other goods, the property of Richard Beall and others, his masters.— Confined Eighteen Months. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-949
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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949. And HENRY NORRIS (22) , to Stealing 4 lbs. of brass rule and other goods, the property of Benjamin Fox and another, his mothers.— Confined Nine Mouths [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

NEW COURT.—Tuesday, October 25th, 1864.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-950
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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950. ELLEN FISHER (19) , PLEADED GUILTY to unlawfully concealing the birth of her child. Confined Four Months.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-951
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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951. CHARLES FLYNN (18) , unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. CRAUFURD conducted the Prosecution.

Moss JACOBS. My father deals in secondhand clothes, at 113, Great Saffron-hill, and I serve in the shop—on September 26th, I served the prisoner with a pair of boots, which came to 2s.6d; he gave me a half-crown—directly he left I found it was bad, and put it away—next day he came again—I knew him directly—he asked for a pair of trousers for 5s—I showed him a pair, and he said he would not give more than half a crown for them—thinking he might have some more, I said that I would take his money—he said, "Perhaps you will say that that is a bad one," and threw a bad half-crown on the counter—I spoke to him about the first half-crown, and he said he took it at Brook's in the market—I gave him custody with the coins.

ALFRED BEALES (Policeman, G 154). I took the prisoner, and received these two half-crowns (produced)—I told him the charge, and asked him whether he passed the half-crown—he said, "Yes"—I said, "Where did you get it?—he said, "From a butcher's in Newgate-market this morning"—I said, "Did you buy a pair of boots?"—he said, "Yes"—I said, "What did you give for them?—he said, "Half a crown"—I said, "Is this it?—he made no reply—I searched him in the shop, but only found two pawn tickets—he said in the waiting-room, before we went before the Magistrate, "I may as well tell you the truth, I passed the first half-crown; I knew it was a bad one, and I hope I shall get five years like my brother; but before I tell you where I got them from, I would rather die".

Prisoner. I never said so.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin to Her Majesty's Mint—these two half-crowns are bad, and from the same mould.

Prisoner's Defence. I went over to Westminster to my father and met Samuel Wakefield—he told me to meet him in an hour—I did so, and he paid me a half-crown, which turned out bad; the other one I took in Newgate-market of a butcher.

GUILTY . He was further charged with having been before convicted of a like offence at this Court, in July, 1863, and sentenced to Nine Months' Imprisonment, to which lie

PLEADED GUILTY.— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-952
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

952. JOHN KENNEDY (30), was indicted for a like offence.

MR. CRAWFURD conducted the Prosecution. EMMA WILSON. My father keeps the Wheatsheaf, Walham-green, and I serve in the house—on Sunday evening, 2d October, about half-past 5 o'clock, the prisoner came with two men, one of whom asked for a pot of beer, which came to four pence; he paid with a good half-sovereign—I gave him the change and put the half-sovereign in another till—in about ten minutes the prisoner asked for half a pint of rum, which came to a shilling, and gave me a half sovereign—I called to father, who was in the cellar, to change it—he came up, I handed it to him, and he told the prisoner it was bad—he said that he did not know it—the prisoner was a little tipsy, but not very—he was given in charge.

Prisoner. Q. Did I not put the half-sovereign on the bar while I spoke to Kennedy, my companion? A. No—Michael Kennedy was with you.

THOMAS WILSON . I am the father of the last witness—I was in the bar when the first liquor was called for by Harrington, one of the other men—my daughter served him, and I gave change for a good half-sovereign—I then went into the cellar, and my daughter called me and handed me the coin—I looked at it, wetted it, and said, "I cannot cash this, to my belief it is a bad one"—the prisoner said that he was not aware of it; he had

been working at Freeman and Burt's, and lie believed it was good—I threw it down, he picked it up, and chucked it on the floor—I saw it roll to the skirting—a man picked it up and gave it to me—I put it on the sideboard—I never lost sight of it—I marked it in the constable's presence, and gave the prisoner in charge.

Prisoner. Q. Do you think that when I went into jour house I knew for a moment that it was bad? A. I believe you did—you would have made away with it if you had had the money to pay for your liquor, but yon got so cheeky I sent for a constable—you were not much drunk; you attempted to escape going to the station.

CHARLES HINSAN (Policeman, V 214). I took the prisoner, and received this half-sovereign (produced)—I told him the charge, and asked him how he accounted for it—he said that he got it from Burt and Freeman's, for wages, on Saturday—when he got halfway to the station he tried to get away, but there were two of us, one on each side—he appeared to have been drinking, but the landlord said that he was shamming, and was not so bad before we came in—I went to Freeman's, and found that he did not work there—I was present when the Magistrate cautioned the prisoner, and told him he was not obliged to say anything unless he desired it, but whatever he said would be taken down, and used in evidence against him.

The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate:—"I am sure the half-sovereign I paid to the landlord's daughter was a good one; another man put another half-sovereign down, and received change; the landlord's daughter put one of the half-sovereigns down; I said, 'It is no use to me,' and threw it down in front of the bar; some man picked it up, examined it, and put it on the bar; I do not know what been me of it."

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This half sovereign is bad—it is made of white metal—you can bend it with your fingers.

GUILTY .—He was further charged with having been before convicted at this Court, in December, 1863, when he was sentenced to Nine Months' Imprisonment; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY.— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-953
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

953. JOHN BROWN (53), was indicted for a like offence.

MR. CRAUFURD conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE PETCHELL . My mother keeps the Beresford Arras, Kingsland-road—on 2d September, about 5 o'clock in the evening, the prisoner came with another man—I served him with a pint of half-and-half, which came to twopence—the prisoner tendered a bad shilling—I bent it, and told him it was bad; his companion paid me with coppers—I gave the prisoner the shilling—he put it into his pocket—they drank the beer, and left together—I followed them to the Builders' Arms, Stipule's-road, Islington, and after they came out, I went in and said something, and then followed them again to the Swan, in the Holloway-road, and gave them in charge.

Prisoner. Q. Was not it a very good shilling? A. It was a very good bad one—I did not mark it—I bent it with my teeth—it was one of George IV.

JOSEPH Moss. My father keeps the Builders' Arms—on 2d September, I was serving, and the prisoner came in with another man—he asked for half a quartern of gin, which came to two pence halfpenny, and gave me a shilling, which I broke in two in the detector, and gave the largest piece to him, keeping the smallest—the other man paid for the gin—Petchell came in, and spoke to me—I gave the piece of the shilling to Cruse.

Prisoner. Q. Did you come to the police-court next day? A. Yes, but

not the first thing in the morning—I did not know where it was—the policeman afterwards called for me—I did not appear at Marylebone Police-court—I cannot tell you why not—I received a summons to appear on 20th October—I saw a gentleman before I went in before the Magistrate, and had a conversation with him in a room—I had heard that you were in custody, but did not know whether you were Street or Lee—you gave your name Street at the station—I saw the piece of the shilling again at Clerkenwell, when you were brought up with the other man—I am sure it was the same—I had marked it on the rim at the Islington-station.

GEORGE CRUSE (Policeman, N' 690). The prisoner was given into my charge on 2d September, by Petchell—I told him the charge—he said that he had not been in the house, but the man with him said, "Oh we were there; the house where the monkey is"—there is a monkey there—I received this piece of a shilling from Petchell—he marked it—the prisoner and the other man were taken before the Magistrate at Clerkenwell—Moss did not attend the hearing, and the prisoner was remanded to the 7th—the boy did not then appear, and the prisoner was then discharged—he gave the name John Street.

THOMAS BARKER . I keep the Westmoreland Arms, George-street, Portman-square—on the evening of 5th October, the prisoner came with another man, and I served him with a pint of porter, which came to twopence—he pat down a shilling; I bent it nearly double with my finger and thumb—it was quite soft—I chucked it on the floor without making any remark, and he picked it up, and put it in his pocket—the other man asked for a pennyworth of tobacco, and gave me three pence—they drank the beer, and went away together—I told Wright to follow them.

JOSEPH WRIGHT . I followed the prisoner and the other man to the Sawyers' Arms, kept by Mr. Hart, and saw the prisoner pass a bad shilling—Mr. Hart took it from the boy—I spoke to Mr. Hart, and went round to the prisoner, and told him he had been passing money at the Westmoreland Arms, and I should detain him—the other man heard what I said, and walked out—I gave the prisoner in charge.

CHARLES HART . I keep the Sawyers' Aims—I was in my bar when the prisoner came in—I marked the shilling, and gave it to the constable—this is it (produced).

THOMAS WOODS (Policeman, D 197). I took the prisoner, and found on him eight shillings and sixpence, in good money, and a penny—he said, "You may look over that money; there is no bad money among it"—he refused his address, but gave his name, John Brown.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This is a bad shilling, and this is part of a bad shilling.

Prisoners Defence. One was in September, and the other was in October.

GUILTY .—He was further charged with having been before convicted, in July, 1863, when he was sentenced to One Years' Imprisonment; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY.*— Five Years' Penal Servitude ,

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-954
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

954. JOHN LEECH (19), JOHN SMITH (18), and EMMA GREEN (16), were indicted for a like offence.

MR. CRAUFURD conducted the Prosecution, and MR. WILLIAMS defended Leach and Smith.

WILLIAM Moss. I keep the Rose and Crown—on 7th September, I was keeping the Beehive, Fore-street, Lambeth—between half-past 3 and 4 o'clock, Smith came in for a pint of beer, which came to twopence, and gave me a half-crown—I said, "You have given me a bad half-crown"

—he said, "Have I?"—I said, "I have had several of your customer here," and asked him to allow me to look at his hands to see if he was a hard-working man—I saw that he was not—the friend who was with him gave me twopence—that was neither of the other prisoners—I said to the other man, "Why did you give me a half-crown, when you had coppers about you?"—no answer was made to that, and I gave them both in custody with the half-crown.

Cross-examined. Q. Was Smith charged at the police-court with the offence, and discharged? A. Yes.

JOHN BOWRA Policeman, K 437). I took the prisoner and the other man at Mr. Moss's, and received this half-crown—Smith gave his name Henry Howard, and said that he did not know it was bad—he was remanded till Friday, and discharged.

WILLIAM PALMER . I keep the Earl Amherst Tavern, Hackney—on 28th September, between 2 and 3 o'clock, Smith and Green came—Green called for a pint of ale, which came to twopence, and gave me a good sixpence—they drank the ale together, and then Smith asked for two biscuits, which came to twopence, and gave me a florin—I thought it was rather light, and put it by itself, inside the division in the till—Green said that there was no occasion to change that, as she had got coppers—I then tried it, bent it, and said that it was bad—they said that they were not aware of it—Smith gave me the shilling and tenpence back, and Green gave me twopence—I gave them the florin back, and they left—Jolley went after them.

ELIZABETH BAREHAM . My husband keeps the Amherst Arms, Shacklewell—on 28th September, Smith and Green came in the afternoon—Green asked for a pint of ale, and gave me a florin, saying, "I will pay for it; he is my cousin, and out of work, and I am in work"—I gave her the change, and put the florin in the till; there was no other florin there—they both drank the ale, and went away together—shortly after they left Jolley came and said something, in consequence of which I looked in the till, and took the florin out—he tried it, bent it with his teeth, and gave it to me back—I marked it, and gave it to the constable.

THOMAS JOLLEY . I am manager of the Flying Horse, Mare-lane, Hackney on 28th-September, I was at Mr. Palmer's when the prisoners came in—I followed them 300 yards up the road, and Leech joined them; they walked Borne distance together, and Leech left them about 150 yards before they got to the Amherst Arms; it is the best part of a mile from our house—I then followed the other two to the Amherst Arms, passed by the door, and saw them inside—I waited till they came out, then went in and spoke to Mrs. Bareham, who gave me a florin—I bent it, and followed them up the road, where they were joined again by Leech—I kept them in sight, and communicated with the police—they were then going towards Kingsland—I saw them all three taken in custody.

SAMUEL CRISP (Police-sergeant, N 3). I received information from Jolley, went in search of the prisoners, and found them on the footpath in Shacklewell-lane, coming towards me—I took Smith—I saw Leech throw something into his mouth, and told a constable to secure him, but he swallowed it—I took them to the station, and found a good florin on Smith—I received this other florin from Mrs. Barham—Smith gave no address—he said that he had no home.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you see anything in his hand? A. No; be might; have had tobacco or sugar.

JAMES BROUGHTON (Policeman, N 430). I took Leech, and saw him put something into his mouth; I took bold of him, and he appeared to swallow it—I asked him what it was—he made no reply—I tried to get it out, but did not find anything—I took him to the station; he was very violent—he kicked, and tried to bite me—I searched him at the station, and found a bad florin and a good one, a shilling, three sixpences, and seven pence halfpenny in copper, a centre-bit, a knife, and a purse—I asked him at the station what he put in his mouth; he said that it was a quid of tobacco.

Cross-examined. Q. What is that which you have in your hand? A. A centre-bit; it is not used for coining—I took Leech by the collar, not by the throat—my knuckles did not go into his throat—I tried to see what was in his mouth.

JAMES HOLMES (Policeman, N 343). I took Green—she said at the station that she was looking out after work, and accidentally mot with the two men, who were perfect strangers to her, who asked her to have some beer—I asked her address; she said that she had no home—two pence was found on her.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These two florins are bad, and from the same mould—the half-crown is also bad.

Green's Defence. I came out to look for work, and they came up and spoke to me; I had seen them before, but was never in their company; we drank together, but when the policeman caught hold of me, I did not know what it was for; only two pence was found on me.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months each.

THIRD COURT.—Tuesday, October 25th, 1864.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-955
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Miscellaneous > fine

Related Material

955. THOMAS FISHER (38), was indicted for unlawfully sending to Newgate-market 200 lbs. of meat, unfit for human food.

MESSRS. SLEIGH and POLAND conducted the Prosecution, and MR. KEMP the Defence.

WILLIAM THROWER . I am a cattle-dealer, and live at Salhouse, Norfolk—in August last I had a black and white heifer; I bad kept it about five months—I gave 6l for it—during that five months it fell off in the feed, and on Saturday, 6th August, I took the heifer to Norwich, and sold it to the defendant for 1l.—he is a butcher, I believe, in. Burr-street, Norwich—1l. included the hide and everything; the beast as it stood—I don't know what the value of the hide and offal was—I am not a butcher—I dare say it was worth the money.

Cross-examined. Q. The beast was alive when you sold it? A. Yes—I have known the defendant for several years in the market—during that time he has always borne a very good character—I never heard anything to the contrary.

COURT. Q. Do they sell cattle for 1l. in Norwich-market frequently? A. Beasts are sometimes sold for 1l. which are worth 4l or 5l.

HENRY SPARROW . I live in Burr-street, Norwich, and am sometimes a cattle-drover—one Saturday, in August, I was in Norwich-market, and I helped a chap up with a black and white heifer to Mrs. Leegood's slaughter-house—I saw Mr. Fisher on the hill at the time.

GEORGE DUNN . I live at the George the Fourth, in Burr-street, Norwich

and am a butcher—I know the defendant—in August last I was sent for to Mrs. Leegood's slaughter-house to slaughter some beasts—I saw the defendant there—I killed a black and white heifer, and dressed it—it had a slight touch of the lung disease; it also had a touch of the feet complaint as well; they call that tic—it had something also at the corner of the mouth—I had to cut the lungs out from the rlbs—I did not then rub them with suet—I dressed the animal and left it there—I know what stopping is—I did not do a little of that—having stripped the lungs away from the rlbs I wiped them out dry—I did nothing else—only just wiped it out—I did not cut it into the four quarters; I hung the carcase up and left it—I was not there at the packing—it was on the Sunday that I slaughtered it—I did not go there after it was slaughtered, before it was sent away—I was paid when had done it by Mr. Fisher—I saw him on the Saturday morning before I slaughtered the animal—I never had any conversation with him previous to my slaughtering and dressing the animal—he left word with Mrs. Fisher about it.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you been some years in the trade? A. Not long—I know a diseased beast when I am dressing it—this beast was not very bad—I have not seen worse beasts than this sold for human food—I did not see it packed—Mr. Fisher was not there whilst I was dressing it—I dressed it rather roughly—it would be sold in that state—I did not take much pains with it.

GEORGE QUANTRELL . I am a general dealer in Botolph-street, St. Augustine's, Norfolk—I know the defendant—I was at Mrs. Leegood's slaughter-house on the Monday, and saw him there—I saw two Carcases of beef there, one larger than the other—I think there were some pieces cut off the loin of the smaller one—I was there when a man, named Gedge, came with a hamper, and I assisted the defendant to pack these carcases into the hamper—I don't know who quartered them—I was at the shop after some other business, and he asked me to lend him a hand to put them in the hamper—the smaller one looked dark; I don't know whether it was diseased or not—I never paid much attention to it—it was dry when it was packed, but it was very black and poor—both the carcases were packed into the hamper—Gedge gave me a label to write on, this is it (produced)—I wrote "From Thomas Fisher, Burr-street, Norwich"—I wrote that because the defendant cannot write—I did not see any note put into the hamper—I could not swear whether there was one or not—I never saw one put in—I was in the slaughter-house at the time the hamper went away—Fisher was present when I wrote on the label—Gedge is here.

Cross-examined. Q. The prisoner's wife can write, can she not? A. I believe she can; I believe she is in the habit of doing all the writing in his business—the defendant had another paper in his hand besides the label—I cannot undertake to say that there was not a note put in the hamper—he did not say anything to me about putting a note in—I have assisted him before in packing—I have known him fifteen years—from what I understand he has borne a very good character—I never knew of any charge of his dealing with bad meat.

MR. POLAND. Q. The defendant is a butcher, I believe? A. A butcher and dealer—two hides were put in the hamper with the carcases.

EDWARD GEDGE . I was in the employment of Messrs Boardman, railway carriers, at Norwich—on Monday, 8th August, I went to Mrs. Leegood's slaughter-house with a hamper or flat—I saw the defendant and the last witness there—there were two beasts to be packed, one large and one small

—they were not packed in cloths, they were laid in the hamper—I observed the smaller one, the meat looked rather dark—a few pieces had been cut off the loin—I have seen a good deal of meat in my time, this did not look much fit fur food—the hide was put in along with it—it was packed in the ordinary way that meat is for the London-market—I saw the label pat outside the hamper—I did not see anything put inside—I was standing by my cart at the time—it was forwarded in the ordinary way to London; it would reach London the next morning.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you see a note in Fisher's hands? A. No—I stood by the cart during the whole time the hamper was being packed—the cart, was in the yard, and the hamper was on the cart.

JAMES HARRINGTON . I am a carcase butcher, carrying on business at Mr. Poynter's—on Tuesday morning, 9th August, I received a hamper of meat with this label on it: "From Thomas Fisher, Burr-street, Norwich"—my men opened it—I did not see it when it was opened; I saw what it contained afterwards; it contained two bodies of beef, one smaller than the other—one a very useful body of beef, and the other very middling—I had my doubts about the smaller one, and I called the inspector to look at it—I had it put on one side at the back part of the place—there was a black and white hide in the hamper—the hide of a beast of that kind was worth about 12s. or 14s.—I do not deal in dog's meat, nor does Mr. Poynter—it was dressed in the ordinary way—I did not see any cloths—I issue these printed labels to customers in the country—I have sent some of them to Fisher.

Cross-examined. Q. I suppose when this meat is sent to you, you exercise a discretion, to expose it for sale or not? A. Yes—if I think it is not fit I pat it aside. MR. POLAND. Q. Did you see any note in the hamper? A. I did not AMOS WOLNER. I am servant to Mr. Poynter—on Tuesday morning, 9th August, I opened this hamper which came from Fisher—there were two bodies of beef inside—I did not see anything of a note—that label was on the hamper outside—I did not finish getting the hides out—they were got out—one of the beasts was in a bad state—the inspector, Mr. Wylde, came and took possession of it.

WILLIAM WYLDE . I am one of the sanitary inspectors of the City of London—on Tuesday morning, 9th August, I went to Mr. Poynter's premises, and my attention was called to four quarters of beef—I found them hanging up—two pieces had been cut off the loin—it was in a very bad state, very wet, very much emaciated, and had been evidently suffering from disease of some kind—it was totally unfit for human food—I took the label off the hamper, and took possession of it—I took the meat to the Mansion House, and had it condemned—next day, the 10th, I went down to Norwich and saw the defendant—I told him I had been sent down to make inquiries, and cautioned him as to what he should say—I took down what he said, read it to him afterwards, and he made his mark against it—this is the statement he made: "On 8th I sent two bodies of beef to Mr. Poynter, of Aldgate; I bought them at Norwich in the market; a man that I employ, George Dunn, dressed them on 8th August; they were packed and addressed to Mr. Poynter. I put a note in the hamper, saying if they were not fit for human food to sell them for dogs' meat, or anything. I was there when the man took them away"—two other inspectors also saw the meat—it was dressed in the same way as meat is ordinarily sent up to market for sale.

GUILTY .— Confined Six Months , and fined 50l

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-956
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment; Miscellaneous > fine

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956. ISAAC MORRIS (61) , PLEADED GUILTY to unlawfully causing to be publicly exposed for sale 300l. be of meat unfit for human food Confined Twelve Months, and fined 501.

OLD COURT.—Wednesday, October 26th, 1864.

Before Mr. Baron Martin.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-957
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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957. RAYMOND RODRIGUEZ (23), was indicted for feloniously killing and slaying John de Leon; he was also charged on the Coroner's inquisition with the like offence.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution, and MR. RIBTON the Defence. The prisoner being a foreigner, the evidence was interpreted. GEORGE MITCHELL. I live at 187, Great George-street, St. George's-in-the-East—I assist at a boarding-house—on the night of 21st September I was in the Rose and Crown"—my master, John de Leon, was there, and the prisoner—there were a lot of Spaniards there—I got there about 10 o'clock—about half-past 11 the prisoner and deceased had a quarrel—after that all was quiet—I saw the prisoner go down stairs—soon afterwards I went down—I found the prisoner walking up and down outside the door—he had his left hand in his trousers pocket, and his right hand in his coat-pocket—he was there about a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes before I saw the deceased come down stairs; he came down about 12 o'clock; the lights were blown out, and every one came down; a lot of chaps and girls too—after all the people had come down I saw the prisoner walk inside the public-house: I was alongside of him—Leon came, and said to the prisoner, "What is the reason you always mention my name? you never hear me mention your name; if you have got any spite come outside, and fight in fair play in English fashion"—the prisoner answered, "Go, and—yourself"—Leon then put his hand to his breast, and pushed him; on that the prisoner took his right hand from his pocket with the knife in it, and let him have it with all his might in his belly—as soon as he was struck Leon said, "I am killed"—I caught the prisoner—he dropped the knife with the force of the blow; it was taken to the station—many of the people there beat the prisoner as soon as he had struck the blow—I went to the hospital with Leon—I think he lived about thirty-five or thirty-six hours.

Cross-examined. Q. Was there fighting upstairs before they came down? A. Only quarrelling for two or three minutes; I saw nothing else—I did not see the prisoner struck on the nose, and his nose bleeding—I don't know what the quarrel commenced about—I was servant to the deceased for five or six months—I don't know Charley Wilson or Domingo Salort (they were called in)—I know them—I saw Wilson there with the prisoner—I did not see the other man there; I know him—I did not see the deceased strike the prisoner, nor did I see the other Spaniards attack him and strike him—I did not see them pull the hair out of his head; I pulled some out when a lot of the Spaniards tried to take him out of my hand; that was down stairs—I did not see the prisoner with a handkerchief wiping the blood off his face—I did not hear Wilson say it was a great shame there should be such a row amongst Spaniards—I did not bear the deceased say that was nothing to what he should do by-and-by, and that he had nearly knocked the prisoner's eye out some time before—I did not, before the blow was struck, see the prisoner on the ground, and four or five on the top of him. RALPH VANDER MULLER. I was a waiter at the Rose and Crown—

about 12 o'clock on this night I had occasion to go to the door to shut up the place—I saw the prisoner standing outside the door with his right hand in his coat pocket, and his left hand in his trousers pocket—he stood so for about ten minutes—after that Leon and the prisoner spoke some words in Spanish, which I could not understand—Leon was sitting at a table opposite the bar, about three yards from the prisoner'—I believe Leon spoke first—he jumped off the table and was going towards the door—they spoke some more words; the prisoner answered him back with some expression, and Leon touched him on the shoulder with his open hand; the prisoner then took his right hand out of his pocket, and put the knife into the man's belly; he appeared to do it with violence—I saw the knife in his hand as it went by me—Leon said, "The son of a b-has killed me"—a policeman was sent for—I said, "He has got a knife;" and he dropped it on my boot—I picked it up, and gave it to the constable.

Cross-examined. Q. What countryman are you? A. Hollander—I had known the deceased about two years—I was not up stairs when any fighting took place—there was no fighting—the prisoner came down about twenty minutes before the Spaniards, and went outside—I did not notice whether he appeared distressed, he passed me rather sharp—I did not see him wiping his face with a handkerchief—when Leon came down he sat on a table in front of the bar—he was solid and sober—it was while he was sitting on the table that he spoke to the prisoner—the prisoner was not knocked down before he stabbed Leon—I did not see him on the ground afterwards with several on the top of him—he was got hold of by Mitchell—I helped to carry Leon into the kitchen—it was about a yard and a half inside the door that he was stabbed—I saw no blood on the prisoner—at the police-station, I saw that he had marks of violence on his face; his eyes looked inflamed—he was crying very much—I believe one eye was cut a little—his hair was in a rough sort of manner—Leon went towards the prisoner when he jumped off the table—I did not see him spit in the prisoner's face.

JOHN HENRY SHEPHERD (Policeman, H 43). From what I heard, I went to the Rose and Crown on this night—Leon said to me in English in the prisoner's presence, "I am stabbed," and pointed to the prisoner—I laid hold of him—he said, "Me no knife"—I had not mentioned a knife—I saw a knife on the ground—it was given to me—I produce it—it is a Spanish clasp-knife, with a spring back—I did not notice any blood on it—the deceased was taken to the hospital—I took the prisoner to the station—he was quite sober, but he had been knocked about—I had something to do to get him away from them—Mitchell and several others were round him beating him when I went in—they appeared very angry, and did not want to hand him over to me.

Cross-examined. Q. Were there a good many Spaniards? A. There were a good many foreigners—they were ill-treating him—he was bleeding, and had a mark over his eye—I saw him next day—he had been very much beaten about the face—I could not see that his hair was torn out of his head—I saw some hair in his hand next day.

RICHARD THEODORE GRUBBE . I am house-surgeon at the London Hospital—the deceased was brought there about half-past 12 on the morning of 23d September—he had a punctured wound in the lower part of the abdomen, a little on the left side, about an inch long—I did not probe it—he had evidently lost a great deal of blood—he was in a very weak state—he remained alive about thirty hours—he died from peritonitis in consequence of the wound—such a knife as this would produce just such a wound—a

post-mortem examination was made—I could see where the knife had penetrated—it had entered the cavity of the abdomen; that is to say, it had gone through the skin and muscles—I have no doubt whatever that the wound was the cause of death.

Cross-examined. Q. He was a strong, muscular man, was he not? A. Yes, quite up to the average—he was a considerably larger and more powerful man than the prisoner—I examined the prisoner at the Police-court next day—I found he had been very much ill-treated about the head—both eyes were black, and there was a little cut on the cheek-bone—hair had been pulled out of his head—I examined his body—I could see no marks, but he complained of being tender when I touched him in different parts—the deceased's wound was in the belly, not very low down; it inclined slightly upwards, as if struck from below.

Witnesses for the Defence, CHARLEY WILSON. I was at the Rose and Crown with the prisoner—he went up stairs with me—there were six or seven Spaniards sitting down besides the prisoner—Leon was sitting at the head of the table with us—he was about sixteen feet from the prisoner—I got up and went over to speak to Leon, merely to ask how he was getting on—while I was standing talking to him, the prisoner came over to me, and asked if I was coming home, as he could not wait any longer—Leon directly jumped up and hit him in the face—all the Spaniards stood up and rushed towards Leon to take his part—after that, the prisoner had a little blood on his face—Leon went down stairs with the runner belonging to his house (Mitchell)—I did not see the other Spaniards strike the prisoner—one caught hold of his hair on one side and another on the other side, and they pulled his hair out very badly all over one side—I did not see him on the ground up stairs—Leon came back in four or five minutes with Mitchell, and sat down in the same seat he was in before—some of the chaps were cleaning the prisoner's face—I went to Leon, and said it was a shame to make a row between Spaniards—the prisoner said, "I don't know what you mean by always trying to row with me; I never do with you"—Leon said, "The last six mouths I was nearly blind. What I done to him before is nothing to what I will do to him again"—they then all went down stairs together—I did not see what took place there—I went into a little room to speak to a young woman.

DOMINGO SALORT . I am a Spanish seaman—I was up stairs at the Rose and Crown—I saw Leon strike the prisoner in the face—I saw him bleed—I did not see the other Spaniards do anything to him up stairs—he went down stairs—I saw him at the door—there was blood on his face, and he was wiping it occasionally—I saw Leon catch hold of his jacket, and he said, "If you want to fight, come out into the street"—the prisoner said, "I can't fight"—Leon then called him a b-thief, and spat in his face, and struck him somewhere in the face or head, and the prisoner fell down on the top of a bench—three or four Spaniards went over and joined with Leon—I saw one kick the prisoner, and another pull his hair—Leon was standing a-top of him—I did not see the blow struck with the knife—the prisoner was on the ground and Leon over him, and two or three more and one girl were pulling his hair—I did not take any part in it.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-958
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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958. JAMES SAYWOOD (26) , indicted for, and charged on the coroner's inquisition, with feloniously killing and slaying Michael Dunn.

MR. KYDD conducted the Prosecution, and MR. RIBTON the Defence.

WILLIAM PEARCE (Policeman, N 300). On 19th September, I was in Elder-walk, Islington, and saw the prisoner and deceased—they had a few words, and the prisoner up with his fist and struck Dunn in the breast, and knocked him down, and he then up with his foot and kicked him in the bead as he lay on the ground—I took the prisoner into custody.

Cross-examined. Q. Was not the deceased very violent? A. No; very quiet—he did not make use of any bad language—I had been with another constable to the room where the prisoner lived to apprehend a young woman who lives with him for assaulting Dunn's sister; and while she was putting on her clothes, the prisoner made use of bad language, and said he would go out and give that big b-Dunn his b-oats—we told him he had better keep inside and keep quiet, but he insisted on coming out—Dunn came with his mother to stand up for his sister—it was as we were going to the station that the prisoner and Dunn met, and then this occurred—it was a little before in the morning.

GEORGE TAYLOR (Policeman, N 336). I went to the prisoner's lodging with the last witness to apprehend Eliza Sticks, for assaulting Margaret Dunn—I was going up Elder-walk with Sticks, about twenty yards a-head, and last witness called me back—I found Dunn lying on the ground insensible.

Cross-examined. Q. There had been a good deal of fighting on the Sunday night, had there not? A. I heard there had been a fight, but I did not witness it—I did not see that the prisoner had been very much beaten—I bad orders to take Eliza Sticks into custody for the assault on Margaret Dunn—I did not see the assault—I had no warrant—I believe the prisoner felt very much annoyed at our taking her out of bed—we did not break his door open, it was on the latch—they were both in bed—the prisoner got up and dressed himself.

NORAH DUNN . I live at 1, Elder-street, Elder-walk—the deceased was my son—on the morning of 19th September the prisoner was going along Elder-walk, and he made use of two blackguard words to me—my son said to him, "Don't say those words to my mother, I will talk to you to-morrow"—the prisoner made no more to do but turned round and gave my son a blow in the chest which knocked him down, and then gave him three kicks as hard as he could lift his leg up—he was in a gore of blood—he came home with me that night, and next night we had to take him to the infirmary—he lived three weeks—he was in a dreadful state—he was covered all over with blood and blows.

Cross-examined. Q. Had your son been fighting on the Sunday night? A. No—he never fought till that night, when he came up and saw the prisoner's woman dragging my daughter by the hair of her head—he was indoors all the Sunday evening—he was indoors at 10 and 9—I have another son, named Frederick—he was not fighting that night—he has had a bad leg for six weeks—the deceased was very angry when he found his sister had been hurt—he did not vow vengeance for it—I was about two yards from him when the prisoner knocked him down—it was not dark—there was a lamp close to the corner.

RICKABY DONALD . I am surgeon to the Islington Workhouse—the deceased was brought there on 21st September—I examined him—there was a contused wound on his head extending down to the scalp—there had been very great baemorrhage from it—it had quite the appearance of a wound caused by a kick—he remained under treatment in the workhouse for about three weeks—he got gradually worse, and died on 15th October—I attribute

the death to the diseased state of the man's lungs—I made a post-mortem examination—the cause of death was disease of the lungs—the stomach was quite healthy; the heart was rather in a diseased state—there had evidently been long-standing disease of the chest—before his death, a low typhoid state of fever took place, which I attributed to his weak state from the profuse bleeding from the wound on the head—if it had not been for the hæmorrhage and fever, I think he would have recovered.

Cross-examined. Q. You think that disease of the lungs was the cause of death? A. Yes; but I think it was accelerated by the wound on the head—I am not quite sure of it—I don't speak with absolute certainty—his heart was very extensively diseased—I think probably he would not have lived very long; but I believe he would have been alive now, but for this—but for the wound, I should have attributed his death to natural canses—I was informed by the surgeon to the police that he had bled extensively—the skull was not broken—I think the hæmorrhage alone would have accelerated the death in a man of his state of disease—it would set up that sort of irritative fever of which he died—this happened on the 19th—I did not see him till the 22d—he was seen by a surgeon in the interval—I don't think the blow on the head would be caused by a fall—it was at the top of the head.

MR. KYDD. Q. What in your judgment would be the effect of excessive hæmorrhage on a man of weakly constitution? A. It would probably hasten his disease, especially any disease of the lungs, such as there was in this man—it was apparent from my examination of him that he had suffered from excessive hæmorrhage.

Witnesses for the Defence. SARAH CUNNINGHAM. I live at 4, Elder-walk—I know the prisoner—on the night in question he and a young man named Fieldey were jangling, but they made it up and shook hands—Margaret Dunn, who was keeping company with Fieldey, went and brought up both of her brothers, and said, "Here is Fred Dunn—if Hildy (meaning Fieldey) can't do anything for you, Fred Dunn can," at the same time Fred Dunn stripped off his things, and began to fight with the prisoner—Michael Dunn did not do anything—he was behind Fred, looking on—he took no part in it—the prisoner was very drunk indeed, he could scarcely stand—he fell several times, and by the neighbours crying out "Shame," the fight was prevented—the prisoner was taken away nearly insensible to one of the neighbour's houses—he was hit several times, and every time he was hit, he fell.

HENRY WILKINSON . I live at 3, Birch-place, Elder-walk—on 18th September, about a quarter to 12, I and my wife were returning home—I heard a disturbance, and heard Michael Dunn swearing awfully, and using most abusive language to Mrs. Cunningham—I afterwards heard him say that he would cut the b-head of the young woman's sweetheart before he slept—and he said he was no b——man if he did not come and have it out—and he and his brother and sister went up to get him out—I did not follow them—I have known the prisoner twenty years—I don't believe there is a quieter chap in Islington.

GUILTY .— Confined Four Months.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-959
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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959. REBECCA SMITH (38) , Feloniously casting and throwing oil of vitriol upon Henry Major with intent to burn and disfigure him.

MR. HORRY conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY MAJOR . I am a labourer, living at 8, George-street, Lisson-grove

—I know the prisoner—I have not known her long—on the morning of 18th September she came to my residence—a person named Graby was with me, sitting by ray side—the prisoner came in and demanded money of me she said, "What do you do in this place?" I said, "That has nothing to do with you"—she asked when I was coming out—I said, when I thought proper—she asked me for money—I refused to give her any, as she had no authority on me for money—she then gave me a slap on the face—she did nothing else then; afterwards, when I was moving from there behind the door, she came in again, and asked me again if I was coming out—I said no, I should come out when I thought proper—she then said, "Take that, and be d-d to you," and threw some liquid over me—it went right down my face, mouth, and neck, and all over my clothes, and burnt my clothes very much—it appeared like boiling water when it first came on my face—she ran away, and I went to the dispensary and had my face dressed.

Prisoner. I was living with him, and he left me and went to this place to lodge, leaving me three weeks' rent to pay. Witness. She has lived with me for a short time—she did not ask for money to pay the rent—I can't say whether she had taken the room for me—I did not strike her—I never got out of the chair.

WILLIAM GRABY . I live at 8, George-street, Lisson-grove—on the morning of 18th September I was in the place where Major lodged—the prisoner came in, and chucked whatever there was in the cup—the most part came over me, and came down one side of my jaw; I have been in the infirmary—I was burnt—when she was locked up, she said she did not mean to throw it at me—she meant it for Major.

WILLIAM SURUBB (Policeman). I took the prisoner into custody—I told her it was for throwing vitriol over two men—she said, "I know all about it, I done it; I meant to throw it in his eye"—on Monday morning, in going from the station to the police-court, she said, "I did not mean to throw it in his face, I meant to throw it over his clothes. I got the vitriol from a bottle in the room" I got this mug from the room where Major was lodging—there was vitriol in it—I took it to a surgeon, and he tested it—I did not find any bottle in the room.

CHARLES OWEN OSPREY . lam a surgeon—the two witnesses were brought to the dispensary, and I attended to them—Major had a burn or wound on one side of the face, extending over the cheek and side of the neck as far as the mouth, and there were some bums down his clothes, evidently from sulphuric acid—the scalds were of the colour that would be caused by sulphuric acid or vitriol: I have no doubt about it: it would not be produced by anything else—Graby was injured in the same way, and about to the same extent.


NEW COURT.—Wednesday, October 26th, 1864.

Before Mr. Justice Willes.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-960
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty

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960. DANIEL CHRISTOPHER (44) PLEADED GUILTY to Feloniously sending a letter to Thomas Duck Hopper threatening to murder him; also to feloniously forging and uttering au order for the payment of 350l., with intent to defraud. Confined Eighteen Months.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-961
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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961. JOHN HILL (38) Feloniously sending a letter to Viscount Curzon threatening to murder him

MR GIFFARD conducted the prosecution.

VISCOUNT CURZON. On 8th February, I received this letter (Read: "Curzon: Twenty months have elapsed since I stated in a letter that your father was a liar and a robber, a shabby fellow, and would turn like a weathercock. When I wrote the letter to you, then living at Pen, in the Amersham Division, God only knew my motive, which I now refresh your memory, for so doing. Bone of his bone treated it with disdain, I expect, counselled by that monster of a villain, Thynne; that be as it may, I shall be on the watch strictly for you or your father and Thynne, to put my menace into execution. You may sneer at this, but, by God I carry that with me about the streets of London, as will rid the earth of tyrants. I let you to know I belong to that stamp of man as states his principles, and determined to shoot any of you down. I think no more of it than you did of shooting a hare on that farm, in the year of grace, 1840. Remember, it as entered so deep in the soul, and the only cure for it his execution; I mean, tie me up by the neck in the heavens—you may rely on this, I have been forty times in Great George-street this last ten days, to meet with that scoundrel, Thynne. The stamp I belong to is, 'Be up and doing,' for it is wisdom to kill such fellows so help me God! Pencil or ink, parchment or paper, I are the same man. I declare to God you have had every chance to remedy and redress father Lynch; now, it is my turn. By God, beware! what I mean, I say, what I say, I mean; tomorrow, if I have the chance, I actually will blow out your brains, and throw your body into Slur-hole!") The prisoner's father was a tenant of my father's at Shakleston in Leicestershire—a person named Thynne was Lord Howe's agent—I believe the prisoner's father left the farm by the directions of Mr. Thynne, but I do not know it myself.

Prisoner. Q. Did not the tenancy commence with my father under the Baroness Howe? A. I have no reason to think so—I remember your father—I said on 12th August, at Marlborough-street, that I had never seen you before, and I do not know that I had—I do not recollect seeing you in my troop for nine years, or on the farm, when I have come shooting hares in a field of turnips—I do not remember seeing you when there was a fox in a drain at the bottom of the farm.

Prisoner. I have three brothers who have been writing to you, but I never wrote to you; Thomas Hill wrote to tell you that if I had not been down in Ireland, there would have been murder committed; the bailiff told me to give it up, and I said I would never do so; he sent thirteen or fourteen men into the farm, and let it at 15s. an acre more than we were giving for it; he had no business to come and take it in that way; twelve mouths' rent was overpaid at the time they took possession of it; that was in 1858; I was thrown apon the world, and the property was given away entirely, we were not tenants to Lord Curzon.

Witness. The farm bailiff was not my servant, but my father's—this was my father's property—I never could have given any order to my father's servants about this—I did not interfere in the slightest degree in the management of my father's property; never in my life—I did not receive any letter from your brother Thomas in 1861.

Prisoner. He wrote three: one to Lord Howe, one to you, and one to the bailiff. One of them had my signature to it, but I never put my signature to it, though I knew it was written. I can bring my mother to prove the injustice. He got 2001. a year out of this from this model farm, just at the time of the Russian war. This farm-bailiff came in, and was going to do wonders. Lord Howe has got a second family, and he said he would get

a fortune for them, and get 2,000l. a year out of it, just at the time that agricultural produce waft doubled. This man came speaking the grossest insolence, and insulting me. There was land hardly worth 18d an acre, full of clay pits, and my family made that land. I knew my signature was put to the letter of 1861, but I am innocent of the letter of 1864. I am not my brother's keeper, and I cannot answer for this letter. I am as innocent as any man I am in the presence of. I am here with a clear conscience. I did not know a word that was in the letter till I heard it read at Marlborough-street. I have been locked up ten weeks.

HENRY BEARD (Police-seiyeant). On 2d or 3d August, I received the letter produced from Mr. Packer, and took the prisoner in custody—I asked him if he was John Hill—he said, "Yes"—I said, "I have a warrant for jour apprehension, for sending a letter to Viscount Curzon, threatening to kill him"—he said, "I sent it, and T have sent some to Lord Howe too, and I mean to carry out what I have stated in it"—I then produced these two letters, and asked him if he had seen them before; I mean the writing and the pencil.

VISCOUNT CURZON (re-examined). I received the pencil and the writing in the same envelope.

HENRY BEARD (continued). He took them in his hand, read them, and said, "I wrote them"—I found on him the draft of a letter to Lord Howe.

Prisoner. That letter was not written within 200 miles of this town. The COURT suggested that as the letter dated 11 (A July, 1864, was written after the date of the letter in question, it would not be evidence; but MR. GIFFARD stating that he offered it as proof of identity, it was admitted and read. It was similar in its character to the one read.

Prisoner. What he has stated is quite false. I never touched the letter. He said, "I hold a warrant against you for sending a threatening letter to Lord Curzon." I said, "If I did anything of that kind I will stand by it." He said, "You have sent a letter to a man named Dummelow, a former. "I said, "I know my brother sent a letter, with my signature to it. I am going into Kent, and must see a solicitor about it." He said, "My good man, do you know I demand you as my prisoner?" He afterwards asked me to take 50l. to go to Australia, but I said I would not go at any price.

Witness. It is false.

Prisoner. The letter found on me was written at Liskeard, Cornwall, to be left till called for. My brothers insulted him with gross letters, but kept their hands off. I went down to Liverpool. This man has made as wicked a statement as ever came from the lips of man. I would give him one hundred lashes if I could.

RICHARD NICKIE . I am an agent, living at Newton, in Leicestershire—I have known the prisoner thirty years, and have seen him write—I believe this letter of 8th February to be his.

Prisoner. Q. When did you see me write? A. Plenty of times; you have signed receipts for grass at our house, one of which I forwarded to the solicitor (produced at the prisoners request)—I believe the whole of this to be your writing, and I saw you sign it when I paid you the cash.

Prisoner. You never paid me a farthing in your life. This is my sister Mary's writing, not mine.

Witness. It was my father who had the cows. I paid you the money on the table, and you signed the receipt.

SAMUEL HORSEY (Police-sergeant, C). On 13th July I was on duty in South Audley-street, near Lord Howe's house, No. 8—I heard the breaking of glass, waited a minute, and heard it repeated—I then went and saw the

prisoner walking up and down opposite Lord Howe's—he continued to walk up and down for a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes, occasionally looking very hard at the residence of Lord Howe—I then crossed over, and found the window had been broken—while examining it the prisoner crossed to me and said, "Oh, you have found it at last"—I said, "Yes"—he said, "There was another policeman nearer than you were when I did it."

Prisoner. I confess I broke the windows I had threatened for two years to commit such a crime. My brother and I agreed that if there was any crime to be done, I was the man to do it Lord Howe owes us a year's rent, and Lord Curzon had no right to come and take the farm away. He is as brutal as a Russian is to a Pole.

SAMUEL PROBERT . I am clerk to Mr. Thynne—I was at the police-court when this matter was under investigation—I remember the letter being read by Mr. Parkins—when he came to the conclusion, in which it says that the writer would cast Lord Curzon's body into a slur-bole, it was not very distinctly written, and the prisonersaid, in a very distinct voice, "Slur hole"—I have no idea what a slur hole is.

Prisoner. Never. He paused to draw me on.

Prisoner's Defence. I assure you I am innocent of it. It has come from some member of the family, but I cannot pretend to be my brother's keeper, or acknowledge ray brother's faults.


Recommended to mercy by the Jury, in consequence of his fancied grievances.— Confined Two Years.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-962
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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962. WILLIAM WOODS (50) , Feloniously cutting and wounding Sarah Dempster with intent to murder her. Second Count, with intent to do her some grievous bodily harm.

MR. COLLINS conducted tfie Prosecution, and MR. BESLEY the Defence.

SARAH DEMPSTER . I live with the prisoner, at 3, Little Albany-street—on the Sunday before 1st October, he knocked me about, and on 1st October I took out a summons against him, but I forgave him that, and did not go before the Magistrate—I was in the hospital—I went to bed about 2 o'clock in the afternoon of 1st October—the prisoner was in the room with me, and remained with me all the afternoon excepting when he went out once or twice to get some tea—he came to bed at half-past 8 o'clock, and about half an hour afterwards sent some one out for some beer—he and I both drank some of it—there was quarrelling between us at that time—he went on calling me names—I wanted to go away and leave him—when I saw that he was in bed, I got out of bed to dress myself, and he got out to stop me—his shoemaker's shop is near our bed-room—he went into the shop, and I heard him turning over his tools—when I was in bed he said that he would rip ray heart out before I should go out of the place, and when he came back from the shop he had a knife in his hand, which he stuck into my left side—I was then sitting on a chair—I tried to get away from him, and got into the shop—he kept on stabbing the knife into me, down my arms and down the back part of my side—I was then down on the floor, and he was holding me down with his foot on the front of me—he said nothing, but I said, "Pray, don't," and asked him to kiss me, and not stick it in any more, but he continued till Mrs. Grose opened the door—I was taken to a doctor's, and then to a hospital.

Cross-examined. Q. How long have you known him? A. About two months before last Christmas—his wife was not dead then—I was with her before she died, and I took the baby and kept it ever since; it lived till it

was nine months old—she left two other children—since April I have been Jiving with the prisoner as his wife—we had several quarrels before this, and I left him once and went back—we made up the quarrel when I summoned him—he wished me to come home, and said that he would not touch me any more, but he did not believe I had taken the summons out till it came, and was very much excited about it—I went to bed at 2 o'clock, when I came back from having my arm dressed at the hospital—it was 8 o'clock when he came to bed—we have the shop and parlour on the groundfloor—he works at home—he is an industrious, hardworking man, trying to do the best for his children.

ELIZABETH GROSE . I live with my son at 3, Albany-street—my husband and I do not live together—the prosecutrix and prisoner live in the same house—I went into their room on 1st October, about 9 o'clock—they were in bed, and as they had had some words, I told him that if he was quiet I would get a drop of beer in—I went out and got some; they had had some before—she got out of bed, and said that she would go away—he said that she should not—he asked me to get some more beer, and said, "Leave her to me, and I will manage her"—I went across the road for it, heard a scream, came back, and she was lying in the shop—the prisoner was there with a knife in his hand—I said, "You have stabbed Mrs. Dempster"—he made no reply—she was sent to a doctor.

Cross-examined. Q. How wide is the street? A. It is a mews—I had not got across the road when I heard the scream—he was excited on account of her saying that she would go away.

WILLIAM MAYBANK (Policeman, S 270). On Saturday night, 1st October, about 11 o'clock, I was called to 3, Little Albany-street, and endeavoured to find the prisoner, but he had gone—a knock came to the door, and I went and saw the prisoner in the street—I said that I should take him in custody for stabbing a woman—he said, "I know nothing about it"—I took him to the station—he was quite sober—on the Sunday morning I went with him to the hospital to the bedside of the prosecutrix—she said, "That is the man that stabbed me with a shoemaker's knife"—he said nothing.

Cross-examined. Q. When he said that he knew nothing about it, did he seem confused or stupefied? A. No—T did not find him coming from a public-house—he was close to his own door—I have seen him working in the shop.

JOHN LAXTON (Police-superintendenty S), On Saturday night, 1st October, I went to the prisoner's house, and just inside the door I found this knife (produced) sticking into a petticoat covered with blood.

CHARLES BRADLEY . I am house-surgeon at University College Hospital—I examined Mrs. Dempster there; she had eleven punctured wounds, one on her left elbow, one on her left shoulder, one under her left breast, one on her left thigh, and the others on the back part of the left side of the chest—either of these shoemaker's knives would have inflicted the wounds—she was in-the hospital from 1st to 21st October—I thought she was in danger the first night—I do not know the depth of the wounds; they were about half an inch long.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you call them superficial cuts? A. No; but some of them were—they might have gone to a depth to endanger life; they were not stopped by any bone—there are no symptoms of their having penetrated the chest, and therefore you may take it that they are more superficial than at first I imagined. COURT. Q. Is her state to-day in your judgment due to agitation or to

having this assault npon her? A. To agitation and nervousness, and weakness from loss of blood.

MR. BESLEY called

JOHN HERROD . I am a shoemaker, of 65, Augusta-street, Regent's-park—I have known the prisoner four years—he is a very hardworking humane man, and very kind.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know that last Christmas he was charged with knocking this woman's head through a window? A. He was.

WILLIAM LONG . I am a carpenter—I have known the prisoner ten years and always found him a very hardworking man; he has borne a particularly good character for humanity and kindness of heart.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know that he was perpetually beating this poor woman, and that a week before he broke her arm? A. I have heard of it—I do not know that he ill-used her more than once, or that he knocked her head through a window last Whitsuntide—I did not see him break her arm—he was locked up on one occasion, I believe, for assaulting her.

MR. COLLINS re-called

SARAH DEMPSTER . The prisoner has ill-used me before, but it has been when he was drinking—it is true that he knocked my head through a window last Whitsuntide, but he was sorry for it afterwards—he broke my arm a week before this stabbing took place, but I forgave him that—it is not well yet; it was in a sling at the time these wounds were inflicted on me.

GUILTY on Second Count. Ten Years' Penal Servitude.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-963
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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963. GEORGE SHERIDAN (27) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Henry Stone, and stealing therein 1 purse, and 4s. 6d. in money, his property, and 2 pairs of boots, the property of John White.

Mr. OPPENHEIM conducted the Prosecution, and MR. RIBTON the Defence. MATILDA STONE. I am the wife of Henry Stone—we live at 4, Ellen borough-road, Upper Holloway—on Tuesday, 13th October, I went to bed at 10 o'clock, having seen that the house was properly fastened—I got up between 5 and 6 o'clock and found the back kitchen window a little open—it was fastened the night before—I missed a box from the table which was there the night before—I also missed a table cloth—I found the box in the dusthole in the backyard, and missed 3s. and a half-crown from it, part of which was loose and part wrapped up in paper—there were a great many other articles in the box—the money was in a purse, which I also missed—I went to the police-station and was shown this purse (produced)—I cannot say exactly that it is mine, but I believe it is—I have not seen the table-cloth since.

JOHN WHITE . I live at Mr. Stone's—on 13th October, before going to bed, I shut the front door—the house was closed—I got up next morning at a quarter to 5 and missed two pair of boots, a heavy pair and a light pair, which were in the kitchen when I went to bed—I should not like to swear that these (produced) are the heavy pair, as there are so many alike—I did not swear to them at the station—they are very much like mine—my name was on the inside of one of my boots in ink—it is not here now—only one pair have been shown to me since—there was a piece off the clip on the toe of one of my boots, and there is a piece off the clip of this boot.

Cross-examined. Q. Will you swear that these are your boots? A. No—it was the heavy pair that the tip was off.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant,

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-964
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Miscellaneous > sureties; Miscellaneous > fine

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964. WILLIAM MARSHALL (60), was indicted for a Libel.

MESSRS. METCALFE and H. GIFFARD conducted the Prosecution, and MR. SERJEANT ATINDAL ATKINSON and MR. SLEIGH the Defence. PHILIP HENRY BENETT. I am a member of the firm of Leigh ton and Co.—our offices in Loudon are at 19, Mark-lane—the head quarters of the firm are at Shanghai—we deal with the Imperial Government of China, in exporting cannons, guns, &c.—I believe we do all their business—I know the defendant—I may have known him a year and a half or two years—I was introduced to him by one of our clerks—I believe he is a commission agent—I paid him 5l. or 10l. for giving instructions in book-keeping—I afterwards gave Captain Blakely an order through Mr. Marshall—he would be entitled to commission upon that from Captain Blakely—he made a claim on Captain Blakely of 600l. or 700l. for commission, which Captain Blakely disputed—that was litigated at Guildford—Mr. Marshall wished me to be arbitrator—I said I did not think it was fair that I should, because I had already made up my mind that he was not entitled to more than Captain Blakely offered, 300l. odd—Captain Blakely hearing that offer was made, wrote and accepted me as arbitrator, and then Marshall wrote to say I had not accepted the office—the trial came on in the summer—I can't say whether it was in August or not—I had some conversation with Marshall just before the trial came on—I told him that I thought the whole of the just claim against Captain Blakely would be liquidated by what Captain Blakely offered to pay him, and I did not think that by going to law he. would do anything else than run himself into expenses—I did not offer him any bet of a 1000l. to one; most decidedly not—I do not remember anything about a bet at all; either my offering or Mr. Marshall accepting a bet—I do not recollect anything about the matter—I don't think it was possible that I could have bet a 1000l to 1l.—I don't remember such an expression passing—whether it passed or not, I can't say—I am perfectly positive and certain that I made no bet—on the day of the trial I stated to Mr. Marshall's attorney that it was very inconvenient that Mr. Byrne, who is our head clerk, should be away from the office at the same time as myself—I think he then said he would take it into consideration—he afterwards came into my room at the hotel and told me that he intended to keep Mr. Byrne—I represented to him that his evidence was the same as mine, and asked him if he had power to keep him—he said, "I will keep Mm in gaol"—I said, "You walk out of my room, and don't come into it again"—I asked a friend of mine who was there, Mr. Pope Henessey, whether Marshall's solicitor had any power to put Byrne in prison, and he. said no.

Q. On the day of the trial how was it you came to be in the witness-box? A. The judge said, Is Mr. Benett in court, he is the proper person to be called?"—the crier called out, "Mr. Benett." and I walked up into the witness-box—I was not sworn—the attorneys of Captain Blakely were not also my attorneys—Courtnay and Freeman are my attorneys—Captain Blakely's solicitors are Cunliffe and Beaumont, of Chancery-lane—Captain Blakely applied to me to be allowed to take copies of documents that were in my office—I said, "Certainly," and told our head clerk to allow him to take copies of anything in the case—Mr. Marshall also came to me, and

asked to be allowed to take copies, and I told Mr. Byrne to let him take copies of anything he liked—both parties had power to take any copies of anything in our office connected with the case—400l. odd was paid to Mr. Marshall—it was a verdict by consent between the parties—it never went to the jury—I have seen Mr. Marshall write, and know his handwriting moderately well; it is my belief that this letter, dated 8th August, is his hand-writing—(Read: " 53, New Bond street. August 8th, 1854. Dear sir,—If you have any demand on me for the expense of your attendance at Guildford, I beg you to send me the particulars at once, in order that my solicitor may include them in the costs to be taxed against Captain Blakely. I have delayed writing to you on this subject as I have been in daily expectation of the receipt of a cheque for the amount of your bet on the result of the trial, which I must say you seem to have spared no pains to make safe. Yours respectfully, William Marshall. P. H. Benett, Esq. ")—This next letter was written in answer to that, by Mr. Byrne—(" 19, Mark-lane, E. C. 8th August, 1864. Sir,—In reply to yours of to-day, Mr. Benett has desired me to say that he has no expenses to charge, as he considers that Captain Blakely has been very badly treated, and that should the present verdict be adhered to, Captain Blakely will have quite enough expenses without his adding to them; and with regard to the bet, Mr. Benett recollects making some offer, but was not aware that you accepted it. I am, sir, yours faithfully, Robert H. Byrne. W. Marshall, Esq. ")—That letter is not consistent with the orders I gave Mr. Byrne—I did not tell him that I acknowledged having made a bet at all—it is partly correct—I told him to say that I did not wish to increase Captain Blakely's expenses—I was in a great hurry at the time, and I said, "I neither recollect any bet, nor Mr. Marshall making any."

COURT. Q. Did you ever see the letter that Byrne wrote? A. No, never till I compared it with this printed affair that was sent to me—I have not the least doubt that an office copy was taken of it.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Do you read every office copy that is taken I A. Not one, except in the private letter book, and I read them all—(a letter, dated 9th August, 1864, from Marshall to Benett was here read, containing this paragraph—"There is no doubt, there can be no doubt, and I will take good care that there shall be no doubt that you betted me 1000l. to 1l. that I should not recover against Captain Blakely more than 300l., and that I accepted the bet. ") I was subpoened by the defendant—I went into the witness box, but did not speak a word—I was not sworn—(another letter from Marshall to Benett, dated 23rd August, was here read, stating that, as he had received no reply to his letters, he should take proceedings against Benett for the payment of 1000l.)—About 22d September I received this printed document, with a written document in this envelope—(the written document stated that Mr. Marshall was about to submit the enclosed to the Stafford and Jockey Clubs, and to the Circle, and to circulate it in London, Shanghai, St. Petersburg, and every commercial emporium in the world, and invited Mr. Benett to add any-thing, to modify, or contradict any portion of it. The printed document was as follows:—"Statement of facts arising out of a wager between Mr. Philip Henry Benett, of the firm of Leighton and Co. of London and Shanghai, and Mr. William Marshall. Mr. Marshall having a considerable claim upon Captain Blakely, arising out of a contract for the supply of cannon, ammunition, &c. for the Imperial Government of China, he was compelled to resort to legal proceedings to enforce payment of it Mr. Benett, who is intimately connected with Captain Blakely, took great interest in the question. The attorneys employed to defend the action were the attorneys of Mr. Benett as

well as of Captain Blakely. On the 4th August, on the very eve of the trial, Mr. Benett offered a bet to Mr. Marshall of 1000l., that he would not recover more than 300l., which Mr. Marshall accepted. On 5th August the cause was tried at Guildford. Mr. Benett and his clerk, Mr. Byrne, were suhpoened as witnesses for Mr. Marshall, the plaintiff Both attended accordingly, but Mr. Benett, notwithstanding the remonstrances of Mr. Marshall's attorney, sent Mr. Byrne away, and he returned to Loudon before the cause was called on. Mr. Benett, however, remained, and during the whole day was in constant communication with the defendant's attorney, whom he supplied with invoices, letters, and other documents for use in the cause. To the surprise of Mr. Marshall, Mr. Benett entered the box as a witness for Captain Blakely. The counsel for the defendant did not, however, ask him a single question, and the jury without hesitation found a verdict for the plaintiff for 475l., which, with the costs, has since been paid. The following correspondence subsequently passed between Mr. Marshall and Mr. Benett"—(the letters were then inserted). I never wrote to Marshall—I am not connected with the turf—I go to races—I never made a book in ray life—the last race I went to, was the first day at Goodwood—I shortly afterwards received this statement and letter—it is the fair copy of the proof of the same circular—I received it immediately after the other one—this was addressed to the firm.

Cross-examined. Q. Will you take upon yourself to say that address is the handwriting of the defendant? A. No—it is my belief that it is his writing—I am a member of Tattersall's—an order was given to us for the Chinese Government, through Mr. Marshall in the first instance, and we supplied two 9-pouuders, described as Blakely's guns—I afterwards gave Captain Blakely orders, through Mr. Marshall, for the sake of giving Marshall a chance of getting a commission—he told me he would be satisfied with 2 l/2 per cent, and he squeezed 15 per cent, out of Captain Blakely—I think Captain Blakely was able to make his own arrangements, but I do not think he understood the arrangement between Mr. Marshall and myself—I should have to pay the amounts by bills and otherwise to Captain Blakely—I had a subpoena on the part of Marshall, and I believe I had a subpoena on the other side, but I was at Guildford at the time—I did not hand a single paper or invoice to the defendant's attorney on the day of the trial, nor did my clerk—I ordered the attorney out of my room, because he said if my clerk attempted to leave he would put him in gaol—I sent my clerk up to Loudon immediately, although I knew he had been subpoened as a witness—I am a director with Captain Blakely of the Tavistock Iron Works Company—I cannot swear whether Cunliffe and Beaumont are the solicitors to that Company—the business of the Iron Company has been carried on at 19, Mark-lane for ten days past, the offices are being repaired—I was just leaving my private office when I told my clerk to write that letter which has been read—I had read Marshall's letter then—it came in with the other letters—I have no doubt I read it—yes, I read that letter—what I said to Byrne, as nearly as I can recollect, was, "Here is a ridiculous letter from Mr. Marshall; write and tell him that I think Captain Blakely has been very hardly used. I have no expenses to charge, in fact I think he will have quite enough expenses to meet without them; and with regard to the bet, I neither recollect making him any offer, or his accepting any"—I read the next two letters from Marshall—I don't know whether Byrne was present when I read the one of 9th August—I did not, upon reading that, ask him what he had written to Mr. Marshall—I may have spoken to him about it before I received the printed document—I never recollect making an offer of a bet of

100 to 25 at any time—that would be 4 to 1—I did not think it necessary, as a gentleman, to reply to more than one letter from a person who was trying to extort money from me, except through my solicitors—I don't know that I should have degraded myself by so doing, but I thought it unadvis-able and unnecessary.

MR. METCALFE. Q. When you read this letter from Marshall, did you think that it showed that Byrne had complied with your directions? A. Yes—we have always business of importance, and I was extremely anxious that either myself or the head clerk should be in London, and that was the reason I sent him up—that is what I represented to the solicitors. ROBERT HENRY BYRNE. I am chief clerk to Mr. Benett.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you present at this trial at Guildford? A. Yes—T was there the day before—I never heard of a bet made of 100 to 25, or anything of the kind—I have never told Mr. and Mrs. Marshall that I heard of such a bet being made—decidedly not—I have never said that I heard Mr. Benett make a bet of 100 to 25 in Mark-lane—I had a subpoena to attend the trial—I was sent up to London about I or half-past on the day of the trial—it had not been called on at that time—I don't know that it was called on as I was leaving—I took a copy of that letter I wrote by Mr. Benett's direction, on 8th August—it was put in the public letter book—Mr. Benett often looks at that book—I did not give the letter to Mr. Benett after I wrote it—he gave me the instructions in a great hurry as he was going out, and that is what I recollected of the instructions I put in that letter what I was instructed as far as I could recollect—I did not see the letter that came the next day from Mr. Marshall, and Mr. Benett never said a word to me about it—I was at the "White Lion" at Guildford—Mr. Benett was there also—I recollect being in the room with him.

Q. Do you recollect bis making an offer there of 1000l. to 1l. about the trial? A. I remember his mentioning something of the kind—I cannot recollect what he did say—I was sitting at a table at the other end of the room—there was some conversation going on about the trial—I cannot remember properly what it was—I could not swear it was anything about 1000l. to 1l. at all—there was no bet offered—whatever was said was simply a saying.

COURT. Q. Was it in reference to the result of the trial? A. It was in reference to something about the trial—I did not pay sufficient attention to what it was really.

MR. SERJEANT ATKINSON. Q. What made you say to me just now that Mr. Beuett said something about 1000l. to 1l.? A. I did not intend to say that he made that observation—I am still in Mr. Benett's employ.

MR. METOALP. Q. Was Marshall at the "White Lion?" A. He was stopping there—he was not in the room with Mr. Benett—whatever was said, Marshall was not there.

FREDERICK WILLIAM PLATT . I am a son of the late Judge Piatt—I am Captain Blakely's secretary—I was present at the trial at Guildford—I remember the case being called on—I saw Mr. Benett there—I remember his being called, and his getting into the witness-box—I think he was called at the judge's suggestion—I heard him called, but I cannot exactly say who called him—he was not sworn, he gave no evidence at all—the verdict was taken by consent—Mr. Benett did not supply documents and invoices to Captain Blakely's advisers that I am aware of—I was taking a part in favour of Captain Blakely, who was then abroad—he was not able to be examined.

Cross-examined. Q. Can you say that Mr. Lush, your counsel, did not

call Mr. Benett? A. I cannot say—after he had gone partly through the statement he was stopped by the judge and asked to settle the case—the counsel then talked together—I heard Mr. Benett's name called, and then the jury gave their verdict for 475l.—that we have since paid—I was at the "White Lion" at the same time Mr. Benett was—I heard no conversation whatever about a wager on the result of this trial. MR. METCALF. Q. Then before the suggestion from the judge Mr. Marshall's witnesses had been called and his case concluded? A. Tea—Mr. Marshall did not call Mr. Benett—I believe the judge inquired whether Mr. Benett was in court—I believe he suggested that Mr. Benett should be called is far as I remember.

GUILTY .— Confined One Day, and to enter into recognizances to keep the peace for One Year, and fined 50l.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-965
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

965. EDWARD TRIVERTON (26) , Stealing a watch of George Bates, from his person.

MR. LANGFORD conducted the Prosecution. GEORGE BATES. I am a traveller living at Stratford-le-Bow—about 5 o'clock on the evening of 7th October I was in Gracechurch-street—there was a crowd on the stones—I was on the pavement by myself—while I was standing there, three or four men came up to me—the prisoner ran his elbows into Be, and hustled me, and pushed me against the window of a shop—I asked him what he meant by insulting me—he said they shoved him, he could not help it—I then saw my guard drop out of his hand as he led me—I looked to see if my watch was gone, and it was gone—the swivel was all right—it is spring swivel—I last saw my watch safe just before I crossed the road, sot more than two or three minutes before—I looked at it to see the time—I collared the prisoner immediately, and gave him in charge to a policeman—he said he knew nothing about it—the others were all gone then—I am sure that I saw my guard in the prisoner's hand.

Prisoner. Q. Did you say, "I have lost my watch?" A. Yes—the policeman said he would search you at the station. GEORGE BARFIELD (City-policeman, 555). On the evening of the 7th October, about 5 o'clock, I was on duty in Gracechurch-street—I saw a crowd of people round a cab—I went to see what was the matter, and the hut witness gave the prisoner into my custody—I searched him at the station, and found 2s. 4 1l 2d. on him—no watch—he gave a false address.

Prisoner's Defence, My back was to the prosecutor. I was pushed, and that was the reason I pushed against him.

GUILTY .—Be was further charged with having been before convicted of felony at this Court in October, 1861, in the name of Thomas Jones; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY.**— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-966
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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966. CHARLES CARPENTER DAY (27) , PLEADED GUILTY to Embezzling and stealing the sums of 2l. 3s. 4d. and 2l. 9s. of Charles Southgate Recommended to mercy by the prosecutor,— Confined Three Months.

FOURTH COURT.—Wednesday, October 26th, 1864.

Before Mr. Recorder,

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-967
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

967. JOHN MCCARTHY (26) , Feloniously wounding William Kenny with intent to do grievous bodily harm. Second Count, to resist his lawful apprehension.

MESSRS. BEASLEY and ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution, and MR. DALEY

the Defence.

CHARLES STENNER (Policeman, K 439). On Saturday night, 1st October, I was on duty in St. George's-street, St. George's—there was a disturbance there about 12 o'clock—a man complained to me of being assaulted, and pointed the prisoner out—while I was speaking, the prisoner came up, and said, "What the have you to do with it? I could tight a dozen like you"—he struck me in the mouth, and knocked me against the shutters—I then took him info custody, and lie struck and kicked me several times—a public carriage attendant came to my assistance, and he was knocked down—Policemen Hart and Kenny then came up—Kenny assisted in getting me up—I heard him say, "I am stabbed"—I looked round, and saw him on the ground; his face was covered with blood—Sergeant Dillon then came up, and asked the prisoner to go quietly to the station—he went five or six yards, and then threw himself down, and said he would be d—if he would go for any one; he would not be taken by a dozen men—it took four constables to get him to the station.

Cross-examined. Q. Had you said anything to the prisoner before he came up? A. No—there was not a crowd of several hundred people there, but there was afterwards—there were 200 or 300 people when Kenny came up—the prisoner was with Julia and Margaret McCarthy at the time the complaint was made to me—I did not find a knife, but there was one found—I did not see Hart stabbed with a knife; I only saw the blood.

GEORGE HART (Policeman, K J 54). I was called to a disturbance in St. George's on the night of the 1st of October—I saw the prisoner in the custody of Stenner—he had hold of Stenner by the collar, and was striking him in the face—I took hold of him by the collar, and he kicked me on the knee, and knocked me down—Kenny came up next—as soon as he came up, he shouted out, "Hold him tight, Hart; I am stabbed"—I turned round, and saw the blood running from his coat—there was a great disturbance at this time—the prisoner was very violent on the way to the station—he kicked and plunged about a great deal—there was a crowd of about 400 or 500 people.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you see the commencement of the disturbance? A. No—Kenny came up after me—I did not see him stabbed—a small knife was found in the prisoner's pocket.

WILLIAM KENNY (Policeman, K 390). I went to this disturbance—I found the prisoner in the custody of Stenner—Stenner was on the ground—I got. him on his feet, and then I got hold of the prisoner by the collar of his coat—he struck me twice above the eye with a knife—I said to Hart, Hold him tight: he ha stabbed me"—I took the knife from him, but lost it in the struggle—I do not believe this (produced) is the knife—we found this on him at the station—after I was stabbed, I received a blow on the back of my head with a brick—I was very nearly senseless—I was under the care of Mr. Ross, the surgeon, for eight days—my eye is still very weak.

Cross-examined. Q. Was there a crowd of about 400 or 500 people? A. Yes—they were trying to take the prisoner from us—there were three or four constables there when I got there—I think Sergeant Dillon came up last—the knife was not searched for on the spot where I was stabbed. EDWARD DILLON (Police-sergeant, K 19). I went to this disturbance—

there was a crowd of 400 or 500 people—I saw the prisoner there—he was kicking and plunging violently—Hart had hold of him—I saw Stenner and Kenny bleeding in the face—they appeared quite exhausted—"I said to the prisoner. "Stand up, and walk quietly. You have been in trouble before, and ought to know better"—he said, "Yes, I will go with you;" and stood up—he walked ten or fifteen yards quietly, and he said, "I am b——if I go any further"—he they threw himself down, and commenced kicking and plunging violently—it took four constables to take him to the station.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you see the stab given? A. No.

DANIEL Ross. I am a surgeon, and live at No. 10, Commercial-terrace, Commercial-road—I was called to the Police-station on the morning in question, and found Kenny bleeding from a punctured wound immediately beneath the left eyebrow—the wound took a downward course immediately beneath the skin of the upper eyelid—it was. caused by a narrow, sharp-pointed instrument—he was suffering from other slight wounds—the small blade of a knife would cause such a wound as that over the left eye—I attended him eight or nine days.

Cross-examined. Q. Would a stone have caused such a wound, or a hairpin? A. No—the wound was wide enough to admit the broad end of my probe—I probed it a quarter of an inch—I don't think a wound caused by a hair-pin would have admitted my probe.


24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-968
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > with recommendation
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment; Imprisonment; Imprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

968. JOHN MCCARTHY (26), was again indicted, with ORLANDO MASALINI (20), GEORGE FURLOUGH (20), JULIA MCCARTHY (21), and MARGARET MCCARTHY (18). for assaulting Charles Stenner, William Kenny, and Edward Dillon, police-constables, in the execution of their duty.

MESSRS. BEASLEY and ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution, and MR. DALEY defended Julia and Margaret McCarthy. CHARLES STENNER. On Saturday night, the 1st of October, I was on duty in St. George's-street, St. George's—a man pointed out John McCarthy to me—when I was about taking him into custody, Julia and Margaret McCarthy came up—they took hold of my coat behind, and knocked me about the head, and kicked me several times, and Julia caught hold of my stock—Knight, a public carriage attendant, came to my assistance, and he was knocked down by Margaret McCarthy—Hart then came up, and I saw Margaret McCarthy strike him several times with her fist—we took John McCarthy to the station, and the two women followed—I was in my uniform.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you see the faces of the two female prisoners plainly? A. Yes.

THOMAS KNIGHT . I am a hackney-carriage attendant, and live at Ratcliff-street, St. George's-in-the-East—on 1st October, I was on duty in Ratcliff-highway, and saw McCarthy there—I saw him assault Constable Stenner—Margaret McCarthy then came up—she took hold of the constahle by the collar, and struck him several times on the side of the head—I pulled her away, and as soon as I did so, she struck me in the face—I was struck and kicked from behind, and knocked down—when I got up she had hold of Stenner, and was punching him.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you there all the time the row lasted? Q. No; I went to the station for further assistance—I cannot swear to Julia McCarthy. GEORGE HART (Policeman, K 154). I was on duty this night—I was

struck down by John McCarthy, and whilst I was down Margaret McCarthy came up—she struck me several times in the face, and she said, "Let him go, you b——; I will do six months for you"—on the way to the station, Masalini came up, and said something I could not understand—he struck me a violent blow in the chest, and knocked me down—he then ran away into the crowd—he came up again, and struck Sergeant Dillon on the back of the head—he then ran away Again—after we had taken John McCarthy to the station, I and Sergeant Dillon went back, and took Masalini into custody.

Cross-examined. Q. Can you indentify Julia McCarthy? A. No. WILLIAM KENNY (Police-constable, K 390). I was called to this row about 12 o'clock, on Saturday night, 1st of October—I found John, Julia, and Margaret McCarthy kicking Stenner while on the ground; I have not the slightest doubt about the two female prisoners being those I saw kicking Stenner—Margaret McCarthy struck me on the back of the head several times with a stone—Masalini and Furlough both jumped on me while I was down-Margaret McCarthy bit me in the left hand—I have the mark now.

EDWARD DILLON (Police-sergeant, K 19). I went to this disturbance—whilst I was assisting in getting John McCarthy to the station. Masalini came behind me, and struck me on the head—after we got John McCarthy to the station, I went back with Hart and took Masalini into custody—when he saw me coining he ran away, but we caught him in the crowd—I recognize all the prisoners as being in the row—I have known the two women for years.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you quite sure Julia McCarthy was there? A. Yes.

WILLIAM BECKLEY (Police-constable, 344). I was called to this disturhance—I was in my uniform—I found the prisoners knocking a brother officer about—Furlough struck me three or four times on the bare head with this stick (produced).

Witness for the Defence. HENRY LEIGH. I know Julia McCarthy—she was with me on this night, from 8 o'clock till half-past 12—she never left my company not two minutes together—whilst we were sitting on a door-step, a man named Turner came up and said to Julia McCarthy, "Do you know your brother is locked up?"—she said, "No; I will go and see if it is true"—she left me. and I heard in the morning that she had been locked up.

Cross-examined by MR. BEASLEY. Q. Are you quite certain you did not leave her before half-past 12? A. Yes; it might have been a little later—we were in the Marquis of Wellington, in Corn wall-street, from 8 o'clock till five minutes to 12—it is about 300 or 400 yards from Ratcliffe-highway—when we came out of the Marquis of Wellington, we sat on a door-step till the man Turner came up—I am a married man, but my wife has left me, and gone to New Zealand.

EDWARD DILLON (re-called) Q. Were you at the police-station when Julia McCarthy was taken into custody? A. Yes; she was brought to the station at a quarter past 12—the station is about a minute and a half's walk from where the disturbance took place.

GUILTY .—JOHN McCARTHY.**— Seven Years Penal Servitude.

MARGARET MCCARTHY. *— Confined Eighteen Months.

JULIA McCARTHY, recommended to mercy.Confined Four Month.

MASALINI.— Confined Six Months.

FURLOUGH— Confined Six Months.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-969
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

969. WILLIAM HENRY BROWN (32) , Feloniously forging and uttering a warrant and order for the payment of money, with intent to defraud.

MR. ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution.

J. B. SILVESTER. I am a member of the firm of Gough and Silvester, of Birmingham—we have an office in Ely-place—in December last year, the prisoner was in our employ as town-traveller—on 15th or 16th December, I spoke to him. about something not being quite clear in his accounts—that was the last time I saw him, until October last—this letter (produced) we received from him on the 9th of October—this cheque (produced) is payable to the order of Gough and Silvester, and the endorsement is in the prisoner's handwriting—he had no authority to endorse the name of the firm on cheques—the cheque was paid to him, and ought to have been forwarded to us—he has not accounted to us for the money.

Prisoner. That signature is no copy, or an attempt to copy the signature of the firm—when I signed that, I had no intention of committing forgery—I was in the constant habit of receiving cheques, payable to order, and I had to sign the firm's name on the back—I had no idea the charge of forgery would be brought against me.

Witness. I was not aware that he had ever signed our names to our cheques—that cheque was paid to the prisoner in settlement of our account.

Prisoner. I had to pay the cheques into the London bankers, and if I had not endorsed them, they would not have received them.

Witness. This in the prisoner's handwriting—it is not disguised in any way.

SYDNEY SMITH . I live at 52, Long-lane—I gave the prisoner a cheque in payment of our account—he gave me a receipt—sometime after we were again applied to for payment by Messrs. Gough and Silvester.

Prisoner. I do not deny receiving the cheque; I deny having endorsed it with any intention to commit forgery.


24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-970
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

970. WILLIAM HENRY BROWN was again indicted for Embezzling 4l. 6s., 16l. 15s., and 25l. 2s., the moneys of John Bartleet Silvester, and another, his masters; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Five Years' Penal Servitude. The prosecutor stated the prisoner's deficiency to amount to 1,500l.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-971
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

971. JOHN FREEMAN (33), JOHN HARRINGTON (16), ALFRED SNELLING (19), WILLIAM WILBERD (31), and GEORGE WARD (24) , Stealing 40 quires of a periodical called the "Guide," the property of— Johnson, and others.

MR. DALEY conducted the Prosecution.

JOSEPH STOKES . I am in the employ of Messrs. Johuson, of 332, Strand, who are the publishers of a periodical called the "Guide"—on the 14th of October, between 12 and 1 o'clock, I had forty bundles of the "Guide" in a van (there are forty quires in a bundle) I was going to deliver them at Mr. Clarke's, in Warwick-lane—between Somerset House and Ludgatehill I missed one of the bundles—this (produced) is part of it—the forty quires were worth 1l. 6s. 8d.—I saw ten of the quires at the police-court.

JAMES HANN . I am a City detective—on the evening of 14th October, I was in the Green Dragon public-house with Legge, another officer—I saw Harrington and Snelling with a bundle of the papers in front of them—I asked Harrington if those papers belonged to him—he said they did not belong to him; they belonged to the other one—I took him into custody—on Saturday morning, 15th of October, I went to Mr. Bowering's shop, in the Blackfriars-road—I there saw Ward; I asked him if he had received any copies of a periodical called the "Guide"—he said, "Yes, I bought ten

quire"—he said he bad given six shillings, or six shillings and eightpence, I won't be sure which, for them—the "Guides" were produced by Mr. Bowering, in Ward's presence; they were lying on the counter—I said, "You know you bought these 'Guides' a day before they were published"—he said, "Yes; I have been told so since"—he said he bought them of a man named Wilberd.

GEOKGE LEGOE . I am a City-detective—I was in company with the last witness on the 14th October, in the Green Dragon—I saw Snelling, Wilberd, Harrington, and Freeman there—I asked them if that brown-paper parcel belonged to either of them—they said, "No," it did not belong to either of them—I spoke to them separately, and they answered separately—I took Harrington and Snelling to the station; at the station Snelling was searched, and one of the "Guides" found in his possession—I went back, but the other two prisoners had gone.

EDWARD BECKETT . I am in the employ of Messrs. Purkiss, of Compton-street, Soho—On Friday evening 14th October, I lost a bag containing some books and periodicals—I went to the Three Horse Shoes, in Milford-lane, and there saw Snelling—he had a brown-paper parcel—as I left the house Freeman came up to me, and asked if I wanted Bill—I then saw him speak to Wilberd—shortly afterwards I met Ward in the Strand—I told him I had lost a bag that afternoon—he said he had not got it, but thought "they" had—I thought he meant Snelling—he said he had bought ten quire of "Guides" of "them"—I saw Snelling, Wilberd and Freeman coming from Milford-lane—Snelling had a brown-paper parcel under his left arm—I followed them down Fleet-street, and then missed them—Harriogton was not with them—I gave information to the police.

AMELIA GRAY . I am the wife of William Alexander Gray, of 20, Poppin's-court, Fleet-street, printer—I was in the Green Dragon, on Friday, the 14th—I saw Wilberd, Freeman, and Snelling; Snelling had a bundle of papers in front of him—he said "I cannot get rid of any more of the papers"—Wilberd said, "I shall not share a farthing of the money until the papers are got rid of"—Freeman said. "Act like a man, and share the money at once"—they appeared to be quarrelling.

ROBERT FREDERICK BOWERING . I am a news-agent, of 21, Blackfriars-road—Ward was in employment—I remember his bringing ten quires of the "Guide," to my shop—I had not given him any orders to buy them—he said he had bought them of Mr. Clarke's man—he charged me six shillings and eightpence for them.

JURY. Q. Would that be a fair price? A. Yes, that would be the regular price—I had never bought anything of him before.

Ward. Q. Do you not sometimes give me 10l. or 20l. to go up the "Row" to buy things without being aware of what I am going to bring in? A. Yes, that is correct.

The prisoner Ward received a good character.


SNELLING— GUILTY . Confined Twelve Months.

WILBERD.— GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

FREEMAN.— GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-972
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

972. GEORGE ALBERT THEAKSTONE (24) , stealing 5l. the moneys of his employer, Frederick Thomas.

MR. RIBTON conducted the Prosecution. CHAS. JAB. DAVIDSON. I am the manager of Mr. 'Thomas's establishment in

Newgate-street—the prisoner was employed as a clerk—Mr. Bayliss is a customer of ours—he owed us some money—this receipt (produced) is in the prisoner's writing—the last counterpart of the receipt-book was missing—this cheque would correspond exactly with that counterpart—the prisoner bad access to the letters when they arrived—he left us without giving notice.

Prisoner. Q. Was not there an advertisement in the paper for a clerk, and did not Mr. Thomas give me notice to leave three weeks before I did? A. Yes—you applied to stop a week or two longer, but you left in the middle of a week.

ROBERT BAYLISS . I am a tailor and draper at Shiplake, in Oxfordshire—I was indebted to Mr. Thomas—on 4th September I sent him in a letter the half of a 5l. note, and in another letter the other half—a receipt was forwarded to me; this is it (produced)—I was applied to for the money again afterwards.

ROBERT ROBINS FLETCHER . I am manager at the bank at Stratford-on-Avon—I have brought this note (produced) from the bank—it was returned by our agents. Smith, Payne, and Smith, in the usual way.

BENJAMIN ADAMS (Police-constable,244). I apprehended the prisoner on the 15th October in Old-street, St. Luke's—I asked him if his name was Headstone, and he said, "No, you must have made a mistake"—I told him I did not think I had, and I took him into custody—he refused to give his address.

C. J. DAVIDSON (re-called). That 5l. has never been received by Mr. Thomas—the account in the ledger has been altered from 16l. 15s. to 11l. 15s.—the prisoner had access to the books—Mr. Thomas is in Italy; he has been absent throe weeks

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Month

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-973
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown

Related Material

973. JOHN WEST (24), and GEORGE GLEED (40) , Feloniously forging and uttering a request for the delivery of goods.

MR. DALEY conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE DAVIS . I am in the service of the Misses Wright, of Crouch End, Hornsey—I remember West coming to my mistress's shop on the 23d of September, about twenty minutes past 4—he asked for some patterns of some Welsh linen, and other goods—he said he came from Mr. Poulton, who kept the Compasses—he returned in about au hour with this order (produced) for a quantity of goods; he wanted to take the goods with him, hut Miss Wright said he could not take them with him, she would send them down, as they would take some little time to do up—he went way, and I followed him to the "Compasses"—about 300 yards from Miss Wright's shop I saw Gleed; he spoke to West—I then went and saw Mr. Poulton, and from what he said I gave information to the police—a piece of paper was found on Gleed, which corresponded with the order.

Cross-examined by MR. LANGPORD, (for West.) Q. Did West say he came from Mr. Poulton's? A. Yes.

WILLIAM POULTON . I keep the Compasses public-house at Hornsey—I never authorized any one to write or present the order produced, or to go to Miss Wright's for goods for me—I remember the two prisoners coming to my house on the day in question, and having a pint of beer—they stood at the bar and drank it.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY, (for Gleed.) Q. What time was it when you saw Gleed? A. About 2 o'clock—Gleed paid for what they had to drink—I do not remember West asking me for some waste paper, nor yet for any writing paper—I was behind the bar about ten minutes whilst they

were standing there—I do not know how long they remained in the house—my niece serves in the bar, as well as myself—she is not here.

JAMES GALL (Police-constable, S 276). I watched the prisoners on the 23d of September—I was in plain clothes—I followed West to Miss Wright's shop—he went in, and I stood at the door; I heard him say, "I have come for some table linen similar to pattern"—he laid the order produced upon the counter—I took him into custody—ho said, if I did not write the order, my mate outside wrote it"—I gave West into the charge of another officer, and took Gleed into custody—he said he knew nothing at all about West—when at the station West said, "That is the man that wrote the order," pointing to Gleed—I searched Gleed, and found a pen and ink, and some circulars upon him.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Q. Where was it you took Gleed into custody? A. In the Back-lane, Hornsey, about three-quarters of a mile from Miss Wright's shop—when West said, "That is the man who wrote it," Gleed denied it—he said he did not know anything about any orders.

CHARLOTTE SLADE NORMAN . I am shopwoman at Miss Wright's—I remember the prisoner West coming to Miss Wright's shop between 2 and 3 in the afternoon of the 23d of September—he asked for some patterns.

Cross-examined by MR. LANGFORD. Q. You reside with Miss Wright, do you not? A. Yes—our house is about three-quarters of a mile from the Compasses.


WEST— GUILTY . *— Confined Eighteen Months. There was another indictment against West.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-974
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

Related Material

974. WILLIAM SKIFFINS (26), PLEADED GUILTY to unlawfully wounding Hugh M'Phereon.— Judgment Respited.

NEW COURT.—Thursday, October 27th, 1864.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-975
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

Related Material

975. THOMAS SMITHERS (17) , Feloniously attempting to murder Charlotte Lucy Russell.

MR. CUNNINGHAM conducted the Prosecution, and MR. MONTAGU WILLIAMS

the Defence.

CHARLOTTE LUCY RUSSELL . I am getting on for six years old—I know that boy (the Prisoner); his name is Tom—I remember his taking me out for a walk; he first took me to his own house, and then down Lea-bridge, where he put me in a ditch with water in it—I was not covered with water—I was not there long—after I got out I did not wait long before I saw two young men; they took me home.

Cross-examined. Q. That boy has often taken you out before, has he not? A. Yes—he was always very kind to me; he used to play with me a good deal, and amuse mo, and buy mo sweets sometimes—I do not remember his telling me he was going to take me to see a piece of garden ground near Lea-bridge, where he used to work—I waited at his mothers door while he went to the house—he said that he had two homes—this was a dirty ditch; there was not very much water in it—the two men were close by where T was screaming.

COURT. Q. You know Tom very well; has he often been for a walk with you? A. He used to take me to his own home—he had hold of my hand

on this afternoon, but did not talk to me—he took me up like a baby, and threw me into the ditch—I was walking till I got to the ditch—then he said, "Shall I take you up? n—I said, "Yes"—and then he took me in his anus—it was in the fields; there was no path—he threw me in directly he took me up, and then ran away—I saw nothing more of him—I got out, and cried.

JAMES RUSSEIX . I am a wood-carver, of 43, Singleton-street, Hoxton—this is my child; her name is Charlotte Louisa Russell—she is five years and seven months old—the prisoner has been in my employment nearly six years as papering-up boy—on 5th October, about 10 o'clock in the morning, he said, "It is my sister's birthday to-day"—I said, "Which one?"—he said, "The little one"—I said, "How old is she to-day?"—he said, "Ten years"—in the course of the day he said that there was to be a tea-party at his mother's—he did not exactly ask me, but I understood that my child was to go—she was to be taken there when he went to his own tea, and he was to return at his half-hour, and leave her at his mother's, which is about five minutes' walk off—she went away between 4 and half-past—he waited while some of her clothes were put on to make her smart—I next saw her about half-past 9; she was brought to me by two young men, Chapman and Tooke, wrapped up in a man's flannel shirt and Tooke's coat—her own clothes were in a bundle, and were ringing wet and dirty—I afterwards went with Chapman and Tooke to a ditch near the railway, in Hackney-marshes—there was about eighteen inches of water and eighteen inches of soft mud; it was about eight feet broad on the surface of the water—I put a stick in and tried the depth—that was at the place to which my attention was directed, and where the plank was pointed out to me by which they got across to get the child.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know how the ditch is fed, as to whether the depth at different times is different? A. In rainy weather it would be deeper, but the weather was dry, and the water was not so deep as it ordinarily is.

COURT. Q. When were you shown the ditch? A. On the following Sunday—I did not take the child with me—her clothing is in the same state now except that it is dry—these are her drawers; they were put on clean when she went out—she was wide awake when she was brought home—her clothing had been removed—she made a complaint, and named somebody upon which I gave information to the police—I had seen the prisoner at a quarter-past 4—I saw him next in the middle of the night, 2 o'clock, at the police-station—I said nothing to him—the place in the ditch which was pointed out to me is 6 miles or more from his mother's house.

JAMES CHAPMAN. I am a flower-maker, of 22, Union-street, Hoxton—on 5th October I had been digging a garden, and heard the word "Murder!" called out—I went outside, but could not see anybody—I hallooed out, "Come here, come here," and the screams came closer to us—it was between 7 and 8 o'clock—it was dark—the sounds came nearer, and at last I could see somebody across the fence—there was a ditch to get over, and my friend Tooke, who was with me, got a plank, got over the ditch, and found it was a little girl—she was very wet, and her head and hair were wet—I brought her across the plank and gave her to Tooke—she told us where she lived, and we took her to the Greyhound public-house—I have examined the ditch; there was about a foot and a half of water in it, and two and a half feet of mud.

Cross-examined. Q. How far is this ditch from the nearest part of the

river Lea? A. The river Lea is on the other side of the field, about two yards off—it is a deep river—when I saw the child she was on the bank on the other side—she complained of what had happened to her, and named somebody as having done it.

ALERED TOOKE . I am a painter, and live at 27, Ash by-terrace, Hoxton—I was with Chapman—I have heard what he has said—it is all true.

BENJAMIN SMITH . I am waiter at the Greyhound tavern, Lea-bridge-road—on 5th October this child was brought there—her clothes were ringing wet—I assisted to take them off, and she was taken away by the two witnesses—I know the ditch; there is a foot-path not far from it across the fields—I have never been along this path.

COURT (to JAMES CHAPMAN). Q. Do you know the ditch pretty well? A. No; I have only been there five or six days—it is between Lea-bridge and Stratford, nearer London than Lea-bridge station.

ELIZABETH SMITH KRS . I am a widow, and live at 8, Britannia-fields, City-road—the prisoner is my son—he brought this child to my door on 5th October, but I was not at home.

Cross-examined. Q. Was he in the habit of bringing her to your house and taking her out? A. Yes, frequently—he is a boy of nervous temperament, and weak—he suffers with his head very much—his conduct towards children was most affectionate—he has been six years with his master—he has been working at some gardens at Lea-bridge; he went there on Sunday for one of Mr. Russell's workmen, and brought her some flowers, and gave his master some.

JOHN KNIGHT . I am a wood-carver—I know the prisoner—I have worked with him—on Wednesday morning, 3rd October, he asked me if a boy as old as he was to commit a murder, whether he would be hung—I said—"I do not know; I believe they have been hung at eighteen, but I do not know whether they have at seventeen"—nothing had been said to lead to that conversation—he had his coat and hat on, and was going out.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you often converged with the prisoner on the public papers 1 A. Yes; we have talked about criminal cases—I believe he was seventeen last birthday.

CROSS (Policeman, 429 N) On 6th October, about a quarter to 2 in the morning, I saw the prisoner in the Kingsland-road—I said, "What are you doing here at this hour of the morning?"—he said, "Nothing"—I said, "Are you waiting for any one?" as he was standing still—he said, "No"—he was twenty or thirty yards from the station, and I asked him if he wanted any one in the station—he said, "No"—I said, "Where do you liver—he said, "82, Britannia-street, City-road—I said, "Who do you work for?"—he said, "Mr. Russell, of 42, Singleton-street"—I said, "This is a curious time of morning for you to be out"—he said, "Yes; have you heard anything of a child's being lost?"—I said, "No, I have not; if you have lost one you had better go into the station and inquire"—he said, "No, I do not want to do that"—I said, "Why not; have you been in?"—he said, "No"—I said, "Then what is the reason you do not go in"—he said, "I took her away myself"—I said, "From where?"—he said, "From 43, Singleton-street—I said, "What time did you take her away?"—he said, "About half-past 4 yesterday afternoon"—I said, "Then, of course, you know where she is; if you do you had better go and bring her home again, or tell me"—he said, 'She is all right; I have put her where her friends will never see her any more, nor yet anyone else"—I said, "Well, you had better tell mc, so that I can restore her to her friends again; if you

do not I shall take you to the station"—he said that be should not tell me any more—I took him to the station, made inquiries, heard that a child had been lost, went to the father's house, and there I saw her, and the father came down.

Cross-examined. Q. How long ago was this? A. Three weeks to-day—he gave me his name and address, and told me where his master lived—his words were not "I am afraid she is where her friends will not find her," but "Where her friends will never see her more, nor anyone else"—I have said I that before—I was examined before the Magistrate,—my deposition was read over to me and I signed it—I swear that I have used those words before "or anybody else."

The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate:—"I let her fall in by accident If is not true what Mr. Knight has said."


Recommended to mercy by the Jury and prosecutor.— Judgment respited.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-976
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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976. JOHN THOMPSON (33) , Feloniously cutting and wounding Stephen Barry, with intent to do him some grievous bodily harm.

MR. OPPENHEIM conducted the Prosecution, STEPHEN BARRY. I lived, in October, at 1, Glasshouse-street, White-chapel—I now live at 46, Went worth-street—I am a cooper—on 2d October, about ten minutes past 3 in the afternoon, the prisoner, who was ft lodger in my house, came to my room—my door was locked, but I was outside in the passage; it is on the ground-floor—he shoved the door open, and I said, "What did you do that for?"—he replied, "Have you got any money?"—I said, "What is that to do with you whether I have or not?—we both went into the room together; there was a table-knife on the table, and he said, "I will give you something; I will do for you," and took the knife off the table, and stabbed it into my right wrist—it bled—I called for assistance, and he ran out of the house—I followed him, and gave him in charge—I did not find the knife—a doctor examined me.

Prisoner. I deny having used the knife at all, and I can prove that if could not have been done with a knife, because he wore a blue guernsey. Witness. I did, but I had the sleeve tucked up in this way—I did not tuck it up afterwards—we had no quarrel—I have known you five or six years—you had nowhere to go, and I took pity on you and gave you a lodging—you have knocked me about before.

THOMAS FITZGERALD (Policeman, 189 H). On 2d October Barry gave the prisoner into my custody, charged with cutting with a knife—he said he knew nothing about it—Barry's arm was bleeding.

Prisoner. Q. Did you find me running away? A. No, you were in the same street, about a hundred yards from where it happened—Barry was not holding you, but he was standing in front of you—you were drunk.

HOWARD DILWARD , M. D. I am a surgeon, of 2, Spital-square—on 2d October, I examined the prosecutor at the station, and found him bleeding from an incised wound of the wrist, about three inches long, which had divided the radial artery—it was a serious wound for the time—it might have been inflicted by a table-knife.

Prisoner. Q. Would not the sharp iron latch of a door have done it? 4. No; it was too sharp-cut for that, and there was no bruise or laceration—I attended him up to this time; he is going on well.

The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate;—"live with this young nun. We had been drinking yesterday forenoon, both together, and when I came home he was home before me. I asked him for the key of the room.

He made a laugh of it, and said he would not open it for me. I put my foot to the door and knocked it in; he came round and struck me on both eyes and cut my mouth. We were both in liquor, and in tumbling about, he fell, and cut himself. I do not know how to account for that."

STEPHEN BARRY (re-examined). I did not strike him, but my blood spurted on to his face.

Prisoner's Defence. We had both been drinking all Saturday night, and Sunday as well. It was not done with a knife.

GUILTY of unlawfully wounding. Confined Four Months.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-977
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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977. ANDRE MIREAU (28) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Thomas Fowler, and stealing therein 1 pair of trousers, 5 pipes, and other articles, his property. Second count, feloniously receiving the same.

MR. THOMPSON conducted the Prosecution. The evidence was interpreted to the prisoner.

THOMAS FOWLER . I am a tailor of 84, Kingsland-road—on 12th August I went to bed about ten minutes past 11—I examined the doors and windows—the house was then safe—I was called up by the police at about a quarter to 3, and found the kitchen window shutter removed, and the window open. I missed a loose grey coat, two pair of trousers, a waistcoat, and a cloth cloak, an umbrella, some briar-root pipes, and five meerschaum ones; 1l. 15s. in money, and a cigar-case—these pipes (produced) are mine; they were in the shop window—the value of the property altogether is about 8l.—my house is in the parish of St. Leonard, Shoreditch—I never saw the prisoner before.

WILLIAM WHITE (Police-sergeant, D 23). This hat (produced) was given to me, and sealed in the lining of it I found a duplicate relating to five meerschaum pipes, which I found at Mr. Saddler's next morning, 18th August—the prisoner was taken on 24th September—he was remanded several times.

CHARLES HARRISS . I am assistant to Mr. Saddler, a pawnbroker, of 79, Snow-hill—I produce these pipes and a duplicate—they were pledged by the prisoner in the name of James Heudrich, on 15th August, between 10 and 12 o'clock.

The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate: "It is true it was me who pledged the pipes, but the person who brought them to me told me he had bought them, and I did not know where they came from. He said he was going to Paris. I have never seen him since. It is to-morrow five weeks not me who stole them.

prisoner's Defence. I took the pipes to the pawnshop, but it was not me who stole them.

GUILTY on second count. Five Years Penal Servitnde. There was another indictment for burglary against the prisoner.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-978
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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978. JAMES MAHER (22) , Stealing 1 purse and 21. in money, the property of Mary Steed, from her person.

MR. HORRY conducted the Prosecution, and MR. COLLINS the Defence.

MARY STEED . I live at Eaton, near Norwich—on 4th October, about half-past 9 in the morning, I was at the ticket-office of the North-London Railway, Fenchurch-street—I had two nephews with me—I had a purse with two sovereigns and some more money in it—the prisoner came up to me, put his right hand in my pocket, and shook it—I put my hand down and felt his hand pass—I then followed him towards the stove, which was about the length of this court, and said, "You have stolen my purse"—he said,

"I have no puree about me"—I told him I felt his hand in ray pocket—he made no answer—another man was sitting on a bench near the stove, and the prisoner went near him and shook himself—I gave him in custody.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you dressed as you are now? A. Yes—my pocket was the same as this, or it might be a little forwarder—I had been two minutes in the ticket place, and my two nephews were getting the tickets about a yard and a half from me—the prisoner was too quick for me to catch hold of his hand, but I never lost sight of him—there might be a dozen people in the ticket-office—I followed him, and took hold of his cloak before he got up to the stove and charged him—my younger nephew saw it; he is not here—he is fourteen, and the other, who was paying for the tickets, is seventeen—we came to Fenchurch-street in an omnibus.

MR. HORRY. Q. At the time the prisoner came up to you was there any I other person near you? A. No—I felt my purse safe after I left the omnibus.

FREDERICK MANN (City-policeman, 512). On 4th October, about half-past 9 o'clock, Miss Steed gave the prisoner into ray charge for stealing her puree from her pocket—he said, "I have not got the purse"—I searched him and found 2s. 1l. 11/2d. and a watch and guard on him—he had an Inverness cape round his neck.

Cross-examined. Q. Was he wearing the watch and chain and ring in I their proper places? A. Yes—he did not say he did not steal the purse, I bat he had not got it—he said that he had not taken it.

COURT. Q. You said two or three times that he did not say so, but said that he had not got the purse? A. He said, "I have not got your purse."

GUILTY .—He was further charged with having been before convicted.

GEORGE HAYTER . I am a warder at the city prison at Holloway—I produce—I dace a certificate: (Read: "Central Criminal Court, May, 1863. John Montague, convicted of stealing a puree and money from the person of Catherine Holton.—Confined Six Months. ")—I had him in my custody at Holloway—the prisoner is the man.

GUILTY.— Confined Eighteen Months.

FOURTH COURT.—Thursday, October 27th, 1864.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-979
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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979. WILLIAM YOUNG (21) , Burglariously entering the dwelling-house of John Geddes, on the 12th of September, and stealing.

MR. F. H. LEWIS conducted the Prosecution, and MR. RIBTON the Defence,

JOHN GEDDES . I am a wine merchant at 40, and 180, Bishopsgate-street—on the night of 12th September I went to bed at 1 o'clock—ray premises were all locked up then—I was aroused about ten minutes to 4 in the morning; I saw some person in the yard—I went downstairs and found a light in the bar—I looked out and saw two men; one shorter than the other getting over my wall—I could not swear to the prisoner—he decamped—I shouted, "Police!"—I then examined my premises, and found they had been broken open—I found that a quantity of old copper coin had been taken away, and 5l. worth of silver—I also missed some silver sugar-tongs and spoons—the money was kept in some bags in the cupboard.

Cross-examined. Q. What else did you miss? A. The till had been broken open and cleared of about 50a. worth of coppers—I saw the silver sugartongs

the night before hanging in the cupboard—I do not know what property I lost altogether—there is no one here who can tell.

MR. F. H. LEWIS. Q. Can you swear to these two bags (produced) as your property? A. Yes; I recognise it by the mark that is upon it—there is "16" upon it.

RICHARD DENNIS (City-policeman, 634). I was on duty in New-street, Bishopsgate—a little after 4 o'clock I saw two men running—the prisoner is one of them—while they were running I heard some money fall from them—I raised an alarm, and shortly afterwards found the prisoner in the custody of another officer—I found three spoons and skeleton key that had been dropped by one of the men running—the prisoner was searched at the station, and 5l. in gold and 4l. 10s. in silver found upon him—these bags (produced) contain copper money—they were taken out of the prisoner's pocket.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you recollect who searched him? A. Macintyre—I was present—I saw the copper taken out of his pocket—there was 19s. 1 3/4d.—the silver was also taken out of his pocket; 4l. 10s. and a half-sovereign—the silver consisted of sixpences, threepenny pieces, and four-penny-pieces—I did not see the bags taken out of his pocket—my back was turned when they were taken out—when I first saw the two men they were about ten yards off—it was dark—I do not know who the other man was.

JOHN MACINTYRE (City-policeman, 675). I was on duty in Bishopsgate-street on the morning of 12th September—T saw two men running from the direction of New-street—the prisoner is one of them—I followed them and took the prisoner into custody—he was "siding" in a door in Houndsditch—the other man escaped—I asked the prisoner if he had any money on him—he said, "Yes, about 16s."—I searched him at the station—the bags were in his coat pockets; one in each pocket.

GUILTY .— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-980
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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980. JOHN WRIGHT (33) , Stealing a watch from the person of William Gann.

MR. WALLACE HARDING conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM GANN . I am an oyster salesman, at 23, Fish-street-hill—on the evening of the 3d of this month I was in Gracechurch-street a few minutes after 10 o'clock—there was a crowd collected, and I stopped and looked on—I was standing on the kerbstone—the prisoner was standing a few yards in front of me for some time—a person in the crowd said to me, "Mind your watch"—I looked down and saw my watch in the prisoner's hand, and I heard the ring snap—I caught hold of the prisoner and held him till a constable came up.

ANN OLIVER . I am a married woman and reside with my husband at No. 1, Swan-yard—on this night I was in Gracechurch-street about 10 o'clock, in a crowd—I saw the prosecutor standing about a yard and a half from me, and the prisoner near him—I saw the prisoner lift the watch out of the prosecutor's pocket—I called out, "Mind your watch"—I did not flee the prisoner pass the watch to any one—I saw the prosecutor struggling with the prisoner—I cannot tell what became of the watch.

WILLIAM BURR (City-policeman, 504). I was on duty in Gracechurch-street on the night in question—the prosecutor came to me, and said the prisoner had stolen his watch—I took the prisoner into custody—he said he had not got the watch, and had never taken it—the watch has not been found.

The prisoner denied taking the watch, stated that he had worked for Mr. Nash,

Leigh-street, Burton-crescent, about eight years; that Mr. Nash had hem waiting two days to give him a good character.


24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-981
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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981. GEORGE HAYES (24) , Stealing 1 purse, 1 pawn-ticket, and 11 in money, the property of Mary Ann Viall, from her person.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

MARY ANN VIALL , I am a widow, and live at White Post-lane, Hackney-wick—about half-past 7 on 18th October, I was at the North London Railway station in Fenchnrch-street—I was about to go up to the ticket-office, when somebody came up to my side, and I felt the person, whoever he was, trembling, distinctly—I looked down, and saw the prisoner standing by my side, and I saw his hand through a hole in his pocket, and saw my purse in his hand—I was so frightened for the moment I could not speak—the prisoner ran away, and some gentlemen pursued him—I afterwards went up to him—I am sure he is the person—I saw him some moments before he touched me—there was no one else near me but the prisoner when I felt the trembling—the purse contained two half-sovereigns, a duplicate, and a ring—I have not seen it since.

JURY. Q. Had you purchased your ticket at the time? A. No—I had taken fourpence out ready, and returned the purse to my pocket, which is an outside pocket.

JOHN WHITE . I am a porter—on the day in question, I was in Crutched-friars, and heard a cry of H "Stop thief!" and saw the prisoner running down the steps of the railway station—he knocked mo over—I got up, pursued him, and caught him again—he said, "I have done nothing"—I said, "Come hack and see what you have done; they were crying after you"—I met the officer and the last witness, and she charged him with stealing her purse—he mid it was quite a mistake.

JAMES ELL WOOD (City policeman, 519). I was on duty at the Railway-station, and heard a cry of "Stop thief!"—I followed, and found the prisoner in the custody of last witness—the prosecutrix came up, followed us to the station, and charged the prisoner with picking her pocket—she stated what was in the purse, and then he begged her not to press the charge, he would make up what she had lost—I found on him 1s. 1 1/2d. and a knife—he was asked his address, and he said he had no fixed residence.

GUILTY .—He was further charged with having been before convicted of felony at Clerkenwell, in April 1861, in the name of John Andrews; sentence, Two Years; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY. * Ten Years' Penal Servitude.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-982
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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982. MARY DARY (27) , Stealing 1 purse, and 1 order for the payment 5l 17s., and 5l. in money, the property of Frederick James Hawten, from his person.

MR. COLLINS conducted the Prosecution, and MR. F. H. LEWIS the Defence

FREDERICK JAMES HAWTEN . I live at 2, Gloucester-street, Clerkenwell, and am a stationer—on the evening of 18th October, about half-past 8, the prisoner overtook me in Arthur-street, London-bridge, and implored me to assist her, stating that she was out of work, I endeavoured to shake her off—I went into the Ticket Porter public-house, and I gave her a glass of stout, and had two glasses myself-at that time I had my purse in my pocket—it contained either 4l. 10s. or 5l. in gold, 15s. in silver, a cheque for & 17s., Borne few smaller coins, and some receipt-stamps—I came out of that public-house, and the prisoner wished me good-night—I went towards Laurence Pountney-hill—I had not got more than fifty yards before I heard

a rustling behind me, and discovered the prisoner by my side—she pressed her arms round me—I told her a little of that would go a long way, and shook her off—at the same time, I felt her hand in my left-hand trousers pocket—I seized her left wrist immediately—a man came up and looked us both in the face—he came very close to us—I said, "This woman has robbed me, will you fetch a policeman?"—he said nothing, and walked away—a policeman afterwards came up, and I gave the prisoner into custody.


24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-983
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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983. ELIZA STICKS (20) , Unlawfully assaulting Margaret Dunn, and occasioning her actual bodily harm.

MR. KYDD conducted the Prosecution, and MR. DALEY the Defence. MARGARET DUNK. I live at 1, Elder-place, Elder-walk, Lower-road, Islington—I have known the prisoner by sight for some time—on the night of 18th September, about 11 o'clock, I was standing at my mother's door—the prisoner came up to me and struck me over the eye—I can't tell you what it was with—I was insensible—my brother and mother took me indoors—I am sure the prisoner is the woman who struck me.

Cross-examined. Q. Where does she live? A. No 28, Popham-street, the next turning to where I live—I was talking to a Mrs. Cunningham at the time—she is not here to-day on my part—I did not ask her to come—I don't know a person named Conelly—I never said she or anybody else struck me, except the prisoner—my brother was the chief witness, and he is dead—my mother was not present when the assault was committed—I heard the prisoner was at a christening that day—my mother helped to take this woman's hands out of my hair when we were on the ground—there were four women on top of me—I don't know who the other three were—I was insensible after I was struck—I only know what else occurred from what they told me—the prisoner is always insulting me wherever I go, and has torn my bonnet off and my ear-rings out of my ears.

NORAH DUNN . I live at 1, Elder-place, Elder-walk—on Sunday night, September 18th, I went up to my house and saw my daughter, the last witness, lying under this woman—I pulled her off and sent for my son, who is now dead and buried—her eye was torn, and all the flesh up on one side—I and my son took her to the station-house, and she had two doctors—this happened about 12—the prisoner had my girl's hair in her hand, and she gave me a blow in the face—I am quite sure it was the prisoner—I saw her quite plain.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you been a witness in another case in another Court? A. Yes, for my son—I saw a man knock him down, and he lived about three weeks after—he knocked him down before my feet three times—I know Mrs. Cunningham—I did not see her that night—I don't know who was there—I don't know the three other women—I know no one but the prisoner—I think there is one woman there who helped to knock her down, one of the witnesses—I don't know her name—the prisoner was in bed when she was taken—that was about two hours after the assault.

MR. KYDD. Q. How long have you known the prisoner? A. Not above twelve months—I have seen her passing up and down by my place.

GEORGE TAYLOR (Policeman, N 336). On 19th last month, at in the morning, I took the prisoner into custody.

Cross-examined. Q. You took her in bed? A. Yes—she got out of bed, and I took her to the station—it was from what Margaret Dunn told me—I saw her—she was bleeding from a wound over the eye—smothered in blood

over her face and eye—my instructions are to take prisoners immediately, if there are marks of violence—she said she had been in bed since 1 o'clock. MR. KYDD. Q. Did you observe whether the prosecutrix was sober? A. Yes, she was, and the mother also. Witnesses for the Defence, JANE CONELLY. I live at 8, Robin Hood-court, Shoe-lane—on Sunday, 18th September, I was with the prisoner—we went to a christening all together it Little Pearl-street, Shoreditch—me and her sister and a young man—we had some drink there—the prisoner was very drunk, and my sister took her home and put her to bed, at 28, Little Popham-street—I then went to look for her young man, and afterwards found him in Elder-walk, fighting with the prosecutrix's sweetheart, Bill Fieldy—her brother then came up, stripped himself to his trousers, and fought the prisoner's young man—I said to Margaret Dunn, "You ought to be ashamed of yourself for letting your brother fight like that"—she called me a frightful name and hit me, and I hit her in return, and she and I had a fight—after it was all over, we went back to the prisoner's house—that was about ten minutes to 12—she was then asleep in bed with her baby—I left her a little after 10, and got back about ten minutes to 12, and she was in bed all that time.

Cross-examined by MR. KYDD. Q. What time did you go to the christening? A. In the afternoon—we began drinking after 5—I had taken a little drop, but not so much as the prisoner—I know the time when I went to look for the prisoner's young man, because the houses house at 11.

JOHN GRIFFITHS . I live at 1, Roberts-yard, Elder-walk—on Sunday night, 18th September, a little after 11, I was returning home, and saw a young man named Say wood very much intoxicated—he is the prisoner's young man—I followed him—he met Margaret Dunn's young man, William Fieldy—they had some words, and they commenced fighting, and then they were parted by the bystanders, and they then shook hands—Margaret Dunn's brother then came up, stripped all but his trousers and boots, and commenced fighting with Say wood—the last witness said Dunn ought to be ashamed of herself for letting her brother fight a drunken man, and she hit her, and Jane Conelly hit her again—I looked at the men, and then I saw Conelly and the prosecutrix on the ground together, struggling together, and pulling each other's hair—they were all in liquor.

Cross-examined. Q. How many were there there? A. About thirty people altogether, I should think—I had not been at the christening—I was perfectly sober—I never saw the prisoner at all that night—I did not see her that day anywhere.

MARY ANN DICKENSON . I live at 16, Elder walk—on Sunday, 18th September, from 11 to half-past, I met Margaret Dunn in Frog-lane—she asked me if I bad seen her brother Fred—I said, "No," she then went away—I went home, and saw two young men shaking hands, making up a fight—at that time Margaret Dunn returned with her brother, with nothing on but his boots and trousers, and he fought one of the men—I saw Margaret Dunn fighting with the young woman who has been examined here—the prisoner was not there at all


24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-984
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

984. HENRY CRAYMER (27) , Stealing a warrant for the delivery of 10 cwt of sugar, the property of Benjamin Worthy Home and another.

MR. STAMMERS conducted the Prosecution, and MR. DALEY the Defence.

CHARLES ROGERS . I am yard foreman to Messrs. Chaplin and Home, carriers, of Haydon-square—a portion of their business consists in collecting

goods on certain orders sent to them—on Saturday, 17th September, I had this order (produced) in my possession—I last saw it about half past 9 in my drawer, in a room at the station—between 10 and 11 I went to the drawer—the lock had been forced, the papers were all disordered, and this order was missing—after that I went down to Brewer's Quay, saw Mr. Philips, and stopped the goods—about an hour afterwards, he and a man named Fisher came to me with the order—there is an endorsement on the back of it, "Miller's van. C & H."—we have employed Miller's van occasionally—if I gave an order out, it would be my duty to make such an endorsement on it—I did not endorse this—it is not my handwriting, or the writing of any person in Chaplin and Home's employment—I am not able to say whether I have seen the prisoner about our premises—his features are familiar to me, but I cannot remember the time and place that I have seen him.

Cross-examined. Q. Who is Mr. Philips? A. The principal delivery foreman of refined sugar at Brewer's Quay.

CHARLES GILBERT . I am fourteen years of age—my father lets vans on Saturday, 17th October, I was near our van, at the corner of Dock-street—the prisoner came up to Fisher, who is my father's carman—he was in charge of the van—the prisoner spoke to Fisher, and they went away with the van, walking by the side of it—about half an hour after that, the prisoner came to me, at the same place, and asked me if the old man had comeback—I said, "No," he said "I have missed him all in a minute"—he then went towards Cable street—I have seen the prisoner about—I knew him by sight.

Cross-examined. Q. I believe Mr. Gilbert lets a number of carts? A. No, he has one van and one cart—there were other carts about there—I did not hear what the prisoner said to Fisher—I understood he meant Fisher the carman, by "the old man."

MR. STAMMERS. Q. Is your brother Henry here? A. No—he is very bad, and not able to come.

WILLIAM FISHER . I live at 4, Betsy-street, Back-road, Whitechapel, and am a carman in the employ of Mr. Gilbert—on 17th September I was sitting in his van, and the prisoner came up, and asked me if I could do a job—I knew him by sight before—I said, "What job is it?" he said, "It won't take you long," I said, "Where is the order?" he said, "I have it"—I said I should wish to see my master before I went—I could not find him, and I went along with the prisoner—when we got to Tower-hill, he gave me this order to take to Brewer's Quay—he said I was to go up Aldgate, then to Whitechapel Church, if I did not see him—I went to Brewer's Quay, got the order signed at the office, and then put—it before another gentleman, who said, "This order is stopped"—I could get neither the order or the goods, and I went away without them—I went up Aldgate to Whitechapel Church, but did not see the prisoner—I then went down Back church-lane, to the place where he left me—he told me to go that way—a man got up into the van at one end of the lane, and got down at the other—the officer afterwards went with me, but I saw nothing more of the prisoner until about 2 o'clock on Sunday morning, when he was arrested.

Cross-examined. Q. Was any person near enough to hear what passed when the prisoner spoke to you about the job? A. No—he asked me first where my master was—the prisoner went with me to look for him—we went to one public-house—I knew the prisoner's face—I took him to be a carman's clerk or son—I don't know that he has a horse and cart—I asked the

man who got into the cart if he knew the prisoner, and he said, "No"—I don't know what became of that man—I have never seen him since.

SAMUEL JOHN PHILIPS . I am warehouse-keeper at Brewer's-quay, to Messrs. Hunt and Co.—on 17th September I had in my possession 10 owl of sugar, like that described in that, order—on the morning of that day, about 12 or 1 o'clock, the last witness brought that order to mo—I did not deliver the sugar, the order had been stopped by Chaplin and Home—I requested Fisher to wait a minute, mid instead of that he drove his van away—I overtook him in George-street, Tower-hill—he is hard of hearing, go probably he could not hear what I said—I stopped his van, and got him to go with me to Chaplin and Home's—I knew the prisoner as a carman before, but I did not know his name.

GEORGE WHITNEY (City-policeman, 497). On Saturday, 17th September, I was sent for to Messrs. Chaplin and Home's in Haydon-square—I found Fisher there—I told him who I was, and what I wished him to do, and I followed the van, which was empty, to Whitechapel Church, down Back-lane into Dock-lane—I saw nobody—I afterwards took Fisher into custody—he was taken to the Mansion House, and discharged—from a description I received from him and the boy Gilbert, the prisoner was apprehended—Fisher was confronted with him in my presence, and he said, "That is the man who gave me the order"—the prisoner made no reply whatever—I told him the charge, and asked him if he had anything to say in answer to it—he said, no, he did not wish to say anything.

The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate:—"I received it from the other man, not knowing it was stolen."

WILLIAM FISHER (re-examined). I saw no one with the prisoner when he came up to me—no one went to the docks with me—the prisoner told me to go in at the front gate—the other man who got up into the cart knew nothing about it; he knew nothing of the prisoner—the prisoner has never employed me before, or my master, that I am aware of.

COURT (to CHARLES GILBERT). Q. Did you see another man with the prisoner when he came up to the van? A. No—I did not take much notice.


24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-985
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

Related Material

985. HENRY CRAYMER was again indicted for Unlawfully attempting to obtain 10 cwt. of sugar by false pretences, upon which No evidence was offered.


The following prisoners PLEADED GUILTY:—

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-986
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

986. JOHN WELLINGTON (19) , to Stealing 62 watches, 300 pairs of earrings, 750 lockets, and other goods, the property of Philip Edward Brame, his master.— Fourteen Years' Penal Servitude. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-987
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

987. PHILIP REEVES (36) , to Feloniously marrying Fanny Haynes, his wife Susan being alive.— Confined Twelve Months , [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-988
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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988. JOHN YOUNG (15) , to Stealing a watch and chain, the property of John Young the elder.— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Judgment Respited.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-989
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

989. THOMAS FRENCH (48) , to Stealing a coat of Henry Livermore, after a former conviction in March, 1860.*— Ten Years' Penal Servitude. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] And

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-990
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

990. HANNAH WATSON (25) , to Stealing a shawl and two gowns of Annie Maria Gooding, after a former conviction in March, 1863.— Confined Eighteen Months. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

NEW COURT.—Friday, October 28th, 1864.

Before Mr. Recorder.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-991
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

Related Material

991. JOHN DE COSTA (42) , Unlawfully conspiring, with other persons unknown, to defraud Anne Meline, and others.

MR. TAYLOR conducted the Prosecution, and MR. F. H. LEWIS the Defence.

ANN MELINE . I am single, and carry on business in the general line, stationery, tobacco, and sweets, at 1, York-street, Manchester-square—on 7th June a man, about fifty years of age, came in; he was about five feet nine inches high, dressed in a brown coat, a black satin waistcoat, and dark trousers—he purchased half an ounce of tobacco, and left; he called a second time, and brought this order, which he left with me—(Read: "Beet drawing pencils, one dozen each, F, H B, B, H B, and B B B, at 4s. per dozen; two dozen crayons at 6s. per dozen; and two dozen ever-pointed leads at 6s. per gross)—another man came in afterwards, and about a quarter of an hour afterwards the prisoner called and asked for a bottle of ginger-beer—he asked me if I wanted anything in his way—I asked him what he had; he said, "Black lead pencils; I said, "A man has been in and given me an order for some"—I showed him the order, he made no remark, but opened his bag, and laid the pencils on the counter—there was no talk about the price, but he made out the bill, and I paid him 3l. 12s., he signed it "J. Jones"—I asked him if he was the brother of the man Jones who came in the second time; he said "Yes"—(Read: "Six at 8s. 2l. 8s.; three at 12s. 12s.; three at 4s. 12s.; total 3l. 12s.; paid, J. Jones")—I got six lots of half a gross each—I cannot say the number which are here (produced), but I got this quantity—here are six dozen, I should think—(The pencils being counted there were 163, and three boxes of leads)—I saw at the time that they corresponded with the number in the invoice—I had three dozen crayons, one of them is here; I have left the others at home—I do not know what this "three at 12s." and only 12s. carried out means—I have had the shop since 12th May.

ANN HERBERT . I live at 3, James-street, Buckingham-gate—on 19th August I kept a shop at 35, York-street, Westminster; I opened it on the 15th—on the 19th a man over fifty years of age called, dressed as a working man, dressed in a light frock coat like a working man, not like the other travellers, or the Jews—he asked me for a penny cedar pencil, which I gave him—a tallish man came in next, a Jew traveller, who said, "Will you put a show-bill in the window?" I said, "Yes;" and he said he would send one—I bought three dozen carpenter's pencils of him for 4s.—and after him the first man called again, and then he called a third time, and left this order (produced)—in about ten minutes the prisoner called with another man, who said, "Is this where I was to leave a show-bill?" I said, "Yes, it is;" and showed him this order—(Read: "One dozen drawing pencils, H B; one ditto B B; one ditto H; one ditto F; one ditto B; one ditto, B B B, at 4s. a dozen; two dozen coloured crayons, at 6s. a dozen; and two boxes of ever-pointed leads at 6s. a gross"—I asked him is he could serve me with that order; he said "Yes," and produced them from a bag which the prisoner carried—he made out this bill, and signed it: "One and a-half gross, 2l. 8s.; three dozen, 12s."—I have brought the pencils here—I do not know whether there was a gross and a-half, or whether any have been taken out—the man who sold me the carpenter's pencils gave me this bill (produced)—this "Middleton" at the top is in his writing—I said to the man who came with the prisoner, "What am I to do if I cannot sell the goods?

he said, "Here is my card; I will exchange them for anything in. my shop if you cannot sell them"—(Read: "J. Middleton and Co. stationers and black lead pencil manufacturers, 19, Wood-street")—the first traveler asked me if I knew Wood-street, Cheapside; I said, "Yes"—he said, "Do you know No. 191?" I said, "No, but I know Wood-street very well, for I have lived there"—the man never came for the order, and on the Monday morning I went to Wood-street; there is no No. 19, from 13 to 23 are all thrown into warehouses—there is no Middleton and Co. in the street—the pencils were produced to Mr. Hodges at the police-court—I afterwards left my shop, and took a private room at Castle-street, Buckingham-gate, and I exactly five weeks from that day I was sitting at my window, and saw two I men come down Castle-lane, the prisoner and the man who served me with the pencils—I went out; they did not see me—I did not go very fast—they came back to George-street, then to Little James-street—they then saw me, and ran in different directions—the other man got away—I called oat to somebody to stop the prisoner, and he ran into a little house at the back of George-street—I caught him; a woman turned as both out; and held him till a policeman came—he had got the bag with a lot of pencils just as he had at my shop—I paid 4l. 8s. in all, but the purchase of the prisoner was 4l. 4s.

HENRY SMITH . I keep a toy and general shop, and sell stationery, at 12 Vere-street, Clare-market—in the beginning of September a tall came man, dressed in black, with a kind of black shooting-jacket, and a ring on his finger—I could not supply him with what he wanted—shortly afterwards a short young man, about twenty-two or twenty-three, came in, and bought three dozen flat carpenter's pencils, and three dozen round ones—after that the till man came again and bought half a dozen of each of the pencils, and a quire of note paper—he produced the stump of a pencil with the name of Middleton on it—he came back afterwards, and gave me an order written in crayon, which I have lost—I laid it on the counter; I did not take particular notice of it—I have searched the counter, and under the counter for it, and the waste paper—it was for a dozen of each letter drawing pencils, two dozen crayons, and three boxes of ever-pointed leads—in about twenty minutes or half an hour the prisoner came in—I showed him the order, and he said that he met one of his clerks in the square, who told him that I had bought some pencils of him, and he came in to give me his show-card to put in the window, and asked if I wanted any more pencils—the show-card had the name of "Chambers" on it—I said, "No, I do want some pencils, but not Chambers's, they must be Middleton's"—he said, "Oh, Chambers's and Middleton's are both the same firm; I have got them here, told can supply you"—I said, "Well, if you can supply me I may as well have them of you as go to the City for them;" he opened his parcel, and took out a gross of each of the letters—I have a sample of each here, the name of Middleton is on them, and also on the crayons and leads—the bill was 4l. 3s. and 6s. I had paid before—I paid him 4l. 7s. as discount was taken off—the person never came back for the order.

Cross-examined. Q. I presume in asking for Middleton's pencils you were desirous of carrying out the order which you had received? A. Yes.

ALEXANDER SUTHERLAND (Policeman, B 192). On 23d September I was called by Mrs. Herbert, and took the prisoner in Little George-street—I found on him a quantity of Middleton and Co. 's pencils, and show-bills (produced)

JOHN HODGES . I am a black lead ever-pointed pencil maker, and live at

Vauxhall—I have been in the trade thirty years—I have examiued these pencils, they are not drawing pencils, they are all of one degree, aud are made of a composition, a mixture of black lend and something else—the ever-pointed leads are made of wax and black lead—there is no such firm in the trade as Middleton and Co., either in Wood-street, Cheapside, or anywhere else—there was a firm, named Middleton, in the Strand, thirty years ago, but not now—these are common pencils, and are worth 5s. 6d. a gross, allowing the salesman to get a fair profit—good drawing pencils are worth 48s. a gross.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you a maker of lead pencils? A. Yes—if any person came to me and asked me to put the name of Middleton on pencils should do so if they were tradesmen, and their name was Middleton—the fact of Middleton and Co. being on the pencils would be no proof that Middleton and Co. made them—there is lead enough in these ever-pointed leads to make a mark; I have not tried them (trying one); I am not at all surprised to find that they will write—a pencil is not a drawing-pencil because you can draw with it—H B is of a different hardness to B B—the letters represent the different degree—I have not analysed the leads, but I have proved that they are made of wax composition—these leads are calculated to spoil a pencil-case, by being in the pocket they give and clog up the case.

COURT. Q. Is a drawing pencil made of composition or black lead? A. Black lead—I never heard of the firm of Chambers and Co. of 13, John-street, Church-lane, Whitechapel.

The prisoner received a good character.

GUILTY.— Judgment respited.

THIRD COURT.—Friday, October 28th 1864.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-992
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

992. CHARLES WHITE (49) , Embezzling and stealing 1l. of Thomas Silk, and others, his masters.

MR. W. HARDING conducted the Prosecution, and MR. DALEY the Defence.

ROBERT WILLIAM MARSHALL . I am a clerk in the Sheriffs' office, in the City—in the course of my duties I am aware of moneys paid out in respect of judgments given in that Court—on 31st July last I paid a person, giving the name of Charles White, 1l. on behalf of a Mr. Templar, and this certificate was returned in at another window in the office—that satisfied me that it was paid out—the receipt and ledger are signed "Charles White"—I cannot identify the person.

Cross-examined. Q. I suppose you have no knowledge, except that the name of Charles White is written in that book? A. That is all—I don't know the handwriting, or the person.

HENRY WINKWORTH . I live at 53, Herbert-street, Hoxton, and am secretary to the Friends of Labour Loan Society, held at the Crown and Anchor public-house, Swan-street, Minories—it is a society certified by Mr. Tidd Pratt—I have a copy of the rules certified by him—the prisoner was secretary of the Society in March last year, and continued. so up to about the 10th or 12th of November—he was then dismissed—I joined the society in April—I was not there in March—the secretary has in his possession a loan-book, in which he enters all sums received from debtors to the society—it is the duty of the secretary to keep that book—I have had access to the prisoner's loan-book, which was used by him when he

was secretary—there is no entry in that book of 1l. having been received by him from the Sheriff's Court on 31st July last, on behalf of Mr. Templar—the book that the. prisoner kept is here—it was his duty to have paid that amount over to the treasurer at the next meeting of the society—it was only on the first of this month that we discovered the defalcation—I communicated with the Society on the following Tuesday—they directed me to make inquiries, and the result was that the prisoner was given into custody upon this charge.

Cross-examined. Q. You know as a fact that he was given in custody, and brought off to prison at 9 o'clock at night? A. Yes—no communication was made to him before that was done—he has been out of the Society from list November—a communication was made to him in April, that there was a defalcation of 5s.—I don't think he was required to pay that—I will swear he was not asked for 5s.—he paid the sum of 5s. last Tuesday week—he sent it—he was applied to for it—it was the very same night he was taken—he left it at the bar of the public-house, and when I came from taking him into custody, I found it at the bar—I have been secretary since last November—he was secretary just previous to me—we are speaking of July, 1863—I had a loan of 5l. from the Society at the end of September—that is not contrary to Rule 14—it was not too soon for me to have it—I was not refused that 5l.—the prisoner did not oppose my having it, that I am aware of—I was auditor at the time—I audited his books—we could not find this defalcation out then—we did not find this 1l. out till last Saturday week—we met every Tuesday, and the members paid their money to the secretary—the prisoner always took the books to his own house—I never had possession of them until after this difficulty occurred—the prisoner kept the books, and would not return them; we used to drink a little—not more than a pint of beer each, and pipes—the officers were never drinking or smoking—there was some squabbling going on about this time—the prisoner did not drink during business hours; somebody might pass the officers a glass—the prisoner never complained of the confusion or squabbling—I know that one night during that quarter his friends attempted to turn me out of the Society, and they closed the books, and would not have any more business; they wanted it passed by a resolution—the prisoner was turned out for his inattention to his duties by a resolution at a general meeting—he might have received from 35l. to 40l. a quarter while he was secretary—there were about 140 members at 3d. per quarter each—we have somewhere about ninety loans outstanding—we have about 400l. capital—the Society has been in existence five years—the secretary would have to enter every member's payment opposite a number, and cast it up at the end of the quarter—I don't know that by law you can put three charges of embezzlement in one indictment; I swear that I have no other indictment but this—we made no charge about the others, because they were condoned by his friends—I gave the prisoner into custody—the present trustees authorized me to do so—I asked the advice of the Chief Clerk at the Mansion House, and he said, "You don't want a summons; give the man into custody the moment you see him, for embezzlement"—I heard something about his being defended by a subscription amongst his neighbours—I have seen one of the members of the Society here to give him a character, Mr. Samuel Pearce, one of the prisoner's friends; he is a defaulter to the Society, like Mr. White; they have been the pulling down of the Society—there are two or three of the defaulters coming up; there is no doubt about that. MR. HARDING. Q. Have you had any quarrel with the prisoner? A. Neve;

I have no ill feeling towards him—I know his hand writing—this signature in the Sheriffs' office-book, on 31st July, is the signature of the prisoner—I am prepared to swear that it is.

JOHN WATSON . I live at Stepney-green, and am a warehouseman—I am a member of the Friends of Labour Loan Society—I was cashier and treasurer for two years, up to last Christmas—I was so in July, 1863—the prisoner was then secretary—it was his duty, having received money, to hand it over to me as treasurer—he did not in July, 1863, pay me 1l. as received by him from the Sheriffs' court, on behalf of Mr. Templar—had he so paid it, I should have entered it in the cash-book—there is no entry in the cash-book of that account—we balance the money every night—there have been mistakes occasionally—I have seen the prisoner's signature.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you always there? A. No; occasionally I could not attend—this letter (produced) is in my writing—I think, as near as I can recollect of this circumstance, a Mr. Daniels came in after the proper hours, and I put his book and his 5s. in my cash-box, to be entered in the secretary's book, and in mine, to the next week's money—the prisoner never made entries in my book—he had access to it—we always sat alongside one another—he did not keep his own books himself—they are kept in a box in the Society's room—they were kept locked up, I believe—he could get at them; and he has had them when the audit accounts were made out—the treasurer and secretary had a key of the box where the books were kept—I remember his taking the books home—there was a good deal of squabbling at the meetings—Mr. White complained of that, and said he would resign, several times—he was neither dismissed, nor did he resign—he would not attend the meetings, and Mr. Winkworth was appointed in his stead.

MR. HARDING. Q. Did you receive this 1l. in any way from the prisoner? A. No.

HENRY WINKWORTH (re-examined). If the prisoner had paid the money to the cashier, it would have appeared in his writing in this book (produced), and in that book in Mr. John Watson's writing.

MR. DALEY. Q. Has he accounted for part of the loan received from the County Court? A. Yes; I find that here.


24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-993
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

993. JOHN McCLENNAN (54) , Stealing 1 coat of Arthur Anderson.

MR. HORRY conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS HENRY GREEN . I am clerk to Mr. Arthur Anderson, 2, Royal Exchange-avenue—on 3d or 4th October, I saw a coat in my employer's office—he missed it in the course of the day—it was in the first-floor room—I don't know the prisoner; I had never seen him about the place.

ALFRED GEORGE GUSH . I am a pawnbroker, at 48, Stanhope-street, Strand—this coat (produced) was pledged on 4th October for 12s., in the name of Lenny, by the prisoner—I knew him before; he took the coat off his back.

JOHN BODMIN (City-policeman, 422). On Saturday afternoon, 8th October, about half-past 1, I took the prisoner into custody—I found this duplicate for a coat, pledged on 4th October at Mr. Gush's, upon him.

ALFRED GEORGE GUSH (re-examined). That is the duplicate I gave to the prisoner—the numbers correspond.

Prisoner's Defence. This is, no doubt, a suspicious case; but I think you will admit that I can pawn a coat, which I do not deny, without stealing it

I bought the coat of a man in the street for 5s., and pawned it for 12s., and in a false name, because I did not like to give my right name.

GUILTY .—He was further charged with having been before convicted of felony at Clerkenwell on 18th May, 1863, and sentenced to Twelve Month; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY.— Confined Eighteen Months ,

There was another indictment against the prisoner.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-994
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

994. WILLIAM COLE (27) , Breaking and entering the warehouse of James Franks and another, and stealing 900 lbs. of tea, their goods.

MR. WOOD conducted the Prosecution, and MR. LILLEY the Defence.

GEORGE TAYLOR . I am clerk to James Franks, and another, wholesale tea-dealers, 40, Queen-street, Cheapside—on Saturday, 10th September, I left the premises at quarter-past 9—I locked up the side-door—the assistants had previously fastened the door at the corner, between Queen-street and Maiden-lane—I saw that it was properly secured—Maiden-lane runs on both sides of the warehouse—I fastened up the shop-door, and then went out at the private door in Queen-street, shut it, and turned the key in the padlock, which keeps the bar up—it was double-locked and padlocked—the tea was on the third floor—it was there on the Saturday when I left, stowed away in chests, one upon another, and in caddies—the door of the third-floor room was locked—on the Monday, when I arrived, I found it broken open—I found five bags of tea on the office-floor—900 lbs. bad been removed from the top room; about 600 lbs. were taken away—we hang the keys of the inside doors on the ground floor—I have seen the outside padlock since.

JOHN SCRAGGS (City-policeman, 406). On Monday morning, 12th September, I was on my beat in Queen-street, Cheapside—about fifteen minutes to 7 I passed Mr. Franks's warehouse; the doors were then closed—when I got to the bottom of the street, I saw a man standing at the corner of Thames-street and Queen-street—he appeared to be watching my movements—that man was not the prisoner—I went part of the way round my beat, and returned—the man was then gone—I went up College-hill, and looked down Maiden-lane, which runs from the top down to Garlic-hill, past Mr. Franks's warehouse—I then saw the warehouse-door open, and a horse and cart going down the lane, from the warehouse towards Garlic-hill—there was a man leading the horse, and three others walking by the side of it—I turned round again, and went down down College-hill, and along Thames-street to meet them—when I got to Garlic-hill I found the horse and cart standing by the door of the church there—I took the cart round to Messrs. Franks's warehouse-door, and sent for the sergeant—there were six bags of tea in the cart—I could see it was loaded with bags at the time I saw it leaving Franks's warehouse—there was not an interval of more than a minute before I saw them again—I saw the witness Pearson at the time I was going round towards Garlic-hill, coming down Maiden-lane—I could see him coming along towards me—he met me close to Mr. Franks's ware-house-door, when I brought the cart back, and I asked him to stop, as there were thieves, and he did so—I found five other bags, filled with tea, on the ground floor—I took the tea to the station, and sent the cart to the greenyard—there was no name on the cart—it was not a peculiar cart—the horse was a chestnut; it had its knees broken, and was lame of the fore-leg.

Cross-examined. Q. The men whom you saw were all dressed in black, were they not? A. In dark clothes—I do not identify the prisoner as one of those four men—I was about a hundred yards from them—I don't know

that several persons came to identify the prisoner when he was at Bow-lane-station—I went and saw him myself—I know Baker, the detective—I don't know that he has charge of this case, and the discovery of the offenders—I have had no information about it myself from Banker, or any one else; that I state positively—I have been in stables looking after horses—chestnut is not a very uncommon colour—I don't know when the prisoner was taken into custody—I believe it was about a fortnight after the robbery.

JAMES FRANKS (City-police-sergeant, 21). I was called by the last witness, on Monday morning, September 12th, to Mr. Franks's warehouse about 7 o'clock—the first I saw was a horse and cart standing outside the door, with six bags of tea in it—I then went into the warehouse, and found five bags of tea standing inside the door, ready for removal—I also found five jemmies, a hammer, and a coat, lying on the bags—I examined the whole of the house, and found some five or six doors broken open; violence had been used—the wood-work was broken away—the door I entered by, the ware-house-door, was opened from the inside—there were no locks on that—there were no marks of violence on it—the padlock at the side-door had been tampered with.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know Baker, the detective? A. I do—I have not received any information from him, or any one else, with regard to the parties who committed this robbery—I have heard they came from Shore-ditch—I have not seen a photograph of the persons suspected—Scraggs, the constable, and the witness Pearson, came to look at the prisoner at Bow-lane; no one else, to my knowledge—I am on duty from 2 on one day until 2 the following.

MR. WOOD. Q. Did Pearson identify him at once? A. He did.

RICHARD PEARSON . I am a gas-fitter, at 4, Sugarloaf-court, Garlic-hill—that runs parallel with Maiden-lane—I am now working at the Miller of Mansfield—on Monday morning, 12th September, about twenty minutes or a quarter to 7, I came out of Sugar-loaf-court, into Garlic-hill; I was going down Maiden-lane, and I met the prisoner coming up with a horse and cart, with five bags of tea on it—he was coming from Mr. Franks front-door—I then saw three men come out at that door, and run down a little court at the back close by—I only just saw the policeman pass round the corner then—directly the prisoner turned the corner, I suppose he went away from the cart—I did not see him then—the court where I saw the men run down if about twenty yards from the back of the warehouse; more towards Garlic-hill—I know it was Cole leading the horse and cart, because I have recognised him since—I was sufficiently near to see him; so near that I am able to swear to him—I have no doubt whatever that he is the man I saw—I afterwards saw the cart; there was no name on it.

Cross-examined, Q. Are you a gasfitter on your own account? A. Yes, and have been so about ten years—I was before the Magistrate on the first examination—I was never in Manchester—I was not in the country after the examination—I saw the prisoner again about a fortnight afterwards—I believe the man who was leading the cart had a little whiskers on—I go to work at 7 in the morning—the Miller of Mansfield is at the back of Guy's Hospital—I walk there; it is about 400 or 500 yards down King-street, on the left-hand side—it was a very narrow turning where I met the man with the cart—I was just the width of the cart from him—only one cart can get up there at once—I was a few yards off when I first saw the cart—I fancy the prisoner had another coat on.

MR. WOOD. Q. Did you see him distinctly? A. Yes.

J. AMES MURRILL (City-policeman, 304). On Sunday night, 11th September, about a quarter-past 10, I was on duty in Tudor-street, which leads from the Temple to Blackfriars-bridge—I noticed a horse and cart there—afterwards on Tuesday morning 13th, I saw that same horse and cart in the green yard—a man named Hayes, who was apprehended with the prisoner, was in charge of the cart on the Sunday—I examined the horse and curt then—I did not see any name on the cart—the horse was a chestnut.

Cross-examined. Q. Was Hayes alone that evening? A. Yes; at that time—Tudor-street is about half a mile from Queen-street—I examined the horse with my lamp—I noticed that one of its legs dropped over—I have seen a cab-horse like that before—I examined its head, and found it had one eye—that is not an unusual thing to see in London, MR. WOOD. Q. Do you swear it was the same horse and cart? A. Yea MR. LILLEY. Q. What sort of a cart was it? A. An old dirty green cart—I never noticed one like it before—there were wings to it projecting out on each side—I will not say positively there was no name on it—I looked, but could not see one—I never heard of a reward being offered until after the prisoner had been before the Magistrate.

WILLIAM STEWART . I am a cab-driver at 8, Brandon-street, Lock's-fields—I have known a man named Hayes eight or nine months, and the prisoner about the same time, by sight—I used to work for John Mallet, Swan-street, Dover-road—I have seen Cole with Hayes on several occasions—on one occasion I saw them in a cart in Gracechurch-street—I can't say I have seen the cart since—it was a chestnut mare—it was about the latter end of August or the beginning of September.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you gone by any other name than Stewart? A. Yes; I have answered to the name of "Bob Cox"—I lived in another neighbourhood then—no one fetched me up to give evidence—I know a policeman named Dennis Clark one of the M's—he has had no hand in bringing me forward on this occasion—I never heard of any reward—no one has offered me 5l. or any such sum if I would give evidence—I have never said that I had been led into it—I said I should not have come and given evidence had I not been served with a summons—I did not say that they had got over me—I was in Mr. Hallett's employ a month—he is a cab proprietor, and lets out vehicles on hire—I saw Hayes and the prisoner in a cart belonging to him at different times—it was a chestnut horse and a bay mare, which I knew well from driving them in a cab—I had left Mr. Hallett's then, but I knew the horses—Bob Cox was a name I went by; I never went by the name of Kingston—it was an ordinary spring cart that I saw the prisoner and Hayes in, in Gracechurch-street—there are hundreds more like it in London—it had a wing on it—I was driving a cab at the time I saw it and I pulled up for them to pass by—there were three persons in the cart at that time.

ROBERT PETHER (Policeman, M 98). I have known the prisoner for the last two or three years, and have known Hayes, who was in custody with him, six or seven years—I have seen them together frequently—on Friday, 30th September, I went to the City greenyard, and saw a horse and cart there—I am not certain whether it was a horse or a mare; it was a chestnut—I had seen that horse and cart in the possession of Cole and two other men, not in custody, about a week before the robbery was committed—one of the men was Hayes, and the other a person named Dickson—the last time I saw the horse and cart was in Kent-street, Borough, about the middle

of the day—I can clearly identify it as the same horse and cart as I saw at the greenyard.

Cross-examined. Q. Is it not a common cart? A. Yes; a common cart such as many persons keep for hire and let—I have seen Cole in a cart drawn by a horse six or eight times at the least—they were driving by me when I saw it on this last occasion—I have seen them with two different horses and three different carts—I have heard there is a reward offered, a small one—we expect a little perhaps.

MR. WOOD. Q. When did you take the prisoner in custody? A. The following evening, Saturday, 1st October, about 7—I told him what he was charged with—he said, "I hope you are not going to put a job up for me"—I said, "No, I hope not"

MR. LILLEY. Q. Had you not had some little altercation with him and his wife some few days before? A. Some two or three days before the wife was taken to the station.

MR. WOOD. Q. You knew him none the worse for that? A. No; I know nothing against the man.

WILLIAM HENCHLIFFE (Policeman, M 85). I know the prisoner well—on 12th October, I believe, I saw a horse and cart in the green yard—I had previously seen Cole and Hayes with that horde and cart many times—I saw them with it a few days before 12th September—I saw it about seven or eight weeks previous to my seeing it at the green yard with Cole and Hayes in it—Cole was driving at the time.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know Dennis Clark of your division? A. Yes—I did not know there was a reward offered—I have not heard so—I swear that I have never heard so from any person whatever—I have not seen a paper up at my station to that effect—I am there every day—I have not been inside the Bow-lane station—I spoke to the men when I saw them seven or eight weeks ago; I swear that—they were coming out of Clarendon-street into Kent-street very fast, and I said, "You ought to be more careful how you come out," that was all—I had seen the horse twenty times before—they have had a fresh horse, a darker one, and it has not been in the same cart—I have seen it standing a little below the public-house by itself; I did not notice anyone taking care of it—I would not say how many times I have seen the cart; I only speak particularly to one morning—I don't know Baker the detective.

MR. WOOD. Q. On the several occasion of which you have spoken who was driving? A. Cole—I should say I have seen him seven or eight times driving the horse with Hayes.

Witnesses for the Defence.

JOHN KENRICK . I live at 33, Lansdowne-place, St. George's New Town, and am a brush dealer—I have known the prisoner for years—on Sunday evening, 11th September, I was with him in the Golden Fleece—about half-past 11, I saw him rolling about drunk in the road—there were several others in company with us—I know a man named Holland; he was there—I picked Cole up, knowing him well, and asked Henry Holland if he would I head him up to my place—we took him there, and my wife made him a temporary bed in the corner of the room, and he did not get up till a quarter to 9 on the 12th—Overshott is the name of the landlord of the Golden Fleece; he is here—I went there at about a quarter to 9 on the Monday morning—it is about a hundred yards from where I live.

Cross-examined by MR. WOOD. Q. Will you swear that wherever the prisoner was on that morning of 12th September, you were with him? A.

No; I was with him the first part of the rooming, and then I had to go to my work—I was with him till something like 11—I was in the same room with him from 6 to 7 that morning—I know Dennis Clark, a constable—I was not looked up about seven years ago for three weeks for attempting to pick pockets, to my recollection—I have got a bad memory—I can't recollect—that is not the question I am come to answer.

COURT. Q. Have you been convicted of picking pockets? A. I might have been; I can't remember it—I will swear that I can't remember it.

SARAH KENRICK . I am the wife of the last witness—I have known Cole a great many years—on 11th September, about half-past 11 at night my husband and Mr. Holland brought him up stairs very much intoxicated—he slept on some of my petticoats and some of the bed clothes—he remained there till between 8 and 9 the next morning—when I awoke he was there—he had recovered from his drunkenness then—he could not have gone out of the room, the door was locked.

Cross-examined, Q. How many beds had you in this room? A. One, me and my husband slept there—Holland went away—my husband was very intimate with the prisoner—they are often in public-houses together.

MR. LILLEY. Q. Did you ever see any whiskers on Cole's face? A. No, never.

COURT. Q. Where does he live? A. Down Bermondsey way—I never went to his house—I know by speaking to his wife that he lives in Bermondsey—I did not see him again after the Monday, till he was in custody, not to my recollection—I saw him again the same day two or three times, in St. George's New-town—I first heard of the robbery about three weeks ago—it was on a Saturday night that I heard he was taken on suspicion of the tea robbery—I had not heard of the robbery before that.

HENRY HOLLAND . I am a tobacco-pipe maker, and live in Kent-street, St. George's New-town—I have known Cole for years, by sight—one night, during September, I took him home drunk—it was on the 11th—I don't know what month; I am no scholar and I forget—it was 11th February or 11th December—I should think it is about a month ago—this month is February, isn't it?—I am no scholar—it was Sunday—I took him up to John Kenrick's place—I met with him outside the Golden Fleece—I saw him next morning, and had a drop of ale with him at the Golden Fleece, about half-past 9—I did not see him after that, till he was in custody.

THOMAS OVERSHOTT . I am the landlord of the Golden Fleece—it is a licensed house—I know the prisoner, he uses my house sometimes—he was there on Sunday evening, 11th September—I shut up at 11 o'clock—he was very tipsy that night, and I refused to serve him at 10 o'clock—the last saw of him was at 11 o'clock, when he went out of the door with the rest—I believe Kenrick was there that evening—about 9 the next morning, Kenrick and Cole came into my house both together—Cole was very drunk the night before.

Cross-examined. Q. How do you know that? A. Because he staggered about.

JAMES DANIEL ROGERS . I am a hairdresser, and live at 61, Bermondsey New-road—I have known the prisoner between four and five years—he lives, I believe, in Alley-street, Bermondsey New-road—it is from a quarter to half a mile from St. George's New-town to the Golden Fleece—I have shaved Cole for turned four years—I never found any whiskers on his cheeks, he could not grow any—he had a few straggling hairs on his face, no whiskers—he has never had any whiskers.

Cross-examined. Q. What part of him did you shave? A. The upper lip and just round the chin—I have not been very intimate with him—I have shaved him twice a week during the last four years I should say—sometimes he has been away for a week or two—I am a hairdresser and barber too—I don't sell false moustaches or whiskers—I have never been locked up—only twice—I have been bailed out—I have not been locked up for the last twelve months—I have been summoned for my missus—she wanted to leave me, and I said she might go if she liked—I have only been locked up twice.

MR. LILLEY. Q. What was it for? A. Only for being drunk; I was discharged when I was sober—I have not been locked up since last February twelvemonth—I have been a married man since then, and have not been looked up.

COURT. Q. When did you lost shave the prisoner? A. Three weeks lost Saturday, between 7 and half-past, in the evening, and I think on the Tuesday before that—I should say I have shaved him for the last two months twice a week, up to last Saturday three weeks—I was examined before the Magistrate.

GUILTY .—He was further charged with leaving been before convicted of felony on 9th May, 1857, at Southwark, to which he

PLEADED GUILTY.— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.


Before Mr. Justice Willes.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-995
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

995. JOHN MORDAUNT (15) , Feloniously killing and slaying Henry Janson.

MR. KEMP conducted the Prosecution, and MR. SLEIGH the Defence.

WILLIAM GEORGE JANSON . I am the brother of the boy who was killed—on 7th September, I was in Epping Forest with three other boys, Charles Hoytesbale, Robert Holliday, and the deceased—we saw the prisoner and another boy about 5 o'clock, carrying guns on their shoulders—we asked them the way to the Rising Sun, and they directed us through the forest—I asked them if they had shot any birds or got any game, and they showed us a sparrow, which the prisoner threw up and shot—we stood and watched them fire for about ten minutes, and then went away—the prisoner and Meadows followed us—I had a black and white dog, and the prisoner said he would shoot it—we then ran away, but the prisoner followed us—my brother then said to him, "You are not allowed to shoot in the forest, the police would not allow it if they knew it; you do not know what danger you might do"—the prisoner said, "Yes, I am, I will shoot you," and he put the gun to his shoulder and discharged it—my brother fell down, his face was bleeding, and we carried him to the Rising Sun—he lived eighteen days afterwards in the London Hospital—I was with him when he died, and saw him when he was dead—I had not known the prisoner before.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you lads strangers to each other? A. Yes—we were not laughing and joking with each other before this terrible accident; we were merely watching them shooting—some of us did not propose that one party should become Federals and the other Confederates, nothing of the kind—when the prisoner said, "I will shoot you," the gun did not go off instantly, three seconds if should say elapsed before he discharged it—somebody then said, "You have shot him"—he did not then say, "Nonsense"—he said, "My gracious!" and ran away—about five

minutes elapsed before he returned—he helped me to carry the deceased out of the forest into the road, and we had the assistance of an old gentleman—I was examined before the Coroner's jury; they returned a verdict of accidental death.

CHARLES ROBERT HOLLIDAY . I am nearly fifteen years old, and live at 79, Sherborne-grove, Dalston—I was with Janson in Epping Forest, and saw the prisoner and his companions—we asked them the way to the Rising Sun—the prisoner fired off his rifle, and we subsequently ran away.

COURT. Q. Was the rifle to his shoulder when the boy was shot? A. Yes—I saw him with his hand like this, after he had been feeling in his bag—he said, "Here is a dose for some one"—the deceased said, "You have no right to shoot in the forest at all, if the police know it they will lock you up"—he said, "Ain't I, I will shoot you," and put the gun to his shoulder—I it remained there a very short time before he fired.

CHARLES HEYTESBALL . I am fourteen years old, and live in George-street, London-fields—I was with the other boys in Epping Forest—I remember Jnason being shot—just before he was shot he said to the prisoner, "You have no right to shoot in a place like this, the police would not allow it if they knew it"—the prisoner put the gun to his shoulder, fired it, and the boy fell.

JOHN PARK (Policeman, K 181). I took the prisoner and asked him who did it—he said, "I did it, the gun went off by accident"—I took the deceased to Dr. Collins at Wanstead, and then to the London Hospital.

Cross-examined. Q. Was the prisoner overwhelmed with grief, and did he render you every assistance he could? A. He rendered me every assistance he could.

JOHN DAWSON . I was house-surgeon at the London Hospital—the deceased was brought there suffering front a wound on the left side of his head, which might have been done by a gun-shot—he remained there eighteen days, and died from the effects of the wound—I extracted some of the shot—these are them (produced).


Before Mr. Recorder.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-996
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

996. CHARLES HENRY HAMMOND (39) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

ROSINA LITTLE . I am the wife of William Little, and keep a sweet shop, Green-lane, Chadwell—on Saturday evening, 15th October, the prisoner came into my shop about a quarter past 6 for a pennyworth of apples—he gave me a half-crown—I told him I could not change it, and laid it on the table—he took it up and asked me if I could change a shilling—he then gave me a shilling, and I gave him a threepenny bit and 8d. in coppers, change—directly he left the shop I thought the shilling was a bad one, and gave it to a constable with some information—I saw the prisoner in custody about ten minutes afterwards—there was another man outside the shop when I was serving the prisoner, but I did not see enough of him to swear to him—he got away.

HENRY SMITH . I keep the White Hart at Chadwell, about 100 yards from Mrs. Little's—on Saturday evening, 15th October, between 6 and 7, the prisoner came for a glass of ale, and gave my wife a half-crown, and I saw W give him a two-shilling piece and 4 1/2d. change—she put the half-crown in the till—about five minutes afterwards, in consequence of information, I vent to the till and found one half-crown, two sixpences, and two threepenny

pieces—the half-crown was bad—I gave it to the constable, and gave the prisoner into custody.

JONATHAN STREAMS (Policeman, K 219). On the evening of 15th October I received some information from Mrs. Little, and went in search of the prisoner—I found him in a ditch about thirty yards from the shop, lying down—there was another man with him, but he ran across the fields and I lost him—I took the prisoner back to Mrs. Little, and she identified him—I found 2s.3d. in silver, and 13d. in copper on him—I produce a shilling I got from Mrs. Little, and a half-crown I received from Henry Smith.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These two coins are bad.

Prisoner's Defence. I am as innocent as a child; I was never in custody before.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-997
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

997. EMMA JONES (25) , PLEADED GUILTY to Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin. Confined Nine Months.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-998
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment

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998. EDWARD CONNOR (19), THOMAS CLARY (20), and DANIEL ENRIGHT (40) , Robbery on Edward Roberts, and stealing 2l. 1s. 11d. and 1 tobacco-box, his property.

MR. PATER conducted the Prosecution.

EDWARD ROBERTO . I am a working smith, of 37, Deptford-green—I receive my wages on Saturday, and get 7s. a day—I worked six days and three-quarters, which made 2l. 9s. 3d., and I had 2s. in my pocket before receiving my money, at 1 o'clock in the day—on 15th October, I was going into King-street, Deptford, at about twenty minutes past 12 at night—I had had a little to drink, but was not the least intoxicated—I met the three prisoners, whom I have known by sight for eight or nine years—they came right up against me and hustled me—Connor and Clary struck me first, while Enright had hold of me, and put his hand in my outside waistcoat pocket, and took out 1s. 6d., 5d. in copper, and a tobacco-box—Enright said, "He is not up to anything"—Clary said, "I know better than that, for it's Saturday night, and he has got his wages"—Clary and Enright knocked me about with their fists, and struck me about my head—Connor struck me also—they threw me down, and Clary put his hand in my inside pocket and took two sovereigns out—they all kicked at me while I was on the ground, but who I received the kick in the eye from I cannot say—I was kicked about the head and body, and became insensible—I knew them by sight, but had never spoken to them.

Connor. Q. Are you quite certain you saw me in King-street, because I was at News at the time this happened? A. I am quite certain.

Enright. I know nothing about the case. I am very nearly blind, and have been for nearly two months.

JAMES BARRATT (Policeman, 224 R). On Sunday morning, 16th October, met Roberts in High-street—he gave me a description, and I went and vertook Connor in Hale-street, standing by the Hale Arms—I was in uniform, and when he saw me he walked away—I went up to him and told him I wanted him—he asked me, "What for?"—I told him for assaulting a man and robbing him of 2l.—he said he knew nothing about it—he was

taken to the station—Enright was taken on the Saturday night, and it go again on Sunday, 16th, as the prosecutor could not be found to press be charge, or identify him—I did not take him again till the Friday follow g—I then asked him where he was on Saturday night at 12 o'clock—he said, "I was here" (meaning where he was standing at that time, which was adjoining King-street)—I said, "Where were you from that time to 1 o'clock?"—he said, "I was walking about"—I asked him in what direction he went—he said, "Down Old King-street, as far as the Bull and Butcher public-house"—I asked him what he went down there for—he said, "To get a few happence to get my lodging"—I took him to the station—High-street adjoins King-street.

ALFRED JOHN CROUCH (Policeman) On Sunday morning, 16th October, I received a description of two people—I went to Pope's-buildings and found Clary getting into bed—his coat was lying on the bed, and he had pulled off; one boot—I told him to dress himself, as I was going to take him in custody on suspicion of being concerned, with others, in assaulting a person—he said, "You are very knowing; if you go and look after two other persons, you may find the money on them"—I had not said anything about any robbery—I took him to the station, and the prosecutor identified him—he said that he was at the Centurion between 12 and 1 o'clock, and had not been to: the bottom of Deptford at all—that is three-quarters of a mile from where it took place—he mentioned the names of two persons who were with him, but not these prisoners.

THOMAS BELCHER (Policeman, 234 R). On 15th October, about five minutes to 12, I was on duty in High-street, Deptford, and saw Connor and Enright about twenty or thirty yards from one another, and about ten minutes to I saw the three prisoners together in Old King-street, which adjoins New King-street—Dock-street runs from one to the other—I know them well by sight.

Connor. Q. What time was it when you saw me first? A. About half past 11—I do not know which way you went when you came out of the City Arms.

Clary. I never saw Enright at all on Saturday night Witness, I have no doubt that the prisoners were all together—I spoke to a constable about having seen them together.

Connor's Defence. This is a charge got up against me. I never saw the prosecutor till I was taken in custody, and I believe if any person had been taken in custody he would have sworn to them just the same. It was in Dock-street where a lot of low girls are, and I expect he got a hiding, and wanting to make somebody pay for it and first come first served. I was in the Duncan till twenty minutes or half-past 12. I came out with two female friends, came round King-street and Church-street, and met Clary. I saw Enright coming down King-street, and said, "Good night, Dan," He turned round and walked back again, and I passed on, and this constable walked into Hall-street. I know nothing about the case. The prosecutor did not look at me when he said I was one of the men. He was drunk; he could not hold himself up at the station.

JAMES BARRATT (re-examined). That is not true; he had been drinking, but knew very well what he was about.

Clary. He laid his head on the ground, and said that he would not say whether it was us or not.

Witness. Not in my presence.

Enright's Defence. I am innocent. I am nearly blind, and can hardly see my hand before me.

ARTHUR JOHN CROUCH (reexamined). Enright was not searched when I took him on Sunday. He was let go because the prosecutor could not be found.

Enright. I was searched on Sunday night. Witness. Not in my presence. It is not the practice to search persons unless they are charged.


CONNOR** and CLARY. **— Five Years' Penal Servitude. ENRIGHT†

Confined Eighteen Months.

Before Mr. Recorder.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-999
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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999. HENRY WATTS (16) , PLEADED GUILTY to Embezzling 2s. 1d. and 10s., the property of Leonard Fox, his master.— Confined Twelve Months.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-1000
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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1000. WILLIAM FALBACK (29) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. M. J. O'CONNELL conducted the Prosecution.

HARRIET BARRETT . I am the wife of Henry Barrett, and we keep a tobacconist's shop in Plumstead—on 20th September the prisoner came in and asked for half an ounce of tobacco, and gave me a shilling—after he left the shop I weighed the shilling, and found it was bad—I ran out to find the prisoner, but could not—I put the shilling in a box by itself—on 5th October, between 3 and 4, the prisoner came again—he asked for half an ounce of tobacco, which was three-halfpence, and gave me a bad two-shilling piece—I was prepared for him; I recognised him again—I waited to see what he would give me—I placed it between my teeth and found it was bad, and ran round the counter—I caught hold of him, and said, You villain, this is the third time I have caught you with bad money; now I will give you in charge"—I had a friend in the shop, who went for a constable, and I gave him the florin and the shilling—the prisoner said, when I caught hold of him, that I must be mistaken, for he had never been in the shop before.

EDGAR RADLEY (Policeman, 285 R). I was fetched to Mrs. Barrett's on 5th October, and found the prisoner there—Mrs. Barrett said he had uttered a two-shilling piece in payment for some tobacco, and that was the third time he had been there; that he had uttered a shilling about a fortnight before—she gave me this florin and shilling (produced)—the prisoner told her that she must be mistaken, for he was never in the shop before—I found 1s. 6d. in silver and 3 1/2d. in copper, good money, upon him.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These coins are both bad.

Prisoner's Defence. I was never in the shop before in my life.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-1001
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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1001. ELIZABETH FORD (43) , Feloniously wounding Alice Ford, with intent to do some grievous bodily harm.

MR. DALEY conducted the Prosecution.

ALICE FORD . I am the daughter of the prisoner, and live at 20, Wellington-street, Deptford, with my father and mother—on 1st October, about 10 at night, the prisoner came home and began calling my little sister names—she is about twelve years old—she called her a little w——I asked her what she meant by calling a baby such names—I sent my sister to bed—the prisoner then began at me, calling me names, and she took up a knife, and hit me in the Lice with it, on the left cheek—I bled a great deal, and ran out of the house into next door—she came out after me—Dr. Downing was sent for, and be dressed my wound.

Prisoner. Q. Did not you snatch the knife out of my hand? A. No, I did hot touch the knife.

WILLIAM BRADSHAW (Policeman, 161 B). On 1st October, about a quarter to 11, I went to the prisoner's house I asked her why she had stabbed her daughter—she said she did not do it; she came home with the cut—I waited till the father came home, and he gave her into custody—she was not sober.

Prisoner's statement before the Magistrate—"If I did it, I am truly sorry for it"

Prisoner's Defence. If I did it, I did it accidentally. I never did it on purpose.

GUILTY of unlawfully wounding. Confined Three Months.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-1002
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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1002. HENRY FOSTER (40) , Stealing 1 handkerchief and 1 lb. Of bread, the property of Samuel Davis.

MR. WOOD conducted the Prosecution.

SAMUEL DAVIS . I am a labourer, and live at 7, James-place, Deptford—on 4th October, from a quarter to half-past 6, I saw the prisoner in a public-house where I was—I put a bundle, containing tea and food, on a cask mere—the prisoner was in the side compartment—he came round to where I was—I missed the bundle, and, in consequence of what somebody said to me, I went after the prisoner down Old King-street, and saw him going across the water in a boat—I sang out to the waterman, "Bring your boat back, King; there is a man has got my bottle and food"—that was said loud enough for the prisoner to hear, and he turned round and threw my bottle overboard, and it sank directly—I then got into another man's boat to go after him, and I then saw him throw the handkerchief over with the food, and that sank too—I went across, and said to him, "Either pay me for what you have taken, or I shall give you in charge"—he said, "If you will come back to Deptford I will rectify it"—when I got him back he turned vary obstreperous, and would not pay me—I never saw him before that.

JOHN COLLINGS . I was at the Noah's Ark public-house, where the prosecutor and prisoner were—I saw the prisoner go to the cask and take the handkerchief, and put it under his coat—he then went round into another compartment, took another one, and went away—I told the prosecutor what had occurred.

ARTHUR ALLCOCK (Policeman, 286 R). I took the prisoner on 4th October, for stealing a bottle containing tea, and a handkerchief containing bread—he said that he was innocent of it at first—when I got him a little way down the street he stopped—I told him he had better make it up with the man—he said he should not have done it unless he had been drunk—he said he had been drunk; he was not exactly sober then.

JOHN POOLEY . I am a waterman at Deptford—the prosecutor got into my boat to be rowed after the prisoner—I noticed the prisoner drop a bottle overboard—I rowed after him, and Davis fetched him back again—I spoke to the prisoner—he said it was through drink, and I think he was—he had been drinking.

Prisoner's Defence. I might have taken it. I was very drunk, and had been drinking very hard.

GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-1003
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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1003. EDWIN BLOW (21) , PLEADED GUILTY to Stealing a loaf of bread, and other articles, in the dwelling-house of James Peacock Me received a good character.— Confined Three days.

Before Mr. Baron Martin.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-1004
VerdictNot Guilty > directed

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1004. HENRY BIRD (24) , Stealing 500 lbs, weight of yarn, the property of Thomas Humphreys.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS HUMPHREYS . I am a fire-wood merchant, of Bridge-wharf Lower-road, Deptford—in November last, the prisoner was working for me—his work was to twist and tear yarn into tyers, which are used in my business for tying up wood into bundles—he continued his work in that manner up to 18th August, at 1s. a chain—on that day I gave directions to my head man, Mr. Hope, that he should be supplied with a quantity of yarn to work up for me in the same way—they were to be delivered as soon as he had manufactured them.

WILLIAM HOPE . I am foreman to the prosecutor—on 18th August, by his direction, I delivered to the prisoner this order (Read:—"18th August, 1864. To Mr. Backhouse—please to deliver 530 lbs. weight of yarn for Thomas Humphreys.—William Hope")—the worth of that would be 14l. 9s. 1d—I have not received that quantity back from the prisoner—not any of that lot—he is that lot deficient—after ten days after receiving the order, the prisoner came to our office—I told him I wanted some more tyers—he said he wanted some yarn—I said, "You have got 50 chains to deliver now"—he said, "I can't deliver it, I have let a man have it to execute an order in the country, and he has gone away, and can't pay me for them—he had no authority to let any man have it—it was his duty to bring it back, after he had manufactured it into tyers.

The Court considered this did not amount to a Felony.


Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-1005
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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1005. HENRY WELLS (40) , PLEADED GUILTY to Embezzling and stealing the sums of 4l. 2s., 3l. 10s., and 4l. 18s., the moneys of Alfred James his master.— Five Years* Penal Servitude.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-1006
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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1006. ELIZA CALREATH (20) , PLEADED GUILTY to Stealing 15l. the moneys of Aaron Smith, after a previous conviction.— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-1007
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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1007. CHARLES NASH (34) , Unlawfully obtaining by false pretences an order far the payment of 201., with intent to defraud.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE and MR. RIBTON conducted the Prosecution, and MR. BEST the Defence.

FREDERICK JULIUS MACAULEY . I am assistant secretary to the London and South Western Railway Company—on the evening of 7th June, at a little after 7 o'clock, an accident occurred at Egham—two or three days afterwards I received this letter from the prisoner (Read;—"Dear Sir—I beg to call your most serious attention to an accident I met with in coming from Ascot on Tuesday evening last, 7th June, I was in the third carriage from the guard's van, and was run into by a train, which was coming at full speed on the same metals; we received an order to have all tickets ready, I noticed the guard of our train jump out, and I jumped out, and fell, and was picked up by a gentleman. I have had Mr. Hunt, my family physician, to see me, but feel no better. I beg to say it is bad management of the company's servants to allow a train at full speed to run into us.—Signed, Charles Nash.")—I replied on 10th June by this letter (Read.—"10th June, 1864. Sir—I am in receipt of your note of the 7th instant, and regret to

hear you are suffering by the late accident. An officer of the company will call upon you. ")—On Monday, the 13th, Mr. Jenkins called with the prisoner, and produced this certificate (Read:—"This is to certify that I have examined Mr. C. Nash; he is suffering from a severe concussion of the loins and back, he has a bruise on each leg, which is attended with much pain, an incised wound on the right eyebrow, and another below the left eye; he is much better in body; he is unable to attend to his business.—Alfred Hunt, surgeon. ")—I was present on the discussion of the subject between Nash, Jenkins, and the Secretary—the company consented to pay him 20l., which was paid by this cheque—I wrote the receipt and saw him sign it.

JOHN REDSHAW . I was the guard on the evening of this accident—it occurred at Egham, at 7. 29—the train arrived in London at 10. 36—mine was the first train from Egham which brought on the passengers.

ELIZABETH TURNER . I am single, and live with my father and mother, at 7, Tranquila-terrace—the prisoner resided there—his father was a lodger there, and occupied a parlour on the ground-floor, and a little room on the floor overhead—I heard of the railway accident the same night—the prisoner was in at tea that evening from a quarter past 4 to 5 o'clock—he went out at half-past 6 or nearly 7, and went straight down Tranquila-terrace—I believe he is married—he had a wife and three children at our house—they went out with him, all together, I believe—the elder boy is seven years old—I am sure I saw him come into tea when I was sitting at the kitchen window, at needle-work, and I was sitting at the window and saw him leave—he came home at twenty minutes to 3 next morning—I was sleeping in my mother's bed-room, because she was not well—the prisoner knocked at the door with his knuckles, and my father got up and let him in—he said, "Thank you, Mr. Turner," and walked up stain—I saw him next morning, at half-past 8, as I was going to work—he walked rather lame, and I asked him what was the matter with his feet—he said, "A horse has stepped on me, Betsy,"—when I came home to dinner, at about half-past 12, he was sitting in his parlour—he said nothing about the railway accident on the Egham line—I do not know what time he went out that day, I was at work—a little boy fetched him at about twenty minutes to 9.

Cross-examined. Is your father a witness in this case? A. Yes—the prisoner has lived in our house nine months—there has been a quarrel between him and my father—Mr. Martin first spoke to me about giving evidence, and before that Sergeant Oakley and one of the gentlemen came to fetch me from work—my father and I had not talked about this matter before that—I only asked him if he saw the paper—we had not talked about the gentleman coming from the company; he came about a week afterwards—nothing had passed—we had not talked about the railway, and the accident, and the prisoner being about to get something out of the railway for his accident during that week; that I swear—I have not been in service lately, I was a year and a half ago, with Mr. Harvey—I have a good character.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Why did you leave? A. Because the family were going abroad, and my father would not let me go—nothing has been said against my character, that I know of—I am still with my father—I have been dressmaking lately—the prisoner left our house a month or five weeks before his wife and children left.

JOHN TURNER . I am a painter and house-decorator, of Tranquila-terrace, Hammersmith—I recollect the accident at Ascot Races—on that day I left home at about 8 o'clock in the morning, just after the prisoner—I was

absent all day—I returned about 9 in the evening, and went to bed about 10—I was disturbed by the prisoner about twenty minutes to 3 o'clock—he knocked twice, and I let him in, and told him he was very late—he said, "Yes, I am," he first thanked me for letting him in—there did not seem to be anything the matter with him—I went down next morning at about half-past 8, and heard a conversation between him and my daughter—she went up for a pocket-handkerchief for me, and I heard him say, "Good morning, Miss Turner"—she said, "You seem lame," he said, "Yes, a horse has stepped on my toe"—shortly afterwards I went out, and heard there had been an accident—I saw him on Thursday, but he said nothing about the accident—he spoke to me about going to the Sessions House, Clerkenwell—on Friday morning he said that he had met with an accident, and had written to the railway company, and expected some one to call, he had to go to Clerkenwell Sessions House, but was very anxious to get back, as he expected the secretary to call—he showed me his leg, and I saw bruises—I said, "You told my daughter the other morning that a horse had stepped on your toe," he said, "Oh, I might have said so, but I did not mean if—his wife said, "That scratch on your eye is more like a woman scratching you than anything else, I do not believe you were in the accident at all"—I do not think he made any answer to that—he left my house about a fortnight afterwards on a Sunday, and I did not see him after that—his wife and family remained behind for some considerable time.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you and he had some accommodation-bills together? A. Well, there were some bills—he accepted a bill for me—he did not have to pay it; it never has been paid—he only accepted one bill—he gave me a bill previous to that—he gave me one for 20l.—that was not for the purpose of being cashed for him, but for myself—I was given in custody by him on a charge of stealing that bill, and taken before Mr. Ingham, the Magistrate at Hammersmith—I was discharged in consequence of it taking place in Bow-street district, and not Hammersmith—on leaving the Court, I was not taken in custody by a Sheriff's officer; it was five or six days after—I have never said since to any one that the prisoner should rue the day when he gave me in custody—I know a person named Lyons, and I have seen him lately—I never told him that I would fix the prisoner for looking me up—Lyons did ask me whether the prisoner really was at the races or not—I replied that I did not know, as I had not seen him that day—I did not also say that I had got the prisoner right now, and I owed him a spite as well as Seymour—I never thought of such a thing—I did not say that I would give him as much as I possibly could, or that it was the worst day's work I ever did in locking the prisoner up, for I really believed he was at Ascot.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. How long before the accident was it that you were given in custody? A. It was after the accident: no, upon my word, I forget whether it was before or after the accident—no charge has been made against me at Bow-street or anywhere else—I lent my acceptance, and he lent his.

ELIZABETH TURNER . I am the wife of the last witness—the prisoner lodged in our house—I heard of the accident at Egham on the morning after it happened, Wednesday—I do not remember at what time I heard of it—I was at home all day on the 7th, the day of the accident, I never went out at all—the prisoner came in to his tea between 5 and 6, and went out again near upon 7 o'clock; and it was on the following day that I heard of the accident—I saw it in a newspaper—a little boy fetched it, and

he read it—I do not remember his telling me anything after he had seen the newspaper—I saw the prisoner's leg—it was a little bruised, and it turned green and black on the shin-bone—I did not notice anything on his face.

Cross-examined. Q. When did you tell any one about the prisoner being at home on the day of the Ascot accident? A. I do not know—I first I mentioned what I have told you to-day on a Thursday—I do not remember I how long afterwards that was.

THOMAS SEYMOUR . I am landlord of the Greyhound public-house, Fulham I—I know the prisoner—on the day of the accident at Egham, I left my house at half-past 6 to go to Hammersmith on an errand; and on returning, I passed by the end of the Fulham-road, and saw the prisoner going towards the river—I have known him since October, 1862—he was then gardener to Dr. Winslow, and I was in the same service—at the time I saw the prisoner, I met a man named Gibbs, who made a remark to me about him—I then I returned home, and heard of the accident the next evening—some days after—I wards, I heard that the prisoner had represented that he was at the accident, I but I thought he would not make a claim on the company.

Cross-examined. Q. How far off were you? A. About one hundred yards—I had known him before; I was an attendant at Dr. Forbes Winslow's—I slept in the house, and in all parts of England where my capacity called me, and sometimes in Scotland—he and I had no quarrel at Dr. Winslow's—I never got spirits for patients, or porter; it was strictly prohibited—the prisoner wrote to the Commissioners of Police stating that kept a disorderly house, thieves, and prostitutes, and all sorts of things, and said that it was a good thing he was not a man with money, or I should spend 100l. over him—it was not true—I never said that I would get him. out of Hammer-smith—I should have brought an action—I should have wanted money out of him, but not his removal.

COURT. Q. What time in the evening did you see the prisoner on the 7th? A. As near a quarter to 7 as could be—I left the house at a quarter-past 6, and returned at a quarter to 7.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. What was the date of the letter? A. 3d June—nobody connected with me keeps a disorderly house—I never had any complaint—it is quite untrue.

MR BEST. Q. When you saw the prisoner in company with Gibbs, did Gibbs say, "There is your friend?" A. Yes; and I said, "It is a good job I am not near him, or else I should give him a shaking."

THOMAS GIBBS . I am a stableman, and have been in the employment of Mr. Matthews twenty-nine years next March—I heard of this accident on the Wednesday morning—I recollect seeing the prisoner on the day of the accident, and I said to Mr. Seymour;," There is your, friend"—I am sure it was the prisoner, for I have known him many a long year, ever since he first came into Fulham-fields—it was in the evening, but I did not notice the time—I heard on the Thursday that he was going to claim compensation, which astonished my mind.

Cross-examined. Q. How near were you to him? A. Not one hundred yards away, about seven houses down from the road.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Have you any doubt it was he? A. I am quite certain it was he.

GEORGE WALE . I live at 23, Tranquila-terrace, Hammersmith, and was formerly beadle of the parish and summoning officer—I know Nash—I have seen him about—I heard of the accident at Egham next day, Wednesday,

8th June—I recollect seeing the prisoner the day before—he passed by my window about a quarter before 7 in the evening, coming in the direction from his house and going towards Queen-street, and somebody drew my attention to him at a quarter to 7 as near as can be—I afterwards heard of his claim against the company.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you a plumber? A. I served my time to that trade—I was parish-constable for nine years—the parish discharged me—that was not for keeping witness's money, nothing of the kind—it was for getting intoxicated.

ELIZA WALE . I heard of the accident at Egham—I saw the prisoner at a quarter or twenty minutes to 7—I knew him well by sight, and am quite sure it was he.

Cross-examined. Q. Where were you? A. At work in my parlour—I could see the road from there—I heard of the accident next day, and it may be a week afterwards I heard he would soon have a good thing from the railway—a man who was speaking about it told me that—I never mentioned it to my husband.

THOMAS COTON . I am a labourer, in the employ of Fulham parish—I have worked on the roads thirty-seven or thirty-eight years, and for the parish since 1st July—before that, I worked for the Commissioners—I have known the prisoner about eighteen months—I heard of the accident at Egham three or four days afterwards—it occurred on 7th June—I saw the prisoner that day at the end of Chancellor-street, Hammersmith, from half-past 7 to 8 o'clock—he asked me if I knew where George Mercer was, and I said that I did not know, neither did I care—I am sure it was 7th June, because it was on my birthday.

Cross-examined. Q. Who was the man you saw last before you saw Nash? A. I do not remember—I saw plenty of people before him—the next person I saw was the landlady where I went to fetch a pot of ale—I do not know who the next man was, but the next woman was my wife—I do not recollect what day of the week it was, but it was 7th June.

GEORGE FLETCHER (Policeman, F 114). I am warrant-officer at Hammersmith Police-1; court—I had a warrant to apprehend the prisoner, and was nearly two months before I could find him—I found him on 7th August, living at Plymouth, in the name of Wheeler—I sent an officer in to inquire for Mr. Wheeler—he brought him out—I said, "Are you Mr. Wheeler?—he said, "Yes"—I said, "I thought your name Was Nash; I have got a warrant for you; you must go with me"—he said, "Very well"—he was told that I took him for obtaining a coat of Mr. Swainson—on the way to the station, he said, "Have you anything against me?"—I said, "Yes, I have a warrant against you for obtaining some money from the South Western Railway"—he said, "That is wrong," and went to the station.

MR. BEST called

EDWARD GURTIN . I live at 9, Alfred-street, Montpellier-square, Brompton, and am assistant to Hunt and Roskell, jewellers, of 156, New Bond-street—on Tuesday, 6th June, I took a silver cup, called the "Royal Hunt Cup," down to Ascot Races—I started from Waterloo-station at a little after ten—a man named Nash went down in the carriage with me—the prisoner is the man—a lady was with him, who I saw outside just now—I cannot say her name—I believe something passed between us, such as "A nice day for the races," or something about the horses, which I had no interest in—I never was at a race before—I took the cup down, and remained in charge of it—I saw no more of the prisoner till the evening—it was just about 7 when I left

the Grand Stand, and it would be ten minutes or a quarter past when I got to the station—I walked past a carriage in which the prisoner was to another behind—I forget whether it was full, but I returned, and, recognising his face, got into the same carriage—I do not remember what sort of carriage it was—I paid half-a-sovereign to go there and back—there were no cushions to the seat—the same lady was with him then—an accident took place just as we were leaving, before the train got into full speed—the prisoner was sitting on the right of the engine—he bad his head out at the window, and said, "Here is a man just jumped out of the carriage"—he had barely seated himself before a crash came, and after the crash was over I saw him bleeding from some part of his forehead, the right side, I think—as soon as the train stopped a great many of the people got out, and he got out also, and the lady with him—he complained of his shins being cut very much, as well as his forehead—I did not see his shins—I was assisting some other gentleman who was more hurt—I held him up and unloosed his collar—I then got into the same carriage with Nash and the lady, and came to town with them—I did not get a cab for the lady, she left him and he remained with me—we went to a large public-house opposite, the "Waterloo," and had some ale to drink—the lady was with him then, and after that he went outside and saw the lady into a Hansom cab—he leant on my shoulder, still complaining of his shins being hurt, and walked slowly over Waterloo-bridge—as soon as we got over the bridge, or a very short distance after, he said he should like a cup of tea or some refreshment—we went into a coffee-shop on the right hand side and had a cup of tea, and, I think, a slice of bread and butter—he asked in what direction I was going—I said, "Brompton"—we walked about a dozen yards, got into a Hansom's cab, and drove to the Knightsbridge cabstand, where I got out and wished him good night, and he ordered the cabman to drive him to the Broadway, Hammersmith.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. I suppose you are still in the service of Hunt and Roskell? A. Tee—I had never seen the prisoner before, or the female—I heard of a gentleman named Jenkins, and I think her name is Jenkins—no, it is my mistake, Watkins—Jenkins is a mistake altogether—I am astonished at it myself—I cannot account for such a mistake, no more than I heard the name—I said at first that I did not know what her name was till that gentleman (MR. BEST) mentioned the name of Watkins—I could not have thought of her name otherwise—I saw her at the Hammersmith police-court, and treated her to a glass of ginger beer or something, being the only person I knew there—I heard her evidence, and heard her give her name—I do not know her Christian name better—I never heard it to my knowledge—it would surprise me if I heard that her name is Priscilla—it was quite an accident my going in the same carriage, and my getting into the same carriage coming up was very odd—Nash made a remark about it—he said, "It is very strange that this gentleman should go up and down in the same carriage"—he said that to all who were in the carriage, I presume—perhaps it was to me, or it might be to the lady who was with him; I do not know.

Q. Just see what you have sworn—that he said it to you, to the lady, and to the people in the carriage; which did he say it to? A. I do not know; but I know he did say it—I cannot tell you positively who he said it to—I was sitting with my face toward the engine at the time of the accident—I cannot say whether I was next to Miss Watkins, but I was sitting face toward the engine, one from the window, or next the window, I do not know which—I do not know how near I was to Miss Watkins—if I was next to the

window I was nearer Nash—on my solemn oath before God and man I cannot say where I was—Nash was on the right side coming up, with his back to the window and in the corner—I cannot say whether the girl was opposite him or by his side—I do not know whether I was sitting next to her—I was in the carriage, and was shook myself by the collision—I did not see what occurred to Nash—I saw nothing till I saw him bleeding—the girl was not bleeding—I saw no outward bruise upon her—I noticed her the same as I should any other fellow passenger—when I first saw Nash, immediately after the accident, he was sitting up, and complained of his shins being hurt—I gave my address to him—I was not the only gentleman who did so, Mr. Graham, of Onslow-terrace, gave his card, and I gave my name with pencil and paper as I had no card of my own—it is not true that he was stunned, and that I picked him up—nobody picked him up, and he was not stunned—he was not picked up in my presence—if he had been picked up I should have seen it—I will swear that he was not picked up—we got up to Waterloo station between 10 and 11 o'clock; I cannot tell you within half-au-hour—I did not remain in the carriage till we got there—we got out at Staines and got in again, and he or the lady said, "You won't leave us," and I got into the same carriage again with them and came up to London—we went to a public-house near the station and remained there a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes—I did not exactly see him put the lady into the cab; I saw her after she was in—Nash fetched the cab.

Q. But your legs were sound and his were bad? A. Why should I be interested in other people's business?—they were the greatest strangers to me—I do not know why I remained with them—it would have been something like a good Samaritan to fetch a cab, but he had only to go to the door for one—I did not know that a cab was necessary for the girl—I know he went to the door for it—I do not know why I did not go, my legs being quite well.

MR. BEST. Q. Do you know for what purpose he went to the door? A. He said that he should go and get a cab—I do not know whether there is a cab stand close to the door—(Priscilla Watkins teas called into court)—that is the person I went with both down and back.

COURT. Q. In your first answer almost you said you went down with a gentleman named Nash; he was a stranger to you before? A. Yes, and he was seated in the carriage when I came from Waterloo-station with my cup—I did not learn his name till I was at Hammersmith police-court—I was not familiar with him—he might have told me his name on the evening of the accident, but I cannot remember it.

PRISCILLA WATKINS , In June last I was living in Vine-place, Old Kent-road—I know the prisoner by going down to the races with him on 7th June—we went by the 10. 10 train, I think—the carriage was full and the last witness was in it; he went down and returned with us—I spent the day with the prisoner at the races—I know a person named Bacchus—I saw him and spoke to him on the race-course—the prisoner also spoke to him—I took something to drink with him, but I cannot say what it was—we came back by the railroad, and were in the accident very near a cottage in a field, and a gentleman out of the cottage brought us some brandy, but I did not have any of it—the prisoner had his eye cut, and his lens were very much hurt—we waited after the accident and came up by another train to town, and the last witness with us—after we arrived in town Mr. Nash, Mr. Gurtin, and I went across to a public-house and had some refreshment—we stayed about ten minutes or a quarter of an hour, and then I took a cab and went home.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Are you married or

single? A. Single—I said that I was married, bat that was a mistake on my part—it was a falsehood—I did not say I was married to the prisoner—I have not gone by his name—I did not pass as his wife at the races—I did pass as his wife for a short time—I might have told two or three people that I was Mrs. Nash, not more—I did not know that he had a wife already—he said that he was single—he and I lived together as man and wife, and I represented myself as Mrs. Nash—that might be three weeks before, or it might be four—I was sitting next the window at the time of the accident, and he sat with his back to the engine the other side—I am not positive whether Mr. Gurtin sat next me—he did sit next me talking to me, and be gave me some of his papers that he had for the cups that he took down—I have not a doubt that he was sitting next me, chatting with me—when the accident happened, Mr. Nash's eyebrow was cut—I did not see anybody pick him up, and I do not think anybody did, but the excitement at the time does not give you power to remember—I remember when we got to the public-house at Waterloo-station there was a cab passing by, and we hailed it, not before we went in, after we came out—we all three came out of the public-house together—we did not walk a little way, only to the kerb—we waited on the kerb till a cab passed, and I got into it—I left Mr. Nash and Mr. Gurtin behind—I had met Mr. Nash at the railway that morning by appointment—I was injured, and obtained 20l. compensation from the company.

GEORGE HENRY BACCHUS . I live at 2, Homer-street, North Lambeth—I am a clerk—I was at Ascot races—I do not remember the date; it was the day of the accident, and the only day I was there—I knew the prisoner before that—I saw him at Ascot races twice that day; the first time was about 1 o'clock—I spoke to him; I knew him from meeting him at shooting matches—he was with a female in a hat and feather, which drew my attention to her, being rather gay, and I said, "All you ready, pull," which is a term we make use of at shooting matches—I saw him a second time, after the Ascot stakes were run for, that was about 3 o'clock, and we went and had some refreshment together.

Crow-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Who is your employer? A. I have none—I call myself a clerk—I have been in a situation eight years, and have only just left—I am not exactly a betting man—I do commissions—I do not gain a livelihood by it, but do it for amusement.

Q. But betting on commission implies that you are paid for it? A. Undoubtedly, but it is not all pay, I can tell you—I get a salary for bettings—I make a gentleman's book, and keep it for him, and get a commission as well—that is my clerkship—I have done that eight months; before that I was at Sir Robert Burney's, the distiller's—I have bet with the prisoner at shooting matches; I have bet a shilling that he would kill or not kill—he is a very capital shot—I shoot too.

JOHN SERJEANT. I live at Bracknell, East Hampstead—I was at Ascot races on the Tuesday—I know the prisoner well—I saw him there about 1 o'clock, just before the first race commenced—I spoke to him, we talked together from five to seven or eight minutes—a young woman was with him—I should not know her, as she passed on when Charles spoke to me—I do not know whether I saw him again, I fancy I passed him on the course.

ALFRED HUNT . I am a surgeon of Hammersmith—these certificates are in my writing—I gave them to the prisoner, I had previously examined

him—I believe the contents of this certificate to be true as to what was the matter with him.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Do you mean that you do believe so now? A. I think, perhaps, I have slightly exaggerated them—I believe that I should have given this certificate on reflection—I believe he was suffering from the injuries I have stated, but in one certificate I said that he was very severely injured, that I took for granted—I examined him, and he complained of pain in those parts, but I could not prove it medically—he told me that he had been stunned—I do not recollect that he told me he bad been picked up insensible—the marks were not black and green on Wednesday when I examined him—I did not say that as it appeared in the papers; I said that they were discoloured—the Magistrate asked me whether they would become black and green in the course of one day—I do not know what made him ask me that.

MR. BEST. Q. Was there a wound on his head? A. There was a puncture on his eyebrow and nose, and his shins were bruised.

JAMES LYONS . I live at Hammersmith, and am servant to Mr. George William Jones, of 25, Essex-street, Strand:—I know the witness Turner, who has been examined to day—I have seen him since the prisoner has been charged with this offence—it was about six weeks ago—in the course of a conversation respecting this case the name of Wale was brought up, and he said, "Well, I believe myself the man was at Ascot," and that it was the worst day's work that Nash ever did to put him in prison on that bill—he said, "Were you at Ascot?"—I said, "Now you are asking a question, which I shall not answer;" but I said, "It is my belief that Wale is wrong in saying that he saw him on that day," and then he laughed—he did not speak to me about the prisoner at any other time.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Did Nash lodge with you once? A. Yes; he left me because I believe he got a situation in the neighbourhood of Hendon.


24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-1008
VerdictsNot Guilty > unknown; Miscellaneous > no agreement

Related Material

1008. CHARLES NASH (34), was again indicted for unlawfully obtaining 1 coat, from James Swainson, by false pretences.

MR. F. H. LEWIS conducted the Prosecution, and MR. BEST the Defence.

JAMES SWAINSON . I am a tailor of 5, King-street, Hammersmith—a gentleman, named Edmunds, has for some years past been an occasional customer of mine—last April the prisoner came, and said, "I want a coat"—I showed him some pieces of goods, and he said, "This one will do;" a tweed, I believe he has it on now—I told him it would be 33s. for cash; he said, "Very well"—he said that he was servant to Mr. Edmunds, of Crab Tree—that is not a public-house, it is a local district—he said, "I am superintending an estate belonging to Mr. Edmunds, which he has purr chased at Willesden; I have a great deal to do in managing matters for him"—I took his measure, and got the coat ready to try on on the following Wednesday, when he called, tried it on, and arranged to call for it on Friday—he came on Friday, and said, "I have no time to stop to settle for it now, I have to go to Willesden; I have a number of men fencing in to pay, and must go and look after them, you know nobody will look after them like yourself, and I shall be very much obliged if you will send it down home for me," handing me a card, and I thought from that that he was a respectable man, and a housekeeper, I sent the coat home on the representation that he was servant to Mr. Edmunds, and was managing the estate, and had to go and superintend the men—he said, "You know that

little nursery on the Fulham-road, that belongs to me"—I did not get the money—I went down myself on 23d April and on Saturday 80th April, haying previously sent my son—the prisoner came in when there was some talk with his wife about altering the coat—he took it out of her hand, and she said, "Mr. Swainson has called for the coat to alter"—he said, "The coat does not want altering"—I said, "Mr. Nash, it appears from your conduct that you never intended to pay for the coat, and that it is a complete swindle on your part; and unless you give up the coat or pay for it, I shall certainly apply at the police-court"—putting out my hand to take the coat he said, "No, no, possession is nine points of the law," and ran upstairs with it—I did not apply to the Magistrate for a month afterwards, as I was very busy at the time—I found out on 23d April that he was not servant to Mr. Edmunds—Turner, who has been here to-day, is not a friend of mine, I only know him by going to the house, and asking for Nash—I sent, but Turner being had up charged with stealing a bill on that very day, I told the prisoner that he had obtained the coat by false pretences; and it was in the Court that I was advised to take out a summons, that was the reason—I should not have thought it worth it without—I happened to be in Court, and I charged Nash with obtaining the coat by false pretences—I was advised to take a summons out, and asked the Magistrate, and he granted me one—this is the card the prisoner gave me (produced)—have been at his lodgings, but I understood from this card that he was a housekeeper.

COURT. Q. How does this represent that he is a housekeeper? A. If a man has an address card I should suppose so—(Read: "Henry C. Nash, gardener and florist; gardens laid out by the day, week, month, or year.")

Cross-examined. Q. I understand that he took up the coat, and defied you, and you took a month to consider of it? A. Yes; when I Sent the coat home, I sent the invoice for 1l. 13s.—when I went to his wife I did not say that I had been sent by Mr. Nash, to get the coat to alter it, because it did not fit—I said that I had called for the coat that Mr. Nash had said wanted altering—he had not said so—I think it was quite right to make a pretence to get the coat—it was no lie.

COURT. Q. When you said it would be thirty-three shillings, had you made up your mind to furnish him with the coat? A. Certainly, for cash—he promised to call and pay for it—my reason was because he represented himself as Mr. Edmund's servant, and that he was superintending an estate—when he called he said, "I have some men fencing in Mr. Edmund's estate; I have no time to stop and settle; if you will tend it home, I will call and pay for it to-morrow"—that induced me to send it home, his fifing a day for payment—I let him have it, because he said that he was servant to Mr. Edmund's.

Q. You said just now distinctly, that you let him have it because he fixed a day for paying for it; have I made a mistake or you? A. I let him have it on his representations—it was because he said that he was servant to Mr. Edmund's, and was employed to layout the estate at Willesden.

MR. LEWIS. Q. Would you have-parted with your coat without believing the truth of those representations? A. Certainly not—when I say I let him have it, I mean that I parted with it—I have "his order in my pocket-book, with his representations put down at the time—I know nothing about Mr. Turner—I was no party to the last charge, that of the South Western Railway Company.

JOHN THOMAS EDMUNDS . I live at Crab-tree, Fulham—I did not, in April last, purchase any property at Fulhem—the prisoner was not in my

service to superintend any grounds there, nor had I men employed in fencing in grounds there—he was in my employment in the January proceeding, as gardener, in the name of Norsee.

Cross-examined. Q. Was that a nickname? A. Oh dear no, I am not given to being witty—it was a genuine name—he is a gardener now and then, daily—he got plants for me now and then—he was only a jobbing gardener.

MR. LEWIS. Q. Was Norsee the name he gave you? A. Yes.

GEORGE FLETCHER . I executed this warrant (produced) and took the prisoner in custody—it is dated 28th June, 1864—it is a warrant granted for not appearing to a summons, which had been served at his residence—I took him at Plymouth, in the name of Wheeler, on this charge—I told him I had a warrant for him, and he would have to go with me for obtaining a coat of Mr. Swainson—he said, "Very well; I will go with you."

JAMES SWAINSON (re-examined). The coat was ordered on Friday—he came to try it on on the following Wednesday, and I sent it home on the following Friday.


The prisoner was subsequently tried upon a third charge of unlawfully obtaining goods of Mr. Bull, by false pretences, when the Jury being unable to agree, were discharged, without giving any verdict.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-1009
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

1009. FREDERICK LAURIE (21) , Feloniously having in his custody a mould for making counterfeit-coin.


conducted the Prosecution.

ANN STOKES . I am the wife of John Stokes, a carpenter, and keep a shop in Trafalgar-street, Walworth—on 18th September, a man came for a quartern loaf and a penny candle—he gave me a half-crown—I gave him two shillings and twopence halfpenny change, and afterwards found that the half-crown was bad—I gave it to my husband.

JOHN STOKES . I am the husband of the last witness—she gave me this half-crown—I did not see the man utter it, but I had a conversation with him, and then left—I found him on 29th September, and he took me to the prisoner's house—nothing was said, but the prisoner gave the man half a crown in my presence, and be gave it to me—I showed it to Sergeant Cole, and gave it to Sergeant Townsend.

Prisoner. Q. Did you see the man come to my place? A. No.

GEORGE HULL (Policeman, P 32). On 30th September, from a quarter to half-past 7 in the morning, in consequence of information from Stokes, I went to a cottage in Trafalgar-mews, Walworth-road—I knocked at the door, and a woman looked out at the window, and then came down and let me in—I went in, and found the prisoner in the workshop at the back, in his shirt, lying on some bass on a carpenter's bench—I told him to get up and put his clothes on—I took him into the front room and said, "You are not the man I came for; I suppose you know the purpose of my visit here"—he said, "I suppose I do"—I told him to sit down, and put No. 55 to take care of him—I said, "I believe you have got some moulds here; a party was up here last night, and I believe you gave him a half-crown"—he said, "Well, it was one I lent him; the young man had been at work for me"—I said, "From the appearance of the house, here is a lot of plaster of Paris about, and I believe this is a manufacturing place of counterfeit coin; I shall search the house"—he said, "I have nothing here"—in the right hand corner of the carpenter's shop, I saw that some bricks had been secretly removed from the floor, and earth scattered over them—I removed the

bricks, and found these two bottles, one full of sulphuric acid, and the other partly full; a zinc plate, a piece of copper wire, a piece of split cane, and a small vessel which is used as a galvanic-battery—Varney called to me that he had found two moulds which he produced—I took the prisoner out of the kitchen, showed them to him, and told him he need not say anything—he said, "I know nothing about those; if there is anything here, it has been put here by the man"—the other constable took him to the station—I then went back, went into the front room, and found two files containing white metal, one in an open box, and the other in a drawer, which was not locked, some sand, containing white metal, a small funnel, and some plaster of Paris—I received this bad half-crown from Stokes, on the night of the 29th.

JOHN VARNEY (Policeman, P 333). I was with Hull—I found in a cupboard, on the right side of the fire-place, some brown paper, such as is used for holding moulds; also this large pot for acid—in the back place where the prisoner was sleeping, on moving the bricks, there were some shavings, and on moving them there were two moulds separately wrapped up—the prisoner said, "I know nothing of them; if anything has been put here, it has been put by the man"—after taking him to the station, I searched under the rafters of the shed, and found five bad half-crowns—I searched the prisoner before he left the house, and found a half-sovereign, 2s., and 5s. in silver, among which was a half-crown corresponding with the other—I also found this knife with white metal on the point of it—up the chimney I found a tin can with some fused metal in it, part of which is a get.

ELLEN DIGBY . I am the landlady of the house—my husband let it to Smith, and the prisoner has brought the rent to the shop, and paid it to my niece.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This is a mould for a shilling, and this is for a threepence—here is a good shilling and good threepence, which have been used for making these moulds—here is everything necessary for making counterfeit coin—this a portion of a get, which is the surplus metal from the mould, part of which is melted away—it has been thrown into molten metal.

Prisoner's Defence. I am a carpenter, and contract for general repairs—I employ workmen to help me. I am single, and have no one to take of my place. I have to leave the workmen there while I am out: they knew that I should not be home at night, and it may be a trap which they have laid for me, to have an opportunity to take what few tools I have—a young man, a polisher, was the last workman I had, and the policeman found him polishing at my place—he passed a bad half-crown, and afterward came into my room, closed the door, and said, "Will you oblige me by lending me a half-crown?" I said, "What for?" He said, "I had occasion to borrow one of a man I met, and he insists on my paying it. "I lent him one, and said that he might come and work it out. There is a trap laid to get me into the snare. As to the plaster of Paris, I had only that week contracted for some painting and whitewashing, and repairing some ceilings. I have to stop the holes with plaster of Paris. The workmen can do what they like when I am out, and I was at work at Peck ham. If I had known that this was being carried on, I would not have allowed it. I do not know the polisher's address.

JURY to WILLIAM WEBSTER. Q. Would not the plaster of Paris used for moulds be different from that used for building? A. No, there is only one kind, but there is a superior and inferior quality—you always get the first for making a mould—that of which these moulds are made is not so good as the generality; it is very soft.

GUILTY . **— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

The following prisoners PLEADED GUILTY to uttering counterfeit coin:

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-1010
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

1010. JAMES PARKER (39) . [Uttering counterfeit coin: see original trial image.]— Confined Nine Months. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-1011
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

1011. WILLIAM HARPER* (22) [Uttering counterfeit coin: see original trial image.]— Confined Nine Months. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]And

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-1012
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentencesImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

1012. HENRY WEEKES (46), and JANE WILLIAMS (35) , to Unlawfully having in their possession certain coining instruments; also Feloniously making counterfeit coin. WEEKES**— Seven Years' Penal Servitude. WILLIAMS**— Five Years Penal Servitude. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-1013
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

1013. CHARLES M'CARTHY (28), and JOHN CHASSION (25) , Burgloriously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Matthew Leather, and stealing therein 2 sheets, 1 counterpane, and other articles, his property.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

MARY ANDREWS . I am the wife of Henry Andrews, and live with my daughter, at 50, Hat field-street, at present—on Sunday, 2d October, I was living in the prosecutor's house, Mr. Leather—I was the last person in my daughter's apartment, and fastened it at twenty-five minutes to 9—next morning, at quarter-past 8, I unlocked the back-kitchen, and found the window half open—I missed all the clothes from a basket—that window was shut the night before, but the fastening was broken—I missed all these things (produced)—these are all my daughter's.

THOMAS HORLOCK (Policeman, B 215). On the morning of 3d October, I saw the prisoners coming down Duke-square—I had seen them before, and knew them again—they were walking together, and McCarthy had this white bundle—I asked them what they had got in it, and they ran down Snow's-rents, towards St. Ermin's-hill—McCarthy threw down the bundle—I followed them, but slipped down—I picked it up.

M'Carthy. Q. When you first saw me, what distance was I from you? A. About nine yards—you were coming towards me—I did not stop you because you ran away—you were about three yards from me when you went into Snow's-rents—you gained ten or eleven yards on mo before I saw you again—I was about ten yards from you when you put the bundle down—I did net see round the corner.

MR. COOPER. Q. Have you any doubt that you met the prisoners? A. No; I was about nine yards from M'Carthy when I asked him what he had in the bundle.

GEORGE CURZON (Policeman, B 272). I saw the prisoners at about 3 o'clock coming down St. Ermin's-hill, followed by Harlock, who had the bundle—I am sure the prisoners were together—they came from St. Ermiu's-hill, across into Dacre-street, Westminster.

M'Carthy. Q. Was I running? A. You walked across Great Chapel-street, past me, and then you ran.

CORNELIUS JEHAU (Policeman, B 70). On 3d October, about 3 o'clock in the morning, I received information, and found the prisoners together in the Broadsanctuary, Westminster—I followed them into Abingdon-street—M'Carthy ran into Poet's-corner, and Chassion ran down Abingdon-street—I was in uniform—they were walking, but when they saw me they ran—M'Carthy out of Poet's-corner into Abingdon-street—I caught him, and told him he was wanted for dropping a bundle—he said that he could clear himself when he got to the station—I found a duplicate on him, and some matches.

M'Carthy's Defence. Horlock has given different distances at different times Can a man see nine yards through a dwelling-house? If I had laid down the bundle, could not he take it up, and call a person to apprehend me? There were four men whom he could have called to stop me.

Chassion's Defence. I left where I was living to go with a friend to

Liverpool—I met McCarthy, and the policeman stopped up quick. I am on a ticket-of-leave, and have bad to show myself every month. I have been getting an honest living ever since I was out M'Carthy will tell you the same. I was too earnest in telling him about this person who went to Liverpool to do anything else; he was unfortunate like myself.

GUILTY .—They were both further charged with having been before convicted, M'Carthy at Winchester in July, 1860, and Chassion at this Court in January, 1862; to which they both

PLEADED GUILTY.**— Ten Years' Penal Servitude.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-1014
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > lesser offence
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment

Related Material

1014. DENNIS MANGON (38), FREDERICK FRAER (24), BRIDGET MANGON (25), MARY ANN ROONEY (18), and ELLEN HORNER (18) , Breaking into the warehouse of Cooper Tress, and stealing 249 yards of velvet, and 844 yards of plush, his goods. Second Count, feloniously receiving the same goods.

MR. BEST conducted the Prosecution, and MR. PATER defended the Mangons, Fraer and Horner; MR. MONTAGUE WILLIAMS defended Rooney. JAMES DOYLE. I am a porter in the employ of Mr. Tress the prosecutor, who is a velvet and plush manufacturer, having a warehouse in Church-passage, Blackfriars-road—about half-past 8, on the evening of 8th September, I shut up that warehouse, and made all safe—there was a large quantity of plush and velvet there in the strong room when I left—I came there about 7 the next morning, and found a different padlock on the door—I could not get the key in—I sent for the police, had the lock broken off, and went in—I found the counting-house, the doors, and everything broken, and the goods all thrown about the place.

HENRY MALLETT . I live at No. 2, Brunswick-street, and I am in the employment of Mr. Doughty, a chemist, of 26, Blackfriars-road—his shop is near Mr. Tress's warehouse; one shop round the comer—it is next but one to us—I shut up Mr. Doughty's shop at 10 o'clock on 8th September last—I heard a knocking at the door at Mr. Tress's—I went and looked, and saw that man (Mangon), and two other men sitting on the door-step of the warehouse—on the following morning I heard that it had been broken into, and I communicated to the police what I bad seen.

Cross-examined by Mr. PATER. Q. When were you taken to see if you could identify any of the men you saw that night? A. Last Friday fortnight—I had not seen the man I now say is Mangon between 8th September and that time—he was not alone when I saw him—Fraer was there, and some more—I said the man I saw there had a moustache then—Inspector Edmunds said to me, "Come along; you have seen quite enough," and as I went out I said, "That is the man," pointing to Mangon—I took no particular notice of the men on the step; but I knew Mangon again—I think he had the same clothes on as he has now; I will not swear as to that.

ELIZA RANDELL . I live at 16, Bennett-street—on September, about 10 or a little after, I was in Church-passage, Blackfriars-road—I saw three men there—two were sitting at the door, and one was walking about—it was at Mr. Tress's door—I think I saw them five times that day—Mangon and Fraer were two of them.

Cross-examined by PATER. Q. Had you ever seen the men before that night? A. Not that I know of—they were strangers to me—I was taken to bee them on 1st October—I had no suspicion of them when I saw them

on 8th—I had no particular reason for noticing them—I can't say how they were dressed—the man now speak to as Mangon, had a moustache—the other man had not, as I know of—he had his head down, I did not see his face—I saw his side-face, but I did not see whether he had a moustache—when I heard of the robbery the next day, I said I had seen three men—a constable came for me to go and see the men, and when I came back I told my roaster that I thought I knew one of them—he said I had better go back and say so, but I did not—I told the policeman what sort of men they were; and that I fancied they were the men, but I was not sure—I told Mr. Edmunds that—on 6th October I went before the Magistrate, and was examined as a witness on the 7th and 14th October.

MR. BEST. Q. Have you any doubt about them now? A. I am sure they are the men.

RICHARD EDMONDS (Police-inspector, L). About half-past 8 on the evening of 13th September, I, in company with some other officers, went to Mangon's house; I found Mangon, his wife, Fraer, and Horner, in a room down stairs, all together—I said, "I suppose you know what I am come for?" they said, "No"—I said, "I am come for some silk"—I posted an officer at the front door, and another at the back, and I desired Mrs. Mangon to come up-stairs while I searched; I found this large box, with seven whole pieces of silk plush, black, and one remnant of drab—on my referring to the box being there, Mrs. Mangon exclaimed, "Oh, my God, who brought that there?" or "who put that there?"—that was in Mangon's bedroom; it is the only bedroom in the place—I then came down stairs, and said, "I should take them all into custody for stealing about 1,000 yards of silks and velvets"—Rooney was there then—we followed her into the house—the house belongs to Mangon—I have the rent book here—I have been informed that Horner is servant to the Mangons.

Cross-examined by MR. PATER. Q. Who was present when you entered the house? A. Mr. and Mrs. Mangon, Fraer, and Horner, and I followed Rooney in—the two men were smoking—I have seen Mrs. Mangon's marriage certificate—I have not the least doubt that they are married.

Cross-examined by MR. WILLIAMS. Q. YOU know that Rooney does not live in that house, do you not? A. No—I was present in the afternoon when she said, "I had a piece of plush given me by Horner."

MR. PATER. Q. Did Horner make a statement as to how the plush came to the house? A. She did—I remember her saying it was she who received the plush—I told her everything she said would be taken down—it was taken down at the police-court—I never heard her say, except at the police-court, that she had received the plush from a man, who had given her a shilling to take care of it, and that when she received it her master and mistress were not at home.

GEORGE PIKE (Policeman, L 95). I accompanied the last witness to Mangon's house on 13th September—I took Rooney with me into the house—I had her in custody for offering a piece of this silk plush for sale—I took her at 2 o'clock in the afternoon at 68, East-street, Lambeth-walk—I had been watching the house two days—I saw her go into a hat shop, kept by a man named Smith, about half-past I—she said something to Smith, came out again, and I followed her to 13, Hunt-street, Vauxhall-walk—she came back again to Smith's, and asked him if he was ready for the plush—I came by the side of her, told her I was a police-constable, and asked her what she had got under her shawl—I was in plain clothes—she opened her shawl, and I took these seven yards and a-half of plush from underneath—I then took

her to Gower-street station—I went to her father's house in Bird-in-Hand-court, and there found this small piece of plush in a box belonging to her.

Cross-examined by MR. WILLIAMS. Q. Did she not tell you that a girl had given it to her to sell? A. She did, and she said she had sold a piece to Mr. Smith the day before, and that he had pledged it at Mr. Barnett's, in Saville-row, and given her 3s.—I went with Mr. Edmonds to Mr. Barnett's, in Saville-row, and found that some plush had been pawned there—I had the ticket with me.

RICHARD SMITH PLANNER . In September last I lived at 68, East-street, Lambeth—Rooney came and asked me if I would buy a piece of plush—she wanted 3s. for it—I said I had no money; I took it to Mr. Barnett's, pawned it for 4&, and gave her 3s. for it.

Cross-examined by MR. WILLIAMS. Q. YOU do up old hats, I believe? A. Yes—I asked her where she got it from—she said she was a crown sewer, and she had that piece over—she went with me to Mr. Barnett's, and stopped outside while I pawned it.

HENRY DEIGHTON . I am manager to Mr. Barnett, pawnbroker, of Saville-place—on 28th September last I received the piece of plush I now produce in pawn, and lent 4s. on it—it was pawned by the last witness.

COOPER TRESS . I am a hat manufacturer, and have a warehouse in Church-passage, Blackfriars-road—I was there on 8th September—I left between 7 and 8 in the evening—there was then a large quantity of plush and silk and velvet in my strong room; on the following morning a large portion of it was missing—these are undoubtedly some of the goods I lost.

Cross-examined by MR. PATER. Q. How do you know them? A. By the mark of the manufacturer and the number—every piece is numbered consecutively—I have compared them with the invoices—they are all numbered but this one piece.

MR. BEST. Q. Having compared them with the invoices, you are able to speak positively to their being the goods you lost? A. Yes, undoubtedly.

Horner's statement before the Magistrate was here read; "On last Wednesday fortnight, I was at the top of Hunt-street and a young man came up to me and spoke to me, and got playing with the baby I had in my arms. He asked me if I lived down the street. I said, 'Yes.' He gave me a piece of plush, and said, 'That will do to make you a bonnet.' I said, 'Yes.' I went indoors. Mary Rooney came down, and I said, 'Look what I have had given to me. 'I gave it to her to go and sell it On the Friday morning, I met the man again; he had a horse and cart at the corner of the street; he asked me if any one was at home. I said, 'No one, except myself and two children;' as Mr. and Mrs. Mangon were out He asked me if he could put a box in there. I refused at first He said he would only be away an hour, and would call for it again and give me a shilling. He asked me to help him up with the box, and I did so. I did not know what was in the box. When we got upstairs, he said he would cut me a piece off if I liked. I said, 'No,' and told him not to stop. He told me to show it to no one if I cut a piece off. I tore a piece off, and hid it in the copper for fear they should see it when they came in.—I gave that piece to Rooney to sell. I did not tell her I had got a box up stairs. The police came in, and Mr. and Mrs. Mangon did not know the box was there till the police came."

Witnesses for Dennis Mangon. THOMAS SNELL. I am a cab-proprietor, at 8, Lathbury-street, Kennington-lane—Mangon has driven a night-cab for me for about nine or ten mouths—he generally went out between 9 and 10, never before 9—I am sometimes in

bed when he goes—on 8th September, he left my yard precisely at 10, when the long-day man came in—he left with a cab—I was not present when he returned—I never saw him with a moustache in my life.

Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. Have you got a license? A. Yes—I have been a cab-proprietor eleven or twelve years.

MR. PATER. Q. YOU were bail for Mrs. Mangon? A. Yes—I saw Mangon in the yard before 10—I was then with Mr. Grieg, and I blew him up, because his horse was out in the yard all night the night before.

ANDREW GRIEG . I live at 8, Lathbury-street, Kennington-lane, and am a clerk to the South Western Railway Company—I remember seeing Mangon at Snell's yard on 8th September; as near as I can say, between 9 and 10—I should say nearer 9 than 10, about 9 o'clock—I did not speak to him—he came to the kitchen window where we were, and tapped, to intimate that he wanted his horse to go out.

WILLIAM STROUD . I live at 11, Pulford-street, Pimlico—I was a butcher at Westminster for fourteen years—I saw Mangon at Snell's yard on 8th September—I first saw him about half-past 8—I remained with him till as nigh 10 as I can recollect—I left the yard with him—he was driving a cab—I left him at the Perseverance public-house on the Westminster side of Vauxhall-bridge—it was then about a quarter or twenty minutes past 10—I was examined before the Magistrate.

Cross-examined. Q. Might it have been a quarter to 10? A. No—I am not an acquaintance of his—I went over to look at some pigs—I went straight home after I left him.

MR. PATER. Q. What fixed this matter on your memory? A. The reason I recollect it was that I saw him and his wife together, and I said to his wife, "Did the governor drive you to Barnet fair yesterday?"—she said, "Not yesterday, on Tuesday," and I said, "You must have got very wet indeed"—the fair began on Monday, and ended on Wednesday—I have no doubt about "the day I saw Mangon, or the time—I got home about half-past 10.

COURT. Q. Was his wife with him at the yard? A. Yes—it was on a Thursday—he said, "If you will stop while I put the horse to, I will drive you over the bridge"—Pulford-street is on the Middlesex side of the Thames, just against Pimlico-pier—I heard that Mangon was charged with the burglary about a week or ten days afterwards, from his wife—she came over to me, and said, "Don't you recollect you were over on that Thursday night with my husband over Vauxhall-bridge?"


DENNIS MANGON and HORNER— GUILTY on. the Second Count.

They were further charged with having been before convicted. MANGON

in February, 1860, and HORNER in July, 1862; to which they


MANGON— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

HORNER— Confined Eighteen Months.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-1015
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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1015. HENRY SQUIRES SHRAPNELL (54) , PLEADED GUILTY to Feloniously marrying Ellen Kettle, his wife Elizabeth being alive.

Confined Twelve Months.

Before Mr. Justice Willes.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-1016
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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1016. DANIEL FIELDER (24), Feloniously cutting and wounding Michael Harraghan, with intent to do him some grievous bodily harm.

MESSRS. WOOD and CUNNINGHAM conducted the Prosecution, and MR. PATER the Defence.

MICHAEL HARRAGHAN . I am a hatter, of 10, Union-place, Southwark—

on Saturday night, 1st October, I went with my brother into the King William the Fourth tavern, at about 10 minutes to 12 o'clock—there was a concert going on, and the prisoner struck my brother on the hat—I told him not to do that again—I knew him by sight—there was no singing going on at the time—I and my brother had not done anything to him—there had been no quarrel between them—I told the prisoner not to do that again—he told me he would put a knife into me, and came up, threatening—he closed with me, and I struck him—I did not see a knife in his hand, nor had I one—I did not take one out of my pocket—I went down the stairs, not knowing he was following me, and when I got to the bottom I felt myself struck on the shoulder—I turned round and saw the prisoner behind me—I took him by the throat, took the knife from him, and threw him on the table—I afterwards found I was wounded—I then lost my senses, and when I came to myself I was in Guy's Hospital, with pains in my hip and ear—this wound on my hip was done then, and this hole through my cheek—I found part of the flesh in my mouth—I am still in the hospital.

Cross-examined, Q. Were you the worse for liquor? A. Rather, but not much—I had spoken to the prisoner once or twice at that house, but not familiarly—I bore him no animosity, nor had he reason to bear me any—there was a scuffle upstairs between us, and other persons separated us—I did not use a knife against him—I do not know that his wounds were dressed by the same surgeon who dressed mine, or by any surgeon.

ISAAC RICKETTS . I am a carpenter, of 3, Francis-place, Southwark—I was at the William the Fourth tavern, about twenty minutes to 12 o'clock, and saw the prosecutor and the prisoner at the bottom of the stairs—the prosecutor was holding the prisoner on a table, on his back, and the prisoner had a knife in his hand—the prisoner said, "Mind, I have got the chiv"—the prosecutor said, "Is that what you mean?" the prisoner said, "Yes" the prosecutor said, "Well, wait till I get mine out"—I thought they were joking, and was about to torn away, when the prosecutor left hold of the prisoner, who jumped up and stabbed him three or four times with the knife—the blood spirted out, and I got away—the prosecutor had not got his knife out—he had no knife, and, if he had, he would not have had time to draw it before the prisoner stabbed him—I did not see what took place on the stairs.

Cross-examined. Q. Did not he say, "Wait till I get mine out?" A. Yes, but he did not pull one out—they might both have had a little liquor, but I do not think the prosecutor was much the worse for it—I have seen them before, but not to have any conversation with them—I did not see the prisoner bleeding from his head—I have heard since that he was—I never knew that he was wounded by the prosecutor—I walked by the side of the prosecutor when he was carried to the doctor's—I am not a friend of of his, I never spoke to him before.

MR. WOOD. Should you know the knife again? A. I could almost swear to the blade—it was just such a blade as this, but the handle I never saw.

JOSEPH JACKSON (Policeman, M 276). I took the prisoner on the 7th, at 7, Hemdon-court, Warwick-street, Blackfriars-road—I found this knife at 3 o'clock on the morning of the 2d at the bottom of the staircase at the William the Fourth beer-shop, Blackfriars-road—I think this is blood on it—on the way to the station the prisoner referred to the prosecutor, and said, "It is all through him."

Cross-examined. Did you find it open, with the blood on it? A. No, closed, as it is now.

MICHAEL HARRAGHAN (re-examined). This is my knife—I do not know how the blood came on it, but when I looked at my clothes, so as to get them cleaned, and washed off the blood, I found the pocket of my trousers was torn down.

SIDNEY TURNER . I am house-surgeon at Guy's hospital—on Sunday morning, 2d October, the prosecutor was brought in bleeding very much from several wounds in the head and neck—half of his lip was cut completely off—I operated upon it, and tied several large arteries in his face—he had seven wounds altogether, but two of them were caused by the same stroke—they might be produced by such a knife as this—they had much the same diameter as the blade—they were very dangerous.

The Prisoner's statement before the Magistrate: "He cut me, and I cut him—I did it in self-defence."

MR. PATER called

MARGARET HENNESSEY . I live at 8, Herbert's-buildings, Waterloo-road, New-cut—my husband is a compositor—I was at this beer-house from beginning to end—the prosecutor and prisoner were both the worse for liquor—the prosecutor treated me to a pot of ale half an hour before—the prisoner was sitting on a young man's knee, and while Harraghan was talking to me, his brother's hat was knocked off—the prisoner did not knock it off—he said it was the prisoner, and said, "If you knock my hat off again, you will have to take the consequence"—John Harraghan then struck the prisoner twice, and Michael three times—I said to Michael, "Go down stairs, you do not want any quarrelling"—I saw the prosecutor strike the prisoner on the head with the knife—I knocked it out of his hand, and got a stab in my hand by doing so—that was at the foot of the stairs—Michael Harraghan said, "If that is what he means, I shall chiv him"—it was with the blade he struck him on the left side of the head—that was before the prisoner used a knife against him, and directly he got to the bottom of the stairs—this is the knife the prosecutor had in his hand—it had a white handle—I remained till the prosecutor was carried away—I took 14d. out of his pocket, and gave it to the cabman—I saw that the prisoner was wounded on the finger and on the head—he was fainting, and was carried to his sister-in-law in Webber-street.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know if the knife produced belongs to the prisoner? A. I saw it in a man's hand up-stairs, and the prosecutor's brother borrowed it—I saw two knives—I did not tell the policeman so—he asked me, and I said I saw none, because I did not want my name to be brought into it; but I saw two knives, one on the prosecutor, the other on the prisoner,—I was present from the commencement to the end of it—there was no table at the bottom of the stairs—I saw them struggling with each other—Harraghan took out the knife first, and said, "If that is what you mean, I shall chiv" that was referring to knocking his brother's hat off—he was not referring to the knife held by the prisoner—I had not seen a knife then.

COURT. Q. You said just now that you wrenched the knife out of the, prosecutor's hand? A. I knocked it out—that was between 10 and 11—I did not see the prisoner strike him on the mouth, or strike him with the knife—at the time I wrenched the knife out of Harraghan's hand, they were both wounded and bleeding—I beg to say that my name is Martha Jones, but I did not wish my name to be brought into this.

COURT. Q. Did you tell the policeman that there was no knife? A. Yes, that was to prevent my being brought into it.

GUILTY** of unlawfully wounding. Confined Twelve Months.

Before Mr. Baron Martin.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-1017
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown

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1017. DANIEL DWYER (19), PATRICK RAY (21) and MARY ANN SLATTERY (24) , Robbery with violence, on Henry Stephen Fishpool, and I stealing a watch, his property.

MR. WOOD conducted the Prosecution and Mr. RIBTON defended Dwyer and Ray.

HENRY STEPHEN FIBHPOOL I am a carpenter, and lodge at Westhillpark, Wandsworth—on Saturday night, 20th August, after 11 o'clock, I left Wandsworth, and was going to Vauxhall-station—I met a friend, and stopped in his company till between 12 and 1—he told me I could have a bed next door to him; I went there, but they could not take me in—I went as far as Vauxhall-station, and saw two men, and asked if they could tell me where to get a bed—one of them said he could tell me where I could get a bed, and he took me to the female prisoner's—she was in the street with a shawl on, but no bonnet—I am sure she is the woman—she asked the man if he should like anything to drink; he said he should—she said she had nothing in the house herself, but she could tell him where he could have some, and she would go with him as it was not far—we all went to a house where there were seven or eight persons drinking and smoking—this was about 3 o'clock—I stayed there half an hour, and left with the female prisoner—I did not notice other persons go out—the man that went in with me left before me; he was neither of the prisoners—when I had got about twenty or thirty yards from the house, I saw the two male prisoners standing in two separate doorways; Dwyer was nearest the house I had left—the female prisoner crossed over to the opposite side of the street, and asked me what the time was—I deliberately pulled out my watch to tell her the time, when she snatched it from me, and broke it from the guard—I seized hold of her and threw her down to the ground—the two men then came up; Ray was first—he struck me a violent blow on the nose, and broke my nose—I am sure he is the man—in the first instance I identified a man named White to be the man, owing to his being so much like him—when Ray struck me on the nose, Dwyer was trying to get the watch from the girl, but I wrenched it out of her hands—the two male prisoners then ran off—I expected that the other men were coming out of the house, and I kicked the female, in the heat of the moment, and ran for assistance—she began to cry—I ran after Dwyer—I met two constables; I described the prisoners to them—I have no doubt now that Ray is the man—White was very like him—they were dressed exactly alike, but Ray had a very slight moustache, apparently about a week old—I identified Dwyer at the station on the Tuesday—he was not amongst other persons; there were only constables there in their uniform—I clearly recognised him, and am sure he is the man—I don't know what became of the woman; I left her lying on the ground.

Cross-examined. Q. I suppose you had been drinking? A. No—I was quite sober—I had drank nothing—I saw Dwyer and White in the dock before the Magistrate—at that time I swore positively that White was the man; I never said I was certain, not positively—I did not say on the second examination, "Notwithstanding all this, I think White is the man (The witness's deposition being read contained that sentence)—there were several persons drinking in the house where I went with the female prisoner—I mean to say that I did not drink anything—I had never seen either of the prisoners before, not to know them—the first place that I saw Dwyer at afterwards was the station-house.

JOHN LANGRIDGE (Policeman, 10 L) On Sunday morning, 21st August, a little after half-past 3, I saw Dwyer run out of Hooper-street into the

Westminster-road—he turned to the right and ran down Francis-street—I have known him for many years, from a boy, and his family—I am sure it was him—it was quite daylight—a short time afterwards the prosecutor ran out the same way and turned up Westminster-road, towards Oakley-street—I stood on the opposite side of the road—he gave no alarm till he got to the corner of Oakley-street—when he hallooed "Police!" I crossed the road and saw the female prisoner turn out of Hooper-street, and turn towards the Obelisk—I knew her by sight—I spoke to her, and asked what she was crying about—she was crying—she made no answer, but went on—I went towards Francis-street, and met the prosecutor coming back from Oakley-street in company of a constable of the A. division, who is not here—the prosecutor told me what bad taken place—I went with him down Francis-street, and a man named White, and several others, were standing in Francis-street—we passed by White, and went to the end of Francis-street, and came back again, and the prosecutor then gave White into custody for assaulting him—I took White into custody—he is here.

Cross-examined. Q. You saw a great number of persons there along with White, did you not? A. Yes, in Francis street; six or seven women and men—I was on the opposite side of the road to Dwyer when I saw him—the prosecutor has since shown me the house he was in that night; it is a very low sort of house—they evade Sir George Grey's Act of Parliament, and drink within the prohibited hours—White was taken to the station house, and before the Magistrate.

MR. WOOD. Q. What were White and the others doing when you saw them in Francis-street? A. Standing quietly talking together—I could see that they did not run from Hooper-street—only three persons came out of Hooper-street: they were, the prosecutor, Dwyer, and Slattery—there are three or four ways of coming from Hooper-street.

RICHARD HART (Policeman, L). I took Dwyer into custody at the Tower public-house, Westminster-road, on the evening of 23d August—I said to him, "Dave, I want you"—he said, "Yes, I know what for, for the job on Saturday night"—I said, "No, for the job on Sunday morning; you must go with me to the station-house"—on the way he said, "I have got a summons in my pocket to appear and give evidence on behalf of White"—I asked where he got it from—he said from one of his mates—I was not aware that he was going to attend as a witness for White.

MARGARET MORGAN . I am an unfortunate girl, and live at 16, Francis-street—this happened at my uncle's house—I was there about 3 o'clock, or half-past—I saw the prosecutor and the prisoners there—I did not see them come in, I saw them all go out together—they drank a good deal of gin; I served them with it, and took the money for it—I did not notice who drank it, they drank it between them—I saw the two male prisoners there, as well as Slattery—when the prosecutor and Slattery went out, Dwyer and Ray went out with them, or followed behind—there were about eight persons there altogether, six men and me and my cousin—no one besides the prisoners left; the same two men that were there then were there when the police called afterwards to look in—I don't know where White lives; his mother lives next door to my uncle—I saw Dwyer next day, Sunday, and said to him, it was a shame for White to be taken in his place, and he up with a stone and smashed four of my mother's windows.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know Patrick

GUILTY? A. Yes, and Carroll; they were not in the room, nor near the house—I have been convicted of felony, for robbing my mother; that was about twelve months ago—I

wan convicted twice; the first time was two or three years ago—I had six mouths—the second time was two months, for an assault—I can't recollect all the times; it was all for felony except one assault; there were three felonies—I got two months for the last; that was besides the assault, it was for stealing boots; that is eight, nine, or ten months ago—that was the last—I was with two more who were concerned in it; a drunken woman came into our place and took her boots off—that was at Southwark police-court—for the second felony I was tried at the Surrey Sessions—I had six months then—I never had nine months; it was two two months and a six months—I first saw the police about this matter on the Monday morning, when one of them came to White's mother to tell her to take him some breakfast—no friend of White's came to me—I know nothing of the Whites; they are perfect strangers to me.

MR. WOOD. Q. I suppose you have told us the truth about these convictions? A. Yes, and I have told the truth about the prisoners—I never had any quarrel with the prisoners.

THOMAS PHELAN (Policeman, 170 L). I was on duty in St. George's-road on the morning of 21st August—about half-past 3, I saw Dwyer and Kay in the Westminster-road—I was going to Francis-street, where I heard a scream of "Murder!" and they accompanied me there—they were about a hundred yards from Hooper-street.

Cross-examined. Q. Did they go with you all the way to where the screams were? A. Yes.

The prisoners' statements before the Magistrate:—Dwyer says, "I have a witness to prove I was not there." Ray says, "I had nothing whatever to do with it" Slattery says, "It is false; I do not know these two men."

RICHARD JOHN WHITE . I am a painter and glazier, and artist house decorator—on the night in question I was not at the house where the prosecutor and prisoners went—I never saw the female prisoner in my life; I never was inside the house but once, three years ago—I did not take any part in this robbery.

Slattery's Defence. I never saw either of these men in my life, and do not know them; I live in the Borough.

Witnesses for the Defence.

PATRICK CARROLL . I did not commit this robbery—I know this house—I was there that night—I saw the prosecutor and the female prisoner with him—I was in the same room—they stopped there about half an hour—they had a quartern of gin and a pot of beer between them—the prosecutor drank a glass of gin—there were eight persons there altogether, four men besides the prosecutor—there was one that was lying down in bed asleep—I did not see Dwyer or Ray there that night—I am quite sure of that—they could not have come in without my knowledge—I know them by sight, they live down the street.

Cross-examined. Q. Are they not intimate friends of yours? A. No; I know nothing bad of them—I left the house about 3 o'clock—Margaret Morgan was there, the prosecutor, and the young woman that came in with him; Patrick Quilty, an old traveller, and the man and woman belonging to the place, they were in bed; that makes eight altogether—Kenney was the man in bed, he bad his clothes on—there was no one smoking—I went from there to a wake in the same street.

MR. RIBTON. Q. Whose wake was it? A. Charley Hayes—there were a few people there, not many—there was no drinking going on—Quilty was there.

PATRICK QUILTY . I did not commit this rubbery—I was in the room and saw the prosecutor and the female come in—they stayed there about a quarter of an hour—they had some gin and beer—I saw them go out—I do not see the two male prisoners there; I can swear they were not there—they could not have been there without my seeing them—I was there all the time—the man and woman were there, and before and afterwards also.


DWYER and SLATTERY— GUILTY Confined Twelve Months each.

Before Mr. Recorder.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-1018
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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1018. JOHN BOOKER (23) , PLEADED GUILTY to a Burglary in the a dwelling-house of John Robert Burton. He was also charged with having been before convicted of felony in 1859; to this he

PLEADED NOT GUILTY. The conviction was proved, and the Jury found him to be the person.**— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-1019
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty

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1019. WILLIAM MOTT (28), PLEADED GUILTY to Forging and uttering an order for 3l. 12s. Also to embezzling various sums of Henry Jenner, his master.— Confined Nine Months.

24th October 1864
Reference Numbert18641024-1020
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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1020. RICHARD JOHNSON (18) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of James Dunn, and stealing two sheets, and other goods, his property.

MR. WILL conducted the Prosecution.

CATHERINE DUNN . I am the daughter of James Dunn, of 6, Eltham-street, Kent-street, Borough—my father went from home on the 23d June last—on that night my mother left the house, leaving me there—I locked the door, and bolted it at the top when she went out—I then went to bed and went to sleep—about half-past 11, or between that and 12, I heard the prisoner hallooing out, "Open this door, open this door," and he burst in the door, came in, and said to me, "Go and get me twopenn'orth of soup," and he made me put on my frock and go out—I lighted a candle, and he looked on the sideboard, and said, "What are these things?"—I said, "My aunt's sheets"—he said, "All right"—when I came back he was gone, and I missed the sheets—I did not miss anything more till next morning.

Prisoner. I went home that night the same as I did any other night, and she got up and let me in.

Witness. He did not live in the house; I had seen him there twice before—he came and asked for a lodging, saying his parents had turned him out from home, and my mother said he could have a night's lodging, and that was all—that was two days before my father got three months.

MARY ANN DUNN . I am the wife of James Dunn—on the night he left home I had occasion to go to his father's to tell them that he was locked up—I went round about half-past 9—I locked the door, and put the key in my pocket, and told the child to bolt the door—when I returned I was to wake her and she would undo the bolt—I returned about a quarter to 12, and found her crying—she told me something, and I missed two sheets that night, and next morning a pair of black trousers, two brushes, two towels, a neck-tie, and a bird and bird-cage—I had left those things safe in the house when I went out—I had known the prisoner two days before this; he had been sleeping there the night before, he was not to come on this night—I would not allow him to come—I had told him so.

WILLIAM CUMMING (Policeman, 196 M). On 30th September, in consequence of information I went to the prisoner's lodging in Nelson-street,

Long-lane, Bermondsey—I told him the charge—he said he only did it for a drop of lush—I asked what he did with the bird and cage—he said he sold it in Kent-street for 4d.—none of the articles have been recovered.

Prisoner's Defence. I used to live at home with my mother and lather. This young chap induced me to come away and live with him, and go partners in wood-chopping. His wife is a prostitute, and used to go out of a night to keep him. I was with them three weeks; we had a row, and I left My father took me back again, and I heard no more of them till the policeman came. I had nothing to do with the things. He told my father if he gave him 3s. for the things he would be satisfied, and I told him not to give it.

WILLIAM CUMMING (re-examined). I had no instructions to take the prisoner until 27th September—nothing was done till the prosecutor came out of prison, after serving his three months.



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