Old Bailey Proceedings.
26th October 1863
Reference Number: t18631026

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Old Bailey Proceedings front matter.
26th October 1863
Reference Numberf18631026

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Sessions Paper.








Short-hand Writers to the Court.








Law Publishers in the Queen's Most, Excellent Majesty,1862-63.



On the Queen's Commission of



The City of London,





Held on Monday, October 26th, 1863, and following days.

BEFORE THE RIGHT HON. WILLIAM ANDERSON ROSE, M.P LORD MAYOR of the City of London; Sir SAMUEL MARTIN , Knt., one of the Barons of Her Majesty's Court of Excheqner; Sir JAMES SHAW WILLES, Knt., one of the Justices of Her Majesty's Court of Common Pleas; THOMAS SIDNEY, Esq.; Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN, Knt.; ROBERT BESLEY, Esq,; SILLS JOHN GIBBONS, Esq.; and ANDREW LUSK, Esq.; Aldermen of the City of London; THOMAS CHAMBERS , Esq. Q.C., Common Serjeant of the said City; and ROBERT MALCOLM KERR,. Esq., Judge of the Sheriffs' Court; Her Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer, and General Gaol Delivery of Newgate, holden for the said City, and Judges of the Central Criminal Court.









A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoner's age.


OLD COURT.—Monday, October 26 th, 1863.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1165
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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1165. WILLIAM FARNHAM (33), was indicted for embezzlement.

MR. METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES WOODMAN . I live at 34, Queen's-road, Dalston, and am a clerk to Vyse and Sons, warehousemen, of Wood-street—on 26th June their firm was indebted to Mr. Hannam, a wholesale milliner, of Bartholomew-close, 4l. 15s. which sum I paid to the prisoner that day—this is his receipt, signed in my presence (produced).

Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. When were the goods supplied? A. Perhaps a week or a fortnight before—it was not a month or two—he was entitled to his money every week, and always came for it.

RICHARD HANNAM . I am a wholesale milliner, of 64, Bartholomew-close—the prisoner has been in my employ from January—I took the business from him under a bill of sale, having advanced him money, and have carried it on from that time to this—I continued on, the prisoner in my service—I paid him 2l. a week regularly—his duty was the general management of the concern—it was part of his duty to collect orders and get in money, which he was to pay over to me immediately he received it—on 26th June I gave him instructions to go to Messrs. Vyse's and to Messrs. Morrison's to receive money—he accounted to me on that day for the money he received from Morrison, and I said "Where is Messrs. Vyse's money?"—he said, "The buyer was very busy taking down stock, and had not time to pass the account, and will leave it till next week"—he has never accounted to me for that sum of 4l. 15s. and on 10th July I discovered that it had been paid by Messrs. Vyse—I did not say anything to the prisoner about it, as I had discharged him before that, but not for that amount.

Cross-examined. Q. When did you first become acquainted with the prisoner? A. I saw him first about twelve months ago, at 87, Queen-street—he was in business for himself at that place—the change in the management took place on 19th January—the first letter that passed about negotiating for the business was in August, 1862—some of the letters he wrote to me about it, are in my attorney's hands—we finally arrived at an agreement on 19th January, when I took the business under the bill, of sale, as the prisoner was unable to return me the money I had advanced him—I first had a bill of sale for 100l.—that was to secure to me the goods, chattels,

and fixtures at 87, Queen-street, Cheapside, for twelve months—if that was repaid at the end of twelve months the goods and fixtures were to be released—that is dated 27th December, 1862—we entered into another one on 9th January, 1863—that was for 120l.—I advanced 20l. more, and the former was merged in that—that bill gave me the right, at twelve hours' notice of taking the goods if the 120l. was not paid; if it was paid the right would cease—on 27th December it was agreed between me and the prisoner that he should pay me 35s. a week, and I should act as his servant—I had supposed that he was in difficulties, and asked him the question, and he said he was—the second bill was given because I was not satisfied with the security of the first—a change took place in that agreement on 19th January—I gave the prisoner a written notice on 17th January that I required the repayment of the 120l. within twelve hours—I knew nothing about judgments against the prisoner—I know that he was in Whitecross street; I visited him there—he did not give me any money there—I never sold any pony for him, and never saw one—his wife put about 7l. into my hands—when I first went to the premises in Cheapside, Farnham's name was on the doorposts, and also on a glass inside—that name did not continue up until the prisoner was arrested—my name was put on the office door on 20th January—his plates were not removed from the door, they were covered over with my plates about a week afterwards—I gave instructions to the prisoner to order the plates to be written—I first made a claim to the goods under the bill of sale, on 19th January—I entered into possession then—a claim was afterwards made by a sheriffs officer under an execution against the prisoner; that was some time in February, I think—I had to try an interpleader issue in the Exchequer—I kept the goods—the hands who made up the goods were engaged by the prisoner by my instructions—he knew the business, I did not—I ordered some of the goods and the prisoner others—I never told any person that the prisoner was my partner.

MR. METCALFE. Q. What became of the interpleader issue? Did you establish your claim to the goods? A. Yes; the prisoner was examined as a witness on my behalf, and I heard him state that he was in my service as an assistant, at a salary of 2l. a week, which was correct—it was not upon that that I established my claim to the goods; it was partly, of course—if he had said there was a partnership I should have lost my goods—the prisoner had no right to order goods on his own account—he had general instructions from me to buy what was necessary for the business—I was for many years in the grocery business—I had a little money to invest at the time, and unfortunately I invested it in this business—the first distinct account I have of paying the prisoner 2l. on Saturday, was on 14th March; I paid him every Saturday—previous to that time I had advanced him sums 1l., 10s., or 30s. at a time—from 14th March till he ceased to be in my service, the wages were paid regularly—I have regular entries of 2l. every Saturday—the bill produced is made out in my name—the prisoner did not carry bill heads about with him—this was made out at the warehouse—it is part of Messrs. Vyse's system to make out their own accounts—it is made out in my name, only without any "Co." and is receipted by the prisoner—that was the ordinary practice.

MR. BEST. Q. I believe you know that he went through the Bankruptcy Court? A. He has not gone through the Court yet.

GEORGE ADAMS WALKER . I am a clerk in the court of Mr. Commissioner Holroyd—I produce the proceedings in the prisoner's bankruptcy—the petition

is dated 2d July last—it is his own petition, made in forma pauperis—he describes himself as formerly a wholesale milliner, and now assistant to a wholesale milliner, and he so describes himself in his examination.

MR. BEST called the following witnesses for the Defence.

CHARLES WILLIAM BLYTHE . I am inspector of weights and measures at Guildhall—I first knew the prisoner in April or May last—he applied to me to take a house at Stratford—he gave me a card, which I have destroyed, referring to Dr. Bruce and Mr. Hannam, of Bartholomew-close—I went there, saw the prisoner, and he introduced me to Mr. Hannam as the person he was about to take a house of—I said to the prisoner, in Hannam's presence, "The reference to Dr. Bruce is satisfactory, and so is what I see here, and I let the house to you, and you only, for your family"—he said to Mr. Hannam, "The fact is, I have had these girls sleeping at the house, but I shall discontinue that and keep the house to myself," and Mr. Hannam said, "Very well"—I saw Mr. Hannam afterwards and received some rent from him for the prisoner's house—he at the same time told me to look to him for the rent, that he wished to assist Farnham, and likewise to keep a house and home over Mrs. Farnham and the family's heads—that was about 27th or 28th June.

JOSEPH MUDGE . I am a tailor, residing at Monkwell-street—in February of this year I applied at 87, Queen-street, Cheapside, for a situation—I saw Mr. Farnham and Mr. Hannam—Farnham said to me in Hannam's presence, that he would look at my references, and if he was satisfied I was to come on the following morning—I went there and continued in the employ about four or five months—I always thought the prisoner was a partner with Mr. Hannam—I supposed so by the way the business was carried on—sometimes Mr. Hannam kept the key of the premises, and sometimes Mr. Farnham—I have often known Mr. Hannam come late—to the premises when he had the key—I cannot say that I have heard the prisoner say anything to him upon those occasions—during the time I was there persons called to inquire for the prisoner—he was sometimes in and sometimes not—they have frequently made inquiries of Hannam, and he had said that Mr. Farnham was not there—I remember an officer calling there in February, he saw Mr. Hannam and inquired for the prisoner, and Hannam said he was not there—he just then came to the door—they removed from Queen-street, Cheapside, to Bartholomew-close—Hannam and Farnham carried on business there in the wholesale millinery business—I left a week after they were in Bartholomew-close—Farnham acted there as he had done before—I went from Bartholomew-close to Wells-street—Farnham had the business there—Hannam used to come hack wards and forwards occasionally—the prisoner took some goods from Bartholomew-close to Wells-street when he moved—that was a week after I left Bartholomew-close—I left there before June—the goods were cloths and lengths of cloths, and several other things—there were two or three sewing-machines—I should say one would be worth about 10l. another about 4l. and another about 5l.—there was one piece of cloth of forty yards, another of twenty, and another, a shepherd's plaid, of about thirty or forty yards.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. This was a tailor's business, in Wells-street, was it not? A. Yes; not a milliner's—the things he took away from Bartholomew-close would be no use to a milliner, but they would to a tailor—Mr. Hannam paid me my wages in Cheapside, but Mr. Farnham in Wells-street—I kept a little book and Mr. Hannam always paid me.

MR. BEST. Q. Were these very sewing-machines used in the trade in

Bartholomew-close and in Queen-street? A. Yes, sometimes—the tailor's business was carried on as well as the milliner's in Queen-street, and for a week in Bartholomew-close, and then the tailoring was given up.

JOHN WILLIAM STARMER (a prisoner). I have known the prisoner since the year 1860—he was a wholesale milliner in Old-street at that time—I travelled for him—I first know Hannam at the end of 1862, November or December—I have seen the prosecutor and the prisoner together in Queen-street—I was in business at Uxbridge, and I did business with Mr. Farnham prior to his having any connexion with Mr. Hannam—I bought goods of him occasionally—at the time I saw Hannam, in 1862, I understood that he was clerk to Mr. Farnham; so Farnham represented—I saw them several times after that when I came to London on business—when I came to London in the early part of 1802, to buy some goods, I saw the name of "R. Hannam" on the door, and I immediately asked Mr. Farnham about it—I don't think Hannam was there at the time we had some conversation about that—I called there several times and saw them in the shop—Farnham took the leading part in the business, and he attended to the orders, goods, and so on—on one occasion Farnham came into the back room when Hannam and I were there smoking—Farnham said, "Well, gentlemen, this is not business, smoking"—I have seen Farnham bring in sums of money and pay them over to Mr. Hannam several times—I recollect him bringing in Morrison's account, and I heard him also say that he had been to Vyse's—I heard nothing pass about Vyse's account, more than that he had been there, and I saw money on the desk, and a book—I don't know what money it was.

Cross-examined. Q. When was it you saw the name of "R. Hannam" up? A. I think in the early part of January, 1803—before that Farnham's name had been at the side of the door—I was in Mr. Hannam's employment—I think I went there in March, and remained till some time in July—Mr. Hannam paid the wages while I was in his employment, and I have occasionally seen. Farnham pay moneys for goods and different things, not frequently—I have seen him pay money out of his own pocket without going to Mr. Hannam—he has gone to Mr. Hannam as well.

HENRY EVE . In February I received an order to print a few bills for the prisoner—I think it was in writing—it is in all probability on the file in our office now—this paper (produced) is in my writing, it alludes to the posters for which I received this order from the prisoner—it is debited to Mr. Farnham for twenty-five posters, and dated 25th January.

GEORGE BYNG . I am a draper, at Hammersmith—I have known the prisoner about two or three years—during the last two years I have been doing business within him—the business was done in the name of William Farnham, up to February, when it was changed to Hannam and Co.—I seldom saw Farnham; my wife dealt with him—Mr. Starmer has been this year, not Farnham, to my knowledge—his dealings were always straightforward and respectable, as far as I know—I never heard anything against his character for honesty.

GEORGE BONNER . I am manager to the Illustrated Weekly News—I have a copy of an order for the insertion of an advertisement, the order was signed by Farnham, and dated 20th January—thinking it was a bad debt it has been cancelled among others, and the order has been destroyed—it was on behalf of Farnham alone.

JURY to RICHARD HANNAM, Q. Do you know anything of those goods that went to Wells-street? A. Certainly I do; they were lent by me to the

prisoner, in order that he might carry on the business of a tailor—the prisoner is still indebted to me for those and many other things.

GUILTY .—Recommended to mercy by the Jury.—There was another indictment against the prisoner.

Confined Nine Months.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1166
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

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1166. WILLIAM STARMER (26) , was charged on two indictments with embezzling sums received on account of Richard Hannam, his master.

MR. METCALFE, for the prosecution, offered no evidence.— NOT GUILTY .

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1167
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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1167. ELLEN DOBBIN (26) , Stealing a bill of exchange, a purse, and 13l. of Richard Tipple Howitt, from his person.

MR. BEST conducted the Prosecution.

RICHARD TIPPLE HOWITT . I am a spring maker, of 2, Denmark-place, Soho—on the night of 16th October, about twenty-five minutes past 12, I was going home, up the east side of Aldgate—a female accosted me—shortly afterwards the prisoner came across the road, and said, "I think I know you"—I said, "I don't think you do"—she asked where I lived—I said, "At the West, where do you live?"—"Close to Victoria Park"—" Whereabouts?"—"Do you know the Consumption Hospital?"—"Quite well"—"I live at the back of it"—I asked what number—she asked me to meet her on Sunday—I said I was engaged—she then said, "Let us walk on, don't stand here, this will be your nearest way"—we turned down Jewry-street into Montefiore-court—she said, "There is a passage through here, this is your nearest way,"—I did not like the look of her, and I took my purse out of my trousers pocket and put it into my breast coat-pocket—I am positive it got into my breast pocket—it contained thirteen sovereigns, an acceptance for 10l. several I O U's, six receipt stamps, and eleven postage stamps—the prisoner wanted me to take liberties with her, and I would not—she was close to me—in an instant she ran away—I immediately felt my pocket, and my purse was gone—I went out of the court as quickly as I could and saw a policeman, and complained to him—there was a man in the court while I was talking to the prisoner, and when she ran away she passed that man—the policeman and I went into Aldgate, at the corner of George-street—the policeman pointed out two females walking—the prisoner was one of them, and I said, "That is the person"—this (produced) is my purse—it is torn all to pieces—it was whole when I lost it—I saw it next day in the hands of the police—part of the papers are in it now.

Cross-examined by E. T. SMITH. Q. Where had you been on this night? A. I had been spending the evening with a friend at Old Ford—I went there at a quarter to 10, and left at ten minutes to 12—I had only had one glass of stout there—that is about a mile and a half from where I met the prisoner—I did not go into any public-house—the first woman that accosted me asked me to treat her to a glass of ale, but I declined—I did not stop to speak to her—she walked by my side at a respectable distance—she left me at the corner of the Minories—I did not attempt to take any liberties with the prisoner—I went into the passage with her because she said it was my nearest way home, but it was no thoroughfare—I was sober.

WILLIAM DUDLEY (City-policeman, 547). On the night of 16th October, I was on duty in Jewry-street, Aldgate—the prosecutor came up to me out of Montefiore-court—in consequence of what he said to me we went into the Minories—I pointed out two women to him, and he said the one next the shutters was the one that had robbed him—it was the prisoner—I took her into custody; two shillings was found on her.

Cross-examined. Q. Was the prosecutor sober? A. Perfectly.

WILLIAM THURLE (City-policeman, 603). About half-past 12, on the night of 16th October, I was on duty in George-street, Minories, and saw the prisoner, in company with another woman, running from Jewry-street—when they saw me they stopped running—I saw them apprehended by Dudley.

JAMES THREDGOLD (City-policeman, 559). About 2 o'clock, on the morning of 16th October, I was in Aldgate opposite Church-row, and found this purse and the papers sprinkled about the pavement—I had seen the prisoner apprehended opposite Church-row.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1168
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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1168. JOHN BUKKE (52) , Unlawfully obtaining, by false pretences, 2s. with intent to defraud. MR. SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.

RICHARD LEWIS . I am clerk to Messrs. Quilter, Ball, and Co., accountants, of Moorgate-street—on 10th October, about half-past 12, the prisoner came to the office and said he had been clearing out the private drains—I asked him what private drain, and he said it was the drain leading from the back of our premises into the main sewer—he said he had been employed by the Commissioners of Sewers—I told him we paid sewers' rates, and he said this was extra for cleaning the private drain—he asked for 2s.—he named the amount himself—I paid him 2s. on the faith of the statement he had made to me.

Prisoner. I never mentioned the Commissioners of Sewers—I had nothing to do with them—I was to have 2s. for cleaning out the closet-pan. Witness. Nothing was said about that; he never went down stairs—he did mention the Commissioners of Sewers.

LEWIS CHRISTOPHER HASLETT . I live at 1, Buckland-street, Hoxton, and am inspector of sewers, employed by the Commissioners of Sewers of the Corporation—the prisoner is not nor was he ever in their employ—I did not employ him, or authorize him to do anything to the sewers in Moorgate-street, or any drains leading from this house, nor could he get to this particular drain.

COURT. Q. Would the cleaning of such a drain as this be the duty of the Commissioners of Sewers to attend to? A. No; the duty of the parties occupying—he could not have got to the drain without opening the ground, and the ground was not opened—I was there the same day.

MCCLOUD (City-policeman, 141). On Saturday, 10th October, about half-past 12 in the day, I was in Moorgate-street, and saw the prisoner coming from Messrs. Quilter's—in consequence of some information I had received, and some inquiries which I had made, I went after him, and took him back to Messrs. Quilter's—I said to Mr. Lewis in the prisoner's presence, "Is this the man you gave the two shillings to?"—he said, "Yes; that is the man"—he also said that he had demanded 2s. representing that he was employed by the Commissioners of Sewers—the prisoner made no reply to that, but became very violent, and tried to kick and strike me—with the assistance of Mr. Lewis I held him till an officer came to my assistance—I found 2s. 4 1/2 d. on him.

Prisoner's Defence. He kicked me on the shoulder going round Princes-street because I wanted to go back to the office; I was to clean the pan, and I did not get the 2s. wrongly, or I should not have wanted to go back; I cleaned the pan on the Saturday, and he told me to call on the Monday as he was busy, and could not attend to me; I called on the Monday, and I was taken into custody directly I got there.

GUILTY .**— Confined Eighteen months.

The following prisoners PLEADED GUILTY:—

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1169
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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1169. GEORGE BASKERVILLE (29) , to forging and uttering an acceptance of a bill of exchange for the payment of 276l. 13s. with intent to defraud John Bethell and others— Five Years' Penal Servitude. — [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1170
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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1170. CHARLES ALLEN (25) , to stealing 6 shirts, value 30s. the property of Mr. Benjamin Newland and others, his masters.— Confined Eighteen Months. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1171
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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1171. GEORGE WILLIAM THOMPSON (26) , to embezzling 11l. 8s. 6d. and 5l. 11s. received on account of Maurice Herschorn, his master; he received a good character, and was recommended to mercy by the prosecutor.— Confined Four Months. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1172
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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1172. WILLIAM WARREN (50) , to two indictments for forging and uttering orders for the delivery of goods, after a previous conviction.— Confined Twelve Months. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1173
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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1173. JOHN BUTLER (44) , to a burglary in the dwelling-house of Matthew Orr, and stealing a clock, value 2l.— Confined Nine Months. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1174
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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1174. WILLIAM HENRY TEMPLETON (29) , to stealing a watch and chain, value 4l. from the person of John McCrackin, after a former conviction.**— Seven Years' Penal Servitude. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1175
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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1175. ROBERT MARSHALL (21) , to forging and uttering a receipt for the payment of money, and to stealing 40l. the property of Walter Ford, his master.— Four Years' Penal Servitude. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1176
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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1176. GEORGE TAYLOR (18) , to embezzling 33l. 13s. the money of Maritz Wolfsky; recommended to mercy.— Confined Nine Months. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

NEW COURT.—Monday, October 26 th, 1863.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr Esq.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1177
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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1177. JANE JOHNSON (19) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. COOK and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES HUTCHINSON . My brother-in-law, Mr. Langford, keeps the Blue Anchor public-house, in York-street, Westminster—on 16th September, the prisoner and another woman came to the private bar—the other woman called for a pot of fourpenny ale, and paid with 4d. in copper—they drank the ale between them, and the same woman then ordered a pot of 6d. ale, and tendered me a bad shilling—I tried it, broke it in half, and told them that would not do for me, and threw the pieces over the bar—a man who was with them then gave me a good half-crown—I gave them all three in charge—when the constable came they were sitting in a seat in a corner where there was hardly room for three—the constable asked the prisoner to get up, and he found a bad shilling under her seat—he took them to the station, but they were all allowed to go away—on my return from the station I found the pieces of the broken shilling and threw them in the fire.

Prisoner. Q. Did I offer you any money? A. No; I did not see you make away with any.

GEORGE UPTON (Policeman, B 119). On 16th September, between 9 and 10 in the evening, I was sent for to the Blue Anchor, and found the prisoner and a man and woman sitting down—I requested them to get up—the other two got up, but the prisoner kept her seat—I said, "Come, get up"—she did so, and I picked up this bad shilling under her feet—I had not heard it drop—I said, "Do you know anything of this?"—she said, "No; I do not"—I took them all to the station—I have known them all as constant associates for a long time.

COURT. Q. Are they unfortunate girls? A. No; the other woman is Earned, and the prisoner has been living with her father for some considerable time, but was always about with the others.

HANNAH POTTAGE . I am a widow, and keep and umbrella shop near Westminster—on 23d November, the prisoner came for an umbrella case which came to 6d.—she gave me a half-crown—I examined it, and found it was bad, seat for a constable, and gave her in charge with the half-crown.

GEORGE HUTTLE (Policeman, B 95). I took the prisoner, and received this bad half-crown from Mrs. Pottage—the prisoner was searched at the station but nothing was found on her.

COURT. Q. Did she say where she had got the money? A. That she had received it from a gentleman the night previous, whom she had passed the night with.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin to Her Majesty's Mint—this shilling and half-crown are both bad.

Prisoner's Defence. I did not know it was bad.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1178
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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1178. GEORGE HADLOW (51), was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. COOKE and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

SELINA WATLEY Dix. My husband keeps the Prince of Orange, St. George's-in-the-East—on 23d September, the prisoner came for a glass of stout which came to 1 1/2 d.—he gave me a florin—I gave him 1s. 10 1/2 d. change, and he left—I put the florin into the till by itself, and as soon as I had a light, I examined it, and found it was bad—I threw it into the fire, and it melted—on the following Saturday, 26th, I saw the prisoner in front of the bar, and called my husband's attention to him.

JOSEPH WATLEY DIX . On 26th September, the prisoner came to the Prince of Orange, and asked for three pennyworth of brandy—he gave me a crown, and I was about to give him change, but my wife spoke to me—I put it in the detector, and found it was bad—I asked him if he had any more of them—he said, "No"—I asked him where he took it, and understood him to say, "Of a butcher"—he could not find any more money, and I took the brandy back, and sent for a policeman, but after a good deal of searching he found a fourpenny piece, and I gave him 1d. change—I gave him in charge with the crown.

THOMAS TURNER (Policeman, H 32). The prisoner was given into my custody with this crown—I found on him at the station a good half-crown, two sixpences, and a penny.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This crown is bad.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1179
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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1179. JOHN WILTON (29), was indicted for a like offence.

MR. POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE BEST WINTER . I am landlord of the Prince of Wales, De Beauvoir-terrace, Kingsland—on 28th September, at about a quarter to 8 in the evening, I served the prisoner with a glass of ale—he gave me a bad shilling—I broke it, returned the large piece to him, and kept the small one—he said that he knew where he took it, and paid me with a good shilling—I gave him 10 1/2 d. in change, and he left—I went out at another door, and saw him join another man—I told my potman to follow him—I was fetched afterwards to Mr. Good's shop, 150 yards off, and found the prisoner there—I gave the policeman the small piece of the shilling and my potman gave me the large piece next day.

THOMAS HART . I am Mr. Winter's potman—on 28th September, he pointed out the prisoner and another man to me, and I followed them—I

saw something passing between them—one turned up St. Peter's road, and I followed the prisoner to the Fox public-house—I saw him come out—he crossed to his companion, and something passed between them—the prisoner then went to Mr. Good's, the baker's—I was outside looking through the window, and heard him call for a loaf; a young woman served him—he put down a shilling—she tried it, and found it was bad, took it to Mr. Good, and I saw him try it with his teeth—I then went in, took up the shilling, said it was bad, and that the prisoner had been trying to pass one at the Prince of Wales—he said, "I have to work hard for my living"—I fetched Mr. Winter, and the prisoner was given in custody—next morning I picked up a shilling in the street, about ten yards from the Prince of Wales, with a piece out of it—I took it to my master—it was not between the Prince of Wales and the baker's shop, but towards Kingsland-gate.

ELIZABETH COX . I am shopwoman to Mr. Good, of Prospect-place—on 23d September, the prisoner came for a twopenny loaf, and gave me a shilling—I put it in the box-detector, and told him it was bad—he said that he had just taken it in change at a public-house up the road, and offered me a good one—I took the bad one to Mr. Good, who came out and spoke to the prisoner; Hart soon afterwards came in.

WILLIAM GOOD . I am a baker—on 28th September, the last witness brought me a bad shilling—I went into the shop and found the prisoner—he said, "If you do not like it, Governor, here is another," and tendered me a good one; I told him I thought he knew it was bad—he said that he did not—he took it over the way at the public-house, where he changed a half-crown, and received 2s. 4 1/2 d. out—I said, "Then why did not you pay for the loaf out of the fourpence-halfpenny?" and he said, "I have spent that"—Hart then came in, and I afterwards gave the prisoner in charge with the shilling—I had bent it and straightened it again.

WILLIAM KIGHTLEY (Policeman, N 416). The prisoner was given into my custody at Mr. Good's shop—I said, "What have you got in your hand?"—he said, "Here it is, Governor:" and gave me this bad shilling (produced)—something was said at the station about a previous uttering at the Prince of Wales—the prisoner said, "That is not the one; I threw that away"—I received this small piece of a shilling from Winter that evening, and this larger piece next day—when asked for his address he said that he had no home.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These two pieces form a shilling—these two shillings are bad, and from the same mould.

Prisoner's Defence. I took 4s. 6d. by selling apples; the gentleman told me the shilling was bad, and I gave him another.

GUILTY .*— Confined Two Years.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1180
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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1180. JOHN MAHER (20), was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. COOKE and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLOTTE CATHERINE NEULAND . My husband keeps a general shop in Lisson-grove—this day month I saw the prisoner served with some cheese—he gave my husband a shilling—he put it into the till, where there was only a sixpence, and gave the prisoner the change—I saw my husband go to the till, ten minutes afterwards, and take out a bad shilling—I went out, found the prisoner in a public-house, and told him he had passed a bad shilling—he said that he had not been out that day—I went to fetch my husband, and when I returned the prisoner had gone, and another man stood up in his place—I afterwards gave the shilling to a constable.

JAMES THOMAS LATTER . I keep the Hercules, in Lisson-grove—on Saturday night, 10th October, between 10 and 11 o'clock, the prisoner came in for a pot of porter—after he had left, my son Henry, who had served him, showed me a bad florin—I have seen the prisoner in the house several times—he came in again in five minutes, and I called him up to the counter and said, "Do you see this? Do you know what you have given here?" and showed him the bad florin—he said that he knew nothing about it—I sent for a policeman, and gave him in custody.

Prisoner. I have worked for one person for nine years. Witness. I do not know where you work, but I know that you have been very kind to your widowed mother—I have known you about nine months, coming in occasionally.

HENRY LATTER . I served the prisoner—he gave me this florin (produced)—I showed it to my mother and brother.

WILLIAM SHRUBB (Policeman, D 95). I found the prisoner in Great James-street, and told him I wanted him for passing a bad florin in Great James-street (this was half an hour afterwards)—he said, "I know nothing at all about it; I have not been there to-night."

Prisoner. I did not; I said that the florin was good enough. Witness. I took you to the station, and found this good shilling on you.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These coins are both bad.

Prisoner's Defence. I plead guilty to the shilling, but I know nothing about the florin.

MR. NEULAND (re-examined). The prisoner's mother has offered to repay me the shilling.


26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1181
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown

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1181. GEORGE GRAY (45), JOHN WATSON (45), and ELIZABETH ABBOTT (20) , Unlawfully having counterfeit coin in their possession with intent to utter it; to which


MR. COOKE conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES BRANNAN . I am employed by Her Majesty's Mint—on 15th October, in the forenoon, I went with Inspector Fife and some other officers to Commercial-street, Spitalfields, and placed myself in a position to watch the White Hart public-house—I saw the prisoners enter the house one after another (I knew Gray and Abbott before)—I followed them in with Fife, and found Gray sitting down, and the other two standing in front of him—as I entered, Watson's and Abbott's faces were towards Gray, whose back was towards me—I proceeded towards Gray, but was pushed back by Watson—Fife then laid hold of Watson, who threw these two paper parcels on to the seat, between Gray and the wall, who sat about a foot from the wall—I then saw three packets go from the woman's cloak to the same spot—Fife pushed the two away, and I pulled Gray away, and found five packets near the seat, and a calico bag containing five packets of shillings—I put my hand into Gray's trousers pocket, and asked him what he had got—he pulled out a paper parcel, and said, "You will see"—it contained twenty counterfeit crowns—he pulled another packet out of his coat pocket, and placed it on the table—I opened it, and found three small packets, each containing ten half-crowns, and four others containing ten florins each, making forty—I found a counterfeit shilling in his trousers pocket—the five packets that I took from the seat each contained ten bad shillings, and the five packets in the bag each contained ten bad shillings—the coins were all wrapped up in the usual way, with tissue paper between them to prevent their rubbing—I cannot identify the two packets that Watson threw, but

the five packets contain shillings corresponding in date with some of those found in the bag—when I asked Abbott for her address at the station, Gray said, "If she was my wife, I should refuse," and then she refused.

Cross-examined by MR. DALEY. Q. How soon after you entered the public-house did the money go on the seat? A. The very instant that I tried to get at Gray.

COURT. Q. Did the prisoners enter the house together? A. Yes—they came in the same direction—I saw them walking together about a minute and a half before they entered, apparently in conversation.

JOHN FIFE . I was with Brannan, and saw the prisoners come up together—Gray went in first—I saw them for about a minute before they entered—I went into the room where they were—Gray was sitting behind the door, and the other two were standing up—I saw him throw some packets, which fell on the seat—the woman then threw something from under her shawl, which also fell on the seat—I afterwards saw Brannan pick up some packets from that seat containing counterfeit shillings—I found 4s. on Gray, but nothing on the other two.

Cross-examined. Q. Were there other persons in the public-house? A. There was a boy sitting in one of the windows.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These twenty crowns are all bad—I have selected three from one mould, and have no doubt there are others—these thirty half-crowns are bad, and I have selected three of them from one mould—these forty florins are bad, and here are three of them from one mould—here are one hundred and one shillings; I have taken three of them of 1858, found on the prisoners, and three of 1858, from the packets, and they are all from the same mould.

WATSON and ABBOTT— GUILTY .— Confined Two Years each.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1182
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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1182. GEORGE GRAY was again indicted for having counterfeit coin in his possession with intent to utter it; to which he


He was further charged with having been before convicted.

JAMES BRANNAN . I produce a certificate—Read: "Central Criminal Court, April, 1860, Charles Thomas, Convicted of having counterfeit coin in his possession, with intent to utter it. Confined Two Year"—Gray is the person—I had him in custody.

Prisoner. I have been a cripple in my left hand twenty years, and they took a description of me. Witness. You showed me your left hand on the last occasion in the cell at Worship-street—I have no doubt of you, and have witnesses here who were here on the last occasion.

ARTHUR ELLIOTT (Police-sergeant). I was present in April, 1860, when the prisoner was convicted—I swear he is the same man.

GEORGE LOCKYER . I am a warder of Cold bath Fields prison—the prisoner has been there, but I do not remember in what name, or for what length of sentence—a description would be taken of him, but that finger might pass.

GUILTY.**—The officers stated that he was connected with a notorious gang of swindlers as well as coiners, and had also been sentenced to Twelve Months' imprisonment for receiving stolen property.

Fifteen Years' Penal Servitude.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1183
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

1183. CHARLES NIBB (57) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. COOKE and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

EDWARD CURTIS . I am a pork butcher, of Notting-hill—on 19th September, about 9 at night, the prisoner came for a piece of pork, which came

to 7d.—my son served him in my presence, and he tendered my wife a bad half-crown—I said, "Have you any knowledge where you got it?"—he said my wife took it in business—he gave me a good florin, and my wife gave him change.

Cross-examined by MR. DALEY. Q. Do you know where the prisoner lives? A. No—I know Walmer-terrace, Clarendon-road; that is not a quarter of a mile from my house.

JOHN WILSON . I carry on business at Queen's-road, Notting-hill—on Saturday night, 19th September, about 9 o'clock, the prisoner came and asked for an ounce of tea, which came to 3d.—he gave me a shilling—I found it was bad, broke it, and gave it back to him—he said that his wife must have taken it—he gave me a good half-crown, and I gave him change, and he left.

Cross-examined. Q. Is your shop lighted with gas? A. Yes—it is about a quarter of a mile from Clarendon-road—I know this was on Saturday the 16th.

MR. COOKE. Q. How soon were you up before the Justice? A. On the Monday—Clarendon-road is about 200 yards from my house.

JANE SEWELL . I keep a fishmonger's shop, at 28, Princes-road, Notting-hill, about ten minutes' walk from Mr. Wilson's—on Saturday night, 19th September, the prisoner came and asked for two herrings, which came to 2 1/2 d.—he gave me a shilling—I gave him 9 1/2 d. in coppers, and he left; somebody came in and spoke to me; I looked at the shilling, and found it was bad—my husband went out and returned with the prisoner.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you put the shilling in the till? A. No; I held it in my hand; a lady outside said, "Beware of that money," so I did not put it in my pocket, but gave it to my husband.

WILLIAM SEWELL . On Saturday night, 19th September, my wife brought me a bad shilling—I broke it in half, went out, caught the prisoner, said, "Come on, old fellow, I want you for passing bad money at my shop"—he said, "Me? I am a respectable man"—on the way back to the shop a woman gave me a shilling, which she said he had dropped—I told her to come up to the Police-court, but have never seen her since—I gave the prisoner in charge, with the two shillings.

Cross-examined. Q. When you overtook him was he alone? A. No, talking to another man, who went off, and who I could not describe—I knew the woman; she used to be a very good customer before, but I have never seen her since—I have made inquiry, but have not found her.

DENNIS CLIFFORD (Policeman, T 336). The prisoner was given into my custody at Mr. Sewell's shop—Mr. Sewell gave these two bad shillings to the Inspector in my presence—I searched the prisoner, and found on him three shillings and six sixpences, good money, but no coppers; some tea, coffee, tobacco, spectacles, a knife, and eighteen postage stamps, some pork and two herrings.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These shillings are bad.

The prisoner received a good character.


The following prisoners PLEADED GUILTY to unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin:—

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1184
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

1184. ROGER WILLIAMS (27) .— Confined Eighteen Months , and [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1185
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

1185. THOMAS CLARK** (25) .— Confined Eighteen Months. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

OLD COURT.—Tuesday, October 27 th, 1863.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

The following prisoners PLEADED GUILTY:—

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1186
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

1186. JOHN BLACKBURN (30) , to five indictments for burglary.— Ten Years' Penal Servitude. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1187
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

1187. JOHN TAYLOR (25) , to two indictments for forging and uttering requests for the delivery of goods.— Confined Twelve Months. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1188
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

1188. JOHN WYLD (42) to embezzling 2l. 15s., 1l. 14s. and 19s. 9d., of Frederick Sherwood, his master.— Confined Two Years : and [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1189
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

1189. DANIEL HUGHES (17) , to embezzling 2s. 14s. 4d. and 1l. 4s. 3d. of Frederick Sherwood, his master.— Confined Fifteen Months. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

For the case of Thomas Knowlden and others, see Surrey Cases.

NEW COURT.—Tuesday, October 27 th, 1863.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1190
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

1190. CHARLOTTE MURRAY (29) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin. MR. COOKE conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY JACKSON . I am beer boy at the Princess Alice, Whitechapel—on Saturday, 10th October, about 8 in the evening, the prisoner came for half a pint of beer, which came to a penny—she gave me a shilling—I gave her elevenpence change, and, when she had gone, I showed my master the shilling—it was bad, and he kept it—on the next Tuesday she came again for half a pint of beer, and gave me a shilling—I took it into the bar, and showed it to my mistress—Mr. Bamborough came in, and took it from me—a constable was sent for, and the prisoner was given in custody.

Prisoner. I was not there on Saturday.

Witness. I have not a doubt of you.

RALPH BAMBOROUGH . On 10th October, Jackson gave me a bad shilling—on the Tuesday afterwards, I saw him showing my wife another bad shilling—I found the prisoner at my bar, and gave her in custody.

WILLIAM WATSON (Policeman, H 55). The prisoner was given into my custody, with these two bad shillings—I asked her if she had any more bad money—she said, "I have not"—I took her to the station, and handed her over to the searcher, who afterwards gave me this bad shilling, and a purse containing three sixpences and 1s. 3 1/2 d. in copper.

CHARLOTTE SQUIRES . My husband is a policeman, and I search females at the station-house—I searched the prisoner on the 13th—one of her hands was closed, and she refused to open it—I forced it open, and found a bad shilling, which I gave to Watson, also a purse, containing three good sixpences and 1s. 3 1/2 d. in copper.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These are all bad shillings.

Prisoner's Defence. I did not know they were bad.

GUILTY .— Confined Ten Months.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1191
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

1191. JESSE DUVAL (28), was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. COOKE and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM SLACK . I keep a beer shop, at 44, Southwark Bridge-road—on Sunday, 11th October, I was called to my bar; the prisoner was there, and my wife, in his presence, gave me a crown—I asked the prisoner if he gave it to the mistress—he said, "Yes; is it a bad one?"—I said, "Yes," threw

it into my parlour, and said, "I will lock you up"—I went for a constable. and gave him in charge, with the crown—I appeared at the Police-court on the Monday; he was remanded till Wednesday, and then discharged.

JOHN COLLINS (Policeman, P 365). The prisoner was given into my custody on 11th October, with this crown—I found a good sixpence on him at the station—he was remanded till the Wednesday, and remained in custody till a quarter past 1 o'clock that day, when he was discharged from the Southwark Police-court.

ANN LUND . I am landlady of the Crown, Watling-street—on Wednesday, 14th October, the prisoner came for a glass of stout, which came to twopence—he put down a crown—I tried it in a detector, and told him it was bad, sent for a constable, and gave him in charge.

WILLIAM PECK (City-policeman, 428). The prisoner was given in my custody with this crown (produced)—he was taken to the station, and in his left boot another bad crown was found, also threepence in good money—he said that he lived at Manchester—we said that we should make inquiries, and he said that it was no good.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These three crowns are bad, and two are from the same mould.

GUILTY .— Confined Two Years.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1192
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

1192. ELIZABETH LAHO (20), was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. COOKE and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

STEPHENS. I am shopman to Mr. Wren, a cheesemonger, of 249, Gray's-in-road—on Tuesday, 6th October, I served the prisoner with a quarter of a pound of sausages, which came to 2 1/2 d.—she gave me a shilling, which I put in the till, and gave her change—there was no other money there—after she left my master took it out and showed it to me—it was bad—I had not taken any other shilling in the mean time—on Thursday, 15th, she came again, and I recognised, her—Mr. Wren served her with some cheese—she tendered him a shilling—he directed me to give change—I found it was bad, disfigured it, and Mr. Wren gave her in custody.

Prisoner. I go there twice every day, and you know me quite well. Witness. I know you coming to the shop for some weeks; I know you as a customer, but did not know where you lived—you came once or twice in the interval between passing the two bad shillings, and tendered good money.

JOSEPH WREN . On 6th October, I saw the prisoner in my shop, and gave the last witness change to give her—five minutes after she left I went to the till and found a bad shilling—there was no other shilling there—I showed it to Stephens, kept it, and gave it to the constable—on Thursday, 15th, the prisoner came again—I knew her well, and had been waiting for her—I saw Stephens take her money—he bent it, and I took it from him—I said to the prisoner, "This is bad, and this is not the first one that you have given me"—she said, "I know I gave you that one, but I never gave you one before; do let me off; do not give me in custody"—she clasped her hands together, and appeared to go on her knees—I gave her in custody, with the shillings.

Prisoner. You said that I had given you five shillings, and afterwards you said nine shillings. Witness. I said that I had taken nine shillings worth altogether.

COURT. Q. How long have you known the prisoner dealing with you? A. Five or six weeks—she came and passed good money between these two times—I thought she might try it on with my man, though she did not with me, as his sight is rather bad.

WILLIAM WAINWRIGHT (Policeman, C 81). On 15th October, the prisoner was given into my charge at Mr. Wren's shop—I told her the charge, and she said that she hoped Mr. Wren would forgive her this time—a farthing was found on her at the station—she refused to tell me where she lived.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These shillings are bad, but from different moulds.


26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1193
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

1193. HENRY JONES (31), was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. COOKE and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM WALKER . I am errand boy to Messrs. Borer and Key, hosiers, of Cheapside—I served the prisoner about two months ago with a pair of wristbands, which came to a shilling—the foreman, Summers, came forward to take the money, and the prisoner gave him a crown—Summers brought it back, and said that it was bad—the prisoner paid with a half-sovereign—we gave him change, and he left—Summers gave him back the five shillings.

HENRY ALBERT SUMMERS . I am assistant to Messrs. Borer and Keys—I received the crown from the prisoner—I found it was bad, but a very good imitation—I marked it slightly with my teeth, and gave it back, under the instructions of my employer.

GEORGE MOORE . I am a waiter, at Reeve's dining-rooms, Pope's Headalley—on 5th October, about 2 o'clock, the prisoner came and asked for a glass of port wine, which came to sixpence—he tendered a crown—I changed it at the bar, and found it was bad; I took it back to the prisoner, and told him so, and he gave me a half-crown—I gave him change, and he left, taking the bad crown with him.

ROBERT JOHN POTTLE . I am a news-agent, at the Royal Exchange—on 5th October, I served the prisoner with a Shipping Gazette, which came to fivepence—he gave me a crown—I had no small change, and gave it back to him; but, as he turned round, I thought I recognised him, and said that I could do it—he gave it to me again, and then I noticed that it was bad, and asked him if he had any other money—he said, "No"—he refused his address or his card, so I desired Gibbs to take him down to Bow-lane station, with the crown.

Prisoner. Q. Did not you say that you had no change? A. Yes, the first time; but when I recognised you I borrowed two half-crowns from Gibbs—I then found out that the crown was bad, but Gibbs said, "You had better give him the change, or else you cannot prosecute him."

MR. COOKE. Q. In what way did you recognise him? A. I fancied he had passed one to me previously.

ALLEN JOHN GIBBS . I received the crown, and gave it to the policeman had not seen the prisoner there before.

Prisoner. Q. Have you not said that some six weeks previously Mr. Potter passed on you a crown piece? A. He gave me one not knowing it—I passed it again, and was told that it was bad—I have got it now—this is it (produced)—he gave me about 4l. to pay away, and this crown with it—he afterwards gave me five shillings, but I kept the crown.

HENRY WICKHAM (City-policeman, 415). The prisoner was given in my charge, with this crown—I asked his address—he said that he had none, but slept at a coffee-house in London-road—I found on him two good half-crowns, a florin, a knife, and three watch keys.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This is a bad crown.

Prisoner's Defence. I was brought out with three persons very dissimilar to myself; the boy looked at me for about three minutes, and then shook

his head. I was then turned round to the light. I coughed, and he looked at me again, and said, "I think that is the man." They refused to take his evidence at the Mansion House because it was so slight, but on the second occasion, when it was fixed upon his memory by previously seeing me, he said that I was the man, and this is supposed to have happened six weeks before. I am in a consumption, and am travelling the country for my health. The boy only recognised me by my cough. On the second occasion I bought a Shipping Gazette. He could not give me change, but he went and got it. I walked with him to Bow lane, and had the opportunity of running away, for he left me, and went across to three gentlemen standing outside a public-house, and had five minutes' conversation with them. One witness has told you that he took a bad crown and paid it away again; is not one person as likely to do so as another? I am perfectly innocent.


26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1194
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

1194. MARGARET KELLY (37), was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. COOKE and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

HARRIET MARSH . I am barmaid at the Marquis of Hastings, Somers-town—on Friday, 24th September, between 9 and 10 in the evening, the prisoner came to the bar, and I served her with some gin and beer, which came to sixpence—she gave me a florin—I put it in the till, gave her change, and she left—in about two minutes my sister went to the till and took out a florin, which she showed me—it was bad—there was no other florin there—I put it on a shelf, and later that night a police-sergeant marked it and took it—next day, about half-past 4, the prisoner came again, and she asked for some gin and beer—she had a bottle and a jug—she gave me a half-crown—I put it between my teeth, and found it was bad; my teeth marked it—she took it out of my hand, and put it in her pocket, as I thought—she gave me a good half-crown—I sent for my sister, who bolted the doors, and a policeman was sent for, who asked the prisoner where the half-crown was—she said that she had not got it—he moved her about, and it fell on the floor—he picked it up, and I showed him the marks of my teeth on it—she had a purse on her, with a half-sovereign and eight good half-crowns.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Was there other silver in the till? A. A few sixpences, but no other florin—no one gave change after that—my sister took it out about two minutes after I received it.

SARAH MARSH . I am a sister of the last witness—on 24th September, I saw the prisoner at the bar, and saw her give my sister a florin in payment for some gin and beer—I saw my sister put it in the till, and the prisoner left—I went to the till about two minutes afterwards, and found one florin there—I tried it with my teeth, put it on a shelf, and it was afterwards given to Sergeant Ward.

WILLIAM WARD (Police-sergeant, S 19). On Thursday night, 24th September, I received this florin (produced) from Miss Marsh, at the Marquis of Hastings.

JAMES NORMAN (Policeman, S 97). On Friday afternoon, 25th September, I went to the Marquis of Hastings, and found the prisoner bolted in—Miss Marsh gave her in custody for passing a bad half-crown—I asked the prisoner where it was—she said that she did not know—she was holding a purse in her hand, and took out eight half-crowns and a half-sovereign—I tried them, and they were good—I made her stand on one side, and heard this coin (produced) tumble on the floor—here is the mark of teeth on it.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This florin and half-crown are bad.

MR. METCALFE called,

ROBERT THOMAS . I live at 57, Wilsted-street, Euston-square, about one hundred yards from the Marquis of Hastings—I know the prisoner, she was at my house on 24th September—she came for my wife to make her a bonnet—my wife is a milliner—she said that they should go and buy the shape if she came on the following day, and my wife and her went out—she said, "Give me a shilling or two, I want to treat you, Mrs. Kelly"—I gave her a two-shilling piece, and they went out—they were not many minutes away, perhaps ten minutes, not more, and they came back—the prisoner remained an hour or an hour and a half—I saw her next day—she said that she had come ready prepared to buy the material for her bonnet—she pulled her purse out and put it on the table—she had in it, nine half-crowns and half a sovereign—I took it up and said, "Are you going to spend all this in a bonnet?"—she said, "Well, I want to buy a good one"—she went out to buy a shape, and I never saw her again till she was in custody—she is a respectable woman—I have known her four or five years, and she has borne a good character all that time.

Cross-examined by MR. COOKE. Q. Where does she live? A. She said she lived in a street out of the Strand—I do not know her living in any house, but Buckingham-street is the street, I believe, and it was either No. 19 or 17, she told me—she has been getting her living as a respectable woman, going about charing—that is what she told me—I gave my wife a good florin to the best of my belief.

MR. METCALFE. Q. You think you could not be taken in with a bad one? A. Not very well—the barmaid was taken in, but the fact of it is, this was not the two-shilling piece that was delivered to the barmaid—I gave my wife a good two-shilling piece, which she laid out at the Marquis of Hastings.

COURT. Q. What are you? A. A traveller for myself; goods on commission—I am well known in the City—I do not go journeys away from home, I only go round London—I am home every night—I travel pretty nearly every day—sometimes I am at home for a day—I know well that it was on the 24th, it was Thursday—I was at home, but not all day; I came home at half-past 3 or 4 o'clock—I had dined between 12 and 1—I dine at various places, wherever I am—the prisoner came in at half-past 4 or 5 o'clock—when they came back, they brought some drink with them—a quartern of gin and a pint of beer.

MR. COOKE. Q. What time did they come back with it? A. They were only out ten minutes or so—we had not had tea.

SARAH THOMAS . I am the wife of the last witness—the prisoner was at our house the day before she was taken—I make bonnet stocks and gentlemen's collars—she came to me about half-past 4 to get a bonnet, and I asked her if she would have something to eat—I had got a knuckle of veal; no; pork, in the place, and I asked her if she would have that—she said, 'Well, we will have a drop of beer and a little gin, where do you get your beer?"—I said, "If you will go to the large public-house you will get a good drop of beer"—she said, "Will you come with me?"—I said, "Yes," and left my husband at home—I said to him, "I have got no money in my pocket, you must give me some"—he said, "Here is a two-shilling piece—he gave it to me, and I went out with her to the Marquis of Hastings, and gave a good two-shilling piece, the same which my husband had given me—went into the house with the prisoner and gave that young woman (Harriet Marsh) the same florin that I received from my husband—we took the gin and beer with us, and both went back home—it was about a quarter or half-past 8 on Thursday that we were in the public-house, but I did not take

particular notice—we did not go for a shape for a bonnet that night—my attention was called to this matter on Friday night—I have not been examined before—early on Friday afternoon the prisoner came to me, and said, "I am going to buy the shape, and we will have a little drop of gin"—that was by ourselves—she said, "Will you go with me?"—I said, "I cannot," and she went alone—she had it purse, and I saw some money—I do not know whether it was silver, I should expect it was—it was produced in my husband's presence, shortly before she went out—I did not see her again—No. 97 came and told me that she was in custody about 6 o'clock on Friday night—I thought she had got lost, not knowing the neighbourhood.

Cross-examined by MR. COOKE. Q. Did you attend at the police-office when she was committed? A. No; nor at the station—the policeman did not inquire for me, he asked if there was a Mrs. Thompson lived there—I said, "No; there is a Mrs. Thomas"—he said, "Do you know a person named Margaret Kelly?"—I said, "I do,"—he said, "Is she a friend of yours'?"—I said, "Yes; so far as I work for her,"—he said, "She is taken up for passing a bad half-crown,"—I said, "I will never believe it"—I went to the Marquis of Hastings with my husband on the Wednesday following—the prisoner came to my house between half-past 4 and 5 on Thursday, and remained till half-past 8, because I was busy—we then went to the Marquis of Hastings, and I paid the money myself.

COURT. Q. When did the prisoner come to you on Friday night, what o'clock was it? A. Well, I cannot exactly say the time, it might be 4; you asked me the question before, and I gave you an answer—it might be 4 it might be 5—we did not have tea either day—we were only a few minutes gone for the beer, it might be ten minutes—I believe she had not got her money then—on the Wednesday we called at the Marquis of Hastings, Mr. Cubitt's, I believe, and we went in and had a pint of beer—my husband went in, and I went in and asked this young lady how her hand was—on Thursday the prisoner first came to my house about 6 o'clock, but I cannot tell you, I am sure—it was in the evening part—I have got a clock that does not go, and I will not swear—she remained till about half-past 8—I cannot swear, but I know that is about the time we have supper beer at home, and this quartern of gin as well, do not forget that—I gave that young lady the two-shilling piece myself—Harriet Marsh is the one, I think—I got the beer and gin from her on the Thursday—the prisoner was then standing at my side—I am certain of that—I cannot tell what time the prisoner came on Friday because my clock will not go, but about 4 or half-past 4 or 5—she did not stay very long before she went out, perhaps half an hour, and then she went out, but I did not—I have known her three or four years, or it might be a little more—I do not ask what occupations persons follow, those sort of questions would not do—I have made her bonnets, and she comes for them—I was never in her house—I have made her a great many.

HARRIET MARSH (re-called). Mrs. Thomas came with the prisoner on Thursday evening—I stated so to the Magistrate at Clerkenwell—I have seen her in the house before, but did not knew where she lived—she did not give me the florin, the prisoner gave it to me and took the change, I am quite sure of that—it was between 9 and 10 o'clock—I am sure it was as late as that—they took away a pot of beer and half a pint of gin—I did not see Mrs. Thomas give the prisoner the florin.

Cross-examined by MR. COOKE. Q. Were they there twice together? A. No; only once.

GUILTY .— Confined Two Years.THE JURY stated that they believed that what Mrs. Thomas had sworn to, was untrue, and THE COURT ordered her into custody, and an indictment for perjury to be preferred against her.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1195
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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1195. ELIZA CHAMBERS (30) , Stealing a watch, a chain, and a locket of William Barnett, from his person.

MR. LANGFORD conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM BARNETT . I am a boot-maker, at 48, Newington Butts—on 2d October, about 12 at night, I was in King William-street, City, looking for a cab—the prisoner and another woman came up to me—the one seized me by the throat while the prisoner tore my watch and chain out of my pocket by force—they then seized my scarf and tore my pin out—I was released by my scarf breaking, ran after the prisoner and caught her, and she gave me back my watch and chain—a constable came up and I gave her in custody—I lost the locket and part of the chain—I had been drinking, but knew what I was about—I was not running about with my watch in my hand.

Prisoner. Q. Were you not struggling on the ground with another female before you came up to me? A. No; I was not half an hour before I signed the charge sheet at the station, nor did I say that I was not sure of you—I said that I did not wish to press the charge, knowing the trouble I should be put to—I told the Inspector I had been drinking—I know you perfectly well—you had a black eye at the time.

COURT. Q. Where had you come from last? A. I had just left the European—that is a public-house—I had seen a friend into a cab at the top of King William-street to go to the railway—I had had a drop of brandy and water—I had been before that to a solicitor's, Mr. Thompson's, 4, Nicholas-lane—I called there about 6 o'clock—I was not there till 11—I went to other places before I went to the European—I had seen one or two friends that evening at one or two houses—I had a chop at 9 o'clock at a coffee-house on Fish-street Hill—I drank nothing but coffee there—I was at several public-houses in the course of the evening—I could not see a cab in King William-street, or an omnibus—I did not speak to the prisoner—not a word was spoken by either of us—the exact spot was very near Ridgway, the grocer's—I also lost my breast-pin—this (produced) is my scarf.

ALFRED MILLS . I am a servant to Mr. Scott, a victualler, of 15, Clement's-lane, King William-street, forty or fifty yards from Ridgway's—I was shutting up the house about a quarter to 11 o'clock, heard screams of "Police," ran out, and saw the prisoner and another woman struggling with Mr. Barnett—I went up to them and said, "You hold this one, and I will run for a constable"—I did so, and the prisoner was taken—I went to the station, and then returned and picked up this locket and piece of a chain, by Smith's, the cutler's—that is about twenty yards from Ridgway's—I am sure it was the prisoner.

Prisoner. Q. Did you see me give the prosecutor a watch? A. No; the policemen looked about on the ground with their lanterns for the locket, but not on that spot—the prosecutor repeatedly refused to sign the charge—he was not sober, but sober enough to catch you.

COURT. Q. You did not see the prisoner run away? A. No; I did not see the beginning of it, I only saw the prosecutor come up and catch the prisoner—he was screaming "Police,"—it was quite clear; there were no cabs about, or omnibusses—there was nobody in the street except us three, but two or three people came running when they heard the screams of police.

WILLIAM CHITTY (City-policeman, 483). On October 2d, about a quarter to 11, I, was on duty in King William-street, and Mr. Barnett gave the prisoner into my custody—the watch was given to me and the prosecutor asked me for it again, but I told him he must come to the station—he said at the station that if he got his property back, he would not press the charge—he had no scarf on, only a shirt-collar; his scarf was found afterwards in two pieces—I went to the address the prisoner gave, but it was false—she afterwards said that she had made a mistake.

Prisoner. Q. In the morning, did not the Inspector say to you that the prosecutor was so under the influence of liquor, that he did not think he would be there, and you had better subpoena him? A. He said that he was under the influence of liquor, and he could not leave his business to prosecute, but would rather lose his property.

The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate:—"That gentleman was very drunk, and running about with his watch in his hand."

Prisoner's Defence. I was coming over the bridge, and the prosecutor and a young woman were struggling in the water together, fighting. I went across the road to avoid them. The prosecutor came across and said, "You are the person who stole my watch." Then he said, "No, I have lost my locket." I never saw his watch or property. He was very drunk.


26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1196
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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1196. WILLIAM BILLING (21), was indicted for embezzlement.

MR. METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY HACKER . I am warehouseman to Messrs. Wilson—they carry on business as warehousemen—on 13th June I sold some goods to a Mr. Grognan, amounting to 1l. 2s. 6d.—I paid the money to the prisoner on the same day, and have his receipt in this book (produced)—on 24th July I sold goods to Mr. Mason, amounting to 1l. 7s. 3d.—I did not pay the money to the prisoner myself, but I have his receipt for it in my book—on 12th September I sold some goods to Mr. Wright for 10s. 6d., and have the prisoner's receipt for that—it was my duty to pay it over to him.

COURT. Q. What book is that? A. The journal, and he signs for the money—this is not the ready-money book; it is my sale-book.

THOMAS GEORGE DAVIES . I am ledger-clerk to Messrs. Wilson—it was the prisoner's duty to account to me for the money he received, and pay it over to me the same evening—I produce my book; they are entered here in his writing, but he has not paid over the money—the 13th June was a ready-money sale, and I find that the prisoner received the money; he made the entry himself—he ought to have paid it over to me, but he has not—he wrote this entry in the red book, signed it, and put "Paid" to it.

COURT. Q. You could have gone to him that night and said, "Where is that 1l. 2s. 6d.?" A. Yes; I cannot say whether I did, but I have before, and he has promised to pay in a day or two, and he has paid afterwards—he was not discharged until my initials appeared in this book—my master might have come to me, and said that I had not done my duty that night.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Had you to account to the cashier? A. Yes; I did not tell him that the prisoner had kept the money—I had not authority from my employers to allow him to do so, but he had done so before, and the money was paid.

The COURT considered that there was no embezzlement, but that the prisoner might be sued in the Sheriff's Court for the amount. NOT GUILTY .

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1197
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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1197. WILLIAM BILLING was again indicted for a like offence.

MR. METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.

ISAAC WISEMAN . I am in the preparation-department—I sold goods to Mr. Shaw for 10s. 6d. on 4th December, and have the prisoner's receipt for it in this book.

CHARLES INGLISS . I am employed in one of the departments of this establishment—on 3d September I sold Mr. Daniel goods amounting to 15s., and have the prisoner's receipt in my book—on 10th September I sold Mr. Wakeman goods amounting to 14s., and hold the prisoner's receipt for them.

THOMAS GEORGE DAVIES . I am the ledger-clerk—I have 10s. 6d. and 15s. entered in my book on 3d September, and 14s. 3d. on the 10th—the prisoner told me he would pay me in a day or two's time, and I agreed, as he had to pay some money away for the firm.

CHARLES FARNCOMB . I am chief-clerk and cashier to Messrs. Wilson—Mr. Davies ought to have accounted to me—I was not told that the money would be paid in a few days, nor that the prisoner had kept it—it ought to have been paid to Davies the same night—none of these sums have been paid.

COURT. Q. I suppose the books were open to you? A. Yes; I could have gone and seen that the prisoner had debited himself with the moneys, and had not paid them over—I asked Davies at one time for one of the amounts, and he said that it was not paid—I would not for a moment suppose that Davies would suffer an amount to pass over in that way.

Cross-examined by MR. POLAND. Q. Did the prisoner say, when he was charged, that he intended to pay the money? A. Yes; Mr. Wilson said if I thought so, why should I give him in custody?

MR. METCALFE. Q. Did he say that he had taken the money, and was going to pay it back? A. Yes.


The following prisoners PLEADED GUILTY:—

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1198
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude

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1198. JAMES LONG (49), THOMAS FLOYD (18), and JOHN SAMPSON (51) , to being found by night with housebreaking instruments in their possession, Floyd having been before convicted.

LONG** and SAMSON.— Three Years' Penal Servitude each. FLOYD.**— Five Years' Penal Servitude. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1199
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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1199. CHARLES COLEMAN (26) , to embezzling the sum of 2l. 16s. 4d., the property of William Thomas Bone and another. He received a good character.— Judgment respited.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1200
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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1200. HENRY EDWIN ADDIS (40) , to feloniously marrying Emma Mills, his wife being alive.— Confined Twelve Months. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

OLD COURT.—Wednesday, October 28 th, 1863.

Before Mr. Baron Martin.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1201
VerdictNot Guilty > non compos mentis

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1201. SARAH EMILY MITCHELL (24), was indicted for the wilful murder of Sarah Emily Adeline Chappell. She was also charged, on the Coroner's Inquisition, with the like murder.

MESSRS. CLERK and BEASLEY conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM CATHROW . I am a Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons, and reside at 42, Weymouth-street—I know the prisoner—I first attended her on 4th April last, prior to her confinement; she was confined on 30th April—I saw her on 29th April—my friend Dr. Byam attended her in her confinement as I was called out of town, but I saw her the next day; I was in the habit of attending her daily subsequent to her confinement, up to the

period of her committing this act—on the morning of Friday, 31st July, I saw her at her lodging in Marylebone-road about 12 o'clock—that was a visit in consultation with Dr. Byam by appointment—the prisoner had told me prior to that that she was not friendly with Mr. Chappell, and that she should be led to do something wrong to herself and her child if she was not on friendly terms with him—when I went there on the Friday she was lying on the sofa with her Bible in her hand—I told her I had brought Mr. Byam to see her, as she was in a nervous condition, and I had some conversation with her regarding her treatment of Mr. Chappell—our conversation and consultation altogether lasted about twenty minutes—she promised me to be calm and also to give up all annoyance to Mr. Chappell—I left after her promising me that she would give up all idea of doing anything to herself or child—she had told me three or four days before that she should be obliged to do something to herself or the child if she was not friendly with Mr. Chappell, and I tried to argue the point with her, and to convince her of the impropriety of such an act—she said she would try and think well of what I had said—I told her I was sure if she would only try and be comfortable and happy, I could get a handsome settlement made upon her—I wished her to give up all annoyance of Mr. Chappell—I alluded to her excessive and numerous acts of jealousy—she told me she was jealous of Mr. Chappell; she was jealous of one particular woman, a Welsh woman; she said that Mr. Chappell showed that Welsh woman all his kindness and affection, and neglected her—that was not a person in the house, but another woman that she told me Mr. Chappell was keeping—I believe that was the truth—Mr. Byam and I left her on the Friday about half-past 12—a little after 4 that same afternoon the prisoner's sister, Elizabeth Mitchell, came to my house in a cab—I returned with her and went up stairs to the prisoner's room—I found both the doors locked—I asked for a hammer or poker to break open the door—a poker was brought and I broke open the panel of the door, and tried to get through, but could not, and I pushed the prisoner's sister through, and she opened the other door and let me in—I then saw the prisoner lying on the floor by the side of some drawers, all over blood, with the exception of her knees and feet—I saw that she had a very long jagged wound in the throat, extending four and a half inches—the child was lying on the right side of the bed, covered wholly, with the exception of the left leg with a pillow; it was then alive—a razor was lying on the bed—when the child was stripped I found a small incised wound between the fifth and sixth rib, just under the left nipple—I dressed the wound—the child began to be sick, and vomited until its death, which took place about half-past 12 on the following Sunday, the 2d August—I afterwards made an examination of the body, at the Coroner's request—death was caused by the wound, the dagger having entered the lungs, the cavity of the thorax, escaping the heart, and going through the diaphragm—a dagger was found in my presence on the Sunday evening by one of the policemen—at the time the child was found on the bed I considered that the wound had been inflicted by the razor; but the wound through the chest and diaphragm perfectly corresponded with the width of the dagger, and the blood on the dagger was about three and a half inches up it, just corresponding with the depth from the rib to the diaphragm—I gave notice to the police directly the child was dead, on the Sunday evening—the dagger was found accidentally by the policeman; he put his elbow against the shutter and it dropped from behind it—it was in a sheath; it had been put back again into the sheath—the wound in the prisoner's throat was inflicted by the razor—I first

attended the prisoner on 4th April—from that time up to the time this act was committed, I always found her excessively nervous—on the first visit I paid her she said her husband did not behave right to her; she was always excessively jealous, and occasionally attacked with hysteria, not of a very severe character—I believe the jealousy was well-founded—I attended her after this act was committed until the day I came with her to Newgate; I do not know what day that was—it was in September—she remained at the lodgings till then—Mr. By am saw her two or three times for me after the day of consultation; he saw her for me I dare say ten times, because I was obliged to be out of town, and dressed the wound—after this act was done there was always a vacant stare about her, and there was so little apparent sorrow for the loss of her child, that made me think that her mind could not be in the proper state that it ought to be—she repeated that her jealousy was very great, and she complained greatly of her head aching and of dizziness, which is another proof of insanity—a nurse attended her all this time.

COURT. Q. What was the state of her mind at the time this act occurred? A. On the day of the consultation I thought she might be left with safety, but, in my opinion, no woman could have committed the act that she did without she was in a state of insanity—I am speaking of the act towards herself and the child, and the great cunning that she showed was another symptom of insanity.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT SHEE. Q. In what respect did she show cunning. A. In throwing us off our guard the very day this occurred—I attended her from the 4th April; she was confined on the 30th—I saw her almost every day till the 30th—I only left her that day to go to a patient in Hampshire—I saw her again on my return next day—she was in a nervous, jealous condition from the first moment I saw her on the 4th April; she was always much excited—she was not violent at that time—the confinement was a premature one, about the sixth month; the child lived for about half an hour—I saw her the next day; there was a good deal of nervous excitement about her, with pains in the abdomen, that I could not account for—there were also pains in the head, and very great restlessness—she required large doses of opium, to give her rest—the symptoms yielded to the opium, but not entirely; there was always excitement about her—I had to give her a very considerable quantity of opium to enable her to get any rest at all—she used to talk to me a great deal about her affairs, always about Mr. Chappell, and what she considered his ill-treatment of her—within the last three weeks previous to this act she refused to accept any money from him, she was provided with everything necessary to her personal comfort as far as I could tell; it was a comfortable lodging—she had the appearance of being at her ease in a pecuniary sense—I never saw her in want before that time—she continued for several months in that excited state—within the last three months she said she would have Mr. Chappell's affections or no money—she told me they had had a desperate quarrel, and after that Mr. Chappell's lawyer came to me, and I was requested to arrange with her terms of separation—I did so; it was on that occasion that she refused any money, and up to the time of the child's death—I think I saw her every day from the time I spoke to her about the separation up to the commission of this act, and sometimes twice a day, with the exception of three or four days, when she went to Liverpool; during that time she was in an exceedingly excited state—that made me call in my friend Mr. Byam—my attention had been several times called to her condition by her sister; she came to me three times before 31st July, in a state of alarm about the

condition of her sister's mind, but I could not see it—I visited her on those occasions—I had my suspicions about her, because she said she would do this act—she said she would destroy herself—I don't think she said that more than three times before I called in Dr. Byam—I argued with her, but I do not seem to have convinced her at all—she still said she would destroy herself—her sister called my attention to some laudanum, and seemed alarmed about it—I heard nothing about the dagger or razor—I did not think she would do anything to herself—Mr. Wilson, the solicitor's partner, also spoke to me about her condition—it was after that that Mr. Byam and I saw her together—she was then reading her Bible—during the conversation she smiled two or three times, when I was telling her she had better give up all worry of Mr. Chappell, and accept an allowance—she smiled, and seemed quite cheerful—that was on that very morning that this happened—I don't think I saw her sister then—Dr. Byam had seen her for me since her confinement—at that time I did not think it necessary to put her under restraint.

COURT. Q. Was your object in going there to determine whether or not she ought to be put under restraint? A. Yes, it was.

MR. SERJEANT SHEE. Q. And on the whole her manner was such that you thought it was not necessary. A. She threw us off our guard by her excessive cunning—she must have been cunning, because at that time she must have contemplated doing something to herself; yet she threw us off our guard—I do not think she was in the family way at that time—the day she came to Newgate she had some symptoms of being in the family way, and some not—I could not say one way or the other positively.

MR. CLERK. Q. You say you heard from her that she had had a desperate quarrel with Mr. Chappell; was that prior to her confinement or after? A. After; I think about five weeks before the 31st July—I had not noticed any change in her manner after that; no more than increased passion towards Mr. Chappell—she was always in a passion whenever his name was mentioned in consequence of his doing things which she said he ought not to do.

COURT. Q. From what you saw of her should you say she was a very obstinate person? A. Excessively so; I thought so by her not taking the advice I gave he with the best intention.

ELIZABETH MITCHELL . I am the prisoner's sister—in 1859 she went into the service of Mr. Chappell, near Liverpool—she remained there up to 1862—on 11th October, 1862, she came to London, and I came with her—the child was born in, London—it was fourteen month's old—ray sister went back to Liverpool after 11th October, leaving the child with a nurse—she came back to London about 30th October, and took charge of the child herself—I lived with her from 11th October until this occurrence took place—during all that time she had the child with her; I was acting as nurse—for some little time before the child's death my sister become very low and desponding, in the extreme; I observed that change in her manner after we had been in London about three months—she became very strange, and had peculiar ways; she became very desponding, and had a great many fancies—she fancied things that were not real—she acted very strange in many ways, and complained very much of her head and pains up her back—she complained of persons coming and talking to her during the night, and of having very distressing dreams—she said she saw policemen, and she was quite sure they were coming to take her away—on one occasion she asked me to look in the bed; she was sure there were some mice or black beetles running in her bed—she was troubled very much with flushings in the face, and complained very much of her sight, and I found towards the last that she

entirely lost her memory; she would tell me a thing two or three times over and forget that she had told me—I went several times to Mr. Cathrow, and told him I was very much distressed about her strange and odd manner, and I told him there was a bottle of laudanum which made me very uneasy; I was afraid of her taking it, as her manner was so strange; I believe it was bought for her in her last confinement, and she had kept it in her possession—I should not have known that she had it only she gave me a little for the toothache—on the morning of Friday, 31st July, I went out with the child for a walk in the Regent's-park—I returned about 12—I saw my sister when I came back—I gave the child its dinner, and put it to bed in its cot about half-past 1—I then had my dinner, and went to Covent-garden Market for a peach—my sister had desired me to get her one—I returned at five minutes to 4—I went up stairs and found the drawing-room door fastened; it was always kept open—there are two doors; they were both fastened—the other door was always fastened; that was the bed-room door—it was one large room, divided by a curtain—the bed-room and sitting-room were together, but there were two doors—I went for Mr. Cathrow—he came back with me and broke open the door—I got in, and then let him in—when I went out in the morning I left the child in the care of its mamma, in a room above the first-floor, which we had as a nursery—it was in its cot—it used to sleep sometimes a quarter of an hour, and sometimes half an hour, but never more—it had been brought down from that room when I got back—it was exactly in the same dress in which I had left it, and was lying on the bed covered with a pillow—I had never seen a razor or dagger in my sister's possession before this; I did not know of either.

Cross-examined. Q. I believe when your sister first went into the employment of Mr. Chappell you went there too? A. No; I went shortly after—I remained there until my sister went to Seymour-street, Liverpool—my father is in an accountant's office at Liverpool—my sister was housekeeper to Mr. Chappell, at Highton Hall—Mr. Chappell is a widower, with two daughters—Mr. Chappell took the lodging in Seymour-street—it was a house that we had for ourselves for a town house—my sister was his housekeeper, and I assisted her—we managed the house between us—Mr. Chappell came there daily; sometimes he would take all his meals there, at other times his breakfast, and his coffee in the afternoon—after my sister had been there sometime she went to London—I was told that she had gone up to London to see the Exhibition, and at the same time she was to see a baby-linen establishment, in which Mr. Chappell had promised her she should have a part, and I should assist—that was what I was told—I did not know that she went to London to be confined; I had no idea of it, nor had any of our family, or she deceived them so much—she stayed in London a month, and then returned to Liverpool—I did not know then what had taken place in London—in October my sister and I came up to London together, and went to a lodging on Weymouth-street, not far from Mr. Chappell's town house in Devonshireplace—he continued to visit her there—she went by the name of Mrs. Chappell—when we first came to London Mr. Chappell met us at the station with a cab, very much to my surprise, and brought us to the lodging, and there he first introduced her to my knowledge as Mrs. Chappell, and me as her maid—she always continued from that time to the child's death to bear the name of Chappell, and she always wore a wedding-ring in Mr. Chappell's presence—he always called her Mrs. Chappell to me, and to every one else—he had all the necessaries of life—I don't know that there was any want of money—I had my salary—we lived economically, because Mr. Chappell's

expenses were so heavy that I understood he could not afford more—we were supplied by him with the common necessaries of life—it was not on account of money that my sister was distressed; it was her ill health and other causes—her ill health commenced very shortly after we had been in London; she became very much changed and altered for the worse—she was altered in her mind as well as in her bodily health—she became very low indeed, which was quite unnatural to her, she was so lively; and she could not sleep; she said she did not know how it was—that was after we had been in London about three months; just at the end of February—she was always extremely kind to the child; more devoted than I had ever seen any one; in fact if she had had it she would have ruined it; she was too kind to it—she showed more maternal tenderness to it than I had ever known—if it cried in the night she would rush up stairs and feed it herself when she was not able to do so, as she was so ill—she became more and more affectionate to it up to the very last moment—I remember her confinement in April—I noticed a great change in her manner after that—I thought her quite deranged—she spoke and acted so strangely; sometimes I would speak to her, and she would not answer at all; and at other times she was very much excited without any cause—it was after her confinement that she had the fancies I speak of—they wore frequent—she fancied there were people in the room at night, and that a policeman was there to take her away—she did not say what for—she was very suspicious—at one time, towards the latter part, she thought Mr. Cathrow's medicine did her more harm than good, and she thought we were all conspiring against her to poison her—I don't know whether that suspicion extended to Dr. Byam she told me on several occasions never to let the dear babe go out of my sight, for she was under the impression that Mr. Chappell, or some one, would take it from her; she was quite sure something was going to happen, and they would take it from her, and she would never be separated from it—she did not say anything about any apprehension that they were going to put her into an asylum—after her confinement in April, Mr. Chappell's visits became less frequent—about three weeks before 31st July, I remember receiving a letter from Mr. Chappell; I delivered it to her—I never read it—she tore it in shreds, and put it away—about that same time I received a letter from Mr. Chappell—I spoke to her about it—I did not show it to her—I am not quite sure whether I read it to her, for she was so distressed about the note that she had herself received that it almost seemed as if it had driven her mad—I told her the contents of it—I am not quite sure as to the time, but I think it was about three weeks or a month before she stabbed the child—at times after that she became very much excited, and at times sobbed and cried, and I could not cheer her up at all—the fancies increased—I don't think she slept at night for seven weeks before this occurrence—I have listened, and heard her of a night, for I was so distressed and alarmed about her—this is the letter that I received from Mr. Chappell. (MR. SERJEANT SHEE proposed to put in the letter if the Court considered it was receivable; Both the learned Judges were of opinion that it was admissible, the contents having been brought to the attention of the prisoner, and her subsequent acts having reference to it. Read: "Thursday (envelope dated 25th June, 1863). Dear Elizabeth, I am very sorry to have to tell you that from what has occurred between me and your sister the last few days, her violence has been such that I have become hopeless of our ever getting on comfortably together, and that I have written to her to say that a separation must take place between us, for I am

convinced that is the best thing for her as well as myself. With this view my solicitor will call to-morrow morning to confer with her as to my making a proper settlement for you all, for I am resolved neither your sister nor yourself shall ever want for anything. If you would like to see me again on any matter, I should like you to come to the office, and if you will let me know previously I will take care to be in the way to receive you, and talk matters over with you. You and your sister, with baby, will be enabled to live wherever you like, though it should be somewhere where I should be able to see baby occasionally. I am sure you will never forsake poor baby, and that you will do your duty to the poor child; give her a kiss for me, and believe me, yours sincerely, H. Chappell. It will not be so bad, but your sister is now provoked. I think you will be able to go on more comfortably, particularly as far as you are concerned, and you might live at some nice healthy place, such as Brighton.") From that time till the child's death she was excited at times; more so than before—I remember Mr. Wilson the solicitor calling—he addressed her as "Madam," and with that I left the room—shortly after I heard the bell ring; I entered the room, and found my sister fainting, and Mr. Wilson supporting her, and giving her a little brandy-and-water—that was two or three weeks previous to the child's death; between 25th June and the child's death she went to Liverpool for a few days—I did not go with her—on 31st July, when the door was broken open, and I entered the room the child had its day-clothes on in which I had left it—my sister had taken off all the clothes that she had on when I left the house, and had put on her night-dress, and a clean pair of stockings, and had laid out on a chair another night-dress, and some stockings, and a robe for the baby—she had put up her ordinary day-clothes, and locked them up, and the keys were hidden—I believe Mr. Chappell came once to the house after 25th June, after Mr. Wilson's visit, but not again.

WILLIAM JONATHAN BYAM . I am a member of the Royal College of Surgeons, and reside at 34, Welbeck-street—I was called on by Mr. Cathrow on 30th April last, to attend the prisoner for him—I had not seen her before—she was confined the same evening of a six months' child—I found her suffering more pain than is usual on such occasions, and very nervous and excitable—I did not perceive anything wrong in her state of mind—I attended her until her delivery, and remained with her the usual time afterwards—I saw her again a day or two afterwards, I think twice—she was nervous and excitable, and suffering great pain—the last time I visited her was about the third or fourth day after her delivery—on the morning of 31st July, I was requested by Mr. Cathrow to meet him in consultation, with a view to ascertain the state of her mind—that was the professed object of my visit—I found her calm and collected, but a good deal depressed in spirits—she became apparently much more cheerful while we were there—the result of the interview was that I did not think there was any necessity to put her under restraint at that time—I had previously learnt from Mr. Cathrow that she had threatened to destroy herself and her child—that, and the annoyance that I understood she had been to Mr. Chappell were the subjects of the conversation that I had with her—I saw her again the day after the deed was done, Saturday, 31st—at that time she had lost a great deal of blood—she was in a very exhausted state, and I did not talk to her—I thought she was too weak to be spoken to—I have had very little experience of cases of unsound mind—I could not form an opinion from what I saw of her as to the state of mind she was then in—I considered that the pain she was suffering from after her delivery,

was more of an hysterical character than in the nature of after pain—I do not think that hysteria coming on at such a time always affects the mind.

Cross-examined. Q. You attended her after 1st August, did you not? A. Yes, and saw her many times for Air. Cathrow—I formed the opinion that she was labouring under a form of insanity; I thought her of unsound mind—that was my judgment about her—when I saw her at first she was prostrated by loss of blood.

DR. WILLIAM THORNE . I reside at 87, Harrow-road—I have been about twenty years in practice—in the course of my practice I have had my attention directed to cases of persons suffering under aberration of mind—I attended the prisoner in her first confinement, in June, 1862—she had a very tedious labour, and suffered very much indeed from hysteria afterwards—I attended her up to the middle of July—a few days after her delivery I had a consultation; she was so bad—she was suffering from hysterical peritonitis, which is an attack of hysteria that imitates inflammation—I got her well by giving her large doses of opium—the remedy was given at the right moment—Dr. Chowne, physician of Charing-cross Hospital, saw her at the time, and we persevered with the opium treatment until we got her calm and comfortable—her mental condition at that time was just in that position, that I fully expected it to go—she was wavering, and I expected the mind to give way—I had some conversation with Mr. Chappell with regard to the state of her mind at that time—I suggested that the child should be put away to nurse, and that she should be sent home to her friends, and that advice was then followed I meant that she should not cohabit with him any more—I was positive that if she was again in the family-way, either her mind or her body, or both, would give way—I next heard of her when I was called to see her on 2d August, after this act had been committed—the child had then just died—the prisoner was then decidedly, in my opinion, maniacal—she did not recognise me, until I told her who I was—I attended her until she was removed to Newgate—up to that time she was decidedly in a state of suicidal mania—a nurse was constantly with her night and day—she told mo many very strange stories, which were all illusions, more or less—she thought she was to be taken away to an asylum, and that her child was to be taken away—after the loss of blood a certain amount of reason was restored in the course of a few days, and she then told me her motive, or her apparent motive, for what she had done, that her child was about to be taken away, which was not the fact—when I first saw her she did not seem to be aware of the death of the child.

NOT GUILTY on the ground of insanity. Ordered to be detained until Her Majesty's pleasure be known.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1202
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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1202. HARRIET WILSON (44) , Feloniously setting fire to the dwelling-house of Sarah Ann Turner, persons being therein.

MR. COLLINS conducted the Prosecution.

EMMA SMITH . I am servant at 4, Whitfield street, Hoxton—on the morning of 26th September, about a quarter past 2, the prisoner came to the house with a man—I showed them into a room, and left a candle with them—in about ten minutes the prisoner called for a jug of water, which I took up to her—she afterwards called for a comb, which I gave her—the man left about two minutes afterwards, and about five or ten minutes after he was gone the prisoner came down, gave me the light, and left—she accused the man of stealing an umbrella—as soon as she was gone I went up stairs and saw the bed furniture, at the top, all in flames—I called Mrs.

Turner and we put them out as well as we could, and Mrs. Turner went after the prisoner, and gave her into custody—she had certainly been drinking, but she knew very well what she was doing.

SARAH TURNER . I keep the house—when last witness called me I went up and found the bed furniture, at the top, all on fire—I pulled it down, and some of it fell on the bed, and caused that to catch fire—I got some water and put it out—it is a house where men and women come.


26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1203
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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1203. JOHN RYAN (18) , Robbery, with violence, on Charles Gilbert, and stealing 1/2 an ounce of tobacco, and 3s., his property.

MR. PLATT conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES GILBERT . I am a labourer, and live in Little College-street, Chelsea—about half-past 1, on 27th September, I was going along Marlborough-road, Chelsea—when I got to the corner of Oxford-street, I saw three young men—the prisoner is one of them; I am sure of him—they asked me for a lucifer—I said I had no such thing, or they should have it with pleasure—I went on a few yards, when they catched me by the back of my neck and knocked me down in the street—I could not tell which did that—they then rifled my pockets, and robbed me of 3s. and half an ounce of baccy—I do not know which rifled my pockets; they kicked me to that degree that I did not how I was circumstanced—I called out "Police!" and if it was not for them I would be killed in a minute—I did not lose sight of the prisoner until the others kicked me insensible, and then I had to let him go—I did not know him before—the others got away, and he was taken.

Cross-examined by MR. DALEY. Q. How far had you walked from the time the men asked for the light until you were knocked down? A. About six yards—I had been to take home a truck I had hired—I had had two or three half-pints of beer at the Clarence public-house, about a quarter of an hour's walk from where this happened—I had not been fighting or quarrelling with any one.

THOMAS MC DONALD . I am a plasterer, and live at 9, Lambs' Conduit-street—I was going home early on Sunday morning, the 28th—the prisoner and another man came up to me, and stopped me, and asked what I was and where I was going—I said I was a plasterer—soon after the prosecutor came by—they asked him for a light to light a pipe—he crossed on to the pavement, and while there he complained of the prisoner putting his hand in his pocket—I went to look for a policeman, but could not see one—I saw the prosecutor go round the corner, and the prisoner and his colleagues following him for about sixty yards, and when I came up to them he was down on the pavement—I went up to pull the prisoner off him—he was holding his arms while the others were searching his pockets—I caught him by the collar of his coat—he aimed a tremendous blow at me, but I avoided it; it only knocked my hat off, and while I was picking it up two policemen came up—I am confident the prisoner is the person that had the prosecutor on the ground—he was caught; the others got away.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you hear any words or quarrelling between them? A. No; I heard the prosecutor sing out "Murder" and "Robbery" while he was on his back in the road, and I sang out police and robbery also.

JOSEPH WILLIAM TODD . I am a joiner, in Marlborough-road, Chelsea—as I was going home, about half-past I, on this morning, I heard cries "Police," and saw the prisoner and another man with the prosecutor on the

ground kicking him—I am sure he is one of the men—I never lost sight of him—when the constables came up they ran off, and the prisoner was taken.

Cross-examined. Q. Was he sober or drunk? A. He seemed to run very well—I should not think he had been drinking.

WILLIAM MC GITTIGEN (Policeman). On the night in question, I heard cries of "Police!"—when I got up I saw three men lying on the road; the prisoner was one of them—as I came near them they got up, and two of them ran away—I followed them into Princes-street—the prisoner then threw himself in a doorway—I laid hold of him—he said, "All right master; I will go with you quietly"—he went a few yards quietly—he then kicked at me, and struck at me several times, trying to get away—I was obliged to knock him down to secure him—when we got a little further he said he would show me what a leg could do, and he commenced kicking me violently and assaulting Sergeant Young—we got the better of him at last, and he was taken to the station.

Cross-examined. Q. Was he drunk or sober? A. Quite sober.

GUILTY .**— Fifteen Years' Penal Servitude.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1204
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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1204. ARCHIBALD HAMBLIN LIVINGSTONE COLE (22) , Feloniously forging and uttering an order for 603l. with intent to defraud.

MESSRS. SLEIGH and GIFFARD conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM WHEELER . I am clerk to Messrs. Willis, Percival, and Co., bankers—Messrs. Stillwell and Co. keep an account with us—on 24th May, 1861, a person applied to me at the bank for a cheque-book for them, which I delivered—I have here an entry, in our book, made by me at the time—I do not recollect the person to whom I delivered it—I have seen the prisoner coming from Messrs. Stillwell's—the letter of the cheque-book was "B," and the Nos. of the cheques 3,936 to 4,055—I should not deliver a cheque-book to a stranger.

Cross-examined by MR. ORRIDGE. Q. If a stranger brought a written order, I suppose you would deliver it to him? A. Yes—all the entries in this book are not mine, but this particular one is.

CHARLES BROOK WOODCOCK . I am a clerk to Messrs. Willis, Percival and Co.—on 27th May, 1861, I cashed this cheque (produced)—I gave for it a 500l. note, No. 4,556, dated 13th February, 1861, and a 100l. note, No. 21,388, dated 10th January, 1861—the prisoner resembles the person who presented the cheque, but I can't say distinctly it was him after such a lapse of time.

Cross-examined. Q. When you say the prisoner resembles the person, do you mean generally? A. Yes; it was a young man—at that time I was in the habit of seeing clerks of Messrs. Stillwell's for various purposes, and I believed at the time he came to the counter that he was in Messrs. Stillwell's employ, or I should not have cashed a cheque of that amount so readily—I would not swear that the prisoner is the person.

RICHARD ADYE BAILEY . I am a clerk in the Accountants office in the Bank of England—I produce a 500l. note, No. 4,556, dated 13th February, 1862, and a 100l. note, No. 21,388, dated 10th January, 1861—those notes were changed for gold on 27th May, 1861, in the name of Stillwell, Arundel-street.

WILLIAM GEORGE HACKMAN . I am a clerk in the Bank of England—I paid the gold for the notes produced on 27th May, 1861—I have the book here in which I made the entry.

Cross-examined. Q. This is a general entry, "Stillwell, two notes, 600l.?" A. Yes—there is no entry of the numbers of the notes, but I wrote the name at the back of the two notes, which identifies them—there is no such thing as a 600l., note.

GEORGE WILLIAM SKYRING . I am a partner in the firm of Stillwell and Co., Navy agents, of Arundel-street—in 1861 we kept an account at Willis and Percival's—the prisoner was a clerk in our employ—he left in November, 1860—about six months after he left we received this note from him, in May, 1861, (this was a note requesting the loan of 5l., and stating that he was penniless)—I am well acquainted with the prisoner's handwriting—this cheque, for 603l., in not signed by me or by my authority—I believe it is signed by the prisoner, and filled up by him—I also believe the "Stillwell, Arundel-street," written on the top of these notes, to be his writing—we did not receive the cheque-book that the witness has spoken of.

Cross-examined. Q. How many partners have you? A. Five; all active—I know about this cheque-book, because I inquired—I suppose I should not of necessity know of every cheque-book that came to the house—the prisoner was about four years in our employment—within about nine months of his leaving he conducted himself well—some little time before he left he had a months' leave of absence to study for the Civil Service examination—that was in the summer of 1860—I am not sure whether he went up to be examined—I heard from him that he did.

JOHN KEMPSHAW . In May, 1861, I kept the Queen's Arms, Kilburn-gate—somewhere about that time, somebody very much like the prisoner, came to my house—I could not swear to him—he did not give any name—he only stopped two or three days—while there he gave me a leather bag to take care of—it contained 400 or 500 sovereigns, I think—I thought I saw that same young man in the city twelve months ago, and I told the officer so—he went to the races, and I served him with the hamper—I saw that same party at the races—he was in the next trap to me, with a young female dressed very nicely—next morning I went with him to buy a portmanteau in Oxford-street—he said he was going abroad, and I advised him to put his money somewhere or else he would lose it.

Cross-examined. Q. You say you saw that same person in the city twelve months ago? A. I thought I did in Cheapside, but the officer said it could not have been him, because he had had two years' imprisonment abroad.

JOHN MATTOS . I am an interpreter and courier, and live at 21, Bear-street, Leicester-square—about the middle of May, 1861, I made the acquaintance of the prisoner at a restaurant—he spoke to me about accompanying him abroad, and I went to Paris with him as an interpreter—a lady accompanied us—I stayed there four days—it was after Epsom races—I carried a leather bag to Paris for him—he handed it to me at the station to take care of for him—we three had a carriage to ourselves—there was plenty of money in the bag—it was all gold, and a cheque-book—the day I left him I counted 320 or 330 sovereigns, and previous to that he had changed a good deal—he said he wanted to see how much money he had left, because he had been spending so much during the time he was in Paris with this lady, and in his own debauch, and I went into his room, and counted it by twenties, as he did, at his request—soon after that he paid me for me services, and I returned to town—he travelled under the name of Livingstone—I had previously known him by the name of Cole—I called him Mr. Cole, and he said, "No, Livingstone is my name," and I got cards printed for him in the name of Livingstone.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you know that he had been in a, merchant's counting-house for some time? A. No; I met him as a gentleman, and knew no otherwise—he called me to assist in counting his money—he was perfectly sober—I was paid about 6l. or 7l. for my services—the prisoner paid my railway fare, and paid for me while I was in Paris—that was the agreement—my regular charge when I go with a gentleman is ten shillings a day and my expenses paid, and if they choose to be liberal with me I take it—I have acted as courier for three or four gentlemen—the last time I was in Paris, previous to going with the prisoner, was with the Hon. Mr. Archdeacon—that was in 1855—Mr. Archdeacon lived in Grosvenor-square—I don't know the number—I met him at the railway, and went with him, and was three mouths away—he engaged me at the Foreign Couriers' office, in Warwick-street—I have not had any engagement since I went with the prisoner in 1861, but I have bad engagements about the courts in London; at the small police-courts, Marlboro'-street, Bow-street, and about there—I have acted three or four times as interpreter—the last time was at Bow-street, about a year or so ago, in the case of a Spaniard on a charge of begging—the police-inspector employed me—since then I have been living on my means—I have 100l. a year from my father, who lives at Kingston, Jamaica—it is paid to me quarterly, through Mr. Cocks, of the Jamaica Copper Mine Co.—the last payment I received was about two weeks ago—that is the only means I have—I have been in England all the time since I was in Paris with the prisoner—I have done nothing more for a living—I go to the Derby each year, and to Hampton; not to Ascot—I do not go much to the theatre—I have a free pass to some places of amusement, the Alhambra and the Pavilion—I have tickets for other places—I sometimes have a free admission to a music-hall—Cremorne is a great resort of mine; I sometimes pay to go there—I am not on the free list there, or at the Argyle Rooms, or the Holborn Casino—I go there occasionally—I have a nom de guerre, "Kangaroo"—I am well known by that name at the West End.

THOMAS BROWN . I am a hosier, at 194, Strand—I know the prisoner—in May, 1861, he owed me about 7l. 10s.—he brought me this cheque.

(MR. BARON MARTIN inquired upon what ground this evidence was offered.

MR. GIFFARD tendered it to show guilty knowledge, upon the principle that similar evidence was received in cases of the forgery of bank notes, or uttering counterfeit coin; and also became he should prove that this cheque came from the same book as the one charged in the indictment.

MR. BARON MARTIN was of opinion that upon the latter ground the evidence was admissible, but not upon the former.) This is the cheque the prisoner gave me—I gave him change for it. (This was a cheque for 12l. 19s., letter B, 2,340.

GEORGE WILLIAM SKYRING (re-examined). This cheque was not issued by our firm, or by our authority.

WILLIAM WHEELER (re-examined). These two cheques are out of the book that I delivered to the person on 24th May, 1861—we do not deliver duplicate numbers to different customers.

HENRY WEBB I am a detective officer—in May and June, 1861, I endeavoured to find the prisoner in London—I was not successful in doing so—I traced him as going abroad.

Cross-examined. Q. Was any reward offered? A. No.

JOSEPH HUGGETT . I had a warrant for the prisoner's apprehension abroad—I saw him at Rotterdam in the present month—I saw him go on board a steam-boat bound for, England, and followed him—when we got to sea I

told him who I was, read the warrant to him, and told him he was charged with forging a cheque upon Messrs. Willis, of Lombard-street, for 603l.—he said, "They must prove it."

GUILTY .— Ten Years' Penal Servitude.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1205
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Not Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

1205. JOHN CRAMP (22), and WILLIAM HAYES (30) , Robbery with violence on Michael Brown, and stealing 1 watch, his property.

MR. DALEY conducted the Prosecution.

MICHAEL BROWN . I live at 12, Brewer-green, Westminster, and am a master plumber—on Monday evening, 14th September, about 8 o'clock, I was going down Drury-lane, and a man pushed against me, and tried to catch hold of the chain of my watch—he did not get my watch—I shoved him on one side, and he put his hand to his breast, and walked on one side—I took no more notice, and walked down to the corner of Long-acre, and along Long-acre till I passed Charles-street, when I turned round, and saw the two prisoners, and a short young fellow between them, walking after me—I had a suspicion they were going to rob me, and I looked at them—I walked a little farther on, and in about two minutes Cramp came up and caught hold of the chain of my watch with his right hand—he got the watch out of my pocket, got his left hand behind mine, and got hold of the watch—we had a scramble for it—I caught hold of his sleeve, he gave a pull, broke my hold, pulled the swivel off the chain of the watch, and ran away—I was hallooing out "Police"—I turned to run after him, and was thrown in the street and kicked—I did not take notice of who did that, I was so excited—I ran after Cramp—I did not catch him—a man caught hold of the skirt of his coat at the corner of Charles street, and he broke his hold and stumbled, and lost his cap there, but he escaped—Cramp was in front of me when I was tripped up—it was not Cramp who tripped me up—I went straight into Drury-lane after the man—three or four police came up, and told me I had better go to the station—I went there and explained it—I gave a description of the man—about a week after Hayes was brought to the police-station, and placed with ten men there, and I picked him out—I have no doubt he is the man—I next saw Cramp at the police-station; I have no doubt about him—he was placed with eight men, and I picked him out.

Cross-examined by MR. LANGFORD (for Cramp). Q. The men who first attacked you had nothing to do with the subsequent set of men who attacked you? A. The other man who attacked me was not either of these—I first became excited when the man took my watch out of my pocket, and I ran after him; not the first man; I was not excited then—there was only one man at first, he attempted to take my watch—I next saw Cramp on 17th October—I should not say the struggle occupied five minutes; not so long as that—it took place by a cook's shop, close to St. Martin's Hall—it was dusk—they had just lighted the lamps—Cramp did not speak a word to me—I asked him what he was up to; when he caught hold of my watch first I thought he was an acquaintance of mine, who might have come up and be larking with me, and then it struck me directly, when I saw the watch come out of my pocket, that he had followed me—I knew the first man who pushed against me and attempted my watch was not an acquaintance—I was quite sober—we were very near each other—I gave a description to the police immediately.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY (for Hayes). Q. I believe you walked up and down several minutes at the station-house, looking at fill the men, before you picked Hayes out? A. I did—I had seen both the prisoners

before that night in Drury-lane and Long-acre—I cannot say how long before I had seen Hayes; it might be a fortnight or three weeks when I saw him on the Dials previous to that—I had never spoken to him—it was about 5 in the evening when I saw him before—I don't know who the person was who tripped me up—Hayes is the same man I saw a fortnight before—I did not pick him out at once at the station-house, because I thought there were some more of them concerned in it—I looked at them all round—it was not because I was not sure of him—the inspector did not put any pressure upon me to make me prosecute Hayes—I said I did not want to charge Hayes or anybody else if they would give me my watch back again—I did not want to prosecute anybody—the inspector did not press me to prosecute Hayes—Hayes said he would give me the watch and about 6l. not to press the charge.

MR. LANGFORD. Q. Are you often in that part of the town? I have been in the neighbourhood thirty-five years—I have two houses there—I collect the rents—I had seen Cramp several times in the streets, but not to associate with him.

WILLIAM ACKRILL (Policeman, F 48). From a description I received, I went in search of Hayes, and on the night of 17th, about 10 o'clock, I met him on the Seven Dials—I told him I wanted him for stealing a watch—he said, "Don't get nothing up for me; give me fair play"—I told him he should have fair play—I took him to the station, and placed him among ten other men—the prosecutor came in, looked round the room two or three times, and then picked the prisoner out—I then placed him in the dock—he said, pointing to the prosecutor, "You b—, you want to swear my life away; it is as good as ten years for me"—the prosecutor told the inspector that the watch he had stolen was worth 5l., and Hayes said, "I will give you one worth 6l. if you will go with me, or if Ackrill will go."

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Q. Where were the men placed when he was picked out? A. In the charge-room—I was present during the time the prosecutor was walking up and down—I did not speak to him at all—some of the men were prisoners, and some strangers we met in the street; no police—when Hayes said something to him about giving him in charge, the prosecutor said, "If I had my watch I don't want anything more to do with it"—I did not hear him say so before anything was said about 6l.—I will not swear it was not so—the prosecutor was in the room about two minutes before Hayes was put in the dock; not eight or ten.

JOHN MATTHEWS (Police-sergeant, F 113). From a description I received, I went to look for Cramp, and found him on the morning of 17th October, at 36, Charles-street, Drury-lane—I told him I should take him into custody for robbing a man of a watch in Long-acre, about a month previous—he said, "I know nothing about it"—I took him to the station, and placed him among eight other men in the yard—the prosecutor went into the yard, went up to Cramp, put his hand on his shoulder, and said, "That is the man who stole my watch"—before 14th September I had seen the two prisoners together in the neighbourhood of Drury-lane—I can only speak positively to seeing them once together.

Cross-examined by MR. LANGFORD. Q. Had you seen Cramp at any time between 14th September and 17th October? A. I had—he is a costermonger engaged about there—I received a description of him from Ackrill, not from the prosecutor himself—nothing was said to me at that time about his having been in that neighbourhood thirty years, and having seen Cramp

very often—previous to receiving the instructions from Ackrill, I had seen him one morning in Charles-street.

CRAMP— GUILTY .*— Ten Years' Penal Servitude.


26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1206
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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1206. PHILIP HARRINGTON (30) , Feloniously setting fire to a stack of hay, the property of Edmund Beadle.

MR. DALEY conducted the Prosecution.

ALFRED BEADLE . I am a cabinet-maker, living at Winchmore-hill, Edmonton, with my father—on Sunday, 20th September, about 3 in the afternoon, I heard an alarm of fire—I ran to my father's stack of hay, which was worth about 70l., and found it was on fire—I went and fetched an engine—the hay was the property of my father, Edmund Beadle.

MARTHA VICKERING . I am the wife of William Vickering, and live at Winchmore-hill—on Sunday afternoon, 20th September, about 3, I saw Mr. Beadle's stack on fire—I went to the gate of the field in which the stack was standing—I was the second one that was there—it was on fire at the corner on the side next to the field—I first saw the prisoner about twenty yards from the gate in the road—he came up to the gate and stood a minute and looked, and then got over into the field—the gate was looked—I saw no one else there but him—that was just after the fire.

JAMES PERKINS . I am a gardener—on Sunday, 20th September, about 3, I went to Mr. Beadle's hay-stack, it was on fire—I got over the gate of the field and went up to the stack—I did not see any one there then—after I came back from the fire I got over the gate again, and saw the prisoner in the road, close to the gate—he said nothing at all—he went with me to my cottage to get some pails—he then came back with me and assisted me in carrying water, and afterwards assisted at the engine.

JOHN SCRASE (Policeman, N 39). From information I received I apprehended the prisoner on this Sunday evening—I said I should charge him on suspicion of setting fire to the stack—he denied it—I took him to the police-station—when he had been there about an hour, from something that was told me, I brought him out of the cell—I told him I had heard that he wished to make a statement—he said, "Yes"—he made a statement which I took down in writing—I told him I should do so (read), "Police-station, Southgate, half-past 11 P.M. September 20th, 1863,—I wish to state that I went behind the hay-stack that was on fire to light my pipe, because it was so windy. After I had lighted my pipe I threw the match down on the side of the rick, and the rick caught fire. I tried to put it out several times with my hand and cap, but could not do it."

Prisoner. It is all false, that is no statement of mine whatever—it is a statement of his own making—a man would not stop and work about a place after he had set fire to it—I was merely passing the place in search of work.

WILLIAM SINCLAIR (Policeman N 462). I was at the station where the prisoner was locked up—he knocked several times at the cell door, and I went to him—he made the statement to me that was taken down by the sergeant—I went and told the sergeant, and he came and wrote it down—I was there at the time.


NEW COURT.—Wednesday, October 28 th, 1863.

Before Mr. Justice Willes.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1207
VerdictGuilty > pleaded part guilty

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1207. WILLIAM SMITH (23) , Feloniously abusing Catherine Bolton, the younger, a girl under the age of ten years. He PLEADED GUILTY to the attempt .— Confined Eighteen Months .

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1208
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

1208. THOMAS LARK (42) , Rape on Ann Eliza Flashman.

MR. THOMPSON conducted the Prosecution, and MR. BEST the defence.


26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1209
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

1209. ANDREW CUNNINGHAM (61) , Indecently assaulting Samuel Sobey . MR. RIBTON conducted the Prosecution, and MR. METCALFE the Defence.


26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1210
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

1210. SAMUEL SOBEY (21) , Feloniously accusing Andrew Cunningham of an indecent assault, with intent to extort money.

MESSRS. METCALFE and KEMP conducted the Prosecution, and MR. RIBTON the Defence.

The prisoner received a good character.GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury on account of his youth .— Eight Years' Penal Servitude.

THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, October 28 th, 1863.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1211
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

1211. WILLIAM STOREY (28) , Stealing a cheese, value 14s. the property of John Batchelor , to which he PLEADED GUILTY . He was also charged with having been before convicted at Westminster on 9th January, 1860.

ALFRED REED (Policeman, H 105). I produce a certificate (read), " Richard Holmes, convicted January, 1860, at Westminster, of stealing eight shawls, having been previously convicted; sentence, Three Years' Penal Servitude."—I was present—the prisoner is the man, Richard Holmes is his right name—I am quite sure he is the same person—I have known him nine years.

GUILTY .**†— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1212
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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1212. EDWARD TOTTERIDGE (28) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Richard Landrey, and stealing therein 2 shirts and other articles, his property.

MR. HASTINGS conducted the Prosecution.

RICHARD LANDREY . I am a draper, at 16, Manchester-street, King's Cross—on the night of 26th September, about half-past 12, I was in my kitchen and I heard some one come in at the front door with a latch key—I then heard some one walking overhead, in the room above, and I ran up stairs without my boots—there was a lamp on the staircase, which was alight—it threw a light all along the passage and into the parlour—when I got to the top of the stairs, on to the landing, I saw the prisoner and another man come out of the parlour—the prisoner had two shirts, a pair of trousers, and some handkerchiefs on his arm, and his companion had a piece of cloth and a coat—I thought they were my two sons at first, and I said, "What are you taking the things out for,"—the prisoner turned round and said, "All right, governor"—I said, "It seems all wrong," and I caught him by the collar, just by the street door—I distinctly saw his features—we struggled together

for some time—they opened the door in the struggle, and got outside—I still held the prisoner—his companion took the piece of cloth which was rolled on a flat board, and struck me violently on the head several times, in fact be broke a few inches of the board off—he held it in both hands, and partially stunned me—my wife then came up to the door, and he ran away—I still kept hold of the prisoner—his coat gave way at the sleeve, he gave me a violent push, I slipped, and he ran away—I jumped on my feet as soon as possible, and followed him—he went down Liverpool-street—I was only a few yards behind him—I raised a cry of "Stop thief" all the way down—I lost sight of him for about a second, when he turned the corner of Abbey-street, and then I saw him caught by a fire-escape man—a constable came up at the same time, and I gave him into custody—I have not the slightest doubt that the prisoner is the man who was in my house—it was a moonlight night, and I saw his features plainly.

JURY. Q. Was his coat torn when you saw him in custody? A. Yes; and I drew attention to that fact when he said he was not the man—I said, "Who tore your coat?" and he said the fire-escape man tore it.

MR. HASTINGS. Q. Was the street door closed? A. It was on the latch, but not bolted, I am quite sure of that—I had not gone down stairs many minutes—my house is in St. Pancras' parish.

Cross-examined by MR. TAYLOR. Q. Do you keep a shop at this place? A. It is not a shop-front, it is a private parlour, which I use as a shop—the street door opens into a passage, and the parlour door is on the left hand as you come in from the street—the stairs are behind, farther away from the street door than the parlour door—the prisoner's side face was to me, and I thought it was my son—it was not five minutes between the time I heard them come in and when I caught them, and it was only a few seconds from the time I came up stairs till I got out into the street—I did not raise a cry till we got outside—I suppose I must have made some noise because my wife came up—I lost the cloth and the coat—the other things I got.

HENRY BROADBRIDGE (Police-sergeant, E 16). On the night of the 27th September, I was in the neighbourhood of Derby-street, heard a cry, ran and found the prisoner stopped by a fire-escape man—I did not see him stopped—Mr. Landrey was there, and he gave the prisoner into my custody for entering his house—I asked the prisoner what he had got in his hand—he said, "Nothing"—I saw this key (produced) projecting through his fingers—I took it from him and tried it, and it fitted the prosecutor's street door—I got these shirts (produced) from the prosecutor.

Cross-examined by MR. TAYLOR. Q. Did you try this key at the prisoner's lodgings? A. No; he did not give me any address—I went to No. 2, Lucy's-buildings, Vine-street, Leather-lane—he did not give me that address—there was no lock on the door there.

MR. HASTINGS. Q. Would not this key suit a great many doors? A. It suited three doors in Manchester-street.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1213
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

1213. JOHN SHOWELL (20) , Stealing 4l. 17s. 7 3/4 d. the moneys of Horace Brooks Marshall, and another, his masters.

WILLIAM GILLWOOD. I live at 13, Pegwell-place, Hertford-road, Kingsland—I am cashier in the employment of Mr. Marshall, newsagent, late of 44, Ludgate-hill, now of 125, Fleet-street—the prisoner was a porter in the same employ—he was there about nine months—on Monday, 7th September, I gave him 4l. 17s. 7 3/4d. to pay for some newspapers at several offices, in the

Strand, and elsewhere—he had a list, I have a copy of it—he was to collect newspapers in as he came back—he did not come back—I did not see him till he was in custody, on 10th September.

Prisoner. Q. Have I not, in the last nine months, three or four times a week, been entrusted with a larger amount of money than this? A. Yes; it may be double the amount—you have always acted uprightly and honestly.

JOHN BAKER (City-policeman, 255). About a month ago I received some information from Mr. Marshall respecting the prisoner, and about twenty minutes past 7 on 15th October I took him into custody, in Farringdon-street—I told him he must go to Fleet-street Station, on a charge of robbing his employers of 5l.—he said, "I lost the money, but I could not run against anybody worse than you, as you know me so well"—I took him to the station—nothing was found on him but a duplicate of a waistcoat, pledged for 3s. 6d.

Prisoner. Q. Did I attempt to elude you at all? A. I saw you first, and then went round to meet you, and you popped round into a public-house—your mother was in there—I saw you coming out of the public-house and I took you in charge then.

The prisoner read a written defence, stating that he had the money safe in a bag in his pocket when he left; that he went into a public-house with a young man he knew, and that after he came out, when he was about to pay for some papers at the publisher's, he found he had lost it; that he was afraid to go back to his master, and intended to go to sea, but altered his mind and came back, and then wrote a letter to his master, in which he offered to pay the money, by having 5s. a week stopped from his wages. The letter being read, stated that the prisoner had lost the money; that he was innocent of stealing, and begged the prosecutor to take him back, and allow him to pay it off weekly.

COURT to MR. GILLWOOD. Q. Was any inquiry made at this publisher's? A. We sent on the same evening to know whether he had paid for them, and they said they had not been paid—I cannot say whether the prisoner saw the publisher or not—no answer was sent to this letter.

Prisoner. The publisher's office is not more than a few yards from my master's place, and my house is not far from that—they are all close together.


26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1214
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > no evidence; Not Guilty > unknown

Related Material

1214. CHARLES SINCLAIR COX (22), and ELIZABETH AYLETT (22), were charged on three indictments, with stealing 15 yards of silk, thirty yards of cloth, 112 handkerchiefs, 13 shawls, 417 yards of silk, and other goods of William Chickall Jay, the master of Cox; to which Cox PLEADED GUILTY . MR. PATER, for the Prosecution, offered no evidence against AYLETT .


26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1215
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > no evidence

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1215. CHARLES SINCLAIR COX , and ELIZABETH AYLETT were again indicted with JAMES FENNER (55) , for stealing 400 yards of silk, 14 shawls, and 70 yards of ribbon, of William Chickall Jay, to which Cox


He received a good character. Recommended to mercy by the prosecutor.

Confined Twelve Months.

MR. PATER offered no evidence against AYLETT and FENNER.—


FOURTH COURT.—Wednesday, October 28 th, 1863.

Before Mr. Commissioner Kerr

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1216
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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1216. JAMES COPPLESTONE (22), and JOSEPH WILLIAMS (21), Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Edward Carter, with intent to steal. MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

EDWARD CARTER . I am a costermonger, of 4, Rose and Crown-gardens, Chelsea—on 2d October, I left home with my wife about 6 o'clock in the evening, and returned a little after 12—in consequence of a communication made to me, I went to the police-station, and found the prisoners there—I went home and found the door of my room burst open, and the window quite open—on leaving home, I had locked my room door; the outer door was open—the house is let out in rooms—I found the drawers open and the key in them, which, when my wife went out, she had put into the pocket of her dress behind the door—I found this knife (produced) under the table—it does not belong to me—the prisoner Copplestone is my brother-in-law—I had seen White before, but I had never allowed him to come there—I do not know what he is; I never saw him do anything—he is not a costermonger.

Copplestone. Q. When I went round at 5 o'clock, did you not say you were both going to the play? A. Yes—I did not say I would not give you any money to get your lodging then, but that you were to come round at 11 o'clock—I did not say 11 o'clock; it was 3 o'clock in the afternoon when your sister gave you your victuals—I did not see you after.

Copplestone. I asked Williams where he was going, he said, "Nowhere." I said, "Come round to my sister's; they promised me some money to pay for a lodging when I got there." I said to Williams, "We must get in somewhere, because the police hunt us about seeing us out so late at night." He said, "What is the use of going there?" I said, "I am going to try and open the window, and stop there until they come home." I was partly drunk; I had been drinking all the afternoon.

COURT. Q. How many people live in the house? A. Two—there are only two rooms in the house; it is a little cottage—a man named Rose lives upstairs, and I live downstairs—I believe Rose was in bed at the time in question—my brother-in-law is not in the habit of coming to my house very frequently—he came for his victuals that day, because he has only just come out of prison, and his sister gave him his victuals.

EDWARD SALISBURY . I had occasion to go to Rose and Crown-gardens on this night for a whip, which I had hidden under a board for safety—I saw the prisoner Williams at the window, with a knife in his hand, and Copplestone standing at the gate—Williams was cutting a piece away—I asked him where Carter was, and he did not make any answer—Copplestone was looking up at the window—he was about five yards from the other man—Copplestone had been drinking—I went to Carter's father-in-law, Mr. Fidler—there was one other cottage near this.


26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1217
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

1217. CHARLES WHITE (21) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of James Drybrough Williams, with intent to steal.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES DRYBROUGH WILLIAMS . I live at 6, Longferry-road, Mile-end, and am a linendraper—on 22d September I went to bed about 10 o'clock—I was the last person up; I secured the windows and doors—I was awakened at about half-past 3 in the morning, by a noise like a hammering at a window, as if a window had been pushed down—I threw up my window and called out, "Police!"—I then saw two men running across from the back of my house towards some vacant land—a constable caught the prisoner, and returned with him—the prisoner said he was standing at the

corner—I afterwards found that the top part of a window-sash had been forced down—the screws and fastenings had been pulled out—nothing had been taken from the inside, but a flower-pot had been removed from the window-ledge.

HENRY ROPER (Policeman, K 426) On the morning of the 23rd September, at about a quarter to 4 o'clock, I was on duty in the Longferry-road—I was standing at the corner of Mr. Jepp's stables, and heard a cry of "Police," and "Thieves"—I saw two men running from the direction of the prosecutor's—the prisoner was one of them—he passed, and before I could get up on an embankment he turned down Jepp's-road about five or six yards, and when he found there was no thoroughfare he stopped—I caught hold of him, and took him back to Mr. Williams—he said he was standing at the corner—I said, "That was only after you found you could get no farther"—I also told him that I had seen him run from the back of the premises—I then took him to the station—I went back and found the window pushed up, and the fastening wrenched off—I found some lucifers on the window-ledge, and some of the same kind in the prisoner's pocket—he would not give any address.

Prisoner's Defence. I was standing at the corner, and two young men ran by. The constable came up, and seeing me standing there, he said, "I think you are one;" and when at the station-house, he said he saw me run from the back of the premises.

COURT to HENRY ROPER. Q. Did you ever lose sight of him? A. No—there was no one else in the road.


26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1218
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

1218. MARY ANN DARTON (49) , Feloniously wounding Henry James Olave, with intent to do him some grievous bodily harm.

MR. BESLEY conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY JAMES OLAVE . I am a shoemaker, of 5, Harrison's-buildings, Whitechapel—I married a daughter of the prisoner, and my wife has some brothers and sisters—the prisoner has again married a man named John Darton, who is not the father of those children—on the 25th of September, in consequence of something said to me, I went to where John Darton lives—he was kicking my wife's brother, Bill Saunders, up against the closet door—the prisoner was in the back room and could see what was going on, as the window looks into the yard—Saunders is nineteen—my wife took her brother away, and I held Jack in the yard—he offered to fight me, and called me "poor dog," and all the names he could lay his tongue to—he said he would give me three weeks, and fight for 1l.—after that was settled, we were all out in the court for about five minutes. I was standing next Darton, and my wife was next me—he immediately laid hold of my wife and began pulling her under the window where the prisoner was—he was kicking her and pulling her by her hair—I caught hold of her to try to get her away, and the prisoner leaned out of the window and caught hold of me by my hair—she lifted me off my feet down into the yard, which has two steps to go down—she then picked up a wash-hand basin and heaved it with great force, and cut the top of my head—I was attended at the police-station by the divisional surgeon.

Cross-examined by MR. HORRY. Q. Was the prisoner in an upper room above the yard? A. Yes—it was in the back yard; you go through a back door to it—I live six houses off—I did not go into the yard, but I was in the yard when she hit my head—a wash-hand basin was shied out of the window and also a paint-pot—my wife was in there before me—the window is about

five feet from the back door—there were one or two persons there, who interfered, besides Saunders and my wife and myself—the officer saw it done—there were a number of people in the court looking on—a Mrs. Dawes was in the back room—I did not see Mrs. Williams there—I did not do anything against Darton—I do not know of the son doing anything; if he did, it was done before I came—I did not see a knife in his hand—there was something said about his having a knife in his hand, but I did not see it—when I first went into the yard, I saw Saunders there—when the basin was thrown, he was close by, outside the door of the court—Darton was not upon the ground—I did not take hold of him—I only had my wife by the arm—there was a John Saunders also—I can take my solemn oath that Darton was not on the ground under me at the time this basin was thrown out.

MR. BESLEY. Q. How soon after you were pulled out of the yard did you receive the blow with the basin? A. Immediately—the basin came on my head from above me.

COURT. Q. Had there been a good deal of drink? A. It was drink—John Darton was not intoxicated.

JAMES ROLPH . I am divisional surgeon to the police—I first saw Olave at the station; his face was covered with blood, and it was on his clothes as well—he had an incised wound an inch and a half long, over the left parietal bone—it was a superficial wound, the depth being inconsiderable in that position—I dressed it, and saw him next day—I did not attend him afterwards—he never came to me.


26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1219
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

1219. ALFRED EDWARD POUNTNAY , was indicted for wilful and corrupt perjury.

MESSRS. GIFFARD and MARKLY conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY WATTS . I am senior clerk and record-keeper in the Vicar-General's Office, Doctors' commons—I recollect, on the 19th August, the prisoner coming there to obtain a marriage-licence—I asked him his name, and the name of the lady; whether he was of age, and whether she was of age—he said he was of age, and a bachelor, and the lady was of age, and a spinster—I asked him his place of residence—he said, "Bridge-street, in the City of London"—I then filled up this form of affidavit—I then took him before Dr. Robinson, the surrogate of the Vicar-General of the Archbishop of Canterbury, who administered the oath.

COURT. Q. Is he appointed by any writing? A. No, it is a verbal appointment.

MR. MARKLY. Q. Was the oath administered to the prisoner in your presence? A. Yes—before he took it the affidavit was signed in my presence—it was read over by me to him.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Is Dr. Robinson the surrogate here? A. He is. (The affidavit was dated 19th August; it stated that the prisoner appeared and prayed a licence for the solemnization of matrimony in the parish church of St. Bride, between himself and Elizabeth Evans Crossley, a spinster, aged twenty-one years and upwards; and made oath that there was no legal impediment to the marriage, and that he had resided in the said parish for the last fifteen days.)

WILLIAM ROBINSON . I am surrogate of the Vicar-General of the Archbishop of Canterbury—I administered the oath to Alfred Edward Pountnay.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Have you any special recollection of the individual? A. Certainly not.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. You administered the oath to the person, whoever it was, who swore that affidavit? A. Yes; my name is down—it was signed before it was brought to me—I know I administered the oath by my own writing—the form is, that he knows the contents of the affidavit and believes the same to be true—the Vicar-General grants the licence upon ascertaining that the affidavit has been duly sworn.

HENRY SMITH . I am parish-clerk at St. Bride's church, Fleet-street—I produce the marriage register of that parish, and also a licence—I obtained the licence from the person who is mentioned here, Alfred Edward Pountnay—I cannot very easily identify him—undoubtedly it was the same person who signed the register—he was married upon this licence—I gave the young lady away.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Are you the father to a great many ladies? A. More than I should liked to have kept as my daughters.

HENRY WATTS (re-called). This is a genuine licence, granted by the Vicar-General upon the production of the affidavit which was read.

WILLIAM HATCH CROSSLEY . I had a daughter, Elizabeth Evans Crossley, who was born on 18th July, 1845—in consequence of some communication I called on the prisoner and his father on the 18th August last in Ely—I said I understood the prisoner was engaged to my daughter; that it was very much against my wish, an my daughter was only eighteen years of age the 19th of last July—I told him that if he did not break off the engagement I should take my daughter home—she was then living with her grandmother—I am a widower—I have two other daughters, of the ages of sixteen and seventeen—I permitted my daughter Elizabeth to live with her grandmother because the old lady was left alone, and we thought it would be company for her—I saw her frequently, mostly twice a week, sometimes three or four times—the prisoner said nothing to me as to whether the acquaintance was continuing or not—the only reply he made was, "I love her"—I did not give my consent to the marriage; it was very much against my consent—I was not aware that she had left her grandmother's house—she is entitled to one-third share of 400l.—that becomes absolutely hers when she is twenty-one years of age.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you know for a period of two years that the prisoner was paying his addresses to this young lady? A. I did not—when I found he was acquainted with my daughter I took her home to break off the acquaintance, because I did not wish it to result in marriage—there was no talk of marriage—I found out that two years and a half ago; my daughter was then only sixteen yearn old—she was very young when she went to her grandmother; I cannot say how old she was—the grandmother's name is Elizabeth Evans—my daughter was christened, "Elizabeth Evans Crossley"—from the time she went there she was educated and brought up by her grandmother—I had never been asked between the time I first heard of the acquaintance, and the marriage, to give my consent to it—my daughter was not present at the interview I had with the prisoner on 18th of August—I saw her upon that day—she never said to me that she loved him to devotion, and nothing would cause her to separate from him but death—I told Pountnay if it was not broken off I would take my daughter away; I did not say anything about locking her up—I said I would take her home—I did not say I would take care he did not have access to her for two years; I told him that he should not come on

my premises—I did not know as a fact that the grandmother was favourable to the marriage; she always told me they were not acquainted—I do not know that she gave them the money to get married—she said she did give it but I do not know whether she did or not.

CHARLES VACHER CLEMENTS . I am a letter-sorter at Ely—I have known the prisoner several years—I know his writing—I believe this in the marriage register to be his—I am employed in the same office with him—I was with him from about half-past 11 in the evening until about 1 in the morning—he was there previously to 19th August attending to his duties, and I was there also—he was there for a fortnight before that date every night, with perhaps one exception—I knew where he lived in Back-hill, Ely, at his father's house.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know Mrs. Evans' house? Q. Yes—I believe he used to go there courting the young lady whom he has now married—I do not know the grandmother personally—I have heard she favoured the match between them—the prisoner frequently told me about it.

GEORGE ELLIS . I am employed in the Post-office at Ely, and was so for some time previously to 19th August—I saw the prisoner there every night except one for a fortnight previously to that date, and frequently in the daytime—I believe he was away one night ill.

The COURT was of opinion that the first Count could not be sustained, as that part of the affidavit appeared to him merely the recital of a description, and did not form part of the actual declaration.

COURT to HENRY WATTS. Q. Did you, or did you not, read over the affidavit to the prisoner? A. I did; it is always my practice to do so—I did not call his attention particularly to anything—I just read it over, having taken the information that he had resided for fifteen days in the parish—we require to know where the marriage is to be celebrated before we give a licence—then we ask the question whether the party has resided there for fifteen days.


OLD COURT.—Thursday, October 29 th, 1863.

Before Mr. Baron Martin.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1220
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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1220. WILLIAM PEKKINS (23) was indicted for feloniously killing and slaying Robert Prendeville . MR. LILLEY conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN PAGE MOON . I knew the deceased, Robert Prendeville—on 2d October I saw him and the prisoner in a public-house where I assisted—next morning, about a quarter-past 9, I went up to the room where the deceased had gone to bed—after some time I burst open the door, and found him dead—I immediately went for Mr. Hall, the surgeon.

Cross-examined by MR. E. T. SMITH. Q. How long had you known the deceased? A. About eighteen months—I saw him every day—he drank a great deal of beer—I never saw him "incapable"—I have seen him what you might term "boosey"—he was rather irritable, yet a good temper—I have known the prisoner two or three years—I should say he was a peaceable man.

RICHARD KING . I live in Princes-street, Whitcomb-street—I was in company with the deceased on the evening of 2d October in the taproom of the Hand-in-Raquet, from about 8 o'clock till half-past 11—between half-past 9 and a quarter to 10, he and the deceased were playing at a game called cottam—a piece of bread was thrown at the deceased by somebody—he said the

first one that threw it he would have a row with them—Perkins could not have thrown it, from the position he was in—after that they continued to play for about a quarter of an hour; at the end of that time there was a few words between them—the deceased said, "If you come outside I will accommodate you"—they went out, and went up Orange-street with several others, and they had three or four rounds—the deceased fell about twice—he fell forwards; I did not see him fall back—this continued about seven or eight minutes—a young man named Broom picked up the deceased and took him away, saying he would not let him have any more of it—they all returned to the Hand-in-Raquet, and the deceased and the prisoner again played together at cottam—I remained there until the house was closed—during that time the deceased went about his usual business; he put up the shutters—I did not hear him complain of being injured—he was pot-boy at the house—he was very good friends with the prisoner afterwards, and they shook hands—after he had been out he came back with a bit of plaster on his left eye; that had not been there when he went out—he was pretty free as to drink—when they went out to fight they were both very nigh intoxicated—the road on which this took place was a macadamised road, but all level—the rounds took place in the middle of the road.

Cross-examined. Q. Were there a good many people in the room at the time the deceased thought the prisoner had thrown the crust at him? A. About eight or nine—I had known the deceased fourteen or fifteen years; his habits were pretty free; he liked a drop of beer—he was no spirit drinker—I have seen him half-and-half, not often—he was rather hottempered—he was not so bad on this night that he could not stand; he staggered; and the prisoner was about the same.

JAMES GREEN . I live at 3, Cartwright-street, Westminster—I was at the Hand-in-Raquet on 2d October—there was a little quarrel between the prisoner and deceased—the deceased said if he would come outside he would accommodate him—they did not go out directly; they played at cottam in the meantime—they had three rounds in the road—I saw the prisoner strike at the deceased; whether he struck him or no I could not say—I saw them close at the last round, and the deceased fell in front on his head or face—they afterwards returned to the house—I remained there till it closed—the prisoner came in with a little bit of plaster over his eye; and he said that was all that was the matter with him—I believe he did his work as usual till the house was shut up, about half-past 11.

FREDERICK HALL . I am a surgeon in Jermyn-street—on Saturday morning, 3d October, about thirty-five minutes past 9, I was called to the Hand-in—Raquet, and saw the deceased in his room—he was lying on his back on his left side, partly undressed—he had then been dead about four or five hours—he had vomited, and he had also been purged—I made a post-mortem examination on 6th October—there was a slight contusion over the left eyebrow, with a small piece of plaster—the under lining of the scalp was very much congested with blood, and thickened posteriorly, as though from a fall—the dura mater on the left side was distended in front with a large mass of dark coagulated blood, weighing about four ounces—the vessels of the brain generally were very much congested—the brain substance itself was healthy—the cause of death was the extravasation of blood on the brain, from a rupture of one of the veins of the anterior portion of the membrane—that would probably result from some act of violence; that corresponded to the injury over the loft eye-brow: a fall or blow would be likely to cause that

—if the man was of intemperate habits, and in a state of intoxication at the time, that would considerably facilitate such a result.

Cross-examined. Q. From the appearance of the brain when blood is extravasated is it not very difficult to ascertain whether an injury is caused by a blow or a fall? A. It is; either might cause it, or it might result from a combination of both—the deceased was about twenty-five or twentysix—I heard when I reached the house that he had been fighting, and that they found him dead in bed—my assistant was with me at the post-mortem examination—I made notes—I have not looked at them since—the heart was rather softer than it ought to have been—the liver was healthy, and also the stomach, but quite empty—I could not draw any conclusion as to his habits from the appearance of the stomach—the organic structures were exceedingly healthy—the wound on the forehead was about half an inch in length—it was a contused abraded wound, very superficial looking—I do not regard the wound as the cause of death, but the shock received in the blow or fall ruptured the veins—I have heard the evidence—I do not think death could have arisen from apoplexy, in one so young—extravasation of blood on the brain may be caused by vomiting alone—stupor, always accompanies effusion; in this case it must have been gradual—the probability is, that his intemperate habits brought on chronic congestion of the brain, and then, after the fall which caused the injury, the excitement, and probably the act of going up stairs might have increased the escape of blood, and he was seized with a sudden kind of stupor; nausea and vomiting supervened; and then, in all probability, he fell bock in a fit as he was undressing.

MR. LILLEY. Q. Would a fall upon a macadamised road be sufficient to produce the injury? A. It would; a drunken man would fall more heavily than a sober one, there being no power of resistance.

GUILTY .—Strongly recommended to mercy.— Confined Four Days.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1221
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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1221. JAMES GOODWIN (17), and JOHN NICHOLSON (20) , Feloniously forging and uttering an order for the payment of 15l. with intent to defraud. MESSRS. GIFFARD and KEMP conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM HOCKIN . I am a porter at Doctors' Commons—on the morning of 30th September, Goodwin came to me at Paul's-chain, and told me he wished me to go to the National Bank, and take a cheque and get it cashed—this (produced) is the cheque he gave me—I was to bring the money to him, or to Mr. Newman, I understood him, at Mr. Fox's seat at the Court of Probate—I went to the bank in Old Broad-street, presented the cheque, and received some money in a bag—by the instructions of the officers of the bank, I returned with the bag of money to Doctors' Commons—I saw Goodwin there against the Court of Probate—he crossed over to me, and I gave the bag into his hands according to directions—the policeman then came, and took him into custody—I had never seen him before to my knowledge.

Cross-examined by MR. ORRIDGE (for Goodwin). Q. Are you sure about the name; was it Newman or Goodwin? A. I understood him Newman—I had no occasion to go to Fox's seat—he met me in the street, and I banded him the bag.

MOORE. I am a cashier at the National Bank, 13, Old Broad-street—Mr. William Tatham keeps an account at that bank—the cheque produced was brought to me by Hockin—I asked him a few questions, and

ultimately sent for a policeman—this cheque was taken from a cheque-book supplied to Mr. Tatham.

JAMES GOODWIN . I live in Burton-street, Burton-crescent—I am the father of Goodwin—after he had been taken in custody I saw him in Newgate—he made a communication to me—I know the prisoner Nicholson—I have seen him come to my house—he came there on the morning that my son was apprehended, the 1st October, about twenty minutes after 8—my wife asked him where my son was, and begged him to tell her—he said he did not know where he was—she said he must know something about it as the detective has been there and searched his desk—I believe that was all he said for he turned round, and left the room—he appeared greatly excited.

Cross-examined by MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Nicholson had been to school with your son, had he not? A. Yes; my son lived with me—for the last two years ho was in the employment of Mr. Lerew, the auctioneer—he has always been a good and attentive boy—he has lived with me continually, and never been away from home—I never saw anything improper in his conduct before this—he is seventeen years old—he is my only son—I had on several occasions, through my wife, forbidden Nicholson my house—I had not the opportunity of seeing him—he was constantly coming there after my son—when I saw my son in Newgate I asked him about this cheque—he told me he had received it from Nicholson, and went by his instructions—he said that Nicholson owed him a sovereign, and promised to pay him; I suppose from the money; he did not say that—he said that Nicholson looked in the Directory and told him to go in the name of Fox, and without looking himself in the Directory to see whether it was right, he went—I believe that is the address that he afterwards took the officer to in Lincoln's-inn—he said he did not know it was a forgery; that Nicholson wished him to send a porter for the money; not to go himself—he did not say why.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY (for Nicholson). Q. Did you see the account in the newspapers of your son being charged with this offence? A. Yes; I did; that was the morning after Nicholson came—I had a very great objection myself to Nicholson coming—he was in the habit of seeing a good deal of my son—I don't know what time my son usually left his office, or what time he got home, for I am not at home till very late—I am a cabdriver—T have not known him out all night—his usual time for being out was till about 7 or 8 o'clock—he once went to a music-hall with a young man, a lodger of mine—that is the only time I have known of—I generally go out with my cab about half-past 8 in the morning, and return, from 12 to 1 or 2—I use two horses—I change them from 3 to 5 o'clock, when I have the opportunity—my son would not be at home at that time—I get home with my second horse sometimes at 12 or 1, after taking fares from the theatres—my son has always been at home when I have got home—he slept in the next room to me—I have no other children.

WILLIAM CARTER . I am a clerk to Mr. Tatham, solicitor, of 17, Old Broad-street—Nicholson was also a clerk in his service—we were the only two clerks—I remember my master going out of town about a week before this matter happened—on Tuesday evening, 29th, Nicholson asked me to come early on Wednesday—he gave me no reason—he came next day about 11—he left again about a quarter past 11, and said he was going to Doctors' Commons—that was not on office business—I asked whether he should be there next day—he said he should, but he was not—in consequence of what I saw in the newspapers next day, I looked in one of Mr. Tatham's drawers in which the cheque-book was kept—I found it unlocked—the cheque produced

has been taken out of that cheque-book—some time ago the prisoner asked me if I could sign Mr. Tatham's name—I tried once, and I saw him try four or six times—I cannot form any judgment whose writing the signature to this cheque is, but it very much resembles those that I saw Nicholson do that day—a person named Fox is a client in our office—he lives at Dublin.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Q. Are there many Mr. Fox's connected with the business of the office? A. Only know one that I know of—I have only been in Mr. Tatham's service since 2d February last—I have never had any complaints from him—he never made any complaint to me respecting a shilling that I had kept from the Queen's Bench office—it was sixpence—I did keep a fee of sixpence which I ought to have paid for a search there—I knew I had not paid for the search—I told him that I had—I have once imitated handwriting—I imitated my late master's many times—I could write his signature so that he himself would not know that it was not his, be told me so—I told Nicholson that.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Are you still in Mr. Tatham's service? A. Yes; he did not know about the sixpence—it was the first time I had been there for the sort of thing, I had to go to the Judges' Chambers to swear an affidavit, and when I got back they asked if I had paid for the search, and I said "Yes," and I had not—I did not pay for it afterwards—I gave in the affidavit I had sworn, and they said, "Is that all?" and I said, "Yes"—I had not touched Mr. Tatham's drawer until I looked to see whether it was locked—I had nothing to do with the abstraction of that cheque—I did not know that it was gone until I looked in the drawer—I do not know Goodwin.

WILLIAM TATHAM . I am a solicitor, I keep an account at the National Bank—this cheque was not written by me or by my authority—when I left town I put my cheque-book in a drawer in my table, to which I had a special lock for the purpose—it was fastened when I left town on the Saturday previous to the Wednesday on which the cheque was presented—I have since looked at the drawer—I found that I could lock it with the proper key, but I could not afterwards draw it from the lock, it had evidently been tampered with by some false key—Nicholson had been my clerk about twelve months—he knew where I kept my cheque-book.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Q. Do you know that he had been seven years in other employment when be came to you? A. I forget at this moment—I know I made inquiries at the time he first came—I think he came with a satisfactory character—I found that his father was a respectable man, and had been managing clerk in an office—during the twelve months he was with me he performed his duties perfectly to my satisfaction—the other clerk would probably know where my cheque-book was—I made no secret of where I kept it, only I took care to lock it up.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Would Nicholson be absent on the 30th September on any office business that you know of? A. None that I know of—perhaps I ought to state as to the matter about the sixpence, I do not believe there was any moral impropriety on the part of Carter.

ROBERT PACKMAN . I am one of the detective officers of the City-police—about 11 o'clock on Wednesday, 30th September, I went to the National Bank, in Old Broad-street—I found the witness Hockin there—I gave him a bag of copper for the purpose of handing to the person who had sent him, and followed him to Doctor's Commons—about the middle of Knight Rider-street I saw Goodwin cross over the street to Hockin, and receive the bag—he commenced untying it—I went up to him and asked him if he was

the person who had given the porter a cheque for 15l. to cash at the National Bank that morning?—he said he was—I then told him that I was a, policeofficer, that the cheque was supposed to be a forged cheque, and asked him who he received it from, or how he came in possession of it—he said he received it from a person of the name of Mr. Cox, No. 5, New-square Lincoln's-inn—I asked if he was employed by Mr. Cox—he said, no; he had received the cheque to get cashed—I then took him to New-square—I asked him in what part of the Square No. 5 was—he could not tell me—I took him to No. 5, looked at the names, and could find no person of the name of Cox—I asked him what floor or part of the house Mr. Cox occupied—he said he did not know—I took him into one of the offices and inquired for Mr. Cox, and no such person was known there—I then said to Goodwin, "What is the good of telling us a lot of falsehoods, I shall not allow you to go"—he said, "What could I say?"—I told him he must consider himself in custody for attempting to defraud the National Bank of 15l.—on the way to the station he said, "I did not write the cheque"—on Wednesday night, 30th September, about half-past 10, I was in the neighbourhood of Goodwin's house, in Burton-street, and saw Nicholson walking to and fro in front of it, four or five times, apparently looking to see some person—I had previously seen him about 7 o'clock, in front of Goodwin's employer's premises, in Cardington-street, Hampstead-road, walking to and fro—about half-past 10 the following night I met him in Holborn—I told him I was a policeofficer, and I was informed that he had given a particular friend of his, of the name of Goodwin, a cheque for 15l. to get cashed at the National Bank, Old Broad-street, that that cheque was supposed to be a forged cheque, and I asked him from whom he received it, or how he accounted for the possession of it—he said, "I know nothing about any cheque"—I said, "You must consider yourself in custody for being concerned with Goodwin in attempting to defraud the National Bank of 15l"—he asked me if Goodwin was out on bail—I told him he was not—I asked if he was aware Goodwin was in custody—he said he had seen it in the paper that morning.

Cross-examined by MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Did you see Goodwin's father at his house on the night you took him in custody? A. No; I saw his mother—it was not in consequence of a communication from her that I took Nicholson—I saw Goodwin's father before taking Nicholson—it was from what he told me and other circumstances that I took him.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Q. Did any one go with you to Goodwin's? A. Yes; an officer named McLeod—we were in plain clothes—Goodwin usually left work about 7 o'clock, so his employer told me—it was at that time I had seen Nicholson there—I am quite sure that Goodwin had commenced to untie the bag before I took him into custody.

MARY ANN GOODWIN (examined by MR. ORRIDGE). The prisoner is my son—up to this time I always found him a good boy.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Q. We have heard that he was schoolfellow with Nicholson? A. Yes; I had forbidden Nicholson the house once or twice—I knew they were intimate—he used to go to the office after my son.

The Court was of opinion that there was no case against Nicholson. Goodwin received a good character from his employer.


26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1222
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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1222. JAMES MCCARTHY (20), JOHN GREENHOE (20), and WILLIAM SOUTHARD (16) . Robbery, with violence, on Giovani Brosio, and stealing a watch, value 3l. his property.

MR. ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution.

GIOVANI BROSIO (through an interpreter). I live at 2, Woburn-court—on the night of 5th October I had returned from Margate, where I had been professionally engaged—I am a musician in the band of the Lincoln's-inn Rifle Corps—about ten minutes after 12 I came through Soho—square into Holborn—I had a piece of paper with me, with the direction of my lodging on it—I met the two boys (Greenhoe and Southard) and gave them the direction to show me Holborn-court—they looked at the direction and told me to come along with them—instead of taking me there they took me in another direction—I don't know the name of the street—the first street they took me into was Arthur-street, and then they took me into another—the tall prisoner (McCarthy) then caught hold of me by the throat, and they took my watch and ran away—I don't know which took my watch, I was insensible, from their having their hands round my throat—my watch had a guard to it, with a bar through my button-hole—they took the guard also—there was a lamp about thirty yards from where this happened—the two I know well, because I saw them when I gave them the direction, and the other one I recognised in the street before he seized me by the throat—I met a gentleman who could speak Italian, and went with him to a policeman I gave him a description of the persons who had robbed me—I went with the policeman to a kitchen where there were eight or nine persons—three of them were playing cards with a stout man—I saw all the prisoners there and pointed them out to the policeman.

Cross-examined by MR. W. J. ABRAM (for McCarthy). Were you sober? A. Quite; I had only one glass of stout all the evening—I do not know who took my watch.

PATRICK DONOGHUE (Policeman, E 79). On the morning of 5th October, I was on duty in New Oxford-street—the prosecutor came to me about a quarter or twenty minutes past 12—he mentioned the word "watch" and made signs that it was gone—I took him to the station, not being able to understand him—I then went with him to ascertain where the watch was taken from him—he took me to the corner of Arthur-street—I asked him in what direction they went—he pointed down Arthur-street, and I went with him—I saw a coffee-shop open and went in—a foreigner was there who understood the prosecutor, and we went together down Church-lane, to a cellar—he pointed down the stairs as the place where the men went—I took him down into the cellar and told the gentleman to look round, and if he saw any of the men to point them out—he looked round but did not point out any one at that time—we went back to the station, and the prosecutor there intimated that he had seen some of the party in the cellar—we went back again with two more constables, and he pointed out the prisoners—I took them into custody—they said they knew nothing about it.

Cross-examined. Q. Were the prisoners there the first time you went? A. I can't say; there were a good many lying and sitting about; eight or nine, or more—I found nothing on them.

Witnesses for the Defence.

DENNIS REARDON . I live at 16, Church-lane, St. Giles'—it is a lodging-house—I have known McCarthy above four years—he has worked for me two seasons at water-carting when I had part of the contract for St. Giles' Parish—I am a carter and contractor—I never heard anything against him—I have heard it muttered from one to another that he has had fourteen days for an assault, but I know nothing of that—I see him every night—he lodges at my house—I remember the night of 5th October, and I know from

the time I came into the kitchin till 1 in the morning he was there listening to a man reading a book, and the other two lads were asleep on a form opposite—I am quite certain he did not leave the place till the police took him out—he was sitting on the same form with me, only two persons from me.

Cross-examined by MR. ORRIDGE Q. What sort of a kitchen is this? A. It is below stairs—my lodgers feed there and lodge upstairs—I saw McCarthy taken away by the police, charged with stealing a watch—I knew he was going to Bow-street next day, and I expected they would send for me, but they did not, and I did not go—I should say there were twenty persons in the kitchen at the time—they all lodge in my place, about forty of them—they pay threepence a night—McCarthy had lodged with me every night for the last four years, with the exception of the time he was in trouble—I paid him half a crown a day when I employed him—I have not had the watering contract this season—I believe he has acted as a linkman some nights, and as a jobber in the day—White, the woman who conducts the house for me, was there at the time, and Graham, a labouring man—they are here—there were various others there, a shoemaker, named Reardon, a man named Green, or Greeney, who was reading the book, and two coaleys: I don't know their names—as long as people pay me their money I don't trouble about their names, and if I did very likely they would not give me their real names—I was playing a game of cards.

MARGARET REARDON . I am servant to the last witness, but am no relation—I know the prisoners—on the night of 5th October, they were all in the kitchen from 10 till 1 o'clock—I was not in the kitchen all the time—I was upstairs; but they could not come out of the kitchen without my seeing them—I was at the top of the stairs that they come up.

Cross-examined. Q. Is your duty to stand at the door? A. I stood there on account of this robbery—the prosecutor came up to me and asked me if I had seen the persons go by—I came up as he was hallooing in the street—I believe the persons that robbed him ran down the bottom of the lane—they did not come into our place—the prosecutor followed them four doors beyond our place, and then returned back with his knife in his hand—I did not see him robbed, but I ran up hearing him halloo out—I saw the prisoners taken away by the police—I did not go to Bow-street next day—I knew almost all the chaps that were in the kitchen that night, but I cannot account for all their names—I could have told you on Saturday or Monday, because then I have all their names down on my slate, when they pay for their lodging, but Sunday is a free night—I don't mean free to any one, but those that lodge there six nights we let have the seventh night free—Greenhoe paid me that night, consequently he had been away one night in the week—he went to sleep on the stool—I know McCarthy, as a costermonger going out with a barrow, for one of my master's tenants next door; and he also worked for my master as a carter—I have lived there ten or twelve years.

JOHN GRAHAM . I am a labourer, and lodge at Mr. Reardon's in Church-lane—I was there on 5th October—I went home about 6 o'clock at night, and did not go out again till 1 o'clock, when I heard the row—I know the prisoners—McCarthy was in the kitchen that night, sitting on the same form I was, listening to a man reading a book—I am sure he was not out of the place between 11 and the time the constable took him out.

Cross-examined. Q. Was he with you from 6? A. Yes—I never saw him out of the house the whole time—I was talking to him from 10 till 1

—I don't know where he was between 6 and 10—there were about eight or nine persons there; it was Sunday night.

PATRICK DONOGHUE (re-examined). I have no recollection of seeing Margaret Reardon there that evening—I think Mr. Reardon told me that the prisoners had been at his house the whole evening.


26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1223
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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1223. ANN HARNETT (23) , Feloniously killing and slaying Joseph Holland MR. COLLINS conducted the Prosecution.

MARY ANN ALLINGTON . I lived with the deceased Joseph Holland, of 2, Smith's-buildings, Bishopsgate-street-without—the prisoner lived in the same house—a few days before 11th October, I had a quarrel with her; she threw some water over me—On Saturday, 12th October, about 12 o'clock, I was with the deceased in my room; the prisoner was going up the passage, and she said she would give it to me when I came out again—the deceased came out to stop me from quarrelling with her, and the deceased struck him in the chest with her two fists, and forced him against a table—she then laid hold of my hair—I got from her and went into my room—the deceased was put indoors after the prisoner had struck him—he was trembling, and said he was very much frightened—he was very well before the prisoner struck him—he was twenty-seven years of age—he was a glass rougher at Messrs. Defries—he went to work next day; when he came back in the evening he was very bad; he was brought home by two men—he said he had thrown up some blood—I did not see him do so—I took him to Devonshire-square Hospital on Monday—he died on the Thursday morning afterwards.

Cross-examined by MR. WOOD. Q. I believe you did not see what took place in the passage? A. No; the prisoner and I had been having some rather severe words there—my husband did not go out of my room again to my knowledge after he was struck—he was not singing songs in his mother's room—he went to work on the Sunday—we were to be married next Christmas—I had never been with him to the hospital before this, and the reason he went then was because he was bad with heaving up water of a morning—I know nothing of his having a rupture—he was trembling, and appeared very much frightened, and shook very much—he did not throw up any blood on the Saturday night—he did after he returned on the Monday.

ESTHER HOLLAND . I am the mother of the deceased, and live at 2, Smith's-buildings—my room is opposite the one occupied by the last witness—on Saturday night, 10th October, I saw the prisoner going through the passage to go up to her room—Allington came out, and the prisoner said she would pay her—the deceased came out and said he would settle her another way, by obtaining a warrant for her—she up with her two hands and crushed him in the stomach, and sent him backwards against the table, and tore his shirt—he came out of doors and was all in a tremble—I said, "What do you tremble so for?" and he said he did not—he looked as white as a corpse—I did not see him strike the prisoner at all—I next saw him on Sunday night, brought home by two men very bad—he complained of pain in his stomach, and had been vomiting blood—no medical man saw him till Tuesday—he brought up blood on Monday night—he was in very good health before this blow.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know anything about his going to the hospital before this? A. No; I never heard him complain of a rupture—it was at 12 o'clock at night that this took place—I had seen him all that afternoon and evening—he was quite solid and sober.

EDMUND PLUMMER . I am a labourer of 2, Fountain-court, Bethnalgreen—on Saturday night, 10th October, I was at the door of the deceased's house when this first happened—Allington was going through the passage into the yard—the prisoner came through and said she owed her something and she would pay her—she went up stairs and came down again and pitched into her—the deceased came out to part them, and the prisoner deliberately made a blow with her two hands, and hit him in the chest, which knocked him down by the door—I picked him up and put him indoors—I then went outside and saw no more—I heard a row inside.

Cross-examined. Q. You did not see him go back against the table? A. No; I was not there then—I had been out with him and Allington and his sister, as far as Whitecross-street, and this occurred as we returned—we had had a pot of ale between four of us—we drank it equal all round—several months ago ho had a fall on a crate, but he made no complaint of it—he kept on with his work.

WILLIAM LANE . I live at 25, Primrose-street, Bishopsgate-street—I work for Defries and Co., and so did the deceased—they are of the Jewish persuasion—it is optional with us to work on Sunday or no—on 11th October the deceased came to work—he remained there up to about 5 in the day, but he did not work at all—he attempted to work, but could not—he was very pale and trembling all day—I advised him to go home—I did not actually see him throw up blood, but I saw it afterwards, and I should think there was about two quarts of black clotted blood—I saw him several times during the day—he was lying about on a form—he came to work again on the Monday morning—he was still very bad, and I sent him home—I advised him to go to the doctor who attends my family, but he did not do so—I was afraid he would have died there and then—I never saw him alive afterwards.

JAMES TOWDRON . I am a labourer, and live at 16, Angel-court, Gravel-lane—I know the deceased—I saw him on Sunday evening 11th October, a little after 5, in Mr. Viall's yard, Gravel-lane—I went up the yard and saw him vomiting blood; I should think he vomited about three pints—I assisted him home—I had known him two or three years—he was a healthy youngman.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know anything about an accident that he had three or four months ago? A. No—I never heard from him that he was subject to a rupture.

ROBERT FOWLER . I am a surgeon of Bishopsgate-street—on Tuesday, 13th October, I was called to attend the deceased at his own residence, 2, Smith's-buildings—he was in bed, propped up—he was in a state of collapse from the loss of a large quantity of blood—I did not see him throw up any, but there was blood hanging about his lips, and there was a large quantity in the chamber utensil by his bedside—I attended him until his death on Thursday morning—I attended the post-mortem examination—from what I heard at the inquest, and from the appearances found after death, my opinion is, that in all probability the blow on the pit of the stomach was the exciting cause of the hemorrhage there from—the appearances were such as a blow would produce—there was a visible rupture, or rather an exhalation from the whole surface.

Cross-examined. Q. Might not that have arisen from some other cause? A. It might—excessive indigestion would produce it in some constitutions; it depends upon the article of diet—any indigestible article to that particular individual might produce inflammation, and that might give rise to

the vomiting of blood—I examined the cavity of the chest and the cavity of the belly—I examined the intestines—I found no signs of rupture.

MR. COLLINS. Q. Would such a blow as you have heard described produce the appearances you found? A. A blow on the pit of the stomach as described by one of the witnesses, might have produced it.

LUTHER HOLDEN . I am assistant surgeon at St. Bartholomew's Hospital—I was with Mr. Fowler at the post-mortem examination—the stomach was in state of acute inflammation; it contained a large quantity of blood—I believe that inflamed state of the stomach was the cause of death—in my opinion that inflamed state was caused by the blow said to have been given on the pit of the stomach.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you not think it possible it might have been caused by excessive indigestion? A. It is possible; but in the highest degree improbable.

MR. COLLINS. Q. One of the witnesses has stated that at the time the blow was struck he turned pale; would that be likely? A. It would be very likely to produce pallor and faintness.

JOHN ADAMS (Police-sergeant). I apprehended the prisoner on Saturday, 17th October.

Cross-examined. Q. Did she seem at all grieved when you took her into custody? A. She did.

GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1224
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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1224. HENRY WESTON (32) , Feloniously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Samuel Mahook, and stealing 130 brooches, and other articles, value 400l., his property.

MR. PATER conducted the Prosecution.

SAMUEL MAHOOK . I am a jeweller, of 100, Oxford-street—I saw the articles produced safe on my premises on Saturday evening, 19th September—they are worth about six guineas—I do not live at my premises—when I arrived there on Monday morning I found the place had been entered, and property carried off to the amount of about 400l.—there was no appearance of violence—I was not the last to leave my premises on the 19th, but I locked up before I left, at 8 o'clock, in an iron safe, all the expensive goods, solid gold chains, bracelets, and such things, and at half-past 8 it is the duty of my young man and the porter to put up the shutters and look the door—the locks appeared to have been tampered with some time ago, but they locked all right.

WALTER HOLCOMB . I am apprentice to the last witness—it is my duty to close the place when I leave—the porter puts up the shutters—I was the last to leave on 19th September—I took the usual precautions to secure the door—I locked it on the outside.

SARAH PLUMMER . I am barmaid at the Allsop Arms 172, Marylebonealley, at the corner of Gloucester-street—I have seen the prisoner before, with others now in custody—he was frequently at the public-house where I am barmaid—on 28th September, he came in and asked me if I wanted to purchase a brooch—I said, "No"—he asked me if I knew any one who did—I said, "No"—he asked me if I would take it, and see if I could find any one to buy it—I took it, but I never offered it to any one for sale—I afterwards gave it to Inspector Hubbard.

Cross-examined by MR. WARTON. Q. I believe you know the prisoner? A. Yes. for six years as a customer at my master's house—I always thought him a respectable man.

MR. PATER. Q. Did you know anything more of him than that he frequented the public-house? A. Nothing more.

ELIZA BEVERLEY . I am the wife of William Beverley, who keeps the Phoenix public-house, 12, Harrow-street—the prisoner brought me two brooches and a pair of earrings on 23d September, and asked me if I would buy them—there was a small locket, I think, also—he said he was in difficulties, and he wanted the sum of 2l. 10s.—I said if he was in difficulties I would let him have the 2l. 10s., but I did not want the articles—he said at first that he had found them—I afterwards sent for him to tell him to come and fetch the things away, for I did not intend to keep them—that was two days afterwards—he said he would take them away—he said at first he had found them, and afterwards said ho found them in a cab—he said he was very sorry I did not intend to keep the things, but he could not give me the money then; he would call again—I did not see him again for three or four days afterwards—he then brought a Scotch pebble brooch, and asked if I would buy it—I afterwards gave it up to the police.

Cross-examined. Q. I suppose he never told you anything else than that he found them? A. No—I have always seen him very respectable and steady—he was something of an ostler in a cab yard.

MR. PATER. Q. Do you know anything more of him than his being a customer at your public-house? A. Nothing more.

ROBERT HUBBARD (Police-inspector, E). From information, I went to the prisoner's lodging, accompanied by a constable, Perry, of the D division—I went up to his apartment, and asked him whether he had been dealing with any jewellery—he said, "No"—I told him I knew he had, and I must take him into custody for being concerned, with others not in custody, in committing a robbery at No. 100, Oxford-street, on 19th September, and stealing some jewellery to the value of 400l.—he said he knew nothing about it whatever—I then ordered Perry to take him down to the station—I remained in the room until Perry returned—during his absence I said to his mother, who was sitting there with him, "Mrs. Weston, you have some brooches that your son gave to you"—she made no answer—I repeated the question, and she took from her dress this brooch, and said it was the only article she had, and her son had given it to her—I afterwards went to Sarah Plummer, and obtained from her this brooch, and these things from Mrs. Beverley—the prisoner said at the station that he had found all the jewellery behind a cab in the stable yard.

CHARLES PERRY (Policeman, D 217). I went with Hubbard to 3, Dorsetmews, and there saw the prisoner—Hubbard asked him if he had been dealing with jewellery—he said he had never bought any, or sold any, and knew nothing whatever about any—on the way to the station he again said, "I know nothing whatever about the jewellery"—I said, "I have received information, and I know you do; you sold three brooches, a pair of earrings, and a gold locket, for 2l. 9s., to Mrs. Beverley, of the Phoenix"—he said, "Well, I did; that is all I have, and all I know anything about"—after taking him to the station, I went to Mrs. Beverley, and received the things which I have produced, and the day following, this gold brooch set with torquoise.

Cross-examined. Q. I believe you know the prisoner? A. No further than seeing him—I know nothing about his character—he is a horse-keeper to Mr. Pether, a large cab master in Dorset-mews.

William Shambrook, foreman to Mr. Pether, gave the prisoner a good Character.

GUILTY .— Judgment Respited.

NEW COURT.—Thursday, October 29th, 1863.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1225
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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1225. GEORGE TURNER (34) , Unlawfully obtaining a cheque for 300l. by false pretences.

MESSRS. METCALFE and ROWDEN conducted the Prosecution.

THE REV. JOHN COX . I am a clergyman of the Church of England—in November last, when I was curate of Woodchurch, Birkenhead, I saw this advertisement in the Times: ("Advowsons for sale, with immediate legal possession; one for 300l. &c. Principals only, may direct, Zeta, Bedford's, 8, Sloane-street, S. W") At that time I was wishing to purchase the advowson of a small living about 300l.—I wrote an answer to the advertisement, and received this letter in reply, which I believe to be in the prisoner's writing: (This was dated, 22nd November, 1862, 15, Hans-place, Belgrave-square, and signed George Turner. It stated that the property belonged to a friend of the writers, and was in Northampton shire, about two miles from a market town. Rent charge and glebe, 275l.; endowment, 30l.; rates and taxes, 25l. Price, with immediate legal possession, 2,800l. without a house, or 3,400l. the vendor building one forthwith; that there were many applications, but that the writer would meet Mr. Cox at the station, to show him the place, on payment of railway fare, and one guinea for time; and, if this did not suit, to let the writer know, who, as an old Cantab, now and then heard of such property.) I am a M. A. of Trinity College, Cambridge—I wrote this answer to it (This was addressed to the prisoner, stating that Mr. Cox did not wish to lay out so much, and inquiring whether his client would take less). In answer to that I received this letter, which is in the prisoner's writing. (This requested Mr. Cox to make an offer, but stated that 2,500l. had been refused, and gave the name, in confidence, as Hardwicke, near Wellingborough, Northamptonshire.) This is my reply. (This was dated 26th November, requesting to know whether there was a suitable piece of glebe for a house. To this there was a reply from the prisoner, stating that it would be absolutely necessary for him to meet Mr. Cox, to show him the place and give him information, without making the whole matter known, but that the guinea should be returned if Mr. Cox bought the advowson, and that he would point out a piece of glebe presenting a capital site for building, and explain how 200l. might be saved). There are one or two other letters, arranging the time of meeting, and on 3d December I went down to Wellingborough with Mr. Bowring, a friend of mine—we met the prisoner at the station, and he took us to the Hyde Hotel there—we had some refreshment—he said that that was the principal hotel in the place, and the people seemed to know him very well—we then walked to Hardwicke together, two miles and a half, accompanied by Mr. Bowring—the prisoner pointed out the various pieces of glebe land belonging to it—then he went to a cottage in a very dilapidated state, which he said was the only house on the glebe; where a labourer and his wife lived, and where the key of the church was kept—he appeared to be very well known there—he procured the key, and took us into the church, and showed us all over it—I said, "I see by the Clergy List that this advowson belongs to the heirs of a Mr. Hughes"—the prisoner said, "Yes, it has appeared so for years, but it is now vested in one person; it has never been altered"—I asked him the name—he said that he was not privileged to give it, but it was a great friend of his—he also said that the present rector, Mr. Greenway, was a great friend of his; he had known him for years—I said, "Then you only

have the absolute power to dispose of this property?"—he said, "Yes; I only have the power to dispose of it"—nothing was said to me at that time about a deposit—I left it in Mr. Bowring's hands, and Messrs. Simpson and Taylor's, my solicitors—the prisoner gave me this memorandum—I find my endorsement upon it. (This was a calculation of the particulars of the living, producing 280l. net). After that I still continued my inclination to buy it, and received this letter. (This was dated 6th December, 1862, from the prisoner to Mr. Bowring, stating that the prisoner was empowered by his client to close with Mr. Cox at 2,625l., and pay him 20l. for the repairs of the chancel; that a draft of agreement was enclosed, with a request that it might be approved and returned at once, as the prisoner was going into Devonshire.) This letter was written to Mr. Bowring, and forwarded by him to me. (This was dated 9th December, 1862, from the prisoner to Mr. Bowring, stating that he could not consent to the deposit being paid into a bank in joint names, as on a former occasion it had led to trouble and expense, but that the prisoner had no objection to make the deposit 300l. instead of 400l. if paid into his own hands). Mr. Bowring and my solicitors, Simpson and Taylor, managed the matter for me after my visit, and it was by my directions that the 300l. was paid as a deposit—I was induced to direct it to be paid because the agreement was sent to me by my solicitor, who said that he believed it to be quite correct—I parted with the money because I believed Mr. Wilson to be the real owner of the advowson—this is my signature to the agreement—I signed it, believing Mr. Wilson to be the owner, and that the prisoner had the right to deal with it for him—I had not heard of James Wilson before I received the agreement—I should say that this signature, "James Wilson," to the agreement, is the prisoner's writing, and the attestation, "George Turner," also—I have not been able to discover any James Wilson—when the agreement was signed I could not get the matter completed—there were various excuses made to me, not to Mr. Bowring; sometimes he was going to see a dying friend, and sometimes he was on the Continent—I have never got the title completed, or got back my 300l.—after these matters had gone on some time, I handed the matter over to Mr. Leach, who is very well known in Derby in criminal matters, with instructions to sift the matter.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Have you had any experience in the purchase of advowsons? A. Some little experience—I believe there are persons who are in communication with the real vendors, who act as agents between the vendor and the vendee—I do not know them as "middle men"—there are often parties who act as go-betweens, to conceal the name of the name of the principal, I believe—if they disclosed the name of the principals, the two principals might come together and the agent would be ousted of his profits—I dare say that is the object of concealing it—I dealt with the prisoner as the agent—I believe there is a clause in the agreement that thirty days is to be allowed to complete the title—I should not object to it being known that I was purchasing an advowson; some clergymen do, but I think it is very foolish—a clergyman, I believe, cannot purchase the next presentation for himself; it would be a simoniacal contract—matters went on from 15th December, till I sent up Mr. Leech on 26th March; during which time letters passed between me and the prisoner and between Mr. Bowring and the prisoner, and various excuses were made by the prisoner—he was taken in custody when they could get him, which was a long time afterwards—I afterwards received this letter. (This was partially read. It was addressed to Mr. Cox by the prisoner, and dated 27th January, 1863; it

stated the prisoner's regret at the result of the treaty, but that it was not his fault, for he had spared no trouble or expense to insure Mr. Cox's wishes; but that at the last moment Messrs. Simpson and Fowler deputed some one else to act for them, which was the reason Mr. Cox was not in possession of the property; that he had sustained some heavy losses or he would have returned the 300l. at once, but offered to pay 80l. down at an hour's notice, and the rest by instalments)—the matter had at that time passed into my agent's hands.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Long before that, had a warrant been issued, and placed in the hands of an officer to apprehend him? A. Yes, in March—middle men are clerical agents—in some cases they act for people and conceal their principals—I never heard of their putting in fictitious principals.

CHARLES BOWRING . I am a wine merchant living at Derby, in partnership with Mr. Cox, the prosecutor's uncle—in November or the beginning of December, in consequence of a conversation I had with the prosecutor, I went down to Welling borough, and met the prisoner there—we three walked together to Hardwicke, and looked the church over—the prisoner spoke to me, as Mr. Cox's friend, about the price of the living—he said that there must be a deposit of 400l., and that he had power to sell for the owner, and it was entirely in his hands; there was only himself—the draft agreement was sent to me by the prisoner—I received it on 6th December, and handed it to Messrs. Simpson and Fowler on, I think, the same day—the prisoner pointed out the piece of glebe, and exhibited perfect familiarity with the spot, and where he could get the building stone from.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you receive letters from him? A. Several—the name of Craddock and Shelley was not mentioned in them—he enclosed me a letter from Mr. Greenway, the Incumbent of that very church, directed Craddock and Shelley—the date is 24th March.

WILLIAM INWOOD TAYLOR . I am one of the firm of Simpson and Taylor, solicitors, of Derby—we practice conveyancing principally—we are Mr. Cox's family solicitors—on 8th December, Mr. Bowring brought us the draft agreement, which I sent back to the prisoner the same day, and kept this copy of it (produced)—it is proposed in it to pay the deposit into the prisoner's own hands—I scratched out that, and proposed joint names, which the prisoner objected to, and after some discussion we agreed for it to be paid into the prisoner's own hands, and sent up this cheque (produced) through our London agents, Richards and Walker, on behalf of Mr. Cox—we also sent up, through them, the copy of the agreement signed by Mr. Cox—the cheque has since been endorsed George Turner, and returned through our bankers as cashed—since the cheque was paid, we have had correspondence with the prisoner about completing the title—there have been several delays and excuses, until in March we placed the matter in the hands of Mr. Leech—my personal communications were with Mr. Bowring for Mr. Cox.

Cross-examined. Q. Did any letters pass between your firm and the prisoner? A. Several; up to the latter part of March, in which he made excuses to us for not making out the details of the title, which made such an effect upon my mind, that I did not take any immediate steps till I sent up Mr. Leech on 26th March—we were up to 26th March ready and willing to receive the details of the title.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Were you pressing him during that time to complete it? A. Yes.

GEORGE THOMAS JERICO . I am clerk to Messrs. Richards and Walker, the London agents of Simpson and "Taylor—by their direction I called on the prisoner, on 15th December, and saw him at his house at Hans-place—

here are two agreements, one signed by Mr. Cox, and the other by Mr. Wilson—here is a memorandum attached to one of the agreements—the prisoner and I examined them together and exchanged them—I had instructions to pay him 300l. from Messrs. Taylor, and gave him this cheque (produced)—I would not have parted with it if I had not believed that the prisoner was acting for Mr. Wilson, and that this was a genuine agreement—it was already signed by Mr. Cox.

JOHN CHARLES POCOCK . I was deputy-manager of the bankers' clearing house, Lombard-street—in December last I was in the employ of Messrs. Lloyd and Co., the bankers—the cheque for 300l., drawn in favour of George Turner, and crossed London and County Bank, was paid to me for Jones Lloyd, on account of our correspondents, to the London and County Bank.

SAMUEL LEECH . I am in partnership with Mr. Gamble, as solicitors, at Derby—prior to 24th March, this matter was placed in my hands by Messrs. Simpson and Taylor, and I came to London and waited on the prisoner on 26th March, at his house in Hans-place—he was at first denied, but I eventually procured admission, and saw him, I believe—I gave him a letter of introduction from Simpson and Taylor to the effect that they had deputed me to take up the matter—he said that great delay had arisen in consequence of numerous obstacles in respect of title and so on, but they were all removed—I said that a general assertion of that kind would not be satisfactory, I must know distinctly and specifically how the matter stood, and as nearly as I can recollect, he said that Mr. James Wilson, of Claphamcommon, was a client and personal friend of his; that he, for Mr. Wilson, had purchased the advowson from Messrs. Craddock and Shelley, of Nuncaton, for a nephew of Mr. Wilson's, but the nephew had changed his mind, and was going into the Army instead of the Church; hence the reason of Mr. Wilson seeking to sell the advowson—I asked him if it had been conveyed to Mr. Wilson—he said, "It has not, but I hold a contract with Mr. Wilson, and he has paid a deposit of 235l.; but Mr. Shelley has taken a personal dislike to me, and refuses to go on with the matter. I then employed Mr. Cook, of Wellingborough, a solicitor, to endeavour to carry the matter out, but Craddock and Shelley detected that he was acting for mo, and refused to have any dealings with him; I then put myself in communication with Mr. Dawson, a clerical agent, at Malvern Link, and instructed him to effect a new contract with Craddock and Shelley"—I think he said that Mr. Dawson was a clergyman—he said, "Dawson has told them that he wants the living for himself, and that draft of the contract was drawn;" showing me one between the trustees of the living and Mr. Dawson—I asked him what security he had for Mr. Dawson making over the living to Mr. Cox, in case he became the purchaser—he said, "I have not any"—this (produced)is the document he showed me, and he showed me at the same time a letter of Messrs. Vallance and Lewis—I said, "Why have you not filed a bill or done something to compel a specific performance of Mr. Wilson's contract with Craddock and Shelley," and I said that it seemed strange that he was opening negociations with new people—he said, "The course I am taking will cause the least delay"—I said, "The matter has assumed quite a new phase;" I had believed that Mr. Wilson was the real owner of this living, but under the circumstances you have related I shall advise Mr. Cox to have no more to do with the matter, and I may as well ask you at once whether you are prepared to return Mr. Cox's deposit of 300l. or to deposit it in a bank in your name and my own"—he said, "I cannot do either, for I have already paid Messrs. Craddock and Shelley 235l., but I will deposit the

balance of 65l."—I said, "I cannot understand why Mr. Wilson should seek or want to use Mr. Cox's money, and I will be no party to such an arrangement, in fact you may take it from me at once that Mr. Cox will have nothing more to do with this advowson; there is an end of the matter"—he said, "I have just thought of a plan by which we can get out of this difficulty; a gentleman came here this morning who was desirous of purchasing a living like this; I will see him to-morrow morning, and endeavour to conclude the bargain, and I will meet you wherever you please in the afternoon, and hope then to be able to satisfy you"—I named the chambers of my agent, Mr. Dubois, then in Coleman-street, and fixed 2 o'clock—he promised to keep that appointment, but instead of doing so I received this letter about the time he was to have arrived (This stated that the prisoner had received a telegram, which obliged him to go to Exeter, and offered to complete the contract within twenty-one days, or give up Mr. Cox's contract)—I communicated with Craddock and Shelley that day, and next morning received a reply from them; in consequence of which I applied at the Westminster Police-court for a warrant for the prisoner's apprehension, which was placed in Luby's hands to execute, but the prisoner had absconded, and was not taken till 1st September—I endeavoured to get him to come to my agent's chambers, where I had an officer waiting for him, but he did not come.

Cross-examined. Q. If he had come would he have been arrested? A. Certainly—I was laying a trap for him; he required one—he told me that letters had passed between him and Craddock and Shelley, which he considered, in point of law, a binding contract—from what he said I imagined he had a contract besides the letters; he acting for Mr. Wilson, and Craddock and Shelley acting for the assignees of the living—he did not say that they knew that he was acting for Mr. Wilson—I do not think he entered into the particulars of the contract, and said that he had had the opinion of Counsel upon it—he did not open a drawer and produce a letter in which it was stated that a gentleman of the bar had stated that letters upon one side and acceptance on the other, constituted a valid contract—he said that when Craddock and Shelley had broken off the negociation with him, he put himself in communication with Mr. Cook, of Wellingborough, to negociate, which failed, and then applied to Mr. Dawson—I said, "And suppose you were to carry it out in that way what security have I that Mr. Dawson will hand over the living to Mr. Cox?"—he did not show me a letter from Mr. Dawson undertaking to convey it to him—I am pretty sure he did not show me any letters from Mr. Dawson—he says in this letter (produced) that he has written to Mr. Dawson, for such a letter; that negatives it—he said that Mr. Dawson would assign the living to him, and he would assign to Mr. Cox.

MR. METCALFE. Q. He talked about a contract, did he ever show you one? A. No—he showed me that which he called a contract, but it was neither dated or signed; it was a mere draft—he said that it had been prepared by Mr. Lewis, who was representing Dawson in the matter, and that he was going to send it down next night to Craddock and Shelley—I telegraphed to them, and found they had not received it—that was on 26th March, and the money had been paid on 15th December—he did not show me anything like a contract, which gave him any power, on 15th December.

WILLIAM LUBY (Policeman, B 231). I am warrant-officer at the Westminster Court—I held a warrant from 28th March till I apprehended the prisoner

on 1st September at Bath, where he was going by the name of Sir Herbert Seymour—I had been making every endeavour to find him, and on two or three occasions went to Mr. Dubois' office to apprehend the prisoner if he should come—I have been to Clapham-common, and made a house to house visit to find Mr. James Wilson—I have made inquiries generally as well, but have not been able to find him.

EDWARD HENRY SHELLEY . I was in partnership with Mr. Craddock, a solicitor, of Nuneaton, at the time of this matter, and was acting as solicitor to the proprietors of the living—the assignees are Mr. C. T. Monk, the barrister (not the Q. C.); Mr. Daniel, Q. C.; one of the co-heiresses, and a Mr. Mahon, of Paisley—I know there is no Mr. Wilson who has anything to do with it—I acted as solicitor for all those gentlemen—everything that was done came through my office; nobody else had any power to act—I have never given power to John Wilson or anybody—I became acquainted with the prisoner in September, 1862—I advertised the living for sale, and received this letter (produced) from Mr. Turner, dated 9th September, applying for particulars—(This letter was signed "George Turner" and stated;—"I am seeking to buy such a property for a client, and if it is, as you say, in a healthy locality, we shall have no difficulty if you will give me the particulars")—I sent him the particulars on the 12th, but the letter was lost at the police-court—I have a copy of it—it describes the place, the population, and the income, and states the price to be 2, 900l.—on 18th September I received this letter from Mr. Turner—(This applied for the refusal till Monday, and stated that he would go and see it on Saturday morning, and requested to be informed by telegram to whom to apply)—I sent a telegram, as requested, replying to it, and referring him to Mr. Archibald Sharman, a farmer, residing in the parish of Hardwick—on 22d September I received this letter—(This was signed "George Turner." It stated that his client, a lady, had been with him that afternoon, having seen the parish, and desired to treat for the purchase, and instructed him to make inquiries as to the income and outgoings; it also requested an appointment for Tuesday or Wednesday)—on 23d September I sent an answer to that, fixing for him to call at my office—he did not do so, and I wrote this letter on 26th—(This expressed surprised at not seeing the prisoner, and requested a reply, there being other application)—on 27th or 29th I received this letter (This was from George Turner, dated Chancery-lane, and stated that he was not able to leave town till the Wednesday morning, and then went down and found the church in such a dilapidated state that he thought it necessary to send to his clients)—here is another letter (This was dated October 20th, 1862, and stated:—"My client is Mrs. Murray, of Kemp-town, Brighton")—I made inquiries about Mrs. Murray, of Kemp-town, but could not find her—On 4th November, in consequence of the arrangements not being completed, I went to town and saw the prisoner at 15, Hans-place; he asked me to address my letters there—I was shown into a room, and in a minute or two he came in apologizing for being in confusion from painting—I said I had called about the advowson of Hardwick; he said, "I have some grounds of complaint against you; I have not at present full evidence, but I believe you have been sending a party or parties up to my private house, as if I was hiding myself"—I said, "You are entirely mistaken; I have not even mentioned your name to any one, nor has any body asked me for it"—he said, "Why have you delayed sending me a draft contract as you promised?"—I said, "My reason is that we have not been able to find your client, Mrs. Murray, of Kemp-town, and I ask you for her address"—he said, "You have kept me in the dark as to who your clients

are"—I said I should not tell him—he said, "I shall do nothing further while you keep me in the dark"—I said, "As you refuse to disclose your principal we shall not proceed with the negotiation," and then I left—next day I wrote him this letter:—"5th Nov.—Sir, In consequence of the refusal to disclose your principals we must decline to continue the matter"—at the end of December, or the beginning of January, he came down and said, "Why did you break oft that negociation? you had better open it again with me; I think there is some mistake; you do not seem to like me"—I said, "Mr. Turner, when I break off a negociation with any one for such reasons I never re-open it"—that is the only communication I have had with him since 5th November—I finally put an end to the negociation on 5th November—it is not true that the prisoner had purchased this advowson of me for a nephew of Mr. Wilson's—I never heard of Wilson, or his nephew, nor had he purchased it—I am the only person who would deal in the matter—Mr. Craddock lives at Leamington, and I am the only acting partner—I never received a farthing deposit from the prisoner in any way.

Cross-examined. Q. You would not tell the name of your principal till he told his, and he replied in a similar way? A. Yes—it was not a mutual misunderstanding; we understood each other very well—I had no personal enmity to him when we parted—in his letter of 29th September, he makes us an offer of 2, 300l., and we offered to let him have the advowson for 2, 500l.—this letter was not stamped when it left me (This letter bore a 6d. stamp, and stated:—"Our clients will consent to the terms contained in your letter of the 20th, 2,400l. as the price of the advowson, on the express understanding that no claim be made for dilapidations beyond the nominal sum of 10l.; we will send you a draft of agreement as soon as possible"—I cannot say whether it was 27th December that the prisoner called on me—no negociation was commenced between me and Mr. Cook—I remember his calling on me and writing to me, but I never negociated with him—I believe it was early in January that be called—several letters did not pass between me and Mr. Cook—I wrote and declined having anything to do with it—I have not written a couple of letters to him—I received your notice to produce his letters to me, but I have had no subpoena to produce them, and they are a hundred miles away down in the country—I did not receive the notice before I left; I received it here at the entrance to this Court—I do not remember Mr. Cook's name being mentioned at the police-court—I had the whole of Tuesday to write for the letters, but they are locked up, and the keys are in my pocket—I do not choose my clerk to ransack my drawers—I sent this letter, or one in similar terms—(This was dated 2d January, offering 2, 500l. for the Hardwicke advowson)—I replied to that, and saw him a few days afterwards, but I believe there was an answer in the mean time by me, in consequence of which he called upon me, but I told him I would not sell him the advowson, and said, "I suspect, you call from Mr. Turner"—he said, "No, I do not know him;" but I did not believe him, and declined to negociate—this letter, addressed to Mr. Cook, is in my writing (Read: "13th January; Dear Sir, We are in negociation with one of the prior applicants, with whom we hope soon to come to terms. Yours truly, Craddock and Shelley."—it was after that I saw Mr. Cook; I have made a mistake in the date, I have no memorandum of it—it was a few days after that letter that I told Mr. Cook I suspected he was the agent of Mr. Turner—I recollect the commencement of the negociation with the Rev. Mr. Dawson—I had application from other parties—I do not know whether they came from Mr. Turner or not—there was not a Mr. Whitcomb—I suspected that Mr. Cook was negociating for Turner, but I did not suspect any others—the negociations

with Mr. Dawson commenced in the beginning of February, almost immediately after breaking off with Cook—we had several letters from Mr. Dawson; he was to pay, I think, 2,350l., but it never went beyond the draft—I consented, I believe, to sell to Dawson for 50l. less than Mr. Cook; I believed Mr. Dawson was acting for himself because he told me so, and he wrote it—he said that he was buying for himself, and that he had been on the Premier's list for twelve years, and was tired of waiting—I sent an agreement up to Mr. Lewis, Mr. Dawson's attorney; it was only a draft——it was drawn in my office, and Mr. Lewis sent it back; I have it at home—I received notice on Tuesday to produce it—I was examined about Mr. Dawson's affair at the police-court, but had not notice that this would be required—I was never asked to produce it, or I should have brought it—I did not tell the Magistrate that it would be here on the trial—some letters in reference to the negociation passed between me and Mr. Lewis—the agreement was not completed, because Mr. Dawson wanted it conveyed to him or his assigns, and I objected to convey it to anybody but Mr. Dawson—I should have had no objection to convey it to Mr. Dawson when I got the deposit of 255l. which was to be paid on signing the agreement, but it was mutually broken off, and Hardwicke is not sold yet—I had an interview with Mr. Dawson—a gentleman was present; I do not know his name—Mr. Dawson did not say that if he did not choose to go down to it he would present whom he liked, or convey to whom he liked; nothing of the kind—it was broken off about 27th May.

MR. METCALFE. Q. I understand that Mr. Dawson expressly told you that it was for himself? A. Yes, and he had written to me to that effect—I never received any deposit from him or any one—from October last year nobody but myself has been in a position to sell this living—I did not know of a stamp being upon this letter of 23d October last until I got to the police-court—the stamp has been obliterated on the 25th by putting the initials of the person on it, and the date—when I called on 4th November not a syllable was said to me about it being stamped or being an agreement—the prisoner did not intimate to me that he considered these letters a binding agreement, quite the reverse; he came and asked me to re-open it—he did not propose to put it in the Court of Chancery to make me complete the agreement—I think Mr. Cook said in his letter that it was for a client—Cook's negociation commenced in January, and Dawson's 3d or 4th February—I am quite certain no negociations commenced before 15th December—the first letter I had from Mr. Dawson was on 6th February—the commitment from the police-court was, I believe, on 22d September, and the notice to produce was not given to me till Tuesday last—Mr. Lewis, who represented the prisoner there, gave me no notice. Witnesses for the Defence.

THOMAS COOK . I am a solicitor, of Wellingborough—I received instructions from Mr. Turner on 2d January—I have a letter, but it is not from him—I have several letters from him—according to the instructions in that letter I was to open a negociation with Messrs. Craddock and Shelley for the purchase of an advowson—I wrote to them, and heard from them that the living was then offered to another party—I went down to Nuneaton and saw Mr. Shelley, who said that ho was not in a position to sell—he said as I was leaving, "Are you acting for Mr. Turner?"—I said, "No; I am acting for a client.

THE COURT considered that as every one of the facts upon which MR. RIBTON relied had been already proved, this evidence need not be gone into.

CHARLES VALLANCE LEWIS . I am a solicitor of long standing in London—I acted as attorney for the Rev. Mr. Dawson—I am also the attorney for Mr. Turner—an agreement was sent up to me about 12th May; which I rejected for the reason assigned—we sent it to Mr. Turner, and received it back, and about 25th May I must have written to Messrs. Craddock and Shelley—it was broken off about 27th May—I had been carrying on the negociation from about 12th March, acting as attorney for both—the understanding was that the advowson was to be assigned from Mr. Dawson either to Mr. Turner himself, or to some one, certainly not to be kept by Mr. Dawson—I received the draft agreement on the 12th, and I think it is within the limit of reasonable expectation that it could have been completed in twenty-one days, if no unforeseen difficulty had arisen—I called on Mr. Dubois by Mr. Turner's directions—I offered him first 100l. then 130l. and eventually 150l. but he said that no money would settle it—I said, "Not if you had your 300l.?"—he said, "No"—he spoke of criminal proceedings, but I had no idea that there was a warrant, or anything at all—that was on 31st July—he would not accept the offer—I said that the balance was to be paid, half in a month, and the remainder in two months—I believe Mr. Turner was prepared to pay the 150l.—he authorized me to make the offer.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Did you you ever see Mr. Dawson up to that time? A. No; but I had his written authority—I wrote down to say that a contract had been sent to me on his behalf, and I should not approve it till I got an authority, and I got a written authority—I have the letter here—I only received the contract about 13th March—I did not know that Mr. Dawson was a "society," or a secretary—Mr. Turner, who I was acting for, told me that he had been articled to a solicitor, or was a solicitor—I only knew him as the Rev. Mr. Dawson, not as the West Midland Clerical Agent—I had been concerned for Mr. Turner before in other matters, as my diary will show, but not in any similar matter—I did not know that he had received 300l. from Mr. Cox—he did not tell me so—he only told me that a contract was coming—he merely instructed me to look at it, and told me it was for Mr. Dawson, and I would not act until I got a written authority—I received the instructions by letter, in the name of Turner—I think it will speak for itself; I have it here—I never knew him at any other place than Hans-place—my communications to and from him were always there—I did not notice whether the post-mark was Bath, or London—I saw him many times after 28th March at my house, and at my chambers—I am perfectly positive I saw him in April, because a deed was executed about April, and I received my instructions from him at my house or my office—he has been several times, both at my house and my office—I think I saw him also in May and June—I knew on 31st July that there were criminal proceedings against him, and did not see him after that till he was in custody—I may say that I saw him after 28th March at least ten times.

MR. RIBTON. Q. He did not want to keep away from you, and he did from the officers? A. Yes; I called on Mr. Dubois on 31st July I have an entry of it.

JOHN THOMAS WHITE . I am an attorney of Bedford-row—I know the prisoner—I have had a transaction with him—at the end of July, or the beginning of August last year, I paid him 200l. for the sale of an advowson.

Cross-examined. Q. For the sale of another advowson? A. Yes; that was not for himself—I have never seen him except in that transaction—I

was not engaged for him since he was brought before the police-court for the sale of an advowson—I have heard recently of his having to return money.

MR. RIBTON. Q. Have you heard he has had to return some money A. No; I have only seen a report in the newspapers—there was the sale of an advowson in which he was acting as agent—it was brought to a final settlement, and the 200l. was paid to him—I do not know whether it was profit—it was the difference between the sale to one party, and the sale to another.

REV. JOHN COX (re-examined). I am a member of the West Midland Clerical Society, but I believe it to be a fictitious thing.


The following prisoner PLEADED GUILTY:—

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1226
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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1226. WILLIAM THOMAS (31) , to stealing a coat, scarf, and pair of trousers, the property of George Wood.— Confined Nine Months. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1227
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment > other institution

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1227. WILLIAM CLAYTON (15) , to forging and uttering a receipt for 18l. 10s.; also, to stealing orders for the payment of 1l. 6s., 4d., 18l. 10s., and 1l. 1s., and within six months, an order for the payment of 2l. and within six months an order for the payment of 15s.— Confined Six Months , and Three Years in a Reformatory. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

THIRD COURT.—Thursday, October 29th, 1863.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1228
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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1228. CHARLES HART (32), was indicted for that he being trustee of the sum of 22l. 5s. 2d. did convert and appropriate the same to his own use, with intent to defraud. MR. ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution.

FREDERICK GIBBONS . This fiat (produced) is dated 31st July—at that time I was clerk to the Attorney-General, Sir William Atherton—I am now clerk to Sir Roundell Palmer, the present attorney-general—this is Sir William Atherton's signature—I saw him write it—(Read): "I hereby sanction the prosecution of Charles Hart, under the provisions of statute 24 and 25 Vic. cap. 96; entitled, 'An act to consolidate and amend the statute laws of England and Ireland, relating to larceny, and other similar offences; 'for certain offences alleged to have been committed by him in relation to moneys belonging to the 'Sons of Honour Friendly Gift Society.' William Atherton, attorney-general."

THOMAS JAGGERS . I live at 116, Lucas-street, Commercial-road, and am a member of the Sons of Honour Friendly Society, which is held at the Shepherd and Shepherdess public-house in Old Gravel-lane—it has been established for the last twenty years—I was present on 1st January, 1861, at a general meeting of the society—I and the prisoner were then elected trustees—he afterwards acted as co-trustee with me—on 7th January he and I as trustees attended at the savings' bank in Osborne-street, Whitechapel, and lodged there 21l. 9s. in our joint names—I had received the money from the stewards and secretary of the society for that purpose—it was what is called the burial fund—on 6th May, 1862, in consequence of the death of a member, I and the prisoner had notice from the stewards to withdraw this money the prisoner was present when we had notice—we went to the bank on 10th May, and gave them notice of the withdrawal of the money which was standing in our joint names as trustees—we received directions from the stewards, that when we got the money we were to take it to the club house the same evening—I did not attend when the money was drawn, or did I attend at the meeting on 19th May when the prisoner was to have brought the money—I met the prisoner two days after that, either on the

21st or 22d, in Old Gravel-lane—I said, "Holloa, Charlie, how do you get on about the money?" he said, "All right"—I said, "That's all right"—I had not then heard that he had not paid the money over—I was under the impression that he had paid it.

Cross-examined by MR. DALEY. Q. Were you present when any money was obtained by the prisoner? A. No.

WILLIAM HENRY JAMES . I live at 9, Sydney-street, Wapping, and am a biscuit-baker—on 19th May, 1862, I was one of the stewards of the Sons of Honour Friendly Society—the prisoner was one of the trustees—on the evening of 19th May I was at a meeting of the stewards, secretary, and trustees—it was not a general meeting—I asked the prisoner if he had brought the 21l. 9s., with interest, with him—he said he had received it from the bank, and taken it to his brother's—I, and Mr. Sopps, the secretary, and the prisoner's wife, told him to go to his brother's, and bring the money—he said, "I will see you b—first"—he did not on that night, or at any other time, pay over to me that money.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you tell him to pay a man named Hutton 3l.? A. No; I did not hear any other person tell him—I don't know whether he paid Hutton or not—I did not hear him say he had—I do not know that before this meeting he had been working for Sopps, the secretary—he did not tell me that Sopps had discharged him from his work.

THOMAS GOULD . I am a biscuit-baker, and a member of this society—anybody can belong to it—in May, 1862, I and Mr. James were the stewards—we required some funds for the burial of one of the members, and the prisoner was directed to withdraw from the savings' bank some money lodged there in his name, as trustee—we told him to bring it to the Shepherd and Shepherdess on 19th, and that I and James would be there to receive it from him as the stewards of the society—I was not there in time on the evening of 19th, and did not see the prisoner that evening—I went round to his house, and asked him to bring the money round to the club—he said it was at his brother's, and he would not bring it till the next club night—I was there the next club night—he did not come, and he has not been near the club since.

Cross-examined. Q. Before this disagreement about the money, had not the prisoner been in the habit of taking the money, and paying the claims? A. When he was steward—I don't know when he was steward—I never heard that he paid Hutton 3l. odd—I never saw the receipt—I cannot swear that Hutton never, got 3l.—I never heard of it—I was not at the club when he was asked for the money.

RICHARD MATTHEW SOPPS . I am a biscuit-baker, at 10, Lower Well-alley, St. George's, and am secretary to the Sons of Honour Friendly Society—I was present when the prisoner and Jaggers were elected trustees, and was also present when 21l. 9s. was handed over to him and Jaggers to place in the Savings' Bank; directions were given that they were to withdraw it, upon notice being given by the stewards; it was my duty, as secretary, to attend all meetings; if I am not there to my time, they fine me for it—I was there on 6th May, 1862—at that time, it had become necessary to withdraw this money, in consequence of the death of a member—notice was given to me by the stewards, and I gave notice to the prisoner and Jaggers—the prisoner was to bring it to the club on 19th May—I attended there at 8 o'clock that evening—when the prisoner came, he was asked for the money; after a deal of provocation and remonstrance he turned round with his hand in his pocket, and said he would see us b—d before he would pay

us; he would keep it as long as he liked, till the next club night if he thought proper—I was there the next club night—he never came again to any meeting—he has never paid the money over—this (produced) is a copy of the rules of our society—the prisoner has had two copies of them, one in 1854, and the last in 1859.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know of the prisoner paying Hutton 3l. for burial? A. No—I got a receipt from Hutton for 6l. for the burial of his wife—I don't know who paid him that, or when it was paid—his wife died on 24th April, and the application was made in May—the stewards got the money to pay that from the treasurer, who is the landlord of the house where we have our meetings—the stewards are only authorized to draw money from the treasurer—we lodge it in his hands till it accumulates to 20l., and then we generally pay it away into the bank.

MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Then the money for Mr. Hutton's claim was drawn from the landlord, not from the bank? A. Yes—it had nothing whatever to do with the bank.

JAMES FRY (Policeman, K 481). I took the prisoner on 24th September—I told him he was charged with stealing some money of the Sons of Honour Friendly Gift Society—he said, "I will go with you; but recollect you have had me in custody on this charge once before, and I was dismissed"—on the following morning, he said, "I might as well have it settled at once, for I will never have the money." The prisoner received a good character.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1229
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

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1229. JOSEPH FARRELL (24), THOMAS OAKES (35), and JAMES WALBURN (25) , Stealing a watch, value 8l., the property of Henry Pagani, from his person; to which FARRELL PLEADED GUILIY .— Confined Twelve Months.

MR. LAXTON conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES RATCLIFFE (City-policeman, 635). I was on duty on 13th October, about fifteen or twenty minutes past 4 o'clock, in Bishopsgate-street Within—I saw the three prisoners at the end of Threadneedle-street, by the Flower Pot—they were standing together talking—I have no doubt that the prisoners are the men—I took notice of them, especially Farrell—I thought I knew something of him—I wont from there up to Cornhill, and there Walburn was pointed out to me—I pursued him as far as the Half Moon on the left, by Leadenhall-market, and ultimately took him into custody.

Cross-examined by MR. TAYLOR (for Oakes). Q. The Flower Pot is a place where an immense number of omnibuses start from, is it not? A. They don't start from there now, they used to—the street is crowded at a quarter past 4—people are leaving their offices near there.

HENRY PAGANI . I am commercial clerk and book-keeper of 37, Thread-needle-street—on 13th October, about half-past 4, I was going into my office; I was just stepping up the second step of the door, and I felt some one pushing me behind, and all at once saw myself in front of the prisoner Farrell—he had my watch in his hand, and the chain was hanging—I seized him at once, and I never let him go till I gave him in custody—my watch disappeared when I seized him, and I never saw it again—we took Farrell to the station—I did not notice any other persons—my attention was engrossed with holding Farrell.

EDWARD GRANT . I am a porter—on 13th October, about half-past 4 I was coming through Threadneedle-street, and saw Farrell and the other two prisoners push against the prosecutor—Farrell took the watch out of his

pocket, and crossed the road—the other two were standing at the right side of the door when Farrell took the watch—he passed it to Walburn, and Walburn ran away—Oakes went after Walburn—I went after Walburn, and said, "You have got the gentleman's watch"—he said, "I have not got the gentleman's watch," and began to go about in the crowd, and then he gave it to Oakes—I cannot say whether Oakes ran away with him; but he was there when I came up to Walburn—Walburn took it out of his right pocket and gave it to Cakes, who passed out of the crowd and ran up the middle of the road between the carts and carriages—I went after him, and spoke to the constable Gale.

Cross-examined by MR. PATER (for Walburn). Q. When you first saw Walburn, was he in Threadneedle-street? A. Yes; it was in Bishopsgate that he passed the watch to Oakes, as he was leaving Threadneedle-street—I cannot say whether he was aware that I was following him—when I told him he had got the watch, he showed me the contents of His pockets—there may have been two dozen persons round at that time—I spoke loud enough for them to hear, and so did another gentleman—nobody detained Walburn—I went after Oakes, leaving him there—Walburn was not above ten yards from the spot when I told the constable that Oakes had got the watch—he did not take Oakes immediately, he ran after him among the carts—I did not know but what Walburn had been taken by the policeman.

Cross-examined by MR. TAYLOR. Q. When you saw Walburn pass the watch, did not you see Oakes? A. No; he passed out of the crowd—another man spoke to Walburn at the same time that I did—I did not see the policeman Ratcliffe there.

MR. LAXTON. Q. Had Walburn passed the watch away before the shuffling of the pockets? A. He passed it away, and then said, "Look at my pockets."

ELIJAH GALE (City-policeman, 670). On the afternoon of 13th October, I was on duty in Bishopsgate-street Within, and saw Oakes running down the street, coming from Threadneedle-street—he was pointed out to me by Grant as having stolen a gentleman's watch—I ran after him, calling "Stop thief"—I lost sight of him at the corner of Camomile-street, and he was stopped at the bottom of that street by a gentleman—I went up and took him into custody.

Cross-examined by MR. PATER. Q. Walburn gave a correct address, I believe? A. Yes; and Oakes also.

JOHN FITZGIBBON . I was in Threadneedle-street on 13th October, in the afternoon, about half-past 4—I saw Mr. Pagani going up his own doorstep—Farrell came across, took his watch out, and handed it to somebody who I do not know—I did not see any one running at that time; my attention was taken up with Farrell—I was holding him, and a gentleman came up and helped me with him.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months each.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1230
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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1230. THOMAS WHEELER (41) , Unlawfully obtaining goods by false pretences. MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN BERRIDGE . I live at 2, Conway-place, Clerkenwell, and am in the employ of Messrs. Bonser and others, meat salesmen, of 20, Newgate-street—I have known the prisoner seven or eight years or more—he is a jobbing porter about the market—on Saturday, October 17th, Mr. Ives, a butcher, bought of Messrs. Bonser five pieces of beef—they were weighed, and I delivered three of these pieces to another porter, not the prisoner—about

half-past 8 that morning the prisoner came and said, "I want two pieces of beef left behind for Mr. Ives"—I delivered him the other two pieces—they weighed 87 lbs., I believe, and were worth 2l. 11s. 4d.—about 9 o'clock we received some information, and I went to look after the prisoner—I could not find him anywhere in the market—I next saw him on the Tuesday morning, before the Magistrate—I am quite sure he is the person.

Cross-examined by MR. DALEY. Q. How long have you been in Messrs. Bonser's employ? A. Thirteen years—there are twelve other men in the shop besides me—they do a good business—it was from 8 to half-past when he got the two pieces of beef from me—the first three pieces had been sent away about four or five minutes before that.

JOHN THOMAS . I am a butcher, at Notting-hill—about a quarter past 6, on Saturday morning, 17th October, I employed the prisoner—he always meets me, and asks me if I want him—he met me on this morning, I think, near the prosecutors'; I will not be positive—he said, "Have you got a job?"—I said, "I shall not be long before I employ you"—I told him where to go and get the meat, and he loaded my cart for me—I asked him where he was on the Saturday previous, the 10th, and he told me he was ill in bed—I said I wanted him, and I had to employ another person.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you examined before the Magistrate? A. No—I was subpoenaed by the officer on Monday—I said nothing about this to any one before the policeman gave me the subpoena—I did not know it—Mr. Bonser sent for me—the policeman said something about a man taking some meat—I have been in the market every day for a number of years—I have employed the prisoner for the last three or four months—I have not been long where I am now.

MR. COOPER. Q. Are you quite sure it was Saturday, the 17th, that you employed the prisoner? A. Yes.

WILLIAM COX . Last Saturday week, 17th October, at 10 o'clock in the morning, the prisoner came to my shop, 5, James-street, Oxford-street, with a coat on his arm, and asked me to lend him two shillings on it, as he wanted to get his children some bread—I am certain it was 17th October—I knew him before, and have employed him for ten years past.

EDWARD RAYMOND . I am a porter at Newgate-market—last Saturday week I was employed to fetch five pieces of beef for Mr. Ives—I fetched three of them, and told the man at the scale not to let any one have the other two but myself—I afterwards went back and found that they were gone.

Cross-examined. Q. You have been in some trouble have you not? A. Not that I recollect—I have not been convicted of any offence these late years—there was a little mistake at Mr. Nathan's in Newgate-market about some beef, which I left at the wrong shop—I was find 3l. or twenty-one days—I had not got the money, and I went to Holloway prison—I do not recollect anything else—Mr. Lewis, the attorney, has not prosecuted me that I am aware of—I was never in trouble, except about the beef, that I can recollect.

THOMAS HURST (City-policeman, 220). On 20th October I took the prisoner.

JOHN IVES . I bought these five pieces of meat of Messrs. Bonser—I only got three pieces.

The prisoner received a good character.


The following prisoners PLEADED GUILTY:—

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1231
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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1231. JOHN SHEARINGTON (21) , to stealing a handkerchief, from the person of William Shepherd.

Confined Twelve Months. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1232
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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1232. ALEXANDER JOHNSTONE (20) , to stealing 10 certificates of shares, value 200l., and 1 Grenada Land Warrant, value 12l. the property of William Thompson, his master.— Three Years' Penal Servitude. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1233
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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1233. WILLIAM BLACKBURN (19) , to unlawfully attempting to obtain 1s. from Edwin Frederick Winston, with intent to defraud.—* Confined Eighteen Months. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

OLD COURT.—Friday, October 30th, 1863.

Before Mr. Baron Martin.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1234
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceMiscellaneous > sureties

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1234. CARL NISFOLD (22), was indicted for feloniously wounding Motto Nygreen, with intent to do grievous bodily harm.

The prisoner, a foreigner, stating through an interpreter, in the hearing of the Jury, that he had unlawfully wounded, the Jury found that verdict; MR. COOPER, for the prosecution, consented to that course, and recommended him to mercy . To enter into recognizances to appear and receive judgment when called upon.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1235
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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1235. JOHN MORTON (20) , Feloniously wounding Humphrey Griffiths, with intent to do him grievous bodily harm.

In this case also, the prisoner stating that he was guilty of an unlawful wounding, and MR. DALEY, for the prosecution, consenting to that course, the Jury found that verdict .— Confined Six Months.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1236
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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1236. DAVID KEELEY (22) , Feloniously wounding John Williams with intent to do him grievous bodily harm.

MR. DALEY conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN WILLIAMS . I am a sailor—on the morning of 22d September, I was standing against the Red Lion, at the corner of St. George's-street, Ratcliff-highway—the prisoner came along and butted me in the breast with his head—I said to him, "If you want fighting, I will fight you fairly"—we went into the Back-road to fight; we had a blow or two, and the policeman came along and stopped us—the prisoner struck me in the nose, that was all and we parted—I asked him to have something to drink with me, to make good friends, but he would not—about 7 o'clock the same evening, I saw the prisoner in Neptune-street, standing talking to a woman who was outside the door—he got hold of both of my hands—he had a knife, and he out me down my cheek; I have the mark here—he then cut me twice in the back of the neck, and once in the left arm—he also bit me in the chin—I cried for mercy, and after that I became insensible, and did not know where I was until I found myself in the London Hospital—I saw the knife in his hands as I was coming along Neptune-street, before he struck me—it was a clasp knife—he was sober.

Prisoner. I did not cut the man—I had two fights with him in the forenoon—there were four of his shipmates with him, and they would not go away; I told them to several times—I know I bit him in the lip, and he tried to bite me, but I never took a knife to a man. Witness. I never saw the prisoner before—I had just been paid off, and these were a set of American sailors, lurking about, and pouncing upon all they could—I lost about 28l. amongst him and his party.

CATHERINE WHITE . I live at 1, Neptune-court, St. George's-in-the-East—on 22d September, between 6 and 7 o'clock, I was standing at the bottom

of Neptune-court—the prisoner came up and said, if he saw Williams he would take his life—I said to him, "Don't be foolish, you might make it up together again"—Williams came round the corner—the prisoner caught hold of his two arms—I said to him, "Let go of him," and Williams pulled his arms away from him—I said to him, "Come and have a pot of half and half, and make it up together"—Williams said, "No; we will have a pint of gin," and he turned to go up Neptune-court—as he turned, the prisoner ran after him, and pulled his knife out and pulled it across Williams's mouth—I screamed, "Murder!" and "Police!" nobody came—the last stab I saw was at the back of the neck—he cried for mercy three times, and said "Spare my life," and fell down—I followed the prisoner, but missed him, as I could not keep up with him; and I went to the station and stated the case there—the inspector sent a man with me, but we could not find the prisoner then.

BENJAMIN STUBBINGS (Policeman, H 111). About 9 o'clock on the night of 22d September, I was on duty in New-road, St. George's—the prisoner was pointed out to me—I followed him into the Back-road, stopped him, and told him to consider himself a prisoner, as I should take him into custody for stabbing a man in Neptune-street—he said, "It is very hard for me to be locked up for stabbing the man; if I had not stabbed him he would have stabbed me."

Prisoner. Q. Did not the girl ask you how long an imprisonment I should get, and did not you say, "You must go hard against him, or he will get only two or three days?" A. No; nothing of the sort.

GEORGE KING . I am house-surgeon at the London Hospital—I attended the prosecutor when he was brought there on 22d, between 7 and 8 o'clock—I found an incised wound about an inch and a quarter in length, extending outwards from the left angle of the mouth, dividing the whole thickness of the lip, and half its length—at the back of the head and neck were two small superficial incised wounds, each about a quarter of an inch in length; one on the scalp on the left side, and the other on the right side of the neck—there was also a lacerated wound of the chin, penetrating nearly through its whole thickness; it appeared as if it had been caused by a bite; there were the teeth of the upper jaw upon it—there was a very small superficial wound on the left arm above the elbow, merely penetrating the skin, about a quarter of an inch an depth—there was a great deal of bleeding from the incised wound on the mouth; that was the worst—he was in the hospital about three weeks—he will not suffer any permanent injury.

The prisoner, in a long defence, denied using a knife, and stated, that the prosecutor and his shipmates had first assaulted him.

GUILTY of unlawfully wounding .— Confined Eighteen Months .

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1237
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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1237. MARY MARA (39) , Feloniously throwing Mary Mara, the younger, into a canal, with intent to murder her.

MR. DALEY conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES COX . I am a coach-painter, and live at 41, Thomas-street, Oxford-street—about half past 6 on the afternoon of 5th October, I saw the prisoner with a child in Gloucester-place, Paddington—I saw her throw the child down on the pavement—I asked her why she did so—she told me to mind my own business, she had a right to do as she thought proper with her own child—she said the child had been very impudent to her, and slapped her face—it was about five years old—she walked on towards the New-road—I followed her, and on five or six occasions she beat the child—I ran up to its.

rescue—she was given in charge to the police, but they did not take the charge as they saw nothing of it—she then went across the New-road towards the park—she went direct to the bridge—she took the child very quietly till she got there; I was about fifteen yards behind her—I saw her lift the child, I ran to its rescue, and by that time the witness had caught it as it was over the bridge and was dragging it to him—I took the prisoner in charge till a policeman came up, and I then gave her into custody—she only threw the child on the pavement once—I believe it was crying, and she took it up and threw it down violently on the ground—the child screamed out very much at the time, which caused me to run to it.

Prisoner. Q. Did I have the child in my arms? A. No; it was on its feet, and you lifted it up and threw it on the ground.

RICHARD WEATHERLEY . I am a baker, and live at 1, Boston-street, Marylebone—on Monday, 5th October, about 7 o'clock, I was in Park-road, St. John's-wood—I saw the prisoner with a child—I followed her to the canal bridge—she took the child in her arms and said, "Now I will do it"—she took the child up and threw it from her arms; it happened to catch upon the parapet of the bridge instead of going clear from the bridge—the body and head were over, and the legs were up in the air—I caught hold of the legs while they were up in the air, and pulled it in with my arms—if I had not done so just at that minute, it must have been in the water head first—when Mr. Cox took hold of her she said she meant doing it and herself to.

COURT. Q. Was she in liquor at all? A. I think she was, a little; not much.

Prisoner. Q. Did not I have the child in my arms, and did not I say to it, "If you don't behave yourself, I will chuck you in the water and drown you," to frighten it? A. No; you said, "Now I will do it"—there was no one quite near you at the time.

WILLIAM ANDREWS (Policeman, S 241). The prisoner was given into my custody by two men, who stated in her presence that she had attempted to throw the child into the water—she said she meant to do so—she was drunk—the water in the canal was deep enough to drown any one.

JAMES PRIOR . I am a constable of the Mendicity Society—I saw the child at the workhouse—it was about five years old—I had repeatedly seen that child with the prisoner—I have had her in custody with it—I have heard her call it Mary.

The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate: "About half-past 6 this night week, I was in Park-road, and the child began to cry, and I gave her a couple of slaps; when we got to the bridge I lifted her up, and said, 'If you don't hold your tongue I will throw you into the water, and drown you;' I lifted her up from the ground in my arms; I walked on to the church, and these two gentlemen gave me in charge."

Prisoner's Defence. I did not mean to do anything to the child, only she is a very hot-tempered child, and I used those words to her to make her be quiet.

GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1238
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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1238. DANIEL McCARTHY (21) , Robbery on Thomas Stevenson, and stealing 15s. his moneys.

MR. WOOD conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS STEVENSON . I am a seaman—on the evening of 7th October, I took a lodging at the Neptune coffee-house—I had been there many times before—between 9 and 10 o'clock that night, I was in a public-house; I can't say the name of the place; it was near Wellclose-square—the prisoner

was there—I had been drinking a little, but I was not drunk; I had my senses about me—the prisoner kept looking at me, and I kept looking at him—I went out, and lost my way—I got into a back street, and did not know where I was—the prisoner came up close behind me—I recognised him as the man I had seen in the public-house just before—I asked him if he would show me where the Neptune coffee-house was—he said he would provided I would stand a pot of beer—I said I would—he said, "You had best look and see that your money is all right"—I said, "My money is all right"—he said, "I will go no further with you till you see that your money is all right, or you may think that I have robbed you"—I then took my money out, and was just going to count it, when he took the lot—I had a sovereign, a half-sovereign, and some silver; I reckon about 1l. 15s.—the prisoner ran away with the money—he dropped a coin, and I stopped to pick it up—I was close behind him then—I then ran after him, but he got away—as I was standing, and the people were asking me what was the matter, the prisoner came up and asked me what was the matter—as soon as I saw him I said, "You know very well what is the matter; you are the man that has got my money"—he said, "Me; why I never saw you before"—I took hold of him by his guernsey—he had on a white duck jumper before that, but he had thrown it off—he said, "Leave go of me, and I will go with you"—I said, "You have tricked me once, and I don't want you to trick me again"—he then flung me down, but I hung on to him till the police came—he was kicking me in all parts when the policeman came up—I have no doubt whatever about the prisoner being the man that robbed me.

Cross-examined by MR. WARTON. Q. The man you saw in the public-house had on a white jumper? A. Yes—it was about five minutes after the man got away from me that the prisoner came up—he was then dressed in the guernsey that he has on now—there were plenty of people in the public-house—they did not look at me as this man did—I should say this public-house was about a mile and half from my lodging—I had never seen the prisoner before that evening—I had been having something near two pots of ale—I was sober.

JOSEPH WILKINS (Policeman, H 213). On the evening of 7th October, I was in Wellclose-square, and heard a cry of "Police!"—I ran up, and when I got up the prisoner had got the prosecutor down, kicking him—I seized him by the back part of the guernsey and the handkerchief, and lifted him off—I said, "What game do you call this"—the prosecutor said, "He has robbed me of 35s."—he appeared to be sober.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1239
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

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1239. JOHN CRAWLEY (28), and JOHN MOORE (30) , Unlawfully attempting to break and enter the dwelling-house of Sampson Turner, with intent to steal. MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

SAMPSON TURNER . I am a milliner, of 116, Shoreditch—on Friday morning, 9th October, about 2 o'clock, I was called up by the police to look at the shutters of my shop—I found on the lower part of one of the shutters an impression, which had been apparently fresh done—I had not seen it before—I had property in my window worth about 150l.

Cross-examined by MR. PATER. Q. Are you in the habit of putting up and taking down your shutters yourself? A. No; sometimes—my porter gene rally does it—I cannot swear whether the mark was there before or not; it appeared to be quite fresh.

AMBROSE SUTTON (Policeman, A 422). On the morning of 9th October, about ten minutes to 2, I saw the prisoners together, about twelve yards from the prosecutor's premises—I walked along on the opposite side; something aroused my suspicion, and I returned and placed myself in a court, tight opposite the prosecutor's—I saw Moore come to the end of Calvert-street, and look right and left—he then went back to Crawley, came back again, and again looked right and left—he then went back to Crawley again, and stood halfway—Crawley went on his right knee and placed something to the prosecutor's shutters; what it was I could not see at the time; I distinctly saw him put something against them—he might have been about a minute doing that—Crawley was standing right in front of him at the time—they then walked up High-street, Shoreditch, and went into a coffee-shop in Kingsland-road—I met H 34, and we took them into custody—Crawley dropped this jemmy from his left-hand side, underneath his coat—I picked it up—he said, "That is nothing; that is not mine"—I was obliged to hit him with it on the left arm to keep him quiet—when at the station-house he said, "That is mine; I don't deny it," and I can buy it at any marine store dealer's for 4 1/2 d.

Cross-examined by MR. WARTON (for Crawley). Q. Is this the first time you have recollected that? A. No—I stated it before the Magistrate—the distance which Moore went backwards and forwards was just over twentyone yards from where I was standing.

Cross-examined by MR. PATER (for Moore). Q. I believe it was a very dark night? A. No; there was a light right opposite the place—I could not see the instrument at the distance I was—I examined the shutters about an hour afterwards; there is a glass front behind the shutters—this instrument would open anything—I was alone in the first instance—I was watching them—I watched them into the coffee-house—they were in there about ten minutes, and as they came out we took them into custody, about 300 yards from the coffee-house, right opposite the prosecutor's place.

JAMES OLIVE (Police-sergeant, H 34). I took Moore into custody—I told him he was charged, with two others, for attempting to break into a shop—he made no reply, but began to struggle to get away—I got him up against the shutters, and sprang my rattle, assistance came, and we secured him—he was too powerful for me.

Cross-examined by MR. PATER. Q. Was not what you said to him, "Wait till we get to the station, and then I will tell you what we want of you?" A. No; I told him there and then—I did tell him again at the station, and so did the inspector—he said the other prisoner was a perfect stranger to him; that he had never seen him before.

THOMAS HARRIS (Police-sergeant, H 7). I examined Mr. Turner's shutters, and found two marks on one of them—I compared this jemmy with them; the ends of it are different; one impression fitted one end and one another—it was a perfect fit.

Cross-examined by MR. WARTON. Q. After you put the end in, I suppose you found the mark? A. I saw the marks before I did that; there were two marks—I will swear that each end of the jemmy fitted.

Cross-examined by MR. PATER. Q. You were not before the Magistrate on the first occasion were you? A. No—I was ordered to come here by the inspector—I have not brought the shutters here.

CRAWLEY— GUILTY .**— Confined Twelve Months.

MOORE— GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1240
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentencesImprisonment; Imprisonment > penal servitude

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1240. THOMAS LOWMAN (20) , Stealing 46 lbs. weight of leather, the property of Thomas Layland, his master; and JAMES NUNN , feloniously receiving the same; to which

LOWMAN PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

MR. BEST conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS LOWMAN (the prisoner). I have been in the service of Mr. Layland, a leather merchant, of 108, High-street, Shoreditch, for the last eighteen months—I became acquainted with the prisoner Nunn on 17th May last, at the Rising Sun at Walthamstow—I had seen him before that at my master's shop—he was in the habit of purchasing goods there—he is a shoemaker by trade—on 17th May he said to me, if I would get him some uppers he would pay me for them—I did so, and he paid me about half price for them; 10s. for seven pairs—I got them out of the second floor of Mr. Layland's premises—I stole them—I continued supplying Nunn with these uppers for about six weeks—he paid me at the same rate—he then said he had sufficient of that kind of leather, I must get him some cut soles, kips, and shoe buts—I said I would not for fear of detection—he said if I did not he would come and round upon me; then for fear of that I got him some—he told me to send them to Mr. Gay's, at the Woodman beershop, Wood-street, Walthamstow, by Dowse, the carrier—I sent some leather, about 21st August—I know this leather (produced) perfectly well; it is what I took from my master's premises, and this also in the bag—I sent that about 24th August, by Dowse, the carrier—after I took the leather from my master's premises, I used to take it over to Mrs. Simpkin's, No. 1, William-street, and from there to Griffiths', the booking-office, in Shoreditch.

Cross-examined by MR. GODWIN. Q. I believe this is not the only difficulty you are in with your master; you have another besides this about the leather, have you not? A. Yes—Nunn had previously bought leather from my master—I never sold him any on my master's account—I was an assistant—I recognise this leather by the covering—there is nothing particular about it—I can swear it is the same I packed up—leather is very much alike; all I can say is that this is very much the same kind of thing that I sent—he did not pay me anything near the trade price; some of the things he did not pay me near half-price—there was no bill made out to him.

COURT. Q. What is the value altogether of the leather you took? A. I should think about 30l.

THOMAS LAYLAND . I am a leather merchant, in High-street, Shoreditch—Lowman was in my employ about eighteen months—during that time up to 22d August, I missed a large quantity of leather—I can swear that the leather produced all belongs to me—I never sold any of that leather to the prisoner Nunn in large quantities—the last sale I made to him was three or four months prior to this robbery.

Cross-examined. Q. I believe you sold him the same description of goods? A. In very small quantities—some of these articles he did not use in his trade—all shoemakers do not use the same class of leather—I only sold to him in small quantities.

MR. BEST. Q. Would what you sold to him altogether amount to as much as this produced? A. No.

CHARLES CARPENTER (Police-sergeant, N 2). On the morning of 9th September, I vent to Nunn's house in Hanger-lane, Waltham stow—I took him into custody, and searched his house—I there found part of the leather produced, and sixteen pairs of uppers in a box—these other portions I found at Mr. Gay's beershop.

Cross-examined. Q. I believe Lowman was found at Gay's? A. He was—there is no direction on the parcel.

MARY ANN SIMPKIN . I am the wife of Edward Simpkin, a greengrocer, of William-street, Shoreditch—I know Lowman—he has been in the habit of coming to our shop several times during the last three or four months—he left parcels at our place—they had no direction on them—he would come within an hour and take them away—I cannot remember the months in which he left them—I took no notice.

WILLIAM GRIFFITHS . I keep a booking-office, at the Horns Tavern, Hackney-road—I believe Lowman to be the same person who has brought goods to me, but I could not positively swear to him—I remember receiving three parcels in July and August—two of them were addressed to Mr. Nunn, Wood street, Walthamstow—Nunn called on one occasion about the middle of August, and said, "If you have a parcel come here for the name of Gay or Nunn, give it to such and such a carrier"—there are two carriers, and I don't know which he mentioned—it was given to one of them by the barman.

Cross-examined. Q. I believe Nunn has had a great many parcels left at your office? A. Probably he has.

JAMES DOWSE . I assist the carrier from London to Walthamstow—I go to Mr. Griffith's booking-office to get parcels—I saw Nunn in August—he asked whether we had got a parcel for the name of Nunn, to be left at the Woodman, at Walthamstow—I said we had not—I have had two parcels directed to Mr. Nunn and Mr. Gay—one was on 24th August, and the other on 19th July.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you certain about the dates? A. Yes; I have got them booked—I have not got my book here.

JOHN WEBSTER . I am a carrier, at Forest-rise, Walthamstow—we call at Mr. Griffiths' every night—I got a parcel from there on 21st August, directed to James Nunn, Wood-street, Walthamstow—Nunn came by my house next morning, and I said, "I have got a parcel for you"—he said, "How much is there to pay?"—I said, "Sixpence"—he paid me, and said he would send for it, which he did about two days afterwards—it was a long brown paper parcel—I believe it to be the one produced by Sergeant Coppin.

EDMUND GAY . I keep a beershop at Wood-street, Walthamstow—Nunn has been in the habit of coming to our house for years—we have a shoe-club there—the two parcels produced were left at my place by Dowse the carrier—I received three parcels altogether; two left by Dowse and one by Webster—I saw Nunn before getting those parcels—he told me that if at any time Dowse left a parcel, I was to take it in and pay for it, and he would pay me again—he fetched the first parcel away—the others remained at my place, and when I heard of Nunn being apprehended I gave information to the police, and delivered the parcels to them.

Cross-examined. Q. I suppose Nunn did a good business at Walthamstow? A. Yes; he did a good deal of business amongst my customers—as far as I know he is a respectable man—we have known him a great many years—I thought there was no harm in receiving leather for him—I have received parcels for other persons at different times—ours is a common licensed lodging-house.

NUNN— GUILTY .— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

NEW COURT.—Friday, October 30th, 1863.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1241
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown

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1241. JAMES CARLICK (20), and DANIEL WILLIAMS (17) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of Richard Phillips, and stealing therein two bottles of wine, his property. MR. BESLEY conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM BALDWIN (City-policeman, 537). In consequence of directions from Mr. Phillips, of the Three Tons, Billingsgate, I went into his inner cellar, under the bar, at half-past I in the day—the outer cellar is divided from the inner by a door with lattice-work at the side of it—the door was fastened—I was locked in by the foreman—I placed myself behind one of the bins, at the further side of the cellar, where I could see the door—about 3 o'clock I heard voices, and a candle was lit in the outer cellar, where the gas was burning—the door was then taken off the hinges, lifted up, and taken away, and I saw Williams enter with a candle on a stick which is used in the cellar, while Carlick held the door to prevent it from straining on the lock—Williams came to the first wine bin on the left, took up a bottle, and put it down again, apparently on the wine bin again—he then took up another, and came towards me with a bottle in his hand, I could see a red seal on the cork—he came to the bin where I was concealed—I then laid down on my side, but the light fell on me—he momentarily turned round, and the light went out—he went back to Carlick and said, "There is some one here"—I came out just as they were placing the door on its hinges, and said, "What are you doing here?"—Williams said, "For God's sake, forgive me; I will never do it again; I never did it before"—I said, "It is not for me to forgive you; I must call Mr. Phillips"—Carlick said, "I know nothing about it; I came down to make water"—as I went up the steps to call Mr. Phillips, Williams took hold of me, and said, "For God's sake, do not say anything about it; think of my mother and nine children"—I searched them, but found nothing on them—I got these two bottles (produced) from the wine bin—they had been removed from their original position—Williams had passed that bin, and he passed it again in coming out—after they were committed, Carlick called me to the cell, and said, "How do you think we shall get on?"—I said, "I am sure I cannot say"—he said, "I wish you would speak to Mr. Phillips for me, and get him to recommend me to mercy"—I said, "If it is your wish, I will do so"—he said, "It is the first time that ever I did it; I was drawn into it, and you might have knocked me down with a feather when you came out of the cellar"—Williams then said, "And I was drawn into it, and I am very sorry; if Mr. Phillips will recommend me to mercy, wherever I go I will never do it again; I was drawn into it by Jack Smith."

Williams. I never touched either of those bottles; I walked out and shut the door.

RICHARD PHILLIPS . I am a licensed victualler, and keep the Three Tons, near Billingsgate-market—Williams has been in my service about seven months, as night porter—his duties were to clean the knives and run on errands—Carlick was with me a fortnight and three days—his duties were to carry tea and coffee, and to wait on gentlemen and the salesmen in the market—he had no duties connected with the cellar at that hour of the day—one had eight shillings and the other seven shillings wages, and board and lodging at my expense, with as much as they required to eat and drink—since they have been, in my service I have missed property to a very

serious extent, in consequence of which I spoke to the police, and had Baldwin locked into the cellar—Williams had business in the outer cellar to clean the knives at that time of day, but not in the inner cellar—the door between the two cellars is always kept locked; there is a patent lock upon it—Carlick had no business in the cellar at that hour of the day—Baldwin afterwards showed me the first bin behind the door, and I found these two bottles had been removed—they are my property.

Cross-examined by MR. DALEY. Q. Would Carlick have business in the cellar at any time? A. Circumstances might take him down, but not at that hour—it has been used by my cellarman to make water in—I have offered to recommend Carlick to mercy if he will tell me who has been receiving the property—this is hock and sherry—Jack Smith has been in my employment—he left me six or eight months back—that was a long time before Williams came.

William's Defence. I was in the cellar, but I did not touch them.

CARLICK received a good character.


WILLIAMS— GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1242
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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1242. GEORGE TURNER was again indicted (see page 679), for unlawfully obtaining goods by false pretences.

MESSRS. ROWDEN and PATER conducted the Prosecution.

ARTHUR JAMES LEWIS . I am a partner in the firm of Lewis and Allenby, linendrapers, of Regent-street—I know the prisoner—I recollect his calling one afternoon in March, 1859—he was shown into my private room, and said that he wished to open an account for his wife, and wished to know if she might have goods on credit for a short time—I said yes, if he favoured us with references—I placed before him our book, in which he wrote his name, "Captain Thomas Mitchell, 2, Hanover-street, and Kirklington, Oxfordshire," and gave Major Williamson and Colonel Hamilton as references—the entries in this book are in the prisoner's writing, in my presence—I wrote to the referees the same day, and in due course received these two letters, one from Major Williamson, at Ryde, dated the 28th and one from Colonel Hamilton, dated Richmond, 8th April (Both these letters spoke favourably of the prisoner, and stated that he might be credited with perfect safety)—I received Major Williamson's letter first, and the prisoner called on or about 11th April, the day we received the letter from Colonel Hamilton—I believe he was alone the first time he called—he called on 16th April with a person whom he represented to be his wife, and made his first purchase of goods—I saw him. and handed him over to one of my assistants—the references being satisfactory, I should give general instructions that if such a person called for goods he was to have them—Henry Oram was the assistant who attended to him when he called after he had written, which was on 12th May—he then took away with him goods to the value of 18l.—we gave him credit on the belief that he was Captain Mitchell, and on the strength of these letters, which we believed to be genuine—his giving a country address would induce us to place faith in his representations; if a gentleman has a residence in the country, we consider he is respectable.

Cross-examined by MR. PALMER. Q. Did all this take place in 1859? A. Yes—he wrote down that he lived at Kirklington—he did not say that he was staying with a friend there—I did not make inquiries there at the time—I I did not send any one down to Ryde; we should have enough to do if we went all over the country—I wrote there, and had an answer—I subsequently gent down to Richmond—inquiries were made at Hanover-street,

and we found that he was lodging there—the personal inquiries at Richmond were made in July or August following, in consequence of reports we heard after we had supplied the goods—we made the inquiries at Kirklington within the last month or so—the fact of the prisoner being a captain certainly influenced me—I parted with the goods on his statement, and on the references which corroborated it—I think this letter signed "Williamson" is in the prisoner's writing—all this happened in 1859, and I heard that he was in Lewes Gaol the same year—the last entry of goods made to him is, I believe, in May or June, 1859—we ceased to supply him because we heard rumours about him—we made inquiries, and found he had left his lodging at Hanover-street in a suspicious manner, and heard nothing more of him till he was in a Lewes Gaol, convicted of passing a forged cheque of Lord Charleville's—during those four years we have done nothing in the matter—I received a sum of 5l. in 1860; I cannot say that it was from the prisoner; the circumstances were peculiar—I was distinctly told that it was not on account of the prisoner's debt to us; the money was brought to my counting-house by a person who said that he wished to pay 5l. on account of Captain Mitchell—I said, "Pray, who do you come from?"—he said, "From Messrs. Lewis and Co., Great Marlborough-street, solicitors"—I said, "Is this sent by Captain Mitchell? he is in Lewes Gaol; he cannot pay money now"—he said, "No, that money was brought to us by a lady, requesting us to pay it to you;" and I believe he said that he thought it was the wife of Mitchell—I did not receive the 5l. on account of the first entry—I did not in 1859 receive back any of the goods which form part of this charge; certain goods were sent up from Lewes Gaol to the Vine-street Station, one of our men went to the station, identified them, and brought them back—I did not represent that we were going to institute proceedings; he was then in prison, and we thought that that would be enough for him—we are members of the Trade-protection Society—the Society for the Prosecution of Swindlers are interested in these proceedings to-day, under our instructions—they are not instituted by the Society; it was suggested by us.

MR. ROWDEN. Q. How came you to institute these proceedings? A. We received a letter from the prisoner, as Sir Herbert Seymour, requesting a great many goods—he referred us to Mr. Turner, which was himself, and we put ourselves in communication with the officer who had got the warrant, and went to the station and recognised the prisoner as the person who had dealt with us before.

HENRY ORAM . I am an assistant to Messrs. Lewis and Allenby—I saw the prisoner three or four years ago—I remember the date by the book; it was 12th May, 1859—I supplied him with five pairs of ladies' kid gloves, four pairs of gentlemen's ditto, twenty yards glace, and half a dozen cotton hose, coming to 18l. 10s. 6d.—he was accompanied by a woman, and came in a one-horse brougham, into which I put the things—I had received directions to give credit to Captain Mitchell.

Cross-examined. Q. I suppose you know the prisoner so well that you have not the slightest doubt of him? A. Not the slightest.

HENRY WILLIAM OTWAY . I am clerk to Mr. Arthur Lewis—I remember an account being opened, and a correspondence with Captain Mitchell, but do not recognise the prisoner—in July or August, 1859, I went to Richmond-hill, and inquired from house to house, but could hear of no such a person as Colonel Hamilton—I also went to 2, Hanover-street, and inquired for Captain Thomas Mitchell—it was a lodging-house—I found he had been there and left without paying his rent—I went down to Kirklington, in

Oxfordshire, on 20th September last, and inquired from house to house if Captain Mitchell had lived or resided there in 1859—I was informed that no such person had lived there—I went to the rate-collector, who knew no such name, then to the post-office, and inquired if any letters had been received for him, and the answer was, "No"—it is a small place, quite a village.

Cross-examined. Q. Was that last September? A. September just passed—the same postmaster was there four years ago, and the same parishconstable.

WILLIAM GLENNISTER . I am superintendent of the borough police, at Hastings—the prisoner was staying at the Marine Hotel there, at the latter part of July, 1859, with a lady, passing by the name of Lord and Lady Charleville—they stayed between a week and a fortnight.

JAMES BRAIN . I am clerk and book-keeper to Mr. Ablett, a hosier, of Regent-street—I have seen the prisoner write, and believe this letter signed "C. Williamson," to be in his writing, and also this letter signed "H. Seymour"—I went down to Bath and saw him write this letter (produced)—I have known him by the name of Sir H. Seymour, and by no other name—he answered to the name of Sir Herbert Seymour when I addressed him in that name on 1st September, 1863 (This letter wag signed "H. Seymour," and stated that he was Sir Herbert, and not Sir Hamilton, who was abroad; that his baronetcy dated more than a century back, but had lain dormant some years; that if, after these explanations, an account was opened, he would instruct his agent to settle it in July and January.

Cross-examined. Q. How many times have you seen the prisoner write? A. Once on 1st September, this year, at the Central Police-station, Bath—I was standing close to him, and he showed it to me to see if it was right—I do not recognise this letter signed "Charles Hamilton," but these two others are so similar that I believe they are in the same writing—I went down to get a bill paid if I could—I had seen him once before; I received money from him once, and through the post several times, I believe—I acted on his communications—we had no claim against him, only a debt.

FREDERICK THOMAS DUBOIS . I am a solicitor, of Church-passage, Gresham-street—according to the best of my belief this letter is in the prisoner's writing (Read in part only; "Sir H. Seymour's, Baronet's, compliments to Messrs. Lewis and Allenby, and begs to be informed whether, supposing he desired to open an account with them for 300l. or 400l." &c.).

Cross-examined. Q. Did you ever see the prisoner write? A. No; I have received numerous letters from him, and have seen perhaps fifty letters of his, and acted upon them—my name was mixed up with the proceedings yesterday; I am the London agent for Mr. Leach.

EDWARD HENRY SHELLY . I am a solicitor, of Nuneaton, Warwickshire—I believe this letter signed "George Turner," and addressed to Lewis and Allenby, to be the prisoner's writing.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you ever seen him write? A. No; but I have had a long correspondence with him, and have acted on his letters.

MR. ROWDEN. Q. In whose writing do you believe these other letters (produced) to be? A. Two of them, I should say, are the prisoner's; one is signed, "C. Williamson," and another, "H. Seymour" (Letter read: 13th July, 1863. Messrs. Lewis and Allenby. Gentlemen—My absence in Paris has presented my sooner replying. Sir H. Seymour is a client and friend of mine, and a man of the highest principle and honour. I collect for him rents to upwards of 3,000l. per annum. I pay his London bills, which, as he is not

much in town, and has no family, are moderate. He requested me some time ago to pay your account, should he open one with you, and I shall be ready to do so every half-year, on his verifying the items. I understand from him that he named 300l. per annum, but as Lady Seymour is only just recovering from a severe illness, it will not amount to that, though I know he allows her liberally. I write thus plainly because there is no reason for concealment or doubt. George Turner.")

GEORGE WAKEFIFLD . I am parish-constable of Kirklington, Oxfordshire—there are about 700 inhabitants—I have lived there from my childhood, and know every one there—I never knew a Captain Thomas Mitchell there—I never saw the prisoner there.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you prepared to say that Captain Thomas Mitchell has not been staying there on a visit during the last four years? A. He could not without my knowing it, unless it was for a very short time—I made every inquiry—there are only one or two houses where he could stay, and I have inquired there, and there has been no such person—most of the Village is small cottages, inhabited by labourers, with the exception of Sir George Dashwood's place.

GEORGE HANKS . I am postmaster at Kirklington, and was so in March, 1859—I have never seen any letters to Captain Mitchell—they would pass through my hands—I delivered the letters myself that year—I have never seen the prisoner there—he is a perfect stranger to me.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you prepared to say, that four years ago, no letter passed through your hands addressed to Captain Mitchell? A. I never delivered one with that name upon it, to my knowledge, and I am certain he never had a residence there.

MR. ROWDEN. Q. Do you know all the residents at Kirklington? A. Yes.

WILLIAM LUBIN (Policeman, B 231). I am warrant-officer of Westminster Police Court—I received a warrant in March to apprehend the prisoner—I made various journeys to different parts of the kingdom, and took him on 1st September, at Bath—I have been a dozen times to 15, Hans-place, Belgrave-square, but could never find him; he was always in the country.

GUILTY .— Seven Years' Penal Servitude. There were two other indictments against the prisoner.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1243
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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1243. THOMAS DANCER (36) , Stealing 1 cab, the property of Stephen Stephens . MESSRS. SLEIGH and WILLIAMS conducted the Prosecution.

STEPHEN STEPHENS . I am a wheelwright and coachwright, of Wharf-road, King's-cross—on 26th March, the prisoner came to me with another person, and I told him I would sell or let him a cab—he said that he had no money to purchase it then, but would hire it at 12s. a week—I said that if he liked to purchase it within two or three months for 23l., the money that he paid should go towards the purchase; but I would not sell it to him upon any other condition—he paid me 10s. in advance, and told me not to let the cab to anybody else—he took it away on Wednesday or Thursday—it was part of the bargain that he was to pay a month in advance—a day or two after 28th March when the time was up, he came and paid me the other part of the money, and I gave him a book which mentioned that it was on hire—up to 6th June, I received 6l. 12s. from him for the cab—afterwards I went to the mews many times, and could not get my money—I saw the cab there on 9th July, and took it away—after that, the prisoner came and paid me 36s. for three weeks, but said nothing about purchasing it, though that was

after the three months was over, and he said that he was going to receive some money from the country, and would come and pay me the greater part of the hire next Tuesday or Wednesday; upon that, I let him have it again upon the old terms—that was not with the option of purchasing, but at 12s. a Week—though the three months were up, nothing was said about purchasing—I then could not find him for a long time, but on 12th September saw him at 19, sloane-square—nothing was paid to me after the second hiring—previous to that I said, "Where is the cab?"—he said, "What cab? I bought the cab of you"—I said, "You vagabond, what do you mean by that?"—he refused to tell me where it was—I had never sold it to him, and I understood that he was not going to buy it at all—I subsequently found it at Mr. Nichol's livery stable, Fulham-bridge-yard—it was not at McDonald's during the time the prisoner had the cab.

Cross-examined by MR. COLLINS. Q. Do you still carry on the cab business? A. No; I sold it to Mr. Barnard, but am still there with him—I sold it before 9th July—I was obliged to do so; I am blind with one eye—I did not sell this cab too—I sold the whole stock, but this cab was not in the stock; the prisoner had it away, but they knew about it—I had one cab making then; I had no other—I do not know where this cab is now—I sold my interest in it to McDonald—that is the same man the prisoner sold it to—I do not recollect that the prisoner offered to pay 2l. or 3l. down, and the rest at 12s. a week, because I should not have taken it—I never said that he did—I would not say positively that he asked me—I do not believe he did—I never swore that—I have only sold it to McDonald—I came here to speak the truth, and I would not speak it wrong for half a dozen cabs—I put a new shaft in it before I sold it to McDonald—I was to do it up and have 11l. for it—I did not give the prisoner in custody; I did not appear against him at Lambeth Police Court—I was there—McDonald sent for me there, as he had some other charge—after the prisoner was discharged I did not go into a public-house with him—I saw him there—they had got a drop of gin there—I blowed him up well, and told him he was a very great rogue—I called him everything but a gentleman, and I certainly did have a drop of gin with him—I did not pay for the gin—I went in there having a friend waiting there for me, but he had gone—I should not have gone in if I had known the prisoner had been there—when I lent the cab to him Norton was there, nobody else—I do not know Mr. Hunt—I was not pretty friendly with the prisoner at the public-house after drinking the gin; I was not there three minutes—he did not blow me up particularly—I said that he had only got the cab on hire—I do not think he said that he had bought it, but will not be positive—if he did, I said, "You know you did not buy it"—I did not say, "It is immaterial now, as it is all settled," nor words to that effect—it was not settled then—I did not appear against him at the Police Court, because I was not going to give him in custody—I was not afraid of an action for false imprisonment—I went to Westminster Police Court to ask the Magistrate's advice, as neither of them would give the cab up, and he said that the best way was to have a warrant and bring him there—I did so—McDonald still keeps the cab—I have not had it since.

COURT. Q. Was it after that that he agreed to give you 11l. more? A. It was nearly 8l. or 9l. worth of work that I was to do to it—that was not settling Dancer's affair.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. In September, where did you find your cab? A. At Mr. Nichol's—on going there I heard for the first time of Mr. McDonald, and then I saw him about it, and found that he had bought the cab of the

prisoner—it was upon that that the prisoner was taken to the Lambeth Police Court, and charged by McDonald with obtaining money from him by false pretences—I was not a prosecutor in that matter at all—when he was discharged I went to Westminster, and by the Magistrate's directions got a warrant to take him for stealing the cab—McDonald was to pay me 8l. or 9l., but having found that he had suffered already, I agreed to do the repairs, and sell it to him for 11l.—I never agreed to sell the cab to the prisoner after the three months—the money to be paid was for hire; but if he bought it within three months, I was to allow him the benefit of the hiremoney—the 3l. he paid me was on account of the hire—it had nothing to do with the purchase-money.

COURT. Q. What is the proper price for the hire of a cab? A. In the summer, 2s. to 14s. a week, but now about 8s.—March is getting on for summer.

RICHARD BARNARD . I am a wheelwright, of 4, Wharf-road, King's-cross—I have bought Mr. Stephens' business—I was present about two months ago, and saw the prisoner give him three weeks' hire at 12s. a week, making 1l. 16s.—he said he should be able to pay him some more in a short time, when he got some money from the country—nothing was said about arrears—two books were produced; Mr. Stephens made an entry in both of them of the amount he paid, 1l. 16s.—nothing was said in my presence about the purchase of the cab.

MR. SLEIGH to STEPHEN STEPHENS. Q. Do you remember Mr. Barnard being present when the prisoner paid you the 1l. 16s.? A. Yes—I put down 12s., 12s., and 12s., on the dates it was due—I received it about 9th or 10th July—it was then that I let him have the cab back again.

MR. COLLINS. Q. Were all these entries made by you at once? A. No; at different times—the last entry is "June 6th., 12s."—that was the following week from the time he had it—whenever he paid me any money, I applied it.

MR. COLLINS to R. BARNARD. Q. Did you see the prisoner with Stephens more than once? A. Only once before I saw him at the court—I was then in Mr. Stephens' counting-house, and was about settling the matter with him to take his business.

FITZROY KELLY NORTON . I am a hackney carriage driver, of 62, Union-street, Clarendon-square—I know the prisoner—I met him in a public-house four or five months ago—I was speaking to a Mr. Jewson, and the prisoner said that he wanted to borrow or purchase two cabs, in consequence of which, I took him to Mr. Stephens, knowing that he had two cabs which he wanted to let on hire—I said to Stephens, "This party wants to purchase two cabs"—the prisoner saw them—he said that one was too heavy for him, and asked Mr. Stephens how much he wanted for the other—he said 23l.—the prisoner said that it was too much, and asked Stephens whether he would let it to him on hire—Stephens said, "Yes;" and that he should require twelve shillings a week—Dancer said that it was too much—Stephens said that he would not let it for less, but that if he liked to purchase it in two or three months, he would deduct the twelve shillings off the purchase-money—upon that Dancer paid a half-sovereign down—when I first went to Westminster, previous to giving my evidence, the prisoner offered me 2l. to say that he had purchased the cab of Stephens; and one morning, about a quarter to 7, as I was about to go to bed, having had a job all night, he called, and began talking to me about this matter—he said that it was a bad job—I said, "You have got to thank yourself for it; you have got me into sad disgrace about the matter"—he said, "What do you mean?"—I said, "I

took you to Mr. Stephens' to hire the cab, and if you have told it, it looks as if I was implicated with you"—he said, "What do you mean?"—I said, "You have not only sold the cab to McDonald, but I hear you have given a bill of sale upon it previous to that"—he said, "I gave a bill of sale upon it, that is true, but I have not sold it to McDonald"—I said, "How is it that McDonald holds a receipt for 16l.?"—he said, "I have done that that the Sheriff shall not take it"—I said, "This appears to me similar to Hayes and Wears' transaction"—he called on me a second time, and asked me to get up—I said that I could not, and he said, "Good morning"—he called last Sunday morning, and asked me if I had received any money of the persons in the prosecution—I said that I had not—he said, "Have you been so foolish that you have had none?"—I said, "I have had none, and I want none"—he said, "Get up and come with me; it will be 5l. in your pocket"—I said, "No."

Cross-examined. Q. Have you ever had your licence taken away? A. No—I was once summoned to Clerkenwell by my employer for refusing to pay a day's work, but never for driving without a licence—I called once on the prisoner's sister at his solicitation—that was after he offered me the 2l.—the offer took place in the Westminster Court, before the hearing—I informed the solicitor of that, but nobody else—I have never driven an omnibus.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Have you ever been charged with anything on oath affecting your character as an honest man? A. No; I have only been summoned once for leaving my cab.

HENRY WILLIAM JEWSON . I am an omnibus and cab proprietor, of 12, Clarendon-terrace, Maida-hill—in March last, the prisoner told me he had a cab on hire of Stephens at twelve shillings a week, and that if he liked to purchase it within two or three months for 23l. he could do so, and what he had paid for the hire was to be deducted—a month or two afterwards, having had an accident with one of my cabs I required another, and asked the prisoner if he would mind letting me have his cab—he said, "Yes, you can have it on the same terms as I have it, twelve shillings a week—that was at the end of April—I had it three weeks or a month.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you examined at the police-court? A. No; I had seen the prisoner, but I never saw Stephens before Monday morning.

ALFRED JOSEPH MCDONALD . I am a beer retailer of 67, New-road, Chelsea—I became acquainted with the prisoner about two or three months ago—about a week previous to 11th September he told me that he was in a little difficulty, and thought of giving up the cab business, and on 11th September I bought a horse, cab, and harness of him for 16l.—I got a receipt from him, and sent the cab down to stand at Mr. Nichol's—while it was there, Stephens came to my place, and I heard for the first time that it was his; upon that I caused the prisoner to be charged with obtaining money under false pretences, at the Lambeth Police-court before the inspector—he then said, "If I give you the money back will you withdraw the charge?"—I said, "Yes"—I received the money, and did not prosecute him—next day I had a visit from Mr. Cox who, I understand, laid claim to the cab, but he did not tell me so—he has got it now—I called at his office about it—Stephens claimed it previous to Cox claiming it—I said that I would not give it up having bought it—he said, "The cab is on hire from me; I will go to the Magistrate"—the result was that Stephens agreed to take a certain sum of money if I would do 8l. or 9l. of work to it—here is the receipt.

Cross-examined. Q. Did he then agree to sell you the cab for 2l.? A. No—for 11l.; and he was to do the work mentioned in this agreement—I never got my 16l. back.

COURT. Q. You said that you did? A. He said if he returned the money would I withdraw the charge—I said, "Yes," and withdrew the charge, but he did not pay the money, and the Magistrate ordered him to be taken on a warrant—I have paid 2l. but the cab is not mine till I pay the balance, 9l.—I do not know whether 8l. or 9l. would be a fair value,—I cannot price his work; sometimes a man will do a job for 2l. when another will charge 5l.—I bought the cab of the prisoner for 16l. in gold, and the witness signed this receipt (produced)—I had had no transaction before with the prisoner—I had given him no I O U, but he had one afterwards for 3l. 10s. for money I lent him on 12th September, which I have here—he sold the cab on 11th September—he said that he wanted some money to go to the country, and left me a box to take care of—that did not strike me as strange when I had paid him 16l. the day before, because Mr. Cox was pressing him for money, which was the reason why he sold the cab he said—(Read—"Received of Mr. McDonald 16l. for a hansom cab, horse, and harness. Dancer."

MR. COLLINS. Q. Was there a horse also? A. Yes, a very poor one—he gave me the receipt for it—he bought it for 6l.—he said he would give me his receipt for the cab, but he never brought it—the harness was worthless, and the cab was not worth more than 8l. or 9l.—it had been worked all the year—he was working it in somebody else's name—it was not to save the duty that it was transferred to my name nominally—I lent him money to pay the duty—the transfer to me did not save the duty.

ALFRED COX . I produce a bill of sale—I ordered it to be registered, and it is marked as such—I saw the prisoner sign it, and on its being executed I advanced him 25l.—the cab was a portion of the security—it is in my broker's possession—Mr. Stephens has seen it since, and communicated with my clerk about it. (The bill of sale was dated 16th April, and mentioned, among other things, "a Hansom's cab, No. 8,633."

WILLIAM LUBY (Policeman, B 251). I took the prisoner on a warrant which I read to him for feloniously and fraudulently obtaining a cab, and converting it to his own use—he said that he was given in charge at Lambeth Police-court, but got out of it—McDonald came, and the prisoner said, "All right, Mr. Mac.; I shall get two years for this, and you will get five."

(THE COURT considered that the prisoner hired the cab with a contingency to be determined by himself, and the question would be whether there was a fraudulent conversion to his own use. MR. SLEIGH contended that the prisoners right to purchase, expired at the end of the three months, and that if sold after that time the prosecutor would be entitled to charge the whole 23l. and that it was for the Jury to say whether the whole circumstances did not negative the notion that the prisoner had any abstract right to deal with the cab. THE COURT left the question to the Jury.)


26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1244
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

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1244. WILLIAM HENRY ROSEWARNE (18) , Indecently exposing himself in a certain public place in sight of divers persons. MR. NICHOLSON, for the Prosecution, offered no evidence.


26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1245
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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1245. THOMAS BREWERTON (30) , Stealing 1 watch, the property of Charles Barclay, from his person. MR. LAXTON conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES BARCLAY . My father is the master of the St. Giles' Work-house—on 23d October I was in Farringdon-street, between 1 and 2 o'clock

—there was a horse down—I stopped a few seconds and heard something snap, but felt no pressure—I turned round, and saw my watch glittering in the prisoner's hand—I took him by the collar, and he said, "A man in the crowd has got your watch"—I said, "How do you know I have lost my watch?"—I gave him in charge, and heard my watch fall on the ground—this is it (produced).

Cross-examined by MR. PALMER. Q. When you took him by the collar did you say anything? A. I said, "I have got you"—I said nothing about my watch—I saw a watch in his hand—it was not his own, or he would not have thrown it away.

EDWARD LEEK . I am a warehouseman—I was in Farringdon-street—my attention was drawn to the prisoner, from certain movements towards myself, so I watched him, and saw him with a watch in his hand, which he dropped when the prosecutor took hold of him—I have no doubt the prisoner is the person.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you know him? A. No; but I looked at him because I thought he was going to take my chain, and afterwards I saw a person, who was with him, brought into Guildhall for taking another watch—I saw them talking together—the other man was sentenced at Guildhall to six months' imprisonment—the prosecutor was in front of me, and the prisoner at my side.

WALTER BRYANT . On 23d October, I was in Farringdon-street, and saw the prosecutor seize the prisoner, and halloo out, "You have got my watch"—I looked down, found a watch at my feet, picked it up, and said, "Here is your watch, Sir"—the glass was out—it was near the prisoner—this is it—I gave it to the constable.

Cross-examined. Q. You do not seem to be quite clear as to where the prisoner was when you picked it up? A. He was in the gentleman's hands—I had not to dodge about the crowd to get to him; I had not to go half the length of this Court—I heard somebody say that he had lost a watch, and then I went to push through the crowd to see what was the matter, and picked it up—it was at the feet of lots of people.

JAMES ALFRED LAMMAS (City-policeman, 274). I was on duty, and Bryant gave me the watch—I took the prisoner to the station, and searched him, and found 6d. in halfpence—he refused his name and address—I found this cap inside his hat—he said that it was what he wore in his counting-house—he gave his name at Guildhall.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1246
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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1246. JANE BALL (19) , Stealing 53 yards of alpaca, the property of Thomas Simpson . MR. GREENHOPE conducted the Prosecution.

JEREMIAH HAMMOND . I am a porter, and live at 22, De Beauvoir-square, Kingsland-road—on 26th September, I was in Farringdon-street; my wife was in Mr. Simpson's shop, and I was standing opposite the door, waiting for her—the prisoner and another female went up to the door, took a parcel, and walked off with it, under her arm—I went to the door, and told the shop-walker.

Prisoner. It is false. Witness. It is not—the party with you was obliged to hold up the pile to keep it from falling, as you took it from the centre not from the top.

JOHN ANTONY NICHOLSON . I am a shopman to the prosecutor—I received information from Hammond, went out, and saw the prisoner and another woman standing opposite the window, three yards from the door—I passed

behind them, lifted the prisoner's shawl, took this piece of stuff from under her arm, and asked her where it was found—she made no answer—it is my master's property—it was impossible for any person to take it from the pile without assistance.

WILLIAM JAMES BAILEY (City-policeman, 225), I took the prisoner.

GUILTY .—She was further charged with having been convicted at Middlesex Sessions, in January, 1862, and sentenced to Twelve Months imprisonment; to which she

PLEADED GUILTY.**— Confined Eighteen Months

THIRD COURT.—Friday, October 30th, 1863.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerry Esq.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1247
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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1247. GEORGE SMITH (39), and GEORGE BOWLES (40) , Stealing 8 lbs. 8 ozs. of bacon, and 3 lbs. of butter, the property of Joseph Goddard.

MR. COLLINS conducted the Prosecution.

JOSEPH GODDARD . I am a grocer and cheesemonger, at 84, John-street, Hoxton—on 19th October, Smith came to my shop with a white apron on, and represented himself as a coffee-house keeper—he chose a piece of bacon, which weighed 8 1/2 lbs. and 3 lbs. of butter—he requested me to send them home by the boy, and he would return him the money—I sent the boy, who returned soon afterwards, without the money, for some lard—I gave directions to the boy, when I sent him, not to give the goods without the money.

JAMES EDWARDS . I am shop-boy to the prosecutor—on 19th October, I took some bacon and butter from the shop—my master told me not to leave it without the money—I went with the prisoner Smith, to the Rose of Denmark beer-shop in Hoxton; not a great way from my master's shop—Smith asked me which I would have, beer or ale—I said, "Beer"—I had the beer, and he then sent me back after some lard, and said he would pay me when I came back—I left the bacon and butter with him, and went back for the lard—when I came back to the public-house he was gone, and the goods too—I went in search, and saw both the prisoners coming from John-street—they went into the Red Lion public-house—I then lost sight of them, and saw them come out from the Britannia—I saw a constable, and gave them into custody.

Cross-examined by MR. WARTON. Q. All you saw of Bowles was that he went in and came out of two public-houses with Smith? A. Yes.

GEORGE ROFFEY (Policeman, N 413). About 3 o'clock, on 19th October, from information I received from Edwards, I left Smith standing against the Britannia Theatre, and followed Bowles down to Pimlico-wharf, to a little chandler's shop—I followed him in, and asked the woman whether she knew him—she said, "I do not; he has asked for a person named Murphy"—. I took him in custody, searched him, and found a piece of bacon and butter in his possession—it is not here—the prosecutor saw it before the Magistrate, and identified it—when I told Bowles the charge, he said he had merely done it for a lark.

Cross-examined. Q. How much bacon and butter did you find? A. I should say there was some 7 lbs. or 8 lbs.—Bowles said he did it out of a lark.

MR. COLLINS. Q. Did he say "I did it out of a lark?" A. Yes—the bill was tied up with the bacon, and the prosecutor saw it.

JAMES GODDARD (re-examined). I received some bacon and butter from

the policeman—it was returned to me by the Magistrate—there was a bill with it, which was mine—it was the same bacon and butter that I sold to Smith.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months each.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1248
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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1248. JAMES McCARTHY (28), PLEADED GUILTY to assaulting Thomas Dickin, a police constable, in the execution of his duty.

Confined Eighteen Months.


Before Robert Malcolm Kerr Esq.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1249
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment

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1249. ROBERT FERGUSON (40), and JAMES WILSON (40) , Stealing 15 lbs. of gun metal, the property of Her Majesty.

MR. POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

JOSEPH WILLIAM CROUCH (Police-sergeant). I am attached to Her Majesty's dockyard—on 2d October, at half-past 6, I was a little way from the Arsenal when the men were coming away—I was standing at the corner of Thomas-street, close to the Fortune of War, in company with another constable, named Randall—I saw the prisoners standing together—Ferguson was rather bulky about his left coat pocket—they both went into the Fortune of War, and we followed them—they were drinking some beer—Ferguson asked me to take something to drink—I refused, and as he took the pot away he began trembling—he went out of the house towards Wellington-street, and I followed him—I said to him, "What have you got in your coat pocket; you may just as well give it to me?"—he said, "It is a bit of metal," and I took out of his pocket this piece of metal (produced) weighing 15 lbs. 13 ozs.—he said, "Do forgive me".—I said, "I cannot; I must take you to the station"—I waited there until Randall came with the other prisoner from the public-house—I handed the metal to Randall and said, "I have got this metal, so we must go to the station"—Wilson asked me if it could not be settled—I said, "Certainly not"—Ferguson said, "Look at my family; if you take me to the station I shall be ruined for life"—I took them both to the station—Wilson was searched by Randall, and a considerable quantity of copper found on him.

Cross-examined by MR. HARRY PALMER. Q. What time of the day was it that you were standing at the Arsenal? A. I should say ten minutes or a quarter past 6; I could not say exactly—the men had been coming out some time; these were nearly the last—I could not say that they were the last, and I was not looking at anybody else—they were about three or four minutes' walk from the entrance—I knew the prisoners, and knew them to hold an important position in the Arsenal for some years.

MR. POLAND. Q. You were constantly about the Arsenal, and would be known by the workmen? A. Yes—I was in plain clothes.

JOHN RANDALL (Dock-policeman). I went with Crouch to the Fortune of War after the prisoners—I was there when Ferguson went out; Crouch followed him—I remained behind with Wilson—when Crouch was outside the door he called to me and said, "I have got it"—I said to him, "We had better bring the other one?"—and he said, "Yes"—that was said in the presence of the prisoners—I then said to Wilson, "You must go up to the police-station"—he said, "What is the matter?"—I said, "Your mate has got some metal outside; Sergeant Crouch took it from him"—Wilson then came out and said, "Cannot this matter be settled?."—Crouch showed

me the metal and said, "Here it is"—both prisoners replied, "Will you settle it? If you take us to the station, you will ruin us"—they were both taken to the station, and on the way they several times said, "Settle it, for the sake of my wife and family," and that their length of service would be altogether lost—at the station I asked Wilson whether he had got any metal on him—he said, "No; I have not"—I said, "I shall search you, and see whether you have or not"—I went to unbutton his coat, and he said, "Oh yes; I am the same as the other," and from his left coat pocket I took one bar of copper, and out of the right two others (produced), and he added, "Oh, I thought if would come to this"—the metal weighs one and a half pounds—the Fortune of War is about 300 yards from the Arsenal gates; three or four minutes' walk.

Cross-examined. Q. Were there many people there going out of the yard? A. Oh, yes; a great many people passing—I only saw the prisoners go into the Fortune of War—the great bulk of the men had gone out.

ROBERT VINNICOMBE . I am a foreman in the Royal Arsenal, where the prisoners were employed—Ferguson is an assistant foreman, and Wilson also, in my department—they were employed at the Arsenal on 2d October—I saw them in "Dial-square" all day, more or less—they passed out about one minute after 6, and had left work for the day—the prisoners would have access to gun metal and copper of the description produced—the value of this gun metal is about 15s., and the copper about 11s.—the whole of it is Government property—the gun metal formed the "dead head" of a model gun; it was cut off as waste, and would go back to the foundry to be cast over again—the copper is employed as vents for old guns—the prisoners had no authority to take the metal away—Ferguson has been employed in the Arsenal upwards of twenty years, and has been four years assistant foreman—Wilson has been nine years in the Government service, and about the same period as assistant foreman.

COURT. Q. At what wages? A. Ferguson had 8d. an hour, that would be 1l. 17s. 4d. a week; and Wilson had 2l. 2s.

Cross-examined. Q. When was the model gun, of which this was the "dead head," sent out of the Arsenal? A. Two or three months ago; the last parcel of them—these pieces are thrown aside, but not quite as waste—they are returned to the store to be used over again—these, or pieces like them, have been in the store during the last three months—all the waste metal is in a bin by itself—there are pieces in the shop—that is quite open for any one to go into—I know that all the "dead heads" of the model guns were put into the store—I certainly cannot tell you where those were this day month—we have numerous pieces of all shapes and sizes of gun metal lying about the shop, in different stages of manufacture—I am not prepared to swear that there were not similar pieces to these now before me—I should not like to swear that these pieces have been in the shop for the last two months—they may have been lying about there—if they were in the shop, they had certainly been taken out of the store.

COURT. Q. Could they be taken from the store by anybody who liked? A. The foremen had access to the store—workmen are often in the store, but if they got it out they must have carried it out clandestinely.

MR. PALMER. Q. Could not any one going into the shop, if so disposed, have taken them up? A. Yes, certainly—there is no special time for sending such pieces of metal to the foundry—it is the storeman's duty to send them—he is not here—when an accumulation takes place he sends them out—that depends upon the amount of metal there is in manufacture—sometimes

it is once a fortnight—it passes out of my hands when it goes into the storeman's hands—it is taken into the store, when it is cut off the gun—it may lie in the shop a day or two or a week or two—the foundry is just across the road from the shop—the store is not open for people to go into—I understand Ferguson has been in the service twenty-two years—I do not know of my own knowledge that he has been for twenty years—I have only been in the service fifteen years, and I have known him four or five—he was a workman up to about four years ago, and had worked his way up—as assistant foreman he has superintendence of the men—Wilson has been nine years; he has been a blacksmith, and worked his way up until about four years ago, when he was made assistant foreman—I cannot say whether Ferguson, if this charge is unfounded, would be entitled to 40l. a year.

GUILTY.—Sergeant Crouch stated that Ferguson had been suspected for sixteen months, and he believed that Wilson was his dupe.

FERGUSON— GUILTY .— Three Years' Penal Servitude.

WILSON— GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1250
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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1250. JOHN SMITH (29) , Unlawfully assaulting Ellen Maria Warwick, a girl under ten years of age, with intent, &c.

MR. BARNARD conducted the Prosecution.


26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1251
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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1251. JOHN CONWAY (19), HENRY BRIGHT (18), and THOMAS BROWN (28) , Unlawfully assaulting Patrick Quain, a police-constable, in the execution of his duty.

MESSRS. CLERK and BEASLEY conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS CUMBERLAND . I am a chimney-sweep, of Meeting-house-lane, Woolwich—on Wednesday evening, 7th October, between 4 and 5 o'clock, I was in the Uncle Tom's Cabin beershop, Air-street, Woolwich, sitting in front of the bar—I had just come from my daily work—three men came out of the taproom and stood in front of the bar—Conway was one; he was drunk—he up with his fist and struck me on the mouth—I gave him no cause whatever—the other prisoners followed him out—they said they came there to make a piece of work, and they thought they would commence—I saw Brown start upon another man, and the other one started upon the landlord—I am quite certain the prisoners are the men—the landlady called for assistance—a constable put his head in, and the landlord said, "For God's sake come and give assistance"—he had no sooner got inside the door than they began and knocked about his hat, and knocked him over the mouth—Conway was the one that struck at him—I did not see the other two do anything to him—they were hustling with another witness named Warwick—I did not see any one but Conway do anything to the policeman inside the house; outside I saw him terribly kicked, and greatly ill-used—the three prisoners rushed on him at once.

Cross-examined by MR. HORRY. Q. Were you drinking with these men? A. No; I had never seen them before—there was a man inside playing the banjo—I did not hear a disturbance between the prisoners and Warwick, the bricklayer—I did not see him do anything with his trowel—I mean to say they began the assault without anything previously passing at all.

PATRICK QUAIN (Policeman, R 294). I was on duty in uniform on Wednesday, 7th October, in High-street, Woolwich, and I heard a disturbance in Uncle Tom's Cabin—the landlady first called me in, but I did not go at that time—I went close to the door, and the mistress said, "For God's sake do come in"—then, as soon I put my head inside the door, I was struck by Brown on the forehead between the eyes—it was a very severe blow, and

there was a lump on my forehead—I saw Conway getting hold of the landlord—after being struck, I went towards the landlord—they let him go—the whole of the three seized me—I was pushed out by the door and received two hits; I struck Brown—by the time we got into the street I was thrown on the flat of my back, and received injuries from which I am suffering now—I was kicked both on the back and chest—Bright gave me a kick between the shoulders—I could not exactly see how I was kicked, as my face was covered with mud—they were all on me at the same time while I was on the ground—I heard them say, "We came to Woolwich to kill a b—y 'slop,' and we might as well have you as anybody else; there was one of our mates had fifteen months for killing a 'slop,' and we might as well have fifteen years"—a "slop" is what they call a policeman—I suffered very much from spitting of blood, and I have suffered much to-day and all the days I have been here from pain over the chest and between the shoulders—I received two or three kicks there, and had, for some time, a stiff neck—my watch was broken in my pocket by a kick—when assistance came the prisoners were taken off me—I have been off duty ever since, and am still under the doctor—the prisoners were drunk, but not so drunk that they could not know what they were about.

Cross-examined. Q. Is the doctor here? A. I believe so—when I went into the house there was a disturbance going on—these three prisoners created it—there were also the bricklayer, the landlord, and the sweep—I did not see the bricklayer with a trowel, nor did I hear a word about a trowel—I did not see him fighting with the three prisoners—I am sure he was not when I went in; he was sitting down at the further side of the bar—the prisoners were total strangers to me—Bright kicked me between the shoulders when on the ground, but they were all on me.

DENNIS WOODWARD . I am the landlord of Uncle Tom's Cabin, Woolwich—on 7th October, I was in the bar, between 4 and 5 o'clock—I remember the prisoners coming in—it might have been half-past 4, or nearer 5 o'clock—they called for a pot of beer, and my wife served them—she asked for the money; they made use of very bad language—they appeared to be sober, but I did not take notice—my wife said, "I wish you would pay for the beer, or go out"—they again made use of bad language, and Conway paid for the beer—he then struck the sweep Cumberland—there were two other men in front of the bar, Warwick, the bricklayer, and "Jemmy from Town," and they each started upon one—they first said they came to Woolwich for a b—y row, and they meant to have it before they went away—Conway was the one who struck the sweep—he had never opened his mouth or said a word to provoke them—I was struck by another man, and the bricklayer was struck by Brown—the bricklayer did not have his trowel—my wife called out for a policeman—one put his head in, and rather shifted back—I said, "For God's sake come in, or we shall be murdered"—when the policeman began to collar one, Brown began to hit him, and they all three fell on to him directly he came in at the door—they knocked and kicked him about—I tried to assist him, but I was kicked in my privates and in the back—he got them outside afterwards; in scuffling we got them all out—they all kicked the policeman after he was down—I was taking Bright off when Conway came to me and took him away—I let him go, and Conway knocked me about very much in the back and neck—I did not let him get away—I heard them say they came to Woolwich to kill a policeman—they made use of the term "slop"—when before the Magistrate I said "policeman," and not "slop," not knowing the meaning of

it—they said one of their mates was doing fifteen months, and they did not care what term they got—I did not quite understand the term—that was when the constable came to the door.

Cross-examined. Q. Did they all say at once that they had come to kill a "slop"? A. No; Conway said so—I did not hear the others say so—I believe those were the words he used—he said his mate was doing fifteen months, and he had come to Woolwich to kill a b—y "slop"—they came and called for beer—I cannot tell in what state they were—I did not take any notice—I should not ask any one that came into my house if he were tipsy—my wife is not here.

THOMAS WARWICK . I am a bricklayer, of Hog-lane—I was in this beershop on the evening of 7th October—the three prisoners came in—I was sitting by myself—they asked for a pot of beer, and the mistress served them—they were very excited, I believe in drink, from what I could see—Brown, I believe, said they came there for a row, and they might as well operate upon me—they struck me on the face, and gave me two black eyes—I had done nothing to them; I had never seen them before—I did nothing to provoke them with my trowel; I had not got It with me—I heard them use bad language to the landlady, and I saw them strike the sweep—he had never said a word, but sat on the stool—I could not tell which struck him, it was such a bustle—I saw the policeman come—they caught hold of him first, and pulled him in—outside the door they had him down, and he was kicked—I could not tell which kicked him; they were all round him—they were not sober.

Cross-examined. Q. Were they not very excited by drink? A. No doubt they were—I had never seen them before.

The prisoners' statements before the Magistrate:—Conway says, "I was drunk." Bright says, "I am innocent." Brown says, "I shall not say anything."

GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months each.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1252
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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1252. THOMAS DUCKAS (52) , Stealing a purse and 3l.10s., the property of James Quinton.

MR. MONTAGUE WILLIAMS conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES QUINTON . I keep the Prince of Wales beershop, at Sydenham—on Saturday, 10th October, the prisoner came there, and had something to eat—he afterwards asked if we had a bed we could accommodate him with for the night—my wife and I told him we had, it was a room with three others, but he could have a bed to himself—he made no objection to that—he said he was glad he could stay for the night—he then went up into the club-room, and remained there, it may be, an hour and a half—he came down stairs about 11, and said, "I shall go into the bar—parlour and stay there, as I now consider myself a lodger"—my wife was there—I closed the doors of the house, saw that all was safe, took my coat off, and said to my wife, "I must go down in the collar"—my purse, containing 3l. 10s. I think, was in my coat-pocket when I took my coat off—I felt it safe at that time—I laid my coat on the head of the sofa in the parlour, and went down into the cellar—I was there three quarters of an hour or more, and then came up to have something to eat—I was taking my supper, and my wife was sitting on the end of the sofa—she fell asleep with her head lying on part of my coat which had the purse in—I finished my supper and went down into the cellar again, leaving the prisoner and my wife in the parlour—I was down stairs from five to ten minutes—I came up again and told the prisoner that it was time to go to bed—he said, "I have altered my mind, I shan't stay

here to-night"—I said, "Why not? it is very strange behaviour on your part to engage a bed and leave at this time, past one; you have a bed to yourself, only it is in a room with the other lodgers"—he said, "I have an objection"—I said, "I can't understand it"—he said, "Well, there was an Irishman I saw go upstairs, I have a lot of particular money in my pocket, and I shall have my clothes robbed"—we had no Irishman in the house—the lodgers were all in bed but one—they had all gone to bed when I took my coat off, I am positive of that—the prisoner then said if I would allow him to remain in the parlour and lie on the sofa, he would stay in the house—I said I could not do so—he asked me again once or twice—he then asked for a candle—he was supplied with one—he went to the door, and said, "I shall go home"—he went outside the door with a candle in his hand—he then came back and asked for some matches, which my wife gave him—he then went away and I fastened the door—I went to my pocket for my purse and it was not there—on the following Sunday morning the prisoner came again and asked for a pint of beer—I gave him the beer, sent for a policeman, and I gave the prisoner in custody.

Cross-examined by MR. COLLINS. Q. Was it the very next day that he came? A. Yes; Sunday—I put the purse in my pocket in the afternoon, I can't say what time—I had taken the money from my customers in the course of the day—I had counted it not long previous—there were three sovereigns and ten shillings in silver—it was a short loose coat, with the pocket inside—I had four men lodging in my house at the time—three in one room, at the top of the house—the house is two stories high—the club-room is over the bar—two lodgers did not pass through after I took off my coat—they were all in bed at that time—I had a glass of beer to drink with my supper—I had not been drinking all that evening—I was perfectly sober—I am very abstemious—I did not put my coat on again when I came back from the cellar the first time—it remained in the same place on the sofa.

MR. WILLIAMS. Q. Are you quite sure, when you took off your coat, that your purse was safe in your pocket? A. I am certain of it.

EMMA QUINTON . I am the wife of the last witness—on Saturday night, 10th October, the prisoner was in our bar—parlour at 11 o'clock—I was there, and remember my husband taking off his coat—he folded it in half and laid it on the sofa head—he then went down stairs, saw that the house was secure, did some cellar work, came up again and had his supper—while he was at his supper I fell asleep on the sofa—when I awoke he had gone to the cellar again a second time—a movement under my right shoulder awoke me, and I found the prisoner with his head over me—he then kissed me and put his hand on my lap—I said, "Where is my husband?"—he said, "Hush! I am not going to do you any harm"—I pushed him and he went back to his seat—my husband came back from the cellar directly after that, and said to the prisoner, "Come, we must go to bed, we are tired"—the prisoner then said he should not sleep there—before that he had agreed to take a bed in the house—he said he had particular money on his person, and he would not sleep in a room with an Irishman, because he should have his pockets searched—he shortly afterwards left the house, and my husband went to his coat pocket, put his hand in, and pulled it out again, disappointed and empty—he stood still, frightened for some time, and then went out, and was absent for some ten minutes—at the time the prisoner took the bed I told him that other people were sleeping in the same room—nobody else came into the bar after my husband went down into the cellar.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you sure of that? A. Two lodgers came in,

stepped inside the door, and said, "Good night"—I certainly objected to the kissing—a sleeping person can't object to anything—I told my husband afterwards, when he came back again—the prisoner put his hand in my lap while I was on the sofa—I was not sitting by his side in a chair—he put his chair close to mine—I sat down in my usual chair, but from 11 o'clock I never sat in a chair at all—I was passing about the room, doing various things—the coat was on the sofa head—I went to sleep while my husband was there—I put my head on the coat—it might have been ten minutes after my husband came from the cellar the second time, that the prisoner went away—it was not half an hour—the prisoner had a pint of ale while my husband was in the cellar the first time—he went down the second time to put the bungs in the barrels, as is usual—he did not turn the prisoner out—the words used to him were, "You are not turned out, it is a pity for you to go out at this time of night"—we have known him three months as a customer.

MR. WILLIAMS. Q. When the lodgers came to the door and said, "Good night" did they go anywhere near the sofa? A. No; the sofa is behind the door.

JAMES GILMORE (Policeman, R 167). On Sunday, 11th October, I was sent for, and took the prisoner into custody—I told him he was charged with stealing a purse containing three sovereigns and ten shillings in silver, from Mr. Quinton's coat pocket—he said, "I am innocent, and I will go with you wherever you wish to take me."

Cross-examined. Q. Did you search his lodgings? A. Yes; I found no money or purse there—I found 6s. 8d. upon him.

The prisoner received a good character.


26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1253
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

1253. JOHN ANDERSON (32) and GEORGE BROWN (21) , Stealing 1 tin box. 1 tunic, 1 gold-lace belt, and other articles, value 50l. the property of Hugh Alexander Douglas, the master of Anderson.

MR. WOOD conducted the Prosecution.

HUGH ALEXANDER DOUGLAS . On 31st August I was a lieutenant in the Royal Artillery, in quarters at Woolwich—the prisoner Anderson was my military servant, and Brown was the servant of Lieutenant Augustus Lavie, an officer in the same service as myself, and having quarters at the same barracks—on 31st August I went away from my quarters, and returned on 12th September—I did not find my place in charge of my servant as I had left it, he had gone—I had to gain admission through the window, and on getting in I found some of my property gone—I missed a tunic, two jackets, a pair of overalls, a gold-lace pouch belt, and sword belt, several spoons and forks, and a tea-pot, a regimental frock coat, a suit of clothes, a coat and waistcoat, several shirts and collars, two pairs of boots, a pair of shoes, a finger ring, and several other articles, with a large uniform tin case, value together about 50l.—I have seen a few shirts and a coat since—Lieutenant Lavie is on his way to India—I did not see him sail, but I know he must have gone, he was under orders to go—he is no longer in Woolwich or in London—my name was on my tin case, on a brass plate—I am not sure about my Christian name, but my surname was on in full—the suit of clothes mentioned were used by Anderson as my servant, but they were my property.

Cross-examined by MR. PATER. Q. What suit of clothes do you speak of? A. Mine; for the use of my servant, used by him—he was my servant—we do not call them orderlies, they are paid as domestic servants—Mr. Lavie

and I were not living together in the same room—I last saw him before I went away, on 31st August—before that time I had no complaint to make against Anderson—before this he was a man of sober habits, and honest and respectable, as far as I knew then.

WILLIAM SNELL . I am a gunner in the Royal Artillery, and one of the military police, stationed at Woolwich—at 7 o'clock on Tuesday evening, 8th September, I went on duty at the dockyard railway Station—about half-past 9 I saw the prisoners there in Company—they had two tin boxes with them, a large one and a small one—I might know the large one again if I saw it—they spoke to me—Brown told me they were going to meet their masters in London—he said that in the hearing of Anderson—I knew Anderson as Lieutenant Douglas's servant—I saw the porter, Thomas Angell, carry the boxes down the platform—the large box was a square one, brown, and the smaller one was the same colour, I think.

Cross-examined. Q. Who was carrying the boxes? A. I saw no one carrying them—I saw them after they were in the Station—I did not go on to the platform—I do not know what became of them after they were taken to the platform—I am not servant to anybody, I serve the Queen—I first saw the boxes in the office, and they were afterwards taken down to the platform by the porter.

THOMAS ANGELL . I am a porter at the Woolwich Dockyard Station—on Tuesday evening, 8th September, I saw the two prisoners come into the office—they had two brown tin square boxes with them, one large and one small—another soldier was with them—he and Andersen carried the big box, and Brown carried the small one—they took two third-class tickets for London, and Anderson asked me to take the large box down—I took it down, and they saw me label it for London—they wanted me to label the small box—it was not properly fastened, and I told them to take it in the carriage with them; Anderson also had a bundle under his arm, wrapped up in a silk handkerchief—there was not a brass-plate on the large box; there was on the small one—I did not see one on the large one—I did not take particular notice of anything.

Cross-examined. Q. If there had been a large brass-plate on the large box, should you have seen it? A. Yes.

HENRY DALE . I am a cab-driver, and live at 55, Royal-terrace, Kennington—about 9.50 on Tuesday evening, 8th September, I was at Londonbridge Station with a cab—a train had just arrived, and I saw the prisoners—they were dressed in plain clothes—they hired my cab—they had two brown Japan tin cases, and a handkerchief-bundle with them—one case was larger than the other—they were rather long and narrow—I noticed them at the time—they had the appearance of officers' tin cases—I had seen officers' tin cases before at the railway—they were put on the top of the cab—they appeared to be full—the prisoners told me to drive to Brownlow-mews, Holborn—I set them down there, and they both went into the house with the cases—they paid me my fare.

THOMAS SMITH . I am a cab-driver, of 5, John's-mews, Bedford-row, Holborn—I was called off the rank at Holborn-hill by Brown—I went to a coffee-shop about forty or fifty yards from the rank, and I took up the two prisoners, who I had never seen before, and two Japan tin boxes, mahogany colour; one was about three feet long, and eighteen inches wide perhaps—I drove them to Petticoat-lane, the whole length of the lane—they told me to go slowly—Lavie was the name on the big box, I fancy—I did not perceive any on the small box—I stopped first at a public-house—the

people were not up, only the servants—we got nothing to drink there, and the boxes were taken in and brought out again, and put into the cab—I then went to another public house by their direction; the boxes were not taken out there—the prisoners went into the house—there were a good many people about there—I saw one man with his arm in a sling—one of the parties about there, not the prisoners, ordered me to go down behind Shoreditch Church—as I was going, I saw the man with the sling again, and he told me to go down the road a little way—when I got a little way down, he seemed to be cross because I had gone so far—he said, "Turn round, and go back"—a stout man was standing on the pavement, and he said, "Follow that man up"—I followed him up to a house in Nichol-square—the boxes were taken out and carried into the house—Anderson went into the house—I never saw Brown after he was at Petticoat-lane till I saw him at Woolwich—there were several people in and put of the house—Anderson went in with the stout man that I followed—there were a good many Jews standing about there, and one man said to me that somebody opposite would pay me my fare—they gave me half a soverign, and said, "Go and get change up at the public-house, and we will come to you"—I stopped there some time—they did not come, and I went a way about my business—I had the whole half-sovereign—it was not the stout man who told me to go to the public-house; they were younger men, of the Hebrew sort, all Jews, I believe.

LYONS (Police-sergeant, L 21). On Saturday night, 12th September, from Information I received, I went to 68, Walnut-tree-walk, Lambeth, and a female named Eliza James gave me up some socks, gloves, and collars; one of the collars is marked Lavie, and the other Douglas—I was with Sergeant-Major Osborn, and Sergeant Newton—the prisoner Brown came into the room while we were there.—Osborn laid hold of him and gave him into my custody for robbing his master—Brown said, "It is a very bad job; I am very sorry for it; I was going to give myself up"—he said he would show us where the property was disposed of—he has not shown us—I have not discovered any of the property since.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you quite sure that Brown used those words? A. Yes, quite—I did not see Anderson there.

HUGH ALEXANDER DOUGLAS (re-examined). This collar is mine.

ELIZA JAMES . I live at 68, Walnut-tree-walk, Lambeth—Brown occupied a room in that house on 12th September—I have seen these things before—I believe Brown brought them to the house—I had met Anderson on 9th at the Canterbury Hall—on the morning of the 10th, I went into the Montpelier Tavern, and from there to a sweetmeat shop in the neighbourhood—Brown came in there, and on the same night he brought these socks and collars to my place—I believe it was in consequence of his having met me in that shop that he went to my house.

Cross-examined. Q. Have the socks been worn a great deal? A. They have been worn, but not much—these gloves are worn by soldiers.

JANE MANN . I am the wife of Thomas Mann, of Graham-street, Lambeth—I know Mrs. Harper—on a Saturday night, three or four weeks ago, she gave me a ring and threepence, to go and redeem a parcel that was in for 12s. at Mr. Harris's, the pawnbroker's, in the name of Brown—it was her own property—I redeemed it, and took it to her—the same night I pledged a coat and a pair of boots for 8s.—I made a mistake and gave the name of Harper instead of Brown.

DANIEL LAITHWAIT . I am in the service of Mr. Harris, a pawnbroker, of

Walworth-road—I produce two shirts pawned at our shop—I have not brought the coat or shoes—the shirts were pledged on 14th September by the last witness for 4s.—the coat and shoes were pledged first, on 10th September, for 12s., and the same coat and shoes were afterwards pledged by Mrs. Harper in the name of Harper—they were redeemed, and pledged again.

ELIZABETH HARPER . I am the wife of John William Harper, of 5, Montpelier-street, Camberwell-gate—on Tuesday evening, 8th September I was at the Montpelier Tavern, and saw the two prisoners and two females in Company—I let the prisoner a room for a week, and Brown paid me 7s. in advance—they brought these clothes to my place—I cannot say who carried them in—on the next morning, Brown sent for me to a public-house and asked me if his friend had come home—I said, "No"—he told me he was going to Wales; that he was a stonemason, and asked me if I could show him a shop where he could buy a flannel-jacket—he afterwards bought a jacket, and asked me if I had anybody who would pledge the coat he took off—I told him there was a pawnshop round the corner—I went in there with him, and he pledged two shirts, a pair of boots, and the coat which he had taken off, in the name of George Brown—when we went to buy the flannel-jacket he had no money, and I gave him the 7s. back that he gave me for the rent—he said he would see his friend and get the money again, but I never got it—he left the pawn-ticket on my dresser—I afterwards sent Mrs. Mann to pledge my husband's ring, and gave her threepence—Brown came the very same evening, Wednesday or Thursday, for those things, and I gave them to him.

JOHN NEWTON . I am a sergeant in the Royal Artillery, at Woolwich—I belong to the military police—I was with Sergeant-Major Osborn when he apprehended the prisoner in Walnut-tree walk—the charges made against him were for desertion and robbing his master—he said, "It is a very bad job; I knew you were in the neighbourhood; I was coming to give myself up"—he said it was the other one's fault; he was very sorry he had done it; he had a good master, and he would further us as much as he could to got the goods back; it was not far from Petticoat-lane, in a square; he did not know the place, but he should know it again if he saw it—he said there was 10l. received for the things—he also said that a few things had been left at the Montpelier Hotel, Camberwell—he said all the gold-lace things had been sold in Petticoat-lane, and in a square close by—he told me that he changed his clothes in Mr. Douglas's quarters.

Cross-examined. Q. What were the words you used when you told him the Charge? A. Osborn said to him, "Brown, I apprehend you as a deserter, and likewise for robbing your master"—I then took a pair of handcuffs out of my pocket, and put them on him immediately—no name was used that I am aware of.

JAMES WARE . I am a corporal in the Royal Artillery—I was on duty on 13th September, and Anderson came and delivered himself up to me.

Cross-examined. Q. As an absentee, I believe? A. Yes.

JOHN RANDALL (Dockyard-policeman). The prisoners were brought to me—I cautioned them, and they made no statement.

The prisoners' Statements before the Magistrate:—Anderson says,—"I only took the suit of clothes that my master gave me to wear, I know nothing about the boxes. "Brown says,—"I know nothing about it—I never stole them."

MR. PATER (to H. A. DOUGLAS). Q. When you left on 31st August, was

Andersen in charge of your quarters? A. Certainly—one door of my room was fastened with a latch-key, which I had; but he had the key of the other door—I never gave him any collars or shirts for himself—I also left him in charge of the things which I lost.

GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months each.

There was another indictment against the prisoners.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1254
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

1254. JOSEPH WINN (32) , Stealing a gelding, the property of Charles Smart . MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM GREEN . I live in Nelson-yard, Old Kent-road—I collect horses for a slaughterer—on the evening of 14th September I was at home—the prisoner came to me, and said, "Will, I have got an old horse to sell"—I went with him to the "World turned Upside Down," in the Old Kent-road, and he sold me a horse for 30s.—he did not tell me how he came by it; I never asked the question—I have known him for many years, and always considered him to be a respectable man—I took the horse to Miss Winkley's, who keeps a slaughterer's yard—it was a bay gelding, lame on the off forefoot, white bind legs, and white star on the forehead—I gave him 30s. for it, and sold it for 32s. 6d. next morning.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. Looking at the condition and age of the horse, was that a fair price? A. Yes, rather more than a fair price—it was completely worn out—I have bought horses of him before—I have known him ten or twelve years, and always found him a respectable, honest man—he sells horses.

RICHARD WILSON . I live in Church-street, Deptford, and am a labourer—on 14th September I was in Deptford Broadway, and saw a brown horse trotting along with some boys following it—I stopped it, turned it round, and took it to the corner of the market-place—the boys said it belonged to Blackheath—I waited there till a policeman came along, and he said, "This horse has been to the station-house two or three times; I will not have it there again"—the prisoner was not present then—he came up after the policeman had gone, with two more men, and asked me whose horse it was—I said I did not know, I was trying to find out—he said, "Let me have the horse, I will try and find out"—I let him have it, and he took it away—there was a little bit of string in its mouth, and he led it off by that.

Cross-examined. Q. Is there any grass in the Broadway, Deptford? A. No—I cannot say whether the two men who came up with the prisoner said anything; they were talking amongst themselves, and they all went away together over the bridge, towards Blackheath, and then they came back again and went down Chertsea, leading the horse—I have known the prisoner all my life—I never knew him otherwise than a decent, respectable man.

CHARLES SMART . I am a greengrocer, at l, Maddox-place, Greenwich-road—on 14th September I had a bay horse, which I turned out to grass on Blackheath—on the following morning I went to look for it, but could not find it—in the evening I went to Miss Winkley's yard, saw the horse there, and took him—I know the prisoner from seeing him about—my horse was lame—2l. was about his value—I have since sold him for 35s.

Cross-examined. Q. How long have you known the horse? A. I had not had him above three weeks.

JAMES MARGETSON (Policeman, R 122). I took the prisoner on 15th September, near Miss Winkley's slaughter-house—I said to him, "Winn, I want to speak to you"—he said, "Hush, don't make a noise"—at that moment another man called across the road, "Winn, I want to speak to you"—I went across with him to this man, who was standing alongside of Miss Winkley—he said to Winn, "You must make arrangements to have

this horse killed to-morrow morning; it can't be killed to-day"—I said to Miss Winkley, "Have you got the horse? who did you buy it of?"—she said, "Mr. Winn"—I said, "I am a policeman, and shall take Winn in custody for stealing it"—he said, "Don't take me now; I got the horse from two men, and was going to take it home"—I took him to the Station, and the prosecutor identified the horse—the prisoner was then taken before the Magistrate—he there said if he was let out on bail, he could find the two men whom he had the horse from—he said two men had come down to hire a booth from him, and he had the horse from them.

The prisoner received a good character.


The following prisoners PLEADED GUILTY:—

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1255
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

1255. CAROLINE ALLEN* (25) , to unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.— Confined Ten Months. — [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1256
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

1256. JABEZ PAYNE (a soldier) (20), to stealing a coat and 7s. in money, of his master.— Confined Twelve Months. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1257
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

1257. GEORGE CANTRILL (39) , to stealing 20 lbs. of solder, and other goods, value 15s., the property of Robert Palmer; also, a quantity of zinc, value 2s., the property of said Robert Palmer, his master; also, 1 trowel, value 2s. 6d., the property of Mary Walsh.— Confined Twelve Months. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1258
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

1258. JAMES HEAL (16) , Stealing 12 lbs. weight of lead, value 1s. 6d., the property of our Sovereign Lady the Queen.

MR. GRANVILLE RYDER conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES ANTHONY (Dockyard-policeman, 68). On the morning of 29th September I was on duty in Deptford Dockyard—I saw the prisoner at the dockyard-gate—he came to repair a gas-lamp that was hanging on the barrack-fence—he went across the dockyard into the barracks, and then out into the street again—I followed him, and he went to Czar-street in the direction of a marine-store dealer's shop—I asked him what he had been doing—he said he had been to get half a pint of beer—I followed him, but I lost sight of him, and then met him—I went to Frank's, the marine-store dealer's, and the woman there gave me these three pieces of lead (produced)—I also produce a ladle which I found in the dockyard—the lead fits it.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Have you tried the lead in any other ladle? A. No—I lost sight of the prisoner for two minutes after he went out of the barracks—I asked the sergeant's permission to allow me to follow him, and it was then I lost sight of him about two minutes—there are beershops in Deptford—he did not go to a beershop, he had not time—the first beershop in that direction is somewhere about sixteen yards from the marine-store shop, on the opposite side—he would have to get the lead weighed, and get the money at the shop—I don't think he would have had time to go sixteen yards further and drink a glass of beer—I think he would have had time to do the other.

MR. RYDER. Q. On which side is the beershop? A. The left-hand side, and the marine-store shop on the right.

MARY FRANKS . I am single, and live with my father Thomas Franks, a marine-store dealer, at Czar-street, Deptford—on Tuesday, 29th September, the prisoner, whom I knew by sight, came into our shop—I was in the inner room, and went out to him—he had got these three pieces of lead in the scale—it was between 10 and 11; I cannot say the exact time—they weighed 12lbs.—I gave him 1s. 6d. for it—he had never been in our shop before.

Cross-examined. Q. How long did you see him? A. Not above two

minutes, I should say; it might be two or three minutes that he was in the shop—I said before that I was certain this was the man—I say now that he is the man who came there—my father serves in the shop when he is at home—my mother was at home and another sister—they could have seen the man if they had looked into the shop—they are not here—I should take this to be old lead—we ask people if things are their own property, and they say, "Yes"—I supposed this man to be respectable—I had seen him about—the policeman came in not more than a minute afterwards—he asked me if the man came in, and I said, "Yes"—he said, "What did he bring?" and I said, "Some lead," and I gave it him—he did not ask me who the man was—I asked him if he was going to take the lead away—he said, "Yes," he must take it to the dockyard—he came and fetched me some time afterwards, and I saw the man in the dockyard, standing in a little room there—the Inspector was there, and the policeman asked me whether that was the man—I said, "Yes"—the policeman did not say anything to me about taking the lead—he did not ask me what inquiries I had made—the Inspector asked me if I knew the man, and I said I did from seeing him about—he did not find fault with me for taking the lead, I am quite sure of that.

MR. RYDER. Q. Have you any doubt whatever about this being the man who came to you on that morning? A. None whatever.

FREDERICK FENN . I live at King-street, Deptford, and have been employed in the dockyard as a labourer—on Saturday week, 20th September, I was working with the prisoner—he ordered me to melt some lead down, because he had broken it up, and we wanted some solder to repair the roof of the vinegar stores—I melted it and threw it under a bench—on the morning he was accused of stealing the lead, I went with the Inspector to look for it—I did, not find it there—it was something like this produced—it was melted in a ladle of this kind, and about this size.

Cross-examined. Q. What sort of lead was it, large or a small pieces? A. Both small and large—I dare say some of the pieces were two feet long, and about six inches wide—they were strips from old roofs, and some pieces of old lead pipe—I threw three pieces under the bench, and a large piece I emptied out of the pot—I don't know how much it weighed—I believe the prisoner has been employed there some time; he is a master plumber—Mr. Smith employs me under him; he is a contractor—I don't know whether it was Mr. Smith's lead—it was old lead.

JOHN LETZER . I live in St. John's-road, Deptford, and am foreman of the works in Deptford Dockyard—the prisoner was employed there as a plumber for George Smith and Co. of Pimlico, who are contractors for ordinary repairs at the dockyard—the lead at the dockyard is the property of the Crown—it would be the prisoner's duty to melt up old lead for certain uses; for those special works—such as making lead-headed nails, and such things required with our lead—the only purpose for his melting the old lead on Saturday, 26th September, would be to clear it out of the metal-pot, and use the lead-pot—the lead was not wanted to use at that time—he had no right to take any lead in the dockyard.

Cross-examined. Q. The prisoner has been employed there four years, I think? A. He has been employed occasionally from 1857, but from 1859, continually—he is working under Mr. Smith—he is a plumber.


26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1259
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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1259. THOMAS BROWN (28) , Stealing 12 lbs. of pork, value 6s. the property of George Bath . MR. NICHOLSON conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM BRAKENBURY . I am in the service of George Barth, a butcher, of Powis-street, Woolwich—on Monday evening, October 12th, between 8 and 9 o'clock, I was in front of the shop selling meat for my master—I was passing a piece of meat to be weighed, when the prisoner placed himself in the gateway, and took a leg of pork from a tray—I followed him very quickly—he ran up against a cart, fell, and I caught him—the pork was picked up close to his side—I took him towards the shop—my master met me, and I went for a policeman—the pork was brought back—he was charged with stealing it, and told the master that he had seen other people do the same.

JAMES ROBERT CHARLES (Policeman, R 182). On 12th October, the prisoner was given into my custody—on the way to the station he said, "I know nothing about the pork."

Prisoner's Defence. I went up the yard to the watering place, and when I came out I heard some one come up; it was a very dark night, and I was taken in charge.

GUILTY .—Recommended to mercy by the JuryConfined Two Months .

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1260
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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1260. PHOEBE MILES (38), PLEADED GUILTY to stealing 2 blankets, 1 bolster, and 2 shirts, the property of James Keefe, after a previous conviction.— Confined Fifteen Months ; and

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1261
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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1261. ELIZABETH MARSTON(20) , to stealing 1 door-mat, the property of the South Eastern Railway Company; also, 1 hearth-rug and a fender of the said Company.— Confined Twelve Months. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

Before Mr. Baron Martin.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1262
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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1262. JOHN ARCHER (19) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of Maria Chappell, and stealing therein 1 shawl, her property.

Mr. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

MATILDA EYRE . I was Miss Chappell—I am since married—at this time. I was single, and living with my mother, Maria Chappell, at 18, Ropewalk, Deptford—I know the prisoner—he lived with his mother down the ropewalk, nearly opposite our house—on Monday night, 28th September, previously to going to bed, I fastened the doors and windows, and left everything secure—I went to bed at 10 o'clock, in what we call the middle room—I was awoke, as near as I can judge, about half—past 1—my mother was awake before me—she woke me—I heard some one shutting the street-door—I got up, opened the window, looked out, and saw John Archer coming out—I saw him cross the road, making his way to his mother's house—I hallooed out to him, "All right, Tripey, I know who you are"—he then ran, and another one joined him close by his mother's house—they both ran through Fishing-smack-alley—I just caught sight of the prisoner's face as he was going from the door—it was a bright, moonlight morning—after this I and my mother went down stairs—I found the parlour window wide open, and the shutters closed—there was a small piece of wood broken off the shutter, near the bolt—I missed this shawl (produced)—I saw it last on the night it was stolen—we left it on the bureau when we went to bed—I called out for the police, and Taver came up—I gave him a description of the prisoner, and how he was dressed.

Cross-examined by MR. DALEY. Q. Did you tell the constable it was Archer? A. No; I did not; but I said I knew him by sight—I said I knew who it was—I did not mention his name, no more than the name I hallooed out—I told him, Tripey—I was married last Monday—I am expecting my confinement very shortly—we have three rooms in our house—

I get my living by what is called "penny-bundling"—I have known the prisoner there a long time—he is quite a respectable young man as far as I know—he has lived opposite for some years—I don't know whether he gets his living the same way as I do—I heard he had been at Mr. Davis's, but I never saw him there—Fishing-smack-alley leads into King-street—the prisoner and the other man afterwards came back into the Ruins—I saw them there while I was giving the alarm to the police, and I hallooed to him to stop them—this shawl was found next morning next door to Digby's garden, by a girl; not in it—he was not tried for that—he got three months for being on some premises in the rope-walk—no charge was made against him about this shawl, that I am aware of—Fishing-smack-alley is about five minutes' walk from our house—I saw them run through that way as I was looking out of the window—I did not describe the other man—the prisoner wore a cap—he was running when I hallooed to him—when I went down stairs I missed the shawl—we came up stairs again, looked out of the window, and saw the police in New-street—at that time the two men were in the ruins—I hallooed to the policeman, who was in New-street on duty, to stop him, for I knew the one with the white jacket and he chased him—the prisoner wore a white jacket—I don't know what became of them—the prisoner was taken into custody, I think, the following Wednesday—I had not seen him about his place every day, as I know of—I never saw him at his house—our house was broken into on the Tuesday night or Wednesday morning—I think the prisoner was arrested the Wednesday week after that—he was then taken in his bed—I don't know whether I told the policeman it was Archer the same night, or not.

COURT. Q. As I understand you, you hallooed to a policeman to follow the two men? A. Yes, and he set after them.

SAMUEL TAVER (Policeman, R 239). About half-past 1 on Tuesday morning, 22d, in consequence of hearing a cry of "Police!" I went to a place called "The Ruins," facing the last witness's house—I saw her looking out of the bed-room window—she spoke to me—on going to the Ruins I saw two persons there in a back yard, one was dressed in a dark coat, and a cap, and the other in a black jacket—that one got over a wall, and got away—I chased the other, but there being two outlets he got into the street, and also escaped—I returned to the last witness—she told me she knew who they were—I went and got another constable, and she described the men to him.

Cross-examined. Q. I think you went and examined the shutters on this night? A. I did, and went into the house after chasing the men—the witness said she knew the man, and described him, but did not tell me his name—I did not hear it was the prisoner till next day, or the day after—my brother constable then told me—the prisoner was taken a week afterwards—Digby was found in the closet of another house, and was supposed to be one of the parties connected with the robbery—he got three months as a rogue and a vagabond.

JAMES CROUCH (Policeman, R 92). About 2 o'clock on, the morning in question, I went to the prosecutrix's house—I saw the daughter, and she gave me a description of two persons—she told me one was Tripey—I asked her his other name, and she said, "Tripey Archer"—I did not ask her where he lived—my brother constable and I went and looked round, we found Digby, but she could not identify him—next day the prosecutrix told me where the prisoner lived, and I went to his place in the middle of the night, but did not find him—I did not go again for a week, till I heard he was at home—I then went at half-past 5, and find him in bed asleep—his mother

and little brothers were in the room—I roused him, and told him I was going to take him across the road to Mrs. Chappell's, as they said he had broken into the house, and I asked him to account where he was at the time—he said he was at Greenwich, and knew nothing of it—I took him to the witness, and she identified him—his dress corresponded with her description—I received the shawl next day—it was found by a little girl in a yard between Digby's mother's house, and the prisoner's mother's yard—I did not see it found.

Cross-examined. Q. How far was that from the Ruins? A. About as far as the end of the jury-box—there is a long garden between.

The prisoner received a good character .— Confined Twelve Months.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1263
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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1263. JOHN SULLIVAN (25) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of Thomas Newton, and stealing 28 boots, value 7l. his property.

MR. LILLEY conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS NEWTON . I am a boot and shoe maker, of Westow-hill, Forest-hill—I have also a house at 5, Church-street, Deptford—on the night of 30th September, I left that house about half-past 10—I locked the shop up, and put the key in my pocket—I left my little nephew and an old man, who works for me, in the house—they had gone to bed—I returned at twenty minutes before 12—I had some difficulty in opening the door—I did not examine my shop that night—I merely went in, and locked the door, and went to bed—on the following afternoon I made an examination; I found the door had been forced open; the screw of the latch had been forced right through—I missed fourteen pairs of strong boots, value 7l.—the prisoner had worked for me about a month before—I received some information from the witness Brown that day, in consequence of which I gave information to the police, and went with them and saw the prisoner taken into custody.

Prisoner. Q. Did not you meet me and two more men that evening at East Greenwich? A. I saw you there at 8 o'clock at night, and I told you I might be back at 10 o'clock, when the shop was shut up—I had seen you at my shop, about 5, that afternoon, with three or four others, and turned you out as you were tipsy.

CHARLES BROWN . I am potman at the Druid's Head, opposite Mr. Newton's shop—on the night in question; about half-past 10 o'clock, the prisoner and another man were in our house drinking together—when I had shut up the shop I was sent out to post some letters; about five minutes to 11—I saw prisoner and the other man walk straight out of our house to go to the prosecutor's door, and begin knocking for about five minutes,; they could not make anybody hear—I went to post the letters, and then saw the other man inside the prosecutor's shop, behind the counter, and the prisoner outside the door—I heard a noise as though they were ransacking the place—I had know them before—I knew the prisoner when he worked for Mr. Newton, and I did not think anything of it—when I returned from thepost-office the door was closed, and the men gone—next day I gave information to Mr. Newton of what I had seen.

JAMES BERRITT (Policeman, R 224). I apprehended the prisoner in Church-street, Deptford, on 2d October, on the charge of breaking into the prosecutor's house—he said he knew nothing about it; he was not there at the time.

Prisoners Defence. I was not there at the time.


26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1264
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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1264. JOHN O'FARRELL (36, a soldier,) Stealing rings and other goods, value 3l. 15s. the property of Henry Pulley, in his dwelling-house, and afterwards burglariously breaking out.

MR. HARRY PALMER conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY PULLEY . I keep a fancy repository in Evelyn-street, Deptford—on the morning of 2d October, about a quarter or twenty minutes to 5, I was awoke by hearing a crash of glass—my wife and I got up and endeavoured to find what it was—I was putting on my clothes to come down stairs when I heard another crash—I looked out of my bedroom window and saw the prisoner struggling to get out of the glass door which forms the entrance to a private passage—he was in uniform, as he is now—the glass door leads to a passage, with a gate at the end—the prisoner endeavoured to get through the passage, but he seemed strange to the place—I raised a cry of "Police!" and the prisoner was secured by some young men who came out of a coffee-house—I could not say that he was the worse for liquor, but his breath smelt, and indicated that he had been drinking—I believe he knew perfectly well what he was about—he wanted to make out that he had run in on hearing the cry of "Police;" but when I looked out of the window I saw him struggling to get out of the glass door, and I did not lose sight of him, till I saw him in the hands of the police—his hands were all over blood, from being cut with the glass, and were bleeding profusely—directly he was secured I made an examination, and missed three wedding rings and other articles—these gold plated vases I did not miss till. I saw them at the station—they are mine—this bag of coppers was kept in a drawer, which it had been wrenched open—here are two brooches and other things; I can swear they were all secure in my shop the night before—I believe the prisoner had managed to secrete himself in the house; he did not break in—the shop had been closed at a quarter to 10—there were two glass doors broken; one leading from the sitting room into the hall, at the back, and another from the hall into the passage—I am quite sure the prisoner is the man I saw breaking through the window; I never took my eyes off him.

Prisoner. Q. How many stories high is your house? A. My bed room is over the door you were trying to get out at; not immediately over, but in a slanting direction—I could see you struggling to get out—I did not see you in the house—I saw the best part of your body projecting out of the glass door—I could see your coat, but not your trousers.

WILLIAM JONES . I am a waterman, at 6, Wellington-place, Deptford—on 2d October, about 4 or 5 in the morning, I was in a coffee-shop, next door but one to Mr. Pulley's—I heard cries of "Police!" and "Stop thief!"—I and three more ran out—we shoved open the passage door leading to Mr. Pulley's house, and saw the prisoner moving about—Mr. Pulley was looking out of the window—he said, "Secure him till I come down"—I and another man went to catch hold of him, and he struck one of us in the month—we caught hold of him—he said, "What do you want"—we said, we did not know"—he said, "Wait a minute; let me go," and he stooped down and dropped these articles—I picked up almost all of them—I am quite sure that he dropped them—he continued pulling things out of his pockets, and chucking them about—I saw this bag of half-pence lying on the step of the door—the window was broken all to pieces, and the prisoner's hands were bleeding—he said to me, "What did you cut my hand for?"—I had not done so; I had no knife—by this time a policeman came up, and he was given into custody.

JAMES CHEESEMAN (Policeman, R 168). On 2d October, I was on duty about 100 yards from the prosecutor's house—in consequence of information I went there, and found the prisoner detained by four persons in the passage—I asked him how he came there—he said by hearing "Police" halloed; he went after the man—I asked how his hands came to be all over blood—he said one of the men had cut his hand with a knife—he was standing with his hand in his pocket—he pulled it out, and dropped three or four brooches out of his pocket—he then put his hand in his breast, and threw some of these other things away—I turned my light round the passage, and saw the rings and guards lying about—I took him to the station—he was searched in my presence, and this pair of spectacles was found on him, and some small tickets.

HENRY PULLEY (re-examined.) These spectacles were in my shop that night.

Prisoners Defence. I was on pass that night, and was coming along when I heard the gentleman sing out; I ran in along with the rest, and being conspicuous by my red coat, they fixed upon me. I believe the spectacles, and a few tickets, were shoved into my pocket at the time; I have been a marine close upon seventeen years, and have borne a good character, and was in the Crimea, and all through the China war, and only came home last November; there are witnesses who know I was along with them at 12 o'clock that night.

GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Month.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1265
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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1265. ROBERT DAVIDSON (22) , Unlawfully assaulting William Brian.

MR. LE BRETON conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM BRIAN . I live at 11, , and am a labourer in the Arsenal—we are paid our wages on Saturday, and left work at 1 o'clock on that day—on the Saturday in question, I went home, had some dinner, and cleaned myself—I stopped indoors a good part of the afternoon, and then went to a public-house; I forget the name of it—it was after tea; between 6 and 8 o'clock—I drunk but a small quantity—about 12 o'clock, that night, I was in the Woolwich Arsenal-road, which leads from Woolwich Arsenal to the railway—station—some people were fighting—I had a friend with me named, McCarthy—he was fighting there—I interfered to separate them, and some men attacked me—I was afraid of them, and ran back again and laid hold of some rails—I thought I should get protection from their knocking me on the road—as I went towards the rails I called out "Police!"—some of the men came up to me first, and began to strike me again, and about a minute or two after, I think, a policeman came up—I took his number the same night—the prisoner is the man; he was in uniform—I asked him, if he was a policeman, to save my life, and that if he wished to lock me up, I would go quietly with him—he had hold of me then—he struck me before that—I did not know he was a policeman when he first came—his hat went over the rails when he hit me first—he first struck me on the back of the neck, and then on the side of the head, and then knocked me with his knee very hard in the side—he laid hold of the collar of my coat—this is the coat I had on (producing one)—he tore it, and I could not wear it afterwards—when I saw he was a policeman I let go of the railings—I saw his hat on him again after a time—he then took me to the station—a. negro assisted in taking me along, but he did not strike me to my knowledge—he told me several times to give the officer 2s. and he would let me go, and then the prisoner asked me—I did not give him two shillings, but said I would report him to the inspector when I went inside

—Davidson said, when we got near the station, "Give me two shillings and I will let you go"—my face was then covered with blood, and I had been very much ill used—as we were going to the station, the prisoner struck me at different times with his fist, and shoved me with his knee in the left side—when we got to the station, some more of the men came in, and Davidson asked some of them, "Who charges the man?"—they were persuading one another, and the black man was persuading some of them—there was one man, I believe, who had his coat torn—he gave his name as Daley afterwards, and the black man said to him, "You have got your coat torn; you charge him"—I was listening to them; at the same time the policeman charged me—I did not take notice of what he was doing at the time, I was noticing the others—when I was going to make a statement to the inspector the policeman shoved me back, and told me to keep silent—I was then locked up until the next morning, which was Sunday, and then bailed out—I did not know any of the parties that were there; they were all strangers to me—I appeared before the Magistrate on the Monday, and was remanded till the Friday—Daley did not appear on the Monday—I was discharged on Friday—two policemen were shoving me out of the Court, and the Magistrate called me back and asked me if I had any complaints against anybody, and I then charged Davidson with assaulting me—he was present at the time—I thought I was nearly dead after this knocking about, some of the people said they did not think I should live till morning—I walk with a stick, because my leg is hurt, and I got an injury afterwards on the shin at work—my hip is a little sore now from the knocking I had—I was sober enough to know all that was going on that night.

Cross-examined by MR. ATKINSON, (with MESSRS. SLEIGH and NICHOLSON). Q. Did you go to work on Monday after this matter? A. Yes, and worked until three weeks yesterday—I had an accident to my leg—I went to work with my bad hip, but it was very sore—I know a man named Trenham—he has not been advising me in this matter—did not know him before that time—he has acted with me in this—I have seen him a good deal—I generally have my tea after 6—on this Saturday, after my tea, I went down the market at Woolwich—I had my purchases with me; it was only a few things—I generally keep what I buy, in my pockets—I had some envelopes and paper, and newspapers that night—I took those to the public-house—I did not leave any behind me there—I kept them in my pocket—I could not say what time I left there—I stopped there about half an hour—I walked down the market, looking about; I generally walk down to look—I can write a little.

COURT. Q. You mean by the market, stalls on each side of the highway? A. Yes—I generally walk down to look at the things when I have time.

MR. ATKINSON. Q. Were you in more than one public-house that night? A. I was not—I was walking about the streets—I was only half an hour in the public-house—I had some ale and beer mixed; no gin or whisky; no spirits whatever—it was a very fine night when I went out of the public-house; it commenced raining as I was going home about 12 o'clock—when I met my friend McCarthy, he was drunk, and I was assisting him home, when he ran on in front of me, and ran against these people who were fighting—I afterwards heard there was a gentleman's servant there—I did not know what he was then—I did not hear a cry of "Police" before mine—I did not attempt to fight—McCarthy was fighting with another man——I did not know the man—I heard afterwards that he was a gentleman's servant—I believe the parties took his part because he was drunk, and began to fight

my friend and I—they struck me for nothing else, but because I tried to get my friend away—I hallooed out "Police!" as loud as I could—I did not strike at the prisoner when he came up to me at the railings, and knock his hat off—his hat went over the railings when he hit me; my hands were through the railings, and I was on my knees—they were railings in front of a house—there were other people round me at that time, but they took off when the prisoner came up—they had been round me, and were striking me—the prisoner struck me before he took me by the collar—I never struck him at all—I was quite sober—I am a very quiet man—I was charged before a Magistrate with an assault and fined; not more than once for an assault—I don't know how much I was fined—I have been before the Magistrate twice; they were not both for assaults—the first time I was fined; I did not pay it, somebody else paid it for me; on the second occasion I was discharged—I was brought up for being drunk; I said I was not, and I was discharged; I was not drunk—at the station I wanted to charge the prisoner with offering to let me go for money, but I was silenced and prevented from doing it, and a man who came in and wanted to state the truth for me was shoved out.

MR. LE BRETON . Q. How long ago was it that you were charged with assault and fined? A. I believe it was more than two years ago—that is the only time I was convicted in England—I shall have been in the service of the Arsenal three years next April.

JAMES TRENHAM . I am an engineer, of 24, Havelock—terrace, Plumstead—I am on the suspension list now from the Royal Arsenal—I formerly worked at the Royal Arsenal—on Saturday, 19th September, about 12 o'clock, I was in Station—row, and saw some men fighting there—I saw Brian trying to separate the combatants—he ultimately ran away and called out "Police! police! police!" in a very loud voice; about a minute and a half or two minutes afterwards a policeman came up—the prisoner is that man—Brian was then standing thirty-four yards from the corner, where the former fighting was, near some iron railings—he ran to the railings, and went down on his knees, with his face to the railings—he said to the prisoner, "Don't kill me," and after that he said, "If you wish to take me to the station I will walk quietly"—the prisoner then took him by the collar, with his right hand, and struck him with his left fist, and attempted to pull him up from where he was—he was holding fast by the railings with his hands—he ultimately succeeded in pulling Brian up—the prisoner had no hat on at that time—I did not see anybody knock it off—I did not see Brian touch the hat—a man named Joseph Webb brought the prisoner his hat—I had known him some three weeks, from seeing him about—after the prisoner had got his hat, he took the prosecutor into the road, took his hand off his collar, and then pushed it back, punched his face, and then he punched him with his knee—he did that both against the railings and in the road—his knee went against the prosecutor's hip—there was a black man there—the prisoner called him "Charlie," and he came and assisted him on the road to the station—the black man asked Brian if he had any money—he named the sum, five shillings, and if so, and if he would give it to the officer he would let him go—Brian did not say anything to that in my hearing—when they got into William-street, the black man asked him again and again if he had two shillings—he repeated that full seven times; the last time he said it, Brian made a sort of refusal—I could not distinctly hear or understand, in the excited state he was in; his face was dirty and bleeding at that time—after Brian made that answer, the prisoner said,

"Oh, if you will not, I will press the charge, and lock you up"—that was within a few yards of the station—I went into the station with them—no one made a charge against Brian at first—Davidson asked several of them, "Who charges this man?"—he said to several, "is it you?"—they said, "No," and then he came to Daley, and said, "Oh, you have got your coat torn, what is your name?" and so then the charge was made out in Daley's name, and Daley did not know what he was doing—he was not sober—he was not very drunk, but he was drunk—he did not know the nature of the questions put to him, or why he signed the sheet—he confessed that on the following day, and said he was sorry for what he had done—Brian wished to explain his case, but he was not allowed, the prisoner prevented him—then another of the witnesses, Sullivan, wished to make an explanation, and he was not heard—the prisoner shoved him so that he went down on his hands, his hat fell off, and the prisoner kicked the crown of it in—Sullivan picked his hat up and the prisoner ordered him out—Sullivan said, "I will go out if the inspector orders me"—ultimately the inspector said, "You had better go out for a while," and he went out—the black man assisted to take Brian into the cell, and then I went away—Brian was quite sober—I do not think he was exactly clear—I believe he had had liquor, but he was sober—he was very much excited by the fighting and the ill—usage he had received; he was panting for breath—on the Monday after, I went before the Magistrate—I was not asked by anybody to go, neither did I know Brian at all—I had never seen him in my life before—the charge was made of assaulting Daley—Daley did not appear, and the prisoner knew that he did not intend to appear, he was told so—I was called in after the prisoner had made his statement—Brian was remanded till Friday, on his own recognisances, in 10l.—I went again on the Friday of my own accord—the prisoner and Daley were there then—the Magistrate inquired of Daley why he did not appear on the Monday, and he said one reason was that his father did not wish him to, another reason was that he did not want it known that he had been out so late, and another thing was, he said, that Brian had never assaulted him—he said that he did have a fall, but it was in the struggling to support one of the combatants—Mr. Trail asked him why he signed the charge—sheet, and he said because they asked him to sign it.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you employed as an engineer in the Arsenal? A. Yes; my wages were 25s. 8d.—that is not the wages of the labourers there—I had been working in the same road where this row took place till after 10 o'clock—I was suspended for shortness of work—I was not on the sick list; I was once, some three years ago—between the time I left work and half-past 12, I went to buy half an ounce of tobacco, and then went into the market on my way home—I was walking about for nearly two hours—I did not see the first fighting; I heard it, but did not go near it—there was a great tumult—there were no cries at all—I saw Brian trying to support his friend—I did not try and support too, I looked on—Brian ran to the railings, and two or three more followed him—I would rather not say whether they struck him or not—he was struck, but whether it was by those who ran after him, or by the parties who closed in across the road, I do not know—I saw the gentleman's servant, whose name is Bennett, come away from the first fray, and close in at the second—I don't know whether he had been beaten in the first fray, but he beat in the second—he commenced fighting with Brian's friend, McCarthy—a man named Dinam took Bennett's part by holding his coat and hat, while he fought——I saw the

prisoner come up to the railings at that time—there had been cries from Brian and Sullivan—I don't know whether the prisoner had his hat on when he came up—Brian first called "Police," as he ran from the fight to the railings—I saw the prisoner's hat brought out of the area by Webb—I did not see it knocked off Webb—Sullivan and myself followed to the station—Dinam came about forty or fifty yards, and then he turned back to receive a bundle he had left along with the coat and hat, and then overtook us again within about ten or twenty yards of the station—Daley also followed, and a man named Stevens—they were not in such a favourable position for hearing what took place as I was—I was close behind Brian—I was not there the whole distance—there was not a railway porter there going to the station—I don't know whether there was one at the railings—Sullivan went to the station to get help—I was not there—(A porter named Semper was here called into Court)—I did not see that man at the railings—I thought the black man was a seaman on board H. M. S. Fisguard, and said so—I have heard that he has gone to Gibraltar—I don't know that—I say that that black man told Brian seven times, to give the officer two shillings—I cannot say whether the others who were following were in such a position as that they could hear that; I only know my own position positively—if the prisoner had looked he must have seen me—I also say that he said, "Oh, if you will not, I will lock you up and press the charge"—when he said that, he had a reasonable opportunity of knowing I was there—I have attended to all the calls I have had in this matter—I was not engaged yesterday in reading over to the witnesses for the prosecution, the evidence that was taken before the Magistrate, nothing at all—I will swear that—I never had a copy of the depositions, or saw them, except when they were read over to us—I did not take notes of the evidence—I read no newspaper or report, to the witnesses yesterday—I saw them yesterday before the Grand Jury, and was in the waiting-room with them all the day—I was in a public-house with them yesterday—we had one pint of beer in the middle of the day, and another in the evening, after the Court was over—nothing was read over to the witnesses in ray presence by any other person, at any time or at any place yesterday, about this trial; I swear that—Sullivan was not very drunk; he was what I should call sober—he had been drinking—he was not put out of the station for being drunk.

MR. LE BRETON . Q. Can you swear that Brian did not strike the policeman's hat off? A. I can swear that positively—I don't think Sullivan was any the worse for liquor—he had been drinking, but he knew what he was about; he described the case so accurately that night, and he would have told Inspector Brown, but they prevented his being heard, and Brian would have done the same, but he was so ill-treated—I held my peace until the Monday, and then gave ray evidence before the Magistrate.

COURT. Q. Did you see Brian as he ran out from the fight? A. Yes; the second fight—he was not bleeding at the face then.

MR. ATKINSON. Q. You stated before the Magistrate that Sullivan was knocked down in the office? A. I say so now, in the way I have described—the prisoner shoved him behind the neck with his open right hand, and he went down on his hands.

DANIEL SULLIVAN . I am a tailor, at 11, Witford-place, Plumstead—I saw this disturbance in the Station-road on 19th September, about half-past 12 o'clock—a man named Thomas Stevens, Dinam, and myself, were standing up in company, as it was raining very hard—a man named Bennett was coming from the direction of Plumstead, and Brian and McCarthy together,

coming from Woolwich—McCarthy looked to me as if he was drunk—words occurred between him and Bennett—Brian saw it was coming to a quarrel and he came between them and separated them—Dinam said, "Halloo Bennett, my friend, what is up?"—Bennett was drunk, and he took off his coat to fight McCarthy—I don't know Bennett at all—he had not a livery on—I don't know who held Bennett's coat—Dinam ran to an oyster stall to leave a bundle there—they began to fight, and Bennett fell down on to McCarthy—about nine or ten more came up who seemed to know Bennett—Dinam also came up after them and struck Brian—he staggered with the blow he got, and then a man named Daley came up and struck Brian too—I turned round to Dinam, and said, "What a shame it is, Tom, to take and beat that man for trying to make peace"—he said he did not care, for Bennett was his friend—Brian then made a retreat towards Green's-end, and got up against some iron railings—about five or six followed him, and began punching him against the rails—I said, "What a shame to treat a man in such a manner"—he began crying "Police," and "Murder," and I ran to the railwaystation—he was the first to cry out "Police,"—the collector at the station asked me what was the matter, and I told him and went back—a policeman was there when I got back—he had hold of Brian by the right hand, and was punching him in the jaw with his left—the policeman was the prisoner he also struck Brian going down Thomas-street, and jobbed him with his knee on the hip and leg—I said to the prisoner, "What a shame it is for you to ill-treat that man, he has got quite enough without your bitting him"—his face was covered with blood at that time—the prisoner said, "If you are not off, I will serve you the game in about two minutes"—going down Thomas-street I heard Brian tell him that he would make a complaint to the inspector about his ill-treatment to him and the prisoner up with his fist and struck him again—I went into the station-house and offered to make a complaint to the inspector about the policeman's treatment of Brian, and as I was going to do so, the prisoner caught hold of me, pushed me round and said, "You don't know anything about it"—my hat fell off—I stooped to pick it up, and he gave. it a kick and kicked the crown in—I turned round and said, "Don't ill-treat me; if the inspector tells me to go out, I will"—he told me to go out for a while—I afterwards came back to the station, and the prisoner pushed mo out into the street—I said I did not care about standing there in the wet, so I would reserve my evidence till before the Magistrate—on the Monday morning I went before the Magistrate and gave my evidence.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you a journeyman or a master tailor? A. A journeyman—I finished my week's work at half-past 9 that night, and was paid my wages—I went to the Pioneer beer-shop—I stayed there about twenty minutes, and then went up to the Gun Tavern, where I met Stevens and Dinam—I dare say I was there about an hour and a quarter—we stayed as long as they would let us: till they closed the house—I had a pint of half-and-half there, and a glass of ale with my wife—I was not drunk when I came out—perhaps I was not so sober as I am now—Bennett was drunk—Brian looked to me to be sober—he was hit hard by Dinam because he staggered—there were five or six men about him after that, striking him in the face and about the ribs—there were two fights—the first fight they got separated by Brian—the first fight was no fight—Brian was not struck in the first business—Brian put his face against the railings, and tried to protect himself—the railings might come up to about his chin—he stooped down with his face against the railings, they struck him about the ribs, the

side of the head, and different places—at that time the policeman had not come up—he had his hat on when I saw him first—I saw nothing that took place until he had his hat on—I followed them down to the station, till the prisoner threatened me, and then I kept a distance behind—I was not knocked down in the station—the prisoner took hold of me by the coat and turned me round—I reached after my hat and he kicked it away and bulged the crown in—I am a very quiet man generally—I was in custody once, only once—I am an Englishman, my father is an Irishman—I was charged with being disorderly—I was bailed out and got discharged on the Monday morning.

MR. LE BRETON . Q. That evening after you left off work, did you go with your wife into Woolwich? A. Yes; to do some marketing—after Brian was struck by Dinam he seemed to be bleeding out of the mouth—I did not see any blood on his cheeks—after the policeman had struck him, he was covered with blood, bleeding out of the mouth and nose.

JOSEPH WEBB . I live at 12, Taylor's-buildings, Woolwich, and am a hammerman in the dockyard—I have been in the Government employ about three years and a half altogether—on the night of Saturday, 19th September, about half-past 12, I was at an oyster-stall in the Station-road—I did not see the first fight—when I came up to where the scrimmage was, Brian was holding the iron railings, and the policeman (I was not aware he was a policeman then) had no hat on—some one said his hat was down the area—I fetched his hat up from the area, and gave it to him—I then found out that he was a policeman—it was the prisoner—he had hold of Brian by the collar with one hand, and was punching him with the other hand on the side of the head and face—I saw him strike him six or eight times—at that time Brian had hold of the rails stooping down, and after he loosed the rails, I saw the prisoner strike him again twice—I made the first remark—I said, "D—it all; that is quite enough"—I followed down to the station—Brian went quietly along, but the policeman put his legs twice between Brian's legs to try to trip him—Brian nearly fell on both occasions—I saw a dark man there part of the time—he had hold of Brian too—he was helping the policeman—I heard the black man mention something to Brian about money, but I was not near enough to hear the precise words—I went into the station—I saw Sullivan caught hold of by the prisoner, twisted right round, and pushed out—his hat fell off, and the prisoner kicked it, and ordered him out—Sullivan said, "If the inspector tells me to go out I will walk out"—the inspector asked him to go out, and he walked out directly—I did not go before the Magistrate till the Thursday after, I think—Brian asked me to go and say what I knew about the affair—the prisoner came to me first, and asked me if I knew anything about the disturbance—I told him I did—he said, "Did you see me strike the man Brian?"—I said I saw him strike him six or eight times, and I could swear to it—I said then that I should not have anything to do with it; neither would I if I had not been asked.

Cross-examined. Q. Who requested you to come here? A. Brian—Trenham and I were talking together at the time of this row—I have seen him since, about coming up here—I was out with my oysters on this night—I sell oysters for ray landlord, at his stand—I sell oysters at night after my work is over—I go to work at 6 in the morning, and am usually out till 10 at night, with the exception of Saturday; I am later on Saturday nights—I saw no one striking Brian at the railings, except the prisoner—I did not see the prisoner's hat knocked off—I have been once charged before the

Magistrate; it was for buying a scaffold pole, and I was let out on my own recognisances to find the man—I was not absent for twelve months after that—I was fined twenty shillings for not appearing, as I understood it.

MR. LE BRETON . Q. What was this about the scafford-pole? A. I bought it of a man outside a public-house—I did not know it was stolen—I asked him if it was his own, and he said, "Yes;" and I gave him what he asked for it.

COURT. Q. What do you mean by saying, "I have since seen Trenham about coming here"? A. He asked me the night I had my subpoena if I had heard anything more about coming up, and I said, "Yes; I had just got my subpoena"—we had scarcely two words about the facts of this case—he has not read over any paper or depositions to me, or anything of that sort; only my own paper—I was in a public-house yesterday with him, and the other witnesses—no paper or account of this was read over to me by anybody, as I recollect, or in the waiting-room below—no one read over anything to me, to my knowledge—I was there with the other witnesses.

Witnesses for the Defence.

JAMES BRYAN . I am a porter, at the Arsenal Railway-station, Woolwich, and have held that situation for many years—on 10th September, I was sitting in the office, and heard a great noise—I was coming out to see what it was, and I met Sullivan at the office door—the porters at that time had gone out—Sullivan called out "Police!"—I told him there were no police there—I then walked over after him to where the mob was assembled—I saw the prisoner—he had got hold of Brian by one of his arms—I think it was his right arm, and his left arm, I think, was round his body—he was trying to get him from the railings—he ultimately succeeded—the policeman's hat was off at that time—I did not see Brian strike him, nor did I see him strike Brian—there was a great mob; from fifty to eighty people—I did not see anybody strike Brian at that time—I saw his face covered with blood, but I did not see the constable strike him.

Cross-examined by MR. LE BRETON. Q. Did you go down to the station? A. I did not; I saw nothing of what took place there.

COURT. Q. You went away when you saw him in custody in the road? A. Yes, I went back to the station—there was a train due shortly—Sullivan did not seem to me to be drunk when I saw him—he seemed to walk steady, and called "Police!"

THOMAS STEVENS . I live at 11, Brickhill, Woolwich, and am a shoemaker—on 20th September, I was standing up under shelter from the rain with Dinam and Sullivan, when Brian and another party came up, both intoxicated—they wanted to quarrel with us—we would have nothing to do with them—a gentleman's servant, named Bennett, came up alone, and Brian's friend, McCarthy, hit Bennett on the back of the head, and knocked him down—Brian and McCarthy, they went on by the Bull in Bull-fields, and fought with another man, named Daley—they beat him, and almost tore him to pieces; several got round, and Brian and McCarthy ran away—the people hallooed out, "Stop him;" and the constable (the prisoner) who was just round the corner, caught Brian in his arms—Brian up with his fist, struck the constable, and knocked him down on his knee—he got up momentarily, and seized hold of Brian—Brian hung to the iron railings, and the prisoner had a good deal of trouble to get him away—Brian knocked the policeman's hat off down the area, struggling with him, just after he got the first blow—it was another blow that did that—one of the porters of the railway then seized hold of Brian's hand, and kept it to get him away, and

they got him away from the railings; another constable asaisted the prisoner in Cross-street—as they were going up towards the station, Brian tried to stumble two or three times—when they got there he was charged by Daley—not a word passed between the prisoner and Brian on the way to the station—I was there from the beginning to the end of the row—I saw a black man there—money was not mentioned by the prisoner, or by any. body else in my hearing—I was close to him, and must have heard if it had been so—Sullivan was drunk—he had had plenty of drink, I know—he would not have been put out of the station if he had not been drunk.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you go into the station? A. I did—I saw Daley give Brian in charge—Sullivan and Trenham came in, and Sullivan was rather noisy—Daley said, "I give Brian in charge"—Daley was quite sober—Brian was most too far gone to open his mouth much—he was intoxicated—there was blood on his face through his getting in trouble at the first commencement of it—Brian tried to stumble to get away—the policemen had much trouble to keep him up—the black man did not have hold of him, only the two constables; he did not meddle at all with it, he was behind: I don't know how far—I did not trouble myself about him at all—I think the porter went away after he released Brian's hands from the rails—it was not the porter who has been examined just now, but the other one—I was close to the parties as they went to the station—I did not go before the Magistrate till the next week following—no one asked me to go—my name was in the Woolwich paper, and I thought it was a cruel piece of business, and I went on the following week—the prisoner did not come to me, or any of the policemen—I left off business about 8 o'clock on this night, and then went down to a friend's house, where I generally go—I had drink there, but I knew how to conduct myself—I saw a man pick the prisoner's hat up; I was going, and I sent a man who is on their side to pick it up.

MR. ATKINSON. Q. The oyster-man picked it up? A. Yes; I have no interest whatever in this matter—I went on my own account to give an account of it.

COURT. Q. What day did you go before the Magistrate? A. I think it was on a Thursday—I went there because a friend of mine, who is outside, told me all about it—he said the policeman had got into trouble about this case, and we all went up together; when I had friends round me who asked me to come up, of course I went—Mr. Dinam asked me to come up on the Thursday—he is here—I ran after Brian and McCarthy when they ran away, and watched them—McCarthy was worse than Brian—he ought to have been taken in charge—he commenced the row—several called out "Stop, thief!"—I only observed one call out "Police!"—I think that was Dinam—some one called out "Police," two or three times—the policeman's hat was on, till they came close to the railings—the policeman held Brian with his left hand, by the coat collar, and Brian tried to get away—he kept hallooing, because he did not want to be locked up—I did not hear any words used; he was screaming out as if the people were killing him—he did not say they were killing him—policeman, 216 came up just as they got away from the railings in Cross-street, and took hold of Brian on the other aide, and took him to the station—he tried to stumble, and get away three or four time; Trenham was sober, I believe—I did not know him before—I saw one of the policemen put Sullivan out—it was not the prisoner—he was not pushed out; he was taken by the arm, and walked out—he had his hat

on when he came in, and took it off inside—I did not see it kicked out—Dinam and I were perfectly sober, and Sullivan was perfectly drunk.

JOHN SIMPER . I am a porter at the Arsenal Railway-station—I was on duty there on 20th September at midnight—about a quarter to 1, I heard something which attracted my attention—these railings are, I suppose, about fifty yards from the railway station door—I went there, and saw Brian clinging to them—he was drunk—there were persons round him; one struck him, I don't know who it was—at that time the prisoner came up and asked what was the matter—a man, I don't know who, told him that Brian had been striking him, and he wished to give him into custody—the prisoner then took hold of Brian's arm and shoulder, and endeavoured to get him away; finding he could not, he called me to his assistance—I went over and took hold of Brian's left arm—I had Been the prisoner before; he knew me—a man, who stood behind me, then struck Brian four or five times in the face, over my shoulder—the prisoner did not strike him—the man struck the blows over my shoulder—I pushed the man out of the way, and the prisoner told the man not to strike him—I saw no more of the man—when we got Brian away from the railings, another constable came up—the prisoner did not strike Brian between that time and our getting him away from the railings—he did not put out his feet to throw him down—I saw a black man there—I followed the policeman and Brian about 200 yards, towards the station, close to them; as far as Green's-end—one had hold of his right, and the other of his left arm—as far as I went, I did not hear anything said by the black man or the prisoner about two shillings or money—Brian appeared mad drunk—that was the impression he made upon me, when he was at the railings.

Cross-examined. Q. In what position was Brian at the rails when you first saw him? A. He had his arms round them, and his head turned down facing the rails—he turned his face half way to the rails—I thought he was drunk by his action, and he was screeching out so—I did not take hold of the man who was striking Brian, we had enough to do to keep the mob away—I saw blood running down his face, after the man struck him—I saw no blood before that—I had no notion who the man was who struck him—I should say it is nearly half a mile from these railings to the police-station—I did not go before the Magistrate at all—I first mentioned about this yesterday—I volunteered it—I had spoken to Dinam—we had a man come up on the same case, Mr. Bryan, one of the witnesses—I heard from different parties that the case had gone before the Magistrate, but I did not know it was this case—I first heard it was this case yesterday morning—the other porter told me, and I volunteered my services—he did not ask me to come.

MR. ATKINSON. Q. Is the prisoner a friend of your? A. No; I know him as a policeman, as a great number of other men on that beat—he is not a friend of mine in any way.

COURT. Q. When did you speak to the prisoner about this case? A. I saw him last night—I had seen him before that, since the affair happened, but not spoken to him about the case—the prisoner had his hat on when he came up to Brian—I did not see it go off his head—I saw it picked up from the area—I did not see Brian strike him—I should have seen it if he had struck him and knocked his hat off—I don't know Sullivan—(Sullivan was called forward)—I Raw that man there—I did not see anything take place between Brian and the prisoner before I saw Brian clinging to the railings—nothing could have happened between them before that—I am quite sure of that.

JOHN BROWN (Police-inspector). I was on duty at the station, on the

night of this charge—I saw Brian and Sullivan come into the station—I did not hear them make any complaint of the prisoner—there was a great noise at the time—Brian and Sullivan appeared to be drunk—I did not see any scuffle take place in the charge room—I did not give any instructions for anybody to be turned out—I was busy writing down the charge—a young man named Daley gave the charge—I observed some blood on Brian's face—I did not hear any charge made against the prisoner.

Cross-examined. Q. In what manner did Daley make the charge? A. I said, "Do you charge this man?"—he said, "Yes"—I said, "What do you charge him with?"—he said, "With assaulting me"—I said, "Are there any marks of violence"—he said, "Yes," and showed me some blood on his face—there were a great many people in the room at the time and a great noise—I did not see everything that passed—Brian appeared to me to be drunk by the way he spoke, and he leaned back in the dock—he might have been struck for what I know—I did not notice Sullivan so much—I could see that he had been drinking—I did not see him go out of the station—he was ordered to go out, and he said he would not go unless I told him to go—I said, "Your best plan is to go away quietly," and he did go—I did not notice his hat fall off.

MR. ATKINSON. Q. Is this the charge-sheet (produced)? A. Yes; the charge is for being drunk, and assaulting the person charging, and also assaulting police-constable Davidson in the execution of his duty—Brian had an opportunity of saying anything to me at that time free from any interruption—it is part of my duty to hear what prisoners have to say, when they are charged—he made no complaint to me at that time.

MR. LE BRETON . Q. This charge-sheet is signed by Daley, is it not? A. Yes—this is the Magistrate's decision, "Recognisances in 10l. to appear on Friday next," and then "25th September, 1863, discharged."

THOMAS DALEY . I live at 5, Armstrong-place, Plumstead, and am a fitter in an engine-room—about half-past 12 or a quarter to 1 on Sunday morning, 20th September, I was outside the Bull at Plumstead, going towards home—I was knocked down by a man named, Brian—that is the man. (Pointing him out)—I had not done anything to him—he came behind me and knocked me down—I got up when I could, and saw him running away—my coat was all torn, trying to get up, and my nose cut—Brian and another man were on the top of me—I don't know the other man at all—when I got up they both ran away—I followed them, and saw Brian run into the policeman's arms—I was sober; Brian was drunk, and very much excited—I went up and gave him in charge for knocking me down—Brian got hold of a railing and the prisoner could not move him at all—Simper, the porter was there helping the prisoner—I saw the prisoner's hat knocked off—I think it was Brian knocked it off; it went down the area—there were a few persons round—they at last got Brian away from the railings—I did not see the prisoner strike him at all while I was there—I followed to the station—I saw the other constable come up—I saw a black man there—I was near enough to hear what took place between the parties while they were going to the station-house—I heard nothing said about giving money—I signed the charge-sheet at the station—there was no difficulty that I saw about Brian's making a statement—I did not wish to press the charge.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you see any man strike Brian when he was at the rails? A. No; I say Brain knocked me down—I said to Mr. Traill that I could not say it was done for the purpose—I meant by that that it might have been an accident—I saw nothing of any fighting before I was

knocked down—there was a good deal of noise at the station—I did not see Sullivan's hat fall off and kicked—he was told to go out—I cannot say who told him—it was some one belonging to the station.

COURT. Q. Where was the inspector at this time? A. At his desk—it was not the inspector who told him to go out that I am aware of—Sullivan was drunk—Brian's face was dirty; there was a little blood upon it—I consider that Brian was more drunk than Sullivan—I saw Sullivan put out at the door—I did not see the prisoner strike Brian, or Brian strike the prisoner—Brian might have knocked the prisoner's hat off—he was hallooing, I could not tell what—he fell once on the road to the police-station, and the prisoner and the porter held him up—he fell before the other policeman came up, and when he did come up, he kept dropping; trying to fall—I never saw Trenham at all—I did not appear on the Monday, because my parents told me not to—I said before the Magistrate afterwards, that Brian knocked me down, but I did not know whether it was intentional or not—some one asked me to sign the charge-sheet—I heard the people talk about it before I went before the Magistrate on the Thursday, and I thought it very unjust that the man should be charged—I went up of my own accord.

THOMAS DINAM . I am a tailor, living at Armstrong-place, Plumstead—on the morning of 20th, I stood up with Sullivan and Stevens at a tobacconist's shop for shelter—Brian and McCarthy came up and wanted to pull Sullivan from his standing-place, to get in, I suppose—McCarthy was intoxicated—a man named Bennett came up at the same instant, alone—he was also intoxicated—McCarthy turned round and struck Bennett and knocked his hat off Bennett was thrown down on the ground and McCarthy on the top, and while in that position McCarthy beat him severely—I tried to render assistance to take McCarthy, but I could not as I had a bundle under my arm—Brian asked me the reason why I was doing so, and struck me—I said, "If I was not encumbered with this bundle, I would certainly take my own defence," and then he struck me again—I then went and gave my bundle to an oyster man, near the Arsenal station—by that time Bennett had got on his feet, and we got him away by the Bull Tavern—McCarthy and Brian followed on and there, at the corner of Taylor's-buildings, the row became general—a fight ensued, in which a young man named Daley came up, and was knocked down twice by Brian, and then Brian ran away, and I ran after him and called, "Stop him"—the prisoner ran out, stopped him, and caught him by the collar—Brian made a sort of rush, and the prisoner was literally dragged along the wet ground by Brian, I should say, for a yard—they were both partly down—Brian got up, and clung to some railings—I tried to help them get him away; while the prisoner was trying to get him away he was struck by Brian, and his hat fell down the area—that was the first blow I saw given by Brian; I will positively swear before you all, that the prisoner never struck Brian once—I was near them when they left the railings—I saw a black man there—he was not near them—I was near enough to hear any conversation that might have taken place—I did not hear a word about two shillings, or money; I heard no offer made by Brian to the prisoner—I went to the station, and heard the charge—I did not hear Brian charge the prisoner with striking him.

Cross-examined. Q. You, and Stevens, and Sullivan had been drinking together that night, had you? A. Yes—we did not partake of the liquor fairly, share and share alike; I think Sullivan got an extra glass twice—he was very intoxicated—I said before the Magistrate that Brian knocked the prisoner's hat off—I saw Simper, the railway-porter, come up—I saw him

standing near Brian—I did not see anybody strike Brian in the face at that time—I should think I must have seen it if they had—Brian's face was downwards, towards the area—I did not see any blood on his face at that time—when we got to the station I saw his facts was swollen—I will not say there was no blood on it—he looked as if he had been struck—after they got away from the rails, I ran up to the railway-station to get my bundle—I was not away three minutes, and then I followed in the same direction up to the police-station—the prisoner and Simper were helping to get him there, and the black man a little, not much—I was in the station one of the first—all the confusion was made by a man named Sullivan, the man who had been drinking with me—he was an acquaintance—I could not say positively who put him out of the station—he was taken by the collar and put out at the door—his hat did not fall off—I went before the Magistrate on the Thursday in the following week—a man named Trenham told me about this affair—I asked him what he went up for on the Monday, as he knew nothing about it—he said, because he was asked by Brian whether he would go up as a witness for him—I know Trenham; he does these things, he gets up these cases to extort money from anybody he can—I firmly believe that no man can live without lots of money to fall back upon, and he has nothing—he never did any work at the Arsenal—I have heard him represent himself as two or three things there—first, he is inspector of weights and measures; secondly, inspector of "woodgauges," and he represents himself in different ways and shapes—he has told me this himself—I believe he is about a sixteen shillings and twopenny man at the Arsenal—I saw Trenham at the row—Webb came up when Brian was taken from the railings—I saw them both at that place.

MR. ATKINSON. Q. Do you know what an engineer gets at the Arsenal? A. I do; he gets 1l. 12s. 8d.—while I was there I did not see the prisoner strike Brian once—if he had drawn his staff, and well given it to him, I should have said he was doing the duty of a constable—there was much excitement at that time—I could not understand what Brian said—he was hallooing, murmuring, rowing, and swearing.

COURT. Q. Who did you say you gave your bundle to? A. The railway-porter: Oh, I gave it to Webb first, and the railway-porter afterwards—Trenham told me the case was remanded till the Thursday—I went upon Thursday in consequence of that, and I made it my express duty to go and see the prisoner—he told me it was adjourned, and I said, "Very well, I will come tip and state what I know"—that is all I said to him—I also met Sullivan, and told him I would be up with him on the Thursday—we only said it was a shame that the constable should be in such trouble—I saw the thing from the beginning—Brian was in such a furious passion the policeman could hardly stop him—he caught him by the collar, and he was dragged down—Brian did not strike him then—I think I can positively swear that—it was at the railings when I saw him strike him, when his hat was knocked off, that was the first blow Brian struck him—I will not say he did not strike him afterwards.

LAWSON (Policeman. R 216). I was on duty in Thomas-street on this night, and heard a great noise in Cross-street—I found Brian struggling with the prisoner, and I went to his assistance—I found another man had got hold of the prisoner's other arm—I took him from that man—it was not the black man; he was walking behind—they had come from the railings when I came up—Brian was try violent indeed going to the station—he did not fall down—he did not try to stumble at all—I could

have heard any conversation that took place—nothing was said about money at all—Brian was very much intoxicated—there seemed to be a good many of them intoxicated—Brian was excited, and more like a madman than anything else—I could not say who preferred the charge against him—I just helped to take him to the station-house, and then went on my beat again directly.

Cross-examined. Q. In what condition was Brian when you came up? A. I did not see anything the matter with him; no blood—I did not see any man strike him—there was a great deal of confusion when we got to the station—I saw Sullivan up there—he was very drunk—I believe the prisoner put him out of the station.

MR. ATKINSON. Q. Was he disorderly? A. He was very disorderly; he made a great disturbance—Brian made no complaint to me going to the station.

FREDERICK LLOYD . I am chief of police on board Her Majesty's ship Fisguard—Charles Jaggers, a black man, was on board that ship as seaman—he has left this country on board the Gibraltar; she is now on her way to Malta.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know when he left? A. I took him to Plymouth on. 21st September with seventy-four others—the ship sailed about ten days after that—I was at Plymouth for ten days afterwards.

GEORGE GODFREY . I am a tobacconist, at New-road, Woolwich—at midnight on 20th September I was in my bedroom, and heard a disturbance—I went down stairs to my door—some person addressed me from the outside—I went up stairs again, partially dressed myself, looked out of the landing window, and saw a disturbance in the road—from ten minutes to a quarter of an hour they were calling out "Police!" and then I saw a policeman come up—I could not distinguish his face; I saw his cape and hat—I know where these railings are—I saw the constable take hold of a man by the collar—before that I heard one or two say, "Take him in charge, he has been assaulting us"—I saw the policeman try to get the man away from the railings—I did not see him strike the man at all.

Cross-examined. Q. But this was at 1 o'clock in the morning? A. Yes—my window is about fifteen yards from this place—I could distinctly see what was going on from my window—I was looking out from a quarter of an hour to twenty minutes—during that time I saw no blow struck either way—I saw another man besides the policeman with a shiny cape on.

The prisoner received a good character from his sergeant and inspector.



Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1266
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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1266. JOHN KNOWLDEN (34), THOMAS OXFORD (46), and JOHN DRON (37) , were indicted, (together with CHARLES ALFRED COOMBS not in custody), for unlawfully conspiring to cheat and defraud divers persons of their moneys. The prisoners, by the advice of their Counsel, declining to plead, the Court, on the application of the Counsel for the prosecution, directed a plea of Not Guilty to be entered.

MESSRS. CLERK and BEASLEY conducted the Prosecution.

SAMUEL HARRIS . I am a tailor, and live at Rockingham-gardens. Newington-causeway—I was a member of the Perseverance Life Assurance and

chuck Fund Friendly Society—the prisoner Oxford called on me and asked able to become a member—this (produced) is my book—my wife saw him first—I was present when we agreed to join the society; he persuaded me to join he said it was a good society—I cannot now remember what he said—I joined the society because I thought of having a benefit—no prospectus was shown me, nor any particulars given—I gave my name and paid my money, 3d. a week—that was to insure ray life for 12l., and my wife insured her life—two policies were given us—I got these (produced)from Oxford—I can't say when—I think it was about the time they are dated, but I am not sure; 2d May, 1859—I am not sure whether I had the two papers, or only one.—I gave up all the papers I had—the weekly payments were entered in these books as they were made—Oxford came for the money—I paid him 3d. a week on my own life, and 3d. a week on my wife's—that was put down as we paid it, and Oxford put his initials, "T. 0."—I don't know whether Dron sometimes called for the money; my wife used to pay—sometimes I was not at home—the payments go down to 27th October, 1862—I never attended any meeting of the society, nor ever had notice of any meeting.

Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD (for Knowlden and Oxford). Q. You had a copy of the rules, I suppose? A. I am not sure of that—(looking at one)—I did not have a copy of this; I am sure of that—I have not had loans from this society; I had some money from Oxford—I don't exactly remember how much—that was from another society—I don't know whether I have repaid it; my wife used to pay—I don't remember whether it was 3l., or what it was—I don't remember that there is anything at all to pay.

MR. CLERK. Q. When was it that you borrowed that money? A. I can't say; it was of a society that Oxford belonged to before this—I don't remember what Society it was, or anything at all about it—it was before I entered into these policies.

Cross-examined by MR. KYDD (for Dron). Q. Did you sign any proposal? A. I only signed one thing, and that was to make a change in the rules (looking at a paper)—I never signed this.

MR. CLERK. Q. When was it you signed a paper about an alteration in the rules. A. I can't say: it was after I became a member of the society. ELIZABETH REYNOLDS. I am a widow, and live at 4, Dean-street—I know the three prisoners—at one time I joined the Friend-in-Need Society—Knowlden and Oxford were the persons who received my money for that society—they were members of the committee—in 1859 Oxford called on me, and said the Friend-in-Need Society was a flourishing concern, and he was in hopes it would be so—my landlady had been a member of it for many years, and it was on her account that I joined it—I remember the new society, the Perseverance, being formed, and I rejoined from the Friend-in-Need to the Perseverance—before I joined the Perseverance Oxford called upon me—I can't positively recollect what he said—he said that he had found a little money to open a fresh society, and he hoped and trusted it would be more to our benefit than the' old one was—he did not say who it was that had formed the new society—he left a paper with me—I am no scholar, and cannot read—I afterwards gave Mr. Pollard all the papers I had—when I joined the Perseverance I said to Oxford, "Mind, I shall stand on the old amount, it. 6s. 5d."—he said, "That is right, you are free now"—that was the sum I had insured for; I paid 1d. a week—after leaving the paper he called every four weeks, and received my money—this (produced) is my policy for the Perseverance, which Oxford gave me, and this is the Friend-in-Need policy—I paid 6d. a month—Oxford called for the payments

—Dron has called also—he received my money up to 20th July last, from about March or April—I never paid to Knowlden, only when they did not call for my money at the usual time I have gone to the head office, as it was called, at Waller-place, and I have there paid Knowlden—the person to whom I paid the money signed my book—this is the book—I had a book of the rules when I joined the society, and paid 4d. for it—no one called for my payments, but Oxford and Dron, and one other person, whose name Tnever knew, called, I believe, three times—Oxford told me at one time, very shortly after I joined, that they had 500l. stock in hand, and he has told me that the concern was going on very straight, and he thought it would be good—Dron never said anything to me about how it was going on—I never attended any meeting of the society at Waller-place—I was never called to any meeting—I heard from my landlady about this disturbance in the papers, and I went to the police-court—that was the only meeting I ever went to.

Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. Did you ever apply for any benefit under the society? A. No, because I am still in existence—mine was a death-policy, not a sick one.

MARKY ANN LITTLEJOHN . I am a widow, and live at 5, Devonshire-place, Walcot-square, Kennington—I know the three prisoners—Oxford first called upon me on 1st August, 1859—I was then residing in Bishop's-terrace—I had never seen him before—he called to induce us to join the Perseverance Society—he left no paper, only the book in which he afterwards entered the premiums that I paid him, and a prospectus like this (produced)—I insured the lives of my three children for 6l. each, and paid 2d. each a week—this is the book in which the payments are entered—at the end of the book there is a table, and a statemnt that there is a reserved guarantee fund of 5,000l., in 20,000 shares of 5s. each—I saw that it was in the book when he gave it me—a week afterwards, I insured the life of my husband, and my husband insured mine—Dron brought these policies—these are the three for the children; two purport to be signed by Knowlden and Oxford, and one by Dron and Oxford—here is my husband's for 24l. signed by Knowlden and Oxford as two of the committee of management, and my own for 15l. also signed by them—there was another collecting-book for my husband and myself—this is it; that also contains the same statement about the 5,000l.—I used to pay weekly; the several sums amounted to 1s. a week—Oxford called for it the first two or three weeks, and then Dron called—the person who called always signed the books—Dron continued to call until a week before my husband died; that was on 27th February this year—the 16th February is the last date at which Dron called—I made a payment at the office six weeks afterwards—they never called after my husband died—he had been ill some months—the 3s. then in arrear I paid to Knowlden in Oxford's presence—he took the money, and Knowlden signed the book—here are his initials—it was 3s. for my children and 1s. 4d. for myself and my husband—one week was in arrear for my husband—two or three weeks after my husband died, I sent a written notice to Dron; shortly afterwards, I received this letter (read: "March 1, 1863. Madam, I understand Mr. Dron is out of town. Please send the Committee the doctor's certificate. I will lay it before them on Wednesday next.—J. Knowlden")—Mr. Hill attended my husband at the time of his death, and I sent to him for a certificate; he came to my house, and gave me a written certificate—I put it into an envelope, and took it to the office in Mount-street, where it had been changed from Waller-place—there is a notice on the outside of my book, "On account of the great increase of the

business of the Perseverance Society, the chief office is removed to Mount-street"—Dron put that on—I left at Mount-street the paper Mr. Hill had given me—there was a plate on the door, "Chief Office of the Perseverance Life Assurance and Sick Fund Friendly Society"—no notice was taken, and, about a fortnight after my husband's death, I called at the office in Mount-street, just before 11 in the morning—I found no one there (William Chadband, police-officer, M 216, proved the service of a notice upon the defendants to produce the certificates and other documents referred to in the course of the case)—I then went to Oxford's residence, 8, Lambeth-square—I saw him, and said, "I have called to know what decision you have come to about my claim"—he said, "Two of the committee will call upon you at 12 o'clock" I went home, and just before 12, Knowlden and a man named Coombs came—I had not seen Coombs before—Knowlden said, "The committee are not satisfied with the certificate they have had; they believe your husband to have been consumptive at the time he became a member"—I said, "Oh, I can easily prove he was not"—They then left—I afterwards wrote a letter, and left it at the office in Mount-street—I found no one there, so I put it in the letter-box—inclosed in that letter was a certificate from Mr. Verrall (called for and produced)—this is a written certificate; I made a copy of it and sent it; I put "copy" on it (This was dated April, 1863, and certified, that at the latter part of 1861 when he had examined Mr. Littlejohn, he had neither diffused abscess or tubercular disease, and that the abscess must have occurred within a short period of his death)—I went again afterwards to the office, but never found any one there, unless by previous appointment—I spoke to Mr. Steers about the matter—he is a friend of mine; and after he had called on them, the three prisoners and a son of Oxford called on me—Oxford came alone first, and on that occasion he said, "We know that you are entitled to be paid, but we have no money to pay you; if we pay you, we must pay others"—I had previously received a letter stating that they wanted a printed certificate, and that they would not accept a written one—(a letter to this effect, dated 21st March, 1863, was read)—Mr. Hill subsequently gave me a printed form, which I took to the office, and put in the letter-box (This was called for, and produced; it certified the cause of death to be pulmonary consumption, not of the tubercular form, but from diffused abscess, the result of inflammation of the lungs)—I sent that before I sent the second certificate of Mr. Verralls—I was not examined when I joined the society, nor was my husband—about 4th April, 1863, after Oxford had been, Knowlden, Oxford, his son, and Coombs called on me, not Dron—Mr. Steers said he wanted to know when they were going to pay me; they said they could not pay me, because they had no funds—Mr. Steers said, "Then if you have no funds, your society must be in an insolvent condition"—they said, "It is; we have no funds"—he said, "You have admitted Mrs. Littlejohn is entitled to her money, and she is determined to be paid; what proposal do you come to?"—that conversation passed on the first occasion with Oxford, and it was repeated on the second occasion when the others were present—they then made me an offer to pay me 3l. a quarter for two years—Mr. Steers has the proposal paper—it was written down; but when they were asked for security, they said they could give none, they had no friends who would be security for them—Mr. Steers said, "Can you not pay Mrs. Littlejohn a sum down? you know she is entitled, according to your rules, to a sum down at the death, and the remainder within three months; can you not pay her some? and we will give you six months to pay the remainder, if you will give security"—they

said no, they had so tired their friends, that they were completely worn out, and they had no friends existing—I don't recollect any more that passed on that occasion—they took no further notice till Mr. Steers called on them again, about 8th April—after that, the same four again came to my house; Oxford's son was then deputed spokesman for the rest—he said, "If you will give us positive proof that your husband had not the disease of which he died at the time he became a member, we will entertain your claim"—when they found I would not take their proposal, they disputed with me again, and said, "Your husband was consumptive, and we have heard his mother was consumptive"—I said, "Who is your informant?"—they said they would not tell me; and then they said if I could prove my husband had not that disease, they would entertain my claim—they then went away—they took no notice after that—I wrote them a letter, but they never answered it, or came near me, until Mr. Steers went to them again—after that they came, the whole of them, the same four and Dron with them—that was in April—when they said that my husband's mother bad consumption, And that it was hereditary, having heard Mr. Hill say that it was not, I obtained another certificate from him, and sent it (This being produced and read, stated that Mr. Littlejohn's death was the result of inflammation, and not of hereditary disease; a certificate of Mr. Verrall dated 24th March, 1863, was also read, staling that when he attended Mr. Littlejohn at the latter part of 1861, Re examined his chest, and at that period he had no traces of tubercular consumption whatever)—At the last meeting, when Dron came with them, I reminded them of their former proposal, that if I could prove my husband had not the disease of which he died, they would entertain my claim; and I said, "Now, I have given you proof sufficient for any experienced man, perhaps you will tell me when you mean to pay?"—"Oh," the reply was," we said we would entertain your claim; we never said anything about paying it"—it was young Oxford who said that; but he was the deputed spokesman for the others—they were all present and heard what he said—Dron said that I had stated my husband was brought home ill from church—I said, "I never said such a thing"—he said, "We believe his mother had consumption, and he inherited it from her, and we shan't pay you at all"—I said Mr. Hill's certificate was sufficient for that—they said they did not care for that—I said I should apply to a Magistrate—they said, "No Magistrate or County County-court Judge can possibly interfere with us, we don't care"—Mr. Steers said to them, "Are you collecting funds for the society now?"—they said, "We are"—he said, "Do you know what you are doing? if you are collecting funds for a society in an insolvent condition, you are committing a felony"—I believe they made no answer to that—they said of course they had to take their salaries out of it—they owned that they had nothing else for their living; that they lived on the money they collected—I was a member of the society from 1st August, 1859—I never attended any meeting, and never heard of any—I never received any notice or summons—I never had a copy of the balance-sheet sent to me—I never obtained a copy of the rules until after my husband's death, when Mr. Steers called upon me.

Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. There was a written proposal, was there not? A. Yes, at the time my husband's life was insured, and which he signed—I believe this (produced) is it; I believe this is his signature, and the written answers to the questions I believe to be his—Mr. Hill in not here; he had attended my husband about five months before his death—I

think he began. to attend him in September, and he died in February—he had not been my husband's regular medical attendant before that; Mr. Verrall had, but he had never been ill till 1861; he only attended him then, and that was for about five days—Mr. Verrall is not here—I remember at one of the interviews one of the prisoners asking me how Mr. Verrall came to attend him at all—I did not in answer to that say "Because we thought he had got consumption; "I said, "He had a severe cold"—Mrs. Marnell, who lodged with me, did not say so; nobody mentioned consumption except themselves—I believe Mrs. Marnell is not here; I have not seen her for some months—I am positive no one said, "Because we thought he had consumption;" nothing to that effect—I do not remember Mr. Steers' saying, "Why do you speak, that is just what they wanted to know"—I won't swear he did not say so, but I do not remember it—Mr. Steers was not at all angry except on the last occasion, when Dron insulted him—Mr. Steers was introduced to me—I do not know who he is exactly; I don't know his pedigree—he acted for me throughout in this transaction—he was introduced to me by Mrs. Marnell—I did not know that he was connected with another society—I think I heard him say he belonged to the Phoenix, or had done so—I don't recollect his mentioning the Sceptre—I have seen him here to-day.

Q. Has he been reading something to you from a paper in the passage adjoining the Court? A. It was merely the notes he made at the time of the interviews—he might have said to me, "Now remember that, that is very important"—I don't remember it; I certainly saw the paper—I was examined before the Magistrate—I stated there that the prisoners said the society was in a very shaky condition—I did not state that one of them said, "You ought to be paid, but we have no money to pay you;" that came to my remembrance since, and I put it down on a piece of paper a week or two ago—I have not seen Mr. Steers lately till to-day; he told me he was not allowed in Court—it was about a quarter of an hour after that, that he read the notes to me—he did not read to me that they knew it was a good claim but had not the money; I am sure of that—he had his original notes—he did not read them all, he read some portions to me—he only read the conversations that they had at my house; that is, the dates—he said, "Particularly remember the dates, don't forget the dates; "now the dates I did not remember—that was the principal part of what he said to me—I can't give the exact words that he read to me, it was only the dates, the most important part—I can't tell what he read, there was too much of it; his papers are very voluminous—I dare say he mentioned Dron's name in what he read—I think he said, "You remember Dron was present only on the last occasion," and I said "Yes"—I can't tell how many papers he read altogether, there were some sheets; he looked over two or three sheets; he ouly read a portion, it was principally the dates that he wished me to recollect—it was on the last occasion that Dron insulted him—I think Mrs. Marneli was present on all the occasions—Dron was questioning me, and asking where my husband's mother was buried—Mr. Steers said, "I know why you want to know that"—Dron immediately said, "Who are you, sir?"—Mr. Steers said, "Never mind who I am; who are you?"—that, of course, led to an altercation, and Dron said to Mr. Steers, "Upon my word, you would make a very good Old Bailey judge"—Mr. Steers did not refuse to give his name; he gave it, at least Mrs. Marnell called him by name, and then Dron said, "Oh, that is the name, is it? now I have got it;" and he said to the rest, "Take notice of that"—they had each refused their names

and addresses to each other—when Mr. Steers said, "If you are gathering money you are committing a felony," Dron. said, "If you use such language to me I will bring an action against you"—I think it was on that that Dron asked his name—I am positive it was not said at either of the interviews that the reason Mr. Verrall had examined my husband was because it was clear he had consumption; nothing of the sort.

Cross-examined by MR. KYDD. Q. How many interviews were there altogether at which the prisoners were present? A. I think three; but Oxford came first alone, and Dron was only present at the last—having seen arbitration mentioned in their rules, I asked for the names of the arbitrators—they said they would not tell me, in fact they thought two were dead—I made no written proposal for arbitration—I did not deposit any sum of money with a view to having my claim settled—Mr. Steers and Dron were both very angry at the last interview—I do not remember whether anything was said at that interview about the solvency of the society, I think it was merely asked why they did not pay the claim—I will not swear that Dron did not say the society was solvent, because I do not remember.

MR. CLERK. Q. Has Mr. Steers ever read any paper to you before to-day of what took place? A. No, I have not seen him—about a month or six weeks ago I made a communication to Mr. Pollard of what took place at these meetings—Mr. Verrall attended my husband for a few days in 1861; he had never attended him before; he was never ill before—the insurance on his life was made two years and three months before that—up to that time no medical man had ever attended him—he had no illness between the time his life was insured in the spring of 1859 and the time Mr. Verrall attended him in 1861—between that time and Mr. Hill attending him he had been ill for a few days with diarrhoea, but he would go to work again—he was a carpenter, and was with his father who was a builder—he continued at his work until January, 1862; he was taken ill then, and was ill for some time; he then went into the country, to Plymouth, in Devonshire, and came back and went to his work again; after being at work for some time, he was taken ill again, and then Mr. Hill attended him—he was not a Devonshire man, he was born in London.

ROBERT STEERS . I live at 4, Great Queen-street, Westminster—I am a referee, in any case where I may. be employed—in the spring of this year I was introduced to Mrs. Littlejohn—I first became acquainted with her about two or three months before that—I did not know her during her husband's lifetime—I saw her with reference to a claim that she had against the Perseverance Friendly Society, and at her request I called upon the defendants—I have the address down—this is a note I made at the time; everything was made at the time—there is not a transaction down here but what I made at the time—I called at 8, Lambeth-square; that, is Oxford's house—I saw Oxford, and asked if his office was at that time taking lives—he said, "Yes"—I asked him for the papers and rules belonging to the company—he went up stairs, came down, and produced them, for which I paid—this is a copy of them—I have no prospectus; the book of rules states outside the cover that there is a guarantee fund of 5,000l.—I asked if he was prepared to take a life from fifty to sixty years of age, and whether the Society would extend it to eighty years of age—he said that they would—I then asked, stating as he did that they had got no papers to fill up, whether he had formerly had papers for the purpose of parties filling up who assured their lives with him—he said, Yes, he had, but not then; they did not now issue any papers for signature by the assured under 50l.

—this was on 4th April—I went buck to Mrs. Littlejohn, and told her what had passed—I returned to Oxford's the same day, and requested that he would meet me at Mrs. Littlejohn's, in the matter of her claim against the society—he promised to come, and after a considerable time he did come to his office, and promised to meet me in a quarter of an hour—he came in about half an hour—I then told him that I was employed by Mrs. Littlejohn to request that the society would at once pay her claim, which was something like 24l.—he said that at that time they had no funds to pay—I asked if they had any at their bankers—he said that they had not—I said, "Then how can you meet this claim?"—he said, "We have had so many calls upon us that I do not know how I can meet it"—I said, "Have you any funds whatever?" "None whatever"—"Do you still gather funds from the public for this society?" "I do"—"Do you fund them?" "No, we do not"—"What do you do with them?" We keep those funds that we gather for the purpose of paying our own personal expenses in gathering them"—"Then you are hopelessly insolvent?" "Yes, we are hopelessly insolvent"—I then asked him if he could not obtain funds from some of his friends, or from some source or other—he said that that was hopeless, for they had already all of them exhausted their friends.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. What are you looking at there? A. Nothing at all—I mean to swear that I did not look at this paper—you may look at if you like.

MR. CLERK. Q. Have you got any notes there? A. No, not at all; not concerning the question that our friend (Mr. Giffard) put—none of the defendants but Oxford were present at this interview—Mrs. Littlejohn was there—I then said, "Mr. Oxford, you tell me you are still gathering funds from the public"—he said, "I am"—I said, "If that be so, and you state to me that it is so, do you know what you are doing; you are committing a felony, sir; it is a fraud on the public to go to the public, specifying that you are persons taking their money for the purpose of insuring, and at the same time confessing shat you yourselves put the whole of that money in your pockets, and that you spend it on your own personal wants"—he made no reply whatever to that; he said that it was true—that was the end of that interview—at Mrs. Littlejohn's request I again called on the defendants—they said that they would call a committee meeting on the 7th, and after they had determined what to do as to Mrs. Littlejohn's 24l. they would meet me on the evening of the 8th, which they did—here is Mr. Oxford's own writing, which he put down on the table at that time, "Thomas Oxford, of 8, Lambeth-square, agent; John Knowlden, secretary, 1, Upper Coburg-place, Kennington-lane; Alfred Coombs, agent, being all committee-men and collectors. Premiums, 8d. per week for thirteen weeks, 8s. 8d. payment of 3l. quarterly, deducting premiums, leaves 2l. 11s. 4d."—That 3l. was promised to be paid quarterly—it would have taken two years to have paid the 24l.—that was not stated by either of the defendants before the paper was written; it was done at the time—"8th April the above named came on to meet me at Mrs. Littlejohn's house; when hearing the proposal made to me as above I requested they would give it me in writing; they agreed to do so"—That is not Oxford's writing; the top is: all that is black ink; and the other is a pencil memorandum made at the time—all memorandums were made at the moment—all that was written by Oxford was down to the black line—I took notes every time they met—when the proposal was made to pay 3l. quarterly, they said they would do it—I said, "Very well, if you will do it bring me a guarantee that you will do so, or two sureties, and I will take it for my

client's sake"—they declined to do that, saying that they had already exhausted the whole of their friends—that was all that took place at that meeting, except that I repeated the same language about their receiving money from the public—I always did that on every occasion—I said, "Gentlemen, do you know what you are doing; a confession has been made on every occasion that you have met here, that you are receiving the public funds, that you are not banking them, that you are not paying any of the liabilities that are upon your shoulders, but that you confess that you are really expending the whole sum you receive upon your own persons"—that statement was made by me in the presence of all three of the defendants, and Coombs as well, and young Oxford, and their answer was that it was so—Oxford said that, and the others did not contradict him—that was at the meeting of 8th April—there were subsequent meetings at Mrs. Littlejohn's—they were all similar—I could get nothing out of them, and there it all ended as we stand now, no fruits—I was present at a meeting when Dron was there—that was the lust meeting—what passed on that occasion was precisely similar, except that Dron asked me to use the same language again, which I did—he then said, "Will you give me your name and address?"—at that time they did not know it—I said, "Well the truth of the matter is, this is a case so exceedingly bad, that I should be very sorry indeed even to come before the public to represent it"—he said, "You say that we are all felons"—I said, "Mark the expression; I say you tell me that you are receiving funds from the public, and that you are expending them upon your own persons; that you do not fund it in any shape or way, neither do you pay the liabilities that are upon your shoulders as a society, and hence I say again, if that be a fact, and you tell me that it is so, as you have done more than once or twice, I say you are felons in the eye of the law"—"Now," said he, "I shall bring an action against you"—that was the last of our meetings; it was on 15th April—I am not connected with any Life society whatever—nothing more passed—it was all of the same class.

Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. Pray, what is a referee? A. If you know you can answer that point yourself—I do not choose to answer—everybody knows what a referee is—a judge is a referee—you are a referee if you are called upon to decide any case—I am not a judge, except in such cases as come before me—I have been a referee many years—I was connected with the Phoenix office many years ago as a clerk—I left by resignation—there was a balance due from them to me—there was a cross balance between the two—there was my agency, which was worth 2,000l. to the company, and there was a balance from me to them—I think it was 177l.—it has never been paid—I have never been paid, and therefore that has never been paid—I left the Phoenix on purpose to raise the Sceptre Society—that has been merged into another society—I was the promoter and managing director of the Sceptre Society—I brought no less than five actions against the society, and gained them all; therefore you may know whether the Sceptre was right or wrong—I don't know how long the society lasted, because I left it in 1851 or 1852—it had then lasted about fifteen months—it was merged years after—I am connected with a Fire Society, the Independent—that was registered about six weeks ago—there is no managing director—I am the manager—a friend introduced me to Mrs. Littlejohn, Mrs. Marnell, whom I have known from her childhood—she was present as Mrs. Littlejohn's friend at the majority of the interviews I have described—she lodged at Mrs. Littlejohn's—she did not say at one of the interviews that the late Mr. Littlejohn had been examined by a doctor, because they thought he had

consumption, nor anything to that effect—I do not remember anything being said about his being examined by a doctor—I think I might have said, "Why do you speak, that is what they want to know," because she had nothing to do with Mrs. Littlejohn's affairs—I don't know that I did say so, but it is more than probable that I should have said such a thing—I might have said so, but I do not recollect it—I cannot say that I have been in courts of justice before, except in the case of the Sceptre—I know the object of ordering witnesses out of Court; it is generally that they should not hear what evidence is brought forward, that they should not be able to throw a counterpart upon it, if they are dishonest enough to do it—I did not, before I came in here to-day, read over to Mrs. Littlejohn the notes I took of the conversations—I read portions of what I had taken down as evidence myself, but not of conversations at which she was present; I swear that—I am speaking of the notes that I took—I read to her some portions; not all, certainly not—my lord, am I bound to answer this point? (The Common Serjeant informed the witness that he was)—I read to her that she called upon me on 2d April, and I thought before I entered this Court, and until I undid my papers, that it was the 8th of April—there they are (handing them in)—it is rather essential that his lordship should read them if you do—I am very happy that yon have called for them—you will be able to judge why after you have read them—I mean, that you should possess yourself of the facts—I have never been in an attorney's office—I do not know the mode in which they make out bills to their clients—this is a copy of the real notes made on each occasion—I have not got the notes here—I do not require them—these are copies of the notes that were taken at the time—I believe I did not use the word copy until this minute—this was all written at the same time, after the transaction—I should say something like the 16th or 17th of April—the three guineas referred to there, is the total amount of my charges to Mrs. Littlejohn from beginning to end, and that is little enough by 25l. I should say, for the trouble I bad—this is a copy of the whole of the rough pieces of paper that I took on each occasion—the rough notes that I made are not now in existence—they were made in pencil, and I destroyed them after I had made my copies—this part that I have read is Oxford's own writing—the pencil additions were made by myself at the time, on 15th April—they are simply remarks made at the time—they are the original notes.

COURT. Q. But you stated before, over and over again, that the others were notes made at the time when it turned out that they were not? A. But they are copies of them—I am on my oath that they are copies of the original notes—I do not mean these last, but those I have handed in—these lust are what I made at the time, absolutely originals.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Then the first paper you gave me was partly copied from that, was it? A. You will notice yourself whether it was or not, one is dated the 15th, and the first was the 8th—the last handed in is part of it—those parts were made at the same time; they are separate paragraphs—the notes that I have last given in were made at the selfsame time, that which is in pencil and that which is in ink—the part beginning "premiums for thirteen weeks 8s. 8d." is Oxford's writing, down to "being all committee-men and members"—that which follows in pencil I wrote at the same time at the meeting—all the defendants spoke at different times—this states "When Mr. Oxford, senior, wrote the above, I took it from him, and, seeing Mr. Dron's name was not included, I desired to know why it was left out, when Oxford, senior, said his name was not worth having, for if there

was money to receive he would come and take it, but that he was not the man to come forward with a shilling to meet a claim"—that is true I have not mentioned that to-day—I have mentioned it before, over and over again—I mentioned it to Oxford in Dron's presence at the last meeting, and Dron turned round and said, "Mr. Oxford, did you ever say such a thing of me? and Oxford said, "No, I did not"—Mrs. Littlejohn immediately said, "Mr. Oxford, you did; you said it in my presence, and in the presence of Mr. Steers"—it continues, "They met me again two or three times at the residence of Mrs. Littlejohn"—I mean to adhere to what I have said that the whole of that pencilling was written at the same time—it was written on 8th April—I have read it before, and know the whole of it—I swear that all the pencil was written at the same time, on 8th April—this last part that I have read at the back was certainly not written at the same time—the whole on the front page was—I did not tell the jury ten minutes ago that these two papers were parts of the same notes written at the same time; not that part—this is a private memorandum of my own; it has nothing to do with anything that occurred during the meetings—I remember telling you that there were two documents, which, though separate, formed part of the same notes; this is one that was made on the 8th—this was made several days after—the whole of this front page was written on the 8th—these two cannot refer to the same occasion—I believe I did state just now that these two papers were part of the same notes, if I have made a mistake I can very easily rectify it; I am very sorry—they are parts of the same case, that was what I meant—I read to Mrs. Littlejohn portions of the written account from the 2d to the 8th—you had better say that I read the whole of it; that will end it—I did not read the whole—it began on the 2d; I thought it was the 4th—I simply pointed out to her that April 2d was the day I took her instructions—I then turned to the last paragraph and showed her that on the 8th was the second interview that we had with Oxford and the others—I don't know that I said to her, "It is very important"—I will not swear that I did or that I did not—it is quite likely I might or I might not have said so—that does not alter the case—I don't remember having said it—I don't recollect whether Dron's name was mentioned between us—I will not swear one way or the other—I did not refresh my memory by my notes when I went before the Magistrate—everything was too pointed in my memory at that time—I certainly had not my notes with me, refreshing my memory by them, when I was there—there can he no mistake about that—I had my notes with me—I dare say I looked at them—I have no doubt of it—I believe I did—I don't know whether I am bound to answer why—I looked at them for precise dates—it was to refresh my memory as to dates.

COURT. Q. Then do not you see that you have again contradicted yourself in the most explicit manner? A. Well, if I have, that won't alter the case.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Did you say one word before the Magistrate about their not paying the liabilities of the society? A. I believe you have got my evidence before the Magistrate (looking at his deposition)—this is my writing (the deposition was here read)—I have heard that read—whether I said it or not, they said it at all events that they had no funds—I remembered that when I was before the Magistrate; I did not state it, because matters do not occur to you all at once—there are a thousand other things I could say if it was requisite—I could detain you here for a week with what occurred—I did not state it because it did not occur to me—I do not

think that is a contradiction to what I stated just now—I told the Magistrate when he began to question me that if he would permit me to speak it would almost be in a nutshell—he told me to go on, and I told him the whole facts as far as they occurred to my memory—I did not refer to my notes at that time—I certainly did look at them, most decidedly, to remind me of the dates; I don't deny that—I find in my notes, under the date of 15th April, "Mr. Verrall, the surgeon attending, gave Mrs. L. two certificates to prove that at the latter part of 1861 there was no sign whatever of the disease of which he died. Mr. Hill, M. D. also gave two certificates, the latter of which more distinctly proves that the particular form of consumption of which ho died was not hereditary, showing that the society's excuse was utterly without ground. About three weeks after that meeting"——these were recollections—this was written at the same moment as the other—it is not headed—these pencil memoranda have no heading at all—it goes on, "About three weeks after that meeting of 15th April another meeting was held at Mrs. Littlejohn's at which Dron attended for the first time, when, after a very stormy meeting, they resolved that they would not pay her demand, and that Mrs. Littlejohn might proceed to action, when they would defend it, as the law gave them all power to act as they pleased, and if persons did not carefully read the book of rules, it was their own fault"—That was taken as a memorandum of the conversation which took place between us—there is not a word there about their not paying their liabilities—I did not put that down, because I had it in my memory—they did state that they should leave her to her action, and that they should defend it, and that it was not their fault if people did not read the rules—if I did not state that in my evidence I am saying it now—it is impossible for any soul living to be able to remember the whole of conversations taking place at various meetings—here are some words which have been struck out—they are, "Mr. Oxford, senior, states that his Society would at all times take money payments from the children of a deceased person, who died of a pulmonary complaint"—after he had stated that, which he did, I again put the question to him pointedly, "Now, Mr. Oxford, recollect the question I put to you, will you receive money payments for the children of a deceased individual who died of a pulmonary complaint?" and he said, "No, no, I won't say that;" that was why I struck those words out—Oxford told me that they were paying none of their liabilities, because they bad no funds to pay them—I cannot say that I remembered that at the time I was taking these notes; if I had, I should have stated it there—it did not occur to me, although it be the fact—I was never connected with a loan society in the Strand with a person named Reynolds—I don't know of a person of that name connected with a loan society in the Strand, or any loan society at all.

Cross-examined by MR. KYDD. Q. I want to call your attention to this bill, and to a series of charges of yours; are these what you call referee's charges? A. They are my charges, and I call myself a referee—I acted in that capacity in this case, but Mrs. Littlejohn being a widow, I charged her merely my simple fees for time lost—I have answered your question, and I don't choose to answer it any more—I have already stated what occurred at the interview when Dron was present—I told them that they were committing a felony, and Dion was exceedingly angry and stormy at the meeting—I have, no doubt that I was angry and stormy also—I certainly was exceedingly angry—I made no demand on that occasion for my 3l. for attending on behalf of Mrs. Littlejohn, nor at any of the interviews—Dron

did not state that the society was in a solvent state—he said that Mrs. Littlejohn might bring an action against the society, or words to that effect—the Independent Insurance Society, with which I am connected, has been registered about six weeks—it is not doing any business at present, because it is not established—it is simply registered—I don't know that I have advertised for an assistant-manager for it—in all probability I may have done so; not since the company has been established—it referred to another Fire company that might have been raised, but never was raised.

Q. Let me call your attention to this advertisement, "Assistant Manager. A gentleman of experience is immediately required to take the position of Assistant Manager in a Fire Insurance Company, of extensive mercantile importance, apply personally, between 2 and 5 o'clock, to Messrs. Steers and Co., 4, Great Queen-street?" A. That is true; that refers to the former society, which I did not attempt to establish, after I had found out another plan, which I substituted for it—I think the advertisement says that it "would be" of extensive mercantile importance—this other advertisement, for an inspector of agencies, refers to the same society; this other advertisement, for a partnership with 1,000l. at command, does not refer to either of them—it refers to a manufactory in the country; in Northamptonshire—I admit all these advertisements—this one for a risk surveyor, is for the same company—you know as well as I do, that this is referee business—in all these advertisements the firm of "Steers and Co." is referred to—I am Steers, the Co. is myself, alone, as a firm—I have no partner—I carry on business under the name of Steers and Co.

EDMUND SALMON . I am a ganger, and live at 23, Bartholomew-close, City—I joined the Perseverance Society, on 8th August, 1859—Oxford called at my house—I am not positive, whether or not he left a paper; I was not at home—my wife used to pay him, frequently in my presence; monthly—Oxford called for about three years and three months—I paid 2s. a month for myself, and 8d. for my son—7l. 16s. was the amount for which I insured my life—the last payment I made was 2s. 8d., on 27th July, 1863—I don't know whether the policies were given on the first day or directly after—I did not attend any meeting of the society—I was never summoned.

CAROLINE BIGGS . I am a widow, and live in Gloucester-cottages, Prospectrow, Walworth—I know Dron; he called at my house in August, 1859, with some one else, who I do not know—he asked if I would belong to the Perseverance Burying Society—he asked if I had anything particular the matter with me—I said, "No"—he said, it would be a very good thing if I would join it—I insured my life for 8l.,—he gave me a book, for which I paid a penny, and he brought the policy, and I paid 6d. for the entry—I continued to pay my sixpence a-week up to the 20th July last—on two occasions I went to 3, Waller-place, to pay my money; once I paid to the name of Knowlden, but I should not know the man again, and once to Dron's father—I never attended any meeting, nor had any notice of any.

MARY JAMESON . I am a widow, and live at 26, Bermondsey New-road—I know Oxford and Knowlden—when I first paid my money, I paid it to a gentleman named Coombs, but he did not collect it long—I was a member of the Perseverance Society—Coombs first came to me and asked me to join it—I did not join it at once; I took it into consideration—he called again in a few weeks, and I joined—he left me a book—I insured the lives of my two children, about 3d October, 1859—I paid a penny a-week for each child—I did not insure my own life—I insured my mother's afterwards—

at first I paid two pence a week for the children—I paid Oxford once—I think I Insured my mother's life, for 3l., about six months after my children's, and paid four pence a week for her—I continued to pay those sums, on my mother's life, up to July—I went to the office in July, and saw Oxford there—a gentleman (Mr. Rendle), who went with me, asked him for a balance-sheet and several things, but he could not produce anything he asked for—he said he had not got them—he showed him some collecting books; he could not show him anything else—I think he asked to inspect the books—he said he had not got them; he would get them in about a week, when Mr. Knowlden came from the country—I had seen Knowlden when I made the last payment in July—I then said to him that I thought the society was not going on right—he asked why did I think so—I said I had seen several things in the paper that I did not approve of, and for that reason, as I was left a widow with two children, I could ill afford paying sixpence a week to him—he said if I liked to go on, if death took place, there was ray money—I had a book of the rules; I asked Coombs several times for it—he said he had not brought it, but he would bring it—I said I should not pay him any more until he did—at last he brought it, and I gave him three pence for it; that was in this year—I went on paying after that—I never attended any meeting, and was never summoned to any.

Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. I suppose what you referred to as seeing in the papers, was this charge against the defendant? A. Yes and different accounts of persons not getting their money.

JAMES COOPER . I live at 4, Hampton-street, Walworth-road and am foreman of the roads of the parish of Newington—I know Dron and Oxford—I insured my son's life in the Perseverance, in October, 1860—Dron came to me first about it—he was introduced to me by another person, who belonged to the same society—Dron said it was a very good society, and free of anything; that they had so much money in Liverpool, or Manchester, their head office—he did not produce any prospectus to me—I insured my son's life for 8l., and my own for 4l.—Dron used to call every Sunday morning for the subscription—sometimes he would neglect it, and leave it for three weeks, and I used to ask him sometimes, if anything occurred, how I should get on, in case of death, from his not calling—he said it would be his fault, and not mine—I continued making these payments for two years and a half, up to February last, and I left the remainder of the money at my lodgings for Dron to call for—on 4th April, my son was taken ill—he had had an accident about twelve months before, one of the traveler's carts in the City was overturned, and he hurt himself, and was not well afterwards—I informed Dron that he was ill, about June last—he continued calling up to February—my son gradually sunk, from the time of the accident, and got weaker and weaker till he died, on 4th April—nobody called for the subscriptions between February and 4th April—I sent notice to the office of my son's death, and I called there myself, but could not find any one there—I then went to Oxford's house, 8, Lambeth-square, and inquired of him—he said he would put my case before the committee—I said, "The least you can do is to give me the money out that I have paid in"—he said I was out of limits, through not paying my weekly subscription—I said that was through Dron's not calling; that the money was left at my lodgings for him—I asked where Dron was—he said he could not be found; he did not know where he was—he then said he would put my case before the committee, and I was to call on Friday evening, not before ten minutes after 9—I went there and found Oxford, his son, and Knowlden—they said I

could pay my claim, and enter again, but they should not pay me any money for my son; I could do my best and my worst—I never saw Dron after that, till I saw him in custody—I had no copy of the rules given me when I joined the society; nothing but this collecting book (produced)—this is my policy inside it—I never attended any meeting, and never had a notice of one—I never received any copy of a balance sheet of the society—I have asked Dron for one several times, and he has said he would let me have one in the course of a little while when they made up their accounts—I never saw one.

Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. Where did you leave the money for Dron to call for? A. At 4, Hampton-street, Walworth-road—I moved from Frauds-street, to Suffolk-street, and from Suffolk-street to Hampton-street—Dron has called there for the money on several occasions, and had it—I have seen him call—I left the money with Mr. Cooke, my landlord—he is not here—I am generally out all day—I had no rules given to me—no rules were given out before they moved into Mount-street; then I believe they were fresh printed—I dare say I might have got a copy by applying for them, but they were never offered to me; in most societies, I believe, they are generally given on entrance.

MATILDA TUTT . I live at 40, Charles-street, Horslydown, and am a widow—in December, 1860, Oxford called on mo about the Perseverance Society—he gave me a prospectus, which stated the amount they had in the bank, and I agreed on a payment to insure my own life, and the life of my daughter and two sons—he told me that they had 5,000l. capital in the Bloomsbury Bank—I asked him if he wished for medical examination, as I, myself, had been medically examined, but neither my sons or my daughter bad—he said, "No; if you answer my questions truthfully that is quite sufficient"—there was no examination—I insured my daughter's life for 8l.—I paid her premium separately,—my own and my two sons I paid together—my sons was for 6l. 12s. and my own for 8l.—my daughter died in September twelvemonth—the last payment made on account of myself and my sons was on 23d September, 1862—my daughter's was paid up to a fortnight before she died—after her death my son went to the office, but could not find it—I then went myself—I saw a woman and left the certificate with her—next day I saw a son of Oxford's, and a day or two afterwards the prisoner, Oxford, called on me, with Knowlden—they told me that I should not have my money, that I had begun it and they would finish it; that my daughter was consumptive when she entered the society, in 1860—I told them it was no such thing, that she was in good health when she entered it—Knowlden said he had nothing to do with the society, but as an agent; but he afterwards called at my house as the secretary—I left the certificate at the office (this was called for, bid not produced)—my daughter had not consumption when she joined the Society in 1860—Dr. Hall attended her at her illness—he is not here—she died the 12th day after giving birth to a still-born child—I did not continue to pay the insurance on my own life after that; no one ever called for it—I never attended any meeting of the society—I never received a notice of any—I never had a copy of the balance-sheet.

Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. Your daughter did die of consumption, did she not? A. I do not dispute that there were symptoms of consumption about her when she expired, but I consider she died from other causes—she was not consumptive when she entered—she was considered to be consumptive after she got married—the doctor first attended her about March or June, 1861—she then reclaimed her health, and in September she

was in good health—Mr. Hall lives at Milton House, Horsleydown—he attended her a few weeks for her first illness, and six or seven weeks for the second—she was married in September, 1862, and her husband died six months afterwards—she was in health when she was married—in June, 1861, she had a few weeks illness from a cold, but she recovered after a week in the country—she went to Faversham, in Kent—the insurance was not made on her life, after a proposal in writing—(looking at a paper)—I cannot swear whether that is my own writing or my daughter's—this "Matilda Tutt" is mine—this paper was left by Oxford to be filled up before my daughter was accepted as an insurer—I cannot say whether the "Noes" put in answer to these various questions, is my writing or my daughter's; it one or the other.

Cross-examined by MR. KYDD. Q. Did you consider your daughter a woman of rather delicate health? A. She was delicate to look at—after they had disputed the claim, I made an application to have the matter referred to arbitration, under the rules of the society, but they would come to no settlement at all—I did not pay down 10s. but my solicitor would have done it.

MR. CLERK. Q. Had your daughter ever been afflicted with consumption before? A. No.

MARIA MANSFIELD . I am the wife Joseph of Mansfield, of 6, Spencer-street, Shoreditch—in March last, Oxford called on me—I had not known him before—he asked me to belong the Perseverance Insurance Society—he told me it was a very good substantial thing; they had got a capital of 5,000l.—he left a book with me and a policy—he called again, and left me two cards, and took away the policy and the book—I then agreed to join the society, and I paid him 3d. a week, on the life of my husband, and a 1d. on one child—these are the cards—I think the payments commenced on 6th April—(Card read: "Perseverance Life and Sick Fund Insurance Society Life department Enrolled according to Act of Parliament, by J. Tidd Pratt, Esq., pursuant to Act of Parliament. Chief office, Mount-street. Capital 5,000l. This is to certify that Maria Mansfield, has become a member of the society; the assuring party having declared that the assured was in a perfect state of health. Collector, J Oxford; residence, 8, Lambeth-square, Lower Marsh,")—I continued to make the payments up to 20th July, this year—I never attended any meeting of the society—I was never summoned to any meeting.

HENRY FRANCIS JACKSON . I am cashier in the London Provident Institution, Moorfields—I have my books with me—on 11th May, 1859, a sum of 20l. was deposited at our bank by Thomas Oxford, on behalf of the Perseverance Sick Fund and Life Assurance Society—on 10th June 8l. was repaid, on 16th July, 5l. to Thomas Oxford, on 7th December 5l., and on 30th December the balance of 2l.—that account has never been re-opened, or any more money paid in—there is 3s. for interest remaining to their credit—at the time the money was paid in Oxford signed this declaration—it is a form which is signed by depositors when they pay money in for Friendly societies, and this (produced)is an investment order, which is required to be produced before the account is opened—it is signed by three members, Dron, Cummings, and Knowlden, identifying Oxford—(This declaration was put in and read).

Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. When was the money all drawn out? A. The last amount, 2l., was withdrawn on 30th December, 1859—

Oxford would know, from the deposit book, that 2s. 11d. was credited for interest on 21st November.

Cross-examined by MR. KYDD. Q. Is any notice required prior to taking out money? A. Seven days' notice was required at that time—there has been a recent alteration—Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, are the days for withdrawing money.

HENRY TOMKINS . I am chief clerk in the office of Mr. Tidd Pratt, the Registrar of Friendly Societies—the Perseverance Life Assurance and Sick Fund Friendly Society, was registered on 28th April, 1859—the names of the trustees of the society were never filed with the registrar—they are required to be sent—the names of the auditors are not required to be sent; nor are they usually sent—the trustee's names are required by law—by the Act of Parliament the balance-sheets of the different Friendly societies are received yearly—a balance-sheet was received from this society in 1862—I can't say the date at which I received it—the date of the audit appears on the balance-sheet, 28th July, 1682—it appears to be audited by Henry Coombs and Thomas William Oxford—it is made up to 23d June, 1862—the total available cash is stated to be at that time, 243l. 5s. 8 1/2 d.

COURT. Q. You say no names of trustees were filed; would it be the duty of anybody in your office to communicate with them? A. No; if no balance-sheet is transmitted, the Act of Parliament gives power to commence proceedings and recover a penalty of 20s.—that has been frequently done in order to enforce the transmission of a balance-sheet.

Cross-examined by MR. KYDD. Q. Has any such penalty been enforced against these persons? A. No—this is the only balance-sheet we ever received from them—there are a very large number of societies which do not return balance-sheets—we enforce penalties against those societies as far as our staff and time will allow us—this "year we have summoned twenty or thirty, and shall continue until Christmas, as fast as we can—there are about 20,000 societies altogether—about half them returned balance-sheets last year—I believe this is the only balance-sheet returned by the Perseverance—search has been made for all the papers, and I hate all with me that have been found in the office relating to this society.

MR. CLERK. Q. Do you find all the papers belonging to the different societies together? A. Not all the papers, all the roles and all the annual lists are together.

CAROLINE BIGGS (re-examined). At the time I got the other papers, I can't say that I got a prospectus with the names of persons whose claims had been paid—I had a balance-sheet given to me—I had no document of this sort (looking at one).

GEORGE HOBBS . I am agent to Mr. Wilson, landlord, of 5, Waller-place—I know the three defendants—Dron took that house—it was let under an agreement in writing—they took it in the middle of the half quarter—the half quarter was due at Christmas, 1858—Dron took the house—I believe it was afterwards opened as an office, at least they had a plate put up—I don't know when—I think it was shortly after they removed in—Dron was supposed to pay the rent, as he took the house—he was my tenant, but Oxford has paid some rent at times—the rent was paid very irregularly; it was not paid quarterly—the house was let quarterly—the first half quarter was paid on 28th October, a quarter was paid on 5th May, 1859, another on 13th September, 1859—on 17th December, 12s. 4d. was paid, I believe by Dron, property-tax and cash 7s. 2d., making 1l.—on 2d January, 1862 another pound—on the 9th 2l., on 24th 1l., on 7th February 2l., on

22d. 1l. 15s., and so it continued, small amounts paid, up to the end of the tenancy—we distrained on 9th September, 1862, and this paper signed by Dron and Oxford was given to the broker—(This was a resignation of the premises to the landlord, upon being allowed to move the goods and effects, signed by Dron and witnessed by Oxford)—on giving me this paper we allowed them to leave, without getting any rent—I do not know where they went to.

GEORGE CATT . I live at 6, Mount-street, Westminster-road—I know the three defendants—they had an office at my house—I came into occupation of the house on 15th January, this year—they then had the whole of the house except the shop—after I came they occupied one room behind my drawing-room, on the first floor—there was a plate on the private door, "Chief office of the Perseverance Society"—they paid 6s. a week for the room—I was always at home—the defendants attended there occasionally, not regularly—young Oxford would come every day and occasionally Knowlden and Oxford would come—a daughter of Oxford's came every morning for the letters out of the letter-box—no general meeting was held in the room while I was there.

Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. How many persons do you remember being in that room altogether? A. I never saw anybody go up but the defendants—they used to meet on Friday nights—I was never in the room after I let it.

Cross-examined by MR. KYDD. Q. "What is the size of the room? A. About ten feet by eight—half of it was taken up to form an office board—I wanted them to go altogether, and in consideration of their moving out of the house, I allowed them to retain the back room as an office.

MARY ANN LITTLKJOHN (re-examined). I had both these books (produced) in my possession—they had not this green piece on them when I received them—Dron brought that one evening when he came collecting, and pasted it on the back.

The following witnesses were examined for the Defence.

SARAH ROGERS . I live at 6, Furnival's Inn-place, Holborn—in 1859 I had a husband, named Charles James Forbes Rogers, and a child, named Rachel Rogers—I insured their lives in the Perseverance Society—my child died on the 26th October, four years ago, and my husband died on 8th January, 1860—my husband was insured for 5l., and my child for 3l.—I received those sums from the society—I think I received the child's insurance on the next day after she died, and my husband's two or three days after he died.

Cross-examined by MR. BEASLEY. Q. When did you become a member of the society? A. When it first commenced—Mr. Oxford asked me to—I was in the Friend in Need Society—I did not exactly leave that; I am in that now—I did not transfer my insurance—I entered in the Perseverance again for my children—I don't know how much money I paid—I had not paid in much when I had that out—I have no insurance there now—I have not had anything to do with that society for the last eight or nine months—I gave it up because I could not afford to pay.

MRS. WOODS. I live at 9, Red Lion-court, Fleet-street—in 1859 I insured my own life, my husband's, and the lives of four children, in the Perseverance—one of the children, named Charlotte Woods, died in June, 1861, and on 19th June, 1861, I received the sum of 1l. 10s. in respect of that insurance—in February, 1861, I insured on the life of another child for 1l. 10s.; she died in July, 1861, and in that month I received the sum of 30s. on that insurance.

Cross-examined. Q. Who asked you to belong to this society? A. We did belong to the Friend in Need; Mr. Oxford used to gather money for them, and he asked us to belong to him, and so we went to that—we paid to this society till we saw this case in the paper, and then my husband would not pay any more—we were paying 9d. a week altogether up to that time.

ELIZA ALICE CLIFT . I now live at Chatham—I had a child, named Eliza Ann Clift, whose life I insured in this society—I don't know when that was, in October, I think; I can't tell you what year—I paid about two years—the child died on 23d November, 1862, and on 15th December, I received the amount, 2l., for which I had insured—this is my signature on this policy (produced).

Cross-examined. Q. Who paid you the money? A. Mr. Oxford—I only made one application—I had no difficulty in getting it—I was also in the Friend in Need—Mr. Oxford came with Mr. Pattison to ask me to change into this society—I had two new policies from Mr. Pattison for myself and my little boy—I have had none from Mr. Oxford—I never attended any meeting of the society, and never heard of any.

MR. BESLEY. Q. Your child died a month before you had the money, I believe? A. Yes.

SARAH WORSDELL . I live at 13, Stoney-lane, Tooley-street—in January, 1860, I had a child, named Mary Ann Worsdell, about two years and a-half old—on 13th January, 1860, I effected an insurance on her life in this society for 3l.—I paid a penny a week—the child died on 16th February, 1861, and I received 3l. three days after its death.

Cross-examined. Q. Had you ever any notice of any meeting of the society, or did you attend any? A. No.

GEORGE FRASER . I live at Henry-street, Troy Town, Rochester—in November, 1860, I had a child, named Mary Jane Fraser, a little over one year old—I effected an insurance on her life for 3l., and paid a penny a week—she died as near as I can remember on the 6th or 10th of December last year—on 31st December last I received the sum of 3l. from this society.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you in the Friend in Need? A. No, in the "Perseverance"—I belief e it was Mr. Oxford who asked me to join it—I paid the money to the person who came round, Mr. Oxford—I did not attend any meeting of the society.

MR. BESLET. Q. Did you get papers from time to time from the society? A. Yes, we bad some papers delivered to us; rules of the society, I believe—I have had one paper like this—I have seen something similar to this before.

MRS. GRINSTEAD. I live at 21, Coleman-street, Ordnance-place, Chatham—in February, 1861, I bad a child, named Stephen Alfred Grinstead, about the age of one year—I effected an insurance on his life in this society for 30s. by the payment of one halfpenny a week—he died on 18th January, 1862—I received the money from the society about ten or eleven days after the child's death.

Cross-examined. Q. Who was it paid you? A. Mr. Thomas Oxford—that was not the only insurance I had—I had four other children then, and now I have five—I am paying on them up to the present time.

MR. BESLEY. Q. To whom have you been paying this last month? A. Mr. Pattison, he belongs to the Friend in Need—since these proceedings zwe have been transferred to the Friend in Need.

CHARLOTTE ANN HOILES . I live at 21, Newman-street, Chatham—in

August, 1860, I had a child, named George Lewis Hoiles, aged about one year—I effected an insurance on his life for 3l. by payment of a penny a week—he afterwards died on 18th November, 1862, and on 4th December, 1862, J received the sum of 3l. from Mr. Oxford—I also had a child, named Richard Hoiles, about two years of age—I insured his life for the same amount, and at the same period; he died on 21th of the same November as the other, and on 28th of that month I received the amount of the insurance, 3l.

MARY ANN WARD . On 3d October, 1859, I was living with my husband, Daniel Ward, in Front-row, Ordnance-place, Chatham—I now live in Rochester—in October, 1859, I effected an insurance on his life for the sum of 14l., he died 25th October, 1862, and on 19th February, 1863, I received the sum of 14l. from the society.

MRS. CLAYTON. I live at 8, Victoria-terrace, Bermondsey—in November, 1861, I had a child, named Walter Clayton, aged about one year—I effected an insurance on his life, at the payment of a penny a week, for 3l. at death—he died on 4tb July of this year, and on the 10th I received the money.

Cross-examined. Q. From whom? A. From Mr. Knowlden.

ELIZABETH WRIGHT . In September, 1859, I was living with my husband in Troy Town, Rochester—I effected an insurance on his life for the sum of 8l., by payment of 2d. a week—he died in February; I don't know the date—he has been dead nine months—on 16th February, 1863, I received a sum of 8l. from the society.

Cross-examined. Q. Who asked yon or your husband to become a member of the society? A. Oxford, I think his name was; he came down to Rochester; not one of these prisoners, a younger man.

ROBERT TOPS . I am a clerk in the Friend in Need Company; it is a Life assurance company—I brought these policies from the Friend in Need office hero—it is within my knowledge that they have been transferred into the books of the Friend in Need Society—there are rather over 600 altogether transferred from the Perseverance to the Friend in Need.

MR. CLERK. Q. Is there any deed transferring the policies? A. I don't know, that would take place between the directors of the two societies.

COURT. Q. Has your office been receiving the weekly payments upon them? A. Yes, within three months ago—the policies are of various years—here is one on 26th September, 1859; there are some of 1862—the highest number here is 6,386, that is dated 3d February, 1862—the Friend in Need Society have issued upwards of 220,000 policies altogether—it has been established from 1833.

Cross-examined by MR. CLERK. Q. Have you taken all the policies of the Perseverance? A. I don't know whether they have all come over—we have taken upwards of 600—we were prepared to take all who chose to come—the policies were sent up by the respective agents, with the consent of the parties insuring—we receive weekly payments in the Friend in Need—it was an agreement between the directors that we should take these policies—I, as a clerk, cannot enter into that—I have not got that agreement.

COURT. Q. Do you know of any money being paid over by the Perseverance to the directors of the Friend in Need? A. I do not.

GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months each.

KNOWLDEN and DRON received good characters.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1267
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

1267. WILLIAM FOWLER (49) , Unlawfully enticing away Mary Ann Ashby, a child under 14, with intent to deprive Stephen Ashby, the father, of her possession.

MR. THOMPSON conducted the Prosecution.

MARY ANN ASHBY . I live with my parents, at Yalding, in Kent—I have lived there ever since I was born—in September last I was hop-picking, down close where we live—my father was not hopping—I have no mother—the prisoner was engaged in the same field, hop-picking—I don't know when we first went hop-picking—I left with the prisoner on a Wednesday, and went to Maidstone—I went with him because he said he would buy me a pair of boots—I think Maidstone is eight miles from Yalding—we walked, and got to Maidstone at night—we remained there all the next day—I slept in a cart-lodge along with the prisoner—I had no meals while we were there: only a piece of bread that he gave me—from Maidstone we walked to Gravesend, and stayed there the night—the prisoner slept with me in a house there, in a bedroom—we walked from there to Woolwich—I had never been the road before—I slept at Woolwich that night in a bed in a house—I slept alone that night—the prisoner had a bed by himself in another room—from Woolwich I came to London with the prisoner—I don't know where we went to in London—I did not sleep in London—they locked him up, and took me to Camberwell Workhouse—that was on Sunday—he did not say why he took me from Maidstone to the other places—I asked him about the boots when we got to Maidstone, and he said his aunt would buy them the next day—I asked to go back and he said he would take me back—that was in Maidstone—I kept asking him, and he said I should go back when I got my boots—he said he had asked my father whether I might go with him, and he had said I might.

Prisoner. I did not say I had asked your father? Witness. You did; you said that if I went back without my boots my father would beat me.

STEPHEN ASHBY . I am a labourer, living at Yalding, and am the father of the little girl—she is thirteen years old—I have known the prisoner for some time—my little girl went hop-picking this year—I saw the prisoner once during the time he was hopping—he did not ask my permission to take my little girl away—I did not give him, or any other person, authority to take her away—I missed her first about 9 o'clock on Wednesday night, 23d September—I inquired for her, and they said she had gone to Maidstone with William Fowler—I went to Maidstone, searched the town all over, and gave information to the police in the district about there. known the little girl from a child, and had known the prisoner a short time by his working at hop-picking—I said to him, "Well, where are you going to this road?"—he said he was going to London—I said, "Who do you go to see there?"—he said he was going to see Polly's uncle; that is the little girl—I asked the little girl if she had an uncle in London—she said, "No, Mr. Peters; I have no uncle, and nobody I know in London"—I said to him, "Who gave you leave to bring this child from hornet"—he said, "Mr. Ashby did"—I "asked the little girl if her father knew she had come from home—she said, "No"—I asked her where he had brought her to—she said he had brought her to Maidstone, intending to buy her a pair of boots and did not buy them—I asked her how long she had been away—she said, since Monday morning, at half-past 7 o'clock"—I then asked her whether the man had slept along with her—she said, yes, he had slept with her three nights out of four—during the hop-picking I saw him give the little girl sweet-stuff, and she laid out a few halfpence on him for a bit of cheese

and bacon, and butter—I told the prisoner I should give him into custody, because I thought he was not doing right—the child cried to me to go home with her—I gave him into custody—Mr. Dan, the inspector, thought I had better take the child to the workhouse.

GEORGE WORMAN (Policeman, P 210). The prisoner was given into my custody by the last witness, on Sunday morning, the 27th—he told the prisoner the charge in my presence—he said nothing—he afterwards said he was going to buy her a pair of boots, and take her back to her father—I found no money upon him.

JAMES DAN (Police-inspector, P). When the prisoner was brought before me he said in answer to the charge, that he took the girl to Maidstone to buy her a pair of boots—I asked him how he could buy them without money—he said he was to get the money from his aunt—he afterwards said he was to meet his aunt somewhere in London on the Monday morning—he did not name any place—he said she was coming up to get some money out of the Bank of England.

Prisoner's Defence. If I had met my aunt I should have bought the little girl the boots, and taken her home on the Monday night to her father.

GUILTY .— Confined Two Years.

Before Mr. Baron Martin.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1268
VerdictsGuilty > with recommendation; Not Guilty > unknown
SentencesImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

1268. JOHN DAVIS BRYAN (32), and HENRY SHERWOOD (28), were indicted for feloniously forging and uttering a warrant for the delivery of 30 barrels of flour, with intent to defraud, and WILLIAM DAY (40), and WILLIAM REED (46) , as accessories after the fact.

MESSRS. LILLEY and THOMPSON conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN ROGER HALL . I am superintendent at the wharf of Messrs. Bovill and Co, merchants and granary keepers, at Shad Thames—we had there in March in the name of John Huntsman 180 barrels of American flour, and 100 of another lot, but the same flour, and the same name—they were delivered to the order of Rayment Brothers of Broken-wharf—it was all sound—this order, marked A, was presented at the office on 27th March, in the morning part.

Cross-examined by MR. BUSH COOPER (with Mr. Sleigh for Day). Q. Did you examine all the flour? A. Not every barrel; but it was all sound or else it would have been taken as damaged—there would be no external appearance of it—I can say confidently that it was not damaged—no claim has been been made for damage; it has been paid for as sound—the thirty barrels were worth about 40l.

Cross-examined by MR. MONTAGUE WILLIAMS (for Sherwood). Q. Was Sherwood employed at your wharf? A. No; I do not know him, or what employ he was in on 27th March—shortly after the robbery, in consequence of inquiries relating to Sherwood, he came down to our wharf at my request, I believe, to be identified—my recollection is that the detective-officer, who had the case in charge, requested him to come down—he was not identified then, but he had no connexion with the flour now before the Court, it had reference to another forged order for thirty barrels, dated 25th March, which we have not been able to trace—he was never brought down at all in reference to these thirty barrels—at that time he was in the employ of Mr. Pratt, a flour carman, of Paddington, in whose service he has been since—I did not know at the time he was taken in custody for this that he was in Mr. Simmonds' employ.

GEORGE PHILPS . I am deputy-foreman at the prosecutor's wharf, and

was so on 27th March—I receive nearly the whole of the orders brought to the wharf for the delivery of goods, and give them to Mr. Hall—this order marked A, for thirty barrels passed into my hands on the day mentioned therein—two lots of fifteen each were delivered, one after breakfast, and the other after dinner—I have some knowledge of Bryan delivering the order, but I will not be positive on that point—to the best of my belief it was him—to the best of my belief, when the man came in the van for the first fifteen, I asked whose van it was, and he said, "Mr. Groves'," and it is so entered in the receipt-book, which he signed in the name of "J. Saunders"—here is "Groves' van" in my writing—it-was originally "cart," and I altered it to "van"—I was present when the barrels were delivered, both in the morning and in the afternoon—I counted them both in the vans after they were delivered—Wood, I believe, is the man who presented the order for the last fifteen barrels, and signed the receipt for them—on that occasion Wood's van was mentioned, and he signed, "H. Wood"—I gave the order to the granary-man for the delivery.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER (for Bryan). Q. I suppose you have executed no end of orders since that? A. Yes—a great many come into the yard in the course of the day—my attention was first drawn to this order about a fortnight or three weeks afterwards.

JOHN HART . I am granary-man at Bovillls-wharf, and was so on 27th March—I produce the wharf-sheet for that day's work—it is in my writing—there were thirty barrels of flour delivered in two fifteens—I delivered more that day, but not in those quantities—to the best of my belief I delivered them to Wood and Bryan; they were both together on each occasion, to the best of my belief—the flour was sound.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Are you quite sure that the same man came, and the same van on each occasion? A. To the best of my belief.

HENRY WOOD . I am a greengrocer, of 39, Holland-street, Blackfriars-road—I have lived there eighteen months—on 27th March Sherwood and Bryan came to my house together about 10, or half-past, in the morning—Sherwood said that they wanted the horse and van to receive some flour, that Bryan had to sell some on commission—my horse was in the van, and I went with Bryan to Bovill's-wharf, Shad Thames—Sherwood did not go with us—Bryan went to the office, and gave me directions where to load after he came out again—I then drew up my van and received fifteen barrels of flour, and drove to Reed's house, Bermondsey-square—he is a baker—the fifteen barrels were delivered there—I saw Mrs. Reed, or a woman who looked like the mistress—the flour was delivered into the bakehouse, I believe, in a court at the side of the house—Sherwood was there at that time, and he and another man took it in—I believe Bryan helped as well as the other two—I did not see Reed at all—my name was on the van—after delivering these fifteen barrels I went back to Bovill's-wharf—Bryan gave me a paper for fifteen more barrels of flour—I took it to the foreman at the wharf, who has been examined, and received fifteen other barrels—I signed a receipt for them, either "H." or "Henry Wood"—I went with them to Day's house, Holland-street, Blackfriars-road—I there saw Sherwood and Bryan, and another man, and Day also—I only live two doom from Day—the fifteen barrels were delivered at Day's into a warehouse, or stable, the underneath part, I mean on the ground-floor; there is a lift over it—this paper signed "H. Wood" is in my writing—the other paper, to the best of my belief, is the

one I received from Bryan, which I handed to the foreman—the receipt signed "Saunders" is not my writing; I do not know whose it is.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. I believe Day is a corn-chandler, and deals in corn and flour? A. Yes—he has always borne the character of an honest man—this flour was taken to his house in the afternoon; there was no concealment about it—I saw money pass from Day to Sherwood when the flour was delivered—I did not see how much; it was gold—I afterwards Raw the empty barrels standing in front of his place.

Cross-examined by MR. COLLINS (for Reed). Q. What is Reed? A. A baker—it was in the forenoon that I took the flour to him—there is a shop-entrance and an entrance for flour; I took it to the usual entrance for flour.

Cross-examined by MR. MONTAGUE WILLIAMS. Q. When did you first give any information about this? A. In September last—I know that Sherwood is in the flour-trade, and in the habit of carrying out flour.

MR. LILLEY. Q. When a communication was opened between you and the police, did you hand this paper to them? A. Yes; it is a wharf-note—I got it from the foreman at Bovill's-wharf.

THOMAS WHITBY . In March last I was superintendent at Rayment Brothers—it was my duty to sign orders for the delivery of flour—this paper marked "B" is my writing—it is an order for five barrels, given to a man named Baylis, dated 24th March—it was an order brought from Mr. Huntsman, of Oxford-street, by Baylis—these papers marked "A," "D," and "D 2," purport to be signed by me, but they are not; they are forgeries—the name of the vessel here is spelt "Darmsted"—on the genuine one it ia "Darmstadt"—I do not know the correct name.

LOT SAWYER (Policeman, M 175). On the night of 24th September, I went to Sherwood—I told him I was a police-constable, and I had come to apprehend him for being concerned with others in custody in stealing thirty barrels of flour, by means of a forged order, on 27th March, from Mr. Bovill's wharf, Shad Thames—he said, "I know nothing about it"—I asked him if he; knew a man of the name of Bryan—he said, "No"—I asked him if he knew a man named Wood—he said he did—I took him to the station, and charged him with being concerned with others in obtaining thirty barrels of flour from Mr. Bovill's wharf, Shad Thames—the acting inspector asked what he had to say to the charge—he said, "It is quite right what the constable has said; but I shall say nothing about it"

Cross-examined by MR. WILLIAMS. Q. Was that said in the presence of the inspector? A. Yes—he is not here—he did not say, "All right; I shall not say anything"—what he said was, "It is quite right what the constable has said; but I shall say nothing."

MR. LILLEY. Q. Did you afterwards take Reed into custody? A. Yes; on 16th September, on another matter—I did not ask him anything about this charge.

WILLIAM CUMMINGS (Policeman, M 190). I took Day into custody at his own stable—I told him I was a police-constable, and I had come to make inquiries respecting some flour that had been obtained by means of forced orders, on 27th March last, from Mr. Bovill of Shad Thames—I cautioned him as to what he might say—he said, "Very well"—I asked if he recollected receiving any flour on that date—he said, "I might have done so"—I asked him if he remembered Mr. Wood, his next-door neighbour, bringing him fifteen lands of flour on that date—he said, "Yes, I do"—I asked who he purchased it of—he said, "I do not know, for I often buy things in that way"—I asked if he had got any invoice, or any entry of it—

he said he did not know, but he would go and see—I then accompanied him to his shop—he looked over the invoices, but could not find any—I asked if he had got any entry in his book—he said no, he had not—I then took him to the station, and charged him—after that, and before he went before the Magistrate, he said that Wood saw him pay some money for the flour—I asked if he knew who he sold the barrels to—he said he did not—I asked what he got for them—he said he sold them for 4d. each to a man, as they were in his way—he keeps a cornchandler's shop, and sells floor, straw, and hay.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. I believe Wood was taken up on this charge at first? A. We went there to make inquiries, and accompanied him to the station—after the ease had been heard before the Magistrate, Bryan was made a witness, and was suffered to go at large—before he gave evidence I visited him in his cell—I did not tell him it was a pity he should be the innocent tool of a fellow of the name of Spain, who I knew to be a great scoundrel—I might have mentioned Spain to him; but I did not know him to be a scoundrel—I said I believed Spain was the head and front of the matter, and had got them into trouble—I tried to get from him all the information I could, in order to pursue and get Spain into custody—I have been trying part of the time to get hold of Spain—I do not know what Spain is—I believe he lived in London—I looked for him in a good many places—I do not know that he has left the country since this—I don't know where he is; we have been seeking for him—I went to Bryan's wife, and with her I tried to seek for Spain—I searched for some days—Bryan was not at liberty a moment; he was taken again immediately upon another charge—I don't know that Bryan is a plumber and glazier by trade; he was working as a painter—I did not see him working—I saw him in a yard in Bishopsgate-street.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. When you went to Day's and took him into custody, it was five mouths after the affair, was it not? A. Yes—I do not remember his telling me that when he made purchases for ready money, he did not make entries in his books; if he did say so, I did not hear him.

MR. LILLEY. Q. When you went to Bryan, were you accompanied by Inspector McIntosh?—A. No; by Mr. Maude, the deupty-governor of the goal—I had with me this paper, which I had received from Mclntosh—it was in consequence of receiving that paper, that I went to him—I made him no promise or inducement—he voluntarily came out of the felon's dock to give evidence (The orders were read).

The COURT considered there was no case against Reed or Day.

Bryan and Sherwood received good characters.

BRYAN— GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy on account of his characterSeven Years' Penal Servitude.


Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, ESQ.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1269
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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1269. JOHN KEMP (20), and HENRY DAVIS (18) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. W. H. COOKE conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS MERCER . I am a tobacconist of New Cross-road, Deptford—on 14th October, in the afternoon, a little boy named Ryan came for half an ounce of tobacco—he put down a bad florin—I questioned him, and in consequence of his answers went with him to the Church-path, where I saw the prisoners looking round the corner—when they saw me with the child

they bolted in different directions—I went after Davis—a constable gave chase, got on a cab, and galloped him down—when I got back to my shop Kemp was there in the custody of another officer—I gave the florin to the sergeant at the station.

EDMUND SHEEN . I am ten years old—I was playing with James Ryan in the Church-path on Wednesday, the prisoners came up and spoke to Ryan—the one who had a watch-chain gave Ryan something that looked like money, and I went with him to Mr. Mercer's shop—I stayed outside, and he said that he would give me half of what he would buy—the prisoners remained up the Church-path arm in arm—I saw Mr. Mercer come out with the boy, and when the prisoners saw him coming they ran away, and I lost eight of them—one jumped over a fence, and one ran Mercer's way.

ELLEN KING . I was in the school playground near the Church-path on Wednesday, and saw the prisoners walking up and down the path—I afterwards saw them running, and two painters' pursuing them—Kemp went towards the fence, and Mr. Hewitt followed—Kemp put his hands over, and threw something—I pointed out that spot to Nicholls an hour or an hour and a half after.

SAMUEL NICHOLLS . I live at 290, New-cross—I ran after the prisoners—Ellen King showed me the place where she had seen the things thrown—I got over the fence, and picked up a parcel containing seven half-crowns and florins, and about ten yards further on a bad half-crown, broken in two—I gave them to Tuck.

WILLIAM TUCK (Policeman, R 68). I was on duty in New-cross-road, and saw the prisoners running—I joined in the chase, and Davis cleared the fence, but Kemp could not get over—I got onto a cab, and pursued Davis about three quarters of a mile—I never lost sight of him—he was rather short of breath—when I got up to him I brought him back to Mr. Mercer's, where I found Kemp—they both denied the charge, and all knowledge of each other—Davis wore a watch-chain—I found on him 5 1/2 d. in copper, and a good six pence, half-an-ounce of tobacco in paper, a tobacco-box, and a pipe—I received this paper containing these seven coins—Davis refused his address, and said that he did not want his friends to know what he had been doing.

BENJAMIN ROBINSON (Policeman, R 215). I received Kemp from some persons who caught him—he was in a field opposite Mr. Mercer's—I took him to the shop, and found on him 15s. 6d. in good silver, 1l. 11 1/2 d. in copper, half-an-ounce of tobacco, two half-ounces of tea, half-a-pound of sugar, and a pawn-ticket—he gave no address—he said that he did not want his friends to know anything about it.

The boy Ryan was brought into Court, but was too young to be examined.

EDWARD SHEEN (re-examined). That is the boy I saw.

THOMAS MERCER . That is the boy who came into my shop.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This florin is bad—here are four florins in a paper also bad, and three of them are from the same mould as the first—these three half-crowns are bad.

Kemp's Defence. This young man asked me if he could find a near way to get to Camberwell-green; I accompanied him. He said, "There is the man," and set off across a field. I followed him, and jumped across a wooden fence. I remained there, and a painter said that I must have had something to do with it, or else I should not have been in his company.

Davis's Defence. I only went to him, and asked him for an address. I had never seen him in my life.

GUILTY .— Confined Two Years each.

26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1270
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

1270. MARY CLARK (40), was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. POLAND and KEMP conducted the Prosecution:

RICHARD JOHN COTMAN . I am barman at the Stanley Arms, York-street, Wandsworth—on 16th September, about 8 o'clock in the evening, the prisoner came for a glass of porter, which came to a penny—she gave me sixpence—I gave her change, and she left—as soon as she was gone I found it was bad—it was very soft—I tried it with my teeth, and then bent it in a detector, and gave it to Higgins, my fellow-servant, who broke it in two, and I gave it to a man to throw away—on 16th December the prisoner came again for a glass of porter, and gave me a bad sixpence—I jumped over the counter, and gave her in custody with the sixpence—I said that she was there the Wednesday before—she said that it was a mistake.

THOMAS REED (Policeman, M 461). The prisoner was given in my custody with the sixpence—she said that she had not been in the house before—I searched her pocket in the public-house, and found a good shilling, sixpence, and farthing—she said that she lived in Deptford, but did dot tell me where.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This is a bad sixpence.

Prisoner's Defence. I was going down to meet my two little children hopping, and took the sixpence in Petticoat-lane, where I sold some clothes. I did not know it was bad—I know nothing about the first sixpence.


26th October 1863
Reference Numbert18631026-1271
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

1271. GEORGE MONK (42), PLEADED GUILTY to unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.— Confined Ten Months.


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