Old Bailey Proceedings.
11th May 1863
Reference Number: t18630511

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Old Bailey Proceedings front matter.
11th May 1863
Reference Numberf18630511

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Sessions Paper.








Short-hand Writers to the Court.










Law Publishers in the Queen's Most Excellent Majesty.




On the Queen's Commission of



The City of London,





Held on Monday, May 11th, 1863, and following days.

BEFORE the Right Hon. WILLIAM ANDERSON ROSE, M.P., LORD MAYOR of the City of London; Sir EDWARD VAUGHAN WILLIAMS, Knt., one of the Justices of Her Majesty's Court of Common Pleas; Sir WILLIAM FRY CHANNELL, Knt., one of the Barons of Her Majesty's Court of Exchequer; Sir JAMES DUKE, Bart, M.P.; THOMAS CHALLIS, Esq.; THOMAS SIDNEY, Esq., M.P.; THOMAS QUESTED FINNIS, Esq., Aldermen of the said City; RUSSELL GURNEY, Esq. Q.C., Recorder of the said City; THOMAS GABRIEL, Esq.; JOHN JOSEPH MECHI, Esq.; ROBERT BESLEY, Esq.; SILLS JOHN GIBBONS, Esq.; and SIDNEY HEDLEY WATERLOW, Esq., Aldermen of the said City; THOMAS CHAMBERS, Esq., Q.C., Common Serjeant of the said City; and ROBERT MALOOLM KERR, Esq., Judge of the Sheriff's Court; Her Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer, and General Gaol Delivery of Newgate, holden for the said City, and Judges of the Central Criminal Court.







The following Prisoners, upon whom the Judgment of the Court was respited at the time of Trial, have since been sentenced as under:

Vol. lviii. page Sentence.

1 Buckstone, Lucy... 27... Confined Six Weeks, and Five Days in Newgate.

2 Mullens, Eliza... 28... Confined Twelve Days.

3 Burrows, Hepzibah... 59... Confined Six Days.

4 Goodram, William... 231, 234...Five Years' Penal Servitude.

5 Atkinson, Sarah... 244... Confined One Day.

6 Fuller, Benjamin... 336... Confined Twelve Months.

7 Taman, John... 359... Confined Nine Months.

8 Jenner, Sarah... 399... Confined Three Months.

9 Giffard, Louisa... 401... Confined Twelve Months.

10 Pattison, Johanna... 420... Confined Three Months.

11 Rinaldi, Peter... 460...Six Years' Penal Servitude.

12 Jackson, John... 503, 504...Ten Years' Penal Servitude.

13 Cole, Claude... 569... Confined Six Months.

14 Coleman, Charles... 645... Confined Three Days.

15 Weston, Henry... 677...Six Years' Penal Servitude.



A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoner's age.


OLD COURT.—Monday, May 11th, 1863.

Before Mr. Recorder.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-652
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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652. EDWARD LEWIS was indicted for a misdemeanor.

MESSRS. RIBTON and COLLINS conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE DAVIS . I lived at 99, Cumberland-street, Hyde Park—I now live at Bath—I have been bandmaster on board Her Majesty's ship Edgar—I came to London in September—I saw this advertisement (produced) in a newspaper, in consequence of which I wrote a letter, gift received this answer:—"1, St James-place, 24th September. 1862. To George Davis. Sir, in reply to your letter respecting the advertisement in the D. T. of yesterday date, I beg to state that the employment referred to is that of clerk and cashier in a monetary advance office, established 1850, should the nature of the duties suit please send references, and the matter shall meet with prompt attention, and you must also be prepared with a deposit of 50l. M. P."—I then called at St. James-place? but did not see the prisoner—I afterwards received this letter—26th September, 1862. Sir, by your calling here to-morrow at 11, or on Monday next at the same hour, I shall be happy to enter into particulars, and finally arrange. EDWARD LEWIS."I then called at 24, Eaton-place, and saw the prisoner—he told me that the situation was that of clerk and cashier in his monetary advance office, which was established in 1849, and that he advanced large sums of money—that my duties would be to keep the books, and receive installments of loans paid into the office—he showed me a book, and said that my duty would be to keep an account like that—it had a list of names and small amounts, such as persons might pay weekly—I told him if there was no more than that to do I Could do it very well, and the situation would suit me—he said that be should require a deposit of 50l.—I said that I had not got it with me—he said, "Leave something on it"—I told him I would bring something the next day—he said that my salary would be 1l. a week, and 1l. per cent on all moneys advanced out of the amounts that were. lent out of the office—he said his business was large, and he required the assistance of a clerk—there were blinds in both the windows with "Loan, discount, and deposit bank, established 1839," on them, and a large board outside the house—I called again on 3d October, and paid 10l. deposit on the 50l. and on the 7th I went again and

paid him 40l. making up the 50l.—he had an agreement ready drawn up, and he said that I must be quick as be wanted to go home—I signed it without looking at it, and afterwards found that it was useless—it was not stamped—I took it home—I went again on the 7th, and he said that there would be nothing to do till the following Monday, as he was getting my books indexed—when I went on the following Monday be gave me one book to rule, and said that the new books which were for me had not come home—I asked him for them two or three days afterwards, but they never came—the book that I ruled he kept in his own private room—there were two old books in the place which were never used—a great many persons came to apply for loans, and letters passed—2l. passed through my hands to the prisoner—I found that the prisoner was making use of my name, and trying to involve me in it—I remained there from 13th October to 16th December, but not one loan was granted—I once asked him about the business, and he said that be did not lend money so soon after quarter-day, so as to give the landlords a chance of getting their rents in first, and the second or third week I said, "There does not appear to be anything to do, and I shall feel obliged if yon will give me my money back, and I will go"—he said that he could not do that, it would not be legal—he must have written notice—I then wrote this notice—(This was dated November 6th, 1862, from the witness to the prisoner, stating that he wished to terminate the agreement between them on the deposit of 50l. being returned—The agreement was dated 7th October, 1862, between Edward Lewis and George Davis, by which Davis was engaged at a salary of 50l. per annum payable weekly; he agreeing to deposit 50l.; one month notice to terminate the agreement upon which the 50l. to be returned if all amounts due were then paid)—I am advised that is made out in such a, way that if I gave him notice I should not get my money—I asked him if he was going to settle with me—he said that I might go and do what I liked, he would not pay me till he was compelled, and he pretended that I had some papers of his—I received my salary for the first six weeks, but when I prevented him using my name he stopped paying me—he has written letters in my name—I left on 16th December—the prisoner did not come there from 5th December till the 16th—he had a letter from a solicitor, saying that proceedings would be taken, and I suppose he was frightened—I would not have parted with my 50l. unless I had believed that it was a bond fide concern, and an old established loan office, that the prisoner was perfectly solvent, and that the whole of his statements were true.

Cross-examined by MR. LAXTON, Q. Did not you part with your money on the faith of getting honourable employment? A. Certainly—I went there first on, I think, Saturday, 27th September, and saw the witness Felling ham—I was the only person at the interview—my wife was not present—Fellingham did not tell me that, Mr. Lawis had only been there a short time, or that he carried on business at Blackfriars-road, and other places—he said that he bad known Mr. Lewis a great number of years, who was an honest upright man, and he had no doubt I should do well with him—I inquired what I should have to do—he said that I should have to keep the books—I did not know till two months afterwards that the prisoner had not been there long—there was not painting going on—there is not a name painted up now—there was furniture there—the blinds looked as if they had been there for years—a number of persons applied for loans, but they did not see Mr. Lewis—some persons asked for Mr. Davis, but I showed them in to the prisoner—he tried to involve me in it as well—letters were written in name, and the, prisoner had a letter-box put up in the door, so that I

could not see the letters, but I saw one—I know person who obtained loans, and a great many who did not—Mr. Jones did not apply for a loan to my knowledge—my salary was due on Saturday, but I often had to wait till Tuesday for it—I received it for six weeks, until I made a disturbance do about my name being used, but I did not receive my commission—he said there could be none, because no loans were granted—these (produced) are some copies in my writing of some old bills which he was going to sue upon—there were two old books lying on the counter—they related to the business of a loan office keeper—the prisoner gave me twenty-seven of these forms, but the top and bottom was cut off, I only had the centre—this one has my writing on the back—It has no top to it, but the bottom is on—there is no address even on this—I recollect making inquiries of Mr. Bartlett—the answer was that the security was not sufficient, and the lean would not be granted—I was not engaged as inquirer for the office, but as clerk—I went and inquired if he sent me, but was not employed in that way—I was sometimes three or four days in the office with nothing to do—above one or two persons a week came to make inquiries—I only once went to a public-house with Felling ham, when he asked me whether, if I got my money back, I should be satisfied, or if I should do anything further—the prisoner has never complained of my being out with Felling ham—the prisoner said that some person at the bottom of the house was keeping his letters, and he wasted to send them to my address—I said that he could not as it was not my house—he did complain that I had some letters of his after I had cautioned him not to use my name—when I wanted my money back, the prisoner said, "Give me the letters and papers yon have, and I will pay you your salary," but he said nothing about returning my money—he complained of my smoking in the office once when I had been waiting there doing nothing—he had not been there for a long time, and I thought he never was coming back—I do not know that when he was absent he was in a case at Guildhall—I have been told so many lies that I believed nothing I heard—Casey took my situation—he was there eight or ten days before I left, and we had nothing to do bat to look at one another—my wife was present at the first interview—she is not here—I got this receipt (produced) when I paid the 10l.—I returned it to him because it was net stamped—he said, When the 40l. is paid a stamped receipt will be gives—(Advertisement read.: "Permanent employment; wanted a clerk in a public institution, a person of business habits who can command 50l.; address, M. P., 1, St. James place, Pall Mall.")

JOHN FERGUSSON . I am a oh been anger, of 33, Upper Eaton-sweet, Plimlico—I know the house, 26, Upper Eaton-street—that has not been a monetary advance office since 1849—I remember the prisoner taking the office in June, 1862—he remained about six months—after he came a board was put up with "Loan, discount, and deposit bank, monetary advance and discount office, established in the year 1849," on it—I an quite sure that was not there before the prisoner came there—there was no office there before that.

CORNELIUS BARRELL . I know No. 25, Upper Raton-street; it was the Constitutional Life Office—I was superintendent of the agents, and Fellingham was the cashier—the prisoner came there in August or September, 1862, and on 6th January I heard a conversation between aim and Mr. Fellingham, who kept the Constitutional Life Office, concerning she lucking up of a Mrs. Cole—Davis's name was mentioned, and Lewis said, "Why do sot you pay the boy the 25l.?"—Fellingham said, "Why do not you pay Darts back the

money?"—Lewis said, "Let him get it as he can," and that "he did not intend to pay him."

Cross-examined. Q. Do you mean to swear that? A. These were the words I am pretty well sure, but I will not pledge myself to the expression, as they were abusing one another about locking up Mrs. Cole—I do not live there—I was present, at the end of September, at the interview between Felling ham and Davis—Felling ham said that Lewis had only been established there a few weeks, but had been established at other places many years, mentioning 1849, and was a respectable man—they went out together—I think Davis had seen the prisoner then—the prisoner's office was being painted at that time—there was a name painted up on a board, I think, and on the blinds were the words, "Loan, Discount, and Deposit Bank; Monetary Advance Office, &c,"—I know that the board and blinds came from 145, Blackfriars-road, which had been Mr. Lewis's office up to that time, he carried on business there ten year to my knowledge—I know parties who have had loans—Felling ham has not had a loan to ray knowledge, but he had a bill discounted—I know that the defendant has had a bill-discounting business at Fetter-lane six or eight year—I do not know the number, but I only knew him personally when he was carrying on the office in Blackfriara-road—I do not know of his advancing loans in Fetter-lane—I have seen books like these (produced) both in Blackfriars-road and Eaton-street, but I never looked inside any of them—I know, of my own knowledge, that a loan was granted to Jones.

MR. RIBTON. Q. Did you see the money paid? A. No, but I heard Mr. Jones say that he had got the money, and I know that an action was brought about it—Jones has had two loans—I always understood that the loan-office in Fetter-lane was carried on by the prisoner, but I have never been there—I have only just seen it in passing, and understood that it was If r. Lewis's—I have been to the office in Blackfriars-road, and seen Lewis there many times.

JAMES FELLINGHAM I was cashier at the Constitutional Life Office, 25, Eaton-street—I remember the prisoner coming there and taking two rooms, to the beet of my recollection, in June, 1862—a large board, with "Bank, Loan and Discount Office, established 1849, "on it, and which covered the whole front of the house, was then put up, and some blinds, with "Loan and Bank Office, established 1849, "upon them—I heard the prisoner say that he managed a loan-office at 16, Fetter-lane, for Mrs. Maria Foster, his sister—he said so when he was examined in an action—I have never known himself as proprietor of a loan-office—I recollect Mr. Davis calling both before and after Davis came—Lewis said, "I have seen that clock before, and I should be very glad to have it put in the office," that he had pledged it for a sovereign, and should be glad to get it out—since he came to Eaton-street I have lent him sometimes half a sovereign, and sometimes a few shillings, And he has also accommodated me—I was told that he and Davis were not going on very well, and I told Lewis it was a pity that he did not arrange to settle with the man—he told me to mind my own business, and not interfere with his—he also said, "I have had 50l. from Davis, and I have paid my rent and settled my little matters up; I have drawn up an agreement that they cannot make a criminal transaction of it, and when they try to do anything it will be merely a civil transaction, and he may go and take his amount out of it the same as my other creditors"—I said, "I understand you have offered a composition for 1,096l"—he said, "It is untrue; I have done nothing of the sort."

Cross-examined. Q. Has the Constitutional Life Office wound up? A. No, it is in abeyance—I did not bring it into existence—I did not find the money; it was my duty as treasurer to receive it—I received about 200l.—74l. of it was from one of the secretaries, and nothing from the other—Mr. Jones and nine or ten others were the committee men—I am in no business at present—I have been a solicitor, but am not now, because I have not taken out my certificate—I have been on the Bolls since 1825—I saw Davis before Mr. Lewis saw him—I did not tell him that Mr. Lewis had only been there a very short time; the question was never asked me—I know Mr. Barrell,—he was not present at the interview between me and Davis—I believe the board and the blinds came from 145, Blackfriars-road—I knew Mr. Lewis first at 16, Fetter-lane, and I understood he went from there to Blackfriars-road—I always believed he was managing the business for somebody—he has been in the business of a loan-office keeper for many years for Maria Foster—no agreement was contemplated between me and Davis when we were speaking together—this is my letter (produced)—it was not arranged that there should be an agreement between us—I said that Mr. Lewis would not be there till Monday—Davis never said that he wished for an agreement—he might have said that he wished to Understand what he was about—I do not think I ever borrowed a farthing of the prisoner in my life—I have lent him tens and fives, and taken his word for it—I do not think I ever lent him a penny; if I did it was paying for a glass of ale, or something of that sort—I generally take a glass of ale in the morning.

COURT. Q. Do you know Cornelius Barrill A. Yes—he was not present at any interview between me and Davis.

SIMEON JONES I am the landlord of 1, St. James place, Pall Mall—the prisoner never resided at my house—I did not, in September, 1862, give him authority to have letters addressed there—I never authorized him to use my house.

Cross-examined. Q. Who did you let it to! A. To gentlemen—I let it in lodgings—when I saw the police report I sent this total (produced) to the Telegraph and Times—I was not one of the directors of the Constitutional—when I saw it I put my pen through it and repudiated it—I did not get a loan from the establishment—I did from Mr. Levete, of 145, Blackfriars-road, and he was paid—that was October 18, 1862—I borrowed 5l., said there was 16s. 6d. interest—that was the first loan, but in March, 1858, I borrowed of Mrs. Maria Foster, of Fetter-lane, and this (produced) is a copy of the writ—the bill is destroyed for what I know—I have not searched for it.

COURT. Q. But in Blackfriars-road you borrowed of Levete? A. Yes; that is the prisoner's brother; he goes by that name.

BEMJAMIN HAZELL . I am a cab proprietor, of 34, Queen-street, Chelsea—on 4th or 5th December I applied at Upper Eaton-street for a loan of 100l. and paid a fee of two guineas—if the prisoner did not grant the loan he was to give me a guinea back—I received four or five letters from him—these are two of them—he came to my place to look at the property and at a lease which I had—I had no communication with the prisoner before December—I saw the prisoner's name in the papers, and wrote to him.

EDWARD NOLAN (Policeman, B 141). I apprehended the prisoner at 145, Blackfriars-road—I found that he lived there.

A certificate of the prisoner's bankruptcy and deed of compositions with his creditor were here put in.

Witness for the Defence.

WILLIAM CASEY . I went into the defendant's service on 5th December, at 25, Upper Eaton-street, as managing clerk, during his absence particularly—I was to attend to the books, and all matters that might occur during the day—there were two offices, his private office and my office—Davis was there when I went—one day in the week after 8th December the prisoner and his brother, and his son came, and the prisoner said, "Mr. Davis, I am quite prepared to pay you all that I owe yon if you will call at my other office in Blackfriars-road, and settle with you at once, if you will give me up my letters and papers which you have purloined; I will pay you everything?"—Mr. Davis said, "Those letters and papers are in my solicitor's hands; you must apply to my solicitor"—I heard no other conversation between them—these five books (produced) were in the office, and these two green ones were in Mr. Lewis's private office—I made no entries in them, I was not there long enough—I was only there ten days, and Mr. Lewis's son inside made the entries.

COURT. Q. I thought you were there still? A. I am in Mr. Lewis's employ still, but not at that office the goods were moved—I was ill three months—I was engaged to take charge of the books.

MR. LAXTON. Q. During the ten days you were there, how were you occupied? A. I had charge of the offices to answer all the calls made, and to attend to persons who called to procure loans; but they used to see Mr. Lewis's son in toe other office—Mr. Lewis was not there that week, he was in the City; he was there up to the 16th—I do not know how it was that Davis did not see these books; they were there.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. How long have yon known Mr. Lewis? A. Not before the engagement he made with me at Eaton-street—his brother, Mr. Levete, introduced mo to him—it was always Levete, not Levi—I know him through a relation of mine—I did not deposit anything—he was to pay me 1l. a week salary—I had nothing to do with the monetary department—a great many persons called, and some applied by letter—I did not enter the personal applications, but the son did—I made two or three entries, but I gave them over to the son—they were not in the books, only in a little memorandum book of my own—I do not know where it is now; it may hare been turned out of my pocket with other waste paper, and burnt—some persons called to borrow 50l., and some more—they paid money to the son—I saw them engage with him in the other office—I did not see money pass, bat I twice got change for the son to manage with—I do not know that it was change for half-sovereigns—there were three books in my office—I never made entries in them, but there were entries made, I should say, by Davis, previous to my going there—I did not see him make any, and do not know his writing—the son is about seventeen—I do not know the names of any person who called for loans, nor do I know of a single loan being granted to anybody, because I referred all the persons to the inner office—I was station-master at London-bridge, but left in September, 1862, and I went to Mr. Lewis in December—between those times I lived upon my wages from the railway, and money coming to me from a sick fund I established twenty years ago, and a bonus from the Directors—a great many old servants have left the railway—I suppose I had been too long with them—I was very glad of it, for I had rather nave the bonus than remain—I swear that they made me a present of a sum of money—I shall not say bow much, as it has nothing to do with this case—they gave me 20l—12l. of that was due to me, and, I presume, the 8l. was from the sick

fund—the proposal to leave came from them—I had been ill thirteen weeks, and I suppose they thought I was not active enough—I an still with Mr. Lewis at Blackfriars-road—he has left Eaton-street, and the boards and blinds are taken down, and taken to Blackfriar-road where they came from—Eaton-street never got too hot for me—at the time the boards were there the business at Blackfriars-road was going on just the same—while I was at Eaton-street I went to Blackfriars-road for books—the boards were never up there, but the name was up—they are not up now that I know of but on the side of the door there is, "Mr. Hill's office"—I do not know who he is—I am there doing Mr. Lewis's business; he lives there—I do not recollect whether is name is up—I have seen it up—I do not know where the board is or the blind; I presume they are up stairs, but I do not go up stairs—Mr. Lewis pays me 1l. a week, and I go on messages and so on—I have received money, but not installments of loans.

MR. LAXTON. Q. You say that yon have been station-master at London-bridge? A. Yes; I went into the service in 1837, and have been so twentysix years and four months—other old servants have left—if I had continued at Mr. Lewis's it would have been part of my business to make entries—my salary has been regularly paid me—it is a money-lending business which Mr. Lewis carries on in Blackfriars-road, the same as it was in Eaton-street.

JURY. Q. You were there ten days, was Mr. Lewis there daily? A. I was engaged on the 5th, and took charge on the 8th—Mr. Lewis had an action in the City on the 8th, and was obliged to be at Guildhalll all that week, from Monday to Saturday—I went there to him to communicate with him on two or three matters—he had to find all the witnesses, and see them there—the case did not come on till Saturday evening—I received my salary regularly, except during the time I was ill.

LOUIS LEVETE . I am the defendant's brother, and am clerk to Mr. Hill, an attorney, of 10, Basinghall-street, who has an office at 145, Blackfriars-road—I was at Eaton-street while Davis was there—books were kept in the loan-office, and also in Mr. Hill's business—Mr. Hill had an office in Eaton-street as well—I know of loans being advanced by my brother on my own introduction—as far as I can say ten or twelve loans were advanced during the period he was there—here are entries in these books showing the transactions—the two first are my introductions, October 16th and 17th, and the money was advanced, and the entries made in my presence—the next is "Simeon Jones, October 18th," the next "October 27th, Harriss, 93l. 17s.," a lady whom I introduced—those entries are in my brother's writing—we did business together—I advanced a portion of the money, and he advanced the remainder—here is another entry, "22d November, Mr. Blumenthal, 10l. 10s."—there is one on a bill of sale to Miss Wilmot, of Montpellier-square, for 100l.—we had a distinct book for matters in which I advanced part of the money—before my brother went to 25, Eaton-street, he carried on business at 16, Fetter-lane, Fleet-street, also at the Wagon and Horses, Newington-causeway, near the Sessions-house, and at 145, Blackfriars-road, previously to going to Eaton-street—he has carried on business in Fetter-lane ten years, as part proprietor with my sister in the loan-office—my father died, and my sister advanced some money for him to carry on the business—I think this large book represents those transactions—I have sued from Fetter-lane, and also from Blackfriars-road, and have done business to the extent of about 30,000l. up to the present time; not all in Fetter-lane—my brother carried on business in Fetter-lane between five and six years—the board and the blinds have been taken from Eaton-street to Blackfriars-road, and also the inner fittings.

Cross-examined. Q. Are the boards put up? A. No; I do not know why not—my brother is doing discounting business; he has given up the small loans, nothing under 10l.—it was at my suggestion that books were purchased for Eaton-street; we did not use the old ones because he was partner with my sister, and I did not want transactions with me, mixed up with transactions with my sister—he was not a bankrupt; he had a trust deed under this new act—he paid 1s. in the pound—he owed 200l. except to his family, I think he owed her attorney something—I am one of the trustees, and my brother-in-law, Mr. Cohen, a bottle merchant, of Newington, is another—this shilling in the pound is not due yet—the first deed we found to be bad, and to save litigation we asked the creditors to sign again—I do not think he signed a few days before he saw unfortunate Mr. Davis—he was not described as in partnership with his sister, but as manager to a loan-office—not a word was said about partnership—I know that he was in partnership with my sister—the money was left to my mother, and she being old, allowed my brother to use it to get his own living; he was to allow my mother a commission—I should imagine that he shared in the profits—he was manager and not proprietor of the loan-office at the time the deed was signed—I used to go to him and say, "If you have anything you cannot manage, do not send it away, send it to me, and I will do it"—I cannot recollect how many creditors signed, you have the deed there—my own family signed—I cannot say how many of them, or for what amount—I law Davis after he went into my brother's employment not before—my brother told me that he had secured 50l., and had told Davis that he was carrying on an extensive business, lending large sums of money, but had only been there a few weeks—he did not say that he had told Davis he was bankrupt—he was not bankrupt, he had only compounded with his creditors—the entries I have spoken of were made by my brother in my presence, at Upper Eaton-street; if you look through the books you will see them in his writing—he did not begin at the beginning of this book, because I told him to leave sufficient for me to index it—this money was actually given to the person less interest; I gave some of it myself—Mr. Harbury, an attorney, had the loan of 17l. 16s—he has not paid the whole of it—he is paying now—I have not sued him—he gave me a promissory note—his first instalment was on October 20th, and was paid to me on the Saturday at his office—my brother made the entry—my brother did not tell me that part of Mr. Davis's business was to secure instalments; he said he was to be inquirer—I have been in Court, because there was nobody to instruct Counsel but me, or to take charge of my papers and books—I am acting for Mr. Hill, of 10, Basinghall-street, and 145, Blackfriars-road—he attends to bankruptcy business—I have never been tried for anything—Simeon Jones, the painter, is down for 5l. 16s.—I sued him; I do the sneing business—the 5l. was given to him as a loan, and not for painting the house—I believe it was lent at Blackfriars-road; it was entered at Eaton-street because my brother has the money there—I do not know that my brother owed him for painting—40l. of this 93l. 17s. lent to Mrs. Harriss, of Jermyn-street, was mine, and the remainder my brother's; where he got it from I cannot say—that was a month before he signed this composition—I cannot say what his finances were in September, 1862—we have some very rich relations, and he might be bankrupt one day and not the next—I know my sister has been very kind, and my niece also, but to what extent I cannot say, and I gave him money to start him—the book was between him and me—Davis ruled it, but I had nothing to do with him.

COURT. Q. How many loans are there? A. Sixteen—the date of the last is December 23d, and the one before that December 22d.

MR. RIBTON. Q. Is that the only book in which there are entries of the affairs in Eaton-street? A. Yes; the other books were to refer to, if persons came who had bad former loans at Blackfriars-road—my brother sent circulars to them to say that the business was removed to Eaton-street, and there was a notice put up—it would take me a week to find an entry of a customer who went from Blackfriars-road to Eaton-street—this is one of the Fetter-lane books of 1859, and if old customers applied, it would be referred to to see whether the former loan was paid—the business did not continue to be carried on in Fetter-lane; my brother left there five or six years ago—there were customers at Fetter-lane who have not paid up—I think I am sneing some of them now—there are a good many defaulters who have been in my debt six or seven yean, some have gone abroad, and I have sent to America after them—all the books were removed from Blackfriars-road—this is one of them—supposing my brother knew you, and you would not be seen going into a loan-office, he would see you at his own private house—Davis was in the office, and he was told to refer persons to Blackfriars-road—I know that, because I have been present—any person who wanted to see my brother particularly, he was to send to my brother's private house—Davis never saw the persons who came, except to usher them in—he never knew what was paid.

COURT. Q. When was the business in Fetter-lane discontinued? A. Nine years ago, and from that time the business was carried on in Blackfriars-road—that was my brother and sister's business, and when my brother got into difficulties I had a little money left, and offered, if he could get some money, to go into business with him—the business at Newington-causeway was his own—it was discontinued about six years ago—for six years the only business carried on was in Blackfriars-road—nearly all these are bill transactions.

SAMUEL NICHOLLS COOPER . I am an attorney, of 43, Lincoln's-inn-field's—I have known the prisoner since 1852, when he was in Fetter-lane, as a loan-office keeper, and have had transactions with him, sometimes 100l. and sometimes 150l.—I also knew him at 145, Blackfriars-road—he had his bills out there as a loan and discount office, his residence is there now—I also know his sister—I acted as his attorney at Fetter-lane, and consider him to be perfectly honest.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know of his being bankrupt? A. I know of the deed being executed, it was in consequence of a long law suit in which I was interested for him, and which lasted six years—I did not know him in Eaton-street—he did not tell me that there was a place taken there which was established in 1849—I was concerned for him in the composition deed—I sued persons for him generally in Mr. Forster's name, but sometimes in the name of Lewis—the promissory notes were made payable to Lewis.

HENRY PHILLIPS . I was the prisoner's tenant, at 10, Fetter-lane—he was the landlord of the house—he carried on the business of a loan office for seven or eight years while I was there—I also knew him at 145, Blackfriars-road, opposite the Magdalen—I had three or four loans at Fetter-lane—there was a very large business done there, 4,000l. or 5,000l. perhaps, while I was there.

JOHN TILECUT . I am an engraver of 2, Becket-place—I was at the police-court, but was not examined—I knew Davis at Eaton-street; he called there at the latter end of October, and Mr. Fellingham asked me, on opening the door, who the person was that asked for Mr. Lewis—I said, "A gentleman"

—he said, "Show him in to me"—I did so, and it was Mr. Davis—the two rooms are blended into one, and I overheard Fellingham tell Davis that Mr. Lewis was not there, but would be there on Monday, that he was a monetary agent, and wanted him in the capacity of an inquirer, that he had been there only a short time, but had been established in Fetter-lane and elsewhere fifteen years.

Cross-examined. Q. What enables you to fix the date as the latter end of October? A. I attended a funeral on 25th October, and I know it was after that; it was the 26th or 27th.

MR. LAXTON. Q. Do you know anything of a letter? A. Yes; I was the bearer of a letter to Mr. Lewis, and it was on the evening of the same day—he read it in my presence, and I should know Mr. Fellingham's writing if I saw it, as I am in his employ—Mr. Lewis had not seen Davis before. The prisoner received a good character.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-653
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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653. CHARLES PRATT (17) , Stealing 2 feathers, the property of Joseph Andrade and another, his masters.

MR. PATER conducted the Prosecution.

JOSEPH ANDRADE . I am a feather merchant of Skinner-street, Snow-hill—the prisoner was in my service—from information I received, I watched him, and about 8 o'clock on the morning of 17th April, I locked myself in a cupboard, and made a hole in the door—(my usual time of getting to the warehouse was 10 or 11 or later)—I heard the street-door open, and then heard footsteps, and saw the prisoner go to a box of feathers, take out two white ones, undo his coat and waistcoat, and fasten them under his braces—they were worth about 10s. each; he picked out the best—I was in the cupboard the night previous, and saw him looking at them—he locked the warehouse-door, and I tried to get out of the cupboard, but could not get the lock to answer—I remained there two hours, and had to pass the key under the door to a friend, who came up to me.

Cross-examined by MR. DALEY. Q. Could the holes be seen outside? A. Perfectly well; I cut three—I have made no other charge against any person in my employment, except three years ago—I could not get out to tell the officer.

GUILTY .—He received a good character.— Confined Twelve Months.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-654
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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654. WILLIAM TYLER (58) , Stealing 80l., the money of Henry Rosenberg and another, his masters.

MR. LEWIS conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY ROSENBERG . I am in partnership with Mr. Myers, a cigar manufacturer, of 10, Fore-street—the prisoner was our porter for eight years—on 20th April I entrusted him with some notes, a crossed cheque, and a bank-book to take to the London and Westminster Bank, and he did not return—I knew the numbers of the notes—I heard nothing of him till he was in custody—I received back the pass-book and the crossed cheque, but not the notes.

WILLIAM PORTER . I am a clerk in the London and Middlesex Bank—the prosecutors have an account there—I was the clerk who would receive money paid to their account on 20th April—I know the prisoner—he did not pay any notes to their account that day or since.

RICHARD AYDE BALEY . I produce certain notes from the Bank of England endorsed Rosenberg and Myers—they were changed for gold on 20th April.

HENRY ROSENBERG (re-examined). This endorsement is in the prisoner's writing—these notes are the same numbers as those I entrusted him with.

JOHN MARK BULL (Policeman). I took the prisoner at Moor's coffee-house, in bed on the second-floor, and very much intoxicated—I told him the charge, and asked him what he had done with the money—he said, "I changed the notes for gold"—I said, "You need not answer unless you like," but he was too drunk to understand—he said, "I have no gold left, if I had a pistol, I could use it; I am an old soldier—I held him while Fox searched him; some sovereigns, and half-sovereigns, some coppers, and a new silver watch, and a banker's pass-book—next day, going from the station to the justice room, he said that he should not have committed himself if it had not been for drink; drink had been his ruin throughout life.

The prisoners statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows;—"I am guilty of changing the notes and using part of the money.

Prisoner's Defence. I committed the offence through liquor. I have lost my pension for life, besides the chance of going to Chelsea Hospital.

GUILTY .—Recommended to mercy by the prosecutors and Jury.

Confined Eight Months.

The following prisoners PLEADED GUILTY:—

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-655
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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(655) JOHN HERBERT(30) , to stealing a watch and chain from the person.— Confined Six Months. [Pleaded guilty:See original trial image.]

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-656
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

(656) ROBERT HENRY NORRIS (21) , to forging and uttering a request for the delivery of goods— Confined Twelve Months. [Pleaded guilty:See original trial image.]

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-657
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

(657) CHARLES ROBERTS (20) , to three indictments for forging receipts.— Confined Twelve Months. [Pleaded guilty:See original trial image.]

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-658
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

(658) THOMAS JAMES (48) , to four indictments for stealing silk and velvet, the property of Robert Greeven, his master.— Confined Eighteen Months. [Pleaded guilty:See original trial image.]

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-659
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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(659) JOHN WELCH** (18) , to stealing a handkerchief from the person of John Nicholl.— Confined Twelve Months. [Pleaded guilty:See original trial image.]

NEW COURT.—Monday, May 11th, 1863.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-660
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

660. HANNAH MCCARTHY (37), Was indicted for uttering counterfeit coin. MESSRS. COOKE and CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE JULER . I am a bootmaker, at 15, Endell-street, Long-acre—on the night of 13th April that woman (Chambers, another prisoner, see next case) came into my shop and asked for a bottle of kid-reviver, price sixpence—I served her—she gave me half a crown—I had no change, and I gave it to my apprentice, Whitfield, to get change, and before he came back the prisoner came in, and said to Chambers, "What are you staying so long for?"—I told her I had no change, and I had sent the boy out for some—she said, "Oh dear me, he is gone a long time"—she went out, and came in again—the boy then came back, and said, in the presence of both the women, "This is a bad one," and gave me the half-crown back bent—I gave it back to Chambers, and took the bottle out of her hand.

ALFRED WHITFIELD . I am apprentice to Mr. Jula—on 13th April I took a half-crown he gave me to a neighbour's to get change—the neighbour bent it, and gave it me back—I brought it back to my master's, and saw the two women there—my master gave the bad half-crown back to one of them, and they left together—I went out to watch them, and saw a third woman join them—these two then went to the Rose and Crown, round the

next turning—I pointed them out to Parker—I saw two half-crowns produced at Bow-street; neither of those was the one that I saw bent.

HARRY PARKER (Police-sergeant, F 4). The last witness pointed out these two women to me—I went into the Rose and Crown, and saw these two and another woman in front of the bar having something to drink—Chambers tried to conceal her right hand under her shawl when she saw me—I immediately got hold of her hand, and succeeded, after some trouble, in taking this bad half-crown from it, wrapped up in paper—I seized McCarthy at the same time—another constable came in, and they were both taken to the station—the third got away—when at the station, I asked Brown (Chambers) if she had any more money about her—she said three halfpence was all she had, and she gave it to me—the female searcher afterwards produced two other half-crowns.

HANNAH GREEN . I am female searcher at Bow-street station—on 13th April I searched Chambers, and between the lining of her dress I found a counterfeit half-crown—I also searched McCarthy, and found a sixpence, a fourpenny-piece, and a penny, good money—the next morning I searched her again, and in a little pocket in the gathers of her petticoat I found a bad half-crown—neither of those are bent.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin to the Mint—these three hall-crowns produced are bad; neither of them seem to have been bent.

Prisoner's Defence. When we were in the cell Chambers asked me if I would take the half-crown; she was very tipsy. I took it, and the woman found it in my pocket the next morning.


She was further charged with having been before convicted of uttering, in the name of Ann Rose, on 7th April, 1862. Sentence, One Year; to which she


11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-661
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment

Related Material

661. HANNAH McCARTHY was again indicted with ANN CHAMBERS, alias BROWN (37), for a like offence.

MESSRS. COOKE and CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.

The evidence of George Jula, Alfred Whitfield, Harry Parker, Hannah Green, and William Webster, as given in the last case, was read over to them, to which they assented.

Chambersr's Defence. I had been drinking on that day, and was very tipsy. I don't know how I came by the coin.

COURT to HARRT PARKER. Q. Was Chamber's tipsy? A. She had been drinking, but she knew what she was about—she resisted very much when I tried to get the coin from her hand.

Chambers received a good character.

McCARTHY— GUILTY .**— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

CHAMBERS— GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-662
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

662. MARGARET MACK (21), Was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. COOKE and CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES MERCER . I keep the Government Store public-house, at Westminster—I served the prisoner on 14th of last month, about 11 o'clock in the morning, with a pint of ale—she gave me a florin—I gave her change, and put it in the till—there was no other there—she went away—next morning my attention was called to that florin by my man—I gave it to him to get something, and he brought it back to me doubled up—I cannot pledge myself that it was the one I took from the prisoner—on the Thursday following, about 9 in the evening, I saw the prisoner again—she

asked for a glass of beer and a biscuit, and offered me a half-crown—I recognised her when she came in—I looked at the coin and found it was bad—I told her so—I cannot recollect that she said anything—I sent for a constable, and gave him the florin and the half-crown.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Did she not say, "I did not know it, a gentleman gave it me?" A. I believe she said something; I cannot say what—I am quite sure she is the same person who came in twice.

THOMAS WELSH . I am barman to Mr. Mercer—I was not there on the 14th—I opened the shop next morning, and was there till Mr. Mercer gave the florin to go and fetch some cheese—I west, and the party said it as bad, and sent for a policeman—if I had known it was bad I would not have offered it—I had money enough of my own, and I paid for the cheese.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you never take a bad florin? A. No—I won't say I have not taken a bad half-crown.

MICHAEL COSTELLO (Policeman, A 636). The prisoner was given into my custody by Mr. Mercer with this florin and half-crown (produced)—nothing was found on her.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This florin and half-crown are both bad.

Cross-examined. Q. The half-crown is a very good one, is it not? A. Yes—the florin is a very bad one.


11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-663
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

663. JOHN O'SULLIVAN (21), Was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. COOKE and CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.

EDWARD IZARD . I am a hosier in High Holborn—I was serving in my shop on the afternoon of 30th March, I think, when the prisoner came for a pair of socks, price sixpence, and gave me a bad half-crown—I sent for a constable, and gave him in charge—I marked a cross on the half-crown, and gave it to the constable.

CHARLES PLATER (Policeman, A 309). I went to Mr. Izard's, and received the prisoner in custody, and this counterfeit half-crown (produced)—he told me he was a stranger, and gave the name of John Merry at first, and said he was lodging at No. 9, Clare-street, Clare-market—I went there, and found it to be an unoccupied house—he then said he lived at Clement's-lane—I found that to be false—he was taken before the Magistrate at Bow-street, remanded till 6th April, and then discharged, that being the only case against him.

WILLIAM CREASE . My father keeps the White Hart Inn, at Hayes, in Middlesex—I serve in the bar—on the morning of 10th April I saw the prisoner come into our taproom—I served him with a pint of ale, and he gave me a bad half-crown—I thought it was very light, and, going up the passage, I bit it, and gave it to my father who was in the bar.

Prisoner. Q. Will you swear your father returned me the half-crown? A. Yes—I did not see him—I believe what my father told me.

PETER CREASE . I keep the White Hart, at Hayes—I received a bad half-crown from my son, and returned it to the prisoner, told him it was bad, and asked him if he had a better one in his pocket—he then gave me a good shilling for the ale he had, and I gave him change.

ANN LANGLEY . My husband keeps a beershop at Hayes—the prisoner came in there on 10th April, at twenty minutes to 12, and asked for a glass of ale, and gave me a half-crown—I gave him the change, keeping the half-crown in my hand, and he then called for a pennyworth of tobacco—my husband then took the half-crown out of my hand, and I saw it was a bad one—the prisoner was very violent, and broke the glass—he said he would

give my husband 5s. to let him go—he took up a piece of marble that laid there, and sent it right through the window—he was given into custody—he pave us 2s. 6d. afterwards, but we kept the half-crown as well.

Prisoner. Q. Did not you put the half-crown in the till? A. No—I don't know whether it was marked when you gave it me—you gave it we head upwards—I should not have known it was bad if Mr. Crease had not sent some one to watch you.

GEORGE LANGLEY . I saw the prisoner in my public-house, and took a half-crown out of my wife's hand—I found it was bad, and told the prisoner so—he said, "I did not know it was bad, let me look at it"—I said, No, I shall keep you here till an officer comes, and give you in charge for passing bad money—at that time I had bad a message from Mr. Crease—the prisoner then offered me 5s. to let him go—I said I would not, and he threw a piece of marble through the window—he afterwards kicked me in the thigh, and was very violent—I kept him there till the officer came, and gave him in charge with the bad half-crown.

JOSEPH CHEETHAM (Policeman, T 207). I took the prisoner into custody and received this bad half-crown (produced) from the last witness—I found on the prisoner four shillings, two sixpences, a fourpenny piece, and 4 1/2 d. in coppers, all good money.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These are both bad half-crowns.

Prisoner's Defence. I got the half-crown in some change for a half-sovereign; as for the violence, I beg for mercy; I was drunk at the time; I forgot to ask the policeman about that.

JAMES CHEETHAM (re-examined). He was not sober.


He was further charged with having been before convicted of uttering at this Court, in the name of John Connor on 7th July, 1862. Sentence, Six Months.

WILLIAM FERRETT (Policeman, A 590). I produce this certificate of the conviction of John Connor on 7th July, 1862—I was a witness on the trial—the prisoner is the man who was then tried and convicted in the name of John Connor.

Prisoner. Q. How do you know me? A. By your character and appearance.

GUILTY.— Four Years Penal Servitude.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-664
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

664. JOHN MORRIS (34), was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. COOKE and CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES WALKER . I am barman at the Eyre Arms, St. John's-wood—on 16th March, the prisoner came to the bar with another man, I saw him served with a pint of ale; the other man asked for it, and paid for it with a bad half-crown—I told them both it was bad, and the prisoner said, "This man will give another for it"—they did not produce another—they drank the ale together from the same glass—I gave them in charge with the half-crown.

Prisoner. Q. Did not you see another good half-crown paid? A. I did not; I heard the ale was paid for with a good half-crown, and the other man had the change.

WILLIAM TURNER (Policeman, S 242). The prisoner and another man were given into my custody at the Eyre Arms on 16th March—I produced this bad half-crown before the Magistrate on 19th March—I got it from the last witness, and he spoke about it in his evidence—the prisoner's were discharged in the usual way.

THOMAS SENIOR . I keep the King's Arm's in Long-Acre—on 17th April,

the prisoner came in and asked for a pint of porter, and gave me a bad half-crown—I told him it was bad—he said nothing, but threw down a good 5s. piece, and I gave him 4s. 10d. change—I sent out my barman for a constable—I asked two people to stand by the door to prevent the prisoner going out—he said, "I am not going to be kept here like this," and he asked me to give him the half-crown back, and I would not—a constable came, and I gave him into custody with the half-crown.

Prisoner. I was in drink, and I threw down the first that came to hand. Witness. He might have been a little the worse, I did not notice it at the time.

JAMES HAWKINS (Policeman, F 24). I received the prisoner in custody with this half-crown (produced)—on searching the prisoner I found 7s. 3d. in silver and coppers, a knife, and a Prince of Wales' medal—there was a fourpenny-piece amongst the money—he was rather intoxicated—he knew what he was about—he had been drinking.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These half-crowns are both bad.

Prisoner's Defence. I had been drinking all day, and paid with the first coin that came to hand; I did not know it was bad.


He was further charged with having been before convicted of uttering, on 8th July, 1861. Sentence, Eighteen Months, to which he

PLEADED GUILTY.**— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-665
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

665. ELLEN MARY ANN DIXON (32), was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. COOKE and CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM BURGESS I am barman at the Portman Arm's Edgeware-road—on 16th April, about 5 o'clock in the afternoon, the prisoner came in and asked for a glass of gin, which was 2 1/2 d.—she put down a shilling—I had my doubts of it, but being very busy I put it on the top and gave her change—she drank the gin and walked out of the door—I watched her—ours is a corner house, there is a door in each street—she went out of one door and came in again at the other, and asked for a glass of gin—I stopped in the bar and served her myself again—she gave me another bad shilling—I had found the other one was bad, they are of the same reign, both George the Third—I said to her, "I have you this time"—I went to take up the shilling and she took it up and left the place with it—I did not have it in my hand at all—I tried to take it, but she got it—I don't know whether it was bent—I slipped on my coat and went out after her—I met a constable, sent him one way, and I went another, and about a quarter of an hour afterwards we found her, and I gave her in charge, and gave the first shilling she gave me to the constable—I can swear to it.

Prisoner. Q. Did I not give you a good shilling, when you said it was bad? A. No; I gave you change for the first one—it was not three minutes from the time you came in first till you came in again.

MARGARET CHAPLAIN . I am female searcher at the John-street station—on 16th April, I found a counterfeit shilling in the prisoner's purse wrapped up in paper, the policeman has it—I also found two florins three sixpences, a fourpenny bit, and 14 1/2 d. in copper, good money.

HENRY BARHAM (Policeman, D 315). I took the prisoner—I produce a counterfeit shilling received from the searcher, date 1820, George III. and another one which I got from William Burgess, of the same date and reign.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These shillings are both bad and from the same mould.

Prisoner's Defence. I never gave but the one shilling, and was only in there once.


She was further charged with having been before convicted of uttering at this Court, on 22d September, 1862, and sentenced to Six Months, to which she

PLEADED GUILTY.— Three Years' Penal Servitude.

The following prisoners,

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-666
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

(666) ELIZABETH LOWDEN (16) RICHARD BROCK (19) WILLIAM WRIGHT (46), severally PLEADED GUILTY to unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin , and were sentenced to Nine Month's imprisonment each .

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-669
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

(669) ELLEN MARS (34), PLEADED GUILTY to unlawfully having counterfeit coin in her possession, with intent to utter the same, after a previous conviction . Four Years' Penal Servitude; and

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-670
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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(670) PETER HUDSON ** to uttering counterfeit coin, after a previous conviction . Ten Years' Penal Servitude. [Pleaded guilty:See original trial image.]

OLD COURT.—Tuesday, May 12th, 1863.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-671
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

671. ELIZABETH GRIFFIN (36), was indicted for wilful and corrupt perjury. MR. RIBTON conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY LINDON . I am one of the ushers of the Middlesex Sessions—I remember an appeal being tried there, in reference to a cat, at the January Session—I administered the oath to the prisoner, but do not remember what she stated.

FREDERICK HART . I live at Ashford, Middlesex, near the prisoner—I was summoned in October last, about a cat—I heard the prisoner give her evidence—she swore that on 15th October, about a quarter-past 10, she saw me on the Staines-road, which is called the Ashford-road—that I deliberately picked up a stone and threw it at a cat, and that the cat and stone both went into a ditch—that she went in-doors with a bundle, which she was laden with, and came out to me and said, "You brute; it is you who has done it; and you shall suffer for it"—I was in my garden on 15th October, digging and planting cabbage-plants, from half-past 8 to 9 o'clock, when I went in and never went out all day—I never was in the Ashford-road at all that day—(my attention was called to the date before the Magistrate on the 20th)—I did not throw any stone at any cat or dog, nor did I speak to the prisoner that day—there have been little disputes between me and her husband—I summoned him to the Bench.

Cross-examined by MR. HORRY. Q. Did a solicitor attend for you on the 20th? A. Yes, the solicitor who conducts the prosecution now—this summons came upon me quite unexpectedly—I received it on Friday night, the 17th—I did not consult my solicitor till Monday, the day of the hearing—he conducted my defence, and cross-examined the complainant—he complained to the Magistrate that I had had no time to get witnesses, and applied to have the case postponed, which Mr. Gibbons refused, without making any inquiry into what the witnesses were for—Mr. Mitcheson said that I ought to have time to get witnesses, and the solicitor who appeared for the prisoner made no objection to the application—I was in my garden all day—I was not digging all day—I did not name any of my witnesses to the Magistrate; I said that if time was allowed, I could get them, but they would not come unless they were subpoenaed—George Bennett was one of them—I did not name him—I did not know that he was my witness till Monday—I had not communicated to my solicitor the name of any witnesses—I had one witness in my thoughts; that was Mrs. Petty, who was at my

house on 15th, but no witness was named—I saw Mrs. Petty go in and out of my house twice while I was in the garden, digging—that was all I saw of her—I did not speak to her about it till after the hearing of the summons—I did not give in the name of Bennett, nor had I Bennett in my thoughts at the time of the hearing—I saw him the next day when I went to my work, and he told me that he had found the cat in the ditch—that was how I came to know that be found it—he described it, and said that he found it at twenty minutes or half-past 10, when he went after some hay, with some stones round it, and on it; that a woman was with him, and he said, "Oh, God! here is a cat with it's eye knocked out"—that he pot it in the woman's lap, who brought it down as far as Mr. Spence's gate, and then he drowned it because it kept mewing so, to put it out of it's misery—the ditch is by the side of the high-road, about five hundred yards from my cottage—I cannot go straight across from my garden-gate to the defendant's without trespassing—this is a correct plan (produced)—the ditch is pretty nearly two hundred feet from the bottom of my garden, which does not come up to the ditch—the ditch is one side of Griffin's cottage, not behind it, and not far from it—the defendant comes out of her cottage into the Staines-road, and when I come out I come into the Halliford-road in coming from her cottage she would come by the side of the ditch—my master, Mr. Spence, lives about four hundred yards from my house, by the road—I work for him every day as gardener—if I went the nearest way to him, I could pass the defendant's house, or I could go the other way round by the meadow and paddock—my wife has been ill a long time, and was not out of bed till 10 or 11 o'clock—none of Mr. Spence's family sent her anything that day—there was something sent, but not that day—I am certain I never went out and brought anything in that day—I did not meet Poor, the post-man, when I was carrying anything from Mr. Spence's that morning—I only saw him when I was in my garden—he passed close to my house—Mrs. Horley lives next door to me—there are two houses under one roof—I spoke to her that morning when she was out in her back place—I did not meet her on the high-road that day—I killed a pig, and Mr. Spence took part of it; the two legs—I pickled them for him on Friday, and on Tuesday I went and did them again—Mrs. Spence had a goose on the Tuesday, and she gave me the remains to take home to my wife, because she was not well—those are the circumstances which enable me to be certain—I only went there on Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday—I received the goose between 11 and 12 on the Tuesday—it was in a dish, covered with paper, and I certainly met the postman when I was with it—I asked him whether he had brought me any letter, as that saved me going round to my master's—I do not think I saw Mrs. Horley that morning—I know the defendant and her husband—I was not in the habit of seeing them every day—I know their goings on, and so on—we have never been bad friends; sometimes we had a little tiff, but nothing to speak of—I do not know that the defendant had two kittens—I applied to the Magistrate at Sunbury for a summons against her, which was refused—I afterwards applied at Westminster.

MR. RIBTON. Q. Is Mr. Binns your solicitor? A. Yes; I heard him make the application to postpone the case, to the Magistrates, Sir John Gibbons the chairman, and Mr. Mitcheson, and it was refused four or five different times—Mr. Mitcheson was in favour of postponing it—at the Quarter Sessions, in January, Mr. Binns was called and examined—I heard him state that he had applied to the Magistrate at Petty Sessions to postpone the

case, and was refused; and, therefore, he was unable to defend me properly—the place where the cat was found has been pointed out to me—that is about two hundred and twenty yards from the corner of the Halliford-road, where my cottage is.

SARAH HART . I am the wife of the last witness—I recollect the day this happened to the cat—it was Wednesday—I was ill that morning—my husband was at home all day, as far as I know—he was digging and planting, and running in and out of the house—I got up between 10 and 11, and he was then digging in the garden.

Cross-examined. Q. Had you been up and about the day before? A. Part of the day; the same as I was that day—I got up about the same time both days—I had been unwell for some time—I got up much about the same time on the Thursday—Mr. Hart did not go to Mr. Spence's on the Wednesday, that I am aware of—I received no delicacy of any kind from Mr. Spence's on the Wednesday—I am quite sure of that, because I received something the day before—that was part of a goose—I do not remember when I was first spoken to about that, or whether it was after the hearing of the summons against my husband—it was not my husband's duty to go to Mr. Spence's every day—he went when Mr. Spence required him—he did not go there on Wednesday morning after I was up—I cannot see the garden from my bed-room window.

HARRIET PETTY . I live at Sunbury—I recollect the day the cat was found in the ditch at Ashford—I was at Hart's that morning from twenty minutes to a quarter to 10, and saw Hart digging in his garden—I was there about ten minutes—I returned in about an hour, and he was still digging in the same place.

GEORGE BENNETT . I work at Ashford—I found the oat in the ditch between 10 and 11 o'clock, and there were half a dozen stones around and on it; a woman was coming by, and I said, "Oh, Good God I here is a cat **—she said" Is it dead?—I said, "No; it has got it's eye cut out"—I did not see that its tongue was slit open, or that it's jaw was broken; I must have seen it, if it had been, when I took it up to look at it's eye—I drowned it—this is where I found it (pointing to the plan) about one hundred and seventy-five yards from Griffin's—I did not see the defendant till about half-past 2; she then said, "Have you drowned a cat?"—I said, "Tea; it had it's eye cut out"—she said, "Did you see any one do it!"—I said, "No"—she said, "Then old Pimp has done it"—Hart goes by that nick-name—just as she was going away I said, "Did you see him do it?"—she said, "That does not matter; be has done it, and he shall suffer for it."

Cross-examined. Q. How soon did you drown the cat after you saw it? A. Between five and ten minutes, I had to fetch the water—I did not open it's mouth, or examine it very closely—if a person in Hart's garden had thrown a stone at the cat it could not have dropped where I found it, and there were six stones on it—a person must have been in the high-road to have knocked the oat down in that ditch—the prisoner did not say, u Did you see who did it; or did you see him do it t"—she said, "Did you see any one do it 9"—it is over six months since I was first asked to go before the Magistrate—I was examined at the Quarter Sessions at Westminster—I do not recollect how long before that I was spoken to—I have not received a halfpenny on account of my attendance as a witness—I have had no communication with Hart on the subject of payment.

Witnesses for the Defence.

SARAH HORLKT . I am married, and live next door to Mr. Hart—I remember the kitten being killed—it was on Wednesday, 15th October—I

was coming down the Staines road that morning from Feltham station between 11 and 12 o'clock, and saw Hart at the comer of the road half-way from Mr. Griffin's house and the corner of the Halliford-road—he had a large dish in his hand, with a cloth over it—he was going home, following me—he stopped and talked" to the postman, whom I met at the corner of the Halliford-road, and then followed me down home—I never missed him—I know it was 15th October, because I had to go to Feltham station to receive a parcel and some money.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. When were yon first asked whether you had seen Hart in the road? A. Mrs. Griffin asked me on the Wednesday afternoon, the very day the kitten was killed—she came and told me about her cat—I am sure she asked me if I had seen Hart, and I told her I had seen him carrying a large dish, with a cloth over it—she was crying about her cat, and said that Hart had done it.

COURT. Q. What was the first thing she said? A. "Have you heard about Hart killing my cat?"—I said, "No, Mrs. Griffin, I have not"—she told me that it was found in a ditch, but I do not know what ditch—I cannot recollect anything more she said, it is so long ago, and I thought it was all nonsense—I do not know that she asked me whether I had seen Hart in the road, but I told her I had met Hart in the road.

MR. RIBTON. Q. When did you mention anything about this since? A. I mentioned it to many people—I was going to receive money at the Feltham station for a nurse-child which I have—I did not sign a receipt, as the money was in a little hamper with the child's things, and a little bit of a note to the child, which has been destroyed long ago—I receive the money once a quarter, but that was the first time, as I had only had the child a quarter—it was on that day that I met Hart with the dish—I did not speak to him, because we were not friends, we had not spoken for a long time—we had not quarrelled, but we did not speak.

JAMES POOR . I am postman for the neighbourhood round Sunbury—I remember meeting Hart just at the cross-road, coming from Feltham, about ten yards from the gravel-pit, ten yards down the Halliford-road—he was carrying a dish, with a cloth on it—I also met Mrs. Horley twice—she was going towards home—Hart was about 150 yards from his cottage—he was just turning out of the Staines-road, behind Mrs. Horley—I cannot say whether this was on the 15th, or whether Mrs. Horley was carrying anything.

COURT to HART. Q. Do yon know Mrs. Horley? A. Yes—I do not recollect seeing her on the 15th with a hamper—it was on Tuesday I met the postman—he was nearly at the corner—I was going towards my home—I had the dish with the cloth over it, and part of a goose in" it—I did not notice anybody further ahead at the time—I spoke to the postman, and asked him if he had got any letters.

COURT to JAMES POOR. Q. What did Hart say to you? A. He said, "Good morning," and stood talking—he did not ask me about letters—I think he was talking about the weather as much as anything.

GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-672
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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672. JOHN WILLIAMS (50) , Robbery on Vincent Milando, and stealing from his person a watch, his property.

MR. LILLEY conducted the Prosecution.

VINCENT MILANDO (Through an interpreter.) I live at 22, Church-street, Sohosquare—on the morning of 25th April I was with some friends in Dean-street,

Soho-square, and saw the prisoner with six or seven others—I was surprised and insulted all at once, and then they assaulted me—I cannot say that I saw the prisoner do anything—they surrounded me, and afterwards knocked me down by a blow on my eye, and then snatched my watch from me and broke the chain—while on the ground I was kicked several times, and beaten with some iron thing which they had on their knuckles—I called, "Police," and they ran away—I saw the prisoner arrested, but I cannot tell that he did anything—I have not seen my watch since—it was silver, and had two keys to it—this (produced) is my chain—the prisoner tried to strike me, but there were too many together, and I cannot say that he did, as there was not time enough before the policeman was called—I could see nobody when I was on the ground, because I very nearly lost my senses—there was a lamp near, which threw a light on the men—the prisoner was taken on the spot.

Prisoner. Q. Were you drunk or sober? A. Sober—I had worked all day, and had nothing to drink—I did not notice you at the corner of the street before the attack, nor was I throwing my hands about—I never tried to strike anybody—I never saw you before—you said nothing to me—you took no part in taking my watch.

MR. LILLEY. Q. Was the prisoner in company with the others? A. Yes.

JOSEPH BECONCHL (Through an interpreter). I was with Milando on 23rd April, at the corner of Dean-street, Soho—we were insulted by six or seven individuals, and then they began to assault us, and attacked us with irons on their hands—I saw the prisoner among them, but did not see him take any part in the assault—he was there at the beginning—I did not see him do anything, or hear him speak.

NICOLAS PINELLI . (Through an interpreter). I was with the last two witnesses—some people, among whom was the prisoner, insulted us, and then assaulted us—the prisoner took no part in the assault, but he was insinuating the others to do it—he said, "Go on, go on"—I understand English better than I can speak it—one of them knocked me on the head behind and knocked me down, and gave me a blow on my breast and tried to take my chain, but I sent him backwards with a kick—the prisoner was only two. steps off when Milando was attacked—I called "Police," and they ran away—the prisoner followed the others—the policeman followed him more than the others and took him—I never lost sight of him.

JOSEPH PESSINO . I can speak English—I live at 10, Church-street—on the morning in question I heard a noise, opened my window, and saw a man down on the ground, and four or five people over him, kicking and beating him—I said, "Oh, you cowards to strike a man on the floor," and they ran away—my mistress recognised the man as Milando, and I then went down—the prisoner is one of those who ran away—I called out "Stop thief,' and kept my eye on him all the time, and saw him stopped by the police.

Prisoner. Q. Did you see me insult him, or take any part in the affair? A. No; I only saw you run away.

JOHN HANBRIDGE . (Policeman 7210). On Saturday morning, 25th April, I was on duty in Crown-street, Soho, and heard cries of "Stop thief"—I went towards the spot, and saw the prisoner running away, and Pessino following him as hard as he could—I ran after him, and when I was within about six paces of him he stopped of his own accord and said, "What is it?"—Pessino said that he had assaulted and robbed a man of his watch—he persisted in saying that he was innocent, and that we were leading him like a sheep

to the slaughter—the inspector at the station asked his address—he refused it but said that his name was John Williams—I was gaining on him very fast when he stopped.

Prisoner. Q. Was it twenty yards from the place when you first pursued me to the place where I stopped? A. Fifty or sixty yards—I believe you saw me when you were running—I do not think you stopped as soon as you saw me, but you looked round, and then stopped—the others had all gone before I came up.

Prisoner's Defence. He followed me, and the others ran away. When I saw that I Was marked I escaped.


11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-673
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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673. ROBERT MURPHY (29) , (a soldier), Robbery, with other persons, on Patrick Jully, and stealing from his person 7l. of his money.

MR. BESLEY conducted the Prosecution.

PATRICK JULLY . I am a superannuated officer of the Civil Service, and have a pension—I live at Southampton—on 15th April, about 5 o'clock, I went into the Silver Cross, Charing-cross, to have a glass of ale—I was tired, and a friend or two had promised to meet me there—I waited, and the prisoner and four other soldiers were standing close to me—they said, "We are poor soldier chaps, and have not much money to spare; you do not mind giving us a treat," and I stood several treats—I do not mind treating soldiers, but I drank very little—I spent about a crown—they kept very close to me—I took out some sovereigns, and from my right-hand pocket, looking for some silver, and the prisoner turned round to the left side, threw his left arm round my neck, with his thumb in my throat, his head against me, and put his right hand in my trousers' pocket, where my money was—the other four closed up, so that I could not get away—he took his hand out, and passed it round to the hands of the others—I took him by the collar and said, "You ruffian, you have robbed me"—there was a row—we had a scuffle, and he broke away and ran out immediately—I ran after him, kept him in sight, and caught him under the arches of the Horse Guards—he said, "Let me go, Sir, and I will give you all the money I have about me"—I said, "You have got the wrong man this time; you will go with me, but you will not go from me"—there was a struggle, and he broke away again through the archway into the parade-ground—I am sorry to say that I have lost an arm, or I would have kept him firm—I thought it was a duty not to allow a man to rob me with Her Majesty's uniform on.

Cross-examined by MR. LEWIS. Q. Were you in Court during the opening? A. No—I am aware that I have thought of a good many things since I was before the Magistrate; I only wish the depositions were taken more clearly and perfectly, and then there would not be occasion for a second question—I have not been in a public-house to-day—my deposition was read over to me before I signed it—I went into the public-house close upon 5 o'clock, and not as early as half-past 3 or 4 o'clock—this is my signature to my deposition—I might have called at the public-house before I went into the pay office—I did not go in to have a glass of ale early, and then went to draw my money, and then went to the public-house again—that is a very different thing.

MR. LEWIS. Q. When I asked you what time you went into the public-house you said about 5 o'clock? A. Yes; I thought you meant when the robbery happened—the prisoner and the soldiers were not there at half-past 3; they did not appear till 6—I only had a glass of bitter ale, and then went over to the pay-office, and received 17l. 9d.—I then went back to

the same public-house, and remained there three or four hours treating the soldiers—I did not take out the whole of the money, I took out 10l.; I had 5l. in another pocket, and 2l. in another—the soldiers all saw the money when I was looking for a shilling to pay for the beer—the prisoner was there then—I paid for the first lot of beer about a quarter past 5—I did not say that the soldiers came in at 6; I said between 5 and 6.

COURT. Q. Whatever the time was, was the prisoner present when you pulled out the sovereigns? A. Yes; I only pulled them out several times—I paid as I went on.

MR. LEWIS. Q. Did you pay the first time with a shilling, or get change for a half-sovereign? A. I got change for a sovereign, and the next time I wanted to pay I took out the whole 10l.—I paid three, four, or five times—I did not drink; I only tasted, and did not take above a wine-glass full at a time—the total that I drank might make a pint—I did not go from there to Nat Langham's, or any other public-house—I remained at the Silver Cross from 5 o'clock till the robbery took place, close upon half-past 9—I had 10l. in my pocket then—I would not risk saying I had been robbed of too much; I thought it might invalidate my testimony, so I swear to 7l. 10s. only—I did not tell the soldiers that the corporal had robbed me—I accused no soldier before I accused the prisoner—I did not go in a cab to Nat Langham's or any public-house and treat soldiers and give them money—I did not ask the prisoner if he had leave of absence, and tell him he could go home with me—I live eighty miles away.

MR. BESLEY . Q. From the time the thumb was put to your neck, to the time the prisoner was given in custody, how much time elapsed? A. Only a minute or two—I never lost sight of him—there is no truth in the insinuation that I charged anybody else.

HENRY COURTNEY (Policeman, A 616). On 15th April, about a quarter to 10 o'clock, I was on duty in Trafalgar-square, near the fountains, and saw the prosecutor scuffling with some one—there was a large crowd round them—just as I got up the soldier broke away, and ran down to the Horse Guards, where the prosecutor caught him again, and had another scuffle—just as I got up the soldier broke away again, and bolted through the Horse Guards into the Parade—I spoke to the prosecutor, and the prisoner ran on for a yard or two, and then stopped, and was talking to another soldier of the same regiment—the prosecutor went up to him, and said, "This is the man who has robbed me"—both the soldiers said that they would give him a thrashing if he did not go back—the other soldier said, "Here, Bob, you had better be off to barracks before you get yourself into a bother"—I then took the prisoner to the station—I had not taken hold of him before that—he went quietly; but when he got there he got out of my arms, and struck the prosecutor a severe blow in the eye, which caused it to be black for a fortnight—the charge of robbing the prosecutor of 10l. was read over to him; he made no reply—3s. were found on him, and 8d. in copper—he did not hear him say anything about Nat Langham's or a cab, or the prosecutor's charging a corporal—the prosecutor was sober; the prisoner was rather the worse for drink.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you mean to swear that? A. He was; he was not quite sober—I could tell that he had been drinking.

COURT. Q. You said before the Magistrate, "The prosecutor and prisoner were both sober?" A. Well, he was the worse for liquor, but he knew what he was about—he was not drunk.

The prisoner received a good character. NOT GUILTY .

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-674
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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674. MARY WESTON (25) , Stealing a watch, value 14l. the property of Alfred Jones Wall.

MR. ROWDEN conducted the Prosecution.

ALFRED JONES WALL . I am a hosier—I was staying at 32, Aldgate High-street—I was in Fenchurch on a Sunday evening, about half-past 9, and met the prisoner—she said, "Good night"—I said, "Good night," and passed on—she followed me, and asked me to treat her to a glass of ale, and took hold of my arm—I said that I would, and we crossed into Billiter-street, where I stood talking to her, and noticed that she was messing about with my watch-chain—I said, "Do not do that"—I pot my hand to my side, and my watch was there—she said, "All right"—I stood talking to her a couple of minutes, and was going to say, "Good night"—I put my hand to my pocket, and missed my watch—I said, "You hare got my watch"—she said, "I have not"—I seized her, and called "Police"—she said, "Do not make such a noise and I will give it to you"—at that moment a man ran round Billiter-street, rushed right behind her close to her, but did not seem to stop a moment—when he was out of sight, by the market, she said, "Now, you may take me to the station and search me"—my chain was broken off at the bow—my watch was worth 14l.

Prisoner. Q. You spoke to me first? A. I did not.

FREDERICK FLEETWOOD (City-policeman, 552). On the evening of 18th April I was on duty in Fenchurch-street, heard a cry of police, went into Billiter-square, and saw the prosecutor holding the prisoner, and four or five people round—he gave her in custody for stealing his gold watch—I took her to the station—she was searched, and only a locket and a key found on her—she denied the charge.

Prisoner's Defence. He told me he had been to Richmond that day, and he might have lost it there; it was a fireman who went past me.

FREDERICK FLEETWOOD (re-examined). A fireman came to the station and said that he went past her, but took no notice of her.

ALFRED JONES WALL (re-examined). I saw the fireman; he was not the same person.

GUILTY .**— Confined Twelve Months.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-675
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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675. GEORGE BISHOP (25) , Robbery with a man unknown, on Thomas Meacock, and stealing part of a watch-chain, his property.

MR. BESLEY conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS MEACOCK . I am a coal merchant of 21, Denton-street, Somerstown—on 23d April I was walking arm in arm with my son-in-law, Mr. Alton, at twenty minutes past 12 at night—the prisoner and another man followed us, and suddenly turned and faced us—one knocked me down, and the other, I believe, made a grab at my watch chain, and gave me a black eye—they took away a portion of my chain, and left a portion on the watch, which was left in my pocket—I was down, and did not see them run away—I was either kicked, or injured by a fall on the kerb—one of the glasses went out of my spectacles from the blow—I feel pain in my hip to this day—I was rendered insensible—this was only six or seven yards from my house, and I got in as soon as I could.

Cross-examined by MR. LANGFORD. Q. Can you swear to the prisoner? A. Certainly not—we had had two or three half-quarterns of gin, that was all—I was certainly not intoxicated; I knew perfectly well what was happening.

THOS. HENRT ALTON . I am a commercial traveller, of 103, York-street, Manchester—Mr. Meacock is my father-in-law—on 23d April a little after

12 o'clock, I was walking with him, and when about 150 yards from home, two men set upon as from behind, made a blow at my father-in-law, and knocked him down—I got hold of one by the coat or waistcoat, and received a blow on the back of the neck, and was knocked down—a policeman came up as I was getting up—I could swear to both the men—they ran away, and I took my father-in-law by the arm, and led him home, thinking he was badly hurt—it was rather a dark night—the nearest lamp was perhaps ten yards off, and I could see the prisoner's features when he assaulted my father-in-law; but it was the other man that knocked him down.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you often in London? A. Once a month—my attention was drawn to the man holding my father-in-law—he was a redfaced man—this happened very suddenly—I was perfectly sober—we had had two or three drops of gin, and I had had a glass of beer at Sheffield and one at Peterborough—I had come up that night—I arrived at half-past 8, and my father-in-law met me at the station.

WILLIAM MACMATH (Policeman, S 343). I was on duty in St. Pancras-road between 12 and 1 o'clock, and saw a man run down Denton-street—he looked up and down the old road—I followed him, and when I got within ten yards of him he cried out, "Look out"—at that time I saw the prisoner and another man leaning over something in the street—the prisoner ran by me down Denton-street—I spoke to the prosecutor, and, from what he told me, I pursued the prisoner, but turned back, went through Weston-street, and caught him at the top of Weston-street—I told him I wanted him for knocking an old gentleman down, and stealing his watch—he said, "So help me God, I have not been in Weston-street or Denton-street at all"—I had not mentioned Denton-street—he then threw something away—I took him to the station, and sent for the prosecutor, who charged him—I then searched with Brown to find what the prisoner threw away, but could not—it was found next morning, but not in my presence—it was thrown in the centre of the carriage-way—I noticed the spot, and pointed it out to Brown.

Cross-examined. Q. Is Weston-street at the top of Denton-street? A. They are not much apart—there is a public-house close by—I did not see the prisoner in that public-house in the course of the evening—I stopped him twenty yards from it, but did not see him come out—I consider that the two gentlemen had been drinking.

MR. BESLEY. Q. Have you any doubt the prisoner is the man who was in Denton-street? A. I have not the smallest doubt of him—I have known him nine years.

SAMUEL BROWN (Policeman, S 210). I searched at the spot pointed out by MacMath—I went again next morning and found the portion of a chain in Brewer-street, in the direction MacMath told me; and a book and a spectacleglass in Denton-street, about 150 yards from Mr. Meacocks.


He was further charged with having been before convicted at Clerkenwell, of stealing a purse and 6s.; to which he


Six Years' Penal Servitude.

The following prisoners PLEADED GUILTY:—

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-676
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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(676) JOHN MONTAGUE (20) , to stealing a purse and money from the person.— Confined Six Months. [Pleaded guilty:See original trial image.]

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-677
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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(677) EMILE COLLIN (28) , to stealing a portmanteau and contents, value 25l. the property of Francis Marchant, in his dwelling-house; also a portmanteau and other articles, value 12l. the property of J. C. Downing; and a portmanteau and other articles, value 3l. the property of James Lorkin.— Six Years' Penal Servitude. [Pleaded guilty:See original trial image.]

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-678
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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(678) LUCY BUCKSTONE (18) , to stealing a pair of sheets, the property of Elizabeth Nutley, her mistress. There were also two indictments; to which the pleaded

NOT GUILTY .— Judgment Respited .

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-679
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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(679) CHARLES JAMES CLARE (27) , to feloniously forging and uttering a post-office order for 5l.; also a post-office order for 2l. 2s. 6d.; also a post-office order for 4l. 8s. 9d. with intent to defraud; also to forging and uttering two warrants for 10l. and 4l. 18s. 4d. — Six Years' Penal Servitude. [Pleaded guilty:See original trial image.]

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-680
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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(680) HERBERT DAWSON SLADE (31) , to forging and uttering a Bill of Exchange, with intent to defraud.— Six Years' Penal Servitude . There were two other indictments against him for like offences. [Pleaded guilty:See original trial image.]

NEW COURT.—Tuesday, May 12th, 1863.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-681
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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681. MARIA PRICE (33), was indicted for unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin. MR. CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE PETTIFER . I am a cheesemonger, at College-street, Camden-town—on 25th March about a quarter before 1, the prisoner came to my shop and purchased five eggs, value threepence, and gave me a bad shilling—I bent it and gave it her back, told her it was bad, and asked her to give me another, which she did—she had several other pieces of money in her purse—she then went away.

WILLIAM SAVAGE . I am an oilman in the Hampstead-road—on 25th March I served the prisoner with half-a-pound of soap and some washing-powder, which came to 2 3/4d., she paid me with a shilling—I gave her 9 1/2 d. change, and she left—I put the shilling in the till—there was no other there—shortly after Mr. Nicholl came in and said something to me, in consequence of which I went to the till, looked at the shilling I had taken, and found it was a bad one—I and Mr. Nicholl then went in pursuit of the prisoner—I followed her some distance, in company with two men, they left her, and she went into another shop, when she came out I stopped her, and gave her into custody—my shop must be three-quarters of a mile from Mr. Pettifer's.

COURT. Q. Was there any other money in the till? A. Yes; some twoshilling pieces, half-crowns, sixpences, and fourpenny-pieces, but only that one shilling.

WILLIAM NICKOLS . I am a butcher in Great College-street—I was in my shop on 25th March, and observed the prisoner go by with two men—I followed them, and she went into Mr. Pettifer's shop—I sent my man in to see what she had paid—I waited till she came out and then followed her on—the men were standing about half a dozen doors up the street, and she joined them—they went on together, and just before she went into Mr. Savage's shop, I saw the men pass something to her—I waited till she came out, and then went in and made a communication to Mr. Savage, in consequence of which he looked in the till and found a bad shilling—I looked over the counter into the till—there was no other shilling—we then went after the prisoner and gave her into custody.

SAMUEL HITCHAM (Policeman, S 320). I took the prisoner into custody—I told, her she was charged with passing a bad shilling to Mr. Savage—she said, "I am very sorry"—I asked her what she did with the bent shilling—she made no reply—she refused to give her address—she was searched at the station, and five eggs found upon her; no money, or soap, or washing-powder—I received this shilling (produced) from Mr. Savage.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This shilling is a bad one. Prisoner's Defence. I did not know it was bad. I had other money in my pocket.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-682
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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682. ELIZA MULLINS (17), was indicted for a like offence.

MR. CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN SMART . I am assistant to Mr. Maldon, a chemist, at Brompton—some day early in March, about 6 or 7 in the evening, the prisoner came for a packet of violet powder, and a pot of pomatum—she gave me in payment a bad five—shilling piece—I told her it was bad, and asked her where she came from—she gave some name and address in Oxford-street—she then took the crown-piece back, paid me in good money, and went away.

GEORGE BRIGGS HARDY . I keep a chemist's shop at Alexander—place, Brompton, about 150 yards from Mr. Maldon's—one evening in March, a little after 7, the prisoner came in and asked for a packet of violet powder and a pot of pomatum, and gave me in payment a bad five-shilling piece—I returned it to her and cautioned her—she said she lived somewhere in Newman-street, Oxford street, and that her mistress had sent her for the articles—she paid me with good money and left—I sent my boy to watch her, not to give her in custody—the five-shilling piece was shown to me the same evening by a policeman—this is it (produced)—it is the same as I bent.

JAMES BARBER (Policeman, B 16). About half—past 7, on the evening of 13th March, the last witness's boy pointed out the prisoner to me—I stopped her, and asked her to go back to the station—she said nothing—on the way to the station, I said, "I suppose you know what I want you for?"—I was in uniform and I cautioned her—she said, "I suppose it is about the bad fiveshilling piece that I had"—at the station she gave me the five—which was identified by the last witness—on searching a small bag that she carried, I found 3 1/2 d in copper, a pot of pomatum, and a packet of violet powder with Mr. Maldon's name upon them—no one came to charge her, and she was allowed to go.

EDWIN IZARD. I keep a hosier's shop in Holborn—on 28th March, I think, the prisoner came in and purchased a pair of stockings, price is 0 1/2 d. and gave me a bad five-shilling piece—I told her it was bad, and asked her where she lived—she said first she lived in Canon-street—I said, "Canon-street, where?"—she said, "Canon-street, Oxford-street"—I got the directory, and there was no Canon—street, Oxford—street—she then mentioned two or three other places—in consequence of her manner, I sent for a constable, marked the five—shilling piece, and gave it to him—this is it (produced).

CHARLES NEOBARD (Policeman, E 74). The prisoner was given into my custody by Mr. Izard, with this crown-piece—I asked the prisoner her address, and she said 15, Newman—street and also 16, and 19, Newman—street—I went to all three and she did not live there—I could not learn anything about her—at the police court she gave her address, 15, Skinner street, Bishopsgate-street—I made inquiries there, but could not learn about her—she was searched, and a half—crown, a two—shilling piece, a shilling, sixpence, a fourpenny—piece, a threepenny-piece, and 3d. in coppere, all good money found on her.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . The two crown—pieces are both bad.

GUILTY .— Judgment Respited.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-683
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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683. JOSIAH SHEEN (28), was indicted for a like offence. MESSRS. COOKE and CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.

EMMA ROWLEY . My husband keeps a tobacconist's shop, at 1, Upper park—place—one Sunday early in April, the prisoner came in and asked for half an ounce of birdseye—he gave me half a crown, and I gave him 2s. 4d. change, and put the half—crown in the till—there was no other there—the prisoner then went away—about an hour afterwards, my husband went to the till, took out the half—crown, and showed it to me—on 14th April the prisoner came again, asked for a pennyworth of birdseye, and offered me a two-shilling piece—I saw it was bad and told him so—my husband then took it out of my hand—the prisoner wished it to be returned to him, and not to be defaced, as he should be the loser, for he had just taken it of his governor—my husband would not give it him, and he tried to take it—he paid me for the tobacco with good money—he was then given into custody.

Prisoner. Q. On the Sunday previous, when you say I came into your shop, how was I dressed? A. Respectably dressed—I did not notice what you had on—decidedly not, the same as you have on now—you are dressed now as you were the second time, but without a coat.

WILLIAM ROWLEY . On 14th April I saw the prisoner served by my wife—I saw her examining a coin, and she said it looked queer—she went to try it in the detector, and I saw the prisoner reach his hand over to get it away from her—I immediately went and took the florin from my wife—I had been looking for the prisoner—I had seen him in my shop about a week before—on a Sunday evening about dusk, when a half—crown was passed to my wife—I kept that by me—when I took the florin from my wife, I put it in my pocket, and told the prisoner I should keep it—he said I was not to do that for he should be the loser, his governor had just given it to him—I said, "Send the governor up to me then"—he said, "I shall," and left the shop—I followed him and gave him into custody, and gave the policeman the half-crown and the florin.

Prisoner. Q. Had I hat or a cap on when I came on the Sunday previous? A. I cannot swear which, I was looking through the glass partition at the time—I saw your face—I saw you once at the Gloucester Arms, from the time I suspected you.

COURT. Q. After the Sunday, and before the two—shilling piece was offered? A. Yes—it was in the Gloucester I gave him in custody.

Prisoner. Q. Had I not plenty of time to go away? A. Yes; I was quite surprised when I saw you dressed so differently—you came into my shop like a cab—washer, and in five minutes afterwards you were at the Gloucester Arms dressed quite different, with clean boots, a pipe in your mouth, and a coat on—had I not looked at you and pointed you out, I should hardly have known you.

MR. COOKS. Q. Have you any doubt about him now? A. Not the slightest.

GEORGE COLTHURST . I am a butcher, at 35, Upper Park-street—about three weeks before he was given into custody the prisoner came into my shop and purchased some meat which came to 4d., and gave me a bad two—shilling piece—I bent it and told him it was bad—he said he knew where he had taken it, for he had come direct from the Boston Arms, and it was there—he told me not to bend it much—I gave it him back—he paid me in good money and left.

Prisoner. Q. Did not I often come Into your shop? A. Not very often—I have only seen you once or twice before, I think—I knew you by sight.

JOHN CASTLB (Policeman, D 278). I took the prisoner into custody—I produce a half—crown and florin given to me by Mr. Rowley—I searched the

prisoner at the station, and found two shillings, a sixpence, and fourpenny-worth of coppers, good money.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These coins are both bad.

Prisoner's Defence. I had plenty of time to get away. I have worked at the mews for years, and never had a stain on my character before.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-684
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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684. ELIZABETH NEAL (26) , Unlawfully having in her possession counterfeit coin with intent to utter it.

MESSRS. COOKS and CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS WARD (Policeman, K 150). On 22d April I was on duty in Bonner's-row, Victoria-park, and heard a cry of "Police!" in a man's voice—in consequence of which I went to the front door of No. 5—it was opened by some one inside—I went in and met the prisoner's husband coming downstairs with the prisoner, and this box and six shillings—he handed me the box and the six shillings, and said that she was in the act of passing it to the landlady, but he prevented her, and told me to take her to the station, and he would come down and charge her—this is the box (produced)—it contained 100 shillings, ten half-crowns, and thirteen florins, all in separate packets, wrapped up in tissue paper, and sealed—they are all counterfeit—I took her to the station—the prisoner said her husband had brought it there for a plant to put her away, and that he bought 10s. worth for 1s. 6d.—I took the husband as well—he was afterwards discharged by the Magistrate—10s. 6d. in good money was found on the prisoner.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. And no bad money? A. No; she said, "My husband buys counterfeit coin"—she did not tell me he had been convicted several times—he has had eighteen mouths for possessing counterfeit coin—I only know of that one conviction—that was in the name of Matthews—he was convicted here and sent to prison at Bedford gaol—the prisoner did not tell me she had left him because be dealt in this coin—I went with the sergeant and searched the house in Wharf—road, Shoreditch, the next morning, and we also went to Wolverley-street—we found two counterfeit half-crowns there in a paper box—that was after the woman was taken.

MR. COOKE. Q. Where were these two half-crowns found? A. In Wolverley-street, where the goods were taken to—there was a dispute between, the prisoner and her husband—I saw the goods moved from 5, Bonner's-row to Wolverley-street—I found the two bad half—crowns in a box which I saw taken from the van on the Thursday—I believe the prisoner's husband had the eighteen months on the 19th February, 1861.

MART ANN DRING . I live at 5, Bonner's-row—one Monday in April the prisoner came and took apartments at my house—she came in on Tuesday between 4 and 5 o'clock—her goods were brought the same evening—her daughter came with her—on the Wednesday, between 4 and 5, her husband came with two other men—they gave a loud knock at the door and made their way up stairs—they had a policeman at the door—the husband said, "This is my wife"—she called for her bonnet and shawl—I took it to her—she said something, I could not hear what—her husband was too quick—I said, "I will have nothing at all to do with you." and went down stairs—the husband put his hand to her hand, but what it was I could not say—the policeman took the prisoner away, and the husband stopped and took the furniture away in a van.

Cross-examined. Q. He was not taken into custody at your place? A. No; they took him after he took the furniture away.

JOSEPH PALMER . I am in the employ of Mr. Millburn, a carman—on Wednesday, 15th April, I think, I removed the prisoner's goods from Wharf-road, Shoreditch, to Stratford—I don't know the name of the street—on the next Wednesday the prisoner's husband came and asked me where she bad removed to—I was present when the disturbance took place at Bonner's-row—I heard him then speak of her as his wife, and she did not deny that—he had no box during the time I was with him, from 11 o'clock in the morning till between 4 and 5 in the evening, when we got to 5, Bonner's row—before we went in we spoke to a constable, in case she should make any disturbance—we went up stairs, and the husband laid, "This is my wife and these are my things," and ordered us to take the furniture out—the prisoner then went to the cupboard and brought out this box, and her husband immediately caught hold of her and took it away from her, and caught hold of her other wrist and dragged her down stairs, and gave her in custody to the policeman—I also saw a packet in her hand at the bottom of the stair-case, which she wanted to pass to the landlady, and the said, "I will have nothing at all to do with it"—her husband took the packet out of her hand and gave it to the policeman.

Cross-examined. Q. Was the box opened before it was given to the policeman? A. No; the husband said, "Take this box, policeman"—I did not hear him say there was bad money in it—we were all of a bustle—we afterwards moved all the furniture——the husband came to me on the Tuesday as he came out of prison on the Monday.

COURT. Q. Were they quarrelling when the goods were being moved? A. Yes; she resisted a little when he tried to take the box.

CHARLES MILBOURN . I am a carman in Boston-street, Hackney—the prisoner engaged my van on 15th—I did not see the prisoner at any time—I saw the man who called himself her husband on the Monday and Tuesday, and was in his company on Wednesday, from 11 till about 5, when we—got to Bonner's-place—he had not this box with him all that time—I assisted in moving the goods by his direction.

SAMUEL MADDISON (Policeman, K 13). I went to Wolverley-street with the other policeman on the 22d and again on the 23d, and on that day I found two counterfeit half-crowns wrapped up in pieces of paper at the bottom of a large chest—before the Magistrate, the man said he had only come out of prison on the Monday previous, and therefore he could not have possession of it—she said he brought the money to her on purpose to get her in prison.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you inquired whether there are not several convictions against this man? A. Yes; I am told that he has been convicted—I believe he has been convicted of uttering base money in several different names.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These two half-crowns are bad and from the same mould—they are very well executed—all the other coins produced are bad—I have taken two half-crowns from the box, they are from the same mould as the other two.

COURT to THOMAS WARD. Q. When you got this box, was it locked? A. No; the lid was down, but it is without a lock.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Did not the msn say when he gave it to you, "Here is a box with some bad money in it? A. He said that at the time he said, "Take her to the station, and I will charge her"—the prisoner made a statement at the police-court which was taken down by the clerk.


11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-685
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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685. JOHN GASFORD (30), was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. COOKE and CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS HENSON . I was with the prisoner in the Queen's-road, Chelsea, when he gave me a shilling to get half an ounce of tobacco—I went in to get it—the woman served me—I gave her the shilling and got change, which I gave to the prisoner who was standing outside—he then asked me to go in for another half-ounce, and gave me a two-shilling bit—the man served me then, and I gave him the two-shilling bit, and he said, "Tell the man to come in"—I went out and told the prisoner the man wanted to speak to him, and I waited outside the public-house while the prisoner went into the tobacco shop—the woman from the shop came up to me and then went into the public-house.

Cross-examined by MR. PATER. Q. Does the prisoner live with your father? A. Yes; at Hope-cottages, Park-place, Chelsea—when I went into the shop, the prisoner was outside with a barrow and some flowers—I saw. no one in the shop but the woman and man at any time.

MR. COOKE. Q. Has the prisoner got a wife? A. Yes; she lives with him at my father's.

MARY ANN WALLACE . My husband keeps a tobacconist's shop in the Queen's-road—on Thursday evening, 30th April, the last witness came into my shop—I served him with half an ounce of tobacco—he gave me a shilling and I gave him 10 1/2 d. change, and put the shilling in the till where there was no other silver—he came in again about half an hour after—my husband served him with some tobacco, and he produced a two-shilling piece—my husband said it was bad—some conversation passed between them, and the boy left the shop—I then looked in the till and found the shilling there was bad—I then went out, and saw the boy outside the Phoenix public-house—in consequence of what he said, I went in and saw the prisoner—I taxed him with sending a boy in with a bad shilling and florin, and he said, "Come outside"—I did so—I held the shilling between my thumb and finger, and he snatched it away—at that time the landlord of the Phoenix came up, and said to the prisoner, "Governor, you have given me a bad shilling," and told the boy to go for a policeman—on that the prisoner ran away.

Cross-examined. Q. Is there a public-house close to your shop? A. Yes; next door, called the "Chelsea Pensioners"—I did not see the prisoner there at any time, or the boy—the Phoenix is about five minutes walk from our shop—I took all the money out of the till about half an hour before the boy came in—there was no silver in it, only halfpence.

THOMAS WALLACE . I am the husband of the last witness—on the evening of 30th April, that little boy came into my shop, and asked for half an ounce of tobacco, and tendered a two-shilling piece to my daughter—she handed it to me—it was bad—in consequence of something I said to the boy, he went out of the shop, and I saw him join the prisoner, who was standing at the corner of Smith-street, close at the Chelsea Pensioners public-house—they walked hastily down Smith-street, towards the Phoenix, and my wife went after them—I afterwards gave the florin to a policeman.

Cross-examined. Q. At the time the boy came in the second time, what money was in the till. A. A few halfpence and this one shilling—I am certain there was no silver under the coppers—my daughter is not here.

HENRY CHOWN . I am landlord of the Phoenix in Smith-street, Chelsea—on the evening of 30th April, I remember Mrs. Wallace coming in—about three minutes before that, the prisoner came in and asked for half-a-quartern of gin, and gave me a shilling—I gave him change, and put the shilling in

the till—Mrs. Wallace charged him with passing bad money, and he was very anxious to get her outside—on that I looked at my till and found a bad shilling on the top of some small change—I went outside with the shilling in my hand, and said to him, "Governor, you have given me a bad shilling"—he immediately snatched it from my hand and gave me a good one—I told him I should detain him and send for a policeman—he then ran away as hard as he could run—I followed him, crying, "Stop thief!" and he was stopped by Sergeant Barker.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know the prisoner at all? A. No; I believe his father is a pensioner, a respectable man—I know the boy by his bringing in a half-crown before that.

JAMES BARBER (Policeman, B 16). I was in the King's-road on this night, heard a cry of "Stop thief!" and saw the prisoner running and Mr. Chown after him—I ran and caught the prisoner and he was given into my custody—he commenced struggling—I had hold of his right arm—he put his left hand in his pocket and threw something away—I told the people to look out, and a boy picked up this bad shilling (produced)—I searched him at the station, and in his left-hand pocket I found a bad two-shilling piece and a bad shilling—I also found in the same pocket nine sixpences, a fourpenny piece, two threepenny pieces, and 1s. 9 1/2 d. in copper, good money, and some tobacco—I received this florin (produced) from Mr. Wallace.

JAMES GEORGE JARRATT . I saw the prisoner and policeman struggling together, and heard the policeman say, "Look out for something"—I picked up this bad shilling and gave it to him—I was about half a yard from the prisoner at the time.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . The coins produced are all counterfeit, and the two florins are from the same mould.

GUILTY .*— Confined Eighteen Months.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-686
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

686. ROBERT DRUCE (30), and THOMAS TOWNSEND (33) Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. COOKS and CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES WEST . I keep the Albemarle Arms in South Audley-street—on 21st April, I saw my niece serve Townsend, and in his presence she showed me a bad half-crown which she had taken from him and bent—I asked him if he had got any more—he said, "No"—I asked him where he got it—he said, "At the steam-boat at London Bridge"—he said he had no other money—I then gave him the half-crown back, and he went away without drinking the beer he had asked for—I suggested to a Mr. Godfrey who was in the bar, to follow him, and he did so.

HENRY GODFREY . I am a reporter—on 21st April I was at the Albemarle Arms, and saw Townsend leave the house—I followed him—he walked up and down South Audley-street for about ten minutes—I never lost sight of him—he then went into Hyde-park, and was there joined by Druce—they sat down together about a quarter of an hour, and then went across the head of the Serpentine and out at Park-place by the barracks—I went out at Albert-gate, and there met McLeod, 18 B——I made a communication to him, and we both watched the prisoners—they went into the Brompton-road for some distance, and then separated—Townsend went direct across the road to a baker's shop—I followed into the shop, and he was in the act of receiving a half-crown back from the young woman—I heard him say he did not know it was bad—I said he must have known it, because he tried to pass one in South Audley-street—he made no answer—McLeod took him in custody and received the half-crown.

MARY FLETCHER . I serve in Mr. Jobbin's, a baker's shop in Brompton—on 21st April Townsend came in and asked either for a penny bun or two halfpenny loaves, I can't say which, and gave me a bad half—crown—I told him it was bad—what the last witness has stated is correct—I gave the half-crown to the policeman.

Townsend. Q. You did not hand me the half-crown back? A. I was going to, and the policeman came in.

DANIEL MCLBOD (Policeman, B 18). My attention was called to the two prisoners by Mr. Godfrey, and we followed them to the Brompton road—I spoke to 274 B, and gave him some instructions—I took Townsend in the baker's shop and received this half-crown (produced)—at that time I saw Druce and the other policeman standing together—Mr. Godfrey beckoned me to the shop-door—I looked at Druce at that time, and noticed he was hastening his pace, and going between a run and a good walk towards Lloyd's-place—I went there next morning, and on searching I found one bad half-crown and two bad florins, and a workman there picked up another bad florin and handed it to me—a very low fence separatee Lloyd's-place from where the money was—when we took the prisoners to the station they said they were strangers to each other—we found 2d. on Druce, and 2 1/2 d. on Townsend in a bundle which he had.

RICHARD NEWTON (Policeman, B 274). Druce was pointed out to me by the last witness—I followed him, and saw him go down Lloyd's-place, lost sight of him for a few seconds, and then saw him again coming from underneath the wood fence—there is no thoroughfare—he was obliged to come back—I heard Townsend say at the station that the half-crown which he offered to the man at the public-house was the same which he tendered at the baker's shop.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These coins are all bad.

The prisoners' statements before the magistrate were here read as follows:—townsend says—"I had not the park, and asked him for a pipe of tobacco. I had nothing to do, so I walked to Brompton with him, and am happy to find that I am made richer than I really was." Druce says—"I have nothing to say."

Druce's Defence. I was coming across Hyde-park, and Townsend came up and asked me the way to Knightabridge. I told him I was going that way, and we went together. I saw him go into the baker's shop, and they took me because I was in his company. I know nothing of this man:

Townsends Defence. I know nothing of this man, neither does he know anything about me.

GUILTY . (See next case).

TOWNSEND— Confined Nine Months.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-687
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

687. ROBERT DRUCE was again indicted for feloniously uttering counterfeit coin. MESSRS. COOKE and CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.

The evidence of James West, Henry Godfrey, Mary Fletcher, Daniel McLeod, Richard Newton, and William Webster, as given in the last case, was read over to them, to which they assented.

Prisoner. I have nothing more to say.


He was further charged with having been before convicted of uttering, at this Court on 7th July, 1862, >in the name of Charles McDonald, and sentenced to nine months' imprisonment; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY. ††— Six Years' Penal Servitude.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-688
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

688. GEORGE CLAREMONT (28) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin, having other counterfeit coin in his possession.

MESSRS. COOKE and CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.

JANE PENTECOST . I keep the Prince of Wales public-house at Westminster—on Thursday, 30th April, the prisoner came to my bar and asked for a glass of six-ale, and gave me a very bad shilling—I gave it to my husband and he bent it, and the prisoner said he could pay in coppers, and he did so—he took the shilling, and it could not be found—a constable was sent for, and he was given in charge.

Prisoner. Q. How do you know the shilling was bad? A. I tried it, and my husband too—I am quite sure it was a very bad one.

JAMES JOYCE (Policeman, B 261). The prisoner was given into my custody at the Prince of Wales beer-shop on the 30th April—I asked him for the bad shilling that had been bent and given back to him, and he said he had given it to some one who was standing by round the bar—I searched him, and in the corner of his left—hand coat pocket I found a bad half-crown—I also found a shilling, sixpence, and fourpence-halfpenny in copper, good money—he refused his address.

Prisoner. Q. Did you ask me if I knew of the half-crown. A. After I took the half-crown out of your pocket, I said, "This is rather a bad one," and you said, "I was not aware it was there."

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This is a bad half-crown—a good shilling will bend, but if a shilling bends easily it must be a bad one.

Prisoner's Defence. I did not know the shilling was bad. I had not the half—crown on my person when I entered the house. I had my good money in my trousers pocket.

GUILTY *— Confined Eighteen Months.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-689
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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689. JANE ROBBINS (30) , Unlawfully having counterfeit coin in her possession, with intent to utter it.

MESSRS. COOKE and CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.

DAVID MILLER (City-policeman, 473). I was on duty in Cheapside on the night of the 30th April, and saw the prisoner and a man quarrelling, and she gave the man in charge for assaulting her—I took hold of her hand, and found eleven counterfeit florins in it—she said the man had given them to her—she was taken to the station—3d. in copper wan found on her—she gave her name and address—the man was taken into custody, brought before the magistrates the next day, and then discharged after she had made a statement.

Prisoner. He never took hold of ray hand; I gave them to him.

Witness. She said she had something in her hand that would give her two years—I put out my hand, and she drew her hand from under her cloak and gave them to me.

The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was hen read as follows:—"I solemnly declare that the young man, Jesse Bobbins, who is now charged with me, is innocent of the charge, for he did not know that I had such things about me I went out about 9 in the morning to work, and as he did not come home I went out with a friend, and was drinking. I met him down Cheapside; he was very drunk, and he hit ma I said I would lock him up if he did it again, and he did do it again, and I gave him in charge to the policeman. As soon as he saw me speaking to the policeman he ran away. He never knew that I had such a thing as bad money with me; it was given to me by the young woman I was drinking with to mind for her till the next morning. That is the humble and truthful statement of Jane Robbins."

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I have examined these florins; they are all bad, and several are from the same mould.

The prisoner, in a written defence, repeated in substance her statement before the Magistrate.


11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-690
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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690. ROBERT SAUNDERS (50) PLEADED GUILTY to two indictments for forging and uttering orders for the payment of money.

Six Years' Penal Servitude.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-691
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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691. RICHARD HUGHES (28) PLEADED GUILTY to forging and uttering an order for the payment of 70l. He received a good character.

Confined Twelve Months.

THIRD COURT.—Tuesday, May 12th, 1863.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-692
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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692. LETITIA SOMERVILLE (23), was indicted for a robbery with violence on Henry Capon, and stealing from him a breast—pin, his property.

MR. COLLINS conducted the Prosecution.


11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-693
VerdictsNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown

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693. JOHN BARRATT (25) , Forging and uttering a request for the payment of 15l. 7s. 4d., with intent to defraud.

MR. SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution, MR. WOOLLETT the Defence.


He was again indicted for fraud.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

OLD COURT.—Wednesday, May 13th, 1863.

Before Mr. Justice William.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-694
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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694. WILLIAM CLATARD (44), was indicted for feloniously killing and slaying William Cooper. He was also charged on the Coroner's inquisition with the like offence. MR. THOMPSON conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES FLOWER I live at 3, Hartland-road, Camden-town—about 11 or 12 o'clock on 31st March, I was going down Hampstead-street—there was a quarrel in Conway-mews there between the deceased and the prisoner—I first saw two women shouting and making a great noise—I went down to see what it was—as I was going underneath the archway leading to the mews the prisoner came out from the stable and struck the deceased over the head with a hammer—he had the hammer in his right hand—it was a small hammer—the deceased fell on his right arm—he did not fall on the stones—I picked him up—he was bleeding very much indeed from the back part of the head—I only saw one blow—I heard nothing that passed between them—after the prisoner had struck the blow he went inside the coach-house and threw the hammer behind a Hansom cab that was there—he then came out and said to me, "He has fallen down"—I said, "That won't do for me, master, I know better"—the prisoner made no reply to that—I assisted policeman 162 in taking the man to the hospital—the first policeman that came up was 54—he went inside to search for the prisoner—I saw him bring him out—I told the policeman at the station that the prisoner had struck the man with a hammer, and that he would find it in the coach-house.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH (with MR. BESLEY). Q. To whom did you

make that statement? A. To No. 54; it was not in the prisoner's presence—I happened to be in this neighbourhood that morning—I was going on my own business—I was passing along the public street when I heard the quarrelling down the mews, just inside the archway—I did not see a Hansom cab in the yard; I saw one in the coach-house—the doors of the coach-house were open—I believe the cab was being painted—I did not notice whether there was a paint-pot and brush on the ground close to it—I have been a witness here before in the murder case in South-street, when I got most brutally knocked about, and have not had my health ever since—there was only the two women and myself in the yard besides the prisoner and the deceased—those were all I saw—I have only seen one of the women since; the other was so beastly drunk that she kept bathing the deceased with her handkerchief with the blood—it was the quarrelling I heard that induced me to go into the yard, and the women were shouting, holding up their bands, and making a most fearful noise—they were very drunk indeed—the deceased was also the worse for liquor—I did not see him go towards the prisoner and put his face close to his in an offensive attitude just before be fell—the moment I went into the yard I saw the prisoner raise his arm, with the hammer in his hand, and strike the deceased—I saw nothing before that—I saw the prisoner come out of the stable or coach—house, that was the distance of about a yard or a yard and a half from where the man fell—the deceased was then standing doing nothing that I could see—he was making a noise, shouting out—he was using some bad language, but I don't know what it was—the place where he fell was not close to the Hansom cab, it was on the stones, the cab was in the coach-house—he fell out on the stones, but he did not fall on his head, he fell on his arm—I did not appear at the first or second examination before the magistrate—I did not mean to appear at all—I was only there once—there were three examinations—I attended the inquest and was examined there—I saw the police-constable Young in Tottenham-court—road—I asked him how the man, was going on, and he said he was dead—I told Young that I had seen the deceased struck with a hammer, and he told me I had better attend the police-court—Tobit, the officer, did not know where I resided; I did not leave my address at the station; I do not frequent any public—house in the neighbourhood—the case in which I was a witness before was the case of Quail and others—I happened to be passing when I witnessed that occurrence—I was also a witness in a burglary case at Norwood, tried before the Common Serjeant in the Third Court—I was passing when some men were offering some of the tickets for sale in Shoreditch—the deceased had his hat and coat off when he was struck—when I picked him up he turned up his shirt sleeves, and said he would fight him—I believe the women also wanted to fight.

MR. THOMPSON. Q. Have you any doubt about what you have told us, that the prisoner struck the deceased with a hammer? A. Not the least—I am nearly thirty years of age—this is the third criminal trial in which I have been a witness.

CATHERINE JOHNSON . I did live at 4, Hertford-place, Clement's-lane—I now live in Tottenham-place, Tottenham-court-road—I am single—on 31st March I was in company with the deceased man, Cooper, in Conway-mews—I remember a quarrel taking place, at least, there was a talking, I could not tell what it was about, between the deceased and the prisoner—I saw the prisoner strike the deceased with something, I cannot say what—he had something in his hand, I could not swear what it was—the prisoner

seemed to be in a little corner on the left-hand side—he came a little way out of the corner when he struck the blow—after he had struck the man he went back to the same place he came came from—the deceased fell when he was struck—the blow seemed to be at the back of the head—I saw him picked up—the back of his head was bleeding very much when he was picked up—the policeman came a little time after, and the prisoner was given into custody.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH Q. Had yon left your house that morning at 6 o'clock? A. Yes; I met with Cooper about 7 o'clock, I had known him before—I was with another female, Baker, and another man named Kidd—I had not known him before—we all went to a public-house at the corner of Titchfield-street, and had a pint of stout; we then went to another public-house in Cleveland-street, and had some half-and-half at the bar—I can't tell how long we stayed there—we then went to another house in Hampetead street—I think we bad some half-and-half there—we went into the parlour there—half a quartern of gin was called for there, and some hot water—we were not much the worse for what we had had; Baker was the worst—we were none of us the better, but I recollect everything that occurred—Cooper was not considerably the worse for liquor—he was not intoxicated—he might have been a little the worse for liquor—he was not loud in his conversation, or making use of foul and threatening language in my presence—I never heard him say, "I will go down the mews, and give the b——a good jacketing;" he used no such language in my presence—I went out of the public-house twice I don't know the postman—I might have seen the barmaid, but I did not notice her—Cooper, Kidd Bakery and I, did not all go to the mews together—Cooper left us first, and went out; he was gone some little time—I did not hear him say he was going down the mews—I was then in the parlour—I stayed there, I should think, five or six minutes after Cooper left—I will swear it was not half an hour—the landlord did not come in and desire us to be turned out of the house—he did not' tell me, or say in my presence, that if we did not behave better, he would not allow us to remain in the house—no person came in-and told us that our friend had met with an accident—we came out, and left Kidd in the parlour—the landlord did not come into the room, and complain of some indecent conduct that was going on in the parlour, and order us out—I will swear that; nothing of the kind took place in my presence—I was not told before I left the house that the deceased had met with an accident in the mews—it is not the fact that when I got outside the public-house, I found the deceased being led out of the yard by Holman, with his head bleeding—the time I saw him was when he fell down—when I saw him he was on the ground, and his coat was on—I saw him struck, and saw him fall—neither I or Baker held his coat before he was struck—the deceased knew me, and knew my name—I do not know Mr. Williams (he was here called in)—I don't recollect ever seeing that gentleman—I went up the yard screaming—that was after the blow was struck—I gave a boy a penny at the top of the yard to go for a policeman.

JAMES STEVENS . I live at 20, Market-street, Fitzroy-market, and work at a coal-shop—I am getting on for twelve years of age—on 31st March, between 11 and 12 o'clock, I was in Conway-mews—I saw a quarrel there between the prisoner and Cooper—I saw the prisoner hit Cooper on the head with a hammer—he had come out of the stable, and after he had hit him he went back again into the stable—when Cooper was hit he fell down—he was hit on the back of his head—I saw him picked up, and the back part

of his head was bleeding—there was some quarrel before the blow was struck—I did not hear what it was—I was there when the policeman came up, and I saw the prisoner brought out of the stable by the police.

COURT. Q. How long was that after he went into the stable, having struck the blow? A. Not long—I don't know bow long—a few minutes.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Q. Were you not a long way off from were the blow was struck? A. No; about as far as I am from you—I was in the street—I could see the Hansom cab from where I was—I could see the prisoner get out of the cab; he was doing something to the cab—he went from the cab into the stable—the deceased was not far from him then; he had his coat on—I did not see him take it off; I did not tee his coat off—I was examined once before the Magistrate, and once before the Coroner—my evidence before the Magistrate was taken down in writing, and read over to roe, and I put my mark to it—this is my mark (The witness's deposition being read, stated that the deceased coat was off)—I did not say his coat was off, I said it was on—I mentioned about the hammer to my master and mistress when I got home.

COURT. Q. When the prisoner was doing something to the cab, had he the hammer in his hand, working with it? A. Yes.

MR. BESLEY. Q. Was he not inside the cab with a paint-brush in his hand, painting the foot-board? A. I saw the hammer in his hand; I did not see the paint-brush—he was sitting in the cab—I don't know the prisoner's wife—I saw a woman go out of the mews for a policeman—the lady (Johnston) gave me a penny to go for a policeman, and I went and fetched one—she came from down the mews; sip was at the top of the mews, not quite close to the public-house—I had been down the yard and bock again before she gave me the penny—no one had mentioned to me about the hammer before I told my master and mistress about it.

JURY. Q. Had either of the men their coats off? A. One of them, I think.

WESLEY TOBIT (Policeman, E 54) On 31st March, between 11 and 12 o'clock, I was called to Conway-mews by the prisoner's wife—I got there about five minutes after 11—I found the deceased in the mews Meeting dreadfully—there were two women and one man with him—I searched for the prisoner, and found him in a room over the stable, where he lived—I brought him down to Cooper, and told him he was given in charge for striking Cooper on the head with a hammer—he said that Cooper came and asked him for a job, that he refused him, and then the deceased swore at him, and abused him—he said that he was in his cab painting his cab at the time, that he jumped out of his cab, and went out of the coach-house into the mews, and knocked him down with the paint-brush—he showed me a paint-brush; I have not got it here—it was about a foot long—it was a goodish-sized brush, the handle was thicker round than thin iron rod—I did not search more for the hammer then, I wanted to get the deceased to the hospital—there was too much blood on his head to see whether there was any paint—you could not have seen it if it had been there—when the prisoner said he had knocked Cooper down with the paint-brush, Cooper said in his presence that he had knocked him down with the hammer—the prisoner said he did not, he knocked him down with the paint-brush—I took the prisoner to the station—when I came out of the station, I met Flower, and he, said he had seen the man knocked down with a hammer.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Q. You say you searched for the prisoner; did he not come forward voluntarily? A. He came directly I asked him—he did not come to the door; I went up after him—he offered to come to

the station directly—I saw Flowers when I came out of the station; he was not in the station—I had never seen him before—I saw him directly I got into the mews, holding the deceased up—that was about fifteen minutes after the blow had been struck, as they said; the prisoner said so, and so did the deceased—they all said they had been about a quarter of an hour before they could get a policeman there—I was the first policeman that came—the prisoner's wife fetched me, and after I got there I sent for the other constable—I searched for a hammer, not in the yard, in the coach-house; I did not find any—I never searched more for the hammer after the prisoner showed me the paint-brush—the yard is paved with stones; none of them are loose; they are round stones, worn down a good deal—Flowers told me outside the station, that he saw the prisoner knock the man down with a hammer, and then throw it behind the Handsom cab—he did not tell me that in the mews, but outside the station, after the prisoner was locked up.

WILLIAM YOUNG (Policeman, E 162). Between 11 and 12 o'clock on the morning of 31st March, I went to Conway-mews—a boy told me that a man had been struck on the head with a hammer, and one constable was there, and wanted assistance—when I got to the mews I saw Cooper there, bleeding very much from the back part of the head—I took him to the hospital—in going along, he nearly fell down from the loss of blood—he bled through everything that he had on—he stated that he had been struck on the head with a hammer by Mr. Clayard—the prisoner came out of the stable after I got there—I was at the hospital on 18th April, when Mr. Knox took his deposition—I took the prisoner there—some one attended on his behalf, and asked the deceased some questions—I saw him sign his deposition, and the Magistrate also.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Q. Did not the prisoner take you down the mews, and beg you to look for the hammer? A. No—I went and looked for it, but did not find it—I don't remember the prisoner asking me to search for it; he might have done so—I don't think it was Stevens who came to fetch me; but I ran off in a hurry; I did not look at the boy.

JOHN CLIFFORD (Police-sergeant, E 9). I was present when the prisoner was brought to the police-station; he was charged with violently assaulting William Cooper, by striking him on the head with a hammer, in Conwaymews—he said, "Yes; I knocked him down, but not with a hammer"—he said Cooper had provoked him to do so; he had given him great provocation.

ARTHUR NANKIVEL . I am house-surgeon at University College Hospital—on 31st March, I was sent for to see Cooper—I found him bleeding from a scalp wound, a little at the right side—he remained in the hospital till he died, on 27th April—the cause of his death was pyemia, that is, sundry abscesses—that was produced by the injury to the head, the blow—such an injury could be caused by a small hammer—it was from a quarter to half-past 11 when I first saw him—I did not notice any trace of paint about the back of his head—I do not think that a man striking another with a paint-brush, as has been described, could have produced the injury; it might do so, if it was a very heavy brush.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Might a man the worse for liquor, reeling about, and falling on stones, receive just such a wound? A. Not if the stones were flat; a projecting stone might do so—the deceased was a stout man—at one time he was nearly well, and was walking about his ward—injuries to the bones are very liable to be followed by the abscesses—the bone was injured—when I first saw him he had been drinking.

The deposition of the decreased William Cooper was here read at follows; "I am now a patient in this hospital. On Tuesday, 31 at March last, between 11 and half-past in the morning, I went to Conway Mews with a cabman, and two women I happened to meet, and we had a pot of beer and a quartern of gin among the four of us. I went outside for a necessary purpose, and saw Mr. Clayard there in a stooping position, either tacking the lining or the fall of a cab, just done up, with a hammer. I was buttoning up my trousers; my back was towards him; I said, "Can you give me a job, master," joking with him. He said, "No." I said I could do without his job, and he came behind me with the hammer, and said he would knock my b—brains out, and he struck me with the hammer. I fell down. The prisoner is the man that struck me; he is a bad man. He only struck me once. I got up again immediately, and saw him going into the stable with the hammer, but the policeman was not quick enough to detect him with the hammer. He had loads of time to make away with the article. The policeman came up. There was a woman there that saw him strike me; I think her name was Nolan; she was a young woman, and had a dark cloak on. Cross-examined. I saw him go into the stable with the hammer after he struck me. I stood in the mews bleeding till the policeman came, while he had gone into the stable. I never went out of the mews. I was in the mews till the policeman came I sat on the shaft of the cab a little while while I was bleeding, and I stood up till the policeman brought me here. I do not recollect going into the public-house after he took me; I am almost confident I did not I walked from the mews to the hospital, bleeding all the way. I was rather insensible after I was struck with the hammer. I do not recollect if I walked up the mews. I had not made water at the corner of the mews a quarter of ah hour before this happened. A man did not lead me up the mews to my knowledge. When he said, "No," I said I could do without him. The last time I drove for him I owed him a few shillings, and I expect that is the envious feeling he has against me. He was behind me when he struck the blow. By the Magistrate. It was instantaneous upon my reply that he struck me."

Witnesses for the Defence.

THOMAS DAVIS . I am a cab proprietor, residing at 6 and 7, Conway-mews, Hampstead-road—on the day of this occurrence, I was standing leaning over my loft gate; that is on the same side as Mr. Clayards, further down from the gateway—there is a projecting wall from Claryard's, so that a person standing at the gateway cannot possibly see his coach-house—it projects from twelve to sixteen feet—I saw the deceased come through the gateway down the mews, and go up to where Clayard was—he was inside his Hansom cab, painting the bottom of it—the cab was outside the coach-house door—I was two stables off; about fifteen yards off—I could see quite well—I did not hear whether the deceased spoke to Clayard—the first I heard was Clayard say, "I should not give you a place"—the deceased made answer, "You are a b—old b—; you can put the place up your—"—Clayard got out of the cab, and walked to a wheel that was banging on a spindle on the coach-house—the deceased walked up to him, and told him to put his place where the monkey put the tobacco, and he put his face offensively close to Clayard's, and made a noise with his month; I could hear it—he put his face quite close enough to Clayard's to spit in his face, but whether he did or not I could not see—up to that time Clayard had not touched him—he then gave him a shove, and he fell heavily, with the back of his head on the stones—he laid there for nearly a minute—Clayard called his horsekeeper,

Holman, and said, "Jack, help this man up, and take him out of the mews and if he don't go away lock him up"—Holman took him out of the mews—up to that time the witness Johnson was not in sight, nor Flowers, or the boy Stevens; there was not a soul there, only those employed in the yard, and there was no one in the gateway—in two or three minutes the deceased came back again; Clayard was then in his stable—I was still at my loft, in the same place—two women and another man were then with the deceased—the witness Johnston is one of the women—the deceased called Clayard out to fight, using frightful language, and the women were urging him on—Clayard was not visible then; he was inside his stable, and one of the women pointed me out as the man—I did not see the deceased fall again—Clayard never came out of his stable till he came out with the policeman in custody—I heard nothing about a hammer till the second policeman, Young, came—I cannot say who first said anything about a hammer, but I think it was one of the women—I can say positively that Clayard did not strike the deceased either with a hammer, a paint-brush, or any other weapon—I have known him about twelve months; he is a most sober man.

Cross-examined by MR. THOMPSON. Q. Is the entrance to this mews under the first floor of a public-house? A. Yes; the projecting wall prevents your seeing straight into the mews—the cab was standing on a tressel; the shafts were drawn out of the coach-house into the mews, and Clayard was painting inside the bottom of the cab underneath the fall—I don't know whether there was a fall there, or not; if he was doing it in a proper way he would have the fall taken out—I will swear he was not tacking up the lining of the fall—I saw him using his brush—I saw the whole of the occurrence till the time the prisoner wan taken into custody—Holman picked the deceased off the ground, and took him out of the yard—it is not true that Flowers picked him off the ground—I will swear that Flowers was not there in the first affray—in the second bout there were twenty or thirty people there, and I could not swear he was not there then—there was only one fall, and that was from a push—I will swear that Flowers did not pick the man off the ground—I was there when policeman, E 54, came—it was Young that took the deceased to the hospital; I believe another man assisted him, who he was I don't know—I took no notice—that man could not have been there in the first instance without my knowing it, because I saw all the mews—I swear he was not there—I saw Kidd and the two women—they were not there when the fall took place—I did not go down from my loft till all the people were gone—when Clayard pushed the prisoner it was with his hand—the paint-brush was not in his hand—that was the only push given—it was in the chest—I should think the paint he was using was drab, or stone-colour—I did not observe the paint-pot.

JURY. Q. Was the deceased a fair man? A. Yes; if the paint had got on his hair I should think it would have been seen.

COURT. Q. Did yon see the blood coming from his bead? A. Yes; when he got up, I saw it on the stones, and on his back—there was a great deal of blood—I never saw such a deal—I should have thought the man would have dropped long before—he was in a most excited state—when he came back, after two or three minutes, he was covered with blood—it was dripping from the wound, and running down the back part of his waistcoat—he had his coat on the whole time—the first time—the prisoner's coat was off when he shoved him—when the deceased came down the mews again he came without his coat.

JAMES LAWN . I am a cab-driver, in the service of Mr. Davis, the last witness, who is a cab-proprietor—on the day of this occurrence I was in the mews; about the centre of the mews—I saw the deceased enter the mews—he came from the direction of Mr. Williams's public-house, at the corner of the gateway, the Adam's Arms—he came down to within two or three yards of where Mr. Clayard was painting the inside of the bottom of the cab, I believe, or repairing it—he was working with his coat off—I was six or seven yards from them—I heard the deceased say, "Governor, have you got anything for me this morning?" he said, "No; nothing for you; I wish you would go away and not trouble me any more"—the deceased said, "Who are you, that you are not to be spoken to"—he said, "No one; but go away, my man, and don't trouble me any more"—the deceased got closer to him, and made motions with his mouth, and said, "You old b—, who are you?"—Mr. Clayard turned round towards where the wheel was hanging on the spindle; the deceased was going on calling him all the blackguards he could, when he turned quickly round and gave him a sharpish push on the chest, and he went backwards on the back part of his head on the stones—I saw his hat. roll about a yard and a half from him—Mr. Clayard called Holman, his horse-keeper, to take him up to the top of the mews, and to give him in charge of the police, if he did not go away—Holman took him to the top of the gateway—up to that time there was no one there, neither Johnson, Stevens, or Flowers—the deceased came down the yard a second time—I saw him take off his coat at the top of the mews, and a man who was with him then had it—Mr. Clayard was not in the yard then; he was up stairs washing himself—the deceased was calling and shouting for Mr. Clayard, and telling him to come out to fight using abusive language—by this time there was a congregation of children, and all sorts, coming down the gate.

JURY. Q. You say that Clayard was repairing the cab; did you hear the, sound of the hammer? A. I saw him with nothing in his hand at the time he left the cab—he makes his own cabs up—he was repairing or painting this cab—I could not hear the sound of a hammer—there was no such thing—I had seen him just before with a paint-brush in his hand, but he had nothing in his hand at the time he gave the push.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you a night or a day cabman? A. A day cab-man—I was on duty on 31st March—I saw all that occurred up to the time of the first policeman coming down, and then I had my hone to take back—when the deceased fell Mr. Clayard's horse-keeper lifted him up—he held himself halfway up and said, "I don't want to be helped by you"—he seemed to have been drinking—I saw him bleeding after he had got a few yards—I did not see it at first—I can't say who assisted him to the hospital—I had gone then—as I went out of the yard, I saw the prisoner go up stairs with a towel on his arm—the deceased was then in the yard stripping to fight, and calling out for Mr. Clayard, and using most abusive language.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. When you saw Mr. Clayard at the cab, where was the paint-pot? A. On the footboard.

JAMES HOLMAN . I am in Mr. Clayard's employment—on the morning that this happened I saw the deceased coming down into the mews—Mr. Clayard was painting the inside of the bottom of a cab—I was twelve or or thirteen yards from him when the deceased went up to him—I was not near enough to hear what passed—I saw the deceased very close to Mr. Clayard, as if speaking to him—I saw Mr. Clayard get out of the cab and push him—the deceased was talking to him—I did not see any offensive gesticulations—they were close together—he gave him a slight push on the

chest, and he fell on the back of his head on the stones—Mr. Clayard said to me, "Jack, come and pick this man up"—I did so, and took him to the top of the yard—I persuaded him to go to the hospital or the doctors, and offered him money out of my pocket—he was bleeding—I met no one in the yard—as I was taking him up the mews he made a bit of a stumble at the top, and almost pulled me into the public-house, and I then saw two females inside the public-house drinking—they came outside, and the tallest of the two repeated about the hammer, about striking the man on the head with the hammer—I had heard nothing about a hammer before that—the parties that came out of the public-house came down the yard, and the tallest woman swore that Mr. Clayard had struck the man on the head with a hammer—at the time I saw the deceased fall neither of those women were down the mews—the first I saw of them was when I led the deceased up to the public-house—I saw marks of blood afterwards on the stones where the deceased had fallen.

Cross-examined. Q. Was the witness Johnston the woman who said the man had been struck with the hammer? A. Yes; I have been employed by the prisoner about three mouths—the deceased only fell once, and I picked him up—he was on the ground about two minutes before I picked him up—he could not get up himself through drink—when I took him to the top of the yard I left him to go for a policeman to give him into custody; and when I came back there was a lot of people down the mews, and the deceased was at the bottom of the yard with his coat off, wanting to fight Mr. Clayard, and using abusive language—he was in that attitude when the policeman came up—Mr. Clayard was then up stairs—he had not been up stairs more than five minutes—it might have been half an hour between the time of the fall and the first policeman coming, it was full that—I did not hear the policeman tell Mr. Clayard that he was charged with striking the man on the head with a hammer—I saw him taken into custody—Mr. Clayard was painting the bottom of the cab with a brush, about ten inches long, and not more than an inch round where the string is wound round—the handle was about twice as thick as my thumb; the brush might weigh more than a quarter of a pound—the paint-pot was in his hand—he repairs and paints his own cabs—I know the man by sight who was with the two women, not by name—he was in the yard after it happened, but not at the time of the occurrence—the boy Stevens was not in the yard—there was nobody in the yard except the parties that worked down there—I was examined at the inquest.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Was the paint-pot one of the common earthenware ones? A. Yes—when his attention was taken from painting the cab, he put the pot and brush down—when the deceased fell, Mr. Clayard did not strike him with the paint-brush, or with a hammer—if he had done so with either, I must have seen it.

JURY. Q. Did the prisoner stay or leave the spot? A. He left immediately—he did not stay to assist the man—he told me to do so—he went inside the stable.

HENRY KIDD . I am a cabman—on the morning this happened, I met with the deceased, the witness, Johnston, and another woman—after going to one public-house and another, we went to the Adam's Arms, close to Conway-mews, and had something to drink—while there the deceased went out, leaving me and the women there—while he was out Mr. Williams, the landlord, came in and complained of our disorderly conduct, and threatened to turn us out—on our coming out of the public-house, I met the deceased

with his head bleeding—the women took him down the mews again—we were all a little the worse for drink.

Cross-examined. Q. You were not in the mews at the time any fall took place? A. No.

CHARLES JAMES WILLIAMS . I was proprietor of the Adam's Arms at the time in question—I remember Cooper, Kidd, and the two women, coming there—in consequence of hearing a disturbance, I went into the room where they were—Cooper had gone out just before that—I did not see him go out, but when I looked in the parlour he was not there—I went to the top of the mews and saw that he had met with an accident—his head was bleeding at that time—the two women were still in my house—I then returned to the parlour where the women were—they were behaving in a very indecent manner, and I ordered them to leave; they did so, and I followed them—at that time, Cooper was standing at the top of the yard bleeding—the women joined them, and they went down the mews.

COURT. Q. How did you bear that he had met with an accident? A. I heard it from persons at the door, not from the women—I heard nothing said about a hammer or a brush—I did not hear how the accident had occurred.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you see him taken away by the policeman? A. No; he was down the mews five or ten minutes after the parties left my house before the policeman came.

ELIZA WILLIAMS . I am the daughter of the last witness—I saw the deceased, Kidd, and the women, at our house—they were in the public parlour, which is divided by a thin partition from the bar-parlour, where I was—I saw the deceased leave them and pass through the bar to go out, but before that I heard them using threatening language towards somebody—I did not hear any name—about a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes after the deceased had left his companions were turned out—I had then heard of the accident—my father came to the door, and said some accident had happened down the mews, but he had not time to tell me what it was—I have known the prisoner eight or nine months—I believe he has borne a very good character as a peaceable man.

WILLIAM JOHNSON . I am potman at Mr. Williams's—on the morning of 31st March I saw the deceased, the two women, and Kidd there—they went into the public parlour and had some refreshment—I saw the deceased leave—I was sweeping outside the house—before he left I heard him say," I will go down in a minute and give the old b—such a jacketing—that was in the presence of Johnston and the others—they were very busy talking; she might not have heard it—he came out four or five minutes after that—I saw him again about seven minutes after that at the top of the mews with Holman—Holman had his hand on his arm—up to that time Kidd and the women had not left the public-house.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you see the man taken to the hospital? A. I saw the policeman lead him up the mews—I was then looking out of the staircase window—there were a good many people following—I have seen Flowers—he had not got hold of him—he might have been walking behind him—I did not see him.

MR. BESLEY. Q. Between the time of Holman's having hold of his arm and his being led out by the policeman, what time elapsed? A. Twenty minutes.

HENRY CUMMING . I am clerk to an auctioneer, of 26, London-street, Fitzroy-square—on this day I was standing at the auction-room door, which

is nearly opposite the Adam's Arms, and saw the deceased come up the mews with Holman—he nearly pulled Holman into the public-house, and he called out to his three friends that Clayard had pushed him down and cut his head open—I then went down the mews—I saw Kidd, Johnston, and another woman, come out of the public-house.

Cross-examined. Q. What did you see when you got down the mews? A. I followed the deceased and the others down, and saw one of the women point to Mr. Davis as the man that had done it, and the deceased turned round and said to her, "That is not Clayard, you b—fool, that is Mr. Davis"—they were using very bad language the whole of the time—they all came up the mews again—Clayard was up at his window washing himself when the policeman came down—the deceased showed the policeman the stable—I can't say who fetched the policeman—the deceased and the women walked up and down the mews two or three times between Davis's stable and Clayard's before the policeman came—he was bleeding very much—he had his coat on at the time he came to the top of the mews—he took it off when he went down again, and wanted to fight—he had his coat off when the policeman came—I did not see Flowers there—I don't know who assisted the deceased to the hospital with the policeman.

THOMAS ADDIS . I am a coach-trimmer, of 64, Boswell-street—on this Tuesday I was engaged at work for a Mr. Ell, at the bottom of Conway-mews—I saw the deceased come down the yard; he went towards Mr. Clayird's stables and began abusing him; he was alone—I did not observe what happened afterwards—I went on with my work till I saw Holman take him up the yard; there was no woman with him then—he afterwards came down the mews again with two women—he then had his coat off, and his shirt sleeves tucked up; his coat was on the first time—I saw Mr. Davis at his loft—at the time the deceased was picked up by Holman there was no one else in the yard.

CHARLOTTE ADDIS . I am the wife of the last witness—I had occasion to go to Conway-mews on this morning to see my husband—as I went into the mews I saw the deceased being led up the mews, with his head bleeding, by Holman—they went into the public-house—I afterwards saw the deceased come from the public-house with another man and two women, and go down the mews—I went down the mews—I saw a stone with blood on it, and I pointed it out to my boy—it was a projecting stone, and came to a sharp point.

Cross-examined—Q. Does your husband work for the prisoner? A. No; he had a job in the yard, and sent for me to help him—that was about 10 o'clock as near as I can tell.

JURY. Q. Whereabouts was the stone situated? A. Nearly facing the coach-house—there was a good deal of blood there.

Several witnesses deposed to the prisoners good character.

GUILTY .—The Jury stated that they believed the fall was caused merely by a push, and they strongly, recommended the prisoner to mercy in consequence of the extreme provocation he had received. Confined One Month.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-695
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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695. WILLIAM WALTER STEWART (44), was indicted for feloniously killing and slaying Anne Stewart.

MR. RIBTON conducted the Prosecution.

JANE BUFTON I live at 8, Lower John-street, Limehouse—I was servant at 10, Dove-street, where the prisoner and his wife lived—about a week before Tuesday, 24th March, between 4 and 5 in the afternoon, they were in bed—

the prisoner asked the deceased to send for some more rum—she refused, and he nudged her in the side with his elbow and said, "Come, send for it"—they were both in bed drunk, and had been all the morning—I said to him, laughing, "Mr. Stewart, you ought not to nudge Mrs. Stewart in the side like that"—he tried to get after me, but I got out of the room—he was very tipsy—I went out into the street and shut the street door after me—I stood at the door, and heard a noise as if somebody was choking—I then went in again, and pushed open the door—Mr. Stewart tried to get after me, and I ran away again and shut the door—about ten minutes afterwards I went back again—I then saw Mrs. Stewart in bed, and she complained of her side—the prisoner was present—I asked her what was the matter with her, and she said that Mr. Stewart had given her a very heavy blow in the side as he stood by the mantelpiece—he did not say anything on that—he was out of bed then—I said to him, "You ought to be ashamed of yourself to hit Mrs. Stewart like that"—he said I ought not to talk to him like that, and he gave me a slap in the face—he then went into the next room, put on his things, and went out—Mrs. Stewart was very bad indeed after that, and I went for the doctor—the prisoner came back about three-quarters of an hour after the doctor had been—he sat on the bed, and I told him the doctor had been—he would not believe it at first—he said, "So help me God I would not mind hanging for you sooner than see you in this state"—next day he was very attentive to her, and he cried and said he was very sorry—he remained with her till her death.

Cross-examined by MR. TAYLOR. Q. When be nudged her as you say, they were quite good friends, were they not? A. Yes, it was done good humouredly—he said, "Come, Ann, send for a drop more"—they were both very drunk—I don't know that Mrs. Stewart fell and hurt her side some short time before this—I had only been there six weeks—it was on the right side that he nudged her—I did not hear him say that she had hurt herself against the bedstead—she told me the reason he gave her the blow was, because, when he was running after me she told him he ought not to say anything to that poor little thing—I did not examine her side at all—I am seventeen years of age.

ROBERT WEBB I am a surgeon at Poplar—I first saw the deceased on Friday, 20th March—I was not the first person called in—I found her suffering great pain, produced by a fracture of two ribs on the left side—she stated in the prisoner's presence that the crying was produced by a blow from his fist on the previous Tuesday, but that he did it in a passion, and she did not think he meant to hurt her—I attended her on the Saturday and Sunday, and she died on the Tuesday—I made a pod mortem examination on the Friday following—she died from inflammation, the result of the fracture.

Cross-examined. Q. Did she not say that she had got between the prisoner and another person, and so received the injury? A. No; she said it was because she would not send for more spirits—when I got there I did not think the case had been properly managed—the bones were not set—in consequence of that every time she breathed the fractured ends of the ribs caused inflammation—such a fracture would not necessarily cause inflammation—I believe she had led a very dissipated life, which would make her a worse subject, and she had also disease of the right lung; that entailed a greater use on the left, and made the fracture worse.

MR. RIBTON. Q. Might the fracture have been caused by a blow from a man's fist? A. I think so.

MR. TAYLOR. Q. Did you examine her side to sec whether there was any

bruise? A. No—at the time I was first called to see her the seat of fracture was covered by a large plaster which had been previously applied, and I did not think it desirable to remove it.

CAROLINE GRANT . I was with the deceased after the doctor had been—the prisoner was present—she said she was very bad—he said she should not drink so; it was causing him to drink as well—she said the doctor said her ribs were fractured—he said he was very glad of it, it served her right; she should not drink so—I was with her constantly—on the Sunday, five days after this, she said to him, "I do not blame you for it; you did not intend to do what was done"—at that time she appeared to be much better—it was not supposed she was in a desperate condition—Dr. Webb gave great hopes of her at one time—on one occasion she said she had received her death blow—she did not say how or from whom—all she said was that he had not done it intentionally, and he said he was very sorry for what had occurred.

Cross-examined. Q. Did not she say that she had got between him and another person, and so had received the injury? A. She said it was through an altercation with the girl Button, that she was saucy, and that caused a dispute—he said he had been commander of a ship, and he would not be spoken to by a girl like her, and he said to the deceased, "Ann, you ought to be ashamed of yourself to allow it"—she said it was through the girl she got the injury—I did not hear her say that she got between them—I did not see her side before the plaster was put on—I never saw any marks about her person—she died a week after she was taken ill—at the time he said it served her right he was very tipsy indeed; in fact, I don't think he knew what he was saying—I had known Mrs. Stewart about three years by doing needle-work for her on several occasions—the prisoner had only returned from abroad about three weeks before this—he then married her—I believe they had been married five weeks at the time of her death—I believe he married her directly he came ashore, but I don't know—I had not seen anything of her for more than a year and a half—it was not a house of good character—I heard they were constantly intoxicated from the time they were married.

GUILTY Confined Two Months.

THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, May 13th, 1863.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-696
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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696. WILLIAM GOULD (27) , Stealing a coat, value 2l. the property of Percy Fox . MR. COLLINS. conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY WINTERBORN . I am assistant to Mr. Grant, a pawnbroker, of 70, London-wall—I produce a coat pledged at our shop, on 7th April, by the prisoner, for 10s.—I have seen a duplicate which corresponds with the ticket I produce—I am quite sure it was the prisoner.

PERCY FOX . I am a clerk at 9, King William-street—this coat (produced) is mine—I lost it on 7th April—I saw it on that day—the value of it is 2l.—I did not give it to any one, or authorise any one to pledge or pawn it.

WILLIAM FORBES . I am messenger at 9, King William-street—the premises are being whitewashed—there were some men there at work on 7th April—I saw the prisoner on that day in the lobby, of the house—the coat was hanging in the hall.

Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. Were there a lot of workmen there? A. Yes—the prisoner was not working there.

WALTER BETTS (City-policeman, 461). I took the prisoner into custody, on 8th April, in the East-road, City-road—he is a painter and paper-hanger.

I believe—I told him I was a detective officer, and should take him into custody on suspicion of stealing a coat at No. 9, King William-street—he said, "I was at King William-street yesterday, but I did not steal the coat, neither did I see it"—he produced seven duplicates, one of which relates to a coat pledged on 7th April.

GUILTY .— Confined Four Months.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-697
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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697. JOHN NEIL (23) , Robbery with violence upon Thomas Greenall, and stealing from him one cap, his property.

MR. LAXTON conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS GREENALL . I am a gasfitter and bell-hanger, and when this occurred was living at 27, Thomas-street—on 7th April, about half-past 12, or a quarter to 1 at night, I was at the the corner of Broad-street, St. Giles', with my wife and another couple—we were just coming home from Greenwich—we were just turning round the corner when my wife was struck with an umbrella—I turned round, and saw the prisoner—I said, "What did you strike my wife for?"—he said nothing, but gave me a blow in the face, which knocked me down—there were several more men and women with him—when I was on the ground the prisoner and others kicked me several times, and then they all ran away—the prisoner ran away with my hat when he heard my wife scream—he took it from my head—my two friends were on before us, about 100 or 150 yards—they came back when they heard the screams—I got up and looked for my wife—the prisoner then came back when he saw us all quiet, and said he would go and fetch me my cap if I would give him sixpence—I told him I would give him a shilling if he would bring it to me—I knew at that time that he was the man who had struck me, and knocked me down—while he was gone for my cap the policeman came up, and when the prisoner brought the cap back I gave him in charge—nothing else was stolen from me—my wife's brooch and hair-net were taken at the same time.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTOIT. Q. Are you sure the prisoner snatched the cap from your head? A. Yes.

ELIZABETH GREENALL . I am the prosecutor's wife—I was with him on 7th April—I had hold of his arm, and we were just turning the corner when I was struck a very severe blow across the face with an old umbrella by a female—my husband asked the parties what they did it for, and he was struck and knocked down directly by the prisoner—while he was on the ground he was kicked very severely by several men, and this cap (produced) was taken from him by the prisoner—somehow they dropped the cap—I picked it up once, and the woman attacked me, and it was taken from me—I don't know who by—they scratched my face and tore my dress all over—I have it on now—they took my brooch and my hair-net—my clothes were nearly dragged off me, and my hair pulled out—there were about nine of them—we were walking along very quietly, making our way to Oxford-street.

Cross-examined. Q. You say you saw the prisoner take the cap from your husband's head? A. Yes; I have no doubt of that—it did not fall off, and I pick it up. The witness's deposition being read, contained these words. "My husband's cap fell off, and I picked it up; some five or six women pitched into me, and knocked me down, and the cap was snatched from me "—That is what I said—I was held down by the hair of my head—I was so excited when I was before the Magistrate.

RICHARD COLLENTON (Policeman, F 78). On 7th April I found the prosecutor

and his wife at the corner of Broad-street, St. Giles'—the wife's dress was in the same state as it is now, and her cloak also torn—the prosecutor appeared to have been struck—while I was there the prisoner came up with the cap—I did not hear what was said—he was offering the cap to the prosecutor—I stood a short distance off—I was in uniform—the prisoner was given into my custody by the prosecutor—the prisoner said he had just come from a public-house; he heard the prosecutor offer sixpence for his hat, and, knowing the man who had it, he went and fetched it—when before the Magistrate he said he knew who did it, but he did not know where they lived.


11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-698
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

Related Material

698. JOHN NEIL was again indicted for unlawfully assaulting Thomas Greenall . MR. LAXTON conducted the Prosecution.

The evidence of Thomas Greenall, as given in the last case, was read over to him, to which he assented.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTOX. Q. What is your address? A. 22, John-street, North, is my address now—I gave 27, Thomas-street, Oxford-street, to the constable, because I lived there two or three months—it is a coffee-shop—I had been at work till 1 o'clock on this day, and then went to Greenwich fair—I was quite sober—my wife was not carrying an umbrella—my wife was struck without any provocation or quarrelling—I did not charge anybody with striking her—the prisoner snatched my cap from my head; I swear that—this is my handwriting—it was read over to me, and I signed it, and said it was correct. The witness's deposition being read, stated: "The men then attacked me, and my cap was taken away"—that is a true account of it—the prisoner did take my cap from my head—the true story is what I have told to-day—I have heard what my wife has sworn—I did not see her with the cap—there were about five or six men, and the rest women.

MR. LAXTON. Q. Are you quite sure the prisoner is one of the men who were there? A. I will swear that that man kicked me and struck me and knocked me down, and that was what made me offer him a shilling to bring my cap back, as I thought there would be a policeman by the time he came back.

The evidence of ELIZABETH GREENHALL, as given in the last case, was read over—The prisoner is one of the men who kicked my husband when he was on the ground—my husband was sober—this (produced) is the umbrella I was struck with.

Cross-examined. Q. Does it belong to you? A. No—I had had a cup of tea and a glass of ale in the afternoon, and another glass after we left London-bridge coming home—I saw the prisoner take the cap from my husband's head when he was down—if I said before that it fell off, I did not mean to say it—I was very much excited—I know the prisoner took my husband's cap.

The evidence of RICHARD CALLENTON, as given in the last case, was read over—The prosecutor appeared to have been struck at the side of the mouth—on the cheek there was a swelling—he and his wife were perfectly sober—they knew perfectly well what they were about.

The prisoner received a good character.

GUILTY .—Recommended to mercy by the Jury.— Confined Three Days.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-699
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

699. JOHN HARRIS (34) , Robbery on John Jones, and stealing a coat and pair of trousers, his property.

MR. COLLNS conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN JONES . I am a labourer, and live at 6, Queen-street, Ratcliff—about 12 o'clock on 20th April, I was in the Commercial-road—I had a pair of new trousers and a pilot-coat in a bundle in my hand—I saw the prisoner coming before me, and some parties behind him—he came and hit me right in the face, and snatched the trousers from me—the blow staggered me; it did not knock me down—two men then came up and gave me a blow, and knocked me down, and one said to the other, "Kill the b—"—the blow knocked three of my teeth out—they only kicked me once; that was in the mouth—I hallooed, "Murder!" and they then ran away—I was afterwards taken to the police-station, and shown the trousers—I have never seen the coat since.

RICHARD KENWOOD (Policeman, H 194). On the night of 20th April, about 12 o'clock, I was passing along Went worth-street, Commercial-road, and heard cries of "Murder!" and "Police I"—I saw three men running from the direction where the prosecutor was on the ground—I made chase after them and caught the prisoner—I said, "What have you got there?"—he said, "Only a pair of trousers belonging to my mate"—I said, "You must come back and let me see who your mate is"—he was carrying them in front of him, under his coat, loose—I took him back to the corner of George-street, where the prosecutor was, bleeding from the mouth—the prisoner said, "I did take the trousers, but I merely took them an a joke"—these are them (produced).

Prisoner's Defence. He was along with a woman, drunk; he had the trousers over his shoulder, and dropped them, and I picked them up and ran away with them. I never touched him.

GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-700
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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700. JAMES LYNES (19), and JOHN GREEN (19) , Stealing a handkerchief from the person of a man unknown.

MR. COLLINS conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS SMART . I am a City detective—on 7th April, about half-past 1 o'clock, I saw the two prisoners in Barbican, near the end of Redcross-street—they were standing talking together—two gentlemen passed by towards Long-lane; the prisoners followed them nearly to Aldersgate-street, where Green put his hand into the pocket of one of the gentlemen, and stole from it a handkerchief, Lynes being close up to him at the time—they immediately turned round, Green at the same time passing the handkerchief to Lynes, and they separated—I took Lynes into custody, to Moor-lane station; Green made his escape, and was subsequently apprehended—I found this handkerchief in Lynes' coat-pocket—I have no doubt it is the same that was taken from the gentleman—Lynes had no other handkerchief, and I did not lose sight of him.

Cross-examined by MR. WOOD. Q. What were you doing all the time? A. I followed, watching them, about twenty yards behind—I was on the opposite side of the way—I distinctly saw Green put his hand into the gentleman's pocket—I could not apprehend both of them, they separated before I could get to them—the gentleman went westward—if I had gone after him I should have lost Lynes; I shouted—Lynes struggled to get away from me—there was a crowd of a hundred persons round in a few minutes—I had enough to do to hold the prisoner.

JOSEPH WILLIAM FAWKE (City-policeman, 112). From information I received I apprehended Green, on 7th April, at a low lodging-house in Golden-lane

—I told him I wanted him for being concerned, with Jemmy Pattison (that is Lynes), for stealing a handkerchief in Barbican—he said, "I have not seen Jemmy Pattison, and I have not been in Barbican to-day."


The prisoners were further charged with having been before convicted of felony in November, 1860, at Guildhall, Lynes in the name of James Pattison. To this part of the charge they

PLEADED GUILTY.—** Five years' Penal Servitude.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-701
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Not Guilty > unknown

Related Material

701. WILLIAM KING (40), ALFRED LANE (17), and JOSEPH FITCH.(22) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Robert Dobree, and stealing 3 diamond rings, value 40l., his property.

MR. PALMER conducted the Prosecution.

EDWARD CRADDOCK . I am salesman to Mr. Robert Dobree, jeweller and pawnbroker, 254, Strand—on Saturday evening, 2d May last, about two or three minutes after 10, I was in the shop, and heard the window break—I ran out and saw a man running about six yards from the window—I cannot identify either of the prisoners; I stopped to protect the window—I waited a few minutes until assistance came, and then saw King in custody of the fire-escape man—his hand was all over blood—I afterwards missed three diamond rings that had been on a card in the window, worth 40l.—I found this piece of flag-stone inside the window, wrapped in this piece of rag—it was used as a tool, not as a missile, pushed in; the window was very thick, substantial plate-glass, worth about 4l. or 5l.

CHARLES FRANCIS HAWKINS . I am a hackney-carriage proprietor and driver, of Verulam-street, Gray's Inn-road—on the evening of 2d May I was on a cab-stand near St. Clement's church, about two or three minutes past 10, and saw King and the boy (Lane)—King was standing exactly opposite Mr. Dobree's shop, against the window, looking in, and Lane on his right side—I saw King take up this stone and smash the window in with all his force—his hand went right through the glass—he then ran away past me; I ran after him; I was not close enough to see Lane do anything—my attention was attracted to the man who broke the window; he ran towards St. Clement's Church—he was ultimately stopped by the fire-escape man—Lane came up, and wanted to know what the fireman wanted with King—I had hold of him on one side and the fireman on the other—while King was running, he called out, "Stop thief!"

STEPHEN TAPSEE . I live in Westmoreland-street, City-road—on the night of 2d May I was in charge of the fire-escape near St. Clement's church between five and ten minutes past 10, when I heard some one sing out, "Stop thief!" and saw King running—I ran after him—he went up the Strand roaring out, "Stop thief!" and everyone made way for him—he ran down Norfolk-street, down two or three other streets, into Arundel-street—I came up to him—he said, "There he goes"—I said, "Yes, but you don't go from me"—I took him in charge, and gave him to a constable—Lane then came up and wanted to know what I had to do with him, and wanted me to let him go.

Lane. Q. Did you not say at the police-court that you could not swear to me? A. I said so because you had not those clothes on, but I said you looked very much like the man.

ALEXANDER SMITH . I live in Brook-street, Ratcliff—on the evening of 2d May, I was looking in at Mr. Dobree's shop-window—Lane and King came and stood alongside of me—I moved a little further down the window, and was just turning to go away, when I heard the smash, and saw King run up the Strand, and Lane ran to the back of St. Clement's church—I saw a

bundle, similar to this produced, amongst the jewellery—I saw King brought back.

WILLIAM NEWBY (Policeman, F 73). King was given into my charge by Tapsee in Arundel-street—I took him to Mr. Dobree, and then to the station—he said nothing, and gave no address.

GEORGE BRIMACOMBE (Police-inspector, F). On 3d May I was on duty at the police-station, Bow-street—in consequence of a message I received from King, who was then in custody, I sent for him into the charge-room—he there made this statement, which I took down in writing—(Read): "I want to tell you who was with me when the glass was broken in the Strand last night. It was a young chap who lives at No. 4, Old Pye-street, Westminster; he is about seventeen or eighteen years old, 5 feet 1 high, wears a pilot jacket with a velvet collar, a black cloth waistcoat with lappets on the pockets, cord trousers, a blue cap, and silk neck-tie, and Joe Frits"—I took it down Friz—"he is about twenty-four years old, with a white slop, cord jacket, and velvet sleeves outside. He has been a soldier, and lives in Ann-street, and is known to Sheen, of Westminster"—I understood by that, Sheen the constable—"we were in Downey's public-house, opposite the barracks, and they kidded me on to come up and beat the glass, and said if I was caught they would send me grub to-day and find me a mouthpiece, and as they have not sent me any grub it is nothing but right I should round upon them. Downey gave them half-a-crown before we started, and the stuff we got off was to be taken to him. I broke the window, the little chap whose name I don't know made a grab at the rings. He ran one way and I another, and Joe Fritz stood behind a lamp-poet when it was done. I was about half drunk when I done it. I get my living by selling papers, and can earn four bob a day at that Joe and the little one got a diamond ring last night-week from a pawnbroker's in the Westminster-road; it was worth 16l., and Downey gave them 4l. for that—the little one said, 'If this job comes off all right, we shall get some new togs, that is all'")—in consequence of that statement, I went to Westmimster, and saw Sheen, of the B division, and about 2 o'clock in the morning he handed Lane into my custody, in the Broadway—on our way to the station, Lane said, "I did not break the glass"—when I got to the station I found that his waistcoat answered the description that King had given, and the remainder of his clothing was new, the same as he has on now.

MICHAEL JOHN SHEEN (Policeman, B 272). I apprehended Lane about 2 o'clock on the 4th, in Pye-street—I told him he was charged with breaking a window in a jeweller's shop in the Strand, and likewise in the Westminster-road, and stealing some diamond rings—while taking him through Pye-street, some of his companions came up and asked him what he was taken for—he said, "Something about a pawnbroker's"—I said, "Remember I have not said anything about a pawnbroker's"—I took him to the Broadway, and handed him over to Inspector Brimacombe—about 3 in the morning I went to a lodging, No. 1, St. Ann's-lane, Westminster, and found Fitch there, in bed with six or seven others—I awoke him up, and told him he was charged with breaking windows and stealing jewellery in the Strand and Westminster-bridge-road—he said, "Breaking windows!"—I said, "Yes"—he said, "I should be a flat"—he got up and dressed, and looked about for his boots; there were six or eight pairs there, and a new pair of balmorals—I said, "Are those yours?" pointing to the new pair—he said, "No, mine are bluchers; perhaps I have left them in the kitchen."—we went down but could not find them—he said, "Never mind, I will go without

them, "and he did so—about 10 the same morning a female handed me a pair of bluchers, and asked me to oblige her by giving them to Fitch—I did so, and he said, "These are not mine, mine is a new pair"—I said, "Why last night you denied that the new pair belonged to you"—he said, "Well, I was half drunk, and I could hardly tell, but they are mine; these are my father's"—I know Lane and Fitch—Lane was dressed as he is now—I have heard the statement of the inspector—I have frequently seen Lane dressed as described by King.

The prisoners' statements before the Magistrate were read as follows:—King says—"I broke the window; that is all I wish to say." Lane says—"All I have to say is, that I plead guilty." Fitch says—"I have nothing further to say than what King has stated about the man buying the ring; it is all false. I was against the lamp-post, about eight yards from the shop, when King broke the window with a stone."

King's Defence. I am guilty of breaking the window in the Strand, but I had no property. I am very sorry; I was drunk at the time. I have sever been in prison before.

Lanes Defence. I was in Pye-street. King came and asked me to take a walk with him. I went, and he said he was going to commit a robbery of some diamond rings, and asked me to come. I said no, and I went away. He came again, and asked me to have something to drink; I did so, and got tipsy. He then said, "You had better come and get the diamond rings. I only want you to look out." I went with him, and when he broke the window I ran away.



11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-702
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment; Imprisonment > other institution

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702. WILLLIAM KING , JOSEPH FITCH , and ALFRED LANE , were again indicted for breaking and entering the dwelling-house of John Richards, and stealing 2 rings, value 27l., his property; to which


MR. PALMER conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN RICHARDS . I am a pawnbroker, at 102, Westminster-bridge-road—on the evening of 25th April, about half-past 9, I was in my shop—I heard a violent noise—a female spoke to me, and I then examined my window, and found it smashed to atoms, and I missed two diamond rings, value 27l.—the window was bent plate glass, a quarter of an inch thick, and would require great violence to break it.

ELIZABETH PAYNE . I am unmarried, and reside at 19, York-road—at half-post 9 on the evening of 25th April, I was passing Mr. Richards' shop, and I saw Fitch and Lane looking very suspiciously in the window—I heard nothing, but on turning round to look again I saw Fitch had broken the window, and he had his hand inside, and I saw the card in his hand as he was taking the rings off—I was the only one on the spot at the time—while I went in to tell Mr. Richards they both ran down the Westminster-road; one on the pavement, and the other in the road.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Did you call out? A. No; I had not the presence of mind to do so—it was Fitch's hand that was at the window—I saw him distinctly—I was told his name afterwards—I had never seen him before that night—I had a good sight of his face before I saw his hand—his side-face was towards me—the boy had not got the same clothes on an he has on now—they stood side by side—I was in the centre

of the two—I next saw Fitch at Bow-street station, and recognized him from nine other prisoners—Mr. Richards took me there—they told me they had some one on suspicion—I recognised him directly—none of the others were dressed like him—I can't say how many I looked at before him.

MR. PALMER. Q. Was the shop lighted at the time? A. Yes—I feel confident he is the man.

MICHAEL JOHN SHEEN (Policeman, B 272). On the evening of 25th of April, about half-past 8, I met Fitch and Lane on Westminster-bridge, going towards the Surrey side—I received some information on the Thursday before the second robbery, and afterwards apprehended Lane in Old Pye-street, about 2 o'clock in the morning, and Fitch in St. Ann-street, about 3 in the morning, upon both charges—the evidence I gave in the last case is correct.

Cross-examined by MR. GRESHAM. Q. I believe some time ago, at the police-court, you charged two persons with picking pockets, and the Jury did not believe you; they were acquitted? A. Yes; you have asked me that two or three times since, and I may tell you that those women are now suffering penal servitude for picking pockets in a church.

The evidence of George Brimacombe, as given in the last case, was read over. The prisoners' statements before the Magistrate was here read as follows:

Lane says—"I will speak the truth; what the young woman has stated about Fitch is untrue. He was sitting across the road, and it was me that broke the window." Fitch says—"What Lane has stated is correct. I am guilty so far as being in his company on that night, but I was a couple of hundred yards from him when he did it." King's Defence. They told me they had done it when they came back. I had nothing to do with it further than that.

KING— GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.

FITCH— GUILTY .†— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

LANE†— Confined Six Months, and Three Years in a Reformatory.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-703
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude

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703. RICHARD MAJOR(32), and WILLIAM HAWKINS(43) , Feloniously forging and uttering an order for the payment of 84l., with intent to defraud. MR. SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS WOOD . I am cashier at the Bank of London—a gentleman named Henley keeps an account there—this (produced) is one of our ordinary blank-form cheques—it bears the number of one of the cheques issued to Mr. Henley—it was handed to me on the 7th April last, to cash, by the prisoner Major, and, in consequence of something that occurred, I immediately made a communication to Mr. Marshall, the manager—I asked Major what he would have it in, and he said 70l., in gold and 14l. in silver—I saw Mr. Marshall address him.

MATTHEW MARSHALL, JUN . I am manager of the Bank of London, in Threadneedle-street—on 7th April, in consequence of a communication made to me by the last witness, I went to the front of the counter and spoke to Major, and beckoned him into my private room—I then said, "Where did you get the cheque?"—he said he had been requested to present it by a friend of his, of the name of Godfrey—I said, "Who and what is Mr. Godfrey?"—he said, "He is a ganger on the railway"—I said, "Why did not Mr. Godfrey present it himself?"—he said that he had been drinking, and did not like to come into the bank—I said, "There is considerable difference between the writing on this cheque and our customer's signature," and there was evidently some irregularity about the affair, and if Mr. Godfrey would not

come in we had better go out and see him in the street, and hear what he had to say—I also asked him to describe Mr. Godfrey's appearance, which he did very accurately—I then accompanied Major to the door of the bank, and I saw the other prisoner on the opposite side of the way, and observed that they recognized each other—Hawkins appeared to be about to walk off, but I went with Major across the road quickly, and said to him, "I want to speak to you about the cheque on the bank, which you have asked your friend to cash for you?"—he said he knew nothing about the bank, or about any cheque—I said, "Nonsense, you do, a cheque on the Bank of London"—he said no, he did not know anything about any cheque, and had never been in the bank in his life—I then said to Major, "This is Mr. Godfrey," and Major said, "Yes, it is"—we were all standing close together—Hawkins said, "My name is not Godfrey, and I know nothing about the man"—while I was hesitating what to do, and trying to catch the eye of a porter on the back steps, I heard Hawkins say to Major, "You managed that job very badly"—it was said in an undertone, but I heard it very distinctly—while they were denying knowledge of each other, I said to Hawkins, "You have seen the man Major, where did you see him?" and he said, "I saw him at Caunt's public-house this morning, and that is all I know of him"—I insisted upon their going into the bank, which they were not willing to do at first, and I sent for officers, and they were taken into custody.

Major. Q. When I said a friend outside gave me the cheque, did not you say, "Who gave it to him?" A. I would not swear whether I said so or not—it it quite possible I may have said it—you did not say it was given to him (Hawkins) by a man named Godfrey or Godby, because when I said, "Is this the Mr. Godfrey you were speaking of?" you said, "Yes," and Hawkins said he was not Mr. Godfrey—you gave me a very good description of Hawkins inside the bank—I looked out for a stout man, and saw one who recognised you—you did not tell me where he gave you the cheque.

WILLIAM THOMAS HENLEY . I am a telegraphic engineer, and live at 46, St. John-street-road, Clerkenwell—my offices are in Leadenhall-street—I keep an account at the Bank of London—I know Hawkins, he has been in my employment until about three months since—this cheque-book of blank cheques which I have in my hand, is one which is furnished to me by the Bank of London; it is a private cheque-book which I keep in St. John-street-road—this cheque is not in my handwriting, nor is it signed or drawn by my authority—to the best of my belief it corresponds with one of the counterfoils in this book—about the 6th of April, Hawkins called at my house in St. John-street-road—I was engaged at the time, and he was obliged to remain in one of the rooms a few minutes; in a room which communicates with the room in which this cheque-book was, and into which he had an opportunity of going while waiting there—I had drawn a cheque out of this book on the 3d—I did not use it again till the 9th, and then I noticed that the top cheque had been torn from the book—the counterfoil was left, but with nothing on it—the signature to this paper (produced) is my handwriting.

Major. Q. Do you know Frederick Godfrey? A. I do not—I have no recollection of a man named George Goodman supplying me with telegraphic ropes—Hawkins did not work for me in Africa—he has worked in Africa for others.

Hawkins. Q. Could not strangers who came in take out a cheque as well as I could, or anybody else? A. It was not in the room where strangers waited, it communicated with it.

MARY ANN HORROCKS . I am in Mr. Henley's service at St. Jobn-street-road—I know Hawkins—I remember him calling on 6th April, about half-past 10 in the morning—Mr. Henley was engaged, and he was shown into the front room—the rooms communicate with each other—I don't know how long he waited—I have sometimes seen the cheque-book lying about in the back office.

Hawkins. Q. Where was your master when I came to the door? A. In his bedroom, I believe—I told you he would be down directly—I should not have let you in if he had been out—I left you there for him to see you—I know nothing more about you.

GEORGE HENRY LIPSCOMBE . I am waiter at Caunt's, in St. Martin's-lane—I know Major as a frequenter of that house—I know Hawkins now; on the morning of 7th April, he came to Caunt's and asked for Sam—Sam was not there—a person named Godby was there, and he and Hawkins went into the parlour together, where Major was sitting—when Hawkins asked me about Sam, he said if he could only see this man he could get plenty of coin—I saw Major, Hawkins, and Godby together in the sitting room, and afterwards heard them talking about a cheque, about a signature—I did not see any paper—Major said, "I don't like the look of the signature"—he said he did not like going as it looked rather queer—Hawkins said, "You have got nothing to fear, it is only what I have worked for"—Godby said it looked rather hot—Hawkins and Godby soon afterwards left the house, and Major came to the bar and asked the barmaid for a screw of tobacco—he looked round and said, "This looks well; I don't like 'going,' never mind, I will go and chance it"—when he got the screw, he said, "This may be my last"—he then filled his pipe, and said, "lam going to run a great risk; they fancy they have got me for a mug"—I believe a mug means a flat; and he said, "As soon as ever I get the money, I'm off like a shot, and they will have to run like steam after me—I am to get 4l. for my expenses for getting the cheque cashed"—he said a man of the name of Godby had written a cheque for 84l., and he was to have 4l. expenses from him.

Major. Q. Have you known this Frederick Godby a long while? A. Not above twelvemonths—he is a time keeper, I think—I have always found him a respectable man—I was cleaning the windows, when Godby came and touched me on the leg, and asked me if I knew you, and I said, "Yes, only by taking the chair up stairs"—and you had done one or two jobs for me in shoemaking; then you all three went up stairs—you are not Sam, it is another tall man—on my oath I did not say, "I wish young Ben was at home, I would be off like a shot; I can't leave the place, he is out"—when you were talking about the cheque at the bar, I said, "Have you got it?"—you said, "No, but I very soon will have"—I had three months in prison last September, for the unlawful possession of a 10l. note—it was not for picking the pocket of Bob Travers—he could not swear I took it—it was put into my coat pocket, and they gave me three month's on suspicion—I don't owe you anything, I owed you 5s. once, and that I paid you.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. With respect to this 10l. note, although it was found in your pocket, did you know how it came there? A. No; I do not know it till this day—there was never any charge made against me besides that.

ROSE BRYAN . I am single, and assist in the bar at Ben Caunt's, in St. Martin's-lane—I know Major and a man named Godby—I remember them going to a room up stairs on 7th April—I also saw Hawkins there that evening—he went up stairs—Godby asked for pen and ink—I gave it to

him, and he took it up stairs—they ordered a pot of half-and-half—I afterwards saw the two prisoners and Godby come down together, and I served Major with a screw of tobacco after the other two went out—I heard him say that they would have to run like steam.

Major. Q. You have known Godby a long time, have you not? A. Yes; I believe he is a very respectable man—I had never seen Hawkins before that day—I cannot say how long you were in the house before Godby and Hawkins came in—I did not see you come in, you were there before they were.

JAMES BRETT . (city-policeman). In consequence of a communication made to me, I, in company with Serjeant Knight, went to the Bank of London, and took the prisoners into custody—Mr. Marshall said something to me, and handed me a cheque for 84l.—I said to Major, "Did you present this cheque for 84l.—he said, "I did"—I said, "Where did you get it?"—he said, "He gave it to me," pointing to Hawkins—I said, "When"—he said, "This morning"—I said, "Where?"—he said, "At Ben Caunt's, in St. Martin's-lane"—I said, "What were you to do with it?"—he said, "To bring it here and get it cashed"—I said, "Did he tell you what you were to get for it?"—he said, "Yes, 14l. in silver, and the rest in gold"—I said, "Did he come with you to get it cashed?"—he said, "He did, he sent me inside and he waited outside"—I said, "How long have you known him?"—he said, "I never saw him before this morning in all my life"—I said, "What is your name, and what are you?"—he said, "My name is Major; I am a comic singer at Caunt's, and I am a bootmaker"—I then turned to Hawkins and said, "You hear what he has to say about you, what have you to say?"—he said, "I never gave him no cheque;" and turning to Major, he said, "You know Fred Godby," or Godfrey, "gave it to you this morning"—Major said, "No, Fred Godby did not give me the cheque, you gave it to me and came with me here to get it cashed; Fred Godby was with us this morning up at Caunt's"—Hawkins then said, "I never forged no cheque; I can't read or write; it would take a good scholar to commit forgery"—at that time a gentleman from Mr. Henley's office remarked that Hawkins had done work for Mr. Henley, and he said, "Yes, I have bad cheques from Mr. Henley, when I was doing the telegraph from London to Dover"—they were then both charged with forging this cheque—this paper was found upon Hawkins—it is a certificate of character from Mr. Henley—I also found a pocket-book and some papers on him—I have endeavoured in vain to find Godfrey.

Major. Q. You found the address I gave you correct? A. Yes; the other officer came into the bank immediately after me.

JOSEPH COMBER KNIGHT . (city-policeman). I conveyed Major to the station—on the way he said it was a d—shame that he should be dragged through the streets for two such man as them—I said, "I can't help that; now you said at the bank that Godfrey gave you that cheque—who did give it to you; you have no occasion to tell me unless you please?"—he said, "That man there gave me the cheque," pointing to Hawkins—he was close to us—I should imagine he heard him—he also said that he was only to have 1l. for it—I have endeavoured to find the man Godfrey or Godby, but have not succeeded at present.

Major. Q. As I was going to the station, did I not say that George, the waiter at Caunt's, knew all about it? A. You told me that the waiter knew all about it, and that he said he would go, only Mr. Caunt was out of the way.

Major's Defence. I went to Ben Caunt's on this day, about twenty minutes to 1, and saw Godby and Hawkins there, standing on the kerb; Godby said, "Do you want to earn a sovereign?" I said, "Yes;" and I went up stairs with them, and they said they wanted me to take a cheque to the London Bank, and I was to get 14l. in silver and 70l. in gold for it; I took the cheque in on Godby's word, thinking he was a respectable man.

Hawkins' Defence. I mean to say that I never had anything at all to do with writing the cheque, or taking it, or nothing of the kind. I can't read or write, and I merely asked Godfrey that morning to write me out some copies of a certificate to take to a man named Lumley, in Leadenhall-street, and that is how I have been brought into a snare.

GUILTY of uttering .

MAJOR— Four Years Penal Servitude.

HAWKINS— Six Years' Penal Servitude.

FOURTH COURT.—Wednesday, May 13th, 1863.

Before Mr. Recorder.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-704
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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704. HEPZIBAH BURROWS ( ), was indicted for unlawfully endeavouring to conceal the birth of her child; to which she

PLEADED GUILTY . Judgment Respited.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-705
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > with recommendation
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

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705. SARAH WHITE(47), and ELIZABETH GULLICK(22), were indicted for unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. POLAND and ROWDEN conducted the Prosecution.

ELIZABETH WOODS . I am assistant to Mr. Hanwell, a grocer, of 12, Little Trinity-lane, City—on 4th April, at about half-past 5, the prisoners came to the shop, and asked for a quarter of a pound of beef, which came to 3 1/2 d—White put down a two-shilling piece in payment, and I gave her the change—she then bought a quarter of a pound of suet, and gave me 2d. for that—I put the florin in the till—there was no other there—my master took it to the station.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. How long did it remain in the till before you took it out? A. About half an hour—no one else had access to the till.

CHARLES HANWELL . I saw the prisoners come into my shop on 4th April, about 5 o'clock, and I saw them served with some suet—after they left I found a bad two-shilling piece in the till—it was the only one there—I afterwards gave it up at the police-station to the constable Jenkinson.

MARY ANN EVANS . I live at 20, Little Trinity-lane, at my brothers—on 4th April, prisoners came to the shop together, between 5 and 6—White asked for a half-quartern of gin, which came to 2 1/2 d.—she offered a florin in payment—I gave it her back, as I tried it and found it was bad—I told her she would get into trouble—she did not make any answer—there was a gentleman standing by, and I asked her to let him try it—she refused—she then paid with a good half-crown—I gave her the change, and they went away.

GEORGE EVANS . I was in my shop with the last witness—from what I heard, I watched the prisoners—they went into Mr. Dunham's, at the top of Trinity-lane, about sixty yards from me—they went a little further than Dunham's, then had some conversation together—White went on further, and Gullick went into Dunham's—I went in and gave him some, information—Gullick was there at the time.

WILLIAM DUNHAM . I am a grocer, of 1, Little Trinity-lane—on Saturday

4th April, at a quarter to 6, the prisoner Gullick came into my shop, and asked for two ounces of tea and a half pound of sugar—while she was being served by my wife, the last witness came in and spoke to me—prisoner gave a two shilling-piece in payment—I found it was bad—she said, "Is it bad?" and I said, "Yes"—I asked her where she got it from—she said from her mother—at that time some one brought White up to my door—Gullick said to White, "Mother; this is a bad two-shilling piece"—she said, "Is it? I had it from your father this morning in change for a sovereign"—I then gave them into custody—I gave the two-shillings I received from Gullick to the constable—it has my mark on it.

THOMAS JENKINSON (city-policeman, 491). On the 4th April, I was in Little Trinity-lane—I saw Dunham talking to Gullick—he handed me a florin, and gave them into custody—Gullick said she had got the florin from her mother—White then came up—Gullick said, "Mother, you gave me this, and he says it is bad"—White said she had had it in change that day from her husband; she had received a sovereign, and it was part of the change—I afterwards received, from Halford, the female searcher, four other counterfeit florins (produced)—I produce one received from Mr. Dunham, and another from Mr. Hanwell—White said she picked up the four florins along with the suet in a paper in Huggin-lane—there was a parcel of suet found, and it was about a quarter of a pound.

ANN HALFORD . I am a female searcher at Bow-lane Station—I searched the prisoners—I observed White take something from her bosom in the charge-room—directly she was outside the room she dropped a parcel—I picked it up, and found it contained two bad florins—I took her into the searching room, and found two more bad florins, twelve shillings in silver, chiefly sixpences, and 8d. in copper, all good, and some suet in the pocket of her dress—it was about a quarter of a pound—I found nothing upon Gullick but four duplicates.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . Of the two florins which were uttered, one is of 1853, the other 1859, and both bad—the four found on White are all bad—three are from the same mould as the uttering of 1853, and one from the same mould as the uttering of 1859.

The prisoners received good characters.

SARAH WHITE— GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

ELIZABETH GULLICK.— GUILTY .—Recommended to mercy.

Confined Three Months.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-706
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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706. JOHN HOGAN(40) , Stealing 9 lb. 4 oz. of copper, the property of Daniel Grant . MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS CLARK . I am a marine-store dealer, carrying on business at 5, old Boswell-court—on 22d April, about half-past 8, the prisoner came to me with the copper produced—a boy accompanied him—I asked him where he got the copper from—he said his employer gave it to him—I said I did not like to have anything to do with it, but if he liked to leave it until to-morrow morning, and get his employer to say he gave it to him, I would buy it—he gave me some address in Bear-street, Clare Market—the constable went there, but could not find him, and I gave him into custody.

SAMUEL PRIOR (Policeman, C 45). I was called by the last witness about half-past 8 on 22d April—I found the prisoner there with the copper produced—I asked him where he got it from—he said his employer gave it to him—he said he lived over in Union-street, Borough—I went to Bear-street—I could not find anybody there—I returned to the shop and took him into

custody—he said he lived at No. 7, Vere-street—that was a false address—he said at first his master lived over the water—before the inspector he gave the right name and address, Mr. Grant, of Pilgrim-square.

FREDERICK HOLMES . I am foreman to Mr. Grant, a printer, of Pilgrim-square—the prisoner was in his employment at the rolling-machine for six months—I have no doubt the copper produced is our property—it appears to have been out off some large pieces in rolling—it is merely waste and thrown away—I never gave him any leave to take the copper—I have nothing to do with it—I believe he had the idea that he had a right to take it—in the trade it is generally allowed as the perquisites of the rolling-machine man—the value is about 6s. or 7s.—my master is not here.

Prisoner's Defence. I can assure you I would not have taken it away, if I did not believe I had a right to it.


11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-707
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

707. RICHARD COLE(22), and GEORGE MATHEWS(19) , Robbery on Timothy Reuben Hill, and stealing 1 hat, a cigar-case, and a ring his property.

TIMOTHY REUBEN HILL . I was lodging at 127, Caledonian-road—I am now stopping at a coffee-house, opposite the Clerkenwell Police-court—at half-past 1 on Sunday morning, 13th April, I was in Pentonville-road—I saw Cole—I asked him the way to the Caledonian-road—he said he was going that way, and would show me, and we walked along together—I told him I was a stranger—when I got to No, 127, he asked me for something for showing me the way—I told him I had not any money; then he said you have enough to pay 2d. for a glass of beer—I told him I had not—then he pressed me and said he would stand two glasses of beer, and after a great deal of pressing I went—he led me up-some turning leading to a square—Mathews immediately ran up and pretended to fight—Cole asked me to assist—when we got to the top of the road, one of them, I cannot tell which, struck me on the breast, and knocked me on the ground—then they took my hat, cigar-case, and ring—Mathews put his hand in my pocket—I called out "Murder!" and he put his hand over my mouth, then they ran away, and I after them, crying, "Stop thief!"—I saw them about ten minutes after, when they were caught by a policeman and two other people—I am quite sure they are the two men—before they did this I bad taken no part whatever in the fighting.

Cole. Q. Who was with you when you asked me the way? A. No one—there were no females, I was walking by myself—I did not say at the station there were females with me.

Mathews. Q. Did yon not say at the station that I had one hand over your mouth, and one hand in your pocket? A. No; I said you put your hand on my mouth when I cried murder, and you also put your hand in my pocket.

ARTHUR WELLAND . I live at 213, Caledonian-road, and am an engraver—about 2 o'clock on the morning in question, I heard a rattle, and saw the prisoners running—I stopped Cole—he said, "If you do not let me go, I will give you something," and struck me on the side—I saw Mathews stopped by a friend of mine.

Cole. Q. How could I strike you; you had me down on the ground? A. You got me down, and I had you by the back of the neck.

CHARLES W. LETHAM (Policeman, N 550). I heard the cry of "Murder!" and "Stop thief!" and I sprung my rattle—I saw some persons come out of William-street into Leward-street, and then I met the prosecutor coming up

William-street—I ran into Leward-street and saw the prisoners running—I sprung my rattle—when I got to the bottom I found them on the ground, with the last witness and another man—one had stopped Cole and the other Mathews—I told them I should take them into custody for assaulting and robbing a man in Edward-square—Mathews said, "I only saw Dick run along, and I ran with him"—the last witness said, "His hat lies there"—immediately the prosecutor came up. he said, "That is my hat"—it was close to where the prisoners were captured.

Cole. Q. Did I have that gentleman on the ground when you came up? A. I believe that he was at the bottom, but in the scuffle I cannot exactly say—you had been scuffling for two minutes before I came up.

Mathews. Q. When you came up, was I not standing against the wall? A. No; you were on the ground.

Cole's Defence. I had been to a concert, and as I was coming home this young gentleman says, "Can yon tell me the way to Caledonian-road—I said, "Yes, I am going there, I will show you where it is"—there were three females standing with him, one had her arm round his neck and the other had hold of his hand. When going up the Caledonian-road, I asked him whereabouts he lived. He said, the first house over the bridge, and I took him to the door. He had been drinking, and was the worse for liquor. I asked him to give me something for showing him home. He said, "No; I should like to have something to drink." I said, "You cannot get anything to drink." He says we can get some ginger-beer. We went to get some, And turning round the square, I said, "You might give me a trifle for bringing you home?" He look off his coat and says, "I will give you some of this," and he took off his hat in mistake. We were both the worse for liquor.

CHARLES WETHAM (re-examined). The prosecutor had been drinking a little, but he knew perfectly well what he was about—he could run as well as I could—both prisoners were perfectly sober.

Mathew's Defence. I met Cole, and he says, "Come with with me;" we were both running down the street. He told me he had been out to fight I did not make any resistance. When the police came up, I said, "I have just met Dick." I was not at the place where this gentleman was at all.

RICHARD COLE— GUILTY †— Confined Eighteen Months.

GEORGE MATHEWS— GUILTY †— Confined Eighteen Months.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-708
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

708. CHARLES WILSON(19), and JOHN HENDERSON(21) , Stealing 110 collars, the property of Edwin Garrould.

MR. PATER conducted the Prosecution.

JOSEPH RUSHBROOKE . I am assistant to Messrs. Garrould and Co., Edgeware-road, linendrapers—on 2d May, I purchased a parcel of goods of Messrs. Hill, Eagle, and Co., which I left at Messrs. Leafs, in Old-change—the parcel contained 110 cambric collars, value 8l. 18s. 9d.—I left them about 12 at Messrs. Leafs, and returned for them between half-past 12 and I—they were then gone—the parcel (produced) is the property.

JOSIAH THUROUGHGOOD . I am a constable in the employ of the Great Northern Railway—on 2d May, I was with another constable in the City, and saw both prisoners crossing Gresham-street, from one part of Wood-street into the other, towards Cheapside—it was then ten minutes or a quarter past 11 in the morning—I was induced, from what I saw, to watch their movements—I followed them along Wood-street and Cheapside, through Bow Church-yard and Bow-lane, and into Watling-street—near the end of

Old Change they looked round; I stood on one side to avoid being seen, and then lost sight of them—in about eight or ten minutes I saw them at the top of Cheapside, coming from the direction of Old Change—Wilson was carrying a parcel under his arm—Henderson was walking by his side, talking to him—they walked along Aldersgate, and turned up Barbican, towards Finsbury-square—I saw then two police-constables, and, from information I gave, the prisoners were taken into custody—Thomas Jones was with me.

Wilson. Q. Did you see me steal the parcel, or do you know who did steal it? A. No.

Henderson. Q. How long might be the time from when you saw us in Wood-street until you lost sight of us in Watling-street? A. More than thirty minutes, I dare say—you were hanging about a good deal—you attempted to steal some goods from vans prior to that—it was five or eight minutes after I lost sight of you until I saw you again—when I met you at the corner of Cheapside, I followed you—Wilson carried the parcel all the way—I did not see you put a hand to it, but he was showing you it—when you were apprehended in Barbican, the parcel was taken from Wilson.

THOMAS JONES . I am a watchman in the employ of the Midland Railway Company—I was with the last witness on duty in the City, on 2d May, and saw both prisoners in Greeham-street—I have heard his evidence, and it is correct.

Henderson. Q. You lost sight of us in Watling-street? A. Yes—I met you again at the corner of Cheapside—Wilson was carrying the parcel.

JOHN TOTTINGHAM (city-policeman, 173). I apprehended the prisoners—I asked Wilson where he had got the parcel from—he said, "From the City"—I said, "Where in the City?"—he said, "Old-change"—on going down Redcross-street, he said, "You must take the parcel"—I searched the prisoner Wilson, and found a comb, a knife, a purse, and 7 1/2 d., not relating to the charge—Edward Barter, who was with me, assisted to take Henderson to the station.

The prisoners statements before the Magistrate being ready, they both said:—"I wish it to be settled here."

Wilson's Defence. I was in the City on 3d May, and as I was going towards Old-change, looking after a situation, a gentleman asked me to go to Leafs and fetch a parcel left for Mr. Jones. I said I did not mind. I saw him go down Old-change and go into Leaf's, and he came out with the parcel, and gave me directions to take it. I was going to ask the constable the way, and he charged me with stealing it I was going along Barbican, and the policeman took ma I gave him a straightforward account When at the station-house they opened and found it was collars, and they were going to send two men round the City. I said, "I will save you the trouble; they came from Leaf's, in Old-change." Going along, I handed the policeman a bit of paper. That paper was at the station-house, and when I was at Guildhall I wanted that piece of paper produced, bat it could not be brought up.

JOHN TOTTINGHAM (re-examined.) I did not take any paper.

Henderson's Defence. The policeman came and tapped me on the shoulder, and asked this man what he had got there; then he said I must come to the station. I am a stranger to this gentleman. I swear he never saw me steal these things, and never saw them in my possession.

CHARLES WILSON— GUILTY . †— Confined Eighteen Months.

JOHN HENDERSON— GUILTY . †— Two Years' Penal Servitude.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-709
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation
SentenceImprisonment > other institution

Related Material

709. GEORGE CHARD(15) , Burglariously entering the dwelling-house of William Taller, and stealing 1 hand kerchief, the property of Robert Lucas.

ROBERT LUCAS . I live at No. 40, Praed-street, and occupy the front kitchen—at ten minutes past 4 on the morning of the 7th April, I found the prisoner in my room, underneath the bed—I felt somebody feeling over my head, and that roused me up—it was not light—I got up, and saw him under the bed, and went up stairs—I saw a constable coming along the street, and I called him—we then searched the house, and found the prisoner in the back coal-cellar—I saw him searched—the pocket-handkerchief produced belongs to me—when I went to bed, it was in my coat-pocket, by the bedside.

Prisoner. Q. Did you not ask me to come down there about a fortnight before? A. No—I had seen you previously about the streets, but I never spoke to you.

GEORGE SPACE (Policeman, D 149). I was called by the last witness, and I found prisoner concealed in the coal-cellar, behind the door—I took him to the station-house, and searched him—I found a pocket-handkerchief and two keys—I tried the keys at 140, Praed-street; one fitted the street door, and the other the parlour door—the prisoner did not say anything to account for his being there.

Prisoner's Defence. One of those keys belongs to my father. I had been away from home for three months, because of my father illusing me. I supported myself in the best way I could. I took out papers for the prosecutor that he ought to have taken about six weeks ago. He asked me if I had anywhere to lodge; there was another boy with him; he said I had better not come down then, but come some other night. His master will not let the other boy come, and he keep him away. The two work together in the paper shop. The prosecutor has been sent away.

ROBERT LUCAS (re-examined). My master has not kept any one away that I am aware of—if anybody had been asked to come, my master would let him come—I have not been sent away—the shopman took the business, and I now work for him.


Recommended to mercy.— Detained Three Years in Middlesex Reformatory.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-710
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

710. JOSEPH RAMSEY(42) and RICHARD HOLDEN(35) , Stealing 56 lbs. of glass, the property of Robert A. Gilson and another.

MR. ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES HANN (city-policeman, 360). On 4th April, at 7 o'clock, I was in Bridge-street, Blackfriars, near the premises of Messrs. Gilson—I was watching those premises—I saw Ramsey go in at the front-door at a little after 7 o'clock—Holden was standing close by—Ramsey came out again in five minutes—Messrs. Gilson's place is at the corner of William-street—there is an entrance from Bridge-street, and a side-entrance from William-street—Ramsey came out at the side in William-street—he then went into Tudor-street, which is the next street, and I followed him—when he saw Holden he held up his finger, and both went off the pavement into the centre of the street—they were in conversation a short time, and I then saw Holden put his right hand into his waistcoat pocket, and pass something over to Ramsey, who went back into his masters premises in Bridge-street—Holden stood opposite the gas-works, at the corner of Dorset-street—I followed Ramsey to his master's premises; he went in, and remained about four or five minutes,

and he brought oat this parcel (produced) under his arm—here is also one parcel of broken pieces which were on the top—when he came out he had two square pieces of glass under his arm, outside of those—he then went into Tudor-street, and he there met Holden—he handed to him the two square pieces as well as the parcels—Holden then turned up Dorset-street, and Ramsey went back in the direction of his master's premises—I followed Holden—just before we came to Salisbury-square I stopped him; he then had the parcels under his arm—I asked him what he had got in those parcels—he said, "What is that to you)"—at that time I had an officer in uniform with me—Holden turned round, and when he saw the officer, he said, "Well, you can see I have got glass outside"—I said, "I suppose you know what is inside; where are you going to take it to, and where did you get it from?"—he said, "I got this parcel from a man of the name of Joseph, and I am going to take it to a man in Fleet-street"—"Joseph" is Ramsey's Christian name—I asked him what the man's name was to whom he was going to take it; he said he did not know—I asked him, "Does the person you are going to take it to, know your name?"—he said, "No"—I said, "How will that person know you, or you know him"—he replied, "Joseph said he would know me by the two pieces of glass under my arm"—I then told him it was stolen property, and I should take him into custody for receiving it, knowing it to be stolen—I took hold of him by the collar, and he immediately threw down this (the broken pieces) with the expression, "Take it, you b—"—a great deal of the glass was so broken—I then took him to the station—I afterwards weighed the glass, and found it was 56 lbs.—it is all plate-glass—I found 4d. on him—after lodging him in the station-house, I went and took Ramsey—I asked him if he had taken out any glass that morning, and he asked "Why?" and made, two or three remarks—I then told turn, "I have stopped a person of the name of Holden, with some glass in his possession, which he said you gave him to take to a person in Fleet-street"—he said, "No; Holden is a customer of ours, and he has been here for some glass this morning"—I then said, "I shall take you into custody for stealing that glass; you are here on the premises nearly an hour before your proper time unknown to your employers—he then closed the door in William-street, and went up stairs, and just as he was passing through the passage he fell down in a fit—I took him to the station, and searched him, and found 1s. and 1d.—afterwards, while going to the police-court, I told him I saw something pass from Holden to him, and I asked him what that was—he said, "It is a half-sovereign in my snuff-box"—I examined the snuff-box, and I found the half-sovereign with the snuff.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. (For Ramsey). Q. Was not this glass very conspicuous? A. Yes—anybody could see it—he did not tell me when I found the half-sovereign in the snuff that his pockets were in holes, and that was why he placed it there—nor did he tell me that he usually earned money there.

Cross-examined by MR. COLLINS. (For Holden). Q. When did you state that conversation you have given, is to-day the first time? A. I do not think I said it before the Magistrate—I was examined the same morning as the conversation took place—I do not know the time I first recollected that important circumstance.

ROBERT ANDREW GILSON . I am a glass-merchant, of 25, New-bridge-street, in partnership with other persons—Ramsey was in our employment for two years, or two years and a half, as under cutter—he had no business to be at the warehouse on that particular morning before 8 o'clock—I

recognise Holden as having had three or four parcels of goods—I should think the whole would amount to about 5l.—Ramsey is not the man who would have served him with that description of glass—he would be in the same warehouse—he had no authority to sell glass at that time, or in this way, to that man—he sold glass occasionally; but at that hour in the morning, he had no business whatever—he would not sell that description of glass without positive instructions either from myself) or from the principal cutter—it was left to him to sell that kind of glass.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Do people pay deposits sometimes when they come for glass? A. Occasionally—the head cutter is a man known as "Robert" in the warehouse—he is not here—if Robert was not there, this man would not cut this glass unless he received positive instructions—the head cutter had no authority to ask the prisoner to cut for him—I do not know any instance when this man has cut for the head cutter—we have heard since that the prisoner was in the habit of coming and doing up the office earlier than usual, but he had no authority from us—if we had known it, we should have stopped it.

Cross-examined by MR. COLLINS. Q. Since Holden has been committed, you have served his wife, have you not? A. Yes, with several parcels.

MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Is this glass out in the usual way for plate-glass? A. If any one came to us with an order for that glass, we should not cut it out of stock, because we have to pay 2s. 4d. a sheet, and we only get 2s. 4d. a sheet, and as the waste in cutting would average 15 per cent, we should be losers by the transaction—unless we had some small pieces we should have to get it—this was not in small pieces.

The prisoner Ramsey's statement before the Magistrate put in and read: "I met Holden on Saturday morning between 7 and 8 o'clock; he told me he wanted to buy some patent plate. I inquired what size; he said 13 by 8. I said, 'How many do you want?" he said, 'Two dozen or two dozen and a half.' I then left him, and went into the warehouse, and cut twentyeight. I asked him if he was going to pay; he said, 'Oh yes, by all means.' I said it would come to 22. He said he had a 5l. note, and would get it changed, and believing him to be an honourable man, I cut the glass and put it in a paper parcel, and delivered it to him with a promise that he would be in in half an hour, and pay for them. By that time our clerk would be there—I left him and went back to open our warehouse, and a police-constable came and took me into custody. I have nothing more to say."

RAMSEY— GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.


Holden was further charged with having been before convicted of felony at Liverpool, on the 6th April, 1860; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY.— Confined Eighteen Months.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-711
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > unknown

Related Material

711. HANNAH MARIA WESTWOOD(19), and THOMAS JONES (25) , Feloniously forging and uttering an order for payment of 4l.; to which

JONES PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.

MR. COLLINS conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM STOUT . I am an outfitter, residing at Nos. 1, 2, and 3, Victoria-place, East India-road—at half-past 1, on 24th April, the female prisoner came into my shop—there was an elderly woman with her—she laid this "advance note" down on the counter, and said she wanted change or the money.

The note purported to be for 4l., one month's wages, in favour of G. H. Morton, payable three days after sailing of the ship 'American Eagle,' captain

Murgart, and signed "A. Massey, 6, Upper Smithfield," and enforced, "Q. F. Martcon," the prisoner said she was the wife of the man, and was going to sail on the following day for New York in the American Eagle, which was lying in the London Docks—I saw that it was a forgery, and gave her into custody—she said that she was going to take passage in the same ship.

Prisoner. I told him afterwards that I was not married, but was living with the man, and that he gave me the note in payment, as he owed me money. Witness. She said so before the Magistrate—I do not remember it before.

Prisoner. I was in debt; I did not want clothes; it was given me by the man; I did not know it was bad, and I wanted money for it.

ISAAC EACELL (Police-constable, 493 K) I took the female prisoner into custody on the 24th April—she and her mother were together, and she said her mother had nothing whatever to do with it—that her husband had given her the note, and she was not aware it was forged; but that she thought it was a genuine one; that an excise-officer had cashed a note previously for her, and he had said if he had the money he would have cashed this one; that she came into Mr. Stout's shop to present the note, but previously to that she had been in two shops for the same purpose—she said Morton was a mate on board the American Eagle—afterwards she told me that she had been living with him since June last.

THOMAS BIRKS . I am a member of the firm of Messrs. Massey and Co., of Upper East Smithfield—the signature to the note (produced) is not in the handwriting of my firm—the note is not in the proper form—we shipped part of the crew for the American Eagle—we did not ship the male prisoner.


11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-712
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

712. MICHAEL LYNCH(27) , Stealing 1 watch, the property of Edward William Meredith, from his person.

MR. COLLINS. conducted the Prosecution.

EDWARD WILLIAM MEREDITH . I am a pocket-book maker, residing at 6, King's-square, Goswell-road—about 9 o'clock, on 5th May, I was standing in Barbican—there was a band of music, and several people there—I saw the prisoner there, and some one with him—the prisoner was on one side of me, and another man on the other—I felt a clutch at my watch, and I put my hand to my watch, and as I was taking it out from my pocket, I saw the prisoner's hand there—I saw the further end of the chain in his hand—I had hold of the watch a moment, but not sufficiently to prevent him taking it—he then ran away—the other man was pushing against me when the prisoner was taking the watch.

Prisoner. Q. Did you lose eight of me? A.. I did; you were not standing down a court shortly after I lost my watch.

COURT. Q. How long was it after you lost your watch before he was apprehended? A. Twenty minutes, at the outside—there were not more than two persons standing close by me—I saw prisoner's hand—I am sure he is the person—I saw the watch in his hand when he ran away, and the chain hanging from his hand.

ISAAC WISEMAN (City-policeman, 126). On Tuesday, 5th May, I was on duty in Barbican—from information I received, I went into Crown-court, Golden-lane—I saw the prisoner run across the court, and try to jump over the wall—I caught hold of him—he said, "I have just jumped over the wall and ran up the next street"—I searched him, and found 8s. 6d.—he refused to give any address.

EMMA TAYLOR . I reside in Barbican—on 5th May, I saw a band of

music—I saw the prisoner standing near the prosecutor, and saw him take something from his left—hand pocket—I ran after him, and called, "Stop, thief"—some woman came up, and put one hand round my neck, and the other over my mouth, and using a very foul expression, asked me, "What do you call out for?"

JAMES MITCHELL . I am a cloth—worker, living at Lower White Cross-street—I was in Barbican on 5th May, and saw the prosecutor there running after the thief—I saw the prisoner, and caught him; a woman then came collared me, and a man in shirt-sleeves came and hit me down, and knocked my hat off—the prisoner got away, and I saw him run up a yard—I am quite sure he is the man—I held him some time until they hit me.

GUILTY .—He was further charged with having been before convicted of felony at Clerkenwell, on 4th February, 1861; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY.**— Five Years Penal Servitude.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-713
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

713. GEORGE WINDEBANK(29), PLEADED GUILTY to forging a receipt for 8l. 8s. 6d., with intent to defraud Henry Lindsay Antrobus, his master; also, to two other similar indictments.— Confined Eighteen Months.

OLD COURT.—Thursday, May 14th, 1863.

Before Mr. Justice William.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-714
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

Related Material

714. SARAH WIGLEY(25), was indicted for, and charged on the Coroner's Inquisition with the wilful murder of her new-born child.

MR. POLAND conducted the Prosecution, and MR. COOPER the Defence.

GUILTY of endeavouring to conceal the birth .— Confined Six Months .

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-715
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > no evidence

Related Material

715. STEPHEN THOMAS PIERCE(18), PLEADED GUILTY to indecently assaulting Ellen West.— He received a good character.— Confined Six Months.

He was also charged with a rape upon the said Ellen West, upon which MR. SLEIGH, for the prosecution, offered no evidence.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-716
VerdictNot Guilty > non compos mentis

Related Material

716. HARRIET GOODLIFFE(31), was indicted for the wilful murder of James Goodliffe . MR. TAYLOR conducted the Prosecution.

CHRISTIAN HENRT KAHLER . I am a shoemaker, of 1, Blossom-place, Norton Folgate—on 10th April last, the prisoner, her husband, and three children occupied the second floor of that house—the youngest child was named James, and was 8 or 9 months old—I saw the child after it was picked up—it was not then dead—it died About 6 that night—I had seen the prisoner three times that day—the first time was about 9 in the morning—they were going on very noisily, and I went up and saw her standing near the window with the child in her arms—her husband was with her—she was halloing out in a very senseless state, so that people were coming round to see what was going on—I stopped there till she was quiet, and then went down—about half—past 1, I was called up again by the little boy and girl—I found the prisoner standing in the doorway—I caught hold of her, and she dropped the child to the ground—I thought she was out of her mind—the little boy, ten years old, took the child from the ground—the husband came and took her on his knee, and I went down again; between 3 and 4 o'clock I went up again, hearing a noise, the poor woman was screaming—I saw her standing near the window—the upper part of the window was down, and she had her bands raised like, hanging onto it—the

child was then gone—I stayed and took care of the prisoner till the policeman came and took her in charge—I afterwards saw the child outside the house.

Cross-examined by MR. F. H. LEWIS. Q. Had you noticed a peculiarity in her manner for two or three days previous to this occurrence? A. Yes; that led me to form an opinion as to the state of her mind—when first she came to the place she was too quiet, and afterwards she was halloing out and screaming in a senseless way—I thought she was quite out of her senses—she was kind to the children.

ANN DREWITT . I live opposite Mr. Kahler's—on 25th April, about a quarter to 3 in the afternoon I saw, as I thought, a parcel come out of the window—it fell on to the stones—I went to pick it up, and it was the prisoner's child—I gave it to her husband.

GRANGER TANDY . I am a surgeon, at 2, Spital-square—on 25th April I was called in to examine the child—it was very much injured, as if from a fall—there was a fracture at the base of the skull—those injuries were the cause of death—I did not see the prisoner then—I had seen her two days before—I then believed her to be of unsound mind, from her general incoherence of manner and demeanor——I think she was then in a condition to know the difference between right and wrong; but her state was such that it was in progress to a condition in which she would not know what was right and what was wrong.

HENRY FORDHAM (Policeman, H 197). I took the prisoner in charge—she was up stairs sitting on the side of the bed—she said, "Policeman, take me, I done it"—on the way to the station she said, "I did it through distress."

JOHN ROWLAND GIBSON . I am surgeon to the gaol of Newgate—the prisoner has been about ten days under my care in the gaol—I consider her to be of unsound mind.

Cross-examined by. Q. I believe you have had a great deal of experience in cases of homicidal mania? A. I have—it is not at all an uncommon thing, after the act of homicide has been committed, for the mind partially to recover itself—I do not consider that she has completely recovered her mind yet—she is still of unsound mind.

COURT. Q. When she came under your care was the disease of her mind to such an extent that she might mistake right for wrong? A. I think it was.

NOT GUILTY on the ground of insanity. Ordered to be detained during Her Majesty's pleasure.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-717
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

717. ELIZABETH HENLEY(19) , Feloniously setting fire to the dwelling-house of the guardians of the poor of St. George's-in-the-East, certain persons being therein.

MR. POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN HUGHES . I am master of the workhouse of St. George's-in-the-East—I have known the prisoner from time to time for about two years—she has been chargeable to the parish, and an occasional inmate, the last time was in November last—on 17th April she was in the workhouse—I received some information with regard to her conduct, in consequence of which I ordered her to be removed into the vagrant ward, between 9 and 10 in the morning, apart from the rest of the inmates—I told her it was for her refractory conduct—the vagrant ward is in front of the workhouse—it is part of the same building, but has no communication with the other inmates—the prisoner was alone there during the day—I saw her there about half-past 10

in the morning—there was a quantity of straw there; about a truss, or from that to a truss and a half, and there are nine cots, divided by wooden partitions—about seven in the evening I heard a cry of "fire"—I went to the vagrant ward and found the straw all in flames—the prisoner was in the fore-court in front of the ward—she was not locked in the ward—we got the engine to work, and subdued the flames—the cots on which the vagrants lie at night were burnt—they are made of timber, fixed to the flooring—the partitions were very much burnt and charred—a beam that runs across the ceiling was also burnt a little and charred—the windows were all cracked by the heat of the flames, over the vagrant ward is the assistant matron's room—the parish is under a board of guardians.

MARY ARMSTRONG . I am a widow, and live in Fenton-street, St. George's—on the night of 17th April, about 7 o'clock, I was at the workhouse-gate, and while I was standing there I saw the prisoner several times—she was standing at the door of the vagrant ward, inside the iron railings—the door was not shut—I was close to her—she said, "I will do it, and I will go and do it now"—she did not say it to anybody in particular—I looked through the iron railing, and saw her move her hand as if she was striking a lucifer—I did not see the match—she then put her hand under the straw, and I directly saw the straw all in flames—I went to the lobby of the workhouse, and informed the gate-keeper.

JANE BOBINSON . I live at 5, Chapel-street, St. George's—on the evening of 17th April, I was at the workhouse about 7 o'clock—the prisoner came into the lobby, where I was sitting at the time of the fire—I said to her, "How came you to do this?"—she said, "I set it on fire because they kept me two days without my food"—she said she got a lucifer match from a little girl outside the gate, but she did not think it would be like that, she thought it would go out.

ROBERT LYNE . I belong to the Fire Brigade—I was at the workhouse at the time of the fire—I saw the prisoner when she was in custody—I asked ber as to the cause of the fire—she said she set fire to it with a match, and would do it again if they kept her without her tea.

WILLIAM STAPLETON (Policeman). I took the prisoner into custody—I said to her, "You have done a nice job for yourself now"—she replied, "I would do it again if I had a chance."

Prisoner. He ought to have cautioned me to be careful what I add, instead of making game of me as he did.

GUILTY .— Six Years' Penal Servitude.

FOURTH COURT.—Thursday, May 14th, 1863.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-718
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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718. JOHN DOWD(24) , Breaking and entering the warehouse of Henry Stear, and stealing 5 pairs of boots, 51 yards of velvet, 2 clocks, and other articles. Second Count, for receiving the same.

MR. LAXTON conducted the Prosecution.

ARTHUR ELLIOTT (Policeman, G 13). On 5th April, between 7 and 8 in the rooming, I went to the prisoner's lodging, 12, Vernon—street, Gray's-inn-road—he was there in bed—I was in plain clothes, but I told him I was a sergeant of the police, and had come to search for stolen property—he said, "What description of stolen property are you come for?"—I said, "Velvet, boots, chains, and other things"—he said, "You will find nothing of that here;

before you look about, I should like to know where it was stolen from"—I said, "From 5, Gutter-lane, City"—he said, "I have not been in the City for months past"—I replied, "You were watched there on Thursday last"—that was two or three days before I apprehended him—he then said, "Yes, I was there on Thursday"—I then searched the room, and on the mantel-shelf I found this brooch, and this pair of woman's boots on the floor (produced)—the boots had been worn a very little—there were the marks on them by which they were identified—on finding them, I said, "How do you account for the boots?"—he said, "I took them out of pledge on Tuesday last"—some short time after, he said, "I bought them from a man who was hawking boots in Petticoat-lane;" and a third time he said, "I am poor man, and have a wife and child; I will tell you the truth; they were given to me in a public-house by the person that committed the robbery; if you get me off this I can take you to the public-house, and point out the parties"—I said, "You had better tell the Magistrate that; if you do not I shall."

Prisoner. Did I not say, "If there is any stolen property you had better look?" A. No—you did not point out anything in the room, because I kept you in bed until I searched the room—there was no resistance to my searching—at the station I did not call you on one side; you sent for me—I did not say to you, "Now I know you are not the thief from information I have received, and if you act honestly with me I will try to do my best to get you off"—there were witnesses present at the time—you told me you believed that the party who committed the robbery lived in Whitechapel-road; you could not tell me more, but if you were let out you could take me—I did not tell you, if you would be a man, I would try and get you off—you did not any anything about a man who had a bundle, nor anything about four men—you said there was a great number of men in the public-house—I believe you said something about a man named McCarthy, but you could not tell me where to find him, unless you were liberated, and I did not pay any heed to it—you did not tell me that he owed you 4s.6d. four months ago, and gave you the boots to pay for it—I told you I should not listen to anything farther you had to say—at the Mansion House you called me three or four times, and I said then I would not listen to you—you did not tell me there were three other men with you at the time you received the boots—you said you did not know the man that gave you the boots, but you could tell where he lived—that was when you went to me to come to the cell door—I did not ask you to write a note privately, I said if you had got any statement to make you had better nut it down in writing, and send it to the Inspector, and he would hand it to me—I do not know whether you described a man to any other officer; you did not in my hearing—I did not hear anything about his wearing a "wide-awake"—when you called me to the cell door you kept whispering through a kind of wicket, and I cannot say what you told me—you called me several times, and I told you over and over again I would not listen, and you had better write down any statement you liked to make—I did not send a policeman to you—I never told you I had information of a man James Holden—I do not know a person of that name—I did not say I had been to his place, and he had removed—I did not say I had been to his mother's house; I bad to a person who gave the name of Church.

WILLIAM GARDNER (Policeman, A 426). I had been watching the prisoner—the first time I watched him in Gutter-lane was on 2d. April—I met him in Barbican, and followed him—he went to Gutter-lane and passed up

and down the front of Mr. Stear's premises—it was then between 6 and 7 in the evening—he stopped about seven or eight minutes—I watched him again on Saturday night, the 4th—I met him then in Whitecross-street, St. Luke's—he went down in front of Mr. Stear's premises again—that was about 7—he was looking about, and then walked away, and I missed him at about the post-office—I was with the other officer when the prisoner was taken into custody—I assisted to search the premises—on the 9th April I went again and searched—the prisoner's wife had then left, and the room was locked up—I then found the two chains (produced) concealed in the chimney—half a brick had been taken out, and there was a hole that you might put a couple of hen's eggs in—I produce a waistcoat similar to one I have seen the prisoner wear—it was found on the premises where the robbery was committed.

WILLIAM WICKER (City-policeman, 50). On 21st March I was on duty in Gutter-lane at a quarter-past 2 in the morning—in passing No. 5 I saw a rope hanging from the first-floor window to the pavement; the window was open—I entered the premises by a ladder, and getting through the window, I then found the rope was attached to the counter—I found also that two doors had been forced open, and two desks broken open, and the warehouse appeared to be in great confusion—that was not Mr. Stear's warehouse—I did not observe his, which is on the ground-floor—I entered the back room on the second floor; the door had been forced open and a desk broken open—I believe it is Mr. Henry's room—I did not find the waistcoat produced—these premises are let out in warehouses.

CHARLES HARPER . I am porter to Mr. Stear, a commission-agent of No. 5, Gutter-lane—he occupies the ground-floor of the front basement—Messrs. Ellis & Co. occupy the back room on the second floor, Mr. Henry the second-floor back, and Mr. Wood the second-floor front—I locked the doors safe on Friday evening of 20th March—the boots produced were then on the premises—there might be about thirty or forty pairs; I did not count them, they were in stock—I believe there were five pairs missing in the morning—I believe there was also some velvet stolen—there are some things we could not and have not missed—there are two chronometer clocks—I know the boots by the mark on them; it is an eagle and a crown—some one appears to have got in through a flap on the next door—it is in a partition between the two houses, both doors being close together—the flap is left unbolted at night—the front doors were all locked safe in the morning; they must have concealed themselves inside, and then got out of the first-floor window by the rope—the windows were all safe down when I went away—the premises are in the parish of St. Peter, Westcheap.

OSWALD COLES . I am clerk to Mr. Henry Stear, of 5, Gutter-lane—on 20th March I left these premises at about half-past 6—there were about six dozen pairs of boots in stock of the description produced—in the morning I found five pairs of boots, two clocks, a piece of velvet of about forty yards, and eleven yards from another piece, were missing—there were no chains lost from our premises.

HENRY ALEXANDER . I am a commission-agent, of No. 5, Gutter-lane—my warehouse was on the second-floor back—on 20th March I left the premises locked up—I had a parcel of sample chains, and also some brooches in stock—in the morning I found the place had been entered; I missed ten brooches, three dozen chains, a dozen pins, and some other articles—I am certain that the chains produced are two of the parcel of chains—the brooch I cannot swear to, not having seen the parcel opened; it had just arrived

from Paris—two were left, those had portraits on them, but they are of the same material, and to the best of my belief this was part, but I cannot swear to it.

The prisoner made a long rambling defence, in the course of which he stated that a man named Carter had owed 4s. 6d. for some months, and that he met him and he gave him the boots in payment; that he believed the man James Holden had committed the robbery, but that the police-sergeant (Elliott) had got him of, and tried to fix the charge on him (prisoner). He also accused the sergeant of improper intimacy with Holden's mother.

GUILTY of receiving .— Confined Eighteen Months .

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-719
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

719. THOMAS SULLIVAN(18), and JOHN FINCHLEY(17) , Robbery on George Barlow, and stealing a piece of paper from his person.

MR. PLATT conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE BARLOW . I am a traveller, residing, in Francis-street, Brompton—on 14th April, at 1 o'clock in the morning, I was walking in Great Queen-street—I was attracted by a number of persons looking at some young men who were apparently fighting—I stopped to look—I had not done so half a minute when somebody came up and knocked my hat off—I cannot swear who it was; there were eight or ten persons round me—I was going to pick up my hat when Sullivan struck me a blow on the chest, and knocked me on my back—I am sure it was him—when I was down he was on top of me, with some others—I felt some one's hands over my person, and a parcel I had was taken out of my coat pocket—it was a large accountants' bill that I had got to certify—I am certain I had that before—I lost nothing from my waistcoat pocket—they all got up and ran away as the policeman James Castle came up—I cannot swear to Finchley.

Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. What brought you out at 1 o'clock in the morning? A. I had been on business as far as Blackwall, and returned to my employers to Kingsland, to give up the money I had taken during the day—I left Kingsland soon after 11—I called on a friend in Leigh-street, Red Lion-square—I had no refreshment—I had a glass of ale when I came out; I think I had had two glasses of ale during the day—this matter only took about a minute altogether—I should think there were a dozen people; some were looking.

JAMES CASTLE (Policeman, 129 F). I was on duty in Great Queen-street at the time mentioned by the prosecutor—I saw the prisoners near where two men were apparently fighting—there were others with them—I saw the prosecutor come up—I saw Sullivan strike the prosecutor on the chest and knock him on his back; Finchley fell on top of him—there were several others standing round—Sullivan and Finchley threw themselves upon him—I went up to assist the prosecutor, and the prisoners ran away—I did not see whether they had anything when they were over him—Sullivan ran down Wild-street, crossed the road three times, and ran into a house, No. 6, on the second-floor—I took him into custody there—about an hour after I went into the same place and found Finchley there, and took him into custody—I am sure these are the two men who knocked down the prosecutor.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you never lose sight of him? A. No; the prisoners were about seven yards before me—they were running as hard as they could, and I ran after—when I took Finchley he was in bed.

Sullivan's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follow:—"I have nothing to say, except I admit assaulting him, but I did not mean to rob him."

Finchley says:—" I was not there at all.

Witnesses for Finchley.

MARGARET DAWES . I live in No. 6, Wild-street, and know Finchley—I remember when he was taken into custody—I saw him in bed at 12, or a quarter-past—I took a pitcher of water into the room—I do not know how long he had been in bed—he did not go out after that.

Cross-examined by MR. PLATT. Q. What makes you remember it was the 14th? A. I could not remember whether it was the 14th; it was the same day—I am the master's sister; he does not keep the house—he occupied two rooms in the house—I clean the place for my brother—my brother is the prisoner's master—my bedroom is in the front, the prisoner's in the back; there is a passage between—I am sure it was 12, or a quarter-past, when I went in with the water—I did not watch his room; I did not he down at all—I was in an up stain room—I did not go down stairs until the prisoner was taken out of the room—we have a clock in the house; I did not notice exactly whether it was 12 or a quarter-past—the house is not far from the place where the robbery was committed; not so much as a hundred yards—I was not asked to go before the Magistrate—I was down at the court, but I could not get in to answer; his master was there—he is here.

COURT. Q. Is yours a lodging-house? A. No; the rooms are let out at so much a week—they are tidy, respectable, hard-working people who live there—I am not married.

MR. BEST. Q. Could he have gone out that night without your noticing it? A. He might; I would not be certain of that.

COURT. Q. Where were you when the policeman came to take him? A. In the next room to his—I did not hear the charge on which he was taken.

THOMAS DAWES . I am the prisoner master—I was not at home that night—I do not know what time the prisoner went to bed.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you not what is called a fighting man? A. I was once; I am not now—I am not the landlord of this house, and the brother of the last witness—since this occurred I have removed—I was not talking and drinking with the prisoners a short time before this took place—I will swear I was not in their company—I was not tipsy—I was with my brother-in-law.

COURT to JAMES CASTLE, 129 F. Q. When you took Finchley into custody, did you see the girl? A. I did; she was standing by the bedside in the room—I said I should take him into custody for being concerned, with Sullivan, in knocking a man down and robbing, him an hour ago.

THOMAS SULLIVAN†— GUILTY .— Confined Fifteen Months.

JOHN FINCHLEY.**— GUILTY .—John Finchley further charged with having been convicted of felony at Clerkenwell, on 7th October, 1861; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY.— Four Years' Penal Servitude.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-720
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

720. JOHN COX (17) , ROBERT JAMES GARDNER(19) , and THOMAS BARNETT(17) , Feloniously breaking and entering the ware-house of William Sproston, and stealing 5 coats, a hat, and other articles; to which COX and GARDNER


MR. ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS PATTER (City-policeman, 575). On Thursday night, 16th April, I was on duty in Lower Thames-street—I went to Mr. Sproston's ware-house

in Love-lane—I saw Barnett coming in a direction from the ware-house—I could see him in the lane when I entered it—I was about ten or twelve yards from the warehouse—another—constable stopped the prisoner—I then went to Mr. Sproston's cellar-door; there was a hasp and padlock on it—the lock was broken—the lock was in such a position that no one could open the door from the inside—the lock appeared to be all right—I found Cox and Gardner in the warehouse; they could not get out until I released them—I found one concealed under a bench, and the other under a desk in the counting-house—five coats, and other things, had been removed—I took them into custody.

MARY ANN YOUNG . I am a servant, living at 10, Love-lane, just opposite Mr. Sproston's cellar—on 16th April, about a quarter to 10, I saw all three prisoners there; they were under the window of our house—I went down the lane, and when I came back Barnett put out his head from a corner of some steps which led to our house—I went up the steps and rung the bell, and he whistled and went down the lane—I saw the officer stop him, and bring him back to the cellar—I lent the officer a candle to go down into the cellar, and I saw the other two brought out.

JAMES SPROSTON . I am a fish-salesman, of 24, Love-lane—on 16th April, I saw the cellar locked up at half-past 4 in the afternoon—my counting-house is in the cellar—there was no communication with any part of the house—the coats and other articles (produced) are the property of myself and my brother.

CORNELIUS MEAGHER (City-policeman, 579). I stopped Barnett about fifteen yards from the cellar—when I first saw him he was about five yards from the cellar.

Prisoner Defence. I left my mother's at 8 o'clock, and went to Duke's-place, to a man who owed me money; then I went down to Whitechapel, about 9 o'clock; I went down Philpot-lane about twenty minutes past 9, and I crossed over, and went down Love-lane, and then the officers touched me on the shoulder, and asked me where I was going.


John Cox and Thomas Barnett were further charged with having been before convicted of felony, the former on 23d February, 1861, at Lambeth, and the latter on 2d July, 1862, at Sowthwark; to which they severally


Four Years' Penal Servitude each.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-721
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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721. JULIUS SEILKE(29) , Feloniously forging and uttering an order for payment of 5l . MR. HENRY PALMER conducted the Prosecution.

The evidence was interpreted to the prisoner.

ROBERT FRUHLING . I live at 14, Charles-street, Hampstead-road—I am in the habit of having my letters addressed to 123, Euston-road—I wrote to my brother in Brunswick on the 29th March, to send me some money—I did not receive any answer until Friday in last week—in consequence of that letter I went in search of the prisoner, and gave him into custody on Saturday afternoon—I charged him with forging my name to a bill of exchange, and receiving the money and keeping it—he forged my name to the receipt of the postman as well—it was a registered letter—when I charged him, he said, "What do I know?"—I caught hold of him—he said if I did not let him go, he would pay me for it—a policeman came up directly afterwards—I went daily to the Euston-road for letters—the prisoner was there—it was a hairdresser's—I mentioned I was going to write a letter to my brother in Brunswick—I said, "If a letter comes, just receive it for

me, and keep it until I call"—I said I expected a sum of money in the letter from Germany—I did not authorise him to open it—I said, "Will you take it in when it comes, and sign the receipt?"—that was said in the presence of the prisoner—he wrote home to my brother, and said I was very ill and could not write, but the money was all right.

Prisoner. Q. Did you not authorise me to sign your name? A. No—I was arrested two days before the letter came—I have since learned when the letter did come.

MR. PALMER. Q. What did the prisoner say when you accused him of robbing you of 5l.? A. He first denied, but afterwards confessed it, and said, "I shall get twenty years if you do not let me go."

WILLIAM SEYMOUR . I am a letter-carrier, and live at 11, King's-place, St. Pancras-road—on 1st April, I went to 123, Euston-road, with a registered letter, from the North London District office—it was addressed to Mr. Fruhling—I asked for him, and prisoner answered to the name—he said he was the person—I gave him the letter, and he returned me the receipt—I did not see him sign it.

HENRY ROITTIE . I am clerk to Messrs. Heine and Co., merchants, in this city—on 1st April, the bill of exchange produced was presented, I believe, by the prisoner—I made him sign his name, and put his address at the back of the bill—I then accepted the bill, and made it payable at our bankers, in order to enable him to get the money—the bill is endorsed, "R. Fruhling, 123, Euston-road, N. W."—he did not have the money from me.

Prisoner. Q. Did I not say I could put my own name as well as Fruhling's? A. I have no recollection of it—I do not think you said so—I asked you to endorse it in the belief that you were Fruhling; if I had known you had not been, I would not have acknowledged the signature.

COURT. Q. You would not have taken the signature of any person but the payee? A. Certainly not; and when I saw the man hesitate, I asked him to put his address.

THOMAS EVERSON . I am a clerk at Messrs. Smith, Payne, and Co., the bankers—the bill of exchange produced was presented on 1st April—I have no recollection who presented it—it was paid.

ROBERT FFUHLING (re-examined). The signature to the bill of exchange it not my writing—I never authorised prisoner or any other person to sign it—I never got a farthing of the money—I did not know the bill had arrived until I had a letter afterwards from my brother.

Prisoner's Defence. The prosecutor, when he came out of prison, was much vexed that I should have kept the money. He could not have received the letter, because he did not come to 123, Euston-road. If I had not been authorised, I would not have received and taken this letter. I am quite innocent.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-722
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

722. ALFRED COLLIS(32), PLEADED GUILTY to forging and uttering an order for payment of 7l., with intent to defraud. Confined Twelve Months.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-723
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

723. HENRY JENNINGS LEDELL(32), PLEADED GUILTY to stealing 2s. 6d., the moneys of his master, Robert Kerr.

The prosecutor stated he had been robbed during some years by the prisoner to the amount of 1,000l. Confined Eighteen Months .

NEW COURT.—Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, May 13th 14th, 15th, and 16th.

Before Mr. Baron Channell.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-724
VerdictMiscellaneous > unfit to plead

Related Material

724. In the case of SAMUEL ROBINSON(25) , charged wilful murder of Charlotte Hayes , Mr. John Roland Gibson, the surgeon of the gaol, deposed that the prisoner was of unsound mind, and unable even to challenge a Juror. The Jury found him insane, and unable to plead. To be kept in custody till Her Majesty's pleasure be known.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-725
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

725. ANTONY RAUDNITZ(23), was indicted for unlawfully obtaining on credit, within three months of his adjudication of bankruptcy, divers goods, with intent to defraud.


JOHN WRIGHT . I am one of the ushers of the Bankruptcy Court—I produce the proceedings in bankruptcy against the prisoner and Brandice—the petition of adjudication is dated 9th December, 1862, and it is filed on the 9th—the adjudication was on 10th December; it is signed by Mr. Hassall, the registrar—I find a declaration of insolvency on the proceedings—the date of that is 9th December; it is signed by me.

MICHAEL ABRAHAMS (re-examined). I am the solicitor for the assignees—I acted before that as solicitor for the petitioning creditor—I prepared the petition for adjudication, and attested the signature—I find my signature here on the attestation—I also attested the signature to the insolvency, and saw the prisoner sign it.

Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. Is there any order to prosecute by the Commissioner in Bankruptcy? A. Yes; it is on the proceedings, and is dated 21st March.

GEORGE ROUSE DYSON . I am a woollen manufacturer, of 8, Lillypot-lane, Cripplegate—I know the firm of Brandice and Co., of 6, Bread-street—the prisoner was a member of that firm—I have seen him—I sold the firm a parcel of goods in October—this (produced) is the invoice—I sent the goods by a porter to 6, Bread-street, and have got their receipt—I have two bills of exchange signed "B. Brandice and Co."—this is the one given in respect of the goods mentioned in this invoice—I do not know who the other gentleman at 6, Bread-street, was—I had one transaction with the firm previously; I then saw the prisoner, and had conversation with him as if he was a member of the firm—the value of the goods I sent was 138l.—I have seen similar goods, some which I have reason to suppose are the same, at Naylor and Clapton's, in Addle-street.

NICHOLAS DEFRASSE . (Through an interpreter). I am in partnership with M. Desdier, at 9, Place de l'Etoile, Paris—we have traded with the firm of Brandice and Co., established in Paris and London, and I have seen the prisoner in those dealings, at the house of Mr. Reynard, the agent—we supplied them with goods to the amount of 2,751 francs, and sent the goods to Mr. Reynard, for Brandice and Co., who gave their names for the invoites—I did not know that the defendant was a partner of Mr. Reynard's, but when Brandice said that he had not cash to pay the invoice at that time, which was about£300, the defendant put his face in his hands, and said nothing—we have not been paid the amount about which Raudnitz was speaking—the second affair was on 2d or 3d November—I never had any

conversation with Raudnitz till I came to London—the goods were not packed for any particular market, nor for exploration—the first time I saw Raudnitz he said that he was innocent—I said if he was innocent he must make a declaration that he was bankrupt, and make a declaration against Mr. Brandice—it was about 5th December that I saw him in London; the day the declaration of insolvency was signed; the first Wednesday in December—I then petitioned the Insolvent Court—the amount of debt stated in the petition of adjudication was due at that time—when I saw Raudnitz he said that if I would take champagne with him he should be very happy, and I saw directly what sort of a person he was.

MOSES VALICH . (Through an interpreter). I am a silk merchant in Paris—I have never seen the prisoner—on 20th November I sent out certain goods, which were packed, value 3,871 francs—this (produced) is a piece of the silk, and there is the invoice, with the number of the pieces and the measurement—I made out this invoice myself, at the time of the transaction, and it was sent with the goods—I have had no account of them.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you enter that invoice? A. One of my clerks did in my presence—I compared the marks on the goods with the invoice, and sent it to Mr. Brandice—all pieces of silk have an initial.

M. DE CHAUNY . I deal in black merinos in Paris—in October last I sold 308 scarf shawls—these invoices (produced) was made out at the very moment—they are quite correct—they are in my book-keeper's writing, and were submitted to me afterwards—this black shawl (produced) is part of the goods I sent—I seized it in London, and received it back from the assignees—I never saw the defendant, I saw Brandice in the transactions—I have never been paid for the goods—the 307 shawls were the result of four transactions.

JULES BERNARD . (Through an interpreter). I live in Rue de Clery, Paris—on 23rd and 30th October I supplied merinos and flannels to Brandice and Raudnitz, amounting to 702l. 10s.—these (produced) are the invoices—I have never been paid, but they gave me two bills on the Bank of London, which Mr. Abrahams has.

Cross-examined. Q. Are these the invoices you gave at the time. A. Yes; they are the production of my book, and I made the sale—I do not know the prisoner.

JOHN AUGUSTUS FREDERICK MARTI . I carry on business in Paris with M. Salbouran—I know the house of Brandice and Co.—I sold them boots about seventeen or eighteen months ago—the last times were 18th November, 20th November, and 26th November, 1862—I sold them more than 18,000f. worth—the two last sales amounted to 2,000 pairs, value 15,000f. to 20,000f.—I have never been paid for them—the bills were dishonoured—some were accepted, some not—these (produced) were accepted.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know the prisoner? A. I have seen him twice at Paris—he came to my house with Brandice in November, I think—it was before these sales.

EUGENE ALFRED BUNOUT . (Through an interpreter). I am cash-keeper to the firm of Ogereau Freres, of Rue de Petite Ecuries, Paris—I have an interest in the firm—I know the firm of Brandice and Co.—we supplied them with leather goods for a long time—there were a great many transactions—the last was on 11th October, 1862—11,000f. is due at present.

Cross-examined. Q. Is that part of a balance resulting from transactions which took place before the prisoner was in partnership? A. No; it is since the partnership—the transactions with Brandice before his partnership were

the same thing, the sale of leather—we dealt with him a considerable time before February, 1861—we sold him leather—they were all sales—Mr. Brandice paid very regularly till the end of November, 1862—they ought to have paid us the 11,000f. at the end of October, but Brandice having purchased from us 9,000f. worth of goods, we extended the credit till the end of December—up to that last sale but one, all the payments had been regularly made—we dealt with Brandice to the extent of 180,000f. in fifteen months, and the last six months was about 30,000f.—we have been paid those large sums regularly—Brandice is about thirty-five yean of age.

THE COURT suggested that it would be necessary to show that the goods were obtained on credit within the jurisdiction of this Court. Mr. SERJEANT BALLANTINE contended that the offence was not completed till the goods were delivered in London, and that they were procured in London. Mr. GLFFARD reffered to 7 George 4, c 64, which enacted that when an offence was begun in one country and finished in another, the cast might be tried in either; and contended that if Mr. Sergeant Ballantine's argument was correct, there would have been no room for that statute. THE COURT, having consulted Mr. JUSTICE WILLIAMS, was of opinion that the Counts for obtaining the goods could not be supported, but that the evidence ought not to be excluded, as one Count charged the defendant with procuring his goods otherwise than in the way of trade, and that it was for the Jury to say whether the having the house in London and another in Paris was part of a system to obtain goods.

ALFRED DE ROUGET . (Through an interpreter). I am in partnership with my cousin as merchant in Paris—we supplied goods to the house of Brandice and Co. on 19th and 29th November, 1862, to the amount of about 9,500f.—we have not been paid for them—I did not know the prisoner before the bankruptcy—this (produced) is the first invoice—it is for merinos; the next was for flannels—we sold him these twenty-one pieces of merino on 19th November—I think the prices were 2f. 50c. and 2f. 60c, and the flannels 2f. 30c.—they came to 2,064f.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you speaking of the goods delivered in November? A. Yes, the 19th and 29th, I think—Mr. Froment has some of the flannels—I know he had flannels, but whether from our house or not I cannot say—the 21 pieces of merino measured 825 metres.

PETER MARTIN JULES LUNDY , (Through an interpreter). I am a silk merchant, of 3, Rue Montmartre, Paris—I supplied goods to Brandice and Co. on 22nd and 29th November—the sum total is 5,009f.—those are the only transactions—they were for silk pocket-handkerchiefs and cravats—I have received no money for them—some of them were found here in the beginning of December.

JOHN ANTOINE PASQUIER . I am a silk merchant, of 13, Rue d'Haute Ville, Paris—I know the house of Brandice and Co.—I sold them goods in October and November amounting to 9,200f.—I have not been paid.

HENRI JOSEPH SOYEZ . (Through an interpreter). I carry on the shawl trade at 80, Rue Neuve St. Eustache, Paris—I know the house of Brandice and Co. by name only—I supplied them with goods on 2nd December, amounting to 1,477f., but have never been paid.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you received your shawls back again? A. Yes, from the French syndic, but I had to pay for them—I advanced money on them on behalf of the bankruptcy—I got them back in France.

ANTOINE REYNAULD . (Through an interpreter). I know the prisoner—in March, 1862, I saw him at my house in Paris with his partner, Brandice—the prisoner told me that they had become partners—I was employed by

them as purchaser for the firm at the place in Paris where their business was carried on—when goods were purchased they went direct from the tellers to London, and not to my office first—I have a list of all the goods that were so sent—it is made from the consignment-book, and I am able, from my own knowledge, to say that it is correct—the document was made from the forwarding-book at each purchase—this paper (produced) is an extract from the books, of the amount of the purchases made—I have not brought the books from which it is extracted—I have brought the note-book—I know of goods being supplied by M. Valicb, M. De Chauny, M. Bernard, M. Ogereau, M. Lundi, and M. Monet—all the goods obtained in Paris were forwarded and sent off directed to London—I did not receive directions from Raudnitz to send the goods to any particular place—Brandice was principally in Paris—he addressed the goods—about 200,000 francsworth of goods were sent over to England in September, October, and November—the course of business was to address them, "B. Brandice & Co., 6, Bread Street, London"—these were marked "B & D," and there was a number on each case—I last saw Raudnitz in Paris at the end of November, he was staying there from eight to ten days with Brandice—I was not aware that Brandice & Co. were in difficulties—Raudnitz left Paris at the same time as his partner—Raudnitz said that they were going together to London to meet their bills that fell due on 30th November—they were both together when they told me that—they owed me 17,000f. at that time, and do so still—I came to England to the Exhibition in August—I went to their place of business every day—I was eight or ten days in London—Raudnitz told me that he wanted the goods for their own business, for orders which he had to execute, and he never asked except he had orders—I believe these two letters in German (produced) to be in Brandice's writing—they are dated 13th and 14th August, and this other also.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you employed by Brandice in the first Instance? A. I was his commissionaire before the partnership fur a year and made the purchases in the same way—the prisoner became a partner in 1862—I do not know whether he was then under twenty—they both told me that Raudnitz had brought into the concern from 60.000f. to 70,000f., and that he had got that money from his friends in Prussia—I saw but little of him during the eight or ten days he was at Paris—I was in my part of the house and he was in his—I went with him to make purchases—when he wanted me he came and asked me to make purchases—he did not want me to make purchases, he might have gone out with his partner; but he was not in Paris for business, he went to the house to take cognizance of what was going on—I have not spoken to the prisoner about allowing himself to be so much governed by Brandice—it was the house in London that had the money—the cash-box was there—my wife is here; I did not hear a conversation in which she said that Brandice kept the money and kept this young man without any—I was under the impression that he was as much master as his partner—I found that once or twice Brandice spoke rather too sharply, but in the main they agreed as partners, though they often had quarrels—I have known Brandice go from Paris to London twice a month to meet the bills—I do not know that he took large sums of money, as the money was in London: I have not known him go to London with money—I managed no part of the business but buying—I arranged with the sellers the terms of credit, how they were to be paid, and whether bills were to be given which were to be paid at the Bank of London, drawn by Brandice & Co.—the sellers drew direct on the buyers—the

purchases were always made in the name of Brandice & Co., and the sellers drew on the London house at thirty days' date, accepted by the house in Paris, and payable in London—Brandice went over to London about the 28th or 30th of every month—those were the days on which the bills were payable.

WILLIAM PIERSSENE . I am a clerk to Messrs. Pickford—they carried goods for the defendant, and I find in this book (produced) the signature "Brandice & Co."—these entries are not mine—according to the delivery-book, the goods were delivered at their place in Bread-street, and brought from the railway station, having come from Paris, by the marks B. D., which are in the books with consecutive numbers—our carman takes the signature of the person to whom they are delivered, in the right-hand corner.

COURT. Q. How do you get the number of the invoice in your books? A. This is our own invoice, not theirs—we get this, "To whom consigned," from the goods themselves.

Cross-examined. Q. Where does this entry come from ? A. It is copied from the invoice which comes from Paris—we have a house there, and our invoice comes from there—this is the invoice between our Paris and our London house—I know that this refers to the invoice we received from Paris, because I have compared it for the purpose of giving evidence—the entries are made from this invoice—another person makes the entry in the invoice-book from my eorrespondence.

WILLIAM GYPSON . I am cashier in the Bank of London—this (produced) is the pass-book between the bank and the firm of Brandice and Co.—it commences on 4th February, 1862; the account was opened that day with 219l.—there are two cash credits that day—the balance has been as high as 600l. but it did not last more than a day or two—we make up our accounts half-yearly in June—I cannot tell you the amount of the balance then—the first balance was on 14th July, 14l. 6s., 5d.; on 20th October, the balance was about 40l.; on 22d November it was 18s. 6d. only—the money was drawn out again as fast as it was paid in—there was no permanent balance, but altogether about 18,000l. passed through our hands between the opening of the account and 2d November; but if there was much as 100l. it was certainly drawn out in three or four days—these cheques are the prisoner's writing, and so are the acceptances on these bills—I do not know this signature "Brandice and Co." in Pickford's book, nor any of the signatures in these books.

Cross-examined. Q. I suppose you, like all other banks, take a signature from the parties who are to be authorised to draw? A. Yes—I have not got that book here, it was not mentioned to me, and it is constantly in use—we have the prisoner's signature in our books, but I did not see him sign—I never saw him write in my life, but these signatures are in the form in which he signed—I do not know who signed the cheques, but I supposed the signature on them to be the same as those in the books—Brandice had an account with us before the account was opened with the firm—the account was opened on 1st February, in the name of Brandice, and on the 6th it was altered to Brandice and Co., and the book has been altered—I do not think we had the account with Brandice a week, as the style of the firm was altered in three or four days or a week—I am not the person who made the arrangement with Brandice to open the account.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Should you have honoured a cheque drawn by either member of the firm? A. Yes—I have, the signature of each in my book—I believe this cheque signed Brandice and Co., to be Brandice's signature, and not the prisoner's—this draft (dated 18th November,

1862) is on the same account—no one was entitled to draw but Brandice and Randnitz—we first had Brandice's signature only while the account was in his name—(The witness was directed to fetch the book and the person in whose presence it was signed).

WILLIAM SINGER . I live at 37, Culford-road North, Kingsland, and am a commission agent—I was engaged by Brandice in January, 1862; he had an office in Earl-street, but we moved to Bread-street, in April or May, 1862—Brandice entered into partnership about the end of February, I think—goods arrived from Paris in September, October, and November, in that year—the first entry in this delivery-book is in my writing—this entry is in the writing of a clerk named Guttman—I know his writing perfectly—I only signed for goods which corresponded in the mark, the number, and the quantity—I saw the invoice prices of some of the goods, and some I did not—none of the goods so received were ever shipped—the invoices came by poet, and we have got invoices giving us an account of the prices—somewhere about 20th September, I deposited nearly fifty pieces of handkerchief for 25l., with Mr. Attenborough, of 11, Greek street, Soho, and on 20th October, 308 scarf-shawls, for 133l—I made those pawnings by order of the principal partner, Brandice, and paid the money raised to whoever was present, but mostly to Brandice—he was in Paris, but I used to pay it into the bank sometimes—I received no tickets—I remember a warrant for ninety dozen of champagne, which I got 60l. for, and on 28th November ten pieces of silk for 75l.—all the articles which came from Paris were deposited at Attenborough's—I know a person named Benedict Goodman—he was a commission-agent when I first knew him—he afterwards took a place of business in Budge-row—I sold him some goods by Brandice's desire in October and November, and when Brandice was not present, he wrote to me—the prisoner afterwards knew what I had done—I was obliged to tell him that I had received orders from Brandice to sell goods, and he said, "I shall write to Paris and ask Brandice at what price to sell them"—the goods were sometimes sold a few days after they arrived—the sales to Goodman were, I think, entered in the books—I don't know whether the sales to Attenborough were, because I was not book-keeper—I do not think the prisoner ever looked at the books—here are three receipts in my writing (produced), and three in the prisoner's—during September, October, and November, the firm was in difficulties every pay-day—I pawned goods for Brandice before he was in partnership, and I began pawning for the firm as early as March, but the goods were redeemed—I pawned for them at Attenborough's in March, 1862—I pawned these articles (Looking a ticket for silk for 8l.) with a man named Harrison—this represents goods which came from France—there are other people to whom goods were sold—I never obtained the invoice price in any one of these transactions—I pledged silk and French merino below cost price—this book (produced) is in Raudnitz's writing—this daybook contains an entry of the invoices—there was no separate invoice-book, but the invoices were entered in the day-book—a clerk kept it—it was kept in the office open on the counter—I do not see any of Raudnitz's writing in it—this item of "Savoy" is Joe Guttman's writing—I did not file the invoices, but they were put together in a pigeon-hole—two clerks made these entries, and I understand they are gone abroad—some of the writing in the bill-book is the prisoner's, and some mine.

Cross-examined. Q. How long had you been in Brandice's employment before the partnership? A. A month—I saw Raudnitz first, three months before the partnership—I am a German—Raudnitz used to come to business

at half-past 10 or 11 in the morning—when I got money by disposing of goods, I always paid the bills which were due at the Bank of India, where they were made payable—I did not give this pawn ticket to the prisoner after his bankruptcy, or at all—it has been left in the office—I know that receipt notes were sent to Paris for Brandice's signature—he sent them back again signed, and I received the money in London that those signatures represented, and either paid bills with it, or paid it into the bank—I made the sales by Brandice's directions, and until they were completed Raudnitz knew nothing about it, but I afterwards told him—he seemed to know very little of the business—he cannot speak much English, his English is very bad, like mine is—he had only been in London a few months when he went into partnership—I did not know when be came over that he was looking for a parner—he brought 1,500l. or 1,600l. into the concern, I saw the bill which was afterwards paid—he brought it in all at once—he lived at Kingsland—he had only two rooms—I cannot say whether he spent money; not in my presence.

MR. METCALFE. Q. If he brought 1,000l. or 1,600l. in bills, were they paid? A. They were discounted here, and some were given to Ogerau in Paris—I cannot recollect whether Brandice put his name to them—I did not see them afterwards—they were six week's bills, or a short time—they were not taken up and paid by the money obtained by the goods of the firm—they were given for goods which Brandice owed Ogerau before he was in partnership—Raudnitz brought the bills from Germany; they were bills of exchange, Austrian bank bills—he writes English as I write it—when I speak of written instructions, I mean letters directed to me, and which I opened—I did not keep them; they were not always about the business—the instructions were always written to the firm, but Brandice put my name inside, and said, "Mr. Singer, please attend to these instructions"—he gave me instructions what price I was to sell the goods at, and sometimes he said I was to sell at the best price, and sometimes for any price—I then said to the prisoner, "I have received a letter regarding these goods, what shall I do, Mr. Brandice has given me instructions to sell," not to pledge—some parcels I told Raudnitz I had instructions to sell to meet the bills—he said sell at the best price and meet the bills—those directions were sent to me, and not to the prisoner, because Brandice said that he came so late to the office, and very likely would neglect the business—I was to wait till Raudnitz came if he was not very late—when he came late I sold to meet the bills—I sold whether he came early or not, because sometimes he came and did not stop—if he came early, some he sold, and some the other clerk sold—I know of the defendant selling goods—I think he sold one parcel to Mr. Goodman—I sent to Paris for Brandice's signature, because very likely Raudnitz was not present, and I wanted the signature of the firm.

Q. Can you give me any one regular trading transaction entered into by the prisoner within the last three months? A. I know he sold a parcel of ladies' boots to a shipper in the course of September, for 50l. or 60l.—he made a profit by that transaction.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Did you sign cheques or receipts for the firm? A. No, not in the name of Brandice and Co.

RICHARD COPLEY . I am clerk-to Lavering & Merton, accountants, of King-street, Cheapside—they were employed by the prisoner in January to make up the accounts—I was at work with Raudnitz on his books—I went through them with him, and he explained all that he could—no transactions were referred to, of goods coming from Paris in August, September, and

October—he told me nothing about them—I found traces of those transactions in the day-book—the books are in the state in which they were then—I only went through the day-book, the invoices, and the banker's pass-book with him—he told me that a great many of the goods were pawned, but not the goods referred to in the day-book—I had a record of all the goods purchased, either from this book or the invoices, and made inquiry what had been done with them—he said that some were pawned, and some sold—I cannot tell what goods I was speaking of at that time—I was going to inquire about other goods, but had not time, as he was taken in custody—I had gone through all the invoices as to the purchases, and I had gone through the day-book—I questioned him with respect to the goods on the left side of this book, and he gave me, by way of answer, what is written on the right side—I wanted to see what was the state of the business—I learned what cash there was at the banker's, and what goods in stock—having ascertained that certain goods had come in, I questioned him as to them—I began with the first, and said, "What have you done with that?"—I only got down to March; that was all the information I was able to get before the prisoner was taken into custody—I have not got a list of the pawnings and deposits in any of the books—this (produced) is written by one of Sabouran and Martin's clerks—the facts stated in it are within my knowledge—I believe I got the original from the solicitor for the prosecution—Raudnitz has been over this with me—I asked him whether it was correct, and he said that they were all pawned that appear in this list—I made out this supplemental cash-book with the prisoner's assistance.

COURT. Q. Did you put down on the left-hand page of the other book the goods about which you wanted to inquire? A. Tea; and put the answers on the other side—I have no means of knowing whether what is on the left side represents the goods on the left—on one side it is called "leather," and on the other side it is "30 dozzen of boots"—I asked the bankrupt what had become of "these"—the left side is my writing—the other side is written by the prisoner.

MR. LEWIS. Q. What was the supplementary cash-book made from? A. Partly from the cash-book and partly from the pass-book—I made it chiefly by myself; the prisoner certainly assisted me in compiling it—I entered the sums from the passbook, and then asked him, "Where did you get that sum from?" and he said, "From Gider"—that does not apply to all the sums down here—I find an entry of 38l., received from Mr. Attenborough, on 14th March, and 14l. 10s. on 19th April; 100l. on 24th July; 60l. on 29th April; 180l. on 18th August; 25l. on 20th September; 133l. on 20th October; 60l. on 22d November; and 75l. on 28th November—I have not posted the aggregate—I got all I am referring to now from the bankrupt—I went over them with him—the amount of goods received from Sabouran, Marti, & Co. in September, is 93l. 10s.—(this book is called the "Goods Account")—in October, I find "Sabourin, Marti, & Co., 127l. 17s." and in November, 350 pairs of something, 100l. 15s.—the next item is 100 pairs of something, 33l. 11s. 1d.—the prisoner went over this book with me, and acknowledged the correctness of it—during the last three months I find the goods received from Ogerau in September, 190l., but nothing in October, November, or December—in the supplemental ledger, folio 6, I find Dyson's account for goods had in October, amounting to 138l. 1s. 4d.; at folio 4, here is Jules Bernard, October 23d, 61l.; and at folio 25, it is 1526f. 45c.; November 1st, 648l. 5s.; 709l. 5s. is the total of the two—at folio 24, here is De Chauny, September 22d, 73l.—I did not prepare a statement

of the total Amount of goods bought in November—the total of De Chauny's account in the last three months is 271l.—I find the figures added up in November, 3,814l. 9s. 5d.; in October, 2,552l. 19s. 6d.; and in September, 4,337l. 9s. 4d.; those goods are chiefly entered in the day-book, but not all—those are the totals from the invoices which were not in the day-book—in those three months I give, in rough figures, about 9,000l.—I cannot find out, from the books or from his explanation, where that 9,000l. worth of goods are gone to—he gave me no explanation.

Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. When were you first employed? A. On 24th January, 1863—I was what is called the bankrupt's accountant, from the Court of Bankruptcy, for the purpose of making up his accounts—the prisoner from time to time came to me to make up his accounts, up to the very day he was taken, which was, I think, 12th or 13th February—I attended the meeting, but was not examined before the Magistrate—I do not know of the prisoner's attention being called to any of the items I have been examined about until to-day—I do not know in whose writing this list of pawnings is; a copy of it came from Mr. Abrahams, the attorney for the assignees—it was copied by a clerk sitting at my right—I know that it if an account furnished by the assignees, of property which they have discovered to be at Attenborough's; it is about 900l.—these books are all made since the bankruptcy—a great deal of what I have been reading to-day has not been from the bankrupt's books or invoices at all—there are matters in my books which are original entries I found in no other books—I got some things from the bankrupt's own mouth, but I have no mode of distinguishing them from what I got from other sources—in this goods account, the leftside is mine and the right side the prisoner's writing, throughout the book—here is nothing on the right side in September, October, or November, only on the first page—these sales, on page 1, may be in London—this "Mount Brothers, London, leather" means a sale to Messrs. Mount Brothers, of London—the bankrupt made the entries which you see before you—I cannot say anything about them—I put the book before him, and said, "Tell me what you have done with the goods on the right-hand side?" and he returned me the book some time afterwards with the right side filled up—you will not find the same sort of thing on the left as on the right; they are not intended to be exactly opposite the same goods—my entries on the right side represent purchases by them, and it is intended that the bankrupt's writing on the other side should represent the same goods—I find here 2,200 pairs of boots sold in one lot; they might come in five or six lots on the other side—I do not recollect when he gave me this book filled up, or how long he had it—I had permission to have all the papers, and I went and asked for a book sometimes—I cannot at this distance of time remember where the information came from—I saw the bankrupt twelve or fourteen times—he was not examined before the Court of Bankruptcy, at far as I know, not after I knew anything about it—the 16th February was appointed for his last examination; he was taken in custody before that—I had been busy at the accounts from the time I was employed till he was taken, and that put a stop to the making up the accounts—in the supplemental ledger, folio 6, I find, Mr. Dison, 138l. 1s. 4d.—this "October 23d, union flannel" was in this book when I first saw it—this "G. Dison, Lilliput-lane," is the prisoner's writing; I have no doubt of it.

Q. I ask you the question because it does not look the least like the page which you say is his writing? A. I have no doubt it is his writing—the bankrupt told me that his partner Brandice had taken away the books—all

the information he gave me, showing the disposition of the goods, is on the single sheet in his writing.

MR. METCALFE, Q. Have you entered the contents of this paper in that book? A. Yes; the bankrupt was not present when I did that—I showed him the paper, and he said, "It is all right"—that was when I was preparing these matters for the Bankruptcy Court—I made this as a statement to be presented to the Court in his behalf—I cannot say whether he saw all the entries I made; he was by my side all the time—when it came in from the assignees a copy was taken in the office—I showed it to the prisoner, and it was upon that that he said, "It is all right"—he told me that Brandice went away on 7th December and took the books away with him, and he had not seen or heard of him since—I believe he said 7th December; I am sure it was some day before the bankruptcy.

WILLIAM SINGER (re-examined). Q. I last saw Brandice a few days before the bankruptcy at his private house—he then laid that he would call in at the warehouse in an hour, but he did not—I have not seen him since—some of the creditors from France came in search of him two days before the bankruptcy, but could not find him—these papers (marked B) are in Brandice's writing—this one is not—this (C) is the writing of a traveller, who was engaged by the firm—it is signed, "Brandice," but it is not his signature—this (D) has his writing on one side, and that of a former clerk on the other—the acceptances to these bills (E) are in the prisoner's writing—this, "B. P. 368" above the acceptance is the prisoner's writing—(Mr. Abrahams stated that "B. P." meant "Bill Payable")—I used to keep the warehouse-stamp, "Payable at the Bank of London"—this is the billbook; it is in different writings—here if the prisoner's writing in it in October and November—these cheques are drawn by the prisoner, and this bill (marked F) is accepted by him—I have been through Pickford's books, and find seven receipts in them in my writing, and only one in the prisoner's—in those seven instances the goods I signed for from Pickford's went into the bankrupts stock.

MR. GIFFORD. Q. Was it Brandice's directions that the prisoner should accept all bills payable at the Bank of London? A. Yes—I heard the directions given—the prisoner was at Ramsgate in July and August, during which time I forwarded to him all bills to accept, and returned them to London—he accepted all bills I sent down to him—I do not recollect when he first signed cheques—the greater part of the entries in the day-book are in a clerk's writing.

JURY. Q. Are there any entries in this day-book of the three invoices, with the signature of the defendant, which went to Goodman? A. Yes, they are entered here, and here are three invoices signed by the bankrupt.

COURT to RICHARD COPLEY. Q. Just look over the day-book carefully, in whose writing are the entries generally? A. Many of them, but not all, are in the prisoner's writing.

JOHN GORING . I am manager to Mr. Robert Attenborough, of Greek-street, Soho, pawnbroker—he is in the habit of lending money on the deposit of goods—I have a deposit-note in respect of 70 dozen pairs of gloves deposited on 14th March, last year, for 38l.—it is signed, "W. Regan."

WILLIAM SINGER (re-examined). All these deposit-notes (marked H) are signed by me—I deposited the goods by order of Brandice, signing these documents—this one is not my writing; it is one of the clerks', Mr. Guttman, by my direction, in consequence of what Brandice told me—Brandice gave me directions to pawn in his name—I do not recollect whether I told

the prisoner that I had pawned the goods in that name—when Brandice was in town, I gave the money to him, and when I brought it from Mr. Attenborough's I paid it into the bankers to meet the bills—the first goods I pawned were on 14 March, 70 dozen gloves, cash 38l.; April 4th, 229 dozen gloves 100l.; April 12th, 6 pieces of velvet, 16l.; April 19th, 18 ends of cloth, 26l.; and on the same day, 48 dozen knives and forks, 14l. 10s.; June 5th, 150 pieces of handkerchiefs, 90l.; July 24th, 200 pieces of handkerchiefs, 100l.; July 29th, 244 pieces of handkerchiefs, 60l.; August 18th, boots and shoes, 180l.; September 20th, 50 pieces of handkerchiefs, 25l.; October 20th, 300 scarf-shawls, 133l.; November 22d this warrant (produced), endorsed by the prisoner, for 90 dozen of champagne; November 28th, 10 pieces of silk, 97l.

MATTHEW MARSHALL, JUN . I am manager of the Bank of London—I produce the book with the specimen signatures of customs—three or four of us receive signatures—on February 4th the specimen signature of B. Brandice is written in full, "Benedict Brandice, importer of leather"—he refers to a customer of ours who knew him—on 6th February, the parties appear to have called again to change the account to "B. Brandice and Co.," and the signatures are "Benedict Brandice," and "Antony Raudnitz"—there is no fresh reference.

Cross-examined. Q. Was he introduced by a customer of yours? A. Yes—a gentleman of undoubted respectibility, whose name would be known in Court in a dozen places—we should refer to him, in the ordinary course; we always do—signatures are not witnessed, nor have I the remotest memory of the transaction—here are two signatures, and both are Brandice and Co.—I do not see that the ink is different—each partner must sign, and if A signed and said that B and C would come and sign, I should say, "Take care they do not draw any cheques till I have the specimen signatures of the drawers"—a blank would be left, and they would both appear under the same date—it does not follow that these two signatures wore given on the same day—we require the name of the firm to be signed by each partner—it is our custom to return the cheques with the pass-book—I have no means of knowing when the prisoner first began to draw cheques in the name of the firm—here is a specimen signature, "Brandice and Co.," in Raudnitz writing, and also with the signature, Antony Raudnitz—each of the partners wrote Brandice and Co.

MARCUS HECHT . I am a merchant in St. Mary Axe—I was employed by the creditors to redeem some goods from Mr. Attenborough—I redeemed some goods mentioned by Singer—this (produced) is a copy, of a list I made at the time, because the goods we took out were not given to the pawnbroker in the regular way.

JOHN GORING (re-examined). This is one of the gentlemen I gave goods to—they both came together with a van—I gave all the goods in one day—we got interest on them.

MARCUS HECHT (continued). A list was taken at the time of the marks on the silk, but there were no tickets on the shawls—we took the numbers the same evening in a book which is at home, but this is copied from it, and I have examined it with the book, but there were some differences, because the goods were not marked the same as what the pawnbroker gave—some marks corresponded. (The witness was directed to fetch the book.)

ANTONY MULLER . I am a commission-agent, of Guildhall Chambers—I knew the prisoner in partnership with Brandice—I think they traded as Brandice and Co.—my first transaction with them was on 10th October,

1862, when I bought of them 2,340 yards of flannel for 142l. 10s., 140l. of which I paid to one of the clerks in the counting-house, and 2l. 10s. to the prisoner, as I happened to see him—the receipt was, I think, signed by the clerk—on 28th October I bought 45 pieces of flannel, 2,071 yards, for 84l. 2s., but have mislaid the invoice—I have produced it several times before, but cannot find it now; but I have every particular of it written in my book—it was union flannel, grey—this (produced) is a copy of the invoice—the flannel was cotton and wool combined; it was very bad, and I could not sell it at all—I did not lose anything by it, but I could not get more than 8d. or 9d. a yard—I could only get 5l. or 6l. profit on the lot—on 19th November I bought of the prisoner 75 pairs of mens' boots, and 20 dozen pairs of ladies' boots—I gave 293l. for the lot—they were French; "Anglaise" means made in the English style—I got this invoice from the prisoner—they were mens' short boots with spring sides, very bad—I gave 5s.6s.—a pair for them, and for the others, 124 pairs at 8s., and 170 pairs at 7s. 6d.—the firm owed me 143l. for money lent, and I paid them with their I O U and 150l. in bank notes—I lend money sometimes—I did not charge them any interest—these goods were sent to me in French cases—they had been opened, and some of the boots had been unpacked—they did not come to me from Paris—I had not the curiosity to see from what French house they came—there was a large stamp inside—I do not know whether it was, "Sabouran, Marti, and Co."—that had nothing to do with me—I had three transactions with them—I had two parcels of goods, and was above 80l. loser by them—I sent them to Johnson, the auctioneer, four or five days afterwards, to be sold by auction, because I could not sell them, and wanted the money—that was the way I lost the 80l.—I do not think they are sold yet, but I think I shall be a loser of 80l.—I got an advance of 200l. on them—they were boots.

Cross-examined. Q. If I understand right this French case had been opened by the Custom-house people, looked at, and valued? A. Yes, that is the practice—they sometimes take the articles right out and put them on the counter—I could judge that a great many of these had been taken out—I only used to meet the brnkrupt's clerk; I very seldom saw one of the principals—the only transaction I had with the prisoner was I bought the boots of him on 19th November—in the transaction in which the balance was paid to the prisoner I had not seen him at all—these were the only two transactions in which I had anything to do with him—I lent the money on the I O U to the prisoner—it was about 16th or 17th August—I partially repaid myself to him by this consignment of boots—he was willing to do it, of course—I only discounted one bill, but I saw about 20,000 florins of bills in hit hands; bills drawn on German bankers, which have to run about a month or six weeks—they pass by endorsement—that was a few days before I went into partnership—I did not inspect the bills closely to see how many there were, but he told me that the amount was 20,000 florins, and said at that time that he was going into partnership—a great many of them were drawn on Austrian merchants—I cannot recollect whether they were good names.

MARCUS HECHT (re-examined). I received the goods from Attenborough's—I have entered the marks of all the silks—the shawls had no marks, they had small ribbons, blue, white, and yellow, instead of tickets—the marks contained in the book are the correct marks that are on goods—and from the same parcel—one is without a more number, same and the others are is one of the pieces (produced)—I had four more of the same quality,

taken from the papers in which the goods were wrapped—I can identify the goods in my book as those received from Mr. Attenborough—the first column is the number found on the papers in which the goods were wrapped, and this silk still bears the ticket—it is from these tickets that I have taken down the numbers—this (produced) may be one of the shawls, but when I received it there was a ticket on it—we sent the shawls back to the manu—facturer in Paris, Mr. De Chaumy—I have entered the marks—I have also Utrecht velvet entered here, and 12 pieces of cloth.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Have you entered the tickets you found attached to the articles? A. Yes; I have no means of saying whether they are the same, unless I see them with the tickets attached—the piece of silk I kept in my hands, and therefore I know it is the same, but the shawls have been to Paris.

JOSEPH HANANER . I am a commission—agent, of 47, Lime-street—I know the prisoner as one of the firm of Brandice and Co.—I commenced my transactions with them on 16th July, 1862, and continued selling on commission until about September—on 4th September, I sold outright, twenty doaen calf skins to Mr. Johnson, of Aldersgate-street, auctioner and leather seller—I commended selling to him for the bankrupt on 16th July, and on 23d July, I sold him forty—five dozen calfskins—there were nineteen transactions between July and September—I always consigned to Mr. Johnson to sell for the bankrupt—there were some sales, and some consignments—advances of money were made on the consignments—no interest would be paid upon the advance at the time—I have not got an account sale of those goods yet—he has not sold them all—no money has been obtained from Mr. Johnson, except the money advanced which is two thirds of the value—I have received nearly 2,000l. in advances from Johnson—I gave invoices to Johnson in my own name—I did not tell him that they were the bankrupt's goods—I did not make out a written statement to the bankrupt—I sometimes paid the money to Brandice, and sometimes to Raudnitz—I bought in what price I could get in the market, and then delivered to them whatever I had been able to get—when I get the sale account I shall deliver it—I gave them no account between myself and them——I have not for eight or nine years received any deposit note or memorandum from Mr. Johnson, when I consigned goods; I place great confidence in him—he does give amount sales, but I have not had one about the bankrupt's affair—I consigned the goods to Johnson for Muller, that he spoke of as going there, and also goods for Goodman, which, I believe, came from the bankrupt's—I keep books—I have no book showing an account between me and the prisoner.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you principally in the leather trade? A. Yes; I have been connected with it nearly twelve years—I sold to other persons for the bankrupt besides Johnson—I always get a profit in every transaction—I must explain; the goods sold in the market were overcharged in the bankruptcy, but they fetched a fair market price, which I can prove; I not only believe it, but am sure of it—I keep books, and can show what profit I made on all goods consigned to me, and the names of the people to whom they were Bold—Mr. Johnson deals largely in leather, apart from his trade of auctioneer—I have known him do so eight or nine years—his business as an auctioneer is principally confined to leather and shoes—I have had dealings with him for some years; and he, in all cases, furnishes me with account sales when the transactions are concluded, but in this matter the goods are not all sold—the assignees never applied to me—they were aware where the goods were consigned—I was examined before the Bankruptcy

Court before I went before the Magistrate; it was more than a weak before—I have made no calculation of what the balance was; nor have the assignees applied to me to know if there is a balance—the assignees can get these goods by paying it, if they are not sold—I get a commission on the consignment, and another on the sale—I get 2 1/2 percent.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Do you make entries of these transactions at all? A. Those that I have got here—I made no entries of the transactions with Johnson, but I told you before that I had the consignments, and the sales to him—I have not seen the invoices, but I have heard from the bankrupts that the charges were twenty per cent, over the market price—the prisoner said that they cost so much, and I said, "You are overcharged; you cannot get so much"—the bankrupt had to pay my commission out of the money I received for them—when I sold articles at ten, twenty, or it may be thirty per cent under cost price, he would have to give me a commission—it was 1 1/2 and 2 1/2—I do not know whether the goods came to me from the bankrupt immediately after he received them—I sometimes saw the cases.

JOHN HENRY KEANE . These letters were put into my hands, and I have made a faithful translation of them, which I hare compared with the originals.

WILLIAM SINGER (re-examined). This letter "C" is not the prisoner's writing—this one "D," is his, but the name is signed by a clerk—these others (marked K), are all in his writing, except the French one—I do no know that.

THEODORE HALSTED FOULGER . On 13th February, I apprehended the prisoner at Culford-road, Kingsland, on a warrant granted by Mr. Alderman Humphery—I found on him an envelope containing these two bills of exchange (produced), and this deposit-note for a diamond-ring, a duplicate for silk, for 8l., this gold watch and chain, sundry papers, a Napoleon, 1s. 1 1/2 d. in money, and a bunch of keys—I searched a chest of drawers in his room, and found two diamond studs, and in a drawer a quantity of papers and a gold watch—I gave the whole of the papers to Mr. Abrahams.

Cross-examined. Q. When had you been directed by the assignees to take him? A. On 13th February; I went at once; I knew him before.

MICHAEL ABRAHAMS (re-examined). Foulger gave me certain papers—I made a list of them—these letters are part of them, and are what I handed over to Mr. Keane, the interpreter—they have never been out of my possession, except to be translated—I received those marked B, C, D, G, and K, on February 14th—I did not receive these cheques—I also received some of the other documents from the assignees—the cheques marked "F," came in the banker's pass-book from the assignees—these bills of exchange I received from various creditors—I also found some invoices which are not marked yet, from the assignees, among the bankrupt's papers, and also these invoices, some of which are from the French creditors.

Cross-examined. Q. When were you first directed to prosecute Raudnitz? A. In February—I was instructed in December, by thirty creditors, representing debts to the amount of 13,000l., to investigate his affairs—some of them came over to England, and gave me personal directions, and others wrote to me—I have a good deal of business in France—I am solicitor to the French Consulate, and have a good deal of business sent to me—I did not, as early as 10th January, contemplate prosecuting the prisoner—I believe not—I cannot fix precisely the day, because the creditors wished to form an opinion, but I do not wish to say anything to prejudice the prisoner—I do not think I laid a case before Counsel before 10th January—his

opinion is dated 10th January, but we did not decide to prosecute till the month of February, we were still investigating—the case was laid before Counsel to ask him how far the facts warranted the assignees in prosecuting—I communicated with my clients, and after some deliberation, they instructed me to prosecute—I am not aware that the bankrupt was furnishing information, from time to time, as to the conduct of his business; on the contrary, they could get no information—I mean to say that I asked for information which he refused to give—I asked him about 10th December, the day after he was adjudicated a bankrupt, if he would tell me whether any goods had been pledged by him or his partner—he told me that none had been pledged—I then employed a detective to ascertain what had become of the goods, and in January, I think it was, I told the prisoner I had discovered that he had deposited large quantities of goods with Mr. Attenborough, and reproached him for not having told me so—I said, "It is a great pity you told me an untruth"—it is very painful for me to give this evidence, and it is against your client—I did not inform him that I was getting up a prosecution against him, because I apprehended he would abscond—he lived in the same house down to the very time he was taken—I gave him no information until I had obtained a warrant—sometimes some of the creditors were present at the conversations between him and me; his accountant was not present—I made an entry in my diary of my attendance on the bankrupt; the assignees would hear of that afterwards—I put down a short digest of the result of my attendance—I have not got it here, I did not come to give evidence against the prisoner—I saw him three or four times a week until the beginning of February—I was aware that he was at that time making up his accounts with Mr. Copley—I did not attend any of the meetings with Mr. Copley—I sent this account (produced) of the pledgings to Mr. Attenborough, and his written answer is on the other side—my question was as to the cost price of the goods—I had a verbal communicawith Mr. Copley, and wished to know the cost price of these goods, as the assignees were considering whether they would deem them goods or not—this document assumed the pledgings to have taken place on these dates, and the object was to ascertain the cost price, so as to inform the assignees whether it was worth while to redeem them—I examined Mr. Goring before the Commissioner, and ascertained the goods they had got at Attenborough's, and the dates and quantities—before this document was sent, Mr. Goring had stated before the Commissioner, in the bankrupt's presence, the different rate that they had been pledged at—you will find the date of that on the proceedings; Mr. Attenborough himself was examined on 9th December—I have made a mistake; it was 7th January that Mr. Goring was examined—it was before the list had been sent in—I told the bankrupt at the beginning of February, not to come to my house any more—this paper shows the goods pawned at Attenboroagh's on one side, and on the other the cost price of them in the prisoner's writing.

MR. METCALFE. Q. At the time that was sent was there any intention to prosecute? A. No; when we made up our minds to prosecute we abstained even from examining the prisoner in the Bankruptcy Court—bank rupts are very frequently examined with a view to their prosecution—I thought that unfair, and did not examine the prisoner—he was very much confused when I charged him with pawning—it was about a fortnight after that that I sent this document and received this answer.

WILLIAM GEORGE BRUCE . I am a clerk to Cutten and Davis, brokers to the Bankruptcy Court—I took possession of the bankrupt's property—I handed it all over to the messenger of the Bankruptcy Court—the estate

was afterwards sold by us—it realised 174l.—it consisted of general stock and wares, boots, shawls, and scarfs—they came from the bankrupt's place to ours, and they were then sold—I gave all the books to Mr. Hamber's clerk.

Cross-examined. Q. Was there anything else? A. Only the stock and the office furniture, which was very small, and the counting-house behind, that was included in the amount.

EDWARD SMITH . I produce the original declaration of insolvency from the Chief Registrar's office.

E. A. BUNOUT (re-examined). I do not remember whether the debt due from Brandice before his partnership was discharged by Austrian foreign notes—he gave Austrian bills when he was associated with Raudnits—I do not think there was a debt due from Brandice before the partnership—I do not recollect the date the Austrian notes passed, I think it was at the commencement of 1862; but if the date is required, I can give it to-morrow; I can send a despatch to Paris, if I do not go—I think it was at the time when the partnership with Raudnitz commenced.

BENEDICT GOODMAN being called, did not appears.

JOHN PAUL . I am an accountant, carrying on business with Mr. Turner, of Coleman-street—I was employed as the accountant to the assignees, and am also the trade assignee, in which capacity I took possession of all the bankrupt's books and papers—I myself found among them those papers that were produced by Mr. Abrahams yesterday, but not the letters—the amount of debts under the bankruptcy are between 13,000l. and 14,000l., about 13,000l. of which occurred in the three months before the bankruptcy—the whole amount of assets realised is about 160l.—very little will be realised from the pledges at Attenborough's—we anticipate realising from 180l. to 200l. on the goods redeemed; that is all that is likely to be realised, making about 300l. altogether—I found no traced of cash anywhere, but at the London Bank, where there was only a few shillings—there is no trace of any book debts—I have compared the statement of the goods which were received for the three months preceding the bankruptcy, and the disposal of them, as far as I have been able to trace—I made an account of the purchases from the day—book and the invoices, and the disposal of those goods I learned from witnesses—I saw the bankrupt's invoices at the examination meeting—I have inquired into the receipt and disposal of goods as far as the documents and papers afforded me an opportunity—in September I found thirty—eight purchases, amounting to 3,856l. 16s. 6d. and in October thirtyseven purchases, amounting to 4,583l. 3s. 11d.; in November, thirty-three purchases, amounting to 4,604l. 10s. 3d.; and on 1st and 2d December, three purchases, amounting to 160l. 0s. 3d.

COURT. Q. Do I understand that, if we were to take the trouble to do it ourselves, there are the day—books and invoices in Court from which we should arrive at the same result? A. Yes—I got the account which I am giving you the result of, from the documents produced to the Court under the examination of the witnesses—I was not able to trace the disposal of the goods from the bankrupt's books or papers—I found no sale-book at all—I found the book of bills payable, immediately I took possession of the books from the official assignee.

JOHN GLESSING . I am employed by the messenger of the Bankruptcy Court—I saw the books and papers when they were seized by the broken, and placed the whole of them in the hands of the official assignee, Mr. Graham.

Cross-examined. Q. When did you receive them? A. On 11th December, 1862—I handed them to the official assignee the same day; he made

list of them, and I have his receipt for them—it is for thirty-five books, "one letter-book, one day-book, one order-book, one banker's-book, one cash-book, thirty other books, and a box of old invoices, &c."—I wrote that description, and the official assignee signed it.

ARTHUR GEORGE PERRIN . I am one of the clerks to Mr. Graham, the official assignee—I went over the papers that were placed in the office, and entered them in this book—I took Mr. Paul's receipt for them when I delivered them to him—this is the diary of 1862 that I speak of in my list.

JOHN PAUL (continued). I received these documents and receipted this book—this is my receipt to the official assignee—there are no books which throw any light upon the transaction excepting these produced, the others are only pattern-books, in which samples have been pasted and torn out again.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you some books in French? A. There was a French letter-book, with very few letters in it; it is here—the letter-book I spoke of is only a draft letter—book of letters sent.

RICHARD COPLEY (re-examined). Here is an entry in this diary in the prisoner's writing on August 30th, another on October 18th, and another on October 31st—I do not know in whose writing the bulk of the entries are.

WILLIAM SINGER (re-examined). This boos was kept on a shelf in the office in Bread-street, open for anybody connected with the business to look at—Brandice used sometimes to write in it, and so did the prisoner at times, and I sometimes wrote in it—there were several books at Bread-street, but it was not my business to keep them—there were so many I cannot describe them—I know some are missing—there were others besides those produced in Court—I think there was a cash-book, a ledger, and a copy-book.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Did you go to Bread-street before the partnership began? A. Yes—the first page of this book is Brandice's writing—it begins on 4th January, in his writing, and on the 7th, 15th, 17th, 19th, and 23d. on which day here is a copy of a bill of exchange in the prisoner's writing—this entry on the fly-leaf, the very last page, of the 12,000 florins which the prisoner brought into the concern, is in Brandice's writing—it is a copy of the bills I mentioned yesterday—a person named Goodman has been called—there was also a person named Guttman in the establishment—I cannot tell you what has become of him—I saw him last at the place of business, a few days before the bankruptcy—he was paid 10l. a—week by Brandice for the management—he used chiefly to correspond with Brandice abroad—he was a German—he was not acquainted with Brandice before the partnership "—rbe acted as manager at the place of business in Bread-street.

MR. METCALFE. Q. I thought you said that you corresponded with France? A. Sometimes, I did, sometimes Guttman—Guttman sold goods for the firm—I do not know that he sold them on commission—he was mostly directed by Brandice, and when Brandice did not direct him, he was, perhaps, directed by letters—it was not my business to ask him from whom he had his directions—I called Brandice's attention to the entry of the bill being on the third page, and the 12,000 florins on the last page; he said, "It is of no consequence where I write"—the entries at the end of the book were made in January, a few days before he discounted the bills—the acceptance to this bill is in the prisoner's writing—(This was dated Prague, 4th October, 1861, for 1,000 florins, payable on 6th February, 1862, in Austrian value, to the order of the drawer, signed Antony Raudnitz)—Brandice gave that bill to Blondin freres in payment—they were his creditors before the partnership—here is another bill payable to the order of M. Blondin.

GEORGE ROUSE DISON (re-examined). The second bill just produced, is the one I spoke of the day before yesterday.

MICHAEL ABRAHAMS (re-examined). Some of the letters handed to me by Foulger were in envelopes—I have them here, but none of the letters produced were in envelopes, they were all folded together one in the other—I was uncertain about it before the Magistrate, but I afterwards satisfied myself that they were not, by going through the whole of them with the envelopes—I do not understand German, but I came to that conclusion by comparing the envelopes with the letters themselves; but I can read German though I cannot understand it—the German character is different in print and in manuscript—I cannot read it—the envelopes were not in the German character, but the inside was—I was suddenly asked in Court whether they were in envelopes, and I said I would look through the papers and consider the point, and I recollected that they were not—I am positive the letter were not in envelopes when brought to me; here are the envelopes (produced).

COURT. Q. The envelopes that pass through the English post are always stamped with the date, is that the case with these? A. Yes; these letters are stamped in Paris—I have ascertained that the envelopes correspond in date with the date in the letters.

The translations of the letters were here put in, also the bills of exchange and invoices, which were taken as read by Mr. GIFFARD'S consent. Mr. GIFFARD requested that an account by the prisoner of the partnership dealings, which was among the papers seized on 13th February, might be read, but the COURT considered that as the prisoner could not be examined, his written statement could not be received.

This being the case for the prosecution, Mr. GIFFARD submitted that there was no valid adjudication of bankruptcy, the Registrar not having acted on his own behalf but as deputy for the Commissioner, who ought, under the 52d section of the Act, to have shown that his absence was unavoidable. Mr. SERJEANT BALLANTINE contended that the Registrar was entitled to adjudicate, both on his own behalf and as deputy. THE COURT would take a note of the objection, and consider whether it would be necessary to reserve it. Mr. GIFFARD next submitted that there was no valid petitioning creditor's debt, as the debt must be payable at the time of the bankruptcy, and not suspended by any bill, and that M. Defrasse had given no evidence of any particular amount due, nor had any invoice of the amount been produced.

NICHOLAS DEFRASSE (re-examined). This invoice (produced) is in my clerk's writing—it is perfectly exact—I have my book here, and can prove the items.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. When did you first see that document? A. My clerk copied it from my books—I came to London on Tuesday last—I had papers with me, and this invoice might have been in them—before it came into my possession, I saw another, of which this is a copy—I did not bring it with me when I came to London the first time in December—one was written off-hand on a blank sheet of paper, but not on an invoice like this—it was written on 4th or 5th December, when I came to make the defendant a a bankrupt, and one was made on the first occasion at my own house on 21st October, the day the goods were delivered—I saw them delivered—I was at the house—I did not see the goods at Reynauld's, but at the ware-house—I did not see what became of the invoice that was made out at the time, but I suppose it was made out, because that is the ordinary course of my business—goods cannot be delivered without an invoice.

COURT. Q. You say that yon saw the goods at your warehouse; did you see Reynanld there at the time? A. Yes, because he gave me the bill written with his own hand, which is here—I saw the goods in my own ware-house—I reckoned out a portion of them, and saw the rest during the time they were being selected—Reynauld came there with Brandice, but they had gone when the goods were being reckoned—they made the selection, and afterwards the goods were counted out and delivered—I saw Brandice in Paris again in November and had a conversation with him, but said nothing about the goods which were reckoned out—I did not see any of those goods at Brandice's house—when I came over in December with the invoice which was made off—hand and saw the prisoner in London, I had this invoice with me—this was at Mr. Abrahams—it was not this invoice without a head. (Attached to the proceedings)—Mr. Abrahams made that in my presence—I do not know whether the paper was produced when I saw the prisoner on 6th December, or any invoice—there, is an explanation to be given about that, but I am not allowed to give it—when Brandice said, in the prisoner's presence, that he could not meet the invoice at the end of November, I said it w*as surprising that the house could not pay a sum of 3,000 francs.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Is it the fact that Reynauld had any contract with you by which he was to pay for these goods? A. Not Reynauld—this (produced) is the bill Reynauld gave me.

MR. GIFFARD next submitted that the defendant being a foreigner, and domiciled in France, there could be no petitianing creditor's debt; that tht Act of Parliament laid all the property in the assignees, who could have no property in France; that there was no evidence of any act of bankruptcy by Brandice; for although he left the country, he was actually carrying on business in Paris at the time. MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE contended that it ought not to be assumed that there was a substantial house of business in Paris and another in England, and that all the credit was given to the French house. MR. BARON CHANNELL stated that Counsel could, after the case was over, agree at to any questions being reserved, and left it to the Jury to say, first, whether there was a real and bonafide business carried on in Paris, or whether the premises in Paris were taken and used exclusively to enable the defendant and Brandice to obtain goods to be sent to England, and at a mere contrivance for that purpose; second, whether before 10th December Brandice absented himself from his place of business in London with intent to delay or hinder his creditors; third, whether the defendant with indent to defraud hit creditors and within three month of the adjudication pawned or pledged otherwise than by bonafide transactions in the ordinary way of his trade, goods and chattels which had been obtained on credit, and remained unpaid for; fourth, whether he in like manner disposed of any such goods; and fifth, whether he made away with, encumbered or charged any such goods. THE JURY found first, that the premises in Paris were not buying and telling premises, but only at a mere contrivance to obtain goods for England; second, that Brandice did not leave England to defraud his creditort before 10th December; third, that the pawnings or pledgings were done with intent to defraud within three months of the adjudication, and that the goods were not paid for; fourth, that he did to dispose, and fifth, that he did to also. THE JURY strongly recommended him to mercy on the ground of hit inexperience, in which recommendation MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE stated that the French creditors unanimously joined.

GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-726
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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726. JOHN UNDERWOOD(40) , Unlawfully causing to be exposed for sale in a public market certain meat unfit for human food.

MR. SLEIGH, MR. POLAND , and MR. TAYLOR conducted the Prosecution.

ROBERT LORD. I am a farmer, at North Leigh, near Oxford—I have known the prisoner some time—he is a journeyman butcher—I had a white cow in April which was ailing—I called in Mr. Laing to attend to her, and in consequence of the failure of medical treatment, I ordered her to be slaughtered—the prisoner slaughtered her, and he afterwards came across to me and asked me to sell him the carcase—I asked him what he was going to do with it—he said that he knew what to do with it; he knew where to place it; I might as well let him get 2s. or 3s. as any one else—I sold it to him for 30s.—if healthy it would have been worth 12l. or 14l.—the hide alone was worth 17s. or 18s—the carcase might be good food for animals—I sold it to him, and he came next day with the carrier—I then said to him, "You are not going to send this to market?"—he answered me that he was not, I said, "I should think not; I would not have it go for 50l."—it was slaughtered at 11 o'clock, and the carrier came for it at 1 or 2 o'clock the next day—it had then been quartered, as butchers' meat is, and hung up in the barn—the prisoner dressed it, but I did not see it till after it was done—it was then packed in cloths, as meat usually is—the tongue was cut out and chucked in the hamper with the rest—I did not give the prisoner any authority to use my name in the transmission of this carcase to London—I did not see my name on the hamper, and did not know that it was being used—the prisoner did not pay me.

JOSEPH LORD. I am a son of the last witness—I was present when the prisoner came to kill the cow—my father was not present then—I was present when the prisoner asked the prosecutor to sell it—my father asked him what he was going to do with it—he said that he knew better what to do with it than anybody else—my brother is not here.

WILLIAM TOWNSEND . I am carman to Mr. Payne, a carrier, of Witney, Oxfordshire—I had orders from my master to take some meat from Mr. Lord's—I went there on 7th April, and found the prisoner waiting—I found the meat hanging on the beams in two parts, and the prisoner and I quartered it—Mr. Lord, the first witness, assisted us—I take meat from different places to the railway; it is usually packed in cloths—this was packed as meat for market usually is—it was directed to London, and I took it to London—the prisoner gave me an inside ticket, which I put in, and one to put on the outside—I could not read them—Mr. Lord was present when the hamper was put in the van—a hide was also put in which appeared to be white, but it was dirty.

Prisoner. Q. Did not you hear Mr. Lord say, "Cut out the tongue and send it separately; it will fetch a better price than it will at home?" A. Yes.

THOMAS GULTON FRENCH . I am clerk to Mr. Payne, a carrier, of Witney, in whose service Townsend is—I sent by him on 7th April an empty hamper and cloths to Mr. Lord's—the hamper came back loaded with meat, which I caused to be transmitted to London—it was addressed to W. and E. Taylor—I afterwards received the hamper back.

ADEN EDEN . I am a porter in the employ of the West Midland Railway Company—on the afternoon of 7th April, I received from Townsend a hamper of meat, addressed W. and E. Taylor, Newgate—market, which was sent that night in the ordinary course by goods train to London—I saw it put into the train—it would arrive about 4 in the morning.

ISAAC TURRIN . I am in the employment of Mr. Younghusband, of the Old Bailey, a carrier—on the morning of 8th April, I went with my cart to the Great Western Railway Station, and fetched some hampers of meat to Newgate-market—I delivered three or four hampers to Mr. Taylor—they were all from Witney—they all had Payne's name on them—one of them burst open—it contained some beef and a white hide—I delivered it at Taylor's.

JOHN TAYLOR . I am a porter, in Messrs. Younghusband's employ—on the morning of 8th April, I received from Turpin's van a hamper, with the name of Payne on it, which had burst open—I delivered it at Messrs. Taylor's shop, in Newgate-market.

WILLIAM JOSEPH HARRISS . I am a school-master, at North Leigh, in Oxfordshire—I know the prisoner as a journeyman butcher—on 6th April, he came into an hotel in North Leigh, while I was there, and asked me to write a letter for him—I wrote this letter at his dictation, and read it over to him to see that it was correct.(This was addressed to Mr. Taylor by the prisoner, and stated: "I forward you a rough body of beef, and a hide tomorrow; do all you can for me, and I will do the same by you in every respect I hope to send you some good tegs in less than a fortnight from different parties." The postscript stated: "The body of beef is one of my own.")

CHARLES DRING . I am stilled in cattle diseases—I was called in in April to attend this cow, which was suffering from lung disease—I only saw it once, ten days or a fortnight before its death—I then considered that there was no chance of its recovery—it would not have been fit for human food if it had been slaughtered then, and ten days longer existence would not render it any better.

GEORGE MARSHALL . I am Mr. Taylor's foreman—on the morning of 8th April, I opened this hamper, containing four quarters of beef, a head, a tongue, and a hide—it was pitched from the van at the shop, in the public market—the hamper and cloths had the name of Payne on them—the meat was very bad; it was in the last stage of consumption, and unfit for food; any butcher would be able to tell that—Mr. Wild took it away.

WILLIAM WILD . I am one of the meat inspectors of the City of London—my duty is to go through the market and inspect the meat—on 9th April, between 5 and 6 o'clock, I saw this hamper pitched by Mr. Taylor's—I found in it four quarters of beef, a white hide, a head, and a tongue—it was rotten with disease—the flesh was so wet that it had nearly rotted to the bone—that was unmistakably perceptible to an ordinary person—I conveyed it away, and it was destroyed by order of Mr. Alderman Humphery—I sent part of it to Dr. Letheby, by a person named Last.

COURT. Q. Can you take upon yourself to say that the appearances of disease were perceptible on the 7th? A. Yes; it would be perceptible when it was slaughtered—that kind of meat never gets dry—I can distinguish between any taint from the closeness of the atmosphere, and badness from disease.

WILLIAM LAST . I am a porter at Leadenhall-market—on 8th April I received from Mr. Wild a piece of loin of beef, with the kidney attached—I took it to Dr. Letheby's, and delivered it there.

HENRY LETHEBY, ESQ., M. D . I am medical officer of the City of London—I examined the piece of meat with a kidney to it, which has been spoken of—it was in a state of great emaciation and disease, very little fat, and very wet—it was quite unfit for human food, which would be perceptible to any person having a knowledge of meat; such meat never sets—that would be perceptible two or three days before, to the person who slaughtered it—being slaughtered on the 6th, and quartered on the 7th, there would

twenty-four hours to see whether it would set—the person slaughtering it must bare seen that it was unfit for food—the whole animal showed it at once by its emaciation and wetness—the consumption of such meat by human beings is very likely to produce disease—I have known it produce very serious diseases.

Prisoner's Defence. I never remember hearing Mr. Lord say anything about its going to market at all. I was not aware that I was doing wrong by sending it; I thought the salesman had the power of disposing of it in any way he could, and if it was not sufficient to pay him, to send to the parties to get the money to do so.


A petition, numerously signed by the prisoner's friends, was handed to the Court. Confined Three Months.

FOURTH COURT, Friday, May 16th, 1863.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-727
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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727. JOHN GROVES(45), was indicted for stealing 1 pocket-book, 1 purse, and 35l., of Harriet Roberts, in the dwelling-house of Samuel Trott.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

HARRIET ROBERTS . I am single, and reside at 50, Coleshill-street, Pimlico—up to the 31st of March last, I resided at 31, Newland-street, Pimlico, and occupied two rooms on the first-floor—I have no recollection of seeing the prisoner until I attended at the police-court—on 13th November I had a pocket-book, and in it five 5l. Bank of England notes, 10l. in gold, and some bank receipts, for stock which I had sold out—I took the numbers of the notes—some of the numbers were 51,813, 51,815, and 51,819—the last time I saw them I took them from a cupboard—I wrote my name on them all—the gold was in a purse in the pocket-book—I think I replaced the pocket-book in the cupboard, which is near the fireplace, in the front room—I do not recollect whether I put them in the cupboard or a basket on the table—on 15th November, I missed the pocket-book—I communicated that loss to my landlord, Mr. Trott—I gave notice to the Bank of England, and I afterwards saw there some of the notes I had lost—these notes (produced) are three of those that were in the pocket-book—they each have my writing on them—I have occupied the same apartments for seven years.

SAMUEL TROTT . I am a porter, and live at 31, Newland-street, Pimlico, and am the landlord of that house—the prosecutrix occupied the first-floor for seven years—the prisoner was in the habit of sweeping the chimneys—I remember Miss Roberts complaining of her loss last November—on 30th March she left, and on 31st the prisoner was employed to sweep the chimneys of both rooms on that floor, and I was in the room all the time he was sweeping them—he took away the soot as usual—he never came afterwards to make inquiries as to anything found—I am quite sure of that; nor did he come to inquire for Miss Roberts, nor about any papers or bank notes.

COURT. Q. Had he swept the chimneys during the time Miss Roberts had been tenant? A. In our own rooms—in years gone by I think he did sweep her chimneys once or twice—that was a good while before, because she was in the habit of having a young man to sweep them to the time she lost the money.

WILLIAM JACKSON BARTON . I am a stock-broker, and reside at 10, De Beauvoir-terrace, Kingsland—I received a note by post, and after that the prisoner called at my office, I think about the 7th April—he addressed me

in a somewhat singular manner, commencing, "Are you prepared to act honestly, uprightly, and straightforwardly?"—I told him that was a singular way to address me, and said, "What do you mean?"—he then put his hand in his coat pocket, and took out a brown paper parcel, and said, ** I have got some bank papers having your name upon them"—he may have mentioned Miss Roberts as well, because her name was upon them—immediately I saw the papers, knowing that I had sold her stock, I said they were of no value whatever—I might have told the prisoner that he might light his pipe with them—the prisoner did not ask where Miss Roberts lived—he never put any question to me—the papers were wrapped in brown paper.

(MR. BURY HUTCHINSON, attorney, proved the service of a copy of a notice o" the primmer on 8th May.)

RICHARD ROPER . I live at No. 26, Grove-street, Chelsea, at a chandler's shop—on 1st April, I took some bacon to the prisoner's house, which came to 6s. 9d—the prisoner came first, and ordered some change to be sent with the bacon; I was present, and heard it—I took change for half a sovereign—the prisoner said, "I shall want more than that"—he gave me a 5l. note, to which I saw him put his name, and I took it to my master—he had not change euough, and I took it back to the prisoner, and then offered to take it to the public-house—I took it to the "Clarence House," kept by Mr. Gascoigne, and got it changed, and gave the change to the prisoner—I should not know the note again.

HENRY GASCOIGNE I keep the Clarence House, Westbourne-place, Pimlico—I remember chancing a 5l. note for list witness, on either 1st or 2d April—I afterwards paid that note, with others, into the London and County Bank—I should not know it again—I cannot say whether any one of the notes produced is the note, but I paid it into the bank on the 2d.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Did you pay it in yourself? A. No; I sent it by the barman—if I took it of Roper on the 2d, I paid it in the same day—I paid 110l. in notes, chiefly 5l. notes—I should think I received the note from the boy about 11 o'clock, and I sent my barman between 3 and 4 to the bank—I did not pay away any notes in the interval—I had received the notes I paid in between the Monday and Thursday—I do not recollect how many I paid in.

JAMES LANKESTER . I am assistant to Mr. Boston, carpet-warehouseman, Queen's-buildings, Knightsbridge—the prisoner and a woman came to the shop on 1st or 2d April, and bought a carpet and other things—I think the amount of all was 1l. 16s., and he gave a 5l. note—I noticed there was no name and address on the note, and I told the cashier to put them on—I cannot swear whether he did or not—I did not see it afterwards—I do not know what was done with it—we bank at the London and County—I believe the cash is sent there—I never paid it in.

Cross-examined. Q. How do you know it was the 1st or 2d? A. I know by the books—I enter the address in the parcel-book—I have not got the book here—I cannot swear to the day without the book—I am certain it was either the 1st or 2d—it might not be the 3d—I cannot tell which it is, except from the entry in the book—I recollect that it was in April—it must have been either the 1st or 2d.

EZRA PILGRIM . I keep the "Star and Garter" public-house, Sloane-square—I know the prisoner—I changed a 5l. bank-note for him and took; a sovereign to pay for refreshment—I think it was 24th April; I am not positive to the day—I paid it into the London and County Bank, with other money—I think I should know it again; it had the prisoner's name on—I did not take the No., and all these (produced) have his name on.

Cross-examined. Q. Is the note among those? A. I cannot say—what I took was paid into the bank with other money—there was 145l. in notes, and a great many 5 l. notes.

RICHARD ADIE BAILEY . I am a clerk in the Bank of England, and produce three cancelled bank-notes—they are each for 5l., and numbered 51,813, 51,815, and 51,819, and all dated 10th March, 1862—they have all got on the back "John Groves," and also "Bank H. Roberts"—I took No. 51,813 off the tile on which there were only the notes paid in on that day—that was 9th April—the 51,815 was paid in on the 11th, and the 51,819 came in on the 4th—there is a stamp upon each, which tells me how they were paid in—the stamps are 180—182, and 218, of which I know the meaning—they were all paid in from the London and County Bank.

Cross-examined. Q. How do you know that? A. By the manner in which the business of the Bank is conducted—No. 180 indicates that it was paid in in a parcel of bank-notes so numbered—I am certain they were paid in by the London and County, because I have looked at the pay-sheet—if the No. was 179, it would probably be sent in through some other bank—I could not tell how many parcels we received from the London and County on that day, but probably twenty.

COURT. Q. Did you make an investigation as to what back paid them in? A. Yes; I know of my own knowledge.

JOHN HORNBLOW (Policeman, B 624). On 13th April, at a quarter-past 9, I went to Eaton-cottage, where the prisoner resides, and found him there—I told him I was a police-officer, and that I should take him into custody for stealing, at 31, Newland-street, 10l. in gold, five 5l. bank-notes, a pocket-book, purse, and some bank papers, the property of Miss Roberts—he said, "I will tell you all about it—I found the bank-notes in a chimney I swept in Newland-street, but not the gold"—on the way to the station the prison said, "I will tell you all about the bank papers—I wrote a letter to Mr. Barton a stock-broker in Throgmorton-street, and I went down to him with the papers; he told me they were of no value and I might light my pipe with them, as Miss Roberts had sold the stock out."

The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was read as follows:—"on 31st of March, I went to 31, Newland-street, Pimlico, to sweep the chimneys in the front rooms; there was no furniture there; on taking down the register, I found a piece of paper; I swept it down and took it home in the soot; in the afternoon I sifted the soot for the cinders. I picked up soon paper and opened it, it contained five 5l. bank-notes and some papers. I said to my wife, 'Good God! here is a prize.' The next day I told my child to write 'John Groves' on each of the notes; my children had scarcely any shoes to their feet. Then I changed one of the notes. Then I well to Mr. Barton the next day; I did not say anything about the notes; he said the papers were valueless and I could light my pipe with them. I told Sergeant Ambler who asked roe, that I changed one of the notes at the Clarence, and burned the papers."

The prisoner received a good character.


11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-728
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

728. HENRY BEDFORD(18) , Feloniously forging and uttering an order for payment of 25l. with intent to defraud.

GEORGE FEARNLEY . I keep the North London Coffee-house, Camden-road, Camden-town—in May last year, the prisoner came to my house and said he should stay a few days—a few days afterwards he told me he expected some letters addressed "The Hon. Henry Bedford," whom he was, and that he was

a nephew of the Duke of Beaufort—a letter came addressed the Hon. Henry Bedford, which I took up stairs to the prisoner, who was in the drawing-room—he opened the letter in my presence; while doing so he said he expected a cheque from his uncle, and in course of the conversation he produced a cheque for 100l.—he Beamed very much excited, because some one had told his uncle that he had been doing anything but what he ought to do—he said, "the cheque is only for 100l.," and he threw it down on the table as in disgust that it was not more—he then said, "My uncle says this must do for the quarter, and if that does not do he will not do any more"—he handed me the letter, and I read a portion of it and gave it back—he wrapped it up, and it was thrown into the grate—the uncle said he was very much surprised at his conduct, and sent him a cheque which he must make do, and that the prisoner's sister was very much grieved at his conduct; and he wished to see him to dine with him that night, in order to chastise him—the prisoner left the house that day—I supposed he went to dine—he came back about 12 at night—he brought a splendid bouquet, and said it had been picked from the conservatory by his-sister, and presented it to my wife, and I thought it was all right—on the following night he said he expected some letters, saying, "When they come will you bring them up stairs?—a few minutes after, I letter came and I took it up; it was directed the same as the other—after I had left he rang the bell, and said he had got a cheque for his valet's quarter's wages—the cheque (produced) is the cheque—he had before given me the 100l. cheque to take care of—it was drawn upon the London and Westminster Bank, and signed "Beaufort"—he said he had had an interview with his uncle, and was very much scolded, and his uncle said if he did not change the cheque he would make him a present of it, and that was to make him steady—prisoner said, "I shall not cash it, I shall keep it," and he handed it back to me saying, "Now take care of it, and if I can do without cashing it I will"—he had asked me if I could cash it, but I could not—he said he did not want to lose it at Kate Hamilton's—he asked me to changes the 25l. cheque—he said "Fearnley, can you cash in this cheque?"—as he was putting on his gloves, I said, "No, I could let you have a few pounds "—I went up stairs and got all the money I had, which was 9l.—he went out and said he would take the change when he came back in the evening—I never saw him again—I took the cheque to the bank, and found the Duke of Beaufort had no account there—I never recovered a farthing.

Prisoner. Q. Did you give me the 9l. in the presence of anyone? A. No; there was no one in the room but us two—I never received a letter from you addressed from Bedford-row—I made several inquiries about you of the people who visited my house, but I never could ascertain anything about you—I thought you were the person you represented—you struck out the word "bearer" and put "order"—I got you the pen and ink—you said, "Do not present the cheek to-day Fearnley," and I did not do so for several days afterwards—I did not know it could not be presented without being endorsed—you told me in the presence of others that you were the Hon. Henry Bedford—there was scarcely a customer who came to the house but thought you were.

WILLIAM BIGNOLD KING . I am chief ledger-keeper of the London and Westminster Bank, Bloomsbury branch—the cheque was presented by Mr. Fearnley—the Duke of Beaufort has no account with us—I believe the cheque was originally delivered to Mr. Harry Bell, of Bedford-row, who is a customer—it is the number given to-Harry Bell—there are no two cheques given with the same letter and number to one customer.

HIS GRACE THE DUKE OP BEAUFORT . The prisoner is not my nephew—he did not dine with me in Belgrave-square in May, 1862, or at any other time—I have no account at the London and Westminster Bank—I never wrote a letter to the prisoner—the cheque produced is not in my handwriting—I never gave any one authority to sign that cheque.

HARRY BELL . I am a solicitor in Bedford-row—in 1662 the prisoner was a clerk in my office at a salary of 15s. a week—I lost two cheques or counterfoils out of my cheque-book with the London and Westminster Bank—the number of the cheque produced is the same as the others in my book—I never saw the 100l. cheque—the cheques are marked A 18,924th—the prisoner while in my employ could have extracted those cheques; he sat at my desk—the cheque is in the handwriting of the prisoner, and so is the word "Beaufort"—I have frequently seen him write.

JOHN SMITH (Policeman, 23 B). I apprehended the prisoner on a warrant at Neville-street, Brompton, on 14th April—he then represented himself to be the Marquis of Ormond—he was identified by Mr. Fearnley.

Prisoner. Q. Where did you apprehend me on a warrant? A. At the police-court, you were apprehended without a warrant—the Magistrate said it was irregular, and I apprehended you before you left the COURT.

The prisoner handed in a long written statement, in which he said the name Beaufort was in his handwriting, but the cheques were not drawn with intent to defraud, and that he had been led into it by playing at cards at the prosecutor's house.


11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-729
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

729. HENRY BEDFORD was again indicted for stealing 3 pistols, and a watch and chain, the property of Stephen Walter Turner.

STEPHEN WALTER TURNER . I am a clerk, and reside at 5, Ebor-terrace, Stoke Newington—some years ago I became acquainted with the prisoner when he held a situation at Messrs. Laurie and Lee's, Doctor's Commons, and our intimacy lasted about twelvemonths—he then went by the name of Henry Bedford—I lost sight of him three years—he then called upon me in Ebor-terrace—he said he had a considerable amount of property through the the death of his uncle, Admiral Harcourt, of Swinton Castle, Yorkshire, and that he had changed his name in consequence from Bedford to Harcourt—he did not give me any card, but he left some about—he said he was about furnishing a house in Belgrave-square, and that until it was ready he should like to reside with me—he said he had been staying at Long's Hotel—I consented to take him in, and he shared my bed—on the night of the 23d February I lent him a coat, which I have never seen again—we went to bed that night about 12 o'clock—I had a watch and gold chain, which I put under my pillow; I had also a purse with about 2l. 10s. in gold and 10s. in silver—the purse was in my trousers-pocket, the silver in my waistcoat-pocket—I had also three pistols, one was a breach-loader, the others were small—they disappeared some days before—I missed them in the course of the week before the 23d—the prisoner came about a week before that day—on the morning of the 24th I was awoke by my landlord—I looked for my watch, chain, and money, and missed them—the prisoner bad gone without my knowing it—the coats were taken out of the hall—I communicated with the police—I went to Luxmore's, the pawnbrokers, with Sergeant Smith, and saw my watch and chain—those (produced) are mine; so are the pistols, and one of the great coats—I never gave the prisoner any authority to take any of those things.

HENRY HUDDEN . I am landlord of the house, 5, Ebor-ferrace, Stoke

Newington—I recollect the prisoner coming there in the month of February last, but not the day—on the morning of the 24th I went into Mr. Turner's room—I had not seen the prisoner that morning.

JOHN JAMES CHAMBERS . I am assistant to Mr. Luxmore, of St. Martin'slane, pawnbroker—this silver watch and gold chain were pawned by the prisoner on 25th of February, in the name of "Henry Bedford '—I have the duplicate—they were pawned for 3l. 10s., and I think in the early part of the afternoon.

JOHN TAYLOR . I am assistant to Mr. Gamson, of 4, De Beauvoir-place, pawnbroker—this pistol was pawned on the 19th of February by the prisoner—I did not take it, but I saw him bring it in—it was pawned for 5s. in the name of "Thomas Coventry."

RICHARD SORRELL . I am assistant to Mr. Smith, of Tottenham-court-road, pawnbroker—I produce a coat which was pledged on 16th February in the name of "John Coventry"—I cannot recollect whether prisoner is the man.

MATTHEW MESSENGER . I am in the employ of Mr. Buck, butcher, of Brompton—I gave the prisoner into custody—he then had these two pistols in his possession—he was then passing as the Marquis of Ormond.

JOHN SMITH (Policeman, B 23). I apprehended the prisoner—he was then passing as the Marquis of Ormond—I found on him the tickets (produced)—I found some pistols on him, which were given to Dr. Davies, who originally gave him into custody—these are the pistols.

STEPHEN WALTER TURNER (re-examined). These pistols are my property.

GUILTY .*— Six Years' Penal Servitude.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-730
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

730. GEORGE JOHNSTONE MASON(15), WILLIAM BRADSHAW (19), and CHARLES HOOPER(18) , Feloniously forging and uttering an order for payment of 84l. 6s. with intent to defraud.


MESSRS. SLEIGH and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS WOOD . I am a cashier at the Bank of London, Threadneedle-street—the "City Building and Investment Company, Limited "keep an account there—on 27th March the cheque (produced) was presented for payment; I cannot say by whom-J cashed it—it is for 84l.6s., dated 23d March, 1863, and purporting to be signed by two of the Directors, and counter-signed by the Secretary—I paid a 50l. note, one 20l., and one 10l., and 4l. 6s. in cash—these notes (produced) are the three I paid—one note is No. 59,323, dated 9th December, 1862.

RICHARD ADYE BAILEY . I am a clerk in the Accountants' Office of the Bank of England—these notes were exchanged for gold on 23d March of this year—the name on the back of the 10l. is "W. Hamilton, 3, St. Peter-street, Islington.

JAMES HIGHAM . I am Secretary to the City Building and Investment Company, 29, Poultry—the prisoner Mason was a clerk in my employ for about six months—we keep an account at the Bank of London, and I produce my cheque-book—the signature to the cheque (produced) is not my handwriting—I do not know whether the signatures of the Directors are genuine; it is a very good imitation if it is not theirs—that cheque came from the Bank to me on the 27th or 28th, I happened to fetch the pass-book on that occasion myself—I looked at the counterfoil of my cheque-book, and immediately said the cheque was a forgery—there was no transaction to which it referred—Mason was in the office—I examined the

the cheque-book, and found eight or nine or ten had been taken out—there were altogether twenty cheques taken out of that and other books—Mason would have access to the cheque-books—the cheque is No. 42—I find Nos. 41 and 43 in the cheque-book, but 42 is the identical number missing—I took Mason to the Bank of London, and he was given into custody.

GEORGE DUDLEY FLECK . I am a photographic artist and an actor, living at 32, Chapel-place, Grovsenor-place—I have known Mason for some years, and have acted with him once or twice—in November last I became acquainted with Hooper—I knew him by the name of Stuart—I became acquainted with Bradshaw, I think, in the beginning of this year; I knew him by the name of "Hamilton"—I became acquainted with Hooper by seeing him in a cafe' in Pimlico; Mason and I were there—during the present year the three prisoners and myself have been together once or twice—once at the Trevor-Music Hall, Knightsbridge, and once at the "Windsor Castle "Tavern, near the Victoria Station—we were there on Thursday, 26th or 27th March—Mason and myself were there, and I think the other two came in afterwards—Mason was playing at billiards, and I was scoring—while I was so doing both Bradshaw and Hooper came up to me—one of them spoke; I do not remember which it was, and mentioned that Mason had asked them to present a cheque for payment, at the Union Bank I think it was—I told them they had better not have anything to do with it—something to that effect; nothing else was said then—when Mason had finished playing at billiards they went out, and I followed them, and they went up Shaftesbury crescent—at that time I was walking with one of them, I do not know which, and Mason was walking with the other in advance—the three of them had some conversation about some cheques, and Mason produced some—I heard the conversation, but what it was I do not remember—I won't be certain as to the number of cheques, but they were in blank, with the names signed—Mason said, but I am not certain whether it was then, or at a later time, that he had gone round to the Directors to get their signatures, as they hardly ever knew what the cheques were for; and then there was some conversation about their being filled in, and it was arranged that Hooper should fill it in—lie was asked, I believe, by one of them, and he consented—I do not remember what was said, or who said it—at that time the other cheques were burnt; they were passed round to see whose signature they thought the best—this was in the street, about the corner of Tothill-fields Prison, I should think it about half-past seven; there was a gas-lamp there—two, I think, of the cheques were burned at the gas-lamp—Mason climbed up the lamp—there was one or two left, I won't be certain—after this conversation we all four went to the door of 23, Gloucester-terrace, Vauxhall-road, which is a coffee-house—Hooper and Mason went in, and Bradshaw and I remained outside a few minutes, and Mason came out, and called us—we then went into the coffee-house, and joined Hooper—we all four had some coffee—Mason said Hooper was frightened to fill it in—I was asked to fill it in, and I refused; I am not certain which it was who asked me; it was Hooper or Mason, I am not certain—then Bradshaw sat down to the table, and had some coffee—there was a pen and ink there; so there was when I went in—I did not see Bradshaw writing, because I had my back to him most of the time—I saw a pen in his hand—I am not certain whether after that I saw the cheque or not; I might have seen it, but I do not think I did—Bradshaw said that as he had filled it in, be should not cash it—it had been arranged before that he should cash it—that was said before we went into the coffee-shop

—after that we all four left together, and went to Lower Belgrave-street, near the Victoria Hotel—it was between there and the coffee-shop that Bradshaw said he would not present it as he had filled it in—I think Mason said, when we were standing at the corner opposite Victoria-station, that he had written the signatures himself—Hooper then said it was cold and be left, and we three remained behind—before Hooper left it was arranged how the proceeds of the cheque should be divided—I am hardly certain whether it was before he went away, but it must have been, I should think—it was arranged that Mason should have 50l., Hooper 12l., Bradshaw, 20l. and I was to have the rest, the 4l. and the odd shillings—Hooper said he ought to have 15l., and Bradshaw 15l., but Bradshaw would not consent to that, and it was arranged as before—I saw Mason on the following morning—he handed me over 3l. 10s.—he used the expression, "The job is done," or something to that effect.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. When this conversation was going on as to who should present this cheque, did you not say that you would present it, but you had not time enough? A. I do not remember saying so—I might have said so, but I do not recollect it—when Bradshaw did not like to do it, I said it was quite safe—I was not trying to get Bradshaw to present it; he asked me if I thought it was safe, and I said yes—I merely repeated other people's words—he said he did not like to do it as he had filled it up—I do not remember that I said I would do it myself—I did not say at that time that I had a cousin in the bank, and therefore it would be awkward for me to do it—I think that was earlier in the day, and not to Bradshaw—I cannot swear whether Hooper left before the arrangement as to the division or not; to the best of my recollection he remained—I am quite certain it was Mason who went up the lamp-post, and not myself—I cannot climb—when he came down I lighted my pipe with one of the cheques, because I had no Vesuvians at the time—I was sixteen years of age last January—I am a photographic artist and a professional actor—I am now living with my parents, in Chapel-street, Hampatead-road—my father is house steward to the Earl of Erne—I mean he has been in the country part of the time—I have been living with my mother at home—I have the apparatus for taking photographs—I am not carrying it on at the present time, I am looking out for a place—at the time I have spoken of I did not carry it on; I have since—I carried it on in Regent-street with a friend—I am living with my mother, but I am carrying it on during the day—my friend is a carver and gilder, and I have been assisting him—I have not been carrying it on on my own account—it was his apparatus, but I have one of my own, which Thought since this affair—I have earned my living by acting for the last eighteen months, at the principal, provincial theatres—at Readings Coventry, and Windsor—at Winchester I was really ill and obliged to leave—the manager did not discharge me, I left of my own accord—I came up to town, and then I was so bad the doctor would not let me go down again—I have been doing nothing since then—I took a place myself for amateurs, and have had one or two performances—I do not look with contempt on amateurs, oh dear, no—the place was Bass's in Vauxhall-road—I do not call myself Mr. Bass—there is a Mr. Bass—I wanted the rooms, and engaged them—the name of the club was, "the British Amateurs Dramatic Club" the premises were taken for the night—the dresses were provided by me—I paid for the theatre—we managed to clear our way—the public appreciated it—they did not pay, they came in by tickets—our last performance was the "Corsican Brothers"—M Dudley Villiers" is my professional name—I

played the French nobleman—it was not then I got introduced to the prisoners—I knew them before; not all of them—I knew Hooper first—I saw Hooper and Bradshaw together after—I knew Mason before the others; we were almost brought up together—he kindly played for me once or twice, when we had not all our parts filled—sometimes he only paid half what the others did—one of the performances was in March, I think, the 17th or 19th, and the other in February—that was the first time I took this place—we were not associated before in that way; we knew each other merely at companions' and friends—of coarse we had been out together on pleasure, and to amusements—once or twice we went to the theatre together—I never asked him to cash a cheque before—I do not know whether this conversation while playing at billiards was the first of the sort or the first that I heard—I might have heard something more about it—I suppose I must have known perfectly well what was meant at the time—I did not know where Mason had got the cheque from—I might have heard him mention it—I cannot say that I did—I did not advise them to have nothing more to do with it—Mason advised the other two—when I was scoring they came up and I said they had better not have anything more to do with it—I must then have known what it meant—I might have heard from Mason before what sort of a transaction it was—I cannot say I did; it is a long time ago—it may have been mentioned once or twice, but what the words were I cannot recollect—I have heard it mentioned, but I never paid any attention to it—I do not mean that such a little matter as forgery would not attract my attention—I did not pay any particular attention; I treated it as nonsense—I advised these people to have nothing to do with it, because I thought it was getting to a head then—until I saw the cheque I did not believe it—I received 3l. 10s.—after the affair was over, if I wanted 10s. Mason very kindly let me have it—I cannot say how much I received altogether; it might be 5l. 10s. including the 3l. 10s.—I know a person of the name of Price—he was of my company, and played once or twice—Mason acted under the name of "Clifford"—Hooper never acted in my company at all—he was called Stuart—he has been called by that name ever since I have had the pleasure of knowing him—I never asked Price to cash a cheque, but he was asked by Mason—Price lives in Shaftesbury-crescent—I do not know the number, his father is a bookseller—I knew what Mason was about when he asked him, but I was talking to another individual—I think I heard the latter part of the conversation—I did not see the cheque produced—I have heard since that the cheque was shown, but I did not see it at the time—I am not certain that at the time I knew it was a forged cheque—perhaps it was one of those things I paid very little attention to—I will swear I did not tell Price there was nothing to fear, and I did not offer to pay him if he got it cashed—I have heard since—that that story has been circulated by Mason—perhaps it won't do me much damage—I do not remember saying he had nothing to fear—that transaction was before this one.

MR. POLAND. Q. How long before was that conversation with Price? A. It might have been the same day or two days before—I do not know whether it wan in one afternoon—I cannot say I am not certain whether, when I said it was quite safe to present the cheque, I was or was not aware if it was the signatures of the directors or not—I might or might not have been; it was some time ago.

JAMES TALLBOYS . I keep a coffee-house, No. 23, Gloucester-terrace, Vauxhall-road—I remember some young men coming to my house—I cannot tell the day—I cannot say whether there were three or four; it was

late in the evening, just as I was closing—to the best of my recollection it was on a Thursday in March last—it might have been the Thursday before a conversation took place, when the officer called upon me—I cannot say; there was nothing on the table other than papers and such like, not to the best of my recollection—I believe there were three or four young men came in one day and asked for a pen and ink, and they were supplied with it—they Remained about a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes; it might be over or under, I cannot say—I know they did not stop very long, as it was shutting up time—I shut up at 9 o'clock—I do not know who the young men were.

JOSIAH GEORGE WILLETT . I am clerk to Dr. Deane, who has chambers at Doctor's-commons, and also in the Temple—I know Bradshaw and Hooper—in March last they were in the service of Dr. Deane—they were at either of the chambers as required—I know both their hand writings—I believe the handwriting of the body of the cheque produced to be in Bradshaw's handwriting—the endorsement on the 10l. note, "William Hamilton, 3, St. Peter's-street, Islington," appears to be in Hooper's handwriting—the endorsement on the 20l. note, "Charles Hamilton, Messrs. Fryer and Co., New-square, Lincoln's-inn," I believe to be in Bradshaw's handwriting—Hooper had been in Dr. Deane's service about two years.

Cross-examined. Q. You placed considerable confidence in him during that time? A. Yes.

JAMES HIGHAM (recalled). The endorsement on the 50l. note, "William Jones, 2, Took-court, "I believe to be in Mason's handwriting—I have no doubt of it.

GEORGE SCOTT . I am a detective officer in the city police—I took Mason into custody on 2d April, Bradshaw on the 7th, and Hooper on the 8th, from Dr. Deane's chambers in the Temple—he was coming out of the door—I told him I was an officer, and that a statement had been made by a party in custody respecting him, and I must take him into custody for being concerned with Mason and Bradshaw ("Hamilton" I think I then said), on the charge of uttering a cheque for 84l. 6s. on the Bank of London—he said, "Must I go with you now?—I said, "Yes"—on the way to the station he said, "I never did any of the writing"—I cautioned him, and said he had better not make any statement to me, as I should have to mention it before the Lord Mayor, and he then said, "I wish to tell the truth. I was asked to fill in the body of the cheque, and I refused; I certainly was there, and received some of the proceeds"—I then took him to Mr. Mullen's office, on the way to the police-station—he was shown the 10l. note (produced), arid he said, in answer to some questions put by Mr. Beggs, "Yes; that is my writing on that note."

WILLIAM PAYNE I am a director of the "City Building and Investment Company"—my impression is that the signature to the cheque produced is not in my handwriting, but it is a most excellent imitation—I never signed a cheque in blank.

JAMES SMITH . I am a director of this company—I do not believe the signature to this cheque is in my handwriting; it is a very excellent imitation—I never signed a cheque in blank.

JAMES HIGHAM (re-examined). The cheque-book was kept in the office—it was not looked up—I cannot tell when the first cheque was taken—I did not miss any until this cheque came back; I then went through the book—cheques were taken from some other books—I have, as secretary, four accounts—the cheque-books were in the iron chest, to which Mason would

have access—they were not locked up accept at night—they were all numbered consecutively, and eight were missing—I did not miss any before that time.

THOMAS HOOPER— GUILTY .— Four Years' Penal Servitude.


WILLIAM BRADSHAW—GUILTY.— Four Years' Penal Servitude.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-731
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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731. GEORGE LEWISTON(30) , Stealing 53 dead mackerel, and one basket, the property of John Jacobs.

MR. WARTON conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN JACOBS . I am a fishmonger of Billingsgate-market—on Monday, 11th April, at 9 o'clock, I had forty or fifty pads of mackerel—I had sold two, and just turned round to take the money when I looked to the other end of the stand—I saw prisoner with a pad of mackerel going away—I followed him up Thames-street, and saw him about ten yards ahead, carrying the pad in front—he turned round and saw me coming, and put the pad on the outside of the pavement, and then walked towards me—I took him back and held him in one hand, and the pad in the other, until I got a policeman.

JOHN SOMMERFIELD (City-policeman, 533). I took the prisoner into custody.

Prisoner's Defence. I was coming from London-docks, and there was a man with another basket. He said to me, "Will you be so kind as to assist me to put one off. I did so. He ran away, and I walked on towards Billingsgate on my way home.

JOHN JACOBS (re-examined). I saw him walking, I should think for twenty yards—I did not see him take it off anybody's shoulder, nor did he say anything about it at the time.

GUILTY .— Confined Two Months.

THIRD COURT.—Thursday, May 14th, Friday, 15th, and Saturday, 16th, 1863.

Before Mr. Recorder.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-732
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

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732. JAMES CROWTHER(46), and SAMUEL GOODBURN(45), were indicted for conspiring together, by false pretences, to cheat and defraud Seton Laing and others of their moneys, goods, and chattels.

MR. EDWARD JAMES , Q. C., with MESSRS. CLERK and BESLEY, conducted the Prosecution.

SETON LAING . I am a colonial broker, carrying on business at 39, Mincing-lane—at present I have one partner, Mr. Merridew—between the years 1852 and 1855, Mr. Campbell was my partner; the firm was then Laing & Campbell—between 1855 and 1858 I had another partner, Mr. Page—the name of the firm was not changed, though he was a partner; it was still Laing & Campbell—Mr. Page left in 1858, about the end of the year, I believe—until the end of December, 1859, the firm was Laing & Campbell, as before; then Mr. Campbell left, and Mr. Merridew entered into partnership with me, and so the firm has continued ever since—we deal in a great number of different articles of colonial produce, as many as thirty at least—we have two clerks—in January, 1852, the prisoner Crowther entered my service as a market-clerk; he had to attend to the cream-of-tartar business, and various other articles, and to assist me generally in the business—it would be part of his duty to buy and sell articles for me in the market when he came he informed me that he was connected with chemical works, a very risky business, and he should much prefer having a regular income, and I took him into my business, with an express understanding that he should sell all the stock in his hands connected with the chemical work—he was

expressly to devote his time to the interests of our firm—that was a matter distinctly arranged between us, and it was distinctly arranged that he was not to carry on any business on hw own account—there was an arrangement at that time with respect to salary, nothing else; it is not in existence now—when the time expired it was destroyed I suppose—I don't know—when one agreement expired another was made—this (produced) is the agreement made in 1859 with regard to the salary—(Read: "39, Mincing-lane, Oct. 21st, 1859. Sir, I accept your offer, namely, to continue my services for the following years: 1860, at 450l.; 1861, at 500l.; and 1862, at 500l. upon the former understanding that the whole of the time be devoted to your interests. Yours truly, James Crowther. To Seton Laing, Esq. and his future partner")—during the time he was in my service he had especially to attend to the purchase of saltpetre, which was added to his department—Goodburn bad been in my service, I believe about thirty years—he came to me as a boy, and be has been with me ever since—in 1859 his salary was 400l. a year; he was book-keeper, cash-keeper, and had the sole charge of the bills, warrants, and all the securities—in our business we only have the warrants representing the goods, not the goods themselves—when we purchase goods in the market, the warrants are always delivered to us on the payment of the prices, and those warrants were entrusted to Goodburn for safe keeping—when saltpetre, or anything else standing in our name, was sold, he would deliver up the warrants to the purchaser on receiving the money for the same—my instructions to him were, not to part with any warrants without receiving the money, and without letting me know—in March, 1853, Crowther introduced to my notice the account of a person named Henry Barber—at that time I had had no dealings with Barber—Crowther told me that Barber carried on chemical works in Jamaica-level, Bermondsey; that he was a very respectable man, of limited means, but quite capable of paying for any goods that he might require—he said occasionally he might require advances upon warrants—I told him there was no objection to that whatever, but to be careful about the accounts, and not to allow Barber at any time to go beyond from 300l. to 500l. without letting me know—if he overcharged his account at all he was to let me know—it was also understood between us that Barber was to buy the whole of the materials he used through us, and we were to sell the whole of his manufactured articles, with the commission mentioned, one per cent each way, one per cent on the raw article, and one per cent on the manufactured—I told Goodburn exactly the same as I told Crowther with reference to Barber's account—I think I had a personal interview with Barber at that time, I am not quite sure—from the time Crowther entered my service, in 1852, till the time he left, in March, 1862, the rule with regard to the making out of the balance-sheets, was, that every party should have a copy of his account—a current account was sent to every party, generally half-yearly, sometimes every quarter—those accounts were made out by Goodburn and ought to have been signed by one of the partners—he had no business to send an account out of that sort, without its being signed by one of the partners; that was the rule—prior to Campbell's leaving me, I had made inquiries of both the prisoners, I should say, eight or ten times every year, regarding the state of Barber's account—when I asked Goodburn he only gave me one answer, which was, that the account was in a very satisfactory state; and when I asked Crowther, he told me the same thing—I never beard from either of them that it exceeded a certain sum—when Mr. Campbell was leaving me as a partner, we went over the different accounts with

our book-keeper, with a view of seeing that all the different balances were properly covered; Goodburn was present—among other accounts we referred to that of Mr. Barber—I asked Goodburn whether the balance of that account was properly covered by securities, and he told me it was—when Mr. Campbell left I paid him 1,800l. more than be ought to have had; I paid him in cash and bills—on the 1st January, 1860, Mr. Merridew's partnership began, and just before that I had a conversation with Goodburn, in the presence of Mr. Merridew, with regard to the state of the balance—Mr. Merridew had been a clerk in my house—I said to Goodburn, "Mr. Merridew is coming in here as a partner, and it is very desirable that be should know the true state of all the accounts in the ledger"—Goodburn then assured us both that all the balances were properly covered, and that there was not a bad debt in the ledger; "a bad or doubtful debt, " I believe he said—on the 18th March, 1862, Mr. Merridew made a communication to me with regard to some purchases of Barber's, and I told Goodburn later in the day to make up Barber's account, and have it closed—on the following morning I came to my counting-house about half-past 9; Goodburn had been there, and left before I came—Mr. Merridew and I were sitting in our private room, reading our letters, when Crowther came in, and shut the door—he said he was very sorry to tell us that Mr. Goodburn had gone away unwell—I said I was very sorry to hear it—"in fact," he said, "I have a very unpleasant communication to make, which is that Mr. Barber's account is considerably overdrawn"—I said, "Overdrawn! how can that be? how much is it overdrawn?"—he said he did not know; he knew nothing about it—I said, "Why you must know all about it"—he said he did not; he did not keep the ledger—he said, "I am not your book-keeper; how can I tell and the ledger is kept locked"—I asked him how the account stood—Mr. Campbell left at the end of 1859; he told me it was all right then, be knew—the balance was covered by securities—I think that was all—he also said that in consequence of a letter that my partner had sent to Barber the previous day, Goodburn was quite alarmed about the account, and was afraid to face us—after that Mr. Merridew, and I went to Goodburn's private house; he was not at home—we then went to Barber's, and had some conversation with him, and he delivered to me a quantity of papers and letters, which I took to the counting-house—Goodburn did not return to the counting-house for two or three days—when he came, I called him into the private counting-house, shut the door, made him sit down at the opposite desk to where I was, and I charged him to tell me the whole truth, and everything connected with this account of Barber's—I said to him, "Now, Goodburn, tell me everything connected with this affair, and if I find you telling me another falsehood, you may depend upon it you will be answerable for it"—he said he had nothing to tell me; he was extremely sorry, and had no excuse whatever to make—I referred to Mr. Campbell's account at well, and said, "How is it, Goodburn, after the liberal treatment you have received from me, that you allowed me to pay Mr. Campbell such a large sum of money more than he was entitled to?"—he said he had no excuse whatever for it—I said, "Mr. Crowther tells me that he knows nothing about this account"—he said, "Nonsense! he knows all about it from beginning to end"—he said the account got gradually worse and worse; he had repeatedly called Crowther's attention to it, and he was assured by Crowther that it would be all right, and was persuaded by him to conceal the state of the account from myself and my partner, until it got so large that he was afraid to mention it—that was all at that time—on the following

morning I called Crowther into my private room, and spoke about this matter—I said, "Well, Crowther, I find you have been telling me a falsehood; Goodburn tells me that yon know all about that account from beginning to end; and more, I find that when you introduced Barber to my firm, he was indebted to you upwards of 500l., and that you have recouped yourself the money"—he said that that was quite true—I told him it was a very disgraceful and dishonourable act, for he must have known that the money he obtained from Barber came directly out of our pockets—he said he considered himself quite justified in doing as he did, in paying himself—I said I considered his conduct throughout most disgraceful, and he could not longer remain in our service, and I ordered him out—he then left—I have had no communication with him personally since—he sent to me some months afterwards—Goodburn remained at my counting-house for some time, making up the accounts, perhaps two months, from March to May, or some where about that time—he made up Barber's account—this account (produced) is made up by Goodburn.

MR. MONTAGUE CHAMBERS . Q. Is it Goodburn's writing? A. No; it is the signature of another clerk, named Hewitt; it was copied from our ledger by another clerk—it is not signed by Goodburn—we have the ledger here.

MR. CLERK. Q. Did Goodburn see that account before it was given to you? A. He did; it is a fair copy from our ledger—Goodburn kept the ledger—all the books are here—this account shows the balance due to me from Barber to be 7,575l. 6s. 6d.—we realised all the securities on Barber's account, and they produced 900l.—Barber delivered no securities—among the papers delivered to me by Barber, there was a book in which initials were—this is it (produced)—it is all in Crowther's writing; it is headed, "Repayment of the old account"—I also received from Barber accounts dated 29th July, 1856, August 4th, 1856, and August 30th, 1856, in Crowther's writing—(These accounts being ready showed that Crowther had charged 5s. a barrel to Barber upon 61 barrels of saltpetre, which had not been credited in the books)—there is a deduction of 5s. a Cwt, and 5l. a ton—a barrel contains a Cwt—at the end of these accounts, is this letter in Crowther's hand writing—(Read: "Dear sir, I shall, I expect, receive to-morrow for Jones 60 barrels. The above will be the account of the money. Yours truly, J. Crowther. Peckham, Aug. 29/1856.")—Mr. Crowther's private residence is at Peckham—I received this letter, marked D, and dated 13th October, 1857, in Crowther's writing—(This letter contained this passage; "The contracts made by me some time ago with Caudery at 56s. and 60s. were becoming dangerous; I have there fore passed them through L. & C.")—these letters (produced) all came from Barber's and are all in Crowther's writing except this memorandum, which is in Barber's writing—(A letter was here read, dated from Peckham, midnight, January 16th, 1857, from Crowther to Barber, stating that he would pay into Barber's account, 26l. 7s. 6d., instead of 30l.; and that the reason he did this was, that it just made the reduction an even 110l. Letter K was from Crowther to Barber, dated Nov. 17 th, 1867, stating that he feared the petre ships would not turn out as well as he (Barber) reckoned; that Mr. Walker had said that morning that the Natalia and Winifred, just in at Liverpool, would leave 1,000l. profit, the south Sea perhaps 500l., and the Covenanter 300l., total, 1,800l.; the William Miles, which was the smallest, was doubtful it also stated: "This 1,800l. Mr. G. can put in a way he knows how to your credit at once, by debiting you to the purchasers, and crediting you by the sellers, and this in round numbers, with the 1,000l. you are reducing, would bring your balance say 4500/3000l., 1500l. as compared with what it was when he made it up last." Letter R was here read, dated July 9th, 1859,

from Crowther to Barber, beginning, "Dear sir, you must be very careful what you write now, as I have no quiet desk, and all my things are overlooked and overhauled in a nasty manner;" and at the end, "Be very cautious what you send here. I gave Mr. G. the memorandum, and he will write you respecting it, J. C."—the S. G. at the bottom of this letter (marked H) is Goodburn's writing—(This was from Crowther to Barber, dated 27th December, 1859, stating that as it was very desirable to enter the 10 tons to Thomasett, and the 10 to Varley, and the 5 to Dell in this year's account, he (Goodburn) would before the end of the year enter them to Barber's account, signed J. Crowther. Confirmed S. G. Letter L, dated November 19th, 1860, was from Crowther to Barber, stating that Crowther would be sad indeed if Barber took any step which would subject his friend Goodburn to disgrace, which might end in ruin, brought about really by a mistaken idea of serving him. Letter W from Crowther to Barber, stated: "My simple opinion is that Laing's will discover what I am doing before it is finished") These, three letters (produced) are in Goodburn's writing—I really cannot tell the value of seven casks of Argol; it fluctuates tremendously—these two cheques (produced) are payable to Goodburn or bearer—one is written by Crowther and the other by Barber, and crossed—one is dated August 22d, 1861: "Pay Mr. Goodburn or bearer 50l., signed Barber, crossed to Hankey and Co.," and the other August 28th, 1861: "Pay Mr. Goodburn, or bearer, 22l. 10s., signed Henry Barber"—these other two (produced) are written by Crowther and signed by Barber—one is dated August 28th: "Pay to Mr. Crowther, or bearer, 22l. 10s., Henry Barber," and the other August 19tb, 1861: "Pay to J. Crowther or bearer 50l., Henry Barber." (Letters S and T were also put in and read.)

Cross-examined by MR. MONTAGUE CHAMBERS, with MR. METCALFE (for Goodburn). Q. Who were the partners when Mr. Crowther was first employed by you? A. Mr. Campbell and myself—that was in 1852—a third partner came in in 1854 or 1855, I think—I never allowed a large contract to be made without my sanction—all three of the partners acted in making contracts in their different branches—Mr. Campbell did not interfere much in the business—Mr. Page was the third partner—those gentlemen are both alive—I cannot tell whether they are here as witnesses—Mr. Campbell is in India—Mr. Page is in the City—he carries on business now with two other gentlemen—Mr. Page was in partnership with me four years—I don't think it is a fair question to ask me whether he brought in any capital—I appeal to his Lordship, and if he thinks right I will answer it—he did bring capital in, and he took capital out—he retired before Mr. Campbell, at the end of 1858—Mr. Page attended to the seed, linseed, and seed oils, and various other articles—those are the two principal articles—he attended to the general business with me in purchasing and Belling as colonial brokers—I believe he retired in December—I had not several book-keepers in my employ at that time—there is a Mr. Walker—he wrote the day-book, and a man of the name of Croker, who is dead—he attended to the account sales—Page attended to his own particular purchases—Mr. Page, myself, Mr. Merridew, and Crowther, were all buyers, all acting as brokers—I had known Crowther occasionally in the market before he became my market-clerk—it is quite possible we might have had dealings with him, but I don't think we had—I should doubt it—of course I knew him as a chemical manufacturer—a person named Robert Adams, who is since dead, introduced him to me before I took him into my service—Crowther had been with me a year before he introduced Barber to me—my dealings with Barber in the first instance were simply with regard to

tartar and tartaric acid—they were limited to that—it was when he was introduced to us that I said there was not to be a credit of above 400l. or 500l.—it was Crowther who mentioned to me that he wished to extend the business, and that it should be extended to the saltpetre business—I naturally concluded that his dealings would be larger than they had been—there was nothing said about the extent at all—I inferred they would be larger than they had been—I knew that the purchases of saltpetre for him were very large indeed—the mode of payment was, that if he required saltpetre he must pay for it one way or the other, either by cash or by the manufactured article—the value that he took in raw saltpetre he was to return in manufactured saltpetre—the plan of business was for me or Crowther, or one of the partners, to go into the market and bargain for saltpetre which was to arrive, or which had arrived—we bought it in Barber's name, as his brokers—Mr. Merridew bought the saltpetre—I did not attend much to it—he was then my clerk—the broker's note would not be sent to Mr. Barber till he paid his deposit—after the petre arrived and was landed, a weight note was made out—we made out a bought note to Mr. Barber, so that he knew we had made the" con tract—that would earn us our 1 per cent, when the saltpetre arrived, not before—the moment it arrived our 1 per cent. would be due—I do not know whether Barber returned the same saltpetre to us in a manufactured state, but he returned refined petre, then we told that for him, and they handed us our other 1 per cent—our bargain was that he was not to sell any of the saltpetre that we had bought for him to anybody else—we expected him to return it in the manufactured state—I found out that he was buying saltpetre through a third party—we expected that he would return the saltpetre that we had bought for him in the raw state in the manufactured state, so that we might have the re-sale of it, and earn our 1 per cent.—we charged 5 per cent on the balance; it depended upon the market—sometimes we charged as much as 8 per cent when the bank-rent was 10—we never charged more than 8—we don't lend our money for nothing—if there is a balance due we charge an interest on that balance—that balance of 6,16l. odd is not made up of interest and compound interest from the commencement of the balance—I will swear that—it begins from the date we began business—as the balance got bigger of course interest was charged upon the annual account on the whole balance—when Mr. Page retired in 1858 I did not employ an accountant to go over the books—Mr. Campbell and I went over the books when Mr. Page retired—Mr. Page had his accounts furnished to satisfy him when he retired—Mr. Campbell, Mr. Page, and I went over the accounts—we went over the ledger, and nearly all the important books—I have not spoken to Mr. Page since we dissolved partnership—we did not part upon the best possible terms—he was very exacting in insisting upon having his capital out—I examined the books with him to satisfy him whether he had or had not got enough—that occupied, I should think, a month at least—it was at least a month before all things were settled—there is a fixed day of payment made when we make a purchase—before we pay for the goods warrants are delivered to us—we pay at the prompt or before—when we get the warrants delivered we charge what we have paid against any customer for whom we buy—if a man pays his own prompt we charge no interest, and only half per cent commission instead of 1 per cent.—if he does not pay his prompt we charge him 5 per cent.; it depends upon the rate of the money market—it is sometimes 8, never more—having paid the advance we get the warrants delivered to us—we do not keep a warrant-book—we keep no book to enter securities that

we have in our possession—it is a business of several hundred thousand a year—we make advances from time to time to persons who do not pay their prompts—the contract-book is the first book in which a purchase would be entered—it is no one's business in particular to keep the contract-book—very often some of the junior clerks enter—if I or one of my partners have made a purchase in the market we come back and enter it in that book—it shows distinctly the date of the contract, and the nature of it—I believe the contract books for 1857, 58, and 59, are here; if not we can send for then—after it is entered in the contract-book it is entered in the day-book—Mr. Goodburn partly kept the day-book, and Mr. Walker partly—Walker is not in our service now; he is clerk in a house in Mincing-lane—after it is transferred to the day-book it is then entered in the ledger—all those books were open to all the partners, so that they knew the extent of the purchase they had made, and of the advances—I depended upon Goodburn as looking after the securities; he got them—the brokers from whom we purchased the goods would hand the warrants over to Goodburn at our office—we have a banker's book—from time to time I found out that we were very much in advance on Mr. Barber's account—the warrants and securities were sent every night to our banker's—I saw that there was a large balance against Barber every year—I found that out two or three times every year—the first time I found it out was about the middle or end of 1853, when we began the saltpetre business—the balance in 1853 was, 1,145l. 13s. 3d—that was on account of tartar and acid—it was immaterial whether we took the warrants up or not—we acted upon Barber's instructions about the goods—having ascertained that it was covered by warrants, I did not cure what became of it—I should not desire to realise the warrants if I was satisfied they were covered—I did not consider it requisite—I relied upon Goodburn holding proper securities—whether there was security of not I expected to get my 5 per cent. interest on the balance—it was in 1855 that the saltpetre transactions commenced—I saw the annual account in 1856—the balance then against Barber was 2,034l. 18s. 4d.—Mr. Merridew was the person who acted in the saltpetre trade—it is a trade that fluctuates very much—our brokers sometimes give advice as to when it is desirable to sell or to keep the saltpetre—Mr. Merridew had communication with Barber during the time he was in our books, and so had I frequently—I called his attention to the heavy balance against him several times—I advised him that it would be desirable for me to proceed to sell the saltpetre which covered his balance—we nominated the warehouseman after we purchased the goods—very likely the goods were warehoused before we bought them—I never took the trouble to find out what warrants had been used to take away the saltpetre from the warehouse—I depended upon my book-keeper—neither I or my partner ever looked over our securities that were sent to the bank every sight; I did not consider it requisite to do so—I do not believe that any brokers in the lane do, I never did—I should think we had fifty or sixty customers who were dealing in this way, I cannot tell—with the exception of Barber, or Barber's account, I have not been able to discover the slightest impropriety in any of the accounts kept by Goodburn—from 1855 to the end of 1861, the transactions were not so large, as between 90,000l. and 100,000l.; within 10,000l. or 15,000l. of that, I should say—from 60,000l. to 70,000l—I should think the saltpetre transactions were not to the extent of 80,000l.; I will say somewhere about from 60,000l. to 70,000l.; upon all that there was a commission, and an interest ve per cent, on the balance—when

Barber commenced dealing with us, I do not think he had any saltpetre refining place—he began to feline for himself in 1866, I think—I know that he incurred expense in fitting up his premises for refining saltpetre—I do not know to what extent; I have only been to his premises once, when this affair was found out—it was in 1867 or 1858, when the saltpetre, which was coming over by vessels to Liverpool, was damaged; that was saltpetre that we had purchased on account of Barber, to arrive—it was to arrive in more than one vessel; 3,000l. worth, or somewhere about that, had been bought by us on account of Barber, to arrive—we paid the prompt for it when it armed—some of it did not arrive—we paid the prompt for that which arrived; about 1,800l. or 2,000l., Mr. Merridew will tell you better than I can, it is his branch of the business—the amount of our contract was upwards of 3,000l.—the saltpetre was damaged in the voyage, and did not make a profit—it was washed out—the water bad got in, and dissolved it, so that the anticipated profit on the arrival of perfect saltpetre was disappointed; I believe if it had all come perfect, there would have been a profit of between 2,000l. and 3,000l. upon it—the extent of transactions in money and cheques which passed through our hands differed very much—it was some times quite as much as 100,000l. per month, sometimes less—the transactions were generally very large—Goodburn had no one to assist him in keeping the ledger—he had to keep it all himself; nobody wrote in it besides himself—he had to look in the day-book, and the contract-book, or to receive information from the partners and also from the market clerks—I beg to observe that I have repeatedly offered to give him further assistance, and he has said he did not require it—since this affair has been discovered I have gone through the books with my own clerk—we have not had an accountant to go through them; we did not require one—I have not found a single error in his accounts, save and except those with regard to Barber's affair—it was in 1862 that I had these conversations with Crowther and Goodburn—it was Crowther I first spoke to on the subject, on the morning when he came in and said that Mr. Goodburn was ill—I had not spoken to Goodburn about it before that morning—it was two days afterwards when I saw him, and then I spoke to him for the first time—it was at the counting-house; no one was present—I believe I said something to the effect that if he told me everything, and disclosed everything, he would not be the worse for it—he, after that, came day by day to make up the books, and to go through the accounts, and worked as hard as he could—I think that was for two months—I think this account, beginning with a balance of 7,609l., was handed to me, at the date it was made out, the 8th of April, 1862—that was before he left me—I had these other two accounts from Barber; I. don't know when he gave them to me, with several other papers, after the discovery—it was not whilst Goodburn was making op the accounts; it was after he left, I am quite certain of that—Goodburn remained in my office only so long as I thought he knew nothing about these frauds, but when I began to look into matters, I found it was desirable that he should leave—up to shortly before he left, I was under the impression that be knew nothing at all about this—I don't think I sent Goodburn to my attorney—he has been to our attorney; I never sent him there about Barber's matter—our present attorney is Sharp—I have sent him to Lawrence and Plews—I did not send him to Barber's attorney—I am quite sore of that—Barber handed me both these accounts—I cannot say when that was—he banded me papers almost every time I saw him—Barber has handed me other letters than those which have

been read today—I cannot tell how many—they are all at the office; you can have them if you like—they have all been put in our attorney's hands—there were more than four or five—in the years 1857 and 1858 I was unfortunate enough to have a large claim against a man named James Windle Cole; proceedings were going on in bankruptcy against him in 1867 and 1858—Mr. Goodburn was required by me to go through Cole's accounts—they were voluminous—he was absent from the office at the hearings against Cole—he attended most times, I believe—during the time he was away, I think Mr. Walker acted for him—Cole's affair was not going on in the Bankruptcy Court above ten months, I should think—we only had eight meetings—the accounts had to be examined very closely—we had printed statements of them—Mr. Goodburn assisted me in making up the accounts—Crowther, in one of his letters, refers to a Mr. Walker; that is the Mr. Walker in my employ—when Campbell retired it the end of 1859, he saw with what he was credited before he took his balance out—he employed Mr. Ball, an accountant, when he joined me in 1851, I think, not when he left—it was for me to be satisfied then more than him—Page employed no accountant when he came out—he came is when Mr. Campbell was there, and left before Mr. Campbell—Mr. Page looked at the accounts himself; all the securities were under Mr. Goodburn's charge—he had the sole charge of the box in which they were kept, and the only key belonging to that box—he used to give all the securities—when Mr. Campbell left I advanced Goodburn 100l. a year more—he was receiving 300l. in Campbell's time—he began with me with a small salary, 60l. a year—each of the partners had not a key of the box in which the securities were placed—I will swear Mr. Campbell had not—I had not, and the other partner had not—when I wanted them, Goodburn sent the key to me in a letter sealed up—he gave me the key when I asked for it, and so with the other partners—Mr. Merridew was my clerk before he was partner—I had duplicate keys of all the ledgers—the other partners had not a duplicate key of the security box—I will swear I never had—when Mr. Goodburn was at the Bankruptcy Court, he handed the key over to Walker; he was only there a few hours at a time.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALENTINE, (with whom were MESSRS. SLEIGH, GIFFARD, and THOMPSON). Q. After Crowther had left you he commenced business on his own account, did he not? A. No; he was a clerk to some little indigo-dealer, a purchaser, not a broker, in Fenchurch-street—I used to see him about daily—I have no doubt he made purchases, I saw him doing so constantly in the public sale-rooms—I did not circulate matters very much to his prejudice—I did not hesitate to give my opinion about him—I expressed it very freely—he insisted on an explanation, and sent an attorney to me for the purpose of obtaining it—I did not decline to give it—I said that he had put words into my mouth which I never uttered—I gave the attorney the explanation he asked for, and he was perfectly satisfied—Crowther offered after that to go through the books with me, and give me any explanation I required—he sent Mr. George Evans, his master, after he left me, offering to give any verbal explanation I required—my answer to him was this, that Crowther had told me so many infamous lies that I would not believe him on his sacred oath, and I told him to tell Mr. Crowther to give me an account of all the transactions he had had privately with Barber since he introduced him to my firm—that was the explanation I wanted; and, of course, he never gave me any—he did not send his brother several times offering to give me an explanation of every single

transaction he had had, or to go through my books; I would not before hit explanation—I asked fur a proper explanation, and he would not give it—he did not offer to give me explanations of his dealings, if I would give him access to my books—I swear that—since he has been in custody he has asked me for the purposes of his defence, that he should have access to my books—I think he made the application himself—I consulted my attorney, and declined to allow him to see my books—Barber's name would appear in my books, in a vast t number of transactions—an examination of my books would not have shown his private transactions at all—it would have shown transactions between Barber and ourselves—Crowther was authorised to act on our behalf with Barber—he had not our procuration—he was authorised in matters of business to communicate with Barber and others—I mean that I made a bargain with him that he was to do no business of any kind whatever on his own account, without any exception or qualification—this (produced) is a counterpart of the agreement under which he came into my employment; it is a copy with my signature—he was expressly authorised to wind up all his own business—I have said that before; he was to do nothing else except that—he was a manufacturing chemist before, and, no doubt, a purchaser in the public markets, holding goods and warrants for goods—the winding-up of his business might take him a few months; he told me that it would not occupy more—I have not, as late as 1857, charged him commission on a transaction on his own account; certainly not.

Q. Just look at that and tell me whether you adhere to what you say (producing a paper). A. This must have been some of his own stock; it is partly in Crowther's writing and partly one of the clerk's; it is not signed by me—he was not dealing as late as 1857 on his own account with our aid—it might have been some of his stock which he had not disposed of, he did not tell me—I have no doubt whatever that that was in relation to some of the old stock—before he joined me he was what we call a dealer and manufacturer; and Barber, whom he introduced to us, was also a manufacturer—he purchased through our agency—we are sworn brokers—we are entitled to 10 per cent. as brokers, and the same for sale—a prompt does not mean a deposit—a deposit is merely a security for the fulfillment of a contract that is made, and the prompt is the balance—if we have to advance the prompt. we, generally speaking, charge an extra half per cent—of course we charge interest on all advances, annual interest—we take accounts frequently but the interest account is only made up to the end of the year—I do not know anything about compound interest; we run it on to the new balance—it is generally made up at the end of the year—we do not make the interest account up three or four times a year; it is possible that it may be made up at anyone's request, but that is not the habit of our office—I did not say that the interest account was made up half-yearly or quarterly—I am quite certain about that—the warrants were deposited with Goodburn, in point of fact, and they would have to be delivered out by him for the purpose) of getting out the purchases, Barber having obtained advances; and he obtaining the warrants and getting out the goods would have to manufacture them—it was the understanding that we should get the refined petre on all occasions—I do not think we ever paid Barber any money; very seldom—I think we must have done so—with the profit he got on the affair if he had been fairly dealt with he would have done very well—there was an express understanding that Barber was always to buy through our house, and sell to our house, and he was neither to buy nor sell through any other house whatever;

that what I represent to hate been the understanding, and to pay I percent both ways—I mean to say that if I had known he was dealing with others I would have closed the account at once; it turns out now that he dealt with Caudery—I did not know it; I have only heard so since we have had several transactions with Caudery—we might bane sold Caudery some refined petre of Barber's; he has had large transactions with Caudery through our house—we did not charge Barber 2 per cent upon those transactions of Caudery's"—there may have been some arrangement to charge Caudery 2 percent, and pay Barber I—it was not a fact to my knowledge—I have not done business in that way to the amount of 10,000l. a-year, not to that extent—it is very likely we consulted with Barber, and he agreed to pay Caudery a commission—it was not done to the extent of 5,000l. a-year, nothing like it; it was something very small indeed—there was not an agreement between us and Barber that this should take place—we never charged Barber any extra commission without explanation—we no doubt explained that; I will swear we did—I did not sign all the contracts made by Caudery myself, sometimes one partner signed, and sometimes another—(looking at a paper) those are very large transactions, but they have nothing to do with Barber; I cannot tell that they have—it was the rough petre that we bought on account of Barber; he was supposed to refine it, and then bring it back into our hands, our proposition being 1 percent on the purchase, and 1 percent on the sale—it is clear that Barber has been charged 3 percent, but Caudery would not purchase Barber's saltpetre without receiving a commission, and we communicated with Barber, and he agreed to pay him that extra commission; we did not benefit by it—I remember it all now perfectly—I must have explained it to Barber—I don't think it was anything like to the extent of as much as 8,000l. or 10,000l. a-year—I cannot swear it—(looking at some paper) there have not been transactions of that kind in one year to the amount of 10,000l.; I swear that—our books, of course, show the amount of business we did by Caudery; it would take me a day to go through them—I do not think the transactions in which Barber was charged 3 percent, upon the whole was anything like the amount you state, but I cannot say what the amount was—we, being the brokers, were bound to find a customer for the petre—we sold it to Caudery at a charge of 2 percent instead of 1 to Barber, because we get a higher price from Caudary than anybody else; his was the best market—that was partly after the failure of Caudery, and partly before—Crowther had dealings with him to a very large extent unknown to me and my partner; there were very few dealings indeed that were known to me and passing through our books—there were not to my knowledge large transactions down to 1862—there were in 1861—(looking at some cheques) these are cheques of Crowther's, pot ours—there is no writing of mine upon them—by turning to our books I could ascertain whether they had gone through our bankers—(referring to the books) on 26th January, 1861, Caudery paid us a cheque 1,500l.—at the end of 1860, Caudery owed us a balance of 3,387l.—this was in part liquidation of his debt—it has nothing to do with Barber—that 1,500l. does not apply to petre sold on account of Barber—we had plenty of transactions with Caudery besides those on Barber's account—I say decidedly this 1,500l. had nothing to do with Barber, it was a liquidation of a balance due to us at the end of the previous year—that was not a balance created partly by Barber's transactions, different things, there is cochineal, tartaric acid, and other things that Barber had nothing at all to do with—there were some solitary instances in which we made this charge to Barber—we never charged him beyond 2 percent.,

1 for buying, 1 for selling, unless it was paid to a third party for Berber's benefit—these transactions extended down to the end of 1862—I wish to explain about some of these items—there were several other customers introduced by Crowther; some required credit, some did not—the securities were contained in a box, which was kept by Goodburn; there was no book in which they were kept, we did not consider it requisite—we had a different system; each party had his securities kept distinct from the other—we had no means of knowing by reference to any book what securities we bad in our possession—we paid these men very heavy salaries; we had no check on them; I placed confidence in them—of course I knew perfectly well the purchases that were made, and the account that there was—I did not know that Barter was driving a very ruinous trade; I believed quite otherwise—in January, 1862, the account was 7,509l. 6s. 11d—I don't think I made purchases for him to the extent of 2,600l. or 2,600l. after January, 1862, Mr. Merridew will explain—the only security we had of Barber's were the warrants, the best we could hold—I knew that he had something like 7,000l. or 8,000l. worth of a fluctuating article on hand—I would have gone into the market with that knowledge and bought 2,000l. more on credit for him upon the assurance that it was accounted for in the proper manner; that is, that we had sufficient in our hands to cover the balance due to us—whether or not it would have been better for him to part with his old stock was his affair; I did not consider it requisite to make, any inquiry about that—I did not make any terms with Barber to get hold of all the documents and papers; he gave them—I had very great difficulty in getting them; I got them by degrees—I did not get them all on the same day, nor the same month—I made no arrangement or agreement with him whatever—I have an account of the securities, which realised 900l.—I can show the amounts; I think we have a list of them; they require some explanation, which can be given——I can give you all the particulars—I have not a list of the warrants we had, but we gave them up to Caudery when he paid us for them—the securities were not warrants; they were memorandums from Caudery for about 800l., with the exception of about 100l.—there were no warrants whatever—we delivered these memorandums back to Caudery when he paid us the money—there was no sale in the market alter this discovery; a few tons of salt—petre, nothing more—I charge Crowther with dealing on his own account—that is shown by documents—there was an amount given to us by Hinton Brothers, of Bread-street—this is it (produced)—the principal items hers are before 1854—in 1855 there are some large amounts, but the great majority are in 1852—I don't see any items here applicable to petre—I can say that the whole of this is not applicable to the winding up of hit own business—I believe a great portion of this went through our books, but I cannot tell—this is an account sent to us by another party, the Hintons—it is not a copy of our own books—we have not prepared it—no doubt a regular commission was charged by us upon all the transactions—this is a jobbing account between Crowther and Hinton Brothers—we charged the regular commission, passing through our books—Hinton showed me this—I have vouched this as an account of transactions in which Crowther was dealing irregularly on his own account—I cannot tell whether every single item has not gone through our books; how can I?

COURT. Q. If he dealt irregularly on his own account, how could it be a matter upon which you would have commission? A. I don't know; on every occasion that they passed through in the name, of Hinton Brothers, we charged our regular commission.

MR. SERJEANT BALLAKTINE. Q. Did not these pass through your books A. I cannot tell without referring to our books—I have not had this in my possession since 1855—some of the items are in 1857—I have not had it since about April or May last year; about twelve months from the present time—I don't think we have examined our books to ascertain whether the items contained in this account have regularly gone through them—I challenged Crowther with having dealings with Hinton, and he denied it—he did not admit it, and give me a full explanation of it—he never did; he denied the whole of it—I did not after the explanation increase his salary—he denied ever having anything to do with it, and I took his word for it—I swear that he did not say, "Every item is to be found in your books, and you are well acquainted with the transaction"—I did not know it until he had left our counting-house—I cannot tell without examining our books whether every item did not pass through them, and that we pocketed a 2 percent, commission upon each—Mr. Merridew got this account from Hinton's, and he will explain it—the next transaction is Northcote's; you will not find it in any of the documents produced.

Q. A great number of letters have been read, which I confess are very unintelligible to me; do you allege that any of those letters refer to transactions in which Crowther was acting improperly upon bin own account? A. Yes, almost every one of them—I often called Barber's attention to the heaviness of his account—I frequently did that, down to the termination of the dealing; the explanation he gave me was, that the market was likely to get better, or something of that sort—he told me the account was well secured by warrants; I swear that; be told me so several times—when we sold up, there was only one weight-note, worth about 100l.

MR. CHAMBERS. Q. When Mr. Page retired was there not a dispute; and was there not an arbitrator appointed to settle that dispute? A. Yes; there were two, Mr. Soames and Mr. Slisher—they looked into the accounts—there was also a dispute when Mr. Campbell retired; there were two arbitrators then, Mr. Slisher and Mr. Craig, I think merchants (Mr. Soames I think was a broker)—they looked into the accounts that we thought proper to place before them, not the whole accounts in the ledger—they looked to see what Mr. Page and Mr. Campbell were entitled to; they were men of business—we paid back a sum of money to some insurance office—I should not think I was above a day calculating the amount to be paid—I did not devote the whole of the time to it—on the second day the accounts were filed—I did not do it; I set the clerks to work—Mr. Merridew looked into the thing—I was not aware of the fraud that had been practised upon the Royal Exchange Insurance Company until after the second examination at the Mansion House—one clerk examined into it, and very shortly; I did not interfere with it—when I said I was a day about it, I meant the parties connected with my office—I did not go into it at all; it was in Mr. Merridew's department, and I left it to him—I know that Mr. Merridew had signed the original claim; be will explain that.

MR. JAMES. Q. When these two gentlemen arbitrated in the case of Mr. Page and Mr. Campbell before their retirement, did they look into your strong box? A. No; they had nothing whatever to do with that—in 1854, one of our customers came to me in the Commercial Sale Room and made a communication to me—I communicated it to Crowther—I charged him with having sold to a friend of ours a quantity of brown tartar belonging to himself, and he acknowledged that he had—I told him that it was an abominable shame; he knew very well that he was not authorized to

do any business on his own account—he said he was very sorry, it was the only transaction of the kind he ever did, and he promised faithfully it should never occur again—since the discovery of the transactions which led to these proceedings, I discovered the dealing with Hinton, and this account was I furnished to me in consequence—Crowther bought those goods—he transacted all the business—there was some dispute on the part of Barber with respect to those goods—I cannot explain that; you mutt ask Mr. Merridew—I had nothing to do myself with those transactions with Hinton—I was not aware at that time of any complaint by Barber with respect to the quality—no allowance wad made to Barber with my knowledge or consent in respect of the inferior quality of those goods—I had no knowledge whatever of the transactions—I had no knowledge that Crowther was interested in them—of course I was aware that we were doing business with Hinton; but I was not aware that Crowther was interested in the goods purchased from Hinton—I never would have allowed anything of the sort—I was not aware that during 1861 and 1862 any warrants were handed over by Goodburn to Caudery which belonged to Barber; he had no business with anything of the sort—I never knew anything whatever of such transactions until after this affair—I did not hear until after this affair that there had been any warrants—4he warrants were contained in separate packets, with the names of the different parties—this 800l. or 900l. was handed over to me by Caudery—there was no written agreement as to the terms upon which it was handed over; I know nothing at all about that—there was some written agreement about not making Barber a bankrupt—I wish to explain the nature of some transactions with Caudery; Goodburn told it me and Crowther too, both of them; I heard it from one and the other, from Goodburn chiefly—Goodburn told me, in 1861 or 1862, and also Crowther, that they had entered into an arrangement with Caudery unknown to me or my partners: the arrangement was this, that they were to deliver to Caudery from time to time a quantity of saltpetre; upon every transaction there was a memorandum given over by Caudery for the amount, Caudery agreeing to pay within A certain time, and deducting from the transaction his 1 percent, commission; Caudery to band over the warrants for the rough saltpetre to Barber, Barber to supply Caudery with refined saltpetre to that amount, and that was how Caudery was to be paid—that was done without my knowledge.

COURT. Q. Caudery was to hand over the warrants to Barber, and Barber to send the refined to whom? A. To Caudery—I don't know what commission he received; I received commission—Goodburn told me that Caudery was to pay us—that is all I know about it—I knew nothing of those transactions at all; whatever transactions there were, were between Caudery, Goodburn, and Crowther exclusively—I would not nave trusted Caudery for anything like that—I told both of them to, over and over again.

MR. JAMES. Q. What did the 800l. that you received after this matter arise from? A. From the proceeds of warrants delivered by those two men from Caudery—they were delivered without my knowledge—I had no interest whatever arising out of that additional per cent, paid to Caudery by Barber—the payment of commission had nothing to do with the handing over of these warrants in 1861 and 1862—we charge interest upon an account, making it up at the end of each year, for and against—there is the interest upon both sides—this (produced) is a continuation of the account up to 31st December—it is made out by one of my clerks, not Goodburn,

the man who assisted Goodburn—it in copied from our ledgers; the ledger is in Goodburn's writing—the account is balanced on 31st December, 1859; that includes the items both to the debit and credit of the account of June and July; the balance to the debit for interest is 217l. 11s. 10d., which is at the same rate we charged to him—we are not in the habit of charging interest except on the annual balance—the red-ink writing on this paper is Goodburn's—this account is in the handwriting of one of the clerks, given to me by Barber—we do not enter those items in the ledger, but simply the balance—that it the ordinary course—we make up the accounts for the customers in the way which that is made up—I was aware from time to time of the large amount owing by Barber; but I was never at all aware that that amount was not covered by securities—Crowther introduced three or four other customers to me besides Barber—no mistake aver occurred in any other account except Barber's.

COURT. Q. Has there been a charge made in Mr. Northcote's account of 6l. for your benefit? A. That transaction was cancelled altogether, that was the transaction to which I called Crowther's attention, and he expressed his regret—Caudery failed in 1857—I am talking of that transaction where the warrants were handed to him; he paid a certain mm after the discovery—Goodburn handed over to me memorandums of Caudery's, showing that Caudery had warrants out of our box unknown to us, and we handed Caudery over the memorandums.

HENRY BARBER . I am a salt-refiner, at Bermondsey—I have been acquainted with Crowther upwards of twenty years—I knew him when he was in business in Bermondsey—I had business transactions with him when he went into Laing & Campbell's employment—I then owed him from 100l. to 120l., and had transactions with him, on his private account, after he went into their employ—he paid a series of dishonoured bills, to the amount of 300l. or 400l., for a house which failed, so that I was in his debt somewhere about 600l.—I began to deal with Laing & Campbell somewhere in 1853—I opened that account through Crowther—he did not introduce me personally to them—he told ma he had opened an account for me with them; that I was to pay cash for goods as taken away, and give value for value, and was to have no credit—at that time my circumstances were not flourishing; I was about solvent, getting a living—he told me I was either to send a cheque for the amount or deposit goods for the value for which they were advanced, and that when I was not in a position to pay he would lend me the amount—I agreed to pay him a commission of 2 1/2 percent for the advances—I received this letter (produced) from him and accordingly allowed him 2 1/2 percent on any advances which be procured for me—I got, from time to time, warrants for goods from Laing & Campbell—I cannot tell the amount in 1853—I received accounts from time to time—the balance in 1853 was 1,146l. 13s. 7d.; in 1854, 779l. 16s. 4d.; and in 1855, 945l. 4s. 6d.—I likewise paid him 5l. per ton for the goods which were sold by him—the persons he employed to sell for me were charged in the accounts, as arranged—I am aware of some instances of transactions with Caudery; between myself, Laing & Campbell, and Caudery—my transactions were with Laing & Campbell, and they dealt with Caudery—then were instances in which 1 percent was allowed to Caudery, as well as to Laing & Campbell—that was an understood thing; I was to pay the 1 per cent, to both of them; it was done with my sanction—in 1855 I commenced refining saltpetre—it was discussed between myself and Mr. Crowther in order to meet the loss that had been sustained on the dishonoured bills,

which were the occasion of my getting into Mr. Crowther's debt, and in order to clear off that I began the saltpetre-refining business—I should think I had incurred a loss of 800l. in respect of that transaction—I never spoke to Mr. Laing for years afterwards; he is mistaken when he says I did—I transacted the business, connected with the saltpetre, with Mr. Cowther—I purchased some goods through Mr. Crowther from a person named Hinton, about a year or so after commencing the saltpetre trade—that is a matter of memory only—they were invoiced to me by Hinton—some dispute arose respecting the quality—that transaction had nothing whatever to do with Laing & Co.—Hinton was partially paid in refined saltpetre—that was the reference made to Hinton's account in the letters—the arrangement with Crowther was, that I was to sell the saltpetre in any way I could, but the sale was to be through Laing's books; in fact, they were to be the ostensible sellers, and 1 percent was to be paid on the whole—in many cases they sold, themselves—if I sold goods through Laing & Co., Mr. Cowther had no commission whatever on that, but he was to Have 5l. on any goods which I sold not through Laing & Co.—an account was arranged between us, which was to be kept in this book (produced), for the purpose of reducing the old account, for the repayment of the money which he had advanced—that was from time to time mentioned between us, in order to evidence that fact—I sent in goods to other persons besides Laing & Co.; to Mr. Crowther's brother, and, I think, to Mr. Caudery—Charles Crowther is a brother of the prisoner—he was not a broker at that time—I presume he was then what he is now, a merchant dealing on his own account—latterly he has bad a warehouse, to which my goods were sent—when I sent these goods to Caudery, and to Crowther, I did not inform Goodburn of the fact, nor any one at Laing & Co's.—I sent some to Caudery warehouse at Mr. Crowther's request—I paid Crowther's brother and Caudery 1 percent, in addition to the 5l. per ton, on the reduction of the account, and 1 percent for sales—in 1857 I remember proposing to extend my premises—at that time I had made, through Laing & Co., a purchase of saltpetre, and it was out of the purchase of that saltpetre that I anticipated the funds—before the cargoes, or any of them, arrived I had expended money on my premises—I have no doubt that that fact was often talked over between Goodburn, Mr. Crowther, and myself—I cannot remember any particular time—an arrangement was made that I should have what saltpetre I required, and when the profit was realised—on the other it would set the account right again—the profits were certain if the ships had arrived—we thought the insurance covered it—I got warrants in pursuance of that arrangement—I can only state what the amount was by stating what the balance would be at the end of the year; it would be somewhere about 3,000l.—I deposited nothing as security against that especially—it was out of the produce of those warrants that I was able to lay out the money upon my premises—I was applied to, from time to time, by both Crowther and Goodburn, to repay this money—I was not able to do so—several times I said that it would be better to lay the whole affair before Mr. Laing, and take his advice, and see what he would wish to do—both the prisoners always objected to that being done.

MR. CHAMBERS. Q. Did you speak to them when they were together or alone? A. Both alone and together; it was a matter of repeated conversation.

MR. JAMES. Q. And on each occasion they objected to your mentioning it? A. Always—I remember receiving the letter of Crowther, of 19th

November, 1860, which refers to the accommodating party being imperiled—that was in reply to a letter from me—in consequence of that I refrained from mentioning the matter to Laing & Co.—the prisoners were constantly calling upon me—I pointed out the propriety of laying the matter before Mr. Laing, as I thought instead of getting better it was getting worse—that was at the latter end of' 59 or the beginning of 1860—it was shortly before something was done about some warrants which were placed in Caudery's hands to be handed over to me—that was in September, 1860, I think—the arrangement was simply, that Caudery was to sell me the saltpetre, which he did, and duly invoiced it, and I was to pay Caudery for it—that arrangement was made by Crowther, Goodburn, and Caudery—the saltpetre was to be sold and invoiced to me by Caudery, and I was to pay him for it—he was in the habit of buying part of the warrants, and part he had from Mr. Laing; some were Mr. Laing's, and some his; but in the market Mr. Laing held them for me; they were to be handed over to Caudery—Caudery handed them to me, and invoiced the goods to me that I was to buy—that continued from September to 24th March; I am not clear about the year, but I think it was 1861; until, in fact, the discovery of this—to the best of my recollection the whole of the saltpetre was delivered to Caudery, and he executed any orders that Laing might have—I have no doubt that was how it was all disposed of—the saltpetre was not to be found when the vessels arrived, so that the profit vanished entirely; it was non est—I remember receiving the letter of October, 1857, from Crowther, which begins, "The contracts made by me some time ago are becoming dangerous"—I think they were contracts made by Crowther on his own account, still that is only a matter of memory; they were not contracts that I had made with Mr. Laing—I have heard something about Caudery having paid a composition; I do not know when—I recollect receiving a draft of a letter, which I was to write and address to Goodburn—this is it—I received it from Goodburn, and wrote the letter—I have not seen that letter since it Goodburn'a possession; I know he got it, because Mr. Sleigh produced it before the Lord Mayor, and read it—(MR. WONTNER JUN. proved the service of a notice upon the defendant's solicitor to produce this letter)—matters went on in this way till March, 1862, when these affairs were discovered, and my account was closed—I remember receiving a letter from Crowther, on 20th March, beginning, "I have not seen Mr. Goodburn this morning"—I have seen Crowther since then, to the best of my belief twice—at the commencement of these transactions I was in the habit of meeting Crowther in Messrs. Laing's sample room; afterwards I was introduced to Mr. Merridew, who was then a clerk in the house, and transacted business with him—I know Mr. Adams' office, in Fenchurch-stceet—I know Mr. Adams very well—I met the prisoners there frequently—I was in the habit of going there and lending a note over to them—I did not go to Mr. Laing's office, because they were in constant fear that they should be found out, and requested me to meet them elsewhere—there is not a Miss Adams; the "Miss A." referred to in one of the letters if my housekeeper—I recollect the latter part of 1859, when Mr. Campbell was about to retire from the business—I remember the letter which begins, "I have had a plain straightforward talk with Mr. Goodburn"—the state of my account was a matter constantly discussed—there was a proposition made by both the defendants, which was, that they should land me 1,000l., and that I should reduce my account 1,000l. more—they stated that—that amount was so paid to Laing & Co. on my account; 500l. by each—this letter refers to certain twenty-five tons

which I was then engaged upon—I was engaged at that time In manufacturing saltpetre—that twenty-five tons could not be delivered that year—the prisoners told me that they Should give credit for the twenty-five tons before the actual delivery.

MR. CHAMBERS. Q. A letter is mentioned here, beginning, "According to the plan originally expressed;" have you that letter? A. No; I have no letter—if such a letter is in existence, Messrs. Laing most have it—I gave them up the whole of my papers.

MR. JAMES. Q. Was there a discussion verbally between you as to these twenty-five tons being carried into effect? A. Yes; it forms the latter moiety—there was a verbal agreement respecting that—with respect to the 500l. which they said had been paid, Crowther's 500l. was to be debited in his book, in the account current between him and me—I don't suppose I could point out the payment in the book—I should not think it is entered in one sum—I don't think it is here—I remember the fire at Cotton's-wharf in 1861—there was an account of a loss there—Crowther spoke to me about it—the communication was that the result of the accounts sent in to the Royal Exchange Insurance Company showed that there would be 150l. more to my credit then the absolute loss I had sustained, and he proposed that as my account would be better by that amount, I should be in a position to pay him and Goodburn towards the reduction of their accounts, in equal sums of 75l. each—he proposed they should each have half—I accordingly arranged to pay them, and I gave these cheques which have produced—the bodies of these two cheques to Crowther are written by himself, and of the other two, one is written by Crowther, and one by myself—these cheques were handed over to the defendants—I cannot say to which they were given, one or the other—I did not give them 2l. 10s. more—the saltpetre at that time was not worth the money they charged me for it, and therefore I declined to pay any more—I mean that the saltpetre was bought by Messre. Laing immediately—at the same time they gave me this document (produced)—it is all figures—I can't say in whose hand writing it is—it is a species of invoice—I think I received the warrants by post sent by Cowther—this is the document which I first received—I cannot swear to this red ink writing at the bottom.

SETON LAING (re-examined). The red ink writing here is Crowther's.

HENRY BARBER (continued). Having received that, I subseqnently obtained two warrants, by post—this is one of them (produced)—received the goods upon both warrants—I refused to pay the 150l. unless I received a warrant to that amount, upon which these warrants were given, amounting to 184l. 16s. 6d—having got the warrants, and paid these four cheques, I got the goods—the consideration for the warrants was the money—the saltpetre which I got is the saltpetre which I complained of as not worth so much, and I refused, therefore, to pay the 2l. 10s.—the market had fallen in the interval—that sentence in one of the letters, "You talk about loss; why it was all pure gain, or rather impure," cannot apply to any other transaction except that—I only had communication with Goodburn with respect to these warrants, by sending him the cheques—I did not have any conversation with Goodburn, with respect to the cheques, to my remembrance.

SETON LAING (re-examined). The figurers in this invoice are Goodburn's.

HENRY BARBER (continued). I had no communication with Goodburn with respect to the claim on the insurance office, that I remember—this account is Goodburn's handwriting, and it is his account—it was sent to me—it has the credit items there; August—27th and 28th, 50l. and 10s.—those

are two of the cheques—May 13th, 1862, is the date of this—that was the last transaction with Mr. Goodburn—this is made out as a debit and credit interest account, just the same as others—I have not paid Messrs. Laing and Co., and am, unfortunately, not able to pay them anything like the amount.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEAT BALLANTINE Q. I think you stated you had known Crowther some time, and that before you bad any transaction with Laing you owed him something like 120l.? A. Yes; and subsequently I became indebted to him, I think, about 500l., making a total of 600l.—that was the entire amount I was indebted to him up to that period certainly—it was all paid at one time within 50l.—I am in his debt now, for money he paid to Laing and Campbell—the balance of the account rendered by himself, as near as I can remember, is 350l., so that 250l. is the amount of reduction from the original debt; that would be about it—I was not acting with these people in any design to defraud Laing; I had no such intention—I was not at all assisting to cover my account with any view of concealing it from Laing—I had no motive or wish to conceal the account from Laing, and I would at any moment have given Mr. Laing any information he desired—it is not true that Mr. Laing has frequently complained to me of the state of my account—I have no remembrance of such a thing; to me personally he did not until the matter came to be found out—it is not true that over and over again, for years, he was in the habit of calling my attention to the state of the account; that is utterly untrue; nothing of the kind, if you are speaking of me personally—Mr. Laing and I never had any conversation about it, any further than he might have said, "How are you getting on with your account?" but we never entered into particulars, nor did be ask me as to the state of my account—there was an understanding between myself and Mr. Crowther that all the business should be passed through Mr. Laing, and, where it was necessary, that I should employ subordinate agents, still Mr. Laing should have his brokerage—Goodburn and Crowther both knew that; it was an understood thing—of course I maintained that arrangement—I did not always buy through Laing, I bought through other parties—I should think, if the agreement was construed strictly, that would not be in compliance with the understanding—Mr. Laing was not acquainted with the fact that I did so—I don't know whether Mr. Laing knew personally that I employed other persons, but his servants must have known, and did know it—I did deal directly with Caudery in this way for many years—it was done through Crowther, be saw Caudery—within the last two years I have done it myself and Caudery had his brokerage, because be held a great part of the trade in his own hands, and I could not have sold it—two percent was charged on the sale, and one on the purchase—I had large transactions—if I ever received money from Messrs. Laing, it was under 50l., but I don't think I ever did receive any; no, I never received any—it would have been impossible for me to have worked my business without their capital—that was perfectly known from the commencement—it was not known to Mr. Laing, but it was to Crowther and Goodburn—it is quite clear that, unless I got advances on the prompt and an uncovered account amounting to a certain extent, I could not work my business—I being the manufacturer, and bringing the refined petre into the market, after the goods were manufactured, I always had the conveyance, either through Laing, or some other person getting the money—they were cashed to me—I got the advances immediately—there was not an extra per centage when I sold through Laing—if I sold through Caudery or others, I

still paid Mr. Laing one percent—My expenses were about 70l. or 80l. weekly—I don't think Laing knew anything about my business—I did not come in contact with him for years, not to speak to him on business—at one time I thought everything was brought round—I conveyed that impression to Crowther and Goodburn—they knew it as well as I did—the constant subject of conversation between us was bow my account could be set right with their employers—as far as they were personally concerned, they got nothing out of these transactions, to my knowledge; certainly not with any collusion with me—that I answer distinctly, and not to ay own knowledge, any further than helping me to liquidate Mr. Laing's account; beyond that, I know of no benefit positively which they have derived from their transactions with me—the period when I expected to get out of my difficulty was at the time the cargoes of petre were injured and destroyed—it then appeared certain that there would be from 3,000l. to 4,000l. on that transaction—the petre was sold and insured, and the profit absolutely made, and in my communications with Goodburn and Crowther I treated this as an ascertained fact; and there was every reason for them to believe it to be so—I thought the money was as safe as if it was in a bank—that would have enabled me to pay every single farthing I owed to Laing—that was my full intention, to close my business and pay every farthing—I directed Mr. Merridew to insure the cargo—it was insured, but when the vessels came in with the cargo washed out, I found the insurance was of no value—I cannot explain what I don't understand—I am not an fait at insurance matters—I left it to Mr. Merridew, and whether it was his fault or anybody else's, the underwriters would not pay the insurance; there was, therefore, a tremendous loss, instead of a gain, which I had foolishly anticipated, as then I could have disposed of my plant and property, and everything else—the expression in one of the letters about some contract becoming dangerous, was not clear to me when I received the letter, bat I have heard the matter discussed since—it appears to me clear now, that that contract was shifted to Laing and Campbell at that time, to saddle them with the loss—there was a loss in the difference of price—there would have been an actual gain, providing Mr. Caudery had not failed.

COURT. Q. Can you give us the date of Caudery's failure? A. No.

Cross-examined by MR. MONTAGUE CHAMBERS. Q. You never knew Mr. Goodburn, I think, until you had entered into the arrangements with Laing? A. I never knew him until I was introduced to Messrs. Laing, and had no kind of knowledge or acquaintance with him—I never knew of his existence—he did not, to my knowledge, derive one single farthing advantage from any connexion with me—my accounts, increased from time to time—I made memorandums of the amounts, fancying I might be asked the question—in 1853, it was l, 100l—neither Mr. Laing or his partners ever came to me and told me that was too high an amount, but Mr. Crowther and Mr. Goodburn had repeatedly done so—the account was afterwards reduced as low as 700l.—it is a long while to refer back; but I have no doubt whatever, that it was Mr. Crowther and Mr. Goodburn who pressed me and occasioned me to make the reduction—the real difficulty was created by that loss of 3,000l. or 4,000l.—it was a very heavy loss—anterior to that, Goodburn had inquired about my affairs, as to my means of paying the previous balances, and I informed both him and Crowther that I was perfectly solvent and able to pay: I considered that I was at that time, not withstanding that Goodburn from time to time pressed me to reduce my balance—my transactions in saltpetre were large—I was to pay with refilled

saltpetre for the raw which I got, and what I might tell directly, I would hand over the cash for, or my agents would hand it over on my account—I could not carry on my business without baring a large quantity of raw saltpetre in trust—I could not make the quantity and return it in refined saltpetre—it is quite clear that unless Crowther and Goodburn had furnished me with very large quantities, I could not hare carried on my business for a week—I don't think Mr. Laing troubled himself about the quantity I had, or the other partners in the house—when they saw that I was carrying on transactions to the extent of 15,000l. a year, of course they must have known that I was refining large quantities of saltpetre, and that I should require large quantities of raw to be entrusted to me—it might have been understood that I was to deal with nobody for saltpetre except Laing, and I should not consider myself justified in buying any large quantity from anybody else—in the first instance, the matter was arranged with Crowther and Goodburn, but not afterwards—I did not see the principals of the firm when my transactions commenced—if Mr. Laing said so, he must have made a mistake—I did not see either of the principals, neither Mr. Campbell or Mr. Laing—I know Mr. Campbell very well, but we never talked on business—I knew him about a year or two years before the dissolution of partnership—of course be knew I was dealing with the firm—I did not enter into details with him as to the terms—of course he knew I had the refining manufactory—in general conversation, I have no doubt that I told him that I was making such and each a quantify—I must have done so—I never told him about the arrangements I had made with Crowther—I don't think it probable that any of the partners ever asked me who it was who was making the arrangements with me at to buying and selling—Mr. Merridew used to do the business with me, but at that time he was not a partner—he bought and sold for me; it came to be rather a large concern—the purchases were sometimes very extensive—I have always consulted him in the business since he has become a partner—he became a partner when Mr. Campbell went out in 1860—Merridew used to tend me the bought and told notes signed by himself or Mr. Laing—my dealings have been with Merridew from the time he became a partner, in that way—if we had order, which was generally the case, the goods were delivered directly to the parties buying if not they were warehoused—we got orders from Laing & Co. to deliver them to the purchaser when sold, so that they never came into their possession at all or their warehouseman—it was done in this way; Laing or some of my agents would get orders for a quantity of saltpetre, either to be shipped or delivered to the various buyers in London; I then delivered it according to the orders, and returned Mr. Laing a note of such delivery—the orders to deliver would come either through Crowther or Goodburn—Mr. Merridew did not countersign the delivery orders of "refined"—the order would come generally with him, and I should deliver it to our customers; they would get their percentage—previous to that form of letter which was drawn by Goodburn, the state of my affairs was a matter constantly discussed; never a week passed but we talked about it—I certainly staled before that what my property was, so as to make me solvent—it was in writing that letter that Goodburn and I disagreed—I was solvent, taking the goods at their fair value, but if I was broken up at once, then I should not be solvent—if I could have done that at that time, which was in the summer of 1859, I should have been perfectly solvent—I owed Mr. Laing about 6,000l. at that time according to the account—at that time the amount of the whole of the contracts which I did with Mr. Merridew was. in much as 20,000l. a year; in 1859 we were in full work—

if that trade had been continued at that rate, the returns would have been from 500l. to 800l. a week; the purchases would hare been about 500l. a week, through Merridew—he acted as the broker—this paper (produced) in my writing—I know it perfectly—this is supposing it was disposed of at I told you—about 19th July, 1859, I had saltpetre in hand to the value of 2,000l.—that paper is correct, it is a letter of mine to Goodburn, a mere memorandum, a rough statement—the saltpetre I had was then in process—I had tartaric acid worth 700l.—the metallic lead on the premises I estimated at l, 000l., and there was what yon call the plant, but I had other things comprised in the plant—then I estimated the building, the freehold estate, plus a mortgage I had upon it, as worth 500l.; and steam engines, boilers, and other plant, 1,500l.—there was another small factory, which I estimated at about 800l., that was all—the total is 6,500l.—that is 500l. beyond the 6,000l. which I then owed, always supposing that we found a customer to sell it to—that 2,000l. worth of saltpetre which was them in progress, was afterwards delivered by Mr. Laing's order to his customers, and it was replaced again by more rough from them—this saltpetre would be delivered weekly, and I should receive a further weekly quantity from them—as I sent off the refined, I should keep receiving raw; to keep my works going—Mr. Merridew knew, as well as I did, the profits I expected from buying that saltpetre to arrive—he bought the petre and it was sold through their house—of course I told Crowther and Goodburn as well—every one knew it, because it was such a large profit that everybody was talking about it—it was at a time when saltpetre was becoming very valuable—the habit was, as soon as the contract was effected by Mr. Merridew, to debit one with the amount—I was debited in their ledger as though it had been actually delivered—as the time went on, Goodburn became more and more anxious about the heaviness of my account, and more and more alarmed—at one time it was arranged that he should send an accountant to look at my accounts—he did so; a Mr. Du Pre, and he was there going through the accounts for me a month or six weeks—he came for the purpose of seeing that the business I was doing was all right—that was in the summer of 1859—I was never satisfied with the way in which the account was managed, and it was at my wish as much as Goodburn's that it was done—at that time, independent of my position as a solvent man, I could have paid off, by the assistance of some other person, Laing's account—I could have got somebody to help me, if there had not been the dread of bringing it before Mr. Laing—that is to say I could hare received that amount of accommodation, and paid for it in that way, which would have given me a sufficient sum to liquidate their debt.

Q. Then you must, of course, have dealt with other persons, and they would have lost their 2 percent? A. That would have been the inducement—at that time Mr. Goodburn often pressed upon me to get a partner, but I objected to it—I do not like partners—he proposed that I should take a partner so that Laing might be paid—the advance of the 1,000l. by Crowther and Goodburn was after this, in November or December—they were to advance 500l. each, and I was to advance another 1,000l. to reduce the account; that was the plan that was proposed—it was agreed that the paying of this 2000l. was not to effect my payments at all—I was to do all I could to reduce the account lower—it was mentioned how Goodburn was to be repaid; he was to have another factory of which I was in possession, made over to him by way of security—it was to be a bond fide sale sale to him—I was to secure him by a positive sale of the property, putting him in possession—

it was a factory detached from mine, 3 or 400 yards off—that had nothing to do with Laing's transactions, it was part of my general property—that is the factory which I estimated worth 800l.—a solicitor named Kiley drew up the deeds—Goodburn referred me to Mr. Kiley—Goodburn stipulated at that time that I should also give a bond to pay Laing, and after the lapse of a period of I cannot exactly say how long, wished to reassign the property to me on condition of my mortgaging it to a building society, of which I think he was a member, which was done—he reassigned it to me, and then the building society advanced 500l. on the mortgage—I never recovered the money—there is now 250l. owing to him, I think, I acknowledge that—he has no security for that—I do not know that Goodburn raised that 500l. for the advantage of Laing & Co. with the greatest difficulty, by selling some little houses he had—I do not know how he got it; I rather think I was told Mr. Crowther lent it to him—he did not tell me that it was with the greatest difficulty he raised it; he did not enter into particulars how he raised it—the premises, plant, and stock, began to depreciate from July 1860—at the end of 1859, I had had delivered to me 1,000l. worth of saltpetre; that was in progress of refinement at the end of the year, although it was not delivered—the petre delivered to me in December would be in progress of refinement in the following month, but the system was, to put in more saltpetre every week and take refined out every week—I cannot identify any particular petre—I got accounts current sent to me from time to time, very irregularly, about once a year, I should think, on an average; in some years there might perhaps have been two sent—they were sent to me by Mr. Merridew, who was acting as the broker, and buying and selling for me—Mr. Merridew never complained to me that he had not bad the accounts current submitted to him, nor did any of the partners—I went on for a number of years doing these large transactions, and neither of the partners ever complained to me that they had not signed the accounts current—in 1857, there was a clerk in the firm named Walker; I do not remember the date exactly—I remember his acting as book-keeper very well—whilst he was so doing, I went on in precisely the same way, receiving the warrants and getting the saltpetre—I was aware that Mr. Goodburn was very much engaged in that great fraudulent bankruptcy of Windle Cole's—it did not trouble me, and perhaps I did not go to Laing's house more than two or three times a year—the business was principally done by Crowther through Mr. Merridew, and all the money matters through Goodburn—besides paying in refined saltpetre, considerable sums would be paid in cash by some of my agents—I would not take upon myself to say what amount, but large sums of money—that would include cash paid by the persons who bought the refined saltpetre—of course the percentage would come on that to Laing—it was in 1861, I think, that Caudery owed Mr. Laing about 900l—from 1859 Mr. Goodburn got so alarmed, that he managed the concern in such a way as to continue a system of ruinous losses—I pressed that it should be laid before the house, which they refused—I said, "If that cannot be done, put it into the hands of a man of business, and put an end to any further losses—Mr. Caudery was then agreed upon as the man of business, and that was how the arrangement came to be made—Caudery was to pay the money to Laing, and be answerable to them, instead of relying upon me—it was nothing whatever to do with me, they looked to Mr. Caudery for the money, and that debt of 900l. was incurred in that way—Mr. Goodburn before that got alarmed, and acted like a madman—it was because he said, "We will not let yon have so much" that the ruinous losses were incurred

—it stopped the concern altogether—of course he pressed me, and said I must pay and reduce the account—that is what he always kept at—he also said that if the concern was stopped it would be ruinous to himself—he said that be should be dismissed if it was discovered that he had given me credit—he said that repeatedly, and that was the reason it was not brought before Mr. Laing—I said the only way the concern would be enabled to pay Messrs. Laing was by carrying it on, by supplying large quantities to refine—Goodburn refused to do that, and that is what I call carrying it on at a ruinous loss, and the next project was that Mr. caudery should be the purchaser, so as to give the funds over to pay Messrs. Laing—the balance of the account is stated to be 6,500l.—up to July, 1859, the account was kept in a very unsatisfactory way to me, simply because I did not know the way in which broker's books were kept, by making the purchase, debiting me with the goods, and never delivering them—I have even gone so far as to say, I did not believe that I had received the warrants so charged—very likely I had not—I then proposed that an accountant should be called in, and that I should have satisfactory proof of each delivery, that the saltpetre had been delivered to me that was charged to me in these accounts current, and that I pressed on Goodburn and Crowther twenty times—I cannot answer as to the amount of the commission and interest, without having the accounts before me—I had the accounts current delivered to me—I have not taken the trouble to examine whether the large balance which out claimed is made up principally of commission and of interest—I have not gone into the question of commission—I did not presume to tell Goodburn how he was to keep his books—I said it was totally unsatisfactory to me—according to my notion it was wrong to enter to my debit sums for which purchases were made before I bad actually got the goods, but that seems to be the broker's system; Goodburn told me so.—I afterwards stopped the system—I will not venture to say as to the particular date, but I believe that it was about July, 1869, that that plan was discontinued; I know it was very shortly after—if the books are here they will at once show when it was, and if I bad been at home, I could at once have stated—I am not prepared to say from memory whether up to that time the accounts had been carried on on that system—I was charged interest on the yearly balances—I was not called upon to take the trouble of ascertaining whether the bulk of the large balance against me was made up of commission and interest—I could make a mental calculation of it in five minutes—it must be a very large sum for interest and commission—taking it from the time when the balance was 6,000l., there would be 300l. a year for interest; then taking the yearly return, there would be 2 per cent. on that—adding the interest at the end of the year to the principal, and taking the compound interest, it would bring it to a very large sum—I am not now carrying on my business—no one is doing so—I am living upon some little money which I bare got—my expenses are very trifling—the works are shut up—I shut them up about February—when I say that, I wish U be perfectly clear, I am paying the wages of two or three men whom I do not choose to part with, and who are leading men in the factory—I have not told that to Messrs. Laing—it is no business of theirs that I know of—Messrs. Laing have not asked me to pay something off their account—Mr. Merridew has not done so—I have not offered to pay anything—the plant is still there—Messrs. Laing have not applied to me to ask how much I could pay off the debt, if I sold the manufactory—I have had no negotiation of that kind with them—the men I retain on the premises merely job about the place, and sweep it up—there are three or

four steam engines there—if anyone says that last week the steam engines were working, so as to be seen by people going by, it is a direct falsehood; I should think they did not take a single round—the fires were lighted—we always keep the steam up—if large wooden premises like those, saturated with saltpetre, were not kept warm and dry, they would rot, and everything would be destroyed—I am keeping it dry on the same principle as a nobleman would heat a greenhouse—the cost of doing so is about 10s. or 11s. a week—that has been going on from the 20th of last January until the week before last, when I got fairly tired of it, thinking this matter would never come to an end, and I bought another quantity of rough saltpetre, and thought the men might as well earn their money—I have began to work in a small way within the last fourteen days, but two months before that, it was for the mere sake of keeping it dry—I have been working some saltpetre within the last fortnight—I bought the saltpetre of Mr. White of Mincing-lane—I worked out some stock and exchanged it—I gave the refined saltpetre which I had in stock, and took the rough—I worked it previously to January 20th—the great difficulty is here, you think I am fencing with the questions—there were twenty or thirty leads crystallised with saltpetre—one of those I took, put the finishing touch to it, handed it over to a broker, received the value in rough saltpetre, and replaced it—it was part of the stock that was in existence—the stock which was there in March, 1862, would be fairly worked out and replaced with fresh saltpetre—between March, 1862, and the present time, I have delivered saltpetre, and had fresh rough saltpetre delivered on my premises—that was stopped on the 20th of January last, or at the beginning of February, and nothing was done until sixteen days ago—when the stoppage took place on the 20th January, I had a stock amounting perhaps to ten or a dozen tons—that would be worth, in refined saltpetre, about 400l.—I have not delivered anything like the 400l. worth out—the amount which has passed through my premises since has been very trifling—I think the total produce since January has not exceeded 130l.—the portion which has been delivered is worked out, and for the remainder Mr. White holds his warrant—I have only dealt with Mr. White—he is a broker in Mincing-lane—I do not know whether he is acquainted with Messrs. Laing, I have seen him there—I know it is not Hall and White—I know that there is a Mr. Hall, one of Messrs. Laing's clerks—it was Hall and White—I presume it ceased to be so when Mr. Hall entered Messrs. Laing's service—that would be in March, at the time Mr. Crowther left—that was when he took his place—I first applied to Mr. Merridew for him to let me have saltpetre—he would not let me have it—Mr. Merridew did not ask me how much I could pay off their debt—he did not inquire at all into my circumstances, not until this matter came out—I believe they thought it was a total loss—they never inquired how much I could pay in the pound.

Q. How is it that you have escaped being prosecuted as a conspirator? A. Not being a lawyer, I am not cognizant of the law—they knew better than to threaten me—I have not been made a bankrupt.

Q. You hope to struggle on? A. I rather fancy that that is my private affair—my real intention is, most assuredly, to go through the Bankruptcy Court, because I will be clear of these difficulties—I have no creditors except Messrs. Laing, and Mr. Caudery of any amount—I delivered over the documents I had in my possession, to Mr. Laing, the morning after Mr. Crowther had gone into Mr. Laing's counting-house—that would be somewhere between the 24th of March and the 1st of April—I delivered over all that was of any consequence, to Mr. Laing at once—he kept bothering and tormenting

menting me for months afterwards, whether I had any further documents, but he had got all that were of any consequence, and I told him I could give him no further information—I did not attend in the police-court on the first appearance of the prisoners—some of Messrs. Laing's people applied to me to attend as a witness—I had not then any documents in my possession—I did not produce them at the police-court—Mr. Laing produced many of the documents which he had in his possession—I have not got any documents in my possession now that I know of—I have looked at the document which has been produced; I would not swear to the figures—Mr. Laing and I had a dispute about it this very morning, and we cannot agree—I think, on looking at the figures, that they are in Crowther's handwriting—figures are curious things to swear to—I think I have not expressed any opinion as to their being in Crowther's handwriting before to-day—I should be inclined to say that the document is in Crowther's handwriting, but I will not be sure of it—the dispute this morning was that Mr. Laing said he was satisfied that they were Crowther's writing—I did not acquiesce in that—I do not think that he or anybody knows—I have seen this document before twenty times—I saw it at the police-court—I never was asked the question whether the figures were in the handwriting of Crowther until yesterday—I never made it a matter of thought whether the figures were in Crowther's handwriting—I never dreamt of such a thing; it was a matter of perfect indifference to me—when I first saw it I did not notice the figures at all—I will not swear that I never said I believed the figures were Crowther's—I will state that to the best of my belief I never said so—I cannot tell what may have passed in a casual conversation.

MR. BESLEY. Q. How came the balance of your account with Crowther to be increased to 600l.? A. I sold Messrs. Foot a quantity of tartaric acid, and drew upon them for the amount at three months—part of these bills were passed through Messrs. Laing's, part Mr. Crowther got discounted for me—Messrs. Foot failed—he then said it would be a ruinous matter for any of the bills to be returned to Messrs Laing, and it would be ruinous to me; he would therefore come forward and advance the money and take up the bills, and take whatever dividend there was from Foot's estate, leaving me his debtor afterwards—that increased the balance to 600l.—I subsequently brought it down to 50l.—it was swollen again to 550l. by the payments to Messrs. Laing—the amount of 550l. was reduced to 350l.—I have not gone through the account myself, but Mr. Crowther's-account shows 350l.—since the account has been reduced to 50l. I have not paid Crowther 5l. a ton and interest and commission in addition—during the whole time of the account running, I paid Crowther for discount of bills generally at 5 percent on the transaction; if I drew a 100l. bill for three months, I should pay 5 per cent, that would be 20 percent per annum—I paid Crowther 5l. a ton on a given quantity of saltpetre, which he applied to the liquidation of the 600l.—the interest was charged in the accounts—2 1/2 percent, was paid in addition, upon my sales of tartaric acid—it was put in his accounts—during all the time this was going on Crowther never told me that Mr. Laing had been willing that his balance should be uncovered to the extent of 500l.—according to his representation, the dealing with Laing and Company was only to be in cash—I cannot tell how much I paid Crowther for discounting bills, without looking through the accounts—it would be a considerable sum of money altogether during the time the account was running—the 2 1/2 percent. was not on account of Messrs. Laing at all, but for Crowther personally—I know of purchase of tartar from Crowther—there were communications

between me and Crowther in respect of the value of that tartar—we disputed as to the qualities—he said that the quality was bad, and that it would have to be exchanged, or some allowance would have to be made on it—I did not get any allowance or exchange from Crowther—it was one of the conditions of his paying Foot's bills, that I should forego any claim for remuneration on the bad tartar—at that time I was very ill, and confined to my bed—taking my foreman's representation of it, who was a practised hand at tartaric acid, I should say the loss would amount to 500l. or 600l., or more altogether—that would be the special lose upon the qualities—exclusive of that, there would be a further loss that would bring it up to 1,000l.—it never came to a claim against Crowther—Crowther sold the tartar to me through Messrs Laing—at that time he was in Messrs. Laing's service—I told Crowther that I was about to make a claim on Messrs. Laing—he told me that it would seriously injure him with Messrs. Laing, inasmuch as he was not allowed to do business on his own account—Messrs. Foot failed just about that time, so that that at once would settle the tartar matter—I could not carry on the concern without capital, or having an uncovered advance—I was not at any time aware that Laing and Company had consented to my having credit to any Amount—neither Lang nor Crowther ever told me so—with reference to the lots of the cargo of saltpetre, I had given directions to Mr. Merridew to insure in the usual way I did not suppose that more was necessary—with reference to the contract which was shifted from Mr. Caudery to Messrs. Laing, I do not profess to have the matter at my fingers' ends—the dealings with Messrs. Laing were upon a credere commission, so that, upon any sales made to insolvent parties, they were answerable, and I should not lose the amount.

COURT. Q. How have you ascertained that the object of the contract being shifted from Mr. Caudery to Messrs Laing, was to saddle Messrs, Laing with the loss? A. Simply when the matter was discussed in the Lord Mayor's Court.

MR. BESLEY. Q. At the time you were representing the value of your property at 6,500l., did it occur to you that that was a large amount? A. It did—I merely put the figures down as an approximation from memory—they were not absolutely taken from the books—they were pot down at the full amount of the cost, as near as I could give it—an advance was made upon the premises considerably beyond their full value—they have been attempted to be sold since, and a bidding could not be obtained—if you apply the doctrine that the worth of anything is as much as it will bring, the premises would be worth nothing, because a bidding could not be obtained—the value of the property would depend on how it was sold—if the plant was taken at a valuation, the same money would be given for it that it had cost, because you would expect something for your business; if a London brewery were broken up next week and sold by auction, it would not fetch 10 percent, of its cost—in March, 1862, the depreciation in the stock would be very much—with respect to the plant, there would be the wear and tear, perhaps 1,000l. or 1,500l—I have not been in a situation to work it since.

Q. How much did Crowther and Goodburn let you have in the six months succeeding July, 1859? A. I could not tell that from memory—the arrangement about Caudery being the person to take the warrants, and conduct the sales, took place, I think, in September, 1861, but there are numbers of documents there that will prove—from July, 1859, the balance due to Laing and Company was about 7,000l., and in July, 1860, it was 7,500l.—I cannot tell what was the uncovered balance at each of those times—

the advance of the two sums of 500l. by the prisoners was in December, 1859, or January, 1860—in taking the balance of July, 1859, and looking at the increase of the debt in September, 1861, that 1,000l. must be added—you must also add the 1,000l. for stock taken into account in Messrs. Laing's books which had not been delivered, and which was delivered in the following January—the arrangement about Caudery making the sales was in September, 1861—I could not tell the uncovered balance at Laing's at that time, as it would be in the middle of the year, when the books were not made up—from the time when Caudery took it up, I think that Laing and Company got no commission—part of the saltpetre which I worked up for Caudery, and which he sold, was represented by warrants obtained from Laing, and part Caudery, went into the market and purchased on his own account—I have had an account with Caudery for years—from memory I should say I owe him 2,000l. or 2,200l.—I owed him a great deal more than that in March, 1862—from the time of Messrs, Laing throwing it up, the works were conducted through Caudery, up to the beginning of February—since then I have had the single transaction with Mr. White—I know that Laing and Co. have not had anything to do with the transaction I have had with White, because I asked them to do it themselves—in March, 1862, at the time when Messrs. Laing made this discovery, if the concern had been properly wound up, I think 4,000l. might have been got for it—that includes everything; it would have been 4,000l. upon a debt of 9,500l., being 8s. or 9s. in the pound—that is, supposing it to be sold properly and at that time—provided it was properly done, it could be managed without expense—my estate at the present time would not pay more than the dividend I have mentioned—I was present when a person came from Laing and Company the premises to value the stock Messrs. Laing's system is, that the moment they make a purchase they debit the party with it—about 1860, that system was stopped upon my representation—they would debit me with it when the prompt had expired; I am not quite clear about it—I think it is when the purchase is made—I am not sure.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Did you not obtain a cheque from Caudery to meet a cheque you had given (handing a letter to the witness of the 20th of August. A. If the cheque is dated the 19th August, that would be so—Caudery at that time furnished me with all my funds-since these affairs I carried on the whole of the business through him—I should think I have paid him 1,300l. or 1,400l.—I paid that by reducing the stock of saltpetre in my own hands—I included the stock in my calculation of 10s. in the pound.

MR. CHAMBERS. Q. When you got the two warrants of Messrs, Laing which have been referred to, the two warrants of Caudery, did not you replace them by refined saltpetre which you bad got? A. Certainly not; I had no transaction with Messrs. Laing afterwards—Caudery was regularly supplying me with warrants—I got them weekly and daily—I did not send any refined saltpetre afterwards to Messrs. Laing—that was the last transaction with them; than the arrangements took place with Caudery.

COURT. Q. What was the amount of the debt to Goodburn? A. About 250l.—I am speaking from memory—the sum he advanced was 500l.—then had as a security the property I had valued at 800l.—he re-assigned the property to me, and I borrowed 500l. from a Building Society on the houses and the factory—Goodburn received the 500l.—he paid off a debt due to the Building Society on some former transaction, which had taken place years before, and the balance he gave me credit for in reduction of

his debt—there was a previous mortgage on the property I valued at 800l.—I valued at that time my stock and premises—that is what I put the 800l. for—I conveyed to Goodburn the buildings and the plant, but none of the stock—he has given me credit for that sum, and there are some other payments which he has given me credit for.

THOMAS GONGER MERRIDEW . I was for many years a clerk in the employment of Laing and Company—I became a partner on Mr. Campbell going out in January, 1860—before I was a partner I acted as market-clerk—Crowther was the other market-clerk—the dealings in tartaric acid and saltpetre were in his department—up to the time of my being a partner I had nothing to do with the books—the only book that came to my charge was the contract-book—I had no access to the ledger or to the security box—before I was a partner I was not at all aware of the state of Barber's account—upon Mr. Campbell leaving I was present when the state of the account was discussed in Goodburn's presence—Mr. Laing asked him if the balances were all properly covered, as it was necessary to be certain of that before they paid Mr. Campbell over what was due to him out of his capital—he then said that the balances were all fully covered, and that there was not a bad account in the ledger—Mr. Barber's account was transferred from Laing and Campbell to Laing and Merridew—the account has been mentioned several times since I have been a partner, both by Crowther and Goodburn, Goodburn merely confirming his previous statement that it was covered by security—Crowther'a conversation with me upon that subject would more relate to the state of the stock in hand than to the other portion of it; I should never speak to him on the cash matters—I mean the stock under the control of Laing and Company—both Crowther and Good barn had access to the contract-book—I refer to the contract-book of October 13th, 1857—I cannot say whose handwriting this entry is in—there is a mark against it of "J. C."—the entry in, "London, 13th October, 1857, Mr. Henry Barber, we have sold this day by your order, and for your account, the following refined saltpetre for delivery in October, November, and December, 1857, namely, 100 barrels at 56s. per cwt., 150 barrels at 60s., and 90 barrels also at 60s., making 340; cash on delivery to Mr. Caudery"—I think the date of Caudery's failure was the 11th or 12th of November—I refer to an entry in the day-book on the 24th of November, 1857, which is as follows: "William Caudery, debtor to Henry Barber, for difference in price on refined saltpetre, as agreed this day, in consideration of the sale made for you on the 26th of September being cancelled: 105 barrels at 14s. per cwt; brokerage on 450l. at 1 percent, 4l. 10s.; 100l. 10s".—the brokerage is deducted from the amount, leaving 100l. 10s—in the same book, with the same date, there is an entry, "Henry Barber, debtor to William Caudery, for refined saltpetre, transferred 50 barrels at 60s. per cwt., 150l.; 14 barrels at 60s. per cwt, 42l., total, 192l.; brokerage 1 per cent, 1l. 18s. 5d., leaving 190l. 1s. 1d".—there is a further entry: "William Caudery, creditor, 190l. 1s. 7d."—I have referred to the contract-book of the date of the 26th of September—I have gone through all the contracts, and I do not find any contract entered such as is referred to in the day-book—the contract-book is in various handwritings—it was my duty to enter or see entered the contracts which I made myself—it is the duty of a market-clerk who makes a contract either to enter it himself or to see it entered in the contract-book—Crowther was a market-clerk to buy and to sell also—Goodburn posted this book into the ledger—there are the folios opposite each entry denoting the page in the ledger where the entry is made—I find

against these entries indications of their being posted to the ledger—the indication is the folio in Goodburn's handwriting—the entries in the day-book have figures against them in Goodburn's handwriting—both the entries which are in the day-book are posted into the ledger—I am now looking at William Caudery's account—I find the entry to his debit—that is posted by Goodburn, and in the day-book his figures appear in the margin as the folio of the ledger—I turn to Barber's account—the entry from the day book is posted into that account likewise by Goodburn—the figures in the day-book indicating the folio of the ledger are in the handwriting of Goodburn also—the entries are to the debit of one, and to the credit of the other—there is no contract in the contract-book—the market-price of saltpetre upon the 24th of November was about 42s.; the rate charged in the books is 60s., 18s. more than the market-price at that time—I remember the fire at Cotton's Wharf in June, 1861—we had a quantity of saltpetre which had been warehoused for Barber at that wharf—a claim was made in consequence upon the insurance company—I have the claim here—the body of it is in Goodburn's handwriting, and signed by me—I did not test its accuracy before I signed it, except so far as the price was concerned—Goodburn laid it before me for the purpose of my signature, and I, as one of the principals, signed it—the practice as to goods when they are landed is to draw an average sample, to send it to an analytical chemist, who gives a certificate of the quantity of impurity in it, which we call refraction—that is the invariable practice in the case of saltpetre—it is done at the docks—there is no duty upon it—when saltpetre is bought the refraction is stated in the contract—we buy according to the refraction as stated by the analytical chemist invariably—the contracts stated in our books are likewise stated on the same refraction—the books are a copy from the contract—I have an entry of the contract with reference to the saltpetre that was burnt, in the contract-book of the 14th February, 1861, a purchase on behalf of Barber—I cannot say whose handwriting the entry is in—when Goodburn made out this claim his knowledge would be derived from the entry in the day-book made from this contract—the entry is transferred from the contract-book into the day-book—the entry in the day-book is in Goodburn's handwriting, and is as follows: "Pile 1,278 bags, per Alipore; refraction, 54 1/2 per cent"—the refraction stated in the claim is 40 percent—the claim besides being sent in to the insurance company is entered in our books on the 31st of July by Goodburn—the weights in the entry in the day-book when they were bought, and the weights in the claim, correspond precisely—I am speaking of the weights without reference to the refraction—in the ordinary course of his business Goodburn would refer to this entry in the day-book for the purpose of making out his claim—I know of no instance in which, when he made out a claim on an insurance company, a clerk handed to him any memorandum for the purpose—the refraction stated in the claim does not correspond with the contract—on a small portion of it, it is 53 per cent., and on another portion 49 1/2 percent—in the claim it is all put down at 40 percent.—the claim is made out on three contracts—in the third case the entry of the claim is in Goodburn's handwriting—the refraction is stated at 40 percent, and in the entry of the contract in the day-book it is stated at 54 1/2 percent—the heading of the entry is in Goodburn's handwriting—the amount of excess is 156l. 12s.—I gave no authority to Goodburn to part with the two warrants in July or August, 1861—there is an entry in our books with relation to those two warrants, the one per the Palnurston on the 30th of July, in the handwriting of Mr. Hewitt, a clerk of the firm—he was a clerk under Goodburn—he had nothing

to do with the warrants—the entry of the other warrant is in Goodburn's handwriting, dated the 7th May, 1861, and is as follows: "Henry Barber, debtor to J. F. Drake and Company"—that is the entry of the contract of purchase for Barber—there is no entry showing the disposition of warrants—I have an entry in what is called a delivery-book, dated August 3d, in Crowther's handwriting (the entry was read)—that is an entry of the delivery of the warrants on that day to Barber—I gave no authority either to Goodburn or Crowther to hand over those warrants.

Cross-examined by MR. CHAMBERS. Q. In order to substantiate your claim was it necessary to send the warrants of the goods to the insurance company? A. "Yes—the weights appear upon the warrants; the refraction does not—Goodburn might copy the weights from the warrants—I cannot say whether before the claim was allowed Mr. Hardy, on the part of the insurance company, examined into it, looking at the warrants—I cannot say whether, before the insurance company allow a claim, they employ a person to check the amount of it—the policy was a floating policy on goods at several wharves—we claimed for a small quantity of black dye—Hewitt made out amount sales, and he made some entries in the day-book—he had no other duties—supposing there were six warrants applying to six different contracts, the average might have been calculated by three different people in the office, so as to apply it to three or four contracts—our business is a very large one—wt had only one cashier and book-keeper, with two assistants—one was Mr. Hewitt, another was Mr. Walker—Mr. Goodburn would probably give information to them—when he was making up the ledger there would be no occasion for him to look at documents, he would look at entries—it is impossible for me to say who assisted him—I cannot tell whether in making out the refraction he looked at the warrants alone—the actual refraction is upon an analysis of a sample—the sample by which it is ordinarily tested is the one that follows the article through every course of commerce—the quantity of saltpetre in a bag varies from 1 1/2 cwt to 1 3/4 cwt.—supposing there are 100 bags of saltpetre, the Dock Company take what we call the average sample—the size of the sample is 1/2 cwt—the chemists who analysed the saltpetre that was destroyed at Cotton's Wharf were Messrs. Tishmacher and Smith—I do not know which of the gentlemen did it—the sample was sent by the Dock Company direct to the chemist's—it was after we had made the charge against the two prisoners that we sent back the 150l. to the insurance company—we gave them notice the day we found it out, and paid them on the following day—I think we sent back the 150l. on the second examination at the Mansion House—I calculated the Averages—there was one beside myself engaged upon it, the young gentle-man who is helping me here to-day, Mr. Hewitt—is not here—he is not now in our service—Mr. Walker is here—he is not now in our service—he left us in the beginning of 1860—Mr. Hewitt left about a month or six weeks ago—I do not recollect that anybody came in Mr. Walker's place—we promoted other clerks in our office I think Mr. Hewitt took his place—we have engaged a clerk to take Mr. Hewitt's place, who has not come yet—I have a delivery-book here—it shows what warrants were delivered out to Mr. Barber, and to Mr. Barber only—I found it among some of our books when we came to look over them—I find that some of the entries are in Goodburn's, and some in Crowther's, handwriting—besides the delivery-book there is no other book that shows the warrants that go out, or the warrants that are in our possession—we do a very large business in colonial produce; not in the same way in which we dealt with Barber—we buy of one man for

another—on some goods we pay a deposit, according to the terms of the market—if we pay the deposit, as Boon as we have the particulars we enter the whole amount of the purchase-money against the buyer in our books—if we made a contract to buy for Mr. Brown 3,000l. worth, and paid a deposit, we should enter against Mr. Brown, on the date of the contract, 3,000l., because we should be answerable as broken; and, besides that, if we paid a deposit out of our own funds, we should debit him with interest immediately upon the deposit, and then when the prompt came, if we paid the money out of our own pockets, we should debit him with interest upon it until we were paid—that was the course adopted with reference to Mr. Barber—there was a transaction of a purchase of saltpetre, to arrive by two vessels at Liverpool in 1857—when we bargained for that saltpetre, it was at a low price—I should think it was rather more than a 3,000l. purchase—if we had been called upon to pay at the prompt we should have been upwards of 3,000l. in advance—I have no recollection whether we were called upon to pay at the prompt—supposing saltpetre, instead of rising, had fallen, Barber might have been 1,500l. out of pocket—we were answerable to pay, as brokers, the whole 3,000l., and if it would not have netted more than half, then Barber would have been the loser of 1,500l. or more—I recollect the transaction of buying for Barber to that large amount; it did not turn out to be a losing transaction—there was 800l. profit on that which did arrive—I recollect being directed to insure that which was bargained for—I gave instructions to Mr. Goodborn, who did all our insurances, against fire and everything else, to insure it—besides being our book-keeper, and keeping the ledger, it was a part of his business to effect the insurances—I did not know with whom the insurances were effected; I never inquired—there was no dispute with the insurers as to payment—Barber did not insist that the insurers were bound to pay him as upon a loss of upwards of 3,000l.—there was no dispute by him—the profit was made upon that which arrived in London—there would be the difference between about 33s. a cwt. and 48s. a cwt—I bought for Barber after I became a partner—I never sold his refined saltpetre—Crowther had the duty of selling for him; that was with my concurrence and knowledge—we made an agreement with Barber after this discovery, not to molest him—we made an engagement with Mr. Caudery for twelve months, upon condition that he should pay the 900l. for the warrants which he had had—he has paid the 900l. for the warrants he has had—I refer to my ledger and find the following entries: September 11th, 2 barrels; October 3d, 30 casks and 20 barrels; on October 11th, 3 casks; on the 12th, 30; on the 18th, 5; on the 19th, 12; and on the 23d., 71"—these are all entered to the credit of Barber as against his debit account.

MR. JAMES. Q. With respect to this insurance, the goods were bought to arrive? A. Yes; it is the ordinary practice to insure the profit of the goods which are to arrive—in accordance with our ordinary practice, I instructed Goodburn to insure the profit—no underwriter will insure average—it was an insurance against total loss, and there was no total loss—the 800l. was a profit upon the total transaction—the price ran up at that time in consequence of the recurrence of the Indian Mutiny—there can be no entry in our books for goods that have not arrived—in that case there would be neither prompt, deposit, nor anything else; the contract would be at an end—Messrs. Laing and Co. could not be called on to pay except on the goods which actually arrived—I did not know of the existence of the deliverybook until after the discovery of these frauds—my attention was called to it by a communication from Barber, with reference to two warrants for saltpetre

—I searched and found that book—I find no entry in it except in Goodburn's and Crowther's writing—the earliest date is the 27th April, 1860, and the latest is the 3d August, 1861—there is the exception of one marked "not delivered"—we had transactions with other customers in saltpetre, and in other colonial produce, to an extent equal in gross amount to Barber's)—in many instances we had possession of warrants for them in the same way as for Barber—there was no book kept by our concern for the purpose of containing entries of warrants to anybody else—this book is printed, "Warrants sent to Mr. Henry Barber" throughout—I gave no directions to have such a book as this prepared, and was not aware of its existence—I have seen it before to-day—it was found among a number of other books, in one of our rooms where we put away our ledgers—where I found it, I should think it would not be accessible to the partners; merely because we very seldom go into that room—we hare a room up stairs where we put a number of books that are completed—I should say, the book being full, it would not be lying about the counting-house—that room was kept by the firm for keeping a portion of their books which were filled up—I had not seen that book before—I did not find any other book there; no other in continuation of it.

SETON LAING (re-examined). I was not aware of the existence of this book until after the discovery of these matters against the prisoners—it has been found since they were committed—I gave no directions to have this book prepared; I was not aware of its existence—it was Mr. Merridew who called my attention to it—I first saw it after the fraud was discovered—before Mr. Goodburn left our employment, we had an accountant to go through Barber's books, to try and make up Barber's account; I forget his name—I am not aware that this book was gone through and checked by the accountant—I will swear that it was not; it was not that I am aware of—Mr. Merridew can give you the name of the accountant.

MR. MERRIDEW. It was Seward.

SETOM LAING (continued). Mr. Striker is in the habit of doing a portion of the printing for our firm.

HENRY BARBER (re-examined). The warrant now produced to me I received at the same time as I received the one produced yesterday—it corresponds with the note.

EDWARD BIRD . I am manager of the Fire Department of the Royal Exchange Assurance Company—the claim which has been put in comes from that company—the warrants were handed to us at the same time, and I handed them over at the police-court—we paid the claim in full to the amount of 830l. 8s. 9d—I have the cheque which was paid—we paid 1,002l. 7s., 9d—that included the whole—we have received back 156l. 12s. 8d.

Cross-examined by MR. CHAMBERS Q. Who is the Company's valuer? A. Mr. Harding—I know nothing about refraction—it is Mr. Harding's duty to take care if he can that we do not over-pay—he is a man of very great experience—he values for us and for other mercantile people.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Has your Company taken any part in this? A. No; except as I have been obliged to be a witness—the Company has instituted no prosecution against these defendants—the policy produced is under the seal of our corporation—there is a declaration on the back of it as to the payment of the loss.

The prisoners received excellent characters.

CROWTHER GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

GOODBURN GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-733
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

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733. ELLEN WHITE (23), and MARY M'KENZIE(28) , Stealing 1 purse and 2s. in money, the property of Jane Grey, from her person.

MR. LAXTON conducted the Prosecution.

JANE GREY. I am the wife of George Grey, of 11, Smith-street, Northampton-square—on 20th April I was on Ludgate-hill, between 5 and 6 o'clock—Thomas made a communication to me, and I felt in my pocket and missed my purse, which was safe when I left home half an hour before—it contained two sixpences and some halfpence—when I saw it again the money was gone.

Cross-examined by MR. WILLIAMS. Q. Did you feel it taken? A. No, I had a baby on my arm.

JOHN THOMAS . I am a draper—I was on Ludgate-hill on 20th April, between 5 and 6 o'clock, and saw the prisoner standing at the corner of New Bridge-street—M'Kenzie put her hand into Mrs. Grey's pocket, and withdrew something like a purse—White was close behind her—I told Mrs. Grey, and followed the prisoners into Paternoster-row, and saw them open a purse—I told a constable, and we followed them into St. Paul's-churchyard—I went up to them and told them that they had picked a lady's pocket, and the constable would take them in charge—White had the purse in her hand behind her, concealed under her cloak.

Cross-examined. Q. When you saw the parse taken out of White's hand, was there anything in it? A. No.

THOMAS DONOGHUE (City-policeman, 338). I was on duty on 20th April on Ladgate-hill—about a quarter to 6, a communication was made to me by the last witness, upon which I went into St. Pauls-churchyard, and saw the two prisoners there standing at a window in dose conversation—I took them into custody—I saw White trying to conceal something behind her back, under her cloak, and I took this purse from her hand—there was no money in it.

Cross-examined. Q. They were standing still when you came up? A. Yes; they did not see me till I tapped them on the shoulder—White attempted to conceal the purse behind her.

ELIZABETH HARRISON . I am female searcher at the Fleet-street policestation—I searched both the prisoners—on M'Kenzie I found a two-shilling piece, a shilling, two sixpences, and 5 1/2 d. in coppers; and on White, twelve shillings, four sixpences, a four penny piece, and all the rest in copper, amounting altogether to 15s. 3 3/4d.


Ellen White was further charged with having been before convicted of felony at Clerkenwell, on 18th September, 1858, in the name of Ellen Crawley; to which she

PLEADED GUILTY.— Confined Eighteen Months.

M'KENZIE.— Confined Six Months.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-734
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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734. CHARLES REED (38) , Unlawfully attempting to steal a watch from the person of James Weaver.

MR. TAYLOR conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES WEAVER . I am a clerk, living at 1, Great Winchester-street, City—on the night of the 16th of May, about half-past 10 at night, I was in Cheapside, and saw a crowd—there was a woman apparently in a fit, but I believe it was only got up—I stopped at the crowd—an officer asked the people to move further back, I moved, and felt a tug at my chain, put my hand up, and missed my watch—I then put my other hand up, and seised

the prisoner's hand with my watch in it—I gave him into custody—he said I did not find the watch in his hand—I took it out of his hand.

Prisoner. Q. Did you feel me take the watch one of your pocket? A. No; I felt a tug at my chain.

WILLIAM WILSON (City-policeman, 701). I took the prisoner from the last witness—he gave his address, 7, Cambridge-heath-road—them is no such place.

Prisoner's Defence. I am innocent of what I am accused of; he never felt me take the watch.

JAMES WEAVER (re-examined). The watch was not separated from the chain—I am sure I did not pull it out myself.

GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

OLD COURT.—Friday, May 5th, 1863.

Before Mr. Justice Williams.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-735
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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735. GEORGE EAGIN (29), and WILLIAM FRASER SENNETT (27) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Robert Edmonds, and stealing a writing-desk and other goods, the property of Alfred Riddles. Messrs. ORIDGE and ROWDEN conducted the Prosecution.

ROBERT EDMONDS . I occupy the house 69, Gower-street, St. Giles-in-the-fields—on the morning of 4th April, about 3 o'clock, or it might be a little later, I was aroused by hearing a noise of some kind about the house—I got up, and happened to make a noise with the table—I heard the street-door slam; I awoke Mrs. Edmonds, and we both went down stains—not observing anything I went up stairs, and went to bed again—about 4 o'clock I was again aroused by the police—this writing-desk, plume of feathers, hat, and album, belong to Alfred Riddles, a lodger in the house.

Cross-examined by MR. PATER (for Sennett) Q. Was Mr. Riddles lodging in the house on the night in question? A. No, he was out of town—I found these things on the sofa put up ready to take away—we have two servants; they had not gone down before me—I should say it was between 3 and 4 that I first heard the noise; not nearer 3 than 4—it is impossible for me to tell exactly; I have nothing to guide me, any more than the time it took me to go over the house, dressing, and going with the police, and giving the charge—I think I got to the police-station about 5; the station is about three minutes' walk from my house—before I went to bed again, I got up, and went over the house; we found that nothing was taken—I am sure I heard the door slam—it was a very loud slam—I did not open the door; I found it shut—it is not my custom to go over the house before going to bed, I leave it to the servants—there was a Mr. Brown and family lodging in the drawing-room, and Mr. Riddled occupied the parlour.

Eagin. Q. What time was it you were aroused? A. I should think near 4—I should think there was not more than a quarter of an hour's interval between my being aroused the first time and the second—I got up, and went over the house with Mrs. Edmonds—I did not see anything disturbed; we did not go into the parlour—we slept in the room adjoining the parlour—I did not open the street-door; it was not bolted—I should say it was bolted when I went to bed; I don't think it was bolted when I let the policeman in—I have no distinct recollection; we were flurried and agitated—when the policeman came we went into the parlour, and found the window open, and the blinds knocked down.

MARY ANN WHITE . I was housemaid in the service of Mr. Edmonds on 4th April—it was my duty to fasten up the house at night—I went to bed about 10 o'clock on the night of the 3d—before going to bed I had fastened up the doors and windows—it was the dining-room window that was found open, fronting the street—I had gone into that room about 9 o'clock; the room was then as secure as it always was—I saw this desk on a side-table between the windows, this box by the side of it, and the plumes of feathers, one on each side of it—I saw the album on the same table—I was aroused about 5 o'clock by the policeman—when I came down, I found the dining-room door open—all these things which I had seen on the side-table were moved on to the sofa, and the plume of feathers on to the table in the center of the room—there are wire blinds to the window; they were pulled down, and when I went to bed they were in their proper position, and fastened with two bolts on each side.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know that the parlour window was fastened when you went to bed? A. I can't be positive, it was closed—I had not opened it all day—I did not fasten the window; I drew the blinds down, and saw that the room was secure—the other servant went to bed when I did—the area between the street and the window is very wide and deep.

Eagin. Q. Was the policeman in the house when you were aroused? A. yes, in the passage—I had fastened the street-door as usual that night, and shut the parlour-door, and the back of the house was all dosed, as usual, when I went to bed.

THOMAS BAKER (Policeman, E 127). On the morning of 4th April, I was on duty in Chenies-street, Tottenham-court-road—about 4 o'clock I saw the prisoner Sonnet in Chenies-street, and about five or six minutes afterwards, or it might have been seven or eight, minutes, I saw him again in Stone-street—seeing him a second time, I had a suspicion that there was something wrong, upon which I went sharp round my beat to meet him again—on coming into Gower-street, where I thought to meet him, I could not see him—I stood at the corner of Gower-street for a moment, and then proceeded along Gower-street, and I saw Sonnet step from the door of No. 69—he was followed by Eagin and another man; they came out of the house, and slammed the door after them—I sprang my rattle, and followed them to the corner of Gower-street and Stone-street—they all three ran up Stone-street, and turned down a mews in Stone-street—I sprang my rattle, and ran back again down Gower-street into Cherries-street to the other end of the mews—the mews runs from Stone-street into Chenies-street—I met Eagin coming out of the mews into Chenies-street—I took hold of him, and told him I should take him into custody—he asked what for—I said for having seen him come out of a house in Gower-street—he said, "Don't use any violence; I will go with you quietly; I have not done anything I care about"—I did not use any violence to him, I declined to do so—he went some distance with me quietly—on coming into Gower-street, he struck me a violent blow on my cheek—I had hold of him at the time by the collar with my left hand—I did not see what it was he struck me with the first time—I then struck him a blow with my rattle, which I had in my hand, and in the struggle my hat fell off—he struck me again; I closed in with him, and we struggled for some time in the street—he tried several times to throw me, and ultimately I went to the ground-Waite was the first constable that came to my assistance—I was taken to the hospital—Eagin made his escape from me, after dealing me two blows on the head; he ran up Gower-street—I was very much hurt, I am suffering from the injuries very much now—

after my wounds were dressed at the hospital, I was taken back to the station—I revived, and felt a good deal better then than I do now—I saw Eagin at the station, and I said he was the man that had ill-used me as soon as I went in—I afterwards went with Baskforth to Broad-street, St. Giles, about 10 o'clock that same morning—I there saw Sonnet—I pointed him out to Bashforth, but I could not speak loud enough for him to hear—he had to come to me, and as soon as Sonnet saw me point him out to Baskforth, he ran away—he was followed by Bashforth, but made his escape.

Cross-examined. Q. What time was it that you first saw the men? A. As near as I can say it was 4 o'clock, to a minute or two either way—it was not very foggy; there was no fog where I was—I can't say how far Sonnet was from 69, Gower-street, when I lost sight of him—from the time I first saw him till the last was not more than a quarter of an hour—at the time I saw him come out of the house, I was from twenty to thirty yards from him; I was then going towards the house, on the same side of the way—I was in uniform when the men came out of the house—they went from me—I knew Sonnet well then from meeting him twice before—I had a side-view of him as he came from the door—I only had a momentary glance of his side-face then before he turned and ran away—I had never seen him before that morning that I know of.

Eagin (having had the depositions of the witness read). Q. When you were first at the police-station, did you not say that you took me on suspicion? A. No, I think not—was not more than two minutes from the time I heard the door slam till I caught you—it was about 4 o'clock that I heard the door slam—I was then coming up Gower-street, about four houses from No. 69, and about three or four houses from Chenies-street—it may be about forty yards from the corner of Chenies-street to No. 69, Gower-street; when you came off the step of 69, you ran off as hard as you could—when I got to the corner of Gower-street and Stone-street, you were just going to turn down the mews—you were'then about thirty or forty yards ahead of me—I saw you turn the corner of Chenies-mews; you all turned together as Hear as you could-you had on a black deer-stalking hat—I could not give any description of the third man; I know nothing of him; I had never seen either of you before—I speak to you by meeting you twice, and seeing you come out of the door, and you were running when I caught you—I did not assault you—I never laid a hand upon you, except to lay hold of your collar.

GEORGE LOWERY (Policeman, E 22). On the morning of 4th April, about 4, or shortly after, I was on duty in Alfred-street, which runs out of Chenies-street—I heard a cry of stop thief, and saw Eagin running towards me with a life-preserver in his hand; this is it—I stopped him, and struggled with him, and he struck me with it on the back of the head—I held him till another constable came up, and then took him to the station.

Eagin. Q. Was it foggy? A. It had been, but was clearing off—I threw you in the road; you did not get up again till I picked you up—you had no hat on—I wanted to know what you were running away for with the life-preserver in your hand—you said you had done nothing—you were on the ground two or three minutes, I saw nobody else—you were about ten or twelve yards off when I heard the cries of "Police," about twenty yards from the corner—I took the life-preserver from you.

THOMAS BAKER (re-examined). There was no cry of "Stop thief" in my presence; I cried "Stop thief" myself when I was on the ground—Eagin was just away then, he had got about ten or a dozen pause—I observed the c

sort of thing he struck me with—he returned back, and struck me—it was a thing similar to this produced—I believe this to be the one—he came back after I called "Stop thief," and beat me while I was on the ground, just as I was getting up.

Eagin. Q. How long away was I before I turned back? A. A very short time; you only had time to go ten or twelve paces and return—you ran up Chinies-street when you left me the last time; yon ran in the direction of Alfred-street—a policeman ran past me as I was trying to get up to follow you, and I asked him to stop you—you had then just escaped from me—that constable is here I believe.

THOMAS WATTE (Policeman, E 128). On the morning of 4th April, about 4 o'clock, I was on duty in Russell-square—I heard the sound of a rattle—I ran to the top of Stone-street, and listened; I heard the sound of a hit, and something like a fall to the ground—I ran to where the sound came from, and saw Eagin and the constable struggling on the ground—I saw Eagin leave him and run away—as I went by, Baker said, "Oh, stop that man!"—I saw that Baker was bleeding very much—I followed Eagin as fast as I could, and never lost sight of him all the while till he was stopped by Lowery.

Eagin. Q. About how far off were you when you first heard the rattle? A. About one hundred yards from where I saw the struggle—I was about twenty yards from you when I saw you leave Baker and run away—I did not see the life-preserver till I saw it at the station; you threw the life-preserver away when you hit him with it, and he picked it up afterwards—I saw you make a strike at the constable in Alfred-street, and saw you fall; I did not see what you struck with; I can't swear that you had anything; I was about twenty yards off—there was very little fog; if any; it had been foggy about half-past 3, but it went off-soon afterwards.

JOHN BASHFORTH (Policeman, E 148). On the morning of 4th April, I was on duty at the police-station when Baker was brought back, after having his wounds dressed—Eagin was there; baker said nothing in his presence—I afterwards went with Baker to Broad-street, St. Giles's, and he pointed out Sonnet at the corner of Endwell-street; upon being pointed out, he ran away—I pursued him through Short's-gardens, across Drury-lana, into Charles-street—I was thrown down by something, and he escaped.

Cross-examined. Q. How far were you from him at the time he was pointed out by Baker? A. About thirty yards—I was in plain clothes and so was Baker; he may have had uniform trousers on.

Eagin. Q. At what time did you see me at the station? A. About a quarter-past 6—Baker was not there then.

WILLIAM ACKRILL (Policeman, F 48). I had a description given to me of Sonnet—I went in search of him, and apprehended him on the night of 15th April, between 11 and twelve o'clock, in Drury-lane—I told him I wanted him for being concerned with another man in custody for committing a burglary, and assaulting a police constable, in Gower-street—he said, "All right, I'll go; give me flair play"—I took him to George-street station, and Baker was sent for—we put Sonnet with several other men, and Baker picked him out, and said, "That is one of the men that I wanted."

Cross-examined. Q. Did you receive a description of Sonnet? A. Yes, from Baker and also from Sergeant Franklin—I think it was about a week before I apprehended him that I had the description from Baker; a few days after 4th April—I had not seen him before the 15th; I am sure

of that—I was looking for him, but could not see him—I took him from the description I had received from Baker.

RICHARD BLISSETT (Policeman, E 106). On the morning of 4th April, I was on duty in Doughty-street, in plain clothes, standing under a gas-light; that is better than a quarter of a mile from Gower-street, nearly half a mile—I saw the two prisoners in company with another man, as near as I can say about half-past 3; they were going in the direction of Russell-square, which would take them to Gower-street—I followed them, and lost sight of them; I was about fifty yards behind them, and when they got to the inclosure of Russell-square it was very dark, and I could not see which way they went—I had also seen those same three men together on the Thursday morning, the 2d., I think, in Russell-square, between 5 and 6.

Cross-examined. Q. Was it not foggy on this night? A. It was a little, not very thick—it was in consequence of the fog that I lost sight of them—I could walk from Doughty-street to Gower-street in about seven minutes.

Eagin. Q. How far were we from you when you first saw us? A. It might have been ten or fifteen yards—the third man was taller than either of you; he was dressed in a brown coat—you had on a dark brown cap with a peak to it—one of you had on a deer-stalking hat; I can't say which—I had seen you on two previous mornings, Thursday and Friday, the three men together—you had on a coat something similar to what you have on now—I recognize you by seeing you in broad daylight on two previous mornings—I met you in Montague-place, you and Sonnet together; you had on a brown coat then, though not so dark—I could not say what coat you had on on the 4th; it was lighter than this—I might have been fifty yards from you when I lost sight of you—I came across Russell-square.

MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Had you ever seen either of them before these mornings? A. No.

ROBERT COBDEN (Policeman, E 61). On the morning of 4th April, I was on duty in Gray's-inn-lane in plain clothes, about half-past 3, and saw the two prisoners with another man in Gray's-inn-lane—I followed them into Guildford-street; I there met Blissett and spoke to him, and we followed them to Russell-square, where we lost sight of them—I had seen the same three men two or three mornings previously in Holborn.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you with Blissett When you lost sight of them? A. Yes—it was not very foggy; there was a little fog; it got thicker by Russell-square, when we lost them by the inclosure—that could not have been more than seven or eight minutes from the time I first saw them.

Eagin. Q. Where did you first see us on the 4th? A. In Gray's-inn-lane, just by Henry-street, not quite so far down as King's-road, it is parallel with Doughty-street—I should say you had on a blue cap, a round deer-stalker, and a dark brown coat—the other man was taller than either of you, with a brown coat—I was closer to you than I am now when I first saw you—you were going towards Guildford-street; you passed close to me; I met yon, and then turned back after you—Blissett was in Guildford-street, close by Doughty-street, when I first saw him—there is a lamp there.

Eagan's Defense. I wish to state how this happened. At a quarter-past 4, I was in Tottenham-court-road, at a coffee stall; I spoke to them at the police-station about it, and the policeman would not allow the man to come; I was proceeding down Chenies street, and turned into Cheniesmews, to answer the calls of nature; I was coming out, and saw two men running; one of them followed me and took me; I am charged with

burglary, and likewise assaulting the constable; I was never in this man's company before—Baker says he never saw me before he saw me coming out of the house; he cannot give a description of the man who has got away; he was the nearest to him, and I was the furthest off; the policeman ought to be here who spoke of the life-preserver; one constable states he took it out of my hand, and the other constable says he picked it up.


The prisoners were further charged with having been before convicted of felony; Eagin, on 27th June, 1859; and Sennett on 4th July, at Westminster;?to this part of the charge.

SENNETT PLEADED GUILTY.— Ten Years' Penal Servitude.

JOHN CHOWN (Police-sergeant, E 5). I produce a certificate (This certified the conviction of John Collins, on his own confession, to larceny in a dwelling-house after a previous conviction; sentence, five years' penal servitude)—Eagin is the man there mentioned—I have known him for the last six or seven years—I was present when he was tried, and proved the previous conviction against him—I am positive he is the man—he gained a ticket-of-leave on 18th February.

EAGIN GUILTY.—(See next case.)

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-736
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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736. GEORGE EAGIN was again indicted for feloniously wounding Thomas Baker, with intent to murder him; other counts, varying the intent.

MESSRS, ORRIDGE and ROWDEN conducted the Prosecution.

George Lowery and Thomas Baker repeated in substance the evidence given by them in the previous case; and Inspector Garforth proved the depositions of Mr. John Meeks, surgeon, since deceased, who, having examined Baker, stated that the injuries he had received were dangerous to his life.

Prisoner's Defence. I had two large outs on my head, and could eat nothing for two days; I was bruised all over; I am charged with attempting to murder; what I did was only in my own defense I had nothing in my hand like that.

THOMAS GARFORTH (re-examined). I had the prisoner in my charge on the morning of the 4th—he had Ho marks of having been severely ill-used—he had a slight scratch or two on the face, and a slight skin wound behind one of his ears—he made no complaint to me.

Prisoner. This very man was going to hit me with the life-preserver in the station. Witness. I did not.

Prisoner. Chown took my collar 0ff, so that the blood should not show.

JOHN CHOWM . I did not.

GUILTY on the latter counts .— Twenty Years' Penal Servitude.

THE COURT ordered a reward of 10l. to be paid to the constable Baker.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-737
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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737. JOHN VINE(55); was indicted for a rape on Pauline Emden.

MESSRS. SLEIGH and BESLEY conducted the Prosecution, and MR. DICKIE the Defense.

GUILTY of the attemptConfined One Year .

OLD COURT.—Saturday, May 16th, 1863.

Before Mr. Justice Williams.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-738
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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738. JOHN STONEMAN, alias STEBBINGS (42), and ELIZA STEBBINGS(36) , Feloniously setting fire to a certain dwelling-house, with intent to defraud the Imperial Fire Insurance Company.

MESSRS GIFFARD and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY JOHN JOHNSTON . I am a clerk in the service of the Imperial

insurance Company, No. 1, Old Broad-street—this policy is signed by the directors of that office—(This was dated 12th December, 1862, insuring the household goods, warring apparel, fixtures, &c., of Mrs. Eliza Stebbing, 68, Brewer-street, Somerstown, cheesemonger and pork butcher, for 400l)—this cheque for 60l., dated 13th January, 1863, was drawn for the purpose of paying the loss upon that policy—the female prisoner called for it—I saw her—some other person was with her; not the male prisoner—she said she called for the amount of the loss—we told her that we could not pay the loss unless she produced her husband; we had heard that she had a husband living—we did not give her the cheque on that occasion—she called on two occasions before she produced the other prisoner—she said her husband had left her and gone to sea, and he might not be back for some years—on 24th January she came with the male prisoner, and produced him as her husband—this receipt was then signed by them, and I handed them the cheque—I could not swear to which I gave it—they were both present.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. How long was it before this prosection was commenced? A. I cannot say—I think I went before the Lord Mayor at the end of April, or the beginning of May.

THOMAS TIMES . I am inspector of risks, and assessor of values to the county Fire Office—in the end of November, or beginning of December last, in consequence of information from the office, I went to the female prisoner's premises, 68, Brewer-street, Somerstown—I saw her, and told her I had called from the County Fire Office, for the purpose of inspecting the premises, the contents of which were proposed to be insured in the office—I walked through the shop, observed the paucity of stock, and went up stairs—there was very little furniture—there were some pictures—some pictures were specially named in the instructions I had, to be insured for a large sum, therefore I inquired for them—I saw some very bad paintings, daubs, in the room—I did not suppose they could be part of them—two were pointed out to me by the female prisoner as being very valuable pictures; one was a very bad copy of the old print of "The Enthusiast," and the other was a very bad painting; in fact, it was not worth the name of a painting—I said they could not be the pictures proposed; they must be some others—she said that her brother, I understood her to say, had been offered a large sum for them; I think she said 450l.—I said whoever had been offered such a sum was very foolish not to take it—I at once said that the County Fire Office would decline to take the risk, and left.

Cross-examined. Q. I suppose you consider yourself a judge of pictures? A. A tolerable judge; not a first-rate judge like Farer—as an auctioneer, I frequently have them through my hands—I am a general auctioneer, of thirty years practice—I do not confine myself to things of that description, like Christie and Manson—I sold part of the collection of Sir William Ross, the miniature-painter—I don't know who painted the original of the "Euthusiast;" it is a very old print—I do not think I ever saw the original—I should think it would be valuable—I have no doubt that these (produced) are the two pictures that I saw; they were hanging up—I think something was said about the brother having brought them from Australia.

MR. GIFFORD. Q. Did you ask to see the pictures in respect of which the insurance was sought? A. Yes—none but these of the same subject were shown to me.

HENRY JOHN ROBERT . I am surveyor of risks to the Sun Fire Office—on 20th October, the female prisoner made a proposal to insure in our office—this is a copy of the proposal—the amount is 500l., 250l. of which is on

pictures and prints, situate at 68, Brewer-street, Somerstown—I went there to inspect the premises—I saw the female prisoner there—I asked to see the pictures—I was shown the two produced, the "Enthusiast" and the "Dreadnaught"—she said they were valuable; she had been told they were worth 500l.—I told her that they were copies, and apparently newly done, or newly varnished—I said I would make my report, and she would hear from us—we declined the insurance—I should think the value of these two pictures waft 25s. a piece, frames included—I did not mention the value to her.

SAMUEL EYRE . I am clerk to the surveyor of claims for the Imperial Fire Office—in consequence of instructions, I went on the morning of 5th January to 68, Brewer-street, Somerstown—I observed than there had been a fire in the house—the back bedroom was burnt out; the roof was gone, and the sky was visible—the other rooms were all more or less damaged by the fire and the water from the engines—I saw the female prisoner there—I asked her the time and cause of the fire—I took a note at the time of what she said—I asked her if she was a married woman—I saw that the insurance was in the name of Eliza Stebbings—she said she was, but that her husband had gone about ten days before to sea; that he was a ship's steward—I said, "Where is he now?"—she said, "At Sunderland"—I said, "Can you give me his address?"—she said, "No, I cannot; I only heard once from him, and the letter had the post-mark of Durham"—she said he was a ship's steward, and had been to the Cape—she then said that she had separated from him (that was in reply to my question why she had made the insurance in her own name, having a husband); that he had used her very ill, and she never wished to see him again—I then asked her about the time of the fire—she said it was in, her absence, on the previous night or that morning; that she and her servant, Mary Casey, had left the house between 10 and 11 on the previous evening (Sunday), and walked to Paddington, to Mrs. Dames, 23, Berkley-street—I afterwards found it was Upper Berkley-street—she said that Mrs. Dames lodged at a Mrs. White's, and she and her servant bad slept there; that they both left the house about a quarter-past 6 in the morning, and walked to Somerstown, and then found that the fire had occurred—she said she had slept from home twice before during the last three months—she said, "When I left there was a very small bit of fire in the bedroom; I put on a shovel of slack, to last till I came back, say for two or three hours; I meant to be away that time; I did not mean to stop all night; I left my night-clothes on a chair before the fire to air"—I then went through the house, and examined particularly, and took a description of the property remaining, and what the damage was—she said that her loss exceeded the amount of her insurance, 400l—I said I could see nothing of the sort; I did not think she had lost 100l.—she then gave me a description of those things which she said were totally destroyed; she enumerated a number of articles of furniture, and two valuable pictures, and two others—she said they were totally destroyed—I asked if there was no particles of the frames left, or any part—she said none; they were totally destroyed—I asked her some particulars of those pictures, and she said that one was called the "Enthusiast," an old gentleman fishing in a tub, and the other was a portrait of the "Dreadnaught," and they were originals, by either Barrett or Lane—I said, "I know the subjects you speak of; they are engraved pictures"—she said, "Yet—the same subjects, I believe, are in the National Gallery"—I have the list of things here, which was taken down from her mouth—among them is a family-bible, a dressingGlass,

and some curtains, which she described as totally destroyed—the sum she named for the curtains was higher than I thought suitable for the place, and she said, "Oh, I can give you a bill of those; I bought them near here"—I said, "Do so," and this voucher was given to me, not by her, but by Mr. Voy, who acted for her in making out her claim—I examined the stock that remained; it consisted of bacon, hams, cheese, and what are celled dummies—the greater part were dummies—they are wooden imitations—none of the stock was destroyed—the total stock, had it not been injured, would have been about 3l.—it had been injured by the water—dummies are not unusual things—I subsequently settled the claim at 60l., and told her agent that I should not advise the office to pay any more—it was a bad case, and I could not make any change.

Cross-examined. Q. Is that the claim (produced)? A. It is—this if for 11l.—that claim was made after I had made the observation I have stated—I would not recognize this claim—I said it was a fraud, and threw it aside—there is a claim here for damage to shop, including dummies, of 10l. she told me that she went to the office herself, and insured by the advice of her brother-in-law, and that the premises were surveyed by a person from the office—that is not always done—she informed me that it was done in this case—I do not know it; it is not in my department—I am surveyor of claims, not of risks—I did not put myself in communication with the person who surveyed—I went through the debris after the fire—I don't know that Mr. Hodsell did so; he may have done—I heard Mr. Hodsell make a statement before the Magistrate—his clerk, Mr. Voy, went over, the premises—Mr. Hodsell is not generally employed by the offices as a surveyor; he is a valuer of claims—his father is a valuer for the offices—I did not go to 23, Upper Berkley-street, to ascertain whether the prisoners had slept there; that was not my business—I gave the police a copy of her statement.

WALTER HODSELL . I am a surveyor, of 26 Great St. Helens, Bishops-gate, and am an assessor of losses—I have an office on the same floor as my father; it is the same thing—on 6th January, I heard of the fire, and went to the premises of the female prisoner—I made out a claim from her dictaton—this is it—Mr. Voy, my clerk, ultimately settled with the office—I was employed on behalf of Mrs. Stebbings.

Cross-examined, Q. Are you in practice for yourself? A. Yes—my father is inspector for several large fire offices—I am well-known as a surveyor of claims—I did not go carefully through the debris of the fire; I did partly in the front room—the principal part of the fire was in the back room—that was burnt right out, but we are not allowed to touch the debris until the surveyor comes—I went through the other parts of the premises as far as I could—I found part of an iron bedstead, and a small portion of marble, which I took to be part of the top of a wash-stand—I found some parts of knives and forks, and some feathers, sufficient, I should think, to make a feather-bed—I think we found two small pieces of blanket, and one lock, which, I should think, belonged to a chest of drawers—no one that I know of went through the debris of the room which was burnt out—the claim was settled without anything being turned over—everything remained as it was after the fire—the floor was unsafe—I should not like to have gone on it—some firemen were there—there was some very good furniture in the front room—the shop appeared to have been very well fitted up—there was a looking-glass front round the show-board, and at the sides—it was nicely fitted up—fixtures were run up the side of the wall—I made out the claim from Mrs. Stebbings' dictation, except as regards the furniture in the

front room, and the fixtures; that I saw for myself—the furniture that was saved was damaged by water—the office is bound to take them when damaged, if we think proper, or they allow so much for salvage—that is another way of paying for the damage—the office gave 60l. and the salvage—the 60l. included the damage of the things that were not burnt—15l. was the value of the salvage returned, to the lowest farthing—they would fetch that to sell—in my judgment that was a fair claim on the office, as far as I can vouch for it—111l., was a fair claim if the office had taken the salvage, then it would be 96l. instead of 111l., because you put 15l. as the value of the salvage—all the things I included in the claim were calculated as a total loss, fixtures and all—I can vouch myself as having seen the existing articles, or the remnants, to the value, in rough numbers, of 37l. 10s.; that is without having gone into the room which was burnt out completely, and excepting the knives and forks and the bedstead—I did not reckon the chest of drawers in that—I reckoned there were other beds, and I reckoned the marble-top washstand—there was a landscape oil painting in the front room which was damaged with the heat, that was put down in the 37l.—Mrs. Stebbings produced some vouchers, one bill in particular, about the curtains in the front room—we charged 25s. less than what they cost—I saw some vouchers—I did not read them—I could have looked at them.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. You were at that time acting as Mrs. Stebbings' valuer against the office? A. Yes—my clerk, Voy, saw her the first morning of the fire, before I did, and afterwards with me—the 111l. was a fair claim, supposing the office gave up the salvage—if the things were there that Mrs. Stebbings said were there—some of the things were put down by Mrs. Stebbings' dictation, and it is impossible for me to say whether they were there or not—assuming what she said was correct as to what was destroyed by fire in the back room, 111l. was a fair claim.

WILLIAM VOY . I am clerk to the last witness—I settled the claim with Mr. Eyre, and handed him over these vouchers (produced)—I got them from Mrs. Stebbings (Read: "November 10th, 1862, Mrs. Stebbings, bought of Smith and Sons, linen and woolen drapers, 197, High Holborn, 7 yards and a quarter of green damask, 1l. 15s.; 14 yards of black g. m. 19 by 6, 4l. 14s. 6d." Another read: "17th August, 1862, Mrs. Stebbings, bought of Edward Mailers, pawnbroker and general salesman, one swing glass, 1l. 1s."

Cross-examined. Q. Had you anything to do with this matter except handing over the claim? A. I wrote it out in the inventory-book, from Mr. Hodsell's dictation—he received the instructions from Mrs. Stebbings, and called the articles over to me—I was there at the time—I went to Brewer-street, and went over the rest of the premises, except the back room—I saw traces of everything included in the claim, excepting those in the room into which I was not allowed to go—the chest of drawers was in the back room—almost everything was salvage, except what was in the burnt out room—the parts of the iron bedstead were in the back-room—it was partially destroyed, but not wholly—the room was dangerous to go into—it was not safe to walk about—the staircase was partly destroyed, I believe—I could trace everything included in this claim, except the articles in the back room—in my judgment the claim, excluding the back room, is a fair and reasonable one.

COURT. Q. You and Mr. Hodsell stated it in fact? A. Yes, as for as we could judge.

MR. POLAND. Q. Do you mean to say you saw this seven yards of green (damask curtains? A. No; I believe we did not, but I believe some of the

articles in the front room were taken down, and put into the back room—I saw no trace of them—I believe there were no other articles of the same sort.

THOMAS WIMBLE . (Policeman, S 371). On Sunday night, 4th June, I was on duty in Brewer-street, Somerstown—about 12 o'clock I saw a large body of smoke coming from the chimney of 68—I gave the alarm, and the engines were sent for—I was there when the firemen came—the door was broken open—there was no one in the house—I remained there till 6 o'clock the next morning—during that time no one belonging to the house came there—I left at 6.

WILLIAM SASRFIELD . I belong to the fire-escape—I brought the fireescape from King's-cross, to 68, Brewer-street, on the Sunday night—I think it was after 12—I got up my ladder to the first-floor window, and saw that the back room was all in a flame—I saw no one in the house—I afterwards broke open the door, and got in—I could not get in at the back, as the flames were bursting out of the window.

WILLIAM MOON . I am a fireman—I arrived at this fire from a quarter-past to half-past 1 in the morning—the fire was then partly extinguished—I found that the back bedroom on the first floor had been burnt out—I remained until the morning—part of the roof of that room was destroyed—the front room was damaged by water, heat, and smoke, not by fire—I was there when the female prisoner came home, about 6 in the morning, or a little after, with Casey, the servant—I asked the prisoner if she was insured—she said, "Yes"—I said, "In what office?"—she said, "I think the Imperial"—I asked to what amount—she said, 400l., but that will not cover my loss of wearing apparel, and things which I have been accumulating for this last thirty years"—I asked if she could show me her policy—she said no, she had not got it with her; her husband had got it, and he was ill in the country—I asked her what part of the country—she said at Paddington, and she would get it for me—I asked her for the policy itself, so that I should take the number to send to the office—she said she had a box on the landing containing wearing apparel—she went up stairs to see the box, but I did not allow her to examine anything; we allow nothing to be touched—the landing was pertly burnt—there was a box there—I did not examine it—I asked her if she could give any account of the fire—she said no, she did not know how it happened—I asked what time she left the place—she said she did not know exactly; she thought about 12 o'clock—I asked in what state she left it, whether she left any fires—she said she left a small fire in the grate—I asked if she left any thing hanging round the fire—she said she left some things on a chair—she went up stairs, and then left with her servant, as she said for the purpose of getting the policy—I did not see her afterwards.

Cross-examined. Q. Was the back room safe for anybody to go into after the fire? A. The floor was partly burnt away—no one was allowed to go into it—we never do allow any one to go in except the surveyor and the owner—I remained there till 8 in the morning, when another fireman, gamed Good wood, relieved me—I don't think he is here—I made no examination and disturbed nothing.

MARY CASEY . I am the wife of Thomas Casey—I know the two prisoners—I knew them in Dublin—they were living in the name of Stoneman, at the Eagle Hotel, in Talbot-street—I was in Dublin at the time that hotel was burnt down—the prisoners kept it—that was last March twelve months—I heard them say they had received 400l. from the Insurance Company—the place was burnt; nothing was left standing but the walls—they had lived there nearly two years—I came over to London with some

of their property—I lived with them as servant—I don't know when that was—they were then living at 68, Brewer-street, Somerstown—I remained with them five months all but two day—I left them the Saturday morning after the house was burnt—they carried on business as butter and cheesemongers, in the name of Stebbings—the house was very well furnished when I first went there—I afterwards pledged things for them—as far at I can say it was two months before I began to pledge anything—I pledged some pictures—this is one of them, and this is the other.(looking at the two produced)—I brought them over with me from Dublin—they had been pawned there—I remember seeing these same pictures afterwards at a person's named Stonnerys—that was a week or a fortnight before the fire—before that they had been hanging up in the sitting-room in Brewer-street—I pawned those same pictures in the Caledonian-road, but I don't know the person's name—I gave the duplicate and money to my mistress, the female prisoner—I can't swear whether it was to her or her sitter—I think I got 10s. on them—I know this swing-glass—I pawned that a week or so before the fire—there was only that one swing-glass in the house—there were plenty of things taken out of the house shortly before the fire, besides what I pawned—there was bacon and cheese—my mistress took them away in a cab, packed up in hampers—I don't know where she took them to—that was a few days before the fire—I saw a family bible there—I pawned that in the Caledonian-road, at the same place as the pictures—this is it—I also pawned some merino-curtains the same week that I pawned the rest, a few days before the fire—I remember some tea being taken away—I can't say whether the master took that along with him, or whether it went in the cab with the bacon and butter and cheese—there were two occasions when things went away in a cab—Mrs. Stebbings took the tea out of a big box, and put it into another—she left the chest standing in the lobby, and brought away the tea in the chest she put it in—Stonenman was then in the sitting-room—I knew some of the pawnbroker's shops by going to her sister's, but master showed me the shop where I pawned the swing-glass—I did not know the way; he went with me—he remained outside while I went in with the glass—the master also took away from the house a traveling-bag, a portmanteau, a little trunk, and his dog—that was on the Monday before the fire—the fire was on a Sunday—I saw a chandelier there—I don't know who brought that out, but I saw it in Mr. Stonnery's room after the fire—I had brought that from Dublin with me—before master went away I heard mistress tell persons that he was going to sea in some vessel—she said before that that he should go into the country for his health—I pawned a great number of things by direction of both the prisoners, and I gave them, or Mrs. Stebbings' sister, the money and duplicates—after Stoneman had left I remember remaining in the shop to between 10 and 11 o'clock at night—the night after he left there was a big fire in the back room—the female prisoner and I went out of the house together that night a little before 12—the bed was very near the fire when we left—it was in the same place it usually was—the room is very narrow—a chair was left before the fire with some clothes upon it—she took them out of a band-box, and left them before the fire—she took a cab at King's Cross to go to her brother-in-law's—she said she did not like to call him up, it was so late—she got out of the cab—I did not—she was looking for a lodging with a policeman for half an hour—she then returned to her sister's, as she could not get a lodging—she said she gave the policeman sixpence for looking for a lodging for her—she then came back again to her sister's in Winchester-street, which is a different place to the place we drove to in the cab—I don't know where

that was—the policeman knows—her sister was frightened at seeing her come so late—it was then between 1 and 2 I dare say—she laid on the sofa in the kitchen, and I sat upon a chair till morning—she did not like to go home; she was afraid to catch the house on fire—she said she did not like to go home till morning—I told her she would kill a man as ready as she would set the house on fire—I told her that the same night after we went away—she did not speak about going home when she got, out until morning.

COURT. Q. Did she give any reason or not? A. She was afraid anybody would see her about the house which would be burning, afraid the house would not be burned in time I suppose—she was silent enough when she stayed in her sister's all night.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Did you go back again to Brewer-street? A. Yes, along with her, next morning, between 5 and 6 o'clock—there was nobody on the premises when we left the previous night—the next morning, when we went back, I saw the feather-bed, the paliasse, and the hair mattress, half burnt—nothing else was touched by the fire—the gas was left alight very low—that had not touched anything—the room was all a store with smoke; you could not go into it, and the female prisoner and I carried up water and put to the bed and feathers, and put them out as well as we could—when she saw the gas she said she would never believe gas would burn a house after that—the boards were blistered under the gas—the gas-pipe is at the partition end of the room, where you go up stairs, laid out from the boards, and they were blistered—the gas-light was about six inches from the boards—it was fixed; it could not swing—there was a globe over it—we went out again on the Wednesday night—before we went, a fire was made in the bed-room—it was on Wednesday that the bed was burnt—nothing happened on Tuesday—besides lighting the fire on the Wednesday night, she took some rags out of a band-box and left them before the fire—that only happened once—she did something with the gas on the Tuesday, and the fire was alight—she shut up the room from Wednesday night to Sunday night, and would not let anyone go into it, or go up stairs, except me—there was no lock on the door—it was shut—she kept a fire of coals all day on the Sunday in the bed-room, and she spent all day burning the wet feathers—it was as big a fire as she could make in the grate—she also wrapped up what remained of the paliasse in the hair mattress, and wrapped up the mattress, and took all the shavings out of it and threw them before the fire, and left them to dry—she split up some butter-tubs, the staves of butter-tube, and left them all before the grate—when it was all ready, she wanted me up stairs to lie down on the sofa in the sitting-room till it was time to set it on fire—when I saw the sight I said I would not lie down—I was afraid—I looked at the room, and it was so fearful I went down stairs as quick as I could, and sat down by the fire in the shop till she came down—about half an hour afterwards she came down, and told me to get out as quick as I could—I went out with her to her sister's—it was very near 12 o'clock—she slept in her sister's bed-room; I slept with her—when we went next morning, between 6 and 7 o'clock, the back had been burnt out of the house—the fire was out—I remember a little time-piece—it was on the chimney-piece the night before, and my mistress bade me bring it with me—I wrapped it up in my apron and brought it out—I pawned that for 5s. after the fire, I don't know whether it was the next day, and gave the ticket to Mrs. Stonnery—there wasn't a haporth of druggeting or carpeting left in the place on the night before the fire—there was no other clock left there—the female prisoner sent me back to Dublin the morning after—the Saturday morning

after the fire she paid my fare—I afterwards wrote to the police, because I knew it was my duty not to let such things go on.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. The female prisoner sent you back home to Dublin, did she? A. Yes; she told me her sister told her to send me home—I wished to go home to my family, and she said that I should go—she knew she took me away from the place—she wrote for me—I did not tell her that she took me away—I did not complain of that—when she said' that I must go back home I said, "Very well, ma'am"—I had my own place at home—she bade me write to her after I got back—I did write to tell her that I got safe home—she told me to write to her for some money, and said she would send me some stamps—she sent me 1s. 6d. in stamps—I only wrote to her once—I cannot recollect how often I wrote to her before I wrote to the police—I do not know whether it was as many as three or four times—she did not send me any answer—I did not threaten to go to the police, if she did not send me money—I wrote to her, bidding her not to be surprised if she saw me in, London, because I would go without, her being at any expense—I was resolved to tell her doings—that was before I wrote to the police—I asked for what she had promised me—she did not say how much she would send—she told me to write to her when I was in want, and I did so, and she sent me 1s. 6d.—it was immediately after the 1s. 6d. came that I sent a letter to the police—of course my conscience troubled me—I knew she had done the deed—it was after I recovered from my sickness that I wrote to the police—I cannot write, my daughter wrote the letter for me—I was a stranger in England, and afraid of myself—I did not know where to give evidence—I did not know anybody—when I went to the pawnbroker's I did not know that the house was going to be burnt—she told me it was for debt—I did not know the way to the police-station—she said that the house was her own, and she might do what she liked with it, the rent and taxes had been paid—I did not say anything to the police after that—I was afraid of her—I had no one else in England but her—I did not expect any money from her, because I knew she was too fond of it herself; I knew her too well for that—there was no lock on the bed-room door—she drove in a nail and tied the door with a string—she was afraid her sister's son should go in—they did not sit in that bed-room—there was not often a fire there, only just before the fire—it would not bear a fire, the room was so narrow and the bed so wide—there was a fire on the Monday night; not before that—they could not sleep with a fire; the bed was too near the fire—there never was a fire before that Monday night to my knowledge—I told a policeman what I said to the female prisoner, that she would as soon kill a man as set the house on fire—I do not know what policeman that was, whether it was the inspector or not—I cannot say whether I mentioned it before to-day to anybody, I suppose I did—I said the words to her—I do not know whether the male prisoner had been to sea when I first knew them—she told her brother one day in the sitting-room that her husband was going "on sea"—that was just before Christmas, a little before he went away—I never heard her say that he bad been at sea before that—that brother is a seafaring man, I believe—he is not here—I think it was Berkeley-street that we went to on this night, to her brother-in-law—I wrote to "The Inspector at Brewer-street, Somerstown"—I did not know any name—I do not remember whether we were drinking before we went out on the Tuesday and Wednesday night—she brought some gin in a bottle with her on the Tuesday—I did not have any on the Wednesday—her friends with her in the shop had some drink—I suppose it was gin—may be I tasted it—we did not drink a good deal before we went out.

ESTHER BECKETT . I live with my brother, at 67, Brewer-street, Somerstown, next door to the prisoners—on Sunday night, 4th January, I had been out—I returned home at a quarter to 11, and noticed the door of No. 68, on the jar—the fire broke out about 12 o'clock on that night—on the following morning, I saw the female prisoner and Mary Casey when they came home about half-past 6—the female prisoner asked me what was the matter, I said, "Enough is the matter; you have nearly frightened us all to death"—she did not say anything—I saw her again on the following Thursday—I was with my sister-in-law, Mrs. Higgins, who said to the female prisoner, "You were at home when my sister-in-law (meaning me) came home on Saturday night"—the male prisoner said, "Yes"—I was in the prisoner's front room, first-floor, on the Thursday before the fire—it was different to what I had seen it before; it appeared as if some one had been moving—there was not the furniture that there had been before—it was well furnished when I had seen it before—one evening in the week before the fire, I smelt fire between 8 and 9 o'clock—I cannot exactly say what evening it was—the female prisoner said that her husband was going to sea or, "Going on board ship"—those were the words, I believe—he has spoken of it some time prvious to his going away.

Cross-examined. Q. You said that her husband was going into the country, or going on board a ship? A. No; going to sea—she did not say that he had gone into the country, and was going on board a ship—I do not recollect anything being said about going into the country—I was examined at the Mansion House a fortnight or so after the fire.

DAVID STONNFRY . I am a labourer, of 3 Upper Winchester-street, Caledonian-road, and am brother-in-law to the female prisoner—I married her sister—the prisoner's name is Amy, or Eliza Stebbings—I am not certain which—my wife's name is Elizabeth—I went to 68, Brewer-street, from time to time to see them during the week or two before the fire—I have seen two pictures which have been produced here; I saw some pictures a week or two before the fire—I cannot swear those are the ones—I have seen in the house pictures similar to these—I cannot say whether one is a man fishing out of a tub—I fetched one or two pictures from Brewer-street, from the house where my sister-in-law lived, and took them to my own house—I cannot swear whether it was one or two—the prisoners both asked me to take it home—that might be a month, or it might be a fortnight, or a week, before the fire—it is so long ago—I did not expect to be asked such a question—I brought this chimney-glass, which has been produced, from Brewer-street to my house—I cannot say whether that was before or after I took the pictures—either one or the other of the prisoners asked me to take it.

Cross-examined. Q. Just try and recollect the time as nearly as you can; did you see the man at all during the week before the fire? A. No; I heard he was gone away, but I did not know where to—I knew that perhaps ten days, or a fortnight before the fire, from what my wife told me—he talked about going to sea—he had been to the Cape of Good Hope—I have heard him talk about it many a time, and heard him describe things at the Cape—the woman's name was Eliza Stebbings, before she was married.

COURT. Q. Did it not strike you as odd that they were living together in the name of Stebbings? A. No; I did not know the name was up till I saw it—I asked the mistress why the name of Stebbing was up; I got no answer, and asked no more questions—she was carrying on the business as

"Stebbing and Co."—I do not know whether she was carrying it on apart from her husband.

ELIZABETH STONNERY . I am the wife of the last witness—my maiden name was Stebbings, and the female prisoner is my sister—I remember the fire on 4th January; before the fire some things were brought to my house—the male prisoner brought a chandelier—I should think that was a month before the fire—I cannot speak positively as to the time—he asked me to take care of it, as the steam from the cooking would spoil it, as it had been regilded—I took care of it—that chimney-class was also brought to my house by my husband—the prisoners merely asked me to take it home, and they would send a servant for it, when they wanted it—I cannot say how long that was before the fire; my sister did not bring anything herself to the house before the fire—there were some hampers brought after the fire—on the Sunday, the night of the fire, my sister and Mary Casey came to my house—I could not say what time—I think they brought a small black clock with them, but I was in bed at the time—they slept there that night, and left the next morning—they slept at my house during that week after the fire; Casey left on the Saturday after the fire—before the fire, Mary Casey and my sister slept at my house—on a Monday night—I am certain it was the Monday night, and not the Tuesday—I was in bed when they came—one of the lodgers let them in—I saw them alter they came in—my sister did not tell me why she came there—I think she said they had been to Paddington, but could not make her brother hear, so they had come to my house—I saw those two pictures at Brewer-street, or some like them—I could not swear to them—two pictures were brought to my house before the fire by my husband—I don't know whether he brought one or two, but they were both brought there—that was at the beginning of December, I think—they were packed in paper, and tied up with string, and Casey took them away again as they were brought—they were never unpacked at our house—she never brought me the ticket of the pictures—she never returned to my house—she went home to Brewer-street.

Cross-examined. Q. Does your brother-in-law live in Upper Berkeley-street? A. Yes; he is the prisoner's brother—I should think it was quite a month before the fire when my brother-in-law brought the chandelier—that is the last thing that was brought, except the pictures and the glass—that was before Christmas—I had often been, to 68, Brewer-street—there were a good many nice things in the house—I believe it was my sister's business—I don't know where the pictures were brought from—I first saw them after they went to Brewer's-street—there were several pictures there—I went into the back room, but I did not notice the subjects—I first flaw Stoneman about twelve months ago—he has been to sea, as steward of a vessel.

GEORGE STONEMAN . I am the brother of the male prisoner, and live at 23, Upper Berkeley-street, Edgeware-road—I remember Sunday, 4th January—I heard of the fire the next morning—during the week, immediately before that, the female prisoner and Casey called on me—it was either on Wednesday or Thursday night—they remained there one night, and left, I should say, about 8 or 9 o'clock the next morning—the female prisoner brought some knives and forks with her one night, but I won't swear that it was that night—I did not receive them—I saw them in my house—I think that was before the fire; I am pretty well sure it was—she asked me to redeem two valuable paintings, which were pawned in the Caledonian road—I got the pawn-tickets from Mrs. Stollery, and redeemed the pictures the morning after the fire—I afterwards handed them

over to the officer—those are the two which have been produced—I can't recollect the date when I handed them over, but it was on a Sunday morning, about 11 o'clock, about three weeks after the fire, perhaps more, after the prisoners were in custody—they were at my house in the meantime.

Cross-examined. Q. Directly you heard there was any question about them, you handed them over? A. I did; I received the money to redeem them from Mrs. Stonnery—I believe she got it from her sister—my brother has been to sea as steward of a ship—he was at first a servant out of livery, in a gentleman's family, for some years—he then went to service as butler, to the Cape, and came from there as steward of a vessel—I never knew him to have the slightest stain upon his character—he lived in first-rate families.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Did Mrs. Stebbings say anything to you about getting the money before you got it? A. Yes; she said she would leave the money with her sister, and the duplicates—I should think it was twelve or thirteen years ago that my brother went out to the Cape, and came back as steward.

MR. METCALFE. Q. What did he do after that? A. He went into service again, as butler—he continued in service up to the last three years—I lived in the same family with him—I believe he afterwards kept an hotel in Dublin—I don't know anything about that—the female prisoner was a servant in the same family as my brother—I should think that is between eight and nine years ago.

ALFRED KEEVIL . I am assistant to Mr. Frederick Ohlson, a pawnbroker, of 55, Caledonian-road—I know Mary Casey—on 27th December, she brought these two pictures—the foreman took them in—I was present at the time—10s. was advanced upon them—they were redeemed on 5th January—on 9th December, two clocks and some carpeting was pledged—I cannot say by whom.

HENRY LASKEY . I am assistant to Mr. Ohlson—Mary Casey pledged this clock and shade on 31st December, and this timepiece on the 9th, and this bible on 15th.

WILLIAM PADDINGTON . I am assistant to Mr. Needes, a the 6th of January, I think, I saw the female prisoner with a cab in Berkeley-street, about a quarter to 1 in the morning—it was after Christmas—she was standing at the door of 23, Upper Berkeley-street, ringing the bell—I asked her if she could not get in—she said, "No, she could not make them hear"—I then pulled the bell, but got no answer—she asked me to try and get her some lodgings, and I went with her—a female was with her in the cab—I did not see who it was—we did not succeed in getting a lodging, and she gave me 6d. and the cab drove away to Euston-square.

Cross-examined. Q. How long were they there? A. Half an hour at least trying to get a bed.

JOHN ROBERT CARTER . I am a coffee-house keeper at 5, Bridge-road, Stratford, Essex—on 29th December, the prisoner's took lodgings at my house for a day or two—the man came the first night and stopped there—he stayed there, I think, one month—the female prisoner came at different times—I think she came the Tuesday and Wednesday following the 29th I won't be certain, she slept there at times—she paid for the lodgings, and I gave these receipts (produced).

Cross-examined. Q. How often did the woman come down? A. I should say ten or twelve times, but I won't be certain—he took the lodgings in the name of Stebbings—I think he said he would take the lodgings for one or two days as he expected to go to sea—he was not in good health at the time—I don't know whether he was looking out for a ship; he was not out for long during the day—he said he had a brother who was captain of a vessel, and he expected to go with him—he was never away a whole day—I am certain of that.

MR. METCALFE to GEORGE STONEMAN. Q. Has the prisoner a brother-in-law who is a captain of a vessel? A. No; the female prisoner has—I don't know where he is now—I believe he is at sea, but where I cannot say—I don't know the name of the vessel, or if the captain's name is Stebbings.

ELIZABETH STONNERY (re-examined). I have a brother who is captain of a vessel, it is now at Shields—it is a coaster, and brings coals from Shields to London, and sometimes goes to Hamburg.

WILLIAM HAYHOW . I live at 38A, Whitechapel-road, and am a boot and shoe manufacturer—in July last, I was landlord of 68l., Brewer-street—the female prisoner called upon me at that time, and then afterwards with the male prisoner—I ultimately let her the house, and the rent was paid in advance for the whole of the time—they gave me the name of Stebbings—I gave a receipt for the rent and fixtures to the female prisoner.

FREDERICK GIBSON (Inspector G). I was with Cooke, a constable, in the Caledonian-road, on 26th March—I stopped the prisoners and said I was an inspector of police, and I apprehended them upon a charge of defrauding the Imperial Fire Insurance Company of 60l.—both replied, "Oh, very well, very well"—I took them to 79, Frederick-street, where they were lodging—I searched the second floor front room, and found thirteen hams, ten pieces of bacon, and one cheese—these forty-seven duplicates (produced) were given to me by the female prisoner—I said to her, "Have you anything at your sister's?"—she said, "Yes, I can take all the Insurance Company can give me, God rules the devil"—I then took the prisoners in a cab from Frederick-street, to 3, Upper Winchester-street, where the Stonnery's live—Cooke went in and saw what passed there.

JOHN COOKE (Policeman, S 198). I went with the last witness to Frederick-street, and afterwards to 3, Upper Winchester-street—I made a search there, and in the back room on the first floor I found two boxes—one containing tea, seven hams, one side of bacon, six cheeses, and one tub of butter—the female prisoner opened the door of the room with a key—she said the things belonged to her, that she paid half-a-crown a week for the room, and her sister knew nothing about it—I took her to the station—I afterwards received the two pictures produced from the witness George Stoneman.

Cross-examined. Q. A great many of these duplicates allude to the property which the pawnbroker's have been called to prove? A. I believe

there are fourteen which refer to property produced by the pawnbrokers—the key produced by the female prisoner was given to her by her sister—the male prisoner said, "You can come with me to 3, Winchester-street"—when I apprehended him—the female was present—she did not say that to me—I said, "I shall first go to Frederick-street," and we went to both.

GUILTY .— Fifteen Years' Penal Servitude each.

FOURTH COURT.—Saturday, May 16th, 1863.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-738a
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation
SentenceImprisonment; Miscellaneous > sureties

Related Material

738. SAMUEL HOWLETT (26), WILLIAM HAMMOND (21) JAMES WILLIAM HAMMOND (22), and JAMES LEWIS (52) , Feloniously killing and slaying Samuel Rivett, the younger.

MR. PALMER conducted the Prosecution.

EDMOND WOOD . I am a carpenter, of 4, Middlesex-terrace, Hackney—I was at Hackney-marshes on the morning of Easter Monday; it was the part near Bow—I was never there before; it was an open field—there were a hundred persons present—about half-past 6 in the morning, I saw the prisoner Howlett there, and the deceased Rivett; they were both stripped—there was no ring made, only by the people—the prisoner Howlett and the deceased were in an open space—they then began to fight—they fell several times—I waited until it was over; they fought about an hour—when they fell they were sometimes assisted up—I could not tell who assisted; they were strangers—I cannot say whether or not the same persons picked them up on each occasion—I saw the deceased at the end of the fight on the field, lying on the ground—I did not see him struck down—I did not see him removed—I next saw him at the "Morpeth Castle" public-house, lying on the table—that is, I think, three or four hundred yards from the field—there were some men standing round him, but I did not stop to see what they were doing; they were rubbing him—he appeared to be insensible—I did not hear any one speak to him—I was present at the "Mary Ann Arms" public-house before the fight—I saw Howlett there, and he put some money down; it was 3l. 10s., I believe—I lent him some money, but for what purpose I do not know—he asked me to lend him some money, as he had done before—he said, "Wood, lend me a couple of pounds," and I heard no more of it until I heard from him afterwards what it was for—I asked him what he put the money down for, and he said he was going to fight a party—I knew who it was; he said Rivett—there was nothing more said—he did not tell me when, or say anything about the fight—when the money was put down, Howlett, myself, the two Hammonds, were present—their father keeps the house—I did not notice any one else—they were on the serving side of the bar—I did not know what became of the money; I did not see any one pick it up.

Cross-examined by MR. DALEY. Q. How long have you known Howlett? A. Twelve years—he has always been a quiet and peaceable man—I knew deceased about four years—I heard Rivett challenge Howlett—he challenged the whole four several times—he did not challenge me especially, he challenged all, whoever liked to take it up—he was an excitable, nervous man when he had been having drink—I have known him to be unable to resume work in consequence of trembling and nervousness after drinking—I have seen him become insensible, from some kind of fit, two or three times—having been drunk, he would be excited, and sing, and then go off into a

fainting state—that occurred three or four times slightly, but once very bad—at the fight there was a good deal of swaying and moving about—when the men fell the people were pressing on them, and then moving back to make room again—I did not see who lifted the men up—Rivett had a good deal the best of the fight all the first part—he dropped several times without being hit; it was what they call "flinching" from Howlett—I heard some of the crowd calling out to Rivett as to how he was to strike Howlett—he was nearly blind, and they said, "Hit him on the other eye"—one was quite blind, and the other was much swollen, so that he must have won if the other had been hit—he tried after that to hit pretty hard—Howlett bled wonderfully—I cannot say how long Rivett was left on the ground after filling—he was left on the grass half an hour before he was removed—I did not see any covering put on him—it was early in the morning—the grass was damp.

COURT. Q. What became of you during the half-hour? A. I went away—from the time I saw him on the grass until I saw him again was half an hour—I think he was left half an hour before he was brought in—I saw him knocked down insensible—I never interfered—there were plenty of people round—I was about the first that left the place.

MR. PALMER. Q. Did not any one object to his being unfit to fight because he was excitable? A. No; we all hindered him from fighting a great many times, but we let him fight in this case—though knowing he was going to fight, I did not stop him or tell him that he was unfit to fight—I remained an hour, until it was all over, though I could not always see.

COURT. Q. You knew of the fight, and went down to see it, I suppose? A. Yes; I did not go down with a great many others—I knew of it about a week before—I did not see marks upon the deceased; none at all—I saw blows struck upon him; they were in different places—I could not tell exactly where he was hit; it was about the breast at times—he did not seem hurt at all—I did not see any unfair blow struck by Howlett—I am quite certain of that.

WILLIAM ROBERT PIERPOINT . I live at 18, Well-street, Hackney—on Easter Monday, at half-past 6 in the morning, I was in Hackney-marshes—I saw the fight between the deceased Rivett and Howlett—there were about a hundred persons present, and a ring was formed by the people, but no rope ring—I believe there were "seconds," but who they were I do not know—I saw some person with a sponge in his hand, but I did not see it used, nor did I see anybody with a watch in hand—I remained about ten minutes or a quarter of an hour—I saw the beginning of the fight—both parties hit one another, and knocked one another down several times.

Cross-examined by MR. DALEY. Q. Did Rivett ever challenge you? A. Yes; that was three or four weeks previously to this fight—he has challenged the whole firm—I have known Howlett for twelve years; he was generally quiet and peaceable—I heard a great deal of hallooing during the fight—I heard same one say to Rivett in the commencement, if he saw a blow coming, and could not get away in time, to fall—I saw him fell afterwards, and he fell at the first commencement of the fight—I mean falling with a blow, and falling to avoid one—I do not know the rules of fighting—I should not think it was a fair way of fighting.

COURT. Q. Did you see the other three prisoners there? A. Yes.

JOHN PRIOR . I reside at 5 Goldsmith's-row, Hacknty, and was present at the fight—I saw the prisoner Lewis there—some one brought him a

sponge, and he sponged Howlett over the eyes, which were bleeding—I only. saw Rivett, Howlett, and Lewis.

Cross-examined by MR. DALEY. Q. Was Howlett a good deal punished? A. He was bleeding profusely—the deceased had the best of the fight until nearly the last—I saw him sometimes drop without being struck—I did not hear any one call out to him—the deceased had appeared to be the best man up to the last two rounds.

Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. How near were you to Howlett while the fight was going on? A. Sometimes I was close on the ring—the sponge handed to Lewis came from some one in the crowd—I won't say what part of the fight that was; I think it was at the commencement.

MR. PALMER. Q. In what condition was the deceased during the last two rounds? A. He came up with his head hanging on one side, and that caused great confusion—I got out, and saw no more of the fight—the crowd all got together—I suppose they fancied it was getting towards the end.

COURT. Q. You did not see the end? A. No; I speak of up to the last two rounds; I did not see them—I do not know what round it was that Rivett came up with his head hanging on one side—I heard there were two more rounds—when I went away Rivett was coming up with his head hanging on one side—his "seconds" brought him up; he had two "seconds"—he was lifted up from the ground—I went away because I had seen enough of the fight—I went to the public-house where the man was brought back—I was there perhaps half an hour to that—I do not know who brought him—he was carried along by three or four men to the "Morpeth Castle"—that is not quite half a mile from where the fight was—the deceased was insensible—they laid him on a table, and rubbed him with vinegar on the chest—he remained about half an hour after he was brought in.

MR. DALEY. Q. What hour was it when you left the ground? A. I should think it must have been about 8—it was about half an hour before I saw Kivett at the public-house—I saw no unfair blow struck—I had not known of the fight before that morning—I generally take a walk in the morning, and I saw this crowd on the marshes at a little after 7.

EDMOND VALENTINE . I live at Exeter Cottage, Old Ford-road, and am a bricklayer—I was present at the commencement of the fight—I saw Howlett and Lewis there—I saw Lewis rubbing Howlett's face once, and heard him say, "Drive in with your right"—I do not know whether he addressed Howlett or the other one—I cannot exactly say the position he was in; he was among the crowd—he was as far from one as the other; they were all over the field in the course of fighting—I could not say what round it was; I was not in the ring all the time—I saw a man holding a watch, keeping time, but who it was I do not know—he cried out, "Time!" at the commencement of every round.

COURT. Q. When did you first know of it? A. On the Wednesday morning before it took place I went out with my gun—I heard there was a fight coming off, but whether it was this fight I do not know—the person who told me works at the pitch factory over the bridge—I saw the crowd assembled, and walked over to see it—I waited until it ended by one of the combatants being carried off the ground—I cannot say whether before he was carried off he fell—I was not in the crowd until the last round—having a gun with a hair-trigger, I thought there might be an accident, and I stood on some rails—in the last round I saw a commotion; I said, "I think it is all over"—I ran up to the crowd, and I saw some one throw a cap up, and the deceased lying on the ground, with a horsecloth over the lower port of

his person—a man whose name I heard mentioned as Grant was acting as his "second," said, "Who will carry him off will some of you carry him?"—two or three objected, and a person came up and said, "I have a trap, put him in that;" but at last two persons carried him off the field in, I should say, five or six minutes afterwards—they took two or three minutes trying to put on his shirt, and when they could not do so they threw a horsecloth' over his shoulders; they were both stripped to the waist—I met a friend, and did not follow the crowd—I went to the Morpeth Castle, and saw him on the table, and two men rubbing him with vinegar—he was insensible.

HENRY ROBINSON . I am a groom, residing at 5, Bell-row, Old Ford—I was at the fight between Rivett and Howlett—a ring was formed by the people—I only recognise Lewis as being there—I saw him wet a sponge from the water in the reservoir—he returned and handed it to the man that had Howlett on his knee—I stayed to the end of the fight—Rivett seemed then insensible; his eyes rolled about, and he had no use in them—he was knocked down by Howlett on his back, and was lying on the ground—I do not know where the blow hit him—he seemed all of a shiver, and foamed at the mouth—he was then wrapped in a horse-rug and carried off—before he was knocked down he was held up by his seconds—he did not seem to know what he was doing.

Cross-examined by MR. DALEY. Q. When he was held up by his seconds, did they go away from him? A. They stood back—he did not fall of himself; he was knocked down—he was not pushed—I cannot say in what position his arms were—I was not inside the ring—I do not know whether it was a hard blow or not, or whether it was on the head or chest—Rivett might have had his arms up in a position of defence.

COURT. Q. Did you see Rivett brought up the last round but one? A. Yes—he seemed insensible then—his seconds brought him up—he was knocked down by Howlett—he seemed to be able to defend himself a little the last round but one—his eyes were not rolling or his mouth foaming the last round but one—the last round it was so—he seemed all of a cold shiver the last round—it was a very short time after he was held up that he was knocked down—I do not suppose it was more than half a minute.

JOHN ODDY . I reside at Weston-street, Stratford, and am a signal-man on the Great Eastern Railway—I was present at part of the fight between Rivett and Howlett some time after 7—I do not know how long they had been fighting—I saw ail four of the prisoners there—Lewis had got a sponge or rag washing Howlett's face when I saw him—William Hammond had a watch in his hand, and was calling "time" while the fight was proceeding—when they had fallen he called "time" for them to come up again—he had two. men as seconds—I do not know who they were—they bathed his head a great deal with cold water out of a basin; I do not know by whom—I did not remain to the end—I was there some time; then I went away for a few minutes, and went back again—while I was to and fro they fought about a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes I should think—I was there before the last round began—when his seconds set him up he was first let go, and knocked down again directly—he made no defence with his hands the last round—he did not seem capable of anything—I saw him fall—he lay there about five or six minutes; I cannot tell exactly—there was a loud talking and noise—I did not hear anything said in particular—if I am to speak the truth, I should say it was not a fair fight in the last round, because the man could not stand up to fight.

Cross-examined by MR. DALEY. Q. Did his seconds loose hold of him? A.

As soon as they got him up, they were just going to let go, and he was hit again—he was hardly let go when he was hit—he was hardly standing—I believe he would have dropped if he had not been knocked down—the deceased seemed to be the best man all through the early part of the fight—Howlett was a good deal punished—he hit the deceased in the neck, I believe, the last time—he did not hit him very hard, not so hard as the last round before.

Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. Who got you to give evidence about this fight? A. That is my business—the policeman came down—I give my evidence according to my own opinion—I do not know why I did not tell you at first that the policeman came down—I have never seen him but twice in my life, and then it was in the signal-box—I do not know that he told me what I was to do—he asked me about the fight, and told me I must give evidence before the Coroner—I am signal-man now—I cannot say I deserted my post that morning—people came on the line, and it is my duty, when I see people on the line trespassing, to order them off, and they were fighting in a field below—I was suspended by the Railway Company, but the Directors thought it was part of my duty to order the people off the line, and the place from which I saw the fight was not above a hundred yards from my post—I went away a hundred yards and into the field—I cannot say how long I was there—I did not look at the time; it might have been a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes—I was not mixed up with all the rabble that was there—I did not want to see—I did not know anything about any of them—it was before I was on duty—the first train had not run—it was half an hour before—the train is not down there until half-past 7—I ordered them off the line, and then I went on to see the fight.

MR. PALMER. Q. Is that but a short distance from your box? A. About a hundred yards—I was suspended for a time in consequence of leaving for that short distance, but after my explanation of the case to them, the Directors restored me at the recommendation of the Magistrate, and I was told by the Board of Directors to go back to my duty again.

COURT. Q. Were you told that, in consequence of the evidence you had given in reference to this, you would be restored? A. I told the Chairman that, in consequence of there being a fight, the people were standing on the line, and I ordered them off and stopped to see the fight a few minutes—I was ordered out of the room and called in again, and the Chairman said, "Well, Oddy, you are an old servant, you have been sixteen years signalman and bear a good character; go back to your duty, and we will allow the penalty of your being suspended," and I went back to my duty again.

HENRY BARNETT (Policeman, 299 K). I took Howlett on 7th April—I told him I came to take him on a charge of fighting—he said, "Yes, I am quite willing to go"—I told him where he fought.

GEORGE ATKINS (Policeman, 463 K). I took the Hammonds into custody on 15th April—I told them I charged them with aiding and assisting Howlett in causing the death of Samuel Rivett—they said they were at the fight on the morning in question, but denied aiding and assisting him—I also told them that they were further charged with receiving a certain amount of money as stakes—the elder Hammond said he did not receive any money, and the other made no reply—I took Lewis on 17th April—I told him he was charged with aiding and assisting Howlett in causing the death of Rivett—he said he was at the fight on the morning, but did not aid or assist.

JAMES APPLEYARD . I am house-surgeon to the London Hospital—the de

ceased was brought in on the morning of 6th April, a few minutes before 10—I examined his body—he was dead when I saw him—I made a post-mortem examination—I found marks of contusions over the head, face, chest, shoulders, and hands; the scalp was extravasated with blood—on removing the skull-cap, I found a large coagulum of congested blood on both hemispheres of the brain, which was congested—the lungs and air passages were congested also—all the other organs were perfectly healthy—I attribute death to the effusion of blood on the brain, which could be caused by a blow at a prize fight—hearing what happened before, I do not entertain any doubt that effusion had been caused by the violence that had been inflicted.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. May effusion of blood on the brain be caused by other means than violence? A. Yes; from disease, of from a sudden rupture of one of the vessels in the brain—a rupture of one of the vessels in the brain sometimes takes place without there having been external violence, as in the case of apoplexy—excitement brought on, whether from physical or mental causes, will result in apoplexy or the rupture of the vessels of the brain; it depends upon the age in a great measure—it is very extraordinary to see it under a certain age—in my own experience, I have not found it any so young.

Q. I am asking you, as a gentleman of science and reading on this matter, no age is exempt from it under certain circumstances? A. I cannot fully answer that question; not from disease; from injury—I never heard of it occurring in anyone so young—mental excitement might produce a rupture of a blood vessel in the brain at any age—when there is a rupture quite independent of any blow or any fall, there is generally ossification of the tissues—I cannot say that the excitement of fighting a person who has undergone training would produce a rupture by the sudden change from severity of living to the excitement of fighting, without violence—I could not say, unless the tissues of the blood vessels had been diseased—it might, but I cannot say—I have never known a case occur except in cases where the tissues of the vessels have been diseased by bony deposits—from my examination I observed general extravasation over the two hemispheres of the brain—I should not expect to find extravasation only at the particular spot where a person has received injury from a blow or a kick—it depends upon where the blow was struck—if he received a blow over the temple, and the skull was fractured, and an artery ruptured, I should expect to find extravasation from the concussion to the head throughout—if there was a large blood vessel ruptured, it would flow all over the interior surface; it would depend also upon what position the body laid in; the blood would gravitate—I could not swear what particular vessel in the brain was ruptured—some might be produced by the post mortem in the act of getting off the skull-cap—the longitudinal sinus was ruptured in two places—I could not say whether that was produced before death or after—great force is required in removing the skull-cap—this clot could not have been caused by the removal of the skull-cap—no doubt, when the skull-cap is torn off, it must rupture some of the vessels—you are obliged to take the calvarium off with great force—the rupture of a blood vessel would be doubtful, but I have no doubt about the clot—it was not a clot in one single place, but over both hemispheres.

MR. PALMER. Q. To the best of your judgment, considering all that has been said, was the rupture caused by mental excitement or violence? A. By violence.

SAMUEL RIVETT . I reside at 8, Prospect-place, and am the father of the ceased—he was twenty-three years of age in the March preceding his death—I last saw him alive on 6th April, at quarter to 5 in the morning in

my own house—he was then in good health—there was nothing the matter with him that I am aware of—he was as healthy a young man as could he found—I never knew of his having fits or falling from excitement—he scarcely ever had a headache in his life—I cannot say he was sober in his habits, but he was not a drunkard—he came home tipsy sometimes, principally on a Saturday when he had been taking his money—he was paid at a public-house—I never knew of his having any serious illness.

Lewis and the two Hammonds received good characters.

GUILTY .—Strongly recommended to mercy by the Jury, considering that the deceased provoked the fight.— Confined two months each, and to enter into recognisances to keep the peace.


Before Mr. Recorder.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-739
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

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739. JOHN STEPHENSON (24), and THOMAS JOKES (16), PLEADED GUILTY to stealing 1 cwt. 58 lbs. of metal pipe, the property of William George Winchman .—STEPHENSON Confined Twelve Months. —THOMAS JONES— Six Months.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-740
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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740. ANN PRIOR (23), was indicted for unlawfully endeavouring to conceal the birth of her child.—MR. WAY conducted the Prosecution; and MR. ORRIDGE the Defence.


11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-741
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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741. CHARLES JONES (28) , Stealing a pair of pistols, value 12l., the property of William George Groves, in his dwelling-house.

MR. LAXTON conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM GEORGE GROVES . I am a surgeon at Woodford—on Saturday, 5th April, I was possessed of a pair of pistols in a case and two photographic lenses—on that day the brace of pistols were in the case on a box in a back room on the ground-floor, and the lenses were on the table—I saw them safe late on Saturday night, and on the Monday morning they were gone—they must have been stolen—the door of the room was shut, but not locked—it communicated directly with the backyard—I attended on the following Friday at the police-court—the prisoner was there, and one of my pistols was produced by the constable—this is it—I identified it at the police-court.

WILLIAM MARTIN . I am a butcher of Woodford—on Wednesday, 6th April, at half-past 12, I saw the prisoner in Woodford New-road, going towards the prosecutor's house—about a quarter-past 1, I saw him again about 100 yards from the house, coming away—he had something under his coat, which appeared like a dressing-case, brass bound at the corners—he passed me—I walked on some distance, thinking something was wrong—he then ran round the corner into the forest—that was the last I saw of him.

JOHN CLARK (Policeman, K 491). On 6th April, about 3 o'clock in the afternoon, I saw the prisoner at Mr. Byas's, a pawnbroker's in George-street, Ratcliffe-highway, offering this pistol in pledge, for 6s.—I was at the door, and could hear what be said—I was in uniform—he saw me—I asked him about it and he said he got it off his brother for 8s.—I asked him where he lived—he said he lived in Union-street, Whitechapel, but he could not tell the number—I took him into custody, and took possession of the pistol—produced it at the police-court, and I produce it now—I made a charge against the prisoner of unlawful possession.

COURT. to WILLIAM GEORGE GROVES. Q. Was the case brass bound at the corners? A. Yes; and also at the sides—it would look like a dressing-case—being a medical man, my yard gate is always left open, and any one could come in—I very seldom go into into this room on Sunday, and that is why I did not miss the things till the Monday.

Prisoner's Defence. I received the pistol, but I did not steal it.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-742
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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742. THOMAS FISHER (23) , Stealing a watch, the property of Obadiah Corbett, from his person.

MR. ROWDEN conducted the Prosecution.

OBADIAH CORBET . I live, at 1, Halsville-Cottages, West Ham, and am an iron boat-builder—about half-past 9 o'clock on the night of 4th May, I was in Halsville-road, Plaistow-marsh, looking at a man selling jewellery—there were some people there, and I felt the prisoner's hand in my pocket, taking my watch out—I had seen my watch not many minutes before—I tried to catch hold of the prisoner, but he ran against me and I could not—I saw him with the watch, and another witness saw him pass it—I valued it at 30s.—I have never seen it since—I never lost the prisoner till the officer came up—my watch-guard was not broken; the rivet through the ring of the watch was broken.

Prisoner. Q. Did you see a lad about fourteen at your right arm? A. No—I did not see anything in your hand; you dropped something, but I don't know what.

THOMAS LYONS . I am a labourer, of 10, Victoria-dock-terrace, West Ham—on the night of 4th May, about half-past 9, I was by the prosecutor in a crowd—I saw the prisoner on his right side—I noticed him moving in different parts of the crowd, and heard the prosecutor say, "I have lost my watch"—directly he said that the prisoner got in front of him, put his hand over my shoulder with something white and round in it, and passed it to somebody else, who made his way out of the crowd—the prosecutor had hold of the prisoner then, and I caught hold of his other arm and pulled it down, but the watch was gone—the prisoner said, "I have not got your watch, but I know who has."

Prisoner. Q. Had I not some songs in my hand? A. No—it was not a bundle of songs that you passed over.

GEORGE PAGE (Policeman, K 55). On 4th May the prisoner was given into my custody by the prosecutor, who charged him with stealing his watch—the prisoner said he did not know anything about it—I searched him immediately, and found some songs and twopence in copper on him; nothing else.

Prisoner's Defence. I was standing in this crowd for curiosity, and saw a lad by the side of the prosecutor, and happened to go past him, and he said, "You have got my watch;" I looked, and the lad was gone; I said, "I have not; you can search me;" there was a great crowd, and they knocked me about; I am innocent.

GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, ESQ.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-743
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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743. ELIZABETH WRIGHT (24) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

ANNIE STEWARD . I am assistant to Mr. Beasley, a draper, at Stratford—on Thursday, 7th May, about half-past 5 in the evening, the prisoner came

to the shop, and I served her with some ribbon, which was 6 3/4d.—she gave me a bad half-crown; I gave her change, and she left the shop—I gave that half-crown to Miss Nicholl, the cashier.

ELIZA NICHOLL . The last witness gave me a half-crown, from which I took 6 3/4d., and gave her the change—I put the half-crown in a pigeon-hole at the back of my desk—Mr. Beasley came in soon alter and took it up—it was a bad one.

HENRY BEASLEY . I found this half-crown was bad, and afterwards gave it to the constable Brooks.

SEPTIMUS MORRIS . I am a stationer, at Stratford, about three doors from Mr. Beasley—on Thursday, 7th May, the prisoner came to my shop, about 6 or 7 o'clock, and asked for some steel pens—she gave me a half-crown, and I gave her change—I kept the half-crown in my hand; I had some suspicion about it—Brooks came in while I was examining it, and I gave it to him at the station—he went after the prisoner.

WILLIAM BROOKS (Policeman, K 44). I went to Mr. Morris's shop and received some information about the prisoner—I had seen her in the shop before I went in—I went after her and took her into custody in Skinner's-court, about 80 or 100 yards from Mr. Morris's—she had a purse in one hand and something in the other—I took hold of both her hands and said she must come to the station—with the assistance of the inspector and a constable I opened her hand, and found these two counterfeit half-crowns (produced)—I also received a half-crown from Mr. Morris, and another from Mr. Beasley (produced)—the purse contained 6s. in good money, and the female searcher handed me 2s. 3d., and 4 1/2 d. in coppers, good money, and said in the presence of the prisoner, "That is all I have found on her."

WILLIAM WEBSTER , These four half-crowns are counterfeit, and the two that were passed are from the same mould.

Prisoner's Defence. I did not know that they were bad; a man gave me one half-crown for some stamps I had.

GUILTY .*— Confined Fifteen Months.


Before the Recorder.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-744
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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744. JOSEPH HOLLAND (47) , Stealing money to the amount of 36l., the property of Thomas Barker, and other articles, in the dwelling-house of Richard Beckham.

THOMAS BARKER I live at 3, Reginald-place, Deptford—the prisoner lodged in the same room and the same bed, and there were two other lodgers, named Beckham and Jones, in the same room—on 9th April I went to bed about 9 o'clock; the prisoner was then in bed—I had 6s. 6d. and a half-crown in my waistcoat pocket, which I put at the foot of the bed—at half-past 4 next morning I missed the money—my pocket was turned inside out and the prisoner was gone—I saw him on the Tuesday following in custody—shortly before I lost my money he had borrowed money in small sums of me and of all the parties in the house, to buy victuals.

JOHN JONES . I lived in the same room with the last witness and the prisoner—on 10th April I got up at half-past 4; the prisoner had then gone—no other lodger had left; they were all in bed—I found a sovereign and a handkerchief was gone.

JOHN WILLIAM ROBERTS . I keep the King's Arms public-house, Tothill-street, Westminster—on 10th April the prisoner came to me for some

refreshment—he afterwards gave me 20l. to look after for him—he lodged in my house three or four days—I gave up the remainder of the money when the constable came, and also a watch—I have seen the prisoner with a handkerchief like the one produced—he never asked for those articles.

GEORGE BIGGS (Policeman, A 258). I apprehended the prisoner at the Kings Arms on 14th April—I asked him if his name was not Holland—he said it was—he had no boots on, and I asked him where they were—he said he had sold them—I asked him where he lodged, and he said he had no lodging, but had slept in the streets last night—I then told him I apprehended him for absconding from his lodgings, and stealing 37l—he said he did not take it away—I searched him at the station, but found nothing but an empty purse—I heard his boots were at the house where I apprehended him—I took him there, and asked the barman if he had the boots—he said, "Yes"—I also asked if the prisoner lodged there, and he said, "Yes," and his clothes were up stairs—he then gave me three bundles, and the landlord gave me this handkerchief a silver watch, eleven sovereigns, half a crown, and fourpence—the prisoner did not say anything—when I got him down at Greenwich, he said, before the inspector, "That is my watch."

JOHN WILLIAM BOBBRTS (re-examined.) He deposited with me 20l., and had 3l. back—the remainder he drank and spent and gave away.

Prisoner. I have been regularly in work, and earned a deal of money; I worked hard for it.

GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-745
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

745. EDWARD HALL (14), was indicted for embezzlement MR. LANGFORD conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES EVENDEN . I am a dairyman, at Plumstead—the prisoner has been in my service about seven weeks—I paid him 2s. 6d. a week, and promised him more if he behaved himself—he had to go for milk to Mr. Holloway, of North Woolwich—we booked it daily, as it was delivered—on 24th February, I think, I gave him 2s. 6d. to buy twelve quarts of milk—I gave him orders to bring back word whether he had paid it—I several times asked him whether he paid it, and he said he had—on the 25th, I gave him 3s. 4d. for sixteen quarts—my wife used to keep my book; it was entered at the time—he said he had paid that—on 26th, I gave him 3s. 4d.—I believe he brought the milk—I frequently asked him if he had paid, and he said, "Yes"—I gave him into custody—he did not say anything—I did not say what money I charged him with taking—I do not know whether I mentioned Holloway's name.

Prisoner. Q. Did you not tell me to say to him you could not send for the milk as it was so bad? A. I never sent any such message—I did not tell you to say I would go over and see him.

STEPHEN HOLLOWAY . I am a cow-keeper, of North Woolwich—on 24th February the prisoner came and asked for twelve quarts of milk, which I gave him—he said his master did not send the money—sometimes he would pay one day and leave a day—he came on the 25th and 26th, and did not pay on those days—I did not ask him any question—I do not recollect his saying the milk was so bad that the customers did not like it—I told him to tell his master he must send the money, or I should not let him have more milk.

JOHN MANGER (Policeman, R 154). I took the prisoner into custody on 13th April.

MARY EVENDEN . I am the wife of Charles Evenden—the entries in the

book (produced) are in my handwriting—the prisoner had those sums to pay for milk.

Prisoner. They never kept a book. Witness. These entries were those entries made; he did not see me enter them.

COURT. to CHARLES EVENDEN. Q. Did he have on the 24th February that precise sum of money? A. The milk came to that—sometimes I would give him three days at once—that would be 7s. 6d.

COURT. to STEPHEN HOLLOWAT. Q. Did the prosecutor pay for three or four days' milk at a time? A. The first week he paid part; then he used to leave a day or two—sometimes it would go on to the amount of 10s. or 12s.—for three or four years previously to that—on 15th March he brought 5s.; I would not let him have any more milk.


The prisoner was charged upon other indictments with like offences, upon which no evidence was offered.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-746
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

746. MARGARET SHEEN (16), and EDWARD CLARKE (26) , Unlawfully attempting to steal 1 florin, the money of Edward Lee.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN LANGFORD . I live in Trafalgar-road, Greenwich—on 8th April, a little after 4 o'clock, I saw the prisoners with another men and woman drinking in the Lord Nelson public-house, Greenwich; soon afterwards Sheen came into my shop—in consequence of something I had heard I followed her out, first to the Victoria and then to the Lord Nelson, where they joined, and on their leaving there I followed them as far as the College—I there pointed them out to Bidgland—I saw no more of them.

Cross-examined by MR. DICKIE. Q. What became of the other two? A. I don't know; they were all four together when I first Saw them—Ridgman is not here; he is too ill to attend.

JOHN LUCAS . I keep a tobacconist's shop on Blackheath-hill—about 8 o'clock on the evening of 8th April Sheen came, for two cigars, and tendered a half-sovereign in payment—I tested it by biting it—upon that she called in Clarke, and said, "Ned, this man has bent your half-sovereign"—I said, "If I have, and it is a good one, I will give you change"—the man made a bit of a bother—he said, "Come up to the jeweller's and have it tested"—we went to a jeweller's, and it was found to be a good one—we then returned to the shop, and I gave 9s. 9d. change—the two cigars came to 3d.—Clarke refused to take the cigars and his 9s. 9d., and wanted another half-sovereign instead of the one I had bent—I refused to give him another one, and eventually he took the change and the cigars, and they left.

EDWIN BOTTRELL . I keep the Fisherman's Arms, Greenwich—on the night of 8th April, about half past 9, the two prisoners and another woman came, and called for a pint of ale; my brother served them, and gave them change for a half-sovereign—Sheen asked for two bottles of ginger-beer to take away with her, and gave a half-sovereign in payment—my brother gave her two half-crowns and 4s. change—as soon as she had got the change in her hand she said she wanted three bottles—I said I did not keep them—she then wanted her half-sovereign back, and she put 8s. on the counter instead of 9s.—I distinctly saw the other shilling in her hand; my brother asked her for the other shilling—she said, "That is all you gave me"—my brother caught hold of her hand, and she dropped it on the onside of the counter—as soon as Sheen bad got the change, Clarke and the other woman left—I went and brought Clarke back, and charged him with being connected

with her—he denied knowing anything of her till, we got to the door, and then he said, "Give my girl the half-sovereign back."

JEREMIAH HENESST (Policeman, R 192). I was called to Mr. Lucas's, and found the prisoners there, disputing about a half-sovereign—I saw Sheen take up the change, 9s. 9d.—Clarke said, "What the b—y h—i do you think we stole it; what me and my sister had to work hard for all the, week"—from there I saw the two prisoners go into the George and Dragon with another woman, and afterwards to the Coach and Horses, and the Duke of York; they then all went into the Banshee beer-shop—I was afterwards called to the Fisherman's Arms, where I received the prisoners in charge from Mr. Bottrell for attempting to steal a shilling.

Cross-examined. Q. What became of the other female? A. She was taken into custody, but was discharged.

SHEEN— GUILTY .— Confined One Month.

CLARKE— GUILTY .*— Confined Six Months.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-747
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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747. ELLEN MURPHY (30), PLEADED GUILTY to stealing 5lbs. of bacon, the goods of William Benjamin Blackmoare.— Confined Twelve Months.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-748
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

748. ELIZA CALBREATH (18), PLEADED GUILTY to stealing, on 25th April, 2s., the money of Thomas Langley.— Confined Twelve Months.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-749
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment > other institution

Related Material

749. HENRY FLOWERS(15), PLEADED GUILTY to embezzling 1s. on 19th April; 4s. on 20th and 10 1/2 d. on 25th April, the moneys of Thomas Clark, his master.— Confined Fourteen Days, and to be detained in Red Hill Reformatory, for three Years.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-750
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

750. JOHN THOMAS (36), PLEADED GUILTY to stealing 4 lbs. 6ozs. of cocoa, value 2s. 6d., the property of Her Majesty.— Confined Six Months.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-751
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

751. CHARLES WILLIAM SMITH (59), PLEADED GUILTY to forging and uttering a promissory note, for 5l., with intent to defraud.— Confined Twelve Months.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, ESQ.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-752
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

752. ELIZA MATTINGLEY (32), PLEADED GUILTY to stealing 2 dresses, 1 umbrella, and other articles, value 30s., the property of Thomas Pacey Birts, her master.— Confined Four Months .


Before Mr. Justice Williams.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-753
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

Related Material

753. HENRY HARRIS (26) , Feloniously carnally knowing and abusing Mercy Rebecca Proudfoot, a girl under 10 years of age.

MR. SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution, and MR. LILLET the Defence.GUILTY of the attempt .— Confined Eighteen Months .

Before Mr. Recorder.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-754
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

754. JOSEPH HARYEY (23) PLEADED GUILTY to stealing 60 pairs of ear-rings, and other articles, in a dwelling-house; also, to stealing sheets, and other articles, of Martha Adams, in her dwelling-house also, to stealing 1 breast—pin, ear-rings, and other articles, value 150l. of William Collins, in his dwelling-house; also, to stealing and receiving 100 yards of 3 coats, and 3 waistcoats.— Confined Eighteen Months.

Before Mr. Recorder.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-755
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

755. JOHN CROCKETT (24) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MBSSBS. POLAND and ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution, MR. BRST defended.

ANNIE PRICK . I live with my father, John Price, who keeps the Wellington Arms, Waterloo-road—on 25th April, between 4 and 5, the prisoner came with four women and asked for a pot of ale—he paid with a half-crown—I looked at it and told him it was bad—he said, "I will give you another," and he gave me half a crown, which I saw was likewise bad—I then sent for a constable—one of the women then snatched the money out of the prisoner's left hand, and they all four ran away—the prisoner bad been drinking slightly.

Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. He was drunk was he not? A. I should not say he was drunk—he was leaning on the counter—he did not say anything.

MR. ORRIDGE. Q. To whom did you give the shilling and half-crown? A. To the constable.

JOHN COLLINS (Policeman, K 184). I was sent for to the Wellington Arms, and prisoner was given into custody—the last witness gave me a shilling and half-crown (produced)—I found this bad florin in prisoner's left hand—at the station I searched him, and found half a crown and three shillings good money in his trousers pocket—I told him the half-crown was a bad one; he made no reply—he had the appearance of having been drinking—he knew what he was about.

Cross-examined. Q. Did he give his correct name and address? A. Yes.

WILLUM WEBSTIR . The coins produced are counterfeit.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

11th May 1863
Reference Numbert18630511-756
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

756. EMMA CLARK (25), was indicted for a like offence. MESSRS. POLAND and ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution.

ELIZA ARNOLD . I am a clerk in the telegraph office, 68, London-road—on 24th April, the prisoner came to my office at about 11 in the morning, with a message to be forwarded, but it was retained for non-delivery—the person to whom it was directed was not found—she paid half a crown, the message was 6d.—I gave her the 2s. and put the half-crown in the till—she came again about half-past 2 on the same day, and then gave me a message to send—I did not forward that—she paid with a half a crown—I sent it to be changed next door by McDonald—he brought it back and I then told the prisoner it was bad—she said she should not think of passing a bad one—I examined the till while she was there, and found three more bad half-crowns—I bad other silver in the till, but the bad half-crowns were all lying at the top—I cannot tell exactly at what time I received those without looking at the messages—there was one at 1.25, another at 1.35, and the prisoner came first about 11—those were not the only messages I took