Old Bailey Proceedings.
21st October 1861
Reference Number: t18611021

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Old Bailey Proceedings front matter.
21st October 1861
Reference Numberf18611021

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Sessions Paper.








Short-hand Writers to the Court








Law Publishers to the Queen's Most Excellent Majesty.




On the Queen's Commission of.



The City of London,





Held on Monday; October 21st 1861, and following days.

BEFORE the Right Hon. WILLIAM CUBIT , Lord Mayor of the City of London; Sir Frederick Pollock, Knt., Lord Chief Baron of Her Majesty's Court of Exchequer; Sir Samuel Martin, Knt., and Sir James Plaisted Wilde, Knt., two others of the Barons of Her Majesty's said Court of Exchequer; Sir John Musgrove, Bart; Thomas Challis, Esq.; Thomas Sidney, Esq.; David Salomons, Esq. M.P.; and Sir Robert Walter Carden, Knt.; Aldermen of the said City; Russell Gnrney, Esq., Q.C. Recorder of the said City; Sir Henry Muggeridge, Knt.; William Lawrence, Esq.; Benjamin Samuel Phillips, Esq.; and Edward Conder, Esq.; Aldermen of the said City; Thomas Chambers, Esq., Q.C. Common Serjeant of the said City; and Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq. Judge of the Sheriffs' Court; Her Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer and General Gaol Delivery of Newgate, holden for the said City, and Judges of the Central Criminal Court.









A star (*) denote that prisoners have been previously in custody.—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody.—an obelisk (†) that are known to be the associates of bad characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoner's age.


OLD COURT—Monday, October. 21st, 1861.


Before Mr. Recorder.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-832
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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832. WILLIAM SMITH, alias. DALTON (61), was indicted for stealing, on 21st July, 1 bag, 1 coat, 5 shirts and other articles, the property of Richard Thompson; also, or stealing, on 28th August, 1 portmanteau, 12 shirts, and other articles, the property of Robert Neale; also, or stealing on 16th September, 1 bag, 2 coats, 2 pairs of trousers, 1 waistcoat, and 2 brushes, the property of William Bunce, in a vessel upon a navigable river; to all of which he

PLEADED GUILTY He received a good character.— Confined Eighteen Month.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-833
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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833. HENRY THRIFT (30) , Stealing 1 gelding, value 15l., the property of John Manley Birch and another, his masters. Second Count. receiving the same.

JOHN MANLEY BIRCH . I am an omnibus-proprietor, of 74, Horseferry-road—the prisoner has been in my service, as a stableman, for the last four months—on the morning of 1st October I missed a bay gelding, and at the same time I missed the prisoner: he was missing from his work the previous afternoon—he had not given any notice of leaving—he bad no authority whatever to take away any of my horses—I saw the horse again, the same evening, at Winkley's, the horse-slaughterer's.

THOMAS WINKLE . I am a licensed horse-slaughterer, of Green-street, Friar-street, Blackfriars—on 30th September, about a quarter to 8 in the evening, the prisoner brought me a brown gelding—he knocked at the gate and said, "I have brought you a horse"—I said,—What do you want for it?"—he said, "2l."—I said, "We have a great many of them, I cannot buy it for that"—he said, "What can you give for it?"—I said, "30s." he said, "Open the gate, and let me bring him in"—I opened the gate and he came in—I called my horsekeeper and said to him, in the prisoner's presence, "John, take this man down to Mr. Harris, and lot him inspect the

horse"—the prisoner went with my man to Mr. Harris, and came back with Mr. Harris and my man—Mr. Harris said, "Mr. Winkley, do you know this man?"—I said, "No; he is quite a stranger to me"—I said, "Where do you bring this horse from?"—he said, "From Notting-hill"—I said, "I do not do any business there; what name?"—he said, "The name of Brown"—I said, "I don't know such a name"—Mr. Harris then said, "You must go with me to Notting-hill," and he and the prisoner went away together—Mr. Birch came next morning and owned the horse—it was worth 12l. or 15l.—it was not in a state to be slaughtered; it was about six years old—I asked the prisoner, "For what reason are you going to have this horse killed?"—he said, "Oh, she breaks all the harness a man can make"—I don't think he was sober, he was a little elevated, but seemed quite to know what he was about.

Prisoner. I asked him 3l. and he offered me 30s. Witness. That is not so.

WILLIAM HARRI . I am inspector of horse-slaughterers of St George's parish—the prisoner came to me with Winkley's man—I asked the prisoner the reason he wanted the horse killed, as I saw it was a good-looking horse and not fit to be killed—he said it was on account of the horse jibbing.—I went back with him to Mr. Winkley, to know if he knew him or his master—he said, no—I asked the prisoner where his master lived—he said at Notting-hill—I said I must take him there and see if it was true—I had my horse put to, and drove him there—I found that his story was false; no such person as Brown lived there—he would have got away from me, but I called a policeman and gave him in charge.

JOSHUA TUCKFIELD . (Policeman, T. 130). The prisoner was given into my custody by Mr. Harris—he told me the horse was his own—he afterwards told me it belonged to Mr. Brown, a cab-proprietor, of Pembridge-mews—I went there and made inquiry.

Prisoner's Defence. I was drinking all day, Sunday and Monday, and about 7 or 8 o'clock on Monday evening I met a man with the home at the foot of Westminster Bridge; he stopped me and asked if I was a stableman; I said, Yes; and he said he would pay me and give me something to drink, if I would take the horse to Winkley's; he said, "If they ask you any questions, say it is your own, and if they ask you who I am, I live at Pembridge-mews; get 3l., if you can, and if not, take 30s." never took the horse at all. I was never in trouble before.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-834
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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834. THOMAS WILLIAMS (19) , Stealing, on 27th September, I rug, the property of James Bernard Dew and another.

MR. F. H. LEWIS. conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES RUSSELL . I am a private watchman, employed by the inhabitants of Gutter-lane—on the evening of 27th September, about half-past 7, I saw some persons running down Gutter-lane—the prisoner was one of them—I also saw two police-constables—the prisoner had this scarf (produced,) off his shoulder when he ran past me, loose, with a ticket behind it—I afterwards picked it up—I did not see it dropped—I picked it up in the track along which the prisoner had been running.

Prisoner. Q. There was a lot more boys running besides me? A. There was, but you were the first.

JOHN HENDERSON . (City-policeman. 472). On the evening of 27th September I heard a cry of "Stop thief!" but previous to that I followed the

prisoner—he had, what I supposed to be, a bundle at the time with a large card attached to it, dangling over his shoulder—when there was a cry of "Stop thief!" the prisoner was running as fast as he possibly could, with two other lads, bigger than himself, running behind him—the prisoner had, at that time, the bundle on his shoulder—it was a bundle similar to the one produced, with a ticket like that upon it—I pursued him down Gutter-lane, through Goldsmith-street and Mitre-court into Honey-lane Market, where I caught him—I asked him where the parcel was that he bad when he came down Gutter-lane—he said, "I had no parcel"—I said, "You had, but you dropped it, you must come along with me and I dare say I shall find it."

Prisoner. Q. Did you see me take anything? A. No—a gentleman who gave me some information came to the station-house, but did not appear the following day—I never lost sight of you.

WALTER BETTS . (City-policeman. 461). I was with Henderson on this evening—I heard a cry of "Stop thief!"—I endeavoured to pursue the prisoner, but at the corner of Goldsmith-street I was stopped by two young men who commenced fighting—I fought my way through them—the prisoner was running about three yards in advance—I believe the two men who stopped me had been running with the prisoner—I saw him with a bundle and a ticket on it, hanging over his shoulder.

HENRY WHIT . I am shopman to Messrs. Dew and Weatherley, 146, Cheapside, drapers and hosiers—this is their property—I last saw it safe within a few minutes of its being lost—it stood inside the doorway, on a pile—it had a large card pinned upon it.

Prisoner's Defence. I never took the rug, and was never near the shop. I was running through Honey-lane Market, when somebody halloed out, "Stop thief!" and the policeman laid hold of me.

GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-835
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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835. THOMAS JONES (32) , Stealing a handkerchief, of a man unknown, from his person.

THOMAS HUBBLE . I am one of the City police—on the evening of 29th September I was on duty in King William-street—I saw the prisoner there, and saw him attempt to pick several gentlemen's pockets—I saw him take hold of one gentleman and abstract a handkerchief from his pocket—he then turned back and ran away—I pursued and caught him—I found this handkerchief upon him—I said to him, "You have some more about you"—he said, "I have not"—I took him to the station, and there found these four other silk handkerchiefs concealed under his dress—the gentleman went away.

Prisoner. I was walking along with two of these handkerchiefs in my hand, and the policeman came up and asked how many I had, and I said, "Five." He said, "Give them to me." I would not, and he put his hand in my pocket and took out this handkerchief, which he says he saw me take from a gentleman's pocket. I bought the handkerchiefs, and have had them four weeks. Witness. One of these handkerchiefs was under his guernsey, and the others in different places—I had watched him for about an hour previously, and saw him try several gentlemen's pockets—there was another in his company.

GUILTY .*†— Confined Twelve Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-836
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > unknown

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836. HENRY WILLIAM (20) , Embezzling and stealing the several sums of 15s., 15s., and 16s. 8d. of Thomas Morley Wood, his master; and WILLIAM BEATTIE (18), for aiding and assisting the said Henry Williams to commit the said offence, and for harbouring him after its commission;

to which WILLIAMS— PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Four Months.

MR. COOPER. for the Prosecution, offered no evidence against Beattie.


21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-837
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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837. RICHARD MORGAN LOADER (32), Feloniously marrying Emily Burgess, his wife, Eloise Theresa Van Mirch, being then alive; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-838
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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838. SAMUEL MORRIS (18) , Stealing 36 pairs of boots, value 12l., the property of Joseph Franklin, his master; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-839
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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839. GEORGE THORNTON (30) , Stealing 37lbs. weight of cheese, value 1l. 8s., the property of William Blomfield; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-840
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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840. WILLIAM ROBERT (33) , Stealing a pewter pot, value 1s. 4d. the property of James Carman, having been previously convicted; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .**— Confined Twelve Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-841
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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841. WILLIAM SMITH (20), Stealing a watch, value 15l., the property of Frederick Sharman, from his person.

MR. COOPER. conducted the Prosecution.

FREDERICK SHARMAN . I reside at 22, West-square, Southwark, and am an accountant—on 7th October I got on one of the Citizen, steam-boast, in the afternoon, a little before 5—I was going to London-bridge—when the boat stopped at Blackfriars pier it was very much crowded—I was standing opposite the gangway—I felt some one press against me, and heard a dick, a peculiar noise, which called my attention to my watch chain—I saw my chain hanging down without the watch, and at the same instant I saw the watch in the prisoner's hand—I am quite sure he is the man—he was close to me and no one else—I attempted to seize the watch, and he dropped it on the deck—it was picked up by a young man and given to me—the value of it is 15l. at least—I seized the prisoner immediately, and held him—I never let go of him—with the assistance of one of the pier men I took him ashore and gave him into custody in Bridge-street—I looked at the watch when I recovered it—the bow was broken off—the chain was perfect, and the swivel fastened—a small steel screw that holds it was snapped—this is my watch (produced,)

EDMUND MARTI . I saw the steam-boat come alongside the Blackfriars pier—I saw the prosecutor seize the prisoner, and on looking down on the deck of the steamer I saw the gold watch lying there—I helped to take the prisoner.

GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

NEW COURT—Monday, October. 21st, 1861.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-842
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

842. WILLIAM JOHNSON (28) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Julius Simon, and stealing 180 uppers, and 258 leather soles, value 14l. 14s., his property; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .†— Confined Twelve Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-843
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

843. THOMAS DIXON (24) , Stealing 5s. of Sophia Gale, from her person; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-844
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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844. THOMAS FARRANT (17) , Stealing 1 pair of trousers, and 1 coat, the property of Charles Buss, his master.

PLEADED GUILTY.— Judgment respited.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-845
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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845. CHARLES SAXON (27) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Henry Bradley, and stealing therein 20 pairs of stays, his property; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-846
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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846. GERARD POLDE (40) , Unlawfully obtaining 56 yards of long cloth, and 104 yards of sheeting, the property of David Reynolds Davies, and another, by false pretences; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .—Recommended to mercy by the prosecutor.— Confined Six Months.

OLD COURT—Tuesday, October. 22d, 1861.


Before Mr. Recorder.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-847
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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847. ALFRED SIMPSON (37) , Stealing 90 printed books of John Cassell and others, his masters.

MR. TINDAL ATKINSON . conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES HENRY PUTTOCK . I am in the employ of Messrs. Cassell, Petter, and Galpin, printers, of Ludgate-hill—in September last, the prisoner was in their employment—he had been in the employ, to my knowledge, nearly three years—his duty was to do packing occasionally, and occasionally billsticking—we publish our magazines and periodicals on the last day but one of the month—with a few exceptions, we do not send out parcels in London—the morning of 28th September last, was our publishing day—I met the prisoner that morning a few minutes before 9, at the entrance into Belle Savage-yard—he had a parcel on his shoulder—it was not a very large one, he could easily carry it on his shoulder—it was covered with brown paper—it was like this (produced,—I did not stophim then—when he returned to the country department of the publishing office, I asked him what the parcel was that I had met him with—he said that it contained washing—I said it was rather a curious way to do up washing—he said, "Yes;" it certainly was washing"I said, "To whom did you give it?" he said, "To my daughter"—I then sent a man to his house over Blackfriars-bridge—I do not think he heard the directions that I gave the man—after the man had retained, I sent for the prisoner to my room, and said to him, "I find this tale of yours about the washing is not correct, therefore I fear there is something wrong"—he seemed very much confused for a few moments, and he then said, "Well, suppose I plead guilty"—I said, "Well, I cannot say if

you plead guilty, but I believe if you make a clean breast of it, it will be better for you in the end"—he then made a statement to me—(The Recorder was of opinion that any statement made by the prisoner after this was not admissible.—he had no authority to take a parcel of that kind from the premises, as a rule—when parcels go out we usually put printed labels on them—it is the duty of the servants to do so—they are furnished with them for the purpose—I could not swear to the prisoner's hand-writing, only as to my belief—I am not able to form any belief as to this writing on the panel—it is larger than his band-writing that has come before me.

Cross-examined by. MR. DICKI Q. I suppose you cannot state that parcels never go out of your place without the printed labels? A. I could not say that—I have been in the establishment only three years—I am told the prisoner has been there nearly four years—I always knew him as a respectable man.

COURT Q. You say he had no authority, as a rule, to take out such a parcel; what do you mean by that? A. It would be under special circumstances if he was taking a parcel out to deliver in London—now and then he has done so, properly; he might do so in the course of his duty—there was no label upon this parcel—no parcel ought to be sent out without a printed label—I have never known it done.

RICHARD LOTHIA . I am in the employment of Messrs. Cassell, Galpin, and Petter—I know the prisoner, and know his hand-writing—the direction on this parcel is his writing—it is "Mr. Pierce, newsagent, Kennington-road"—we had no order that day to send any parcel there—the parcel contains parts of the Illustrated Family Bible, Natural History, History of England, and Lady's Treasury, all for the month of October, and all published on the 28th September—the publications are ready for London delivery generally at 12 o'clock in the morning, but on that day being Saturday, we published at 11, Saturday being a short day—it is our custom to deliver the London publications at the ounter—Kennington-road is considered part of London—I know of no order or authority having been given to the prisoner to deliver such a parcel as that to Pierce, or anybody else in the London delivery—if there had been any special exception to our general practice, it would have come to my knowledge.

Cross-examined. Q. How many persons come to purchase these works? A. I cannot say; there may be hundreds sometimes—I do not think we should have 400 in a day—it is possible to get our publications by anyone coming and stating that they belong to the trade; but if they are not known we ask for their card—I have frequently refused to sell them, in consequence of not having the card—we never sell to any but those in the trade, knowingly—we may be deceived sometimes—we do not deliver periodicals to the London trade—we supply Vickers and other persons, but we do not deliver to them—there is a class of intermediate men in the trade who divide the profits with other newsvendors.

MR. ATKINSON Q. But are any of these persons served before 11 o'clock? A. Not before our usual publication hour; and they then come to the counter in the usual way.

MR. DICKIE Q. Do not Vickers's and other persons get them the day before? A. Yes; for the purpose of sending off to Scotland and Ireland—there are three or four houses which have them the day before—Vickers, Farrington, and Ward and Lock.

GEORGE WILLIAM PETTER . I am one of the firm of Cassell, Galpin, and Petter—I saw the prisoner on Saturday, 28th September, in Mr. Puttock's

room—Mr. Puttock, Mr. Rankin, two police-constables, and myself were present—I said to him, "These," pointing to the olice-constables," are policeofficers; you are not obliged to reply to my question but if you do, tell the truth; how long has this been going on?"—(The Recorder was of opinion that as this conversation took place after the statement made to the prisoner by Mr. Puttock, it was not admissible.—he had no authority whatever to take a parcel of this kind out of our premises—they are our publications, and would be published on that morning—we have from 300 to 400 persons in our employment—I never had an application from the prisoner to purchase books from us.

Cross-examined. Q. But he would not apply to you, would he? he would apply to some other parties in the establishment? A. I imagine he would be quite as likely to apply to me, as to any one else—he would not be more likely to go to some of the chiefs of the departments, because he would know they had no power to set aside the regular instructions issued by the firm—we issue all the regular instructions, which bind them—we had a suspicion for some time past that we were being robbed—I cannot state that I missed any particular publications, but we had a conviction that our property was being abstracted.

GEORGE LEGG . I am a detective officer—I took the prisoner into custody—I asked him who Robert was—he hesitated, and I said "Bob"—he said, "I don't know him by any other name, I know him in the trade"—I asked him where he lived—he said he did not know—I then said, "Where did you see him?"—he said, "I saw him on Ludgate-hill, and gave him twopence to carry the parcel to the omnibus in Farringdon-street.

JOHN SARGENT . I am the driver of an omnibus that goes from Camden-town to Kennington-gate—I remember having a parcel to deliver at Pierce's—this is it—I received it from some person and delivered it there on the morning of the 28th.

Cross-examined. Q. Was it given to you openly? A. Yes; there were no instructions about concealment—it was given to the conductor.

WILLIAM BROOKBANK . I am conductor of the omnibus—this parcel was given to me in Farringdon-street, by a man who very much resembles the prisoner.

Cross-examined. Q. Do I understand you to swear that it was the prisoner that gave it to you? A. No; I do not—I was not before the Magistrate.

JAMES HAN . (City-policeman. 360). I went to Pierce's, and obtained this parcel there—I took it to the station in the same state in which I found it.

Cross-examined. Q. There was no difficulty in getting this parcel? A. No; there was no concealment made about it.

HENRY PIERCE . I carry on business as a wholesale newsagent—I know the prisoner, I have seen him in the trade, I may say for ten or twelve years—I have seen him at the Times, office of a morning, and have bought things of him, for his brother—I know nothing about this parcel—my wife received it, I believe—I knew nothing of it till the detective came to my house—I was out from half-past 5 that morning—I did not expect a parcel from the prisoner—I do not know his hand-writing—I think I had another parcel from him on one occasion—he sent home some things that I bought of him at the Times, office.

Cross-examined. Q. Are there not a great number of middle men about London, who are constantly buying and selling? A. Certainly, the same as myself—there are various marts where periodicals are to be bought—I

have known the prisoner as a dealer—I supposed he jobbed about, and sold periodicals—I have seen him at the Telegraph office, and various other offices—I have known him about London, as a man connected with the newsvending trade, I should say for nearly twelve years—I always understood that he was a respectable man.

MR. ATKINSON Q. Have you ever bought articles before the publishing hour, before 11 in the morning? A. Certainly not.

MR. DICKIE Q. Is it not of consequence to get a parcel of these publications early in the day? A. Yes; every thing is done to time as nearly as possible—if I wanted these publications I should send for them directly the other business was over, and I had anybody to spare.

MR. ATKINSON Q. You mean if they were published at 11, you would send as soon after 11 as you could? A. Yes; I did not know till last month that the prisoner was in Messrs. Casaell's employment—I did not even know his name until the last two months—I only knew him by sight.

MR. DICKIE Q. Did you always find him honest in his dealing? A. Yes; I have bought different things of him, about twice I think—he had the general reputation of being an honest man, as far as I know.

ANN PIERC . I received a parcel on the morning in question—I believe this to be it, but I did not look at it enough to say—it was the parcel which the policeman took away.

Cross-examined. Q. Was there any concealment about it? A. Not is the least.

RICHARD LOTHIA . (re-examined.) I have frequently seen the prisoner write in the office in the course of the three years he was there.

The prisoner received a good character.

GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-848
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

848. JOHN STEPHENSON (18) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of Henry William Deane, on the night of 23d September, at St. Marylebone, and stealing therein 2 towels, 1 pillow case, 1 desk, 2 spoons, 2 tray-cloths, 3 napkins, 2 miniatures and settings, 1 vase lid, 1 duster, and 1 table-cloth, his property; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .—(See next case.— Confined Twelve Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-849
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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849. WILLIAM RIXEY (30), Feloniously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Robert Winter Thompson, and stealing therein 23 brooches, value 4l. 10s., 16 lockets, value 2l. 5s., and 1 gown, value 5s., his property.

MR. RIBTON. conducted the Prosecution.

ROBERT WINTER THOMPSON . I am a photographer, residing at 297, Qxford-street—in September I had in my possession twenty-three brooches and sixteen lockets—I last saw them on Friday morning, 20th September, about 12 o'clock—the prisoner was in my employ about three months—I do not know that he would know the premises—he was at one of my branch establishments—I went to 297, Oxford-street on Saturday morning, and found that the outer-door had been forced—there were marks of a chisel or screw-driver where it had sprung the door-post away, and the bolt was shot—I went upstairs to the first-floor room and that was the same, and there were marks of a chisel—that is the room where the case was, containing the things—my house is in the parish of St. George, Hanover-square.

CHARLOTTE WINTER THOMPSON . I am the mother of the last witness—on 20th September, about half-past 7, I passed my son's shop in Oxford-street—that was the first time I had been there—the street-door was broken

open and the door up stairs—the whole of the brooches and lockets were taken away—I did not see them before—I am not in that establishment, my daughter is there.

ELIZABETH WINTER THOMPSON . On 20th September I had bee in my brother's shop in Oxford-street, the whole of the day, up to 7 o'clock—I was in the first-floor front-room and saw this jewellery in a glass-case—I left it safe—after that I returned to the house the same night about 11, and went upstairs—the jewellery was then gone—I can swear to this locket—it was safe when I left, and this one I can swear to—these I fully believe were there, but I cannot swear to them—there were some exactly resembling those.

ALFRED CARROLL . I live at 1, William-street, Manchester-square, and am is the employ of Messrs. Abraham—I know the prisoner—he lived in the same house with me—I saw him there on Saturday, 21st September—he produced a locket and asked me what I thought it was worth—I said, I did not know—he said, "Well, do you think it dear at 2s.?"—I said, "No"—he said, "You may hare it for 1s. 6d."—he owed me 1s. and I gave him 6d.—this is it.

EDWARD WHIT . (Policeman, D. 16). I apprehended the prisoner on 25th September, on another charge—I searched his boxes in his presence, and found this miniature box, this brooch, and these two lockets, which are identified by Miss Thompson—I have the top of a screw-driver here (produced,) which I found in a cupboard in the prisoner's room—he was not present then—I am sure it was his room—I compaied it with the marks on the otter-door in Oxford-street, and also the room-door, and it exactly fitted—the prisoner said that the jewellery was his, it was only plated.

Prisoner. That instrument was broken previous to the robbery. Witness. I have found the other part of it—this is it (produced,)

ROBERT THOMPSO . (re-called.) This locket is my property—it was safe on that morning—I am not quite clear as to this one—this brooch-box I will swear to, but it was not broken at that time—this other locket is the same sort that I had, but I cannot swear positively to it—I swear to this locket by the glass—it is not a proper brooch-glass—it is one that has been put in, in a particular way.

Prisoner's Defence. I am brought up here on two very serious charges, which charges I am truly innocent of; Stephenson, who has pleaded guilty to the other affair in Cavendish-square, will state that I am entirely innocent of both these transactions; he had given the locket to a woman who I cohabit with to pay for washing, &c.; I gave the officers full opportunity of searching the place, although they had no warrant; the inspector found Part of a jar there and said he believed it to be Mr. Deane's property; the woman said she had picked it up in the hall, and it turned out that Stephenson had put it behind the door in the passage, and she had picked it up and laid it on the lid of a box; it was not concealed in any way; I have witnesses to prove that I have been at work for twelve months, and the Party I am living with will prove it also; the officer has, I believe, upwards of twenty duplicates of things off the bed, and I do not think there can be any reason to believe I have been engaged in burglaries; the woman showed the lockets to me and I said, "I will sell them;" and she gave them to me; I went out with Carroll, and as I owed him a 1s. I said, "I have not got it now but I have a locket here if you will give me eighteen-pence for it;" he gave me 6d.

COURT. to. EDWARD WHIT Q. Did Stephenson lodge in the same house?

A. Yes; in the room above—there was nothing said about a search warrant.

The prisoner called.

MARY RIXEY . I was at the house when the constable took the things—they were brought to me by Stephenson on the Friday evening; he gave them to me for work that I had been doing for him—I do not recollect the date; it was the Friday before the policeman came—I had kept them from that time—I was living with the prisoner; not married to him—I showed the lockets to him on the Saturday, and he asked me to allow him to sell one—he took it out with him, and when he returned he told me he had sold it to Mr. Carroll—I remember there being a piece of a screwdriver in the cupboard—it had been there somewhere about a week; I cannot say exactly to a day—I saw it broken—I believe it was broken by Rixey himself in drawing some nails from a piece of board—the prisoner and Stephenson afterwards ground it down—I believe this is the one from which it was broken—I don't know exactly the day it was done on.

Cross-examined by. MR. RIBTON Q. How long have you been living with the prisoner? A. Six months—I saw him first at Woking—I was charged with the other charge which has been alluded to—the prosecutor in that case is a Mr. Deane—I had been in his service nearly three mouths—these lockets were all given to me by Stephenson during the evening of Friday, it might be about 8 o'clock; I should not like to say exactly—he said, "Would you like to have these?"—to which I replied, "They look very nice, I should," and I took them—I did not ask him where he got them—Stephenson was in Mr. Thompson's employ when I first knew him—I cannot say how he got his living at this time; he used to tell me he got jobs when he went out—I made no inquiries of him whether these were valuable lockets—I put them in the box where they were found—the prisoner was not at home when Stevenson gave them to me—I am not aware that he had any other property with him—I do not know what the charge was against me; I never heard anything about it; all I know of it is there was the top of the bronze and the towels—they were brought to me by Stephenson; I said so—no questions were put to me—I did not say anything at all—I was not asked for a defence—the top of a bronze, a towel, and a piece that was identified for a pillow-case was found in my possession—no silver spoons were found in my room—the prisoner has been in Mr. Thompson's employment—since he left there he has been beating carpets and cleaning plate—I cannot say exactly how long it is since he left Mr. Thompson's; not so long as two or three months—I have not seen the landlady, Mrs. Partingdon, here this morning.

Prisoner. I want to call Stephenson.

JOHN STEPHENSON . (a prisoner.) I have admitted my guilt of the Cavendish-square robbery—I likewise admit I gave these things to Mrs. Rixey without your knowledge—I certainly did give her one or two, but I cannot say that these are them—I have not pleaded guilty to stealing all these lockets from Mr. Thompson; I know nothing about them—I have given Mrs. Rixey two or three lockets and a brooch—I cannot say when—I was looking over my box and she asked me for them; two of them were my mother's—one was something similar to this—I had had them I dare say about eighteen months; one was a great deal worn, something like this one, an old one—I cannot swear this was the brooch; it was something similar—she asked me for them, and she had been sewing on buttons and cleaning my shirts—I should think this was three or four weeks before I was taken into custody; soon after I went to lodge there—I took the screw-driver to

have it ground; it belonged to the landlady of the house, and she requested it to be given to her—a piece was broken off by the prisoner in breaking a board—I believe this is the piece—I took it to be ground—I cannot say when that was—I was taken into custody on the Saturday, the 27th—it was the beginning of that week that it was broken—I gave the woman two lockets.

MR. RIBTON Q. Do you know a person of the name of Carroll? A. Yes—I told him that the prisoner had seen me at the House of Detention—the prisoner told me to plead guilty and that I should only get three months, and if he was convicted he would get twenty years—I cannot say whether I told Carroll that.


He was further charged with having been before convicted.

EDWARD BROW . (Policeman.) I produce a certificate (Read: "Middlesex, September. 11th, William Smith, larceny and a former conviction—Four Years' Penal Servitude".—the prisoner is the person—I had him in custody and was present at the trial.

GUILTY.**— Eight Years' Penal Servitude.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-850
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

850. THOMAS STEVENSON (18), and GEORGE JONES (17) , Stealing a handkerchief value 2s. 6d., the property of Benjamin John Nathan, from his person.

WILLIAM ROBINSON . (City-policeman. 656). About half-past 7, on Saturday evening, 5th October, I was in Bishopsgate-street, and saw both the prisoners there—I saw Jones follow four gentlemen and try their coat pockets between the Catherine Wheel and Union-street—they stood at the corner of Union-street for a few minutes—I saw the prosecutor pass round Union-street; they followed him and Jones took this handkerchief (produced. from his pocket behind and passed it to the other prisoner—I crossed over the road and took it from Stevenson's right hand, and took him into custody—I secured both; Jones bit the back of my hand and attempted to get away, but with the assistance of another officer I took them to the station.

Stevenson. Q. You said at the station-house that I took the handkerchief out of the gentleman's pocket? A. I did not.

Jones. The gentleman was in front and this man was in front of me; I could not take the handkerchief.Witness. The gentleman was in front and Stevenson was covering Jones while he did it; Jones made five attempts—I was in plain clothes at the time.

BENJAMIN JOHN NATHAN . I was walking along Bishopsgate-street on the evening of 5th October—last witness called out "Police, stop!"—I turned round to see what it was and he told me I had been robbed—I found my handkerchief had been taken—I saw the officer struggling with the two prisoners, and Jones turned round and kicked me several times on the leg while going to the station-house—Stevenson begged me to let him off, and said he was a poor locksmith out of work.

STEVENSON— GUILTY .†— Confined Twelve Months.

JONES— GUILTY .**— Confined Eighteen Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-851
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

851. JAMES HENRY DARLINGTON (18) , Stealing, on 7th October, 1 box, the property of Emma Scott.

MR. COOPER. conducted the Prosecution.

EMMA SCOTT . I am single and live at 10, Cross-lane, Tower-street—on

7th October, about half-past 9 o'clock, I took a cab from Stepney to cross-lane—I saw a box placed on the cab by the driver—all went safe and well till we arrived at the top of Mark-lane, when I heard somebody call oot, the cab stopped, and I discovered the box was gone—the value of it with its contents is about 4l.—this is it (produced,)

THOMAS HAYWAR . I am a porter of 40, Deverell-street, Dover-rod, Borough—I was at the corner of Mark-lane on 7th October, about twenty minutes past nine—I saw a cab coming towards me—a pony and cart was driving by it at the time—to the best of my belief five persons were in it; three men on the front seat, and two women behind—I saw it by the side of the cab, and saw the box go off the cab—it was taken off, I believe, by two of the parties in the cart—I cannot say which, because there were so many and it was done in such quick time—I saw the arms of people taking it, connected with the cart; whether the arms of one or two people I cannot say, but I think two—the trunk was taken from the cab into the cart—I am quite certain the prisoner was one of those in the cart—after the trunk was in it drove on as fast as it could go, towards Gracechurch-street—the cabman stopped the cab, and ran after the cart—I saw the prisoner brought to the station-house—I attended there.

Prisoner. He gives a different account altogether to what he did at the station. Witness. No; I never saw the prisoner get out of the cart; I did not see the cart stop—I did not run after it—there was one in the cart dressed like a sailor that drew my attention—I thought they were drunk, and there would be an accident; and while looking I saw the box go from the cab.

WILLIAM HENRY JAY . I am a cab-driver, and was driving this young lady that night—all went well till we came to the corner of Mark-hoe, when the pony and cart came alongside of the cab; and the driver shot his pony right across my horse's head, and then a gentleman, who it was I do not know, came and tapped me on the shoulder and said, "Cabman, you have lost something off your cab"—I turned round, and the box was gone—I jumped off the cab, and halloed after them, "Stop the cart!" and in about the middle of Fenchurch-street the cart stopped by driving into a Hansom cab—when I got up to the cart the policeman had hold of the prisoner—I saw the box there in the cart—there was no one else in the cart—they were all out when I came up—that is the box.

JAMES SANDY . I am a cab-driver of 23, South-crescent Mews—I was driving my cab on this night from Gracechuich-street into Fenchurch-street, and saw the prisoner driving a cart with four or five in it—I am sure it was the prisoner—he drove against my horse and cut his chest, and broke the shaft and harness—I heard the cry of "Stop thief!" and got down the persons who were in the cart all ran away—the prisoner was brought back.

THOMAS MARTIN . I am a potman at 23, Crutched Friars, City—I was at the corner of Mark-lane on the evening of 7th October—I saw the prisoner drive up in a little cart alongside the cab—he is the man that lifted box off the cab; I saw him do it—he got it off the cab himself, and the other one put it at the bottom of the cart, and he drew round by the cabman' shorse's head and slewed, is horse round on to the pavement—I said, "Cabman, you have lost something off your cab"—he looked and found it goone—I said it was in the cart, but they had whipped the pony up very quick, and got off at the rate of ten miles amn an hour—I stopped there till the cabman topped there till the cabman came back—I am quite sure the prisoner is the one that took the box—one of them that was driving had a billy-cock, at on.

Prisoner's Defence. It is the first time I was ever here. I have a good character. I was discharged from a ship, and was coming to London Bridge to try to get on one of the small steamers. I saw a crowd, and about twenty yards off a gentleman came and said, "I think you are the driver." I said I was not He said, "I shall give you in custody." It was an old gentleman, who was not before the Magistrate.

WILLIAM JONES . (City-policeman. 566). I apprehended the prisoner on a charge of furious driving in Gracechurch street, and then the cabman came up and said he had stolen a box off the cab—he did not give me any address.

Prisoner. Q. Did not a gentleman give me in your charge? A. A gentleman said, "Here he is; he ought to be tried for manslaughter"—he was driving about sixteen mites an hour when he passed me—I pursued him for the furious driving—I could not be certain whether the prisoner was driving at that time, he went by me so quickly—he was about ten yards from the cart when I took him.

GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-852
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

852. JAMES EASTON (19) , Stealing 33 spoons, value 8l. 10s. and other goods, of Thomas Nicholson, in the dwelling-house of Jane Brotherson; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-853
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

853. THOMAS NEWTON (15), Unlawfully obtaining by false pretences the turns of 18s. 8d., and 1l. 8s. 11d. from Henry Nicholson; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

NEW COURT—Tuesday, October. 22d, 1861.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-854
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

854. WILLIAM DAVIES (19) , Feloniously having in his possession 11 counterfeit shillings after a previous conviction of a like offence; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .**—(See next case.)

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-855
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment

Related Material

855. WILLIAM DAVIES was again, indicted with WILLIAM EDWARDS (20), and WILLIAM CLARK (26) , for unlawfully having in their possession 11 counterfeit shillings, with intent to utter them; to which

DAVIES— PLEADED GUILTY .**— Four Years' Penal Servitude.

EDWARDS and CLARK— PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-856
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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856. ANN MACKAY (34) , Unlawfully and knowingly uttering to Emily Elizabeth Jayels a counterfeit shilling, and on the same day a counterfeit shilling to Elizabeth Langridge.

She PLEADED GUILTY . to the Uttering to Langridge.— Confined Four Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-857
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

857. THOMAS MATTHEW (30), Was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. COOK. and, M. J. O'CONNEL. conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM OSBORN . I am a baker of 114, High-street, Poplar—on Saturday evening, 28th September, about half-past 8 o'clock, the prisoner came into my shop, asked for a half-quartern loaf, and tendered me a shilling—I gave him 6d. and 2 1/2 d. change—as soon as he was gone I found it was bad,

and went in search of him—I found him about ten doors off, entering Mr. Hogmire's, a butcher's shop—he bought a piece of meat—I was then in the middle of the road—he came out and joined another man, who was standing outside holding the loaf, while the prisoner went into the butcher's—the prisoner then placed the meat with the loaf in the handkerchief—the other man gave the prisoner something out of his waistcoat pocket—the prisoner then went to the corner of Robin Hood-lane, where I met a policeman and gave him in charge for passing bad money—he said, "I know nothing about it"—he was taken to the station—I went with him, and said to the inspector in his presence, "This is the man who passed one to me on the night of the 14th"—the prisoner then shammed deaf, and never answered—he was silent—I remember the prisoner being in my shop on the night of the 14th—he gave me a bad shilling for a half-quartern loaf—I kept the bad shilling in my waistcoat pocket, and gave them both to the policeman on the 28th—I marked them.

Cross-examined by. MR. POLAND Q. At what time was the shilling passed on the 14th? A. About a quarter past 10 at night—I was serving—I gave change for it, and put it in my pocket because I found it to be bad—it was in the till for a quarter of an hour—I put it there when I got the change—there was silver and copper there, but quite separate—I put it with the farthings—I went to the till a quarter of an hour afterwards, found a bad shilling, and put it in my waistcoat pocket till the 28th—I was not looking out for the person who gave me the bad shilling on Saturday night, bat I had a suspicion of the man when he came in.

COURT Q. Then how was it you took a bad shilling of him? A. Because after I had taken it and bade him good night, he never made me an answer.

MR. COOK Q. On the 14th when you took the shilling, did you place it in the till? A. Yes; close to the partition, and I afterwards took it from the same spot—I had not been to the till to put any other money in afterwards.

SIMON RALPH . (Policeman, k. 224). The prisoner was given into my change—I told him he would have to come to the station with me, as the complainant gave him in custody for passing bad money his shop—he said, "I have been to no shop"—I secured both his hands, as he wanted to get them to his pockets—I searched him, and found a bad shilling in his right trousers' pocket, also a purse containing 17s. 6d. in good money—I also produce two bad shillings which I got from Mr. Osborne.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These coins are all bad.

GUILTY .*— Confined Eighteen Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-858
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

858. ELIZABETH ROBERTSON (38) , Unlawfully having in her possession 19 counterfeit shillings, with intent to utter them.

MESSRS COOK. and, M. J. O'CONNEL. conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES BRENNAN . (Police-inspector, G.) I am employed by the Mint authorities—on 5th October, I was in the City-road with Sergeant Elliott, and saw the prisoner and another female going towards the Eagle tavern in the direction of Finsbury-square—they looked about them, and looked back and I thought from their manner that they observed me—they separated at the corner of Providence-street, and the prisoner went straight ahead—we followed her—I was within five paces of her when she looked back again, and then I saw her stoop her head towards her hand which went to her mouth—I seized her by the right arm, and Elliott by the left—this bag (produced,) was on her left arm—she appeared in the act of swallowing something—her right hand was closed—I said, "Mrs. Robertson, what

have you got?"—she said, "Nothing, Mr. Brennan"—I endeavoured to open her hand—she struggled violently—I said, "Let go;" and took this glove from her right hand, opened it in her presence, and it contained two paper pickets, one containing ten shillings, and the other eight shilling, separately wrapped up in paper as they now appear—I said, "Mrs. Robertson, I have received instructions from the solicitor to the Mint to endeavour to put a stop to your extensive dealings in counterfeit coin"—she said, "I expected this, Mr. Brennan; I must have expected it; my husband behaved very badly to me: he turned me out, and picked up with another woman, who is now awaiting her trial for the same thing"—I opened the bag, and found a counterfeit shilling separately wrapped up in paper—she said, "That I picked up," meaning the glove, "I hope you will make it as light for me as you can"—she was searched at the station, but only a little purse and a farthing were found on her—she refused to give her address.

Prisoner. I never was by the Eagle tavern. Witness. Then you do not appear here now—you must have been 400 yards from Wharf-road—you mentioned my name, and I had not been called by my name by any of the officers in your presence.

ARTHUR ELLIOT . (Policeman, G. 13). I was with Brennan, and followed the prisoner—he seized one of her arms, and I the other—I got the arm where the bag was—Brennan said, "What have you got, woman?"—she said, "Nothing, Mr. Brennan"—she looked back twice before we stopped her—I knew her by sight—I had seen her several times.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This is the way in which bad coins are usually wrapped up—the shilling found in the bag is of 1856, and is counterfeit—here are eighteen other shillings all counterfeit, one of which is from the same mould as that found in the bag—the others are from three or four different moulds.

Prisoner's Defence. My husband and I had tome words, and I left him about six weeks before, taking some furniture with me, and he said that before I was a week older, Mr. Brennan should have me. I suppose the woman in front of me dropped them. A gentleman spoke to me, and I have put an advertisement in the paper to see if he will come forward; but I not heard from my friends whether he has done so.

GUILTY Confined Two Years.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-859
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

859. WILLIAM SMITH (30), was indicted for unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

The prisoner remaining silent when called upon to plead, the Jury, upon evidence of Mr. Gibson, the surgeon, of Newgate found that he remained mute of malice, upon which.

THE COURT. ordered a plea of. NOT GUILTY. to be entered for him.

MESSRS. COOK. and, M. J. O'CONNRL. conducted the Prosecution.

RUTH RICHE . I am the wife of John Riches, who keeps a public-house in Exmouth-street—on Saturday, 24th August, about 8 o'clock in the evening the prisoner came there—I served him with a glass of ale which was 1d.—he gave me a half-crown, and I gave him 2s. 5d. in change—I put the half-crown in the till—in about ten minutes he came again, and served him with another glass of ale—he gave me another bad half-crown, which I gave to my husband who was in the parlour; and I said in the prisoner's presence, "This is a bad half-crown, and he was in about ten minutes before and gave me one then, and I discovered it was bad soon after he was gone"—upon that, the prisoner said he thought it was a good one, referring

to the first one—I do not recollect anything else being said—my husband said, "Send for a policeman," and we did so—I gave the half-crowns to my husband, and ultimately to the constable.

JOHN RICHE . On Saturday night, 24th August, my wife gave me a counterfeit half-crown—I saw the prisoner in my bar—my wife charged him with uttering it, and also another—I took the other from the till, where there was no other half-crown—the prisoner acknowledged passing the first one, but said that he did not know it was bad—a policeman came, and the prisoner was given into his custody with the two half-crowns—I did not go to the police-court when he was before the Magistrate, and he was liberated.

HENRY GREATHURST . (Policeman, G. 200). The prisoner and then two bad half-crowns (produced,) were given into my custody in August—he was discharged after some few days' detention—he gave the name of William Smith when I took him.

ROSA BELL . I live with my mother, who keeps a grocer's shop in Somers-town—on Friday, 27th September, the prisoner came for two penny eggs—I served him—he paid a half-crown—I had to give him 2s. 4d. change—I gave him two shillings on the counter, and told him I had not sufficient coppers to give him—he picked up the two shillings and the eggs and ran out of the shop to fetch change—I took the half-crown in to my mother, and found it to be bad—my mother then went out of the shop, and afterwards came back with the prisoner.

LOUISA BELL . I am the mother of the last witness—I remember the prisoner being in my shop on that evening, and leaving the shop—my daughter gave me a half-crown—I saw that it was a bad one directly I got behind the counter—it looked very bad round the edge—I went after the prisoner, and found him going into the Tavistock Arms at the corner of our street—I told him it was a bad half-crown, and I gave it to the landlord to see, and the landlord said that it was so—I said, "You knew it was bad"—he said, "I did not know that it was," and said that he would come back—he said he had gone to the public-house to get change—he took up two shillings from the counter of the public-house, and went back with me to my house—he gave me the shilling, and a sixpence, and six pennyworth of halfpence, which was my money—I gave him back the half-crown, and took the two eggs from him—we looked for a constable—there was a great mob round the door—not being able to find a constable I let him go—soon afterwards I saw police-sergeant Warnes, and he showed me the half-crown which I previously saw the prisoner with.

WILLIAM WARNES . (Police-sergeant, S. 47). I was attracted to Mrs. Bell's neighbourhood by a crowd of people—in consequence of what I was to, I caught hold of the prisoner, and pushed him into a house that was by—he then threw down this half-crown (produced,—I saw some one pick it up—I ultimately showed it and the man to Mrs. Bell, and she recognised them both—the prisoner was able to go about then on his legs—he was at the police-court next day, and was committed—I found one penny on him.

COURT Q. Did he speak rationally when you took him in charge? A. Yes, like any other man.

MR. COOK Q. Do you remember anything that Was said? A. Nothing in particular, only he made avery able defence to the Magistrate at the time he was brought up—he talked for about ten minutes; and also on the first occasion.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These three half-crowns are bad.

GUILTY .*— Confined Nine Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-860
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

860. THOMAS ROOK (30), was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS COOK. and, M. J. O'CONNELL. conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM HENRY PEAT . I am assistant to Mr. Yard, a chemist, of 30, Lamb's Conduit-street—on 21st September the prisoner came there between 3 and 4 o'clock in the afternoon, and asked for two pennyworth of cooling ointment—I served him, and he gave me a shilling, which I suspected immediately to be bad—I gave him the ointment and change—I doubled the shilling up in his presence—I said, "I shall detain you till the police come, for passing bad coin here frequently"—he said he had never been in the shop before—a constable was sent for, and I gave him in charge with the shilling—at the station I marked the shilling—the prisoner had been at the shop twice before to my knowledge, about six weeks previously, and oiled for twopenny worth of cooling ointment on each occasion, and gave A billing each time—it was given to me the first time, and I put it in a tax, and kept it—I did not serve him the second time—I saw Mr. Yard serve him, and he gave Mr. Yard a bad shilling—after he was gone I said something to Mr. Yard, and he bent the shilling, and found it to be bad—he vent to the door, and the prisoner was gone—that shilling was put with the one I had previously received—they both remained in the same place till 21st September—I gave all three of them to the constable—when I said that the prisoner had been in the shop twice before, he said, "I have no other bad money about me; I have never been in the shop before "—he was told that he was given into custody for passing a bad shilling, and passing two on other occasions—that was said in the shop at the time.

GILES YARD . I carry on business as a chemist in Lamb's Conduit-street—I know the prisoner—I served him with a pennyworth of cooling ointment when he came there—he gave me a shilling, and I gave him 11d. Change—I spoke to Mr. Peat before be spoke to me—I then looked at the shilling, and found that it was bad—I then looked for the prisoner, but could not find him; he had left the street—my shop is about the middle of the street—there are two turnings near—I immediately put the shilling aside—I was not in the shop when he came the last time—I am positive he is the man.

COURT Q. Did you put the shilling into the till? A. I did immediately I received it, and immediately took it out again—I am sure the one I took out was the same that I had put in, because I did not put it in till after I had given him the change and he had gone out—I immediately saw that it was bad, and took it out again—I will swear that it was the same shilling that I produce.

EDWARD WILKINS . (Policeman, E. 65). I was sent for to Mr. Yard's shop on 21st September—the prisoner was given into custody for passing a bad shilling—Mr. Peat stated that he had been there several times previously, and he handed me two other bad shillings—the prisoner could hear that—he said, "I have never been in the shop before"—I produce three shillings—He gave me an address, 1, Grafton-crescent, Kentish-town—I went there, and he was not known there—he was searched, and 1d. was found on him.

Prisoner. Q. Did not you go there a second time, and find that I had lived there? A. That you had occasionally slept there.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These coins are bad.

Prisoner's Defence. Had the shilling given to me by Mrs. Robinson, and I did not know that it was bad.

GUILTY .*— Confined Six Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-861
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

861. JOHN WILLIAMS (17), was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. COOK. and, M. J. O'CONNELL. conducted the Protection.

HONORA KELLY . I am the wife of Thomas Kelly, a labourer, and keep a small shop at Chelsea—on 23d September, about 3 or 4 o'clock in the afternoon, the prisoner came in for a loaf—it came to 3 3/4 d.—he gave me a half-crown—I put it in a drawer, and gave him change—there was no other money there—he came again next morning for two skins of blacking, which came to 1d., and gave me a shilling—I gave him change, and laid the shilling on the top of the chest of drawers by itself—he went away—a few hours afterwards a man came in to whom I gave the shilling in change, and he returned it to me—it was in my sight all the while he had it—I took it the next day to buy some milk, and the man bent it with his teeth, and returned it—I then showed it to my husband—I also found that the halfcrown was bad, and informed the police—on the next Wednesday I met the prisoner in Grosvenor-road, and gave him into custody—I gave the policeman the money—my mother-in-law gave the other half-crown.

Prisoner. Q. Are you sure I am the man? A. Quite; you had some gossip with me, and asked me if I would buy some bloaters of you if you brought them, and the next day you said you had had an accident, and slipped over a cabbage leaf.

ALEXANDER HUDDY . (Police-Sergeant, B. 2). On 25th September, Mrs. Kelly gave the prisoner into my custody, and charged him with passing a bad half-crown and a shilling at her shop in Turk's-row—he said, "I do not know anything about her shop; I do not know where Turk's-row is"—I searched him, and found on him 1s. 6 1/2 d. in coppers—I received these two half-crowns and a shilling from Mrs. Kelly.

WILLIAM WEBSTE . These coins are all bad—the two half-crowns are from the same mould.

GUILTY .**— Confined Nine Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-862
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

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862. HENRY GORMAN (19), and JOHN EVAN (22), were indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. COOK. and, M. J. O'CONNELL. conducted the Prosecution.

JAMBS WILLIAM QUICK . I am a licensed victualler, of 144, Fenchuch-street—on 13th instant, about a quarter past 10 o'clock, the prisoners came to my house, and one of them asked for half a-quartern of gin—they both partook of it, and Gorman tendered a base florin—my brother took it, bent it, and gave it to me—I said to Gorman, "This is not the first time you have been here; I shall give you in charge"—they both denied it—I sent for a policeman, and gave them in custody with the coin—they had been there on Tuesday, the 8th, and one of them then called for half a-quartern of gin—Gorman tendered a base half-crown to me—I put the change on the counter, and I believe he picked it up—they both partook of the gin—I held the half-crown in my left hand, that I might not excite any suspicion in their minds, and gave them the change with the other hand—they left, and I rang the bell for my brother, who went out after them—he came back without seeing them—I wrapped the half-crown up in a piece of paper, and gave it up at the Mansion House—I believe the constable has it—I have not the least doubt of the prisoners—I knew them when they came in again, and told my brother so in French.

German. I was never in the house before in my life.

Evans. Q. If you knew the half-crown was bad, why did not you detail us at once? A. I had a doubt about your appearance, and preferred sending my brother after you.

JONATHAN CARRINGTON . (City-policeman. 524). On the night of the 13th I was called into Mr. Quick's house—Mr. Quick said, in the prisoners' presence, that they had been there on the previous Tuesday and tendered a bad half-crown, and had given a florin then—he gave them in charge with the florin—I received the half-crown at the Mansion House from Mr. Quick—the prisoners both said that they had never been in the house before—I searched them, and found three halfpence on Gorman, and 6s. in silver and 5d. in copper on Evans.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This half-crown and florin are bad.

(The prisoners' statements before the Magistrate were here read as follows—Gorman says. "I know nothing at all about the half-crown, and have not seen the prisoner Evans for two months; I met him on that night, and thought I knew him, and spoke to him, and we both walked together till we got to Fen-church-street; I asked him there if he would go in and get a drop to drink, and he said he would, and I called for half a-quartern of gin, and put down the two-shilling piece; and the man serving behind the bar said it was a bad one, and the witness said he bad seen us in the house before, and that we tendered a bad half-crown before. I know nothing of the half-crown, but I tendered the two-shilling piece, not knowing it was was a bad one. I've never been in the house before. I can swear to that." Evans says."I know nothing of it; and as for being in the house before, I never was."

Evans's Defence. I am a costermonger, and have got an honest living; I have been locked up for more than a week, and do not see why I should be locked up any longer, as I am innocent.

GORMAN— GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

EVANS— GUILTY .*— Confined Twelve Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-863
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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863. HENRY GIBBONS (25) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin, having other counterfeit coin in his possession.

MESSRS. COOK. and, M. J. O'CONNELL. conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLOTTE INGRAM . I am the wife of James Ingram, a general dealer, of 6, Old Boswell-court—on the night of 9th October the prisoner came for half an ounce of tobacco, and tendered a florin—I found it was bad, and told him so—he said, "Give it me back again"—I refused, and told him to go away—he would not, and I threatened to send for the police—my husband went for a policeman, and handed him over to him with the florin.

WILLIAM RICE . (Policeman, F. 75). I went to Mr. Ingram's, and the prisoner was given in my charge with this florin (produced,—I asked him if he had any more of that kind in his possession—he said, "If you want to know you had better search me"—I searched him, and in his trousers'pocket found this other bad florin (produced,) three small packages of tobacco, a small packet of tea, and a small packet of sugar.

Prisoner. There were only two packages of tobacco; one was a cigarette, and the end of it was burnt.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These florins are both had, and from the same mould.

Prisoner's Defence. The tobacco I got by playing at skittles, for I never drink, and I took that instead; I received the two florins in a betting transaction; one of them I knew to be bad, but the other I did not.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-864
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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864. WILLIAM BATCHELOR (31) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. COOK. and, M. J. O'CONNELL. conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY WALKER . I am the son of Samuel Walker, an ornamental painter, of 32, Sale-street, Bethnal-green—my mother keeps the shop—on 14th September, about half-past 10 or 11 o'clock, the prisoner came and asked for a quarter of an ounce of tobacco—he tendered a sixpence—I gave him the change and he went away—I tried it with my teeth, thought it was good, and put it in the till, where there was only copper—my mother came into the shop about a quarter of an hour afterwards, and I went to bed—she gave me a sixpence next morning, which I recognised as the one the prisoner had given me—on 2d October my mother called me into the shop, and I saw the prisoner there—I said, "Are not you the same man who passed the sixpence on me before?"—he said, "Why, I ain't, seen you before"—I said, "If you have not seen me before, I have seen you"—my mother showed me a sixpence, and said, "I have taken another sixpence like you took two or three Saturdays ago"—the prisoner said nothing to that—I went over to the beer-shop to my father, but he was not there, he I brought a constable back with me, and he was given in custody.

HANNAH WALKER . I am the mother of the last witness—I came home about a quarter past 11 on this night—my son was in the shop—he went to bed, and I afterwards found one sixpence in the till—there were two mil brown marks under the crown, which may have worn off by now—it in bad, and I put it away, thinking the person might come back again—no one but me served in the shop that night after my son went to bed—I took the sixpence out and was going to give change, but I found it out—on 2d October, about half-past 10 or 11 o'clock, the prisoner came fort a pennyworth of Dutch cheese—he gave me a bad sixpence—I said, "Have you got any more like this about you I"—he said, "I do not know what you mean"—I said, "It is a bad one"—he said, "I got change for a two shilling-piece in a public-house"—I said, "I cannot let you go till I fetch my husband"—I called my son, who said, "Mother, what is the matter?"—I said, "I have taken another sixpence like you took two or three Saturdays ago; go for your father"—he looked at the prisoner, who said, "Why, I have not seen you before"—my son said that he had seen him—the constable came and I gave the prisoner in charge, with the two sixpences.

CHARLES JAMES CHILD . (Policeman, H. 193). On 26 October I went to Mrs. Walker's whop, and she gave the prisoner in my charge, with these two sixpences (produced,—I asked him if he had any more of them upon him—he said, "No; I did not know I had got that; I took it in change at a public-house for a two shilling-piece"—I searched him and found on him a good shilling and two small packets of tobacco—I had seen him before, in company with two women.

Prisoner. It is false.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These two sixpences are counters, or medallets—on one side here is "Victoria, Queen of Great Britain," and on the a crown—they are made of hard metal silvered over—there in some difficulty in bending them.

COURT Q. Are they counterfeit sixpences? A. No doubt the intention was to pass them for sixpences—as far as size goes they are apparently intended to resemble and pass for sixpences—here is the Queen's head, but the legend is different, and the word "sixpence" is not here—we have had a great many of them.

(The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows. "I was not aware that the second sixpence was bad.")

GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

THIRD COURT—Tuesday, October. 22d, 1861.


Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-865
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

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865. CORNELIUS MURPHY (40), and MARY MURPHY (41) , Unlawfully and maliciously wounding Morris Murphy upon his head. Second Count, occasioning to him actual bodily harm.

MR. LAWRENCE. for the Prosecution offered no evidence.


21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-866
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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866. JOHN ROBINSON (49) Assaulting Elizabeth Brand, on 2d October, with intent, &c. Second Count, indecent assault.

MR. SLEIGH. conducted the Prosecution.

GUILTY. on Second Count,— Confined Twelve Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-867
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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867. WILLIAM NEAL KENDILLON (47) , Unlawfully taking 3l. the property of Edward Otto Stern, under pretence of aiding him to recover a certain dog which had been stolen.

MR. SLEIGH. conducted the Prosecution.

MR. COOPER. for the prisoner, submitted that this was not an indictable misdemeanour; the Act of Parliament combined misdemeanours which were indictable and misdemeanours which were not indictable, and directed that a first offence was to be punished by a fine by a Magistrate, and the second was to be an indictable misdemeanour and punished otherwise than by a fine. THE COURT considered that as there was no direction that the offence should be treated summarily, the ordinary common law process was not ousted.

RICHARD HUTCHINSON . I am housekeeper at Palace-chambers, St. James'-street—the prisoner called there on 6th September—Mr. Stern, the prosecutor, resides there—the prisoner said he had called respecting a dog which Mr. Stern had lost and had advertised for, offering a reward of 1l.—he said, "I think there is no means of getting the dog for that amount; I know where the dog is, and if Mr. Stern will say something like, I think I can recover the dog"—he said that the parties would not give it up for anything like the reward—I then asked him what he thought the dog could be recovered for; and he said, "I really do not know, but I should say something about 3l., but I will make inquiries"—I told him I would communicate with Mr. Stern, and then he would, no doubt, hear from Mr. Stern as to what he would be willing to give—the prisoner showed me a bill—he did not leave any card on that occasion—I communicated with Mr. Stern upon his return to town—the prisoner called again on 11th or 12th, I think—Mr. Stern had then left town again—he then said that he had seen the parties, and that they wanted 5l.—I said, "Mr. Stern had commissioned me to give 2l.;" and he said, "That will not do; I think if you were to say three I could get the dog"—I said, "Do you know where the dog is?"—he said, "Yes; the dog is in Shoreditch."

Cross-examined by. MR. COOPER Q. Had you known the prisoner before? A. No; I cannot say what time of day it was he first came—he made no secret of it—he gave me his card at once and I wrote to him, to the addresshe gave on it—I cannot say that I know he is known to the Duke of Beaufort and the people mentioned on that paper—the prisoner answeredmy letter—I did not go to his address, 7, Cambridge-terrace.

EDWARD OTTO STERN . I am a merchant in the City, and reside at

18, Palace-chambers, Pall-mall—the dog which has been produced here to-day is my property—I had it safe about 28th or 29th of August—she had been stolen four times before—I had occasion to go to Liverpool on the Wednesday, and upon returning I found the dog was not where it ought to have been—I put out bills, offering 1l. reward—I had some communication with Mr. Hutchinson, and on 24th September, about 9 o'clock in the morning, the housekeeper came up with the prisoner, and told me that Mr. Kendillon was there—I asked him to come in, and said to him, "Where is my dog?"—he said, "In Shoreditch"—I said, "Do you really want me to pay 3l. to recover my dog again? I really think a sovereign ought to do, this reward that I have offered, and which I am quite willing to give;" in fact, I authorised the housekeeper to give 2l. if the dog was brought back—he said he could not get the dog for less than 3l.—I then asked him to go down with me to Shoreditch where the dog was, as I wanted to find out about him myself; I would give him something for his trouble, and prosecute the man who had it—he said he could not go down with me to the place; he had no objection to go with the little page, a boy about fourteen or fifteen—if I would give him the 3l. he would bring me the dog back afterwards—I did not do anything more then—I told him I must consider this first; I did not know whether I could trust him with the 3l., and if he called at my office at 1 o'clock I should then decide—he came to my office at 1 o'clock—I then repeated to him that a sovereign, or two, ought to have been the sum which he should have taken and no more, and he again said he could not take less than 3l.—I then gave him the 3l. and asked him when he would bring back my dog—he said, "In an hour and a half, at half-past 2 I shall be here with the dog"—I would not have given him more than 1l. if I could have helped it—I saw the prisoner next within two minutes of half-past 2 at my office with the dog, which was tied to one of the desks—one of my clerks had received it—I then said to the prisoner he was either the thief himself or an accomplice; that he had had six months before, and he would not get rid of me so soon as that, and the quicker he walked out of my office the better—he was rather confused, and said, "I am not the party who stole the dog or an accomplice," and he gave me a paper with the name of the man who stole the dog, as he said, but I did not take any notice of it—he went out of my office and the next morning I went before the Magistrate, a warrant was granted, and the prisoner was taken into custody.

Cross-examined. Q. How often did this man show himself to you? A. Twice; he came first to my chambers and then twice to my office, the last time with the dog—I never went to his place—I gave 1l. before to get the dog back—she is worth about 5l.—it has cost me about 20l.—I gave two guineas for her at first, at a sale.

CHARLES BUTCHER . (Policeman, C. 137). I had a warrant upon which I arrested the prisoner—I said to him, "Bill, I want you"—he said, "What for?"—I said, "I hold a warrant to apprehend you for receiving 3l. from a gentleman, named Mr. Stern, for the recovery of a stolen dog"—he said, "Yes; I certainly did, I had the money"—when he was taken to the station-house, I found a parcel of documents on him.

Cross-examined. Q. Did he not say he was ready to give every assistance in his power to prosecute the men who had stolen the dog? A. He did afterwards—he used to call me "Butcher"—I have known him some time; he was once in the police force—he was a sergeant in the C division—he has also been inspector of the Surrey constabulary, and a constable at Hyde-park.

ROBERT WEEK . I am clerk to Mr. Stern—I was present when the 3l. was given to the prisoner—I saw it paid.

GUILTY .*—Fined. 1s. and Confined Eighteen Months.

OLD COURT—Wednesday, October. 23d, 1861.


Before Lord Chief Baron Pollock.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-868
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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868. VINCENT COLLUCCI (31), was indicted for unlawfully obtaining the sum of 1,900l. of Frederica Johnstone, by false pretences.

MR. MONTAGUE CHAMBER . with. MR. SERJEANT PARRY. and, MR. F. H. LEWIS, conducted the Prosecution.

FREDERICA JOHNSTON . I have known the prisoner since June or July, 1858—he was introduced to me by two of my cousins, who told me that he was following the profession of an artist—during the whole time I have known him he has been following that profession—in consequence of that introduction my sisters and myself invited him to our house—we were not residing at Twickenham, then but in London—he did not ask me for any money shortly after I became acquainted with him; I may strictly say it was alter his return from Italy; but previous to that, I think in the very commencement of February, 1859, I found him melancholy one day and asked the cause of it—he said that he had heard very bad accounts of his mother, to whom he was devotedly attached; that she was very aged and that he longed to see her, but was not able to do so—I asked him why he did not go immediately?—he did not answer at first, but afterwards said he could not afford it—I said could I be of any use to him; and he said it would be a great blessing to him if I could—I then asked him what would be required—I said that I had 50l. by me, but ho did not seem to think that would be sufficient and he then showed me some bill of Nosotti's, which I did not look at particularly, and he read at the bottom some threat, that if it was not paid immediately they would proceed against him, and he said, "This is the shameful way that a man treats me, of whom I have had everything since I have been in England, and he is a countryman of mine"—and I then said, "If you like to have that, you can do so;" or something of that kind—I believe he told me the amount, but I cannot positively remember it; it was something like 90l. or 95l.; and then as regards the sum total he wanted, I think it was either 190l. or 250l.; but certainly not more than 250l.—in consequence of what he stated about his mother and Nosotti, I advanced him somewhere about that sum—I said at first, "I will give you a cheque"—he seemed not to know what a cheque was—I described to him what it was, and he seemed as if he would rather have the money, and I gave him the money—I believe I had given him the 50l. first, and then I added the other—he had before that offered to paint my picture—he commenced a sort of sketch of it in 1859; that was after his return from Italy, but it had been all planned to a certain extent in 1858—I think it was about the middle of 1859 that he commenced the sketch—I became intimate with him, and there was at one time a contemplation of marriage between us—we from time to time wrote letters to each other—as regards his letters I have destroyed them—I destroyed

them at various times; the last that I destroyed were on the 2d of August this year—that was a certain number that I had by me from the time we came to town—in the spring of 1859, I was seized with illness; that was while I supposed him to be in Italy—I did not see him for a long time after that; I was too ill—I next saw him when he announced his return from Italy—that was about the 10th or 12th of May, 1859, and I think it was in the month of June that I communicated to him as to our marriage being broken off—he said he never thought it would have come to pass; but he expressed very great sorrow, and said that he was so ill that he had not the courage to tell me what he was contemplating, but he thought he was in consumption, and he thought he should end his days in a little village perhaps, in his own country.

Q. From time to time prior to the advance of the 2,000l. in question, how much money had you advanced to him? A. Having taken no regular account I can only state what I should suppose it was, and that is 2,000l. including the purchase of an oil painting for 300l. by Spanioghletti, and also including what he charged for our painting—I remember the picture going to the Exhibition of this year, 1861—it was not hung; it was put in the second list—I ascertained that fact from Mr. Elmore—I have always taken an interest in paintings and pictures, I have been brought up with it all my life, and take the greatest delight in it—the prisoner was perfectly aware of that fact; it was constantly the subject of conversation between us from the very first introduction—I think it was towards the end of May that I first spoke to him about the return of my letters—I told him that I did not wish to continue our intimacy any longer; but I believe on that day there was no mention made of anything peculiar; I do not remember the date exactly—he wrote me a letter, and that letter I kept, on 2d August, when I was destroying his letters; I kept two letters—the interview I had with him was in consequence of a letter—(a letter was here handed to the witness. I think there was one previous to this; this is one that I received from him; it is in Italian—I understand Italian very well.

FERDINAND STRAUSS . I understand the Italian language—I have translated this letter before (Reads. "Monday, 3d June, 1861.—Frederica, my life has become infernal, a moral martyrdom, a vengeance of God, it was so before, but now it has become more than ever insupportable. Alas! how tired I am of it. Yes; I am tired of it beyond measure; every day as it passes I feel more and more the weight of this existence, of my unhappy position, from the enormous accumulation of difficulties which surround me. I am by G—the most unhappy man on earth, and so much the more so am I, because by others I am supposed to be happy, envied—envied, wherefore, wherefore? for being on the brink of a precipice; being to-morrow, to-morrow, the laughing stock of society; with my pride, with my hanghtiness. I am in a chaos, my mind is in a deplorable state. I can work no more, nor act, nor think, nor do anything; in short, in this state I must be ruined; yes, ruined, and for ever. However, the one who is the cause of my sorrow, that one who despises my heart, shall not trample under foot my self esteem. I swear this before God, for the love of my mother Came and see me Frederica, if you can, on Wednesday next."

MISS JOHNSTONE. (continued.) I do not distinctly remember whether I called upon him or not, after receiving that letter, or whether I received another letter before I called on him—I certainly did call after this—I think it is very possible that I went upon the Wednesday mentioned in the letter—when I saw him after that letter, he was most violent in conversation

—I received this letter from him also (read.—"10th June. No, no, no; not a moment more of such a life, not a week; it is a hell to me; A vengeance of God; yes, you have ruined me physically and morally, Miss; you have destroyed everything in me, industry, peace, the heart; come, Miss Frederica, there are but three resolutions to take; choose—you will either marry me, or ensure me enough to live upon, or I shall leave England—you have three days for reflection")—I think I may put the two interviews I had with him into one—I think I had two, hut the subjects were almost identical—I have some difficulty in describing the conversation—I told him as regards the first proposition, it remained the same as it had done, and that as regarded the other two, I could not take upon myself the responsibility of advising—I am not giving the language I used—we spoke in French, therefore the words are not the same; what I said was that I could not take upon myself the responsibility of advising; upon which he immediately burst out, "Responsibility! responsibility!" and dared me to use such a word—I said, "I can say nothing more"—he proceeded with a great deal more, which made me give an answer something to this effect—"What do you mean by my having injured you?" what he did say was so detached, and so furious, and so broken, I really cannot state it—he was very violent—he said I had injured him, and that he would fight any one to the last who dared attack his honour—he pointed to some foils which were fastened against the wall, and said he would not be conquered, he would fight any one who dared attack his honour, and subjects of that kind; in short, the end of it was that he frightened me dreadfully, and I said to him, "If there is anything in which I have injured you, tell me what it is?" but he never came to the point of telling me, but kept on saying, "Very well, very well"—I said, "Is there anything I can do for you?" and he said something about money, but the subjects were all so broken up that it was really not like a regular conversation; I forget how it came to pass, but I said, "If there is anything I can do I will endeavour to do it, but I can decide upon nothing without thinking it over"—I also said that as regarded leaving England, it would be a pity; what should he leave England for?—he said it would be better, because there would be so much scandal, talking; and then he said if I could give him money, and would keep it secret, (for if once it transpired to a third person it would remain no longer a secret,) then he might perhaps be able to work, or something of that kind—that was the substance of what passed at the two interviews—after that I again saw him, and I then alluded to the letters—I said, "I must have my letters"—I said that to him more than once—I repeated it every time I saw him—he said, "You shall have your letters"—I afterwards had an interview with him at the Baker-street Bazaar—I appointed it—I said that I would see him in Pellatt's department, where we were in the habit of buying our china—we were beginning the conversation there, and he said that there were so many persons about it would be better to go to the carriage department, which we did—almost the first thing he said to me, when be saw me, was, "Don't be afraid," when we went to the carriage department, for he had seen fear on my countenance; I was very much agitated; I had a horror of seeing him, because I knew he was then beut upon something—he asked what I had decided, what I could give him—I said, "I hare decided nothing in one sense; but if after all my kindness to you, and all that I have done for you, after the kind interest I have shown in you, you still say I have injured you, though I cannot see it myself, and though I never meant it, and though I do not think anybody would admit it, still, if you promise me my letters

faithfully, I will endeavour, if I can, to let you have 2,000l." but this was all under the greatest agitation, whether I said 2,000l. or 20,000l. or what I cannot say, it might have been anything—I was barely aware, but my bent was to have my letters, whatever I gave him—he said, "You shall have your letters"—I told him that I did not know that I could accomplish it but that I could not do anything till after the 11th or 12th of July—he said, "That will do for the moment;" but I said, "No; do not say tint do not deceive yourself; do not flatter yourself; I can do no more and I will do no more, if I can even do that, it will be as much as I can afford," and he admitted that he quite understood me—on leaving the Baker-street Bazaar just near the portico, he turned suddenly round, as if nothing had occurred at all between us, and said, "What day shall we go to Marochtti's studio and Phillip's?"—I was so astounded at such a question that I did not know what to do, but still under the same impression of fear, I said, "I will let you know what day"—I scarcely know what I said—I did call on him after that, I think about 27th or 28th of July, at his house in Ovingonsquare—when I went in he said, "Well, what have you decided?—he said "I thought you would have had it in your hand"—I said, "No"—he said, speaking in French all the time, "Why this is a moment when a lady, I should rather say a woman, ought to sell to the very last of anything that she possesses"—I said, "I do not understand you"—I was quite petrified, for I bad not the slightest notion that any one could have spoken to me in such a way—he was very violent during this interview, in words, gestures, and everything—he said, "It is money, money, money, that I must have;" and he took hold of his coat and dragged it in this way, and said, "It is in that way that you shall be drawn along by me"—I was perfectly petrified, and said, "I do not understand what you mean"—he said, "Oh! it is rather figurative, but that is the way you shall be drawn along by me"—and he spoke about a spy, and a society of Italians of 1,000 or 2,000, and how easily they could bear from Naples in a few days, and so on—it was in detached, violent, and incoherent sentences—he said he must have a 100l. in a day or two of the 2,000l.—I said, "Well, I will see what day I. can do that"—and the termination of that interview was, that I was to have my letters when I gave him the remainder—I afterwards met him at the Baker-street bazaar, and gave him the 100l.; nothing particular passed between us then; I was very much disgusted, and frightened, and flurried, and glad to get away, and to say little or nothing—I did not make any arrangement then about the remaining portion of the 2,000l.—I wrote to him after that, I cannot call it a letter, I wrote on a small sheet of note paper on Friday, 2d. August (Notice to produce this letter having been proved it was not produced.—I remember the terms of the letter, it commenced "Friday," and the words were these, "To-morrow, at half-past 10, or towards 11, at the Pantheon Bazaar, in Oxford-street, where the paintings are Bold, and bring with you my letters," with a hue under the words. On the following morning towards 11 o'clock, I went lo the Pantheon—I had previously obtained nineteen 100l. notes at the bankers on the 2d. of August, and put them up in a parcel of writing paper—I found the prisoner at the Pantheon when I went in, in the large room upstairs, where the paintings are—he addressed me first—he said, "How do you do?"—I did not give any answer, but I said we were immediately leaving town, and then he said, "Give it to me give it to me "—I said, "Where are my letters?"—he said, "I have them"—I said, "Where are they?"—his hands were down, he was looking at a

painting; he had his overcoat on, and he had his two hands down in this way, and said, "Here"—I did not see anything, but as a pocket looks when it has a large thing in it—I saw his pocket as though it had a parcel in it—I said to him, "Remember in what way you obtain this money, it is a very large sum, and all the notes are numbered, they are very easily traced—and there were a few other remarks of his and mine—two, three, or four persons came into that room, and we then passed round and went into a little narrow sort of room leading to the gallery of the Bazaar, a sort of passage room—he commenced looking at a small painting again there—during the time I was in the other room, I think he must have said the words "Give it to me," eight or ten times at intervals—he looked very pallid, and his eyes were fixed as upon some one object which he had in view, and nothing more—he still did not make the slightest allusion to my even baring them—when we got into the narrow room, I told him I had had great difficulty in getting the money, there had been so many formalities to go through, which to me was all new; I had never done such a thing before—he then said, "Give it me"—I said, "Give me my letters," with great emphasis, on which he gave me a brown paper parcel, saying, "Here they are"—I did not ask him as to whether they were all there—I had previously said to him, "All my letters," I always asked him for all my letters—when he had given me the parcel, I took out of my pocket the panel in the writing paper; this is it (produced,—it looks exactly like it—I handed it to him, and he took hold of it with his left hand, and with his right forefinger he opened the seals, and turned it round in that way—I said, "Yes; there are nineteen 100l. notes there, they are all numbered and can easily be traced—it is a very large sum, and you should be very careful of what you do with it"—he had said to me in the other room, "Oh, yes; I shall have some money, and if I do not succeed in the coming season, I shall have money in my pocket to go away with; he had spoken about America and other things—we then went, downstairs—I retained the parcel, fully believing, at that time, that my letters were in it—at the entrance or vestibule of the hall, I said to him, "Now we will go to a booksellers or stationers in Oxford-street, and I wish you, to give me a stamped receipt"—there was a little sort of hesitation on his part, and I said, "It is very easy"—he said, "Oh, there will be too many witnesses"—I said, "Oh, dear, no, it is a common thing that any one will do; the shop-keeper is always civil; he will allow you to write any little memorandum you please, we will go into my booksellers or stationers, there is never any objection to it"—upon which he said, pulling out his watch, that he had do idea it was so late, drawing his breath at the same time, that he had an appointment, and I said, "Very well, then you will send it me by post"—he said, "Yes; I shall send it you by post"—and then he went away—that was the last I saw of him.

Q. When you handed to him this 1,900l. in money, what induced you to do it? A. Merely that I wished to have my letters—at the time he handed the parcel to me, I fully believed that it contained my letters, not a doubt passed in my mind—I afterwards got into a cab, and after I had driven about 100 yards I opened the parcel, it was sealed, the seals are now broken; what I first saw was this—the parcel consists of bite of printed papers, tied across with white string both ways, and at the bottom is a letter which has my writing on it; at the first moment when I discovered this I was about to pull the string for the man to drive back, intending to have an interview, but I thought that would be very undignified, and I

did not do so—there is a hole in the parcel, and on looking through that hole, if I had done so, I should have seen my own handwriting on this letter—when I got home I communicated with my brother, Mr. Campbell John-stone, when he came home; he was not at home on my arrival—I communicated the circumstances to him, and placed the whole matter in his hands—he is my guardian and trustee—these two letters, dated 16th and 17th August, are the prisoner's writing—I have seen and read them—my brother opened them in the first instance—(Translations of that letters was here read at follows. "16th August My dearest,—I receive this very moment a letter which makes me laugh, and I believe you will laugh, also when you read it. By G—, I think you have chosen the worst path, and I warn you, that if you take another step not friendly, I shall give your letters into the hands of a Magistrate in order to claim my rights. Miss Frederica, with your hands you have ruined me, and with your hands you shall save me from the precipice into which you have thrown me. Yes have destroyed my future, and shall restore it to me, I swear it by my mother. The idea of taking steps against me makes me laugh very much Against me? Do you mean to say that you intend to make my conduct public? But that is what I want, in order to justify myself in the society which I live. Remember, however, that you have not a single reason in your favour. The star in the ceiling of my studio; the star you have reproduced in the picture; the star on the small bottle received from you as tokens of love, and the star in your hair, would be sufficient proof, without the letters, to condemn you. And what of the letters? Think that if any one dares to use violence with me, it will cost him his life. The letters are mine, and no one has a right to claim them, and I will not give them up except when you, yes, you shall wish it. Adieu, Frederica; remember that you will gain more by remaining my friend than by making war against me, and that I love you, and you as a reward have raised me. P.S.—Come and see me as soon as possible, and, if you like, in company with the gentleman that wrote the letter, as I shall be very happy to make his acquaistance. 17th August. Frederica,—It is now three years and more that you have known me, so that by this time you have already considered that the path you have chosen is the worst. I am in my rights with the laws of this country; there is no mortal being who can touch that which belongs me without scandal, therefore away with useless stratagems and foolish bravadoes; come and see me in good friendship as you have always done for the past, that which you and me can arrange cannot be done by any one else. Remember, that to get out of the ruin into which you have throw me I am ready for everything. Do you understand?!!! Ah, Frederica? I beg of you not to drive me to extremities, which may be terrible to and me. You have placed me in a position from which there is but one way to get out; that way is in your hands. Do not let your guardian write to me any more, for it is lost time; I have already said that I shall not open his letters any more"—I at one time gave the prisoner a seal—the impression of that seal is on the wax of this parcel—I saw it the moment I opened it—this is the seal (produced,—it bears the impression of a dove carrying a letter—the two envelopes of the letters which have just been read bear the same impression—the addresses are in the prisoner's handwriting—after the interview at the Pantheon, I never saw the prisoner again until he was is custody before the Magistrate.

Cross-examined by. MR. KEANE. Q. Have you author seal like this? A. No; I did not lend him one before with a like impression, and then get

that back, and have this made for him—I have lent him one with an antique lyre on it, not one with this impression—I have not another at all like this—I received letters from him before 3d August with impressions like this—I knew that he used the seal—no one was present at the Pantheon but he and I, that I am aware of—I carried this parcel in my hand when I left him—there is a letter inside it, written by me—I do not recollect how long before I met him I had sent that letter to him, except by looking at it I see the date of the postmark outside.

COURT Q. What is it? A. On the envelope I think it is the 12th—it is very much defaced; but I think it is 12th July.

MR. KEAN Q. You never date your letters, I believe? A. I form no project to do one or the other; sometimes I date them, sometimes I do not—I think I was not in the habit of dating my letters to the defendant—I think I seldom date any letters—I went to the studio once after 12th July and before 3d August—I did not see that letter there—I have not the slightest notion of having seen it—I was not alone in his studio at that time—the servant might have taken me in and he came in immediately—I have no recollection of being there alone—I did not take that letter away with me from his studio on the day I was there—I first showed the parcel, after I got it, to my brother—that was on Sunday, 4th August—I had never seen that parcel in any one's possession before I was at the Pantheon—no one had seen it in my possession before I showed it to my brother—I went home directly, and locked it up—I had opened the seals when I showed it to my brother—I do not know the newspapers or printed papers that are in it—I have not looked at them.

Q. You told me before the Magistrate that there was a time-table in it? A. I will look now and see, if you wish me to undo it—I did undo it in the presence of my brother, but I had not undone it before, and I did not look then—there is a time-table here of January, 1861—I think the railway that goes to Twickenham is the South-Western—we seldom go that way, we generally drive—I was not residing at Twickenham in August last—I have not resided at any time in this year at Twickenham—we had a residence there at the time and have still—we went there from time to time—we very frequently go there—(The Lord Chief Baron, having looked through the time-table, stated that it did not contain any reformat to the Twickenham line.—The parcel was delivered to me by the defendant at the Pantheon, fastened up—I destroyed portions of the prisoner's letters on 2d August, with the exception of one or two that I kept—I never counted how many I had—I have not a notion—they were just lying loose in my escritoire—my usual habit is, during the season to put by whatever letters or accounts I have, and before I leave town I open and destroy everything that ought not to be kept, therefore those that I had then were only those I had since our return—it would be more than half a-dozen—before we left town I destroyed any that I had—I have no letters by me new but these two—I had no conversation with him about his letters—not a word was said at the times I have mentioned about his letters to me—I went to him after the letter of 10th June, the one that makes the three propositions—I think I must have gone after I received the letter of 3d June, and before I received that of the 10th—the time that Mr. Collucci and I first had any conversation about returning my letters to me was certainly one of those two times—it must have been at that time when it came to anything regarding money—I am quite certain that at one of those times something was said by me about returning me the letters—I should say, to the best of my recollection,

that I have always been equally certain about it as I am now, for it was always on my mind—in the accounts I have given of the interview on 10th June, I believe I have always stated that the return of my letters by him was then mentioned—I cannot be sure, I believe so—I answered any questions that were asked me—I cannot remember whether I stated it, but I know what I did—the first proposition of the three is that I should marry him—all notions of our marrying had been quite given up between us at that time; certainly as far as I was concerned, and he knew it perfectly well—there was no person who had my confidence—I do not know that anybody on his part knew that the engagement, or the notion of engagement, had existed between us before he went to Italy—no one knew on my part—there would be nobody to whom I should have to explain it if nobody knew of it—the correspondence between us went on as before, at his particular request—it was always kind and friendly, and affectionate—it was not of the most affectionate character, not in my meaning—I addressed him in Italian, we spoke in Italian also—at the Pantheon we spoke in French, and in Baker-street—we generally spoke in French, unless I liked to speak in Italian for exercise—in business matters we spoke in French—I believe he speaks French well, better than he writes it—it is very variable, many persons make a mistake without intending to do so, and yet they may be very correct at other times. (Upon Mr. Keane proceeding to ask whether the letters written by the witness were not of the most affectionate character, Mr. Chambers objected to the contents of the letters being alluded to. The Lord Chief Baron was of opinion that the question could not be put.

Q. After you had abandoned the intention on your part to marry him, were you not on as affectionate terms with him as you were before? A. No—I have not a notion of the number of letters I have written to him after I had ceased to contemplate marrying him—whatever I wrote was generally in answer to one of his on some subject or another—I have not a notion as to how many; I never counted—I suppose I wrote sixty-three to him; but I am sure there were more—that would be in the space of about t two years—my name is Frederica—I used sometimes to be called Columba by him—that means a dove—it sounds ridiculous in English—I think he used in his letters to call me his Columba—Columba was the name by which I passed—I understand what he means by the star in his studio—it was not put there by my request—he put it there, and asked me if I had seen it—I should not have known it was a star—I never wore such a thing as a star in my hair—I think he stuck it in the picture—I gave him a scent bottle, and that had a star—I do not know whether it was in Ovingdon-square that he was lodging when I first knew him—I suppose it was—it was not by my wish that he took the house—he did not tell me he was going to take it—he spoke of the house—I did not wish him to take it—I did not tell him that I wished him to take it in order that no person might be is the house when I went to see him; I am certain of that—he was a great deal in my society at times; not going about with me, very seldom—I was a good deal with him at the studio—I went to have the painting done—he did not tell me that persons were making remarks upon him as receiving money from me—he never told me that, that I recollect—he did not tell me that he was compromised before the world by being so intimate with me—he used the word "compromised," but he did not say with me—there was never such a word in connection with me—he did not explain to me how it was he thought I had ruined him—he offered no explanation of it at any time, that I recollect—he did not say that in attending to me

he could not follow his profession, and had not followed it; he was following it immensely, I thought; I saw plenty of painting going on—he never said that his countrymen shunned him because be went so much with me—he did not tell me what the life was that he could no longer endure, the life that was mentioned in the letter of 10th June, nor did I ask him, because I heard him make use of that expression when I was first acquainted with him; he was always alluding to some mysterious thing which I did not know—the responsibility which I said I could not take upon myself, was the responsibility of advising, of telling him what to do—I believe it was the third or fourth day after receiving the letter of 10th June that I went to him—I went alone—this letter (produced,) is in my writing—it is in Italian—it begins "My dear friend,", "dear," or "dearest,"—it does mean u My dearest friend"—this letter was written after the rejection of the picture from the Royal Academy—it is simply dated "Wednesday"—I did not know that his picture was rejected by the Royal Academy until he particularly requested me to ascertain whether it was received or not—the letter was written by me in May—there is the post-mark on the envelope, May 9th—I suppose that is the correct post-mark—it was not my opinion that he was at that time a person who was worthy of my love, not under the sense of "love"—I wrote this letter with a great deal of feeling, in tower to one of his about his unworthiness, Asking me to go to Mr. El more about his picture, and saying that he was worthy of nothing, not even of the Royal Academy—you may put any construction upon it you please—my feeling at the time of writing it was that of the warmest and kinds t friendship, feeling for a person who bad been disappointed—I should feel for lay one disappointed, and would give them a helping hand, man or woman, as I have done—this letter, with the postmark of 20th September, 1860, is mine—I was not engaged to him at the date of that letter—lie never made n a condition of his giving hack the letters, that I should give him some written paper stating why they were given back; nothing of the kind at any time—he never told me that be could not give me back my letters until he had some paper from me that would justify him before society—there was never a promise by me to give him such a paper, nor did he tell me that he would not give me the letters until I did; nothing of the kind.

MR. M. CHAMBERS Q. When he handed you the parcel, did he ask for any such thing? A. Nothing of the kind—I have stated the time when I communicated to him that I broke off all contemplation of marriage with him—I said to him at the time, "I will always he your kind friend; I will always assist you in any way I can in kindness, and shall be delighted to see you carry forth your talent in your art, it is my greatest interest and Might; and I will do it with all my heart;"—he said, "You will write to me, won't you, with warm, kind, and affectionate feeling"—"Yes;" I said, "always, always as a friend, with the warmest and kindest feeling I can"—he said, "Coldness chills me; I have no friend on earth, and if you will take an interest in my future, it will give me spirit and life to pursue my art."

MR. KEANE Q. Did you at one time get some of your letters back from him? A. When he was going to Italy I asked him to give them to me.

MR. M. CHAMBERS Q. He went to Italy somewhere about the beginning of 1859? A. Yes; I supposed he went—at that time I said to him, as he described the state of the country, and everything being in such a disturbed state, "Would you leave anything that you consider as precious; any of my letters, and other little things you would like to leave with me, I will take

care of them?" and he said, "Yes;" and he gave me two small parcels, which I never opened until the time had so long passed when he was to have returned, and I was exceedingly ill with neuralgia, and I never expected to recover; I remember burning what he had given to me without looking at them—I put together what I had of his, and burnt them, because he had stayed away so long—I opened the parcel, but did not look at them—I do not know whether he gave me at that time all the letters I had previously written—I never thought of that at all—he gave me what I supposed was all my letters, but it is so long ago—afterwards, when we broke off, he wished me to write to him and deal with him with kindness and affection—I accordingly patronised and received him, and continued on the same friendly feeling—the painting was to be a secret surprise to my family, only he lengthened it out so very long, it seemed almost ridiculous at last—it was to have been finished in 1860—it was a portrait of myself and sister, and my little dog—my sister sometimes accompanied me, and sometimes he said he did not require her, and it was annoying and tedious to her, she did not enter into painting with the ardour that I did—I sent him a portrait of my little dog to paint from, as it died after the picture was commenced—we generally drove down to Twickenham; we might have gone by railway; but we don't like railways, and it is a pleasanter drive—I did not put the railway paper into the parcel—I did not make up the parcel myself—I should never have dreamt of it—I had no motive for doing such a thing.

PATRICK FRANCIS CAMPBELL JOHNSTON . I am the brother of Miss Frederica Johnstone, also her trustee and guardian—I recollect her communicating to me what had taken place between her and Collucci with regard to the delivery of the parcel, and other matters—she showed me the parcel on the Sunday, with the newspapers in it—after that I was obliged to go to Scotland on business of some importance—I returned on 16th August, and wrote a letter to the prisoner on that day—I kept a copy of it—this a copy of it—(Read. "16th August, 1861.—Sir, as guardian of the lady who met you on Saturday, August 3d, at the Pantheon, about 11 o'clock in the morning, I have to request that you will deliver to the bearer of this note all letters or documents of any kind which may have been addressed by the lady to you, a well as a stamped receipt for the 1,900l. in notes, Nos. from 55,062 to 55,080 inclusive. By this time you must have discovered that the parcel which you delivered to the lady on the receipt of the money, contained only useless old newspapers in lieu of her letters. If, therefore, within two hours all the letters, as well as a properly signed stamped receipt, are not given to the bearer, or left at the Reform Club, Pall Mall, I shall be obliged to take such steps as I am advised may be adopted towards you. I am, sir, your obedient servant, W. F. C. Johnstone.")—I received this answer in French to that letter—I received it about 5 o'clock or half-past—I understand the French language—(Read. "16th August—Dear Sir, the answer to the letter I have just received has been sent to the lady of whom you are the guardian. Accept, sir, the assurance of my most profound consideration, with which I am your most humble servant, Vincent Collucci")—I saw my sister after I had received that letter—in consequence of what passed between me and my sister she showed me a letter that she had received from the prisoner—the letter was, immediately after she received it, handed over to me, as the whole business was undertaken by me from 4th August—there is at the end of the letter an expression that he would give them if she wished it—in consequence of that I wrote him another letter of 17th August, 1861, of which this is a copy—I received this answer from him—(Read. "Dear Sir, I am very sorry

to state that what you are asking me is perfectly impossible, and that I win to be very much annoyed with such an affair. I have already stated that that is not the means to understand each other, and I hope it will be the last time I shall have to repeat it. The best plan is to beg the lady, on my behalf, to come and see me; for if she could, for her pleasure's sake, trouble herself once or twice a week during three years, there it no harm in her disturbing herself by making a few more visits, after which, I am persuadd, all will be right. I therefore beg of you not to trouble yourself any more by writing to me, for I shall tear the letters without opening them!!!")—There are three extortionary dashes put at the end of that—it is the most insulating way in which a French person addresses another; it is not at all the habit of a gentleman, it is that of a thorough blackguard—I know Preach society most intimately, and have the highest regard far it—I deemed it my duty to make certain inquiries, and then consulted a solicitor on Monday—a warrant was applied for, readily granted, and put into execution by Tanner, the police-officer.

Cross-examined. Q. If the letters had been delivered up you still would have applied for a warrant, would you not? A. I really do not know what steps I should have taken; I am not prepared to state—that letter is the way in which a French blackguard write—I am sorry to say that the writing of several French blackguards has been submitted to my inspection at several times—no Frenchman, who is a gentleman, ever writes with three dishes; and no gentleman, when applied to About the honour of a lady, ever answers you that your letters are to be torn to pieces—I never heard of any French gentleman doing I hat, or any English gentleman either—I have the honour of being a barrister.

ML MONTAGUE CHAMBER Q. But I believe not a practising barrister? A. No; I was originally, but I happened to have the good fortune to succeed to ample means—I have substantially retired from practice for some year.

RICHARD TANNER . I am a police-sergeant of the detective force—I executed the warrant against the prisoner n 21st August—I told him the nature of the charge—he said, "I do not understand the charge, perhaps you will explain it to me"—I then said, "The charge is, that you have received from a Miss Frederica Johnstone 1,900l. at the Pantheon, for you to return all her letters; and you have not returned the letters, hot have given her a parcel of old newspapers"—he said, "I have committed no fraud at all, what shall you do with me?"—he strongly pressed me to take him to the lady to make an arrangement—I said I could not do that; I must take him before the Magistrate who had granted the warrant; he could then have h a legal adviser, and make what arrangement he could—I then asked him if he would give me all the lady's letters—he said no he could not, he had not got them; they were at the house of a friend—I said, "I must have them, or I must search the house"—I went into his studio and examined some papers, and finally went upstairs; I found these letters in a davenport which he took me to, with my brother officer—the prisoner assisted in finding them; he helped to produce them; he found them—I said, "Are these all the letters you have given me?"—I counted them and said, "Here are 63; are they all Miss Johnstone's letters?"—he said, "Yes"—I then said, "Now I want the money"—he said, "I have spent some"—I said, "I must have what you have left, and you must account to me for the remainder; what have you spent I"—he then handed me this parcel containing sixteen 100l. Bank of England notes—I said, "What have you done with the other three?"—he "I have expended those in a manner that Miss Johnstone knows; we

were to be married"—he said. "I do not understand it, I have committed no fraud at all; I never gave Miss Johnstone a parcel, on my honour as a gentleman"—being a foreigner, I said to him, "Now, let me clearly understand you, do you deny giving Miss Johnstone the parcel at the Pantheonon the day in question?"—he said, "Yes, I do; I never gave her a parcel at all"—he said, "Miss Johnstone was to do something for me, which I shall not tell you, and then I should have returned her letters"—after he was taken to the station, I took a seal from his chain—I produce it it corresponds with the impressions on the wax on the parcel—I have not tried it with the two letters—they have not been in my possession.

Cross-examined. Q. You told him he must account to you for the money why must he do so? A. I considered it my duty to ask him to account—I had a warrant for his arrest—I certainly had not a search warrant—the warrant authorising me to arrest him authorises me to search his home, I believe—I have not the warrant here—he refused to tell me what he had done with the money—he then said, Miss Johnstone promised to do something for him, which he should not tell me—he gave that as a reason for not having given the. letters up.

MR. MONTAGUE CHAMBERS Q. He did deliver up to you the parcel containing the notes? A. Yes; I informed him of the nature of the charge and that the notes and the letters were connected with it, and then he gave them to me—the other notes have been traced.

RICHARD ADYE BAILY . I produce three 100l. notes, numbers 55,062, 55,063, and 55,080, all dated 10th January, 1861.

ELIZABETH GETTINGS . I know the prisoner, and also know a person of the name of Elizabeth Thornton—she is the lady I lived with at 24, Ovingdon square—I believe she was acquainted with the prisoner—I do not know the handwriting on this note (looking at one.—I know Mrs. Thornton's handwriting—I do not believe that is her writing—I do not know whose writing it is—I do not know the prisoner's writing.

MISS JOHNSTON. (re-examined.) I should say that the "V. Collucci" on this note 55,080. is the prisoner's writing—I do not know the hand writing of the name of Thornton on this other note—these are three of the notes that I gave to the prisoner—I have not the slightest knowledge of the manner in which the prisoner disposed of these three notes.

MR. KEANE Q. They were given to him to dispose of, I suppose A. I gave him no condition of any kind—I only warned him of the manner in which he disposed of them.

MR. KEANE. submitted that the case was not made out, inasmuch as the various Counts averred that all the letters written by Miss Johnstone to the defendant were to be returned to her, and that the defendant pretended that all the letters were in the parcel; whereas the evidence established the fact that then must have been many other letters received by him, some of which she had herself destroyed. MR. CHAMBER. contended that the pretence applied to all the letters then in his possession. THE LORD CHIEF BARON. and, MR. BARON MARTIN. were of opinion that the objection could not be entertained, and that the case must go to the Jury.

MR. CHAMBERS. claimed the right to reply; the contents of some letters having been alluded to in the cross-examination; but as the. THE LORD CHIEF BARON. though, in strictness, admitting that the right existed, recommended. MR. CHAMBER. not to insist upon it, he did not reply.

GUILTY .— Three Years' Penal Servitude.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-869
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

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869. EDWARD TAME (18), and WILLIAM BAILEY (22) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of George Jones Townsend Ewer, and stealing therein 28 halfpence, his money; Tame having been previously convicted; to which

TAME— PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Fifteen Months.

MR. PARK. conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES MCLEOD . (City-policeman. 141). From information I received, I went on the night of 29th September with Fawke, another officer, to the house of Mr. Ewer, Moor-lane, at about 12 o'clock—we concealed ourselves in the shop—at about a quarter past I, on that Sunday morning, we heard a noise as of some person getting over a low wall in the rear of the premises—the parlour window was raised up, and some one entered from outside, and lighted the gas in the parlour—I could see when it was alight that it was Tame who lighted it—he went through the shop to a desk in the corner of the shop, where there was some money left, took some money, and placed it in his pocket—he was in the act of taking some more, when I got out and seized him—I then took him to the station-house, and found 11 1/2 d. in coppers on him, and a knife—we had marked some coppers, and placed them among other coppers on the shelf, and we found portions of those which we marked when we searched him at the station—the window was fastened—I had previously seen both the prisoners together at 11 o'clock, in Moor-lane—I know them to be constant companions—when I took Tame to the station my brother constable went to take Bailey.

Bailey. Q. Did you see me with Tame before he broke into Mr. Ewer's shop? A. Yes; about 11 o'clock, in front of Newby's public-house.

JOSEPH WILLIAM FAWKE . (City-policeman. 112). I went to Mr. Ewer's shop, 18, Moor-lane—I marked some money—it was placed on a drawer in the shop—a little after I in the morning I heard footsteps of, I should say, three persons in the lane, and turn up the court—I heard some one drop heavily over the wall in the court, and I heard some one at the window—some one came into the parlour—I saw a light—the gas was turned on, and I heard some one, who afterwards turned out to be Tame, come into the shop—I assisted in taking him to the station-house, and then went t back and saw Bailey close to the wall where Tame must have got over—I told him I wanted him for being concerned with Tame, who was in custody, for breaking into Mr. Ewer's house—he said, "You have made a mistake this time, Mr. Fawke, for I have been in Shoreditch all the afternoon, at a coffee-shop"—I said, "You are wrong this time, for I heard your voice in Moor-lane at 11 o'clock"—I took him to the station-house and found nothing on him.

Bailey. Q. Did you see me with Tame previously on this night, before he broke into the house? A. I saw you in the afternoon, but I afterwards heard your voice in Moor-lane—I know your voice so well—I know your little brother.

Q. Was not I in at the glass-blowers when you came and fetched me? A. That is not more than two yards from the spot where I fetched you.

COURT Q. How long was it from the time you left Mr. Ewer's house till you came back to this wall where you found Bailey? A. Not a minute—I came back direct from the station-house for the purpose of taking him, because I knew he was there.

WILLIAM ROGER . (City-policeman. 122). On the night of 29th, I was in Moor-lane, and saw Bailey and Tame, at about a quarter to 1 o'clock, at the glass-blowers, together, on the step of the door.

GEORGE JONES TOWNSEND EWE . I live at 18, Moor-lane, which is in the parish of St. Giles Without, Cripplegate—on the night of the 29th I marked

some money—a police-constable afterwards called my attention to some halfpence, of which we had marked a lot—it was my money—on 29th september, about a little after 9 o'clock, Bailey came into my shop for some bread and cheese, and Tame was standing outside looking through the window—I secured my window that evening.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

NEW COURT—Wednesday, October. 23d, 1861.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-870
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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870. EDWARD WILLIAM BULLEN (18) , Stealing, whilst employed in the Post Office, I post letter, containing a bill of Exchange for 68l. 10s. an order for 80l., 7 promissory notes of 5l. each, 2 promissory notes of 10l. each, 6 5l. notes, and 2 10l. notes; also. 1 post letter, containing 1 ivory ticket, value 1s., the property of Her Majesty's Postmaster General; to both which he

PLEADED GUILTY . MR. CLERK. for the Prosecution, stated that 53 letters were found in the prisoners pocket, and 1,400 in a cupboard of which he had the key; some of which he had opened, and' the valuable property they had contained abstracted.

GUILTY.— Six Years' Penal Servitude.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-871
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

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871. GEORGE GARRETT (38) , was charged, on the Coroner's Inqniritios only, with the wilful murder of Eliza Garrett.

MR. RIBTON. for the Prosecution, offered no evidence.


21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-872
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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872. JAMES GILLMAN (60) , Feloniously forging and uttering a receipt for the payment of 2l., with intent to defraud.

MR. CLERK. conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM DUCK . I am a clerk in the Post-office, at Bath—on 23d September I issued a money-order for 2l., payable to Mr. Charles Mather, at the Holborn Post Office—it was given to Mr. Francis Thorley King, a solicitor, of Bath—this (produced,) is the letter of advice that I sent to the Post-office in High Holborn—the money was paid in by Mr. King when he got the order.

FRANCIS THORLEY KING . I am a solicitor, of Bath—on 23d September I had occasion to make a remittance of 2l. to Mr. Mather, of Bloomsbury—I addressed it to Charles Mather, but I have ascertained that his Christian name is George—I got an order for 2l. from the last witness, and inclosed it in a letter addressed, "Charles Mather, 108, Great Russel-street, London "—I gave the postal district, and posted it by the same post.

ROBERT MATHER . I am a nephew of Mr. George Mather, of 108, Great Russel-street, Bloomsbury—he lives at St. Albans and I am in the habit of receiving and opening letters addressed to him there—I have his authority to sign his name to money-orders and receipts—I have never received this money-order—I have never seen this signature before—I have not given any one authority to sign Charles Mather, or Mather, at all to this paper—I received no order from Mr. King for 2l. on 24th September—I did afterwards.

GEORGE MATHER . I live at St. Albans, and have an office in Great Russel-street, Bloomsbury, where my nephew resides—this name, Charles

Mather, on this order, is not written by me, or by my authority—it is not the signature of anybody in my employment.

SARAH ELIZA LUFF . I assist Mrs. Muller, who keeps the Post Office, in Holborn, just opposite Chancery-lane—on 28th September, exactly at 4 o'clock, which was just before the office closed, the prisoner came with an order—a person had been on the 24th in the morning, and produced a Postoffice order signed—I told him that we had not got any letter of advice, and he went away with the order—he came again on Saturday, 28th, at 4 in the afternoon—I had then got the letter of advice, and had in the mean time had a communication from Mr. Mather of Bloomsbury—his orders are usually paid into his bankers—the prisoner asked me whether I had received the letter of advice—I said, "Yes," and he produced this order—I sent for a constable, and the prisoner was taken in custody in the office.

WILLIAM CARROLL . (Policeman.). On 28th September I went to Muller's Post-office, Holborn, and took the prisoner in custody for forging a money-order, which was given to me when I went in—he said, "On Tuesday I met a gentleman at the corner of Chancery-lane, who asked me if I would go to the Post-office and get an order cashed for him, as he was waiting to see a gentleman, whom he should miss if he went himself and then the gentleman offered him a shilling for going; that he went to the Post-office and presented the order, and was told by the people that they had not received the advice from the country, and he was to call again, and he came back and told the gentleman what they told him, and gave him the order back; that he then made an appointment to meet the gentleman on the Saturday, in Museum-street, Bloomsbury—he said, "I went and met him at 3 o'clock, and he gave me the Post-office order, and promised to give me half-a-crown if I got it cashed. I got it cashed, and went back to the gentleman, but, could not see him'—Museum-street is about three-quarters of a mile from Muller's Post-office, which is a little bit lower down than the top of Chancery-lane—I was in uniform.

Prisoner. Q. Did not I ask you several times if you would be kind enough to go round to the Museum, as it was a wet night, and he would probably not wait? A. You asked me to go with you to meet the gentleman in Museum-street—I went to the station first, and then went—you said nothing about it being a wet night, and that the gentleman would probably go.

MR. CLERK Q. Where is the station? A. George-street, New Oxford-street, only a few minutes' walk from Museum-street—it might have been half an hour, from the time I took him in custody, till I went to Museum-street.

WILLIAM TOBIAS BAKE . I am a clerk in the Post-office, Bath—on 26th July, Mr. George Frederick Price obtained this money-order for 1l., payable to George Mather, Greek-street, Soho—I made out, at the same time, a letter of advice for the Greek-street office, to pay 1l. to George Mather.

GEORGE FREDERICK PRICE . I live in Broad street. Bath—on 26th July I obtained this order for 1l. at the Bath Post-office, payable to George Mather, at the office in Greek-street, Soho—I inclosed it in a letter, and Posted it the same day to George Mather, 108, Great Russel-street, Bloomsbury.

ROBERT MATHER . (re-examined.) This order for 1l., payable to George Mather, and signed George Mather, is not signed by me, or by my uncle—I gave no one authority to receive the money—I did not receive a Postoffice order that day from Mr. Price, of Bath—I do not know the prisoner.

GEORGE MATHER . (re-examined.) On 27th July I was at the Post-office receiving-house, Greek-street, Soho, kept by Mr. Tirrell—I was not than aware that Mr. Price, of Bath, had sent me an order for 1l.—while I was there, a man, who I believe to be the prisoner, came in to cash a Post-office order for 1l.—I do not speak positively to him—I saw Mr. Tirrell give him a sovereign for it—I did not look at the order—I left about half a minute before him, Mr. Tirrell having made a communication to me, and followed the prisoner—he went into a public-house at the corner of Hart-street, Bloomsbury, and had something to drink—Mr. Tirrell was just outside—the prisoner paid with a sovereign, and received his change—I followed him to Bloomsbury-square, where I lost sight of him, and did not see him age in till he was taken in custody on the other charge—this is not my signature to this order—my nephew has authority to sign my name, but this is not his writing—I gave nobody authority to make this signature.

Prisoner. You and Mr. Tirrell followed me about for half an hour, and you were in the shop; you must have had a full view of me, or of the person for half an hour? Witness. Yes; I had those opportunities of observing you, and have not the slightest doubt you are the man—I was endeavouring to find out who you were in league with.

JOHN TIRREL . I keep the Poet-office receiving house in Greek-street, Soho—on 27th July, I received a letter of advice from Bath to pay 1l. to George Mather—the prisoner called about 12 o'clock on that morning, and presented the order—we asked him who sent the money and he could not tell—he went away and came back with the name—I had in the mean time communicated with Mr. George Mather, who came to the receiving-house—the prisoner came back about 3 o'clock in the afternoon with this Postoffice order, and Mr. Mather was then in the shop—the prisoner told me that Mr. Price was the transmitter of the order, and I paid him the sovereign—Mr. Mather and I followed him up Crown-street into New Oxford-street and Hart-street, to the corner of Duke-street, where he went into a public-house—I saw him have something to drink there—I did not see him lay a sovereign down, but I saw him take up the change—we lost him most mysteriously near Bloomsbury-square, and did not see him again till he was taken in custody.

Prisoner's Defence. I was delivering circulars, and a person at the top of Chancery-lane asked me to go to the Post-office to get the order, as a friend was going to take him out of town in his gig, who would not wait if he was out of the way. I went to the Post-office, and they said they had no advice; the gentleman then asked me to meet him at the British Museum on Saturday to get the order, and he would give me 2s. 6d., I went and was given in custody; I asked the policeman to go to the Museum, and he would not go till long after, and then he was not to be found.

GUILTY. of uttering. Confined Eighteen Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-873
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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873. THOMAS ROGER (22) , Stealing, whilst employed in the Postoffice, 1 letter, containing 1 postage stamp, the property of Her Majesty's Postmaster General.

MR. CLERK. and, METCALF. conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS COLLIN . I live at 18, Abbey-grove, Hulme, near Manchester—on 9th September, I wrote this letter (produced,) and put it in the envelope, inclosing a penny postage stamp—I directed it to Mrs. Collins, at Mr. Smith's, Harro Weal Park, Stanmore, Middlesex—I posted it at the office at Shepworth-grove, near Manchester, in time for that night's post.

Cross-examined by. MR. LEWIS Q. Do you there inform your wife that you will send her 20s. worth of postage stamps? A. Either 1l. worth or more—I sent her 20s. worth, and I know that she received them.

THOMAS HADLEY DAVIS . I am sorter at the North Western district office—this letter (Looking at the envelope, passed through that office on 10th September—it would leave the Northern office at 7.40—I make up the bag myself—I dispatched all letters for Stan more that morning.

EMMA COLLIN . I am the wife of Thomas Collins—on 9th September, I was at Harrow Weal Park—I did not receive this letter from my husband—I expected to do so on Tuesday—on the Wednesday the prisoner brought me a letter, and I said, "I ought to have received a letter yesterday"—he said that most likely it was wrongly directed—I asked him again next day, and he said that he knew nothing about it, and on the Friday he asked me if I had heard anything about it—I said, "It is mentioned in this one you brought this morning; he posted it, and he wants an answer to Monday night's letter"—he said most likely I should hear of it—that was about 11 o'clock on Friday, and I heard of it through the police about half-past 8 that night—one of the letters the prisoner brought contained nothing but postage stamps and in an envelope, and the other was a letter—the prisoner said, before I opened it, "These are stamps; shall I change them for you?"—it was not clear to everybody that there were stamps in it; you could not sea them through the envelope, but it was thick—I gave them to him to change, and he brought me black the money for them—I understand that he is very much respected in that neighbourhood—I know that he was on friendly terms with Mrs. Beswick, where I was staying, I know nothing to the contrary.

MR. CLERK Q. What friendship did you see between Mrs. Beswick and him; did he come to tea or dinner? A. No, there was nothing but civility.

WALTER CLARK . I am charge-taker at the Stanmore Post-office; that is the principal letter carrier, and I take charge of the letter carriers—the prisoner was employed at that office as an auxillary letter carrier—he had been there two years—on 10th September, the mail bag arrived at about a quarter before 9 in the morning—this letter was in the prisoner's delivery if it came to the Stanmore office—it is not stamped there; the last stamp is at the North Western office—on 13th September, about 12 o'clock, I went with Mr. 'Style to the prisoner's lodgings.—the prisoner was there, and I asked him for his pouch—he went out of the room into the next room where his pouch bung on the coal-cellar door, took something out of it, and flung it upon the coals—I said, "I will not have anything flung away"—I searched the coals and found this envelope—he did not see me find it—he was at that moment given in custody—I gave it to Mr. Styles.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you see the pouch? A. Yes—he must have gone to it before I saw it—I examined it—there was nothing in it but a book, which was given up—I do not know the name of it—there were not some envelopes addressed to himself—I only found one paper on the coals—I examined them well.

MR. CLERK Q. How long was the prisoner at the door where the pouch was? A. About a minute—I followed him immediately—he was not out of my sight.

CHARLES DONALD STYLE . I am one of the travelling inspectors of the Post-office—on 13th September, I gave the prisoner in custody, and received from Clarke the envelope addressed to Mrs. Collins—I afterwards received

from Whitley the letter, and the penny stamp inside, which I found corresponded with the one outside, as if torn one from the other—it was not a book in the pouch; it was a newspaper or miscellany with a wrapper round it, addressed to Miss somebody.

Cross-examined. Q. Was the prisoner an auxiliary postman? A. An Auxiliary letter carrier—he gets the valuable salary of 9s. a-week—he has had that salary about two years—I examined the pouch as well as Clarks, and will swear there was no book in it—this is the pouch (produced,—the Government furnishes him with it, in the London district.

MR. CLERK Q. Do you know how long the prisoner was employed? A. From 7 in the morning till about half-past 11—he was not obliged to return to the office after the completion of the morning delivery—he had two deliveries in the morning—the auxiliary letter carriers have no other duties in the Post-office upon which they are engaged; but they carry an occupations of their own.

HENRY WHITLEY . (Policeman.) I am a constable of Stanmore—I went with Mr. Styles to the prisoner's lodgings, and took him in custody on a charge of stealing a poet-letter—as we went to the station at Edgeware, I held the prisoner by his left hand; his right hand was free, and he put it into his coat pocket and pulled out some note paper, which he dropped a the ground—I said, "You have dropped something?"—he said, "No, I have not"—I said, "I saw it in your hand as you drawed, our hand from your pocket"—he said, "Well, I did Whitley, but make away with it; throw it away, it is no use"—I said, "I shall do no such thing"—he said, "Do not show it when you get to the station, it is of no use"—I picked it up—this is it (A letter without an envelope.)

GUILTY .— Recommended to mercy by the Jury on account of his youth. Four Years Penal Servitude.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-874
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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874. FRANCIS JAMES (32) , Stealing 1 chain, 1 seal, 1 key, and I half guinea, the property of James Picton Bradley, from his person; to which be

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-875
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment

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875. CHARLES WESTON (23), and JAMES MORRIS (21), Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of the Board of Management of the Central London District School, and stealing therein 1 metal lid, their property; also, burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Charles Washbourne Dyer, and stealing therein 1 coat, 2 letters, and 1 card, his property; also, stealing 1 coat, the property of the said Charles Washbourne Dyer, Weston having been before convicted; to all which they PLEADED GUILTY .

WESTON.— Three Years' Penal Servitude.

MORRIS.— Confined Eighteen Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-876
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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876. WILLIAM GOOD (56) , Feloniously forging and uttering as order for the payment of 10l. with intent to defraud.

MESSRS. GIFFARD. and MATTHEW. conducted the Prosecution.

JOSEPH SMOUT . I am a butcher, and carry on business with my father at 6, Upper North-place, Gray's-inn-road—I have known the prisoner more than twenty years—he was formerly a customer of mine—that was while he lived with his wife in Guildford-street—I do not exactly know when he left there—on 16th July, the prisoner came in and said, "Good morning, Mr. Smout; can you cash me a cheque?"—he produced this cheque (produced,—I said, "I do not know whether we can," and I asked my wife what cash she

had—the prisoner said, "It is one of the old lady's; I am badly off, and I dare say it is the last I shall get"—by "the old lady's," I understood Mrs. pass—I have taken cheques from her before, and have cashed her cheques—I cannot say whether the prisoner has ever brought me a cheque of her's—I have served him so many years. (Cheque read.—"London, July 15, 1861. To the Cashiers of the Bank of England. Pay W. Goode, or order, 10l.—Mary Ann Paas.")—he said, "I do not want all the money to-day; if you will give me part I will call again for the other"—I gave him 5l.—next morning, about 11 o'clock, be came and asked for the balance, which he had—I had paid the cheque away before breakfast that morning to Mr. Hicks, of Newgate-market, and it came back to me next morning with the appendage, "The signature differs"—I afterwards found it was not genuine, and had to pay the money to Mr. Hicks—I went in search of the prisoner, and heard that he lived in Baker-street, Clerkenwell—I went there, and saw Mary James, the woman who I believe lives with him—I did not tell her what I wanted him for—I did not see him again till my brother brought him from Gravesend on 24th September, where I sent my brother, in consequence of information I received—I came in from Blackwall-station, and he was in the parlour—he put out his band to shake hands with me—I said, "Mr. Goode, I shall not snake hands with you, you have treated me very hardly; of course you know what I have sent for you for?"—he said, "Yes; for the cheque; if you will give me till Friday I shall be in the receipt of some money, and I will take it up"—I said, "No; you have had time enough if you intended to have done so to have done so before this"—I told him I had an officer outside, and should give him in charge—he said, "If your father had been in town he would not have allowed you to have done so"—I said, "I am in the same position as my father, and shall act as I think proper"—I think I said that Mary James must have known what I was after him for, but he made no answer to that to my knowledge—I have not, seen Mary James since—after that he asked me to let him go down stairs, to the water-closet, he then unbuttoned his coat and turned up his sleeves as if he was looking for a flea, pulled out a penknife, and attempted to put it into his arm; but I stopped him, called an officer, and gave him in charge—I went to the station and charged him with uttering a forged cheque—he said that it was great folly; but he had been driven to it by his family.

Cross-examined by. MR. PALMER Q. Did not you supply him with meat before ever he was married? A. My father did—my father did not, to my knowledge, know him long before his marriage—he was not known at our shop before he was married—I have not heard so—he came up willingly with my brother without a warrant—the Magistrate did not tell me I had no right to detain him—I have cashed cheques for Mrs. Paas when she lived in Guildford-street, and they were always good—I was brought into the business when I left school, and have known her ever since—I have known the prisoner the same time—I do not remember his keeping a large shop—I did not know him when he was unfortunately in a lunatic asylum—when I discovered that this cheque was bad, I applied to Mrs. Paas; how could I tell it was a forgery without going—I went to find out—I had been in the habit of cashing her cheques for years—I knew the body of it was not her writing because they were all in Bank of England cheques; but I have not seen her writing for seven or eight years—I thought the signature was her's—I asked her if she would let me have the money for it—she said, "No;" certainly she would not pay a shilling of it; that I was a great fool for it, and I might lose it—I do not remember receiving a cheque of

the prisoner before, but I do not take all the money in our house—Mr. Goode's daughter has sometimes come, sometimes the cook, sometimes the housemaid, and sometimes Mrs. Paas; but I never recollect cashing a cheque for Mr. Goode before—our accounts are more often paid by the ladies than by the gentlemen.

MR. GIFFARD Q. How recently had you cashed a cheque for Mrs. Pass? A. Not for seven or eight years—although the prisoner had not cashed cheques, I knew him as Mrs. Paas' son-in-law—Mrs. Paas was not dealing with us during the last seven years—I cashed this cheque simply from a knowledge I had of others previously.

MARY ANN PAA . The prisoner is my son-in-law—he once lived in the same house as me in Guildford-street—it was my house—I paid the rent and furnished it—I left it a year and a half ago, and my daughter left it too, and came to live with me—this cheque is not my writing—I did not authorise the prisoner or any other person to sign it—I never authorised him to sign a cheque for me—I keep a drawing account at the Bank of ngland, and have for twenty-five years—the prisoner knew that—I had had a communication with him a few months before 16th July.

Cross-examined. Q. Can you say definitely how long it was before 16th July that you saw him? A. Six months before—it might be as late as two or three months before—I think it was three months before 16th July—it is twenty-six years since the prisoner married my daughter—I was a widow at that time—the prisoner made a settlement upon my daughter—I never resided with them—I do not say that all the furniture was paid for by me with my money—my daughter did not take some money, or plate, or furniture from her husband and bring it to my house—she left her husband's house in his absence, and came to me—she brought no furniture with her, only her clothes—there was no plate brought—there was no dispute where the plate was—the prisoner owes me money—I bought his life policy of him—I have advanced him 3,000l.—he has been in the Insolvent-court—I was a creditor of his there—I had him confined in a lunatic asylum some time, ago because he was mad, and my daughter was with me.

Q. Was not your daughter in the habit of drinking, and did not disturbances arise because he thought she was protected by you? A. No; nothing of the kind—I have been told that he is in the habit of carrying poison about with him—he frequently talks of committing suicide—before my daughter came to me I allowed her 60l. a year—I first commenced lending the prisoner money, on security, fourteen or sixteen years ago—I have paid advances to him on his own private account sixteen years ago—I cannot tell when I ceased lending him money—I almost kept him for fourteen years, and his wife and children, as they were starving—I cannot say when was the last considerable sum that I lent him—I should think it is about sixteen yean ago that he wont through the Insolvent Court—I have not kept an account of how much I advanced to him—I have kept his children and wife—I allowed them 60l. a year—I proved my debt against him under the Insolvency—my daughter was living at Guildford-street all this time—she did not live on good terms with her husband till this occurrence—I was not always in town—I resided in Regent-street, and do now—I have only resided there three years—the prisoner has two sons—he has had a houseful of furniture left him, and he has been living upon that I believe—my daughter holds no communication with him.

MR. GIFFARD Q. Did your daughter leave the house in her husband's absence? A. Yes; that was about eighteen months ago—she and the

prisoner had been living together before that for about twenty years; not in Guildford-street for twenty years, about twelve years there—when my daughter left about eighteen months ago, she came to live with me, and has lived with me ever since—I have never lent the prisoner any money since that time.

MR. PALMER Q. Have you a son? A. Yes; he resides with me—I do not of the prisoner coming to my house on the morning of this cheque, and having an interview with me or my son and asking for money—Mr. Smout came and asked for the money for the cheque—I do not know of the prisoner coming the morning before—he went and asked my son to lead him 5l.—that was at my son's business place.

MR. GIFFARD Q. Is that what your son told you? A. Yes.

WILLIAM PAAS . The prisoner came to me on the 15th, the date of this cheque, about 3 o'clock in the afternoon—he wanted to know if I would land him 5l.—I said, "Certainly not, I cannot"—he said nothing at all about his getting a cheque from my mother, or being about to draw a cheque in my mother's name—I keep the whole of my mother's accounts, and have done so for some time, and my brother has done it before me.

Cross-examined. Q. Did he tell you what he wanted the 5l. for? A. No; I said I could not, and he said I could—I told him not to come and insult roe in my own office, and told him to walk out—he is the man that married my sister, and a bigger villain never existed—that is my opinion.

RICHARD SMOUT . I am the brother of Joseph Smout, and assist him in his boldness—on the 14th, my brother sent me to Gravesend to look after the prisoner—I waited for him in the street, and saw him come out of a house where I understood he lived—I went up to him—I had known him before—I told him I wanted him for uttering a forged cheque, well knowing it to be forged—I said that to him the first thing, when I put my hand on his shoulder; his back was turned towards me—he said, "Then I must go with you I suppose"—took him to a police-station and charged him with felony—the superintendent refused to take the charge because I had no warrant for his apprehension—it was not a Magistrate, only a superintendent of the constabulary—upon that I left the police-office, and went out with the prisoner—when I got outside I asked him if he would go with me to London; that if he did not I should telegraph up to London for a constable and a warrant for his apprehension—he said he would go with me to London—he came with me voluntarily, in the same carriage in the train—we had some conversation about this matter.

MR. PALMER Q. Did you not tell him that your brother would perhaps be induced to settle it A. I did not—nothing was said by me about settling it, or about coming up to London about settling it; nothing of the kind.

MR. MATTHEWS Q. What was it he said to you in the train? A. He said that if it had remained a few days, he should probably have had money that would have met the cheque—nothing further passed except that he said he had Borne poison under his pillow, and should have made away with himself if he had known that I had been down there—he said that his family had been the cause of it all.

Cross-examined. Q. When you told him you wanted him for uttering a forged cheque, did he come along voluntarily? A. Yes; no other questions were asked, nothing about my brother—all he said about Mrs. Paas was "Peaking about family matters—nothing was said about Mrs. Paas settling it—he said he thought if my father had been in town he would not have prosecuted him—I have not seen Mrs. Paas for some years until yesterday

—she was not acquainted with me at all when she saw me then—I did not write to her at all—I am only a servant of my brother.

KBSIAH LOCKE . I am the wife of Richard Locke, of 24, Baker-street Clerkenwell—the prisoner came to my house, and engaged two room on 20th or 21st March last; they were a sitting-room and a bedroom A woman came two or three days afterwards with him; her name was Mary—he came first with a van of, goods, and then the woman came afterwards—she told me that she was his housekeeper, and he likewise told me so—I did not know that they occupied the same bedroom; I understood that the young woman slept in the front room; they had a couch in the front tm—the rooms were let by me unfurnished, they furnished them themselves—on 15th July, in consequence of the non-payment of my rent, I put in distress—on the 16th, the prisoner paid the broker out—it was 4l. 2s. 6d.

MR. PALMER Q. Were you present? A. I was not in the room.

MR. GIFFARD Q. Did you get the money? A. Yes; the broker paid me—the prisoner went out on the 17th, and never came back any more—woman stayed till the following Tuesday morning, and then she moved what remained of the goods and went.

MR. PALMER. called.

DR. AUGUSTCS MERRICK . I am a physician, and have known the prisoner more than twenty years—I was at school with his son when I first knew him—I received a great many acts of kindness from him—I have frequently entrusted him with money and have found him very correct—he had pecuniary assistance from my father for some years—during those twenty years I have known nothing against few honesty at all—I haw always considered him honest.

Cross-examined by. MR. GIFFARD Q. Waere do you live? A. Leadonhall-street—I hare lived there about four years—my age is about thirty-two—I have known him twenty yean—being with my father I have heard his idea of the prisoner being an honest man, and during the last fore year I hare had personal knowledge of his honesty—I bare entrusted him with money to pay the rent of my house—he has not been acting as an agent for me—he has borrowed a considerable sum of money of me in small sums, for a long time—he is in my debt still—I have kept no account as to what extent.

MR. PALMER Q. Have you been assisting him out of kindness shown to as a boy at school? A. Yes; he has been in a state of sometimes, and I have assisted him.

GUILTY. of uttering.— Confined Twelve Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-877
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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877. FRANCIS BRANNAN (51) , Feloniously, carnally knowing and abusing Elizabeth Sarah Roberts, aged eight years.

MESSRS. SLEIGH. and, TAYLOR. conducted the Prosecution.

GUILTY .— Four Years Penal Servitude.

THIRD COURT—Wednesday, October. 23d, 1861.


Before Mr. Recorder.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-878
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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878. CHARLES KNIGHT (18) , Robbery upon Mary Somers, and stealing from her person 1 bag, 2 pairs of snulffers, and 3d. in money, her property; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .*†— Confined Eighteen Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-879
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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879. JOSEPH COELHO (30) , Feloniously forging and uttering an order for the payment of 300l., with intent to defraud.

MESSRS METCALF. and, HRNBMAN. conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE ALEXANDER FAITHFUL . I am a member of the firm of Crawford, Lindsays and Faithfull, linen manufacturers, of 3, Lawrence-lane, Cheapside, and of Banbridge, in Ireland—the prisoner has been in our firm nearly ten years—we have a large Spanish connexion, to which it was his duty princeually to attend—in September be went through his accounts with me—by his own showing, the accounts showed 300l. due to us from him—he first proposed to pay that by giving us promissory notes, signed by Mr. Frodsham's in addition to his own name—we agreed to that—I was acquainted with Mr. Frodsham's name attached to them; but subsequently be stated that Mr. Frodaham objected to put his name to the promissory notes—I am referring to what he said in writing and in, conversation also—he first proposed to pay the money by giving us promissory notes, signed by Mr. Frodsham, in addition to his own name—we agreed to that—I was acquainted with Mr. Frodsham, and knew what his circumstances were—the prisoner gave the promissory notes to Mr. Lindsays; not to me—they were not with the name of Mr. Frodsham, but without—this (produced,) is a fetter my partner received; I saw it at the time—it is in the prisoner's writing—I think I can state positively that it was on 21st September that I first saw it—(This letter, addressed to the prosecutors, was dated. 9, Catharine-street, Seething-lane, and agained by the prisoner; it stated that he had just seen Mr. Frodsham, who objected to endorse bills, but did not refuse to become a guarantee; and that if they would draw up a form stating that Mr. Frodsham would guarantee the payment, of the prisoner's promissory note for, say. 50l., 30th March. 1862, 50l. 30th September. 1862,50l., 30th March. 1863, and the balance. 30th September, 1863, and send it to him at St Helier's, Jersey, he would sign it and return it them; and requested them to oblige him by toying whether that would do, tint he might draw the notes and otherwise get ready, as it was impossible for him to call at Lawrence-lane that day, unless it was after. 4 o'clock.—me then fast of all acceded to that request; the promissory motes were then brought to us, and we accepted them, and sent a letter to Mr. Frodsham on 21st September, written by ourselves, in the form of a guarantee.

RICHARD FRAMPTION COX . I am clerk to Messrs. Hensman and Nicholson, the attorneys for the prosecution—on Monday last, I served a notice to produce, of which this is a copy, on the prisoner.

MR. GIFFARD Q. What time on Monday? A. I suppose between 12 and I—I served no notice on the solicitor—the prisoner was in custody at the time.

COURT Q. Have you had any communication with tka prisoner's solicitor? A. No—I knew at that time that some solicitor was acting for him.

MR. FAITHFUL. (continued.) I do not thiak we seat a letter to him greeing to those terms; I think it was done verbally—the prisoner came to me with the promissory notes—my ptrtner drew out a blank form of guarantee, and sent it in a letter to Mr. Frodtham at Jersey—this (produced,) is the paper—I could not say whether it was inclosed in an envelope; when we sent this we wrote a letter to Mr. Frodsham, requesting him to return it—I subsequently received it from the prisoner on 1st October,

signed as it is now—he did not bring us anything else with that—the guarantee was not signed when we drew it up—when it was sent to me by the prisoner it was; it was in reply to a note of mine that I sent to him as we had not heard from him—it is in the prisoner's writing (This letter, addressed to Mr. Faithfull, was dated. 3, Lawrence-lane, October. 1st, 1861 and was signed by the prisoner; it stated that he could not possibly leave yesterday afternoon, but that, he inclosed Mr. Frodsham's letter; that Mr. Frodsham wanted him to write to them asking them that, should he fail to keep his engagements, they would allow him a little time.—the guarantee accompanied that letter.

MR. GIFFARD Q. I suppose you opened it when it came? A. Yes—(The guarantee was here read as follows: "St. Helier's, Jersey. 23d September. 1861, Messrs. Crawford, Lindsays and Faithfull. 3, Lawrence-lane.—Gentlemen, I hereby guarantee to you the payment in full of the following promissory notes of Mr. J. Coelho; his promissory note to you for 50l., 30th March. 1862, 50l., 30th September. 1862, 50l., 30th March. 1863, 150l., 30th September. 1863, in all. 300l.—I am yours, Gentlemen, truly. WILLIAM FRODSHAM.")

MR. METCALF Q. When you wrote that, was it placed in an envelope A. I could not speak to whether it was placed in an envelope, or whether it was inclosed in a letter that we sent at the same time to Mr. Frodsham; I should think it was the latter—(MR. METCALFIE. here called for the production of that letter, upon the notice given to the prisoner to produce it; he having produced to the witness the guarantee which accompanied it. THE COURT. was of opinion that that did not show that the prisoner had had the letter, the guarantee might have been sent to him without the letter; that it must be shown that he received the letter and had it in his possession.—I afterwards put myself in communication with Mr. Frodsham.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you present at the settlement of his accounts in September? A. Yes—I might have gone into a longer statement, showing that the 300l. was not the only sum owed to us—I should think it is very likely that, the amount being 200l. odd, one of us gentlemen suggested that it should be 300l. so as to allow for any outstanding goods-none of that was the result of sales which we considered he ought not to have made—I remember a customer named Charles Patreen, at Paris—it is a fact that he was charged in our account 100l. for those goods, including duties and so on, and was only credited to the amount of 60l.—it would require a great deal of explanation to prove that; but in consequence of his affairs not being straight some time previously, we had those goods delivered to us by the prisoner, nominally 100l. worth; but we only considered than worth 60l. or 70l.

Q. But as a matter of fact, so far as the prisoner was concerned, that 100l. that he was debited with, represented duties and a variety of other things, and you only gave him credit for 60l.? A. No; I should sy certainly from recollection this account of Patreen's had nothing to do with the settlement—I think I have a note here in the prisoner's writing which would explain that settlement—Patreen's was not included in that 300l. I think I can say positively; it was in connexion with another settlement made previously—the balance of that previous settlement was not carried into this 300l. account; it was kept perfectly separate.

COURT Q. Were any parts of it due in this way, that he had overvalued goods, and that you had credited him for what you considered to be the proper value of the goods? A. Not in this case at all; in Patreen's case perhaps it might be so, but not in the 300l.

MR. GIFFARD Q. The bills that the prisoner brought to you, did one of your partners take away to Ireland? A. Yes; Mr. Lindsay did—that was before I had received the guarantee.

MR. METCALF Q. Is that 300l. the deficiency stated by the prisoner? A. Agreed with us.

Q. Is that the whole of the deficiency? A. Well, there I must go into a question that is perhaps not relevant to the present one; there would be some goods of course, in various parties' hands, perhaps to 300l. or so with which this of Patreen's is mixed up, so that we have had no opportunity yet of knowing whether his statement is correct or not—these 300l. Are simple non-payments.

THOMAS JONES . I am warehouseman to Messrs. Crawford, Lindsays and Faithfull, and am in the habit of occasionally taking their letters to the post—I remember posting a letter on Saturday, 21st September last, for the prosecutors, addressed to William Frodsham, Esq., St Helier's, Jersey.

WILLIAM FRODSHAM . I am a gentleman of independent property living at Walton-on-the-Naze, in Essex—I have known the prisoner between nine and ten years—the signature to this guarantee is not my writing, nor is it written by my authority—the prisoner did not ask me at all about the guarantee—I was not at St. Helier's, nor in Jersey, at that time—I was at Walton—I have no letters with me.

Cross-examined. Q. Some time ago did you agree to become guarantee for him? A. Yes, I did, to become security for him—I became security and was called upon to pay—the prisoner repaid me to the amount of about 500l.

MR. METCALFE Q. What amount did you pay under the guarantee? A. 660l. or 670l.; 637l. I think I originally paid under it—I had lent him also 220l. besides—that was about three months probably before this September—in September he was about 300l. in my debt—the 500l. Was paid on, I think, 1st October this year; it was on Saturday—on 23d September he was indebted to me rather more than 800l.

COURT Q. Was the prisoner well acquainted with your writing? A. Yes, he must have been—the "Frodsham" in the signature to this guarantee is like my writing; but I am in the habit of signing important documents is full.

MR. GIFFARD Q. Are you also acquainted with the prisoner's writing? A. Yes—this "Win. Frodsham" is certainly not the uudisguised handwriting of the prisoner himself—I must confess that I see no similarity to the word "Frodsham" in the letter to his employers—the formation of the "F" is certainly not the same.

MR. METCALF Q. When you became the former security for him, did you sign it yourself? A. Yes—I never gave him authority to sign my name at all.

MR. GIFFARD. contended that this was not an undertaking for the payment of money under the statute, which, in using the words "warrant, order, or undertaking for the payment of money," contemplated documents of a specific legal character, and not any document which in point of language might fulfil that description; because it had been hitherto held that an order for the payment of money must come from a person having authority; that the mere fact of its appearing on the face of it to be an order for the payment of money would not be sufficient, unless it was in point of law an order, that is, coming from some person having authority to give the order; so also in the case of a warrant, it must be such an instrument as would give the person authority to receive the money; that even if this were a genuine document Mr. frodsham.

could not have been sued, upon it, and that it was therefore not an undertaking for the payment of money under the statute; that in the case of Regina v. Reid (Moody's Crown Cases, vol. ii. page. 62), the whole of the agreement was on the face of the document; but that in this case there was nothing whatever on the document to indicate the consideration; that in Regina v. Stone. 1 Denison, page. 181) the very commencement of the document stated the consideration; it began "Gentlemen, in consideration of your having agreed to sell, &c.;" that it was not likely the statute was meant to extend protection to documents, which could have no effect on the parties however falsely they were made. THE COURT. was of opinion that the objection could not be supported. MR. GIFFARD. further contended that there was no evidence of an intent to defraud; as in no way could Mr. Frodshom have been defrauded. THE COURT. was of opinion that the bills, having been agreed to be taken on certain terms, it was for. MR. GIFFARD. to show that those terms had been dispensed with.

MR. COURT. to. MR. FAITHFUL Q. Were you remaining in London? A. Yes—my partner was going to Ireland and so he took the bills with him—we have an establishment here, but the Spanish business is conducted more especially at Banbridge.

THE COURT. considered that there was evidence to go to the jury.

GUILTY .— Recommended to mercy by the jury and prosecutor in consequence of his long service.—Three Years' Penal Servitude.

OLD COURT—Thursday, October. 24th, 1861.


Before Mr. Baron Martin.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-880
VerdictNot Guilty > directed

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880. CHAMPNEY POWELL (37), was indicted for unlawfully obtaining goods within three months of his bankruptcy, under the false colour and pretence of dealing in the ordinary course of trade.

MESSRS. GIFFARD. and, F. H. LEWIS. conducted the Prosecution.

In this case, the defendant presented a petition to the Court of Bankruptcy stating his inability to meet his engagements, and praying for protection, while proposals to his creditors were being carried into effect, under the authority of the court; but the Commissioner adjourned the proceedings into the public court, and there adjudicated the defendant a bankrupt.

MR. BARON MARTI The petition in this case is not for adjudication but for protection; the petition referred to in the section is a different thing altogether from this.

MR. SERJEANT BALLAMTIN. (with. MR. HONEYMAN. For the defendant) And there is no fiat—there cannot be a fiat when there is no petition for adjudication.

MR. BARON MARTI What does Mr. Giffard say to this?.

MR. GIFFARD Does not your Lordship think that the petition, when it is adjourned into the public court, becomes a petition for adjudication?.

MR. BARON MARTIN No, we are now on a criminal case.

MR. LEWIS I would call your Lordships' attention to the form of the petition.

MR. BARON MARTI That is what I have paid particular attention to, and so far from its being a petition for adjudication, it is a petition to be enabled to do something in order to avoid it—no doubt the Commission, by some other section, has power to adjudicate, but that would not be either by a fiat or petition for adjudication; it would be a legislative statuary power exercised in virtue of some provision.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. The. 23d section gives a power, supposing certain matters not to be to satisfaction of the Commissioner, then to declare the party a bankrupt, and to adjourn the proceedings into the public Court.

MR. GIFFARD. The only question would be whether when the legislature, in the. 53d section uses the phrases "adjudication" and "fiat" it does not contemplate an adjudication in the ordinary sense, and that the petition when the Commissioner adjudicates him a bankrupt, only can make him a bankrupts; therwise the legislature in providing for offences against the law omits one doss of offenders, who may by their very fraud be adjudicated bankrupts; because one of the grounds which authorizes the Commissioner to adjourn the proceedings into the public court, is that there is fraud; and if there is more fraud than ordinary, and the Commissioner therefore adjudges him a bankrupt without the ordinary petition of adjudication, it would be a singular consequence if that very fraud should render him not amenable.

MR. BARON MARTIN . It would be a very improper consequence if it were one, but it is not, it is a defect in the legislation—the legislature clearly have not contemplated this case, if they had they would no doubt have made a law with respect to it; but we have only to deal with what the legislature has done, not with what it has not. The petition for adjudication is a well-known proceeding within the Bankruptcy Act, having a definite and distinct meaning; there is a form for it in the. 53d section, and you cannot give it a different meaning in one part to what it has in another.

MR. GIFFARD. But where the petition for arrangement becomes ultimately the proceeding upon which the trader is adjudicated a bankrupt, in at much at the petition, whatever may be its legal consequences, is for arrangement or bankruptcy, it must be construed, with reference to the. 53d section, as a petition for adjudication.

MR. BARON MARTIN . I do not think that is the natural grammatical meaning of it—it would be a very forced meaning even in a civil case; instead of construing a law, I should be making a law.

MR. LEWIS. The petition prays that whatever is to be done, may be done under the superintendence and control of the Court, and in submission to its jurisdiction—true, it prays only that one of two things may be done, but it is to be done under the control of the Court. The. 23d section is that under which the Commissioner has power to adjourn the proceedings into the public Court.

MR. BARON MARTIN . The petition for adjudication is expressly contemplated; I think in the. 6th and some previous sections, it is stated what the effect of fling the petition shall be.

MR. HONEYMAN. The. 12th section say it shall be in the form of schedule AA in the Act.

MR. BARON MARTIN . I was looking for the petition for adjudication which is mentioned in the Act, and I think it is referred to in the sections I have mentioned; it was a new proceeding, giving the bankrupt himself the power of appearing by petition to be declared a bankrupt—that is what is meant—this Would be a very forced construction indeed, it is not the construction of the Act of Parliament; therefore the man must be acquitted.


There were two other indictments against the prisoner, upon which no evidence was offered.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-881
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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881. SAMUEL CAVE (30) , Unlawfully and knowingly causing to be exposed in a public market 400 lbs. of beet unfit for human food.

MR. POLAND. conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES FISHER . I am an inspector of meat at Newgate-market, and have been so about thirteen years—on 20th September, my attention was called to a hamper in front of Mr. Greatrix's shop in Tylor's market; it contained four quarters of beef, the carcase of a cow—the hamper was marked on one side "G. Dawes," and on the other "Sarum"—it was packed in cloths, in the usual way in which good meat is packed for market, and dressed as a butcher would dress it—I examined it—it was in a very bad state indeed, as bad as it possibly could be in my judgment that arose from disease, and not from decomposition from the weather—if it bad been sent up fresh from Salisbury on the previous day, it could not have got into that condition—it had been fresh killed—any one with common sense could have seen the state it was in, and more particularly a butcher; he would detect it in a moment—it was totally unfit for human food—a salesman named Sims, who was selling at Mr. Greatrix's shop, called my attention to it—Mr. Greatrix's clerk gave me this note (produced,—I afterwards showed the meat to Dr. Letheby and to some of the other inspectors—it was also condemned by Mr. Ald. Salomons.

Prisoner. Q. What part of it was not sound? A. The whole of it—it was all unsound, diseased—I did not see the the internal parts, only the meat.

JAMES NEWMAN . I am an inspector of meat in the City of London—on the morning of 20th September, my attention was called by Fisher to some meat in a hamper—I examined it, and in my judgment it was decidedly unfit for human food—I believe the cow was very old, and in a long state of disease—the ribs were so clean, that we had no data to start from as to what disease it was—the bones would tell us that she was very old—I have been an inspector of meat about seven years—it was fresh killed—I should think it had not been killed more than a day and a night—the weather was warm at the time, but not so close as it has been since—it had not got into that condition from the weather, or from keeping.

Prisoner. Q. You say it was old, how old was it? A. I should think from its appearance twelve or fourteen years.

GEORGE DAWES . I am carrier at Salisbury—I am continually in the habit of sending hampers and parcels by rail to London—on 18th September the prisoner came to me—he asked me to let him have a horse and cart to fetch a bullock or a cow from Mr. Thornton's—that is three or four miles from Salisbury—he told me the animal was alive—I let him have the horse and cart, and in three or four hours he came to my warehouse at Salisbury, he then had a cow in the cart—it was dead—I saw that it had been knocked on the head and stuck—it had been slaughtered in the ordinary way—it was not dressed—he said he should want a hamper and cloths to send the meat to London—this letter (produced,) is my writing—I wrote it at the prisoner's request—he cannot write—he told me the form he wished to have it written in—he pinned it on the cloth—the meat was packed and sent away on 19th September to London, directed to Mr. Greatrix, Newgate Market—the carriage was 8s. 4d.—I am not a butcher.

Prisoner. Q. Did not Mr. Greatrix tell you that at any time you had snch a thing, you were to put a note of it in? A. To put a note of that form in, to sell it, or do what he liked with it—he said that about a fort-night before, if anything came to my place—(Note read. 13th September. If the beef is not good enough for market, please to do what you think proper with it").

MR. BARON MARTI . considered that there was no case to go to the Jury.


21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-882
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

882. WILLIAM BURWOOD BALDRY (38) , Feloniously killing and slaying John Riley on the high seas, within the jurisdiction of the Admiralty of England.

MESSRS. BEASLE. and, ORRIDGE. conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES GILROY . I am a seaman—I have been cook on board the ship, Shantung, for the last three years—she is a British ship—in August last we were on our voyage from China to London—we arrived in St. Katherine's Dock on 18th September—the prisoner was the master of that ship—there was an ordinary seaman on board of the name of John Riley—he died on board on 12th September—at that time the ship was between the Western Islands and the Land's End—Riley complained of being ill at that time, and I believe he was ill—he had been ill for a twelvemonth before, Off and on—I was a shipmate with him on board for two years and three months—I was with him all the time he was on board—he shipped in China—at the latter part of August, I remember some punishment being inflicted upon him—I cannot exactly say the date—the ship was then between the Western Islands and St Helena—Riley complained of being ill, and was lying down in his bed—the captain sent the chief-mate for him—Riley told the chief-mate that he could not go aft, that he could not work—I heard the mate say to him, "Get up, and come on deck"—the mate went aft—I did not hear what he said to the captain—the mate was sent to him a second time, and Riley then went aft to the captain—the mate went down into the cabin, and the captain asked Riley what was the matter with him—the captain was standing on the poop, and Riley was on the main-deck—Riley said he was not well—the captain said be would make him well if he would not go to work, and told him to come up on the poop, and during the time that he was ascending the poop, the captain struck him with a rope several times—it was a piece of lanyard rope, between two and a half and three inches in circumference, and about four and a half feet long—Riley went on to the poop, and the captain beat him for several minutes, still asking him would be go to work—Riley still replied that he was not well, that he was not able to work—the captain said he would beat him till he would work, and daring the time the captain was beating him, Riley fell down on the poop out sang, out for mercy, while the captain was beating him—the captain said be would have no mercy on him, that he would make him work or have his life; so the man gave in, and he said he would go to work—the captain ordered the steward to give him some bath-brick and some oil to clean the brass-work with—while the captain was beating him with the rope he put two knots in it, and the man was down at the time—all this took place on the poop—it was after he had beaten him with the knotted rope that Riley cried out for mercy—the steward gave him some oil and brick, and be used it in cleaning the ship's bell and several other little things that afternoon-be seemed very slow—he did not complain much that afternoon to any of us—he never moved smartly at any time; I did not particularly observe how he moved on this occasion—he continued working at the brass-work the remainder of that day—I saw him next day at work—he was put to tarring by order of the captain—the carpenter was keeping the captain's watch at the time—he was tarring the fore and aft stays—he continued doing that one day—he went below in the afternoon and began to complain about the beating he had got from the captain—he seemed if anything to be worse than he was the day before—he did nothing the next day—he came on deck at 8 o'clock in the morning, but he was not able to work—he did not try—I saw him stripped that afternoon, and his body was black and blue from head to foot—his hands and knuckles were all cut, both his right

and left hand, and bleeding—he asked me if I would wash him, but I did not, another man did it—he went to his birth that afternoon, and was confined to his berth, not exactly till he died—he took to his bed that afternoon, and the next morning part of the crew found out that he had been taking their sugar, and they proposed to turn him out of the forecastle, and they did so—he was agreeable to it, he said, very well, he would go on deck if they wished, and he took his chest on deck and all his clothes and effects, and went and slept under the mocker top-gallant forecastle for two nights after this—that is a place that is only sheltered from the weather at the top—it is close to the bows—the after-part is exposed to the air—he had his bed there and all his effects on deck—he remained there two days—it was fine weather—after that the captain sent for him and put him into his own cabin—he remained there that afternoon, and the next morning he came forward again into the forecastle, into his own berth—the captain did not lend him anything, or show him any attention during this time that I know of—the steward was forward to him several times, asking him if he wanted anything to eat or drink; any arrowroot or rice, or anything of that sort—he did not come on deck again—three of us brought him on deck once after that; we were obliged to lift him up, he could not get up by himself—we kid him on deck—it was a fine warm afternoon—he stunk so that we could not stud it in the forecastle, and we brought him on deck thinking that would take the smell off him—he remained on the deck that afternoon till it became cool, and then we took him down below again, and he remained below after that—we brought him up dead next time—it was between fifteen and twenty days from the time he got the beating till he died—about five or six days previous to his death he sent for the captain—the captain went to him, and he asked the captain if he would ever forgive himself for not putting him ashore at St. Helena as he wished—the captain replied that he had never asked him to go ashore at St. Helena—Riley said he did; and he said, "Captain Baldry, you have given me a beating, and that has killed me; you are my murderer"—the captain said, "You deserved it"—Riley made no reply to that—in about two minutes he spoke again, and asked the captain if he could make a will out—the captain said, "Pooh, nonsense, what do you want with a will?" and he smiled—he asked the captain if he could give him a few sweet biscuits that he bad on board, and some preserved ginger—the captain said that he had not got any; that all the sweet biscuits he had the rats had eaten, and all he bad was for his own child; but it appears that that afternoon he did send him a few biscuits, at least the steward took some forward to him—he told him he might have some arrowroot, or sago rice, and the steward gave him some—he also sent him some brandy and water, am an old jacket, and a pair of drawers, as he complained of belief cold in the feet—during the latter part of his life he was not able to eat at all—he would drink any amount of water—he suffered from diarrhoea, or something that appeared to be similar to that—he was buried on the 13th low—I assisted in putting him overboard.

Cross-examined by. MR. SERJEANT BALL AN TINE. Q. Was there any dysentery on board the vessel? A. Yes; there were two men very bad with it—I could not say that it was that that Riley died of—for two or three days at a stretch he would eat and drink, and it would go through him as fast as he ate and drank it—that was the last few days of his death—(at other times his bowels would not net at all)—I believe that is one of the symptoms of dysentery—he did not complain of pain, only in the feet—he wanted warm

water the last few days of his life—I should say it was about thirteen days before Ins death that he was turned out of the forecastle to sleep on deck—he remained out for two nights—there is an expression on board ship called being "moonblind"—I do not know what it is—Riley complained of being moonblind, but that was three months before this—I do not know that the steward complained of his stealing everything he could lay his fingers on—he did not do so to me—the forecastle was the proper place for him to sleep in—it was not blowing hard at the time he was turned out, it was fine weather—we were then between St. Thomas's island and the Land's End—I think it was Simmonds who complained of his stealing—I cannot say that all the men insisted on his going on deck, most of them did—they did not insist—he said if they did not like him he would go on deck—it was not after he had been on deck that his victuals passed through him as I have described; not till after the captain had taken him into his cabin, and we had taken him back into the forecastle again, two or three days before his death—he had never been turned out of the forecastle before for being so dirty—he was a dirty man, taking all in all, all through toe voyage—he had very dirty habits with him—he would not wash himself—he washed himself about once a fortnight, and the like of that—I should say he was a drunkard—I have seen him several times come on board intoxicated—I never called him a skulker—sometimes we drew the conclusion that he was a skulker, and sometimes we said the opposite—sometimes we thought he was skulking, and sometimes that he really had something the matter with him—in China I complained to the captain that he was a skulker, and not doing his work—that was eighteen months previous to his death—the first time I spoke to the captain about him, I said, "He complains of being ill, and wants to see a doctor; but there is no more the matter with him than there is with me"—he was not then as apparently ill at he was latterly—he said he was ill—for the last few months he was very much inclined to avoid work if he could—not so much formerly as he was for the last four months—I cannot say that he always avoided his work if be could—sometimes he would work for a month or six weeks, and never complain; at other times he would complain—I never saw him put his fingers down his throat to make it appear that he was sick—I never told the captain so—I only spoke to the captain once about him—I don't know that he has bought drink with the boots and things that the captain has given him—on one occasion he had a pair of shoes—they were too small for him—that was in China, eighteen or nineteen months previous to his death, and he traded those boots away for spirits with one of the China boats coming alongside; that is all I know about his trading his clothes away for liquor—he has gone on shore several times, and come hack without his jacket or boots; but I never saw him sell them—his clothes were gone and he had a good deal of liquor in his body—the ship came up the river to St Katherine's dock—I came ashore on thel 9th—the crew consisted of nine, including myself—I cannot say whether myself and two others are all the crew remaining in this country at present—one man went to the hospital—I cannot say when a complaint was first made against the captain; the first time I made a complaint was at the shipping office, on 26th or 27th—I did not make a complaint—three other men had made a complaint before me—Peter McEvoy, and Samuel Johnson were two of them, they are not here; and Thomas Simmonds, and William Fensom, they are here—the captain never refused to pay our wages that I know of—we took out out a summons to compel him to pay, but he never refused—he,

said he was quite willing to pay if his owners were agreeable to advance the money—we had to take out the summons against him; there had been a complaint before that—we took out the summons on the Friday, and the case did not come on till the ensuing Monday, and during those three days, it appears that some of the men stated the case at the Sailors' Home, and they forwarded a complaint to the Seamen's registry, and they communicated it to the Board of Trade—I was not with them at that time—the complaint was not made after the summons—I am quite sure that it was not so much as five weeks after the beating that the deceased died—I am sure it was not before the 14th August that the beating occurred—there was only one mate from St. Helena—I have seen him here to-day—I saw him rope's-end the deceased before his death; I should say it was five or six weeks previous to his death, I cannot say exactly—I did not see him rope's-end him after the captain had done so—I cannot swear that.

MR. BEASLEY. Q. About what time did you sail from China? A. I can not say exactly—the last place at which the deceased went ashore was Batavia; I went with him—he did not go ashore at St. Helena—St Helena was the next place after Batavia that we put in at—we were about four months going from Batavia to St. Helena, and from St. Helena till when the beating took place, was about thirty-five or forty days—that was the last beating the man got on board the ship—he was ashore at Batavia, and saw a doctor there, that was the last place—I did not hear him ask to go ashore at St Helena; I heard him talk about it in the forecastle—he had been on board the ship two years and three months and some odd days under the same captain—we arrived at St Katharine's dock on the Wednesday—I saw the captain on the Friday following, and he told me if it was possible he would pay us off on Saturday—he left 8l. on board the ship for me till we were paid off; I went and received that—I saw the chief mate and the captain's wife, and asked them if they could tell me what time I should get paid off—it was the Friday week after we arrived in London that the summons was taken out—I had spoken to the captain about it before—he knew we were going to take out a summons, he advised us to do it—I said to him, "It is a strange thing you cannot settle with us now"—and he said, "I cannot help it; if you like to sue me for your wages, do so; but go to the owner"—I said, "I engaged under you, and I look to you for my wages"—he. said, "Well, I cannot help it, you had better sue me, and that will bring things to a conclusion very shortly"—there was no dispute between us as to what was due to me—he made a alight mistake of six days, that was nothing to speak of, and he said he would make it all right—I was paid for those six days—I was paid the whole amount—I first mentioned about the beating at the Sailors' Home.

THOMAS SIMMONDS . I am a seaman on board the Shantung.—the prisoner was the captain—I saw him flog Riley one day with a rope—at that time, I think the ship was near the Western Islands—it was somewhere about 24th August I think—Riley was a white man—I heard the captain tell him to go aft and get some rags from the steward and clean the brass work—Riley said he was not able—the captain said to him, "Go off and get some rag and clean the brass work"—Riley again said he was not able—the captain then called him up the poop, and as he was getting up the poop-ladder, he struck him with the end of the port-main royal-sheet—it was a piece of rope about two inches thick, a little stouter than my thumb—it was a piece of the running gear—when he struck him he fell down on the poop—there was a piece of old lanyard-rope standing by, about two and a quarter or two and a half inches

and the captain took up that and struck him with it—this (produced,) is some of it—he commenced striking him with that rope—Riley sung out for mercy—the captain said, "I will give you no mercy; I will either have you at work, or I will have your life"—was then standing at the wheel—one of the strands has been taken from this rope—that was done on board the ship—put it in my bunk, and have brought it here to-day—the captain struck him more than once—had to stay two hours at the wheel, and as soon as the captain had done flogging him, the captain himself struck four bells, and I was relieved from the wheel—was about ten yards from the captain at the time he was beating the man—saw Riley' shack when he was stripped—he had stripes right across his shoulders on both sides, and right in the middle of his back—saw him after he was dead, and I saw him before—we washed him before he died, when he was very ill, and put some clean clothes on him—his back was blue then—after he had been beaten on this day he went to his work, and worked I suppose for about two hours—he was not able to do any work after that—he was bid from the time he joined the snip, with dysentery—joined in Batavia—he was ill all the time I was in the ship, which was five months—shortly before his death, I heard him call the captain to him—was in the fore-castle the time the captain came down—he asked the captain to make him out a will for him—the captain told him no, and as he was going up the forecastle-ladder he said to him, "Pooh! what do you want with a will made out?"—Riley said, "Captain Baldry, you are the cause of my death," and the captain went; he said he would soon get well, he would soon get over it—this is a piece of the rope the captain used—do not know who took the strand out—t was a piece about four feet long.

Cross-examined. Q. How long after the rope's-ending was it that Riley died? A. As near as I can judge, Riley lived about fifteen days—i will not swear he did not live as long as four weeks; I cannot tell, I did not keep an account of the time—cannot say one way or the other—the nearest I can judge is about fifteen days—newer saw the mate rope's-end him to my knowledge—was the man that turned him out of the forecastle—t wan for stealing sugar from one of the able seamen—caught him at it—t was in the morning—the sugar was in one of the banks—was sitting close to him at the time—saw him reach his hand out and take a spoonful out of the man's sugar, and I scolded him about it, and he said it was not any of mine—we had to put him out of the forecastle—we would not dean the forecastle for him—he would not clean it out—he was ill all the time, but he used to work sometimes—when he was not very bad he would work—he was turned out of the forecastle for stealing a spoonful of sugar, and for being dirty, both; if a man steals a spoonful of sugar he will steal anything—he lay on deck a week, I suppose.

MR. BEASLEY. Q. When he was taken out of the forecastle, where was to put? A. We did not put him anywhere—he found his own berth under the top-gallant forecastle—there was no cover over the top of it; it is a small place—t is covered over at the top—t is right at the bows of the ship—t extends across the bows and over the bowsprit—a man could creep under that very well—we had never turned him out of the forecastle before.

WILLIAM FENSOM . I was steward on board the Shantung, in this voyage—the deceased was a seaman on board—remember the captain beating him several times before we came to St. Helena—when we were at St Helena, as the captain was going ashore, I heard Riley ask him if he would Allow him to go ashore and see a medical man to get some medicine; the

captain said, "Pooh, nonsense, I will give you all the medicine you require when I get you to sea"—Riley had been poorly a long time, and he looked very ill then; as far as my judgment went he appeared unwell—he was not allowed to go ashore—I remember something taking place between him and the captain after leaving St. Helena on the way home, somewhere at the latter end of August—the chief officer came down into the cabin and told the captain that the man was unfit for work—I was in the cabin—told the captain said, "Oh, nonsense, pooh! give him a rope's-ending and he will work; it is only an old dodge of his, he will work"—the chief officer said, "No, I cannot rope's-end him, I shall get into trouble if I do when I get home"—the captain said, "Then send him aft to to me"—with that the chief officer went on deck, and the captain went up a minute, or half a minute after him—I went on deck directly after the captain, and I saw Riley coming aft, as I was going forward to the galley on the port side of the deck, and as he went up the ladder, I saw the captain strike him with the rope three or four times, with a piece of the running gear of the main-royal, and after he got up on the poop, he picked up another piece of rope abort two and a half inches—this is the rope; but that is not the rope he struck him with when he was coming up the ladder; this is part of the royal clewlines—I was standing by the galley at the time, with the remainder of the ship's company, for I should say four minutes, while the captain was beating him, and he crying out for mercy—he cried out a great many times—I then went aft, he was still beating him, when I went on the poop; and he was crying out for mercy, would no one come and save him from being murdered—the captain said, "There is no mercy for you; I will either have your work, or I will have your life"—he was standing at this time—I saw him down on the deck afterwards, after the captain had put the over-hand knob in the rope—I saw the captain put those knots in the rope—I went to the companion and stood looking at him a second or two, and then I went down into the cabin, and when I came up he was still beating him; he was still standing up then—when I got forwards to the galley I saw him down on the deck, and the captain still beating him—I did not see him fall; I then came aft again—I left him lying on the deck, and the captain still beating him—then I believe Riley said he would give in and clean the brass-work—I did not hear him say so—the captain sent me for the bath-brick and oil for Riley to clean it, and when I got on deck again, Riley was sitting on one of the guns on the poop—I did not give it him, I put it on the hen-coop, and he went to work with it, cleaning the brass-work—I did not take much notice of the state in which he was at that time; he appeared to be very ill and very sore about his bones, which he must have been I know from the severe beating he got from the captain—I saw him cleaning the brass-work afterwards, but I did not see him again that day-how long he was cleaning the brass-work I do not know—I do not know whether it was that day or the next day that I saw him lying forward the windlass—I believe he was set to tarring—I saw him next day with the w tar-pot or something in his hand, but what he was going to do with it I do not know—I did not see him do any work after that tarring; I did not see him again for some days—the first time I saw him afterwards was in the captain's cabin—the captain ordered me to clear a berth out for him, and said he would take him down into the cabin—I did so—he told me to go and fetch his things aft—I did not—they were brought aft by some one; whether it was the chief officer or not I cannot say—he slept in the cabin that night—next morning I went down into the cabin, and saw Riley

coming out of my pantry with a sugar-basin in his band—asked him what he did in there—he said he was going to put a little sugar in his tea—i said, "Why not ask roe for it, and I would give it you"—then went and made it known to the captain, that he was taking the sugar out of the pantry, and the captain said, "We will turn him out of the cabin," and he was turned out there and then, or half au Hour after that—he was up and down three or four times in the night—was watching him; I had a berth next to him—do not think he slept all night—he went back to the forecastle—that was the first place I saw him in afterwards—think that was seven or eight days after this occurrence, or something like that; I could not say within a day or two—he was getting much worse—he asked for Moe brandy—'went aft and said to the captain, "Riley wants some brandy"—he said, "That is the only thing that will do him good"—said, "I do not think it is good for him, you had better give him a little wine"—he amid, "No, the d—d rascal shall not have wine"—gave him a little weak brandy and water by the captain's orders—saw the man a few hours before be died—saw his body at that time—t was black from the head to the foot—he was lying naked in his bed—they had been washing him, and had not covered his clothes over him, and I could not see three fingers' breadth bat was black and blue from the beating he had had with the rope—he was lying on his right side—after seeing the man's state, I felt very timid—i went aft and said to the captain, "If you have got a drop of wine, out of charity give it to that poor man, he won't lire twenty-four hours"—he said, "Pooh, nonsense! you have said that so many times before, steward"—he would give me no answer whether I should give him wine or not—went out, and in a few minutes he called me in' and told me to give him some wine, and I gave him a little—put my right arm round his neck, and held it up while I poured it down his throat—he had not strength to swallow it—some went down Jus throat, and some down the sides of his mouth—i aid then that the roan would not live till to-morrow morning—this was between 2 or 3 o'clock in the afternoon—between 6 and 7 o'clock, the chief officer came down and called the captain out of the after cabin, and said the man was dead—the captain came into the fore cabin and said, "What had we better do with him?" and the mate said, "We had better get him on deck, wrap him up in a tarpaulin and bury him to-morrow morning—after I came home I summoned the captain for wages—t was I who made the statement of this matter at the Sailors' Home—made a statement first to the owner—that was before the summons—he told us to meet him next morning at 10 o'clock, and he would take us to the Board of Trade, and make it come to light—he said we must go to the Sailors' Home first, and we went there.

Cross-examined. Q. Am I to understand then that this complaint against the captain was upon the suggestion of the owner? A. No; I lodged a complaint to the owner—said I wished to pat it in force about this man being killed coming home—had spoken to several persons about where I was to go to first, and they could not tell me, and I spoke to the owner—he told me that it was vary proper that it should be brought to light—have heard that there has been a quarrel between the owner and the captain, but that does not concern me—I know nothing about their affairs—am not in the service of the owner now; I left last week—was not in the service when I was at the police-court—did not belong to the ship at that time—worked on board the ship up to Saturday night last—have been here every day since—for the last two days before Riley's death, the captain

ordered me to give him everything that he required, hot not wine—he would not allow me to give him wine—I asked for wine, and he would not give it me—I believe the captain had him down into his own cabin in consequence of the state of his health—I don't know that he did—I was not present at the time he was tamed out of the forecastle; I heard of it—I do not know that he was turned out—I saw him lying on the deck—I should think that was a very improper place for him to be in, after the beating he had got; sometimes in warm weather it is more agreeable to sleep on deck than it is below—I do not know whether it is a proper place for him to have been in; I cannot say—the captain asked me to go and fetch his clothes into his cabin—I fancied he was not in very good healt hat the time—I had not seen his state at that time—I did not see his state until the day before he died—I did not notice anything the matter with him till the day he died—I did not see the bruises—I saw he was very poorly, and that he was getting worse every day—I made a complaint to the captain about his stealing the sugar—it was my duty to do so, when I saw him taking things—I said it would not be safe for the man to be going into the pantry and taking things out—the captain had him removed, not at my complaint—I lodged a complaint to the captain—what he was removed for I do not know—I think he was removed about half an hour after my complaint—how can I swear as to what cause the captain might have to turn him out—I do not know that that was the cause—I have complained of him over and over again; not for taking things out of the cabin, because he never was there—I have said I believed he was not so ill as he seemed—that was a long time before we came to St Helena—I had been on board the ship seven months and some days.

MR. BEASLEY. Q. Your berth was not in the forecastle, was it? A. No; in the cabin—I did not know much of what went on in the forecastle—I had the stores under my care, as steward I am responsible for them.

Witness for the Defence.

GEORGE WEDGE . I was mate of this vessel—I joined at Batavia, and worked from thence home—I remember Riley quite well—he was always a dirty, slovenly fellow in his habits—he was not ashore at all while I was with the vessel—I had, at times, reason to complain of his not working—I remember the time when the captain rope's-ended him—up to that time I thought that there was something like skulking about him most part of the time—I was not present when the rope's-end was applied—I went forward to know the reason that the man was not up at his work on this occasion, and he told me he was sick—I told the captain what he told me—that was in the beginning of August—I cannot say the day—I do not recollect the date—I saw the man at his work after that, for about a week as nearly as I can recollect—I had occasion to find fault with him after that, and I certainly did strike him once or twice, with the rope's-end, my self. (MR. BARON MARTI. informed the witness that he was not compelled to give evidence which might criminate himself.) I have nothing more to say in that case—I saw the man stripped after the captain had rope's-ended him on this occasion—it was either the third or fourth day after—I cannot say which—there was a slight mark or two upon his back, but nothing more than a schoolboy might have after the chastisement of a master—I have had opportunities of observing the conduct of the captain to him—he was in no ways harsh to the man—he had him into his cabin because, he thought he would be better there than in the forecastle—that was after he was turned out of the forecastle—he was lying on the deck—he did not remain in the captain's cabin

because he could not keep his fingers to himself—he walked into the pantry and, I believe, helped himself to sugar, and bread and butter, and different things—that wan the charge that was made—while he was ill things were supplied to him by the captain, as far as my knowledge extends—I have no fault to find with the captain in any respect—he was a very mild man, too easy; in fact, he was lenient—he was not a hard or a harsh man, or an ill tempered man; far from it—his conduct was kind and considerate to the crew in general—I never knew him rope's-end any other man.

Cross-examined by. MR. BEASLEY Q. You joined at Batavia, I under-stand? A. Yes; there was a second-mate until we arrived at St. Helena, and after that I was the only mate—I observed that this man was dirty and lazy shortly after I joined the ship—he did not make any complaint to me of being ill then—I did not know that he had been ashore at Batavia to see a doctor—he was suffering from dysentery and diarrhoea—after leaving St. Helena he complained slightly at times, but nothing to speak of; nothing out of the way—he did his work worse then than he did when he first came on board—I saw him stripped three or four days after this affair, because I got him to strip himself to wash himself, he was so filthily dirty—that was the only reason I had—I was not surprised to see any bruises upon him—I did not take much notice of it—he certainly was not black all over, from head to foot—I can swear that—I may have seen plenty of rope like this on board—I never saw one of this kind used for rope's-ending a man—I did not use such a thing as that; not so thick—I saw the bruises; they were not such bruises as this rope would produce—they might be produced by a rope about the size of the top of my little finger—they were very slight indeed.

MR. METCALF Q. Was the flesh cut at all? A. Not at all.

Several witnesses deposed to the good character of the prisoner for humanity And kindness.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

NEW COURT—Thursday, October. 24th, 1861.


For the case of George Clift and Frederick Clayton Clift, tried this day, see Surrey Cases.

THIRD COURT—Thursday, October. 24th, 1861.

Before Mr. Recorder.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-883
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

883. JOHN BRANDON (27), and CHARLES GOODAL (44) , Stealing 2 bottles of brandy, the property of Blandford Neighbour, and others, the masters of Brandon. Second Count, against Goodall, for receiving the same.

MR. ORRIDG. conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM SMIT . I am a detective officer of the City of London police—on Saturday, 28th September, I saw Goodall in Wenlock-street, Hoxton, where he lives—I had seen him on the Thursday evening previous, in company with Brandon, at a public-house at the end of King-street, Smith-field, the same that I saw them go into on the Saturday morning—I followed Goodall from Wenlock-street on the Saturday morning, about half-past 7 o'clock—he went from Wenlock-street up to West-street, Smithfield—he

went down West-street into St. John's-court to Mr. Neighbour's stables—they are wine merchants, carrying on business in King-street, and the stables lie at the back of their premises—before he went into the stables I noticed that his pockets were very light, not at all bulky—he remained in the stables, I should think, about six or seven minutes; he and Brandon then came out of the stable together, and turned up Fox-and-Knot-court into King-street—there is an entrance from King-street through into West-street—they went up King-street towards the public-house where I had seen them together on the Thursday evening—before they went into the public-house I noticed that both Goodall's pockets were very bulky—they remained in the public-house about two or three minutes—they then came out and separated, after about two minutes conversation together; Goodall turning again down King-street, and Brandon going down West-street towards the stables—I followed Goodall into Farringdon Market, and from there to Newgate-street—when at the end of Queen's-head-passage, Newgate-street, I felt his pockets, and got in front of him, and asked him what he had got there, putting my hand at his sides—his coat was open, and the pockets were inside—I said I was an officer—there was a little commotion at the time—crowd began to collect—I took him by the arm and took him across into King Edward-street—I said, "I am detective-officer, and shall take you into custody for receiving these two bottles from Mr. Neighbour's servant "—he said, D----n it; you are not going to take me for a little drop of brandy"—I had bold of him—he begged of me not to take hold of him, for he would not run away—he then put his hands in his pockets and walked by my side—we proceeded a little farther on the way to the station, when he suddenly turned from me, put his hands into his pocket, held the two brandy bottles up and dashed them to the ground, saying, "There you b----, you shan't have the brandy"—these (produced,) are some of the pieces of the bottles—one was green and the other white—I picked up some of the pieces and the corks, and took them to the station—Pavitt took Brandon in custody, but I gave him the directions to do so—on the remand of Goodall at Guildhall, Brandon was at the station awaiting my arrival to charge him—I there told him everything that had occurred about Goodall, and foe said, "All right master; I have been led into this by Goodall and Mahogany".—Makogany, is the nickname of a man named Simpkins, who was drinking with them on the Thursday evening when I first saw them together—I asked Brandon how long he had known Goodall, and he said he had known him three months.

Cross-examined by. MR. BESLE. (for. BRANDON.). Q. Whereabouts was Brandon when this conversation took place? A. In the station, while the charge was being taken—I ordered Pavitt to apprehend him, and said that I would charge him when I returned from Guildhall after the examination of Goodall—he was in the charge-room awaiting my arrival—there was a station-sergeant to take the charge, but Pavitt did not know what to charge him with—no charge had been entered in the book at that time—Pavitt was also there awaiting my arrival—it was about 8 o'clock, as near as I can tell when I got to the stables—I only saw Goodall enter the stables, not Brandon, but I saw them both come out—Brandon stood inside the door—I saw him—the stable is in one street, and Messrs. Neighbour's counting-house in another—I stood in Fox-and-knot-court—if Brandon had come round the street and entered the stables after Goodall I should have seen him, but he did not come round—I was not instructed to watch Brandon—I was watching his companion, Mahogany, and through watching that man this case turned up—I suspected Brandon then of being mixed up with that

man in some dishonest purpose—I had seen Brandon many times before this Thursday night with that man, hut never before with Goodall, to my knowledge—before I made any observation to him I said, as near as I can recollect, Before I say anything to you, you will please yourself whether you answer me or not; if requisite I shall mention it at your trial before the Magistraten—I mentioned to the Magistrate that I had cautioned him—I cannot say that I mentioned it to any one else—I dare say the sergeant at the station heard me say it—he is not here to-day—I narrated all that occurred on that morning and on the Thursday evening previous, and Brandon's reply was that it was all right—my motive in narrating it was that he should hear the charge against him—I know that Pavitt had previously told him the charge—my motive was to tell him, as I was the only person present who saw what occurred, and could make the charge against him for stealing the bottles of brandy—I thought it my duty to tell him—it was not with a view to elicit anything, but what I thought was my duty—I was not present when Pavitt told him, nor did I know what Pavitt had told him.

Crosse-examined by. MR. KEMP. (for. GOODALL.) Q. Who are the prosecutors in this case? There are two or three gentlemen prosecuting the case—I believe Mr. Neighbour is concerned in it as much as the others—Mr. Devonshire, one of the partners in their firm, is aware what steps are being takes in the affair—I was about ten yards, or twenty sometimes, behind Goodall when I followed him—when I first went up to him I said, "What have you got there?"—he did not then make a reply, he was staggered; he did when we got into King Edward-street—he did not tell me, before I put my hands to his pockets, that he had got some brandy there, but he did before I took it out—I have examined the remains of these bottles—I find no trace of any marks, nor of any labels—there are no marks upon these corks—they are ordinary sample bottles—I ascertained, on the morning tbat I went to search Goodall's place, that he lets lodgings.

MR. ORBIDGE Q. In what employment is Goodall? A. I ascertained, after he was in custody, that he was employed in Mr. Gardiner's, a stationer, in the neighbourhood of Newgate-street; not a spirit-dealer in any way.

COURT Q. Mahogany did not lodge at Goodall's? A. No—I saw him drive up in a trap to Goodall's premises, in Wenlock-street, on the Saturday previous—I have seen Goodall and Mahogany, together.

GEOBGE PAVITT . (City-policeman. 227). I took Brandon into custody on this Saturday morning—I told him I was going to take him in custody for stealing two bottles of brandy, and giving it to a man named Goodall—I then went with him into his master's counting-house—he paid his accounts to his master for the journey that he had been, and said to his master, "This man is going to take me into custody for stealing brandy"—his master said, "Very well, I can't help that, you must go"—he then said, "I hope you will look over it"—his master said he could not do that.

Cross-examined by. MR. BESLEY Q. When you told Brandon that he was charged with stealing bottles of brandy, which he had given to a man named Goodall, did not he say something? A. He said, "I don't know about that—after I took him to the station-house I searched him, and found on him a threepenny-piece—he gave me an address, which was quite correct—I also went with Smith to Hoxton—I was not at the stable at all; I did not see that transaction—it was about half-past 12 o'clock that I went to Mr. Neighbour's premises—I was instructed by Smith to take Brandon intocustody—I was at the station at half-past 8 o'clock—I did not come from Hoxton

with Smith—I was at Hoxton about 7 o'clock in the morning—we then followed Goodall up as far as Bath-street, City-rood, and there I lost sight of Smith and Goodall—I went to the station, and Smith had got Goodall in custody—I charged Brandon at Mr. Neighbour's place, and then took him to the station—Sergeant Oram, I think, was on duty—Smith was not then, he was gone up to the police-court with Goodall—the charge had not been entered when he returned from the police-court—I did not say that it bad—it was not entered till Smith returned from the police-court—I stated to the sergeant on duty what the charge was—when Smith came back it was entered—Smith charged him with stealing the brandy—it was about three-quarters of an hour before that I had told Brandon the charge, at Mr. Neighbour's—Smith stated the charge to the sergeant, and the sergeant entered it—Brandon and the sergeant were within three or four yards of each other—Smith did not say, first to Brandon and then to the sergeant, what the charge was; he only said it once—Brandon then said that he had been led into it.

JAMES BURGESS . I am warehouseman, in the employment of Blandford Neighbour, wine-merchant, of King-street, Snow-hill—Brandon was in employment—I know nothing at all of Goodall—the samples are kept in a sample-room in the counting-house—that is not near the stable—Brandon was employed about there occasionally—he came into the counting-house that morning, but not where the samples are kept—I was there by about half-past 7 o'clock—I did not see him go into the sample-room at all that morning—our sample bottles are made of white glass as well as green—this glass is part of a green one, the metal is exactly the same—there was on sample bottle missing the following morning—I can only speak with certainty to one—I have never missed any before—we keep no account of the samplebottles, so that I do not know what there are—the one that I missed was the same as the rest, only it was one with a particular mark on a label—I cannot remember what colour that bottle was—Brandon had no authority to take sample bottles of brandy away.

Cross-examined by. MR. BESLEY Q. How long has Brandon been in the employment of Messrs. Neighbour? A. Six years, or more—during that time his general character for honesty has always been noticed to be good—there are three partners in the firm, Neighbour, Pheysey, and Devonshire—Mr. Devonshire is here—the other two partners are not here—I cannot positively swear that these fragments are any port of bottles that were ever in Neigh hour's premises—I say they are the same metals—the bottles all have marks on them; paper pasted on—there were above 200, I dare say, in the counting-house—I am very often in the counting-house myself—there is another clerk there—there is some one in the counting-house all day long to attend to the business—Brandon has on duty in connexion with the counting house—we are always at the premises at half-past 7 o'clock—Brandon was not there then on this morning—he came about 8 o'clock, as near as could be—he merely stopped a few minutes to speak to the foreman—I saw him speak to the foreman—that was in the counting-house—he left the counting-house then and went part of the way back to the warehouse, and took his cross-bar belonging to the cart, and then walked up the street—that was about 8 o'clock, or ten minutes past—these sample bottles come from the Docks—Brandon was the person who used to bring them to us from the Docks.

Cross-examined by. MR. KEMP Q. These are ordinary sample bottles, are they not? A. Yes—they are used down at the Docks—I do not find traces

of any fragments of labels—we never mark our corks at all—we sell our goods by sample—we keep the samples for months—supposing we get a large accumulation, Mr. Neighbour has to do with that—I could not exactly tell you the worth of the brandy in these samples, not more than a shilling.

MR. ORRIDGE Q. Brandon came to the stable at 7 o'clock in the morning? A. Sometimes earlier—it was not till 8 o'clock this morning that I saw him.

COURT Q. Who opens the counting-house? A. The foreman; at half-past 7.

MR. KEM. called.

THOMAS GARDINER . I am a wholesale stationer—Goodall has been with us in our establishment fifteen years, and we had a seven years' character previous to taking him—his character during that time has been perfectly good in all respects for honesty and general good conduct—I have not a blemish to find with him—he was employed, with others, from 7 o'clock in the morning till 8 o'clock at night.

Cross-examined by. MR. ORRIDGE Q. From 7 o'clock in the morning? A. Yes, and sometimes 8 o'clock—I do not remember the Friday night before this affair; I know nothing at all about the particulars—he did not ask me on that Friday night for half an hour the next morning—his time of coming to work was from 7 to 8.

COURT to. AMES BURGESS Q. Were there any empty sample bottles kept about? A. Yes; we keep lots of empty sample bottles about the place—there are opportunities for Brandon to fill sample bottles if he had them—we keep casks on our premises—he would have access to where they were kept, but we are mostly about at the same time—I do not think it could be done unless it was in concert with other persons.

BRANDON— GUILTY .—Recommended to mercy by the prosecutor.— Confined Six Months..

GOODAL— GUILTY . on the second count.—Four Years' Penal Servitude. The officer stated that a great quantity of stolen property was found at Goodalls, and that he believed he and the other man had led Brandon into this.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-884
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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884. JOHN SMITH (17) , Rape on Elizabeth Hall.

MR. TAYLOR. conducted the Prosecution. MR. PAR. the Defence.


FOURTH COURT—Thursday, October. 24th, 1861.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-885
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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885. ADOLPHE SCHOERLE (28) , Stealing, on 12th October, 100 pieces of metal, and 100 metal models, the property of Richard Matthay, his master.

MESSRS. SLEIGH. and, ROWDEN. conducted the Prosecution.

RICHARD MATTHAY . (Through an interpreter.) I live at 12, Percy-street, Tottenham-court-road, and am a jeweller—the prisoner was first in my employ as a workman three years ago—he last year went to the Brazils, and returned about two or three months ago—he then came again into my employ—I paid his voyage for him—he stayed there till last Saturday week, when he went away without saying anything to me—after he had gone I missed a great many things, but principally models, some of which were found upon him—these models are mine (produced,—I cannot fix the date

particularly when I saw them last safe, but I believe I saw them last on Friday week, the day before the prisoner left—it is impossible to say what is the value of the property that was lost, having had great confidence in the prisoner—I gave the value as 10l.—I meant by that that they would cost me that for making them—the work upon them is worth 10l.—I had never made the prisoner a present of those models—on Monday night he said in my presence, before other people, that he had taken three which he would bring back—he said I had made him a present of them, but he would bring them back—that was on the Monday after the Saturday he left—I never authorised him to take them away from my shop.

Cross-examined by. MR. BEST. (with. MR. PATER.) Q. How long have you been in England? A. Ten years—I can speak some English—I understand English sufficiently to carry on my business, but not in a court of justice—I did not send for the prisoner back again from the Brazils—he wrote a letter to me saying there was no work there, and asking me to send him money to come back, and I did so—after he came back on the second occasion my business certainly went rather worse than better—I am a working jeweller—I did not allow the prisoner to make models for himself during the time he was in my employ—I know that he made some for me—I do not know whether he made models for himself—the models he made he took away with him, and they were found in his pocket—those produced are models to make bracelets from—several of those patterns nobody else has—they are quite new—they have been made since the prisoner returned—I sold my business on the very day the prisoner left me, and sold the prisoner as well—there was no agreement with the prisoner—I only asked him if he would like to stop with me still, or with the new comers—on the Monday after the Saturday he left I asked him if he would stay, and said I would pay him the week, but on the Saturday he had taken away his own tools and also some of mine—I charged him with taking them—these are them (produced,—they were made by the prisoner—I bought them of kin, and perfected them, and he took them away—my name is not on them—I believe there are no such other tools used in the trade anywhere—it is quite a new model—this pattern is made with this tool—only a jeweller can understand it—I missed these things on the Saturday—I invited the prisoner to supper with me that evening, afterwards—I heard on Monday that he was at work for Mr. Trout's, opposite—I opened a letter addressed to the prisoner at my place, in the presence of some witnesses, because I knew where it came from—I knew it contained an order—I think it was after I had opened that letter, and seen that it was a foreign order, that I gave him in custody—I went to Mr. Trout's after the prisoner was in custody, to caution him—two bracelets were found on the prisoner when he was taken into custody—I did not ask Mr. Trout to say that the gold on those bracelets was his—he told me that he had given the gold to the prisoner for the bracelets—I never asked Mr. Trout to swear that the gold on the bracelets was his—I never said so—I told him I had lost a great deal of gold, but I did not say that it was mine—it is customary to ask a workman when he comes into the service, "Have you got anything new?"—the prisoner did not manage the whole of my business—I managed my own business, but he was my first workman.

MR. ROWDEN Q. When you parted with your business you did not authorize the prisoner to take any of your models? A. No.

COURT Q. You asked the prisoner, as I understand, whether he would go into the service of the new people; what answer did he make? A. He

said he would remain, but he could not say how long, but on the Monday he was still in my employ—the business was not transferred till the following Wednesday—models were not stock in trade—I intended to give over the things on the Monday, but found they were gone—the document or deed for transferring the business was signed on the Saturday—the prisoner knew that the business was being transferred, and he told me he would deliver all the things.

JOSEPH LAMBERT . (Policeman, E. 68). In consequence of information I received I went after the prisoner—I met him in Newman-street, Oxford-street, and charged him with stealing models from his master—that was last Friday—his master was not close enough to hear when I charged him—I asked him if he had any models about him—he said, "Yes; four or five, which Mr. Matthay gave me"—I then took him to the police-station, and searched him, and found 136 models and 2 bracelets—I asked him who they belonged to, and he said, "All the property belongs to me."

GEORGE GA . I live at 185, College-street, Camden-town—I was employed by Mr. Matthay as a workman—I know these models—they are Mr. Matthay's property—to the best of my belief these are also his property; I cannot swear to them—I swear positively to fifteen.

MR. BEST. called.

GODFREY TROUTS . (Through an interpreter.) I am a jeweler—in consequence of a message that was left at my house on 19th October, I called upon Mr. Matthay—he had told me the day before ho wanted to speak to me—he told me to say that the gold which had been found in the prisoner's pocket did not belong to me; then he would stand before the Court apparently as haying stolen it from Mr. Matthay—these bracelets are mine—I bought the gold, and I have the invoice of it in my pocket—I said, at the Court I would tell the truth, and nothing but the truth; the pure truth—the prisoner came into my employ, and I confided to him everything, gold and everything—I shall be willing to take him into my employment again if he is acquitted—of course I cannot take him if he is found guilty.

The prisoner received a good character.


21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-886
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

886. WILLIAM GORDON . (A Policeman) was indicted for wilful and corrupt perjury.

MR. TAYLOR. conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE LEDLY . I am chief clerk at the Marlborough-street police-court—on 9th September, William Price James, and Alexander Davidson were brought before the Magistrate there, and charged with attempting to pick pockets—the prisoner was the sole witness against them—I took his evidence (Read;."Monday, 9th September, 1861, before William Frederick Beadon, Esq. William Price James, and Alexander Davidson, charged with attempting to pick pockets." William Gordon sworn, said, "On Saturday night last, about a quarter to 8 o'clock, I followed the two prisoners, in company with a thief named Ricketts, from the Hay market to Piccadilly—I saw William Price James make a snatch at a gentleman's watch—they then went to St James's church, and I saw Davidson put his hand into a gentleman's coat pocket—he turned round and felt him, and hit him with his stick, and I went and took the prisoners into custody." On cross-examination he said, "They were going westward; James got in among the crowd—I find they are respectable persons' sons"—discharged. I think I took the evidence as nearly as possible verbatim. I don't know whether the place was named where the two boys and Ricketts went behind a gentleman; it

was not taken down. I do not know whether anything was said about cautioning one of them—we have a large number of cases there every day.

Cross-examined by. MR. METCALF Q. You were attending there when this matter was inquired into before the Magistrates? A. Yes; and when the counter charge of perjury was made—I have not my book here of that—the depositions were returned—Mr. Sleigh conducted the prosecution in that case, and there was an attorney also, and witnesses called on both sides—Mr. Beadon was the Magistrate who heard it—he has been fifteen years at that Court—the case lasted many hours; there was a full inquiry, and the Magistrate dismissed it, but was compelled to send it here under the Vexatious Indictment Act—as far as he was able to act in a judicial capacity he dismissed it—the depositions are here—the two lads were called, and I think the third also—I do not think the mother was examined upon oath—I have known the prisoner eight or nine years—I believe he has always been a very useful and active officer at our Court—I have taken his evidence 500 or 600 times during the last ten years—I have always had great faith in his accuracy—he found out that the parents of these boys were respectable—the Magistrate said, having heard the lads' characters, and finding they were so respectable, he should dismiss the case; and he cautioned them at the time—he said something about being out late at night.

WILLIAM PRICE JAMB . I live at 12, Castle-street, Long-acre, and am an apprentice to Messrs. Mc'Glashen of the Coal-yard, Drury-lane, engines and copper-smiths—I have been there about four years—I have a younger brother named John, and a fellow apprentice named Alexander Davidson—on Saturday night, 7th September, somewhere about half-past 6, after we returned from work, we all three went for a walk—we went to Hyde-park, down St Martin's-lane, through the Horse Guards, through St. James's-park and into Hyde-park—we remained there a quarter of an hour or twenty minute and came back along Piccadily—when we came opposite St James's chorea, we saw the rifle volunteers—we were then on the side opposite St. James's church, the left-hand side of the street—there was no other person in my company except Davidson and John James—I saw the prisoner Gordon when he came and threw my brother down—that was the first I saw of him—he was dressed in private clothes and had a walking-stick in his hand—when my brother fell down, Gordon hit Davidson across the back with a stick—I thought he was mad or intoxicated, and I ran some yards off, and my brother ran across the road; I stopped on the side of the kerb and saw him thrash my brother, and then let him go—he then came behind me and caught hold of me by the collar, and halloed out to another policeman, 59 C, to take Alexander Davidson, and he did so—when the prisoner took me by the collar, I asked him what was the matter, and he said, "You know as well as I do," and took us off to Vine-street—I did not say anything more to him till we got there—I said there that we thought he was mad, and run away—before that I did not make a snatch at any gentleman's guard or chain, or endeavour to steal it—Davidson did not attempt to put his hand into any gentleman's pocket—I was so close to him as to be sure of that—there was no person named Rickets, or any person at all, in our company—we did not come from the Haymarket, we came the other way—Gordon did not, about three weeks before this, caution me for being in the company of a thief—I do not know such a person as Ricketts—the prisoner charged us at the station with attempting to pick pockets—I said it was false, and he said he had followed us from Leicester-square, following the rifles, and seen us make several attempts—I gave my address, and I was bailed out late at

night—on Monday I went before Mr. Beadon—after Gordon had been sworn, he said he had watched us from the Haymarket to St James's church—he also said he had cautioned me about three weeks back, and that I had thanked him—he said he told me I was in the company of several thieves, which was false.

Cross-examined. Q. There were a number of persons there, were there not? A. Yes; with the rifles, lads, and boys, and men—there were a great number of people; I cannot exactly tell—I did not notice a hoarding near St James's church—I did not get under a hoarding—we went straight down the pavement—I did not pass over a hoarding or plank; nothing of the sort—I ran away about twenty yards—I can't exactly tell how far Davidson ran before he was taken; a very short distance—he was taken at the next turning to St. James's church, not far from the Circus—he stopped directly he saw the man catch hold of me—I should say he was about ten yards from me on the same side, nearer the Circus than Vine-street—my brother only crossed over—I saw a cab alongside of me—I saw no lads running there besides ourselves; no lads dodging about by the cab—I did not hear anyone call out, "The scamps are picking my pocket"—we met the rifles opposite St James's church—the charge against us was heard before Mr. Beadon, the same gentleman who afterwards heard the charge against the prisoner.

MR. TAYLO. Q. You say your brother did cross over? A. Yes; but I never crossed over from the left hand side at all—my brother crossed over when he got up after he had been thrown down by the prisoner, not before then—there were cabs about here and there—I did not take particular notice of them.

ALEXANDER DAVIDSO . I am an apprentice to Messrs. McGlashen, engineers and coppersmiths, Drury-lane—I was with William Price James and John James on this Saturday night—we went to Hyde-park, and returned through Piecadilly—we had not been along Piccadilly before that at all—when we got opposite St James's church we saw the rifle corps—we were on the left hand side of the street coming from Hyde-park; the rifle corps was on the opposite side going towards Hyde-park—there was nobody else in my company besides those two—I don't know anybody named Ricketts—I never heard of such a person till I heard it at the police-court—I did not see the prisoner till he came behind us—he caught hold of John James and threw him on his face, came forward and struck me on the back with a stick; John James then got up, and ran over to the other side of the way, the same side as the church—I believe there is a hoarding there—I did not notice it that evening; I have noticed it since—there was a hoarding on the side I was—when I was struck I ran away about sixty yards, and was then taken by constable 79 C—the prisoner called to him to apprehend me—I was taken to Vine-street police-station—before that William Price James did not make a snatch at a gentleman's watch—I was so close to him as to know that he did not—I did not put my hand into a gentleman's coat pocket—I am quite sure of that—I was charged at the station with attempting to pick pockets—on Monday I was taken before the Magistrate—I heard the prisoner examined after he was sworn—he said he had followed us from the Haymarket, and said he had cautioned William James three weeks ago that he was in company with a thief, and that he thanked him—I have been with Mr. McGlashen three years—I am his nephew.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you hear anybody call out "Stop thief," or a gentleman say, "The scamps have been picking my pockets?" A. No—I

did not say to 79 C, "I have not been picking pockets; it was the other boys that were in the crowd"—I did not say anything of the kind; I am quite sure of that—I and William James ran together a short way, and John James ran over the other side—we ran on, not a great way from the Circus—I stopped myself—I asked the constable what he took me for, and he said he would show me, or something of that sort—I did not then say anything about other boys picking pockets—I was taken to the station, and the charge made before the inspector—I did not then hear the prisoner say that the gentleman whose pocket was attempted to be picked struck one of us with a stick—I did not tell the inspector that we had been struck—I first told them at home that I had been struck by the prisoner—I did not speak when I first went before the Magistrate—I did not mention it to any policeman—I heard the prisoner make a statement to the inspector at the station—he said that a gentleman had his pocket picked—he did not say the gentleman had struck me with a stick—the inspector did not say to me, when I denied the charge, "Well, why did you run away if you are innocent"—he did not say so to me or to either of the other lads.

MR. TAYLOR Q. You say you stopped yourself when you ran away? A. Yes; because I saw the prisoner beating young James with a stick.

MR. METCALF Q. That was quite across the road? A. Yes—I saw the prisoner standing by John James—it was rather dark at that time; past 8 o'clock—I saw two men over there—I cannot say which it was beating him—they were both in plain clothes—there was no other policeman there—79 C was in uniform.

JOHN JAMES . I am the brother of William Price James, and was fifteen years old last January—I have recently gone to a compositor's—on 7th September I went out with my brother and Alexander Davidson to Hyde-park, and on our way home we came along Piccadilly—we there met a rifle corps coming along, going towards Hyde-park—I saw the prisoner—the first thing he did he threw me down; he was behind me; I was then on the left hand side, opposite St. James's Church—I got up and ran over the other side—my brother and Davidson kept on the left hand side—the prisoner came after me to the other side, and hit me across the legs with a stick, and I ran away again—nothing was said to me at all by the prisoner—I did not make any snatch at a gentleman's watch—I was so close to my brother that I could have seen if he had made a snatch at a gentleman's watch—he did not do so; I am sure of that—Davidson did not put his hand into a gentleman's coat or any other pocket, I am sure of that—there was nobody in my company besides my brother and Alexander Davidson—no other boy with us at all—I don't know Ricketts at all—I did not talk to anybody else—I went home, and on the same evening the prisoner came to the house—at that time he had a stick—he saw my mother, and told her that my brother was charged with picking pockets—my mother told him he had better go and withdraw the charge; he had made a mistake—he made no answer to that—he said to me, "You were going towards Hyde-park—and I said, "No, we were coming from Hyde-park"—nothing was said about striking—he came about half-past 8, and was there about five minutes—my mother told him he had struck me, and he did not answer—I did not hear any cry of "Stop thief."

Cross-examined. Q. He came there to tell your mother that your brother was in custody? A. Yes—he did not tell her to go and bail him—she immediately went and bailed him.

The Jury here stated that they were quite satisfied that the prisoner had only made a mistake with respect to the boys.


21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-887
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

Related Material

887. WILLIAM GORDON , was again indicted for unlawfully assaulting John James and Alexander Davidson.

At the suggestion of the Jury no evidence was offered.


Before Mr. Recorder.


21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-888
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

888. DANIEL McKENZIE (44) , Embezzling the sums of 1l. 2s. 2l. 2s. and 5l. 14s., the property of James Corrall, his master.

MR. COOPE. conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES CORRALL . I am a coal merchant, carrying on business at Crown-wharf, Deptford—the prisoner was in my service as collector in September last—it was his duty to collect money every day, and to account to my clerk, Isaac Kilner, every evening—his wages were 30s. week, his rent and coals, and 20l. a year extra, if he made the business answer—I gave him in custody on 11th September—I went up to his bed room that day; he was in bed—I asked him what he had been about taking my money and not accounting for it—he said he would do anything I liked to work it off, hot I said no—he said that he had received about 20l. as nearly as he could recollect.

Cross-examined by. MR. PRENDERGAST. Q. Up to that time had you any reason to be dissatisfied? A. Yes; he complained of illness, and I was dissatisfied—he has been very active in getting orders for me—mine is a new business—if the prisoner spent a shilling or two in the day it was allowed him, but not 5s. or 10s. or 50s.—I have not heard from my confidential clerk that the prisoner's custom of accounting every evening had been departed from—my men leave off work at 6 o'clock—I believe the prisoner has been out after that time at some club, and met the secretary, and received monies—about July he hurt his hand by a vessel coming alongside the wharf, which, to some extent, would prevent his writing—I was not aware that in consequence of that accident he did not keep any accounts in writing—I do not know that it would prevent his writing; he never told me so—I know his hand was in a sling, but do not know the nature of it—I was led to believe he had taken my money by a customer coming into the office and comparing his accounts with our books.

MR. COOPER. Q. Did he ever account to you for 1l. 2s. received of Joseph Frederick Brogget; 2l. 2s. of Benoni Benjamin Roberts; or, 5l. 14s. of John Lightfoot? A. No; those are all customers of mine.

JOSEPH FREDERICK BROGGET . I keep the Yorkshire Grey public-house, Blackheath, and deal with Mr. Corrall for coals—on 26th July, the prisoner called on me for 1l. 2s.; I paid him; he signed this receipt (produced,) in my presence.

BENONI BENJAMIN ROBERTS . I am a boot-maker, of 62, Wellington-street, Deptford—on 6th August, the prisoner came to me, and requested to be paid 2l. 2s. for Mr. Corrall, for two tons of coals—I paid him, and he Rigned this receipt (produced,) and gave it to me.

JOHN LIGHTFOOT . I am a licensed victualler, of Church-street, Deptford—on 13th August, I paid the prisoner 5l. 13s. for coals—he signed this receipt (produced,)

ISAAC KILNER . I live at Crown Wharf, Deptford, and am the prosecutor's clerk—it was the prisoner's duty to receive orders and collect money, and pay it over to me every night—these receipts are in the prisoner's

writing—the prisoner has not paid the amounts to me, or accounted for them—they are still in the books as unpaid.

Cross-examined. Q. Did it not frequently happen that you were not on the premises when he returned from his days work? A. Not often; it did sometimes, and then he was not able to render any account that evening—I believe Mr. Corrall used to pay his daily expenses—I have never paid him any expenses, and I believe the prosecutor has not—up to the time of his meeting with the accident he was in the habit of keeping an account in writing—I do not know that after his accident he was obliged to discontinue that, but he very seldom produced an account in writing to me after his accident—I know that his hand was in a sling—he sometimes produced, on a piece of paper, what he had received, and at other times he paid me and told me who it was from—I did not supply him with a list of the persons upon whom he was to call; he made it out, and I made out the bills—he had to call upon thirty or forty people in a day, to receive money or get orders—this in the book he asked me to enter them in; there are from fifteen to twenty in a day from whom he received money—he took out a memorandum of the places where he was to call for money—it sometimes has happened that the bill has been sent with the coals, and then there would be no lull till next week.

MR. COOPER. Q. You say that you were sometimes absent when he came back, were you sure to be at the place next morning? A. Yes; because I sleep there—since the accident to his hand, I did not always see him before he started; that was in July or August—he has been with me sinoe March—he has not asked me for money for his expenses; I requested him to make an account out that I might allow them to him, but ho never did.

MR. PRENDERGAST. Q. What credit do you give? A. None at all—it is sometimes five or six weeks before we get the cash, but we do not profess to give credit—he might deliver a bill and not receive the money, and go on to the second occasion, when he would give in a bill—one of those bill is made out by the prisoner, and two by me.

COURT. Q. Can you say whether you received any money from him, from 26th July? A. I did not receive anything on the 26th—he paid some money on the morning of the 27th, and I received some on 7th August, I believe it was in the morning; also in the morning or afternoon of the 8th—I received nothing on the 13th, but I did on the 14th—this is the account he kept of moneys received by him—this, on the 14th, is what be paid over as having been received on the 14th—all this is his writing except the signature J. T.

MR. PRENDERGAST. Q. Are any of these enteries not in the prisoner's writing? A. These of the 22d and 23d are not, and there are one or two at the beginning of the book, but all these in July are his.

JOHN SAUNDERS . (Police-inspector, R). I took the prisoner at the prosecutors wharf; he was in bed; I told him Mr. Corrall had given him in charge; for embezzling several saw of money; he made no reply.

GUILTY .—The prosecutor stated that his losses amounted to. 8l. 11s. 8d.

Three Years' Penal Servitude.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-889
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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889. DANIEL MURPHY (48) , Feloniously cutting and wounding Charles Cook, with intent to do him grevious bodily harm.

MR. SMITH. conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES COOK . I keep the Fountain public-house, in Broadway, Deptford—on the night of 27th September, the prisoner and his brother came

to my house—the prisoner was shown into the tap-room to get his supper—I lent him a knife to eat it with—his brother was before the bar—three parties came before the bar; he got before them and would not move, and I put him out at the door—he struck me and I knocked him down—at that time the prisoner came out of the tap-room with a knife in his hand—I told him he had the knife in his hand, and he had better put it down; he said, "I shall not do so"—he then made a stab at my stomach; and, seeing the knife coming; I put out my hand to defend my stomach, and was wounded—he had the knife in his right hand and he had me by the collar with his left—the potman took hold of his hand to try to get the knife from him, and cut his finger—I told the prisoner I should send for a policeman and lock him to he had stabbed me in the hand—he said, "You may do as you like about that, you gave me the knife, and I know you can do nothing with me"—my hand has been dressed by a doctor; it is very painful now—this it the knife (produced.—saw it taken from the prisoner, and it was handed over to the police.

Cross-examined by. MR. RIBTON. Q. Is that the knife you gave the prisoner to have his supper with? A. Yes; it is an old Crimean knife—there were no persons in the bar except the three I have mentioned, and they ran out directly—I struck the prisoner's brother on the nose and knocked him down; I struck him as hard as I could in my own defence; he was going to strike me—I am not a pugilist and never have been—I know something about the "science"—the people did not cry out that I ought not to ill-treat the man so—he said nothing himself; he walked away; he had had enough of it—there was a disturbance which the prisoner might have heard in the tap-room—when he came out of the tap-room his brother was outside the door, I had turned him out—there was nobody inside but my mother and my wife—the prisoner had been in the tap-room about five minutes—I had served him with a pint of porter—he was perfectly sober—he did not rash out of the tap-room, he walked out comfortably and came and stood there—I have been examined before—he either walked out or rushed out (The witnesses deposition being read, stated" he rushed out".—he could not have seen me knock his brother down; he came out after that and seized me by the collar—it was after he had me by the collar that I received the wound in my hand—after I spoke to him he jobbed it—I did not make a blow at him when he sized me by the collar; I swear that—I did nothing to him to defend myself—I allowed him to hold my collar till he let go—I was wounded between the thumb and finger, round the thumb—I saw the knife in his hand—I did not seize it or attempt to do so; I will swear that—I put my hand out to defend my stomach.

SUSANNAH TURNER . I am the prosecutor's mother, and live with him—on the evening in question I was in the bar-parlour, and hearing a noise I got up and went into the bar, and my son had just turned the prisoner's brother out, and he was going away—the prisoner came behind my son and collared him—my son directly said, "He has got a knife in his hand"—I saw him make a job with the knife, and I collared him—I saw my son's hand bleeding very much—the prisoner came back to the bar, and Mrs. Cook said a "You vagabond, you have stabbed the landlord"—he said, "And what if I have; you gave me the knife"—my son said, "Oh, let him go into the tap-room if he likes"—he had said he would go in and finish his supper—an officer was sent for and he was given into custody.

Cross-examined. Q. Did he not say, "You can do nothing with me; he me the knife?"A. Ye—he also said, "What if I have?"—I swear that—(The witness's deposition being read did not contain that statement.—he

certainly did say it; I was never before a Magistrate before—when the prisoner came out of the tap-room I saw him collar Mr. Cook, he pushed me on one side to do so; he was standing behind Mr. Cook, who was then outside the door—Mr. Cook went to the side of him somehow, to avoid the blow of the knife—he went back to the tap-room to eat his supper and remained there till the policeman came.

MR. SMITH. Q. Did you see the knife in his hand? A. Yes; and saw the blow.

FREDERICK HAYCROFT . (Policeman, R. 08). I went to the prosecutor's house on the night in question—the prisoner was pointed out to me in the tap-room—he was eating his supper—the landlord gave him into my charge for stabbing him—he only said, "Allow me to eat my supper and drink up my beer"—I took this knife from the table—it was lying close to the prisoner.

ALFRED JONES . I am a surgeon at Deptford-bridge—on the evening of 27th September Mr. Cook came to me, about 7 o'clock—I examined his hand and dressed it for him; he had a wound in the fleshy part, between the thumb and forefinger; it was bleeding very freely; I had some trouble to check the bleeding in order to dross it—it appeared to be about an inch in length and nearly half an inch deep—it was in a very dangerous part; there is a fear of lockjaw from wounds in that part.

Cross-examined. Q. Was it such a wound as might have been inflicted by a man grasping a knife? A. No; it was a punctured wound—it might have been done by grasping it, but I could clearly see the place where the point of the knife had entered.

GUILTY. of unlawfully wounding.*— Confined Twelve Month.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-890
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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890. MARY CUMBERLAND (33) , Stealing 2 gowns, 2 pair of trousers, and other articles, on 3d August, 15th August, and 9th September, the property of George Ward, her master; to which she

PLEADED GUILTY.— Judgment respited.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-891
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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891. HANNAH ELEANOR TRENHAM (13) , Stealing 1 pair of boots, value 16s., the property of Paul Spillard; to which she

PLEADED GUILTY.*— Judgment respited.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-892
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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892. WALTER GRIMWOOD (34) , Stealing 12lbs. of metal pipe, the property of John Penn and another.

MR. SLEIGH. conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM BEARS . I am in the employment of Messrs. Penn—they have a steamer, called the Vestal, which was lying off their premises for the purpose of repair—I had charge of the job—I have seen some of the copper piping which is in possession of the officer—the repairs necessitated the was copper piping, and the removal of old copper piping from the engine tort of the steamer—this piping (produced,) is, I believe, the property of Mears Penn—there was some missing about 6th September—I think the time when I saw it safe was about two days previous to the time that it was found.

Cross-examined by. MR. RIBTON. Q. Is it for steam vessels? A. For some vessels—they all have copper pipe, but there is a difference in the size and construction of it—another vessel might have the same sort of copper pipe as this—I do not know the weight of what we lost—there was pipe lost and a small nozzle—I cannot say whether the property produced corresponds in quantity with what was lost—I have not seen it all, only a

portion of it—I believe the quantity found in the bag was the exact quantity that we bad lost, but I have never seen the quantity that was in the bag; only a portion of it—one pipe and one nozzle were lost from the place, that I am aware of—a pipe would be about four or five feet long; the nozzle is a very short piece of pipe with six holes in it—that is all I know of being lost; there may have been more.

COURT. Q. Did you try it with the other? A. Yes; there was a portion brought on board the vessel afterwards, and that corresponded exactly with what we bad lost.

ALFRED JOHN CROUCH . (Policeman. R. 2). In consequence of instructions which were given to me, on 7th September, I followed the prisoner and his cart—he keeps a potato, or vegetable shop, in King-street, Deptford—a person of the name of Whittingham keeps a marine-store shop next door—the cart was at Gibraltar toll-gate when I stopped him, at about 3 o'clock in the afternoon—I said, "Mr. Grimwood, I am going to see what you have got in your cart—he said, "Mr. Crouch, I have got nothing"—I said, "What have you in that sieve you are sitting on?"—he said, "Can't you lee I have nothing; it is bottom upwards"—seeing the end of a sack projecting from under the sieve I said, "Get up and let's see what's underneath"—he got up—I turned the sieve on one side and found this sack—I took hold of it, and feeling that it was heavy I said, "You have got metal here, where did you get it from it"—he said, "From my next door neighbour"—I said, "You must go with me to the station," which was fifty yards off—he did so—when we got there I took hold of the bottom of the sack, turned the contents out on the floor, and out rolled some pieces of copper pipe that I have since weighed—they weigh twelve pounds—they were loose in the outer sack—there were also two pounds of copper nails—I opened all the bags—I asked him where he got the whole—he said he got it from Mr. Whittingham, his next door neighbour; "We were to meet at St Georges Church, in the Borough"—I then took hold of the sack, seeing it was a potato sack—I said, "Where did you get this from"—he said from his neighbour—I said I should search his house to see if I could not find some more sacks there—he then said that it was his sack, that he had lent it to his neighbour about a quarter of an hour before—he asked the inspector to allow him to go to St. George's Church with me—the inspector refused—I afterwards went to his neighbour, and saw Whittingham, on the Monday morning.

Cross-examined. Q. What were all the other things in it? A. Twenty-fife pounds of old lead rubbish; six pounds of brass; and three pounds of copper, old pieces of dross—Whittingham is a marine-store dealer—the other things, are things that would be found in a marine-store dealer's shop—you may find old copper piping there sometimes—I have known toe prisoner some time—he is a potato dealer; he keeps two horses and two carts I believe—he does not, to my knowledge, carry things to town for people sometimes—I have never heard it mentioned by the prisoner till I beard it at the police-court—I am sure I have told you correctly what he said to me—I am aware that he has contradicted it—he did not say that he had nothing of his own—he said, "Mr. Crouch, I have nothing"—I did not take a note of it—it was 3 o'clock in the afternoon that I took him to the station—I saw Whittingham on Monday morning—it was Saturday that I met the prisoner—he was in custody on the Sunday—he was not bailed out—he was first examined on the Monday—Whittingham was in Court but was not called—I had some conversation with Whittingham on the Monday; I took him to the station

—I went to his house on the Saturday but he was not there—the prisoner did not tell me at first that he had got all these things from Whittingham; he did not mention Whittingham's name—Whittingham is his next door neighbour on one side—I did not know who he meant when he said next door neighbour; not till he mentioned his name—I swear that—I think it is a butcher's shop on the other side—I knew that Whittingham was his next door neighbour, and that he was a marine-store dealer—I did not know, it war Whittingham, when he said his next door neighbour—at the policestation he asked the inspector to let me go with him to St. George's Church, and the inspector said, No, as he denied having anything in the cart, he should take the charge of unlawful possession—I called at Whittingham's three times on the Saturday—he was not at home—I first saw him on the Monday morning—I did not tell him what I had found in the cart before he said anything to me—he said something to me before I had told him.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Are you perfectly clear that the prisoner said he had nothing in the cart? A. Yes.

PHILLIP WHITTINGHAM . I live in King-street, Deptford, and carry on the business of a marine store dealer—I know the prisoner—he is my next door neighbour—I did not give him any copper piping about the 5th, 6th, or 7th of September—I never saw this copper piping till the officer shoved it to me.

Cross-examined. Q. You gave him all the other things? A. I did—three bags, which were in one bag; twenty-five pounds of old lead; six pounds of brass; and three pounds of copper, and some spoons, altogether—I asked him to take them to town for me—he has done that several times before; carried parcels for me, the same sort of things—he leaves them in the Borough, at a place of the name of Haveston, till I call for them—I do not very often go to St George's Church—I have been in trouble myself about things, about three or four times; I think that is all—I was fined by the Magistrate for having goods unlawfully in my possession—they were the same sort of things as these—I was fined 5l. one time, and 10l. another, and one time I got off—on the fourth occasion I had three months—I think it is about four or five years ago—the fines were first—I saw Crouch on—the Monday—I was getting ready to go up to the office when he came—I did not tell him what I was going to do—I did not say, before he told me a word of what was found in the cart, that I was coming up to deny having given Grimwood any copper pipe—I did not know anything at all about it—when I first saw Crouch on the Monday I did not know that any copper pipe was taken.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. When did you hear that the prisoner had been taken? A. I did not hear of it till early on Sunday morning when I came home—I heard that he had been taken because he had got my stuff and metal—I did not bear from anybody whether he had anything else that he was taken for—I did not go to the police-court on Monday—I went first to the station-house—that was after I had seen Crouch.

COURT. Q. Were you waiting at St. George's Church? A. Yet; for some time—the prisoner was to come there to me.

MR. RIBTON. to. ALFRED JOHN CROUCH. Q. You saw Whittingham on the the Monday morning? A. Yes; before I had told him anything of any copper pipe, he said to me that he was coming up to deny having given Grim wood any copper pipe—that was before I told him a word about it.

The prisoner received a good character. NOT GUILTY .

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-893
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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893. JOHN ELLIOT (26) , Assaulting Jane Wilmot, with intent to ravish her—Second Count, for a common assault.

MR. KEMP. conducted the Prosecution and. MR. LILLEY. the Defence.

GUILTY. of a common assault.— Confined Six Months.

Before Mr. Baron Martin.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-894
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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894. ROBERT WARD (46) , Stealing 6l. the property of Henry Edward Wren, his master.

HENRY EDWARD WREN . In May, 1859, I kept a beer-shop at Plumastead; the prisoner was in my service as potman—on a Saturday in April, 1859, I gave him six sovereigns to go and get changed—it was about a quarter to 1 o'clock—he was to bring me silver for it, and he never returned—I did not see him till I saw him in custody.

Prisoner. I was no hired servant of his. Witness. He had been with me about a fortnight, but he had lodged with me about nine months previous to that—my potman had left me, and at this time he agreed to do the work—I did not give him any wages, because he was in my debt, and it was as a set off.

WILLIAM CLEMENTS . I am a fishmonger, and know the prisoner—I knew be bad lived at Mr. Wren's—I heard of this matter about the sovereigns—I saw the prisoner last Monday—I was coming from Billingsgate up the steps on to London Bridge, loaded with things, and I met the prisoner going down—I said, "Don't I know you?"—he said, "Know me; no"—I said, "I think I do; did not Mr. Wren trust you with money to go and get changed for him one Saturday?"—he said, "Trust me; no"—I said, a I think you are the man"—he ran away, I ran after him—he dodged for a quarter of an hour; at last he stopped—I said, "Wherever you go I shall follow you"—he went in and had a glass of stout—at last he said, "Well, I cannot run any further"—I said, "I shall look you up," and I did so.

JAMES BLAKE . (City-policeman. 439). On Monday last, I received the prisoner about a quarter to 10 in the morning—I took him to the station, and told him he was charged with stealing this amount of money—he said, "I know nothing of it."

Prisoner. I said that was not the amount Witness, He said he knew nothing of it.

GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-895
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence
SentenceMiscellaneous > fine

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895. HENRY HAYES. (19) , Unlawfully and maliciously wounding Thomas Mockett on his face and throat, Second Count, occasioning him actual bodily harm.

MR. SLEIGH. conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS MOCKETT . I am an engine-driver, in the service of the London, Brighton, and South Coast Railway Company—on 23d September I was engaged in taking a train of empty carriages from New Cross to London Bridge—there were two engines, one in front, and one behind—the one I was driving, was the one-at the tail of the train—it was a few minutes before 5 in the evening—after I had passed the Bricklayer's Arms Station, between there and Corbitt's-lane, signal station, I saw a man on the east side of the line with a gun—I was going very slowly—about fourteen miles an hour—the man was on the embankment—he put the gun to his shoulder, put it down, then put it up a second time and fired it off—he fired as if he aimed at the engine—one of the shots caught me on the bottom of the chin, and fetched the blood out, and several caught the boiler—I heard them rattle on the boiler—the wound on my chin is quite well now—I had never seen the

prisoner before—Greenwich police-court was the first place I next saw him, eight or ten days, or a fortnight afterwards—I could not say whether the prisoner is that man—the man had on a coat like that when I saw him.

COURT. Q. Were there any bushes or sparrows about? A. No; it was a clear sort of place—he aimed the way of the engine—there was was nothing but the telegraph wires between us.

JURY. Q. How did he hold the gun? A. He put it to his shoulder.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did you see him put the gun to his shoulder, or not A. I was looking hard at him—I cannot say whether it was done willfully, or accidently, or not.

HENRY PAYNE . I am a varnish manufacturer, having my premises under the railway arches—on the afternoon this occurred I was standing at the end of the factory, which is under the arches, and I saw a man on the bank, fire a gun as the train was passing, and I saw some one at the engine pat his bands up to his face at the moment the gun went off—that drew my attention—the engine went on—I followed the young man to acquaint him of the circumstance, as I thought he was not aware that he had bit anybody.

COURT. Q. Did he run away? A. No; I did not catch up to him—I was about 150 yards from him first of all—he had the gun up to his shoulder when he fired—it was put up, I should think, for the purpose of firing.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did you observe in what direction the gun was fired? A. No; it was so momentary that I did not notice that.

THOMAS MATTHEWS . I am a porter at the Commercial Dock Station—in consequence of something that the last witness said to me, I followed the prisoner and overtook him—I asked him if he was aware what he had done—he said, "No"—I said, "You have either shot the driver of the engine, or the guard that was looking out of the window—he said, "Don't say so"—I said, "I have information that that is the case, you must give me your name and address, and leave me the gun; I shall not give you in charge; and when I have obtained correct information I will let you have the gun."

COURT. Q. He gave a correct address? A. Yes; he was surprised when I told him he had hit a man.

JOHN CARPENTER . I am an inspector of police to the Brighton Railway Company—I measured the distance from where the man was standing was fired the gun, to the train; it is twenty-five yards.

GUILTY. of a common assault.— Fined. 20s.

Before Mr. Recorder.


21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-896
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

896. JOHN ALLEN (17), and RICHARD PITT (30) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Edmund Woodford, and stealing therein 2 teapots, 1 knife, 5 spoons, and 8s. in money, his property; and 1 coat and 1 handkerchief the property of George Dack.

MR. DICKIE. conducted the Prosecution.

BDMUND WOODFORD . I am landlord of the Albert public-house, Garden-row, London-road, Walworth—on Wednesday morning, 18th September between 2 and 3 o'clock, I was awoke by a noise—I went down stairs, and found one of the panels of a temporary door, which I have to part the bar from the passage, broken out—I went through and let in the policeman at

the front door—we then went down stairs—I found a piece of the partition on the top of the stairs taken out, and the stair's door unbolted—the cellar door was open, and the lock wrenched off and doubled up—that was safe the night before—I had fastened it myself at I o'clock—the cellar flap was wrenched up—I saw that fastened at half-past 7 the night before—I went into the bar and missed 8s. worth of coppers—there were three pieces in it marked, which I had noticed when I counted the coppers, and put them there—these (produced,) are them—I found a jemmy in a chair in the bar, exactly under the halfpence; and I found a coat there—I cannot say that I saw the policeman take hold of one of the prisoners, but I saw him when the policeman had him on the ground—the 8s. worth of coppers is all I know of that was lost—I do not know whether anything was taken from the cellar; I fancy there was, but I cannot say—the jemmy corresponded exactly with marks of violence on the cellar flap.

JAMES MASON . (Policeman, L. 7). On the morning of 18th September, about a quarter past three, I was on duty near the prosecutor's house, and heard a noise like the crash of a door—I went and looked through the window over the door, and saw three lights as if struck by lucifers—I listened for some moments at the door—a few moments after, a sergeant and constable came to the corner of the street, a few yards from me—I called them to my assistance, and we got on the tops of the houses—I got in from the skylight at 32, Garden-alley—I saw two persons come out of the street-door—I can identify Allen, but I cannot identify Pitts, as he was so soon out of my sight—he only had to run just across the street, which is not very wide—I was not near enough to see how he was dressed—I only identified Allen, he had no coat on when he ran out at the door—I did not take either of them.

DAVID PEGRAM . (Policeman, L. 6l. On the morning of 18th, between 2 and 3 o'clock, I was in West-square, near the prosecutor's house—I heard the spring of a rattle, and went into Garden-row—I heard two men running over the houses of Garden-row—I could not see them—I saw two come out of the house—I can identify Allen—I took him, and charged him with breaking into the public-house—he made no reply—I asked him where his coat was, and he at first said he had got none—I took him to the station-house, searched him, and found 8s. and 3 farthings in copper, and a white handkerchief, a duplicate for a suit of clothes, a knife, and there were seven Incifer matches, I think—two coats were taken to the station-house and Allen asked the inspector to give him his coat—the coats were at that time in the inspector's room—he said the old coat was his—he gave me an address—I went there—I have a white handkerchief here, the property of the potboy (produced,—the spoons were ordered to be given up by the Magistrate—on Friday, 20th, I went to 13, Market-street, London-road, and found Pitts there—I charged him with being concerned with Allen in the robbery at the Albert Arms—he said, I have got no guernsey"—I had not said anything to him about a guernsey before that—I took him to 32, Gardenrow, and put him with two men—Mrs. Kenny lived at that house—I went upstairs for her—she identified him directly.

Cross-examined by. MR. HORRY. Q. Is there a coffee stall kept near the Surrey theatre? A. Yes; there is a boy belonging to it; I don't know his name—I know the lad—I saw him at the police-court—Allen was taken that morning—Pitts was not taken till the Friday—I was at his house on the Wednesday morning, the 18th directly afterwards—I searched his house on the Thursday—he resides at 13, Market-street, Borough-road—I did not see him there on that occasion—I searched for a guernsey—I found nothing of

the sort—I did not happen to tell anybody while searching that I was looking for a guernsey—I did not make any observation about a guernsey—there were four females there—I do not know whether one was his wife—I did not make any observation to any one of them about a guernsey—I had heard about a guernsey before that—I had not mentioned to anybody either at Pitt's house or anywhere else, that the person that ran away wore a guernsey; only to my own comrades, no one else—one was with me all the time—there was a remark made, within my hearing, at the station-house about the man who ran away having a guernsey—five persons were present at that time—that conversation was on the Friday; it was not before Pitts was taken in custody—there was no conversation or remarks made at the station-house before Pitts was taken—the constable said the man that got away had a guernsey on; that was all—it was from information I had that I went and searched Pitt's house—that was the same morning, Wednesday—I saw Pike, 95, on the day of the robbery—he came down to the station with us—I had no conversation with him about a man wearing a guernsey in going to the station—he came to the station while I was there—it was not from his information that I went to Pitt's house; it was from somebody else, a stranger—I have not been looking out for anybody else in connexion with this affair—I have not had any information from somebody else, nor have any of my fellow-constables, to my knowledge—I have not got instructions to look after anybody else; I don' t know what they have got—I took Allen down; Pike did not go with me—Mrs. Kenny came to the station; I think her husband came with her afterwards, he did not come at the time—there were two examinations; the first was against Allen alone, and the second two days afterwards against Allen and Pitts—I saw the boy, Appleby, at the police-court—I did not make any observation to him; I mean to swear that; I had the prisoners to mind—I have told him since to mind what he was about, and tell the truth which ever way it was—I did not know who he was coming up for till I saw him—we did not call him for the prosecution—I told him that when we were here last sessions, because I knew he was not telling the truth; that was my opinion, whether he told the truth or not—he was sworn and examined before the Magistrate at second hearing—I have not seen him since; he has left, I believe—it was very light at the time of the robbery, but at half-past 4 it came on very foggy.

MR. DICKIE. Q. Has anybody else been charged with breaking into this house besides these two men? A. No.

GEORGE PIKE . (Policeman, L. 5). On the morning of 18th September between 3 and 4 o'clock, I was on duty in St George's-road, near the prosecutor's house—I heard a rattle springing—I went to the house and went to the flap of the cellar was open; it had been forced with an instrument—I found four lucifers and this jemmy in the bar—it corresponded with the marks on the flap—I also found a piece of woodwork broken away on the staircase—I had a teapot that was given to me, but it was given up to the prosecutor by order of the Magistrate—I was coming through Gaywood-street on duty on this morning, about twenty minutes past 3, as near as could be, and saw Pitts walking—I noticed him come underneath a lamp—he had no cap on at the time—he had a blue guernsey on—I heard the rattle spring just after that, when he got to the corner of Lion-street, and went after him, but could not find him anywhere—he got out of my sight in about a minute from the corner of Lion-street—if I see any one at that early time in the morning I take particular notice of them at times, but I took particular notice of this man on account of knowing that street, because it is full of thieves and prostitutes.

Cross-examined. Q. Do a great many pass that street? A. Tea; thieves and prostitutes—I notice everybody that goes by—I could not describe the persons that went by before or afterwards—I believe there were two examinations—I bad not seen Pitts on the first examination—the first time I spoke of Pitts was at the second examination, but I had spoken at the station respecting him, and given a description in, and then I said that the man who was running away wore a Guernsey—before that I had told the inspector, the sergeant, and several other constables—I don't think I had told anybody else—I said he had a tuft of hair on his chin, nod he was bowlegged—I saw him pass underneath the lamp, and I passed close to him—I have no doubt of Pitts now—I did not know where he lived—I do not know why Pegram went to search Pitts' house next day; I had nothing to do with the case—I never went near the house—Pegram did not tell me that the man I saw was probably Pitts—I did not go to his house at all, bat when he was brought to the station I said he was the man—that was the first time I saw him, and be asked me, in the presence of the inspector, whether he was not talking to a woman in Gaywood-street, and I said, "No"—he did not run till after he got to the corner of Lion-street—that was about twenty yards after he passed me, and it was just after I had got to the corner of the street that I heard the rattle spring.

MR. DICKIE Q. Did you know Pitts previously? A. I never saw him before in my life—I have not the least doubt he is the man I saw that morning.

COURT Q. How far is Gaywood-street from the prisoner's house? A. He could get right into it in about five minutes—I should think it is about fife or six hundred yards—this cap I have here was given to me by a party in a yard where I got over—I know nothing about it.

GEORGE DACK . I am pot-boy to the prosecutor—on this, 18th September, I was called up between 2 and 3 in the morning—I went down to the bar, and found everything disarranged—this handkerchief is mine.

MATILDA BAL . I live at 2, West-place, West-square, Lambeth, near the prosecutor's house—I found five spoons in my dust-bin on the morning of 18th September.

MARY KENN . I am the wife of John Kenny, a labourer, of 32, Garden-row, Lambeth—on Wednesday morning, 18th September, between 3 and 4 o'clock, I was in bed, and heard a rattle spring—the first thing that woke me wag opening the skylight, and with that I saw a man jumping down with a black coat on him—what features he bad I cannot say—he turned the key and ran out of the door, and ran downstairs—I don't know who he was—the second one came to my bedside, and asked me for God's sake to save him—I asked him what was the matter—he told me the policeman was on the roof of the house after him—with that I asked him the question what he had done—he did not make any reply, only for God's sake to save him—I asked him if he had been thieving or robbing any one—he made no answer but for God's sake to save him—Pitts is the man—I followed him down the stairs in my chemise as far as the door—he had not the clothes on that he has now—he had on a blue guernsey frock—I don't know what kind of trousers—he had nothing on his head—there was a beautiful moon shining as bright as day.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you awoke by the noise of the skylight or the rattle? A. By the skylight, and I heard a person come in on me, and I jumped out of bed—one man ran away, and the other came to my bed-side—a man named James lodged in the next room to me—I asked him to come down—my husband was in bed with me—he did not get up—he told

me to go to the station, but he did not want to have anything to do with it.

COURT Q. How long do you think the man was in your room? A. About five or six minutes, and I followed him downstairs.

HANNAH JOHNSON . I am the wife of Henry Johnson, of the Crown public-house, Westminster-road—on Tuesday evening, 17th September, the prisoners were at our house drinking from about 7 till half-past 9—I know them; I had seen them there before occasionally.

Cross-examined. Q. Had you seen Pitts there with other persons? A. Yes; and occasionally with Allen.

CHARLES APPLEBY . being called on his subpoena did not appear.

MR. HORRY. called.

MARTHA PITT . I live at 12, Market-street—I saw Mrs. Jane Callow this morning about 10 o'clock, the person who was examined before the Magistrate—she was in bed very bad indeed, and not fit to come here—she was in labour—I have sent for her since I have been here, thinking I would try all I could to get her, but the doctor said she must not come outside the door—she has been very dangerously ill for the last fortnights—she was here last Session, and we were obliged to send her home in a cab; she was not fit to be here then—the parish doctor is attending her—(The deposition of Jane Callow was put in and read as follows. "I am the wife of Charles Callow, of 11, Market-street, London-road, leather japanner—I live next door to the prisoner Pitts—on Wednesday morning, from 12 to half-past 3, he was quarrelling with his wife, and then the constable drove them in—he ran out of the house after his wife, and I went to see the row—that was about I—he then returned and stood at his door till about half-past 3, with several female lodgers round him—I was sitting at my door—there were some neighbours there.

COURT. to. GEORGE PIKE Q. When you saw him was he coming to or from Mrs. Kenny's house? A. From Mrs. Kenny's house—he was about 160 yards from the house, going in a direction towards his own house.


Pitts was further charged with having been before convicted.

WILLIAM PINDAR . (Policeman. M. 58). I produce a certificate (Read.—" Central Criminal Court, Richard Pitts convicted of larceny, Nov. 1847, transported seven years.".—I was present at the trial—Pitts is the person there mentioned.

GUILTY.—ALLEN— Confined Nine Months.

PITT.— Eight Years' Penal Servitude.

It was stated that Pitts had been convicted on three other occasions, and once acquitted; and that he had had a ticket-of-leave which had been revoked.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-897
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

897. WILLIAM LAWRENCE (24), JOHN DONOVAN (19), and JAMES REGAN (20) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Samuel Price, at St. Mary Newington, and stealing therein 15s. in money, 6 spoons, value 1s., a pair of bracelets, value 6l., a necklace, value 10s., and a snuff-box, value 3l. his property.

MR. ABRA. conducted the Prosecution.

EDMUND WAIT . (Policeman P. 242). About five minutes to 4, the morning of 19th September, I was in James-street, Kennington, and heard a talking there—I saw a workman going to his work—I went towards him, and when I got near him I knew who he was—he said something to me—I passed him, and then heard the prisoner, Lawrence, sing out, "Bear a hand Jack, there is some one about"—that was at Mr. Price's door, Hill street, Camberwell—I went towards him, and he walked away from Mr. Price's house—I went to the door—I examined the side of the house, and

saw that no entry had been made there—I was going then towards the corner of the house to go to the other side of it, when I heard a person running—I waited till he got round the corner, and it proved to be Lawrence—as soon as I saw him again I knew it was the same person that I saw go away from the door, and that I heard call out—I walked across the street towards him, put my hand on his shoulder, and asked him where he was going; he said he was going home—I asked him where he lived; he said at the Elephant and Castle—I said, "You appear to be going a different road from that, this is not the way to the Elephant and Castle"—I took hold of him by the collar, and said, "You had better come with me to the station"—I went back to Mr. Price's door and knocked, but could not hear anything—Mr. Price came to his bed-room window and asked who was there—I answered, "Police I" he said, "What is it?"—I said, "Bear a hand down, I think there is some one in your house"—I then took the prisoner to the station, and afterwards returned to the house—I then heard my brother constables there—they were in search of the other prisoners who had escaped—I had given information to other officers—here are a pair of boots that were given to me—these things (produced,) were found in Mr. Price's house I received them from him, and also this box.

Cross-examined by. MB. DICKI Q. Did you know Lawrence previously? A. No—I do not know that he saw me ou the first occasion that I noticed him—when I saw him the second time he returned to the door of the house, in the direction where I was.

COURT Q. Were you in sight? A. No; not when he was coming back—I heard a person coming, and could not see who it was—I waited at the corner till he came in sight—there was a lamp near the prosecutor's house—the prisoner was standing facing the door, leaning towards it, when I first saw him—I could see him by the light of the lamp, and it was just break of day as well.

SAMUEL PRICE . I keep the Freemason's-arms, Hill-street, Wail worth—it is in Lambeth parish, I think—I have been there but a short time—on the night before 19th September, I shut up the house about a quarter to 12 o'clock—I saw the doors and windows safe—I was called up about a quarter past 4 by the police—as I went down stairs I heard a scuffling at the back part of the house—I went to the back of the house and saw two men getting over the walls—I looked to see which way they went—they went over the back garden walls in the direction of where William Moss lives—there is no other way to get away—I looked over the place—I went to the bar first, and found this jemmy lying on the floor, and then I went to the door and let the police in—there was only one policeman there then, and he had custody of the prisoner Lawrence—he did not come in, nor any one else at that time—I then shut the door again, and went in the cellar, and there I found this pair of boots—they do not belong to any one in my house—I found they had got over the wall and come through the window that is made in the cellar to let in the air and light—I had shut that myself the night before—that is not what I call the cellar door—I then came up stairs, found that the lock of the cellar door had been forced, and by that means they had got access to the passage—they then broke the bar parlour door open, and that gave them access to the bar—they emptied the tills—there was nothing in them but fifteen, sixteen, or eighteen shillings in coppers; I do not know exactly how much—I went and looked in the bar parlour, and found that this work box had been broken open—I missed six silver tea spoons, two bracelets, a silver snuff-box with an inscription on it, a five-shilling piece,

a coral necklace, and a diamond pin—the value of them altogether was, perhaps, 15l. or 16l.—it was more than 5l.—I found the drawers and cupboards in the room broken open with this thing, and the locks forced off—there was nothing in the cupboards—I found the things out of the drawers strewed about on the floor in all directions; metal spoons, tried to see if here was anything in them, and then thrown down again; and also some forks—I found this lantern in the back kitchen—I went into the yard and found a cap—by that time the police had come in—they went in search of the prisoners.

WILLIAM MOS . I reside at 40, Aldridge-road, in Walworth, about three or four gardens from the prosecutor's—on the morning of 19th September, about a quarter to 4 o'clock, I was awoke by a noise—I looked out of window and saw a man get over the fence, run along the garden, get over the fence on the other side, and go over the other gardens—he resembles Donovan.

Cross-examined by. MR. DICKIE. Q. Had you just got out of bed? A. Yes.

JOEPH KEMP . (Policeman, M. 281). On the night of 18th September, about 11 o'clock, I was in Newington-causeway, and saw the three prisoners there—they went towards the prosecutor's house—I saw them for about six or seven minutes, I should think—I had seen Lawrence before—he was dressed the same as he is now.

THOMAS GORRIDGE . (Policeman, M. 105). From information I received, I apprehended Donovan in Snow's-fields—I told him I wanted him for being concerned with others in a burglary over at Walworth—he told me readily that he was not the man, that I was quite mistaken—I took him to the station—I cannot tell you in what parish the prosecutor's house is.

THOMAS NEWRY . (Police-sergeant, P. 12). On the morning of 20th, I took Donovan from Bermondsey station to Carter-street—going along, I asked him to account for himself on the previous morning at 4 o'clock—he told me he was in bed at a house in Trinity-street in the Mint—I made inquiries, and there is no such street as Trinity-street—I believe the prosecutor's home to be in St Mary's Newington.

HENRY HUNT . (Police-sergeant, M. 34). On the morning of the 20th, I went to Disney-street, Mint, and found Regan there—I told him I was going to take him in custody for being concerned in committing a robbery at a public-house at Walworth, with a person named Blaxall, by which name I know Lawrence—Regan said, "Well, I must admit I know Blaxall, but I have not seen him for this four days, and I know nothing about what you are taking me in to custody for"—I cannot tell you what parish the prosecutor's house is in—it is out of my district.

WILLIAM HEMP . I do not exactly know Hill-street, Walworth, but I know that the whole of Walworth between High-street and the Kent-road, is in the parish of St. Mary Newington.

Donovan's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows.—I did not say Trinity-street, but Disney-street, Mint, to the constable. I was in bed at the time of the robbery."

The Court considered that there was no evidence against Donovan or Regan.


Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-898
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

898. CAROLINE SMITH. (17) , Breaking and entering the dwelling-house of James Forsbury, and stealing therein 2 gowns, 2 waistcoats, 3 pinafores, 1 handkerchief, a petticoat, and a mantle, his property.

MR. WA. conducted the Prosecution.

ANN FORSBURY . I am the wife of James Forsbury, of 5, St Georges-terrace, Ebury-bridge, Pimlico—on 14th September, I locked my room-door—I have two parlours; one room goes into the other; there is only one door that I can lock—I left the parlour, and locked the door—I went down to the kitchen, and was there for half an hour—when I came up, my parlour door was unlocked—I found all my things gone, and my door left open—my things had been in a box in the bedroom—I missed two gowns, a white petticoat, a white pocket-handkerchief, two little waistcoats, a pair of cord trousers, three little tunics, and a black silk mantle—I do not know the prisoner.

ELIZABETH CLARK . I am the wife of John Clark, and live in the same house an the last witness,—on 14th September, I saw the prisoner about half-past 1 o'clock at the front door—she came and gave one knock—she asked for Mrs. Clark—I said, "Which Mrs. Clark do you want? there are two live in the house, but I believe the other Mrs. Clark is out"—she said, "It does not signify; will you let me stop here out of the rain?—I live in the kitchen—I went down stairs, and left her at the door—I saw the last witness in the back kitchen—the prisoner had no bundle or anything when she came to the door.

SAMUEL HOWARD . I live in the same house as the two last witnesses—I saw the prisoner on 14th September from about a quarter to half-past I—I first saw her walking past the house—I saw her two or three times passing the house—she had no bundle then—at last I saw her leaving the house with a bundle.

WILLIAM SMITH . (Policeman. L. 55). I took the prisoner on the 12th of this month, on another charge—I found on her this key (produced,) which exactly fits the prosecutrix's door.

COURT Q. It is a very common key is it not? A. Rather—I do not think it would fit five hundred doors in that neighbourhood—I tried it, and found it fit—it unlocks and locks Mrs. Forsbury's door just as well as the proper key—she gave her address, 15, Orchard-street, Westminster, which I found to be false—I found that she lives at 3, Wood's buildings, Chelsea—she said that the other girl that was with her, picked those keys up in the park.

Prisoner's Defence. I was with the other girl, and we picked up the keys and a sixpence in the park. I am innocent, and know nothing about it After I was remanded for a week, the Magistrate dismissed the case.

COURT. to. WILLIAM SMITH Q. Was the case dismissed? A. Yes; the only additional evidence I have against her now is the finding of the key.


There was another indictment against the prisoner.

Before Mr. Recorder.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-899
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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899. SAMUEL MILLS (32) , Feloniously marrying Emma Underwood, his wife being alive.

MR. HORRY. conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY SUTER . I am a marine store-dealer in George-street, Greenwich—my mother is now living; her name was Suter before her marriage with the prisoner—I was living with her up to 31st May, 1855—I had seen the prisoner before that date, coming backwards and forwards to our house to my mother—I remember the 31st May, 1855; my mother left the house that day—I heard from her that she and the prisoner were married—I did not see him on the day of the marriage, they did not return—I went and saw them where they were living, three days after the marriage, at some

place at New cross—they lived together there as man and wife up to 6th May, 1860—I always knew them as married persons ever since.

COURT Q. Did you ever hear from the prisoner whether he was married to your mother? A. Yes, I have often heard him repeat it; he said they were married at Charlton-church.

MARY ANN GALLO . I am a widow of 18, George-street, East Greenwich—I know the prisoner; he lived in my house with Elizabeth Gell, Mrs. Mills, from 21st July up to 22d October, 1860—they lived together as man and wife—she is the mother of the last witness—her maiden name wag Gell—she was married to a Mr. Suter, and he at the time had a wife living, so that she retained her maiden name—after they had been in my house ten days, the prisoner showed me the certificate of their marriage at Charlton-church—he showed me three papers, one was a certificate of Mr. Suter's marriage at Croydon, and one was part of a letter.

WILLIAM ELDRIDGE . (Policeman.) I produce two certificates, of marriage, marked A and B—the one marked A I got from the second wife—I have compared them with the registers at the parish churches of Charlton and St Georges in the East, and they are correct—(The first certified the marriage of Samuel Mills, bachelor, and Elizabeth Gell spinster, at Charlton church, on. 31st May. 1855; and the second certified the marriage of Samuel Mills to Emma Underwood on. 6th May. 1861.)

EMMA UNDERWOOD . I live in the Poplar-road—I was married to the prisoner on 6th May last.

Prisoner. I told her my business with the other before I married her. Witness. He told me he had married Elizabeth Gell, and after he had married her he found she had a husband living of the name of Henry Suter, and he took me to Croydon church and got the certificate of their marriage that is now produced, and of course I thought that was clear proof—he did not tell me he had discovered that Henry Suter had a wife before—he left his lawful wife to tell me that.

THOMAS GARDNER . (Police-sergeant, M. 25). I booked the charge against the prisoner at the station—I read it over to him, and told him he was charged with unlawfully intermarrying with Emma Underwood, his former wife being alive—he said he had got married at Charlton church, but he had found out afterwards that Mrs. Suter had a husband living; consequently he thought he was at liberty to get married again.

The prisoner put in a long written defence, stating that it was not until some time after his first marriage he discovered that his wife had been previously married to a man named Suter, that Suter returned and claimed his wife, and, in company with his two sons, came to the house and told him to leave, that he was not lawfully married and had no business there; that his wife also wished him to leave her, and that he ultimately did so, and considering he was free, married his second wife.

MARY ANN GALLO . (re-examined.) The prisoner and his first wife lived at my house from 20th July to 22d October—during that time he used to be away four or five weeks together—it was about ten days after they came that he showed me the certificate of Suter's previous marriage—he wanted his boots mended, and one of my children happened to take them to Mrs. Gells brother, who is a boot-maker—I told him that the boot-makers' wife had said that he was no brother-in-law of hers; and he said he would prove to me that he was lawfully married to Mrs. Gell, and then he showed me the papers—I never saw Suter at my house—no persons came and made any disturbance there—he would not allow any one to speak to his wife, and

would not allow her to come out of her room—her mother came now and then while he was absent; no one else—I frequently saw him after he left on the 22d October—Mrs. Mills remained in the house for fire weeks afterwards—he left her without food or money.

HENRY SUTER . It is not true that my father and my brother went to the prisoner's house and told him he must not remain there—I never went there and told him he was not lawfully married to my mother, and that he hid no business there.

Prisoner. Q. Some little time ago did not your brother John come home from sea? A. Yes; you would not allow my mother to speak to him, and one evening when we came home from the play, my mother said he should come and bid her good-bye before he went away again, and he did, and you and he had some words—nothing was said about your not being lawfully married.

GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Month.

The second wife staled that the prisoner had made away with some little property she had, and that at the time of her marriage the sacrificed a sum of. 10s. per week allowed her for the support of three illegitimate children.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-900
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

900. THOMAS WILLIAM (17) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of Jewel d'Adheman, and stealing four childs, frocks, and other articles, having been before convicted; to which he


Three Years' Penal Servitude.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-901
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

901. JANE HILLER (19) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of Walter Meller, and stealing therein 30 forks, 42 spoons, and other goods, value 60l. his property. Second Count, receiving the same.

MR. PLAT. conducted the Prosecution.

ISAAC SHEPHERD . (Policeman.) I am specially employed by the London and South Western Railway Company—on 23d September last the prisoner met me in Dorey-street, Lambeth—she came up to me and said, "Shepherd, I wish to speak to you"—I had known her for the last five years, and knew that she had been living with a man of the name of Barnes—I said, "What is it?"—she said, "I have been to your house, but you were not at home—do you know if there have been any robberies on Clapham-common"—I said, "Yes; I know there have been"—she said, "I can tell you who did them—you know Barney, that I have been living with?"—I said, "Yes; I know him very well"—she said, "Well, he is the man who has committed all the burglaries at Clapham-common"—I asked her when it was—she said, "In the first part of July last, Barney, went to a gentleman's house on Clapham-common; he got in there and stole a lady's mantle, but he could not get any further than the hall, and that was all be took on that occasion"—I said, "Well, what was done with the mantle"—she said, "I wore it myself a few days—I altered it; I put fresh buttons and fresh lining to it—I wore it for a few days and then I pledged it"—I asked her "Where?—she said "At Burnett's in Savill-place, Lambeth-walk, for 6s. by Barney's instructions—Barney, as outside waiting for me at the time"—I asked her when it was pledged, she said about 19th or 20th July, and that it was pledged in the name of Barnes for 6s.—I said to her, "What is your motive for coming to make this statement to me"—she said, "You know that I have been living with him"—I said, "Yes"—she said, u Well, I intend to send him away, for he has been beating me about"—and she showed me some bruises on her arm—she then said, "I will tell you of another bnrglary, the night after which was a Friday night, 5th July, Barney, and me went to

Clapham-common, and there Barney got into a gentleman's house, he was gone two hours and a half; I waited outside near the furze—he got into a gentleman's house there, and took three coats and a great quantity of plate, forks, knives, and spoons, which he took home—we went home together, and Barney broke up the plate"—I said, "What did he do with it then?"—she said, "He sold it for 18l."—I said, "What was done with the wearing apparel?"—she said, That was pledged—I will tell you where one cost was pledged, a very remarkable coat, you will be sure to know it if you see it, it has seven chamois leather pockets; it is a gentleman's drab coat; it was pledged for 15s. in the name of Bennett, at a pawnbroker's in the Westminster-road, opposite the Catholic cathedral"—she said it was pawned the very next day after it was stolen, on a Saturday—she said, "Barney was with me; he waited outside again—I pledged it by his instructions for 15s"—she said the other two coats were pledged in Chelsea for 10s., she would tell me where some day; she would go with me—I let her go at large that evening, and made the necessary inquiries—I found the mantle pledged as she had said, at Barnett's, in Saville-place—on the followimg Tuesday, the 1st, the prisoner came to me again, outside the Tower-street station—she said, "Shepherd, I have been looking for you, I want to see you particularly; I know you are looking after Barnes; I am come to tell you that the statement I made to you the other day is not true—I was angry with him at the time for he had been beating me about and threatening my life, and I intended to have sent him away, but I have now forgiven him, therefore what I hare told you is not true"—I said, "Then if this is the way you are going to act, you must take the responsibility upon yourself"—she said, "I am quite willing to do that; I pledged the property and I will take it on my shoulders rather than he should suffer"—I then took her into custody—on the first interview, she said to me, "Do you know that there was a policeman's cape lost at Clapham-common"—I said, "I don't know that there was, but I shall make the inquiries"—she said, "The night that Barney took the mantle he also took a policeman's cape which he found and brought it away, and wore it home"—I said, "What was done with it then?"—she said, "Barney gave it to his father; he kept it for a few days and then burnt it, and nearly set the house on fire"—I have made inquiries and find that a cape was lost—I asked her where the burglary had taken place, and she said, "You can't make a mistake there is some furze close by"—I know the place; there is some furze close to Captain Meller's house, and also by Mr. Coomber's.

Cross-examined by. MR. WARTO Q."Was this confession of her's made to you voluntarily? A. Yes; I offered her no inducement to make it, nor did I threaten her if she did not tell me more than she had done—she accused me at the police-court of doing so—she said I had offered her 5l.—that is not true—I should not be surprised if a witness were to state that I did, because I know there was another with her at the time she came to me—I know Clapham-common pretty well—I believe furze is very common there; I think there is furze over the greater part of the common—it is not confined to any particular part of it, but there is furze by Captain Meller's—the date of Captain Meller's burglary was the 5th—Mr. Coomber's was the 1st—that was committed on the night of the 4th.

MR. PLAT Q. What kind of man is Barnes in size? A. He is a little man—if a small place were opened he might get through; where he can get his head he can get his body.

THOMAS DUNMAN . I am in the service of Capt. Walter Meller, of Broadlands,

Clapham-common, in the parish of Battersea—between the night of the 5th and the morning of the 6th July my master's house was broken into, and property taken away—I was aroused on the morning of the 6th by some one coming to the pantry door, where I was sleeping—it was tried twice—the latch was lifted—I could see a light through the bottom of the door—I heard footsteps go up the stairs—I afterwards went up stairs myself; I heard nobody, and then went to bed—in the morning I went into the scullery, and found the window open at the bottom, nearly as far as it would go up—that sash had been closed the night before—the top sash was open a very small distance—there are iron bars inside six inches apart—I do not think a man could get through that opening; a small person might; I could not—I am five feet eight and a-half inches in height—I found one of the drawing-room windows open; the shutters were opened from the inside, and a bell taken away—some ornaments were taken away from the drawing-room—I missed some silver plate from the dining-room, and four coats from the hall—the plate missed was worth about 70l.—I had seen it safe in the house when I went to bed about 11 o'clock—I noticed some footsteps outside the drawing-room window—they were the footsteps of a man—I only saw the footsteps of one—this coat (produced,) is Capt. Meller's—it is one of the coats we lost that night.

Cross-examined. Q. What was the size of the footstep you saw? A. It was not a whole footstep, only a part—I think it was the footstep of a fall grown man—it was not a female's.

JOHN WOODMAN . I am assistant to Mr. Master's, a pawnbroker in the Westminster-road—this coat was pawned on 6th July for 15s. in the name of Mrs. Bennett—I have the counterpart duplicate here—I do not know the prisoner—I cannot say who the party was that pledged it; I have no recollection at all, merely that it was a woman.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you make any inquiry of the person who pawned it? A. I asked if it was her own property—I did not write the ticket.

ALFRED BONARD . (Policeman, V. 301). On the night of 4th July, about 11 o'clock, I placed my cape in a private lane, called Coomb-lane, by the side of Capt. Meller's house—next morning about 5 o'clock it was gone.

GUILTY. on Second Count.

She was further charged with having been before convicted.

ALFRED ANSEL . (Policeman.) I produce a certificate (Read: "Central Criminal Court, February. 1858, Jane Hillier, convicted on her own confession of receiving—Nine Months".—the prisoner is the person.

GUILTY. †— Three Years' Penal Servitude.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-902
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

902. JOHN WARD (39) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. POLAND. and, LA. conducted the Prosecution.

CAROLINE ALBRACHT . I am the wife of John Israel Albracht, a baker, of 14, Commercial-road, Lambeth—on Wednesday, 18th September, the prisoner came for one pennyworth of bread—he tendered me a sixpence—I gave him the change, and he left—I had no other sixpence in the till—I afterwards gave it to a little boy to go and get change; he brought it back as bad, and I put it on the shelf till my husband came home; he put it in a vase on the mantle shelf, and I ultimately gave it to the policeman—on the next Saturday, 21st September, a little girl, named Elizabeth Fracer, came for a quartern loaf, and offered me a bad half-crown—I said, "Where did you get

it from?"—she said that a gentleman outside gave it to her—I went outside and saw the prisoner a few doors off—I said, "You vagabond, you gave me a bad sixpence"—a policeman came up, and took him before he made any answer—the child said that is the man who gave me the half-crown.

Prisoner. Q. You knew me as a customer? A. Quite well—I was in your shop several times between the 18th and 21st.

COURT Q. Why did not you go for him? A. I did go, and the little boy and me could not find him—I did not know where he lived, but I went over to a public-house where I thought he would be.

EDWIN FRANCIS POMPHREY . I am twelve year old, and live with my father and mother—on Wednesday, 18th September, Mrs. Albracht gave me a sixpence to take to Mr. Ford's, at the corner of King-street, to get change—gave it to his servant, who gave it back to me as bad, and I took it back to Mrs. Albracht.

ELIZABETH FRACER . I am thirteen years old, and live at 2, Harrietttreet, Lambeth—the prisoner gave me a half-crown in the middle of a crossing, nearly opposite the baker's—he said, "Go in there and get me half a quartern loaf, and bring it over to me"—I said that I would—I went in and gave Mrs. Allbracht the half-crown, and from what she said to me I went to the door with her—she pointed to the prisoner, and asked me if that was the man, and I said, "Yes"—a constable was sent for and he was taken to the station.

Prisoner. Q. Are you quite certain I am the man? A. Yes—I had never seen you before that I know of—you had only removed a few yards from where I left you—you were against the public-house when I came out.

JOHN MANSFIELD . (Policeman, L. 70). On Saturday night, 21st September, I received charge of the prisoner from Mr. Allbracht, for passing this bad half-crown and a sixpence (produced,—he said that it was not he—I searched him and found a good shilling and threepence in coppers.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This sixpence and half-crown are bad.

Prisoner's Defence. I never saw the girl in my life, to the best of my knowledge.

GUILTY .*— Confined Twelve Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-903
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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903. WILLIAM GLOVER. (28) , Unlawfully having in his possession 2 moulds, one impressed with the obverse and the other with the reverse sides of a sixpence, without lawful excuse; also, 31 counterfeit sixpences, with intent to utter them; to both which he


James Brannan stated that the prisoner was in custody in July last, for uttering, and that he had sent down pounds worth of counterfeit coin this season to the hop-pickers in Kent.

Four Years' Penal Servitude.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-904
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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904. JOHN JONAS (26), and WILLIAM SKELLY (20) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin, having other counterfeit coin in their possession.

MESSRS. POLAND. and, LA. conducted the Prosecution.

ANN SONES . My husband keeps a grocer's shop—on Thursday, 19th. September, Skelly came for half an ounce of tobacco—I gave it him and he put down a two shilling-piece, as I thought—I tried it and it sounded; I took it up to get the change, and laid it on the table; while counting the change to him, 1s. 10 1/2 d., Mr. Sones came in—directly the prisoner saw him come in, he caught the change off the counter and ran out—I said to Mr. Sones, "Look at this"—he took the florin up and said directly, "It is a bad

one," and went out to look for the prisoner—I kept the florin by itself till I went down to the station.

JEMIMA LOUGHTON . I am a widow, and keep the Royal Oak beer-shop, Water-lane, Brixton—on Thursday, 26th September, I was serving and Jonas came in—he asked for a glass of ale—I served him, and he gave me a florin in payment—I gave him 1s. 10 1/2 d. change—I put the florin in my purse—there was no other florin there, only two sixpences—Jonas left after I had given him the change; he did not hurry himself; he drank the beer and left—Mr. Davis came in two or three minutes afterwards, and from what he said to me I looked at my purse and found the florin there—I examined it and found that it was bad—I gave it to Davis and he went out after the person that had given it to me—I saw Jonas at the station-house, after he was taken in custody—I am quite sure he is the person who gave me the florin—I saw nothing of Skelly.

GEORGE DAVIS . I am a bricklayer, and live at 35, Sussex-road, Brixton—on Thursday afternoon, 26th September, I saw the prisoners together in Water-lane—I saw them shuffling about between themselves, and saw Skelly pass something to Jonas—I was not near enough to see what it was—Jonas then went into the Royal Oak, which is about half a dozen yards off at the most—he remained in there between three and four minutes—Skelly remained outside, about fifteen yards away—I saw Jonas come out, and Skelly nodded his head for him to turn down St George's-place—Jonas did so, and Skelly joined him about twenty yards from the beer-shop—upon that I went into the Royal Oak—I spoke to Mrs. Loughton, and she took from her purse a bad florin and gave it to me—I went after these men and found them at the bottom of the road, together—there was no constable near—I caught hold of one of them, and got a friend of mine to hold the other—a constable afterwards came up, and the two were taken to the police-station—the florin that Mrs. Loughton had given me, I gave to the constable.

Cross-examined by. MR. LLOYD. (for JONAS. Q. Is this public-house in Water-lane? A. Yes; at the corner of Water-lane and St. George's place—when Jonas went into the public-house I was standing on the scaffold at the opposite corner—Skelly was at the other opposite corner, facing our building; there are three corners—he remained standing still all the time till Jonas came out—he then went down St. George's-place, and Skelly followed him—I was watching them all this time—Jonas went about ten or twenty yards down St George's-place before Skelly came up to him.

Cross-examined by. MR. SMITH Q. You say you saw Skelly pass something to Jonas? A. Yes; I saw their hands meet—it was not the other way, from Jonas to Skelly—I will swear positively that it was from Skelly to Jonas—I could not see what it was like—I saw Skelly stoop down on the ground and pick up something to rub it with, and then pass something to Jonas—I should rather think it was not tobacco—I would not swear that it was not tobacco.

WILLIAM OVEN . I am potman at the George Tavern, Water-lane, Brixton—on Thursday, 26th September, I saw both the prisoners come up to my master's house—that is, I should think, about 250 yards from the Royal Oak—I saw Davis come and detain them—I stood at the door and looked at them till I asked Davis what he was doing with them—I followed them to the station, and saw Skelly drop a two-shilling piece out of his hand—I called to the policeman, and he told me to pick it up and give it to him; and I did so.

Cross-examined by. MR. SMITH Q. Did you pick up the coin yourself?

A. Yes—I have not got it with me—I gave it to the policeman—I swear it fell from Skelly.

GEORGE MOXHAM . (Policeman, P. 235). On this Thursday I saw Davis with the two prisoners—they were given into my custody—as I was taking them to the station, Ovens told me that Skelly had dropped a two shilling piece—I told him to pick it up and give it to me, and he did so—this is it (produced,—I searched Skelly at the station and found on him these four florins (produced,) wrapped separately in tissue paper—I told him they were bad, he did not deny it—I searched Jonas and found on him 1l. in gold, 2s. 6d. in silver, and 4 1/2 d. in copper, but no bad money—on Skelly I found 2l. in gold, 13s. 4d. in silver, and 2s. 9 1/2 d. in copper, all good—Davis gave me this florin (produced,) and after they were locked up, Mrs. Sones gave me this florin (produced,)

Cross-examined by. MR. LLOYD Q. Was what was found on Jonas all good money? A. Yes—he said that he did not know the florin was bad.

Cross-examined by. MR. SMITH Q. Did not they both say that of the first florin? A. No; only one said it—Skelly did not say, as well as Jonas, that it was a good florin at the Royal Oak—when I spoke to Skelly about the four florins found on him being bad, he made no reply—it was before that that he had told me that the florin was good.

Cross-examined by. MR. LLOYD Q. Have you ever said anything before about searching Jonas? A. Yes; I have said that I searched him and found the good money on him.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These seven florins are bad, and from the same mould—if a florin were taken out of tissue paper for the purpose of being uttered, and were rubbed on the earth, it would make it look as if it had been in circulation; it would brown it, if it had been coloured first—damp earth, dirt, soot, or grease would make it look as if it had been in circulation.

Cross-examined by. MR. SMITH Q. Is there anything on those four florins found on Skelly, but the mere metal? A. No; I have not said so—these are all ready for circulation—they are electro-plated and coloured—there is nothing on their surface to give them the appearance of having been in circulation, more than you would find on any other florin—these four found on Skelly, and also the one said to have been dropped, I should think had all dropped, out of a paper, and had not been in circulation—they have been coloured by the electro process—they are all ready for circulation, but have never been tendered—there is nothing to show whether these four have or have not been in circulation.

MR. POLAND Q. On those four look as if they had just come out of paper? A. Yes—the other two have been in circulation, and they are all from one mould.

COURT Q. On the one that was picked up, is there any indication of it's having been rubbed on the pavement? A. No.

ANN SONES . cross-examined by. MR. SMIT Q. I understand that you say Skelly passed a coin with you, sometime back? A. On the 19th—he took his change, a shilling, a sixpence, and 4 1/2 d., and left—he left none on the counter—he cut, very briskly.

Skelly received a good character. GUILTY .*— Confined Twelve Months each.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-905
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

Related Material

905. ROBERT TURNER FRY. (56) , Embezzling the sums of 1l. 7s. 6d. 2l. 8s. 11d., and 7s. 10d. the property of the South Western Railway Company, his masters.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTIN. with. MESSRS. LILLEY. and, WOOLLETT. conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM PANTIN . I am a partner in the firm of William and Charles Pantin, dry salters, of West Smithfield—on 20th April I paid 2l. 8s. 11d. to a person who signed this receipt (produced,) on account to the London and South-Western Railway Company—to the best of my belief the prisoner is the person—he signed the receipt in my presence.

BENJAMIN CHASTIN . I am clerk to Mr. John Bennet Lawes, of Adelaide-place, London-bridge—on 17th April, I paid 1l. 7s. 6d. to the prisoner on account of the South Western Railway Company—it consisted of two accounts of 12s. 6d. and 15s.—the prisoner on that occasion signed these two receipts (produced,) for the accounts.

CHARLES THOMAS BRADNOCK . I am one of the firm of Willam and Co., of 21, Clink-street, Southwark, egg importers—I produce a bill of the London and South Western Company for 7s. 10d. which was due by us to the Company—it was paid on the 23d April in the present year—it bears a receipt signed by R. T. Fry—I cannot swear that I paid the money myself, but I know that it was paid to Mr. Fry, because he was well known to every one in our establishment—I cannot swear that I saw it paid to him—I might have paid it myself—I know his handwriting—I am certain that this is his writing.

Cross-examined by. MR. RIBTON Q. What is that 7s. 10d. for? A. For carriage of goods from Southampton—I was not in the habit of paying to many other clerks of the South Western Company—I cannot say how many—Mr. Fry was generally the receiver of these goods—I was sometimes in the habit of paying to other clerks—I cannot say to how many—I have generally paid money to Fry—the persons to whom I have paid money have never brought receipts ready signed; they have always signed in my presence—they were always signed in the presence of the person who paid the money—I might have paid this money to the prisoner; but I do not know whether I did—either myself or Mr. Willam would pay it unless we were going out and knew the day it would be called for; and then we should leave it out for the clerk to pay.

CHARLES HAGREEN . I am chief cashier at Nine Elms' station, on the South Western Railway—the prisoner was a collector at that station—he was in the habit of collecting all out-standing accounts in relation to the station generally—Pantin was a customer from whom it would be his duty to receive monies—he has not accounted to me for 2l. 8s. 11d. received on 20th April—it would be his duty to do so—he has never accounted to me for 1l. 7s. 6d. on 17th April, nor for 7s. 10d.—the signatures to these three bills are in his writing—there was some inquiry being made into the accounts—on 20th April, about 8 o'clock in the evening, I asked him if he had received Pantin's account—he said it was not paid—from farther inquiries that were made, he was on 25th April suspended from his duties—no inquiry was made of him at that time about the amount of losses—it would be within a period of nine days after that—I cannot fix the date specifically—a Mr. Harvey, who was assisting me in the accounts asked him if he could tell what his deficiencies were—he said they would be about 200l. not less.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you any book in which those two items that you have mentioned, would have been entered if they had been paid to you? A. Yes; this is it (produced,)—he never paid the 1l. 7s. 6d. to me; he would have paid that to a Mr. Crouch—he ought to have accounted to

me for it—the sum of 2l. 8s. 11d. on 20th April, has not been paid in—he ought to have paid that to me, and to nobody else—the account 1l. 7s. 6d. was handed to him by Mr. Crouch, unknown to me, to be collected—it did not pass through my hands—I do not know that that was wrong of Mr. Crouch—it was what we call an occasional account—I do not know that I should have allowed him to have handed it if he had asked my permission to do so—the 2l. 8s. 11d. account was handed to the prisoner by erne of my clerks, named Jacobs, who is not here—I know from the entry here, in the collecting book, in the clerk's handwriting, that it was handed to him—I was not present when it was handed to him—he was to have accounted to Mr. Ponten for the 7s. 10d.—Mr. Ponten received the accounts for the inwards office—the 2l. 8s. 11d. is all that I speak to of my own knowledge—the prisoner, in the course of his duty, would have to pay money to three persons in a general way—there were the three mentioned, and also Stanford—if I happened to be absent, one of my clerks might take the money, and hand it to we—I have three clerks in my immediate office, any one of whom would receive money in my absence, and hand it ore to me—their names are Blunt, Jacobs, and Woodroe—they are in the service of the Company—Blunt is here—they have frequently received money in my absence, and paid it over to me—it was not at all an uncommon thing—my duties take me a good deal away from the office at times; and then the clerks there would receive the money, and hand it over to me—I never knew an instance having happened, by mistake or otherwise, of money that they have received, not having been handed over to me at the proper time—Mr. Fry has been in the service of the Company about fourteen yean—I cannot say whether there was any written agreement between him and the Company, when he entered the service—I know of none, further than the Guarantee Society's—I mean a guarantee against losses occasioned by him or on his part—I do not know whether in cases where there in a guarantee they decline to pay anything unless there is a prosecution—I am guaranteed—it is a general rule that they decline to pay unless there is a prosecution by the Company—that is generally acted upon—I know Fry was a guaranteed servant—I do not know whether there was a written agreement at the time he entered their service—I won't swear there was not—I am not aware of its being usual to have written agreements with clerks, defining their duty—there was one with regard to myself, and there was one in Stanford's case—I cannot say whether there was one in Fry's cast—I was not at Nine Elms when he was appointed—it would be about three sets of accounts that he, would have to collect at this time—there would be the delivery accounts the station accounts, and the up office accounts—he would pay them in, separately, to some of the persons I have mentioned, unless I was present—he went out collecting about 10 o'clock in the day, and returned about 6—he was supposed to be collecting all day—if he had any difficulty in getting in the accounts, he had to report to me—that was sometimes reported—no doubt he often had to call several times for the same amount—I cannot say bow many persons he would have to call on on an average in the course of the day, on the delivery accounts: it would vary so much—the delivery accounts did not pass under my notice—none of these three items are referred to the delivery account—he would pay Stanford the monies for the delivery account—these items refer to the station and up office accounts—sometimes he would not have one account in the station department to collect during the day; sometimes be might have a dozen—very seldom more than that—6 o'clock was the time he generally

returned—I was there at 6—I left at 6 to go to tea, and returned again at 7—it often happened that, instead of paying monies to me on the evening he returned, he paid them on the following morning—sometimes they would go a whole week without his paying me, and then he would pay me on the Saturday—that might have gone on for two or three weeks at a time—I mean that for two or three weeks in succession he may have given a weekly account all at once—that has been going on for some length of time; for the last two years, perhaps, I should say—it was not the practice for the last two years that his accounts generally went over for two or three weeks—they were paid every week—they never went longer than a week—he handed me the money, and then gave the items of which it consisted, from an account of his own—2l. 8s. 11d. is the only one of the three sums, that be ought to have paid to me—he has not accounted for that at all—he paid me 25l. 0s. 7d. on that Saturday, the 20th of April—that consists of the items that he paid me in that week—it refers to that week—(Referring to his book, the last date before that, of any payment from him, is the 13th—he also paid me on the 6th—on 30th March, he paid me 108l. 6s. 5d.—on the 23d he paid me over 200l.—there is one very large account there.

COURT Q. When you said that it was his practice to pay at the end of each week, did you mean that that had been the uniform practice for two years! A. Yes.

MR. RIBTON. Have you any of the items of which that sum of 200l. consisted? A. Yes; entered in my own book, in my own hand-writing—I took them from him—this is merely my rough book; I have another book into which the gross total is copied—his name is not down here—I know from the items that it is received from him—I know from my totalling of them that they are the prisoner's items—there are entries in this book of monies received from other persons besides him—I know that these names down here, which contain the various items of this 108l. are sums paid to me by the prisoner, by the way in which I have entered them, by the totalling, by the sum of 108l.—I know from my way of entering them that they are all paid by the prisoner—I have compared them with his own collecting book—I did that before he was taken in custody; after he was suspended—I should have known that the entries referred to him, without comparison—I know by the names; they are the customers he would go to—no other clerk collected from those names; in Pickford's case they have done so, but that was an accidental case when one of the clerks was absent—a clerk used to be sent expressly to Pickford's for their amounts—no other clerks have called for any of these accounts for the last two years, in a general way, unless they were sent expressly for it—I know from his own collecting books that there were sent some of the other clerks sent expressly for them—I have his books here—the book that I compared this entry with happens to be missing—I compared it with it at the time—the prisoner Has possession of it—I compared it after his suspension—he took the books away after his suspension—I have three collecting books here—I have made comparisons with these books, but I cannot go so far back as March the 30th; the book which he had for that is missing—on Saturday, when he settled for the week, he ought to have paid the money that he received that day—it did not, to my knowledge, sometimes go into the next week's account—(The remainder of the prisoner's books were here produced by the prisoner's attorney; Mr. Serjeant Ballantine put them, in.—this (handing one in, is the book with which I compared this 30th March—this item means received by him on 28th—the two books tally—when he paid me the sums mentioned

there, he was in the habit of showing me the collecting book—he did so on the 30th March, and I signed across it—there is not a much larger sum debited as received by himself from Pickford's; it is 84l. 9s. 7d.—there is not a much larger sum in the book—I was satisfied about it before I referred to his book—when he pays me, he enters the sums in this book of mine, and I sign across it—I have signed for that item, 25l. 0s. 7d.—I looked at the entries that I signed for—on 20th April, he paid me about 8 o'clock, or a little before, as near an I can recollect—he had paid something to Pouten on the up office account in that week—the sum he would pay to Ponten Would vary, sometimes 20l., from that to 60l., compounded of different items—he did not pay to anybody else that same week—those items were in this book with the others—the prisoner entered them in another book—Ponten would give him a receipt when he paid him; he would not sign across the book—there has been, at times, a complaint of a deficiency of clerks; in consequence of that we have had additional hands where they have been required—there was one put on to assist Fry sometime last January—Fry had not made a complaint that his duties were too onerous and that he wanted assistance—there was no complaint made, but the accounts were not made up so soon as we had expected—there have been clerks put on since Mr. Fry's suspension, but not for his duties—there are two clerks now discharging the duties that were cast on him; there were two in part of his time, since January; but prior to that he was assisted by Stanford—there have been other clerks put on in other departments, in consequence of complaints that have been made; not to assist Fry—I cannot exactly say how many—not half a dozen, I think; there might have been three—there has been one put in Fry's office in January and one before—there are the same number of clerks now doing Fry's duties—there are two—that was only since January—he was not in the habit of having a sum of money in hand, that I am aware of; I never knew it—I may have made a mistake in my accounts at times, not very often—I have not made mistakes that have never been able to set right—I have always put them right afterwards—I am not aware that mistakes have been made in the office that I have never been able to set right—I will not swear that I am not aware of them—it did happen once that there was a surplus of 300l. that I never could account for—it was paid over to the Company by me—I received an acknowledgement for it—I received 30l. from the Company—there was nothing said as to what it was for—I cannot say that that was paid to me because I handed over the 300l.—I can only imagine so—I was examined before, on the trial of Stanford—I might have said, "I handed over to the Company about 300l. surplus, which could not be accounted for, and they received it, and gave me 30l. for my honesty"—I cannot recollect now what I said—I took it for that—there have been other mistakes; not of my own, that I am aware of—some of them were previous to the complaints made on account of the deficiency of clerks—I once copied off the figures 60, as it originally stood; it ought to have been 100—a person named Grimsdick found that out—I afterwards set it right—that was a clerical error, a wrong figure put at the end of the column.

Q. I believe there have been other defalcations on the part of clerks, that you have settled or arranged, that the Company have not prosecuted? A. I do not know about any arrangement—in my brother's case it was not under mo—I paid a sum of 170l. to the Company for him—he was deficient in his accounts—the Company did not know of that; he was not under my staff—I paid it for him because he was my brother—the same thing happend"

except in the paying, to another clerk, named Crouch; that was not settled—he was discovered deficient in his accounts to the amount of about 160l.—his accounts were of a different character altogether—he was never prosecuted—I believe-be is in the service of the Company now—I cannot recollect now whether that was previous to the complaints of the insufficiency of clerks—it was discovered in the beginning of this year—I cannot say whether it was previous to those complaints or not—I have said that inaccuracies and mistakes were so likely to occur that a sum of 10l. a year ought to be allowed for them—I said it in Stanford's case—Fry was suspended on the 25th—he was collecting from the 20th to the 25th—immediately after his suspension, Mr. Haddow, a clerk, was employed to go over the accounts with him—he had not been down more than two or three days I believe, when Fry made the statement about the amount of his deficiencies—it was about nine days after his suspension, I believe, that he made the statement about the deficiencies—he was in the mean time in the office, going through the accounts by himself—I do not recollect any one assisting him—it was after he had been going over them some days that he made a statement about his deficiencies—he was never, that I am aware of, in the habit of lending money to other clerks on I O U's—it was not done by other clerks, to my knowledge—it was not done in Stanford's case, to my knowledge; I found out afterwards that it had been done—I know of no other' I O U's bat those of Stanford's—I have looked over the collecting book to Bee whether the three items that he is charged with embezzling are entered in it, and I have found them entered in it—I could always look at his collecting book when he had paid me the money—I could look at it when I wished—there were very rarely other clerks present when he paid me in the evening at the office—I had money to receive from other clerks, but I did not receive it from them at that time—I received from parties who called at the station to pay accounts; large amounts—they came in the day time to settle, not about the same time as the prisoner—there were no others who came to settle with me at the same time of the day as the prisoner; he generally was the only person who paid me in the evening—it never happened at that time, April last, that others paid me in the evening—it did not happen, in a general way, that ethers paid me at the same time as the prisoner—they did not pay me at the same time of the day—his was in the-evening; they were all gone then—it was in the day time that I was sometimes not there—I was always there in the evening—he invariably settled with me in the evening—it would be in the morning, before he went out, that he would pay to some of the other clerks in my office; that would be paying for the day before—that would be probably any morning in the week—those would be occasional accounts that he would have handed over to him—I do not know that I have any record of them here.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE Q. I believe your brother was in the employ of the Company at Southampton? A. He was—I had nothing whatever to do with him; no duty of making any report about him—I learnt that he was deficient, and I let him have the money—the prisoner had a pony and trap—he never complained, so far as I know, that his duties were greater than he could perform—300l. was the balance in favour of the Company that I found in my bands—that was not the exact sum—I have looked to that matter since the last trial—I should have in the course of my business a quantity of vouchers, showing the receipts of money by me—at the time I have spoken of I found that there was a balance of money beyond the amount of the vouchers—that was the way in which the sum of money Was

made up that I gave in favour of the Company—I have satisfied myself to a certain extent as to how that happened—I conclude that it was from inaccuracies in the entries of the clerks at the Nine Elms station; not at any other station—finding that sum of money in my hands I represented it to the traffic manager—it had been accumulating about eight years—the prisoner had nothing whatever to do with that accumulation; it did not affect him at all—the desirability of laying aside 10l. to meet deficiencies was not at all applicable to the duties of the prisoner—the prisoner has never throughout the investigation suggested that he has paid any one of those sums to my servants—I have now all the books to which I was desired to refer to come to a conclusion on the subject of this affair—this book which is before me, and my rough cash-book, would be the books present before me at the time I received that 2l. 8s. 11d. of 20th April, on the Saturday night—the book I have by me is the register of accounts to be collected—I should have a list of accounts handed to the prisoner for the purpose of collecting, and when he paid me over what he purported to collect, I should have that account then before me—I used to call out every item that was standing over, so that in the ordinary course of business I should call over Pantin's account; the prisoner having this book at the time with him—it was at the time I did so that he said Pantin's account was not paid—I did not hear Crouch desire him to collect the 1l. 7s. 6d.—that account did not pass me—the writing at the bottom of this page is the prisoner's—that entry shows that he was desired to make that collection by Crouch—having been so desired it would be his proper duty to account to him for it, and, being so, it would not be called out from the collecting-book—there is, in Fry's writing, No. 455 against thin item of Pantin's, and there is a reference to this entry in my book.

JOHN CROUCH . I am a clerk in the down office of the London and South Western Railway Company at Nine Elms—I gave two bills to the prisoner to collect these amounts, 12s. 6d. and 15s.—he has never accounted to me for either of these sums.

Cross-examined by. MR. RIBTON Q. Do you recollect when you gave them to him? A. Only by the bills, they are dated 2d April and-15th April, and I gave them to him within three days of those dates—I know that because I always make it a custom—I did not make it out on the 15th—I dated it the 15th because that is the date that the goods were forwarded—I made each of them out on the following day, I am quite sure of that; that is the custom which I have invariably adhered to—there may have been a mishap when it has been made out on the 2d day, or perhaps we could not do it the same day—I did not hand him other bills that day; I have no entries—I did not hand him these two at the same time—on the 2d or 3d, I handed him that bill which you hold in your hand—I cannot call to my recollection whether that was the only one—I keep no book which enables me to say what bills I handed to him that day—when the debt becomes due I make out the bill and hand it to Fry—I only handed him one that day—I am able to swear that because these two accounts were the only accounts he had to transact during the whole of April—there might be one or two small sums, but not one in a month—he paid me on the day or the day afterwards that he received it—I have not the book here in which he made the entry—he generally paid me in my office in the evening; after 6 o'clock when he returned from his collection—I have an office to myself—I have no recollection that he paid me any money in April; I cannot swear he did not—I cannot say as to March,

because I have not got the books here, but those documents which you have in your hand were not paid to me—I know that, because I have referred to the book—I was not desired not to bring the book here—I cannot say whether these are the only bills I gave him in April—I never had any deficiency or mistake iu my accounts—there was not a mistake of 200l. in my accounts—I was not in Court when Mr. Hagreen gave his evidence—I was not a defaulter of 257l.; I have never recognized such an account—I heard that the amount was 140l.—I am not aware that Mr. Hagreen has said that it was 257l.; it was said to be 140l.—it is about three months ago—they said that I was deficient 140l.—the accounts have not been in'acvestigated, and that matter remains in obscurity still, I believe.

RICHARD PONTEN . I am a clerk in the South Western Railway office, Nine Elms—the 7s. 10d., for which this is a receipt, should be paid to me by the prisoner—it has not been paid to me—it was his duty to receive the up accounts, of which this is one.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you give him this account? A. No; one of Mr. Hagreen's clerks did—it is the usual way of business to pay the up office accounts to me—if the prisoner paid it to me I should have given him a receipt in his collecting book—I have no book of my own in which he would make an entry; this is the book that I always sign—it is the prisoner's book for entering up office accounts—the small one is the collecting book, and the large one he keeps in my office—he made entries in it on Friday evening or Saturday morning, and he generally paid me on Saturday morning—Tuesday was the 23d—if he received it on the 23d it would be entered in the cash book on Friday, and he should have presented it to me on the Friday or Saturday, because he always paid me once a week—he does not put down the date when he receives the money—he paid me no money after the 20th; I know that because I should have it entered in his own book—I have no book in which I enter it—when I get the money I pay it over to Mr. Stanford, who has been convicted—I keep an account in this book (produced,) if I received money from the prisoner I used to enter it here—on 19th April, I received 60l. 6s. 4d. of the prisoner—I have no means of telling what items that was composed of; the book tells me that it was made up of six items—I mean to say that that is the last sum he paid me—Mr. Stanford was in the office when he was in the habit of paying me—I made these entries at the time I received them from the prisoner—this is my book; it is copied from something else—(MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. here stated that he should withdraw this part of the ease, as the books were not present.—I may have made some mistakes.

MR. RIBTON to. R. HAGREE Q. Have you got the small collecting book there for the 20th? A. Yes—these entries were made by the prisoner in the morning before he went out to collect—there is nothing to show whether he has received the money—he does not put "paid" by the side; but I call over the amounts, and ask him whether he has received them or not—he would take the bills out with him, and whether the money was paid or not he would leave the bill with the customer—he would come back without any bills, unless there was a disputed account.

CHARLES HARVEN . I made some inquiries of the prisoner as to the amount of his defalcations—I saw him at his desk in the office on 25th or 27th April, and expressed my surprise, as I thought he would be out collecting—I asked him if he also was in the scrape, referring to Stanford—he said that he was, unfortunately, and was making up his accounts—I asked him, after some few moments, if he could tell me how much the

amount of his deficiencies would be—he said it would be 200l. or more, and that he never ought to have been trusted with money, and he never could be trusted with money.

Cross-examined. Q. Did he say that he was a very bad accountant and found it very difficult to keep his accounts correct? A. No; I do not know that he had been going over the accounts; he appeared to be doing so—he said that he was making up his accounts—I am in the Company's service—I was not directed to look over the books, but it was part of my duty to do so; but not the prisoner's books, the books of the Nine Elms station—I had never gone through his books, but I had gone over the books of the station three months previously—I do not find a great many entries at Nine Elms—I have been employed by the Company fourteen years to-morrow.

GUILTY . of embezzling the. 2l. 8s. 11d. Recommended to mercy by the Jury on account of his character.— Confined Eighteen Months.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-906
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

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906. ROBERT TURNER FRY was again, indicted for embezzling the sums of 5l. 8s. 11d.,14l. 7s. 11d., and 1l. 3s. 2d., of his said masters; upon which no evidence was offered.


21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-907
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

Related Material

907. ROBERT TURNER FRY was again, indicted (with WILLIAM STANFORD ) for unlawfully conspiring to obtain from the London and South Western Railway Company divers of their monies; upon which no evidence was offered.


Before Mr. Baron wilde.

21st October 1861
Reference Numbert18611021-908
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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908. GEORGE CLIFT (27), and FREDERICK CLAYTON CLIFT (24) , Feloniously setting fire to a certain house, with intent to defraud the Globe Insurance Company.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. and, MESSRS. CLERK. and, METCALF. conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN PULLA . I am a builder, of Rose Villas. Montpelier-road, Peckham—I built some houses in Albert-road, Peckham—in July I had some semidetached houses, called Lansdowne-villas, two of which were, unoccupied—the adjoining house to the one in question was occupied by a family named Collis—I call them three-storied houses—the entrance to the house was at the side in the Albert-road; this (produced,) is a model of it—there was a stable at the side, which had been built by my previous tenant, who kept a pony and cart—there was no communication between the stable and the house when the house was let in July; you had to go round the back way—there was an entrance here for the carriage, but no communication from the middle—when you entered the house from the street you came along a passage—there were two solid brick walls; one fourteen inches thick, and the other nine inches—the wall at the back of the stable was nine inches thick, and there was another at right angles to it—one wall was against the other—they were each nine inches thick—here is the wall of the stable, and this is the wall of the house, which was fourteen inches thick—when you enter the passage to go to the house, you have not to go into a door; it is an arch—there is a half-briek wall opposite the door that separates the pantry or store closet from the entrance hall—when you go through that archway you come into the lobby where the staircase is—there were two parlours with folding doors—there was a closet under the staircase with a door and boarded floor—there were certain rooms above, and a kitchen built out behind, with a sloping roof—there was an entrance here into the

kitchen—the only way into it was from the kitchen, but I call it a store closet—the only entrance to that store closet in July was from the kitchen—a garden ran round the premises, and between Nunhead-lane and the passage was a piece of vacant ground belonging to me—about 13th or 14th July, Frederick Clift called upon me—he said he came about the house at Nunhead-lane, and wanted to take it for the accommodation of the stable; that he was living at 2, Harwich-cottages, Commercial-road, which I know very well, as I happened to build it; that he had no stable there, which was inconvenient, and he had to put his horse up at his brother's—we agreed on the rent, 30l. a year—my wife was present—he signed the agreement on the Monday, and paid half a quarter's rent in advance—on 16th George Clift called on me for the key by himself—my wife was present—I handed the key to my wife, and she gave it to him—no opening had been made at that time from the stable into the house—nothing was said by them about any intention to make an opening, or I should not have allowed it—I did not see the house again till alter the fire on 3d August—I did not then see that any opening had been made—having been at the fire, I went to George Clift's house, in Hardres-road, also called Lansdowne-villas—it is about a quarter of a mile from Frederick Clift's—it is a straight road, only you turn to the right a little—I was asked into the parlour, and saw both the prisoners—I said to Frederick, "There is my house burnt down; how did it happen?"—he said that he did not know; that they had gone to Waltham, and were not at home till half-past 11 that night—I said, "Where were your servants?" and he said, "They were dismissed the week before, and my wife was washing in the kitchen; my child had tumbled into a pan or tub of water, and had not been well since, and she had taken it to Doctor Dennis, in Southampton-street"—I said, "She might have found plenty of doctors it Peckham, without going to Southampton-street that time of night"—Southampton-street is about two miles from there—they said that they should have great losses, and Government particularly, because they could not get their contracts out—I said, "The Government always allow for accidents"—on 13th August, ten days afterwards, I went again to the house—I had been to it and examined it in the mean time, and had seen that a doorway had been made from the pantry to the stable—I saw both the prisoners at George Clift's house on 13th—I asked Frederick when he cut that doorway—he said that he cut it two or three days after he went into the house—I asked him why he cut it—he said that George told him he had done wrong by cutting it, as he ought to have asked my leave—I said that if he had I should not have allowed it to be done, as it affected my insurance—he gave as a reason for doing it that he was afraid of thieves—I said, "I never heard any of my tenants complain of thieves"—he said that he took a gun out one night after them—I said that it made it more easy for thieves to get in, if they had taken a tile off the stable—I asked him the name of the person who had cut the doorway—he said that he would not tell till he was forced to tell, on account of what Collis had said—I said to Frederick, "I let you that stable for your pony, chaise and trap, not for a warehouse"—George said that the stable was not high enough for the shafts of the chaise—he did not then tell me where he had kept the chaise since Frederick had taken the house—the wall had not been cut through by a tradesman, nor was the way which it was made good—it was merely a rough hole in the wall, and a bit of board round it; it was not done cleverly—Frederick said that he had lost sixty sovereigns, I believe it was, which he had to meet a bill—I said. "It is very strange; the firemen

have been sifting there above a fortnight, and have not found half a sovereign; the only money they found was a halfpenny."

Cross-examined by MR. SMITH, (for George Clift). Q. At the time Frederick came to take the house did he say what business he was? A. Yes; a quill merchant, and that he was carrying on a large business, and was supplying the Government and Woolwich Arsenal with quills; that he had a Government contract, supplying quills for the Armstrong guns in very large quantities, millions; but when he took the stable, he said nothing about taking it for that purpose—he said it was for the pony, chaise, and trap—I said, "I cannot see what you wanted a way through for at ill, because you could get into the kitchen so easily for the quills "—I did not speak about the manufacture of quills before he took the house—I have nothing about any manufacture—I pledge my oath that I handed the key to my wife, and that she gave it to George—there is a greengrocer in the neighbourhood with whom I occasionally deposited the key, and if it came there Foster's wife must have left it there—whenever I had a house to let he used to have the key—I cannot swear the key was not at Foster's; it is only my recollection—I believe the key was given to George Clift—I remember taking it from the nail myself, and giving it to my Missus; George was present then, and I saw my wife bund it to him—I have no recollection of saying to him that he could get the key at Mr. Foster's; nothing of the tort—my Missus went on the Saturday night before the Monday morning, and looked over the house—there are two entrances to the stable, one before and one behind—a door cut in the pantry in this way, would prevent the necessity of going out before or behind to get into the stable—Frederick told me that George had blamed him for having the door cut, that was on the 13th; the first occasion of my mentioning the door to either of them—they told me that they had lost all their books and papers in this fire; that they had insured the place and had not got the policies, but that they had lost all in their pockets—they did not tell me they were alarmed about the policies not being paid—they told me they had not had them—they did not mention that they should be ruined because they had not the policies—Frederick, I think, told me that he had the receipts in his pocket.

Cross-examined by MR. THOMPSON, (for Frederick Clift). Q. Do you say that you saw these persons twice after the fire? A. Yes; the date of the firstof those conversations was 3d August—I saw Frederick at George's house—my Missus did not go with me the first time; she did the second, which was Tuesday, 13th August, about 7 o'clock in the evening—I should say it was three or four days afterwards that I first gave an account of these conversations to any one; it might be longer—my Missus and I have frequently talked the matter over together—if you mean as to what we had got to say, we have not talked it over at all; it must be talked over, of course; we could not help talking it over—I was at Lambeth police-court—my account was given to Sergeant Collins—I cannot tell you the date of that—I know we were two or three times at Lambeth Police-court, but that was not till September—the first time that I gave an account of this transaction was when I was before the Magistrate at Lambeth Police-court: that was some weeks after the transaction I should say—that is a kitchen that you are pointing to, at the back of the house, used by persons in that class of life as an ordinary sitting-room—I was never in the house after I let it, until the day after the fire—the stable was built by a tenant of mine, not by me—they told me that that communication with the pantry into the

stable, was made by a jobbing man, fifty years old—there was a sill at the bottom that was put up, but I should say there was never a door to it—I was frequently on the premises after the fire, and frequently went among the ruins—I found the firemen in possession of the premises; sometimes there were two—I heard of sovereigns having been lost, when I went to see George Clift on the 3d, and I mentioned it—I had heard it before I heard it from them—when the house was taken a half quarter's rent was paid in advance up to September—I did not make any inquiries as to his character from his former landlord, because he referred me to his brother George—I heard nothing wrong of them from any one after they took the house—I made no inquiries particularly or generally—when Frederick said the door, was cut because of thieves, there had been no previous conversation about thieves, by anybody. to my knowledge.

SOPHIA PULLAR . I am the wife of the last witness—I was present when Frederick Clift called in July, about taking the house—he said he wanted it principally on account of the stable, for his horse and trap; it was agreed that he should have the house—a day or two after that, I gave up the key to George Clift, his brother—after the tire I was present with my husband at George's house—I remember something being said by my husband about the doorway being out—he asked them why it was out; they said to prevent thieves—they said there were sixty sovereigns in the house—I do not remember whether this was the 3d or 13th of August; it was some little time after the fire—my husband asked who cut the doorway, and the answer was that it was done by a man about fifty years of age—my husband asked who it was, but there was no further answer given—Frederick said he had been at Waltham on that day—I do not remember whether he said what time he returned.

Cross-examined by MR. SMITH. Q. Did he not nay it was principally on account of the stables that he took the house? A. Yes; and then he went on to say that he had a pony and trap, and that it was inconvenient to leave it at his brother's; that he no longer wished to put his brother to an inconvenience—I heard him say that he was a feather merchant, dealing largely in feathers and quills—he said this to my husband—he told him that he had a Government contract, and supplied quills in very large quantities—I know Foster, the greengrocer—he very frequently had charge of the key of that house—I gave the key to George myself; Mr. Pullar was present—I do not wish to swear more positively than that—the key was never returned to me after that—it was never in my possession after that.

OCTAVIUS RUSSELL FABIAN . I am a clerk in the Globe Insurance Office—on Saturday, 20th July, this year, the two prisoners came there to ma co an insurance upon property in certain premises—I cannot say which of the; a it was that first made a proposal to me to make an insurance—they were both there, and both talked about the matter—they proposed to insure 2500l. worth of quills which belonged to themselves, in a lean-to shed adjoining a house—there was also a further insurance of 300l. which they proposed to make on Frederick Clift's furniture—I asked them whether they had been previously insured—they said, "No"—I asked them their reason for then insuring, and they said that a friend of their's had lost considerably by the great tire—I asked whether there was any communication between the warehouse and the house—they said, "No"—I then said, "By what means do you enter?"—they said, "By a door on the outside"—they spoke of it as a warehouse—they gave me the address of the house—I knew that a Mr. William Collis, who is also a clerk in the Globe insurance Office, resided

in the same neighbourhood, and instructions were given to him to make a report with regard to the state of the premises—that was instead of sending a surveyor—on 23d August, a report was made by him—there were no noticed sent; but Mr. Frederick Clift called at the office to know, and it was then notified to him that the insurance would be accepted—he did not pay the premium then, but on the following day, on both policies—George was not with him then—7l., 14s. was the whole amount—it as 2,500l. on quills, and 300l. on furniture—the policies were not made out at the time.

Cross-examined by MR. SMITH. Q. Have you spoken a good deal to Collis about this matter? A. Yes; we had received a report from Collis—it wag not by my instructions that he went to the house—I made out the policy myself; neither of the prisoners were present when it was made out.

COURT. Q. Was the policy made out at the time of the fire? A. Before the fire—it bad not been delivered.

MR. SMITH. Q. Can you fix the date when you made out the policy? A. No; Collis was not with me when I made it out—I had spoken to him before I made it out—I recollect having asked the question about a communication between the stable and the house—I cannot say which it was that answered me—they were close together at the time, standing before the counter as any two would—I cannot say what distance they were apart—I swear that this conversation, with regard to the communication, was in such a tone that both could have heard it—they did not tell me how many entrances there were to the stable—I understood them to say the entrance was from a door on the outside—by that I should understand that not more than one door was mentioned—the reason they gave for their insuring was, that a gentleman of their acquaintance had lost considerably through the great fire, through being uninsured—they mentioned a name, but I cannot recollect what it was—I do not recollect whether they mentioned the name of Colonel Constable; they spoke of the place as a warehouse—they mentioned a time for sending some one to go over the premises—I fixed the day.

Cross-examined by MR. THOMPSON. Q. Did you make any memorandum of the conversation you had? A. No; I have my instruction book here which I take down at the time people make a proposal—the conversation was simply about the insurance—I should not put down all the detail of it, as to whether they had been insured before—this about the communication between the places, was put down from memory, after the fire had occurred.

Q. Then as a course of practice do you make out the instructions for tk party who goes to view the premises? A. Yes; I enter it in a book; in this case there were no written instructions—I do not draw up a report or make out written instructions for the party who goes to view—I do not direct his attention to any part of the premises—I did not in this cite tell him to ascertain the communication between certain parts of the premises—I may in some cases—I told him as to the value of the stock, and the value of the premises—he is supposed to know that he is to see whether they are dangerous premises or not—the question that I put as to the communication between the stable and the house, was to ascertain whether there was a risk of any lights or fires from the house—both of the prisoners talked—I know what was said, but I cannot identify which of them said it—the policies have been delivered—(referring to his book) they were delivered on 19th August, to Mr. Bartlett's clerk—Mr. Bartlett is a solicitor—the premium was paid on 24th July—I do not remember telling one of the prisoners, after the report of Mr. Collis had been received, that they might

insure for a larger sum if they liked—I do not remember any conversation of that nature.

MR. CLERK. Q. What was the time fixed for the inspection of the premises? A. They came on Monday, 20th, and they seemed anxious for tbem to be looked at soon, so I said I would endeavour to let some one come on Monday evening.

WILLIAM COLLIS . I am a clerk in the Globe Insurance Company-at the time this matter happened I resided at No. 1, Lansdowne-villas, next door to the house that was burnt—I was instructed on Monday, 22d July, to call at No. 2, Frederick Clift's house, to look over it—I went on the Monday evening, and saw Frederick Clift there—after some conversation with him about the quills, he took me into the stable; he took me through the back parlour and kitchen, round the back of the house, through the back entrance to the stable—we went out from the back kitchen through the passage outside the house—he said, "I am very sorry there is no other way; I must take you through the back of the house "—there were two entrances to the stable, one at the front and one at the back—I might have gone round by the front of the house, and gone in the same way—he said there was no way through the house, he was obliged to go out of the house—I was directed to ascertain whether there was any communication between the house and the stable—I asked him whether there was any communication—while I was in the stable I said, "There is nothing in that wall; are you sure the wall is perfect?"—he said it was—that was one of the principal things that I was directed to ascertain; whether it was a brick wall—I found that there wert quills in the bags which were there—the stable was full of them, within a short distance from the roof, and a narrow passage through, from the front to the back—the bales were packed against the house side, dote to the wall, a narrow passage being on the other side—I have not the slightest knowledge of the value of such goods; my object was to see that they were really there—after Frederick Clift had been at the house some little time, I knew him and Mrs. Clift by sight—on 2d August, the day of the tire, I saw Mrs. Clift, the wife of Frederick, between 5 and 6 o'clock—I crossed the road to come to my own house, and saw her with the child in a perambulator, standing in the path in front of the house—I think she was coming from the house; she appeared to be standing still—she told me her child had been taken ill, and she was going to take it to a doctor—I cannot say whether she went in the direction of George Clift's house after I left her—I do not recollect whether she moved—I did not see her go away with the child—I went out some little time after that, and afterwards heard of the fire.

Cross-examined by MR. SMITH. Q. Did you also go over the house to view the furniture? A. Not the whole of the house, only the bottom floor, parlours—I was not instructed generally to go over the house—I was told that the furniture in the house would be insured also; I did not go up stairs, I only went over the ground-floor parlours—there is no basement.

COURT. Q. Did you go to ascertain the value of the quills or furniture? A. No; only to see the nature of the premises, and to see that the goods were there—the house appeared tolerably well furnished.

MR. SMITH. Q. Did not Frederick say when he took you, "We can't go any other way, we must go through the house? A. Yes, he did—he said the only way to the stable was outside the house—there was no way through the house to the stable; that was before I had asked him anything about it—I live in the next house; with the exception of the stable, the two houses are

of similar construction: the outer wall against which the stable has been built being a thick wall—the bales and packages were placed against the wall nearest the house, not the outer stable wall—the feathers were piled to t certain extent against the wall; but I think if the door had been there. I must have seen it, above the feathers—the wall on the outer side was away from the house; it is a lean-to stable—I could have walked upright if I hid walked close against that wall—the height of the stable, is on one side, I think, about six feet, and on the other side, it is about two feet higher there is not a passage with feathers stacked on either side of it, only on one side—I know the position of the door that has been cut—if that door bad existed with the bales packed as they were, I think I must have seen the top of it—I did not measure within what distance of the roof the bales went; the door might have been there and escaped my observation, but I do not think it is likely—I swear that I asked him if the wall was perfect; it was one of my first questions when I reached the stable, if I recollect right; it in usual question to ask—of course I have spoken before about having asked him if the wall was perfect—I made a report in which I said that I was told it was perfect—I recollect my previous examination before the Magistrate—I understood it to be a perfect party wall, and that there was no communication; he did not use the word perfect, but he said there was no break in the wall, and that constitutes a perfect wall—I was told by Frederick Clift that there was no communication—I do not suppose I was on the premises more than a quarter of an hour altogether—I looked at several bales, and they appeared to be full of quills because the ends were protruding from the bales—they were not covered.

Cross-examined by MR. THOMPSON. Q. After you had viewed the premises and the stock, did not you tell Frederick Clift that if he pleased, he might insure for a larger amount? A. No; certainly not; I do not recollect anything of the sort—I do not recollect any conversation about the 2,500l. insured on the stock; I know that was the amount he proposed—I knew at the time I went to examine that that was the proposed amount; I bad a memorandum with me—I saw the premises the day after the fire; I law the remains of the quills—I said that a part of the remains of the quills mm the same sort as I had seen—I saw the, beat part of the quills when I looked at them—no books were shown to me, merely a paper, purporting to be Government contract.

JOSEPH COLLIS . I am the brother of the last witness—in July and Angust last I was residing with ray father and mother at No. 1, Lansdowneterrace, the house adjoining that in which the prisoner Frederick Clift lived—I had seen both the prisoners while we were there—I knew them well by sight—I recollect, in the month of July, seeing some vans bringing things to the house—I cannot say what day of the month or week it was—I should think it was in the beginning of the month—I did not see where any of the goods were placed—on 2d August I was at the Nunhead public-house, about half-past 9—I had gone to fetch the beer for our family's supper—that tavern is at the end of a lane called the Nunhead-passage, which leads near the premises where I and the Clifts lived—we generally sup about half-past 9 o'clock—while I was at the public-house waiting for my beer, I saw George Clift at the bar—when I entered the doorway be turned round to see who it was coming in—he could see me—upon that he went out—there was nothing in the way in which he went out that attracted my attention at the time—he merely went out when I went in—I went to the door to see which way he went—I saw him go in the direction of Nunhead-lane

—that is away from 'the house where his brother lived—as soon bad got my beer, I took it home—about ten minutes after that I heard an alarm of fire—it would not take me more than a couple of minutes to get home from the Nunhead Tavern—the distance is about eighty yards—it was about ten minutes, I should suppose, from the tine I saw George Clift go out of the public-house, to the time of the five—I ran oat, and saw fire coming out of the stables—I did not see anything more of George Clift that evening—I saw nothing of Frederick.

Cross-examined by ME. SMITH. Q. Who nerved you in the bar that night? A. Mr. Johnson—I cannot say how many others there were, in the bar—I should think about half a dozen—T believe George Clift was drinking when I entered—I have some recollection, but very slight, of seeing the glass in his hand—I had known his person well before that—I have talked about this matter since to my brother; a little, not much—I mentioned directly I got home that I had seen George at the public-house—I told my mother and father so—I just turned round to look at him—that was not to ascertain whether it was really George Clift or not—I was sure of the man—I knew he was one of our neighbours, and I had seen him next door, and I knew him well before the fire—I had no particular reason for turning round to look at him—I am aware that Frederick was the occupant of the house next to us—I cannot say how many times I had seen George at his house—I cannot say how often I had seen George before the fire; it was more than twice—I should not like to say bow many times—I knew he was the man that used to go next door—I cannot say how frequently—when he left he went in an opposite direction to our house.

MR. CLERK. Q. Had you seen George Clift with the van when it came? A. Yes; both the brothers were with it.

MR. SMITH. Q. How was George Clift dressed on this night? A: His coat was very much like mine, only darker; quite the same cut as this, and he had a hat on—I cannot say the colour of his trousers; they were dark.

WILLIAM JOHNSON . I am the landlord of the Nunhead Tavern, which about eighty yards from the house where Frederick Clift lived in August last—before the day of fire I had seen George Clift on one or two occasions in my house, and had spoken to him—he was at my house on the night of 2d August, the night of the lire—he called for some brandy—it was about half-past 9 o'clock—I was not able to serve him at that time—there were several round the bar, and he seemed anxious—I could not serve him—he left my house, shortly afterwards he returned, and then had some brandy—I served him myself—George is the man I served—when he had drunk the brandy he left the house—I do not recollect Joseph Collis being then that evening—it was about his usual time of coming in for his beer—in the course of that night I heard an alarm of fire—that was about seven minutes after I had served George Clift with the brandy—I sent my potman, Robert Ling, and one or two others to the fire at the time; they were playing at skittles.

Cross-examined by MR. SMITH. Q. Your knowledge of George Clift is by seeing him once or twice at your hart A. Yes—I heard the alarm of fire from seven to ten minutes after his leaving my house—he entered twice that night—I don't know that I spoke till the next morning of his having been there—it was some part of the next day—I think it was to my potman that I spoke about it—I do not know who the next person was—I had general conversation with the customers—I am a man of tolerably sober

habits—I am not frequently intoxicated; very seldom indeed—I and mypotman have not been drunk together occasionally—I have never to myknowledge had a fight with him when we have both been drunk.

MR. CLERK. Q. Were you sober on the present occasion? A. Yes, and Ling was perfectly sober.

EDWARD COX (Policeman, P 243). On the night of Friday, 2d August, I was on duty in Nun head passage, which runs from the Nun head Tavernup to the Albert-road, and crosses the Albert-road—there is a hedge on one Side of that passage—there is a bit of garden ground between that hedgeand the house which was occupied by Frederick Clift, where the fire was—I was on duty that night in Nunhead passage about a quarter to 10—while there I heard the sound of footsteps from the back of the hedge—Iwas looking in the opposite direction from the hedge when I heard the footsteps—I looked in the direction of a gap, and saw a man step from the gap into theroad—I was standing nearer the gap than the Albert-road—I was about a dozen yards from the gap, I should think—the personwent in the direction of the Albert-road—he passed me—I looked at him—I believe it to be George Clift—I do not swear positively, but I believeit to be the same—when he got to the Albert-road, he turned to the left—he walked round the comer—I did not see him run at all—when he got round the corner I saw no more of him—a short time after he passed me I saw a light in the stables; a faint light at first, between the tiles—I was still standing in the Nun head-passage, but I had moved from the position I was in when I first saw the man—while I was looking, the light suddenly brightened up—that was not more than a minute after the man had passed me—when I saw the light get brighter, I ran round the corner and shouted out "Fire"—I ran to the Albert-road, round the front of the house—I looked at the front of the house—there is a fanlight over the door, inside—this (referring to the model) stands open—it is a sort of porch—the door in behind, in the recess—there is a fanlight over the door in the recess—the door was fastened—I saw a light of fire through that fanlight—while I was seeing that, a boy named Thomas Oliver came up to me—I knocked at the knocker—there was no bell—I could make no one in the house hear—Oliver was close behind me soon after I got to the door—I sent him for the engines—no one entered the door till the inspector arrived—I did not look into the stable while the fire was going on; not till after the roof had fallen in.

Cross-examined by MR. SMITH. Q. How was the man dressed that you saw leave the gap of the hedge? A. In a dark coat and hat—I believe his trousers were dark—I had been on that beat about a fortnight—I do not recollect seeing the prisoner George before—I don't swear positively who that person was—I did not observe anything in his hand at all—he might have had any small thing in his hand on the off-side from me—he had nothing that I could see in the hand next to me—he came towards me, and passed close by me—I observed nothing in the hand next to me—I could see his face as he came towards me—I do not swear positively that it was George Clift—I saw some furniture handed from the house daring the progress of the fire—I could not say what amount—I do not remember any chairs, or what furniture it was—it was not a good deal of furniture—I do not know the men who handed it out of the house, they were strangers to me—they had not entered by the front door, they must have entered from behind, and the front window—I saw two or three men get in at the front window—Ling, the potman, was one—I cannot say who was the first that

ere, it was all confusion—I cannot say that Ling was the first—I recollect the engine coming up and playing on the house—it played on the fire—I believe it chiefly played on the house first—I cannot my particularly where it played—it was through the tiles of the stable that I first observed the fire—there was a bright light in the passage when I got to the front of the house, as if it was on fire—it shone brighter through the glass than the light did through the tiles—the main body of the fire did not appear to be in the house.

Cross-examined by MR. THOMPSON. Q. Were you there before the postman? A. Yes; I saw him looking through the tiles—I had not looked there previously.

COURT. Q. Did you ever look through the tiles before the roof fell in? A. No.

MR. CLERK. Q. Where was the furniture carried to that was taken out of the house? A. At first they left it in the front garden, and then, as the fire increased, they were obliged to take it across the road to the Alms' Houses.

THOMAS OLIVER . I live at Nunhead, Peckham—on the evening of 2d August I was in the Albert-road—it was about a quarter to 10 when I got there—I saw a man running from the road, called the Nunhead-passage, at the side of Lansdowne villas—that leads down to the Nunhead-tavern—I was coming down the Albert-road from Nunhead-lane—at the corner of Nunhead-lane, in the Albert-road, there is the house of a Mr. Brindle, whose garden runs along the side of the Albert-road—the man went near the garden, and as he passed it, some one called out from the garden, "Hi, hi! I' ll be after you"—the man who was running had not passed me then, he was about opposite me—he was coming past me running—he quickened his pace when that was called out—when he got to the corner of Albert-road and Nunhead-lane, he turned to the right, up Nunhead-lane, in the direction of Mr. Goodwin's house—I beard an alarm of fire not more than a minute or two after he turned into Nunhead-lane—I went to the door of No. 2, Lansdowne-villas, and Cox, the policeman, was there—he seat me fee the parish engine.

Cross-examined by MR. SMITH. Q. Where was it you first caught sight of the man that you say was running? A. Just coming from the road of Nunheadpassage to cross the Albert-road—he went immediately over to Mr. Brindle's side—that is in the Albert-road—I did not see him in any part of Nunhead-passage; but I saw him turn the corner of it, running—he was running, not walking, when I first saw him—I did not see him start from a walk to a run—I noticed him as he passed me—I am not able to swear who it is—I did not see him throw anything, though I was looking at him.

FREDERICK MATTLEY GOODWIN . My father, Mr. Samuel Goodwin, carries on business as a grocer, in Nunhead-lane—I assist him—I knew the prisoners by sight, before 2d August, as residing in our neighbourhood—I have seen them both walking together in that neighbourhood—I did not know their names then—I had seen Frederick come out of 2, Lansdowne-villas—on the night of 2d August, I was standing half-a-down yards from my father's door; not in the road—it was about twenty-five minutes to 10 o'clock, as near as I can guess; within the half hour and the quarter at all events—I know Thomas Oliver by sight—I had not seen him that evening—while I was standing there I saw George Clift pass me—he was not going at a very fast run; but it was as a person might run if they were trying to overtake an omnibus—he was not running very fast—he was coming from the direction of Albert-road, and going towards the Rye.

COURT. Q. You did not see him come out of the Albert-road? A. I did not; but I saw him coming from the direction of it—our house is a very little way from the Albert-road, about fifty yards.

MR. CLERK. Q. How for was it from your door that you first saw him? A. It was a little peat a lamp-post, which was on the opposite side of the road—he was in the middle of the road—I know Littlefield-lodge, where Mrs. Soper lives—I did not see the person running before he passed Mrs. Soper's—he was nearer me than Mrs. Soper's when I first saw him—T caused say whether, when he passed me, he went into the Edinburgh-tavers, which is on the same side of the way as ours, or whether he went round the corner—I know now that George Clift lived in Hardres-lane—I did not see any other person running along that road about that time—about five minutes, I should say, after T saw George Clift run past, I heard an alarm of fire—I did not at first go down in the direction—I heard a further cry of "Fire l" and went down in the direction of Lansdowne-villas—I went to the fire, and found the policeman there—I went round to the back of the house—I got over the wall into the garden—I opened the door then (referring to the model), and then opened the next one to it—that door took me into the back-kitchen—on getting in there, I saw only the reflection of the light from the communication door on the right-hand side—I do not know whether that is the door going into the store-cupboard or pantry—I cannot say whether it was open or shut; I did not notice—I only saw the reflection of the flame, nothing else—I came out at the door again, and come round to this other door, here—there was a great deal of smoke in the kitchen—I went to a glass door which opens on to the garden—I broke that in and got into the hack-parlour—there was a fire at the farther end of that parlour, on the left-hand side, by the folding doors—that door was open—the fire was burning on the inside of the door, inside the room in which I was—I cannot tell what it was that was burning, but I pulled something away like matting, that was on fire—that was the heap that I saw—it was on the floor of the parlour—there was no fire in the fireplace it all.

COURT. Q. Was this heap war the fireplace? A. It was on the opposite side of the fireplace, near the corner door—it was about the size of that cushion (pointing to one)—it was flaring up—I, took hold of it, at least I went on my hands and knees to it—it seemed like either matting or carpet; it was some loose stuff—it was not the carpet of the room—there was a distinct carpet on that room—I took that up afterwards—this was some loose stuff alight on the carpet—I am sure of that.

MR. CLERK. Q. Did you drag out a bit, which you gave to Robert Ling? A. Yes; and then I set to work and dragged the carpet which was on the floor, out of the room—I went round afterwards to the front of the house, and saw some furniture taken out—I did not go into the stables—the fire was on Friday—on the Monday previous, July 29th, I saw a van, I should think about twenty minutes post 7 in the morning, in Peck bam-grove, which is about a mile and a half from Lansdowne-villas—it was going in the direction from Lansdowne-villas—both George and Frederick were with it, and also the carman, whom I did not notice—the van was loaded with sacks containing feathers—I do not know where Mr. Denton's premises are.

Cross-examined by MR. SMITH. Q. You endeavoured first to enter by the back kitchen? A. Yes; that is the entrance by the door which leads into the kitchen from the garden—the place was not very full of smoke, but there was smoke there—it was so bad that I was obliged to go back that way—

the smoke drove me back—I cannot say whether there are two doom in that room; I did not notice—I saw a reflection in the direction of that door—it was somewhere about that corner—I could not say distinctly where it was I—saw the place after it was burnt down—I do not recollect two doors that were in that corner—that door leads on to the staircase—I was the first to enter that back parlour—I burst the door open with my foot—I did not notice the state of the lock—the door was fastened—I shook it two or three times to see if it would come undone—I tried the handle—I have not talked this over with William Collis more than with others—I am not very intimate with him—I am not in a rifle corps—I have spoken to him about the matter—I did not see any one enter by the front window—the folding-doors were closed when I was there—I cannot say whether they were fast; I did not try them—I never went into the front parlour—the furniture that I saw in the back parlour was not very good—it might have cost perhaps 20l., 30l., or 40l.—it was furnished in the ordinary way—I cannot say whether they had only been in the neighbourhood a short time before the fire—I had only seen them there lately—I had seen them perhaps twenty times before the fire—I have seen them both together sometime, and sometimes singly—I cannot say bow many times—I bad never spoken to them—I only knew them by sight—it wax in August, and about twenty-five minutes to 10, that I saw George Clift—it was dusk—the gas-lamp was lighted on the opposite side of the way—there were two or three neighbours standing with me at the time George passed—I think the butcher was one of them; he was standing very close to me—I was talking to the butcher that evening.

Q. Have you not asked the butcher if he did not remember about a vagabond that ran just you? A. I never mentioned a vagabond at all—I have spoken to the butcher about this—it is the butcher living next door to me—I may have asked him if he did not see George Clift run by—he never told me that he was with me, and did not see him.

MR. CLERK Q. Did you say anything to the butcher alter George Clift ran by you as to who the man was? A. I did, the same night, after I got down to the fire—there was an ordinary butcher's light clone to us, burning outside the shop.

COURT Q. You say you heard an alarm of fire five minutes after you saw this man run down the road? A. About five minutes—I went to the house at once, from where I was standing—it would be about a couple of minutes' walk—I am sure I went at once, at the second cry of "Fire"—I should have got to the house somewhere about within ten minutes of when I saw the man running—it was a glass door that I opened with my foot—that was the one that I tried and could not open—I burst it open with my foot—the folding doors of the room, where I found the bundle on fire, were shut—the other door, leading to the staircase, was open, I believe.

ROBERT LIN . I am potman at the Nunhead tavern, Nunhead-groves, Peckham—I remember the alarm of fire being given on 2d August—I ran off to the house, and, when I came to it, I saw Cox, the policeman—the front doors were fastened—I got on to the wall that runs from the front gate to the lower wall which leads up to the stable, and looked into the stable—I saw flames coming up-through the tiles—I took up some of the tiles, and saw some sacks with something in them, standing on the floor—some bass mats and pieces of sacking were lying all about in the stable—I noticed the place which had been cut through into the house; and just inside the pantry were some bass mats lying in a heap right on the threshold—from the pantry to the stable it was in flames—I noticed other loose bags in the

stable on top of the full bags—they were not on fire when I went in; but just a little way from the doorway the sacks were on fire—the body of the fire was on the threshold—the flames came up through the tiles from that heap—the stable appeared to be filled about two or three feet high from the floor, standing up; the upper part was empty—I could have ran across by stooping—I next went round to the back—I jumped over from Mr. Foster's field, and in at this door—I locked this back door into the pantry—I noticed the fire burning at the doorway which leads up into the stable—it was then feeding upon the mats which were lying just at the back of the door—I noticed some pieces of loose bass matting, such as furniture is wrapped in, scattered about on the kitchen floor, from the fireplace to the doorway leading to the stairs—it was lying all the way, but it was not on fire all the way, but only against the fireplace and under the stairs; the intermediate part was not burning—there was no fire in the grate—it was not so very big a heap under the stairs—I could see the matting; it was not packed up, it was not above a foot high—I next went into the back garden, and saw Mr. Goodwin trying to pull some of the things out—I went up the staircase—some loose rags were lying at the foot of it—we picked up a piece of a pillow-case—there were not so many of those pieces as there were in the other rooms at the back—I mean loose rags and mats—I holloed to find whether anybody was in the house, but could find nobody except those who came to put the fire out—I saw no furniture up stairs; there was a bed in the back room doubled up, and lying on the floor—it did not look much like a bed; it laid in a lump—I took it in my hands so—I saw no bedstead, nor any sheets or blankets, except a sheet which the bed was rolled up in; beyond that, there was no furniture up there at all—I went into four room, two above and two below—I went to the top floor first—I went into all the rooms I could find—after I came down the fire was burning considerably—I got burnt, and have scars on my legs now—there were some chairs and tables in the front parlour, and some in the back parlour.

Cross-examined by. MR. SMITH Q. Do I understand you to say you never saw a bedstead throughout the whole house? A. No; my object was not to look after furniture but after persons—I only went about two or three feet inside—I did this in the greatest possible haste, to save life—the smoke was ascending the stairs—there was a fire at the foot of the stairs when I came down—the sacking where the fire was, laid close against the stairs, and the smoke from it would ascend the stairs—I judge the two distinct fires to have been about three feet apart—the fire had not spread beyond just inside the door, and I was at the furthest corner from the door, leading into the pantry—went round by the kitchen, and again caught sight of the same fire—Godwin was over the house before me—I did not see anybody up stairs.

Cross-examined by. MR. THOMPSON Q. How long have you been working at the tavern? A. Eight or nine years; not as potman all the time—directly after I came down stairs the stairs fell in—I ran up and down very quickly.

JOSEPH GROVE BRINDLE . I live at Nun head-lodge, Peckham, at the corner of Albert-road and Nunhead-lane—my garden runs on the side of Albert-road—on Friday evening, 2d August, I was in a water-closet at the side of my garden, and heard a sound something like a plate thrown at the fruit tree—I cried out, "Hoy, hoy! I will be after you!" and heard a person running away—I had not heard footsteps before—it is not a wall, but a feuce about six feet high—I heard the person go up towards Nunhead-lane, that is, towards Mr. Goodwin's, the grocer's—Mrs. Soper lives at the opposite

corner of Nunhead-lane to my house—soon after I was called out in this way, I heard an alarm of fire, perhaps in a minute or two; there was sufficient time for me to go from the water-closet into the Albert-road—I went into the Albert-road, and could see that there was a light in the house—I did not remain in the water-closet a minute after I heard the person run—after the fire had subsided, I walked down my garden to the place where I had heard something thrown over, and picked up this candlestick (produced,) which was lying in the path, about twelve yards from the closet—I gave it to the constable.

THOMAS KNOTT . I am in the employ of Mrs. Soper, of Littlefield's-lodge, at the corner of Nunhead-lane—I was in her garden, which is between the house and the road, on the morning after the fire, and found a key wrapped up in a white pocket-handkerchief—I gave them to my mistress the same day, and afterwards saw her give it to Baxter, the fireman—about a week afterwards I found another key in the garden, about a span from the other; on the mould in a bed of flowers—I gave that to a man in white trousers who was washing the house, I do not know his name.

RICHARD HENDERSON . I am foreman of the fire-brigade, and live at 102, Southwark-bridge-road—I got to the fire about 11 o'clock—the house was quite gutted, and the floors bad fallen in—I examined the stable next day, and saw the marks where the quills had been put against the wall to about three feet high, and in some places higher—the stable had been limewashed, and the mark where the fire had acted on the lime-wash was distinctly visible in three places on each side—I have been forty-two years in the brigade, and have examined the remains of numbers of houses, but I never knew an instance, where feather beds have been in a house, where we did not find some of them—here are the remains of two beds, but there is not the sign of a feather among them; it is part shavings and part flock—other firemen were left in charge of the premises the whole time I left—Hackridge took charge of the premises on the night of the fire, and Baxter was there next day—he will tell you more than I can about it.

Cross-examined by. MR. SMITH Q. Was the fire burnt out? A. Yes—the rafters and joists fell in—I do not think it likely that In such a fire the feather beds would be destroyed—I should say that a flock bed would not burn so easily as a feather bed.

JOHN BAXTER . I am foreman at the Waterloo-road station—on the Saturday morning, at 8 o'clock, I went to 2, Lansdowne-villas, and found Huckridge and Howard in charge—I remained in charge of the premises alone—nothing was removed from the house that day—I went into the stable that day; there was no remains of a door between the stable and the pantry; there was a piece of the framework of a door, and the door-sill is there now—the stable floor is paved with flat stone—there were not more than two feet of quills in depth in the stable, they were pretty nearly level—the stable roof had all fallen in, there was not a rafter left—it was lying among the quills—there was a large quantity of quills not consumed—there was a coal closet under the staircase—I came across it in working the ruins—the flooring of it was whole, except a hole burnt through the middle of it between the rafters, about a foot square; it is there now—on the day after the fire, about half-past 10 o'clock, the prisoners came to the house—I asked them who they were—Frederick said he was the occupier of the house, and said, "This is my brother"—they said that they were at Waltham Abbey on the previous evening on business, and left by the 10 o'clock train—George said that, I believe—he said, "We were at Waltham Abbey, and left

by the 10 o'clock train"—Frederick said that the first he heard was meeting his brother's servant, who told him about it—on that same Saturday Thomas Knott gave me this key (produced,) done up in a handkerchief—I searched for the locks of the back and front doors, but could not find them—I found the lock of the stable at the garden end and this key fitted it—I received another key from Crowson, the man on duty with me—I had previously found another lock in the stable, close by the folding-doors of the stable or coach-house; it fitted, but the lock was nearly all to pieces—I showed these two keys to Mr. Puller, the landlord—while searching about I found, among the quills, this piece of burnt paper with peculiar marks on it (produced,—I took it for a glazed table-cover at first.

Cross-examined by. MR. SMITH. I believe you made a very careful search over the premises? A. Yes; and found a great many remains—I made this list of them (produced,) there were twenty-two bed screws, the remains of a bedstead, a halfpenny, four castors of an easy chair, three ditto for table, four ditto for conch not burnt, two springs of easy chairs, eight small locks, two small Bibles, and two other books, the remains of some boots, sheets, and quilts, but no remains of bed or blankets, the remains of a coat and wearing apparel, a flannel-petticoat, one coat-button, one waistcoat ditto, the remains of a gun, and of a cash-box, and the iron frame of a portmanteau—in the kitchen I found the remains of ten dozen wine bottles, five tea spoons, and the remains of some crockery and cooking utensils—the screws are about the size that go into wooden beds, you might suppose that they had belonged to a wooden bedstead—I found this bit of oil-cloth by the wall of the stable.

Cross-examined by. MR. THOMPSON Q. You Say that you found a hole under the staircase? A. Yes—the supports and remains of the staircase fell down perpendicularly.

WILLIAM COLLIN . (Police-sergeant, P. 4). I first went to the premises on Monday, 5th August—the prisoners came there, and I had some conversation with them—I said that it was a very bad job, and asked Frederick how he accounted for it—he said that he did not know, he was not at home; he and his brother were down at Waltham Abbey—that they left home just after dinner and went to see Mr. Moore, at the East-end, and from thence to Waltham Abbey to see a Miss Clayton, and make some inquiries respecting the character of a female servant—that they called at the Cock Inn and returned to London by the 10 o'clock train, and arrived at Peckham at half-past 11, and at that time the house was burned down—the prisoners were close together when Frederick made that statement—George heard it—they said that they had a quantity of quills home from the ship, and filled the place to the top; that they had all been destroyed by fire, and that they bad not removed or sold any at all since they had been there.

Cross-examined by. MR. SMITH Q. Had you heard of Frederick Clift's house being robbed previous to the fire? A. Yes—I went there once only in that case—that was about nine months ago, or, perhaps, not so much; I would not say to a month either way.

Cross-examined by. MR. SLEIGH Q. Were you at the police-court when this matter was inquired into there? A. Yes—I was not examined—the conversation I have spoken to, occurred on the Monday following the fire—the prisoners were remanded two or three times—Crowson, one of the firemen, was present at the conversation—he was not examined at the Police-court—that conversation was not in the presence of any witnesses who were examined at the Police-court.

MR. CLERK Q. Did the Magistrate direct that no more witnesses should be examined in the case? A. Yes; Mr. Sleigh was there attending for the prisoners—there were several other witnesses who did not give their evidence at the police-court, because there were plenty of witnesses to commit him for trial—there was no complaint that the rest had not been examined.

WM. CROWSON . I am a fireman—I was with Sergeant Collins at the ruins on 5th August—I let the prisoners in—as soon as they got in Sergeant Collins asked them whether they could account for it—Frederick said no, he was not at home; that they left home just after dinner, and went to see a Mr. Moore at the East-end, on business; and from there to Waltham Abbey to see Mr. Clayton to inquire into the character of a servant-girl they were going to employ—I heard no more as I was called to the other end of the premises—I heard Sergeant Collins ask them whether quills or anything had been removed from the premises since they had occupied them—they said that nothing had been removed since they had possession of the place—he asked him that question twice in my presence.

THOMAS ALEXANDER ROBERT . I carry on business under the firm of Brown and Roberts, auctioneers and assessors of loss to Fire Insurances—I have had considerable experience in that way—I saw this claim signed by the two prisoners—it is signed August 13, 186l.—the first item is 600,000 foreign quills, value 10s. 6d. per thousand at the time of the insurance, but cannot now be purchased at any price, 361l.; 80,000 swan quills at 16s.; 24 lbs. of sable hair, 307l. 4s.; and a quantity of matting, estimated value 7l. 10s.; total 4,104l. 14s.—I went to the stable and saw the character of the quills that were unconsumed—quills are not easily consumed, a portion only burn; they frizele, but a portion is sure to remain—there were bundles of complete quills only smoked—assuming that they had been the best class of quills, and estimating the cubical contents of the stable, if filled, at about 18,000 bales, the value would be about 99l., that is, taking them at 1s. a thousand, 5l. 10s. a bale, but I am not a quill merchant—the quantity I actually saw were a mixed quantity—I have had them counted, the greater part were tied up in bundles of 100—there were no swan quills among them; I examined to see, and could not find one—they could not have been consumed—the prisoners told me that they had been to Mr. Clayton's at Best-hill, Waltham, and that Mrs. Clayton was related to George Clift's wife—I was questioning George about where the door was made, and he pulled something out of his trousers' pocket, and told me that it was the receipt for the insurance.

Cross-examined by. MR. SMITH Q. Have you got the dimensions of the stable down. A. Yes; I make it 18 feet 4 inches inside, the width 8 feet, the height on one side 8 feet 1 inch, and on the other side 6 feet 3 inches; the cubic feet contained in it are 1,051—a bale of the large sized foreign quills contains 110,000—a bale measures 5 feet 10 inches long, 3 feet wide, and 2 feet 5 1/2 inches deep, that would contain 42 1/4 cubic inches—there is a passage through the stable which takes off 220 cubic feet, and I have taken that off—if packed long ways, that passage would hold 18 bales, and if the other way 19 bales—I think that 19 would be the outside—1s. a thousand is the price I am told the quills are worth—swan quills are much dearer, they are very expensive.

Cross-examined by. MR. THOMPSON Q. I believe your experience is in respect of all descriptions of property? A. Yes, generally, and not in particular—if the stable bad been quite full of the best quills we found there, it would not have amounted to more than 100l. in value—from, the

debris of the quills there is no question that they were of a moderate quality—a quill does not consume entirely—it is almost impossible to burn any quantity of quills when they are tied together—the debris of consumed quills is counted in this quantity—I can undertake to say very nearly what quantity of quills were or were not burnt, but linen and clothing is another thing—we sometimes find remains of clothing when we do not find linen—I knew Benjamin Watkins, a quill merchant of Cannon-street, he is a gentleman of experience in these matters—if he should say that this building if full might have contained 1,000l. worth of quills, I certainly should not differ from him—I said if it was filled with the best quills found there it would only be worth 99l.

MR. CLERK Q. You say that quills are very difficult to destroy, is this (produced,) a burnt bundle of quills, found on the premises? A. Yes; this is the sort of appearance they present after being burnt—that enables me to speak of their value; but I always get the opinion of a man in the trade—there were a good many of this quality (produced,) they are duck quills.

BENJAMIN FOX WATKINS . I am a quill merchant, carrying on business in Cannon-street—I have been many years in the quill trade, and had large experience in it—after the fire at Frederick Clift's house, I was asked to examine the quills—I went to the house and saw there some foreign quills and English duck quills—the foreign quill is a quill known in the Russian trade by the name "Six loth"—10th is a weight; six loth is half an ounce—they are made up in bales when they come from abroad—there are 100,000 in a short bale—the value of those foreign quills would be 1s. 3d. per 1,000—that is the best quality that I saw there—there was a considerable quantity of what we call the duck quill—they are sold by the pound—the value of them would be generally about 6d. a pound—I cannot say how many go to a pound—quills are not things that are usually utterly destroyed in a fire—I have had a fire; in that case it left part of the quilt by which I could judge of their value—80,000 swan quills is an enormous quantity to have—I did not see the remains of one swan quill on the premises—I should value the quantity of the 600,000 quills which I saw on the premises, at 37l. 10s.

Cross-examined by. MR. SMITH. You saw the main bulk? A. Yes—they had been disturbed at that time—the top of the quills had been removed from the shed into the house—I have not made a calculation of how many bales that shed would hold—about thirty cubic feet would be the dimensions of one of the bales I have spoken of.

Cross-examined by. MR. SLEIGH Q. Would that place contain 1,000l. worth of quills of the best quality? A. Yes—we have quills at 80s. a thousand—assuming that there had been quills there of the best quality, that building would contain at least 1,000l. worth—the quills that are used for the Arsenal are the smallest quality that is sold—that is a very lowpriced quality—the best quality, the large swan quills, are required for writing.

WILLIAM BENJAMIN DENTON . I am an oil merchant, residing at 95, Albany-road, Camberwell—I have known the two prisoners from September, 1860—they occupied part of a warehouse on my premises for the purpose of warehousing quills, which they dealt in—there are some quills there now—they removed a quantity about May or June, I should think it must have been; there might have been some removed in July.

THOMAS HENRY SHORN DO . I am a carman, and reside at 17, Gloucester-place,

Albany-road, Camberwell—I know both the prisoners—I do not remember Sunday, 28th July—I remember the fire that occurred at Frederick Clift's house, at Lansdowne-villas; that was on a Friday—I remember the Sunday before that I did not see either of the Clifts then—on the Saturday night, previous to my moving the quills on the Monday morning, I met George Clift—he asked me if I would do the job, and of course I did so; but what date that was I will not be sure, but it was the Monday previous to the fire—I took those quills to 10, Gloucester-place, Albany-road, Camberwell—I filled the van, my van is like a dog cart; it measures about 5 feet 10 inches by 3 feet 3 inches—I had two of Mr. Clift Sales on that day; they are very large; I could only put one of them on my van—there were two large bales and a few small bags, and they made up my load—I took that from the stable in Lansdowne-villas to the place in Albany-road, on the Monday previous to the fire, and left them there.

EDWARD BOULTON . I am a greengrocer and carman—on 30th July, I carted away three bales of quills from No. 1, Gloucester-place to Lansdownevillas, Hardres-road, by Frederick Clift's desire.

Cross-examined by. MR. SLEIGH Q. When was it? A. On 30th July or 1st August—I had previously taken quills from Lansdowne-villas to Mr. Clift's house—I had not often worked for them—I had only carted things twice for them—it was on the 19th July that I took some quills there; the quantity I took there was larger than what I took away—I took five bales there, and on 30th August I took away three bales—I had no means of seeing what quality they were.

THOMAS COOMBER . I keep a beer-shop in King-street, Borough-road—I bought a cart and harness of the prisoner, Frederick Clift, in the summer of this year—I have a receipt (referring to it.—it was on 8th June.

WILLIAM BACON . I reside at 5, Coburg-place, Old Kent-road—on 10th July, the prisoners came to my house with a pony, which I bought; here is the receipt.

GUILTY .—Strongly recommended to mercy by the Jury, in consequence of their youth, and position, and family.

Ten Years' Penal Servitude.


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