Old Bailey Proceedings.
22nd October 1860
Reference Number: t18601022

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Old Bailey Proceedings front matter.
22nd October 1860
Reference Numberf18601022

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Sessions paper.








Short-hand writers to the court,








Law publishers to the queen's most excellent Majesty.




On the Queen's Commission of the Peace,



The city of London,





Held on Monday, October 22nd, 1860, and following days.

BEFORE the Right Hon. JOHN CARTER , F.A.S. and F.R.A.S. Lord Mayor of the City of London; the Right Hon. Sir Frederick Pollock, Knt., Lord Chief Baron of Her Majesty's Court of Exchequer; Sir Samuel Martin, Knt. one of the Barons of Her Majesty's said Court of Exchequer; Sir Hugh Hill, Knt. one of the Justices of Her Majesty's Court of Queen's Bench; Sir John Musgrove, Bart; Thomas Challis, Esq.; Sir Francis Graham Moon, Bart. F.S.A.; and David Salomons, Esq; M.P. Aldermen of the City of London; Russell Gurney, Esq. Q. C. Recorder of the said City; Sir Henry Muggeridge, Knt.; Warren Stormes Hale, Esq.; and William Lawrence, Esq. Aldermen of the said City of London; Thomas Chambers, Esq. Common Serjeant of the said City; and Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq. Judge of the Sheriff's Court of the said City; Her Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer and General Gaol Delivery of Newgate, holden for the said City, and Judges of the Central Criminal Court.









A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoners age.


OLD COURT.—Monday, October 22d, 1860.


Before Mr. Recorder.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-833
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

833. THOMAS HOMEWOOD (24), GEORGE KELLY (30), GEORGE TIMOTHY (29) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Richard Carpenter, with intent to steal.

MR. LAWRENCE conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN SUTHERLAND (Police-sergeant, K 46). On the morning of 30th August, I went to Mr. Carpenter's shop, 68, Cannon-street-road, St. George's in-the East, a pawnbroker—I found a hole bored about the centre of the shop shutters—I put the middle finger of my right hand in as far it would go and it went nearly to the glass—there was a lamp about fifteen yards off I saw some sawdust on the pavement right under the hole in the shutters—I went away and saw Walker and Franklin; Franklin was in plain clothes—I put him in a doorway about an hundred yards down on the opposite side of the street to watch the premises—I sent Walker to the back of the premises and then went away to get other policemen—I examined the shop next morning and found a hole bored through-the shutters and the iron plate, which is about 1/15th of an inch thick—it went through a second iron plate, and I could get the second joint of my little finger through—the plate-glass window was broken—this (produced) is a piece of it; the whole of one pane was broken—it was 2 ft. 11 in. by 2 ft. 8in.—I received this screw auger, such as is used by burglars, from Inspector Hayes.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Do I understand you to say that there was a hole through the glass? A. The glass was broken—it was not a hole corresponding with the hole in the shutter—I suppose that the hole in the shutter and through the second lining was bored by this auger, it would not go through further, but they generally take a piece of iron with a hammer and drive it in—the glass might be broken by the auger without its going through it—the second lining was not fixed to the window, it was loose and is put up at night; the shutters put up and take down.

ROBERT FRANKLIN (Policeman, K 480). On 30th August, I met

Sutherland, and saw the hole in the shutters—I stood in a doorway nearly opposite the shop for nearly half an hour—I saw Homewood, and two other men who are not in custody, come up to the corner of Chapman-streel; they stood there nearly half a minute—a constable in uniform on the be passed, and they went up Chapman-street and came back again with Kelly and Timothy, all five together—they stood under the lamp, and Homewood and the two not in custody went to Mr. Carpenter's shutters and commenced doing something—I cannot say what they did, but I heard glass fall-Timothy was then at the corner of Chapman-street, about five yards off them; Kelly about ten yards off, and the other three at the shutters—heard Timothy speak to the parties at the shutter, but could not hear what he said—I then went out of the doorway, and, as they had seen me previously, I staggered across the road as if I was drunk—I caught hold of Homewood by the back of the neck—he turned round directly, faced me and said, "Oh, is it you, you b—? give it to him, Bill," and struck me on the forehead with a life-preserver—I struck him with my rattle—I saw blow coming with a life-preserver, and it caught me on the knuckles—thi is the life-preserver (produced)—I saw it knocked out of his hand; all the prisoners closed round me, and while I was struggling on the ground with Homewood, they were all trying to pull him away, and kicking me—I saw Homewood pass something to one of them but cannot say what—one of them said, "Give it to him, Bill, murder the b—"—I was struck there times with a life-preserver and my finger was broken—I said to Homewood "I know you, Skinner, you had better mind what you are about"—hit proper name is Skinner—he was secured and taken to the station by in and the other constable—I went in search of Kelly about half an hour afterwards and took him at a house in Bluegate-fields, about 400 yards off—I told him that he was wanted for a burglary about half an hour ago at Mr. Carpenter's—he said, "Very well"—I went next day after Timothy, to 22, Slater-street, Bethnal-green—I met him just as he was going in, and told him that I wanted him for a burglary at Mr. Carpenter's, and also for assaulting me—he said, "Very well," and asked if I had got; Spuddy—I know Spuddy, he is one who was engaged in this transaction and who has escaped.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Were you in your police uniform? A. No; I was in plain clothes.

Cross-examined by MR. JONES. Q. How far is the doorway in which you stood from the shop? A. About twenty yards—I was about twenty-one yards from the corner of the street where Timothy was standing—the doorway was a small recess; there are no pillars before it—the weather was fine—there was no one else in the street—as soon as Homewood found out that I was a constable, he struck me over the shoulder a back-handed blow on the forehead with a life-preserver, and then on the back of my head—after that the whole five of them closed round me—the first blow was a severe one, and staggered me—I was engaged in a constant struggle after that which lasted some time—it was right against the shutters—there is a drinking-fountain at the corner of Cannon-street, which is on the Chapman-street side of Mr. Carpenter's shop—I never heard Timothy tell me that I had made a mistake, and that I had got the wrong man; I believe he said I had made a mistake, but I am not certain—I do not believe he said anything about having got the wrong man—Spuddy is a notorious character there—he is very well known to some of the police, and not only in that neighbourhood but several others.

Kelly. Q. What time was it when you first saw me go up the road along with these men? A. About ten minutes past one—you left the fountain and went through to the corner of the back road—you did not stop there till took Homewood; you came back to the fountain—I did not lose sight of you—the whole five of you were together at the corner of Chapmanstreet—I knew where you lived very well, and had seen you before—you never asked what you were taken for.

COURT. Q. Do you know all the prisoners by sight? A. Yes.

WILLIAM WALKER (Policeman, K 488). On the morning of 30th August I was stationed at the back of Mr. Carpenter's premises—I had seen Spuddy and Home wood, about a quarter past 12 o'clock, at the bottom of Cornwallstreet; 500 or 600 yards from Mr. Carpenter's shop, going towards it—when I was behind the premises I heard Franklin say, "Bill, stop him, stop him!"—I went round to where the struggle was, and saw Franklin and Homewood; Home wood had a life-preserver in this way, going to strike him—I drew my staff, struck Homewood across the head, and knocked him down; he got up again and I knocked him down again; he got up again, and truck me across the arm; I struck his arm and the life-preserver fell—I found these two caps on the ground—I have seen Kelly wear a cap like this one.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Where did you strike Homewood? A. On the head; it was not a very violent blow; it knocked him down—he recovered himself—the second blow was about the same—he had a cut there, and there was a small portion of blood—he had a black eye and a swollen face—his head was bleeding.

Kelly. Q. When did you ever see a cap like that on my head? A. Within the last six months repeatedly—you do not wear a brown cap, it, was a black one like this—when I went to you you said that you had been in bed ever since 12 o'clock—I may have brought another man up to your room—I did not want him to swear to you—you went to the police-station and asked if you could see the Magistrate, to report me—I have said that if there was a job done after 2 o'clock in the morning I should believe you were the person who bad done it, if I saw you about—I did not bring up a man and try to persuade him to swear to you for some offence—you told the Magistrate when you went to him that you had come over to see if you could not get protection.

WILLIAM CHANDLER (Policeman, H 117). On Thursday morning, 30th August, I saw Kelly at the corner of Cannon-street, in the New-road, about half-past two o'clock—I had seen him before in the neighbourhood—he went to the drinking fountain, about twelve yards from Mr. Carpenter's shop—I called Franklin's attention to him.

Kelly. Q. Where is this drinking fountain? A. Under the railway arch—the first time I saw you was a quarter past 2—I saw you go across, and said to Franklin, "That is a likely looking fellow"—you were not facing St. George's church—the fountain is on the same side of the way as the church, which is 150 yards lower down.

GEORGE NEWCOMB . On Thursday morning, 30th August, I was in Chapman-street, between 10 o'clock and half-past, and found this auger in a hole under the pavement, under a window-ledge, about fifty yards from Mr. Carpenter's shop—I had not heard of anything being done to Mr. Carpenter's shop—I gave it to my mother, and she took it to the station—I was with her.

THOMAS APPLEBY . I am in Mr. Carpenter's service; he is a pawnbroker at 68, Cannon-street—on Wednesday evening, 29th August, I looked through

the shop and saw everything safe—I put up the shutters; there was no hole in them—I slept on the counter against the shop window—I heard a rumbling during the night of the iron shutter—between the glass and the shutter there is a piece of iron to tit each pane—there were some chains hanging in the window, and I heard them shake together when the tool touched them, and heard the broken glass fall—the hole made was about the size of a halfpenny—I sprang out of bed, went up stairs, and called for assistance—I afterwards opened the shop door—I did not see the scuffle, but I heard somebody say "Hit him, B ill"—the glass was about three feet from me.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. You did not hear the sound of the chains, did you? A. Yes, and the glass fell down on some rings—none of the glass fell in the street, it could not—I was not three minutes up-stairs—when I came down and opened the door I saw Franklin, Walker, and ifomewood—none of the chains were removed.

COURT. Q. Does the iron plate fit close to the window? A. Yes, close to the glass—the glass could not fall anywhere but inside—I did not hear the glass crack but I heard it fall—I cannot say for certain whether the rattling I heard was produced by the chains or by the falling of the glass, 'but I thought it was with the tool touching them.

MR. RIBTON submitted that then was no case for the jury, it not being proved that there was any entry, as the shaking of the chains might have been caused by the broken glass, and further that there was no proof that the hole was not made by other parties before the prisoners came. THE COURT considered that there was a case for the jury.

Kelly's Defence. I was in bed at the time.

MR. JONES for TIMOTHY, called

SUSAN SHORT . I live at 22, Slater-street—my son occupies my first-floor—my husband is insane—on Thursday, 20th August, my son left me about a quarter to 10 to go to bed, in consequence of having to get up to turn over the pigeons' dung which we sell to the tan-yards in Bermondsey, and in consequence of the failures in the tan-yards we cannot dispose of it, and have to turn it over and preserve it—I called both my sons up at 4 o'clock in the morning as my other son had to go to his situation—I am quite positive that Timothy was at home that night.

Cross-examined by MR. LAWRENCE. Q. Is his name Timothy? A. Yes; but I have a second husband—Timothy had been a carman; he is between 28 and 29 years old—he is now in my employ, he helps me to carry on the business in consequence of my husband being away—he sleeps in the firstfloor front-room—he had not a key of the door—there are two or three lodgers, but none of them stop out late—the door is always secured when the last comes in—I did not go to bed till very late—I dare pay it might have been 2 o'clock—I was sitting up in a little room—the staircase is overhead I and if he had come down I must have beard him—Slater-street is by the side the Eastern Counties Railway—I should think it is more than a mile from George's church, but cannot exactly say.

MR. JONES Q. If your son had left your house after you went to bed I must you have heard it? A. Yes—the staircase goes over the room and I there is only a slight wooden partition.

COURT. Q. Were you sitting in the room behind the shop? A. No; underneath, the front room—the little room is made out of the shop—the room is over mine as well as a staircase—I could distinctly hear anybody walk into his room—I cannot tell what time any lodgers came in that night

probably they might have retired to rest—I can distinctly hear the lodgers come from the top of the house—I had only one lodger then, and he had gone to bed before—I have two now—I do not know at what time the next witness came in, but she saw my son in bed—I did not say that every lodger I had come in first—I said I did not know at what time she retired to rest—I think she had come in before my son went to bed—she had a separate room; a top room—there are three floors besides the ground-floor—I have a good deal to do in my business and after that is closed, I have to do a little needlework as I have a large family—we generally shut up the house about 11—I there is a private entrance which the lodgers go through; that is always shut I but do not know who shut it—my other son sleeps in a room adjoining this one—he went to bed about 11—he is younger.

JURY. Q. This one retired about a quarter to 10, and the other about 11? A. Yes—I cannot say what time the lodger went to bed—I do not consider my sons lodgers.

COURT. Q. Did you know of your son being taken into custody? A. Not till next morning, Friday, about 6 o'clock—I did not then go before the Magistrate—I was up at the second examination, and was not called—I offered myself to Mr. Beard, a solicitor who defended my son, and ha did not call me.

MART ANN HARTMAN . I live at 22, Slater-street—on the morning of 30th August there slept in the house, me and my husband, and my children, Mr. Timothy and his wife—Mr. Timothy lives on the first floor—I went to bed about a quarter past 11, he was then in bed—I know that, because he got up and asked his wife to go to bed; she had been very ill all day—he did not leave the house, because I shut the door and went to bed at a quarter to 12, and heard no more—the house was all quiet—I do not know how long Mrs. Short and the Timothys have lived there—I have been there a year and nine months, and I found them there—Mrs. Short is my landlady.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you a husband living in the house with you? A. Yes; he is not here—he is a weaver and is finishing his work—Timothy has a wife and a little girl—I did not notice what time Mrs. Short went to bed—I had not seen her for two or three days—I do not often see her except when I go down to pay my rent—she sleeps in the back parlour—I cannot nay who generally locks up the house, but I think the eldest boy, Thomas Short, aged about eighteen does, or else Mr. Timothy, who is older than him—the shop is next door—we have no latch key—we work at home and are never out late-my husband is never out at night, and when he comes home in the day time the door is open—I have let him in when he has been out—the fastening is a latch that pulls back; in the day time it has got a string by which you could pull it back, but at night it is generally taken off of the knob—my bed room is on the third floor, and Timothy's is on the first, but I am very quick of hearing, and am a very light sleeper; I can hear any slight noise.

MR. JONES. Q. Is that Mrs. Short's son by her first husband? A. Yes, her present husband is out of his mind—a person could not get in at night without being assisted by somebody inside if the string was taken off—it is taken off at night; the last one does it—I do not know who is generally last, but I believe I was, on that night, because I shut it when I came in.

COURT. Q. But you did not take the string off? A. No—Timothy has not lodged there all the time I have—I have only seen him at home for the last ten or twelve months.

Kelly called

SARAH ANN RYAN . I occupy the first floor of Kelly's mother's house, and he lodged with her—I remember his being taken in custody, but do not remember the day of the week—on the night in question he came in at half-past 11 or a quarter to 12, and remained in my place till about half past 2 in the morning, because I had a child lying dead; he then went up to bed—about 3 o'clock the police came to my room door, which was open, and asked me who was up stairs—I said, "Only the persons who live there," and that they were all in bed—I showed him a light—Kelly was in bed, and he asked him to get np and go with him.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you sober when the police came? A. Yes, I had not tasted one glass of liquor or beer—the policeman knows I was sober—there was nobody there but one young man, and me and my two children—there are only two rooms in the house, which is No. 2, New-court, Newgate-fields—Kelly and his mother occupy the first floor up stairs, and I occupy the down stairs—I have lived there six or seven mouths—Kelly has not lived there so long as I have—I cannot say to a week how long he had lived there—I never made any acquaintance with him; I only noticed him come in and out.

COURT. Q. You say that a young man was with you? A. Yes—I had one child lying dead on the table, and another child living—the young man was only a neighbour—I cannot say at what time he came in, perhaps 1 o'clock, perhaps 2—he was there a great part of the time that Kelly was there, but was not there when Kelly came in; he went away to sea last Thursday—some other neighbours who had been there had gone—some of them left only a little time before the policeman came—I only occupy one room of the landlord—the neighbours who were there were Mrs. M'Carthy and Mrs. Harrington, neither of them are here—Kelly was stopping because the child was dead, and there was what we call a wake.

GUILTY of the attempt— Confined Two Years each.

There was a further charge of a former conviction against Homewood and Kelly, which was not proceeded with, in consequence of their being convicted of misdemeanour only.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-834
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

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834. EDWIN BALL, Unlawfully publishing a libel on Joseph Rosenthal, upon which no evidence was offered. NOT GUILTY .

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-835
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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835. JOHN JAMES WEBB (32) , Embezzling the sum of 2l. 2s., the money of Joseph Trumper. his master, to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .—Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor.— Confined Four Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-836
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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836. JOSEPH BRACKHOUSE (17) , Unlawfully attempting to commit b—st—y. GUILTY .

His master gave him a good character, and promised to try to get him employment.— Confined Six Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-837
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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837. JAMES OWEN (40) , Stealing a watch, value 35s., of John William Jones, from his person, having been before convicted, to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Four Years' Penal Servitude.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-838
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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838. WILLIAM WILMOT (25) , Feloniously forging and uttering a receipt for the payment of 28l. 7s.; also, a receipt for the payment of 23l. 8s.,with intent to defraud; also, stealing one order for the payment of 28l. 17s. 10d., of Octavius Jonathan Ray, his master; to all of which he

PLEADED GUILTY . Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor.—Three Years' Penal Servitude

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-839
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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839. JOHN JACKSON (57) , Stealing 280 yards of mohair, value 6l. 12s. of John Carby Thompson and another.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES BAKER (City-policeman, 635). On the 20th September I was in Camomile-street, Bishopsgate—I saw the prisoner with a large package of goods on his back—I followed him into St. Mary Axe, through Houndsditch, to the corner of Bishopsgate-street, when I went up to him and asked him where he brought the parcel from—he said "The city"—I said "Where?"—he said "The city" a second time—I said "Where are you going to take I them to?"—he said "To Worship-street"—I said "Consider yourself in custody"—he flung the parcel over my shoulder, and said "Carry it yourself in—I took it and him to the station—he was there asked where he got it—he said that he picked it up close by London Bridge—he refused to give his address, and I have never been able to find it.

CHARLES TURNER . I am under warehouseman to Thompson and Patten. of Bread-street, Cheapeide—on 20th September, about half-past four, I was coming down stairs in the warehouse, and saw a man at the door, who I believe to be the prisoner—he said something, but I was in a hurry, and he went away.

Prisoner. Q. Did you ask me my business? A. I asked you no question.

GEORGE WORDMAN . I am warehouseman to Thompson and Patten—I have examined this property—it consists of six pieces of goods, from 40 to 60 yards in each, 280 yards altogether; value from 6l. to 7l.—I had seen it safe on Friday, the 20th, about half-past 10 in the morning, on the counter in the warehouse, under the window—a person would have to pass through the warehouse door to get at it.

Prisoner's Defence. I have been employed as a porter in the city upwards of twenty years. I was near London Bridge, and a gentlemanly man came and asked me if I would carry this parcel to Houndsditch, I mid "Yes;" he walked behind me till I missed him near Houndsditch; I waited a little time, and then, not finding him, I thought I would take it to the police-station, but was taken in custody. I never was in custody before.

GUILTY .*— Confined Twelve Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-840
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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840. JOHN JAMES PARSONS (37) , Stealing 10 yards of cloth, value 2l., 10s. the property of James Lancaster.

MR. PLATT conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES ALFRED SULLIVAN . I am shopman to James Lancaster, a woollen draper, of Aldgate High-street—on 5th October, about 7 o'clock this cloth. (produced) was brought by a constable, and I identified it as belonging to Mr. Lancaster—I cannot say that I saw it safe after 10 that morning—it was then the top piece of a pile—there are ten or twelve yards, at 4s. a yard.

ALBERT WHITE (City policeman, 128). On 5th October, about 7 o'clock, I met the prisoner in Aldgate with this roll of cloth, about 100 yards from Mr. Lancaster's shop—when he saw me he tried to conceal it under his coat—I asked him what he had got there—he said that it was no business of mine, and tried to pass on—I got another constable, and, after some resistance, the prisoner was taken to the station—he said that he had got the cloth from his master.

Prisoner. You let the other man go away, who was alongside of me.

Witness. There was no one with you.

Prisoner's Defence. I had to carry it; the other man was about three yards ahead of me; the policeman laid hold of it, and asked where I was going with it; I told him to come and see, for I did not know.

GUILTY .**— Confined Two Years.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-841
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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841. ARTHUR PARSONS (30) , Stealing 3 1/2 yards of silk, value 1l. 4s. 9d. of James Isaac Sands, his master; Second Count, stealing within six months 11s. 6d. in money, of his said master.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES ISAAC SANDS. This silk (produced) is mine—I cannot tell when I lost it—I had it, certainly, on 1st April—it has been cut off another piece, which is still in my possession—I have compared this with it, and am quite certain that this is part of it, and it is just the quantity that has been cut off—the prisoner was my shopman till he was given in custody—the pawn ticket was found upon him—I did not miss the silk then.

THEODORE HOULSTON FOULGER (City-policeman). On the afternoon of 28th September I went with Smith and another officer to Mr. Sands' premises, 17, Holborn Hill—the prisoner was there—I told him that we were officers, and asked him what money he had in his possession—he gave me two sixpences and 2 1/4 d.—I said "You have got some more"—he said "No"—I was about to put my hand into his pocket, but he put his hand into his right hand trousers' pocket and took out this half sovereign, which I had given to the witness Cruise the day previous—he was taken to the station and searched by Smith—in the evening, about 7 o'clock, he sent from the cell to say that he wanted a message sent—I went to him, and he asked me to send a message to a young woman he was paying his addresses to—I told him that we had found some duplicates at his lodging; that he need not answer me unless he chose, but one of them related to a piece of silk pawned at Bloomsbury—he said, "Unfortunately that is not mine"—I said, "Whose is it?"—he said, "Mr. Sands', and that is the only thing I am guilty of."

Prisoner. Q. Did you take the half sovereign from me, or the other officer? A. I did; you gave it to me, saying, "Oh! I forgot there was 11s. 6d. for a waistcoat"—you put your hand in your pocket a second time—you did not turn the money in your hand over, and take the half sovereign from between the two sixpences.

ALBERT CRUISE . I am a broker's clerk, and live at 24, Great Turnerstreet, Commercial road east—on 27th October, about half-past 12, I received from Foulger three half sovereigns and four half crowns—I then went to Mr. Sands' shop, 17, Holborn-hill—the prisoner was in the shop, and I bought of him a coat, which he charged me 26s. for, and a waistcoat for half a guinea—I gave him the three half sovereigns and three of the half crowns which I had received from Foulger—the prisoner went out and got change for half a crown and gave me a shilling.

COURT. Q. Did he take any of the half-sovereigns out? A. He took the whole of the money out with him; he brought back change for half a crows in his hand, and gave me a shilling.

JAMES ISAAC SANDS . I am a tailor, of 17, Holborn-hill—the prisoner has been in my employ since 19th March—I have no other shopman—I made a communication to the police, and was present when some half-sovereigns and half crowns were marked by Foulger, on 28th October—I then left the shop

and went up stairs for two or three hours—I came down again about 3 o'clock, found the prisoner in the shop, and asked him if he had taken any money—he said, "Yes, a little"—I tried the till and found that it was looked—I asked him for the money, and he gave me two half-sovereigns and two half-crowns, all marked—I asked him if that was all he had taken; he said that it was, and was about to give me a ticket of the garment he had sold, but' kept it, as he had not marked the price of it—I have kept the money separate—I went for an officer and gave the prisoner in custody.

Prisoner. Q. Did not I give you the money out of my pocket? A Not that I am aware of—you certainly did not give me 7l. 10s.—I have asked you to lend me money and give me change—I do not believe you were in the habit of putting money belonging to me, into your pocket—there is a till into which you were bound to put it.

COURT. Q. You say that you have asked him to lend you money? A. If I have wanted sixpence or a shilling to give change, I have said, "Have you got sixpence or a shilling?" and he has lent it to me—I do not owe him money, he owed me money.

Prisoner. I have often given change out of my pocket, and have paid myself with money I have taken.

WILLIAM SMITH (City-policeman). I searched the prisoner at the station—he had something in his hand; I laid hold of this string and after a straggle got it from him; it was this ticket for the waistcoat, with the price and the trade-mark on it—I found on him three keys, with one of which I opened a box at his lodging, 8, Bedford-street, Mile-end, and found some duplicates, one of which related to this piece of silk, pawned on 11th August, at Mr. Willis's of Bloomsbury, and which I got from the pawnbroker.

Prisoner. Q. Did you take the half-sovereign from my hand? A. I did not, nor did I say so at the police-court.

COURT. Q. How did you know this to be the prisoner's lodging? A. He had given a false address, but I ascertained his lodging, and found letters there addressed to him.

Prisoner. Q. Who told you I resided there? A. I believe it was his young woman that told me—I did not hear it from you at the station.

ROBERT JAMES DOWNING . I am assistant to Mr. Wells, a pawnbroker of Bloomsbury—I find a piece of silk pawned on 11th August, in the name of Jameson—I do not recollect the person, but this is the duplicate I gave; it corresponds with the other.

Prisoner's Defence. This being the only time I ever was in trouble, I hope a short punishment, in addition to that which I have already received, will meet the justice of the case. GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-842
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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842. JOHN WALTON (27) , stealing one watch, value 3l. the property of William Ashley, from his person, to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Four Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-843
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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843. BEDFORD LEMERE (21) , Stealing 49 yards of silk, value 12l., the property of David Lonsdale, his master, in his dwelling-house; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .—He received a good character.— Confined Twelve Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-844
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentencesImprisonment > penal servitude

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844. GEORGE THOMAS REEVES (31) , Feloniously forging and uttering a warrant for the payment of 2l. 12s. with intent to defraud, also embezzling the sums of 1l. 17s. 3d. 1l., and 1l., the monies of William Horatio Johnson, his master, having been before convicted; to all of which he

PLEADED GUILTY. , MR. SLEIGHfor the prosecution, stated that the prosecutor,

knowing that the prisoner had been convicted, took him into his service to endeavour to reclaim him but that the prisoner had been robbing him ever since.— Four Years' Penal Servitude.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-845
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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845. CHARLES GAULT (23) , Stealing 5 watches, value 25l., the property of Benjamin Walker, in the dwelling-house of Sarah Titterton; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Six Years' Penal Servitude.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-846
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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846. GEORGE KING (17) , Robbery on Ann Hill, and stealing from her person 2 watches, 2 rings, and other articles, value 9l., her property; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-847
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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847. CHARLES ADOLPHUS CLAYTON (28) , Feloniously marrying >Mary Ann Amelia Albin, his wife Hepzibah being alive; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months

NEW COURT.—Monday, October 22d, 1860.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-848
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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848. JAMES STICKLAND (38), and THOMAS REVELL (40) , Unlawfully conspiring by false pretences to cheat and defraud the Great Western Railway Company.

MESSRS. GIFFARD and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY LUKE . I am a carman in the employment of the Great Western Railway Company, and was so on 28th June—on that day I went from the Bull and Mouth to Mr. Stickland's place of business, at 25 1/2, Gee-street, Goswell-street—it is a picture-frame maker's shop—I took with me a memorandum similar to this (produced)—I received five cases of goods there—they were put into my cart, and I took them to the Bull and Mouth, which is one of the receiving offices of the Great Western Railway Company—the cases were directed to Chepstow, I believe—"Hardware was written on each case, at the top—I forget what name was on them—I believe it was John Davis—this (produced) is the memorandum that I had with me when I fetched the cases—it was given me at Mr. Sticklaud's shop when I received the five cases—I delivered them at the Bull and Mouth with that memorandum—it applies to these goods.

Cross-examined by MR. TINDAL ATKINSON (for Stickland). Q. Did you take that from your place of business to Mr. Stickland's, or did you get it at Mr. Stickland's? A. I got it from Mr. Stickland—I took one there which my foreman gave me—I had been to Mr. Stickland's shop many times before, and taken away cases from there—sometimes the boards of the cases may warp a little—there might have been one or two cases made with a little interval between the boards, so as to show the packing—there were not any such that saw—I have been there on a former occasion and saw them packing them—they were packing pictures, glasses, and frames—I was waiting to take them away—that package was marked "Hardware"—it is a picture-frame shop—they make nothing else there as far as I could see.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Have you anything to do with what the cases contain? A. No, I merely deliver them at the Bull and Mouth.

MR. ATKINSON. Q. You don't know what the weight of those parcels was? A. No, I did not see them weighed.

WILLIAM BUTT . I am receiver at the Great Western Railway Company's

office at the Bull and Mouth—on 28th June last, I received five cases from the last witness, with this memorandum—they were directed "John Davis, George Hotel, Chepstow"—"hardware" was written on each case, at the top of the direction—there was no crevice or opening in the cases by which I could see into them to tell what was in them—in consequence of something I heard I opened three of them—the other two were not opened—the three that were opened contained engravings framed and glared—there was no hardware in any of the cases that I opened.

Cross-examined by MR. ATKINSON. Q. Then you actually knew what was inside those? A. No—I had instructions to detain anything I thought described wrongly—I had instructions from the superintendent to open the case—I communicated to him that they contained frames—they were sent on—I did not send for Mr. Stickland to come and explain the matter—I have been at the Bull and Mouth going on for nine years.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE (for Revell) Q. Is there anything done at your office except receiving goods and forwarding them are they looked there? A. Yes—the carriage is not paid there in all cases; in some cases it is—we have a scale to go upon, but that is not part of my department—I am not the person who receives the things when they are booked; a clerk I does that—I merely check them and pass them to the clerk—we have several clerks there—one is here, Mr. Edwards—these very goods may have been taken to the platform clerk—if a person wanted to prepay them he would go to Mr. Edwards to do so, and to ascertain what would have to be paid—I know nothing of that part of the business; I never receive any of the pay myself.

COURT. Q. Do you know anything about a different charge being made for prints and pictures than for hardware? A. No—the word "hardware" I was written on the card, with a line underneath it

WILLIAM FREDERICK EDWARDS . I am a booking-clerk at the Bull and Month, one of the receiving-offices of the Great Western Railway—I saw three of those cases, directed to Mr. Davis, Chepstow, opened at the Bull and Mouth—they contained engravings framed and glazed—I did not see any hardware; I looked to see if there was any—after I had satisfied myself as to what they were, the cases were fastened down, to be sent on to the address at Chepstow—I did not see this memorandum at the time—we have a table of charges supplied to us—I have not one with me—if the carriage had been prepaid should have made the charge—I never saw either of the defendants upon the subject of this charge—the goods not being prepaid we should not make out the invoice at the Bull and Mouth—we should not levy any charge at all—we should forward them to Paddington, and the charge would be made by some of the clerks there.

Cross-examined by MR. ATKINSON. Q. How many miles is it from London to Chepstow? A. I do not know—I was present when the cases were opened—I don't know that it is left to me to define what hardware is—I have been at the Bull and Mouth two years and more—I was called in at the opening of the packages to see what they contained, and to draw the distinction between what they contained and hardware—I should not think pictures and engravings were hardware—a picture-frame is not so defined in our classification—it might be made of metal—hardware is made of metal.

Q. Supposing picture-frames made of metal, cast in a mould, sent with an oriental garden chair of iron; would you call it hardware? A. What I might call it of my own knowledge, and what I might in my sense of my duty, might be two different things.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Your sense of duty would lead you to get as much for the Company as you could? A. I should charge according to my instructions.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Were these metal picture-frames? A. They were not.

GEORGE RALPH . I am foreman at the Bull and Mouth, in the employment of the Great Western Railway—I saw the cases opened; they contained engravings framed and glazed—there was no hardware in them—they were afterwards fastened up and sent to Paddington.

Cross-examined by MR. ATKINSON. Q. You were not before the Magistrate? A. No—this is my first appearance.

CHARLES ROGERS . I was carman to MESSRS. Young husband, on 29th June—on that day I took, amongst other things, five cases from the Bull and Mouth to the Paddington Railway Station—they were directed to Davis at Chepstow; described as hardware.

Cross-examined by MR. ATKINSON. Q. You were not before the Magistrate? A. No.

JOHN GROVES . I am in the employment of the Great Western Railway, and am stationed at Paddington—on 29th June, I received these five cases of goods directed to Davis, Chepstow—they were described as hardware—I checked them when I received them—I checked them as to the number of cases on my bill, and then they were given to Mr. Stanton to make out the invoice—this (produced) is the bill—I weighed the cases they weighed 13cwt. 2qrs. 16 lbs.

Cross-examined by MR. ATKINSON. Q. You were not before the Magistrate? A. No. (The bill teas here read.)

WILLIAM STANTON . I am engine clerk at Paddington Station—I invoiced five cases which came, upon 29th Jane, directed to Mr. John Davis, Chepstow—I made out the invoice—I did not see the cases myself—I charged them at hardware rate; that is 1l. 9s. 2d. per ton—the figures come out at 1l.0s. 10d—if they had been described as steel engravings the charge would have been 3l. 9s. 2d. per ton—that would come out at 2l. 7s. 3d—we have a classification from which I make out the charge—this (produced) is the table upon which I act and charge, and have done so for some time—Chepstow is on the South Wales Railway; that extends towards London as far as Gloucester—we book the whole charge through.

Cross-examined by MR. ATKINSON. Q. Is there any printed table in your place, containing the charge for hardware? A. No—the distinction of charges is kept in a table, in a book; that is for my guidance—the company give each of the servants in my position a book of this kind—I think the distance to Chepstow is about 180 miles—I cannot say how many it is—we have rates for that station—there are no rates in that book; that is the classification—I have not the rate-book here—I was not told that I should want it—I am the clerk to whom the public have to go to pay the rates to Chepstow, and other places—I should not receive the money, but I should make the charge.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. There are two classes here; which did you charge them? A. I charged those cases as hardware as they were directed—I did not know at the time that they had been unpacked and found to contain pictures—if I had, I should have charged them under the fifth class; as pictures framed and glazed—from this book I get the classification; for the rates I turn to some other book—we don't charge by distance—I look at the Chepstow charge—I did not bring this book; I

brought no book at all—it is a copy of the book, that is in the office—I can't say whether this very one was in use at Paddington at all—they are the tables in use at Paddington—the book from which I get the tonnage is in my desk at Paddington—I do not receive goods at all; there are other clerks who do—there are two clerks on duty, who receive goods and apportion the tonnage; Mr. Boxer and Mr. Sleep—they are at Paddington, I believe; I have not seen either of them here—they would receive goods brought by the public; I should invoice them from the declaration, and then charge them—I don't see the goods at all—I simply copy them from the declaration and then charge for them through—this (produced) is the declaration—it is not checked off—the checker would declare the goods if they were not declared by the receiving officer—this one is not checked, and not declared—it is marked "hardware," but that is only a private memorandum—the declaration comes to me all ready for invoicing—I copy this and then insert the charge—I get the charge from the rate-book that I have—that is left behind to-day—I keep the rate-book in my desk—there is no public table of the rates hung up—the superintendent supplies that table to me—I do not know at all how he makes it up—my attention is not, in these matters, called to the Act of Parliament under which the charges are made; I am merely directed to charge particular charges, and I do it—the superintendent is goods manager—he is here; his name is Stevens—he supplies the table to me.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Have you been charging in this way for many years? A. Three or four years—I do not generally know who the consignments come from—this book (produced) is not exactly like mine—this has the columns for the different rates, exactly the same as mine; so much charged from one station to another under five different classes.—my book has a few more rates in it—the Chepstow rate is quite right here—the rate is 1l. 9s. 2d.; that would bring out 1l. 0s. 10d.

MR. METCALFE. Q. You don't get the mileage from there? A. No—I cannot tell you who can explain that book—I do not know whether it is founded on an Act of Parliament—I don't know whether the superintendent can tell you what the Company is entitled to charge—I have a book placed before me, and it is my duty to see that the rates in that book are properly charged.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. According to the proper charge by this book, you charged at the rate of 1l. 9s. 2d.; if it had been declared as engravings would you have charged at the rate of 3l. 9s. 2d.? A. I should.

ARTHUR RICE . I am one of the assistants at the railway-station at Chepstow—in June last, I received the five cases of goods from Paddington, directed to Mr. John Davis, George Hotel, Chepstow, and described as hardware—they were handed over to the witness Coles to deliver at the George Hotel

GEORGE COLES . I am a railway carman at Chepstow—in June I delivered the five cases of goods directed to Mr. John Davis, George Hotel, Chepstow—they were marked hardware—I received in payment for the carriage 1l. 0s. 10d.

Cross-examined by MR. ATKINSON. Q. Did you receive the cases? A. Yes—there was a joint in one of the cases, and the paper was broken—I could see inside that it was a gilt frame—there was only one crack.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Could you see whether that had been the result of accident? A. No, it was merely a joint had opened.

JOHN DAVIS . I am an auctioneer at Chepstow—I remember receiving

five cases at the George Hotel, Chepstow, and paying 1l. 0s. 10d. for the carriage—we intended to offer them at public auction but there was no company—I afterwards sold about 9l. worth of the goods by private contract—I had taken seventeen guineas worth myself—they were all engravings framed and glazed—I did not sell any hardware out of those cases—I did not see any in them; I should have seen it most likely if it had been there—I communicated with Revell about the sale—I gave the account to a young man, whom I had known some time as Mr. Revolt's traveller.

JAMES NEWMAN . I am messenger to Messrs. Maples—I served notice on Revell, a copy of which I have in my hand—I served Stickland with a copy of the same notice.

JOHN DAVIS (continued). In the written account that I gave, it was "sold for Revell," and what I so sold was part of the live cases which I received at the George.

Cross-examined by MR. ATKINSON. Q. Do you know Mr. Stickland at all in this transaction? A. No, I do not.

MR. METCALFE to WILLIAM STANTON. Q. When you charge the highest class, do the Company at all hold themselves responsible for damage done? A. No—there would be 20 per cent, additional charged, if the Company held themselves responsible—light goods are always charged at a heavier rate than others—I should think the charge is in proportion to the weight—I have not taken any steps to ascertain whether it is or not.

ROBERT HOARE . I am a carman in the employment of the Great Western Railway Company—on 3d July I went from the Bull and Mouth to Mr. Stickland's shop—I there received eight cases—they were directed to Messrs Maynard of Taunton, and each case was described on the top of the direction as hardware—I took them to the Bull and Mouth, the receiving office, and delivered them there.

CHARLES ROGERS . I received eight cases at the Bull and Mouth, directed to Messrs. Maynard of Taunton, described as hardware—I took them to the Railway-station at Paddington, and delivered them there on 3d July.

JAMES BRADLEY . I am inspector of porters at the Paddington Railwaystation—on 3d July I saw the eight cases directed to Messrs. Maynard of Taunton, and described as hardware—I opened them—they were large pact ing cases nailed, down—I could not tell the contents till I opened them—when I opened them I found them to contain prints, framed and glazed; no hardware—the frames were wood; some gilded, various kinds, but wood—I did not see any metal frames—I would not say there were not any—I afterwards fastened the cases down—they were forwarded to Taunton—my memory will not serve me as to what they weighed—it is on the declaration—(looking at it)—the eight cases weighed one ton four hundred-weight.

EDGAR ALFRED THOMPSON . I am invoice clerk at Paddington station—in July I made out the invoice for these eight cases—I have nothing to do with the charge. (The bill was here read).

BROOM ROGERS . I am porter at Taunton Station—I received the eight cases directed to Messrs. Maynard, marked "hardware," and checked them with the invoice.

FREDERICK HADEN . I am delivery clerk at the Bristol and Exeter Railway, Taunton—the Great Western does not extend beyond Bristol, I believe, towards us—I delivered these cases from the platform on to the waggon—4l.1s. was demanded—3l. 5s. was charged for them—I had ascertained that they were pictures, and demanded 4l. 1s.—that was not paid—5s. additional

was charged to Mayfinrd for delivery to him from the station—3l. 5s. I was actually received—the 5s. was additional to the 3l.

Cross-examined by MR. ATKINSON. Q. You made the charge as picture? A. I did not make the charge myself—I believe it was made for pictures,—I went to Mr. Maynard—I asked him for the money for pictures, after the I delivery of the goods—the charge for hardware to Taunton is 2l. 5s. per ton; I believe; and 2l. 18s. 4d. for pictures—we make a distinction between pictures and picture-frames—we charge less for pictures than for frames—I should not charge more for pictures than for picture-frames—we have a classification book similar to this—I am quite sure that we charge more for picture-frames than pictures—I do not know what the difference is charged for—I can't say whether it is for risk—we should not charge more for fresh I fish—that does not come by goods train; it comes by passenger train—I do not know what the higher price is charged for.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Do you or not know that a claim for damage has been made by Mr. Revell to the Company, and repudiated on the ground of their not being responsible? A. I do not—I have not seen a quantity of pictures since this lot of goods, consigned to the same person—Ido not know that when pictures have been sent as pictures by Mr. Revell through the Company and have been damaged, that the Company have refused to pay any damage at all—I don't know whether the superintendent could tell that.

COURT. Q. Are picture-frames charged lees or more than pictures framed and glazed? A. Pictures framed and glazed would be more.

HENRY MAYNARD . I am managing clerk to Messrs. Maynard of Taunton, auctioneers—on 5th July I received eight cases from the railway, described as hardware—I did not receive any bill with them—they contained engravings framed and glazed—they were part sold for Mr. Revell—62l. 15s. 6d. was the amount of the sale; we did not sell them all—the money of those that we sold was remitted to Mr. Revell by Mr. Maynard, after the expenses were deducted—those that were not sold I delivered over to Mr. Locksley, who is, I believe, a traveller to Mr. Revell—our firm received a letter from Mr. Revell (This was dated 14th July, 1860, giving at a reason for tending the goods as hardware, that the Railway Company repudiated any liability for damage done to the goods)—4l.1s. was demanded—our firm communicated with Mr. Revell, and that was the answer.

Cross-examined by MR. ATKINSON. Q. You don't know Mr. Stickland in this matter? A. Not at all

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Do you know that Mr. Revell has had considerable difficulty in getting his claim acknowledged by the Company when he has paid the higher rates, that the Company have refused to be responsible? A. I am not aware of it—after the money was paid I heard no more of it until the middle of September—nothing was done that I am aware of between 14th July and the middle of September—I am not aware that a claim was made by Mr. Revell on the Company for damages between that time—(A letter dated 26th July, was put in and read from Messrs. Maples to Stickland, stating that they were instructed to take proceedings against him for penalties for the misdescription of the parcels).

JAMES JOHN MESSER . I am acquainted with Stickland—I believe this (produced) to be in his writing.

Cross-examined by MR. ATKINSON. Q. Is he a vestryman of the parish of St. Luke's? A. Yes; he carries on business as a picture-frame maker—he is a person of very great respectability, and of unimpeached honour and veracity

(letters read)—"London, July 28th, 1860, 25 1/2, Gee-street, Goswell-street—Gentlemen,—In reply to your letter respecting goods sent by me to Chepstow and Taunton, I beg to say that both parcels were sent for a customer of mine, and by his orders were directed "hardware," with the intention, as he said, of taking oil responsibility of damage upon himself, as he has never been able to get compensation from the Railway Company for damage done to goods at other times. I have sent your letter to him, and you will hear from him at once.—I am your obedient servant, JAMBS STICKLAND. July 30,1860, to &c., &c."—"July 30th, 1860, to Messrs. Maples—Gentlemen,—I am in receipt of a letter you addressed to Mr. Stickland, respecting some goods sent to Chepstow, and furniture, and I beg to inform you that the goods were sent at the lower rate by my instructions, the reason of doing so "the trite impossibility of getting compensation for breakage," the Companies denying their liability. Having had some very lengthy and tedious correspondence with Companies and carriers, respecting damage done to goods without any satisfactory result, I at length determined to send goods at the lower rate, and take the responsibility of damage upon myself, which I believed I had the right to do—I am, gentlemen, yours obediently, THOMAS REVELL."

THOMAS ROSS (examined by MR. METCALFE). I know Mr. Revell very well—I am a printer—I have known him a number of years—his character stands very high indeed—I have done business with him.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. What is the business? A. Printing impressions of plates belonging to him—I have known him carrying on that business for, I think, seven or eight years.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Do you know of his making a claim upon the Company? A. I have heard him state that he has done so—I have heard him speak of a claim having been made as late as 6th August, and that the Company, on that occasion, denied their liability—I have heard him say so several times—it is my firm conviction that that was the only reason of his sending them as hardware.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Do you think it was characteristic of an upright and honourable man to write "hardware" when it was not hardware? A. I think he was under a mistake; that he did not know he would render himself liable—he told me that he had some goods damaged by the railway, and, finding he could not obtain any recompense for it, he took the advice of some legal gentleman, who told him that the Act of Parliament entitled him to send goods under any denomination he liked, provided he took the risk on his own shoulders, and that is the reason, I believe, why Mr. Revell did so—I believe that he acted under a mistake of law—I should know very well that they were not hardware—I believe Mr. Revell knew they would be charged lower as hardware.

J. J. MESSER (re-examined). I believe these also (produced) to be in Stick-land's handwriting. (These were four notices to the Railway to receive goods tent by Stickland described as "hardware" in two of them.)

The prisoners received good characters. NOT GUILTY .

OLD COURT.—Tuesday, October 23d, 1860.


Before Mr. Recorder.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-849
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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849. WILLIAM DAVIS (17), was indicted for stealing a watch, value 3l., the property of James Tinder, from his person, having been before convicted; to which he


22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-850
VerdictsGuilty > unknown

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850. WILLIAM HOLLY (29) , Stealing H lbs. of brass, 26 lbs. of tin, 6lbs. of lead, 96 lbs. of metal, and 1 mould, the property of Benjamin Fox and another, his masters; and SAMUEL FLORANCE (39) , Feloniously receiving the same. Second Count, charging Holly with stealing 6lbs. of copper of his said masters.

MESSRS. SLEIGH and BESLEY conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN SPITTLE . I am a sergeant of the detective force—in consequence of instructions watched Messrs. Besley's premises in August and September last—I know the prisoner Holly—I knew him as being in the employment of Messrs. Besley—I observed him on more than one occasion leave the premises of Messrs. Besley, and I followed him—on most occasions he went to No. 8, Union-stret t, Hoxton New Town, which is a marine-store dealer's shop, kept by the prisoner Florance—Holly generally left his employment about aquarter past 7 at night—he was dressed as he is now, in a rough blue coat, and cord trousers—on the evening of 25th September I was in Goswell-street with another officer, named Legg—about 20 minutes past 7 I saw Holly coming from the direction of Fann-street—he went to Florence's shop, which is, I should think, three-quarters of a mile from Messrs. Besley's—I followed him into the shop and there stopped him, and asked what he had got about him—he said he had nothing, at the same time I felt hit person, and found he had some hard substance round his body—Florence was behind the counter—I brought Holly to the shop-door, put my hand into his trousers pocket, and took out these two pieces of copper (producing them)—I handed him over to Legg—he said that that was the first thing he had overtaken—I told him I had watched him to that shop many times before—he made no reply—on the occasions when I have seen him enter Florence's shop I have watched him there various lengths of time—sometimes as long as an hour and a half—I am not aware where he was during that time; he always passed through the shop into the parlour—a partition divides the parlour from the shop, and there is a doorway through which he passed, and I lost sight of him; I could not see whether Florence accompanied him or not, or whether he was in the parlour—I subsequently took him to Moor-lane police-station—before that I searched the parlour into which I had always watched Holly go, and in that parlour I found nine pieces of metal with a quantity of other metal—it was on the floor, part under a chair, and the remainder under a bedstead, the chair being at the side of the bedstead—there was a bed in the parlour—there was a quantity of metal mixed, and oat of that I selected what I deemed expedient to take away—I produce it, and also some brass which I found in a shed—on my first going there Florence was behind the counter—I am not aware where he was when I found the property; he was not in the house, I inquired for him, but did not see him again that night—I remained there an hour and a half—after stopping Holly I went away for about two or three minutes, to get the assistance of another officer, and when I came back I did not see Florence—I made a further search in the back part of the premises, and in a shed at the back of the yard I found this parcel of brass, from which some pieces have been selected by some of the witnesses wrapped in two pieces of paper—I took possession of these nine ingots of metal, with the brass, and with other odd pieces of metal, and I left the premises with Holly—I did not see Florence any more that night—on the following Thursday morning, the 27th, about half-past 10, I went there again—I found Florence behind the counter—Legg was with me—I spoke to

Florance, and said we were police-officers; that I had taken a quantity of metal from his premises on the Tuesday night, a portion of which had been identified by Mr. Besley as haying been stolen from his premises; and it would be necessary for him to accompany us to the police-station, where the metal was, to explain how he became possessed of it, as, if he did not give a satisfactory account of its possession, he would be charged with receiving it, knowing it to have been stolen—we accompanied him into the same parlour in which he had found the ingots of metal on the Tuesday night, and there, on the chair and about it on the floor, was some metal and some ingots of metal, which he said he had cast that morning, expecting that we should come again—he asked his wife and son where the mould was, and after appearing to look for it they brought this broken mould, and handed it to me—he said he I had cast the metal in this mould that morning—one of the pieces of metal was warm—I asked him whether he kept any books, and he produced this one—when I told him it was necessary for him to see the metal in order for him to see how he became possessed of it, he said his transactions were very numerous, and he did not know that he could do so—I took possession of the four pieces of metal which he said he had cast (producing them)—we then went to Moor-lane station, where I had taken the property on the Tuesday night—I directed Florence's attention to the nine ingots of metal, and asked if he could tell how he obtained them—he said he could not—I then said, "I must direct your attention particularly to these, as I they are identified by Mr. Besley as having been stolen from his premises; can I you account for the possession of them?"—he said, "No; unless they formed I part of this lot," referring to this entry in the book on 27th July—"50 lbs. black, Mrs. Nelson, Edward-street, Barnsbury-road, 15s."—I asked whether he could account for the possession of the brass, as that had also been identified as having been stolen from Messrs. Besley—he said, "No; but they might I have formed part of 34 3/4 lbs. of brass," directing my attention to the entry under the date of 23d June, "Mr. Trout, Hoxton Old Town, 34 3/4 lbs. brass, "18s. 3d."—I do not find the name of Holly in the book—I have examined it—he was then charged with receiving this property—I have carefully examined the book, and cannot find any entries corresponding with this property.

Cross-examined by MR. DICKIE (for Holly). Q. How long had you been watching Holly? A. Six weeks; there were four of us engaged in watching him—I frequently saw him during that period, not daily, I think I saw him fifteen or sixteen times—I never searched him until this occasion; I used my discretion about it, I thought it advisable not—the first thing I said to him was "What have you got about you?"—he said he had nothing—I handed him over to Legg—he repeated that he had nothing about him, and said "Let me come out," and he rather objected to the way in which we handled him.

Cross-examined by MR. LANGFORD (for Florance.). Q. Did you ascertain where Holly lived? A. Yes; at Haggerstone—I do not know that he ever lived in the same street as Florance—I never watched him into any house in the same street—I searched Holly's house—this is the whole of the copper I took from Holly—none of these ingots were hot when I took them—there was a good deal of other metal in the shed—I believe Florance buys from other marine-store dealers—I have seen a horse and cart there—I had no difficulty in finding these ingots—Mr. Trout and Mrs. Nelson were at the police court—when I went again I found some metal, which he said he had cast—I took possession of the mould—the mould was not hot—the metal fits the broken mould.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. What else was there under the bed besides the ingots? A. There were old pieces of lead of various kinds and a quantity of metal—the bed appeared to have been slept on—there was plenty of room for the metal in the front shop.

GEORGE LEGG (City-policeman, 440). I accompanied Spittle on 25th September to Florence's house in Union-street—I saw Holly go in—he was taken into custody—I heard him say "I have not got anything"—Spittle put his hands into his pocket and took oat two pieces of copper—Spittle handed him over to me and went away to get assistance—Florence was at that time behind the counter—when I entered the shop I did not see whether Florance and Holly were in conversation, I was some distance behind Spittle—while I was searching Holly in the shop I lost sight of Florance—I found five pieces of copper round Holly's body under his waistcoat, next to his shirt; between his trousers and shirt, fastened with this belt—when I took out the last piece he said that was all he had got—I went again to Florence's on the Thursday morning with Spittle—Florance was in his shop—we told him we were officers, and we should take him into custody for him to account for the possession of some property that we had taken away from his premises, and he must go to the station—he said be expected us, and showed Spittle some of these pieces of metal, which he said he had just moulded to show us they were the same as the others—he sent out his wife and children and they brought in this mould and these two ingots—he said this mould was his own and that he ran his metal in it—we did not pursue the search that morning, we took him to the station—after Spittle and I had been examined at the police-court Holly said, "I will plead guilty."

Cross-examined by MR. DICKIE. Q. Holly was defended by Mr. Lewis, was he not? A. He was—I do not knew that it was under Mr. Lewis's advice that he pleaded guilty—I had been watching Holly for some few nights—I had not seen him many times—I knew where he lived—he gave his correct address.

Cross-Examined by MR. LANGFORD. Q. Did you ascertain whether Holly ever lived in Union-street? A. I did not; I have heard that he did—when I went to Florence's shop there was a man there sorting some pieces of rags; I presume they buy everything there—I saw some bones there and all the sorts of things that you see in a marine store shop—I think it was on the second examination that Holly said he would plead guilty; when the depositions were read over to him—I have not made inquiries about the character of Florance—I have heard that his wife has been in custody for receiving stolen property—I have heard that he is a licensed dealer in marine stores, and a licensed carman.

ROBERT BESLEY . I carry on business as a type-founder and brass-rule manufacturer, in Fann-street, Aldersgate—I have examined the ingots produced—I have no doubt whatever that some of these bars of metal were cast in one of my ingots; I recognize them as my property—Holly was a workman in my employment—this broken piece of mould was brought to me by one of my work-people; it was in my possession—this other piece was found in Florence's possession—it is mine—an attempt has been made to cut it with a coal chisel—this piece was found after the prisoners were in custody.

Cross-examined by MR. DICKIE. Q. You did not miss any moulds until you were told you had lost some? A. I did not—I will not swear there are not similar moulds in other type-founderies in London—they are what we call

blank ingots; the ordinary practice is to have the name of the firm in the bottom of the ingot so that the mould should not be marketable—some of these ingots were purchased of my predecessor nearly forty years ago, and they had always been kept secretly locked away and ought never to have been used—I can't say how long it is since I last saw them; if I had seen them I should have ordered them to be put away immediately—I have seen them and minutely examined them, both lately and when I purchased them; by lately I mean since the robbery—we have from 160 to 200 persons in our employ—our premises are not rather open; we have only one entrance—we have a notice over the door that no strangers are admitted—persons that come on business come to the counting-house, which is a separate entrance—I cannot say that other people besides workmen never go into the workshop, but they have no right to pass in that way—of course I don't see everybody that passes in and out, but I should not allow any but workpeople to go in by the workmen's entrance—I have looked over all the metals produced and swear they are mine—I cannot say when I last saw these moulds; it may have been years ago, this case has resuscitated them—this brass is the cuttings out of which brass-rule is manufactured—it is not perfect; it is not waste—I should not sell it to a printer, but my brassfounder would give me 10d. a pound for it—I do not believe that quantities of these cuttings are swept out of printing-offices and type-founderies every day; no man in his senses would be so careless of his property; it could not be to the advantage of the type-founder, for no printer would be long able to pay the type-founder if he permitted such a thing to be done—some may be swept out but not in such quantities as this—I do not pretend to swear to the whole of this; my partner has examined it more particularly—I know that we have the same description of metal constantly about, and a quantity of this metal was given out to Holly the very morning he was taken—I dare say other houses in London use the same kind of metal for similar purposes—the bars of metal fit my ingots.

Cross-examined by MR. LANGFORD. Q. You do not pretend to identify this brass? A. Not the whole of it—I believe it to be mine, because I had a quantity of that description of property about my premises, and I happen to know that the business of Holly was to pick out such pieces as this from the sweepings and hand them back to the brass-rule shop—I speak to the ingots because they have peculiar indentations, and those peculiar indentations fit exactly an ingot in my possession—the ingots were purchased of my predecessor a long time ago—I did not say we purchased the mould; I dare say the mould has been destroyed nearly a century—I believe these ingot to be a century old; they were put away, not locked up, they ought not to have been used—the ingots we use now have our name on them—this ingot produced is ours; that is one that was cast a century ago—what we call the mould in the wooden mould out of which the cast-iron is produced—I dare say there were other iron moulds made at the time, but I have never seen more than four, five, or six—it is not the metal that was cast a century ago but the ingot; no such ingots are cast now (looking at an ingot produced by Mr. Langford)—none of the metal fits this ingot (trying them)—metal shrinks a little in casting—I am prepared to say that these could not hare been cast in this ingot—we never get rid of our old broken moulds; we have an occasional clearing out—we should certainly not sell this broken piece; what we sell at our clearance is broken melting-pots and pieces of cast-iron that are useless—this is half an ingot; it would never be sold as useless, there is a use to which it may be and has been applied by the boys in our

establishment—I believe we have only one other of these ingots in our place—we had six of these blank ingots and we have lost two, we have four left, this makes the fifth—these ingots are made of pure lead—I know nothing of Florence's shop—I have not sold any of my metals to printers—we do not sell ingots at all, we use them on our own premises—(looking at a piece of metal produced by Mr. Langford) I cannot say whether this it the same sort of metal—metal can only be spoken to after a difficult and analytical process—I do not identify the metal from its component parts, but because they fit the ingots—none of them fit the broken mould that was found at Florence's; they fit the double mould exactly.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Are you able to say whether those two ingots of metal to which your attention has been called were cast in that exterior case of ingot? A. I am—I have tried these pieces with the ingot found on the premises of Florance and they do not fit—these ingots are never sold by us they are manufactured into this form for the convenience of giving oat to the men.

JAMES HARLEY . I am in the prosecutor's employment—since this case was before the Magistrates I have searched the workshop in which it was Holly's duty to work, and there found this broken half-ingot—it was under a small bench that we use for an old pair of scales to weigh different odds and ends in.

Cross-examined by MR. DICKIE. Q. It was not covered up but lying carelessly about? A. It was lying under half a cwt of salt coke which we use in our work.

BENJAMIN FOX . I am a partner of Mr. Besley's—I have examined the property produced; these ingots are ours—we have brass-ruling of precisely the same description as this on our premises, and to the best of my belief it formed a portion of it; I have brought some with me which exactly corresponds with it—these portions bear upon them private marks from having been made by our tools—in my judgment this broken ingot mould and the other piece produced formed one—it is the property of Mr. Besley and myself—we never sell ingots of metal in this state, they are made In this way for our own use.

Cross-examined by MR. DICKIE. Q. How long before this occurrence had you seen these moulds? A. Perhaps a few weeks, they were then in the melting-house—I did not have them in my hand—I saw them as I passed through the melting-house—I would not positively swear they were these moulds—as it is now, it is only old iron, a sort of thing that we should throw into a waste corner—Holly has been in our employ seven or eight years—he has a family.

Cross-examined by MR. LANGFORD. Q. Do you make these pieces of brass? A. Yes; we sell them in large quantities to printers—these pieces that I hold in my hand were made for a special job—I suppose we never made any like them before—the customer used them and returned them because they were not according to pattern—there is a private mark on this piece, it is seven or eight noughts; that was mode for an experiment—perhaps that was the only piece made—when the printers have done with their brass-rule they sell them to marine store dealers—we have not sold any of these to Mr. Driffield, of Brewer-street, Somers-town; we never had any dealings with him—none of these ingots could have been cast in this mould (the one produced by counsel), making every allowance for the contraction of the metal—there is nothing peculiar in the metal itself—I could not tell that the metal was ours.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Have you put these ingots into the double mould? A. I have; I have not the least doubt they were cast in that.

ALFRED STOCKMAN . I reside at 22, Windsor-terrace, City-road, and am a brass-rule cutter in the prosecutors' employ—this piece of brass ruling is of the description made use of by Messrs. Besley in their business, and with which I have particularly to deal—to the best of my belief it forms a portion of their property—I can swear to this piece in particular, it bean punch marks that I made myself with this punch—some of the other pieces also bear the impress of my work—it was Holly's duty to sift the sweepings of the shop, and return to me the brass found among it

Cross-examined by MR. DICKIE. Q. Did you never make other holes of the same sort with this punch? A. No; I made this punch myself, and tried it on this piece of brass—it was made as a pattern; it was not used for printing purposes, it might possibly have fallen on the floor—if pieces of brass do fall on the floor they are not swept out of the shop—they are swept up and collected in the shop—it might be a year or two ago that I made these punch marks—I cannot swear to these other pieces.

Cross-examined by MR. LANGFORD. Q. I suppose this is an ordinary punch? A. No; it is not a good one such as a punch-cutter would turn out—I made it myself, and it makes a peculiar mark.

ANN NELSON . I am a marine store dealer at 2, Edward-street, Barnsbury-road—I never sold to Florance bars of metal in this shape.

Cross-examined by MR. LANGFORD. Q. Do you know that he is a dealer in metal? A. I do; I have dealt with him two or three years and always found him honest in his dealings—I know that metals are melted down and cast into moulds similar to these—I have sold Florance pewter and small pieces of various kinds, such as tea-lead, and coach-binding, and such like, and other things as well; he comes round every two or three months—I think I had dealings with him about the time mentioned in his book, 27th July—black metal is an inferior sort, the other is a bettermost sort of pewter—I have never seen Florance melting metal—I never sold him any brass—I have had bits come in occasionally—it is used by printers.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Look at those large pieces of metal; did you offer sell Florance any like those? A. When it was melted down it would be something similar to that—I never sold him any in that form.

GEORGE TROUT . I am a marine store dealer in High-street, Hoxton Oldtown—I cannot say that I have not sold Florance brass of this description—I may have done so, a small quantity; I never sold him such a quantity as this—it has been a mixture of metals that I have bold him—I keep a book for purchases but not for sales—I sold him a quantity of brass on 23d June—I do not know Holly.

Cross-examined by MR. DICKIE. Q. Is it a common thing to buy brass such as that? A. Quite common; it is generally brought in small quantites—I should not buy it of printers' boys—I always have a book to show who I buy of—it is a yery common metal.

Cross-examined by MR. LANGFORD. Q. Have you known Florance long? A. About three years—he is a general metal collector—he has his regular rounds every Saturday to collect metal of shops like mine, and I believe he afterwards melts them down.

COURT Q. Do you think that in the quantity you sold on 23d June that produced may have formed a part? A. There might be a few bits, not the whole—I do not identify any, it is not a thing I could identify; it is what printers use and chuck away.

JAMES EVANS . I am in the prosecutors' employment, and have been so for eleven years; I was in the same department as Holly—I have been on intimate terms with him, and have occasionally gone out with him—about July last, I went with him and Florance to Hampton races—we went in a van—Florance got up the party—I had not been to Florance's house before that—I accompanied Holly there and we all went off together and spent the day there—I have seen Holly casting metal in this double ingot mould—I have seen him do that two or three times since July last; that was when only he and I were there, just before 8 o'clock—he used to tell me it was for the men to soften their metal—I did not know he was taking them away—he cooled them in water—I once saw him put them in his breast, on that occasion he and I left the premises together, he having the ingot in his breast—he did not tell me what he was going to do with it, I knew—I cannot tell when that was; I think it was after the Hampton races—I went with him as far as Mitchell-street, and then parted with him—that is about a quarter or half a mile from Union-street—I have seen him take away to ingots on other occasions—I saw him take four, that was after the one I have spoken of; he took them away altogether—I left the premises with him, it was in the evening—he was aware that I knew he had them—he told me he was going to bell them—I went with him to close by St. Luke's Church, that is about a quarter of a mile from Union-street; we then parted—he had told me that he was going to take them to Florence's—he gave me some money next day—I think he gave me 5s. in one week, but not for one thing—I have seen Holly with pieces of copper like this produced putting them on one side, and in the evening he used to place them inside his clothes and wear them—we have then left, and he has told me that he was going to take them to the same place—that has occurred three or four times—he has not told me next day what he has done with the property—he has given me money about half-a-crown at a time—I have seen him pick his masters' brass out of the dirt, put it in paper, lock it up and take it away, telling me that he was going to sell it, and I have accompanied him—he has told me that he has sold it at Florance's—I one night waited at his house in Union-street while he vent to sell some of the brass—he lives three or four doors from Florance's, on the same side—he was absent about a quarter of an hour and then gave me, I think it was, 3s.—he did not tell me where he had been, or show me more money than he gave me—on the day before Holly was taken, Mr. Fox gave him some tin, which he broke in half and melted it down and made it into four ingots—I went with him that evening and parted with him at the usual place—he gave me about 2s. next day; that was two or three days before he was taken in custody.

Cross-examined by MR. DICKIE. Q. Were you sworn when you entered the box? A. Yes—I do not know whether I understand the nature of an oath, but I understand that I have come hero to speak the truth and the truth only, and that if I do not, I shall be punished, and I have done so as far as know—I know that Holly was examined three times before the Magistrate; I did not go there and give evidence because they did not ask me—I told my employers three or four days after Holly was given in custody what I have told you to-day—I did not tell thorn the amount of money I had had from Holly; I told them I had received some—I do not know how much I have received from him altogether—I do not know why I was not taken before the Magistrate—I did not go and tell my employers about Holly, they came and asked me questions—they know how long it takes to beat up copper—I thought that what Holly was doing was wrong; I did not say that it was

not right: but I took the money when he gave it to me—it was not every other night that we went with these things to sell; it was about twice a week, but some weeks none—it has till been within six weeks.

Cross-examined by MR. LANGFORD. Q. When was it that you first saw Holly put those ingots in cold water and then put them into his breast? A. About three or four weeks ago—I do not know that he has been taken in custody longer than that—I do not know how long he has been taken in custody—I do not know the days of the week, or what is the next month to January—Holly gave me the money for me not to say anything, I should think—he told me what he was going to do with them, because he could not put them into his breast without my seeing him—I never saw him take anything to Florance's—Mr. Besley asked me about them first—he asked me to tell the truth; that was about a week after Holly was taken—he said something about knowing that I knew something about it—he did not tell me that I should go, or threaten me at all—I do not know how much money I received altogether—I knew that I was thieving.

MR. LANGFORD called the following witnesses.

DANIEL SMITH . I am a brass founder and manufacturer of brass fittings and taps of every description—I used to collect metal once, and I still buy it when it comes to my shop—I know Florance—I bartered with him for some copper about 6th or 7th August, and he had some brass and white metal from me, bits of old gas fittings and lamps, and the refuse from printers'—this produced is precisely like it, but I would not swear to it-there were about a dozen pounds of this description; I had it from Mr. Whatmore; there were some remarkable pieces among it; bits of new (picking out some)—I think I could swear to these being mine—no man could swear to the printers' things, but these three pieces I certainly believe were mine by their being doubled up—I have known Florance six years, he is a very honourable man in his dealings; he has been a collector of metal from all parts of London from people such as me, who cast it—sometimes I have a lot of metal that will suit him, and sometimes he has a lot which will suit me—I understand the fusion of metals—I should be very sorry to swear that these two ingots (pointed out by Mr. Besley) were made in this mould—any indentations in the lead to compare with the mould would be no criterion to go by, as there are places in the moulds which are not in the ingots—I do not see any indentations corresponding with the mould—I find places in the mould which are not in the ingot (pointing them out)—metals expand and contract, and if you run hot metal into this mould the iron will expand, then as soon as it gets cold it will contract, and therefore the metal will not go in again—I have seen a great many ingots of hard and soft metal in my time, and a great many moulds, and I think that these ingots may have been cast in any other mould—here is another mould just the same—I cast an ingot only this morning—it fitting in the way it does is the very reason that it was not cast in it—this ingot does not fit this broken mould, but that is no criterion, as the metal expands and contracts, but if it was made hot it would fit; we tried it this morning—if you take any piece of metal make a hole through it and make it very hot, put another piece through it and let it get cold, it will nip it as tight as you please; and if this metal is put in very hot and immediately turned out, it will not go in again ten minutes afterwards—this is the tin solder used by tinmen, and the other is lead solder used by plumbers.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Do you say that the metal will not fit into the mould in which it was cast? A. No, I swear that it will not—I swear that there are not the slightest concavities in the ingots answering to

the inner surface of the mould to enable anybody to swear to it—I swear that they do not fit—I bought all this brass from Mr. Whatmore on 6th or 7th August, but not all the metal I sold to Florence—I do not keep books of what I buy like that—I am not a marine store dealer, I am a manufacturer—I do not keep an account of my sales unless I give credit; my business is principally ready money—I have no entry of this—I believe I gave Florance an invoice—there was no paper or invoice between me and Whatmore, not for a few pounds of metal—I gave the prisoner one, because there was a great quantity, it came to 6l. or 8l.—I have been in that line of business fourteen or fifteen years, but have only been a brass founder three years—I was brought up to the glove trade—I have been turnkey of a prison in the county of Middlesex—I never was in a criminal Court before to my knowledge—I was indicted once many years ago at Clerkenwell, by Mr. Croll, the Sheriff—it was not on a charge of receiving stolen property, the charge was robbing the bank books, which they could have found out in one hour—I was honourably acquitted, and brought an action against Mr. Croll, and recovered damages against the firm of Croll and Glover, for malicious prosecution and Blander, and I deal with Mr. Croll up to the present time—that is six years ago—it is eight years since I was a turnkey at Coldbath Fields.

COURT. Q. Do you give it as your opinion that that metal was not cast in that double mould? A. Yes, I do—this other one could not have been cast in this broken mould, nor these others, they will not fit—this other could possibly have been cast in this mould, but it expands and contracts, and when the mould was made hot it would not fit

Q. You say that one of these could have been cast in that mould? A. When I said that it could not be I meant that it could; I mean to say that they will not fit again—I have seen moulds at Florence's five years ago.

MR. LANGFORD. Q. Just look at this mould; have you ever seen it at Florence's? A. Yes, four or five years ago; I firmly believe that—Mrs. Florance brought it to my place this morning and we tried the ingot in it

JOHN WHATMORE . I am a marine store dealer of 33, St Pancras-place and Queen-square—I have known Florance two years—I never knew anything but what was very respectable of him—I have sold brass to Mr. Smith for several years past, and have twice or thrice sold him such pieces as these produced—I sold him some before 6th August, and bought them of Mr. Duffield, a printer—I think the first I bought of him was a small quantity, 1lb. or 1 1/2 lb., and that was sold to Smith with more—I am pretty well acquainted with metals—there are a great number of these ingots about—they are in common use by tinmen and plumbers.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you deal in ingots of this description? A. Not unless they are brought to ray shop by a plumber, and I should buy them if I knew who the party was, but not if I knew they were got dishonestly—if a working man could not give me good authority that his employers sent him I should not buy them—I bought 10 or 11 lbs. of Florance at various times.

MR. LANGFORD. Q. Would the name of Fox and Besley being on it, make any difference in your purchase? A. Certainly; I should enquire into the circumstances under which it was sent.

JOHN DUFFIELD . I am a printer, of St. Pancras—some time before 6th August I sold Mr. Whatmore some pieces of brass; it was eight to pica—I use it in my trade—I had it of Mr. Besley, or rather of the firm of Thorowgood; the name is Besley, but I do not know anything about Fox—the old name is Thorowgood; they are type-founders—I have had

other business with them; founts, and any odd things I wanted for in trade.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you looked at the pieces of brass there to know what you are talking about; am I to understand you that you sold any portion of those to the last witness? A. I cannot say it is the same metal, but I sold some similar, and all cut up in bits like this, which is of no further use in our trade—I sold him none similar to this before 6th August—I have dealt with the firm of Thorowgood about thirty years—I have bought of them recently, but have not sold Whatmore any of that—this (produced) is what I bought yesterday.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did you buy that for the express purpose of bringing it here? A. No.

JOHN CHURCH JUDD . I am a metal dealer and gas fitter of 15, Crownstreet, Soho—I have seen Florance two or three times—I do a large business in the metal trade—there is nothing unusual in the appearance of this hard ingot—it is not plumber's solder, it is a sort of fictitious metal which is sometimes brought to be sold for plumber's solder, it is lead and antimony—I can tell you better with my nail than by looking at it—here is another sort—these are the sorts of metal likely to be turned out of a general dealer's shop—I do not find the name of Besley and Fox on them—this is the usual style in which such things are sold to the trade—I have got in my stock, four tons of lead, and perhaps a ton of brass and a ton of copper—it is not an unusual thing for a smelter to go round to the small marine store shops—I never heard that it was necessary to take out a license for that—there is nothing unusual in these pieces of brass—we have a great quantity which we buy; they call it printers' lines, and when the edge is very sharp a printer tells me that it is of no value, or if it becomes notched—I have plenty of it by me.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you mean to say that these have ever been used at all, are they not the mere cuttings of the manufacturers, new pieces of cuttings? A. I should not think they were new, they do not appear like it to me—some appear to have been used by a printer, but they have laid by in a damp place and become black.

COURT. Q. Are they notched? A. Well, they look to me like what the printers term cuttings, useless cuttings. (Holly received a good character.)

GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months each.

NEW COURT.—Tuesday, October 23d, 1860.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-851
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

851. THOMAS SALTER (28), and EMMA MUCKLEY (21) , Feloniously having in their possession a mould for making counterfeit coin, to which they PLEADED GUILTY .

SALTER.— Confined Five Years.

MUCKLEY.— Confined Eighteen Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-852
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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852. ELLEN REEVES (17) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin, to which she PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Four Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-853
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude

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853. JOHN CRONIN (38), and MARGARET CRONIN (38), Feloniously making a counterfeit shilling, to which

MARGARET CRONIN PLEADED GUILTY .— Eight Year's Penal Servitude ,

MESSRS. ELLIS and COOKE conducted the Prosecution,

JAMES BRANNAN . On Friday, 21st September, I went, with other officer, to Clerkenwell-green, about 7 o'clock in the evening—I saw John Cronin, he was coming in a direction from his own house, and about fifty yards from it an officer seized him, and he and I pushed him into the Crown public-house—he had his right hand in his pocket—I said, "Mr. Cronin, I need not tell you who I am, my name is Brannan; I have received instructions from the Mint to pay attention to you, for dealing largely in counterfeit coin"—he said, "I don't know what you mean"—I said, "What have you got in your hand?" he said, "Nothing"—we pulled his hand from his pocket, and in doing so, a paper parcel fell from his hand on the floor—I picked it up; I it contained a florin, a half-crown, and five chilling, all counterfeit, and wrapped in separate papers—I said to him, "Where do you live now, Jack?" he said, "You know, Mr. Brannan, where you have been before"—I said, "Bit-alley" he said, "Yes"—I left him in charge of the officers and went to the house in Bit-alley—the street door was open and I proceeded to the first landing—the prisoners' room is on the left-hand side, at the top of the landing (I had been in that room before)—the room door was fast—I broke it open with a sledge-hammer, and found Margaret Cronin in the room, standing behind the door endeavouring to keep it shut—on entering I heard something rattle in an earthen pan of water that stood behind the door—I called Inspector Bryan's attention to it, and he looked and said, "Oh, Mr. Brannan, here is a lot of shillings"—I pushed Margaret Cronin away and her pockets were turned out—she became very violent—she was secured and I proceeded to the window, and found a galvanic battery in full play, containing seventeen shillings undergoing the process of electroplating; two shillings and thirteen sixpences which had not undergone any process, and a tile with white metal in the teeth of it, which had apparently been recently used—the galvanic battery was charged, and the contents of it I have here—Margaret Cronin was taken, but I was obliged to send to the station for more assistance or I do not know what might have been the consequence—I then returned to the public-house where I had left John Cronin—I told him I had been to his lodgings and found the woman and a large quantity of coin—he said, "Yes, Sir, it is a bad job."

BENJAMIN BRYAN (Police-inspector, G). I went with Brannan and saw John Cronin—he was put into the public-house—Brannan asked him what he had got, he said, "Nothing"—they struggled and Brannan pulled his hand out of his pocket and a parcel fell on the floor—I took another parcel from his hand containing nine shillings—Brannan told him he had been instructed by the Mint authorities to look after him, and he asked him where he lived—he said, "Oh, where you have been before"—Brannan said, "Bit alley?" and he said, "Yes"—I went with' Brannan to the room; I heard something rattle and some money fall—I found Margaret Cronin behind the door, and in a pan of water there were some shillings—I found on the floor near her, nine sixpences which had not undergone the process—on the fire-place I found two iron plates for holding the moulds, and in a basket under the bed I found a piece of glass to make the moulds on—on the mantel-piece I found this rent-book—in John Cronin's right-hand pocket I found this knife, which has plaster of Paris in the hole for the thumb nail—

I found in the room these two hammers, which, there is no doubt, have been used for breaking up the moulds after they have been used.

ARTHUR ELLIOTT (Policeman, 104 G.) I had instructions to look after John Cronin, and followed him—I saw him on the Friday evening and on the next day I saw the two prisoners in the waiting-room—I said to John Cronin, "I am surprised at your remaining in that house after we visited you there some months ago"—he said, "I have been there three years; I was not aware that you had been there."

JAMES BRANNAN (Police-sergeant, 21 G.) I took John Cronin—I found on him three sovereigns, three half-sovereigns, two crowns, one half-crown, one florin, nine shillings, and two sixpences, all good—I went to the room in Bit-alley—I found some plaster of Paris under some coals in a cupboard in the room.

FESTUS TOMKINS . I reside in the house in Bit-alley, in the next room to that in which the prisoners live—I shall have been there four years next Christmas—I know that they lived there to the day they were taken—they had lived there all the time I was there, but they had moved away for about twelve months and returned—on the Friday evening when the police came, I was at the bottom of the court and they passed me—I had seen John Cronin that evening, it might be about 6 o'clock, he was coming home with a donkey—I heard him in his room about three-quarters of an hour before the police came.

John Cronin. Q. Do you know that I work hard for my living? A. I have known you from a boy—I always thought you worked hard for your living; I have called you up many times.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin to the Royal Mint—these coins are all counterfeit—in the parcel Brannan took up are three shillings of 1855, all from one mould, and in the parcel Inspector Bryan took are two shillings of 1855 from the same mould as the other three—in the house were found twenty-seven shillings, and seven of them are of the date 1855, the same mould as the three and the two—in the first parcel are two of the date of 1859 from the same mould, and in the parcel produced by Mr. Bryan is one of 1859 from the same mould as the other; and in the house were found three of 1859 from the same mould as the others—in the battery are Rome of 1859, some 1850, and some 1855, from the same mould as some of the coins found on the man—these irons are for holding the moulds, this file is for getting the get from the coins, and in the file are pieces of white metal, the same as the coins are made of—these are some particles of moulds—these hammers appear to have been used for breaking up moulds.

JOHN CRONIN— GUILTY .— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-854
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > with recommendation
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

854. WILLIAM PRITCHARD (24), and JOHN THOMAS (22) , Unlawfully having counterfeit coin in their possession.

MR. ELLIS and COOKE conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES BRANNAN . On 20th September I went with Inspector Bryan and some other officers to Old-street, St. Luke's, between 4 and 5 o'clock in the morning; I saw the prisoners in a pony cart—the pony was stopped—I said, "Well, Mr. Pritchard, I have received instructions from the authorities of the Mint to pay attention to you as being dealing largely in counterfeit coin"—he said, "I know nothing about it"—I said, "Come out of the cart"—he did not do so; Inspector Bryan pulled him out, and Harvey and Elliott seized Thomas—I had seen him pull his right hand out of his pocket

and drop a parcel at the bottom of the cart—I put my hand in Pritchard's right trousers pocket and found this bag with a counterfeit half-crown and a shilling in it, wrapped separately in paper—I showed him the coin and said, "What do you call this?"—he said, "I called at Mr. Hunt's coffee-house this morning and had my breakfast; I had change and got it there"—I said, "Very well, I shall inquire"—he then said, "O no, I did not; I did not know it was bad"—I went to the cart and picked up the parcel which Thomas had dropped—it contained six counterfeit shillings wrapped in paper—I said to Thomas, "You were not so successful as you were that evening when we apprehended Jack Derby; you got away in the crowd"—he said, "You've found nothing on me, you can do nothing with me."

Thomas. When you stopped the horse I jumped out of the cart; the policeman seized me and I said, "Search me; I have got nothing on me."

Witness. No; you were seized before you got out of the cart, by Harvey and Elliot—Pritchard was out of the cart before you left it.

BENJAMIN BRYAN . I was with Brannan—I took hold of Pritchard, and saw Brannan take this bag out of his right-hand trousers pocket—the coins in it were wrapped in paper.

JOHN HARVEY (Police-sergeant, 9 G.) I was in company with the other officers at the time they stopped the cart—I saw Thomas drop a small paper in the bottom of the cart, and saw Pritchard attempt to push the parcel down a hole in the cart after Thomas dropped it—Brannan said, "There it is," and it was taken.

Pritchard, I might have moved my foot, but as to trying to make away with the parcel, I did not

Thomas. I had no parcel in my possession.

JAMES BRANNAN (Police-sergeant, 21 G). I searched Pritchard, and in his left-hand trousers pocket I found a florin, a sixpence, and a shilling, all good—while I was examining it, Pritchard said, "O you will find that good."

ARTHUR ELLIOTT (Policeman, 104 G.) I was with the other officers; I seized Thomas while he was in the cart—he did not get out till he was seized by me and another officer—I saw him throw a packet on the floor of the cart—I searched him but found no money whatever.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These six shillings found in the packet are counterfeit; three are of the date of 1855, and two of 1856, from the same mould—this half-crown and shilling found in the bag are counterfeit, and the shilling is of the same mould as two of the other shillings.

Pritchard's Defence. I am guilty of having them, not knowing that they were bad.

Thomas's Defence. I was employed by this man; he came to call me in the morning; I know nothing of him; when they seized the horse I jumped out of the cart, because part of the harness was undone; I know nothing about it. (Thomas received a good character,)

PRITCHARD— GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.

THOMAS— GUILTY .—Recommended to mercy by the Jury. Confined Six Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-855
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

855. MARY ANN NEWLAND (19) , Feloniously uttering counterfeit coin; to which she

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-856
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

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856. JOHN SMITH (21), ELLEN STEVENS (25), and LOUISA GREEN (19), Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin, and having other counterfeit coin in their possession.

MR. ELLIS conducted the Prosecution.

ROBERT COLEMAN HALL . I am a grocer—on 7th September I was walking up Princes-street—I saw the three prisoners together—I passed by them, and heard Smith say, "Go and try the old buffer over there," and Stevens and Green went opposite to a public-house—Smith waited outside, just opposite—I went to the house, and heard Stevens call for something—she gave a shilling to the barman—I saw it put in the till—I called for a glass of ale, and gave a shilling to the landlord—Stevens and Green went out as soon as they got their change—I then made a communication to the landlord—he looked in the till, and found a bad shilling—while I was there no other shilling was put in the till—the landlord kept my shilling in his hand—I went after the females, with the barman, and found them with Smith walking down the street—I took hold of Smith and said to him, "These women are passing bad money, and you are with them"—he said he was not with them—the barman took the women, and a policeman came up.

Stevens. He brought this man and put him in our company. Witness No, I did not.

SILAS ROBERT HARRIS . I am barman at the Falcon Tavern—on 7th September Stevens and Green came in together a little after 9 o'clock—Stevens called for shrub and cold water—it came to 2 1/2 d.—I served her—she offered me a shilling, and I put it in the till—I do not think there was any other shilling in the till, there was a half-crown—as soon as they had drank their shrub and water they went away—Mr. Hall spoke to me—I went after the prisoners—I took the two women—I told Stevens that she had given me a bad shilling—she said it could not have been—I afterwards got a bad shilling from my master, which I gave to the policeman.

Stevens. You said you did not know whether it was the shilling your master took from Hall that he gave you, or whether he took it from the till.

Witness. No, I did not—there was a half-crown in the till.

MR. ELLIS. Q. How soon after the women left the house were they given in custody? A. About 3 minutes—I went out with Mr. Hall—they were going towards Leicester-square.

STEPHEN VARRICI . I am landlord of the Falcon Tavern—I recollect Mr. Hall coming in on 7th September—he asked for ale, and gave me a shilling—I had it in my hand, I did not put it in the till—I saw Stevens and Green leave, and Mr. Hall said something to me—I went to the till, and the shilling that was in the till was bad—there was only one half-crown besides that—I had cleared the till just before—I saw Harris put the shilling in the till—there had been no shilling put in the till or taken out after Harris had put that one in—I gave the shilling to Harris, who went after the prisoners.

EDWARD OLIVER (Policeman, 294 A). I took Smith in custody—I saw him take something from his waistcoat pocket and put it in his coat pocket, and in that coat pocket I found a hole, and whatever was put in it slipped down to the lining, and in the lining I found four counterfeit florins and one shilling, which I produce, and this is the shilling I got from the barman—in Smith's right-hand waistcoat pocket I found 2s. 8d., and at the station the female searcher gave me half-a-crown and a shilling—she said in presence of the prisoners that she took it from Stevens—they were good—she found no money on Green.

CATHARINE WILKINS . I am the wife of Joseph Wilkins—my mother keeps the Grapes public-house—about 16th or 17th August, Stevens came—

she asked for a glass of porter—I drew it in a pewter pot—she gave me a bad shilling—I saw it was bad directly she put it on the counter—I told her it was bad—she said it was not—I said it was, and gave her in custody with the shilling.

GEORGE CAVALIER (City-policeman, 412). I took Stevenson 16th August—she gave the name of Agnes Robertson—I received this shilling which I have here from the last witness—Stevens was taken before the Lord Mayor, and remanded, and discharged.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This shilling produced by the barman is bad—this shilling found on Smith is bad, and from the same mould as the one produced barman—these florins are all counterfeit—this shilling, uttered in August, is bad.

Smith. The bad money I found.

Stevens. I was in the public-house and called for the shrub and water, but I did not know the shilling was bad.

SMITH— GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

STEVENS and GREEN— GUILTY .— Confined Nine Month each.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-857
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

857. SAMUEL MANHOOD (21), MARY ANN SMITH (30), ANN GIBBONS (21), and JOHN HIGLEY (19) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin. MR. COOKE conducted the Prosecution,

ANN CLARK . I am single, and am lodging with Mrs. Segurt—on Saturday morning, 22d September, I went up stairs—the four prisoners were there—I took up four cups and saucers and put them on a tray with their breakfast—it came to 2s. 2d.—Manhood paid me with a half-crown—I took it to Mrs. Segurt—before I gave it to her bit it—she gave me four pennypieces change, which I gave to Smith and she gave it to Manhood—I afterwards took them up some more bread and butter and received a good sixpence for it from one of the women—on the Wednesday week following I saw all the four prisoners at Mr. Segurt's, and the half-crown was shown to me—I found the tooth mark was on it.

Smith. I was not there. Witness. I am sure you were.

MARY ANN SEGURT . My husband keeps a coffee-shop in William-street, Shoreditch—on Friday night 21st September, the prisoners came about 12 o'clock—they had each a cup of coffee in the shop—Higley paid for it with a good shilling—I gave change—he then asked me if I could let them have two beds; I said, "Yes"—he asked the price; I said, 1s. 6d. each—he said he could not afford that, he could give a shilling each—I said, "Very well, as there are four of you you shall have it"—he gave me a good half-crown—I gave him sixpence out and they went up stairs to two separate rooms—their breakfast was ordered in the morning but I could not say who ordered it as Miss Clark waited upon them—Clark afterwards paid me a half-crown; I gave her fourpence change and told her to put the half-crown on the drawers, as I was not up—when I got up I put it in my pocket and I went out to buy a yard of ribbon; I offered the half-crown and it was refused—when I came back I showed it to Clark—I then wrapped it up and put it by itself—I afterwards gave it to the policeman—on 2d October Smith and Gibbons came again—Smith asked if they could "have the same beds that they had before, for a shilling each—I said, "Yes, but have you any persons with you"—she said, "Yes, the two parties we had before"—she then went to the door and said, "Come in, it is all right"—Manhood and Higley then came in—it was about a quarter past 12 o'clock—my husband showed them upstairs—at the time Smith asked if she could have the beds, she laid down

two shillings, one on the other—I took them up and when my husband came down I showed them to him—he tried them and I put them away by themselves, and the next morning I gave one of them to my little girl Charlotte—she went out with it and came home without it—on that I spoke to my husband and he went and fetched a constable—I had not sent up the prisoners' breakfast, and Gibbons came down and complained that the breakfast was not sent up, and while she was complaining the policeman came in at the door; Gibbons saw him and she went up stairs—he went after her and I went—he found the door closed; he threatened to break it open if it were not opened—it was opened and he went in—he took from Gibbons's hand a shilling and a sixpence which she tried to pass to Manhood—I said to Manhood, "You passed to me a bad half-crown the last time you were here"—he said that I was mistaken; and then he said, "I will pay you for all that I have given you bad;" and he offered to pay me—I was not mistaken, they are all the same parties—three of the prisoners were in the room that the policeman opened—I went into the other room where Smith was by herself—I said to her, "You gave me a bad shilling last night"—she said, "If it was bad, the other man (Higley) gave it me"—they were all given in custody.

Gibbons. I never was in your house before. Witness. Yes; I let the beds to you.

COURT. Q. Did you charge Manhood with having passed you a bad half-crown before? A. Yes, and he gave me two half-crowns, but the policeman forced them away from me.

WILLIAM SEGURT . On Tuesday evening, 2d October, the prisoners came and engaged some beds—the prisoners are the parties—I took the lights up to the landing where the rooms were—I gave one light to each couple and left them on the landing to go into the rooms—that was the last time they came—I had seen them the first time they came, when they were in the shop drinking their coffee—there was a gas-light in the shop—a very good light—I am satisfied they are the parties—on the night of 2d October my wife showed me two shillings, and the next morning I went to an oyster shop and Mr. Allen gave me part of a bad shilling—I spoke to a constable and gave I the part to him.

WILLIAM LARNEY (Police-sergeant, 30 G). On 3d October I got part of a bad shilling from Mr. Segurt, and in consequence of what he said, I went to the coffee-shop—I saw Gibbons—she saw me and ran up stairs; I ran after her, she went into a room and the door was fast—I said if it was not opened I would open it—it was opened and I went in—Manhood, Gibbons, and Higley were there—I saw Gibbons attempt to pass this shilling and sixpence which I produce to Manhood—I took them from her, and found the shilling was bad—I told her it was bad—she said, "If it is bad he gave it me,"pointing to Higley—I took Smith in the other room—I told her the shilling was bad that she passed last night—she said, "If it was bad he gave it me," pointing to Higley—I heard Mrs. Segurt tell Manhood that he had given her a bad half-crown, and he said, "If I did I will give you good for all that is bad, if you don't lock me up;" and he offered her two good half-crowns, which I did not let her take—I said, "They must go to the station with me"—I got I from Mrs. Segurt a counterfeit half-crown—I searched Manhood and found on him two good half-crowns, a florin, and 1 1/2 d. in copper; on Smith, a sixpence; on Gibbons a sixpence and fourpence.

COURT. Q. Did you hear Manhood say that Mrs. Segurt was mistaken? A. Yes; he said, "You are mistaken, I was not here;" and afterwards he offered to give good money for what was bad.

CHARLOTTE SEGURT . My mother gave me a shilling to take it a shop—I gave it to Mr. Allen in the shop—he kept it, and I went back without it—he told me to send my father.

WILLIAM ALLEN . My father keeps a fish shop—this little girl came and tendered me a bad shilling—I detained it and told her to go back for her father—her father came afterwards—before he came I had shown it to a person who broke it—I kept one part and gave it to the father.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These are all bad.

Smith's Defence. I was never in the house till the Tuesday night as I was taken on the Wednesday.

Gibbons's Defence. If what I had was bad, this prisoner gave it me.

GUILTY .— Confined Four Months each.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-858
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

858. MARY ANN POCOCK (32), was indicted for a like offence.

MR. COOKE conducted the Prosecution.

JANE PLUMMER . I am the wife of Edward Plummer, a linen-draper of Harwood-street, Kentish-town—on 12th September, the prisoner came to my shop for a pair of socks—she gave me in payment a good sovereign—I sent my daughter for change;—she brought back the change, a half-sovereign and 10s.—I gave the prisoner the half-sovereign and 9s. 4d. in silver, and a farthing—she drew the change towards her and appeared to be counting it—I was about to give her a penny and she mid, "I will have a stay-hook for a penny"—my attention was drawn from the change to get a stay-hook—after I gave her the stay-hook it was laid on the counter—I got a piece of paper from under the counter, and wrapped it in paper, and that made her change right—when she gave me the sovereign, knowing that I had not change I said, "Can you accommodate me with smaller coin?"—she said, no she could not; but when she gave me the sovereign I saw there was some smaller coin in the purse which was wrapped in paper which fell on the counter—after I had given her the stay-hook she pushed the half-sovereign towards me and said would I oblige her with change; she said, "I should like silver for this"—I said I could not give her change, I should have to send out for change and trouble my neighbours again—while she had been waiting for change she had looked at some dresses, but did not decide on buying one—she still persisted in asking for change—I said, "If you will take the dress you have been looking at, I can give you change"—she said she could not take it that day but she would take it another day, and she said she wanted the silver as she wanted to buy some other little things—I then gave my little girl the half-sovereign—she went out and Mr. Kitchen came back with her and with the half-sovereign—Mr. Kitchen spoke to the prisoner, he said, "You have a great deal of impudence to come here after coining to my shop so recently; now I hat caught you"—she denied that Mr. Kitchen knew her; she said, "You don't know me"—he said, "Yes, I do, and two other persons know you as well as I do," and he sent for them—after that Mr. Kitchen put the half-sovereign to me; lie threw it down on the counter—the prisoner made a rush at it and got it from off the counter—Mr. Kitchen laid hold of her to prevent her keeping it; she struggled with him till he got her down—I saw her get her hand to her mouth, and after that she was quiet—she left off struggling and dropped a good half-sovereign in her lap—I never saw the half-sovereign that Mr. Kitchen brought back after that—the policeman picked up a bit of tissue paper on the floor and he found the half-sovereign and 9s. on her.

WILLIAM KITCHEN . I am a colourman of 1, Charles-place, Kentish-town

—on 12th September, the little girl came to my shop for change for a bad half-sovereign—I went with her to Mrs. Plummer's, and on entering the shop I saw the prisoner—I recognised her directly and said, "Have you the impudence to come here, having so recently come in my shop?"—she said, "You don't know me"—I said, "I do, and you shan't get away this time"—I put the half-sovereign down on the counter and she seized it—I said, "She wants to swallow it;" and I seized her, for she was very violent, and I thought she would break the glass—I put her down; she struggled violently and put her mouth to her hand, and I heard something rattle against her teeth—she then ceased struggling and dropped a good halfsovereign in her lap—I said, "I don't want that, that is a good one; you have swallowed the other"—she said, "I must have a large swallow then"—she had come to my shop, I think, about five weeks before and had a bottle of capers—she tendered me a sovereign—I had to send out for change—when the boy came back with the change handed her the half-sovereign and the change—I had occasion to turn my back for a short time to unpack a case and she said, "Let me look at the sardines again"—she put the silver in her purse and put a half-sovereign to me and said, "Give me silver, I don't like this small money, I am afraid of losing it"—I took the half-sovereign to give her change and I felt it was light and a bad one—I said, "This is bad"—she said, "It is the one given to me"—I sent the boy back to Mr. Sherriff as she kept talking so much—Mr. Sherriff came and said it was a bad half-sovereign—the prisoner took the piece, and she said, "Give me a half-sovereign or I will go for a policeman;" she went out and never returned—I sent for Mr. Sherriff, and for another neighbour, Mr. Suter; they came to Mrs. Plummer's shop and saw the prisoner—I found a bit of tissue paper on the floor.

SUTER. I am a publican—I went to Mrs. Plummer's shop—I saw the prisoner—I had seen her before in Mr. Kitchen's shop—I am sure it was her.

WILLIAM SHERRIFF . I am a corn dealer, and was in Mrs. Plummers's shop—I saw the prisoner; I had seen her before at Mr. Kitchen's—I had given Mr. Kitchen change for a five-pound note—I gave two half-sovereigns that were good—what was afterwards brought to me was not like a halfsovereign.

MARIA MATCHER . I am the daughter of Mrs. Plummer, and live with her—on 12th September, my mother gave me a sovereign—I got change and gave it my mother—I saw the prisoner in the shop—my mother gave me a half-sovereign afterwards to go for change; I went with it to Mr. Kitchen, who went directly to our shop—I went after him—I saw him put the prisoner down on the floor—I saw the prisoner put her hand to her mouth while she was down on the floor.

GREGORY O'LOUGHLIN (Policeman, S 122). On 12th September, I went to Mrs. Plummer's; the prisoner was given into my custody—I received a good half-sovereign from Mr. Kitchen—9s. 41/4d. was found on the prisoner—I asked the prisoner to give her residence and she gave No. 20, Paddingtongreen—I went, but she is not known there—I produce a bit of tissue paper which was picked up in Mrs. Plummer's shop—it was near the prisoner; Mrs. Plummer told me to look for it

Prisoners Defence. It is quite false to say that I had been in that gentleman's shop; I never was in his shop. What I gave Mrs. Plummet was what I got from her; it was the very half-sovereign that she gave me

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

OLD COURT.—Wednesday, October 24th, 1860.

PRESENT—The Right Hon. the LORD MAYOR; Lord Chief Baron POLLOCK; Mr. Baron MARTIN; Mr. Justice HILL; Sir John MUSGROVE, Bart Ald.; Sir FRANCIS GRAHAM MOON, Bart Ald.; Mr. Ald, SALOMONS; Sir HENRY MUGGERIDGE, Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald. HALE; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.

Before Lord Chief Baron Pollock,

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-859
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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859. JOSEPH COPCUTT (27), Was indicted for stealing, whist employed in the Post Office, a post letter containing a gold pin, a brooch, and a bracelet, the property of Her Majesty's Postmaster-general; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY . Confined Fifteen Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-860
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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860. MARTIN DONOHAR (23) , Stealing, whilst employed in the Post Office, a post letter, containing a half-sovereign, a dollar, a silver coin, and six postage stamps, the property of Her Majesty's Postmaster-general

MESSRS. CLERK and METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN GARDNER . I am one of the senior clerks in the General PostOffice—the prisoner was a letter-carrier there; he had to deliver letters on 12th October, in Rosamon-street walk, Clerkenwell—on that day I made up a letter, and I enclosed in it a half-sovereign, a two and a half American gold dollar piece, an American silver coin called a dime, and six postage stamps; I marked the whole of them before putting them into the envelope—I put some gum paper round the coins so as to prevent them from falling out—I placed them in an envelope addressed to Mrs. Green, 13, Lloyd's-row, Clerkenwell, London—I then gave the letter to Mr. Clare; he was acquainted with the object that I had in view—if posted according to my directions it would have reached the prisoner's hands for delivery about 12 o'clock—the place that I put as the address would be within his delivery—after he had finished his delivery it was his duty to return between 3 and 4 o'clock to the Post Office; he did so that afternoon—in consequence of information I received I sent for him about 4 o'clock that afternoon to my private room—Upfold the officer was with me—I asked the prisoner whether he made the 12 o'clock delivery on that day in the Rosamon-street walk—he said, "Yes"—I asked whether Lloyd's-row was in his delivery—he said, "Yes"—I said, "Well, a money letter, which should have been delivered by you with the 12 o'clock letters, addressed to Mrs. Green, 13, Lloyd's-row, is missing, do you know anything about it?"—he replied, "No, indeed; nothing at all"—I then directed Upfold to search him—I saw him take from his pocket 8s. 6d. in silver and about one shilling's worth of copper money—I then sent Upfold and Clare to Lloyd's-row, while I remained with the prisoner—on their return Mr. Clare showed me, in the prisoner's presence, this half-sovereign (produced)—it is the one I had inclosed in the letter; I find the same mark upon it, two figures of five on the shield, marked with a punch—I then asked the prisoner if he had changed a half-sovereign anywhere that day; he said, "No, I have not"—I then asked if he knew the Hope and Anchor public-house in Lloyd's-row—he said, "Yes, I did change a half-sovereign there to-day"—I then showed him the half-sovereign and said, "This half-sovereign the landlord, of the Hope and Anchor states you changed at his house about 1 o'clock to-day; it was enclosed in the letter which you ought to have delivered, addressed to Mrs. Green, where did you get it from?"—he replied, "The half-sovereign I changed at the Hope and Anchor I saved From my wages since last Saturday"

—I then directed the officers to take the prisoner to Bow-street and charge him with stealing the letter addressed to Mrs. Green; the prisoner then observed, "Then you will be able to prove tomorrow that the halfsovereign was enclosed in the letter at 12 o'clock to-day?"—I said, "The gentleman who was in the room just now will be able to do so if necessary," meaning Mr. Clare—the prisoner remained silent for a few seconds, then tossed up his head and said, "Four years."

WILLIS CLARE . I am inspector of letter-carriers at the General postoflice—I was present when Mr. Gardner made up the letter on 12th October—I saw the money placed in the gum paper, and the in the letter—I looked at the money before it was placed in the letter—I saw the marks which Mr. Gardner put on the money—this is the half-sovereign, I see here the marks that I observed when Mr. Gardner placed the money in the letter—I posted the letter at the chief office about twenty minutes past 11 in the day—I had given information to Mr. John Swain, an inspector in the office, that such a letter would be posted—I was in the office when the prisoner was making up his letters for delivery, and I saw him lean over his seat in this way, feeling his letters as if to see if there was coin in them; he had a memorandum book near him, and I saw him turn round and place I a letter in this little blue-covered book—he then put the book in his pocket and left the room—he returned to his desk in two or three minutes where lie was setting up his letters; he placed himself in the same position again, leaning over his seat—he soon afterwards left the office to deliver his letter in the Rosamon-street walk; he returned to the post-office about 4 o'clock—I afterwards went with the constable Upfold to the Hope and Anchor; I the landlord took four half-sovereigns out of his pocket; from those four half-sovereigns I identified this one—it is the one I saw in the morning I placed in the letter—I returned with it to the Post-office, where The Prisoner I was remaining with Mr. Gardner.

Prisoner. Q. If you saw me take a letter and put it in my book, and go down stairs to destroy it, why not take me in charge there and ilen? A, I could not swear it was this letter, therefore I let you go till I ascertained, I whether it had been delivered—I did not see you destroy any letter.

COURT. Q. How long has he been in the post-office? A. Rather better than two years—his wages were a guinea a week—he is a single man.

JOHN SWAIN . I am inspector of letter-carriers—On 12th October, between 11 and 12 o'clock, I took out of the box a letter addressed to "Mrs. Green, Lloyd's-row"—I noticed that letter very particularly—on that morning I placed that letter among others before the prisoner for his delivery—the letters are not always counted, they are sometimes, not as a rule—they were not counted in this instance—they are counted by the stampers—I placed the letters before him; and, among others, I put the one addressed to Mrs. Green—that was when he was absent, before he came to set them up—I noticed the letter; it was in my possession some time before—I am quite sure that letter was on the table when ho came to set them up—I am quite I sure it came into his possession at About 12 o'clock—he left the office about twenty minutes past 12, or, perhaps, before that.

KEZIAH GREEN . I live at 13, Lloyd's-row, Clerkenwell—I was at home on 12th October all day—I had received information that a letter was coming to me on that day—no letter was delivered at my house by the prisoner on that day.

HENRY SMITH . I keep the Hope and Anchor public-house in Lloyd's-row. Clerkwenwell—I know the prisoner as a letter-carrier on that walk—on 12th

October he came to my house about 1 o'clock—he asked far a glass of Porter, and gave me half-a-sovereign in payment for it—I gave him change, 9s. 6d. in silver, and five pennyworth of halfpence—I put the half-sovereign he gave me into my trousers' pocket—I afterwards took three other half-sovereign in the course of the morning before the constable came to me—I kept the four half-sovereigns in my trousers pocket until the constable came with Mr. Clare—I then took the four half sovereigns out of my pocket and placed them on the counter—Mr. Clare examined three, and found it was neither of those; and the fourth he took up and detected the mark directly, and took that one away.

Prisoner. Q. When I gave you the half-sovereign was it put in the till? A. No; in my trouser's pocket

MR. METCALFE. Q. Are you quite sure that the one you received from the prisoner was among those you showed to the constable? A, Yes.

WILLIAM UPFOLD . I am a police-constable attached to the post-office—on 12th October, about 1 o'clock, I went to Lloyd's-row—I saw the prisoner deliver letters on that beat—I noticed him when he came to No. 13—he walked in the carriage-way, looked up at the house, and went by—he did not deliver any letter there; I am quite sure of that—he then went away round his walk—lie had previous to that entered the Hope and Anchor public-house—he remained there probably two or three minutes, and then went on just No. 13, and round his walk—I then returned to the post-office—I was there when Mr. Gardner called the prisoner into the room, I searched him—he had 8s. 6d. in silver, and some copper money—I afterwards went with Mr. Clare to the Hope and Anchor, and saw Mr. Smith produce from his pocket the four half-sovereigns—I saw Mr. Clare select the one which is here now—the prisoner was afterwards given into my custody—I took him in a cab to the Bow-street station—on the way he said to me "I suppose if that gentleman proves the half-sovereign was in the letter I shall get four years "—he then said,"What has become of Finch?" meaning another letter-carrier, who was tried here in April last, and had four years, "Is he gone to Bermuda"—I told him I did not know what had become of him.

Prisoner. When he got me in the cab he said, "You may as well be civil and quiet, and tell me the truth; don't do as Finch did"—I said, "Who is Finch?"and he said, "The man that got four years;" I said nothing about Finch. Witness, He did; I had not said a word to him about Finch—I certainly told him to be civil, as he was very abusive.

ALFRED BOND WACKET . I am a letter-carrier in the General Post-Office—I was on duty there on 12th October, in the middle of the day; the prisoner was there, setting up his letters for delivery—I was sitting opposite him—the table has a wire-work partition running down the middle of it—I was on the one side of the partition, and he on the other—he left his seat, and was absent two or three minutes—when he returned I saw him scratching and rubbing what appeared to be a coin in his fingers—it appeared to be a halfsovereign—he was rubbing white paper which was round it, firmly adhering to it—as soon as I saw that I mentioned it to one of the letter-carriers—the prisoner left the office before me.

Prisoner. Q. If you saw me scratching the coin why not get me taken at once? A. I made a communication to one of the inspectors—it might be two hours afterwards.

MR. CLERK. Q. When was it you mentioned it to the letter-carrier? A. Immediately afterwards, about two minutes afterwards—the niau is here.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin to Her Majesty's Mint—I

am constantly in the habit of examining coins, I see a figure 5 on this half-sovereign in two places.

GUILTY .— Four Years' Penal Servitude.

Before Mr. Justice Martin.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-861
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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861. THOMAS COOK (24) , B—g—y, with Isaacs. Isaacs,

MR. HORRY conducted the Prosecution.

GUILTY of the Attempt.— Confined Eighteen Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-862
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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862. WILLIAM DAVISON (.), Was indicted for unlawfully assaulting Annie Dickenson.

MR. F. H. LEWIS appeared for the Prosecution; and MR. SLEIGH and Mr. Best defended the Prisoner, who pleaded Not Guilty; and MR. SLEIGH Hun tendered on his behalf a further plea, setting forth that the defendant had been tried before the Deputy-Assistant Judge, and certain other Justices, at the Session for the County of Middlesex, holden at Westminster, &c.; and that the jury then not being able to agree upon their verdict were, after being locked up six hours, discharged by the said Deputy-Assistant Judge presiding; it also set forth that it did not appear on the record that there was any necessity for discharging the jury by reason of the illness, tow-conduct, or infirmity of any one or more of the said jurors. To this plea MR. F. H. LEWIS tendered a replication, to which MR, SLEIGH demurred. In the course of the argument MR. SLEIGH cited the following authorities in support of his proposition, that a Judge can only discharge a jury from some real necessity and not of his own caprice, and that upon a jury being discharged the cause of such discharge should appear by the Record—1st and 3d Coke's Institutes, 4th vol. of Blackstone's Commentaries, by Stephen; and Beg. v. harvey, State Trials, 414; Conolly v. Lynch, 7th Irush Law Reports, 149; and Reg. v, Catharine Newton, 13 Q. B. Reports, 716. THE LORD CHIEF BARON, MR. BARON MARTIN, and MR. JUSTICE HILL, without calling upon Mr. Lewis, I ruled that the plea could not be sustained; they were all of opinion that the Judge presiding at the trial was sole judge as to whether a necessity for such a proceeding as discharging a jury had arisen, that he was at liberty to exercises I his discretion, and that there was no appeal to any other tribunal as to whether. I in exercising that discretion, he had done so rightly. The trial then proceded, MR. SLEIGH defending the prisoner. NOT GUILTY .

NEW COURT.—Wednesday, October 24th 1860,


Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-863
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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863. HUGH LEVORNE (22) , Breaking out of the dwelling of Henry Pierce Ford, having stolen 4 spoons and other articles, his property; having been before convicted he PLEADED GUILTY .— Ten Years Penal Servitude ,

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-864
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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864. JOHN RICHARD ASHFORD (16) , Stealing 16 bottles and 4 quarts of oil, the property of >Richard Nelson Collins and another, his masters; to which he PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-865
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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865. JOHN FRENCH (32) , Stealing 1 watch, value 2l. 10s. the property of Frank Crew Read, to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-866
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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866. WALTER CRANBROOK WOOD (25) , Embezzling 18l. 6s., 15l., and 11l. 19s., the monies of James Allen and another, his masters; to which he PLEADED GUILTY .— Recommended to mercy by the prosecutor.— Confined Six Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-867
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown

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867. THOMAS CHAMBERLAIN (19), and WILLIAM SMETHURST (31) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin, having other counterfeit coins in their possession.

MESSRS. ELLIS and M. J. O'CONNILL conducted the Prosecution.

FRANK GABRIEL BURROWS . I live with my father, who keeps the Hope beer-house—On the evening of 11th October, about a quarter-past 7 o'clock, the two prisoners came in and Smethurst called for a pint of fourpenny half-and-half; I served them—Chamberlain paid for it with a shilling; I took it up and bit it—I went to my father and said, "Father, here is a bad shilling"—my father said, "I am very sorry, sir, but I can't take this, it is a bad shilling" Smethurst took it out of my father's hand and said to Chamberlain, "You have got it now, Tom, it is a rank bad one"—Chamberlain took and bit the shilling about, and Smethurst went to throw it over the house, but he said, "No I won't do that—it may go in someone's eyes"—Smethurst then went to the tap-room to put it into the fire—I can't say whether he did or not—Chamberlain then paid a penny and Smethurst paid three halfpence for the pint of half-and-half—they remained about five minutes after that, and they left together—they had come in together—Smethurst said to my father "You are very clever, but your cleverness will nick you."

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did you ever say that before? A. Yes; at Hammersmith, when the prisoners were examined and committed—I said so to that gentleman at the table—my father is not here—the prisoners were in the house about four minutes before Chamberlain gave the shilling—I did not hear them say that they had been to another public-house, and won some money there.

Cross-examined by MR. M'DONNELL. Q. Is Smethurst a butcher residing at Hammersmith? A. Yes—I don't know that Chamberlain lived with him—I had not seen Chamberlain before that night to my recollection—I saw Smethurst go towards the fire and I saw him make a stoop close, to it—they came came in together and left together—they stayed from five to ten minutes after Smethurst said he would put the shilling in the fire—they did not sit down—there were two gentlemen in front of the bar, and one gentleman with my father behind the bar—I never heard anything said about pitching and tossing—I don't remember that there had been a boat race that day—there was not an unusual number of persons in our house that day.

LOUISA MAIDMENT . I live at the Six Bells public-house, at Hammersmith—On 11th October about half-past eight o'clock in the evening the two prisoners came to the bar together, Chamberlain asked for three pennyworth of gin and water—I served him and Smethurst paid me a shilling—I gave him ninepence change—I gave the shilling to my aunt—I put it in the cup-board; it was not out of my sight—the prisoners had two more glasses, the first was paid for with three pennyworth of halfpence, and the other with a sixpence, which was good—I looked at the shilling again next morning—I saw it was bad—I bit it and gave it to Sergeant Brown.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Was it not Chamberlain who paid you for what they had? A. No, Smethurst—they tossed up for it and Smethurst gave me the shilling; I said Chamberlain before the Magistrates, but I meant Smethurst—I put the shilling in the cupboard—we have no till—

all the silver we take is put into the cupboard, but I put that shilling by itself on the lower shelf away from the other silver—there are four shelves in the cupboard and two of them are devoted to keeping money—there is no copper put in there, that is put into a drawer—no other person served that day, but me and my aunt—I remained there the whole evening and my aunt, but she did not serve any one; she was sitting in the parlour—we had very few customers that evening; eight or nine—next morning I found the shilling was bad, and I gave it to Sergeant Brown—I had shown it to my aunt the night before, as she was sitting in the parlour—I did not hear the prisoners talk about what they had won in tossing or about a boat race.

Cross-examined by MR. M'DONNELL. Q. While you were giving the shilling to your aunt, were the prisoners at the counter? A. Yes—I saw my aunt look at the shilling and she gave it me again directly—the prisoners were still at the bar—my aunt gave me directions to put the shilling in the cupboard—I did not make any remark to the prisoners about the shilling, nor did my aunt—it was between 8 and 9 o'clock when the prisoners came, and after that eight or nine persons came—I served those other customers with ale and beer—I went to the cupboard once, that was to put a sixpence in—we closed at 11 o'clock—the prisoner remained at the bar about a quarter of an hour after my aunt passed the money to me—during the whole of that time I said nothing to them about the shilling.

MR. ELLIS, Q. While your aunt was examining this shilling, was it out of your sight? A. No—that was the only shilling on that shelf—the last I saw of the cupboard that night was when we closed at 11 o'clock; I went to the cupboard at 7 the next morning—there was no other shilling on the shelf—I found it to be bad on the evening they gave it to me; I bit it and found it to be gritty.

GEORGE BROWN (Police-sergeant, 18 T). On the night of 11th October, I went after the prisoners in consequence of information; I found them in the Swan public-house at Hammersmith—I told them I should search them on a charge of uttering counterfeit coin to the neighbours—Chamberlain allowed me to search him quietly; I found no bad money but five sixpences and a four-penny-piece, good, and one shilling and threepence in coppers—Smethurst said two b—y policemen should not search him—I said, "One will try to do it; we will have it, rough or smooth"—and with the assistance of another constable I took two bad half-crowns and two bad shillings out of his right hand—his hand was clenched, and I had to double his wrist to take it from him—I found in the pocket of his coat or slop, a florin, two sixpences, and eightpence halfpenny in copper—no money was bad, but that I found in his hand; this is the money I found in his hand—on the following morning the last witness gave me a shilling, which I produce.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Had you another officer with you? A. Yes—I fouud these men drinking in front of a bar—I did not lay hands on them; I told them what I wanted them for, and asked them if they would go in another room to be searched, if not I would search them there—Chamberlain was very smooth; like a child—Smethurst was very violent—I did not say when I went in that I knew them as well-known smashers; I did not use such words, nor anything of the kind—I had not a staff with me; I was off duty at the time—Smethurst and I both fell down together; he accidentally fell under me—I am not aware that there had been a boat race that day—the prisoners did not say that they had been at another public-house pitching and tossing, and that was where they got the bad money—I did not hear Smethurst say that he took change and got the

bad money in pitching and tossing, till after the depositions was taken, he then said he had been tossing with a man and he lost 8s. and he gave the man a sovereign and the man gave him 12s.—I know Smethurst carries on business as a butcher; I have laid out money with him.

Cross-examined by MR. M'DONNELL. Q. Did Chamberlain live with Smethurst? A. I have seen him with him; I am not aware that he was in his service—I don't know anything against his honesty; I have heard people talk—the prisoners have been under my observation some time for passing money—I have traced them to places where they have passed money, and the money has been found on them, and I have the money in my possession.

MR. ELLIS. Q. Where was it he said that he took the money at pitching and tossing? A. He did not say pitching and tossing; he said he had been gambling—that was at the police-court at Hammersmith.

ELIZABETH BEAUCHAMP . My husband keeps the Lord Raglan at Hammersmith—the two prisoners came to our house on 22d August; Chamberlain asked for a quartern of gin—the price was 4d.; I served him—he paid me with a half-crown; I gave him 2s. 2d. change—I noticed the half-crown was rather smooth and I put it on a shelf by itself—the prisoners stayed there some time, and they settled for what was to be paid afterwards by tossing—Chamberlain was to pay, and he paid a half-crown to my sister—the half-crown that I took I laid on the shelf; the other I can't say much about—my sister said she took it, but I can't answer what she did with it; the one that I took had a small mark on the head—I could have sworn to it again out of a thousand—I gave both the half-crowns to ray husband and he threw them both in the fire—I saw the prisoners again two days afterwards, on the Friday following, they were together; Chamberlain asked for a pint of half-and-half; it came to 2d.—he gave me in payment another half-crown, which was a bad one—I pointed it out to my husband and gave it back to Chamberlain, and I told him of passing the other bad ones—they stayed some little time and went away.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. You were not examined before the Magistrate? A. No—Chamberlain was the person who paid the money on each occasion—I had known Smethurst for some time—he was a tradesman in Hammersmith, but he left it—I always believed him to be a respectable man.

Cross-examined by MR. M'DONNELL. Q. These half-crowns you believed to be bad and they were put into the fire? A. Yes; because my husband thought he should hear no more of them.

EMMA SMETS . My husband keeps the City Arms at Hammersmith—On 11th October, the two prisoners came to my house in the evening; I don't recollect the hour, it was dark and the gas was lighted—they came in front of the bar; Chamberlain came in first—he asked for three half-penny worth of gin; he gave me a shilling—I gave him change; at that time Smethurst was outside, I suppose—when I took the shilling I disputed it, and said I did not like it—he sat there drinking his gin—I tried to bend the shilling in the detector, it did not bend as bad shillings do; but I said, "I would rather not take this shilling, you had better give me another," and he put his hand in his pocket and gave me another shilling—when this was done Smethurst came in; they both went out directly—this is the shilling that Chamberlain offered; here is a slight bend in it—it is a George the Fourth shilling—when I put it in the detector it made a mark on it, and it slightly bent—this is something like the mark on it.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin to the Royal Mint—these two shillings and two half-crowns are all bad—the shilling uttered by Chamberlain is from the same mould as the two found on Smethurst.

The prisoners received good characters.



Confined Fifteen Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-868
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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868. ELIZABETH SCOTT (54) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. ELLIS and M. J. O'CONNELL conducted the Prosecution

ELIZABETH BUTLER . I am barmaid at the Coach and Horses, St. Martin's-lane—I recollect the prisoner coming to our house with a man—she called for a pint of beer—I served her—she gave me a shilling—I gave her 10d. change—I put the shilling in the till—there was no other money there whatever—they left without drinking the beer—after they were gone I examined the shilling; it was bad—I put it on the fire and it melted—on 19th September the prisoner came again, about half-past 8 o'clock in the evening—she asked for a pint of beer—I served her—she gave me a sixpence—I bent it double, and told her I was waiting for her; she had been there before, and had given me a bad shilling—I gave her in charge, and gave the sixpence to the constable.

Prisoner. Q. What did I say; did I not put down 2d. for the beer, and then say I would have ale? A. I don't know what you said—I did not see any coppers at all

BENJAMIN CAUNT . I am the landlord of the Coach and Horses—I saw the prisoner that evening—she called for half-a-pint of beer—I served her—she gave me a sixpence—the beer came to a penny—I put the sixpence in the till—there were two or three other sixpences there—I gave her change, and she went away—she came again in three-quarters of an hour with a young woman, and gave the barmaid sixpence—the barmaid said it was bad—I said, "She came here three-quarters of an hour ago, and gave me a sixpence; I dare say that is bad"—I had had a suspicion of it at the time she gave it me—there were two or three more sixpences in the till, but they were all good, I know—I then went and looked in the till, and found one bad sixpence—I know that all the others were good before she gave me one—I said to the prisoner, "You were here a bit ago"—she said, "No, I have just come from Camden Town"—I gave her into custody, and gave the two sixpences to the constable—there were some other sixpences in the till before I put that one in, but they were all good, I know.

Prisoner. You looked in and found one bad sixpence, and after that you charged me with having been there. Witness. No; before I looked in the till I said, "You were here a bit ago, and gave me a sixpence, and I dare say it is bad."

JOHN PEACOCK (policeman, 99 C). I took the prisoner into custody—I received from Butler a sixpence, and another from Mr. Caunt—I found on her a florin, a shilling, and 2 1/2 d., and at the station the searcher found a fourpenny-piece, and 1s. 10d. in copper, at the bottom of her basket, all good.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These sixpences are both bad.

Prisoner's Defence. The night that the prosecutor says I gave him a bad sixpence I was down as far as Sutton, and I came up in a waggon as far as Westminster Bridge, and it was ten minutes past 8 o'clock; from there I walked as far as St. Martin's-lane with a man, and had I any friends to seek that man he could clear me from being in the prosecutor's house, as he stated, three-quarters of an hour before, and given him another bad sixpence in

St. Martin's-Jane I met a young woman I knew; I asked her to come and have a pint of beer; I put down 2d. to pay for it; the woman told me to make it a pint of ale, and she gave me a sixpence to pay for it; the prosecutor took three sixpences out of his till, and bit them; he found one bad sixpence, and he then said I had been there three-quarters of an hour before; he stated three different tales—first, to the Magistrates, he said that I gave his daughter a shilling, and she threw it in the fire; the second statement he brought his barmaid to say that I give it to her, and she put it in the fire; then he said the policeman took it out of my hand.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-869
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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869. MARY MORGAN (35), was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. ELLIS and M. J. O'CONNELL conducted the Prosecution.

EMMA RICE . I am the daughter of William Rice, a baker of Stockbridgeterrace, Pimlico—on 6th September the prisoner came and asked for a sixpenny plum-cake—I served her and she gave me a half-crown—I gave it to the boy, Alfred Ward, and told him in the prisoner's presence to take it down stairs to my father.

ALFRED WARD . I live at Mr. Rice's—I got a half-crown from Emma Rice and took it down to my master.

WILLIAM RICE . I am a baker of Stock bridge-terrace, Pimlico, and am the father of the first witness—on 6th September, I got a half-crown from Alfred Ward; I brought it up stairs and told the prisoner it was bad—she took it up, rattled it, and said I must be mistaken—I tried it again and said, "No, it is a bad one"—she told me to cut it in halves, and I cut it—she then said she would take it back to the lady where she had come from to fetch this sixpenny cake—she had before that told me she had got it from a lady—I asked her where the lady lived, and as she gave me no satisfactory answer I sent for a policeman—I cut the half-crown and put it on the counter and she snatched it off—there was a basket near her and the dropped it in—I asked her for it when the policeman came and she said she knew nothing about it—I told the policeman I knew where it was—I took the bread out of the basket and there I found the half-crown—I knew it by the cut on it—I gave it to the policeman—this is it (produced).

RICHARD RELF (Policeman, 210 B). I took the prisoner—I received this half-crown from Mr. Rice—the prisoner gave her name, Mary Ward, 9, Brook-place, Bayswater—that was false—she was taken before the Magistrate at Westminster, remanded and then discharged—I enquired at the address she gave; nothing was known of her there.

ABRAHAM CHARD . I am a bootmaker living at 39, Hampstead-row—I know the prisoner by sight now; she came to my shop on 6th October for a pair of boots at 3s. 3d., and she gave me a half-crown and a shilling, I gave her threepence change and she left—constable, 29 S then came to the door and said something to me—I gave him the half-crown and the shilling which had been in my hand in the meanwhile—the shilling was good and the half-crown bad.

Prisoner. Q. Had you not put it in your pocket? A. No.

WILLIAM HOLMES (Policeman, 29 S). I know the prisoner—on 6th October I saw her in the Hampstead-road, and having known her for some time I followed her for about ten minutes—I saw her go into Mr. Chard's shop—when she came out I went in and received this half-crown (produced)—I then went after the prisoner and took her in custody—she was searched and in this bag were some keys, a half-crown, 5 1/4 d. in copper, and a pair of

boots—she was asked for her name and she said, "Find out"—she gave no address.

JANE RAGSDALE . My husband is an ironmonger in Upper Berkeley-street—on 23d July the prisoner came for a bed-key; the price was one shilling—I served her, and she offered me in payment a five-shilling piece—I noticed the instant she gave it me that it was bad and told her it would not do for me—I called my husband and gave it to him.

Prisoner. Q. Your husband came up and rang it on the stones, and said he believed it to be bad? A. Yes; you said you would go over the road and change it, and he said he would go, and he went.

JOHN RAGSDALE . I am the husband of the last witness—just after we had closed, quite dusk, I heard her say, "This money won't do for me"—I said, "What is the matter? I"—she said, "This woman has given me a bad five-shilling piece—I rang it and said I did not think it was bad, but I would go over and try it in my neighbour's detector—I did so and found it was bad—I came back and pushed her out of the shop—I then followed her for about an hour up several streets, and saw her go into a public-house—I spoke to a policeman and gave her in charge—I gave the five-shilling piece to 131 D.

GEORGE DAWE (Policeman, 131 D). I took the prisoner on 23d July, and got a crown from Mr. Ragsdale—she gave the name of Emily Brooks—I asked her for her address and she refused to give it—she was brought up to the Court and remanded till 9th August—nothing else was proved against her, Ragsdale being then unable to attend, and she was discharged.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These coins are all bad—the two half-crowns are not from the same would.

GUILTY .†— Confined Nine Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-870
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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870. LOUIS DOBRELL (22), was indicted for a like offence.

MR. ELLIS conducted the Prosecution.

(The prisoner being a foreigner the evidence was interpreted to him.)

JOHN JOSEPH . I am a cab driver, living at 2, Cheadle-place, Tottenham-court-road—On Wednesday night, 6th September, the prisoner and another man engaged my cab at the corner of Regent-circus, Oxford-street—they told me to go to Cranbourn-street, Leicester-square—the other man got out first, next door to a public-house, at the corner of Bean-street, and he ordered me to take the prisoner to the first turning on the left-hand side in Cranbourn-street, and that the prisoner would tell me where to stop as he could not speak English very well—I stopped at Mr. Munday's, a carpenter and joiner—the prisoner got out of the cab and pulled out, a porte monnaie—he said, "Have you got 4s. change?"—he spoke it almost as plainly as I could myself, except a little foreign accent—he pulled out a crown and "handed it to me—I gave him a florin and two shillings change—he said, "If you wait a moment I will see if I have any coppers to give you to get something to drink"—he then put his hand in his back coat pocket and gave me 2d.—I put the crown and the 2d. into my pocket—I had no other crown or anything else in my pocket except five single shillings—I afterwards found that the crown was bad—I found that there was a person taken up for passing bad money, and went to the Mansion House and recognised the prisoner—I gave the crown to the policeman.

JAMES GASH . I live near Brunswick-square, and am a cab-driver—The prisoner hired my cab on Thursday night, 27th September, at a few minutes past 10, from the Foundling rank in Guilford-street—he desired me to go

to Long-acre—as I passed Freemason's Tavern, he pulled me up, got out of the cab, gave me a five-shilling piece and said, "Give me 4s."—I sounded the five-shilling piece on the pavement, and just then some one called a cab on the opposite side—I put my hand in my pocket and gave the prisoner two florins—he gave me 2d. and said, "Get yourself a glass of ale"—I pulled over directly to get the other job, and it was gone; there was no man there—I went into the public-house adjoining and called for a glass of ale—the crown was refused—I took it, drove to Bow-street and gave it to Mr. Witham the inspector on duty.

THOMAS WITHAM (Police-inspector, F), On 27th September, I received this counterfeit crown (produced).

Henry Stovell. I am a cab driver of 3, High-street, Camberwell—On Saturday, 29th September, I was in Fleet-street—the prisoner hired my cab there—he told me to go to Lombard-street—he pulled me up in Lombard-street at a passage that leads into King William-street—he got out there, and asked me if I had got 4s.—I said, "Yes," and gave him 4s.—he gave me 2d. to get something to drink, and a counterfeit five-shilling piece—he went away through the passage in rather a hurried way, which caused me to have suspicion of the piece—I drove round to a public-house in Queen-street and tried to get it changed there—the man there put it in the detector and bent it—it was bad—I met the prisoner after that against the Mansion House—I said, "Here, I want you," and as soon as he saw me he ran away to the back of the Mansion House—I afterwards gave the crown to the constable—I followed the man and overtook him—the policeman. stopped him—I was close upon him then.

CHARLES HAMMOND . I am a cab driver of 83, James-street, Lambeth—On 23d September last, I saw the prisoner, at twenty minutes after 12 in the Waterloo-road—he called me; I pulled over, and he held up a written paper—I took it in my hand, but could not see to read it on account of its being dark—I gave it him back again shaking my head, to show that I did not understand it—he asked me in broken English what would I take him to Astley's theatre for—I said, "A shilling"—he said, "Very well"—he palled out a porte monnaie from his pocket and held up a five-shilling piece in my face and said, "Give me 4s."—I gave him three shillings and two sixpences—he got into the cab and I took him to Astley's theatre—just opposite the theatre he called out loud "Turn to the left"—I turned round the corner, and presently I heard the door of the cab grinding against the iron wheel, and found he had jumped out without my knowing—I pulled up underneath a lamp-post and examined the coin and found it was bad—I gave it to a constable at the Mansion House.

HENRY HAYES (City-policeman, 458). On 29th September, Saturday night, I took the prisoner in St. Swithin's-lane, near the Mansion House—he was running towards me—I heard a cry of "Stop thief!"—I stopped him and the cabman came up and gave him into custody—I searched him—I found on him 13s. altogether, three half-crowns, two florins, and 6d. in copper money, all good—he pretended not to understand English—here are the crowns, one produced by Stovell, one by Joseph, and one by Hammond.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These four crown-pieces are all bad, and from one mould.

Prisoner's Defence. I only know one of the cab drivers that have appeared against me, who produced a five-shilling piece, which was given me by another person.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-871
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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871. JAMES CARBINE (26) , Stealing a watch, value 2l., of Thomas Waring Robinson, from his person.

MR. ERNEST JONES conducted the Prosecution,

THOMAS WARING ROBINSON . I live at 15, Hill-street, Finsbury, with my father—On Saturday afternoon, 29th September, I was in Basinghall-street—I found a crowd there listening to a man who was playing some music—when I was leaving the crowd I found I could not easily get away—I. felt; my watch-guard pulled; I looked down and distinctly saw ray watch in the prisoner's hand—I put down my hand to take it out of his hand—he had got the case off, dropped it on the ground, and ran away—he was stopped by a butcher—he ran through Mason's-avenue, a court from Basinghall-street into Coleman-street—I picked up the watch-case.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. The watch never left you; was it attached to you still with the chain? A. It still hung to my neck by the chain, it did not leave my person—the crowd was not very great, there were about thirty people—that is the only time that my watch has come out in that way in passing a crowd—I have never found it suspended to some gentleman's button before.

HENRY JOHN COLSON . I live at 11, Gold-square, Minories, and am an artist's assistant—On the afternoon of 29th September, I was in Basinghall-street, drawing a truck—I saw a crowd—the prisoner was in front of the handle of my cart and pretending to push out of my way, and he laid hold of the guard with the left hand, and the prosecutor's watch with his right hand—when he saw the prosecutor looking down he made a slight tug at it and ran away—the case fell on the pavement—I went after him; he was stopped by a butcher before I got to him.

Cross-examined. Q. Was this a gold chain? A. 'No; a silk guard—I went to the police-office directly—I stopped with the prosecutor as long as I could, but my truck would not go down some of the streets.

THOMAS JACKSON (City-policeman, 169). About a quarter to 1 o'clock on Saturday afternoon, 29th September, I found the prisoner detained by somebody, and took him into custody—I searched him at the stationhouse and found nothing on him—he gave me several addresses that were false—I have not been able to find out his address—when charged he said nothing.

Cross-examined. Q. Then you do not know whether he lives at the east or west end? A. No.

GUILTY of the attempt to steal— Confined Four Months ,

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-872
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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872. JOSEPH ROCKER (21) , Stealing a watch value 4l., the property of John Isaac Israel, from his person.

MR. PLATT conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN ISAAC ISRAEL . I am a butcher of Rowland-row, Stepney-green—on 17th October I was in Dorset-street, Salisbury-square, about 4 o'clock in the afternoon—a crowd was round a drunken woman—I went up to see—I did not perceive any one till I felt a tug at my watch, in front of me—I looked down and saw my guard hanging down by my watch—I had seen my watch safe the very instant before that—I did not exactly see it—I felt it was there in my waitcoat-pocket—when I looked down and saw the chain hanging, the watch was gone—I saw the prisoner standing within half-a-yard of me, in front—he was the only person near me—there was a crowd

certainly, but he was near me, and with his back to me, just turned round—he was so close as to leave no doubt on my mind that it could be no one but he that had taken it—when I turned round he ran away—I ran after him calling, "Stop thief!" as lustily as I could, and in, I should think, about five, or six, or eight minutes afterwards, I found him in the custody of a policeman—this is my watch, and it is the same that I lost on that occasion—I was showing it at the time—the constable produced it—lie had the prisoner in custody—it is my watch.

Prisoner. When asked by the policeman if I was the man that took his watch, he said, "No." Witness. I was asked the question, and I said, "That is the man; I know him perfectly"—I said I did not sufficiently see his face, but by his whole contour of person I knew him, and I knew the collar of his coat; it was rather a peculiar collar—I had followed him the whole way.

FREDERICK PHILPOTT . I am a cheesemonger's assistant, and live in Fetter-lane—I was in Dorset-street on this afternoon, at this time, close to the last witness—the prisoner was standing next to me, and I looked him very hard in the face—I saw him take Mr. Israel's watch out of his pocket, wrench it off the chain, run away a little distance, and then drop an old rag as he ran, and the people stopped then; they did not follow—I saw him. taken out of the passage—I looked him hard in the face before he took the watch—there were two of them.

Prisoner. Q. Did Mr. Israel promise you any money at the station-house if you came up as a witness against me? A. No; he did not give me any at the time.

JAMES PICTON (Policeman, F 101). About 4 o'clock on the afternoon of the 17th, I was passing near this place—I saw a crowd of people there—I saw a police-constable, named Cossens, go into a passage at a printing-office in Union-street, that is within about two minutes' walk of Dorset-street—I saw him fetch the prisoner out of the passage—I afterwards went into the passage, searched, and found this watch (produced) behind the very door from which the prisoner was taken.

GEORGE SHELDON COSSENS (City-policeman, 335). About 4 o'clock on the afternoon of the 17th, I saw a crowd in Union-street—from what I heard I went in search of somebody—I found the prisoner hiding behind the door of a printing-office, in a passage in Union-street—he stood behind the door as straight as he could—I saw the last witness find this watch—I took the prisoner to the station and searched him.

Prisoner's Defence. I was in Farringdon-street, talking to a cabman, and saw a man running up one of the by-turnings into the passage—the cabman said to me, "Joe, whatever that man has stolen, he has very likely thrown it in there;" I went there and picked it up; I was afraid of coming out for fear I should be accused of the robbery; when I was brought out he asked the prosecutor if I was the man and the prosecutor said he did not know. I know nothing of it. GUILTY **+.— Confined Twelve Months.

THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, October 24th, 1860.



22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-873
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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873. WILLIAM THOMPSON (17) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Mary Baskett, and stealing therein 2 coats, 2 pairs of trousers, 2 waistcoats, and other articles, her property second Count feloniously receiving the same.

MR. GENT conducted the Prosecution.

MARY BASKETT . I live in the Old-road, Enfield, with my mother—it is my house—on Sunday night, 30th October, I went to bed about 10 o'clock—I looked round and everything was fast—I sleep on the ground floor and my mother up stairs—in the middle of the night I was awoke about 3 o'clock—I heard a noise at the foot of my bed; some one trampling about—I said, "Mother, is that you?"—no one answered me, and I thought it was the cat—I laid a little longer—I afterwards got up, and found the middle door and the back door open—I missed several articles—my work-box was lying close to the door, and there was a place open where the tiles had been taken off—the tiles come low down—the place would admit a youth through—I went up stairs, and missed two coats, two pairs of trousers, two waistcoats, and other things out of a box—a handkerchief, a shirt, and a pair of braces were gone—part of them were mine and part were Mr. Patten's—I saw them safe on Sunday morning, about 9 o'clock; the box was then closed but not locked—part of these are my son's—this is his shirt, trousers, and other things; they are all mine except this waistcoat and shirt—this is my work-box; it was left in the garden—it had been opened—there was nothing of value in it.

JOSEPH PATTEN . I am an attendant at Colney Hatch lunatic asylum—I left my clothes at Mrs. Baskett's—this shirt is mine; it has my name on it—this waistcoat is mine—I left them with Mrs. Baskett on 25th September,

SIDNEY SMAHALL (Policeman, N 513). I took the prisoner in Bishops-gate-street, on 4th October—I told him I charged him with breaking into Mrs. Baskett's house—he made no reply—I found this waistcoat, shirt, braces, and other things on him; he was wearing them.

WILLIAM BIRD (Police-sergeant, N 85). I am stationed at Enfield-highway; at a quarter before 5 o'clock on the morning of the 1st October my attention was called to this burglary—I went to the place, and found several tiles had been removed and an opening made large enough for a person to get through—I had seen the prisoner on the Sunday night—I had passed him in front of the prosecutrix's house, at half-past 7 o'clock—he was then alone.

Prisoner's Defence. I bought the things in the street on that Sunday. I had been out of work some time.

GUILTY on the second Count. Recommended to mercy, by the Prosecutixr, who stated that he had no parents.— Confined Four Months

OLD COURT.—Thursday, October 25th, and Friday, October 26th 1660.


Before Lord Chief Baron Pollock.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-874
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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874. JAMES MULLINS (52), was indicted for the wilful murder of Mary Emsley; he was also charged on the coroner's inquisition with the like offence.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY, with MESSRS. CLERK and ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM ROSE . I am a solicitor residing in Victoria-park square—I knew Mrs. Mary Emsley, who lived at 9, Grove-road—she was a client of mine, and had been so for some years prior to her death—she was possessed of considerable house property in that neighbourhood—she collected a great part of her rents herself from weekly tenants—she lived alone, without any servant—I know a person of the name of Walter Emm—he occasionally assisted her in the collection of rents—On Friday, 17th August, Emm called on me and made a communication to me—I did not go with him, but sent him, and appointed to meet him at the house in Grove-road—I met Dillon there—the door of the house was fastened when we got there—we knocked at the front door and there was no admittance to be gained—I then desired the constable to get over the garden wall at the back—he did so, and said the door was open, and I went over the wall and followed him in the same way—we went through the house—we found no person on the ground floor—the door of the parlour was open, and the back window appeared to be a little open—there is a front and back parlour; they open from the one to the other, and form one room—we then went up on to the first floor—the door of the front bedroom on the first floor was open—that was the room used by the deceased as her bedroom—there is a small back room as well with lumber in it—the bed appeared not to have been slept in—we then went up stairs to the second floor—the door of the front room was open, and I there saw the body of Mrs. Emsley, with her head towards the landing, near the doorway—the body was lying so much in the doorway as to prevent the door from closing—you could scarcely enter the room without treading over the body—there was a bundle of papers for papering rooms in front of her, and two pieces of paper under her arm—Dr. Gill was then sent for at my request; he came almost immediately—the deceased remained in the position in which she was lying until the doctor came, at my request, she was not disturbed in any way—when I was there that day I noticed this key (produced)—it is a remarkable one—I saw it in the bedroom of the deceased, on the first floor—that is the room underneath that in which she was found dead—the key was on the table—there was a table in the bed-room next to the window, and I am not sure whether it was not in a basket, I think it was—there was some biscuit in the basket, and I think some other keys, but I noticed that key particularly on account of the bow being remarkable.

Cross-examined by MR. BEST (with MR. PALMER). Q. You have known the prisoner, I believe? A. I don't think I ever saw him till he was in custody; I think that was the first time I ever saw him; to my knowledge I had never seen him before—I think Mrs. Emsley bad a person of the name of Rowland who assisted her in the collection of rents—I never heard of a man of the name of Wright—I am not sure that a person of the name of Wilson, of Ratcliffe, did not collect some rents—he is a tenant of hers—I have no personal knowledge of that—the fastening to the front door was a common lock and a latch-key lock—I looked at the street door and found that the door had been apparently pulled to—it was not fastened inside—there are bolts inside—those were not fastened—there did not appear to have been any

force at all—there was a great quantity of blood about in this room where we found the deceased lying—not all over her; there was a pool of blood; I did not notice particularly as to any splashes about the room—the smell and appearance was so offensive I did not enter the room to examine it minutely.

EDWARD DILLON ( Police-sergeant, K 19). On Friday, 17th August, I was called by a man, of the name of Emm, to No. 9, Grove-road—I went there and found Mr. Rose, Mr. Faith, Mr. Whitaker, and Mr. Biggs, waiting outside the house—I gained admittance at the next door, and passed over the back wall to the back yard of the deceased's house-I found the back door shut, on the latch—the front door was shut on the spring-lock, but not double-locked; it would double-lock—there were no bolts drawn—a person going out and pulling the front door after him would leave it securely latched—I next went into the back parlour, and saw the back window raised up four or five inches—the shutters were closed but not fastened; not bolted—I saw the front parlour window shutters down and the curtains drawn back—I went into the front parlour; the curtains were drawn back and the shutters open; the window was fastened by a catch above—I next proceeded to the first floor front room—I saw a bed there which did not appear to have been slept in recently; the bed was not made-the right hand window-blind in the room was drawn down and the left drawn up-I then went into the back room on the same floor, which was filled with lumber and a quantity of paper hangings—I then went up stairs, and saw the deceased lying dead in the front room—that was on the floor above the front bed-room—the left hand window in the room was raised up a few inches, the right hand window was down—the deceased was lying on her left side, with her head against the door-post; her face was towards the boards, downwards, on the left side—there were a quantity of paper-hangings in that room and a quantity behind the deceased's back; there were several pieces near her head—I noticed the floor of the landing outside, and observed a footprint in the blood—I was not present when the piece of board was cut out—Dr. Gill was then sent for—I remained there till he came—everything was left in the same state as I have described it until Dr. Gill made his appearance—from the direction of the footprint the foot would be coming from the room—I examined all the bolts of the doors and shutters in the house—I discovered no marks whatever of any violent entry having been made—I afterwards made a search of the rooms below, and found a gold mourning ring between the bed-tick and mattress—the ring is in Court; my inspector has it—I found that in the first-floor, in the bed room; it bore the inscription of Samuel Emsley, Esq.—I also saw three half-pence in coppers on a chair—I gave the ring to Inspector Kerrison—I remained on the premises till I was relieved—the garden of the house is surrounded by walls—the gardens of the houses at the back of the houses in Grove-road abut on the garden of the house of the deceased on either side—there is no road between—the houses in Grove-street are at the back of the Grove-road houses—the back door of No. 9 has a glass window in it.

Cross-examined. Q. You went to this room where you found the deceased lying, did you observe whether there was much blood about it? A. A great quantity of blood—there were a great many splashes about the floor and the wall, as if the blood had spurted out from the person who had been struck.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Did you notice the direction in which the blood appeared to have flowed? A. It appeared to have flowed in front of the woman from the position I found her in, and a great quantity splashed behind her.

SAMUEL LAWRENCE GILL . I am a member of the Edinburgh College of Physicians, and a surgeon of London—I was called in to see the deceased—I found her lying at full length on her left side, with the face turned a little more to the left, towards the boards—she was dressed—there was no sign of her having made any preparation for going to bed—the first wound which presented itself to my notice was a large opening in the back of the skull, extending deeply into the brain—I think that was the result of repeated blows—that wound alone was quite sufficient to account for death—there were a great number of minute portions of the skull carried completely within the brain and packed under the other portion of the skull, into the interior of the substance of the brain, and deposited within the upper portion of the skull—the posterior portion of the cerebrum would be immediately exposed to that injury, the posterior portion of the big brain, and of the little brain also, the opening was so large—there were several other wounds which would have caused death besides that one—the wound over the left ear would have caused death—it was a contused wound, and the whole of the temporal bone on that side was driven in; that also being in small fragments—there was also a blow above the other ear, that was a contused wound—there was no wound in the scalp on that side, but there had evidently been a heavy blow on that side—there was also what we should almost term a lacerated wound above the left eyebrow, and another, wound in the left ear, also a lacerated wound—before I saw this hammer (produced) I had formed an opinion as to the character of the instrument with which these blows were inflicted—the wound, which was the result of repeated blows, might have been inflicted with the blunt side of this hammer—I had an opportunity of seeing whether the hammer fitted the wound on the eyebrow; the blade, of the hammer corresponded with the length of that wound—I consider it was. such a wound as might have been inflicted by the thin end of that hammer—I noticed a quantity of blood; there was a pool on the floor which had flowed from the body, from one point, passing away from her into the room from the doorway—from the place where the head was, the room was. inclined—I noticed a mark of blood on the under part of her petticoat, but, of course, external, as the petticoat was drawn upwards over the head—it was a superficial smear—it appeared to me as if something had been wiped on it

Cross-examined. Q. Could you form any opinion from the appearance of the wounds which wound was inflicted first? A. It would be a mere, matter of opinion, but I should rather think that the wound on the temple had been inflicted first; that appeared to have been one blow—the body was slightly decomposed when I saw it—the face was very slightly decomposed—I don't think the incised wound on the eyebrow was as. much decomposed as the opposite side of the face—there were indications of decomposition going on, certainly—the effect of decomposition, under some circumstances, would be to cause a wound to expand, to gape—I don't consider that it was at all distended from decomposition, because it was comparatively dry—in this case the wound would gape slightly, certainly—I forget how long after my first examination this hammer was shown to me; I should think a week, perhaps more—I have not the slightest recollection; it might have been a fortnight; I don't bear it in mind—I did not compare the hammer with the body—I measured the wound over the eyebrow, and probed the depth of it with my finger—I form my opinion as to the instrument which inflicted the wounds from the appearance of the wounds and from being accustomed to see wounds inflicted by all sorts of instruments—a piece of iron, an iron bar, sharp at the end, would, undoubtedly produce

such wounds as these—I should think it possible, certainly, that the wounds at the back of the head might have been done with a larger instrument than this—I considered they could have been done with a hammer—the wound at the back of the head was considerably greater than this part of the hammer; it was some inches in size—I should imagine that whatever instrument was used there would be a considerable quantity of blood on it.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Could large wounds, larger than any single wound, have been inflicted by that hammer by repeated blows? A. By repeated blows—I measured the wound on the eyebrow; it was an inch and a half long—all I say is that this hammer might have inflicted the wounds—I gave it as my opinion when I saw the body that she had been dead, in all probability, three or four days—I saw her on Friday in the middle of the day—what I saw and observed was quite consistent with an attack on Monday, 13th August.

COURT. Q. You say her appearance was consistent with her being wounded on the Monday; that what happened to her might have happened on Monday? A. Quite likely—I could not fix within a day either way—it might have been on Monday evening, or Tuesday morning, or on the Sunday—it would depend on the state of the atmosphere.

ELIZABETH PASHLEY . I reside at 16, Grove-road, immediately opposite No. 9, where Mrs. Emsley used to live—I have lived there twelve years—I last saw her alive on Monday evening, August 13th, between 7 and 8 o'clock, sitting at her first-floor window—she usually went to bed about 10, or even before, I have seen her, but usually about 10—the shutters of her house were always closed by dusk—I never saw them open after dusk—I noticed her house about 12 o'clock on the night of 13th August—the shutters were open—my attention was attracted by it; I thought it remarkable—I observed the house early the next morning, about daybreak; it was not quite light—the shutters were not closed—the blinds were just the same as they were on the Monday—the first floor blind was down—the window even with it was up rather more than half-way—one blind was pulled down and the other blind was rather more than half-way up—there were no blinds on the second floor—one of the windows of the second floor was slightly open—I saw a person on the Wednesday knock at the door three times—I observed other persons knocking, but I do Dot know which days they were—when persons knocked at the door of the deceased she would open the first-floor window, where she usually sat, and look out and speak to them from the window—she would sometimes speak to them from the area, which is grated over—there was no access into the house by the area—she would only let those persons in who were in the habit of going there, or who worked then—if she knew them she would come down or answer them from the window, but she always looked out from the window first

Cross-examined. Q. There was nobody in the house with her? A. No; she never kept any servants in my experience—I do not know how many persons were in the habit of visiting her during the day—she was generally out in the day—only a very few work people went into the house—I can't say how many; not so many as a dozen—she never had any tradespeople—I have seen a paperhanger go in—I have seen Mr. Rowland go in, and Mr. Emm—I do not know Mr. Wilson, or Mr. Wright—I have seen others go in but they would be persons who were bringing things to the house, and I know she knew them.

ELIZABETH FRANCES MUGGERIDGE . I live at 17, Grove-road, nearly opposite the house of the deceased, Mrs. Emsley—On Monday, 13th August, I saw her about 7 o'clock in the evening, sitting at her first-floor bedroom

window—I did not observe her doing anything—I noticed the house again that night between 10 and 11—the parlour shutters were open and one of the curtains was drawn further back than usual, and the first-floor bedroom window was half-way up; the shutters being open at that time was an unusual circumstance—I had noticed it was her habit to close her shutters at dusk, had also observed that when persons called on her she would look out at the window or answer them up the area—on Wednesday morning, about 11 o'clock, I saw a man and woman call at the house—they knocked several times at the door and gained no admittance—I did not observe any one else particularly after that

WILLIAM SMITH . I am in Mr. Linsell's service, a draper in the Mile-end-road—I did not know Mrs. Emsley myself—I remember having to take a message there on Tuesday, the 14th August, about half-past 8 in the morning—I was sent by my master—I knocked at the door for about five minutes, loud, so that anybody must have heard, if there had been anybody in the house—I then went away and returned again in the evening between 8 and 9; I knocked again and failed to gain admittance—I looked through the key hole to see if I could see anybody.

JOHN COOK . I reside at Peckham, and am a builder—On 14th August, a little after 10 in the morning, I called at 9, Grove-road, at the house of Mrs. Emsley, about some paper hangings—I expected to buy some—I had received a note on the 10th, saying that she had some to dispose of—I knocked at the door three times and got no admittance—I then walked away round the square, and about, and came again, knocked and got no admittance.

Cross-examined, Q. Had you known this old lady before? A. About two years—I had not had dealings with her for paper-hangings before this—I am building on her ground and therefore she often came to see me—I think it was the last day in July she was at my house.

EDWIN EMU I am the son of Walter Thomas Emm, a shoemaker, living at Mr. Emsley's brick-fields, Bethnal-green—I knew the deceased—on Monday, 13th August last, I was sent by my father to her house for some brass taps—I did not go that day, I went on the following day and knocked at the door of the house.

RICHARD TANNER . I am a sergeant of the detective police—I know the prisoner; I have only known him since the murder—I was employed to investigate this murder, with Inspector Thornton and Sergeant Thomas—I had seen the prisoner previous to his making a communication to me, about 28th August, as near as I can recollect; it was the latter end of August—he was fetched from his lodgings by Sergeant Thomas, and Mr. Thornton and myself had a consultation with him in reference to the murder of Mrs. Emsley—we sent for him for the purpose of making inquiries—on Saturday, 8th September, about 6 o'clock, he came to my house in Wood-street, Westminster—he did not wear spectacles when he came to me—he said, "I am come to give you some information; I have been to Mr. Thornton's and he is out"—I asked him into my room and he said, "You know, Sergeant Tanner, that since I saw you and Inspector Thornton, I have had my suspicions about the man who committed the murder, and I have been watching him"—I said, "Before you go any farther, Mullins, who is it 1s.; he replied, "Emms"—I believe his name is Emm, but he said "Emms"—he said, "This morning I went to Emsley's brick-field at 5 o'clock, and I remained there watching Emms, pretending to be picking herbs, and between 8 and 9 o'clock I saw Emms come out of his house and go to a ruined

cottage about fifty yards in front of his house; he brought out from then a large parcel, took it indoors, remained about ten minutes, came out again, appeared to be looking about him, and he had a small parcel in his hand about the size of a pint pot; he went to a shed or a lean-to adjoining big own house, went inside, remained about two minutes, came out again with, out the parcel and went indoors"—I said, "What do you think the parcel contained?"—he said, "I can't tell"—I then left my own home with him and went to Mr. Thornton's residence which is close by—he said nothing else before we went to Mr. Thornton's—he said nothing about where the parcel was put, further than what I have stated—he did not then give any information about where the parcel was put—we went to Thornton's—he was not at home—I walked with him then as far as Palace-yard—I asked him if he would have some refreshment and he did; we had a glass of ale—when we came out, on parting he said, "Now don't go without me"—he desired to go that night—I said, "No, I can't go to-night"—I had a motive, Mr. Thornton was not there and he had charge of the case—I think I said, "Mr. Thornton is not at home; I can't go without him"—he then said, "Now don't go without me"—I said, "No, you know I have taken down the substance of your statement, in writing in a book, and no advantage shall be taken of your information; I hope you think we are beyond that"—he said, "Very well"—I said, "I will go with you tomorrow morning; I will send a sergeant for you, where shall I send for you?"—he said, "To 17, Oakum-street, Chelsea"—a reward had been offered at that time—I have got a bill (producing one) similar to those which were posted and placarded about—it was posted all over London; first a reward of 100l. and then of 300l.—Mullins was aware of the reward having been offered—he said on parting, "Don't go without me; if it comes off all right I will take care of you"—that is the substance of what passed between us that night—I went the next morning to Emsley's brick-field with Inspector Thornton, Sergeant Thomas, and the prisoner—we went in a cab—nothing passed with me, I was outside; Thornton and Thomas were inside with him—this plan (produced) appears very correct—there is a shed by the side of Emm's cottage in which ultimately the parcel was found—there is a ruined house shown here; that is about fifty yards from Emm's cottage—it was about midday on Sunday morning when we arrived there—the ruin is a perfect wreck; it is a very old dilapidated cottage, in fact, there is a hole in the wall where any person ean go in—there is a door to the shed by Emm's cottage, but the lower half of it is gone, there is only the top portion complete—it was open—it appears that anybody, at any time, could have got into that shed—at the time we arrived on that morning the shed was open, and there was a slab of stone just against the side of it—that is shown on the plan—this field, which is called Emsley's brick-field, is an open field; persons have no right there, but they can get in very easily—the palings appear to be knocked down—there is room enough for any person to go in—there is a gate also which I found open, but independent of that, there are gaps in the palings which appear to have been knocked down, and any person can get in—we arrived in Bonner's-lane, myself, Thornton, and Thomas were walking down Bonner's-lane, and through a gap in the place we saw Emm and a man standing in conversation—they were at the other end of the field from Emm's house, at the extreme end, I should say quite 200 yards—we told Mullins to remain as it were about here (pointing to the plan), out of the field entirely so as not to be seen—we all three went to Emm; he was called aside, and Mr. Thornton made some communication to him in my presence—he was told

the accusation in substance, that Mullins had made—we did not tell him that Mullins had made it—I then went, by the direction' of Inspector Thornton, to Emm's house and searched it—I spoke to Mrs. Emm—Emm was not there then, he was left with Mr. Thornton—we looked in the shed and at that time found nothing—we then went back to Mr. Thornton to report the result of our mission, and at that period Mullins appeared in the field, within fifty yards of us—I found Thornton and Emm had advanced to the ruined cottage; they were standing in front of it—at the time I saw Mullins in the field I went to him, and on my approach he said, "You have not half searched the place, she (meaning, I suppose, Mm. Emm) had her back to you all the while; come, I will show you where I think it is put"—I said, "No, not now; we don't want Emm to know you are the informant," and in the conversation we walked round between a stack of bricks and another old shed which is in the field—we halted four or five yards in front of the identical shed which he alluded to as where he saw Emm put the parcel, and he said, "There, look now, go and pull down that b—slab and turn up those bricks"—I looked at him and retired with him from the spot—I did not go towards the shed—I came back some twenty yards—I spoke to Sergeant Thomas and desired him to go and pull down the stone, at the same time telling Mullins to go to the Rising Sail and wait for me—Thomas went to the stone and returned to where Thornton, Emm, and I were—Thornton and Emm were still in front of the ruin—I saw Thomas pull the stone on one side, and saw him bring out the parcel—the slab is shown on the plan, we had simply to pull the stone forward and take it out; anyone could have placed it there without going into the shed—the parcel was opened in the presence of Emm—I cannot speak to its condition so well as Thomas; he handled it and undid it—I did not handle it in its original state—I saw it opened and saw what it contained—this is the outer paper; it was tied round the same as it is now, with this piece of tape—it is a piece of tape which might form an apron string or anything of that sort; besides that there was an inner parcel—this is it, it was tied as it is now, with a piece of shoemaker's waxed string—it contained some pieces of newspaper, some blotting paper, one metal table spoon, and three metal tea spoons, and these two lenses or magnifying glasses; two of the spoons are lettered "W. P."—besides these there was a cheque for 10l. on the Bank of London—this is it—that cheque is described in the handbill as a cheque drawn by Pickering and Carrier on the Bank of London, dated August 14th, 1860—those were all the contents of the parcel—I was then directed to fetch Mullins back from the public-house, which I did, leaving Thornton, Thomas, and Emm still in front of the ruined shed—Mullins came back and stood in front of an old waggon that was there—he said, "Have you found anything?"—he appeared delighted, rubbed his hands, and laughed, and said, "Have you found any b—money?"—I said; "Thomas has found something, I cannot tell you what; Emm is very ill"—he appeared to laugh, rubbed his hands and said, "Oh, of course he would be"—I was then told to take him to the station in Arbour-square, which I did—Emm was also taken—he was there charged and Mullins also—he was charged by Inspector Thornton, in my presence, the charge was taken down in writing—the charge sheet is not here—it would be at Scotland-yard now—upon being charged, Mullins said, "Is this the way I am to be served, after giving information?"—I searched him—I found that his shoe was tied with a piece of waxed string—I have it here; it is waxed with cobbler's wax—the string round the parcel is waxed with cobbler's wax—I

also found on him a pocket-book and some spectacles, but nothing material to this case; the spectacles were in his pocket—I afterwards went to 33, Barnsley-street, where he occupied a room—I there found a piece of tape, which 1 produce.

COURT. Q. Has that piece of tape been examined so as to ascertain the number of threads it contains? A. It was examined by several gentlemen on the coroner's jury who were drapers; I have not counted the number of threads in it—Inspector Thornton was originally a draper—the piece of tape at the extreme end of the parcel, I thought corresponded with this piece—they appear to me to be the same tape—I think the short piece at the end of the parcel, and this piece, correspond; they appear to be exactly the same kind of tape.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. I believe you also produce a piece of wax that you found on the chimney piece in the prisoner's room? A. Thomas found that in my presence—I saw him take it from the chimney-piece—I was also with Mr. Thornton when he found the hammer.

Cross-examined, Q. If understand you rightly, you had been in communication with the prisoner as early as 28th August? A. I think about that time—a reward had been offered then; 300l.—the whole of the reward had been offered then—it was offered on the 24th.

COURT. Q. The 300l. had been offered before you had any communication with the prisoner? A. Yes.

MR. BEST. Q. You have told us that you left him outside the field while you went to search the shed. A. Yes; I supposed him during that time to be where I had directed him to wait, outside the field—when I afterward? saw him coming towards the shed, he was about fifty or sixty yards from it; he could not from where he was, have seen what we had done inside the shed—he could see us enter the shed—we remained there two minutes probably, then he came up to us—he did not first call our attention to the bricks which were lying about—he did not mention anything about searching some bricks previous to telling us about the slab—I am sure he did not, or about searching some wood—he afterwards said "Turn up those bricks"—that was before we had found the parcel—Emm is by trade a shoemaker—I found his tools in his house; his daughter was at work—I examined his tools; I believe a shoemaker's hammer was amongst them; I am not quite sure—I believe shoemakers use a hammer in their trade—Sergeant Thomas searched that portion of the house.

WILLIAM THOMAS . I am a sergeant of the detective police—On Sunday morning, 9th September, in consequence of instructions from Inspector Thornton, I went to 17, Oakum-street, Chelsea, between 10 and 11 in the day; I found the prisoner there—he came out of the house; I was just behind him—I took a turn and met him, and beckoned to him when he saw me, and he followed me into the Brompton-road—he spoke first to me, he said "Thomas, I took you to be Tanner"—he said "You know that I am very elever in these matters, I have been working hard, day and night to discover the murderer of Mrs. Emsley, and I have found him out"—I said, "Who do you suspect?"—he said, "The man Emm, who gave evidence on the coroner's inquest; he was suspected; no one had better opportunity, as he was in the habit of taking small sums of money, and would be admitted by Mrs. Emsley at any time"—I said, "Mullins, would she admit you V—he said, "Oh, no, she would answer me from the window, and up the area"—he said nothing more at that time—I had seen him before and spoken to him before—I had not know him for any number of years—I went with him to Scotland-yard, and then went

with him, Inspector Thornton, and Tanner, to Bethnal-green—as we were going along in the cab, the prisoner and Thornton were in conversation, and after they had stopped, I said, "Mullins, what sort of a parcel did you see Emm place in the shed?"—he jumped up, put his hand into his coat pocket, and withdrew a handkerchief, and rolled it up to about the same size as the parcel, and said, "That is about the size. "

COURT. Q. And was that the size? A. Yes; I afterwards found that to be the size.

MR. CLERK. Q. Was he telling Thornton in the cab what he had seen Emm do? A. Thornton and the prisoner were in conversation, but I did not bear all they said—When we got to the brick-field we went into the brick-field—I went to the shed that had been spoken of, adjoining the house—I looked into the shed, but did not disturb anything; I merely looked into it—after that I went into the house and searched there; I saw some papers relating to some property between the deceased and Emm—I then returned to Inspector Thornton, and at that time Mullins made his appearance in the field—I had taken him up Bonner's-lane, out of sight of Emm's place altogether, and said, "Mullins, remain here till we send for you"—that was about 150 yards from the place where I next saw him—he had some conversation with Tanner in the field—I did not hear what passed—Tanner then spoke to me, and from what he said I went again to the shed, and removed a flagstone that was just inside the door, and there I found a parcel, tied round with tape—it was behind the stone, between the stone and the wall—at the bottom there were some bricks and rubbish—the stone was buried about three or four inches outside and inside—the parcel was on the top of the bricks, between the wall and the stone—the bricks were not visible from outside, in the field, until I had removed the stone, not what was behind the stone, not in the middle, where the parcel was—the stone was two inches from the wall at the bottom part—it was standing nearly against the wall, it leant towards the wall—the brick rubbish was between the bottom of the stone and the wall—the brick rubbish was not visible when I was outside in the field—when I took the parcel I brought it to where Thornton was standing in the field—I spoked to Emm first, before I untied the parcel—Mullins was not near enough to hear what was said—I opened the parcel in Tanner's presence—it contained some spoons, a cheque for 10l. and two lenses—I afterwards went to 33, Barnsley-street, I went to the back room on the ground floor in that house—I had been in that room before—the prisoner lived there; I had seen him there—I there found a small bit of shoemaker's wax and a small bit of twine, together on the mantel-piece—I produce them—the street door of the house opens by a small bit of twine; anybody can open it from the outside—the door of the prisoner's room was locked—I had not the key with me; I broke it open—I afterwards went to the house, 17, Oakum-street, from which I had seen the prisoner come—a person named Kelly is the landlady of that house—I went into a back room there where I found the prisoner's wife, and in that room I found a spoon, which I produce, it has on the back of it the letters W. P.

Cross-examined. Q. That is the ordinary trade mark, is it not? A. I believe so—I believe it is the maker's mark—the spoons are ordinary sort of German metal spoons, generally in use—there is a slight difference between the appearance of the spoon found at the prisoner's house, and the spoons found in the parcel—I should say the one found in the house was worn more than those found in the parcel—two of those in the parcel are alike, and one of those in the parcel and the one found in the house are just the same pattern—when I come to look at the bowls they are a different

shape (examining them)—three are alike; the one found in the house is similar to this—they are German silver—I first went to the house in Barnsley-street, on Tuesday, 28th August—it is a very small backroom where the prisoner lived, not very clean—I saw no one there besides himself—there was a person living up stairs, an invalid, whose name I do not know—there was no one down stairs—I do not know how many rooms there are upstairs, there are three down—the prisoner occupied one, no one occupied the others—that was the only room occupied down stairs.

DR. GILL (re-examined). I have examined the ends of the two pieces of tape produced—I have carefully counted the number of strands in them—Tanner was present—he counted them before me, not letting me know the number he counted; there are thirty-three strands in each.

COURT. Q. So that those two pieces are pieces of the same sort of tape? A. They are in my opinion—that is all I can say.

MR. BEST. Q. You are not engaged in the manufacture of tape, I suppose? A. No; I have been in the habit of examining all fabrics, I examine all things that I feel an interest in, under the microscope—I am in the habit of examining cotton, silk, or anything, for my own private investigation.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. It is a very beautiful investigation sometimes, is it not, to examine fabrics? A. It is exceedingly beautiful.

STEPHEN THORNTON . I am an inspector of the detective police—On Saturday, 8th September, the prisoner called at my house—on the following morning I went with Tanner, Thomas, and the prisoner, to Bethnal-green—as we went along, the prisoner said he had been watching Emm, who had been living in Mr. Emsley's brick-field, Bethnal-green, for some time, and on Saturday, about half-past 8 in the morning, he saw him come out of his house, go to a ruin or shed, about fifty yards from his house, bring out a parcel, and, looking about him, go into his own house, that he was there a few minutes, then came out with a smaller parcel, and went to a shed or lean-to adjoining his own house, and was there about a minute, and then came out without the parcel—he said the parcel that he fetched from his own house was a small parcel about the size of a pint pot—I went to that brick-field—directions were given to Thomas to search in the shed and the house—the parcel was afterwards brought to me—Emm was not in good health at that time; he seemed to be labouring from illness, and suffering—I-had given instructions to Mullins as to where he was to remain—I told him to remain outside the brick-field, and if we wanted him we would send for him—I saw him in the brick-field at the extreme or northeast end of the brick-field shortly after—some ten minutes afterwards he came up to within twenty-five yards of where I was standing, and I sent Tanner to take him away—I saw the parcel opened, and the contents have been produced here—I afterwards went to the house in Barnsley-street, and found this plasterer's hammer, which has been produced—I found it lying with other tools, I believe, on the floor in the room.

Cross-examined. Q. The hammer was quite open, I believe, not concealed? A. It was lying on the floor—there was no concealment about it—I examined it directly, and found it nearly in the same state as it is now—there was some plaster on it—it was not so clean as it is now—it appeared to me as if it had been used—I have been engaged in giving directions about this case the whole time, but part of the time I have been on leave—I have not received any communication that a person was seen to come out of the deceased's house on the Tuesday morning—in consequence of something I have made inquiries about one or two persons besides Mullins, previous to his being apprehended.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Since his apprehension, have you made inquiry about any other person? A. No; I have not.

JOHN JOSHUA CARRIER . I am one of the firm of Pickering and Co. 4, Suffolk-street, Cambridge-road—I knew the deceased Mrs. Emsley—I last saw her alive on Monday, 13th August last—I drew this cheque, and paid it to her—I gave it to her—it is dated 14th August; it should have been the 13th—it is an error in the date—it is a mistake I made in drawing it.

COURT. Q. Are you quite sure you drew it on the 13th? A. Quite sure, and gave it her myself on the same morning.

Cross-examined. Q. What time did you give it her? A. About 12 o'clock; it might have been a little before 12.

COURT. Q. How long had you been a tenant of Mrs. Emsley's? A. About eighteen years, the old and new firm together—I am not aware that she kept a banker—I do not know anything about that; I did not know that she did—I paid her on other occasions, sometimes by cheque, and sometimes money; more frequently by cheque—I do not know what became of the cheques after she had them—we never crossed the cheques; it was always an open cheque that I gave her—I cannot say now whether in looking over our accounts I ever ascertained when the cheques came into our bankers as paid—I know nothing about it.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. This cheque has never been through your bankers; it has never been paid? A. Never.

JOSEPH BIGGS . I live at Connaught-row, Bethnal-green. I was well acquainted with Mrs. Mary Emsley during the last four years, I think this is the fourth summer—I knew her husband before, from about the year 1820—I was in the habit of calling upon her in general once a week, since she lived in Grove-road—I used to call there on Sunday evening mostly—I called there on Sunday, 12th August, the day before this calamitous affair—I was to have gone there on the Tuesday to see Mr. Cook, he being an acquaintance of mine—I did not go at the time appointed; instead of going at 11, it was about half-past 1—I could not get in—I have seen some plate which the deceased deposited with me; I did not see it from the time of her depositing it with me, until the time she wanted to take something out of it, I had not any farther knowledge of it—I kept it secured as she tied it up—she took back some of that; a few articles to sell, such as a silver snuff-box, a lady's pencil-case, and a silver watch, and gold pins with coloured stones—she took away a silver pencil-case with her about four months ago, I think, somewhere early in the summer; I cannot call to mind the time exactly; it was about four months, it might have been more or less—I did not see that pencil-case afterwards until I saw it at the police court, or rather until Tanner showed it to me—I believe that this (produced) was the pencil-case which she took away with her, and for this reason; when she took it out of the parcel, (indeed I did not know it was there before,) she said "Here is a pencil-case, seeming to say, "Would you like to have it?"—that was how I understood her—I took hold of it and said, "Oh, it is an old-fashioned concern"—the point was thin, very much bent, more so than it is now—that has been put in order—I said I did not think I should—"I don't think it is of much use, it appears to be very much broke"—she said, "I don't suppose it is;" and consequently took it back again with her—I observed the head of the pencil-case at the time; it was a round head like this; I believe this to be the very pencil-case—I saw some lenses of a telescope in her possession, something like four weeks before her decease, when she gave them to me to look at, saying, "Here are two

glasses, which do you think magnifies the most?" and so on—these appear to me to be the very two glasses; I remember one was much better than the other—I believe they are the same.

Cross-examined. Q. Then this pencil-case is not in the same state as when it left you? A. It is not—it looked much older then—I believe it is the same—at the time it was shown to me, I was not aware that any one was charged with the murder—they brought it to me and said "Do you know anything of this?"—I knew nothing at all about its being sold, or bought, or the least thing, not a word—of course I said, "Yes"—there is nothing I can positively swear to about it, any more than that I believe it to be the very same—the old lady was fond of selling her articles that she took away with her—I believe she was fond of money, and was in the habit of converting the things into money—these two lenses are two simple glasses—I believe them to be the two; of course I could not say there are not two others like them—I never to my knowledge saw any like them before—I know she had two like these—I am not accustomed to look at lenses.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. You believe the pencil and the lenses to have belonged to this old lady? A. I believe they did; conscientiously.

ELIZABETH GOETZ . I am the wife of Joseph Goetz, of 18, Bamsley-street, Bethnal-green—I was the niece of Mrs. Emsley—I know the prisoner—I know that he was in the habit of working at times for my aunt—I remember hearing of the murder of my aunt on the Friday—I had seen her on the Monday before that at my house; she dined with me on that day—she left me at a quarter to 2 o'clock—while she was there the prisoner came there for some keys; he came first for a box lock—my aunt gave him some keys—he came twice or three times that day—he asked for keys each time—he came and said it was a key wanted, not a box; I gave him four or five keys, and he came back with several which would not do, and he had a few more—I recognize this key, it is one that was amongst the keys that I gave to Mullins—that was on the Monday that my aunt was murdered—I next saw that key at my aunt's house on the Sunday following—that was after the murder—I believe these to be the same tea-spoons that I have seen my aunt use—I have noticed one of them bent in the handle; this one (pointing it out)—I noticed that the last time that I tea'd in that house—I saw it about four weeks before the murder—I believe these spoons to have belonged to my aunt—I know a pencil-case that she had; it is before me; I recognize it—it appears to be a pencil-case that she used at my house several times—there is nothing particular about it that I had noticed before—I think I had seen it a few weeks before 13th August, at my house—my aunt was accustomed to visit me; she never came into Bamsley-street without coming—I am aware that there were no tea-spoons left in her house after the murder—I could not find a tea-spoon to use for my breakfast, not one of any description.

Cross-examined. Q. When did you examine the house? A. I was called in on Friday, and on Saturday morning I had breakfast there, and I could not find a tea-spoon—that was the first time I looked for spoons—I did not find any—I looked for them in a table-drawer in the kitchen, and on the dresser; they were usually kept amongst the tea-things in the kitchen—I have seen three or four spoons there at a time—I have seen more than those, but not in that house; I have seen silver spoons, but not in that house—I do not know how long the old lady was in the habit of using the pencil-case; I have seen it on and off, for some time—I have seen it a long time, perhaps four years, before—she was not in the habit of using it constantly

but at different times I have seen it—I have known the prisoner about six or seven months at the outside, to the best of my recollection—I have known him as being, generally speaking, employed by my aunt—he was at work for her during that period, when there was any work to do—he was the person she employed usually to carry out her plastering jobs, and so on—since the last man died Mullins generally did the work—she had a large number of houses, and consequently there was a great deal of work to be done, constant work—when she has been staying at my house, he has called there to see her, and received his orders from her, frequently—by her orders I told him to call on that very Monday for the lock to put on a door—I gave him a box-lock first—my aunt left my house that day about a quarter to 2 o'clock—Mullins had been there from 10 to 12 o'clock, during that time—I can't say exactly at what time—he did not come back again about 2 o'clock—I am quite positive he never came to the house after my aunt left; not till Wednesday—he left, and went away to get some keys for another door—he left with my aunt—that was the third time of his leaving—he had been to and fro with keys, fitting to other doors—my aunt had other business to do, and he went away with the keys by himself; and after the third time he went away with my aunt from the door, down to the house where he lived.

ELIZABETH GEORGE . I live at 8, Cutworth-street, Bethnal-green—I knew the deceased Mrs. Emsley—I had attended her for 18 months as a charwoman—she had no other attendant than me, that I know of—I was in the habit of going to the house on Saturdays—she slept in the one-pair front room—when any one called on her, her habit was to look out from the area, or to look out of the window if it was dusk, before she answered them—that was what she did when I was there—I was last there before the murder on the Saturday, as Mrs. Emsley was supposed to be murdered on the Monday—on the Saturday before that she had received a lot of paperhangings—they were put up stairs in the two-pair front and back rooms—Mullins carried them up; no one else—I had seen him there before several times—I knew that he did work for Mrs. Emsley, aud he was in the habit of coming on a Saturday to be paid for the work he had done—I saw him there on the Saturday before the murder was supposed to be committed—he was then paid about 6s. by the deceased—she took the money from her pocket—she gave me the money to examine it, to take to the door to see if there were any sovereigns in it—it was about dusk, 7 o'clock—she said it was to look if there were any sovereigns in it—Mullins was not near enough to hear that remark of hers—there were no sovereigns—he left at 7 o'clock—I remained till past 10 o'clock, my usual time—I have seen three tea-spoons—these are exactly like them, but I cannot swear they are the same—they are exactly the same sort—there were but three kept in the kitchen—I last saw them on the Saturday—when I left at 10 o'clock I left them there.

Cross-examined. Q. You attended her as charwoman weekly? A. Yes; she employed no other servant—she was an old lady, very penurious in her habits—she was never in the habit of carrying any sovereigns in her pocket, to my knowledge—she did not live in a very humble way—it was a very respectable house, a large house—her mode of living was humble, not extravagant—I have known her 17 years, when she was first married to Mr. Emsley—during that time I never saw her with much money in her pocket—some times I saw a couple of bags on the mantel-piece, about as large as my fist, but I never saw them untied—I saw them when I went, but they were not there again—I did not see any bags on the mantel-piece on this Saturday

evening—I partly cleaned that room on the Saturday—an old gentleman came on the Saturday of the name of Green—he lived up at the Park—there was also a short man came to look at the paper—I believe that to be Mr. Wright, in the Mile-end-road—I did not know him at the time—a man also came about 12 o'clock with a bundle of paperhangings—she had a great many paperhangings—she was not in the habit, till latterly, of selling them, not till a week or two before her death—a week or two before she died she had several persons call upon her about paperhangings—I never saw but this Mr. Wright.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Did Wright go away while you were there? A. Yes—Mr. Green is 50 or 60 years old—I do not know whether the other person bought some—Mrs. Emsley took him up stairs—I do not know whether he bought any—he passed out—he went away while I was there—this was on the Saturday—the old lady used to carry a small basket in collecting her rents, and put the money into a leather bag.

COURT. Q. Had she any banker? A. Yes; she went to the bank—I heard say she did bank; she banked with the Bank of England.

MR. BEST. Q. Did you ever go to the Bank of England for her? A. No; when the gentleman called about the paperhangings the old lady, as he left, seemed to say that he was to call another time—I did not distinctly hear—I only passed on the stairs.

WALTER THOMAS EMM . I am a shoemaker by trade—I reside at a little cottage in Emsley's brick-field, Globe-town, Bethnal-green—I know the prisoner—I have know him from, I think, about the beginning of last February—he has visited at my house—he has had meals there—he has had tea three or four times at the house in the brick-field, and I think he has had meat and bread too there, after dinner when he has called in—I think it was about four weeks before 13th August, the day of the murder, that he had been at my cottage, but I saw him in Barnsley-street two days in that week—I had to fetch him on the Thursday before the 13th August for the old lady, to move a slab-stone in one of the houses in Barnsley-street, in the back yard—I saw him on the Friday before the murder, in the afternoon—I was frequently in the habit of seeing him—he worked for me—he worked for Mrs. Emsley, and I had to see him—I was employed by Mrs. Emsley to collect her rents, and I took jobs from her—I remember Thornton, and Thomas, and Tanner coming to me at the brick-field—that was on Sunday, 9th September, I think—I was then taken in custody—I did not know what the charge was—I was charged with having a parcel there belonging to Mrs. Emsley.

Q. We have heard that a parcel was found by Serjeaut Thomas, behind a slab in an out-house of your cottage; did you put it there? A. No; I had not anything whatever to do with that parcel—I had never seen that parcel before it was produced in my presence by Thomas—I was aware that a reward had been offered—I saw the old lady on the afternoon of Monday, 13th August, about 2 o'clock, at the end of Barnsley-street—that was the last time I saw her alive—after I left Mrs. Emsley on Monday, 13th August, I went into one of the houses to see a plumber, and from there I went home—I got home about half-past 3—I then stopped at home till 6 o'clock, or a little after 6; then I went with Mr. Rowland to Bethnal-green workhouse—I stopped there for some time, till Rowland, and my wife, and a Mrs. Buckle came out—I then went on to the field again with them—I wanted Rowland to drive me to Stratford—I was on the field some length of time—I could not catch the pony to get it harnessed; that took me some time—then I went to Mr. Rumble, the owner of the pony, to see if he would come and

catch it, and when I came back again Rowland and my wife, and some one else, had caught the pony—I started about 9 o'clock to go to Bromley and Stratford—it might be two or three minutes past 9, I am not exactly confident what time exactly it was—I think I got home to Globe-town about half-past 11 o'clock—my wife went with me to Stratford, and a woman of the name of Buckle; and Rumble, the owner of the pony, drove me there—we were the four that went—I have a toll-ticket that I had on that day; this is it (produced)—the date is the 13th of the 8th month.

Q. On the solemn oath that you have taken to tell the truth, had you anything to do with the murder of this old lady? A. No I had not—I remember the day I was taken into custody, when the parcel was found—on the previous day, Saturday, I think it was about half-past 9 when I got up—I was not well that day, or I should have been up before—I went out of the cottage that day, I think, about a quarter or twenty minutes past 10—I had not left the cottage before that at all—ray daughter was in the cottage that morning—she works for me—she binds, and works on the seat—my wife was in the cottage that morning—I know a shed about 40 or 50 yards from my cottage—I did not go there that morning—I did not put any parcel there—I did not go into the shed that morning by the side of my cottage—I only went to the shed on the right side—that is a-water-closet—I went there—I returned in two or three minutes—I then remained in the house working till my dinner was ready—I was not outside any more—I collected rents for the old lady, at Stratford—that was my business that night—I went there by Mrs. Emsley's orders at 2 o'clock that day when I saw her, because I did not send my boy on Saturday—it was one house I went to, to receive 1l.—I did not receive the 1l.—I went for that purpose—I did not call at Mrs. Emsley's house after that till the following Wednesday, 15th August—I called for her to go with me to Stratford—I found no admittance to the house—afterwards, in consequence of what I had heard, I acquainted Mr. Rose, at his private house, at 8 o'clock on the following Friday morning, that I could not obtain admission to the house.

Cross-examined. Q. How often did you go on the Wednesday to this house? A. On Wednesday, the 15th, I went in the afternoon, and then, as I came home from Stratford, at half-past 9 in the evening—I knocked in the afternoon; there was no answer—I knocked again at night at half-past 9—I did not stop there, because it was raining—I sent my wife on the Thursday morning—I went on Thursday evening myself—I knocked again; there was no answer—Mr. Whitaker, a relative of Mrs. Emsley's, lives close by there, across in the Bow-road—I can't say that I thought there was something the matter with the old lady; when I knocked twice on the Wednesday—on the Thursday night I should say I did—I did not go and tell any one then that I could not get in—I spoke to the next-door neighbour, at No. 8, who came home while I was standing there—I said, "Have you seen Mrs. Emsley to-day?"—he said, "No, I have been out all day"—he looked at my wife and said, "Why, you were here this morning"—my wife had told me she had knocked in the morning—I said, "I have been knocking now for some time; it is very strange; I was knocking here at half-past 9 last night"—he said, "Oh! then she came home late"—with that I turned to my wife and said, "Well, we had better let this be; we will call one of the youngsters up in the morning, and send them to the house, and see whether we find the house in the same position as it is now; if we find the house in the same position then I will let all that I know who know Mrs. Emsley know of it"—for that reason I called the girl up at 6 o'clock, and sent her to the house—she came home

again to me, and I got my breakfast, and then I called on Mr. Rose, and told him all that had gone on—I then recollected that the boy could not get admittance on the Tuesday, and I told Mr. Rose of it—from there I sent one of the children to Mr. Biggs, and I went to Brook-street, Ratcliff, to a Mr. Churchley, thinking he might have seen Mrs. Emsley—I did not know that the old lady was subject to fits, and that she had a swimming in the head about three or four weeks previous to her being murdered—I don't think I have said that I thought she was in a fit when I called on the Wednesday—I am sure I did not say so—I could not have said such a thing as that—if I had thought that, I could have got a ladder and got into the house—I did not allege, as a reason for not telling her relatives, that I thought she was in a fit—I am sure of that—I was in the habit of going sometimes three times a week to Stratford to collect those rents, Monday, Wednesday, and Saturday—I used to take the old lady the rents as soon as I got back—I never went on a Wednesday but what I did receive some rents—on Mondays and Saturdays I did not have to call at her house—I dare say that this was the only occasion within the last month or so that I went down in a vehicle to collect these rents, but I have often been to Stratford in a vehicle—I don't know that I received tickets from the turnpike-keeper always—sometimes the driver of the cart did—it has not always been the same that drove me—when I have received them I have not taken any notice whether I have kept them, for I did not think they would be of any use to me—I found this one in my pocket—I did not think it would be any use to me—I found it in my waistcoat pocket—you are obliged to have them, because you go through two or three bars, and are obliged to sing out the number—I can't say whether I wore that waistcoat from that time up to the time I found the ticket; sometimes I put on one and sometimes another—I have got, perhaps, half-a-dozen waistcoats or more—I put on one, a thick waistcoat suitable for a chilly night, and a thin oue if it is warm—I asked the carman if he had this ticket and I felt in my pockets to see if I had got it, and I found it in one of my pockets—I can't say when—it was after my apprehension that I found it; after I was locked up—this was not the first time I have ever said anything about this ticket—I took it, I think, the first week after I was liberated—I took it to Mr. Wontner—Mr. Wontner told me to take care of it—I did not produce it before the magistrate; it was never asked for—I had it there ready if asked for—Mr. Wontner had it, and he gave it me back again, and told me to take care of it—Rowland was the name of one of the persons with me that evening—he was with me up to about 9 o'clock, but Rumble, Buckle, and my wife were the parties that went with me to Stratford—I cannot tell you when I first saw Rowland after that, for I often saw him—I saw him shortly after I was released, but he told the officers, and told Mr. Young, the same day I was locked up, before I was released, that Rumble and Buckle were with me—he knew it the day before I was discharged—it was not told in my presence—I was locked up when Rowland had got Rumble and Buckle to prove that I was there—they had not been examined then—I was not well when I saw Mullins on the Friday previous to the murder—that was a month before I was taken—I had been on and off in an ill state, the whole of that time—I had not been lying in bed till half-past 9 each morning from the time I saw Mullins first till I was taken, but in between I had—I have not been up as early as 5 o'clock—I am confident of that—I got up as early as 8 o'clock within a day or two of my being taken in custody, not earlier than 8 I am quite sure; never on any occasion that I now think of, I don't think I have been up before 8, I know that

I have not; it is above thinking, I know I was not up before 8—there was nothing for me to look after on the field; for that reason I should not have to get up—I carry on the trade of a shoemaker.

MARY ANN BUCKLE . I live at Holly-bush-gardens, Bethnal-green-road—I remember going with Emm on a Monday down to Stratford—I had been at the workhouse that day with Mrs. Emm—Mrs. Emm and I went first—Mr. Rowland came while we were there—I do not know exactly what day of the month it was; it was the 13th August I suppose; the day it was expected that the old lady was murdered—it was, as near as I can say, about half-past 6 o'clock that day, that I saw Rowland—Walter Emm was waiting outside the Union when we came out—I saw him there—I afterwards went down in a cart to Stratford with Emm and his wife—Rumble drove us—when we got back to Mr. English's it was nearly half-past 11—he lives in Park-street, Bethnal-green—Emm was with us all that time—we stopped at Mr. English's about five minutes.

Cross-examined. Q. When were you first asked, and by whom, about this evening that you went to Stratford with Emm? A. At Arbour-square; last Tuesday, week I think—I had not been asked before—I recollected going down to Stratford on that particular day, because they said it was 13th August that the old lady was murdered—I did not hear, I think, before the Sunday that the old lady was murdered—I heard that Emm was taken in custody and charged with the murder—I knew that he was out with us that evening—I did not tell anybody so, his wife was with us at the same time—I did not hear of his being taken till the Monday morning as he was taken on the Sunday—I then went to Mrs. Emm and she was gone out—I saw her on the Monday night—I went to her house and saw him—I believe I spoke first—I can hardly recollect the words I said to him—I said. "Mr. Emm, I heard you were taken up for Mrs. Emsley"—he said, "Yes;" he was out on bail—he said, "Do you remember Monday, 13th August, I was with you at Stratford?"—I did not say anything about it—I have been at Stratford since, but never before—I went on the Tuesday after this, along with Mrs. Emm—Mr. Rowland was not with me either time—he was not with me on the Monday, only when he was in with us at the workhouse—I, Mr. and Mrs. Emm, and Mr. Rumble went to Stratford—on the Tuesday I, and Mr. and Mrs. Emm, and Mr. Rowland went, not Mr. Rumble; I think it was Mr. Rowland—I am quite sure it was Rowland—we walked down there on the Tuesday; we did not go in any vehicle.

COURT. Q. Who was with you on Monday? A. Mr. and Mrs. Emm, myself and Mr. Rumble—we started to go down there at ten minutes past 9 when we were at the end of White-horse-lane, when we got to the toll, and it was about half-past 11 when we were back in at Mr. English's—we all came back together, and Mr. and Mrs. Emm and his eldest daughter went with me to my place, and Mr. Rumble went home.

MR. CLARK. Q. Had you gone down to see about a house? A. Yes, to collect some rents; and we went to see a house that was there to let—there were two at the time, and the lady shewed us one house, and we said we did not like the house; we thought the other one was the best—I walked down on the Tuesday to see the house again, and paid a deposit on it on the Monday night.

THOMAS RUMBLE . I live at Digby-street, Grove-lane, Bethnal-green, and a carman—I know Emm well—I keep my horse in his field—I remember Monday night, 13th August—I went out with him that night—the little boy came round to me first—I did not go round to his place; the

little boy came round to me and said he could not catch the pony, and his father could not, and his father came round—I sent my little boy round with the father and they caught the pony—it was about 8 o'clock when he came round to me—about 9 o'clock, when the pony was caught, it was put in the cart opposite my place, and Mr. and Mrs. Emm, and Mrs. Buckle, and I got into the cart—I drove them from there to Bromley—Mr. and Mrs. Emm got out of the cart at Bromley, and Mrs. Buckle and I sat in the cart—after that we went on to Stratford—we got back, not to Mr. Emm's house, but to the beershop just at the top of the street, about half-past 11.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you remember Emm being taken up by the police? A. Yes, on the Sunday—I heard of it on the Sunday, because I was in the field in the afternoon—I can't say when my attention was first called to the day upon which I drove him and his wife down to Stratford—it was on the day when Mr. Emm was taken in the field; that is all I know; I don't know the day—I speak with certainty as to the day I went down to Stratford; it was on the 13th.

COURT. Q. How do you know that; have you any book in which you entered any charge against him, or anything of that sort? A. No; I am confident it was Monday.

MR. BEST. Q. Might it have been the Monday before? A. No, it was Monday the 13th—I know it by the toll-ticket—I took the toll-ticket, and I believe I passed it into Mr. Emm's hands—I cannot say that I have sees it since—I saw the date on the toll-ticket—I know that was the very day I went through the gate—I always get a ticket when I go through the gate—I have been through a good many times before and since; I always had tickets—I have got one in my pocket now but I do not know the date of it—I can't say who first spoke to me about that particular day after Emm was taken in custody—Mr. Tanner and Thomas came to let me know about it—I can't say the day of the month they came to me; it was a very few days after Emm was taken; I can't say what day—they both came together—I can't say which spoke to me first—I can't say whether they did or not speak to me before I said anything to them—I believe they said to me,"Do you remember the day you drove Emm down to Stratford?"—they said, "Do you remember driving Emm down on Monday, 13th August last?"—it was not from what they said that I remembered the day; because the toll-ticket, as I told you before, told me the day of the month; I remember the night very well—when the man gave the toll-ticket to me I passed it to Emm, and I saw the number of it then—that was the first time I saw the date, and I did not take any notice of it till Tanner and Thomas came to me—they did not put it to me as Monday, August 13th; I can't say whether I or they said it.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Have you any other reason for remembering the night than what you have told us? A. No—I first heard of the murder on the Friday, I believe—I believe it was supposed to have been committed on Monday, the 13th—I have driven Mrs. Buckle down to Stratford before—I drove her in company with Mr. and Mrs. Emm on that night, 13th August—I never drove her down to Stratford before that, to my knowledge—that was the first night I ever drove her down.

ANN EMM . I am the wife of Walter Thomas Emm—I remember my husband being taken into custody on the Sunday—he got up on the morning of the Saturday before that, about half-past 9—he was very ill on Friday—I am quite sure he did not get up till half-past 9—he only went out of the cottage to the water-closet and in again, and I was at the door when he went outside—that was on the Saturday morning—my husband could not have

gone out to the shed by the side of our house, or have gone to the ruin, between 8 and 9 o'clock, without my knowing it, and I am sure he did not—I remember Monday, 13th August—I remember going to Stratford—I was at my father's, at the Union, before I went down to Stratford—Mrs. Buckle went with me—Mr. Rowland and my husbaud came shortly afterwards—it was pretty well 7 o'clock in the afternoon when they came to me—Mr. Rumble went down to Stratford—from 7 o'clock that afternoon till I returned from Stratford, I was with my husband—I went to Stratford about 9 at night—Mrs. Buckle, Mr. Rumble, and my husband went with me—Rowland did not go with us—he left us when we got into the cart—I am quite sure this was Monday, 13th August

Cross-Examined. Q. When did you first remember that was the day you went to Stratford? A. I knew it was on the 13th we went to Stratford, because of going to get some rent for the old lady—I used to go to Bromley getting rents of little houses there, and then accompany my husband to Stratford—I was in the habit of going on other days—I remember this particular Monday the 13th, because it was the day I went to see my father before I went—I went to see him several times, but I did not go to Stratford the same day, afterwards: that I am sure of—it was the Monday, as we found Mrs. Emsley was dead on the following Friday—it was before, not after my husband was taken in custody, that it came to my recollection; of course I was aware it was the 13th that I went—I know we all four went together to Stratford on that day—I should have known it was that particular Monday, if my husband had not been apprehended, because we rode there in a cart on the Monday—I have thought of it a good many times since—my husband is naturally a very ailing man; he often gets up late—he was very seldom out of the place unless I knew where he was going, or what for—I usually get up first—I am generally up as soon as he is—I generally know where he goes to when he goes out of the house; he tells me if he is going anywhere particular—he never goes away without saying where he is going.

SUSANNAH EMM . I am the daughter of Walter Emm—I live with him in the cottage in the brick-field—I remember the Monday morning on which the police came to our house, and took my father into custody—my father had been in a very bad state of health the day before—he had his breakfast in bed—I give it to him at about a quarter to 9—he was then in bed—I assist him in his business—I work by the window against the shed—there are five windows to the cottage, two down stairs and three up—if a person goes from the door to the shed, they must pass the window where I was sitting at work—after I gave my father his breakfast at a quarter to 9, I was sitting at work at the window all the day, barring when I got up to my meals—my father did not go by the window to that shed while I was at work there—he could not have gone by without my seeing him—I could also see from the window the ruined cottage in the field—nobody went there from our cottage that morning—I was at work in the cottage all the day, except the time I was at my meals—I know the prisoner by sight—he has had meals at our house sometimes—in the course of that Saturday morning on which my father was in bed I saw Mullins in the brick-field—that was about half-past 2 in the afternoon—he was at the back of the school wall, right straight across the field from the window—the school is right at the opposite end of the field to our cottage—I see the cottage here (referring to the plan)—it was somewhere about here that I saw the prisoner at half-past 2—this is the window where I was sitting—when I saw the

prisoner in the brick-field about half-past 2, he was walking along, looking down on the ground as if he was looking for something.

Cross-examined. Q. How far off was he? A. He was three parts across the field—shoemaking is the work I follow at this window—I can look out of the window and make shoes as well; because I am not looking at the shoes perhaps every minute in the day—I look out of the window very often—I always look about the field—anybody could go to the shed without my seeing them, but not to the ruin—I do not always have my eyes fixed on the shed; on the ruin I do, but not on the shed—I look at the ruin always, because it is right level with the window—I went to work that morning before I gave my father his breakfast; and I sat at the window at work all day afterwards—I was there the day before, Friday, and the day before that—I worked all the week—I always work at the window.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. The shed where you heard of the parcel being found, is on the left of your window? A. Yes; therefore a person might come this way to it without my seeing them—if a person went from the door of our cottage they could not go to the shed without my seeing them.

WALTER THOMAS EMM, JUN . I remember my father being taken in custody—I am ten years old—my father was taken in custody on the Sunday—I know the prisoner Mullins—I had seen him before that Sunday—I saw him in the field on Friday, lying down with a handkerchief up to his eyes—he was lying at the back of the school wall—I saw him there about half an hour—I went away then to mind my pigs—I saw him again on Saturday, he came up towards some mound where they were putting down some drain pipes, and walked back again—it was a heap of sand in the middle of the field—he stayed there about half an hour—I did not see him there again.

Cross-examined. Q. Had you seen him there any days before? A. Yes; I saw him one or two weeks—he was getting herbs; picking up something off the ground—there were not persons putting drains down when he went up to this place by the sand; they were making a road there, there were eight men there—he did not go close to them, because there was a mound they were knocking down—he did not go and look at them; he walked up towards the mound, and then he walked back again—I do not know whether they could see him—he knew me.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. What were you doing there? A. I was minding my father's pigs.

JOHN RAYMOND . I am a tailor by business, and reside at 12, Oxfordsquare—I remember the night of 13th August—I know the Grove-road—I did not know and never saw Mrs. Emeley—at the corner of Grove-road there is a public-house, of the sign of the Earl of Aberdeen—there is a urinal by the side of it; about twelve feet from it—I remember being there on the evening of 13th August, about ten minutes to 8 o'olock—there was a man there and I waited—I was facing the urinal so as to see any one that came out—I saw the man that came out; it was the prisoner—he went round the corner of the Aberdeen; going round the corner, and turning to the right, would lead to the house No. 9, on the right hand side of the way.

COURT. Q. How far would the place be from the house No. 9? A. About four hundred and twenty yards as near as possible.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Have you measured it? A. No; it is merely guess.

Cross-examined. Q. You are a tailor? A. Yes; a journeyman tailor; not a jobbing tailor—I am a coat maker—I work for Mr. James Cook, of

63, Shorediteh—he was the last pereon—in 1847, I worked for Stevens and Clark—I have not been working for anybody since—I have been working nine years for the person who employed me—I work for him now; I am quite sure—I am not obliged to send for my work at all—I go to and for the premises for my work—I went to Scotland-yard on the Friday previous to the last examination of the prisouer—the prisoner bad been examained twice, I believe, previously to my going to Scotland-yard—I had beard of it—I read the newspapers; I had not read the account of the examination in the newspapers, never but once.

COURT. Q. Did you know the prison by sight? A. I never saw him in my life—I did not know him by name—I identified him simply by seeing the account of the examination in the papers, and I was satisfied that the man I saw come out of the urinal was the man charged with the murder—that was the way in which I imagined the case—having read the papers and seen that he was termed a plasterer by trade, and seeing the person come out of the urinal I saw that that man was a plasterer—I first saw him so as to identify him on 2d October, at the police-court in Arbour-square.

MR. BEST. Q. You say you saw something in the papers about his being a plasterer, did you also see a description of what he was like? A. No, I did not, I am quite sure—I observed that he was a plasterer by the coat he wore and the billy-cocked hat—he looked like a man engaged in that capacity returning home from his work at that hour of the nigh—I only caught a casual glance of him as he came out of the urinal—I observed his face—I did not take the trouble to count how many persons there ware in the room with the prisoner when I saw him at Arbour-squara—he was among a great many more; these might have been twenty—he was not in the court, bat in a room at the door of the court—I was taken there to see if I could point out the man I saw in the urinal—he had not then got on a plasterer's coat and a billy-cocked hat—I swore to him by his feature—I did see his features on the night in question, not longer perhaps than for two or three minutes—the man gave me every opportunity of looking at his countenance from what I was told and what I saw in the papers, I was satisfied that the man I had seen in the retiring-place was the man who was charged with the murder—I do not always notice the persons I see, but I was standing in this position (folding his arms) waiting to go in, and the man as he came out looked straight at me, up and down—it was not a casual glance that I had, the man gave me every opportunity of looking at his features, he seemed to be struck with my appearance—he stood and looked at me—I did not describe the appearance of the man before I went to the polioce court, not to a single person.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. When you went to the police-conrt was the prisoner at all pointed out to you, or did you select him from a number of other persons? A. I selected him instantly the door was opened—he was not pointed out to me at all.

Q. Have you any doubt at all, on the oath you have taken, that he is the man? A. I know I am on the charge of murder, and that, on the part of her Majesty, if I had had the least doubt previous to my going in, I should have given the prisoner the benefit thereof—he came out of the urinal and looked me in the face—I was close to him—I had a full opportunity of seeing him.

MR. BEST. Q. What officer went with you into the room where the prisoner was? A. Serjeant Tanner—I should imagine there were from fifteen to twenty persons there—I could not positively swear there were twenty—I am

positively certain there were fifteen—they were men and women, apparently prisoners, charged with various offences, waiting to go before the magistrate.

MR. BEST to RICHARD TANNER. Q. Did you accompany the lost witness into the room? A. Yes; I suppose there were about twelve or fifteen persons there—it is rather difficult to tell the number of persons really in the room—there were probably three or four men of about the same age as the prisoner—I told the witness to follow me, that there would be a number of persons, to look about him, and if he saw the prisoner to say so—he stopped me and told me that the prisoner, who was then sitting down at the end of the room, was the man he had seen come out of the urinal and turn down the Grove-road.

COURT. Q. Was he long in coming to that conclusion? A. Not more than a minute.

MR. BEST. Q. You have seen the prisoner on several occasions, have you ever seen him with a billy-cocked hat? A. I never saw him but twice before he was a prisoner—I never saw him with anything of that description.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Did you in any way point out the prisoner, or suggest, or direct the witness in reference to him? A. No; what he did was perfectly spontaneous.

Prisoner. Q. Had he not the opportunity of seeing me on previous days at Arbour-square? A. Certainly; if he had been there.

COURT. Q. According to the practice would the witness be entitled to any part of the reward for giving evidence on this occasion? A. I think not—I have known a reward to be divided between witnesses in a case.

JOHN MITCHELL . I am a seaman—I also work at the docks—I live at Hoxton—I was working at the docks on Monday, 13th, and Tuesday, 14th August—I left my house at 4 o'clock on Tuesday morning to go to my work—on my way to the docks I passed through Stepney-green—it might be about five minutes to 5, as I was going down from the top of the Green—as I was going through the Green towards the docks I saw a man coming up the Green towards me, he was on the same side of the road as myself, the right side—there was nothing about the man at first to attract my attention, but on acloser approach he trembled—he seemed in a state of very nervous excitement—he had a flush on his cheek, he trembled, and his lips quivered—he was on the kerb and I was on the right, and he made a cross-walk and came aside of me, and as he came close to me I took my hands out of my pocket and he made a falter and trembled, and he stepped on my left and I turned round and had a look at his back afterwards—I had an opportunity of seeing his face distinctly as he came towards me—I took particular remark of all his feature—the prisoner is the man—his pockets were very bulky, particularly the right-hand pocket—I know the Grove-road—I suppose where I met the man would be about three-quarters of a mile from there—I know Barnsley-street—it would be a circuitous route to come that way from Grove-road to Barnsley-street—the Mile-end-road would be the direct way.

Cross-examined. Q. I believe you were quite frightened at the man, were you not? A. He rather alarmed me, but he did not frighten me much; I got out of his road—I stepped on one side; seeing a man in that state, of course it alarmed me; you would have been alarmed if you had been there—he had on corduroy trousers, a brown wide-awake, and a kind of a drab tweed coat, with shooting pockets, and the pockets were loaded up to the mouth, at least the mouth gaped; there was something heavy in the bottom of them—both the pockets quite bulged out, very largely indeed—he

seemed to labour under the weight he was carrying—he Seemed to labour that way that it excited my suspicion that he had done something bad—it was as though he was carrying something very bulky.

Q. When did you give any information of what you had seen? A. I took no more notice of it till I heard of the murder on the Friday; I saw posted up at a newsvendor's the atrocious murder of an old lady, but I did not know in what part of Stepney it was; and about a week after that I went through the Grove-road and made inquiry about what was the matter, and they told me that was where the old lady was murdered, and then I directly calculated that it was the party I had seen that morning—I went and gave information to the police two or three days after, at the Robert-street station—I do not know the date—I think it was the inspector I went to; he had pen and ink before him, but whether he took heed of it or not I did not know—I went and gave information on the tuesday as the prisoner was in custody on the Monday—I heard that a man had been taken into custody, and according to the description of him I took it to be the party I had seen—I did not hear a description of him from anybody, but I heard many people talking about him, and by that I thought he was the party—I did not go to see the prisoner until I saw him at the House of Detention; that was on the Saturday as he was in custody on the Monday—I then saw the prisoner—he was in his cell by himself—nobody showed him to me; the turnkey took me round and opened every door—I saw no man completely to resemble the man but the prisoner—I saw about thirty—when the door was opened he stood sideways, all the others faced out—it was not that that made me think something was not right—I knew his features again directly, by the description I gave of him—I could not be mistaken in him—I did not go by what I heard from other people—I had been talking about this with lots of other people; before the murder was discovered and afterwards—I am a dock labourer—I was brought up a seaman—I have to be at my work at six o'clock, and I have to walk four miles and a half—I belong to the transporting gang, that remove the ships from one part to another—I heard of the reward that had been offered—that was not before I gave the information—I did not do it for the reward—I expect to be rewarded for it.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. What opportunity had you of seeing the prisoner?—how long do you think you saw him when you met him in Stepney-green? A. It might be about five minutes—I was abreast of Mr. Spill's manufactory when I saw the man coming up—he was about abreast of College-terrace—I suppose that might be 300 yards from me—he was coming up in my direction for about five minutes—I did not have that opportunity of seeing his features, not till he got closer—I remarked to myself I wondered who he was.

Q. What opportunity had you of seeing his face when he came up to you? A. By his ghastly appearance—when I went to the House of Detention there was nobody there but two turnkeys and one gentleman—neither of those persons pointed out the prisoner to me in any way—they opened thirty cells; I went through them all and eventually selected this man—I do not know whether a wide-awake and a billy-cocked hat are the same.

STEPHEN THORNTON (re-examined). A billy-cock and a wide-awake are the same thing.

WILLIAM ROWLAND . I live at 25, Barnaley-street, Bethnal-green, and am a paper-hanger—I was in the habit of doing work for Mrs. Emsley—I was for some years warrant officer, at Worship-street police court—I saw Mrs. Emsley

at my house on 13th August last, and paid her some money, about 2l.—I never saw her afterwards—I know the prisoner—I know him as working for Mrs. Emsley occasionally—I saw him on Monday, 13th, about the middle of the day, somewhere about 1 or 2 o'clock, two I think it was, in Temple-terrace, close by Barnsley-street—I did not see him again till the Wednesday—he was to do some work for me on the Monday—I gave him directions to do it and expected he would have completed it on the Monday, but he did not till the Wednesday—he did not come to work on the Tuesday—he came on the Wednesday—I saw him at the job on the Wednesday—I said nothing to him that day—he completed the work—I saw him again on the Friday—he came to me and asked me to assist him in doing some work—I said, "I cannot very well afford the time, as I have got some other job"—he said, "If you will I will come and assist you," and he did come and assist me in the morning, and then I went to Gaffney's, the cooper's, and on the road I met a person who asked me, in Mullins's presence, "Have you heard that an old lady has been murdered in Grove-road? "I said, "No, I have not, "and the party said," I hope it is not Mrs. Emsley"—I noticed Mullins at that time—I noticed a tremor come over him, and a slight alteration of the features—I then went on with him to Gaffney's and finished his job—I found his work was done in a very strange manner, the paper was all turned upside down, and his mode of doing things was more like a person that was imbecile than anything else—after finishing what I agreed to do for him I left, and just afterwards I heard it confirmed that it was Mrs. Emsley that was murdered—I then went back to the cooper's where he was at work, called him out, and said, "Mullins, I want to speak to you; it is Mrs. Emsley that is murdered"—I then saw a very remarkable change in the man—he said, "Is it? come outside," in a nervous irritable way—he seemed excited, very much indeed—he said, "Come, and have some drink"—there was a public house about two doors off, and he said, "Let us have some rum, you like rum"—I do not like rum particularly, however, I did have some with him, and then I noticed that his appearance indicated something very extraordinary; he was pale, and he shook and trembled, which gave me a notion at the time that there was something very wrong about him—I next saw him on Wednesday, 5th September, previous to the apprehension of Emm on the Sunday—I met him about half-past 8 o'clock in the evening—I said to him, "Mullins, they have not found out the murderer of Mrs. Emsley; have you heard anything of the murder of Mrs. Emsley?"—he said, "No; "Nor have I, "I said—he said he was going to get something for his supper—I said, "I am going round here; "he said, "I will walk with you"—we went into a house to see a person, but did not see him—when we came out the prisoner said, "Let us have some spirits, I want some spirits, "and we did have a small drop of gin—I then went out of the house with him and I said, "Mullins, I suspect a man very strongly, and I have got him in my mind's eye now, and I will not lose sight of him till the perpetrator of this diabolical murder has been discovered"—he then assumed a very ghastly appearance; a pallor came over him, a death-like hue, and he said, "I suspect the man likewise, and I am watching him now"—I said, "I believe, Mullins, the man I suspect is not the man you suspect"—he then wanted to leave me, although he had said he was going my way—I said, "I thought you were going to get something for your supper?"—he said, "No, I shall not have any supper now"—then I put another question to him respecting the removal of the paper at Mrs. Emsley's house, which had been deposited in the parlour and which was taken up into the second

floor—he said, "Some man helped me to move it"—I said, "Who was that man?"—he said, "I can't describe the man"—I said, "Why, can't you describe the man that helped you for an hour and a half, you being an old officer?"—he said, "No, I can't"—I said, "I can hardly believe you"—he then said, "I will leave you, I won't go any further with you, "and there I left him—I had known him before for nearly three months—I had heard of him before that, but did not know him personally—I know Mrs. Emm—on 13th August, the very day in question, I went with her to the workhouse to see a relation of hers, an old gentleman that I have known many years—her husband was with her—we went there about half-past 6, and stopped there till it was getting dark; at that time it was dark about half-past 7; we could hardly see in the ward where the old man was lying—she remained with me the whole of the time, and Emm was there—about ten minutes past 9, that same night, they went away with a man who is here, the driver of the cart—Mrs. Emm, Mrs. Buckley, and Walter Emm, four of them, went away in the cart—I saw them depart; they were going to Stratford—they wanted me to go, but I said, no, I had other business—I saw them depart about ten minutes past 9 that same night.

Cross-examined. Q. Mulling is a plasterer by trade is he not, not a paperhanger? A. Well, I don't know exactly what he is; he was represented to me to be a plasterer, and I believe he is—it is not difficult-to put up paperhangings—as a business it is nothing, you may learn it in about six months—I don't believe Mullins is a paper-hanger; not a tradesman—I have had several conversations with him about this poor old lady—I know he was in the habit of going to her place, and working for her—I was also in the habit of being employed by her—I was sorry to hear of her death, because I lose something by it; I felt grieved that a woman should be murdered in that way, and so would any man with any feeling—I did not see the prisoner from the 13th till the 15th—I saw him once or twice afterwards—I had no other conversation with him after the 5th September, that was the last; that was after the murder had been found out—the other conversation was before it was discovered—I saw him about the neighbourhood several times during that period—it was not because the carpenters had not finished their work that he did not finish the job, there were no carpenters employed—there was some patch-work to finish to the ceilings in some small houses, which was work that required to be done directly, as it puts them to inconvenience, and I expected him to do it—the old paper had not to be taken off, not as far as he was concerned.

Q. Do you remember what sort of a hat he wore generally? A. Yes, sometimes a hat and sometimes a peaked cap—when I saw him about 2 o'clock on the Monday I believe he had his hat or cap on; I really cannot tell now—I never saw him wear a billy-cock hat—I have never given any information against a man named Smith about this murder—I spoke before the Coroner of the man having some quarrel with Mrs. Emsley—that was before I know anything about this charge, it was after she was found murdered—I did not give information about Smith, I merely said that he had had a quarrel with Mrs. Emsley and the matter was referred to me—she said to me, "This man wants to rob me, Mr. Rowland, of a 50l. note"—I said, "No, I don't think he does"—she had detained his rent-book and he was trying to get it and seized her basket—he was a tenant of Mrs. Emsley—I know him, he is a lame man and walks with a crutch—I settled the matter between them amicably, I found that Mrs. Emsley was wrong and the tenant was right; but she made use of an exclamation, "This man

wants to rob me of a 50l. note, and I have got it here"—I did not tell the Coroner I had important evidence to give—I said I had evidence to give respecting the customs and habits of the late Mrs. Emsley—I was not examined then; I think not till the third time.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Do I understand you to say that this dispute whatever it was, between Mrs. Emsley and Smith was amicably settled? A. Yes, and they parted on friendly terms, at least they were both satisfied—Smith is a man of about forty-six years of age.

ISAAC TYRRELL . I live at 1, Temple-terrace, Bethnal-green—I know the prisoner, he has worked at my house, not for me—I remember his working there on Monday, 13th August, pointing tiles and repairing the ceiling of the front-room—I saw him at work on that day—he had a hammer that he was working with—he knocked the ceiling down with a hammer—this (produced) is something like the hammer.

COURT. Q. Is that the common hammer that is used by a plasterer? A. It is.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Do you remember what time he left his work? A. About 6 in the evening; it was not finished—I had not given directions as to its being finished—I had nothing whatever to do with it—he came next on the Wednesday, not before—he did not come at all on the Tuesday.

Cross-examined. Q. I believe he could not finish in consequence of some carpenter's work being required to be done? A. Oh, no; he could have finished—he wanted some cement for the tiles on the copper; he could have done that—I can't say whether he got any cement that day; I did not see him—I believe there was none there on the Monday—he had other tools with him, he had a trowel—he did not leave them behind, he took them away with him, I am confident of that—there were no boards given him to be fastened down by a carpenter, not in my house—a piece of board was given him on the Thursday to put on the trap door leading to the copper—that was not finished till the Thursday; the cement was put on on the Wednesday. THOMAS PRIOR. I am barman at the Royal Oak public-house, Keppelstreet, Chelsea—On Friday, 7th September last, I bought a pencil-case of the prisoner's wife—this is the one (produced)—the point of the pencilcase was bent nearly flat when I bought it—I straightened it—it was very dirty indeed—I cleaned it with rotten stone.

ANN COOPER . I am a widow living at 12, Little Orford-street, Chelsea—I know the prisoner—he, his wife and family, lodged at my house—he has five children; they left my house on 26th August—after they left Inspector Thornton came there—I saw him find a boot—I had seen that boot before; I saw it thrown out of Mullins' window on the Sunday afternoon, as they left in the evening—it was in the dust-hole when Thornton found it—this is the boot (produced). Cross-examined. Q. What part of the house were you in when you say this boot came out of the window? A. In the first-floor back room, looking into the yard—there are three rooms up stairs and two down, and a kitchen; it came out of the back parlour window—I was shaking a cloth out of the window from a young man's table who had been having breakfast—it was not Charles Shirley, he was not in the house at that time.

COURT. Q. Was the back parlour a room occupied by the prisoner? A. That was the room occupied by him.

MR. BEST. Q. Who occupied the other rooms? A. A person of the name of Cowper occupied the front parlour—he had been there about a

week—a young man named Levick also lived in the house; he left on the following Saturday—there was no other person living there—I think Cowper served in a china-ware shop, but I don't know exactly; the other man used to drive a coal cart, his employer is a coal and coke merchant—I am sure there was no man of the name of Shirley there—I have seen a young man of that name there once or twice whilst Mullins was there.

MR. PARRY. Q. Who was he? did you know anything about him? A. I did not know much about him—I believe his father is a calenderer, a calico glazer, or something of that sort, not a plasterer—he is about twentyfive or twenty-six years of age—Mullins did not sleep at home regularly—I believe he once told me that his work laid over at Stepney, it was his habit to go out on a Monday and return on Saturday night—his wife and children were most of the time at home—I believe Mrs. Mullins used to go oat washing.

STEPHEN THORNTON (re-examined). I found this boot in the dust-hole described by Mrs. Cooper at the house 12, Orford-street, Marlborough-road, Chelsea—I gave instructions for a piece of the landing to be cut out on the second-floor of the house 9, Grove-road—it was done and I produce it—Sergeant Tanner actually cut it out—there is a foot mark of blood on it, of the left boot of a man, coming from the room.

WILLIAM THOMAS (re-examined). I was present when the piece of wood was cut out of the landing—this is the piece, it was taken from the landing on the second-floor; the top of the house.

STEPHEN THORNTON (re-examined). The marks on it are marks of blood—I had to wash the boot, it was in a very filthy state, it laid about two feet in the ashes—I have made a comparison of the boot with the marks on this piece of the landing—there are two nails near the too that seem to correspond exactly, and there is a licking up of the blood in the centre of the boot which appears to me a hole that would gather up the blood and leave the impression that appears to be left on that board—there is a double row of nails on the left side of the boot, and there are two nails more especially very prominent in the boot as there is on the board; if you turn the boot on to the impression you will see the two nails speak of—in washing the boot a great portion of the heel fell off; it was in a filthy state—all manner of filth had been thrown into the dust-hole.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you put this pencil mark round the impression? A. No; I think Dr. Gill did it—I had seen the marks repeatedly—these two nails in the shoe were strong in my mind—it was that which made me bring the boot away having an idea of what such an impression would leave in the warm blood—Tanner cut the mark out—a board was previously nailed over it by one of the officers—I saw it nailed over with instructions that it should be preserved.

RICHARD TANNER (re-examined). The piece of wood which Thornton has produced is in the same state that it was when it was first observed at the house, with the exception of the pencil mark round it, that was made by Dr. Gill in my presence—I cut it out myself—I understand the terms billycock and wide-awake to mean the same thing—in London they are generally called wide-awakes, in Staffordshire and those parts, I have heard they are called billy-cocks.

MR. BEST. Q. I believe you were not at the house the first time the footmark was discovered? A. I was the first detective at the house, Dillon was there before me, it was pointed out to me by inspector Kerrison.

WALTER KERRISON (Police-inspector). I produce a knife which I found in the pocket of the deceased—I searched her pockets in the morning—I saw

Dillon find a ring; this is it (produced) it was found between the mattress and the bed—I observed some marks of blood on the landing of the room—I called Dr. Gill's attention to them—this is the piece of board that was cut out of that landing—with the exception of the pencil mark, it is in the same state as when I first observed it—I found nothing in the old lady's pockets but this knife—I found no money or anything of the kind.

DR. GILL (re-examined). I have examined this boot with a powerful magnifying glass—I found one hair between the welt and the sole in this broken side, the best part of it was packed within the boot; I found another hair on the surface, and a third here—I am of opinion that they were human hairs—I think I can produce them now—part of them were cut up to put under the microscope, and part of them Dr. Letheby cut up.

COURT. Q. Do you say that they are certainly human hairs? A. Certainly—I ascertained that, by means of the microscope—my experience enables me to say that they are human hairs—I could tell what colour they were—they were much the same colour as Mrs. Emsley's hair—I had some of her hair in my possession to compare the two—I compared the hairs with what I actually took from her head—they appeared to correspond in colour.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. You cannot of course say more than that? A. No one could say more than that—human hair is used for plaster and mortar; there is no doubt of that—I examined the pencil case that has been produced—I saw a spot on it which I imagined to be blood—it was on the edge—I asked Dr. Ansell to examine it with me, and we examined it together under the microscope—in my judgment that spot was blood—a microscope is an infallible test as far as regards the proof of blood—it is believed to be so.

MR. BEST. Q. You cannot tell whether that blood was human blood or not, I believe? A. Certainly not.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Unfortunately at present there is no test by which you can detect human blood from other blood, is there? A. No.

COURT. Q. Where is the mark you speak of? A. Along the line of the opening of the pencil case; between that and the head.

ROBERT WENT (Policeman, K 160). After the discovery of the murder I searched the coal cellar at the house, 9, Grove-road—in the coal cellar under the coal, I found a tin box—it was wrapped up in part of a handkerchief—I found in the box 16l. 2s. in silver, and 32l. in gold.

JAMES WRIGHT . I am an estate and house agent—I cany on my business in Bow-road—I called on Mrs. Emsley about some paper-hangings on Saturday, the 11th, to the best of my knowledge; the Saturday previous to the murder—I saw her in the evening about 6 o'clock—I remained with her, I dare say, an hour; not looking at the papers all the time—I went up stairs—when I first went in the passage, the charwoman who has been examined, opened the door—that was the last time I saw the old lady—there was another person in the house at the time—I saw a person sitting on the stairs—that was the person whom I saw at the Coroner's jury—his name is Mullins—I see him here now—it is the prisoner.

Cross-examined. Q. Where do you live?—in the neighbourhood? A. About two hundred yards from the place—I was not at the house at all on Tuesday, the 14th, I am quite positive—I do not know a man of the name of Stevenson—I am quite positive that I never entered the house after the Saturday—not at all in the afternoon of Tuesday—that I am quite positive of.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Is there any pretence for suggesting that you

were ever near the house after the Saturday? A. Not any—I know the old lady before—I had done several things for her.

ELIZABETH FUKE . I am married, and live at 17 1/2, James-street, Commercial-road, East—that house belonged to the late Mrs. Emsley—I was tenant of a house of hers at No. 14, in that street—I know the prisoner—I remember hearing of this murder—he came to my house a few days before 13th August, to set a copper—that was, I believe, about twelve days before 13th August—when he came, he said Mrs. Elmsley was a miserable old wretch; that she sent men about to do work, but she did not always find them in materials to do it with—I asked him what he required and he said some cement—I asked him what quantity, he said, "About a peck"—I gave him the money and he went for it, and when he returned he further said that he had been at her house that morning; that she was sitting down to breakfast which he would not have sat down to himself, she would not even allow herself as much as a farthing's worth of milk to put in her tea; she was drinking it without, but I need not take any notice of it to her; it was a great pity such a miserable old wretch should be allowed to live.

Cross-examined. Q. Was that alluding to her penurious habits, and mode of life? you did not think he was going to murder her, from that? A. No; I believed it was in allusion to her penurious habits.

The following Witnesses were called for the Defence.

MARY MULLINS On 13th August last, I resided with my mother, at 12, Orford-street, Chelsea—my father lived at Barnsley-street at that time—two of my brothers, James and Thomas, lived at home with my mother—there was another, John, he used to be down with my father; he sometimes used to come up to mother's—I have seen this pencil-case with my brother James, in June and July, in his possession—I do not know, where my brother James is now—he is a sailor—I saw it in June last—I have seen it several times since at my mother's house, in August, and about a fortnight before my father was taken—I have had frequent opportunities of observing it—I have had it in my hand several times—I believe this to be the pencilcase I have seen with my brother.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. When did you first hear of the murder? A. I can't exactly say the day of the month—it was on Saturday—I read of it in the papers—I was in a situation at 9, Sloane-terraee, Chelsea, with Mr. Gibson—I have seen Mrs. Emsley once or twice—I know that my father worked for her—I had not seen my father before I heard of the murder—I saw him on the Saturday night, that was after the murder; I was dismissed the same day by Mr. Gibson from his service; on the Monday after my father was taken—he was taken on the Sunday—it was in September that I was dismissed—I was dismissed from my situation because my master read of it in the paper—that was all—I swear that—that is all the reason I can give—he told me I had better go, as my father had been taken, as he did not like to have me in the house.

Q. Was nothing said about removing a stone in the kitchen? A. Yes; I dropped a shilling there—the reason I was dismissed was not because I had been found removing a stone in the kitchen, and been supposed to be hiding something—it was after that, when I was paid my wages, when master told me to go—mistress paid me in the kitchen, and I dropped a shilling down by the side of the fire-place—there was a little girl came in, she saw me removing the stone—I told her to hold the candle while I removed it; she told my master after I had left—the removal of the stone was not the cause of my being dismissed—I found the shilling—no one was present

when I found it—the little girl who held the light did not see me pick it up; she was called away—the bell rang for her to go up stairs—I did not find the shilling in anybody's presence—I was not dismissed for removing the stone because it was supposed I was hiding something—the master, when I took the papers up in the morning, read of it in the newspapers—he did not tell me for an hour after, for one of the young ladies was ill, and he was afraid it might disturb them, so he called me out, and told me to meet him in Sloane-street; and he asked me if I had heard about my father; he said he had seen it in the newspapers, and it was very bad, and he wished me to leave—I had got the stone up before the little girl came into the kitchen—I called her to hold the candle for me—she was accidentally called away, and did not see me find the shilling; I did not tell her not to say anything about it—I did not tell her I would give her sixpence if she did not say anything about it—I can't say exactly what time in the day it was that this stone was being removed, a little after 2 o'clock, I think—I was dismissed on the Monday after my father was taken; about 4 o'clock I think it was; between 3 and 4 o'clock—I was lifting the stone about 2 o'clock, and I was dismissed between 3 and 4 o'clock—it was after the master had told me to leave, that I was lifting the stone; I had to get my clothes and things—I last saw my brother James in July, or the beginning of August; in July I think it was—I had not seen him for some time before the murder; he did not leave home since the murder; he left some time before—I have seen this pencil-case with my brother James—I have two other brothers, John and Thomas—John used to sleep sometimes at my mother's, sometimes down at my father's; both of them, John and Thomas, slept sometimes in my mother's room, and sometimes with my father—my father used to come home very seldom; only on the Saturday—he was not in the habit of sleeping with us; only on Saturday night or Sunday—my brother went down in the country, and he heard of my brother coming home from sea, and came to see him, and he remained at home till some time after my brother came home from sea—my brother came home from sea in May—in August John and Thomas were living generally with my mother—Thomas was in a situation at a green-grocer's, in Marlborough-road, Chelsea—he was an errand-boy—he used to go there regularly every day, and slept at home—when I was out of a situation I used to sleep at home—I went to see my father on the Saturday after the murder, because I was anxious to hear about it; I was anxious to hear about Mrs. Emsley, seeing it in the papers—he did not send or come to me, I went to him, to my mother's—I was paid 12l. a year by Mr. Gibson—I can't say exactly how much it was that I received on the Monday when I was dismissed—it was not so much as a pound—it was 17s. or 18s. I am not sure which—I was only there for a short time—the slab that I was removing, was in the back kitchen, by the side of the fire-place; there was a hole by the side of the fender—Mr. Gibson's is a large house.

THOMAS MULLINS . I live at No. 1, Rose-court, East Smithfield—I am about sixteen years old—I work at light labouring—I have once assisted my father in his trade—I have been to see him in Barnsley-street—I stayed with him there—I remember Monday, 13th August last—I was staying with him in Barnsley-street that day, at No. 33—my brother John was staying with him besides me—I was doing nothing that day—I was at home all day—my father was out at work—I remember what time he came home that evening from his work, it was about a quarter-past 7—he stayed in the house after that, and did not go out any more after that—

he slept there—he slept in a little bed by himself, and I and my brother slept together in the same room—I got up in the morning about half-past 7—my father, after he got up, went and water-washed the passage ceiling, and stopped the nail holes—he was at work doing that till about 12 o'clock; he then came in and had his dinner about 12, and went out about half-past 12—I did not go with him—I do not know this boot at all—I have never seen it—I never saw my father with a boot like that—I clean my father's boots sometimes—I know what a billy-cock hat is—I never saw my father wear one of those—one generally hears it called by that name—it is a round hat—it is the same thing as a wide-awake—he had not a brown wide-awake on the Monday evening at all, he had his hat.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARKY. Q. When did you last see your brother James? A. About three mouths ago from this time as near as I can judge—I perfectly remember the time of the murder; he was then at home.

Q. When did he leave home? A. Oh, he was not at home; I made a mistake—I said just now that he was at home—he left home about three or four weeks before the supposed murder.

Q. If you knew that, what made you tell me that he was at home? A. I bethought myself; it ran in my mind—I have been spoken to about whether my brother was at home or not at the time of the murder—it has not been very much spoken of in our family whether he was at home or not—I have heard it spoken of, because some persons asked me—I made a mistake when I said that he was at home—he never wore a wide-awake hat—there was not such a thing as a wide-awake hat in the family—he went to sea—I do not know where he is—he went in the "Mechanic"—I don't know where for; New York—I was not in work at the time of the murder—I have worked in the Marlborough-road—I was not working there in August—I can swear I was with my father on the 13th—I was not at work at a green-grocer's in Marlborough-road in August—Yes, I dare say I was; the very day I left I came down to my father's.

COURT. Q. Were you at work in Marlborough-road at a green-grocer's in the month of August? A. I do not know; I don't recollect.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Just now you said the very day you left you came down to your father's? A. I came down to my father's—it was on a Sunday morning that I left, and I came down on Monday to my father's—I can't answer whether I was at work at this green-grocer's on Sunday, 12th August—I have done work since 13th August, at Mr. Pinnock's—I have only been there one day, that is all the work I can recollect that I have done since 13th August—that is all that I have done since 13th August—I do recollect—before the 12th August I was at work at a green-grocer's in Marlborough-road, all that part of August up to the 12th—Pinnock is the name of the green-grocer—I was also at work for him two Saturdays ago—that is all the work I have done—I had been at work for him about six months before, and I have done one job for him since—I was dismissed—I was not sent away—I left myself, of my own accord—I did not have any other situation—I was not sent away, I am quite sure—I am quite sure I left on 12th August—I did not go with my father on the 13th—I was at Barasley-street all day on 13th August—I was there about 12 o'clock in the day time—no one went with me, only myself; that was all—my brother John was down in the room in Barnsley-street—I slept at home on the Sunday night with my father, in Orford-street—that was on the Sunday night—my father was at home on the Sunday—he left home on the Monday morning about six o'clock

—no one went with him—I went to Barnsley-street at 12 o'clock in the day—I did nothing there all day—I went there to see my father, and to see how he got on with his work—that was not the reason I gave up my situation—I did not shut myself in the room all day—my brother John was there when I got there—he and I were in the room all day together; at 12 o'clock we were—I went out, but I was not long out—my brother did not go with me; he stayed in—he had slept in Barnsley-street the night before, by himself—he is older than I—I did not know that from him; I knew it by myself—I was there with him—no, not the night before; I was there all the day with him, and he slept there—I know he slept there on the Sunday night, because I went home, and my brother did not sleep with me, and when I went down there on the Monday morning he was there—I slept with my mother in Orford-street on the Sunday night—my brother John was not there—he slept at Barnsley-street—he was not doing any work at that time—he was not in work at all, neither of us—he was looking after work, he went there being near the docks—I went out for about a quarter of an hour—I have no remembrance what time of the day that was—it was about the middle of the day—I dined that day in Barnsley-street, with my father and brother—I am sure my father dined there; we had some bread and meat for dinner—we dined about one o'clock—my father came home to have his dinner—I don't recollect at what time he came home to his dinner—there was no table in the room when I was there—there was one chair—there was no bed forme to lie on—I and my brother did not sleep on the bare floor—there were some canes there on the floor, that they make chairs of—they were on the bed and we took them off the bed and put them on the floor—the bed is a mere tressel with a sacking; my father slept there—that is the little bed I spoke of just now—my father remained in after coming home about a quarter to 7—we had our supper afterwards—I had some bread and tea for supper—my brother and I went to bed at 9 o'clock—I did not go to sleep—I was not awake all night—we did not go to sleep till my father got into bed—I went to sleep about 12 o'clock—I went to bed about 9 and went to sleep about 12—I could not go to sleep—I do not know what time my father went to sleep—he went to bed at the same time we did—I could not go to sleep till my father came to bed—he came to bed at 9 o'clock.

Q. Why could you not go to sleep before 12 o'clock? A. Because I could I not—I am really in earnest in saying that—I did not go away the next day—I remained in Barnsley-street the whole of the next day, Tuesday—I slept with I my father again on Tuesday night—I continued to sleep there till about Thursday, and then I went home again—my brother John was in the same room—I went out once on the Tuesday for a quarter of an hour again, not much more—the room is a very small room on the ground-floor—I and my brother remained in that room the whole of Monday and Tuesday—I got there on Monday, about 12 o'clock; alone—I first heard of the murder on Saturday evening—I then remembered that I had slept there on the Monday night—when I first heard of the murder on the Saturday evening I remembered that I had slept there on the Monday night—I first heard of the murder when my father came home—there was a row in the house with Mrs. Emsley and another woman, I was in the room—that was, I believe, on the Monday—a row in No. 33, Barnsley-street—that was one of Mrs. Emsley's houses—there were some children used to sleep in the room; Mrs. Musick's—they slept in the room my father occupied—I can't recollect where they slept on the Monday night—they did not sleep with me—I do not know about their sleeping in the same room; I don't recollect it—those children are about

seven or eight years old; the eldest—there are three children—I can't recollect whether they slept in the room that same night—I don't recollect whether they did on the Tuesday night—I have slept in the same room with those children, in Barnsley-street—I can't tell whether they slept with me on the Monday night—I don't know whether my brother can—I can't tell you—I don't recollect whether they slept there on the Tuesday, or on the Wednesday or Thursday.

COURT. Q. When did you last sleep in Barnsley-street? A. On Wednesday night—I never went there any more after—I came up to look after work—I last slept in Barnsley-street on the Wednesday after 13th August—there was a Mrs. Musick, the mother of these children, who slept there—I had slept there before the Monday—I was in the habit of sleeping then sometimes.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Did you sleep there on the Saturday nigh before the Monday? A. No—Mrs. Emsley did not turn Mrs. Musiek out—she ordered her to go—she stayed there by my father's permission while he was away—when my father was up at Brompton she used to sleep in the same room—that is what I have been told—I have never slept in the same room when she has been sleeping there—I do not know where she slept on the night of 13th August—I believe she was in the house—when my father was there she used to sleep in the back kitchen, and her children used sometimes to sleep in my father's room.

Q. I will again ask you how you came to know, on the Saturday following the murder, that the murder was committed on Monday, 13th August; how was your attention called to the date? A. Well, hearing of the row, in Barnsley-street on the Monday when I was there—I did not know that the murder was committed on the Monday night; I did not say it had been committed on the Monday night—no one asked me on the Saturday whether I remembered having slept there on the Monday—I understood by the papers that the murder was committed on the 13th—I heard that on the Saturday evening; I heard that it was committed on the Monday or Tuesday.

MR. BEST. Q. When you heard of this murder having been committed did you remember the row in Barnsley-street? A. Yes—it was from that that I remembered being in Barnsley-street on the Monday—the bed of rushes was not a very comfortable bed; I could not go to sleep because it was so hard.

JOHN MULLINS . I am the son of the prisoner, and live at No. 1, Rose-court, East Smithfield—I am a labourer—at present I am out of employ—when I am employed it is at the docks—I remember my father living at 33, Barnsley-street, right well; I lived there with him—I was there on Monday, 13th August last—my father was there on that day, and my brother, the last witness—my father went out at his regular time in the morning, a little after 8, after breakfast—he came home again about 12, I should say, and had his dinner; he then went to work again—I next saw him at 7 o'clock; it might want a few minutes to 7—he came into the room where I was—he had his supper at 8 o'clock and went to bed at 9—I went to bed there—I slept in that room—my father slept in the bed—I did not go to sleep for some time after I went to bed; it is not every time you can go to sleep when you lie down—I got up in the morning about the same time, half-past 7—my father got up, he had his breakfast a little after 8 o'clock, and then he water washed the passage and stopped the nail-holes—at 12 o'clock he came in to his dinner, and at half-past 12 he told me he was going to Cambridge-road

to work there; he then left—I never saw this boot in all my life—I know right well what a billy-cock hat is—it is what they wear in Ireland—my father never wore one of those.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Did you ever wear one? A. At times, in Ireland, I might have one for about a month—I am not at work now—I was not at work at the time I spoke of in August—I have not been at work since—I should say it was about four months since I was at work in the docks; during that time I have done nothing, because my health would not allow me—I have lived with my father during that time in Barnsley-street, and at Brompton, in Orford-street—I went there once or twice—my father slept at home on the night of the murder—I mean in Little Orford-street.

Q. You said just now that he got up about 8, his usual time, on the Monday morning, is that so? A. You speak a little too fast for me; I recollect my father getting up on Monday morning, 13th August—if you speak a little easier I shall understand you.

COURT. Q. Where did you sleep on Monday night, 13th August? A. At 33, Barnsley-street.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. You are quite sure of that? A. On Monday night I slept in Barnsley-street; and on Sunday night, with my father—he had his breakfast on Monday morning, I recollect that.

Q. Who slept with your father on the Sunday night besides yourself?

A. On Sunday night? he used to go home of a Saturday night.

Q. Never mind what he used to do; you say you slept with your father on the Sunday night, at Barnsley-street, who slept with you? A. On Sunday night? you are mistaken, you spoke too fast; I did not understand what you said.

Q. You said distinctly that you slept with your father in Barnsley-street, and that your father got up to breakfast at 8 o'clock in the morning, is that true or false? A. You say, where he had his breakfast on Monday morning, don't you? well, he had it in Oakum-street, no, not in Oakum-street, at 33, Barnsley-street.

COURT. Q. On Monday morning he had his breakfast in Barnsley-street, is that so? A. On Monday morning had he his breakfast in Barnsley-street? he used to go away on Monday morning from Oakum-steeet.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Were you at home all day on the Monday, it seems to puzzle you about the breakfast? A. No, it does not puzzle me—I cannot say whether he did breakfast in Barnsley-street on the Monday morning—he used to come home on Saturday night to his own place—to the best of my knowledge I was at 33, Barnsley-street on the Sunday night—I did not sleep there on the Tuesday night; I went up to Little Orford-street—I can't say how long I stayed there; my father was out at work on the Monday and I was in the room along with my brother Thomas—on Sunday night I think I slept with myself—if I said I slept with my father I was mistaken—I did not do any work on Monday—I did not go out the whole of the day—I sat in the little room all day reading an almanack, that was all that there was there—there was a little bedstead in the room, only one—my brother Thomas slept with me on the Monday night—I know three little children of the name of Musick—they used to sleep in the kitchen—they have; slept in my father's room—on Monday night they slept in the kitchen—I won't swear that they did; they must either have slept in the room or in the kitchen—I swear they slept in the house, I used to hear them asking their mother for a good many things—I did not leave the house till

Tuesday evening—I remained in the house all day doing nothing—there were other persons in the house at 33, Barnsley-street—I know a young woman named Brimson—I think Mrs. Musick saw my father water-washing the passage and stopping the nail-holes; she was in and out—I don't know where she is now; we can't find her; she is put out of the way, there is no doubt about it—I remember right well when my brother went to sea, it was in July—I cannot tell where these children slept on the night in question, except that they slept in the house.

MR. BEST. Q. Have you tried to find Mrs. Musick? A. Yes, we have made inquiries about her and cannot find her out—I had no billy-cock hat on this Monday.

CAROLINE BARNES . I live at Laurestine-cottage, Grove-road—I know No. 9, Grove-road, where Mrs. Emsley lived—my house is nearly opposite to that house—I remember Monday, 13th August last—I saw Mrs. Einsley, on that day—I saw the house on the Tuesday morning—I saw some one moving the paper on the Tuesday morning—the paper was very white outside, paper-hangings—it was in the top room—it was about twenty minutes to 10 o'clock when I saw this—I saw the right hand window of the top room open a little way, which attracted my attention—I saw the window move; it attracted me being opened; I saw it opening—I could not tell who the person was that was in the room.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. When was your attention first called to this matter; when did you hear of the murder? A. On the Friday—I told Mr. Rose about this; I said I supposed it to be Mrs. Emsley, but I did not see the old lady—I said I had not seen her since I saw her moving the paper—I supposed it to be her; I did not take any notice—I was very busy at the time—it was about twenty minutes to 10 on the Tuesday.

MR. BEST. Q. I believe you gave evidence of this before the coroner? A. I did.

JAMES STEVENSON . I am a builder, and reside at 3, Library-road, Oldford—I had occasion to go to Grove-road on Tuesday morning, 14th August last—I called at 3, Grove-road, at the house of a man named Piper—I did not see him, but I saw his family, and left a message for him—that was just turned half-past 10 o'clock—since I heard of the circumstance I have noticed the house where Mrs. Emsley used to live, No. 9, Grove-road—I had not noticed it previously—I passed by that house about half-past 9 o'clock, or a few minutes later that morning—I went round into the Grove-road, and left a message for Mr. Piper, the plasterer, and after leaving there I walked on the other side of the way towards Bow station, undecided whether I should go home by bus or not—after I had walked a few paces towards the Bow-railway station I looked down the Bow-road, and in looking down the Bow-road I saw a tall man coming out of a garden there with some paper under his arm—whether it was three or four pieces I cannot be positive—he was coming out of a garden apparently about the number of the house, No. 9—I then returned, and walked a few paces towards the city of London, and as I was walking I looked down the Grove-road again, and saw the person coming towards the Mile-end-road or Bow-road, some people call it one and some the other—after that I crossed over the road, one door from the Grove-road, and then I made up my mind to go home—I was walking towards home, and had just turned the corner to go down the Grove-road when I met the party face to face, nearly in each other's arms—I said, "Hallo, what, are you in the paper line?"—he said, "Yes, "in a flurried manner (speaking in a faltering tone)—I thought it might be from my coming on him all of a

sudden—he said, "Yes, didn't you know that?"—I said, "No, I didn't know it; had I known it I could have given you a job, for I have got about 180 pieces of paper being hung"—he said, "Oh, yes, I have served my time at it"—"Well," I said, "I shall want some more done by and by, and the first job I have I know where you live, in Barnsley-street, Bethnal-green. "

COURT. Q. Then you knew the man? A. Yes, I knew him well, it was Mr. Rowland.

MR. BEST. Q. Did you give any information of this to any one? A. Not till some days afterwards—I told my sister-in-law—on the Saturday afternoon I went to Mr. Rose, the solicitor of Mrs. Emsley, and made him acquainted with it—that was the day after the murder was made known—I heard of it on the Friday, and on the Saturday I went and made him acquainted with it—he recommended me to go to Scotland-yard—I did not go that evening, but I went next morning, Monday; and gave information to Sergeant Tanner, and from that Sergeant Tanner and Inspector Thornton came to my house, and after that Inspector Kerrison, and I was summoned on the inquest, but was not examined. I gave in a written statement at the time to Sergeant Tanner.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. I don't know whether you were aware that there was a house being papered next door to the deceased's? A. No, I did not know anything about that—I did not even know that she lived there until after the affair—I do not know whether that was so or not—this was on the Tuesday morning, 14th August—I did not recognize Mr. Rowland until I came upon him as I have described—I did not know previously that he was a paper-hanger by trade—I only knew it from what he stated.

MICHAEL GAFFNET . I live at 7, Queen's-row, Cambridge-road, Bethnalgreen—I know the prisoner—he was doing work for me in August—I remember Tuesday, 14th August—he came to work for me on that day—he came about 1 o'clock—I had never seen him before the Monday when he came to look at the work.

Cross-examined by MR. SBRJBANT PARRY. Q. What time do you say he was working for you? A. It was about 1 o'clock on the Tuesday when he came—he had not been at work on the Monday for me—he only came to look at the work—I asked him when he would be there, so as I might clear the things out of the way for him, and he said he would be there on the Tuesday morning—he did not name the time, but he came about 1 o'clock in the day.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY in reply re-called

WILLIAM ROWLAND . I know James Stevenson the builder; I see him in Court—I did not see him in Grove-road on 14th August last—I was not near the place—several witnesses can prove that I was some two miles from there at the time, and the whole of the day—I did not come out of any house there—perhaps it may be necessary to explain that I saw Mr. Stevenson some time previous, nearly a week before, and I then had some paper under my arm—I have known him for some years, and I know he is a man labouring under some impressions, in fact, I have the impression that he was not quite right in his mind.

CAROLINE BRIMSON . I am single—I work in a laundry—I have an aunt who lodged at 33, Barnsley-street—Mrs. Musick used sometimes to attend upon her, she is an invalid—she is not bed ridden, but she was so for nine months—Mrs. Musick used to attend upon her—in consequence of Mrs. Musick going away, I went to Barnsley-street to attend upon my aunt—I had just left service—I went on the Tuesday—I do not know the day of the

month, but it was on the Tuesday as Mrs. Emsley was supposed to be murdered on the Monday—I am quite sure of that—I went there at 10 o'clock in the morning—I was there the whole of that day and the next, and have been there ever since—I know the two young men, the Mullins, I saw them there—I saw one on the Tuesday, the shortest one (Thomas)—the other one was not there at all on the Tuesday—he was there on the Tuesday'week; the following Tuesday—I remember the place being waterI washed—I was there at the time, because the prisoner borrowed my aunt's pail to do it with—the prisoner water-washed the place on the Thursday, not on the Tuesday, but Thursday—that was not the first time I had seen the prisoner there—I saw him on the Tuesday morning between 9 and 10 o'clock—I am quite sure the water-washing was on the Thursday.

Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. Were you attending upon your aunt at this time? A. Yes, I was principally engaged with my aunt during the day, I when I had nothing to do at the laundry—my aunt had the up stairs apartmeats—I was up and down—I did not go in and out of Mullins's room—I was never in his room in my life—he washed the passage—on the Thursday, it was a wash of a yellowish cast—1 did not notice whether it, was first white-washed on the Saturday.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Did Mullins do anything at all on the Tuesday in the way of water-washing? A. No.


NEW COUET—Thursday, October 25th, 1860.


Before Mr. Recorder.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-875
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

875. FREDERICK JOHNSTON (36), was indicted for that, he being the bailee of two bracelets, value 400l., did feloniously convert them to his own use.

MESSRS. GIFFARD and LEWIS conducted the Prosecution.

RICHARD BURBROOK . I am one of the assistants of Mr. Charles Frederick Hancock, jeweller, of Bond-street—in consequence of my wife saying something to me, I went to 10, Curson-street, Mayfair, about the 8th or 9th of August, and there saw the prisoner and his wife—they told me they wished to get some plate as they had none for use, and they asked me the best way to go about, to get it—I asked them whether they would like to have new or second-hand, and we arranged that I should get them some second-hand spoons and forks—I gave them an estimate of that and went away, saying that I should get the plate—I did nothing more that day—I afterwards called on them again the next day in consequence of a note I received from Mr. Johnston—I was out when the note arrived, and I called the next morning—I saw the prisoner and his wife on that occasion—they said they were going to have a dinner party in the evening, and wanted some plate for use, because I could not supply what they ordered before, in time enough; I agreed to lend them about four dozen spoons and forks to use for this dinner party—I took the plate myself—I next saw the prisoner in the evening of the same day that I took the plate; between 5 and 6 o'clock, at 39, Bruton-street—his wife was with him then—he said he should like to borrow some jewellery for her to wear at the dinner party, as we had previously been talking about hiring jewellery—I asked them what kind of ornaments they would like to have; head ornaments, bracelets, or necklaces

and they said they would have a bracelet and a necklace, which they selected from some I showed them—the prisoner said he was going to have a dinner party and some friends, and amongst them there would be a live counters, and he wished his wife to astonish the natives—I lent him these two bracelets (produced)—they are worth about 400l—when I gave the bracelets into the hands of Mrs. Johnston, I introduced her and Mr. Johnston to a Mr. Brook, in our house; and they agreed and perfectly understood that Mr. Brook was to have the bracelets returned to him at 1 o'clock the next day in Curzon-street; he was to fetch them—I told them the reason why Brook was to come, and not myself; that I was going out of town the next daythey knew that perfectly well—I next saw the prisoner after that at Marlborough-street police-court—I had in the meantime been to Wiesbaden—I started on the 6th—I think it must have been the 8th or 9th September that I arrived there—I there saw Mrs. Johnston—I did not say anything to her—I did not get the bracelets.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Your wife had known Mrs. Johnston some time, had she not? A. Yes—they had been intimate for some years—my wife made a remark to me about the plate, but she told me that Mrs. Johnston wished to see me on some business at Curzon-street—I know that Mrs. Johnston is connected with a highly respectable family—I have heard also that the prisoner is connected with a very respectable family, but I know nothing of him previous to this—when I first went there I took some expensive jewellery with me—I took several diamond rings; one very valuable, worth something like fifty guineas—I do not know that I put it on I the prisoner's finger; he tried it on, himself—I did not try to persuade him I to take it—I might have suggested to him that it should be booked to him, and that he had better keep it; but not with the intention of making him buy it—I do not recollect saying that I would book it to him—I cannot I swear that I did not say so—there was only one thing I thought he might I have bought; a little bracelet for his wife—I had some with me at about 20l. or 30l.—I did not offer to book a bracelet—the plate was to be paid for at Christmas; and to be supplied as soon as I could get it—I cannot swear I that I did or did not propose to him that a diamond ring should be booked to him—I proposed to him the same as to any other gentleman that I call on with goods—he said the ring was too expensive, but I never proposed to I him to book anything at all, except the plate—I should not have allowed him to have bought the ring unless he paid ready money for it—I could not let a man look out jewellery and plate like that at a first transaction—he was to have credit for the plate, but nothing more—that would amount to about 50l.—I would not have allowed him to have both; I would go beyond 50l.—no letter was written to me, asking me whether the plate was ready—I had a letter requesting me to call, as Mr. Johnston wanted to see me; and I did call—I took nothing at all with me then—I did not take any jewellery when I took the plate—in the course of the conversation about jewellery I said, "If Mrs. Johnston is going to a party, if you come down to our house I shall be happy to let you hire some jewellery": that is our business, we charge 1l. per cent.—it was on the next day, Friday, that they called and selected the bracelets—I was not in when the neck ornament was returned—that was worth thirty guineas—they had two bracelets and a neck ornament—the plate that lent was some plated and some silver—at a rough guess, the quantity I should think, would amount to about 15l., taking plate and silver together—I was not in when they were returned—Mr. Brook is here—when they called and looked at the bracelets and other

things, they did not propose to take one bracelet first, and I suggest that they had better have the two—I did not wish to dictate to them what they were to wear—they chose both bracelets—they did not choose first one and then another—I might have shown Mrs. Johnston five or six diamond tiaras—I showed her one worth about 1000l. or 1500l.—I do not recollect whether she said it would be too showy—I did not propose to her to hire it; they were merely shown to her as to anybody who would come into the shop, as a curiosity—Mr. Brook was there at the time I was showing them—I will swear there was no proposal that she should hire or borrow it—I will swear that I did not say, "I have known Mrs. Johnston a long time; I can manage these matters; and you shall have them without paying any per centage—Mr. Brook was present when they chose the things—there is a Mr. Dewling in the establishment—Mr. Brook showed me a letter that was written by Mrs. Johnston—I don't recollect showing it to Mr. Johnston's servant, in Curzon-street; I might have done so—I believe Mr. Lewis has the letter in his possession—if I showed a letter to the servant, purporting to be written by Mrs. Johnston to Mr. Brook, that must have been the letter—I did not say that I was aware that the bracelets had been taken back to the shop with the other plate, and had been hired at the shop from Mr. Brook again—I could not say anything of that kind for I was away from London—this (produced) is the book in which I made the entry of the bracelets when they were taken out—it is a book which we all use—Mr. Dewling is here—as a description of the things is entered, with the stock number and price on hire, every figure and letter is my writing—when the necklace was returned it was crossed out—I could not recollect the numher without referring to the stock-book—there is no price to that, because I could not recollect the price; the ticket had got torn off—the price is put to the other things, because I had the tickets before me and copied them without any trouble—I wrote these words, "on hire," at the bottom of this same entry—I wrote the whole of that entry—I did not scratch this part out—that was done in my absence; when the things were returned the next day—here are four here; one was a small chain with a separate number—it is not our way of doing business to make an entry here to show the time at which the articles were to be returned: we trust to people's words—we enter them on sale or return—everything in that book, nearly, is on sale or return—it is for memoranda of everything that occurs in the day—the date is quite sufficient for us—they are not on hire as long the party chooses to keep them—these articles were agreed to be lent for one night; for a dinner party—there is no memorandum that they were to be returned at one o'clock—we never make memoranda of that sort—they are booked in a day-book, but there are only the words, "See waste book," in that—this is the waste book, and it is the book in which we generally enter articles lent on hire—"on hire," and "on sale or return," I understand to be one and the same thing—all through the book you will find articles entered "on hire"—sometimes we write "lent" and sometimes "on hire"—I was not present when the bracelets were returned—I was out of England when the officer was at the pawnbroker's—I did not go to the house on the Tuesday, the night before Mr. Johnston was taken—I was in Belgium—I did not get the address in Wiesbaden, from the servant—I got it from Mr. Wetherall, an ironmonger, of Chapel-street, Mayfair, close by the prisoners; a man who supplied Mr. Johnston with ironmongery—he knew the address and supplied it to me—the only entry made by Dewling would be the crossing, the scratching out, upon the return of the two things; the others would be left open.

MR. GIFFABD. Q. What was the day of the month upon which these bracelets were handed to the prisoner? A. Friday, 10th August, between 5 and 6 o'clock in the evening. I left town on the 11th August, the next day and this entry was made by me—the person who gave me the address in Wiesbaden was an ironmonger who was in correspondence with them—I went to him several times to ask if he knew where Mr. and Mrs. Johnston had gone—I got the address, Poste restante, Carlsbad, which was of no me to me—that was written on an envelope which the servant gave me—I went to the ironmonger who was in correspondence with the prisoner—he gave me the address, Stein Hotel, Wiesbaden, and also showed me a letter which he had received with a cheque for a little bill—that was all which passed about the address—my wife has known the prisoner's wife, before the prisoner's wife's marriage—ever since her childhood—the prisoner's wife has been married to him since last March, I believe.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Did you find, after they had gone to Wiesbaden, the house at Curzon-street still furnished? A. Yes; with good furniture—it had been recently furnished—it was all there, except the furniture of one room, which had been taken away.

HENRY LUCAS TOPP . I am assistant to Mr. Attenborough of 33, Picadilly, pawnbroker—I know the prisoner—he has pledged various articles from time to time, at my master's shop—he pledged these two bracelets with me on, I think, 9th August—I have not the duplicate or my book with me—(The witness was directed to fetch them.) HENRY SMITH (Police-sergeant, A). On Tuesday, 11th September, I watched the prisoner's house, 10, Curzon-street—I was not able to see him there—I ultimately went to a coffee-shop in Davies-street—about half-past 5 o'clock in the evening of 12th September I went to Mr. Attenborough's shop—I took the prisoner into custody as he was leaving the shop—he was out on the pavement, just going to get into a cab that was waiting—I told him my name was Smith, that I was a sergeant of the detective police, and should apprehend him for stealing two bracelets, the property of Mr. Hancock—he said, "Cannot it be arranged?"—I told him I had no power over Mr. Hancock, and he must come to the station at Vine-street, close by—he handed me these two bracelets—they were wrapped up in paper in his hand—we then went back to Mr. Attenborough's—I asked Mr. Attenborough who was there, and the young man Topp, who took them in, to give me some particulars—they refused to do so—the prisoner was taken to the station and locked up—I searched him—before we got to the station Sergeant Robinson put his hand in the prisoner's coat-pocket and took out these two cases for the bracelets (produced)—I asked him if his name was Dimsdale, and he said, "No; my name is Johnston"—he was searched at the station—amongst other things I found upon him this passport (granted August 10th, 1860.), these two telegrams, and 77l. 10s. in money—I did not find various pawnbroker's duplicates; Robinson found those.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you sent for from Mr. Attenborough? A. Yes—a young man came at that very time—he is outside—I don't know his name—I do not know that he was sent from Mr. Attenborough's—I understood he came from Mr. Hancock's, but that I don't know—when I got there Porter, one of Hancock's men, was already arrived—he was talking to the prisoner at the time he was about to get into the cab—I had the jewellery from the prisoner—I am decidedly under the impression that I had it from the prisoner's own hand—I would sooner say that I did than that I did not—Porter is here—I had not been to the house in Curzon-street before

he was apprehended—I had been watching the house—I went to the servant afterwards, and told her that he was in custody—his child was at Curzon-street too; it remained there, I believe, all the time he was away, as far as I know—I had no communication at all with the servant.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Had it been ascertained before the 12th, that the bracelets were at Mr. Attenborough's? A. I believe it had, but I do not know it of my own knowledge—a warrant had been issued for the prisoner's apprehension—I had seen it on the 6th September—I do not know who it was that communicated with Messrs. Attenborough.

VEASEY ROBINSON (Police-sergeant, A). I searched the coffee-shop in Davies-street, as well as the prisoner's house in Curzon-street—at the house in Davies-street I found this tin box (produced) in the room that the prisoner had been occupying—I, did not see the prisoner there—the box contained a quantity of letters and pawnbroker's duplicates—some of those letters are directed to the name of Dimsdale, and some to the name of Johnston—these (produced) are some of the pawnbroker's duplicates that I found there.

Cross-examined Q. Is there not amongst them a letter from his banker's acknowledging the receipt of money? A. Yes—I believe there is—I do not think there are several of those letters sent from several correspondents to Weisbaden, to the prisoner—here is the letter of 17th August—(acknowledgeing the receipt of a draft for 20l.)

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Have you got the banker's book there? A. Yes—(produced)—here are no more letters directed to Wiesbaden.

ELLEN MURRAY . I am servant at the coffee-house, 25, Davieg-street—I know the prisoner—he came on 10th September and took a bed in the house—he occupied it two nights, Monday and Tuesday, the 10th and 11th—he brought with him a portmanteau, which the police afterwards saw—and also a tin box which the policeman has produced to-day.

EMMA HARLOW . I was in the prisoner's service in August last, at 10, Curzon-street, Mayfair—there was not a dinner party on Friday night 10th August—the prisoner and his wife left Curzon-street on the Sunday following the 10th—I remember some plate being brought there—it was not undone—it was left packed as it came, and returned packed as it was before—it was undone and taken out of the paper for me to look at, but it was not used—after my master left on Sunday, 12th August, I next saw him that day four weeks—I remember when he was taken by the policeman—I had seen him on the Sunday before he was taken on the Wednesday—he did not sleep at Curzon-street on either Sunday, or Monday, or Tuesday.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you been there some time? A. Yes, six months—during that time they have been living in Curzon-street; the house was newly furnished—when they went away the child was left with me—the address was left with me, in writing—I have not got the one that they left—it was left at Curzon-street somewhere—I do not know at all what became of it—I gave an address to Mr. Burbrook when he came; after Mr. Johnston had left—it was the post-office, Wiesbaden—I am sure of that—I gave it to him on an envelope; he did not take it away—I am quite positive that it was "the post-office, Wiesbaden"—I think that was a week after Mr. Johnston had left—I gave it to other people besides—all the people in the neighbourhood did not know Mr. Johnston's address—I gave it to anybody who applied for it; there was no concealment of it—I gave it to Mr. Wetherall—the bankers came while he was away—I did not give it to them; they did not ask for it—a dinner party was proposed on

10th August—they talked about having a dinner party many times—the prisoner had respectable people visit him; ladies of title—I don't remember that, on the night the jewels came, Mr. and Mrs. Johnston went out full dressed—Mrs. Johnston went out, but I cannot say whether she was dressed or not—they did not tell me at all what time they would return, or for about how long they were going—it was on the Sunday that I saw Mr. Johnston—I told him then that Hancock's people had been about the bracelets—the police-constables had not been at that time—I did not know that the police were in search of him—he brought his portmanteau and things to Curzon-street on the Sunday—it was after I told him that the people had been about the bracelets that he took them away—I knew that he was at Davies-street—I was waiting on Wednesday, expecting Mr. Johnston, from 4 o'clock till 6 in the evening—he had given me directions to wait—I was waiting by his directions from 4 till 6 in the evening, in Queen-street, Oxford-street—on Monday 10th, and Tuesday 11th, after Mr. Johnston returned, people came to me from Hancock's—Mr. Thomas, one of the assistants, came to me—I went to Hancock's on the 10th, at night, and there saw Mr. and Mrs. Hancock, and Mr. Thomas and another person—I told Mr. Hancock at that time, that they would have the bracelets on Wednesday—I can't say what he said to me upon that—he asked me whether I was sure, and I said I was quite sure they would be there on the Wednesday—on the following day, Tuesday, Hancock's man again came to Curzon-street—I told Mr. Hancock that he would have the bracelets on Wednesday evening, in consequence of what Mr. Johnston had told me—Mr. Burbrook showed me a letter addressed to Mr. Brook—Mr. Johnston had given me that letter to post to Mr. Brook—I can't remember the day when Mr. Burbrook came; I think it was about a week before Mr. Johnston was arrested—that letter was posted by me on the Monday morning after they left home on the Sunday—I have received some money for my own use, from the prisoner, while he was away—I know that other people also received money from him while he was away; the gentleman told me himself—I saw the draft brought by the banker's clerk—he wanted an indorsement upon it—there were no complaints at all from the tradespeople there of their not being paid by the prisoner—there were additions made to the furniture of the house just immediately before they left, and while they were away—pictures were brought from his mother's, and hung on the walls—it is a large house.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. How long had you been with them? A. Six months, up to the time I came away, which was about a fortnight after Mr. Johnston was arrested—they had been in Curzon-street all that time—I do not know what the prisoner's occupation was—part of the furniture was paid for—it was not Mr. Keen who furnished the house, it was Mr. Buckland—Mr. Buckland said that it was partly paid for—I do not know how much that was—a sovereign was sent to me—I told Mr. Hancock himself about the bracelets being delivered on the Wednesday night—his people came five times—I did not mention to any of them that my master was in London—they asked me—I said that I was not going to tell them where he was.

H. L. TOPP (continued). The 10th August was the date when the bracelets were pledged—I heard of the original application to Mr. Attenborough whether there were such bracelets in his possession—it was discovered on Monday, 10th September, that they were in his possession—they were pledged just about dusk; 6 or 7 o'clock, I should say—the prisoner and his wife together pledged them—105l. was lent on them—a

piano and several articles of furniture were pledged for 40l. on 21st July, also a watch chain and brooch for 10l., and on 25th July, six plated covers and a dressing case for 10l.—I was present when the prisoner came on 12th September—we had received notice from the police, on Monday, 10th September, that the bracelets were stolen.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you produce the tickets? A. Yes—that is the second ticket—I have not the first—on 10th August, the prisoner and his wife brought those bracelets and pledged them—on the following morning, 11th August, the prisoner came alone and said he wanted to take out those and substitute furniture—I sent the bracelets to Curzon-street, and sent a van to bring back furniture—the young man waited there some time and then brought back the bracelets again—that young man is not here—they were sent up about 11 o'clock in the morning—I received them back between 1 and 2; I am not quite certain as to time, but he was away two or three hours—in the afternoon of the same day, Mrs. Johnston called again, and then I advanced a further sum of 20l.; she said that would be sufficient, and then I made out this ticket—I knew Mr. Johnston's address pretty well—when he came on 12th September, I sent to Hancock's directly—I asked him to wait—I told him there had been something unpleasant with respect to the bracelets, and my duty was to communicate with Mr. Atteuborough, but I sent to Mr. Hancock—the prisoner waited till Hancock's young man came—I did not deliver the bracelets to the prisoner; I kept them till the young man came—the money was paid—I then gave the bracelets to the prisoner, in the presence of Hancock's man—I cannot say whether Hancock's man then proposed that the prisoner should go to Hancock's—I did not hear it said to the prisoner that they had been put to considerable expense going over to Wiesbaden; I have heard it since—the prisoner remained perhaps half an hour with me at that time—I did not see him taken by the officer; that was outside—he went outside with Hancock's man—the officers came after Hancock's young man came; Hancock's young man came into the shop where we were—the police came, and they all went out together—the prisoner went out with them, and was taken into custody outside.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. You said you knew Mr. Johnston's address, I suppose you mean 10, Curzon-street? A. Yes; not his address abroad.

JURY. Q. When the second advance was made was there a second ticket issued? A. Yes—it was a second pledging, and is signed by Mrs. Johnston alone.

COURT. Q. Were they ever taken out of your possession? A. Only partially by my man—the interest was taken for that day, before the second ticket was made out, and then they were repledged—the interest was paid afterwards when he redeemed the bracelet—there was some paid at the time—I am not quite certain what interest was paid when the 125l. was advanced—I charged them a certain amount of interest—I did not charge them the month's interest—the sum will appear from our books—I paid 18l. 15s.

JURY. Q. Had you a right to a month's interest? A. Yes; but that was including all expenses, and there was the expense of the van which was sent for the furniture—I put the interest and expenses together, and made a reduction on account of it being so short a time.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Has the prisoner ever redeemed anything except the bracelets? A. No.

COURT. Q. When the prisoner brought these things, did you tell him that he might have more money on them? A. I did, and he declined to

take any more—that was when he first pledged them—I did not mention how much I was ready to advance upon them—I told him he could have considerably more than 100l.—but he said that he did not wish more that evening, he only wanted 100l.—it was 105l. that he had—I offered more than 120l. on the first occasion.

THOMAS EDWARD STUBBS . I am a messenger to the Court of Bankruptcy—I produce the proceedings in bankruptcy in relation to a person named Frederick Dimsdale, dated 6th May, 1854—he never surrendered.

Cross-examined. Q. Matters were arranged and the assignees have taken no proceedings against him; do you know that? A. They never knew where to find him, he left the country—I should not know if a warrant had been applied for—that would be applied for at Guildhall—no application has been made to my knowledge, to the Bankruptcy Court, to treat him as an absconding debtor—he was an attorney—his clerk is a clerk in the Court of Bankruptcy—no effort was made, that I know of, to find him from his own clerk—since these proceedings were pending he has again been made bankrupt—I do not know that the assets in the present bankruptcy are described as 1,200l. and the debts 600l.—both sets of proceedings are here; the 1854 and 1860—they are now blended together—the petitioning creditor now is John James Keen, 161, City-road, Middlesex, house decorator—he proved for 212l. 2s.—there is not any note here of the amount of assets; it is not usual to do so.

WILLIAM LUND . I am a manufacturer—I know the prisoner under the name of Frederick Dimsdale—I did not prove under his first bankruptcy—the amount of my claim against him was 10,000l.—I endeavoured to find him after the adjudication in bankruptcy, and was not able—I was not aware of any arrangement with the assignees.

Cross-examined. Q. You did not prove at all? A. No—I do not know that there was a dispute between the prisoner and his mother about some deeds—I brought an action against his partner—I got a verdict, but got nothing—I am not aware that the prisoner bought a partnership in the City, or that after purchasing it he was taken in by his partner.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. What was the 10,000l. for? A. Mortgage on real property, and the deeds were deposited with me—10,000l. in money was handed over by me to him—the instructions were given to his partner, Mr. Boyd—I never had anything to do with the prisoner—the partner was sued by me—the suit was for negligence.

CHARLES VALLANCEY LEWIS . I am a solicitor of 2, Raymond's-buildings—on 11th September, I think it was, I met the prisoner at the office of my client—I advanced him 215l. on a bill of sale for furniture, I believe, in Curzon-street; I did not see it—I have the bill of sale here—(This was a mortgage by the prisoner of the whole of the property in Curzon-street, with a provision for its redemption in two or three months).

Cross-examined. Q. I suppose the furniture and effects have been valued? A. Yes—I should think they are worth 150l. beyond this, and I am able to speak for my client's practice—I mean he always leaves a margin for himself—I can't say whether Mr. Keen, the petitioning creditor in the present bankruptcy, has been assisting him in raising the money—I did not see a gentleman with him—I ascertained that the whole of the prisoner's interest in No. 10, Curzon-street, including the lease and furniture, were worth about 1,100l. and I believe immediately these proceedings are over, there are numerous parties anxious to take the house and furniture.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Have you seen the lease? A. No; it is in the possession

of Mr. Day, for 200l.—Mr. Willoughby, of Clifford's Inn, has offered 1,000l. for it.

GEORGE BROOK (Not examined in chief).

Cross-examined. Q. Were you present when the prisoner and his wife came to the shop? A. Yes, but I did not attend to them—I saw Mr. Burbrook attending to them—he did not, to my knowledge, on that occasion offer a tiara of diamonds to the prisoner and his wife—Mr. Burbrook was going out of town on the following Saturday, and requested me to go for the plate and things at 1 o'clock—I went on the Saturday—to the best of my belief it was between 1 and 2 o'clock—I was not present in the shop when the plate was brought back, Mr. Dewling was—he is here—I don't know what passed between them and Mr. Dewling—whatever was done on that occasion was done by Mr. Dewling—I received this letter (produced) on Monday, 13th August, from Mrs. Johnston—I went to Curzon-street on the day that I received that letter, and inquired for them, according to Mr. Burbrook's request—I had gone before on the 11th—I did not communicate with Mr. Dewling when I received that letter, I did with Mr. Brook—I knew who took the necklace and bracelets in, because Mr. Dewling told me so—Mr. Dewling, I believe, saw that letter—I am positive that it was after the receipt of this letter that I went to Curzon-street and was told that she had gone abroad—I believe it was after I received the letter—I know nothing of any steps being taken between the receipt of this letter on 13th August, and 6th September, for the recovery of the property.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Mr. Burbrook went out of town the next day? A. Yes, the 11th—he came back on the following Monday fortnight—Mr. Hancock was attending to his business in Bruton-street—he was very ill—he was in and out of town—I believe the warrant was applied for the very day after he came back again.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Did you get any reply from Mr. Burbrook? A. Yes; I communicated to him that I had not received the bracelets.

WILLIAM DEWLING (Not examined in chief).

Cross-examined. Q. Are you in the service of Mr. Hancock still? A. Yes; Mrs. Johnston brought back to me the plate and the necklace on 11th August, before 1 o'clock, but not the bracelets—I turned to the book and erased the articles while she was there—she said that she wished to retain the bracelets for a few days longer, as she had an idea that Mr. Johnston would give her one of them—she did not produce them, and ask my sanction—I said that I knew nothing of the transaction; that Mr. Brook, who managed Mr. Burbrook's business for him in his absence, was out, but I would mention it to him on his return—I do not know whether she came in a cab—I have no recollection of my taking the plate and jewellery from the cab into the shop; to the best of my belief I did not—I did not take the bracelets and other things into the shop and return them to Mrs. Johnston—I was not sent for to Marlborough-street by the prisoner—I was examined for the prosecution by Mr. Lewis—Mr. Wontner asked me some questions, and was going to ask me more but the Magistrate objected to it—I was then on behalf of Mr. Hancock—Mr. Wontner could not have sent for me, as I was in Court all the time.

ADOLPHUS PORTER (Not examined in chief).

Cross-examined. Q. Did you go in consequence of a message from Mr. Attenborough? A. Yes—I saw the prisoner in the shop—the jewels were not given by the prisoner to me—I believe he gave them, outside, to the police constable—I said I knew nothing of the transaction; if he liked to

walk with me to Mr. Hancock's—I did not tell him he must settle it—I told him there was about 60l. or 70l. incurred in expenses, but that I knew, nothing of the transaction—I had no particular object in telling him that—I knew Mr. Burbrook had gone abroad after him, and that there was Mr. Lewis and several gentlemen employed in the case, and I had no doubt that the expenses would come to that—it was my own suggestion—he went willingly with me to Hancock's—it was just outside the door that he was taken in custody.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Did he say anything to you about settling the matter? A. He wished to settle it—when I told him the expenses he said, "I will pay you willingly"—that was all—I told him I had nothing at all to do with it—he wished me to take the bracelets back, and let him go; I said I knew there were great expenses incurred, and that I could not do it.

COURT. Q. Was that before or after he was taken in custody? A. Before; while we were in the shop.

CHARLES HANCOCK . I first heard of this transaction about the bracelets when I was down at Brighton, on the day before the warrant was taken out—I then came up from Brighton, and on my way to my house I stopped at Mr. Lewis's office, and gave him instructions—a warrant was applied for, and obtained the next day.

Cross-examined. Q. When did you hear that the bracelets were in the hands of Mr. Johnston? A. The night before I came up to London—I have been ill for the last two or three months, and they did not trouble me with anything—I do not delegate my authority to anybody—the young men frequently came to Brighton to me, but my wife understands the business as well as I do, and she was at home—I don't think she knew it long before.


22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-876
VerdictsGuilty > with recommendation

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876. WALTER PALFREY (22) , Stealing 1 ring, value 70l., the property of Charles Frederick Hancock, his master; and SARAH STEINMAYER (40) , Feloniously receiving the same.

MESSRS. GIFFARD and LEWIS conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM DEWLING . I am in the prosecutor's employment—oh 12th May a lady brought a ring, value about 70l. and gave it to me to have one of the opals replaced—it had a diamond in the centre, and an opal on each side, one of which was out—this is it (produced)—I gave it to Rutter, one of our workmen, to have one of the opals re-set, and the other re-polished.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. I believe the prisoner was employed in the back factory? A. Yes, that is quite separate from the front shop, but he has been in the habit of coming in occasionally, though his duties are behind.

STEPHEN RUTTER . I work for Mr. Hancock—I received this ring from Dewling—one of the opals was out—I took the other out, and had them repolished and re-set—I then returned the ring to Mr. Hancook, by Coomber, sealed up in a parcel—that was about 18th May.

Cross-examined. Q. Where did you work on that ring? A. At my shop in Golden-square.

THOMAS ELLIS . I am in the service of Mr. Rutter—I received a parcel from him—I do not remember the date—I took it to Mr. Hancock's, but do not remember who I gave it to—I do not think I placed it on the counter—I generally give it to somebody in the shop.

GEORGE FOLEY . I am a dealer in jewellery, and live at 29, Little Pulteneystreet—about 15th September Steinmayer came into my shop and asked me

if I would purchase a diamond—I said, "Yes," and asked her to show it to me—she said she had not got it with her; she would bring it in the afternoon—she came in the afternoon and showed it to me; this is it (produced); it appears as if it would fit this ring, but I know nothing of the ring—she asked 30l. for the diamond—I asked her who she got it from—she said that it was a family relic—I asked her address, and she gave me this card (produced) it is her right name and address—I went out to ascertain the value of it—a pawnbroker offered me 25l. for it, and I went back and gave her 25l.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you sure it fits the ring? A. (Trying it) Yes, it does—I had not known her before—she came about 11 o'clock in the morning, and again at 3.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Did you sell it to Messrs. Drayson? A. Yes, for 37l.

CHARLES DISSAN DRAYSON . I am in the employ of Dray son and Burwash, of Brewer-street, Golden-square—I produce this diamond from them—I bought it.

SAMUEL FERDINANDO STANLEY . I am a watch and clock maker, of 4l., Princes-street, Leicester-square—about 15th September Steinmayer came to me to sell this ring and two opals—I asked her where she got it from—she said that a young man, a jeweller, who lodged with her owed her some rent, instead of which she had taken it of him, as it was all she could get, and she valued it at 1l.—I asked her if she would leave it for an hour for me to get the opals valued—she said, "Yes"—when she returned I gave her half a sovereign for the ring and opals—the opals are worth 5s.6d. each and the gold 7s. 6d.—she gave the name of Jones, 20, Thane-street, near Oxfordstreet.

FREDERICK WILLIAMSON . I am a detective sergeant of Scotland-yard—on 26th September, I went to Steinmayer's house, 5, Westmoreland-street, Marylebone—I saw her and asked her whether she had offered a diamond and opal ring for sale, she said that she had found it near Wimpole-street, wrapped in a piece of paper—I asked her what she had done with it—she-said that she had sold the diamond to Mr. Foley of Pulteney-street, and the opals and ring at a shop close by—I went With her to Mr. Foley and to Mr. Stanley—I then went to Mr. Hancock's, and saw Palfrey—I asked him whether he was aware that his mother had a diamond and opal ring; he said, "Yes"—I asked him whether he was aware how she became possessed of it—he said that he believed she had found it—I said, "If she says you gave it to her, is that the truth?"—after some hesitation he said, "I did not steal it, I found it in the closet in the factory among the paper"—I took him to the station—I afterwards searched the mother's premises, and found a tin cash-box containing 2l. 10s. and a 5l. note, endorsed G. Foley, 29, Little Pulteney-street—I opened it with a key which I found on Palfrey—I also found 4l. 10s. in other parts of the house.

Cross-examined. Q. Did not Palfrey add that he gave it to his mother? A. Yes.

Steinmayer's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows:—"I am quite innocent; when my son brought the ring home to me he told me he had found it in Bond-street; I kept it for some mornings and looked in the paper for some advertisement about it; I then took it to Mr. Harris's assistant, and asked him if it was valuable, he said it was a diamond; he asked me how I came possessed of it, and I told him I found it in Wimpolestreet. I did not like that my son should be found guilty, was the cause of my saying I found it; if I had been aware that he had brought it from Mr.

Hancock, I would have made him take it back instantly. I only took it Mr. Harris's to know the value of it."

GUILTY .—Strongly recommended to mercy by the Jury and Prosecutor,— Confined Four Months each.

THIRD COURT.—Thursday, October 25th, 1860.


22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-877
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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877. WILLIAM BROWN (38) , Stealing 1 ring, value 1l., 1 chain, value 7l., also 1 ring, value 2l., 2 boxes, value 1l., brooch, value 1l., the property of Christopher Walton, his master; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .—Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor.— Confined Twelve Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-878
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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878. THOMAS WILLIAM THAME (39) , Embezzling the sums of 7s. 6d. and 10s. 6d., the property of Susannah Watson, his mistress; to which he PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

There was another indictment against the prisoner.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-879
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment > penal servitude

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879. ELIZABETH ANDERSON (26), and ELIZA BROWN (23) , Stealing 1 watch, value 5l., the property of John Lindsay, from his person.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN LINDSAY . I am an engineer, and live in Cumberland-street, Roman-road, Bamsbury—I was in Newgate-street on 2d October, about half-past 10 o'clock at night with a friend—the prisoners spoke to us first and we all, four went into a public-house and had some gin—I was sober when I left—I had a watch in my fob—we all four went into Ivy-lane—I was with Anderson and my friend walked with Brown—I felt something against my trousers—I thought it was Anderson's hand, and I instantly missed my watch—I said to my friend, "I have missed my watch and Brown has got it"—I said that because I saw Anderson hand something to Brown, which I supposed to be the watch—I told my friend to catch hold of her, and I called a policeman—we kept the two women till the policeman came—Be took them; he showed me my watch, this is it—when I got it the ring was off; it appeared to have been twisted off the guard by force.

Cross-examined by MR. SHARPE, Q. How do you know this watch? A. I know the name of the maker—I have had it eight years I should think—I am not married—I had had some drink before I met these women; I would not say how much—I was not in another public-house with these women—I did not go into one in Ivy-lane—I only went into one—we had not three half-pints of gin—I paid for one quartern—I can't tell how much I drank—I can't say was sober when I came out—I was not quite drunk—the reason I went in was my friend had a quarreling with another man and I took him away to prevent their quarreling—I can't tell how long we stayed in the public-house—Anderson did not say to me when we came out, "You had better take care of your watch"—she never mentioned it—my friend's name is Harley—he is not here—I had the chain of my watch in my pocket.

Brown. Q. When we came up were not you fighting? A. No; my friend had not a black eye—you were not with me first by yourself.

MR. COOPER. Q. How did you drink the gin? A. I had mine in cold water in a tumbler—I can't say how the others had it

MICHAEL CANNOVAN (City-policeman, 223). About a quarter before 11 o'clock that night, I was in Paternoster-row—I heard a noise in Ivy-lane, I went towards it, and saw the prosecutor struggling with Anderson; he told me she had stolen his watch—I said, "Is there another woman?"—he said, "Yes," and pointed the way she was gone—I told him to hold Anderson, and I ran after Brown—I stopped her as she was at the corner going into Paternoster-row—I asked her what she had done with the watch—she said she knew nothing about it—about that time the prosecutor and Anderson came up, and I saw Anderson reach out her hand under Brown's shawl—Brown reached her hand towards Anderson's—I caught Brown's hand and the watch was in it—she struggled very violently but I took it out of her I hand—this is it.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you see Anderson put her hand under the shawl of Brown? A. Yes; and Brown stretched out her hand, and I took her hand with the watch in it—the prisoners might have been drinking possibly—the prosecutor appeared to know what he was doing.

Brown. Q. You kicked me violently. A. No I did not.

COURT to JOHN LINDSAY. Q. Was Anderson the worse for liquor? A. No; I don't think so.


BROWN GUILTY .— Confined twelve Months.

Anderson was further charged with having been before convicted.

EDWARD JOSEPH DUDLEY (City-policeman, 258). I produce a certificate (Read: "Central Criminal Court, September, 1858. Ann Leather convicted of stealing a shawl having been before convicted.—Confined Two Years.")—Anderson is the person.

GUILTY.— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-880
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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880. WILLIAM WELLS (26) , Stealing 1 cash-box, 70 sovereigns, and a 50l. note, the property of William Gordon, in the dwelling-house of James Andrew Jarman.

MR. LAXTON conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY JAMES WARD . I am cashier to Messrs. White & Co. bankers—I paid Mr. Gordon, on 28th June, 100 sovereigns and this 50l. bank-note (looking at it).

THOMAS GORDON . I reside at Stanley-gardens, Notting-hill—On 30th June I was staying at Mr. Jarman's, 17, Hanover-square—I had a drawing-room and bed-room there—I had a cash-box there—I opened it on 29th June; that was the last I saw of it—I placed in it a pocket-book—the box contained about seventy or eighty sovereigns and a 50l. note, which I had received two days before at the banker's, and some valuable papers—I locked it and left it on a cabinet in the drawing-room about 9 o'clock—I went to bed about 11 o'clock—next morning, the 30th, I went into the drawing-room about 9 o'clock, and missed the cash-box—I made inquiries about it—the prisoner was waiter in the house—I rang the bell and he answered it—I asked him if he knew where my cash-box was—he said,"No"—I did not mention at that moment that there was any money in the box—I told the prisoner to make inquiries about it—I cannot say whether the prisoner had seen me open the box the evening before, but he had seen me open it one or two days before—he had seen me open it many times, and I had taken money out of it to pay bills—I have never seen it since.

JANE FERRIER . I live at 31, Shaftesbury-place, Aldersgate-street—on 30th June I was in the employ of Mr. Jarman, 17, Hanover-square, as a Waitress—Mr. Gordon was staying there—he occupied the drawing-room—the prisoner was waiter there—it was his duty to lay the breakfast cloth in the drawing-room, and he did so that morning about 8 or half-past 8 o'clock—I had dusted that room that morning at five minutes past 7 o'clock; I then saw Mr. Gordon's cash-box on the sideboard—I dusted it and left it where it was—I put on it a tumbler and a nosegay—at a little after 9 o'clock the prisoner came down to me, and said that Mr. Gordon wanted his box—I said, "What box? I don't know anything about a box"—he then went up stairs again—he came down again in about five minutes, and said it was his cash-box—I said, "I will go and speak to him"—I went up and the prisoner went up with me—Mr. Gordon said, "Do you know anything about my box?"—I then looked and missed the box—I said, "I left it there at 7 o'clock this morning"—the prisoner was there and he heard that—he did not say anything—Mr. Gordon said there was 75l. in it and a 50l. note—he said, "I would give 20l. if you could find it for me"—I said I could not find it for I did not know anything about it—it has never been found.

JAKES ANDREW JARMAN . I am a private hotel keeper, of 17, Hanoversquare—on 30th June the prisoner was in my service as waiter—he went by the name of Jones—he had been with me eight or ten days—at that time Mr. Gordon was occupying my drawing-room—I had never seen this cashbox—the prisoner came down to me, and said, "Mr. Gordon wants his tin box"—I said I knew nothing about the box—the prisoner then came down and said Mr. Gordon wanted to speak to me—I went to him, and in conesquence of what he said, I went to the police-station—I discharged the prisoner—he came to me about an hour after I had been to the police-station and said, "Give me my wages, it is very unpleasant to stop here now"—I said I would not do so—he asked me again, and I said I would not—I did not pay him; I discharged him without—I said, "I think you have got the box"—he said he knew nothing about it—he was sent away about 6 o'clock in the evening.

WILLIAM JOHN LIDDIMAN . I am manager to Mr. Duplex, a jeweller, 52, Cheapside—on 30th August the prisoner came to our shop—he asked if could change him a 50l. note if he bought a watch which was in the window, marked six guineas—I said, "Let me look at the note; what is the number?"—I looked, it was No. 81844, of the Bank of England—I asked him if it was his own—he said it was—I wrote on a bit of paper for my assistant to make inquiries at the bank, and I kept the prisoner in conversation with me—two ladies and a gentleman came in, and the prisoner said he would step across the way—he went and came back, and in the meantime Russell, the officer, came and took him.

GEORGE RUSSELL (Policeman). On 30th August, at half-past 12 o'clock, I went to the last witness's shop and saw the prisoner—I told him I was a detective police-officer, and that the 50l. note he had offered was a stolen one—that he had no occasion to answer me unless he chose—I then asked him who he was and where he got the note—he gave his name, "William Wells 34, Strand," and said that he was a piano-forte player; not a maker—I asked him how he got the note—ho said, "On a bet at the Derby"—he said he did not know the man's name, but he knew him by seeing him there—I asked him where he was when he received the note, and he said he did not know—I took him to the station, and he was asked what part of the house

he lived in—he first said he did not know, and then he said in the gariet parlour—this is the note.

HENRY JAMES WOOD (re-examined). This is the note I gave to Mr. Gordon.

Prisoner's Defence. With regard to the cash-box, on my going there that morning I found the door open, and I went and spoke to the waitress. I afterwards went up stairs and saw Mr. Gordon. He asked about the box; I knew nothing about it. I had no opportunity of stealing it or of concealing it whatever. I am perfectly innocent of it The note was given to me by a man I know, but I do not know his name. Being confused at the moment. I said I got it on a bet at the Derby. I had two witnesses, but I do not know their address.

GUILTY .— Three Years' Penal Servitude.

Before Mr. Recorder.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-881
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

881. RICHARD JEFFREYS (50), and SAMUEL DEVINE (55) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of George Richard Wallis, and stealing therein 14 gallons of gin, value 8l., his property.

MR. BRIERLY conducted the Prosecution.

ALBERT STANDEN (Policeman, H 214). On the morning of 25th September, about half-past 2 o'clock, I was in Fleet-street, Bethnal-green—I saw both the prisoners by the cellar flap of the Ram and Magpie public-house—I saw Devine with the cellar flap in his hand—there was no part of his person in the cellar—I had not seen him before—the prisoners looked and saw me and came towards me, they were at first about forty yards from me—Devine came on the same side as I was, and within half a yard of me—I turned my bull's-eye on his face and I saw distinctly that it was he—I let him pass me and I went to the cellar flap—I saw it had been removed—I then ran back and saw both the prisoners together, they were returning to come back—they went to a public-house, the King's Head—I saw them both go in and I went down in front of the public-house and stood in a door way—I saw Jeffreys come out every two or three minutes, he looked one way and another and then the landlord told them to come out that he might close his house—when Jeffrey came out, he looked about to see if he could see me, and he went back to the cellar flap again—I went towards him and he immediately made his way up Church-street—I followed him and took him in custody—when he went to the flap he stayed two or three minutes—I disturbed him and Devine walked away—I took Jeffreys to the station—then went to the public-house and saw the flap had been moved—I saw the landlord and went inside but could not see any one—I was ten minutes before I could get in—I went to the back but I could see no one—there were two bolts to the cellar flap—they had been drawn and the flap had been forced open—my brother officer took Devine about a week afterwards—I am satisfied he was the man.

Cross-examined by MR. PATER. Q. How far is the Queen's Head from the Ham and Magpie? A. About fifty yards—I had not seen the prisoners earlier than 2 o'clock in the morning—the second time I saw them they appeared to be returning to the place—I know the Red Lion public-house; Mr. Evans is the landlord—I will swear I have not seen Devine in that public-house since the robbery—I don't know that he has been in that public-house since the robbery was committed—the Red Lion is about a hundred yards from the Ram and Magpie—I saw the prisoners at the cellar flap—I let them pass, for I did not know at that time that anything had;

been moved—I saw both the prisoners come out of the Queen's Head when the house was closed by the landlord—I did not raise an outcry when they came out—I did not say anything to the landlord—I never saw the landlord after he closed the house—I thought it was not necessary to speak to him—I followed Jeffreys—I chiefly looked at Devine—the officer is here who took him—I was present when the charge was made against him—I did not say a word to Devine when I saw him leave the public-house.

Jeffreys. Q. When I first left where was I? A. You were coming towards me, on the opposite side—you went to the top of the street; you were both together when I came back—after taking you to the station, I went back to the public-house.

MR. BRIERLY. Q. Was your attention sufficiently occupied in taking one prisoner? A. Yes; that was as much as I could do.

GEORGE RICHARD WALLIS . I keep the Ram and Magpie in Fleet-street, Bethnal-green—on the morning of 25th September, I was called up by the last witness and went in the cellar; I saw the spirits had been moved—there were marks of a boot or shoe, and some buttons of trousers were found—the value of the spirits which had been moved was about 10l.—the back part of my house was open and there was a man in the cellar—he rushed up the cellar stairs, broke the lock off the cellar door, unbolted the back door, got out and got away; this was at the back of the house, but the flap was at the front.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you find marks in the cellar? A. Yes; Devine had been at my house two or three times—I don't know whether he had been at the Queen's Head—Devine has been in my house since this for a short time—the officer had the opportunity of seeing him—I don't know that he saw him.

Jeffreys. Q. Did you ever see me in your house? A. Never in my life.

WILLIAM WYER EVANS . I am landlord of the Red Lion, at the corner of Hunt-street—I remember Devine being at my house on 24th or 25th September, I am not positive which—he came first about 9 or 10 o'clock, and was there again at half-past 12 or a quarter before 1; it was on the 24th—I have a coal club at my house—it is always on a Monday—when Devine left, I believe his wife was with him and a person named Taylor—I should think my house is two or three hundred yards from the Ram and Magpie.

Cross-examined by MR. BRIERLY. Q. Are you sure it was on the 24th? A. I am positive—the coal club meets every week—this might not have happened the week before—he paid his money that night—I saw him tender his money—I did not notice whether he walked away—I saw them all sitting there—I think they had two or three pints of porter at my house.

COURT. Q. When was your attention called to this? A. About a week after wards, or more than that—it was a week ago that I received the subpoena.

ELIZABETH TAYLOR . I am married, and live at 4, Sarah's-place, Huntstreet—on the night of 24th September, I was going to have a pint of beer and met Devine and his wife—he said, "Come and have a drop of porter"—we went to the Red Lion—I went home with them which is only across the way—it was then 1 o'clock, and when I got into my bed-room it was a quarter-past 1—Devine was very much in liquor so that he could not pull his boots off—he asked his wife and she could not, and she asked me to do it—I left them at a quarter-past 1; when I left they were preparing for bed—this is Mr. Devine's book of his coal club.

Cross-examined. Q. How did this book come into your possession? A. The secretary gave it to his wife and she gave it to me last week, to show that he was there that night—I know nothing of the writing in it—it is not on this book that I found my belief that this was on the 24th, but then was a Friend-in-need meeting for a poor man who lay dead, and his children were badly off—I saw Mr. Devine go to the place to pay the money—I did not see the money paid.

COURT. Q. When did you hear of Devine being taken? A. The next morning after he was taken—I did not know he was going before the Magistrate—I went to Worship-street voluntarily as a witness—I was examined as a witness—I have the subpoena here; I was examined and gave evidence—when I went to the Bed Lion it was between 9 and 10 o'clock.

SARAH JONES . I live at 9, Church-street, Mile-end New-town—on the night of 24th September, I went to the Red Lion, and came away between '12 and 1 o'clock—I believe there was a coal club held there—I heard Devine's wife say that he paid some money—I did not see him leave; I left him there as near 1 o'clock as I can recollect—when I got home it was a quarter-past 1. NOT GUILTY .

NEW COURT.—Friday, October 26th, 1860.


Before Mr. Recorder.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-882
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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882. GEORGE WOODLEY (19) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Owen Richard Bollan, with intent to steal.

MR. PLATT conducted the Prosecution.

MARY MARTHA BOLLAN . I am the wife of Owen Richard Bollan, a waiter, of 36, Southampton-buildings. On the night of 30th September, about 2 o'clock, I was in bed, and was awoke by somebody opening our bed-room door—I said "Who is there?" and received no answer—I awoke Mr. Bollan—he called out very loudly "Who is there?" and sat up in bed—I heard somebody run up stairs very fast, and heard a noise which, I think, was the second landing window shutting down—it opens on to some tiles—it was closed at dusk—the house is in the parish of St. Andrew.

OWEN RICHARD BOLLAN . I am a waiter, and was in bed with my wife—she awoke me, and I heard footsteps going up stairs—I put on my trousers; went out into Chancery-lane, gave an alarm, and two policeman came and searched the house—I saw three lucifers on the staircase and some whitewash on the landing window—the police took the lucifers.

FREDERICK POOLE (Policeman, A 300). On 30th September, about 2 o'clock in the morning, I was called to 36, Southampton-buildings—I searched the house, and saw some marks of whitewash on the window cill of the second-floor landing—I found the prisoner in a coal hole next door—his clothes were marked with whitewash—he said that he came there to sleep—I searched him, and found on him a quantity of matches (produced)—they resemble those which I saw found in the house—they are common blue matches—the whitewash had come from the walls of No. 38 and 39.

GEORGE FELTON (Police-inspector, F). I went to 36, Southampton-buildings, and found marks of whitewash on the cill of the landing window—I examined the walls next door, and two other walls—they had been recently whitewashed, and there were marks on each side, as if a person had got over the mews—I found a ladder in No. 37, leaning against the wall of No. 36,

by which a person could get on the closet, and then get in at the window quite easily—here is a plan of the building (produced)—he must have got over three walls—I found whitewash on the front of his trousers, and on his knees, elbows, sleeves, waistband and waistcoat, precisely of the same colour as that on the wall.

JOHN LOOKER (Policeman, F 139). I examined Mrs. Bollan's bed-room, and found these three lucifers (produced), which exactly correspond with those found on the prisoner—they have been lighted—there were some marks on the window cill.

Prisoner's Defence. I think it very hard that because a few common matches were found on me, that I should be convicted of such a thing—I had had them for days—no tools were found upon me—I never went into the house.

GUILTY .—He was further charged with having been before convicted.

WILLIAM STRATTON (Policeman, N 200). I produce a certificate (Read: Central Criminal Court, August, 1858; George Peek, convicted of burglary; Confined Eight Months)—the prisoner is the person—he was in my custody.

GUILTY.**— Six Years' Penal Servitude.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-883
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

883. WILLIAM EGAN (23) , Stealing a watch, value 3l., the property of Robert Grant, from his person.

MR. PLATT conducted the Prosecution.

ROBERT GRANT . I am a warehouseman living at 3 and 4, Aldermanbur?—on 24th September, about a quarter to 10 o'clock at night, I was turning the corner of Ironmonger-lane—a female came up and asked me where I was going—I told her I was going home—she followed by my side, for about ten yards—then she got in front of me and stopped me—I looked down and saw my watch-ribbon hanging down—my watch was gone—it was a silver watch—I had it safe, to my knowledge, half a minute before that, in my right hand waistcoat pocket—I accused her of taking it—she said, "Oh! my God, this gentleman accuses me of taking his watch," and at that moment two men came up to me; the prisoner was one of them—he asked the woman what was the matter, and during that time she put her hand behind her in the direction of the men, who were standing behind her—while she did that, the prisoner told me to search my pockets and see whether I had lost my watch or not—I pulled the female from him, and she ran across the road and went up a narrow court, I pursued her and caught her again—I called out "Stop thief!"—the two men had followed me during this time, and came up tome again there—I held the woman in my left hand—directly the men came up, I caught hold of one of them, not the prisoner, and then the prisoner was between the two, as it were—the female then held out her hand, and I saw her give him my watch—I told him he had my watch in his hand, for I could see it—he then struck me a very violent blow on the eye, and gave me a severe black eye—he struck me again on the ear, and on the mouth—those were just as violent blows as the other—they cut my mouth all to pieces in the inside—he ran up Churchpassage—that is a thoroughfare—I came up with him there—he concealed himself on some steps there—I was crying "Stop thief 1" at the time he came up the passage again, and at the top of the passage the policeman caught him—I afterwards saw my watch: it was found inside the railings near where the prisoner had been.

Cross-examined by MR. JONES. Q. Where were you coming from when you reached the corner of Ironmonger-lane? A. From the Bank—I was at

supper at about half-past 8—this occurred at a quarter-past 10—I had been walking about between half-past 8 and a quarter-past 10—I went up Holborn, down Regent-street, and up Ludgate-hill—I had made no calls at any place whatever; not at any public-house—I took my watch out to see the time by Bennett's clock, not half a minute previous to its being taken—I don't know who the other man was; he was dressed in dark clothes: I cannot describe them particularly—my attention was more particularly drawn to the prisoner—I know the other man had a cap on—the prisoner had a hat—when they first came up I had accused the woman of taking my watch—I was holding her—she was not struggling particularly; merely to get away—she was struggling to get out of my grasp, and I was endeavouring to hold her fast—I did not see what she did with her hand when it was behind her—the other man was at her side at that time; not behind her; about half a yard from her—the prisoner, when he came up, I said, "What is the matter?"—the watch had been passed when the woman put her hand behind her—I saw the female with her left hand give that man my watch, and I then told him that he had my watch, for I could see it—he was then at liberty, standing between the two—we were all three very close together—it was under the lamp—directly the female gave the prisoner my watch, I let go of the other two and pursued the right one—the other man did not struggle when I had hold of his arm—he did not try particularly to get away from me—he may have pulled a little—I was holding him with one arm, and the woman with the other, at the time I saw the watch passed—the prisoner struck me directly I told him he had my watch—I did not strike him again—I did not lose sight of him when I ran after him—I was as quick as he was—he endeavoured to conceal himself but I could see him—he merely went down some steps, and stooped down a little—I was crying out "Stop thief!" at the time, and then he ran again up the passage, and the policeman caught him—the policeman was not coming up the passage—he was at the top of the passage, in Ironmonger-lane, when he caught the prisoner—I saw a policeman, or some one, up at the end on the passage—I don't know whether the prisoner saw the policeman or not; he ran into his arms—I did not first charge the other man with stealing my watch, I never accused him; I accused the right one—it was not raining—I did not take particular notice whether it was cloudy—there was no lamp where this concealment took place; it was perfectly dark—only the prisoner ran there—the female and the other man went down towards Guildhall—the prisoner was running alone at the time he concealed himself—the female had not run up the court where he was taken—she ran away twice—I caught her once—she ran quite the opposite direction to the passage the first time—the other man did not run down Church-passage at all—I did not keep my eye on the other man and the woman, to know which way they turned—I could not tell whether they doubled back—there are not any side entrances communicating with that passage, that I am aware of—I never was down there before, or since.

FREDERICK JAMBS WILLIAMS (City-policeman, 447). I was on duty in Ironmonger-lane, about twenty minutes past 10, and heard the prisoner running from Old Jewry into Ironmonger-lane—he came to the corner of the passage as I was coming round the corner—he stooped at the railings, put his arm through them, and drew it out again—I ran across the road and stopped him—I afterwards went to the spot where he put his arm through, and found this watch inside the railing.

Cross-examined. Q. Was he coming towards you? A. Yes—I was

twelve yards from the top of the passage—he could not see me till? got to the top of the passage—he did not lay hold of the bars to steady himself, but stooped down, put his hand through, and drew it back—he then started off as hard as he could go—I heard no one else running—I was on the opposite side of Ironmonger-lane at the time he put his hand through the railing—I could see into the passage quite plainly.

ROBERT GRANT (re-examined). This is my watch—the number is 19,056.

GUILTY .—He was further charged with having been before convicted.

WILLIAM HENRY MASKILL (Police Sergeant, G 4). I produce a certificate (Read: "Central Criminal Court. William Reynolds, convicted, July,1856, of house-breaking, having been before convicted. Sentenced to Four Years' Penal Servitude.")—the prisoner is the person—I had him in custody.

GUILTY.— Six Years' Penal Servitude.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-884
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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884. PETER VIGO (25) , Robbery on Mary Ann Patman, and stealing from her person 1 purse, and 10s. 6d. in money, her property.

MR. CARTER conducted the Prosecution.

MARY ANN PATMAN . I am a widow, of 30, Leman-street—on Monday, 1st October, I was walking along Islington, about 8 o'clock in the evening with my cousin, Thomas Howard, arid Elizabeth Bullace—the prisoner knocked up against me at the corner of the Liverpool-road, and struck me several times—I drew my hand out of my pocket to save my face from the blows, and he tore my pocket, and took my purse—I held him as long as I could, but he got away—I am sure he is the person—I saw him the next Friday at the station—my cousin had taken him in custody, and came to fetch me—I did not pick him out.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. Were there shops near? A. Yes—I was in conversation at the time—I had never seen the prisoner before—he came against me suddenly—I felt alarmed for a few minutes—he was, dressed the same as he is now—I do not live in that neighbourhood—I know that a great many workmen wear flannel jackets.

MR. CARTER. Q. Had you given a description of the person in the mean time? A. Yes.

THOMAS HOWARD . I live in Albion-street, Balls Pond—I was walking with Mrs. Patman, and saw the prisoner run his head into her chest—he cut her pocket and punched her on the mouth at the same time—he got away.

Cross-examined. Q. Were there any shops near the spot? A. There was a public-house—I and the two ladies were walking together—I am a single man—one lady was married, and one a widow—I saw the prisoner in custody on the Friday following, but I saw him before that a great many times as I was passing to my work of a morning—my cousin called for me on this evening, and I went out to take a walk with her—I had never spoken to the prisoner—I have seen him standing against the toll-gate many times, when I have been going to work of a morning—I have seen him about five times altogether, and always against the toll-gate—I do not know any other persons whom I have noticed there—I ran after the prisoner when he ran his head into my cousin's chest—he ran into a public-house—when I got in at one door, he was out at the other.

MR. CARTER. Q. When you saw him on that night, did you remember him as the person you had seen of a morning? A. Yes—I met him in the same public-house that he went into on that night, called the police, and gave him in custody, but I could not press the charge till I fetched my cousin.

ELIZABETH BULLACE . I am the wife of Henry Bullace, of Albion-place, Dorset-street—I was with the two last witnesses, and saw the prisoner run against my sister—he butted her in the chest, pushed her about, hit her in I the mouth, put his hand under her dress, and took this purse from her pocket—he also struck me in trying to get my sister from my hold, and I suffered from it for some days—I had never seen him before.

Cross-examined. Q. Had you taken any refreshment? A. No, only my tea a few minutes previous—we had not called anywhere.

GEORGE RALPH WILTSHIRE (Policeman, N 158). I took the prisoner on I the Friday evening following, at the corner of the Liverpool-road—Howard, who was with me, charged him with picking the pocket of 10s. 6d.—he said that he knew nothing of it.

Cross-examined, Q. Did you find anything on him? A. Only two penknives.

GUILTY .—He was further charged with having been before convicted.

BENJAMIN GOODWIN (Policeman, M 5). I produce a certificate—(Read: "Central Criminal Court, December, 1855. John Day, convicted of stealing a watch from the person; sentenced to Four Year's Penal Servitude")—I was present—the prisoner is the man—he has only lately come back.

GUILTY.**†— Six Year's Penal Servitude.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-885
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

885. HENRY KENRICK (17) , Stealing 1 box, and 168 Pills, value 10s. 6d. the property of William McCullock, and another, his masters.

MR. LILLEY conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE BISHOP . I am an assistant in the service of Messrs. McCullock; wholesale druggists, of 5, Coleman-street—the firm consists of William McCullock and one other—on the afternoon of 24th September, a few minutes before one, in consequence of directions I received, I watched the prisoner, and saw him take a packet of pills out of the drawer, and put them in his trousers pocket—Frampton's pill of Health was kept in that drawer—there are half-dozen and dozen packets—from the size of the package I could see that it contained a dozen boxes—he then went down stairs—the pills were not in a drawer upon a floor on which he was employed—after he went down stairs, he returned in, I dare say, four or five minutes, and then proceeded to his own department, and then he fetched a parcel out, which I believe contained trousers, but I did not see them—he then went down stairs in a direction to leave the premises—I did not follow him—I cannot tell whether he left the premises—Blair's pill was kept in the drawer as well as Frampton's.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. How long had he been at Mr. McCullook's? A. I believe about three months—neither of the principals are here to-day—Mr. McCullock took the prisoner from his father—I cannot say whether he received a good character with him—his father carries on the business of a druggist: I don't know where—one o'clock was his dinner time, and I have understood that he goes to the Three Tuns, which is in the neighbourhood—I believe, when he was given in custody, he had just got to the place where he usually dined, but I don't know exactly—I communicated with Mr. Monkhouse directly the prisoner went away, and he followed the prisoner directly—the prisoner was brought back again to the counting-house by Mr. Monkhouse—I did not hear any conversation between him and Mr. Monkhouse, upon the subject of this matter, when he was brought back—I was called down by one of the principals, and asked, in the prisoner's presence, if I saw him take anything—I said I saw

him take a dozen of Frampton's pills—the prisoner said he had not taken anything off the premises—he gave it a flat contradiction at once, and protested, over and over again, that he was perfectly innocent—a police-constable was sent for, and he was taken away—there were several young men in the department where I saw him take the box, but they were washing preparatory to going to dinner—they would be in the same room as the prisoner was—it is a long floor—there is a number of rows of drawers right across the room, which would prevent their seeing, as the supports go from the floor to the ceiling, and underneath are casks—there is no one here besides myself, who saw this act of his.

MR. LILLEY. Q. Were you standing in such a position that you could see, without obstruction, any person going to that drawer? A. Yes—I am not mistaken in saying that I saw the prisoner go there on this occasion.

EDWARD HEWER MONKHOUSE . I am a warehouseman in the service of Messrs. McCullock—from information I received I watched the prisoner—on 24th September, in consequence of what Bishop told me, I followed the prisoner into Swan-yard, where he met a strange man—they walked together into Moorgate-street towards the Bank—they went down on the right hand side towards the Bank, and near the end of Moorgate-street they parted, the prisoner going into Coleman-street again, and the other person towards Finsbury-square—I did not observe that before they parted, anything had taken place between them; they were not out of my sight—during the time they went from Swan-alley to Moorgate-street they were in conversation, I should imagine, from their closeness—they both walked rather rapidly, close to each other, but not arm in arm—I did not, during the walk, see the arm of either person raised—the prisoner returned to the warehouse again, and during that time I lost sight of him—he came out again and I followed him again—after the strange man and the prisoner parted, I followed the prisoner into Coleman-street again, into the Three Tuns dining-rooms, and told him he had better come back to the warehouse with me—I did not say why—he asked what I wanted him back for—I told him he would see when we got back—I took him into the counting-house—we sent for a policeman, and he was given into custody—I went to Marlborough-street—he was accused of taking scammony and, pills from the warehouse—Mr. Squire spoke then—the prisoner said he had not stolen anything—Bishop was not sent for—Mr. Squire, who is one of the principals, was there—Bishop came down into the counting-house after the prisoner was brought back—Mr. Squire asked him, in the prisoner's presence, what he had seen the prisoner do, and he said he saw him take these pills from a drawer—the prisoner was searched at the station.

Cross-examined. Q. When Bishop said he had taken a parcel of pills oat of the drawer, surely the prisoner said something? A. Yes, he said he had not taken anything—he repeated his denial all along from the very first moment we accused him—I had had some communication with Mr. Bishop previously—Mr. Bishop is one of the persons employed at the establishment, as the prisoner was—I saw the prisoner leave the establishment and return—I did not lose sight of him from the time he parted with his friend till he went to the Three Tuns—the place which has been described as where the pills are kept, is on the first floor—the ground-floor is devoted to business purposes too—the prisoner was there for the purpose of finishing off bottles of castor oil—he had nothing to do with the making of the pills, he was there for the purpose of finishing off bottles of castor oil—my department is on the ground floor—I was at the station when he was searched—taking

him from the Three Tuns back to our warehouse, I walked beside him all the way.

COURT. Q. Could he have passed anything without your seeing it? A. Yes—I feel sure of that.

MR. LILLEY. Q. Had you, in consequence of information received by you, gone to Swan Alley on previous occasions? A. Yes—I began on 18th September—I should say I had gone there seven or eight times, and I saw the prisoner meet a person that number of times—the person whom I saw him meet on the 24th and walk with to Moorgate-street, was the same whom I had seen on previous occasions—when I used to watch the prisoner followed him from the premises into Swan Alley—I recollect him meeting that man on Thursday the 20th—on that day I saw a whitey-brown parcel passed by the prisoner to the strange man, who carried it away with him.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. On the prisoner being taken into custody did not he give the name and address of the person whom he had met? A. No, nor was it procured through him—that person was watched by an officer now in Court, and was given in custody on the 25th, the very day afterwards—he was examined before the presiding Alderman, and discharged—the officer who took him is not here. NOT GUILTY .

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-886
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

886. WILLIAM JONES (18), and GEORGE SANDERS (24) , Feloniously assaulting William Sewell, with intent to rob him.

WILLIAM SEWELL . I am a confectioner's assistant, of 91, Murray-street—On 12th September, very early in the morning, or a little after midnight, I was in the City-road, and the prisoners came up to me—Jones came up first and asked me the way to Castle-street, he pressed against me—I directed him, and said, "You are getting very familiar and social for strangers"—I felt something on my thigh, and saw that my watch was out of my pocket—I said, "Is that your little game" collared him and fastened him up against the wall—Sanders, who had previously asked me if there was not a public-house called the Park, got behind me, put his left arm round my neck and held me in that position ten or twelve seconds—I called "Police!" and still held Jones against the wall—A crowd got round, and a geutleman struck Sanders on the arm to release me; he let go and ran away—I held Jones till a policeman came and gave him in custody—my watch was safe seven or eight minutes before.

Jones. Q. When I came up to you, did I ask you which was the PostOffice coffee-house, Castle-street? A. You asked for Castle-street—I did not catch you by the throat when you were leaving me, I caught you by the collar when I found my watch 'on my thigh—My drawing it back, took it out of your hand—There were no cabmen there, there were a few females, and one or two people—I had a parcel under my arm.

Sanders. Q. Did I come up with Jones or afterwards? A. With him, but you were about a yard from him, and as the conversation drew to a conclusion, you came much nearer to me—I have since measured the distance from the nearest lamp—it was twenty yards off, but I saw you both distinctly—I noticed you particularly—I had not been drinking—this is my watch (produced).

JOSEPH CRESSWELL . I am a compositor, in the Hackney-road—At half-past 12 on this night, I was in the City-road, and saw the prosecutor and some persons round him—his watch was hanging on his thigh—he seized Jones and Sanders went behind him and seized him by the threat—I struck

Sanders' arm, and he ran away into the arms of the sergeant—I never lost sight of him for I had hold of his coat.

Sanders. Q. How many people were there round? A. Four—Jones was in front of the prosecutor, close by the wall—I did not give you in custody to the first constable, though I had hold of the tail of your coat, because you very nearly threw him over.

JOHN GOULDRICH (Policeman, N 452). I was in the City-road, heard a cry of "Police!" and met Sanders running away, and Cresswell behind him—he got by me, and I took Jones—I saw Sanders brought back by the sergeant.

Sanders. Q. How far do you think Cresswell was behind me? A. Half a yard, or a yard—you were running—you did not speak to me—I did not stop you, because you went too quick.

HENRY STURGEON (Police-Sergeant, N 15). I heard the cry of "Police!" and saw Sanders running—he ran into my arms and struck me a violent blow on the mouth, which made my jaw ache—I took him back to the prosecutor, who was very much exhausted and excited—I found Jones in the custody of Gouldrich.

Sanders. I wish the other policeman to be called.

JAMES BURROUGHS . (Policeman, N 28.) (Not examined in chief.)

Sanders. Q. You arrested me before, for a transaction in the neighbourhood of Hoxton? A. Yes—for a robbery in Charlotte-square—Watts, a constable, was with me—you got four years for that.

Sanders' Defence. I wish to ask the gentlemen of the Jury, whether it is likely that I should go into the same neighbourhood again to commit a robbery.

JONES, GUILTY .*†— Confined Twelve Months.

SANDERS, GUILTY .—He was further charged with having been before convicted.

JAMES BURROUGHS (re-examined). I produce a certificate (Read: West-minster Sessions, September 1856, George Tighe, convicted of stealing a watch, watch-guard, and snuff-box, in a dwelling-house, having been previously convicted. Sentenced to Four Years' Penal Servitude.)—I had him in custody—Sanders is the person, he had only been out a fortnight, or three weeks.

GUILTY.— Six Years' Penal Servitude.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-887
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

887. JOSEPH HARRIS (26) , Robbery on James Price, and stealing from his person 1 watch, value 5l., his property.

MR. PATER conducted tlie Prosecution.

JAMES PRICE . I am a commercial traveller, of 19, Crown-street, Soho—on the evening of 10th September last, I went into the Champion public house and had a glass of ale—I saw the prisoner there—that was the first time I saw him—it was about 2 o'clock in the afternoon—I could not say exactly to the time—I left shortly afterwards, alone—I called there again between 7 and 8 o'clock and the prisoner asked for some stout, and asked me if I would have drink with him, and I did, and then he said would I toss up for a pint of beer—I did so—he paid for it—we tossed for another, and I lost—I paid for that—after I drank the beer I went out, alone—I returned very shortly—it would be about half-past 8 then—I hardly tasted the two pots of beer, because there were so many of the prisoner's friends there—the prisoner challenged me to play at billiards—I accepted the challenge—we went out from there to another house of which I cannot remember the name—I don't know where it was—I don't know the neighbourhood—then we

went to the Perseverance, in Steven-street, Lisson-grove; and he asked if there were any billiards there—they did not keep billiards there—he came out of there and said he would take me to another house—when we got a few yards out of there he asked me what time it was; I pulled out my watch to tell him, and before I could tell him the time, he put his arm under my throat, kicked me on the knee, knocked me down, snapped my watch from the guard, and ran away—the guard broke—he ran down a court into a house—I cried out "Stop thief!" and "Murder!"—I was near the public house which I had left; I might be about ten yards—after he went into the house I saw no more of him—I waited at the door till the policeman came—when the policeman came we searched the house, and could not find the prisoner—after that I went to the station and gave a description of him—I was sent for about 2 o'clock in the morning to identify him, which I did—he was not alone—there were three or four more persons with him—I was sober when I left the public house, and when he inquired the time of me—I was not tipsy—I had had two or three glasses—I was perfectly aware what I was doing.

Cross-examined by MR. ROWDEN. Q. What time did you first meet the prisoner? A. I cannot say—I did not take notice—I did not take out my watch that time—I do not think it might have been 12 o'clock when I first saw him—I had not been steadily on the drink all the afternoon—we had only been tossing for two pots of stout—I was not rather fresh—when we came out of the Champion, there were a few people about—it is not a crowded street—I do not remember seeing any women about at the time.

THOMAS LEWIS . I am barman at the Perseverance public-house, Lissongrove—I remember the prosecutor and prisoner calling there on 10th September—the prosecutor asked if we had a billiard-room—I told him we had not, that we had a bagatelle-board, but that that was engaged, and I should advise him to go home, because he had had a little to drink—they left, and in about five minutes I heard a cry of "Stop thief!" but from whom it proceeded I cannot say, for I was busy.

Cross-examined. Q. Was not the prosecutor drunk? A. No; he had been drinking—I did not hear anything about a bet—I cannot say whether there were a good many people outside—I did not go out.

ENOS PORTER (Policeman, D 58). In consequence of information I received I took the prisoner on the morning of 11th September, about half-past 1 o'clock, in Great James-street, Lisson-grove, coming out of a cab—he said to the cabman, as he opened the door, "Do not make a noise; I do not want anybody to hear me"—I took him to the station, and told him that I charged him with stealing a watch from a party in Steven-street—he said he knew nothing about it—the prosecutor identified him between three or four more persons.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know Steven-street well? A. Yes—it is rather a loose neighbourhood—there are a great many thieves about—I did not receive information of this robbery from the prosecutor.

COURT. Q. In what state was the prosecutor when he came to identify him? A. Quite sober—that was at 3 o'clock—the policeman to whom he gave the first information is not here.

GUILTY .—He was further charged with having been before convicted.

THORNE (Police-sergeant, D 9). I produce a certificate (Read:

"Central Criminal Court, October, 1857, Joseph Harris, convicted of robbery with another person, and stealing money from the penon—Confined Eighteen

Months.)—that refers to the prisoner—I was present at the trial—I apprehended him. GUILTY.**— Six Years' Penal Servitude.

THIRD COURT.—Friday, October 26th, 1860.



Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-888
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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888. THOMAS WADE (58) , Feloniously receiving 1, 184 skins and 19 hides, the property of Peter King and another.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

JOSEPH HUGGETT (City police-officer). In consequence of information I went to 14, Paragon-row, Locks-fields, Walworth, with other officers—I knocked at the door, it was opened by the prisoner—it was about 1 o'clock in the day—he said, "What do you want?"—I was in plain clothes—there were two officers in uniform—I said, "I believe you have stolen property in your house and as such I mean to search your house"—he said, "Very well"—I asked him who occupied the house?—he said, "I do"—I went in and tried to open the door of the front parlour—I found it locked—I said, "Who occupies this room?"—he said, "A lodger of mine, named Williams"—I asked if Williams was in—he said, "No; he is not"—I said, "If you have not the key of the room, I must break the door open"—he said, "Don't do that, you will find nothing there"—I broke the door open and opened the shutters to admit the light—in that room I found 1,200 and 3 and a half skins—I said, "How do you account for the possession of these?"—he said, "The only account I can give is that they belong to my lodger"—I said, "If that is the only account you can give me of them, I must take you to the City; I believe them to be the produce of an extensive robbery that took place in the City on 1st September"—he replied, "Very well;" I took the leather that was in that room and other officers searched other parts of the house.

ROBERT PACKMAN . I am a detective officer—I went with the last witness and other officers to the prisoner's house—I went into the parlour—the prisoner was without his clothes—he went up stairs to dress and I went with him—there were two or three boxes in the room which I requested to look in—he gave me the key and I opened them but found nothing in them—there were one or two cupboards—one cupboard was behind—the bedstead was completely in front of it—I requested him to open it—he appeared very nervous and confused and said, "There is nothing there"—I said, "I must look in the cupboard"—he said, "If you will wait till I am dressed, I will move the bedstead and you shall see"—I did wait—he moved the bedstead and opened the door, and took out six rolls of skins, each containing twelve—he threw them on the bed and said, "Is that what you want?"—I said, "Yes; that is what I was looking for: how can you account for the possession of this property?"—he said, "It was left here when I was out; I know nothing about it"—I said, "You must know something about it"—he then said, "If you must know, it was left here in my charge. "

Prisoner. I did not say there was nothing in the cupboard; I knew the skins were there. Witness. Yes you did.

RORERT PADDY . I am warehouseman to Mr. Peter King, Leadenhallplace, Leadenhall-market—he is a leather factor, carrying on business under the firm of Peter King and Co.—on Saturday, 1st September, I left the warehouse safe and all the skins in it, about ten minutes past 2 o'clock—on

the Sunday I heard something—I went to the warehouse about 8 o'clock on the Monday morning, and missed a great number of skins—I went through the stock book and missed property to the amount of upwards of 300l. one hundred and eight dozen of Morocco skins, some calf and others—the skins produced are part of what we lost—I am sure of it—the amount recovered is about 294l. very nearly the whole—this string round the skins is the same that they were tied with.

EDWARD CRISP . I am salesman to Mr. King—I have examined these skins—I am satisfied that these formed a part of the skins he lost.

Prisoner's Defence. I was not aware that they were stolen—they were left in my care. GUILTY .*— Six Years' Penal Servitude .

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-889
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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889. FREDERICK WATSON (21) , Stealing 301 lbs. of iron of Robert William Kennard and others.

MR. LLOYD conducted the Prosecution.

FREDERICK KENT . I am clerk and overlooker to Robert William Kennard and others—I remember the prisoner coming to the warehouse on October 18th—I had received some information and caused some iron to be weighed in the prisoner's presence—it weighed 11 Cwt. 1 qr. 3 lbs.; previous to that Astbury had been to me with a board of the weight of the iron to be entered in our book; the weight on that was 8 Cwt. 2 qr. 10 lbs.; it came to 2l. 7s. 3d. I think, it was old iron.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did you know the prisoner as being at Mr. Clark's for years? A. No; I do not know his father—I do not know that he has been there before—I have been there about eight months—I saw some iron weighed—it weighed 11 Cwt. 1 qr. 3 lbs.—I did not see the original weighing—the iron was in the prisoner's cart when I saw it—it was coming away from the premises—he had paid for it—I had not seen him pay, but I have seen the bill—the money paid was 2l. 7s. 3d. that was right for 8 cwt. 2 qr. 10 lbs.—Astbury was there when I saw the iron weighed—I said to the prisoner, "I find here is a far greater weight of iron than you have paid for"—I do not recollect that he made any remark—several persons were present—I do not know that there is any one here now who heard it—Mr. Crowther gave him in custody—he was in the same part—the weighing took place outside the counting-house door—when I spoke to the prisoner Mr. Crowther was in the counting-house.

ENOCH ASTBURY . I am porter to the prosecutor—I wag in the yard on 18th October—the prisoner came and said, "I want 8 cwt. of iron, the same as I had before"—I told him I was busy and could not attend to him—the cashier came and spoke to me, and in consequence of what was said I served the prisoner—I told him he must take his cart down the lane, and I went and got the scales ready—the prisoner then said, "Come and have something to drink"—we went to the public house, and on coming back he said, "I am going to put the iron out in four lots of 2 Cwt. each, and I shall trust to you in weighing it; you might as well make 3s. or 4s. for your self"—I told him I never did such a thing, and I was not going to do it now—we went to the warehouse and I put on the weights and weighed the first lot, it was 4 Cwt. 0 qrs. 8 lbs. and I put down the weight on this piece of board (producing it)—while I was putting the weight down the prisoner took some of the iron that had not been weighed and put it on his cart—I said to him, "Hold hard, you are a fool, there are eyes about; you don't know who is watching you"—he did not say anything—he left off but did not take the iron out again—I then weighed some more, 4 Cwts. 0 qrs. 3 lbs.—I put that in his cart, and put it down on this board—he then said he

would have another half Cwt. and I weighed 1 qr. 27 lbs.—that was put in the cart, and I put it down on this board; 4 Cwt. 0 qrs. 8 lbs., 4 Cwts. 0 qrs. 3 lbs., and 1 qr. 27 lbs., making 8 Cwt. 2 qrs. 10 lbs.—I then told him to draw off—he said, "Where is Mr. Kent? I must pay for it"—I allowed the iron to remain in the cart—I went up to the counting-house and charged the iron; it amounted to 8 Cwts. 2 qrs. 10 lbs.—I told Mr. Kent what it weighed in the prisoner's presence—it was re-weighed and it weighed 111/4 cwts. and some odd pounds.

Cross-examined. Q. You appear to have yielded very readily to go and have a glass of gin? A. Yes—no one went with me besides the prisoner—it is not a most unheard of thing, it is usual—there were other men about—no other cart was being loaded; there had been one but it was gone—there were other men, my fellow-workmen, about, but there was no one near the scale—I told the prisoner to take care, there were eyes about; he did not know who was watching him—there were none close to him—there were workmen within sight, about fifty yards off—I thought he was stealing the iron when I told him there were eyes about—I did not procure the assistance of any of the persons of the establishment to watch him—the iron was put on the scale—it was bar iron—I weighed the first weighing; it was 4 Cwts. 0 qrs. 8 lbs.—it was between that and the second weighing that some was pitched in by him—I then weighed 4 Cwt. 0 qrs. 3 lbs. and then he said he would have another half Cwt.—I did not see him pitch any more in—what he pitched in and what I weighed was all mixed together—the difference; was nearly 3 Cwt.—the cart was left near the weighing-place while he went with me to pay the cashier—that is about 100 yards from the weighing-place—I left him paying for the 8 Cwt. 2 qrs. 10 lbs. and I went up stairs to have my breakfast—I was up about half an hour having my breakfast—the re-weighing was done at the counting-house without my having to do with it—the prisoner brought up the cart from the weighing-place—there is another pair of scales in front of the warehouse—when I went with the prisoner to the cashier, I left the cart at the scales—I did not hear Mr. Kent say that there was a great deal more iron than was originally weighed in the cart—I did not hear anybody say anything to the prisoner about there being any more iron there.

COURT. Q. You did not hear anything said by anybody about there being too much iron in the cart? A. No—the prisoner was not standing by the iron when it was re-weighed—it was in the scale when I came down—how long it had been there I don't know.

JOSEPH CROWTHER . I am manager to Mr. Kennard—on the morning of 18th October I saw the prisoner there, and the cart stood in front—I made some inquiries and gave the prisoner into custody.

THOMAS STANFORD (City-policeman, 423). On the morning of 18th October I went to the prosecutor's premises, and the prisoner was given into my custody—I saw this invoice—the iron was in the scale when I went there (Read: "61, Upper Thames-street, October 18, 1860. Mr. Watson, I bought of R. W. Kennard and Co., Iron and Zinc Merchants. Old castiron, 8 Cwt. 2 qrs. 10 lbs., 2l. 7s. 3d. ").

The prisoner received an excellent character.

GUILTY .—Recommended to mercy by the Jury and Prosecutor.— Confined Four Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-890
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > unknown

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890. GEORGE THOMAS (34), HENRY GEORGE (32), and WILLIAM SLOW (19) , Stealing 500 lbs. of tea, value 110l., and 17 wooden boxes, value 30s. the property of Thomas William Newman, in his dwelling-house.Second Count, Receiving the same. George having been before convicted: to which

GEORGE— PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Eight Years.

MR. SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.

ALFRED JOHN ELLEN . I am book-keeper to Thomas William Newman, No. 6, Laurence Pountney-lane—he is a wholesale tea dealer—on Saturday afternoon, 29th September, I left the counting-house at half-past 1 o'clock—the warehouse was closed, and the men were gone—there is a communication from the warehouse to the dwelling-house—previous to my leaving I observed seventeen chests of tea, safe in the warehouse—on that same evening, in consequence of information, I went back to the premises shortly after 9 o'clock, and found the warehouse in considerable disorder, and missed the seventeen chests.

HENRY SAUNDERS . I live at No. 5, Mark's-place, Fetter-lane, and am in the service of the London Parcels Delivery Company—I drive my employer's cart—I was at the Woolpack, in the Minories, on Saturday, 29th September, about 7 o'clock in the evening—some one came and spoke to me there, and I went with the person to Cannon-street, and from there to Laurence Pountney-lane, where Mr. Newman's establishment is—his warehouse door was open, and some men were standing there—I am not certain whether the prisoners were there—I don't know whether there were three or four men—those men put seventeen chests into my cart, and I received directions to go to Whitechapel, and the prisoner George accompanied me, and on Towerhill another joined me—I think it was Slow, but I am not certain—I went through George-street, Whitechapel, to avoid the toll—I finally drove to Cornwall-road, Bethnal-green—I have since been there with Coppin—when I got there, the tea was carried into a house by some persons—George was one, and I think Slow was the other—when Slow accompanied the cart he was riding on the back of it—I did not get any money—I was told to go on Sunday to the Woolpack.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Have you always expressed a doubt about Slow? A. Yes, I had never seen him before—the two men promised to meet me again at the Woolpack—I went there, and saw George and another man—that other man might have been the man I had seen with George before—after I was examined, and had given my statement, George was examined—he said, "I am guilty, but these two men know nothing about it. "

MR. SLEIGH. Q. When you were at the Mansion-house was not another man introduced, and did you not tell the Lord Mayor that that was the man whom you saw on Sunday with George? A. Yes, I identified another man as the man I saw on the Sunday, and at that very time Slow was a prisoner in the dock.

MARIA HOLLAND . I am the wife of James Holland, No. 47, Cambridge-road—I am not the owner of the house in Cornwall-road, but I have often been there—I was there frequently in the month of September—George lived there—I went to see Mrs. Close, who has been in prison and discharged—when I have been there I have seen the prisoner Thomas, and I saw Slow there on Sunday morning, 30th September—George was not there—on the Thursday before the robbery, on the Saturday, I was at the Red Deer—I saw Thomas, George, and Slow there together, in conversation, and some other person—that was between 9 and 10 o'clock in the evening—the prisoners and some other person went away together—on Saturday, 29th September, between 7 and 8 in the evening, I went towards Cornwall-road, and saw a cart near George's door—I saw Saunders backing the cart to the door—I saw

the prisoner George near the cart, and I think I saw Slow—I have no doubt about it—on the Sunday evening I went to Mrs. Close, at George's house, and afterwards went to the Red Deer, and while having a drop of gin the prisoner Thomas put his head in and went away with George's sister—on the Sunday morning I went to the house in Cornwall-road, to Mrs. Close's room—I went into George's room, and saw some tea chests there, which I had never seen before—I saw Mr. Slow there, in his shirt sleeves.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you married? A. No; I am living with Holland—I cannot swear that he has not been convicted—I did not speak to the policeman in this case—I have not been paid to come up here—I will swear I have not been paid to give my evidence—Holland had nothing to do with this tea—there was no tea brought to our house—I first knew about this on the Friday evening—Mrs. Close has one room there.

Cross-examined by MR. SHARPE. Q. I believe you knew Thomas was keeping company with Miss George? A. Yes; on the Thursday evening, when I was at the Salmon and Ball, I was not there half an hour—on Saturday I went to the Red Deer—Miss George was with me there, and Thomas put his head in and she went out with him—the Rod Deer is a quarter of an hour's walk from Cornwall-road.

SARAH BANKS . I am the wife of John Banks—he is the owner of the house, No. 1, Com wall-road—it is a small house of four rooms, let out in tenements—George occupied one room in the upper part, and a person who gave me the name of Carter, who is his sister, occupies the other—I have seen the prisoner Thomas at the house about the 29th September—I think it was Sunday or Monday three weeks since—between that and the end of September.

JOHN THOMPSON . I am warehouseman to Mr. Newman—the prisoner Thomas is my own brother—I have been at Mr. Newman's about 9 years—I never knew that my brother went by the name of Thomas—I know the prisoner Slow—I have seen him close to our warehouse on the hill—he has been in employ somewhere on the hill—I can't say how long ago it is since he has been in employ—I have seen him about the neighbourhood since—I had seen him in the neighbourhood three or four days before the robbery—there was a person named Earwaker in the employ of Messrs. Newman—he is not there now: he left after the robbery—it was three or four days before the robbery that I saw Slow—I was sitting at a loop-hole—he came in, I supposed he wanted Earwaker—I said, "He is in Thamesstreet, gone to his dinner"—I had seen Slow and Earwaker together on other occasions—I fastened up the warehouse on the day of the robbery, and I went on the Monday morning and found it had been robbed—I should think it had been done by some one being concealed on the premises.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. You thought Slow wanted Earwakert? A. Yes; it was between 1 and 2 o'clock—anyone there might have seen Slow as well as I.

GEORGE WEBB (City-policeman, 438). On Saturday, 29th September, I was on duty on Laurence Pountney-lane—I saw something, and I went and communicated to the housekeeper at Mr. Newman's—I went with her to the warehouse—I found there was great confusion—I examined the doors—I did not find any marks of the warehouse being broken into—in my opinion the doors were opened by some one being on the premises—the gas was very nearly turned off, but not quite—I had seen George and Slow about some weeks previously—I saw George on Saturday morning, the 29th, and I saw Slow on the Thursday or Friday morning, on Laurence Pountney-lane.

WILLIAM COPPING (Police-sergeant, 3 K). From information I went with other officers to No. 1, Cornwall-road, Bethnal-green, on Sunday, 30th September, the night after the robbery—I knocked at the door, and was answered by a female—I spoke to her, and after awhile I got admittance—I went into a room downstairs, and found Slow, Thomas, and another man, who has been discharged—Slow and Thomas were in their shirt sleeves, and Thomas had no cap on—I went into a room upstairs, and I found two coats and a cap—I took them downstairs, and Slow took one coat and put it on, and Thomas owned the other coat, and put it on, and also the cap—I then went back to the room upstairs, and found seventeen chests, eight of them were full, and the remainder were empty; and I found three sacks and a bag full of tea—the prisoners were taken to the station.

Cross-examined by MR. SHARPE. Q. Was Mrs. Wells taken in custody? A. Yes, and a woman name Close.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Do you know that that was George's room? A. No, I have since ascertained that the prisoners lived together.

JAMES LEWIS (Police-sergeant, 4 K). I went with the last witness to the house—I went in a room, where I saw Slow and Thomas—I saw the tea chests, and helped to convey them away and to convey the prisoners to the station.

ALFRED JOHN ELLEN (re-examined). These chests produced form a portion of what was taken from my employer's, and the property is his.


OLD COURT.—Saturday, October 27th 1860.


Before Mr. Recorder.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-891
VerdictsGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentencesImprisonment; Imprisonment

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891. JOHN EASTMEAD (37) , Stealing 2 brushes, the property of William Black, his master; and JOHN THORBY (58) , Feloniously receiving the same MR. WAY conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE FREDERICK MOLYNEAUX . I am one of the constables of the City of London—on 1st October, about five in the afternoon, I was watching Mr. Black's warehouse in company with Monger—I saw Eastmead come out of the warehouse, he went along Cannon-street, took a back turning into Thames-street, and went from there on to Southwark bridge—when he got on to the bridge he looked back to see whether anyone was watching him—I then saw him go into a recess on the bridge, where Thorby was sitting down—Eastmead put his hand underneath his apron and gave Thorby these two brushes—Thorby put them in an inside pocket of his coat—I and Monger went up to them—I told them that we were two detective officers, and I asked Thorby what he had got in his pocket—he said nothing—I told him I must search him—he resisted; at last I got my hand into his pocket and pulled out the two brushes—we then took them to the station—Eastmead would not give his name or address until I sent for his master—Thorby gave his name as James Thorby, but refused to give any address—I have found out where he lived—as I was taking him before the Magistrate the next morning, he said, "I have got myself into a bother for having two brushes given me. "

ANTHONY WILLIAM MONGER . I am a constable of the City of London—I have been to No. 1, Upper Doctor-street, Southwark—I saw Thorby's wife there; she told me she was his wife, and we went up into the first-floor back

room and searched it—Thorby bad refused to give his name or address at the station—at last he gave the name of Thorby, but said he had no home, that he lodged at coffee houses—I told him that knowing him so many years I could soon find out his address—I have known him twelve or thirteen years; his real name is King—I saw Emily Keats at the house I searched—I found these eight brushes in the room.

EMILY KEATS . I live at No. 1, Upper Doctor-street, Walworth—I know Thorby by the name of King—he occupied the back room first-floor at my house—he had been there six weeks.

MR. BLACK. I am a brush manufacturer in Budge-row, Cannon-street-Eastmead was in my service—I was at the warehouse on 1st October—I did not see him leave—I verily believe these two brushes to be my property; they have the same mark, they are the same make, and have the same general appearance—they were made for me by Mr. Ellis—I had not given Eastmead any authority to carry away any brushes on that day—I had not sold him any—I will swear to these other brushes, one of them I know, nothing about, but I can swear to this handle as having been my property from the particular way in which we put the ring on—I have such in stock and such brushes also—Eastmead would have an opportunity of getting access to such articles, and of carrying them off if so disposed.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. How long has he been in your service? A. Fifteen years—I never knew of his dealing in brushes at all on his own accouut—three or four months ago he had a couple of hair brushes for a female friend, for which he paid me the trade price—that is the only instance I recollect—I am certain that I bought these brushes of Mr. Ellis—I buy many hundreds of him in the course of a year—if these brushes had been shown to me, irrespective of this case, I should have been able to say they had formed part of my stock, or that they were precisely the same—I could not say more—there is no private mark on them.

Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. They are made of bristles and have wooden backs. A. Yes—lots of them are sold in London by other persons besides myself.

MR. WAY. Q. Are the brushes marked at all? A. Yes; with a peculiar drill hole—those holes are not made in my establishment—others may be the same—there is a figure 4 on them—that merely denotes the size—it is put on by Mr. Ellis.

JAMES HENRY ELLIS . I am a brush manufacturer at Hoxton: these two brushes were made on my establishment—I can't say that I supplied these I to the prosecutor; I supplied him with some exactly similar—there is a peculiarity in the hole in the handle—there is a slit at each side of the hole which corresponds with all I have by me—I cannot speak to the other brushes.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. I suppose you supply dozens of other shops with brushes in every respect like these? A. I do.

EASTMEAD, GUILTY Confined Eighteen Months.

THORBY, GUILTY Confined Twelve Months.

Eastmead received a good character from three witnesses, but the prosecutor stated that he had previously discharged him for drunkenness and dishonesty, and had again employed him in consequence of his long service, and having a wife and family.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-892
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Not Guilty > unknown

Related Material

892. JAMES PEATT (21), JOHN DONOVAN (28), and WILLIAM DONOVAN (24) , Robbery upon a man unknown and stealing from his person a handkerchief, 2 pieces of paper, and a pair of spectacles, his property.

MR. DICKIE conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM ACKRILL (Policeman 48 F). On 6th September, at 2 o'clock in the morning, I was on duty in plain clothes in St. Martin's-lane, and saw the three prisoners—I followed them for upwards of half an hour—I saw them go down St. Martin's-lane as far as Long Acre—they went up to an old gentleman, pulled him down on the ground, and John Donovan held him down while the others rifled his pockets—I saw Pratt take something from the old gentleman's left pocket and put it into his own; it was some pieces of paper—I went to take him into custody—he made a blow at me which missed me, and they ran away—I followed Pratt 'down New-street into Bedfordbury, where he was stopped by another officer—I saw him then throw away this saw-setter (produced); I picked it up, and took him into custody—on the road to the station he said, "It is the first time, and it will be the last, that I ever was in trouble. I was with two thieves, one of the name of Donovan"—I took him to the station and found this silk handkerchief (produced) in his right pocket—I asked him how he came by it—he said, "I do not know"—shortly afterwards he said "I bought it of my companion who I was with, and gave 10d. or 1s. for it"—the inspector told him he was charged with loitering in Long Acre for the purpose of committing a felony—he said, "Well, I was there for that"—on the day of the remand I was at Bow-street, and saw the two Donovans go into a public-house at the bottom of Bow-street—I went in with 39 F, and took William Donovan—I told him he was charged with highway robbery in Long Acre, on the 6th—he said that I was mistaken, he could prove where he was at the time I had mentioned, two o'clock in the morning—I had plenty of opportunity of seeing his face; I had followed them for half an hour—I also knew them by sight previously, and have no doubt of them.

Cross-examined by MR. ROWDEN. Q. How far were you off when the old gentleman was knocked down? A. About ten yards—the prisoners had their faces to me as they pulled him down—I distinctly saw their faces—it was dark; I did not go after the old gentleman—I have never seen him since—he has never been to the station or made any charge—I saw no young woman with him—John Donovan was as near to me as Pratt—I did not take him because I took Pratt—a man named Price was taken up, who ran with me after Donovan—I do not know who the handkerchief belongs to: I did not see it taken out—the charge of loitering against Pratt was a mistake of the inspector; he will speak to that—I have not been talking to Philip Price about this that I am aware of—I never said, "Well now, Mr. Price, if you do not give this evidence in a proper way you will make a mull of the whole affair"—it was not in consequence of what Pratt said that I was induced to take the Donovans in custody—I knew them by the name of Wainwright, but Pratt called them Donovan.

Pratt. I do not know these men; they were not with me. I did not strike the old gentleman; it is quite false.

MR. DICKIE. Q. Are there plenty of lamps in St. Martin's-lane? A. Yes, there are four at that spot.

WALTER APPLEBY (Policeman, 39 F). At 2 o'clock on the morning of 6th September; I was on duty in Long-acre; saw a crowd assembled near a hoarding and the two Donovans running away—there was a cry of "Stop thief"—I pursued them, but could not overtake them—I saw William Donovan throw something away—I picked it up—it was this pair of spectacles (produced)—I apprehended them a week afterwards with my brother constable, at a public house in Bow-street—I knew them before by sight—I was not at the station when Pratt was brought.

Cross-examined. Q. How near were you to John Donovan? A. Not many yards—I did not catch him, because I had rather a sore foot; I was not afraid of him—I knew them by the name of Donovan—I asked them if their name was not Donovan—I said that they were sent there for highway robbery—they said, "You are mistaken"—I did not address either of them by name—they gave the name of Donovan—I did not correct them—John Donovan denied all knowledge of the robbery—my brother constable, Mackrell had told me that it was highway robbery—I did not know what Pratt was charged with.

William Donovan. You said, "Your name is Donovan, is it not? "I said, "No." You said, "I am sure it is; and I take you on suspicion of being concerned in a robbery with Pratt." Witness. No.

COURT. Q. Had you ever seen John Donovan previously? A. Yes—when I stated before the Magistrate that I had not seen them before, I meant not to know anything about them—I saw them on the morning of the robbery.

CHARLES JACKSON . I am a labourer, of 6, Priuce's-court, Newport-market—on 6th September, about 10 minutes to 2 in the morning, I was standing at the corner of St. Martin's-lane attending to a coffee stall—I saw an old gentleman cross from the Cranbourne hotel to the hoarding where the new street is being built—three men followed him, and when they got about thirty or thirty-five yards from the corner where I was, they pounced on him and dragged him to the ground—I saw the men run across and grapple with one man—somebody halloed, "Stop thief," and they ran down St. Martin's-lane—one turned into Long-acre and one kept straight on—a policeman came up to him in Cranbourne-street, but three women came to where the old gentle-man stood and took him away—I went to the middle of the road and picked up this stick (produced) which the old gentleman had—Pratt is one of the three who pounced on him, but the other two men were much shorter than the Donovans—I did not pay most attention to Pratt—I had a woman at my coffee-stall, and had four shillings' worth of halfpence in one of the cups, and I paid most attention to them—I will not take my oath that I saw Pratt robbing the old gentleman, but I saw the policeman grapple with him.

Cross-examined. Q. What time was it you saw the women? A. About two minutes afterwards—the constable, Ackrill, could not have seen them at that time, because he ran down St. Martin's-lane—nobody has told me what to say—I was never within thirty-five yards—I have seen the Donovans' faces in the neighbourhood—I did not go to the police-station at once; I looked after my coffee-stall—I did not tender myself as a witness, I was subpoened.

MR. DICKIE. Q. How near were you to the man who ran away? A. About twenty yards, or more.

Pratt. I think it is very unfair that he should say he knows me now—when he came into the prison on Wednesday morning he said that he did not recognize me. Witness. I was taken in to recognize the two Donovans; I knew you, it was the Donovans I said I could not recognize—I do not recognize your face, but I saw your coat when you were running away, and afterwards I saw you in the constable's hands—you are the man that the constable ran after and caught.

COURT. Q. Was the man that the constable ran after and caught, one of the three who followed the old gentleman? A. He resembled the man very much in the back, but I could not say he is the man.

PHILIP PRICE .—I am porter to Messrs. Levi, Little Queen-street—on 6th

September, about 2 in the morning, I was in St. Martin's-lane, and saw three men assault a gentleman and pull him to the ground; one held him down while the others rifled his pockets—Pratt took something from his left pocket and put it into his own right pocket—I saw a constable catch hold of him—he struck at him, and he ran down St. Martin's-lane, with the constable after him, crying "Stop thief!"—I saw a constable stop him—I cannot swear to the Donovans at all—I do not know them—I saw Pratt throw away several bills and a saw-setter.

Pratt. Q. You were not near to me when I was taken, how can you say that you saw me throw things away; you were running up New-street when the policeman stopped me? A. I was following close after the constable and you ran into the other constable's arms.

GEORGE FELTON (Police-inspector). On 6th September, between, 2 and 3 in the morning, I took down the charge against Pratt, for being in LongAcre for the purpose of committing a felony—he said he was there with two thieves, he was sorry to say; that was the first time and it would be the last—I said, "You were there for the purpose of committing a felony, that is the charge"—he said, "Yes, I suppose we were"—I told him that a man had been knocked down, and that he need not answer me unless he thought fit—he said, "It is no use denying it now. "

Cross-examined. Q. When did you alter the charge of loitering into a highway-robbery? A. It was altered by the Magistrate through the evidence.

Pratt's Defence. I had been home from the country two or three days. I had been with two or three friends, and fell against a man, about thirty years of age, not an old gentleman. We got to high words, and I certainly struck him. A policeman came, and I ran one way and he the other; I saw him run away as if he was afraid. I ran away because I did not want to get locked up for a street row.

William Donovan's Defence. My name is Wainwright, and I told him so. I was not with Pratt; I do not know him.

Mr. Rowden called

EDWARD HINTON . I have known John Donovan for nineteen years—I was bound apprentice to his father, and lived in the house seven years with these two boys—I never knew anything against them—their names are John and William Wainwright—I never knew them by the name of Donovan.

Cross-examined. Q. What have you known of them? A. They worked with me up to 6th September, till I had no work for them—I have never lost sight of them since I left my apprenticeship—I am a master tailor and live at 10, Langley's court, Long-Acre.

PRATT— GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.


NEW COURT.—Saturday, October 27th, 1860.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-893
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

893. JAMES WALES (42) , Unlawfully assaulting Henry Cheatle, and occasioning to him actual bodily harm; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined One Week.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-894
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

Related Material

894. ROBERT HUNTER (51) , Feloniously forging an acqittance and receipt for the sum of 50l. with intent to defraud.

MESSRS. POLAND and ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution.

EDWARD BOODLE . I am the secretary of the Provident Institution for savings, at St. Martin's-place, Charing-cross—I keep the rules and regulations of the society—a depositor when he opens an account is required under the terms of the Act of Parliament, to sign a declaration that he has no money in any other savings bank—he receives a deposit-book—this is one of the books (produced)—this is the original deposit-book given to George Hunter, on 31st September, 1844—the address is entered in another book—this is not the book that is signed by the depositor—this is it (produced)—it is signed on 31st September, 1844, by George Hunter, described as a gentleman's servant, living at Duke-street, Grosvenor-square—money was paid in by him from time to time—140l. in money, and the other is the accumulation of interest, amounting, as far as this book goes, to 168l. 10s. 7d.—this book is made up to the 20th May, 1854—the last deposit was on 3d June, 1850—no depositor can put in more than 150l.—on 16th May, 1860, I found that the accumulation of interest made 200l. 7s. 7d.—I wrote to inform the depositor of it—this is the letter I wrote—it was forwarded to George Hunter—(read): 16th May, 1860—Sir, I beg to inform you that the deposit made in your name amounts to the sum of 200l., no further interest therefore, can, by Act of Parliament, be paid on your amount unless you decrease your amount under 200l. You are requested to acknowledge the receipt of this letter"—the postal address is Mr. George Hunter, 10, George-yard, Duke-street, Grosvenor-square—there is "Robert George Hunter" in the corner—that was done afterwards at the office—the prisoner afterwards produced that letter at the office—he attended with a friend of his of the name of Cox, a greengrocer—they both came into my room—I said, "Is your name George Hunter?"—he said, "Yes"—I said, "Where is your book?"—he said, "I have not got it"—I asked what had become of it, and he said it had been destroyed in a fire some years ago—I asked him why he had not made an earlier application about it, and then his friend Cox immediately said, that he had received an injury upon his head, and he did not trouble himself much about his concerns, and it was on that account that he came with him—I then told the prisoner that the first step was, that he must give us formal notice of the loss of the book—I then took him to the officer whose duty it is to take a record of these matters, and he then signed the book—it is a form that we fill up—when the application is made it is signed—this is it, the name of depositor is Robert George Hunter, originally paid in as George Hunter—the date of the application, 4th June, 1860, the original address is not filled up; name of the applicant, Robert I George Hunter; address, 1, Frederick's mews—that was signed by the prisoner, "Robert George Hunter"—I saw him write it—that money paid in as by George Hunter, was paid on 4th June; the day of the application—I have no doubt the officer did not put in the address because we thought that the prisoner was the original depositor—I did not know at that time whether it was made out originally in the name of George or Robert George Hunter—I then told the prisoner that it was always our practice, when the money amounted to 200l., to allow them to have it immediately; but I said he must wait a week, and he came again on the following week, the 11th, with Cox—a fresh book had not been made out in the meanwhile; we waited till the depositor attended—I was directing a deposit-book to be made out when he came in with Cox—Cox looked at the manager, Mr. Robert

Thompson and said, "I beg your pardon, but I think I know you very well"—Mr. Thompson did not immediately recognize him, and Cox said, "I am a greengrocer living in the neighbourhood of Connaught-square, and I have been in the habit of supplying your family with vegetables"—Mr. Thompson said, "Oh, I recollect you perfectly well"—he then said he came to make the application for this money belonging to his friend Hunter—upon which Mr. Thompson said, "I know you very well, but I know Hunter better; he occupies stables under my brother-in-law, and I am in the habit of hiring his flys, and it is only a few days since that he drove myself and family to the Crystal Palace; I have known him for some time, and whatever he tells you, you may rely upon"—I then gave orders for a new deposit-book to be made out, and he was to receive the money which would have been a small amount at that time—he asked if he might not have a larger sum at once—I asked how much he required—he said he should like to have 50l.—I said of course he could have it; as he was so well known, he might have it at once—he was paid the 50l. and that sum was entered in a book as allowed without notice; a new book was given to him—he was paid by Mr. Scallon, the cashier—I sent him to the proper ledger clerk and cashier to pay him; after that Mr. Scallon came in and told me there was some difficulty about the signature of the depositor—I am not quite sure whether that was in the prisoner's presence, and then I called the prisoner and inquired how he accounted for the variation in the signature—it was signed Robert George Hunter, the name of the depositor being only George Hunter—I asked him the original address, which corresponded with that in our books—he gave me in words an address which corresponded with the original—Mr. Scallon and I then conferred together and we thought it would be much better to get the name corrected—we allowed him to correct it in the signature-book—he altered his name according to Mr. Scallon's direction, and after that he was paid the money.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. When was the name of Robert George Hunter written on this letter? A. I think that must have been on a subsequent occasion—I think the address in that book was written in my presence—I knew nothing of either of the parties at all—he might have had a great deal more than 50l. if he had liked, he might have drawn the whole if he had chosen, after Mr. Scallon's explanation—on a subsequent occasion he drew 50l. more, he then gave formal notice, that was on the 30th June—the book was presented subsequently in the middle of July by the widow—I have seen her since—I understand she is insane—I have had no opportunity of judging whether the prisoner is eccentric—Cox told me that he had met with an accident and was not at times quite right in his head, and that was the reason why he himself came—Mr. Thompson is out of town at this time—no repayment had been made until that one of 50l. either of principal or interest—30l. is the largest sum that can be paid in in one year—they are nearly all 30l. except one, and that is 20l.; there are four thirtys and one twenty, and the rest is accumulation of interest—no one had called for interest from the year 1844, and the last payment of deposit was in 1850—there is no fresh deposit, the only writing of any person, whoever it was, is to be found in that book where you find the name of George Hunter, and the address George-street.

MR. POLAND. Q. You say that Mr. Cox told you about the injury on his head, did you see anything to lead you to the conclusion that he was insane? A. No; I believe he was not in his right mind—I saw something the matter with the side of his head.

THOMAS NASH SCALLON . I am chief cashier at the Provident Institution. on 11th June, this deposit book was brought to me—when I came to the book I called out the name of George Hunter, and the prisoner came to me—I had had this receipt written out for 50l.—I turned the book round and told him where to sign his name; he signed the name of Robert George Hunter—in accordance with our practice, before paying the 50l., I compared the signature of that receipt with the signature in the signature book—I noticed in the original book that it was George Hunter, and not Robert George Hunter—I did not tell the prisoner of it then—I went to Mr. Boodle's room, and he said that Mr. Thompson knew Hunter and that it was all right—the 50l. was then paid and Mr. Boodle requested me to take a fresh siguature—in consequence of that I took a fresh signature book and the prisoner then signed the name of Robert George Hunter as it now appears—the money was paid and he took away the deposit book with him—on 30th June he came again, the deposit book was brought to me—I called out and the prisoner answered to the name of Robert George Hunter—a clerk altered the deposit book by my direction on 11th June—the prisoner signed a receipt on the 30th—I have it here, he signed the name of Robert Hunter—I compared it with the signature book and then noticed that George was omitted—I said to him, "You pay very little respect to your Christian names"—he then added "George," and the 50l. was paid—I thought he was the original depositor.

Cross-examined. Q. When did he sign this upon the letter? A. I don't know; I directed the letter myself—I have not the slightest idea who put it—I have not seen it before—I don't know who saw that signature put on that letter.

MARIA HINOHLEY . I am the sister of Mrs. George Hunter—in January last, I was living at Danver in Norfolk—George was living there early in January with my sister—he was a gardener—he died on 13th January of this year—I believe he got his living down there by gardening—I never saw the prisoner.

Cross-examined. Q. Was he a jobbing gardener, or what? A. He has lived in gentlemen's families, perhaps about eight years before his death—he has been in Sir Francis Goodrick's employ—I believe Sir Francis is alive now—I don't know how many years it is since he was there—it is not so much as twenty years, it is perhaps ten—the last time I saw him in service he lived at Claremont Lodge—I am not prepared to say when that was, perhaps ten or twelve years since—I can't remember the name of any other family whose service he was in; he was gardener to Sir Francis Goodrick—I believe they had some money in their possession; I never saw any amount saved up—George used to work sometimes with a Mr. Palmer, at Danver, he was bed-ridden seven months before he died—I believe he and his wife were supplied with money occasionally by different members of the family, and by the prisoner amongst others, and by John—I don't know over how long a time that extended; I have only been acquainted with it since my brother's death, my sister has told me—I don't know that since his death a subscription was made to be paid to the widow—I know my sister's handwriting, this letter (produced) is her writing, and this one also—I think this letter is in the handwriting of George Hunter—I was with my sister after his death; money did not come after I was there—I went there on 17th January, and he died on the 13th—there is nobody here that I know of who has seen any fund of money in their possession—I don't know what means he had of making money during the two years before his death, he was sometimes too ill to work.

MR. POLAND. Q. Did George Hunter leave a will? A. Yes, the cottage that they lived in at Danver, was his wife's; it was left to her—I am not aware that my sister had any money of her own—it is a small double cottage; four rooms altogether—they let for about 1s. per week.

REV. WILLIAM SIMMONDS . I live a mile from Danver, in Norfolk—I knew George Hunter and his wife—I have not seen her to-day—I believe the name in this signature book to be George Hunter's signature—he was a gardener, I believe—I never heard of him following his business while there.

COURT. Q. Did they live comfortably? A. Yes—I know of no application to the parish—I had known Mrs. Hunter nearly nine years up to last August—I never heard of her having suffered from any symptoms of insanity.

Cross-examined. Q. What opportunities have you had of seeing his signature? A. I have seen him sign petitions; perhaps three or four—I have certainly seen him sign twice—I can't say when it was—perhaps twelve months before his death—to the best of my belief this is his signature—I should say most positively that this signature above is in a distinot handwriting—Mary Ann Hunter seemed much affected by her husband's death, but her mind was clear—I saw her up to May after that.

T. N. SCALLON (re-examined). We have an account with the widow of George Hunter—I have not seen her here to-day—Mr. Boodle's evidence will be of more value than mine—I know nothing about it.

EDWARD BOODLE (re-examined). No part of this book (produced) is in my hand-writing—I saw Mary Ann Hunter the other day—she applied for a sum of 40l. to me; personally—it was some time at the latter end of July—this book which is in her name is one of our deposit books; the entries in it are in the hand-writing of my clerks and the signatures of the managers.

MARIA HINCHLEY (re-examined). I have seen this book in the possession of my sister—I got it from a friend of hers who took it when she was not able to take care of it, and I gave it to Mr. Muillins.

COURT. Q. Did your sister ever live at Horsham? A. Yes—I don't know when she left; she lived with her husband there—this is my sister's writing at the top line in this book.

MARY ANN HUNTER having been examined by the Court and her answers not being satisfactory, MR. POLAND proposed, she not being then capable of being examined, to put in her depositions before the Magitrate, to which MR. METCALFE objected, and MR. MULLINS, the solicitor for the prosecution, was then called, and proved that when she gave her evidence before the Magistrate she was of perfectly sound mind. MR. METCALFE then called MR. BURY VICTOR HUTCHINSON, the attorney for the defence, who stated that in his judgment, when she was examined before the Magistrate she was not in a fit state to be relied upon. MR. JOHN ROLAND GIBSON the surgeon of Newgate, was then sworn and stated that he had seen Mary Ann Hunter for a few minutes that morning, and she seemed to be somewhat lost in mind; he thought that any evidence she might then give was not to be depended upon, but that she might vary from, day to day. The COMMON SERJEANT having consulted with THE RECORDER, decided that the deposition was admissible. The deposition was here put in and read as follows:— MARY ANN HUNTER , on her oath, saith—I reside at Danver, in the county Norfolk—I am the widow of George Hunter—he died on 13th January last—that is the probate of his will (produced)—I am the executrix—this is the Provident Institution Savings Bank book (produced) I had it in my husband's life time, and I always kept it—I know the prisoner—he is my husband's

eldest brother—I have known him about twenty years—I never knew him by any other name than Robert—I didn't authorize prisoner to draw any money from the Savings Bank on my account—I put in all the money myself, with my own hands, except the first deposit—at the time the first deposit was made my husband was out of a situation—in December, 1844, we were living at Chelsea—my husband gave at the Savings Bank his brother's address, because we were not regularly resident in London. "

JONATHAN WHICHER . I am inspector of the A division of police—on 6th July last I took the prisoner into custody, at No. 1, Frederick's-mews, Stanhope-street—I told him I was a police officer, and that, he must consider himself in my custody, for fraudulently obtaining 100l. from St. Martin's Savings Bank, and forging the name of George Hunter—he said, "It is all right, I got the money, I know, but it was my own money"—I then searched the place, and found the new deposit-book, and the letter of 16th May—the prisoner is a livery stable keeper—he lets flys—the name over his door is Robert Hunter—I also found a receipt for the post-hone license; this is it (produced)—it is in the name of Robert Hunter—I also found a marriage certificate in the name of Robert Hunter, and some of his business cards, they are "Robert Hunter"—as I was taking him to the policestation he said, "This money belonged to a woman who is now in Australia"—he did mention the name, but I do not recollect it—he said, "As to my name, the fact is, I was never christened; my mother took me to be christened, and the clergyman was not at home; I am as often called George as I am Robert. "

Cross-examined. Q. Did he tell you that he had put it in, in the name of that woman who had gone to Australia, so that his wife might not know of it? A. No, he made use of the words, "The money belonged to a woman in Australia. "

JOHN HUNTER . I live at Datchet—the prisoner is my brother—I don't know what his name is—he has always gone by the name of Robert—I am not going to say that his name is Robert George, or that it is not—I had a brother named George, who was living at Danver, in Norfolk—he is now dead.

Cross-examined. Q. The prisoner was coachman to Lord Canning, was he not? A. Yes, for about ten or twelve years—he had an accident to his head before he left, which has affected him more or less ever since—he is frequently subject to fits—I have known him to have as many as thirty-six fits in as many months—it affects his head at times—I know that there was a woman connected with him who went to Australia—that was the cause of the disturbance between him and his wife—my brother George was in a situation eight or nine years before his death, I believe—I have sent him and his wife money during that time, and the prisoner has also—I don't know what sums—I have sent them larger sums than 5s. or 10s.—I sent money down to the widow at my brothers death—I have no knowledge of any means that they had—I don't know that my brother had any mode of getting money during that seven or eight years—I have no knowledge whatever of my sister's means, or her property—since the prisoner left Lord Canning's, he has been in Grove-street and Frederick's-mews, and carried on business there up to this time.

MR. POLAND. Q. How many times have you seen your brother George during the last six years? A. Twice; I saw him at his last illness—I believe the cottage belongs to Mary Ann Hunter—I sent her 5l. after his death—I can't say when it was this woman went to Australia—I should say

seven or eight years ago; I can't say to a few years—I have seen her repeatedly myself—my name is John—I am not aware that my brother George had another name—the prisoner's head was injured while he was in Lord Canning's service—I can't say exactly when that was—since that time he has been living in Grove-yard, Duke-street, and carrying on business in Frederick-mews.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Did your brother George ever live at George-yard? A. He never resided there—I have no family; I lost them—the prisoner several children—his eldest son is standing there—I know Mr. Cox—I believe him to be a very respectable man—there was a fire at the prisoner's place fourteen or fifteen years ago. Mr. Metcalfe called the following Witnesses for the Defence.

JOHN NICHOLLS . I know the prisoner—I remember his being in Lord Canning's service—I have known him since—I remember his meeting with an accident some time ago—I remember his having a connexion with a woman—he then went by the name of George—they used to come repeatedly to my house when I was in business.

Q. Do you know of that woman having any money in the savings-bank? A. I questioned the prisoner and told him I would not credit him during his connexion with that woman—I would have credited him for 500l. or any sum, and he then produced a rent-book or a book of some sort; I did not look into it, and he said, "I have got money for her"—I know very well that he has often asked me for 5l. to make up his accounts—he told me he had money, and I might have the book to go and take his money—he said where the money was—I know after he had the accident at Lord Canning's he went away—I have noticed the state of his mind—I have taken him home repeatedly—I have gone with, him to take him home to his wife because I thought he was mad—he has paid me 5l. or 10l. at a time, and then not recollected that he had paid it—he has never had a fit in my presence.

Cross-examined by MR. POLAND. Q. When was it he first dealt with you? A. About ten years ago—I have lent him money to make up a sum—he might have drawn 3l. or 5l.—that may be seven years ago—I did not take particular notice—I think it may be eight years—that woman represented him as Mr. George, or Mr. George Hunter—she called him in conversation her George—I knew his name was Robert, and I said to him, "Why do you go by the name of George? your name is Robert"—when he gave me an order I executed it—I have seen him intoxicated repeatedly, and sent him home to his wile—I must have lost sight of him six or seven years—I have been away from business some six years.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Has he borne a good character for honesty? A. Yes—Lord Canning said to me, "Anything you can do for my servant, do"—I have let him have 5l. because he wanted to make up his little book that his wife knew nothing about—I heard that he sold out of the bank more than 300l.

THOMAS COX . I am ft greengrocer—I live in Connaught-square—I have lived there thirty years—I know Mr. Thompson—the prisoner drew my attention to a letter from the bank—his wife asked me to go to the bank with him—she told me he had money there, and I went—he made no secret at all of it—he told me a little about some money in the bank, and he told me about the woman—he said, "Will you go with me?"—I said I had no objection—I went, and I saw Mr. Thompson—the prisoner said, "I put the money in for my woman, and she married and went to Australia, and

I thought she had taken the money"—he said that publicly—if he had a glass of anything he was mad—he was often called Mad Hunter—I never heard anything against him; he had a good character.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know his wife? A. Yes—he showed me this letter—some persons called the prisoner Robert, some George, and some Mad Hunter—I was with him when he received the second 50l.—he did not give me any money to take care of—I saw him on each occasion when he went to the bank; the first time to get the book, and the next time to receive 50l.—I did not take charge of the money, he took it himself.

CHARLES WILLIAM . I have known the prisoner the last six years—I have heard him called George Hunter—some called him Bob, and some Mad Hunter—I have seen him act very curiously at different times—he went out with me one evening; he came home, and the next morning he came to my house and said, "He left me ten miles from London, and when I came to I found myself asleep under a tree"—when he has been drinking he is not in his right mind.

HENRY WILKINS . I am a surgeon—I have attended the prisoner about ten years—he has had fits every month since the 21st January, 1858—after these fits he suffers for three or four days—he is in a half stupid state—they affect his mind for three or four days—I understand he met with a very serious accident, the fracture of the skull, and drinking makes it worse—I believe at times he has been very violent the last two years—after the attacks I have generally cautioned his wife.

Cross-examined. Q. How often does he have these fits? A. About once a month—the last time I attended him was about the middle of June—when the effects of the epileptic fits are gone off he has been at large—I have had no control over him—I think his wife has conducted the busiuess the last two years.

COURT. Q. Is he mad or not? A. He is mad at those times for three or four days.

ARTHUR MCCABE . I am a surgeon—I have known the prisoner about three years—I have attended him for epileptic fits—I have noticed his mind very excitable and often wandering—no doubt something has affected his brain before the fits come on—I have found him an honest straightforward man in his dealings.

JOHN HICKS . I am a coachman—I have several times sat up with the prisoner—he was very violent indeed—he would put his coat on his legs—he was not in a fit state to be left—that was about once a month—I never heard anything against his character.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you known him any time? A. Yes, thirteen years—I have never seen him driving a fly.

BENJAMIN HALL . I am a licensed victualler—I believe the prisoner shewed me this letter—he mentioned that he had a letter; he had it in his hand—I saw so much of it—I have trusted him with crossed cheques to a large amount. MR. POLAND called

MR. JOHN ROWLAND GIBSON . I am the surgeon of Newgate—the prisoner was brought here on 30th July—since then I have seen him almost daily, and I have conversed with him—he is sane.

GUILTY .—Recommended to Mercy by the Jury, on account of the mental qffection that lie laboured under.— Confined Eighteen Month.


Before Mr. Recorder.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-804
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Not Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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804. CHARLES REYNOLDS (23), THOMAS KELLY (25), and DAVID HARRINGTON (28) , Feloniously assaulting and wounding John Porter with intent to do him some grievous bodily harm.

MR. THOMPSON conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN PORTER . I am a labourer in the Victoria Docks—on Saturday night, 6th October, I was in company with Reynolds and Kelly drinking—I never saw Harrington in our company—we left the public-house about 10 o'clock, and proceeded down the Victoria Dock-road—as we were walking down the road another seafaring man came along, and Reynolds commenced fighting with him—I went up to him to persuade him to come away from fighting and then Reynolds and Kelly made an attack upon me, and hit me and kicked me—I got hold of Reynolds, and after that he plunged a knife into me in five places; under the left arm, in the ribs, and at the back of the shoulder—I did not see Kelly round me then—Reynolds and I were together—the affair lasted about five minutes—I walked away and pulled my shirt out, to see where the blood came from—I was taken to Mr. Morrison's surgery, and Mr. Elphick attended me—I was confined to my bed nine days—I am still under medical treatment.

CHARLES PORTER . I am the prosecutor's brother, and am fireman at the engine-house, Victoria Dock—I was in company with my brother on the Saturday night—Reynolds and Kelly were drinking with us—we left the public-house about 10 o'clock, or it might be a few minutes after—we were walking down the Victoria Dock-road—and met with another seafaring man; Reynolds and he began fighting—my brother went up to persuade them to leave off fighting—and Reynolds and Kelly commenced fighting him—they shoved him into the road and commenced hitting and kicking him—my brother halloed out, "I am done! I am stabbed!"—I ran up to protect my brother, and the prisoner Harrington came at me and ill used me with his fists—I had not known him before—I did not see Reynolds using the knife—when my brother called out that he was stabbed, Kelly had just shifted on one side of me, and Reynolds had run away—I stood on one side—I was watching them but did not see the knife—I ran for a policeman and then for a surgeon, and I saw Kelly and gave him into custody.

JOHN MCCORMACK . I am a labourer at Stratford—I was in company with the two Porters and the prisoners Reynolds and Kelly drinking—Harrington was not in our company—we left the public-house, and proceeded along the Victoria Dock-road—we met another man, and Reynolds commenced fighting with him—John Porter went to persuade him to come away from fighting and he attacked John Porter and knocked him down—I looked round, but there was such a crowd that I could not see what was going on, till I heard Porter say, "I am done—I am stabbed!"—and when I got in among the crowd to see what was done to him, Reynolds had run away, Kelly was standing close to John Porter—I did not see any knife used.

DANIEL CRANE . I am a labourer at Plaistow-marsh—on Saturday night, 6th October, between 10 and 11, I was standing near the Chandelier public-house near the Victoria Dock—I saw Kelly and Porter together—I bade Porter good night, and they went down the road—Kelly said to Porter, let us be off home—I stood and looked and saw a mob of people—I ran down and saw Kelly and Reynolds fighting with Porter—there was such a crowd

of persons I could not see the fighting—they were hitting and kicking Porter as well as they could—I did not see any instrument used—I heard Porter sing out, "I am done!" and I ran towards him, and saw Reynolds run away from him—I went up to Porter and caught hold of him, and he said, "I am stabbed"—I took him to a surgery.

JURY. Q. Did you see Kelly kick Porter? A. No; I saw him hit him in the face.

PETER SUTTON . I am a carpenter living in Victoria Dock-road—on Saturday night, 6th October, between 10 and 11 o'clock, I saw Reynolds and Kelly—I saw them attack John Porter—I saw Kelly hit him in the face and knock him down—I did not see anything else done to him—I saw no knife used, but I saw the blood running from Porter's side where he was stabbed.

THOMAS JAMES BARRUM . I work in the docks—I was not present at the fight—I went to fetch a policeman, and as I returned I kicked against something, it was this knife—it was open and the blade was warm—I picked it up near where the struggle was—I gave it to Collins the policeman.

WILLIAM ELPHICK . I am a surgeon at Plaistow—on Saturday night, 6th October, I was called to attend the prosecutor—I found him in Mr. Morris's surgery, lying on his back across two chairs—he had been bleeding very profusely—one of Mr. Morris's assistants was dressing his wounds—Mr. Morris being absent, I was called in to attend the case—he had two wounds in the front part of his body; one in the neighbourhood of the stomach, one on the left side of the stomach near the spleen, from which he had lost an immense quantity of blood—the others, on the arm-pit, shoulder, and loins, were of minor importance—the two wounds in front were of a dangerous nature—his life was in danger for about eight or nine days—he is now convalescent—they were incised wounds, such as this knife would be likely to inflict—the front wounds were deeper than those behind—they were probably the whole depth of the knife—the wound in the arm was not above half an inch deep.

Reynolds's Defence. I am guilty of stabbing the man, but I did not do so with the intention of doing him any injury, or more harm than I could possibly help; I did it in my own defence; there was a lot round me who I did not know; the commencement of the row was this, a man belonging to another ship came up to me and said, "Your ship's company is going to get licked;" and he made a step to strike me; I struck him, and then Porter struck me in the eye and knocked me up against the wall; he said, "You sha'nt kick the man;" I was not going to kick him; he caught me by my hair and beat me, and dragged me along the ground, the blood ran down me so that I could not see; I was two or three minutes before I could get up, and then they commenced beating me again, some half-dozen of them; there was no policeman there to take them away, and I did not know but what I might get killed, so I pulled out my knife and stabbed him; I was dreadfully injured and ill used.

HENRY YOUNG (Policeman, K 75). I took Reynolds into custody—the mob rushed upon him and he was knocked about—that was after the, occurrence, the crowd was so great that I could not see what state he was in before.

CHARLES PORTER (re-examined). At the time Reynolds ran away nobody had struck him; he had not received any blow from the sailor—afterwards he was struck about a good deal—he was not drunk.

REYNOLDS— GUILTY .— Six Years' Penal Seivitude.




Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-895
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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895. JOHN WHITE (15) , Stealing I watch, the property of James William Willings, from his person; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-896
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

896. ROBERT THOMPSON (31) , Stealing two 5l. notes, the property of William Banks.

MR. LANGFORD conducted the Prosecution.

CAPTAIN WILLIAM BANKS . I am Captain of the 6th troop of the Military Train—on 9th September, that troop was at Woolwich—the prisoner was Troop Sergeant-major—I gave him two five-pound notes about 3 o'clock in the afternoon—he came to me for money to pay his troop—I gave him one five-pound note, and another five-pound note to pay some bills on my account—I told him to bring the bills to me immediately afterwards—I waited in the mess-room where he was to have brought them to me—he did not return, and I had to pay the troop myself—I remained several days without seeing the prisoner—he did not make his appearance on the 9th, 10th, 11th, or 12th—I did not see him again till the 17th; he was then in custody, in plain clothes—I had given information—he did not say anything to me about the two five-pound notes.

THOMAS WATTS (Policeman, R 70). On 16th September, I went to Charles-street, Westminster—I waited two hours, or two hours and a half, watching a coffee-shop—I saw the prisoner and took him—I told him I wanted him for stealing some money; he said "It is all right"—I took him to Shooter's-hill police-station.

Prisoner. You did not take me, the Sergeant did—the Sergeant handed me to you. GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-897
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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897. ELLEN COLLIS (38) , Stealing I box, and 5l. in money, the property of Edward Cowland.

MR. LAXTON conducted the Prosecution.

EDWARD COWLAND . I live at Deptford, and am a smith—the prisoner lodged in my house about six weeks—her bed room was the front room up stairs—my bed room was the back room on the same floor—there is a cupboard in my bed room—On 6th September, my wife cleared that cupboard out, and this box (produced) was brought down to me—there were five sovereigns in it—I saw it after it was put into the cupboard—the sovereigns were in it, in a large piece of paper—the box fastens with a spring, which fastens the lid down—I saw it safe that night—I came home about 8 o'clock at night, on Monday, 8th October—I saw the prisoner and my wife; they called out, "There has been thieves in the house"—I went up stairs to my room and looked in the cupboard, and missed the box—the prisoner asked me to go in her room—I went in and found the contents of two or three boxes strewed about the room, and she told me she had lost two shirts and a white shirt—I went to the police-station and brought a constable; we went up stairs and searched the cupboard together—I did not see anything wrapped in a piece of paper—I must have seen it if it had been there—the prisoner asked the constable to go into her room; she told him she bad lost two shirts, and a blue shirt not made up—On the Tuesday morning, the box was brought to me by a fellow-workman, whom I saw pick it up about forty yards from my house—it appeared to have been there all night, because it

had some dewdrops on the top of the lid—the lid was on one side—On Wednesday night, I came home at half-past 5 o'clock—the prisoner beckoned me, and asked if I was going to work again; I said "Yes"—she said "I want you to go for a walk with me, but don't say a word about it to any one"—I went with her, and we went to the William the Fourth public-house, in Flagon-row—we went in and sat down together, and she began talking about the clothes she had lost—she said "The clothes were not stolen; I gave them to my brother last Sunday week, because he was very badly off"—she then told me she had strewed the things about her room and mine to make it appear that a robbery had taken place, that her husband, or the man she lives with, might think they were stolen—I asked her how she did it—she said she came to my room and asked my wife to go for a walk with her, and she had consented, that she then went up stairs to take her bonnet and shawl, and went into my bed-room and took the box containing the money, and also my coat, and that she had dropped it on the stairs, and had dropped the box while I was talking with my wife—she told me I should find the money safe wrapped in a paper in one corner of the cupboard—from what I heard of the superstition of the prisoner, I told her it was very fortunate for her that she had told me about it, for my wife had been persuaded to go to London to see the astrologer, she would give him half-a-crown and he would tell her where the money was—she said "Do you really think the astrologer could tell her where the money was?"—I said "Yes, of course he could"—she said "Then the devil must be in him"—I left the public-house with the prisoner, and I came home and went up stairs and looked in the cupboard, and saw this piece of paper which contained four sovereigns—if this paper had been there when I searched the cupboard I must have seen it—it is the same paper that I had put the money in—the money was wrapped and folded in the paper when I put it in, and it was screwed up afterwards—I brought it down to the prisoner, and said, "There are only four sovereigns"—she made use of very abusive language, and said, "The other sovereign must be in the box"—I told her it was not.

Cross-examined by MR. SHARPE. Q. Had she been living in your house about six weeks? A. Yes; she went a part of that time to see her friends—I believe there are witnesses to speak to her character—I was not there when the cupboard was cleared out—I put the sovereigns in paper in the box on Saturday night myself—my wife was at the time in the front room down stairs—my wife saw me put in the 5l.—she knew there were five sovereigns, neither more nor less—after wrapping them in paper I put them in the box—my wife put the box in the cupboard—I saw it there about 10 o'clock at night—it was about 5 o'clock when I put it in the box—I did not look in the box at 10 o'clock to see if the five sovereigns were there.

Q. Did you not say before that it was lucky for you that she told you, as your wife was going to consult an astronomer or an astrologer? A. Yes, that was said after she had told me the whole story—I then went to the cupboard and found the money—the prisoner had an opportunity of going into the house before me—she might have been in about a quarter of an hour before me—we came part of the way home together—I went straight home—I went no where else—I was on friendly terms with her—it was on the Wednesday I had this conversation, and got the sovereigns—I did not say anything more to her the next morning—when the box was brought to me it was partly open—it was on Thursday morning I went to the police-that was after I had this conversation with the prisoner—there were two

remands of this case—I did hot ask her husband for 15s.—he said he was waiting for some friends to pay it—he made the offer to me, not I to him—I refused it

ELIZABETH COWLAND . I am the prosecutor's wife—On Saturday, 6th October, I put the box in the cupboard about 5 o'clock—there were five sovereigns in it, wrapped in a piece of paper—I took the box from my husband, and put it in the cupboard—I did not take anything out of it—I never opened the box—I know it was there on Monday, I saw it safe about 5 o'clock in the evening—on the evening of 8th October the prisoner asked me if I would go for a walk—I said I had no objection to do so when I had put my children to bed—she asked me if I had my bonnet and shawl down stairs—I said, "Yes"—she said she would go up and put her bonnet and shawl on—she went up—I put my bonnet and shawl on and went out with her, and returned a little before 8—when I got back I found my husband's coat on the stairs—she said, "What is there?"—I put my hand and felt, and thought it was like a coat—I said it was my husband's coat—I went upstairs, and went in the first place to the cupboard, and the box was missing—the prisoner went into her room and said her things had been taken—immediately my husband came in I called him up stairs, and said everything was gone—he came and looked in the cupboard for some time, and I asked him to go for the police—on the Wednesday, about 1 or 2 o'clock, after dinner, the prisoner came to my room, and saw my husband's things on the table—I said to her, "My husband is gone to the magistrate again, he won't let this matter rest;" and I said I should go to an astrologer—she said, "I would not do so on any account, I should be frightened at an astrologer."

Cross-examined. Q. What time in the afternoon was this? A. I think it was between 1 and 2 o'clock—there are not two parts in the cupboard—the walls are smooth all round—there are not two pieces which project; it is level with the wall inside and outside—when I found the money had been taken I did not say, "O dear, O dear, here are 6l. gone"—my lock was in a bad condition, and the street-door lock was not good, but I believe her locks were good—she might have said something about them, but she did not complain.

JOSEPH GALE (Policeman, R 270). I received information of this robbery and went to the house—I searched the cupboard on the Tuesday morning thoroughly—there was no paper containing money there—I took the prisoner in custody on the Thursday morning, and took the box; the prisoner was searched—the female searcher found a purse on her and a knife broken at the point—the box appeared to have been forced open—the prisoner said, "On Sunday week my brother, came to see me and I gave him some things; I was afraid my husband would find it out and I went to the next room, and opened the box and put the money by the side in the cupboard to make it appear that a robbery had been committed"—this is the box—it appears as if a knife had been inserted where these marks are.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you say anything about the marks on the box when you were examined before? A. No; the prisoner did not say to me that she took the money out of the box and put it round the corner—I do not recollect her saying anything about the corner—she said she had thrown the box outside to make it believed that a robbery had been committed—I am not aware that there are two projections in the cupboard.

The prisoner received a good character.

GUILTY .—Recommended to mercy by the Jury.— Confined Four Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-898
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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898. WILLIAM RUPERT (33), and DENNIS MURPHY (25) , Stealing I inkstand, of Charlotte Carroll.

MR. LANGFORD conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS CARROLL . My mother, Charlotte Carroll, keeps a stationer's shop in Artillery-place, Woolwich—On Saturday night, 29th September, the two prisoners came to the shop about 7 o'clock—Murphy asked for a pennyworth of note-paper, and Rupert also asked for a pennyworth of note-paper—they were served and went away—in about seven or ten minutes after they were gone, I missed an ink-stand—I had seen it safe about ten minutes before they came in—the ink-stands were close to Rupert—I went to the guard room and gave information to Sergeant McDonald—Murphy was searched and the ink-stand was found on him—it is my mother's.

JOSEPH MCDONALD . I am a sergeant of the Royal Marines at Woolwich—I was serjeant of the guard on that night when the last witness came, a little after 7 o'clock—I had searched Murphy previous to the witness coming—I found on him a shirt, some writing paper, some thread, and this inkstand—Murphy told me Rupert had given him the ink-stand—Rupert said nothing.

Rupert. As we came oat of the shop he had a small parcel—I asked him what he had got, and he said an inkstand. GUILTY .

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-899
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

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899. WILLIAM RUPERT and DENNIS MURPHY were again indicted for stealing a shirt, value 2s. 9d., the property of Sarah Hobson.

MR. LANGFORD conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES HOBSON . I live with my mother, Sarah Hobson, an outfitter at Woolwich—On Saturday, 29th September, the two prisoners came to her shop a little before 7 o'clock—I saw them buy some thread of my mother, and after they were gone I missed the shirt—I saw it safe just before they came in—I went and gave information to the sergeant—I saw him search the men, and he took this shirt from Murphy—it is my mother's.

JOSEPH MCDONALD . On that Saturday night Hobson came between 7 and 8 o'clock to the guard room—I took the prisoners in custody, searched them, and found this shirt and the other articles on Murphy—Murphy said he had picked the shirt up in the street—Rupert was present but said nothing.

RUPERT— GUILTY .— Confined Six Months

MURPHY— GUILTY .— Confined Two Months.

The serjeant stated that Rupert's character was bad in the regiment, and Murphy's very good.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-900
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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900. JOHN CROWLEY (29) , Feloniously forging and uttering an acceptance to a bill of exchange, with intent to defraud.

MR. METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS FARNCOMBE CHORLEY . I am a solicitor—On 6th August the prisoner came to my office in Moorgate-street—I had been employed against the prisoner for a client, and there was about 14l. due from the prisoner to our firm—he brought this bill and said, "I regret, Mr. Chorley, that I can't hand you cash as agreed; I am exceedingly pressed, and I shall be obliged if you will be good enough to take this and hold it, instead of the instalment which I ought to pay;" and hand me 5l.—I took the bill and gave him a cheque for 5l.—I said, "Who is the acceptor?"—he said, "He is a very respectable man, a carpenter and coffee-house keeper, residing at Woolwich, near the railway-station; he accepted this bill in my presence this morning

—the bill was returned dishonoured and I communicated with the prisoner—he called on me and I told him the acceptor had called upon me, that I had shown him the bill and that he said, after minutely examining it, "I am not able to write so well as that; I am no scholar; I don't know anything about it"—the prisoner said, "That is all nonsense, it has been paid by two instalments"—I said, "That is very strange as you said it was an accommodation bill"—he said, "It is all right, it is an accommodation bill; it should have been repaid but it has been forgotten"—(read:) "August 6th, 1860; one month after date pay to my order the sum of 10l., for value received. John Crowley; accepted, John Williams."

Cross-examined by MR. JONES. Q. He said this Mr. Williams was a carpenter and coffee-house keeper? A. Yes—he stated that at the time he offered me the bill—he said he lived a few yards from the railway—I did not say to him, "I will write to Mr. Williams and see if it is all right"—I let him have the 5l.; he did not give me any memorandum—he handed me a promissory note payable on demand, and upon that promissory note I lent him 5l.—I believe the prisoner is a plumber and glazier, and I believe in a large way of business—after this I wrote to Williams to say the acceptance was coming due—I wrote to him three days before it was due; on 9th September—I wrote to him on 6th September, and took proceedings against him on 24th September—I went to the acceptor's house and saw a woman who I believe was the acceptor's wife, I produced the bill to her—she said, "I have not got any instructions;" and as this had been presented by a notary I wrote "no instructions."

MR. METCALFE. Q. The sum due to you was 14l. and this bill was given you in part payment? A. Yes.

JOHN WILLIAMS . I am a carpenter, of Woolwich, and keep a coffee-house—this is not my signature to this bill—I never signed a bill in my life nor had any bill transactions with anybody—I did not authorize the prisoner or any one to sign this, nor did I know of its being done—I received a letter from Mr. Chorley and I saw the prisoner the day after I received the letter—I asked him how he came to sign my name to a bill—he said, "It is all right, I have settled it; I was pushed one day and signed it"—I received this letter—I don't know the prisoner's writing.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you had an acquaintance with the prisoner some time? A. Yes, about eighteen months—I received a letter from Mr. Charley, it has not had any answer—directly afterwards I saw the prisoner—I received a communication afterwards that the money was not paid—I have been in custody; I was charged with misdemeanour.

COURT. Q. You had a letter and you sent to the prisoner? A. Yes—it was a letter for 10l., saying I had to pay it on account of Mr. Chorley—I sent the letter to him—that was before the writ

MR. JONES. Q. You saw Mr. Chorley about this bill? A. Yes, I went to him; he shewed me the bill; I said I knew nothing about it—there was no hesitating—I said I knew nothing about it.

EDWARD COX (Policeman, 49 R). I arrested the prisoner—I told him he was charged with forging the name of John Williams to a bill of 10l.—he made no reply.


Before Mr. Recorder.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-901
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

901. WILLAM TURPIN (20) , (a soldier) Stealing a pair of trousers, value 7s. 6d., the property of Thomas Edward Turner.

THOMAS EDWARD TURNER . I keep a clothier's shop in Plumstead-road—

these trousers (produced) are mine—I saw them safe at my door, and missed them two minutes afterwards—I saw the prisoner running away with them on his arm, and the lad running after him—I overtook him, brought him back, and gave him in custody—he said that they were not mine, and he should not give them to me—they have my mark on them—he was quite sober—I had been watching him three-quarters of an hour.

CHARGES PILCHER . I am in the service of the last witness—I was minding his shop on this Saturday night—the prisoner came up and said, "That is a nice pair of trousers"—I said, "Yes"—he said, "They are mine"—I said "If you do not put them down I shall call Mr. Turner"—he said "Well, I am off"—I called Mr. Turner, who ran after him.

ABRAHAM SMITH (Policeman, 111 R). The prisoner was given into my custody—I asked him how he came by the trousers—he said, "I stole them"—I said "Where did you steal them from?"—he said, "I bought them of a nauvy"—he was as sober as I am now—this ticket was pinned on them—I asked him for them, but he was very loth to part with them.

GUILTY Confined Four Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-902
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

902. THOMAS WHITE (18), and WILLIAM TURNER (19) , Stealing one pair of boots, value 16s. 6d., the property of John Upson; to which Turner PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Four Month.

JOHN UPSON . I am a boot and shoe maker of Plumstead—on Wednesday, 19th September, I was in my shop and saw the prisoners speaking to each other at the window—I then went into the kitchen, and had been seated there some few minutes, when I saw something pass round the door post—I went into the shop, went to the front door, and missed a pair of boots from outside the shop, which I had seen safe half an hour before—I looked into the street and saw the prisoners making away with great speed—I followed and took them—Turner had the boots—I charged them with the theft; they denied it.

White. Q. Did not I go on about twenty yards, and come back and ask what was the matter? A. I called to a navvy to assist in arresting you—there was no chance of your getting away—I had hold of Turner—you told me you knew nothing about the shoes—you walked to the station with me—you threatened the man, and said you would not be collared.

COURT. Q. Did you see them talking together before you went into the kitchen? A. Yes; conversing about these very boots—their attention was directed to them.

SAMUEL ARCHER (Policeman, 322 R). The prisoners were given into my charge.

White's Defence. I was passing down the street, and Turner asked me whether I wanted a job—I said I should be very glad of one—I was with him when I was taken, but I know nothing about the boots.

WHITE, GUILTY .— Confined Four Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-903
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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903. JAMES FURNESS (21) , Stealing 5s. in money, the property of John White, his master; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY Recommended to mercy by the prosecutor, on account of his good character— Confined Eighteen Months.


Before Mr. Baron Martin.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-904
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude

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904. JOHN MAHONEY (24), EDWARD CECIL (33), CHARLES BARTON (25), and HENRY HAYWARD (27), Burglariously breaking and entering the warehouse of Thomas Dives, and stealing therein 17 stamps, 17 pieces of paper, and 2s. in money, his property; to which Hayward

PLEADED GUILTY .— Ten Years Penal Servitude.

MR. SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM MAY . I reside at Battersea, and am manager and foreman to Thomas Dives, a miller—his mill is situated in Church-road, Battersea; it abuts on the river Thames near Battersea church—the mill is separated from the churchyard by a malt-house, belonging to Messrs. Watley's—I last saw the premises safe about half-past 8 o'clock on the Saturday night—I think it was 1st September—I secured the doors myself—I was called up the next morning about 5 o'clock—I found the door broken, and the premises had been entered by breaking the padlock and undoing the bolt—there was a lock and bar to the door; they broke the counting-house open, and then came to the drawers—the counting-house desk was not locked, because there was nothing but halfpence in it—I missed from it twopence and a counterfeit half-crown that had been there for years; some receipt stamps, and inland revenue stamps—my attention was brought to the water-butt on the same morning—the carter came to the stable and found there a jimmy, and different things in the trough, and I went to it and took them out—I found the jimmy, a kind of a small handspike, a boring bit, and a kind of life preserver, or whip with a large handle to it—I took them to the police-station—Sergeant Payne has them—this (produced) is the jimmy; this is the centre-bit, and this is the life preserver, or the handle of a whip it looks like—I had not seen these things on the premises before.

Barton. Q. What time did you lock the mill upon Saturday evening? A. half-past 8—I saw it secure everywhere, and another man on the premises went round with me—the keys were at my house—I left Knight at the mill after I went home—he does not lock the mill up at all—I leave them at work—they pull the door to—it is a spring lock—the lock is at the top of the door, at the back of the mill, inside the premises—there is also a bolt on the door, and an iron bar goes across.

JOHN KNIGHT . I went round with the last witness at half-past 8—I was with him when he came from fastening the doors—I was afterwards left on the premises at twenty minutes to 12 by the mill clock; everything was then perfectly secure as I always leave it.

Barton. Q. Did you see the premises locked up on the Saturday night? A. I went round and examined about 11 o'clock—I did not handle the lock to see that it was tight and safe—I did not stand more than eighteen inches, at the the most, from the lock when I looked at it—I occupied about two minutes in examining it.

WILLIAM HENRY JOHNSON . I resided at 1, Mary-street, Commercial-road, till within the last day or two—I was residing there at the time of this occurrence—I am a waterman and boat owner on the river Thames—on the night of 1st September the prisoners Barton and Hayward came down and hired a boat just to row about for half an hour or an hour—it was then about half-past 8 o'clock—it was named the Metropolis—I next saw my boat on the Sunday—it was then in possession of the police.

Barton. Q. Do you say that I hired the boat of you? A. Yea—I will swear that you did—when anybody hires a boat of me, they mostly give a shilling deposit at the time they hire it—I lent the boat to both of you, just to row about—you gave me nothing.

HENRY STIRLING (Policeman, B 289). I was on duty in the Battersea-road

on Sunday morning, 2d September—about half-past 1 o'clock in the morning, as I was "walking along Church-road, I saw four men—I see three of them now, Mahoney, Barton, and Hayward—they went in the direction of Battersea Old Church—I followed them, I should think about 100 yards, till I lost sight of them about the end of the church wall—they went down towards the dock which runs alongside the lower end of the church-yard—I went back to Phoenix Wharf, where I had a view of the river—I there saw five men in a boat—I believe that is the boat which I have since ascertained to be the Metropolis—they were just coming gently up towards the wall; not rowing—they had no oars or sculls in their hands, but were coming gently up towards the land—I went and met Sergeant Payne—I returned with him—when he and I got to the Phoenix Wharf we saw the five men close under the wall of Mr. Dives' mill, in the boat—there were seven or eight barges near the wharf, but not lying close up to the premises—there was an open space between the barges and the wall, enough for a boat to go in between—Sergeant Payne then left me a little while to procure further assistance—while he was gone I kept watching the proceedings—before he left me, four men out of the five got out of the boat on to the landing-place of the wharf, and went to a door at the rear of the mill—they stopped there a second or so, and I heard a slight noise-directly afterwards, the four entered the mill; the fifth remained in the boat—I supposed they entered through a door; it was in a line with me, and upon subsequent examination I found that it was a door into the mill—these four men remained in the mill, I should say, about five minutes; it may be a minute or two more, I will not say exactly—I observed the boat during the whole time they were in—the fifth man did not remain in the boat all the time they were in—one of the four came out again and assisted him in getting on to the landing, and he went in—after they had been in the mill some little time, the five men came out again, and stood on the landing-place outside the mill—two out of the five got into the boat, one was Barton, I cannot say who the other was—after those two had been in the boat a minute or two, Sergeant Payne came up in the boat, and directly got on to the barge, and called out to me by name "Stirling"—I said, "I am here"—and I called to the other two constables who had arrived, Baker and Gennery—the two men, of whom I said Barton was one, were in a situation where they could see the approach of Payne in the boat-directly Sergeant Payne sang out to me, they began to run away—Barton got on to the barge and made for Bridge's coal wharf, adjoining Mr. Dives' flour mill—I immediately followed after him up the wharf, and apprehended him on a heap of coals about half way up the yard—on seeing me he said, "For God's sake don't hit me; be a man; I will go quiet"—I said, "It is all I want of you if you will do so"—I had my staff out—I called out to a constable in the front of the house, to look out—I opened the front gates of Bridge's wharf and went out into the main road—Gennery assisted in taking him down the road to the old church—we remained there some few minutes till Sergeant Payne came ashore from the boat with the prisoner Hayward—Sergeant Payne and I held the two prisoners some few minute, and directed Baker and Gennery to go in search of the other prisoners—I did not see anything of the other prisoners at the time I had Barton in custody, and was taking him out of Bridge's yard—it was afterwards that I saw them, while I was standing against the old church, with Barton and Hayward in custody—while standing there with them, I saw Mahoney come from the church wall on to the shore—he ran across the drawing dock

where they land goods; and just as ha got to the corner of Mr. Lintill's, the Swan public-house, he fell down by the water—he got up again and went to the rear of Mr. Lintill's premises and there I lost sight of him—I called Sergeant Payne's attention to that—I saw him again shortly afterwards in the custody of Sergeant Payne and Gennery—upon looking about at the spot where I seized Barton, I found a life preserver on the coals—Sergeant Payne has it—the same morning I searched the church-yard from which I saw Mahoney coming, and found this life preserver, and this other I found in Mr. Bridge's coal wharf—when I saw Mahoney come from the church-yard he was sitting on the wall; he jumped forward from the wall—I observed, when he was in custody afterwards, that he had a cut on the head—I examined it when we got to the station—it was a splendid night—the moon shone bright as any day.

Cross-examined by MR. JONES. Q. How far were you from the prisoners when you first saw them? A. They passed me, close between me and the lamp-post, on the same side of the way as I was—I could see them coming; that caused me to stop—I had no cause of suspicion any more than seeing them on the road a few minutes before—the rays of the lamp fell on all of us; upon me as well as the rest—there were other barges on the river—I saw no bargemen this night sleeping in their barges; there may have been, but those are a kind of barge that men do not sleep in—I lost sight of them in a few minutes, and afterwards saw four men get out of a boat and one remain in it, who got out some little time afterwards—the prisoners were in the mill during that time—I stated before the Magistrate that I was fifty yards from the door of Mr. Dives' mill, as near as I could guess, when I saw them go into it; but it is only thirty-five yards, I have since measured it—there was only a thin boarding, about five feet high, I should say, intervening between me and the door—I was against the boarding, not peeping over it, but through a crack in the joints of it—the moon was shining all the time—there was no lamp between that crack and the door—I should think the nearest lamp behind me was from forty to fifty yards off, in the main road—the mill was in such a position that the light of the moon fell on the door—it lights up the whole of the rear of Mr. Dives' mill—his mill is on the south side of the Thames—the moon was shining more from the west than the south—they were looking on to the landing, which was in a line with me—this operation outside the door, was about three or four minutes taking place, I should think—there were two other men taken up and charged by the police—they were discharged—they were taken by other constables—I only speak to three of the prisoners—two others were taken up on suspicion and discharged, I believe—the churchyard wall, from the bed of the river is, I should think about eight feet high; it might be rather more, I have not measured it—I should not think it was as much as ten feet; put it at eight or ten feet—I found no ladder in the church-yard—this is not very far from the Swan public-house—there is ashed attached to the grounds of the Swan, used for drinking and smoking purposes.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Were you taken to the station when Cecil was in custody? A. I was there, and was taken in to see Cecil—two other persons were placed, one on either side of him—one of those turned out to be a constable in plain clothes and the other turned out to be a cabman—I can't say what they put on him—I picked out the cabman-there is no doubt that he had nothing to do with it—he was not in custody at all—I thought he was like one of the men who is missing—I did not identify him as being the identical man.

Barton. Q. Will you swear to me as being one of those three men that passed you in the Church-road, Battersea? A. Yes; I can swear to you by a cut on the side of your eye—you were not half a foot from me—you brushed me as you passed me—you had a hat on at the time—the hat does not cover the scar—the brim of the hat does not come over it; it is an inch and a quarter below your eye—I was standing upright when I saw you pass—I distinctly saw that cut over your eye.

JAMES PAYNE (Policeman, 19 V). On Sunday, 2d September, about 2 o'clock, or a few minutes after, I saw Stirling at Phoenix-wharf—there was a boat there named the Metropolis, containing five men—they were rowing towards the back of Mr. Dives' mill, towards the head of some barges—it ultimately drew up between the barges and the wall—the man that was rowing stood up, and took hold of the chain fastening the barges to the shore—that was the prisoner Cecil—I saw Barton get out of the boat and ascend the bank towards the mill-door—he had something in his hand about two-feet long, which appeared like a stick—the others got out, one after the other—Mahoney and Hayward were two of them—I told Stirling to remain there till he saw me or heard from me again—I went away for assistance, and brought back a waterman named Coates in a boat—he rowed very fast, but very quietly, with his back towards the spot—I laid down in the boat, so that I should not be observed—I saw two men standing against the door—I could not say who they were, but Cecil was standing in the boat as when I left him before—I had a double opportunity of seeing his face, for the moon was shining brightly on it, and I turned my bull's-eye on him, not particularly to see him, but to look at the back of the mill—I saw him, at the same time I called out, "Look out, Stirling," because at that moment Barton ran in that direction—Sterling called out, "I am here"—I drove Cecil across the barges into the water—he went under the water, and I never saw anything more of him at that time—at that moment I heard Baker's voice from Mr. Dives' lawn calling out, "Look out, sergeant, here are two swimming in the water"—I called Coates, got into the boat, and said, "Row me to Mr. Watman's wall," that was in the direction of the voice—the tide was running so very fast, that I knew the men would not swim much against it—there are a number of piles which they might bring fast to, under the wall, and I saw Hayward hanging there, with part of his head above the post, dripping with water—he said, "For God's sake do not hurt us, sergeant, I am very nearly drowned"—in endeavouring to get him off the post the boat very nearly capsized, and I tumbled into the water with him—about six or ten minutes after, I landed again and saw Sterling standing in the churchyard with Barton in custody, but I was not in the churchyard—I heard somebody call out terrifically, at the back of the church as if they were being knocked about, and one of the prisoners, I believe Hayward, said, "What a b—shame to knock a man about like that," judging that it was a policeman knocking the prisoners about—I saw Dunnaway coming, and said, "Go and see what is the matter, Dunnaway" he jumped over the wall—about a minute or more afterwards I saw Mahoney running across the churchyard, and heard some voice say, "Come on"—I cannot say who it proceeded from—I saw Mahoney jump out of the churchyard into, the dock—I saw the constable Baker come out of the churchyard, bleeding very much from the head—his trousers were covered with blood—it was about ten minutes or a quarter of an hour after that, that I took Mahoney—I could not leave my prisoners, and he had disappeared for five or six minutes—I called to Coates, and went to the back of the premises

and apprehended Mahoney in the coal-hole—after I had taken the prisoners to the station I examined Mr. Dives premises—the door was then shut, but the lock was lying down in the passage—I found one lucifer match before I went into the counting-house—the counting-house door was standing open.

Cross-examined by MR. JONES. Q. How far was the boat from the shore? A. Twelve or fifteen yards—it was a very clear moonlight night—I could see the men working on the other side of the river—the coal-hole was not a shed—it would not hold above two tons of coal, unless something was put up—it was not a shed for smoking and drinking—you would have to get over an eight or ten foot wall to get to that—this was at the back of the private house—there was a yard between the Swan and that—the cries I heard were not in the direction of the Swan—I should think this was somewhere about half-past 2, or it might be near 3; I know it was 4 o'clock before we got to the station—there is no entrance leading from that yard to the Swan—I swear that there was a struggle in the churchyard before I apprehended Mahoney—I could not see whether there was a struggle with Sterling, as the wall was between us—I heard no cries.

Cross-examined by MR. LLOYD. Q. When the man held on by the chain, was his face towards you? A. No, his back—I have not said that that man was Barton—I saw that man get into the water, and saw no more of him—he was not drowned that I am aware of, he went in over head, and I did not stop to see whether he came up again, as I went for assistance—I do not think he was drowned—the identification was nearly six weeks afterwards—he was placed between a policeman and a cabman—it turned out to be a policeman dressed in a dark coat—I did not know it at the time.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Have you any doubt he was the man you saw that night? A. Not the slightest—I had previously given a description of him to policeman Dunnaway, when I went into the room, and the three men were together—no one indicated anything to me—I did not know but what they were all three prisoners—I have no doubt about Cecil being the man.

COATES. I live at Wharf Cottages, Battersea—On Sunday morning, 2d September last, I was called up by Sergeant Payne, about two o'clock, and rowed him in my boat towards Mr. Dives' mill—when we got to the mill I saw another boat, which I have since ascertained to be called the "Metropolis"—there was one man in it—it was under the mill when I and Sergeant Payne rowed up in my boat—I cannot recognise the man that was in the boat—there was one man on the wharf—Sergeant Payne got out for a moment from my boat, and then I afterwards rowed him towards Watley's wharf—I there saw Hayward—the sergeant himself fell into the water—I afterwards rowed the sergeant and another constable to the back of the Swan, in my boat—they took a man in custody there and brought him into my boat—I cannot say exactly who that was—I found a hat in the bottom of the "Metropolis"—I gave it to Inspector Lovely.

GEORGE GENNERY (Policeman, 391 V). On Sunday, 2d September, I heard screams from the direction of the churchyard—I went in the direction of the screams—about 2 o'clook in the morning I was on duty in Bridge-road, Battersea, and saw Sergeant Payne running down the Bridge-road—I went to meet him—he told me to get assistance and go to Dives' wharf—I went there—when I got over the palings I saw a man in a boat close to the barges—I took Baker with me—I said to him, "We are in the wrong; we must go back to the wharf"—we went to the wharf and there I saw Stirling on the look out—he said, "They are inside, at work"—after waiting a few minutes Stirling said, "Look out at the front"—I passed the word to Baker

and he went out at the front—presently I heard a loud whistle in the ground in front of the mill, and some one called out, "Look out"—I heard some one running towards the wall in the Church-road, and as if some one was jumping down—I then heard a noise in the direction of the Phoenix wharf, and saw Stirling bring out the prisoner Barton—Baker came up to him and said, "Is that you?" and went in the direction of the churchyard—I waited a few minutes, till Sergeant Payne came with Hayward—I was going in the direction of Dives' mill afterwards, and then I heard a load scream—I leaped over the churchyard wall, and then saw Mahoney run from Baker—I went up to Baker—he said, "Make haste, he has run round the back of the church"—I ran round the front, thinking I should meet him, but he ran under the darkness of the wall, and I could not see him just at that minute—some one outside the churchyard palings said, "Go it, Gennery, you must have him!"—the prisoner Mahoney, who was on the churchyard wall, then turned round and said, "Yes, come on!"—I was present when he was apprehended—I then jumped over the wall again, and got on to the road, and went in search of him—I went round to Dives' mill, got into the boat Coates was in, and went in the direction of the Old Swan-going along, Sergeant Payne said, "Let me come with you," and he came into the boat—we got out of the boat—I saw where some water had dropped, and followed up the track—it appeared as if some one had got over the wall—Sergeant Payne got over the wall first, and I got on the wall with him—we there found the prisoner Mahoney in a dust-hole or coalhole—he was there secured—when we were in the reserve room at the station, Mahoney said that, if he knew what I was going to do, he would have broken my b—y neck, coming down the wall—when I first saw him, he was, I should think, four or half a dozen yards from Baker.

Cross-examined by MR. JONES. Q. Was Baker running after him? A. No—he was staggering, about like a man insensible—it was in the church-yard that I first saw Mahoney—there is a tolerable quantity of upright tombstones in the churchyard; no yew trees, or other trees—I believe there is a door to this dust-hole—it is not a sort of a shed—when I first saw Mahoney behind the wall, he was in the custody of Sergeant Payne—I was on the wall when Sergeant Payne took him—I did not say that when I first saw Mahoney I saw him in the dust-hole—I saw him first behind the church—I first saw him when he was captured, at the back of the house, near the Old Swan public-house—that is where the dust-hole or coal-hole is—I cannot say whether that belongs to the Old Swan: it is the yard adjoining the Old Swan—I did not notice at the moment that there is a shed close by it—I do not know of a shed that belongs to the premises of the Swan—I have not been to examine the premises since—I did not examine them the next morning—I can't say that there is another shed beside the dust-hole—Mahoney appeared to be sober—I Struck him with my staff not so much so that he bled—I did not strike him on the head; I did on the shoulders—he struggled with me at first—I did not strike him more than once—I will swear I did not strike him on the head—he was afterwards dragged on to the boat—I struck him after he had got on to the land—I had hold of him, and he was wriggling his hand about as if trying to get away—we had just got to the boat to go to the back of the Old Swan—we got into the boat and afterwards I pulled him out of the boat on to the land.

WILLIAM BAKER (Policeman, V 215). On the morning this occurred, a little before 2 o'clock, I was called to the assistance of sergeant Payne—I saw Mahoney and Hay ward getting over a wall—they remained on the wall a short

time and they got down again when they saw me on the road—I then went through a trap-door into the yard—I followed them across a little green into the yard and they jumped into the river Thames—I went round into the road, down the road, thinking they would come out at the opening against the church—I looked along the side of the wall—it was very moonlight—I could see any one in the water—I got over the churchyard wall—on the wall I saw wet marks as though some one had just got out of the river—I searched round the churchyard for a few minutes and saw Cecil concealed behind a tombstone—I was in the act of advancing towards him, when Mahoney sprung on me suddenly and knocked me down—he struck me with what appeared to be a stick with a round knob at the end of it—I had had an opportunity to see Cecil distinctly—he got up just as Mahoney struck me—Mahoney knocked me down—I sprung to my feet again and struck him with my staff—I took hold of him, told him that I was a police constable, and that he was my prisoner—he made me no answer but continually kept striking me—Cecil ran away towards the river Thames—I was beaten very severely till I was rendered quite insensible—I was in the hospital for a month—after I had partially recovered, I went to the police-station and there saw four men—I identified Cecil amongst those four—he had not previously been pointed out to me at all, or anything of that kind—I have not the least doubt on my mind about his being the man.

Cross-examined by MR. JONES. Q. You say you saw Mahoney get over a wall; how near were you to him? A. I saw him get on to the top of the wall—I was quite close to him; just under, looking up at him—the wall was adjoining a road, on the north side of the road—there were no trees over the wall, nor on the opposite side of the road—there were buildings on the opposite side of the road—Mahoney sprung on me so suddenly that I bad not time to be on my guard—I received the blow almost before I saw him, and that knocked me down at once—a desperate struggle ensued—I struck him and he kept striking me.

Cross-examined by MR. LLOYD. Q. Was Cecil behind a tombstone when you saw him? A. Yes; when I was struck I was about a yard from him; almost near enough to catch hold of him—there were three others when I identified him afterwards at the police-station—they were all dressed in working clothes; differently dressed—they were not all dressed in white jackets—one was dressed in a kind of dark grey jacket—Cecil was dressed in a dark jacket something similar to what he has on now.

ARTHUR WILLIAM DUNN AWAY (Policeman, H 129). I apprehended Cecil at Whitechapel—I told him the charge on which I took him—I ultimately took him to the station—on the road to the station, he said to me, "What does the man say that I done?"—I said, "What man?—he said, "The man that was knocked about so, does he say that I beat him too?"—I said, "Oh! he can't say that; he has not seen you"—he said, "Well, Mr. Dunnaway, I hope I shall have fair play and be put among some others to be identified;" I said, "Yes, you shall;" he said, "Well I always heard that of you, Dunnaway, that you were a fair man;" he said, "How many do they say were in this job?;" I said, "Five;" he said, "How many have they got?; "I said, "Three;" he said, "Then they want another beside me"—the constable that was with me in the cab said, "No, they say one of them was drowned;" the prisoner said, "Do they say that I was the one that was drowned?;" I said, "No, they can't say that because you are here"—that was all the conversation—I had known Cecil before, about Battersea—I had not seen him about Battersea at the time of the robbery—I had not seen

him at all at Battersea between the time of the robbery and the time of my taking him into custody.

Cross-examined by MR. LLOYD. Q. What was the description you had received from sergeant Payne? A. He told me that he was a tall young man, dressed in a dark monkey jacket or a dark coat—that was the only information—he was pretty well known, I believe.

Barton's Defence. Do you believe that the constable could stand there and distinguish me with my hat on? May says that the door was barred up and padlocked, with two bolts; do you think they could be undone without somebody doing it inside? it is quite evident that it must have been done by somebody inside, as the bar went across the middle of the door; it must have been broken, if it had been forced by a crowbar, but there was no mark on it; the padlock had been forced out of the hasp, and then the door shoved open, and the policeman says that the door was open and we went in; it would have taken longer than that to force the door open; he was standing fifty yards away, and saw us go into the mill; do you think if he was looking through a crack, he could see whether we went into the mill, or alongside of it into the yard?

MR. LLOYD called the following witnesses.

JOHN FUSSELL . I am a licensed victualler of Great George-street, St Phillip's, Bristol—I know Cecil, he was brought to my house by another man on Saturday evening, 1st September—they asked if I could accommodate two of them with a lodging—I am quite sure it was 1st September, because it was Bristol fair day, and that is the reason I recollect so well—I had never seen Cecil before, but am quite certain that he is the man—I have kept that house thirteen years the 4th of last March.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Was he a perfect stranger to you? A. Yes; he was brought by a young man who used to come in for a glass of beer, and who I only knew as William—he introduced Cecil to me, and another man with him, a tailor, marked with the small-pox, and who had a cast in his eye—he was not in the habit of frequenting my house—all three came together; it was about 7 in the evening—I came up from Bristol on Tuesday with the young man who brought Cecil to my house, but I only knew him as William; I never asked him his surname—he called on me on Friday last, and asked me if I could recollect two parties who lodged at my house on September 1st—he did not remind me of it being Saturday; he asked me if I could tell him the day it was on—I said, "Yes; it was Saturday, 1st September"—it is a mistake if I said that he told me it was 1st September; what he asked me was, if I could recollect when he brought the two young men for lodgings, if I could remember the day of the month; and I said, "Yes, 1st September"—I had heard nothing about this young man from 1st September till last Friday—Cecil slept there that night, and got up on the Sunday morning, and he had breakfast about 10 o'clock—about 11 o'clock, he asked me to open the door, that they might get a walk round the town; and he said, what time should I open in the afternoon: I said, "Not before 5"—they went and had a walk, and came in afterwards, and had a pint of beer, and I had my supper—he stayed in the house every night till the Friday following, 7th September—the young man who introduced him did not stop at my house; he is a resident at Bristol—I do not know what he is, but I believe he is a smith, and follows the enginework—I have seen him rather dirty when he comes in to have a glass of beer—I don't know in whose employment he is—I have a wife and family; I have no potman; my mistress waits in the bar, and I wait in the tap-room in the evening—my

wife is not here, nor my servant, nor any one who made Cecil's bed every night—the young man who called on me on Friday last had been living at Bristol some days—no one from London called on me, only that young man—a third party came up from Bristol—a young woman, I believe, came up in company with him, but she was a perfect stranger to me—we all came up in the same compartment of the railway carriage—I do not know the young woman's name; we met her at the railway-station at Bristol, to come up to London, on Tuesday last—she had never been in my house; I never saw her before in my life—I did not know that she was coming up till I met her at the railway-station—there was no one with the young man when he called on me—I had no communication with him between Friday and Tuesday—he only asked me if I had any objection to come up, if my fare was paid, and that the young man was quite innocent—I said that I should have no objection—I keep a few books, for a little credit, or anything like that—I have no book or memorandum with me, to show that Cecil was boarding at my house between 1st and 7th September—I never asked Cecil his name—I let out two beds—there was no other person lodging in the house at the time—I did not ask the young man who came on Friday last what his name was—I did not even ascertain who I was coming up to speak about—I do not believe the young man visited at my house while Cecil was there: he came on the Monday, and asked if Cecil had gone out: I said "Yes," and he had a glass of beer, and went out—I saw Cecil every day during the week, but not the young man who brought him to lodge—I made Cecil up a bed every night myself—I do not know what Cecil did; he went out, after he had washed and had his breakfast, saying that, he was going to a friend's house—I did not see him again till late in the evening—William once called, and said, "Are the two young lodgers awake?:" I said, "I do not think they are"—the second lodger was a young man with him—I have only two beds to let out—I had no other lodger during the week, but there was another young man with this one, and they both slept in the same bed; that was a tall young man, marked with the small-pox, and with a cast in his eye—I have never seen him since—he and the prisoner stayed together some days, and went away together—I do not know the name of either of them.

MR. LLOYD. Q. Is your wife looking after the business at home? A. Yes, she requires the assistance of the servant, we only keep one, and id the evening she goes to bed with the children and I attend to the tap—I very seldom take the liberty of asking lodgers names—my books are at Bristol—I have not the slightest interest in this matter.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. When did you see Cecil after coming to town? A. Not at all till now.

WILLIAM HATHAWAY . I am an engine-fitter and mechanic of 45, Dale-street, Bristol—I know Cecil—that is him, the second one—I last saw him about 7th September—I also saw him on 1st September, Bristol fair day—I am quite certain it was the first—he mentioned seeing a lot of horses, to me, when he came in, and I told Kim that it was the fair day—I had never seen him before—he did not come to see me, but I was lodging in the house where he came, Mr. Curtis'—that is how I became acquainted with him—I saw him on the next day, Sunday.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you in business for yourself? A. Yes, but not very large—I take in plating for shoemakers—Mr. Curtis keeps a private house—Cecil did not come and take the same lodging—he knew a woman, Mrs. Rouse, who lived there, and rented apartments, and I was asked to go

and get this lodging—she is here—she came up with me from Bristol; but I came up on Monday evening, and she came up on Tuesday—Mr. Fussell came up with me on the Monday evening, and the young woman on the Tuesday morning—if anybody tells you that we both came up on Tuesday morning, I should contradict them, and if anybody says that the female came up with both of us, all in the same compartment on Tuesday morning, I should contradict that—I live regularly at Mrs. Curtis'—I took Cecil to Mr. Fussell's and saw him two or three times of an evening, after working hours, during the first part of the week—I never stayed there a night—I did not go to see him at Mr. Fussell's—he called at my place, Mrs. Curtis'—Mrs. Curtis is not here—Cecil stayed at Mr. Fussell's nearly the whole of the week—the last time I saw him was on Friday evening—I do not know what his business was—I did not even know his name, nor did he know mine—Cecil came to see Mrs. Rouse—she is a tailoress, and her husband is a soldier in India—I am no relation to him—I called at Mr. Fussell's once only between Saturday and Friday—that was in the evening—I did not go there and dine with him one day—I never was there but once, and that was on Wednesday evening, but I am not positive—I did not call on Monday, about dinner-time, and ask Mr. Fussell where the young man was—I know that he and another young man lodged there—I have never seen the other man since the Friday—I have been into Fussell's house two or three times—he did not know what I was, any more than any other customer going to have a glass of beer—he did not know my name—I heard of Cecil being in trouble, last Friday—I went to Fussell's on the Friday evening, because Mrs. Rouse received a letter—I asked him if he remembered a young man, or two young men that I had brought there to ask for a lodging, and he said he did—I told him that they had got into trouble, and he would be very likely wanted to prove that they were at his house, if he would be kind enough—he said that he did not like leaving his business, but he would do so; and I went and told Mrs. Rouse—nothing further was said than that he had got into trouble—I said nothing to Fussell about when it was—I asked him if he remembered the day they were there, and he said "Yes, perfectly well"—I asked him when it was, and he said something about having some pigs die; that Cecil entered into conversation about it; and he perfectly remembered his coming down on the Saturday before—I cannot say when the pigs died—nothing was said by him or by me as to what the day of the month was—we did not fix it as the Saturday before the pigs died, but I knew when he did come—I never mentioned 1st September to Fussell, but he said it was 1st September—I asked him if he could remember the day, and he said "Yes, it was 1st September," fair day; that was on Friday evening—I did not see him again before Monday evening, when we all came up to town—I only sent for him—I never saw him at all between those days—I cannot say when the 1st September was mentioned; whether it was on Friday evening or Monday evening, on the way to town, or after we got hew—he never asked me if I could recollect the day, and I never asked him if he could remember it—I have not been paid any expenses for coming up here, but I am in hopes of having my expenses paid up and down—I suppose I must look to the wife—I am a working man, and cannot afford it—I paid Mr. Fussell's expenses coming up, and my own—I was a stranger to Mr. Fussell till 1st September—I did not pay for Mrs. Rouse—she came up on Tuesday—on my oath we did not all come up on the Tuesday morning in the same compartment—if Mr. Fussell has sworn that we did, it is not true—if his account his correct, my account would be incorrect.

COURT. Q. Did you say that you made lasts for shoes? A. I plate them—I put iron soles on for rivetted boots—that is my business.

MR. SLEIGH having replied, Cecil requested Mr. Lloyd to call Mrs. Rouse..)

MARY ANN ROUSE . I live at 45, Dale-street, Bristol—I know Cecil—I saw him last in Bristol on a Saturday morning—he left Bristol on a Saturday, and called to see me before he went away—that was the Saturday before he came down from London—it was Bristol fair day; towards the afternoon—I was out when he first came, and he went to my mother's to ask for me.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Are you any relation of his? A. None at all—I am married—my husband is in India—I live at 45, Dale-street, which is kept by Mrs. Curtis—my mother lives at 23, Thrune-street—I have a little girl nine years old—I have known Cecil since August; but I came up to London by excursion train to see some friends, and while I was at my friend's house, Cecil came in—a young friend was telling me that she should come to Bristol, and Cecil said that if he came to Bristol he would call on me—I told him to do so, which he did, and called at my mother's first—there was a young man with him whom I never saw before—I saw him through the week till the Saturday following, when they both left, I believe, together—I was told that his name was Edwin Cecil, and that he was in the coster-mongery line, and kept a fruit shop—I do not know what he was doing in Bristol—I did not ask him his business—he came to my house on the Sunday morning after, and as it was near dinner time I asked him to stay, and he stayed to tea, and his friend with him, as I did not like to ask one without the other—I do not know what has become of the other—I understand that Cecil came to Bristol to try to buy a pony—I know Mr. Eussell by being a publican—he lives a little distance from me—I never heard the friend's name—I did not hear Cecil address him—he only waited a few moments in my apartments—the friend stayed to dinner and tea, and yet I never heard one speak to the other by name—I think I went once to Fussell's during the time Cecil lodged there—I know Hathaway—I first knew him eight or ten years ago—he lodges in the same house with me—I introduced Cecil to Hathaway—I had a letter last week stating that Cecil was in trouble—I came up to London last Tuesday morning—I left by the third class train at a quarter-past twelve—I came up alone—it is not true that Mr. Fussell came up with me—Mr. Fussell and Mr. Hathaway left on Monday night, and I came up on Tuesday morning—we did not come up together—I saw Fussell at eight o'clock at night at Paddington—I have not seen Cecil since he left Bristol till now—I paid my own expenses to London, and Cecil's wife says that she will pay me—she paid Mr. Hathaway's and Mr. Fussell's expenses, I believe—the money was not sent down—Mrs. Cecil paid them since—I went to Mrs. Cecil's house to tea last evening—Hathaway and Fussell were there, and she paid them their expenses—I cannot say how much—I did not spend the whole evening there—she lives in Dog-row, Whitechapel, I think they call it—I knew that Cecil was married—Cecil did not come down to see me—he had a companion with him, and I thought he came on business.



They were both further charged with having been before convicted.

PORTER WILLIAM DUNNAWAY (Policeman, H 129). I produce a certificate.

—(Read: Central Criminal Court, June, 1858; Charles Butcher, convicted of burglary, and confined two years)—I was present—Barton is the person.

TIMOTHY COX (Policeman, K 45)—I produce a certificate—(Read: Clerkenwell

Sessions, April 1856; John Hearn, convicted of stealing a watch and guard from the person. Confined fourteen months.)—Mahoney is the person.

MAHONEY—GUILTY.— Twenty Years' Penal Servitude.

BARTON—GUILTY.— Fifteen Years' Penal Servitude.

Before Mr. Recorder.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-905
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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905. JOHN DANIELS (39), and WILLIAM MARYON (30) , Stealing 2 bags and 2 bushels of barley, value 4s., the property of the Commercial Dock Company.

MR. LEWIS conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE JONES . I am a warehouse-keeper at the Commercial Docks, Rotherhithe—on 14th September, I saw the prisoners near the "F" ware-house about half-past 11 o'clock in the morning—I asked them what they were doing there—they said they were looking out for a job—I told them that was not the place to look for a job, and that they had better go about their business; in about half an hour I saw Daniels coming out of the warehouse, and Maryon from behind the warehouse—neither of them had a right to be. there—I went up to them and told them to walk out of the dock—they did so—on my way I went direct to the pile of deals close to the s. "F" warehouse, and saw two bags there—I examined them—they contained barley—there was barley in the "F" warehouse at that time—I examined the contents of the bags with the contents of the bulk in the warehouse, and the barley was similar in quality—the bags are here, and I have some of the bulk in my pocket—the bags do not belong to the company—upon finding the bags I said something to an officer, and he watched in consequence—the value of the corn is about 4s.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER Q. I believe it is not a very uncommon thing, is it, for men to walk about and ask for jobs in these docks? A. No; numbers do—they get more than a shilling a day, it is according to the nature of the work—I have known Daniels since he has been a boy—his character has been good up to this time, as far as I know—I believe he has maintained an old father and mother, 75 years old.

MR. LEWIS. Q. Do you know of instances of men asking for employment in warehouses? A. It is not the usual course to come into the warehouses.

HENRY BELLAMY . I have charge of the bags of the Commercial Dock Company—I watched some bags for half or three-quarters of an hour—the prisoners came up to them—Maryon took them from the pile and carried them to the fence, which is about ten or twelve yards, and deposited them on a pile of deals as near the side of the fence as could be—he followed me to the gate and outside the dock—Daniels undid a bag again—they had been tied together previously—I took the prisoners to the office, where Daniel said that he had got the pass for it, and that it was all right—no distance was saved by going that way—it was half a mile out of their way, if they were going to London with it.

Cross-examined. Q. Was it about fifty or sixty yards nearer to the steamboat? A. If they were going to the steamboat that would be the nearest way—I do not know whether that is a place where corn is sold—I never was on the market—they were going a different road to the market altogether—I saw them walk towards Deptford—that does not lead to the corn market or to the pier.

SAMUEL CONGDON (Policeman, M 16). I took the prisoners at a few minutes after 2 o'clock in the afternoon, and told them they were charged with stealing two bags of barley—they both said, "You have only got us on

suspicion—Daniels said nothing about being employed by a man named Benjamin Johnson.

Daniels' statement before the Magistrate was here read, at follows: "We were over the West India Dock—a man named Benjamin Johnson asked us if we would take over the two samples of barley, and take them to the Commercial Dock, and wait there till he came—we waited two hours—he did not come, and me and my mate said we would take the samples to market, as he did not come, and I handed the samples over the fence to save walking round."

NOT GUILTY .—(Daniels received a good character.)

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-906
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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906. JAMES WILLIAM HOWELL (29) , Feloniously 'forging and uttering a warrant for the payment of money with intent to defraud.

MR. CLARK conducted the Prosecution.

RICHARD DYSON . I am an accountant—on Friday, 24th August last I was engaged by the prisoner as a clerk, at a weekly salary, at Portsmouth Chambers—he professed to be the Secretary of a society for the abolition of imprisonment for debt—the business was purported to be carried on at those chambers—he said that Sir Richard Bethell was the promoter of it, and also Mr. Edwin James—on 28th August I had been to the Queen's Bench to see if any subscription had been paid in by Captain Hudson, and, immediately on my return, the prisoner produced this cheque (produced), and asked me to get it cashed—this is his endorsement, written in my presence—I believe the body of it to be his writing also, inasmuch as the E in Howell is the same in each—it is a sort of Greek E—he told me to endeavour to get it cashed—that it came by post, too late, from Sir Richard Bethell, and he could not pay it into the bankers—I took it to my friend Mr. knight, a publican in Vere-street, who said he could not conveniently spare the money as it was Saturday night—I said, "If you cannot get it cashed all I require is to borrow 1l. upon it, which will serve the purpose for this evening—I got 1l. from Mr. Knight, and gave it to the prisoner—I saw him again on the Sunday evening, and he made an appointment to meet me at half-past 9 on Monday morning, requesting me to come to the office half an hour earlier, as he had to go to the City to get some money from his bankers—he requested me to go to Mr. Knight, and ask him to retain the cheque till 11 o'clock, when he would return the 1l., and take Sir Richard Bethell's cheque and pay it into his bankers—he never came to the office, and I never saw him again till he was in custody a fortnight afterwards—I have never seen this envelope before, except in the hands of another gentleman—I have no doubt it is the prisoner's writing—(Cheque read: 25th August, 1860, Messrs. Coutts and Co. pay Mr. Howell 3l. 10s. R. Bethell.")

Cross-examined by MR. JONES. Q. Where have you carried on the business of an accountant? A. At 115, Cheapside, and in King-street, in partnership with Mr. Sandyman—I have been an accountant eighteen years at that place—I had an office in Essex-street, Strand—I was with Mr. Sandyman two years and a half, but left because he was going to manage a bank; after that I subsisted for two years, with the assistance of my friends; my wife has an income of her own, but I have been separated from her for nine years—she allowed me something during the two years that I was out of employment, perhaps to the extent of 40l. or 50l—it must have been more than 25l.—I have a large family, and my sons have given me occasional assistance—there is really a society for the abolition of imprisonment for debt, for I saw about 5,000 circulars which I was instructed to fold up and address, and

the last thing that Mr. Howell said was that when he came up he would afford me the names of the Committee—this cheque is endorsed, "Richard D. Dyson," that is my writing—I endorsed it when I gave it to Mr. Knight, whose house is scarcely two minutes' walk from the office—it did not strike me that the cheque was a forgery—I was so confident in Mr. Howell, that I did not think of opening the cheque—I believe that both these H's are Mr. Howell's writing—I do not know how the envelope became torn—there was some stationery there, 5,000 circulars, some ink-stands, a table, and two or three chairs which belonged to Mr. Tempany—I wrote several letters at the prisoner's direction to ask persons to allow their names to be placed on the list of the general committee—I do not recollect writing a letter to that effect to Sir Richard Bethell—the prisoner mentioned to me his intention of taking fresh offices—there was some desultory conversation passing between the prisoner and Tempany on Friday afternoon about it, but I paid little attention to it—I do not recollect what the cause of disagreement was—I do not know that there was a cause of disagreement—in consequence of some conversation, the prisoner expressed his intention of taking fresh offices—he requested me to call on the Monday morning, as I came to the office, to look at some offices, and give him my opinion of them—there was a clerk engaged I believe, as well as myself, in the office—there was a lad in the office for the two days I was there—I do not know his name—I supplied a bill sticker, named Fowler, with addresses—I did not see the envelope—I have been in a great deal of trouble—I have never been charged with any offence—I am quite positive as to that—I borrowed 1l. from Mr. Knight on that cheque—I did not get the cheque cashed—I did not first go to a Mr. Sickers'—I swear that I did not tell the prisoner that I got the money advanced at Mr. Sickers', or that I got it cashed by Mr. Sickers' foreman—I don't know Sickers' foreman.

MR. CLERK. Q. Did you inform the prisoner where you got the 1l.? A. Yes, and on the Sunday night I took the prisoner and introduced him to Mr. Knight, that he might give it back on the Monday morning—I was at the office to represent Howell—I never saw Sir Richard Bethell, or Mr. Edwin James, or any members of the committee, at the office—during the time between the prisoner's leaving me and my seeing him at the police-court, vast numbers of applications were made for payments for articles which had been sent there—none of the stationery was taken away by persons who had supplied it; it was left there in the office.

STEPHEN KNIGHT . I keep the Bull's Head, Vere-street—Dyson has been a customer of mine for several mouths—on Saturday evening, 25th August, he brought me a cheque—I wanted my money to give change, and I gave him 1l. as he pressed me for it—the cheque was left with me—next day, Sunday, the prisoner came with Dyson—he only said that he told Dyson to call on the following morning and put a stamp on it—I took the cheque to Messrs. Coutts' on the Monday morning and it was refused payment—this is it.

Cross-examined. Q. Then there was no stamp on the cheque when you advanced 1l. on it? A. No—I do not understand much about cheques—I have not cashed any lately—this is the first I have received or paid since I have been in that house—I have not paid money in cheques for the last twelve months—he requested Mr. Dyson to put a stamp on in my presence—there was no doubt thrown on the genuineness of the cheque at that time.

ANDREW JOHN TEMPANY . I am the proprietor of 15 and 16, Portugal-street, Lincoln's-inn-fields—the prisoner took offices of me on or about 20th

August—on Saturday, 25th August, he brought this cheque to me and asked me if I would cash it for him, and then if I could get it done for him—I looked at it and felt convinced that it was his own writing, and I think so still, to the best of my belief—he said that he had received it from Sir Richard Bethell—he had an envelope in his other hand which I paid no attention to; but my impression is that this is it—this stamp appears to have had a blot of ink on it, but not to have passed through the post—there is no post mark on it.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you make that observation to the prisoner at the time, that it was his own writing? A. No; I shrugged up my shoulders and said, No, it was no business of mine—I had not seen the prisoner for two or three years, till the Sunday evening previous—he came to my house on the Saturday and brought a gentleman with him, and on the Sunday evening he made an appointment with me to go to this gentleman's, Mr. Buddin's, house—he then said that Mr. Edwin James would find 1l. a week, and I should have half of it—the prisoner was to pay me rent for this office weekly—that was not contingent on the success of the association—I was not to give credit for the rent—I did not propose to the prisoner to go into partnership with him in a law agency—the address of the society was submitted to me in manuscript, and I objected to the form of it and suggested alterations—the prisoner did not advance me any small sums of money; but I paid some small sums for him, 2s. or 3s.—I did not ask him for letters—I took some of the letters to the Queen's Bench prison—I did not propose to act as the prisoner's clerk—I never entered his employment—I was repairing the chambers and fitting them up—I sometimes do something as an accountant; but I have been a'paper-hanger and have done painting and graining—I am only the occupier of the chambers; I rent the entire premises and let them out; the landlady is Mrs. White—I do not pay the rent of the houses—I have only possession of two of the houses at present, and my payments do not commence till I get the four—I have had them two years—I brought an action once against the Strand Board of Works for false imprisonment—I did not carry it—I abandoned it because I was a day too late, by accident; that was purely an accident—that imprisonment was for some work done at a house which had been out of my possession for twelve months—I will swear the body of this cheque is not in my writing—(The witness here wrote the words, "The Queen on the Prosecution of Sir Richard Bethell, Knt., and signed his name)—I could perhaps write a little better than that if I were to sit by your side—I do not know Mr. Corbatt—I know the Castle public-house in Portugal-street—I saw the prisoner there a fortnight or a month before he took the offices—I said that I had not been intimate with him for two years; it was incorrect if I told you I had not seen him for two years.

MR. CLERK. Q. What was said about Sir Richard Bethell? A. Much conversation took place between us—he said that there was a natural jealousy between Sir Richard Bethell and Mr. Edwin James, who should carry this bill—I was not aware at that time that Sir Richard Bethell was to take an active part in it.

JOHN WHITTINGTON (Policeman, F 37). I took the prisoner on 19th September, and found on him this pocket-book (produced)in which I found this portion of an envelope addressed, "J. W. Howell, Esq, 15 or 16, Portugalstreet, Lincoln's-inn-fields," with the initials, "R. B."in the corner—there is a postage stamp on it which has not been obliterated—there is only an ink mark on it.

SIR RICHARD BETHELL . I am Her Majesty's Attorney-General—I know nothing of the prisoner—I was not promoting any bill last August for the abolition of imprisonment for debt—I brought in a bill for the Consolidation of the Laws of Bankruptcy, which indirectly led to it—I never heard of any society being formed of which I was the chairman—I had not employed the prisoner in any way as secretary of any society—this cheque is not in my writing—I do not bank at Messrs. Coutts'—this envelope with "R. B." in the corner is not in my writing—I never gave the prisoner authority to sign any paper in my name.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you ever receive any circulars from thisoffice? A. I really cannot say—I have so many documents sent to me, that it is impossible to look at them—it is possible that my Secretary may have received such—I do not place any funds at my Secretary's disposal, to distribute at his discretion and account to me for.

GUILTY .— Four Years' Penal Servitude.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-907
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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907. JAMES THOMPSON (27) , Breaking and entering the dwelling-house of George Ninham Moon, and stealing therein a coat, waistcoat, pair of trousers, and other articles, his property.

GEORGE NINHAM MOON . I live at 4, Elizabeth-terrace, Blue-anchor-road—on Sunday, 27th September, about 7 o'clock, I went out leaving nobody in the house—I fastened it up securely—I returned about 12 at night, and I found things strewed all about the house, and a window broken, so that the catch could be opened—the drawers were broken open—I found the bolts of the yard door open, which I had left fastened—I missed a coat, waistcoat, pair of trousers, shirt, some spoons, and a tea-pot (produced).

JOHN WALKER . I live at 4, William's-terrace, Blue-anchor-road, a hundred and fifty yards from Mr. Moon, and keep a general shop—on the morning of 23d September, between half-past 9 and half-past 10, the prisoner came and asked if he could get any conveyance to Bermondsey police-station—I said "No"—he asked if I had any refreshment—I said "Yes, some gingerbeer," and he had a bottle—he had no handkerchief round his neck, but had it round a parcel which he had under his arm—he asked me for an old handkerckief, and I offered him a large newspaper, and thought he would take the handkerchief off the parcel and tie it round his neck—I heard a jingle of plate, which aroused my suspicion, and about ten minutes after he had left I gave information.

WILLIAM JAMES HUTCHINS (City-policeman, 478). I was sent for on 23d September, to 3, Bank-chambers, and found the prisoner there—he had a parcel with him, tied up in this red handkerchief, in which I found the property produced—I asked him how he came by it—he said that it was not his, but if he was let go, he would restore it to the lawful owner—the shirt was left at Mr. Hughes—it has the name of Thompson on it.

JOHN TIMOTHY HUGHES (Policeman, M 242). On Monday morning, 24th September, I was called to Mr. Moon's house, and found the clothes the prisoner now has on left there—he had left his clothes and dressed himself in others—I took him to Guildhall, and he claimed the clothes and put them on.

GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-908
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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908. JOHN JONES (23) , Robbery on John Darby, and stealing from his person 10s. 10d. his money.

JOHN DARBY . I was a stoker on board the Hull steamer, St. Petersburgh,

but she has sailed, and I was not able to go—on the morning of 20th September I had been to the play, and was returning to the vessel with both my hands in my pockets—I did not see a soul, and never heard a footstep, but I was seized by the throat, and another man seized me by the arms, while a third came and took my money out of my pocket—I had two two-shilling pieces, a shilling, a sixpence, two half-crowns, and a fourpenny bit—I struggled with one of the men, but being stronger he got away—I called "Stop thief!" and he was stopped—I had not lost sight of him—the prisoner is the man.

Prisoner. Q. Did not you state in the station-house that I was not the man, that you thought I was a detective? A. No; the inspector did not dismiss the case—I did say at first that I had lost 5s.—there was 5s. in my pouch—I have suffered so much that I have never been able to do a day's work since.

JOHN FITZGERALD (Policeman, M 223). I was on duty in High-street, Southwark, and saw the prisoner run from Union-street, followed by the prosecutor and two other men in the rear, who ran away—I followed the prisoner and apprehended him thirty yards up King-street—the prosecutor, who was close behind him, said he was not the man that took the money from him, but the man who had him by the throat—the prisoner said nothing—I took him to the station—I found on him this discharge from a Government prison in Ireland.

Prisoner's Defence. It is all false; the policeman has deprived my parents of getting me a Counsel; he told them not to have one, for he would keep the prosecutor away; and they had got the money all ready.

JOHN FITZGERALD (re-examined). I have never spoken to his parents.

GUILTY .— Four Years' Penal Servitude.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-909
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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909. THOMAS TREW (37) , Stealing 12 calf-skins, value 54l. of Thomas Young Learmonth, and another; Second Count, receiving the same.

MESSRS. SLEIGH and ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM DAVIS . I am a leather shaver in the employ of Thomas Young Learmouth and Mr. Roberts, leather-manufacturers, Page's wharf Bermondsey—there are four persons besides me employed in the shavingdepartment—a man of the name of Harrison was employed there with me—on Thursday, 16th August last, twenty dozen calf-skins went into the shaving-yard to be dipped and shaved—five dozen and a half of them were dipped on that day in the dye house—after we wetted them we took them up stairs again into the shaving shop—on the Tuesday following, in consequence of something said by my employers, I counted the skins, and found one dozen missing—they were in what we call a perishable state, spotted—they were not in a marketable state—Harrison was discharged on Wednesday, the 22d—I afterwards saw some skins before the Magistrate—they were part of the missing dozen, only they had been skived over—that means taking off the thick part, and reducing them to a proper substance—these are the skins (looking at two parcels)—here is the mark I refer to—it is a spot caused from mould.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. Did you take a certain portion of the twenty dozen skins for your own work? A. Yes—four of us drew the twenty—I saw the others take theirs—I saw Harrison take his, and count his—we took five dozen each—I went with Harrison when he left the shaving shop, and went to get them dipped—if they become spoilt it is from the neglect of the workman—I have known that to occur—I have also known

skins to be reduced too much for book-binding purposes—I speak to these skins from their being skived over, and their spotted state—Harrison left between 6 and 7 on the Monday—he returned on the Wednesday, but master would not let him go to work, and discharged him—Harrison afterwards appeared at the police-court—the prisoner was also there.

RICHARD ELLIS . I live at 36, Park-place, and am in the employment of Messrs. Learmonth and Roberts—I was in the shaving shop on the 16th August—four of us drew five dozen skins each to be dipped—Harrison was one of us—I believe the skins produced to belong to my employers—I believe them to be part of the skins that were dipped on the 16th August.

Cross-examined. Q. Why do you believe so? A. By the spots—all the five dozen and a half were spotted in the same way, by lying there—one parcel of these skins is in a finished state, they are rather thin, not too thin for book-binding.

COURT. Q. Have you any belief about those? A. I firmly believe them to belong to Mr. Learmonth—there are no marks by which I know them.

RICHARD BRAITHWAITE . I am in the employment of Messrs. Learmonth and Roberts, and have been so for twelve years—I see one of my shopmate's marks on this skin—none of these are finished—this is cut—we are instructed to mark our skins as close to the edge as possible—this one has my mark, and this is one of my shopmates—I examined this other lot of skins at the police-court, and identified them as my employers property.

Cross-examined. Q. Are your marks and your shopmates similar? A. No, and we mark in different parts—the mark is made with a knife—these skins have not been in our possession since they were produced at the police-court—they were wet when first produced there—they then had the same marks that they have now.

THOMAS LOCKYER . I am manager to Messrs. Learmonth and Roberts—I saw these twelve skins at the police-court—on the first occasion some of them were wet, they were not in a marketable state—we never sell skins in the state in which they were—the value of the twelve skins is about 54s.—I cannot swear to these, but they have every appearance of our goods.

Cross-examined. Q. Are they skins common in the trade? A. Not Memel calf—I believe one or two houses besides ours deal in them—none of these are in a marketable state—I was at the police-court when Harrison was charged and discharged—I heard him give evidence—I can't say whether what he said was taken down, I expect it was, the clerk was sitting at the desk writing at the time.

MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Do you know that since Harrison was examined at the police-court he has absconded? A. He is not in London, I believe he is at Manchester—I have heard so—he has not appeared again—I never knew skins sold in this state.

GEORGE WILLIAM MILLER . I am a leather-dresser and seller, in Willowwalk, Bermondsey—I have known the prisoner for some years; he carries on the business of a currier in a small way in the Kent-road, about ten minutes or a quarter of an hour's walk from my place—I am in the habit of buying a great many skins—on 18th August, he brought me some calf-skins, these are them (the six more finished)—he said he had thrown half-a-dozen skins out of some he was dressing, that they were too light for his purpose—they were in the crust state, not dry as they are now, but damp; not shaved as they are now, I have had them shaved since, ready for drying—when dyed, they would be in a finished state—the prisoner asked me to buy them, and asked 54s. a dozen—I told him he asked more than the value, but as half-a-dozen

skins did not make much difference, I would take them of him at the rate of 48s., and he gave me a receipt for the money, which I have here—on 22d August, four days afterwards, I saw a newspaper parcel lying on the table of my warehouse—my wife told me something—I did not open it till next morning, I then found it contained these half-dozen skins—they were not dry, but partly shaved; they were not in a marketable state—I never sell or buy skins in such a state—I placed both parcels in the hands of the police.

Cross-examined. Q. The prisoner has been living in the neighbourhood for a long time, has he not? A. I have known him about twenty years, living about the neighbourhood, not all the time—he was in Australia, I think, for about twelve months—I have bought skins of Messrs, Learmonth in a crust state, not in this state—dampness will sometimes grow on skins to a slight degree when packed together—I believe the prisoner is a leather-seller as well as a currier—48s. was the full market value.

ROSINA SARAH MILLER . I am the wife of the last witness; I have known the prisoner for some time—on Wednesday, 22d August, while my husband was out, the prisoner brought a newspaper parcel to our place and said, "Give these to George, and tell him they are 1l. 7s."—I placed it on the table, and mentioned it to my husband.

Cross-examined. Q. Is there a tailor who occupies a shop connected with your premises? A. No; certainly not.

RICHARD PEARCE . I am in Mr. Millers' employment—on the night of 20th August, I heard of the robbery at Messrs. Learmonth's—on the following day, in consequence of directions from my; master, I opened a brown paper parcel in the warehouse, wrapped up in a newspaper—it, was on the shopboard—it contained half-a-dozen skins; they were in what "we call a perishable state—I fetched Mr. Braithwaite to examine them; they were subsequently taken possession of by the police, and I saw them afterwards at the police-court—on Monday, 27th August, I went to the prisoner in Horsemonger-lane gaol—I told him I was very sorry to see him placed in that situation, and that I thought if he acknowledged who the thief was, perhaps (I had no authority for saying so) it might go a great deal in his favour—he then said, it was Bill Harrison; that on the Saturday previous Harrison had been to the gaol, and seen him and said he meant to give himself up, and that he was sorry to see him (Trew) in that situation—I had not previously mentioned Harrison's name to the prisoner, nor at any time—I knew Harrison well enough.

Cross-examined. Q. And you knew that he was Bill Harrison, did you not? A. Yes—I have lived in the neighbourhood of Bermondsey upwards of fifty years, man and boy—I went to the gaol of my own aocord—I had not known the prisoner before, merely as a passing friend—I did not go to see him as a friend exactly, it might be as a passing friend—he was in gaol on this charge.

JOHN MARSH (Policeman, M 184). In consequence of information, I took the prisoner into custody, on 24th August, at his workshop in Cumber land-place, Old Kent-road—I told him I was authorized to take him into custody for having a portion of stolen property, such as skins, in his possession, belonging to Mr. Roberts—he said he did not know it was stolen property—I asked him how he came in possession of it—he said it was left by a man at the tailor's shop while he was out—the tailor's shop is the front shop of the same house—I told him he must accompany me to the station—as we came out I asked the tailor in the prisoner's presence if such a parcel

had been left, and he said, no—the prisoner made no remark upon that—I asked the tailor if there had been such a parcel whether he would have known anything about it, and he said certainly he should—I had the parcel with me at the time—I told the prisoner I had information that he had taken half-a-dozen skins to Mr. Miller's to sell, and he said, yes, he had—at the station the sergeant asked him how he came in possession of the skins, and he said a man had left them when he was out—the sergeant asked if he should know the man—he said he thought he should by the description—I received the twelve skins I have produced to-day from Miller—I have had them in my possession ever since.

Cross-examined. Q. Did the prisoner attend at the police court two or three times? A. He did; he had his hearing, and he had his solicitor—he was in custody—Harrison was charged in the first instance—I fetched him from Newcastle—the prisoner was also in custody then—I never saw him there except in custody.

CHARLES WISE (Police-serjeant, M 12). I was at the station when the prisoner was brought there in custody—previous to entering the charge I told him I was going to ask him a few questions, but he had no occasion to answer unless he thought proper; if he did I should have to make use of what he said—I then asked how he came in possession of the skins—he said they were left at his house on Tuesday last, by a man, in his absence—I asked him if he had any idea who the man was—he said he thought he should be able to ascertain who he was—that was all that took place.

The prisoner received a good character. NOT GUILTY .

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-911
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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911. JOHN THOMAS (55) , Unlawfully haying in his possession 4 counterfeit shillings, with intent to utter them.

MR. CLERK conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN VINCENT . I am manager of the Greyhound Tavern, Bermondsey—on the afternoon of 14th September, two women came there and had a pint of sixpenny ale, which was 3d.—they tried to pass a bad shilling—I threw it on the counter and said, "Give me a better one than this; this won't do for me"—Breech, who was there, bent it, and then put a good shilling on it and bent it straight again, and then gave it back to the woman.

Prisoner. Q. Where did he get the good shilling from that he straightened it with? A. The young woman threw it down—he put the bad one in his mouth to bite it, and I said, "Don't bite it"—he only spends about 1 1/2 d. a day in drink—I have taken bad money before, or else I should not have looked so sharp after it.

BENJAMIN BREECH . I live at 8, Harding-terrace, Camberwell New-road, and am a journeyman butcher—on the afternoon of 14th September, I was at the Greyhound—two women came in—I saw one of them give a counterfeit shilling to the last witness—he bent it and said, "Cannot you give me a better one than this? this won't do for me"—he put it on the counter—I took it up, straightened it with a good one that the woman then put down, and then marked it with my teeth—the woman who had given it took it away—the two women went away together—I followed them—I had to go about 150 yards through a passage, and I saw the prisoner and the two women in company—I watched them, and as soon as the women caught sight of me they all turned their backs to me and huddled up together in a lump—I could only see what was done, by the working of their arms behind them—the women then left the prisoner and passed me—the prisoner went the other

way—I followed him about 70 or 80 yards; I was about 10 yards from him—he stooped down, and I ran after him and saw him pull out his hand from some fence—that was the same side of the road that we were walking—there was only a piece of high grass on the other side of the fence where he put his hand—as soon as he pulled his hand out I put my hand in and found there a paper package, which I opened—it contained four counterfeit shillings—one of them was the one which I had marked at the Greyhound, and which one of the women took away—I am sure of it—I then followed the man—as soon as he saw that I was following him, he turned and came back again towards me and passed me—I turned again and walked behind him—I said, "It is no use, old fellow; I shall stick to you"—he made use of a bad expression, and said that if I followed him any more he would knock my head in—I said, "Well, if you do, I suppose I shall be there"—he went into a brick-field and hid himself under a lot of leaves—I sent for a constable, one came up, and I gave the prisoner into his custody—I gave the constable the four shillings which I had found in the paper.

Prisoner. Q. You took the shilling off the counter? A. Yes, and straightened it—I did not see the women in or near the lane where you packed up the parcel—I did not see them give you anything—I only saw your elbows moving.

JOHN BERRY (Policeman, P 142). I took the prisoner in a brick-field hidden under some trees, and covered up with a lot of rubbish—he was quite sober—I found on him sixpence in silver and 4 1/2 d. in copper, all good, and this bag containing six different compartments—the last witness gave me a parcel at the station, containing four bad shillings.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These four shillings are all bad, and two of them are from one mould—one of these two is the one that has been marked with the teeth, bent and straightened.

Prisoner's Defence. I have been working hard for my living this thirtyfive years—I received a blow in my stomach from felling against a piece of granite, and that bag is an old handkerchief which I used for a poultice.


22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-912
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

912. JAMES LEE (70) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-913
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

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913. MARGARET RAGAN (16), and HUGH HARTY (18) , Robbery, on Thomas Summers, and stealing 1 watch, 1 chain, 1 breast-pin, 1 purse, and 30s. in money, his property.

MR. MCDONNELL conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS SUMMERS . I live at Norwood—On the night of 15th September, between 12 and 1 o'clock, I was coming along High-street, in the Borough—I had a breast-pin in my neckerchief, and a watch and chain in my waistcoat pocket—Ragan came up to me and took hold of me—I spushed her away—she came again and took hold of me rudely—I pushed her away—she came a third time and I pushed her away, and in pushing her away she got the pin out of my stock, and started to run away—I tried to run after her and I was knocked down in a moment—I did not see the man—I know it was a man—I got up—I did not miss my watch and chain at the moment—I did in about a quarter of an hour, and I missed about 30s. in silver—the policeman came up immediately I was knocked down, and he caught the man who knocked me down.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. You live at Norwood? A. Yes; I

was in High-street, in the Borough, between 12 and 1 o'clock—I went to the railway-station—I was too late for the last train—I had my purse and money in my hand at the railway-station—when I found I was too late I put my purse in my pocket, and came along High-street—I took out my watch and looked at it, and put it into my pocket, and never attempted to take it out again—I did not see my purse again before I missed it—after Ragan was taken I went to the station—I missed my money when I got to the police-station—this was in High-street, close by St. George's Church—I had been taking a little refreshment—I was not any way intoxicated—I was not quite sober.

MR. MCDONNELL. Q. Were you sober enough to know what you were about, and to know that you had this purse in your pocket and your watch and chain with you? A. Yes.

JOSHUA THOMAS (Policeman M 259). I was on duty in High-street, on 15th September, between 12 and 1 o'clock in the morning—I heard a cry of stop thief, right opposite St George's Church—I saw the last witness struggling with the female—I did not take any notice—I saw the female make away—he went to make after the female and the prisoner Harty struck him a blow which knocked him down—I don't know who the female was, but I ran across the road and took Harty six or eight yards from where the prosecutor was—he was running away—I took him and went to the prosecutor—I found the nature of the case and I sprang my rattle, and I asked the prosecutor the way the female had gone—he followed in that direction, and Ragan was stopped by another constable—she went to the station, and the prosecutor charged them with stealing his watch and chain, and pin, and a purse containing about 30s. in money.

Cross-examined. Q. When you first saw this, where were you? A. On the opposite side of the way in High-street, directly opposite St. George's Church—the street is very narrow there—at the time the female broke away from the prosecutor, Harty was within one yard—I saw him standing there before the struggling took place, but who he was I could not say—I did not see any other person, man or woman, except the three persons that I speak of—I did not see any row at the end of Church-street—I was not in a position to see Church-street—Church-street is by the side of the church, and White-street is at the end of Church-street—I saw White-street after I had got Harty in custody—when the woman got away, the prosecutor cried stop thief, he cried it before he was knocked down, and afterwards, when he was knocked down, Harty ra✗ in an opposite direction to the female—I ran in a cross direction, the way that he ran, and overtook him about six yards from where the prosecutor was knocked down, directly opposite the fountain—I was examined before the magistrate—I answered all that I was asked—I made all the statements I have to-day, as to the apprehending of the prisoner—before I was a policeman I was a tobacco-pipe maker, in the employ of Mr. Robert Smith—I was apprenticed to him—I continued with him two years and a half—I left him because he was reduced in circumstances—I did not leave him without giving him notice—he did not treat me with a sight of the interior of a police court—he did not in 1844, while I was apprentice, charge me before a police magistrate—I was not convicted and sentenced to a month's imprisonment—I will pledge myself that I was not charged by Robert Smith and had one month; nothing like it—I never was charged before a magistrate—my master did not charge me in private—it was not in consequence of that that I left—he was reduced in circumstances, that was what I left for—I went into the service

of Mr. Buston, a tobacco-pipe maker—I was a journeyman after had I served my seven years—there was a man of the name of Gosling—Mr. Buston did not charge me with stealing some pigeons belonging to himself or to Gosling—I did not leave in a moment—it is utterly untrue—I positively deny anything of the sort which reflects on my character before I was a policeman—I did not search Harty on the spot—I searched him when I got to the station—I did not find anything—I searched the neighbourhood and the churchyard—I did not find anything.

MR. MCDONNELL. Q. Is there the slightest ground for saying that you have been in custody, or charged with anything improper. A. No—that street is narrower in some parts than others—the part where I saw the prosecutor and the prisoner is the narrowest part.

ROBERT BRICKLAYER (Policeman, M 167). I was on duty in Kent-street, on 15th September, between 12 and 1 o'clock in the morning—I heard a rattle spring, and saw the prisoner Ragan run down Church-street, close to St. George's Church—I caught her in my arms and asked her what was the matter—she said a man was running after her to beat her—I saw the prosecutor coming, and I kept her till he came up—I saw, Harty in custody—the prosecutor said she had robbed him of his pin, and she was given into my custody—I did not see her near anyone else—where I took her is seventy or eighty yards from where this happened—I only saw Ragan when she turned the corner of Church-street.

COURT to THOMAS SUMMERS. Q. When Ragan came to you three times, did she come close to you. A. Yes—she put her arms round me—she did that three times.

RAGAN— GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

HARTY— GUILTY .— Confined Fifteen Months.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-913a
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

913a. JOHN GREEN (24), and EDWARD BICKNELL (30) , Stealing, on 18th October, 1 truss of hay, and, on 10th October, 3 trusses of hay, the property of John Jenkinson, the master of Bieknell Second Count, receiving the same.

MR. ROWDEN conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN JENKINSON . I am a hay and straw dealer, and live in Camberwell New-road—I have another shop at Battersea—I have a stack of hay at Stratford—Bicknell was in my service—on 10th October I sent him to Stratford with orders to take a load of hay from Stratford to Battersea—he did not return till late at night—in consequence of something I went the next day to Battersea—I saw some hay there—the man told me he had received thirty-six trusses, and I counted them—it was my hay, and had come from my rick at Stratford—I met a constable and took Bicknell into custody and brought him to my shop—I then went to Stratford and saw my hay-binder, and made some inquiries of him.

WILLIAM SPILLER . I am hay-binder to Mr. Jenkinson—on 10th October I went to his place at Stratford—Bicknell came there about five o'clock for, a load of hay (a load is thirty-six trusses)—I asked him how many trusses he had been loading, he said thirty-six—I counted them and there were thirtyseven—1 was binding there—Bicknell did not load the cart himself, Green loaded it for Bicknell, and when it was loaded I counted and found thirtyseven trusses—I counted it twice over—I am sure there were thirty-seven on the van—I said to Bicknell, "There are thirty-seven trusses, where are you going to take them?"—he said, "Home, to the shop"—I said,"Tell the governor how many you have got"—I saw the van drive off and there were thirty-seven trusses on it.

SAMUEL BENNETT . I live in Addington-square—on 10th October I went for a ride with Bicknell to Stratford, in his van—we stayed there all day—I heard Spiller tell Bicknell that he had thirty-seven trusses of hay—when we left we went to Battersea, but stopped at several places on the road—on the way we took up Green—we stopped in Whitechapel, and then Bicknell and Green, and I were all in the van together—Green got off the van in Whitechapel, and Bicknell took one of the trusses off the van and gave it to Green, who took it down a turning—he did not bring it back—I saw that he had in his hand two pieces of paper—we all went to a public-house, and while there Green gave Bicknell some money—we then drove on to Battersea and delivered the hay, and they drove back and left me at Kenningtoncross

DAVID HALSEY (Policeman, P 267). On the evening of 10th October I was in Camberwell New-road—I met the prosecutor, and from information he gave me I went after Bicknell and took him in custody—on the way to the police-court he said he picked up Green in Whitechapel and took him to Stratford—Green was not a prisoner then—when I took Bicknell I told him the charge, and on the morning of the 12th he said, "I was induced to do it by Green; on the way back, in Whitechapel, I got on the van and gave him a truss of hay, and he took it down a turning."

RICHARD KIMBER (Policeman, P 50). On the evening of 13th October I went to Whitechapel haymarket and took Green—I told him the charge—he said, "I was along with Bicknell on the 10th, at Stratford, and he took a load of hay, and I went with him to Battersea"—I said, "Did you stop anywhere on the road between Stratford and Battersea?"—he said, "No, I did not"—I said, "Where did you go from Battersea?"—he said he came back with him, and brought some more hay. GUILTY .

The Prisoners were further charged with having been before convicted.

STEPHEN STANDAGE (Police-sergeant, V 39). I produce a certificate—(Read: "Surrey Sessions, May, 1854; Edward Bicknell was convicted of Larceny, having been before convicted Four Years' Penal Servitude).—I was present—Bicknell is the man.

JOHN WILLIAM CLARK . I am one of the warders of Chelmsford gaol—I produce a paper (Read: At the Quarter Sessions at Chelmsford, on 27th June, 1854, John Green was convicted of stealing lead from the church of that parish; having been before convicted—Four Years' Penal Servitude.")—I was present—Green is the same man.

GREEN— GUILTY .— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

BICKNELL— GUILTY .— Eight Years' Penal Servitude.

Before Mr. Justice Hill.

22nd October 1860
Reference Numbert18601022-914
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

914. WILLIAM ALLES (31), Was indicted for a rape on Ann Cheeseman, the younger.

MR. METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.

MR. GENT conducted the Defence.

GUILTY .— Eight Years' Penal Servitude.


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