Old Bailey Proceedings.
7th May 1860
Reference Number: t18600507

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Old Bailey Proceedings front matter.
7th May 1860
Reference Numberf18600507

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Sessions Paper.







Short-hand Writers to the Court










Lam publishers to the Queen's Most Excellent Majesty.




On the Queen's Commission of the Peace,



The City of London,





Held on Monday, May 7th, 1860, and following days.

BEFORE the Right Honourable JOHN CARTER , F.R.A.S. Lord Mayor of the City of London; Sir William Fry Channell, one of the Barons of Her Majesty's Court of Exchequer; Sir Henry Singer Keating, one of the Justices of Her Majesty's Court of Common Pleas; William Taylor Copeland, Esq. M.P.; Sir Francis Graham Moon, Bart; and Sir Robert Walter Carden, Knt.; Aldermen of the said City; Russell Gurney, Esq., Q.C., Recorder of the said City; William Cubitt, Esq. M.P.; Sir Henry Mug-bridge, Knt.; Warren Stormes Hale, Esq.; Edward Condor, Esq.; and James Abbiss, Esq.; Aldermen of the said City Thomas Chambers, Esq. Common Serjeant of the said City; and Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq. Judge of the Sheriff's Court of the said City; Her Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer and General Gaol Delivery of Newgate, holden for the said City, and Judges of the Central Criminal Court.








First Jury.

George Samuel Ridley

George Purkiss

James Isaac Sands

John Parker

John Miller

Henry William Neville

Henry Reed

John Thomas Place

John Sisely

Thomas Sorrell

James Mannings

John Chiffien

Second Jury.

James Marshall

Esan Rowley

Roger Roberts

John Walker Cole

Francis Thompson

Robert William Reeves

James Reaks

Frisby Miller

Charles Reddish

Charles Reeve

Alexander Macgilinwray

George Murdock

Third Jury

George Plummer

Joseph Cross

George John Phelps

Henry Pratt

John Ray

John William Stratton

William Mackintosh

James Murray

Teesdale Cockell'

Jacob Magnus

Charles Pearson

Thomas Rabett

Fourth Jury.

James Northcroft

James Simpson

Richard Thomas Rice

William Page

Henry Alabaster

Charles Boss

John Morris

George Simpson

Thomas Willomet Hunt

James Stephens

William Martin

John Mullett

Fifth Jury.

William Maidment

James Luther

George Richards

Sidney Henry Harris

Joseph Morris

Archibald Pringle

George May

William Manley

James Newton

Edward Morgan

Michael Pannell

William Smith

Sixth Jury.

Henry Partridge

Lucius Nelson

Willim Moyer

James Mackintosh

James Rawkins

Stephen Peppitt

Samuel Reeve

Robert Mobbs

William Scantlebury

William Henry Stratton

Samuel Read

James Powell

Seventh Jury.

Thomas Stokes

Richard Benjamin Cox

John James Ravenshaw

James Daniel Smith

George Morris Robertahaw

James Read

Edward Spencer

William Snelling

David Matthews

Henry Stamford

John Perry

James Round

Eighth Jury.

Thomas Stokes

Richard Benjamin Cox

George Morris Robertshaw

James Read

Robert Manebridge

Henry Stamford

James Reid

John Perry

Henry Partridge

James Mackintosh

Stephen Peppitt

Samuel Reeve

The following Prisoners, upon whom the Judgment of the Court was respited at the time of Trial, have since been sentenced as under:

Vol. lii. Page Sentence.

1 Honey, Charles... 58... Confined Fifteen Months.

2 Dennis, David... 288... Confined Twelve Months.

3 Blunden, John... 345... Confined One Day.

4 Murphy, Thomas... 388...Eight Years' Penal Servitude

5 Khan, Mahomet Ali... 500... One Month of Correction.

6 Jones, Mary... 516... Five Months at Holloway.

7 Saxby, William... 538... Four Months House of Correction.

8 Timmins, Job... 600... Three Months House of Correction.

9 Williamson, Thomas... 607... Confined Six Months.

10 Bray, Jessie... 699... Confined Eleven Weeks.

11 Hoolahan, Charlotte... 700... Confined Eleven Weeks.

12 Davis, William... 736...Four Years' Penal Servitude.



A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two start (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters—the figure after the name in the indictment denote the prisoners age.


OLD COURT. Monday and Tuesday, May 7th and 8th, and NEW COURT. Wednesday and Thursday, May 9th and 10th, 1860.


Before Mr. Recorder, and the First Jury.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-397
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

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397. ELIZA DE WELZENSTEIN, MADELINE JOURDAN, EDWARD DE WELZENSTEIN , and HERMAN FREICKE were indicted for a conspiracy. MR. HUDDLESTON, Q.C. and MESSRS. SLNIGH and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

JOSEPH STOHWASSER . I am a tailor, of Conduit-street, and am Chairman of the German Benevolent Society, and have for some time past assisted my countrymen in distress in this country—In June 1857, I received a communication from the embassy; and in consequence of what Count Kotheck told me I went to Charlotte-street, Fitzroy-square, first floor, and found Madame De Welzenstein—I told her I had been sent to enquire into her circumstances, and asked her how she came to apply for assistance—she said that her husband, who was an officer in the Austrian Army, was going to America; that he arrived in London in May, and had pawned every article he had; in order to enable him to go to America in search of an uncle who was a rich man over there, and that she had supported herself and her child by needle-work—there was a child in the room about five years old—I enquired how it was that she was in such distress—she said that the season was over, and she had had no work for some time; and had been without food for some days—I enquired, as she lived in such comfortable lodgings, whether the furniture was her's—she said that the apartments were hired by a friend of her husband's, Mr. Sterafeldt, whose wife was in very delicate health, and lived out of town; and as he had no use for the rooms and could not give them up, having taken them by the year

he allowed her to make use of them during the day; and she had a room on the third floor, for which she paid 6s.—she said that her friend was a brother officer serving in the same regiment with her husband—I gave her half-a-crown and told her I would see what I could do for her—I called again next day and left her 10s.—she called at my shop on 7th July and I gave her a letter of recommendation to the German Benevolent Society; they allowed her a sovereign, which I took to her on the following day; she thanked me and I thought I had done with her, but about the middle of August she called again with the child; she cried, and was in great distress—I enquired how it was she waa not better off; she said that all the money I had given her went for the purpose of paying the interest on pawn tickets for goods of some value which she had pawned—I told her it was no charity for her to receive money to pay the interest on pawn tickets—she said that she did not know what to do with them—I suggested that it would be better to sell the tickets than be paying twenty per cent. interest to a pawnbroker; it being quite impossible under her present circumstances to redeem them—she said that nobody would buy them, and she could only retain them as long as the goods would be redeemable—I said that I would look over the tickets if she brought them, and see whether the articles were of any use or value to me; and she brought about twenty-three tickets to me on the same day; consisting of silks, shirts, and other trifling articles—I questioned her whether she had come fairly by them; she said that she had brought them from Germany or Vienna where her husband had been in quarters, and if I should like to have them, she would give them to me altogether for 5l. so as to get money immediately, and do some business—I thought the goods were worth more than the money for which they were pledged, and the 5l.; and I arranged that they should be taken out of pawn—I gave my foreman 22l. and he did so—he then sorted them; and one third which I considered of no use to me I returned to her—these were female's clothes and coats; the other two thirds were sorted out; and having ascertained the value of the silks, they were left at my shop, and my people had instructions to ask my friends to buy, but they all said that the price was too high; they consequently remained at my shop till October, and during that period she had repeatedly received money; it amounted to 35l. including the 22l.—it was 22l. and 13l.; that was beyond the full value; they had been in pawn and were knocked about—during that period I saw her once or twice only, because I was out of town—after my return I received a communication which caused me to go to Charlotte-street—I made a list of the money which she had drawn, and gave her a few shillings to go on with—she came to me on 18th October, 1857, in a state of illness—the child was not with her—(I believe she had brought the child on two other-occasions)—she said that she had been very ill in consequence of having a child, and had had Dr. Stancoff, who had advised her to go to the German Hospital, which she decidedly refused—I could not get rid of her, and to pacify her I said that I would send my doctor, Mr. Louth of Brook-street, to see her, and he did—during her illness I frequently called to see how she was getting on—up to the period of her illness I had never seen Edward De Welzenstein, or Jourdan; but one evening when I called, Madame Jourdan was there, or rather Madame Poninska she called herself—I first saw her about three days after 18th October—Madame De Welzenstein said during her illness, that her friend Sternfeldt's wife would not allow her to occupy the bed, as she might have a disease which might be dangerous; and she was to occupy a sofa in the front room—she was ill about thirteen

or fourteen days; Poninska was not present on the occasions when I spoke I about Sternfeldt—I saw her about three days after the doctor first called; and when she heard my name she said that she was most happy in haying met me on such a good occasion, and would I come and see her—I did not see her there again till a fortnight after, on a Sunday, but she said scareely anything—they were at tea—I had occasion to go there about 6 o'clock—De Welzenstein had some work at Eaton-piace—Madame Poninsks wished me to get some work for her among my Mends as she had known her some time, that she was a most excellent woman whose husband had gone away, and all that story over again—I had no reason to disbelieve her—she said that Sternfeldt was merely a friend who was very kind to her, and assisted her as much as he could, but believed his means were not very large, and he could not entirely support Madame De Welzenstein out of the means that he had, having a wife who was ill herself—when De Welzeustein got better I told her that I should be glad if she would send her friend to me, as I could arrange with a man about her future position much better than I could with her, and if he would come to me I would talk the matter over with him; and he did call at the latter end of October at my place of business, and said, "I have been asked by Madame De Welzenstein to call on you; my name is Sternfeldt, you wish to see me"—I said, "I have done a good deal, and she is not in a better condition that when I first knew her"—I related the case of the sale of the tickets, and asked him if he had seen the note I had made of the tickets, and if he was satisfied, as the friend of Madame De Welzenstein—he said, "Yes; you have paid much more thai the value of it"—I said, "I do not mind, provided I have done some good to her;" and referred to that I had done—he said, "Unfortunately what you have done she has very little benefit out of, because she was so deeply in debt to a variety-of people, who came as soon as they found she had some money"—he stated that he had known her and her husband in the Austrian service, that De Welzenstein was a most honourable man, and he could only speak in the best terms of Madame De Welzenstein, and had supported her in her husband's absence, who had gone to America in search of an uncle—he gave me the address, but it was simply "New York"—I did not keep the paper, I agreed to communicate with America—he said that he was in the same Austrian regiment with the husband, who was superior to him, and that he regretted much that they had not had any information from the husband since he had gone, and could not account for his not writing to his wife, as he was such an excellent honourable man, and it was quite uncertain when he would be back—at the interview with Madame De Welzenstein, I said that I must Bpeak to Madame Poninska, as a better woman of business, as to how to put her into something; and I Baw her, I suppose, the next day at her place in Mount-street—she asked me to come and see her and to speak about the position of this woman—she repeated that she was in a position to recommend Madame De Welzenstein to customers when she was in a respectable lodging to receive them, and of course she wanted some ineanb—on a Sunday evening in October, about 4 o'clock, I called at Charlotte-street, and found the four prisoners all together, and a person named Watford—I did not stay more than twenty minutes, because the people were all unknown to me, except seeing Madame Paninska about twice, and Sternfeldt having called on me once a day or two before, at my house, between 18th and 26th October—when I left, Madame De Welzenstein followed me down stairs; she complained that she was still very ill, and that it was very wrong for Sternfeldt to have brought company to

the house on a Sunday without bringing a servaut to wait on them—subsequently to that visit, a person named Corn came to me, and in consequence of that I went a day or two afterwards to 5, Charlotte-street—I knocked at the door and asked the servant whether Madame De Welzenstein was within, she said, "Yes"—I was in a cab, and she came down at my request—I told her that Corn had stated to me that she and the person named Sternfeldt were man and wife, that her name was Statina, and that the child which she exhibited as her own was one she had borrowed—she asked me where I had the information from; and when I told her the name, Corn, she said, "How could you believe such a scoundrel as that man is?" and denied it entirely—I then left, after asking if Freicke who lived in the house was at home, and if she would send him to me at the club—the club and the society meet in one house—Freicke called, and I told him that Mr. and Mrs. Corn had called at my house and stated that Madame De Welzenstein and Sternfeldt were man and wife, and that the child was a borrowed one, and I wanted him to tell me the truth how the matter stood—I said, "You must be aware of the facts, and I want to know from you how it is"—he said that Corn was a liar and a swindler, and in fact everything that was bad, and he very much regretted that his sister, Mrs. Corn, should be a party to such a false transaction; that it was all a fabrication of Corn's, and advised me to see Corn again and get proof of the fact—I called on Madame De Welzenstein the same day, and said, "I am afraid the case in Charlotte-street is not quite so clear as you have represented to me"—after relating the circumstances, she asked who had given the information—I said, "Corn;" she burst out, and asked how I could be such a dupe as to be imposed upon by such a person as him, that I ought to have known better and not have believed it—she then told me she would bring me proof that it was all a fabrication—Madame Poninska afterwards called at my place twice; the second time she found me at home, and asked me to come with her to Charlotte-street to see the truth that the child was not a borrowed one—I got into a cab with her and drove to 5, Charlotte-street—we were asked up stairs and shown into the first room—two females were in the back room, Madame Bordfeldt and Madame De Welzenstein, but nobody else—after some general conversation, one of the women went out and brought up the child which I had seen with Madame De Welzenstein before—Madame Bordfeldt spoke to the child and coaxed her, stroked her face, and said, "Go and bring your mamma"—she desired me to sit down on a chair and listen—the child went straight away and brought Madame De Welzenstein—she said,"Is this your mamma?" the child said, "Yes"—she then said, "Are you satisfied, Sir?"—I said, "Not quite"—I said to the child, "Who is that other lady?"—she said, "That is aunt De Bordfeldt;" "Now," said she, "Are you satisfied?" and if you are not, you must be an unbelieving Jew"—the farce was then over, and I thought it was all right—during the next week or fortnight Madame Poninska called on me, and also sent letters; she invariably reverted to the circumstances of Madame De Welzenstein, and the trick that Corn played, and how unfortunate she was—of course I regretted it, and she asked me if I would be good enough to go and see Madame De Welzenstein, as she was in a most dreadful state of mind under the circumstances, and that I should be perfectly satisfied by her future conduct that she was a respectable woman—I went about 8 in the evening and found Madame De Welzenstein by herself—after being there a few minutes she had said nothing, and I had very little to say—I said that I called at the request of Madame Poninska, and that I understood she kit very much hurt

at my believing the imposition of Corn; that I was informed so and was I obliged to enquire, and she ought not to blame me in it, it was Mr. Corn—she said, "I am most happy to find that I have met you, you have been like a father to me, you are my saviour"—I went about kissing my hands—just as I this was taking place, the door opened and I saw a head, but could not I recognize the person as I had not my spectacles on—she jumped up, and I said, "What is that?"—she said, "It is Sternfeldt"—I said, "Why does not he come in"—I heard an extraordinary screech and it rather startled me—she ran towards the door, and they went into the back room—the door between the two rooms was not open—I heard a very loud conversation and stood three or four minutes; nobody came—I thought it was not a very pleasant position, and thought of Corn and that perhaps it might have been a trap—I went away, and in about an hour and a half, Madame De Welzenstein and the woman called at the club—I went and asked what, they wanted—she said that her friend Sternfeldt had made such an extraordinary assertion, and would I be good enough to go home with her and explain to him that what she did was nothing wrong at all—I refused to go, because I thought the woman had insulted me, and did not go; I promised to write a letter and state what had occurred, as she said that it would be of great comsequence to her when her husband came home from America—I wrote the letter next day and left it myself at 5, Charlotte-street—from that time I never heard anything more about the occurrence at the house on that night, until the action was brought—soon after the letter. I have spoken of, I called on Madame Poninska at her place in Mount-street—I had a conversation there with her and with a person who was there who represented himself as Sternfeldt—that must have been a few days after; a couple of days—what took place was respecting taking the house—I believe Madame Poninska introduced the matter; she stated it to be the best, and that Sternfeldt had ample means to furnish the house, and it only depended on Madame De Welzenstein having some money to furnish the ground floor, which she was to occupy for the purpose of carrying on the business of a milliner—Sternfeldt seemed to take it as a matter of course; he had sufficient at the time, he was certain of it—he said he should have means coming from Vienna—that applied to the means of furnishing the place; and Madame Poninsks proposed that a subscription should be made, and a raffle—that matter I dare say occupied three or four days, consulting about the means—Madame Poninska told me that Sternfeldt had no money at present, but that his wife was in possession of jewellery which she would partly pawn; and as a proof that sfie had them, she pulled out a pawn ticket from her pocket which dropped on the ground, she picked it up, and it was for a diamond bracelet that she had pawned the same day for 50l.—Madame Poninska told me that Sternfeldt had means, and the wife was, she believed, some person of very great consequence in j Germany, and that they married privately, that he was not Sternfeldt, that he; was a nobleman of large property—a fortnight I think elapsed before they could get a house, because they could not get any reference, and Madame Poninska proposed that she would be part towards paying the 201. that was required for furnishing the ground floor for Madame de Welzenstein, if I could give reference for the house, which after some deal of persuasion on the part of Madame Poninska, I consented, more particularly as I knew the landlord—Sternfeldt once asked me to accompany him down to the place where likely houses might be to let, and I did so—when we were at Pimlico, and he had consented to take the house, I said I understood his

name was not Sternfeldt, and I expected he should tell me who he was, and take the house in his real name, as I did not wish to have any more fiction about it—at the time I had this conversation with him they had found a house in Eccleston-terrace—he said that he had left Austria for having been implicated in political matters, and he was obliged to go away; in fact, he had been in arrest and made his escape with a forged passport; consequently he was obliged to retain that name; but his name was not that, his name was Edgar Von Schwannenfelt; we usually oall them Baron, it defines the same position as an English baron—he afterwards came to me, and said he had taken the house, and he removed there immediately, and I paid for the carting of the furniture—I gave to Madame Welzenstein 20l.; that was to furnish the ground floor for her to carry on the business—I afterwards received a note from him, asking if I would not come to see him at his new lodging—I went there, and I necessarily made inquiry about the progress of the furniture, where it had gone to—the place was not at all furnished, no progress was made—I asked him the reason, and he said his means from Vienna had not arrived, and Madame Poninska, who had promised to assist him had failed, and consequently he could not go on at all, and he asked me if I would not lend him some money—I lent him 30l. on that occasion, and took this I O U from him—I wrote the body of the I O U and he signed it—about a week subsequently he made an application to me for further assistance, and I then lent him 45l. more—for that he signed this I O U—I wrote it myself in his presence, and in the presence of Madame Welzenstein—he showed me a large number of letters, which I did not read, several of them showing that the bearer was So-and-so, with large seals in front—several letters were addressed to my house—some progress was subsequently made in furnishing the house—I occasionally called there—in April the next year I called there one evening—they were at variance about some matters, and some expressions were used by Madame Welzenstein which caused me subsequently to say something to her—the next time I called she was by herself, and I told her that from what I had noticed and from various circumstances I had seen, it was perfectly evident to me that he and she must be man and wife, and unless she told me there and then I certainly would not relieve her in any other way; in fact I would not in any way, and I would get my money back in the best way I could—she said that they were man and wife—I asked her how she came to tell me such a number of different stories about her career—she said as she had given a full history of her life to the Austrian embassy, which history she knew that Count Kotheck had given me to read, and Count Apponyi had promised on the strength of that history to intercede with her uncle, who was an Austrian field-marshal—that she was obliged to tell me the story that Sternfeldt was not her husband—it was also stated in the letter to Count Apponyi that she had a child—on that occasion Sterufeldt was not at home—she said if I considered their I distressed state, the letters written to the embassy, and the various circumstances, I would surely forgive her the imposition she had practised upon me, and she begged me not to tell her husband that she had revealed the facts to me—I thought it might be likely, and I wrote a letter and asked him to confess that he was her husband—I called at their place—he made a large number of apologies—he said their circumstances were such, and having once written to the ambassador, they could not possibly deviate from it, and they were obliged to carry it through, but that I should very shortly be convinced of their respectability, and also that any money I had advanced should be shortly paid—I then said, that knowing they were man and wife, it was

impossible for me to support them any further, and they must do their beat, they could not let lodgings—this letter of 13th May, 1858, is Welzenstein's writing; it came to me by post—(This letter being ready implored the witness to aid him in Meeting a bill which was coming due on the 15th instant)—before this time he had handed or sent to me that which he called a history of his life—this produced is it—in consequence of this letter I advanced the sum of 20l. to Welzenstein—I think it was about three or four days afterwards, at my own house, or rather in front of the bank—a female called at my house on 13th May for an answer to the letter—thia letter is also Welzenstein's writing—(This was dated 27th May, 1858, and was put in and read)—I did not reply to that letter—they called repeatedly at my house, Madame Welzenstein particularly—in June, Welzenstein sent to me about the rent—I went down and he told me that the rent had been already due for the previous quarter, and there were various debts about the place, and they were not able to let the house for some cause or another which he did not know—they wanted to let the upper part of the house, and they had not let it; in fact, they had taken no money—there was a person there for a week, and they had not paid—in consequence of what they told me about their difficulties I advised them to move away from the house, for of course there was the difficulty of paying the rent—I then suggested to him that he could not move the furniture without having paid the rent and the tradespeople in the neighbourhood, and I suggested they should be sold by auction and the proceeds go to pay his debts, and with the remainder take some smaller lodging—he told me he owed from 40l. to 45l.—he subsequently handed me this paper (produced) as an inventory of the furniture, and the value of it—it is in his own handwriting—this states the value to be 73l. odd—he gave me a list of debts that he owed, which came to about 45l., and I gave him altogether 55l. in order to pay all his debts—the furniture was to be sold at Oxenham's—the mosey was to be given to me and I was to give him any surplus that remained—the furniture was sold there—I received 52l. odd as the produce of the sale—there was 6l. for expenses—shortly after, in September, in consequence of something I heard about the way in which the money had been disposed of, I told him that he had misinformed me as to having paid all his debts—he had previously told me that he had positively paid every shilling he owed, and he showed me some receipts—I told him that the butcher had called, whom he had not paid, consequently he had deceived me—he said the deception must have bean, practised by his wife, he was not aware of it; he had givan her the money—when they left Eccleston-terrace, they moved to lodgings in Seymour-street, and then into Manchester-street—the reason of selling the furniture was for the purpose of goiug to America, and the surplus money was to furnish the passage money, which was minus my debt of 3l.—Welzenstein then complained that he was worse off than he had been before—I stated "If you, choose to go to America, as I have relieved you so far, if you take your wife with you, I will give you 20l. for the purpose of taking you off;" which 20l. I gave him—this letter of 20th September is his writing—I received it—(Read)—there is an allusion in that letter to a mutual agreement to hold our conversation at my house—I suppose that refers to the agreement of giving him 20l.—when I told him about his wife having deceived me about having paid all his debts, I reproached him very strougly on the subject, and I told him that as he was leaving his wife here, I should not at all consent to it—I objected to go to him, of course he was to come to me—this letter

of 28th September is his writing, and also this letter of 1st October, 1858—(These letters were put in and read)—I cannot positively say whether or not in consequence of receiving that letter I let him have a further amount of money—there are some articles alluded to in that letter; they were a gold brooch and a watch which formed part of the matter taken out of pawn, and they were perfectly unsaleable; I had them in my drawer and I thought I might as well give them back, and she might get a little money by them—I do not think they were worth 2l., both of them together—I did not see Welzenstein again until after he called at my house in January 1859—before that, when I had gone to Eccleston-terrace I saw the prisoner Freicke there, not always—I could not say whether I saw him frequently—he opened the door, but he never was in the room—he always used to retire—I believe I only saw Jourdan once in Eccleston-terrace—I believe I saw Madame Welzenstein twice after the receipt of the last letter, and after Welzenstein's disappearance—about a week after he had left, Freicke called and said that she was left without a peuny; if I would lend her a trifle—I then put a sovereign in a paper and left it at her door; I knocked, but did not go in—I believe Freicke called once more, perhaps four or five days or a week afterwards—I called on Madame Welzenstein one evening in Manchester-street, about 25th or 26th October—she then told me that she could not well remain in the house in consequence of the high rent of 12s. a week; and that she had again been obliged to pawn the little trifles that had been taken out, and she showed me some pawn tickets for various articles—I do not know exactly what money I gave her then to redeem them—she told me that some person had offered to buy them of her—on the 30th October Freicke and a person named Kerschoffsky, a cook's shop keeper, called—Kerschoffsky stated that an execution had been put in the house, and unless the money, 45l., was paid there and then, the man would sell off directly—they wanted me to come directly—I sent them to my solicitor close by to arrange for them—they came back and said the solicitor saw no other way to get out of it except to pay—they went away, and Madame Welzenstein came—she would not go away without I went home with her—I went; and when I got to Manchester-street, I found Kerschoffsky and Freicke there, and the broker and Mr. Nash, who had put in the execution—after various arrangements I declined to have anything to do with the matter—Kerschoffsky offered to pay half if I would pay the other half; but he alleged that he had no money there and then, but it should be paid before the end of March—Nash subsequently took 31l. from me in full discharge, and left the goods—about January, 1859, I saw Welzenatein again, he called at my house—he said that he had had misfortunes in America, and had come back and did not know what to do—after numerous calls and letters I gave him assistance—I received this letter from him on 15th February, 1859 (Read)—I had at that time received certain anonymous letters—I told him I had received I them, and from a former conversation they were attributed to a certain party, Madame Jourdan, who is referred to in that letter as Satan—he I agreed to that, and said he would prove to me that they came from there—I between that time and March I received several other letters from Welzenstein—I relieved him at a time when the wife was supposed to have been I knocked down by a horse—he stated that he was in great distress—that she I had neither doctor or clothes, and I gave him 7l. for some clothing—I believe he fetched it himself—this letter, dated 27th February, is his writing, I it was received by me (Read)—the 10s. referred to in that letter I had left at Kerschoffsky's when I received information that Madame Welzenstein had

been knocked down by a horse, and I saw Freicke there—when they moved to Manchester-street, I saw Freicke there once or twice—from March 1859 I peremptorily and repeatedly refused to have anything more to do with them—after that, Madame Welzenstein very often stopped me in the street, almost every night—I received this letter (produced)—I believe it is in the handwriting of Madame Welzenstein—I believe the signature is her's—whether the whole letter was written by her I could not say—I saw this I letter placed in her hands at the trial when she was examined as a witness in the action against me—she then swore that she wrote it herself (The letter was here read)—I received that letter about the end of March—I did not reply to it—I put it into the hands of my solicitor, and consulted him—between that and November I had no further applications, but I was served with a copy of a writ in the action that has been referred to—I was present at that trial in February last in the Court of Queen's Bench—on that trial these two letters (produced) were produced on the part of the present defendants, the then plaintiffs—this one dated Monday was produced by Jourdan, and the other, dated October 22d, 1858, by Madame Welzenstein—neither of those letters are in my handwriting—there is not the least pretence for the allegation that was made on the trial that I was ever guilty of the slightest impropriety or indecency towards Madame Welzenstein, or any pretence for the allegation in the other counts of the declaration that I was indebted to them 200l.; they owe me money, not I them—(Translations of the letters were produced as follows:)—"Monday:—Honoured Madame Welzenstein. I see that you perhaps feel more for me than you ought to as a wife, bat I do not know whether this sentiment is the result of gratitude or of—On my part, of course, it is anything but gratitude, and I think you will understand me as to your shawl. I have already told you that you shall have the same on your name's day, and you shall not only get this one piece but also the other two, and anything you may want, if you can manage to be away from home for one night. Be careful, however, and say at home that you have had to finish some work at a lady's. I expect you this evening at half-past 7 o'clock in Hanover-square, in order to talk more about it. I consider you—(a part of the letter here was burnt)—that you will destroy this. I remain your friend, J. Stohwasser"—"October 22d, 1858. Esteemed Mrs. Von Welzenstein. Manage matters this evening that Mr. Freicke is not there, and that you are alone—I will call upon you, and we will talk about the bazaar—I hope to find you well tonight, and that you will lay aside your resistance, for nothing will be of avail to you any longer—all obstacles are removed, and I think I have been waiting long enough—J. STHOWASSER."—several of the words and letters in those letters are similar to my writing—I call it a tolerably fair imitation to the best of my belief—I heard Madam Jourdan swear that the letter she produced, I handed to her—that is not true, I did not give her that letter; I never saw it before it was produced in the Queen's Bench at the trial, nor the one produced by Madame Welzenstein either.

Cross-examined by MR. KENKALY. Q. What is this German Benevolent Society that you are connected with? A. It is a society composed of a variety of German and English gentry, supported by annual subscriptions, out of which fund poor emigrants are relieved when they are recommended by a member—the Austrian embassy pays nothing towards it—I have been connected with it since 1836—it has no subscribers from any persons connected with the Austrian embassy to my knowledge—the society only advanced 1l. to Madame Welzenstein—I think I had seen the gentleman from

the Austrian embassy about three weeks before I brought the affair before the German society—Count Kotheck subsequently showed me a roll of paper, about 10 sheets, which was said to be got from Madame Welzenstein—this is the cheque for 31l. that I gave to pay the execution. (This was dated 30th October, 1858, on the Western Bank of London). I believe I only saw any person from the embassy once in reference to these people—that was when the Count called on me—I saw Count Apponyi last year—I returned the paper that Count Kotheck brought me—I kept it about a day—I received the letter signed "Sternfeldt" the same day that the Count called, relating the circumstances in a similar way as the Count told me; the Count said to me, "You being in London, may be able to make inquiries about the woman, she is a most deserving woman as far as we believe:" I am not aware that the embassy ever furnished any funds to give her: not through me—all the monies I have spoken of except the pound came out of my own pocket—I paid two visits to the residence of these people during the three weeks that elapsed between the time I saw the Count at the German Society—I did not see Madame Welzenstein more than twice elsewhere in that interval—I think it was about a fortnight after I got her the money from the Society that she came to me with the pawn tickets—I can't positively say how many pawn tickets there were; more than twenty—I do not exactly remember the quantity of things that were pawned—there was a large quantity of silk amongst it, I should think more than 100 yards—there were four sheets—I do not know of any silk cushions—there were two feather pillows covered with silk—there was a quantity of damask table-cloths of about twenty yards not made up, and also some pieces of damask napkins—there was not a great quantity of towelling, not above half-a-dozen or a dozen yards I should think—I can't say exactly, because, as I said before, after the things were taken out of pawn, they were lying in my shop, and we offered them to various persons for sale—some were bought by Baron Nicholay, a customer of mine, and he left 2l. 10s. which Madame Welzenstein had—I can't tell how many towels that quantity of damask would make—there was not enough to make three, dozen—there was not a quantity of French embroidery, you would not call it so if you saw it—there is a pattern of it (producing a piece)—no person who knows anything about cotton would call it embroidery—I call it printed cotton—this is what they called French embroidery—there was a hassock covered with velvet—there were some china plates and some larger plates, and some glass which they called antique—I do not recollect a bronze console for I a clock—there were some sheets, and two shawls—I could not state what things they were, that I handed back to Madame De Welzenstein—there were a few things of wearing apparel, shifts, and a variety of other things—I did not hand back any of the things you have read—I was obliged I to keep them—I could not sell them—at the time I was getting these things I heard that her husband was in America—it did not occur to me that I ought not to have bought them of a married woman whose husband was away—it was on 18th October, that she became ill; that was perhaps six weeks after the sale—she appeared very miserable when she was ill—I suppose I piqued her—I used to go into her bed-room, and saw her lying in bed several times—each time I called she was in bed—I always used to call at night—I can't say that I was particularly attentive to her; I once gave her a cup of tea—it was not necessary to put my arm round her to enable her to drink it, she could sit perfectly upright in bed—I did not help her to sit up—I am perfectly sure of that—I never put my hand round her when

she was in bed—I once gave her a partridge—I took it with me in my pocket one Sunday when I went there, and I sent her soup from the German Club at my expense, and they sent her generally at dinner-time as much as should last her the whole day—I took the partridge to her ready cooked, it was wrapped up in a piece of paper by my wife—I did not tell my wife that I was going to give it her in bed—I told her I was going to see her—I think the partridge and the soup were the only delicacies I took her during her illness—I will swear it—I took the partridge myself—what the proprietor of the hotel sent I could not positively say—I should think I visited her twice in a week, I could not positively say—I may have been two or three times in a week—it is three years ago—that went on during the time she was ill—I may have been to various women in their bed-rooms if they were ill—nobody was present on the occasions when I visited her, except once or twice the servant was in the room while I was there—she did not always remain in the room all the time I was there—she came up while I was there and walked away again—I remained talking and chatting very friendly—she had been ill about three weeks, perhaps less, when Sternfeldt came to me—I cannot positively say the day—Sternfeldt told me directly he came in that at my request he had come to see me respecting something that was to be done for Madame De Welzenstein, for the purpose of setting her up in business—he introduced himself as Sternfeldt, and said that he was the person who was sent by Madame—he said, "I am Mr. Sternfeldt, you have requested me to call"—I may not have asked him whether his name was Sternfeldt—I have not got the address that he left with me, it was lost or thrown away because it was of no consequence—I should think it must have been about the first week in November that he called upon me—that was the first time I had seen him—I swear that—I am not quite sure whether it was on 26th October that I called at their house, and saw tax persons there, I am not positive as to the date—His Lordship said the 26th, and I said, "Yes"—I did go to the house on 26th October—I did not see the six persons at the house at supper before Sternfeldt called on me he had been at my house before, and I afterwards called on Sunday—if you will bear in mind that to tell every circumstance of these transactions three years ago, is almost impossible, so strongly as you want me to do, and when you have not the slightest idea at the time, and when persons come and make it their business to assist persons of this kind—I may have sworn that I saw them on 26th October—I either saw Sternfeldt first at my house, or I saw the whole of them first at the house in Charlotte-street—I really could not tell which it was—I remained about twenty minutes that Sunday when I called—I joined them at supper but partook of nothing—I was introduced to the party, their names were mentioned—I do not know whether it was before or after that supper, that Sternfeldt called—I have no mode of discovering or telling you—I should think it was a week after that Sunday that I saw Mr. Corn; he is an Hungarian refugee—he was not employed by this German Society—he was occasionally relieved by the Society before he was better known, but when they found out what he was, they would have nothing to do with him—I had given him relief out of my own pocket some twelve months before that—it was long before the story that he told me about the De Wellzensteins, that he was found out to be no better than he should be—I knew he was a bad character when I told the story—this affair of the child was about the middle of November, from the 6th to the 12th—I had not been visiting frequently there before then—I had about once a week—I will swear I

only went once a week—I am not as sure of that as I was about 26th October, because as soon as she got better, I did not see the necessity of calling—I heard from the evidence in the Queen's Bench only, that the assault took place on 7th December—I generally went there after I left off work, going round to the club; it was half-past 7 or 8, not later—Madame de Welzenstein was always by herself—she was generally in the sitting room when she was well—I sometimes stayed a qnarter of an hour, and sometimes an hour, not administering charitable consolation—she used to tell me about her misfortunes and I remained listening—I did not always give her money when I went—she did uot exhaust her story after that repeated number of visits, there was always something very fresh—if I was a good deal excited by it, perhaps you might have been the same if you had seen the person—there was always a lamp in the room, because a lamp gives a better light than a candle—there were two sofas in the room—I had been there somewhere about 10 minutes on the night of the assault, when some man put his head in at the door—I was generally so uncivil as to have my hat on—I do so in a lady's presence when I see a poor person, because I like to leave when I like—my hat aud gloves were on on that occasion—I was not near the sofa—I was between the table and the fire-place—the screech I heard was from a man, I suppose—I thought it was Sternfeldt—it must have been either a screech of surprise, or an attempt at surprise—after the wife left the room, I heard two people talking very loudly in the next room as if they were quarrelling, and after three or four minutes I went away—I did not inquire what the quarrelling was about, there was no occasion—I only saw Sternfeldt twice, I knew who he was—she came after me that night to the club, and said that Sternfeldt had made an extraordinary assertion, which was, he accused her of taking improper liberties with me—she asked me if I would be good enough to go back with her and explain to him that the position she was in was nothing improper—she told me the quarrelling had been about that—I did not go back at once and explain the transaction; I wrote a letter—I considered myself insulted by his manner; he ought to have come in, and not opened the door and slammed it in that way; it was rude, and I did not go back—I met Sternfeldt the next day, and he said that he was perfectly satisfied with the explanation I had made—I told him he need not explain it any further—he did not afterwards tell me he had destroyed the letter, and I never suggested it to him—he did not send me an answer to that letter—I saw him, I should think, ten or twelve days after I wrote it—I did not, as soon as he said he was satisfied, suggest that the letter might be destroyed—I said nothing about the letter—about two days afterwards, I called on Madame Poninska, she said that she was very ill—I said, "What is the, I matter?"—she said, "He is partly out of his mind, as something has occurred I to him;" and I did not see him for about ten days—when I did see him, I am quite sure I did not say, "Let it be all forgotten, and let the letter be destroyed"—when it was suggested that they should go into that house in Eccleston-street, the ground floor was to be made into a milliner's, and Sternfeldt was to take the upper part of the house—I gave a reference—no person came to me upon it, but I called upon an auctioneer, Mr. Goldsmith—other persons came to me, to whom I did not give other references—I said to Mr. Goldsmith that they had been recommended to me by a very respectable person, who was Madame Pouinska, and that I had known them for some time, and that he was a Baron; a nobleman of large property—we saw several houses—it did uot occur to me that it was very strange to call

himself Sternfeldt in one week and Baron De Swanfeldt another week—I did not tell Goldsmith one word about this former deceit—when I gave Madame De Welzenstein 20l. to furnish this house, I did not get any voucher from her—it was in gold—all the money, I gave these persons was gold, except the cheque—I have no memoranda of these large sums of money which I say I have paid to them from time to time—I used not to put my hand in the till and fetch the money, I sometimes wrote a cheque and fetched it from the bank, because I do not like to give cheques to persons I do not know—he was a Baron, but if I gave him a cheque I must cross it, and then how was he to get it? that was the reason I always gave sovereigns—no human being out of the dock ever saw me give the prisoners a farthing—I keep a cash-book—when I make a gift of 200l. or 300l. I make no entry in the business accounts, but I have my own accounts—these sums are not entered in tho private accounts—this is not the only occasion when I have given money to this extent—I have given 700l. or 800l. away to poor persons—some have paid me, some have not—the female prisoner was by when he signed the I O U—the 30l. was a cheque I drew on my banker—I do not think I kept the cheques—I gave him the money in gold, I may have got it at my bankers—I did not get this from my bankers—I cannot say that this 30l. or the I O U was got on a cheque drawn by me on my bankers—I said so just now because you put so many questions that I got perfectly coufueed—I am perfectly sure that I opened my drawer, took out 25l. in gold and lent that—I am pecfectly sure of that—I gave instructions for an action to be brought on these two I O U's—I did not abandon that action—I know it was not tried—I said to my attorney, "I will leave it entirely in your hands;" I did not instruct him at all—Mr. Lewis had better answer the question, because I do not know what you mean—he has not told me that he had abandoned the action—I have not asked him what has become of my claim for 75l. on two occasions, because I know it is in my pocket—I did not visit them at Eccleston-terrace very often: not once a month; occasionally—the door was usually opened by Freicke, and I said, "Are they at home?" and walked in without saying any more—I used to ask the boy whether his master or mistress were at home—I did not usually mention the name—I do not know that they passed over the whole neighbourhood under the name of De Welzenstein—she went in that name at the house—I first heard that Sternfeldt was passing under the name of De Welzenstein, somewhere about the end of March or of April—Madame De Welzenstein told me that his name was De Welzenstein—they had been living in the house about three months at that time—I only once had refreshment there—that was not after I found out that his name was De Welzenstein—I had it with the two parties together—I was very ill in the cab, and I asked them if they had got a drop of brandy in the house—I did not know that they were man and wife, and when I saw them together I never believed it—I did not give a reference with them to many other places besides that—there was a person named Shrul who I knew very well, but he never referred to me about these people—I went once to him to inquire whether he knew whether she was not De Welzenstein—that was at the early part, when Corn gave information—I requested him to go and prove what he had stated, but he refused—he did not tell me her name was De Welzenstein—he said that her name was Statina—that man (A policeman,) may have been in my shop, but I do not recollect his face—I have no knowledge whatever of a conversation with him about the Do Welzonsteins and about some clothes—I do not

recollect that any person came and made inquiries about the De Welzensteins and the silk that I bought—I did not say to anybody that I did not know the De Welzensteins—I have no recollection that the same person said, "How can that be, have not you been a reference to the house where they went?"; not the slightest, and I will swear that it did not take place—I did not see him—I do not know whether the house at Eccleston-square was furnished by a man named Nash—I did not see Mr. Nash till he came to my house for 31l.—yes, I saw him once at his own shop—I advised Nash not to leave his goods unless he got his money—that was the same evening that I had left 40l. at his house—he showed me the invoice of the goods—I did not say that the De Welzensteins were relations of mine—I never gave directions to them to say that I was a relation—Nash did not come and tell me that I was a relation—I certainly asked him to give credit as I was positive that the people were able to pay for his goods, which were 30l., and paid 20l. cash down besides the bill, and they kept the bills in their pockets—De Welzenstein did not give me more than one entry—when I gave him 35l. that was not by a cheque on my banker, it was all gold taken out of my till—the goods were sold in the name of Kraill, who is a friend of mine—I suggested that, and promised Kraill to do so—it was not me that introduced Kraill to Oxenham; Kraill's cousin was a clerk there, and Mr. Kraill did it himself—I did not send him, he did it on his own account—I did not draw a cheque on my bankers for the 20l.—I gave it him to take his wife to America—the only sum which was got from my bankers was that for which the I O U is for 30l.—I sometimes got the money myself, sometimes by a cheque—I paid them in gold—it was not paid by a cheque drawn by me on my banker, you ask me the same question so many times over and over again—I paid the 20l. on a Sunday in the first week in October, before he went to America—it was a few days after I gave it to him that I told him he was to take his wife—I wrote to him remonstrating with him on this breach of faith, and still he left her behind—after that I gave him more money—the watch and brooch was given at the latter part of September, or the early part of October—after he sailed for America, or disappeared, I did not begin to visit Madame De Welzenstein again till she sent Friecke—she had given up calling at my shop—before that time I had not seen her in Hanover-square, or in Lisle-street, or in St. James's-park—I should think I saw her in King's coffee-house in 1857—she said that she had nothing to eat, and I took her there—both the rooms there are public—we stayed there the usual time, and the waiter came in and out of the room—there was no other guest there to the best of my recollection—she used to meet me in Hanover-square—I met her there when I gave her 20l. on the letter to pay the bill, that was in the middle of the day about May—and when they were in Eccleston-terrace, I met her because she came to my house and I told her I had no money in the house but would go to the bank and get it for her—the bank is in Hanover-square, and I went and got it by cheque—I have not got that cheque—I left her there with the money—I have never seen her in St. James's-park—I have never met her there in the evening—we have never sat on the seats there—I went with her twice to Lisle-street during the time her husband was away—there came a letter from Vienna, and a letter from America on another occasion, and I took them—he used to address his letters at my house—the visitor came to Lisle-street about half-past 7—I gave her money in Lisle-street, 2l. or 3l.—I did not pay her on each occasion; on one occasion I gave her

money, and on another occasion I left money in the cook's shop—there was not a sofa in Lisle-street at first nor did one come afterwards exactly, it belonged to the things that were seized, and as I had paid 32l. it remained there for the purpose of being covered—it is not there now—I never kissed her in Lisle-street, that I swear; nor did I sit with her on that sofa—I always sat on a chair with my hat on—my gloves might be on—I do not know where she moved to from Lisle-street, I never visited her after—I went to Duke-street in 1857 to a tailor, a friend of mine, named Ritters-camp, who said, "Are you answerable for her respectability?"—I said, "Yes;" and paid the rent for her for the first quarter—I looked out for lodgings for her because she could not talk English—I mentioned Madame De Welzenstein to my friend Ritterscamp as the person I wanted to take lodgings for—he was formerly one of my workmen—I will undertake to swear I did not give a different name to Ritterscamp or the woman's name; how could I?—I asked him if he would take a person in, and said that the person's name was De Welzenstein—Madame De Welzenstein met me in the street and stopped me very often, that was in February 1859—she kept that up during the whole of the month a good deal, stopping me every night—I have seen her write, I swear that; and I will tell you the occasion too—she produced a marriage certificate at Little St. Thomas-Apostle, City—I asked her if she would give it to me because I wanted to see whether it was genuine—I said, "Be good enough to write your name on the back of the paper," and she did so on Sunday morning, and I took it to the Church and asked leave to compare it with the register, but the man could not satisfy my inquiry, and I took no further notice of that bit of writing—when it was produced before me in the Court of Queen's Bench I said that I did not know it—I do not remember whether the Lord Chief Justice called her upand asked her whether it was her writing—you have got a short-hand writer there—it was only last February, but I have a good deal to do and cannot remember a little trifle—I remember the Judge calling her, and I suppose she came up and that he put the paper before her—that was the paper you showed me just now—I saw the Lord Chief Justice write on it, and should think this is the paper he wrote on—I could not swear it, but His Lordship ordered it to be impounded, and there it is—I have taken no trouble to ascertain whether it is true that Madame De Welzenstein is the daughter of an Austrian field-marshal.

Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. Freicke was never present when you gave any money? A. He was never present except on one occasion when the Sherift's officer, and he and I, paid the execution out—he did not open the door when I visited Madame in Charlotte-street—I first saw him in Eccleston-street, he occasionally opened the door to me there—I used to say, "How do you do Sir," and sometimes,—he called at my shop to see if I could get some work for him; I tried, but did not succeed—I saw him twice or three times afterwards when they removed to Manchester-street.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. I understand you to sty that you had no cheque or anything of that kind, or any of the monies you gave to Madame De Welzenstein. A. No; I cannot even produce any cheques which I drew and cashed—I last saw Madame Poninska as guardian to the De Welzensteins before this occasion on 18th July, 1858, but she met me in the street once afterwards, and I have not seen her since—while she was in Eccleston-terrace I swear I was not in the habit of visiting her almost every evening—I did not almost every evening in the week visit her and stay with her for an hour together, on my oath—I did not let

myself out of the house, generally the male prisoner or the female let me out, according to who was at home—I was not in the habit of visiting her and remaining for an hour or two in her company, three or four times a week—when the money borrowing was on, it was natural that they should write to me to come when he asked for money; I went to see what he had to say, and I went again when I brought him the money, but on no other occasion within twice—I gave him 20l. and 40l. and two other sums of 20l.—I think I saw her twice or three times in Manchester-street after her husband had gone to America, and twice or three times in Lisle-streefc, Leicester-square—I did not meet her in Hanover-square after her husband left—I gave her 16l. in Manchester-street, and about 3l. in Lisle-steeet—I cannot say whether I have given her 200l. altogether—Madame Poninska did not tell me that Lady Stanley of Alderley had introduced Madame De Welzenstein to me, because Madame Poninska told me that she had introduced Madame De Welzenstein to Lady Stanley; just vice versa—Madame Poninska at that time carried on business as a florist in Mount-street, Grosvenor-square—I swear positively I never gave her that letter—I left one letter for Madame De Welzenstein in November, that was not after her husband had gone, it was in 1857, before I knew she had a husband—this (produced) is the letter that Madame Poninska produced at the trial at the Queen's Bench, and swore that I gave to her—I did not on my oath, go on one occasion to Madame's shop in Mount-street, nor did she reproach me with having sent that letter, and order me out of the shop—(Amelia Emmerson was here pointed out to the witness)—I saw that person about five weeks ago—Madame Poninska did not in her presence turn me out of the shop—I swear that Madame Poninska walked ten times in one day up and down in front of my house, and ultimately walked in at the door, and I desired my clerk to go and ask her her name—I swear that Madame Jourdan never put any unpleasant question to me—I understand the German language—she never spoke to me in an unfriendly manner—she never showed me any letter, and never reproached me with anything—the letter that I left in 1857 was merely on giving Madame de Welzenstein some advice—I sent it to Madame Poninska because she was in the habit of working there in the day—I do not know whether she worked as a florist—it was shortly after her illness, and before the assault took place—I was not in the habit of going there often to see her at Madame Jourdan's—I used to go to see the husbaud—I gave advice to this married woman because she asked me—I saw her the evening before at Madame Poninska's, and she asked me to allow her to go with me—she walked down Mount-street with me, and asked me to get Madame Poninska not to make her go and live there, or she should be sure to fall out with her—I thought there might be some row occur, and I wrote to her on the following day, leaving the letter of advice with Madame Pouinska—I had given Madame de Welzenstein money at that time, decidedly—I stated so in the first examination—I had constantly relieved her at the time I sent that letter—I had not given her 50l. or 100l. because she could not require so much—you forget entirely that her husband was away—no one is here from the Austrian embassy that I am aware of—on one occasion Madame Poninska had the misfortune of having her house burnt down; that was on 17th July, and knowing that her husband was out, I went up and inquired what bad become of the woman—I heard she had gone to Eccleston-square—I went there, and asked if she was there—they said, "Yes; she is up stairs"—I asked what state she was in, having been told that there were

several burnt—they told me I had better walk up stairs, and I walked up and saw her, she was in bed—poor women seldom have more than one room, and I find them in bed when they are ill, and sometimes find all the children naked—Madame Poninska did not order me out; she was very happy to see me there.

MR. HUDDLESTONE. Q. You have been asked about going to Madame De Welzenstein, and visiting her at Eccleston-street and Lisle-street, did you ever take any liberty indecent, or otherwise, with her? A. Not the slightest—I can only say that she worked on my feelings of religion more than in any other way—I am married, and have grown-up daughters—there is not the slightest pretence for the suggestion made that I have had any improper connexion with her—I am 58 years of age—when they were at the Court of Queen's Bench, with the exception of the assault and the two letters, these people did not venture to say anything against me; not the slightest—these were worn out old shirts—they are now in the state they were then—I believe one of them swore at the trial that the shawl was worth 18l., and it is not worth 50s.—I gave them more than the full value of these things, when I took them out of pawn—everything was dirty and soiled in the pawnbroker's shop—I called on them in the evening, as I generally got away from my shop about 7 o'clock—my wife gave me the partridge to take to Madame de Welzenstein hearing that she was ill, and I took it—they made no suggestion at the Court of Queen's Bench to me that I had suggested to De Welzenstein to destroy the letter that I bad sent to him as Sternfeldt—I believed that he was a nobleman—I had not discovered that they were man and wife at the time I gave the reference to Goldsmith—I have spent considerable sums in assisting and relieving my countrymen—I do not make memoranda of the money I give away—I sometimes have 300l. or 400l. in my till at one time—customers paying during the day, I have had sometimes 5,000l. in my till in one week—I was asked a question about bringing an action on the I O U's., I left that to my attorney—on the occasion that I told Madame de Welzenstein to go to Kuhu's coffee-house, it rained, and I told her to go in and have something to eat—she would not go alone, and as I knew Ku✗hu, I went with her—he knows that I am married, and the father of grown-up daughters—he lives in Hanover-street—it is about a month ago that I saw the young woman walking about in front of my house—Madame Poninska walked about for two hours, and after that I saw a person come into the hall—that was after the prisoners were committed for trial, and were out on bail—I never saw that girl at Madame Poninska's—there is a hall into my shop, and a glass door from it into my private bouse—I always stand in the window doing my work—she could not see me from the street, and came into the hall—I thought it was a move of some description.

ODDY ABRAHAMS . I am a foreman in Mr. Stohwasser's employ, and was so in the middle of 1857—I have seen Madame de Welzenstein at 39, Conduit-street, Mr. Stohwasser's shop—I first saw her about June, 1857—the first or second time she came there was a little child with her—Mr. Stohwasser was there the first time she came, but I was too far off to bear their conversation—she came on other occasions—I may have seen her there a dozen times off and on—on the first or second occasion I saw Mr. Stohwasser's hand go to the till, and once to his pocket, and he gave her something—she did not speak to me at first about what she came about; but afterwards she came about the pawn tickets—Mr. Stohwasser afterwards consulted me about them—Madame de Welzenstein was there, and the conversation

was in English—she does not speak English; she speaks German—I have never had any conversation with her in English, and don't know whether she understands it—the pawn tickets were there—she wanted to sell them—she wanted Mr. Stohwasser to give her 5l. and take them, because she wanted money—he said that he would not buy them, and talked to me and said that we were not dealers in pawn tickets—it was a very interesting child, with no father to work for him; and we came to an understanding to get the things out of pawn, and make the best effort for her, and not for ourselves—there were a number of tickets—Mr. Stohwasser afterwards gave me the money to redeem the articles—she did not leave all the tickets, she left about 23 or 24—Mr. Stohwasser reckoned up the capital and the interest, and gave me 22l. to start with, with which I took the pawn tickets, and took the things out of pledge—I paid upwards of 21l., got the goods, and brought them to Mr. Stohwasser's shop—they consisted of a good many lengths of silk, sheets, damask—I cannot recollect the whole of them, because I had everything in a memorandum book, which I bought for the purpose; but it is so many years ago that I cannot recollect—Mr. Stohwasser directed me to have some of the things valued, and I took some of them to Hodge and Lowman's, the silk mercers, who valued them, and wrote the value on little slips; and I reported to Mr. Stohwasser what I had done—after I had done that, the woman came to the shop again—Mr. Stohwasser spoke to her, and said that the things which were of no use to us, such as a woman's dress, and a second-hand coat, she might take away when she liked—he gave up about one-third of them, or a little better—I made it the best of my business to ascertain the worth of the other things, and Mr. Stohwasser told her that he would get rid of them the best way he could—I remember he gave her some money, in the shop, from time to time, 2l. or 3l. at a time, it may be more or less, on account of these things, and when the settling day came she had overdrawn the constable—she came to me, and I gave her some small sums of money, and Mr. Stohwasser said to me, "If you want to give away money, do not give it away without my permission"—he gave her other sums, including the 22l.—I have relieved her once or twice—she was always very much obliged—I did so because she said she had no money; and as Mr. Stohwasser was out of town, I gave her a trifle on account—she was very thankful indeed; always very pleased: she used to try to kiss Mr. Stohwasser's hand—I believe it is a fashion where she comes from; to show her gratitude, I suppose—he did not like it; he got out of the way the best way he could, and I have heard him tell her not to have any of that nonsense—the 34l. was the full value of the stock—I would not value it so high, but I had an interest for her, and in the interesting child, which she called her daughter—I did the best I could, not to wrong my governor, for which she was very thankful.

JOHN NASH . I am a furniture dealer in Princes-street, Hanover-square—in 1858 Madame Poninska called on me and said that she could recommend me a good customer—I said I should be very glad to serve one on her recommendation—I saw Madame de Welzenstein, who told me that Mr. Stohwasser was her uncle, and lived in Conduit-street—I went there, saw the name on the window-blind, and therefore I thought it was true—I did not go in and ask Stohwasser whether it was his niece—I let her have furniture to the amount of about 45l., for which De Welzenstein gave me bills—Mr. Stohwasser came to my shop one morning previous to my sending in any of the goods; and when I had got the bill ready made out, I told him I was going to take a bill of exchange for it, and he advised me not to do so

as I should not get the money—he offered me about 5l. less, but I would not take it, and preferred taking a bill—I afterwards got a portion of the money—I afterwards made a formal application, to De Welzenstein, but could not see him, and I wrote him a letter—I did see him afterwards, and he said that he was expecting money from Germany—I afterwards obtained a judgment against him, and put in an execution in Manchester-street, and Mr. Stohwasser gave me this cheque for 31l. (produced)—Kerschofiski proposed to pay half, but never did.

Cross-examined by MR. KENEALY. Q. Was the invoice made out in the proper way, with the name of De Welzenstein on it? A. Yes; they brought the goods and gave the bills in that name—the furniture was publicly removed to Eccleston-street in that name, but unknown to me—I delivered the goods—Mr. Stohwasser was with me about two minutes, bargaining about the reduction of 6l.—De Welzenstein had not paid me 14l. on account—he did afterwards—he said that he had been disappointed in his remittances for the rest—I think that it was in February, 1858, that I had the first interview with Mr. Stohwasser, and showed him the invoice.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Have you known Madame Poninska trading as a florist in Mount-street many years? A. Yes—I furnished her house, and she paid me honourably, verging on 200l.—I have known her since 1857, and never heard a suspicion against her till now—I believe she serves a great many ladies of title at the West-end—she has a very respectable business, and a very good connexion.

MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. Have you known Madame Poninska in any other name? A. No—I was in her house when I furnished it for her—I did not know her when she lived in Sherrard-street or Dean-street, Soho—I do not know a person named Jourdan, or that she is calling herself Madame Jourdan—I thought she was married—I saw a gentleman who called himself Poninska in Mount-street—I do not know what he was, but he was always in the business there.

AUGUSTA BORDFELDT . I am the wife of Edward Bordfeldt, and live at 57, Charlotte-street, Fitzroy-square, in the same house as Madame De Welzenstein—I have a child about three years and a half old—Madame Jourdan or Poninska came to Charlotte-street after the affair with the ohild had happened—she said I was for the moment to tell when the old gentleman came that it was not my child; that it was only for a joke—she said the old gentleman was Mr. Stohwasser—I remember his coming with Madame Poninska, who went to fetch him—I did not see how they came, being in a back room at the time—Madame Poninska came into the room where I was, and said, "Now the old gentleman is here;" and that I should just, say for the moment, pro formd, that it was not my child, and I should not smile upon the child—Madame Poninska called me into the room when she, Madame De Welzenstein, and Mr. Stohwasser were there—Madame Poninska spoke to the child—she said, "My child, don't say that this is your mamma, but look at aunt De Welzenstein, and say that that is your mamma"—when Mr. Stohwasser was there, Madame Poninska asked Ann, "My child, where is your mamma," and the child very bashfully went to Madame De Welzenstein—Mr. Stohwasser did not say a word to the child—I cannot recollect whether anybody asked who I was; yes, I now recollect Madame Poninska said, pointing to me, "That is your aunt, mind"—the child said nothing, but Madame De Welzenstein took it in her arms and

kissed it, and I went out of the room—before that day Madame De Welzenstein had gone by the name of Sternfeldt.

Cross-examined by MR. KENEALY. Q. Did not Madame De Welzenstein and De Welzenstein pass as husband and wife? A. Yes—they behaved to each other openly as husband and wife—I did not observe anything particular about them—Mr. Sternfeldt very often went down into the kitchen when somebody came, but for what cause or reason I cannot say—I remember their living at Ecclestou-terrace—they lived there openly as husband and wife—they were well known as De Welzenstein and wife.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. When did you first become acquainted with them? A. When I arrived in London; I think in February, 1857—the first time I saw Madame Poninska was on the day when she came to the house about the child—that was in the summer time, but I don't know when—when I spoke about seeing her after the affair of the child, I meant on the day when that affair happened—I had many times before that, heard of Madame Poninska, but had never seen her—I never lent my child to Madame De Welzenstein—we lived there, and the child had only to go from one room to the other—I had never seen Mr. Stohwasser at Madame De Welzenstein's before the affair about the child—I have not been receiving any relief from Mr. Stohwasser in the way of money, or through any German society—I am certain of that, nor has my husband one farthing that I know of—I can swear I have not received any, either from Mr. Stohwasser, or any society he is connected with—I have received nothing in the way of charity from any one since this affair—I never received more than what my husband earned in his business—he is a gilder—I did not allow the child to call me Aunt Bordfeldt—children call everybody aunt or uncle—it is an endearing expression in Germany—children will always call any one so whom they know—Madame Poninska said in Mr. Stohwasser's presence, "Is it not true; is not that your Aunt Bordfeldt?"—the child said nothing—I told Madame Poninska that I would not give or lend my child for that, and she said, "Oh, it is only for a joke; the old gentleman knows it"—I believed it was a joke, but they knew how to put it—they did it as if something was the matter, or something was to be done—I did not know what, but they knew how to put it plausibly.

MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. You say before that day Madame De Welzenstein went under the name of Sternfeldt, after that she took the name of Welzenstein; what name did Sternfeldt or De Welzenstein continue to be called after that day? A. De Welzenstein—that was at the house in Charlotte-Street—I never knew him under the name of Schwannenfeldt—Freicke lived there during the time I was in Charlotte-street—he had his meals with them—he afterwards went with them to Eccleston-terrace—Madame Poninska used to come there sometimes, after the affair of the child, and sometimes she took a cup of tea or coffee there.

COURT. Q. What do you mean by Freicke living with them? A. Afterwards he lived down stairs in the kitchen when I had the back room in Charlotte-street—before that he lived in the back room which I afterwards occupied—he had his meals with them both in Charlotte-street and in Eccleston-terrace—there were two rooms, one of which De Welzenstein occupied, and the other Freicke.

JURY. Q. Is Freicke any relation of their's? A. No.

EDWARD BORDFELDT . (Through an Interpreter.) I live at 32, Rathbone-place, and am a carver and gilder—I know De Welzenstein and the woman

called De Welzenstein—I lived in Charlotte-street when they were living there—I remained there myself three or four months, my wife some time before—in consequence of hearing something that bad taken place about my child, I spoke to Madame De Welzenstein, but that was after I had left the house—she came to me, and begged me to allow my child to go to her for a few days, that she had not been able during my stay at the house to bestow the necessary care on the child, and that she would do it better now—I gave her the child—about a week afterwards Mr. Corn's daughter told me something—I then went to Madame De Welzenstein—she was not at home, but I took my child away, and took her home—Madame De Welzenstein afterwards came to me, and said that whatever I had been informed of, were lies and falsehoods—I toid her that I had heard that the child was used for the purpose of creating pity with some people—I told her more, but I have put it short now, that was the purport of it—she said that all these were fabricated stories and lies; that she never had done so, and it proves that these people knew I did not believe what they had said, that I should allow the child to go back and give the child back to her—I allowed the child to go back—I had no further conversation with her about the child—I was asked to go to Mr. Stohwasser, he sent my wife to request me to call—I told Madame De Welzenstein that I was going to Mr. Stohwasser—I did not tell her what it was about, I did not know—when I told her I was going to Mr. Stohwasser, she said that she knew very well it was about the affair of the child that I had to go there on, that I should not say to Mr. Stohwasser if he should ask me, that that was my child, and that Mr. Stohwasser took interest in her, and if ever he found out that stories had been told him, that he would draw back his hands from them—I do not remember that she said anything further about Mr. Stohwasser—she did not say anything at that time in to what Mr. Stohwasser was doing for her, she did not say what he had done—I know Freicke, he was living at Charlotte-street—I have seen Poninska at Charlotte-street, perhaps three or four times—I have been to Charlotte-street when Mr. Stohwasser was there, and De Welzenstein and Madame De Welzenstein; when Mr. Stohwasser was there, De Welzenstein was called Stemfeldt—since the prisoners have been in custody, I was sent for to go to Newgate—I received a letter from De Welzenstein, I have not got the letter, I burnt them all—I received some from Freicke and some from De Welzenstein—in consequence of these letters, I went to the prison—the letters were to request me to go there—I saw there Madame De Welzenstein, Mr. De Welzenstein and Freicke—I spoke to them about several things, particularly as I had accepted the arrangement for their goods, for their effects, they were at the landlord's—I had undertaken to settle these matters—a long conversation ensued about different things concerning this case—these people wanted to get liberated, and asked my advice how they were to go on, and so on—nothing was said about the two letters that were produced at the trial—I do not recollect if anything was said about Poninska—Madame De Welzenstein did not say anything about the two letters produced on the trial, said to be written by Mr. Stohwasser.

Cross-examined by MR. KENEALY. Q. How long were you living in Charlotte-street with the De Welzensteins? A. About six weeks—I never knew why he left Austria, I knew that he left under some unhappy circumstances; that was the reason he passed under the name of Stemfeldt—I do not know that persons inquired after him, and he denied himself—Madame and Mr. De Welzenstein lived openly and publicly as man and wife, as far as I

know, to every one who came to the house, and she called herself Sternfeldt,—I made their acquaintance in the name of Sternfeldt, I knew their name was De Welzenstein after wards at Eccleston-terrace—lor my wife knew them as De Welzenstein in Charlotte-street, only Mr. De Welzenstein—when Welzenstein took the house or was about to enter upon the house iu Eccleston-terrace, he then told me that from that time he would pass under his right name, Edward Von Welzenstein—I visited them very often in Eccleston-terrace—they were known in the neighbourhood by the name of Mr. and Madame De Welzenstein as much as anybody is known—I remember a page that was there who used to open the door—whatever information I received about this child I got from Corn's daughter—I do not remember all that she said to me—Madame De Welzenstein said they were lies—that conversation was probably in June or July 1857—I know now for what purpose I was called—it was not about a sum of 8l. for Corn—I never heard that it was Mr. Stohwasser told my wife that he wanted to see me, and she brought me his card—before that I was requested to go to Mr. Stohwasser for some money—I called to Madame De Welzenstein about going about a sum of 8l. for Corn—I am not positive whether Mr. Stohwasser partook of the supper when he was there—I did not tell Mr. Stohwasser the child was mine, because he did not ask me the question.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Did you know Madame Poninska as Madame Jourdan at any time? A. I never heard her called Jourdan, I always heard her called Poninska—I knew Mr. Jourdan, I did not know him as Poninska—Mr. Stohwasser on one occasion took supper or came in while I, Jourdan, and the De Welzensteins were at supper—that was in Charlotte-street—I never knew Madame Jourdan before, but as long as I have known her I know she lived in Mount-street, and carried on business as a florist under the name of Poninska.

MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. Did you know whether Jourdan was Poninska's husband? A. I can't know that—these people have been living together, and I believe so—I don't think Madame Poninska was present at the supper—De Welzenstein did not tell me under what distressing circumstances he left Austria.

MATALINA LIEBERING . I knew De Welzenstein and the female De Welzenstein in Charlotte-street as Mr. and Mrs. Sternfeldt—I opened the door for Poninska when she first came to the house—she did not speak to the child that I saw—I remember something taking place about the child and Mr. Stohwasser—Madame Sternfeldt was in a distressing and unhappy position, and she took the child as her own, adopted the child as her own in order to create pity, and that people should give her something, saying that her husband had gone to America and left her behind—I remember the child being shown to Stohwasser as Madame De Welzenstein's child—I don't know who Stohwasser came with, he came in a cab to the door and Madame Sternfeldt called on us to go down stairs, as Mr. Stohwasser and Madame Poninska had arrived—I do not know what took place in the room, because I was in the kitchen—I don't recollect whether Madame Poninska or Madame De Welzenstein said anything to me about it—Madame De Welzenstein or Sternfeldt said that all passed well and happily, that Mr. Stohwasser believed this to be her child, and that he had pity on her and would now speak for her—I heard her tell the child if she was a good child and said what she was to say, she should have some frocks—Freicke was in the house all that time, he took his meals with them.

Cross-examined by MR. KENEALY. Q. Did you move with them to

Eccleston-terrace? A. No—I lived with them from July to 23d December—it will be three years old this year—I was with them in 1857; that was in Charlotte-street all the time—I did not know their name was De Welzenstein—I knew them as Mr. and Mrs. Sternfeldt; they lived openly as man and wife—he called her his wife, and she called him her husband—Stohwasser was in the habit of coming there about twice a week; I can't say exactly—it was not oftener that I know of; I only know of once that he came in the evening—my daughter usually let him in—she is here; she was here yesterday—she is a witness—I remember Mrs. De Welzenstein being sick, but I can't fix the time—she was ill about three or four weeks—I can't recollect Stohwasser visiting her in her bedroom; I think once when she was ill he did so—I once saw him in the bedroom while she was ill; I let him in—that was not at night, it was either in the morning or afternoon; I don't know—I can swear it was not that night—I can't sweat what time it was—it is three years past now, and I do not recollect—I never had any wages—I was only needle-woman there—she does not owe me anything—I did needle-work for them—I was to have 9s. a week, but they always left some little balance due—they gave me at one time 5s. at another 6s.—the balance now might be about 2l.

CHARLES KIEBER . I am a wholesale draper, in Vigo-street—I know Mr. Stohwasser—in consequence of what he said to me in the early part of 1859, I went with him to an eating-house in Rupert-street, kept by a Pole named Krochoffski—I went in inside—Mr. Stohwasser remained just at the entrance door—I saw Krochoffski and Madame De Welzenstein—I said that if she had anything to say to Mr. Stohwasser, she might do so—she came out and wanted Mr. Stohwasser to draw on one side—he declined speaking to her by himself, and said that if she had anything to say, he had brought a friend for the purpose of being with him to know what ghe wanted of him—she tried very hard to get him into the parlour on the ground floor—however he said he would not go in—I left her my card, and said if she had anything to say, she might communicate with me, as I was a friend of Mr. Stohwasser's—we then left the house—she afterwards came to my house three or four times—she said her husband had come back from America, and she wanted some money to go away; she was not comfortable at home—she made several stories at several times—she said she wanted money to go into the country at one time; and on subsequent occasions when her husband was with her, they professed to want money to open a cigar business—I asked them upon what principle they meant to ask Mr. Stohwasser for any money; what was their claim, and whether they thought he would lend everybody money that chose to ask him—they said "No, but Mr. Stohwasser had so identified himself with their misfortunes, and had done so much for them, that they thought he would not let them be wanting at the last moment when they were about to begin business for themselves—they said Mr. Stohwasser was very rich; and he, De Welzenstein, was very poor, and wanted money; and he said if that was refused to him", he would play the game of a desperate—he said he had letters in his possession which would completely destroy the high opinion in which Mr. Stohwasser stood; and if he was a wise man, he would not stick at the paltry amount which they had asked him now for finally—they wanted about 50l. or 60l.—I do not think they would have been particular to 10l.—I think this was in March, 1859—I gave the dates before from memoranda which I made at the time—I think the amount Madame De Welzenstein

mentioned when she was alone, was 30/. or 40£, that she wanted to go away with from her husband.

Cross-examined by MR. KENEALY. Q. Did not she say that if her husband knew all, he would make her life miserable? A. She told a great many things—she told that amongst others—she said she could not live comfortable with him; she wanted to run away in the country—I hare known Mr. Stohwasser several years—I am an intimate friend of his—I can't exactly recollect the words Madame De Welzenstein told me—if she did not say the words you put, she said words to a similar effect—she said she was miserable—she did not say anything about what her husband knew—I Went there to get her to speak to Mr. Stohwasser in my presence—I was there to be a witness to what the game was; what she wanted to see him for—she said she wanted money—she said since her husband had come back from America, she felt very miserable and wanted some money to go into the country—she said he made her life miserable; that was why she wanted to go away—she said she was miserable then—I have been examined before—she said her husband was making her life miserable, and she wanted to go into the country—I cannot recollect that she said he would make her life miserable if he knew all—she kept crying all the while, and saying she felt miserable at home, she could not stop any longer; and if Mr. Stohwasser would give her 40l. or 50l., she would go into the country and live away from him—I think I saw the husband a day or two after—he came three or four times to my house—it was all within a week or a fortnight—I did not know him before—I wrote down what he said when he was there—I did not write it while he was there; I put it down as soon as he had gone—we had the conversation in German—I wrote down what Madame De Welzenstein stated, after she had gone—I have not got it here—I had it at Marlborough-street when I made my deposition, and I refreshed my memory from it when I gave my evidence there—it is at home—I have read it since—the last time I saw it was perhaps a week ago—De Welzenstein told me that he had letters that would expose Mr. Stohwasser—I cannot call to mind that Madame De Welzenstein stated there was something which she could tell her husband.

MR. HUDDLESTONE. Q. You were examined before the Magistrate? A. Yes; what I said was taken down in writing—this is it—it has my signature.

(MR. HUDDLESTONE proposed to read the deposition. THE COURT suggested that it could only be read for the purpose of contradiction, or by consent. MR. KENEALY stated that he had no objection to its being read, but would leave it in the hands of the Court. The deposition was not read.)

HENRY OXENHAM . I am an auctioneer—on 24th September, 1858, we sold a quantity of furniture that came from Eccleston terrace—it fetched 57l. 16s.—5l. 11s. 6d. of that was for expenses—the balance, 54l. 2s. 6d. was paid to George Kraill.

Cross-examined by MR. KENEALY. Q. Did you ever see Kraill? A. No.

HENRY SCHEIGES I am a teacher of languages—I have known Mr. Stohwasser about fourteen years—I am acquainted with his handwriting—I have seen it very often—neither of these two letters, in my opinion, are in his handwriting—they bear a slight resemblance to his, particularly, I should say, the signature—I do not believe them to be in his handwriting.

Cross-examined by MR. KENEALY. Q. Have you seen him write very often? A. Yes—I cannot compare exactly the writing of all the times that I have seen—there is a difference at times in it, as much as with most

person's writing—there is not as far as I know, a greater difference in his writing than in most person's—these two I O U's appear to me the same character of writing—I believe these are written by the same hand—I had not seen them before—I should say these are written by Mr. Stohwasser—there is a difference between them, but none that would strike me; one is larger—in my judgment, the largeness makes no difference in the character of the writing—I do not see any remarkable difference in the handwriting of these two—the p's in the word pound are certainly very different from one another, but I look at the signature—there is nothing else but the difference of the p's, in the word pound.

Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. Will you just look at this handwriting; is that Mr. Stohwasser's handwriting? A. At first sight I consider it Mr. Stohwasser's writing—it is his handwriting.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. That is the letter my friend put to you, is it not, which you believe to be his handwriting? A. The last letter which I have seen, I had the impression upon looking at it, that it was Mr. Stohwasser's handwriting—I believe that this is not in the handwriting of Mr. Stohwasser—my attention was called to these letters yesterday, for the first time—I was not subpœnaed at all on the trial in the Queen's Bench; only on this trial—I will state that I consider thitf signature an imitation of Mr. Stohwasser's handwriting—I know I have to speak on my oath—I call this a current handwriting, written by Germans'—I should think no foreigner would be able to write this kind of hand—this "w," in the signature of Stohwasser, I should not call exactly either a German or an English w; it is something between the two almost—(The witness was here requested to write the name of Stohwaster in the current German hand)—I don't mean to represent that the w I have written there is at all like that w; the signature is written in English, not in German—the signature of the cheque resembles the signature of these letters—I have seen Mr. Stohwasser write very often within fourteen yean—I read an account of a former case in the newspapers—I cannot recollect whether I was aware before I came to look at these signatures, that Mr. Stohwasser had deposed on his oath that they were not his handwriting—I knew I was coming here to look at the letters which Mr. Stohwasser had said were not his handwriting—I understood so—(Looking at another paper marked R. G. 2)—I am not decided as to whether I believe that to be Mr. Stohwasser's writing—it may be or it may not be.

ERNEST BECKER . I am an artist—I have known Mr. Stohwasser it may be ten years or longer—I have had an opportunity of becoming acquainted with his handwriting—I have frequently seen him write—I do not believe these two letters to be in his handwriting—the shorter one decidedly is not; nor is the other.

Cross-examined by MR. KENBALT. Q. Is there not sometimes a distinction in the way in which he writes? A. No, I should say not—he always writes very much the same hand—there is a resemblance between these and the body of these 10 U's, but these two are written in English—he may, perhaps write a little differently when he writes English to what he does when he writes in German—I do not see bo much of his English writing as of his German; there is a difference between these two—one is written a little more carefully—it is not a remarkable difference—one is written with a, little more attention, and the other a little quicker—he is not more in the habit of writing differently at different times than any one else—I heard Mr. Scheigas examined—I have not seen all these documents before, these

two letters I have, but not this cheque or the IOU's—I have followed the case in the Queen's Bench—the word "pound" in this cheque differs from the word "pound" in one of the IOU's.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. You were aware, were you not, that you were coming to look at letters which Mr. Stohwasser denied to be his handwriting? A. Yes, certainly—I knew that from the trial in the Queen's Bench—I was at the last part of that trial as a spectator—I do not think the signature to the cheque and the signature to these letters are very much alike—I am acquainted with his English handwriting, but not so much as the other—I was not asked to attend the trial in the Queen's Bench—I merely went out of interest for Mr. Stohwasser—I am a member of the German Benevolent Society—Mr. Scheigas is the secretary of that society—Mr. Stohwasser is the president—I do not hold an official position in it—I am not related to Mr. Stohwasser by marriage, or in any way—I am in the habit of meeting him regularly in this society—we meet every Thursday at 71, Dean-street, Soho—I do not meet Mr. Stohwasser every Thursday there—I meet him frequently.

CHARLES HUTCHINGS . I am cashier in the London and County Bank—Mr. Stohwasser banks there at present—I am very well acquainted with his handwriting—(Looking at two letters) I should not pay these if they were attached to cheques—I have been acquainted with his handwriting nearly six years.

Cross-examined by MR. SR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. You only know his handwriting, do you, as writing English? A. Yes—I was subpoenaed at the trial at the Queen's Bench—I was not examined—I was there ready as a witness—the difference in these documents I conceive is this: one is written with a steel pen, and this with a quill pen—they have not the general character of Mr. Stohwasser's handwriting, this one more especially—one is written with a quill pen, and another with a steel pen; that is all the difference—this is the one which has not so much the character of his handwriting (pointing it out)—this one is only written, "Stohwasser;" it has no initial for the Christian name—he always puts a Christian name—this in decidedly different; it is written with a quill pen, which makes all the difference in signatures—I think I could pledge my oath whether a document was written with a steel pen or a quill pen—I would not venture to swear it, but I think I could if I sawthis name "Stohwasser" at the bottom of a cheque—I think I should make enquiry before I paid it—this other document (produced) I believe is Mr. Stohwasser's handwriting—that is written with a steel pen—it makes a great difference in my judgment of his wilting whether it is written with a steel pen or a quill pen—I don't say that I should pay this at once—the signature to the cheque and the signature to these letters are not written exactly alike; decidedly not; they are decidedly unlike—I am not a German scholar—I cannot read German at all—one of these letters does resemble Mr. Stohwasser's signature, but there is a marked difference in it I conceive—I should say these two are written by the same person—the second signature resembles Mr. Stohwasser's, but that is all.

MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. Were you subpoenaed at the trial to prove the 31l. cheque? A. Yes—I judge of the handwriting by the general character of it.

MOSES BENNETT . I am a short-hand writer—I was present at the trial of De Welzenstein against Stohwasser—I took notes of the evidence on the first day of the trial—I have a transcript of those notes here; I also have the original notes.

Cross-examined by MR. KENEALY. Q. Do I understand you to say that

you took every word, or merely a summary? A. Every word, question and answer, word for word.

The transcript of the evidence given by De Welzenstein was put in and read at length.

WILLIAM HIBBITT . I am a short-hand writer—I took notes of the evidence on the second day of the trial, the 17th, of Welzenstein against Stohwasser—this is a correct transcript of the evidence whioh Madame Jourdan gave on that occasion; I have the short-hand notes here—(The evidence was put in and read)—The defendant Freicke was examined after Madame Jourdan—this is the evidence he gave(The evidence given by Freicke was here put in and read.)

CHARLES COLE (Policeman, C 23.) I took Friecke, Jourdan, and Madame de Welzenstein in custody on 13th February last—Freicke, and Madame de Welzenstein were together in the front room at Miller's coffee-house Greek-street, Soho—I took Jourdan the same evening; not at the same place, but at her residence in Mount-street—I have known her for years—I did not discover the male prisoner, De Welzenstein, till Friday, 17th—I then found him at 14, Edward-street, Walworth-road—he was living there in the name of Edwards.

Cross-examined by MR. KENEALY. Q. Have you got the testimonials now? A. Yes; they are in an envelope directed to Mr. Stohwasser, 39, Conduit-street—(This being put in and read, purported to be a private certificate to the owner of the document, Edward de Welzenstein, a member of a noble family of that name, serving as first lieutenant and adjutant in the Austrian army, and was signed, Wolfe Von Wochenschwof.)

CHARLES ALBERT . I am an interpreter—I was in attendance at the Queen's Bench on this trial—before the trial came on, I saw Madame Poninsks at the Guildhall, Westminster—I did not speak to her then only to say "Good morning"—she had spoken to me at her own house some days before I had business transactions for her—on this occasion I think she sent for me—I went down and found Mr. De Welzenstein there: he asked me if I was engaged in this matter to act as interpreter, I said "Not on the part of the defendant, Mr. Stohwasser, because he did not require one," but I certainly should be there to prove the translations, and therefore I could undertake to act as interpreter for the plaintiff; nobody could object to that; and I would act as such if they would engage me—at that time. I had only heard about this case; I did not know much about it myself—they told me what they thought was necessary to understand the matter, in order to be aware of the case a little—Madame Poninska said it was a pity that Mr. Stohwasser should be exposed in this way, and one thing and another, and that he had already offered 200l. to settle the matter; but that was not enough, and if I would interfere perhaps another 100l. would settle the matter; 300l. would do it, and I should be handsomely rewarded—De Welzenstein was there at this time, and he also promised me, I think he, mentioned, the sum of 5l. if I could bring about a settlement—I don't think much more was said on that occasion, but a day or two afterwards I went for a letter, a document, or something, I don't know how it was; and then Madam Poninska asked me how the matter stood, and if I had been to Mr. Stohwasser—I said I had not been, that I did not like to mix myself up in the case one way or the other—she said "If he does not settle it, Monday morning is the last day; perhaps he thinks we have no money to go on with it, but in this he is quite mistaken, because I can show you that we have money to go on with," and she said she had just given to Mr. De Welzenstein

16l. or 16l. 10s. for a bill which he had accepted; and she showed me the bill, which I certainly swear was accepted—it was a paper for 16l. or 16l. 10s., that he had given to Mr. De Welzenstein, and that Mr. Kerschoffski would give the other half to pay counsel's fees with—at that time she was alone in her shop.

Cross-examined by MR. KENEALY. Q. Did you communicate that to Mr. Stohwasser? A. No, I did not; I never told it to him or to his lawyer until you asked me—I am very sorry to be mixed up with this as a witness—I mentioned it about the same time, that is about three or four days before the trial—when I came home I saw the managing clerk of the attorney—I asked him, "Is it true that this case is to be settled, that Mr. Stohwasser has offered 200l.?" he said, "No; why so?" and he asked me where I had heard it—I then mentioned it to him, and he sent me a subpœna—I merely mentioned it as a matter of conversation to the clerk.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. When did you communicate this evidence about the 200l. to the clerk of the attorney for the prosecution? A. About two or three days before the action was tried in the Queen's Bench—at that time I was employed by the attorney to translate the letters—I received 1s. per folio for that—it came to 120 folios, 6l.—I was employed by Mr. Edward Lewis of Marlborough-street—I was so employed at the time I went to Madame Poninska's house—I was employed by Mr. Lewis at the trial to interpret—I received the regular fee for that, a guinea per day—it lasted two or three days—I did not offer myself as interpreter to Madame Jourdan—they asked me if I would interpret for them—I said I would if I had nothing else to do—they gave me my regular fee, a guinea a day—I have not received any money from any one besides those fees and the 6l.; not for anything concerning this case; not from any body—I swear that—I have to receive money—the attorney's managing clerk knew of this before the trial in the Queen's Bench—I told him of it outside Mr. Lewis's office—I was not requested by Mr. Lewis after that to act as interpreter, because he did not want anybody on his behalf—Mr. Stohwasser speaks English—I was paid by Mr. Lewis to prove the translations, but I was called as interpreter for the plaintiff, De Welzenstein, and his wife—Madame Jourdan paid me part of what she owed me, with some embroidery—she had no money—we had a running account which has never been settled yet, and one day I wanted some money, and she gave me some embroidery—I sold it for 2l.—she never charged me with defrauding her of that money—my name is Charles Albert—I was not examined before the magistrate about this matter, only to prove the letters—I have never gone by any other name than Albert, in this country—there is a family in Rome called Schuike, a name which is so difficult to pronounce that people disfigure it, and call it one thiug and another, and so from the first day I came to London I dropped that and called myself Charles Albert—I am well known by that name—I went through the insolvent court two years ago, by the same name, Charles Albert Schuike, generally known as Charles Albert—you canuot pronounce the namo, and one does not like to have one's name disfigured—I have been in this country 12 years—the amount of my debts in the Insolvent Court was 143l.—I was called on as a witness in the other court last session—I was asked whether I would believe some gentleman, who was a prosecutor, on his oath; and I conscientiously said I would not—the person was convicted—that matter will be inquired into another day—I would not believe him on his oath—circumstances have reached the Home-office since that, to prove that the man committed perjury—(Looking at a paper) I saw that yesterday for the first time—I am not aware that notice of the evidence

I was to give was served on the defendant—I begged Mr. Hnddleston not to have me examined at all—in fact Mr. Lewis told me he would not call me, and I was very quiet about the matter.

MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. Did you tell Mr. Powell, the clerk to the attorney what Madame Poninska had told you? A. Yes; that 200l. had been offered already, but that was not enough; that they would go on; that they had money and everything—and I also told him of the bill at the same time—that I had seen the bill accepted by De Welzenstein—he served me with a subpoena on Friday or Saturday last—I know that the person whom I said I would not believe on his oath was taken into custody after he went out of the courtvand was sent into the Queen's Bench.

MR. STOHWASSER (re-examined). I believe these two letters dated 26th February, 1859, to be in the handwriting of the male prisoner De Welzenstein.

Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. Just look at that letter—(The one marked R. G.) and tell me whether that is in your handwriting? A. Yes—I wrote that letter—whether the envelope is the envelope which contained it I can't say—the envelope is also in my writing, but I don't know whether that letter was in that envelope—the letter is all mine down to the end—(This letter, being read, was addressed to Madame Dt Welzenstein, advising her to take cheap lodgings under the care of Freicke, her husband's friend)—This letter was written shortly after the execution in Manchester-street had been paid off, after the husband had gone to America—I believed at that time that Freicke was a person in whom De Welzenstein had confidence, and I wished to protect her from annoyance—I recommend her in that letter to stop away from some woman—I meant Madame Poninska. (The other two letters dated 26th February, were then read.)

COURT to CHARLES ALBERT. Q. Is this letter (produced) your writing? A. Yes, it refers to a plated tray for a tea-pot which Madame Poninska had, the face was painted, it was in a piece of embroidery—I had a tea-pot or a tea-kettle which she begged me to have cleaned for her, and I undertook to have it done for her, it was quite black from the fire in the house—I took it away and gave it to somebody to clean, and she begged me to take the opportunity to have the face painted over—I have also a letter at home which will show that she asked me for the tray, saying that she was going to give a great party on Friday—it was in the middle of last month by the post-mark on the envelope—I think I can bring the letter here, I will go now—I did not say "I will bring," the translation should be "They," and not "I; "here are many Germans in Court who will tell you that—it is "They will bring you your things; I am very sorry that that has not been done before, pray excuse this negligence."—(A paper dated 1st May, 1858, containing the history of Edward De Welzenstein's life, and signed "Edward De Welzenstein, private in this Austrian army," was here read.)

COURT to J. STOHWASSER. Q. Is it true that you at any time offered 200l. to settle the action? A. No; I never made any offer or entered into any negociation.

MR. SERGEANT PARRY on behalf of the prisoner Jourdan, called the following witnesses.

LADY STANLEY OF ALDERLEY . I have been acquainted with Madame Poninska since 1852, and have been in the habit of dealing with her constantly—she is a florist and milliner—during that time I have known a great many other persons dealing with her, and I have recommended parties to her—she has during that time borne the character of an honourable and

respectable woman—I remember hearing of Madame De Welzenstein, and in 1857, some time between May and July, I recommended her as an object of charity to Madame Jourdan to give her work, and as far as I know that was the first time that Madame Jourdan became acquainted with her—she said that she could not give her any work then—I only knew Madame De Welzenstein in that name; the Austrian Ambassador recommended her to me and I recommended her to Madame Jourdan.

Cross-examined by MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. Is Count Appongi the Austrian Minister? A. Yes—Count Kotheck is his secretary—I think it was Count Appongi who spoke to me—I was only told that she was a person who wanted work—I did not know Madame Poninska by any other name—I knew her in several places besides Mount-street, and visited her in all—I bought flowers of her—that is not all I know of her, I found her in distress and helped her—I knew she was a widow—I did not know her as a married woman.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Do you remember whether Queen-street and Gerrard-street were two of the streets where she carried on her business? A. It was a little street near Soho; I forget the name.

AMELIA EMMERSON . I have been in the employment of Madame Jourdan—I left her service at the end of the season of 1859, I have worked there every season—I was not there when she was arrested—I have always known her as Madame Poninska—I remember working there in the season of 1858—when I saw Mr. Stohwasser in Court the other day I did not remember him at first, but the more I see his face the more I know him—I am the young lady who you pointed out to him on Monday—I was here with my mother, who has been attending with me while I have been here—she is here now; I suffer from a heart complaint, and she is obliged to attend to me—I remember Mr. Stohwasser coming into the shop in May or June, 1858—I do not understand German—Madame Poninska who was standing behind the counter, addressed him in German, but she only said one word, it was "Stop"—she had been very cross all day—(Mr. Stohwasser had brought a letter the day before)—she caught hold of him and said, "Stop;" there was a lady's maid in the shop pitted with the small pox—we cannot find her out—Madame Poninska took a letter out of the till, shook it in Mr. Stohwasser's face and spoke to him in German, which I could not understand—it was in the morning when he was going to pass into the little parlour that she said, "Stop"—it was on the day that she shook the letter in his face—that was the only English word she used, and then she addressed him in German—I believe Madame De Welzenstein was in the little parlour—I have been subsequently at Mr. Stohwasser's shop in Conduit-street, I went there with Madame Jourdan, and saw Mr. Stohwasser at work in his shop—I went into the hall for the purpose of looking at him, I could not see him distinctly, and his foreman came out and caught hold of me—I afterwards saw his face through the wired blind, and have no doubt he is the man who was turned out of the shop by Madame Jourdan—excuse me Sir, but may I speak; our first hand is dead, Miss Clark, she died of consumption in December, 1859.

Cross-examined by MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. You did not recollect Mr. Stohwasser at first? A. No; Madame Poninska asked me, and when I said that he was lame, she said, "He must be the man"—she wrote to me from the country—I have not got the letter, it is down at my home at Barking in Essex—I did not remember Stohwasser at first, and that is the reason that I was taken to see him—Madame Poninska said, "Do you remember

Mr. Stohwasser?" I said, "No;" but when I saw him I said, "I remember him slightly," and when I saw him I remembered him more and more, and now I am quite convinced—when he came« the first time with the letter Madame Poninska took it from him—I did not see her point to Madame De Welzensteiu in the back parlour—Madame De Welzenstein waa not in the back parlour—I did not say that she was just now—she was the next day, the day he was turned out of the shop—I cannot recollect how long she stayed in the back parlour, there was not a quarrel between Madame De Welzenstein and Madame Poninska that I heard—I did not see that she shook the letter at Madame De Welzenstein, I heard nothing going on between them—I was sitting behind the counter at the little table; I could not hear what was going on in the parlour, it was a good distance off—I know Madame De Welzenstein was there, because I saw her come out—Miss Clark, our first hand, who is dead, was also in the shop, and Madame Poninska and a lady's maid, whose name I do not know: we cannot find her out, of course we have been been looking for her—I did not see the letter Sternfeldt brought—I never looked at it—it is more than a mouth since I was first asked to come as a witness—I was not at the Court of Queen's Bench—I never heard anything about the trial till I read it in the Telegraph—I came up from the country the same day that the trial was going on at the Queen's Bench, and I was spoken to about it the same evening—Madame Poninska asked me if I remembered him—I said, "No" at first, and said, "Is he lame, hat he grey hair?" she said "Yes;" and we remembered him then by a very curious name which I do not like to mention in Court—I was told that same night, or the day after, that I should be wanted to come to the Old Bailey as a witness, not to the Queen's Bench.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Did you hear at all any of the circumstances, or of the document being impounded by the Court? A. No; I heard nothing, they did not write in this letter, that I was to be a witness—my mother can answer you when she wrote—I cannot say exactly, it may be about a month or six weeks ago—I know I received it the same night as the Queen's Bench trial—the Queen's Bench is somewhere at Westminster—I did not go to any Court—I never was in a Court before in my life—Madame Poninska did not mention the Old Bailey, she said I should be wanted as a witness—I did not hear that the documents had been impounded and proceedings threatened—that was the morning after the trial—Mr. Stohwasser is lame and has grey hair—I afterwards went to see him in Regent-street, and recognized him—I am quite sure that the person who came into the shop and was turned out, was Mr. Stohwasser, if I was to die the next minute—I did not know the name of the. lady's-maid at the time—I have been with Madame Poninska trying to do what I could to find her out—I know Madame Poninska to be a very kind and charitable person, and very good to the poor; but it is not printed in the paper what she does.

MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. Did you know her always under the name of Poninska? A. No; I never knew her by the name of Jourdan, but I know a Mr. Jourdan, and I believe he is her husband, but I don't know—I have always believed him to be her husband ever since 1858—I went there in the beginning of May, 1858, and I think there was a little boy there—he might be seven years old—he might be six or five—he passed as her child, but I never saw her confined—it was Mr. Jourdan's child, so it must be her's.

COURT. Q. You say that on the evening of the trial you came up, do you mean when the trial was over? A. Yes; all about the Queen's Bench business was over.

SUSAN ELIZABETH EMMERSON . I am the mother of the girl who has just been examined—her father is alive—we live at Broadway, Barking, Essex—he is in practice there as a chemist—I remember a letter coming which brought my daughter up to town this year—I should think it was in March or April

Cross-examined by MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. How long has your daughter been at Madame Poninska's? A. 1858, 1859, and now at the present time—this is the beginning of the third season—she is a flower mounter, assisting Madame in her business—she comes up about April, and remains till July or August, that is the London season generally, I believe—she has come up as early as February, decidedly—the two last London seasons began in February—I do not know what month she came up this year, or how long she has been in London—I cannot charge my memory exactly, I have said as nearly as possible—I have the letter at home—I think she has been in town longer than a couple of months—I think she came up last year about April, I cannot say positively.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Are they artificial flowers? A. Yes—she has never come up and returned to me again; she always remains for the season—one of the seasons was the marriage of the Princess Royal, and begun very early—I cannot fix the date unless I saw the letter—when she has come up to act as a flower-maker, it has been with my consent and that of my husband—we should not have placed her with Madame Poninska unless we had considered her decidedly respectable.

JURY. Q. What does your daughter do the remainder of the year? A. She lives at home with me and her father, and if I have occasion to give a reference to any one as to respectability, I shall be proud to do so.

CLARA YONANSON . I have been in the habit of working at Madame Jourdan's—I remember Madame de Welzenstein coming there in November 1859 to enquire after a letter—I was not with Madame when there was a fire; I heard of it—when Madame de Welzenstein enquired for a letter, Madame Poninska went to a desk at the side of the table and searched for it—it was with a lot of papers—I saw her search for it, and she gave it to Madame de Welzenstein—I saw that it was very brown with marks on it—it looked very much like smoke—it had the appearance of this (produced)—I have known Madame Poninska twelve months—I work for her all the season—she is very kind to'the poor.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you know that there was a trial coming on? A. Yes—Madame Poninska took the letter—I do not speak German—I can understand a little when Madame talks—my attention was called to the letter—I do not know what became of it—I know Madame de Welzenstein looked at it—it was on 2d November last—I was in the parlour at work—I did not see Madame Poninska put it back in the writing-desk—Madame de Welzenstein looked at it—I cannot say whether she read it—I do not know when the fire at Madame Poninska's was; I was not there at the time—I have heard her called Madame Jourdan, but she carried on business in the name of Poninska—the child was there—I worked with Emma Emmerson—I cannot say that I have heard her called Jourdan in Emmerson's presence—I have heard her called so in the shop and in the working-room, but she was usually called Poninska—I have not heard her called Jourdan by the young people, but I have in the shop where they work.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. She was known as Madame Poninska, and that name was on the door? A. Yes—I do not know whether there has been any private marriage since the death of Jourdan—I have beard her called

Jourdan many times, but she was known in the shop by the girls as Poninska—she carries on business as a florist, and serves the Queen—I have heard her so called ever since I have been there, twelve months.

EDWARD VARDON . I was a page in the service of Madame de Welzenstein in Eccleston-terrace, Piralico—it must have been in 1658, but I am not positive—I was there about nine mouths—I do not remember what year it was when I left: or when I left—I know Mr. Stohwasser—I used to let him in when he called, which was about three or four times a month—when I have let him in, Madame de Welzenstein has been in, and he used to see her—I was there I think in October and November, 1858—I went home last Christmas twelve months, before Christmas—I am not sure whether I wai at home in October or November—Mr. Stohwasser used to walk into the back parlour without any one being there and ask whether Madame de Welzenstein was at home—I used to tell her he was there, and she used to go down to see him—they were alone together—I cannot say how long as I never used to let the gentleman out—I have not heard him go out—I have not taken refreshments to them while they were there.

Cross-examined by MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. You say this was October or November, 1858? A. No; I do not say that—I cannot mention any month in 1858 in which he called three times—Madame Jourdan brought me as a witness—she did not examine me—she told me what had happened and subpoenaed me—she found me two or three months ago at my situation, 66, Kent-street, and subpoenaed me—I do not know in what month I went to Eccleston-terrace—Freicke was there; he lived there, and took his meals with them as a friend—Madame Poninska sometimes came there—I cannot say whether she had her meals with them—she has partaken of coffee there—she did not go there so often as three or four times a month; perhaps only once a month—she never came three or four times a week—I cannot say how often I saw Mr. Stohwasser there the first month after I went to Eccleston-terrace, or how often the second month, and do not know how often I have handed him into the back parlour—I did not know De Welzenstein as Baron Schwanenfeldt to my remembrance—I never passed by the name of Ward; it is a mistake—I never heard the name of Edgar de Schwanenfeldt—I will hot swear that I never heard the name—I have heard the name of Sternfeldt; that is the gentleman who goes by the name of Welzenstein—people sometimes asked for him in the name of Sternfeldt, and the woman sometimes passed as Madame Sternfeldt—that was at the same time as Poninska was visiting—I cannot say that I have heard the name of Schwanenfeldt—I cannot tell whether they were rather badly off—I remember the furniture being removed—De Welzenstein was in the house part of the time, so was Freicke—De Welzenstein and Freicke did not help to put the furniture in On that evening—they pointed out the furniture that was to go—Madame Poninska did not come there after the furniture was gone—I do not know whether I saw her there after June 1858, between the time it came and the time it went—I did not stay a day or an hour after the furniture left, and I saw nothing more of the De Welzensteins after that—I know nothing of De Welzenstein's going to America.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. My friend asked you something about pointing out where the furniture was to go; you say De Welaenstein and Freicke were present? A. Yes; I am sure I left the same day—I had been in Chailotte-street as well as Eocleston-street, but not with these people—I am living at 66, Conduit-street, in the service of a dentist—I have been there six months—the name of Ward has been struck out of my subpoena, and Vardon added—there is no truth in the suggestion that I have appeared in a false name.

ROBERT BELL (Police Sergeant). I called on Mr. Stohwasser, to make some inquiries, at. the latter end of January, 1858—I was in Court the day before yesterday when some questions were asked—I was in plain clothes then, but was in uniform in Court—I asked Stohwasser if he would oblige me with the name and address of De Welzenstein, hs I understood that he was going by another name—he asked my business first, and what I wanted to know for—I said that I had very particular reasons for knowing the address; that I had a case in hand, which I believed the parties were connected with—I mentioned that I was a policeman, and showed my warrant card—that is Mr. Stohwasrer—he was then cutting out at his board—he said "I know nothing at all about the parties, nor do I know anything of the name"—I told him I believed that they had been endeavouring to obtaiu money as far as I was led to understand—I said nothing to him at that time about his being a referee—I said "Not only obtaining money, but they have got into their possession a quantity of silks"—he made a kind of "Pooh, pooh, pooh, that is my silk; out of my shop"—the pooh, pooh, pooh, was quite sufficient for me, and I went and watched a man named Wadfelt—I watched No. 1, Eccleston-terrace, in the latter end of January—I saw Mr. Stohwasser there about the 12th or 14th February—he remained for an hour and a half—I was watching for an entirely different purpose—I did not call on him again after that, and did not see him again till I saw him in Court on Monday—I had mentioned to him that I understood he had given references to De Welzeustein—I asked him whether he had given any reference about a house anywhere for De Welzenstein, alias Sternfeldt—he made the same remark, pooh, pooh—that was just before be told me to go out of his shop—I only called on him once.

Cross-examined by MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. Had you been watching for the De Welzensteins? A. I had been trying to find the address—I went to Stohwasser's on 24th or 25th January, 1858—I asked him if he knew anything of Welzenstein, alias Sternfeldt; and after a little, he ordered me out of his shop—I understood Serjeant Parry to inquire about De Welzenstein being a refugee, not a referee.

BENJAMIN HARS . I have been clerk of the German Church 23 years, and also a teacher of Italian and German—I have had many opportunities of seeing and copying Mr. Stohwasser's writing, and should certainly recognise these two letters as his, not only by the general character, but by oisu letter, a small "w," written in the English character, which is not usually seen in the German current hand—I never saw Madame Jourdan or De Welzenstein—they might be present in the Church, but I am rather short-sighted—they are no Mends or acquaintances.

Cross-examined by MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. Do you make the same observation with regard to both the letters? A. Yes; I do not see the least difference between them—I first saw them on Monday, I think—I did not compare them with another letter first, in Mr. Stohwasser's writing—I was sitting in the other Court, next to Mr. Schoell—as far as I can remember I did not see more than these two letters—I had not another paper in my hand: I cannot say whether the other gentleman had; I did not notice it—I have seen Mr. Stohwasser write, and recollect that peculiarity about the "w,"—he has as churchwarden kept the accounts of the German Church, and my duty has been to copy them—he has been so many years—I do not know anythiug about this German society, except that there is such a society—I never heard that it is subscribed to by the Duke of Cambridge, and Prince Edward of Saxe Weimar.

COURT. Q. Look at the signature to that cheque, do you believe it to be his writing? A. Yes; the "Stohwasser" evidently is, but the "J" I cannot say—the "Stohwasser" is like his writing, but it is rather stiff; the German writing is rather angular, and this is remarkably so—I should not like to take my oath that it is his writing, but I should think it is his, it resembles it—the "J" certainly does not resemble the signature to these letters at all, but I think the general character of the writing resembles—excepting the first initial: the "u" is exactly the same.

CHARLES SCHOELL . I am the clergyman of the German chapel, and am acquainted with Mr. Stohwasser's writing—the writing of these two letters resembles his, but I cannot give a positive answer—I am not so well acquainted with his writing as to be able to say I am sure of it, but I believe it resembles it—if I remember right, his usual writing is not so steady as this—this is better written though it is the same hand—I have not I believe more than six letters in German of his, so I cannot say—I think he signed his name in this way, and with such a "w."

Cross-examined by MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. Were you here on Monday? A. Yes; I cannot recollect whether Mr. Hars was sitting next me when I looked at the letters; I think another gentleman was there—I was shown a letter of Mr. Stohwasser's to compare with these two—I did not show it to Mr. Hars—I do not think he was there—I think it was Mr. Schneider—I think I got it from Mr. Lewis, but I cannot remember—Mr. Schneider is here—I looked at both the letters—allow me to look at them. I have not formed an opinion of it before.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. You have only four or five letters from Mr. Stohwasser? A. I think six in German—the letter I received the other day, was one from Mr. Stohwasser, the one which I had in my pocket—I have not got it now.

COURT. Q. Look at this cheque; are you able to form any opinion as to that signature? A. I think it is the same writing, the same as the signature of the letters—I am not able to say more about that than I am about the others.

CHARLES SCHNEIDER . I am a teacher of the German language—I have never seen Mr. Stohwasser's German writing till Monday, but I know his English writing—his signature in English I have seen very often—this resembles his signature very much—I think his signature is like this—I have seen it very often—the character is very like—if nothing but the signature of this letter was shown to me, I should say it was Mr. Stohwasser's—I have heard that he has been churchwarden very often in the church where I am—I never saw any of the defendants in my life, as far as I can recollect.

Cross-examined by MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. Take that cheque in your hand; do you see the signature to it? A. Yes; I think it is very like Mr. Stohwasser's signature—if the cheque was shown to me and I was asked, "Do you know a person who writes like that?" the only person I could imagine it to be is Mr. Stohwasser—the signature to the cheques and to the letters are perhaps not quite alike—I was not allowed to compare them—(Comparing them), the J is very like, but the S is not like in one, and the other is a little different—the "J's" are nearly alike, the "S" in one letter is like this, and the other letter is a little different—the "a" in the cheque is not distinctly written at all, the "a" in the letter is clearly written—I do not mean to say that they are alike—you could recognize that this "a" is scarcely a letter.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Is ne in German and one in English? A. No; both are in English. I never saw his signature in German—I think the "w" in both these three signatures is written by the same hand—they are not the German current hand.

GEORGE HERNY LEWIS . I am the attorney for Madame Jourdan—this paper (produced) was left at my office, in my absence, with the clerk—it did not come with any letter, but with another notice from the prosecutor which is there—(Read): "Charles Albert, I am an interpreter—I know Madame Poninska—I was in attendance at the Court of Queen's Bench several times—Madame Poninska begged me to use my influence with Mr. Stohwasser, and beg him to compromise the action; she also said she had lent Mr. Freicke 16l. 10s. towards carrying on the action."

Cross-examined by MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. You were not attorney for the De Welzensteins at the trial? A. No; I was first retained for Madame Jourdan I think the same night she was apprehended—I should think that was more than a fortnight after the trial—a friend of her's, a tradesman in Burlington-arcade, called on me the same evening that she was apprehended, that she might have the benefit of my professional assistance.

COURT to MR. STOHWASSER. Q. You stated before the Magistrate that this letter did not resemble your writing? A. I may have made that answer, but the question was put to me so often and in such different forms, that the answer may have been similar to that, but I concluded it was not my writing—the question was put three, four, or six times—several letters in it resemble mine, but not the whole of it—in September, 1858, Madame Jourdan called at my shop, and asked me if I would recommend a person who made a portrait for me, as she should like to have her child taken—it was after the fire which I have ascertained was on 17th July—I recommended Mr. Becker.

COURT to ERNEST BECKER. Q. Did Mr. Stohwasser have a communication with you on this subject. A. Yes; I do not know the date, but it was not very long before the time that Madame Poninska entered her new house—I saw her in Duke street, and went once to her—I saw her no more; I did not see her in Mount-street—I did not know the date of the fire, but it must have been a considerable time after the fire—I know that because she told me she was entering her new house—that I am very clear about—I did not paint the picture, Madame Poninska made an appointment and did not keep it—I have no means of fixing the date, except that it was just before she went into her new house.

JOURDAN received a good character.



Fourth Jury.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-398
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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398. WILLIAM HEPWORTH (42) and WILLIAM JACKSON (43) Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Henry Roberts, and stealing therein 15 gold watches, and other articles, value 405l. his property, both having been before convicted—to which they pleaded

GUILTY .— Four Years Penal Servitude.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-399
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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399. JANE THOMAS (27) Stealing a pencil case, a handkerchief, and 10s. in money, the property of James Brown from his person.

JAMES BROWN . I live at No. 2, Raydon-street, Camden-town, and am a

carpenter—I was on Tower-hill at a public-house on the night 24th April—I had 16s. when I went there, a pencil case, and a pocket-handkerchief—my pencil case was in my right-hand waistcoat pocket, and the money was in my left-hand trowsers' pocket—I got the worse for liquor there—I had had a little to drink when I went in—I was perfectly aware what I was doing—I saw the prisoner there, and found her hands in my pocket—I did not miss anything then for a minute or two—I told her to stop that, and she took her hands out—I discovered afterwards that I had lost my money—I did not discover I had lost my pencil case and handkerchief till after I got to the station—I did not fall asleep at all—on missing my money I gave her into custody to William Nye—this is my pencil case, (produced) I know it by the point being gone; it exactly resembles the one that I lost.

WILLIAM NYE (City-policeman, 569). The prisoner was given into my custody—I took her to the station, and gave her in charge of the female searcher. I received the pencil-case and handkerchief from the searcher.

ELIZABETH COSIER . The prisoner was brought to the station—I took her into a room to search her, and found this pencil case in her stocking, and this pocket handkerchief (produced) in her pocket; she said it was her young man's pencil case, and her own pocket handkerchief.

Prisoner's Defence. I went on Tower-hill, and met this man; he was very tipsy and asked me to have a drop of gin; we went into a public-house; we stayed there about three hours, and then came out; we walked on to another public-bouse, and I said, "Come in here and have a quartern of gin;" he put his hand in his pocket and said he had no money to pay for it; I said I would pay for it; and he then said, "I must give you in charge;" he then said, "Come along with me," and took me up to the police-station; the pencil case be gave to a soldier to write bis address, and he then gave it to he then gave me in charge.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-400
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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400. JOHN ROBART (27) Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of John Black, and stealing 1 shilling and sixpence, his monies.

The prisoner being a foreigner the evidence was interpreted to him.

SARAH BLACK . I am the wife of John Black, of Billiter-street—I went out on 1st May, left my door securely locked, and took the key with me; I had it in my hand when I returned—I was gone about ten minutes or a quarter of an hour, the door of my room was wide open when I returned, and the prisoner coming out—I would not let him pass me, he wanted to escape, and he was speaking something that I did not understand—I scuffled with him down the stairs and called "Thief"—a young man named John Stainton who was in the house assisted me—when a policeman came, I went into my room—I missed 1s. 6d. off my drawers by the side of a little tea-caddy—the 6d. was rather plain on the wreath side—this is it (produced).

Prisoner. Q. (Through the Interpreter) Did you see me in your room? A. I saw you come out, placing something in your pocket; you had a little pocket-book in your hand—I cannot swear to the 1s.

JOHN STAINTON . I was in this house where the last witness lodges on 1st May last, and heard a cry of "Stop thief"—I went out, and saw the prisoner escaping down the landing—he tried to get away, when he was on the landing he was rather too quick for me, but in running down the stairs he slipped and fell—I ran down after him, caught him, and gave him in charge—I kept him till the policeman came.

Prisoner. Q. Were you alone, or were there five or six more who stopped me? A. I stopped you by myself.

HENRY KELLOWAY (City-policeman, 527). I was called to No. 12, Billiter-street, and took the prisoner into custody—I examined the door, there were marks of a chisel on the top of the door—I also examined the I street door—this key (produced) unlocks the door of the housekeeper's department—the door of Mrs. Black's room was wrenched open at the top—I took the prisoner to the station; searched him, and found on him a chisel corresponding with the marks on the door, 1l. 8s. 9d. in money, in a purse, 1s. 6d. in his left-hand waistcoat pocket loose, a white cotton handkerchief marked "MD," a red silk handkerchief, a pocket-book, a silver watch and gold chain, and a bunch of 12 keys, 4 street-door keys.

Prisoner's Defence. I don't think that the charge that has been brought against me is substantiated—I am a foreigner and nobody can say anything against my character; I did not give my right name, in order not to hurt the feelings of my family; my name is Eugene Laurant, from Brussels; I have been working three months in Paris, and nobody ever had anything to say against me; the chisel I found in the street, and the keys I had in my pocket—I am not guilty of the charge.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

Joseph Cowley, and John Verry, identified the watch and ring found on tht prisoner, as stolen from them.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-401
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty

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401. WILLIAM SUTCLIFFE (27) and HENRY SMITH (23) Stealing 1 set of harness, value 5l. of Samuel Brodney — also 1 sack, of Samuel Pritchett , to both which they

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months each.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-402
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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402. ROBERT WILLIAMS (17) Stealing money to the amount of 8l. of John Holmes, his master, to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-403
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty

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403. THOMAS CALLINGHAM (22) Stealing 2 yards of velvet, 2 1/4 yards of velvet, and 6 yards of velvet, of Lazarus, Lee, and another, his masters— also 1 yard of velvet, 1 1/2 yards of velvet, and 3 yards of velvet, of his said masters, to both which he

PLEADED GUILTY.—He received an excellent character—Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutors. Confined Twelw Months.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-404
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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404. WILLIAM GLYNN (26) Stealing 1 watch, value 5l. of William Appleyard, from his person to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

NEW COURT.—Monday, May 7th, 1860.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Fourth Jury.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-405
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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405. JOHN CHARLES BUBBERS , Embezzling 2s. 8d. 3s. and 1s. 3d. of William Bird, his master.

MR. LILLEY conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS ANDERTON HOWDEN . I am an engineer and gas-fitter, of Long Alley, Finsbury—on Saturday, 10th March, between three and four in the

afternoon, I went to Mr. Bird's warehouse in Basinghatl-fttreet, and saw the prisoner in the warehouse—he showed me 4 brass pendant swivels—I bought them, and paid him 2s. 8d. for them over the counter—he did not give me any receipt.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Had you known the prisoner before? A. No; that was the first time I ever saw him.

JOSEPH WALDEN . I live at Bennett's-hill, Doctors' Commons—I am porter to Mr. Bird, the prosecutor—the prisoner was his shopman—on Wednesday, 14th March, between 9 and 10 in the morning, I saw a customer come into the warehouse—I don't know him—I never saw him before—the prisoner served him with 3lbs. of brass wire; I saw the ous-tomer pay him 3s.—the prisoner put them in his pocket—on the morning of the 15th, I saw another customer come in who I had never seen before, but I have seen him since—he purchased 1 lb. of copper wire—I saw him pay for it—I cannot say whether he paid 1s. 3 1/2 d. or 1s. 4 1/2d.—I saw the prisoner receive it and put it in his pocket.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you standing close to him? A. Yes—thero was the distance of the counter between us—I could see him, and he could see me—I have known him ever since I have been there, about seven months—he was in the habit of putting the money on the desk, or in the till—I know he was in the habit of paying away money for booking and so on—I have seen him do that—most of our business is wholesale.

MR. LILLEY. Q. When he made these small payments, where did he take the money from? A. Out of his pocket, and sometimes from the till—I have seen him do that—when he received small payments on account of Mr. Bird, I have seen him put the money in his pocket—when he made small payments he took the money to make them put of the till.

COURT. Q. Why did you say he took it from his pocket? A. I have seen him take it from his pocket, and from the til.

JAMES HARMER . I am an ironmonger, and live in the Kent-road—on Thursday, 15th March, I went to Mr. Bird's, in Basinghall-etreet—the prisoner served me—I bought some copper wire—I paid either 1s. 3 1/2 d. or 1s. 4 1/2 d.—the prisoner received the money—I did not observe what he did with it.

WILLIAM BROWN BIRD . I am the prosecutor's son, and live in Cambridge-road, Hackney—I was sixteen years old last January—I keep the books in my father's establishment, and am cashier—I was so on the 14th and 15th of March—the prisoner was in my father's employ—he did not pay me 2s. 8d. as received from Mr. Howden for brass pendants—I have the book here—it was the prisoner's duty before I went there to enter in this book any sums he might receive—here is no entry of that sum—supposing I were there, I should be behind the counter to enter goods and take money—in my absence he would receive the money—there is no sum of 2s. 8d. entered on 10th March, or of 3s. for three pound of brass wire on the 14th, nor 1s. 3 1/2 d., or 1s. 4 1/2d. for one pound of copper wire on the 15th—the money taken in my absence should be put on the desk and accounted for to me on my return—the prisoner has not accounted for either of these sums.

Cross-examined. Q. You never asked him about these? A. I have sometimes asked him in the morning when I went, whether any body had bought anything, and sometimes he said there had, and he gave me the money; but on the Wednesday morning I asked him, and he said there had been no one—I got there about 10 o'clock—when the prisoner was not at the counter he was generally looking after orders—he was with my father before I went there—the porter communicated this to me some time before

March—it was the porter's duty to keep in the shop if he were not out delivering goods.

JOSEPH WALDEN (re-examined.) At the time he was serving these two customer's my master's son was out.

WILLIAM BIRD . I am a metal warehouseman, carrying on business at 37, Basinghall-street—the prisoner was in my employ as warehouseman and shopman—it was his duty to sell goods in the warehouse to customers, and having received the money, to enter in this waste book the particulars aud the amount—supposing my son were absent, he put the money on the desk, or in the till, and paid it to him when he came home—it was not usual, nor would it have received my sanction, for him to have put it in his pocket—I have referred to this book; I don't find any entry of the 2s. 8d. for the swivels, or the 3s. for the copper wire—the prisoner has not paid me any of these sums—the officer produced to me some papers, and a memorandum book.

Cross-examined. I believe you had a very high character with him? A. I had a character—he was with me about four years—a great deal of money has passed through his hands; not to a very large amount—I have always found him correct—I did not ask him to come into my private room, and ask him about these sums.

GEORGE RUSSELL (City-policeman.) On the afternoon of 15th March I went to Mr. Bird's warehouse—I saw the prisoner—I told him I was a detective officer, and was going to ask him a few questions, and he might do just as he pleased about answering them—I asked him if he had accounted to his master for all the money he had taken on Saturday afternoon—he hesitated, and then said, "I believe I have"—I said, "There is 2s. 8d. to be accounted for, that you had from Mr. Howden; have you accounted for thatf he said he and the porter had spent that between them—I said, "There was 2s. 1d. yesterday morning"—he said, "Me and the porter divided that between us"—he said the porter had said, "If I were you Charles, I would take that money and divide it between us"—Mr. Bird gave him in custody, and I took him to the station—I found nothing that bears on this case, but some memorandum books and other things, which Mr. Bird identified as his.

COURT to JOSEPH WALDEN. Q. Have you heard what Mr. Russell has said of the conversation he had with the prisoner? A. Yes—I did not say to the prisoner, "If I were you Charles, I would take that money and divide it between us"—I never said anything of that kind—when I saw this money taken by him and put in his pocket I did not say anything at all—I took a parcel for him, and he gave me a pint of beer—he said if I did not do what he wished, he would turn me off the next morning—he would give me too heavy a load, or send me at an inconvenient time—I said I could not do it—he said I should do it—I have been there seven months—I had not been there two months before he began doing this—he was ft kind of master over me, more so than Mr. Bird was, and more so than I liked.

JURY. Q. Did you often look in the books? A. I have looked to see if there was anything that I had to get ready or to do.

The prisoner received a good character. NOT GUILTY .

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-406
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

406. LAWRENCE WITHERINGTON (20) Embezzling the sum of 6l. 2s. of James John Freeman, his master.

MR. METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM RICHARD DODSON . I am a cheesemonger of Old Bethnal-green-road—I was a customer of Mr. Freeman's—the prisoner was in his service and brought me goods—the last sum I paid him was 3l. 1s., on 20th

February—I took this receipt from him, he made out the bill in my presence and signed it.

Cross-examined by MR. LEWIS. Q. Was it for rabbits? A. Yes; I know that the prosecutor's shop is now open, it has been closed—I have not ascertained that the shop was closed at the time the rabbits were delivered.

HENRY REED . I am a cheesemonger—I was a customer of Mr. Freeman—I knew the prisoner as his servant—on 18th February I paid him 3l. 1s.—I had a receipt for it which I produced at the police-court, bnt it is mislaid—I paid the prisoner at the same time that he left the rabbits.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you pay him that money as servant to Mr. Freeman? A. Yes; I cannot say whether I knew that the shop was closed at the time I paid him—I know it was closed about that time.

JAMES JOHN FREEMAN . I am a provision merchant, and live at 67, Hackney-road—I am now in the Insolvent Court—the prisoner was in my employ up to 18th February—on that day I sent him out with a case and a half of rabbits, worth altogether about 15l.—what he had for Mr. Reed were worth 3l. 1s., and what he had for Mr. Dodson was the same amount—he was to receive the money from Mr. Reed And Mr. Dodson, and to account for it the same day, or as this was on Saturday, on the following Monday—it was always his duty to account the same night or the following morning, and he had done mo up to the 18th—I had no notion that he was going to leave me: certainly not—I heard from my foreman that he returned, and the foreman asked him to give him the money, and he said he should not—he has never accounted to me for either of these sums—my shop was closed on the 18th, and had been closed about a fortnight, but the business was going on out of doors all the same—the prisoner knew that I was in difficulties.

Cross-examined. Q. Where do you reside? A. I must reside anywhere at present—I came this morning from Hackney-road—I have been out from Hicks' hotel about a week—the amount of my debts is about 800l.; it was about 1,100l. before I settled—I cannot say what was the amount of my debts twelve months ago—they might be 900l.—I did not pay them; a friend did—I don't think he paid 20s. in the pound; I think he paid about is.—I have since paid him that money—my debts were not compromised—my friend paid 4s. in the pound, and I paid him back—if a person thinks proper to pay another person's debts, I don't call that compromising—there was a suit out against me by Mr. Donald, in January, this year—the amount of the debt was 35l.—I did not pay it—I should think the amount of stock on my premises was about 50l. or 60l.—it has been sold, and paid my creditors—that stock was on my premises at the time of that judgment—I removed 25l. for the benefit of my other creditors—it was not for the purpose of escaping Donald's judgment; it was not to cheat Donald's judgment—I don't call that cheating; it was for the benefit of all—Donald did not get what was taken away—my shop was not closed then; it was closed the next day after I removed the 25l.—the Sheriff came in; I saw the Sheriff certainly—I was arrested about three weeks or a month afterwards at 67, Hackney-road—I was not living there after the shop was closed; I could not, because Mr. Donald cleared everything away—I slept there one or two nights afterwards—I have not resided there regularly Bince, but casually—I was not residing there; I was residing at different places—I was residing at the West-end some time—I was going about to keep out of the way—the prisoner was in my service as a carman, or to do anything I had to do—I sent a clerk that was with me down to the wharf

to get those rabbits—I sent the prisoner out on this rabbit trade—the next time I saw him was when I gave him in charge on 23d February—I found him at his lodgings—I had been watching for him myself in the day and night too—I found him at his owu house—I said to him, "Witherington, where is the money for the rabbits?"—he said that he had spent it—it was his duty to pay it me on the day he received it, or on Monday morning—I do not mean to say that I went to his house between the 18th and the 23d; I sent a dozen times—I had been at the shop during the days between the 18th and the 22d—I had been there the whole of the days—I only walked a few yards off—I was not away more than a quarter of an hour or half an hour I may say—it was during that half-hour that I was watching for the prisoner—I walked up and down in front of the house—I went to inquire where he was to be found—I did not go to his house, I was watching in Hackney-road—there were three of us watching—I might have waited from 10 till 12 at night—I went to his house on the 22d, and could not find him—I left my name, certainly—when I went on the 23d I found him there—I said to him, "Witherington, where is the money for the rabbits?"—he said, "I have spent it; I treated one and another, and I have lost the other"—he did not say that he had been constantly looking for me at the Sun coffee-bouse—I have been there sometimes; during the time I was keeping away from my creditors I was in the habit of going to the Sun—about a quarter of an hour after I had the conversation with the prisoner about the money being spent, I gave him in custody—Mr. Miller, my clerk, was present during the conversation—I did not take him to the police-court—he is here, but I have not brought him as a witness—I did not produce him as a witness at the police-court, and I have not produced him as a witness here now—I did not think the conversation about spending the money was material—after this charge of embezzlement I made another charge against the prisoner of stealing a horse—there is an indictment against him for stealing that—that horse went down to Mrs. Baker's to livery; the prisoner took it at my request—he did not fetch it at my request; certainly not—that was at the time of Donald's judgment—the prisoner also took two carts and another horse—he did not sell them for me; Mr. Aldridge did, and the prisoner took them to Mr. Aldridge's—I gave no authority for that horse to be sold—I did not tell the prisoner to take that—horse and get as much as he could for it—he did not have the money arising from the other sale; I had it—the money was originally paid into my hands—the first horse was entered in my own name; the second was not entered in my name, certainly not to my knowledge, nor by my instruction—I did not tell the prisoner to have that horse bought in for me—it was not bought in for me—when the first lot was put in in my same, I did not feel angry with the prisoner and ask him why he did it.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Had you sent this horse to Mrs. Baker's? A. Yes; and he took it and sold it without my authority—he has never accounted to me for the money—this horse was not taken at the same time as the other; at quite a different time—I never, before these matters occurred, compromised with my creditors; all I have been stating was in connexion with my present difficulties—I removed my goods in order to let the other creditors have an equal claim.

COURT. Q. The Sheriff found some of your stock there? A. Yes—the rest I removed at the request of my creditors at a meeting of my creditors—I scheduled my property.

MR. LEWIS. Q. Did you schedule your property after you got into

difficulties? A. Yes—I can't say that I said I would rather have given 50l. than have prosecuted if I had known the prisoner was going to cross-examine on these matters—I might have said I was sorry for it,

WILLIAM LEATHER (Policeman N 168.) The prosecutor gave the prisoner into my custody on 23d February—he charged him with embezzling 6l.—the prisoner said, "That is right."

Cross-examined. Q. You took him on another charge of stealing a horset? A. Yes; he said he had sold the horse to a dealer for 5l.—that was all that passed.

THOMAS LUCAS MILLER . I was clerk to the prosecutor at the time the prisoner was in his service—I heard my master ask the prisoner, on 23d February, what he had done with the money—he said he had been going about and spending a little with one and a little with another, and the rest he had lost—he asked him what had become of the horse, and he said he had sold it.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you aware of the removal of some of these goods from your master's premises? A. I was—I am not aware that some of them were removed to my father's house.

The prisoner received a good character.

GUILTY Confined Four Months

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-407
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

407. JOHN REEVES (20) , Feloniously assaulting Henry Towns, with intent to steal his watch.

MR. COOPER conducted Prosecution.

HENRY TOWNS . I am an oil and colourman, of White Conduit-street, Pentonville—on 18th March, about 4 o'clock in the afternoon, I was going along South Conduit-street, Bethnal-green, arm in arm with my wife—I saw the prisoner and two others coming towards me; I made way for them to pass—on their coming up, one of the prisoner's companions made a blow at my head, which was stayed by the rim of my hat, and the prisoner made a grasp at my watch, which was in my waistcoat pocket—he did not get it; he got hold of my waistcoat, and I felt a sharp tug at my pocket—on that I turned round and there was my brother-in-law—he tried to secure the prisoner, and we were surrounded by a great number of men and boys—the others escaped—the policeman came up and I went into the next street and pointed out the prisoner—the moment I charged him he knocked the officer down, and either he or his companions knocked me down—a large crowd was collected—I was knocked down and lost my breath.

Cross-examined by MR. LEWIS. Q. How many persons were there before the prisoner made an attempt at your watch? A. I can't say, but in about two minutes I dare say there were a hundred—before he made the grasp there were very few—he and his companions made a most outrageous assault on me, my brother-in-law, and my wife—the next assault was when I pointed him out to the officer—I don't know that the prisoner struck me the first time—I was in a crowd—the second time he struck me when I wanted to give him in charge to the policeman—there the prisoner or his companions knocked me down—at the time I received the blow on my hat the prisoner was walking with his companions three abreast—that was the only blow I had before the second assault—while I was on the ground I was struck; I don't know where the blows came from.


7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-408
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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408. JOHN REEVES , was again indicted for assaulting George Tuck, with intent to resist and prevent his lawful apprehension.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution

GEORGE TUCK (Policeman, H 110). I ran on that occasion to assist Mackey—when I got there he was in a very bad state—he was down, and the prisoner was underneath him, and one or two of his companions were on him—I knocked them off and they fell on me, and Mackey got up—the prisoner got up and kicked me in the groin—he tried to kick me again, and said he would run a knife through me if he had one—I struck him, and he gave me another knock on the nose—he was secured at last—his companions beat me all the way to the station—I suffer very much from it, and I sometimes have to go to a doctor—it bruised me very much—I was not ruptured, but I feel it—when the weather changes I can hardly walk—I was off duty I think fifteen or sixteen days.

Cross-examined. Q. Did the prisoner strike you before you took hold of him? A. No—I caught hold of him as well as I could—there was a crowd there—the crowd cried out "Shame," and threw stones at me—I took my staff out—I gave the prisoner one stroke, and I should have given him more if I had not been stopped—I hit him as hard as I could—he fell down, but not after ray blow—my blow did not knock him down—he was never under me, he was down on the pavement—he fell down himself; it was not from excitement—he did not fall after I hit him—he struck me before I struck him—I had hold of him with his face towards me—there were two or three hundred persons surrounding me—I will undertake to say that it was the prisoner who struck me, because I caught hold of his throat and threw him down—I did not hold him at arms' length; I held him as close as I could—he stood close to me and gave me a kick in the groin—I saw him when he struck me; I saw his foot drawing back—I did not catch his foot before it got down again to the pavement—I caught his leg before that had got down—I threw him down as soon as ever he kicked me.

MR. COOPER. Q. Which foot was it? A. I have almost forgotten—I know it was one.

JOHN MACKEY (Policeman, K 414). Mr. Towns was in the street, and a large number of people about him—they were making their way into High-street—I took the prisoner by the arm; he had blood on his face—I took him a short distance and he struck me in the face, and said, "You b—r, let me go," and he called to his mates—one of them struck me with a stone and I fell—I took out my staff and struck him—I was much hurt, and was laid up for a fortnight.

Cross-examined. Q. He struck you on the nose, and you struck him on the head with your staff? A. Yes; he struck me several times—I was laid up from the stroke of the stone—the prisoner did not throw stones, but this stone (produced) was in his pocket—he made no attempt to throw this stone—he said to his mates, "Murder the b—r; don't let me be taken!"—his face was bloody; that was not because he hit me on the nose—he afterwards got my thumb in his mouth and nearly bit it off—that was in coming to the station, just in the road—I was reaching to make a grab at him, and he seized my thumb in his mouth—it was not very much injured.

THOMAS HAYES . I was returning from Church and went by where the policemen had got the prisoner—I saw them bleeding and wounded, and not able to take the prisoner, and I being a constable took out my staff and told them I would assist them—the prisouer was taken a considerable way; he kicked aud fought in a very desperate manner—We carried him about half-way to the station, and then he said he would not go any further—he swore dreadfully, and got Mackey's thumb in his mouth, and bit it violently—I struck him on the head with my staff—a constable took him by the nose

and got the thumb from his mouth—I went to the station and got three more officers—there were 7 in all.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you see the prisoner struck on the head? A. I struck him, and said "Let go the man's thumb, don't act in that brutish manner!"—I took hold of the back of the collar of his coat, and had to stand off as far as I could—one policeman had one leg, and the other the other. GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.

NEW COURT.—Tuesday, May 8th, 1860.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Fifth Jury.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-409
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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409. ROBERT EDWARDS (25) , feloniously uttering counterfeit coin; to which he PLEADED GUILTY .— Four Years' Penal Servitude.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-410
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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410. ALFRED POULTENY (14) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin; to which he PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-411
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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411. EMILY RILEY (18), Was indicted for a like offence; to which she PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-412
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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412. HENRY PEGLER (24) , Stealing 1 purse, 1 pencil-case, 1 pair of stockings, and 1 watch; the property of Poulet George Henry Somerset, his master. MR. LEWIS conducted the Prosecution.

COLONEL POULET GEORGE HENRY SOMMERSET . I live at 32, Piccadilly—the prisoner was my valet and had been so about two years—I went to Gibraltar on 31st October last—on the day before I went I had left my purse on the mantelpiece in the drawing-room—I sent the prisoner to look for it, and he came down and said he could not find it—I left in the morning to go to Gibraltar, and I desired the housekeeper to send it to me when it was found—I saw no more of it till it was shown to me by a policeman after the prisoner was taken—this is it; here is a pencil-case in it which is mine—there are no cards here now—this pair of stockings are mine; they are marked with my initials—I believe my wife had a silver watch—I never gave these things to tie prisoner; I may have given him other things.

COURT. Q. How recently before had you seen the purse? A. The night before.

Cross-examined by MR. SHARPE. Q. What time was it you missed this? A. On 30th October I had put this purse on the mantelpiece in the drawing-room—there was a pencil-case in it, two or three trifles, some cards, but no money to any amount—I had left it there certainly not more than a quarter of an hour before—this is my mother's house—I think no one else had gone in the room—I had only just left the room—there are five or six servants in the house—the room was not locked—I saw these things again when the policeman called on me on my return from abroad, I think, sometime in March—the purse was shown to me, and the pencil-case, a gold eye-glaas belonging to my mother, and these stockings—the prisoner had charge of them—where he put them I don't know—I teally cannot say how long before I had seen these stockings; I might not have seen them for some time.

BARBARA AUGUSTA NONA SOMERSET . I am the wife of the last witness—

I had a silver watch in a drawer in my house which was always kept locked—the keys were generally kept locked up, but they were sometimes hanging to another drawer in the room—this is my brother's watch; there is a crest on it—I have no doubt about it—I never found that the lock had been broken or tampered with—I did not miss the watch—I had seen it in the courae of the summer—the prisoner would have access to the drawing room where this was—this eye-glass belongs to Lady Mary Somerset, my mother-in-law.

THOMAS HENRY BEAZELY (Policeman, V. 256) I stopped the prisoner on 18th March about 3 o'clock in the morning—I took him to the station—he was searched, and this silver watch was found on him with the crest partly erased, and a pocket-book, this gold pencil, and this purse, and this gold eye-glass—these stockings were found at his mother's house—I asked him to account for these; herefused to answer, and afterwards he said they werehis own.

GUILTY .—Colonel Somerset stated that during the time the prisoner was with him, he had missed money and other property, and had discharged other servants in consequence, whom he now believed to be perfectly honest.

Six Years' Penal Servitude.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-413
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Not Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

413. HENRY MASON (24), and MARGARET SAWYER (27) , Unlawfully having in their possession a mould for making counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. ELLIS and COOKE conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES BRANNAN . I am an officer in the employ of the Home Office—on Friday evening, 6th April, I went with some other constables to the Penton Arms, Pentonville-road, and found the prisoner Mason with three or four others—I said to him, "Well, Harry, I have received instructions from the authorities of the Mint, to look after you, as being dealing largely in counterfeit coin"—he made no reply, and I put my hand in his right breast coat pocket and took out this black bag (produced) in which was another small bag, in which were five packets, sealed up as they now appear, containing thirty-one florins and twenty-three shillings wrapped in separate papers—I took a tobacco box from him, which contained one florin and three shillings, they are all here—when I pulled them out I showed them to him and said, "What do you call these?"—he said, "I have not had them long, Mr. Brannan—on that he was taken in custody by Inspector Briant and other officers—we took him outside and asked him where he lived—he said he had no fixed residence—I told him I would find one—I had had him some time under observation both there and elsewhere—he said, "I have not been selling at Dimeter's"—that is a beer shop just by—a crowd collected aud one officer was knocked down—we were very glad to put the prisoner into a cab—I was not in the cab with him, I was outside—there were hundreds of persons collected—the cab proceeded to No. 2, Pembroke-street, Caledonian-road—I found Sawyer there in the back-room on the second floor—I said to her, "Does not Harry Mason live here?"—she made no reply—I said, "I mean Long Harry"—Bhe said he was out, and had been out ever since 5 o'clock—it was then about half-past 9 o'clock—I told her I knew he was not at home for I had had him in custody for passing counterfeit coin, and I came there to see for the moulds—she said she knew nothing about them—I called to one of the officers to bring Mason up stairs, and when he got in the room he said, "We have not been here long"—I desired one of the officers to take Sawyer in custody, and I proceeded to search the room, and on the top of the cupboard I found this plaster of Paris mould having the impression of a florin; and in the cupboard I found two galvanic

batteries with wire—this jar containing acid, two battery jars, two bottles with acid, a file, with some white metal in the teeth, two pieces of glass, one bearing the impression of a shilling, two tooth brushes, a pair of scissors and a tin box with black composition; these are all articles used for the manufacture of coin—these things were produced from the cupboard in the presence of the two persons, and while taking them out, Mason said, "You have found enough on me and here, Mr. Brannan, and I hope you will not take the old woman"—Sawyer said the things that I placed on the table had not been there above two or three days-the prisoners were taken away in custody, and I took possession of these articles—the next morning, Mason said to me, "Mr. Brannan, if I take all upon myself here, do you think that they will let my mistress go or will they send her down below?"—he said, "I know I have been selling a long time, but I have not had the boys selling for me"—I had alluded to the boys the night before—I said, "I shall give neither advice nor opinion, do as you please; I have done my part in putting a stop to your mischievous practices"—he said the woman was innocent of having anything to do in the matter.

Mason. Q. You found me in three respectable men's company on Good Friday evening? A. I regret to say that I did not—I did not remark that I knew one was a gentleman's servant—I had seen you before, but I waited till I found it on you, at the sacrifice of many weeks and months; when you had those two boys with you—when I got to Sawyer's residence I asked if you were there—I did say in the depositions that the female hesitated—I did not ask her ifevery thing in the place belonged to her—on my second search I only found this saucer—I did not find a likeness in the female's clothes-box—I can't swear that you put those things in the room—I asked the landlady and made every inquiry about you—the said she had seen you in the house two or three times—I did say that I found on you a good florin that I thought had been the pattern, but I applied it to my teeth and found it was bad—I did not say that I bad got you to rights, and I would do all I could to get you two years—never a word of that kind escaped my lips—I did not know that you had been living with the prostitute that you walked Pentonville-hill with.

Sawyer. Q. What did I say? A. You said you had not been there above ten days or a fortnight, and were innocent of all this: that he had been there two or three times; that you were willing to stay with him, and would endeavour to support him if he would stay with you; but he had been very cruel to you, and he was away from you sometimes for eighteen months.

ARTHUR ELLIOTT (Policeman, G 104). I went with the last witness—I searched Mason at the Penton Arms; I found on him 10s. 4 1/2 d., all good—I went to the room in Pembroke-street—I found under the table two bags; one containing plaster of Paris moulds for making florins, the other containing two iron spoons with metal in them; three files with metal in their teeth; they had been recently used; a pair of pliers, a piece of copper wire; one iron holder for holding the moulds at the time the metal is poured in; three gets; part of a counterfeit florin, and two pieces of white metal.

Mason. Q. Were you knocked down? A. Yes; that was in going from the Penton Arms—I should say there were over 500 people.

BENJAMIN BRIANT (Police Inspector). I assisted in taking Mason in custody at the Penton Arms—we met with great opposition-one woman took me by the collar with her two hands, and Mason called to her, "Go to Harry Kirby's, he knows where we are going; he knows where the

things are"—I called to Mr. Brannan—he gave the cabman orders to go as quickly as he could to Pembroke-street, as there were two men running ahead of us as fast as they could—we got before them on the bridge.

Mason. Q. You said they were a mile before you? A. No, I said they kept ahead of us for about a mile.

JOHN HARVEY (Police-sergeant, G 9). I was in the cab—Mason called out to a woman on my side; he said, "Go on, they will go to my house—go to Harry Kirby, he knows where; on the top shelf."

ANN ROBERTS . I and my husband live at 2, Pembroke-street, Caledonian-road—Sawyer took a room on the second floor, of me, on Monday, 26th March—she paid sixpence deposit—they came in on Thursday, the 29th—I did not see Mason till the Monday following—I did not see him above two or three times—I did not speak to him—Sawyer told me she was a washer and ironer, and went out in the morning and came home in the evening, and that Mr. Mason was employed at the theatre.

Mason. Q. Do you recollect telling a person that you never saw me but once? A. No, I did not—I said I had not seen you more than two or three times.

Sawyer. Q. You know I told you he went away on the Wednesday morning, and I saw nothing more of him till the Friday? A. Yes you did; on the day before he was taken, you said you had not seen him in the previous week from Wednesday till Friday.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am Inspector of coin to the Royal Mint—these are the obverse and reverse sides of a mould making a florin, these coins are counterfeit, and a great many of them are from these moulds—these shillings are counterfeit, and these are the gets where the metal runs into the mould—it is then broken or cut off, and they use files to make the edge good as nearly as they can—here are parts of batteries—here is the acid, and these iron spoons—one has some metal in it—these are all used for making counterfeit coin.

Mason's Defence. Sawyer first said I had been eighteen months away from her up to Good Friday; nobody ever saw me take these things to the house; it does not follow that because I had this coin in my possession, that I am the manufacturer: had I been apprehended in making this money, or caught in the house, you would have had some proof against me. The landlady says she never saw me but twice, and if I had been living there I must have been there more than twice in a week; the coin was in my possession, but the moulds were not.

MASON— GUILTY .**— Eight Years' Penal Servitude.


7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-414
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

414. MARY ANN BAMFORD (34), and JANE WHITE (22) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. COOKE and COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM HENRY JUNIUS . I am a wine and spirit merchant, at Groveterrace, Notting-hill—about six weeks or two months ago, the two prisoners came to my house—Bamford called for a pint of whisky—I told her she could not have so small a quantity, I was a wholesale dealer—she said, "Oh! and by-the-bye, have you any Colonial wine"—I said, "Yes"—she asked for a bottle; I said it was 2s., she tendered me a sovereign—I gave her change, a half-sovereign and eight shillings—the sovereign was good, and I thoroughly believe the half-sovereign was a good one—on her taking the change she turned to her friend and said, "Look, my dear, how near

I was losing this sovereign"—she had a sovereign in her porte-monnaie, just at the edge of it—she then addressed herself to me and said, "Was not I near losing it?"—I said, "Yes, I dare say you were"—she had the half-sovereign in her hand, and she rung it and said, "Dear me, I don't like the appearance of this; I don't like the ring of it"—I said, "It is a good one; but never mind, I will give you silver if you like"—she said, "I would rather have silver if you please"—I gave her four half-crowns—I took up the half-sovereign which I considered to be a good one and laid it on the desk—the prisoners then shook hands with me, and wished me good-bye—I was puzzling in my own mind to know who they were—after they were gone, I looked at the half sovereign and I immediately saw it was counterfeit—I kept it by itself and gave it to a constable.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Had you ever seen these women before? A. No—I had two or three other sovereigns but no other half-sovereigns—I don't know how long I had had the half-sovereign—I had myself put the half-sovereign that I gave them in the, till, but I don't know when—it must have been within ten or twelve hours—when I saw the prisoners again they were in custody—I saw an account itf the paper and I wrote a letter to the person who gave them in custody—I went to the Mansion House—I knew the prisoners immediately; I took such notice of them at first.

FREDERICK ARTHUR . I am in the service of Poulding and Co., linen drapers—they have a shop in Coventry-street—on 15th March the prisoner White came in the shop—she asked to look at some net—I served her—she selected a quarter of a yard, which came to 8d.—she tendered me a sovereign in payment—I gave her in change a half-sovereign and 9s. 4d. in silver—I put it on the counter—she took it upf and in taking it up she dropped a half-sovereign; not the one I gave her, I am satisfied—she said, "This is cracked," I said, "It is quite good—I assumed that it was the one I had I given her—I took it to the clerk and he said it was not the one he had given me—I had been to the clerk for the money, and the half-sovereign he gave me I had given to the prisoner—the prisoner gave her name and address—she produced a card.

Cross-examined. Q. Had you ever seen this woman before? A. No—the half-sovereign she returned was not the one she had from me—I was sure it was bad when I took it in my hand—I assumed it was the one I had given her—that was before I had it in my hand—I said it was good—that was the remark I made when she rang it on the counter—I took it and found I it was light—I went to the clerk, and I am positive that the half-sovereign that I took from the clerk and gave to her was a good one.

FREDERICK MORGAN . I am in the same employ as the last witness—on 15th March about half past 1 o'clock I saw White in the shop—I heard her I asked where she lived—she said her husband was a carpenter, and lived at Birmingham; that she had been in London about a month, and her name was Clark and she lived at No. 31, Gerrard-street, Soho, and was a dress-maker—she produced her card—she had three or four cards—she said her brother lived in Seymour-place, by Euston-square—I received the half-sovereign in two parts and gave it at the Mansion House—her brother's address was inquired into, and he said he had been there twenty years.

JURY. Q. You saw several cards; did you see them so distinctly as to I know whether they had the same inscription on them? A. Yes.

JOSEPH LANE . I am assistant to Mr. Smart, a tobacconist in Fenchurch-street—the two prisoners came there on 9th April—one of them asked for

a tobacco jar—I showed them some—she selected one; the value of it was half-a-crown—she put down a sovereign—I gave her a half-sovereign and 7s. 6d. in silver, which I took from the till, and I left in the till one half-sovereign—I laid the money on the glass slide—she took up the half-sovereign and rung it on the glass and said, "Dear me, I think it is cracked"—I said I did not think it was cracked, but if she did not like that, I would give her another for it—she then showed it to White, and said, "Don't you think it is cracked?"—she said, "No; I don't think it is cracked, very likely the ring makes it sound peculiar, ringing it on the glass"—Bamford said, "Mind, you have not got your old butcher's block to ring it on"—White said, "Would you be kind enough to give her another one"—I gave her another half-sovereign out of the till, and the one she gave me back I put into the till—they left the shop, and Mr. Jones came, and went to the till and took the half-sovereign out—I should think not a minute had elapsed after the prisoners had left the shop—from what he said I ran out of the shop to look after the prisoners—I could not find them.

Cross-examined. Q. How long had they been in the shop? A. About a quarter of an hour—I believe Mr. Jones had taken one of the half-sovereigns and I had taken the other about ten minutes before the prisoners came in—I had taken it from a gentleman for a cigar—I gave him silver in change.

MR. COOKE. Q. Was the half-sovereign that you got from the prisoners the only one that was in the till when Mr. Jones opened it? A. Yes.

WILLIAM JONES . I am the manager to Messrs. Smart and Co.—I saw Lane with the prisoners on 9th April—when the prisoners left I went to the till, and found there a counterfeit half-sovereign—I spoke to Lane, and sent him out in the street—I marked the half-sovereign, wrapped it up, took it to the police-station, and gave it to an officer.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you mean there was only one half-sovereign in the till? A. Only one—I know that about a quarter of an hour before the prisoners came, there were two half-sovereigns there, and good ones.

CAROLINE HODGES . I serve at Mr. Hodges' wine vaults—on Friday fortnight the two prisoners came there, and Bamford called for two glasses of sherry—she gave me a good sovereign—I gave her a half-sovereign and silver in change—I went to serve a gentleman, and while I was serving him, she said, "I don't like the sound of this half-sovereign; I suppose it is your counter makes it sound so"—I did not take notice of it, and she spoke to her friend, and made the remark again—I said, "What is it you don't like"—she then had a half-sovereign in her hand—I turned round and saw it was a bad one, and directly she gave it me I called the barman to take it to his master, and he came back with him having the half-sovereign—I am sure that was not the one that I had given to the prisoner.

Cross-examined. Q. I suppose you say you are sure the one you gave her was good, because you found the other was bad? A. Yes; I jink'd the one I gave her, as I always do, to let people see that it is good money—I am sure the one I gave her was good; and what she returned me was bad—I did not see her change it—I took the half-sovereign which I gave her from a drawer which we keep the gold in—there were other half-sovereigns there—I should not like to swear how many, and I could not say how long they had been there—I had not seen the prisoners before—they were given in custody at our place.

GEORGE HODGES . I am barman to my uncle, Mr. Hodges, and husband of the last witness—on Friday, the 20th of April, the prisoners came to our

house about a quarter before four o'clock in the afternoon—they asked for 2 glasses of sherry—they were served in my presence, and Bamford put down a sovereign—Mrs. Hodges took it up, and she afterwards showed me a bad half-sovereign—Bamford said it was cracked—I said it was a bad one; it was not cracked—I gave it to my uncle, and he gave the prisoners in custody.

WILLIAM ARCHER (City-policeman, 661), I was sent for to Mr. Hodges' house on 20th April—the prisoners were given into mj custody on a charge of passing bad money—I got this half-sovereign at Mr. Hodges'—I received this other from Mr. Jones—I received these two halves from Mr. Morgan.

MR. COOPER. Q. Were the prisoners asked where they came from? A. Yes; they each said they came from Birmingham, and had been in London about a fortnight—they gave an address in Seymour-place, at a hairdresser's—they were searched by a female, and 8s. 4d. was found on Bamford, and 1s. 1d. on White; all good.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This half-sovereign produced from Mr. Hodgea is bad, and is of the date of 1857—here is another of the date of 1857, from the same mould—this broken one is of the date 1859, and is bad—and here is another of that date from the same mould.

BAMFORD— GUILTY .** Confined Fifteen Months.

WHITE— GUILTY . Confined Nine Months.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-415
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

415. GEORGE EVANS (28), HENRY MORGAN (23), and HENRY WILLIAM (25), were indicted for a like offence; to which they

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months each.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-416
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

416. PETER WHITTY (30), CHARLES PAYNE (28), and ROBERT ENGLAND (24) , Unlawfully having counterfeit coin in their possession.

MESSRS. COOKE and Cooper conducted the Prosecution.

MATHIAS WOOD . I am a tobacconist of High-street, Islington—on 17th April the prisoner Payne came to my shop about 7 o'clock in the evening—he asked for half an ounce of tobacco; I served him—he gave me in pavment a shilling—I gave him a sixpence and 4 1/2 d. change, and he left—I placed that shilling in the till—there were other shillings there, but this shilling was placed apart from them—when Payne had left, the constable came in, and I took the shilling out of the till and gave it him—he marked it and returned it to me—I have no doubt it was the shilling I took from Payne.

Payne. Q. Did you put the shilling in a particular place by itself? A. It was by itself—it dropped in the same division with about six others, but this was at the other end—I put it apart from the other money because I pay particular attention to the last money I take.

MR. COOKE. Q. When the constable came in, did he ask you what coin the man had given you? A. Yes; and I took the shilling out that had been given me by Payne—when I opened the till again I found the shilling separate from the others—up to that time I had not discovered that it was bad.

JANE BARTON . I keep a coffee-shop in Church-row, Islington—on 17th April Payne and England came into my shop between 6 and 7 o'clock in the evening—they asked for two cups of coffee and two slices of bread and butter—I believe it was England gave me a florin, and I gave him change; a shilling, a sixpence, and a penny—they left the shop, and soon afterwards a policeman came in—I showed him the florin that I had received from the prisoners; he discovered it was bad—I had put the florin I had received

from the prisoners in a porte-monnaie with two others—I took the first one out—the policeman got one florin from me—I cannot say that it was the one the prisoners gave me.

England. Q. What did the constable say to you? A. He said, "What coin did those men pay you?"—I said, "A 2s. piece, and I put it in my purse with others"—he looked at my purse and took out one bad florin.

HERBERT STAMMERS (Policeman, 136 N.) I was on duty with Newbold in High-street, Islington, on 17th April, about half-past 6 o'clock in the evening—I saw the three prisoners in company—I saw Payne receive something from Whitty, and he wect into Mr. Wood's shop—he came out and the other two prisoners joined him—I went into Mr. Wood's shop, and a bad shilling was produced to me—I came out and followed the prisoners, who were walking and talking together—in eight or ten minutes Payne and England went into Mrs. Barton's coffee-shop, and Whitty went on to the King's Head—Payne and England came out of the coffee-shop, and they went on the same side of the way till they came opposite the King's Head—Whitty came out, and England made a motion to Whitty who remained on the King's Head side—I got this bad florin at the coffee-shop, and then crossed the road and took Whitty in custody—he put his hand to his pocket, and I said, "You had better let it be, now"—he was very violent—I threw him on his back and took a parcel from his hand which he took out of his pocket—it contained these six florins—Newbold, the other officer, took Payne and England to the station—they said they did not know anything of each other.

England. Q. When did you first see me in company with these two others? A. At half-past 6 o'clock near the Angel.

MR. COOKE. Q. What interval was there between Payne coming oat of Mr. Wood's and their going to the coffee-shop? A. About 8 or 10 minutes—they were in my sight all the time.

WILLIAM NEWBOLD (Policeman, N 151). I was with the last witness—I saw England take a bag like this (produced) out of his pocket and give something to Whitty—I afterwards took Payne and England—I told them I should take them for uttering counterfeit coin—they said they had been in the coffee-shop and had bread and butter, and tea, but they had no bad money—I found on Payne a half-crown, a sixpence, and a shilling; and on England two shillings, two sixpences, and 7 1/2 d., and a paper of tobacco—I found on Payne this tooth-brush, it appeared to be coloured with bright metal.

Payne. Q. Did you tell me what you took me for? A. I said for uttering counterfeit coin—I might have said for smashing—you said you had been in the coffee-shop—I did not say "Come along, my boy, we have got you this time all to rights."

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These florins are all counterfeit, and this shilling is bad.

Whitty's Defence. I was passing by the Angel. I met these two; Payne went into Mr. Wood's shop and came out; I went and got a penny loaf, and went to the King's Head; and in coming out, I picked up a parcel on the pavement; the officer came up and caught hold of me. I asked him what he wanted me for; he said, "For passing counterfeit coin;" he said, "Keep the parcel where it is," and it contained six counterfeit florins.

PAYNE'S DEFENCE. I met England and we went on together to get a cup of tea; we came out, and he said he would go and get a light for his pipe; the officer came and said, "I want you for smashing." I said, "We

have been and had a cup of tea;" he said, "Come on, we have got you to rights now." I want to know how a person can be accused of passing bad money when another person gives it him. Mr. Wopd says he put the shilling in the till by itself, but he had no reason for putting it by itself, because he did not know it was bad; he threw it in the, till; and why should a man who had no suspicion put it by itself, it might be bad for what I know. I had taken change for half-a-crown down in the City, and if the shilling was bad I did not know it.

England's Defence. I met this young man and he gave me a penny, and said, "Come and have a cup of tea;" we went and had it and came out, and the constable came and took us. I had not' passed anything that was bad. I went to get a light for my pipe, and the constable said we had been smashing. I said we had been to the coffee-shop; he said, "Come on, we have got you to rights now."

WHITTY— GUILTY .**— Confined Eighteen Months.

PAYNE— GUILTY .*— Confined Twelve Months.

ENGLAND— GUILTY .*— Confined Fifteen Months.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-417
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

417. JOHN DUNN (19) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. COOKE conducted the Prosecution.

ELIZABETH MOXON . I am servant at the Adelaide public-house, Liverpool-road—on 18th April, between 4 and 5 o'clock, the prisoner came for half a pint of porter, and a screw of tobacco—they came to 1 1/2 d.—he tendered in payment a 2s. piece—I gave him in change three 4d. pieces, a sixpence, and 4 1/2 d.—I took the florin to my mistress, she tried it and bent it—I ran to the door and saw the prisoner running down the road—I pointed him out, he was chased and brought back.

THOMAS PEACH . I am the son of the person who keeps the public-house—I saw the prisoner running—I gave him chase to the corner of the nexfe street, tapped him on the shoulder, and asked him if he had been in the Adelaide; he said he had—I said he must come back, and when he had got half way back he wanted to know what it was for—I would not tell him—he came back and was given in custody.

JAMES MARTIN (Policeman, N 335). I was sent for, and took the prisoner—I received this florin.

EDWARD PHINN . I am barman at the Kainbow public-house—on 9th March, the prisoner came there for a glass of stout—I served him and he gave me a florin—I told him it was bad—he said he did not know it waa bad—it was given him for carrying a gentleman's carpet bag—he waa taken in custody and the florin was given to the officer.

ROBERT SPRAKE (City-policeman, 238). On 9th March, I received charge of the prisoner and this bad florin; it was produced at Guildhall—the prisoner was remanded and discharged.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These are both bad.

Prisoner. I will plead guilty. GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

THIRD COURT.—Tuesday, May 8th, 1860.


Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq., and Sixth Jury.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-418
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentencesImprisonment > penal servitude

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418. JOHN NAGEL (22) , Embezzling the sums of 29l., 21l. 10s. 3d., and 17l. 9s. 10d., the monies of Dugald Bremner, and another, his masters; also 17l. 11s., and 12l. 10s.; also 15l. 9s. 9d., and 20l. 0s. 9d. of his said masters; to all of which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Six Years' Penal Servitude.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-419
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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419. FRANCIS LAFFUR (18) , Stealing a cheque for 5l., the monies of John Henry Gardner, his master; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-420
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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420. JOHN DAVIS (19) , Stealing 1 watch and chain, value 8l. 8s., the property of Henry Walsh, from his person; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-421
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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421. THOMAS BARKER (23) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Edwin Marchment, with intent to steal; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Four Years' Penal Servitude.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-422
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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422. THOMAS JACKSON (19) , Stealing acoat, value 10s., the property of Henry C. Nisnall; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Four Years' Penal Servitude.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-423
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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423. CHARLES HONEY (22) , Embezzling the sums of 4l. 10s. 9d., and 4l. 2s. 4d., the monies of James Arnold, his master; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Four Years' Penal Servitude.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-424
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > with recommendation
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

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424. ROBERT HILL and SARAH LAWRENCE, Stealing 2lbs. of tea value 6s. the property of William Peeke, the master of Hill. Second Count, charging Lawrence with feloniously receiving the same; to which Hill

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Three Month.

MR. SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS SMART (City-policeman 411). On 26th April, about 9 o'clock in the morning, I was on London-bridge, and saw Lawrence—I followed her to Fish-street-hill, where Hill met her, and they went into the Mitre tavern together—they stayed about five minutes, and came out together—I then followed Lawrence, stopped her, and asked her what Peeke's man gave her in that public-house—she took this parcel from under her arm, and said, "Only a bit of tea"—I said, "Is that all you have; as I shall have to take you to the station, where you will be searched?"—she took from her pocket another parcel, and I said, "Is that all you have?"—she said "Yes"—I took her to the station, and she produced two other parcels, amounting altogether to more than two pounds (produced)—I then went to Messrs. Peeke's warehouse, and apprehended Hill—while Lawrence was in custody at the station, she said, "I did ask him for a bit of tea, and he gave me a bit of tea"—he said, "And a pretty mess you have got me into."

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Is it all the same class of tea? A. No; this parcel is a particular kind of green tea.

JAMES BOURNE . I am in Messrs. Peeke's employ—according to the best of my judgment and belief this tea is their property—I am experienced in it—I cannot tell the other—Hill was their porter, and had charge of the tea—I have seen Lawrence several times selling matches—we have frequently bought empty chests of her for several years past.

Cross-examined. Q. Where did she live? A. Somewhere in Lambeth; I have been there, but cannot tell the name of the street—she has a room over a marine store shop—she collects chests from the shops—I speak with

certainty to this one sample; there are some particular circumstances with regard to it—it is very unusual for green tea to be put in the loft to which Hill had access, but there happened to be a box 'of green tea, a return package which was opened, and from that this was taken; I know that, because it identically corresponds—I should think you could get such tea anywhere in London—it is tea which we sell very little of; and the paper in which it is wrapped is the same in colour, size, and make—the twine is also the same as we use. LAWRENCE received a good character. GUILTY on Second Count.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury on account of her character. Confined Six Months.

OLD COURT.—Wednesday, May 9th, Thursday, 10th, Friday, 11th, Saturday 12th, and Monday, 14th.

PRESENT—The Right Hon. the LORD MAYOR; Mr. BARON CHANNELL; Mr. Justice KEATING; Mr. Ald. COPELAND M.P.; Sir FRANCIS GRAHAM MOON, Bart., Ald.; Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN, Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald. HALE; Mr. Ald. Conder; and Mr. Ald. ABBISS.

Before Mr. Baron Channell and the Second Jury.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-425
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment > other institution

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425. MARY EUGENIE PLUMMER (11) , was mooted for wilful and corrupt perjury, committed by her on the trial of the Rev. Henry John Hatch. MR. EDWIN JAMES Q.C., with MESSRS. GIFFORD and GORDON ALLEN,

conducted the Prosecution.

MR. SERJEANT SHEE with MESSRS. COOPER and METCALFE conducted the Defence.

The particulars of this case were not, of a nature to admit of their publication.

GUILTY .— Confined Three Weeks, and two Years in a Reformatory.

THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, May 9th, 1860.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Sixth Jury.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-426
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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426. MARGARET CLINES (28) , Stealing 1 jacket and 1 frock, value 10s., the property of Nathaniel McSweeney; to which she

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-427
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > pleaded guilty

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427. SARAH CANNELL (27), and ELIZA CHUTER (17) , Stealing 8 head-nets, 17 cakes of soap, and other articles, the property of Cornelia Colley, their mistress; to which



Confined Six Months

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-428
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

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428. HENRY WILKINSON (25), and CATHARINE GORMAN (32) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. COOKE conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM SHRUB (Policeman, D 95). I was on duty on Friday, 16th March, and saw the two prisoners in company in York-street—I and White, kept them in sight for two hours and a quarter—I saw them go into the Walmer Castle—they came out together; I and White followed them about, two miles, and then took them in custody—I found on Wilkinson three

shillings, two sixpences, twopence-halfpenny in copper, a new pipe, and three small screws of tobacco—he said, "What are you going to take me for?"—I said, "For uttering bad coin along with that woman"—he said, "You are mistaken, I don't know her"—I said I saw them go into a public-house and have a glass of gin—he said, "Would not you go in, if a woman asked you?"

JANE KIRK . I am barmaid at the Walmer Castle—on Friday 16th March, the prisoners came in—Gorman asked for half a quartern of gin—I served her—she gave me a 2s. piece—I gave her in change a shilling, a sixpence and fourpence in copper—I threw the florin carelessly in the till amongst the coppers—shortly afterwards White came in, and in consequence of what he said, I opened the till and pulled out the same florin that she gave me, and showed it to the policeman; I had no other—the prisoners shared the gin between them.

WILLIAM CANN . I am shopman to Mr. Harvey, who lives in Circus-street—on Friday, 16th March, Gorman came in and asked for some tin tacks—she tendered me a florin; I broke it and gave it her back—she said, "My husband knows where he took it; I shall not be a loser"—she paid for the tacks with a good 2s. piece.

EDWARD WHITE (Policeman, D 310.) On 16th March, I was on duty, and saw the two prisoners in Circus-street—I had been watching them a quarter of an hour—I saw them stand opposite Mr. Harvey's shop—Wilkinson put his hand in his pocket and gave Gorman something—that was about thirty yards from the shop—Gorman then went into the shop—she came out again and joined Wilkinson—I went into the shop and ascertained what Gorman had done there; and in consequence of that, I followed the prisoners till I saw them go into the Walmer Castle—when the prisoners were taken, I found on Gorman a 5s. piece, a half-crown, a 4d. piece, and 10 1/4 d. in coppers all good—during the time we were watching them, Gorman went into several shops—Wilkinson waited outside, and when she came out he joined her again—I got this florin at the Walmer Castle.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am Insjector of coin to the Royal Mint—this florin is bad.

Wilkinson's Defence. I was waiting for my brother leaving his work; the female I am now charged with came by, and knowing her from keeping a fruit-stall, I spoke to her. After conversing some time, we went into the prosecutor's, and she called for some gin, and paid for it with a half-crown or a 2s. piece: when I came out, I walked some distance with her; she entered no shop during the time she was in my company—I was bidding her good-night when the policeman took her in custody, and he said to me, "I shall take you on suspicion of having bad money, as you and the woman have given a bad florin for drink at the public-house." I told him his suspicions were wrong, as I knew nothing about it, and I bad no bad money to my knowledge about me; he searched me and found my statement was correct, for what money I had was genuine—the barmaid informed you I gave her no money, and the ironmonger never saw me.

WILKINSON— GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

GORMAN— GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-429
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

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429. MICHAEL ROGERS (39), and MARY WOOD (39) were indicted for a like offence.

MR. COOKE conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN BENT . On 25th April I was in Balls Pond-road—t saw the two prisoners in company—Rogers went into Mr. Sisley's, a baker's—he waa in there a short time, and Wood was standing outsider-Rogers came out and went across the road, and he motioned to Wood to go into the shop, and she went in immediately—I saw Mr. Sisley come out and take Rogers.

Rogers. He never saw me at all. Witness. Yes, I did; it was just about 3 o'clock—I saw him taken in custody, and I went to the office.

Wood. You never saw me speak to this man. Witness. I saw you close together, I did not see you speak to him.

CHARLOTTE SISLEY . My father keeps a baker's shop in Balls Pond-road, and I serve in the shop—Rogers came in the shop and asked for a penny loaf—I served him; he gave me a shilling—I gave him a sixpence and 5d., he went out with the loaf, I put the shilling in the till—there was no other shilling there—directly after he was gone, Wood came in; she asked for a penny loaf, and gave me a shilling—I said "This is a bad one"—she said "Here is another"—but I did not see any other—at that moment my father came into the shop, and he said, "And so was the other"—he went to the till and I took the shilling out and gave both the shillings to him—Wood was detained, and my father went out and took Rogers—when he came back, Wood said she did not know him. Wood. You said it was a bad shilling; I said I did not know it, and I said, "Here is another." Thomas Avert Sisley. I was sitting in my parlour close by my shop; I saw the two prisoners outside, looking in the shop—Wood attempted to go in, but Rogers stepped in first, and Wood drew back—that drew my suspicion; and after Rogers was gone I called to my daughter, and asked what he had given her; she said, "A shilling,"'—Wood then came in, and I heard my daughter say "This is a bad shilling"—I went in the shop and said, "So is the other"—my daughter opened the till and took the shilling out; and she gave me two bad shillings—I went after Rogers and saw him 30 or 40 yards away—I accused him of passing two bad shillings—he paid he had not been in the Bhop—I brought him back to my shop, and he said he did not know Wood—I told him I had seen them both looking in—he made no answer—I gave them both in custody to Mansfield, with the two shillings.

Rogers. I could not deny that I had been in the shop, when I showed you the loaf; I had plenty of time to get away; there were five minutes elapsed.

Witness. No; there was only time for me to go from the parlour to the shop—you did deny that you had been in the shop.

THOMAS MANSFIELD (Policeman, N 274). I took Rogers—I found on him a loaf, a sixpence, and twelve penny pieces—I produce these two shillings.

SAMUEL MINTEK (Policeman, N 218.) I took Wood—I found on her a good shilling, a halfpenny, and a farthing.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These shillings are both counterfeit.

Rogers' Defence. I had the loaf in my hand, I went and bought it; I did not know that I had a bad shilling.

Wood's Defence. I went for a loaf; I had a shilling; I did not know it was bad.

ROGERS— GUILTY .— Confined Fifteen Months.

WOOD— GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-430
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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430. JOHN BAXTER (37) , Stealing 50l. and other sums, amounting together to 328l. 4s. 8d., the monies of Samuel Christie and others, his masters; to which he


Recommended to Mercy by the Prosecutor— Confined Twelve Months.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-431
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

431. BRIDGET FAIREY (26) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. COOKE conducted the Prosecution.

CATHARINE HUGHES . I live with my father, who keeps the Torrington Arms—on 10th April the prisoner came, and asked for a quartern of rum—I served her; she tendered in payment a florin—I gave her 1s. 7s. change, and she left the house with it—in about two minutes I found it was bad—I had put it in the till—I gave it to my father; my sister put it in the fire, and it melted away—in about 2 hours the prisoner came again—I knew her—she asked for a glass of ale, and tendered a shilling—I saw it was bad—I gave her 10 1/2 d. change, and allowed her to go away—I spoke to my father directly, and he followed her—I kept that shilling by itself—I saw the prisoner again the next night, she came for half a pint of gin; it came to 8d.—she tendered me a 5s. piece—my father came in the bar, and she was taken in custody—I gave the policeman the 5s. piece and the shilling.

HUGH HUGHES . On 10th April, my daughter, the last witness, showed me a florin which I found to be counterfeit—I gave it back to her—the same day she showed me a shilling; and I followed the prisoner to 4, Repton-place, I saw her go in there—the next day I was called into the bar by my daughter, about 9 o'clock in the evening—I saw the prisoner in front of the bar, and my daughter in her presence gave me a counterfeit crown—I asked the prisoner where she lived—she said she had got no home—I said it was not true, because I had followed her home—she then said that she did not know the crown was bad, and that a gentleman gave it to her—I said "How about that bad shilling that you passed yesterday?"—she said, "I was not the lady"—I said, "Why, I followed you home"—she said if it was bad the same gentleman gave it her—I sent for a constable and gave her in custody with the bad shilling and the crown.

JOHN BLENCOWE (Policeman, N 65). I took the prisoner—5d. in copper was found on her—I produce the shilling and the crown.

The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows:—"The shilling and the crown were given me by a man, the maker of them, at the Boot public-house in Well-street, Oxford-street."

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These are both counterfeit.

Prisoner's Defence. I am an unfortunate woman left with three children; the 5s. piece was given to me by a man at the Boot public-house, Well-street, to come home with me and sleep; but he did not come, nor have I seen him since. He took my address; I can assure you I did not know it was bad.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-432
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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432. JOHN TODD (38), was indicted for a like offence.

MR. COOKE conducted the Prosecution.

SARAH OSTIME . My husband keeps a tobacconist's shop in Nassau-place, Commercial-road—on 12th April, the prisoner came, and asked for half an ounce of tobacco, the price was 1 1/4 d.; he gave me half-a-crown—I told him it was bad—he took it from my hand and said, "More to my sorrow"—I said, "If you will give it me back I will bend it"—he said, "Never mind, I will take it where I got it from"—I asked if he was going to have the tobacco—he said he had only one penny in his pocket—he left, and immediately afterwards he was brought back by a constable; he produced a half-crown to me—it had the same head on it as the one the prisoner had offered to me.

HENRY WILMOTT (Policeman, A 495). On 12th April I followed the prisoner; I saw him go into the shop, I watched through the window, and when

he came oot I took his right band and took this half-crown form it—I asked him if he had any more money, he said, "Only a penny"—I said I should search him, and while I was attempting to search him he took a good shilling and a good sixpence out of his pocket and put them in his mouth—I seized him and made him put them out—I found on him 1 1/2 d. and some tobacco—he told me where he lived, but it was a false address.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This half-crown is bad.

Prisoner's Defence. I did not know it was bad.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-433
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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433. WILLIAM TOMS (23), was indicted for a like offence.

MR. COOKE conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY BUTTERS . On 12th April, the prisoner came to my house and asked for a glass of sixpenny ale—I drew it, placed it before him, and he put down a half-crown—I took it up and said, "This is a bad one"—he said, "Worse luck,—the only money I have besides is one penny;" and he put that down—I sent for a policeman and gave him in charge. I took a bad crown two days before, but not from the, prisoner—I believe it was from Todd.

Prisoner. Q. Did you not show the crown I gave you to a customer? A. Yes,; and he cut it in two with something he had in his hand—I gave the same pieces to the policeman.

PATRICK MADIGAN (Policeman, K 120.) I produce the pieces of the half-crown—the prisoner was given into my custody—he gave me 1 1/2 d. and said that was all he had—I searched him and found another penny—he offered to make a statement—I said, "Whatever you say I shall give in evidence against you"—he said, "I got the money from a man at the top of the street, who said, 'Go to that house and change it, and if you change it, as you are hard up, I will give you half'—I changed a bad 5s. piece there last night"—he said it was the first time he had passed bad money—this is the bad crown.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This is a counterfeit crown, and these are pieces of a counterfeit half-crown.

Prisoners Defence. I was very badly off and a man gave it me to pass it.

GUILTY .— Confined Four Months.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-434
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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434. ELIZABETH GILPORT (30) , Feloniously uttering counterfeit coin. Mr. Cooke conducted the Prosecution.

JOSEPH WILSON (Police-sergeant, T 11.) I produce a certificate of a conviction—(Read: "Central Criminal Court, February 7th, 1859: Elizabeth Gilport convicted of uttering counterfeit coin. Confined Nine Months.")—I was present—she is the person.

EMMA NASH . My husband keeps a hosier's shop at Pimlico—on 1st May the prisoner came, and asked for a pair of socks; they came to 2 3/4 d.—she gave me a shilling, I put it in the detector and found it was bad—I noticed it and said, "Look at the edge of it"—I gave it her, and she said, "I shall be back in three minutes, I took it at the grocery"—as soon as she left a policeman came in and showed me the same shilling that the prisoner had offered me; I knew it by the mark I had made on it.

HENRY LANGSTON (Policeman, T 195.) I was on duty in plain clothes at Kensington; I noticed the prisoner and James Flack together at the corner of Holland-street—Flack gave the prisoner something which he took from under his coat—they went down the street; Flack was a little way behind the prisoner—I saw the prisoner go into Mr. Nash's shop—she came out and

joined Flack—I went into the shop and inquired, and from what Mrs. Nas, said, I came out and followed the prisoner and Flack, who were then three or four hundred yards from the shop—they were both on the same side of the street, and they saw a policeman coming towards them in uniform, and they separated—the policeman passed on, and they joined again—I went to the prisoner and told her she must come back with me—before I spoke to her she said, "I know nothing of that man"—I saw the prisoner throw down a florin and a shilling—the florin was picked up and given to me, and the shilling was taken up by a boy—it was given to me, and that was the same shilling I showed to Mrs. Nash—this is it, and this is the florin—I took a purse from the prisoner's hand and there was a good florin in it—I took Flack, and while he was struggling with me he took something from his pocket and dropped it over a garden fence—I looked over the railings and saw two paper packets; one packet was broken and two shillings loose—I took them up—the two shillings are counterfeit—one packet contained three florins and the other seven shillings—I found on Flack three sixpences, a 4d.-piece, a 3d.-piece, and 6d. in coppers.

Prisoner. I went for the socks; I did not know the shilling was bad.

WALTER COLLINGS . I am an errand boy—I was by when the policeman caught the two persons—I saw the prisoner throw some money down; I picked up a two-shilling piece, and another boy picked up a shilling and gave to the policeman.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These are all bad coin—the three florins and the one picked up are from the same mould.


7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-435
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment

Related Material

435. ELIZABETH GILPORT was again indicted with JAMES FLACK (24) , for unlawfully having counterfeit coin in possession.

MR. COOKE conducted the Prosecution.

The evidence of Henry Langston was read over by the Court, to which he assented.

Flack. I was twenty yards away from this woman. Witness. No they were both together—they had been separated, but had joined again—I caught them both at once—I saw Flack throw the papers over the rails—I saw his hand go over the rails, and heard the money rattle—I gave him in charge to two other constables who took him to the station—I got over the rails and took the papers—I went to the station and said, "Here is what you threw over"—he made no reply.

The evidence of Walter Collings, Emma Nash, and William Webster was read by the Court, to which they assented.

GILPORT— GUILTY .— Four Years' Penal Servitude.

FLACK— GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-436
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

436. GEORGE WILLIAMS, alias Thomas Davis (49) , Feloniously having counterfeit coin in his possession.

MR. COOKE conducted the Prosecution.

LAWRENCE RYAN (Policeman, A 333). I produce a certificate of conviction—(Read: "Central Criminal Court, January 7, 1857, George Williams convicted of having counterfeit coin in his possession. Confined One Year")—the prisoner is the person—I had him in custody.

Prisoner. Q. Where did you take me? A. In Endell-street, near to a public-house—I am sure you are the person.

JAMES BRANNAN . I received information and went to the Boot public-house in Well-street, Oxford-street, on 14th April, between 2 and 3 o'clock—I saw the prisoner and two women in the bar—I was making my way to the tap-room, and was called back by Inspector Bryant—I noticed the

prisoner moving a paper packet on the floor with his left foot, as if to move it under the form from my observation—I took it up, and it had in it 12 florins and 3 shillings—I said to the prisoner, "Well, Bath Tommy, I have received instruction from the solicitor of the Mint to look after you, as dealing largely in counterfeit coin"—he said, "I have not been long here"—I said, "No; you have not been here above ten days or a fortnight, but I have had you under observation in Tottenham-court-road"—he said, "I know nothing about it; this is a very nice thing"—I said, "So it-is," showing him the packet of coin which I had picked up—at that time Johnson called me by name—she said, "Mr. Brannan, what am I detained here for"—I said, "We shall see presently"—she said, "You know me"—I said, "I forget you for the moment; what is your name"—she said, "My name is Brown"—I said," Where do you reside"—she said, "I decline giving my address"—I then asked Stonehouse her name—she said, "Stone-house, 20, Eagle-street, Holborn"—I have been there and made inquiries, but can't find any thing of her—I then picked up on the floor of the taproom 10 counterfeit shillings—there was great confusion in consequence of Johnson endeavouring to get through an aperture, which Stonehouse had got through.

Prisoner. I have been searched and nothing found on me.

EDMUND JAMES JONAS . I am Governor of Newgate—the prisoner has been in custody here—I can't say in what name, but I will swear he has been here four or five times.

BENJAMIN BRYANT . I am an inspector of police—I went with Mr. Brannan and other constables to the Boot—I saw the prisoner in the bar—Stonehouse and Johnson went through an aperture—one of them went through, the other stuck—I took the prisoner, and while I was about to search him, the mob were making their way into the house; and while I was taking the prisoner back, he threw a parcel down, which broke on the floor and formed several small parcels—I called to Mr. Brannan, and I saw him pick up the parcel that I saw the prisoner throw down—before that I had picked up a parcel which contained 3 crowns and 36 half-crowns—the crowns were wrapped in separate paper, the half-crowns were all together—I saw Serjeant Brannan pick up a parcel close by where I picked up mine—I knew the prisoner before by the name of Bath Tommy—he is the person that was tried here before.

Prisoner. Q. Did you search me? A. No, I did not directly; I did ultimately—I did not search the bar, Mr. Brannan did—I did not see you throw anything over the bar—I found 3s. 4d. in good money in your pocket.

JOHN HARVEY (Police-sergeant, G 8.) I went to the house, and directed my attention to the two women—I saw Stonehouse getting through an aperture, and Johnson was half-way through it—Johnson noticed me—she was coming on her hands and knees, and she threw this piece of paper from her hand near to a stool, and Stonehouse said to me, "What are you doing here; I have got nothing"—I turned to Johnson and said to her, "What is in the basket you have in your hand?"—there was nothing in it—at the same time Stonehouse said, "Here is what I have"—there was 10s. 1d. in good money in her hand—they both stood against the stool, and I said to-them, "Come away from there; let me look behind you"—neither of them moved, and I pulled them away, and I found the paper which Johnson threw—it contained a half-crown and two florins, all bad—they both said, "We only came in to get a pint of beer, and I think it very hard that we should be detained here—Stonehouse was very violent, and said she would bring an

action—I said, "You had better speak to Mr. Brannan, the case is in his hands."

JAMES BRANNAN, JUN . (Police-sergeant, G 21). I saw the two women getting through the aperture—I saw the prisoner drop one parcel—I took it up—it contained 35 counterfeit shillings—I told the landlord that I believed the prisoner threw something over the counter, and the landlord replied, "No; you will find them all on the other side."

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These coins are all bad—several of the florins are from one mould—the two florins produced by Mr. Harvey are from the same mould as many of the others—this half-crown is from the same mould as several of the others—the shillings are from various moulds; they are some of the best and finest impressions I have ever seen.

Prisoner's Defence. I was searched; there was no bad money found on me. I never saw any of these coins till now. GUILTY .

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-437
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

437. GEORGE WILLIAMS was again indicted with ROSINA STONEHOUSE (18) and ANN JOHNSON (44) for unlawfully having counterfeit coin in their possession.

MR. COOKE conducted the Prosecution.

The evidence given by the witnesses in the former case was read over by the Court, to which they assented.

Johnson's Defence. We are accused of being in company with this man, but we were not; we were going into another part of the bar, and the officer came and took us. We were in the house by ourselves.

JURY to JOHN HARVEY. Q. Were the women passing from the spot when the man was? A. Yes.

WILLIAMS— GUILTY .*— Eight Years' Penal Servitude.

STONEHOUSE— GUILTY .*— Confined Eighteen Months.

JOHNSON— GUILTY .*— Confined Two Years.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-438
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

438. HENRY WALLIS was indicted for unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin. MR. COOKE conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS SHIRLEY . I am shopman to Mr. Philpott, a stationer, in King William-street—on 20th April, about a quarter past 7 o'clock, I was called to the counter by Mrs. Philpott—she asked me if a shilling was good, which the prisoner had offered her—I took it in my mouth and bent it, and said it waa a very bad one—I told the prisoner he ought to be ashamed of coming there passing bad money—I told him he knew it was bad—I put it on the counter—he took it up, and walked away with it.

BEATRICE PHILPOTT . On 20th April the prisoner came to my shop, he asked for a number of "Household Words"—I had not got it, and he took up a number of "Welcome Guest," he said, "that would do;" he put down a shilling, and I called the last witness and gave him the shilling—he Raid it was bad—the prisoner took it up and walked away with it.

CATHERINE PEAD . I keep two shops; 49 & 63, Gracechurch-street—on 20th April, I was at 49, about twenty minutes before 8 o'clock—the prisoner came in for half an ounce of tobacco—I served him—the price was 2d.—he tendered me a shilling—I took it in my hand and said it was bad—he took it and went out of the shop—Mrs. Martin was in the shop.

HENRY MARTIN . I am shopman, at the shop 63—the prisoner came in a little before 8 o'clock, in the evening, for half an ounce of tobacco—I served him and he gave me a shilling—my mother, who was present, made a remark, and I looked at the shilling and found it was bad—I told the prisoner so—my mother said that he had been to the other shop, and had

offered a bad shilling—he ran out at the door and stumbled upon a policeman, who took him.

JOHN LEACH (City-policeman, 508.) I saw the prisoner running out of 63—I caught him—I found on him thirteen sixpences, two 4d. pieces, four 3d. pieces, and one halfpenny, all good—I found forty-one duplicates—this is the shilling I got from the last witness—I asked the prisoner his address, he did not give any.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This shilling is bad.

Prisoner's Defence. I went to the wharf on the morning of 20th April; I met a young man I know, and we went and had some drink. I changed a half-sovereign and the shilling was one of the change; I was not aware it was bad; I went to one shop, they said it was bad; I said I would walk to the other shop and try it; if I had found that it was bad, I would have taken it back; it was my opinion that it was good; if I had not been intoxicated I should not have taken the change without examining it.

COURT to JOHN LEACH. Q. Was he sober or drunk? A. He was quite sober.


FOURTH COURT.—Wednesday, May 9th 1860.


Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq. and the Eighth Jury.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-439
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

439. LOUIS BLANCHET (27) , stealing 1 watch, 1 pair of ear-rings, 1 brooch, 25 diamonds and brilliants, and other goods, value 149l., the property of Hermann Joel, in his dwelling-house.

MR. SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.

(The prisoner, being a foreigner, the evidence was interpreted to him.)

HERMANN JOEL . I am a jeweller, carrying on business at 34, Boulevard de Temple, in Paris—I arrived in London on Sunday, March 11th, and went to stay at the White Hart Hotel, Bishopsgate-street, while I was in London—I brought with me, in the course of my trading business, a large quantity of jewellery—on the following Saturday I went out between 5 and 6 in the evening—previous to going out, I left some of the jewellery in my portmanteau, which I locked, and left safe in my bed-room—I returned at a little before 12 o'clock that night—I went to my bed-room, and found my portmanteau there, broken open—the contents were gone—some clothing, that I had left hanging in the room, was gone—the jewellery which I had left in the portmanteau was in a little bag—on my return I found that bag on the mantle-shelf open and empty—all that was left in it was a return ticket to Paris—I called the girl that does the rooms, and gave information—the assistance of an officer was procured—here is a cameo brooch, a pair of diamond earrings, and a gold watch, (produced) they are all my property—here are also four diamonds which I believe to have come from a brooch that was my property—this property was left safe on the night of 17th March in the way I nave described.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Did you bring this jewellery over here? A. Yes; to sell—they are not new now; they were then—I have been over here before for the purpose of selling watches, and have sold them to persons in Birmingham, and to private people in London; not jewellers—I used to go to their houses; I used not to go to the French cafes to meet people there—when I first came over here, I came on speculation, and I went to a friend of mine, a Mr. Hanby, an engineer, who

lives at Greenwich—I did not come over on business that time; I came over with my brother—I did come over to sell the things—I did not go anywhere in order to sell them; I intended to go somewhere in order to sell them—I was told the name of Johnson, a refiner—I have done business with him before—I brought no loose diamonds over with me—the diamonds were in brooches, which I had brought over to sell—I went to Mr. Hanby—he is not a dealer in jewellery, but he buys them for the ladies—he bought four watches—during this week that I had been in London, I had not gone anywhere with jewellery to sell, but I had with some watches—I sold four watches, and a gold brooch—that is all—that was before the robbery—I sold them all to the refiner—he paid 26l.—I had not offered them to any one else but that refiner—I sold them on the Monday or Tuesday before the robbery, which was on Saturday—I had not offered any goods between the Monday or Tuesday, and the Saturday—I had been with my brother-in-law—I am not in the habit of going to the French cafe's in London; not to those in Leicester-square—I have never been there since I have been in London—I never go there to see any of my own countrymen—I was in the Cafe Chantant where the singing is, twelve months ago—I had never sold or offered these for sale to any one else but the refiner—they were gold watches—I am a dealer—I have not got a shop in Paris, but a private business—I identify these things—I believe the diamonds are mine—I cannot swear to loose diamonds.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. How long have you been in business in Paris? A. Sixteen years-the loose diamonds I spoke of, formed part of a brooch that I broke up—this is a portion of an old brooch—this is the form of the brooch from which I took the diamonds—it is part of the brooch which I broke up—that was about three months ago—I did not sell, or offer for sale, to any one in London, any of these articles that have been produced here to-day as my property.

MR. RIBTON. Q. Had you any other watches like that? A. No; I have only recovered a small portion of the jewellery that was taken from me—I consider the value of what I lost to be 153l. and of what I recovered about 50l. or 60l.

JOHN LEONARD (Policeman, G), I arrested the prisoner, about 4 o'clock in the afternoon, at a cafe at Great Windmill-street—he did not understand English, and I do not speak French—a gentleman there said something to him—I told the gentleman to tell him that I wished him to accompany me to the city—I did not understand what the gentleman said to him—the gentleman is not here—I then took the prisoner to the White Hart, Bishopsgate-street, and from there to the station-house—he produced this watch, the cameo brooch, and the diamonds in the White Hart hotel—the other things were found on his person at the police-station—there were eleven pawnbrokers' duplicates (produced) seven of which relate to diamonds—also a gold watch and chain, which he was wearing—twelve gold rings, not identified—10l. in gold, and 2s. in silver, a stiletto, two albert chains, a pair of spectacles, and a tester for testing gold—that is all.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Are there not some breast pins which you have not told us of? A. Yes; three breast pins—here is a license for a hawker, and a French passport, that were found on him—the twelve rings I found in his pockets—they have nothing to do with this case, nor this watch, nor these pins—he produced them from his pockets at the White Hart hotel—he said he had bought them at a cafe in Great Windmill-street in the way of his trade—he described the person he bought them of—he said he was a shortish man, dark, and that he thought he could find him—I

went with him to the cafe, and we were not able to find the mail there—I took the prisoner to the White Hart—they knew nothing about him there, and they had never seen him—I found that a mfen had been seen there answering the description of a short dark man—I found a quantity of other small jewellery at the prisoner's lodgings—he made no statement about the duplicates.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did he tell you the name of the person from whom he bought these things? A. He said he did not know—his statement was that he bought them in the cafe—he did not give any address of the person from whom he bought them—he did not tell me when he bought them—it was on Thursday, the 29th, that I took him—I believe, to the best of my recollection, he said he bought these on the Monday previous.

ABRAHAM SWINDON . I am assistant to Messrs. Dubree and Tomlinson, pawnbrokers in the Strand—I produce four loose diamonds that were pawned at our establishment on 20th March last—the duplicate I have in my hand corresponds with the one produced by the officer—I took the pledge in from the prisoner—John Baring is the name given on the duplicate—I never saw the prisoner before—looking at him now I have not the slightest doubt of his being the man who came in and pledged the diamonds.

Cross-examined. Q. You gave him 15s.? A. Yes; their value is only 22s.—they are badly cut, and very small.

HERMANN JOEL (re-examined). These four diamonds are my property—they fit into the brooch.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you tried them; can you find any place the diamond will fit? A. I am not a diamond seller.

COURT. Q. You say they will fit in; you mean to say that you believe that is so? A. I believe they fit is—I cannot possibly swear to them positively.

THOMAS DRY . I am assistant to Mr. Harrison, a pawnbroker of Wardour-street, Soho—I produce four loose diamonds pawned at our establishment on 19th March—I took in the pledge—I don't know, but I believe the prisoner to be the man who pawned them, by his general appearance—the duplicate that has been produced refers to the duplicate I have here—they were pledged in the name of George Back—I think they were pledged in the morning part; it was before dusk.

Cross-examined. Q. How much are they worth? A. About four sovereigns.

RICHARD ORTON . I am assistant to Mr. James Best, pawnbroker, 32, Great Queen-street, Lincoln's-inn-fields—I produce two brilliants pledged on 23d March by the prisoner for 2l.—this duplicate that the officer produced refers to that property—the diamonds were pawned in the name of John Back, and are worth about 2l. 5s.

Cross-examined. Q. From the same brooch? A. No, another brooch—I only speak to the best of my belief; I cannot swear positively—the brooch to which they belong has not been found—it is not here.

WILLIAM STEPHENS . I am a pawnbroker—I produce four brilliants pledged on 19th March for 1l. in the name of Piccola—I believe the person who pledged them to be the prisoner—they were pledged on a Monday evening.

Cross-examined. Q. Is this duplicate in your own writing? A. Yes—I think they were pledged about 6 o'clock in the evening.

THOMAS DAVIDSON . I am assistant to George Smith, King's-road, Chelsea—I produce two loose diamonds pawned, on 23d March, for 2l. 5s.—the ticket which the officer produced refers to that property—they were pledged in the

name of Blake—in my judgment and belief they were pawned by the prisoner—I cannot swear positively.

HERMAN JOEL (re-examined.) To the best of my knowledge and belief these are my property.

Cross-examined. Q. They belong to another brooch that is not here I suppose? A. Yes.

GEORGE REED . I am assistant to Mr. Henry Harrison of Wardour-street, Soho. I produce five diamonds pledged at our establishment on 19th and 27th March; three on the 12th—this ticket produced refers to that property—they were pledged in the name of John Piccola—I cannot state what time it was, nor by whom they were pledged—there were also two diamonds pledged on 27th March for 2l.—the ticket produced refers to them—they were pledged in the name of William Backman.

HERMANN JOEL (re-examined.) To the best of my belief these are mine, and part of the property stolen.

Cross-examined. Q. How many of the thirty diamonds are recovered? A. I don't remember how many.

COURT. Q. You say that the three small ones are part of the small brooch produced? A. Yes.

LEWIS ANDRE . I am a tobacconist at Marlborough-street—I bought these ear rings (produced) on the 27th March from the prisoner, and gave 14l. for them.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you a Frenchman? A. Yes—I knew the prisoner as a licensed man—he goes to coffee-houses to sell things—it was not in a French coffee-house that I bought them; it was in my own house—I met him in the street—I had seen him before, and known him as a dealer and a hawker, and he asked me to buy something of him—he gave me a receipt—parties do go to French cafes to sell their goods, and they also ga there to buy—a Frenchman coming over with a lot of jewellery would go to a French cafe—I don't know whether he might meet a purchaser who wanted to sell the articles again to get a bargain—one Frenchman will sell to another.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. You knew him by the name of Blanchet? A. Yes, and he gave me his card—his name is Blanchet—(Receipt read)—"Received from Monsieur Andre, the sum of 14l. for a pair of diamond earrings. I acknowledge to have received from Monsieur Andre, the sum of 14l. sterling. Signed, Louis Blanchet."

HERMANN JOEL (re-examined.) The value of these earrings is 15l.

MARCUS WILLIAM MORRIS . I am the proprietor of the White Hart hotel—I heard of this robbery, and gave information to the police—the night before the robbery a foreigner came in there with another man—I saw them both leave the house on the night of the robbery, and never saw them again—I cannot give any description of them, except that one was a foreigner, a middle Hized man with brown hair—I only saw the other man go out.

JURY. Q. Would there be any possibility of the prisoner getting into the room where the property was; getting in and out without being seen? A. Certainly—we are never on the watch much at hotels; it could easily have been effected.

MR. RIBTON to JOHN LEONARD. Q. Did you find these duplicates upon him? A. Yes—he did not make any statement about them; I am sure of that

GUILTY of Receiving. Confined Eighteen Months.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-440
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

440. THOMAS WILSON (23), JOHN BROOKS (21), and JOHN WILLIAMS (21) , Robbery on Susannah Ditchman, and stealing from her person a gold watch and chain, value 12l. her property.

MR. PLATT conducted the Prosecution.

SUSANNAH DITCHMAN . I am single, and live with my father at 1, Thurlow-place, Hackney-road—on the afternoon of 25th April, about half-past one o'clock, I was walking alone in Love-lane, Dalston, and passed the three prisoners—I am sure they are the men—just as I passed, one of them, I can't tell which, caught me by the throat, and took me off my feet, and the other two robbed me—I don't know where Brooks stood, but he took my watch from me, which was attached by a chain which went round my neck—the chain was pulled violently, and broke in two pieces—part of it remained round my neck.

COURT. Q. Did you see what was going on while the one held your throat? A. Yes; I saw Brooks and Wilson in front of me while the other had his arm round my neck—they also took hold of my dress, I think, to feel my pocket—I can't say which took hold of it—the man who had his arm round my throat said something to another man—the man with the watch ran away—I saw Miss Pulman, a young lady, there; she was very near me—the men all ran together—I am quite sure those are the three men—I afterwards went to the police-station; I saw them there and identified them—this watch (produced) is mine; and it is the watch and part of the chain which I had on that day—the other part of the—Ihain was left on my neck.

Wilson. Q. Were you hurt in any way when I took you round the neck? A. No.

Brooks. Q. Can you take your oath that I am the man whom you saw in front of you? A. Yes.

AMELIA PILMAN . I am a dress-maker of 15, Buckingham-road, Kingsland—on this day I was in Love-lane, and saw the three prisoners and another man standing together there—I am sure they are the men—as I passed them, one of them, I don't know which, pushed against me—that made me turn round, and I then saw Miss Ditchman walking towards my way—I had then got about half a dozen yards from the men—I heard a scuffling—I turned round and saw Williams with his arm round Miss Ditchman's neck—the other two prisoners and the man were quite close in front of her—I ran up to them, and saw Brooks break her watch off, and the chain was left hanging—they all four then ran away—I called out, "Stop thief," and I and Miss Ditchman ran after them—they turned a corner, and we lost sight of them, but only for a moment—I saw them stopped—I am sure they are the same men—they were taken to the station, and I went after them—I there saw this watch taken out of Wilson's trousers pocket.

Wilson. Q. Are you sure you saw me in Love-lane? A. Yes; quite certain.

Brooks. Q. Were you not asked at the station whether you saw the man that took the watch, and that took the lady by the neck? A. No—I was not half a dozen yards from the lady at the time of the transaction.

Williams. When she was asked by the inspector, she pointed out the one who held her by the throat. Witness. I don't recollect anything of the sort.

MARY ANN CORNISH . I am the wife of Robert Cornish, a labourer, of 4, Middle-street, Shacklewell—on this day I saw the three prisoners pass my door, all running—I heard Wilson say to Brooks, "Give it to me, and I will sling it you b—y fool"—upon that, I saw Brooks take a watch out of his

waistcoat pocket—I could not see it quite, but it was gold—he gave it to Wilson—I ran after them—I did not lose sight of them at all—I saw an officer, and pointed them out to him, and he went after them—I said, "There they are; that is the one that has got the watch"—I am sure they are the three men that passed my window.

Wilson. Q. Did you not lose sight of me? A. Not for a moment; as soon as you turned, I saw the policeman—I lost sight of Williams for a moment, but not the other two.

Brooks. Q. Where were you standing when I was taken into custody? A. Right at the corner of the lane—I saw you taken, and I ran up to the policeman and told him you were the man—you passed my door, turned to the right, then to the left, and then to the right again, and that is where the policeman caught you.

Williams. Q. Were you near me or did you see me given in charge to the policeman? A. You were not taken at the same place as the others; you were taken soon after—when you were all running, you crossed over to the right.

MR. PLATT. Q. Did you see them all taken, though at different times? A. Yes; if one of them got out of my sight it was for not above a minnute—although he did get out of my sight, I am quite sure these are the three men.

JAMES PLAYFORD (Policeman, N 455). I was passing, and from something the last witness said to me, I ran after the persons she pointed out—they were walking then—I caught Brooks—before this, Miss Pulman also had said something to me—I told Brooks that he must consider himself a prisoner for taking a watch from a lady—he said he knew nothing about it—I then took him to the station—immediately after that, I saw the two other men brought there in custody—I searched Wilson, and found that watch and this rope (produced) in his trousers pocket, and there was a portion of a guard chain attached to the watch.

Wilson. Q. Did you take that watch out of my pocket? A. I did; you did not give it into my hand.

Brooks. Q. Did not you say to the inspector, "The two men were in the house, and I think they have left the property there," and then did not Wilson pull out the watch? A. That is not so—I searched you before the watch was produced—Wilson and Williams were looking on—the inspector ordered another policeman to search Williams—Wilson was then standing on your right—Wilson, when he took the watch out of his pocket, said, "I may as well give it up."

Williams. Q. Which prisoner did you search first? A. Brooks—I did not say, "I will go back, I think the property is left in the garden"—I never offered to go away at all.

MR. PLATT. Q. Were you in the act of searching him when he pulled out the watch? A. Yes; and he had heard the orders for the others to be searched—I did not miss either of them for more than two or three minutes—I am sure they are the men.

JOHN WHITLEY . I am a labourer, and live at John-street, Shacklewell—on the day in question I caught Wilson—he was running when I first caught sight of him, and I ran after him—he was near a fence—he drew the watch from his pocket, and I saw the chain hanging down—he saw over his shoulder that I was running after him, and he put it in his pocket again—he tried to leap over the fence, but I caught him as he was doing so—I saw the watch taken from him at the station-house.

Brooks. Wilson was in a garden when he took him. Witness. He was on the top of a fence—he would soon have been in a garden if I had not stopped him—I did not hear the policeman say, "I will go back to the garden and see if I can find the property."

JAMES THORN (Policeman, N 485). I took Williams—I told him the charges—he said nothing—I had seen the three prisoners previously that day pass my window together, about twenty minutes to 2 o'clock in company—I saw policeman, N 455, running after them; I joined him, and saw him take Brooks.

Brooks. Q. Did you ever state anything about Wilson and I being in a house together? A. No.

The prisoners' statements before the Magistrate were here read as follows:—"Brooks says, 'That woman has taken a false oath against me.' Williams says, 'I am a deserter from the military trade.' Wilson says, 'The lady states that we never hurt her; it would be no violence used if the lady was not hurt.'"

WILSON— GUILTY .— Four Years' Penal Servitude.

BROOKS— GUILTY .**†— Ten Years' Penal Servitude.

WILLIAMS— GUILTY .— Three Years' Penal Servitude.

THIRD COURT.—Thursday, May 10th, 1860.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Seventh Jury.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-441
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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441. HARRIET WALKER (35) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. COOKE conducted the Prosecution.

CAROLINE LIPPINCOTT . I keep a general shop in Devonshire-street, Commercial-road—On 19th April the prisoner came in the evening for half an ounce of tea, and a quarter of a pound of sugar—she gave me half-a-crown, and I gave her change 2s. 3 1/4 d.—I put the half-crown in the till—I had no other—in about an hour I looked in the till, and found the half-crown was bad—I had not put any other half-crown in that till—I took it out of the till and put it on one side, in a safe place, and kept it there till I gave it to the policeman—on 21st April the prisoner came again for the same articles—I knew her again—she gave me a half-crown; I said to her, "This is bad, and I took two of them on Thursday night, and you are the same person that gave me one on Thursday night for tea and sugar"—she said, "I have never been in your shop before"—I gave the prisoner in charge, and gave the coins to the policeman.

Prisoner. Q. You said you did not know it was bad till you showed it to the baker? A. I found it was bad, but I showed it to the baker on Friday evening, and he said it was bad.

ROBERT PAYNE (Policeman, A 477). I was called, and took the prisoner in custody—I produce the two half-crowns—the prisoner said she had never been in the shop before—I asked her where she got the half-crown; she said she was a needlewoman, and got it for her work—she first said she lived in the neighbourhood, and then she said at 15, Middle-row, Paddington—she afterwards said at No. 7, but I could not find that she was known there—she was searched; there was 2 1/2 d. found on her, and some potatoes, and a reticule.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These half-crowns are bad, and from the same mould.

Prisoner's Defence. I was not aware it was bad.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-442
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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442. MARY ANN WILLIAMS (29), was indicted for a like offence.

MR. COOKE conducted the Prosecution.

ANN ALLINGTON . On Tuesday evening, 10th April, the prisoner came to my shop for a quarter of a pound of boiled beef—it came to 2 1/2d.—she tendered a 5s. piece; I took it up and found it was bad—I told her she knew it was bad—I kept it and gave it to the policeman—Nettleford was in my shop before she was allowed to go.

Prisoner. I never was in the shop.

GEORGE NETTLEFORD (City-policeman 648). I was in the shop on the evening of 10th April—I heard from the last witness that the prisoner had passed a 5s. piece—I asked the prisoner where she got it, and whether she had any more—she told me she had not, and showed me an empty portemonnaie—she was allowed to go—it was about half-past 11 o'clock at night—that shop is four or five hundred yards from Sandys-row.

RACHEL JACOBS . I keep a grocer's shop in Sandys-row—on Tuesday night, 10th April, the prisoner came in about a quarter before 12 o'clock—she asked for some tea and sugar—it came to 2 3/4 d.—she gave me a 5s. piece—I gave her 4s. 9 1/4 d.; she took the articles and left the shop—I showed the 5s. piece to my husband, and it was bad—I ran after the prisoner and caught her—she said she was not in the shop—I called a policeman and gave her in charge—a little girl picked up some tea and sugar that I had sold her—it was in my own paper—I gave the crown to the policeman.

Prisoner. Q. You put it in a bowl with other money. A. No; I laid it on the counter, in no bowl.

JOHN GRAVE (City-policeman 56). I took the prisoner; I produce a crown I got from the first witness, and one from Mrs. Jacobs—I picked up this sugar where the prisoner was standing, and a little girl picked up this tea—I found nothing on the prisoner but this empty poriemonnaie.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These crowns are both counterfeit and from the same mould.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Month.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-443
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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443. ELIZABETH ABRAHAM (19), was indicted for a like offence.

MR. COOKE conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES GRAINGER . I keep the Plough beer-shop in Sidney-street—On 2d April the prisoner came, and called for a pint of ale—she gave me in payment a counterfeit crown piece—I detected it immediately she put it down—I said it was a counterfeit—I sent for a policeman and gave it him, and gave the prisoner in charge—I attended the police-court and she was discharged—she gave the name of Sarah Brunnell.

SAMUEL WHITE (Policeman, K 471). I took the prisoner and received this coin—she was discharged on 9th April.

ELIZABETH HAYWARD . On 27th April the prisoner came to my brother's shop; he is a baker—she asked for two halfpenny tarts—I served her—she gave me a 2s. piece—I gave it to my brother, and he spoke to the prisoner.

THOMAS HAYWARD . I keep a baker's shop in New Inn-yard—On 27th April my little sister gave me a florin—I found it was bad—I came into the shop and saw the prisoner—I asked her where she got it, and I told her

it was bad—she said she got it from a gentleman in Shoreditch—I gave the prisoner in custody, and gave the florin to the policeman.

JOSEPH BOND (Policeman, G 119). I took the prisoner, and produce the florin—she was searched and nothing was found on her.

GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

FOURTH COURT, Thursday, May 10th, 1860.


Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq. and the Third Jury.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-444
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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444. CHARLOTTE NASH (46) , Feloniously forging and uttering a promissory note for payment of 1000l., with intent to defraud.

MR. BROWNE conducted the Prosecution.

HORACE JOHN TEMPLE . I am a solicitor, residing at Duke-street, Manchester-square—in consequence of communications I had received, I called upon the prisoner on 31st March, at Twyford's-buildings, in reference to a promissory note for 1000l.—some conversation passed between us—the name of Nash was on the door—I asked for Mrs. Nash, and the prisoner came forward—she represented herself as being married—some conversation passed as to her husband—there was some difficulty about dealing with the note—she wanted to deal with it without the assent of her husband, and I told her that that would be impossible; without the husband's indorsement nothing could be done with the note—on the Monday afterwards, 2nd April I think, she came to my house—she said she had spoken to her husband, and that he had consented to indorse the note—I had not then seen the note; only a copy—I then told her that it would be necessary to ascertain the genuineness of the signature—she said that she had several letters from Mr. Twyford, with which I could compare the signature to the note—I told her that if she would bring me the note and the letters, I would then see further into it—in the evening she brought me this note (produced) and this letter (produced)—the note ia dated "February 16th, 1858;" and signed "Samuel Twyford"—she said, when she brought these, that she had brought me the bill, and a letter from Mr. Twyford; that she could not find any more—the promissory note is for 1000l., payable by two instalments—she gave as a reason for the genuineness of the note, that she had received 500l. upon it, from Mr. Twyford, and had indorsed the receipt on the back of the bill—she showed me this indorsement—during this conversation she constantly referred to Mr. Twyford as the ex-Magistrate of Bow-street, and she told me that if I went to Bow-street I could easily ascertain that the signature was genuine—she said that she and Mr. Twyford were cousins, I think, and that after her mother's death, Mr. Twyford had informed her that he had 1000l., belonging to her mother, in his hands; that she should not have known it had not Mr. Twyford told her Bot and that he gave her this note in discharge of it; in settlement of the matter—upon looking at the letter I saw at once that it was a vulgar forgery; that the person who had written it, could not spell—I told her if she would leave it I would make further inquiries, which I did.

Cross-examined by MR. MC INTYRE. Q. However the letter was misspelt, was the note spelt all properly? A. Yes; it looks as if it had been prepared by a legal man—it ia dated February, 1858—the date of the

stamp is 1858—I had never seen Mrs. Nash before I went there—I went there by the direction of my client, my father, Mr. Alexander Semple, to whom she had applied—in consequence of what he told me I went to inquire for Mrs. Nash—I had the copy of the whole of this, and the indorsement, when I went there—I am sure she said that she had received the 500l. from Mr. Twyford—I asked her about her name in consequence of seeing the name of Hunter on the back of the bill—she said that her name had been Hunter, but that she had taken the name of Nash in consequence of some property having come to her—she did not say that her name was now Nash as she was a married woman—I did not ask whether she was a married woman—I understood that she was Mrs. Nash, and I said it would require her husband's indorsement—she never told me that she was a married woman—she spoke of her husband; she never said what his name was—she never said whether her husband had changed her name from Hunter to Nash, or anything of the sort—she simply said that she had taken one of the names, I forget which, in consequence of having come into some property—I had no difficulty in finding her house from what my client had told me—it was when she brought the bill and the letter, on Monday, 2d April, that she told me I might go to Bow-street to inquire about it.

Cross-examined by MR. BROWNE. Q. Do you know anything about which name she took, except from her representation? A. No; I did not know whether or not she was a married woman, except from her speaking of her husband.

The promissory note was for 1000l., payable by two instalments of 500l. each; the first on 1st June, 1859; the second on 1st June, 1860. Signed, "Samuel Twyford, Trotton House: Bated, February 6th, 1859." Letter read: "February 16th, 1860.—"Dear Charlotte—I received your note but was much mpprised at it; you told me that the gentleman would keep all things quiet, and I told you that if he did I would make you a present of 100l. in June to give him; you said that you got your money in May & that you would take it back; my dear girl I should not like any one to come here but you yourself; I have sent you a small parcel with our loves; belive me to he, your affectionate cousin, Samuel Twyford.")

SAMUEL TWYFORD, ESQ . I was for many years Magistrate at Bow-street—I retired about 1846—I resided at one time at Trotton House, near Medhurst—it is six or seven years since I left there—the signature and indorsement to this bill are not mine—I never authorized any person to sign this bill for me—I never authorized the prisoner to sign any bill for me—I never heard of the prisoner till this matter—I never wrote this letter—I have some buildings in Lincoln's-inn-fields, called Twyford's Buildings—No. 5, where the prisoner is living, is my property—the name of my tenant there, I think, is Southgate—I never paid the prisoner 500l.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you sign your name "Samuel Twyford" in full, or "S. Twyford," or an abbreviated Samuel? A. I cannot tell, all three ways—this note is not a bit like my writing—I do not know any people named Hunter, or Charlotte Hunter.

CHARLES MAINE . I am a miscellaneous dealer—in March last, the prisoner gave me this bill or note—(This purported to be a promissory note for 500l., payable to Lady Charlotte Hunter, daughter of Lady Helen Hunter, or bearer; dated 5th March, 1859. Signed "H. M. Clifford, 15, Eaton-place, Belgrave-square:" indorsed "niece of Admiral John Hunter.")

Cross-examined. Q. You live very near her? A. I do; I have known her probably five or six years—I have never known a man named Noel

or a man who represented his name to be Noel—I don't know a man who delivered that promissory note to Mrs. Nash—I never heard of such a thing—she told me that Mr. Henry, the Magistrate at Bow-street, gave it to her—when she brings me notes like this, with these names, and shows me piles of documents from all the Aristocracy in the country, I could not know better—she said that Mr. Henry the Magistrate, was waiting at her house to give her cash for it—I gave her my bill for 500l.—I knew where she lived, and that the name of Nash was on the door—she represented herself to be an heiress in her own right, and said that she had been to the Queen twice—I have had other bill transactions with her; never any before this year—I do not discount bills—she came to me in consequence of her having dealt with me—she asked me if I knew any person who would discount the bill—she has bought a loo-table, and a very large box, and I think twelve or fourteen pillows, and some ornaments—I knew what business she carried on; she dealt in wardrobes—it was on 17th January that she became Lady Charlotte Hunter; never before, to my knowledge—she produced me a note of Mr. Twyford's for 1000l.; not the one produced, but another one—I believed the note of Colonel Clifford's to be a genuine document—I sent to that address and my lad came back and said that Mr. Clifford had lived there some years ago—I do not know this Mr. Noel—I fancy I saw his name in the newspapers; at the Marlborough-police-court—I never received any promissory notes, for large or small sums, in my life, from anybody but the prisoner—I mean to swear that—the first note she gave me was for 1000l., by Mr. Twyford—I believed in it—I don't know any man in the Blackfriars-road who has sent me promissory notes—I have heard of him in the newspaper reports; never before the examination at the Magistrate's.

MR. BROWNE. Q. You say she gave you a note for 1000l. of Mr. Twyford's; do you mean this note? A. No; another one, with a promise at the back of it to pay 100l. for delay; to become due in May—she also showed me a note for 500l. of Mr. Twyford's—neither of those was the one produced to-day—I have been four months trying to get money for these bills—17th April last, was the first time I knew her as Lady Hunter—I know nothing about this Mr. Noel except what I have heard.

HENRY MORGAN CLIFFORD . I reside at 1, Queen's-gate, Hyde-park—up to four years ago I resided at 15, Eaton-place—the signature to this bill is not mine—I did not authorize any person to sign this bill for me—I did not authorize the prisoner to sign any bill for me—I know nothing at all of her—I never saw or heard of her.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know anything about the persons mentioned in that bill? A. Nothing at all.

WILLIAM HURLOCK . I am servant to Mr. Bouverie, who has lived at 15, Eaton-place since 1856—Colonel Clifford lived there before—there is no other person that I can speak to as having lived there—the prisoner called on one occasion and asked for Mr. Clifford—on my telling her that Colonel Clifford had not lived there for two or three years, she disputed my word; she said she did not mean Colonel Clifford, but H. M. Clifford—I said they were the same person—there was another person with her—this was about six weeks or two months ago, I think; I could not state precisely.

Cross-examined. Q. Was the person with her, a man or a woman? A. A man.

JONATHAN WHICHER . I am an Inspector of the detective police—in

consequence of information I received I went to the prisoner's house, 5, Twyford's-buildings, on 26th of May last—I saw the prisoner there; I said, "Is your name Nash?" she said, "Yes; it is"—I said, "I am a police officer"—I had the forged bill in my hand—I said, "I believe you presented this bill to Mr. Semple, of Duke-street, Manchester-square—I believe I said "presented"—she said" Yes; I did"—I said," I wish to ask you a question; you can do as you please about answering it; where did you get the bill from?" she said, "I received it from a Mr. Noel"—I said, "What is Mr. Noel, and where does he live in she said, "I don't know what he is, but he lives in Church-street, Blackfriars-road"—I said, "Under what circumstances did you receive it?" she said, "I received it in discharge of a debt" or, "in payment of a debt"—she did not say for how much—I said, "You must put on your bonnet and shawl, and go with me to Church-street"—I took her there in a cab, and asked her to point out the house where Mr. Noel lived, as she had said she should be able to show me the house—she pointed out No. 24 as the house where he lived, and where she had been to see him—I made inquiries there, with her, but there was no such person known there at that time, nor had been living there, as far as I could ascertain; I did not search the premises; I made inquiries of all the persons in the house—she afterwards said that she had advanced 200l. on the bill.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you been looking after Mr. Noel since? A. I asked her if she could give me any clue as to where I could find him—she said "No;" she met him occasionally, but could not tell me where I could find him.

COURT. Q. Did she seem to be in any doubt about the house? A. No; I took her in a cab, and she got out and walked to No. 24, and said, "This is the house"—I asked her if she was certain, and she said, "Yes; this is the house, this is where I came to"—she did not go into the house with me—I called the people down—I asked the questions about him in her presence—she heard what took place.

WILLIAM JONES . I live at 23, Church-street, Blackfriars-road, and rent the house, No. 24—there is no person named Noel, who lives there, or has lived there—I have rented the house from 29th September last—I took possession of the shop I am in now, last March twelvemonth—I know of no man named Noel in the neighbourhood.

Cross-examined. Q. What lodgers have you had there since September? have you had any that have lived there and gone away? A. Yes; two—Mr. and Mrs. Law were one party, and Mr. and Mrs. Hart; they went away last week—Mr. and Mrs. Law went four or five months ago—I do not know what either party were—the only time I ever saw the prisoner was when she came with the Inspector—I have uever seen her there before—those are the only lodgers that have been with me sinco September, that have lodged at either house—I do not know whether persons used to come to see Mr. Law or Mr. Hart—I have not the slightest notion as to what business either Mr. Law or Mr. Hart carried on—Mr. Law had the first-floor front room, and when they left, Mr. Hart had it—I don't know what has become of either the one or the other.

MATTHEW HIGGINBOTHAM . I am a tailor and draper—I know the prisoner's writing very well—the signature, "Charlotte Hunter," to this receipt for 500l. is in her writing—I do not know whose writing the "Samuel Twyford" is.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you known her any time? A. Yes; some years—she has got her livelihood by buying and selling wardrobes—I always

understood so—we have had a good deal of dealings together—I have been the seller, but I have not received anythiug—I have not received my money—that is getting on for 4 years—I have known her longer than that, but have not been acquainted with her—I have seen her write scores of times.

GUILTY of uttering. Confined Six Months.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-445
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

445. ELIZA PECK. (43) , Feloniously forging and uttering an order for the payment of 16l., with intent to defraud.

MR. RIGHBY conducted the Prosecution.

EMMA PREBBLE . I am single, and live at Barlow-street—I have known the prisoner about 2 years—I lived with her from the time of my first acquaintance with her up to last May—I am the mother of an illegitimate child, which was born on 4th July, 1859—I told the prfeoner that I would give her half of what I received from the father of the child, who was them living in India—I received 10l. from him—the prisoner had all that to dispose of as she thought proper—I ceased to live with her because I was very uncomfortable with her—she went once to nurse a lady whose name I believe, was Mrs. Gibson, at Gloucester-terrace, Walworth—that was about last April or May—in October the prisoner was living at home with Mr. Peck—I wrote to India to acknowledge the receipt of the first 10l., and was expecting a letter with another remittance—I remember the prisoner coming to me on 17th October—we had arranged that the letter should be sent to Mrs. Peck, at Mrs. Council's house—when the prisoner came to me, she said, "I have a letter for you;" she said that she had opened the outside envelope addressed to her, but not mine, the inside one—these two envelopes (produced) are the two that were brought to me by the prisoner—I said I thought it very strange that there was no letter—she said she had brought them to me as she received them—I found a 10l. note only in the envelope addressed to me—I gave it to Mr. Halls to get cashed, and when I got it cashed I gave 5l. of the money to Mrs. Peck—I asked Mr. Halls to write my name on the back of the note—I know the prisoner's writing—I have seen her write several times—I am sure that the indorsement on this order (produced) is in her writing—(Read:)—"Oriental Bank Corporation, Colombo; 13th September. On demand please to honour the draft of Miss Emma Prebble, 16l. equivalent received here from E. Delatouche, Esq. and charge the sum, as advised, to the Oriental Bank Corporation, London. George Duff, manager; Robert Dunlop, accountant. Endorsed; Emma Prebble, 6 York-street, London-road."—The outer envelope was addressed:—"Mrs. Peck, care of Mrs. Gibson, 9 Gloucester-terrace, Finchley-terrace, Walworth." (Inside were writtten these words, "Comiug home." The inner envelope was addressed:—"Miss E. Prebble.")—I am quite sure that I never gave the prisoner authority to write my name to that order, or to write my name at all.

Cross-examined by MR. MCDONNELL. Q. When did you firet become acquainted with the prisoner? A. About 2 years ago—I don't remember the month—it was the evening the banquet was given for General Pelissier—I remember the place where I became acquainted with her—it was just opposite the United Service-club; late at night—the prisoner spoke to me—she was alone—I said I was distressed—I did not say I had no shelter or food, because I gave her refreshment that evening; I told her that I was with child—I told her I was in a great deal of trouble—she told me I could have shelter at her house—I did not go homo with her that night, I did the next day at 2 o'clock—I stayed there about a month before I was confined—I believe the prisoner is not married—she lived with that man (a

man in the court)—I never knew him go to sea—he told me that he went to sea—I do not know that he is her husband—I have seen him take his meals there, sleep there, and be a husband, in all respects, as far as I could see—the prisoner told me that he had a wife—no one was present when she told mo that—I said that I was with child by a person named La Touche—the prisoner, after I had made that statement, told me that I ought to write to him for support—the prisoner never wrote, by my request and in my name, to La Touche, in India, for money—I was confined in the workhouse—I remember a letter coming one morning from India, enclosing, an order for 10l.—I had been ill, but was then well enough to sit up—I know Mrs. Jolly—I did not, in her presence, give the prisoner authority to put my name at the baik of that 10£ order, being too unwell to go out myself—the prisoner never by my directions, wrote to La Touche on my behalf—I think I had been confined about four months, before a remittance came from India—I received the money last May or April; I cannot refer to it, because the prisoner stole the first letter from me, the one enclosing the 10l. order—she told me it was destroyed; that the boy had torn it up—the prisoner went to the bank, and brought back part of the money for that order—I and my child lived at Mrs. Peck's for about four months after my confinement—I was confined in July, 1858—I left her about six weeks after, and went to a situation which Mrs. Peck got me—it was not at estminster-bridge—with the exception of the time that I was in this situation, I was at Mrs. Peck's—I remained in that situation about six weeks, as long as Mrs. Phillips, the lady, required my services—I lived at the foot of Westminster-bridge with a Mr. and Mrs. Kremer—I was not discharged from there—I said I should leave—I was not discharged from there, charged with stealing soap and combs—my boxes were not examined—I will swear that Mrs. Kremer did not discharge me—I said I should leave myself—I left Mrs. Peck's before I was confined—she turned me out of doors in the daytime—I afterwards went to the workhouse—Mrs. Peck said she had had a letter from my friends, and we had some demur about it, and she turned me out there and then—I do not remember going home one morning rather early with some money in my hand, and a bag—I never was turned out in the morning—I never tried to enter the house with a man—I swear that I never took a person to Mrs. Peck's house, and that she refused us admission—I never authorized Mrs. Peck to sign my name to this order—the order is for 16l., and she brought me 10l.—we never made any agreement—she received whatever money I had—she received a great deal of money from my friends—I was allowed 5s. a week for a long time from my brothers and sisters—the prisoner had that 5s.—the child was at Mre. Peck's all the time that I was—I was not to pay her half-a-crown a week; we made no agreement—I told her if I received any money from India, I would pay her half—she had all the money that I had from home—I cannot say how much money I received during the time I was lodging at Mrs. Peck's with my child—the only agreement was that of whatever I got, I was to give her half—I was expecting to have money from India, and through that she sheltered me—I have seen Mrs. Peck write when she has given me a receipt for 5l.—I have seen her write letters to her friends—when I wrote to India, Mrs. Peck knew of it—the gentleraan sent for the registration of the baby's birth—Mr. Gibson went to the workhouse; he had a good deal of trouble, and he got the registration—Mrs. Jolly addressed the first letter fonue—it was written at Mrs. Jolly's—the second was written at Gloucester-terrace,

Walworth-road, where the prisoner was nursing, and where the letters were to be addressed—I wrote the second letter myself—Mr. Gibson, I believe, addressed it—I did not see him; I heard he was to—I did not ask him to address it—I will swear that I did not ask Birs. Peck to address that second letter—I did not see it addressed before it was posted—Mrs. Peck knew that I was writing to India to Mr. La Touche—she read the letter that I had written—during the whole of the time I was there, I did not receive any monies from India, except the first order for 10l., and the 10l. of the second order for 16l.—I can swear that Mrs. Peck and I did not agree that 12s. per week was to be the charge for the lodging of myself and child, and our maintenance—we used to take our food at the same table—I occupied a room on the same floor—I left last May—I don't know how much money I paid Mrs. Peck while, I was there—I gave her the first 10l. that came; since then I have given her 5l., and 2l. 10s.—I sweer that she has never asked me for 10l. 11s. 3d., as the balance of money due to her for the lodging of myself and child—my child was not taken from me by the doctor's orders, after I left the hospital—I was with the child the whole of the time that I was with Mrs. Peck—the child was not, at any time after I left the hospital, taken from me.

MR. RIGBY. Q. Had you an allowance from home A. 5s. a week—Mrs. Peck used to receive, that every fortnight—I received money also from my aunts now and then—Mrs. Peck had every farthing of what. I had while I was with her—when I first became acquainted with her, she was in very great distress—she told me she had had no food for two days—I took her and gave her some ale and pork pie—when I went to her, they had not a mouthful of food; and I sent for some tea for them—there is not the slightest pretence for saying that I was discharged from the service of Mrs. Kremer for dishonesty—we quarrelled, and I left her at a minute's notice-Mr. Kremer wished me to leave—there is not the slightest truth in saying that Mrs. Peck ever turned me out of doors for taking home a man with me—I have had frequent opportunities of seeing her writing.

COURT. Q. Is there any pretence for insinuating that you gave yourself up to an irregular life after this? A. Mrs. Peck turned me out after this; sent me out on the streets, both before and after the receipt of the 16l. order—she spent the money immediately it came—I am living how in lodgings, at 21,1 think, Barlow-street, Marylebone; a private house kept by Mrs. Kendall, a widow lady.

WILLIAM DAVIDSON . I am cashier to the Oriental Bank Corporation—this is an order received from our correspondent at Colombo—it is a genuine order on our bank for the payment of 10l.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you an order for 10l., payable to Mrs. Prebble in October, 1859, sent from India by La Touche? A. I have not—my attention has not been called to an order for 10l. in 1859, drawn in favour of Mrs. Prebble in England, by La Touche in India—we have hundreds from Colombo—this order for 16l. has been presented and paid; I do not know to whom—I did not pay it myself—I can tell from our books in what shape it was paid—the gentleman who paid it is here.

JOHN GRAY . I am a clerk in the Oriental Bank Corporation—I don't remember the circumstance of this order being presented for payment—it has been paid—I paid it with a 10l. note, and six sovereigns—the number of the note was 53,309, and the date, 19th September, 1859—this: indorsement on the back was on it when I paid it.

COURT. Q. Is it "payable to order"? A. No, it does not mention "to order"—it is payable to Emma Prebble.

Cross-examined. Q. That is sent by E. De La Touche? A. Yes—I make entries of cash payments—the book is ruled so as to give a separate column to each name, and to refer to it by alphabet—I cannot tell whether that is the only remittance sent by De La Touche; the book will not tell—this is the only order that was brought under my notice.

COURT. Q. You could get the order for 10l., if there was such a thing? A. No doubt.

RICHARD ADYE BAILY . I am clerk in the accountants bank-note office, of the Bank of England—I produce a note agreeing with the description given by the preceding witness.

Cross-examined. Q. What are your duties at the bank I have you charge of any ledger or journal? A. No, not in particular—one part of my duty is to produce notes when required.

EDWARD HALLS . I am a chemist's assistant—I live in Great Barlow-street, Marylebone—I remember, 17th October last, Miss Prebble asking me to get cash for a 10l. note—I got it—I should know ray indorsement again on the note—at her request I wrote my name on the back of it—this is my indorsement.

Cross-examined. Q. Where is the place you are at? A. Dorset-street, Portman-square—I know the prosecutrix—I am married—I am not aware that my wife is alive—I cannot tell the exact date from when I have known the prosecutrix; but I should say from March last year—I have never, that I am aware of, quarrelled with the prisoner—I have certainly not directed the prosecutrix to prosecute her—I have not a family—the prosecutrix and I are living together as man and wife—when I found out the fraud, I certainly advised the prosecutrix to prosecute Mrs. Peck—I did not instigate her to do so—I told her it was necessary for her protection to do so; and by her permission, I applied to Mr. Cooper, the attorney—I do not know that by the direction of the prosecutrix, the prisoner went and got 10l., the amount of an order sent by La Touche from India—soon after I became acquainted with the prosecutrix, I knew that money had been received from Mr. La Touche, but I never saw anything of the kind—Mrs. Kendall keeps the house we live in—she has been there some years—I don't know how many live in the house—Ionly occupy one apartment—I have seen two or three persons there; both men and women—I cannot tell anything about them; they are quite strangers to me—I am out all the day; I don't see them at all in the day, only occasionally if I happen to go in—I have seen them at night certainly, when I have gone in—I have seen them come in between 10 and 11 o'clock at night—I generally leave the establishment I am in, about half-past 10.

COURT. Q. Is Mrs. Kendall's house a brothel? A. Certainly not—it is a well conducted house, as far as I know—I have only been there a fortnight—I cannot say that I don't know about my wife's being alive or dead—I have not seen her for eighteen months—I have passed her in the street—she deserted me in 1854—the truth is that I discovered something unpleasant and turned her out—I have been in my present employment about six months—I was in business for myself previous to that, about eighteen months in one place, and three years in Cross-street, Blackfriars-road—my wages are 30s. a week, but sometimes I cannot get it.

SARAH SOPHIA CONNELL . I am the wife of Maurice Connell, of 9, Gloucester-terrace, Finchley-road—iu March I had a lodger named Gibson—the

prisoner was nursing her—she continued with us, I think, five or six weeks—the prisoner asked me for permission to have her letters, directed to my house—I gave her permission—I received the first, tetter last July; the second, I think, was in October, and the third, I think, was in January last—the second letter I took to the prisoner's house and gave it into her own hand—this is the envelope I took to the prisoner—there was something in it—I did not see her open it, but she borrowed a shilling of me at the time, and said she was going to the Oriental Bank, and that I should see her in the evening.

Cross-examined. Q. Did she tell you for whom she was going? A. No; nothing further than that she was going to the Oriental Bank—I know the prisoner—I know nothing against her character in any way whatever—she is an honest respectable person so far as I know—I did not see anything wrong.

MR. RIGBY. Q. Have you seen her frequently during the time you have known her? A. She has been backwards and forwards—I hare not had any opportunity of knowing her general conduct, nor have I ever been to her home.

HENRY JOY (Police-sergeant, C 9). I took the prisoner—I was in plain clothes—I told her I was a sergeant of police, and was authorized to take her in custody for receiving a draft from India, from some gentleman whose name I did not know, signing Emma Prebble's name on the draft, and obtaining 16l. from the bank—she said, "Yes, I know I have done wrong; but I had been authorized to go to the bank previously to receive money also"—she also told me that she had received money from the bank since—I told her I must search her boxes, and that I required some papers, some letters from India—I saw an envelope in her hand; I took it from her and found by the post-mark upon it, that it came from India—I searched the boxes and found two half-sheets of paper—I told her that was not the whole; that I wanted all—upon that, the man that was in the room living with the prisoner, took from her purse a letter which the prpsecutrix stated was written by the gentleman from India.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you tell her you would take her on a charge of forgery? A. Yes; she did not say "Forgery! then I have done wrong"—she said, "I know I did wrong"—I arrested her at 2, Church-street, Soho—I am confident she did not use the word "then"—it was on a former occasion that she said, "I have done so by her directions"—when I told her that she was charged with forging the name of the prosecutrix on an order on the bank, she said that she had drawn money from the bank on former occasions—she did not say, "I have written her name on other occasions;" or anything like it—to the best of my belief she said she had had money from the bank previously, but whether she mentioned any name I won't be positive—she said that the money she had been authorized to receive from the bank on former occasions, was for the maintenance of the child then in the room—she said she had since received a draft from a gentleman—she did not mention any date—she said, "The last draft that was sent to me was sent in my name, and my name was on the draft"—she did not say "Out of that draft I gave her 5l."—she said, "What I have done was for the support of the child"—she did not use the word "justice"—she attempted to conceal the letter from India, because she gave the purse to the man as she thought unperceived by me, and he immediately put it in his pocket—she did not tell me where the prosecutrix lived at the time—I am quite confident that she did not tell me that what she did, was by the authority of Mrs. Prebble.


LEE. I am married, and live at 3, Melford-place—I know the prosecutrix and the prisoner—I knew them both whilst the prosecutrix was living at the prisoner's house—I was present when a letter arrived containing an order for 10l.—Mrs. Prebble and the prisoner were present—Mrs. Prebble asked the prisoner to go to the bank to receive the amount of 10l., and told her to sign her name and to receive the money.

Cross-examined by MR. RIGBY. Q. What are you? A. My husband is a mason—this took place at 27, Crown-street, in the middle of the day—I will swear that the prosecutrix asked the prisoner to sign her name to that order, and to go to the bank and receive the money.

COURT. Q. What were you doing at the time? A. Cleaning out Mrs. Peck's room; scrubbing the boards—there is a bed and a table in the room—the prisoner stood by the door near the middle of the room—I did not notice the ink bottle, it was on the table—the pens lay on the table I believe—I did not look at the things at the time—I did not notice any paper—Mrs. Prebble stood at the window—I can't say who opened the letter—I went down stairs when I had done cleaning—Mrs. Prebble sent me a message and 5s. 6d. of the money, that was when Mrs. Peck came back from the bank—Mrs. Jolly brought the letter into the room from the postman—Mrs. Prebble and Mrs. Peck were both in the room—I saw Mrs. Jolly with the letter in her hand—I cannot say whether she gave it to the prisoner or Mi's. Prebble—I did not see the ink used at all—the letter was opened and sent to the bank a few minutes after—Mrs. Peck wanted a halfcrown to go for the money—Mrs. Prebble had not got it, nor had I—she borrowed the money—I did not hear her borrow it—Mr. Peck first spoke to me about coming here—that was last Sunday morning—I had not, before that, heard of Mrs. Peck being taken into custody—Mr. Peck asked me if I should be able to come down to the court, because Mrs. Peck had been locked up about some money that she had taken from Mrs. Prebble—I said I would come if my husband would give me liberty, because I was just off a sick bed—he said I might as well come if I could—he asked me if I remembered the 10l. order, and I said yes, very well—that was all he said.

The prisoner received a good character.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

NEW COURT.—Friday and Saturday, May 11th and 12th, 1860.

PRESENT—Mr. Ald. COPELAND, M.P.; Mr. RECORDER; Mr. Ald. CUBITT, M.P.; Mr. Ald. HALE; and Mr. Ald. ABBISS.

For the case of Cox and others tried on these days, see Kent Cases.

THIRD COURT.—Friday, May 11th, 1860.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Sixth Jury.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-446
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

Related Material

446. WILLIAM FRANCIS VANDERVELL was again indicted (See page 495) for that he being trustee of certain stock in the London, Brighton and South Coast Railway, value 4,000l., did unlawfully convert the same to his own use, with intent to defraud. No evidence was offered. NOT GUILTY .

Sentence on the former case.—Confined One Month.—He was recommended to Mercy.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-447
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

Related Material

447. JOHN BUCK (21) , Feloniously cutting and wounding James Cuckston with intent to kill and murder him. Second Count, with intent to maim and disable him. Third Count, with intent to do him grievous bodily harm.

MESSRS. POLAND and ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES CUCKSTON . I was sub-warder at the House of Correction—On the morning of 19th April I was in the second yard of the felons' prison, looking over the prisoners, who were scrubbing the yard—the prisoner was one of the men who was doing that—I turned my head towards two prisoners who were at one end of the yard, and spoke to them; and, while doing that, I received a blow on the back of my head from one of the bass brooms—I fell senseless to the ground; I recollect nothing more—the prisoner was on my left—there were other prisoners there, but the prisoner was the only one, as far as I recollect, that had a broom—I came to my senses, when two of the men were lifting me up.

COURT. Q. How long had the prisoner been in prison? A. About a week, I believe—I had not had any quarrel with him.

JOHN RENWICK . I am one of the prisoners in the House of Correction, Cold Bath Fields—On the morning of 19th April I was with some other men cleaning the second yard—I saw the prisoner there, and the last witness; I was three or four yards off him—I had been tying my shoe-lace, and I saw the prisoner strike the sub-warder on the head with the head of a broom which he held with both his hands—lie fell down immediately, and when he was down the prisoner struck him a second blow on the shoulder—I sprang across the yard to seize the prisoner—he receded two or three steps and swung the broom round his head, and said, "Keep off, keep off"—Mr. Meikle, an officer, came up, and Mr. Robertson came—he seized him toy the back of the neck, and I seized him in front.

Prisoner. Q. Could I not have hit another blow? A. Yes.

GEORGE LAWRENCE . I am a prisoner in the House of Correction—I was in the second yard about 9 o'clock—the officer called to some prisoners to clean the yard—I saw the, prisoner amongst them; I saw him strike the officer on his head with the head of the broom—he receded from him about three or four yards—the officer fell down—I did not Bee the prisoner strike him again—he held the broom up, and said "Keep off"—he was then seized and taken.

JOHN GEORGE MEIKLE . I am an officer of Cold Bath Fields Prison—On 19th April I was in the day-room of the second yard—I heard a cry of "Shame, shame," from the other prisoners—I went into the yard and saw Mr. Cuckston sitting on the ground, supported by two prisoners—I saw the prisoner there; he had this broom in his hand swinging it about—he said something, but I did not hear what—Mr. Robertson seized him, and I helped to take him off.

ROBERT ROBERTSON . I am a sub-warder of the House of Correction—On 19th April I followed Mr. Meikle into the yard—I saw Mr. Cuckston lying on his back, and bleeding from a wound in the head—the prisoner was about the middle of the yard, nearly ten feet from him—he had the broom in his hand in a threatening attitude, and said he would knock the firet man down

that came near him—I laid hold of him by the collar—Mr. Meikle and the other witness came up aud secured the prisoner.

HENRY WAKEFIELD . I am surgeon to the Cold Bath Fields House of Correction—On 19th April I was called to attend Mr. Cuckston—I found a wound on the back of his head about two inches long, dividing the scalp to the bone—he was in a partial state of stupor—I dressed the wound and attended him from that time till within the last week—there were rather alarming symptoms at first; he had sickness, and I was apprehensive there might be serious injury to the brain; but by care and attention that was prevented—I considered him in danger for three or four days—I attended him for three weeks—he did not lose much blood—the wound might have been occasioned by a blow from the corner of the head of this broom.

Prisoner's Defence. I had no ill feeling against him, and I should not have done it only I am subject to epileptic fits.

MR. WAKEFIELD (re-examined). On 9th March the prisoner complained of fits, and it is always usual in that case to have them into the dormitory—my warder there says be never saw any fits nor heard of his having any—there is no record of his having had fits, nor has he had any with me—I believe he has been in prison before under a former charge, and there is no record of his having had any—if he had epileptic fits he would have fallen—the men are constantly coming to me making complaints, to be released from labour. GUILTY on the Third Count.

The officer stated that he was convicted in March of house-breaking, and sentenced to be confined for Two Years; and it was supposed he did this to get sentenced to penal servitude: he had been twice before convicted. Confined Three Months from the expiration of his former sentence.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-448
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Not Guilty > unknown

Related Material

448. LOUIS NATHAN (42), and ABRAHAM NATHAN (46) , Unlawfully assaulting Moses Coleman, and occasioning to him actual bodily harm. Second Count, unlawfully assaulting Abraham Brown.

MR. SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.

MOSES COLEMAN . I am a bailiff of the Sheriff's Court of the City of London—I received a process against the defendant, Louis Nathan—this is the warrant (produced)—it is directed to Moses Coleman and other officers, stating that there was a warrant against Louis Nathan in the White-chapel County Court—for 3l. 10s. and whereon he did not attend—it was ordered and required that he should be taken and delivered into custody—I went with Abraham Brown on 19th March for the purpose of executing this warrant—I found Louis Nathan in Meeting-House-yard, Whitechapel—I told him we had a wan-ant to take him; he said he did not owe the money, and he should not go with us—we told him if he would not go quietly we should be obliged to take him by force—he said if we would go to the other defendant he would convince us that he did not owe the money—we took hold of him and he went a short distance; he then said if we would let him go he would go quietly, and then he began to abuse us and to kick; that continued for about ten minutes before the other defendant came up—we did not get out of the yard before Abraham Nathan came up—I felt a blow in the back, and I turned round and saw Abraham Nathan; he pulled me away, and succeeded in rescuing Louis Nathan—Louis Nathan was not in such a position as to be able to strike me that blow—when I turned round Abraham Nathan was behind me and there were other persons—Abraham Nathan was in such a position that he could have inflicted the blow—he pulled me away from Louis Nathan by taking hold of my arm—

my hat fell on the ground; I stooped to pick it up and I saw Louis Nathan running away—he escaped for a time, but he was taken directly afterwards—Abraham Nathan went away—we procured the assistance of a policeman—while Louis Nathan was kicking us he said, if we did not let him go he would kick us in such a place that we should remember it for life.

Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. Did you mention that you were Sheriff's officers? A. We did; and that we had a warrant against him—I took the warrant and showed it him in about two minutes—I was dressed as I am now—Louis Nathan was by himself; he called his wife—I'don't know whether his children came—his wife did not cry out—I was looking aftef him most of the time—I took him by the arm after ten minutes' persuasion—I was not dragging him—I told him we would take him by force if he would not go willingly—I meant by force, extra help—there were some children round; there was no crying—I took hold of his arm and he began to struggle—the more force he used the more we used to get him along—he struggled and got away at last—he did not stand ten minutes kicking us after he had struggled—after he escaped he ran straight to his own house—he got into his house.

Cross-examined by MR. McDONNELL. Q. Which side were you on? A On the right side—I should think there might be as many as sixty people there.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Previously to this had you taken him on another summons? A. Yes; he knew me—I did not hear any words pass when Abraham Nathan came up—I was kicked—my leg was very stiff fcim a kick on the knee—the skin was abraded in the place where I was kicked—I was bruised and I suffered from that several days.

ABRAHAM BROWN . I am one of the bailiffs of the Sheriff's Court—I went with the last witness on 19th March to arrest Louis Nathan—we found him standing in Meeting-House-yard, by the side of a barrow—we walked up to him and stated we had a warrant from the Sheriff's Court against him, and Coleman took out the judgment summons and showed it to him—he said he did not owe the money and he would not pay—we said he must go with us; he said he would not—he said he wonld go to the plaintiff—I said, "No, you must go with us"—he said he would not—we waited ten minutes or a quarter of an hour, and he would not, and I took hold of one of his arms, and Coleman took the other—we walked about twenty yards, and then he said if we would let him go he would go quietly; we did, and then he kicked me in a violent manner—we seized him again, and there was a struggle—a great many people came up, and his brother Abraham came up, and someone struck Coleman, and he was separated from me, and I was left with Louis Nathan, and Abraham laid hold of my wrist and wrenched it from the collar of his brother's coat, which I was holding and Abraham said to his brother, "Run away," and Louis Nathan ran across the Yard; I followed him, and he got in at the door and slammed it in my face—the policeman came up, and I opened the door and we went in and took him—Abraham Nathan got away altogether—I saw Louis Nathan kick Coleman, and he kicked me—I have two marks on me now—and he battered me on the chest several times.

Cross-examined by MR. MC DONNELL. Q. Had you Louis Nathan not by the throat? A. My right hand had his collar; I believe I had not my finger and thumb on his throat—I think I had him by the collar—I had not Louis Nathan down at all—I could have had him down, but I did not—we had been speaking to Louis Nathan before Abraham

Nathan came up—we were not going backwards and forwards in the crowd; we were going on very well till Louis Nathan asked us to let him go—I can say that I was kicked by him—I did not at all resist his kick, I got close to him—the people who were looking on might move and we move.

GEORGE WELLS (City-policeman, 646). I assisted in taking the prisoners.

LOUIS NATHAN— GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.


7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-449
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

449. HENRY HART (29) , Feloniously receiving 100 lbs. weight of cigars, of the value of 100l., the property of Charles Morris and others.

MESSRS. ROBINSON and LEWIS conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES MAY . I am in the employ of Charles Morris and Co., cigar manufacturers, in Half-moon-alley, Whitechapel—the manufactory was broken open on 1st February, and sixteen or seventeen cwt. of cigars were stolen—I went to the Raglan Music Hall, the prisoner is the proprietor—I went there first on the 23d March; I purchased three cigars and paid 6d. for them—I recognized them as Messrs. Morris's—the cost price of one of them was 2 3/4 d., another 2d., and another 1d.—I paid 2d. each for them—two of them were British and one was foreign—I did not say anything to the prisoner at the time—I went again on 24th March, I saw the prisoner; I asked for a cigar—he brought me one—he said, "They are very good—only"—I said, "broken"—I have that cigar with me, this is it—the cost price of that was 2d., and I paid 3d. for it—it was a British cigar—I went again on 3d April and bought two more cigars similar to those I bought before—I went again on 4th April in company with Smith, the officer—we had a search warrant—we searched the premises and found thirty-nine lbs. of cigars—they were not then in the state they are now—they were several sorts, but mixed together—they were cigars varying from 7s. a pound to 24s.—our cigars never went out in that intermixed condition to my knowledge—these are them; I recognize them as Messrs. Morris's cigars—I particularly recognize these eight bundles, as being made from a new quality of Havannah tobacco—these were the first that were made from it—some of these I had made up on the night previous to the robbery, and put this ribbon round them on the night previous to the robbery—this ribbon was brought in previous to the robbery, and the first time of using it I put it round these cigars—we had thirty-four lbs. of that kind, and they were all gone—when I saw these cigars at the prisoner's bar, some were in a case, but the principal part were in two boxes on the floor—they were intermixed, but have all been sorted—some are worth 7s., some 7s. 6d., some 10s., some 12s., some 16s., some 18s., and some 24s.—I told the prisoner they were our cigars, he said, "Had I known you had been coming I would have cut my throat."

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Messrs. Morris is a large establishment? A. Yes; they manufacture in the course of a year hundreds and thousands of pounds of cigars—they were manufactured on the premises, employed for the purpose of manufacturing, and a large number of men are employed—all these cigars are Messrs. Morris's, but one lot, about a hundred cigars, they are not Mr. Morris's, but they were mixed up with the others—I can't tell whether these cigars were only a small part of the cargo of cigars—these particular cigars are not made in the Havannah for us and nobody else; but there is a quality about them that we can generally tell—I could not identify any bundle of the cigars as having been in our establishment, only that they are the same kind—one part of the cigars made on our establish

ment were made from a description of leaf that we have been working for months—one part from a leaf we have been working for two years; not always selling them as fast as they are manufactured—the leaf that I spoke of, we have manufactured thousands of pounds from, and of the same description as these—these bundles are made from a different leaf—these cigars in these boxes are made from that leaf, except these two bundles—those on the table are of a different character to those in the boxes—these two bundles are of the same quality, and these two are the same—those on the table are of a different kind of tobacco, they were made from some tobacco that has very recently come into our possession, at the beginning of the year—I don't know how much Mr. Morris bought of it—we manufactored thirty or forty lbs. the night previous to the robbery—I can't tell the quantity of leaf that came into this country, or how much we bought of it—we have no special growers for ourselves—I find no difficulty in recognizing cigars—I don't know that it is a question in the trade whether cigars can be identified by their own makers; it may be so—this ribbon was not manufactured by us, it is new ribbon that was bought—I can't say that it is sold to perhaps every manufacturer in London—it is the same description that we had—I swear this is the ribbon that I tied up the cigars with—I can swear to the texture of it, and the colour—the cigars I bought on 3d. April I paid 3d. each for; that was the value of them at cost price—the cigars I bought on the first and second occasions were not from the prisoner personally, but he was in the room—he used to go round with a box of cigars—I had never been there before—there were lots of people in the room—there is singing and concerts there, and persons sit there and smoke and drink—when I said to him, "These are our cigars," the officer Smith was with me—we were all together—Smith was in plain clothes; he first spoke to him; he told him he was an officer—I did not go in with him, I went in afterwards—he said, "If I had known that you had been coming, I would have cut my throat"—his words were not, "If I had known it"—but H If I had known that you had been coming."

MR. ROBINSON. Q. These cigars are your tying and you are prepared to swear to the cigars and the leaf? A. Yes; I know the various qualities of cigars that were lost, and amongst those here produced, here are some of all the qualities that we lost except two—of every quality and every sample found here, we missed some—here are twelve different kinds, and we lost fourteen different kinds—these foreign cigars I could not recognise from some others of the same cargo—I have been in the business twenty years-colour is one of the ingredients by which I recognise them—whether the cigars in the cargo were large or small, we had such cigars in our itook and lost them.

JOHN ELWIN . I live in Newport-terrace, Mile-end, and am a cigar maker and work for the prosecutor; some of these cigars are my making—these are mine (looking at them)—I know my own particular make.

Cross-examined. Q. How long have you been engaged in making cigars? A. I can't tell; I have been in different employs—it is difficult to identify cigars after they have been manufactured and Eent into the market, but these are my make—these small ones I did not make, these long ones are what I made—these others I would not positively swear that I made—when we make the cigars they are wet—we make fifty or a hundred, and they are taken from us—we see no more of them at all.

COURT. Q. Having made cigars, do you know the cigars of your own make? A. Yes; these large ones I made—they are my make.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. But were you shown some cigars at Scotland-yard that

you could not swear you made? A. No; I went there to sort them—the last witness went there to assist to sort them—when I finish them they are wet—they do not change colour in drying—when we make them they are wet, and when dry they are different of course—I commenced the manufacture of this description of cigars four or five years ago—I have made them since 1855.

SAMUEL LAMBERT . I live in Whitechapel-road, and have been a cigar maker about ten years—I feel confident that the cigars in these bundles (looking at them) are my make—I can't tell when I made them.

Cross-examined by MR. POLAND. Q. Where did you get the leaf? A. From the prosecutor, to make them up—I firmly believe these are my make, (unrolling several of them)—these are my make—I merely unrolled them to look at them—I made cigars of this description in January; I might have made these in January—I might have made them two years ago—I make different sorts of cigars from different leaf—I am working all day at Messrs. Morris's premises—the leaf is brought, the cigars are made up, and I don't see them any more—I sometimes make twelve or fourteen hundred in a week; or sometimes sixteen hundred—it depends on the nature of the cigar—when they are sent from me they change—they get shorter and harder with the drying, and some dry rough, and some smooth—I can only say that these are my own work.

LOUIS MORRIS . I recollect our premises being broken open—we lost 16 or 17cwt. of cigars—I can recognise these produced as our property undoubtedly—this one is a foreign bundle—it is an easy matter to see that these are foreign—we had some of these cigars.

CHARLES MORRIS . I am one of the prosecutors—these cigars are ours, and some of the same cigars we lost—we lost some of each quality that are here, and of two sorts that are missing.

Cross-examined. Q. I suppose in the last twelve months you have sold a great many of these? A. No; here is one sort of which we sold none at all—these eight bundles are of a sort that we sold none at all—these were manufactured a short time before the robbery at our place—Lambert made some of them—ib might be two or three or four weeks before the robbery—one of the two men who were examined made some, I don't know which; I am not able to say exactly what quantity they made—the whole quantity that was made was stolen, there was none left—these cigars are not of a similar description to what we have been manufacturing the last three years; they are made of a different kind of tobacco—I purchased the leaf that came from the Havannah—it was not from a special plantation of our own there—what I bought was a portion of the quantity that came—I don't know who bought the other parcels that came in that ship—I don't know whose plantation this came from in the Havannah.

WILLIAM SMITH . I am a detective officer—I went with Mr. May on 4th April to the prisoner's premises—I found this 39lb. of cigars—I went in and told the prisoner I was a police-officer, and had a warrant to search his house—the prisoner said, "Very well"—I searched, and found the cigars—after a portion of these were found, I went in the bar parlour where Mr. May was, and he identified the cigars—I told the prisoner he must consider himself in my custody—I asked him how he became in possession of the cigars—he said, "I decline to give you any account; it will be time enough for me to do so when I get before the magistrate"—I repeated the question a second time, and it was after that I told the prisoner he must consider himself in my custody—I went with the prisoner up stairs to his

bed-room, and while going up he said, "What a pity it is that a man in my situation should bring himself into trouble like this for the sake of saving a few pounds"—I searched the upper part of the house and came down again with him to the bar, and there he said, "Had I known this last night I would have cut my b—y throat"—I said to him, "Well, Mr. Hart, these cigars are stolen; have you any invoioe to show how you became possessed of them"—he said, "I have one"—I said, "Where is it, is it on the file?"—he said he did not know exactly where it was, as he was a very careless man in business and did not take care of these things—I then took the cigars away, and he was taken to the police-station by a brother officer—I had some conversation with him at the police-court in the morning before the first examination—he said in the waiting-room that he had bought the cigars of a band-master at the Surrey; giving me a name which I don't recollect—he also said, "If you go to Caldwell's you will find some more which were bought of the same man; and Mr. Bishop, of the Surrey Gardens, also bought of the same man."

Cross-examined. Q. Has he another house in Brydges-street, Covent-garden? Yes; I went and searched that house; I went there immediately, that there might be no communication—I found there 18lbs. more of cigars—I don't know what I did with them; none of them are here—when I went first to The Raglan, I was accompanied by Mr. May; I went in first—the prisoner gave me every facility to go all over the place—some of the cigars were in boxes, and some in the open glass case in the bar—I took one portion of them at the first visit; they were those which Mr. May identified, and on coming back I took some others—Mr. May said," These are not ours"—the prisoner's wife was lying in bed, she was very ill—I searched the bed-room, tinder the bed, up the chimney, and every where—I did not find a single cigar concealed—when I stated to the prisoner that I had a warrant to search his house, he was very much excited—he said that he got into this to save a few pounds—he did not say in "buying them from a man bringing them round;" not a word of that kind was ever uttered—he stated at the police-court that he bought them of the band-master at the Surrey Gardens—when I asked him about the invoice, I asked him if I should find it on the file, and he said he did not know, he was a careless person about these things:—he said he bought them of the band-master of the Surrey Gaidens, but I don't recollect the name he gave.

Q. Were not the words he made use of these: that the band-master of the Surrey Gardens had bought similar cigars from the same person, and that you would find that if you made enquiry? A. No; he said that Mr. Caldwell and Mr. Bishop had bought cigars from the same man—he did not say that the band-master had bought cigars of the same kind—when I went back in the afternoon, I took some other cigars, but in the morning I saw the cigars which I took away in the afternoon—between my two visits the cigars had not been at all moved.

COURT. Q. Is the Lord Raglan Hall a large place, frequented by numbert of persons? A. Yes; every evening—the prisoner has kept it about five years—it was before a small public-house.

SYDNEY DAVIS . I am one of the band-masters at the Surrey Gardens, and have been so fifteen yeare—there are two band-masters—I never sold any cigars to the prisoner.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you buy cigars? A. No; I never bought any in my life only for my own smoking—I did not buy any in the early part of this year for the purpose of the Gardens.

HENRY SCHALLEHON . I am one of the lessees of the Surrey Gardens—I never sold any cigars to the defendant.

JOHN CALDWELL . I have never bought any cigars from any band-master.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you obliged to buy them from week to week? A. No; sometimes I buy enough to last me twelve months—I don't know whether I bought some in February or March—I buy them myself, or I send out when I want them—I have no clerks under me in Dean-street—I am a manager of the Surrey gardens—Mr. Brisley buys the cigars there—he is a band-master—on 21st February I gave a cheque to Sydney Davis for 24l. 15s. but it was not for cigars, it was for music.

CHARLES BISHOP . I never bought any cigars of a band-master.


FOURTH COURT.—Friday, May 11th, 1860.


Before Robert Malcolm Kerry Esq. and the Third Jury.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-450
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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450. HENRY CLARK (58) , Embezzling the sum of 2l. 3s. 3d. which he had received on account of Grace Bunker, his master.

MR. LANGFORD conducted the Prosecution.

HARRIET STIFF . I am a milliner of 89, Upper-street, Islington—On the evening of 29th March last, the prisoner came to me and brought four dozen and a half of bonnet stands, which I had ordered from Mr. Grace Bunker—I paid him 2l. 3s. 3d. for Grace Bunker—he brought this bill receipted, which ho gave to me.

GRACE BUNKER . I am a stand-maker, of 8, Long-lane, Smithfield—the prisoner has been in my service off and on for eight years—he was in my service on Thursday, 29th March, at half-a-crown a day—on that evening I sent him with some iron stands, three dozen, as near as I can recollect, to Mrs. Stiff of Islington—I gave him this receipted invoice and told him to bring me back the money for the goods, 2l. 3s. 3d.—he did not do so—I next saw him at the police-station on Sunday morning, 1st April, about 9 o'clock—when I saw him he said he had lost the money; that was all the excuse he made—that was in answer to my question—I asked him what he had done with the money—I had paid him three sixpences during this Thursday—I owed him a shilling—I had given him half-a-crown for the previous Wednesday's work, and also for the previous Tuesday's—it was as near 5 o'clock in the evening as possible when he took the goods.

JOHN DAVEY (City-policeman, 252). I took the prisoner on Sunday morning, 1st April, about 9 o'clock—I heard the last witness ask him at the police-station what he had done with the money—he said he had had the money, but had lost it.

The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows:—"I can say no more than I have said before, that I have lost the money."

Prisoner's Defence. I received 2l. 3s. 3d. and lost it; I traced the ground over several times that night to find it, but without success; I then offered to Mr. Bunker to work out the loss.

COURT to GRACE BUNKER. Q. Did he offer to work it out? A. He did; at the station-house—I have known him about eight years—I have trusted

him before to collect amounts, large and small, off and on at times during a period of eight years—he always brought the money right—I do not know where ho was employed before—he has three children about the ages of eleven, twelve, and thirteen. NOT GUILTY .

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-451
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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451. ELIZABETH JANE SEGER (18) , Stealing twelve umbrella-frames and 3d. in money of Amy Sadd, her mistress.

MR. THOMPSON conducted the Prosecution.

AMY SADD . I am a single woman, of 14, Splits-terrace, Whitechapel, and am an umbrella maker—On 30th March last I was employed by Mr. Boss, of Little Love-lane, Wood-street, Cheapside—I work at home—at that time the prisoner was in my employ—on 30th March, about 2 o'clock in the afternoon, I sent her to Mr. Boss's with two dozen umbrellas—she left them—she ought to have brought me some work home, and 6s. 3d. in money—she could have been home between 4 and 5 o'clock, at the very latest—she did not return—I sent my mother to her house, who came back with her to my place at half-past 6 in the evening—she brought me one dozen covers, one dozen frames, two dozen trimmings, and 6s. in Money—I asked her why she did not bring 6s. 3d., and she said she had stopped it for a little sum I owed her—I thought nothing of that—I asked her if she had anything more to deliver from Mr. Boss's, and she said that they would send me another dozen down on Saturday, but she did not say whether it was to be a dozen frames, or a dozen covers—she did not at any time that day tell me that Mr. Boss had given her two dozen umbrella-frames.

Cross-examined by MR. DICKIE. Q. Were any covers sent to your place? A. No; my mother carried the things from the prisoner's house—the umbrella frames have never been found—I do not write—I do not know that it was half past four o'clock when the prisoner was at Mr. Bon's—when I send her for an errand, she is always going home—as she was late that day, I sent for her—she was talking to her mother, and the work wag lying on her mother's bed; there was no concealment—her mother lives at Bell's-place, Commercial-road—I discharged the prisoner on the following day because she was not worth the money I gave her—I am not single now—I have been married since.

COURT. Q. What o'clock was it when you sent to her mother's house? A. Half past six in the evening—it is not above 3 minutes' walk from our place to where her mother lives—it takes about half an hour to walk from Mr. Boss's to her mother's house.

LOUISA SADD . I am the mother of the last witness—in consequence of a communication from her I went to the prisoner's mother's house on 30th March about half past six—she did not deliver anything to me—I took the things off the bed; one dozen covers, one dozen frames, and the trimming for two dozen was found when the bundle was opened on her own bed at home—while the prisoner was opening the bundle to show us, she said "They will send you another dozen to-morrow by the lad"—that was all I heard from the prisoner.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you live a good way from Whitechapel? A. Well, we call it Commercial-road—that is rather further than Whitechapel—I went to this place, being astonished that the girl had not come back—when I went to the house, I found her standing talking to her mother—she said she had not been there 5 minutes—I at once went up stairs, saw the things lying in a bundle on the bed, and I took them and carried them home—she

offered to carry them for me, but I carried them myself, as it was only a little way.

COURT. Q. Did you say anything to her when you went in? A. I scolded her for stopping so long—she said she had only just come home; that she had not been there above 5 minutes—I took the work and went down stairs, and she followed me—she said she had occasion to go into the back yard, and that detained her—that was all she said to me—she did not appear in the least unwilling to go with me; she went quite readily.

HARRIET PRUETT . I live at 15, High-street, Bloomsbury, and am forewoman to Mr. Boss, of Little Love-lane—I remember the prisoner bringing home, on 30th March, some work from Amy Sadd—I gave her 6s. 3d. and some other materials to take back—I gave her two dozen whalebone frames, one dozen green gingham covers, and two dozen trimmings—I am quite certain that I gave her two dozen frames.

Cross-examined. Q. During this transaction, were you not called to attend to some one else? A No; I can say that I did not have any conversation with any one while the prisoner was there; not to my knowledge—if a person spoke to me I should answer them, but I did not go out of the room—I am quite sure that I gave two dozen frames, and two dozen trimmings—I have never made a mistake since I have been in the business—the servant came to call me to my tea which was in another room—the prisoner stayed there perhaps 10 minutes—if I had any work-people to attend to, I did not go to my tea—I am not friendly with the prosecutrix—they are quite strangers to me—I only have to serve them—they have threatened at Boss's to discharge me.

MR. THOMPSON. Q. Did you give a memorandum to the prisoner? A. Not to the prisoner; I have my own memorandum here, which I made at the time—generally they have books, which I make out in accordance with my own—sometimes they omit to bring them—the prisoner's book was not brought for me—she had not worked for me for a fortnight before—she had not a book at that time.

COURT. Q. How many people did you serve that day? A. I should say a dozen—we were in a great hurry at that time—we always close early on Friday, Mr. Boss not being of our religion.


7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-452
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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452. MARY SULLIVAN (20) , Stealing 3 rings, 1 pair of ear-rings, and other articles; the property of Joseph Clark, her master.

MR. BEST conducted the Prosecution.

EMMA CLARK . I am the wife of Joseph Clark, who keeps a public-house on Tower-hill—I took the prisoner into my employ, as servant, on 18th April last—she continued in my employ until Sunday, April 22nd—a little after 6 o'clock that evening I gave her leave to go to chapel—she left the house—whilst she was away I discovered a piece of paper on my chest of drawers, outside a workbox, which I knew ought not to be there—I had seen the workbox on the Monday previous, locked—there was then in it 7l. in silver and gold—in consequence of finding that paper I examined the box; it was still locked—I missed 8s. 9d. and a silver thimble from it—the coins that were in the box were principally new florins—I searched the clothes-closet on the landing at the top of the stairs, and missed 2 chemises, a pair of goloshes, 2 skirts of dresses, 2 petticoats, and a twill silk handkerchief—there were some other things missed belonging to Mrs. Clark, out of her own room—I had seen these things in the closet when she came into my employ—I did not give her leave to take them—she returned about half past 9 o'clock on this Sunday evening—I asked her where she got the neck-tie

from that she had had on on the previous evening—she said that it was her own, and that she had another piece like it—I said "Very well, Mary, but that is not all"—I thought that necktie was mine; it was just like mine—I had missed mine, and could not find it anywhere—I said "That is not all; I have missed other things, which I have found in your box"—before she came in, I had gone and searched her box, and found the articles which I have just mentioned—she said, "All the articles that were in my box before I went out, are mine"—I said, "Come and see"—I took her there—I had not put the things in again which I had found; they were on a chair—Mr. Cox, a friend of my husband's, came up then—he said to her, "Will you allow me to search your pocket?" she said, "Yes"—he did so, and found my necktie and Mrs. Clark's gold ring; it had no stone in it—I said, "Mary, have you anything belonging to me?"—she lifted up her dress, and I saw two petticoats—I said, "They are mine"—she said at first that they were hers—she pulled them off—a policeman was then sent for; he came, and some other things were found—the policeman showed me a purse which he found in the prisoner's box—it was mine; there was 1l. 12s. 6d. in it, all silver.

Cross-examined by MR. ORRIDGE. Q. What public-house is this? A. The Sun, on Tower-hill—it was open on this Sunday evening—the prisoner's room where the box was, was at the top of the house—it is not easily got at from the bar—there are three pairs of stairs—there is nothing to prevent any person getting into the passage from the bar—the prisoner came into my employ from a Mr. Solomon's, where she had been five months—I had a good character with her—she had been in my employ four days when this happened.

Q. All the money that you missed from your box, you say, was 8s. 9d.; so that the 1l. 12s. 6d., was not yours? A. We missed a great deal out of our pockets—I last saw the box safe on the Monday—between that time and the prisoner's coming into my service, no person had been acting as qut servant—we have one barman; no other servant.

COURT. Q. How do you know your box had not been opened on the Tuesday, and things been abstracted? A. Because there was no one there that would do it—there is a barman in the house—I am not in the bar always—the barman does not go out with beer—I do not think there had been any opportunity for a clever thief to slip up stairs—there is always some one down below, or up stairs—no one could go to our bedroom.

MR. ORRIDGE. Q. When had you been to the cupboard last? A. On the Tuesday evening; I cannot say the time exactly—the prisoner came into my service on Wednesday—I did not look into my cupboard on Wednesday morning—I do not know whether the things that I lost from the cupboard, were taken before she came into my service—the work-box was in my front bedroom—no one sleeps in that room—I sleep in the adjoining room.

COURT. Q. When did you last see the two chemises, and other things? A. On the Tuesday evening—I saw them when I opened the cupboard—they were on the floor—one was dirty; the other was in a box—I lifted the dirty one up and saw what it was—I did not lift up the clean one—I saw the pair of goloshes in the closet—the two shirts were there, and the two petticoats—I had only two petticoats in the closet—I have got some in my drawers—Tuesday is the day that I look out my washing, ready for the Wednesday morning—I did not give these things out on the Wednesday morning—I suppose I did not observe them—I always make a list of articles for the washerwoman; I made a list of the things—I sent the

things to the laundress on Wednesday morning, the week previous, and she brought them back again on the Saturday night—I did not count them—I saw the prisoner go out on the Sunday night; I did not perceive any bundle under her arm—I think Mrs. Clark took in the things on the Saturday night.

LAWRENCE BURGESS (Policeman, H 190). I was sent for to this public-house on Sunday night, about half-past 11; and saw the prisoner in the bar parlour—she was given in my custody—Mr. Clark said in her presence, "This ring and things were found on her person"—Mrs. Clark was present—there were three rings, two gold ear-rings, and a silver thimble—I said, "How did you come by these?" she said, "Sweeping up the bedroom, under the drawers"—I said, "How did you come by the thimble?" she said, "I was going to sew, and I took the loan of the thimble out of my missus's work-box"—I said, "What about the petticoats?" she said, "They were old things, and I thought I might take them"—I said, "Come along with me and see what is in your box"—I went up and searched the box—there were some things lying on a chair by the side—I found the purse under the bottom of the box, amongst a lot of old rags—it contained 1l. 12s. 6d.—I said, "What about this purse?" Mrs. Clark said that it was hers, and the money too—I then said, "I must search the bed"—I took the bedclothes off, and between the bed and mattress I found four new florins, a sixpence, and a threepenny piece; making 8s. 9d.; a silk handkerchief, and a dirty towel—I said, "What about this?" she said, "Oh! it is all my own money."

Cross-examined. Q. Had Mrs. Clark told you that she had missed some money from her box before you looked under the bed? A. No; Mrs. Clark did not examine her own box while I was there—she said she had missed several amounts of money from her pocket—as soon as I found the money, she said, "That is out of my box"—directly I got there, the prisoner was given in my custody—Mr. Clark came outside the door and called me as I was passing—he said, "I am going to give my servant into custody for robbing me"—I went in, and she was in the bar parlour—Mr. Clark then said, "That is the servant;" and I took her into custody, and asked her about the ear-rings and thimble—I am sure that it is generally part of my instructions, after I take prisoners in custody, to ask them how they became possessed of things—I have been a policeman eleven years—Mr. Clark said he should charge the prisoner.

EMMA CLARK (re-examined). This purse (produced) is mine—it was in my bedroom—I saw it on the day previous to the prisoner's coming to my place; there was no money in it then—one of the rings is mine; it was in my bedroom.

MR. ORRIDGE. Q. How long have you had the purse? A. Before I was married—ray husband gave it to me.

SARAH CLARK . I am the mother-in-law of the last witness—I live at her house—I remember the prisouer coming into her service—on the Friday in that week, 20th April, I had two gold rings, a pair of ear-rings, and some other rings—they were in a drawer in my bedroom—I saw them about the middle of the day—I locked the door and left the key in—this ring without a stone in it, and these ear-rings, are mine.

Cross-examined. Q. How many of these are yours? A. These two earrings are mine—I kept them in a little box together—I looked at the box on the Friday—on Saturday night when I went to bed, the drawer had been ransacked, but I did not mention a word about it, till I saw the rings; till the was in custody—Mrs. Callaghan is the name of my laundrcas—we

send the things to the wash on Wednesday, and she brings them back on the Saturday night.

COURT to EMMA CLARK. Q. Had you searched the box before this girl came back? A. Yes; it was unlocked, not open—the policeman afterwards found the key in the looking-glass drawer—I found my things in different places in tho box.

MR. BEST. Q. You did not put them in yourself? A. No.

The prisoner received a good character.

GUILTY.—Recommended to Mercy by the Jury. Confined Eight Days.

THIRD COURT, Saturday, May 12th 1860.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Seventh Jury.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-453
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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453. WILLIAM BROWN (27) , Stealing, whilst employed in the Post Office, 4 post-letters, containing certain chattels, the property of Her Majesty's Post-master General; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY , and received a good character.

Six Years' Penal Servitude.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-454
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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454. WILLIAM DESMOND (20) , Robbery (with others) on Jacob Millner, and stealing from his person 1 watch chain, value 10s., his property.

MR. SHARPE conducted the Prosecution.

JACOB MILLNER (through an Interpreter), I am a German, and am in the employ of Mr. Goodhart, a sugar baker—On 9th April, I was in Lower Grove-street, between 5 and 6 o'clock in company with Ellen McCarthy—the prisoner and six others, and two girls, came after me—they reeled, and one of them, I don't know which, struck me violently on the breast—the prisoner was one amongst the five or six persons; he pushed up against me and my cap fell off—I stooped to pick up my cap and the prisoner struck me again—that is the man—I had a watch in my waistcoat-pocket and a chain to it, and a silver guard round my neck, and as I was standing up the prisoner snatched at my chain—he did not get the watch, that remained in my pocket—he got the whole chain and ran away—the other persons stopped awhile, and when they found I was running after the prisoner they ran off—I was about five paces from the prisoner while running—I saw him throw away the chain in the street, I picked it up, and he kicked me twice in the face as I was stooping—my chain is worth 10s.—I am certain that the prisoner is the person who snatched it—the others ran away as the policeman came up.

Cross-examined by MR. LEWIS. Q. How long had you left your work? A. About two hours—I was with McCarthy the whole of that time; I went there to dinner—we had a pot of beer, which we drank between us—I went directly from McCarthy's house to Grove-street—I saw the prisoner and the others coming after me behind; I saw them as we were going very slowly, and at times turning round, and I moved from one side to the other to get out of their way, thinking they were drunk—I cannot recollect the features of any one but the prisoner—I positively saw the prisoner before I received the blow—I did not know the features of the prisoner before I felt the first blow—I will swear it was the prisoner who struck the first blow; the blow caine from the front—the prisoner was the one before me at that time—I can't tell whether the person who struck me was drunk or sober—there were

other persons about besides the five or six who came up afterwards and before there were some persons looking out of windows—that was after the first blow—I asked the prisoner what he wanted with me—I spoke to him as I speak now—he gave me no answer, but snatched at my watch—he got the guard and ran away—at the time the prisoner snatched my watch the others had not done anything—I ran after him about two hundred paces, and he turned round and threw my guard on the ground—there was only myself running after him—as I was in the act of picking up the chain the policeman came up.

Mr. SHARPE. Q. How far was it before you picked up the chain? A. About two hundred paces—we had had a pot of beer—before the prisoner came up to me I looked round and saw he was coming behind me—I can't say that I had ever seen the others; I don't know them—when the prisoner struck me the others were not then in front of me; they were about ten paces behind me—that was when I was struck the first time—at the time I stooped to pick up my cap, the others were far behind—I was not struck by any other person but the prisoner—at the time the prisoner struck me the other persons were a short distance behind—I was as perfectly sober as I am at present.

COURT. Q. Had the other persons any thing to do with it as far as you saw? A. That I could not say.

ELLEN MCCARTHY . On 9th April I was in Grove-street, in company with the last witness—I saw the prisoner and five men and two women in company with him—they had been following us about aquarter of an hour—the prisoner came up before us and staggered against us; another man staggered against us—I said to Jacob, "Cover over the watch"—the prisoner came behind him and hit him—his cap fell off, and he stooped for his cap, and the prisoner made a grab at the watch and ran away, and the prosecutor ran after him—at the time the prisoner came up and staggered against the prosecutor, the others were close behind—at the time Millner was stooping down, and the chain was seized, and before the prisoner ran away; another man hit him when he was stooping for his cap—the other man hit him, and the prisoner made a snatch at his watch—I have known the prisoner four or five years by sight; but not by name—I am quite sure the prisoner is the person who seized the watch-chain—I knew him when he was a shoe-black—I knew the faces of several of the other five men.

Cross-examined. Q. Had you a pint of beer? A. No, not a drop—I had some the first thing in the morning in the house—the prosecutor came to my house at half-past 3 o'clock—we had no beer then—not a pot of beer to my knowledge in the house—I am not occasionally drunk without knowing it—I may have drank the beer without knowing it—I did not say anything to those two girls, nor to the prisoner—they had been following us a quarter of an hour—in that quarter of an hour we got over about a quarter of a mile—I knew the prisoner and most of them before—I did not turn to speak to them; we crossed to avoid them—I knew the prisoner was with bad charactera—I said nothing to him, I never opened my lips—I saw the prisoner come out aud strike Millner—I did not try to collar the prisoner because one of the women pulled my bonnet and shawl off just before—it was not the same bonnet that I have on now, it was a yellow one—I did nothing to the prisoner, I ran after him—I did not run as fast as Jacob—there was a general scuffle—one man stood before me to prevent my running after the prisoner.

MR. SHARPE. Q. Was it before the snatch or after, that your bonnet was pulled off? A. Before—we tried to avoid those seven persons because they

followed us—I said to Jacob, "You mind your watch"—Millner was in front of me—I ran after the prisoner—I was sober—it was between 8 and 9 o'clock in the morning that I had a pint of beer.

EDMUND CARLTON (Policeman, H 79.) On 9th April I was in my house, 3, Grove-street—I saw the prisoner in Grove-street, and the two witnesses—there were five other persons, and two females—when I first saw them they were opposite my door—I saw the prosecutor go by bleeding—he was walking—I went out and saw the prisoner with the others—the prisoner hit the prosecutor—I suppose it was ten minutes after I first saw the prosecutor bleeding that I saw the prisoner strike him—I saw him strike him five or six minutes after I got out—I did not see the prisoner run away, and any body run after him—I did not see anything drop, or anybody pick up anything—I saw the prisoner strike the prosecutor in the crowd, and two of the crowd had hold of his hair; two of the men struck him—after this I saw the prisoner separate himself from the crowd after he was rescued from me—I took him, and the others rescued him—they assaulted me, and the prisoner ran away—that was about a quarter past 6 o'clock—I took the prisoner again about an hour afterwards—he asked what I wanted him for—I told him he should know presently, and I took him to the station.

Crow-examined. Q. Is he employed at the docks as a sfcevadore? A. I don't know; I have known him as a shoe-black—when I first saw the prosecutor he was walking—I saw the prisoner walk; he was in advance of the prosecutor two or three yards—the prisoner was making no attempt to escape—no one had hold of him at that time; when I came out I took him—McCarthy was six or seven yards from the prosecutor—she told me of her bonnet and shawl being taken off; they were off at the time—I have known the prisoner five or six years.

MR. SHARPE. Q. When you looked out at the window you saw the prosecutor bleeding? A. Yes—I saw the prisoner at that time—he was surrounded by a mob.

COURT. Q. You say he was walking three or four yards from the prosecutor? A. Yes—I saw him through the window, and identified the prisoner with the other five men; they were moving—there were other persons round the prisoner—when I say the prisoner was walking, I mean that the others were with him.

MR. SHARPE. Q. Do you know who the others were? A. They were dock-labourers.

JACOB MILLNER (re-examined.) This is the guard, it is on the watch now—this is my chain and the key to it—it is a German watch.

GUILTY .*— Confined Twelve Months.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-455
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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455. WILLIAM THOMAS (23) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of William Andrews at St. Andrew's, Holborn, with, intent to steal.

MR. ROBINSON conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS GROVES (Policeman, F 83.) On the morning of 21st April at a quarter past 4 o'clock I was on duty in Staple Inn, Holborn—I saw the prisoner on the top of a wall; I waited till he came down, took him, and asked him what he was doing—he said he had just left the house he lived in—I told him it was a curious way to leave the house, and asked him what number it was—he refused to tell me, and said he came that way because he did not wish to disturb the rest of the lodgers in the house—his hands were cut and bleeding—there were bottles on the wall that he was upon—that wall is about ten feet from Mr. Andrews' house.

WILLIAM ANDREWS . I am a tailor, and live at 11, Middle-row, Holborn.

On the morning of 21st April I was called up about 6 o'clock, and on going down I found a policeman there—I examined the yard, and the wall at the back had several bricks knocked off the top of it—several matches had been lighted—the top of the window in my back room was pulled down as far as it would go—I know it was up the night before, and the shutter which is inside was up—it is lined with iron—there were marks of four or five dents on the shutter as though they had been made with some sharp instrument—the shutters were very securely bolted the night before—there were marks on the shutters on the side next the window—the distance between the windows and the shutters is about four inches—I went to bed about 10 o'clock the night before—those marks were not on the shutters then.

THOMAS GROVES (re-examined.) When I saw him he was, I should think, fourteen feet from the window—it was the ground floor window, and getting on another wall he could get to the window—this chisel was found on the premises which would have made the marks on the shutters.

WILLIAM ANDREWS (re-examined.) I know nothing of this chisel—I understand the prisoner lives in a court about five minutes walk from my house—my house is in the parish of St. Andrew, Holborn.

JOHN PARNELL . I am porter to Mr. Andrews—On the morning of 21st April I examined the yard—I found bricks were down off the wall—I found this chisel in the shutter box—the shutters go in the box in the day, and inside the window at night.

Prisoner's Defence. I was coming through the building when the policeman stopped me. He said he had seen two fellows coming over the wall. This chisel I know nothing about. He told me to go with him to the station-house.

THOMAS GROVES (re-examined.) I met a man in the court—I passed him, and saw the prisoner on the wall.

GUILTY .*— Four Years' Penal Servitude.

FOURTH COURT.—Saturday, May 12th, 1860.


Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq. and the Third Jury.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-456
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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456. JOHN NOWLAN (30) , burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of George Marsh, and stealing various articles therein, his property.

MR. ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE MARSH . I live at 72, Three Colt-street, Limehouse, and am a baker—on 26th April I went to bed about a quarter past eleven—I left my house safe, locked up—on the following morning at about a quarter to 5 o'clock I was awoke by the police—I let the police in—from what they said to me, I looked about the house—I found the parlour in great confusion, and several half-burnt lucifers lying about the floors both of the shop and parlour—they had not been lying about the floor the night before—the parlour was in good order when I went to bed—I also missed some currant cake and pastry from the shop, sugar tongs from the parlour and spoons from the kitchen—I then went up stairs, and on the second floor the window opposite the staircase was unfastened—that overlooks the adjoining premises, which is the yard of a public-house—there is a grammar-school next door

but one—that is at the back of my place—that was all I missed till I went to the police-station, where a quantity of property, worth about 2l., was shown me, which was mine, and had been in various rooms of my house—these things (produced) are all mine—they were safe that night when I went to bed—there is a window at the top of my house that was closed but unfastened, when I went to bed—there were evident marks, inside and outside, of somebody having been there—inside there were marks on the wall as though a person had placed his foot or toe against the wall; and outside there were some broken slates—the marks of the toe or foot were just on the skirting—I do not know the prisoner at all.

Prisoner. Q. Does that property belong to you? A. It does; the clothing was made at my tailor's, Mr. Smith, of Bloomsbury, where I was living at the time—my wife purchased the flannel—the house and the goods in it belong to me—I have been in possession of the house since last Christmas—it is not my own property; I rent it—the shoes belong to me.

COURT. Q. Where did you get the sugar-tongs? A. I have had them some five or six years—they are not silver—I purchased them in Shoreditch—there is a mark inside them—I can swear to them—they were used the last thing at night.

MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Have those spoons been in daily use with you? A. Yes—I am quite satisfied they are mine—there is some copper coin in this bag—I cannot identify the coin, but there are some copper coins missing—I swear to the bag—I have not the slightest doubt about the boots.

PAUL ORCHARD (Policeman, K 321). About a quarter to 4 on the morning of 27th April I found the prisoner lying down behind a sign-board on the roof of the grammar-school, the back premises of which are very near to Mr. Marsh's—he had a bundle in his hand, and I ordered him to come down; he did so, and threw me the bundle—I asked him what he did up there; he said he got up there to get out of the way—I asked him what he had in the bundle, and who it belonged to—he made no reply—I then took him into custody, and took him to the station-house—I found on him two coats, a pair of trousers, boots—he was dressed in them—the flannel was in the bundle—I also found sugar-tongs, three tea-spoons, and the coin—they were all in his pocket—the coin was loose in his pocket, and the little bag also—after searching him, I went back and found that the premises of Mr. Marsh had been entered by a window at the back I believe—there was a slate broken outside, and the marks as if the print of a man's toe or boot had been against the wall—it would be possible to get into Mr. Marsh's premises that way, over the roof of the bouse—the things I have produced to-day are the same that I took off the prisoner; I have not changed them at the station, nor anybody else.

Prisoner. I know nothing of the bag; I had a few coppers in my pocket; I had three suits of clothes on me. Witness. He had these things on under the things that he has on at present.

GUILTY .— Four Years' Penal Servitude.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-457
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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457. ANN BROWN (29) , Stealing a pocket-book and 19l. 19s. 10d. in money of Robert Searle, from his person.

MR. DICKIE conducted the Prosecution.

ROBERT SEARLE . I am a waiter, and live at 9, Mare-street, Hackney—On 3d April, about 12 o'clock at night, I was passing along Bishopsgate-street—the prisoner accosted me and asked me to go down a turning—I went a few yards, and I felt her hand inside my breast pocket—I put my

hand in my pocket and missed my pocket-book—she ran away and I ran after her—I fell down—when I got up I saw her in the arms of a policeman—there were nineteen sovereigns in the pocket-book—I had a half-sovereign and 9s. 10d. in my waistcoat pocket—when I got up to them she put the pocket-book into my pocket again—I was sober—I never saw the prisoner in my life before.

Prisoner. Q. Were you not tipsy at the station-house? A. No; I fell down by running after you—I said before that you put the pocket-book into my pocket when I came up to the officer.

COURT. Q. Did you say that she put it back when she was in the lane? A. No. (The witness' deposition being read, stated: "She took the pocket-book out of my pocket—I saw the policeman coming; she then put the book back in my pocket, and two of the sovereigns dropped on to the pavement.")

WILLIAM BARKER (City-policeman, 615). On 3d April, about 12 o'clock at night, I was on duty in Bishopsgate-street—when I came to the corner of Great St. Helen's, I saw the prisoner run round a corner about twenty-five yards down St. Helen's—I heard something drop which sounded like gold—I ran after her, took hold of her arm, and asked her what she had been doing—she said "Nothing"—at that moment the prosecutor ran round the corner, and the prisoner then put the book back in his pocket—I am perfectly sure that I saw her do that—the prosecutor asked me to count the contents of the pocket-book, because the prisoner had robbed him of a pocket-book containing nineteen sovereigns—I counted, and there were but sixteen in it—I went down about ten yards lower, where I had heard something drop, and there I found two sovereigns, making eighteen altogether—I found nothing else—I took her to the station house—there was a florin and a half-crown received from the female searcher—the prosecutor appeared to be sober—he was in a very flurried state; trembling.

Prisoner. Q. Did you or another officer pick up the two sovereigns? A. I did; there were no other persons near when I saw you run round the corner and drop the sovereigns, but after you were taken, there were some other people passing, as there generally are—I never told the other officer that he was a fool to let two other women go, because you were all three together.


7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-458
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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458. ELLEN HARRISON (18) , Feloniously uttering a forged Bank of England note for 5l. with intent to defraud.

MR. ROBINSON conducted the Prosecution.

LOUIS SIGENBERG . I am in the employ of Mr. Abraham Lynes, tailor, of 186, High-street, Shoreditch—I recollect the prisoner coming into his shop on Wednesday, 7th March—she said, "Could Mr. Lynes oblige Mr. Maplesden with change for a 5l. note?"—I went to see whether Mr. Lynes could—he was up-stairs—I called up to him, but not so that the prisoner could hear—Mr. Lynes' son brought down four sovereigns and two half-sovereigns—I gave them to the prisoner—Mr. Maplesden keeps the Holywell public-house three doors off—I sent the note up to my master—I do not know whether this (produced) is the note—I sent the note up by Mr. Lynes' son, when he brought the money down.

Prisoner. Q. When I came into your master's shop, did I ask to have it changed for myself or Mr. Maplesden? A. I understood you to ask change for Mr. Maplesden—I don't recollect your saying anything to me

when the money was brought down—oh, yes; you did say that there was no name on the note, and that you had better put your name on it—I said that if Mr. Maplesden wanted change for the note, Mr. Lynes knew him and could send in there and have it signed.

ABRAHAM LYNES . I am the employer of the last witness—On 7th March he called up stairs to me—I sent down four sovereigns, and two half-sovereigns, and the note was sent up to me afterwards—this is the note—I can swear to it because it is the only one I had that week—I paid it into my banker's on the following Monday and had it returned to me with the word "Forged" on it.

COURT. Q. Whom did you give the sovereigns and half-sovereigns to? A. To my little boy—I heard him go down stairs and come up, and he brought me back the note.

MR. ROBINSON. Q. Was she a few days afterwards brought to your shop? A. She was pointed out to me by the man who minds our door, as the party who came in on the Wednesday—I called her in and asked her whether she was in at our place on the Wednesday previous—she said, "Yes"—I said, "You came to change a note"—she said, "Yes"—I said, "Who sent you?"—she said, "Mr. Maplesden"—she said, "Is there anything the matter?"—I said, "Yes, it is a forged note, and I must detain you"—I gave her into custody.

(The witness's deposition before the Magistrate was read over to him by the Court as follows: "I am the employer of the last witness. On the afternoon in question my boy brought to me the note produced, and I sent down by him five sovereigns: I afterwards wrote the name of Maplesden on the back of the note, as it now appears. The note was paid into my bankers, who returned it to me marked "Forged." The prisoner was brought into my shop on the 12th by my own man, and I asked her if she was here last Wednesday to change a note; she said, "Yes." I asked if Mr. Maplesden sent her; she said, "I went into Mr. Maplesden's for change, and he said he had not got it, but if I came to your place he had no doubt you would give it me.")

WILLIAM THOMAS HYDE MAPLESDEN . I have not read my deposition before I got into the box—I am the landlord of the Holy well public-house, Shoreditch—I know the prisoner—I recollect her coming into my place on 7th March.

ABRAHAM LYNES (re-examined.) At the back of the note I wrote Mr. Maplesden's name.

MR. MAPLESDEN (continued). She asked me whether I would cash this note for her—I can swear to the note—I told her that it had been previously presented to me, and I had rejected changing it, as, according to my own judgment, as far as I could test it, I considered it to be forged—I then told her to take it, with my compliments, to Messrs. Davis's bank in Shoreditch to ask, and to have it tested, and they would tell her whether it was good or not—I never authorized her to take it to Mr. Lynes in any way—I did not tell her when it had previously been presented—when I told her that it had been previously presented she left the bar—I am quite sure she did not say anything—she did not say anything during the whole time, except asking me for change—(The Court read the witness's deposition over to him).

Prisoner. Q. When my landlord brought the note to you what did you tell him? A. I told him that it was a bad note—when you brought it to me I told you that I knew the note; that I had had it brought to me before, and I believed it to be bad, and that you had better take it to

Davis's bank and have it tested—when Mr. Lynes came to me I told him that I did not know where you lived, but that I could find the party that had the coffee-house—I meant by that the first man who brought the note to me.

MR. ROBINSON. Q. You said you could find out this eating-house keeper; did you know him at all? A. He was a casual customer—he lives in William-street—I do not know his name—William-street is about three hundred yards from Bateman's-row.

PETER LUTERSON (Policeman, A 413). The prisoner was given into my custody on 12th March last, by Mr. Lynes; I received this note from Mr. Lynes—the prisoner said she had taken it to Mr. Lynes and received cash for it—she did not then say anything about where she lived—she afterwards said that she was lodging the previous night at the coffee-house, 2, William-street, but that a fortnight previous she had been lodging in Bateman's-row.

JOSEPH BUMSTEAD . This is a forged note.

to MR. MAPLESDEN. Q. When the coffee-house keeper brought you the note the week before, did you tell him that if he took it to Mr. Davis he would be able to tell him whether it was good or not? A. I did—I did not say that it looked to me as if it was good—I said that I believed it to be bad—I believe the coffee-bouse keeper is not here to-day.

COURT to LOUIS SIGENBERG. Q. When the prisoner came into the shop about the 5l. note, did she say that Mr. Maplesden had sent his compliments, and could his master oblige "me" with change? A. No; I understood her to say that it was to oblige Mr. Maplesden; I think that is so—I don't think she might have said "Oblige me with change:" if she had said that I should not have troubled Mr. Lynes—when she offered to put her name I did not say that my master was engaged—he was engaged at the time—I may have said that he was engaged at the time.


NEW COURT—Monday, May 14th, 1860.


Before Mr. Recorder and the Seventh Jury.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-459
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

459. JAMES SHLEGEL (32) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Benjamin Norton, at St. Mary-le-bonne, and stealing therein 1 urn, value 100l., 1 claret-jug, value 30l., 1 tea-urn, value 10l., and other articles, his property; and afterwards feloniously stabbing Moses Levi, in the night time in the said dwelling-house.

MESSRS. METCALFE and LEWIS conducted the Prosecution.

MOSES LEVI . I am butler to Mr. Benjamin Norton, of 30, York-place, Portman-square—On the evening of 17th March, I closed the house between 5 and 6 o'clock, and bolted it up—next morning between 2 and 3 o'clock I heard a noise; I went up stairs, struck a match, lighted a candle, and took this sword (produced)—I saw two doors open which I had bolted and locked in the evening—I went to the dining-room, round a corner, and saw a man with a parcel containing a clock and a table-cover—he said, "I shall kill you"—I got the sword, and he blew out the candle and gave me a blow; he then caught me by my coat, chucked me on the ground; I shouted out

"Murder!" and "Police! thieves in the house"—my wife came up stairs and went to the master—the man pulled me right over by my collar—I then left him and ran after the other one—he got on to the leads, threw this parcel over, and some one called out, "All right"—I said, "No, all wrong;" he went by the leads and the sky-light; I pulled him by his legs, but he got away from me and went over the walls by the empty houses—I jumped back again after him; he got the parcel up, went over the leads, and then I cotched him—we had a fight of eight or ten minutes, and I was screaming so that you could hear in the street, and then I saw a policeman—the man got away from me, and jumped a wall of eight or nine feet—a piece of gold then fell, a presentation plate, and I jumped down and picked it up—the man jumped off the wall by another house—I saw a policeman looking over the wall, and I called, "There he goes, Sir"—I am an Englishman brought up in Holland—the struggle lasted about ten minutes—I saw his face perfectly well and recognised him at the police-court among others—I could have pointed him out from above a hundred—I hit him in the face with the sword in the struggle, and it was broken—this vase (produced) is my master's property; it is silver gilt—I saw it safe when I locked up the place—I was hit in four places; I was stabbed on my shoulder, or cut—I do not know whether the prisoner had any weapon.

Cross-examined by MR. ATKINSON. Q. Did you cut and thrust at the man with that sword? A. Yes—it was then longer than it is now—I hit him more than once; I kept cutting away at him over the lace—that was the first man—the second man came from up stairs and took me by my collar—that is the one I say is the prisoner—I cut at him and hit him on the face and side—I cannot say whether I cut him more than once in the face, but I tried hard for it; it was not mj fault that I did not—the blow I received in my eye was from the first man—part of the struggle was in the house, and part out on the leads—I kept crying "Police!" and "Murder!" all the time—I cannot say how long the policeman was present—I saw his shiny hat, and the man get away—I was not afterwards told by the police that they had got a man with a cut over his eye; they said that they had got the man—when I went to the police court I did not look out for a man with a cut on his face; I did not look after the cut, I looked after the face—I saw a little cut by his eye at the police-court.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Was the struggle with these men in two different places out of the house? A. Not with this man; I was with the first one after he was on the leads—I had a struggle with him alone; a struggle with one on one side of the leads, and then a struggle with one on the other—I had no struggle with the prisoner inside the house—the policeman was oil the sky-light; on another leads six or seven yards off, but not below—there was sufficient light to see that he was a policeman, and I knew him by his clothes—there is no gas there, but it was a very light night; I had plenty of opportunity of seeing the features and description of the person I was engaged with—I picked the prisoner out at the police-station from among several others, and I am quite certain of him; I could have picked him out of a thousand.

MR. ATKINSON. Q. Do you know whether there was a cap found the next morning? A. Yes; in the hall, where I had the first struggle—I did not see it fitted on the prisoner.

BENJAMIN JEWELL (Policeman, D 109). On Sunday morning, 18th March, about 3 o'clock, I was going up York-place, and heard screams of murder and police—I ran up to No. 30; some one spoke to me from the house, and

I went through the house to the back premises—I was getting up a wall from 30 to 33, and saw the butler and the prisoner tustling together seven or eight yards off me—I was getting over the wall when I saw the prisoner throw the bundle down on to the leads of the adjoining house—before I could get at them, the butler sang out, "He is gone," and he went down over the wall—I saw him twice, and was about five yards from him at one time; he was in my view about five minutes, and I had the opportunity of seeing his face and appearance, and am certain it was the prisoner—I saw him again on the morning of the 22d in custody at Clerkenwell, and picked him out from five more without hesitation—he then had a cut on his face which appeared to have been done three or four days—I saw that the butler was injured by cuts which appeared to be done with a knife—the house is in the parish of St. Mary-le-bone—I picked up the bundle afterwards; it contained these articles.

Cross-examined. Q. Had you your lantern with you? A. Yes; I threw its light on the two parties who were struggling—I was on the wall, and Mr. Norton, the gentleman belonging to the house, was behind me.

COURT. Q. Did you see the weapon the butler had? A. Yes; there were spots of blood on it.

BENJAMIN BRYANT (Police-inspector, G). I assisted in taking the prisoner in custody—I took him to Clerkenwell police-station—he was afterwards identified by Jewell and Levi, whom I sent for—I asked the prisoner how he came by his wound; he said he did not know—on the following morning he said something to mo which I do not remember—I got this hat off his head; part of the interior of the lining is burnt out with a lucifer, or something of that sort, and there are spots of grease—it was rather worse then, as some of the burnt parts are fallen off, and some of the grease is hardened—I was present when he told the surgeon, Mr. Taylor, who I sent for to examine his wound, that it was done with a piece of iron; that was the only explanation he gave—I took him in Arlington-street near Sadler's Wells Theatre, on Wednesday, 21st March.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you see a cap fitted on him? A. Yes; it did not fit him—I found this skeleton key and matches on him when I took him; he threw the key out into the crowd—it was caught by a gentleman and handed to me—he gave these four keys to a gentleman in my presence—I also found on him these wedges; they are for the purpose of putting into any place which is prized open with a jemmy.

WILLIAM SCOTT (Policeman, N 134). On 17th March, about 6 o'clock, I saw the prisoner in Pentonville-road, near King's-cross—he had no mark on his face in any way, I am quite sure of that—I saw him three or four times that day—I saw the mark which was on him when he was taken afterwards, and am quite sure that if it was there on the 17th, I must have seen it.

WILLIAM TAYLOR . I am a surgeon of St. John-street-road—I examined an incised wound on the prisoner's cheek, on the outer angle of the left eye, about half an inch long—any sharp instrument might have produced such a wound—I understood him to say that it was done by a file—the point of this sword would be more likely to do it than the edge.

JURY. Q. Might it have produced the same wound in it's present state? A. Yes—the wound was dressed with collodion.

THOMAS POTTER (Police-sergeant, A 348). I was sent for on Sunday morning to 30, York-place—it had been entered by the persons letting themselves into an area at the rear of the house, breaking a square of glass in the window, forcing the shutters, and breaking an iron bar which went

across their centre—I found a great many lucifera, which had been lit in the hall kitchen and other parts of the house, and a quantity of blood on the wall in the passage—there was blood on the leads over which Levi passed, and on the wall, and there was a sword or broken dagger, upon which I found several spots of blood—Levi's shirt was covered with blood.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you pick up a cap? A. A cap was given to me by, I believe, Levi's wife—I tried it on the prisoner, but it was not quite big enough.

Witnesses for the Defence.

ELIZABETH SKAYNES . I live at the Alpha Arms, Caledonian-road—on Saturday, 17th March, between 9 and 10 in the evening, I took in a glass of spruce and water and was waiting for the money, when a friend of mine came in with some work—I was not in the bar, I was in the parlour—I saw William Griffiths strike the prisoner on the left eye with his fist—it was a very tremendous blow—he was very tipsy indeed—there was a wound, and the blood was trickling over his face—I went over to Mr. Pepper's and got a pennyworth of sticking-plaister—he was in the bar a quarter of an hour, and my brother came home and said, "What is the matter with this young man?"—my father helped him to bed between 11 and 12, and I lit the candle for him—I saw him come down from the top stairs the next morning—my father locks up the house and takes the key with him every night.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Are you the daughter of the person who keeps the beer shop? A. Yes; I attend to the bar—my father's name is William Shanes, he has not got into any trouble; the Skanes who has, is my cousin—he was not at the beer-shop that I am aware of; I know nothing at all about him—I believe he is now under charge and waiting to take his trial—he was not present at the time the blow was struck—I have never seen him and the prisoner together—the prisoner came in one evening and asked if he could have a night's lodging—he stopped two or three nights—he said that he was a smith—father took him in as a lodger, and he stopped with us two or three weeks—I do not know where he came from j I never heard him say whether he lived in London—I never saw any friend of his; he has no companions, or wife, or young woman, that I am aware of—he did not say where he worked; he went out at 6 o'clock in the morning, and came home at about 5 in the afternoon—I never heard him say where he went to—I never saw any tools of any kind, nor the keys that have been produced to-day—I do not know where he kept his tools—after Griffiths struck the prisoner, I got the strapping and some young gentleman put it on—it was black sticking-plaister, and I cut it in four pieces in the shop.

MR. ATKINSON. Q. He did not have a forge at your place? A. No—my father is here.

MARY ANN WARD . I am a dress-maker—on 17th March, at a little after 9 o'clock, I took something to Skanes' house, and saw an affray between William Griffiths and the prisoner—I saw Griffiths strike the prisoner a very severe blow, and he bled on the left eye—he was very much intoxicated—the young girl, Miss Skanes, went over to the doctor's, and I saw it dressed.; but I went away soon afterwards—I left the house between 10 and 11.

Cross-examined. How came you to be there? A. I went home with some work—I stayed some time; they were rather busy, and I went into the parlour to speak to the youngest Miss Skanes, and saw the blow struck—it took place in the parlour—there were three or four people in the parlour; I did not know them—they were men, and one was a short man who is outside, William Griffiths, the man who struck the blow—I do not

know the other people—I took the dress home for the eldest Miss Skanes—I did not see her that evening, but I went in the parlour to speak to the youngest, the one who has been here—T saw her in the parlour; two men were there besides the one who struck the blow—Mr. Skanes was in the bar, he was not in the parlour—there is a small piece of glass in the wainscoting, between the bar and the parlour—the younger Miss Skanes was in the parlour—when I said that I could not recollect anybody just now, I understood you to mean the customers—I might have been there an hour, or a little better—I was not in the parlour all that time; I had been up stairs—I was in the parlour about ten minutes, and just came in time to see the struggle, and went away very soon afterwards—I was up-stairs the rest of the hour; not fitting the dress on, it was a jacket—I had nothing to drink in the house—the people I speak of were drinking in the parlour-one gentleman had some spruce and water—I do not know whether it was Mr. Wm. Skanes—I do not know the other Mr. Skanes—I did not go before the Magistrate about this matter—I did not hear of it—I did not hear that the prisoner was taken in custody till the week before last—Elizabeth Shanes, the youngest one, spoke to me.

COURT. Q. How do you know it to be 17th March? A. It was St. Patrick's day; and, besides, I sent in a bill, which Mrs. Skanes has—I am Irish.

WILLIAM GRIFFITHS . On 17th March, in the evening, I was at the Alpha Arms—it was Saturday, and I had taken home some work that morning to my employer—the prisoner said something to me, and tore my coat very much—I was very unwell at the time, and had had a pint of ale, and I hit him on the side of the left eye; it cut him, and I assisted to stop it up afterwards with some sticking-plaister which was brought by a young female.

Cross-examined. Q. Did it make the eye black? A. No; just a little cut—there was some blood—I have only known him about two months, while he has been lodging there; I know nothing at all of him—I generally go there of a night—I used to lodge two doors past there; and during those two months I have seen him nearly every night; I do not know to a day or two—I have seen Charles Skanes there three or four times, and sometimes not at all—I do not go there every night—I believe he has got into a little trouble—I was in a little trouble at Clerkenwell—they said I had been convicted there—I went to see the prisoner at Clerkenwell a fortnight or three weeks after he was taken in custody—I was refused admittance, because they said that I had been convicted, which was false—I heard of his being taken in custody two or three days afterwards—I did not go before the Magistrate—I did not know I should be wanted for such a purpose—I heard of it from Mr. Skanes one evening when I went there after leaving work—when I struck the blow a young man, who I do not know, was in the room, and Mr. Shanes's daughter, and Mrs. Skanes; they were sitting on a chair looking at a dress, or something; I did not take particular notice—there were three women, and a man was sittting down there, but I do not know him—I think there were four or five in the room, but did not look round at them—Mr. Shanes was not there—I left between 11 and half-past.

MR. ATKINSON. Q. When they refused you admittance at the gaol, did they say that you were somebody who you were not? A. They did—I have never been convicted, but I have been in custody once or twice and discharged—I was in custody about a week one time, and another time only about an hour—one was a charge of stealing copper—I have not been convicted

on any other charge—I have been known there ten or twelve years.

COURT. A. How is it you know that this passed on 17th March? A. I took work to my father that day and was paid the bill—I do so every Wednesday and Saturday—I am paid the bill on Tuesdays or Saturdays, but I have got the bill, though not here—when I took my work in I receipted the bill.

WILLIAM SKANES . I keep the Alpha beer-bouse, Caledonian-road—I remember the prisoner being in the house on Saturday, 17th March—he received an injury in the inside room—I did not see it inflicted, but I saw it after it was done—I came home and saw the prisoner laying with his head on the tap, bleeding from the eye, and my daughter told me that a chap named Griffiths had struck him in the eye with his fist—his head had been dressed before I came home—he laid with his bead on the table some time, and I took him up stairs, and saw him to his bed-room—he was very tipsy—he had been lodging in my house—I closed the house about 12, or as near as could be, locked the door, and took the key up stairs into my own room, and put it on the table—I saw the prisoner come from up stairs next morning, about half-past 10 or a quarter to 11.

Cross-examined. Q. How long have you kept this beer-shop? A. I think it is over eight yean—if I have been unlucky enough to have any charge made against me, I believe you defended me for it—I was not charged with receiving stolen goods, but I dare say you know better than I do—there was a parcel of four or five handkerchiefs, and I was charged with receiving them, knowing them to have been stolen—two men were charged in the same indictment with committing a burglary and stealing them—they were lodging at my house—a great portion of the stolen property was not found in their rooms, that I am aware of—they were convicted—one of them was my nephew, Charles, who was charged twice with another offence—he has not since that time continued to occupy a room in my house—he has come in and out, he might come every evening, and then stop away for a week or a fortnight—I have never seen the prisoner come with him, that I know of, before this took place—I never saw them together—they have both been in the house at the same time, but not in company—the prisoner occupied the front room, at the top of the house, three weeks; I will not be certain to a day or two—that is not the same room occupied by the men who were unlucky enough to be convicted, that was on the other side of the landing—I do not know who occupied the other at the time they were lodging in the house—somebody was living there during that fortnight or three weeks—a charge was made against me, some time ago, of obstructing the police when they were trying to apprehend a thief in my house—there was not a thief in my house who they were trying to apprehend—a party was taken out of the house afterwards—he was not rescued; I did not rescue him—you were my counsel on that occasion, and you asked me to plead guilty, when I was not guilty—I did not see them trying to apprehend a thief who was rescued by other people in my house, but the police said so—on another occasion when you was not my counsel I was fined for harbouring thieves in my house—that is three or four years ago; I will swear it is more than six months ago, I will say it is very nearly two years ago—I have never been fined for assaulting the police; I have been imprisoned—I do not know whether there are any other troubles I have been engaged in—thieves have not been repeatedly taken from my house by the police, that I am aware of—a policeman might come

in without my knowledge—they may have, very likely, repeatedly taken thieves from that beer-shop—the people who were convicted when I was acquitted were, I believe, charged with a burglary of a very heavy description.

MR. ATKINSON. Q. Did you see the man suffering from the blow when you came in? A. Yes—at half-past 1 in the morning I wiped his eye when it was bleeding on the pillow, just before I went into bed.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Do you allow your lodgers latch-keys? A. Yes—and they go in and out at what hour they like, but not after 12 o'clock—I always lock the door and carry the key up with me—I did not go before the Magistrate; this man was taken before we knew of it—he was living in the house at the time, but he was taken on another case; I did not know of this charge against him till he was committed for trial—I was not actually at the police-court—he was remanded for three weeks the last week, but he was committed the first week.

COURT to WILLIAM TAYLOR. Q. Was this a wound which could have been inflicted by the blow of a fist? A. It did not appear to me as if it was; it was an incised wound—it was in the outer angle of the left eye, and was dressed, apparently, with collodion, not with sticking-plaister.

GUILTY .— DEATH recorded.

The Court awarded 5l. to the witness Levi. There was another indictment against the prisoner, for which see page 126.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-460
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

Related Material

460. JOHN INGRAM (34) , Feloniously cutting and wounding William Howe, with intent to murder him. Second Count, with intent to do him some grievous bodily harm.

MR. MCDONNELL conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM HOWE . I am a stone polisher, of 8, Old Pye-street, Westminster—on Thursday evening, 29th March, I was going home, and saw the prisoner's wife and her sister-in-law ill-using my sister—the prisoner came down afterwards, took his wife away, and then he began ill-usiug my sister—I said that he was a cowardly fellow, and asked him whether he would fight me—he said that he had something in doors which would fight me, and ran in; I ran away home—next evening about 6 o'clock, I was coming from my work, and saw the prisoner standing by my door; there were about twenty or thirty people there—I heard the prisoner say, that he would have my b—liver—I was stopped from going into my house, but the prisouer was taken away by some of his friends—I then went in and had my tea, after which I went out and spoke to a policeman on the beat, telling him that I was in danger of my life—about 9 o'clock I saw a crowd pass near the corner of Strutton-ground, Westminster—a man was being pursued by a constable—I ran about ten yards to the corner of Grey-coat-place, where I stopped, and all of a sudden I had a tremendous blow on the forehead; I fell to the ground, looked at the prisoner and said, "For God's sake, Ingram, do not kill me"—he said, "I will do for you, you b—"—I do not remember a second blow, I fell to the ground and became insensible—I came to myself as they took me towards the police-station—I was taken from there to the hospital—I never had any quarrel with the prisoner except on the previous night, about his acting in a cowardly way—I had this cap on when I was struck (produced), here are two marks on my forehead.

Cross-examined by MR. DICKIE. Q. Is it not true that you and your relations have been for some time back quarrelling with the prisoner? A. Never—I never had any communication with the man to the present time, except

saying, "Good morning," and "Good afternoon"—none of my relations have been annoying him that I know of, barring my sister—I did not fight with him on this occasion, I never kicked his sister or wife—I was on the kerb when I got this knock, the prisoner was behind me at the time, and I was on the kerb; I could not see him.

MR. MCDONNELL. Q. Were you at this time in the employ of Messrs. Cubitt? A. Yes, till this occurrence; I am now with Mr. Whitehead.

THOMAS HOPKINS . On the evening of 30th March, I saw a mob at the corner of Strutton-ground; the prisoner and prosecutor were there—I saw the prisoner take this poker (produced) out of his breast pocket and strike the prosecutor on the forehead; he was knocked down; he said. "For God's sake, Jack Ingram, do not kill me"—the prisoner then struck him again on the forehead and ran away—I took Howe to the Hospital.

Cross-examined. Q. How near were you to the prisoner? A. About two feet away—there was nobody intervening between us; I have had no quarrel with the prisoner; Howe was not a friend of mine—I was looking towards the prisoner, I do not know why I did so, but I was right facing him—they call me Newgate Jack—I have been convicted once, and only once; I have been once or twice in custody—besides they call me Newgate Jack for fun; I am satisfied to have that name—I was convicted on suspicion, I had done nothing at all—I did not after this go to the prisoner's residence, take up stones and shy them at his windows; I went to the hospital.

MR. MCDONNELL. Q. When you were in the mob were you threatened by the prisoner's sister? A. Yes—it is twelve months since I was convicted—I am a costermonger.

THOMAS WEST (Policeman, B 53). I went in search of the prisoner and found him on the roof of a house in Duck-lane; two other officers were with me—when we got about three feet from him he said we need not trouble ourselves any further, and came down very quietly with us—I had this poker in my hand on the way to the station—I mentioned nothing about it, but the prisoner said he knew nothing of it—I got this cap from Howtf, in this condition.

Cross-examined. Q. Were there not other people given in charge by the prosecutor first of all? A. No; that is ft mistaken idea—a man named Adams was taken first of all for some other offence which occurred in Peter-street, and when he got in he said, "I am charged with cutting Howe's head open"—I said, "No, you are not"—another policeman preferred a charge against him next morning; he was not given in charge for this offence—the prisoner keeps pigeons, but not the house where he was found; he was six houses away from his own house.

SIDNEY EDWARD CLARK . I am house-surgeon at Westminster Hospital—Howe was brought there on 30th March bleeding from two contused wounds on the forehead, one in the centre and one over the left eye—the longest one laid the bone bare to the extent of a sixpence; it was not bleeding much, but it had been from the appearance of his clothes—he was under my care about a month, and those wounds might have been produced by this poker, and I should think it would also produce the cut in this cap; I hate placed the cap over the wound and the cut appears to correspond exactly.

Witnesses for the Defence.

WILLIAM ADAMS . I was present at the row on 30th March, and was had up for an assault—I thought I was taken up for this, as Howe charged me with cutting him on the eye going home—Howe never came to the station at all—I was near both to Howe and the prisoner, stopping them from fighting

it was about ten minutes to 9 o'clock—I know them as neighbours, they are relations—I saw no poker.

COURT Q. Did you see the blows—struck? A. I saw them fight two rounds in the street; I went to part them and saw Howe kicking the prisoner on the ground, and that was the cause of my being locked up.

Cross-examined by MR. MCDONNELL. Q. You were running away, were you not, and the policeman after you? A. Not at the time they were fighting; I will swear I saw them fighting, it was about 20 minutes to 9—I knew the time, because it was half past 8 when I went into the Elephant and Castle—neither of them were stripped—Howe had a flannel jacket on—I will swear he had not on the same jacket that he now has—I got kicked by a policeman twice, and was running away home—he told me to get out of the way—two rounds were fought—I should not like to say who knocked the other down—they were both on the ground together—it was a scramble—I was close to the prisoner, on the kerb—I did not see any blood till Howe came running after me and gave me in charge—I saw no poker used; if it had been I must have seen it—I saw blood on Howe's forehead after I was taken in charge, not before—I did not see a cap thrown up in the air, or knocked off Howe's head.

COURT Q. Whose custody were you in? A. Two policeman of the V. division; it was after that that Howe came running up—I was not given in custody for wounding him, I was already in custody when he came up—it was not 3 minutes after the fighting that Howe came running up; it was not the distance of 100 yards—they are distant relations, this man's brother has married that man's wife's sister.

ELIZA BALLARD . I was in the crowd on 30th March—Mr. and Mrs. Ingram went out about 6 or 7 o'clock—I stayed at my door, William Howe, my sister's husband's brother, and Newgate Jack, came to Duck-lane—I told them Mr. Howe was not in the house, he had gone out; they sat on the step, and said they would wait there till he came home—I then called Mr. Howe at the public-house—he came out, threw off his coat, and challenged Mr. Ingram to fight; after that they went up to the public-house at the corner—Howe went in a second time, and challenged Ingram again—they fought outside the public-house, and the witness's mother and me parted them—Howe struck me, and as I was getting up, kicked me, and I have got a doctor's certificate to prove it—I went to the hospital the same night, to the same doctor—it was a regular stand-up fight—Howe kicked two of my teeth out—I saw no blows struck with any weapon, only with fists.

Cross-examined. Q. And this was on the 30th, not the 29th? A. It was the same night that this occurcd, it was Friday night, not Thursday—Howe, and the prisoner, and I, had been together about 10 minutes on that Thursday—Howe's sister's husband was also there, the prisoner, me, and Mr. Adams, and Newgate Jack, and a few people besides—the prisoner challenged first, but I do not know who struck first—I saw no weapons used—I did not see Howe struck by the prisoner with a poker; all I see was that Howe took off his coat, and struck Mr. Ingram—and Mrs. Ingram, and Newgate Jack was with him—Howe had on a black frock coat—I am the prisoner's sister-in-law, and the other one is my sister's husband's brother—I have not been committed to prison on a charge of rescuing a person named Biggs; I did not do anything of the kind—I was sent to prison for a month fcr rescuing Adams—I suffered imprisonment for assaulting a girl the day before; that was a family affair altogether.

MR. DICKIE. Q. Has there been quarrelling for some time? A. Yes; for twelve months, ever since Howe's brother has been married to my sister, there has been nothing else—they were drunk, and Howe was drunk as well.

COURT to THOMAS WEST. Q. Where did you get the poker? A. From some of the bystanders—I first saw Howe between 5 and 6 the same evening, when he came and made some complaint to me—I saw him again when he had been lifted off the ground—he was bleeding, and appeared to be insensible—he came to the station after he had been taken to the hospital—he was not in a condition to run after anybody; he could not have done it—Watkins is one person who was with him—I recommended him the hospital, but they brought him to the station—I afterwards went to the hospital and met him, he made no charge against anybody but the prisoner—he may brought to the station from 3 to 5 minutes after I saw him picked up.

MR. DICKIE. Q. Did any of the bystanders state anything about the poker? A No.

GUILTY of unlawfully wounding. Confined Nine Months.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-461
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

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461. THOMAS BUTLER (23), Was indicted for a rape upon Johanna Walsh.

The Prosecutrix did not appear, and MR. LMWIS for the Prosecution stated that he could not proceed in her absence; and must offer no evidence against the prisoner.


THIRD COURT, Monday, May 14th, 1860.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Sixth Jury.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-462
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

462. CHARLES LONGLAND (45) , Embezzling 2l. 9s. of Elizabeth Maria Pasley and another, his mistresses.

MR. ROBINSON conducted the Prosecution.

FREDERICK TILL . I am manager to Elizabeth Maria Pasley and another, wholesale milliners, of 2, Forster-street, City-road—the prisoner came into their service in 1858, as traveller—his salary was 1l. a week, and 2 1/2 per cent commission on what he sold; which made his salary over 5l. a week—his duty was to sort out the stock, and go to the customers—the stock was kept on the premises, he selected what he thought fit, and put it in his own boxes—two or three times he used to tell us that one, or two, or three lots were taken—I never checked the stock that he had selected—it was his duty to take it to our own customers—he used to make a duplicate of the invoices he left, to give one invoice to the customer, and bring one home—the one he brought home ought to contain the amount he received for the goods; and there was a general statement made of what he had sold, and what he had received during the day—that would not be made in duplicate—here is an invoice, of 18th March, in his writing—the a, mouirt, is 6l. 8s. 6d.—the goods to the amount of 6l. 8s. 6d. had been sold to Mr. Gibbons, and the money received by the prisoner—we ought to have had the impression of this—the marks are on the back, showing that this has been prepared with the apparatus, but the one that we received of this same date, 18th March, is only 5l. 15s. 4d.—the difference between the two is 13s. 2d.—the second

invoice is not a duplicate of the others, but this one appears to have been made also by a manifold writer.

COURT. Q. Though the second is not a duplicate of the first, has it been written by a manifold writer? A. Yes; the second invoice as well as the first—the pencil would make one impression, and the black under it would make the other impression.

MR. ROBINSON. Q. Then the manifold writer must have been used twice to make the two invoices? A. Yes—I was not at all aware that he was selling goods on his own account—I have here the general statement of the day—the prisoner here debits himself 5l. 15s. 4d., instead of 6l. 8s. 6d.—here is another invoice of 8th April, for 7l. 11s. 9d.—this was written by a manifold writer; and this other document which purports to be a copy under the black sheet, is 6l. 13s. 11d., a difference of 17s. 10d.; and in the general account of that day, he debits himself with the smaller amount, 6l. 13s. 11d.—here is another invoice of 20th May, of 8l. 11s. 8d.—this appears to have been made with the manifold writer, and the one he returned purports to be written by the manifold writer; and this is 8l. 1s., making a deficiency of 10s. 8d.—in the general account for that day, he accounts for 8l. 1s.—there is an invoice on 7th May, in the name of Briggs, for 3l. 11s. 9d., sold by him to Messrs. Gibbons—in November the prisoner told me he wished to leave—I told him he might leave at once, and he did leave; and two or three months after, these things were discovered and inquiries were made.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. When did you discover these defalcations? A. Ten days or a fortnight before he was taken—I only found it out on the Wednesday, as a letter was sent on the Saturday—the letter was received on 16th or 17th March—I took it to Mr. Lewis—the letter threatened some legal proceedings in consequence of what had been said about the prisoner—he was not taken in custody, I believe, till 27th March—I did not go with the policeman to arrest him—I did not, during that ten days, ask the prisoner to come and investigate the account, and explain what was irregular—I gave him no intimation that I was about to take proceedings against him—he and I were on the best of terms—he told us he was about to leave—Miss Pasley told him he miyht leave—I knew that all the while he was with us, he had a shop of his own at Hornsey for such articles as hosiery, haberdashery, and such things—on various occasions, 21 months ago, he bought of me goods on his own account for his own shop—I do not know that he was manufacturing the very same description of goods, and that he had work-people of his own—he did net, in 1859, purchase not merely cap fronts, but ribbons and flowers, and such things of us; he might before that, to the amount of 10s. altogether—he used to select property and put it in his own boxes; and two or three times he told me the amount he took out—on two or three occasions, he informed me what goods he had selected—on his coming back in the evening and returning his stock, I did not make an entry of the stock which he retnrned in a book—the goods he did not sell he brought back into the warehouse in the evening—I used, on Monday morning, to take an account of the stock with the prisoner; of the stock remaining in his boxes—the account taken would be the stock which had been taken by him, between 5th May, and the 12th; and he and I would take that stock together—he put them down on a paper—this stock-taking took place in the warehouse; the prisoner and I and the goods being there—he would make it on a piece of paper, and I would make the entry in a book; and that book I used to

keep containing the entries from week to week—we bad a person in our Soy at the same time, named Lee—Loe would not be prsent when thw Sock was taken—he used to accompany the prisoner ip his journeys—he was the man who used to drive—he did not assist in taking the stock, and putting it in the boxes—sometimes that taking the stock and putting it in boxes in the warehouse, was done by the prisoner himself; and sometimes by me only—there were no other persons in the same employ, in the same position as the prisoner—I have not found errors in any person's stock beside the defendant's—I have complimented the prisoner on his punctuality in being there in the morning—I have not complimented him on the faithfulness and accuracy of all his dealings—I have never said so to Hawkins—the prosecutrixes have never said so in my presence; I never heard them express that of him—his commission account was settled every month—it would amount to 16l. or 17l. a month—before this charge was made and before I went round to the customers, I knew that he was manufacturing and selling the same description of goods on his own account—I have not said that I would drive him off the road, and crush him—I did not hear it solemnly alleged by a Person who was afterwards a witness, that I said I would crush him, if it cost—me 100l., and drive him off the road—I did not hear any person, witness or no witness, state that in my hearing, and charge me with having said so—I never heard Mr. Grimwood say that he heard me say so—I never said so to Mr. Gorman—I have not said to Mr. Dolman that I would ruin Longman, and that Miss Pasleys would rain him and drive him off the road, if it cost 100l.—I never made use of such language to Mr. Gorman—I believe he is in the same trade—I dont know She carries on business—I have never dealt with him—I know two young ladies named Swinfen, who manufacture the same description of goods—I don't know that they are making the same description ofgoods for Mr. Longland—I know that they are manufacturing the same description of goods—I believe they are in the employ of Mr. Longland—I have not said to those young ladies that I would drive him off the road, and crush him—I have spoken to them, but I never said anything of that kind to the elder or the younger of them; nor that the defendant had acted shabbily, in setting up in the same line of business.

MR. ROBINSON Q. You have been asked whether he has been complimented; but if you had not you had no reason to suppose he acted dishonestly? A. No—we have found eighty or ninety such invoices as this, where he has made double invoices, and given one to the customer, and one to us—I went through the stock from January, 1859 to December 1859, and found the deficiency was just upon four hundred dozen—we take stock every twelve months—I took it in January 186O—the prisoner's stock was checked on Monday mornmgs—I had not any means of checking it, except by the statement that he gave me of what he took out, so that if he had taken out twice as many as he told me no discovery would hive been made—I found this out three days before the letter was written—it took me about a week or ten days to go round to the various customers to ascertain this—I was pursuing it at the time this letter—was written and I went on with it—I did not ask the prisoner for an explanation—Misses Pasley employ perhaps fifty or sixty persons making the articles but whatever number of persons are there, the warehouses ate quite distinct, and the counting-house distinct—we take stock every January from year to year, and our stock would show what good or harm we have do, by going through the stock, and entering the quantity made up, and the

quantity sold—there was a deficiency of four hundred dozen—I did not make an investigation to ascertain whether there was any deficiency between 1858 and 1859; we went through the books with another object.

COURT. Q. The taking stock not enabling you to say whether there was deficiency or not, how did you proceed in March to ascertain the deficiency? A. We went to the books and entered what we had on the 1st of January, and the quantity we had come in, and the stock we had sold, and what remained, and found there was four hundred dozen deficient.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. You buy raw materials, and manufacture them, and to each workman there is an account of the materials given, and the number of dozens manufactured? A. Yes—we have the amount of raw materials given to each workman during the year, and what is made up; and that is all manifest on the face of our books—the raw materials have nothing to do with it—we count what we have come in—it is my duty or Miss Pasley's to enter the return from the manufacturer—the books were in the premises when the prisoner was there—I did not make the examination till we took him in custody.

MR. ROBINSON. Q. Do you know that an appointment was made at the solicitor's office? A. Yes; the books were there for hours—there was no question at that time as to a deficiency in the stock—I was before the police magistrate the whole time—the statement that there was a deficiency of four hundred dozen was made before the Magistrate.

COURT. Was it before that statement was made that the prisoner saw the books? A. Yes—I am not aware that I had then told the prisoner that there was any deficiency in the stock.

JAMES GRAHAM LEWIS . I am a solicitor. To the best of my recollection this deficiency was stated at every examination—I am quite confident it was stated before the last examination—the witnesses were ordered out of court, and the prisoner examined the books with reference to that charge—a card was produced to the Magistrate by Mr. Till, showing the deficiency—I was in the office about an hour and a half, and they were there during the whole time—I told Mr. Longland to stop in my office as long as he liked, and ho might come another day.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you hear Mr. Till say that that deficiency was not found till after the last examination? A. Yes, and the learned counsel said if it was embezzlement it must be stealing too.

EDWARD GRIMWOOD . I am shop walker to Messrs. Gibbons—I purchased cap fronts from the prisoner—I paid him the money for this invoice of March the 18th—I saw him write the invoice—he has sold me goods on his own account—I made a complaint to him about some fronts, and he sold me some others—he said, "I don't like your changing; I like to have the serving of you; I will see what I can do for you"—and he sent some in with an invoice that had no name on it; but I mentioned it, and he afterwards put the name of Briggs on it—I dare say I was there when he called, and I paid him for them—in this invoice the difference consists in the very first item—here is one hundred and twenty fronts at 5s. 6d., and the duplicate contains ninety—the difference is thirty single ones more in the first than in the second invoice—I don't know how this difference came—in this first invoice of 8th April, here is one hundred and seventy-six fronts, 7l. 11s. 9d.—I paid him that money in the second invoice; it is one hundred and thirty-six fronts—on 20th May the first invoice is one hundred and seventy-four, 8l. 11s. 8d., and one hundred and fifty are alleged to have been brought—on the same day I purchased other goods in the name of Briggs to the

amount of 3l. 11s. 9d—I paid him that on Mr. Briggs' account, and the other on Miss Pasley's.

Cross-examined. Q. Was not what he said to you, that as he did not like your changing he would see what he could do himself? A. I believe he did; it conveyed that to my mind—I have had some conversation with Mr. Till about Mr. Longland—he said, "Longland has done very wrong in making up goods, and selling them on his own account while in our employ."—he said he would put somebody on the road at his heels to sell goods at such an tinder price that he would drive him off the road, and sell at a price that he could not compete with—these 5s. 6d. caps are a different quality to those at 4s. 9d—some of the 5s. 6d. ones have got flowers—it appeared as if Long-land was making up goods, and selling them.

MR. ROBINSON. Q. As you know his name, how did you come to take the invoice in another name? A. My impression was that he was selling for himself—I don't know that it was so.

Witnesses for the Defence.

ELIZABETH SWINFEN . I live in Ashley-crescent, New North-road, and am a milliner and cap-front maker—I know the prisoner, he was in the service of the Miss Pasleys—I have been employed by the prisoner to make up cap-fronts, about last January twelve months—I and my sister made up sometimes two or three dozen in a week—we made them out of materials supplied by Mr. Longland—when we made them we sometimes delivered them to Mr. Longland, and sometimes to Jane Wingrove—I know Mr. Longland had a shop of his own and that he used to go about with a van—these cap-fronts when made would be of various prices—some would be 5s. 6d.; I have made many at that price—they are made of blond or lace—besides these goods, I have made up goods for him that I have sent to customers—I have delivered them sometimes in the name of Briggs—that was in addition to the goods I gave to the prisoner—I began to make in January 1659—I made during March, April, and May in last year—I have had some conversation with Mr. Till about Mr. Longland—he did not say exactly that he would crush or ruin him; he said if it cost him 100l. Longland should not stand—that was soon after Mr. Longland commenced business.

Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. When did he say that? A. Before last Christmas—I began to make for Mr. Longland in January, 1859—this was said just after he began business—he had got a shop; he took another place at the latter end of last year, at Ashley-crescent—I have worked in his employ—he is married—I and my sister, and five or six others work for him—from January to November he lived at Hornsey; he hat a shop there—at that time my little girl used to meet him with the goods—she met him sometimes at the Windsor Castle, and sometimes at Pickford's, and some-i times in the street—mjfc little girl is about fourteen yean old.

COURT. Q. The prisoner told you to send them in the name of Briggs, did he say why? A. I never asked him.

MR. POLAND. Q. Is where you live now at the prisoner's place of business? A. Yes; when I lived at 36, Wigmore-street, I worked for him.

JANE WINGROVE . I work for Miss Swinfen—I did so when she lived in Wigmore-street—I remember her making up cap-fronts for the prisoner—I have seen him there, and he has brought goods to be made up—when the caps have been made up, they have been given to me to deliver—I used to take all that were ordered to the shop—sometimes I have met him and given the goods to him—the goods which I took to the shop were in the

name of Briggs—I have taken goods to Mr. Longland when he has been in the van every week—they were cap-fronts—I was in their service in March, April, and May, last year.

WILLIAM THOMPSON . I am in the employ of North and Co., Caunon-street, wholesale warehousemen—I know the prisoner, he was a customer of our firm during the year 1859—I have sold him goods that would make up into cap-fronts—edging, and quilling, and blond—he bought goods of that description; I can't tell exactly to what amount.

GEORGE TYSON . I am in the service of Eagles and Co.—I know the prisoner, he was a customer of our firm—we sold him goods from April to November, edging and quilling; they are used for making up cap-fronts—in April and May last, to the amount of 15l. 9s.

RICHARD MILLS . I am in the service of Messrs. Tull, of Aldermaubury—I know the prisoner—in 1858 and 1859, he has bought goods of our firm for caps; he continued to do so in March, April, and May, to the amount of about 25l.

JAMES WESTON . I am a gofferer, and I live in Curzon-street, New North-road—I know the prisoner; I have goffered caps and cap fronts for him in last year, and in 1858—I did many of them for him, three or four gross in a week.

GEORGE LEE . I reside in Curzon-street, New North-road—I was formerly in the prosecutrix's employ—I drove the van that the prisoner went with—I have seen the girl who is here, bring Mr. Longland cap-fronts and other goods.

STEPHEN HAWKINS . I am a traveller; I was formerly in the employ of Misses Pasley—I used to go with goods from week to week—when the stock was taken Miss Pasley and Mr. Till selected the goods, and they were put in the boxes—I have sometimes been short of my stock, and Mr. Till has asked me how I was short when Mr. Longland's stock was always correct—I used to account every month for the stock I took out.

Cross-examined. Q. Did your entry depend on what you said you had taken? A. Yes; I am now a wholesale milliner, and I drive a cab.

MR. POLAND. Q. You say the stock was taken in Miss Pasley's and Mr. Till's presence; was it possible for any traveller to take away out of the premises without its being known, 400 dozen of fronts? A. I think not.

EDMUND DOLMAN . I live in Windsor-terrace, City-road—I know Mr. Till, he has spoken to me about the prisoner—about a week or ten days before Christmas, he had a conversation about the prisoner's having begun business—I said, alluding to the prosecutrix, "It must make a material difference to your returns"—he said, "Aye, he won't last long, we are busy now being just before Christmas, but wait till after Christmas and we will make up such goods as he will not be able to touch"—he said, "We don't mind losing a hundred or-two, but we will wind him up."

The prisoner received a good character. NOT GUILTY . (See page 133.)

FOURTH COURT, Monday, May 14th, 1860.


Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq., and the Fifth Jury.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-463
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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463. PHILIP JACOB MENDLE (46) , Unlawfully conspiring, with other persons unknown, to defraud Wilhelm Weisenbach of his goods and monies.

MR. GENT conducted the Prosecution.

WILHELM WEISENBACH (Through an Interpreter). I live at 20, Newman-street, Oxford-street, and am a merchant—I know the prisoner—on 9th January I saw him in Holborn, at the post-office, Soutnarapton-street; he asked me something in English which I said I did not understand—then he said, "Oh you are a German, I am very glad to see a German; I am only three days back from Australia, I am looking out for a banker, in order to change some Austrian bank notes"—he then said it was somewhat too early for that, and as he intended to go to the British Museum, he asked me whether I would go there with him—we did not go there—I know now that we were only about three hundred paces from the British Museum—he said he would take me there, and we started—he accosted several persons on the way, and as he told me afterwards, asked them the way to the British Museum in English—we went on for some time and I then proposed to go to a public-house and have a glass of beer—we had then been walking about an hour, we went into a public-house; another man met us, and the prisoner spoke to him, he spoke all in English—the prisoner then said to me, that the other man was going the same way as we, and we were to follow him—we all three went on—on the way the prisoner told me that this gentleman was from the country, that he had inherited a large fortune, and was about to go on the continent—the Englishman then said he was very sorry not to be able to understand us as we were talking German; he then said it was too late to go to the British Museum, and invited us to take a glass of wine; we then went to a house, I don't know where it was; the Englishman asked for a bottle of port wine, and after that was emptied, he invited the prisoner to drink another bottle with him—(all that I say now about this I only know from what the prisoner told me afterwards, because they were always talking English—) the prisoner said he would not accept it, he would rather play for it—another bottle was ordered, and the prisoner and the Englishman played for it, they played with a little book that the prisoner had shown me on the way, to show me bow cheap he had bought it, it opened with ribbons on both sides, this (produced) is one like it; the prisoner put on one side a gold piece and on the other side a piece of silver, and made the Englishman guess—they took each three pieces of paper or wood as counters, and whoever lost these three, lost the bottle—the Englishman lost the bottle and was very glad of it—they had to guess in which leaf of the book it was, the money was put inside the book; the prisoner placed the book on the table, and after the Englishman had guessed, he opened it, and whoever guessed right, won—I took no part in it at all then, they talked together in English, and then the prisoner invited me to play also—I had my gold snuffbox on the table, and the prisoner told me to stake it against their money, I did so, and a little while after the prisoner told me I had lost it, that was done with the same book—he made the Englishman guess again and told me I had lost—he then took it up from the table; nothing else was done there—all three of us left the place and went to another place, from there we went to a third place; I think we went in a cab—I don't know the name of the street—I believe the landlord is here—we went to a public-house, they took me there to a parlour, and began a new game—I said I had not so much money with me—at this time I had only had some coffee to drink besides the wine—the prisoner proposed a new game, and invited me to stake something against them—I had a gold brooch with a pearl and rubies, and I staked it, together with some money, against some bank notes and gold and the prisoner's watch—I put down my brooch, four ducats,

three five thaler notes, and some sovereigns; I don't know exactly how many, two or three sovereigns—the prisoner then tied the whole of that in my yellow silk handkerchief, the whole stakes on each side—the prisoner made the Englishman guess with the same book, and he lost two chalks—then they talked together a great deal, and the prisoner said the Englishman did not like to guess again with the book, and told me to place either a piece of gold or silver whichever he gave me under a hat, and then the Englishman would guess—I did so, and the Englishman guessed three times, and then the prisoner said the Englishman had won—the handkerchief containing the stakes laid on the table, and the prisoner then told me to follow him out into the street for a moment; he told me he would go home in a cab to fetch some more money which he had at home, and come back again in half an hour—he begged me to remain there and to converse with the Englishman as well as I could in the meanwhile—I then came back into the house; I found the Englishman gone and the handkerchief too—I immediately went back into the street and I saw the prisoner running as fast as he could—I ran after him but could not catch him, it was dark—I went back to the public-house and the landlord there sent me with somebody to the police-station—I did not see anything more then of the prisoner or my property which I had lost—about eight weeks ago I saw the prisoner and Englishman again in Silver-street, Soho; the prisoner was iu a shop and the Englishman about five steps from it—as soon as the Englishman saw me, he turned and off he went—I ran after him, but another person came just into my way and kept me back—when I came back to the shop, of course the other man was gone—I could not see a policeman, I was obliged to let him go—I did not see the prisoner again till I saw him at the police-court at Bow-street—I am sure the prisoner is the man who went with me to these places—the value of the property I lost is about 70l. odd.

Cross-examined by MR. DICKIE. Q. Where was it you lived on the continent? A. In Berlin; I was a chocolate merchant there, and was also agent for a jeweller—I was obliged to give up the agency, and the gentleman who kept the other business also gave it up, and as I would not begin anything that moment at Berlin fresh, I came over here—I only understand German; I came over here partly to learn English, and also to see if the business here was better than there—I have been in England since 6th January—I was looking about to see if I could get some business in Loudon—it was not the Colosseum the prisoner asked for, I swear that—I don't know what the Colosseum here is—I said before that I invited the prisoner first into & public-house; we were in there a few minutes—I swear it was not an hour, it was not fifteen minutes, it was not half an hour, because to drink a glass of beer and eat a bit of cheese you don't take half an hour—I was not sufficiently acquainted with English to know what was passing between the prisoner and the Englishman—I only understand a few words of English—all that I know of this transaction came from what the prisoner told me—the prisoner showed me the book on the way, before we met the Englishman—he said he had bought it in the street for a penny, opened it to me and put in one side a postage stamp and a card, and on the other side was nothing; he said it could be opened on both sides and nobody could know on which side the things were—I did not correct the interpreter just now when he was speaking English, I corrected myself—I said at first that the prisoner put the postage stamp on one side and the card on the other, and then I said they were both on the same side—I did not then make up my mind to gamble—the prisoner invited me to gamble, and I was somehow, I

don't know, quite powerless, quite incapable of having my own will—I did not ask for a cab myself after we left the first place—I think we went in a cab—the next place we went to, was a coffee-house—I did not say I would have my revenge out of the Englishman, and invite him to come and play with me—I don't know that I drank anything at the coffee-house; after the prisoner had gone and when I came back with the policeman, then in order to quiet my hot blood and excitement, I drank some soda-water—I was in such a state I don't know how to express it, but I would have given them anything they asked for—I had a watch after all this bad occurred; I went home with it—I had two rings also—I did not lose either—the prisoner had a very large gold watch with a large gold chain—I think these are them (produced)—they are part of things which he placed on stake against mine; they were placed in the handkerchief—I can't swear that that is the same watch, but it is exactly like it, and the chain also; I believe them to be the same—as soon as I saw the book at the police-court, I recognised it immediately—I was three times at Westminster and once at Bow-street—I have not been asked to compound this with the prisoner—I don't know what this paper is—I know a person named Clare; I did not authorize him to go and settle the matter for me—I got a pawn ticket from him, but no money, this is the ticket (produced)—I stood at the top of the street while Clare went into some house which was said to be the prisoner's—he did not go in at my request—I have not seen Clare here—he did not bring anything out of the house—I have been to the prisoner's house to see his wife on this matter—Clare came to me and brought me that ticket, and he told me that the prisoner's wife had asked him to come there again, and if I wished I could go with him; a friend of mine who interpreted between me and Clare told me to go, because Clare believed that the prisoner's wife wanted to settle the matter amicably, which I should certainly have liked very much, if I could have got my things back again—the brooch and snuff-box were not the property of my employers at Berlin; I did not tell the prisoner that—they are mine—I did not tell the prisoner that I had not paid for them—I have got the ticket back—I don't know what became of Clare—I saw him last night in Oxford-street in a public-house—when I went with Clare, and we left the prisoner's house, he went back afterwards alone.

MR. GENT. Q. Was the brooch you lost, a diamond brooch? A. Yes; pearls, rubies, and diamonds—it is here—I felt powerless at the second bottle of wine—I was sober when I went out of the public-house—I have not seen my property since.

WILLIAM SIMPSON . I keep the Old Red Lion, 87, St. John-street-road, Clerkenwell—three men came into my house on 9th January I think—I saw the prosecutor after the occurrence; he was there that night with two other men—I can't say whether the prisoner is one of them—they were there about 6 o'clock in the evening—the one who ordered some soda-water was, I believe, English—I did not look at the others—I did not see them doing anything—after they had gone out, the prosecutor came back and said something to me—one of the other men went out first; I can't say whether it was the Englishman; it was not the prosecutor, he was the last out.

Cross-examined. Q. You say that only one went out? A. Yes; my house has a front and back entrance—they went out different ways, and the prosecutor was left in the house—I did not see them play; I had no idea gambling was going on—I took the soda-water in—they were there about ten minutes—I did not see the other man only just for a moment as he was going out, but the prosecutor came back to me and said, "Me robbed,

me robbed"—I could hardly understand him—he could not speak English; it was done more by motions than by words.

WALTER HOLMES (Policeman, 3 F.) I took the prisoner in the Seven-dials along with another man on Tuesday, 17th of last month—I told him I should take him in custody for conspiring to defraud a man out of 24l.—he made some motion to make out that he did not understand me—he did not say anything relative to this charge—I said something to him about it—I searched him and found on him this brass chain and pinchbeck watch, about 1l. in silver, a pocket-book with some duplicates, and this card (produced); I found a great many of these cards at his lodgings, two locks used for conjuring, and a cigar-case which is also used for conjuring—I brought three watches away and a silver snuff-box—I produce this little book; I found another of the same sort at his lodgings.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you not know perfectly well that these boxes can be bought for almost nothing? A. Yes; I believe so—the prisoner's wife gave me these medals representing sovereigns.

GUILTY .— Confined Two Years.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-464
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

464. GEORGE TAYLOR (27) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of James Walmsley, and stealing therein 180 reels of silk, 190 balls of silk, and 39 bundles of silk, the property of Joseph Surr and another. Second Count, Feloniously receiving the same.

MR. RIBTON conducted the Prosecution.

JOSEPH SURR, JUN . I am in partnership with my father, a silk manufacturer, in King-street, Cheapside—On the evening of 19th August I left the ware-house about half-past 5; it was then perfectly safe—I left my father writing a letter; he left after me—I came there in the morning about five minutes before 9—I found the place in the greatest confusion; the doors I could not unlock because somebody had been attempting to pick them—I found all the doors open inside, and an iron safe broken open; three cash-boxes containing documents, among others my father's will, were scattered about—nearly 500l. worth of silk was lost—the silk was shown to me about twelve days afterwards, on 1st September, at the police-station in Bow-lane—I have samples of it here—I identified it as mine—I am sure of it—about a fifth part of what was lost has been found.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Where do you get your silk from? A. We buy it raw, and we get it from Staffordshire—it is our make—no one sleeps in the warehouse—I believe some one sleeps in the dwelling-house; our warehouse is on the first floor—the housekeeper could not get into the warehouse at all—a panel was taken out—there is a door leading from the warehouse to the dwelling-house—any person in possession of the premises could lock and unlock that door—we lock the door—you pass the door to go up-stairs.

MR. RIBTON. Q. Is there another warehouse underneath your's? A. Yes, a fringe warehouse—a burglary was committed there the same night.

JOSEPH SURR , Senior. I left my premises about a quarter before 6 on the evening of 19th August, under three locks; two patent locks and another, and took the keys home.

Cross-examined. Q. Did they get into your room by cutting away a panel? A. Yes—the front door has no key-hole—we never leave our property without a person who has charge of the house—they had opened the lock of the street door to get in—they did not go away till half-past 6—the clock was stopped at half-past 1; it never stopped before.

ELIZABETH BURTON . I live in this house where Mr. Surr carries on his business, four floors up—I closed the house on 19th August at 9, or five minutes after 9 o'clock; everything was safe then.

THOMAS LOVERIDGE . I am a silk factor at Bromley in Kent—I heard of Mr. Suit's premises being plundered—a reward was offered—I went to the Eastern Counties Railway in consequence of some previous communication—I saw the prisoner there; another man named Angus was with him; he has since been tried, convicted, and sentenced to fifteen years' penal servitude (see vol. 50. p. 625)—I had some conversation with them—when I started in a cab from the City there was a man with me—I don't know anything about him; he was no friend of mine—he got out when we got to the railway station, and then three other men got into the cab, one of whom was the prisoner; the cab was then driven to a public-house called the Knave of Clubs—we all got out of the cab; one man disappeared and I was left with the prisoner, and the man who has been tried here—they asked me to walk with them a short distance to see the silk—I did so, and we went into a house, where some silk was produced—it consisted of two or three kinds—I selected one kind, which I said I would buy—I asked them the price they wanted for it—Angus said 11s.—the prisoner first objected to taking that sum for his portion—I offered them 10s.; they eventually agreed to take it—I then asked them if they had any more of the same kind; they said they had, and would take me in five minutes to where the remainder was—I directed them to put the lot which I had offered 10s. for into the cab—the prisoner put it into a bag, and was in the act of carrying the bag towards the cab, when he saw the officers; he immediately dropped the bag and made off.

COURT. Q. Did you see his eyes in the direction of the officers? A. Yes; and the bag was immediately dropped; he ran off, and as far as I am concerned, there is an end of him—I saw him at the Mansion-house in March last; I have no doubt about his being the man—the silk was picked up by one of the officers—there were thirty-nine pounds of silk in the bag; that would be the lot I bought.

Cross-examined Q. Was somebody known by you to be there watching them when you went to this place? A. And watching me—it was Mr. Surr who sent for me—I don't know the man who brought me to that place—I was not in communication with him until after I saw Mr. Surr—I have known Mr. Surr nearly twenty-five years—they had arrived at a point in this case where there was a fix, and in the last extremity Mr. Surr said to me, "Will you help me in this?" and I went directly—Mr. Surr introduced me to this man, who took me to the "Knave of Clubs"—those persons who were supposed to have robbed Mr. Surr came to sell him his own silk—it was Angus's house we went to, and he produced the silk—he asked 11s. a pound; the prisoner objected in these words, "Oh, I shan't take that for my lot;"—my reply to that was this, "Now, I have no time at all to haggle with you; I will give you 10«. a pound for the lot"—the offer was accepted; it was about to be carried by the prisoner to the cab—I saw a cab—they came in a cab, I imagined—it was just before us—I saw the cab before there was any running away—the police were in private clothes.

JOSEPH COMBER KNIGHT (City-policeman). On 20th August I examined Mr. Suit's premises—the next house was being pulled down—I found at the back of that house an area leading into Mr. Walmsley's house—two iron bars had been removed from the side work of the area; some one had evidently got in through there and gone through Mr. Walmsley's place, and

there had been screws taken out of a patent lock of a door, which led into the passage of the house, out of Mr. Walmsley's warehouse into the general passage of the houso—I found up stairs that a panel had been taken out of the door—I also found an iron safe broken open—a person could have got in through the panel—the place was in confusion—I also found a jemmy that was brought from Angua's house—I compared it with the marks on the iron safe and the cash-box, and the marks exactly corresponded, especially on the iron safe—afterwards, in consequence of some information I received, I went to the Eastern Counties Railway; I saw there the man who went with Mr. Loveridge get out, and three other men get in—I cannot say whether the prisoner was one of them—they drove away and got out at Club-row—I then lost sight' of them—I saw them next coming out of Nichol-row; the prisoner was carrying a bag, and Angus following him—I jumped out of our cab as quick as I could; the prisoner saw me, dropped the bag immediately, and ran away—I followed him round two or three streets and had almost overtaken him; I just touched him as he ran through the door of a house; I hit my hand against a post; it knocked me backwards—the prisoner went through the house and jumped out of a back window, and when I got assistance we could not find him—I afterwards went to Hare-street, I went up stairs; the prisoner was in bed—I got some violent blows from persons up there, and he escaped again—on 27th I went to Spitalfields, to a house there, with some other officers, forced the door, and found the prisoner in bed; we dropped on to him, and handcuffed him directly; we partially dressed him, and took him to Bow-lane police-station—he was told there what the charge would be, and as we were going in the cab he said, "You will not prove the burglary home to me; I had a little to do with the silk, and I thought I might as well make a few shillings of it as anybody else."

GEORGE LEGG (City-policeman.) I went in a cab with the last witness, on 1st September, to the Eastern Counties Railway—I saw Mr. Loveridge get into a cab and three other men, the prisoner, Angus, and another man—I am sure the prisoner was one of the men; I was close to him—I saw them get out of the cab at the corner of Club-row, and walk down at the side of a public-house, called the Knave of Clubs—I saw nothing more.

EDWARD FUNNELL (Policeman). On 1st September, I went to the Eastern Counties Railway, and saw three men get into a cab—the prisoner was one of them—Knight and I were in another cab—I saw the prisoner afterwards throw down the bundle and run away—I captured the other man Angus—I took up the bundle that was thrown down; there were thirty-nine bundles of silk in it—I showed it afterwards to Mr. Surr, and it was identified by him as his property—it has been given up to him, together with a large quantity besides, which was found at Angus's house—Mr. Loveridge went to the house, asked for the silk, and it was given up by his wife, and brought to the station—this crowbar was found in Angus's house.

Cross-examined. Q. Was all that silk found in Angus's house? A. Yes

MR. SURR (re-examined). After the robbery, we offered a reward—all this was arranged between the police and me, and we kept it to ourselves—we applied to Mr. Loveridge—it is not a fact that any of our own silk was offered at our own warehouse for sale.

(The prisoners statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows)—"When Loveridge bought the silk of Angus, it was put into a bag; Loveridge asked me to carry it. When I got outside, I saw Knight and Fuunell there, and I put the bag down and ran away. I knew that the

silk at the price it was bought at, was not a fair price, and that I had been led into error. When Knight and Funnell came to take me in Hare-street, they told me they wanted me for being concerned in a robbery in King-street, Cheapside, and said I had better put my clothes on and come; I said I should not go, as I knew nothing about it. Funnell tried all his exertions to wrench my hands behind me; I told him if he would allow me the privilege, I would put my things on and go quietly; he immediately began picking up the things, and threw them through the window. I said, "Funnell, you are not in my place, don't destroy the things like that;" and in the confusion, he trod on one of my children, and injured the child.

GUILTY on the Second Count.He was further charged with having been before convicted.

WILLIAM MOORE (Policeman, C 187). I produce a certificate (Read: "Middlesex Sessions, Monday, July 19, 1852; Charles Day, convicted of stealing a writing-desk; having been previously convicted of felony. Transported for Seven Years.) When I saw the prisoner on Saturday, I believed him to be the same man; but I have since found out that he is not the man.

NOT GUILTY of the previous conviction.

MR. COOPER called

WILLIAM HOCKEY . I am foreman to Richard Evans, a fringe manufacturer—I have been in his service seven years—I know the prisoner—I give him a very good character for honesty—we have been in the habit of buying goods of him—he has been in the habit of coming once a week always for money, as this book will show—we have always considered him an honest man; I have known him since 1858—he has had opportunities of robbing us if he felt disposed—he was always in and out of the warehouse.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Were you in any employment with him? A. Yes; I am with Mr. Evans now—the last transaction I had with the prisoner was on 19th August, 1859—we have had no transactions with him since—I have heard that he with three other men has been charged with stealing a carpet-bag; and that he gave his bail, and had absconded.

GUILTY.— Fourteen Years' Penal Servitude.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-465
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

465. GEORGE TAYLOR (27), was again indicted for feloniously cutting and wounding Edward Funnell upon his right hand, with intent to resist and prevent his lawful apprehension.

MR. RIBTON conducted the Prosecution.

EDWARD FUNNELL . I saw this man drop the bag and run away, and Knight follow him—I received injuries on 12th October, the second occasion—from information I got, I went with Knight and Legg to Hare-street, Bethnal green, and found the prisoner nursing a child on his knee—Knight and I went in—I said, "Taylor, we are come to apprehend you for being concerned with Angus in that burglary in King-street"—he said that he knew nothing about it—I said," You must consider yourself in our custody, so you had better get up and put your clothes on"—I thought he was going to do so, instead of that, he chucked the child to his wife, and began pitching into me; he threw me on the table, the table broke, and we fell on the floor; we also broke several panes of glass in the scuffle—the women got hold of a very large pair of shears, and hit us on the hats; then one of the women said, "George, knife the b—"—I then saw that the prisoner had a knife in his hand—I took hold of a jug, threw it through the window and called "Police"—Knight was then lying on his back; Taylor was on the top of him, and Knight had his arms folded round Taylor—I saw the

knife in Taylor's hand—I directly knelt on his wrist, and wrenched the knife from him; in so doing, I got my finger cut across there, and this thumb, and was obliged to let go both hands to shut the knife; it shuts with a spring—I got him round the neck after he bad got up again; he squeezed his head down and got my finger in his mouth, and bit it through—I saw the knife in his hand directly the woman said, "Knife him"—the prisoner broke away, we followed him about half a mile, but he escaped—he did not actually strike me with the knife or attempt to do it.

The COURT considered that this was not a case of cutting and wounding, but that the prosecutor was accidentally wounded as he was taking the knife away.


OLD COURT.—Tuesday, May 15th, 1860.

PRESENT—The Right Hon. the LORD MAYOR; Mr. Baron CHANNELL; Mr. Ald. CUBITT, M.P.; and Mr. Ald. ABBISS.

Before Mr. Baron Channell.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-466
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentencesImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

466. WILLIAM GEORGE PULLINGER (48), Was indicted for stealing on 25th April, 3000l. the property of Peter Northall Laurie and another, his masters; also, on 12th April, 350l., the property of his said masters; to both of which he

PLEADED GUILTY .—Mr. Serimegour the manager of the Union Bank of London stated that the prisoner's salary as chief cashier, had leen 500l. a year, and had been raised to 600l. three or four months ago; that he had been twenty-one years in the employment of the Bank, and that his defalcations, which commenced about January 1855, amounted altogether to 263,000l.

Fourteen Years' Penal Servitude on the first Indictment and Six Years' Penal Servitude on the second Indictment, the latter sentence to commence at the expiration of the first.

For the case of WILLIAM HARPER tried this day, see Surrey cases.

NEW COURT.—Tuesday, May 15th, 1860.


Before Mr. Recorder and the Sixth Jury.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-467
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

467. JAMES SCHLEGEL (32), Was again indicted with CHARLES SKAINES (25) , for stealing 1 watch value 3l. 10s. the property of Joseph Gerard. (See page 104.) MR. METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.

JOSEPH GERARD (Through an Interpreter). I have been in England eighteen months—I am a watch-maker, and live at 15, St. John-street-road—on Saturday, 3d March, the prisoner came into my shop between 6 and 7 in the evening—Skaines had a moustache—he asked the price of a clock—I asked him where the clock was, and seeing I did not move from my place, he said, "At the further end of the shop"—I moved from my place; I had a gold watch in my hand, I laid it down, and Schlegel took it up—he gave Skaines a push with his elbow, and they went out of the shop—I thought there was something wrong, and jumped over the counter—there were two gas-burners in the shop, and I had an opportunity of seeing their faces—I next saw them in prison, about ten or twelve days after the robbery—I saw

the two prisoners, but I was not very sure of Schlegel, because I had only seen him sideways, but as soon as I saw him fully, I recognised him—when I saw Skaines at the Bagnigge Wells station he was without any moustache—that was four or five days afterwards—before I was taken to Skaines' cell, I was taken to the cells of several others.

Cross-examined by MR. TINDAL ATKINSON. Q. How long were the prisoners in your shop altogether? A. It might be three, four, or five minutes—I was taken to the cells by a police-officer for the purpose of seeing these men—I did not see a paper over the cell with their names; I did not know their names—I did not see either of the prisoners take up the watch—when they came in I had the watch in my hand—I laid it down expressly to show them the clock, and when they left it was gone.

COURT. Q. Was any one in the shop but yourself and the two prisoners? A. No; they were about a yard and a half from the watch.

WILLIAM TAYLOR (Policeman, G 226). I went with the prosecutor to the House of Detention, about 26th or 27th March—it was on Friday—the prosecutor went to, I should think, about fourteen cells—the doors were open, the prisoners stood against the doors—one or two were on the second gallery, one was on the third gallery—when he came to Skaines' cell, he said something to the interpreter, who was before me—he iudentified Skaines and Schlegel.

Cross-examined. Q. Were the names of the prisoners over the cell? A. Yes, but they are blinded, turned inside towards the cell—they are blank outside—there was no one with us, only the interpreter—I believe it is the usual way to have prisoners stand at the doors.

WILLIAM TAYLOR (Policeman, 134 N). On 6th March, I saw the prisoners together—I knew them before—since that time I have frequently seen them together—I was present at the police court on 29th March—Skaines had a moustache then, rather more than he has now—the neit day it was shaved off.

BENJAMIN BRIANT (Police-inspector, E). I was present at the apprehension of the prisoners; they were taken near Sadler's Wella Theatre—they were both running together before I took them—when they were taken, Skaines pulled this jemmy out of his pocket, and as I was trying to get hold of it, Schlegel got hold of it, and threw it over a wall.

Skaines. I was discharged. Witness. Not that I am aware of—he was charged with entering a house in Goswell-road—he was making his escape from there when I took him.

Witnesses for tfte Defence.

ELLEN YEOMAN . On Saturday afternoon, 3d March, the prisoner Skaines Came to my house, 11, Edward-square—he came there about 5 o'clock, and tcmained till 11—he never left the room during the time he was there—he had tea there—the landlady was there, and the landlady's sister—she is twenty-one years old—during that time he was not absent.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Who were there? A. The landlady, Mrs. Fox, she is his sister; and her sister, Caroline Skaines—the prisoner did not lodge there—he did about twelve months ago—I invited them all—I asked up the landlady and her brother—the prisoner never left the room till 11 o'clock—his sister is not here, she is gone abroad—she was not here last sessions—I was not here last pensions—I was asked to come about a week or a fortnight ago—I knew he had been taken in custody, but he did not wish me to come till he was tried—his mother asked me to come—she lives in the first floor where I live, with her daughter—his

mother is not here—she was not there that night—no one was there but those I have named—I did not go to the police-court—I first heard that he was taken in custody about a fortnight ago—I know this was on the 3d because his sister left on the 5th—I did not hear he was taken till a fortnight ago—I have known him about a year and a half—I am married—my husband was not there—he is sometimes late before he comes home—he works on the Great Northern Railway—he was not home that night till 12 or after 12—I asked the prisoner and his young woman to come—his young woman did not come—I don't know Schlegel; I had never seen him—I did not know where Scaines was living at that time—I invited him when I met him in the street on the Wednesday; I asked him to come on the Saturday—I met him in Caledonian-road—I don't know where he lives—his young woman was not with him when I met him—I knew her by coming where I live—she has come once or twice a week—I don't know whether the prisoner had any shop—his sister who has left has gone to Turkey—I don't remember his being committed for trial—I never heard of his being in custody.

COURT. Q. You say you know this was on 3d March? A. Yes, because his sister went abroad on the 5th—I know she was going on the 5th, from a letter which was received from her—I only know it by the letter.

CHARLOTTE FOX . I am married, and live at 11, Edward-square—I remember seeing my brother, the prisoner Skaines, on that day—he came to my house about 5 o'clock—he remained all the evening—he went away about 11 o'clock—he was in the first floor front room—my sister was going abroad on the Monday—he came to see her the last day—I and my brother and the last witness had tea—my brother remained there till the time he went away; he never went out of the house—he was not out of the room for twenty minutes—I don't remember when he was committed for trial—my sister went abroad on the Monday morning.

Gross-examined. Q. Who lives in the house with you? A. My mother, mid a lady in the front parlour, Mrs. Gaylor; no one else—we were on that evening in Mrs. Yeoman's room—I recollect it was on that Saturday because my sister went on the Monday—I knew the week before that she was going un that Monday—I don't know where my brother was living—he has left me about six months, not twelve months—he lived there by himself—he did not leave me for anything particular—I don't know where he was lodging when he came to me—he was a commercial traveller for jewellery—I never heard who he was travelling for—I had seen him once or twice or thrice a week before this—if he had been taken ill I could have sent to some person to know—I could send to my uucle who keeps the Alma coffee-shop—I swear I don't know that my brother was lodging there—I was there very seldom, not for the last six months—I have bemi there—supposing I wanted the prisoner I should send there—Mr. Skaines, who keeps that house, has two daughters—the prisoner never lodged there; he has slept there—when I have been there I have not seen ray brother there—I went once to the police-court when my brother was there—he was remanded the day I went there—I did not go again—I was not in town—I don't think Mrs. Yeoman went—she did not know it for some time.

Q. Was he not remauded for four days for the express purpose of witnesses beiug called? A. I was not in the Court; I was outside—I knew he was remanded, because a constable came and told me so—I did not go again; I was in the country—I went to Exeter in Devonshire, to my aunt and uncle—I knew what clay my brother was remauded to, but did not know that I was required—I don't know that Mr. Humphrey's was defending him—I went to Mr. Humphreys office that moruiug, but I did not sec him;

he was out—I did not see my brother after that till I saw him in Newgate—I was outside the police-court—I did not know that my brother had an attorney.

COURT. Q. Do you know of any letter sent to your Sister to know what day she was going abroad? A. No—I showed Mrs. Yeoman several letters—I showed her one about the time that my sister was going abroad; that was last week—I knew that my sister was going abroad on the 5th—I know that from the letter.


BENJAMIN BRIANT (Police-inspector, re-examined.) I was at the police-court—I saw the last witness—she came there to prove an alibi—the Magistrate remanded the prisoner expressly for that purpose.

Cross-examined by MR. TINDAL ATKINSON. Q. At the second hearing did the Magistrate commit him for tria? A. Yes—when he was brought up, the Magistrate asked him if the witnesses he was disposed to call were in Court—he said "No"—after the depositions were read he was cautioned iu the usual way, and was remanded till 3d April.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Did you see Mrs. Yeoman? A. To the best of my belief she was in the passage of the Court at the time the prisoner was committed for trial.

COURT. Q. Look at her; do you mean you saw her? A. I believe it was her—I have seen her before.

WILLIAM SCOTT (re-examined.). I took the prisoners—Schlegel was lodging at he Alma beer-shop—I believe Mrs. Yeoman was at the police-court—Skaines asked to be remanded.

JOSEPH MANNING (Policeman, E 68.) I was present in the police-court on the last examination of the prisoner, 3d April—I saw Mrs. Yeoman in the passage; I am certain of it—I had known her before—I had seen her on several occasions.

COURT to MRS. YEOMAN. Q. Were you at the police-court on 3d April? A. No; I was in the passage outside—I did not know of the prisoner being taken in custody.

SCHLEGEL— GUILTY .— Ten Years' Penal Servitude.

SKAINES— GUILTY . He was also charged with having

been before convicted.

ANDREW FRANCIS SCHALLER (Police-sergeant E 68.) I produce a certificate of the prisoner's conviction—(Read: "Central Criminal Court, June, 1857; Henry Scaines convicted of receiving 272 handkerchiefs, and other goods. Confined One Year.") I was present—Scaines is the person—he was tried in 1859 for stealing a watch, and acquitted—he has been a constant associate of thieves to my knowledge—the Alma coffee-shop is a regular harbour for thieves—I think there is not a den like it in London.

GUILTY.— Four Years' Penal Servitude. Inspector Briant stated that he had known Schlegel in custody about twenty times, and that he was one of the cleverest thieves in London.

THIRD COURT.—Tuesday, May 15th, 1860.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Sixth Jury.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-468
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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468. SAMUEL SANDS (19) , Feloniously attempting to discharge a loaded pistol at George Matthews, with intent to murder him.

MESSRS. ROBINSON and GIFFARD conducted the Prosecution.

HORATIO SIMON SAMUELS . I am the son of Mrs. Samuels, of 30, Gloucester-place—I live at Montley Bank, in Cheshire—On Thursday, 15th March, I was at my mother's house—the prisoner was her servant, on trial—I discharged him on the evening of the loth, with my mother's concurrence—in consequence of his behaviour to me, I ordered him to leave the room—Matthews, the butler, was present—the prisoner was very violent, and used excessively violent language to me—I turned him out at the street-door—he said, "I will do for Matthews"—he used very violent language, both to me and to the butler—in consequence of his saying that about the butler I turned him out—he kept on ringing and knocking at the door—I told him if he did not leave off knocking, I would send for the police—I did so, and gave him in charger—he ran away as hard as he could—the policeman caught him—the next day he was brought up and fined.

Cross-examined by MR. SHARPE. Q. He was your mother's servant? A. Yes; I had spoken to my mother relative to discharging him, and she had given me authority to do so—to the best of my recollection it was on the 15th.

WILLIAM SHRUBS (Policeman, D 95). On 27th March, I was on duty, in plain clothes, in the neighbourhood of Gloucester-place—between 8 and 9 in the evening, I saw the prisoner standing with his right shoulder against the area rails, at the corner of Gloucester-place and Crawford-street; that is three clear houses from Mrs. Samuels' house—he remained a quarter of an hour walking to and fro—he was on the opposite side to the house—he did not pass it that night—the nearest he went to it, that night, was within three doors—on 29th, two nights after that, I again saw him in Gloucester-place—the first night he had a carpet-bag doubled up under his left arm—it appeared to me to be quite empty—I saw him on 29th, at twenty minutes to 9, standing opposite the house—I saw him remain there about ten minutes, or rather more—I went away to send another constable that was with me to watch him—he lost sight of him after a few minutes.

Cross-examined. Q. Was it twice altogether that you saw him? A. Yes; the second time was two days after the first—by three clear houses, I mean that there were three houses between the house he was standing near and the house of the prosecutor—he never passed that house at all the first night—on the second night he, at first, stood opposite the house, on the other side of the street; then he walked up and down and then crossed over—he did stand opposite the house, on the same side as the house—he had the carpet-bag on both occasions.

GEORGE MATTHEWS . I am now living at 10, Crawford-street, Gloucester-place—on 20th March, I was butler to Mrs. Samuels—I lost my situation through this affair—the prisoner was in Mrs. Samuels' situation, as footman on trial—after he had been in the service Mrs. Samuels gave him notice to leave, as he did not suit—he was discharged then—at the time of his discharge he used very offensive language to Captain Samuels and to me—he called me a d—d thief and a d—d drunkard—he did not say anything else—Captain Samuels and he were having a few words—he used very abusive language and Captain Samuels put him out—after he was out in the street I did not not hear him mention my name to Captain Samuels; only inthe hall he said I was a d—d drunkard and a b—y thief—when turned out, in consequence of his knocking at the door and making a disturbance he was given in custody—the following morning he was brought up before Mr. llaminill, the Magistrate, and fined—on that occasion I appeared as a

witness against him—on 19th March, the Monday morning following, I missed some plate—I also found that my coat and waistcoat had been cut—the value of the plate was about 70l. or 80l. I supjiose—on 30th March, at half-past 6 in the morning, 1 fancied I heard the door go; at 7 o'clock I heard the water-closet door go again, when the milk came; at a quarter-past 7 I went to the door and said, "Who's there I" there was no answer—I forced the door open, and there I saw the prisoner with this mask (produced) on his face, and this pistol (produced) in his hand, within a foot of my face—he said, "I will blow your brains out"—I gave one rush, seized him by the throat with my right hand, caught hold of his right arm, which he had the pistol by, got him down on the seat of the closet and pulled the mask off with my teeth, my hands being engaged holding him—there was a carpet-bag on the floor of the closet; seeing him with that, I said, "You villain, are you come for some more of my plate?"—he said, "I am not come for any plate; I only want to shoot you"—I said, u Drop the pistol, sir"—he said, "I will shoot you in the leg"—he was at that time holding the pistol downwards towards the ground, as my hand pressed his hand down—my hand was on his wrist—he said, "If you leave go of my hand, I will give you the pistol"—I did not leave go—I was there about eight minutes in the closet with him, by myself—I called fur assistance—some labourers opposite, I cannot say exactly who, went for the police—a, policeman came up, and I gave him in charge—that was the end of our interview—there were two occasions when he had the pistol pointed at me—he had his finger on the trigger—it was half-cocked—I could see the cap shine—his finger was the same as mine is now—I cannot say exactly whether he pressed it at all—he had his finger on the trigger, like this, when I seized him at the door, and he never altered it from the first—I did not observe any motion of the finger—he said to the constable, when I gave him in charge, that he intended to do for me—the water-closet is underneath the area steps, in front of the door that leads to the plate closet—there is a bed-room adjoining, in which I and the footman slept.

Cross-examined by MR. TAYLOR. Q. Did you not first say that the pistol was full cocked? A. Half-cocked—I might have said that it was full cocked—I did not say that it was full cocked and that I saw him pull the trigger—I said, I saw his finger on the trigger—I don't know at all that he could not pull the trigger when it was half-cocked—I never had any character with him—no inquiry was made about his character before he came—he was waiting for Mr. Samuels to come to town, before he got his character, but he did not suit—he might have been a respectable man—I never knew his friends—I inquired at a place where he had lived three weeks; that is all—I did not make inquiries about his character afterwards—I left of my own accord—I was never in the habit of having friends there late at night—it is not a fact that I had friends there late at night, and was discharged in consequence—I never had friends there—Mrs. Samuels said that she had lost the plate and felt uncomfortable—I said that I felt the same, and therefore it would be better for me to leave—no charge was ever made against the prisoner about the plate—I did not know where he, lived when he left us, till I found out—I never borrowed 5s. of him within the first three days he was with us—I might have borrowed a shilling to pay a cab, never more than a shilling at a time—I never borrowed 9s. of him altogether, never more than a shilling at one time, and then I paid that back—I never owed him more than a shilling at a time—I brought a pair of boots about a week after he was there—he bought them for 5s.

or 6s.—that was not a set-off against what I owed him—he paid me the money; 5s. or 6s. I cannot say which—I swear that I never owed him 6s. before that.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Did you leave Mrs. Samuels entirely of your own accord? A. Entirely—I have lived six years in their family, twelve years ago, as footman—I have been there as butler this time—they never made any complaint of me at all—Mrs. Samuels and Captain Samuels have told me that they have not the least suspicion of me, and I do not believe, at the present time, that they have the least suspicion against me.

JOHN RADFORD (Police-sergeant, D 29). At half-past 7 o'clock, on the morning of 30th March, I was called in to Mrs. Samuels' house—I heard a scuffle in the area—I got over the area gate and so to the water-closet when I got there I found the prisoner and the butler struggling there—the butler had the prisoner on his back on the seat—I said, "What is the matter?" the butler said, "He is a thief"—I then took the prisoner by the collar—the butler got up—I said to the prisoner, "What are you doing here?" ho said, "I have not stolen anything, but I will give him something; I will do for him"—I then took him into the area and searched him—I found this rope in his pocket, and this belt round his waist—this mask I found lying in the water-closet—this carpet-bag was at the water-closet door—I then removed him to the station—Lewington, the footman, had the pistol in his hand—he was there before me—he gave it to me—I examined it—it was loaded and half-cocked—at the station I searched the prisoner farther—I found this powder-flask, this lead bullet, and seven percussion caps, in his pocket (produced)—the pistol was loaded with this lead bullet, which I drew at the police-court—that is in addition to the one that he had in his pocket—there was also a charge of powder, and a cap on the pistol.

SAMUEL LEWINGTON . I live as footman at 30, Gloucester-place—on tho morning of 30th March, about half-past 7 o'clock, I was in the dining-room—I heard a noise—I went down stairs, and found Matthews and the prisoner struggling in the water-closet—I saw a pistol in the prisoner's hand—I took it from him—I opened the door and called for the police—I kept the pistol till I gave it up to the policeman.

MR. TAYLOR contended thai the pistol was not so loaded as to be in a condition to do mischief by pulling tlie trigger, it being only on half cock, and that there-fore there was'no case against the prisoner.

HORATIO SIMON SAMUELS (re-examined). Supposing this pistol to be at half-cock, all that is to be done is this, and it is certain to be discharged—there are many cases when pistols and rifles have been discharged at half-cock.

COURT. Q. What is it that puts it at full cock? A. A movement of the thumb—this part is the hammer—that must be drawn back by the thumb—pistols have frequently been known to go off at half-cock, by the pulling of the trigger.

MR. TAYLOR. Q. I presume when you say they have been frequently known to go off, you mean pistols that are out of repair? A. Well, certainly they are not in a proper condition, or they would not go off so—they ought not to go off at half-cock—I have this pistol now at half-cock, and my finger on the trigger; I cannot discharge it. The Court (having consulted, MR. BARON CHANNELL) was of opinion that there was a case for the Jury, and that if they were of opinion, upon the facts, that the prisoner was guilty, the point ought not to be reserved.GUILTY of the attempt to do grievous bodily harm. Four Years' Penal Servitude.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-469
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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469. CHARLES LONGLAND (45) , Embezzling the sums of 1l. 2l. 3s. 7 1/2 d., and 18s. 10 1/2 d. received by him on account of his mistresses, Elizabeth Pasley and another. (See also page 113).

MR. ROBINSON conducted the Prosecution.

FREDERICK TILL . I am manager for the prosecutrixes, the Misses Pasley—this account (produced) of 22d September is in the prisoner's writing—it purports to be a receipt for 1l.—this second one is the account which was presented to me in the evening by the prisoner—he has there not accounted in any way for the 1l.—this one of October 6th purports to be a gale to Mr. Hobbs of goods to the amount of 2l. 3s. 7 1/2 d., and a receipt given by the prisoner for that sum—in the account I have in my hand, he bas not accounted in any way for that—he left on 19th November—this one of 3d November is also a sale to Mr. Hobbs of goods to the amount of 2l.—here is a sort of duplicate, but what he accounts for here is only 1l. 1s. 1 1/2 d. the difference tthat we charge him with embezzling, is 18s. 10 1/2 d.—this, which ought to be an accurate duplicate, purports to be made by out of our writers—I know the goods which are represented in those invoices—they would all bear this our trade mark—we invented some pattern that we registered—these are the special marks that were on that class of goods that were bought by Mr. Hobbs—it is our own mark with the initials of our firm.

THOMAS HOBBS . I have been in the habit of dealing with the prisoner as traveller of Miss Pasleys'—I purchased the goods mentioned in this invoice of 22d September, and paid the prisoner 1l.—I paid him this 2l. 3s. 7 1/2 d. on 6th October, and also 2l. on 3d. November—I dealt with him as Miss Pasleys' foreman or manager—I am acquainted with Miss Pasleys' goods, their manufacture and their mark—those goods had their registered mark, with E and M. P. on it; that applies to all the goods that are here.

Cross-examined by MR. POLAND. Q. How long have you dealt with Miss Pasleys'? A. About eight or nine months, or it may be more—all my goods that have been delivered as coming from Miss Pasleys have been marked—to the best of my knowledge every front had that mark on—I can swear it; I went through the fronts myself—those are the only description of goods that I bought; three-and-ninepenny, and five-andsixpenny—I did not know at all that the prisoner was dealing on his own account—I only knew him as a traveller of Pasleys'—certainly if I had known that he was dealing on his own account I should have mentioned it to Miss Pasleys'—I should not buy of a traveller if he presented his own goods—he sometimes may not have had all that I required—sometimes I wanted a particular article and he may not have had enough of it—he had principally had the articles that I wanted—it may possibly have occurred his not having the particular price; I do not remember any instance of that occurring—I do remember his not having sufficient—I am quite sure, as far as my memory goes, that all the goods that were delivered, had tickets on them—this same description of ticket has always been used by Pasleys all the while the prisoner has been in the habit of coming to my shop.

MR. ROBINSON. Q. With respect to these particular goods in these three transactions, was there anything such as my friend suggested, that he had not got enough, or that he would go and get them? A. Not that he would go and get them—those goods were sold to me on those days, and I looked over them afterwards—I had been in the habit of dealing with Miss Pasleys—each firm has a particular style of making fronts—I am prepared to swear that those were Miss Pasleys' goods—I looked at them to ascertain

whether they were theirs or not—I am very anxious to buy goods as cheap as possible.

COURT to FREDERICK TILL. Q. Is this true (Reading from the evidence which the witness gave in the former case) "It was the prisoner's duty to select suitable goods from the stock; his discretion was unlimited, he informed me what goods he had selected, but no check was kept on him—he went to the customers we named—he had an apparatus for making duplicate invoices—he was to leave one with the customer, and bring the other home to us"? A. Yes, that is so—at the time the prisoner was given in custody I found a deficiency of four hundred dozen—that was between January 1858, and January 1859—there was an examination on the Monday of what he had in his box, and I added to it what was necessary before he started—he had not access to these tickets—he never had to touch any of them—all the stock we selected was from that in the shop; already ticketed—he had not access to the stock of tickets, unless he went behind our counter to get them, where he had no business at all.

Witnesses for the Defence.

ELIZABETH SWINFEN . (The evidence of this witness given on the previous trial was read over to her, to which she assented). I used to keep a book, between the prisoner and me, of things that I made—this (produced) is one of the books—the whole of it on one side is in my writing, the other side is the prisoner's—this entry is on November 3d; "T," that is for Thursday; "4" that is four dozen plain soft fronts, out—"out" means they were sent out to Mr. Longland—we sent them out by Wingrove—the price of those fronts might be about 5s. 6d.; I cannot tell from that entry—I have made a great many fronts at 5s. 6d. and also at 3s. 9d.—this book (produced) is previous to the other—here is an entry of 6th October; "fourteen dozen plain soft," they were sent out; 22d September, "two dozen plain soft caps;" they were sent out—besides those sent out on those days, these books contain an accurate account of what we made up and sent out from time to time—this second book does not say the date when it began—it goes some time back; considerably before the other book—I should think this goes back to a twelvemonth ago—these entries were made at the time we supplied the goods—these goods were all made up from the raw material supplied to me by the prisoner—I did not keep a book at the first—I used to put them down on a card; afterwards I began to have books—sometimes we put tiokets on the goods, and sometimes we sent them out without tickets on them—I think the plain fronts had plain tickets, if any, on them, with blue and gilt edges—I dare say it was twelve months ago or more, that we first put those tickets on—I do not know for whom those goods that are entered as being sent out on those three dates, were—I know they were sent out.

Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. Now here is a ticket produced; wheri will you swear that you first put that ticket upon any of the goods? A. I do not think we put this on till lately.

MR. POLAND. Q. When you say lately, do you know how long ago? A. It might be about four months ago, or it might be longer—it is somewhere about that time.

(The evidence given by Jane Wingrove, William Thompson, George Fyson, Richard Mills, James Weston, and George Lee, in the previous case, was read over to them by the Court, and they assented to it.

STEPHEN HAWKINS . (The evidence given by this witness in the previous case was read over to him, and he assented to it.)

Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. Don't you know that Longland selected what stock he pleased and merely gave in an account of it? A. He did not—he selected his stock, and Miss Pasley or'Mr. Till counted it before it was put into his box—that was the practice with me—it was the practice they carried out.

Q. You only know what they did with Longland, from what they did with you? A. Well, I believe so—Miss Pasley has counted my goods—that Miss Pasley (pointing her out) did not ever count my goods on any one occasion—she has taken them out—she has done so a few times duriug the time I was there—I will be on my oath, that, when I have selected the goods, before I went out in the morning, that Miss Paaley has counted them.

COURT. Q. Then why did you swear she had not? A. Well, she is not in the habit of doing it.

MR. POLAND. Q. You say stock used to be selected by you and the other travellers, and then used to be counted? A. Yes—it was always counted; for instance if you selected any goods from the warehouse, Mr. Till has said, "Don't touch anything without asking for-them, for they may be orders"—after the things have been counted they have been put into boxes, strapped up, and taken to the van—I have been there when Longland's things have been counted—I am able to call that to memory—that is Miss Elizabeth Pasley—there is another one named Maria, who is not here—she used to attend to the stock, at the warehouse—this one used generally to be at the desk.

MR. ROBINSON. Q. Used you to come in to the warehouse simply for the short time that you used to select your stock? A. Yes—I am not in the warehouse generally—I was not there so much as Longland—I should not know what were orders and what were not.

GEORGE LEE (re-examined). I used to go with the prisoner in the van—I have been with him to Mr. Hobbs', and have seen him take goods into Mr. Hobbs' shop—I knew that he used to deal with goods on his own account—I am able to say, that I have seen him take goods, that did not belong to Miss Pasley, into Mr. Hobbs' shop, and leave them there; plain fronts at 3s. 9d. and 5s. 6d.—some of the 5s. 6d. ones were not ticketed at all, because there was no room to put the tickets on—Miss Pasleys' goods were not always ticketed—some of them, the 5s. 6d. bound fronts, were not ticketed—there was no difficulty as to their being ticketed—it was always on a Thursday that we were at Mr. Hobbs' shop; sometimes on a Saturday.

Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. Don't you know now that those were not bound fronts, mentioned in that invoice? A. I cannot tell by that—I was the driver—I had nothing to do with the goods except to carry them into the shop and take them out—they were carried in in boxes—I have mentioned 3s. 9d. and 5s. 6d. ones—those were the chief articles that Mr. Hobbs used to buy—the prisoner's own goods were carried in his own boxes—I was receiving pay from Miss Pasley—I knew, about five months before, that he was carrying on business in his own name—I think there was nothing dishonest about it; it is very often done amongst travellers.

MR. POLAND. Q. You say the prisoner had two boxes of his own; what sort were they? A. One was a green and the other a black box—he kept his own goods in those.

COURT. Q. Had you anything to do with the goods in the boxes, or simply to carry the boxes in? A. Simply to carry them in—I cannot see

through the lid of a box; but I could see the goods when it was open-sometimes there would be one sent in and I was ordered to bring another in before the first was closed up—my knowledge was confined to an accidental view of what was inside—I have taken the black and green boxes into the shop myself; not at all the places he has been to, but at a good many—sometimes I was in the shop when the dealings took place, and sometimes not—I have received, when I have been out with the van with the prisoner, both the green and black boxes from the girl Wingrove—Miss Pasleys' were a wooden set of boxes; the others were pasteboard.

MR. ROBINSON. Q. Did you stop and pick up Miss Wingrove at the corner of a street? A. We stopped and met her at certain places; sometimes in the street, sometimes at the corner of a street, and sometimes at a shop—I am not in any service now—I have been out very nigh two months.

COURT to THOMAS HOBBS. Q. You say that all the goods you purchased of the prisoner, had the ticket on them? A. Yes—I am certain that none of them had this ticket (produced) on them—I never purchased any of him with that ticket on—none of those that I bought were "plain soft"—I have not bought bound fronts—those that I bought were with an edge; what we term "whisker blonde edging"—speaking to a person in the trade, I should call them "plain edge fronts"—"plain soft" are made of a softer material—the terms "plain front" and "plain soft" would describe to the trade an entirely different article—the soft are bound, to the best of my knowledge.

The prisoner received a good character.

GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the prosecutrix. Confined Twelve Months.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-470
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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470. RUTH GRIFFITHS (22) , Feloniously killing and slaying Mary Griffiths; Second Count calling the deceased, Mary Tucker.

MESSRS. POLAND and ORRIDGE conducted the prosecution.

CAROLINE WILKIN . I am the wife of Daniel Wilkin, of 99, Friar-street, Reading—I know the prisoner; she lodged at my mother's at Friar-court, Reading—I was present at my mothers when she was delivered of a female child, on 12th March.—she left Reading on Wednesday 4th April—up to that time she suckled the child—she actually left Reading on the Thursday morning, before 7 o'clock—during that time the child was healthy, all but the left eye, in which there was a cold, and it was swollen very much—I saw some of the clothes that the child wore at Reading—these are they (produced)—the child was baptized at Reading—I was not present—its name was Mary Ann Tucker—the prisoner was known there by the name of Ruth Griffiths.

COURT. Q. Is the prisoner married? A. No—I did not know her till then—I cannot say that she was particularly kind to the child.

CHARLOTTE ACKROYD . I am the wife of Joseph Ackroyd, and live at No. 1, Mount-pleasant, Clerkenwell—I know the prisoner—on Thursday, 5th April, she came to my house about half-past 1 in the day—that was the day before Good Friday—she engaged a room at 4s. 6d. a week—she had a child with her; its left eye was swollen with a cold—she stayed till about 6 o'clock the same day—she went out to meet her husband and returned about 8 o'clock—then she left, with the baby—she said she should be back in a short time—she said that her name was Brown—she did not come back—she was suckling the child twice or three times during that period—I lent her this napkin for the child—she must have put it on

the child, because I did not see it after I lent it to her—I believe the child was a girl; she told my daughter so.

MARY ANN SKELDON . I live at 1, Pennyfather's-court, Huggin-lane, City—that is some distance from Clerkenwell—on the night of 5th April I was coming home with my husband about twenty minutes to 12 o'clock, and found a baby, a female child, lying on the pavement in Pennyfather's-court—it had these things on—I took it, had it home all night, and suckled it—its left eye was very much swollen—next morning I took it to Mrs. Lott, in Northumberland-alley, the casual ward of the City of London Union—I left it with her—excepting the eye, the child looked healthy and sacked well.

SUSAN LOTT . I am the wife of David Lott—I am in charge of the relieving office of the casual poor of the City of London Union—on the morning of 6th April, about 9 o'clock, a female child was brought to me by the last witness—I washed it, dried its clothes, and suckled it for about an hour—it appeared very healthy; it suckled strong—I then took it to the Union Workhouse, and gave it to Susan Schmidlin—I left it with her at about half-past 12 o'clock in the day-time—the child had all these things on—when it was brought to me the clothes were wet, but not from exposure to the weather.

SUSAN SCHMIDLIN . I am nurse at the City of London Union at Bow—on 6th April the last witness brought a female child, to me dressed in these clothes—I did not notice anything particular the matter with it, except that the left eye was very much swollen—towards the afternoon there was a little catching of the breath, as if it had got cold—at 10 o'clock at night it had a fit—I put it in a bath, gave it a little castor oil, and it seemed easier—through the night it had several fits—at 9 o'olock in the morning, Mr. Buncombe, the medical gentleman, saw it, and prescribed for it—it had a very heavy fit again at 3 o'clock, and did not recover—it died—that was on the seventh—after washing the body and laying it out, it was put into a shell, carried down to the dead-house, and I did not see it any more—an inquest was held on the 11th, and the next day, Thursday, it was buried—no other baby was buried from the union that day.

COURT. Q. Did the child seem pretty well when it was brought? A. Yes—it had plain milk and water, that day; not mother's milk—it was fresh new milk, with a little lime-water in it, in case of there being any acidity—it had it from time to time throughout the day—it took it's food very freely out of one of the feeding-bottles—it was an ordinary convulsive fit, such as children are quite liable to.

CHARLES HOPE BUNOOMBE . I am a member of the College of Surgeons, and medical officer to the City of London Union—on 7th April a female child was shown me by the last witness, between 9 and 10 o'clock in the morning—it was in a feeble, weakened condition—I prescribed for it—it died the same day—I should say that the enfeebled state was caused by the convulsions it had had during the night—they were described to me—it was weak and very enfeebled—on May 4th, the child, having been buried, was disinterred, and I made a post-mortem examination—it was not decomposed—I found nothing to account for death—in my judgment it died of convulsions—the exposure to the cold, by leaving a child on the pavement at night-time, would produce convulsions—children die of convulsions without it being able to trace the cause—it was in every respect a healthy child, well nourished.

COURT Q. Suppose a child were exposed for some time, and removed

from the pavement at twenty minutes to 12, on the 5th April, and it had a fit in the course of the following night, should you attribute the fit to the exposure the night before? Could you trace it satisfactorily? A. In the absence of finding any other cause, I should connect the two things—if, towards the afternoon, there was a little catching of the breath, as if it had cold, I should connect that with an exposure which ceased at twenty minutes before midnight on the 5th—I should not fancy that it would take effect sooner with a young child like that—healthy children have convulsions—supposing that I were called upon to see a child that died of convulsions, and which I knew to be an healthy child, I should not know what to trace it to—it might be error of diet—milk and water would be quite proper to give to the child—if the milk had been a little too rich, the child would have been sick, and rejected the food.

ELIZABETH HUNT . I live at 20, Weston-place, King's-cross, and am a widow—on Good Friday, April 6th, the prisoner came to my place, took a lodging, and remained there seven days—she paid me 17s. 6d.—she had no child with her.

GEORGE CARPENTER . I am an inmate of the City of London Workhouse—on the evening of 7th April, Mrs. Schmidlin gave me a child in a shell—I took it to the dead-house and locked it up there—I afterwards saw it put into a coffin—it was left in charge of the undertaker's man—it was sent away to be buried, on 12th April—that was the only child that was sent away that day.

WILLIAM GIBBS . I am coachman to Mr. Dolleridge, undertaker to the City of London Union—on 12th April I took a coffin there to put a child in, and took it, when it was put in, to the cemetery at Little Ilford—Mrs. Schmidlin came with me—I saw it put into the grave—Mr. Wallace was at the chapel; he saw it put in the grave.

JOSEPH WALLACE . I am clerk at the chapel of the City of London Union—I remember, on 12th April, a child's coffin going to the cemetery at Little Ilford—the last witness brought it—it was buried in grave No. 5,571—I know that that grave was afterwards opened, and a child's coffin taken out by Reeve, the grave digger.

COURT. Q. Was that the same that bad been buried? A. Yes.

RICHARD REEVE . I am grave digger at the cemetery—on 4th May I gave the coffin, spoken to by the last witness, to Mr. Buncombe, the medical officer—I opened it myself, and was present at the post-mortem examination—it was interred in the same grave afterwards.

COURT. Q. Did the surgeon see the body of the child that was in that coffin? A. Yes.

CHARLES WOOTTON (Policeman, A 401). The prisoner was in custody on 20th April—I spoke to her about this matter—I cautioned her not to answer me unless she thought proper, as what she said could be used as evidence against her—I said, "You are identified as the person who was at Mount Pleasant on the Thursday before Good Friday, with a baby about five weeks old"—she answered, "Yes"—I said, "Then, next day, Good Friday, you were at a coffee-shop near King's Cross, and you had no baby; can you tell me where the baby is?"—she said, "It is in the country"—I said, "Where?"—she made me no answer—I said, "If you tell me where it is, I can inquire and see whether it is correct"—she did not answer—I said, "Is it alive"—she said "All right"—I asked her if she was a married woman—she said "No."

GUILTY.—Recommended to Mercy by the Jury. Confined Nine Months.

There was another indictment against the prisoner, for larceny.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-471
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

471. JAMES COLLINS (24) , Stealing 84 lbs. weight of lead of John March Dean. Second count. Feloniously receiving the same. Third count. Harbouring a man unknown.

MR. SHARAP conducted ike Prosecution.

FREDERICK JEX . I am a builder, and live at Little Ilford, Essex—I was employed by Mr. Dean for the purpose of pulling down the Old Stratford Station—we pulled down part of it on the Saturday previous to 18th April—we had pulled some old lead and gas piping down—the bottom of the drain there, was left in—there were leaden traps in the drain—I believe this lead (produced) belongs to the old station, but I cannot swear to it—it is part of the trap of a drain—this gas piping (produced) is similar to that which was lost—it was all safe on Monday the 16th, it was missed on Wednesday night—I employed Collins at the station—he was there on the 18th—he has been at work for me for four years.

COURT. Q. Is there a ball-cock produced? A. Yes; there was one missed.

JOHN MARCH DEAN . I am an auctioneer and surveyor, carrying on business at Stratford—I purchased the materials of the Old Stratford Bridge Railway Station, and employed the last witness, Mr. Jex, to pull it down—afterwards, in consequence of information I received, I communicated with police-constable, K 381, and went with him on Wednesday night, 18th April, to the house of Caroline Clarinbull, who keeps a marine-store shop—I believe this copper to be a portion of the copper that was at the station, it being a superior kind to that used in such buildings—this lead is a portion of that which went into the drain; these pieces were shown to us by Mrs. Clarinbull.

CAROLINE CLARINBULL I am the wife of Edward Thomas Clarinbull, of West Ham, a marine-store dealer—two persons came to my place on 18th April last and offered some lead for sale—I said something to them, and they went out—they afterwards came back with the prisoner—I showed him the lead and asked him if I was to buy it, and he said yes, it was all right, it was only their beer money—he did not say what he was—he did not make use of the word "foreman"—he came as the foreman to me—I then bought what was offered to me—the prisoner was standing by at the time—I gave 1 1/2 d. a 1b, for the lead, and 7d. for the copper—I afterwards gave it up to the policeman—these are the pieces which have been produced.

Prisoner. Q. Did I come and tell you to buy this lead? A. You did; you did not sell it yourself—I don't say you are the thief—you came in and represented yourself to be the foreman—I sent them to fetch you, and you came in and said it was all right.

JURY. Q. Had you known this man before? A. I never saw him before. The Court was of opinion that there was no evidence to go to the Jury on the first and third counts.

Prisoner's Defence. I am innocent of it, that is all I have to say. CAROLINE CLARINBULL (re-examined). The exact words that he said about the beer money were, "It is all right," it was their beer money; the other men were in the shop at the time.


7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-472
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

472. EDWARD QUINLAN (19) , Stealing 1/2 lb. of nails of John March Dean.

FREDERICK JEX . I am a builder—I was employed by Mr. Dean to take down a building—there was a quantity of lead and some copper nails lying about—the prisoner was employed under me to work in different parts of the building—he would have access to these copper pails—they were on the roof of the old station—I did not authorise him to take them away—these nails produced are such as were on the roof of the railway station.

Cross-examined by MR. SHARPE. Q. Were you employed by Mr. Dean to pull down this station? Yes—a man named Collins was tried for stealing lead and copper pipeing—Collins was working at this place—these nails were fastened into the roof of the station—there were no other copper nails except those on the roof—all the slates were not then taken off the roof—about half cf them had been taken off on the 18th—I had not missed any nails before the 16th—I missed the lead and copper that Collins was charged with stealing on the Monday—I was employed by Mr. Dean abont the 14th—I had known the prisoner about eight years—I never knew anything against him before—I did not miss these nails, they were taken out of the heap of nails that had been taken out.

COURT. Q. Were the nails that were shown to you of the same description as those on the roof? A. Yes; they are such nails as were formerly used—they are not now used; they have gone out about five or six years.

JOHN MARCH DEAN . I am an auctioneer—I purchased the materials of that place—I had no contract in writing; I paid the money—I believe these nails are my property—I employed the witness to pull the plaoe down—I went to the house of Clarinbull, a marine-store dealer; I was there shown these copper nails—I believe they are the same that were on the roof of the station—they are of a particular description.

Cross-examined. Q. What are you? A. A surveyor—I have heard that these nails were common five or six years ago, and they are now used to a superior class of buildings—this was at the Stratford Railway Station—I did not miss any nails—I never saw the prisoner before.

CAROLINE CLARINBULL . I am the wife of Thomas Clarinbull—on 18th April the prisoner came in the afternoon and brought these nails—I asked him who sent him; he said the foreman—I bought them of him at 7d. a pound—there were half a pound of them.

Cross-examined. Q. You gave the full value for them? A. Yea—I am sure he is the person—two men had come that morning and offered some lead and some copper—I refused to buy them till they brought the foreman, and they brought a person named Collins, who has been tried and acquitted.

JAMES SHARP (Policeman, K 381). I apprehended the prisoner on 19th April, on a charge of stealing nails—his answer was, "I never sold anything."

COURT. Q. Were Collins and this prisoner both on charge together? A. Yes.


Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-473
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

473. HENRY DENISON (24) , Stealing a pitchfork, value 2s. 6d. the property of William Wicks.

MR. SHARPE conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM BRADSTREET . I am foreman to Mr. William Wicks, farmer, of Walthamstow, Essex—the prisoner was in his employment in March and

April—he went into his employ on 5th March and continued there about a month—after he left I missed a fork marked "W. W." which was meant for "William Wicks"—afterwards, in consequence of a communication that I received, I went to a police constable—a fork was shown me, which I identified at once as the fork that belonged to Mr. Wicks—this (produced) is it—I missed it about two days after the prisoner left.

Prisoner. I only worked there a fortnight and four days.

JOHN WILLIAM PATMORE . I am a licensed victualler of Chingford in Essex—that is, perhaps two or two-and-a-half miles from Waltbanistow—the prisoner was lodging at my house some time during March and April—at that time he owed me about 5s. 11d. or 6s. 11d. for lodging—there was a fork in my cupboard which is allowed for my lodgers to use—I saw the fork in April—I don't remember the day when I first saw it—it is a cupboard that I do not very often go to—I may have seen the fork seven or eight different times, or perhaps more; I cannot say—I asked the prisoner if he would let me have that fork as security for what he owed me—he said, "Yes, master; I bought that fork of a man at Tom Mills's"—I did not take the fork then—I left it there for some time—I was going to take it afterwards, but I saw the brand on it, and directly gave information to the police, suspecting it was stolen—I did not see the brand before I spoke to him about leaving it with me as security.

Prisoner. Q. Did you ever see me with the fork? A. I never saw you have it in your hand, but you indicated to me that it was your pitchfork.

COURT. Q. When did he first bring that fork? A. I cannot say—he had not a fork that I saw when he first came—he paid me a shilling a week for his lodging—he drank beer at my house—he owed me some for food—the bill was both for lodging and for beer—I am the prosecutor of the other indictment.

THOMAS MILLS . I am a beer-shop keeper at Chingford Hatch—I never saw this fork till I saw it at the police-court—I never saw it in my house—I never knew there was such a fork—I never had a place where tools were kept, or anything of the sort—I have not any one that has got any tools of any description—I am one of the witnesses in the other indictment.

THOMAS HOLDEN (Policeman, N 346). On Saturday night, 28th April, Mr. Patmore communicated with me—in consequence of that I went to Mr. Wicks of Walthamstow and saw the fork—I then communicated with Mr. Bradstreet; in consequence of that I afterwards apprehended the prisoner at a beer-shop in Walthamstow—I told him that he was charged with stealing a fork, the property of Mr. Wicks, his former employer—he said, "I know nothing about the fork; I never saw one"—I received this fork from Mr. Bradstreet.

(The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was hen read as follows:—"I never stole the fork. I never carried it to Mr. Patmore's house, and I know nothing about it.")


There was another indictment against the prisoner.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-474
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

474. ISAAC HUNTER (25) , Stealing 9 tame fowls, the property of Christopher Tyler.

MR. ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution.

CHRISTOPHER TYLER . I am a coal merchant, living in Barking parish, llford—On Wednesday night, 11th April, I lost a quantity of fowls from my yard—they were kept in two hen-houses, one of which was locked, and the other not—I lost some out of both—there were nine stolen and two injured—they were all Hamburgh, except two Spanish—there was not a

Cochin China—there was one Dorking cock—I have sines seen the whole nine brought back dead in this jacket (produced,), which the prisoner used to wear—I saw the policeman cut the legs off two of them—these two were given me about a week before, and had this piece of ribbon (produced) tied round to know them—they were the Spanish ones—they are now as they were found by the prisoner—the prisoner had been working at sand bars for me—I saw him on the barge at work, pumping—that was about four hundred yards from where my fowls were kept—I saw the fowls in a guernsey—I do not know that the prisoner had been wearing that, but 1 believe he had.

Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. You are not a very good judge of fowls? A. No—the ground round the fowl-house is the wharf; it is all stone—it is a very large wharf; the ground on it is some of it gravel, and some is mud; all sorts of things—whether that is a jersey or a guernsey, I do not venture to swear to it.

MR. ORRIDGE Q. Were those legs on the fowls when they were shown to you? A. Yes—I swore to the fowls before the legs were cut off.

JOHN CLARK . I keep a beer-shop at Barking—I know the prisoner—on this night, 11th April, he was at my house when I came home at half-past 9, and he left there at half-past 10—I did not see anything more of him till about twenty minutes to 12, when I heard a knock at the door; I asked who was there; some one said, "Police"—I said, "I will let you in directly"—I opened the door, and found that it was the prisoner there—he asked if "Jumbo" was there—that is another bargeman—I said no; that he was gone to his barge—he said, "I have got a dozen for him"—he did not say a dozen of what—one of his hands had a little blood on it—he came in the course of the next day and asked me if I would buy a pair—he did not say what, neither did I see anything—I had heard that Mr. Tyler's fowls were lost, and I said, "No"—Mr. Tyler's is about a hundred and fifty yards from me—I had heard in the morning of the robbery—I had not known the prisoner to be a fowl dealer before—I never knew anything wrong of him, except getting a little tipsy, as other men do—he has worked with me along the wharf—he never asked me to buy a pair before—he was tipsy on Thursday morning when he asked me this, and so he was on Wednesday night.

ROBErT KEENES . I am a labourer of Barking—I was in Mr. Clark's tap-room at Barking on 12th April—I and ray family have been lodging there for five weeks—the prisoner came in and said, "Do you think you could sell a couple for me?"—I had heard of Mr. Tyler's fowls being lost, and I said "No"—he did not say a couple of what.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you with him the night before? A. I was; in Mr. Clark's house, where I was lodging—I might have had something to drink that night—I and a fellow named Pickett had a (few cross words, and I hit him and he hit me—the prisoner came in, and he said, "Well, I think it is very hard for fellows like you to be fighting," and he parted us.

MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Did you have much of a fight? A. No, only one or two blows—it drew blood, so that the blood that he had on his hands might be some of that—I went up stairs to bed about half-an-hour afterwards, and 1 left him there then.

MR. BEST. Q. Were you examined before the Magistrate? A. I did not go before the Magistrate—I work now in the place where the prisoner used to work.

MR. ORRIDGE to CHRISTOPHER TYLER. Q. Did you employ the last witness in the place of the prisoner? A. I never employed either of them—it is

only for odd jobs—they are not my men at all; only paid by the hour if they do any work. JOHN CLARK (re-examined). The prisoner has worked for me two years—he has always been in my house, and I never saw anything against him—he has not had access to every part of my house—he goes into the public-room, and the tap-room—he could have taken anything out of the bar if he had been so disposed—Keenes works for me—there is not a bit of ill feeling on his part against the prisoner.

JOHN SMITH (Policeman, K 416). I know the prisoner—I have seen him, wear this guernsey a great many times, almost daily—there is a hole in the collar of the guernsey that has been darned up with a piece of worsted—that makes me recognise it.

Cross-examined. Q. How many other persons do you know the clothes of in this locality? A. Well, there are a great many—I do not notice all the holes and darns in the collars, unless I have a reason to handle them.

JAMES BRIDEN (Policeman, K 157). On the morning of 12th April, from what I had heard of Mr. Tyler's fowls I went in search of them—I found them on the following morning, Friday, about two or three hundred yards from Mr. Tyler's premises—they were in this guernsey in a field—I don't know the difference between a guernsey and a jersey—I left them in the field, and watched them till Monday morning—nobody came for them—I took them away—I showed them to Mr. Tyler.

COURT. Q. NOBODY came for them from Friday to Monday? A. No.


7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-475
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

Related Material

475. WILLIAM HARRIS (80) , Feloniously uttering a forged 5l. Bank of England note, with intent to defraud.

MR. GENT conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM HENRY MILLINGTON . I am clerk to Mr. Saville, auctioneer of Chigwell—on Thursday and Friday, 22d and 23d of March, we had a sale at Claybury Hall, Barking—the prisoner came on Thursday, the first day of the sale—I was standing outside the front door—he came up to me, and asked for Mr. Saville—I asked him his name—he said, "Harris of Stratford",—I said, "Are you any relation to Mr. Harris, the ironmonger?"—I did not say of where—Mr. Harris is a gentleman known to us—the prisoner said, "I ought to be"—I said, "What! are you his father?"—he said, "I am old enough"—I was not quite satisfied with that answer, and I asked him a second time, "Are you his father?"—he said, "I am old enough to be, aint I?"—he said he wanted to see Mr. Saville, because a friend of his, a Mr. Thompson, who was a large wholesale grocer in Stratford, was going to sell off his stock, and his lease too—he did not say auything more—I believe I then left him, to find Mr. Saville for him—Mr. Harris, the ironmonger, lives in High-street, Stratford—on Friday, the second day of the sale, the prisoner came to the sale and purchased a lead pump for 1l. 19s.—on the Saturday he came to pay that for it, and 8s. for other lots which he had purchased, making a total of 2l. 7s.—he gave me, in payment, this 5l. note (produced)—I observed to him, "This is a rum un; where did you get it from?"—I cannot remember whether he made me an answer—he did not give any direction as to any name on it—believing him to be father of Mr. Harris, Ironmoger of staratford, I wrote on the note, "Mr. harris, stratford," and gave him the change—he did not give the name of Harris on that occasion—I believe, when he came into the room I said, "Good morning, Mr. Hrris"—I left the note, with other monies, at Mr. Saville's residence—I wrote the name on it

immediately I received it—Mr. Saville brought it to the office on the Thursday following, it having been returned to him by his bankers as forged—I made inquiries—I did not find the prisoner at Stratford—the prisoner came to the sale in a cart with a name on—that induced me to go to Stepney—the police found him there—we gave information that evening to the police, and I went with them the next day, and found him in bed at 13, Wellesley-street, Stepney—I took the note with me—I said, "Well, Hams, we never heard from your friend Thompson"—he said, "No, it is put off"—I then questioned him as to how he paid me—he said that he gave me a 5l. note—I said, "Exactly; that 5l. note was a forged one"—he said, "I did not know it; I took it at an auction sale, "or "of an auctioneer" I don't know which—he said he did not know it—I said, "If you took it at an auction sale, you know where you got it"—he merely said that he should not be able to find the man; that the man was a broker—we have not had Mr. Thompson's sale on yet—I afterwards asked him Mr. Thompson's address—he said, "You cannot find him; he has gone down to live in the country;" he said Thompson had sold the things by private contract"—I said that it was rather a short time to do that in.

Cross-examined by MR. TINDAL ATKINSON. Q. Were there a great many people at your sale? A. Yes; a great many—Mr. Saville is well known there, and has a very extensive business—we have only lately commenced auction sales—Mr. Saville was a very largo builder, and now he has united the profession of an auctioneer and the trade of a builder—I was not having a little fun with him, when I spoke about its being a rum-looking note—I made no more remarks than what I have said—I took the note, believing him to be the father of Mr. Harris of Stratford—I looked at it through the light, and I wetted it—I satisfied myself that it was a good note—I don't know when it went to the bankers, but I believe Mr. Saville sent it up on the Mondaymorning—he brought it back to the office on Thursday, 29th, marked, "Forged"—I went to the bank just to inquire whether the bank would prosecute—I understood that they would not.

WILLIAM COPPING (Police-sergeant, K 3.) On the afternoon of 30th I went with the last witness to 13 A Wellesley-street, Stepney—I had not been there before—I saw the prisoner there in bed—it was between 11 and 12 in the morning—he occupies a back-room upstairs—I don't think I spoke to him at all—I searched the room, and found three watches, 3l. in gold, and 2s. in silver—there was some conversation with a female in the room about a cart, and I said, "Whose cart was it that you went in," he said his own—he was taken to the station and told the charge, and told he need not state anything unless he liked—he stated that he took the note at some sale at the West-end—I received this note from the last witness.

Cross-examined. Q. Was he very ill when you went there? A. He appeared to be so; but the doctor said he was quite able to be removed, and so I removed him—I have been to the Bank of England about this note.

JOSEPH BUMSTEAD . I am Inspector of notes to the Bank of England—this note is a forgery.

Cross-examined. Q. I believe it is the practice of the Bank to prosecute in most cases? A. Yes—they are not the prosecutors in this case—whenever a case of forgery takes place it is their practice to prosecute: they see the depositions, and ascertain the facts.

GUILTYRecommended to Mercy by the Jury on account of his age (80).

Confined Twelve Month.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-476
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

476. GEORGE ROGERS (40), and SARAH ROGERS (30) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

GEORGE ROGERS— GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.

SARAH ROGERS— GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-477
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

477. ANN DELANEY alias McDONALD (34) , Feloniously uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. COOKE conducted the Prosecution. EDWARD GRAY (Police-sergeant, K 20). I produce a certificate of conviction (Read: Central Criminal Court, May, 1859. Ann Delaney convicted of uttering counterfeit coin. Confined Nine Months.

") The prisoner is the person—I was a witness in the case.

WELCOME BARTON . I keep a beer-ahop at Plumstead, in Kent—about 3 o'clock iu the afternoon of 23d or 24th March, the prisoner came for half a pint of sixpenny ale in a yellow mug—I served her, and she gave me a half-crown—I gave her 2s. and 3d. in copper—, I had not shut the till before I found that the half-crown was bad; I bit it and put it aside—on 6th April the prisoner came again, and brought a 1d. piece and two half-pence for a pint of beer, but I did not say anything to her about the half-crown—on 13th April she came again for a pint of porter—I served her, she took a 2s. piece from her month and threw it on the coutiler—I took it up, and tried it between my teeth; it was bad and I told her so—I asked her whether she recollected coming in about three weeks previously and having a pint of sixpenny ale—she said she did—I said, "You gave me a bad halfcrown"—she never denied it, and I got, a policeman and gave her in custody, with the bad half-crown and florin—the prisoner said she was not aware that they were bad.

Prisoner. Q. Did you not tell the magistrate that you did not find the half-crown was bad till the person had left the premises? A. Yes.

JOSEPH BARTON (Policeman, R 154). The prisoner was given into my custody; I have the florin and the half-crown—she said she was not aware that the half-crown was bad—I then charged her with the florin, and she said she was not aware that that was bad—there was 1s. 6d. and 4 1/2 d. good found on the prisoner.

WILLIAM BROWN I am Inspector of coin to the Royal Mint—these are both bad.

GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-478
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown; Not Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

478. WILLIAM BROWN (30), WILLIAM MURRAY (21), and GEORGE TURPIN (24), were indicted for a riot, and assaulting the police in the execution of their duty.

MR. BEASLEY conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS ABRAHAM . I live at 19, Trafalgar-row, Greenwich—my father keeps a green-grocer's shop; I have a brother in the same shop—on Easter Tuesday evening, about 8 o'clock, I was unloading a load of potatoes in front of our shop—I saw a soldier being brought along in custody of two policemen; a number of soldiers were following him behind—they had a lot of sticks in their hauds, and were throwing stones—the policemen came into our shop through the front-door, which was open, and the soldiers came in after them; they were throwing stones and making a disturbance—I went out after my horse, which was standing at the door; I got a man to come and hold the horse, but I found the soldier were in the shop throwing the

potatoes and stones about, and the men outside were doing the same—they threw down a desk in the shop and the weights and scales, and broke two windows with violence—we had a fence at the back of the shop and that was broken, but I can't say by whom—the policemen took the soldiers that they had, out at the back way—I received a kick in the kidneys, but I can't tell by whom—I was much hurt and alarmed—I went and took the horse out of the cart and got on it and galloped off for assistance to the station while my father and my brother who were inside the shop were overpowered; I cannot identify any of the prisoners—there was a general disturbance, in which all the soldiers were taking part—more soldiers came up before I went away—they assisted the others—they were all joining in it.

JOHN JAMES ABRAHAM . I am brother of the last witness—on the evening of 10th April, I was in the shop, there was a cry at the door that the soldiers were coming after the policemen who had the man in custody—there were about eighteen or twenty soldiers, they had sticks in their hands and were throwing stones—the police were not able to contend with them; there were too many of them, and the police brought their prisoner into our shop—the soldiers came in after them; they got into the private part of the house, and into the garden, and every part—they poured in and filled the house, and they were all in action throwing stones and potatoes and anything they could lay hold of—they broke the window and burst the door open—the prisoner Murray took a quarter of a cwt. and threw it at me, saying, "Charge, you b—r"—it did not hit me, for while he was throwing it at me another soldier came to the scales and got another weight to throw at me, that broke the fall of the weight, so that instead of hitting me it fell on my toes—Murray's manner was very violent—one of them got the scales down, there were three of them about the scales—they took one of the shutters from the door and tried to burst the private door open—we had shut it, and it was broken open again—Murray was intoxicated—those who were outside were throwing stones and potatoes into the shop.

CHARLES ABRAHAM . On that Tuesday night, I was in my back parlour, and was alarmed by hearing a tremendous noise outside—I ran to the front door to see what it was, and saw a number of marines and other soldiers standing outside—they said, "Turn the b—r out"—I did not know what they meant—I shut the door and went to the other door leading to the adjoining shop—I saw two policemen in the shop, they had got a soldier in custody—when I shut the front door it was burst open—I shut the door, as the soldiers were trying to get in, and it was broken open again—I went to shut it again and one of the soldiers outside gave me a blow on my thumb—during the time I was shutting the door my daughter conveyed the two policemen and the soldier through the back-door into the yard, and they got away—I then saw Murray strike Sergeant Atkins with his fist in front of my shop—I saw Murray rush by into the shop, he knocked down the scales and broke them—he took up a quarter of a cwt. and said, "Charge, charge," and threw the weight at my son—there were other soldiers in the shop, and I saw potatoes flying in all directions, and stones also—Murray made a stumble in throwing the weight the first time and it fell short—he got up, picked it up again and said, "Charge, charge," and threw the weight again—there might be a hundred soldiers outside my shop—some of them were throwing stones and potatoes in my shop and outside as well—I felt a stick—this was going on from half an hour to three quarters—I was very much alarmed—I went outside my shop and stood on the

pathway—my son returned with the patrol and some policemen, and Sergeant Golding said, "Now, my lads, take out your staves," and the moment they did that the soldiers ran away.

WILLIAM ATKINS (Police-sergeant, R 7). On 10th April at 8 o'clock at night, I was near the Tollgate in Woolwich-road—I saw a man coming towards me with a butter-tub in his hand—there was a cry of "Stop him"—I stopped him, and was taking him to the station with another officer—when we got to Mr. Abraham's shop, the soldiers tried to rescue him—I received several blows and kicks from the soldiers—there were sixty or eighty of them—when I got to the shop I received a blow which knocked me down—I got up and saw seven or eight soldiers with sticks; I got several blows—I went to the shop—there were then about a hundred soldiers in the street drawn up in a line across the road—they were throwing stones and one struck me, it cut through my hat and cut my head; I have not been able to do duty since—there was quite a riot—the people were very much annoyed and alarmed.

FREDERICK BARNARD (Police-sergeant, R 62). On the night of Easter Tuesday, I was with Atkins taking the man; he was a soldier—we were followed by sixty or seventy soldiers, they were throwing stones—I saw several stones strike Atkins—I was not struck worth mentioning—Atkins was knocked down opposite the shop by a stone—one stone knocked him down insensible—I went through the shop with the prisoner and got through a back way—after I left him in custody I came back again to the street—I saw the prisoner Brown taking a very active part in the riot—he was throwing stones in the direction of Mr. Abraham's shop—I heard some one say, "Come on, let us give it to all the b—rs"—I spoke to Brown, I told him to lay down the stones, he had five in one hand; I made him lay them down—he was very much the worse for liquor—I am sure he is the man—I kept my eye on him, and afterwards took him in custody.

Brown. Q. Where were the stones throwing? A. In the direction of the police.

WILLIAM HUTLEY (Policeman, R 371). On Tuesday evening, 10th April, I was in Trafalgar-road—I saw the row, and saw the prisoner Murray throw a stone at the officer, which struck him on the head—I could not take him then, the stones were being thrown so fast—I afterwards followed him and took him in custody—I did not lose sight of him before I took him—I apprehended him about a quarter before 9—he was not sober—there was a great riot.

EDWARD HAYWARD (Policeman, R 354). I was called to the riot—it was going on to a great extent—the stones were throwing very much by the soldiers—I saw all the three prisoners there—I was struck down by a stone which Murray threw—he was about a yard from me—it struck me down senseless—I bled very much and became insensible—I was pelted while I was lying down—I was picked up by two civilians and taken to a doctor—I was much hurt—this riot was of an alarming character—I saw Brown throw a stone, and saw Turpin with a stick, actively engaged in the riot—I also saw him throw a stone.

CECIL CALVERT COGAN . I am a surgeon, and reside in Trafalgar-row—on the night of 10th April, a man named Peacock waa brought into my surgery suffering from a scalp wound and loss of blood—Atkins was also brought to me; he was suffering from a very serious scalp wound—he was under my care about five weeks—I have not attended him ever since—he went in the country for his health—he lost much blood, and it has had a very serious effect

on his constitution; he is not fit for duty and is not likely to be for some time to come—the wound was such as might have been inflicted with a stone—I also dressed Hayward, he had a serious wound on the forehead, such as might be produced by a blunt instrument, a stone, or a stick—I attended him for ten days afterwards, he is now fit for duty—I afterwards went out into the row; I saw a great riot—I saw the prisoner Turpin with a stick—I tried to persuade him to go on—the soldiers were drawn across the road.

JOSHUA GOLDING (Police-inspector, R). On the night of 10th April, Abrahams came on horseback to the station in Park-row, for assistance—I summoned some more policemen and went down myself—there were eighteen or twenty policemen there—the soldiers were formed in a line across the street, a large body, and in an excited state, mustering eighty or a hundred—I gave the men orders to draw their truncheons and advance on them—the soldiers were throwing stones; the police advanced upon them and they ran away—they were all drunk; they were in a very excited state—the inhabitants were very much alarmed.

Brown's Defence. I did not throw any stones at all.

Murray's Defence. I was drunk.

Turpin's Defence. I was merely passing down the street.

The prisoner Brown called

HENRY BRIGGS . I am a gunner in the Artillery—I was on leave about 8 o'clock on the evening of 10th April—I was coming down the town and saw Brown—there was a row commencing, and he said to me, "We will get away"—I did not take notice what was going on—I saw stones being thrown, but no sticks—there was a noise and a crying out—I went into a public-house, and when I came out I heard that the police had got him in custody, telling him to put the stones down.

BROWN— GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

MURRAY— GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.


7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-479
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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479. MARY ANN GOUGE (17), and ELIZABETH GOUGE (41) , Stealing 6 yards of cotton print and other goods, of William Walter Hodsoll, the master of Mary Ann Gouge.

MR. GENT conducted tlte Prosecution.

ROSINA ANN HODSOLL . I am the wife of William Walter Hodsoll, an auctioneer—Mary Ann Gouge was in my service three weeks or a month—she left on Saturday fortnight, my husband discharged her—I missed a silver spoon, two pieces of cotton print, some artificial flowers, and three lace collars—I cannot exactly say when I last saw them safe—it was about three weeks or a month before she left—one of the collars I had worn—this printed cotton is mine—it is now in children's dresses, but they were not made up when I lost them—what I lost was like this pink and this lilac—the pink was four yards and a quarter, and the lilac two yards and a quarter—I have some like these with me now—I am certain these three collars are mine—they were made a present to me—I had had them about twelve months, and had worn them constantly—these flowers are mine, I can swear to them—I have no doubt of them—this teaspoon is one that has been in my house a long while—I have brought another spoon like it—it is one of a set we have had long in the family—there are initials on the one I produce, and on the one the policeman produces there is a slight mark of erasure—I have noticed that the stamps are the same—I had them before I was married—I have the remaining parts of these prints—they

are the same pattern as these two children's frocks—I did not cut the pieces off—this lilac was fourteen yards and a quarter, and two yards and a quarter of that are gone; and the other was twelve yards and a quarter, and four yards and a quarter of that are gone—I did not cut off either of these, nor did any one by my direction—my husband has measured them in my presence, and four yards and a quarter and two yards and a quarter are gone; the quantity in these little frocks corresponds with the quantity I missed—I gave the prisoner one collar, but neither of these—I never gave her, or authorised her to take any of these things.

Cross-examined by MR. LEWIS. Q. Where did you buy these prints? A. The lilac one in the Borough, about three months ago; and the pink one I bought in Deptford more than twelve months ago—I can say that I had twelve yards and a quarter of this—I bought it to make a dress, but I had not made it up—I first missed some from this pink, three or four days after the prisoner had left—I measured it in my parlour after I had bought it—I did the same with the lilac—I have had about three servants in the mean time—my drawer was kept locked, I had the key of it—I did not find any violence done to the lock—I don't recollect giving the key of that drawer to the prisoner—when I missed these things my husband gave notice to the police—I know these flowers by their being in bunches, they were kept under lock in a box up stain—I did not find any violence to the lock of that box—some flowers were not kept under key, and they remain safe—those which were locked up were stolen—these collars were kept locked up—the value of these three collars is 4s.—they were old collars—I did not give the prisoner these—I gave her one collar; I could not say whether it was in the same place with these—there is a mark on this spoon where the erasure has been—when I went to the prisoner's house the constable found the flowers; I heard the prisoner say they were given to her by Mrs. Smith of Kestern—I believe the constable has been to inquire—I heard the prisoner's mother say that she had the materials of a tally-man to make up into dresses, and she said the spoon had been in the family twenty years—this spoon was found in a work-box—when I went to the house the policeman showed me the flowers, the collars, and the spoon—I did not see the dresses till I was before the magistrate—I made no charge against the prisoner when she left.

CLARA WILLIAMS . I am a dressmaker, and live at New Cross—on the Tuesday after Good-Friday I received some cotton print from Elizabeth Gouge to make up into dresses—these are the two frocks I made up—the pink one was torn up into lengths to make the skirt, and a piece left for the body—the pink was from three to four yards—the other, I think, over two yards—when I took the pink frock home she said, "I don't want any one to see them while you are making them up"—I told her there was no one coming into my room to see them—I don't know how long the prisoner's husband has been in service.

WILLIAM WALTER HODSOLL . I know both these spoons—one is without initials and one with—I had them long before I was married—I had half a dozen of them—they have been used every day—the letters on the back, the Hall mark, are alike—I have no doubt that this is my property—I know these flowers.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you give the same reason for knowing them, that they have no mark? A. No; I know the spoons were safe when the prisoner was in my employ—we had the spoons in use the day before she left

—we only had two of them in use—I should say the worth of this spoon is about half-a-crown—the prisoner has left about three weeks or a month.

JOSEPH GALE (Policeman, 270 R.) I took Mary Ann Gouge—I told her she was charged with stealing two pieces of print from her late master—she said she knew nothing at all about them—I took Elizabeth Gouge—I told her to produce the two dresses which she had given Mrs. Williams to make up—she went up stairs and fetched this pink one—I told her I wanted another; she went up and fetched a washed-out one; I told her that was not the one I wanted, I wanted the one that was given Mrs. Williams to make up, and she went up and brought this one—she said she bought them of a tallyman—Mary Ann Gouge said she knew nothing about them—I got three keys from her at the station—one of them opened a work-box in which I found this silver tea-spoon; in a box up stairs without a lid to it I found these flowers, and in a basket down stairs I found these three collars—the elder prisoner and her husband keep that house—there is only their family in the house—when I had got these things, I took them to the cell—Elizabeth Gouge said that the spoon had been in the family for years—she said the flowers had been given by Mrs. Smith of Kestern and some other ladies—Mary Ann said that the collars had been given her by Mrs. Hodsoll.

Cross-examined. Q. There was no concealment? A. No; I went down to Kestern; I showed the flowers to Mrs. Smith, she said she had not given her the flowers.


7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-480
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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480. JOHN WARWICKSHIRE (23) , Feloniously killing and slaying James Bellchambers.

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Two Months.

Before Mr. Recorder.

7th May 1860
Reference Numbert18600507-481
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

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481. WILLIAM COX (17), WILLIAM LEHMANN (29), JOHANN FERDINAND BESCHOTT (25), JOHANN POLL (22), and WILLIAM HANSCHILDT (21) , Unlawfully conspiring to injure James Hewitt, a master mariner, and to charge him with having caused the loss of the ship John Sugars.

MR. SOLICITOR-GENERL with MR. DIGBY SEYMOUR conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS HENRY FARRAR . I am Secretary to the Marine Department of the Board of Trade—inquiries about wrecks come under my department—the inquiry which took place before Mr. Traill at Greenwich, in the case of the loss of the John Sugars, was directed by the Board of Trade; by an order from the solicitor—Mr. Cumberland sometimes acts as solicitor in such prosecutions by the Board of Trade.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Is the report made by the Magistrate laid before you afterwards? A. The report is sent by the Magistrate to the Board, with a copy of the evidence certified by the Magistrate, and all the documents exhibited in the case, and the Board of Trade form their opinion upon it so far as their jurisdiction is concerned. Here is the report that has been transmitted by the captain in this matter and which was sent to the Board of Trade, and the evidence which was given by the captain before Mr. Traill, and also the evidence given by the mate—there was also this protest marked A.—on the foundation of those documents the captain's certificate was suspended for twelve months—I cannot say that that is a very high amount of punishment, it is an ordinary amount of punishment, of course punishments differ very much; in this case the certificate was suspended for want of seamanship and losing the vessel, it had nothing to do with any criminal charge; not taking into consideration the charge of wilfully scuttling the vessel, had that been proved the probability

is that the punishment would have been very much more severe—we should have still been called upon to pronounce it—it is of course, as you may be aware, a very difficult thing to distinguish the criminal from the other charge, but the Board and Mr. Traill did not proceed with regard to the criminal charge—I was not present at the inquiry.

MR. SEYMOUR. Q. In the event of the captain disobeying the rules of the Shipping Company, would that be a case for suspension? A. The Board of Trade have nothing to do with the rules of navigation, but they would no doubt take notice of it—in a recent case a captain was suspended for twelve months for negligently losing a ship in the West Indies—we have the power of cancelling a certificate as well as of suspending it—it is difficult to say what course the Board of Trade would have adopted—if a graver charge, a criminal charge, was laid before them, they would be called upon to cancel it altogether, but it does not come within their jurisdiction to enter into criminal charges of this nature—these (produced) are the original depositions—I produce them from the custody of the Board of Trade.

COURT. Q. Do I understand you that the Board of Trade would not form any opinion as to the evidence upon the criminal charge? A. They endeavoured to put that out of sight altogether—in their letter to Mr. Traill they stated that they threw aside the evidence on the criminal charge altogether—if a captain was convicted of wilfully losing a ship they would cancel his certificate; they would no doubt take into consideration whether the evidence was sufficient in their minds.

JOHN ADOLPHUS GEORGE BOWSTED . I was present at the court during the inquiry—the prisoners appeared as witnesses to support the charge—four of them gave their evidence through an interpreter; they were all sworn in due course—I took minutes of the evidence—these (produced) are the original depositions.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Were the Germans all examined through an interpreter? A. Yes; and the evidence given by them was taken down from the interpreter's lips—the inquiry was a very lengthened one—the captain and mate were both represented by counsel; the inquiry being conducted by the solicitor to the Board of Trade—I am not aware that Mr. Traill held that no counsel could appear on the part of the men, nor do I recollect that there was any such application—the prisoners were produced as witnesses by the Board of Trade—the report marked A. was handed in on behalf of the owner, by Mr. Rutter, the solicitor—the protest was produced by the solicitor for the Customs and the Board of Trade—both those documents were read—I think the captain was not called till the fourth or fifth day, but the protest was put-in—I believe an inquiry was made whether there were any people there from Lloyds' with instructions to prosecute the captain—Mr. Traill said that he should deal with it under the Merchant Seamen's Act—he gave no judgment except the written one which he sent in—I cannot tell how the witnesses were produced or where they came from—the captain's evidence was taken—his statement was not on oath.

MR. SEYMOUR. Q. The witnesses were called I believe by Mr. Cumberland? A. Yes—he examined them from a brief—I think I saw that gentleman (Captain Anderson) there all the time, and Mr. Bubb was there—something was said on the second day about the case opened by the Board of Trade taking the shape of a prosecution—I remember the Magistrate subsequently stating that he would now proceed under the Merchant Shipping Act—that was the second or third day—I think the prisoners had

all been examined (Looking at his notes)—it was on the fourth day. Before that intimation was given as to the first portion of the inquiry, some observation was made to Captain Anderson, and then the charge was entered as one under the Merchant Shipping Act—the counsel who represented the captain, pressed the Magistrate that his evidence and that of the mate should be given on oath, and the Magistrate declined, it not being the practice on these inquiries—no nautical assessor appeared—it is usual generally for these inquiries to be conducted in the presence of a nautical assessor—the Magistrate in reporting on the nautical part of the case had no aid of a nautical person—Captain Hewitt and the mate were bound over afterwards on the application of counsel, to prefer this prosecution.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. I believe Mr. Traill has had a very large experience in these matters? A. Yes—he has conducted fourteen or fifteen of these cases—he is now present on the bench.

CAPTAIN B—. I am Secretary to the Metropolitan Local Marine Board, of which Mr. Traill is a member—Greenwich is within the limits of the jurisdiction of the Port of London.

JAMES TRAILL, ESQ . I am the presiding Magistrate at Greenwich.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Was the examination and cross-examination conducted through an interpreter? A. Yes; I did not feel it to be my duty to hear counsel on the part of the men—after they had made their statement it appeared at the early part of the inquiry that there was matter of an extremely criminal nature imputed to the captain, and I called the attention of the gentlemen of the Board of Trade to the nature of the evidence which assumed a criminal character, and asked if there was any person prepared to prosecute the case in the event of it being sent for trial—on the first occasion a gentleman who is present here, Captain Anderson, expressed a desire that it should go on—the evidence was then before me, and I intimated that I should expect, if that were the case, that a prosecutor should appear to conduct the case before a jury, and I adjourned the case for a day to enable that gentleman to undertake the prosecution—on the following day another gentleman appeared who is here, and I conferred with him, but he did not consider himself as authorised to take the part of prosecutor—I then said that I should exclude certain evidence as not bearing upon the point, and proceeded to make the inquiry as if those witnesses had not been present at all—I founded my report exclusively upon the statement of the captain and the mate and the witnesses they produced, stating that I would not entertain a belief one way or other on the testimony given by the former witnesses, as I was not in a condition to form an opinion one way or other, and I put it out of my mind in forming a judgment of the case—the protest came out of the hands of the Board—the paper which appeared to be the foundation of the protest was produced on the part of the owners or of the master and mate—it came out of that custody; from the gentlemen in attendance who they said were representing the ship, whether owners or masters I do not know—it was produced on behalf of the captain.

MR. SEYMOUR. Q. Did you not intimate that the case would assume the form of a prosecution? A. Yes; I expressed that openly—on the fourth day I intimated that I would now proceed to hear it under the Shipping Act—at that time I had heard the evidence of the prisoners—Captain Anderson and those other gentlemen were present at that time—I sent all the depositions, I did not keep back that part which I excluded from my own mind; I am not authorised to adjudge upon the case—all the evidence

went before the Board of Trade—on the fourth day, speaking of one witnedd and only one witness, I said to Mr. Bull that it was quite clear that the Board of Trade would not make any inquiry dealing with it in a criminal character if they had to deal with such evidence as that—the upshot of the matter was, that having heard the case till the fourth day, I determined not to act at all upon the evidence which pointed to a criminal charge, but to treat it generally under the Merchant Shipping Act, and I can explain why I took that course if necessary.

COURT. Q. There being no person present to conduct the inquiry, you thought your duty was to confine your inquiry under the Merchant Shipping Act? A. Yes.

IGNATIUS POLLAKY . I acted as interpreter in the inquiry before Mr. Traill, at Greenwich—I interpreted well and truly.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. What else are you besides an interpreter? A. I am superintendent of a private inquiry-office in the Temple—I am not a servant of Mr. Field's; I am in connexion with him—I have never been engaged as interpreter in any nautical inquiry before—I am not connected with nautical matters.

MR. SEYMOUR. Were you employed by the Board of Trade? A. Yes; I saw another interpreter there to check me.

The depositions of the several prisoners taken before Mr. Traill were here put in and read, charging Captain Hewitt with the wilful loss of the ship.

HENRY JAMES HEWITT . I am a master mariner, and was lately Captain of the British barque John Sugars—I was appointed to the command in 1859 by Mr. Wilson, of Liverpool—I sailed on 13th December for Adelaide, with a general cargo—there were 16 hands, including myself—we shipped the prisoners as part of our crew; four of them are foreigners—I do not know whether they are all Germans—before we left London my attention was called to the ventilator holes which were in the stem of the ship—this model shows their position on each side—the ventilator on the starboard side was a brass one, the glass of which was broken—the vessel was then taking in heavy cargo, going a long voyage, and for the sake of the ship I thought it would be better to take those lights out, as they were not wanted in the ship—I believe the vessel had carried troops—we were not going to carry passengers, and the ship might have struck and the glass broken, and she would have sunk, so we took them out—this is one of the original glasses (produced)—I plugged the holes up and drove a large fender in from the inside as taut as we could get it—it was wider inside, and narrow on the part outside—I then wedged it from the outside all round the edge of the fender, and then keyed it trunnel fashion—I had the projection cut off, tarred it over, then put a piece of tarred felt and a piece of deal board over that—I made it as safe as I possibly could, and in my opinion a moderate force would not be capable of opening that hole again; especially from the inside, it would be almost impossible—I had no share in the ship whatever—the value of my personal effects on board was about 200l.—I had asked Mr. Pugh if he would put 100l. on my goods, and I ascertained, when I returned to England, that they were assured to the amount of 100l., out of which I had to make good my instruments which I had lost—this (produced) is my policy—it has never been handed to me before—I received 100l., out of which I made good my chronometer, the price of which was 40l., leaving 60l.—I took my wife with me, but left our little boy behind—the ship was lying in the water with her cargo, about 16ft. 9in. aft, and 16ft. 3in. forwards—we had tolerably fine weather when we left London, which continued pretty

well going down channel—the wind was north—we crossed the Bay of Biscay, and I think the first sensible change of weather was on the 21st or 22d, when the wind veered round I think, and I put the head of the ship round W. N. W., it freshened into a gale either on the 22d or 23d—we were under close reefed topsails—we had not, up to that time, been making any water—on the 23d we had very heavy weather—I cannot say whether the ship strained much, but we shipped some water, and I think it was on the 23d a very heavy sea washed away part of our bulwarks forward, and a portion aft also—I think that was the day that the ship commenced to make water—I sounded the pumps that day, and kept them going after that—we had very heavy weather on Christmas-day, and the cabin sky-light was broken in by a sea—we had then close reefed topsails, and part of the day close reefed main-topsails, and I believe we had also a storm trysail only—more bulwarks were then washed away—from the 25th to New Year's Day the weather continued very heavy, and on New Year's Day, Hodson, the chief mate, stated that either the carpenter or cook had told him that there was water coming into the ship forwards—I went down into the lower forecastle, and saw water coming in through a leak in the bows—it was an opening in the wood ends—I think the water was a little above, and a great body of water came in every time the vessel dipped—I made every effort to stop the leak, and the chief mate and the carpenter helped me—the leak was two or three feet, I think, and my impression was that the ends had started—the carpenter, myself, and the chief mate were slung over the bows, and we got a piece of wood and a piece of flannel nailed over the wood end—I was over the bows several times that day, but it was impossible to stop over any time together, the vessel was plunging too much—I did my best to stop the leak, and it kept a little water out, but not all—one pump was kept constantly going, and the other for an hour and a half, at the end of every watch as the watches were relieved—there is a watch every four hours—the pumps suck at 6 inches, and I tried to keep the water down to that depth, and was able to do so down to January 4—I was then trying to make a W.S.W. course—I used one of Norrey's charts, I think—on 4th January we were lying-to under close reefed topsails—it was blowing very heavy indeed, and between 11 and 12 in the forenoon, I was in my cabin with Mrs. Hewitt, when a very heavy sea struck the ship forwards, and I felt it tremble—I went on deck, met the mate, and said, "What is that?"—he said, "A very heavy sea has struck the ship in the bows"—I went forward and examined the state of the bows—I found almost all the gear, immediately below the cutwater, gone—this is the cutwater, these are the knees, and these are the head-rails—the head-rails were completely washed away on the starboard side, and the two lower knees completely washed off—the upper knee was washed from the cutwater, and the wood ends all completely started to the water's edge—this is so constructed as to fit into the stem of the ship—the stem slightly overlaps the end, so that with the knees, and all together, the effect is to brace the whole together—the straining of the cutwater caused a dislocation of this end, and the planks were completely disjointed; they sprang out at the extreme end—it exposed the wood end, and that made the opening—I think the stem must have slued and forced the plank out—I saw the wood ends completely started out—(The witness went to the model, and explained where the damage was)—the sea struck the vessel right in the bows, so, and the great leverage here must have slued the stem and forced the plank out—I distinctly saw that the planks were started out, and an opening made; I saw nothing else to account for it—the cutwater was loose and moving—

when I discovered this I immediately put the ship before the wind—most of the gear on the port side also was gone—the head-rails were gone, but the rails were there—water was also coming in on the port side, but the principal damage was on the starboard side—as soon as I got the ship before the wind, I gave orders to bring a blanket, which we tried to get nailed oyer the bows, and were about an hour about it, but it was washed away almost before our eyes—I next tried a piece of blanket, but it kept on for a very short time, and was then washed away—when both these efforts failed I hung a sail round the bows, and made one part of it fast to the cat-head in this way, but cut a slit to allow it to come up to the bows, and these two parts were all taut with the cutwater, and as the vessel was running before the wind, it kept a little of the water out—it was passed over the bows—it remained there till about 4 next morning—I kept the pumps constantly going all night, and next morning (Thursday) I tried to get at the leak on the inside—we cut away this inner plank, called the ceiling, from the outside, for the purpose of getting at the planking outside; but I found that it would be very dangerous to wedge the opening from the inside, for fear it should wedge the planking and make it worse, and we were only able to keep poking oakum in the holes, which the carpenter kept doing with some oakum which was got from the fore-part, where it was kept under the direction of the carpenter and steward—finding I could not do anything more effectual than poking oakum in from the inside, I resolved on bearing away for Cadiz—I did so—we saw a schooner next morning (Thursday, the 5th), and ran up the ensign, with the Union down—that is a signal of distress, but the schooner never saw it, as it came on foggy, hazy weather—we saw St. Vincent's light on the coast of Spain, on Friday morning, the 6th, at 4 o'clock—the wind was then about N.W., and we were about 160 miles from Cadiz—we had both pumps going that forenoon constantly up to dinner-time, which was at 12 o'clock—the men had not had breakfast—they were very bad with regard to strength, and were all complaining of sores, and chaps, from their clothes constantly rubbing up and down with the salt water, and their physical strength was getting worse from pumping all that time, and from the sea constantly washing over them—after they had had their dinner at 12, the ship was getting down in the water—we bad no tea that day, because the galley-fire was washed out—I gave directions to haul the chains up, and the men commenced doing so after dinner—it took about three hours altogether—I had, at that time, altered my intention about Cadiz, and intended to try and get the ship in under Cape St. Mary—I did not abandon that intention, but we did not make Cape St Mary, because the wind would not allow us to reach there, so I altered her course—the wind headed me all the time, so that she broke off that course—after hauling the chains up we pumped again with all hands—I think it would then be approaching 5 o'clock—they continued pumping about three-quarters of an hour or an hour, and then refused to pump any more—I tried to encourage them to pump longer—I rallied them, and asked them if they would not pump a little longer—I entreated them to do so, and said that the land was not a great distance from us—they said, "No, captain, you see the state our hands are in, and we cannot pump any more"—I said, "Now there is less wind, and there is a chance to save our lives"—they said, "We cannot pump any more"—my efforts were unsuccessful, and the pumps were abandoned—the ship was then getting further down—the deeper she went, the greater the rush of water would be—we had all the light goods on the top; not on deck; I mean the upper stratum—if I

had ventured to risk letting the men leave the pumps for the purpose of throwing out the cargo, a very great deal of water would have gone down the hatches—it would have consumed a considerable time before we got through the light cargo to the heavy cargo—when I found that the men would not really pump for me any more I gave orders to put the boats out—we commenced doing so about 6 o'clock, and in doing so, the pinnace got broken—that was not done by my directions, for I had nothing else to fly to but my boats—we had nothing then left but the long boat and the gig; and the chief mate and eight of the crew got into the long boat, and myself, my wife, and six others, into the gig—I was the last person on board the sinking ship—the water was then washing over her—she was level with the water's edge—there was a heavy sea—the wind was light—neither of the boats had masts—I rigged a mast with oars—the long boat, under the command of the chief mate, pulled away—I stayed by the ship as long as I could; then got into my boat and pulled in the same direction—my wife sat at the stern, on the stern sheets—it was a narrow-sterned gig—we had no ballast in her—there is a seat round the stern, and we had to seat ourselves as well as we could—I had my desk in the boat, the sextant and case, and one bag of clothes—my desk contained the log and the ship's papers—I had not my octant—I did not, before I left the ship, throw out an octant or sextant from the vessel—it is not true that I threw any instrument, or any box, from off the ship, before I left it; in fact I had not an octant—the second mate, Beschott, steered the fore part of the night, and I steered the remainder—he sat on the top of my desk—I agreed to change places with him before daybreak, I think, and took the steerage—the wind was freshening all the time, and the sea was getting up too, and running higher—when I took the helm I had to sit on the box—it raised me so high that it nearly threw me over the quarter, two or three times as the boat plunged in the sea; and in my opinion it was necessary for the boat's safety that I should get lower down in the boat—I therefore threw my desk, my box with the sextant, and the bag of clothes overboard—that was all that belonged to me—anything else that had been at my hands at the time, I would have taken—the desk contained personal valuables of mine—I made a sail with a piece of old canvas which was thrown into the boat, and used an oar for a mast which was broken when the wind freshened—we were shipping water—I saw smoke about 8 o'clock in the morning, and then saw a steamer, which turned out to be the Nicholas Wood—we bore for her and tried to attract her attention but did not succeed; she steamed past us—it was about three-quarters of an hour after that that I threw the things overboard—we were then I think about thirty or forty miles from any accessible shore; I cannot say exactly; and if we had not been picked up next day, I do not think there was the slightest chance of saving our lives, and I did it as an inducement to the men to throw their things over if it should become necessary—I could not order them to throw theirs over unless I showed them the example—two or three hours after that the Nicholas Wood, commanded by Captain Doll, picked us up—there was then water in our boat and we were very wet—the boy Cox was in very bad health previous to leaving the vessel—he was not in a condition to attend his watches regularly, and did not do so—he was not able to leave his berth for six or seven days up to a day or two before the ship went down—he was not able to discharge any duties up to the time of leaving the ship—the boy Wager, waited on him, and sometimes the steward, and sometimes I did—the Nicholas Wood brought us to Newport—I wrote out, on board of her, a memorandum of what happened to the ship, and

after doing so I asked Beschott, the second mate, whether he would come aft and hear it read over and sign it, if it was correct, in the presence of Captain Tuck; he said, Yes, if I would give him two months' pay—I am quite sure that document was not read over to him before he claimed the two months' pay—I said that I could not give him anything of the sort; I could not give him two months' pay out of my own pocket—he said that it was German fashion to give two months' pay when a ship was lost—I said that he could only claim wages from me up to the time the ship was lost—he then refused to hear the paper read—I then asked the carpenter Lehmann, if he would sign it—he said, Yes, if I would give him two months' pay—I said, "Will the crew sign this document?"—he said, "Yes, if you give them two months' pay"—I called them a set of rascals and told them I would put them all in gaol when I got home—upon that the second mate shook his finger at me in this way and said, "There are ten of us, and not so many of you, what you speak is for nothing"—I do not know of any holes being bored or cut or made in any part of the ship—I never directly or indirectly sanctioned or directed the making of any holes—I did nothing after leaving London to the ventilators that were filled up, nor do I know of anything being done—they could not have been driven out without my knowledge—I never directed any of the men to say when they got ashore that there was fourteen feet of water in the ship—the chief mate did not say to me "We have made a hole, and we have made another one, or we should have been there till 12 o'clock"—the mate did not come to me on the 6th in the forecastle and speak to me, laughing—before I totally abandoned the ship, and after putting up the signal of distress, I put the name of the ship in a bottle, with a short account, and threw it overboard—the chief mate prepared it—he kept the log.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. The throwing over of the bottle was on the 25th, was it not? A. The bottle went overboard the day before the ship was abandoned—it was thrown over on the 5th, about noon, after the mate had written his log—I asked Besohott and the others to sign this report, because I wanted to have the document with me, as something to report the loss of the vessel—there had been no suggestion that I had anything to do with the loss of the vessel—I never heard of a captain asking for such a thing before—I believe it is usual for the captain and second mate to certify—I asked the carpenter to do so, and I asked him whether the crew would not sign—I wanted the crew to sign, because I really thought the second mate and the carpenter had been saying something to these men—I thought so because the carpenter said, "If you give them two months' pay they will sign it"—I had no particular reason for the men to sign it; all I suggested was for the officers to sign it: I suggested that they should; through asking the carpenter, and his answering on the part of the crew, I naturally thought that there must be an understanding between him and them—I had drawn up the report at the time the carpenter said, "The crew will sign it if you give them two months' pay"—I did not ask the crew to sign it—I never had such a thought in my mind until after the carpenter answered on the part of the crew—I asked the second mate and the carpenter; and then I asked the carpenter if the crew would sign it, and he said, "Yes, if you give them two months' pay"—I knew nothing about the claim for two months' pay till the carpenter told me—I drew that statement up in the cabin for the purpose of having the carpenter's and second mate's signatures to show the loss of the vessel—I never asked them to sign it; I did not want them to sign it—I asked the second mate first

and then the carpenter, and he said that he would sign it if I would give him two months' pay—this report is true as nigh as possible.

Q. Is it half true? A. On my oath there are not half of the occurrences in that document—nobody signed it at all—this is it (produced)—it is my writing—I had not heard any demand about two months' wages when I signed it—I drew it up on board that vessel—(The report was here read)—we had very serious damage done to the ship on 1st January—a very heavy sea struck her, and a fissure about two and a half feet wide was made by the blow of the sea, which caused a straining of the ends of two planks—there was an opening there (Pointing to the place in the model) and the waves came in every time the ship plunged—I make no mention of that in my report—I did not consider it so serious a matter as the second occurrence—the leak was two or three feet wide, and a heavy sea came in every time the vessel plunged; but I considered the next occurrence was more important to mention—I wrote this report only two or three days afterwards, when I was on board the steamer that rescued us—I did not think, when I wrote it, of what had happened to the vessel on 1st January—we were a considerable distance to the west of Lisbon Harbour on 1st January—I quite forget the latitude and longitude of the vessel on that day, though I give you the latitude and longitude on the 22d and 24th—I remember it on the 4th January because I was compelled to remember it—I had to run for some place and had to shape a course—I think Lisbon might be the nearest harbour, but we were a long way to the west of it—I made no attempt to get into Lisbon Harbour—the gale was N.N.W. to S.W.—when the heavy sea struck the vessel on 1st January, I talked to the chief officer about getting her into harbour and getting her repaired—I considered it a serious injury—it was after that injury that I was slung over to remedy the injury that was then effected—I was also slung over on the 4th—I discussed the matter with my first officer as to the propriety of running for Lisbon, but we were uncertain of the position of the ship, and had I run down and missed the Lisbon bar, the ship was not in a condition te ride off it—I knew at that time pretty well what our position was, but I have forgotten now—I cannot give you any idea of latitude and longitude, nor of the position of the ship when I thought the bar prevented her entering Lisbon—I can give you no idea about it—I discussed it with the mate—I dare say there might be some talk about it—the discussion would not be entered in the log; it was a short discussion—I have forgotten where we were—I dare say the injury was entered in the log; I have not the slightest doubt of it—the particulars of the latitude and longitude may or may not have been entered—the mate would keep the log—I saw it almost every day—I will not speak positively of the latitude and longitude at the time this happened—it ought to have been reckoned, and if the log was properly kept it would have shown the position of the vessel when this occurrence took place; but the position of the ship was so uncertain that it was only a rough account—the vessel was struck on Wednesday and went down about 9 o'clock on Friday night—the ship sank on the 5th, the sea having struck her on the 4th—that is according to this report which I wanted these men to sign—there may be a mistake in it, but the days and times I cannot be mistaken in—I wrote this report myself, and may have made a mistake, but it was on Friday night that the ship went down—I did not consult the second mate or read it over with him; I read it over with the chief mate—he and I were both acquainted with the terms of it—the men refused to work the pumps just before I gave orders to get the boats out—several days before the

ship went down, I saw them very sulky at the pnmps—they refused to work them the day before the ship went down—I did not receive so flat a refusal to work the pumps that day as I did the next, the day the vessel sank—I cannot account for the mistake, so important a thing occurring that day; omitting the intermediate day altogether—the last entry was made in the log the day before the ship went down, on which day a bottle had been thrown over, and yet I omit that day from my report—I forget the date on which I drew up my protest—the Nicholas Wood arrived At Newport on the 14th; I think it was Saturday—I entered my protest at Newport—I had it formally drawn up at Liverpool in conjunction with the chief mate and the steward, who were acquainted with its contents—(The protest teas here read).

Q. I need not go over the same ground again with you; you say in Liverpool, in that formal document, that the vessel went down the same day that she was struck by the sea? A. I cannot say anything further; only that it was by mistake—there are many things that I do not mention—I did not leave out intentionally from the report that I threw the log over—there are many things that I left out and did not mention that really occurred in the ship.

Q. The log as you know is an extremely important matter on board a vessel; did you leave out of the report you wanted the men to sign, that you threw it overboard by accident, or negligently, or by design? A. I did not mention it—I suppose it was forgotten—there were many things occurred that I did not think of—I remembered it at Liverpool because I was getting the thing done in a proper manner before a notary, and I took paina of course, and recollected many things which transpired—I forgot all about the bottle on the intermediate day—I mean to say upon my oath that my omitting that there was one day's interval between the injury done to the ship and her sinking, was a mistake—it must be a mistake, for she was struck on Wednesday and foundered on Friday night—I never thought anything at Liverpool of there being a day's interval—I did not at the time I was making this protest, think how long the vessel sank after she was injured—I did not know at the time that I had made a mistake, or it would not have been there—I did not write the protest—I do not know that this is a true copy—I went in personally and gave the notary the facts in the chief mate's presence, but not in the steward's—I cannot say whether I gave the fact of the sinking of the vessel, in the chief mate's presence—he was in London on the night the protest was drawn up—I suppose the chief mate did not see the mistake any more than myself—I did not find this mistake out till Mr. Traill or some gentleman mentioned it to me at Greenwich—I was not aware till after that that the protest contained that false statement—I do not recollect whether it was before or after the men had given their evidence, that the mistake was pointed out to me—I think the first I heard of it was when I was in the witness-box, after one of the men had been examined—Hodgson was the chief mate; he is here—I have seen him since yesterday; I have been with him—we have not being staying together—I cannot say that I talked anything directly about this matter—he called at my house last evening when I was at tea—it is impossible to say the whole of the conversation—he was with me about half an hour—I had not told him to call—I will not swear that I might or might not have said, "You may as well call in the evening"—he visits me and my wife—I cannot, on my oath, answer the question whether I told him to call.

Q. On your solemn oath, after you left that box did you tell Hodgson the

mate to call upon you? A. On my oath I cannot tell whether I did or did not—I do not recollect telling him to call; I might or I might not; I will not swear—we did not talk about the questions you had put to me in relation to the omissions from the log and from the protest; I swear that—I do not know what you mean—I did not speak a word to the mate about the questions you put to me yesterday; I confess that I might have said, "Serjeant Ballantine is a very clever person, and you will have to mind what you are about"—I suppose he is something like me, not accustomed to be in a witness-box—I do not know whether I did or did not tell him the questions you put to me about the protest—I will not swear I did not—the latitude and longitude that I have given on 22d December is by account, by dead reckoning—I got it because that was the time when the wind hauled down to the S.W.—I had lost the log—that would be hardly so far south as Lisbon—I got the latitude and longitude by account carried on from day to day—I put it down in my protest from memory—the latitude on 4th January 36✗ 10' north and 13✗ west longitude I got from recollection also—that was after the sea struck the vessel—I have likewise given it when the ship went down, that is from recollection also—I forgot what latitude and longitude we were in when that fissure was made—I do not know whether this (produced) is the chart I had on 4th January—this other chart bears my own pencil marks exhibiting the course the ship took—we bore away for Cadiz—I found it marked likewise where we were at noon on Thursday, July 5—this is the place where we threw the bottle over, it is 36 1/2✗ and 10✗ 47', the nearest port or place from which would have been Cape St. Vincent—it is not very safe to get under the lee of Cape St. Vincent, and the wind was W.N.W.; it would have been highly imprudent to bear under there, there was a very heavy sea—I got at it by compass that the wind was W.N.W. at that time, but I get at it now from memory—we got within twenty miles of Cape St. Vincent, we sighted the light—that was at 4 o'clock on the morning of the 6th—I was bound to note in my protest that we saw the light of Cape St. Vincent, and I thought it would be noticed in the protest, but it was forgotten.

Q. I want to know if you forgot it in making the formal protest how you came to recollect it so as to put the very position down in the chart? A. I did that to account for the loss of the vessel in the track I was making—I have also forgotten in the protest that we made for Cape St. Mary, and have made no minute of it—I have remembered it since—it was between Cape St. Vincent and Cape St. Mary that we left the vessel, and about ten o'clock at night—during the afternoon of that day, the 6th, I was trying to get hold of Cape St. Mary—I mean that I bore for Cape St. Mary, but I was never nearer to it than the track laid down—(Pointing out the track on the chart and Capes St. Mary and St. Vincent).

Q. Just look at your own marking, you appear according to my plan to have diverged almost half-way between Capes St. Vincent and St. Mary; you appear to have taken a southerly course? A. Yes; at that time I could make for no place; I would have gone to St. Mary's if I could, but the wind headed us and I could get to no place—I was trying to get to St. Mary's, not to Cadiz—I was about 35 miles from St. Mary's at the time I began to diverge and go southerly—it was 35 miles, I think, at 1 o'clock; here is a scale—(The COURT, after looking at the chart, considered that it was 35 miles exactly)—I bore away in the first instance with the intention of searching Cadiz, and was making for Cadiz up to 1 o'clock, and at 1 headed the ship to and made for St. Mary's, or about that time—the wind was

hauling round—if we were going to St. Mary's we should not have to sail north, but east and a little southerly; instead of which we were obliged by the wind to go S.E.—it was after dinner that we hauled up the chain, just after 1 o'clock, and we finished it about 5—that was done with the intention of anchoring under Cape St. Mary if I could reach there—the ship was heading in that direction when I gave that order, and she went about 3 miles on that course and then broke off; she was making water at that time—the only object of taking up the chains was with a view of anchoring if I could get there.

Q. How came you to take the men away from the pumps and keep them away? why did not you stop that order when you found the veasel did not act? A. I could not tell that the wind would not back again—if I had not hauled the chains up ready to anchor I should have been censured by the Board of Trade—I did not take the men away from the chains at 3 o'clock and put them to the pumps, because it was impossible for me to tell, the wind might have hauled to the westward again, and if it had I should have still pushed on with the same intention.

Q. It was a very important matter to take up the chains, and an equally important matter making for St. Mary's; I ask you to tell the Jury why you never mentioned either of those matters in your protest or in the report that you drew up three days afterwards? A. Because it was forgotten—the mate gave me the log on the 6th, just before leaving the ship; it was the ordinary sized log; I think I asked the mate for it just before leaving the vessel—I took it out of his possession to have charge of it—I thought it was an important document—he had kept it all the voyage—I thought it safer to put it into my desk, which was in the cabin—I do not know whether anybody was present and saw me put it in—I cannot tell why I did not put it into my pocket or about my person—when I threw the desk into the water I said, "There, I shall not want you any more"—I do not know whether I said "There"—I do not think I said "There go all my papers;"I will swear I did not, nothing of the kind—I do not recollect saying a word about papers—it was an ordinary shaped master's desk—I did not recollect at the time that the log was in it, and if I bad there would have been a great deal to prevent my taking it out; I did not think about logs, or books, or anything else—I do not know whether I mentioned, on board of, or to the captain of the Nicholas Wood, that I had lost my log.

COURT. Q. What was the weight of the desk? A. It was not very heavy—there were other papers and memorandum-books besides the log in it, which I had had ever since I had had the ship; it was about two feet and a half wide and a foot deep, and weighed about ten or twelve pounds.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Had you ordered the crew to throw their things overboard? A. No; nor had I told them that it would be necessary, but I expected it would come to that every moment—there were not a quantity of mattrasses on board, there was one—I have been in command of a vessel before, and in the same name—Hewitt is my real name—I have commanded other vessels in the name of Nicholls some time ago—I started as Hewitt, but that matter has been arranged before the Board of Trade—I have not had my certificate suspended before.

MR. SOLICITOR GENERAL. Q. Will you explain how it was that at any time you used the name of Nicholls; how came it to pass? A. Sixteen or seventeen years ago I was bound to a little collier for five years as an apprentice, and after serving three years and nine months I deserted that vessel, and to avoid detection I assumed the name of Nicholls, which is the name

of some of my relations—I pushed my way till I was chief mate and then I became master—I passed my examination in the name of Nicholls, and obtained my certificate—at the time my certificate was suspended by Mr. Traill it was in the name of Hewitt—I changed it two years ago—I petitioned the Board of Trade and made a full confession—I felt very uneasy at what I was doing, and was glad to get it properly arranged—I passed a fresh examination for my certificate.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. I forgot to ask you, you have stated in your evidence that Cox was off duty, did not you see him about on the 6th? A. Yes; I think he was on deck a little, he might be up and down, and for two or three days before, but I swear he was not able to do any duty.

MR. SOLICITOR GENERAL. Q. You prepared the report that you wished the chief mate and the carpenter to sign on board the Nicholas Wood? A. Yes; we got to Land's-end on Saturday and Newport on Saturday following—the weather was very bad when we were first picked up, and it continued bad for two or three days—six hours afterwards she lost part of her sails, and twelve hours afterwards she was dismasted—I assisted the Captain in the navigation of the ship; his arm was broken and hung in a sling—my crew would not render any assistance—I prepared the report three or four days after I went on board the Nicholas Wood—it was two days before we got into Newport, that I asked the second mate and carpenter to sign it—the protest was prepared by a notary at Liverpool—we went from Newport to Liverpool—I did not then see the owner, Mr. Wilson—I went to Liverpool because I generally live there my owner's office is there, and I went there on purpose to see him, but he did not happen to be at home—I saw the notary himself; Mr. Smith, one of Mr. Wilson's clerks, made me known to him; I delivered the report into Mr. Woodland's hands before he proposed the protest; besides that I sat down and gave him such other things as were required; I then went away and called again a few days after, found the protest and put my signature to it—it was not exactly prepared and drawn out when I went; we had to wait a few hours for it; it was not quite finished and we waited in Mr. Woodland's office—Romanth was sick in the hospital, and the notaries took it there and read it over to him in my presence—I saw Hodgson sign it in Mr. Woodland's office, it was read over to us together, and he signed it just after me—the opening made in the bows on 1st January two feet and a half long, might be half an inch wide when the oakum was got out—we managed to keep the pumps sucking between the 1st and 4th—I had so arranged that with the ordinary way on the pumps we kept the water down—the pumps draw air at six inches, it required six inches of water to make them suck, and if there was six feet they would suck—when the pump sucks there is six inches in the bottom of the well—it was kept down to six inches between the 1st and 4th—on 1st January the wind was sometimes N.N.W. and S.W. flying about between the two, in fact forty times nearly I had to wear the ship round which way I could, to ease her—I have never been in Lisbon harbour, but as a matter of nautical knowledge I know that it is a very dangerous bar harbour, and on each side are two shoals which are covered at the tide, and to make the harbour it is necessary to go between the two shoals, and the space between is narrow—there is plenty of room if a ship is easily manageable—after we had got the serious damage on the 1st, she still answered her helm well—I could handle her and do anything I wanted with her—it was not the narrow channel at Lisbon that I speak of as dangerous

because I might have made the land, but my ship was not in a condition to beat off a lee shore—the wind was blowing N.N.W. part of the day, and as it was blowing so fearfully I could never be certain of it for an hour—sometimes it would fly into the northward, and not give the slightest warning, in two or three minutes—the danger in making for Lisbon harbour was on account of the weather, and not on account of the state of the ship—the 5th is mentioned in my report, but I have no date whatever of the day on which the ship sank—it was on a Friday—I never had the slightest doubt of the day on the week on which the very heavy sea broke upon the bows of the vessel and caused that damage; it was Wednesday, the day before the ship went down—there was a refusal on the part of the crew to work at the pumps—it was what we term a general growl—the men were all grumbling, and refused to go to the pumps, and physical force was used to make them go—they did work, but the chief mate had to rope's-end them—he thrashed them to the pumps—they worked rope's-ended on 5th, and up to noon on 6th—they worked for an hour or so after they had hauled up the chains—their last hour of working at the pumps was between 5 and 6 o'clock—they then separated from the pumps, and gave a flat refusal—it was then that I urged them to pump—it was on the 6th, the day on which the vessel sank, that I was at one time trying to make Cape St. Mary, and went about three miles—the wind was N.N.E. and the ship heading east—I was in hopes if I reached Cape St. Mary, as the wind was off the land, I might have anchored there, and perhaps stopped the leaks from the outside, and pushed on to Cadiz—it is not a place of shelter—it is a very wild open place, but I should have let down the anchor there; and if we had been under the lee of the shore I hoped to repair the vessel—this was the first time since we left home that we hauled up the chains for the purpose of being ready to let go the anchor—if the crew had worked properfy at the pumps they might have kept the vessel up for a short time longer—we had kept her np through the day, but I do not think we could have kept her up through the night, so as to leave her by daylight in the morning, because she was so settled down, and the water was coming in with great force—my desk rested on the seat that goes round the stern of the boat when it was first put in, and I was sitting on it, my wife filled up the whole space in the body of the gig—she was sitting there—I sat upon the box when I was steering, which raised me above the gunwale of the boat—my feet were on a level with the gunwale—in consequence of the way in which my wife and other persons were disposed, that was the only way in which I could sit—sometime after we left the ship the wind freshened—the sea was getting up all the time, and I found that I could not sit with safety to my own life on that raised surface—one clothes-bag was on a seat on the other side, and the sextant was a little nearer astern—they were in the way of any one sitting with safety.

MR. SERJEANT BELLANTINE. Q. Which of the crew had the rope's end used to them on 5th? A. I cannot tell, there were so many of them got it.

JURY. Q. How did the mate sit when he was steering? A. He was not in my boat—the second mate steered part of the evening when it was not blowing too hard, but I steered when the wind rose and the sea roughened—some of the men had things in the boat; I do not know what—when the wind blew N.N.W. it was off the shore—I had no interest in the freight.

THOMAS HODGSON . I sailed as chief mate on board the John Sugars, from London on 5th December, 1859—I have been at sea ten years—I have served my time—I have acted as second mate, mate, and master since the latter part of 1853—I joined the ship when she was in the docks, about five weeks

before she was ready for sea—she began to take in cargo on the day I joined—I saw the crew go on board—I noticed the ventilator holes—there were two side scuttles in the starboard—the glass of one was broken—we had them taken out, the captain and I together, and had the holes filled up, and all was made taut—the hole was seven or eight inches inside, and eleven inches outside—it was impossible to drive it out—there was also a bit of felt and a piece of deal nailed over outside—that was exactly in the same state when the ship sank, as it was when we left London—we left on 13th December, landed our pilot on the following day, and for some days had fine weather till we crossed the Bay of Biscay; but a part of the time the wind chopped round to the north-west, and about the 21st or 22d of September it changed and became bad—we had a succession of gales from that time till the ship foundered—before the bad weather had set in, the ship had been making no water at all to speak of—on New Year's Day, or somewhere thereabouts, a sea struck the bulwarks on the port side, and the bulwarks on the starboard side were washed away by the sea on 23d or 24th—on Christmas Day it blew away the topsails, and broke three panes in the sky-light in the stern—some watercame in, and the steward baled it out—on 1st January a heavy sea struck the ship—it started two planks, on the lower knee on the starboard side of the cutwater—the head rails were not disturbed anything to speak of that day, but there was a starting on the starboard side, and the ship made much more water—you could see daylight through from the inside, and every time the ship plunged, the water came rushing in with tremendous force—the captain, the carpenter, and myself were slung over the bows, and we tried to make a patchy affair of it—he tried to put a bit of flannel and boarding over it—we were hanging over by a rope—that was all that was done that day—we used to go down to look at it to see that all was light between the 1st and the 4th—it kept a little of the water out, and we were able by pumping to keep the water out with ease, as the leak was above the water-line; but the water came in when the ship pitched and plunged forward—nothing else was done between the 1st and 4th to stop the leak—on 4th, about 11 o'clock in the morning, a heavy sea struck the ship—I was on deck at the time, standing by the pumps—I felt the ship shake and tremble fore and aft, and the cook was washed out of the galley—the captain was below—he came up very shortly afterwards—the sea washed the cutwater and the figure was quite loose—it carried away the lower knee and head-rail on the starboard side—the sea struck the vessel on that side, the cutwater shook backwards and forwards—it was all adrift: all loose; the ship had completely opened forwards—all the plank timbers on the starboard side had started from the stern, as far as you could see from the inside—I could see that the leak was about three-quarters of an inch wide—this was not the same strain or opening that had happened on the 1st—planks were started on the 4th that had not started on the 1st, and it was as much as I could do to keep her above water after that—we got blankets over the bows, but they were washed away as fast as we got them there—the sea was too high, and the ship was knocking about too much: it was impossible—somebody was slung over the bows to fasten the blankets—I took my turn, and Captain Hewitt was over too; we found we could not really stop the leak from the outside, the sea was too high—from that time one pump was constantly kept going, and at the end of every watch both pumps—they continued to work the pumps between the 1st and the 4th—they were constantly going after this happened—we left the ship on Friday; it was two days before that, Wednesday, that the great blow

struck the ship—the pumps were kept constantly going on the day before the ship sank—we had a difficulty all along to keep the men to the pumps; it was as much as I could do to get them out of the forecastle, out of their berths—they had very hard work some days, they were fatigued and exhausted; but previous to the 5th they only wanted pressing to the pumps; but the day before the ship went down I had to lug them out of the forecastle and drive them to the pumps—I talked to them quietly in the first place, and found that did not take effect, so I was obliged to hammer them to the pumps—I mean that I rope's-ended them to the pumps—I recollect very well the day on which the ship was left—it was the 6th, Friday—it was my watch from 8 to 12 that morning, the forenoon watch; and the morning watch was the second mate's—I was not seeing what was going on from 4 to 8—my watch was from 8 to noon, and during that time the pumps were kept continually going, and we had two meals in one, breakfast and dinner—7 o'clock was the breakfast hour of the watch below, and 8 o'clock the other; but they did not breakfast at all that morning—the first meal that we had was between 11 and 12, breakfast and dinner in one, and after that they started to get the anchors over the bows and the chains on deck, for the purpose of being ready to let go an anchor if necessary—all hands were employed in hauling up the chains—it took two hours and a half or three hours, after which they pumped about an hour, and then turned round and said that they would pump no longer—they had sores on their hands and legs—they said that they were really exhausted, and could not keep the ship afloat, and that the land was in sight—the captain tried to get them to keep her afloat till we arrived at Cadis—a man named Gorth was spokesman for all the rest, and they began showing their hands and legs, and saying they would pump no longer, and there was no more pumping—we kept the carpenter continually employed inside for an hour before the ship went down, poking oakum into the hole—Stovell, the cook, is an old man—I think he has been forty or fifty years at sea—the captain spoke to him in the presence of the crew as the oldest man, and he replied, "You are the captain of the ship, you ought to know how to act better than I do"—at 5 o'clock on the 6th there was a tremendous sea, but yery little wind—it had gradually died away to a calm, but still there was a considerable sea—after they refused to pump, the captain gave orders to get the boats ready—they began to get them ready at half-past 4 or 5 o'clock—there were three boats, but one was stove—the long boat and the gig were got out—I went in the longboat—it was about three-quarters of an hour before the ship went down that we got into the boats—we stopped by till we saw the ship go down, which was while we were getting a sail rigged in the long-boat—we had not got too far to see it—we were 200 yards from it—we were picked up next morning by the Nicholas Wood, between 11 and 12 in the forenoon—the wind was then gradually increasing—there was a cross sea on, with a westerly gale—it was not a worse sea than when we got into the boat, but a different sea, a cross sea—there were two winds meeting—the water came into the boat I was in, and we had to keep two buckets continually baling it out—we were 30 or 35 miles from land in the morning—if we had not been picked up there would not have been a soul left three or four hours afterwards, with that sea, to tell the tale—we must have gone to the bottom, no doubt—on the 5th I threw a bottle into the sea, with the latitude and longitude, as far as I could tell by dead reckoning, and stated what our prospects were—I never expected, at that time, to see the land again, but did not give up all hopes—it was my business to keep the log—I gave it to the captain on the 6th,

as we were on the point of leaving the ship, and he put it into his desk—when on board the Nicholas Wood, the captain prepared a paper, which he called a report—he and I went forward with it, and met the second mate on the port side—he said, "Second mate, will you sign this paper?—he said, "Yes; supposing you give me two months' pay I will scream" or "sign," or something in the language of his own country—(A juryman stated that the word was "schriven")—the captain said, "Carpenter, will you sign it?—he said, "Yes, supposing you give me two months' pay"—the captain said, "Will the crew sign it?"—he said, "Yes, if you give them two months' pay"—the captain said that he would put them in gaol as soon as they got to Newport—the carpenter replied, "There are ten of us and none of you, and what you speak is for nothing"—on the day after the bad weather began I was on the port side, and heard somebody say, "The boy Cox is dead"—I said, "Carry him aft"—I went aft, and found him in his berth, and it was as much as Captain Hewitt and his wife could do to bring him to life again—he was in a fit—he was in his berth till the ship Bank, and knew nothing of what transpired on board—he was not able to leave his berth—the ventilating places were left as they were when the ship went down—there was no hole bored or made with an axe in any part of the vessel to my knowledge before the ship went down—nothing of the kind—I did not give orders to the carpenter, or anybody else, to chop a hole or make a hole in any part of the vessel, only on the 5th, for the purpose of getting at the leak on the outside—I do not know of any hole being made or tried to be made in any part of the ship—I did not say anything to anybody on board about a hole or holes in any part of the ship.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Do you represent to the jury that Cox was confined to his bed on the 5th and 6th? A. Yes, I do—I saw him the day before the ship went down—I cannot swear whether he was about on the 6th, he might be—I do not think the captain of the Nicholas Wood was present when this statement was made out—the master and I made it out together—I did not say that the vessel went down on the 5th, I said the 6th; there is some mistake in the protest—I mentioned that mistake about a fortnight ago or upwards of that—Capt. Hewitt first drew my attention to this mistake about a month or three weeks ago perhaps—it is a mistake, and that is all I know of it—the protest was read over to me in Liverpool, and the particulars were all correct—I did not take notice of dates in particular—the protest is the document upon which all the insurances are paid, and is a most important document—I did not make the protest; I heard it read over, and it was all correct—the master and I made the report out on board the Nicholas Wood but I did not notice that—I had a conversation with the captain last night—he told me that you had pointed out that mistake, but I knew it three weeks ago—I did not take more notice of it last night than I did three weeks ago—I saw the captain at his house; he invited me there yesterday, on the way home from here—we did not walk home together—it was just after we left the Court—he did not come up to me—I went up to him, and then he asked me to come in the evening—I did not spend the evening there—I was there half an hour—we did not talk the examination over; little or nothing, only about some mistake being made in the protest—I felt pretty sure that the vessel could not get to Adelaide after the sea struck her on the 4th—I felt sure she could not reach her port, and tried to run for Cadiz.

JURY. Q. You say you took the log, and left it in the captain's cabin; did you see the captain put it in his desk? A. I will not swear to that.

COURT. Q. Are you «ure you gave it to him. A. Yes; it was about the length of this paper, half as broad again, and about the thickness of this—I had things on board—I had uot insured them—I lost everything with the exception of a few little things—the prisoners joined, the ship on the day after she signed articles—she was lying in the basin at the time—that was about six weeks after the ventilator holes were filled up.

JAMES BARRETT . I am a stevedore—I was employed to stow the cargo of the ship John Sugars—there was no bulk-head dividing the forecastle from the hold; the cargo itself made the bulk-head—the first cargo, that came was sixty tons of wire, which was put in the bottom of the hold; and fifty tons of blacksmiths, coal, which consisted of dust, was stowed with the, wire to keep the weight at the bottom—the ventilators were filled up, what they call the scuttles of the ship; I saw the one on the port side filled up, the one on the starboard side was filled up when I was not there, but the one on the port side I saw done and assisted in ramming the plug in—it was a bit of an old spar and was tapered off at one end—on the outside was a piece of felt, and outside that was a board again—I saw it wedged from the inside, and it was as strong as any part of the ship—no foroe could have forced it out—you might have pushed it in, but from inwards to outwards you could not have strength sufficient, because the inside was so much larger that the out, therefore the plank would have had to give way.

RINALDO ROMANTH . I am a native of the Dutch country—I was steward on board the John Sugars—the weather was middling fine going down Channel; it changed in the Bay of Biscay—we had very bad weather indeed about Christmas Day—I remember it because I could not carry out my orders; I had to make pudding for the men, but we had such heavy gales that I could not make it, and the men had beef and potatoes for their Christmas dinner—during that weather a great deal of the bulwarks were carried away at different times—the cook was washed out of his galley—I cannot say whether that was before the new year—it was about Christmas—I recollect some water casks being washed away from the lashings and away from the deck, and some harness casks were smashed—we shipped a very heavy on the starboard quarter, which smashed the sky-light glass in the cabin, and a great deal of water came down, which we bailed out with buckets, which were passed up on deck by the youngster, named George Wager—on Wednesday, the 4th, a very heavy sea struck the ship right forwards—I was in my pantry, and the captain was in the cabin with his wife—he came on deck and said, "My God, what is that?" and the vessel shook a great deal from the blows—I looked over the bows, and saw that the out-water was jiggling along, nearly washed away, and a portion of the rails were washed away—the lower knee on the starboard side had gone entirely—after that I was down in the forecastle, and noticed that the sides of the stem opened a great deal up and down, I-could see the light through—I had a lamp at the time, and the sea put it out—I saw the captain, the chief mate, and the carpenter that day out over the bows, and saw blankets got to stop the leak with; one came from my bed, a very large one—I gave it, and Mrs. Hewitt gave part of another blanket; besides that blanket and half blanket, a sail was brought out of the cabin, which was put over the bows, and I think it remained there twelve hours—the oakum was under my charge—I gave a great deal out several times during the last two days to the carpenter Lehmann—I also recollect the carpenter being hung over the bows on New Year's Day, trying to stop the leak—from the time this very bad

weather set in, the pumps were continually going—they could not be left on the day we left the ship—on Friday we were pumping till dinner time, the captain never stripped, and went to bed; he could not during the gales—I recollect the chains being hauled up, after that I saw the men go to the pumps for awhile—I was there at the time they left the pumps—they pumped for an hour, and then said they would pump no longer, because their hands were sore and they were tired and weary—the captain entreated them to keep pumping a little longer, as they were not far from Cadiz—they said they could not, as their hands were very weary, and it was very wearing, therefore they left off pumping the ship—the captain addressed the cook, he being the oldest man in the ship—the men were not willing generally to go to the pumps—the chief mate had to drive them and shove them, and take the end of the rope and drive them to the pumps—all the topsails were set on 6th January—on that day the carpenter appeared to be tipsy—all I had given him that morning was a wine glass of rum and water—we had no bottles of brandy on board—we had brandy in small casks—I do not know whether there were any spirits among the cargo—I saw the chief mate order the carpenter out of his bunk that day—I went into the second cabin on the day we left the ship, the 6th, and saw the second mate packing up his clothes—I told him that the captain had given me orders to tell him to set the foresail, and asked him what he was doing, he said, "That is my business"—I went up and told the master, who went up on deck after him—that was between half-past 4 and 5 in the morning—I left the ship in a small boat, the gig, with the captain—I recollect a sail being put up to it, or a bit of canvas—I kept it up for a few minutes, but the wind blew it down very soon—I saw the captain's desk in the boat—the second mate was sitting on it when he was steering—the men did not sit on seats, they were in the bottom of the boat—after the second mate came away from the helm, the captain took it and sat on the box, and the second mate lay down in the boat covered with some oil skins—I recollect a steamer passing us—we tried to signal to her, but she took no notice at all, and all hopes were gone—I recollect the captain saying something to his wife, and very beautifully too—he put his hand on her shoulder and said, "Mary, it is a case with us"—she said, "Well, James, we both shall go together, and God shall provide for Harry," who, I suppose, was a son—I saw the desk thrown over—that was after tho steamer passed, and after the captain had spoken in that way to his wife—when the desk was thrown over, the captain sat lower in the boat, and was a little more comfortable—the sea and the wind freshened in the night—the sea was getting very rough at the time the box was thrown over—I noticed the second mate with two bottles in the boat—they looked something like brandy—we had not any such bottles in the usual stores of the ship—I was steward—on the night after we got on board the Nicholas Wood, she suffered a great deal from the wind—she was dismasted, and the wind kept rising till it blew a gale the next night—it was a very good thing she did pick us up, else we should not have been here now—the boy, Cox, was very sick indeed—he fell in my hands in the cook's galley—I do not exactly recollect the day, but it had just commenced to blow a little—it seemed to me that he fell in fits—I carried him down to his berth—a youngster named George Wager assisted me—he remained ill about ten or twelve days—I stripped him; and the captain and I put my own flannels on him—from that time until the time he left the ship, he was not able to attend to his duties—I never heard of any holes being bored in the ship, before I came ashore—Cox could not go on deck for any purpose.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Do you mean to say that Cox did not go on deck on the 6th? A. When we left the ship he did, but not before—I know that because I was on deck; not all day, but passing along—Cox was down in the cabin in the afternoon—I signed this protest—I had to make a declaration to the truth of its contents—this is the truth that I signed—it was read over to me before I signed it—I am now living in London, at 2, Gravel-lane, with Mr. willis, a boarding master—I believe he is a witness here, I do not know—the captain lives in Queenstreet, Commercial-road—I did not see his last night, after I left the court—the boat's crew made no observation when the captain said that it was case, and that his wife and ourselves were all going to the bottom; and I made no observation—when the captain threw over the desk, he said, "I sha'n't want you any more"—I heard no papers named.

MR. SOLICITOR GENERAL. Q. Do you know whether the captain threw overboard, from the boat, anything besides the desk? A. Yes; a bag with a few clothes in it, and he said, "I sha'n't want you any more"—he pushed both of them overboard, and said, I sha'n't want you any more"—he also threw over the sextant, and said, "I sha'n't want you any more"—he said that three times over.

JOHN STOVELL . I was cook on board the John Sugars—I recollect our leaving the vessel, and the vessel going down—I left in the long boat with the mate—we had fineish weather at first after leaving London, but about; three or four days afterwards, to the best of my recollection, the weather began to be bad—it was very severe on Christmas Day—I had orders to make puddings for the men's dinners on Christmas Day—I made them, but could not get them cooked—the bad weather would not allow me to cook them—being such bad weather the water put the fire out—I observed that the vessel was making water, between Christmas Day and New Year's day—I found it leaky when I went into the coal-hole—that is the lower forecastle—I went down the ladder to get two buckets of coal—I got one filled, and on filling the other, I found that water came on the top of my head—I rose, and said, "My life, where does the water come from?"—I could not see, and stooped down again, to fill the second bucket, and with that, a sea came and cotched me right in the face—it was very dark, and I could not discover where the water came from—I lowered myself and Baw daylight appearing just forward—I stood a little while and as she raised I saw daylight through and Baw the strains where two planks had started—I cannot tell you what day of the month that was, but I think it was on 1st January—I discovered this as she ris—she plunged, and as she ris I saw it—I got my two buckets of coal filled, came on deck, put the coal in the galley, and looked about to see if I could see the carpenter—I did not see him for an hour, and then I said, "Carpenter, do you know this vessel is making water?"—he said, "No"—I said, "Why don't you see about it; we shall all go to pot"—I saw a sail and a flannel brought forwards to stop the leak, and the captain and carpenter went over the bows, and I saw the things lowered to stop the leak—the pumps had been going that morning—I cannot say whether they were kept going after that, because I was in my galley attending to my duty—it was on 6th January that we left the vessel, and Bhe went down—a day or two before that, or two or three days at the furthest, a heavy sea struck the vessel—I was then getting fresh water to make tea for the men, and was about amidships, just taking the water from the second mate, and the sea struck me and washed me from the starboard »ide to the larboard side, bucket and all—after that I think orders were

given to get the chains up—that was the day we left the ship—I had no opportunity of seeing what mischief happened to the cutwater from that blow—I did not look over—I do not say anything about the knees or the cutwater or the hand-rail—I was pretty busy getting the meals ready for the men—they had breakfast and dinner together about 11 o'clock the day the ship was lost—I did put water on for tea before we left the ship, but could not get it to boil—I could not keep the fire up—the men were at the pumps at the time that I went to make the fire to make the officers' coffee, and they never ceased till I called the mate to let them get their meals as I could not get the dinners on, and at 11 o'clock they had breakfast and dinner together—there was no pumping after that, to my recollection—that was after they had hauled up the chains—I cannot say how long it took—I cannot say whether there was any pumping after the chains had been got up—I remember Captain Hewitt speaking about the chains, and they were all called aft—that was after the chains were got up—I was called aft with the rest, and the captain said, "Now, my men, can you endeavour to pump and keep the ship free: and can you endeavour to get the ship to Cadiz?"—they said that they could not; they were entirely worn out with pumping night and day—they did not go to the pumps—when they were called aft, and the captain said to me, in the hearing of the crew, "Well, cook, you are the oldest man that is on board the ship, what do you say?"—I said, "I have nothing more to say, Sir; you are master of the vessel; if you think the ship will not take us to land, we had better man the boats and see if we can get to land"—the captain said nothing more after I made that observation—I heard orders given to get the boats out—I cannot tell what sort of wind there was when we got over the ship's side, because I did not look at the compass, but it was very rough—there was a great sea on—I was in the long boat, and was picked up by the Nicholas Wood—the wind came ahead, to my recollection, between 11 and 12 at night, and it was very rough—we could not lay our courcse according to the directions the captain gave us, which was north and south—we could not keep that course—the tide was against us; the sea was rough; and the wind was against us, and I told the captain that we could not arrive at the land—we made no progress at all—I took some of my clothes into the boat, but the captain told us to take no chests or anything of that kind—the boat was quite loaded—she had two leaks in her, one abaft and one fore—we took a cask of water in her.

Cros-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. After the chains had been hauled up, did the captain ask you whether you could keep up the vessel, and did you say that if the men pumped they could keep the vessel up? A. He asked them if they could hold out to keep the ship free until he got to Cadiz—he called them all aft, and the prisoners were all present—he said nothing about St Mary's; it was not mentioned in my presence—the men had not to be forced to the pumps at any time to my knowledge, but my duty called me to the galley—I never heard complaints of the men refusing to work—as far as I heard and saw, they were willing to do the things that they were ordered—the boy Cox was taken ill, I cannot give you the exact day—I think, on the day the ship foundered, he was at the second mate's dinner, but I cannot say exactly, I believe he was—I had not known him before this voyage—I had never seen him before—he seemed to be a very willing boy as far as I could judge—when I asked him to bring me a bit of coal, before he was sick, ho used to bring it—that was all I required of him.

MR. SOLICITOR GENERAL. Q. I suppose your berth was in the same part of the ship as the rest of the crew? A. Yes, in the forecastle—I do all my business in the galley in the day—that is where I am employed in cooking—it is on deck, just abaft the foremast—it is not near midships—it is not a cabin on deck at all, it is open to the weather—it is like this box, only it is covered in—it has a roof—thig is the galley (Pointing it out on the model)—I cannot be there all day—I must come out to get a breath of air—I cannot stop in there all day long—I am cooking in the galley a good part of each day—when breakfast is over I had to get about the dinner, and when dinner is over and the things washed up, I had to get about the supper.

GEORGE WAGER . I shipped on board the John Sugars, in London, I cannot say exactly when it was—the weather set in bad about six or seven days after we left London—we had very bad weather on Christmas Day—a quantity of water broke the skylight at that time, and came into the cabin; the steward baled it out—we had very bad weather on New Year's Day, the spars and casks on deck were washed adrift, and the ship was making water—on the Wednesday I believe before we left the ship or about three days before we left a heavy sea struck us—I was on the main deck and saw the captain running forwards—I saw a blanket and a sail brought by the second mate and a man named Graff—I did not see where the sail was put, but I saw it go over the bows—I was in the second mate's watch—the pumps were going after that—the pumps were going up to dinner time on the day we left the ship—we had breakfast and dinner together, and after that we got the chains up and then went to the pumps again, and kept pumping for about an hour and a half, I cannot say exactly—we stopped because the crew said they would pump no longer—after that the captain called the men aft, and I heard him ask them a few questions—he asked them if they were going to pump any more; they aaid no, that their hands were some, and their arms and legs, and they could pump no more—he begged of them many times to pump, and they said they could not pump any more—he said something to the cook, but I did not hear what—they said there was not much wind, though there was a heavy sea, and that it was a good time to get the boats out, as there was a chance of saving their lives—the captain then ordered the boats—I went in the long boat—we had bad weather after we got in, the wind was freshening during the night—Cox and I were apprentices together—he was very ill some days before he left the ship—he did no duty up to the time we left—he crawled on deck at times, but he was not fit—I attended on him, and brought him a bucket for his natural purposes—we got on board the Nicholas Wood, and after that I heard the second mate and another little chap, who has gone to sea, talking about the money—they said they wanted two months' pay, and if they did not gat it, they would stick a knife through the master—it was the second mate who said that—he is a foreign sailor who has gone to sea—since I have come to England I met the prisoner Cox, in February, in Ratclifte Highway—he told me the second mate wanted to see me, and in the afternoon Cox oame down to me again and said that the second mate wanted to see me, and I was to go up to his boarding-house—I went there and saw the seoond mate—he asked me which side I was going, I told him I did not know, I had nothing to do with it—he asked me who paid my passage to come to London—I said, "I did,"—he was talking about the Court—he said he had no wish to do anything, he had plenty to eat, plenty of sleep, plenty to drink, and plenty to play at skittles; and afterwards it would come fine weather, and then he should go to sea, and he should get well paid for his trouble for

going against the master—I do not think anything else was said about any claim he had—he said it was German fashion to have two months' pay when they left the ship; and told me that if he liked he could make the master pay very dear for throwing my shoes overboard—my shoes were thrown overboard because they had nails in them—they were cutting the deck—when we were at Newport, I went with Cox to a chemist; he was still suffering—before we left the ship the captain told them to hoist the ensign up for fear they should go to the bottom, and if anybody was passing by, there would be a chance of saving us—that was one or two days before we left the ship—I knew nothing of holes being bored in the ship—I heard no orders given by the captain or chief mate to bore holes in the ship—I lived in the fore cabin, not in the forecastle, the fore cabin is aft.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Did you ever hear that holes had been bored in the ship? A. No; I did not hear the crew talking about it, but I heard them all swear against the master if he did not give them two months' pay; they said that they would stick the knife through him—I do not know what they said that they would swear against him—they did not accuse him of doing anything, he never done nothing.

JOHN KLAUSEN . I am a Norwegian; I speak English very little—I went to sea on board the John Sugars—I recollect the day we left the ship; I was pumping that day all the time till we went to dinner at 12 o'clock—I recollect the chains being hauled up; after that the men went to the chains again—I was not there when they left off pumping, I was in bed sick—I left the ship in the mate's boat—I was sick all the time till the last day or two before we left the ship.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLATINE. Q. Did you ever hear that holes had been made in the ship? A. Yes; there was a hole down below—I never heard the crew say that the captain had made any holes till we were in London.

MR. SOLICITOR GENERAL. Q. You did hear them talk of the holes, did not you? A. Yes.

MARY HEWITT . I am the wife of Captain Hewitt—I went with him on board the John Sugars from London, in December last—I remained on board till the boats were put over, and we all left on 6th January—it was very bad weather on Christmas Day—I recollect that because we were disappointed in our dinner—we had a dinner of potatoes and beef; we had no plum-pudding; that was owing to the weather—I do not recollect the day of the week or the day of the month on which we left the vessel—two or three days before we left my husband was down in the cabin with me, and a sea broke upon the ship—I was very frightened, the ship shook, and I felt it very much—my husband said, "My God, we are struck,"and went up on deck immediately—soon after that I saw the carpenter Lehmann coming down to get some grog; his clothes were dripping wet—I did not ask him how he got wet, and he did not tell me—after he had gone away, Beschott, the second mate, came down for grog; his clothes were also wet—I did not speak to him; he got some grog—the first mate came down afterwards; his clothes were wet also—I was not on deck to see what the men were doing over the bows, but the carpenter told me that the ship had opened, aud they were trying to stop the leak—on the day we left the ship I was called from what I was doing, to give a half blanket to the steward for the purpose of stopping the leak—although I was not on deck on the day we left the ship, only for a few minutes in the morning, I could hear the pumps going—it was about 10 o'clock, but I could not say—I was not on deck in the afternoon

—before we left the ship I did not see the men hauling the chains up; I was in the cabin—I heard loud talking in the course of the evening, ana my husband was talking as well as the rest, but I could not hear✗—shortly before I left the ship, I saw the carpenter Lehmann; he was rather intoxicated—I went in the gig with my husband—the second mate steered first during the night, and my husband steered afterwards—I sat in the stern sheets, in the body of the boat.

COURT. Q. Do you recollect seeing your husband throw anything away from the boat? A. He threw his desk overboard—that was in the morning about an hour after the steam-boat passed us—he also threw over a bag of clothes and the sextant, all about the same time, but not all at once—he said, "I think I shall not want them any more,"and I thought bo too—about that time he laid his hand on my shoulder, and said that it was as; I said that we should both go together.

MR. SOLICITOR GENERAL. Q. Was there any allusion made to the child? A. Yes; I said, "The Lord will remember Harry."

HENRY HOUGHTON . I was first mate of the Nicholas Wood—I recollect the time when we picked up the boats of the John Sugars—there was a strong breeze from the north-east, and a revolutionary sea; a confused sea—they were all wet when they came in from the boats—I am not aware that there was anything dry in either boat—we had a heavy gale the day after, and we got dismasted, and the sails carried away—we applied to the crew of the John Sugars, and to all of the prisoners, to give us help, and they all said that they were incapable of performing duty—I found that one or two were incapable, but they said they would not do it—they came on board the quarter-deck at Newport, and asked the captain for two months' pay—the captain said that he was a poor man, and could not do anything himself, but he was going to Liverpool, and would ask the owners if they could do anything for them.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. When they asked for two months' wages, it was not Cox who asked; it was one of the Germans, was it not? A. One of the Germans—he did not say that the vessel might have been got into port, nor did I hear it from any one at Newport—I did not hear on board the Nicholas Wood from any of these people that the vessel might be got into port; I am quite sure of that—I had much conversation with Captain Hewitt, he did not tell me he had lost his log or thrown it overboard—it was moderate weather the day before we picked them up, and the day before there were strong gales—on the Thursday there was a strong gale, but the weather was moderate on Friday, and there was a very heavy sea—our vessel was bound for Newport from Carthagena, a place called Poor Man's Bay, a few miles from Carthagena—there is a great traffic along that course; vessels may be expected passing and repassing constantly—I have been in the port of Lisbon; it is not an easy port to get into, there is a very dangerous bar unless people are acquainted with it—there are pilots at Lisbon, but not at all times of the day—the wind was N.E. and N.N.E. on the Friday, as far as my memory serves me.

THOMAS HOUGHTON . I was a seaman on board the Nicholas Wood in January last—I remember the long-boat, and afterwards the gig of the John Sugars, being picked up; that was on the forenoon of Saturday—the sea was rough at that time—the men wero wet, and more dead than alive—the crew were taken on board, and remained with us till we got to Newport—the boy Cox lived down with us in the forecastle in consequence of his leg being so bad; he was not in a fit state to work—he said that the captain of

the John Sugars bad called all the men aft, and asked them whether they intended to pump; that they refused in cousequence of their arms and legs being so sore, and tired with pumping—he said that he had been ill, but did not say for how long; his legs were bad with sores—we took him down in the forecastle and bound them up with rags—when he got to Newport he went and got some medicine from the doctor—he was not fit for work—we continued to have bad weather after we took these men on board—I went down in the forecastle and asked the men belonging to the John Sugars, who were there, if they could lend us a hand; they said that they could not because their arms and hands were so sore with pumping—I was at Greenwich on the inquiry with young Phillips from Newport, and saw the carpenter, who said that if it had not been for the second mate he should never have come up to London, and he wished he was out of it.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Who were the men you heard saying anything about money? A. A man who we used to call Charley, one of the men who used to help us on board; he said that the men expected some money when they got to Newport, and talked about receiving a month's pay—they said on board the Nicholas Wood that there was something they were going to do, but what it was they would not say—it was Charley said that; not one of the prisoners—I did not hear what it was in relation to—it was nothing about the loss of the vessel—I believe Charley has gone up the Mediterranean to Gibraltar.

MR. SOLICITOR GENERAL. Q. Is that the man who is called Charley Graff? A. I do not know, but he used to speak through his nose—it was English he spoke through his nose, not German—he used not to like to say much to the rest—the others would not help us and he would—they were not by when he spoke—we used to allow him to come down into the forecastle, because he helped us and the others would not.

THOMAS HARVEY . I was one of the crew of the Nicholas Wood—I recollect the time wheu the carpenter Lehmann, and some of the crew were present, something being said as to what had happened to the ship—they said that a heavy sea struck the bows and the timbers opened, and the carpenter told me he was several times over the bows trying to stop the leak, and very nearly lost his life—I saw the second mate and another man named Graff; he told me that he wanted money and money he would have somewhere—the men appeared very sickly when they came on board as regards their strength—I know that Graff has taken ship.

COURT. Q. Was it the carpenter only that you heard say this? A. I heard the carpenter say he was over the bows—the boy Cox was in the forecastle, and he was the first one they told us.

EDWARD PHILLIPS . I live at Newport, in Monmouthshire—I keep a boarding house for American ships—my son, who has the same name, lives next door to me, and keeps a public-house—I heard of the crew of the ship John Sugars being landed at Newport on 14th January, and saw those four prisoners who are furthest from me in my son's tap-room—I also saw Charley Graff—I asked them if they had much pumping work; they said they had plenty—the others inquired of Charley what it was, and he said, "Plenty of pumping, plenty of pumping"—charley did not interpret fbr all—the second mate and the carpenter answered for themselves—charley spoke for the others—on the day following, I saw the second mate and the carpenter at my son's house—the second mate asked me if I had seen the captain—I said, "No"—he said, "I will do my worst for him"—I said, "What is that for?"—he said, "Because he did not give me any money"—I

said, "Maybe he bad none for himself"—"Then," said he, "I shall swear for them that give me the most money"—I attended before Mr. Traill at Greenwich, but was not called—I was there ready to be examined—I had not any talk with the carpenter there—I cannot say'whether there was a man named Carn Smith there, one of the crew of the John Sugars, but three of them went away in a vessel called the Trident, and two others in a smallish vessel called the Betty.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. I suppose you were. exceedingly shocked when you heard a man say that he would swear for anybody who would give him the most money? A. I did not take much notice: I walked away—I certainly had an idea that it was not the right thing—they found me out because I was in the house—they brought me here because I was in Mr. Knapp's office in Newport, and heard them relating about the trial of the John Sugars—they asked if I had pot any. one boarding with me—I said, "No"—Mr. Knapp is a shipbroker—he has nothing to do with the case—I have never been in trouble—when this matter was inquired about, two of the men were engaged op board a vessel going to the West Indies—they were then in London, and I suppose they gave evidence at Greenwich—I don't know their names; it was neither the second mate nor the carpenter, nor Cox—the others were not looking for a vessel—the second mate said that he did not want a vessel; he wanted money—that was on Sunday, the 15th.

EDWARD PHILLIPS, JUN . I am a son of the last witness, and keep the Red Lion Inn at Newport—I recollect the Nicholas'Wood coming in up 11th January, and saw the crew going about—the carpenter was one of them, and the second mate, and Charles De Graff and two or three more; but of the prisoners I can only point out the chief mate and the carpenter—I heard the carpenter make mention that he had no money for himself—on the next day, Sunday, the 15th, I had a conversation with the second mate in the tap-room—he said that he would make it very bad for the captain if the captain did not send him some money, as it was his country's fashion to give two months' pay when the ship was lost—I had not asked him any question before he said that—I told him it was not English fashion—I did not hear anything said about pumping—I recollect a telegram coming from London—I have not got it—all the men were then in the house except the carpenter—I told them that there was a telegraphio message to detain the crew of the John Sugars—they asked me if I would go and see who it was from, and the one who gave them the most money they would swear for—I do not recollect who it was that said that—I did not see the carpenter there—Graff was there—he spoke—he is one of those who said what I have just said—he did not exactly take any active part in speaking when the crew were present—I recollect before Lehmann and Poll and Hanschildt left for London by train, hearing the carpenter say to them, "Mind and swear to the same thing, and stick to it"—I was X Greenwich—I had a few words' conversation with the carpenter there—I cannot say whether it was after he had been examined or before, but I believe it was on the second day of the inquiry—he said that he wished he was out of it, and if it had not been for the second mate he would never have come to London—the second mate said nothing to me.

JOHN WILLIS . I live in King-street, New Gravel-lane, Shadwell, and am a sailor on board colliers—I know the boy Wager, who has been examined—I knew him before he went from London in the John Sugars in December—some time after he came home to Newport he came to my house

at Shad well to see me—that was on 12th Feb.—he said that he came up on his own account, and had not come to appear at Greenwich—he stopped at my house some time, and the second day he was there Cox came, and said he was sent by the second mate—he did not see Wager the first time—he saw him afterwards, and I accompanied them both to a boarding-house at Shadwell, where we saw the second mate, who said, "It is German fashion to give two months' pay; but never mind, we will be paid better than that"—he did not say that anything was going on in Greenwich at that time, but he said that they were paid better; they had plenty to eat and drink, and plenty of sleep, and went up to the Court about once a week, and spoke a little, and that was all they had to do, and by and bye there would come fine weather, and then they should go to sea—he said to Wager, "You recollect the captain heaving your shoes overboard?"—Wager said "Yes"—the second mate said, "We will make him pay dear for that by and bye."

WILLIAM DERMOT . I am what is called a wreck agent, employed by the underwriters to make inquiries—I was at the Gloucester Railway Station, on my way down to Newport, before this inquiry took place at Greenwich—I saw the carpenter Lehmann at the station—I think it was the 18th or 19th of January, but am not sure which day—he introduced himself to me as the carpenter—he had a macintosh on—I should take the second prisoner to be Lehmann—he said he was the carpenter of the John Sugars—there were two foreigners with him—I asked them, after I had spoken to them, to describe to me the circumstances under which this vessel was lost—the conversation was generally or altogether with the carpenter—he ascribed the loss to bad weather, and said that the ship sprung a leak, and described to me how the crew were intensely fatigued at the pumps; that their hands were perfectly Bore, and that he had never had such bad weather since he was at sea; that he was over the bows of the ship, as the wood ends had started, and, as for as I recollect, he was, off and on, over the bows for two hours; that they put oakum and put some sails over where the wood had started—he seemed to have been in great risk while he was over the bows—I said "I think it very strange how the wood ends could start in that way"—he appealed to the two others who were with him; the two furthest prisoners, I think—I particularly noticed one of them, from the form of his eyes, at the station—one was German, and this one was English—the other could speak a little English, and he confirmed him that the wood ends had started—he said nothing about a hole in the ship—I suggested to him that such things did occur, and he said that nothing of that sort had happened.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Nothing of what sort? A. Making holes in the ship—I suggested that such things might be; that vessels had been lost in that way, and I wanted to know what was true—I was not instructed to inquire of these men, but my business led me to do so—this was not a voluntary thing, looking for a job; I did it merely because we know such things do happen, and I wanted to satisfy myself—it was very likely that these men might speak the truth at the Gloucester Railway Station—if I had ascertained anything wrong I should have reported it to the underwriters—there are not a vast number of cases, within my knowledge, of ships having been scuttled out at sea, but I have had to deal with them—if a vessel gets disabled at sea, and is obliged to put into port to repair, it all depends upon whether she is a new or an old ship, whether the owner has to pay one-third of the repairs or not—I think that is so after the first voyage—there is a deduction of thirds; and all expenses, including wages, while the vessel is in port, falls upon the owner.

ROBERT ORD . I have been for some time clerk to Peeke and Co. ship-brokers to the John Sugars—it was part of my duty to obtain a crew for her—I took the usual steps to do so, and this crew were obtained in the usual way.

MATHEW ISAAC WILSON . I am a ship owner in business at Liverpool, and have been so for some time past—I have had a considerable number of ships; the number varies—for the last two or three years I have had somewhere about 40—I was the owner of the John Sugars—I purchased her, I think, in October—this (producecd) is the bill of sale under which I took her—it is dated 31st October, 1859—the purchase money was 2,150l.—I paid that amount for her—this was the first voyage she had gone after my purchase—between the time of my purchase, and the time of her leaving London, I had made various disbursements and incurred various expenses in addition to the purchase-money—certain disbursements had been made for the ship by my brokers, Seymour, Peacock, and Co., to the amount of 275l., and by myself to the amount of 235l. 13s. 9d—besides that, I tent up from my stores in Liverpool some sails for the use of the ship, the value of which I estimate at about 90l.—there were two bales of canvass sent from my stores besides, value about 30l.—I effected insurances on the ship to the amount of 3,000l., the expenses of which were 139l. 8s.—there was also rather more than 30l. which I put in the course of business, to the debit of the ship for calculation in the event of a loss—I took care to insure such an amount as would cover the expenses of the ship, and the expense of the insurances—these sums added up come to 2,900l. 8s. 4d.—I have the vouchers, if necessary, to support that statement—I effected 3,000l. insurances on the ship, and 2,000l. on the freight—there were two policies in London, one in Glasgow, and one in Aberdeen, to cover the 3,000l.—the Aberdeen is paid, and a portion of the London one is paid, and another portion is to be paid this week—one is a time policy, for twelve months—a portion of that has been settled, 300l.—it is a thousand pound policy—we were told that it would be paid, but two of the underwriters have failed—we have been paid 300l.—I have three policies in Court out of four—two of them were on the ship, the other two are in Glasgow—they have not been paid; nothing has been paid upon them—one is in the name of M'Kearn, and the other of Wingate and Sons; they are the brokers—this (produced) is the policy on the freight, 2,000l.—I had a manifest rendered to me by my broker, showing me the amount of freight that was insured—this is it; it is to the amount of 1,962l. 3s. 1d.—the policy was for 2,000l.—the 1,900l. odd was all mere freight without premium, or interest, or anything of the sort—the disbursements that I have mentioned are money disbursements, and the statement does not include any interest.

Cross-examined. Q. Let me understand clearly the state of things; you have been paid 1,000l.? A. I have been paid 300l. on one policy, and something on another; I could not tell the amount—I had no insurance in Liverpool; I do insure in Liverpool often, and have some polices there now—I have not been very unfortunate—I have lost three vessels—the Thetis which I lost in September last, she was partly insured; the Panola in October last, and the Birkenhead in October—the John Sugars was in January—I had not a ship called the Jessie—that is Mr. J. R. Wilson—the Mary Oxley was managed, but not owned, by me—she was abandoned two months ago—she was not a ship of mine; the Caledonia was mine—she was lost in January or February—I do not know such a ship as the John Lucy—I did not see the captain when he came to Liverpool; 1 saw him in London about

a fortnight after the ship was lost—that was not before he went to Liver-pool; he went there first—it was before he made the protest—I did not see him after he made the protest—the parties who got the command of the freight have made no advance to me; I have received none of it.

Q. Here is your own manifest, "Freight to be paid in London?" A. Yes; it is very possible—my brokers would receive freight in London if it was there—I do not know what arrangement they made—if they got a policy of insurance, of course it was not returned—no lives have been lost in any vessels of mine that have been lost that I am aware of.

MR. SOLICITOR-GENERAL. Q. You said that three of your vessels were lost last year; what fleet or number of vessels had you at sea during that year? A. About thirty-six or thirty-seven—the Thetis I did not consider fully insured, the Panola was short insured, and the Birkenhead the same; none of them were over insured—the Thetis was going out to Quebec with timber; the Panola was bound from Bombay to Lisbon with general cargo: she was lost about 1,500 miles from here at sea, on her homeward voyage with her cargo; the Birkenhead was a timbership, too; a ship called the Caledonia was lost, which was also a timbership from St. John's to New Brunswick—none but the usual difficulty has been made by the underwriters to get off if they can—there has been nothing whatever out of the ordinary eourse—I only know by this account whether the freight or goods loaded on the John Sugars was made payable by the shippers, a certain time after the ship had sailed—whatever we received was by the broker, and would be credited to me in his account.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Is that your practice? A. It is the captain's practice—it has to be decided who is to pay for it—I supply the means as far as I can—the captain has had nothing to do with the matter, and I will carry him through—I expect I shall have to pay.

FREDERICK DAVISON . I am a son of Mr. Davison, the second partner of the firm of Fry and Davison, in Fenchurch-street—they were the loading brokers of the John Sugars—the stipulated freight of goods loaded for that ship was 1,963l. 14s. 1d.—part was to be paid in London two months after the sailing of the vessel—we have received the amount to 180l. something—this manifest is from our office—180l. appears there—I think that is near enough—that is the amount within a pound or two.