Old Bailey Proceedings.
9th May 1859
Reference Number: t18590509

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Old Bailey Proceedings front matter.
9th May 1859
Reference Numberf18590509

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A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoner's age.


OLD COURT.—Monday, May 9th, 1859.

PRESENT—The Right Hon. the LORD MAYOR; Sir GEORGE CARROLL, Knt Ald; Mr. Ald. CHALLIS; Mr. RECORDER; and Mr. Ald. ROSE.

Before Mr. Recorder and the First Jury.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-455
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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455. JACOB MYERS (26) , Stealing 1 trunk, 2 gowns, 4 petticoats, and other articles, value 3l., the property of Mary Ann Baynton, having been before convicted; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-456
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentencesImprisonment > penal servitude

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456. WILLIAM CALLAWAY (23) , Stealing the sums of 1l. 14s. 8d., on 14th January, 1l. 14s. 8d. on 18th January, and 1l. 14s. 8d. on 21st January; also stealing the like sums on 22d and 31st January; also stealing the like sums on 2d., 4th, and 8th February; to all which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Three Years' Penal Servitude.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-457
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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457. ALFRED WILLIAMS (49) , Unlawfully obtaining money by false pretences.

MR. POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES ALDOUS . I reside at 22 Soho-square—about Christmas last the prisoner called at my house—the servant came in and said that Dr. Arnott wanted to speak to me—I went out to speak to him—he said that his name was Arnott; that he was hard up; that he had spent more money than his capital, and he wanted me to advance him some money to pay it for him—I said he was a stranger to me, and asked if he had a card, to show me who he was—he said unfortunately he had not got one; but he

said, "Whatever you advance me, I will send you by Monday's post a post-office order for the amount"—this was on Saturday—I advanced him 10s.—I asked him to write his name down—I have the paper that he wrote—this is his writing, "Dr. Felix Arnott, Baliol College, Oxford"—he said he was well known there—I afterwards wrote a letter to that address, and it was returned to me by the post about a fortnight afterwards—I have it here—I should not have parted with the 10s. if I had not believed what he told me to be true—I believed him to be the person he represented.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Had you ever seen the person that called on you before that day? A. Not to my knowledge—it was about eight o'clock in the evening—he was with me about a quarter of an hour—my servant was present during the conversation—she is here—when I saw the prisoner afterwards he was in custody—some person came to me and told me that the man was in custody who had obtained the money from me, and he would take me to the place where I might look at him—he took me to the Mansion-house—he did not point out the prisoner and ask me if that was the person—my servant pointed him out, and said she was quite certain that was the man—I took her with me—we both saw him at the same time—he was standing in the dock—there was a person by his side who appeared to have charge of him, I believe an officer of the Mendicity Society—if the prisoner had called himself Dr. John Smith I might have parted with the money just as readily, or if he had said he belonged to the London University—he was very pressing for the money, and I did not wish to refuse him.

MR. POLAND. Q. If you had believed his name to be Alfred Williams, and that he lived in London, would you have advanced him the money?

A. I should have inquired.

COURT. Q. Was it the representing himself as a doctor living at Baliol-college, Oxford, that induced you to part with your money? A. Yes.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. I apprehend that you parted with the money as a mere matter of charity, in consequence of believing the person to be in distress? A. He promised to repay me by a post-office order the next post day—I parted with my money on the faith of his promise to repay me—if he had not promised to repay me, I can't say that I should have lent it to him—I thought if he was an honourable man he would certainly do so.

MR. POLAND. Q. Would you have lent him the money unless you believed the story he told you to be true? A. No.

EMMA MUNN . About Christmas last I was servant to Mr. Aldous—I remember the prisoner coming there—I cannot tell the name he gave me—I showed him in to Mr. Aldous—I saw him leave—I am quite certain he is the man.

Cross-examined. Q. You had never seen him before? A. No, I had not seen him since Christmas until I saw him at the Mansion-house two or three weeks ago—I went there with my master—I saw him standing in the dock—he was not pointed out to me as the person—I said so directly I saw him—I was asked by some person there if he was the man—I can't say whether that was before or after I pointed him out—I believe I had said it first—I am positive of it—I was in a little doubt just now, but I am certain now—I was standing in the hall when the prisoner came to my master, and I heard the conversation.

JOSEPH FREEMAN . I am an iron-merchant, and live at 22, Cannon-street, City—on 21st January the prisoner called on me in Cannon-street—he said that he had just arrived from Edinburgh by the steam boat, that his luggage

was at the St. Katherine docks, that he had spent the whole of his money, and was at a loss to know how to return to Lowmore, in Yorkshire, where he resided—I told him that I had so often been imposed upon, that I felt bound to be cautious; that I felt some delicacy in doubting his Word, as he had the appearance and conversation of a gentleman—he then stated that he was Dr. Phoenix Arnott Wilson, and he resided at Carr-lane, Lowmore—I wrote it down at the time—I asked him if he knew any of the parties residing there—he said he knew the Rev. Mr. Forsett, the clergyman, and Mr. Wickham, the member for Bradford—that if Mr. Wickham had been in town he should not have had occasion to apply to me—I knew both those gentlemen, and knew that Mr. Wickham was not in town—I have very large iron works at Lowmore—he spoke of those, and of the appearance of the tremendous fires burning at night, and the large cinder heaps; and he spoke of a Miss Dawson as a very benevolent lady residing there, who I knew very well—I asked him what he would require to take him to the works—he said a sovereign—he said, "I cannot walk into a pawnbroker's shop, being a gentleman, to leave my watch; but if you will allow me to leave it in your possession, I shall feel a pleasure in doing so"—I said I could not listen to that for a moment—I said, "A sovereign cannot take you down to Lowmore"—he said, "Yes, it can, in a third-class carriage"—I then said, "Believing your tale to be true, I should not think of your being content with a sovereign; I shall give you two: if I do the thing at all, I will do it liberally"—he bowed and thanked me, and said he was a man of honour and a Christian, and he would return it me by post-office order next day—I have never received the money—I parted with the two sovereigns believing the tale to be true—I made inquiries, and found it to be false—I then gave information to the detective police.

Cross-examined. Q. If I understand you correctly, you rather offered him the money on his making the statement to you of the position in which he was? A. The second sovereign, undoubtedly—he offered to leave his watch with me, which I declined, as a gentleman I could not hold another man's watch—it was the general statement of being in pecuniary difficulties which operated upon my mind, and his representing himself to reside in the place where I was deeply interested, that decidedly created a credit in my mind, representing himself as living in a locality in which my name is known probably to every person in the place—the promise of repayment did not operate on my mind; that was after I had given him the money—he offered me the watch before I parted with my money—he gave me to understand that he was a medical doctor.

GEORGE WOOLLER . I am registrar of births and deaths for the district of North Briarly, Yorkshire; that includes Lowmore—I have lived in that neighbourhood more than fifty years—I know Carr-lane very well—I should say that the prisoner did not live in Carr-lane on 21st January—I know all the householders in that lane; there are not more than sixty—I never knew the prisoner living in any part of Lowmore—no such person as Dr. Phoenix Arnott Wilson ever lived there.

Cross-examined. Q. How long have you lived at Lowmore? A. I was born there in 1789—I have lived there ever since—I should say I know all the people in the locality of Lowmore, but especially in Carr-lane—I don't intend to say that I know every person who has resided there for the last two or three years—I am sure the prisoner was never there as the occupier of a house—he might be there as a lodger.

MR. POLAND. Q. But you never knew him lodging there? A. No; and as a doctor he could not be, because I am obliged to make a return of all medical men every year to London.

THOMAS NEWMAN . I am a merchant in Old Broad-street, City—about 20th February, the prisoner called at my private house in Arlington-street, Piccadilly—he was shown into the room—he apologized for calling, and hoped that under the circumstances I should overlook it, that he was placed in a very awkward position, having just arrived from Edinburgh by the steam-boat, and having no friends in London, that he was on his way to Teignmouth, that he had heard I came from that part of the country, and he should be much obliged if I would assist him to get on, as his luggage was at St. Katherine's-wharf, and he could not get it from there to an hotel—he said, his passage had been a very long one, and that was the reason he was short of money, that he had only got fourpence in his pocket, which he showed me—he said he lived at 18, Waterloo-place, Edinburgh, and was on his way to Teignmouth—he mentioned two or three names that I knew very well—one was the clergyman of my parish—he also mentioned a doctor there whom I did not know—I gave him a few shillings that I had in my pocket, and said that would be sufficient to get him to an hotel, and from there he could write to his friends for assistance—he sent in his name as Dr. Wilson, and that was the reason I admitted him; because, usually, I only admit persons that I know; but I considered him to be a gentleman—I gave him four shillings, believing his story to be true—I asked him his name and address myself, and he gave it as Dr. Felix Wilson.

Cross-examined. Q. The general statement that he was in distress was what operated upon your mind? A. It was; that is, temporary distress, from having spent his means—his saying that he was a doctor made no difference—the promise to repay had no effect—I did not expect it—I thought if his statement was true, he was in an awkward position, and that I would give him the means of writing to his friends.

MR. POLAND. Q. Did you believe his statement. A. I can't say that I did—but it was so late in the day, that I had no opportunity of ascertaining whether his story was true, and I gave him the benefit of the doubt—it was the statement he made that induced me to part with the four shillings.

COURT. Q. But you say you did not believe his story? A. I did not; at the same time, I thought there was just a possibility that it might be true, and I gave him a few shillings until I could make inquiry—I gave him the money to enable him to get his luggage, and get to an hotel.

EBENEZER RADWELL . I am a clerk at St. Katherine's-wharf, Lower East Smith field, where the boats from Edinburgh come to—no luggage was detained there in January or February last belonging to a Dr. Felix Wilson, or any such name—I know nothing of the prisoner—I never saw him till he was in the Mansion-house—I have never been applied to for any luggage of his detained there.

Cross-examined. Q. Are there various departments at that wharf? A. Yes—I belong to the landing department and the accountant's office—I take account of the luggage that is detained for passage money or other expenses—a gentleman named Busher also attends there, but it is more my department than his; in my absence he does the duty—there are other steam-packet wharfs close to ours, to which Scotch boats come, and with which I have nothing to do—they come to Irongate-wharf, which is next to ours—Mr. Busher is not here—he has the foreign department, I have the coasting department—the wharfinger, Mr. Scott, performs my duty

when I am not there, and the luggage is handed over to me when I come—Mr. Scott is not here.

JOHN WILLIAM HORSFORD . I am an officer of the Mendicity Society—I took the prisoner into custody on the 4th of April—I told him it was for obtaining two sovereigns under false pretences from Mr. Freeman, of Cannon-street—he said he knew nothing at all about it—I told him he would have to go—he said he should do no such thing, he should resist any unlawful apprehension—we had some words—I told the constable to put him in a cab—I went down to Mr. Freeman, who identified him—he said that I had been taking his name in vain, that I should not do it again, and if I did it would be the worse for me—I have known the prisoner about five or six months—I have always known him by the name of Williams—that is the name I have addressed him by, and he has answered me—I never knew "him practising as a doctor, or as Doctor Felix Wilson, or Dr. Arnott—I never knew him as a medical man—on searching him I found a lot of different bits of paper with various names on them—I produce them.

GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.

HORSFORD stated that the prisoner was the associate of regular begging letter impostors.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-458
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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458. CHARLES MARCHANT (28) , Stealing 33 lbs. of indigo, value 8l. 5s. of Charles James Major, his master.

MR. LILLET conducted the Prosecution.

ANTHONY WILSON MONGER . I am a constable of the City of London—about a quarter past 9 o'clock on the evening of the 24th April I was in Jewry-street, Crutched-friars—I saw the prisoner come out of the Lamb and Flag public-house with this bag on his shoulder—I followed him—a person caught hold of me and tried to detain me, and tried to draw me into the public-house—I followed the prisoner up George-street, into the Minories, about two hundred yards—he turned round and saw me, took the bag off his shoulder and put it down by the side of a post—I immediately crossed over to him and asked him if he would be kind enough to tell me what he had in the bag—he stood smiling at me—I asked him a second time—he then said "You are joking"—I told him I was not joking, I was determined to know what he had in the bag—he said "You must have some motive in it"—I told him I had a motive, I thought it was all wrong, and if he would not tell me I would take him down to the station-house—he then said he would go to the station—I took him into custody, and took possession of the bag—I had hold of the bag, carrying it in my left hand, and the prisoner with my right—as I was taking him down John-street, he said, "I do not like to be showed up like this, if you will allow me I will carry the bag and walk with you to the station"—I told him I would allow him; I handed the bag over to him and he put it on his shoulder—just as we crossed America-square he turned round, threw the bag off his shoulder on to my legs, and said, "I do not see why I should go to the station," and ran away across America-square into the Minories—I followed, calling out "Stop thief!" and he was stopped—I gave him in charge to one of the officers, and I immediately ran back for the bag—his throwing down the bag at my legs did not hurt me, but it gave him a chance of escaping—I took the bag to the station—the prisoner there stated that he was ordered from his employer, Mr. Major, to go and get 490 samples of indigo from Mincing-lane—he mentioned the name of the merchants, but I forget it—and he was to take them to Jones and Candler, in Coopers-row—he said in the course of

the afternoon he heard that a man had been stealing his samples, that he went after the man and caught him in Northumberland-alley, Crutchedfriars, that he said, "You have some of my samples here," that the man made a reply, and begged very hard for mercy, and he said "I shall call a policeman and give you in charge for stealing them," that the man said "For the sake of my wife and family I hope you will not do it; let me go;" he said, "I took it into consideration and allowed the man to go; and I took the bag over to the Lamb and Flag, and asked them to mind it for me"—he told me that he had been packing samples at Jones and Candler's—when I saw him he was going the contrary way to Cooper's-row—I produce 17 sample papers.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Whereabouts is Cooper's-row? A. Just opposite the bottom of John-street, or a part of Crutched-friars—Billiter-street is right opposite Mark-lane, or midway in Leadenhall-street—he was going away from Billiter-street—he went up Crutched-friars to Jewry-street and turned up into the Minories—he was as sober as I am now—Foulger, an officer here, saw him.

WILLIAM HENRY BAKER . I am assistant to Mrs. Baker, who keeps the Lamb and Flag, Crutched-friars—it is near Cooper's-row—I have known the prisoner some time working in the neighbourhood—on the afternoon of the 24th of April, the day before we went before the Magistrate, he came to my house—it must have been either at 12 o'clock or 4, or after 4, but to the best of my belief I think it was before I had my tea—in my depositions I beg to be excused, as I met with an accident three years ago on board a ship—the prisoner brought a bag and left it in my charge—I always thought him to be a very respectable young man, and took charge of it—he called again at a little before 9 o'clock in the evening and it was brought down-stairs by my mother—I thought it had been given to him before, and said, "What, have not you had it away yet?"—he was sober—I cannot say whether I had had my dinner when the bag was brought, but it was either dinner time or tea time.

Cross-examined. Q. Though he was sober when he brought it, did he drink before he took it away? A. I believe he had a pint of porter, and half a quartern of gin and some cold water in front of the bar, and changed a sovereign, and had 19s. 10d. change; that was when he came for it—I did not notice whether he was under the influence of liquor—I have known him between eight and nine years—he brought it quite openly, just as you might leave an overcoat, and asked me for a bit of string to tie it up, he said "Here is a bag I want you to take care of."

MR. LILLEY. Q. When the bag was fetched away at 9 o'clock, how long did he remain? A. I cannot say—I never saw him more sober in my life.

JOSEPH DAW , junior. I am managing clerk to Charles James Major, of Billiter-street, a commission agent—the prisoner was his porter up to 20th April, when I saw him leave at 11 in the morning, by my orders, to go to Messrs. Detmar and Fowler, of Mincing-lane, and receive 495 samples of indigo, which he was instructed by me to pack in five cases, which were to be nailed up and properly cased with gunny bags, and shipped for Southampton—I instructed him to go with the truck, not wishing to entrust one man only—next morning after he was taken I stopped the five cases, in consequence of information I received, and twenty-two samples were missing—I have looked at these samples, they are part of the samples which should have been packed in these cases—I was out when the prisoner returned to the office, but I think he returned between 4 and 5; I returned about half-past

5, finished my letters, and at about a quarter-past 6 I asked the prisoner if his work was finished, and requested him to give me the list of samples packed in the chest—he gave me this paper (produced). I inquired if the chests were full, he said, "No, one was not full, there was about an inch space at the top"—I asked him if they were cased, which is to prevent the indigo from passing out, and suggested that the bases should be cut down, but he said that it would not be necessary—I have seen the samples brought by the officer, if those samples had been placed in the chest they would have filled it—this list, given me by the prisoner, contains not only those in the case, but those that were missing, the seventeen missing are ticked off.

Cross-examined. Q. Are the five included? A. No, not the numbers; he has put down 495 samples, but there are only 490—he was to take five samples from my office to Jones and Candler's, to pack them with the rest; I do not know whether he has done so, but I know he did not go into the office after he left it—the numbers of all those obtained from the packers are mentioned in the paper—the five missing are the five samples that came from my office—the prisoner bore a very excellent character, I would have entrusted him with any amount of goods—he has been about seven years in the employment, and I had the highest opinion of him—I did not see him go from the office—I think I left before him, but I saw him take them from the office—he showed them to me, but I did not follow him downstairs; he said "Here are the five samples, I am going to take them to pack."

MR. LILLET. Q. Did he say anything about returning five samples? A. No; on the contrary, he said that they were all packed—this lift is in his writing, but the numbers are not.

RICHARD CANDLER . I am a licensed carman in company with Mr. Jones, at 20, Cooper's-row—on 19th April, our cart was ordered to fetch some indigo by the prisoner—it was brought to our premises, and I saw the prisoner engaged in packing it with some of our men till between one and two, when I left—we sent for it to Mincing-lane.

MR. METCALFE stated that he could not struggle against the evidence. GUILTY. Recommended to mercy by the Jury and Prosecutor. Confined Four Months.

NEW COURT.—Monday, May 9th, 1859.



Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Fifth Jury.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-459
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown

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459. WILLIAM BEACH (24), and JAMES MULLINEUX (40) , Robbery on James Copelin, stealing from his person a watch, his property.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES COPELIN . I live in Poland Street—on Good Friday I went to Hackney; about seven o'clock that evening I was in the White Lion, standing in front of the bar, I had just put down my glass, and I felt somebody put their hand on my shoulder—I turned and saw Beach with my watch in both his hands; I seized him by the throat, and my arms were pinioned from behind—I tried to take hold of the watch with my left hand, and saw him wrench it off the chain and pass it to some other person—several hands were held out—I could not see the exact hand that took it—I saw Mullineux

there, and I saw his hand out with others—I held Beach, he bit my finger and struck me over the head.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALPE. Q. Were there many people? A. I should think there were about a dozen altogether—they were standing pretty close together—my father and another gentleman were with me—my father was talking to the landlord, and when he heard me he came out—the other gentleman was three or four persons from me—my friend was not on the same side where I saw Beach—I was nearest to the door, I held Beach till he was taken—I saw the watch in his hand—when I caught hold of him he had not passed it—I am shopman to Mr. Dyer—I have been with him four months and a half—my father and friend are not here.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Were you out for the day? A. I had been out since 1 o'clock—I had not been in any other public-house—I mean to say that Mullineux was quite near enough to take the watch—this was at the bar—Mullineux was close to me—Beach was in front of me, and Mullineux was close to Beach, on his right-hand side—there were a dozen others about me—I cannot say who was the man to whom the watch was handed—there were more hands held out—I can't say whether my friend must have seen it; it was done so suddenly—I did not see Mullineux again till I saw him at the police-court—he was with other prisoners—I pointed him out to the policeman—I had no conversation with the policeman before I pointed Mullineux out—the policeman sent a message to my father by the boy, that they had got the man—the policeman said I must point out the man, and I said I could—I went in to where he was, with, I should think, seven or eight other prisoners—not in the dock, in the room—Beach was not there, I suppose he was in the House of Detention—I saw Mullineux at Worship-street police-court, in a place adjoining the court—I met the policeman outside—I went in with him—I did not see anybody talk to Mullineux before I pointed him out—he had his hat on—he was not desired to take it off—I pointed him out before I went in to where he was—I saw all the others.

JOHN ALLEN . I am one of the keepers of Victoria-park. On Good Friday evening I was in the White Lion—I saw the prosecutor there and the prisoners—I saw Beach put his hand to Mr. Copelin's waistcoat pocket and take his watch—I saw Mr. Copelin catch hold of him—Beach put the watch down by his right into Mullineux's hand, and Mullineux made a rush and got out of the door—I am quite sure the prisoners are the men.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Was Beach drunk? A. No; quite sober—I cannot tell who else was there—some of the party knocked his hat over the prosecutor's face.

JOHN HOLLAND (Policeman, H 155). I apprehended Mullineux—on the day before Good Friday I saw the two prisoners together—I have known them to keep company for some time.



Confiined Six Months each.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-460
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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460. FANNY PUGH (18) , Stealing 78 yards of silk, value 30l. of Charles Nicholson, in his dwelling-house.

CHARLES COLET . I am a pawnbroker, and live in the Lower-road, Islington—the prisoner came to the shop on 27th April, between 2 and 3 o'clock, she brought with her this 78 yards of silk, and asked for an advance of 8l. on it—I refused it, and asked her where she obtained it—she

said that her sister's husband bought it of a man going to Australia—I told her to go and fetch the man; she went out and returned in about seven minutes with a woman, who said her husband had bought it of a man who was going to Australia—I refused to give the silk back or to advance any money on it, and told her to fetch the man—the prisoner and the woman then left together, and the prisoner returned in about half-an-hour to know whether I would advance a less sum on it, as she had a payment to make that night; I asked why she had not brought the man—she said he was gone to Dalston, because he was a gardener—she still required to have the silk—I refused it, and she went away—I kept the silk, and have it here—this is it—the prisoner gave the name of Evans when she first came—the woman who came was older than the prisoner—she gave the name of Evans.

CHARLES ETHERIDGE . I am warehouseman to Mr. Charles Nicholson—the prisoner was employed by Mrs. McLean to carry the goods to and from our warehouse for the work-people—I remember her coming on 27th April—I saw her in the warehouse within two or three yards of the place where I was sitting—she remained two or three hours. I know this silk—it is the property of Mr. Charles Nicholson—I know it was safe during the time that the prisoner was in the warehouse—I had it in my hand while she was there, and took three yards off—I missed it about half-an-hour after she had left—I did not see it again till I saw it in Mr. Coley's shop—I am sure it is the same silk—it is worth about 30l—had it been a plain silk I could not have so easily identified it—I bought it myself recently in Paris.

Prisoner. I did not take it.

Witness. She was there with the forewoman of Mrs. McLean, who is here—there were other persons there.

EMILY PILE . I am forewoman to Mrs. McLean, a mantle-maker—on 27th April, between 11 and 12 o'clock, I went to the warehouse of Mr. Nicholson—the prisoner was with me—she had been in the habit of taking things backwards and forwards—she went with me that day—I remained there while she was there—we left together—she had a basket with her which was large enough to have held this parcel—the basket was covered—there was something in it when she brought it into the warehouse—there was room in the basket for the things I entrusted her to take beside this parcel, and a great deal more—I did not put the things that I purchased into the basket; I gave them to her to put in.

Prisoner. She put them in herself.

Witness. No I did not; I gave them to her—she was in the warehouse, and the basket was standing on the ground—I left her to put the things in—I did not see in the basket—I was busy seeing Mr. Etheridge measuring and marking the articles—I was marking the things off and giving them to her—she put them in.

JOHN MARK BULL (City Policeman). On 29th April I went to 18, Oxford-terrace, Lower-road, Islington—I found the prisoner; I told her she might consider herself in custody, that I was a police-officer, and took her for stealing on the Wednesday before about 80 yards of silk from Mr. Nicholson's, and offering to pledge it at a pawnbroker's in the Lower-road—she said she never took the silk, and never offered any to pawn—Mr. Coley saw her, there were three other females in the room, he said, "That is the young female that brought the silk on Wednesday last to my shop"—I cautioned the prisoner, and she then said a female gave it her outside the warehouse, and asked her to pawn it—she afterwards said a female gave it her in the Lower-road by the cab-stand.

Prisoner's Defence. I did not take the silk—I was coming out, and a woman spoke to me, and I saw her again in the Lower-road, and she asked me to take it for her and pawn it.

COURT to EMILT PILE. Q. What time did you leave the warehouse? A. About twenty minutes before 3 o'clock—I went in an omnibus—the prisoner was to walk home.

GUILTY .— Twelve Months.

OLD COURT.—Tuesday, May 10th, 1859.


Before Mr. Recorder and the Second Jury.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-461
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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461. ALEXANDER JOHNSON (20) , Stealing 15 gross of screws, 1 gross of nails, and 11 locks, value 2l. 9s.; and within six months, 6 locks and 24 cranks, value 1l. 16s., of Edward Parks; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-462
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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462. MARTIN BROWN (51) , Feloniously uttering a forged receipt for the sum of 4l. 7s. with intent to defraud.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY HENTALL . I am a Post-office carrier, and live at Cowley, in Middlesex—in 1855 I became acquainted with the prisoner, who was living independent—he told me that his income was 150l. a-year—I lent him money occasionally, and continued friendly with him up to the present year—in, and previous to, September, 1856, I had an uncle living with me—he died at my house, and a bill was incurred of 4l. 7s. to Mr. Morton, an undertaker—I gave the prisoner 4l. 10s., in gold, to pay Mr. Morton's bill, and two or three days afterwards he returned me the bill receipted, saying that he had made use of the 3s. change, and asking me to let it go to the other account—I had the bill in my possession about a month, brought it up to town, and left it with my aunt—long after that, in November last, I had a conversation with the prisoner about his past conduct, he said that if he got involved in difficulties again, he would never submit to what he had before—that he some time ago signed a document for his father-in-law, for which, if it had been found out, he should have been transported years ago; also, an act which he had done, which was unto the best friend that he ever had—in consequence of suspicions from that conversation, I went to Mr. Morton, the undertaker.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. When did you say you became acquainted with the prisoner. A. In 1855; February, I believe—till the present year I was on very friendly terms with him, and then a quarrel took place—there bad been quarrels before—there were angry words in the early part of this year—I am out of employment now—I was dismissed by the Post-office authorities on Monday week—that was after I preferred this charge—the defendant was living on the pension which he has from Government, 152l. a-year—I have been twenty years, and if I had been twenty years more I should have had no pension—the reasons assigned for dismissing me were, being overloaded one Sunday, I had a large packet for Mr. Lamb, weighing ten pounds, and I left it behind, by Mr. Lamb's permission, and about three months afterwards another individual complained

of me—I was dismissed for something which was not complained of by the Postmaster—I do not know that there are persons connected with the Post-office here—I know Mr. Hopkinson; he is connected with the Post-office at Huntingdon—I have seen him here—that was the only reason stated for my dismissal—I adhere to that decidedly—numbers of complaints have been made before, but not to me—none of them were became I happened to leave a bag behind which was too heavy; it was on account of the irregularity, the letters not being directed properly—at the time I gave this money to Mr. Morton there had recently been a death in my family—I was not at that time in very reduced circumstances—I was summoned in the County Court, in September, 1856, for 2l. 8s. 6d., by James Baynham, a grocer, of Uxbridge—I did not pay the money by small instalments; I paid 1l. 7s. into court, and had no more to pay—that was on 16th January, 1856—between that and September, I do not believe I was sued in the same County Court—I know Mr. Redraff—he saw me in the County Court seven years ago—I believe it was against Mr. Cote—there was a verdict given against me—I know a Mr. Bradshaw—the learned Judge did not tell me to stand down, as he did not believe a word I said, though I had been on my oath; nothing of the kind—Mr. Gardner, a solicitor of Uxbridge, conducted the case, and I had little to say in the matter—I have known Mr. Morton for some time—I have had dealings with him for these last fourteen years—he was not in the district where I delivered letters—I did not know his writing; I had never seen him write—I did not know the prisoner's writing at the time I gave him the money to pay the bill—I knew him in 1855, but never saw him write to my knowledge—I believe this "Received the above, Henry Morton," to be the prisoner's writing—I know his writing; he has written things for me—I have got his writing here—in the course of my delivery of letters it was my duty to pass Mr. Morton's house every day and night, and since that time—the prisoner lived four miles away, but he went to Uxbridge every week for his grocery—I gave him the money against his own residence, in the high road; he was on his own premises, and I was on the footpath—I had not been into his house because I was in a hurry—it was in the open road—I saw no persons present—I got the bill back about the second or third day, and took it to my aunt's about a month afterwards—I cannot say but what I repeatedly met Mr. Morton—I did not say a word to him about the payment of the 4l. 7s. till I went to inquire of him—I had owed him money previously, and had paid him as speedily before—I have a document here which I can show—I owed him money in 1847; that was the last bill, 4l. 13s. 3d., and that was paid ten days after it was contracted; that was the last transaction I had with him: no, I have found another, of January 9th, 1856, and on January 11th, for 16s. and 1l. 5s—the dealing was with his servants—I did not say one word to them about this bill being paid by me—this was on 21st March—in January, I was summoned before the Magistrate for shooting somebody's pigeons, and I have been told that the defendant was summoned as a witness against me, but he did not see the transaction—a fortnight before I went to Mr. Morton about this bill I may have had a conversation with Mr. Hopkinson, of the Post-office, about the pigeon being shot, for it was in everybody's mouth—I had not denied that I shot the pigeon; I denied that anybody had seen me do it—I afterwards paid him 10s. for it—I did not say to Mr. Hopkinson that I understood that Brown had been subpoenaed as a witness against me, and that I would get up a case against him, and be even with him; nothing of the kind—I did not add to

that, that I had him on the brink of a precipice, and if he did not mind I would throw him over; I never uttered such words—I did not say that I had a charge against him, and would be even with him, for I had no such intention in my head—I decidedly deny having said anything as to doing Brown an injury, or that I would get up a case against him—I went to the Magistrate on 22d March, the next day after calling on Mr. Morton—the case was heard before the Magistrate three times—I showed this bill to Mr. Morton—I received the bill back from my aunt on 19th March, and I went on the 21st—the 3s. was paid to me in 1857, with other money which I had lent him—I had been in the habit of lending him money from week to week—I owed Mr. Morton a bill in 1848, which I did not pay till 1853—that was not my bill, though it was made out to me; not the whole of it—a portion of it was mine, and 5l. 3s. 6d. was my brother-in-law's, which I objected to pay—the conversation I had with the defendant, which created my suspicions, was in his own house—no one was present; it was at night, and we were sitting up together—I have mentioned before that he said he had signed a document for his father-in-law, for which he might have been transported, had it been found out—I understood him his father-in-law—I do not think I mentioned it before the Magistrate—I have not said that he had done an act for his best friend which would render him liable to punishment—what he said was, that if he could get through the difficulty, he would never do the like again.

MR. COOPER. Q. When the receipt was brought, did you think it all right? A. Yes—my wages from the Post-office were 17s. 6d. a-week, and with the amount coming in with my family altogether, my income was upwards of 3l. a week—my bill was charged to another person, and I did not pay it; but eventually it was paid—the pigeon came to my pigeons, and destroyed the eggs; and Mr. Brown had repeatedly told me to destroy it.

COURT. Q. Did you ever have any account? A. No, nor bill—I always trusted to him.

HENRY MORTON , the elder. I am a builder and undertaker, of Uxbridge—the prosecutor owed me 4l. 7s., but I was never paid—this receipt is not my writing or that of any person in my establishment—the prisoner never paid me 4l. 7s.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you known the prisoner many years? A. No; I never saw him till he was at the Magistrate's office in custody—I have known the prosecutor many years—he has owed me money on previous occasions—he called on me after the funeral, and asked me to have the account made out—I was most likely in the habit of seeing him in the streets in September and October, but he never spoke to me on the subject of the bill—he avoided me latterly; when he saw me coming he got out of the way—from what has recently transpired, I would not believe him on his oath at the present moment.

MR. COOPER Q. You would not believe who? A. Henry Hentall—I have had no dispute with him; but I would not believe him from the evidence at the Magistrate's office.

CHARLES SHERRINGTON URRY . I am clerk to Mr. Shackle, of Uxbridge, and was clerk to Mr. Morton at that time—this bill is my writing, but the receipt is not—I do not know whose writing it is, and never received the 4l. 7s.

ROBERT HOLLAND (Policeman, T 297). I produce this bill.

Cross-examined. Q. How long have you known the prisoner? A. About two months.

MR. SLEIGH called

JOHN REDRUFF . I have lived at Uxbridge thirty-seven or thirty-eight years, and have been acquainted with the prisoner perhaps five or six years;—I believe he is a married man with a family, and believe him to bear the character of a respectable, honourable man—I have never heard the slightest imputation on his character—I have known the prosecutor fourteen or fifteen years, and from my knowledge of him I would not believe him on his oath.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Why? A. I sued him in the Uxbridge I County Court about seven or eight years ago for upwards of 2l., and he denied my having giving him a bill, which I had done, in consequence of which the case was adjourned; and in consequence of that I would not believe him on his oath.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Are you a news agent? A. Yes—the verdict was given for me.

CHARLES JAMES MURRAY . I was formerly postmaster at Uxbridge—I have known the prosecutor between eight and nine years, and from what I know of him I would not believe him on his oath.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you in the post-office now? A. No, I resigned—I was not dismissed, on my oath—I would not believe him on his oath, because we could never get the truth from-him in any statement that he made—when complaints were made against him he never had manhood enough to acknowledge it, but always prevaricated, and threw the blame on other people.


9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-463
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

Related Material

463. ROBERT DALE (21) , Unlawfully inflicting upon Joseph Nicholas Arundel grievous bodily harm—Second Count for an unlawful wounding.

MR. METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.

JOSEPH NICHOLAS ARUNDEL . I am a cab-driver, living at 8, Thompson's-rents, Half Moon-street, Bishopsgate—I drive from Mr. Spencer's yard, 13, Great George-street, Bethnal-green—I had been driving for him on 12th April—I left the yard about half-past 1in the morning—about 3 o'clock I was at the Swan-yard in Shoreditch, which adjoins Slater-street, when I saw the prisoner in police uniform standing in a doorway, a kind of double doorway, next to the Swan public-house; there were two young men talking to him—they were the witnesses, John Fulligan and Mitchell—at that time I knew neither of them, or the policeman either—as I was passing on the left-hand side, on the other side of the street, Fulligan rolled or reeled across; I thought he was intoxicated, and, thinking he was going to fall, I held out my hand and said, "Hold up, old fellow! don't say down yet;" with that he turned round and said, "You be b—d"—I said, "The same compliment to you;" with that there was a scuffle between us—no blows were struck—we laid hands upon each other, and we both fell to the ground; Fulligan was underneath, and I was on the top—I was in the act of getting up when I saw the policeman come direct from the door—up to that time nothing had occurred but the struggle I speak of—there was no noise, or disturbance, or any blows struck by either of us—neither of us were injured by the tumble—the policeman came across and struck me on the head with his truncheon—I had three wounds—he said nothing to me, or I to him—I felt great pain from the blows for three or four days—it half sillied me at the time—I put up my hands and found that I was bleeding—I was smothered in blood—I said, "For God in heaven's sake, man, don't ill-use me in that way; don't murder me;

I never did you any harm; I have a wife and young family dependent upon me for support;" with that he struck me again on the forehead, and on the eye also, with the staff—another policemen then came up, and I turned round and gave Fulligan in charge—I said, "That is the young man that first assaulted me, but that is not the man that has done this; it is the police constable, H 45, that has done it"—all the blows were struck with the truncheon—the blood flowed from my eye and my head—we all went to the station together—on the way I met three of my fellow servants—they said to me, "Hollo, Joe! what is the matter?—I said, "This man has done this"—that is the policeman—they are not here to-day—when we got to the station I had recovered my senses, and I liberated Fulligan; I would not press the charge against him; and I accused the policeman of it in the station—I told the acting-inspector that he had done it, and pointed out my wounds to him—he saw me bleeding—the prisoner said that he did not do it, it was done in the fight—I said I should apply to the magistrate for a summons against him—the acting-inspector sent for a surgeon, and one of the dressers came and dressed my wounds—I was perfectly sober—I left my master's yard between 1 and o'clock—the horsekeeper who saw me there is here—between that time and my seeing the prisoner, I was standing at the corner of Eyre-street, waiting for my two fellow-servants coming out of the yard—I have only worked for five days within the last month—I tried to go to work on the Sunday following, but I was forced to go home early—I could not stand the day's work—I do not feel much effects now—the effects did continue for a considerable time.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH Q. Had you been to any public-house after you left work before this occurred? A. No—I had been to one with my three fellow servants—we had three pots of half-and-half between five of us—that was at a public-house in Slater-street, 100 or 150 yards from where this occurred—I had not been into any other public-house just before that; I certainly had in the course of the evening—in my capacity I am obliged to go into public-houses—but not from the time I left work—I drank nothing but spruce or shrub—I might have been into six, seven, or eight houses—I did not have a drop at each—I had been a teetotaller in my business for a month previously; not out of my business—I had no friends with me when this happened; they had left me to go home—I was walking when Fulligan came across to me—the scuffle did not last a moment—the prisoner did not come across to assist me up—I positively deny it—I do not know a man named Hazel (Hazel was called in)—I did not see him on the night in question; he was not there—the prisoner gave me these blows without the slightest provocation, and the blood flowed down immediately—when the other policeman came up, I gave Fulligan in charge, first, for assaulting me, he was taken in custody to the station—I was half silly at the time; I scarcely knew what I was about from the effects of the blows I had received—I accused the prisoner of it at the station—I accused him to the acting-inspector of ill-using me with his truncheon—it was the truncheon that brought the blood—the prisoner said I got the injuries by the scuffle—the acting-inspector immediately called upon the prisoner to pull his truncheon out, and he examined it in my presence—there was no blood to be seen upon it—it was a very dark night—it might be six, seven, or eight yards from a gas lamp—as we were going to the station, I said to the defendant, "You struck me," and he said, "You got it in the fight with the other man"—I asked Fulligan at the station, in the prisoner's presence,

whether he had seen the prisoner strike me—I did not ask Mitchell—Fulligan did not say, "I cannot swear to that, and I won't"—I told him, if he was a man, to speak as an Englishman—he said, he could not exactly say that the policeman had struck me.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Was that at the police-station? A. Yes—there might have been three or four constables there; I can't exactly say how many—I did not press the charge against the prisoner there—I said, I should take out a summons against him—it was a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes after the blows were struck that the truncheon was examined—I can't say whether the prisoner had the opportunity of wiping it or not in the mean time; I was not watching him—when the second policeman came up, I was partly leaning against a brick wall—I can't say exactly how I came there—I am quite confident that the prisoner made no attempt to help me up; the first thing he did was to strike me on the head.

JOHN FULLAGAN . I am a painter, and live at 4, Park-place, Haggerstone—on 12th April, near upon 3 o'clock in the morning, I was with Charles Mitchell, standing talking to the prisoner at the corner of Swan-yard, Slater-street—I was in liquor, but not so very much; I knew what took I place—while we were talking, Arundel came by on the opposite side of the street—he said something to me; I can't say what the words were—I crossed the road, and asked what he meant by it—a scuffle immediately ensued between us, and we fell, I undermost—I got up, and was standing in the middle of the road, and my friend too—I did not see the prisoner come across the road, but I saw him lay hold of Arundel by the left hand, and strike him two or three times over the head with his truncheon—Arundel was then standing where we had the scuffle—he never said a word—the blows were struck heavily—his head bled a good deal—the blows took effect upon the head and the eye—I cannot tell whether Arundel was sober—we all went down to the station together, and he charged me with the first assault—after Arundel was struck, I ran away about the distance of fifteen yards—the prisoner struck at me with his staff, after he had struck Arundel—my friend came after me, and said, "By God, I think he has hurt the man; let us come back"—we did so, and the second policeman came up within a yard before we got there—at the time I was given into custody, "Arundel said, "This is not the man that struck me in this way; H 46 is the man that has done it"—I do not know what was said at the station, I was so confused—I afterwards attended before the Magistrate—after the summons was taken out, the prisoner came to my place on the Wednesday or Thursday, another constable came with him—I should know him again; I believe I have seen him here to-day—the prisoner said to me, "We must all stick together; and if you are fined I will pay half the expenses"—he gave me his address on the morning after the occurrence, this is it (produced)—he followed me after I left the station with ray friend, and said, "I want your address;" I gave it him; he wrote it down himself, and he gave me his own address; to meet him on the Tuesday after.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you not really very drunk? A. No, not so drunk but I knew what I saw; I could walk steadily—I have not stated that I was very drunk; I was in liquor, but I was not so very drunk—I could not say whether Arundel was sober or drunk when I went up to him; I believe he was perfectly sober—we were not a moment scuffling together before we fell; we were merely like two children in the street cuddling each

other; no blows were struck between us—Mitchell was a little the worse for liquor, he was not drunk—I cannot recollect whether Arundel asked me at the station if I saw the policeman strike him—I cannot recollect saying that I could not say anything of the kind—I cannot swear I did not—Arundel did not fall at the first blow, he did at the second—I saw the blood—the prisoner had Arundel by the hand at the time, while the blood was running; he was holding him with his left hand and striking him with the right—I saw him holding him after the blood began to flow; he never let go of him—my mother was present when the prisoner and the other constable came to my house—my mother is not here; she has met with an accident, or she would have been here; she fell downstairs yesterday—she was here yesterday—the accident happened in the evening.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Do you know whether the prisoner was sober when this occurred? A. I won't say—I had been drinking with him in Church-street, Shoreditch—we got talking and walking along, and went to Slater-street—we had a pot of porter there—I drank with him at two public-houses—we had some pale ale at the first house.

CHARLES MITCHELL . I am a hair-dresser, and live at 23 Union-street, Hackney-road—I was with Fulligan talking to the policeman on 12th April—I remember the prosecutor coming by—I and Fulligan and the policeman were standing at Swan-yard talking together—the prosecutor was passing on the opposite side of the road; he called over and said something to us—my friend crossed over, being in liquor; a scuffle ensued, and they both fell—no blows were struck—the policeman ran across the road directly from where he was standing at my side and struck the prosecutor on the head two or three times with his truncheon—I was then standing in the middle of the road about three yards from the policeman—I saw the blood—he struck him two or three times on the head with the truncheon—Arundel did nothing at all to justify this—he was not violent or abusive; he did not say a word—while the policeman was striking him ho said, "For God's sake don't murder me, I have got a wife and family to support," or some-thing of that sort—the prisoner struck him again after that—after he had struck him the last time, he turned round and made a strike at my friend; he ran away and I ran after him, and said, "For God's sake come back, he has hurt the man," which he accordingly did—another policeman had just then arrived, about one step before us—before this occurred we had been drinking with the policeman—we had been in one public-house, and had a pot of beer outside another in Slater-street—I was the worse for liquor, but was not drunk—not so bad as my friend.

Cross-examined. Q. When the policeman, H 109, came up, did not Arundel immediately point to Fulligan and charge him with having assaulted him? A. Yes—he did not say anything at that time about the prisoner having touched him—I walked alongside of them all the way to the station—I was at the station when the prisoner produced his staff, and the inspector examined it—I heard Arundel charge the prisoner there with striking him—I do not know what the inspector said—I was so confused, seeing the man's head bleeding so—I cannot recollect whether the inspector asked if I had seen the prisoner strike Arundel, or whether I said I had not—I cannot say whether I did or did not.

MR. METCALFE. Q. You say when Fulligan was charged, you did not hear anything said about the police-constable; how near were you? A. We were all together—I did not keep by their side all the way to the station—I was at large; Fulligan was in custody.

THOMAS WRIGHT . I am horsekeeper at the yard where Arundel works—I saw him on the night of 12th April; the latest time at which I saw him was half-past 1 o'clock, at the time he left his work—he was solid and sober at that time—he is not a drunken man.

MR. SLEIGH called the following witnesses for the Defence:—

EDWARD HAZEL . I am a boiler-maker, and live at 55, Gloucester-street, Commercial-road—on the night in question I saw a scuffle between the prosecutor and two or three others in Swan-yard—I was on the other side of the street—they were all strangers to me—there were two or three men scuffling, they were the three witnesses who have been examined to-day, they were all scuffling on the pavement when I first saw them, they fell down—I walked several yards down Swan-yard, and a policeman came out of a gateway or turning—it was the prisoner; he walked towards them very sharply—I walked behind him—two or three parties ran away and left the prosecutor lying on the ground—the policeman lifted him up off the ground, and the blood was running from his head right down his face—the man asked for a cab two or three times—I went on, and went about my business—I saw another constable coming; he went up to them—when I had got about thirty or forty yards down the street I saw the other two men coming; they appeared to be in liquor; one of them said to the other, "There are two bobbies with him now"—I went home and saw no more—I did not see the prisoner take his staff out at all—I did not see it in his hand—I did not see him strike or use any violence to the prosecutor—I did not go to the police-court or to the station—I had been to Battle-bridge, King's-cross, that day to apply for work, and was coming from there when this happened.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Do you mean that you had been to Battle-bridge to apply for work at 3 o'clock in the morning? A. I had been on the Monday afternoon; I had waited till half-past 5, when the men came out, and then went home with a friend to supper—his name is Franklin, he lives at Somer's-town—after supper we were walking about Somer's-town—it might have been about 1 o'clock when I left him, or half-past; I then came on my way home—the turning I saw the policeman come from runs into Swan-yard; I don't know the name of the street—Swan-yard was not in my way home, but I saw the three men scuffling and went down; it was not much out of my way—there is a public-house there; they were on the other side, opposite to that—I stayed about three or four minutes at the corner of the street before I went towards them; I did not see any blow struck—I thought the man got the injuries by falling—Mitchell was scuffling with them—they all fell on the ground together—I do not see any other way in which the injury could have been done except by falling—two or three days after this, as I was coming along Whitechapel-road, I saw the prisoner, and I said to him, "How did you get on with that drunken man"—I did not know him more than I did any other policeman; I know a good many policeman; he asked me what I knew about it, and I told him what I had seen, and he asked me to come up; I gave him my address, and he came to my house—I have given my evidence to the attorney—I did not go before the magistrate—my wife does a little work at making coats and waistcoats—I have not had any work for about five weeks—the last work I did was repairing a boiler at a sugar-house—before that I was at work about ten weeks at a new sugar-house for Mr. Breen, and I left when that was finished—the two men who said something about the bobbies, were going towards the policeman when I saw them.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Although you were not examined at the police-court,

did you go there for the purpose of being examined? A. Yes; I was told that the magistrate was going to send the case for trial, and that it was no use examining me there.

JOSEPH HARDLEY (Policeman, H 109). On the night this matter happened I was on duty—I first saw the prisoner with the cabman, Arundel, leaning against the wall; he had been in the act of picking him up; he was not beating him or ill-using him; he was asking where he lived; he had not got his staff out; the cabman did not make any reply—nothing passed between them while I was there—I went up and said to the prisoner, "What is the matter?" he said, that Arundel and other parties had been fighting—I said, "The man is bleeding from the head"—he said, "They fought and fell"—Arundel said then, "Policeman, I wish you would fetch me a cab;"—whilst he was saying that, the other two men came along on the other side, and said, "Policeman, I wish you would give me a light"—upon that, Arundel said to me, "That is the man that assaulted me," pointing to Fulligan—I said, "Are you sure of that?" he said, "Yes"—I said, "If you are sure of that, will you charge him?"—he said, "Yes"—I then took him into custody, and I left the prisoner to assist Arundel to the station—he did not suggest that the prisoner had struck him or ill-used him previous to going to the station—at the station I put Fulligan into the dock, and stated the charge to the acting-inspector—Arundel was then present, and the prisoner and Mitchell also—the prosecutor then said, "I don't charge that man; I don't wish to press the charge; the constable has done it with his truncheon"—the prisoner said, "It was no such thing, you were fighting with the men and fell"—Mr. Oliver, the acting-inspector, asked the prisoner for his truncheon, and he took it into the charge-room, and examined it by the gas-lamp; he afterwards returned it to him; he did not make any remark—the prosecutor did not give the prisoner in charge that night—Mr. Oliver asked both Fulligan and Mitchell whether they had seen the prisoner strike the prosecutor, and they each distinctly said "No," in, the presence of four or five constables.

Cross-examined. Q. You saw the man first leaning against the wall you say? A. Yes; he was bleeding very much at that time—I saw a deal of blood over his face and clothes—I did not see the cuts, but I saw the blood running down his face—he was bleeding from the right side of the head and the left eye—no charge was made against the prisoner before we got to the station.

COURT. Q. When the prisoner pointed out Fulligan to you, did he say, "That is the man who first assaulted me?" A. I asked him the question twice; what he said was, "That is the man that assaulted me"—I did not go to Fulligan's house with the prisoner.

RICHARD OLIVER (Police-sergeant, H 19). I was acting-inspector at the station when Fulligan was brought there in custody by Hardley—the prosecutor, the prisoner, and Mitchell came in soon afterwards—it was about 3 in the morning of Tuesday, 12th April—Fulligan was charged by Arundel with committing an assault upon him—Arundel was bleeding very much from the head—I said, "What is this?"—he said, "I charge this man with assaulting me"—I stopped for a few minutes—"Well," I said, "I suppose you intend charging this man?"—he made no reply—he seemed to hesitate—I said, "Don't you intend charging this man"—he made no reply for a minute or two, and then he said, "This was done by the staff"—I said, "What staff?"—he said, "By the policeman's staff"—the prisoner was present, also Fulligan and Mitchell—I said, "Was Fulligan present, and

was the other party present, the whole of the time?" he said, "Yes"—I said, "Then, if the policeman struck you with the staff they must have seen it?"—he said, "Yes"—I then asked Fulligan and Mitchell if they were there the whole of the time—they said "Yes"—I said, "Then, if the policeman had struck the complainant with the staff you must have seen it?"—they said "Yes, had he struck we must have seen it"—I said, "You mean to say he did not strike him?"—they said, "He did not"—that was the answer of each of them—I then said to Dale, "I should like to see your staff"—he took it from his pocket and showed it to me—the prosecutor was bleeding at the head very much at the time; and, I think, had he been struck with the staff there would have been some marks of blood upon it—I examined it, and there were none, nor any indication that it had been used—on leaving the station the prosecutor said, "The policeman will hear further of this."

Cross-examined. Q. I suppose you are the prisoner's superior officer. A. Yes; one rank above—I have heard it stated before to-day that the prisoner was drinking with the two witnesses—I have not made any inquiries about that—several policemen were present at the station—Fulligan and Mitchell appeared as if they had been drinking, and Arundel also—I did not examine the wounds on his head—I sent for a surgeon; he examined and dressed them—I dare say he was nine or ten minutes attending to him—he was the assistant to the divisional surgeon—he is not here—he was not at the police court.

COURT. Q. When you examined the staff, did you look at the clothes of either Fulligan or Mitchell? A. I did not examine them closely—I did not see any marks of blood upon them.

GUILTY on the Second Count .— Confined Nine Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-464
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentencesImprisonment > penal servitude

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464. RICHARD BEDFORD ALLEN (52) , Feloniously forging and uttering a transfer of 875l. Consols; also, feloniously aiding in personating Frances Bedford at the said transfer; also, feloniously forging and uttering a transfer of 600l. Consols; also, feloniously aiding in personating Eleanor Ann Bedford at the said transfer, to all which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Ten Years' Penal Servitude.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-465
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentencesImprisonment > penal servitude

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465. DANIEL KESHAM (30) , Embezzling the sums of 4l. 2s., 5l. 1s., and 6l. 6s. 6d.; also, the sums of 13l. 15s., and 5l. 6s. of David Mitchell and another, to both which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Three Years' Penal Servitude.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-466
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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466. MARY ANN JANE FRANKHAM (27) was indicted for bigamy.

MR. CAARTEN conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE STOCK I live at 26, Pratt-street, Camdentown—I am a labourer—I know the prisoner—I was present on the 30th of May, 1852, at Beulah Chapel, Somer's-town, when the prisoner, whose name was Mary Ann Jane Cockle, was married to Walter Frankham, who I saw at the police court three weeks ago—I saw very little of him after his marriage.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Were you a friend of the woman? A. Not much of a friend of either of them—I cannot say that shortly after the marriage he enlisted and went to India—I have heard that she was left alone with her child and had to support herself for years—I cannot say that I know it.

PHCEBE FROST . I am a daughter of the last witness—I was present at the Beulah Chapel, Somer's-town, when the marriage was performed.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you know her before her marriage, and ever since? A. Yes—I went to Birmingham, and when I came back about three years ago I met her, and she told me that he had gone abroad and left her—she has had to support herself and child ever since, by her industry, and has conducted herself in a proper way.

JAMES COOPER . I live at 1, Munster-square, and am verger at St. Mary Magdalene Church—I was there on the 12th of January, 1858, and saw the prisoner married to George Pamphilon.

CHARLES GIFFORD (Policeman, S 228). On the 4th of April the prisoner was given into my custody by Walter Frankham, her husband—I took her to the station, the charge was told her and she denied having married the second time—on the following morning I took her to the police-court, and she said that she had married the second time, and her second husband was serving in India—that she did it on account of her first husband deserting her, and to support herself and child—I went to St. Mary Magdalene's, and there obtained this certificate (produced).

GUILTY .— Confined One Month.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-467
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

467. JOHN DAVIS ( ), Feloniously stabbing Joseph Geary, with intent to do him some grievous bodily harm.

MR. PLATT conducted the Prosecution.

JOSEPH GEARY . I am a bricklayer of 14, Ann's-place, Bethnal-green—on 13th March about half-past 12 at night I was in Boundary-street with Thomas Carrington, and met my wife and brother—as we went along I saw the prisoner standing on the step of a door—he said: "Oh, you are the b—r, are you!" and stabbed me in the neck directly—I saw a knife in his hand—I lost a great deal of blood and staggered up against the wall—Carrington went to the door to see what was the matter, and got stabbed through the nose immediately—I cannot swear positively who stabbed him, but I saw the party who stabbed me on the step of the door—he did not go from the place—I saw him stab Carrington through the nose and I saw the knife.

COURT. Q. Why did you say just now that you did not see him stabbed? A. This place confuses me, I am not used to it—he was stabbed through the nose and in the back, but I did not see that—I saw a great deal of blood come—I know nothing of the prisoner, he is quite a stranger to me—I had drunk a pot of beer during the night, and Carrington had had a small portion of what I had—neither of us gave any provocation to the prisoner, we never said a word—the prisoner's father-in-law was there—a person in the crowd, while the prisoner was there, called out to me, "Hold the b—r, and I will kick him!"—and he said in the prisoner's hearing" Give me the knife and I will kick the b—r!"—shortly after-wards a great crowd came round—after my friend was stabbed I saw the prisoner in the passage—I held him by the wrist with the knife in his hand—the wound was about half an inch wide and four inches long—I was taken to the hospital—I was not ill more than a week.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. What are you? A. A bricklayer—I have been in prison for a month for being drunk and disorderly—that is the only time—it was at Worship-street—I mean to say that I got a month for that—it was at Worship-street—there was no charge against me there

of quarrelling with a man or throwing him out of a window—I was saucy to a man, and that is what I got the month for; it was for nothing at all—I never was in prison before or in custody.

THOMAS CARRINGTON . I am a bricklayer, and lived at 13, Wilmer-gardens when this occurred—I left the public-house on the 13th of March about 10 minutes past 12 o'clock, with Geary, and as we were going along Shoreditch, Geary's brother said that a man knocked him down and attempted to stab him—I followed behind them, got up to Geary, and said, "What is the matter?"—he said, "I am stabbed!"—I said, "That be blowed," and immediately received a blow on my nose and one on my back—I went to the hospital and was there some time.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you very drank? A. No; I had only three pints of beer, and Geary had the same—there was nobody there at the time, but they soon came up—I do not know Davis—I did not see him at all—I know one man who picked me up, his name is Stamp, but he is not to be found—we had been to the Lodge of a society, but this was after we had left, and were in Boundary-street—I did not see Geary stabbed, nor did I see Geary when I was stabbed.

JAMES GEARY . I am a brother of Joseph Geary—I met him on this night at the Fountain, in Shoreditch, with Thomas Carrington—I trod on Mr. Fourdery's toe and begged his pardon—after that the prisoner punched me in the eye, which knocked me down, and then he said, "You b—y b—r, if you do not get up I will put this knife right into you!" and I saw a knife in his hand—my brother Joseph came up in a few minutes, and the prisoner ran to the Fountain—I said something to my brother, and then went to the back of St. George's Church, and saw the prisoner sitting on Mr. Fourdery's steps—he said, "You b—y b—r! I will rip this knife right into you—I saw a knife in his hand—Carrington came up just after and said, "Look out!" no sooner bad he said that than he said, I am stabbed!"—he bled dreadfully.

Cross-examined. Q. Had you been drinking some beer? A. None at all—I was not at the Lodge—I was coming from the entrance of the Fountain—it was there that I trod on Mr. Fourdery's toe—I did not try to kick him—I went round with my brother to give the prisoner in charge, and saw him sitting on a step smoking a pipe—there were not ten or twelve of us—I think Thomas Carrington had a dirty flannel jacket on—Mr. Fourdery did not strike—my brother did not strike the prisoner—I have never been charged with anything—I had not known the prisoner before—when I apologized to Mr. Fourdery the prisoner made no more to do, but gave me a punch, and I laid down, and he said, "You—y b—r, if you do not get up I will stab you"—I did not call out; I was within hearing of the bar of the fountain—I had been standing with a young girl outside the house in Shoreditch, but she had left me a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes when I was knocked down—I know a man named Hunt by bringing me beer at the Fountain when I have been playing at skittles—I have not threatened to stab him if he came up as a witness—I have not spoken a word to him since—the prisoner did not say to me that he would whip the knife into me; he said, "Here comes one of the b—y b—rs, and I will do him the same; I will stab the b—y b—r!" and I saw the knife in his hand—he said when he was sitting on the steps, "I will whip the knife into you"—nobody was present but me. (The witness deposition being read did not mention the prisoner's saying anything about a knife.)

JOHN TUCKER (Policeman, H 67.) About half-past 12 on this morning, I saw a crowd of persons in Boundary-street—I went up and saw Carrington and Geary both bleeding very much—I went to the house of the prisoner's father-in-law, Mr. Fourdery—I knocked at the door; and after about ten minutes I got in, and found the prisoner there—he was pointed out to me as the party that had done this—he was taken into custody by another constable—I went to the doctor's shop, and he said the witnesses were in such a state they had better be taken to the hospital—when I came back to the station, the prisoner and his father-in-law were there—the prisoner said he did not do it.

Cross-examined. Q. About how many people were there there? A. When I went up I should say from 150 to 200—I know the house where this Lodge meets—it was a very respectable house when I knew it two years ago.

THOMAS CHARLES LANGDON . I am one of the house-surgeons of St. Bartholomew's Hospital—on 31st March, between 1 and 2 in the morning, Geary and Carrington were brought there—I examined them; I found a cut on the side of Geary's neck, behind the ear, not at all serious—I did not make him an in-patient—he got well in the course of about a week or ten days—it was not very deep; there was no danger whatever at any time—the knife would be the most probable instrument to produce it—it was a clean cut—I attended to Carrington also.

MR. RIBTON called the following witnesses for the defence:

GEORGE FOURDERY . I am a poulterer, and live at 3, Boundary-street—I am the prisoner's father-in-law—he has been married to my daughter between four and five years—he is a clicker at a shoemaker's—he has always been a sober, industrious young man—I never knew him in any quarrel—I never knew him to stab anybody—I was at the Fountain public-house on this night—I saw James Geary there—he came running through the house in a stooping position, and trod very heavily upon my toe—I took him by the arm, and said, "Young man, you should mind where you are going to, for you have hurt my toe very much indeed"—he turned round, and said I might ask his behind, and go and b—myself, if I did not like it; and as we were going out at the door he tried to kick me on my person, but I crossed myself, and received two kicks on my knee—my son-in-law seeing that instantly struck him, and James Geary instantly turned round and walked away, without saying anything—I did not see Joseph Geary at all—my son-in-law and I then went home—he lives with me—we sat on the step of the door—my wife went to padlock the cellar up—we remained sitting there—he was never out of my sight; he never left my side—while we were there a mob of young men, I should say from ten to a dozen, came up—James Geary was among them, and Joseph also—he had a new flannel jacket on, and Carrington had a dirty flannel jacket on—the instant they came up, James Geary said, "Here are the b—s, and, God thunder me blind, we will kill them;" and at the instant Carrington struck me in the eye, and Joseph Geary struck my son-in-law as he was in a sitting position, and knocked him over—my wife was also struck; I cannot say who by—there was a great noise—I heard James Geary say, "Give it 'em, Harry; give it 'em Joe; I will knife, the b—s; let me get at them; I will kill the b—s"—I distinctly heard his voice—I have know him for the last two or three years—I was given in charge afterwards—young Geary came upstairs into the room where we were, and said, "I will charge this young man with stabbing my brother and his friend;" and the policeman said to me "You must come to the station as well"—I don't know what I was given in charge

for—I went to the station, and remained there—from the time I left the Fountain until the prisoner was given in charge, he was never out of my sight; not for a second—I did not see a knife in his possession that night—I never knew him to carry such a thing all the years I have known him.

Cross-examined by MR. PLATT. Q. When he was struck, did he do nothing in return? A. Not that I saw—I had no opportunity of seeing anything, for I was instantly struck over—it was ten minutes or a quarter of an hour afterwards that he was given into custody—I was there the whole time—I did not see these two men bleeding, or any one; I saw no wound at all—I saw pretty clearly all that took place on the step of the door, but not afterwards, for I was knocked over into the passage, and there it was dark—when James Geary trod on my toe at the Fountain, he did not beg my pardon; he hurt me very much indeed—after my son-in-law struck him, he left the house with me—he did not return to the house at all.

MR. RIBTON. Q. Was it rather dark when they came up to you on the steps? A. Very dark—the language they used was most obscene—as soon as I was knocked over, I made my way into my room, and my son-in-law with me, and the door was bolted—James Geary hurt me very much indeed when he trod on my toe; he trod on a kind of bunion which I have got—my son-in-law struck him outside the door for kicking me—he then went home with me—I followed him closely—he could not possibly have struck anybody with a knife at that time without my seeing it.

COURT. Q. Did you see anything after Carrington struck you? A. I saw Joseph Geary rush on to my son-in-law, and strike him; he was knocked down into the passage—they flocked into the passage as far as they could—my wife was in there, crying "Murder!"—they were fighting as much as they could to get at us—the door was closed after they were pulled out—they were pulled out by a person named Grosvenor—I examined the place closely next morning, but saw no blood whatever there.

ELIZABETH FOURDERY . My husband and son-in-law came up about a quarter-past 12 on this night, and sat down on the step of the door to smoke—I saw no knife in my son-in-law's hand, or in his possession, the whole evening—while they were sitting there James Geary came up, and eight or ten more close behind him—he used very bad language to my husband, and said, "This is the b—r; serve him out; go in Harry; give it him;" Carrington then came up, and struck my husband—I did not see my son-in-law struck—I was struck across the nose by Joseph Geary—Mr. Grosvenor pulled me out from them, or I should have been killed—I then got in, and bolted the street-door, and got upstairs and this stone came at my head through the window—my husband and son-in-law were then inside—I lifted up the window and holloed "Police!" three times, and it was then this stone came at me—I was dreadfully ill-used; my hand and arm were dreadfully hurt, and I was dragged about by the hair of my head till I was insensible—I have never been well since.

Cross-examined. Q. By whom was this done? A. By those that rushed in upon us; Joseph Geary in particular knocked me about shamefully, and so did the others; one hit me across the nose, and the other knocked me down insensible, because I holloed murder—I am sure those are the men that struck me (pointing to the two Gearys)—my husband was knocked over, and had no power to get up—I think my son-in-law must have crawled on in his hands and knees, for he had no power to rise up; the mob was so great—he did get inside—I did not see any man bleeding from the head; I was bleeding very much from the nose—I did not see the Gearys bleeding, or

hear anything said about stabbing—I can't say what occurred after I was knocked down; I saw that one (Carrington) ill-use my husband; that one was very tipsy—I saw no signs of any knife—I came down into the passage afterwards to find my cap, and I looked about and did not find any knife there.

MR. RIBTON. Q. Are you sure that your husband and your son-in-law came home together? A. Yes; they both came home, and sat on the step of the door.

COURT. Q. Where did you go? A. I came downstairs to lock the cellar door, and was standing there—they had been sitting there five or ten minutes before these people came up.

JAMES GROSVENOR . I live at 5, Camden's-head-gardens, Bethnal-green-road—on the night this occurred I was standing in my father's shop, nearly directly opposite No. 3, and I heard the cries of "Murder" about a quarter-past 12 o'clock—I ran out to see what was the matter, and saw two or three persons collected round the door of No. 3—I crossed over, and saw three men in the passage, and a woman—the prisoner was down in the corner, and two of the witnesses were striking at him, or over him—I pulled the woman out of the passage away from one of the witnesses—I took the prosecutor by the arm, and pulled him away, and he ran down the steps—I did not know that any one was stabbed until I came outside, for I heard no complaint in the passage of any one being stabbed, neither did I see any knife; afterwards I saw two of them bleeding—I saw one of those two in the passage striking at the prisoner—I did not observe that he was bleeding then; it was five minutes afterwards that I saw it, when the men ran out of the passage—I remained in the passage with the prisoner—I did not know at that time that any one was stabbed—I said to him, "You had better shut the door, and have no more bother"—he shut the door, and I came outside, and then I saw the men that had been stabbed, and not before—when I first went up, I suppose there were six or seven people there.

Cross-examined. Q. Who were the two men you saw bleeding? A. Those two (carrington and James Geary); that was the man that was in the passage striking at the prisoner—I did not see the man that was bleeding at the nose in the passage.

JANE GROSVENOR . I am sister-in-law of the last witness—on the night in question I heard a scream of murder, and saw a scrimmage, in the passage—I did not see the prisoner there, or Mr. Fourdery—I saw Geary scrimmaging in the passage—I saw no knife—there was no light in the passage.

JOHN BRYDGES . I live at 2 1/2, Boundary-street—on the night in question I saw a party of men come up; there might have been a half-a-dozen or ten—they came up to Mr. Feurdery's door—I saw Fourdery sitting on the step of the door—I did not know the prisoner; it was dark—Fourdery was talking to somebody; I could not tell who it was—I saw the party come up, and one of them said, "Bill, this is the b—r that hit me;" the other said, "Is it? the Lord thunder me blind, then, we will kill him;" and they rushed into the passage—I could not see into the passage; it was so dark—I shut my shutters and came to the door, and I saw one come tumbling down the steps—he got up and came on again—a few minutes afterwards they came out, and one said, "I am stabbed;" and another one said, "So am I"—I did not see any knife—I do not know the prisoner at all—I do not know which of the persons it was that used this language; there were so many of them—I could not swear to any of them.

Cross-examined. Q. Cannot you tell who were the two that you afterwards found bleeding? A. Yes, those two (Carrington and Geary), I am not quite sure, it was not the prisoner who called out, "We will kill them," I will not wear it was not—I heard somebody call it out, and afterwards found these two men bleeding.

MR. RIBTON. Q. Did you see the three men come our? A. Yes, I only saw one bleeding, and that was Geary—he was bleeding from the neck—after the door was shut I saw a young man standing on the step of the door without his cap, and he said he had a skid in his hand, and he would put it into some of the b—s—that was not the prisoner, he was inside, and the door was fastened—it was a taller person than the prisoner—I am sure of that, he had a red handkerchief on, and a coat.

ROBERT BEATTY . I am foreman to Mr. Bamberger, a shoe manufacturer, of King-Street, Snow-Hill—the prisoner has been in our employ for nearly two years and-a-half—he has always borne the character of a peaceable well-conducted young man, always ready to do a kindness, and never quarrel-some—I never knew of his carrying a knife, indeed, I have censured him for not doing so, because in our business a knife is requisite, a pocket-knife especially—he has often borrowed one of me, and I have said to him, "Why don't you carry one yourself?"—only a fortnight before this occurrence I lent him one, and he lost it for me, but I found it again, he had mislaid it in our warehouse.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you sure that, in consequence of your recommendation, he did not buy a knife? A. I can't say, but I do not believe he did.

Two other witnesses deposed to the prisoner's good character.


9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-468
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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468. WILLIAM FITZ (15) , Stealing 45 yards of cloth, value 6l. 15s. of Krozniski Wilhelms, in his dwelling-house, to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-469
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty

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469. GEORGE EDWARDS (27) , Feloniously forging and uttering a receipt for 5l., with intent to defraud, also a receipt for 4l. 19s.; to both of which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.

NEW COURT.—Tuesday, May 10th 1859.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Sixth Jury.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-470
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

470. GEORGE ADDAWAY (39) , Feloniously uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. ELLIS and BODKIN conducted the Prosecution.

ROBERT SAUNDERS (Policeman, H 55). I produce a certificate of conviction, from Mr. Straight's office (Read: "Central Criminal Court, April, 1857: George Add away, Convicted on his own confession of uttering counterfeit coin.—Confined eighteen Months.") The prisoner is the person—I was in the case.

MART-ANN-HARVEY. I am the wife of John Harvey, of Upton-place, Commercial-road. On 19th March the prisoner came to our shop for a piece of meat—it came to 10d., he gave me a shilling, I gave him twopence, and he went away—before he had scarcely left the door I tried it in a trier, found it was bad, and gave it to my husband. On 2d of April the prisoner came again for a piece of meat—the price was 1s. 10d.—he gave me a sixpence, fourpence in copper, and a two-shilling piece—I said "You have given me too much—"I had not a shilling in the till—I tried the two-shilling piece, and it was bad—I gave it to my husband, and he stopped, the prisoner—he was going away without his change, when I found it was bad—my husband stopped him and said, "This is too bad—twice in a fortnight."

Prisoner. Q. Did you call me back? A. Yes, because I thought you had given me a shilling too much, and during that time I had tried it.

JOHN HARVEY . I am the husband of the last witness, I got a shilling from her on 19th March—I bent it and threw it away—I saw the prisoner that day, I supplied him with the meat and my wife gave him the change. On 2d April I saw the prisoner again—he bought the meat of our man, I weighed it and told my wife to take 1s. 10d. I received a bad florin from my wife—I stop the prisoner and told him twice in a fortnight was rather too severe on me—I sent for a policeman—the prisoner said, "Let me see it myself,"—I said, "No, I shall keep it myself." I kept it till the policeman came, and gave it him.

WILLIAM PHILLIPS (Policeman, K 50). The prisoner was given into my custody—I said, "You are charged with passing a bad florin"—he said, "Let me look at it, if it is bad I know nothing about it." I found a good shilling about him—the sixpence and fourpence in copper were good.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin to the Royal Mint—this florin is counterfeit.

Prisoner. I had taken it that morning in change for a half-sovereign, in a public-house in Ratcliff-Highway—I was very drunk.

MARY-ANN HARVEY (Re-examined). He appeared to be tipsy.

JOHN HARVEY (Re-examined). It was all sham, when he was at the station he was sober.

WILLIAM PHILLIPS (Re-examined). He was only shamming—he was sober.

Prisoner. If when I went in for the meat I had known what I was about, I should not have given the two-shilling piece and waited for my change—I should not have put down the 2s. 10d., I work hard for my living.

GUILTY .— Confined Two Years.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-471
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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471. ELIZABETH CAMPBELL (29), was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. ELLIS AND BODKIN conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE HILL (City Policeman, 315). I produce a certificate—(Read: "Central Criminal Court, August, 1857: Elizabeth Campbell, convicted, on her own confession, of unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.—Confined Six Months.") The prisoner is the person.

JAMES HUNTER THOMPSON . I am a chemist, and live in Whitechapel-road—on Saturday evening, 2d April, the prisoner came to my shop between 7 and 8 o'clock in the evening she asked for two ounces of salts—I served her—they came to three-halfpence—she paid me a half-crown—I gave two shillings and fourpence-halfpenny change—I put the half-crown in the till—I had no silver there, but the two shillings I had given her—in about

two minutes after she left, I looked in the till, and found the half-crown and no other silver—I examined it, found it was bad, marked it, and gave it to the officer.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. When did you see the prisoner in charge? A. On 8th April, she was brought out of the cell and shewn to me—the inspector did not say "Here is the woman that passed a bad half-crown—he said, "Should you know the woman"—I said, "Yes." I had two bad half-crowns which I had received of another female before—when the prisoner was brought out and shewn to me, I did not express any hesitation at all—the prisoner said nothing when I said, "That is the woman that passed me the bad half-crown on the 2d April."

MR. BODKIN. Q. Was it in her presence that you said, "That is the woman that passed the bad half-crown on the 2d of April?" A. Yes—she did not say anything; but when before the magistrate, she said, "You have sworn falsely."

THOMAS FAIRFAX . I am a dairyman, and live in Prescott-street, White-chapel—on 8th April, the prisoner came about half-past six o'clock in the evening for half a quartern loaf and a quarter of a pound of butter—they came to eightpence halfpenny—she offered me a half-crown—I said, "This is a bad one; where did you get it?"—she said, where she worked—I asked her where she worked, and she said, "Any where"—I gave her in custody, and gave the half-crown to the constable.

JAMES WILLIAMS (Policeman, H 163). I took charge of the prisoner at Mr. Fairfax's—I received this half-crown from him—I asked the prisoner, if she knew she was passing a bad half crown—she said, "Yes, I do; I can get plenty more where that came from"—I took her to the station—the inspector asked her name and address—she gave her name, but refused her address—he asked her how she got her living—she said, "By passing bad coin"—he said, "You are very plain in your explanation"—she said "Yes; open confession is good for the soul"

Cross-examined. Q. Did you give her any caution? A. No—the inspector did not talk with her in a joking sort of way—it was not the inspector who said, "Open confession is good for the soul," it was the prisoner—the conversation was not kept up in a chafing sort of way—she did not seem joking;—she seemed saucy—she said seriously, that she got her living by passing bad coin.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These two half-crowns are bad.

GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-472
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

472. JOHN FRANCIS, (33), a black, was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. ELLIS and BODKIN conducted the Prosecution.

RICHARD RYE (Police-Sergeant, R 5). I produce a certificate—(Read: "Central Criminal Court, August, 1858; John Francis, convicted of having counterfeit coin in his possession, with intent to utter it.—Confined One Year." The prisoner is the person.

GREGORY POWELL . I am a cook's-mate at the Strangers' Home, at Limehouse—I know the prisoner—on 18th April, he delivered me four six-pences—he said, "Take these four sixpences to different shops and get some tobacco, and we will divide the money"—I said the money was bad, I would not take it—he said, "It is nothing to you; if they come to know it is bad money they will cut it, and break it, and bend it, and give if you;

they will do nothing to you; it is nothing to you"—I refused to take them. On the Wednesday afterwards, he gave me four more sixpences—he told me to buy tobacco with them—I gave them to Mr. Chapman—the prisoner asked me afterwards about these sixpences—he said, "Where is the tobacco and change"—I said the money was bad—I showed him one of the six-pences—I bent it with my mouth, and said it was bad—on the Saturday, he gave me two shillings and two sixpences—I was to go to the shop and buy some tobacco, and the money was to be divided between him and me—I gave that money to Mr. Chapman also—the prisoner spoke to me in English—he understands it.

Prisoner. I gave him no money—it was Ram Sammy that gave him the money.

Witness. No; you gave me the money, and you gave Ram Sammy money too.

JOHN CHAPMAN . I am messenger at the Stranger's Home, at Limehouse—on the 18th April, the last witness made a communication to me about money, and I gave him instructions what to do—on 20th April, he brought me these four sixpences (produced)—I afterwards made a search in a box belonging to Ram Sammy—on the Saturday afterwards, I received from Powell two shillings and two sixpences, which the constable has—on Thursday evening, the 22d, I saw the prisoner leave the Home about half-past seven o'clock in the evening—I saw him meet Ram Sammy—they went together into a house, and remained some time—they both came out together, and Ram Sammy went to the Sailors' Home—he came out, and went to Mrs. Koch's baker's shop—I afterwards went in there, and Mrs. Koch gave me a bad shilling. On the 24th, the prisoner and Ram Sammy were brought before Colonel Hughes, the secretary, and Powell and Mrs. Koch were present—when they were all present, the Colonel asked Ram Sammy where he got the shilling that he passed to Mrs. Coates—he pointed to the prisoner and said, "That man gave"—the prisoner made no reply to that—I then produced some sixpences that I found in Ram Sammy's possession, and the Colonel asked him where he obtained them—he pointed to the prisoner, and again said, "That man gave"—the prisoner made no reply—I then produced the two shillings and two sixpences that I had that morning received from Powell—the Colonel asked Powell where he got them—he said he got them from Francis—I went out at that time, and I don't know whether the prisoner made any reply—a constable was called in, and the prisoner and Ram Sammy were given in custody—I marked the two shillings and the two sixpences, and gave them to the constable—the prisoner had been at the Home ten or twelve days—he speaks English and understands it.

Prisoner. They are all telling stories about me—I don't know what they are talking about.

THOMAS CLIFF (Policeman, K 355). The prisoner and Ram Sammy were given into my custody at the Sailors' Home on 23d April—I received a shilling from Colonel Hughes in the presence of Chapman—I searched Ram Sammy, and found on him these three counterfeit shillings, wrapped up separately—I found nothing on the prisoner—I produce two shillings and two sixpences, which I received from Chapman.

MARY KOCH . My husband keeps a shop in Ebury-place, Commercial-road—on 21st April Ram Sammy came for a pound of bread and a quartern of flour—they came to sevenpence-halfpenny—he gave me a shilling, which I put in the till—I had one shilling in the till, which was a new one, but

the one he passed was different altogether—I gave him fourpence-halfpenny change, and he left the shop—Mr. Chapman came in in two minutes afterwards—I then looked in the till, and saw the shilling which I had taken from Ram Sammy—it was bad—I slightly bent it, and showed it to Chapman—I then put it by separately—I kept it till Saturday, and gave it to Colonel Hughes—the officer had it afterwards—this is it.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This shilling produced from the baker's shop is bad—these papers each contain four sixpences, two of the date of 1846, and two of 1848—they are bad, and from the same moulds—these two shillings are bad, and from the same mould as the first shilling—this other paper contains three bad shillings, all from the same moulds as the others.

Prisoners Defence. I never had the money in my possession—I gave none of them.


9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-473
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Not Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

473. JOHN FRANCIS was again indicted with RAM SAMMY for unlawfully having counterfeit coin in their possession.

MESSRS. ELLIS and BODKIN conducted the Prosecution.

MART KOCH . On 21st April Ram Sammy came to my shop and bought some bread and flour—he paid me with a shilling, which I put in the till—there was one shilling besides in the till, quite a new one—I gave him change—he went out of the shop, and Mr. Chapman from the Home came in in about two minutes—I looked in the till—I knew the shilling I had received from Ram Sammy—I examined it, and found it bad—I bent it, and afterwards gave it to Colonel Hughes.

Ram Sammy. I gave her a shilling—I did not know it was bad.

JOHN CHAPMAN . On the evening of 21st April I recollect Francis leaving the house—Ram Sammy left soon after—they went into a house and stayed till 10 o'clock at night—they came out together, and went into the Stranger's Home—Ram Sammy then went out, and went into Mr. Koch's, the baker's shop—when he came out I went in, and Mrs. Koch showed me a bad shilling—on the 23d both the prisoners were brought before Colonel Hughes—Mrs. Koch and Powell were present—the Colonel asked Ram Sammy where he obtained the shilling which he had pawed at the baker's shop—he pointed to Francis, and said, "That man gave"—Francis made no reply—I searched Ram Sammy's box, and found a pair of trowsers, and in the pocket of them four sixpences—Colonel Hughes asked him how he came by them, and he immediately pointed to Francis, and said, "That man gave."

Ram Sammy. I had not seen the money. Witness. I am sure it was his box.

THOMAS CLIFF (Policeman, K 355). I produce a counterfeit shilling which I received from Colonel Hughes on 23d April—I took Ram Sammy in custody—I found on him three counterfeit shillings, in the fob of an underneath pair of trowsers—they were wrapped in separate paper—I received from Chapman two counterfeit shillings and two sixpences.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These are all bad—keeping the coin separately keeps it from rubbing—by being circulated it rubs off.

Ram Sammy's Defence (written). "I gave Mr. Sutman two shillings to keep for me on the Tuesday before Good Friday—he gave me one shilling back on the Thursday—I went into a baker's shop with the shilling Mr. Sutman gave me, to buy some bread and flour—the woman in the shop

took my shilling, and gave me fourpence-halfpenny change—I went home—on the Saturday morning afterwards she said she gave me change for a bad shilling which I gave her on the Thursday when I got my bread and flour—I had been servant in the Sailors' Home fifteen months—the woman well knew I was servant there—I never had any bad money, and never was in charge of the police—I was cleaning a window at the Sailors' Home when John Francis came up to me and gave me four sixpences in a paper to keep for him until 4 o'clock—I put them in my box until he called for them—Mr. Sutman took the four sixpences out of my box—I never saw him when he went to my box.—On Good Friday evening I went to Lime-house Church at 6 o'clock, and left about 8—about half-past 8 John Francis came to my home and asked me to take charge of three shillings for him—they were wrapped in paper—I asked him if it was good money—he said it was, and I put it into my pocket—I then went to bed—Mr. Sutman called next morning when I was in bed and said master wanted to see me—I went to the office to the master, and Colonel Hughes asked me who gave me this money—I told him Francis did to keep for him—then the master sent for a policemen, when he said, 'You have more bad money'—I then gave him the paper that Francis gave me the night before to keep for him, when there was three shillings in it—when I was given in charge of the police I felt very much ashamed, as I did not know anything of there being any bad money given me by Francis—I am entirely innocent of having any bad money to my knowledge—Mr. Sutman went to the baker's shop and asked, 'Did this man come to your shop to buy flour and bread?'—she said 'Yes'—Mr. Sutman asked her to look her money over, and she had one bad shilling."

FRANCIS— GUILTY .— Four Years' Penal Servitude.


9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-474
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

474. ELIZA M'DONALD, (19) , Feloniously uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. ELLIS and CLERK conducted the Prosecution.

JAKES GALL (Policeman, N 276). I produce a certificate—(Read: "Central Criminal Court, February 9, 1858; Eliza M'Donald, convicted of unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin—Confined Four Months.")—I was a witness in the case—the prisoner is the person then tried.

Prisoner. It is false. Witness. I am sure she is the person then tried—I had her in custody.

EMANUEL TILLEY . I keep a coffee-house at Highgate, called the Seven Sisters—I recollect the prisoner coming on 21st April, about 4 o'clock in the afternoon, for a cup of tea—the price was twopence—she offered in payment a shilling—I gave it her back, and told her it was bad—she then gave me a two-shilling-piece—I told her that was worse than the other—she then gave me a good half-crown, and I gave her two shillings and four-pence change—I gave her in custody, with the florin and shilling.

Prisoner. I gave him the shilling, and he went into the parlour.

Witness. I went into the next room—I did not put the florin in my pocket—I did not put it down anywhere—I did not pull some shillings out of my pocket in my hand—I had to get change for the half-crown of my wife—I had no silver in my pocket.

WILLIAM LYAS (Policeman, S 330). I took the prisoner in custody at last witness's house on 21st April—I received from him this florin and this

shilling—I asked the prisoner where she got them, and Her name, and where she lived—she told me I might find it out—I asked her what her occupation was—she told me I might find it out—she was searched, and two shillings and fourpence was found on her, the change of the half-crown.

Prisoner. I was so agitated I could hardly speak to him.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These are both bad.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-475
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

475. WILLIAM JONES alias James Coleman, (44), Was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. ELLIS and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

ALFRED CARTER (City Policeman, 48). I produce a certificate of conviction. (Read: "Central Criminal Court, June, 1857; William Jones, convicted of unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin. Confined Nine Months). I was present—the prisoner is the person.

THOMAS FRANCIS TARRY . I am warehouseman to Mr. Barclay of Bucklersbury—on 27th or 28th April the prisoner came for 3s. worth of stamps—he offered me a bad half-crown and a good sixpence—I did not discover that the half-crown was bad while he was in the shop, but I did the moment I was going to put it in the till—I had not put it down—I then put it in a private till of my own, which had no other money in it—no one had any access to that till—I kept it there till I gave it to the officer about Wednesday last—on that day the prisoner came again for 3s. worth of stamps—he gave me a bad half-crown and a good sixpence—I recollected him before he asked for anything—I slightly bent the half-crown and returned it to him, and told him it was bad—he gave me a good one in exchange—I told him it was not the first bad half-crown he had passed—he said it was nonsense, and he would go to the office—I showed the other half-crown to him—he said it was all nonsense, and he should go back to the office and ascertain—he went away, and Mr. Mason went after him—I was present when the prisoner was searched at the station—he refused to give his name or address—I gave the half-crown to the officer—this is it—I know it by its being marked—I believe this is the other half-crown, by its being slightly bent—I bent it with my thumb.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. There are two half-crowns? A. Yes; the first was uttered on Wednesday or Thursday, the 27th or 28th of April—that was this old one of George the Third—I believe there was no one in the shop—I am sure this was the first half-crown that was given to me—this figure of 2 was put on it in my presence that it should not be exchanged—I believe I had seen the prisoner many times before, at all events on two occasions—it remained in the private till about a week, from Wednesday till Wednesday—no one had access to that till but myself—Mr. Mason and Mr. Clegg attend to the shop—they had not access to that private till—I did not think the half-crown was bad at first—this is the one that was offered the next time—I was then a little more vigilant—I tried this one on the counter—I bent it with my thumb—on this occasion I believe I showed the prisoner the first one—I held it up to him—he said, "Nonsense," or "Not so"—he was not given in custody—he was allowed to leave the warehouse, and Mr. Mason followed him and gave him in custody—I have not had bad money myself knowingly—I never happened to find a bad shilling in my pocket.

ROBERT MASON . I am clerk to Mr. Barclay of Bucklersbury—on

Wednesday, 4th May, I was in the warehouse—the prisoner came in for some stamps—I did not see him come in—the first I noticed was hearing the last witness say, "This is a had half-crown"—and he said, "It is not the first I have had from you"—he produced the other half-crown, and said, "You gave me this some days ago"—I think he named the day—I had seen the prisoner at Mr. Barclay's before—I can't say how long before, but I was familiar with his coming in and out—I followed the prisoner from the shop to George-street, behind the Mansion House—he then went to Change-alley. As we were going along, a person made several attempts to speak to the prisoner—I saw him several times as we were going along between Bucklersbury and Change-alley—he crossed us several times, and went round and met the prisoner—I was two or three yards from the prisoner—the other man did not speak to the prisoner—he made signs; and I went up to him and said, "It is no go"—when we were in Change-alley, the prisoner said to me, "What is it o'clock?"—I said, "I don't know"—at that time there was a sound as of money falling on the stones—there was no other person standing near us—we were quite alone—the prisoner was standing over a grating at that time—after I heard the chink, the prisoner left Change-alley and walked by the side of the Exchange—I saw an officer and gave him in custody—I then went with the officer to the place where I had heard the chink of money—I pointed out the grating to the officer—I looked down and saw the half-crown lying down the grating—I went in the house and got the housekeeper to get the half-crown—I gave it to the officer—I was close behind the housekeeper when she picked it up—I never lost sight of it—I then went back to the warehouse—I there saw another half-crown taken from the till, and also a florin—I did not receive them; they were given to the officer—I think Mr. Parry gave him the half-crown, and Mr. Clegg the florin.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you seen the prisoner? A. Yes, several times—I am not aware of having seen him on the first occasion—I saw him on the next, Wednesday—that second half-crown was given back to the prisoner, and he gave a good one—he took the bad one away with him—I suppose that was the one that tumbled down the grating—I did not go and have a glass of beer with the prisoner.

GEORGE CLEGG . I am assistant to Mr. Barclay—On 30th April, the prisoner came to our shop for 3s. worth of receipt stamps—he gave me a good shilling and a bad two-shilling piece—the good shilling I put in the till, and the florin I retained in my hand—I was not quite certain it was bad—it was a very dark day, so I retained it in my hand—directly afterwards I took it in the counting-house, and asked what they thought of it—I kept it in my hand, and afterwards put it in a drawer—I handed it over to the constable when he came on 4th May.

Cross-examined. Q. How often had you seen the prisoner? A. I had never seen him before he came for the stamps—this is the florin he gave me—I know it by its being smooth at the bottom, and wider at the rim—I was not certain it was bad—I was pretty certain—I had it in my hand, and took it in the counting-house and showed it to a gentleman, and then put it in a drawer—I did not put it in my pocket at all—that drawer was open to all the clerks—any one could go there—it is not kept for money—that is the only piece of money that I am aware of that ever was in that drawer—I took it out once or twice—I showed it to Mr. Tarry once—he looked at it, but he did not take hold of it that I am aware of—he took my word that it was bad—it remained there several days—all the clerks had access

to that drawer, but they were not aware that the florin was there—Tarry knew it was there—on 4th May the prisoner did not say that he did not know it was bad—he made no observation—I hare unfortunately had bad money, but not above a shilling at a time—I have found a bad shilling in my pocket.

COURT. Q. How many persons might go to that drawer? A. Four or five, but there was no occasion for their going to it.

JAMES BUCKINGHAM (City Policeman, 418). On Wednesday, 4th May, the prisoner was given into my custody by Mr. Mason. I went with him to a grating, and a female picked up a half-crown, and gave it to Mr. Mason—this is it—it is bent—after that I took the prisoner to Mr. Barclay's ware-house—I received another half-crown from Mr. Tarry—this is it marked 2, the one picked up from the grating is marked No. 1—I received this counterfeit florin, marked No. 3, from Mr. Clegg when the prisoner was present—Mr. Clegg said, "This is the florin I received from this man"—I did not hear the prisoner make any observation—he was close to me—I searched him, and found on him a good half-crown, a sixpence, threepence in copper, and some stamps—I asked him his name and address, and he refused to give them.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These three coins are all bad.

GUILTY .**— Ten Years Penal Servitude.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-476
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

476. JAMES BURCHALL (22), alias John Stone, was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. ELLIS AND POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

EDWIN TOWERSEY . I am a messenger at the Telegraph Office—I was a policeman—I produce a certificate—(Read: Central Criminal Court, Feb. 7, 1857; James Burchall, convicted on his own confession of tittering counterfeit coin. Confined One Year)—the prisoner is the person—I was the officer in the case—I had him in custody.

WILLIAM PAYZE . I assist at the Phenix public-house in Brick-lane, Spitalfields. On the 18th or 19th April the prisoner came about a quarter-past eleven o'clock at night—he asked for half a pint of porter—I served him—it came to a 1d.—he gave me in payment a shilling—I tried it with the trier, and it bent—I went into my master, and gave him the shilling—he was in the skittle-ground—I came with him to the bar of the public-house—the prisoner was then gone—I had not given him his change. On 28th April he came between three and four o'clock, and asked for half a pint of porter—he gave me a sixpence—I examined it—it was bad—I called my master, Mr. Hawkes, and said to him, in the prisoner's presence, "That is the man that gave me the shilling before"—the prisoner did not say anything to that—I gave the sixpence to my master—he sent for a constable, and gave the prisoner into custody—I recognised the prisoner when he came on Thursday the 28th—he had been three times to the house.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. Did the prisoner hear what you said, that he was the man who gave the shilling? A. Yes; I was by the counter, he was on the other side, about a yard and a half away—he remained outside while I went to my master with the sixpence—there was no one else in the bar—I know it was on the 18th or 19th when he came first—I kept an account of the time because we expected him again—he had given a sixpence first to my master, but I was not there—my master did not tell me to make a note of the day—when the prisoner gave me the sixpence, I went

in the bar parlour to my master, and when I came back the prisoner was waiting.

HENRY HAWKES . I manage the Phenix public-house—I remember the prisoner coming first to my house three weeks previous to the time when he gave the sixpence on the 28th April—I served him with half a pint of beer—he gave me a sixpence—I tried it, and told him it was bad, and if he came again I would lock him up—he said he did not know it—I let him go, and he went away, not paying for the beer—when he was gone I broke a piece out of the sixpence, and laid it on a shelf—I put the piece on the fire, and it melted—I gave the other part to the constable—on 18th or 19th April my lad gave me a shilling in the skittle-ground—I came to the bar, and I found the man was gone—I broke a piece out of the shilling, put it on the fire, and gave the other piece to the constable—on 28th April I was in the bar, and the prisoner came in and gave the sixpence to the lad—when the prisoner saw me he turned, but I watched him, and saw him give the sixpence to the lad—the lad bent it, and I went round the counter, and laid hold of the prisoners collar—the lad said, "This is the man that gave me the shilling the other night"—the prisoner said, "No, it is quite wrong"—I had hold of his collar—he said, "Don't lock me up; I will give you a shilling for the half pint of beer if you will allow me to go"—"No," I said; "now I will lock you up—three times you have been to our house and passed bad money here."

Cross-examined. Q. Have you any reason to remember the day of the month when the shilling was uttered? A. I could not say the day, but I believe it was the 18th or 19th—the first time he gave me a sixpence, I found that was bad, and told him of it—he said he did not know it—I asked him if he had any more money, and he said "No"—I told him I would let him go that time, but if he came again I would lock him up—I am sure he is the same person—I left the pieces lying on the shelf till I gave them to the constable—it was a little shelf not locked up—anybody could get to it—the boy tried the sixpence in the detector, and as he was coming to me I went out of the bar parlour—he shoved open the door—I was inside the bar parlour—I went out and round the counter, and the prisoner was standing there—I was present at the station when the prisoner was searched—a shilling and a farthing were found on him—he had offered the shilling to let him go.

JOHN BLAKE (Policeman, H 122). I was sent for on 28th April, and the prisoner was given in my custody—I received from Mr. Hawkes a counterfeit sixpence, a piece of a shilling, and a piece of a sixpence—I searched the prisoner at the station—I found on him a shilling and a farthing.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This sixpence is bad—these fragments of a shilling and sixpence are bad—a good shilling or sixpence would not break so easily, nor melt so easily.

GUILTY .— Confined Two Years.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-477
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

Related Material

477. ALICE McKENZIE (20), was indicted for a like offence.

MR. POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS CARR (Policeman, B 206). I produce a certificate (Read: "Central Criminal Court, December, 1857; Alice McKenzie, convicted on her own confession of uttering counterfeit coin. Confined Fifteen Month")—I was present, the prisoner is the person.

JOHN FRANCIS HONE . I am a perfumer, and live in Leadenhall-Street. On 30th March the prisoner came to my shop and asked for a dressing-comb—the price was 6d.—she was served by my shopwoman, Eliza Worrall—I saw

her in the shop—after she was gone Eliza Worrall gave me a bad half-crown—I marked it, and placed it in a purse at the back of the till—I am sure the prisoner is the person I saw her again on the Thursday in the following week—I saw her come in, and I recognised her—I saw her served—she asked for a portfolio—she explained that she meant a purse, and a porte-monnai was shown her—the price was 8d.—she offered to pay with a half-crown—Eliza Worrall took it up and showed it to me—I found it was bad—I told the prisoner, and told her that she had been there the week previous, and I should then give her in custody—she said she had not been there—I sent for a policeman and gave her in custody, with both the half-crowns.

ELIZA WORRALL . I am assistant to the last witness—On Wednesday, 30th March, the prisoner came and asked for a dressing-comb, I served her—it came to 6d.,—she paid with a half-crown—I gave her change, and kept the half-crown in my hand till I gave it to Mr. Hone—On Thursday, 7th April, I saw the prisoner again at the shop—she purchased a purse which came to 8d., she produced in payment, a half-crown—I saw it was bad and gave it to Mr. Hone—the prisoner is the same person who came on the 30th March, and on the 7th April.

Prisoner. Q. How can you swear to me—what do you know me by? A. I knew you as soon as you came in the shop—I recognised you as having been there on the 30th March, and when I saw you again, that other fact came into my mind at once.

EDWIN SEATON (City policeman, 528). On Thursday, 7th April, I was called to Mr. Hone's shop—the prisoner was given into my custody, on a charge of passing bad half-crowns—she said she had passed this one, but she knew nothing about the one previous—I received these two half-crowns from Mr. Hone—the prisoner was searched at the station, and twopence was found on her.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These half-crowns are both bad, and from the same mould.

Prisoner's Defence. I said I bad not been in the shop before, and that last time I did not know the half-crown was bad.

GUILTY.— Judgment Respited.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-478
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

478. JAMES WRIGHT (35) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. LILLEY and THOMPSON conducted the Prosecution.

REBECCA WILLIAMS . On 31st March I was barmaid at the Rising Sun, Bethnal-green—the prisoner came on that day, about 2 o'clock in the afternoon—he called for a pint of beer—and he produced a half-crown—I tried it in the detector, and found it was bad—it bent very easily—I told him it was bad, and asked him where he got it—he said he had received it for helping to load some dung—he asked me to give it him back again, I gave it him, and he left without paying for the beer—I saw the prisoner again in about half an hoar in custody.

Prisoner. I am not the man. Witness. I am sure he is the man.

JAMES MARAM . I keep the Anchor-and-Hope beer-shop, Bethnal-green. On 31st March the prisoner came to my house a little after 2 o'clock—he called for a pint of beer, and tendered in payment a shilling—my son-in-law was standing by me, and I said to him, "This is a bad one I think"—he looked at it, and gave it me back, and said, "I think it is a good one"—I gave the prisoner change, he drank the beer and left—and when he was gone I felt the shilling again, and said, "No, I am sure it is a bad one"—

my son felt it, and ran after the prisoner and brought him back—I said, "the shilling you gave me was bad, give me back the change"—he gave it me—I asked him where he got it—he told me he helped a man to load a load of dung, and he gave him the shilling for his work—I said, "Who was the man?"—he said he did not know—I said, "Well, if you don't know the man, don't you know where you loaded the dung up from"—he said yes, he could show me that—and my son went with him, but after going about fifty yards he returned, and said he could not tell—at that time two men passed by in a cart, and they said to him, "Holla, old chap, how did you get on with your bad half-crown?" I asked my son to go after the men and ask them what they meant, and they said they had just come out of the Rising-Sun, where the man came in with the bad half-crown, and they pitied him, and said, "Poor fellow, let him go and see if he can find the man." By this time a policeman had come up, and I gave the prisoner in charge.

ALFRED ROGERS . I am the son-in-law of the last witness—I was at his house on 31st March, when the prisoner came in—I saw my father receive a shilling from the prisoner—in the first instance I thought it was good—my father-in-law gave change, and the prisoner left—I took the shilling from my father-in-law's hand, tried it, and found it was bad—I ran after the prisoner—he was walking, not very fast—after calling to him six or seven times he turned and saw me close to him—I brought him back to the beer-shop, a little conversation passed between us, and we said we would send for a policeman—he said a man gave him the shilling for loading a load of dung—we asked where he loaded the dung, and he said he would show us—I went out with him for the purpose of being shown the place, and after we got about sixty yards he made a stop, he seemed to be confused and said, "I don't think it was this way, I am a stranger about London, I don't think I can find it." We went back, and two men passed in a cart and called out, "Holla, old fellow, how did you get on with your bad half-crown?—I fetched a constable, and the prisoner was given into custody—we took him to the Rising Sun—the shilling was given to the policeman in my presence.

WILLIAM STRETCH (Policeman, K 448). I took the prisoner, and produce a counterfeit shilling which I got from Mr. Maram—I went to the Rising Sun, and Rebecca Williams told me that the prisoner had been there twenty minutes or half-an-hour before, and called for a pint of porter, in payment for which he tendered a bad half-crown—the prisoner said he obtained it for helping to load a load of dung—I searched him but found nothing on him.

Prisoner. I said to the woman, "You are wrong, you never saw me before." Witness. No; you said you could not help it, you took it for loading a load of dung—and after that you said you had never been in the house before.

COURT. Q. How was it he said so? A. I asked him what he meant by it, and he said, "I can't help it; I took it for loading a load of dung"—it was before that, when Rebecca Williams said he had passed a bad half-crown, that he said he had never been in the house before.

Prisoner. I never was in the house before I went in with him.

COURT. to RBECCA WILLIAMS. Q. Did you hear him say he had received it for loading a load of dung? A. Yes; and he told the policeman the same thing—the two men who were in the cart were in my house when the prisoner came in, about two o'clock.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This shilling is bad.

Prisoners Defence. I loaded a load of dung, and a man gave me a shilling—I went into this man's house, and called for a pint of beer—I gave the shilling—he said it was bad—I said I did not think it was; I did not

know—he gave it to his son-in-law—he said it was good, and he gave me change—I went on, and as I was going along the street, his son-in-law came out and said, u That is a bad shilling you gave my father"—I said, "I will go back and see"—I went back and gave the change.

GUILTY Confined Six Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-479
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

479. HENRY BAKER (23), was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS LILLEY and THOMPSON conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM HUMPHREYS . My father keeps the Apple-tree public-house in Bowling-green-street, Clerkenwell—I assist him—on 4th April the prisoner came to our house, and some other persons with him—one of his companions called for some gin—I served him—he paid me with a half-crown—I put it in the till, and gave him change—there was no other half-crown there—the prisoner then said, "This is not enough; we will have another quartern, and I will pay for that"—I served the prisoner with a second quartern, and he paid for it with a half-crown—I bit that with my teeth, and found it was bad—I went to show it to a gentleman, and when I came back, the prisoner and his companions were all gone—I had not given change for the half-crown—I then looked in the till at the other half-crown, and I found that was bad also—I went to the door, and saw the prisoner passing by an oyster-stall—I laid hold of him, and showed him the money—a policeman came up, and I gave the prisoner in charge with the two half-crowns—I am sure that the man who gave the first half-crown was in company with the prisoner—they were talking together—they did not come in the house together—I had seen the others waiting for some person to come out of the House of Correction—our house is opposite there.

ZEKIEL LAMPKIN (Policeman, G 114). I took the prisoner, and I received two half-crowns from the last witness—I searched the prisoner, and found on him two fourpenny pieces and fivepence-halfpenny in copper, all good.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These half-crowns are both bad, and from the same mould.

Prisoner's Defence. I am innocent—the man who gave the first half-crown gave me the other.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

OLD COURT.—Wednesday, May 11th, 1859.

PRESENT—The Right Hon. the LORD MAYOR; Mr. Justice CROWDER;


Knt. Ald; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.

Before Mr. Baron Channell and the Third Jury.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-480
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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480. MARY ANN POACHER (40) , Feloniously stabbing and wounding William Poacher, with intent to do him grievous bodily harm.

MR. METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM POACHER . I live at 32, Silver-street, Golden-square, and am a messenger at Verrey's, in Regent-street—the prisoner is my wife; we have been married eight years—we have lived a very uncomfortable life for the last three years—on Sun day-week last, about half-past 1 at night, I came home and found Mr. Byrne at the street door—he let me in, and I went up-stairs

—I was liquor at the time—on my opening the door, I saw my wife on the bed in the room—there was no light in the room—there is a gas-lamp outside which reflects into the room—when I entered, my wife said, "You wretch! you have come home at a pretty time, past four o'clock in the morning—I said, "No, Mary, it is not so late as that; it is very little after one"—she then struck me on the side of the head, and I fell on the bed—I was close to the bed—I then rose again, and received another blow in the face—I placed ray hand to my face, and found blood streaming down, and called out for help—Mr. Byrne came up with a candle in his hand—I said, "For God's sake! Mr. Byrne, take me off to the hospital; my wife had stabbed me in the head"—she was behind me when I said this—the blow on the side of the head was struck with the hand, I think—I do not know what the other was struck with; the blood flowed out directly Afterwards—it seemed to me a very sharp blow at the moment—I was taken to Charing-Cross Hospital—this knife is one similar to those we use at home.

BYRNE. I live at 32, Silver-street, and am a boot-closer—the prisoner and her husband lived in the same house—about half-past one on Sunday, 1st May, the prosecutor came home; he had been drinking—he went upstairs, and about two minutes after I heard a noise as though there was a struggle in the room—I opened my door, and listened—I heard Mr. Poacher call out, "Help!" "Police! I am stabbed!"—I went up with a light—I saw him standing by his room door in a stooping posture, with his hand to the head, and bleeding profusely from the face—he said, "Mr. Byrne, for God's sake! take me to the hospital, I am bleeding to death; my wife has stabbed me three times in the head"—his wife was close by; she did not say a word—I called the police to the door, and she was given into custody—near the place where she was, I found this knife, on the floor of the room where she was standing—she afterwards said at the station, "Mr. Byrne, what you say is true, but to-morrow will show how I have been used."

COURT. Q. Have you been into this room before? A. No, not while they lived in it—they have lived there about six weeks—the gas lamp throws a faint light into the room, enough to distinguish any object clearly—you could see a person's features.

HENRY ROUGH (Policeman, C 178). I was called in to 32, Silver-street, on Sunday, 1st'May—I found the prosecutor there, bleeding; and I also found the prisoner—I took her into custody—she told me, while taking her to the station, that she was very sorry she had not done for him at once—the prosecutor was not exactly drunk, but he had been drinking; the prisoner was quite sober—I took him to Charing-Cross Hospital—I saw the Knife on the floor, and saw Mr. Byrne pick it up—there were three spots of blood on the blade, and one on the handle.

COURT. Q. You say the prisoner was quite sober, was she excited at all? A. No, not at all.

JAMES COLTON ARNOLD . I am house-surgeon at Charing-Cross Hospital—I attended to the prosecutor when he came in on 1st May—he had one wound on his head, just beneath the eyebrow—there was a good deal of hemorrhage from the wound—the cause of bleeding was that it had cut a blood-vessel—I think this knife would produce a wound of that description—it was a jagged wound.

Prisoner's Defence (written). My husband came home about a quarter to one, drunk—I asked him where he had been—he made use of a very bad expression, and that led to quarreling on both sides—I was rather the worse

through drink at the time—I was lying on the bed when he came home—when he abused me, I got up—I went to the table to get a candle to light it, and he struck me with his fist—there was a knife on the table, and I took it in defence, not intending to use it to do him harm—he went to get the knife from me, and we both fell, and it accidentally cut him, which I was not aware of till he cried out "I am stabbed!"—he called "Police!" a lodger came in and fetched the police—we have lived very unhappily through his ill-usage—he has turned me out of his room, and I have had to sleep on the stairs many timed—he has been under medical treatment for the disease he ought to have been ashamed of.

GUILTY of unlawfully wounding. Confined Six Months.

NEW COURT—Wednesday, May 11th, 1859.


Before Mr. Recorder and the Fifth Jury.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-481
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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481. JOHN BROWNIE (17) , Stealing one watch, value 5l. of Richard Bonnet Maud, from his person; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY Confined Eighteen Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-482
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

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482. JOHN DAVIS (24) , Feloniously cutting and wounding Thomas Carrington with intent to do him grievous bodily harm. (see page 24).

MR. PLATT offered no evidence.


9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-483
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

483. LOUISA ALLEN (36) , Stealing two shawls, value 3l. 10s., of Thomas Bryer.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

ISAAC HORNER . I am assistant to Mr. Thomas Bryer, a draper, No. 44, King William-street. On 4th April, the prisoner and another woman came and asked to look at some shawls—they went in the shawl-room, selected one large square shawl and paid a deposit of a shilling on it—they then left the shop and came again the next day, on Tuesday, 5th April—the prisoner told me she had lost the bill which we had given her and she wished to change the shawl which they had bought for a long one—I took them into the shawl-room and left them there—they came down in about five minutes afterwards—they followed Mr. Clark out of the room, and after staying some little time they left—Mr. Clark made a communication to me and I followed them—I came up to them and I said, "I want you to go back to the shop with me there is a mistake about the shawl"—they seemed confused, and I said, "Which of you has got the shawl?" the younger woman who was with the prisoner went away, and the prisoner said, "She has got the shawl." I went after the younger woman and brought her back to where the prisoner was standing—I told them they must go back to the shop—they wished me to let them go—we walked on till we came to the corner of Eastcheap, and as I was looking to find an officer the younger woman went into a public-house and I lost her—the prisoner still remained and I took her back to our warehouse—when the prisoner and the other woman and I were all standing together, I saw these shawls under a cart which was there—I seized the shawls and then the younger woman escaped—I should think either of the women could

have dropt the shawls—when I had brought the younger woman back and we were all three together I saw these shawls (produced), under the cart—they are my master's, and worth about 3l. 10s.

Prisoner. I took my shawl off in the shawl-room? Witness. I cannot say whether you had your shawl off or not.

COURT. Q. How far had you to go after the younger woman? A. Across the road—the prisoner remained while I was gone.

EDWARD CLARK . I am assistant to Mr. Thomas Bryer—I remember the prisoner and another woman coming to the shop on 5th April—they were brought into the shawl-room—they came to exchange a shawl which they had paid a shilling deposit on the day before—they selected a long shawl and paid two shillings more on it—the prisoner tried on one shawl just outside the shawl-room—the other woman was in the show-room—I went outside and the prisoner came and tried one on—she had a shawl on herself except during the time she tried the shawl on—when I came out of the shawl-room they lingered for a minute, and I looked back to see what they were doing—on going back my suspicion was excited by finding that one shawl was missing which had been lying just at the entrance of the show-room on the top of a heap of ten or twelve shawls—I then missed another shawl which had been on the table near where the younger woman was left when the prisoner went out of the room—I came down and made some communication to the last witness—these are the shawls, they are the property of my master.

Prisoner. Q. Did I not take my shawl off to try on another? A. Yes; you were by me all the time.

MARIA CHAMBERS . I searched the prisoner at the station, and found on her 1s. 8d., eleven duplicates, and a shawl—while I was searching her she swallowed a piece of paper which had every appearance of a ticket off a shawl, and here is the mark on this shawl where a ticket has been pinned on it.

Prisoner's Defence. The person for whom I am suffering imprisonment I have only been acquainted with for a short time, and always thought her to be honest—I have been with her on two different occasions to buy different articles of clothing, but I did not know that she was in any way dishonest until I saw her throw the goods under the cart and run away—when the owner of the shop stopped us and asked us to go back to the shop I went willingly with him; as for the duplicates, six of them were my own, and the others were given to me by this person to mind for her, as she said she had no where to put them—I am a poor widow with three orphan children.


9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-484
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

484. LOUISA ALLEN (36), was again indicted for stealing 4 cloaks value 2l. of John Hunt.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM SMITH (City policeman, 572). The prisoner was given into my charge, and 11 duplicates were given me by the female searcher, in consequence of which I went to Mr. Jones, a pawnbroker, and two childrens' cloaks were brought to me.

JANE BUCKLAND . I am assistant to Mr. John Hunt who keeps a shop in Bishopsgate-street—on 2d April, the prisoner and a younger woman came to the shop—they went into the show-room during my absence down stairs—I went into the show-room and they appeared very much confused, and the prisoner was stooping down as if she was putting something under her dress—she asked to look at some cheap frocks—I asked what kind, and

they could not tell me what they wanted—I saw a white cloak under the prisoner's shawl—I could just see the white lining—I made no observation—she then told me she wanted to pay some money off a dress that she had had laid by on the previous Friday—there had been a dress kept for them—they had been there on the Thursday or Friday—it is a usual thing to pay money on things that are kept, but not with us—I went to a little glass case and the prisoner dropped the cloak and trod on it—I picked it up and looked her in the face, and said, "What is this?" she said, "I must have dragged it off the chair;" but there were not any cloaks on the chair—after they were gone I missed two cloaks—I went down with the prisoner and the other, and she gave me half-a-crown to take 2s. more off what was left—when the prisoner came down she was holding her clothes up close to her, as if she was holding something—on the following Monday I missed two other cloaks—these cloaks are my master's property.

Prisoner. You dropped the cloak. Witness. I did not; you had it under your shawl—I did not stop you at that time because I did not know that you had anything more about you—the other young woman left the shop rather before you.

FREDERICK SARSON . I am shopman to Mr. Jones, a pawnbroker—I have two cloaks pawned on 2d April, in the name of Amelia Stevens—I gave this duplicate—I believe the prisoner pawned them—a young woman was with her.

Prisoner. I never was in the shop. Witness. I have no doubt about it JAMES BEAUMONT THORP. I am a pawnbroker of Spitalfields—I have two cloaks pawned on 2d April, by the prisoner, to the best of my belief—they were delivered to the officer on his producing the duplicate—this is the duplicate I gave to the person in the name of Mary Fisher.

Prisoner's Defence. This young woman said she was out of place, and I had her for a little while—I made a companion of her—I did not know she was dishonest.

GUILTY — Confined Twelve Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-485
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

485. EVAN DOWELL (24) , Feloniously receiving from David Chinnery 10s. under pretence of helping him to certain goods which had been stolen from him.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

DAVID CHINNERY . I am a merchant—I reside at Ampton-place, Gray's Inn-road—at the end of October, 1856, I had a house at Notting-hill—in 1857, that house was robbed and I lost plate to the amount of 100l., amongst which were six or seven spoons that I set some value by—after that some of the property was found in possession of the prisoner's brother, and he was taken before a magistrate—I was present—it was through me that he was convicted—the prisoner came to me about three months since—he asked to see me, and said he had come on a very important mission, that he was working with the police and he knew about the robbery committed at my house at Notting-hill, and if I would only stick by him he would succeed in recovering the whole of the property—I asked, him if he was sincere, and said, I hoped he was not deceiving me—he said, no; it was the truth; and he wanted to make an appointment for me to meet him that night, but I could not do so—an appointment was made for another night, and I made a communication to the police—we went to the Porcupine public-house in Newport-market—I was in disguise—we found the prisoner was not there, and they directed us to a house in St. Martin's-lane where we found him—I did not get anything on that occasion, and I lost sight of the prisoner—I saw him again on 14th March, we met him in

the Hop Gardens in St. Martin's-lane—I asked him if he could get me my property—he said he could, and he took us round by Charing Cross up to St. Martin-street, and he said before going into the house, "If you will give me 2l. 5s. 6d. I will get your diamond ring." I said, "I would rather get the plate than have my diamond ring;"—he said, "Very well, I can do that;" and he took us round to a public-house in St. Martin-street—he took us in the parlour and said, "If you will give me 10s. I will get five of your spoons."—I gave him 10s., and he was to go and get the spoons—I was to wait outside—I did wait—he returned and said, "There is one or two of the parties here, the others will not be here till late; but if you would rather go home, you shall have them by 10 o'clock to morrow morning."—I went home—I did not see him the next morning—I never saw my 10s. again—the next time I saw the prisoner he was given in charge of the police.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did you give him a paper offering a reward if he got the property? A. Yes—it was not my proposal to him to give him some money as a reward if he would try and discover where my property was—he came to me and stated what I said—he said, "I am working with the police"—I did not say to him, "I shall be very happy to reward you if you will try to discover where my property is;" most assuredly not—I did not say "If you can discover where my property is, and recover it for me, I shall be very happy to pay you for your trouble"—he submitted time after time to know what the amount would be—I made no promise.

RICHARD FAWELL (Policeman, A 425). I took the prisoner from information—I told him he must consider himself in custody for obtaining 10s. from Mr. Chinnery—he said, "I received 10s. from him"—he did not say anything else.

GUILTY .**— Confined Six Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-486
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

Related Material

486. FREDERICK FISHER (26) , Stealing 1 cape, value 10l., of Henry John Preston, his master.

HENRY JOHN PRESTON . The prisoner was a clerk in my employment for about fourteen months—there was a fur cape left in my office by a client of mine about April—I searched for it on 29th April, and could not find it—the next day the prisoner came and I asked him where the cape was—he said he thought that my client's son, Robert Lacy, had taken it—I put myself in communication with the police; and I told the prisoner it was no use his denying it, that he had taken the cape, I felt certain that he had—he still denied it—I said that it was no use denying it, and he then gave me the pawn-ticket, and said he had pawned it—I gave him in custody—this is the cape.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Had he been in your service some time. A. Yes—his wages were a guinea a-week for the first six months, and 25s. a-week afterwards—he had been down to Croydon on professional business a day or two before—I did not know he was short of money at that time—I told him if he was short to let me know, and he should have some—when he handed me the duplicate he said, "I merely did this because I was rather short; I intended to redeem it in a day or two when I got the money."

FREDERICK READ . I am assistant to a pawnbroker in Am well-street—this cape was pawned by the prisoner—this is the duplicate I gave—it is in the name of John Taylor—I had known the prisoner as a customer.

JOHN LEONARD (City policeman). I searched the prisoner and found on him 15s. 9 1/2 d., and eleven duplicates, independent of the one relating to this property.

The prisoner's statement before the magistrate was here read as follows:—"I intended to return it last Monday, but I was disappointed of the money."

GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury. Confined Six Months.

THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, May 11th, 1859.



before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Seventh Jury.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-487
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

487. JAMES PLUMBER (28) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin, having other counterfeit coin in his possession.

MESSRS. ELLIS and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

BESTY HOPE . My husband keeps a public-house at Ramsden-green—on the night of 6th April, at 9 o'clock, I served the prisoner with a pint of beer—he gave me 1s.—I gave him the change, though I thought it was not good, but my husband said that it was—it felt slippery—in about ten minutes the prisoner called for another pint of beer, and paid with another shilling that felt greasy also—it turned out to be bad, and a policeman who was in the house took the prisoner.

GEORGE HERBERT HOPE . I keep this public-house—my wife called my attention to a shilling; I thought it was good, and put it in my pocket—there was a half-crown or two there, and two or three other shillings, but no shilling of this die; it is a crown and lion shilling—my wife afterwards called my attention to a second shilling, which I found to be bad—I compared the two, and found they were both bad—I gave the prisoner in charge with the shillings.

THOMAS CRANE (Policeman, T 166). I was called to Mr. Hope's, and received these six shillings from him (produced)—I took the prisoner, and found on him a bad shilling, three good sixpences, and sixpence in coppers, and a box of powder—under the seat I found these two bad shillings (produced) wrapped up in a piece of paper—I marked them differently.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin—these two shillings of 1820 and 1826 are both bad—the one taken from his pocket is bad, and is of 1826, from the same mould as one of the two uttered—the two found under the seat are bad, and one each from the same moulds as the two uttered—the powder has nothing to do with it.

Prisoner's Defence. A man gave me the two shillings.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-488
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown

Related Material

488. ELIZABETH DAVIS (20), and MARGARET ROUSE (28) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. ELLIS and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES HARISON . I keep an oil and colour shop at 173, Bethnal-green Road—on Sunday, 27th March, I was up stairs dressing; my wife brought me a shilling, which I found to be bad—I went down and saw Davis in the shop—my wife said in her presence that she had tendered that shilling for some soap—I said, "How many more of this sort have you got about you?" she said, "None, I should hope," showing her purse, with about 1l. worth

of silver in it, and that she did not know it was bad—I broke it in two, returned her the pieces, and she left, saying, "I will let you know that my husband is a respectable mechanic, and that you ought not to batter my money in that way"—next afternoon, about half-past 2 o'clock, I saw the prisoners—I recognised Davis and watched them—Davis went into Mr. Calcraft's, a grocer, 97, Bethnal-green, and House passed on about twenty yards—Davis came out in about five minutes, joined Rouse, and I saw something pass between them—Rouse then quitted Davis and went into Calcraft's—Davis crossed over to the other side of the road—I went in in about two minutes as Rouse was leaving; the young man Payne had a shilling in his hand—I took it from his hand, examined it, and said "This is a bad shilling"—I returned it to him, and from what I said he went to the till and took out another shilling—I went out with the other assistant and found the prisoners about forty yards from the shop; Davis was sitting on a step, and House was standing up laughing—I paid, "You must come back to Mr. Calcraft's shop; you have been passing bad money"—Rouse said, "Have I"—we went back to the shop, and Payne said, "Yes, you have given me two bad shillings"—Rouse threw down a good shilling, snatched one of the bad ones from Payne's hand and swallowed it—Payne said, "She has swallowed the shilling"—she then denied it—they were both given in custody.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Is your wife here? A. No—three days had elapsed since Davis's visit to my shop—I had never seen her before—Mr. Calcraft's shop is in the same street as mine.

GEORGE PAYNE . I am assistant to Mr. Calcraft—on 29th March, about half-past 2 o'clock, Davis came and bought half a pound of sugar and half an ounce of tea, which came to 2 1/2 d.—I served her—she gave me a bad shilling—I put it in the till and gave her the change—there was no other shilling there—about two minutes after she had gone out, Rouse came and asked for a quarter of a pound of sugar and half an ounce of tea, and gave me a shilling—Harrison, who had come in about the same time and asked for some cocoa, said, "Allow me"—he took up the shilling, said, "That is bad; look in the till and see if the other is bad"—I did so, and found the shilling I had taken from Davis; it was the only shilling there, and was lying on some half-crowns—some time afterwards Harrison and the assistant brought in the prisoners—I said to Rouse, "Do you know you have been and passed a bad shilling"—she said, "Have I" and pulled the shilling out of my hand and swallowed it—she then denied swallowing it—I gave the other shilling to the constable.

Cross-examined. Was it out of your sight? Not after it came out of the till—there were about five half-crowns in the till; it had been cleared a quarter of an hour before.

JOSEPH HALLIDAY (Policeman, K 329). I was sent for to Mr. Calcraft's and took the prisoners—Payne gave me this bad shilling—the female searcher gave me four good sixpences, and 1s. 2 3/4 d. in copper found on Davis, and 2s. and 9 3/4 d. in copper on Rouse.

MR. WEBSTER. This shilling is bad.



Confined Twelve Months each.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-489
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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489. ANN MORRIS (35), was indicted for a like offence, to which she

PLEADED GUILTY .*— Confined Six Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-490
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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490. THOMAS ATKINS (24), was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. ELLIS and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

ELIZABETH GREEDY . I keep a shop at 3, Little White Lion-street, Seven Dials—on 19th April, between 8 and 9 in the evening, the prisoner came and asked me to show him two plated desert spoons which were in the window; he asked the price of the two—I said "A shilling"—he offered me eightpence for them—I said "No; I have refused tenpence, and will take no less than a shilling"—he said he would take them to his mistress and see if she approved of them, and, if not, he would return in ten minutes and would I take them back if she did not—I said "Yes"—he gave me a florin and I gave him a shilling—he left with the spoons—after he had gone I bit a piece out of the florin, and found it was bad—I had-no other money in my pocket, and did not mix it—I went out and found him in a public-house, five minutes walk off, drinking gin and water—I waited till he came out, and said, "Young man, you bought two plated spoons of me about a quarter of an hour ago"—he said, "No"—I tapped him on the breast, and said, "You have got the spoons still"—I took them out, held him till a policeman came, and gave him in custody, with the spoons and the florin.

Prisoner. Q. Did not I give the spoons into your hand? A. No—you did not say that you were not aware the florin was bad.

GEORGE MADDAMS (Policeman, A 325). I took the prisoner—the last witness had hold of his collar, and they were struggling—she said, in his hearing, "This man came into my shop about an hour back, bought two spoons, and gave me a bad two-shilling piece"—she had the spoons in her hand—he made no reply—I took him to the station—the inspector told him the charge, and he said, "I know nothing of it"—I found nothing on him.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This florin is bad.

The prisoner produced a written defence, stating that he received the florin at the Adam and Eve, at the corner of Hampstead-road, in change for a sovereign, and did not know that it was bad.

GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-491
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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491. ANN DELANY (33), Was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. ELLIS and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

ANN WEST .—I am in service at the Duke of Wellington, Well-street—the prisoner came there on 19th April for a quartern of the best rum, which came to sixpence—she gave me a shilling; I gave her the change, and she left—I held the shilling in my hand, and took it to Mr. Seymour, a neighbour, to get two sixpences for it—I did not lose sight of it, but from what he said, I took it back to the Duke of Wellington—it turned out to be bad, and I gave it to Mrs. Longley, who gave it back to me, and I kept it in my pocket by itself until the following Tuesday, 26th April, when the prisoner came again and gave me a florin for some rum—I took it into the bar parlour, and Mrs. Longley came out and said that it was bad—the prisoner said, "Well, here is a good sixpence for the rum"—Mrs. Longley sent the potman after her, who brought her back, and she was given in charge.

Prisoner. I had not been in that house for six or seven weeks before.

ANN LONGLEY . I am the wife of James Longley, who keeps the Wellington, in Well-street—on 19th April I got a bad shilling from the last witness, and gave it to her back—I had seen her draw the rum, and give the prisoner the change—on a subsequent day I saw a florin, and said to the prisoner, "Unless you make good the shilling you gave here last Tuesday

night I shall have you locked up; this is the second time you have been here"—she said she had got no more money to pay me with, and I let her go—she was brought back by a policeman, and I gave him the florin.

Prisoner. You let that florin go into fifty hands.

WITNESS. I did not—my potman bent it double—it was never out of my sight.

EDWARD GRAY (Policeman, K 20). On 26th April I took the prisoner about eighty yards from the Duke of Wellington—she had a bottle of rum on her—I took her back, and saw the shilling and florin—she said that she lived at 11, Bride-street, Bromley—I went there but could find nothing of her—no money was found on her.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This florin and shilling are bad.

Prisoner's Defence. I did not know they were bad.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-492
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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492. GEORGE KNIGHT (22), was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. ELLIS and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

SARAH BRENTON . My husband keeps a fruiterer's shop in Earl-street, Hoxton—on 1st April the prisoner came and asked for four oranges; they were a penny each—he said he would give a halfpenny each—I said, "No; that is less than they cost"—he said, "I will give twopence for the three"—I said, "You have four"—he gave me a half-crown, and said, "I will have them"—I gave him two Queen's shillings and twopence—he said, "You have taken a penny apiece"—I said, "Yes; you agreed to that"—he said, "I shall not have them; give me my half-crown back"—he put down the four oranges, and 2s. 2d.—one of the shillings was one which I had given him, and one was a bad one—I am sure of that, as I gave him two Queen's shillings, and he gave me back a George the Third, and left the shop directly—I bit it, and gave it to my husband, who went after the prisoner, but could not see him—I saw my little girl put it in a box by itself—it remained there till the 13th, when I gave it to a constable—on the 13th my little girl brought me a good florin—I went into the shop and saw the prisoner there—I knew him again directly—there were four lemons on the counter; the price of them was fourpence—I gave him a Queen's shilling, which my little girl made a mark on, and a fourpenny-piece and fourpence—he turned to go out, and then turned back and said, "You have taken a penny apiece"—I said, "Yes"—he said, "Your little girl agreed with me for a halfpenny"—she said, "No, Sir; you told me to take fourpence from the two-shilling piece"—he said, "Then I shall not have them"—I gave him his two-shilling piece, and he gave me a George the Third shilling, instead of my new one, and eightpence—he left the shop, and ran when he got outside—I called my husband, who went after him and brought him back—I said, "You are the man that passed a bad shilling on me to-day, as you did a fortnight ago"—he said, "No; you are wrong"—I said, "You are the man that came in for four lemons just now"—he said, "Yes"—he had snatched the bad shilling from my husband in Gloucester-street; and when he came back he said, "This is the same one you gave me; search me;" giving me a good shilling—I said, "That is not the one you snatched from my husband; you have changed it"—it was a Victoria shilling, and rather new—my husband said, "I think you have it in your mouth"—a policeman came, and said, "Put out your tongue"—my husband then said, "You have swallowed it"—he pressed his handkerchief to his throat, and said, "No, I have not; and I have nothing in my mouth."

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Where did you get the shilling from? A. My little girl brought it in, laid it on the table, and said, "Here is a new shilling"—I gave the prisoner a Queen's shilling, and he gave me back a George—it was not a new one.

THOMAS BRENTON . I am the husband of the last witness—I got a shilling from her on 1st April—it was bad—I tried to bend it, gave it back to her, and it was put away—on the 13th I got a bad shilling from her, and went after the prisoner—he was walking very fast—I overtook him, stopped him, and asked him if he was aware that he had passed a bad shilling—he said "No," and snatched it out of my fingers—it was a George, but I cannot say whether the third or fourth—I took him back to the shop, and he gave my wife a good Queen's shilling, which he said was the one he snatched from my hand—she said "No"—a constable came, and I said that it was in his mouth—he put his hand to his mouth, and seemed to swallow something.

Cross-examined. Do you believe he actually swallowed anything? A. Yes—I saw this shilling between the 1st and 13th—there was no other money in the box where it was kept.

CAROLINE IRONS . I am Mrs. Brenton's sister—on 13th April I served the prisoner with some lemons—he gave me a florin—a Queen's shilling lay on the table, which I took up and gave him, and asked my sister for eight-pence, which she gave me, and went with me to the shop—the prisoner then said, "The little girl told me a halfpenny each"—I said, "I told you a penny, Sir, and you told me to take fourpence"—he asked my sister for the florin, and she gave it him back—he put down the lemons—I put the first shilling in the box on 1st April—there was nothing else there.

Cross-examined. Q. Was there a shilling lying on the counter? A. Yes; rather a new one, which I had just brought in.

BARTHOLOMEW WALLACE (Policeman). I was called, and saw the prisoner put his handkerchief to his neck as if he had swallowed something—he gave a false address—the prosecutrix gave me this shilling (produced).

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This is a bad one.

GUILTY .*— Confined Twelve Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-493
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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493. ANN WILLIAMS (44), was indicted for a like offence; to which she

PLEADED GUILTY .*— Confined Nine Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-494
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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494. JOHN WILLIAMS, Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. BODKIN and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS BENNETT . I am getting on for twelve years old, and live at 159, Upper Thames-street—my father is a tailor—on 15th April, about 6 in the evening, I was playing in Thames-street—the prisoner came up to me and said, "Go and get half an ounce of tobacco, and I will give you a halfpenny"—he gave me a half-crown, and told me to bring it to him near Calvert's brewery—I went to Mr. Sanders', a tobacconist—Miss Sanders served me—I had no other half-crown—she gave two shillings and fourpence halfpenny change, and some tobacco—I went to the place and gave them to the prisoner, and he gave me a halfpenny—I was just going away, when Mr. Sanders's son came up and said, "Who gave you this half-crown?"—I said, "That man," and the prisoner ran away—there was a cry of "Stop thief"—he was stopped, and handed over to a policeman.

MARY SANDERS . My father is a tobacconist, of 20, Bush-lane—on 15th April the little boy came in, and I served him with some tobacco—he gave

me a half-crown, and I gave him two shillings and fourpence halfpenny change—when he was gone I showed it to my brother, who took it and ran after him.

WILLIAM SANDERS . I am a brother of the last witness—she gave me this half-crown—I found it was bad, and ran after the boy—I asked him who gave it him, and he pointed to the prisoner, who ran away—there was a cry of "Stop thief," and somebody stopped him—he said he was not the man—an officer took him.

Prisoner. Q. Did you not say at the police-station that you did not lose sight of me? A. Not after you had turned up Suffolk-lane—I did then, because you went round the corner—you might have made away with the change and the tobacco as you turned the corner—you were not a minute out of my sight—I do not know who the man was that stopped you, but I know he works about there.

MR. BODKIN. Q. Did you see the prisoner start when you spoke to the boy? A. Yes, I saw him running, and lost sight of him at the corner, and when I turned the corner I saw him again—I am sure he is the person—he was still running when he was stopped—when I went up I saw the boy coming away from the prisoner—he was about a dozen yards from him, going in an opposite direction—he pointed to the prisoner, who had his back to me—the prisoner could not see the boy point, but he might have seen me come out of the shop—he was just at the corner of Suffolk-lane when I caught sight of him.

SAMUEL MILLER (City Policeman, 478). I saw the prisoner brought back—he was given in my custody—he said, "The boy must be mistaken, I am not the man"—I searched him at the station and found two halfpence on him—he refused to give any address—I found no tobacco or change on him—I received this half-crown from William Sanders.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This is a bad half-crown.

Prisoner's Defence. I was going along Thames-street, and turned up one of the lanes—when I was opposite a narrow turning, I heard a cry of "Stop thief"—I saw a person coming round the corner—he took hold of me, and took me back to the lad, who said, "Well, I think that is the man," and I was taken into custody.

GUILTY .*— Confined Twelve months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-495
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

495. ANN GIDLING, Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin, having other counterfeit coin in her possession.

MESSRS. ELLIS and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

JANE PEPLER . I serve at my brother's public-house, 61, St. Martin's-le-Grand—on Saturday evening, 16th April, between 5 and 6 o'clock, the prisoner came for three-pennyworth of brandy—she gave me a shilling—I told her it was a bad one, and I gave it to my brother—she said she was not aware it was bad—she did not pay me for the brandy.

Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. Did she seem rather astonished at it's being bad? A. Not at all—she said something about her husband coming there directly.

GEORGE PEPLER . I saw the prisoner served with the brandy—she said she did not know the shilling was bad, and her husband would be there directly—I sent for our porter, so that she could not escape—she wanted to go, but I asked her to take a seat in a little box—it closes with a spring, and she could not get out—she wanted to know how long she was to be kept there—I said, "Until your husband comes"—she said she would not

be kept from her children, and wished a policeman to be sent for, and that she had no other money—I sent for a policeman, and then she took out a half-crown and said, "There, take it out of that"—I said, "No; I shall not gratify you now," and gave her in custody with the shilling—she had several times said that she had no money.

CHARLES JOHN FOSTER (City Policeman, 269). I took the prisoner on the 16th—she gave me her address, which was false—I got another address from her on the 17th, which was correct—I received this shilling from Mr. Pepler, and this other (produced) from the female searcher.

SUSAN MARSHALL . I am the wife of Jacob Marshall, a City policeman—I search females at the station—I searched the prisoner and found one half-crown and three-halfpence in good money in her left hand, and a bad shilling in her basket, which I marked and gave to Foster—I saw her put another shilling in her mouth and swallow it—I saw that it was a shilling—I put my hand against her throat, and she became black in the face—I said, "You have swallowed one"—she said nothing.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . Both these shillings are bad.

GUILTY Confined Six Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-496
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

496. MARY ANN NEWLAND (19), and THOMAS KING (28) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. CLERK and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

MART ANN BISSELL . I am cook at 4, Cambridge-villas—on 11th April a man came, and I sold him some bottles and bones for sixpence—the prisoner King came and fetched them—he gave me a half-crown, and I took it into the kitchen and showed it to a young man named Owers, who was there for orders—he said it was bad, and told King so—he said he had taken it for some beer—he went away, taking the bones and bottles—he said, "I will not be gone many minutes"—a young man went after him and fetched the sixpence for me—that young man is not hem, but the one that came for orders is.

THOMAS OWRS . I am a grocer of Twickenham-common—I was at 4, Cambridge-villas, on 11th April, when King came for some bottles and bones—he offered the last witness a half-crown—I told her it was bad, and to call him into the kitchen—I cut it round the edge with a penknife, and it cut easily—I put it down on the table, and King took it up—the post-man, William Pye, went for the sixpence, and I remained there till he brought it—I had seen the prisoners together that day, and I saw them together again about ten minutes afterwards in the Queen's-road, a hundred yards from Cambridge-villas.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. How came you to give it back? A. He took it up—I asked him how many more he had got about him—he said he had not got any—the sixpence came back in about five minutes.

ELIZABETH EMMA ROBERTS . I was at Montpelier-row, Twickenham, and between 5 and 6 o'clock I was at the window, and saw Newland—she asked if there were any bones, bottles, or rags to be sold—my father, who was there, said that there was not—my mother said there was an old dress that she might have for 1s. 6d.—Newland fetched King, who agreed to buy it for 1s. 6d.—he gave a half-crown, and my mother gave him the change—they both left together, and I think the dress was put into Newland's basket—after they had gone, my mother examined the half-crown, and it was bad—my father weighed it, kept it, and gave it to a policeman.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you put it among other money first? A. No; it was not out of my sight before it went to my father—my mother is not here.

DAVID ROBERTS . I live at Montpelier-road, Twickenham—on 11th April I saw Newland in the court-yard—I did not see King till they had left, and were crossing the road—I looked at the half-crown three minutes after they had left, took it to a shop, weighed it, found that it was light, gave it to a policeman at the end of the row, and gave him a description of the prisoners.

THOMAS MONK (Policeman, V 405). On 11th April I was on duty in the Richmond-road, and Mr. Roberts gave me some information and this half-crown—I went towards Richmond bridge, and found the prisoners together—I told King that he was charged with uttering a counterfeit half-crown in Montpelier-row—he said that he had not been there at all, and denied all knowledge of the half-crown—Newland ran away—I searched King at the station, and found on him three good shillings and a penny—Newland was brought to the station about half an hour afterwards, and she said in King's presence, "I do not know anything of the man."

HENRY SMITH (Policeman V 333). I took Newland near Richmond-bridge, about 7 in the evening—she had a basket containing this dress—I told her the charge—she said she knew nothing about it—I took her to the station—she saw King, and said, "I know nothing about him"—I had seen them together in Park-road, Richmond, with another man.

MISS ROBERTS (re-examined). This is the dress my mother sold.

ELIZABETH JUKES . I search females—I searched Newland, and found seven shillings, a half-crown, and twopence in good money—she told me she knew nothing of the man, and never saw him before that afternoon.

WILIAM WEBSTER . This half-crown is bad.

NEWLAND— GUILTY .— Confined Four Months.

KING— GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

OLD COURT.—Thursday May 12th, and Friday May 13th, 1859.


COPELAND, M.P.; Sir. GEORGE CARROLL, Knight, Ald.; Sir JAMES DUKE, Bart., M.P, Ald.; Mr. Ald. CHALLIS; Mr. Ald. ROSE; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.

Before Mr. Justice Crowder, and the Fourth Jury.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-497
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

497. ANDREW FOSTER (30), WILLIAM WYNN BRAMWELL (25), FREDERICK HUMPHREYS (46), and WILLIAM WAGNER (45), were indicted for feloniously Forging and uttering on 23d March an order for the payment of 265l., with intent to defraud.

MESSRS. BODKIN, SLEIGH and GIFFARD conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE WATKINS . I am a baker by business—I now live at 10, Grafton-place, Euston-square—in the beginning of February last, I was residing at Church-street, Soho—there is a public-house in Richmond-street, Soho, called the Three Crowns—it is a house-of-call for bakers—I was in the habit of going there occasionally—in the early part of February I met the prisoner Bramwell there—I never knew him before that—an intimacy sprang up between us; we used to drink and play dominoes together—after knowing him a short time, a conversation took place between us on the

subject of cheques—he asked me If I would nave any objection to present a cheque that was on the cross; that everything should be made right to prove my innocence, if the forgery was detected; that they would advertise for a baker, so that I should have a letter to prove that I was engaged; that I should have 50l. for my share; that I should take the 50l. in gold for my share, and the rest bring in notes, because they could easily dispose of these notes by getting foreign money, and so change them about, and we could meet in the evening after it was all over and enjoy ourselves—I said I would give him an answer to-morrow—this was on the last Sunday evening in February—I don't remember anything else that occurred at that time—on the Monday morning I went to the Vine-street Police-station, and placed myself in communication with Inspector Webb, and from that day I acted under his cognisance, and with his knowledge—on the same day, the Monday, after seeing the inspector, I went to the Three Crowns public-house, somewhere about 12 o'clock in the day—I saw Bramwell there—we went for a walk—he asked me, was I prepared?—I said, yes; I was—he said, "I do not know in which paper the advertisement will appear, but I will bring it to you at the Three Crowns in the morning"—he said he would put it in that day—he said they could have first-class apartments for me to apply to—he said that he had presented cheques, but that he had been stopped, and that he could not go again—up to this time I knew Bramwell by the name of Brown—an appointment was made between us to meet at the Three Crowns the following morning—I went, but he did not come—I next saw him on the following Saturday evening—I told him that I had been expecting him on the Tuesday, and every day after—he said, "We have been too busy, and were not prepared; you shall advertise, and I will bring you the money to-morrow night"—he did not come the next night according to his appointment—I saw him again on the following Saturday (that was a week after), at the Three Crowns—I did not speak to him on that occasion; I saw him there, but had no conversation with him—I did not see him all the next week until Monday, 21st March, that was at the end of Grafton-place, Euston-square—I had heard of him on the Sunday previous, and had an appointment to meet him at Swinton-street, but I did not see him there—a man named Lambourne, at the Three Crowns, gave me a message; that was on the 20th—in consequence of that, I went to my late lodgings in Church-street—the landlady told me that some one had been there, which I had no doubt was Bramwell—I then went to Swinton-street; that was not in consequence of what she told me, but of what I heard from my present landlady—Bramwell was not at Swinton-street—it was about 11 o'clock in the day that I got there—I went back home, and he was there waiting—he said, "Meet me at Swinton-street, at two o'clock" I did so, and we went into a beer shop kept by one Hammond—he produced this piece of paper to me at that time (read, "Wanted, by a respectable married man, a situation as light porter, or messenger, at a first-class-house. George Watkins, 10, Graft on street, Euston-square"—he desired me to take a copy of that in my own hand-writing—I did so, and gave it to him; the other I kept—he kept me there from 2 to 3 o'clock, with the pretence that he was waiting for some one to bring the money for the advertisement—while I was waiting there, some gentleman came in and had a glass of beer, and went out again—I did not observe whether he took any particular notice of me—I was in such a position that he could see me—not above two or three minutes after he had left, Bramwell said, "Now we will go"—we walked together a short distance, and then parted—an

appointment was made to meet at the same place, Swinton-street, if I remember right, at 11 o'clock next day—I went there, but he did not come—I went home, and soon afterwards received this letter; it came by the two o'clock post, and contained this card (read, "To G. W., 10, Grafton-place, Euston-square. 22d March, 1859. Cottage-place.—Sir,—If you apply to the address given on the enclosed card, you probably may hear of something to your advantage. William Wyatt." (Card read, "C.H. Yarston, 2, Cottage-place, City-road"—up to that time I was not aware that the advertisement had appeared—about ten minutes after receiving that letter, Bramwell called upon me—he handed me the receipt for this advertisement in the Daily Telegraph—I believe I afterwards offered that receipt to Joy, he said it was of no use, and I think it got lost—it was a receipt for 1s. for an insertion in the Daily Telegraph—this is the advertisement (looking at it)—I showed Bramwell the letter and the card which I had just received—I told him I had received it by post—he said he could not tell me whether it came from their party or not; but, if he was me, he would go and see; it might be a journeyman's situation—he then said, "You remember that gentleman that came in just before we left on Saturday?"—I said I did remember some gentleman coming in, but I did not take any notice of him—Bramwell was at the time rather the worse for liquor—he said he had kept me there on purpose for that gentle-man to see me—he said, "You were not punctual to your appointment," or something to that effect—I said, "How do you know I was not there"—he said, "If I was not there, some one else was"—I think what he said to me was, "Who was that man you spoke to/' and I said, "How do you know I spoke to a man"—he did on one occasion say that I was not punctual, but I don't think it was on this occasion, I cannot be positive—I know on one occasion he said, "To show you I was there, I saw two bakers talking together at the end of Swinton-street;" and on another occasion he said, "Who was that man you spoke to;"—I don't exactly remember upon which occasion either of these conversations occurred—he made an appointment to meet me at 5 o'clock on Tuesday evening at the corner of Swinton-street—I kept the appointment, but he did not—I went to the Three Crowns that same evening—the potman there made some communication to me, in consequence of which I went at 8 o'clock that evening to Red Lion-street, Holborn, and met Bramwell there in the street at the corner of Red Lion-street, Holborn; I found him standing there—we had been standing a quarter of an hour I should say, when he said, "Come and stand here," meaning on the kerb, "they have arrived; take no notice of any one"—the next minute I saw some one taking great notice of me; after he had walked backwards and forwards on the opposite side of the way, Bramwell and I stood back by the public-house, and that person passed backwards and forwards close to me, on the pavement between me and other persons—that was the prisoner Humphreys—after that the prisoner Foster came and shook hands with Bramwell, and Bramwell introduced him to me—he said, "Mr. Watkins, a friend of mine"—Foster then said to Bramwell, "You can go now, be back in an hour; you had better sleep at my house to-night"—I then saw Foster go across the road and shake hands, or rather was in communication with Humphreys—Bramwell observed me looking at them, and he said, "Don't look that way, look the other way"—Bramwell then left, and Foster took me up Red Lion-street—Foster said, "Now I am a very particular man; I do not allow a second person to know my business; and if you go into this affair with me you must be as strict"—he took me into a

public-house at the corner of Bed Lion-court—I did not see any more of Humphreys; we remained there somewhere about half an hour—while there I showed him the card I had received by post in the envelope—I said, "I have received this letter and card; is it from your party?"—he said, "I cannot say; I don't know"—he then left, leaving me in the public-house; he took the card away with him; he returned in about ten minutes or a quarter of an hour, gave me the card, and said, "It is not from our party; we have posted a letter for you; you will receive it in the morning"—while I was in the public-house with him, persons came and pushed the door a little way open and looked in, that occurred more than once while I was there; it was a very small box that I was in, a person putting his head in in that way would have an opportunity of seeing me directly—I noticed this done several times, and Foster said, "You must excuse our people, they are naturally mistrustful lest I should be engaging a wrong man"—Foster went out again and returned in a few minutes, and said, "You are to do this little affair to-morrow"—this was on Tuesday, 22d March—he then made an appointment for me at a quarter-past 10 next morning at the Orange Tree, New-road; he said, "If you have not received the letter in the morning, come at the appointed time, you can easily go back for that"—we parted at night; after that I made a communication that same night to Serjeant Joy—Next morning, 23d March, I received a letter by post before I left my lodgings; this is the envelope of it it is directed "G. W., 10 Grafton-place, Euston-road"—I took the envelope, and the letter that was in it, to the Orange Tree—I there met Bram well; I first saw him outside the house, and went in with him—Foster arrived about a quarter of an hour afterwards; he asked me if I had received the letter—I said I had, and showed it him—he took the letter out, and gave the envelope back to me—he kept the letter.—(William Base, clerk to Messrs. Mullens, the solicitors for the prosecution, proved the service of a notice upon all the prisoners, in Newgate, on Saturday last, to produce, amongst other documents, the letter in question.)—The letter stated "If G. W. will meet Mr. Curtis at the Boar and Castle, Oxford-street, at 11 o'clock this day; he will probably hear of a situation that will suit him"—Foster said, "I shall not be ready for half an hour, what will you do?"—I said, "I will go for a walk for half an hour"—I was to be back at 11 o'clock at the Orange Tree; I was so—Foster came there; Bramwell was there all the time, before I went out and when I returned—Foster came in directly after me; he gave me a letter to put in the envelope—this is it; it was not the letter I handed to him originally (read)—"Tuesday evening, March 22d, 1859—If G. W. will call on Mr. Curtis to-morrow morning at 11 o'clock or a little before, at the University Hotel, Grafton-street, he will very likely hear of a situation to suit him, provided G.W.s references are satisfactory"—When Foster gave me that, I read it, and said, "Yes"—Bramwell was present—Foster said, "Come on, are you ready—I said, "Yes"—Bramwell was present when he said that—Foster and I then started, and came from the Orange Tree up Gower-street; we left Bramwell there—as we were going along Gower-street Foster said, "Now, my boy, I feel confident we shall bring this off, and when I do, it generally comes off right"—when we got to the University Hotel Foster said, "Go in, and ask for Mr. Curtis"—he remained outside—I went into the coffee-room, and saw a gentleman sitting in one of the boxes; he had a black coat on, his hat was on, and he had a black bandage about his head tied under the chin, it came down on both sides of the face—it was very similar to this (looking at a piece of black serge produced by Funnell the officer)—he wore it in this way (the

Witness here put it on)—I believe the prisoner Wagner to be that man—I went up to him and said, "Are you Mr. Curtis?" he said, "Yes"—I showed him the letter I had received, and he said, "You are a baker I believe"—I said, "I am"—I had not described myself as a baker to him before he said that; he said, Have you any objection to go into the country"—I said I had not—he said, "Mrs. Curtis will be here at 1; I wish her to see you before I engage you"—he said nothing about what capacity I was to be engaged in, or about the wages: he said, "In the meanwhile take this, (handing me this cheque) to the bank, you can be back by;" he also gave me another piece of paper, this is it (produced), it has on it, "Mr. Curtis, Grove House, Tottenham"—I said I could be back before 1—he said, "I don't want you before 1; I have business at Bayswater" (The check was here read, dated March 22d, 1859, for 265l. drawn by J, Feetum on the Union Bank of London, Argyll-place, Regent-street Branch, payable to Mr. A. G. Moth; the check was lettered and numbered 50,8571.)—besides that paper which has on it, "Mr. Curtis, Grove House, Tottenham," he gave me this other paper; it has on it, 4, 50; 5, 10; 15, gold—he said, "That is how you are to get it"—upon receiving those instructions, I took the cheque and the piece of paper away with me—when I came out of the hotel I found Foster outside; we walked on together—I said to him, "I have left my letter with Mr. Curtis"—he said, "Oh, no; he would not allow you to do that"—I felt in my pocket, and I found it there, I thought I had left it behind me—I showed the check I had received to Foster—he said it was a capital imitation; he said they had five or six of these ready, if I was lucky I could take them all in; he said, "It won't be a bad half-week's work to earn a couple of hundred; I have myself earned 300l. at it in a week"—this conversation occurred in Rathbone-place, as we were passing along—we then went to the American Stores, Oxford-street; we did not remain there more than five minutes, and from thence we proceeded to the Union Bank, in Argyll-place; before we reached the bank we made an appointment to meet at the American Stores after I came from the bank—I went into the bank and left Foster outside; I parted with him close to the bank—I presented the cheque to one of the cashiers—Foster was brought in before I received an intimation of the cheque being refused.

Cross-examined by Mr. Metcalfe (for Foster). Q. What had you been doing before you met Bramwell? A. I am a baker—I was out of a situation at that time—I had been out of a regular situation from 19th October, but 1 had been doing many jobs, for a week, a night or two, and three or four nights; the money I received from 19th October to 27th February, amounted to 4l. 11s.; I can tell you how many nights altogether I was employed (referring to some papers)—I did not always receive 5s. a night—I received 4l. 11s. besides bread and flour, up to the time I was engaged in this business—I am not positive whether I earned any of this 4l. 11s. after that date; yes, it includes up to 20th March—I generally received 5s. a night when I was engaged—I have worked since I have known Bramwell; I can't tell for how long—it could not have been more than a week or two before I was in communication with the police that I had a week's work with Mr. Webber of Lombard-street—I seldom played dominoes when I had work to do; that was the way in which T amused myself when I had nothing else to do—I did not play for money, I played for beer—I ran up a score at the public-house—there was something due when I first spoke to Bramwell, I don't know how much—I was there playing dominoes when I had nothing better to do, it was my home for a considerable time—I have not the slightest idea how much of

the 4l. 11s. I earned after I saw Bramwell; it could be but very little of it—When I was examined before, I said that 2l. 5s. was the sum that some few jobs amounted to that I then remembered—my regular employment ceased on 19th October; that was with Mr. Miller, of Upper George-street, Bryanston-square, and I had been with him not quite nine weeks, as a journeyman-baker—he discharged me—before that I was with Mr. Glover, of Kensington—that was a fortnight before I went to Mr. Miller—I was seven weeks with Mr. Glover; he did not discharge me, I left because the situation did not suit me—I was not found with some bread in my hat; I never was—I gave Mr. Miller a week-and-a-half's notice; that was how I left—I would not work twenty hours out of twenty-four, that was all—that was the reason entirely—before that I had a situation in Vauxhall-walk, with Mr. Horlock—I went there on Easter-Sunday, and left a week before Whitsuntide; that was six-weeks—I left on 15th May, and went to Mr. Glover's on 20th June—I was not out of a situation all that time, I went into the country for a fortnight, not to work—I gave Mr. Horlock warning to leave—as to the number of hours, the situation was everything I wished, but he was a very great black-guard—he used some strong language to me—he did not say that I had any bread of his, nor money either—I was never a baker in Pimlico, that I am aware of—I know that I never stole broad to put in my hat—Pimlico is a part that I am very little acquainted with—I don't exactly know where it is—I had a situation in Westminster, with Mr. Urry, I think, in Bowling-street—that was a week or two before I went to Mr. Horlock's—I was only with him a week and two nights—I left him because I could not get on—I could not please myself or him—I left him on the Tuesday, and I think on the following Sunday I went to Mr. Eames, in High-street, Bloomsbury—I was only there three nights—I only went in for a job; I left on the Wednesday—then I made some buns for Mr. Gray, at the corner of Whitcomb-street and James-street, that was only a job; I think it was Good-Friday that same week—I do not know Eccleston-square, or Warwick-square, Pimlico—I mean to say that I have never been charged with having my master's bread, and no four horses will bring any employer here that will speak against me, that is more—I have once before been to a bank with a forged bill or cheque; I do not know whether it was a bill or a cheque; a Mr. Brown employed me then—he was a countryman of mine; he wrote to me from Oxford—he did not impose upon me, he only gave me the trouble to go to the Strand—I did not know it was forged when I went with it—my directions were to get a 100l. note, cut it in halves and send it to him one half at a time; therefore I should not have got a great deal of profit—the cheque was sent up to me—I did not communicate with the police then—I did not communicate with them at all; I took it to the gentleman that it was forged upon, they gave it me back at the bank, and gave me the gentleman's address—I took it to him, and then immediately wrote to my friend at Oxford, to tell him it was a forgery—it was to Coutts' bank I went—I first saw Foster in Red-Lion-street, on 22d March, and went with him to the public-house in the court that loads into Red-Lion-square, the first passage nearest Holborn; I do not remember who keeps that house—it is a very large one, I believe it was formerly Mr. E. T. Smith's house—it was a very busy time, both the barman and the landlord were very busy; it was supper-time, and it was in the jug department—I saw the landlord; I am not sure whether it was he or the barman that waited upon us; it was one or the other I believe—there was an elderly gentleman and a stout lady there—I had two pennyworth of gin and water—I had it standing at the bar—we were there about half an

hour—the persons who came and pushed the door open, pushed open the door leading from the street—I was standing at the bar, and sometimes sitting on the edge of a barrel. At the Orange Tree I did not see the land-lord; I saw his brother; he is barman there—I have known him several years—he supplied us with part of the beer there—I could not recognise any one else who served us—I saw several people there—I have not been in a position to take a situation since I have been employed by the police—my wife earns a little money at a laundry—she has a friend close by that she can go to sometimes three days in a week; a boarding-house, kept by her sister, where she can get anything that is necessary—I don't know what they pay her—I have received some money since this has been going on; two sovereigns and a half during the whole time; and on one occasion I was in attendance nearly the whole of the day, and the clerk gave me two shillings to get refreshment—I have had nothing besides money—I was dressed as I am now when I first went to Bramwell, unless I had on my working clothes; this has been my best suit for months, I had them new when I went to Mr. Miller's—I was living in the front kitchen in Church-street, Soho—I bad been some time in Grafton-place when I communicated with the police; I had one room on the second floor there—I am there still; I moved there before I received anything from the police—I think I had communicated with them—I never received any promise from them—I was at Mr. Mullen's office when Bateman was brought there—I have been there several times; it might be a dozen, I should not think it was more—the money I have mentioned is all I have received from any one.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE (for Bramwell). Q. Had you been in the habit of going to the Three Crowns before you saw Bramwell there? A. I had—it was some time in February that I first made his acquaintance; the nearest I can say is about three weeks before the 22d February—during that three weeks our intimacy sprang up—we had several games of dominoes together; we never went out together—I think we did once take a walk one night down the Haymarket—that was not to look for any one in particular—I did not tell him that I thought I should meet my wife there, who had gone to see a friend in the Haymarket—we never went to any place of amusement together—during these three weeks we became sufficiently intimate for him to propose this business to me, it appears.

Q. How can you account for his being induced to open this very serious and criminal matter to you after three weeks' acquaintance? A. I can explain one thing; I am aware that he was present when I spoke in the tap room of the circumstance of going to Messrs. Coutts' with the forged cheque or bill—I could not at that time say what cause it was that induced him to speak to me—it was not looking at the account of Chandler's case in the newspaper that first led to the conversation about forgeries—he spoke to me about a case that was remanded at Bow-street, I believe, from Tuesday to Tuesday—I did not know what case it was at the time—he did not refer to the report of Chandler's case—he spoke of a case, showing that he was not afraid to go to a police-court, although he had been stopped—he did not say, that seeing Chandler's case remanded, he would go down to see if he was the man that had given him the forged cheque—I do not believe that it was then that I told him I had been unfortunate enough to present a forged cheque—I believe no such conversation occurred; I have no recollection of it; I will swear no such conversation occurred—what I have told you was the way in which he spoke of the case—he said he was determined to go, and he would go to hear a case that was remanded on the Tuesday—he never told me whether it was or was not

the person who had entrapped him in presenting a forged cheque, or any thing of the kind—the conversation about his putting on a bold face and appearing at this case that was remanded, occurred after I had spoken of presenting the cheque or bill—I mentioned it in the public tap-room, not in any private conversation with Bramwell—it was at the end of three weeks that he made the proposal to me—he told me at once that he wanted me to present a cheque on the cross—I thought it was not very straightforward—I knew the meaning of the words "on the cross;" he must be a very ignorant man that does not know that; I am not quite so ignorant as that—he said that everything should be done to show my innocence; it was all said at once; I don't say that he kept on spirting it out straight on—when he asked me if I would present a cheque on the cross, he explained it, and I said I would give him Ian answer to-morrow—I might have said something as he went on—I might have answered him various questions; I don't remember, I allowed him to have it all his own way—I have stated as nearly as possible what he said—very probably I do not remember all he said—he suggested the advertising for a baker—he said the amount of the cheque would be a good one, and I was to have 50l.—the conversation about the advertisement occurred at Hammond's—I don't know why he got me to copy it, and left the original in my possession—I did not ask him to write an advertisement for me for a porter's place—he said he should do it; I did not ask him—he did not ask why I wanted a porter's place—I might have told him I was tired of night work, because I really am—I never wished him to Write air advertisement for me—I deny it on my oath—I took very good care not to lose the advertisement that he wrote; he turned out of the door, leaving this on the counter, and I picked it up, and put it in my pocket, I thought it would be useful—I gave him the one I wrote—I never could see any object in having it copied—there was some conversation respecting whether it should be in the Times or the Advertiser, he never spoke of the Daily Telegraph—I was not well acquainted with the Orange Tree—T knew the landlord's brother when he was in a different line of business—I do not know that I was ever in the Orange Tree before that time, I might have been; I don't remember I had never been there with Bramwell previous to Wednesday, the 23d—Foster made the appointment at that house—I don't think I made it with Bramwell—I don't recollect seeing Bramwell after the appointment was made by Foster, until I met him there—I have never borrowed money from Bramwell; I have no recollection of ever borrowing a farthing of him—I will swear I have not—I will swear positively that he did not go to my lodging on the Sunday evening to get back five shillings that he had lent me—he never lent me five shillings while we were playing at skittles—I have played at skittles; not a great deal, not for money; perhaps I have played at dominoes for a penny or twopence—I never won money from Bramwell at dominoes; I think I gave him up best—I mean he was a better player than I—I never played him at skittles—I am really married—my wife is a laundress—she washes for Nos. 2 and 3, Euston-square, which are lodging-houses, and a few journeyman bakers—she washes at 10, Grafton-place—she has the use of the wash-house.

Q. Did you live upon that 4l. 11s. from October to March? A. Well, I generally provide for a rainy day; I was not without a few pounds when I came out of Mr. Miller's employ, because I never earn my money like a horse, and spend it like an ass, as is the case with a good many—I had saved money in my former situations—I had a few pounds, not many, five or six, and there was my wife's earnings to be added—here is the laundry book if

you like to peruse it—the laundry department varies very much—some weeks it was 18s. 5d. another 13s. 1 1/2 d. and 5s. 1 1/2 d.—she occasionally pays a woman to assist her, but very seldom—the forged bill that I had, I left with the gentleman in Lincoln's Inn-fields whose name was forged—he never did anything about it—it was his own brother that committed the forgery—I believe Brown is still in the same place at Oxford.

MR. BODKIN. Q. How long ago is it since that transaction took place? A. I believe it was in 1851—I have been attending at Mr. Mullens' office from time to time while the inquiries have been going on about this case before the magistrate—Mr. Mullens desired me to not to take any fresh situation until this matter was concluded—he has given me altogether 2l. 12s. for my support—that is the whole I have received—I was asked before the magistrate about the places where I had been employed, and I told them, so that they could have inquired if they thought fit—there is not the slightest foundation for suggesting that I have ever stolen bread, or been charged with it—in the course of conversation at the Three Crowns, Bramwell was aware that I was in poor circumstances—he knew that I was running up a score, and not paying for what I had—he knew that before he proposed this matter to me—a person named Chisholm keeps the Three Crowns—I communicated to him what had passed between us a few days afterwards, after I had spoken to the police—the proposal was made to me on Sunday, and I communicated with the police on the next Monday morning, and from time to time I have told them what was going on.

MR. DOYLE. Q. Did not you know that Bramwell was carrying on a business in his own name as a furniture dealer. A. I did not—I have never been to his house—I have not had one of his cards as a furniture dealer—I never knew him by the name of Bramwell until the day he was taken into custody.

JONATHAN FEETUM . I keep an account at the Union Bank—the signature to this cheque is not my writing, nor was it written by my authority—some time ago, in consequence of a communication made to me by the bank, I altered my cheque signature—this is the mode in which I used to sign my cheques, but not the way in which I signed them on 23d March last—I now sign in full—this other piece of paper was not written by me or by my authority.

CHARLES WEBB I am an inspector of police at the Vine-street station—on Monday, 28th February last, the witness Watkins came to me and made a communication—I am not certain whether it was at noon or in the evening—he has from time to time made different communications to me, down to the time that Bramwell was taken into custody, and I have from time to time given him instructions how to act.

WILLIAM CHISHOLM I keep the three crowns, in Richmond-street—I know the witness Watkins, and have done so very nearly three years—the Three Crowns is a very old house of call for bakers—I know the prisoner Bramwell, under the name of Brown, by seeing him frequently at my house for a period of about two months; it may be nearly three months from the present time—I cannot say that I have seen him with any one, only with Watkins; I have often seen them in company together—Bramwell has occasionally come to my house and asked for Watkins. sometimes twice in a day—in February, Watkins made some communication to me; I believe it was in February; I will not be quite certain; I cannot say the date—since that communication was made to me, my attention has been called to Watkins and Bramwell being together; sometimes I have seen them together

three and four evenings a week—I have seen Foster and Humphreys in my house; I cannot say how often.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. How long has Watkins frequented your house? A. It may be two years and nine months—not constantly, as, a house of call—sometimes they are in employment and sometimes out—when he was out of employment he was at my house—he lodged with me sometimes—when he was out of employment he was there very nearly every day—he played at dominoes, and sometimes at skittles, but very seldom—there is a skittle yard attached to our house—it was very seldom I saw him playing—I have sent beer into the skittle-ground; they play for beer, and at dominoes also—that has not gone on ever since I have known him—I should say he has only played at dominoes for about six months—that is the last time of his being out of employment—I don't think I ever saw him play at skittles above four times since he has used the house—I never play—I did not teach him dominoes; I think he is too apt a scholar.

Cross-examined by MR. TINDAL ATKINSON (for Humphreys). Q. Who called your attention first to to the fact of Foster and Humphreys being at your house. A. My wife—she was not taken to the police-office to see the men—I don't think she has seen them since they have been in custody—she could tell who they were from the description—various persons gave a description of them; I cannot say who—I am not aware that one of them, was a police-officer—a great number of police-officers have been to my house connected with this inquiry—they have not been talking to my wife about these men; not in my presence—I never said that I saw Foster and Humphreys there together—I have seen them there at separate times occasionally.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE., Q. All you know about Bramwell, is that he frequented your house like other persons. A. Just so—he played dominoes with Watkins—I have not seen Bramwell in company with either Foster or Humphreys.

HENRY LAMBOURN . I am a journeyman baker—I was lodging at the Three Crowns public-house in Richmond-street on 1st March last—I recollect Bramwell coming in there one night—he asked me if Watkins had been—I told him he had not—he said, if he should come he wanted to see him that evening, and he must see him.—I was to give him that message—Watkins did come in some hour and a half, after and I gave him the message—I think that was on 20th March—on the Tuesday following, the 22d, I heard Bramwell tell the waiter that if Watkins should come he was to tell him to meet him at the corner of Bed Lion-street, in Holborn, at 8 o'clock that evening.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. On the Sunday evening, did Bramwell say where Watkins was to meet him? A. He did not—he did not say what he wanted him for—I did not hear him say that Watkins owed him money—I first spoke about this when I was taken to the police-court—I never told anyone about it but Watkins, of course I gave the message to him—I am in work now.

JANE SANDGROVER . I am the wife of Peter Sandgrover, of No. 10, Grafton-place, Euston-square—the witness Watkins lodged at my house and does so still—on Sunday, 20th March, I remember a person calling at my house and leaving a message—it was Bramwell—he asked if Watkins was at home—he was not—he asked me to tell him that he was to meet him at the corner of Swinton-street, Gray's Inn-road, on the Monday morning at 8 o'clock, or, if not, at 11 o'clock in the day—he came again on Monday to

ask if I had delivered the message to Watkins, and I told him I had—I had done so.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. Had you ever seen Bramwell before that. A. No—I am quite sure he is the person that called—I gave this evidence because I was called upon to do so by a gentleman from the police-office—I saw Bramwell at Marlborough-street—Watkins came to lodge at my house on the Saturday week before Bramwell called—his wife lives there with him—they do not carry on any business—they occupy one room on the second floor—they do their washing at home, in my wash-house—she does what she can get to do—some weeks she gets more than others—she gets her living by washing—she does not employ any person to assist her—she does not make much by it; I don't know how much—they pay 3s. 6d. a week rent.

ROBERT DALRYMPLE . I am waiter at the Three Crowns in Richmond-street, Soho—I know Bramwell—he has been in the habit of frequenting the Three Crowns many times; I can answer for within the last four months—I have known Watkins six or seven years—he was in the habit of coming to the Three Crowns in the early part of this year—I have seen him and Bramwell there at the same time, and in conversation together—in my occupation I might not have noticed it particularly; but I have seen them on several occasions talking together and in company—on Tuesday evening, 22d March, I remember Bramwell calling and asking if Watkins had been there—I said he had not—he told me if he came to tell him that he had made the appointment to meet him at the corner of Red Lion-street at 8 o'clock that evening, to the minute—I told him there were two ends to Red Lion-street, the Theobald's-road end, and the Holborn, and he said it was the Holborn end—he called again a second time that same evening before I saw Watkins, and left the same message—I subsequently saw Watkins before 8 o'clock, and gave him the message.

Cross-examined by MR. ATKINSON. Q. How long have you been waiter at this place? A. About three months and a half—I have known Watkins for six years as a baker—I have only been a waiter at this house for the last three months.

COURT. Q. I understood you to say that you had seen Bramwell there; you could answer for the last four months. A. Between three and four mouths, only since I have been waiter there—I can't say to the day, but I have been there about three months, or three months and a half as near as possible.

SARAH MARY WATKINS . I am the wife of the witness George Watkins—on Tuesday, 22d, March last, Bramwell called and asked for my husband—I said he was not at home; he could leave a message—I said that he had gone to answer a letter that he had received from an advertisement—he said he should like to know the result of the letter—he asked me for some paper—I gave him an envelope and he wrote something upon it—this is it (produced)—I lent him a lead pencil to write it with, and he wrote it against the wall on this old envelope which I had in my pocket—this is what he wrote: "Meet me at 8 o'clock, at the corner of Red Lion-street, Holborn, to the minute.—W. Adams."—he came again after that, after Foster was locked up—I will not be positive when it was—it was the next day, or the day after—he asked for Watkins as usual.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. On 22d March you say he called first? A. Yes—I can't be sure whether it was the next day, or the day after, that he came again—I have tried my memory but I cannot recollect

—it was after Foster had been apprehended—it was not on the Tuesday—I would not be sure about the Wednesday.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFH. Q. Have you seen Mr. Mullens often about this matter? A. Not separately, only at Marlborough-street—I was examined at the police-court—I have not been to Mr. Mullens' office—my husband has given me some money—I have not received any, not from the police, or from anybody—I have taken in a little needlework, and other work since he has been out of employment—sometimes washing, and some-times I have gone out charing—I have employment every day—I have the particulars in a book if you wish to see it—I keep accounts of what I earn, my husband has the book with him—I gave it to him because I have been in the country for some time in employment—I always put down the memorandums of my employment—I gave it to my husband to bring here in case it was necessary to be known that we had employment.

ELIZABETH HAMMOND . I am the wife of William Hammond—we keep the Swinton Arms beer-shop, at the corner of Swinton-street, Gray's Inn-road—I remember seeing the witness Watkins at our house in March last—another person was with him, who I cannot recognise—one of them asked for pen, ink, and paper, and I saw Watkins write something on a piece of paper.

Cross-examined by MR. DOTLE. Q. You do not know the day on which this happened? A. No—I had never seen Watkins before to my knowledge—I have seen him since—it appears they made an appointment to meet at our house the next day—Watkins came and he asked me if Bramwell had been there—he did not use the name of Bramwell—he asked if the same person had been there that had been with him the day before—I saw the name of Bramwell in the papers—Inspector Webb came to me, and took me to Marlborough-street police-court—they asked me if I could identify Bramwell—but I could not—I knew Watkins quite well, but not the other—I said I could not recognise him as being the same party—I did not say he was not the person.

JOSEPH TURNHAM . I reside at the Orange Tree, in the New-road, at the corner of George-street—I manage it for my brother—I know Watkins the baker—I have seen him at our house—I saw him there on the morning of 23d March, about 10 o'clock, and the prisoners Foster and Bramwell with him—they were all three together—they were there about twenty minutes or half-an-hour—I believe they came in together—I saw them together in the house—I did not see them go away—I believe Humphreys and Wagner came in afterwards—I could not swear to them, but I believe they did—I think they were the other two—I think I have seen Wagner there before—I would not swear it, but I think so—I would not swear that I saw Wagner and Humphreys there on that day—I believe they were there—I think I saw them there that day—I am sure I have seen them there—I believe it was after the others had left.

Cross-examined by MR. ATKINSON. Q. But you are not certain as to that with regard to Humphreys? A. No; my belief is that they were there that day, but I will not swear to those two—nobody has been talking to me about this—I have not mentioned it to anybody—I was before the magistrate—I went there by myself, not in company with any police officer—I think Watkins told me he wanted me there—he asked me if I recollected who was there that day—I had no conversation with him, more than his wanting me to come to the police-office—he mentioned the day he was there with Bramwell—I knew the day—he did not mention anything to me—he said he wanted me at Marlborough-street to recognise a party.

Cross-examined by MR. MITCALFE. Q. Do you say that Foster and Bramwell were there with Watkins once, or more than once, on that day? A. Only once.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. Had Watkins been there before that day? A. No, I had not seen him for a long while before, not for years—he did not know I was there until he saw me there, at least not that I know of—it was a day or two after he was there that he told me he wanted me to go to the police-office to recognise a party.

HENRY JOY (Policeman, A 388). On 23d March last I was in the New-road, near the Orange Tree—I saw Watkins there—I was there for the purpose of observing what passed—I saw him when he first came up—he was alone—I next saw Bramwell—he and Watkins went into the Orange Tree—I did not hear what they said—they spoke together before they went in—in about ten minutes or a quarter of an hour Watkins came out, and went away alone—I watched him home to Grafton-place—I went again to the Orange Tree at 11 o'clock—I saw Watkins go into the house—a few minutes afterwards I saw Foster and Watkins come out together—they went down Grower-street, towards the University hotel—when they got near there Foster pointed towards the hotel—Watkins then went on by himself, and went into the hotel—he was there about a minute and a half—he then came out again—I did not see any one follow him out—Foster was outside, a little way from the hotel—he did not go in at all—they went away together—when I was at the Orange Tree, before they went towards the University Hotel, I saw the prisoner Humphreys—he came out of the Orange Tree with another man—I cannot tell who that man was, he is not present—they followed in the same direction that Watkins and Foster went—they went down Grafton-street and University-street into Tottenham-court-road—they waited outside the University hotel until Watkins came out, and then they followed after Watkins and Foster—I noticed them as far as the corner of London-street, Tottenham-court-road, and then I lost sight of them—they were both together, arm in arm—I then continued to follow and watch Watkins and Foster—I saw some paper in Watkins' hand in Grafton-street—he handed it to Foster—I then got into a shop, and I saw that it was the same colour as the cheque that I afterwards found at the bank—there was writing on it—Foster kept it, walked on a few steps, and then he returned it again—it was a piece of paper about the size of this cheque, and it had the same stamp apparently as this represents—I was in a shop when I saw it—by the stamp, I mean this mark in the corner where the pounds are, the letter "L"—I was looking through the window of the shop, and they were close to the window, standing talking together—Foster had it entirely in his own hands for about half a minute—I saw him examine it and return it—he did not return it while they were standing there—they walked on—I followed them to the Union Bank, Argyll-place—Foster remained outside, and Watkins went in—he was inside, I should say, for five or six minutes—I was looking at Foster—he was walking backwards and forwards in front of the bank, looking in that direction—at last he appeared to be very uneasy, and walked away very rapidly towards Great-Marlborough-street—finding that he was was going away, I followed him, and took him into custody—I brought him back to the Union bank—Watkins was there—I asked Foster if he knew Watkins—he said "No"—I said, "Are you certain?"—he said, "No, I never saw him in my life"—I told him he must consider himself in custody for the cheque, and that I had seen him in company with Watkins in the New-road—he said, "No, I have not been in the New-road, and I don't know

him"—he was taken to the station and asked his address—he refused to give it—I told him he was charged with being concerned with others in knowingly uttering a cheque—he said he knew nothing of the cheque, and he had not had it in his possession—I afterwards told him that I saw the cheque in his possession more than once, and he denied it—he was then taken before the magistrate.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. When Foster was brought into the bank, did he not ask the clerk what it all meant? A. I did not hear him; he might have done so—I handed him over to another constable almost immediately—when I was taking him inside the bank he said, "What does this all mean? what am I charged with?"—when I asked him if he knew Watkins, it was not for the purpose of entrapping him by his answer—it was to ascertain whether there was any one else in the bank, as there generally is—if Watkins had been implicated in any way, I should have taken him into custody equally as well as the other—if Foster had said Watkins was implicated, I should have taken him also—I did not question him—I was not uncertain whether he was the person that came from the Orange Tree—if he had said Watkins was implicated, I should not have taken him unless something else transpired—I kept my eye on him—I should have taken him if I had reason to do so—Watkins was never employed by the police—I have talked to him a number of times, but never employed him or paid him money—I knew what was going to be done—I mean, on my oath, to say that if Foster had said Watkins was implicated I should have taken him, and taken him before my superior officers, and that was the reason I told him I had watched them from the New-road—I had not agreed with Watkins that I should get into the shop, and the cheque be shown there—I went in because it was convenient for me to do so—I passed Foster and Watkins as they were standing together, and went into the shop just as the cheque was shown—I had no idea at what bank the cheque was going to be presented—I did not get into the shop for the express purpose of seeing the cheque, but that they should not see me—there were others watching me as well as I was watching them.

JOSEPH BUNGS (Policeman, C 88). On 23d March I was in the New-road with Joy—I know Watkins—I saw him come to the Orange Tree that morning, about a quarter past 10 o'clock—before he went in I saw Bram-well join him—they shook hands and walked inside—I went in also—I was in plain clothes—I saw them standing in front of the bar, and another man with them—I do not know who he was—Watkins then left—I followed him to Grafton-place, Euston-square, and came back to the Orange Tree about ten minutes to 11—Watkins came there at that time—he went into the house with Foster, who came up at the time—one went in a few yards after the other—while they were there, Bramwell came out and looked about, crossed the street, and went back again into the house—Foster and Watkins then came out, and were followed by Joy and me—I saw Humphreys outside the Orange Tree in company with another man, the same man I had seen, but whose name I don't know—that was about half a minute after Watkins and Foster had gone—they followed within fifty yards behind—they followed them to the corner of Grafton-street, I think, and stood there while Watkins went into the University hotel—I stayed there until Watkins came out—he joined Foster at the comer of Sussex-street, I believe—Humphreys and the other man followed Watkin's and Foster into Tottenham-court-road—I there lost sight of Humphreys and the other, and I followed with Joy to the bank—while in University-street

I saw Watkins show Foster a paper—I was standing at the side of them; in fact, I passed close to them, within a foot of them—I do not know where Joy was at that time, he and I were apart—we were acting separately—we were in plain clothes—this was before Humphreys and the other man had left—the paper I saw was in Foster's hand—I saw Watkins give it to him—I was within a foot of them at that time—it was a piece of paper that resembled a cheque I saw at the police-court—Foster gave it back to Watkins—I afterwards assisted in taking Foster into custody at the bank.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. You first saw Foster when he came out from the Orange Tree? A. I first saw him go into the Orange Tree about 11 o'clock—I was there at a quarter or ten minutes past 10—I saw Bramwell and Watkins together then, and they shook hands and went inside—the first I saw of Foster was at 11—I did not know where the cheque was to be shown—that had not been agreed upon between me and Watkins—I had no idea.

JULIA HABRIS . I assist in the management of the University hotel, Grafton-street—I remember on Wednesday, 23d March, a person coming to our coffee-room between 11 and 12 o'clock—I had never seen that person before, to my knowledge—he had a black wrapper round his face, a pair of steel spectacles, and a hat on—this piece of black serge produced is such a thing as he had round his face—it went round his face, and was covered at the top by his hat—he had the spectacles on when he came in—I don't think he took them off—he called for some brandy and water—he had the appearance of an invalid—he stooped a little, and he held his hand over one of his eyes—I did not show him into the coffee-room, he rang the bell and I went in to him, and he asked me for a glass of brandy and water—I got it him—I asked him if I should mix it for him—he requested me to do so—he then asked me to get him the paper—he said his name was Curtis, that he expected a gentleman to call, and I was to send him to him in the coffee-room—nobody else was in the coffee-room at this time—the witness Watkins came and asked for him, and I sent him into the coffee-room—he was there a very short time—the man in the spectacles remained a very short time after Watkins had left—he went out very quickly after Watkins—he paid me for his brandy and water—I believe the prisoner Wagner is the person—I next saw him at Vine-street, on the following Saturday, and I recognized him by his walk and stature, and his face, what I could see of it—by his stature, I mean his size—when I first saw him in Vine-street station he was walking a little stooping—he was in a large room there—he did not continue to walk stooping, he kept himself upright—he changed his posture the moment I went in—I did not speak to him, nor did anybody in my hearing—on my entering the room I recognised him to be the man—he could see me—when I first saw him he held himself a little in a stooping position, the same as when he went out of the coffee-room, and when I went in he held himself upright—there was no window or any place through which I could see him before I went into the room—I do not know who the other parties were that were in the room—I saw Wagner as soon as I went in—I had not seen him before I went into the room—he was in a stooping position, and when I went in he stood upright—I did not see him before he saw me—he saw me at the same moment that I saw him—when he was in our coffee-room I noticed what I could see of his face—all his face was covered by the black cloth, except his nose and mouth—he had dark glasses on his eyes—I mean dark-framed ones—they were like these (looking at a pair produced by Webb)—looking at him now, I believe him to be the person.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON (for Wagner). Q. Is there any waiter at the hotel? A. Yes; one—the waiter did not see him on that day; he was out—no one saw him but me—I can't say exactly how long he was there; about an hour, perhaps, or half-an-hour—I was fetched to the station by Joy, the detective—this piece of black is something like what the man wore—it is the same colour—I did not feel it; I merely looked at it—all I can say is, that it is the same sort of thing—Joy came to the hotel for me—he questioned me about having seen a man there of the name of Curtis—I told him there had been a man there of that name—I think he told me that he had got that man in custody—he did not tell me where he was going to take me; he said he wanted me for a few minutes—I knew he was taking me to see the man—I don't think he showed me this piece of black; it was Joy or Webb, I don't know which, that showed it me—he asked me if that was any thing like the wrapper that Curtis had on—I think he told me he had found it at the man's lodging—he showed me the spectacles—I don't think he told me where he had found them—he asked me if those were the spectacles the man was wearing—having told me this, and that he had got the man in custody, he said I must come and see him—I did not go to the station with my mind made up that the man that was there was the man that had been to the University hotel, not till I saw him—I did not think anything about it till I saw him—I had not made up my mind that he was the man until I saw him—I had not a very strong impression that it was the same man; I don't know that I thought anything about it—there were several persons in the same room where he was shown to me—I don't remember how many; three or four—the policeman did not point him out to me; he asked me if I could see the man that I saw in the coffee-room—the other man were not sitting near him; most of them were standing—I don't know whether they were policemen; some of them were dressed as policemen, I believe—I should say there were three or four dressed in plain clothes, but I did not know what they were; they stood about—I do not remember any of the policemen saying anything to me about this man—he was standing when I went in; he stood in a stooping position, and when he turned round to walk he stood more upright—I don't remember whether he had his hands in his pocket; his head was bent forward, not much; the shoulders were bent a little—I did sot speak to him, or hear him speak—all I say about him is, that I believe him to be the man.

MR. BODKIN. Q. Did the officer who went with you, or anybody there, direct your attention to any one of the persons? A. They did not.

MARIA PROGER . I live at 9, Sussex-street, Tottenham-court-road, with my mother—on 2d March, the prisoner Wagner came to lodge at our house with a female as his wife—they gave the name of Mr. and Mrs. West—before the lodgings were let he was asked for a reference, and he referred to Mrs. Skelton, 56, John-street, Tottenham-court-road—he continued to live at our house until he was taken into custody—I have noticed sometimes when he went out that he wore a black woollen handkerchief, or rag, such as this (produced)—this is it—he used to wear it up as though he had the car-ache—I have not noticed him wearing spectacles—I have seen him go out with the bandage round his face, three or four times within the three weeks he was with us—he occupied the middle room on the third floor.

EDWARD FONNELL . I am one of the detective officers of the city of London—on 26th March I went to 9, Sussex-street, Tottenham-court-road, with Sergeant Webb—I went into a room on the third floor, and there

found Wagner alone—I said, "Good morning, Mr. Wagner"—he said, "My name is not Wagner, you have made a mistake; but what is your pleasure?"—I told him that I was one of the city detective officers, and I had come there to take him into custody—he said, "What for?"—I said, "For being concerned with another man, now in custody, for uttering a forged cheque for 265l. on the Union Bank, in Argyll-place, on 23d March"—he said, "Oh God! I know nothing about it"—I told him he must consider himself in custody, and I then commenced searching the room—there was a hat on a chest of drawers—I have seen him wear a different hat altogether from that—he put that one on when I brought him away; there was only that one—I also found this piece of stuff—I took hold of it, and looked at it, and said, "What is this for?"—he said, "That is what I wear round my head because I am troubled with the rheumatics"—he was then taken away in custody—the lodging is about three minutes' walk from the University hotel—I saw Webb find some spectacles in the same room—on the 28th I went to 4, Red Lion-square, accompanied by Watkins and Sergeant Webb—Webb went in first—I saw the prisoner Humphreys down stairs—he went upstairs with us, and in a room there, between the bed and the mattress, I found a good many things that have no immediate reference to this case—I also went into an inner room, and there I found a great many things that I took possession of—I saw a die taken from Humphreys.

MR. TINDAL ATKINSON objected to evidence being given with respect to any articles found that did not relate immediately to the present charge; the evidence about to be offered referred to the subject matter of another indictment, and could only be introduced here for the purpose of prejudice.

MR. BODKIN was prepared to show that the stamp on the cheque in question was a forged stamp; he could not prove that it was made by this particular die; indeed, it clearly was not; but the possession by the prisoner of a counterfeit die of a similar kind, though not identical with the one in question, would, he apprehended, be admissable evidence for the consideration of the jury, in the same way as the utterings of other forged notes were receivable upon the charge of a tingle uttering.

MR. JUSTICE CHOWDER was of opinion that the evidence was not admissable, inasmuch as it was not proposed to connect it any way with the document now charged to be forged, or with any other document uttered by the prisoners; it differed from the instance referred to, of proving the utterings of other notes, because in that case the evidence was given to show guilty knowledge: here it was offered to prove a fact.

Witness (continued). I took Bramwell into custody at Mr. Mullens' on the 29th—Watkins was there at the time.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Did you happen to be at the Vine-street station when Miss Harris was brought there? A. I was there on one occasion—I did not go into the room with the prisoner, Wagner—I did not see who was in the room with him.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. Bramwell was taken into custody on the 29th? A. Yes; he had come to Mr. Mullens' office to see Mr. Mullens, and when he came in and inquired for Mr. Mullens, he found himself in custody.

HENRY WEBB . I am a sergeant of the city detective police—I went to Humphrey's lodgings on the 28th March—I saw Humphreys go up to the front door, and while he was ringing the bell, I went up to him—I told him I was an officer, and that I should take him into custody for being concerned with Foster, and others, in uttering a forged cheque at the Union

Bank—he said he knew nothing about it—I then said, "You live here"—he said, "This is not my house; I only sleep here"—we went upstairs on to the second floor—on searching the drawers I found some impressions of a die, and this letter (produced).

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Were you at the station when Miss Harris was there to see Wagner? A. I was; I was in the room with Wagner—I was dressed as I am now—there were several other officers there; some in policemen's clothes and some not—I think there were about four in policemen's clothes—they were all policemen there except Wagner and Mr. Mullens—he came into the room afterwards—Wagner sent for him.

MR. BODKIN. Q. Did you accompany Miss Harris to the station? A. No; I was there when she arrived—I did not point out or indicate, any particular person to her.

HORACE EDWARD JAY . I am a clerk at the Union Bank, and was so in 1857; in that year we had a customer named Fallows—this order was presented at our bank in August, 1857, purporting to be signed by Mr. Fallows (read)—"Please let the bearer have a cheque-book for Joseph Fallows, 10, 8, 57"—I in consequence of that I gave a cheque-book, thinking it was for Mr. Fallows; I gave out 100 cheques, letter L, numbered from 50801 to 50900; this cheque (looking at the one charged to be forged) is one of those that I gave out on that occasion—at that time no stamp was necessary.

ZOSEPH FALLOWS . I am a solicitor—this order for a cheque-book is not my writing, or written by my authority; I know nothing about it—this letter found at Humphrey's lodgings is my writing; I addressed that letter to Humphreys at the time it bears date—the signature to it is my own; the signature to the order for the cheque-book is a very close imitation of that signature.

Cross-examined by MR. ARKINSON. Q. I suppose you have written your same in that way to other persons? A. very frequently—hundreds of other persons besides Humphreys may have notes of that character with the same signature—I used to sign my name exactly in that way—the other part of the letter was written by a person in my office—I was concerned for Humphreys in settling the terms of the lease of a house.

EDWIN HILL . I am supervisor of stamps and inspector of postage-stamps at Somerset-house—the Act which makes it necessary to have a penny stamp upon a banker's cheque came into operation in May, 1858—I think the stamp on this cheque is certainly not a stamp affixed by an authorised die—we should affix a stamp upon an old cheque like this if it was presented in blank—I cannot say that it is our habit to stamp single cheques, because I don't suppose such an instance ever occurred, merely because nobody ever presented one—we should do it if presented, but I never knew of such a case occurring—if anybody had a cheque-book with five, six, or ten cheques in it, we should stamp them if required; but they generally come in large numbers—I have examined this stamp with a magnifying glass, but it is exceedingly faint—I do not believe it to be a genuine stamp.

RICHARD MULLENS . I am one of the solicitors for the prosecution—on 13th February last I received a letter from the prisoner Wagner; this is it—that was before he was in custody—I saw him about it after he was in custody, at his request (read)—"10, York-buildings, Adelphi, February 12th, 1859.—Messrs Bush and Mullens, solicitors—Gentlemen,—I hope you will excuse the liberty I take in addressing myself to you; but as you are the solicitors for the protection of bankers against fraud, and particularly

forgery, I believe you to be the most proper persons to write to, as I wish to make very useful propositions for the benefit of bankers. The accounts in the newspapers every week sufficiently show, that by all care the bankers lose large sums, which, in the course of a year, must necessarily amount to something considerable. Being confident that I am introduce to the bankers, without additional labour or expense, a simple contrivance to reduce forgery on them at least 90 per cent., I beg to ask you, gentlemen, if you will be good enough to communicate with the bankers, and to make them my offer. Further, I beg to say that as I am (to say the least of it) a marked man, whom the police would never allow to earn in London, or even England, an honest living—although I and in no fear whatever to be mixed up with any forgery, as I have never forged—never sent anybody with a forgery—never presented any forgery for payment—never changed the produce of a forgery, &c., since my liberation in 1856. I wish to leave England with my family forever, provided I can get a handsome remuneration for my secret. Besides, as no doubt you wish to get at the fountain head; that is to say, you wish to know who manufacture nearly all forgeries on bankers within the last fifteen years, I am willing to give such information, and assist you in every possible way to lay hold of a whole gang, whose intentions are to commit a good many more forgeries, and who are able to do so, &c.; but only on certain conditions. The conditions are:—Firstly.—My name must not transpire in any way whatever, as such would spoil my services in toto. Secondly.—Myself, as well as my brother-in-law (Mr. Bateman), must receive a guarantee in writing not to be mixed up or prosecuted for anything that may transpire by such information; and Thirdly.—I want 1000l. (a small percentage on the sums yearly lost) for my secret and full information. If my offer and conditions should be considered by you worthy of acceptance, an answer directed to me under the above mentioned direction and marked "private," would, in the course of the week, be forwarded to me, when, without any delay, I shall arrange everything to your satisfaction through my solicitor.—I am, Gentlemen, your most obedient and most humble servant, W. Wagner." It was six weeks after receiving that letter that I saw Wagner, after he was in custody—I received that letter in February; I did not answer it; I took no notice of it whatever—when he was in custody I received a message requesting me to go to the Vine-street station—I went there, and went into the large room that has been spoken of, where he was walking about—he addressed me by name, and asked me if it was not better worth my while to avail myself of his services than to prosecute him—I said that under the circumstances, which were known to both of us, it was quite impossible that I could listen to any such request—he said that I had formed a prejudice against him; that he could assure me he had nothing to do with any forgeries whatever—I said it was very well for him to say so, but how could he give me the information he had promised if he were not connected with them in some way—he said he might very well know about it; but whatever he had done, he had done nothing that the law could lay hold of—I said, "It is no use your talking to me in that way; why did you run away when Chandler was taken into custody?—you left York-buildings on that morning, and have never been back since"—he said, "I did not wish my name to be mixed up with Chandler; he was only my clerk"—I said I did not think if my clerk had committed a forgery, that I should run away unless I was mixed up with it—he said he thought it better to go away—he then asked me again if I would avail myself of his services instead of prosecuting

him—I said, No; I would have nothing to do with him, and I then left him—this was on Saturday, 26th March, immediately after he was taken into custody, just before going to the police-court—I saw Miss Harris at the station; she arrived there before I did—she went into the room while I was there—when I went into the room Wagner was walking very slowly up and down in a stooping position; directly I spoke to him he drew himself up quite stiff and upright, and so he stood while I was talking to him; but directly I left him he went again into a stooping dejected kind of position.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON; Q. When did you make up your mind to give this evidence? A. I have made up my mind to give it throughout—I mentioned it in consultation—I did not mention it before the magistrate—I did not tell Wagner that everything he said to me would be given in evidence; he did not require that caution, and I did not think it necessary to give it him—I had certainly no intention of listening to any proposal on his part—I did not mention this to the magistrate, because I was conducting the case as the attorney, and examining the witnesses myself—Mr. Lewis (the prisoner's solicitor), was perfectly aware that I was going to put the letter in evidence, and to give evidence; it has been a matter of conversation between us—I did not think it necessary to put in the letter at the police-court—I exercised my discretion in the matter—I had no doubt as to whether I would give this evidence.

MR. BODKIN. Q. I suppose you had known Wagner before? A. Yes, very well indeed—he was not a person I thought it at all necessary to caution.

As MR. BODKIN now proposed to go into evidence of other forgeriesMR. RIBTON objected; first, because those forgeries were the subjects of other indictments; and, secondly, because this was a case in which, from the very nature of it, it was not necessary to bring forward such evidence in order to show guilty knowledge, the only ground upon which it could be receivable; if the evidence already given was believed, it was impossible for the jury to doubt the guilty knowledge of the parties implicated, and the evidence about to be offered, in reality, was intended to be used to establish the identity of Wagner; a purpose for which it was not legitimately admissable. MR. JUSTICE CROWDER was of opinion, that it was impossible to exclude the evidence; its effect upon the different parties must be matter of comment by Counsel.

(Adjourned until to-morrow.) Friday, May 13th, 1859.

MR. RIBTON TO MR. MULLENS . Q. Do you, upon reflection, adhere to the statement you made yesterday; that you mentioned to Mr. Lewis, at the police-court, that you intended to give evidence and produce the letter? A. I said that it was a matter of conversation between us—I mentioned to Mr. Lewis on Tuesday morning last that I intended to give evidence—he put the question to me.

MR. BODKIN. Q. You hall Spoken of it before, I believe? A. Mr. Lewis was quite aware of the letter before that; he asked me at this court, last Tuesday, whether I meant to give the letter in evidence and the conversation, but he was aware at the police-court of the letter I had received, and that was no doubt the reason why he put the question.

MR. RIBTON. Q. Was he aware of the conversation you had with Wagner at the station? A. Not the details of it; but the fact of Wagner having made the proposition to me in general terms—I mentioned it to him.

WILLIAM WHITEHEAD CHANDLER . I am now in custody in Newgate—I pleaded guilty at the last session to several charges of forgery—I know the prisoner Wagner—I became acquainted with him about May or June, 1857—I was very poorly off at that time—I was introduced to him for the purpose of discounting a bill—he was represented to me as a person who discounted; that was my first introduction to him—I explained to him what I wanted,—he took the particulars, and that interview ended without anything being done—I did not get the bill discounted; I saw him soon after.

Q. Shortly after that, in the summer of 1857, was there any other transaction in which you and Wagner were both engaged? A. The first transaction with Wagner was some forgery in the city; I think on the Union Bank, in Princes'-street—I do not think that was Mr. Aitkins' cheque—I recollect this cheque perfectly well (looking at one for 375l., dated 11th Sept. 1858)—I got that from Wagner: I did not get it cashed—there were several forged before that—I recollect Mr. Aitkins' cheque perfectly well; it was given to me by Wagner—an arrangement was made that some man should be sent for the money—Humphreys was to find a man to go with the cheque; that was arranged between Wagner, myself and Humphreys; and to protect that man from any difficulty, he was to advertise for a situation, and it was arranged that I should answer the advertisement, and meet him at some hotel—I do not know that man—I should know him again—there was a man whom I met, it was on the day following this arrangement; he put in an advertisement, and I met him the following day in St. Martin's-court, in the neighbourhood of Leicester-square, at the Crown coffee-house, I think it was—I gave that man the cheque and started him into the city—Bateman and Wagner followed, watching my movements with this man—I went into the city to meet Humphreys in Monument-yard—I did meet him, and Wagner and Bateman came presently and told Humphreys that the man had received the money—Humphreys then went to the place appointed, where he had previously arranged to meet that man, and received a 300l. note; this is the note (produced), I know it by the name at the back, in my handwriting—this note was taken into the Bank of England by myself first, for the purpose of getting it changed, but I saw some one there that I knew, and I did not get it changed, I returned it to Wagner; he gave it to Bateman, and Bateman went into the Bank of England and got it changed—by Wagner's direction I afterwards went to Spielman's, the moneychanger's, in Lombard-street, with part of the proceeds of that note in notes, and I received foreign money for them, part gold and part notes; part of that foreign money was a 1000 franc note—I gave the whole of the money to Wagner, and he gave the notes to Bateman, who went to Smart's, in Leicester-square, and received a cheque for 40l.; this is the cheque (produced)—a copy of this cheque was taken by Bate-man; myself and Wagner were present at the time—it was taken by Wagner's direction and the consent of all parties, in fact; it was taken by the arrangement of us all, I mean Wagner, myself, and Bateman—Bateman made the copy—before this Wagner had said, he knew Smart to be a man of property, but he did not know exactly where he banked—the copy was taken on tracing-paper—shortly afterwards a blank form of cheque was taken by Humphreys on Drummond's, it was a printed form; this is it (produced)—at that time no stamp was impressed upon it; we had ascertained that stamps were in general use at this time—we made no particular inquiries about Messrs. Drummonds using stamped forms of cheques, it was generally known at that time—Smart's cheque had the stamp on, and we knew it was generally the case—when this

cheque was prepared ready for filling up, a stamp was made for the purpose—I mean a die to make a stamp for the purpose of using the cheque—that was agreed amongst ourselves,—the stamp was afterwards impressed on this cheque by that die—the body of the cheque was filled up by Bateman, as it now is, leaving out the date until it was agreed to be used—the word January was pat to it, but not the day of the month—it was filled up in the presence of Wagner and myself, by Bateman—Bateman said, in Wagner's presence, that he knew a man of the name of Jones who would find a man to go for the money—after two or three interviews with Jones, he proposed a man of the name of Bramwell, who would fetch the money—Jones came down; I saw him at York-buildings, Wagner's house; I and Bateman and Wagner were present—Jones said that Bramwell was taking care of an empty house, somewhere in the neighbourhood of Soho, and that the house was to be let upon the terms that whoever took it was to pay 20l. deposit, and to protect Bramwell from any difficulty—it was proposed that a letter should be written to him as if from some one who had seen the house and liked it, and would take it—I saw the letter written by Bateman; this is it; it was sent by post (read),—"January 19th, 1859. To Mr. Bramwell Sir, I saw your wife this day about the house, but cannot call to-morrow as intended. I shall not fail to see you on Friday morning; I hardly see what 20l. deposit is required for. Yours, G. Wilson."—It was afterwards proposed that another letter should be Written—Jones proposed it—it was written in Wagner and Bateman's presence, at York-buildings—that letter was making it appear that the cheque was in. closed in it,—both these letters were put into the post; I posted one; they were not put in at the same time—I can hardly say how soon after the first the second was posted—I don't recollect;—this is it (read), "January 20th, 1859. To Mr. Bramwell. Dear sir, I beg to inclose you a cheque for 270l. which you will oblige by getting cashed, deducting your 20l. for the house, and I will call early in the morning for the remainder. Yours, G. Wilson,"—That letter purports to contain the cheque, but it did not in fact contain it—the cheque was given to Jones, the date was first put on it, the 20th January, that is the same date as the second letter that was written; that was done at York-buildings—Jones was to give the cheque to Bramwell to send him with it for the money, and it was arranged that, on the road from Bramwell's house to Drummond's, he should come through Trafalgar-square, past the Nelson column, in order that Wagner and Bateman might see Bramwell and watch his movements at Drummond's—next morning, 21st, I went to York-buildings (I was daily there), Wagner and Bateman were out when I got there; they came in to the best of my recollection about 12 o'clock—Jones came back first to York-buildings; he made some communication to me—when Wagner and Bateman came in they entered into conversation, and Jones told them that Bramwell had not received the money, that he was given into custody, or rather that an officer had gone with Bramwell to the house—a good deal of conversation took place between Jones, Bateman, Wagner, and myself; and Wagner would not believe but what the man had the money—he said he believed that Jones and Bramwell were putting their heads together to rob him of the money—he said that in the presence of Jones, Bateman, and myself; and he at last proposed that he and Bateman should go and look over the house in Soho that Bramwell was taking care of, to see if there really was an officer there or not; and they went from York-buildings for the purpose of going to Bramwell's house—they were absent nearly two hours—when they returned Bateman was smoking a cigar—he said that he had been

over the house and there really was a man there who they presumed to be an officer; that he was smoking a pipe; and Bateman laughed and said, "Well, let him bean officer or not I have lighted my cigar from his pipe"—a female, named Fairbairn, was living in York-buildings at that time—I remember some time ago a forged order being prepared to get a pass book of Mr. Feetum's—this (produced) is the order; it was prepared by a man of the name of Kerp—it is upon the Union-bank, Argyll-place—I cannot say whether Kerp brought it to York-buildings—I saw him give it to Wagner—Wagner gave it to me, and wished me to send some boy for the book—I sent a boy; he and I went up into the neighbourhood of the bank; Wagner followed the boy to see whether he really got the book or not—he stood outside the bank; I stopped at an appointed place which Wagner and I had arranged, I think it was in King's-street opposite the bank, looking down into Beak-street at the back of Regent-street—Wagner came to me there in a short time, and told me that a clerk had come out of the bank with the boy—I had stopped at my appointed place; I had employed the boy, and I was to receive the book from the boy, but upon this Wagner and I walked away, and nothing further took place—Kerp lived in John-street, Fitzroy-square, at the house of a Mrs. Skelton—that was not the only occasion upon which Kerp's services were used—his services were used repeatedly by Wagner; Wagner employed him—Mr. Aitkin's cheque was prepared by Kerp, it was the one actually used—Mr. Aitkin's signature was obtained in this way, two letters were brought to Wagner by Humphreys, written by Mr. Aitkin with reference to some hounds, and in that way we got the signature—I remember a cheque being prepared of a person named Chambers—Kerp prepared the original one in that case; it was a check for 440l. on Drummond's—the one that Kerp prepared was not the one that was actually used, for Wagner had had some quarrel with Kerp about something or other, and he wished to defraud him of his share of the cheque, and he proposed that Bateman and I should try if we could take a copy of the forged cheque which Kerp had prepared—Bateman and I accordingly made several copies, this (produced) is one of them, and it was upon this that the money was obtained; this was written by me—Wagner considered it the best; it was an exact copy—the words, lf No effects," were written upon Kerp's cheque, and it was given back to him—Wagner had several interviews with Kerp about it, at his house, I believe; but I was not present—Wagner told me that he had returned the cheque—he was constantly at Kerp's lodging, ever since I have known him—I knew that Kerp had a place of concealment for articles of this character; it was the bottom of a slop-pail; it was an ordinary slop-pail, but the bottom of it unscrewed; this is it (produced)—it was kept in actual use as a slop-pail in Kerp's lodging; I have seen Wagner open it at Kerp's lodging—there was also a rolling-pin, which was used as a place of concealment, at Wagner's house; this is it (produced),—it unscrews—the cheques were wound round it—it was kept in actual use at Wagner's house (the witness here unscrewed both the articles)—last summer some wire blinds were put up at the house, 10, York-buildings, Adelphi, and upon them was "Bateman & Co., Law, Parliamentary, and General Stationers;" and at the bottom, the word, "Agents, etc."—a little law-stationery business was carried on there, and also as money agents, discounting bills—I was there constantly since October last, and also Bateman and Wagner—I only went there in October, 1858; I continued to be in attendance there until I was taken into custody on the 1st February last.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON Q. How often have you been convicted?

A. Not once—I have confessed my guilt—I pleaded guilty at the last Sessions—I was never tried before—I have only been engaged in forgeries since I have known Wagner, in 1857—I never did such a thing in my life before that—since 1842 I have been acting as a discount agent—I have not been sentenced for the forgery—I expect that my evidence here to-day may possibly have some effect upon my sentence—I have been engaged as a discount agent for several noblemen and gentlemen—I have discounted bills to the extent of 300,000l. and above—I know Dr. Jones, of Regent's-park; that is one of the cheques connected with Wagner; that is not the Mr. Jones that has been mentioned as knowing Bramwell—I did not obtain a cheque from Dr. Jones—I wrote to him—there was a proposition made in York-buildings for an advance of money to a person named Croker, and Dr. Jones was proposed as a surety—I wrote to him to know if he was willing to become surety, and he wrote back an answer that he was willing, and referred Bateman and Co. to his bankers in Argyll-place—that was for the purpose of carrying out the loan, which was afterwards done—it was not for the purpose of getting his signature in order that I might forge it; not originally, certainly not—that was not in view until the letter arrived—directly it arrived it was opened by Wagner, before Bateman and I arrived there in the morning; and then Wagner said, as Dr. Jones had referred to the Union Bank, in Argyll-place, it would do very nicely some day or other—I forget when this was; it was since October; very shortly before the cheque was made—I first knew Wagner in May or June, 1857—I took apartments in Beaumont street, High-street, on one occasion, at the suggestion of Wagner—I forget whether it was in 1857 or 1858—I never lived there, nor in Manchester-street, Manchester-square—I know a jeweller named Hawley, through Wagner; it must be about twelvemonths back, I think—I don't recollect that I have ever been in any Frederick-street, but there are so many about London; I will not swear I have not—I have gone by the name of Chambers for the last two years—I have not gone by any other name—I have taken lodgings in another name for the purpose of carrying out some of these transactions with Wagner—I went by the name of Whitehead when I lived in Kennington-oval in the early part of 1857; that was not before I knew Wagner—I believe I did not go by any other name before I knew Wagner—I don't think I was ever in any other name; if I was, it was not for any felonious purpose—I do not recollect ever having gone by any other name before I knew Wagner—I will not swear I have not—my object in going by the name of Whitehead, early in '57, was to avoid judgment debts against me; that was all—I lived in Kennington-oval, close by Vauxhall-bridge, in the name of Whitehead; that must have been in 1858, I think—I have only known Kerp since I have known Wagner—I swear that, I never knew any of his connexions until I knew him—I know a Mrs. Bethell; I do not know a Mr. Bethell—I have known Mrs. Bethell by name for twenty-five years—I have never forged, or attempted to forge, upon her—I swear that—Wagner suggested that I should do so—I know Mr. Blackman, the Member of Parliament—discounted some bills for him—I only knew him during the time I had bill transactions with him; that was long before I knew Wagner—I never appropriated the proceeds of any bills of Mr. Blackman's to my own use—I know a person of the name of Morton; I knew him years before I knew Wagner—I never stole any watches from him or from anybody else—I have never been engaged in stealing watches—I know a person named Van Gelder; he is one of Wagner's acquaintances—I hardly know what countryman he is—during my examination

I had Mr. Humphreys, the attorney, to appear for me—Counsel was was not instructed to defend me—I offered to plead guilty myself—I was taken up on the charge of committing Mr. Chambers' and Mr. Jones' forgeries.

Q. Was there any proposition made to you before you pleaded guilty? A. I don't exactly understand your question—in relation to what do you mean?—from a conversation I had at the House of Detention with Miss Fairbairn, who lived at Wagner's house, I felt perfectly confident that Wagner meant to turn evidence, if he could; consequently I made up my mind to turn evidence against him—Miss Fairbairn came to the House of Detention to see me three or four times in February and March of this year, since I have been in custody—I had not heard before February that Wagner intended to turn evidence—I had no occasion to hear it—how could I possibly hear it?—Wagner has always been suspected by the whole gang—I pleaded guilty to passing four forged Bank of England notes, which I received from Wagner—I swear I was never convicted before that—I do not at all know where Jones is now; he was constantly at York-buildings until I was taken into custody—in the course of conversation I have heard Jones say, that if any difficulty arose he should not be surprised at Wagner turning evidence; that he feared Wagner would turn round against us—I can hardly say when he first mentioned that to me; since October last, I have only known Jones since October—nobody else besides Jones communicated their suspicions of Wagner to me—I have had general conversations with all Wagner's acquaintances—they all began to suspect him.

Cross-examined by MR. ATKINSON. Q. Are you moved to give this evidence to-day by a desire to repair the past? A. Well, I am very glad there is an end of it—as far as lies in my power, I am willing to give every information I can; that is the real motive on my part; nobody has been conversing about my evidence to-day—I have had two or three words with Mr. Mullens this morning—he simply asked a question with reference to Feetum—he has seen me before this morning—he has had no conversation with me with reference to the evidence to day—I have seen him two or three times in prison; I think twice in Newgate; and his clerk once or twice, not with him, on separate occasions—I first wrote to Mr. Mullens to call upon me, and he came, alone—no other person was with us when we talked this matter over—I told him that from information I had received, I felt convinced that Wagner would turn evidence against me, and I was willing to give him all the information in my power—that was before I was tried—he has seen me since I was tried—I have seen him once or twice this morning, and once before; and I have seen his clerk, I think, twice—I gave Mr. Mullens the particulars of every transaction, as far as I could recollect, that I have had connected with Wagner, since I have been in Newgate—the feeling on my mind was partly to repair the injury that has been done, and partly to protect myself, knowing that Wagner would turn evidence against me—I pleaded guilty to the whole of the charges against me—it was Wagner's wish that I should not plead guilty—Miss Fairbairn told me, at the House of Detention, that Wagner wished me to plead not guilty—I have not had any conversation with Mr. Mullens or his clerk as to what I should say to-day—I have the feeling on my mind that my sentence may not be so severe in consequence of my evidence; I hope it may be so.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. You never saw Bramwell at all? A. No; Jones said he knew a young man named Bramwell living in a

house that was to be let—it was arranged that Wagner and Bateman should be at the Nelson Column to see Bramwell go with Jones—they did go—I stopped in York-buildings—they came back and told me they had seen Jones go with a man who, I presume, was Bramwell—Jones came back and said that the cheque had not been paid, but that a man had gone from Drummond's with Bramwell up to his house.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. You have been asked about a Dr. Jones, and a correspondence with him in which his signature was procured—was a forged cheque prepared after that, when it was ascertained that he referred to the Union Bank? A. Yes; this is the cheque (produced)—the money was obtained upon that cheque—the cheque was taken out of Bateman's book—it is for 250l.—Wagner gave me the whole of the money, and I went into the city and changed the whole of it for French money—I gave the whole of it to Wagner, and he gave me 40l.—Miss Fairbairn told me that Wagner had written to Mr. Mullens; that was partly my reason for suspecting him—I never saw Mr. Mullens or his clerk except in the presence of the governor of the gaol.

JAMES DRUMMOND SANDERSON . I am cashier at Messrs. Drummond's bank, Charing-cross—Mr. Edmund Kneller Smart of Princes-street, Soho, keeps an account at our bank. On 21st January last this cheque for 270l. was presented at our house for payment by the prisoner Bramwell—upon looking at it I was not satisfied and communicated with somebody in the establishment, and refused payment—I told Bramwell it was a forgery—he produced an envelope, in which he said he had received the cheque, sent by some person who had called about a house that he had to let—I cannot be certain that this is the envelope, I know it was addressed to Bramwell—I went over to Scotland-yard, and Bramwell was taken away by Sergeant Smith.

EDMUND KNELLER SMART . I carry on the business of a bullion-dealer, and money-changer in Princes-street, Leicester-square—I keep an account with Messrs. Drummonds—this cheque was not signed by me or by my authority—about 13th September last a person produced to me a 1000 franc note of the Bank of France for the purpose of change; I purchased it; the price was 39l. 7s. 6d.—I was about to pay the person in cash, and he requested that I would give him a cheque for 40l. and he gave the silver to make up the difference—I gave him a cheque for 40l. upon Drummonds—this (produced) is the cheque I gave.

GEORGE WILTON CHAMBERS . I reside at Cluff-house, Rotherham, York-shire—I keep an account with Messrs. Drummond—this cheque (produced) was not written by me or by my authority—this signature is a pretty good imitation of mine, but not the writing of the body.

DR. WILLIAM JONES . I am a physician, and reside in Albany-street, Regent's-park—I keep an account at the Argyll-street branch of the Union Bank—the signature to this cheque is not mine, nor written by my authority—I am acquainted with a gentleman named Croker—the cheque is dated 21st January, 1859—before that I was not concerned in respect of any loan about to be made to Mr. Croker; it was since then—I believe I have had a communication with Mr. Croker—I had not written a letter on the subject of becoming security—I believe a Mr. Pullen wrote; I did not write at all—I had a communication with my son, through Mr. Pullen, but not in writing—I had not written any letter—I had agreed to become security for Mr. Croker for a loan—I did not receive any letter on the subject of that loan from Bateman and Co.—I never heard of such a name as Bateman and Co.—I gave a reference with respect to that loan to my bankers in

Argyll-place, but it was verbally—my son does not write letters for me—this is very like my signature.

GEORGE LEGG . I am a cashier at the Union Bank, in Princes-street—Mr. James Aitkin, of Carshalton-park, keeps an account there—on 13th September this cheque was presented at our bank and paid by me—this 300l. note is part of what I paid it in—I have the number and date entered in my book and it corresponds.

JAMES AITKIN . I reside at Carshalton-park—I keep an account at the Union Bank—the signature to this cheque is not mine—I remember, just before this, having occasion to write about some dogs to a man named Barrett, in some street near Brompton, but I forget the name of the place.

EDWARD WOOD MORLEY . I am a clerk in the Issue Department of the Bank of England—this 300l. note was brought to me for change on 13th September, 1858—I gave 100l. in gold for it and an order for 200l. in notes—I produce the ticket, which I drew—the notes are paid in another department.

HENRY HOLMAN SMITH . I am a clerk in the Bank of England—I gave out the notes upon this order, they were ten 20l. notes, all dated 7th August, 1858, and numbered 8138 to 8147 inclusive.

ABRAHAM KULB . I am employed at Messrs. Spielman's, the money-changers—I do not remember any person coming there in September, 1858, and buying French money—I see my mark upon these ten 20l. notes—I don't know where I received them—I cannot give a date to the transaction in any way—the 13th of September is on the back of one of the notes, and the name of Angel—I have not written anything upon it which enables me to give a date—I do not remember the circumstance of any 20l. notes being brought—I know that these notes did come, because here is my writing; but I do not at all remember the transaction of taking the notes and giving foreign money in exchange—all I can say is, that these notes did come into my hand—I do not know whether they came into my hands altogether or at different times, it seems that I must have written them at the same time—I think so, but I cannot swear it—I think from the writing I must have done them at the same time.

Cross-examined by MR. ATKINSON. Q. But beyond the fact of seeing your name there you have no knowledge on the subject? A. No; not at all.

FREDERICK THOMAS BURTON . I am a cashier at the Argyll-place branch of the Union Bank of London—Dr. Jones of Albany-street keeps an account with us. On Saturday, January 22nd, a cheque for 250l. was presented for payment—I paid it—a person of the name of Horton Bateman kept a small account at our bank—I do not know the prisoner Bateman by sight—I know the writing of the person that kept the account—I should say these two letters (the two written to Bramwell) are in the handwriting of the Horton Bateman that kept an account with us; I have compared them with his signature—I have constantly had to act upon the signature of Horton Bateman—he ceased to keep any account I should say about 8 weeks or two months ago; I cannot speak to the date—he then had away his pass book, and all his paid cheques, and his balance, and closed his account.

W.W. CHANDLER (re-examined). The Bateman that I have spoken of is the one now in custody (Bateman was called forward)—that is the man.

HENRY SMITH . I am a sergeant of the Metropolitan Police—on 21st January last I was sent for to Messrs. Drummonds' banking house—I found Bramwell there—the bank-clerk told me in his presence that he had presented a cheque which was a forgery—Bramwell made no reply—these

letters were shewn to me—the clerk gave me one and Bramwell gave me the other; he said he had received it by poet from a person of the name of Wilson, who had called the previous day about the house—he then left the bank, he went of his own accord—I did not read the letters then—I followed him to No. 1, Queen-street, Soho; it was an empty house, to let—I remained there with another officer in expectation of Mr. Wilson coming; I remained there all day, till about 9 o'clock at night; I saw no Mr. Wilson—Bramwell remained there—during my stay there I smoked a pipe—whilst I was smoking some persons came to the house—the first was a female, of the name of Fairbairn—she lived in York-buildings, No. 9 or 10, Wagner's house—he came in first alone—Bateman came in afterwards—he spoke to Bramwell and went upstairs to look over the house—Miss Fairbairn went up too—she was there at the same time as Bateman—I am not aware that Bateman spoke to her, I did not hear him—they did not go upstairs at the same time—Bateman asked me to give him a light, as his cigar was out—he had a cigar in his hand, and he lighted his cigar at my pipe—they remained there about five or six minutes—they did not go away together; the female went first.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. Did you hear what Bateman said to Bramwell? A. No; I was in the shop—Bramwell at once told me where he lived—the letters showed—he was not taken into custody—he remained in the house with me all the day—I kept a sharp watch upon him, when I say a sharp watch, if he wanted to go from the shop to the parlor he did, and he had his dinner—if any person came in and had any communication with him, I should have liked to know what it was about; I should have thought it my duty to overhear—I do not mean to say that when Bateman came he had a private conversation apart from me—I took it that he came in to look at the house—he asked to look at the house—I did not interfere with that—what Bramwell said to Bateman upstairs I know nothing about—Bramwell went upstairs with him; I am quite sure of that—I did not accompany them—they could not come out without passing me—Bramwell told me that the house belonged to his uncle—I did not inquire of the uncle or the persons to whom the house belonged as to whether the 20l. deposit was required—I am not aware that anybody has made that enquiry—he gave me his uncle's address—I don't know that his father has some houses in the immediate neighbourhood—I made inquiry about the uncle, and I was under the impression that they were all respectable people, from what I heard—I was given to understand that his father was the owner of houses in the neighbourhood, but I did not go to his father or his uncle—I have been informed that his father has been for many years under restraint; I do not know it of my own knowledge.

Cross-examined by MR. BODKIN. Q. Did you notice anybody outside the house besides those that came in? A. No; I could not see outside, the shutters of the shop were up.

HENRY WERB (re-examined). Since the month of November last I and another officer have been engaged in watching Wagner, Bateman, and Chandler—we ascertained that Chandler lived at Battersea, and Bateman also, at Woodbine Cottage, not in the same house, but about a thousand yards from each other—I have seen Chandler go to Bateman's house of a morning and both come to town together by the boat—they went to No. 10, York-buildings, Adelphi—they did not come back together—on one occasion Bateman got upon one pier and Chandler on the other, at Chelsea, and Bateman arrived at York-buildings before Chandler—they came by

different boats—they usually came together—Wagner used to be at 10, York-buildings—I have seen him there a great many times—he was living there—there were blinds in the window with "Bateman, Law Stationer," upon them, and "Bateman," on a brass plate on the door—I have never seen Wagner, Bateman, and Chandler together—I have seen Wagner and Bateman together on two or three occasions—I have not seen Wagner and Chandler together—I have seen Chandler go to the house constantly with Bateman—I took Chandler into custody on 1st February, in Church-road, Battersea—he had left his own house and was going towards Bateman's—we took him in the street, and we went back to his house and searched it in his presence—we then went to Bateman's house and saw him—I did not take him into custody at that time—I spoke to him respecting Chandler, and he told me he was his clerk—I then went off to 10, York-buildings—Wagner was not there; he never re-appeared there afterwards—we looked for him constantly—we got there about 11 o'clock in the morning—I found Miss Fairbairn there—she told me that he had left town over night—we watched continually but could never see him go there afterwards—while we were in the house there the prisoner Humphreys came there and said he wanted to see Mr. Wagner upon some money transaction—I took Wagner into custody on 26th March, at 9, Sussex-street, Tottenham Court-road—Chandler was in custody from the 1st February—after the 26th I went to York-buildings and brought away the rolling-pin that has been produced—afterwards went to Mrs. Skelton's house and took the slop-pail that has been produced—I was originally brought up to the tin trade—I never saw an article like this slop-pail in the trade—we have looked after Kerp, but have not found him; he had left about six weeks—at that time it was known that Chandler was in custody.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Did you ever happen to see Kerp? A. Yes; when he was in custody at the Mansion-house, about twelve months ago—that had nothing to do with this case—I know him—I have seen him at the place in York-buildings—I was not on the look-out for him after I had taken Chandler—we have never had any special instructions to apprehend him—I am not certain whether I have seen him since I took Chandler—I fancy I saw him in the New-road one day when I was on an omnibus—I never went and had a glass of ale with him—I never saw Jones that I know of—I have seen a great many persons go to York-buildings; I knew them—I remember the witness Watkins being taken to the police-station when Wagner was in custody—I believe he was shewn to him in the same way that he was to Miss Harris; but Joy can give you more information about that than I can.

MARGARET SKELTON . I live at 56, Upper John-street, Tottenham Court-road—I know a man named Kerp—he has lodged in my house for some time—he left I should say between two and three months back; I have not got the date—he lodged with me at three different times for the last seven or eight years—I know Wagner and Bateman, and also Chandler, who went by the name of Chambers—they used to come to see Kerp—Kerp was usually employed in writing—when the men came to see him they did not often remain very long; perhaps it might be an hour or two, once or twice, taking coffee with him—sometimes I did not know how long they staid, because I had nothing to do in letting them out—I was in the next room to them, and sometimes I heard them talking—I have found the door of Kerp's room locked when they were there, it was always locked—when he was by himself he always locked his door—after Kerp left, Wagner came

and lodged with me for a week or ten days—I remember the officers coming; they did not search my place—I gave them a slop-pail—that slop-pail came to my house with Mr. Kerp's things from the Crown-tavern, where lie lived—he brought it with him and left it behind him—during the week or ten days that Wagner occupied the lodging a female named Fairbairn came there to see him—Wagner told me she was his housekeeper.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON Q. Don't you recollect when Kerp left? A. It is more than two months ago—I should think it was somewhere in the beginning of March, but I cannot tell, for he never paid of late; not since he has been at my house this last time—he has given me a trifle at a time—I can't say what time in March it was he left, or whether it was in March—I ordered him out of the house—he is not a tall man—he is very old, upwards of 80 I think—he is not a large man—he told me he was going to some street near St. Giles' Church, Denmark-street, I think—he generally went out about 1 or 2 o'clock in the day and remained out till 12, 1, or 2 o'clock at night—he breakfasted at home—I don't recollect whether he went out early on 23d March—he was at my house then—no; I really don't recollect whether he was or not—I did not put down the date he went away—I know the University hotel by passing it; it is not very far from my house—I never heard Kerp speak of it—I really do not recollect whether he was at my place or not at the latter end of March:—he is not a large man, he is a very thin spare man—he might have been tall, he is not now—he stoops now—he is about half the size he was when I first knew him, that is seven or eight years ago—I think he must have been rather tall in his youth; not six feet, or near it—I never heard him talk of the University hotel.

MR. BODKIN. Q. From his appearance how old should you consider him? A. I should think about 80—I am 60—I can't tell you what colour his hair is; he hardly has any on his head.

MR. JUSTICE CROWDER. stated that the decision of the Court yesterday as to the die, was not to be regarded as applicable now, taken in connexion with the evidence since offered, with reference to the cheque brought in blank in the first instance by Humphreys and which afterwards had a stamp affixed to it. MR. ATKINSON contended that before the evidence could be received it must be clearly shewn that the particular die found, caused the stamp in question. MR. JUSTICE CROWDER would receive the evidence, if the prosecution thought fit to tender it; and the Court would then decide whether it was applicable. MR. BODKIN proposed first to tender the proof.

WILLIAM WHITEHEAD CHANDLER (re-examined). A conversation took place between Humphreys, Bateman, Wagner, myself, and Jones as to making a stamp to put upon this cheque, and Humphreys undertook to make one—it was agreed that he was to do it, to make an impression, or rather a die—there was a further conversation about it, about a week after-wards, with Bateman, Wagner, myself, and Jones, in York-buildings—Humphreys was not present—he had not done it, and Wagner said he would not wait any longer for Humphreys—Bateman said he could make one in plaster of Paris, and he tried to make one; not at that meeting; soon after—we tried it next day I believe—I saw the die made—we all had a hand in making it, Wagner, Bateman, myself and Jones, not Humphreys—it was made first in plaster—an impression was taken in my presence—Humphreys came down on the evening of that same day; that was before it had been put on, but after it had been made—Humphreys was shewn the die, and he pronounced it to be very good—it was then applied to the cheque, on the evening before it was sent to the bankers—that was after Humphreys

was gone—the die was left in Wagner's house—I do not know who had it—Wagner had it; it was left there at the time I was taken into custody—it was calculated to make more than one impression; it would make hundreds or more—the one that was used was made of metal—it was first made in plaster, that did not answer the purpose, and it was afterwards made in metal—it took two or three days to accomplish it—it was first tried in plaster, and then the paper applied, but it did not answer the purpose, and it was afterwards made in metal—it was the one in metal that was shewn to Humphreys, and which he said he thought was very good—it was similar to this (looking at the one found at Humphreys'), but this is not the one—I have not seen other dies besides the one I have been speaking of—I never saw a die until I saw the one that was making for this purpose—I know this is not the one because the other had a sharp edge to it; it was filed down more; in other respects it is similar—I had no conversation with Humphreys at any other time about the die that he undertook to make—he said he had not time to make it.

Cross-examined by MR. ATKINSON. Q. When you speak of similarity, I suppose you allude to the stamp in the centre? A. The stamp in the centre is precisely like the one; but that is not the impression that was used.

EDWIN HILL (re-examined). I have examined the stamp on this cheque—I believe it is not a genuine stamp—I have a thorough belief that it is not a genuine stamp.

Cross-examined by MR. ATKINSON. Q. Is there some gentleman connected with the department who makes the dies? A. We have an engraver—there would be no difficulty in having him here—I have the custody of the dies—my reason for saying this is not genuine is, that it is so exceedingly faint and indefinite, that I have great difficulty in comparing it—I have brought impressions of Government stamps to compare with it—I have examined it with a magnifier, and compared it with other stamps; but it is so exceedingly faint and indefinite—I believe we never sent a stamp out of the office in so imperfect a state as that—I have the strongest possible belief on the subject—I superintend the making of the impressions—we make something like 400,000 per day—I do not stand by and see every one made, but I have a general superintendence—I am prepared to express my strongest belief that it never could have been issued in that state, because we take such precautions, and have them so rigorously examined, that I think the thing is impossible, this is so widely different from anything we ever sent out—some are struck by band with a fly press, and some by a steam-engine.

COURT. Q. Can you detect any other inaccuracy in the impression. A. My examination gives rather negative results; I do not find things there that ought to be there, if genuine; but, being so faint, it confuses me—I have never observed the effect of damp upon these stamps.

HENRY WEBB (re-examined) I went to Humphrey's house, and went up-stairs to a back room, where, amongst other things, I found this die—Humphreys seized it, and we seized Humphreys, and took it from his hand—it was on the table, Humphreys sprang from us and seized it, and I and Funnell then put him against the wall and took it from his left hand—he said, "It is no use now; I will be quiet"—I told him it was no use to resist—I have also some impressions which I found in a drawer of a chest of drawers in Humphreys' bedroom—they are impressions from this die.

MR. ATKINSON still submitted that the evidence was inadmissible, the stamp upon the cheque being altogether different from the die.

MR. JUSTICE CROWDER was of opinion that in the present stage of the case, after the additional evidence that had been given, and the manner in which Humphreys was connected with the attempt to manufacture a stamp for the purpose of affixing it to the cheque that was in evidence to show the guilty knowledge of the parties, it was clearly receivable; although it was not the die that actually made the impression, it was like it in almost every respect, and was intended to have been affixed; it was, therefore, so connected with the instrument that it could not be excluded upon the grounds upon which it was refused in an earlier part of the case—there was also a further ground upon which its admissibility might be urged, viz. the corroboration it afforded to the statement of the accomplice. MR. BARON CHANNELL was also of opinion that the evidence was properly receivable.

GUILTY on the Second Count.

WAGNER was further charged with having been before convicted.

JOHN SPITTLE (City policeman). I produce a certificate—(Read: "Central Criminal Court, February, 1852; William Wagner, convicted of forgery. Transported for Ten Years.")—I was present at that trial—Wagner is the person who was then convicted.

FOSTER— Ten Years' Penal Servitude.

HUMPHREYS— Twenty Years' Penal Servitude.

For sentence upon Bramwell and Wagner, see Old Court, Saturday.

NEW COURT—Thursday, May 12th, 1859.


Before Mr. Recorder and the Sixth Jury.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-498
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

498. MOSES JEFFRIES (36), and JOHN SMITH (25) , Stealing 2 coppers and 68 pounds of lead, value 3l. 5s., of Henry Dodd, and fixed to a building.


JAMES HILL . I live at Hayes—I was employed by Mr. Henry Dodd to look after an empty house—I was there on the 29th April, and I saw the coppers safe on the premises—I did not sleep there—I went the next morning at 5 o'clock—I observed the boards were taken down from the window, and the two coppers were gone—I traced the smut of the coppers to the place where I found the two prisoners and the two coppers—I believe, by his appearance, that Smith was one of the persons—I could not swear to his features—I saw him again on the Monday following—I have a general remembrance of him by his figure.

JOSEPH EVERETT . I am foreman to Mr. Dodd—he has a brick-field about a quarter of a mile from the empty house—I saw the two prisoners in the brick-field between 6 and 7 o'clock in the evening—they had no business there.

Smith. I had business—the barges and boats come close there—I went to see if I could get a job. Witness. He had no business with them—a man was unloading a load of ashes, and the boatman seeing these two men there, asked them to come and assist him in the morning.

CHARLES DORRINGTON . I am boatman to Mr. Dodd—on the 28th April, I was in the brick-field about six o'clock—the prisoners assisted me to unload some ashes—I gave them some bread and cheese—they stayed in the boat about a quarter of an hour—I saw Smith the next morning between 4 and 5 o'clock—he asked me to lend him this chopper (produced), and I lent it him.

JAMES HILL (re-examined). I took Jeffries and the coppers, and Jeffries

had this chopper in his hand when I took him—it has been used in chopping the lead, and is damaged—one man could not have taken both the coppers and the lead.

ISRAEL WATTS (Policeman, N 184). I took Smith in custody on the Sunday morning, about 12 o'clock, on the City-road bridge—he denied that he knew anything of it.

CHARLES DORRINGTON (re-examined). I lent the chopper to Smith—I gave him the key to go and take it out of the boat—he brought me the key back again in a few minutes—I know the chopper was there when I gave him the key—I did not miss it till after I heard of this.


SMITH was further charged with having been before convicted.

PETER DEVITT (Police-sergeant, N 32). I produce a certificate—(Read: "Hereford, March, 1854; John Smith convicted of breaking and entering a church, and stealing table-covers and other articles. Five Years' Penal Servitude")—the prisoner is the man, I had him in custody—his time would be up in March last.

SMITH—GUILTY.— Confined Eighteen Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-499
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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499. WILLIAM SARJEANT (19) , Stealing one watch, value 5l., of Helen Julia Bray, from her person.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

HELEN JULIA BRAY . I live in Park-villas—on 14th April, I was passing through Holborn, about 12 o'clock in the day—I had a watch, which was fastened round my nock with a silk guard—the prisoner came up to me—he had a cape or a coat on his arm—he asked me the way to Temple-bar—I gave him the information—he then asked me how far it was, and what was the name of the place he was then in—he pressed against my side, and took my watch—he left immediately—I looked down, and the guard had been cut, and I missed my watch—I am quite sure the prisoner is the man

Cross-examined by MR. LEWIS. Q. How long before had you seen the watch safe? A. About three-quarters of an hour—it was fastened by a brown silk guard—I left home about a quarter after 11 o'clock—I had a shawl on—I had noticed the guard; it was not cut—I had it safe a minute or two before the prisoner spoke to me—I felt a decided pressure from the prisoner—I did not make any attempt to stop him—this took place between Brook-street and Furnivals'-inn—there were numbers of persons passing to and fro—I mentioned it to a policeman immediately—I had gone straight from Park-villas to Holborn—I had not spoken to any one on the road, nor been in any shop—the prisoner spoke to me, and I spoke to him in reply—I had my purse in my hand when he spoke to me.

COURT. Q. How soon afterwards did you see the prisoner? A. In two days afterwards—he was then with the Inspector.

MICHAEL LITCHFORD . I am a warehouseman, on Holborn-hill—on 14th April I was in Holborn—I saw the prisoner and two others following the prosecutrix and two other ladies down the street—they were trying to stop the ladies, and forming obstructions on the footpath—the prisoner tried to get alongside of the ladies—I followed them, and saw a policeman; I called his attention to them—I then saw the prisoner leave in a very hurried manner, at the corner of Brook-street—he left as if he had stolen something—I lost sight of him then, and on the Monday following I saw him

in the Strand, with four or five others—they were attempting to pick pockets—I gave him into custody.

Cross-examined. Q. How many ladies did you follow? A. None; I was by the side of the prisoner, but I did not try to obstruct any one.

BENJAMIN LAWSON (Policeman, F 73). I was on duty at Bow-street on the Monday—the prisoner was brought there, and I took him—he gave an address—I made inquiries, and it was false.


The prisoner was further charged with having been before convicted.

ALFRED WHITE (Policeman, A 428). I produce a certificate—(Read: "Central Criminal Court, December, 1855; Alfred Lewis pleaded guilty to larceny from the person. Confined Six Months")—the prisoner is the person—I was present at the time.

GUILTY.** Four years' penal servitude.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-500
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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500. HENRY JENKINS (21) , Stealing 1 watch, value 2l., of Henry Gorier, from his person.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN EAGLETON (City Policeman, 257). On the morning of 25th April, about half-past 2 o'clock, I was on duty in Long-lane—I saw the prosecutor standing in a doorway there—I saw the prisoner go up to him—he stopped about half a minute, and then left him, and turned into Cloth-fair—I crossed the road, and saw the prosecutor's watch-guard hanging down—I left him and followed the prisoner to Middle-street, Cloth-fair—I asked him what he had got—he said he had nothing but what belonged to him—I grasped his hand, and found in it this watch—he rushed at me and attempted to get away—we struggled, and both fell—the watch fell in the road—I picked it up, and afterwards two more officers came up—I secured the prisoner—I found on him some cards—I went back to the prosecutor, and found him asleep in the doorway—I found this ring of the watch in the prisoner's hand.

Cross-examined by MR. MC-DONALD. Q. Were there any gas lights there? A. There was one just opposite where the prosecutor was standing—there was no scuffling going on before I came to the prisoner—I did not hear any noise made by any one.

HENRY GOVIER . I am an insurance broker—I was in Long-lane on that morning—this is my watch; this is the ring belonging to it.

The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was read as follows:—"I will plead guilty to stealing the watch; I deny having been locked up before in my life."

Witnesses for the Defence.

LEWIS WORMS . I am a general dealer, and live in Van-street, Liquor-pond-street—I have known the prisoner six or seven years—he worked for me about four years—he left working for me on 12th July, 1857—he began to work for me five or six years ago—he continued uninterruptedly in my service more than four years—he bore a very good character with me—I used to buy things, and he went out with a pony and cart and sold them.

THOMAS BRENNAN . I am a general dealer, and live at No. 1, Van-street I have known the prisoner several years—I have always known him a very honest man—he has never worked for me, but for people in the same street—he has worked for Mr. Worms and about for different persons with fruit in the summer time.

COURT. Q. Have you known anything of him since 1857? A. Yes;

I believe he was working for Mr. Worms; I believe he worked all the summer for him; I don't think he did in the winter—he was out with him, but I don't think he was out with things for him—I think in the summer of 1855 and 1856 he was working for some person over the water—I can't tell for how many different persona he worked for; he worked for several—he has been out with Mr. Goodhall; I have seen him about with him—I don't know that he was in regular work for any one.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

The prisoner was further charged with having been before convicted.

JAMES THORNDIKE (City policeman, 286). I produce a certificate of the prisoner's former conviction—(Read: "Central Criminal Court, April, 1857;— John Gifford, convicted of stealing a watch. Confined Nine Months")—I believe the prisoner is the man; I have not the least doubt of it—I was present, and I was the officer who had him in custody—I have seen him two or three times since—I had not seen him before—I know the two witnesses, Brennan and Worms, by sight—I have never seen the prisoner in their company.

Prisoner. I and Worms were locked up for an assault on Thomas Brennan.

COURT to THOMAS BRENNAN. Q. Did the prisoner assault you? A. Yes, on 12th July, 1857, and a fortnight afterwards I removed out of the street to Red-lion-yard—I have ray rent-book in my pocket to prove that I removed—I never knew the prisoner by the name of Gifford; he always used to go by the name of Whitehead—I never heard him called by the name of Jenkins—he hada month's imprisonment for assaulting me.

HARDING. I am a warder of Holloway Prison—the prisoner was there about three years ago in the name of Gifford—the chief warder would know him better than I do.

NOT GUILTY of the previous Conviction.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-501
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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501. HENRY JONES (19) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of William Pollock, and stealing therein 196 yards of cloth, value 80l., 170 pieces of cloth, value 65l., and 3 coats, value 5l., of William Pollock.

NATHANAEL LEVERIDGE (Policeman, N 84). On the night of 8th April I was on duty in Britannia-street; about 8 o'clock I met the prisoner carrying a bundle—I said, "What have you got there?"—he refused to tell me—I took hold of him by the collar—there were three other persons with him; they came up and struck me, and the prisoner struck me violently in the mouth and made me bleed very much—the inspector came to my help; I took the prisoner to the station, and found the bundle contained these nine yards of cloth.

WILLIAM POLLOCK . I am a tailor, and live in Kingsland-road—this piece of cloth is mine—on the morning of the 6th April I locked up my place, and retired to bed about 12 o'clock; next morning I was roused by the policeman knocking on the stairs—I descended with him, and found my shop had been robbed of a very large quantity of cloth; a pane of glass been taken out of the back kitchen window, which was wide open—the kitchen door was broken which led to the shop—there were a great many marks, I should say a hundred, of four different persons—this cloth is part of the property I lost—the value of all I lost was 150l.—this jemmy was left behind, and it corresponds with the marks on the door and window.

CHARLES WEBSTER (Police-inspector, N). I found the policeman struggling

with the prisoner—I took the prisoner in custody—he was very violent; one of his shoes was lost in the struggle—I took his other shoe off; this is it; compared it with marks in the prosecutor's garden; it corresponded exactly—he appeared to have been drinking.

MARY ANN GATES . I live at 78, Lant street, about twelve doors from the back entrance to the prosecutor's place—on the evening of 6th April I saw two men go in the back way to the prosecutor's house at half-past 11 o'clock—I could not recognise them—a little further on I saw the prisoner, he appeared to be intoxicated, and was reeling; he was going towards where the other two men were.

COURT to NATHANAEL LEVERIDGE. Q. When you first saw him was there any appearance of intoxication? A. No; but when I took hold of him he appeared to be drunk.


He was further charged with having been before convicted.

JOSEPH DOBLE (Policeman, H 195). I produce a certificate of the prisoner's conviction (Read: "Central Criminal Court; Henry Jones convicted, September, 1858, of stealing a purse. Confined Six Months"—I was present—the prisoner is the person.

GUILTY.— Confined Eighteen Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-502
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > with recommendation
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

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502. JOHN BUCKLEY (15), and THOMAS WALL (36) , stealing two pounds of copper, value 1s. 10d. of John Ambrose Coffey—Second Count charging Wall with receiving the same.

BUCKLEY PLRADED GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor.

Confined Three Months.

MR. ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN AMBROSE COFFEY . I am an engineer—Buckley was in my employ as errand-boy—on 3d May I missed a considerable quantity of copper; this produced is a part of it, but this is not the large quantity—I found this folded up near my counting-house—I afterwards went with a policeman to Wall's—he stated that he had made a bad job of it, and he hoped I would be as lenient as possible—his wife was given in charge, but as she was near her confinement I did not press the charge—I heard Wall asked if he had bought any copper that day, and he said he had not, and asked his mistress whether she had—the constable then asked him if he had any copper at all—he said he had a little, and he took out these four pieces which had been in my place two hours before; he said he gave 6d. for one portion of it, and his wife gave 3d. for another portion—when Buckley saw Wall, he said, "That is the man that bought the copper of me"—Wall first denied it, and then admitted it—the value of this would be 1s. 10d.; I weighed it in Wall's scale.

Cross-examined by MR. LEWIS Q. Is it worth 1s. 10d. as old copper? A. Yes; about 1s. 10d.—his wife gave 3d. for a portion in the morning, and he gave 6d. in the afternoon.

JAMES BRANNAN (Police-sergeant, G 21). I went with the prosecutor to Wall's shop, about half-past 6 o'clock, Buckley was waiting outside—I saw Wall—his wife said to him, "Have you bought any copper to-day?"—he said, "No"—I said, "Are you sure?"—he said, "Yes"—I then had Buckley in, and Wall said, "No," again; but he said, "I don't know whether my wife has or not"—he went behind the counter, I followed him, and he took down a tin canister, in which I found these four pieces of copper, which were identified by the prosecutor—Buckley said, "That is the man that bought two pieces of copper of me at dinner-time, and gave me 6d. for them"—Wall said, "I did; I bought it of him at dinner-time, and gave

him 6d. for them"—he then said to Mr. Coffey, "I hope you will be merciful to me for the Bake of my family"—he at first denied having seen Buckley.

COURT. Q. Did you look at his book? A. Yes; this is it—I asked him if he kept a day-book; he said, "Yes"—I said, "Let me look at it"—he said, "I have not made any entries lately"—I said, "How long is it since you made an entry?"—he said, "I cannot exactly say"—the last entry is on 25th March.

WALL— Guilty on Second Count—Recommended to mercy by, the Jury and Prosecutor.Confined Nine Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-503
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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503. JOSEPH TYAS (21) , Embezzling 1l. 6s. of Robert John Trender, his master.

WILLIAM RICHARD STEVENS . I am a stationer, in Throgmorton-street—I occasionally employ Robert John Trender—I was indebted to him 26s.—the prisoner came to me on 23d April for it; I paid him, and he gave me this receipt.

ROBERT JOHN TRENDER . The prisoner had been in my employ three years and a half—he was in the habit of collecting small accounts for me—I sent him to receive this 26s.—he said, Mr. Stevens would have some more goods next week, and he would settle for all together—he never paid me the 26s.

Prisoner. I was coming home and I lost the money out of my side-pocket—I did not like to go back without making it up. Witness. You left me on 30th April, and I could not find you—I paid you your wages, and you left me on the Saturday night after you received them—I did not tell you I should not have work for you, and not to come before Tuesday—I expected you on the Monday—I should not have found this out if you had come to your work as usual—I don't wish to hurt you—I never found you dishonest before.

GUILTY .— Confined Two Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-504
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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504. MICHAEL EDWARD PERKINS (54) , Stealing 10 quarters of oats, value 11l., 15s., of William Hopkinson and others, his masters.

MESSRS. BODKIN and ROBINSON conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM HOPKINSON , jun. I am a corn factor, and have two partners—I carry on business at the Corn-exchange, and at the granaries at Paul's-wharf, Upper Thames-street—the prisoner came into my service in September last, as town traveller, at a salary of two guineas a week and his expenses; he was to go about and collect orders—he attended to his duty, as far as I know, up to February last, when he suddenly absented himself, and I did not see him again till he was in custody—I made some inquiries about Henry Dawson, Alma Cottage, Dalston—I found a row of six houses—I inquired at every house.

Cross-examined by MR. LAWRENCE. Q. Was the place you were directed to Alma-cottage, Rosemary-road. A. Yes—I do not know that a letter was sent to Mr. Dawson; it very likely would be sent, but I do not know—I have not heard that it was sent—the prisoner had been with me from the middle of September till the middle of February—I believed him to be a person of good character—he was recommended to me by my partner, from his having known him several years ago.

GEORGE TOMLING . I am clerk to the prosecutors—on 24th December, I saw the prisoner in the Corn-market—he told me he had made a sale of ten

quarters of oats to Henry Dawson—I wrote down the address, "Henry Dawson, Alma Cottage, Rosemary-road, Dalston, 10 quarters, at 23s. 6d. a quarter"—the prisoner asked me for a delivery order for that, and I gave it him—this is the order—it would entitle him to receive ten quarters of oats at the granary at Paul's-wharf—(Read: "Deliver to Mr. Henry Damon 10 quarters of Riga, for Hopkinson and Co.")—on 21st January, the prisoner reported to me another sale of twenty quarters, to Henry Beavis, No. 1, Hunter-street, Brunswick-square—I gave him this delivery order for them (Read: "Mr. Carter, deliver 20 quarters of Swedes to Mr. Henry Beavis, for Hopkinson and Co.")—the price of them was 24s. 6d. a quarter—on 19th February, I addressed a letter to Mr. Henry Beavis, I, Hunter-street—it came back marked "No such person"—I went to the place—there was no appearance of any business there—neither of these have been paid.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. You did nothing but give the delivery orders to the prisoner? A. No—the orders were directed to Mr. Carter, the prosecutor's foreman—the prisoner desired me to give them—I do not remember that the prisoner has ever complained of errors in my account—I do not remember that I stated that I had received 14l. 8s. of Mr. Daniel—I cannot say whether I said so or not—I do not remember asking the prisoner to give me back the wrong receipt, telling him that it would ruin me if it came to the knowledge of my employers—it might have occurred—I will swear I do not remember any such thing occurring—mistakes will occur sometimes—I do not remember telling the prisoner he could have got the receipt if he had tried—I did not on that occasion say, "Never mind, I shall have it in my power to give you a turn some day"—I recollect I asked him if he knew where French was taught, and he told me, and I said I would do him a turn some day—I said it as a kindness.

JOHN LANE . I live in Newport-street, Commercial-road—I have the care of the prosecutor's grain at the wharf—on 28th December, I delivered the oats mentioned in this order to Scott, the carman—on 27th January, I delivered this other order of twenty quarters to Madden, who brought it—when I delivered the order of the ten quarters, in December, I saw the prisoner on the wharf that morning—I would not swear he was on the wharf at the time the oats were taken in the van—it was about half-past 8 o'clock when Scott was there.

Cross-examined by MR. LAWRENCE. Q. Are you quite clear that the prisoner was there on 28th December? A. Yes, I feel positive—I cannot say what time to half-an-hour—it was during the time that Scott was there—the oats were delivered about 8 or half-past 8, and while Scott was there the prisoner was there—Mr. Hopkinson has not found fault with me about my deliveries—I do not know that he has complained of any error at all.

RICHARD SCOTT . I am in the employ of a town carman in Green Dragon yard, Half-moon-street—I took this order to Paul's-wharf on 28th December—I received 10 quarters of oats—I took them to Mr. Somers, a cornchandler in Seething-lane—I shot them into his sacks.

Cross-examined by MR. LAWRENCE. Q. Did you receive any directions from the prisoner. A. No; I never saw the man till I was at Guildhall.

JAMES SOMERS . I live in Seething-lane, and deal in corn—on 28th December I received ten quarters of oats in Sculler's cart—I bought them of Baker, a man whom I have known some years, at 17s. 6d. a quarter—I believe Baker is to be found in Camomile-street—I gave the direction to the policeman—I have not seen Baker since—he was merely an agent—

he gave me this bill in the name of Green, his principal—he introduced Mr. Green—he was present and received the money—I had not employed Baker, he called upon me.

Cross-examined by MR. LAWRENCE. Q. Had you had a good many transactions with Baker in buying corn at a lower price? A. Not a great many—I cannot say whether Baker had a good many principals—I believed I was buying the corn of Mr. Green—I deal in corn in a tolerably large way—I know there is such a man as Baker; before this, I frequently saw him, and I have had considerable transactions with him since—I believe this word, "Settled," was written in my presence by the man who gave the name of Green, who was introduced to me by Baker—Green wrote the receipt—the invoice was brought to me ready written.

COURT. Q. What was the price in the market at that time? A. I cannot say the market was depressed—I sold them again at a shilling a quarter profit—they were Riga oats.

WILLIAM HOPKINSON (re-examined). I believe this invoice to be the prisoner's writing, except the receipt "Settled"—his signature is pretty consistent, but his ordinary writing is very variable, though there is a character about it which makes me verily believe it is his; the "g's" in particular, though they vary, are very much like his writing, and the letter "s," which I should anywhere have picked out as his writing.

HENRY MADDEN . I live in Cromer-yard, Gray's-inn-road. On 27th January, I received 20 quarters of oats on this order—I took them to Mr. Bullock's, in Cirencester-place, and Mrs. Bullock told me to take them to Mr. Samuels.

Cross-examined by MR. LAWRENCE? Q. What is Mr. Bullock? A. A van proprietor—I then took them to Mr. Samuels, who I believe is here—he is a watchmaker and a general dealer.

JAMES LAIDLER . I lived at No. 1, Hunter-street, Brunswick-square.—I quitted it at Lady-day—I occupied the house myself—no one of the name of Beavis lived there.

Cross-examined by MR. LAWRENCE. Q. Do you know anything of the other houses in the square? A. No; there are some mews there, but there is not a Hunter-mews.

ALFRED GREEN (City policeman). I took the prisoner on 29th March—I found him in Milton-street—I had been looking after him for some time—I read the warrant to him—he said "Very well, I will go with you"—I took him to the station—I found some duplicates on him but no money.


JOHN BRITTAN . I live in Lawrence-lane, and am a commercial agent. I have known the prisoner twelve or fourteen years, his character has been irreproachable as far as I am aware—I know his writing, I have seen him write many times—he was my clerk nearly three months—I cannot say whether this "J. Green" to this invoice is his writing—it slightly resembles it.

Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. Did you ever see this document before now? A. Never; I was not subpoenaed to come here, I came at the request of his lawyer—I should think if you had once seen the prisoner's writing you would never forget it—he always writes in one particular style—there is a character about it you could not mistake—I should think this (another paper) is his writing—I do not think this document is his writing, nor any part of it.

HENRY DAVIS . I live at No. 15, Parker-street, Westminster, and am a

parliamentary writer—I have known the prisoner about fifteen years, he always bore a first-rate character—I have seen his writing frequently, and seen him write a great many times—I should say this "J. Green" to this invoice is not his writing; decidedly not—I should never say it was his writing—it is not his style; his hand is more round than this.

Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. Have you known him pretty well up to this time? A. Yes; I do not know that he was in the service of Russell and Wright—he used to work with me up to about the end of last July or August—I never saw this document before now—he was in the habit of writing in one single style—I never saw him write in different styles—these letters are sharper than what I have seen him write—the upper part of this is more like his writing; but I believe it is not his—the signature I am positive is not.

JAMES SOMERS (re-examined). Q. When this receipt was written, what part was written? A. I did not notice the word "Green" when the invoice was handed to me—I saw the person write upon it, but I did not see him write the words "J. Green"—I did not notice it—I do not think "J. Green" was written by the person who wrote the word "settled."

The prisoner received a good character.

GUILTY .— Three Years' Penal Servitude.

The prosecutor stated that there were other cases against him to the amount of 250l.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-505
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation; Guilty > unknown; Not Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

505. JOSEPH BRANSGROVE (35), GEORGE JUETT (18), and JOHN JUSON (43) , Stealing 1 sack, value 2s., and 16 bushels of oats, value 2l. 6s. of the London General Omnibus Company, from a barge on a navigable canal.

MESSRS GIFFARD and LEWIS conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES THOMAS . I am a lighterman, and live in Euston-road Bransgrove and Juett were in my employ—I have a contract with the London General Omnibus Company—I was to take oats to Paddington, to the Company's premises, and then to come back and take orders to another place, wherever they had to go—the prisoner had no right to be at Stapleton-wharf—the oats and corn were to be delivered at the Company's-wharf, at Paddington.

Cross-examined by MR. LAWRENOE. Q. How long had Bransgrove been in your employ? A. Seven or eight years—I have found him to be honest up to the present time—I believe Juett is a relation of his—he worked with him—during the time that Bransgrove has been with me I have trusted him with hundreds and thousands of pounds worth of property—he was in the habit of making one or two journies a week.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Do you contract to supply the Company? A. No; only as a carrier—I receive the delivery orders from their agents, and take them to different ships and warehouses—on this occasion I had to go to the Commercial-docks—I have not the delivery order—when we apply for the oats we give the delivery order up, and I had to deliver the corn at the London General Omnibus Company's premises—I am bound over to appear here—I make no charge against the prisoners—I don't know that the proper quantity of corn was delivered to the Company's premises on that occasion—no complaint has been made to me of the nondelivery of any corn—I don't know the quantity of corn—there are parties here who can tell—it has been ascertained, and will be stated.

THOMAS POTTER (Policeman, A 348). From some information, I watched opposite Stapleton's-bridge on Friday, 29th April—I saw the barge navigated

by Bransgrove and Juett at 9 o'clock in the morning, in the Paddington-canal, and about half-past 10 I saw it had been removed lower down the basin, and was opposite Stapleton's-wharf—at a little before 9 o'clock in the evening, I saw Bransgrove, and Juett, and another man, go to the barge, and one of the prisoners—I believe it was Bransgrove—carried off three sacks into a shed which Juson is the keeper of—I saw two men near the shed at the time, but I was not near enough to see who they were—I saw three sacks carried, and, as I was getting over some palings, I saw another sack, or part of one, earned—the barge left about 20 minutes afterwards—I saw the barge again about 11 o'clock at night, at the lock at Camden-town—I then went on board and saw Bransgrove and Juett in the cabin—I told them I wanted them for stealing four sacks of corn, the property of the London General Omnibus Company—Bransgrove said, "I have never seen any corn since I left the Company's wharf this morning about half-past 10 o'clock—I cautioned him, and then asked him whether he had left any corn that night, and whether he knew a man of the name of Juson, in the Paddington-basin?—he said again "he had not left any corn since he left the Company's-wharf in the morning—I spoke to Juett, and asked him the same questions, and he also denied it—I then asked Bransgrove whether he had seen Juson—he said he had not—I commenced searching the cabin, and in one corner I found a sack with the name of Juson on it—I asked them how they came by that sack, and Bransgrove said he knew nothing about it—I then took them to the Paddington-station in a cab—I then went to Jusons premises and searched, and under a quantity of straw I found four sacks of oats—a sack contains four bushels—there was one sack containing oats, which was marked "London General Omnibus Company;" that was under the straw—there were two sacks containing oats, marked "James Thomas," and one sack full of oats with the name of Walker on it.

Cross-examined by MR. LAWRENCE. Q. What time did you see Bransgrove carry the sacks? A. About 9 o'clock at night—I was twenty-five or thirty yards from the shed—Bransgrove came from the barge up to the shed with the corn on his shoulder—I saw three sacks distinctly; not at once—he returned each time—I had not seen him before—when I saw him in the evening, about eleven o'clock, I charged him with stealing four sacks—I saw him carry three distinctly, and he carried something else, but I could not distinctly see what it was—I could not stop him; I was on the other side of the water—I could not get to the barge before eleven o'clock at night—I knew one of the Company's servants was suspected—when I went on board I found them both in the cabin—I have been told Bransgrove is the master, and Juett the man—this sack that I have brought to-day I got from Juson's shed, after I had apprehended the other two men—when I got this sack, it was full of corn—it is marked "London General Omnibus Company"—there were no more than four sacks when I went on board the barge—I don't know that Juett is the nephew of Bransgrove.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. You found four empty sacks in the barge? A. Yes—the barge was on its way back—before I saw the sacks carried from the barge, it had been partly unloaded in the Company's service—they were unloading that barge the day before, on the Friday morning—I first saw the barge at the Company's wharf about ten o'clock on Friday morning, the 29th—I saw Bransgrove and Juett were there unloading it—I saw one of the Company's servants there—about half-past 10 o'clock, I saw that the barge had been removed—it had finished unloading all but the four sacks—I

believe some of the Company's servants have been subpoenaed here as witnesses—I saw clearly three sacks carried, and I believe a fourth—I did not follow the barge; I went and met it—having seen them do this, I asked them whether they had done it—it was not for the purpose of catching them—it was to hear what they would say: whether they would tell the truth or not, and whatever the answer might have been to my question, I would have repeated it here—I don't know whether they knew that I was a constable—there was another constable with me—it is my practice to put questions to prisoners, and whatever their answer might be, I should repeat it in a court of justice—I did not take down on paper what they said—I took the two bargemen about eleven o'clock, and Juson was taken about four o'clock in the morning.

JAMES WALKER . I am in the employ of Mr. Stapleton—he has a wharf called Stapleton's wharf—I recollect on 29th April seeing a barge of Mr. Thomas's opposite my master's wharf; I saw Bransgrove and Juett in it—at a little before 9 o'clock at night I was in my own boat—I saw Juson's barge lying along side of the wharf, close by the stern of Thomas's barge—I saw Bransgrove and Juett pull the barge back alongside of Mr. Juson's boat—I came down to the comer of my own boat, and I saw Bransgrove carry three sacks of corn into Mr. Juson's shed—I saw Mr. Juson at that time; he stood inside the shed—I came up the yard, and soon afterwards the two bargemen and Mr. Juson came to the Lord Hill public-house.

Cross-examined by MR. LAWRENCE. Q. What are you? A. A boatman—I work a boat myself, any where where I can get work—I rent the boat of Mr. Stapleton—I do his work when he has got any for me to do—it was about 9 o'clock when I saw what I have stated—I was in my own boat on the canal—I could step off my boat on to Stapleton's wharf—any body could see me, and I saw there were two men in a barge—I never saw the two men before.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. How long have you been in the employ of Mr. Stapleton? A. I should say ten or eleven years—I never took any hay at all—Mr. Juson did not follow me down to the City-road and charge me with taking hay—my wife did not interfere—I took the hay to Mr. Stapleton, for him to swear to it—I did not say that I would do for him.

MR. LEWIS. Q. What about this hay? A. I bought a truss of hay, and the police said they came to take me as a witness—they told me I bought a truss of hay on Sunday afternoon, or Monday morning, and Mr. Juson followed and said it was a truss of hay belonging to him—I said, "I don't know nothing about that—if it does belong to you, it is in the boat at the wharf."

THOMAS BUNGAY (Policeman D 161). I recollect on 29th April I was near the Lord Hill public-house—the three prisoners were inside the house—I went and concealed myself—I saw the prisoners come down to the wharf together—Juson went into a shed, and Bransgrove and Juett went into a barge, which was Mr. Thomas's—they shoved the barge alongside of the wharf, and I saw them bring out four sacks of oats; Bransgrove carried them, and Juett was assisting to get them on his back—they were taken into the shed where Juson was—I saw Juson there—I saw the last of the four sacks delivered at the shed, and on the delivery of the last sack Juson said, "Is that all?" and Bransgrove said, "Yes,"—they left, and Juson fastened the door of the shed with a piece of straw, and they went to the Lord Hill public-house—I afterwards searched the shed and found there four sacks, one with the name of the London General Omnibus Company on it; two of Mr. Thomas's; and one, I believe, with the name Walker on it—Potter and I took Bransgrove and Juett in custody; we went to the cabin where they

were—Potter told them we took them for stealing some oats belonging to the London General Omnibus Company—they said they knew nothing about it; they had not delivered any oats that night—Bransgrove said that—Potter picked up a sack in the cabin with Mr. Thomas's name on it; he asked them how they became possessed of it—they said, "Sacks will get mixed at times,"—Potter then asked if they had delivered any corn that night at Mr. Juson's—they said no; they did not know him, and they had not delivered any corn that night—we took them to the Paddington station—I afterwards went to Juson's house, I told him I must take him in custody for receiving some corn from two bargemen, belonging to the London General Omnibus Company, knowing it to be stolen; he said he knew nothing about it—I took him to the station.

Cross-examined by MR. LAWRENCE. Q. Were you in the shed when you saw these sacks delivered? A. No; I was behind a cart about ten yards from the barge—I looked, but I did not see any more sacks in the shed but these four—I took no part in the conversation—I think Juett's age is about sixteen on the charge sheet.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Juson is a dealer in corn? A. Yes, and he has premises in a street leading to the wharf—this shed is on the wharf—I don't know that there is any lock on it—when he came out he fastened it with a bit of straw.

JOHN TREVITT . I am superintendant of police for the London General Omnibus Company—this sack is the property of that Company—the value of it is about 3s.—the value of the sixteen bushels of oats would be about 2l. 6s.—I have no doubt the oats are the property of the Company.

Cross-examined by MR. LAWRENCE. Q. Is there a name on this sack? A. Yes, I don't know that sacks very often get into the hands of other people—the sacks sent out with mixed provender may do so, but not this description of sack—we do not sell corn; Mr. Thomas has to convey the corn to our place.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. How many sacks have you? A. 300 or more—Mr. Thomas has them for the use of the Company—I don't keep any account of the number we have in store—these never ought to be but at Mr. Thomas's barge or in our Company's—I have not taken stock to know how many are in our place, and how many Mr. Thomas has—there is a report to me of the corn delivered—I have not brought my books—I don't know that notice has been given to mo, or to some one on the part of the Company, to produce the books; the books show the number that we are led to suppose have been delivered—they would not show the number which have been actually delivered—I have not one of our men here—I compared the corn at the Police-court—I have no sample here.

JAMES THOMAS re-examined. These two sacks with my name on them are mine—no corn was carried in these sacks but that belonging to the London General Omnibus Company.

Cross-examined by MR. LAWRENCE. Q. Do you sometimes have the Company's sacks in your possession? A. Yes; and no doubt my sacks would get into the hands of the Company, and into the hands of other people.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. And have you sacks belonging to other people? A. I don't admit that.

The prisoners received excellent characters.

BRANSGROVE— GUILTY. Recommended to mercy by the Jury. Confined Two Months.

JUSON— GUILTY . Confined Nine Months.


There was another indictment against the prisoners on which no evidence was offered.

THIRD COURT.—Thursday, May 12th, 1859.


Before Mr. Common Sergeant and the Seventh Jury.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-506
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

506. MARGARET CONNOR (22) , Maliciously inflicting upon Cornelius Girren grievous bodily harm.

MR. MC DONALD conducted the Prosecution.

JEREMIAH GIRREN . I am a paper-stainer, of 10, Fireball-court, Houndsditch—on Sunday, 3d April, between 2 and 3 in the afternoon, my mother was going down the court and a nail was thrown at her—she wanted to know who threw it—the prisoner was standing by, and my brother, who was coming up the court, asked her if she threw it—she and my brother had a bit of a quarrel, but that was all settled, and my brother went up stairs—about 6 o'clock my brother had a quarrel with the prisoner's mother, but that was hushed, and they all went home and kept quiet till 11 o'clock, when the prisoner's sister came to my brother's room and asked him to fight—he was in bed, but he came down stairs—four of them got beaten—the prisoner and her sister and their husbands were there—my brother and the prisoner's husband got fighting, and the prisoner's husband and the prisoner and her sister-in-law knocked my brother down—the prisoner then went in at her own door, took out a chopper, and slashed him on the head, and the blood flowed—the force of the blow knocked him down—the prisoner then came in-doors.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Did you always say that it was a chopper that did it? A. Yes; my brother could see it as well as me—he did not say that he did not know whether it was a man or a woman did it—I and my people have not always been annoying the prisoner and her husband—I never had a quarrel with them before—the quarrel was all about a nail being thrown.

CORNELIUS GIRREN . I am a paper-stainer, and live in Fireball-court—on 3d April, about 6 o'clock, I had a quarrel with the prisoner—her husband had hit me, and when I was in bed, about 11 o'clock I was asked to go down and fight him—I went down, and found him and the prisoner and her sister's husband—the prisoner's husband hit me, and I hit him again, and while we were fighting the prisoner hit me with a weapon on the head—I fell, and was taken to the London hospital, where I stopped from 12 on that evening till the Monday afternoon about 5, and am still weak from the effects of it.

Cross-examined. Q. Were there a number of people round? A. Yes; a great number live in the court—there are gas lights there—I have not heard that one of my friends had a shovel in her hand—I did not tell the policeman that I did not know whether it was a man or a woman who hit me—I said that it was Margaret Connor—when I was called up the prisoner's sister came into my-room, broke a chair and some glasses, and seized me by the hair to come down and fight her husband—I had been drinking, but was not much in liquor—I had been in bed about an hour.

HENRY CLAYTON . On this Sunday night I was passing through the court, and saw them all waiting for Girren to come down—he and Connor began to fight, and Connor knocked him down—they got up again, closed again, and Mrs. Connor struck him on the head with a chopper—they then all ran in doors as fast as they could, and left Girren standing up in the

court—he did not fall with the blow—I took him first to a doctor, and then to the London Hospital.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you certain you were there? A. Yes—I know Mrs. White—I have not in her presence told a person named Marks that I knew nothing of it, but they induced me to come forward and speak against the prisoner—I swear I was there—there were not a great number of people round—I cannot tell you how many—Connor did not call out, "Help, help! this man will murder me," nor anything like it—I did not see a man there with a shovel—the prosecutor's brother had not a shovel in his hand—it was not done by a shovel—I am not friendly with the prosecutor—I do not live in the court, but in Leadenhall-street—I was passing by—I knew Mrs. Connor before—she has lived in that place about two years, to my recollection—I have not been constantly in Fireball-yard—I know a little of the prosecutor.

HANNAH MORE . On 3d April I got out of bed, hearing a row—I saw the prisoner there, and Cornelius Girren—I shoved the prisoner in doors, because I saw some blood—she was in the row. I suppose—I do not know what she was doing—I saw nothing in her hand—I pushed her because there was a row, and I wanted to get her in—I saw them fighting and shoved her in—I saw Girren gored in blood, and it was after that that I pushed the prisoner in—before that she had been in the mob where the man lay, and I pulled her out of the mob—she was standing next the man who was bleeding—I had not seen her do anything—I saw a chopper there—I took it from a female—I do not know whether it was from the prisoner—I do not think I took it from the prisoner's hands—that was before I pushed the prisoner into her room—I pushed her in directly I took the chopper from somebody.

Q. On your oath, will you swear you did not take the chopper from the prisoner? A. I cannot perjure myself—I have got no more to say—I cannot say who I took it from—I cannot say that it was not from the prisoner—I received a blow on the temple at the time, but do not know who hit me.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you go before the Magistrate? A. No—I did not see a person with a shovel or a poker—I have lived there a long time—I do not know whether they have been insulting the prisoner a long time—I go out to work every day.

ALFRED GODDARD (City policeman, 671). On 3d'April I was in Houndsditch—I saw a quantity of people collected—I asked the prosecutor what was the matter, as lie was covered with blood—he told me he did not know who struck him—his father-in-law asked me to take the prisoner in custody—I did not see the prisoner—I saw no chopper—I did not see Henry Clayton there till the prosecutor got to the bottom of the court, and then he took him to the doctor's—he was bleeding a good deal—I took the prisoner about half-past 1.

Cross-examined. Q. Did not he tell you he did not know whether he was struck by a man or a woman? A. He did—I saw no poker or shovel in any one's hands, but I heard that there was one—the prisoner was in bed when I took her—I searched the house, but could not find a chopper, nor did I see one produced in the court by anybody—I did not search for a chopper in the other houses—before this I was called in to assist Mrs. Connor, as the door was broken in—that court is one of the most disorderly places in the city, and I believe almost all the people in the court are against the prisoner, as she is one of the most respectable persons there—there is a regular war against them.

MR. MC DONALD . Q. Did the prosecutor seem faint from loss of blood? A. Yes; it was at that time he said he did not know whether it was a man or a woman—he was confused and dizzy.

WILLIAM HENRY HILL . I am house-surgeon at the London Hospital—early on the morning of 4th April the prosecutor was brought there, and I superintended the dressing of his wound—it was a lacerated wound of the scalp—it could not have been inflicted by the edge of a chopper, it was too jagged, but the back of a chopper might produce it—a fire-shovel might produce it.

Cross-examined. Q. Would a fire-shovel be likely to produce such a wound? A. Yes—a fall would produce it, if his head came against the kerb, or anything of that sort, or a heavy boot with an iron tip.

MR. MC DONALD . Q. Did he lose much blood? A. He appeared to have—he seemed to be in a state of semi-intoxication—he was confused in his brain, and he smelt of liquor—there was danger of erysipelas from the wound—he would go oat next day, though he was not in a fit state—he went out entirely against my wish—if it was inflicted by an instrument, the person would have been standing sideways, or more towards his back.

Witnesses for the Defence.

JAMES MC CARTHY . I was there when the prosecutor came down, and at the beginning of the fight—I saw the prisoner there all the time—I saw no chopper in her hand—if she had one I must have seen it—she had neither chopper, poker, shovel, or any weapon—she was protecting her husband all the time—I saw no one in the crowd with a fire-shovel or poker.

Cross-examined by MR. MC DONALD. Q. What time did the row take place? A. About 11 oclock—I had not been in bed—I had just finished supper—I was perfectly sober—there were forty or fifty people during the row—the court was full; they arrived out of all quarters—I do not know Hannah More—I never saw her before yesterday—I did not see her there that night, but she might have been—I did not notice anybody particularly except those engaged in the row—I did not see the woman take a chopper from any woman—I saw no chopper there at all—if such had been done, being perfectly sober, I must have seen it as well as others—I was present when the row began, and until it ended—it ended by the prisoner having to fly in doors with her husband—they were overpowered, and actually pushed in doors by the people—I did not go into the house,—I remained on the ground all the time—I saw the prosecutor fall in a tustle with the prisoner's husband—I saw him get up, and saw the blood flow—the prisoner was defending her husband at that time: protecting him—she had her arms around him—I first saw the blood after the fall—I cannot swear the prisoner did not use a chopper to the prosecutor, but I saw nothing of the kind.

MR. COOPER. Q. What do you mean by saying that you cannot swear that the prisoner did not use a chopper? A. I say that she used no chopper—I cannot say that I kept my eyes on her the whole time, but the time I did keep my eyes on her I never saw her use a chopper.

COURT. Q. Do you know how the prosecutor came to fall down? A. He ran at the prisoner's husband; they had a tustle, and both fell down together—I then saw blood flow the first time—it lasted two or three minutes.

MARGARET HALEY . I heard a noise, got up, looked out at my window, and saw the prisoner standing at my door, and her husband outside of her—I said to her, "Go in doors on the blessed Sunday night"—she said, "I cannot help it; what can I do?"—the prosecutor rushed out of his house,

naked all except his trousers, and down he went, and cracked his head—I heard the sound of his head cracking against the stones—I saw the prisoner—I saw no chopper in her hand—if she had I should have seen it, and I saw her just before the man had the crack on the head—I was right opposite her, and told her to go in—I saw nobody with pokers or shovels—I have known the prisoner four years—she is a hardworking woman—I never heard her have a noise with anybody.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know Hannah More? A. Yes—I did not see her there, but I heard she was there—I did not see her try to take a chopper from the prisoner, nor any other person—I did not see the last of it, there were so many people.

MARGARET CARNEY . I saw this fight from beginning to end—I saw them struggling, and the prosecutor fell—it was a very weighty fall, it shook the place—I saw blood when he got up—I saw the prisoner all that time—the prosecutor was in his naked skin, and he ran and put his arms round my son-in-law, Connor—I was with the prisoner the whole time, and she had no chopper or weapon from first to last—she was alongside of me when the fight, at 11 o'clock, commenced; and if she had anything in her hand I must have seen it—she never left me, and I was the last one that went into the room—she never went into the house till she was pushed in—a little fellow came behind her and hit her with a shovel on the head.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know Mrs. Morel? A. Yes—I did not see her until the latter end of the row—it was quite over before she came—there were numbers of other women present—I saw no weapon, but I saw the shovel in the boy's hand.


9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-507
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

Related Material

507. RACHEL PHILLIPS (21), and HANNAH PHILLIPS (20) , Unlawfully keeping a disorderly house and brothel.

The witnesses did not appear.


9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-508
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

508. ALFRED BOYDELL LAMBE (48) , Stealing, on 21st December, 2 gallons of brandy, 36 bottles, 36 corks, and 1 hamper, value 4l. 1s. Second Count—on 3d January, 12 gallons of sherry, 4 gallons of brandy, and 96 bottles and corks, value 21l. Third Count—on 25th January, 1 cask, value 9s. 6d., of John Jones, his master.

MESSRS. GIFFARD and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

JOSEPH START . I live at 17, Robert-street, Hoxton, and am now cellarman in Mr. Jones's employ—I was formerly in the prisoner's employ—I remember some gin being fetched from Messrs. Booth's by a man named Seares—it was at the latter end of December, but I do not remember the day—it was brought into the cellar, and I packed it the same day—I bottled 2 gallons of brandy, 1 gallon of pale and 1 of brown—it was in the free part of Mr. Jones's cellar—I bottled the brandy by Mr. Selwood's directions—the prisoner was present—I don't know whether Mr. Jones was on the premises, but it was bottled by 9 or 10 in the morning—after I had mottled the brandy, I packed it and the gin in a hamper—I am not able to say whether there was a bottle of sherry or another bottle of brandy—I addressed the hamper, "Mr. Austin, Canterbury"—Mr. Selwood gave me that address—I left it in the cellar, and do not know at what time it was sent out—on January 1st I bottled three dozen of pale, and three dozen of brown, sherry from cask No. 2, in the free part of the cellar, by Mr. Lambe's direction, and I bottled off at the same time some brown brandy, and some pale brandy, from casks in the cellar—that was on Saturday, towards evening—I do not

remember whether Mr. Jones was there—they were put into baskets—on Monday morning, 3d January, I placed one basket on a truck, and Seares assisted me—I do not know whether Mr. Lambe or Mr. Selwood directed him to do so, but Mr. Lambe asked me to help Seares to put them on the truck, and then Seares went away with the truck.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Was any of the bottling or corking done at midnight, or under any concealment or secrecy? A. No—in our business hours; just as I have bottled a thousand times before, and put on the truck in the ordinary way—I had been for years in Mr. Lambe's employment before I was with Mr. Jones—Mr. Lambe, at the latter part, had the same control over the business as he had years before—I have heard talk of his having dispossessed himself of his share of the business some time before I went before the Lord Mayor—I remember when he was in some pecuniary difficulties—it was after that that Mr. Jones came—Mr. Lambe did not continue to come there just as before—when Mr. Jones first came he was absent altogether for two or three months, but, after that, he used to come in the morning and go away in the afternoon—Mr. Jones used to come almost every day—I was told that there was a change, but not by Mr. Lambe—I never had anything to do with the docks—empty casks were sent down to the docks from the vaults for the purpose of wines being racked off—when this hamper was sent off, not only myself but Selwood, Seares, and my brother assisted.

MR. POLAND. Q. Selwood has been discharged from Mr. Jones's employ, has he not? A. Yes—we all talked about the transfer of the business in 1857—all the names were changed—Lambe's name was painted out, and Mr. Jones's name painted up—Mr. Lambe used to pay me my wages when I came into the employ of Mr. Jones, and afterwards Mr. Selwood paid me—I considered Mr. Jones as the principal—Mr. Lambe was absent two or three months when the change of name took place.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Before Mr. Jones appeared there, who ordinarily paid the wages? A. Selwood; and after Mr. Jones appeared, Selwood continued to pay them just the same—Mr. Jones is my master—I obey Mr. Lambe's orders—Mr. Jones asked me how much wages I had been used to have, and said he had a good character of me—Selwood was not present then.

JOHN START . I live at 6, John-street, Curtain-road, and am under cellarman to Mr. Jones—I was not employed as under cellarman till after Mr. Jones had the business—on 21st December I helped my brother Joseph to bottle and pack some brandy and gin—it was directed to Mr. Austin, Canterbury—Lambe was there when I took it away to the cloak room, London-bridge station, about 9 o'clock in the morning—I do not know whether that was before Mr. Jones came—I took no porter's book to the station—it was usual when I delivered goods to have them entered in the porter's book, and to get the signature in it of the person to whom they are delivered as the receipt for them—I did not take it on this occasion, because as some stations they will not sign for anything, and nothing was said about it—on Monday, 3d January, I remember Seares going with a truck, with some brandy and sherry, to Ely-place—at this time Mr. Jones's van was going up Holborn, past Ely-place—the van came up just as he set off, but it was not put into the van—I assisted in bottling the sherry and brandy on the previous Saturday.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you told to take them slyly and quietly away? A. No—I have been there going on for four years—I have a delivery book as well as a porter's book.

MR. POLAND. Q. Were these things entered in the delivery book? A. Yes.

LEWIS SEARES . I live at 3, Brown's-buildings, City—I was formerly porter to Mr. Jones—on 27th December I fetched some gin from Messrs. Booth's, by the direction of Mr. Lambe and Mr. Selwood—Mr. Selwood gave me the money to pay for it in Mr. Lambe's presence—I got the gin, brought it, and gave the invoice to Mr. Selwood in Mr. Jones's cellar—I took some goods to Messrs. Curtis, of Ely-place, on 3d January, on a truck in baskets, about nine o'clock—it was two dozen of brandy and six dozen of sherry—I took no delivery book with me—it is the custom when I deliver goods to take a delivery book—the porter's book is the same thing—I asked Mr. Lambe if there was a delivery book to go, and he said "No, the goods are paid for"—he gave me a note to take—I took it with the goods to Messrs. James and Curtis—he said that if they said anything to me about the hamper and bottles, I was to bring them back; but, if they said nothing, I was to come away without them and say nothing about it—I told Mr. Selwood, in Mr. Lambe's presence, that the load was too heavy, the truck not being sound, and Mr. Selwood said that the goods should be tied on—I did not notice the van at the door when I started—I afterwards delivered the brandy and sherry to James and Curtis, and the note with it.

GEORGE AUSTIN . I am a solicitor, and reside at the Precincts, Canterbury—I know Lambe—I received a hamper from him in December, containing brandy and gin, which had been ordered by my direction—this letter, and invoice (produced) arrived the same day—they are both in the prisoner's writing.

CHARLES JOHN CURTIS . I am a member of the firm of James and Curtis, of 23, Ely-place—I knew the prisoner—in January, 1859, he owed our firm an account—he called on me last September, in consequence of a letter, to sign the counterpart of a lease—he said, "It is not convenient for me to pay your account now, will you let it stand over?"—I said, "Yes"—and he said if I would give him an order he should be obliged—I gave him an order for 6 dozen of sherry and 2 dozen of brandy; but the order was not given at the time he called—it not being executed, I wrote a letter to him requesting a delivery.

DAVID WILLIAMS . I am clerk to Messrs. Humphreys and Son, attorneys for the prosecution—I served a copy of a notice to produce, on the prisoner and on his solicitor, last Saturday.

Cross-examined. Q. Mr. Lambe went there by appointment to receive it, did he not? A. Yes. (A copy of the letter was here read—it stated that the wine had not been received, and requested Lambe to forward it without delay).

MR. POLAND to C. J. CURTIS. Q. Who did you direct that letter to? A. Mr. Lambe—I was not aware of any arrangement with Mr. Jones—the goods were afterwards delivered early in January; and I found this letter from Mr. Lambe on my desk when I came back from town—I do not know whether my bill of charges was more than the amount of these goods, as I have not had an invoice—my bill is about 24l., but I am not positive (Letter read)" 3d January, 1859. Royal Exchange Vaults. Messrs. James and Curtis. Dear sirs—I have to apologise for not forwarding your order earlier—I have now sent the three dozen pale and brown sherry, and cognac—the whisky shall be forwarded to-day or to-morrow—Alfred B. Lambe."

Cross-examined. Q. Had you bought wines and spirits of Mr. Lambe in the same way before? A. Yes, for three or four years—we sent directions

for the goods to be sent before 9 in the morning, as we have sleeping-rooms over the office—there was nothing unusual in that—I have known Mr. Lambe six years—he has behaved very straightforward.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. To what extent has he supplied you with goods in the three or four years? A. I cannot say—orders have sometimes been given on account of the firm and sometimes on my private account, but neither my account, or the firm's, exceeded 5l. at a time—I was not aware of the change in the business or I should not have given the order—I thought I was dealing with Mr. Lambe—I went there at the time I gave the order, and saw him sitting in the counting-house as usual—I tasted some wines, and gave him the order—I did not notice the name of Jones.

WILLIAM THOMAS DAVID JONES . I recollect Monday morning, 3d January—I did not receive some wine and brandy—I did not see it brought—I saw a letter.

FREDERICK GOODBODY . I live at 7, Jamaica-street, Commercial-road East, and am Mr. Jones's foreman—I went into his service on the 27th March, 1858—he hired me and paid me my wages from time to time—on 25th January, between 9 and 10 o'clock in the morning, I took an empty hogs-head to the Custom-house quay, by Mr. Lambe's order, from the premises where my master was, on the free side—I came at 9 o'clock that morning, and happened to come without my van—as soon as I got down below, the prisoner asked me if I had brought my barrow—I said, "No"—he said I must get it directly, as he had three empty hogsheads to go down to the docks—I took out one, and found two others waiting outside for me—I went with Mr. Jones on the 18th to recognise this hogshead—I found them in the west vault, Custom-house quay, full of hock—I took no porter's delivery-book with me.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you mean that the hock had been racked off into the cask that you had taken down? A. Yes—I had never known that to be done before—I bad only been there since March.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Did you take this order with you? A. Yes—the prisoner gave it me. Read—"Cooper, Custom-house Quay—please receive three empty hogsheads for racking operation ex. Battavier—A. B. Lambe."

WILLIAM HODGES , I am cooper at the West Vaults, Custom-house quay—I received this note (produced) in January, with some casks—I afterwards racked some hock into them; not in consequence of this note, but with a racking order.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know that that has been done over and over again? A. Yes; it is the constant practice—I have not known them come from Mr. Lambe's place before.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Did you receive this tasting order in the way of business? A. Yes; it refers to this cask, and is signed A. B. Lambe—these casks were not sent to Mr. Lambe; they are there now.

JOHN JONES . I am a wine, spirit, and beer merchant—in November, 1857, the prisoner was taken into my service, at a salary of 4l. a-week—it was his duty to obtain orders, enter them in the book, and see them properly delivered—I have never sanctioned or known of any goods leaving my vaults without an entry being first made in the porter's book—I have examined the order book and porter's book of 21st December—the order should be entered in both; in the order book when ordered, and in the porter's book when delivered—in the ordinary course the customer would sign the delivery book—it is usually signed by the servant, if the master is

not at home—from those books I make out my cash book—there is no entry in the books of any gin or brandy for Mr. Austin, of Canterbury—there is no delivery of those goods on 21st December, at the cloak-room at the Brighton Railway—there is no entry in the order book of six dozen of sherry and two dozen of brandy, to James and Curtis, of Ely-place, nor in the porter's book—I remember the prisoner asking my leave to execute an order for James and Curtis; that was before January 4th—I did not give him leave; I positively refused—I first found out on 31st January that that order had been executed—I had no gin in stock on 21st December—the prices put against the account sent to Austin are the regular market prices—I missed an empty sherry hogshead from the cellar about February 1st or 2d—I did not speak to the prisoner about it; I made enquiries of the cellar-man; and in consequence of information I received, I went, on 11th February, to the west vault of the Custom-house quay, and recognised it full of something, which I did not taste—I have searched the porter's book to see if there was any delivery of that cask—the sending an empty cask to the docks would find its way into the porter's book—I adhere to the strict rule, that nothing shall leave the premises without a signature and receipt—I knew the hands I was in originally—Mr. Tucker has been the solicitor to Mr. Lambe—I never heard that Lambe claimed to be a partner till I made a charge against him.

Cross-examined. Q. Not the slightest pretence for anything of the kind? A. None. When I said that I knew originally the hands I was in, I meant with reference to Lambe,—a 100l. cheque will be produced presently—I very likely became acquainted with Mr. Lambe about 1853; it was by calling at his place of business—that was at the Exchange; the very vaults that I am in now—I had a business at Pimlico, as licensed victualler, at that time—I called on him, introduced myself to him, and asked him if he was open to entertain terms to admit me as a partner—I introduced myself as a person anxious to become his partner, if I could—at that time the negociation between us went off—I could not find as much capital as he required to admit me as a partner—he had at that time another business in Bond-street, which I ascertained was not only his, but had been his father's, and had been in the family for the last thirty or forty years—he told me in 1853 that I might go there, and stay there for a week or two, and see if I liked it, and he and I could come to terms—I did so, but did not like it, and therefore gave up entering into partnership with him in respect of that business or the other—I did not see much of him between then and November, 1855—I believe I called on him twice between 1853 and 1857, and each time I mooted the subject again, whether the opportunity had arrived for me to enter into partnership with him—in 1857, he called on me at my place in Chelsea, at 7 o'clock in the morning—it was the day of meeting of his creditors—he said that he was in some pecuniary difficulties, in consequence of being obliged to enlarge the premises; that the opportunity had then arrived when I might treat with him for a share in the business; that he had been unfortunate, and his affairs were in the hands of his creditors, who would be meeting that day at 12 o'clock, and would I meet him at his solicitor's that morning to make an offer, that he might make a composition with his creditors?—I agreed to go, and went—I was to produce 520l.—I attended the meeting at Messrs. Tuckers'—the difficulty in which Mr. Lambe was, was discussed; and the negotiation was that I should advance a certain sum of money, in order to enable him to compound with

his creditors—that was proposed, and I agreed to it—that was the first proposition for the purchase; but that all went off, and the establishment was afterwards sold.

Q. Was there not a negotiation between you and Mr. Lambe, in the presence of Mr. Tucker, to the effect that if you would advance a certain sum of money, sufficient to pay the composition, that Mr. Lambe should retain his interest in the vaults, until such time as an agreement could be come to between you, by deed? A. No; I bought it out—under the first arrangement I was to produce a small sum; and while I was ascertaining what I was to have for my money, it was sold over my head-the basis of the first arrangement certainly was that he should retain his interest in the vaults; but it went off—a meeting of creditors was held that very day, after which I had an interview with Mr. Tucker, who said that he accepted my offer of 3s. in the pound—it was a letter which said that he accepted my offer—Mr. Humphreys has that letter. (Mr. GIFFARD stated that he could not put the letter in as his evidence.) I called on Mr. Tucker subsequently to receiving the letter, and he told that 750l. would be required within a very few days, and I agreed with him at that interview to furnish that amount—Mr. Lambe was present—he was to retain no share in the business: are you speaking of the first interview, or the second—If the 750l. was advanced, he was to retain an interest—the arrangement was that I was to make him a present of half the profits per annum, if I found it answered my purpose—the place was shut up, and an execution put in—I have no recollection of promising him half the profits; I believe I should not have been so foolish; it was that I should make him a present of half the profits per year, after it had produced me 500l. a-year, clear of all expenses.

Q. Then, for 750l. you were to have first 500l. clear, and then make him a present? A. You forget the mortgage—some days did not elapse before I could find the money—I was going through the valuation to see how much I was going to have for my money—Mr. Tucker did not apply to me for the money to pay the first instalment to the creditors; the money was ready—I was going through the valuation—no doubt I was asked to pay, and I did not, for the best of all reasons—Mr. Tucker did not tell me that, as I had not found the money, and as Mr. Lambe's creditors were pressing, he should be obliged to conclude the arrangement with a gentleman named Chambers—that was communicated to me by letter, by Mr. Tucker; on which I complained to Mr. Tucker of an arrangement being made with Mr. Chambers, and requested him to see if that arrangement could not be cancelled, and I get an interest in the business—that was by words—Mr. Tucker did not see me a few days afterwards, and say that it had been arranged, and Mr. Chambers would give up his claim and let me in, in consideration of 100l. being paid him; I heard of it after I had bought the place—Mr. Lambe called on me, and told me that Mr. Chambers had kindly done so, in consideration of Mr. Lambe's large family, in order that he might have a better agreement with me—I told Mr. Tucker I would buy it, but would have nothing to do with the first agreement, that was, the division of profits—the whole of the money, 1,650l., was to be found in two months.

Q. You have told us that that was to buy the business entirely out; I ask you, in Mr. Tucker's presence, was not the arrangement, after Mr. Chambers had been got rid of, that Mr. Lambe should have half the profits, as before arranged, with this variation, that 250l. for the bonding department, and 250l. for the free, should be take? A. 250l. on each side

made the 500l., which I was to have for my capital, and then I should have made him a present, if he had remained an honest man, although I said at first that there must be an end to the first agreement, that was, provided I ran no risk; I should have said, "Well, I am paying you 4l. a week salary," and I should have made him a present then of 42l.; or, if the profits, were double or treble, in proportion—it was not an explicit understanding between me and Mr. Tucker that Lambe was to have half the profits annually; but I should have made him a present—I said that I should make him a present—it was Mr. Tucker's own suggestion that it should be in the shape of salary, so as to avoid partnership—it was not of half the profits; they would have been a quarter; 42l.; half the profits after the 500l. had been paid, supposing it had produced as much—I mentioned it being in the shape of salary in Mr. Tucker's presence; that I would make him a present; any way to avoid a partnership—he was to have equivalent to one-fourth the surplus profits, after the 500l., in some shape or form, present or salary—I see Mr. Chambers here—he was not present, but I saw him at his office after that conversation; and there was a conversation between us in reference to Mr. Lambe—I told Mr. Chambers that I had come to an agreement with Mr. Lambe that there was to be no deed at present; but that I considered myself more bound in honour than if there had been a deed to give him half the profits, if it produced it; that he was to have a share in the profits of the concern, and an interest in it, subject to my 500l. which produced it—I did not go into particulars with Mr. Chambers, to tell him about the 500l.—thin was in November, 1857—I found the necessary money, and the name was painted out, and my name painted up—that was not, to my knowledge, in order that the creditors should not know that he had an interest in the business—I told him to be out of town, and that it would be better for him to stay away from the business for two or three months—that was to prevent his being where he is now—I paid 100l. extra to keep him out of Newgate—that was for warrants—I mean to tell my Lord and the jury that there was a charge against him of a criminal nature, about the mortgage—I have mentioned that before; not at the Mansion House—you are to understand that there was a criminal charge against him; a charge of felony, and I gave him permission to be at these vaults three or four months afterwards, day by day, conducting the business—Mr. Tucker can tell you better than I can what offence he was charged with, because I handed the money to Mr. Tucker—the criminal charge was about abstracting warrants from the warrant book of the Royal Exchange, leaving an empty double butt there instead of a full one for the man who had bought it—he was not to my knowledge charged with that offence at any police court or criminal court in the metropolis—he began to draw his 4l. a week on January 11th, and continued to draw all through the year—he did not draw the 4l. all the time he was away; he went out of town previously—he did not draw it while he was absent, or, when he came back, for the time he was absent, and has never been paid it in any shape or form—he did not draw it till 11th January—I knew his reasons for his absence—I have a wages slip (The COURT considered that no question could be asked about this, it being the best evidence of its contents). In November, 1858, when twelve months from the time of this arrangement was approaching, Mr. Tucker had an interview with me on the subject of the interview between me and Mr. Lambe—he said nothing about the time having arrived when it should be embraced in a document—he suggested that a memorandum should be given by me; and I agreed that any

memorandum my solicitor advised, I would give—it was a memorandum to carry out the arrangement between me and Mr. Lambe—it was not my suggestion to Mr. Tucker, that the agreement should not be entered into till 1st January, because it would be more convenient to take stock at the end of the year—that was to ascertain my profit and loss—between 18th November and the beginning of the year I had several interviews with Mr. Tucker, Mr. Lambe, and my own solicitor, it may have been two or three; when drafts of deeds were discussed—I objected to a portion of it and Mr. Lambe to a portion of it—as far as the profits I should have made him a present of a quarter—I should have adhered to my original idea of making him a present—I mean to tell these twelve gentlemen that that deed was being proposed to enable me to make him a present in the shape of salary; anything to avoid a partnership—this was in December, and I first knew of a robbery, by him, on 31st January—I mentioned it at Mr. Tucker's office for the first time, and he asked that he might have a week given to him—I found that Mr. Lambe was robbing me and that he had sent goods to Ely-place—I saw him after I had made that statement to Mr. Tucker—I told him what I thought of him, and that he had robbed others, and told him to be off—I did not mince words—I received a letter a week or ten days after that from Messrs. Wickens and Burton in reference to this very charge which I had made against Mr. Lambe—between that time and the week or ten days afterwards, when I mentioned it to Wickens and Burton, I took steps to prosecute him—I asked him to explain himself, and finding he never kept his appointments, I went to Wickens and Burton, his new solicitors, who he had just brushed up—I do not know now that they had been his solicitors for years, not till this moment; not for years; I knew that they had been for the last month—Mr. Tucker I always knew as his solicitor, but afterwards I went to Mr. Wickens—after I had made that statement to Mr. Tucker, Lambe came to the vaults day after day until I forbid him—I was too anxious for his family, to give him in custody, not for him—it is not for his family's sake that I have brought him here to-day—I sent an officer for him to his residence—on the 14th inst. I received a copy of a writ in an action commenced against me for slander—I had then threatened to give him in custody—I received it the day after I gave him in custody—my solicitor received it afterwards—my solicitor may have had notice of it the day before I gave Lambe in custody, but I did not know it, on my oath; nor had I heard a word about it from any person—I had received a letter intimating that I should be proceeded against—I had received an intimation that morning that I should be prosecuted for slander; and I gave him in custody on the evening of that day—he had no right to have private customers of his own—he had none, or he ought to have had none, while I was with him at the Exchange vaults between 1850 and 1859—he was trading indirectly, which I complained about—he had private customers of his own without my sanction—I believe you have Selwood here to day, I saw him here—the prisoner may have had customers of his own for two months, but not during the whole time—I did not know that the had sold since to James and Curtis—I know it now—I did not know that they were customers of his before I joined him—I never saw them till I traced the stolen property to their possession—I cannot tell you whose property the wine at the Docks is, but I understand it belongs to a Mr. Deacon—I do not understand that it belongs to Lambe—there was not an understanding between me and him that whatever wines he might require for his own private customers he should have at cost price from me—he called at the sale and I was quite willing that any lots which his

auctioneer might sell he should have at a trifle beyond the cost price—there was not an arrangement between us as regards his dealings with his own private customers—after my complaining to his solicitor, Mr. Tucker, he said it was very irregular and wrong, and Mr. Lambe had a sale to clear himself of any little parcels he had of one lot or another—I was quite willing to deliver any lots at a slight margin on the shipping prices; any which the auctioneer might sell at a public sale—Mr. Such was the auctioneer—I had an interview with him and told him I would part with no lots—Mr. Such is one of his bail—I arranged with Lambe that he should have a certain quantity of wine out of the stock to be sold by Mr. Such, the auctioneer; Lambe to bear all the risk, conditionally that Mr. Such saw me paid—I took the precaution to name to Mr. Such that he should see me paid, and if there was any loss consequent on the sale, I was to have nothing to do with it—in the event of its being a profitable transaction, Lambe was not to have one portion of the profits and I the other portion; there was a fixed price of it of 1s. beyond the shipping price which Lambe was to pay—my profit was the margin of 1s.—that was in December, 1858, and January, 1859—those wines were sherries, brandies, and champagnes—the wine which Mr. Lambe took from me on that occasion amounted to 135l. 11s. 2d., errors excepted—that is the amount they are invoiced at, but there are false entries—this paper is in my clerk's writing—he had wines under that arrangement to the amount of about 100l.—Mr. Such paid the money to Mr. Lambe in my presence, and Mr. Lambe handed it back to me—I complained that he did not bring enough, and he said that he would send a cheque next day by post—Mr. Such did not tell me that he did not know me in the transaction and would not know me, and that his dealings were with Mr. Lambe only—I sent my invoice to Mr. Lambe—Mr. Such did not upon that come and tell me he would have no dealings except with Mr. Lambe—he handed the money to Mr. Lambe, and as a point of etiquette I allowed it to pass—Lambe did not put it in his pocket—it was not a cheque, it was gold and notes—I complained that it was not enough and he sent me a cheque next day payable to me, which I passed through my bankers—on my oath that cheque was payable to me—it was sent to me by post, and I sent it through my bankers—I rather think Counsel have it—this is it (Produced, and payable to Mr. Lambe)—it came to me by post.

Q. Look at this envelope (produced); now on your solemn oath, I ask you whether that cheque was sent to you or to Mr. Lambe? A. My belief was that it was sent to me by post direct—I know that I got the cheque because I complained of not having enough—I must have been mistaken about its coming by post—it was not dishonoured, it was paid—the sherries and the brandies with Mr. Such were between 2d December, 1858, and 7th January, 1859—I do not know whether the sale Mr. Such had to conduct, was a successful one—I made no calculation of profit and loss upon it—it was no business of mine—I knew Mr. Such had promised to see me paid—I mean to tell you that Mr. Such promised to pay me himself; that was the first precaution I took—I was walking down the main arch at the time—if there was included in this very transaction with Mr. Such three dozen of brandy, in December, they were delivered to Mr. Such: if you will give me that invoice I will tell you—the wines and spirits were dozens of brandy and dozens of sherry—they were delivered to Mr. Such and the man fetched them and signed for them—I should not let the parcels go without the money, only the samples; the stock remained in the vaults—I have a book in which I enter the wages of my servants—on one occasion the prisoner

complained of the word salary being entered, as applied to the 4l. he was receiving; not to me, but I heard at the vaults at the time he was complaining to the accountant about it—I was not an instant there—he struck his pen through the word—the conversation was with my book-keeper, not with me nor in my presence, I simply came in at the time he was scolding him for putting it there—I did not say that I would take care that it should never occur again—I did not say such a foolish thing as that; I made no answer at all—I had no wish to degrade him, or make him less in the estimation of the other servants—he took his 4l. weekly, not always—it was not sometimes settled in an account—he and I used to take wines and spirits from the stores for our own consumption, and have it entered in a book at cost price—it was entered at the full price and afterwards merely charged at cost, and an allowance made—all articles were booked at the full price.

Q. With regard to this, which you call salary, when the money was taken by him, were not deductions occasionally made in respect of whatever might be debited to him in regard to the wines and spirits he had had for his own consumption? A. In regard to the money he has taken without my sanction at any other times, then I have deducted the 4l. salary.

COURT. Q. Then did not he pay for the wines and spirits that he had? A. No: not at all; it is still on the books as a debt.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Do you mean to say that the 4l., and the wines which he had for his own consumption, or for his private customers were not set the one against the other, and balanced occasionally. A. No, never upon any occasion; it was money misappropriated that I used to deduct—if you had paid him 2l. and he did not pay it over, I would deduct it out of the 4l., but I did not know of it until a gentleman came—it has been very frequent, but I was not aware of the extent of the robbery; I have lost 400l. worth of stock in six months—it is difficult to get gentlemen to produce their receipts, or to come forward; they call it a loss of time—the prisoner complained of the imperfect manner in which the books were kept—he was anxious to get rid of the accountants that found out a Robson and a Red-path—I made a contract with the Messrs. Deloitte and Greenwood, the eminent accountants who detected Redpath and Robson, to make me out a set of books to check irregularities—the prisoner was away for two months from 11th November to 11th January; it was not after 11th January that he was away for two months—it was not during February and March that he was absent; I swear that without any hesitation—he was not away for three months after January, 1858, not at any period of the year after January—he was away in November and December with my sanction—I knew the dangerous position he was in, and I permitted his absence, but I paid him his 4l. afterwards.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. My friend has asked you about his being away during November and December, and has suggested that you recommended him to go, that he might be away from business during the first part of it, and that his creditors might not know that he had anything to do with the business—is that true? A. It is true—it was at Mr. Tucker's suggestion—he was away in consequence of a criminal charge hanging over his head; that criminal charge was about the mortgage of some wine-warrants with a Mr. Guyer, of Newgate-street—I myself handed to Mr. Tucker 100l. to enable him to compromise that charge; I will not be certain whether that was at Mr. Tucker's suggestion; he was very friendly disposed towards him—Mr. Tucker is sitting here—this (produced) is the cheque that I handed to Mr.

Tucker for that purpose; the name of Tucker and New is at the back—it was on 11th November; I was to have had the 100l. back in a few days—this (produced) is Mr. Lambe's acknowledgment of it; he handed me back 50l. within a few days, and gave me this I.O.U. for the other 50l.; it is dated June 26th—he has never paid me that up to this hour—I heard from Mr. Tucker the nature of the charge about the dock warrants, not from Mr. Lambe—Mr. Tucker was then acting as his solicitor in this very matter.

MR. RIBTON submitted that no evidence could be given of what passed between the witness and Mr. Tucker in the prisoners absence.

MR. GIFFARD contended that, as the matter had been cross-examined to, he had a right to re-examine upon it.

The COMMON SERGEANT, if pressed, would receive it, and take a note of the objection.

Witness (continued). I forget the particulars of what Mr. Tucker told me—I know it was some serious matter—it was a criminal charge respecting warrants that should have been at the mortgagees, but were not there; I did not go into the particulars; I know there was some irregularity with regard to dock warrants—I forget exactly what it was Mr. Tucker told me; the substance of it was, that Lambe was in imminent danger, and I gave the 100l. to help him out of it—I knew what I paid the 100l. for; I knew that I placed the 100l. in Mr. Tucker's hands to keep him from the Mansion House; Mr. Tucker told me so; I was not anxious to know all the details; it was enough for me to find the money—when Mr. Lambe came back, on 11th January, he told me he had settled the matter, and gave me the I.O.U. and 50l. out of the 100l.; he handed me five 10l. notes, and gave me the I.O.U. for 50l.—I forget exactly the words he said; I knew it was settled, and I was very glad to find that he was out of such a serious difficulty—he said it was settled—when I originally took this business of Mr. Lambe, he assigned me all his licenses—these are them (produced); this is his signature—about the time that I took possession, there was an agreement in writing between us—possession was given to me, by means of a bottle, in the name of the owner, by Mr. Tucker—(MR. GIFFARD put in the transfer of the Licenses, dated November, 1857)—I heard from Lambe that Chambers had agreed to give 1080l. for the business—I ultimately agreed to give 1650l.—I received a letter on the 14th; I had not seen my solicitor or that letter until after I had given the prisoner into custody—I had consulted Mr. Humphreys, the attorney conducting this prosecution, to prosecute Mr. Lambe—I had consulted Mr. Evans, my private solicitor, on the same subject a fortnight before, and he brought me to Mr. Humphreys on the 12th February—I have mentioned some false entries; they are in Mr. Such's bill; they are in my accountant's handwriting—when I found out that the prisoner had private customers, I complained of it; that was at the beginning of December, 1858—he promised to discontinue them—I have an account with the London and Westminster bank—the cheques referred to were crossed cheques—Lambe had no banker to my knowledge—the money that Mr. Such produced was handed over to me in Lambe's presence—the draft-deed that was prepared for the purpose of carrying out my original arrangement was prepared by Messrs. Tucker and New; this is it (this was put in and read—in substance, it was an agreement that Jones, having purchased the business of Lambe, he (Lambe) should assist him in the same as manager, buyer, and assistant, upon receiving an annual salary equal to a moiety of the profits, 4l. to be paid weekly on account of the said sum, and that Lambe should not be considered or be in fact a partner in the business, or in any manner interested in the capital or profits, or be liable for any of the losses or debts)—I objected to sign this until a case had been laid before counsel, to see whether it would constitute a partnership—this was drawn by Mr. Tucker—before the Lord Mayor, Mr. Tucker was called as a witness for Mr. Lambe—it was while negotiations were going on for the execution of this deed, that I found out the defalcations I have spoken of—it was in consequence of that that the negotiations were broken off—I stated that to Mr. Tucker, and also to Messrs. Wickers and Burton.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did not Mr. Lambe, in your bearing, object to this draft, and allege, as a reason, that it described him as a servant at a salary. A. No; he did not make any objection to it at all—he did not object to the word salary; he made other objections—the 500l., he said, should be 250l. per annum; that is, that he should have a greater share; he said it was 250l. on one side, instead of 250l. on each side; he did not object because he was described as a servant at a salary—the 100l. settled the business about the warrants—it was settled on 11th November; I presumed that the 100l. settled it; I do not know, as a fact, that it was actually settled then out of that money—I heard from Mr. Lambe that it was settled; he came back about 11th January; that was not the first time I had heard that it was settled; I think I had had my 50l. before then; I won't be certain as to dates—that it was the first time I heard from Lambe that it was settled—the 26th January was the date of the I.O.U.—I received it on or about that day.

JOHN EVANS . I am a solicitor—in November, 1857, I was consulted by Mr. Jones with reference to the purchase of this business—I had an interview with Mr. Lambe, and his solicitor, Mr. Tucker, separately and together on 10th November, I had seen Mr. Tucker, and very likely Mr. Lambe previously, but I forget; but on 10th November, Lambe called alone, and he then told me that the negotiation which had been previously existing for the purchase of this business, but which had been abandoned in consequence of the sale to Mr. Chambers, had been revived in favour of Mr. Jones; that Mr. Chambers had given up his purchase—he then said that Mr. Jones was to purchase, and we had some discussion about the terms—I have no doubt that he said "purchase"—I have not a perfect recollection of the word, but the subject is so vividly impressed upon my mind, that I have no doubt about it—we then talked of the arrangements that were to be made between them, and he either told me then, or I had known previously, that those arrangements were of a special nature; and as I was apprehensive that it might involve a partnership with Mr. Lambe, I stipulated with him most emphatically that it should not involve a partnership, and he, very distinctly indeed, assented to that—I have a book here in which I entered the particulars of that interview—it is on 10th November, 1857—I have no doubt this entry was made the next day—it is under the head of 11th November (Read: "Jones, Mr.—10th. Attending Mr. Lambe yesterday, upon his informing me that his treaty with you was intended to be revived; discussing the terms with him, and especially the reason of the intended agreement with him, when he quite agreed they should not be such as to involve a partnership")—that is my entry as a charge against Mr. Jones—I afterwards saw Mr. Lambe and Mr. Tucker together—I do not know whether a discussion took place with regard to this matter again, but the matter was very much discussed.

MR. POLAND. Q. Did you receive the draft deed which has been produced, from Mr. Tucker? A. From Messrs Tucker and New, the solicitors

to Mr. Lambe—this is the letter, dated 19th, January, 1859—I was to approve of that for Mr. Jones—I took Counsel's opinion upon it—before I sent it back to Tucker and New, these deficiences had been discovered, and Mr. Jones consulted me with reference to the misconduct of the prisoner.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. I believe the opinion was that it does not amount to a partnership? A. Yes.

JAMES WILLIAM ROBINSON . I am bookkeeper in the prosecutor's service—I remember Selwood being dismissed; shortly after that I discovered in the Government permit book something about brandy, sent to a person named Austin; the prisoner was not there, but I afterwards called his attention to the entry in the trade books—he first spoke about it—he said to me, that I had not charged his private account with any brandy—I said, "What brandy?"—he said, "the brandy that went to Mr. Austin"—I said that there was no brandy in the books—I had not found a trace of the brand sent to Mr. Austin in the government permit book before this; this was about a week after the conversation—Mr. Jones and I went through the permit book, and found an entry of some brandy to Mr. Austin—I did not know all about it at that time—the conversation that I am speaking of with Lambe was previous to that; I am sure that at the time I went through the books I knew nothing about that brandy; that might be three or four days or a week before Lambe spoke to me—I believe that my going through the book with Mr. Jones, and coming upon an entry of Austin's brandy, was after I had the conversation with Lambe which I have just mentioned—I believe I told Mr. Jones that Mr. Lambe had spoken to me about it, I won't be sure—I do not remember being directed to enter it by Lambe—when I say there was no entry in the books, I mean the order book and the delivery book—I discovered that there was no entry in them—when we found the entry in the permit book, we looked in the delivery book to see if there was any entry, and there was none at all; they were all posted up; and, had it been entered, it must have come into the ledger—I said in that conversation that there was no entry in the books; I looked through them twice—when Mr. Lambe spoke to me about the matter, I believe I asked him whether he had sent any bill to Mr. Austin—the solicitor has taken my evidence down in writing—when the prisoner asked me whether I had sent any bill to Mr. Austin, I said, "No;" it was Lambe that asked me, and he said, "Don't do it"—I do not think he said anything then about Mr. Jones—he did say, "Has Mr. Jones told you to send it;" and I said, "The bill is to go"—he told me that in the event of Mr. Jones telling me to send the bill, that I was not to do it—I gave my evidence to this gentleman (Mr. Humphreys) I remember making up the accounts at Christmas—Selwood was dismissed before Lambe was taken in custody, perhaps three weeks before; I should think it was about the middle of January—this is Mr. Lambe's writing (Looking at some printed bill-heads, filed up in writing, headed, "Bought of John Jones"; and signed, "Received A. B. Lambe")

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Did the government permit book contain an entry of that brandy to Austin? A. Yes; that is a book to which Mr. Jones has access; it was kept on the desk, and Mr. Austin's name was in it; he could at any time see that there was brandy entered there to Austin—the prisoner made entries in the order book, and so did Selwood—I was in the habit of making out for Mr. Lambe his own account of spirits and wine that he had for his own private consumption only—it was on the occasion when I furnished him with one of these accounts of wine for his private use or disposal, that he said, "You have not charged me with the

brandy for Mr. Austin"—I had before that known nothing of Mr. Austin—I think it was after Lambe asked me this that I and Mr. Jones looked over the government permit book and found the entry; that brandy to Mr. Austin was not charged afterwards in a private account to Mr. Lambe—I did not hear Mr. Lambe remonstrate about this being in the delivery cash-book until after Selwood left; he said it was impossible to avoid mistakes without a daily cash-book, but I suggested it first; that was after Selwood's dismissal—he asked me whether I had sent an account to Mr. Austin, and told me not to do it—he did not say that it was a private transaction between himself and Mr. Austin; he gave no reason—he did not tell me that he had sent an account—there were printed receipts to be signed, "For Mr. Jones"—Lambe did not always refuse to sign them, that I am aware of—here is a dozen of pale sherry, 1l. 12s., 6d., signed for by Mr. Lambe, which shows that he received the money—any other clerk would not have signed his name there; he would have signed it on a printed receipt—I do not know Mr. Such; I do not remember seeing him (Looking at him)—I am the person to whom the mistake occurred about the 4l. being entered to him as salary—Mr. Jones never spoke to him about it—Mr. Lambe struck out the word "Salary," and I believe that was the only time it was entered—Mr. Jones walked in and heard part of it—I never heard Mr. Lambe complain that Mr. Jones mixed up his own private banking accounts with the accounts of the business.

COURT. Q. You said that on one occasion Lambe asked you whether you had sent any bill to Mr. Austin; that you said, "No;" and he said, "Don't do it." A. Yes; I have also said that he said, "You have not charged me with the brandy to Mr. Austin"—both these conversations did not occur at the same time; the one about Mr. Austin's brandy occurred first—it was after he had had the private account, and complained that I had not charged him, that he said, "Have you sent any bill to Mr. Austin?"

MR. RIBTON. Q. Were you in the habit of making out to Mr. Lambe his own private account? A. Yes, for wine for his own consumption; he was not charged in that with wine to a private customer—this paper (produced) is in my writing; I do not see anything here that went to his private house—I do not know of any wine or spirits for a private customer that have been charged to his account—I cannot say whether he has been charged with empty hogsheads—whatever I find in the order book I carry through the ledger—by charged, I mean an entry made against his name—the wine and spirits which he had for his own consumption were entered in the order book, in the delivery book, like other goods, and in the ledger—these goods would be entered in the same book as all other goods.

MR. SLEIGH inquired whether THE COURT considered there was any case to go to the Jury; whether there existed the relationship of master and servant; and also whether the prisoner was guilty of any felonious intent. THE COURT considered that there was evidence of his being a servant; and that the question was whether the goods were sent away with a felonious intent.

COURT to JOHN JONE. Q. You sold a quantity of wine through Mr. Such; were the samples as they went out, entered in the order and delivery books? A. In the order book; I have not searched to see if they are in the delivery book; bat what I sent out in bulk appears in both books, and they were signed by Mr. Such's man; Mr. Such was never my solicitor till I gave him the book debts to collect, that is all; there was 517l. in book debts which he had to collect, but he was never my private solicitor—I have no doubt I instructed him several times during 1858, in reference to this matter.

THE JURY, in reply to a question by the Common Serjeant, expressed their opinion that there was no partnership between the prosecutor and prisoner. THE COURT then directed them to say by their Verdict whether the relationship was such that the prisoner might have thought he was entitled to do what he had done, though irregularly; or whether he did it with the intention of depriving Mr. Jones of the goods, and never accounting for them.


NEW COURT.—Friday, May 13th, 1859.


Before Mr. Recorder and the Fifth Jury.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-509
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

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509. WILLIAM VALE (66), and ALFRED GATENBY (65), were indicted for feloniously forging and uttering a receipt for 8l. with intent to defraud.

MR. METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.

EDWARD YARRINGTON . I am in the service of William Blakie and others, No. 201, Tottenham-court-road—they lend money on notes of the borrowers, having one or two sureties—we get the address of the sureties and make inquiries where the persons live—on the 14th April I received this proposal from a clerk—it is in the name of Vale, No. 11, South-street—the surety is George Waid, 14, Albert-street, opposite Albert-terrace, St. George's-road, Southwark—I went to No. 14, Albert-street; I saw the prisoner Vale standing at the door, I asked for the name of Ward—he said, "No, it is Waid"—I said, "Is Mr. Waid at home?"—he said, "No, here are his daughters"—and he went away—I made the necessary inquiries inside—I went to No. 11, South-street, and the house was shut up—on 18th April I received a letter signed William Vale; and in consequence of that I went to No. 11, South-street; I saw Vale there—I told him I had called respecting the application for a loan—I asked what he was; he said he was a tailor, and worked for Jones, in Regent-street, and he said he had lived there ten months—I asked for his receipts, and he produced three receipts for the three quarters rent of the house, No. 11, South-street, West-square, they were signed in the name of John Lee; I think the amount was 7l. 10s. a quarter—I told him to come with his surety to the office, and bring his three receipts—both the prisoners came together—I asked them to sign their names, and they both, in my presence, wrote their names and addresses, and signed this promissory note—"Two months after date we jointly promise to pay to William Blakie, or order, five pounds; for value received, William Vale, and Anthony Gatenby, 21st April, 1859."—Gatenby also gave this receipt—" Received of William Waid, 8l. for one quarter's rent of house situated, No. 132, Princess-road, Kensington, Robert Cockford."—I told them they were attempting to defraud the company, for they well knew they had neither of them been in their houses more than a month—they said it was their first offence, they did not intend to defraud.

Cross-examined by Mr. POLAND. Q. Did Vale say he did not intend to defraud? A. Yes; and the other man said much about the same—when I went to one house, it was shut up—it was about a quarter before 5 o'clock—it is a private house—I went again about ten minutes past 10 o'clock at night—it was on Saturday, 16th April—I did not see Vale there—I saw him on Thursday, 21st, at No. 11, South-street—I went in, and had this conversation with him inside the house—after I had made inquiries, I got the promissory

note—I did not give the money; certainly not—the house 11, South-street, is not a small place—I think it has been originally one large house, and now it is two.

Cross-examined by MR. McDONALD. Q. When was your first inquiry? A. On 21st April—the application to us was on 14th April—after we make inquiries, if we find they are satisfactory, we lend the money—if they are not, we do not—in this case, the inquiries were not at all satisfactory—I allowed Gatenby to sign this document, because I had ascertained that they had come for the purpose of fraud—I let them go on as far as they would—Gatenby and vale were both together in our office when the document was signed—Gatenby was not asked by Vale, in my presence, to sign the name of Waid—I did not hear it; I don't believe it was said; I should have heard it if it had—I asked Gatenby to sign it—I don't believe Yale did, unless he did it by motion—I did not hear him speak.

WILLIAM BRUOE . I live at 4, Belmont-terrace—the house 14, Albert-street, belongs to my niece—I manage it for her. On 15th February, I received this letter—in consequence of this, I called at 134, Prince's-road—I saw the prisoner Vale—I only know him by the name of Waid—he told me his name was Waid—he said he had written to me to say that he had seen a house I had to let, and he approved of it—this is the letter (read): "February 28. Mr. Waid's compliments to Mr. Bruce, and has seen a house of his that will suit him, and therefore forwards his address, 134, prince's-road, Kennington-cross. "I asked him for a reference, and he gave me this on the back of this paper," Burrett, Lambeth-road"—I asked Vale what he was—I thought he was a tailor—I saw pattern-cards on the table—I asked him if he was a tailor—he said he was a retired lighterman—if he had said he was a tailor, I should have let him the house—I let it him at 32l. a year, and he took possession of it just before 24th March—I have not received any money from him—there is no rent due—I know nothing about this receipt for 8l.—Vale signed this agreement—he signed it first in the name of Wait—I said, "You told me your name was Waid," and he altered it to Waid.

Cross-examined by MR. POLAND. Q. Did he tell you he had been a tailor? A. No; I said, "You are a tailor?" and he said, "No, I am a retired lighterman"—there was a person in the house who was a clergyman, and he was to leave.

WILLIAM JEFFRIES . I live at 7, York-terrace, Lambeth—I am a retired tradesman—the house 134, Prince's-road, belongs to me—I let it to the prisoner Yale in the name of Wood—he took possession of it at Christmas last—the rent was 28l. a year—he paid me half-a-sovereign deposit—about ten days after Lady day, the key of the house was thrown down my area—my servant found it there.

HENRY HEATH . I live at 392, Oxford-street, and am a hatter—11, South-street, West-square, belongs to me—I let it to the prisoner Vale in the name of William Waid, on 9th March—he said he was a retired lighterman, living on his property—he referred me to 134, Prince's-road, and said he had been living there nearly two years, and paying 24l. a year rent—my house was 26l. a year—I never gave him any receipt.

JOSEPH LAMBERT . I took the two prisoners in custody—they were together at the Loan Office, in Tottenham-court-road—I told them the charge—they both said they hoped I should not lock them up—on the way to the station, I asked Gatenby where he lived, and he said at 14, Albert-street, Lambeth—I asked him what his name was—he said, "Do you mean my right name?"—I said, "Yes"—he said, "I shall tell the truth; my right

name is Gatenby"—I asked if 14, Albert-street, was his right address—he said, "No; my right address is in Gray's-inn-road, Gray's-inn-lane"—after they were taken to the station, they were searched in my presence, and on Gatenby were found some documents and several letters addressed to him—I afterwards went to 14, Albert-street, and I found there one paper, which was torn up by a female in the house, and also a number of burnt papers—I was there half-an hour before, and could not get in).

Cross-examined by MR. MCDONALD. Q. When you took Gatenby, did he say, "I have been dragged into this matter"? A. He did; and he said, "It is my first offence; I meant no harm by it at all."

RICHARD CARROLL . I keep a Loan Office in Holborn—I knew Vale by the name of William Woods, 134, Prince's-road, Kennington-cross—he was surety for a person on 15th March—he signed his name William Woods.

DENNIS ROPER . I live in Oakley-street, Lambeth, and keep a loan office. I know Vale by the name of William Garratt—he was surety for a person on 11th December—he was living at No. 5, Manor-terrace, Royal-road, Kennington.

Gatenby received a good character.

VALE— GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Month.

GATENBY— GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

There was another Indictment against Vale.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-510
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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510. MARGARET STOKES (27) , Stealing 10l. in money of Elizabeth Hodkiss.

MR. LANGFORD conducted the prosecution.

RICHARD ADYE BAILEY . I am a clerk of the Bank of England. I produce this 10l. note—it was paid into the bank on 19th April.

JOSEPH CYPLES . I live at No. 18, Parry-place, Plumstead. On 8th April my niece, Mrs. Hodkiss, went over the water—before she went I gave her five 10l. bank notes and some sovereigns—these are the bank notes; they run from Nos. 6133 to 6137, but No. 6136 is missing—she gave me these notes when she came back—I did not examine them then, but I did on the 24th of April, and 6136 was missing.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. She gave you the purse containing the notes? A. Yes; the order to receive the money was sent to me, and I went with my niece to the bank to get the notes—it was money paid at her husband's death—I think it was paid about 8th March—I drew it, and my niece left it in my hands—she had been staying with me at Plumstead backwards and forwards about three weeks—she was stopping at Blackwall with the prisoner before she went to the bank—she was staying with the prisoner for six days, and then she came to find me out, and I went with her to the bank—her husband kept a public-house at Sheffield—he died on 15th December—I don't know anything about her leaving him before he died—she was at my house for a fortnight together, after she came from Newcastle—she told me she came from there in consequence of the prisoner sending for her—the prisoner found her husband was dead, and invited her to come up—she wrote about two letters—I don't know that she made inquiries about her husband's death—while my niece was at my house she did not drink anything of any consequence; I have seen her drink spirits, but nothing to injure her—I have seen her drink rum and gin—not a glass at a time—half a glass—half a quartern would make three of the lives glasses she took—I have nothing to do with what my wife drinks; she with me certainly—I did not look in the purse till Sunday the 24th;

I then found one note was missing—I did not find fault with my niece for having spent the 10l. note; I only asked her what had become of it—I gave it her knowing she was going to Blackwall—when she came back she gave me all, as I supposed.

COURT. Q. Have you ever seen Mrs. Hodkiss the worse for liquor? A. Never in my life—I have known her ever since she was a baby.

WILLIAM GILPIN . I am a linen-draper in Westbourne-grove, Bayswater—on 12th April I received this bank note from the prisoner—she bought some Coburg dresses and other things, which came to about 1l. 3s.—I gave her change for the note—she gave the name, Margaret Stokes, 8, Leinster-square.

COURT. Q. Did you know the prisoner previously? A. No—I had seen her aunt, who I have heard is a housemaid living at No. 8, Leinster-square.

ELIZABETH HODKISS . I live in Parry-place, Plumstead, and am a widow—on 8th April I went to the prisoner's house, in a street in Blackwall—I took with me five 10l. bank notes—my uncle had given them to me—I stopped with the prisoner on the night of the 8th and the 9th, and I returned home on the 10th—when I came back I gave my uncle the purse—while I was at the prisoner's house I did not part with any of the 10l. notes—I did not look at them—I did not authorise anybody to take one—I missed the note, No. 6136, on the 24th—the prisoner was at my uncle's—I asked her if she knew anything about it—she said nothing at all—she had written for me several times, and I gave her 2l. when I drew my money, and I lent her 3l. 6s.—the day after I drew my money I left, 1l. for a shawl, and told her to go and get it.

Cross-examined. Q. You formerly lived at Sheffield with your husband, and kept a public-house? A. Yes—I can't say when we left the public-house—it is four or five years ago—my husband and I left together—he sold his business—I did not leave him—he went to Melbourne—I went with him to Liverpool, and from there I went to the Staffordshire potteries—I went from there with my two children to Newcastle-on-Tyne—I was working at Newcastle when the prisoner's letter came down—she sent to try to find me out, to tell me that my husband had died on board the Swiftsure, and if I would come up I could claim the money due—I did not ask her to make inquiries for me—I sent her word that I would come—she was very kind to me—I came up with very little money—I had to get some before I could come—I was rather in straits before I came to town—I lodged with the prisoner—I gave her something to eat and drink—she was very kind to me—she supplied me with mourning, and I purchased the articles when I got the money—she lent me 1s. 6d.—I went for some little time to Plumstead, and then I came back, and said I felt rather uncomfortable there, and I would pay her for anything I wanted—I stayed with her for a day or so; and I always made it my home, as she was so kind—while I was there I went to the bank, and got my money, with my uncle, and then I went back with him to Plumstead, and left the money in his hand—I brought the money from home with me—I and Mrs. Stokes were going to put it in the bank, but I thought I would not do so—I kept my purse under my arm when I had it with me—this is the purse—the purse was in a bag—I put the bag under my head when I went to bed—I think the purse was in the bag when I put it under my head—I am not quite sure—I sometimes have some rum—I had not any there—I told Mrs. Stokes to take a pot of beer home, but we did not finish it—we left it—I

had some rum in a public-house in Blackwall, and we had a quartern of gin the same day—that was not the first time I had seen Mrs. Stokes after I got the money from the bank—I had seen her several times—I could not say when I got the money from the bank.

Q. Did you not on that very night give her that 10l. note, telling her it was partly for board and lodging, and partly because she had been so kind to you? A. No—my uncle did not find fault with me for spending the note or losing it—on the 24th April I and Mrs. Stokes went down to Plumstead, and after dinner my uncle called me into the parlour and said, "Do you know that one of the notes is gone?"—I was struck with amazement—he said, "I thought you had done something with it"—I said, "No, I have not"—I was with the prisoner on the 8th and 9th of April, and on the 10th I returned home—I went to her again, as I had business—I did not take the money with me—I left it with my uncle—I went to her on Saturday, the 23d April, and on the Sunday, the 24th, I went down with her to Plumstead—I took her down, and thought she would stop a week or a fortnight, because she had been very kind to me—it was on the 24th I missed the note, and she remained there till she was given in custody on Monday night, the 25th.

MR. LANGFORD. Q. After you received your money, did you pay her anything? A. Yes, two sovereigns; and I lent her 3l. 6s.—I took the notes intending to put them in the bank, and when I got to Blackwall I altered my mind.

COURT. Q. When this was found out on the 24th you told the prisoner, what did she say? A. She said nothing, she seemed confused—she still stopped there and slept with me—I said, "Mrs. Stokes, I wonder who could have taken it?"—she said nothing, but said she would go back to Sheffield—her mother lives there.

JOHN NEWELL (Policeman, R 59). On Sunday, 24th April, I went to Mr. Cyple's house, and Mrs. Hodkiss told me she had lost a 10l. note, and, from information, I went to Bayswater—I went back to Mr. Cyple's, and found Mrs. Stokes there—I told her I was a police-officer, and she was charged with stealing a 10l. Bank of England note belonging to Mrs. Hodkiss—she said, "I did not steal it; Mrs. Hodkiss gave it me, and I changed it at a draper's shop at Bayswater"—I took her to the station.

The prisoner received a very good character.


9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-511
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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511. GEORGE BEST (34) , Stealing 8l. 12s. 6d. of James Finch, from his person.

MR. POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES FINCH . I am a labourer—I worked for Mr. Hedley, at Arlington—on 6th April I was in his cart, and I went to the Hoop and Grapes, in Westminster about 3 o'clock—while I was there, I took out my canvas bag—I had sold Mr. Kelly a truss of hay—when I left the house I had 8l. 12s. 6d. in the bag—I left at 4 o'clock—the prisoner was in the house, and he left when I did—he asked me to give him a ride to Hammersmith, which was in my way to Uxbridge—I consented to that, and he got in my cart—after I had gone a little way, I asked him to drive, for I had been up three or four nights running, and I was very tired—I went to sleep—when I awoke I was at Kensington—I found the cart was standing still, and the prisoner was gone—I felt for my bag, and that was gone, and the money in it—the bag was found in the street.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. It was a little sample bag? A. Yes

—I did not take up another man besides the prisoner—I can't tell what was done when I was asleep—I don't know when the prisoner left—my cart was at Kensington—there were reins to the horse—I knew the prisoner before quite well.

JOHN WINNEY . I am potman at the Hoop and Grapes—I remember, on 6th April, seeing the prosecutor there with his canvas bag; and the prisoner was there—after that I went out, and I met the prisoner on the road about a quarter-past 4 o'clock—we stopt the cart, and the prisoner awoke the prosecutor up—this was at Pimlico—the prisoner was driving, and the prosecutor was asleep—I was in my cart—we all went in a house, and had a pot of beer—the prosecutor paid for it, and he took out his bag and gave the landlord 3l. worth of silver for gold, and he put the gold into his bag—I they both got into the cart, and drove away, and I went home to the Hoop and Grapes—the prisoner came back to that house between 10 and 11 o'clock—he had then a fresh suit of clothes on altogether; a better suit than he had on before.

Cross-examined. Q. Were there other persons in the public-house that you went into? A. No; no one but ourselves—many people may have better things on in the evening than they have in the morning.

JAMES FINCH (re-examined). I got out of the cart at Pimlico, and went into a house, and had some drink—I paid for a pot of fourpenny ale—I am quite sure I put my bag in my pocket again—I had been in three public-houses in the day—I had five pots of beer altogether; not to myself; five of us drank it—I was sober.

COURT to JOHN WINNEY. Q. You saw the prosecutor when he got in the cart again; was he sober? A. Yes, quite sober; he could not have got up into the cart again if he were not.

REBECCA KINNOTT . I live at the Hoop and Grapes—I remember Wednesday, 6th April—I saw Finch and the prisoner there, and I heard them leave—the prisoner came back to my house about a quarter before 12 o'clock that night—he had on a suit of clothes different to what he had in the morning, and he paid me 4d. that he owed me, which he took out of a small canvas bag—I said to him, "You look like a gentleman; you have had some good luck—he said, "Yes; I am not always a poor man"—the purse was a corn-dealer's bag—there seemed something weighty in it.

WILLIAM BEECHEY (Police-sergeant, T 29). I received the prisoner in custody—I told him he was charged with robbing the man of 8l. 12s. 6d.—he made no answer—I searched him, and found 1l. 2s. 6d. on him.

GUILTY .**— Confined Fifteen Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-512
VerdictNot Guilty > non compos mentis
SentenceImprisonment > insanity

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512. MICHAEL LEBINE (26) , Feloniously stabbing William Millmore, on the high seas, with intent to kill and murder him. Second Count, to do him some grievous bodily harm.

MR. ROBINSON conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM MILLMORE . I am a seaman belonging to the ship "Anglesea"—the prisoner was in the same ship—he shipped at Melbourne—there were one or two foreigners on board—we were coming round Cape Horn—on 17th January, I was shifting myself between 8 and 9 o'clock, and Ellick was making a bed—I did not see the prisoner, but I heard a sound of a blow behind me, and heard Ellick cry, "O God"—I turned round and saw the prisoner close to me, with a maul over my head—I put up my hand to save myself—the maul fell on my head, and stunned me, and then he drew a knife, and stabbed me in several places about the head and neck, and my

ear was divided—I lost a great deal of blood, and have been under the doctor's hands ever since—the prisoner was taken and put in confinement—I had not given him any provocation—I know nothing of any conspiracy against him—there were thirty men and boys on board—I had not noticed anything peculiar in the prisoner's manner before this.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. You never heard the cook say he would murder him. A. No; and I never said so—I do not know that he had been sailing in the tropics a good deal—I never heard that he had been affected by the sun.

THOMAS CHAMBERS . I am a surgeon—I examined the prosecutor on board—I found he had seven founds, and the ear was divided—one wound in the neck was, I suppose, four inches deep—they were inflicted with this knife—there is blood on it now—I continued to attend the prosecutor—the ship arrived on 16th March—the prosecutor is not recovered yet, and will not for many months—I knew the prisoner as a seaman on board—for a week or ten days before this he had been to the captain and to myself, saying that the crew were about to murder him, and to beat him; and we made particular inquiries into it, and had the men called to inquire as to the truth of the statement, and they all told me there was not the slightest foundation for it—I believe that he was certainly mistaken—we did not think it necessary to confine him—he came to the captain to be engaged, and I believed that he was not correct, and would be of very little use to us—I recommended the captain to bring him home as a passenger—I saw him afterwards—he still perseveres in that delusion—there is nothing else about the man—in every respect he seems perfectly healthy—for the first fourteen or twenty days he was very good.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you think he was in a responsible state at the time of his committing this act? A. I believe he was under a delusion, and I believe it exists to the present time.

MR. ROBINSON. Q. You do not consider that he knew right from wrong? A. No—I believe he was under a delusion, and committed the act while under that delusion.

JOHN ROWLAND GIBSON . I am the surgeon of this gaol—the prisoner was brought here on 19th March—he was under my care the first fortnight—I have seen him daily since, and have talked to him—he still labours under the delusion that there is a conspiracy against him, but, except that, I saw nothing particular about him.

DANIEL TAYLOR (Thames Policeman, 23). On the arrival of the vessel, on 16th March, I saw the prisoner; he was in irons in the cabin, and calling out at the top of his voice, "Murder"—I took him in custody.

Cross-examined. Q. Did he not say, "They are going to murder me—they are going to murder me—they are going to put me in prison?" A. Yes; he said, "They are going to put me in prison, and going to kill me."

LUKE HANKARI . I knew the prisoner at Melbourne; he was working with me—I never found anything the matter with him, only on the change of the moon ho would remain for two or three, or five or six hours, and never speak to any body—he would lie down on the bed—that was just at the change of the moon; sometimes in the full of the moon, sometimes in the first quarter—it was plain to me that his mind was affected by the change of the moon four times in a month—he never did any harm to anybody—that conduct would continue for eight or ten hours and then he was all right again.

NOT GUILTY; being insane . To be detained until Her Majesty's pleasure be known.

THIRD COURT.—Friday, May 13th, 1859.



Before Mr. Common Serjeant, and a half foreign Jury.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-513
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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513. HENRY HUMBURG (33) , Feloniously wounding Carl Jacob Humburg, with intent to do him some grievous bodily harm.

MR. ABRAM conducted the Prosecution.

CARL JACOB HUMBURG (Through an interpreter). I am an upholsterer—the prisoner is my brother—on 11th April I wrote a letter for him to come to me—he came at half-past 8 in the evening—I heard a knock; went down stairs, and said, "Henry, here you are, you bad fellow; how do you dare to ill-treat your sister so dreadfully; you are a bad fellow"—I saw a poker in his hand; he had it behind him—he took it from behind him and struck me on the forehead with it—it was a large wound, and pained me very much—it bled very much, and I went to a doctor on the Friday following—this occurred on Monday—I had attended to it myself in the meantime—I had never seen the poker before.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. When you first spoke to your brother did you see the poker in his hand? A. No—I had spoken to him five or six minutes before I was hit—I swear I did not bring the poker out to meet him, or any other instrument—I do not know Fritz Eizenzer or Jones Kottenbyer, and cannot say whether they were there or not—this happened just outside the street door—I had had a quarrel with my brother four weeks previously, and we had not spoken to each other since—I took the part of my sister.

MR. ABRAM. Q. Is this the poker? A. Yes—(The handle of a thin poker about a foot long).

HENRY KNESTER . I am a shoemaker, of 5 Market-street, Newport Market—on 11th April, at half-past 8 o'clock, I saw the prisoner and his brother talking together in Marshall-street as I was looking out at the window—I saw the prisoner holding a small piece of iron behind him—I cannot say whether this is it—I saw him strike his brother a severe blow with it on the forehead outside the door—I had seen this piece of iron in the prisoner's room when I was working for him about four weeks before.

Crow-examined. Q. Are you sure this is the piece of iron? A. Quite certain—the prisoner is a shoe-maker—this was used to poke the fire—the prisoner lives in Back Church-lane, Golden-square, and his brother five miles away in Whitechapel—I did not hear the language—I cannot say whether there was any struggle as it was at the instant I got to the window that I saw the blow—I have known the prisoner since the beginning of September—he appeared a quiet inoffensive man, but he is a little hasty tempered—I was working formerly for the prisoner, but not at that time—I was at the prosecutor's house because I frequently go to see him—I am very friendly with him.

MR. ABRAM. Q. How long have you known him? A. All the time he has been in England, which is eight weeks.

MICHAEL ALDWORTH . I am a saddle-tree maker of Berwick-street—on 11th April, at half-past 8 o'clock I was passing down Marshall-street—I stood for a few moments looking down the street, and heard a few angry words—I was ten or twelve yards off and saw the prisoner strike the blow

person took him round the arms and got the poker from him—I did not see them talking before the blow was struck—there was nobody at the door when I passed—I saw no blow struck by the prosecutor—this is the instrument—the prisoner seemed to take it from behind him, and he struck his brother on the right side of the forehead.

Cross-examined. Q. Whether a blow was struck before that you cannot tell? A. No—it was a deliberate blow—the prosecutor had no hat on.

JOHN CURME (Policeman, c 719). I took the prisoner, and received this piece of iron from the prosecutor's wife—the prosecutor was bleeding very much.

JOHN GUY . I am a surgeon, of 13, Golden-square—the prosecutor came to me on Friday, the 15th, with a large lacerated wound on his head—the flesh seemed to have been torn up; it was an inch and a half deep, and down to the bone—this piece of iron would be likely to produce it—it was a very severe wound, but was partly healed—a chemist had put some plaister on it—if it had penetrated the skull it would have been dangerous, because the instrument was used, so, as a dagger; with the pointed part, so that it ploughed up the scalp and slid along the bone—if it had gone into the eye it might have been fatal.

GUILTY of unlawfully wounding—Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor.

Confined Two Months.

Eighth Jury.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-514
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude

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514. STANLEY CHARLES SELWAY (15), SAMUEL WILLIAM SELWAY (16), and JAMES WYNNE (17) , Robbery on Charles Dear, and stealing from his person one box, value 2s., and 1l. 5s. 3d., in money; and striking and beating him.

MR. ROBINSON conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES DEAR . I am a picture-frame dealer carrying on business in Essex-street—the prisoner Stanley Selway had been in my service as errand-boy for three weeks, and was under notice to quit the following Saturday—on Tuesday, 19th April, about half-past 9 o'clock, Mrs. Dear had gone out—I have been paralyzed for three years, and cannot move without assistance—my servant had placed me in the shop near the counter—Stanley was in the shop gazing out of the window, and to occupy him I gave him some bank board to cut—he would not do it the way I wanted, and I told him that if he did not, he would cut his fingers, or break the boards—at that time I heard a whistle, and Stanley turned round to the window and laughed—it was a sort of signal which boys give to each other—Stanley broke the board in half—I told him to get the portfolio—I then told him to go in and poke the fire, as I must go and lie down—he came back and said that there was a good fire—while I was looking over the engravings, I saw William Selway who I knew by sight, pass the window; and immediately after that I heard another whistle, and Stanley turned round to the window and laughed as usual—I had to call his attention to the prints, as he was putting them in cross ways—he then intimated that he was going over to the urinal—he went out and stayed about seven minutes—about ten minutes after he went out I heard a third whistle—I remained in the shop till he came back—I the servant Ann Tanner came to see about the fire, and I directed her to take me into the parlour and lay me down—she gave me my medicine and left me sitting on the end of the sofa—I did not lie down—while I was sitting on the sofa I beard somebody coming into the shop, but could not

see them; and to my surprise, the two boys, Stanley and Wynne, stood at the end of the sofa, without any invitation to come in—I was rather taken back at the sight of Wynne, bat made no remark—I did not wish to wound his feelings, but did not like his appearance—he was pale and cadaverous, and not respectably attired—Stanley said, "Here is a boy come after the place."—I asked Wynne what he had been doing—he said that he had been in the book trade—I told him that that would be no benefit to me if he did not understand engravings, and asked him how long he had left his situation—I directed Stanley to go from me twice, as I did not wish him to hear our conversation—Wynne made one step towards me as if to listen to what I was saying, and at that moment Stanley passed behind him, forced open the cupboard, took the cash-box, and turned round—at that moment I stooped forward and saw Wynne's hand with something black in it—I cannot say whether it was this (a short crowbar); and I received a blow on the head, and cried, "Murder!"—a second blow was given, but his hand and wrist only struck me, and I heard something fall out of the back of his hand—I shouted "Murder!" again, and he put his hand across my mouth—the servant girl opened the door, and I found myself about six yards from the sofa, lying on the floor of the shop—this is the cash-box (produced)—I saw the money in it counted afterwards, and there was 1l. 5s.—it was nearly 12 o'clock when the blow was struck.

Cross-examined by MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Was Stanley's back turned to you when Wynne struck you? A. No—he had gone to the cupboard, so that he did not see Wynne strike me.

ANN TANNER . I am in Mr. Dear's service. On the morning of 15th April I gave him his medicine, assisted him on to the sofa, and left the room—Stanley was at that time in the shop—some little time afterwards I heard my master cry, "Murder!"—I immediately ran down, opened the parlour door, and saw Wynne with his hand over my master's mouth, trying to stop him from calling "Murder!"—I ran into the street, and called "Police!"—I did not see what became of Wynne—(I saw nothing of Stanley when I came down)—I afterwards found my master lying on the shop floor, bleeding from his head—shortly after that, both the Selways were brought back to the shop—I found this crowbar behind the chair where my master was sitting.

Cross-examined. Q. Was Stanley brought back first and Samuel afterwards? A. Stanley was brought in by a policeman, and his brother followed and came in by himself.

MR. ROBINSON Q. Are you quite sure he came in by himself? A. Yes—he did not go out again.

EDWARD DIGBY . I am a surgeon, of 205, Fleet-street—I saw the prosecutor about twelve o'clock in the day—he had a jagged wound on the head, with a good deal of swelling round it—he had blood all over his face and head—he was supported in a chair by several people, and carried into the parlour where I dressed his wound—it was a serious wound; such as might be inflicted By this instrument—there were also bruises from the hand on his face and nose—supposing the chisel to have slipped from the hand, and the hand to have caused the bruises, it must have been a very severe blow indeed.

JAMES SKIDMORE . I am a bookbinder, of 19, Wych-street. On 19th April, about 12 o'clock, I was looking in at Mr. Dear's window, and saw the maidservant at the door, calling "Murder!" and "Stop thief!"—I saw Stanley Selway running across towards Wych-street—I ran after him, and

caught him opposite Holywell-street—his coat was buttoned over a cash-box—William Selway came up to him, and said, "Halloa, Stan.! what is the matter?"—Stanley said, "Go away"—he was close by his side—I did not notice what William did, for I had a great crowd round me, and took Stanley back to Mr. Dear's—he threw the box on the counter.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know Mr. Berni's, the hatter, at the corner of Essex-street? A. I know there is a shop of that name—I now know that Samuel William Selway was in his employment up to the moment of his coming up to me.

GEORGE COLLAR . I am an ironmonger, of Wych-street—I saw Stanley running, and Skidmore pursuing him—I went to see what was the matter, and after he was secured, I saw Samuel attempting to take something from under Stanley's coat—I seized him by the collar, and threw him out of the way—he recovered himself, came up to me in a sparring position, and said, "I will punch your b—y nose; what have you to do with it?"—I said, "If there is a policeman handy, you will find what I have to do with it; what have you to do with it?" he said, "My brother" or something to that effect, and then I let him go—I followed the crowd to the prosecutor's house—there was a great number of people in the lobby or entrance to the shop; it was full of boys—I said, "Get away, boys; you have no business here"—Samuel was then forcing his way through the crowd—I seized him by the collar, and said, "Here, if you are his brother, you know something about it"—I tapped at the door, they opened it, and I shoved him in.

Cross-examined. Q. From his excited manner, did you think he knew something about it? A. Yes; my opinion from his outward appearance was that he knew of what had been going on—he appeared to be attempting to take what had been stolen: not getting to his brother, but stooping with his hands ready to grasp—there were perhaps 100 people round him—he was going back, and his brother was going forward—my motive for judging that he had an ill motive in getting what had been stolen, is created by hearing that a boy had gone into the shop to ask for a situation, that another boy who was in the service of the prosecutor had stolen the cashbox, and he was his brother—I did not know that up to that moment that he was in Mr. Berni's service.

MR. ROBINSON. Q. Was he endeavouring to get near his brother? A. No; he was close enough to take it if he could, and was then going back.

MARY ANN HOMAN . I am the wife of John Homan, of 2, Salisbury-place, Temple-bar—Wynne lodged with us—he said, "If my friend calls, tell him to go he knows where"—Samuel Selway did call (he had called four or five times during the five weeks wynne lodged with me)—he said, "Is Jim in?"—I said, "No; you know where to go to," or "You go you know where"—I cannot swear to this chisel (The crowbar), but I saw one like it in Wynne's possession, and he took it out with him that morning.

Cross-examined. Q. Was Samuel Selway's calling an unusual thing? A. No; he has called four or five times—I never saw any other friend call on Wynne.

COURT to JAMES SKIDMORE. Q. Did you see Stanley leave the house? A. No; but I saw him running across the road from the door towards the churchyard—I saw nothing of Samuel till after I had stopped Stanley at the west end of the Church, opposite Holywell-street—he had the cash-box under his coat, and I saw Samuel come up close to him.

COURT to GEORGE COLLAR. Q. Did you see Samuel before you saw him

close to his brother, and was that at the point that Mr. Skidmore has mentioned? A. No; it was about opposite the centre-west entrance of the church, he having stopped him opposite Holywell-street.

ROBERT MCKENZIE (Police Inspector, F). On Wednesday morning, 20th April, I was at the House of Detention, Clerkenwell—I had been on the look out for Wynn, and on knocking at the gate the porter said, in Wynn's presence, "I think this is the youth you are looking after"—the two Selways were confined there, and I had gone there to look after Wynn, having got some information—I asked Wynn his name; he said, "James Wynn"—the porter told me in his presence that he had come there to see the two Selways—I told him that he was charged with committing a robbery at the house of Mr. Dear, Essex-street, Strand—he said, "Yes; all right"—I sent for a cab, and, with Sergeant King, took him to Essex-street—going through Hatton-garden he said, "What did you take Sam for?"—I said, "For being concerned in this robbery"—he said, "He was not present at the time, although he gave some advice about it"—I took him to Essex-street, and Mr. Dear made the same statement that he has this morning—the servant said, "That is him"—Wynn said, "I am sure you did not see me"—he then said that he only struck Mr. Dear one blow.

Cross-examined. Q. Was that all the conversation you had? A. Yes, relative to this matter—from the time we got into the cab till we got to Hatton-garden he had not spoken—I did not tell him he had better not speak; that was not my business—he said, "Sam was not there at the time the robbery was committed"—I am quite sure he said, "Although he gave some advice about it"

WILLIAM KING (Policeman, H 6). I saw Wynn at the House of Detention shortly before McKenzie came—I charged him with robbery with violence—he said, "It is all right; I struck the old man once"—I said, "You struck him more than once; there are marks on his face"—he said, "That was caused by my placing my hand on his face to prevent his calling out; I did not intend to hurt him, only to stun him, and when I struck him the chisel flew out of my hand"—I am sure he said all I have told you.

Wynn's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows:—"I plead guilty to striking Mr. Dear; Samuel had nothing to do with it; I deny having had the chisel for six months."

COURT to MR. DEAR. Q. At what time was it that the lad was looking over the prints, and you heard the whistle? A. Half-past 11.

MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Were you in the shop at half-past 9? A. Yes; but I heard three whistles—that at half-past 11 was about an hour before the robbery.

Witnesses for the Defence.

JOHN PERKINS . I am shopman to Anthony Berni, a hatter, of 203, Strand—I was there a fortnight, and during that time Samuel Selway was under my direction—I had to show him his work in every point—he has been an honest, steady, industrious lad, and well conducted—I have only known him a fortnight; for though I have been in Mr. Berni's establishment 12 years, it has been at another establishment, in Pall Mall.

Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. How long has the boy been there? A. I do not know—he was there at half-past 7 on the Monday morning when I went—I will swear I was there for a fortnight before 19th April—I cannot say exactly the day I went, but it was the Monday fortnight previously—I swear to that day—I mean to swear I was there on Monday, 4th April, and the boy was in the service then—Mr. Berni is at his establishment

—he hired the lad—I do not know whether he had been in any other situation.

MR. ORRIDGE. Q. What time did the boy leave the shop? A. I heard a cry of "Stop thief!" he was then at my side—I went to the door, and said, "There he goes"—Samuel ran from behind the plank and said, "I think that is my brother"—he ran across after him without hat or cap—a few minutes elapsed, and the crowd came back—Stanley was in custody, and Samuel burst into teal's and said, "Dear me! my brother has stolen Mr. Dear's cash-box"—I said, "Do not you go; you stay with me"—as he was making his way to the door he said, "I must go to my brother"—he appeared in great distress—he had got his cap in his hand, and was putting it on—he then left—he had been about the place as usual from a quarter to 8 that morning, and had not left at all—his work was to sweep the shop up, to clean the boots, and the knives and plates—he did that between 9 and 10 down-stairs, and he was then assisting me in the shop.

MR. ROBINSON. Q. Did he seem in very great distress? A. Yes; he burst into tears—he had not been over to Mr. Dear's—before he went out he said, "It looks like my brother"—I had seen Stanley before beating the mats, but did not know him as Samuel's brother—I made no inquiry.

COURT. Q. When you heard the cry of "Stop, thief," and went to the door, what did you see? A. I saw Stanley running across the road by himself, five or ten yards behind him; they were just turning round at the west end of the church when Samuel came up to the door—Stanley was in front of them still—our shop is at the corner of Essex-street—the persons in pursuit of him were exactly between me and him, and I could only see them, and not him—I did not see him stopped at Wych-street—Samuel spoke as soon as he came up to the door—I said, "There he goes," he was then crossing the road—I could see him; immediately afterwards they and others followed in pursuit; and Samuel, seeing him, then said, "I think it is my brother," and ran with the crowd—I did not say that Samuel did not join me at the door till they were turning the corner of the church—I now state that when the cry of "Stop thief was, I immediately went to the door, and Samuel came up directly, and I said, "There he goes," seeing the prisoner run by; and as the crowd were passing, Samuel passed with them—they were going angularly across the road to the south-west corner of the church.

COURT to JAMES SKIDMORE. Q. When did you first find out that it was the cash-box that Stanley had? A. Not until he got into the shop—I clutched his hand, and would not allow him to move whatever it was—I heard the mob say that he had stolen a cash-box, as I turned back towards Mr. Dear's shop; I saw Samuel at that time; I saw no cash-box—whatever it was, was under his coat.

THE COURT expressed a doubt upon MR. ROBINSON'S opening, whether the evidence would sustain the charge for stealing from the person, but having consulted MR. JUSTICE CROWDER and MR. BARON CHANNELL held, that, though the cash-box was not taken from the prosecutor's person, yet, it being in the room in which he was sitting, he being aware of it, it was virtually under the protection of his person; and, as to the second count, if the Jury thought that the prisoners did grievous bodily harm, to disable the prosecutor from protecting his property, their final intent being to rob; that count would be good.


STANLEY SELWAY and WYNN— GUILTY of the robbery and assault;

The Jury stated that they considered the cash-box under the prosecutor's protection.

Wynn was further charged with having been before convicted.

THOAS BAMPTON (Policeman F 97), I produce a certificate (Read: "Bow-street Police-court, James Wynn Convicted on his own confession, of stealing 2l. 15s. of his mistress—Confined Two Months")—I had him in custody, and was present—Wynn is the person.

GUILTY.— Ten Years Penal Servitude.

Frederick Merdon, clerk, of 13, Cannon-street, and George Mallow, boot-maker, of 26, Goswell-street, gave Stanley Selway a good character.— Four Years Penal Servitude.

There was another indictment against Wynn for forgery.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-515
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

515. JAMES KINLEY (25) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of George Thomas Smith, and stealing therein 1 wooden bowl, 1 lb. of shoe hairs, 54 leather soles and other articles, value 1l. 13s., and 2s. 6d. in money, his property.

MR. BARRY conducted the prosecution.

GEORGE THOMAS SMITH . I an a leather-seller, of 3, Gun-terrace, Rhodes-well-road, Limehouse—on 16th March, at half-past 12 at night, I fastened up my shop, saw the fastenings all secure, and went to bed—I came down at 6 next morning, went into the shop at twenty minutes to 7, found a desk opened, which had not been fastened, and the papers strewed about the floor; the cash-book, day-book, and ledger were removed out of the desk and laid on one side—I found a hole cut through the brick wall, 18 inches thick, between my house and the next—the hole was big enough for a man to get in; it measured 13 inches by 12; we tided it by my man—I missed from the till a bowl containing about 120 farthings; also 41/2 dozen of soles, 3 gross of iron tips, 2 bundles of kip leather, and shoe hair, value altogether 7l. or 8l.—I went into the adjoining empty house, and found 3 gross of iron tips, the empty bowl that had contained the farthings, and in the yard a pair of boots of mine; in the room was 2 bundles of kip leather, one of which was tied up by two pocket-handkerchiefs, and strapped round by a leather belt—I left my man in charge of the property while I communicated with the police.

AMELIA ARNOTT . I am not married—I live at 118, North-street, Lime-house; I have known the prisoner intimately about eighteen months; he has slept with me, but I did not live with him—from something which was told me I spoke to him about three weeks after I heard it—I said, "Agnes Kitchener met me, and told me you broke into Mr. Smith's, the leathercutter's"—he said, "You are a liar; and what is it to you if I did do it—I did do it"—I said, "Agnes Kitchener says, the way you broke into the house was through the brick wall"—he said that I was a liar—I have seen, this handkerchief and belt before; they belonged to the prisoner—I have washed the handkerchief several times for him.

Cross-examined by MR. LEWIS. Q. Is he the only man that visits you? A. Yes; I know this handkerchief by the triangle in the middle of it; these two squares that enter into one another—the prisoner and I have had no quarrel—he left off visiting me because, I suppose, he found somebody better than me, and he stopped away—I did not tell him I would be even with him—I do not know what you mean—I did not speak to the prisoner about it till I had heard it from Agnes Kitchener several times; I do not know the reason—I did not tell him for a fortnight or three weeks; but if I said anything,

he used to hit me—he struck me when I told him this, and gave me a black eye—I know this belt by a join in the middle of it, a crack and three holes agin it—I have seen it several times: he used to have it under the flap of his trousers round his waist—I had no quarrel with him; he only left and did not come again—I do not know where Agnes Kitchener is.

COURT. Q. Did you go to him to tell him? A. No; he came down to me on Friday night; I had not sent for him—I told Mr. Smith, in consequence of what I had heard Agnes say; that was after I told the prisoner—I am expecting to be confined, and the prisoner is the father of my child—I have spoken to him about it, and he says that he knows it is his child, and will get me some money as soon as it lies in his power—there has been no quarrel between us.

TIMOTHY COX (Policeman K 45). In January last I stopped the prisoner carrying a pair of boots in this old handkerchief (The one identified as the prisoner's)—he could give no satisfactory account of himself, and I attempted to take him in custody; he resisted, and I took him by the collar—he got hold of my coat, tried to throw me, and said, "You b—r, I will smash you"—he had hold of one side of the handkerchief and I of the other, and it was torn in the struggle as it now is; and I have had it ever since—I took hold of a strap similar to this, which he had round his waist under his waistcoat.

Cross-examined. Q. Did not the handkerchief contain books belonging to Arnott? A. Yes; he had ten days for assaulting me—there was no pretence for any charge against him for what was in the bundle—there were three examinations against the prisoner—the magistrate refused to commit on the testimony of the girl alone, without a satisfactory account of the handkerchief—Copping came to me to give my evidence.

WILLIAM COPPING (Policeman, K 379). On 17th March I received information; went to Mr. Smith's, and received this belt, which I have kept ever since, and these handkerchiefs—I left them with him, but they are the same—this crowbar (produced) is the instrument they made the hole through the back wall with—I apprehended the prisoner on Monday, 18th April, and told him the charge—he said, "I shall not go"—I and another officer laid hold of him and took him in custody—he said, "I know nothing about it."

Cross-examined. Q. Who has had charge of the case? A. I have—Kitchener is here—I do not know whether she is to be examined for the prosecution.

COURT to AMELIA ARNOTT. Q. When is the last time you saw the handkerchief? A. The time I washed it, which was about a fortnight before the robbery—I heard of the robbery from Agnes Kitchener about three weeks after it was done—I saw the hankerchief a fortnight before the robbery was done—the prisoner pulled it out in our kitchen to wipe his nose.


FOURTH COURT.—Friday, May 13th, 1859.


Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq., and the Third Jury.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-516
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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516. JAMES SULLIVAN (33) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Charles Graydon, and stealing therein a workbox and a pair of ear-rings, his property.

MR. LANGFORD conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES GRYDON . I live at 7, Saint Anne's-place, Limehouse, in the parish of Saint Anne's—early on the morning of 13th April, or after midnight, I went over my house and locked it up—I particularly marked some shutters in the front window looking into the street—I went to bed, and about 4 o'clock I was called up—I looked at the same shutters, and observed that they must have been drawn open—the screw had been drawn—the bolt from the bottom was gone—the two hand-screws were drawn very much, and by forcing those bolts any one could have got in—I did not miss anything till the policeman awoke me, when he showed me this workbox, and asked me if it was mine—it contained a pair of ear-rings—this apron is mine—I had seen them safe at 12 o'clock at night, when I went to bed—I had to move the box to fasten the shutters.

Prisoner. Q. Did you put the light out before you went to bed? A. No; the window bad no fastening—I fastened the shutters—I did not sleep in that room—I never heard the policeman say that he was going to look for his mate.

COURT. Q. Could the window have been opened from the outside? A. Yes; but it would take a great deal of trouble, because the sash-cords were broken—the shutters could easily have been forced from the outside—the sash-lines were broken previous to this, so as to make it difficult to raise the window—I was sleeping up stairs, and I heard no noise whatever until the policeman came.

THOMAS NORMAN (City-policeman, K 4). About 1 o'clock, on the morning of 13th April, I was in the Commercial-road, near Saint Anne's-street, Limehouse—I met the prisoner there.—he asked me to direct him to a coffee shop—I did so—that was about a hundred yards or more from the prosecutor's house—I saw the prisoner after this several times walking to and fro in the Commercial-road, near Saint Anne's-street—just before 4 I saw him turn into Saint Anne's-street—I saw that the prosecutor's shutters were open—I heard a noise as of a window being shut, and I saw the prisoner coming towards me—I was standing at the top of the street—I said to him "What have you got under your coat?" he said, "Nothing"—I then took hold of his coat, turned it back, and I found there this work-box—it was locked—I took him down Saint Anne's-street; and, when I got to the house, I said, "How did you become possessed of this box?" he said, "That is where I got it," pointing to where the shutters were open—I then rapped at the door—after a few minutes the prosecutor came down—I examined the shutters, and found the middle bolt drawn, and two screws drawn at each side—it appeared to me that whoever got hold of the shutters must have pulled them from underneath, at the bottom.

COURT. Q. Did you see how the screws were bent? A. They seemed regularly drawn—I had before this seen the shutters safe—I had remarked them.

Prisoner. Q. Is not this a house of ill-fame? A. It is—I gave the box to the prosecutor's wife, while I went to fetch my mate—I do not think I, was away more than two or three minutes—I took the box, part of the way to the station-house, and the prosecutor's wife carried it the other part.

Prisoners Defence. I am a seafaring man—I had a drop of liquor, and separated from my shipmates—I was looking for a coffee-house, and passed this house—the shutters were open, and the window—I saw the box, took it up, and stayed by the house—the policeman took me, knocked the people up, went away to find his mate, and then took me into custody—I have been eleven years in and out of the port of London.

COURT. to THOMAS NORMAN. Q. Was be sober at the time? A. He appeared perfectly sober.

GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-517
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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517. WILLIAM BROWN (20) , Robbery on David Robinson, and stealing from his person a watch, value 1l., his property.

MR. BEST conducted the Prosecution.

DAVID ROBINSON . I am a seaman, and live at 20, Dean-street, Shadwell—on 25th March last, about half-past 4 o'clock, I was going down High-street, Shadwell—people were travelling backwards and forwards at the time—the prisoner came up, knocked me down, and pulled my watch right off—I fell—I got up again, and made a blow with this stick, but missed him, and fell down again on my face—he then ran away—I followed right up as far as Shadwell docks—the prisoner went among some small houses—there were some people standing there—I lost sight of him there—I felt my watch go as I fell down—he nipped the swivel of the watch—I am certain he is the man.

Cross-examined by MR. BARRY. Q. Where had you been before this occurred? A. At No. 4, Fenchurch-street—I did not go into the house—I had a pint of beer at my dinner—there were a great many people passing backwards and forwards in the High-street—it was not dark, it was sunlight—somebody must have seen it—no one came to my assistance—I did not notice the prisoner till he came against me—I think he was coming to meet me—I had noticed my watch in my pocket not two minutes before that—I did not see the watch fall—I did not see it in the prisoner's hand, but I saw him take it out—I did not tell any one, I had not time—I gave chase directly—I gave information to the police soon after, and described the man, and they said they knew him—I saw the prisoner again about a fortnight afterwards, coming up the same road—I told a policeman—I saw the prisoner after that at the station—that was last Friday, 6th May.

THOMAS JAMES PAYNTER . I reside at High-street, Shadwell—on 25th March last I saw the prosecutor there—I saw the prisoner run against him with great force, and the old gentleman fell down—he got up again, followed after him, made a blow at him with his stick, and he came down again with very great force—the prisoner ran down towards the docks, and the prosecutor followed him—I knew the prisoner before—I have not the least doubt that he is the man.

COURT. Q. How long have you known him? A. About three months.

Cross-examined. Q. Had you seen the prisoner since 25th March? A. I saw him about three weeks afterwards—I have seen the prosecutor since—I told him that I had seen this man—I told the police afterwards that I had seen him—there was no one near when I saw him, or else I should have given him into custody.

ROBERT FRANKLIN (Policeman, K 480). I took the prisoner in custody on 6th May, in consequence of something the last witness told me.

GUILTY .**— Four Year's Penal Servitude.

OLD COURT.—Wednesday, May 14th, 1859.


and Mr. Ald GABRIEL.

Before Mr. Justice Crowder and the Second Jury.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-518
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude

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518. WILLIAM WAGNER (45), and WILLIAM WYNN BRAMWELL (25) were again indicted (see page 54,) together with HORTON BATEMAN (27) , for feloniously forging and uttering an order for the payment of 270l., with intent to defraud.

MESSRS. BODKIN, GIFFARD, and SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM WHITEHEAD CHANDLER . I now come out of the gaol of New-gate—I pleaded guilty at the last session to indictments for forgery—I first became acquainted with Wagner in May or, June, 1857—I was then in poor circumstances—I wanted to borrow some money—my first introduction to Wagner was for the purpose of discounting a bill—I know a man named Kerp—No. 10, York-buildings, Adelphi, was taken as an office—Wagner took the house—Bateman joined him about July or August last year—the name of "Bateman and Co." was on a plate on the door, and "Bateman and Co., Law, Parliamentary, and General Stationers" in the windows of the front room, with the word Agents" at the bottom—Bateman married Wagner's wife's sister—Kerp lived at Mrs. Skelton's, in John-street, Fitzroy-square—I hare repeatedly been there with Wagner—I don't recollect Bateman ever going with me or Wagner—I have not seen him there—I have been with Wagner for the purpose of getting certain documents from Kerp, and on one occasion for the purpose of taking certain papers out of a slop-pail, which had a false bottom that unscrewed, and where papers were kept for the purposes of forgery—an arrangement was also made for concealing papers, at York-buildings, in the rolling-pin—I know this 300l. note (produced)—that was the proceeds of the forgery of Mr. Aitkin's cheque for 375l.—Wagner gave that note to me to take to the Bank of England for the purpose of getting changed—I went into the bank, and came out without changing it, and gave it to Wagner—he then gave it to Bateman, who went in and procured the change—he got some gold and a certain number of notes, which Wagner gave to me, and I changed them at Spielman's—I got there a 1,000 franc note—I gave it to Wagner, and he gave it to Bateman, who went with it to Smart's—I remember his coming back from Smart's and saying he had a cheque from Mr. Smart for 40l.—this is it (produced)—Bateman took a copy of this cheque on tracing paper, and then he took the real cheque to Drummonds' and procured the money for it—Wagner procured from Humphreys a blank form of cheque on Drummonds—it had no stamp on it; and a conversation took place between Wagner, myself, and Bateman, as to how the stamp was to be accomplished; and Humphreys was to be applied to for the purpose of making a die—I believe Humphreys promised to do it speedily—Home delay took place, and Wagner, not liking it to remain any longer, it was arranged that Bateman and myself should try if we could make a die—Bateman commenced by purchasing some plaster of Paris, and it was at last accomplished—the plaster one was afterwards broken up, and one was made in metal, and with that we impressed the stamp upon the blank cheque that was brought by Humphreys—that blank cheque was then filled

up by Bateman, in my presence, for the sum of 270l.—this is it (produced)—Bateman said that Jones, a friend of his, knew a man of the name of Bramwell who would present the cheque—he said that Bramwell was taking care of an empty house in the neighbourhood of Soho—Jones went to consult Bramwell, and came back and told Wagner, Bateman, and myself the nature of the correspondence he had had with him—it appeared that 20l. was to be left as a deposit by whoever took the house; and if somebody would come to the house and pretend to pay the money, and protect him, by writing letters to that effect, he would present the cheque—that was the arrangement made in the presence of Bateman, myself, and Wagner—these two letters (produced) were written by Bateman—I posted one of them I believe—it was arranged that the cheque should be presented on 21st January—it is dated the 20th—Jones went to Bramwell to ascertain whether the two letters had arrived safely, and came and reported that they had, and in the evening of the 20th the cheque was given to Jones for the purpose of giving to Bramwell—it was not inclosed in the letter—(The two letters were here ready as in the former case)—On the following morning I went to York-buildings—Wagner and Bateman were both out—they came in about 12 o'clock, I think—Jones had been in just before—Jones told me in Wagner and Bateman's presence that there had been some mistake at the banker's, the money had not been paid; and that a clerk had gone with Bramwell up to his house—Wagner, Bateman, and I consulted, and Wagner came to the conclusion that it was a falsehood of Jones's, that the money had been received, and that Jones and Bramwell had got it, and had cheated them—Wagner suggested that Bateman and himself should go to the house, and they left for the purpose of seeing whether there was an officer there or not—they returned in about two hours, and Bateman then told me that he had been over the house, and he had seen a man he presumed to be an officer, who was smoking a pipe; and he laughed, and said, "Well, officer or not, I have lighted my cigar from his pipe"—he was smoking at the time—I know a female named Fairbairn—I don't recollect whether she went out that morning with Bateman—Wagner and Bateman left together.

Bateman. Q. You perfectly understand the nature of an oath? A. I presume I do—I have sworn that I acted as clerk at your place—I had a commission upon every business that was done there; that was the understanding that Wagner made with me, before you came from Holyhead, that you should start a law-stationery business; and upon my having a commission upon all business done there, I was to act as clerk, and carry on my own business as well as a money agent and commission agent—from October I was there regularly daily, from morning till evening—the business carried on was principally money agency; discounting bills was the principal, except a little law stationery that you did—it was a general money agency; discounting bills, and raising money on different loans—I did all the money agency business in general; you also attended to it, certainly; the law stationery part was your own business, but there was very little of that carried on—your time was employed in legitimate business—you did the out-door work; I did the in-door—there was enough legitimate business for us both at times—I don't think I received a great deal as my share of the legitimate business; a good deal of time was occupied in attempts to carry out business that was not done—I don't think my commission, from the time I joined in October, amounted to 20l. at the outside; decidedly not more—have on a pair of plaid trousers which I had of you; and I bought a coat

of you which I have not paid you for; I had those clothes because they were two small for you, and they happened to fit me; I bought the coat of you only a few days before I was taken, or you would have been paid for it, no doubt—I believe I had quite as good a suit of my own; of course I had it to look respectable in—the first time I saw you was a very few weeks after Mrs. Wagner's death, which was last May—I saw you in York-buildings in the early part of June—you were repeatedly up from Holyhead—I was not first introduced to you concerning a loan which Mr. Gilbert was negociating for—I introduced such a matter to you; I believe I answered an advertisement—I don't think that was the first occasion upon which we had a conversation—I had a conversation with Wagner and you together as to what you were about to do presently, in York-buildings soon after it was arranged that you and I were to commence operations together, I did what I have been in the habit of doing, answered advertisements in the Times, of persons asking for money—Mr. Gilbert advertised for a loan, in some initial; I gave you the letter, and you carried it on I believe, for him—I believe that was our first transaction—you and Wagner gave me 4l. for that—I don't know what you realised; you told me 20l.

Q. What has been your occupation for the last five or six years? A. Since I left Bury-street, St. James's, I have carried on, as you are aware, a money-agency business solely—this is the first time the police have had me in custody; I swear that positively—I have been engaged in transactions in hops with a gentleman in the Borough, named Jones; that is within the last two years—I have known Mr. Jones five or six years—that was partly money-agency business—that was not the Mr. Jones I have been speaking of—I swear that I took part in the manufacture of a die, or stamp, in York-buildings; it was with you in the front kitchen; you and Wagner were down there with your coats off, and your shirt sleeves turned up, manufacturing this die; you had left me in the front office; and after you had been there about three hours, I went to see what you were about, and you were in the act of holding a ladle on the fire, with melted metal in it—you had made two or three impressions, and were in the act of making another; you had not succeeded in getting an even surface, and I suggested some improvement; you acted on my suggestion, and an even surface was obtained, and I remained and assisted in carrying it out—I merely suggested an improvement upon the plan that you and Wagner were carrying out—I could not identify the 1000 franc note of which I have spoken; I did not see you change it, or see Mr. Smart pay you a cheque—I believe I can imitate handwriting very well, as I have proved—I never tried to imitate yours; I dare say I could—I believe I could copy anybody's handwriting—I swear that I have never attempted to imitate yours in any cheque—I dare say I could make copies like the two letters that I say are in your handwriting, if I were to try—I have written answers to advertisements connected with forgery, in my own handwriting; not in a disguised hand—I have written letters in connexion with forgeries that I have had to do with with Wagner; in answering those I do not know that I have particularly tried to disguise my writing; I had no particular reason for so doing; I might or I might not—I don't consider it a forgery to answer advertisements; it was relating to forgery, with yourself and Wagner—you perfectly well know the nature of the transaction—when it was decided upon committing any forgery, and an advertisement was put in, I was the person to answer the advertisements, and to write them—I have written letters in connexion with forgeries with yourself and Wagner; I never had anything to do with forgery until

I knew Wagner—I have decidedly written letters in connexion with your forgeries; forgeries that I have been connected with with you and Wagner—perhaps I have attempted to disguise my hand; I don't know that I have, particularly—I have committed no forgeries, except that one of Mr. Chambers,—you know, as well as I do, that I have been connected with forgeries—since 1857 I have written letters of the description I have named; I should say there have been from fifteen to twenty forgeries committed, and possibly I have written as many letters, in connexion with forgeries that I have been connected with with you and Wagner; all of which have taken place since 1857—I wrote to a Dr. Jones, of Albany-street, Regent's-park—you know the object of my writing; I wrote for the purpose of ascertaining whether he would become surety for Mr. Croker; I had no other object at that time.

Q. Did you ever obtain any signatures from persons by writing to them, for the purpose of committing forgeries upon them afterwards? A. I believe there have been several suggestions of that sort—I had the correspondence in York-buildings; consequently I wrote all the letters, with the sanction of yourself and Wagner—I have written letters for the purpose of getting the signatures of gentlemen, with the intention of committing a forgery upon them afterwards—I am forty-eight years of age; you told me you were twenty-six—I say I have written several letters of that description, with the knowledge and consent of yourself and Wagner—I forged a cheque of Mr. Chambers for 440l.; I wrote it myself—I never forged any other document besides a cheque—not a bill of exchange, or anything of that kind—I have knowingly sent a person to a bankers with a forged cheque; you know I have done so; I have done so in the business at York-buildings, certainly; all the business in which I have been engaged connected with forgeries has been with yourself and Wagner—possibly I may have sent half a dozen persons to the bankers with forged cheques; when I say I, I include you—sometimes the money was obtained, sometimes not—the proceeds of the forgeries that were successful came through your fingers or Wagner's; they came into my hands in the shape of bank notes—sometimes I have changed those notes into gold; I think you are better able than I to judge how often—possibly I have done it three or four times; I should think I have been to the Bank of England three or four times to do it, and I have been with you to the money changers in the city—perhaps to four or five money changers, or possibly to half-a-dozen—you can put it down, in round numbers, a dozen times, if you like; we have been both together in changing those notes—I did not write my own name of Chandler upon them—those notes were given to me in York-buildings by you and Wagner, and in your presence and his I have sat down at the table in the back-room, and opened the Law List carelessly, and the first name I have hit upon I have put on the back of the notes in your presence—I have written many names on the backs of notes; you are aware of that—I had done so frequently with Wagner, before I became acquainted with you, while you were at Holyhead—I once took apartments in Beaumont-street, High-street, in the early part of 1858, I think; I hardly know in what month—I cannot recollect in what name—it was Wagner's suggestion that I should take apartments there, for the purpose of sending a man from that house with a forged cheque—the forgery was committed then by Kerp—from 1857, there have been constantly things of that sort done, before I knew you—I took the apartments for the purpose of carrying out a forgery that had been committed—I did not frequent Doctor's Commons whilst living there—the arrangement with

Wagner in taking those apartments was, that Wagner was to send a ticket-porter to me, at that house in Beaumont-street, with a letter, in which there should he a forged cheque, and I was to send the ticket-porter with the forged cheque to the bankers—I did send it—I did not pretend that I had received it from Dr. Lushington—I believe the man that gave the letter to the ticket-porter in Doctor's Commons told him that it was from Dr. Lushington; and the man came to me as if he had brought the letter from Dr. Lushington—Wagner told me he had arranged it in that manner; that the porter was to fancy he brought it from Dr. Lushington, and he would the more readily go with the cheque—we were not successful in that forgery—I don't thing you knew me then; I don't think you were in London at the time—you had nothing to do with that—that forgery was upon the branch Bank of England, in Saville-row—I believe I have been concerned with Wagner in two other forgeries on the same bank—I think one was a cheque for 260l., and another for 80l.—I won't swear positively that those were the amounts, but somewhere about that—you had nothing to do with those—I never lived in Manchester-street, or the neighbourhood of Manchester-square—I never took apartments there—I put the name of "White-head, Manchester-street, Manchester-square" on the back of a 20l. note, which had been obtained through one of Wagner's forgeries that has not been mentioned which I was connected with—I think the amount of that forgery was 120l.—I believe it was within the last twelve months—it was not since I have known you—I know a jeweller of the name of Hawley; at least, I don't know him personally, I know there is such a man—I never committed a forgery upon him; I was connected with it—that was the one for 120l. to which I have alluded—I know Mr. Lewin, of Southampton-street—I never forged upon him—I gave Wagner some information with regard to Mr. Lewin; and Wagner, without my knowledge, committed a forgery, and sent it to the bank—I knew nothing at all about it until it was all over—I know that Wagner committed it, simply by his coming to my house at Battersea, and telling me that the thing had been done; that the money had been obtained, but that the man, in going to the Bank of England, had foolishly lost the 100l. note—I supplied the information upon that forgery—of course it was understood between Wagner and myself that I was to have part of everything I had to do with—I don't recollect the date of that, I dare say Mr. Mullens knows—it is within the last two years; before I knew you—I had an uncle of the name of Whitehead—I was in his employ for eleven years—I left him in 1840—he had property nearly all over London—he had some low houses in a court at Westminster, that you have heard me speak about—I collected all his rents at the time I was with him—a man swindled him out of the rent of those houses, and out of the houses themselves, and pulled them down, and sold the materials—it is twenty years ago—my uncle built the houses up again—I was not concerned in that transaction in any shape—my uncle used to bank with Cocks and Biddulph—he banked there these forty years—I did not, while in his employ, forge, or attempt to forge, upon him—there was one attempt; some man committed a forgery upon him for 100l., and got the money—that was before I went to my uncle; in fact, it must have been when I was a boy, not fifteen—since I left him, I have been concerned, with you, in attempting to forge upon him—you recollect the amount better than I do—the cheque was written in your office—I believe it was for 250l.—the cheque was taken out of your book for the purpose—I have never heard that my uncle has bought up one or more forged Bank of England notes, that it was stated I

had passed—I have passed four Bank of England notes; those I was charged with, I had them from Wagner—perhaps I have passed more—perhaps you can recollect how many—I won't attempt to say; I decline answering the question—I have had several forged notes from Wagner, which I have passed, as you are perfectly well aware of, and Wagner also—I have certainly not passed twenty; possibly ten, including the four I was charged with—the Mr. Jones, with whom I had some transaction in hops, banked at the Unity Bank, in Cannon-street, City—in connexion with Wagner, there was a forgery attempted upon Mr. Jones—I cannot recollect the date; it was before you knew me, certainly—I don't recollect the amount—I don't think it was 100l.—I never paid in a fictitious cheque to Mr. Jones's account, but Wagner sent a man with a fictitious cheque into the bankers—I was concerned with Wagner in it—I have lived in Frederick-street, Gray's-inn-road—I lodged at Mr. Van Gelder's there for about a month, in the name of Whitehead—my object in going there was this: Van Gelder was in some difficulties with regard to his property, and Wagner wished me to go there, and in case an execution came into his house, I was to try to make it appear that the property was mine—Van Gelder was an acquaintance of Wagner's—I did not know anything of him before I knew Wagner—I have lived for years in the neighbourhood of Vauxhall-bridge—in the forgeries, with which I have been connected with Wagner, I have taken apartments in several directions about London, and, I believe, in Pimlico; but I do not recollect the names of the places now—all these matters have been within the last two years—one matter has been done in Pimlico since I knew you—I know Kerp very well—I have been personally concerned with him in committing and carrying out several forgeries—Kerp was taken into custody with a man named Franklin, in a matter with which I was concerned with Wagner—Franklin was transported for seven years—Kerp was remanded for a week, and acquitted, on the ground that there was no evidence against him—I went down with Wagner into the city, in order to see Kerp to send a man with the cheque—that was in September, 1857, before I knew you—I never knew a man named Bethell—I knew a lady of that name; very well by name, not by sight—I never saw her—I never forged or attempted to forge, upon Mrs. Bethell—I have lived in Stafford-place, Pimlico—that is one of the places with which you were concerned—I have been connected with forgeries since I have known Wagner—May or June, 1857, was my first acquaintance with him, and soon after I became connected in these matters with him—I knew you before I commenced business with you in October—I came down to York-buildings, I believe, on 1st October, for the purpose of entering into transactions with you, but I had known you some few months previously—within a month after I knew Wagner I was concerned with these forgeries, up to the time I knew you, and from that time until I was taken into custody—I dare say I have been connected, altogether, with twenty forged cheques, before I knew you, and since—I am now under conviction for two forgeries, and four forged Bank of England notes—I should have pleaded guilty to any quantity, because I felt myself guilty.

Q. Is forgery the only kind of crime that you have tried your skill on? A. Yes, decidedly; I do not know of anything else—I never stole any bills of exchange—I obtained a bill of exchange from a Captain Cockburn at Wagner's house in the New-road; it was certainly not stolen—Captain Cockburn advertised for a loan, I answered the advertisement, and after some correspondence he sent me a bill—I took the bill to a friend of mine in

Conduit street, and it was to have been done—Wagner and I had a quarrel about it—Wagner fancied that he was entitled to more than he ought to have had, and he went to this friend of mine in Conduit-street, and prevented the bill being done; and the bill was then given back to Captain Cockburn, by my friend in Conduit-street, by my consent—I never kept or dishonestly appropriated the proceeds of a bill of exchange—I have kept my commission upon all bills that I have had to do with—I never kept the whole amount—I never stole a watch while I was in the House of Detention, in the name of William Chambers—I was called down in mistake for a George Chambers who was there for stealing a watch—I mentioned that fact to Miss Fairbairn, and, I suppose, she conveyed the information to Wagner, which enables you to ask me the question—I know a man named Morton—I never stole a watch from Mrs. Morton while Morton was in custody—I swear that—I never obtained goods by false pretences, and never was concerned in doing so with Van Gelder, Wagner, or anybody—I have a wife and seven children—I never communicated to my wife the fact that I had been committing forgeries; she never knew anything at all about it; most distinctly not—I know that Funnell, the officer, has stated, that when I was apprehended I said to my wife, "These men are taking me into custody for forgery," and that my wife then said, "I thought you had left off forgery;" instead of which, what she said was, "Surely you are not in custody for forgery"—Funnell has made a mistake, I don't suppose he meant it—one of my children is a little lame; he is 16—he is apprenticed to a wood-engraver—he has hardly had time to be clever yet; he has only been a few months at it—he is clever for the time he has been at it—I swear most distinctly that I never employed that son in the attempt to engrave or sink a die or stamp; but allow me to explain; you drew on a piece of wood a penny stamp, and hearing that my son was an engraver you said, "I think you might get your son to engrave this," and at the request of Wagner and yourself I consented to ask him to do it, but upon reflection I did not ask him—I put the thing in my pocket, and put it behind the fire—it is a great consideration with me to be restored to my wife and family—I have given my evidence both in the hope to receive a mitigation of my sentence, and from a motive of justice, and for the reason I explained yesterday, that I understood from Miss Fairbairn, at least, from a conversation I had with her, I felt convinced that Wagner was going to turn evidence against me, if he could, and I made up my mind to turn evidence against him—I am not aware of one penny having been given to any member of my family by any person connected with this prosecution; neither do I believe a penny has been given—I have not stated to my fellow prisoners in the gaol that I expected to get twelve months, and afterwards to be set up in business—Mr. Humphreys appeared for me at my examination at the police-court—I instructed him to tell the magistrate that I had a satisfactory answer to make to every charge that might be brought against me—since my apprehension I have never sent messages to you demanding money—I have haft messages from you, at the House of Detention, brought by Miss Fairbairn—I saw you when you came back from Drummond's, and you said you had got the money for the 40l. cheque; I saw you start from York-buildings with the cheque, and I remained there till you came back—I did not see you enter Drummond's bank, nor did I see you go to Mr. Smart's.

Bramwell. Q. Have you ever seen me with either of these prisoners? A. No, I never saw you until I saw you in custody—I believe you did not

know Bateman when he went to look over the house—I saw Bateman write both these letters—sometimes I sealed up Bateman's letters—I sealed one, or closed it, rather; they are in adhesive envelopes; I put one in the post—I will swear that the cheque was not enclosed in either of these letters—I saw the cheque given by Wagner to Jones after the letter was posted—Bateman wrote both the letters and pushed them on one side, I was going out to post other letters, and I took the one presumed to contain the cheque and posted it with others—I can swear I posted one of these letters, and I believe it was the last one—(the prisoner here requested that the cheque and letter might be handed to the jury)—I never saw you till I saw you in custody at Marlborough-street—Jones said he knew a person named Bram-well, but I know nothing about you; I don't even know that you really are Mr. Bramwell—I only know that a Mr. Bramwell went on a similar occasion to the London and Westminster bank, in St. James's Square, on a cheque of Mr. Bentley's, and I presume you are the person—that was a few weeks previously—I don't say it was you—in reference to that cheque of Mr. Smart's, Jones came to York-buildings, and said, in consequence of Mr. Bramwell being disappointed in the money he thought he ought to have received out of Bentley's cheque, at the London and Westminster bank, he was ready to go on another errand, as he wanted money—I cannot prove that you are the Mr. Bramwell.

MR. BODKIN. Q. Had you your share of the result of all these forgeries? A. I had the sum agreed upon between us, and they had the rest—Bateman had his share.

JAMES DRUMMOND SANDERSON . (This witness's examination-in-chief was the same as in the former case, p. 79).

Cross-examined by MR. DICKE (for Wagner)—Q. You do not know Wagner? A. No.

Bateman. Q. Will you look at that 40l. cheque; do you recollect that being brought to your bank? A. No; I do not recollect seeing you before I saw you at the police-station.

Bramwell. Q. What did I say to you when I told you the cheque was a forgery? A. You said you had got it in an envelope from some person who called about a house that you had to let—I have seen you since—you stopped me in the street the morning you were apprehended—I don't remember your calling at the bank a few days after this, to ask if I had heard anything more about it.

EDMUND KNELLER SMART gave evidence as at page 79.

FREDERICK THOMAS BURTON . I am a clerk in the Union Bank, Argyll-place—Bateman & Co. had an account there—they opened it about eighteen months or two years ago—they have had the pass-books and cheques from us—I am acquainted with the handwriting on the cheques that I paid of Bateman's—I believe these two letters to be his writing.

Bateman. Q. Can you swear that I had an account at the Union Bank? A. I can swear that there was an account of Horton Bateman, & Co.—I can't remember ever to have seen you at the bank—I don't recollect seeing you at all—I have seen upwards of a dozen cheques, bearing the signature of H. Bateman & Co.—I believe these letters to resemble the writing that I know to have been yours, or to have been the writing of Bateman & Co.

COURT. Q. Is it not the custom when you take the signature of a new customer, to see him write it? A. It is the custom of the manager to see that done in the manager's room, but not for all the clerks to be present—I am a cashier.

Bateman. Q. Did you notice whether all the cheques signed H. Bateman & Co. were written by the same person? A. They were in one handwriting—I cannot recollect whether the signature was the same as the filling-up—I judge of the writing of these letters from the signature to the cheques—I have carefully examined the bank books, to see whether there is at present any account of Bateman & Co. and there is none; no balance whatever—the account is closed—I do not recollect when the last amount was paid in to their account.

MR. BODKIN. Q. Just look at that book; is that a cheque-book issued from your bank? A. It is—I believe the writing here to be the same as the cheques that I paid in the name of Bateman & Co.

HENRY WEBB gave the same evidence-in-chief as before.

Bateman. Q. You have watched York-buildings for some time? A. Yes—I never caught you in the pursuit of anything unlawful—I knew you were engaged in something unlawful—your conduct did not lead me to believe so—you always appeared as a gentleman, quite different to what you do now; in dress, I mean—you did not come to town daily—I have seen you come to town on several occasions—I have met you once or twice with a black carpet-bag, you and Chandler together—I did not watch daily—you lived at York-buildings—on one occasion, before you went to Battersea, you told me so—we were watching at that time—I have been to your house at Battersea on two occasions—I found nothing there relating to this case—you appeared to be surprised when I told you I had apprehended Chandler.

Bramwell. Q. Have you ever seen me go to York-buildings? A. No.

HENRY SMITH gave the same evidence in chief as before.

Bateman. Q. Where and when did you recognise me as the party that came to the house? A. At the police-station in Vine-street first, and again at Marlborough-street—when you came to the house, you and Bramwell spoke together, and you left the shop, and went up the stairs leading to the first floor—I did not follow you, and do not know what passed—it ran through my mind that you were known to each other, from the confident manner in which you spoke when you came in, and Bramwell going up to you; your eyes seemed to meet as if you understood each other, and I concluded from that that you were known to each other—you put questions to him respecting the house, and about the gas-fittings—I don't know whether you received the address of the party that had the house to let—you did not lead me to believe that you were the person connected with the forgery—a number of persons came to look over the house.

Bramwell. Q. How was it, if you thought I was guilty, that you did not take me in charge when you went home with me? A. In the first place, the bankers did not place you in my custody; in the second place, I followed you home to ascertain whether your statement was correct; and, in the third place, Mr. Mullens came up there while you were in the room, and you were not given into custody by him—I made inquiries, and everybody there said you were respectable, and I believed it at the time—I heard that the house belonged to your uncle, and that the two next houses belonged to your father—I sent for two pots of half-and-half; I think not more—the other officer was with me nearly all day—I have been to your uncles' in Greek-street; I believe him to be a respectable man—I did not ask him whether you were authorized to let the house—I simply went there to ask him where you had gone to when you removed—I did not notice what name was on the house—you went upstairs with Miss Fairbairn—she went out as Mr. Mullens came in; Bateman came in while Mr. Mullens was there—I saw a number of catalogues of Priest and Lawrence in the shop.

Margaret Shelton gave the same evidence as page 82.

EDWARD FUNNELL . I am a detective officer, and have acted with Webb in this business—I have nothing to add to his evidence.

Bateman. Q. Did you apprehend Chandler on 1st February? A. I did; I accompanied him back to his house; he said to his wife, "These two men are going to take me into custody, and to charge me with forgery"—she said, "Oh dear! forgery, I thought you had done with that; I thought, love, you told me you had got a clerk's situation."

MR. BODKIN. Q. Who was in the room besides yourself? A. Webb; I can't say whether Webb was in the room; he was just by the door—I did not write down the words; I trusted to my memory.

Cross-examined by MR. DICKE. Q. Do you feel quite positive about the words. A. Quite; I swear it distinctly.

The prisoner Bateman, in his defence, commented at great length upon the evidence; asserting that Chandler's evidence was false, and concocted for the purpose of saving himself from punishment; and stating that he should adduce evidence to show that the letters stated by Chandler to be his (Bateman's), were not in his handwriting.

Bramwell's Defence. I wish to call attention to one point in this man, Chandler's, evidence; and that is as to the cheque not being in the envelope; the Jury have seen it, and I would ask them if it is not folded up, so as to prove it must have been in that envelope; and there is no evidence but that to connect me with any forgery—the detectives inquired and found me respectable, and when I was called upon to give evidence about this, I went up to Mr. Mullens' office like an honest man—is not that in my favour? can you convict me upon that man Chandler's evidence?—what life has he been leading; can he give any references all through his life?—you have heard the questions put to him—no such questions could be asked about me—although no gentlemen come to speak on my behalf, the first thing I did when Mr. Mullens gave me in charge, was to make out a list of the persons I had been employed by; they are Dakin & Co., St. Paul's Church-yard; Mr. Alderman Sidney; Davy, McMurdo & Co., Patten-Wood; Thompson & Co., and Rosier & Co.; where I have had the management of thousands of pounds, and men under my employ—my last situation was with Davy, McMurdo & Co., which Mr. Mullens is well acquainted with, and he promised to go there, and inquire as to my respectability—I say there is no evidence to convict any of us but that man Chandler's; a wretch, a culprit, who ought to be up hanging outside.

Bateman called the following witnesses.

CHARLES RIGBY . I am the contractor for several great national works, amongst others, for Holyhead harbour and breakwater—I have many hundreds of men in my employ—you held an appointment at my works at Holyhead, from June, 1856, to 1858, quite to my satisfaction—you entered on it at a certain salary, and by the time you left you had more than doubled that salary—you left at your own wish, intimating that you were going into business on your own account—you solicited my patronage to the business—during the two years you were in our service, you conducted yourself in a very exemplary manner—I had no fault whatever to find with you—you made out very weighty returns connected with Holyhead harbour, and breakwater, quarterly, monthly, weekly, and daily returns—you kept my daily diary—I am well acquainted with your handwriting—the two letters produced are extremely unlike the handwriting you used to employ while in our service.

Cross-examined by MR. BODKIN. Q. At whose instance did you take him into your employment? A. At the instance of Mr. Noyes, the chaplain of

the Portland prison—I was told at the time I took him that he was a convict—we were not told what length of time he had served; we were told that he had a ticket of leave, and that he had borne a very good character while he was confined—we were asked to take him to give him an opportunity of reclaiming himself—Colonel Jebb interested himself for him; it was through our knowledge of Colonel Jebb that we took him—these returns were chiefly in figures—these letters do not resemble his in the slightest; it is in the shape of a law writer's writing, a kind of engrossment; this is quite a running-hand.

JOHN MORGAN DEAR . I am a solicitor, at 35, Lincolns-in-fields—I have had business transactions with you—you have made inventories and valuations of property in which I was concerned, and I have employed you as a law stationer—I have handed you money for services in which you have been engaged; my own cheque for somewhere about 20l. I believe—you have, also been concerned for me in other business, from October to February.

JAMES MARTIN . I am a bill-broker, and live at 44, Southampton-buildings; I have seen you on matters of business—you have introduced business to me, and have on several occasions solicited to have transactions with me in business—I always found you very anxious to do business with me.

Q. I have introduced that business to you which you found acceptable, and which you have done? A. I have been swindled out of my money, and you have tried to swindle me out of more—as you have called me, I will refresh your memory—you introduced Mr. Landseer to me, a nephew of the great artist; he sent a letter to you entreating forbearance, and enclosing a 5l. note, and you came to my office next morning in your ordinary swaggering way, with a cigar in your mouth, and took your seat on a desk in the most familiar manner, and said, "Sir, I have got a pound for you"—I refused to take it; and it was only because I held language of a very threatening nature that you felt so ashamed, that you were obliged to restore the money—you told me, at first, that I had better take the pound, or you would advise him to go through the Insolvent Court, and avoid payment altogether—I discounted a bill for 100l.—I took about 10l. out of it; I forget for how long a period, most likely it was a three months bill—you were the agent for the gentleman—I would not entertain it till you brought Mr. Landseer—I would not treat with you at all—I never liked your appearance—you have called me here under subpoena, and I have been waiting here lour days; it is the greatest injury to me, and you have made me no compensation.


Wagner and Bateman were further charged with having been before convicted. The former conviction against Wagner was proved by John Spittle, as at page 85.

EDWARD FUNNELL (re-examined). I produce a certificate from Mr. Straight's office (Read: Central Criminal Court, April, 1852; Horton Bateman convicted of larceny, after a previous conviction.

GUILTY.—Transported for Ten Years.) I was present at the trial; Bateman is the person.


WAGNER and BATEMAN.— Penal Servitude for Life.

BRAMWELL.— Ten Years Penal Servitude.

There were other indictments against the prisoner.

NEW COURT.—Saturday, May 14th, 1859.


Before Mr. Baron Channell and the Fifth Jury.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-519
VerdictNot Guilty > non compos mentis

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519. JOHN HUGHES (37) , Unlawfully and maliciously damaging a picture and several monuments in the Parish Church of St. Mary-le-bonne.

MESSRS. BOBKIN and METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY ARTHUR . I live in Nottingham-street—I am bell-toller in the Church of St. Mary-le-bonne—this picture was fixed up in that church over the altar—I was there on 31st March at the evening service—the church was closed after the service—I believe I was the last person in the Church—it was near 9 o'clock—Ship, the pew-opener, was there—we left together—this picture was safe at that time—this prayer-book was kept on the altar on the reading cushion, within the altar rails—I can't say whether the book was open—this letter was left on the vestry table—I left it there myself—it was as it is now, with the exception of one line in it; it is a begging letter—the next morning the pew-opener came for me—I went to the Church and found this picture, precisely in the state in which it is now—I found this Prayer-Book open, and written in in the way it is now—I then saw this letter—the inscription on this picture is, "Learn to worship God and destroy rubbish"—it is scratched on the varnish of the picture—the vestry door was forced open, the cords of the window were cut and tied down, and, I should say, the window was open two feet or more—there were several monuments in the church defaced, and a great deal of writing on them—on Worms' monument was written, "No business in a church"—Lord Teignmouth's monument had an arm defaced, and was written upon, "Not wanted here"—on Colonel Fitzgerald's monument the face is nearly lost, and the words written, "Learn your horses to smoke; you have made asses of yourselves"—there was a horses head on it, and a pipe in the horse's mouth—on Mr. Corbyn's monument the words were written, "What an old guy"—on Mr. Fairlam's monument the bearings were defaced, and the head destroyed, and on it was written, "Your herald's college in the college-room"—on another monument was a drawing of a monkey with a pipe in its mouth—there were several other inscriptions on different parts—none of them were there on the previous evening.

SARAH SHIP . I live at 18, Nottingham-street, and I am one of the pew-opener at Mary-le-bonne Church—on 31st March I locked up the church in the evening, and left everything safe—none of this damage was done at that time—on the following morning I went to the church at 8 o'clock—after I had seen some of this damage I called the last witness—this Prayer Book was lying open on the kneeling cushion, outside the communion rails—all the damage spoken to was done when I first went—there are two galleries in the church, and stairs leading up to them—a person, if so disposed, might conceal himself in the gallery or anywhere in the church.

COURT. Q. Did you notice the vestry? A. Yes—I found that the door had been broken open—the window had been opened and the cord fastened round the hook—that door had been locked—I had shut up the vestry, and locked the door on the church side—I found the window open which had been shut.

EDWARD LAYOUT . I superintend the workshop in the Hanwell Lunatic Asylum—the prisoner was confined there as a lunatic—he was discharged in October—he was there eighteen or nineteen months—while he was there

he was working in the workshop, under my superintendence, but not always—he worked out sometimes—he was very much in the habit of writing while he was there—he wrote on his work and about the walls—he was making benches and rails—he wrote with pencils—I have had opportunities of seeing his writing, and judging of it—the writing on the cover of this Prayer Book I believe to be his—the writing in this other book I believe to be his—in page 426, here is something which I believe is his writing—in page 430, here is written, "London is the place for rubbish," which I believe is his writing—I saw him write on the wall, "Rubbish"—"Old Guy," and a pipe in his mouth—he was very much against smoking—I have heard him make a great many remarks against it—in the asylum, books are lent to patients, and he used to write in them—in this picture there is a pipe in the mouth, and "Rubbish" written under it—I believe that to be his writing—in different parts of the asylum there is written, with a black lead pencil, "Marlborough; thy name shall never die though fools forget thee. In a noble house like this, not envied is a fool's condition; for, when he gets cured of disease, he dies of inanition". "Lunatic doctors of lunacy—the lawyer's slaves"—What is a comet? the answer is in Psalm 115, verse 16, 'The working man's stumbling block'"—and a great many other things, which I believe to be his writing—I can't say whether he had a Bible there.

Prisoner. About the third day after I arrived at Hanwell I was taken to the shop, and to work there under you; and what was the first job you gave me to do?—A. You did what you pleased; I waited to see if you would do any, and you would not—I did not give you an axe to grind—I do not remember your catching me punching a boy named Haynes—we had no such name that I know of—I do not recollect, that I punched into him left and right.

MR. MERCALFE. Q. Have you been round the church and seen the monuments and the writing? A. Yes; and I believe the writing to be his—I saw the word "Rubbish" on the walls and monuments.

WILLIAM MAULDEN . I am one of the attendants of the Hanwell Lunatic Asylum—I saw the prisoner while he was there—he was in the habit of writing much at times—I cannot say how long he was there—he wrote on the walls, and the area court, and different places—I have seen writing on the walls of the room—he wrote with a pencil or white chalk—I have seen the writing on the monuments in the church, and in this Prayer-Book, and on this painting—I believe it to be the same character of writing as that written on the walls of the asylum—I believe the pencil marks in this small book are his writing.

FRANCIS WILLIAM CONCONEY . I am a ward attendant at Hanwell Lunatic Asylum—the prisoner left the workshop and was confined in the ward about four months—I have seen him write in different places, on the windows, and on the walls, and boards, with a pencil—the writing on this picture resembles his character of writing—I should think it was his writing—the writing in this Prayer Book is very much like his writing—I believe it to be his—I remember he wrote against pipes and tobacco.

Prisoner. Q. Were there not other men wrote there besides me? A. Yes; there was Charles Osborne—he used to write about the walls, but he never wrote as you did—Green and Vardy used to write, but not about the walls, as I have seen you write.

COURT. Q. Were there other persons who wrote on the walls as well as the prisoner? A. Not in that ward—I believe the writing on this picture and in these books to be his.

MARGARET BROWN . I am a widow, and am one of the pew-openers at Mary-le-bonne Church—on Sunday, 20th March, I saw a man resembling the prisoner, at church—I could not be positive it was him—I believe it was the prisoner—it was at the close of the sermon in the evening—he wanted to come into the gallery, and I said, "You can't come in now"—I kept my hand on the door for him to stop till it was all over—when the congregation was gone he came in and went into one of the pews—I said, "What do you please to want?"—he said, "What is that to you"—I went a little further, and he went down a few steps and looked down into the area of the church, and then he came up again—I said to him, "If you will please to tell me what you want, or who you are looking after, I will tell you"—he said, "I shall look over my own parish Church when I like"—he went right round the gallery, and down the stairs over the vestry-door—I did not see him again till I saw him at the court.

Prisoner. I am not in the habit of going to Church at all—we are in the habit of going round the fields and walking about on Sunday.

ALFRED DAVIS . I went to St. Mary-le-bonne Church about 10th March—I remember a person coming into the Church when the people were gone—it was a person similar in appearance to the prisoner—I believe it to be him.

Prisoner. It is not likely, if I was going to do mischief in that Church, that I should go and show myself to a lot of old women—I am not in the habit of going to church at all.

ELLEN MILLS . I am the wife of James Mills, and live at No. 49, Paddington-street—I know the prisoner—I have been in the habit of seeing him write—I believe the writing in this Prayer-Book to be the prisoner's, and this letter also—I believe the writing in this small book to be his—in the month of November I remember his being with his father-in-law—he said he would do something that the world would talk of him—I am positive the writing on this painting is his.

Prisoner. If you had seen that witness as I have seen her, with a poker in her hand, you would think her not very fit to give evidence.

SARAH MILLS . I have lived some time in the same house with the prisoner—I have no doubt that the writing in this small Bible is his—I never saw him writing—I have seen him make marks.

Prisoner. That is my wife.

COURT. Q. Are you his wife? A. Yes.

WILLIAM WATTS . I am in the employ of Mr. Horn—the prisoner worked at the next bench to me till about 25th January—I have had conversations with him while he was at work—I have heard him say he would destroy all sorts of images, and knock down statues, and break them up, and purify the Thames—he said he thought it was a great pity that Government should lay out so much money for persons to go about to foreign places to collect such rubbish as was in the British Museum—he said he would knock down the British Museum, and pave the streets with all such rubbish—he was in the habit of talking in this way about the images when any religious topic was introduced by any person in the shop.

Prisoner. The subject of religion was introduced about the Bishop of London preaching in a church. Witness. Yes; and I recollect one case of its being introduced about a woman preaching, and you commenced a long harangue, and said had you been there you would have told her to go home; and if she wished to know anything to consult her husband.

JOHN WATSON . I work for the same person as the last witness—I worked with the prisoner—he spoke once or twice of his dislike to images—he said he would have no such place as the British Museum—he said he

would knock it down and pave the streets of London with it—he went to hear the Bishop of London at one time, and he spoke of what he had told them.

COURT. Q. Did he seem to speak rationally about the Bishop of London preaching? A. He seemed to be excited about it.

MR. MERCALFE here produced a Bible of the prisoner's, in which the following passages were marked: 2 Kings, x. 26; 2 Kings, xi. 18.; xvii., 10, 12; xviii., 19; 2 Kings, 22; and several other passages relating to breaking idols and images.

DR. WILLIAM BAILEY . I am the Physician of the Hanwell Lunatic Asylum—the prisoner was admitted a patient there in March, 1857, and was there till November, 1858—there was a great deal of violence and destructiveness about him—he broke windows, and I believe he broke some statues, but I am not quite certain—he was very difficult to discover—he was very coherent in his conversation, and was constantly writing letters to the committee and others—he was discharged because the committee thought him sane, and wished him to be discharged; but I could not make up my mind that he was sane—I called in my colleague, and he thought it would be advisable to discharge him conditionally, for a month or two; and, if during the period of probation any violence occurred, he might be brought back without any certificate—his father refused to do anything with him—and his brother they said he was a most violent character—they referred me to Mr. Talkin's, a baker—he gave a very kind description of him—from what I have seen of him, and what I heard previously, I have no doubt he is of unsound mind—I consider that that unsoundness of mind would produce the effects we have heard of.

COURT. Q. You were not satisfied with his being discharged? A. I was very doubtful about it—he was there eighteen months, and for the last few months his conduct was greatly improved—I understand he had formerly an injury in his head, and was in the Middlesex Hospital.

Prisoner. Q. Did a Catholic priest tell you that I broke your images? A. No; my servant said she saw you there—I did not say, "breaking images,"—I said "statues."

Prisoner. You are demented; if not, you would not have put a formidable weapon in the hand of Roberts to go and kill Brady—I have seen Catholic priests there—you had better go back to your native Ireland; you are no use here—the doctor who recommended you came and looked in my eye, and said he could tell a lunatic by looking in his eye—what a precious fool he must be.

JOHN HUGHES . I am the prisoner's father—I remember his being in the Middlesex Hospital for six weeks—it was when he was in his apprenticeship, twenty years ago—he was treated for brain fever; and from that time to the present there have been symptoms of the same affliction—I believe they exist to the present time.

Prisoner. You were continually getting drunk—I can't help exposing you—what insanity have you ever seen in me—I told you everything as a son ought to tell a father—if you asked me any question, it was my duty to answer you—you have been under a delusion all your life—it was through you I was confined in a lunatic asylum for twenty months.

Prisoner's Defence. They want to prove me insane—I think I can prove a good many of them to be insane—I desire my son be called.

MILLS. On Sunday mornings and afternoons we used to go for a walk—we went to Church sometimes in the afternoon—we did not go to

Mary-le-bonne Church—we have been to church since you have been home from Hanwell.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Whose writing is this in this Prayer Book. A. I do not know—I have seen the writing on the monuments, and on this picture—I think some of the writing is the prisoner's.

The Prisoner desired Dr. Gibson, surgeon of Newgate to be sent for, to give information as to the state of his mind.

JOHN ROWLAND GIBSON . I have had conversation with the prisoner—I have not been able to discover anything amiss in him.

NOT GUILTY, being insane.

THIRD COURT.—Saturday, May 14th, 1859.


Before Mr. Recorder, and the Eighth Jury.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-520
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

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520. JOSEPH ADOLPHUS WOOLFF ZALMANOWICZ , Embezzling 1,650l., of Vincent Arachtingi.

MR. SLEIGH conducted the Prosecutions.

VINCENT ARACHTINGI . I am a merchant, carrying on business at 27, Austin-friars—the prisoner was my clerk, up to the time he was given in custody, at a salary of 1l. a-week, and perquisites—I first became acquainted with him in Liverpool, about four or five years ago—he was then clerk at a house in which I was manager—I established myself in London, in June last—two or three months afterwards the prisoner called on me, and shortly after that I took him into my employment—he entered his salary in this book (produced)—it was principally kept by himself—these entries are in his writing, "Salary to March 19th, 1l.; salary to March 26th, 1l.; April 9th, salary 1l."—on 15th April, I received these two checks, one for 1,450l., and the other for 200l., drawn in my favour (produced)—I gave them to the prisoner at about half-past 3 in the day, and directed him to pay them to Greenwoods', my bankers—I had on former occasions given him money and checks to pay into my bankers—I saw him again about half an hour afterwards, and he said that he had paid them to Glyn's—he was at the office till five o'clock—I went there next morning, Saturday, 16th, about 10—a communication was made to me by Messrs. Glyn, which caused me to go to their establishment—I returned thence to my office, and received this letter by post, in the prisoner's writing (Read: "My dear Sir,—In haste I must inform you, for your guidance, that before this will reach you I shall be away from England, and it will be useless to make any stir, as I am now out of reach. It should never have come to this; but, actuated by the many proposals you made me, and one not fulfilled, I thought my position precarious; therefore it was best to indemnify myself. Still, I thought not to injure you; and I hope sincerely that, in this case, you will not suffer, as I have always had a great regard for you. As for Mr. S. R, to whom I did not deliver your note, as I had no time, it matters little; he is rich, and can help himself. My drawer is open, and everything is safe there. I posted all the letters rightly. Hoping that I shall one fine day return you, with heart-felt thanks, all the bounty I reaped through you, I remain, yours, gratefully, J. Zalmanowicz. P.S. Should you go to extremities against me, it will not be me alone that will suffer the consequences. To V. Arachtingi, Esq.")—the note referred to in that letter is one that I gave him for a gentleman, with whom I am doing business, Mr. Stephen Redgill, in respect to which I had

taken bills of exchange, which have been discounted by the gentleman who gave me the checks.

Cross-examined by MR. SERGEANT BALLANTINE. Q. You and the prisoner originally met at Liverpool; were you brother servants in a merchant's house there? A. Yes—I had no fixed salary; I had a credit which would draw as much as I wanted—I believe my salary was about 100l. a year; we will say it was—I will allow you to say 120l. if you like—I don't know what it was—I do not remember exactly, because I used to draw more than I had—I cannot say whether it averaged about 100l.—I do not know whether the prisoner's salary was 80l.; I think it was 50l. or 60l.—I am now a merchant—I mean that I am in the Mediterranean trade—I charter vessels—I have several under charter now, going to the ports in the Mediterranean—I mean to swear that—I left the merchant in Liverpool, where I had the undefined salary, about three years ago—I then went abroad—I came back eight or ten mouths afterwards, And started in business as a merchant, with my cousin, Frederick Fadallah—I remained with him six or seven months; he lost nothing; but we dissolved partnership in December, 1857—I cannot tell you the exact date—I then started in my present business, the same business. I called myself F. and V. Arachtingi and Co.—I am the V. and my cousin was the F.—he is out of it now, but I carry on the same firm—the Co. are several who are interested; they are abroad; they are a great many foreigners, and I do not know them—I have no partner now—Glyn's became my bankers in June or July last; the money the prisoner is charged with stealing ought to have been paid into Glyn's—I believe Glyn's were under large advances at that time, about 10,000l.—I did not go to them to ascertain whether the money had been paid in; they sent to me because I drew two checks, and they told me the money was not provided for them—I staled that I had sent 1,600l. by the prisoner—they did not insist on my seeing their attorney, but I have employed him; I went by their desire to Mr. Mullens—this is where the prisoner debited himself with the salary, where the crosses are—it is down as Woolff's salary—I always knew the prisoner in the name of Woolff, Joseph Adolphus Woolff Zalmanowicz—at the merchant's house in Liverpool, he went by the name of Woolff—I knew when he came to London that his name was Zalmanowicz; this "Woolff" represents him—I had a clerk before the prisoner, but I dismissed him; the prisoner used to draw bills on me, not as Zalmanowicz; he served me in the name of Woolff, and drew on me in the name of Zalmanowicz; he represents himself in these drafts to be living at Constantinople, and I accepted these drafts purporting to come from Constantinople, but drawn by my servant in my own office—I circulated them through Glyn's and other bankers; there was nothing false—I have been in business six months—I have not discounted in London on bills of this character to the amount of nearly 400,000l., nor had my name on them—I have discounted at Glyn's altogether about 10,000l. on these bills, drawn on me by my servant, accepted by me, and purporting to come from Constantinople; in addition to that, I had the bills printed with "Constantinople" in printed letters—they were printed in London, manufactured in London, and purporting to come from Constantinople—I consider that perfectly, legal.

Q. I want to know if you consider it perfectly honest? A. Are the bills paid or not; that is what I want to know?—I have not an enormous amount out now; this is intended to represent a draft from Constantinople; these (produced) for a couple of thousand are paid, of course; here is the receipt

behind—in addition to this business, he represented himself still to be in Constantinople, drawing on other houses—of course, these bills have been paid; they have been taken up; both have been paid—they are in the hands of Overend and Gurney; but they are not my acceptances; they are only endorsed by me—they are drawn on Reggio, by the prisoner, in the name of Zalmanowicz, and purporting to come from Constantinople; they were endorsed by me, knowing perfectly well that it was all a falsehood; that the prisoner did not live at Constantinople, and that he was my own servant at 1l. a-week—they are perfectly good bills—I do not know whether they are mercantile or not—I did not order him to draw on John Auriol Lever, to the amount of 60,000l. from first to last, with a fictitious name and address—I have given him no directions to draw on Lever; I know, perhaps, that he has done it—I have not received a commission of one per cent on it; he has received it himself, not me—I knew that he was receiving a commission in some cases—I knew that he was receiving the commission on bills which he drew on different houses, and in some I did not—I received no commission, only in my business, not in his—I had no commission whatever—a large amount of bills of this description were not done for me with Lascaridi and Co.; none whatever that I endorsed, drawn by the prisoner—I might have had 100,000l. of different people—I have never, in drawing, represented myself to be of Hull—I have not passed bills from Hull drawn by the prisoner—I never had a man named Geran, engaged in this way, in my employment; he is in Smyrna—I mean to say, that there were not the same kind of transactions with me and Geran as with the prisoner—I did not pension Geran off—I promised the prisoner that he should go to Constantinople, and be started in a firm there—he was not constantly applying to me to go to Constantinople; he was to go as soon as I could—he came into my employment by calling upon me—I did not mention Geran to him—it was arranged that bills should be drawn, signed sometimes by Woolff and sometimes by Zalmanowicz, as soon as I had made up my mind to send him to Constantinople—I cannot tell you the exact date when I and he first came to this agreement; it was not directly he came into my employment; it may have been three or four months after—I did not tell him that Geran had done the same thing—I proposed it—as I was sending him to Constantinople as my agent, I requested him to draw some bills, which he did—I cannot tell you the exact amount, but perhaps 10,000l. or 12,000l.—I never told him what I should do with the bills drawn on bill-heads from Constantinople—I used them, of course, and I suppose he did know what I did with them—I made no arrangement whatever with him—I requested him to draw them—the consideration for it was, that he was to go out to Constantinople as my agent, for which he would get 600l. or 700l. a year—in the meanwhile he was to subsist on 50l. and a suit of clothes now and then—there were cases in which the prisoner drew on other houses, which I endorsed and got discounted, and upon which I got a commission—it was not so with Lascaridi and Co.—I know nothing about a system of exchanging bills with them—I know nothing of Jackson and Co.—I know Baker, Adam, and Co.; John, James, and Charles Gentill—I do not know Stephens and Sons—I have done business with most of those, with bills drawn by the prisoner—I have not in all cases obtained a commission; I have in one or two, perhaps—when he first came, the arrangement was that I should send him to Hull—I had a great quantity of calls, and I said whichever suited me better, Hull or Newcastle—he was not Woolff and Co. of Hull—there were no drafts from Hull that I discounted or endorsed—I may have seen some

bills of Woolff and Co. of Hull, I had nothing to do with them—I do not know Woolff and Co., I only know Woolff—I know of one instance only in which the prisoner was represented as Woolff of Hull, and then I had nothing to do with the matter—I kept him afterwards, and did not part with him—I know a great many Theodori and Co.'s, of Constantinople; there is no correspondent of mine of that name.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Were these green bills drawn by the prisoner all commercial bills? A. Yes; with the exception of one or two, they were not accommodation bills—they generally represented goods or securities—each of those bills, though drawn by the prisoner, bore, besides my name and his, the acceptor's name—he was never the acceptor of any of them, not a farthing—with the exception of one or two, the acceptances were those of merchants with whom I had bond fide transactions—all, except one or two, represented goods, and were transactions between me and merchants—none of the bills bearing the prisoner's name as drawer, are untaken up at this moment; every one has been paid or taken up—among bill-brokers, there is no additional value attached to a bill drawn abroad—they rely on the acceptor, and not the drawer—there was never any other arrangement between me and the prisoner than that he should act as I have named—he was to go to Constantinople, not in partnership with me, but only as consigning goods as my agent—I have no partner, either at home or abroad—I have dissolved partnership.

WILLIAM BRADLEY . I am cashier at Messrs. Sapte's bank, Lombard-street—the prisoner presented these two cheques to me for payment—I cashed them—I gave him a 1,000l. note, 84,260, January 5th, 1859; two 300l. notes, 60,087-8, January 26th, 1859; and 50l.

HENRY HOLMAN SMITH . I am a clerk in the Issue department, Bank of England. On 8th April, these two 300l. notes (produced) Nos. 60,087-8, dated 26th January, 1859, were produced to me for gold, to the best of my belief, by the prisoner, and he got the money—on the same afternoon, this 1,000l. note 84,260, January 5th, 1859, (produced) was presented, and cashed by a person named Gimmingham.

WILLIAM FREDERICK KERBY . I am clerk to Bull & Co. bullion dealers, of Cheapside. On 16th April the prisoner came and handed me these notes for the purchase of Prussian thaler notes, and 130 silver thalers—I paid him the difference in English money.

GEORGE GODFREY BAUM . I am cashier to Messrs. Baum, Son, & Co. of Lombard-street. On 16th April, the prisoner purchased of me Prussian coin and notes, and gave me in exchange two notes of 100l. each.

HENRY JOY (Policeman, 388 A). In consequence of information, I went to the prisoner's lodging, 22, Alfred-street, Tottenham-court-road, and took him in custody—I told him it was for robbing his employer of a large amount of money—he said that he knew nothing about it—I did not mention his employer's name; I did not know it—I asked him the reason he did not go to the office, and he said because he was ill.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you take a book from him? A. The inspector took it.

CHARLES WEBB (Police-Inspector, C). On Sunday afternoon, 17th April, I went to the prisoner's lodging in Alfred-street, searched the bedroom, and found this pocket-book (produced) concealed under the fire-place, containing 640l. in notes and money—these papers were in the pocket-book—here is a 100l. note, 99,968, January 5th, 1859; a 50l. note, 86,500, November 6th, 1858; nine 50l. notes, from 91,001 to 91,009; a 20l. note, 11,258; three 5l. notes, 84,042-44; and a 5l. note, 42,060.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you any letters? A. Yes; here are hundreds in these bundles (produced)—I do not think there is any letter which has been taken out of this book; but the bills and papers have been many times overhauled by me, as there is 1,000l. missing—no paper has been taken out of that pocket-book which is not there now—these are the memorandums that were in the pocket-book with the notes, and no others.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE to V. ARACHTINGI. Q. Were all these notes printed by your directions? A. They were—this small note to Reggio is my writing; it does not refer to this matter at all, but to a previous transaction—it is not the note that the prisoner was to have delivered that day, that was in pencil—the direction of this is in pencil—I used to write a great many notes in pencil—this may be the note (looking at it) but I cannot swear that it is, because I wrote several letters of the same kind—the letter I gave him for Reggio was not in relation to this transaction.

HENRY GIMMINGHAM . I am a clerk in the Issue Department, Bank of England. In the afternoon of 15th April, I changed a 1,000l. note for a person who gave the name of Woolff—the address is on the note; I think it is 29, Austin-friars—I gave him ten 50l. notes, and five 100l. notes, Nos. 99,968 to 99,972, dated 5th June, 1858.


The JURY expressed their unqualified disapprobation of the way in which the prosecutor's business had been conducted, in which opinion THE COURT concurred.

Judgment respited.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-521
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

521. GEORGE LEDSHAM (19) , Feloniously, and whilst employed under the Post Office, stealing a post letter, containing a 5l. bank note, the property of the Postmaster-General.

MR. TINDAL ATKINSON conducted the Prosecution.

ROBERT CULLUM CLARKE . I am a commercial traveller, and live at Norwich. On 25th March, I wrote a letter to my son, addressed, "Robert Samuel Clarke, 3, Railway-place, Kingsland, London"—I first wrote a small note, and wrapped it round the envelope; say a quarter of a sheet of paper—I then enclosed it in another large envelope Like this (produced) which is out of the same packet, sealed it with a large red seal, and posted it myself at three minutes before 9 in the evening—the London post leaves at 9, and I was before the time—my son made inquiries before I knew that the note was lost—I had taken these particulars (produced) of the note—this is the note (produced) it corresponds in the number, date, and value.

Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. What day of the week was the 25th? A. Friday, and I wrote to my son on the Sunday.

JOSEPH CHRISTIE . I am a clerk in the Norwich Post-Office—it is my duty to forward the letters to London for the evening post—I do not recollect the evening of 21st March, but it was my duty to forward all letters I received that evening—I took up the letters for Kingsland, and put them into the district mail-bag, ready to be forwarded.

WILLIAM PLUMB . I am sorter in the up railway carriage to London. On 25th March, it was part of my duty to put the letters into the north eastern bag, and dispatch it, and I did so.

JOHN HOLLAND . I am a mail driver—I convey the mail bag from Shore-ditch to the district offices—I conveyed two of them on 22d March.

SAMUEL HYBARD . I am a sorter at the north-eastern office—I assisted in sorting the letters on the morning of the 20th, and despatched them rom the district-office.

Cross-examined. Q. Where is the district branch office? A. In Church-street, Bethnal-green—if the mail is late the letters go to the General Port Office before they are delivered—the bill will prove whether they went there, first on this occasion; but I believe they went to the district office.

STEPHEN HENRY HARMAN . I am stamper at the north-eastern branch of the Post Office—this paper, dated 26th March, bears my signature—I received the letters that morning—this is the bill the mail-guard brings with him; I signed it.

Cross-examined. Q. Is it usual to say the time? A. We sometimes do—the time is not put down here; but these bills only come in the morning; the first thing, at 5 o'clock—I could not receive it from the chief office—this satisfies me that it came to me direct—I received two bills, one from Ipswich and one from Norwich, every morning—I am sure that, through the month of March, there was no morning on which I received one bag only—the two bags would not be one Ipswich and one Norwich, but one Ipswich and the other Peterborough.

COURT. Q. Look at that paper again, and tell us whether you are able to say if on that particular morning you received a Norwich bag. A. I do not know; that forms no portion of my duty; that rests with the sorter entirely.

WILLIAM PLUMB (re-examined). The Peterborough bag would contain the Norwich letters; they are conveyed in a bag labelled "Peterborough Sorting Office, N.E. carriage"—that bag would contain the letters received from the towns on the line.

CHARLES BRIDGES . I was mail-driver on 26th March—I conveyed the first dispatch from the Hackney district office that morning.

Cross-examined. Q. At what time? A. Five minutes past 7.

WILLIAM CHAPMAN . I am principal letter-carrier to the Hackney district office—I was on duty on the morning of 26th March, when the first dispatch arrived—it came from the north-east district office—any letter for High-street, Kingsland, would go to the Amhurst-road district—the name of the letter-carrier there is Thomas Clark—the prisoner was employed by me occasionally for about sixteen months—it was his practice to come in the morning to endeavour to get a job if any of the men were ill.

Cross-examined. Q. Had you a very high opinion of him? A. Yes.

THOMAS CLARK . I have been for a year and three-quarters a letter-carrier at the north-eastern district, Hackney—the prisoner was employed there as extra letter-carrier—it was part of my duty, to deliver letters at Railway-place, Kingsland, of a morning—I do not know who delivered them in the afternoon; but I delivered them at 12 o'clock—Mr. Worledge sometimes delivered them in the evening, and I have known the prisoner do it sometimes—I saw him at the office on the morning of 26th March; he was sitting by my side while the General Post letters were being sorted—about four of us, who were going the same road, left the office between 7 and 8; the prisoner was one; he left with me—I begun at Kingsland-gate, and he accompanied me—I asked him at Ridley-row, which is opposite to Railway-place, to deliver four or five letters for me at Railway-place—I cannot say that I read them; I know there was one for Clark, Railway-place, I believe it was Mrs. Clark, and one for Beresford—he crossed to the opposite side—I went about my business, and he shortly afterwards rejoined me—I asked him if he had delivered the letters I gave him, he said "Yes;" and that he was going home to his breakfast, and afterwards to see Mr. Chapman, the charge taker.

Cross-examined. Q. How long have you known him? A. About a year and a half; since the time he came into the office—it was not my duty to get anybody else to deliver my letters; I beg pardon for doing so; I was very heavy that morning, and we help one another—I first heard about the letter being missed on Monday evening, when Mr. Clark came to me—the prisoner often sits next to me—I have not lately dropped a letter by accident—I did about seven years ago, but never since—I mean that I have never found out that I had dropped one—I only know that I have finished my day's work when I find I have no letters left—I have no list of letters.

ROBERT SAMUEL CLARK . I live at 3, Railway-place, Kingsland—I did not receive a letter from my father, containing a 5l. note, on 26th March.

MARTHA CLARK . I am the wife of the last witness. On Saturday, 26th March, about a quarter to 9, I remember being at home, and at the front door—I saw the postman Clark in the middle of the road, but on the opposite side of the way—the prisoner was with him, and I saw Clark give him some letters; two blue ones and two white—one of the envelopes corresponds with this produced—one large white envelope had a red seal, which attracted my attention—the prisoner came over and delivered me a letter in this envelope (produced)—it was from my sister—he delivered no letter to me from Norwich.

Cross-examined. Q. Will you undertake to say that he gave the prisoner four letters? A. Yes; I expected to receive a letter from Norwich, and was rather surprised that it did not come; but I said nothing about it; I did not speak to the prisoner—I knew that this letter was from my sister, before I opened it; I knew it was not the Norwich letter—the seal of the letter I saw was as large as this, but red instead of blue—I was standing at the door looking out for the postman; it is a wide road; there is a cab stand there, and they were standing in the middle of the road.

MR. ROBINSON to K C. CLARKE. Q. Was the letter you sent, stamped blue? A. If it was, the whole of the stamp was covered up with red—we have envelopes with red and blue, twenty-five in a package, and I take them out as they come; but whatever colour it was, I covered it up with sealing wax that it might not appear.

HENRY MILBURN . I keep the George IV. Old-street-road. I have known Charles Barr four or five years—he came on Saturday, 26th March, between 8 and 9 in the evening, I think, with a person resembling the prisoner; in whose presence Barr asked me if I could oblige a friend of his with change for a 5l. note? I said, "Yes;" Barr turned round, I think, but I cannot say, and then handed me this note (produced)—I put my initials on it, but he did not; and I told him I should write his name on it—I put the change on the counter, Barr took it up, and they went away together—I have no recollection of changing any other note for Barr.

Cross-examined. Q. Did Barr order some soda water and brandy? A. Yes.

CHARLES BARR . I live at 18, Ed ward-street, Shepherd's walk, City-road, and have been a barman, but am out of a situation, and have no regular employment—I have known the prisoner some years—I saw him on Saturday evening, 26th March, in the parlour of the Bee-hive, public-house, New-north-road—the prisoner called me out in front of the road, gave me something to drink, and asked me if I could get him change for a 5l. note? I said "Yes; I can at Mr. Milburn's over the way"—we went

outside together; there was a female waiting outside—we all three went to Mr. Milburn's; the prisoner and I went in, and the female waited outside—I asked Mr. Milburn if he could change a friend of mine a 5l. note; he said "Yes;" the prisoner handed me the note, and I handed it to Mr. Milburn, who said that he should put my name upon it; I said "All right;" and he put the change down on the counter—we had a bottle of soda-water and brandy; two cigars were called for; one of which was offered to Mr. Milburn, and he took it—we were standing—when we went out, the female was waiting outside—it was then about 9 o'clock—we then went to Grove's Music-hall, and remained about two hours; we then all three walked as far as Hoxton-Church, and I left the prisoner and the female together, and went home.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you know the female? A. No; but I had seen her before—I cannot say how lately—I did not know her perfectly—when the prisoner called me out, that was the first time I had seen him that day—I swear that—I had not asked him to come to me for any purpose—I knew he was employed as a letter-carrier sometimes, but did not know in what district—I do not know much about the part where the letters are delivered, it is some two or three miles off where I live—the Hackney-road commences at Shoreditch church—Old-street does not commence from there, but at the corner of Pitfield-street, or the corner of the Curtain-road—I have been about twelve months out of employment—I have sold goods on commission, and I have saved money during the ten yean that I was in one situation, and six years in another—I was in prison for a week once on remand—a friend of mine had a watch to look at, and he gave it to me to return—I was charged with unlawful possession, but was discharged and made a witness—I have not been engaged in skittle sharping, but eleven years ago I was engaged as a witness against some skittle sharpers where I was barman—there has never been any other charge made against me; no charge of assault—I have sold some things on commission for Mr. Milburn, for Mr. Alexander, an auctioneer, and for Mr. Walton, a county court agent—I get an allowance from my brother, and expect to go to California to him.

MR. ATKINSON. Q. Was the remand at your own request? A. Yes; in order that I might produce the parties from whom I had the watch, and I had the matter explained to the Magistrate's satisfaction.

WILLIAM EASTBLOCK . I live at 4, Curzon-street, Hoxton—on 26th March I was in the Bee-Hive parlour, New North-road, with Charles Barr—between 8 and 9 o'clock the prisoner came to the door, opened it, and called Barr out—he went out, came back to fetch his hat, and went out again with it—I do not think the prisoner could hear what he said.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you before the Magistrate? A. No; I was first spoken to about it on Wednesday last—I am pretty intimate with Barr.

WILLIAM SMEE . I am a police-officer attached to the post-office—I traced this 5l. note to Barr—I traced it from the Bank of England to Milburn, and to him through his brewer—I afterwards went to the house of the prisoner's father, a baker, of 25, Plummer-street, City-road—I left for a short time, and kept my eye on the house—the prisoner went in, and I with him—I asked him if his name was George Ledsham—he said "Yes"—I said, "Do you know a man named Charles Barr?"—he said "Yes"—I said I wished to make inquiry of him respecting a 5l. note he had got changed at Mr. Milburn's, Old-street-road, on the night of 26th March—

he said "Yes, I was there with Barr, and he changed a 5l. note, but I had nothing to do with it"—I asked him if he delivered letters in the Kingsland-road—he said that he had done so, but now delivered them in another walk close to the Kingsland-road—I told him he must go to the solicitor to the Post-office and give some explanation about the note—he went there, told the same story, and I took him in custody.

GUILTY .— Four Years Penal Servitude.

FOURTH COURT.—Saturday, May 14th, 1659.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Seventh Jury.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-522
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

522. ALFRED BOYDELL LAMBE (48), was again indicted for Embezzling the sums of 1l. 14s. 6d., 1l. 12s., and 1l. 16s., of John Jones, his master. (See page 100).

MESSRS. GIFFARD and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

SYDNEY SMITH . I live at 21, Upper Fillmore-place, Kensington—in August 1858 I purchased some beer and ale of Mr. Jones—I did not know the prisoner Lambe—I paid for those goods on 21st October last—I paid the money in the counting-house—the person to whom I paid it gave me this receipt—that was at the Royal Exchange vaults.

Cross-examined by MR. LEWIS. Q. Was any one present at the time you paid it? A. I cannot say—there was no concealment at all; it was paid quite openly.

HENRY HAMPER . I live at 3, Upper Eaton-place, Haverstock-hill—in December I purchased some sherry of Mr. Jones—I paid for it at the time I bought it, to Mr. Lambe, and he signed these receipts in the counting-house.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you recollect if any one was sitting at the same desk? A. Nobody—nobody was in the counting-house with Lambe.

BLACKALL JOSEPH YARROW . I live at 5, Church-row, Kennington—in December I purchased some port wine of Mr. Jones—I paid for it to Mr. Lambe—I went to the counting-house, and he gave me this receipt—the bill was afterwards sent.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you recollect whether anybody was present when you paid? A. I do not know—I did not notice.

JOHN JONES . These receipts are in Mr. Lambe's writing—(Read "Bought of John Jones, 3 dozen of ale, at 5s. 6d.—16s. 6d.; 4 dozen bottles, 4s. 6d.; hampers, 6s. August 20th, 3 dozen ditto, 14s.—1l. 14s. 6d. Received, B. Lambe."—"Bought of John Jones: 1 dozen pale sherry, 32s., and bottles, 2s.—1l. 12s. Received, A. B. Lambe."—"Mr. Yarrow, bought of John Jones: 1 dozen port—Mr. Yarrow to Mr. Jones, 1l. 16s. Received, Lambe."—I am a wine and spirit dealer at the Royal Exchange vaults—these are the transfers of the three licenses to me by the prisoner—the prisoner was in my service in 1857—I first paid him salary in December of that year, and from that time I have continued regularly to pay him 4l. a week—his business was to receive monies, and to pay them to me—he has never accounted to me for 1l. 14s. 6d. received from Mr. Sydney Smith—the prisoner has never given me 1l. 16s. received on 22d December from Mr. Yarrow, or 1l. 12s. received from Mr. Hamper on 22d December.—Until certain communications were made to me, I was not aware of the first of these monies having been received—it was this investigation that led to the charge being made against the prisoner—in the proper course of our

business a receipt ought not to have been given other than from the receipt book—I have the receipt book here—this is one of them—it is kept in the counting-house, within the immediate reach of Lambe, supposing him to be there—I have looked through this receipt book—these are counterfeits of the sums which I have mentioned—in the ordinary course of things I west over it, to see what had been received on my behalf—I initialed the counterfoils—I was aware of monies that had been received besides those appearing on the account—Lambe made an application to me about last Christmas—he admitted that he had received monies, and it was to be deducted from his 4l. a week—that was about November—I was exceedingly annoyed, and strictly forbade his doing it—I have no doubt that this was before 26th December, 1858—when I forbade it he made no remark—when I employed Robinson to go through the accounts, I put him in an office by himself; the other persons knew it.

JAMES WILLIAM ROBINSON . I remember being employed by Mr. Jones to go through the books—I was in an office away from the other clerks while I was making them out—Mr. Lambe came round to me and looked over to see what I was doing—he looked over a list of debts which I had made out, which appeared to be due to Mr. Jones on the books—amongst them were Yarrow, Smith, and Hamper—he came and looked over this, pointed them out, and told me not to send the accounts—I said, "Why?"—he said, "Don't send them"—I said, "Well, Mr. Lambe, if you have the money, put your initials to them, and there will be an end of it"—he said, "No, you do it; but don't send the account"—after I had had that conversation, I made a communication to Mr. Jones; in consequence of what Mr. Jones told me, I made out a separate account for him to post himself.

COURT to JOHN JONES. Q. Had you negociated with the prisoner for a partnership originally? A. Originally; that negociation went off; the arrangement which I finally made with him left him a claim of some interest in the business, so that the extent of what he obtained was dependent upon the net success of the business—this form of remuneration was to be given in the shape of salary; that was the result of the stipulation—this arrangement that was made did not in any way alter his relation to me as far as regards his duties as a servant, or with regard to the monies that he received—I have asked him about the accounts in general—these three accounts appeared in the ordinary way in the day-book; I have it here—they are in the prisoner's writing—Robinson made those red ink marks; those lines mean that the order was executed—in looking at this book, I see that Mr. Yarrow had not only ordered, but has had the goods mentioned here—these entries are posted into the sold day-book; that is here—that folio in red ink will tell you the number—any one who receives orders can put them into the rough day-book—the entries from the rough order-book ought to be transferred to this book in the course of a day or two; in the ordinary course entries ought to find their way into this book the same day or a day after—I engaged Robinson from time to time to look after my books—I engaged him in March—he occasionally sat in a separate office; but sometimes I gave him other work; it would be his duty to enter orders—suppose the money for an order was paid, then that money would appear in the printed receipt-books—that is the book into which it ought to have gone—I have left the books more with the accountant.

COURT to J. W. ROBINSON. Q. Have you got the ledger? A. I have—that is my posting up; they are all entered from the rough day-book into the sold day-book—upon looking at this, I can see immediately what the order is, and

can see whether it has been executed, and I can tell whether I am to enter it to cash or to credit—because there is no cash, I expect to find it in the cash-book—this is the counterfoil of the receipt—when I examined them I did not find cash, and in consequence of that I entered them to credit.

Prisoner to JOHN JONES. Q. In the whole course of the twelve months can you show one that I entered in the order-book. A. Not that I know of—you did not distinctly refuse to my knowledge—you did not certainly give receipts in my presence to people; you might have to the accountant.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did the ordinary servants do so? A. All gave receipts; but Mr. Lambe never did, to my knowledge—the receipts given by my other servants were in the form, "Received by John Jones"—I believe there are receipts in existence in which there is signed "A. B. Lambe, for John Jones"—it is impossible for me to produce a single receipt, in which he has signed his name, Lambe for Jones; I have no such paper—I did not subpoena Mr. Stevenson; he is too much of a gentleman—I remember the settlement of November 18th between myself and the prisoner—he told me himself that he had sold some wines to a Rev. Mr. Edgil; I have no doubt that was deducted from his allowance—the prisoner was also debited in that settlement which he had received from a Mr. Grosvenor, 1l. 1s.; which he had received from Mr. Chittenden, 14s.; from a Mr. Black, for a bottle of sherry, 2s. 6d.; for another bottle of sherry, 2s. 6d., making altogether 4l. 6s.—I have no entry of these in a book, merely on a slip of paper; it was by his statement 2l. about them that this debiting took place—he admitted them afterwards; he never denied them—I remember the name of Mr. Edmunds, 1l. 1s.—I remember Mr. Lambe and I having a dispute as to whether I had received that 1l. 7s.—I remember that that; settlement was subsequently disposed of; that I should supply the deficiency, and I should pay half, and he pay half—Mr. Lambe complained of the want of the rough daily cash-book, and said if that had been kept according to his advice, that these mistakes would not occur; we have frequently had discussions about mistakes discovered, and rectified by me as well as by him—on 14th January, 1859, there was 16l. which had not been drawn; on that occasion he desired me to debit him with a sovereign that had been handed to him on account of the 4l.—the 4l. was not deducted, it was left open; it was not settled then—I gave him a check for 5l.—I did not know at that time that these sums had been received by Lambe—I did not hear it from Robinson before the 14th, or before the bills came in; he did not call my attention to it before the 20th January—Robinson finished making out the accounts about 15th January—it was decidedly after the 25th December—I was looking over the accounts while Robinson was making them out—I posted every one of them; my attention was called to all these, Hamper, Smith, and Yarrow; it was not at that time that Selwood made a communication to me—I do not remember when it was that Robinson told me that Mr. Lambe had made him acquainted with the facts—I will swear I do not remember—he did not say, when he made this communication, "Mr. Lambe told me of this weeks ago"—he said that Mr. Lambe had told him he had received the money, and told him to put his initials to it—I do not remember when this was—I have seen this memorandum since; it was in the book-keeper's possession—I cannot say when this was shewn to me—it was late in January or early in February—we commenced taking stock on 20th December; the stock was left unpaid for the express purpose of allowing Robinson to make out the accounts—he first showed me this document at the end of January, when all the accounts

had been sent in—I did not strike the accounts out—this it a summary of the bills; this is the paper that was made use of in the month of January—notwithstanding Robinson's telling me that the money had been received by Lambe, I told him to send in the accounts—I was not certain as to dates—I myself put my initials to Yarrow, Smith, and Hamper's accounts, for a special reason, after I had seen Mr. Lambe's initials to the amounts—I sent the bills to them, although Lambe had received the money—I have the day-book here—it has been produced—this, "Mr. Sydney Smith, 1l. 14s. 6d." is in Mr. Lambe's writing—that is an indication that he received that from Mr. S. Smith—I should say that meant Mr. Sydney Smith—that indicates that the money has been paid—I have a book which I call my private diary—I have entries in it in respect to Smith, Hamper, and Yarrow, in my writing—the entries were made on 18th January—at the time I made the settlement with Mr. Lambe, in the month of January, I had this book open—this entry about the 16l. was not there at the time—this is my own private memorandum book—the money that I say he received was two fives and two ones, which makes 12l.—I did not know from Selwood that he had made up the accounts which were given him by Mr. Lambe—Selwood did not tell me that these three amounts had been paid to Mr. Lambe—I have not settled accounts with Selwood of money which Lambe has received—when I have been settling accounts, I have not said Mr. Lambe has received so much—I heard Selwood say, in Lambe's presence, that he had been an old servant—that was about the 5th or 6th of January—I thought at first, that Selwood was in fault about the money, but I found that although he had sent the receipt, Lambe had had the money.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. You mentioned originally that you discovered that Lambe had received money without giving the proper receipts; was that on the occasion when you had this settlement? A. Yes—this (produced) is what we call the rough day-book—the orders from day to day are entered into it—the first date of Mr. Smith's account is 20th August; the date of the other is 20th August—the goods supplied were, three dozen pints of Scotch ale, bottled—the other book which has been produced, was kept on Selwood's desk—Lambe had full access to it—supposing the money to have been paid on 21st October, it ought to have appeared under that date in the printed receipt-book—it was entered there under the date of 5th January—that was about the time that Robinson was investigating the accounts—I made these entries in my private diary on 20th January—at that time I had given the cheque that has been produced to Lambe—I gave this cheque (looking at it) on 11th January—at the time I gave it, I was not aware that he had received the amounts from Yarrow, Smith, and Hamper—I should say my loss was about 78l., stock alone, by somebody—I think it is more than that—it is 125l. in money.

JAMES WILLIAM ROBINSON , cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Are you still in Mr. Jones' employment? A. I am—I believe the stock was taken on 30th or 31st January—I had nothing to do with the stock taking—I made out the accounts—Mr. Jones, Mr. Lambe, and Mr. Selwood took stock—as soon as I could get the books I made out that summary—the books were made up at Christmas, that is in my writing—while I was engaged in making it out Mr. Lambe came in and out of the office—this 1l. 14s. 6d. was originally entered in the books as goods sold in the prisoner's writing—in reference to that Mr. Lambe said to me, "Don't send that account."—I said, "Why;"—he said, "Don't send it"—I said, "If you have the money put your initials to it".—he said, "You put it, but don't

send the account"—the same thing was done to Hamper's and Yarrow's account—I never showed it to Mr. Jones; it was open so that he could have seen it. I had no conversation with Mr. Jones about these items—I asked him if I was to send the accounts, and he said, "Make them all up, and bring them to me."—I do not think I called his attention to these five—I made them all out, gave them to him, and he posted them—Mr. Lambe did receive money occasionally—it was the duty of every one who received cash to pass printed receipts—I did not know of his making that entry about the amount received from Mr. Sydney Smith—I know nothing at all about it—Mr. Selwood was in the office the same as myself—they all had access to the office—I was never present when Mr. Lambe and Mr. Jones had a settlement of the accounts.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Did you make out the accounts partly from this book? (produced). A. That was the ground work—had I seen that entry I should have posted the account—I should most decidedly say that the entry was was not there.



Before Mr. Recorder.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-523
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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523. CHARLES GRANT (18) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Francis Price, at East Ham, and stealing therein 4lbs. 11oz. of sugar, value 1s. 8d.; the property of the G uardians of the Poor of the parish of St. George's-in-the-East; having been before convicted, to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-524
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown

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524. CHARLES FRENCH (18), and THOMAS. QUINCE (17) , Robbery on James Parking, and stealing from him a coat, value 5s.; and monies, value 2s. 10 1/2 d., his property.

MR. KEMP conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES PARKING . I live at 12, Henry-street, Portland-town, and am a carpenter—on 18th April, I was at work at Cornhill—I left there about 5 o'clock, and went by the 8 o'clock train from Fenchurch-street to Barking-road station—I then went to the Railway Tavern, opposite the station to seek employment—I went to find some previous shopmates—I stopped some time, and had a pint of beer there—I then went to another public-house—I can recognise French as being there—I can't identify Quince—we got into conversation and I treated them to drink—French offered me a lodging and I left the public-house in his company a little after 11 o'clock—soon after we got out of the house—as we were going round the corner of a short street, he asked me what I intended doing, or something like that—I asked him what he meant—he said they intended having what I had got—while he was saying this two parties came behind, and each took hold of one of my shoulders—French then came round, put his hand in my left hand trousers pocket, pulled it out with half-a-crown, and 4 1/2 d.—I believe French then went away and left the other men behind—they pulled off my coat and I fell forward—they then ran away—I fell down and cut my thumb and put the joint out—I hallowed "Police!" directly, and ran to the road—a policeman came up and enquired what had taken place—I told him and

gave him a description of the men—I saw my coat at the station—Quince had it on there—I had been drinking, but was perfectly conscious of what I was doing.

Cross-examined by MR. GENT for QUINCE. Q. When was it you first saw them? A. In the second public-house—I saw French drinking—I cannot recognise the other man—there were five people there—it was 8 o'clock when I went from Fenchurch-station—between 5 and 8 o'clock I went in search of employment to several parties in town—I met them in the street—I had some drink before I got into the train—I only went to one public-house then—I had been to several during the day—I got to Barking-row about half-past 8—it was after nine when I left the railway-station—from half-past 9 till 11 I was in the other public-house—I had one pint of ale there—I had had two pints just before my dinner—I think I have given the same account to-day as I did before the Magistrate—I Have received 1l. 15s—I have heard Quince say that he bought the coat of Somebody on the spot—I did not hear him say so when he was taken—It was not till after I had received the money that I heard him say that—I gave a receipt for the 1l. 15s.—I agreed to take no further proceedings—when the three men were upon me I did not call out, but directly they left me I did—the reason I did not call out was because I was in fear that I might get hurt more—the hurting of the thumb was quite an accident.

KEMP. Q. I suppose you could have earned more than 1l. 15s. a week? A. Yes—Quince's father came on the Tuesday, and he said, "You had better take a little, and we will give you a trifle".—I said, "I shall do no such thing."—they came again on Sunday—I said, "I will have nothing to do with it".

COURT. Q. Is the result of it that you took 1l. 15s.? A. Yes—Lary signed the paper—I made a cross—I cannot write.

JAMES STRICKLAND (policeman, K 32)—I remember being in Roscoe-town on the night of 18th April—inspector nightingale was with me—I saw a mob of people in front of the Walmer castle—the prosecutor was there—he made a complaint to me—he had been drinking, but I believe he knew what he was about—he was wounded in the thumb—from circumstances that came to my notice I took the prisoners into custody in that neighbourhood—the prosecutor identified French; he said, "That is the man who robbed me of my money."—Quince had a coat on which the prosecutor identified as his—Quince on his way to the station, said, "I have done wrong to buy the coat".

Cross-examined. Q. Is the pocket-book that was in the coat pocket as night? A. The prosecutor took the pocket-book—I did not hear any cries—I had not seen anything of this before I saw the people there—there were between fifty and sixty there at the time I went up—the prosecutor came from the crowd—his thumb was hurt—at that time Quince was wearing the coat—when I came up to the crowd I saw Quince walking towards the back of the public-house, about fifty yards from where the scuffle occurred—Inspector Nightingale is not here—he did not see it all.

FRENCH. Q. Did you ever know any wrong of me? A. No; I have not known you long.

JAMES STRICKLAND (Re-examined). I should say from five to six minutes elapsed between my being called upon to interfere and my taking Quince into custody; not longer—I took him fifty yards from the place where the robbery was committed.

Prisoner French, to PARKING. Q. Where did ever you see me before I was at the police-station? A. At the bar—I feel convinced you are the man—I never drank out of your pot that I am aware of.

QUINCE received a good character. NOT GUILTY .

FRENCH GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.


Before Mr. Recorder.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-524a
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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524. MARY ANN WHITE (28) , Stealing 1 watch and 1 watch guard, value 4l., of Thomas Holmes.

MR. BEST conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS HOLMES . I am a labourer, of Plumstead. On 3d April I was proceeding from Woolwich to Plumstead—I met the prisoner, and went with her to a house in Rope-yard-walk, Woolwich—I went to a room up stairs, and fastened the door—I had a watch in my breeches pocket, with a chain—I pulled it out, wound it up, and put it in my pocket again—I put my breeches on the bed, and after fastening the door I went to bed, and went to sleep—I awoke about 5 o'clock, and the prisoner was gone, and my watch and chain—there was nobody else in the room.

Prisoner. Q. What time in the morning did I meet you? A. You did not meet me in the morning—I can swear you are the woman—when I awoke my trousers were on the bed—I cannot say how long I slept—I went to the police and told them the case—I did not see you in the Market-place.

MARY POLLARD . I am the wife of William Pollard—we live in the Rope-yard-walk, at Woolwich—I know the prisoner—she came to my house between 12 and 1 o'clock with the last witness—they did not go up stairs; they went to a room on the ground floor—I saw them go in the room, and I said to the prosecutor, "If you please, oblige me by locking the door inside," and I heard the bolt go—no one could have access to the room, but they could get out when they thought proper.

SAMUEL TABER (Policeman, R 239). I met the prosecutor on the morning of 3d April, between 5 and 6 o'clock—he made a statement to me, and I went to a house in Rope-yard-walk—I did not find anything there—I asked him if he should know the prisoner—he said, "Yes;" and in going along High-street he said, "There is the woman," and I took her, in custody—she denied that she had been in the house with him.

Prisoner. Q. Did you not see me at 3 o'clock in the morning in a coffee-shop, and did you not see me again at 4 o'clock? A. Yes.

Prisoner's Defence. I am not the woman; I am innocent. I never slept with this man, nor was in any house with him.


She was also charged with having been twice before convicted.

JAMES RAPSEY . I produce a certificate of a conviction (Read: "Kingston on Thames, April, 1858. Mary Caig, Convicted on her own confession of larceny. Confined Three Months")—I was present—the prisoner is the person.

THOMAS LEVI (Police-sergeant, V 8). I produce a certificate (Read: "Wandsworth, June, 1858. Mary Caig, Convicted on her own confession of stealing a sovereign. Confined Six Months")—the prisoner is the person—I had her in custody.

GUILTY.— Confined Twelve Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-525
VerdictsGuilty > unknown
SentencesImprisonment > penal servitude

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525. WILLIAM SMITH (40) , Stealing, on 27th April, 15 lbs. of bacon, 1 ham, and other articles, 1l. 16s. and 65l. 4s. 6d. in money; also, on 30th April, 7l. 15s. in money, of David Galer, his master.

MR. SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.

ALFRED GALER . My father carries on business as a grocer and cheese-monger at Woolwich—the prisoner had been in my father's employ as an assistant for two months—on 30th April I was in the same shop with the prisoner—I observed him do something behind the counter, and I heard a noise at the till which excited my suspicion—I went to the prisoner, and asked him what he had put in his boot—he seemed confused—I sent for my father, and we searched the prisoner's boot, and found in it 1l. 3s.; but before pulling the boot off, the prisoner said, "I know what you want; I am guilty"—we sent for a constable, and the constable asked him if that was his boot—he said it was, and he had put the money in the boot, which was his master's property—he asked him if he had anything else—he said, "Yes;" and he handed him a packet from his breast—it was opened, and it contained between 5l. and 6l. in gold and silver—I went to the prisoner's lodging with the inspector the next day—I saw the inspector find some bacon and cheese, and other things, and some money—the bacon and other things were exactly of the same description as the property in my father's shop—to the best of my belief it was my father's property.

Cross-examined by MR. LEWIS. Q. When did you last take stock? A. On the day after this occurred—that shop had only been opened two months—I have heard my father say that he has missed bacon and other things in that shop.

DAVID GALER . I took the prisoner into my employ in February—I agreed to give him a sovereign a week—he spoke about his circumstances, and said he had no money, and I gave him a few shillings—I placed him in that shop as foreman—I was called to that shop by my son on 30th April—when I got there the prisoner said, "I know what you want; I am guilty"—I saw his boot taken off, and the money found in it—I saw the packet given up by the prisoner to the officer—the officer produced to me some bacon and ham, and other things, from the prisoner's lodgings—they were the same sort at the property I have—I know the amount of stock which I had when I opened that shop; and, making allowance for what has been sold there, I have discovered a deficiency to the amount of 300l.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you mean in that particular shop you have sustained a loss of 300l.? A. Yes—the value of my stock when I opened it was between 400l. and 500l.—I am always replenishing it—I can't say that the stock is always to the amount of 500l.—there were two other persons in that shop besides the prisoner—I had missed property there, and employed persons to watch the shop—the prisoner was never seen to take any to the articles—when he produced the packet of money from his breast he did not say that that was his wife.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Was there a paper found on some of the articles? A. There was part of a side of bacon and some things in my shop with a paper on them, written, "Paid"—they have not been claimed by any one.

MR. LEWIS. Q. Was the prisoner a cheesemonger on his own account before you took him? A. I heard that he had been, about three yean ago.

EDWARD BOURKE (Police Inspector R). I went to the shop and found the prisoner there, and Mr. Galer, he gave the prisoner in custody for stealing the money found in his boot—I saw the money on the floor—I asked the prisoner what he had to say to the charge—he said, "I am guilty;" I found

1l. 3s. 6d. on the floor—I asked him if he had any more, and he pulled a parcel from his breast—I said, "I suppose this contains coppers;" I found that contained gold and silver to the amount of between 5l. and 6l.; I asked him where he lived—he gave his address—I went to the address the next day and found his wife there; I found cheese, bacon, butter, and other things there, and in a box under the bed, I found two bags, one containing 59l. in gold, and the other 6l. 4s. 6d. in silver—I have got that property here.

Cross-examined. Q. Did not the prisoner's wife claim that money? A. She never said a word on that occasion to me—I don't know that she has since claimed it as her money—the prisoner has not claimed that 59l.

GUILTY Three Years Penal Servitude.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-526
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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526. HENRY ARCHER ILETT (19) , Stealing a watch, value 3l., of George Thurgood, from his person.

GEORGE THURGOOD . I live near Soho-square—on Good Friday I was on Blackheath; I was at the back of a crowd, I felt a tug at my waistcoat, and found my watch was gone—I turned and saw the prisoner near me; he saw me looking at him, and he ran away—I followed him and cried, "Stop thief;" and he threw the watch in some grass, a young man picked it up and gave it me—I saw it picked up—I am quite confident the prisoner is the person; I did not lose sight of him one moment—this is my watch.

Cross-examined by MR. SHARPE. Q. Are you rather a sporting character? A. No; there were some donkey races going on; I was looking at them—there were a great many people; I was standing at the back of the crowd—I dare say it was three hundred yards from where the prisoner was stopped; he ran all that distance—there were not a great number of persons running after him; he walked off at first, two or three yards before he began to run—it was in consequence of my looking at him that he began to run; I dare say I was thirty yards behind him when he was caught, because I stopped to pick the watch up—he did not throw the watch away till he was caught—a man caught him—another man gave me the watch—that man is not here—I never saw the prisoner before Good Friday—I have no recollection of having any conversation with the persons about, after this watch had been taken.


The prisoner was further charged with having been before convicted.

THOMAS VENABLES (Policeman, K 141). I know the prisoner; I remember his being convicted at Worship-street, I produce a certificate—(Read; Police-office, Worship-street, October, 1858. Henry Ilett, Convicted on his own confession of stealing a watch.—Confined Six Months)—the prisoner is the person.

GUILTY.— Confined Eighteen Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-527
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

527. OSCAR LEE (20), and JOSEPH LEE (22) , Unlawfully endeavouring to obtain 35l. of Edward Rye by false pretences.

MESSES. SLEIGH and MCDONALD conducted the Prosecution.

EDWARD RYE . I am in the service of Sarah Tighe; a pawnbroker, of Deptford Broadway—about 1 o'clock on 25th March, Joseph Lee came and offered to pledge an Albert chain; he asked 35s. on it; I asked him if it was gold; he said that it was, and that he bought it in Oxford-street, and gave 3l. 10s. for it, and could if necessary produce the invoice—I tested it, and told him it was brass; he made no reply—I sent out for a policeman, but before he arrived the inspector brought Oscar into the shop, who said, "Oh, it is my brother, we are dealers, you can do nothing with us; they are 9

carat gold chains, we bought them at Debenham and Storr's, the day before yesterday, there is the catalogue": throwing it on the counter—they were then given in custody—Oscar said at the station, "We get our living by pledging things for more than they are worth, and we have frequently made 2l. a day at it"—he mentioned a gold chronometer watch which he bought at a sale for 5l. 15s. 6d., and afterwards pledged for 8l.—they both maintained that they were nine carat, chains—Oscar said that they had a similar charge brought against them at Bristol, but they could make nothing of it—the policeman asked them to point out the lot in the catalogue; and they said, "No; it was not these chains we bought at that sale, it was some other goods."

Cross-examined by MR. LEWIS. Q. Where these gold chains assayed? A. Yes; but not in my presence—the one offered to me realized 4 1/2 carats—9 carat is the highest that is sold—the value of the chain would be 13s. or 14s.—35s. was all they asked—I often have more asked on property, than I give—people try to get as much as they can, but we try to give as near as possible the trade value.

WILLIAM RICHARDS . I am an assayer, of 26, Red Lion-street, Clerkenwell; I cut a piece off this piece of gold which was brought to me by the officer, and assayed it, it contained 4 carats 21/2 grains to the ounce, the gold would be worth near 16s. an ounce without the workmanship—I do not know what the chain weighed.

JAMES WESTBROOK (Policeman, R 114). On Friday, 25th March, I was called into Mrs. Tighe's shop, and saw Joseph Lee there; Rye said that he had brought a chain into the shop to pledge, which was a duffer, and was no better than brass—at that moment the inspector brought in Oscar—Joseph told Rye that he did not know his business, that it was 9 carat gold—Oscar pulled this catalogue out of his pocket and said, "Yes; we bought them at Debenham and Storr's, the day before yesterday, there is the catalogue of them" he also said that they were 9 carat gold, and that the pawnbroker did not know his trade—Oscar said that they could do nothing with them, that a Magistrate had discharged them before—on the way to the station Joseph said, "We get our living by pawning things, and selling the tickets;" I searched Joseph, and found on him some tickets for chains and watches, also some chains of the same description, and a white metal one, and a brass eye-glass—I kept the chain which was offered; delivered it to Mr. Searle, and saw him melt it down—I took charge of the metal, and Mr. Richards cut a piece off it.

Cross-examined. Q. Was not the key melted down? A. Yes; I was not told by the refiner to take care that the key was not melted down because it was loaded with lead—he took the stone out.

COURT to WILLIAM RICHARDS. Q. Do you understand the trade of a goldsmith? A. No; only of a refiner—a chain being 9 carat gold, does not mean that it would produce 9 carats, unless it is melted altogether—there is no test which will show a chain to be of a higher value than the melting down—melting reduces the weight a little, but it makes it a shade better—I do not expect a bond fide 9 carat chain to be 9 carat when it is melted; it depends materially on the workmanship—I do not understand about the solder—I can form no judgment, without seeing the manufactured article, of what falling off there ought to be between the produce of the gold after it is melted and the value of it before; there would be a falling off, no doubt, but not of any sensible amount—it would not make the difference between 9 carats and 4 1/2, or between 9 carats and 7—I did

not see a key. (The officer Westbrook here produced a link of one of the same pattern chains.)

COURT to E. RYE. Q. Are either of these chains precisely the same as that offered you in pledge? A. This is the pattern, but it was a shorter chain; the links were the same length.

MR. SLEIGH to W. RICHARDS Q. Supposing this chain and the gold forming the links, irrespective of the joining and the seal, was 9 carat gold, and it was all melted down together, what reduction in carats should you say would be fair? A. Very likely it might be a carat; not more—I am speaking of the chain only; not of the swivel and key.

COURT. Q. Can anybody tell, except by testing, of what character a chain is? A. They can tell by rubbing it on a stone—some are better judges of that than others—they are obliged to go a good deal by colour and by the acid—a person cannot test a chain without melting it—if a man buys a chain there is no means of ascertaining what carat gold it is.

MR. LEWIS. Q. What do you say it is worth? A. 16s. the ounce—if I have said 17s. 6d., I have rather overcharged it; but it contains 2 oz 15 dwts. of fine silver, which, with the gold, makes it worth 17s. 6d.

MR. SLEIGH to E. RYE. Q. In your judgment, what is the value of the chain offered to you, assuming the gold is worth 16s.? A. I cannot say exactly—it is a rough made Birmingham chain; and, to the best of my judgment, 5s. 6d. would be enough for the make of the whole chain—the chain weighed 17 dwts.

JAMES MARGETSON (Policeman, R 373). On 25th March, about half-past 1, I was on duty near Mrs. Tighe's shop, and the prisoner and another person, named Bay ford, came round the corner of a public-house, and walked down to the corner of the Dover Castle public-house, in conversation—I went towards them, and saw Oscar with these chains in his hand—Bayford went to Sharpe's, the pawnbroker's opposite, and Joseph went to Mrs. Tighe's—I apprehended Bayford about half an hour afterwards.

WILLIAM BAYFORD —I am a greengrocer, of 44, Lambeth-walk—I have known the prisoners some years—one of them worked for my father, who is a greengrocer—at the latter end of February, or the beginning of March, Joseph said to me that his brother was in the jewellery way—they live with their mother, in lodgings, at Stanhope-street, Clare-market—on 25th March, Joseph asked me to go down to Greenwich with him next day, and said I might earn 2s. or 3s., by pawning a watch or two—Oscar was present—it was at their mother's—I went with them to Greenwich next day, and they showed me some watches and chains—these chains are some of them—Joseph said they had bought them at Debenham and Storr's—he asked me to take a watch into Mr. Sharpe's; to ask 25s. for it, and take 1l.—I was to meet them at the corner—I went in, but did not pawn it—when I came out I saw them in custody—a week before that Joseph asked me to take a walk in the Edgeware-road with him—I did so, and he asked me to take a similar chain to Mr. Smith's, but it was not the same pattern—I was to ask 5l. 10s. for it.

MR. LEWIS submitted that any misstatements which were made were after the policeman was tent for, were for the purpose of eluding him, and were not used to obtain the money; and, further, that it had been held, in Regina v Bryant, that there must be a misrepresentation of the actual species, whereas, here there was only a misrepresentation of the quality. MR. SLEIGH contended that this case was altogether different from Regina v. Bryant; but THE COURT considered that the cases were analogous, and that it was the constant practice for the seller to exaggerate the quality of an article, and for the buyer to depreciate it, without coming under a charge of obtaining by false pretences; that if an article was represented to be equal to something which it was not equal to, the person so doing would not be liable, or there would be an end to all buying; and, further, that Rye, by stating that the chain was nothing but brass, had much more deeply depreciated the price than the prisoners had exaggerated it.


9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-528
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

Related Material

528. OSCAR LEE and JOSEPH LEE were again indicted for a like offence.

MR. SLEIGH offered no evidence.



Before Mr. Justice Crowder.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-529
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

529. EMMA ELIZABETH FAYBOURN (45) , Feloniously and maliciously attempting to set fire to the dwelling-house of Mary Waldron, with intent to injure her. Second Count, feloniously setting fire to the said dwelling-house.

MESSRS. RIBTON and KEMPE conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES DENN . I am a lodger at 27, Green-walk, Holland-street, Black-friars-road—on the Saturday night that this fire happened, I came home a little before 12—it was at the beginning of April, I don't recollect the day of the month—I live in the first floor back room with my wife—a person named Ansell lives in the front room—Ansell's wife was at home when I came home—he came in shortly afterwards—we had supper together, and then went to our respective rooms to bed—there were two other lodgers on the ground floor; a man named Town and his wife—at the time I came in they had been asleep two hours—after I had been in bed some time, I heard somebody open the street-door, and go through the passage, and then heard the sound of a match, and I said to my wife, "There is somebody downstairs"—they then appeared to go out again, and close the door—about two minutes after the door closed I jumped out of bed, looked out of my window, and saw a light—I alarmed Ansell and his wife, and the others, by calling out "Fire!"—I then ran upstairs for my wife to come down, and then I went downstairs into the back kitchen, and saw a pile of things a-light close to a screen that goes in front of the fire to keep the draught away—they were away from the fire—the screen was alongside of them—there was no fire in the grate—the screen was on fire, and the clothes were in a blaze—Ansell took the kettle off the hob and put the fire out—Mrs. Waldron was in the front parlour while we were putting the fire out—she sleeps in the front parlour—I did not see anything of the prisoner till my wife let her in, and she came into the back kitchen—when she came in she asked where her husband Frank was—Mrs. Waldron was not out of her room, I think at that time—the prisoner spoke to her at the door—the door of Mrs. Waldron's room opens close to the street-door—she opened her door, and said to the prisoner, "You know where he is"—the prisoner then said, "What is the matter?" my wife said, "You know what is the matter; you have carried out your threats at last"—the prisoner appealed to Mrs. Town directly, and said, "You know I am innocent"—my wife ran out for a, policeman, and when he came he asked the prisoner whether she had got any way to get into the place—she said, "No"—he asked what she had got in her pocket—she said, "Nothing, only a box of matches"—she was pulling

the box of matches out of her pocket, and the latch-key of the front door fell on the floor—she pulled it out herself—the policeman asked her how she came by that—she said, so help her God, somebody had put it in her pocket—he was standing by her side, and saw it fall from her pocket—Ansell picked up the key, and compared it with his own—the policeman tried it, and it fitted the front door—the prisoner was then taken to the Southwark Police-court, and given into custody.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. Is this a large or a small house? A. A small house—there is only one floor above the ground floor—the first floor is occupied by myself and my wife, and Ansell and his wife—the Towns occupy the back parlour—there is a front parlour, the door of which opens close to the street-door—the kitchen is at the back, built out into the yard—it is at the end of the passage—a person coming in at the street-door would pass the doors of the front and back parlours to get at the kitchen—the things I saw in a blaze, were the towel, the apron, and a muslin curtain, light things—the screen is made of canvas, papered over, and is about three feet high—the things were about three or four feet from the fire-place—there was no fire in the grate—the fires had been extinguished by the old lady—she always did that every night—I was not at home all day—I know there was no fire there when I discovered the things on fire, I looked—this is not the first time there has been a fire in that house—the house has been on fire whilst I have been in it about five times, but altogether, about nine or ten, but I don't know of that—the prisoner has been there occasionally—she was not there at the other fires, that we have seen—I did not know the prisoner until she was given into custody—there has been a fire in my room—I cannot say that anybody did that—there was a fire in Ansell's room about nine, ten, or eleven months ago—I do not know it—I have heard them say so; but that the little boy did by getting underneath the bed to get some toys, and striking a lucifer match under the bed—there was a fire in which the insurance company paid the old lady, Mrs. Waldron, something—she gave me a week's rent for putting out that fire; it was on a Saturday night, about three weeks before this fire—it was in the front parlour, Mrs. Waldron's own room—I do not know how that occurred—Mrs. Waldron's bedding has been on fire three or four times since I have been in the house—on the Saturday night in question, I went out about eleven, and came home a little before twelve—there had not been a fire in the kitchen before I went out that I am aware of—I heard of it after this was spoken of, from Mrs. Ansell—I don't know that Mrs. Waldron had been starching a muslin curtain—when the alarm of fire was given, I got into the kitchen before Ansell—I saw the light, and went down and opened the door—the things were piled one on the top of the other—the muslin curtain was not hanging on the screen—they were piled on the ground close to the screen—there was no clothes-horse there—I heard the prisoner knock at the door—when she came in she asked where Frank was—Mrs. Waldron said, "You know where he is"—and the prisoner directly turned round, and said, "He is gone to the hospital"—she did not say that he had been jumping in the street, that he had fallen and cut his face, and run away, and as he was not at the house, she supposed he had gone to the hospital—she afterwards said he had been jumping a post, and cut his face—but at first all she said was, "He is gone to the hospital—when I went down I was naked, with the exception of my shirt, and so was Ansell—the prisoner's husband, Frank, had been staying in the house occasionally for some time—I don't know for how long—I don't know where

his wife was living—I knew she was not living there with her husband—I knew that she did not live with him on account of her being such a character—that was what I always heard—I did not know that because he was out of work and not able to support her she went to live with her friends, while he lived with his mother—I heard from the old lady that he was going to leave—he used to sleep in the back kitchen at first, but after the fire, he slept in the same room as his mother—in another bed—she is a very old lady—up to the time of the fire, he had been sleeping in the kitchen—I came home before twelve—Ansell came home soon afterwards—I had been out to get my provisions for the Sunday—I always buy them myself—I might have been into a public-house to have half-a-pint of beer, but not to sit down—I might have had about two half-pints—my wife and I were both quite sober when we went to bed—I was present at a quarrel between Ansell and the prisoner's husband—the old lady complained of a noise that Ansell and his friends were making up-stairs—Ansell said he should do as he liked in his own room as long as he paid his rent—the prisoner's husband said, "I am here"—Ansell directly answered, "What if you are here?"—the prisoner's husband went out, and put himself in a fighting attitude in the road, but Ansell never went outside the door—that was the only quarrel I recollect—this key was a patent latch-key—it has got "patent" upon it—it is not a very common, one—when the policeman came the prisoner was sitting down by the table—(the key was here produced)—they tell me it is a patent key—I did not not say it had the word "patent" upon it—I said it was a patent key.

MR. RIBTON. Q. Whether it is a patent key or not, does it open the door? A. It does—I have been living in the house about eleven or twelve weeks—I left last Saturday—I believe the prisoner has been married to Mrs. Waldron's son some twenty years—she was not living in the house during the time I was there—her husband was sleeping there all the time—she was in the habit of coming there occasionally, and annoying Mrs. Waldron—whether she came to see her husband or not I don't know—she did not sleep there—I have never heard her and Mrs. Waldron quarrelling—I only speak of what my wife and the old lady have told me.

COURT. Q. You say that Ansell had a quarrel with the prisoner's husband, did you have any quarrel with him? A. No, never—I only stopped Ansell from going out.

MR. DOYLE. Q. Are you and Ansell constant friends? A. I never knew Ansell till I took the lodging—I used to go out with him about once or twice a week, not oftener.

MARY DENN . I am the wife of the last witness—he is a butcher—we live in the back room first floor at Mrs. Waldron's house—I recollect the night upon which the fire occurred—my husband came home, I think about five minutes past 12—we had supper and went to bed—after we had been in bed some short time I heard a noise below—I heard some one open the street-door and grope through the passage—I heard them walking through the passage from the street door to the kitchen, as if finding their way in the dark—I then heard something like the striking of a match or matches in the kitchen—I said something to my husband—he laid in bed for some minutes—we heard some one walk out of the house and shut the street-door very abruptly—I laid for some few minutes, and smelt fire, and our room was full of smoke—my husband then got out of bed, and looked from the window and saw a light in the kitchen; you can see it

from our window—I got up, and the alarm was given—we went downstairs, and Mr. and Mrs. Ansell also—my husband went down first—he said the kitchen was in flames, and made the alarm, and told me to come down—I put my boots on, and went down as I was—as I got downstairs there was a rap at the street-door—my husband was in the kitchen at that time—I went to the door and let in the prisoner—she said, "Good God! What is the matter?"—I said, "You know what is the matter," and walked through the passage to the kitchen—she spoke to her mother-in-law, and followed to the door—she asked her mother-in-law if Frank was there—she replied, "He is not here; you know where he is, he is along with you"—the prisoner then said she knew where her husband was; that he had been jumping over a post and fallen and hurt himself, and was taken to the hospital—when I let the prisoner in I saw that she had on a dark dress, a lilac apron, and a drab bonnet; she had no shawl or other covering—I had not been into the kitchen before I opened the door for her—I could not see the blaze without going into the kitchen—I had not seen whether there was a fire in the kitchen or not—I had not seen the blaze from my room—when I went into the kitchen the fire was extinguished—Mr. Ansell was there, not Mrs. Ansell—the prisoner followed me into the kitchen—I fetched the policeman—I did not hear what passed between the prisoner and the policeman—the first time I ever saw the prisoner was a fortnight before the fire in the kitchen, and I then heard a quarrel between her and Mrs. Waldron—she was in the house about three hours; her husband was not in the house at the time—she called the old woman very bad names and said she ought to be dead.

Cross-examined. Q. You did not think it necessary to say anything about this quarrel before? A. No—the first thing I heard on this night, after going to bed, was the outer door opened and then somebody creep along the passage—I don't know that the person went into the back kitchen—it might have been eight or ten minutes after they entered till they went back again—my husband heard it as well as me—we did not feel alarmed about it, we thought it was the lodgers below—when the prisoner came in there was a confusion with the fire below—I had no light with me; there was no light in the passage, there was in the kitchen—Ansell was in the kitchen extinguishing the fire when the rap came to the door—it was not quite out at that time—when the prisoner came in she said, "Good God! what is the matter?"—I had said nothing to her before that—I swear that—I never saw Mrs. Town till some minutes after—the prisoner did not first ask for Frank—Mrs. Waldron opened her door as I was at the street-door—I heard the prisoner ask where was Frank, and Mrs. Waldron said, "You ought to know, he is along with you"—what she said was, "Is he not with you? you ought to know where he is"—she then said he had fallen down and hurt himself, and was taken to the hospital—she did not say, "If he is not here I suppose he is gone to the hospital;" she said he was taken to the hospital—we had been lodging at the house a month or five weeks—during that time Frank has been staying with his mother—I heard his mother say that she kept him out of charity, to keep him from the workhouse, as he had no work—I did not hear that his wife had gone to live with her friends—we left the lodging last Saturday—we went there on 26th February—we had been there four or five weeks when the fire broke out in the kitchen—there had been five fires in the house during the five weeks between 26th February and 3d April—there have been no fires since—one of the fires was in our room; I can't say how that happened—

the prisoner was not there that I am aware of; I don't say that she was—the fire in Ansell's room was months before I went to lodge there—the first fire was on Monday, 28th February, in the kitchen, between 1 and 2 in the morning; that was two days after we went there—a number of clothes in the kitchen on the dresser was in flames—nobody slept in the kitchen—at that time the prisoner's husband was in the habit of sleeping in the front parlour—the second fire was in the front parlour; the third was in my room; and the fourth was in the front parlour the same night—at the fire in my room all my clothes and wearing apparel and a portion of the bed furniture was burnt—I had just hung them up in the room—I had a silk shawl, and a silk velvet bonnet, and a worsted plaid dress, a cotton dress, and several under flannels; they were all burnt—I don't know how long they took to burn—I was not present when they were burnt—it was between 5 and 6 in the afternoon—at the fire in the front parlour part of a feather-bed was burnt, the bed-clothes and furniture—on 3d April there was a window curtain on fire in the kitchen, between 10 and 11 o'clock at night—the prisoner was not there then that I am aware of—I don't know who was in the kitchen—I do not know that the prisoner was there or that she was not; I never knew when she was there—it was a small muslin window curtain that was burnt—the kitchen is common to all the people in the house—I had been in it on that Saturday night—Mrs. Waldron was not then engaged in washing or starching that muslin curtain; it was hanging in its place in the window—she had been ironing something in the course of the day, but I can't say that she was starching then.

MR. RIBTON. Q. During the time of these five fires had the prisoner been in the habit of coming to the house? A. I never saw her but once there before the night of 3d April—the latest hour I was in the kitchen that night was between 10 and 11; I went there when we smelt fire, and Mrs. Waldron was then putting the muslin curtain out—I did not leave her in the kitchen; she went to bed as I went up-stairs—the kitchen was left perfectly safe; there had been no fire in the grate for some hours—the fire in my room happened between 5 and 6 in the day—I had been at home all day, and had my tea at twenty minutes past 4, and let the fire out—I was in Mrs. Ansell's room when the alarm was given—the fire was extinguished by Mr. Ansell and my husband.

JAMES ANSELL . I live in the first floor front-room, at 29, Green-walk—on the night of the fire, I came home at five minutes past 12—I found Denn and his wife in my room—we all went to bed—after I had been in bed some time, Denn knocked at my door, and said, "Ansell get up for God's sake! the house is in flames"—I jumped out of bed and went down stairs—I believe I was the first that went into the kitchen; there was no one there—I found a lot of clothes piled up alongside of a fire-screen; they were all in flames, and the fire-screen also; by what I could see, there was a muslin curtain, a towel, and an apron—I should say they were five or six feet from the grate—there was no fire in the grate, nor any light in the room, except from this fire—Denn then came down, and we succeeded in putting out the fire—I aroused the lodgers in the backroom; they were asleep; I knocked three or four times before they answered—they said they had been in bed two hours—the prisoner came into the kitchen—the fire was then just put out—I, Mr. Denn, and Mr. Town were in the kitchen when she came in—Mrs. Denn was standing on the staircase, and Mrs. Waldron was sitting in a chair in the kitchen, alongside the fire-place—the prisoner followed Mrs. Waldron into the kitchen, close behind her—

when she came in, she said, "Oh, my God! what is the matter?"—that was as she was coming along the passage, when Mrs. Denn opened the door to her—I heard her ask Mrs. Waldron where Frank was—that was as she was standing by the kitchen door—Mrs. Waldron said, "You know where he is; you have been with him all the night"—she said, "Yes; I think he is gone to the hospital, for he has been jumping over a post, and broken his nose"—she then asked Mrs. Waldron if she would lend her a warm shawl—Mrs. Waldron turned round and said, "Why, Emma, here is your own shawl on this chair"—that was the arm-chair alongside the kitchen grate; I saw it there—the prisoner made no answer to that, but she immediately put it on—I first noticed the shawl when Mrs. Waldron referred to it—I did not notice whether it was there when I first went in to put the fire out—I am sure the prisoner had no shawl on when she came in; she stood alongside of me—when the policeman came, he asked her how she got in—she said she knocked at the door, and Mrs. Denn let her in—he said, "Have you got any other means of getting in?"—she said, "No"—he asked her what she had in her pocket—she said, "Nothing but a box of lucifer matches"—she pulled the box of matches out of her pocket, and, in pulling the matches out, she pulled out this key, which dropped on the floor—I stooped down and picked it up, and said, "Here is a key, policeman, and that key will open this street-door."

Cross-examined. Q. How long have you lodged in the house? A. Twelve months—I am a brass-finisher and gas-fitter, not a locksmith—I don't think this is a very common key—we handle a great many at our place, although I am no locksmith I am an ironmonger; we have a great many made at our own place—I think it is rather a complicated key, not an ordinary key—I have not examined the lock to see whether there are wards in it which exactly fit this key—I have not tried whether the commonest key of the same size would open it—I don't know whether there is any ward to the lock—in my judgment, it is a very complicated and ingenious key; that is my opinion—I say so deliberately—I don't know whether it belongs to Mrs. Waldron—all the lodgers have not keys—I have one; Denn has not; the Towns have; Mrs. Waldron says she has not one; my wife has one—nine persons sleep in the house—I have one child; Denns have none; the Towns have one; there would be ten, including Frank—he had been staying with his mother for some time before this, and he was out of work—I and Denn are very good friends; we very seldom go out together of an evening; we are, at times, in each other's rooms—we sometimes have a few friends—Mrs. Waldron complained of the noise on one occasion—I said while I paid my rent, I should do as I pleased—her son interfered, and there was a quarrel between us—he challenged me out of doors to fight, but I did not go—I refused; I did not wish to unman myself—I did not get out of temper; it was not necessary to hold me—when I went down stairs, Denn said, "Don't go out!" and I said, "You may depend upon it, I shall not"—I don't know that Frank was locked in the parlour by his mother—I have not had a word with Frank before or since—I do not know a glass-blower named Bonny Billy, not by name; or Mr. Dockley, or Ayling—I might have said that I should not have given the prisoner into custody, if her husband had not come up and dared me as he had done—I had not a great deal of trouble in putting out this fire; I emptied the kettle over it—when the prisoner said, "Good God! what is the matter?" she was in the passage; I should say within two yards of the kitchen, walking behind Mrs. Waldron—the passage is about five yards long, from the kitchen to the front door—Mrs. Denn

was standing on the stairs—the stairs are about four feet from the kitchen door; she went there after opening the street-door—I am quite positive that the prisoner had no shawl on when she came in—I can't say the exact number of fires there have been in the house in the last twelve months, but I should say seven or eight—I did not see the prisoner at any of them, except the last—the one that was in my room happened by my child getting his toys from under the bed with a match, and setting fire to the valens round the bed—that is seven or eight months ago; I was not in the house at that time—I was in the house when the fire occurred in Denn's room; I was in the front room; nobody was in Denn's room—the door was shut—I went down to open the door for my boy, and as I came up, I saw the reflection of the fire underneath the door, and shouted for water—both the Denn's were in my room, and had not been out of it for an hour—there have been several fires, which nobody could account for—I can't say that the prisoner was not in the house; I don't know anything at all about that.

MR. RIBTON. Q. Has she been in the habit of coming to the house? A. Yes, frequently—I have heard her quarrelling with Mrs. Waldron on several occasions, I suppose as far back as eight or nine months—I have seen her at the house as many as three times in a fortnight; I have seen her there from one night to another, quarrelling and smashing windows, and using bad language—I have heard her on several occasions say, "So help me God! I will burn the b—house, and the old b—in it"—the last time I heard her say so was about four months ago—I believe all the fires I have spoken of, except the one in my room, have been since I heard her use that expresssion—there was quarrelling between the prisoner and the old lady on the Saturday fortnight previous to the last fire, and the old lady sat down crying almost all the time; the prisoner called her all the foul names she could, and all the w—s she could lay her tongue to; she said she was a w—with Mr. Butler, an old gentleman who lives in the alms-houses opposite, who was in the kitchen at the time.

MR. DOYLE. Q. Are you in the habit of being very much at home? A. No; only of an evening—I return from my work about six, or a little after—these quarrels have been in the evening—other lodgers have heard this bad language; Mrs. Ansell has heard it, and Mrs. Denn, and all the people that have been called here to-day—I don't think Mrs. Denn lived there at the time the windows were broken; the last time was, I think, about 4 months ago—I have been speaking of 7 or 8 months ago—it ended about 4 months ago to my leaving, but I suppose it has gone on since—I never had occasion to have a bad opinion of the prisoner—I never spoke a word to her till she came there—Mrs. Denn and my wife heard the quarrel on the Saturday fortnight before the last fire—it was on the Monday previous, that I had the little tiff with the old lady about the noise; those were the only words I ever had—there was a canary bird suffocated in Mrs. Denn's room—I told her she was to blame if she did not make a claim on the Insurance Company for it—I did not tell her to claim 15s.—I told Mrs. Waldron to claim for what she had lost, because she said people blamed her for setting the place on fire—I told her to claim for both Denn's things and her own, for the fire in the front parlour was the same night at 11 o'clock after Denn's fire—Mrs. Waldron was not in bed when that fire broke out—she was in the kitchen—nobody saw the prisoner in the house then.

ELIZA ANSELL . I am the wife of the last witness—on the Saturday night, about 12 o'clock, I was in the kitchen—there was no light or fire there then; no candle or any fire in the grate—there was no bundle of clothes; there

were some clothes hanging on the line across the kitchen; 2 muslin curtains, and a towel—I had been in the kitchen about 11 o'clock, and then there was a muslin curtain a-light; that was what brought me into the kitchen—I was up stairs in my own room, and I smelt fire and went down to the kitchen and found the muslin curtain at the window on fire—I assisted in putting it out—I am quite certain it was safely put out—Mrs. Waldron had set the candle on the table under the window, and by that means I suppose the curtain might have become alight—at that time the 2 muslin curtains were hanging on the line at the other end of the kitchen—the curtain was quite put out, and water poured all round the window frame—Mrs. Waldron sat in the kitchen about half an hour, quenching the fire out before she went to bed—I did not see her do it; I left her in the kitchen—at 12 o'clock I had occasion to go into the yard, and I looked in the kitchen to see that all was safe as there had been so many fires in the house, and everything was safe then—I went to bed about half past 12—I was disturbed by Denn—my husband went down in his shirt, and assisted in extinguishing the fire—I stopped to get some of my clothes on—I remained up stairs until after the prisoner came in—I have heard the prisoner and Mrs. Waldron quarrelling several times—she has said she would burn the b—house down, and the old b—in it—I have heard her say so several times.

Cross-examined. Q. When did you last hear her say it? A. I could not say, I took no note of the time; she has said it 2 or 3 times within 3 months, and within 2 months—my husband heard her say it at that time—I have heard her make use of very abusive language to the old lady—my husband heard her say this the last time she said it; I dare say it is 2 or 3 months ago—she said it repeatedly—my husband and I have not talked over this; we have never said a word about it—I don't know that she said at each quarrel that she would burn the house down—the quarrelling was about her husband being there—the quarrelling was with her husband and the landlady both—she used to abuse her shamefully, and call her everything that was bad—she abused her husband also, and she has broken the windows; she broke 3 squares in the kitchen; I think that was 4 or 5 months ago—she used to come to the house very frequently and kick up rows—I can't say how many times, it may have been a dozen; I am sure she has been there 10 times, and more than that—I can't say whether she was there at all in February; yes once I know she was, one Saturday night, a fortnight before 3d April—there has been no particular quarrel between the prisoner's husband and my husband—we had a little merry-making up stairs, and the landlady interfered and spoke to my husband, and he said he should do as he pleased in his own place; the prisoner's husband took it up, and challenged him to fight, but he did not—I never heard my husband say that he would not have given the prisoner into custody if her husband had not dared him as he did nothing of the kind.

MR. KEMPE. Q. I suppose the prisoner might have come to the house without your knowing it? A. Yes; my attention was only attracted to her being there by her raising her voice.

MARY WALDRON . I am the landlady of the house, 29, Green Walk—the prisoner is my daughter-in-law—she has been constantly in the habit of visiting me—I had not seen her for a fortnight before this happened—I have sometimes had quarrels with her; little, slight quarrels—I never had any great quarrels; there was never any quarrel on my side—on the Sunday morning I went to bed a little before 12, and soon after I was in bed, as nigh as I could tell about 5 minutes, I heard Mr. Ansell come in—I did

not hear Mr. Denn come in—I fell asleep after Ansell came in, and after sleeping about half-an-hour or a little more, I heard the word "Fire!"—I can't say which lodger it was from—I got up, and as I came out of my room I saw the prisoner, she said, "What is the matter"—I did not see her come into the house—I did not know she was in the house until she spoke to me—she said, "Where is Frank"—I said I did not know—she said, "He has jumped over a post and broken his nose, and gone to the hospital"—I walked into the kitchen—she came behind me—Ansell and Denn had put the fire out—the prisoner asked me to lend her a shawl—I took her own shawl out of my chair, and said, "Here is your own"—she made no answer—she took it out of my hand—the last time I had been in the kitchen was about a quarter to 12—there was no fire then in the grate, and had not been for some hours—there was no candle burning there when I left it—I had placed a large towel I had been using over the back of the chair, and over that was a line upon which hung two curtains, that was all there was in the kitchen—the chair was close to the dresser opposite the window—there had been a small curtain on fire about 11 o'clock that evening—I put the candle as I thought at a distance from it, but whether in opening the back-door the wind blew the candle or not I don't know, but I believe it was caused in that way—I put it out—I did not leave the candle near any of the things after that.

Cross-examined. Q. How long has your son been married to the prisoner? A. I think twenty years—I have never suspected her of trying to set fire to my house; she has never threatened to do anything of the sort—I never heard her—it is true that she broke my windows—her temper is sometimes rather violent—her husband has been living at my house for some months; I don't know where she has been living—the reason she did not live with her husband was because he had not the means to support her—I knew nothing of their own quarrels together—there was no bad feeling between us, not on my side; it was unpleasant to quarrel—I am not aware that there was any bad feeling on her side towards me, only from her language: she would use rough language to me at times—she did not like her husband to be living with me—when I saw her on this Saturday night I said to her, "Goodness me, what do you do here?"—and then she said, "Where is Frank?"—I thought he and the prisoner had been together that evening, so far as they both said; I did not see them together—I saw my son about a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes after the fire; he came to my house—his face was dreadfully hurt—I did not say much to him; I felt so frightened at what had happened—I can't say whether the prisoner had any shawl on or not when she came into the house—I did not see her till she was in the kitchen, because she was behind me—I don't know whether she had a shawl on when she went into the kitchen; I can't say whether she sat down in the kitchen—Mrs. Denn was the first to charge her with having set the place on fire—I did not hear what the prisoner said to that—there are three latch-keys to my street-door; Ansell's have two, and Town's have one; that is aft I know of—I had none myself—I believe my my son is here to-day; I saw him a little while back—he is very anxious about her case, and very anxious for her acquittal; he does not believe her guilty—I can't say that she is guilty—I never saw anything wrong.

MR. KEMPE. Q. Did these slight quarrels frequently terminate in breaking windows? A. No—only once—when I took the house I had five latch-keys—the other two were lost by lodgers—one lodger, not long ago, took one away, and the other was left in the door—I have had but the three for the last two years.

COURT. Q. How did your son get in? A. I always let him in, or any of the lodgers—I did not hear the prisoner knock at the door—the prisoner spoke in a very angry way on account of my son being with me—he has been in a good way of business, and I did not like to see him starve—I did not take notice of every word the prisoner said; she is rather a violent tempered woman.

COURT to MARY DENN. Q. Was there there a smell of smoke in the passage? A. Yes; anybody coming in from the fresh air would smell it.

WILLIAM BURCHER (Policeman, M 236). On Sunday morning, about quarter past 1, I was called to 29, Green-walk, and the prisoner was given into my custody for attempting to set fire to the house—I asked what she had about her—she said she had only a box of lucifers—I asked her to give them to me—she produced them, and she took a latch-key out of her pocket with the lucifers, which dropped on the floor—I have tried that key to the street-door, and it opens it—I tried it when the door was on the latch only—I examined the kitchen floor; there were marks of burning underneath where this screen was, the floor was very much scorched; the screen was standing one or two yards away from the fire—the boards were very much blackened and scorched.

COURT. Q. Did you put any question to the prisoner as to how she got in? A. No; I don't recollect that I did.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you see the key before you heard it fall? A. Yes, in her hand; she let the key fall, but not the matches—Ansell was standing close by the side of me, and he picked it up and gave it to me—it was a pocket in the dress—she said she was quite innocent; somebody must have put it in her pocket.

JAMES ANSELL (re-examined). I had one key, and my wife another—we have them still; here is mine (producing it)—I do not know whether the key found on the prisoner belonged to any inmate of the house—I had never seen it before to my knowledge.

ELIZA ANSELL (re-examined). I have my key here (producing it)—I have opened the door with this key ever since I have been in the house—I have never, to my knowledge, seen the one produced by the policeman before—I never noticed that my key and my husband's were different—one opened the door as well as the other.

MARY WALDRON (re-examined). This is one of my keys—I think they were all alike, font I never examined them—I gave Ansell only one, he had the other from another lodger.

The prisoner received a good character from several witnesses.


9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-530
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > unknown
SentencesImprisonment; Imprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

530. THOMAS BUTFOY (30), and THOMAS CRIPPS (54) , Stealing 10 casks, value 10l., of Edward Harris, their master, Cripps having been "before convicted, and WILLIAM SMALL (48) , feloniously receiving the same, to which

BUTFOY— PLEADED GUILTY .—He received a good character.— Confined Six Months.

CRIPPS— PLEADED GUILTY .— Three Years' Penal Servitude

MR. METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN HUDSON . I live in Phoenix-street, Spitalfields, and am traveller to Mr. Edward Harris, an ale merchant—he is the sole consignee of Mr. Morgan, of Norwich—he is in the habit of selling the ale to customers in different parts of town—Butfoy was his carman—it was his business to carry out the beer and ale, and to collect empty barrels and bring them home—

Cripps was an occasional man, and he assisted Butfoy to carry out the ale, and to collect the casks—in consequence of information, I went on 19th April to Small's premises, in Short-street, Locke's-fields, Walworth—he carries on the business of a cooper—I went into the yard, and saw Small—I also saw two of our barrels, and three belonging to other brewers—our barrels were branded, "Morgan, Norwich"—the brands had been cut out, but I examined them, and saw the traces of the letters quite sufficiently—they had contained ale which had been brewed in March—I said to Small, "Are these barrels for sale?" he said "Yes"—I said, "What is the price?" he said, "12s. apiece"—I asked if they were all he had—he replied, "Yes"—I asked if he could supply me with a hundred—he inquired in what time I should want them—I said, "Could you let me have a hundred in a week or a fortnight?"—he said no, he could not let me have them in that time, but, if I would guarantee to take a hundred, he would get that number in five or six weeks, and deliver them—I said, "What would the price be, supposing I bought a hundred of them"—he said, "10s. a-piece for that number"—he was very anxious to know who recommended me, and my address—of course I did not satisfy him, but I said I should see him in two or three days—I afterwards saw some other casks, and identified them as Mr. Harris's—I afterwards went to Mr. Dredge's, and saw some barrels there—on the next day after I had been to Small's, I gave instructions to Butfoy to go to three places, and receive empty barrels from each place—when he and Cripps returned, they brought with them three empty barrels and two empty kilderkins—they brought this note, which was given to the cellarman—it is Butfoy's writing, and it has been altered from five to three, and three empty barrels were returned from Mr. Austin—there were none delivered from Mr. Hall—this is the delivery note from Mr. Hall—it shows one to be returned, and that was not returned.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Where are Small's premises? A. In Short-street, Locke's-fields—he did not appear to me to be in a large way of business—I saw other casks there—there might be four—two or three men were at work—I saw no barrels being made—they were making some small casks—it was between 3 and 4 o'clock in the afternoon.

THOMAS SAVELL ALSTON . I keep the Greyhound public-house, at Ball's Pond—on 20th April Butfoy came to my house—he brought three full barrels, and I gave him five empty barrels—this is the entry of five barrels—I signed it—I gave the entry to Butfoy—it is not in the same state now; it has been altered from five to three—Butfoy asked me for a pen and ink—he wanted to sign borne paper.

CORNELIUS HALL . I am servant at a beer-shop in Club-row, kept by Mr. Cootes—on 10th April I saw one barrel which belonged, not to Truman, but to Harris—I found on the file that there had been a barrel of ale—I saw a kilderkin there—I chalked on it—I saw it afterwards and identified it.

EDWARD LAWSON . I am apprentice to Mr. Small—I have been there two or three months—I saw a dray come there on 20th April—I could not say who came with it, but I saw Cripps there about that time—it was between 6 and 7 o'clock—I saw on the bridle of the horse, "Norfolk Ale"—Cripps was rolling a thirty-six gallon cask to Mr. Small's premises in Short-street—I did not see the dray at that time—I did shortly afterwards; it was standing at a beer-shop, two or three doors off—I believe there were some barrels on it—I saw several casks on Mr. Small's premises, but did not see Cripps roll in more than one—I saw four or six others that had not been there before that day—I observed the name of Morgan on those barrels—I had seen that same dray on the previous Saturday with the same black horse

—I went in the yard on that Saturday and saw Cripps rolling one small cask—there were several others brought in, but I saw him roll no more than that one—the others were brought in about that time—I saw them there—they must have come within an hour of the time when I saw this one rolled in—I saw the dray standing at the yard at that time, and I saw another man, but I should not like to say who he was—it was dark—I had seen Cripps there on other occasions, several times within the last two or three months—on that Saturday evening Mr. Small was in the shop, and Grippe was in the back shop—they were within three or four yards of each other—I had seen Mr. Small hacking the brands out of these casks, and another roan also.

Cross-examined. Q. You are apprentice to Mr. Small? A. Yes—I have been absent from his premises the last two or three days—I have been with him about five years—I have had some quarrels with him, and made them up again—I have seen a good many drays come there—I have seen them come and take casks away and bring casks—a cooper would make casks and sell them to the trade—a good many casks are left to repair—the brands might be cut out in repairing them—there are three or four men at work—business is carried on there—there is no foreman—Mr. Small is out a great deal—if casks came when he was out, they left them.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Did those casks that had Morgan's name on them want repairing? No, they did not; they were very good ones.

COURT. Q. Have you known him to buy second-band casks? A. I never saw him buy a cask—I believe he has bought them—I do not know of second-hand casks coming and being afterwards sold.

STEPHEN HASELDINE . I have been apprentice to Mr. Small four years and a half—I know Cripps—I saw him come on 20th April, while my master was absent—he came about three times—I left about half-past 5 o'clock, and Cripps was there then, and my master was there—they were near together—I can't recollect whether they were in conversation—I have seen Cripps come in and out a great many times within the last two or three months—I saw him on the Saturday before the Wednesday—he brought six or seven casks or barrels, and rolled them in—I saw a dray out-side—I do not know what sort of horse it was—I saw another man with Cripps, who handed the barrels from the dray—I did not see any barrels brought on the Wednesday—I have seen 36-gallon casks on my master's premises, with the name of Morgan, Norwich, on them—I have seen as many as twelve altogether—I have seen a man cutting the brands out—some were Morgan's, and some were another name.

Cross-examined. Q. How often have you seen Cripps come? A. On a great many occasions—I cannot call to mind any time when my master was there—I have seen other drays come with casks, on many occasions during my apprenticeship—I have seen them take away casks in the way of business, and leave casks to be repaired—I have known my master to buy casks—I remember he went to a sale to buy some, and they were repaired and done up as good as new—we occasionally have them from houses to be repaired—the casks that my master has bought have been done up, if they wanted it—I have seen the men and my master cleaning them—I never saw them take the names off but on one occasion—I have seen them take the ends out and put them in again.

MR. METCALF. Q. Did those you saw brought in by Cripps want repairing? A. I never saw any being repaired that Cripps brought—those he brought on the Saturday were not repaired, if they did want repairing—I did not examine them.

JOSHUA FOSTER . I am a journeyman in Mr. Small's employ. On a Saturday in April, he employed me to cut some names out of the casks—to the best of my recollection, the name of Morgan was on them—there were six barrels and some hogsheads—I was allowed 1s. 6d. for doing them—Dredge had been looking at them.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you often taken out names on casks? A. Yes; when they have been bought at a sale—I have done it for other masters, as well as Mr. Small—I have knocked other names out as well as Mr. Morgan's—it is a common thing in trade when they are bought at sales—there are a great many second-band casks on sale—Morgan's casks did not want repairing—I have taken names out of casks that did not want repairing—my master told me to get these done as soon as I could, because Mr. Dredge would soon come and take them away—Mr. Dredge had seen the casks with the names on, and I was desired to take them off—Mr. Small is not in a very small way of business—he is a good deal out, and attends sales, buys casks, repairs them, and sells them when he gets a customer.

MR. MECALFE. Q. Did he ever buy casks in the same condition that these were of Morgan's? A. Yes; to sell again.

MARIA CRUMP . I am the wife of Jesse Crump—we keep a beershop, in Charlotte-street, Walworth—it is two or three doors from Mr. Small's premises—I never saw Butfoy come to my house with a dray—there was a dray—Butfoy and Cripps have been in the habit of coming to my house—on 20th April, I saw a dray, and Butfoy and Cripps came to my house—Cripps went out, leaving Butfoy in my house for about a quarter of an hour—on Cripps' return, they had some conversation, and Butfoy went out—Cripps told him to go to the top of Brandon-street, and wait there—Cripps was at my house on the Saturday before, and on the next morning—while Cripps was at my place on the Saturday before, a boy came there from Mr. Smalls, and, in consequence of what was said by the boy, Cripps went out—I have seen Cripps and Small come in my house four or five times, and they have drank together.

Cross-examined. Q. How long have you known Small? A. Not more than four or five months—he conducted himself with propriety, and was a very industrious man—he bears a very good character in the neighbourhood—he has occasionally come in my place to have a glass of ale.

EDWARD WORRELLS (Police-inspector). On Wednesday, 20th April, I went with a constable to Small's house—I waited till half-past 1 o'clock on the Thursday morning—Small then came home—I met him and asked him if he had had any barrels brought in lately—he said that he had not within the last two or three weeks, and that all that was in the place belonged to him—I asked him whether it was his place—he said "Yes"—I asked him if he had any brought there on the previous evening, the Wednesday—he said, "Who are you?"—I told him we belonged to the police, and he must consider himself in custody for receiving barrels on the Wednesday and on the previous Saturday, well knowing them to have been stolen—he said those that he had received on the Saturday were brought to him by a man recommended by a Mr. Munnery, in Bath-street, Kingsland-road, and that he had given him seven or eight shillings apiece for them—I asked if they were still in the yard—he said no, they were not; he had taken them away yesterday morning in a cart, to a man named Dredge, who resided near King's-cross, but he could not tell me the street—I took him to the station, and came back and searched the premises—I there found three barrels, branded Morgan, Norwich; one branded R. Thornton; and a kilderkin

with Truman and Co. on it, all which I removed to the station—I then took Small into the station yard, and told him these were the barrels I got from his premises, and I asked him if he remembered anything about them—he pointed to the four barrels, and said he bought them last night, but he had not paid the whole of the money for them—he had paid fourteen shillings on account—he did not say from whom—I went back to his house, and took away three account books and some papers—I searched him, and found some money on him—about half-past 9 o'clock the same morning I went again to the yard; sent a lad to Cripps, who came back with the lad, and was taken in custody—I went on the Saturday to John-street, Pentonville, to Mr. Dredger—I found near thirty barrels; five of them had the brands cut.

REUBEN DREDGE . I am a cooper, of John-street, Pentonville—I have a store there—on 20th April I bought four casks of Small—there were no brands on them—they were cut out—they were delivered on the 20th—I saw them in Small's cart—I did not see them at his premises—I had bought some on two or three occasions before that—I paid 32s. for the four; that was 8s. each—I had bought four on the 15tn at 7s. 6d.—the brands had been cut out of them also—I had bought three barrels and two kilderkins for 1l. 12s. on 11th April—the barrels were 8s. each, and the kilderkins 4s. each—and on 2d April I had bought sundry old casks and barrels—the names were Cut out of all these—I had been to Small's premises on several occasions—I have not observed any barrels with the name of Morgan oh them—I Was present when the police took away five barrels from my place—they had come from Small's.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you a great many barrels at your placer? A. Yes; I buy them and sell them again—I had about forty on my premises, full and empty—I have bought of two other persons besides the prisoner—I believe that those five that the police took came from the prisoner—I can't say that I am quite sure—they had the names cut out—it is usual to do so when barrels are sold—I have not desired it to be done—if I had bought casks with the name on, I should cot them out—that is done when casks are bought with the names on them—I have been in a place where they have been buying casks for sixteen years—on 15th April I bought four casks at 7s. 6d. each, and on the 11th three at 8s., and two kilderkins at 4s.; and on the 2d I bought some at 7s., 6s., and 5s.; I do not know how many—the names were cut out of all, and they were mixed in my stock—the police have had several parties to look over them.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Have any been claimed by other parties? A. I am not aware that they have—I was not there at the time they came—I understand there are more gone away—some puncheons were claimed.

COURT. Q. Had you about forty on your premises? A. Yes, full and empty—I deal in beer as well—there were some other empty barrels there that I had not received from Small.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Did those five barrels that they took, come from Small? A. I could not positively swear, but I believe they did—they were put in with a lot more—the police came on the Saturday, three days after I bought from Small—I do not know whether any of the four I bough from Small were left on my premises when the police went away—I cannot tell whether I have now in my possession any that I bought from Small—Hudson called my attention to the casks, but not to any marks on them.

COURT. Q. Was there any other person you could have bought them of if you did not buy them of Small? A. I bought five barrels at 6s. of a person named Davis, a few days before 20th April—it must have been about

the 16th—they had no brand on them—those taken away were not bought of Davis—I bought some of Munnerman on 12th April—they are on the premises now—I say that I cannot tell whether those that were taken away were, what I bought of Small, because I believe they were all put together—I have not sold any—those I bought of Munnerman were like those I bought of Small—I could have distinguished one from the other if I had taken particular notice.

JOHN HUDSON (Re-examined). The value of these casks at the present time is 18l. a-piece—they were nearly new—they would not be used for any other purpose—they were quite sweet—we never sell casks; they are returned to Norwich.

Cross-examined. Q. Can you tell that all that come from Norwich find their way back again? A. All that come to our hands do—they all find their way hack unless they are kept by the publicans or stolen—they are not often kept by the publicans—we take good care that they should not be kept back—those shewn to me were worth 18s. apiece—if they had been used; two or three times they would be worth the same—they do not improve by age; but for some months they would be of the same value—those I saw at Small's and at Dredge's were nearly new.

SMALL received a good character.


9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-531
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

531. WILLIAM DOWNING (35), and HENRY DAVEY (34) , stealing 6 cwt. of bristles, value 80l., of Joseph Moses.

MR. ROBINSON conducted the Prosecution.

LOUIS MOSES . My father, Joseph Moses, carries on business as a bristle merchant, in Leadenhall-street. On 1st February I saw six Cwt and three-quarters leave our place, to foe taken to the Aberdeen steam wharf—I never saw them again till they were at the police-court, about 13th Match—these bristles (produced) I believe are a part of those which were to be sent that day—we always get them tied with bark—those that were to be taken were tied with bark—these are now tied with string—these bristles are peculiar from their solidity and their length—we import them from St. Petersburg, and from no other place—we only import them from one man at St. Petersburg—these are not articles you would be likely to got in the market—I believe the value of the six Cwt. and three-quarters was 70l. odd.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. The man in St. Petersburg who supplies you must have others? A. Yes—I can swear that bark has been tied round these which are here-these exactly resemble what we have—I have never seen such bristles as these, supplied to any other person.

FREDERICK CORNET . I was in Mr. Maybury's service—I was employed to drive a cart with a quantity of bristles from Leadenhall-street to Aberdeen-wharf—I left the cart between Aberdeen-wharf and the next wharf, while I went in with my delivery note, and when I returned, the cart was gone—it was found the next morning.

FRANCIS MAYBURY . I am a carman: worse luck for me; for I had to pay for it—I don't know where Downing lives—I had seen him before—the policeman came to me, in Mitre-street, at a quarter past 12 the next morning—I went with him, and found the cart in a green-yard, in kings-land-road.

CHARLES REPTON . I found the cart in Robert-Street, Hoxton—it had been brought there by an officer, whose beat is in Hackney-road.

GEORGE DOUGHTY . I live in Thomas-street, Kent-street, Borough—I know Downing; he came to me on Wednesday, 13th April, and asked me

if I would buy some bristles—he brought this bundle of bristles with him—I told him I would buy them at a price; and asked what he wanted for them? he said "Half-a-crown a pound;" I said "No; that is above the trade price; I will give you 1s. 9d.—I asked him how many he had got? he said "A little over four cwt."—I said "There is no objection about the bulk; I will buy them"—I asked when he would bring them? and he said the next morning—after he was gone, I took the bundle of bristles over to Mr. Moses—I had had notice from him; and he gave information to the police—the next morning the police were in my place when Downing came—he brought a basket of bristles—he said those were all he had brought; and if I approved of them he would bring the bulk.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did he not say that they were not his own. A. Yes; he said he had them to sell for a man.

MR. ROBINSON. Q. Did you hear him say where he lived? A. Yes; in Bermondsey; and Davey said he lived in Bethnal-green-road.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER Q. Did Davey come to your house? A. Yes, after the constable had been there—when Downing said he got them of another man, the officer went and fetched Davey to my place.

THEODORE HALSTEAD FOULGER (City-policeman, 568). On 13th April I went to the shop of Mr. Doughty—Downing came in and had this basket of bristles with him—I asked him if he chose to give me an explanation of how he became possessed of them—he said, "I don't know"—I said, "You must know"—he then said they were given to him by a man who was round at a beer-shop in Swan-street, Borough—I said, "What is his name?"—he said, "I think it is Davey"—I asked him to describe Davey, and another officer went and came back with Davey—I then asked Davey how he became possessed of them?—he said he bought them of a man he knew nothing of—I said, "You must know something of him; show me a bill and receipt of them"—he said he had none—I said, "You must know the man you bought them of"—he said, "I think his name is Bob Faggy"—I asked where I could see this Bob Faggy—he said he did not know—I took him to the station—I should have stated, that at the time Downing came to the shop there was a horse and cart outside the door, with the name of Wood on it—I asked Downing if that was the cart he brought the bristles in—he said it was not—I took both the prisoners in the cart, and drove to the station—when there, Davey said, in answer to a question put y the inspector, that he had lent Bob Faggy a sovereign on them, and he had had the bristles in his possession six weeks, and his wife had packed them up in the morning—I went and searched his house, No. 5, Winchester-street—it is a chandler's shop—I found 68 lbs. of bristles.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. When you went in the shop you found Downing, and asked him how he became possessed of them, did he say, "I don't know?" A. Yes—I said that I was a police-officer—he said they were given him by a man to sell.

ANTHONY WILSON MONGER (Policeman). I was at Mr. Doughty's—I saw Downing, and in consequence of what he said, I went to a beer-shop in Swan-street, Dover-road—I saw Davey in front of the beer-shop—I addressed him by the name of Davey—he said, "Yes"—I asked him if he had given Mr. Downing any bristles to sell—he said he had not—I asked him again, and he said he knew nothing about any bristles at all—I told him I was a police-officer, and he must come with me to Thomas-street to see Downing—on the way he said he certainly had given Downing the bristles to sell for him.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Was it through the description that Downing gave, you found Davey? A. Yes; he described him very well.

THOMAS WOOD . I live in Winchester-street—on Wednesday morning, 13th April, Davey came to me, and asked if I could lend him my horse and cart to go to Farringdon-street, he wanted to take some grocery goods there—I never saw my hone and cart again till the officer came.

HUGH EDWARD FURNILL . I am in the service of Mr. Moses—I saw the cart with tie bristles at his place—there were 6 3/4 cwt. in the cart—I believe these are the same bristles—here is the particular mark in the centre which distinguishes the mark of that particular manufacturer.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Did you see these before the Magistrate? A. Yes—I do not know that the person in Russia who supplies these supplies a great many persons—these bristles have a plug in the middle—the other sort of bristles have not.

MR. ROBINSON. Q. Is this plug used by that particular person in Russia? A. Yes—my master sells bristles wholesale, in casks.

COURT. Q. How are you able to say that these are not some that have been sold by your master? A. That I can't say—we have had a great quantity of these, and sold them in casks.


9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-532
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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532. ANN JUBY (29) was indicted for bigamy, to which she

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Two Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-533
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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533. CHARLES MCCARTHY (16), and CHARLES GROVES (18) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Benjamin Crowhurst, at St. Mary, Newington, with intent to steal, to which they

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months each.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-534
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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534. EDWARD HOOKER (40) , Robbery on Thomas Hogg, and stealing from his person 1 watch and 3l. 15s. in money, his property, to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

There was another indictment against the Prisoner.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-535
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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535. ELLEN HANSOM (48) Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin, to which she

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Month.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-536
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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536. MARY ANN LEHO (20) was indicted for a like offence, to which she

PLEADED GUILTY .**— Confined Nine Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-537
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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537. ANN FLAHARTY (35) was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. CLERK and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM JOHN MATTHEWS . I keep the Black Horse, York-street, Westminster—on 7th March, between 9 and 10 in the morning, the prisoner came—I was at breakfast, and my wife was in the bar—I heard her say to the prisoner, "This is a bad shilling"—I went out—my wife gave me a bad shilling—I told the prisoner it was bad, and she said that it was given to her by some person, whom she named—she told me her name, and where her husband worked; and I did not press the charge, but watched her down the street—she walked sharply, saw me watching her, and ran—I caught her,

and took her to the station—I gave the coin to B 68, but did not press the charge.

RICHARD STOKES . (Policeman, B 68). I produce a shilling, which I received from Mr. Matthews at the station on 7th March.

WILLIAM RANKIN . I am a confectioner, of Bridge-road, Lambeth—on 4th April, the prisoner came for 1oz. of acid drops—I weighed them, but did not give them to her—she gave me a sixpence—I told her it was bad, and that if she brought a policeman I would give it her back, but that I never returned bad money except to a policeman—after arguing for a minute or two she left, and did not return—I afterwards gave it to Norman.

Prisoner. You never saw me in your life? Witness. I swear you are the woman—I saw you taken from the public-house opposite two days afterwards, Wednesday—I saw you at the police-court on the second Wednesday—I went on the first Wednesday, but the case did not come on—I have no doubt about you—you were by yourself in the cell—the policeman did not call you out and show you to me; you came out to be examined by Mrs. Matthews, and I identified you.

MR. CLERK. Q. Was it on a Monday she was at your shop? A. Yes; and I saw her taken at the Crown on the Wednesday, at mid-day, and I identified her then.

JOHN JAMES RUSSELL . I am barman at the Crown, kept by Mr. Broadhurst—on 6th April, about twenty minutes past 5, the prisoner came and asked for half a quartern of gin, which came to 2d.—she gave me a shilling—I told her it was bad—she said she would take it where she got it from, and get it changed—I gave her in charge, with the shilling—Mr. Rankin lives forty or fifty yards from me, just across the road.

THOMAS NORMAN (Policeman, L 195). The prisoner was given in my custody at the Crown on Wednesday—Russell gave me a shilling, and Rankin a sixpence.

Prisoner. Q. Did you ask me where I got the shilling? A. Yes—you said, off your mantel-piece.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These two shillings and this sixpence are bad.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

9th May 1859
Reference Numbert18590509-538
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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538. JOSEPH SMITH (24), was indicted for a like offence.

MR. CLERK conducted the prosecution.

BENJAMIN HART . I keep the Duke's Head, Lambeth—on 17th April, at 8 o'clock in the evening, the prisoner and another man came for half a quartern of gin—one of them laid a half-crown on the counter—I laid 2s. 4d. on the bar, and the prisoner took it up—I kept the half-crown in my hand—they left and I had some conversation with Mr. Lewis; found the half-crown was bad, went into Lambeth-walk and found the prisoner coming out of the Little Wonder beer shop as I went in—(I did not see the other man)—I said, "You gave me a bad half-crown just now, and if you will return me my money, I shall say no more about it"—he said, "I do not know where your house is, I have not been in your house"—he walked by my side some distance—I looked for a policeman—I turned to speak to a friend by my side and the prisoner was gone—I gave the half-crown to Hacon the same evening—I saw the prisoner again on Monday morning, at the police-station, in custody.

Prisoner. Q. Did not I meet you an hour after you took the bad money and offer to go back; and did not you refuse? A. I said it was no use going back, as I was the person who took the money—when I gave evidence next morning I said that I could not exactly swear to you because

you would only show one side of your face: you stood behind a pillar—I also said that I gave the man in the tap-room the half-crown to look at and he said it was good; but others said it was bad—I never took my eyes off it.

JAMES LEWIS . I am a barge builder—I was at Mr. Hart's tap-room looking through the glass, and saw the prisoner outside the door—he called for half a quartern of gin, and put down half-a-crown—there was another man on the other side looking through the window—a man came in with the prisoner land had a portion of the gin—I saw them leave, and Mr. Hart showed me the half-crown—I then went out with him to the Little Wonder, and saw the prisoner there, but not the other man—I have seen the prisoner before—the other man goes by the name of Chumpey.

ELIZABETH TRUEMAN . My husband keeps a coffee-shop and beer-house, at 47, High-street, Lambeth—the prisoner came there about half-past 8 in the evening for a pint of beer, which came to 2d.—he gave me half-a-crown—I told him I thought it was not good—he said that he wished he had a sack full of them—I tried it again and said, "This is certainly not good," and while my husband turned round to speak to somebody, the prisoner went away—I showed it to my husband, but did not lose sight of it—it only went to the bar-door—I put it away under a glass on the shelf; and gave it to a policeman on Tuesday morning.

GEORGE YATES . I keep the Little Wonder beer-shop, Lambeth-walk—about a quarter of a mile from Trueman's—on Sunday, 17th April, at 9 o'clock, the prisoner and a man named Wood came—my wife served them, and called my attention to a half-crown which she took from the till, and said she had taken it from Wood—there was nothing else there but shillings and sixpences—I said that the half-crown was bad—I asked Wood where he got it—he said, "At the Jolly Gardeners, in change for a sovereign"—I gave it back to him—he paid for the ale and gave my wife back the change—at that time a young man came into the shop and said, "High! Chumpey," you are wanted, here is the landlord of the Duke's Head—that is Mr. Hart; the prisoner went out and Wood remained.

JAMES HACON (Policeman, L 129). On Monday, 17th April, between 8 and 9 in the evening, Hart spoke to me, and gave me a half-crown—I went in search of the prisoner—I found him on Monday morning, searched him, and found on him a good sixpence and fivepence in copper—I received this other half-crown from Trueman.

JAMES CROUCH (Policeman). I took the prisoner, and told him it was for passing bad money to Mr. Hart—he said, "Very well, I will go with you."

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These are bad half-crowns.

Prisoner's Defence. I am guilty of going into two houses; but where he got the money from, I do not know—I never uttered one.