Old Bailey Proceedings.
14th September 1857
Reference Number: t18570914

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Old Bailey Proceedings front matter.
14th September 1857
Reference Numberf18570914

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A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoner's age.


OLD COURT.—Monday, Sept. 14th, and Tuesday, Sept. 15th, 1857.


Before Mr. Recorder and the First Jury.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-919
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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919. EDWARD HASTINGS (40), was indicted for wilful and corrupt perjury.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY, MR. SLEIGH ., and MR. LAWRENCE., conducted the Prosecution.

FRANCIS WILLIAM BURDETT . I am a clerk in the Record Office of the Court of Chancery. I do not produce a bill and answer in a suit in Chancery in which Price's Patent Candle Company were plaintiffs and Bauwens Patent Candle Company were defendants—I have not the bill and answer here—the order does not specify that they should be produced, therefore I have not the requisite authority—the order of the Master of the Rolls is necessary—I produce two affidavits of a person named Edward Hastings—one of them purports to be sworn on 29th Nov., 1856, and the other on 16th Jan., 1857—(THE RECORDER. was of opinion that the affidavits could not be received in the absence of the bill and answer.)

EDWIN ELDRED . I am clerk to the Associate of the Court of Queen's Bench. I produce the Nisi Prius record in the case of Price's Patent Candle Company and in Bauwens' Patent Candle Company—I have brought it from the Court of Queen's Bench—(SIR FREDERICK THESIGER. submitted that this record was not receivable, it not having been made up, no verdict having been entered, and there being no postea. MR. SERJEANT PARRY. contended that the record was admissable in its present state, there being certain certificates of Lord Campbell's upon it, and an entry that the case was tried on

2nd July, 1857. THE RECORDER. was of opinion that it was not receivable, the postea not being made up. MR. SLEIGH. staled that the bill and answer were sent for, and by the permission of the Court the evidence was proceeded with, subject to their production.)

ROBERT COLE . I am a Commissioner in Chancery, authorised to administer oaths and affidavits. This affidavit, purporting to be sworn before me by Edward Hastings, dated 29th Nov., 1856, was sworn before me in due form by a person of that name—I asked him if that was his name and handwriting, in the usual way—it was made upon the date that it purports to bear.

GEORGE THEODORE WINGATE . I am a solicitor and a commissioner, authorized to take affidavits in Chancery and to administer oaths. This affidavit of 16th Jan., 1857, was made before me in due course, by Edward Hastings—I do not remember the person—the affidavit refers to a model marked "G."—this (produced) is the model—it was sworn on the day it purports to be dated—I saw the person sign his name.

ROBERT WILSON . I am the attorney for the defendant, and am solicitor for Price's Patent Candle Company. I could not swear to the defendant's writing if I saw it to anything else but this affidavit—I have seen him write, and very likely I saw him write this, but I hare no recollection of his handwriting—I know the document very well, but not the writing—most likely I saw him write this, I do not know that I did—I think I most likely read them both over to him—the jurats are in the hand-writing of Mr. Cartnell, who is in my office—I think most likely I saw the prisoner sign them, but I cannot swear it; and with regard to the writing, if I saw it on another piece of paper, I could not identify it at all—I have had a good deal of conversation with him on the subject of this affidavit—I took instructions from him, and read it over to him—I think I was most likely present when it was taken before Mr. Wingate—I think I most likely did see this one signed, I do not believe I did the other—I think I was present when the one of 16th Jan. was signed—it purports to have been taken in my office, and I have no doubt it was done in my room and in my presence—I remember Hastings being there—I do not remember seeing him write—I do not remember Mr. Wingate administering the oath to him—I remember his being present—he attended at my request, for the purpose of taking this affidavit—I do not remember whether Hastings signed it in my presence, although I think most likely he did—I have no moral doubt about it—this affidavit was not filed by me personally after it was sworn—it was done by our firm—I have said before, as I now say, that I have no moral doubt about the document, but I cannot swear to the writing, and I said just the same before the Magistrate—I did not say I had no moral doubt that it was written in my presence—I said, most likely it was—I said I had no moral doubt about this having been sworn to and signed by the defendant, but I say that from knowing the defendant, and knowing that it was written by a person in my office—I do not think he ever gave me any written instructions; I have no recollection of any—I really cannot swear to the handwriting; if I saw it on another piece of paper I could not swear to it—I have no knowledge of his handwriting at all hardly that I could swear to.

COURT. Q. You were not the attorney of the defendant, I suppose, until this indictment was preferred? A. No, I was not—I do not think I ever had any communication with him before that time with respect to this affidavit, except with reference to the present proceedings; I do not think

I should have had naturally; the affidavit was filed and used, and we should not refer to it again—I have no recollection of any communications of the kind—with regard to the subject matter of the affidavit, I have had communications without number—I have spoken repeatedly of the affidavit.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. What have you said? A. For instance, in this way, when I was preparing his evidence for the trial at law, I have no specific recollection of it, but I am quite sure I most have examined him with reference to what he had already sworn—we always assumed that he had made the affidavit—I have no recollection of his having said anything to me about it, or I to him—I certainly have had the affidavits or office copies of them when talking to him.

ALFRED CARTNELL . I believe the signatures to these affidavits to be in the handwriting of the defendant.

COURT. Q. Do you know his handwriting? A. No.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Are the affidavits in your handwriting? A. The jurats of them are—I do not remember whether I was present at the time they were sworn—I think it is most likely that I was—we had so many affidavits in this case, and I went over to the Commissioner with almost all the witnesses—I really have no specific recollection of this particular affidavit being sworn—I have a perfect remembrance of Mr. Wingate coming to our office—Hastings was there, and this affidavit of 16th Jan. was there—I believe I wrote the jurats, and Mr. Wilson read it over at our office on the evening it was sworn—I have no recollection of being there when it was being sworn—I think most likely I was, because I wrote the jurats, but from no circumstance do I recollect it—Hastings was there the whole evening—we were preparing the affidavit from his instructions, and I went over to Mr. Wingate to ask him if he could stop late that evening, as we should have some affidavits for him to take—Hastings's affidavit was to be one of those; I think there were others—I know we were preparing Murphy's the same evening, if I recollect right—if it is the evening I am alluding to, Murphy was there—I cannot swear that I saw Hastings write his name to that affidavit—I think, on one occasion, I did sec him sign an affidavit, but which of these two it was I do not know—I do not know that I saw him sign this affidavit—I dare say I filed it—I did file some, but not all—I do not remember filing it—I think the jurat to the affidavit of 29th Nov. is in my writing—that was sworn at Mr. Cole's—I went there with the prisoner—I came back with the prisoner—after I came back, the name of Edward Hastings was to the affidavit—I do not remember that I saw him put his name there—I do not know whether he wrote it at our office or at Mr. Coles's, he only acknowledged his signature—most likely he did so in my presence, but I do not remember it—I went with him for the purpose of swearing the affidavit—Mr. Wingate came to our office for the purpose of swearing the affidavit of 16th Jan.—the name of Edward Hastings is to the affidavit now—I have no recollection of its being there immediately after Mr. Wingate left—I dare say it is possible that Mr. Wingate left without administering the oath—these affidavits were not important at the time—I have seen the defendant constantly since that time—he has not been constantly at our office, but I have constantly seen him about this case—I do not think I had any conversation with him about these affidavits previous to the present proceedings.

GEORGE THEODORE WINGATE . re-examined. The person to whom I administered the oath at Mr. Wilson's office signed this affidavit in my presence.

ALFRED CARTNELL . re-examined. I am not at all clear that I was there when Mr. Wingate administered the oath.

ROBERT WILSON . re-examined. It is much more likely than otherwise that I was present when the oath was administered by Mr. Wingate to Hastings—I have no recollection of seeing him administer the oath to him—I recollect Hastings being there for the purpose of making the affidavit, and I recollect sending over for Mr. Wingate to take the oath, but I have no recollection of doing the thing itself—it was done in my room, and I undoubtedly used the affidavit—I must have seen it after it was sworn.

SIR FREDERICK THESIGER . to GEORGE THEODORE WINGATE. Q. I believe the ordinary course of swearing an affidavit is, that the person first signs it, and then acknowledges his signature to you, and is sworn? A. That is it—he sometimes signs the name in my presence, and sometimes not—in this instance he did.

SIR FREDERICK THESIGER . to ROBERT WILSON. Q. I believe your brother, Mr. George Wilson, manages Price's Patent Candle Company? A. He is managing director of that Company—I did not know the name of Hastings in Oct., 1856—my brother desired me to put myself in communication with Mr. Day, one of the superintendents of the Company, who had seen Hastings at that time, as I was informed—in consequence of that, I saw Hastings—I did not tell him that I was solicitor to Price's Patent Candle Company, but I think it very likely towards the end of the interview he might have suspected it; at first he made a considerable objection to tell me anything at all about it—he said, "Shall I be right in going into this matter, as I was in their employment?"—I said that I did not wish him to tell me anything that had been communicated to him in confidence, but as to the ordinary routine of working, as we could subpœna him to tell it on the trial, I thought there was no objection to his telling me, in order that I might judge whether there had been an infringement of the patent or not—he then communicated to me the particulars of what he had observed, as to the mode of working in the factory—he told his story, and I should naturally ask him some questions as we were going on, but I did so, as I always should do in examining a workman, with the greatest care, to conceal what I thought material, in order that he might not think to gain favour by giving any particular answer—at the first interview I did not take down the particulars; I did at the second interview, about a week afterwards—I think I never met with a witness who has been more consistent in his testimony from beginning to end—I took it all down in writing the second time—no inducement whatever was held out to him to make him give the statement—there was no promise of any reward, or anything of the kind.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. When was it you had the first interview with him? A. On 31st Oct.—he had then been, I believe, about a fortnight in the employment of the Company; he has been in their employment ever since—I do not know at what wages, he gets ordinary wages; I think I should have heard if they had been otherwise, but I know nothing about it—I do not know that he assisted much in getting up evidence for the trial at Guildhall; he has gone about a good deal with reference to the present indictment; I should say he had not, as to the trial at Nisi Prius—I should not like to say that on no single occasion did he go with a clerk of mine, but he certainly did not as a general thing—I do not know that I have personally given him anything for expenses—I cannot say how much money has been advanced to him; he has gone into the country two or three times; he has only had it for expenses—I do not know how much he

has had; I hare not personally advanced him anything that I know of—I do not know what has been advanced to him by my office, certainly not 20l. or 30l.—he went once to Ireland, with somebody from us—I do not suppose anything was advanced to him then, became the person that aocompanied him would pay his expenses—he was away three or four days—that was not before the trial at Nisi Prius—there was nothing of the kind before that; no money was advanced to him, certainly; not to my knowledge or recollection.

WILLIAM MARTIN WILKINSON . I am one of the directors of Bauwens' Patent Candle Company. I hare been connected with that company ever since 1853—as one of the directors of the company, I was cognisant of the apparatus, and the mode in which it was manufactured and used—I did generally make myself acquainted with all the process and the construction of the apparatus; not minutely—I have very frequently looked at this model—from my knowledge of the apparatus, it is a correct and accurate mode)—it was produced on the trial at Nisi Prius, and was looked at, examined, and spoken to by the defendant—this other model, marked "G," was produced on the same occasion, and was examined and spoken of by the defendant—I heard him refer to it—he was in the witness box, and these two models were just beneath him under the table, and he was asked by the Counsel for Bauwens' Company if that was the model he had made and sworn to in the proceedings in Chancery, and he said, "Yes"—I think he said that that was the model that he had made and sworn to in the Chancery suit—there was no other Chancery proceeding except that which resulted in an injunction being prayed for—these are the two affidavits made by Hastings—these are the only two that I know of as having been filed—there are exhibits on the back of the model, showing that it was exhibited at the time of making the affidavit on 16th Jan.—the letter "G," purporting to be signed by Mr. Wingate, has been on it ever since it has been in my possession—it was in my possession before July—I should tell you that it is not the same model that was on the table at the time, but it was the original model, and there was a copy—we were directed by the Chancellor to exchange models, and we each gave the other the original; and for the purposes of convenience, we had an exact copy made, which for convenience was admitted as the model—I cannot say that I heard the defendant make reference to his affidavit, other than as what he had was always, ever since I have known it, a separate flue, in which the pipes were placed, and by which it was separated from the furnace—some Stourbridge tiles were at the time of construction placed between the fire and the pipes—a Stourbridge tile is made of a day with great power of resisting the heat—no portion of the pipes was exposed to the naked action of the fire, except what would get up through the little hole, when the damper in the chimney is out—when the damper is drawn oat it makes a draught through the flue—when the damper is closed there is no draught through the flue, and therefore the heat does not ascend—the Stourbridge lumps protect the whole area of the space upon which the pipes rested—I have never seen it in any other way than that—from the time this apparatus was constructed and put in operation, up to the time these proceedings occurred, I saw the apparatus very frequently—during the whole of that period there has never been any substantial alteration from the original construction that I have spoken of—there was never any alteration in the form of construction; I never happened to have seen it under repair—I cannot say whether

the pipes were made of wrought or cast iron—a person could not see the pipes by looking through the furnace door—I have myself ascertained that to be physically impossible—there is a small hole above the furnace door, called a sight hole—through that a small portion of the pipes can be seen—I have seen the apparatus at various times at work—I am conversant with the process of manufacture—I never saw these pipes red hot—I always understood that it was not a portion of the process to keep the pipes red hot—I have never seen them red hot—we endeavoured to make them red hot after these proceedings commenced, and found the greatest difficulty in doing it, so much so that when we thought they were red hot we found they were not—I cannot say that I remember the person of the defendant.

Cross-examined by SIR FREDERICK THESIGER. Q. You are a solicitor, I believe? A. I am; the management of the business is left to Mr. Bauwen, he is the manager—he established the Company, it was formed in the summer of 1853—it was a Company of 50, 000 shares of 1l. each—I possess between 3, 000 and 4, 000 shares, originally I had 8, 000; I am sorry to say the Company has not paid any dividend—I really cannot say whether we have registered any accounts—I do not remember whether or not I ever had the curiosity to inquire—I cannot tell the time when the furnaces were originally constructed, it is a considerable time ago; I remember on the trial I said it was about twenty months, but I believe it was about two years and a half, or something like that before the trial; I have since ascertained it was in 1854, by inquiry of Mr. Bauwen—I was at the manufactory very frequently, and with considerable regularity, almost always once a week, except I have been out of town or unable to attend, and very frequently twice a week, and sometimes even oftener than that; I have been there many hundreds of times—I have not on those occasions examined the apparatus particularly and carefully with the object of seeing in what state it was, because it was not within my functions at all to do that—I did not see the coil of pipes laid, I merely saw the bed which was built for the purpose of receiving the pipes which were to be laid on it; I have never seen the pipes except through the sight hole—I never saw the thermometers until after the Chancery proceedings—I know we were ordered by the Vice Chancellor to work with thermometers; and after that time we did, to ascertain the positive degree of heat in the still and in the steam—I think we began to work with the thermometers either the latter end of Dec., or the beginning of Jan.; we began before the Vice Chancellor ordered it, because we wanted to ascertain what the actual relative degrees were, by sight instead of by judgment—I cannot tell how soon the coil of pipes was laid after the furnace was built; I have never seen the furnace at any time, when the bed of Stourbridge lumps were not there—I could just see the end of the pipes through the sight hole, the turn I mean, it is not properly a coil—I have looked through the furnace door, dozens of times—I have looked through it occasionally ever since I have known the furnace, while it has been at work—I cannot tell you anything about the particular periods at which I have done so, because it is such a casual matter, it is not likely I should make a memorandum in my memory, or in a book, as to when I looked in at a furnace door—I looked in because I think it is a very fine sight to see a blazing fire burning; and when I have been there, and the door has been open, I have just looked down in that way and looked in—I hardly ever go to a furnace without doing so—that was the reason of my looking through the furnace door, and for no other reason until these proceedings commenced, and then it became a matter of very great interest—I

believe the first intimation we had of any proceedings being threatened, Was on 8th Nov.; and I have no doubt that within two days after that I should be down at the factory; I do not know whether it was on Saturday, or when it was—I will undertake to swear positively, that it was about two days after 8th Nov. that I looked in at the furnace door in order to ascertain the state of the apparatus—I do swear it most positively—I do not say two days after, I said I did not know whether it was a Saturday, or what day it might be, but the first available day; within two or three days after that I went down and made a most minute examination of everything connected with it, because it was then a matter of interest—I cannot fix the date nearer than this, that it was immediately or as soon as ordinarily convenient after receiving this notice; I have no hesitation in saying it was within two, three, or it might be, four days; I should say it was certainly within two, three, or four days after receiving the letter dated 8th Nov.—I might not have received it until the 9th, that might be Saturday—Tuesday was our ordinary day of meeting, and I have no doubt I was there on the Tuesday afterwards—the letter gave me information as to the particular character of the apparatus—I do not know whether it would do so to a person not' acquainted in the same degree with the apparatus, with the process carried on, and with the words of patent specifications—either the letter or. the subsequent inquiries that I made gave me information of the nature of the complaint that was made—whether I had got that particular information before I went to the factory, or whether I saw Mr. Bauwens at my office before I went to the factory and got it from him, I do not know, but when I made the inspection of the apparatus I did receive such information as enabled me to judge, and that was the time when the first inspection was made; I did not know as much about it as I did subsequently when I embarked n it—I made an experiment as to obtaining a red heat by means of a damper in the flue—it appeared to be a red heat, but on pushing a steel skewer through the sight hole, and making it impinge on the iron pipe, of course the pipe being softer on account of being hot, it went in and made one of those stars which you see there; it was red hot then, and it scaled off—this is the damper which regulates the heat in the fire place; when this is opened the draught rushes through the furnace up this fine—I should say that that is not the direct course of the heat, it goes round the still, and round the chimney—anybody else is as capable of judging of the course of the heat as I am; there is a little hole, and the heat has to go through there; if you lift up the flue you will see that the hole is at the mouth of it, and it does not appear that the heat should go there to get up the chimney—I do not think that up the chimney at once is the direct way, but anybody in Court is as competent to form an opinion upon it as I am; in fact I have not formed one—by pulling out the damper the heat could be raised—the quickness depends upon the distance to which you draw the damper out; if you draw it out to the full extent it is hot very rapidly, because a great part of the draught will enter through the flue, but if, as. is the fact, the damper is only drawn out to a very small extent it would not—it was done entirely for the purpose of that experiment, so that there was no possible chance for the heat to get out, and by pulling the damper out of the coil flue, it heated it very rapidly—I did not then find that I made the pipes red hot; I do not know that we could not have done so if we had gone on a sufficient time; we went on sufficient time to prove the experiment, in the presence of three of the best engineers in the country—I do not remember how long we went on; you must not press me

too hard, possibly it may have been half an hour or forty minutes, or it may have been twenty-five minutes, I mean after the damper was removed; but I did not make the experiments myself, they were conducted by Mr. Naysmith and other gentlemen—I found the flame ascending very much, it came through this hole, through the part which is nearest to the furnace door, and then it was drawn by the draught for a short way over the pipes—I do not know of any repairs to any extent, of the furnace; I remember seeing the still partly pulled down, I never saw any repairs at all done to the pipes—I have heard of the pipes being taken out and replaced since the furnace was erected—I did not see it done, but they would have to take off the top of the flue to do it, and I should see it—the proceedings against Bauwens' Company in Chancery, were for the infringement of four patents, and there are proceedings against Bauwens' Company for the infringement of two patents still—I should not think Hastings and Murphy were important witnesses for the purpose of proving the infringement—I have always thought that they would be called—they were the only witnesses in Chaucery to the infringement of the four patents; there was another, a Mr. Robert Brown—Mr. Napoleon Bauwens is a brother of the manager, he is not here; he was present at Guildhall when I was in the witness box—he did not appear in the witness box on that occasion, and I can tell you why, as it is as well to know; he cannot speak English at all decently, and the Jury and everybody were so tired and disgusted with the length that it had gone to, that we thought it was a very good reason for not calling him—he could speak his own language.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Where is he now? A. Either at Brussels, Paris, or Leith—I know that he resides in Paris, from having seen him there—he resides ordinarily at one of those three places—when I examined the pipes, a day or two after 8th Nov., they were between two layers of Stourbridge lumps—when I looked in at the furnace door I could see the lower layer, it was the roof of the furnace; in fact, the Stourbridge tiles always formed the top of the furnace—there are two dampers, one by the aide of the chimney, and one by which you can close the furnace, and prevent the heat from getting into the still, by which you get the pipes to the greatest possible heat that the apparatus can produce within the time—alter I heard of the repairs, I saw the pipes and machinery going on as usual—there was no alteration whatever.

FELIX LIETEN BAUWENS . I am the managing director of this candle company, which takes its name from me; it is carried on at Canal Bow, Pimlico. The prisoner was about a year or eighteen months in my employment—he came first of all as stoker of the still, but he took too much, and was removed from that post to stoke the boiler—he left off stoking the still about six months before he left—he had a full opportunity of knowing the apparatus that I used for melting the fat, and was acquainted with the whole of the machinery—he supplied the furnace with fuel, and attended to things generally under the command of Wickham, the foreman—I was examined on the trial at Nisi Prius, and also in Chancery—my attention has been fully called to the matters in difference—I have seen this model before—it is as correct as could be made in small proportions—here is a loose damper here, which you may call the furnace damper—it is never used—it was my mind and skill which invented this apparatus—I superintended its being put up, and have managed the factory from day to day down to this time—the apparatus has not been in any way different in regard to the pipes since Aug., 1855, than it is now—the company was formed in 1853,

and I began to work the machinery in its present state about Aug.,—from the beginning of 1854 we only worked for the sake of trial, and to take the patent out, which we did in April, 1854—the pipes have been taken out, and fresh pipes substituted several times—we always keep two sets of pipes, because when one pipe breaks we have to take the whole set out, but they have always been the same kind of pipes, strong gas pipes of wrought iron—we are not particular about the bore—there is a great difference between wrought iron and cast iron as regards resisting heat—if the pipes were ordinarily red hot while working they would soon be worn out, and it would be injurious to my mode of manufacturing the fat—the pipes were not ordinarily red hot from day to day—I did not order Hastings to keep them red hot, but to keep them at a sufficient heat to distil the fatty matters over—I have seen the pipes from day to day from the time the furnace was first erected—they were generally black, and if they began to get a little reddish I made observations to the fireman upon it, and would not allow it—the prisoner was the fireman's assistant—the pipes would not have been kept red hot from day to day—there is no difference between the Stourbridge tiles and lumps, except in shape—this is one of the tiles (produced); two of these two feet square, and two others a foot and a half, formed the roof of the furnace—this is the exact sire of the front tiles—when Hastings acted as stoker, feeding the furnace, he must have seen these tiles, and knocked his poker against them—there could not be a period when we used these pipes in which this layer of tiles was absent—steam was passed into the still at certain periods, and we let the fat run constantly in—we have machinery to feed it gradually, but at first we have to feed it—the furnace acts directly on the still; the heat goes round the bottom part first, and then to the back, but the heat at the back is not required till we have got the stuff to run in—we throw steam in from a boiler, which we use for various purposes—the lower the temperature at which the steam comes in, the better it is for the quality of the stuff; but to obtain quality with quantity, about 100 degrees below the temperature of the fat is the best heat for distillation—if the temperature of the boiling fat is exceeded it is not a profitable working—I aim at the quality of my article—you cannot look in at the mouth of the furnace and see the pipes—I have seen Hastings cleaning the pipes, taking the soot away—he took off the Stourbridge lumpe, but not the tiles—he had a broom, a rake, and a scraper—he stood on the top, and as he looked down he must see the layer of Stourbridge tiles between the pipes and the fire—the pipes do not lay naked to the fire; there has always been a layer of Stourbridge between them and the fire—since the proceedings by Price's Company against me, I have not made any alteration; there was no need—I first saw this other model at the Chancery Court—this coil of pipes is not at all like mine—it is not a careful model.

Cross-examined by SIR FREDERICK THESIGER. Q. When was the furnace built? A. About Jan., 1854, by a person named Waller, who is the bricklayer usually employed by Bauwens' Company since that time and occasionally to the present time—Wickham is our foreman—a person named Dawson is also employed in the same capacity as Hastings, attending to the still and the fire—we worked the still night and day pretty generally towards the end of 1855—the pipes were put in immediately after the furnace was built; it was built to receive them, but there was no working till Aug., 1855, except experiments to take out the patent—we used thermometers at first, and used them all the time of the experiments, but when we began to work regularly we did not want them; we knew the

heat through the quality of the stuff—we could tell by the smell and the colour if the pipes or the steam had been overheated—after the proceedings in Chancery we worked with thermometers, but I did not want all the men to understand them, I only wanted them to keep the heat to the proper point, to distil over in a proper way—I do not recollect whether the Stourbridge lumps were repaired more than once, it may be twice; they might have been replaced without my recollecting it—the pipes may have been replaced three or four times between Aug., 1855. and Nov., 1856; they were partially renewed—that was in consequence of their being burnt, and leaking, because when there is a small slit the whole roust be taken out—the Stourbridge tiles were under the pipes, and there would be no direct action of the fire on them—a person named Japp was in our employment; he was engaged, shortly after he entered it, in making pipes, for the purpose of putting in a new set—he did that tinder the direction either of my brother Napoleon Bauwens, or Wickham—I cannot tell where my brother is; I can know by writing to his place—I saw him last at the trial at the Queen's Bench, since that he has been in France and Scotland—he did not say, when the pipes were put in. that the coal was to be raised a little up from the side brick work; so that the heat could get under the pipes; it would be the reverse—such an order was not given—I saw the pipes put in; there was always a portion of fire brick or iron placed under the corners of the pipes to raise them up a little from the ledge, but that was not for the purpose of allowing the fire to act on the pipes—I do not recollect seeing Japp kneel down and put his hands under the coil of pipes to take them out—the coil that Japp assisted in putting in did not last so much as three or four months; it was taken out, and another put in—I have got the dates here; the two coils at which Japp assisted was in 1856—I have here, "Pipes repaired by H. Japp, 23rd and 24th May, 1856"—Japp first came to the factory on 13th Oct., 1855, and left on 6th Dec, 1856—I believe I discharged a dozen or more of my workmen after the law suit began—I do not recollect, on the occasion of the second, or Japp's coil, asking him whether any part of the pipes could be worked in, but it was my rule to use the old piping as much as I could—I do not remember who assisted in putting in the second coil, or whether it was put in between 6 and 7 o'clock on Saturday night after the men were gone—I do not recollect, on that occasion, desiring Mr. Wickham, as the men worked late, to give them some beer, but that was so—I cannot tell whether Japp's coils were fastened together with copper wire, or whether the second coil was fastened with iron wire—I recollect afterwards a third coil being made while Japp was in my service, by a person named Weeks, a brother of my foreman—Weeks came to my factory in Sept or Oct., 1856; Sept. I think—he was employed in making the third coil shortly after he came—the second coil had been in about four months—the third coil was put in as the others had been, raised from the ledge by a brick at the comers—it would have been prejudicial to have kept the temperature of the steam below that of the boiling fat, both as to quality and quantity.

COURT. Q. You said the contrary before? A. No, I said that the raising of the steam improves the quality till it comes to 100 degrees below the fatty matters—I am very glad you have corrected my mistake.

SIR FREDERICK THESIGER . Q. Tell me whether, under the patent of Price, the first time in 1843, the furnace was not removed to a distance from the still? A. I do not know—I have been engaged in the manufacture since 1855—the means of distillation, in 1853, was not by means of an open

fire; I did not go by means of distillation—I made trials of distilling fat before 1853, but cannot tell you whether with an open fire—I have made some trials with gas—I answer you to the best of my ability—I do not know whether an open fire was employed or not—I have not said that the practice was to heat by an open fire before 1843—there was no practice then, the thing was in its infancy at that time—I have been working according to the patent of 1842, for diffusing the steam in small jets among the fat, and we have been working with our disk, it is according to the disk—applications were made for inspecting the works and machinery at different times, but persons were not permitted to inspect—I was never in the service of Price's Patent Candle Company.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Was there, at any time, any inspection? A. Yes, by two inspectors sent by the Vice Chancellor—Mr. ex-Sheriff Bale inspected it, Dr. Huffman did not—after the proceedings, Hastings and Murphy were allowed to attend on the premises, and inspect the machinery at the instance of the Magistrate—when Hastings came, he said that the furnace was not the same; there had been no alteration whatever in it—the object of the pipes resting on brick or a log of iron was to keep them free from overheating by contact with the fire tiles; if they had come into actual contact with the Stourbridge tiles, that would have increased the heat—the process of distillation was not employed before 1843, but I had made several experiments with reference to distilling the fat, for the purpose of taking out a patent—I am a native of Belgium—I have not used in practice the process of throwing steam in by jets; that is what Sir Frederick Thesiger wanted me to say, but I objected to it; I throw in the steam en mas e, mixed with the stuff—I do not consider that an infringement of Price's patent, and that is the opinion of scientific men—if steam is thrown into the still at a higher temperature than the fat that is boiling, it would not increase the quantity, and it would deteriorate the quality; it burns, and gives a charred and burnt taste, and the stuff smells burnt—my brother is a chemical manufacturer, and is engaged abroad as well as in England.

JOHN COLLINS WICKHAM . I am a foreman at Bauwens' Patent Candle Company. Hastings was employed under my directions—he was in the service seventeen or eighteen months, during which time he had opportunities from day to day, of observing the machinery—I have seen him, five or six times, cleaning the pipes with a small piece of iron about two inches square, in the form of a rake—he stood with his feet across, and scraped between the pipes—he raked beneath the Stourbridge lumps, which were removed—he must certainly have seen the Stourbridge tiles—if these pipes had been naked to the fire, there would have been no occasion to clear away the soot—I am not aware that he is a person of some mechanical skill—I should not think he had the power to make a model like this—if there had been no layers, the soot would have fallen into the fire—this is a correct and careful model of the apparatus—no alteration whatever has been made in it from the time it was first set up—the flue formed by the Stourbridge tiles and lumps, in which these pipes lay, has always been there—a stoker stirring the fire must have been aware that there was something between the pipes and the fire, but he would not have known that it was Stourbridge tiles—you could see the ends of the pipes by looking through the sight hole only—the steam was generally thrown in at about 100 degrees under the heat of the fat which was to be distilled—that was the regular mode of working—the pipes are made of wrought iron, common gas piping—if they lay naked to the furnace, they would distort

and split; they would not last three weeks—they were not ordinarily red hot, they were black—I have never ordered Hastings to keep them red hot—I have frequently found fault with him for having the fire too far forward, which tended to heat the pipes too much—when I have seen the pipes black, I have never complained to Hastings, and ordered him to make them red—it was the most advantage that they should not be kept red; it was less profitable—the pipes were not regularly cleaned—Hastings was succeeded by Hubert Brown, and Dawson succeeded him as day man—there was no night man.

Cross-examined by SIR FREDERICK THESIGER. Q. Do you work by night as well as by day? A. Yes, but not on Sundays—I was the person employed to superintend the still at night—Hastings worked under me—I was there every night—we have ascertained the temperature lately by a thermometer, but previous to this year our operations were carried on by the rule of thumb, as I may call it, by guess—when the proceedings in the Court of Chancery commenced, we began to work with thermometers—we always worked by rule of thumb from the time we commenced so far as the heat of the steam was concerned, but when we commenced the distilling we had a thermometer in the still itself—we kept on to do that until the thermometer was broken; that was quite three months; but after that, until the proceedings in Chancery, we worked by rule of thumb—it would have been prejudicial, according to my notion, to work with steam above the temperature of the fat; it was a thing which I carefully avoided—I did not actually see the furnace built by Waller, but I used to visit the factory at the time it was building—I was not then in the employment of Bauwens and Co.—it has frequently been repaired since—perhaps there might be a lump or two broken when we have taken the pipes out to clean them, and Waller has repaired them—I did not say that they were broken by the action of the fire—it might be from that, or from us treading on the top—these jobs sometimes might take a day, and sometimes perhaps only half a day, or less than that—we had to put new tiles once, and only once; that was when we put in a new coil of pipes, and their stepping on the tiles got them broken—that was, I think, about eighteen months ago—I could not say positively whether Japp assisted in that, I think not—I assisted in putting in more than one coil of pipes, either three or four—Japp assisted in putting in two, and Napoleon Bauwen was there the first time—it is our usual plan to put something for the pipes to rest upon; it is either a piece of brick or a piece of iron, I will not say—we put what first came to hand which was the right thickness—one split would be too thick—splits were not put in in substitution for the bricks at the corners, the fire bricks being about three inches, and the split about an inch and a half—by a split I understand a brick half the thickness of the regular size, but we used whatever came to hand that was the right thickness—the right thickness would depend on the position of the elbow and on the length of the screw, as we screwed it up until it was tight—I know we never require so thick a substance as a half brick, but we have cut it to the thickness, and then it would not be a split—a split must be exactly half—Japp assisted with two coils when I was employed—a person named Weeks, a relation of mine, was employed on the last—I cannot say that that was before Japp left Mr. Bauwen's employment, but I think it was—I was not in the still room at all times during the night—it was not necessary that I should be there every minute—I was at other parts of the establishment, superintending them, when my attention was required—if Stourbridge tiles

were under the pipes, you could not see the pipes from the furnace door, but if the tiles were removed, of course you could—we sold the old pipes for old iron—I believe some were sold to Mr. Forseyth, which have been tested, and found to be valueless—by tested, I mean put in the forge fire, and tested, and found to open—according to the usual way that the pipes would stand, the splits would raise them from an inch to an inch and a half: I cannot say to the eighth of an inch, but about an inch above the bed.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Is one of them produced? A. Yes—here is a two feet tile—this is the sort which is between the pipes and the fire—there was no alteration made in the construction of the pipes, or flue, or furnace, merely repairs—when I went by rule of thumb, I acted under Mr. Bauwen's instructions—he had made several experiments as to the introduction of steam before the apparatus was worked—I was able to regulate the heat to a very great nicety by means of a damper—the only difference was that I could tell the heat by my nose instead of my eyes—since the thermometer has been employed, I have worked the still the same as before, and the thermometer generally shows 100 degrees lower than the temperature of the fat.

SIR FREDERICK THESIGER . Q. Look at this piece of pipe which we have got from Mr. Forsyth? A. Yes, there is where it has been put into the forge fire, to try whether it was still good, and here is where the engineer has put his chisel in, to try it—I have no doubt that this is one of them—it would be placed in the forge until it became fully red hot; I cannot say as to the whole of it—Thomas Weeks, the engineer, will tell yon that—the pipes are tested, because when they are of no use in the still, they do for other purposes.

RICHARD A. BROOMAN . I am a patent agent. I assisted Mr. Bauwen to make out a specification of his patent, particularly the one of the 10th April 1854—the still was worked differently, but the other apparatus are the same as I described in that specification—I have examined this model—in April, 1854, there was the same kind of division between the fire and the pipes as now, but I cannot say what it consisted of—I visited the premises in the latter part of 1856, and at the commencement of this year, and the apparatus was precisely the same as regards the furnace, but the still was quite different—there was no alteration whatever in the mode of conveying the heat through the pipes—the action of the fire on wrought iron pipes would be much greater than on cast iron—it would wear them out, and if they got red hot they would get leaky in the joints, I imagine, but I never tried, and therefore cannot speak from actual experience—if they were to be red hot, cast iron would be the best material—this pipe (produced) is one-eighth of an inch thick—it is an ordinary gas tube—if the object of Mr. Bauwen was to keep the steam below the temperature of the boiling fat, and to keep the pipe from getting red hot, this pipe would be decidedly adapted to that purpose—I have seen the apparatus at work—it seemed to work satisfactorily.

Cross-examined by SIR FREDERICK THESIGER. Q. I understand you saw it in 1854, and again in 1856? A. Yes, I did not see it between—it was in the very end of 1856, I think Dec.—the still appears not to have been adapted to the purpose—it was for injecting heated air, as well as steam, into the body of the still, and was abandoned, as it was not found to work well, I believe—the alteration was, I believe, to adapt it to the new system of working.

BENJAMIN NUTTRAM . I am an engineer, and have done work at Bauwen's

factory for years past—I was the manufacturer, in 1854 and 1855, of the still, of which this is a model—my men did the pipes, but not the brick-work, only the engineering—I was with them when they put up the pipes—the still was cast iron, but the outside was brickwork—this is a careful model of the apparatus, as I have always known it—I have seen it at work down to the present moment, but never saw the pipes red hot—a man looking in from the mouth of the furnace upwards could by no possibility see the pipes—this model will prove the fact if the eye is put to it—the apparatus is in the same state as it always was, ever since I have known it—I know nothing of the process of distilling—this damper regulates the heat to a nicety—if the fire acted directly on the pipes, they would not last more than a week, or a fortnight, and if they were continually red hot they would either buckle or twist, and would split, and scale, and burn out—the Stourbridge tiles have always been there when I have had anything to do with it, and the pipes, when replaced, have always been put in the same position as they were at the first onset—the apparatus was calculated to keep the temperature of the steam below that of the boiling fat.

Cross-examined by SIR FREDERICK THESIGER. Q. Can you shut off the heat from the still, and raise it by means of the damper in the flue? A. Yes—I was there to superintend the putting the pipes in—I cannot give you the date without my books—I was also there when the still was erected, and was employed there in the works that were necessary—they had engineers of their own, and they might have replaced or renewed the pipes themselves, but I have examined the apparatus, and the pipes are in the same position as when I originally fixed them—they could not well be altered—the still is the same as when I put it up—it may have been replaced, but the principle is the same—I am as certain about that as I am about all the rest of the apparatus—having work continually to do for the firm, it was my duty to go and look after the pipes—I looked at them for the purpose of information; as a scientific man, I always get what information I can—it is natural enough for a man to look at his own work—I look into my own boiler every day—I looked in to see if the work was in a proper state, if it was the same as when I put it up, or if it wanted repairs, and I looked at it from curiosity—I was told to see whether there had been any alterations a fortnight or three weeks back—Mr. Bauwen asked me to look at the pipes—I will not say that I looked in before that to see whether it was the same, but I have looked in many times, both for curiosity and for my own information—I did so in 1855—I could not say at what time, but two or three months following—I was asked to look a fortnight ago, to see if it was the same—the still was the same as when I fixed it—I could see my work through the furnace door, the fire bars, and through the sight hole; I could see near the pipes—the furnace bars were not always covered with coal—it is the practice of an engineer to look at the fire bars, to see whether they are in good order—I never looked at the pipes through the door—I could not see them, but I saw them through the sight hole, decidedly—I could see about half the length of the pipes, about two feet, and could see whether they were red hot or black from that distance, or it might have been more than that.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. About how many times have you visited the premises from the time of putting it up? A. From 150 to 200 times, and have looked at my work to see how it was going on, but have never seen any alteration in the construction of the apparatus, and I saw upwards of 100 times that there was no alteration—I know Hastings—I

saw it dozens of times while he was there—I saw one of the Stourbridge tiles taken off lately, and the pipes exposed—that was to see that the pipes were the same, for the purpose of giving my evidence—I finished putting up the still about Aug. or Oct., 1854; by referring to my books I could give you the exact date, but they are not here—I do not know when they began to work—the principle of this still is the same as when I put it up in 1854, but I believe they have had a new bottom put to it—I believe two of my men were employed by Mr. Bauwens in the earlier experiments he made.

THOMAS WEEKS . I am a blacksmith, in the military store department of the India Company. I was in Mr. Bauwens' employment from Sept., 1856, to Feb. this year—I believe this to be a correct model of the apparatus used by him in the manufacture of tallow—I was employed by him to make a fresh set of pipes shortly after I went there, and made them similar to what were then in use—there was a furnace at the bottom, and the pipes were in a separate flue at the top, and when I wanted to take the measurement, Mr. Wickham gave me every information, because I did not know much about it—I looked through the little sight hole, and that is all I can say—Mr. Wickham gave me the dimensions of the last coil that was in, and I made them accordingly—there was a division made of stone between the pipes and the furnace—they are wrought iron gas pipes, and if they were in the fire they would not stand any time at all, not if the fire was at the same heat as when I saw it—if they were continually red hot, night and day, I should not think they would last a week, for they are only one-eighth of an inch thick—I never saw them red hot—I have not been subpœnaed by the other side.

Cross-examined by SIR FREDERICK THESIGER. Q. Who assisted in putting in the coil? A. I do not know who put them in, I merely made them—I did not remove the others, but I saw them after they were out—they were scaled a little at one end—we wanted some of the elbows of them to put on another coil, and I warmed the elbows to get them out—I do not know what was done with the rest of the pipes, I think they were sold—I believe this pipe is one of them—here is a scale on it that looks like a slime—it does not appear as if it had been red hot—if I heat a pipe red hot there is always a scale on it, and if I quench the heat the scale has a tendency to come off—I believe this pipe is in the same state as when takes out—I entered the employment on 22nd Sept., 1856, and I do not think it was very long afterwards that I made the pipes, not more than a month, at the outside.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Do you know, when the old pipes were removed, that they were put into the fire to try to straighten them? A. Yes, I put them in to try if they would do to go in again—the ends nearest the furnace door were operated on by the heat more than the others—I ran a great many of them through the fire, and put a chisel on several of them.

COURT. Q. You spoke of one end of the pipe as having been very much burnt, is that a portion? A. I could not say whether this is one of them or not—the part that was burnt I should not put into the fire to try—I might have put one end of this in to try it—we sometimes used to saw off the bad part of a pipe if we wanted a piece.

THOMAS KNOWLDEN . I am an engineer, and was employed on Mr. Bauwen's works, in 1855, from, I think, May, till 3rd Nov. in the same year—I did work at the pipes and machinery—the furnace was at the bottom of the pipes, and between the pipes and the furnace was a layer of Stourbridge—I

was under Mr. Nuttram—the pipes were common gas tubings, wrought iron—that would stand the action of the fire if it was a good deal stouter, but these would not stand much fire; if they were exposed to it as a steam boiler is, I should not think they would last above three days—you could not see. the pipes by opening the furnace door, but from the sight hole, if there is a little bit of a flare, you might just see the end of them at times.

Cross-examined by SIR FREDERICK THESIGER. Q. Only just the end of them? A. Yes, no more; I am sure you could not see half of them—I have looked through the sight hole half a dozen times, and on each occasion could see no more than the elbow, and the curl of the pipes—I never assisted, in placing the coil of pipes at all, no more than making an alteration, taking away a cock, and putting in a valve in the place of it—that was in the inlet from the steam boiler to the pipes—it had everything to do with the coil; it was an inlet to it—I did that about Aug., 1855—I also helped fitting up the still, and it was put to work, and I was afterwards called again to make some alterations.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. AS far as you know, are the pipes the same now as when you were at work on them? A. Yes, they are the same construction, but not the same pipes—the cock I placed into the valve was here; about four feet high from the coil.

FREDERICK GRINDRED . I am an engineer, and have been employed on Mr. Bauwens' premises by Mr. Nuttram, for fitting the still up. I was employed in 1854, and two or three months in 1855—this is a correct model—I have observed a division between the pipes and the furnace—I last saw it six weeks ago—there has been no alteration that I am aware of—it was as I had left) it in 1855—the pipes are wrought iron, and if they were kept continually red hot, they would not last a week.

Cross-examined by SIR FREDERICK THESIGER. Q. You have been made to say that there was no alteration since you put up the pipes; did you put them up? A. I only helped to put them up, and in making a connection with the still and boiler—that was in 1855—it was not cold weather—that was the time I was employed for two or three months—the still is as I left it—there has been no alteration in it—I left it in Aug., I think.

HENRY HARRISON . I am an engineer, and was employed by Mr. Nuttram in 1855, at the candle factory. Hastings was in the employment at the same time, I believe—I did' work at the still tinder Nuttram's directions—the steam pipes over the furnace were made of Stourbridge gas piping, which is wrought iron—this model is a correct representation of the still and pipes in 1855—the pipes could not be seen through the furnace door——I had to do something to these very pipes—if the naked fire came in contact with them, they would be burnt all to pieces in a week, I should say.

Cross-examined by SIR FREDERICK THESIGER. Q. Have you ever seen that model before to-day? A. No—the part that I say is the same, is the coil of pipes, and the ascension pipe at the back—I assisted in putting a portion of it together, and putting it in it's place also—that was about Aug., 1855—I have looked through several times afterwards, when we have been sitting down there having our dinners—I had no object in view—I did it several times without any object—I have not tried any experiments on wrought iron and cast iron, but I have seen wrought iron and cast iron both burn out very quickly.

SAMUEL COOKMAN . I am a carpenter, and have been employed at Mr. Bauwens' manufactory. I made this model about a month or six weeks

ago—it is correct as the apparatus now exists—I have known the apparatus about three years since—I was first engaged there in Oct., 1854, I think, and I was going there more or less from April to Dec., 1855—the apparatus is the same as I have always known it—there has not been the least alteration whatever—it has not been altered since 1854, when I was there—I have never seen the pipes red hot, it is impossible, because they are in a separate flue—there is a partition, a four inch tile placed between the flue and the fire, so that the heat comes seven or eight inches over the flue, and they are heated by that, and no man can see the pipes; I defy him—as to seeing the pipes from the furnace, I might as well tell you that I could see the second floor of a house from the front door.

Cross-examined by SIR FREDERICK THESIGER. Q. Are you still employed at Bauwens'? A. No—I left about six months ago, after I made the pattern—I work there when he wants me, doing jobs, and repairing—I had nothing to do with the working of the still—I went there only when I was sent for, and was paid for my jobs as I did them—I made the pattern of the still originally, in 1855, but the furnace remained as it was—I had nothing to do with the pipes and the furnace, except copying the pattern of them—I suppose that they adhered to my pattern—I have been in the still room many times when the apparatus has been at work—I have looked in at the furnace door, and have had a warm there in the morning—I looked in for heat, and I got it—I did so three or four mornings in a week—the still is in the same state now as when I took the pattern, and the same as when I went there.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. In order to take the pattern, was it necessary to make yourself acquainted with the process? A. Yes—I was told to make it as the thing stood—it has never been altered—neither the still nor the furnace have been altered, nor any of the brick work—the still works the same as when placed there.

HENRY HARVEY . I am a master plumber. In 1855 and 1854, I was employed in Mr. Bauwens' factory—I had opportunities of seeing the furnace and the still of the distilling apparatus—I saw the steam pipes when they were placed in the furnace—there was a Stourbridge tile between the pipes and the fire—this model correctly represents it—I have had occasion to look through the furnace door, and could not see the pipes—they are made of gas tubing, wrought iron—if pipes such as these were exposed to the naked action of the fire they would have melted, or would not have stood two days—I have been there once or twice a week since, and I never go without going into the still room—there has been no alteration in it's construction.

Cross-examined by SIR FREDERICK THESIGER. Q. Did you look to see whether there had been any alterations? A. No; the furnace door was not left open, but if I wanted a light I should lift it up, and that was the way I looked in—there had been no alteration from 1853 down to the present time—you can see the pipes through the sight hole, and I have seen them, perhaps, a dozen times, when they were taken out and others placed in—you cannot see far through the sight hole—you may see three feet through the hole, but not three feet of the pipes—the bend of the pipes may be a foot from the sight hole, but I never measured it—it is more than six inches.

JAMES WALLER . In the spring of 1856 I went to work at Mr. Bauwen's—I cleaned the soot out from the intervals between the pipes, and noticed

a layer of three inch fire tile between the pipes and the furnace—I have, had the opportunity of looking in through the furnace door—the pipes could not be seen from there—there is a sight hole through which you can see them—I only knew the apparatus on this occasion—I cannot say whether Hastings was there at the time I was working.

Cross-examined by SIR FREDERICK THESIGER. Q. What distance can you see the pipes through the sight hole? A. About two feet—I did not look through often; it was at the time I was cleaning it out, and at no other time—it was about eighteen months ago; in April, I think.

GEORGE CAREY . I am in the employment of Bauwens' Candle Company, and have been five years. I recollect the steam piping being put in by Waller—I remember Hastings there—I had opportunities of seeing the construction' of the distilling apparatus—there were some fire tiles between the furnace and the pipes—they were there during the whole time I was there—it was not the ordinary practice for the pipes to be kept red hot—I never saw them so, and I frequently saw the furnace and operations—I was employed on the establishment for some seven years daily, except Sundays—you cannot see the pipes through the furnace door when opened.

Cross-examined by SIR FREDERICK THESIGER. Q. What is your employment? A. I am a stoker at the steam boiler, close by the still room—the still room is separated from the rest, and the door is marked "Private"—I was in an adjoining room, but I used to go in and out of the still room when I liked—it was part of my duty to go in at first—I used to look after the fire—that was between three and four years ago—when Hastings was there it was not my duty to go into the still room, but I used to go in and out—I had no object in looking into the furnace—I was not asked to look to see whether I could see the pipes, nor have I been asked lately—I never looked to see if I could see the pipes, because I knew I could not do it—the last time I looked in was on the other trial before the Magistrate—Hastings was not there at that time, but he came to look at the pipes or the still—I looked and saw the furnace, because I was ordered in there by Mr. Bauwens—that was six or seven weeks ago.

JOHN EDWARDS . I have been in the employment of Bauwens' Patent Candle Company since its formation. I know the apparatus by which fat is distilled—there has been no alteration in it since I have been there—I assisted in building the furnace originally, and I worked there latterly with a horse and cart, but have not been out since Christmas—the furnace is just the same as when I assisted in putting it up—I have never seen the pipes red hot—you cannot see them from the mouth of the furnace—I have sometimes lighted my pipe at the furnace door—I remember one of them handing me a red hot coal—I knew Hastings when he was working at the still.

Cross-examined by MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. When did you see the furnace last? A. A month or two ago—I have been employed as carman two years, or more, taking out the goods.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Have you ever observed anything like a change or alteration? A. Not at all.

JOHN SLATER . I have been employed as a bricklayer's labourer at Mr. Bauwen's works, and on several jobs besides—I had to do with putting up the steam pipes and the furnace—there were fire tiles between the pipes and the fire, and there always have been from that time—I am still there, but not in the same place—I have had opportunities of seeing the furnace and pipes to the present time, and there has been no alteration in the construction

of the apparatus, that I know of, from the beginning till now—looking in at the furnace door when open, you cannot see the pipes, because the tiles are between—I never saw the pipes red hot.

Cross-examined by MR. BODKIN. Q. Were you employed by a bricklayer or by the firm? A. By the firm, as a weekly labourer—it took a fortnight or three weeks to fix the apparatus—since that I have been employed inside the factory, a different part altogether to that process—I have not assisted at any alterations to the furnace since that, no more than helping to put a fresh coil in about twice—I helped the smith—I remember Japp—I never saw him assist in changing the pipes—he worked in the firm—the word "Private" is written on the door of the still room, but I have frequently gone in when I am at night work, to order my coffee—I did so about three months ago.

JOHN STONE . I am a labourer. I worked at Mr. Bauwens' when the apparatus was put up, and I saw it a fortnight or three weeks ago—I did not take particular notice of how the pipes were laid—I looked into the mouth of the furnace about three weeks ago—I could see no pipes, because they are on the top of the tiles, and the tiles are on the fire—when I put it up it was in the same state.

(At the rising of the Court, MR. SERJEANT PARRY. requested that the postea might be made up in the presence of Mr. Straight, so that the record might be given in evidence. SIR FREDERICK THESIGER. contended that application should have been made to a Judge before the trial came on. THE RECORDER. stated that he would allow anything to be done which the officer of the Court thought fit: its being in his hands should not prevent anything being done to it which ought to be done. At the opening of the Court on Tuesday morning, MR. SERJEANT PARRY. requested the Court to receive the record in evidence, the postea being endorsed upon it by Mr. Wilkinson, the solicitor for the prosecution, with the consent of Mr. Eldred, the clerk to the associate; Mr. Eldred stated that it had not been done under his directions, out that he understood that what had been done was with his Lordship's sanction. THE COURT. considered that, as the record had been altered when out of lawful custody, it could not be received.)

EDWIN WICKHAM . I am a brewer. My brother is in the employment of Bauwens' Patent Candle Company—I have been in the habit of frequently calling at the company's establishment for the purpose of seeing my brother, daring the early part of the present year, and at times during the whole of last year—I have frequently on these occasions seen the apparatus at work—I have not taken particular notice of it's construction, but I know something about it—I have taken the opportunity to look at the furnace—I could not see the construction of the steam pipes over the furnace—I have seen the pipes—there was something between them and the fire that appeared to be fire bricks—I could not see the pipes through the furnace door—I have seen that model before—I believe it faithfully represents the position of the pipes, but I could only see the end of the pipes from the sight hole—I have never seen the pipes uncovered—it has been only through the sight hole that I have seen them—I have seen them as many as six or seven times—when looking through the sight hole they have been nearly black, or a dark colour—they have never appeared to me to be red, or anything like it.

Cross-examined by SIR FREDERICK THESIGER. Q. What do you mean by "nearly black"? A. A very dark brown, something approaching to black—I could not tell the exact colour of them—the first time I looked through

the furnace door to see if I could see anything, was when I went to see my brother, when he was feeding the furnace—I should say that that was about the beginning of last year—I was not asked to look in—the door of the furnace goes, up with a slide, and it was lifted up to enable my brother to throw the coals on—I looked in at that time, when he was throwing the coals on—he shut the door down when he had thrown the coals on—I was not asked at any tune particularly to look in at the furnace to see whether I could see the pipes—I did not do so at the beginning of this year—I have looked at them this year—nobody has asked me to look at them this year—it was the first time I visited my brother, and he was explaining the working of the still to me—it is more than twelve months ago—it was probably idle curiosity that induced me to look in at other times, having no object at all—I have looked through the sight hole, six or seven times, I should say—I could only see the ends of the pipes; I could not see half way down them, only just the front of them.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Have you ever visited any other factories? A. Not candle factories, only a brewery.

WILLIAM WALLER . I am a bricklayer. I have been employed for the last four years at Bauwens' Patent Candle Company. What I had to do was the brick work—I know all the brick work—I made the original brick work when the still was put up—I laid every brick of it—I have had several opportunities since then of seeing the still at work—I have seen that model; it is quite correct—ever since the furnace has been set up, it has been the very same thing as it is now—I never saw the pipes red hot—they have been at a black heat when I have seen them—I have never seen the pipes naked to the fire—I have seen a three inch Stourbridge fire tile, two feet square, between the pipes and the fire—that has been there ever since the day it was put up—I have looked through the furnace door many a time, and could not see the pipes; I could through the sight hole—I know Hastings very well; I have often seen him at work at the still—I have never seen him doing anything to the pipes—I have never seen him cleaning any soot away, that is always done by the bricklayers—I have cleaned the soot away from the brick work myself twice or three times.

Cross-examined by SIR FREDERICK THESIGER. Q. When did you build this furnace? A. At the beginning of 1854; I cannot say exactly to a month.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. You spoke of these tiles; how many are there fixed on the brick work? A. Four of them lie on the furnace two feet four inches square—they have a bearing on the furnace on each side, and are regularly beaded in the brick work—if they had to move any of the tiles, it would not be necessary to move the brick work.

SIR FREDERICK THESIGER . Q. I suppose there was a ledge on each side of the furnace, and the tiles rested on that ledge? A. Yes, on the fire lumps, three feet long and six inches thick, and the fire tile rested on the lumps on each side; they were regularly bedded in with fire clay—the ends of them were bedded in, and sideways as well—there was nothing at all over them, resting on them—I recollect very well when the furnace was first set to work, but there has been a little alteration to it since I built it—it was set to work about two months after I first set it, in 1854, and it has been at work ever since, down to the present time—it is as it was the first day I set it—there has been an alteration of the still since I completed it, but not of the furnace—there has been one new Stourbridge tile put in since—if the Stourbridge tile is taken out, you can see the pipes from the

furnace door—the tile was two feet square—you are obliged to steep a trifle to look in at the door to see the Stourbridge tile—repairs were done by me twice, but not the whole of them—it was about eighteen months after I had erected the furnace that I made a little alteration to the still—there was no alteration to the furnace; I pointed it up with fine elay, and put an extra lump on the top—they will fly with the fire—it is about eight or ten months back since I pat the fire lump on—I have done no repairs to the furnace, only cleared it out, and made it good again—that was in the present year—there has been one new tile put; I put it myself—I cannot say exactly what month that was, it is fifteen months ago—that is the same occasion that I am speaking to, when I put the new tile in—this is not what I call the additional lump—the lump is beneath, and the life is above—the addition I made was a new tile, about fifteen months ago, and a fresh lump eight or ten months ago—it was a mistake my saying that I had only done repairs once to the furnace, I have done so twice—I have had the rheumatics so bad in my head that I have lost all recollection—I was paid for this without a bill—I never keep no books, and I am employed by the hour—I have put two Stourbridge lumps up since I first put the furnace up, one tile and one lump—the soot that I have cleaned away was not very black—the lump that was burnt away was over the pipes; it flew by fire—the alteration in the still was made About eighteen months after it was set—I think I have spoken about the alteration of the still before to day; I cannot say whether I have or not—I have not said a word to anybody yesterday or this morning on the subject of the still, nor anybody to me.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Was there an alteration in the still about eighteen months after it was first erected? A. Yes, I did the whole of it—I speak from my own knowledge—I have never been told it by anybody—it is what I myself did—as near as I can recollect, it is about fifteen months ago since I pat in the new tile at the bottom of the pipes—I know nothing at all about the working—Mr. Bauwens was working at it, and superintending it during the eighteen months—the furnace has remained the very same that it in now from the time it was put op until the present hour.

COURT. Q. Do you know what became of the old tile? A. I believe it has been used up—I could produce several pieces, but I cannot say as to the whole—they were left on the premises of my master.

SAMUEL BURGESS . I have been for many years foreman of the tallow pressing at Bauwens' Patent Candle Company, I remember the furnace being erected, and the still constructed—the pipes of the furnace were exactly the same as this model; it is a correct representation—there were Stourbridge tiles between the pipes and the fire, and it was not possible for the fire to affect the pipes—the construction has remained substantially the same to the present time—it is not possible to see the pipes by looking through the furnace door—they can be seen by looking through the sight hole when there is a fire—I have never seen them red hot—you may see the hot air, but as to seeing the pipes red hot, it is a thing impossible—the fire playing betwixt them might seem to be a little red, but they were never red with heat—I remember the flue which contained them being cleaned—soot used to collect in it—Hastings was employed there a portion of the time I was there, as stoker, and I saw him once engaged in cleaning out the flue.

Cross-examined by SIR FREDERICK THESIGER. Q. Do you remember the erection of the furnace? A. Yes—it is in the same state now, there has

been no alteration but repairs—I do not mean to say that the same tiles are there—I suppose the front tile may have been replaced once or twice in the two years—Waller replaced them—I cannot tell you the date—it may be eighteen months ago one time; the fire burnt away the first tile, and there was a bar put under to support it—I looked out the bar, and laid it there, and Waller laid the fire clay under it—on one occasion James Waller cleaned out the flue—everything in the way of repairs was done by Waller—I recollect that one of the tiles remained for some time in a naked state, but not so that there was any injury to the pipes—the bar was placed under as soon as it was observable—it was done immediately; it was not allowed to remain any time—the soot was of a light reddish colour.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. You said that about eighteen months ago you remember a tile being replaced; do you remember any tile having being replaced since then? A. It might have been ten months ago, the last time—there was only one new tile put up, and the bar—when the bar got destroyed the new tile was put—it was not before Hastings came into the employ, but while he was there—the bar remained there five or six months but I cannot say how long.

DANIEL DAWSON . I am in Mr. Bauwens' employ, and have been so rather more than two years—Hastings was there while I was there—I was then during the whole time he was—his duty, while I was there, was night man to the still—he had an opportunity of knowing it's construction, and how the pipes were laid—I know the apparatus, this is a truthful model of it—I never saw the pipes red hot—you cannot see them by looking through the mouth of the furnace—the pipes were never naked to the fire, without the intervention of the tiles, while I was there—my duty was to attend to the fire and the still, and to take the pail away as it was filled—I had not orders to keep the pipes red hot—some portion of the pipes could be seen through the sight hole—I have seen the defendant clean the soot from the pipes—I cannot say how often.

Cross-examined by SIR FREDERICK THESIGER. Q. Was your business at the still? A. Yes—it was worked night and day; there was no cessation, except on Sunday—there was a coil of pipes, the elbows of which were destroyed by the fire—the pipes were not destroyed, but we were obliged to renew them—they have been renewed two or three times since I have been there—I remember Japp—he took the coil out the first time, and I assisted him, and in putting it in also—Napoleon Bauwens has been there several times, but I cannot call to mind which time he assisted—I remember giving instructions to put four little pieces of iron under the coil, for the purpose of raising it, to keep it from the lumps, and to enable the draught to get between the lumps and the pipes, as well as over the top, so that they should be all alike—I have looked through the sight hole, and seen the elbows and the end of the coil of pipes, but I never measured how far down—the pipes measure four feet two or three inches—I could not see more than half a foot of the coil beyond the elbows, I cannot say exactly—I do not remember putting in the second coil with Japp—I have worked late when all the workmen were gone, but not with Japp—I do not remember working with him late on Saturday, not between 5 and 6 o'clock, when the second coil was put in—I will not swear I did not—Mr. Bauwens has frequently ordered us to have some beer on account of our late working, but I do not remember it at the still—the beer does not refresh my recollection about it—I do not think we should have done it, because we do not want to work on Sunday—I never saw the pipes red hot—I know a person named Prigmore,

he passed for an engineer, and was employed at the factory—I remember his asking me to let him look in at the sight hole—I did not lift up the door of the furnace; I opened the sight hole, and let him look in—he did not say, "Why, Dawson, they are red hot; is that right?"—I did not say, "It is all right; we are forced to have them red hot, or we could not work the stuff"—I know a person named Reece; he did not say to me, "If you want your fire doors open, what do you want to put so many coals on for!"—I did not say that the pipes were not hot enough, that I was obliged to make up a great fire, and now they were too hot—he did not ask me how I knew they were too hot—I did not point to the bend of the pipe outside, between the furnace and the still, nor was it red hot at the time.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Could any person have seen the pipes, whether they were red hot or otherwise, if you had lifted the furnace door? A. They could not—Prigmore may have said, "Take out the sight hole, and let me look in"—the pipes were not red hot at that time—Reece did not see the pipes red hot—the pipes were repaired, because the elbows were a little gone by the fire, just on the front of the elbow—the fire had passed through up the draught hole—if one pipe is out of order the whole is out of order, because the coil cannot be taken to pieces.

ROBERT TUFFIELD . I am a labourer, and have worked over two years as Bauwens' Patent Candle Company—I have repeatedly seen the still and furnace—there was fire tile between the pipes and the furnace—I have never seen the pipes red hot—you cannot see them through the furnace door—you may just discern the ends of them through the sight hole—I never saw any alteration in the construction of the apparatus while I was there.

Cross-examined by SIR FREDERICK THESIGER. Q. Were parts of the furnace worn out, and renewed from time to time? A. I believe Mr. Waller did them a time or two—the lumps were burnt away, and he took them away, and put new ones up several times, as they were burnt by the fire sufficiently to make new ones necessary—I mean the fire tiles when I speak of the lumps—I do not remember whether the whole of them was renewed—I have seen the front fire tile taken out—you can then see the pipes from the furnace door, but not when they are in—I am still in the employment of the Company.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. What is your particular business? A. I work at the pan—that is a little way from the still—I do not know how many lumps Mr. Waller removed, but I have seen him take one or two out of the top.

COURT. Q. Did you assist? A. I helped him ones to do a little brick work, but I never assisted him—I have gone in and put while he has been doing it.

WILLIAM KNIGHT . I am a gas fitter at the Phoenix Gas Works, and have been employed at these works—I assisted at the erection of the still, in 1854—this one is a truthful model of it, the other is not—I saw it three weeks or a month ago—the pipes are in a kind of chamber, formed of Stourbridge tiles and bricks—I have known no alterations at all—I have never seen the pipes red hot—I have never seen it, except in course of erection.

WILLIAM BURGESS . I am landlord of the premises where Bauwens' Patent Candle Company is carried on. I have frequently seen the apparatus, but have not seen the slightest alteration—I have never seen the pipes red hot—I have visited the premises two or three days a week on an average for three or four years—I believe this model to be correct.

Cross-examined by SIR FREDERICK THESIGER. Q. What was your object in going to the premises? A. I frequently took friends there to see the manufactory—I am not a shareholder. (MR. SERJEANT PARRY. drew the attention of the Court to the case of Carpenter and Jones, in Moody and Malkin's Reports, page 315, in which the record was produced without a postea; and Lord Tenterden held that the officer's minute was sufficient.

THE COURT. considered that the postea was admissible, if the writing of the officer was proved.)

WILLIAM GEORGE COOPER . I am Lord Campbell's principal clerk. The writing on this record is that of the Associate's acting clerk at Guildhall, Mr. Davis—it was entered immediately after the evidence was given.

COURT. Q. customary to have it on the Jury panel? A. Ever since I have been there, and; I believe long before—that is the only endorsement, and that is the usual form to the best of my belief—we always consider the Jury panel part of the record, and never try the case without a Jury panel attached; (The affidavit was here read: it was dated 15th Oct:, 1856, and signed Edward Hastings; it stated that tike iron pipes were ordinarily red hot during the process of distilling; that the defendant received instructions to keep them red hot, and that when the pipes became black, more fire was put under them)—the signatures to these certificates on the record am all Lord Campbell's signatures—he presided art the trial; I was present—the case was tried at Guildhall, on 22nd July last—the defendant was examined as a witness on behalf of the then plaintiff—I administered the oath to him in due form of law—he was sworn and examined.

MOSES BENNETT . I am a shorthand writer. I took shorthand notes of the evidence on this trial in the Court of Queen's Bench, in July—I took notes of the defendant's evidence, and hare here the notes and the transcript (The witness was directed to look at his notes while the parts of the indictment containing the assignments of perjury were read over to him, and he stated that they were correct.)

DANIEL DAWSON . re-examined. I never received instructions to keep the pipes red hot—the defendant never received such instructions, to my knowledge—I do not know that anybody in the employment had such instructions. Witnesses for the Defence.

JOHN HENRY JAPP . I am a stoker, and live in Rowland Row; Pimlico. I was in the employment of Bauwens' Patent Candle Company sixteen or seventeen months—I left a fortnight find three days before Christmas day, which I believe was on a Thursday—a number of men were all discharged together, and it was stated that there was an injunction laid against the Company from Price's people—I was discharged in a public house—no fault was found with me—I went there first as a labourer—I was first employed in fitting some steam pipes and other things up, in the smith's shop—the morning I went there Hastings was employed there—I think what I was employed on was thirty feet of inch and a half pipe—after that I made a boil of steam pipes, the new piping—I had never seen the furnace previous to making the coil of pipe—in the first instance, Mr. Napoleon Bauwens came to me with a roll of pipe, and asked me how long it would take to cut a thread on it—I said a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes, and he Brought several lengths—we put the coil which he made into some brick work adjacent to the still, on the top of the furnace—that was the first time I had seen the furnace—the top had been taken off to get the coil of pipes out that was there previously—I did not assist in taking out the old coil, but I saw it lying in the shop afterwards—the pipes were burnt—four of us

took the new coil from the smith's shop, carried it to the furnace, and rested it in its bed, and Wickham went to Mr. Napoleon Bauwens to find out whether it was suitable—he came and said that the heat could not get under the side pipes, and told us to raise it—we raised it with half a fire brick at each end, so as to allow a play round the coil; but the half fire brick was too high, and we altered it by putting what they call a slip—when that was done the coil rested on standards on one end, and a fire lump at the other, and was covered with sand—I could not see anything between the pipes and the fire—there were no Stourbridge tiles at that time—if there were I must have seen them—we had occasion to lift up the pipes while fixing them, and I knelt down, on the two surfaces, and had a great deal of trouble to get my hand down—I could not get it on the other side to put the bit of slip in, so I put my hand down in the centre of the coil to put it in, and am able to say that down the middle, underneath the coil, there was nothing between there and the fire—there was a space—after the coil was put in we tied it up with some copper wire to keep it up as a fixture, and we noticed how long the copper wire lasted—it was a question among us every morning, whether the copper wire had given way—we looked through the sight hole to see how the heat was, on the pipes, and they were red hot—it was work which I had not been on previously, and I took an interest in it, and looked at it often, and on such occasions the pipes were red hot—I have looked through the furnace door and seen the pipes, but if there had been Stourbridge tiles between the pipes and the fire I could not have done so—that coil lasted nearly six months; and Mr. Bauwens, the master, came and told me he wanted me and some one else to do some work—it was to make a new coil of pipes for the still—I saw the old coil taken out for me—it was resting on the bits of tiling, as we had put it in—there were no Stourbridge lumps, only a fire lump for it to rest upon, but nothing in the centre between it and the fire—the coil was most dreadfully burnt, and I made a new one out of second hand pipes, and put that in—I cannot say the day, because it was regular work—there was a question asked, "These last pipes being new lasted six months, I wonder how long these will last, being made out of second hand pipes?"—I worked the old ones in, having cut the middle out of them to make a long length—the middles were the strongest—I took the best parts—we commenced to put them in on the Friday night, me and a man named Dawson; we left it on Friday night, and we had it in on Saturday night, I believe—Hastings assisted to carry the coil from the workshop to the place, but not at any other part of the workmanship—that coil was put down on the same principle as the previous one—there were no Stourbridge tiles between it and the furnace—it rested the same as the other—it was put in in the same way, and we had the directions from Mr. Napoleon Bauwens—we lashed these together with iron wire, and passed the steam through to see that it was all right before we left it—there was a question whether the iron wire would last longer than the copper wire—I saw it at work frequently, and the pipes were red hot—I cannot say that I took the trouble to look at them through the furnace door, because there was this peep hole which I had made the sketch for, and I could see through that that the pipes were red hot—that coil lasted some weeks longer than the other—when they were burnt out, a third coil was put in by Weeks—I was the stoker at that time—I cannot say when Weeks came—he was discharged after the Crimean war, and came to work there—the second coil was taken out some six or eight weeks before Christmas, but I did not see

it—I did not notice the furnace at work after the third coil was put in—I stayed there till Christmas, and Hastings left some weeks before.

Cross-examined. Q. If I understand you right, there never were any Stourbridge lumps between the pipes and the fire? A. There was one at each end—I will swear there were not four—this tile produced is not what I mean; it is termed a tile, but it is about this width—such a tile as this was never in existence there from the time I came till I was discharged, at least I will not swear to the last part of the time, because I was not in the habit of going in—I was there twelve months, and saw no Stourbridge tiles—the pipes did not lie naked, there was a beading—they were supported back and front—there were twelve pipes in this coil; they were fixed together by elbows, but there were twelve separate divisions of pipes, four at the bottom, four in the centre, and four at the top—this (part of the model) is a very good representation, only there is not enough of them—the second coil was similar to the first, and was made under Mr. Napoleon Bauwens' superintendence—I am now in employment which I had rather be out of, that is being here just now—I have never been out of work; I was last at work on Saturday at 4 o'clock—I have received 3l. 4s. in this case, from the defence—there were two subpœnas at 10s. each, and I have been paid for a week's work, which, with two subpœnas, amounted to 2l. 10s. or 2l. 12s.—I have been out with Hastings once or twice, and have received 1s. or 2s. of him—I did not complain to Forsyth of their making me drunk—I have drunk in Hastings's company, and he has paid most times—he did not give me the subpœna and the 10s., I do not know the gentleman's name—I may have said to Forsyth that I was sure I was in the job, and should like to be in the country, to get away, because Mr. Forsyth was always joking, and I have been threatened for some weeks past that as soon, as Hastings was transported I should be served the same—I am not aware that Forsyth is among the witnesses for the defence—I did not complain to him that they had made me drunk, and made me sign a paper—I never signed a paper, so I cannot have said such a thing—I was at work at Deptford, and Hastings came down, and asked me if I would be a witness for him, and I said that I would; I stopped and did my work, and then came up to town—I received the subpœna on the Tuesday following, with a half sovereign, and I did not receive the other two till last Session, when the trial was supposed to be coming on—I got 5s. from Hastings one day; I was to meet him at Mr. Wilson's office, and he was not there according to promise, and he called next day to pay me for my day's work which I had lost—I have received as much as a sovereign at a time from that gent there, at Mr. Wilson's office; it was for attending five days here at the last Session—Hastings paid for the expenses while we were out, but never in hard cash—I only went with him to Mr. Wilson's office—he did not pay for any meals for me; once we dined together, but he did not pay, as I am aware of—I did not pay for it—we dined at an ordinary, with one or two other persons; it was while I was waiting as a witness—I never saw Hastings from the time he left Bauwens' till the Saturday night when he was indicted at Guildhall, and came down to Deptford—I did not go about with him after that—I had dinner with him one Sunday, at his house—I did not dine at a tavern with him—I did not go out drinking with him, no more than working men do to have a pint of half and half—we have not got a Judge and Jury club opposite here, that I am aware of—I have not been giving my evidence there, nothing of the kind.

MICHAEL MURPHY . I am also indicted at this Sessions for perjury, arising out of this inquiry—I went into the employment of Bauwens' factory about May or June, 1855, as near as I can say—it was in the summer of 1855—I left about Aug., 1856—when I first went there I was employed at some preparation of the materials of which soap is made—I was principally employed after that under Mr. Wickham—I know the place where the still Was—I used often to go in there—my business was in and out there—a man named Dawson was employed there at the time—I used to take his place there when he was away at breakfast and at dinner, and occasionally during the day—I hare seen the pipes that convey the steam to the still from the furnace—I have seen them through the furnace door, and through the sight hole as well—I have opened the furnace door—I used to hang some steak on it, and cook it there, as I was too far from home, and I used to stop there to dine—when I have had the furnace door open for that purpose I have seen the pipes over the fire—they have generally been in a red state when I have seen them—I was directed by Wickham to keep the fire up, to keep the pipes red—I did not know any better, and acted as I was ordered—I have seen the pipes in that state many a time—I remember the pipes being changed twice while I was there—once I assisted in taking the coil out—there could not have been anything between the coil of pipes and the fire, because I stood in the furnace—that was the first coil of pipes; it had a little bit of brick lump, as a bearing to rest on, at both ends—the centre was all exposed to the fire.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you before the Magistrate, and committed for trial? A. I was, and I expect to take my trial here on a charge of perjury—I made an affidavit in Chancery—I came to make it through going to Price's Candle Company, and, being employed there, I was asked where I had been employed, as I should not be taken on without a character—I have been in their employ since I made the affidavit, and before that, and am now—I was out of employment, and I went there and asked for a job—I believe it was in Jan. that I made the affidavit—I cannot say exactly how long I had been in Price's employ before that, I think about a month, or two or three weeks—I was not there last Nov.—Hastings did not come to me about going there—I met him accidentally one Sunday morning in the street—he did not say anything to me about having made the affidavit—he asked me if I recollected the reason that he was sent from the still at Bauwens'—I said, "Yes, I do," because he was on the same day at the saponification which I was engaged on—he said nothing to me at any time about going to Price's to get employment—I asked him if there was a chance—he said that they were busy, and I had better go and try—I went, and got employment—I got 3s. a day—I have never received any money besides my wages, except being once subpœnaed, and getting 5s. for it—I was here last Session, about four or five days, waiting as a witness—I did not get paid for that—I got paid from the factory for my week's wages; nothing else—I know Japp; I have been in his company several times—we were working together at Bauwens'—Hastings, and I, and Japp have not been together since this matter arose, except when we were here last Session—I met Japp the week before last in Hastings's company, and went and had a glass of beer with them—I was at work at the time—that is about the form of the coil—it was covered over with Stourbridge tiles—they were rather larger than that (produced), not so square—there was nothing between the coil and the fire—there was no such thing as this tile at the sides, between the pipes and the fire—I have seen that model before—I was examined in

the Court of Queen's Bench—I gave my evidence to the Jury, and told them the same story—I did not help Hastings to make the model he exhibited—I have seen him several times while he was making it, but did not see the model—he used to clean the pipes sometimes when I was there—I do not know whether he cleaned them from soot—I do not know that I have seen him doing that more than once, or how long ago it was—in order to clean the pipes, he should have taken the lumps off the top—I did not see him stand at the top to rake out the soot—Hastings was the man in charge of the still at night—I was managing the stuff for the still for distillation—I used to have a turn in the still room every day at meal times.

MR. BODKIN. Q. I understand you to say that on the occasion of the removal of the coil you stood down in the furnace? A. Yes, to prise the coil up—I am certain there was nothing to prevent me from standing down into the furnace through the coil of pipes.

WILLIAM REECE . I was formerly in the employ of Mr. Bauwen, of Pimlico. I went there, as near as I can guess, in April, 1855, and remained till about February, 1856—Hastings was at the factory when I went—he had nothing to do with the still at that time—I was stoker at the boiler; that was near the still room—it was part of my duty to wheel coals to the door of the still room; I was frequently there—on one occasion, when I went into the still room, Dawson pulled up the door of the still furnace, and I asked him why he was wasting the coals by putting them on the furnace and opening the door afterwards, after my labour to get the coals up there—he said, "I have opened it because that pipe is too hot"—I said, "What pipe?"—he said, "That bend;" that is the outer bend leading from the coil to the still—it was red hot—I looked in at the furnace door, and saw the pipes were more than red hot; they were between a white and a red heat—I assisted Japp in making the new coil of pipes in 1855, and' saw the top of the furnace off—there was nothing under the pipes but the fire bars—the coil was supported on one side, as far as I can remember—I do not remember anything being at the end at all—I saw no Stourbridge tiles between the pipes and the fire while I was there, and I saw the pipes frequently, through the furnace door—they were what I should term red hot.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you discharged in Feb., 1856? A. As near as I can remember—the charge laid against me was, want of attention and care—I am now in the employ of Mr. Cox, of Kingsland—I was subpoenaed here—I got a half sovereign with this subpœna, and one with the last, and I had my wages, which I had lost, at the rate of 5s. a day—I received altogether two half sovereigns, 30s. for my pay, 3s. for riding, and my meals for the five or six days I was waiting—I had a guinea a week at Bauwens', besides my over time, and I get 24s. at Cox's, besides my over time—four of these Stourbridge tiles were not between the pipes and the fire during the nine months I was at Bauwens'—I was examined at the trial—Mr. Hastings found me out—he has not given me any money; he gave me a drop of pale ale to drink—I did not dine with him—this is the way in which the pipes are placed—there were Stourbridge lumps at the top—I have never seen any one cleaning the pipes; I have seen them being repaired—my duties were outside, and occasionally in the still room.

SIR FREDERICK THESIGER . Q. You say that you were discharged for want of attention; did you receive this character from Mr. Bauwen? A. Yes. (This was a certificate that the witness had conducted himself withthe greatest attention and sobriety, and that he was discharged solely on account of a slackness of work.)

THOMAS GEORGE PRIGMORE . I was an engineer, employed at Mr. Bauwen's from June, 1856, to the end of the year. I had charge of the machinery and piping—several of them told me what a difficult job I should have when I had to do with the coil of pipes, and I asked Dawson to show me where the coil of pipes was, so that I might know, if I had anything to do with them; he lifted up the door of the furnace, and I stooped down, and saw the coil of pipes from the door of the furnace—they were red hot, and I asked him the reason why they were so; he told me that they could not work the stuff unless they were so, and it was all right—I said that I was satisfied, if such was the case—I only looked through the furnace door; I had heard talk of the sight hole, but I never saw it—I am sure it was the furnace door I looked through.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Was there anything between the fire and the pipes? A. No—there was no large piece of Stourbridge tile—I left on 20th Sept, 1856—I was there while Hastings was there—I did not see him, or any one, cleaning the pipes—I was employed in the engine department—the conversation between me and Dawson occurred soon after I went there—I was not examined at the trial at the Queen's Bench—I have been found out since by Hastings—I have not received any money from him—I am at work at Mr. Marsden's, in Bisbopsgate Street—I received 5l. with my subpœna, to pay my expenses up from Wells, in Somersetshire, where I was on a job, and I have received 4l. for my loss of time in London—I came up once before, but did not attend—I had two subpœnas after that, for which I got 5s. each—that is the whole.

MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. Had you to come up from Wells, and go back again? Yes; it is about 160 miles—I helped to manage the job—I lost about seven days at the last trial—my master told me that I had better stop, but I am expecting to go back.

WILLIAM FLIRT . I am a smith and engineer, in Mr. Price's employment. In 1855 I was employed for five weeks in Bauwens' factory, putting up some pipes, and helping to fix a little engine, and other jobs—I have been into the still room; there is something marked on the door, I will not say what—I looked into the furnace through the door; I was taken there on purpose to do so, by my nephew, and I stooped down, and saw the pipes; they were blood red hot, and I saw them again at the same heat.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Are you at work now? A. Yes—I have only been out of work four or five days in four or five years—I have been subpœnaed here, and had 5s. with each subpœna—I was also paid for my days' time, 6s. 6d. a day; that is the wages I am receiving at Mr. Hall's, at Dartford.

WILLIAM PURVEY . I went to Bauwens' factory about two years ago, and remained there about a year, as a general labourer about the factory—I have occasionally visited the still room; I have looked into the furnace, and seen a coil of red hot pipes—I lived near, and used to get my dinner finished before the end of the dinner hour, and before the bell rang I used to go and sit in the still room—the coil of pipes rested on brick work, as well as I could see—there was nothing to prevent the fire from getting to the pipes—I was employed to clear out the boiler flue with a rake; that was done on Sunday morning—I had to get to the top of the furnace, and when I was there I could see the coil—if you look in at the furnace door,

you can see the coil; I am certain there was nothing between the furnace and the coil.

Cross-examined. Q. I suppose you are in some employment now? A. Yes, in Button, in Surrey, as a farmer's labourer—my wages are 14s. and 15s.—I received 10s. with my subpœna, and have been paid for my time, about 3l. 10s. altogether—Hastings came down to me with another gentleman—I got no money from them then—Hastings did not tell me that the pipes rested on the brick work—I have never said that I did not know, but that Hastings told me—I have not seen Bastings cleaning the pipes, nor have I cleaned them—I have seen them—there were no large stones between the fire and the pipes—I never said to Burgess that I did not know where the pipes rested—I still expect to receive some money for further expenses.

SIR FREDERICK THESIGER . Q. Was it harvest time when you were engaged? A. Yes—I can earn 7s. 6d. a day in harvest time; we can do two acres and a quarter a day—I was away five days, and I did not do anything for six days.

JOHN HOSKINS . I am a farm labourer, at Cheam, in Surrey. Two years ago, just after the last harvest, I went into Mr. Bauwen's employ, and left a week before last May—I had to prepare the palm for distilling—I have looked in at the furnace door more than once, and, by stooping down, could see the pipes—I have seen them red hot four or five times, every time I looked.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you subpœnaed here? A. Yes—I got 10s. with my subpœna; I had to come from Cheam, fifteen miles from London—I have been paid for my time, 3s. 6d. a day, and have received between 2l. and 3l. altogether.

EDWARD JAPP . I was in Mr. Bauwens' employment from six weeks before Christmas, 1855, to ten weeks before Christmas, 1856—I am a cousin of the other Japp—I used to go into the still room; sometimes I have been in to tell Mr. Wickham he was wanted, and sometimes to make tin bottles, with coffee in them, hot of a morning—I did not put them into the furnace, but into the water, and put a bit of stick through the handle, and waited till they were hot—I have looked in at the furnace door, and seen the pipes, by stooping down—I used to go into the smith's shop, to look what o'clock it was, and my cousin was making a lot of pipes; he told me that they were to be put into the furnace to let the fire play on them, because they could not get steam sufficiently hot, and I looked through the door, and saw the pipes red hot, not only once, but three or four times.

Cross-examined. Q. Never any Stourbridge tiles between them and the fire? A. No, I swear that—the pipes were not made like this (The incorrect model); they were straight, more like your fingers—I have seen Hastings clean the pipes, when the top of the still has been taken off the pipes were like this (The other model)—I have been subpœnaed here—I have been out of work since Whitsun Saturday night—I had half a crown the first time they came to see me and took my evidence, and then when they came to subpœna me, they gave me half a sovereign and two subpœnas—Mr. Lewis and Mr. Hastings came—I also had a subpœna for the last trial—I have had 1l. for the three subpœnas, and nothing else—I have had nothing for my loss of time—I have not had my meals—I intend to make a demand.

THOMAS WINDSHURST . I was seventeen years old last March. I have been at work at Bauwens' factory just twelve months—I first went into the press room, and then into the smiths' shop—I was there when a new coil of pipes was put into the still room—Mr. Burgess and Japp were employed—it

rested on some pieces of brick, at the sides and each end—I have looked through the furnace door many times when it has been opened, and could see the coil of pipes—when the fire was lighted they used to be red hot—I used to go in often of an evening, and of a morning, and afternoon to take the beer—I have put coals on the fire for the men—they have asked me to do so when they were looking at the stuff—sometimes it has been Hastings, and sometimes Dawson.

Cross-examined. Q. When did you leave? A. On 3rd May, about seventeen months ago—I do not know what are called Stourbridge bricks—I know fire tiles; they were put over the top—I cannot say whether the pipes were resting on fire tiles, like those at the top—they were on some bricks I know, but I cannot tell how many; there might have been one, or there might have been a dozen—some gentleman from Mr. Price's came after me, I do not know his name—it was not Hastings, or any person whom I had seen with Hastings in Bauwens' employment—I was then at work at a plumber's shop, in Queen Street, Pimlico—it was about two months ago—they told me they wanted me to say something about Mr. Price's, and it would be something to my advantage—they paid me my ride there and back, and gave me a shilling—I did not see him again till this morning—I was taken to an office in the City; Mr. Hastings was there—they did not take down what I had to say—they asked me what I could say—they gave me half a sovereign this morning with my subpœna—I was not subpœnaed to come here last Session—I do not know how much more I am to have—I have not been promised anything—they said they would give me something for my trouble.

MR. BODKIN. Q. How many subpœnas did you have? A. Two—I received half a sovereign with them—they did not tell me I should have to Attend two trials—whatever was underneath the pipes I could see them when I looked in at the furnace door, and they were red hot whenever I saw them.

EDWARD FRANCIS . I am a painter. I went to Bauwens' factory about twenty-two months ago, and after I had finished painting, I had some jobs to do in the still room—it was my duty to light the furnace fire of a morning—to the best of my knowledge, you can see the coil of pipes by looking in at the furnace door, but it is a long time ago—there was an alteration made in the inside of the furnace while I was there—it was to get heat, there was not heat enough—I do not profess to know much about it—I was only a labourer under Wickham.

Cross-examined. Q. How much did you get with your subpœna? A. Half a sovereign with two subpœnas—I was not here last Session.

WARREN DELARUE, ESQ., F. R. S . I have been engaged in chemical pursuits for a great number of years—I have made a great number of experiments with Dr. Hofmann, for the purpose of getting evidence in the action against Bauwens' for the infringement of Price's patent, in June last—they were conducted with the most rigorous accuracy—we stipulated that we should have complete command of the apparatus, and of the material to be distilled, and have every opportunity afforded for the examination of it, and that that which was left from day to day should be under our seal, and we had all those advantages—the laboratory was completely under our control—the result of our experiments was not that it was injurious both in point of quantity and quality to work with superheated steam; quite the contrary—in the first place, we found whether we distilled without steam at all by the direct action of the fire, or whether with subheated or superheated steam,

that the effect was the same in all cases; but when we came to compare the quantity produced and the amount of decomposition, we found that, without the use of steam, there was a certain amount of loss; when we used the subheated steam there was less, and still less with the superheated steam, and we had evidence of there being more pitch in the first, less in the second, and least in the third—pitchy matter arises from the decomposition of the original matter—comparing the subheated steam with the distillation by open fire, there is a loss of 98/10 per cent., when distilled by the naked fire, without steam, and 7 1/2 per cent with subheated steam, making a saving of 21/3; per cent, with subheated steam over that of the fire without steam; but when we used the superheated steam the loss in two experiments tried with one another was only 2 1/2 per cent; so that there was an advantage of 5 per cent, in the yield over the other processes; not only was the pitch less, but there was less gaseous matter produced—the result of the experiment was to satisfy us that persons having the right to work with superheated steam will adopt it as the most beneficial mode—the difference is considerable for such manufactories—that would be one candle in twenty—I have heard it stated that there was soot of a red character, by one witness, and that it was not of a black colour, by another—that would lead me to conclude that the temperature of the flue was above 800 degrees Fahrenheit, otherwise the carbonaceous matter would remain unconsumed—the red matter is the ash of the organic matter, containing a little iron—that is the lowest heat at which the combustion of carbonaceous matter would take place—I am able to say that wrought iron pipes exposed to such a temperature in a flue, not in direct contact with the fuel, and not subject to be red hot, and then allowed to cool, would last a considerable number of months—I have had great experience, and have apparatus at work constructed of wrought iron, similar to these pipes; but the case is different in allowing pipes to remain constantly, or nearly constantly, at one temperature, preventing them from cooling below redness, because the cake of oxide on the outer surface scales off on cooling, in consequence of the rate of expansion in the iron being different; if it is again raised to a red heat, a fresh coating of oxide is formed, and when it cools that flakes off, and thus you gradually oxidise and use up a pipe; but if it is kept at a red heat the coating of oxide actually protects it from the action of the fire; but if it is placed in contact with the fire, the coals containing sulphur, a sulphnret is formed, and the pipe is soon destroyed—these of Mr. Bauwens would last upwards of six months, because I have had pipes myself exposed in that way to the direct action of flame, but not of the coal, exposed to the action of the fire so as to produce a red heat, like heating by gas in contradistinction to solid fuel—here are several layers of oxide scaled off this pipe, and I should say it has been heated and cooled several times.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you examined at the trial? A. Yes, and on the same side as I now appear.

DR. AUGUSTUS WILHELM HOFMANN . I have been engaged in chemical pursuits for a great number of years. I assisted Mr. Delarue in the experriments he made—we proved the advantage of working with superheated steam—I agree entirely with the evidence he has given.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you examined on the trial? A. Yes, for Price's Patent Candle Company.

GEORGE FERGUSSON WILLSON . I am managing director of Price's Patent. Candle Company—we have been manufacturing under our patent of 1843, during the whole period of fourteen years, with superheated steam—(our

patent is just expiring)—it possesses a very decided advantage over every other mode of working—we have manufactured with superheated steam to the extent of several thousand tons a year—it is the result of my experience that a person, having the opportunity of working with superheated steam, would prefer that mode to any other—it is not true that it is prejudicial to work with superheated steam, both as to the quantity and quality of the product; quite the reverse.


14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-920
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

Related Material

920. MICHAEL MURPHY (30) was indicted for a like offence.

(No evidence was offered.)


14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-921
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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921. EDWARD WHEELER (47) , Stealing 3 pewter pots, value 6s.; the goods of Janes Joyce Ellison: having been before convicted: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .**— Confined Nine Months.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-922
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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922. SARAH JONES (28) , Stealing 2 pairs of sloes, value 1l. 8s.; the goods of John Camp Penn: to which she

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-923
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentencesImprisonment > penal servitude

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923. LLEWELLYN GRIFFITHS (30) , Embezzling the sums of 40l., 34l., 6s., and 13l. 1s.; the moneys of John Porter Foster and another, his masters: also, stealing an order for the payment of 15l. 11s : also, an order for 12l. 5s.; of his said masters: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Four Years Penal Servitude.

NEW COURT.—Monday, September 14th, 1857.


Before Michael Prendergast, Esq., Q. C., and the Fourth Jury.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-924
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

924. JOHN MAY (24) , Stealing 12 live pigs, price 14l.; the property of Thomas Collins.

MR. RIBTON. conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS COLLINS . I am a dealer in pigs. On 25th March I went to Uxbridge Fair with twelve pigs—I put them into the pens in the Chequer Yard—the prisoner came about 9 o'clock in the morning; that was the first time I ever saw him—he asked me what I wanted for them; I told him 24s. 6d. a piece—he said, "Is not that almost enough for them?"—I said that was what I wanted for them—there was a man there, Bill Wells, or Williams, and he said, "Do you want a bit of steak for a lunch to day?"—the prisoner said he would give me 1l. a piece for them, and then he said 1l. 6d., and Wells said, "I will give a guinea a piece," and then he said a guinea and 6d.—the prisoner said, "Oh!" and went away—after he was gone, his man John came, whom I knew before—he asked me if I had seen his master—I said, "Yes," and he went away—the prisoner and John came to me again about half an hour after the first interview, and the prisoner asked me what I wanted for the pigs—I said, "Twenty-four shillings"—he stood some time, and then he and John went away—John came back alone, I suppose about an hour afterwards—I went to the Bottle with him, and saw the prisoner there; he said, "Will you have a pint of ale?"—I said, "Yes"—we had some conversation, and I at last agreed to sell him the

pigs at 23s. 3d. a piece—when we came to pay for the ale, the prisoner said, "You must stop till I get change for a 10l. note"—the bar maid asked two or three times for the money; at last I gave a shilling to pay for the ale—the prisoner took the 9d. change, and I said, "That will make 14l., the pigs would come to 13l. 19s. "—the prisoner said he was going to the Chequers, and we went up there to the pigs—the prisoner then said, "Collins, I am almost afraid I have not got cash enough in my pocket, will you mind taking a walk down the town with me?" and he mentioned the names of two or three persons that he thought he should see; we went down the town, and into a beer house—we went back to the Chequers, and the prisoner said, "Now then, Collins, put the pigs into the cart, and we will go in, and have a pint of ale"—I do not know whose cart it was, there was no name on it—the prisoner then said, "If you will come and have a glass of ale, I will pay you the money"—the pigs were driven down the town—I thought be meant to go into the Chequers, but he went down the town—John got into the cart, and drove; I took hold of the horse's head; I did not want to let go till I was paid the money—I led the horse down from the Chequers to the Castle, 200 or 300 yards—in going along, John said once or twice, "Let go the horse; he is a young horse, and don't like to be led"—when we got to the Castle, the prisoner said, "Now John, stop the horse while I go in and pay for the pigs"—he stopped the horse, and the prisoner and I went in—there were a lot of men in there—I left the pigs in the cart—the prisoner called for a pint of ale, and when the land-lord wanted to know who was to pay for it, the prisoner had bolted, and the cart and pigs were gone—I did not see the prisoner again till seven weeks ago to-day—I saw him at Twickenham, and identified him.

COURT. Q. At what time of day on 25th March did you part with him? A. I suppose about 2 o'clock—he was in my company half an hour or more—we had only two pints of beer.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. You saw the prisoner there between 9 and 2 o'clock? A. Yes—I did not see him again till July—I had given information to the police—I did not charge a person named Baldry about this—I went before a Magistrate at Uxbridge, and gave information about a person named Baldry—William Williams said his name was Baldry—I have seen William Williams here to day—he has had 30s. of mine, to show me the man, and he has not done it—I saw him at Brentford—he said before the Magistrate that the prisoner was not the man—he was a witness before the Magistrate when this man was charged—I know Hemmings; he helped to put the pigs into the cart, and he saw this man—the prisoner gave me the name of Mason when I gave him the pigs—I signed a paper selling the pigs; there was on it, "William Mason, bought of Thomas Collins, 12 pigs"—I do not remember being at a public house, and telling a policeman that a man named Carter had my pigs—I did not point to another man besides the prisoner, and say that was the man that stole my pigs—William Williams was present at the time the pigs were put into the cart.

Q. Look at this man (John Carter), did you never point him out to the police? A. No; I remember being at a public house at Hounslow, and seeing him there—I saw a Harlington policeman there at the time I talked to the policeman about the loss of my pigs—I did not point to Carter, and say I thought that was the man—the policeman sent for me to look at him, and I would not own the man—the policeman said, "Here is Carter"—I said, "It is no go there"—the police said that they had a man in

custody, and they sent for me to come over—I went to Twickenham; the prisoner was brought up by a policeman, and I owned him—Burton was in custody, and the prisoner came in as a witness, and I pointed him out.

MARTHA SIBLY . I am barmaid at the Swan and Bottle public house, Uxbridge. I recollect the fair day, in March last—I saw Collins there with a man named May, which was the prisoner—I did not know him before; I am quite sure he is the man—I saw him about three quarters of an hour—I stood over him that time waiting for my money—he had no money to pay for his ale—at last Mr. Collins paid a shilling—I did not see who got the change—I am quite sure the prisoner is the man.

Cross-examined. Q. Was this the fair day? A. Yes—a good many people used our house that day—my mistress was in the bar—she is not here—she did not try to get the money—this was in the parlour; there were many people there—I had never seen the prisoner before—I do not know how he was dressed—he had a stick in his hand—he did not pay me any money—I saw him again before the Magistrate, being examined—I was not shown him by the constable, I knew him without being shown—that was the first time I saw him again—they did not take me down stairs and show me a number of persons, and tell me to pick him out.

COURT. Q. Did the prisoner sit down to drink his ale? A. Yes, and I slopped a long time; he said he had not any change, and then he said he would give it to the ostler—I told him the ostler had nothing to do with it, he must pay me.

MR. RIBTON. Q. Did your mistress come into the parlour to receive any money? A. No—she did not see the prisoner in the parlour—I was taken to Brentford to see the prisoner—he was with three or four others—I afterwards saw him in the box—but first he was with others, standing outside the Town Hall, and I knew him there.

DANIEL NIGHTINGALE . (Police sergeant, T 3). I accompanied the prosecutor to Twickenham—a case was going on about a turkey—a man named Burton was in custody, and the prisoner came there to bail him—Burton was convicted—I had told Collins that he would probably find the man there, and the moment the prisoner came into the room, he said, "That is the man."

Cross-examined. Q. Had you been previously communicated with about these pigs? A. Yes—I was not at the public house at Hounslow when Collins pointed out somebody else—I met Collins at Twickenham, in the Court—I had told him to come there—I did not hear Williams examined there, but at Brentford—I saw the prisoner at Twickenham, when Collins identified him on Monday, 20th July—I did not take the prisoner at once, because Collins told me he would rather consult his solicitor—he did not say he was not sure about him—I would have taken the prisoner at once, if Collins would have given him into custody.

MR. RIBTON. Q. Did Collins express any doubt at all about his being the man? A. No.

MR. ORRIDGE. called

JOHN PEEK . I am foreman to Messrs. Burchett, brickmakers, of Isle-worth. I have known the prisoner about two years and three months; he, has been employed by our firm at different intervals, in carting bricks, ashes, and sand from our field at Isleworth Green, to Isleworth Church Ferry—he was so employed on Wednesday, 25th. March—I saw him several times on that day—I had to pay him for the work he did, on the Saturday night—on the Saturday I paid him 7s. 6d. for the work of Wednesday, the 25th—I have the book here—I booked the work myself every evening—this paper

(produced) is my writing, it is the receipt signed by the prisoner—here is the book of the hired cart work—the prisoner had a horse and cart of his own.

JURY. Q. Did he drive his cart himself? A., Yes—ever since I have known him I never knew him to send any man or boy with it—his name is on it—I am quite sure I made these entries every night—he carted 3, 000 bricks that day in six loads—the barge is about a mile and a half from the field—he came soon after 7 o'clock—I am sure he could not have quitted for two or three hours—I saw him with his empty cart and his loaded cart eleven or twelve times that day.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. How many men are there under your superintendence? A. The number varies very much—in the summer season we have forty men, besides boys; in March we had about twenty—I had to keep an account of all the work done in the field—this is the hired cart book—I make the entries here every night of the work which each man does—I was first spoken to about this matter on the Friday before I went to Brentford on the Saturday—the prisoner came to me, and asked for two or three days bills of his work about that time, and this bill is one of his—I took it off the file—it is my writing, and his receipt is to it—on that Saturday he received 2l. 7s., 11d.—that included 7s. 6d. for work done on 25th March—I found this bill out for him, and cut it off the file—he asked me if I recollected his being at work that day, and I told him I did, because we had done a thing that day that we had not done for months before—we had loaded two boats and a barge—I did not recollect his being at work that day without the book, but when I looked at the book I was sure of it—I make these entries every evening before I go home—I make a rough entry on a paper before they are entered in the book—every 500 that leaves I put them down—the prisoner attended regularly when we had work for him—he attended on the 24th—I cannot tell whether he was there on 26th or 27th, unless I see the book—(looking at the book) here is an entry of his name on the 26th—he took 500 bricks to Colebrook.

ROBERT STONE . I am kilnman in the employ of Messrs. Burchett, of Isleworth. On 25th March I was at work in their field—I saw the prisoner there, and I loaded him six times with bricks, 500 each time—he had to take them from Isleworth brick field to the wharf—on each occasion he was with the cart.

COURT. Q. Did you know it was Uxbridge fair day? A. Yes; I heard them talking about the fair.

Cross-examined. Q. Who did you hear talking about it? A. The prisoner, and two men named Hawkins, 10 minutes or a quarter past 7 o'clock, about taking one of the horses to the fair?—that was an old horse——the two Hawkinses were talking about it; the prisoner was not; he was busy loading his cart—I was in the field all day—I am never out—I cannot be sure whether the prisoner was at work on the 24th—he was there on the 23rd—I think he went to Colebrook that day, if I am not mistaken—he was there on the 26th—he asked me to give evidence about this matter—he came and asked me if I knew about his being there on the 25th, and I said, "Yes"—I had heard that he was charged with stealing pigs on the 25th, and he came and asked me if I knew he was there on the 25th, and I said, "Yes"—Mr. Peek had told me that he had been there—I cannot tell what made him tell me that, but he told me that the prisoner was there on the 25th, and I knew he was—I cannot tell whether the prisoner was there on the 20th or 19th—Mr. Peek never leaves, only for a short time, and he comes to me and asks how many loads have been loaded, and I tell him—the

Hawkinses are not here—Tom Hawkins said to his brother, "You had better by half take your old horse to the Mr. and we should not have this bother here"—the prisoner was in the middle of the two brothers—the prisoner went with his load to Isleworth Church wharf—I saw him again about an hour and a half afterwards—he came back with his horse and cart—I saw him six times that day.

MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Was this matter talked of in the brick-field about the prisoner being taken? A. Yes—I have known him about seven years, as a steady, respectable man.


NEW COURT.—Tuesday, September 15th, 1857.


Before Michael Prendergast, Esq., Q. C, and the Fifth Jury.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-925
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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925. WILLIAM PROBERT (50) , Stealing 2 pairs of trowsers, and other articles, value 2l. 10s. 6d.; the goods of Evan Jarrett, in his dwelling house, and burglariously breaking out of the said dwelling house; having been before convicted: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Four Years Penal Servitude.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-926
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty

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926. JAMES WORTHING (18) , Feloniously forging a receipt for the delivery of goods; with intent to defraud: also, Stealing 33 pairs of slippers, value 4l. 8s.; the goods of Ernest Hinston and another, his masters: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .—Recommended to mercy.— Confined One Year.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-927
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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927. THOMAS WILMOTT(21) , Stealing 1 watch, value 30s.; the goods of John Davy, from his person; having been before convicted; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Four Years Penal Servitude.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-928
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty

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928. ISABELLA BURRIN(17) , Stealing 1 waistband, value 2s., the goods of Fanny Taplin ; and 15l., the moneys of Joseph Taplin, bar master: to which she

PLEADED GUILTY .—Recommended to mercy.— Confined Four Months.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-929
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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929. EMMA WILLIAMS (19) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS ELLIS. and PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN WILLIAM JAMES . I am a haberdasher, of High Street, Shadwell On 15th Aug. the prisoner came for some article, which came to 4d. or 5d.—she gave me a 5s. piece; I gave her change, and she left—in about a quarter of an hour I found it was bad, and I nailed it to the counter—about an hour afterwards I took it up from the counter, and in taking it up it broke; I kept the pieces—on 28th Aug. the prisoner came again, and bought something which came to 6d., and tendered me a bad half crown—I told her I would go for change; I went and got a policeman, and gave her into custody, with the half crown and the two pieces of the crown.

Prisoner. Q. When I gave you the half crown, what did you do? A. I said I would go and get change—I did not say, when I was before the Magistrate, that it was very nearly three weeks ago that you gave me the 5s. piece—I said that I had three pieces passed on me, and I have every reason to believe it was you that passed the first, about a month before—the sergeant asked me the time you passed the crown; I said I

could not tell till I went home and looked at a memorandum—I said I thought it was about a fortnight—I went home, and found it was on the 15th.

DAVID COX . (Policeman, A 480). The prisoner was given into my custody—I received this half crown, and the two pieces of a crown—I told the prisoner she was charged with uttering a bad 5s. piece and a half crown to Mr. James—she said, "Lor! Mr. James; you must be mistaken"—she said she lived in Spitalfields, and it was No. 9, but she could not tell me the street—I found on her two half crowns and a 2s. piece—she said she had been to Lambeth Church, to her mother, and borrowed some money of her.

Prisoner. I gave you a description of the street, and said there was a pawnbroker's shop at the corner, Witness. Yes, you did.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin to the Royal Mint. These are both counterfeit coins.


14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-930
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

930. MARY ANN PARKER (19) was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. ELLIS. and PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN SULLING REDGELL . I am a corn chandler, and live at Stepney. On 5th Aug. the prisoner came for half a peck of oats—they came to 6d.; she gave me a half crown—I put it into the detector, told her it was bad, and asked her whether she wanted the oats for herself; she said, "No, a man in the road gave the money to me"—I said I would go and see if it was a man who had given me a 5s. piece in the afternoon, as the description she gave me of the man very much resembled him—I went out, but the man was gone—I gave the prisoner into custody, with the half crown—the prisoner was taken to the police court, and discharged the next day.

Prisoner. Q. Why did you not take that man, as you took me? A. He said that he had only 2d., and his brother was outside, and he would go and find him, but he never returned.

WILLIAM CBEIGHTON . (Policeman, K 63). I took the prisoner on 5th Aug., and received from the last witness this half crown.

ANN HERMAN . I am the niece of Mr. Giles. On 28th Aug. the prisoner came to his shop for two penny buns, and gave me a shilling—I put it into the till; there were several other shillings there—she came back again in about ten minutes, and in the mean time the till had been examined by my uncle—she then asked for 2d. worth of pastry, and she gave me a bad shilling—I gave it to my aunt, and told her it was bad—the prisoner said she did not know it was bad, and she had got it from a gentleman in the Commercial Road—I bent it—this is it.

MARIA GILES . I am the aunt of the last witness. I got this shilling from her, and gave it to my husband.

GEORGE GILES . I am a baker. I got this bad shilling from my wife—before that, I had looked into my till, and saw a bad shilling amongst some good ones—I gave that shilling, and the one my wife gave me, to the policeman.

JAMES ALLISON . (Policeman, H 128). I received these two shillings from Mr. Giles—I took the prisoner.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This half crown is bad—these two shillings are bad, and from the same mould.

Prisoner. I was not in the shop till I went for the pastry.

GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-931
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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931. MARTHA MARKHAM (17) was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. ELLIS. and PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.

SARAH JANE DA . vis. I live with my brother, Benjamin Thomas Davis, in Kingland Road. On Thursday, 6th Aug., the prisoner came, and asked for a dress, which came to 4s. 11 1/2 d.; she gave me a crown, I gave her a halfpenny, and she left the shop—I put the crown into the till; there was no other crown there—my sister-in-law and I were in the shop, no other person—this was about half past 9 o'clock; the shop was closed at a quarter before 10—no one came into the shop after the prisoner—my brother came home in about a quarter pf an hour, and my sister-in-law took the money out of the till, and brought it to him—no other person had been to the till—on the following Saturday night week, 15th Aug., about half past 9 o'clock, the prisoner came again, for a common cap and a pair of stockings; they came to 1s. 2 1/2 d., and she gave me a crown—I tried it with the detector, and found it was bad—I told the prisoner I had not sufficient change, and I went to Mr. Howard's, at the next door—I did not lose sight of the crown—a constable was fetched, and the prisoner given in charge—I said that it was the second one I had taken of the prisoner—she said she did not know this one was bad; she did not say anything about the first one—I marked the crown, and gave it to the constable—I got the other crown from my brother; I marked that, and gave it to the constable.

Prisoner. She said that it was on a Tuesday, and that her brother came and took the money out of the till, and thought the 5s. piece was bad, and pat it into a bag with more silver, and took it out the next morning.

Witness. No, he wrapped it in paper, and put it into a bag by itself—I am quite sure the prisoner is the person who tendered the first piece—there was only one crown in the till the first night, and that was bad—I said that I was not quite sure whether it was on Tuesday or Thursday that she first came, but now I am sure it was on Thursday.

JANET DAVIS . I am the wife of Benjamin Davis, who is the brother of the last witness. I recollect taking a bad crown from the till, and giving it to my husband, on Thursday, 6th Aug.—the last witness and I were in the shop that day—my husband came home about a quarter before 10 o'clock, and I took the money out of the till—there was no other crown in the till—my husband put it into a paper in a bag by itself.

BENJAMIN DAVIS . I am the husband of the last witness. I came home on Thursday night, 6th Aug., and my wife gave me the money out of the till—I have no doubt about its being on Thursday night, because I had just come from taking a second business—the money my wife gave me was a half crown, a shilling, and this bad crown—I put it in paper into a bag, and kept it till the Monday week afterwards, and gave it to my sister to give to the policeman—I am sure the crown which was brought to me out of the till was the same that I gave to my sister on the 17th; I had kept it wrapped in paper all the while.

JAMES DAVET . (Policeman, N 349). I took the prisoner on 15th Aug., in Mr. Davis's shop—I received this crown from Miss Davis then, and received this other crown from her on the 17th—when Miss Davis said in the shop that it was the second crown the prisoner had given her, the prisoner made no answer—at the station Miss Davis said, "I think it was on Tuesday;" the prisoner said, "You are mistaken"—Miss Davis afterwards said it was on Thursday—when I took the prisoner it was about 8 o'clock; the gas was lighted.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These crowns are both bad, and from the sama mould.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-932
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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932. MARY O'NEILL (46) was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. ELLIS. and PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM TIMBLETT . I keep the Market House public house, Farringdon Street. The prisoner came, I think, on Saturday, 25th July—it was either on the Saturday or the Monday—she asked for half a pint of 6d. ale; she gave me a shilling—I gave her 10 1/2 d. change, and put the shilling into the till—there was no other shilling there—I had two sixpences in the till; I gave her one and some halfpence; I then took the shilling out of the till, to take it to the parlour, to get two sixpences for it—I then saw the shilling was bad, and I took it to the counter, but the prisoner was gone out at the door—I kept the shilling in my pocket by itself and gave it to a policeman on 30th July—I had never put it with any other—on 30th July the prisoner came again, and had halt a pint of 6d. ale; she gave me a shilling; I tried it in the detector, put it on the counter, and said, "This is a bad one, and I have taken bad money of you before"—she took it up, and gave me a good one; she said she did not know it was bad, and she was quite certain she had not given me bad money before—I said; "I am certain you did a few days since, and I believe some pieces before;" and I told her I had given her 10 1/2 d. change—I sent for a policeman, and gave her into custody—he took the bad shilling from her"—I had bent it.

Prisoner. I did not know it was bad; I said, "Here is two shillings," and gave him one: he kept it in his hand, and has got it now.

JOHN MUNROE . (City policeman). I took the prisoner on 30th July; she gave me an address, which was false—I went, and could not find that she lived there—there was found on her two shillings, a key, and some stay laces—I took this shilling from her hand at the public house; it was quite bent—I got this other shilling from the prosecutor.

Prisoner. I told him I lived at No. 4, Little Norton Street, Great Marylebone Street. Witness. No, you said, "4, Little Marylebone Street"

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These shillings are both bad.

(The prisoner received a good character.)


14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-933
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty

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933. EDWIN PEARSON (28) , Embezzling 25l., 1l. 2s.; also, 5l., 5l., and 4l. 10s.; the moneys of Robert Castle and others, his masters: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY ., and received a good character.—Recommended to mercy.

Confined Four Months.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-934
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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934. MARY WILLIAMS (37) , Stealing 1 pair of boots, value 12s.; the goods of John Marchant.

EDWIN DURANT . I am shop boy to Mr. John Marchant He keeps a shoe warehouse in High Street, Aldgate—on 29th Aug. the prisoner came in the afternoon, with a woman who wanted a pair of 3s. 6d. boots—she tried on three or four pairs—the prisoner stood against the place where the men's boots were—I wanted to get them out of the shop, and I would not show them any more boots—the other woman took a pair of children's boots off the line; I took them from her; and she abused me—the prisoner walked straight on, and never spoke to me—I then looked, and missed a pair of boots—I went after the prisoner, and stopped her; she had got the boots under her arm, under her shawl—directly I kid hold of her, she ran back to the shop, and pulled down several pairs of boots from off the line,

and laid them with the pair she had, and said I should not know there—I know the pair she took; them are them.

Prisoner. He followed me out, and took me back to the shop, and was going to strike me. Witness. I found she was getting the better of me, and was going to strike her with a life preserver; I only raised it, I did not strike her.

WILLIAM HENRY HALE . (City policeman, 625). I took the prisoner, and produce these boots—there were several other pairs on the floor—I did not see the life preserver—this boy is left in charge of that shop the greater part of the week, while the master is out on other business—we have many cases from that shop.

Prisoner's Defence. I have got two children; my husband left me two years ago last Christmas; there were two women in the shop.

EDWIN DURANT . re-examined. There was only a servant in the shop; the other woman got away as quick as she could.

JURY. Q. How far had the prisoner got before you overtook her? A. Four or five shops—the other woman was with her till I overtook her, and then she ran away.

GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-935
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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935. MICHAEL WATKINS(21) , Stealing 1 ham, value 14s.; the goods of William Fletcher.

ELIZABETH COLLINS . I live at No. 46, Milton Street, Cripplegate. On the evening of 25th Aug. I was standing between Milton Street and Fore Street, and I saw Alick Marney take a ham from the prosecutor's, and give it to the prisoner; they went up Flying Horse Yard, and came down a court without the ham—I then saw the prisoner come down the street by himself—I saw a policeman, and gave him in charge—I knew the prisoner before—I gave the prisoner in charge in about ten minutes.

Prisoner. I had been standing at the corner of Moor Lane for half an hour; I have a man here who saw the ham taken, not by us. Witness. I am quite sure the prisoner is one of the men, and Marney the other—it was about 5 minutes before 6 o'clock in the evening.

Prisoner. When I went to the station she said she could not say whether the ham was given to me or not. Witness. No, I did not say anything of the kind.

CHARLES WINGROVE . I am shopman to William Fletcher. On 25th Aug., a few minutes before 6 o'clock, I was sent out to receive an account, and on returning back there was a cheesemonger's cart, which had left some hams—I missed one of them; there ought to have been ten, and there were but nine—I went after the prisoner directly up Flying Horse Yard, but I could see nothing—a woman said she knew the prisoner, and I got a policeman—the woman saw the prisoner, and I gave him in charge.

Prisoner. I was standing at the corner of Moor Lane for half an hour; the woman said at the station that she could not say whether the ham was given to me or not; you did not give me in charge when you saw me first.

Witness. I did as soon as the woman said you were the man—it was ten minutes, on the outside, after the ham was stolen—the prisoner lives at No. 5, Maidenhead Court, just across Moor Lane.

THOMAS ROBERTSON . I was at the window of the Greyhound public house on the evening of 25th, Aug., and saw the prisoner and a man come by who had a ham—he gave the ham to the prisoner, and they went down a turning in Milton Street—I afterwards saw the prisoner walk back with the

policeman, and I am sure he is the man who had the him given him by the other man.

Prisoner. Q. Where were you? A. Outside the public house, cleaning the window—the him was given to you about 5 minutes before 6 o'clock.

ROBERT GEORGE JENNISON . (city policeman, 76). Collins pointed out the prisoner, and said that he was the person who received this ham—I took him in charge, and Mrs. Fletcher sent the shopman to charge him—Mrs. Collins said she was sure he was the man—I took Robertson to see the prisoner, and he said he was the man.

Prisoner. Mrs. Collins said she could not say whether it was me or my brother. Witness. She said no such thing—she said, "I am sure that was the man"—she said she saw his brother, but he was not with him.

Prisoner's Defends. I could not take the him when I was standing at the corner of Moor Lane for half an hour, or three quarters of an hour; I heard say a him had been stolen, and I went to Flying Horse Yard, and Walked half way up Milton Street; the policeman came, and said I was Wanted; I went down, and the woman said I was the person, and they gave me in charge; when at the station, Collins said she could not say whether it was given to me or my brother.

CHARLES WINGROVE . There is no thoroughfare between Flying Horse Yard and Honeysuckle Court, but there is a place where they might throw something over, and go up Honeysuckle Court and pick it up.

Witnesses for the Defence.

MRS. AMBROSE. I lire in Maidenhead Court; my husband is a shoemaker—I came down stairs that evening, and saw a man on his knees in my house, carrying a bam in a cloth, and there was a man outside waiting for it—that is the house where the prisoner lives—I do not know who the men were—I went down a few minutes afterwards, and saw the prisoner at the bottom of Moor Lane—I spoke to him, and asked him if he had seen my husband—I Went home, and in a few minutes the prisoner came into my house—the him was brought into my house, not by the prisoner, but by two strange men—my husband was not one of them—I do not know Alick Marney—my landlord lives in my house, and the prisoner's mother—I did not ask the men who had the him who they were.

WILLIAM STRAND . When the him was missing I saw a man come through Honeysuckle Court, Where I live, with the him under his arm—he dropped it opposite my window, and he took it up again—it was not the prisoner—I know Alick: Marney—it was not him, it was shorter man—it was the prisoner's brother that dropped the him—there was no one with him when he dropped it—he crossed the way with it under his arm, and went towards Maidenhead Court.

COURT. Q. Were you not surprised to see a shoemaker with so much ham? A. No—he was trotting along with it—it was the prisoner's brother—he is about half a head shorter than the prisoner—it was about 3 o'clock.

GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-936
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

936. CHARLES MENDOZA (20) , stealing 10 coats, and other articles, value 13l.; the goods of Moses Hyam and another, his masters: to which he PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined One Year.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-937
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

937. THOMAS MULLINS (42), and THOMAS FINN(38) , Stealing 90lbs. weight of rope, value 1l.; the goods of James Wells Brown, and others, their masters.

MR. COOPER. conducted the Prosecution.

SAMUEL EVANS . (City policeman). On 22nd Aug, about) half past? 12 o'clock, I saw the prisoner Mullins carrying this rope in Barbican—I told him I was an officer, and asked him what he was going to do with it—he said to take it to a job in Bishopsgate Street, and he had brought it from Cursitor Street—I asked him if he was in Messrs, Brown's employ, he said "No"—it is all in one piece—I asked him if he bad ever been, in Mr. Brown's employ; he said, "No."

THOMAS CLARIDGE . In Aug. I was in the employ of Messrs. Brown; I was at work at a job they had at Bread Street Hill—I believe this rope belongs to them—I cannot identify it, but I have used one similar to it—Mullins was a young man in their employ.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Was Murray at work there? A. Yes and the two prisoners—I cannot say what day we commenced the work—I was at work there on Monday, 22nd Aug., and on the Monday before I was working near the prisoners—I saw Murray there.

CHARLES RABJOHN . I was foreman of the works at Bread Street Hill—I saw some rope there—it was broken and laid aside, and another taken—I did not order the prisoners to get rid of it, nor to take it off the premises—I have an opinion that this rope here produced is a part of the rope that was broken, but I will not swear to it—this job was on Bread Street Hill—Messrs. Browns' office is on College Hill, and the yard on Fish Street Hill—the prisoners were in our employ, and Murray also—I think I discharged Murray the same day that I discharged Mullins, I am not positive—Murray was discharged in consequence of some disagreement between him and Finn—Finn has been out on bail; I think he was in our employ for eight or nine days—he way a ganger of one gang of labourers—I had no charge against him, but I fancied be belonged to the same close, and I discharged him.

JOHN MURRAY . I was a labourer, in the employ of the prosecutors, on Bread Street Hill—the two prisoners were there, Finn was under foreman—I remember this rope, it was used on the Friday before it was taken away—I remember its being broken—we laid it aside till the Monday following and I saw the prisoners take it from where it lay, and coil it up—I heard Finn say to Mullins, "Take it, and make what you can of it"—they laid it on one side for a few minutes till the foreman, Rabjohn, was out of the way—Mullins came back in about an hour and a half, and worked till 7 o'clock, and he and Finn west off together—I saw Mullins on the Saturday, on the Monday, and on the Tuesday; I asked him what he had done with the rope, he said it was gone, and he said afterwards it watt to a marine store, in Brook Street, Holborn, for 5s. 8d.—I said that it was a shame to sell such a rope as that for that price, and that I could tell him where he could make a. 1l. of it—he said the rope could he got back by paying the money down again—I likewise asked Finn what had become of the rope, and he said that it bad gone to another job—I said, "What is the good of your telling me such a thing?" and said that it was a foolish job—he paid it was not, it was all gone for drink—I said, "What is the good of your telling such a story to me?"—I did not communicate it to Mr. Brown till the Friday after that—I afterwards went with Mullins to a man named Aaron, to get the rope back—I paid 7s.; Mulling showed me where the rope was—Mullins took the rope, and the constable took him with it—I was in the street, not far off.

COURT. Q. Where was Mullins going to take the rope? A. I told him

there was a place in Bishopsgate Street where 1l. was to be got for it, but there was no such place.

Mullins. You sold the rope yourself? Witness. No, I did not—I have had fourteen days at Guildhall for stealing lead—that was on 2nd May last—that was the only time.

Cross-examined. Q. Where did yon take the lead from? A. From a gentleman in Corn hill—I did not sell it—it was cut up for me—I was discharged, but the real thief is on the same job now—I was never convicted at Bow Street—it was about half past 3 o'clock on the Monday when I heard Finn give the direction to Mullins—there were many men there at work—I was close to Finn—I was in his gang—I was not the only one who heard him give these directions to Mullins—I told one of the men the next morning that the fall had been taken away—I knew that Finn was desiring Mullins to do something wrong—Finn complained of me not liking to do my work properly—he swore at me, and called me an ill name—I said, "If you go on so I must leave you"—this was on the Friday, about half past 3 o'clock, on the very day I was discharged—another man left at the same time that I did—Finn did not complain to Rabjohn that I was not attentive to my work—he said, "These men are above being spoken to," and Rabjohn said, "If you cannot agree with Finn I will discharge you"—I did not threaten Finn—I did not say that if I had not a bad arm I would fight him, nor that I would be revenged on him, and that I would not be particular what I said about him—I know Mr. Fox—I did not say to him that if I had not ft bad arm I would fight Finn—I gave Fox a pot of beer as I was leaving, and said I would go and tell Mr. Brown what he had done, and Fox said, "Do not do that"—I went on the Saturday to where this rope was sold, by Mr. Brown's directions.


OLD COURT.—Wednesday, September 16th, 1857.

PRESENT—The Right Hon. the LORD MAYOR.; Mr. Justice CROMPTON.; Mr. Baron WATSON.; Mr. Ald. HUMPHERY.; Sir FRANCIS GRAHAM MOON., Bart art Ald.; and MICHAEL PRENDERGAST., Esq., Q. C.

Before Mr. Baron Watson and the Second Jury.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-938
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

938. THOMAS GORMAN (23) , Feloniously stabbing Southam Bevington, with intent to murder him. 2nd COUNT., with intent to do him some grievous bodily harm.

MESSRS. BODKIN. and CLERK. conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN WILKIE . I am an assistant warder at Millbank Prison. The prisoner was a penal class convict in that prison—he was brought from Pentonville—I do not recollect the date when he was brought, but I recollect that I received him into the ward when he came—on 21st Aug. I was on duty at the chapel at Millbank—I was in charge of him that morning at the chapel—two warders go with the convicts when they go to the chapel—the convicts go in single file—one warder goes in front, and one at the end of the convicts—on 21st Aug., about 10 minutes past 9 o'clock, we left the chapel to return to the cells—you have to ascend a few steps from the chapel—Bevington went up first—a prisoner of the name of Learing followed—one of the name of Harris ought to have gone second after Learing—the

prisoner ought to have been third—there was another prisoner, of the name of Macdonald; there were four in number that morning at the chapel—as we were leaving the chapel, I saw the prisoner come out second; he ought to have been third—after we got out into a long gallery, leading from the chapel, I saw him pass Learing, who was first—that brought him in behind Bevington—they had to go up some steps then, and then they had a passage of considerable length to go along before they came to a rounding of the building—they kept in that order for some way up the steps; and along the passage—I saw the prisoner first before Learing when they came to the angle or corner of the building, I saw Bevington turn round the corner, and the prisoner was a little behind him, and he bounded round the corner to make up with Bevington—I then heard an unusual noise, such as a scuffle, and Learing had just turned; I could see the other three prisoners—he had just turned round the corner—I could not see the prisoner; he was out of my sight, and so was the officer—Learing stopped, and turned round with his face towards me, and held up both his hands—he said nothing—the prisoners in this class are prohibited speaking as they go along the wards—we passed the dormitory door, and when I came to the corner I brought up the prisoners all in front of me, to see what was the matter—I thought something had taken place—when I came to the corner, I neither saw Mr. Bevington nor Gorman—I do not think Bevington had been in the prisoner's ward over two days; he came to assist temporarily, for two days or so—I will not be sure to a day or so as to how long Bevington had been there.

JOHN LEARING . I am a penal class prisoner in Millbank Prison. I was in the chapel on the morning that this matter occurred—the service was over about 9 o'clock, or half past—Bevington was the assistant warder there—he came out of the chapel first—I was first after him—Gorman ought to have been third, but he rushed past the prisoner Harris, and made himself second—he ought to have been behind Harris—he pushed past Harris, and got behind me—he followed behind me for about the space of fifty yards, then I came to a turning of the stairs—Bevington still continued before me—when we came to a corner of the stairs, Gorman gave me a push on one side, and ascended the stairs before me—that placed him next to the officer who was leading the penal class prisoners from chapel—we had to go along a passage by the side of the dormitory, but instead of keeping behind the officer in the ordinary way, a few yards before we came to the corner, he wheeled round in a kind of a half circle, and immediately drew from his left cuff something with his right hand—I supposed it to be a weapon of some sort, being rather bright at the point; he struck the officer with it in his right hand, on the right side of the face—it knocked the officer into the dormitory, and then he rushed down the stairs—I stopped immediately, and held up my hands and looked round to my officer, Mr. Wilkie, who was about two yards in the rear—Mr. Fletcher, the principal warder, came out of the dormitory, and rushed after (Gorman—I followed Fletcher—when I got down in the ward, I saw him standing in front of Gorman, asking him what he had done—he held out his two arms, and said he had done nothing and had nothing—Mr. Fletcher then sent him to his cell—(knife produced)—I never had that knife in my hands before, but it appeared something like it, as I was a little way behind him—it was such a thing as that, as far as I saw—I did not see the knife found anywhere.

Prisoner. Q. After chapel was over, did not we both come down to the chapel door together? A. I was first, you ought to have been third—I was just out—I never spoke to you—you followed behind me till—I came

to the stairs—when we came to the round part, about five paces from the dormitory door, you wheeled round in a kind of half circle—in turning the corner I saw you draw from your left cuff something with your right hand—I stated before the Magistrate that I saw the blow given—I stated there the same as I have stated here—after I saw the officer stagger, I saw you turn the corner, and rush down the stairs—I stopped immediately I lost sight of you; I thought it was my best place to stop—I held out my hands to Mr. Wilkie, my warder, and Mr. Fletcher came out—in the passage you held out your two arms, and said you had done nothing, and had nothing—I saw Mr. Fletcher doing something to you—he found nothing that I saw.

FREDERICK FLETCHER . I am the principal warder at Millbank Prison. The prisoner was one of the penal class prisoners in that prison—on 21st Aug. I was in the dormitory at the time they were returning from chapel—the door of the dormitory leads into the passage along which we have to pass—if you were going to the dormitory from the chapel, you have to pass along one passage first, then to ascend some steps into another passage—the door of the dormitory is at the end of the passage, about six or eight yards from the angle, not more—after having turned round the angle, six or eight yards further on is the door of the dormitory—my attention was not drawn by any noise beyond the unlocking of the door; that was the signal that they were coming out of chapel, and I went to the door of the dormitory to meet them—Bevington was the first person I saw when I got to the door—he passed exactly in front of me, and nearly close to me, he staggered past me, but the side of his face that was injured was not next me, and I did not know whether he was taken suddenly ill or what; he passed me into the dormitory—I did not then see that he was wounded—there was only just room for me to pass between the officer and the prisoner; he was close to my right hand, and the officer close to my left—I should not think he was more than one yard from Bevington—I distinctly remember seeing two other penal class prisoners besides the prisoner, almost close up to him; they were all in a short space, the length of this Jury box—Gorman went in the direction of his ward after Bevington staggered; I asked him what he had been doing, or what was the matter; I looked towards the prisoner for an explanation; I am not sure whether he gave me any reply, but I think he said he had been doing nothing—he then passed me on his way to the ward, and I followed him—I went down two flights of stairs in going to the ward—there was an officer at the bottom of those stairs—I called to the officer to stop him; some suspicion crossed my mind, and I did not feel satisfied—he stopped at the end of the ward; I went down and laid hold of both his hands, and examined them, and took a superficial view of him; at that time I could see nothing about him—I questioned him again if he had been doing anything; he said he had not, and that he had nothing about him—I searched him thoroughly after that, and found nothing on him—I saw the warder Humphrey pick up the knife at the bottom of the stairs; he handed it to me immediately—he picked it up immediately underneath where the prisoner had to pass in going down to his ward—that was on the lower flight, where the wards are—he had not to pass where the knife was found, but I believe he went along the centre floor, and the knife was found on the bottom floor—a knife could have been dropped from the place where the prisoner passed to the place where it was picked up by Humphrey—when Humphrey brought me that knife, there was a small quantity of fresh blood on the handle,

sufficient to distinguish it—I cannot say how long the prisoner had been in Millbank—I had not the immediate charge of him.

Prisoner. Q. When I was coming down the stairs, did you see me attempt to drop anything? A. No, I did not.

ALBERT HUMPHREY . I am an assistant warder at Millbank. On the morning of 21st Aug., after Bevington had been injured, I searched for a weapon—I found this knife at the bottom of the stairs of a winding staircase—there were spots of blood on the blade quite fresh and moist, and also on the handle.

COURT. Q. How long was this after they had come out of chapel? A. I suppose it might have been six, eight, or ten minutes; I would not be positive—we were all Tery confused.

SOUTHAM BEVINGTON . I am an assistant warder in Millbank Prison. It was my duty to lead a party of the penal class prisoners from chapel on 21st Aug.—I came out of the chapel first; Learing came next to me, Harris next, and the prisoner next—when I was ascending the stain, I discovered that Gorman had taken the lead, and was next to me—we go along a passage, and then have to turn at right angles into another passage, that leads past the dormitory door—after I had turned that angle, I received a violent stab, which I supposed to be a blow, on the right cheek—I staggered into the dormitory door—I did not see who struck the blow, but as I staggered from the passage I saw Gorman pass me; he was next to me—I did not see any of the other prisoners at that time, for the officers led me to a chair—I do not consider that either of the other prisoners could have struck me—the passage where I was stabbed is about three feet wide—the men were walking in single file—the surgeon of the prison, Mr. Savory, attended me—I am not still under his care—I was under treatment for it fourteen or sixteen days—I had only been a warder in that ward for two days up to that time—I do not think I had had anything to do with the prisoner before; I do not think I had been in this ward before, since he had been in the prison.

Prisoner. Q. When I was coming from chapel, along the passage, did you notice me next to you? A. On coming up the stairs I did—I noticed you were third in coming out of chapel—I was stabbed at the dormitory door, and I saw you pass by me.

Prisoner. I might have passed by you to get out of the way; I saw you stagger, and I ran down the stairs to get out of the way, and Mr. Fletcher came down after me, did he not? Witness, I believe he did—I saw nothing after that.

JOSEPH EGERTON SAVORY . I am resident surgeon at Millbank. On the morning of 21st Aug. I was called on to attend to Bevington, in the dormitory—I found that he had a wound on the cheek, it was bleeding very freely indeed—I probed it, it had passed a distance of three inches obliquely through the cheek, entering between the right cheek bone, and going between the gum and the upper lip—it was a dangerous wound—two branches of the temporal artery had been severed—for a week or ten days he was in a decidedly precarious state—the wound has now healed—this knife would inflict such a wound, it has a sharpish point, but net a very sharp blade; it would require great force to penetrate the distance it did with an instrument of that description—it is a dangerous part.

GUILTY on Second Count. . —(MR. BODKIN. stated, that the prisoner had been three times convicted of burglary, and had also been convicted of wounding the warder and surgeon of the prisons in which he was confined.)

Penal Servitude for Life.

NEW COURT.—Wednesday, September 16th, 1857.


Before Mr. Recorder and the Fourth Jury.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-939
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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939. JOHN RICHARDS (24) , Stealing 3 5l. Bank of England notes; the property of Thomas Taylor. 2nd COUNT., feloniously receiving the same.

MR. SLEIGH. conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS TAYLOR . I reside at Bolton, and am a cotton spinner. On 11th Aug. I was at Manchester; I received 1, 010l. in bank notes, six 5l. notes at the bank of Jones Loyd and Co.; and at the branch Bank of England, fifty-six 5l. notes, and seven 100l. notes of the Bank of England; I put them in my pocket book, which contained my address cards—I missed my pocket book, I should think, in five minutes—I received the notes after 2 o'clock—I was brought up to London in a week or ten days after, and I saw the prisoner—when I was at the branch bank at Manchester, I saw two men there; they saw me put my book in my pocket, and I have a strong impression that the prisoner was one of them, but I could not swear it—when I had got the notes I went to the Victoria Railway Station; I thrust the book to the bottom of my pocket, but I called at the Arcade to get a newspaper, and my impression is that I lost the book there—I do not think I dropped it.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. You say you have an impression that the prisoner is one of the men you saw there; you had not always that impression? A. I was impressed strongly that he was the man—when he was in the Court I looked at him sideways, and I was not so strongly impressed with his being the man—I thought he was not, from the way I saw him—but he was told to put his hat on, and then my impression strengthened that he was the man—my impression now is about the same as it was—I will not swear to him.

GEORGE GOLDSMITH . I am one of the tellers in the branch Bank of England, at Manchester. On 11th Aug. I paid the last witness a cheque, drawn by the Bank of Scotland, for 984l. 3s. 5d.; he had seven 100l. notes, fifty-six 5l. notes, and 4l. 3s. 5d. in cash—these three 5l. notes (produced) are three of the notes I gave him; Nos. 05655, 05657, and 05659; they are dated 15th Jan. 1857—I made the entry of the notes in this book at the time I paid them.

RICHARD ADYE BAILEY . I produce two 5l. notes from the Bank of England, No. 05657, paid on 14th Aug., by Martins, the bankers, and No. 05659, paid by Hankeys, the bankers.

GEORGE RUSSELL . I am a detective officer, of London. On 13th Aug., I was at the Bank of England on duty—I saw the prisoner there between 12 and 1 o'clock—I had this 5l. note in my hand, No. 05655, which I had received from the cashier—I said to the prisoner, "I am going to ask you some serious questions; I am a detective officer, and you are not compelled to answer any questions without you please"—I told him the note I had was part of a robbery committed at Manchester—he said, "Did I do it?" I said, "You can answer that question best yourself"—I asked him what his name was, he said, "John Richards," and that he lived at No. 2, Edith Street, Hackney Road—I asked him how long he had lived there—he said about a month—I asked him where he had lived before that—he said

at No. 22, Waterloo Road—I asked him how long he had lived there—he said seven days—I asked him where he had lived before that—he said at Portsmouth, but he could not remember where, and he had lived there about a month—I asked if he was married, and where his wife was—he said she was at Portsmouth, but he did not know where—I asked him how he became possessed of this note—he said he got it just outside—he said he was a general dealer, he meant by that a licensed hawker—he said, "I was coming down Cornhill yesterday, with some cloth, and I met a man whom I knew something of, and asked him to buy the cloth; it was eleven yards of black doeskin, and I sold it him for 3l. 10s.; I got the note of him;" that the man took the doeskin of him, and they went to a public in Bishopsgate Street, and were served by a woman whom he should know again, and he could show me the house—I asked him where he got the cloth from—he said he had it from a person named Lyons, at Whitechapel—I told him the account he gave was so unsatisfactory that it was my duty to take him into custody—I took him into custody, and another officer went with him to a public house in Bishopsgate Street, that he pointed out—he went into the house and pointed out a woman as the woman that served him the day before—I asked the woman in his presence if she remembered his being there the day before—she said she did not—the prisoner heard that—I asked her if she remembered his being in the house with a man and any cloth; she said she was quite sure no person came there with cloth yesterday at all—I took the prisoner to the station, and found on him 3l. 13s.—in answer to a question by the inspector, he said he had the note from a man named Riley—I told him that was not the name he mentioned to me at the Bank of England, he had mentioned a man named Barry—he said, "Oh, Barry and Riley, it is all one."

Cross-examined. Q. What time was it you had this conversation? A. Between 12 and 1 o'clock—I told him in the first instance that I was a detective officer—if he had answered my questions satisfactorily I should not have made him a prisoner—some of the clerks were present at the conversation at the Bank—I did not take a note of this conversation; I give it from memory—it is more than a month ago—another officer came in afterwards, and took the prisoner into custody—I know I have had three prisoners since—I did not put as many questions to them as I did to this prisoner—I have to put questions to a great many people—I recollect some of the conversations.

JAMES BRETT . I am a detective officer. I was at the Bank of England—I have been to No. 22, Old Street Road—it is an unoccupied house—I have also been to No. 24, Hackney Road.

JOSEPH ELDRED . I keep a coffee house at No. 223, Shoreditch. On 12th or 13th Aug. the prisoner came to my house for some refreshment—it came, to 9d. or 10d.—he offered me this 5l. note (looking at it)—I asked him to put his name on it, and he wrote this, "John Bland, 22, Old Street Road"—I said, "Are you a tradesman there?"—he said, "Yes, in a little way of business"—I put the note with others, and paid it in to Martin's bank.

Cross-examined. Q. You had never seen him before? A. I fancied I had—I still believe I have; I do not know where—he might have come into my house—I suppose he was in my house a quarter of an hour—I served him myself, and took the money, and gave him the change—I afterwards saw him in custody at the Mansion House—the constable traced the note back to me, and told me he had the man in custody—I went, and saw the prisoner in the dock alone—the officer told me he was apprehended in the Bank passing another note.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Have you any doubt that the prisoner is the man who paid you the note? A. No; I have never had any doubt.

ABRAHAM LYONS . I am a tailor, of No. 158, Shoreditch. I have known the prisoner on and off as a customer for twelve months—I am not a dealer in cloth—on 12th Aug. he came to my shop, in the middle of the day, and asked me if I would give him change for a 5l. note; as he was a stranger in that neighbourhood he found it difficult to get it—I gave him change—this is the note, No. 05659—I knew his name—I asked him his address—he said, "24, Hackney Road"—there was another man with him—I paid the note with other money into Davis's—the prisoner had been at my house several times.

GUILTY . on 2nd Count.

(He was further charged with having been before convicted.)

JOHN VALE . (City policeman, 341). I produce a certificate—(Read: "Central Criminal Court; Andrew Bland, Convicted Oct., 1856, of stealing four rings, 10l.; Confined Nine Months")—I was present—the prisoner is the man.

GUILTY.— Four Tears Penal Servitude.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-940
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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940. THOMAS CHARLES HENRY LANGLEY (35) , embezzling 26l. 17s., 5l. 9s. 3d., and 5l. 19s. 9d.; also, 35l. 5s. 9d., 40l. 18s. 6d., and 5l. 0s. 3d.; also, 20l. 18s. 6d., 18l. 12s., and 9l. 0s. 6d.; also, 10l. 5s. 7d., and 2l. 10s.; the moneys of Benjamin Wortley Home. and others, his masters: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Four Years Penal Servitude.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-941
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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941. CHARLES MICKLEBURG (33) , Forging and tittering an order for 41l. 3s., with intent to defraud.

MR. SLEIGH. conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES BROOKS . I have one partner; we are auctioneers, in Piccadilly. On 29th July I conducted a sale of some bankrupt's property, at No. 180, Whitecross Street—the prisoner appeared there, and bid for some lots—the first lot he bought was some barley—I asked for his name in the usual way, and he handed up a printed card, which was destroyed—I have made search for it, but have not been able to find it—what was on it was, "Wilcox, meat salesman, Newgate Market"—I did not ask for any deposit—the prisoner bought various lots, amounting to 41l. 3s.—one lot was a phaeton, 10l. 10s., and some second hand harness—he also bought barley and oats—he came the next day for his account, and I handed it to him—he said would go and get the money—he went, and came back, and handed my clerk this cheque for 41l. 3s.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. "Would you have been satisfied with any card he had handed up? A. Yes, if I thought he was a respectable man—I never knew such a thing at a sale as for a person not to give his own name—no one sells besides myself—I had never seen the prisoner before that time—I did not see him again after he came with the cheque till I took him into custody—he gave me a false address—I found him on 4th Aug. at the bottom of Lea Bridge Road—there was not a person named May taken up for this to my knowledge—I wish I could catch him—the prisoner did not say that he got this cheque from May—I believe there in such a person—I have been searching for him.

ALFRED WOOD . I am clerk to the last witness. I saw the prisoner go through his account with Mr. Brooks—he afterwards came and brought me this cheque for 41l. 3s.—I gave it to my employer, and he paid it into the banker's—it was returned unpaid to my employer—there was nobody with the prisoner, to my knowledge.

Cross-examined. Q. Can you not tell whether there was another person

or not? A. No—the prisoner was with me but a very few minutes—he did not mention the name of May to me; he did at the Court.

WILLIAM HAYNES . I am cashier at the Unity Bank. This cheque was handed to me for payment, and was returned unpaid—no person of this name keeps an account there.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know what cheque book this was taken from? A. Yes, a cheque book which was given to Joseph May; he at one time cashed at our bank—he was recommended by another customer, and represented as a potato salesman—this cheque book was given to May—I should say this cheque is not May's writing.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Have you any other cheque here of May's? A. Yes, I have a cheque of May's—he kept an account with us from January to June this year; I cannot say to what amount.

CHARLES WILLIAM WILCOX . I am a meat salesman, in Newgate Market In the middle of July I was in Coppice Row, Clerkenwell; there was a drove of beasts passing, and the prisoner and another man made some observation about the beasts—the prisoner was a stranger to me, but they were talking about the beasts—I said they would not make much at Newgate Market—the prisoner said, "Are you a meat salesman?"—I said; "Yes"—he said, "I come to Newgate Market from Bury St. Edmud's; give me your card"—I gave him some of my cards, and I put down his name, which he gave me, on the back of this card, "Mickleburg"—this cheque for 41l. 3s. is not my signature—I never gave the prisoner authority to sign my name.

Cross-examined. Q. This is not your name, is it? A. No—the name on the card is, "F. Wilcox," for Francis Wilcox; I carry on business in my father's name—there is no other salesman of Newgate Market of this name.

WILLIAM CUABLES GIGG . I am a labourer. I was at the saw mills sale, in Whitecross Street, on 29th July—I saw the prisoner there, and heard him bid for a lot—the auctioneer asked his name, and he gave in a card with the name of Wilcox, and he gave the name of Wilcox when he bought other lots—I asked him for a job, and he told me to meet him the next morning; I did so, and the first thing I had to take was some harness and a light cart—I took it to Old Street, and the prisoner and another man took it from me there—he told us to be there the next morning—he gave me and another young man a shilling apiece; he said, we had not done much that day, but we should have plenty to do the next day—we went there the next day, but he did not make his appearance—he bought some barley and some linseed at the sale—he said he was a small farmer, and the barley would do for his fowls, and keep them a long while, and the linseed for his cows—I have seen the phaeton since—I can swear to it by two marks on it.

Cross-examined. Q. Did he constantly give the name of Wilcox? A. Yes; when he bought other lots, he called out the name of Wilcox.

MATTHEW SHOESMITH . (Police sergeant, N 37). I apprehended the prisoner in Lea Bridge Road, on 4th Aug.—I said to him, "Your name is Wilcox, is it not?"—he made no reply—I then said, "You are charged with obtaining goods to the amount of 41l. 3s. "—he made no reply—I told him it was from Mr. Brooks—I put him into a cab, and on the way he said, "What claim have you on me?" and he said, "If you will go with me, I will give you, or get you, part of the money"—I found on him 3l. 19s. 6. and a watch.

SAMUEL DEACON . I keep a timber yard, in Kingsland Road. On 4th Aug. the prisoner came to me, and offered a phaeton for sale—he came with a customer of mine—I paid him 4l. 10s. for the phaeton; he gave me this receipt for the money—I have since shown that phaeton.

Cross-examined. Q. This is, "Mr. Mickleburg, his mark"? A. Yes, he did not write on that occasion, he made his mark—I did not know him before, nor where to find him.

HENRY FRANCIS . (Police sergeant, N 36). I have known the prisoner twelve or fifteen months—he goes by the name of Mickleburg or Mackleburg, and at public houses he goes by the name of Long Charley.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you know where to go for him? A. Yes, and he knew me. (Cheque read: "30th July, 1857. Unity Bank. Pay Messrs. Brooks and Deane, 41l. 3s. C. F. Wilcox." Receipt read: "4th Aug., 1857. Mr. Deacon. Bought of Mr. Mickleburg, four wheeled phaeton, 4l. 10s. C. Mickleburg, x his mark.")

(The prisoner received a good character.)

GUILTY . of uttering.— Confined Twelve Months.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-942
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown

Related Material

942. THOMAS M'CARTHY (18), and MARY ANN JOHNSON (20) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of William Matthews, and stealing 1 coat and other articles, value 1l. 12s. his property.

MR. LILLEY. conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM MATTHEWS . I am a milkman, and live in Fore Street, Lime-house. On the night of 28th Aug. I went to bed about a quarter before 11 o'clock—I had made the house safe—about half past 2 o'clock I was disturbed by the rattling of the door, as if some one was trying to get in—I lay for a minute, and heard it again—I then went to the window, and asked who was there—I saw a young man stand back—I said, "Who is there?"—he said, "It is all right"—I said, "It is not all right, take yourself away"—he again said, "It is all right," and I thought he had got the door open—(that was not the prisoner)—I got my trowsers on, and came and found my street door open—the cellar flap had been forced open—I saw my timepiece, my boots, a pair of trowsers, and a table cloth lying loose at the door—I had left the trowsers at night in a drawer in the bed room, and the table cloth on the drawers in the room where I slept with my two boys—I went to look round the corner, and a constable came to me, and I spoke to him—I then missed from my house a suit of clothes and some money—I had before seen the prisoner in the neighbourhood more than once.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. You have not seen your clothes since? A. No—there was also a lot of new halfpence, and some was found on the prisoner—I lost from 4s. to 7s. in money.

GEORGE MARTIN . (Policeman, 441). At half past 2 o'clock that morning I saw Johnson against the cellar flap of the last witness's house—she walked towards me when she saw me coming, and I said to her, "Halloo! what do you do here?"—she said, "I am servant at the Cape of Good Hope public house, and I am locked out"—at that moment I heard a noise at the side of Mr. Matthews's house—it is a wooden house—I heard Mr. Matthews speak to some one outside, and the person who was outside said, "It is all right"—Mr. Matthews said, "It is not all right," and the prisoner immediately came out of Mr. Matthews's door, and he and the man who was outside, who is not in custody; both went away together—I went into Mr. Matthews's house, and saw the articles in the passage—Mr. Matthews shut the door—I said, "Don't shut the door"—I went and opened it, and

I saw that Johnson had gone in the direction that the two men had gone—I went in a different direction, and I saw them again, about 300 yards off, at the back of the prosecutor's house—there were the two prisoners, and the man who ran away—when I got seven or eight yards from them I heard M'Carthy say, "I shall wish you good night," and he went down a court, went into a house, and I heard him fasten the door—I spoke to Johnson, and said, "Do you know that person who was with you?"—she said, "Yes, it is my brother"—I said, "How long have you been with him!"—she said, "Three hours"—I said, "Are you sure?"—she said, "Yes"—I said, "Have you left him for any time during that time?"—she said, "No"—I said, "You are servant at the Cape of Good Hope, are you not?"—she said, "Yes"—I said, "You won't go back there to-night, I shall take you into custody on suspicion of committing a robbery in Fore Street"—I took her, and sent her by another officer to the station—I got assistance, and went back to the house where I saw M'Carthy go in—I found the door fastened, but the door of the next house was open—I went in there, got over the wall, and got into the house where M'Carthy was—he was in the back room; he had his shoes off—I told him I wanted him for committing a robbery in Fore Street—he said, "I have been here since 1l. or half past 11 o'clock"—I left him in charge of another constable, and searched the house—I found in front of the prosecutor's house part of a box of lucifer matches—I did not search Johnson—I took hold of her pocket, and she took this money out, and said, "That is ail that I have"—the greater portion of these are old—there are five new coppers amongst them, very bright.

Cross-examined. Q. How much copper was there? A. Sixpence half-penny—I did not attempt to stop M'Carthy, nor to follow him when he came out—I do not know that I cross-examined Johnson; I asked her who she was, and the time she had been with this man—I had seen her alone just before—I put the question whether she had left the man during the three hours—I did not follow the two men coming from the house—I was waiting by the side of the house—knowing M'Carthy, I expected to see him and the other man return to Mr. Matthews's shop again—they did not return—I was looking for them when I found them 200 or 300 yards away—I do not know the other man, he escaped—Johnson gave up the money—I handed her to another officer, and went back to the house where M'Carthy was in about ten minutes afterwards—the prosecutor's is a corner house—I think I was not four yards from the prisoner when he came out from the door way—the place where I first saw Johnson was not on the side of the house where the door is, but where the cellar flap is—that street is the resort of sailors and others.

MR. LILLEY. Q. Are you sure as to the person of M'Carthy? A. Yes—I knew him before—I went round to meet the prisoner, seeing which way they turned.

WILLIAM HUCKSTEP . (Policeman, K 293). I was on duty—I went to the house, and took M'Carthy from, under the bed—a woman who was in the room said that he had run in a quarter of an hour before, and he had no business there, but he had asked her to allow him to stop there till the morning—she was in bed with her husband, and M'Carthy was under the bed with his shoes off—I was on duty at a quarter past 1 o'clock that morning, and I saw the two prisoners and two young men with them near the prosecutor's house—I turned my bull's eye on, and they walked away, and at a quarter before two o'clock I saw the two prisoners near the prosecutor's house—I know M'Carthy, I do not know Johnson.

Cross-examined. Q. Is there a public house called the Cape of Good Hope? A. Yes, it is in the Commercial Road, I should say half a mile from there.

COURT. to WILLIAM MATTHEW. Q. What copper had you in your till? A. Five shillings' worth of old coppers, and 1s. or 2s. worth of new coppers, and 2s. or 3s. in silver.


M'CARTHY received a good character.

GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-943
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

943. JAMES NUDD (21) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of James Darcey, with intent to steal.

JAMES DARCEY . I am a stonemason, and live in Bethnal Green. On 24th Aug., when I went to bed, my window was not quite down; the shutters were closed, but not bolted, because it had been painted—I could not say whether there was room for anybody to get in—I was disturbed about half past 4 o'clock in the morning—I heard a noise in the front room; I got up, and saw a man going out and pulling the door to—I ran out, and saw the prisoner forty or fifty yards off—I hallooed, and he came back, and said he had taken nothing from me—I laid hold of him—he tried to get away, and said he had not taken anything, that he saw the door open, and went in for a necessary purpose—he asked me to let him go to his work, and he would give me what he had got, as he did not want to get into trouble—he then said he was hungry, and he had done it through hunger—I held him till a policeman came, and gave him in charge—I examined my house, but missed nothing—I expect he got in at the window, which might have been left wide enough for him to get in—I had left the door shut and hasped the previous night, and in the morning it was open—I gave an alarm, and he opened the door, and got out.

Prisoner's Defence. I saw the door open, and went in to go to the back yard; I went on some yards, and heard some one call after me; I turned, and said, "Do you mean me? what do you mean by calling 'Stop thief!' after me?" he then collared me; I used to work two doors from his house; he came and looked at me many times.


14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-944
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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944. WILLIAM WEAVER (20) , Robbery, with another, on Benjamin Thornley Blakesley, and stealing from his person 1 watch and 1 guard, value 3l. 10s.; his property.

MR. T. SALTER. conducted the Prosecution.

BENJAMIN THORNLEY BLAKESLEY . I am sixteen years of age. On the evening of 18th Aug. I was near St. Clement's Church, in the Strand—the prisoner accosted me; he said it had been a nice day—I replied, "Yes, but it is very close"—he then said, "Have you ever seen this down here?"—I said, "What?—he said, "If you will come down, I will show you"—he went down Milford Lane, and I went with him—alter I had got to the bottom, there was a turn round, and I said to the prisoner, "I shall not go any further"—that was in Water Street—he said, "Here you are at a street in the Strand"—before I got into Water Street, a tipsy man turned before us, and when I got into Water Street, he ran against me, and knocked me down, and the prisoner and the other man held me down by the throat while they took my watch—I am quite certain the prisoner assisted the other man in holding me down; while they were doing it, the prisoner went to the corner to see if any one was coming, and he said, "Have you got it, have you got it? make haste!"—the moment they got it, the man threw me with great force against a step, to stun me, but I did not fall—I followed him—I was hurt in the throat and the face—I do not

know which of the men it was that did it; the other man was near when one did it—they both went in one direction, and then separated—I did not overtake either of them—I cried out while I was running after them—Mr. Hale and Mr. Collins stopped the prisoner, and I came up.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. What time was this? A. About 9 o'clock in the evening, or a little after—I live with my father and mother in Old Change—I had been to Charing Cross, and was on my way back, but I stopped at the corner of Milford Lane, waiting for a friend, whom I had seen that evening; he came to oar house—I went down Milford Lane because the prisoner said he would show me something—it was not more than three or four minutes when this drunken man came—he appeared very drunk—he reeled up against the prisoner, not against we—I said to the prisoner, "Why did you not knock him down as he came and struck you?—the prisoner said, "So I will"—they both went to the ground after they had got the watch—there was not another man came up—there was not a fourth person at all—I had seen my watch repeatedly the same evening; the drunken man was laying hold of me at the time I lost it, and the prisoner too—both the men snatched my watch; they both had hold of the chain at the same time, and both were concerned in taking it.

MR. SALTER. Q. Did you lose your cap in the struggle? A. Yes, but that has been found since—my watch was fastened by a guard chain, which was lost at the same time.

MART HAREFIELD . I live at No. 9, Water Street, Strand; my husband is a carman. On 18th Aug., about half past 9 o'clock at night, I was in a room which overlooks Water Street—I heard a scuffle, opened the window, looked out, and saw a young man, who I believe was the prosecutor; a man had got him by the throat, and was in the act of throwing him on a step—I was not able to see that man sufficiently to know him—I could only see his back—I heard the young man say, "I will give it you, if you will let me go"—the watch was thrown, and it flew open—I went down stairs afterwards, and picked up a cap und a watch glass, which I delivered to the inspector.

Cross-examined. Q. What kind of man was it who threw the prosecutor on the step? A. He was something similar to the prisoner; he was dressed in a black coat—I never saw a third person.

MAHALA MEDLOW . I live at No. 13, Milford Lane. I was standing outside my door about 9 o'clock that night—I saw the prisoner—I am quite sure he is the man—he was running along, followed by the youth—I attempted to stop the prisoner, and I succeeded for a moment—he raised his hand to strike me, and I let go.

EDWARD COLLINS . I am piermaster at Essex Street pier. On that night, about half past 9 o'clock, I was in a court leading to the pier—I saw the prisoner just by the gate of Mr. Lipson's stable—I then saw the prosecutor; he said, "For God's sake, seize that man; he and another bare held me down, and nearly murdered me, and stolen my watch"—he was bleeding from the nose and the mouth—I took the prisoner, and said to him, "You are in safe hands now; you won't rob another."

SAMUEL HALES . I am a porter, living in Milford Lane. On this night I was at a stable, near the pier steps—I saw the prisoner running—I heard a faint cry, and the prosecutor came up, and begged me to lay hold of the prisoner.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you lay hold of him? A. Yes, and kept with him—he said that the man who robbed the gentleman had just

gone on up the steps—I did not see any man running up the steps—he said, "If you run up, you will catch him."

JAMES BAYLISS . (Policeman, F 85). The prisoner was given into my custody about half past 9 o'clock on 18th Aug.—I had this cap and watch glass about 12 o'clock the same night—when I got near the station, the prisoner made use of a bad word, and said, "Let me go."

Cross-examined. Q. Did he not tell you that it was some other man who robbed this gentleman? A. Yes; he said, at the station, that a man came up, and nearly knocked him down, and robbed the young gentleman.

GUILTY . †— Five Years Penal Servitude.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-945
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

945. MARGARET M'KENSIE (22) , Stealing 1 purse, value 1s. 6d., and 15s. 3d.; the property of Catharine Haskell, from her person.

MR. CAARTEN. conducted the Prosecution.

CATHARINE HASKELL . I am barmaid at the Pullen's Head, in Darkhouse Lane. On the evening of 24th Aug., about half past 9 o'clock, I was landing from a Gravesend steam boat at London Bridge Wharf—I felt some one's hand in my pocket; I turned round, and caught the prisoner—I saw my purse drop from her hand—this is it—it had 15s. 3d. in it; it was picked up by a person who stood by, and handed to me—I kept the prisoner till the officer came—she fell down on her knees, and begged for mercy for the sake of her children.

SAMUEL HAMBROOK . (Policeman). At a quarter past 9 o'clock that evening I saw the last witness on the wharf holding the prisoner, who, she said, had robbed her of her purse—the prisoner fell on her knees, and begged for mercy for the sake of her children.

The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read: "I am guilty; I can say no more."

GUILTY .— Confined Four Months.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-946
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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946. THOMAS WATSON (17) , Robbery, with two others, on Susannah Caroline Abbey, and stealing from her person 3 gowns, and other articles, value 17s.; the goods of Amelia Mary Martha Faux.

SUSANNAH CABOLINE ABBEY . I am going on for eleven years of age. On 7th Sept. I was going home with a bundle, which had three dresses and other articles in it—I was at the corner of Judd Street, and this man and two others came up to me—one put a handkerchief to my mouth, and the prisoner took my bundle—I am sure he is the person—he ran, and I ran after him—I lost sight of him—about half an hour afterwards I saw him at the station, with other persons—I looked about, and fixed on the prisoner—I am sure he is the person.

GEORGE JEVAN . (Policeman, D 295). I was not on duty, but was looking out of a window—I heard a cry of "Stop thief!" and saw this little girl running—I went to a back cottage, and found the prisoner and another man—the prisoner said it was not him that did the robbery, it was two other men—Mr. Dunn gave me this property.

WILLIAM DUNN . I live at No. 3, Stafford Street, Lisson Grove. On 7th Sept. my wife gave me some information, and I went to a house in George Street, and found this bundle, with three dresses and other things in it, on the stairs—I went to a room up stairs, and found the prisoner behind the door—I said to him, "You vagabond, you ought to be well horsewhipped"—he said it was not him, and he made a blow at me—I held my hand up, and the officer came, and took him.

Prisoner. I was on the bed. Witness. No, you were behind the door—you made a strike at me, and I took your collar.

MARY ANN KITTLE ., I live at No. 32, Stafford Street On 7th Sept, I saw this man with a bundle—it was not this bundle, but it was the same things, I saw the dresses in it—he was running round the corner of the street—I knew him by sight, I had seen him several times previously—I then saw the little girl running down—I asked her what was the matter, and she told me.

AMELIA MARY MARTHA FAUX . These dresses and other articles I had in my possession on 7th Sept—I gave them to this child to carry.

Prisoners Defence. Two persons ran into my room, I asked them what for, and they said, "The police is after us;" they got out at the window; I did not see the bundle; I told the witness I was innocent; I did not attempt to strike him.

GUILTY.—. Confined Nine Months.

THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, September 16th, 1857.


Before Michael Prendergast, Esq., Q. C., and the Seventh Jury.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-947
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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947. HENRY HAYNES (21), and JOHN KELLY (20) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of Joseph Avant with intent to steal: to which they

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months each.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-948
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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948. EMMA TOON (18) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of Joseph Brooks, and stealing 2 jackets, 1 pair of trowsers, 1 gown, and 1 cape, value 13s.; his goods: to which she

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-949
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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949. MARGARET COLE (30) , Stealing 1 pocket book, and 40l. in money; the property of James William Allen, her master: to which she

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined One Year.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-950
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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950. JAMES MOORE (29) , Unlawfully assaulting Helen Sullivan, and inflicting upon her grievous bodily harm: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months ,

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-951
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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951. WILLIAM BARRON (58) , Embezzling the sums of 3s., 2s. 2., and 6s.; the moneys of Benjamin Ingram, his master.

MR. COOPER. conducted the Prosecution.

LEWIS LOWTHER TAPLIN . I am a frame maker, of No. 6, Beech Street, Barbican. I have been in the habit of purchasing wood of the prisoner at Mr. Ingram's yard, Barbican—I purchased some on 4th July, and paid the prisoner 3s.—I did not take a receipt; it is not customary—on 16th July I bought wood at Mr. Ingram's again, and paid the prisoner 2s. 2d., within a few halfpence; and some more on the 25th, and paid him 6s.,—he had the care of the yard.

GEORGE HENRY GALLOWAY . I am clerk to Benjamin Ingram, of No. 38, Beech Street, timber merchant The prisoner has been his foreman two years—it was his duty to effect Bales in the yard, to receive money, and bring it to the counting house to me, or Mr. Ingram—if we were not there,

it was his duty to put it into the till, and make an entry on a slate at the same time of what he had sold, that I might transfer it to a book—I have my books here—here is no entry of 3s. on 4th July, 2s. 6d. on 16th July, or 6s. on 25th July, received from Mr. Taplin.

COURT. Q. How do you know that he did not put it into the till? A. Because it would have been on the slate—I balance the till every night, and I am sure it was not wrong on those three nights—my attention was not directed to it till 21st Aug.—I have an account here of the contents of the till on those days—the money balanced with the entries on the slate, and there were no entries on the slate of these amounts—either I or Mr. Ingrain took the entries from the slate on those days—it is my business to balance of an evening, but sometimes Mr. Ingram does it if I am away—I did not mention these three sums to the prisoner, nor was his attention directed to them before he was in custody—we did not find it out at first.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. Has he been two years in Mr. Ingram's employment? A. Yes—he came with a very high character—some hundreds of pounds have passed through his hands to take to the bank, and he received a good deal in the deal yard, and accounted for it—he can write—he sometimes makes mistakes—he has often handed money to Mr. Ingram—I do not recollect his forgetting to put down a sum of money, but he may have—if I or Mr. Ingram find that he has sold timber, and entered it on the slate, we should not put it down till the evening, or the next day—if we take money out of the till, Mr. Ingram tells me to put it down—I will not say that it never happened, in the hurry of business, that Mr. Ingram or myself forgot to mention the receipt of a couple of shillings—Taplin was a regular customer.

JURY. Q. How do you check the money in the till every night? A., By the entries on the slate—the money on these identical nights agreed with the entries on the slate—a great many customers were called on, and Taplin told us that he had paid the money.

LEWIS LOWTHER TAPLIN . re-examined. I always put down in my book what I bought, and on the same day—I did not get any acknowledgment—I only used a small quantity, and all I had I had there—the inspector asked me if I had bought any.

GEORGE HENRY GALLOWAY . re-examined. A great many of the names of ready money customers are put down, with the amounts—we never book two customers together—here are a great many entries without names—the third and fourth are balanced together.

Cross-examined. Q. Was it not the prisoner's practice to put the money into a bowl on the desk when you were away? A. To put it into the till, and when I came in I saw by the slate what he had received—if he paid me without putting it on the slate, he waited while I put it down.

BENJAMIN INGRAM . I am a timber merchant, of No. 38, Beech Street, Barbican. The prisoner has not accounted to me for 3s., 2s. 2d., and 6s., received on 4th, 16th, and 25th July.

Cross-examined. Q. Did he sometimes pay you money? A. Very seldom indeed—he used to take it and put it on a slate—he may have brought me money sometimes when I have been engaged—all I can say is that I do not find entries corresponding with these sums in the books—it is not possible that he could give me 2s. and I forget it—I was very particular in putting money down—he has given me money when I have been engaged on other business—the entries in this book are generally made by Mr. Galloway—I make the entries on a slate, and they are entered in the book at the end of

the day—the prisoner has been in my employ about two years—he has taken a good deal of money in that time—he came to me with a good character.

(The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows; "I can see a man in Court who was the very first instigation of my robbing my master; when I first went to Mr. Ingram's I bore an irreproachable character, and he had one with me; there stands the man (Munday); he used to come at 6 or half past 6 o'clock of a morning, and take the stuff out at the back gate, and give me what I thought fit")

(THE COURT. considered that it was for the Jury to say whether this statement had anything to do with the case, it not being a confession of this charge.)

COURT. to GEORGE HENRY GALLOWAY. Q. If the prisoner brought half a crown to you, was an entry put on the slate? A. Yes, and the money put into the till, not into my pocket—the 3rd and 4th July are balanced together, but the 3rd was balanced for all that; if it had not been right there would have been a mark made—I put them together, because I had a difficulty to get it in—I should say that this 1s. 9d. for pine was on the 4th—I reckoned up the gross amount on the 3rd, but I have omitted to put it down—I have cast up the slate at night to see that it balances with the till.

COURT. to BENJAMIN INGRAM. Q. Do you ever take money without putting it down on the slate, or his putting it down? A. I think not; it was an invariable rule.


14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-952
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

952. WILLIAM BARRON was again indicted for embezzling 17s. 6d.; the moneys of Benjamin Ingram, his master.

MR. COOPER. conducted the Prosecution.

JOSEPH BOTTOMLEY . I am a carpenter, residing at No. 2, Jacob's Well Passage, Barbican. I have occasionally purchased timber of Mr. Ingram—I purchased three 14 feet deals with two cuts on each, and two 10 feet deals with two cuts on each, of the prisoner, on two separate days—I cannot give the dates, but he came to my house on Saturday 15th Aug., I asked him what I had to give him, he said 17s. 6d. and I paid him—I have it booked in superficial measurement—that is not the value of them; when I came to reckon, I found it a trifle under.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. Had you any account with Mr. Ingram? A. No; I went in the ordinary course of business to the yard, at 7 or 8 o'clock in the morning—if I bought anything between then and the following Tuesday, I paid him—I had some stuff on the Monday, for which I paid Mr. Ingram—I kept an account from Saturday to Saturday—this 2s. 6d., and 4s. 6d., which is entered, I paid to Mr. Galloway—Mr. Ingram was not aware that I paid on Saturdays; there was nothing clandestine in my dealings, but I am not sure that Mr. Ingram, to whom I owed a little account, would have given me credit; I thought he would have to a customer, or else I should not have done it; but the prisoner did it on his own responsibility—the prisoner generally called at my place for the money on Saturday, for two or three months.

GEORGE HENRY GALLOWAY . I have not received 17s. 6d. from the prisoner, on 15th Aug., from Bottomley, nor do I find any entry to him of deal to the amount of 17s. 6d. that week—I called on Bottomley on 21st Aug., after the prisoner was in custody.

Cross-examined. Q. There is an entry here, "Aug. 18th, Bottomley, 10s.? A. That was entered by the prisoner on the 18th, and put in the till; it is for spruce.

BENJAMIN INGRAM . The prisoner did not account to me for 17s. 6d., received from Bottomley on 15th Aug., he did not account to me for dealt sold that week.

Cross-examined. Q. Had the prisoner authority to sell on credit? A. Not without my leave; if he did it was his duty to give the money to me—it was not his duty to collect money due to me from my customers—I would not have had him refuse it if anybody offered it to him, but that has nothing to do with the books—I give credit to some persons; it was not his duty to collect accounts unless specially sent; he was not hired to be in the counting house to receive money—if a customer did not pay, it would be the prisoner's duty to get the money, and bring it to me as soon as he could—he knew that he had no right to sell on credit—he was taken up on 21st Aug. on another charge; Bottomley owed me a small account, and that was the reason he would not ask me for credit, but I had not expressly forbidden the prisoner to give him credit.

The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was again read.

(MR. DOYLE. contended that the money was not paid to the prisoner on account of his master, as he went clandestinely and obtained it, and therefore did not obtain it as Mr. Ingram's servant, and therefore ought to be acquitted.

THE COURT. decided that, as the prisoner was entrusted to receive money for his master, it was his duty to give him all money he received for him.)

GUILTY .— Confined One Year.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-953
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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953. JOHN COOPER (25) , Stealing 7 tame ducks, price 14s.; the property of James Phillips.

MICHAEL RAMSDALE . I am one of the constables of Leadenhall Market. I was in the market on 10th Sept., between eight and nine o'clock, and saw the prisoner picking the feathers off the breasts of seven ducks; he said that they were his own, and that he had killed them at Homerton at 5 o'clock that morning—they were warm, and I thought they were not fairly killed, as one had its leg broken, and another was bruised over the breast—going to the station, he said, "It is no use telling a lie, master, I bought them of a carman"—he gave his address at Tottenham Hatch.

JAMES PHILLIPS . I am a nurseryman. The seven ducks are mine, they were safe at half past 7 o'clock in the evening, in my garden, at South Hackney, and the next morning I found that some one had entered the shed and eleven were gone, and six running loose in the garden; there had been seventeen—I have only found the seven; I missed them at half past 7 o'clock in the morning, and at 3 or 4 in the afternoon they were at Leaden-hall Market.

Prisoner. Q. What do you swear to them by? A. By their plumage; there were feathers enough left on them—one was an old one, the mother; I had had her about a year and four months, I am certain of them all.

Prisoner's Defence. Do you think it feasible that he can swear to them, when there are thousands alike at this season; I bought them of a countryman; I get my living in the street by selling them.

GUILTY .**— Confined Six Months.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-954
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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954. MARTIN BRUNIGES (37) , Stealing, on 22nd Aug., 2lbs. weight of nails, value 1s.; the goods of Joseph Evans and another, his masters.

MR. THOMPSON. conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES NUTT . I am a warehouseman, of No. 26, London Wall. I occupy one room on the first floor and one on the third floor—the ground

floor is used as stables—Mr. Evans occupies one room on the first floor—on the evening of 22nd Aug. the prisoner came to me about 7 o'clock, and asked to be allowed to get some nails out of the shop, to put a shoe on a horse, and Mr. Evans's daughter asked me to take the key and go down, and let him have the nails—he is in Mr. Evans's employment—I went down, opened the shop, and went in with him—it is inside the yard, facing the dwelling house—he walked up first between the two forges, and took a piece of canvas; he then went to the bags of nails, took a handful from one bag and two from another, and then he took a handful from the bag from which he took it first—he wrapped the canvas round them, and placed them in his hat; he then took a few more out of a box, and put them into his pocket—he went out of the shop, and told me to tell Mr. Evans that he was going to put a shoe on for Mr. Biscow—I told Mr. Evans's daughter what I had seen—I should think he took two or three pounds; it was as many as he could take up with his fingers without folding his hands—they were horseshoe nails.

Cross-examined by MR. HOBBY. Q. Gould he see you as well as you could see him? A. His back was to me—he knew that I was there—he did not appear quite sober from the manner he spoke—I think he put his hat on with the nails in it—I thought it was a very odd thing, but being merely a lodger, I felt a delicacy in interfering, but I told the daughter directly I got up stairs.

JOSEPH EVANS . I am a farrier, in partnership with Mr. Harris, at No. 26, London Wall The prisoner had to go to Mr. Biscow's on this evening, to take off a horseshoe and put it on again—I received information when I came home, about half past 8 or 9 o'clock, but did not examine the bags of nails that evening—the nails he would require for shoeing the horse would be sixes or sevens; that is not the description in the box standing in the shop—that contained nails of all sorts for common use—I understand that he shoed Mr. Biscow's horse the next morning—I have not been paid for it, because he runs a bill—the nails in the bag were nines and tens—I understood he was very much the worse for liquor, but he is a good servant, and does not get drunk at his work—I do not think he knew what he was about.


14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-955
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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955. JOHN PASS (34) , Unlawfully obtaining 13l.; the moneys of Isaac Simmons, by false pretences.

MR. W. J. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.

ISAAC SIMMONS . I am a general dealer, of No. 29, Field Lane, Holborn. On Monday, 24th Aug., the prisoner came to my shop about 5 o'clock, and said that he had some chains which he could sell me—I said I did not feel inclined to buy any—he talked to me about them several times—I looked at them, tested them, and found that the gold was so common that was in them, that I should not like to buy them on my own judgment—he said that I might take one to a pawnbroker—I said no, but if he liked I would take one where I thought proper, and I took part of one to a refiner's, Mr. Jones—they were on a ring—I left him in the room with my wife, and the chains on the table, while I went to the refiner's—the chains were wrapped up in a piece or whity brown paper, tied with red tape—I returned, and told him that the gold was not worth more than 15s. per ounce, and I should not like to give above 12l. for the thirteen chains—he said that he would not take it, and put them into his outside coat pocket behind, wrapped up—I said, "Never mind, I will give you 13l. for them"—he

said, "You shall have them"—I gave him the 13l., and said, "Now, I want a receipt"—he took the parcel out of his pocket, and gave it to me—I did not weigh it in my hand, but it looked exactly the same—he said, "I will get a receipt round the corner"—he went round the corner, and never came back—I opened the parcel, and found that the chains were quite different, and not worth above 7d. a pound to melt them—I had a piece of one of them assayed by the same gentleman—I went after the prisoner, but could not find him.

JURY. Q. In what language was he carrying on the negotiation? A. In English—he spoke it very well—he can understand all I am saying now—I gave him the little bit that I had cut off, and he wrapped it up in the parcel with the chains—I should not have parted with my thirteen sovereigns unless I had believed that the chains were what I had purchased, and were worth 15s. per ounce—the parcel I received had not the piece in it which had been cut of—he was in my place two hours, and I dare say I was talking to him three quarters of an hour—I had not the least difficulty in making him understand—I spoke no other language to him than English—(The prisoner stated that he did not understand English, and the evidence was interpreted to him).

Prisoner. It is true that I took the chains there, but I did not change them.

RACHEL SIMMONS . I am the prosecutor's wife. I was present on 24th Aug., when the prisoner came—he had a lot of chains wrapped up in whity brown paper—I know that he can read English because he read some bills which were stuck up opposite the house—my husband told him that he would not buy the chains on his own judgment, but wished to take them to a pawnbroker's, and the prisoner lent him one for the purpose—he said that my husband was a long time gone, and said, "I do not value 2l. or 3l., I shall not stop any longer"—I said, "Do not go without the chain"—he looked out at the window, and said, "Here he comes, with his long pipe in his mouth"—my husband came in, and said the chains were common, he did not like to buy them at all without having them assayed, and might he cut a piece off—the prisoner consented, and he did so—my husband went away for an hour while the prisoner waited—he came back, and said, "They are very common, I cannot buy them"—the prisoner said, "What will you give?"—he tied the parcel up with a bit of red tape, and put it into his pocket—my husband said he would give 12l.—the prisoner said, "No," and then my husband said he would give 13l.—the prisoner said, "Yes"—my husband put the 13l. into his hand, and the prisoner took a parcel from the same pocket, and passed it to my husband—it was done up just in the same way—he then went away to get a receipt, and we detected that it was the wrong parcel, and the piece of chain that had been cut off was not in it—on 31st Aug. I met the prisoner in Leather Lane, at 10 o'clock in the morning—I followed him—he crossed over to the other side of the way, and stopped; I then stopped—he said, "Are you following me?"—I said, "Yes, I am looking for a constable, to give you in custody"—he turned round, came back, and said, "Me go to police station with you"—I said, "Yes"—he got a little further, and said, "No, me come down this way"—he got very restless, and tried to get away—I said, "If you run, I shall call, "Stop thief!"—he said, "Me come down to your house"—I said, "Well"—I then saw a policeman, and asked him to follow me home—we walked in, and I said to the prisoner, "You have robbed me of 13l., what are you going to give me back?"—he said, "Me

got no money?"—I said, "That is a pretty thing, I shall give you in custody"—he said, "Me give you 30s".—I said, "I shall not take it," and gave him into custody, with the chains—he did not show me any money—I did not know him before—he said that he took the chains in exchange, and that he was a dealer.

Prisoner. It is not true; I was following Mrs. Simmons myself.

GEORGE PARKER . I live at No. 27, Stanmore Street, and am assistant to Mr. Jones, a refiner. On 27th Aug. Mr. Simmons brought me a portion of a chain—I refined it, separated the base metal from it, and left the gold and silver—it was worth 15s. an ounce, and was a composition of gold, silver, and brass—I gave it back to him, and on the following morning he brought me another chain, of the same pattern, but rather larger—it was a composition of base metal, with neither gold nor silver in it.

CHARLES THOMAS PRICE . (City policeman, 226). These chains (produced) were delivered to me by Mrs. Simmons—this other lot of thirteen chains I found on the prisoner on 31st Aug., when I took him into custody—they were wrapped up in blue paper, and were on thirteen rings—he had this guard chain (produced) round his neck, with some hair to it—he gave me his address, but I did not find him there—he spoke English—I understood him very well—I found this card on him—it is that of Mr. Lee, of Birmingham, a manufacturer of chains.

ISAAC SIMMONS . re-examined. The chains I bargained for, were something of a similar pattern to this one which he wore round his neck—(The prisoner selected a chain from the thirteen found on him, stated that it was gold, and requested that the refiner might examine it.)

Prisoner. That man and the Jew have made a plot against me.

GEORGE PARKER . re-examined. I have formed no scheme or plot with Mr. Simmons at all—I know nothing of him, except as a servant to Mr. Jones—I received no fee for refining the chain, because he comes and purchases articles of jewellery and watches some times—I have never seen the prisoner before—this chain is very like the portion which was brought to me to test, and, as far as it appears to me, I think it is gold, and worth about 15s. an ounce—this single chain with the hair to it, is a different make—there is a decided difference in the colour of the chain he has selected and the others, and it is heavier.

Prisoner's Defence. Mr. Simmons invited me to come into his house to business, and asked me if I had any gold, silver, or watches for sale; I had nothing for sale at that time, but I afterwards met him in Holborn, and told him that I would bring him something; I took him some plated chains, and told him that I had some gold ones, which were made at Birmingham; I went to Birmingham, and bought these chains there; I took them to him; he sent his wife and the little ones out of doors, locked the door, and asked me if I had anybody with me; I said, "No, I am quite alone;" he said, "Now, what takes place here is between four eyes only, between you and me;" he took some aquafortis and put on one of the chains; I told him that one of them was gold, and I took that chain off, and put it into his hand; he immediately cut off a piece; he then desired his wife to give me some tea or coffee, left me with her and his daughter, and went away; he afterwards came back, and said, "All right; how much do you want for the whole together?" he said that if he got them he must put them into a crucible, and that he must have them very cheap; the woman then held up her fingers twelve times; I said, "No, I cannot take 12l., you must give me 1l. more, and I must keep one chain for myself," and I kept the one

which was cut; they asked me whether I had more, and I said, "Yes;" they asked where, and I said, "There," pointing to the ground, and engaged to bring some more; the chains which I showed to Simmons are the same; there is no alteration in them; I had to pay 1l. for the piece which was put into the chain again; Simmons buys stolen things; when I was going out, he said, "Don't go out yet, because there are some people spying;" the gold chain cost 5l., without the manufacture; he did it on purpose to take me in; I bought the other chains with the 13l.

GUILTY . — Confined Six Months.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-956
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

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956. THOMAS CONNOR was indicted for libel.

(MR. LEWIS., for the Prosecution, stated that the prisoner had apologised in the fullest manner, and that he should, therefore, offer no evidence against him.)


14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-957
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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957. JOHN REEVES (33) , Embezzling and stealing, on 12th Aug., 14l. 17s. 6l. the moneys of Rafaello Louis Giandonati and others, his masters.

MR. COOPER. conducted the Prosecution.

RAFAELLO LOUIS GIANDONATI . I am an India rubber and patent leather manufacturer, at No. 44, St. Paul's Churchyard. I have two partners—the prisoner was in our employ in 1856—it was his duty to bring goods from West Ham, and deliver them to my customers—on 12th Aug., 1856, I sold some leather cloth and other articles to a customer, amounting to 15l. 5s. 1d., less 2 1/2 discount, and directed the prisoner to deliver them to Mr. Yanstrutten, in St. Mark's Street—they were not to be left without the money—the prisoner never came back, and I never received the money or goods—I told him and two other porters on the same day that if they took the goods, they were not to leave them without the money.

WILLIAM THOMAS COLE . I am a porter to the last witness. On 12th Aug. I saw the goods that were to be sent to Mr. Yanstrutten put into the prisoner's cart—he went away with them, and I never saw him afterwards.

JACOB MOSES BOSMAN . I am a cattle salesman, of St. Mark's Street, Goodman's Fields. My cousin, Mr. Yanstrutten, who lives at the Hague, was lodging with me last Aug., and on the 12th I received a quantity of goods for him, which he had purchased of the prosecutors—the man who brought them produced this invoice, but I cannot recollect his face—I paid him the money, a 5l. or 10l. note, and some gold and silver, amounting altogether to 14l. 17s. 6d.—he signed this receipt—(Signed, Robert Webbe).

HENRY BRAITHWAITE . I am a warehouseman, of No. 12, Britannia Row, Islington. I have lent the prisoner money in the name of William Webbe—this receipt is in his writing.

Prisoner. This witness said that he was going to get more money by coming up against me than what I owed him. Witness. Never.

Prisoner's Defence. I left that invoice, but I never received the money.

ALFRED GREEN . I know the prisoner—his name is'Robert William Webbe.

RAFAELLO LOUIS GIANDONATI . re-examined. He came to me in the name of Webbe.

GUILTY .*— Confined One Year.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-958
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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958. SARAH LITTLE (28) , Stealing one watch, value 5l.; the goods of George Frederick Arney, from his person.

GEORGE FREDERICK ARNEY . I am a tea dealer. On 14th Sept, at midnight, I was in Fenchurch Street, in the prisoner's company—I was not sober, and do not know how I got into her company—I felt a jerk at my

pocket in London Street, and missed my watch—I was coming from Mark Lane, where I had spent the evening, towards London Bridge, but cannot tell how I got into London Street—I saw her running away; I called, "Stop thief!" and saw her stopped—she is the same woman that was with me.

Prisoner. I met you, and we went into the public house by the Monument, and had some rum. Witness. I have no recollection of it—I had been to a friend's house in Mark Lane, with a tasting order—I think it very improbable that I was near London Bridge—I have no recollection of going to another public house, in Thomas Street, and having a quartern of rum, or at Tower Hill, and having two pints—I did not leave my watch with you for 5s., promising to meet you next night near the Monument—I had sufficient money to pay 4s. 6d. for a cab, and then had a shilling or two left—I fancy I left Mark Lane about 11 o'clock.

WILLIAM HEWITT TURNER . I was going up Fenchurch Street, about 12 o'clock, with two friends, and as I passed along London Street I saw the prisoner on the opposite side of the road, meeting me in a very hurried manner from between Fenchurch Street and London Street—about half a minute afterwards I heard a call of "Stop thief!" from the prosecutor, who was about 100 yards behind—I pursued the prisoner, and as I got close to her she doubled her pace—she got over an area grating, and threw something from her hand, which I saw distinctly pass down her dress, and heard it fell, and a second fall underneath—I pursued her, brought her back to the place, and the prosecutor came up, with his chain hanging—a policeman turned his light on, and there was the watch in the area.

GEORGE FREDERICK ARNEY . re-examined. This (produced) is my watch.

WILLIAM JOKES . (City policeman, 566) I took possession of the watch—the prisoner said that she received it for 5s. of the gentleman, not in his presence, but as soon as we accused her at the station—he was the worse for liquor.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

OLD COURT.—Thursday, September 17th, 1857.


Before Mr. Baron Watson and the Third Jury.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-959
VerdictGuilty > manslaughter
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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959. CORNELIUS DENNY (26), was indicted for the wilful murder of Gallo Benzonelli. He was also charged on the Coroner's Inquisition with the like offence.

MR. COOPER. conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN GIBSON . I am an errand boy, and live at No. 40, Phoenix Street. On Saturday night, 23rd Aug., about 12 o'clock, I went into an ice shop in the Hampstead Road—after I had been there a little while, the prisoner came in, with his wife and brother-in-law—he was drunk, but not very drunk—he fell asleep; the shopman, Benzonelli, tried to wake him, but could not—he woke him up at last; I think that was about 2 o'clock—he tried to wake him first by throwing some water in his face; then they got a piece of ice and put down his back, but that did not wake him—he then put another piece of ice; that shook him a little, but he did not wake—a little while afterwards the master of the house, who had been asleep, woke

up, and then they got him off the chair, and he fell down—he got up, and got on another chair, and then Benzonelli went and got the shutters, and pushed him, and then he got up and went outside—Benzonelli then went and put up the shutters, and came in doors; the prisoner spoke to him, but I did not hear the words, and hit him on the side of the face with his right hand—Benzonelli tried to kick at him, but he did not kick him; he kept following him up, trying to kick him—I did not see the prisoner do anything then—Benzonelli then turned back and got a stick; while he was gone to get it, I heard the prisoner say, "Let him come"—I did not hear anything else—Benzonelli tried to hit him with the stick, but he did not hit him—they ran in together up against the shutters, scuffling; they had hold of each other—then two policemen came up, and the prisoner was taken to the station house—I followed—as I was going along I saw a knife dropped by the prisoner's wife—this is it (produced)—I picked it up, and gave it to another boy.

Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. Do you say it was about 12 o'clock when you first went to the shop? A. Not much after 12 o'clock—the prisoner, his wife, and brother-in-law, were in there from a little after 12 o'clock—I was not stopping there all night; I had lost 8d., and did not like to go home—the prisoner had been there about half an hour or twenty minutes when they put the ice to him the first time—his wife tried to wake him and get him out, but could not; the second time they put the ice to him it made him shudder, but he did not wake—it was when he got on the second chair that Benzonelli pushed him with the shutter; he did not strike him with it, he shoved the chair, and that shoved the prisoner; he was holding it on his shoulder; I think the shutter touched the prisoner in the middle of his back—when the deceased followed him up to kick him, the prisoner kept running back—I know he did not touch him, because I was looking at him—I did not see the stick hit him; he held up the stick, but I know it did not hit him—I was about a yard away from them—the prisoner kept running away, so that he could not hit him—he got away about two or three yards, then they both got in together, and were scuffling against the shutters—the prisoner was cut a little in the mouth and about the face.

GIUSEPPE BARETTA . (through an interpreter). I keep an ice shop, at No. 17, Adam's Row, Hampstead Road. The deceased, Gallo Benzonelli, was in my employment; he was twenty-one years of age—on Saturday night 23rd Aug., the prisoner came into my shop with a man and woman—he placed himself on a chair, and went to sleep, from about 2 o'clock until 3—while he was sleeping I do not recollect that anything happened; the deceased was doing his duty, and the prisoner was sleeping—it was about 3 o'clock when Benzonelli asked me whether he was to shut up the shop—I said, "You may do so, and tell the people here that they must go away"—he went to the prisoner, and as he could not express himself better in English, he only said, "Come, get up"—the prisoner's wife also said to him, "Do not make a fool of yourself, but come along"—when I saw that the words of my servant were of no use, I stepped forward myself, and said to the prisoner, "My lad, this won't do; it is late, get up, and go"—he got up, and began to swear, and said, "I will crack your head"—I went to the window to see if I could see a policeman to put him out—while I was standing behind the bar, I gave a glass of ice to a man named Wood, and then went and lighted a cigar, and I saw the prisoner's wife pulling him by the coat, and the deceased pushing him behind—when he was once out of doors, the deceased

came in doors to get the shutters to put up, and when he was outside putting them up, the prisoner said, "You are a b—Frenchman, and a b—rogue," and he gave him three blows behind his ear; the deceased defended himself by giving him some kicks—I can only say that he endeavoured to kick him, but I could not see clearly whether he did kick him, as I was too far off—I then went out of doors to endeavour to separate them, and bring the deceased in—after bringing him in, he took a stick, and walked out with it, lifting it up—whilst he was standing in that position, the prisoner rushed upon him with a knife, as I suppose, but I did not see the knife, and the deceased gave him a blow with the stick on his back—I then took the stick away—this is it (produced)—the policeman then came—I desired the deceased to come in doors, but he cried out, "I am wounded"—I afterwards saw the wound, and the intestines coming out of it—I went to the hospital to see the deceased; he was then dead.

Cross-examined. Q. How long was the prisoner in your shop altogether? A. From about 2 o'clock till 3—he was not there long before 2 o'clock—I was in my shop till half past 1 o'clock, and up to that time I did not see him—when he came in I said to the deceased, "You must not trust that man, because he had some ginger beer once, and did not pay for it"—I went into the parlour, and was slumbering a little—I did not see water thrown upon him, or ice put down his back; at that time I had not a bit of ice in the house—I can swear I did not see the deceased put ice down the prisoner's back twice—his wife and brother-in-law were with him all the while—when I took the stick away from the deceased, I did not strike the prisoner with it—his brother-in-law was going to pull it out of my hands, but when the police came it continued in my possession.

JOSEPH WOOD . I am a bricklayer, and live at No. 17, Middlesex Place, Somers Town. On this Sunday morning, about 3 o'clock, I went to this shop to buy an ice—while I was being served, I saw Mr. Baretta run round the corner, and, looking up, I saw the prisoner spring at the deceased, and strike him with his left hand on the right side of the cheek; that was outside the shop—I then saw the deceased try to kick him; he did not kick him, and he went in and got a stick—when he came out with the stick, I heard the prisoner say, "Let him come, I have got a knife;" with that I saw him pull a knife out of his pocket, and open it—the deceased ran at the prisoner to hit him with the stick, and then, in the struggle, I saw the prisoner's hand, which had the knife in it, go towards the deceased's thigh; the deceased did not hit him with the stick—there was a kind of scuffle; the prisoner cuddled one arm round the deceased's neck, and the other hand was down so, with the knife in it—I saw his hand go towards the deceased's thigh—I was close to them at the time—I saw the knife in his hand at that time, and saw him push it into the man's thigh—this is the knife; the other lad picked it up, and gave it to me, and I gave it to the constable—I do not know what became of the stick—I am certain the deceased did not hit the prisoner with it.

Cross-examined. Q. What made you out at that time? A. I was going fishing to Highgate ponds—I had not been to bed—we generally start about 12 o'clock on Saturday night, and come home again between 10 and 11 o'clock on Sunday morning—I sometimes go to a Sunday school in the afternoon—I did not know Gibson before I saw him there—my father is a bricklayer—I lay bricks and point.

GEORGE STANSBURY . I am the prisoner's brother-in-law. I went with him on this night to Baretta's shop.

Cross-examined Q. How long had you been with the prisoner that night? A. About half an hour before we went in there—we went there between half past 12 and 1 o'clock, and remained till about 3—I remained in the shop all that time—the prisoner was very much in drink—I had not seen him that night, till about half past 12 o'clock; his wife was then with him; she remained with him all the while—I was examined before the Coroner—the prisoner is a smith, and lives in Crescent Street, Hampstead Road; he has a wife, and one child—I saw ice put on the back of his neck, and I took it out—I saw the deceased try to wake him, and in trying to wake him the prisoner fell on the floor—he fell heavily—he was got out of the shop at last by the master and the deceased shoving him out by main force—I tried to get him away—when sober he is a very quiet man; I never saw him insult any one.

THOMAS VINCENT JACKSON . I am a member of the Royal College of Surgeons, and was house surgeon at University College Hospital—the deceased was brought there on 23rd Aug., at 3 o'clock in the morning—I examined him when he first came in—I observed a wound in the right inguinal region, and protruding from the wound was a mass of bowel—I measured it, and it was six inches in length; that wound was exactly an inch in length—a knife would cause such a wound—he died on Tuesday, the 25th—I afterwards made a post mortem examination—I followed the course of that wound—I discovered that there was a corresponding wound on the internal surface of the abdomen, it was longer than the external wound; in the cavity of the abdomen there was evidence of intense inflammation; there was a large quantity of sero purulent fluid there—the intestines were much inflamed, especially that part which protruded on another part called the large intestines; the coats were partially wounded, but were not entirely penetrated—the cause of death was inflammation of the peritoneum, caused by the wound—I examined the other vital parts, and saw nothing to account for death—the inflammation arising from the wound was the cause of death—I was present on the Sunday night when the policeman was there; the deceased was then sinking; he was informed of his state, but not, I believe, until after his deposition was taken.

FRANCIS JULIAN HANLEY . (Policeman, S 366). I went to University Hospital where the man was lying—I took the prisoner with me—whilst he was there something was said by the dying man in French—I speak French—I interpreted to the prisoner what he had said, and was told by the sergeant to ask him if he had any thing to say, or any questions to ask—he then said that he had not stabbed him in the shop, as the statement of the dying man had led him to suppose—I then asked the dying man where he had been stabbed, and he said, "On the pavement"—previous to that the prisoner said, "I am guilty; I stabbed him."

(Thomas caiger, coachsmith, of No. 17, Coburg Street, Fusion Square;—Shufflebottom, cab builder, William Street, Hampstead Road; and James Matthews, coachsmith, No. 28, Grafton Yard, deposed to the prisoner's good character.)

GUILTY . of Manslaughter.— Ten Years Penal Servitude.

Before Mr. Justice Crompton.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-960
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

960. ANN DONOVAN (18) , Feloniously stabbing and wounding George Gymer, with intent to murder him. 2nd COUNT., with intent to do him some grievous bodily harm.

MESSRS. BODKIN. and CLERK. conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE GYMER . I am a police constable. On the afternoon of 19th

Aug. I was on duty in Endell Street, Drury Lane, about half past 2 o'clock in the day—while there I observed a boy running, followed by some other boys; they came out of a court there—I caught hold of the first boy, who was being pursued; that was to keep the other boys away from him—he went into a fit, and I proceeded with him to the workhouse—as I went, the prisoner followed me from the court, with a number of other girls—the prisoner pushed me, and my hat fell off in consequence—I was turning round to save my hat, and touched the prisoner in the face—I did it as I was swinging myself round to catch my hat; it was with my open hand—she said she would have my b—life for that—there was another constable near, and I told him to turn her back—he took her away—I went on to the workhouse with the boy, and left him there—I returned to my beat in Endell Street about a quarter of an hour afterwards, and met the prisoner at the corner of Short's Gardens and Endell Street—she came over to me from the other aide of Endell Street, and asked me whether I had taken the boy to the workhouse—I told her I had done so—she called me a lagging sod, and said, "I suppose you would like to have lagged him, like you have a good many others"—I told her to go away, that I wanted nothing to say to her—I put my hand on her shoulder, and told her to go—that was all—at the same moment I dropped my glove on the ground, and, as I stooped to pick it up, the prisoner said, "I have been home for something that will do for you," and I felt myself stabbed in the back, of the head, on the right side—I felt very weak, but tried to recover myself and, on getting up into an erect position, she stabbed me again in the neck, on the right side; she then stabbed at me again through the collar; it went through both my stock and the collar of my coat, and penetrated my neck slightly—she then tried to stab me in the stomach, at the same time she cut my browsers in three places about the waist, but did not touch my flesh—she then said, "If I can't have your life, I will put your b—eye out," and at the same time she struck at me with the knife; it cut me on the cheek—I caught her hand as it came at my eye, and brought it on my cheek bone—at that time I was very faint from loss of blood—I called out, "For God's sake, take the knife," and fainted—a person named Buckfield came up, and secured her, and another constable came up, and assisted—I was taken to the hospital, and had, my wounds dressed—I was five days in the hospital, and am still an out patient—the prisoner was quite sober.

COURT. Q. Did you know her before? A. I had seen her, that is all; I never had any talk with her, that I am aware of.

Prisoner. I was coming along, the second time I saw him, and had the penknife in my pocket, and he told me I ought to be hung, like my uncle.

Witness. I did not say that, I knew nothing about her uncle at the time—I did hit her in the mouth, as I have said, in turning round to save my hat, I did not see any blood—I did not call her a b—young wh—; I never said a word to her until she came and addressed me.

COURT. Q. When you touched her, did she complain of being hurt? A. No, all she said was, "I will have your b—life for that"—I could not have hurt her, I merely touched her with my open hand in turning round.

WILLIAM EDWARD BUCKFLELD . I am an artist's colurman, and live in Ossulton Street, Somers Town. I was passing down Endell Street, on 19th Aug., about 3 o'clock, and saw the prisoner and the constable struggling together; I saw the prisoner raise her hand and strike the constable in the face with some sharp instrument—I only saw her strike him once, it was under the cheek bone—I was on the other side of the way—I ran across

and seized her hand with the knife in it—she threatened to serve me the same—the constable was bleeding very much indeed from several wounds—I did not succeed in getting the knife away from the prisoner, she held it firmly; another constable came up and struck her over the knuckles, and then she dropped the knife on the pavement; he could not get it from her without—she said she could only be hung for it—I assisted in taking her to the station; the constable was taken to the hospital, he was in a very exhausted state—I firmly believe the prisoner was sober, she was excited.

GEORGE DUFF . (Policeman, F 95). On the afternoon in question, I saw the prisoner struggling with Gymer—I went to his assistance after Buckfield had gone up and laid hold of the prisoner's hand; I saw this knife in her hand, it is a common penknife, the larger blade was open, she held the handle tightly clenched in her hand—I directly knocked it out of her hand with my staff; I took her to the station—she was sober, the officer was bleeding very much indeed; blood was flowing out from the back part of his head, and blood was creeping down from underneath the left eye; he was much exhausted.

Prisoner. Q. Were you not there at first when he struck me, and cut my mouth? A. No, I was in Queen Street, Seven Dials, when I saw him cross over to you—that was at the corner of Short's Gardens and Endell Street; he crossed over the road to you—that was as he returned from the workhouse.

MR. BODKIN. Q. How wide is Short's Gardens? A. There is just room for one vehicle to pass through at a time—I cannot say whether the prisoner was standing at the corner or moving; as soon as he crossed over to her the struggle commenced, and I directly ran to his assistance—I did not see her stab him; I did not see the beginning of it.

JURY. Q. Did you see anything of the policeman catching the boy? A. No; I was not aware that any words had taken place between the prisoner and the officer.

COURT. Q. Are you quite sure that he crossed to her? Q. I saw him standing at one corner of Short's Gardens, and the prisoner at the other, about five or six yards off, and he crossed over the road to her, and the scuffle commenced directly.

HENRY PALMER . I was house surgeon at Charing Cross Hospital when Gymer was brought there—he was in a state of collapse from loss of blood—I examined him, and found a punctured wound at the side of the neck, at the angle of the jaw; another wound on the same side of the neck, lower down; but that was comparatively slight—he had also a punctured wound at the back part of the head, on the same side; he was bleeding from that wound when he was brought in—he had another punctured wound on the left cheek, just below the eye, that was not of any depth, it went on the bone—he was under my care for a considerable time, he was five days in the hospital, and continued as an out patient afterwards—the wounds were of that character that dangerous results might follow; a small artery was divided at the back part of the head, no large artery was cut—the wound at the angle of jaw was near the carotid artery.

COURT. Q. When you say that dangerous results might follow, do you mean inflammation or erysipelas? A. Yes; the depth of the deepest wound was from an inch to an inch and a half; it would require considerable force to inflict that; the instrument was blunt, it would produce the wounds—it would require considerable force to puncture the neck through the coat and stock.

Prisoner's Defence. On the morning this happened, from 7 o'clock till 1, I had been drinking; I went home, and stayed there for about a quarter of an hour—I then went to wait for a person at the corner of Endell Street; I saw Gymer pass by with a silly youth that is about the neighbourhood; I looked very hard in the boy's face, and before I had time to say anything, the policeman up with his hand and struck me in the mouth, and it bled; at the same time he said if I would stay there till he came back he would run me in, I suppose he meant take me into custody; some of the neighbours advised me to go home; instead of going home I went up to my aunt's, a few streets off; I forgot all about the row, and was coming back, Gymer was standing there with a man in a smock frock; he came straight across to me; I was ten yards from him; he called me a b—young wh—, and told me I ought to be hung like my uncle, and kicked me in the side—I got so excited that I do not remember what happened afterwards.

GEORGE GYMER . re-examined. I did not touch her in the side on the second occasion, I am quite positive of that.

GUILTY . on the second Count.— Ten Tears Penal Servitude.

(MR. BODKIN. stated, that the prisoner had been repeatedly in custody for drunkenness and assaults on the police, and had Seen twice convicted of assaults upon the female turnkeys in the prisons where she had been confined.)

Before Mr. Baron Watson,

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-961
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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961. JOHN CHESHIRE (39) , Stealing, whilst employed in the Post Office, a letter, containing a 10l. bank note; the property of Her Majesty's Postmaster-General: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Four Years Penal Servitude.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-962
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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962. WILLIAM EDWIN JAMES HILLIARD (15) , Feloniously uttering a forged certificate of baptism, with intent to defraud.

MESSRS. PETEBSDORF. and SLEIGH. conducted the Prosecution.

ALGERNON EDWARD WEST . I am a clerk in the Admiralty. Commissioners were appointed for the examination of persons appointed to junior situations under Government—I have the Gazette here—upon the selection by the First Lord of the Admiralty of any person for employment, a form is sent to the person so selected; it is a printed form—this is one of them (producing one)—it is to be filled up in writing—it is sent to the person selected to be employed, not to his friends—a minute is made in the First Lord's private office, to inform the Civil Service Commissioners of the day upon which the person is to be examined—it is my duty to send those letters—the defendant was a candidate for the Civil Service—his father made an application—I do not recollect the individual letter being sent to the defendant—it is the usual course to send one of these forms to candidates—to the best of my belief, I sent one, properly filled up, to the defendant—I have a memorandum of the date in a book, but it is not here—it was on 17th July—I do not recollect it without the book—I have the minute here, ordering the Commissioners to be acquainted with the fact of his being examined on such a day—I cannot swear, on referring to that memorandum, whether or not such a letter was sent to the defendant—the age of candidates for the Civil Service is from seventeen to twenty-five, with some exceptions—seventeen is the youngest age at which they are admitted.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. (with MR. LILLEY.) Q. Is that a recent arrangement on the subject of the age? A. It was an arrangement made, I think, since the order in Council, which was on 21st May,

1855—I believe the defendant's father is master on board the Agamemnon,—I do not know that he went through the examination creditably—I think the Commissioners reported that they could not give him a certificate, because of his age.

EDMUND ELIAS HUMPHREYS . I am senior clerk in the office of the Civil Service Commissioners. The defendant came to my office on 27th July—I asked him to answer in writing certain questions, which are printed on a paper, placing the paper before him, one of those questions being, "What was your age on your last birthday?"—this is the paper which he wrote in my presence—(This described his birthday as May 22nd, 1840, and his age last birthday as seventeen)—he had before, or at the time he had that paper given to him, handed in certain papers which I examined, while he was filling up the form—these are them (produced)—I looked at them, and noticed that there were erasures, and, when he brought me the paper filled op, I said to him, "Are you aware that both these certificates have been altered?"—he said, "Yes"—I then said to him, "How do you account for that?"—he said that Mr. Hatchard, who is the gentleman signing one of them, had at first sent them up wrong, and that he had returned them to Mr. Hatchard to be corrected, and Mr. Hatchard had returned them in their present state to him—I said it was impossible that that explanation could be the correct one, because one of the certificates was the superintendent registrar's certificate, with which Mr. Hatchard would have nothing to do, and which he would certainly not alter—he repeated that that had been the cause—I again expressed some doubt, and he then replied that he did not know how it was; he supposed his father would know something about it—I retained these papers—he was examined, I think, on the following day—the papers were then in the same state as they are now.

Cross-examined. Q. What was the office for which he was an applicant? A. A temporary clerkship under the Admiralty—I have no means of knowing what the salary would be attached to that—the appointment would be one that he would be liable to be turned out of immediately, as I understand it, but I do not know exactly—I gave him the order for examination in the usual course, and sent him in to the Commissioners, leaving it to them to do as they thought proper; turning him away from examination was beyond my power—he was examined before the Commissioners decided on the case, but the examination was never considered—I am quite certain that when I said to him, "Are you aware there have been alterations?" he replied, "Yes"—I can pledge my oath of it; I say so distinctly—he used the word "Yes"—when he spoke of the papers having been sent down to Mr. Hatchard, he said, "I sent them down," but that I am not so positive about; I believe he did not say they had been sent down, but I would not pledge myself that he did not.

REV. JOHN HATCHARD . I am Vicar of St. Andrew's, Plymouth. This certificate of baptism was both written and signed by me at the time it purports to bear date—I have with me the original register of baptisms—when I made this copy, it was not pasted on paper as it is now—there is an alteration in the document, which was not made by me, or by my authority—I believe it was never sent back to me after I parted with it.

Cross-examined. Q. Is there not a mistake in the name? A. There is a transposition of names—I wrote the names on this paper as they are in the register, and by some one, who I know not, a transposition has been made by figures, which I had nothing to do with—the name in the register in my handwriting is Edwin William James—here a figure "I" is put over

the "William," and a "2" over the "Edwin"—that was certainly not done by the clerk, the transaction was entirely my own—I cannot tell whose writing the figures "1" and "2" are—I have known the prisoner all his life; I never heard of his being other than a good boy; his friends are most respectable—I know his father and mother, and knew his grand-father—the boy was always thought well of—his brother lives at Plymouth, and I believe his aunt.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Was that Registrar's certificate of births ever sent to you? A. Never—it was never in flay hands before this inquiry—(The certificate of baptism stated Edwin William James Hiliard to have been baptized 28th Aug., 1840. The Registrar's certificate stated the birth to be 22nd May, 1840).

JOHN DENNIS . I am the gaoler attached to the Westminster Police Court. When the prisoner was given into custody, I asked his age, and he gave it as fifteen.

Cross-examined. Q. This was six or seven weeks after the affair? A. Yes.

The prisoner received a good character.


(There was another indictment for altering the certificate of birth, upon which no evidence was offered.)

NEW COURT.—Thursday, September 17th, 1857.


Before Mr. Recorder and the Fifth Jury,

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-963
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

963. THOMAS JOHNSON (38) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of Daniel George Rees, and stealing therein 1049 yards of silk and other goods, value 411l. 19s.; his property.

MR. RIBTON. conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES COOK . I am porter to Mr. Rees, of No. 18, Russell Street; I sleep on the premises. On the night of 30th July I fastened the premises in the usual way; I saw the doors all secure, and I took the keys—I sleep in a small room—in the course of the night I heard a noise, and got out of bed, but, as I had heard noises before, I went to bed again—I then heard a louder noise, and I got up, and alarmed the young man up stairs; he went down with me, and I found the front door open, and lots of matches about; on the table there was a dark lantern; in the counting house there were chisels, a crow bar, a knife, and a pair of goloshes.

Cross-examined by MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Did you examine the lock of the front door? A. It was taken, away.

HENRY BEESTON . I am in the employ of Mr. Rees. On 31st July I got there in the morning, at half past 5o'clock—I do not sleep on the premises—I went there, and found the house broken open; about 1000 yards of silk were missing, 300 or 400 handkerchiefs, and three table covers—this piece of silk (produced) was in the stock on the day before; here are 26 1/2 yards of it—this is a quantity we never sell—I know the pattern of it—here is where the ticket was, which corresponds with the place where we always put it, and we always use a particular gum mark—the ticket is never taken off when we sell the silk—it is here partly taken off; from what remains I am able to say that it is our mark—the usual way is to pin the mark on; we always gum them.

Cross-examined. Q. Can you say that there is no house in London that does gum them on? A. I never saw any—when a person buys an article, we leave the ticket on, and they are at liberty to take it off—this pattern is not made especially for us, but I have not seen one like it—26 1/2 yards is an uncommon quantity to sell—this is twenty-four inches wide; it would be the quantity for two dresses—there are thirteen or fourteen persons in the employ—we enter in the book every length we sell—I have not the books here—we took stock on 14th or 15th Aug., and this happened on the 31st—there is no other mark on this silk that enables me to identify it, only the gummed ticket, the pattern, and the quantity.

MR. RIBTON. Q. Did you see the 26 1/2 yards of this silk on your premises on 30th July? A. Yes, and on the 31st it was missing.

ROBERT M'KENZIE . (Police inspector, F). On the morning of 31st July I was called to the prosecutor's house, at half past 2 o'clock—I found it broken open by a jemmy—the flap had been broken up, and I found marks on the area wall, where persons apparently had gone down—on going into the counting house, I found the door had been broken open with this poker, or wrenched open—the shop was all in confusion, and a quantity of matches and these tools were there.

WILLIAM SMITH . (Policeman). On 22nd Aug. I went to the prisoner's house, No. 43, Devonshire Street, Queen Square, but not concerning this charge—I went with another officer to the second floor front room—I found the prisoner there, and in a box in the room I found this piece of silk and some bill heads with the name of Bees, Draper, Russell Street, Covent Garden—there were six or seven of them, there might have been eight—they were like this bill (produced)—they were in the same box where the silk was—some skeleton keys were found by my brother officer in the room—I asked the prisoner how he accounted for the possession of the silk; he said his wife was a dress maker, and she had to make it up—his wife was in the room, but she did not hear it—I asked her, in his presence, how she came in possession of it, and she said that she bought it—when I got the bill heads in my hand, and found they were blank, I said they were not of much consequence, and I laid them on the table—the prisoner took them up, and was about to put them on the fire—I tried to prevent his doing so; he said, "You have looked at them once, you don't want them again, you have no right to them"—my brother officer came up, and tried to get them from his hand, and in the scuffle the prisoner put them into a basin of water—he crushed them in his hand, and destroyed them; we could not get them.

GEORGE SILVERTON . (Policeman, A 293). On 22nd Aug. I accompanied the last witness to the prisoner's house, in Devonshire Street; on searching the room, I found this piece of silk in a large box in a corner of the room—I put it on the table, and told the officer to take care of it—I searched further, and found eight bill heads—what was on them was, "Bought of George Rees, No. 18, Great Russell Street, Covent Garden"—I saw the prisoner attempt to destroy them, and he finally succeeded in doing so—I saw his wife go to the box where I found the silk, and take out a basket; she went and put it in a dark corner of the room; I followed her, took it from her, and found in it these thirteen skeleton keys—I found a small piece of red twill and this piece of paper in the box where I found the silk—(Read: "329 at 1s. 3d.; 86 at 1s., 4l. 6s.; 95 handkerchiefs, 4l. 10s. 8d.; 4 table covers, 10s.; Coburg, 7s. 9d")—I asked the prisoner how he became possessed of the keys—he said, "D—the keys, they don't belong to

me"—I heard the other officer ask the prisoner how he got the silk—he said that his wife was a dress maker, and she had it to make up—the wife afterwards said that she bought it.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you go back to the house afterwards? A. Yes, to see if I had overlooked any of the bill heads—I asked the woman if her mother had any duplicates—she said, "No."

DANIEL GEORGE BEES . I am a silk mercer and draper, of Great Russell Street. I was not in town on the night this happened; I left home on the Monday previously—I received a telegraphic message, and came to town—this silk was in stock when I left; it was purchased on 0th June; there were fifty-two yards of it—we generally sell thirteen yards, we never sell twenty-six yards and a half—we had sold thirteen yards of it, and twelve yards and half, which would leave exactly twenty-six yards and a half—it is a very particular pattern—this mark is quite peculiar to my business—I never knew it done by any one; it has been attempted to be obliterated—I have examined it with a microscope; they have left a certain portion, which I am able to say is my mark—on this paper is "329 at 1s. 3d.;" that would be the length of three whole pieces of silk that we lost—the price of it would be about 3s. 4d. a yard—this eighty-six yards I can say nothing about—the ninety-five handkerchiefs exactly correspond with a portion that we lost—the four table covers we lost were worth 11s. 9d. each—the handkerchiefs were worth 5s. or 5s. 6d. each—here is some Coburg, and something else which I cannot read.

Cross-examined. Q. When did you first see this paper? A. At the police court—I had examined my stock on the night I came home—this 329 does not say silk—the pieces of silk come in 110 or 109 yards; they are always that length—this piece of silk came in on 5th June, and the robbery was on 30th July—I am quite positive we had not sold twenty-six yards and a half—nothing is sold but what is entered in the book—one of my young men absconded on the day of the robbery—this silk is very particular, I never saw one like it before—a person taking the mark off might tear it.

GUILTY . of Receiving.

(The prisoner was also charged with having been before convicted.)

GEORGE POCOCK . I was a police officer. I produce a certificate of the prisoner's former conviction—(Read: "Central Criminal Court; Thomas Dormer, Convicted, May, 1851, of receiving stolen goods; Confined one year")—I was present—the prisoner is the man.

GUILTY.— Six Years Penal Servitude.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-964
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

Related Material

964. MARY ANN WILLIAMS (29) , Feloniously cutting and wounding Joseph Williams, with intent to do him some grievous bodily harm.

MR. METCALFE. conducted the Prosecution.

EDWIN TOWNSEND . (Police sergeant, N 23). On 10th Sept., between 8 and 9 o'clock in the evening, I went to Mansfield Street, Kingsland Road—I found the prisoner and her husband, who was bleeding from a wound on his left cheek—I perceived but one wound—I asked now it was done—the prisoner said, "I did it; I meant to cut his throat"—I took her, and on the way to the station she said several times that she meant to cut his throat, as he had told her that in her absence he had been with her sister—her husband was drunk.

Prisoner. I did not say those words. Witness. Yes, she did several times.

WILLIAM WARNS . (Policeman, N 370). I went with the last witness, and saw the prisoner and her husband—she said that she had cut him with a

knife, and she was sorry it was not his throat, as she meant to cut his b—throat—I produce this knife, which was brought by a little boy; it is a pointed carving knife; it was stained with blood—there were no knives or supper things on the table.

JOSEPH WILLIAMS . I am the prisoner's husband. I was tipsy that night—I provoked my wife, and she inflicted this wound on me.

GEORGE WILLIAM HENRY COWARD . I am a surgeon. I examined the prosecutor—I found a wound, about four inches in length, under his ear—It was not very deep—there was a second small wound above the other—the wounds had not gone through the jaw.

GUILTY . of unlawfully wounding.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury and Prosecutor.— Confined Six Months.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-965
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

965. JAMES M'CLEOD (60) , Feloniously stabbing and wounding Eliza Wicks, with intent to do her some grievous bodily harm.

MR. CAARTEN. conducted the Prosecution.

ELIZA WICKS . I am single. I for some time lived with the prisoner—I had separated from him about a week before this happened, on 27th Aug.—between the time of our separation and this occuring he had been following me, and made use of bad language—he called me a b—w—, and said that he would have my b—life—on that evening I had just come from work, and was coming down Drury Lane—I turned into Clare Court, and felt somebody strike me on the side of my head—I said, "What is that?" and I went into a pork shop, and called for assistance—the prisoner followed me, and kept cutting me with a knife—he stabbed me under the ear, and cut me round my neck—I bled very much—he said, "I will have your b—life"—I called out "Murder!" two men came into the shop, caught hold of him, and took the knife out of his hand—I was taken to King's College Hospital.

Prisoner. It was her fault.

CHARLES HEALY . I am a printer. I was in Clare Court on the evening of 27th Aug.—I saw the last witness and the prisoner struggling together in the pork shop—I heard her cries—I ran into the shop, and took hold of the prisoner's arm—he had a small penknife in his hand, and I saw him strike her twice with it in the face—she was bleeding—I got the knife from the prisoner, and handed it to the policeman—Mr. Lee had hold of the prisoner while I took the knife from him—I heard the prisoner say, "You b—w—, I will have your b—life, and be hung for you at Newgate"—he said that he had been waiting for her above an hour.

Prisoner. You did not take the knife from my hand; another man took it, and gave it to you; you did not see it Witness. Yes, I did—I pulled you off the woman while you were striking at her.

HENEY LEE . I assisted in taking the prisoner.

Prisoner. Q. Did you see me use the knife to her? A. I saw you strike with the hand that had the knife in it—the last witness got the knife out of your hand.

WILLIAM ASPINSHAW . (Police sergeant, T 15). I took the prisoner, and produce the knife given to me by Charles Healy.

JOHN ELLIOTT . I am assistant surgeon at King's College Hospital. At half past 9 o'clock that evening I examined Eliza Wicks—I found two punctured wounds on the left side of her head, another on the right cheek, half an inch deep, and an incised wound, four inches long, extending under the chin—that was merely a scratch—I dressed the wounds, and she left—I

have not seen her since—such a knife as this would have inflicted the wounds.

(The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read, as follows: "She was always spending my money, and spoiling my shirts; on Monday we quarrelled, and she struck me; I meant to do her some injury at the moment; I could not put up with her treatment")

Prisoner's Defence. She was always spending my money, and if I asked for victuals I could not get any; she goes to another man, and that man knocked me down, and she tried to kick me where I am ruptured; if she had, I should have been a dead man.

COURT. to ELIZA WICKS. Q. How long had you lived with him? A. Four or five months—he had threatened me with the knife about a fortnight before; I left him in consequence of his treatment.

GUILTY .— Six Tears Penal Servitude.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-966
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

966. CATHARINE GREEN(18) , Unlawfully obtaining, by false pretences, 1 shirt, value 2s.; the goods of Henry Young.

HENRY HOLLINGS . I am a beer shop keeper, and live in Bethnal Green. On the afternoon of 21st Aug. the prisoner came, and asked for half a pint of porter, and she tendered me this Prince of Wales's medal—I said to her, "It is a great pity you have not some better way of getting your living than robbing poor people"—she said that she did not know what it was, and she took it in have Street—I said, "The sooner you are off the better."

JOHN GILL . I am in the service of the last witness. I heard him order the prisoner to go away—she left, and I watched her—she went down Hope Town, and stayed ten minutes pr a quarter of an hour—she then got with another person, and went down Church Street, and into Shoreditch, and she stopped, and went into the Chequers beer shop—I then saw her standing at Mr. Young's window, and I stopped and saw her go in—when she came out I went in, and spoke to the young man—the person I saw the prisoner with was Carmody, who was taken, but discharged.

ROBERT ARTHUR . I am shopman to Mr. Young. On 21st Aug. the prisoner came in with another female, and asked for a shirt, which hung at the door—the price was 1s. 11 1/2;—she gave me a good shilling, 5 1/2;d. in halfpence, and a medal—I had not put it into the till when the last witness came in—I then rubbed the medal, and found it was brass.

Prisoner. When I was taken back to the shop by the officer, he had put the money into the till. Witness. No, the shilling was—I did not say that you were in the shop at 3 o'clock, I said about half past 2.

DANIEL WHALE . (City policeman, 650). The prisoner was given into my custody—she said, at the station, that it was not a coin at all; it was a medal.

Prisoner's Defence. I was not aware that the sixpence was bad; I was just going to be married, and I had borrowed the money.

DANIEL KELLY . The prisoner asked me for some money, and I lent her some—I did not know it was bad—I had given it her to buy a shirt—there might have been a bad sixpence amongst it.

GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-967
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

967. JEAN BAPTISTE VAVASSEUR (41) , Unlawfully obtaining 240 yards of alpaca, by false pretences.

MR. METCALFE. conducted the Prosecution.

ALFRED DOWSON . I am a warehouseman in the employ of Mr. Milligan, of No. 38, Newgate Street. On Tuesday, 25th Aug., the prisoner came to

the warehouse, between 10 and 11 o'clock—I had never seen him before—he said that he wanted to look at some goods, and I showed him a large quantity—he looked them over—he said that he was a commercial agent, and wanted to send them to Belgium—he looked out alpacas to the amount of about 49l.—the next morning Riviere came, and said that Mr. Vavsseur had sent him for some goods—I said, "How many?"—he said that he did not know; he would go and see—he went out, and in a few minutes Riviere and the prisoner came together, and the prisoner said he wanted six pieces to send directly to Belgium as samples; that he had got an order that must go off directly that day—he left, and I took the six pieces to No. 22, Harp Lane—the prisoner had given me that direction, and said that was his place—I was to leave the goods there—I saw Riviere there—I think I left the goods about 12 o'clock, or between 12 and 1 o'clock—I saw the prisoner coming down the street, and going into the warehouse at the same time, directly after I left the goods—that was on the 26th—the next day the prisoner came to our warehouse—I had told him that Mr. Green was not in during the day, but only mornings and evenings—Mr. Green is the manager—the prisoner came the next day, about 3 o'clock, knowing that Mr. Green was not in—he said that he wanted some more goods, and he looked out a large parcel of alpacas—Mr. Green had told me I ought not to let the goods go, and I kept the prisoner in conversation, and gave him into custody—he tried to get away; he opened the window, and tried to get out—he got the poker and tongs, and wanted to break the door open—I remained with him about two hours.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Did the prisoner speak French or English? A. He did not speak English very plainly, but I could understand what he said—I locked him up, and he went in a great passion—he did not speak any French; he spoke English as well as he could—I took the goods to Harp Lane—the name of Vavasseur was on the door—I went in, and saw Riviere there, and left the goods—if he had said that he wanted to send them to Belgium, or to Constantinople, I should not perhaps have objected—if he had not said he wanted them directly, I should not have let him have them.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Would it have made any difference to you if he had said he was going to send them to the pawnbroker's? A. Yes—I gave them in consequence of his saying he wanted to send them to Belgium—I know that Belgium was the place where goods are sent—he had a letter in his hand, and held it up as if it were an order.

GEORGE ABRAHAM DAVIS . I live in Newport Street. On 26th Aug. the prisoner came, between 2 and 3 o'clock, in a cab, and asked if I could make an advance of 15l. or 16l.—I said that I had not the money, and could not do it, but I would go with him to Attenborough's, and took him there, and pawned the things—I did not see the pieces of alpaca till they were delivered—the cab was driven on to the pawnbroker's—I had seen a man in the cab when it came, and the same person remained in it—I do not know Riviere—it was driven on to the pawnbroker's, and the prisoner and the man were in it—I walked—I explained that the prisoner required an advance of 16l. or 17l., and Mr. Attenborough advanced 14l. on them—the goods were handed out of the cabby the other man, and were brought into the shop by the prisoner—the prisoner paid the cabman out of the change that was given him—the money was handed to the prisoner, minus the duplicate that was given for the goods—that was charged for, leaving him change out of the half sovereign.

EDMUND WILLIAMS . I am in the service of Mr. Attenborough, in Charlotte Street, Fitzroy Square. I saw these goods taken from Vavasseur—Mr. Davis came in with him—they were pawned in the name of Davis, and the book was signed by Davis.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you know Mr. Davis? A. The manager knew him—I believe he is a respectable auctioneer.

THOMAS WINSTEAD GREEN . I am agent to John Milligan, Son, and Co, of Newgate Street—when I came home on Wednesday, 26th Aug., Mr. Dowson said something to me, and I gave him some instruction—on the Thursday afternoon I came home about 5 o'clock, and I found the prisoner in the warehouse locked up—that was the first time I had seen him—he began to talk, and I told him I wanted no talk; I thought he was a great rascal, I wanted the money or the goods immediately, and he put his two thumbs up to his nose—I did not get the money, and I seat for a policeman—this is the alpaca—they are worth 24l. and a few shillings.

ALFRED DOWSON . re-examined. These are the patterns I gave the prisoner.

CHARLES BARLEY . (City policeman, 67). I took the prisoner into custody—I searched him at the station, and found on him three envelopes with the name of Milligan and Son printed on them—when I took him he handed me a letter addressed to himself from Milligan and Son—I found, on him a delivery note for the alpacas, and a letter addressed to Mr. F. Coatts signed Baron De Vavasseur, and written in French.

MR. RIBTON. to ALFRED DOWSON. Q. Did the prisoner give you any references? A. Yes; the names of three gentlemen on the 25th—Mr. Davis was one—the references made no difference in my conduct, I did not know the parties—he gave the names and addresses.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-968
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

968. CHARLOTTE KNOX CROSS (28) , Unlawfully obtaining, by false pretences, 1 piece of paper, and 5l. 7s. 4d., with intent to defraud.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. and MR. MAULE. conducted the Prosecution.

ALEXANDER SCOTT FLINDERS . I am a clerk in the service of the East India Company, in Leadenhall Street. I remember Captain Robert Trotter Knox being in their service, and I remember his widow, Charlotte Knox Knox, receiving the pension money—in 1842, she was admitted on the fund called the Lord Clive Fund, a fund for the widows of officers—she received the pension quarterly; these are the documents handed in to my department—here is a receipt for her pension on 5th Jan., 1857—on receiving it it was necessary to produce a declaration signed by her before a Magistrate or a minister, saying that she still continued to be the widow of the officer—that was the condition on which she received her pension—it would cease on her ceasing to be a widow—she came to me on 5th Jan., and handed me this declaration—(Read: "I hereby certify that I have seen and examined Charlotte Knox Knox, and to the best of my knowledge and belief she is the person, C. R Ganny"—"I solemnly declare that I was the lawful wife of Robert Trotter Knox, late captain in the East India Company's service, and that I have not contracted marriage with any other person; I make this solemn declaration, Charlotte Knox Knox.")—I gave her an order on the cashier for 5l. 7s. 4d.—I should not have issued the order if she had not given this declaration, stating that she was still a widow.

CAVE BROWN . I am a clerk in the cashier's department in the East India House. I am acquainted with the writing of the prisoner—I went over to the Consul's Office, at Antwerp—I produce this extract, under the

seal of the Consul: "Oct. 11, 1855; Richard Osborn Cross, widower, married to Charlotte Knox Knox, widow, and made oath that they believed there was not any impediment to the said marriage; and they have for one month lived and had their usual respective places of abode within the said Consulate"—This is a true copy—I examined the register at the Consul's, and saw the signature of Mrs. Cross to it.

HENRY THOMAS EDWARDS . I am clerk to an attorney. I went to the prisoner, she told me she was Mrs. Osborn Cross, and that her husband's name was Richard Osborn Cross—I saw Mr. Cross afterwards, and he spoke of her as his wife in her presence—she told me she was married abroad somewhere, and offered to show me the certificate; I said I did not wish to see it.

Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. How came you to go there? A. I went with a constable to serve a warrant for Mr. Cross—I swear that the prisoner spoke to me—I was subpœnaed four or five days ago—I was not examined before the Magistrate—Mr. Cross is here now.

MR. GIFFARD. called

RICHARD OSBORN CROSS . I was married to the prisoner at Antwerp—I had been previously married to another lady—I saw that lady last Sunday fortnight; I had not seen her before since Nov., 1843.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Where did you see her last Sunday fort night? A. At Brighton—I was taken to see her—it seems that at the time I married the prisoner I was a married man; I did not know it—I heard that my wife was dead. (MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. here withdrew from the prosecution.)


(The prisoner was again indicted for forging a receipt, with intent to defraud, on which no evidence was offered.)


THIRD COURT.—Thursday, September 17th, 1857.



Before Michael Prendergast, Esq., Q. C., and the Sixth Jury.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-969
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

969. GEORGE WELCH (21) , Forging and uttering a request for the delivery of 20lbs. weight of cochineal; with intent to defraud.

MR. HORRY. conducted the Prosecution.

PHILIP MILLER . I live at No. 3, Hand Alley, Moorfields, and am in the service of Valentine and another, drysalters, of No. 6, High Street, Shoreditch. On Friday afternoon, 4th Sept, a little after 5 o'clock, the prisoner came—I was well acquainted with him by sight, as I had seen him when I had been to deliver goods at Keith's, but he has not worked there for some time—he inquired of me whether we had some cochineal that would suit Mr. Keith—I said, "Yes," and gave him a sample to show Mr. Keith—he went away, and returned with this order (produced), at 6 o'clock, as we were closing the shop, and I gave him twenty pounds of cochineal—(Read: "Please let bearer have 20 lbs. of s. c. neal. Thos. Keith. Sept 4th, 1857.")

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Can the prisoner write? A. He said that he could not, when we wanted him to sign for it—Mr. Keith is a customer—I have seen the prisoner at work about the silk.

CHARLES FISH . I am in the employ of Valentine and others. I was in the shop, and saw the prisoner with a piece of paper in his hand—Miller told him that I should go with him with the cochineal, and he then produced the order—if persons come without an order, I take the goods—I did not know him before—I heard him say distinctly, "I come for twenty pounds of cochineal, for Mr. Keith."

NICHOLL CAGER . I travel for Mr. Keith, a silk dyer, of No. 9, North Side, Bethnal Green. This order is not his writing or mine—no one but Mr. Keith and myself issue such orders—the prisoner was in Mr. Keith's employment between two and three years.

Cross-examined. Q. How many people are employed there? A. About thirty-six generally—if I and Mr. Keith are out of the way, his son, Mr. William Keith, would give an order—this is not the son's writing.

COURT. Q. Did the prisoner bring any cochineal to the warehouse? A. Not to my knowledge.

THOMAS KEITH . I am a silk dyer. This order is not my writing, nor my son's, nor anybody's that I know—it is not written with my authority—the prisoner was not in my employment, he had left about two years.

GUILTY .—He was farther charged with having been before convicted.

WILLIAM HARVER . (Policeman, H 208). I produce a certificate (Read: "Clerkenwell Sessions, Feb., 1857; George Welsh, Convicted of stealing a coat; Confined two months")—I was present—the prisoner is the person.

GUILTY.— Confined Six Months.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-970
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

970. CATHERINE REGAN (19) and ANN FLYNN (19) , Robbery on William John Davis, and stealing from his person 14s. 2d.; his property.

MR. HORRY. conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM JOHN DAVIS . I am a grocer, of No. 1, Coleman Place, Banner Street, St. Luke's. On Saturday night, 2nd Aug., about 12 o'clock, I was going along Golden Lane, and the prisoner Regan came out of a court or a doorway at a very dark part, and struck me a blow under my left ear with her fist—I did not see her before she struck me—it caused me severe pain, and was swollen for two or three days afterwards—I do not know whether she had anything in her fist, but it was a very hard blow—Flynn then came on my other side, and seized me by the throat, marking my neck with her nails so much that it was bleeding when I appeared before the Alderman on Monday—I was sober—she had her thumb under my throat, and here is the mark of her nails above—I seized both the prisoners, and called for assistance—Regan pulled me down, and Flynn put her hand into my trowsers pocket, and turned it out—I kept hold of them both by their clothes, and we were all on the ground together—I lost my money, four half crowns, two sixpences, one penny, and two or four halfpence; I have not seen it since—a policeman came up, and I gave Regan into custody; just as he came up, Flynn bit me on this hand in several places, and her dress tore, and she got away from me—my money was safe when I left my father's house, about twenty minutes before—I was going to fetch a pair of boots from Barbican—I went with Regan to the station, and on Sunday morning, about 10 minutes past 6 o'clock, I saw Flynn at Moor Lane.

Regan. Q. Did not you say that you did not know which of us had robbed you? A. I did not.

Flynn. You were very much the worse for liquor. Witness. I was not—if I had known that you were standing by when I gave Regan in charge, I should have given you in charge also.

GEORGE ROBINSON . I am a tailor, of No. 15, Fleet Street. On Saturday night, 22nd Aug., shortly after 12 o'clock, I was walking down Barbican, and saw the prisoners and prosecutor down Golden Lane; Regan had got hold of him, and they were both striking him—there were twenty or thirty people round—I saw Flynn and the prosecutor fall, if not three of them—a cry of "Police!" was the first thing that attracted my attention—Davis got up, and Flynn got hold of him again; a policeman came up, and Davis gave Regan in charge—I am sure the prisoners are the women—I did not see Flynn go away, but as soon as the officer came up, she was gone—I went to the station.

JOSEPH BARKER . (City policeman, 135). I was in Golden Lane, saw a mob, and saw Davis holding Regan—he gave her in charge for assaulting and robbing him—he said that there was another, but that she had gone—I saw Flynn standing there, but did not know she was the party; I knew her before—Davis did not see her, as he was engaged holding Regan—he gave me a description at the station, from which I took Flynn at half past 5 o'clock the following morning—I fetched Davis, and he identified her—three farthings were found on Regan, and a halfpenny on Flynn—I found Flynn turning out of Bridgwater Square—she had no dress on.

Flynn. He tore my frock so dreadfully that I could not put it on; he thought I was a prostitute, and offered me 6d.; I said, "Go up a little higher, and perhaps you can find the person you want;" he struck me on the eye, and gave me a black eye. Witness. She told me that she was in bed, and had just got up—she had her petticoats on—she said that the prosecutor had torn her gown, and she took it off—she did not show it to me—the prosecutor did not smell of drink; there was nothing to show that he was not perfectly sober.

(The prisoners' statements be ore the Magistrate were here read as follow: "Regan says, When the prosecutor struck Flynn, I asked him what he did it for, and he put his two hands round my neck, here is the mark, and called me a b—w—, and said he would choke me, because we would not go with him; he turned his pockets out himself in the station house, and I told the constable here to look round; it was a quarter past 12 o'clock when he stopped us in the street; I have nothing more to say.' Flynn says, 'On Saturday night he came up to me, and asked me where I was going; I said I was going home, and he said he had a sixpence, "Will you come with me?" I said I would not go with him, and he upped with his hand, and struck me in the eye; as soon as he struck me in the eye, I laid hold of him by his hair, and I asked the constable here to take me on Saturday night, and he said, "No, you are not the one we want," and he let me go; and on Sunday morning the constable took me, and I asked him what he wanted of me; and when he told me what it was, I came with him; this is all I have got to say."

Flynn's Defence. I was sent by my mother for a bundle of wood, and met the complainant; he offered me 6d. to go with him to a house; I said that he had better take his money to some one else—he took hold of my dress, and we fell, and when I recovered myself he said that he had been robbed of 14s. 6d., and this young woman by my side was the person who had got his money; the policeman told me to go home, and I did so, and next morning he met me, and took me to the station; I was not allowed to speak at Guildhall, and therefore thought I should not be allowed to call any witnesses here, but my mother is here.

MRS. FLYNN. I sent my daughter out on Saturday night for a bundle of

wood, and told her not to be long, is her father would be angry; she came back with her gown torn and a black eye.

COURT. to JOSEPH BARKER. Q. Did you observe signs of violence about the prosecutor? A. Yes, there were marks on his neck, and a bite or a scratch on his hands and on his arm—he turned up his shirt sleeves, and showed his arm at the station—I did not tell Flynn to go about her business—there was another constable there.


(Flynn was further charged with having been before convicted.)

WILLIAM ROBINS . (Policeman). I produce a certificate—(Read; "Clerkenwell Sessions, July, 1854; Ann Beltham, Convicted of stealing 2 lbs. 14 ozs. of bonnet wire; Confined six months")—Flynn is the person.

Flynn. It is false; he takes me for a different person; he did not know me; he asked the matron at Newgate which was Flynn, and she pointed me out; I never was in prison. Witness. I have no doubt of her, I knew her directly I saw her; the matron asked me who I wanted, and I said; "Flynn;" six or seven prisoners were turned out into the yard, and I recognised her among them.

GUILTY.— Confined One Year each.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-971
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

971. THOMAS HOLLAND (19) , Unlawfully assaulting Hannah Peak, with intent, etc.

MR. AUSTEN. conducted the Prosecution, and MR. RIBTON. the Defence.

GUILTY .— Confined One Month.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-972
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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972. HENRY WEBBE (43) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of William Henry Hammond, and stealing therein 8 pairs of trowsers and a quantity of cloth, value 44l.; his property; and 1 coat, value 30s.; the goods of Alexander Perriany Payne.—2nd COUNT., feloniously receiving the same.

MR. ORRIDGE. conducted the Prosecution, and stated that he should proceed on the second Count only.

ALEXANDER PERRIANY PAYNE . I am porter to Mr. Hammond, of No. 240, Oxford Street. I locked up the shop about 10 o'clock on 31st Aug.—I sleep in the house—I came down between 5 and 6 o'clock the following morning, and found it in great confusion—the shop door had been broken by a screw—I opened the front door, which the burglars had pulled to after them; it was merely closed—I had locked it the night before—the entry had been made through the area gate—they had forced open a lock which fastens the chain, and got in at the kitchen window.

ALFRED BAXTER . I am in Mr. Hammond's employ. I went to the shop on 1st Sept, and found the stock in confusion—I missed eight pairs of trowsers, two pieces of doe skin making twenty yards, and upwards of 100 yards of angola—they were worth about 50l.—I believe this (produced) to be part of the angola—we had 16 3/4 yards on the premises, and one piece the night before, with a damaged end like this—it has a brack, or white thread, on it, which is the mark of the cloth worker, and you will find by the invoice that the 3/8 are given in on account of the brack, and it is charged as 16 yards—the pattern and quality are also the same—this other piece is the property of my employer—these are torn out of what we lost.

CHARLES WEBB . (Police inspector, C). On Saturday, 5th Sept, about 8 o'clock in the evening I went to the prisoner's shop; it is a hair dresser's, at No. 33, Upper Park Place, Dorset Square—he was shaving a man—I asked him if he knew me—he said he did not I told him I was his namesake, and an inspector of police, and asked if he had any cloth in his house—he said, "No"—I asked if he had any trowsers—he said, "No"—I

asked if he had anything that did not belong to him—he said, "No"—I asked if he had any objection to my searching his apartments—he said, "No"—I was accompanied by sergeant Chowne, and other constables—I searched the back parlour and the shop, and in the shop found a box which was locked, and was used as a seat—I inquired for the key, and he told his wife to bring it—she brought it, and said, "You do not want to look in here, Sir"—I said, "Yes"—she said, "We are very much confined for room, and I am frequently obliged to put things here out of the way of the children"—I told her that if there was anything she did not wish me to see, it should be done as delicately as possible—the box was opened, and she took up the skirt of a dress, and threw over one corner of the box, took something rolled up in the skirt into the back parlour, and placed it on a comer of the bed—I followed her—she told me to have respect for a woman's feelings—I said that if there was anything she did not wish me to see in her presence she must retire—it was a coloured skirt—I shook it, and found it contained this remnant of cloth, which has been produced, this jacket made up, and some other articles, which I cannot say, for they afterwards became mixed with the other remnants—I know they were all found in the box, and so were these two strips of basket cheque, and these two strips of black ribbed cloth, two strips of angola, and other remnants, which are positively sworn to—I placed them on the table in the back parlour—Chowne brought some others in my presence, and they were placed on the table—I then asked Webbe how he came by them—he said that he bought them—I asked him where—he said, "At various shops"—his wife spoke to him—I could not hear what she said—he then said, "Two men came to my shop on Wednesday last; one had his hair cut, the other was shaved; they had a pint of beer and a drop of gin, and left these remnants behind them"—I took him to the station, and on the Sunday I went to Mr. Hammond's shop, and selected two pieces of ribbed angola, with other pieces which were left behind—I have been a cloth worker, but have been nineteen years a policeman—my impression is that this little piece of cloth which I found in Mr. Hammond's shop is a portion of this other—here is a very curious tear in it—I think if you were to tear 1, 000 pieces you could not tear it as this is torn—I also found two pieces of basket cheque in the box, corresponding with this remnant of basket cheque at Mr. Hammond's shop—they exactly match in width, but the length is shorter—I matched the selvage of this jacket which is sewed up—it corresponds with the cloth.

Cross-examined by MR. PHILLIPS. Q. How long were you engaged in the cloth trade? A. About ten years—I have been engaged in some thousands of police cases—5, 000 go through my hands every year as inspector—(The witness spread out the cloth on the floor of the bench, and fitted the pieces)—when the man who was being shaved went out the door was bolted, And we commenced searching—I said nothing to him while the man was being shaved—the prisoner did not show the slightest trepidation—his wife took the dress away in her lap with the other articles—when I asked the prisoner where he got the things, I put my hand on the remnants which were on the table—the other things were not remnants, they were dirty clothes.

ALFRED BAXTER . re-examined. This little piece of cloth is from my shop—I saw the policeman take it—it was torn off this other piece, and in my judgment it formed part of it—I have another piece of the same cloth here—there was about 14 yards taken away off this piece, which leaves 2 1/4; yards behind, and this little piece has been torn out of the 2 1/4; yards to compare

with the tear—this basket cheque was safe on the night before the robbery—it is enough for a pair of trowsers—it was made expressly for us, at a gentleman's request—no person has it—this jacket is made of the same sort of cheque—I missed some similar to it—it is made from the material to go down the sides of trowsers—you may find the same pattern cheque, but you will not find the same border in twenty pieces—I identified this piece as part of my stock.

JOHN CHOWNE . (Police sergeant, E 5). I was with the inspector—all that he has said is true, nothing has been left out—I found a number of things.

GUILTY . *† on the Second Count. (Sergeant Potter said that the prisoner was a constant associate of burglars, and that he had been constantly watched as a receiver of stolen goods.) Four Years Penal Servitude.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-973
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

973. LAZARUS GEORGE HOLDERNESS (61), was indicted for bigamy.

MR. METCALFE. conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM BRADLEY . (Policeman, B 158). I produce a copy of a certificate of marriage at St. Mary's, Lambeth, on 5th Aug., 1851, between Lazarus George Holderness and Mary Ann Delasalle—I received it from Phoebe Beard, his second wife—it is a correct copy—I also produce a certificate of a marriage at St. Luke's, Chelsea, between Lazarus George Holderness and Phoebe Beard, on 14th June, 1856—I have compared that, and find it to be a correct copy—I took the prisoner into custody on 12th Aug.—I told him that it was on a charge of bigamy—he said that he had been married before, but had been divorced, and he allowed his first wife a maintenance.

SARAH WILLIAMS . I am the wife of John Richard Williams, of No. 43, Commercial Road, Lambeth. Mary Ann Delasalle is my sister, and is the prisoner's wife—she is alive, and lives in Fann Street, in the City—I saw her a few days after she was married, and she showed me the certificate.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Did they live long together? A. Four years—he has left her once or twice, and come back to her—she is not particularly violent tempered—he allows her 10s. a week for the two children—there was no agreement drawn up for a separation, but there is one to allow the children 10s. a week—I have heard it read—I do not know that she is allowed more now—I believe she wanted him to sign a deed since he has been in custody, because we did not consider 10s. enough for a wife and two children, while he was living in splendour—I do not know whether he signed it—she is not the prosecutrix, I am—I know that he was living in great happiness—I interrupted the honeymoon.

PHCEBE BEARD . I married the prisoner on 4th June, 1856. I did not know that he was married before.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you continue to live with him after you knew it? A. Yes, and I shall go and live with him again—I have been living with him while he has been out on bail—his first wife is provided for, and he behaves very well to me—I heard of his being married three or four days after our marriage, and I did not run away from him—I had no fortune.

GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

OLD COURT.—Friday, September 18th, 1857.

PRESENT—Mr. Justice CROMPTON.; Mr. Baron WATSON.; and Mr. Ald. CUBITT.

Before Mr. Baron Watson and the Second Jury.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-974
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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974. WILLIAM SMITH (26) , Feloniously stabbing and wounding Richard Faulkner, with intent to do him some grievous bodily harm.

MR. CAARTEN. conducted the Prosecution. (The prosecutor did not appear.)

FREDERICK STILL . I am a seaman on board the Rainbow, an English vessel plying between Rotterdam and London. The prisoner was a passenger on board, and the deceased Richard Faulkner was a shipmate of his; they were both passengers from Rotterdam to London. On Saturday, 15th Aug., we were about forty miles at sea—on that day I saw the prisoner and deceased come out of the fore cabin, and go forward to the foremast and begin to fight—I saw them close in on one another, and strike—they had their coats off—the fight lasted a very little time, there were a very few blows exchanged—I saw a knife in the prisoner's hand; it was a common sheath knife, such as American sailors generally use; like a pig knife, rounded at the point—the English sailors use knives of a different description, clasped knives—when I saw him with the knife I called out—I was on the bridge of the boat, looking out; and after that I saw him stab Faullner three times in the back—I then turned away to call to the captain—Faulkner staggered, and I believe went below—the captain went to separate them, but they separated themselves—I saw Faulkner lying there two minutes afterwards, bleeding from the thigh, but I was not near enough to see the wound—the blood was coming down his trowsers—he had seven stabs altogether.

Prisoner. Q. Did you see Faulkner attack me in the first place? A. I saw you both begin to fight, I cannot say which struck first—I saw him have you by the hair of your head, and try to kick you on the nose—I was some distance off—I do not recollect hearing you say, "Let go."

COURT. Q. How long after holding him by this hair was the knife used? A. It was before that; he used the knife first.

GEORGE BENNETT . (Thames policeman, 29). I took the prisoner into Custody on 16th Aug.—I was called by the captain, and found him locked up in one of the side houses on board the Rainbow—I told him I took him into custody for stabbing a man—he said, "Yes, I believe I have; I hope Dick is not in a bad condition"—I asked what he had done with the knife—he said, "I don't know, but I believe I hove it overboard"—I observed a kind of cut in his right hand, it was very deep and it was bleeding then; I asked how that was done, or whether it was done with the grasp of the knife—he said, "Yes, I believe it was"—I then took him to the station.

JOHN CROFT . I am assistant surgeon on board the hospital ship Dreadnought. On 16th Aug. Faulkner was brought there—he was first examined by my substitute, as I was out—I saw him about 5 o'clock in the afternoon—he was pale, and was suffering from seven wounds, three on the back, two of them between the blade bone and the spinal column, and one a little lower down; two on the hip, and two below the heart—the two below the heart were not deeper than the cartilage of the ribs—the deepest wound was on the hip, but the longest were those over the heart—that on the hip was an inch and a half deep—those on the back varied from half an inch to an inch—none

of them were serious in themselves—I think he remained in the hospital ship about a fortnight—a sharp pointed instrument would cause such wounds—they were all stabs.

Prisoner's Defence. This occurred at dinner; we were all eating; I suppose we were all the worse for liquor; I was, as well as the prosecutor, very drunk; I made some remark over the table, and he took it up, and said I was insulting the party—I said I was not, that I was speaking about myself, but I supposed I had been so long out of society that I did not know how to conduct myself when I got into it; he said it was not that, but I its insinuating at him, or some of the rest, particularly at him; I said I was not; he said if I did not shut up he would make me, and got up; I said I was as good a man as he was; he jumped over the table at me; I ran on deck, and he followed me; I had my sheath knife in my hand to cut my meat; he ran after me, and I fell against the scuttle of the fore cabin; he caught me by the hair, and dragged me five or six feet, hitting me all the time in the head and face; trying to free myself from him, and having the knife in my hand, I perhaps cut him in so many places, but not intentionally; I can say with a clear conscience that I never had any enmity against the man; we were on board a man of war together for a long time; this never would have occurred if we had not been in liquor; we were all good friends; this is the first time I was ever before a court of justice; I have been ten years on the water.

GUILTY . Of unlawfully Wounding.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury.— Confined Twelve Months.

NEW COURT.—Friday, September 18th, 1857.


Before Mr. Recorder and the Fifth Jury.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-975
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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975. RACHEL DOWNS (30) , Feloniously attempting to kill and murder Jane Downs.—2nd COUNT., describing her as Jane Campbell.

MR. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.

ANN GRADY . I am a widow, and live in Lower Symons Street, Chelsea. The prisoner had a room in my house—a man named George Campbell lived with her as her husband—they lived there nine or ten weeks—she had lived in the street for some years—she had a child, whom I had heard called Jane Campbell—Campbell had left the prisoner on the Wednesday before this happened on the Saturday night—he had left her very much in debt—I thought that had an effect on the prisoner—on the Saturday night, 29th Aug., between 8 and 9 o'clock, I heard a great screaming as I was going up stairs—I went into my own bed room, and saw the prisoner there, with the child in her lap, twisting a rope as hard as she could round it's neck—it was struggling to get out of her lap—I called out loudly, and called Mrs. Quin—she came up, and took the child—she had got out of her mother's lap, and was making her way down stairs as fast as she could—I had taken the rope off her neck—she was bleeding very much from the nose and mouth—the prisoner looked to me as if she had been drinking, but are got perfectly sober afterwards—when she got to the station, she seemed quite sober—after I had taken the rope off the child, the prisoner said, "I

meant to do it, and do for myself afterwards"—this is the rope—the other end was tied to the bed post—here is the noose which was round the child's neck.

Prisoner. I was drinking with her at 12 o'clock; she paid for a quarters of gin. Witness. No such thing; I paid for a penny loaf and some beer—that was all you had of me at 12 o'clock in the day—I did not pay for another quartern of gin; I was not with you.

MART QUIN . I am sister of the last witness. We had been out together, and came home together—I was standing in the archway close to the private door, and heard a screaming—the last witness called me; I went up, and saw the rope round Jane Campbell's neck—the prisoner was lying on the bed, and Jane Campbell was in her lap—Mrs. Grady had got her own child, and she gave that to me, and I saw her take the rope from Jane Campbell's neck—I did not notice where the other end of the rope was.

Prisoner. Q. Why did not you come the first day before the Magistrate? A. I did not want to have anything to do with it—I was obliged to come, or I would not have been here to day; I would rather be at my work.

COURT. Q. What day was this? A. The 29th Aug., between 8 and 9 o'clock at night; it was not very dark—I saw the blood running from her nose.

JAMES SMITH . (Policeman, B 200). On Saturday night, 29th Aug. I heard a cry of "Police!" about half past 8 o'clock—I saw the prisoner in the street, and took her in custody—I said that it was for trying to make away with her child—she said, "I did it, I did it"—I saw the child before I saw the prisoner; it was bleeding from the nose and face—I took it to the workhouse—the prisoner was sober.

COURT. Q. Was there any mark on the child's neck? A. Yes, the mark of a cord—I should think it was such a mark as would be produced by this cord.

WILLIAM EDWIN FIRMAN . (Police inspector). About half past 8 o'clock on that Saturday night the prisoner was brought to the station, and the child, who was bleeding from the nose; there was a great quantity of blood on her pinafore and on the front of her neck—I found a mark round her neck such as would be produced by a cord like this—I went to the room where this had happened, and found the door locked; I forced it open, and found this rope—it was not tied, it was over the top of the bed post, and the noose hung down, so that it could be drawn up—I told the prisoner what she was charged with; she said, "I could not do it to myself, and leave the child behind me."

COURT. to ANN GRADY. Q. How long had the prisoner lived in your house? A. Nine or ten weeks—she appeared kind to the child, and kept her always very clean.

GUILTY .—Recommended to mercy by the Jury.— Confined Twelve Months.

THIRD COURT.—Friday, September 18th, 1857.


Before Michael Prendergast, Esq., Q. C., and the Seventh Jury.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-976
VerdictMiscellaneous > no agreement

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976. JOHN GEER , Unlawfully assaulting and wounding Moyadeen, upon the high seas.

MR. RIBTON. appeared for the Prosecution, and

MR. SLEIGH. for the Defence. (No result having been arrived at in this case, in consequence of the Jury being unable to agree, after consulting for sixteen hours, and being discharged without giving any verdict, the indictment will be tried at the next Session.)

Second Jury.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-977
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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977. GEORGE OLIVER , Unlawfully wounding Meer Ali upon his head, on the high seas.

MR. RIBTON. conducted the Prosecution.

MEER ALI . (Through an interpreter). I was a seaman on board the ship Dominion—I sailed in her from Bombay—the prisoner was second mate—when we were weighing anchor at St. Helena's, four or five other seamen were engaged near me, and the rest were dispersed over the ship—those near me were Babor Khan, and Goolab, Kooda Bukhish, and Moyadeen—one of my fingers was hurt, and therefore I was pulling at the chain with one hand only, and the prisoner took a chain hook from the hands of Kooda Bukhish and struck me with it here (on the head)—here is the blood that came out (Exhibiting some pieces of rag)—the hook is of iron, and about as thick as my finger—it is a hook of the chain cable—it was a violent blow with the hook itself—I fell down, and he gave me a blow, which loosened My teeth, but that was on another day.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. Where did you ship? A. From Bombay—I have served at sea altogether for six years—I am nineteen years old—when weighing anchor all the persons on board the ship assisted, besides the ordinary crew—the Europeans did not help—they were not present; they were at the wheel—this happened on a Saturday, at 7 o'clock in the morning—there was no difficulty in weighing the anchor on this occasion—it was not foul, nor did it catch hold of something in getting it up—it did hook the anchor of another ship with forty-five fathoms cable—that does not remind me that all hands, Europeans and passengers included, were hauling away at the cable—they were in their beds; and one European, a sailmaker, who was at work, was asleep at the wheel while he was pulling; he was so drowsy—the ship was then getting under weigh, being about to go to sea—there were none of the officers of the ship on deck besides the second mate—my finger was bad, through the chief mate, Geer, hitting me with a marlin spike before that—at the time the defendant struck me I told him my finger was bad, and it was visible—it was swollen up, and bad a bandage, and I told him as well—we began to haul up the anchor at 6 o'clock in the morning—I am quite sure it was not 6 o'clock at night—it was not 4 o'clock in the morning that they got it up—it was raining a little, but it was not dark—there was plenty of my blood on the deck—I put this handkerchief into my box, and locked it up—I had not had it in use before—I took it out that very day—it is not a handkerchief—it is a piece of old torn-up cloth—I did not cut my finger, or any other part, in the course of the voyage—my finger was hurt ten days before weighing anchor.

MR. RIBTON. Q. Did the prisoner know that your hand had been struck with a spike? A. Yes—it was so bad the next morning that I was unable to use my hand; there was such a terrific pain in it, and it was full of matter.

GOOLAB. I was a seaman on board the Dominion—the prisoner was second mate—on the morning we were about to start from St. Helena we were weighing anchor; and while the prosecutor was pulling, the defendant came up, took a chain hook from Kooda Bukhish's hand, struck him on the head with it; the blood oozed out, and he fell down.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. What time of the day was the anchor weighed? A. After breakfast—it was not 10 o'clock—it was half past 9, or a quarter to 10—we do not go by bells; it is irregular—we struck the bell if we liked, but if we were busy we did not—we breakfast at 8 o'clock—I was pulling at the anchor—we had a difficulty in getting it up—there was something which we waited a little time for—we hooked a spare anchor and cable—the others were not helping; they were drunk, and were dispersed about—I saw no white men on deck—they had all been drinking that night—the white crew which were on the poop were busily engaged in sewing the sails, while the rest were lifting up the chain—if I had been on the poop I could have seen forward as far as the windlass, but they were not standing; they were seated, and could not be seen, because there was a hencoop in the middle—I could see the whole length of the ship if I stood up—I and Abdoolah were at the windlass, which is worked with caps and bars, pulling in the cable—the windlass is just before the mainmast—my country is Surat.

ABDOOLAH. I was on board the Dominion with Meer Ali and the prisoner—I cannot tell the day, but I recollect our weighing anchor on leaving St. Helena—all the crew were on deck—we were all at work—I and Meer Ali were at work, and the prisoner took a chain hook from another man and struck Meer Ali on the head, and he has got the mark yet—I saw the blood—he fell down—he got giddy, and some of them told him to go and wash it—it was near 10 o'clock in the morning.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Had they had their breakfast? A. Yes—it was an hour or an hour and a half after breakfast—the white men were sewing the sails near the poop—they were not helping to get up the anchor at all—the prisoner got the chain hook from Kooda Bnkhish—I cannot say where Gale, the apprentice, was when the anchor was being pulled up—I do not keep such a memory—none of the white people were helping.

MOYADEEN. I was a seaman on board the Dominion—I recollect our weighing anchor on the morning we were leaving St. Helena—I was assisting—I saw Meer Ali and the prisoner—the prisoner struck Meer Ali on the head with the chain hook, which he got from the hands of Kooda Bukhish—I saw plenty of blood—all his clothes were wet—he fell down, and then got up and put some medicine on it—it was daytime, nearly 9 o'clock, it might be, but I cannot tell.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Was the blow with the chain hook before or after breakfast? A. Before breakfast—I cannot say how long before, to an hour—we sometimes breakfast at 8 o'clock, sometimes at 9, and sometimes at 10—I cannot say what time we breakfasted that morning—we cannot read or write, and we did not keep regular times—it was not at 6 o'clock in the morning, and it was not after 10—the Englishmen were on the forecastle—I tell you that on my oath—I did not take notice of what they were doing, but they were sewing sails on the forecastle, near the poop—I cannot tell where Gale was—I do not work along with them—some of the white men had to do with getting up the anchor on the other side and front—they were heaving, but there were no white men near the chain.

MR. RIBTON. Q. Are they in the habit of breakfasting at any regular hour? A. No—sometimes three or four Lascars have their breakfast together, according to circumstances—I had my breakfast before I saw the blow—if we have any food remaining from over night, we eat it next morning at 6 o'clock—I do not know whether the other men had their breakfast

before the blow was struck, but I had mine at 6 o'clock—I am quite certain that this was in the morning.

BABOR KHAN . I was on board the Dominion. On the morning we were weighing anchor at St. Helena I was assisting, and Meer Ali also—I saw the prisoner there; he took a chain hook from the hands of Abdoolah and struck Meer Ali on the head—the blood fell, and then the man fell—I was about eight feet from him—it was near 10 o'clock.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did all the men breakfast together that morning? A. Two or three men together—I did not breakfast with Meer Ali, but I had my breakfast near him—I did not sit down at the same time as he did—the white men were sewing the sails on the poop—they were not at the windlass, but they came forward—I did not see Gale—I do not know him (Gale was here brought into Court)—I did not see that boy—I was busy and did not pay attention—the chief mate was not on deck superintending the getting in of the cable; it was not his watch, and he went for some business into the cabin.

MR. RIBTON. Q. Was it the prisoner's watch? A. Yes—it was his duty to be there while we were weighing anchor.

KOODA BUKHISH . I was on board the Dominion on the morning we were weighing anchor, at St. Helena—I was helping, pulling the chain—Meer Ali was assisting, and I was near him—his finger was hurt, and he did not work—the "prisoner took a chain hook from my hand and struck him on the head with it—he laid hold of his head, and moved off—I saw plenty of blood—he sat down like this in consequence of the wound—it was from 8 o'clock till 9 or 10.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. When he was struck, did not he walk away some distance with his hand to his head? A. No—(A gentleman in Court stated that the meaning of the witness was, that he went down of his own accord, and not from the force of the blow, and that all the other witnesses had said the same. The interpreter stated, that the meaning was, went down by the force of the blow, and that one of the witnesses tied the term, "swooned")—some of the Europeans were on deck, assisting at the windlass.

Witnesses for the Defence.

CHARLES GALE . I am an apprentice on board the Dominion. After leaving St. Helena, we got under weigh about 4 o'clock in the morning—I law no blow struck—if there had been any I must have Seen it—we got the entangled anchor at 3 o'clock, and weighed anchor at 4 o'clock.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. How long have you known him? A. Eleven months—I was forward, just by the windlass—Meer Ali was with me—I did not see Abdoolah, or Moyadeen, or Kooda Bukhish (Kooda Bukhish was here brought forward)—I know that man, he was on the main deck, running backwards and forwards with the chain—that man (Goolab) was not there, nor was this man (Babor Khan); the serang was not there, he was on the forecastle—all the rest were at the windlass—these other men were all on the poop near me, but I do not know their names—there was the sepoy, and a man named Cockrouch—I only saw one of the five men you have mentioned, and that was Kooda Bukhish—he was on the main deck, not on the forecastle—I was at the windlass one minute, and away from it another—the prisoner was attending to the windlass, keeping the chain from getting foul—some of the men were hauling the chain along, and others were on the forecastle, heaving the anchor up—only one was pulling the chain up—the others were turning the windlass; this was 10 o'clock at night—we were getting the anchor in—the first anchor was get

up at 12 o'clock, and then we had another anchor foul of us, and then we got the other anchor in—the same men were assisting in getting the chain in—Kooda Bukhish was there after 12 o'clock—the watch lasts four hours, but all hands were on deck that night—the second anchor was up about 4 o'clock in the morning—I swear that that was the time we left St. Helena—I believe everything is put down in the log—I swear the vessel was sailing and under weigh at 4 o'clock, there is no doubt at all about it—Abdoolah, Moyadeen, and Babor Khan were all on the forecastle at 4 o'clock, and Kooda Bukhish and Meer Ali were on the main deck—I am going to sail again in the same vessel—I do not know whether I shall have the same mate, because they generally leave ships—he has not left, he is on board now—I shall be under the same captain—we had stayed at St. Helena two days—we did not put back again—we weighed anchor only on this one occasion—it was dark—the captain was on the forecastle with the first mate and the men I have named—the prisoner was on the forecastle—the sailmaker was at the wheel—there was no mending of sails going on that day, or at all at St. Helena; because we had to paint the ship—sail mending is always going on—the sailmaker and the two apprentices were painting it for the two days we were there, and there was no stitching of sails at all—I did not see a chain hook in the prisoner's hands that night—I saw Kooda Bukhish with a chain hook.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Were any of the Europeans drunk? A. Yes, the carpenter was—the other portion of the crew assisted in getting in the windlass—I cannot say whether the prosecutor had a bad finger—I do not remember it being hurt with a marlinspike, or whether he got any hurt while this was going on—if he had been hit with a chain hook, I should have seen it—I did not see any scuffling—he might have hurt his head without my seeing it, but it was not hurt that night—I cannot account for how he got the bump on his head.

JOHN GEER . I am chief mate of this vessel. During the voyage from Bombay to London, the defendant's character was generally kind—I never heard any complaints—I remember weighing anchor at St. Helena—before we had got clear of the first anchor, and ready to sail, it was 4 o'clock in the morning, and we were arranging the chains afterwards till eight o'clock, and washing the deck—arranging the chains is not any portion of weighing the anchor—the anchor is weighed when we have got it under the bows of the ship, and set sail—we sometimes arrange the chains without touching the anchor—it has nothing to do with enabling the ship to sail—I keep the log—this is my writing (produced.)

COURT. Q. Are the Lascars employed in arranging the chain, or in weighing anchor? A. Some are employed in weighing anchor, and two or three with the chain—the raising of the anchor is by the windlass being pulled round, and sometimes, if there are men enough on board the ship, the chain is arranged at the same time—while some are turning the windlass, others are arranging the chains.

Cross-examined. Q. How long have you known him? A. Six months—he is a man of general kindness—I was tried in the last case, and he gave me a character—he is a man of general kindness—we set sail at 6 o'clock in the evening, but we made sail the evening before—we got under weigh about 12 o'clock in the night—we got up one anchor then, and at 4 o'clock we got up the second anchor, but when the first anchor came in the second was off the ground, and we were under weigh—the ship was under weigh at 12 o'clock at night—the ship was moving at 12 o'clock—a

ship is under weigh as soon as the anchor is off the ground, and she begins to move—by making sail, I mean setting the sails—the ship had gone about twelve miles by 4 o'clock—I saw the prisoner—I was first at one part of the ship, and then at another—I was up all night, and went below at 4 o'clock, and went to sleep, and came up again at 8, and relieved the prisoner, who was on the quarter deck, and he went below—they had then arranged the chains, and had just finished washing the decks—I did not notice particularly who was there then—I could not see a blow struck if I was asleep—Meer Ali told me two or three days afterwards that he had received a violent blow on the head—he was washing his head, and I saw the out—it was not deep, and it was not bleeding then—it was quite dirty, and full of matter—he said he had been struck on the head by a chain hook.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. You were on deck during the time the anchor was was being weighed; if any such blow had been struck by the second mate, must you have seen it? A. Yes—during the whole of that night I heard so complaint that such a blow had been struck—he told me that it had occurred on the night we left St. Helena—I was on deck on duty from 8 to 12 o'clock—I was asleep after 4 o'clock—no blow was struck that morning, to my knowledge, by anybody—I did not see the second mate on the deck from 8 till 12 o'clock—he did not even stop up for his breakfast, having been up all night, he went to sleep.

WILLIAM JOHN GREEN . I have been four years captain of the Dominion. The defendant's character for humanity and kindness has been very good since he sailed with me—I remember weighing anchor at St. Helena—I was on deck all night—we got the first up about 9 or 10 o'clock at night, and we hooked another anchor about 11 in the morning—during the time I was on deck I saw the second mate several times, but did not see him inflict a blow on anybody—no complaint was made by the prosecutor about any violence being done to him, but some few days afterwards he came to me and said that he had a mark on his head, received from the chain, but he did not say how it occurred, or mention the defendant as having struck him—none of the men were sitting on the poop stitching sails at the time the anchor was being got up—it was dark.

Cross-examined. Q. He complained of receiving a blow on the head from the chain? A. He said it was an accident—it was only a bruise—it was two or three days after we got from St. Helena—there was matter about the bruise—a man could very easily get a blow on the head from the chain—he did not complain to anybody—he said that he got a blow in getting the chain in on the morning when we were weighing anchor—I suppose he said it was an accident—I know his language sufficiently for that—it was calm, and the ship moved but little between 9 and 10 o'clock, when the first anchor was up—we got the second anchor up between 3 and 4 o'clock in the morning—the ship had then moved four or five miles—the sails were all set, and the ship under weigh, before I went down, at 4 or half past 4 o'clock—there was no stitching of sails during the whole time we were at St. Helena.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Were the men doing anything to the ship while you were there? A. Yes, cleaning her outside and painting her—the prosecutor did not say how the wound was done, but he conveyed to my mind the impression that it was an accident—he did not impute it to anybody on board the ship to me—he complained to me to get it dressed—I am in the habit of dressing all their wounds—I had his head shaved, and dressed it every morning—I muster them all, and dress their sores every morning—it

was a festering wound—the skin was broken, and there was matter and blood about it, as it had been two or three days before he complained.

MYDDLETON. I am a sail maker on board the Dominion. I was present at the getting up of the anchor on leaving St. Helena—I went to bed after daylight, at 5 o'clock, during the time the anchor was being got up, I did not see the prisoner strike the prosecutor—the weighing anchor was complete before I went to bed.

Cross-examined. Q. Were there any sails mended or stitched while you were at St. Helena? A. Not at St. Helena—we did not begin to mend the sails till the day after the ship began to move—the carpenter's name is Edwards—he is not here—I have known the prisoner on the voyage from London and back—I am in the same vessel still.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. During the whole of the voyage was his character that of a kind and humane man? A. So far as I know, and have seen.

JOHN BROWN . I was there the night the anchor was being weighed at St. Helena—I did not go to bed till 5 o'clock in the morning, after the anchor was being weighed—I was on deck the whole time—I saw the second mate, and saw Meer Ali, but saw no blow struck—I got up about 9 o'clock in the morning to go to the wheel, and saw no violence committed by the second mate on the prosecutor after that—when I went from the wheel I went to sleep—the defendant is a good man to the men—none of the men were on the poop sewing sails when the anchor was getting up.

SAINT MONRO . I remember the anchor being weighed at St. Helena—I went to bed that morning about 5 o'clock, but I do not remember very well—I worked with the others in getting up the anchor—I did not see the second mate strike anybody—I got up about 4 o'clock that afternoon—they did not call the people all that day, they let us sleep—the defendant was as good a man during that voyage as any man in England—I have never seen him commit violence.

JOSEPH RIBEDLRI . I was there when the anchor was being weighed—I did not see the defendant strike Meer Ali.



Before Mr. Recorder.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-978
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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978. HENRY STEVENS (17) , Stealing 7 metal taps and two gauge frames, value 8l. 10s.; the goods of John Bowes and others.

WILLIAM PETERSON . I am an engineer, in the employ of Mr. John Bowes and others, at Plaistow, in Essex. On the morning of 27th Aug. I went into the engine house, and found the brass had been knocked off the boiler and the cylinder—some person had got in by taking away the iron bar, and breaking through the bricks—I had seen it all safe on the 25th—I had seen the prisoner on the 26th, near the engine house, walking backwards and forwards—he had no business there—I saw him again on the 27th, near the engine house; I took him, and found on him some broken pieces of brass in his pocket—I have compared them with the parts from which they had been taken, and I have no doubt they correspond.

JAMES GREY . (Policeman, K 265). The prisoner was given into my custody on 27th Aug.—I took possession of the brass from the last witness—I asked the prisoner what he had to say to the charge, and he made no answer.

Prisoner's Defence. I went to look for work; this brass was lying on the grass; a man told me to take it, and this man came out and took me.

GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.


Before Michael Prendergast, Esq., Q. C.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-979
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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979. JAMES MORGAN (49) , Stealing 1 carpet, value 17s.; the goods of Joseph David Binks: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-980
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

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980. JOHN ROBINSON (22) , Stealing, at Deptford, 1 barrow, value 3l.; the goods of Robert Edis Smith. MR. HORRY., for the Prosecution, having addressed the Jury, THE COURT. was of opinion that the evidence if given, would not amount to a felony, and therefore directed a verdict of


(The prisoner was again indicted for a like offence, upon which no evidence was offered.)


14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-981
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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981. FRANCES FINCH (20) , Stealing 1 sovereign; the moneys of Thomas Barrett, her master.

MR. HORRY. conducted the Prosecution.

MARIA BARRETT . I am the wife of Thomas Barrett, of No. 6, Mornington Road, New Cross. He is station master at the railway—the prisoner was with me nearly three months—I paid her 1s. a week just to come in the morning, and clean some steps—I only required her in the morning—on 18th Aug., 1856, I gave her a sovereign and a plate to go for a pound of butter, and told her to make haste; she had not to go more than three minutes' walk—I did not see her again till 18th or 19th Aug. this year, when she was in custody—I did not know where she lived, or whether she had a mother.

Prisoner. I was making all the haste I could, and dropped the sovereign; some man picked it up, and ran away with it; I was all in a tremble, and frightened to come back.

ALFRED JOHN CROUCH . (Policeman, R 92). On 19th Aug., from information I received, I went to No. 56, River Street, Deptford, and found the prisoner in the top garret, working with a young man who she was living with—I told her the charge, and she turned to the young man, and said, You told me this was paid, or I should never have come back again"—he made no answer—going to the station, she said that she bad been in the north of England, and should never have come back, but she thought the sovereign was paid—she said nothing about losing it.

Prisoner. I told you I should never come back till I had saved, a few shillings to give to Mrs. Barrett. Witness. No.

GUILTY .*— Confined Six Months.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-982
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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982. STEPHEN GREENWOOD (22) , Unlawfully breaking into the dwelling house of Frederick Burton, at Lewisham, with intent to commit a burglary.

RICHARD TANKER . (Policeman, R 273). On 25th Aug. I was at Lewisham, just above the turnpike, and heard a noise about 150 yards from the railway station like the pulling a door to—I turned my light on, and saw the prisoner and another man not in custody walk from a shutter, which fell the minute they walked from, it—I ran towards them, and they ran away

as far as a public house—I turned back, sprang my rattle, and brought two other constables, and gave them a description of the men and which way they had gone—one of them ran down Hanover Street, which leads over the bridge, to New Cross—in three or four minutes afterwards another constable brought the prisoner to me—I asked him where he had come from, and what he had been doing at the shop; he said, "Nothing," and that he had just come from Bromley—I took him to the shop where the shutter fell, and found it on the ground; it had been prised with some instrument—it was a watch maker's and jeweller's shop—I went back with the officer who took him to the spot where he was taken, and found this instrument (produced)—I found on him, at the station, a handful of lucifer matches—I have no doubt of the prisoner being the man; I knew his features before, but not his name; and as he ran to and fro, I had a good opportunity of seeing him by the lamp at the toll gate—he gave his address accurately, but I could not find him by that name; he goes by the name of Brown—I went with Macknell, and picked up this old key close to where the prisoner was apprehended; it has been made into the shape of a chisel—there was a mark on the shutter where it fitted, and another mark on the bottom of the shutter where an instrument two inches wide had been used.

JOHN MACKCROFT . (Policeman). I heard an alarm given by Tanner; I ran in the direction he told me, and took the prisoner at the corner of Hanover Street—I afterwards went to that place, and found this key—I am sure he had passed that spot.

FREDERICK BURTON . I did not hoar any noise, but this is the second time I have had my shutter taken down; I have a guard under it—I saw dirt from the collar to the tail of the prisoner's coat, as if he had been lying down.

Prisoner. You stated at the police court that there were no marks on the shutter. Witness. No, I did not.

GUILTY .**— Confined Nine Months.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-983
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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983. GEORGE PERRY(20) was indicted for unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined One Year.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-984
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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984. ELIZABETH NORRIS(48) , Stealing 1 counterpane, value 15s.; the goods of Elizabeth Nairne.

ELIZABETH NAIRNE . I live at Woolwich. On a Thursday evening, about the middle of Feb., I put a counterpane into a tub, put it on a copper, and set it at the foot of the stairs, and the next morning it was missed—the prisoner lived at the next house to me—I afterwards received the ticket of the counterpane from Mr. Miller—the prisoner had gone away before I received the ticket.

ANN MILLER . The prisoner had charge of some houses for my husband, in Ann Street, Woolwich. In Feb. last she came, and said, "Pitman has gone"—I said, "Has he left his rent?"—she said, "No" and said, "He has left the ticket of his watch for his rent," and handed me this duplicate wrapped in paper—I took it, and put it into the iron safe—I did not doubt but it was the ticket of the watch.

ANN MILLER, JUN . I am the daughter of the last witness. On 28th May the prisoner came to my mother, and gave her this ticket; she said, "Pitman has left, and left the ticket of his watch"—she came again on 1st June, and gave me 2s. off Pitman's rent, and asked me for the ticket—I said that my mother was not at home, and if she was she would not give her the ticket without the other 1s. 2d.—Pitman owed 3s. 2d.

CHARLES HENDERSON MILLER . On Thursday, 9th July, I went to my

safe, and found the duplicate of the counterpane—I took it to the station, marked it, and gave it to Mrs. Nairne.

JAMES SHARPE . I am a pawnbroker. This counterpane was pawned with me; I gave this duplicate—it was a person younger than the prisoner—I do not recollect having seen the prisoner, before the hearing before the Magistrate.

COURT. to ANN MILLER. Q. What time did the prisoner undertake the stewardship of your houses? A. I think about March, but at the time the counterpane was stolen, she resided next door to the prosecutrix.

ELIZABETH NAIRNE . re-examined. I am sure the prisoner lived next door to me at the time it was stolen—I did not say anything to her about the loss of it; it was mentioned amongst the neighbours.

Prisoner's Defence. It was in an open place, and many people had access to it; what I gave was the ticket of the watch; Mr. Miller had this duplicate in his possession two months before he said anything about it; it is all spite against me.

COURT. to CHARLES HENDERSON MILLER. Q. What else was in the iron safe A. Only one or two memorandums—my wife always keeps the key of it—on 9th July I went to the safe, and found this duplicate.


Before Mr. Recorder.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-985
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

985. CHARLES HEATHER (22) , Stealing two shirts and other articles, value 1l. 6s. 8d.; the goods of Joseph Haslett, his master: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-986
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence; Not Guilty > no evidence

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986. WILLIAM HANNANT (27) and FREDERICK WOODWARD (45) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of Peter Barlow, and stealing 24 forks and other goods, value 40l.; his property.—2nd COUNT., charging Woodward with feloniously receiving the same.

WOODWARD PLEADED GUILTY. to the Second Count , and received a good character.— Confined Twelve Months.

MR. DOYLE. offered no evidence against


Before Mr. Justice Crompton.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-987
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence; Not Guilty > unknown

Related Material

987. THOMAS PERRY (29), EDWARD WHIFFEN , and JOHN GRIFFITHS(23), were indicted for feloniously killing and slaying Thomas Franklin.

MESSRS. BODKIN. and POLAND. conducted the Prosecution.

(From MR. BODKIN'S. opening, it appeared that Perry and Whiffen were the engine driver and stoker of the train which caused the accident at Lewisham, and that Griffiths was the signal man stationed at Blackheath; MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE., with MR. METCALFE., for Griffiths, submitted, that as the act of the prisoners could not, under these circumstances, be a joint act, the prosecution must elect against which prisoner to proceed; MR. BODKIN. contended, that the proper time for such election would be at the close of the case. MR. JUSTICE CROMPTON. could not see how any joint act could be made out; there must be a culpable negligence in the discharge of a duty imposed upon them; but, as the duties of the parties appeared to be totally different, it seemed difficult to establish joint negligence; the negligence of one could hardly be imputed to the others. He was therefore of opinion, that (as there was another indictment against Griffiths separately) it would be better to shape the evidence to the act of each; but it was a matter for the discretion of the prosecution.

MR. BODKIN., upon the intimation of the opinion of the Court, elected to proceed against Perry and Whiffen, and offered no evidence against Griffiths on this indictment.)


WILLIAM WILEY . I am a guard on the North Kent Railway. I have been on the line ten years next Nov., and have been a guard seven years—on Sunday, 28th June, I was the head guard of a train which left Strood at 9.15 at night—a person of the name of Hughes was the underguard—the train consisted of fourteen carriages—it was due at Blackheath at 10.17; we arrived there at 10.32—that was a station at which we ought to stop with that train; we took in and let out passengers there—the train was nearly full—we remained at Blackheath about three or four minutes, I could not say which it was—my mate started the train from there, by having the signal from me—I got the signal to start it, from Mr. Chapman, the station master; I gave the signal to Hughes, and he would give it to the driver—I occupied the tail end of the train, and Hughes the former part—the next station from Blackheath up to London is Lewisham—that was not a station that this train ought to have stopped at—after getting away from the station at Blackheath, a little way before coming to the first bridge, I saw the distance signal, the red light—that was the signal at Lewisham; when I observed that, my duty was to apply the break and to stop the train—I applied the break slightly on this occasion, and the steam was turned off, and the train ran up to the distance signal—we pulled up very nearly dead; I do not think we did quite stop dead at the distance signal, we did at the station signal—the end of the train had got ninety yards beyond the distance signal—the station signal was at red also, that is danger; a good red light is the danger signal—we did not draw the train up to the platform—when the train was stopped, I got out of my break where I sat; I was informed that we were waiting for the "All clear" signal—when we had stopped there six or seven minutes, I heard the whistle of the engine belonging to the Beckenham train—I did not see the Beckenham train pass; it would come on the main line before us, and run up the same line that we were to run up—after I heard the engine whistle I came close up to my break, and stood on the "six foot," thinking it was our engine whistle, and that we should start, as we had staid there five or six minutes—the "six foot" is the space between the up and down rails—I expected to go on, but we did not—when I found that we did not go on, after standing at the break for a minute or two, I went back past the distance signal 140 or 150 yards—I should say we had then been there seven or eight minutes, or more; I cannot say now; I did not notice the time—I went down the line about 140 or 150 yards past the distance signal—I took a red lamp with me—when I saw the train coming I ran towards it, and whistled and waved the lamp—the light was in my hand before I saw the train coming; I had it all the time; it was a hand lamp of my own—I did not take the tail lamp off; that stopped on the train—there was one red tail lamp to my train—after I whistled and waved my hand the other train passed me—when it came opposite to me, I shouted out as loud as I could halloo for them to stop it—when it went past me I should say it was going at the rate of twenty miles an hour—after it had passed me I heard a collision—I then went towards my train, but before I got to it I thought of the other train, and I went up towards the Blackheath station, to stop everything up—I saw the station master, and made a communication, to stop all the trains coming up—I did not notice the distance signal as I went down the line from Lewisham towards Blackhealth;

when I came back from Blackheath, I noticed it then; it was a red light—I went back, and rendered assistance at Lewisham.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. (with MR. ROBINSON.). Q. This train that you were driving came from Strood? A. Yes, from Blackheath to New Cross it would be an express train—we should not stop at Lewisham—there were fourteen carriages in my train—it was a very crowded train—we were about fourteen or fifteen minutes late at Blackheath—we were not as much as thirty-two minutes late there—it was due there at 10.17 and arrived at 10.32—that was just about the time we ought to have been at London Bridge—it was due there at 10.45—we arrived at Blackheath at 10.32, and we ought to have been there at 10.17—I do not know why my train did not go on further, that has nothing to do with me, the station master has got the control of the train when I am stopped at a station—we were not as much as 200 yards on the Blackheath side of the Lewisham platform—I should say we were not more than 100 yards—I am speaking of the tail end of the train—the engine was within five or six yards, or more than that, it might be—the tail end, by my calculation, was over ninety yards within the distance signal—I cannot say how long I have been on that particular line, because I have been changed—I have been on the main road, and on several of the branches—I have been on that road sufficiently to know it well—I have served five or six yean on it—from the Blackheath station, going to Lewisham, there it a decline, right down to the distance signal, I believe; and from the distance signal to the Lewisham station there is a very slight ascent—the train that came in on ours and caused the accident, was a very heavy train—I believe it was the weight of eighteen carriages, though it only consisted of fifteen—there were some composite carriages—I should say we waited, altogether, seventeen of eighteen minutes at Lewisham, from the time we drew up to the time of tile collision—if everything had been clear and right on the line, we ought not to have stopped at Lewisham that night—I should say that the Lewisham junction, where the Beckenham train would pass, is about 140 or 160 yards from the Lewisham station, but I do not know for certain; it is a good deal over 100 yards—the ordinary trains are allowed three minutes from Blackheath to Lewisham, and to put down and take up passengers.

Q. In the ordinary course of things your train was causing an obstruction to the up line, was it not? A. They do not call it an obstruction, only waiting for the "All clear" signal; it may be an obstruction, but we do not work it as such—I know the Company's seventh rule, and also the third rule, under the heading of fog signals—I did not act upon the seventh rule, it was not my business to do so then—no fog signals were shown—we started from Strood at a quarter past 9 o'clock, and were fifteen minutes late at Blackheath—I was aware the 9.30 train would follow us, and that its time was up—I was not talking to a gentleman when this accident happened—I do not know Mr. Heath—I do not know whether any of the passengers were examined on the inquiry in the court below—I do no know that a gentleman of the name of Wilcox was examined—I have heard say so—I do not know whether Mr. Shaw or Mr. Spratt was examined—I did not hear them examined—I know that certain passengers were examined—I am prepared to swear that I was not talking to any passenger as the 9.30 train came up—there is a person of the name of Hughes connected with my train—I was not talking to a passenger when I heard the sound of the approaching train, nor did I call out "Hughes, Hughes!" and then run back as fast as I could—the time I called out for Hughes was when I heard

the Beckenham train start—that was seven or eight minutes before the other train came up—I did not run back just at the time I called out, "Hugher;" it might be about a minute or so—I went back to where I started from—I did not hear any train, and did not know any train was coming—I did not know the train had started from Blackheath—our rules are not to start, and I did not know she was coming—we were waiting for the "all clear" signals at Blackheath, the same as we were at Lewisham, and at the Dockyard, and Charlton—we had been detained five minutes at each station—we were waiting for orders to go on at each, the same as at Lewisham.

WILLIAM CURTIS EDMONDS . I am in the engineer's office of the South Eastern Railway. I have measured the distances in question on this line—from the London end of the platform at the Blackheath station to the first bridge is 545 yards, that is the Love Lane bridge—the width of the bridge is 8 yards—from that bridge to the bridge just before you come to the Lewisham station it is 370 yards—the width of that bridge is 5 yards, and from that bridge to the distance signal is 53 yards—from the distance signal to the station signal is 281 yards—from the station signal to the platform at Lewisham station on the up line is 20 yards—the total distance from the two platforms is 1, 285 yards—the 9.15 train had fourteen carriages, and an engine of the ordinary length—its total length was 103 yards—supposing that train to have stopped 13 yards short of the station signal, there would be 165 yards between the tail end of the train and the distance signal—the distance from the Blackheath end of the Lewisham platform to the junction of the Beckenham railway is 442 yards—the platform is 107 yards long—when I say that, supposing the train to have stopped 13 yards from the station signal, there would be 165 yards between the tail end of the train and the distance signal, I measure from the Blackheath end of the platform—the Beckenham line comes in at the junction, and runs upon the same line of rail—starting from Blackheath platform, there is a fall of 1 in 528 for about 187 yards—that is a moderate incline—from there, for about a distance of 484 yards, there is a fall of 1 in 132; and from there, through the Lewisham station, it falls 1 in 352.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Were you present at any experiments that were made by the Government inspector, Colonel Yolland? A. I was not—I really cannot say who was present—I believe the total distance between the two platforms is 1, 282 yards—it is 545 yards to the first bridge; that is eight yards wide—excluding that eight yards, the distance from the first bridge to the distance signal is 428 yards—I measured the 9.15 train, which contained fourteen carriages—I also measured the 9.30 train; it was 112 yards long, including the engine—my calculation was, of course, based upon what I was told, I have no actual knowledge of its accuracy, as I was not there.

MR. BODKIN. Q. You were not present when any experiments were made by the Government inspector? A. No—I made an experiment myself last Monday with a coal train—we had the same class engine as the 9.30 train—it was with a view of ascertaining within what space a train could be pulled up, and the train was of considerably more weight than the 9.30, and therefore would be harder to pull up—we had thirteen coal trucks, averaging thirteen tons each, three trucks of sleepers and rails, and two break vans—I do not know the weight of the 9.30 train, but I should say our train was three or four to one heavier—I consider the coal train to have been about 150 tons, the whole of it—I was told that the 9.30 train consisted of fifteen carriages filled with passengers—I assumed it

I to be filled with the average weight of passengers—I started with my experimental train from Blackheath station towards Lewisham—we had attained a speed, as near as I can guess, of about eighteen miles an hour before we endeavoured to stop it—I go, of course, from the driver's opinion of speed in preference to my own, he being more accustomed to it—my judgment coincided with his—we then shut off the steam, and endeavoured to stop the train—we were about seventy yards from the first bridge, the Love Lane bridge, when we shut off the steam, and applied the breaks, on the Lewisham side—when we stopped, the funnel of the engine was under the Lewisham bridge—the total distance from the point where we turned off the steam until the train stopped dead, was 300 yards—you can see the distance signal all the way from the Blackheath station—the state of the rails was not favourable for stopping at the time I made this experiment—it had been raining the greater part of the morning, and had stopped for about an hour or so before the experiment was made—that made the rails very greasy.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. When did Colonel Yolland make his experiments? A. I think about two months ago, but I will not be sure; it was before the former Session, when the trial was expected to come on—I believe Colonel Yolland is an inspector under the Board of Trade—I think he is, perhaps I know it—I did not measure the length of the train that I made the experiment with—the length has not so much to do with it as the weight—the trucks were loaded with coal; they were ordinary coal tracks—the number of passengers which eighteen carriages will hold depends on the sort of carriages they are—the 9.30 train was composed of various carriages; I cannot at present say what they were—I do not know the weight of the carriages—I did not give notice to the prisoners that I was going to perform an experiment; it was not my place to do so—I am not aware that any notice was given to their legal advisers—I do not know that any person was present on their part to see that the experiment was fairly conducted—I am not aware whether notice was given to the Government inspector that this was going to be done—he was not present, or any one from the Board of Trade that I know of.

Q. Do you not know that Colonel Yolland was unable to stop the train with which he experimented within 600 yards? A. I do not know the result of Colonel Yolland's experiments at all; it was not communicated to me before I made my experiment—I have never heard it—I am not aware whether he tried more than one experiment; he told me that he was going down to try one—my experiment was tried about a quarter to 4 o'clock in the afternoon—it did not occur to me that it was necessary to try it at the same hour as the accident occurred—the hour would have nothing to do with it—you may stop the train just in the same time in the night as in the day—I had two breaks—an engine driver and a fireman were with me—the line was all clear for us—there were men at the breaks also.

GEORGE HUGHES . I am a guard in the employment of the South Eastern Railway Company. I have been so two years and a half, on the North Kent line—I was the under guard of the train which left Strood at 9.15 on Sunday night, 28th June—I occupied the front part of the train—Wiley was at the tail—we stopped at Blackheath, and took up passengers there—I received the signal from Wiley to start the train—I gave that signal to Hill, the driver, and we started—I saw the distance signal, a red light, against us, about half way between the two bridges—that was after we had passed the Love Lane bridge—the train was then going about fifteen miles

an hour—when we saw the red light, we applied the breaks—the train ran beyond the distance signal—it went slowly on—the driver put on the breaks as well—the train was brought to a stand still before we got to the station signal—that signal also had the red light exhibited—we passed the distance signal at, I should say, about two miles an hour, very slowly—when the train was brought to a stand still, the engine was about three or four yards from the station signal—I stopped with the train, I should say, about eighteen minutes; I cannot say exactly the time—I supposed it was the Beckenham train that detained us at this place—the signals remained against us while we were stopping—while the train was stopping there, I saw the station master of the Lewisham station, Mr. Nelson—by his direction, I looked to see if we had room for any passengers in our train, but we were full—the train remained where it was, and after about eighteen minutes the collision took place—the breaks had not been continued on the train after it was brought to a stand still—they were taken off—I had taken off my break—I do not know whether the other breaks were taken off.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. According to the rules, ought the distance signal at night to have a red, green, and white light used? A. Yes—the red indicates danger, the green caution, and the white all right—this distance signal at Lewisham only has a red and a white fight—there is no green light.

MR. BODKIN. Q. Are there any other than red and white lights all the way down the North Kent line on the distance signals? A. It is the same all down the line—the station signals have a green light as well.

THOMAS HILL . I was an engine driver on the North Kent line, and was the driver of the 9.15 train on the night the accident occurred—our train stopped at Blackheath, and after taking in passengers we proceeded on towards Lewisham—I was on the engine—Hall, the fireman, was with me—the guard gave me the signal to start from Blackheath—we were fourteen or fifteen minutes late—we had been detained slightly at Charlton and Woolwich—our train would go through Lewisham to New Cross—we were stopped at Lewisham by the distance signal—it had a red light—I first saw that about the first bridge from Blackheath, the Love Lane bridge—I turned the steam off before I reached that bridge—I cannot say whether the breaks were applied by the guards; they would not require it—I whistled, but not to put the breaks on—I do not think they were put on—our train all but stopped at the distance signal, and we proceeded between the distance signal and the semaphore, or station signal—we went in past the distance signal, and were between the two—the station signal was at danger also, red—we were just moving as we passed the distance signal—we could have stopped within two or three yards—I did that for the protection of my train—it just went in beyond the distance signal, as we should be safe there from anything following us.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Was it between the two bridges that you first saw the distance signal? A. It was about the first bridge, as near as I can recollect—it might have been after we passed the first bridge, but I think it was about at the first bridge—I cannot say whether the engine had passed the bridge or not—the light was a faint red light—it was a signal that I took for a stop signal, knowing it—I have been on the North Kent line four or five years—I am well acquainted with the line, and the signals—it would not have been a doubtful signal to a person who did not know it; it would have been a stop signal—it was a faint red light—I should consider it would be a stop signal to a person who did not

know it—it certainly was not a direct signal—I do not recollect using the expression that it was a doubted signal—I have no recollection of it—it was an inferior signal—it was not a good signal; it was an inferior signal—it had been so for some time, I think—I have thought it my duty to complain of this signal to the station master—I complained, it might be, eight or ten days before the accident occurred—that complaint was made to Mr. Nelson, the station master—I do not know what answer be made—he went away saying something—since the accident I have seen men there repairing the signal—I have known it to be out of order several times prior to the accident—I have complained of it several times, not to Mr. Nelson—I complained of it to one of the porters—at times it is not a very good red light—on the night in question the moon was clouded—I cannot say that the signal lamp was out of order, but it did not come round to the fill light—it is very important that it should do to—when I said that it was out of order, I meant that it did not come direct round for the driver of the engine to see it—I do not know anything of the pipes that supplied the light—I cannot tell whether they were in order or not—I have seen other lights on the line as bad—a great deal depends on how the light is thrown over—having known the line long, I was very much on my guard—I know Perry right well—I cannot say whether he is a spare driver, he had been running with goods trains fors long time previous to this, but not on that line—he has been runing with goods trains on other lines a year, or a year and a half—I believe he was only a casual driver on the North Kent line—sometimes he was on for a day or two, or more, and sometimes he was off for a day or two.

MR. BODKIN. Q. How long have you been employed on this line? A. About four or five years—I have not made any complaint to the foreman about this light, accorbing to Rule 46—it has been reported—I believe I have seen men working at it before and since—I cannot say, passing so quickly, what they were doing, but they were working there—I have seen them doing the same before the accident as I have seen them doing since—I cannot tell correctly how long Perry has been employed on passenger trains on the North Kent line—he has been off and on some months—I have not paid any attention to the time—I have seen him on for two or three days at a time.

MR. SERJEANT PARRT. Q. Who is the foreman indicated by the 46th Rule? A. Mr. Reid, the locomotive foreman—he is stationed at the Bricklayers' Arms—I do not know whether he is here—I spoke once to Mr. Nelson on the subject of this signal, and once to his porter—I have not spoken to any one else—if a complaint is made to the station master of a signal, in my opinion it would be his duty to see to that signal directly.

COURT. Q. You say you supposed it had been communicated to the foreman? A. I never reported it to the foreman, only to the station master—I have no reason to suppose it was reported to the foreman—it had been reported by another driver some time ago—I saw the report in the book—I did not report it to the locomotive superintendent after I had mentioned it to the station master—I thought that was doing it in the most direct manner—I intended reporting it that night to the locomotive foreman, in the report book—I had formed that resolution from what I observed that night—when I arrive at Blackheath, I make a point to look along to Lewisham, and if I do not see a white light I know there is a red one on, although I cannot see it—it was that that made me shut off my steam on that night—I shut it off before seeing the red light—it is some time ago that I saw the report book with the complaint in it—I should say

eighteen months ago, or more than that—if the fireman had the furnace door open, the light thrown from that would greatly affect the sight of the driver—it would make it more difficult for him to see the signal—it is necessary to open the fire door to put the fuel in.

JOHN GILL HARRIS . I am a clerk in the superintendent's office of the South Eastern Railway Company. I know the North Kent line—on Sunday night, 28th June, I was a passenger by the 9.15 train from Strood—I was in the first class compartment of a composite carriage, which was the next carriage but one to the engine—I remained in the train while it was going from Blackheath to Lewisham—I saw the distance signal at Lewisham two or three times as I was going along after we left Blackheath—I first saw it between the two bridges, or rather about the first bridge—it was a very good red light when I saw it on the several occasions.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Are yon in the employ of the Company? A. Yes, a paid official—there were five or six other persons in the carriage with me—I looked out at the window when I saw the light—I could not have seen it without—I looked out on purpose to see it, feeling the break on, and the diminution of speed; I thought the train was going to pull up—I felt the break on between Blackheath and Lewisham, between the two bridges, about half way, as near as I can say—it was the putting on of the break, and the shutting off of the steam that induced me to look out—the steam was shut off I should think about the first bridge from Blackheath—I do not think I saw any persons putting their heads out of window but myself—I cannot say how many passengers, who were not paid officials of the railway, were examined before the Coroner and the Magistrate—I believe there were some examined—Mr. Bodkin appeared at the inquest for the Railway Company—I did not see him before the Magistrate—I do not know how many passengers, who were unconnected with the railway, were examined at the inquest, perhaps two or three—I have seen Mr. Wilcox, and had conversations with him—he was there—I do not know Mr. Spratt, Mr. Shaw, or Mr. Heath.

GEORGE ABBOTT . I was head guard to the 9.30 train on the night this accident occurred—the train consisted of fifteen carriages in number, and eighteen in weight—they had about the average number of passengers in them for a Sunday night—we have more passengers on Sunday nights than on others—my under guard started the train from Blackheath after I gave him the signal—I got the signal from Mr. Chapman, the station master—I was in the rear of the train, and the under guard in front—Perry was the driver of the engine—Whiffen was the assistant, the fireman, or stoker—I did not hear Mr. Chapman ask any questions of anybody before he started the train—after we had started from Blackheath, on our way to Lewisham, I saw the red light—that was just as we passed the first bridge from Blackheath, the Love Lane bridge—the light I saw was the distance signal of the Lewisham station—on observing that red light, I put on the break the first thing—it would have been the duty of the engine driver to have given me the signal to have put on the break if he saw the red light—he did not do that—I put on the break on seeing the red light—I then leaned out of window, and saw two other red lights—I was in one of the observatory breaks, but I looked out of the side window, the door window—the other two red lights turned out to be, one, the semaphore signal at the station, and the other the tail light at the end of the train—the collision happened immediately afterwards—I am not aware that anything was done by the driver or the foreman in consequence of my putting

the break on—I heard the whistle—I could not tell whether any other break was put on, not to be certain—at the time I first saw the signal we were going at the rate of about twenty miles an hour—when we passed the distance signal we were going about eight or ten miles an hour—as soon as I put on my break I heard the engine whistle, one beat of the whistle, and then the pace was reduced—our train was to stop at Lewisham—we ran into the other train at the pace I have stated, and the accident occurred.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Is the observatory break in which you were, all glass? A. There is glass round the roof of ft, so that you can see—it is my duty, as guard, to look out—the observatory break is not higher than the roof of all the other carriages—it is not higher than all the carriages in front—it is not always so arranged so that I shall have my view impeded, very seldom—sometimes it may happen—sometimes it is so arranged that you cannot see through the observatory—it is my duty to watch the signals—I have no means of communicating with the driver—I am higher than the driver when my head is in the observatory; not much; it may be eight or ten inches, or it may be a foot, but I do not think it is—there were no carriages to impede my view that night—I did not say there were—I said sometimes there were—supposing I see the signal it is not my duty to give any signal to the driver, otherwise than the use of the break—it would be no use to whistle; they could not hear; we could not whistle load enough—we have a whistle—it is not my duty to whistle if there is any danger of any kind—I should not whistle, because I should consider it would be of no use—I have no means of communicating with the driver, except by putting on the break—I do not know whether Bartram, the under guard, put on his break—on this night he was in a small break—I do not think he would be quite so high as the driver—whilst I was screwing my break down I heard the driver's whistle—it was not a heavy train for a Sunday night—I put on three fresh carriages at Woolwich—that was not because we had not the means of accommodating the passengers there—it was for the traffic between Woolwich and London—our own carriages were full, or nearly so—on hearing the whistle I should have put on my break as hard as I could, if I had not begun to put it on before, even if I had not seen the red light—the time I put on the break was just after I passed the Love Lane bridge, and as I was in the act of patting on the break, I heard the whistle—I have no reason to doubt but that everything was done, from the time I heard the whistle, that possibly could be done to stop the train—I have seen the danger signal before that night—Mr. Chapman gave the word to start the train—he said, "All right, Abbott"—I am aware that the company work their stations by telegraphic signals and distance signals—we are all aware of that—I cannot say how long the telegraph has been at work; I should say about four years—the trains have been worked by telegraphic signals—I have a book, which it is necessary every person employed on the line should have in his possession—that book contains no directions to the guard about the telegraphic signals—it may have been made long before the introduction of the telegraphic system of communication on the South Eastern—I have been in the employ eleven years and five months—I had no book when I commenced; I worked with the list of rules then—I think the book was published in 1851—when Mr. Chapman said, "All right," I understood that all was right for my taking the train into the Lewisham station—I do not know how the telegraph works—I do not understand it—I have seen it—it has a face like

a clock—it is not my duty to look at it—I do not know whether it is the station master's duty to look at it before he tells the guard that all is right—the station master is supreme at the station—any persons employed there would be under him—if he walked into the place where the dial was he could immediately see whether it was "All clear up," or "Stop all up"—I do not know their code of working—I took it for granted, when I heard that all was right, that all was right, and communicated it to the under guard and the driver—having received that intimation from Mr. Chapman, I did not think it necessary to look towards the signal at Lewisham—I have received an intimation that all was right at Blackheath station, and have found the danger signal up at Lewisham, when the station at Lewisham was perfectly empty, and there was no danger at all—I will not say that I have done so frequently, but I have done so several times.

COURT. Q. The danger would be higher up, I suppose? A. I do not know where the danger would be—if there was any stoppage at New Cross they would still keep up the danger signal at Lewisham.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. When you were looking out at the window from your observatory, if any one had been waving a red light in your face, do you think you should have seen it? A. I think I should—I did not see any such red light waved.

MR. BODKIN. Q. You have stated that, hearing the station master at Blackheath say that all was right to start, you should not look out for the red signal; is that so? A. I should not look for it on the platform at Blackheath—as I went from Blackheath to Lewisham, it would be my duty to look out for the danger signal at Lewisham, if I was not otherwise occupied—it is my duty to look out for signals—I might be occupied by entering the time in my book—I was entering the time in my book on the night of the accident, at the time of leaving Blackheath—I did that after we left Blackheath—I rely more on the driver looking out—I had done making my entry in my book before I saw the red light—I had just put the book down, and looked up, and saw the signal—that was just after I had got through the first bridge—if the steam had been turned off, and the breaks used to stop the train at the time I first saw the red signal, I do not think the train could have been stopped before it got to the distance signal—I first saw the red light just as I passed under the Love Lane bridge—I do not know what the distance is between the place where I first saw the red light and the distance signal—in my judgment, there was not time to stop the train before it got to the distance signal.

JOHN BARTRAM . I was the under guard of the train on the North Kent line which left Strood at half past 9 o'clock. When we arrived at Blackheath, I received the signal to start the train from Abbott—I gave the signal to Perry, who was the driver—I was in the front break, next to the engine—I saw the distance signal between the two bridges; it was a red light exhibited—on seeing the red light, I applied my break—I had not heard any whistle at that time—I heard no whistle from the driver—I have no idea at what speed we were going at the time I applied the break—soon after we put our breaks on, the driver gave a whistle; before we stopped the train I heard a whistle, but what whistle it was I do not know; it was either a man or something of that kind; it was not the driver's whistle—when I heard the whistle, the train was, as near as I could tell, about twenty yards from the bridge nearest to Lewisham, in between the two bridges.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. The danger signal, I think you said before, was given by the driver? A. It was just before we struck the train; it was, as near as I could tell, against the distance signal.

COURT. Q. The driver gave the danger signal, that is a whistle, is it not? A. Yes, the train whistle—I believe he reversed the engine.

MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. You know that he did actually reverse the engine, do you not; and it Was found reversed after the accident? A. He had reversed the engine before it struck—I had my break on when I heard the whistle; that was a whistle from some man; it seemed as if it was with the fingers or the mouth—I was examined before the Coroner—I was never asked before whether it was a whistle with fingers—the danger signal (a whistle) was given at the time I was putting on my break—I considered that to be a danger whistle—if I had not put on my break then, I should have done it on hearing that whistle—I was then putting on my break—I am ft porter and assistant guard—I am only occasionally employed as assistant guard—I have been often so employed; I cannot say how often; off and on for some time—it was not immediately after my break was put down that I heard the danger whistle—I put on the break between the two bridges, and we were through the bridge nearest to Lewisham when the driver gave me the whistle—I know that Abbott has been examined to-day—I cannot say that he has spoken falsely if he has said that he heard the whistle of the engine at the time he was putting down the break—my break was on when I heard the whistle—I cannot say that immediately after my break was on I heard the whistle and the engine reversed, for I looked out, and saw the semaphore signal against the station, and I turned my head in, and turned it on harder.

COURT. Q. You say you heard two whistles, one while you were putting on your break? A. Yes, that was from a man of some kind—it was not above a moment, I may say, between, the two whistles—I have not mentioned about the two whistles before to-day; I was not asked anything about the whistling with the fingers.

MR. BODKIN. Q. About how long does it take to get a break fully on? A. I should say half a minute—the break was full on before I heard the whistle from the driver, not before I heard any whistle—as I was putting it on, I heard the whistle from the man; it was on as tight as I could get it on when I heard the second whistle; that was the whistle of the engine—I heard the engine reversed—I was then on the half look out—the train was then very near to the other; I might say directly afterwards we struck the other train; directly after the engine was reversed, it struck the train—when I heard the engine reversed, it was as near against the distance signal as I could tell—I saw Mr. Kelson after the accident occurred; I saw him down among the passengers, that was all I saw of him—I did not go with him to look at the distance signal.

GEORGE ABBOTT . re-examined. Three minutes is the time allowed to get from Blackheath to Lewisham, and put down and take up passengers—Lewisham is three quarters of a mile from Blackheath—if we had left at our proper time, we should have accomplished that object, but we were detained more than a minute more at Blackheath; we were two minutes there—we do not generally do it in the three minutes, mostly in four—we do not get fined if we do not do it in three—we mostly take four minutes, but not every night.

ROBERT LETHBRIDCE . I am in the employment of Messrs. Broadwood, pianoforte makers. I was a passenger by the 9.30 train from Strood—I

got in at the Woolwich Arsenal—the train stopped at Blackheath—I remained in the train—I was in a third class carriage—it had a covering to it, but was open at the sides—I was next the side, and was smoking—I was looking out of the carriage on the up side nearest the station—after leaving Blackheath, as I was looking out, I saw the red light, the distance signal—the train was then between the two bridges.

Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. You were not examined before the Magistrate, I believe? A. No, nor before the Coroner—it was some time after the accident that I was first spoken to upon this subject—I had a little conversation with Mr. Nelson about it—I cannot say exactly the time; it might be a month after the accident—I did not go down to see Mr. Nelson—I met him at the station—I had been to see a friend in the town—we had some conversation regarding the accident, and it came out in conversation about the red light—I said I was leaning out of the window, and saw the red light between the two bridges.

EDWARD DUNCAN CHAPMAN . I am station master at Blackheath, I Started both these trains—I started the last train, the 9.30, from Strood, at about 10.53—I started it on the authority of the signal man—I saw Wiley that night after the last train had started—he came and made some communication to me—the distance signal at Lewisham can be seen from the Blackheath station both by day and night.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Had it been a cloudy night on the night of the accident? A. I do not remember—I do not think it was a cloudy night—I very seldom look at the state of the atmosphere—I did not look at the dial before giving the signal for the train to go on—I certainly do not think I ought to have done so—it is not my duty—Griffiths is employed at the dial—he was signal porter—the dial is in the signal box—it has a face like a clock, so that you can see the points—by going into the signal box before I gave the signal of all right, I could have seen the dial—I did not do so—Griffiths was not employed in other work at the time of starting the train—he has other duties, between the time of starting the trains he would assist in sorting tickets—the telegraph is only used for the starting of trains—it does not give any information of obstructions or accidents—it is not self-acting—there is an obstruction code for the use of the telegraph in certain cases—the telegraph is never left from the commencement of the traffic in the morning until the last thing at night, or, in fact, during the whole of the night—somebody is or ought to be always within sound of the bell or gong—it is by a bell, or gong, that attention is attracted to any message that may have been sent—I hate been a station master for about ten years—if a train is detained at my station six or seven minutes on a Sunday night, I should certainly consider it an obstruction, but that is left entirely to the discretion of the station master—there is a rule, that the station master shall have a discretionary power in everything connected with the traffic—I should have considered the danger enhanced by a train stopping at my station which had no business to stop there—I think I should, have acted on the rules, I might have done.

MR. BODKIN. Q. Suppose you were on duty as station master at Blackheath, and were about to start the train towards London, what use would be made of the telegraph? A. The signal man in the box, directly the train arrived, would give two beats on the bell at Lewisham station, by the application of a piston—the answer to that would be, if the line was clear, one beat on the gong with the simultaneous moving of the indicator

to stop all up—then the train would be allowed to proceed—that would prevent anything going after it until the same process was gone over again—it is no part of my duty to look at the indicator—I could, not do so consistently with my other duties—I receive it from the signal man—he is placed there to give me the signal.

JOHN NELSON . I am station master at Lewisham. I was on duty there on the night of the accident—the 9.15 train was stopped at our station—it would not stop there in the ordinary course—I noticed the distance signal at the time that train arrived—it stood at danger—it also stood, at danger when the 9.30 train came in—the 9.15 train stopped, I suppose, about twenty yards from the platform—it did not come up to, the platform at all—there was no room in it for any passengers—a good many passengers were waiting to go to London—I noticed the Beckenham train come in on that line from the branch—I was on the platform when the collision took place—several persons were killed—I afterwards went down to look at the distance signal—I found it on full danger to Blackheath—I saw. Perry after the collision, and had some conversation with him—he did not make any complaint to me of the state of the red light—we make a point of adjusting that red light three times a day, and oftener, if required—it is operated on by means of a wire which works on a lever—the wire is apt to he, affected by the atmosphere—it had been rectified that day.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. But complaints have been made to you of the state of that signal? A. Occasionally; not of its being a doubtful signal, but about the adjustment of it—the adjustment of a signal is the making it what it ought to be—it was not chronically imperfect, if I may use the term—complaints were made from time to time that it required adjustment—a thing requires adjustment when it gets oat of order—I should say it has been out of order in that way half a dozen times in six months—I do not remember Hill, the driver, complaining of the imperfection of this, signal—I cannot swear that he has not—I cannot point out the driver who has complained—I have had complaints from drivers, probably from three or four; I should say not from so many as five or six—I did not report it to the locomotive foreman—we adjust the signal, every day—we did so before the accident, and we have done so since—all distance signals require it daily—I cannot say that this requires it more than others—the gas fitter has been there—I do not know, what he has done with the pipes—something has been done since the accident—it is not correct, that on the Tuesday following the accident the pipes were examined, and that water was found in them impeding the operation of the gas—I sent for the gas fitter to examine them, and, my impression is that he undid the pipes—I did not see what he did—I did not inquire what was the matter—he told me nothing was the matter—I believe he is here—I sent for him, because I found the light burning at midday, which it ought not to have been—that was on the Tuesday—it appeared to me then not to be so large as I had previously seen it, and I immediately wrote down to the gas fitter to come and see to it, and he did so—the light did not become larger in consequence—I did not perceive any difference—he told me it was the day pressure—there is a difference between the day pressure and the night pressure—the wire has been broken twice since the accident, and it has been repaired—the glass has been broken, and that has been repaired—the light has not been looked to in consequence of the accident, and repaired, and made a good light, instead of a bad one—it is not a bad light now, it is a good light, and it was a good light then—since the accident the gas pipes have been disconneeted,

and looked to—I cannot say that they have been cleaned out—it is my impression that they have been cleaned out under my direction—the gas pipes have certainly been cleaned out under my directions, to improve the light—I am not aware that they have been cleaned out and brightened since the accident—I was not present—I really cannot say that they have—I am the station master there still—I have not been suspended or blamed, not the slightest—I have not been complimented or praised that I am aware of—the 9.15 train was stopped at the station very nearly twenty minutes, I should say—I was aware that that train was considerably past its time when it arrived at the Lewisham station—I was aware that the 9.30 train had to follow it, starting from Strood a quarter of an hour after it—I did not take any steps to give warning to the 9.30 train that was coming—a great number of persons were waiting at my station to go on to London—I should suppose not far off 100—I believe the distance between the Lewisham platform and the Lewisham junction is about 440 yards—the 9.15 train was standing right on the platform of the Lewisham station, between that and Blackheath—I knew that the 9.30 train was going to stop at Lewisham—it would have been totally against orders and usage to have taken the 9.15 train on to the space between the Lewisham junction and the station—I have not said that the reason I did not do so was because I was afraid that the people waiting at the station would get into it; the reason I did not draw it up to the platform was, to prevent parties rushing and attempting to get in where there was no room—the only reason why it was not drawn past the platform was, that it was against all orders and usage—I am not aware that there is any written order which says that I shall not place a train in safety under such circumstances—if I had allowed the train to have gone past my station, it might have gone across the junction crossing, and there was no signal man there to stop it; the engine might have gone over the cross road, nobody would have control over it; we trusted entirely to the telegraph and the road signals—then was a danger signal up at the junction, but he might have got across the line, and still hare been beyond the signal.

MR. BODKIN. Q. I n your judgment, would that have been a dangerous proceeding? A. Yes—I knew that the 9.30 train was to follow this in due course—I knew that according to the rules and regulations it could not start from Blackheath without the signal being made that all was clear from Lewisham—I also knew that the red signal of danger was up at Lewisham—the complaints made to me about the state of the distance signal were mere passing remarks, that the distance signal did not stand light—those complaints were attended to immediately, and it was set to rights at once—it is turned by a wire that is worked by a lever; if the wire gets stiffened or contracted it does not turn it perfectly square round; it would, perhaps, be a little oblique, so that the next time it was looked at it would not be square—that was always remedied by altering the wire—there is a coupling for the purpose, so as to admit of the wire being shortened or lengthened—it is so with every distance signal, and every station signal; it is lighted by gas—I cannot say how often it is looked to by the gas workmen, it is occasionally looked to—after this accident occurred, I sent for the gas man usually employed, and desired him to look to the light—I did not myself see anything that he did—after he had been there he returned to me, and told me there was nothing the matter—that is all I know about it—I do not know of any such operation as brightening gas pipes.

THOMAS GILMER . (Policeman, R 1). On Sunday night, 28th June, the two prisoners were given into my custody at the Lewisham station—Whiffen said that he was poking the fire between Blackheath and where the accident took place, and he did not observe the distance signal—Perry said that he did not see why he should be given into custody; he had received the order to go on at Blackheath, and did not observe the danger light until he arrived at the bridge nearest to Lewisham, when he observed a light on the abutment of the bridge next Lewisham, that he turned round and looked towards the danger signal light, and saw it but half turned on—I do not recollect that he said any more.

COURT. Q. Did not he say that he did not observe the red light till he got nearly through the bridge? A. Yes, and that he immediately turned off his steam, and reversed the engine—he said the red light was not turned on full—he complained at that very time of the deficiency of the red light—I understood him that he did not see the light until he saw it shining on the abutment of the bridge.

MR. BODKIN. Q. When did this conversation take place? A. Onthat same Sunday night, about an hour and a half after the accident—he was given into my custody by Mr. Nelson.

THOMAS CHEALL . (Policeman, R 155). I was at the Lewisham station after the accident—I assisted in moving out the bodies of the persons who were injured and killed—among others, I took out the body of a person who was identified by his father as Thomas Franklin—he was quite dead.

GEORGE FRANKLIN . I went down to Lewisham upon the occurrence of this accident, and found that my son had been killed—his body was at the Plough Inn—his name was Thomas Franklin.

(The Jury did not call upon the prisoners' Counsel to address the Jury, but found the prisoners

NOT GUILTY ., and-expressed their great dissatisfaction at the extremely defective state of the signals, and the bad time kept.)

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-988
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

Related Material

988. JOHN GRIFFITHS (23) was again indicted for feloniously killing and slaying John Ballinger.

(MR. BODKIN. offered no evidence.)


(There were two other indictments against Perry and Griffiths for killing and slaying Ann Elizabeth Stangate Wilcox and Horatio Turner; upon which, no evidence being offered, an Acquittal was taken.)


Before Michael Prendergast, Esq., Q. C.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-989
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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989. GEORGE BEEMAN (47) was indicted for, unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-990
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude

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990. CHARLES WILLIAMS (29) and JOHN FITZGERALD(26) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of Francis Stone, and stealing therein two spoons, and other articles, value 1l. 10s., her preperty.

MR. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.

MARTHA STONE . I am the wife of Francis Stone, a wholesale biscuit baker, of No. 69, Blackman Street, St. George the Martyr. I went to bed on Saturday night, 5th Sept, soon after 12 o'clock—I had locked up the place—the doors were fast—the spoons and tongs were in a cupboard over

the iron safe in the back room, behind the shop—5s. in coppers was in a desk in the shop—all the doors leading to the shop and parlour, were locked—I was awoke about half past 2 o'clock by a noise—I got up, lighted a candle, and went part of the way down stairs, as far as the drawing room—I saw there was a light on the floor below—I went back up stairs, and put out my own light—I came down without my light, and saw very clearly that there was a light, and saw figures moving about—I think there were two, but I am sure of one—I imagine one was in the passage—I went up stairs and awoke the servant and two shop women; I begged them to be as Silent as possible till we had arranged ourselves to give the alarm—when we had arranged ourselves I went two steps down, and called loudly, "Who is there?"—I immediately heard a heavy fall, and more than one person ran heavily along the passage leading to the bakehouse—I looked out at the back window and saw two men distinctly get on the wall, and cross toward the coach house in Kesterton's yard, where the policeman found the prisoners—I called out, "Police! thieves!" and called for the gun—we called lustily for the police again—I heard the police coming, and I ran down to the parlour; I found great confusion—the till was on the table, the cupboards were broken—the window was wide open, and the two shop doors open—I missed from the desk a 5s. paper of coppers—that was all that was in the desk—from the cupboard I missed two silver tea spoons and the sugar tongs—the iron safe had been tried very much—I saw the policeman find a piece of a chisel, and there was a piece of it broken off, and sticking in the iron safe—the yard door was open—a large pair of scissors was on the floor, they were broken, and a piece of them was found in the safe, as if an attempt had been made with the chisel and the scissors to open the safe.

Cross-examined by MR. HORRY. Q. Did you see several shadows in the shop? A. I think there were three—I am quite certain I saw two—it was moonlight—the moon was not full, it was rather decreasing—I think I can identify the persons I saw—I did not see their faces, but as regards their figure, and appearance, and height, the prisoners are the men—from the house to the wall which goes down to the coach house is about fifty yards—I cannot say at that distance what became of them—I saw the prisoners in not more than a minute afterwards—there are ten houses between our house and the yard.

JOSEPH BALDRY . (Policeman, M 71). I heard a cry of "Thieves!" and "Police!" on that Sunday morning, as I was in Great Suffolk Street; I went down the yard—there are a great many stables—Mr. Kesterton's is one of them—I went along that yard in the direction towards the sound—I went into the coach house, the door was partly open, and I saw the two prisoners come down from off a shed adjoining the coach house, on to a ladder, and into the coach house—I asked them what they were doing—they gave me no answer—I took Williams, and called for assistance, and 484 A. came and took Fitzgerald—I took Williams to the station, and went back to the coach house; I had observed what part of the coach house Fitzgerald went to, and in that corner, behind the chaise, I found 2s. 4 1/2 d. I n copper money, and this screwdriver, which I compared with the marks on Mr. Stone's cupboard—it was this that the door was opened with—I found this small screwdriver in the parlour—this Mr. Stone himself identified—a portion of this was broken off in the iron safe—Mr. Stone's premises are about four doors from the corner of Great Suffolk Street—the prisoners were coming in a direction from Mr. Stone's—I saw Williams first—I saw them both come down off the shed.

JOHN WHITE . (Policeman, A 484). I was called by the last witness—I went into the coach house and took Fitzgerald into custody—I took him to the station, went back to the coach house, and found these spoons, and these tongs, close by where I apprehended Fitzgerald—I found on Fitzgerald 1 3/4d.

MARTHA STONE . These spoons and tongs are mine—they were safe on the night before the robbery.





Before Mr. Recorder.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-991
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > pleaded guilty

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991. JAMES THOMPSON (38) and THOMAS PAYNE (30) , Breaking and entering the dwelling house of William Clothier, and stealing 1 watch, value 3l. 10s.; his property: to which




14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-992
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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992. ELLEN MATTHEWS (18) , Robbery, with a man unknown, on Henry Whittaker, and stealing his watch, chain, and key, value 4l.

MR. LAKTON. conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY WHITTAKER . I live at Clapham. On the night of 31st Aug. I was walking along Kennington Road; the prisoner came to me, and laid her hand on my arm—I turned to put her away, and a man immediately struck me and knocked me down on my face, and as I fell I observed my watch taken from me; it had been in my waistcoat pocket just before—I fell on my face, and cut it very much—I called, "Police!" and the policeman came; the prisoner ran away, but was brought back by a policeman—the prisoner is the woman—I had a watch key at the end of my guard—that was all safe.

Prisoner. I was walking along the road, and you came and ran up against me, and begged my pardon: you were so intoxicated you did not know what you did. Witness. No, I never saw you till you came and took hold of my arm—I had been drinking in Charlotte Street, but I was not intoxicated—I do not believe I went into any public house.

Prisoner. He said, "I think I have the pleasure of knowing you;" I said, "What is your name?" he said, "Mr. Whittaker;" he called for a glass of ale, and gave it to a man, and when he went out he fell down, he was so intoxicated, the man took him up by the railings, and told him to take a cab; I went on, and saw him on the ground, calling, "Police!" and the officer came and took me. Witness. She had hold of my arm when I was knocked down, I will swear.

GEORGE HULL . (Policeman, P 164). On the night of 31st Aug. I was on duty in Kennington Road about a quarter before 12 o'clock—I was walking on one side, going towards Kennington Common—I saw the prisoner on the other side; she had hold of the prosecutor's right arm—I kept my eye on them—when they had walked about twenty yards, the prosecutor was thrown or fell down—the prisoner ran away—I crossed, and ran after her, and brought her back to the prosecutor—in the mean time, she had caught hold of an elderly gentleman by the right arm.

Prisoner. You said you saw me go to the gentleman, and lay hold of his right arm, and throw him on the ground. Witness. No, I did not; I asked you what you had done to the man, and you said you never saw him

nor touched him—there were two or three men walking behind him at the same time—the prisoner had hold of him the minute before he was thrown down.

JURY. Q. Was the prosecutor intoxicated? A. He had been drinking, but he was walking—the prisoner had got hold of his arm, and I thought he was trying to get rid of her—he seemed perfectly to know what he was doing—the moment I brought the prisoner back, he said, "That is the woman that robbed me of my watch."

ROBERT PEARSON CARR . I live in Kennington Road. I was returning from the Surrey Gardens—I saw the prisoner holding the prosecutor, and a man said, "You had better take a cab"—I walked on a short distance, and I turned and saw the prosecutor on the ground—there was a man with her, fend the prosecutor and the man said, "You had better take a cab"—I thought they were friends.


14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-993
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

993. MARTHA BROOKS (33), ANN GOULD (30), and THOMAS TOWNSEND(38) , Stealing 2 silver mugs, and other articles, value 35l., and 30. I n money; the property of John Sampson Pierce, the master of Brooks; in his dwelling house.—2nd COUNT., charging Townsend with receiving the same.

MR. GIFFARD. conducted the Prosecution.

JANE ELIZABETH PIERCE . I am the wife of John Sampson Pierce. On 22nd July the prisoner Brooks applied to me for a situation as general servant—I asked for a reference, and eye referred me to Mrs. Wright, No. 7, New Dorset Place, Clapham Road; I went there on the following day, and I saw the prisoner Gould under the name of Mrs. Wright—I asked her whether Brooks was strictly honest and sober and a good servant, and whether she was a person on whom I could place dependence to take out of my property—she gave me satisfactory answers to all those questions——she said that Brooks had been in her service two years and a half, and had left her about three weeks—in consequence of this, Brooks came into my service on the following Tuesday, 28th July, and brought with her a box, painted green—on Thursday afternoon, 30th July, I went out with my nursemaid, leaving Brooks alone in charge of my house; I returned in about half an hour, and found a variety of property had been taken away—Brooks was gone, and the house was empty with the exception of my husband.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. How long had Brooks been with you? A. Only two days—I did not see any one visit her.

JOHN SAMPSON PIERCE . I live in Wandsworth parish. On 30th July I came home about 5 o'clock, but could not get in—I got over a side gate and entered the house by the garden door at the back—I found no one there—while I was looking about, my wife returned—the cheffonier in the during room was broken open—my gold watch was gone, a silver pint mug, a silver half pint mug, the cruet stand, and other articles—the cash box was missing which had had in it 71 or 81.—the constable has some things which are mine.

THOMAS MARKS . I live at Wandsworth, and am a greengrocer. About half past 3 o'clock in the afternoon of 30th July I was in Church Field, and saw the prisoner Townsend and another man lying down on the grass, about fifty or sixty yards from Mr. Pierce's—I went on further, and I saw that they had moved—I went down the town, and I afterwards saw Brooks and Townsend coming over the bridge, about a quarter before 6 o'clock—the

bridge is 600 yards from Mr. Pierce's house—Townsend bad a band box with him—the officer has that box—this is it—something attracted my attention, and I followed Brooks and Townsend, and made a communication to the policeman—I went with him to Wands worth, and there Brooks and Townsend were taken—he could not take the other man who had been with Townsend; he was gone on ahead.

Cross-examined. Q. What were you doing in Church Field? A. I t is a thoroughfare—I was engaged at a shooting match—I noticed two men lying on the grass—the other man was not so tall as Townsend—he was dark, and rather stout—I did not know the man's name before Townsend was taken—he said at the police court that it was his brother—I do not know what made him say so—the inspector asked him.

Townsend. I believe I never mentioned my brother's name, nor mentioned that it was my brother.

GEORGE PARKER . (Policeman, V 64). I went with the last witness, and took Townsend and Brooks—Townsend was carrying this box—I asked Brooks what she had got—she told me, "Dirty linen—I asked her where she came from—she told me, some place a little distance back; she did not know the place; she had been there only two days, and it was a very bad place, and she had left—after waiting some time, I thought it was not satisfactory, and I took her to the station—she said she had some cups and tea things, and a tea caddy, in the box—Townsend stated that he had accidentally met her, and asked her to allow him to carry the box, as he wanted to earn a few halfpence—when I got to the station I looked into the box—I found in it this jemmy, some skeleton keys, this small key, this silver pint mug, this half pint mug, this cash box, this cruet stand, these silver spoons, and other things.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you see the other man? A. Yes, but he was about a quarter of a mile from me when I first saw him—I did get within about a dozen yards of him—I had never seen him before to my knowledge—I have not seen him since—I know now who that man was; his name is Charles Green; that is one of his names—he is a short, dark man, about five feet six inches and a half—I believe he is married to Brooks.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Do you know where Brooks has been living? A. Yes, six years and a half in the service of Mr. Sloan, of Brompton—she left some time in July—I know Gould—she has not been living with her.

HENRY PROCTOR . (Police inspector). I was at the station on 30th July, when Brooks was there—her hand was under her shawl; she was doing something at her pocket—I searched her pocket, and found this gold watch, two guards, and a gold pin.

Cross-examined. Q. Did Townsend say anything? A. Yes, he said he had earned 2d. that day, and he had been employed to carry the box.

JOHN SAMPSON PIERCE . re-examined. These articles are my property.

PRISCILLA SMITH . The live at No. 7, New Dorset Place, Clapham. The prisoner Gould came to me on 20th July—she passed by the name of Mrs. Wright—she left on the 22nd—she left a box, which I opened about a fortnight afterwards—I found in it a piece of dirty carpet, an old tin kettle, a brick, and some wet mould.

JANE COCKRAN . I live as servant, next door to Mr. Pierce. On 30th July, in the morning, I saw a man come out of Mr. Pierce's, of middling height, he had black hair and dark complexion—he had a box on his shoulder, painted green—after that I heard Mrs. Pierce and her nurse go

out, and after that I saw Brooks go out, about half past 4 o'clock; she had got this bandbox and a bundle.


BROOKS— GUILTY .— Confined Six Months

TOWNSEND— GUILTY . on 2nd Count.— Confined Twelve Months.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-994
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown

Related Material

994. MARTHA BROOKS(33) and ANN GOULD (30) were again indicted for stealing, on 18th June, 1 cash box, value 1l.; the goods of Charles John Jones; and, on 28th June, 1 coat, 1 time piece, and other goods, value 6l.; of Charles John Jones, in the dwelling house of Abraham Bateman.—2nd COUNT., feloniously receiving the same.

MR. GIFFARD. conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES JOHN JONES . In June last I occupied No. 4, Great Queen Street, Lincoln's Inn Fields. I am an axletree manufacturer—I missed a cash box, a day or two after 18th June; I had seen it safe on the morning of the 18th—it contained papers, of no value to any one but myself—I have seen it since, in possession of the officer—this is it—the handle has been taken off, and the lock forced off—it was very heavy—on 28th June there was a coat, a time piece, and a gold ring in my apartment at Mr. Abraham Bateman's—the time piece and the pin were safe that day; I can hardly say when I had seen the coat.

MARTHA WELLMAN . In June last I was housekeeper at Mr. Jones's chambers—the prisoner Brooks is my sister; she always visited me regularly—I remember the cash box being safe on 18th June, and I missed it next morning, the 19th, about 8 o'clock—Brooks had been there on the 18th, she and her husband, and he asked to be allowed to go up stairs—on Sunday, 28th June, I left the chambers in care of my sister, Mrs. Ballard, and that night I missed the coat, the time piece, and the pin, which were safe at 1 o'clock that day—they were missing by 6 o'clock in the evening; I did not miss them till 10 o'clock.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. Where was Mr. Jones's room? A. On the first floor—my sister's husband was married to her in the name of Charles Green—he asked to be allowed to go up stairs; he did not go up to my knowledge—my sister came to visit me every time she could get out; she was six years and three quarters in service—in June she visited me every day—her husband was there every day, till we had a quarrel, after I missed the cash box; till then he used to come frequently.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. Was there more property taken than is now produced? A. Yes, I should not think there is half of it here.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. When Brooks was there, was she in your company? A. Yes, except when I went up into the gentleman's room—she had only gone up stairs in my presence—I kept the key of each room in my pocket.

MARIA BALLARD . I am the widow of Joseph Ballard, and am sister of the last witness and of the prisoner Brooks. On 28th June I was left in charge of the house in which the chambers are—Brooks came there between 12 and 1 o'clock—she went out, and came back again in about an hour's time—she let herself out; I was in the kitchen—she went away for the last time about 10 minutes past 6 o'clock in the evening—in about a quarter of an hour afterwards I went into Mr. Jones's room; I found all the drawers open—I had been in it the day before to set it straight.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. During the time she was there, was she chiefly in your company? A. Yes, all the time—she never, to my knowledge, went up stairs—she never left me, only to go out for the beer—when

she came in, she was obliged to ring the bell—when I went into Mr. Jones's room was when she went out the first time—I know she did not go up stairs the whole time she was there; she only went out at the door to fetch the beer, when she rang the bell, and I let her in—she left a few minutes after 6 o'clock—I went up to the door with her—she let herself out when she went to get the beer—she went out twice; the first time she was gone about half an hour—when she went out I was in the kitchen—I knew she was out, by hearing the door bang—she let herself out.

COURT. Q. How was Mr. Jones's door when you went up? A. The door was locked—I had the key in my pocket all day.

JOHN DENDY . (Police sergeant, V 42). On Saturday morning, 15th Aug., about 10 o'clock, I went to No. 23, Camden Street, Walworth; it is a marine store shop—I found Gould in the back parlour, or rather the kitchen of that place—I searched, and found this cash box in a shed in the back yard, and in a drawer behind the counter, in the shop I found this brass lock and brass fittings of the cash box (produced)—in the shop I found this coat, and in the back room in the first floor I found this timepiece—Gould asked me to allow her to go to the water closet—I said, "Before you go, turn out your pocket"—she turned out this purse, and in it was this gold pin—I asked her how she came in possession of the things; she said, "He brought them"—I asked who "He" was, and she declined to say any more.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. You found this cash box in the shed? A. Yes—the coat was hanging up behind the door in the front shop—I cannot say whether it was for sale—the time piece was on the chimney piece in the back room up stairs—when—I asked Gould how she came in possession of these things, she said, "He brought them"—I was told she was not living alone; I made inquiry, and was told a person named Green was there—I believe he went by the name of Gould as well—I never heard the name of Pooley.

COURT. Q. After you found the pin, did Gould go to the yard? A. She did.

MR. JONES. I believe this to be my pin.

Ma DOYLE. called

GEORGE HARVEY JACKSON . I produce a certificate of a marriage between William Pooley and Caroline Walters, on 7th Dec, 1852—I was present—I remember Gould's face, but I do not profess to identify her as Caroline Walters—I was a witness to the marriage, and gave her away, but whether it was the marriage to Pooley I will not say—it was at Marylebone Church.

MANNING ROWLANDS . I know the prisoner Gould; she lived at a marine store shop at Walworth—I know her husband; he went by the name of Gould there—the shop was his; he carried on the business—I know Ann Gould always had a good character.

Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. Have you known her some time? A. Yes, four or five years—she had been in that shop about a week—I did not know her by the name of Ann Gould till this charge was made against her; before I heard of this charge I knew her by the name of Caroline Pooley—I am brother-in-law to Townsend; I am very sorry to say that she has been led into it by her husband—after she was taken into custody, I went to the shop and removed the goods—I was told by the landlord that I might remove the goods; he thought the case was settled, and I might remove them—I was wished to go and take the goods by Mrs. Gould;

she wished me to take care of the goods—I took them to No. 10, Charles Street; Townsend's father lives there—he has nothing to do with the matter, that I know of, but I had no place of my own, and I thought I would take them there, as there was room.

MR. DOYLE. Q. You knew Gould by the name of Pooley, before you knew him by the name of Gould? A. Yes—Pooley is not a man of a good character—this marine store shop was in the name of Gould, and the person who called himself Gould in the marine store shop was Pooley.

COURT. Q. Did you see Gould there? A. No, I never saw him at the marine store shop—they had not been in the shop above a week—the prisoner passed in the shop by the name of Gould; the landlord told me that was the name—I had known her in Islington, about six months before she was taken; she passed there in the name of Payne—they were living there nearly two years—I cannot remember the name of the place I had known her at before—I had known her by the name of Pooley, and she bore a good character—Townsend is brother to the man Pooley.

MR. DOYLE. to JOHN DENDY., Q. Did you search the marine store shop, Np. 23, Camden Street? A. Yes—I found in the bed room some men's wearing apparel—the bed was not made, it was all in confusion; there was male and female clothing—I had been searching for Ann Gould for five weeks.


GOULD— GUILTY . of receiving.— Confined Eighteen Months.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-995
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

Related Material

995. DAVID REEDY (18) , Feloniously cutting and wounding James Purcell, with intent to do him some grievous bodily harm.

MR. DOYLE. conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS FOGARTY . I am a labourer. I was at work at Lambeth on 10th June, with Purcell; after we left work we went to a beer shop, and the prisoner came in—we played at skittles, and had some beer; then five of us went out together; the prisoner was one—some quarrel took place between him and Purcell, and Purcell shoved him down; the prisoner said he should suffer for that before night—he came up, and Purcell did the same again—we were talking, and the prisoner held up his hand—I did not see any knife—I came up, and said, "What is the matter, Purcell?"—he said, "I am done for!" and he put his two hands to the knife in his face, and pulled it out—he was falling down—I had not seen them both on the ground—Purcell did not fall, because I caught him—I was walking behind them—I saw the prisoner draw his hand, but I did not see there was any knife—I was not so close that I could see the hand go to his face.

MICHAEL SHEA . I was with the last witness—I saw the prisoner and Purcell quarrelling—Purcell knocked him down—the prisoner got up, and Purcell pressed him against some railings, and tried to press his weight against him, and he said to Purcell, "I am done; I want no more to do with you"—Purcell knocked him down, and he got up, and pulled his cap off, and chucked it down, and Purcell said, "When my two sons grow up they shall fight you for me"—Purcell caught him again, and knocked his head against the fence—I saw the pensioner had a knife, but I did not see him stick him with it.

COURT. Q. Was not this what is called rough play? A. I do not know—he caught him by the collar of his waistcoat, and swung him round, and he caught him a second time and whirled him round, and chucked him down in the road on his back—they were drunk at the time.

GUILTY . of unlawfully Wounding.— Confined Twelve Months.

Before Mr. Justice Crompton.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-996
VerdictNot Guilty > non compos mentis
SentenceImprisonment > insanity

Related Material

996. JAMES PRESTON (64) was indicted for, and charged on the downer's Inquisition with, the wilful murder of John Hodges.

MR. ROBINSON. conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN KEENE . I am the governor of the County Gaol for Surrey, at Horsemonger Lane, in the parish of Newington. I had a person named John Hodges in the gaol—I think he had been in the gaol about a fortnight or three weeks from the time he was first remanded—he was in custody on a charge of felony—Preston had been in the gaol since the early part of June last—he was there for debt—he was in the infirmary for some time—he was placed there because he was supposed to be insane—the symptoms were a great depression of spirits—he was placed there so that he might be watched, by order of the surgeon—there is an order from the surgeon to that effect entered in the books—I saw the prisoner on Saturday, 5th Sept.; he appeared to be in his usual state—he had never exhibited violence of any bid—I considered him perfectly harmless, although insane he had been in that same ward for about a fortnight, I think—I was told that he had represented to the surgeon that he was subject to fits—he appeared in good health—a person named Todman was also there—Samuel Sowerby, another prisoner, was appointed to wait on these three—there were these four in that infirmary all day Sunday—about 4 o'clock on Monday morning I was aroused by the night watchman—in consequence of that I went to the room where these persons were confined—I found Sowerby, and a prisoner, who was brought up by one of the warders from a room below, holding Preston, who was Sitting on his own bed—he appeared to be in a very excited state indeed—I perceived Hodges lying on his bed, with a large wound on his head, and one of the men, I cannot say which it was, said, "Preston, sir, has struck him with a pail"—Preston's reply was, "He has seduced my wife"—his wife used to visit him—there could not have been any conversation at all between the deceased and her—Hodges was sixty-seven years of age—I saw the pail, and gave it in charge to Gibbs, the officer—I saw marks of blood on it—when I went up and saw Hodges, I believed him to be dead—I sent for Mr. Ebsworth, the surgeon, who attended in five minutes, and pronounced him dead—on Tuesday, 8th Sept., I had some conversation with the prisoner—I was present with one or two of the Magistrates—he first asked the question, "Is the man dead?"—he was told, "Yes," and he said, "I can't tell why I did it the devil must have possessed" or "tempted me, for he was always very kind to me."

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. He was under your observation, I believe, during the whole time he was in prison? A. He was—he was in gaol about three months altogether before this affair—I never had a doubt but what he was insane—he appeared to be very depressed in his spirits: be appeared frequently to mutter incoherent words to himself—nothing else that I know of induced me to believe him insane.

SAMUEL SOWEREY . (a prisoner.) I was placed in the infirmary ward at Horsemonger Lane Gaol to watch the other three prisoners—I was there on Sept. 6th—there were four persons in the room, and five beds—I slept at one end; the next person to me was Hodges, but there was a bed between—there was another unoccupied bed between him and Preston, who was next—Todman was on the other side, opposite Preston, at the farther part of the room from me—Todman was about ten feet, I should say, from Preston, on the other side of the room—I went to bed at 7 o'clock on the Sunday night, and the other three went about the same time—I went to

sleep, and woke about 12 o'clock, in consequence of a dream I had—I got out of bed, and struck a light—whilst doing that, Hodges awoke, and said something to me—the other two were then asleep, apparently—I went to bed again, and went to sleep—I left a light burning—about 4 o'clock I awoke again, of my own accord I fancy, and I heard a kind of dripping noise; at the same time I saw Preston carrying a pail towards the water closet—he was by the water closet door, going in—he went in with the pail and came out again immediately without it, and sat by his bed side—he was not dressed, only in his shirt—I could not see Hodges then—I thought all was not right, and I knocked on the floor with the heel of my boot, and Gibbs, a warder, came up—we pricked the lamp up, to get more light; it was an oil lamp—I then saw Hodges—he was lying on his left side on the bed, and blood was coming from his head—Gibbs and another man from below went and took hold of Preston—he was sitting on his bed—when he came away from putting the pail into the closet, he came and sat on the bed side—I do not remember what he said—he appeared to be in an excited state—he required holding—I had seen the pail in the course of the Sunday, in the closet—there was no blood on it then—I saw it again after the lamp was pricked up—I noticed there was blood on it then—Todman remained in bed during the whole time—he was not able to get up.

JAMES TODMAN . (a prisoner.) I recollect sleeping in the infirmary ward on Sunday, 6th Sept.—I knew Hodges—in the course of the night I saw Preston get out of his bed, and go away into the closet, and take the bucket up, and then he came out, and walked round by the side of his own bed; then he went between the spare bed and Hodges', and then I saw him job the pail down so (with two hands); he did it violently four or five times—he was then close to where Hodges was lying—this (produced) is the pail.

WILLIAM HENRY GIBBS . I am a turnkey at the infirmary. I was called up on Monday morning, 6th Sept., a few minutes before 4 o'clock—when I got there, I first saw the witness Sowerby, and then Hodges, who was lying on his left side across the bed, with his head hanging over, and blood running from it—I saw Preston sitting on his bed, in his shirt—he was quiet when I went into the room, until I lit the lamp; then he became violent, in consequence of which I and somebody eke held him down—I had locked him up the previous night—I had seen him for three month previously to that—I always thought he was of unsound mind—he went about the yard using very wild expressions at times—he appeared at other times in a very low and melancholy state—he said it was a wooden dolly when he saw the deceased lying on his bed—he said he had seduced his wife, and he did it, and it served him right—I took charge of the pail, and have produced it—I noticed some blood and a few gray hairs on it.

ALFRED EBSWORTH . I am a surgeon, living at No. 11, Trinity Street On Monday, Sept. 7th, I was called to Horsemonger Lane, about 4 o'clock in the morning—I saw Hodges, the deceased—he was quite dead—I examined his head, and found a severe contusion over the eye, on the left side; and that side of the head, over the left temple, appeared to be beaten in—there was also a laceration on that side in the same place—there was some arterial blood dripping from the ear—in my judgment those wounds were caused by some heavy instrument being used on the head of the deceased—this pail is such a thing as would be very likely indeed to do it—it would be several blows—I should say that the death of Hodges was caused by those wounds—I saw Preston there—I had not seen him before that.

WILLIAM TIFFIN ILIFF . I had been attending at the gaol, as surgeon, for sixteen days before Sept. 7th, in consequence of the absence of Mr. Harris, on leave—I had seen Preston every day during that time—I considered him of unsound mind from the first—I had had communications with Mr. Harris about him previously, about orders in the Surgeon's Journal—he was in the infirmary in accordance with those orders—I thought him of unsound mind—he was continually muttering to himself, and had an idea that an operation was to be performed on him against his will—that was the chief thing—he was exceedingly low and depressed, and hardly ever looked up—I considered him entirely harmless.

Cross-examined. Q. I believe as early as June you believed him to be decidedly in an unsound state of mind? A. On June 7th, there is an entry in the Surgeon's Journal to that effect; I did not see him then—I am decidedly of opinion that at the time this unhappy deed was committed he was labouring under such a disease of the mind as to render him incapable of distinguishing between right and wrong.

COURT. Q. Do you come to that judgment from his want of capacity, as being idiotic, or from delusions, or what kind of madness do you call it? A. I should call it melancholia, with delusions—from seeing and talking to him I am satisfied that he was in a state, from disease of mind, not to know right from wrong.

JOHN ROWLAND GIBSON . I am the surgeon of the gaol of Newgate. This man has been under my observation from the time he was committed here, until the present day—I have heard the evidence given here to-day—I have conversed with him for the purpose of ascertaining his state of mind—I have had considerable experience of cases of diseases of the mind for many years—I think that this man was not in a state of mind to know the nature and quality of the act which he committed.

NOT GUILTY . on the ground of insanity.— Ordered to be detained during Her Majesty's pleasure.

14th September 1857
Reference Numbert18570914-997
VerdictMiscellaneous > postponed

Related Material

997. ANTONIO DE SALVI (29) was indicted for the wilful murder of Robert Henderson Robertson (See page 568).

MR. EDWIN JAMES ., Q. C. (with MR. SERJEANT PARRY. and MR. M'MAHON.), for the prisoner, put in a plea of autrefois acquit; and, upon the application of MR. BODKIN.,

the case was postponed until the next Session, to give time for the Prosecution to decide in what way to meet the plea.


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