Old Bailey Proceedings.
17th August 1857
Reference Number: t18570817

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Old Bailey Proceedings front matter.
17th August 1857
Reference Numberf18570817

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A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoner's age.


OLD COURT.—Monday, August 17th, 1857.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the First Jury.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-818
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment

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818. CHARLES HARRISON (36), ROGER DURANT (27), and RYDER DURANT (29), were indicted for stealing, on 6th May, 5cwt. 3qrs. 5 lbs. of sugar, and 21 pieces of paper; the goods of Thomas Cooper and another, the masters of Harrison.—2nd COUNT., for stealing, on 22nd May, 11 cwt. and 3 lbs. of sugar, and 41 pieces of paper.—Other COUNTS., for receiving.

MR. BODKIN. Conducted the Prosecution.

FREDERICK BEHLING . I am warehouse clerk to Messrs. Bruschner and Henrichson, sugar refiners, St. George's in the East. On 6th May I delivered to Johnson's cart twenty tittlers, or loaves of sugar; this (produced) is the order upon which I delivered them—it was brought by one of Johnson's carmen, as far as I know; I did not take it in myself; I was at the scale—I delivered the tittlers according to this order—they were part of a quantity, belonging to Messrs. Cooper and Co., that we had in our warehouse.

MR. METCALFE. Q. How do you know that? by the books? A. Yes—I have the book here that they were delivered from, where I entered the weight—I know these were Messrs. Cooper's sugars—they were bought by them from our house—I had nothing to do with selling them.

MR. BODKIN. Q. Did you know, as one of the clerks there, that that sugar belonged to Messrs. Cooper? A. Yes—I know Harrison's handwriting—this is his signature to the order—(This was an order upon

Bruschner and Co. for the delivery of 5cwt. 3qrs. and 3lbs. of sugar, marked "T. J. L.," from Cooper and Co., signed "C. Harrison")—I delivered twenty tittlers, weighing 5cwt. 3qrs. 3lbs—I have not got the weight note here—(William Thomas Rothwell, clerk to Messrs. Humphreys, solicitors for the prosecution, proved the service upon the prisoners of a notice to produce, among other papers, two weight notes, for twenty tittlers on 6th May, and forty on 22nd May)—I sent a weight note to Cooper and Co., after the delivery of the twenty tittlers—they were marked "J. L."—on 26th June I went to Chamberlain's Wharf, Southwark—I there saw three tittlers that I recognized as part of those I had delivered on the 6th; they had the initials "J. L."—they had on the white cover in which they went from us, and a blue paper over it; that blue paper had been put on since I saw them—the number "11" was on the bottom of each of the tittlers that I sent—it was on the sugar, and on the paper too—the three I saw at Chamberlain's Wharf had the number scraped out, except that one was more intelligible than the other—the number was still on the white paper as I had left it.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. (for Harrison). Q. Were you present at the sale to Messrs. Cooper? A. No; I was about the premises—we refine and sell for ourselves—when my master is not there, I sell sometimes, but he happened to be there on this occasion, and he sold them himself—when they are sold, they are packed out according to the samples that we have on show—we sell by sample, and deliver accordingly—the sugar is always on the premises when we sell it—we never sell and then give orders to our consignors—when sugar is sold, it is not packed out until a delivery order comes—we always give a contract note when we sell—we keep a duplicate of it.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. (with MR. GENT., for Roger Durant). Q. Is it not the custom to pack the tittlers in blue paper when they are sent into the country? A. Yes—sometimes they go in white paper, but more often in blue—I never knew the marks on the tittlers to be rubbed out—I never did it, or knew it done—we are not connected with the retail trade—sugar is sometimes sold when in the course of manufacture; that was not the case with this; it has not been the case at the house where I am, but it has been the case at other houses—when the tittlers are manufactured, they are put by in the warehouse, each filling by itself; there are so many to a filling, and each filling stands by itself, and each day's work by itself—when a certain quantity is purchased, they are set apart for the purchasers, and they send for them as they want them—they are set apart before they are sold—we do not sell less than a whole filling generally.

COURT. Q. Is the whole portion set apart for the buyer when he buys? A. Yes—there is a particular portion which belongs to A B or C D from the time he buys it, and it is delivered upon his orders.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. (for Ryder Durant). Q. The mark you speak of is on the base of the tittler, is it not? A. Yes—they would not get rubbed or made dirty by being moved about the warehouse—they are wrapped in paper—they are not wrapped up the moment they are completed—they are knocked out of the moulds one day, and are papered the next—the marks are put on while they are in the mould—if the bottoms get dirty they would be re-scraped, but they would not get dirty; they are concave—this is one (produced)—the bottom does not come in contact with the ground at all—the "11" means the day's work—they are numbered according to the day's work—there is a trace of the "11" at the bottom of this—it is made with a hook.

THOMAS SHARPE . I am in the employment of Mr. Johnson, a carman, in Axe Yard, Milton Street On 6th May, I was in Aldermanbury with my master's cart—Ryder Durant came to me there, and said he wanted a cart to go and fetch 10 cwt. of sugar—he said he had been up to my master's, and he had said I was to go with him, he told me to go into Bishopsgate Street, at the corner of Wormwood Street, and he would meet me—I went there, and he came to me—he got into the cart, and told me to go to Wellclose Square—I went to a sugar house there—I do not know the name—Durant had a paper in his hand which he gave into the warehouse, and the sugar was handed out to me in the cart—it was in white paper—I am not sure how many packages there were—there were over twenty—I then drove to Great Alie Street, and received some more sugar there—I then went to Durant's warehouse, in Lillypot Lane—Ryder Durant told me where to go to—he did not go with me—he left me in Alie Street—when I got to Lillypot Lane, Ryder Durant was there—the sugar was all delivered there.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. He stood at the warehouse door, did he not, while the sugar was being placed in the cart? A. Yes; some part of the time—he went up to the door of the warehouse with me—it was about three in the afternoon—I had never seen him before—I had carted for Durant before, to the same place in Lillypot Lane—when we left the sugar warehouse Ryder Durant walked alongside of the cart until we got to Alie Street—he went in and delivered the order in Alie Street, and after he came out the goods were delivered to me—I am in the habit of driving this cart for Mr. Johnson—we generally have the management of the order ourselves unless the purchasers go with us.

THOMAS COOPER . I am a wholesale grocer and tea dealer in Monument Yard; I have one partner. Harrison was in my employment from 1851, as a kind of foreman porter in the fruit and refined floor—the sugar would be in his department—I had made a purchase of a large quantity of sugar of Bruschner and Co., previous to 5th May—the contract was in writing—this is the contract note (produced)—I purchased 883 tittlers—when we purchase we leave the tittlers in the refiner's hands until we want them—it would be Harrison's duty to write orders for them, as they were sold—he had nothing to do with the selling—I have the delivery order book here (produced)—these orders are printed with blanks, and with counterfoils—it would be his duty to write the order, filling in the blanks, and to fill in the counterfoil to correspond—this produced is one of the forms—there is no counterfoil corresponding with it—there is a counterfoil bearing the same number—this is in Harrison's writing—(this, being read, was an order for raisins)—this does not refer to any transaction for sugar—there is nothing that corresponds with the tittlers in the counterfoil—I attend to the business myself—I had given no authority for any such order as this, the goods not being sold—if this had been a regular transaction it would have been Harrison's duty to make an entry in his warehouse book previous to writing the order—I have the warehouse book here—I have searched it—I find no entry at all of the transaction to which this order refers—Roger Durant was in my service from Oct., 1854, till 2nd March, 1857—he would have an opportunity of becoming acquainted with our course of business—he gave notice to leave, and left on his own account—during the time he was in our service we had a customer of the name of Mitchell—Roger Durant introduced his name to our firm as a customer—his place of business was first in Noble Street, and then in Lillypot Lane—when Roger Durant was about to leave our service, I asked him who this Mitchell was; he said he

was a respectable person—I then pressed him further as to who he was, and he said he was a brother-in-law, or a distant relation; I asked him what distant relation he was; he said he had married a sister of his; I said, "Then the distant relation is a brother-in-law?"—I made an entry that we had a reference at the time; we have a book in which entries are made of references given by customers (produced)—this entry is in Roger's writing: "Wm. Mitchell, of Lillypot Lane, refers us to Messrs. Saunders, Cannon Street, who inform us, since he has dealt with them he has always paid regularly, and from what they have seen of him, they believe him to be a respectable man"—that is dated 2nd March, 1857—that was the day he left—he had told me some time previously that he had got a reference—I requested him to make the entry, and I refused to settle with him that day until he had made it—he did not make it in my presence, he brought it to me with the entry made.

CHARLES JAMES DANCE . I am in the employment of Messrs. Saunders, stationers, of Cannon Street. I know Ryder Durant, but not by that name, I have always known him as Mitchell—he has had dealings with our house in that name; I did not know him previous to that—he lived in Lillypot Lane—I do not manage Messrs. Saunders's business, Mr. Saunders does himself—I am in the warehouse—I do not know of any reference to our house for his character—I never heard him called by any other name than Mitchell.

Cross-examined by MR. SEBJEANT PARRY. Q. What is your position in the house? A. Clerk and warehouseman—there are three clerks and a head clerk—there are two other partners, Mr. Dalton and Mr. Dyott.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did you ever go to Lillypot Lane? A. No—I did not see any of his business cards—I have not seen cards with Durant on one side, and Mitchell on the other—the business was carried on under the name of Mitchell and Co.—I have known the Durants to be in partnership.

EMILY PORTER . My husband lives at No. 3, Lillypot Lane. I let apartments to Ryder Durant, in Noble Street—he took them in that name—letters came there sometimes in the name of Mitchell, and parcels with the name of Mitchell or Durant on them, which I have taken in—he used to take them from me—he lived there about six months.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Do you know that Mrs. Durant's father's name is Mitchell? A. I did not know it at the time, but I know it to. be the fact now—my husband is a painter, he did no business for Ryder Durants—I do not know that Mr. Mitchell gave his authority to the Durants to use his name in business—I do not know Mr. Mitchell—I remember now that my husband did write Mr. Durant's name up as licensed to sell tea and coffee.

PETER MOSSOP . I am a clerk, in the employment of Elers and Co., of Goodman's Fields, sugar refiners. On 22nd May I received this order (produced)—it was brought by Johnson's cart—I wrote something on it, and returned it to the person who brought it—he afterwards brought it back to me—Harrison accompanied him—I know Harrison's handwriting—I believe this is his signature on the order for the delivery of forty tittlers—I wrote on it, "Please say blue or white paper"—he said, "Always deliver goods in white paper, unless we say 'blue' on the order"—at that time we had a quantity of sugar tittlers, the property of Cooper and Co.—I delivered the forty tittlers in white paper—(The order for forty tittlers, marked "R. A. T" and signed "C. Harrison")—the mark "R. A. T." was on the white paper, and on the bottom of the sugar loaves

themselves was "85," with a stroke under it—we prepare a weight note on these occasions, after weighing—we gave Mr. Cooper's weight note to Harrison, and the carman's weight note was put into the scale—the note that I gave Harrison, was for forty tittlers, marked "R. A. T." and "85"—I have since been to Chamberlain's Wharf, and seen about thirty tittlers there, which I believe to be part of what I delivered on that day—I found the marks "R. A. T." on them—I examined the bottoms of them; there were no marks at all there—they had the appearance of having been scraped or rubbed—there was then blue paper over the white—on 19th May I delivered two lots of fifty tittlers from Mr. Cooper's stock, and sent them to Mr. Cooper's—this note of those two parcels is in my handwriting—there has been a "40" added to it—that is not in my handwriting, nor written by my authority—I know nothing at all about it—I do not know whose handwriting it is.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. You say there were some sugars there belonging to Mr. Cooper, how do you know that? A. I have them entered in the book myself—I was not present at the sale—I entered them from the contract note—there is a contract in all these cases—when they are Bold in that way, they are put into the warehouse by themselves—if we sell to a great number of persons, a sufficient quantity of sugar is set apart to cover all the orders—we separate them at the time of sale—we do not sell a portion of a lot, we sell all or none—we do not break bulk—the customer afterwards sends an order for the whole or a portion, as he may want it—if we send them into the country, we send them in blue paper—we never sell them in blue.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. What is the meaning of the letters "R. A. T.?" A. That is the mark put on for the party in the country; his initials, "R. A.," and "T." for the name of the town—I found that mark on them afterwards—it was put on the white paper—the "85" mark was rubbed out—I am not aware that it is sometimes the practice to erase the wholesale marks—I do not know that if a party sells a lot of sugar by sample, and he has not enough to make the order, that he sends other of the same quality, but erases the marks—I know of no such transaction.

MR. BODKIK. Q. Where do you get the letters "R. A. T." from? A. From the order—you will find those letters at the corner of the delivery order—that was our instruction, to mark them in that way—this is a copy of the weight note that was given to Harrison when these goods were delivered—they were going to Robert Attwell, of Torquay.

ROBERT STEWART . I am carman to Mr. Johnson. On 22nd May I went to Elers and Morgan's with my cart; a party went with me—I cannot say positively which of the Durants it was; it was one of them—I believe it was Roger—I did not take any notice of him—the party that went with me jumped out of the cart at Elers and Morgan's, and left me there—I expect he went into the warehouse—I stopped there, and he came round, and said that he must leave me for a while, as he had to go into the City—I expect it was the same man—I expect he came back again in about three-quarters of an hour—he went into the refiner's, and came out again, and said, "When it comes to your turn, you are to load"—I think I was the last—forty tittlers were put into the cart—I took them to Durant's, in Lillypot Lane—the party that went with me told me to take them there—I think he was standing at the tail of the cart when the tittlers were being put in—I cannot say what became of him afterwards—he

left me—I delivered the forty tittlers at Lillypot Lane—Blatch, the porter, took them in—I did not see anything more of the man I have spoken of—on the 26th I went to Lillypot lane again with my cart—I think Mr. Johnson ordered me to go—I received, I think, thirty-nine tittlers—Blatch was there then—I took them to Chamberlain's Wharf, Tooley Street—Blatch told me to take them there—I did then not see the man that I had seen on the previous occasion—I am still in Mr. Johnson's employment.

HENRY FREDERICK BLATCH . I live at No. 8, Ponsonby Place, Vauxhall Bridge Road. I am in the employ of the two Durants, in Lillypot Lane—I know Harrison; I have seen him there—I went into the service in Nov. last—they carried on the business of wholesale grocers—I was there on 22nd May when forty tittlers of sugar were brought by Johnson's cart—I assisted in unloading them—they were placed in the warehouse—Ryder Durant was there at the time—I did not notice whether any invoice came with them—they were in white paper—part of them were afterwards removed to Chamberlain's Wharf—I cannot say the exact number—they were placed with some other tittlers that were in the warehouse—I think thirty-five of them went to Chamberlain's Wharf—I believe I was there when twenty came on 6th May—I cannot say whether any of those went with the thirty-five—I directed the carman where to take them—Ryder Durant had desired me to do so—I do not know where Roger Durant was at this time—I went with them to Chamberlain's Wharf—two packed bags were also taken, containing sundry articles of grocery—they were directed to R. Attwell, No. 95, Lower Union Street, Torquay; 25: 5: 57 (looking at a card)—this is Roger Durant's writing—I did not see him write it—I put it on the bag; it lay on the counter—I cannot say who put it there—Roger Durant was there that day, and he was there when I went away with the things—both of them were—the sugars were directed "R. A.," with a "T." under it—one of them was directed the same as the card—I was directed to put the card on the bag by one of the Durants; I cannot say which, they were both there—I believe they were partners in this concern—I attended the first examination at Guildhall on 10th June—Ryder Durant said something to me after that about the partnership—he said he was going to be a working partner—he was saying so to some friends there, he was not addressing me particularly—I heard it—what he said was, that he was going to be a working partner with his brother—that was before I had been examined, I believe; I cannot recollect—I remember asking for an alteration to be made in my evidence after that had been said to me, so it must have been after I was examined—it was in consequence of that being said that I requested to alter my evidence—I took a receiving note with me to Chamberlain's Wharf—this (produced) is it—one of the Durants gave it me, I cannot say which—(This was a bill headed, "Debtor to W. Mitchell, No. 5, Lillypot Lane" on one side, and at the back, "R. Durant and Co.")—when I first went there the name of Mitchell was over the warehouse—Ryder Durant went by the name of Mitchell—I have since heard of a person of that name—I did not see such a person in Lillypot Lane—orders that came there in the name of Mitchell were executed by the Durants—when the forty tittlers came they were stacked up—I believe Ryder Durant assisted in doing it—before they went to Chamberlain's Wharf I put a blue paper on them, by Ryder Durant's order—nothing else was done to them—they were removed from the scale ready for me to put the paper on in the morning when I came there—Mr.

Durant said they were ready for me to put the paper on—they were then on the warehouse floor—I put it on—Ryder Durant said, "We have cleaned the bottoms off, and they cannot swear to them now"—I cannot say when it was that he said that—I saw Harrison on 29th May—he came to the warehouse and asked to see Roger Durant—he was not there—he asked if Mr. Ryder was there, and I said they were both out—the tittlers were tied with string after the blue paper was put on—I did most of them—Roger Durant put the string round a few of them—after Harrison was taken into custody I asked Ryder Durant if he knew anything was wrong about those sugars, and he said, "Of course I did."

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. You say you knew Ryder Durant as Mitchell? A. Yes—the business was carried on in that name for five or six months while I was there, and in the name of Durant and Co. two months before I left—the name of Mitchell was up for some time after Roger Durant left Mr. Cooper's—then it was painted out, and "R. Durant and Co." put up—they dealt with Messrs. Coopers—I believe they had dealings with them besides these two lots—I have not seen Mr. Cooper there—I have seen Harrison there, and I have seen Mr. Cooper's servants bring goods there—I have been ten or eleven years in the grocery trade—I never saw the marks rubbed off sugar before—it is usual to pack sugars in blue papers when they go into the country, it is the ordinary way—the mark "R. A. T." was put outside on the blue paper—Roger Durant was not constantly out of town, he was sometimes travelling for orders.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. I believe Ryder Durant principally attended in the shop, did he not? A. Yes, and Roger took the management of the business principally—he used to buy—Ryder did nothing more than assist in the shop, and sell—we had an order from Mr. Attwell, of Torquay, at the time these forty tittlers came—we were not able to execute it all with sugars of the same sample, and were obliged to put in a few tittlers of another make—no one could tell whether they were the same if the marks were taken out, if the quality was the same—the marks were scratched out for that express purpose—Ryder Durant did not say, "Now that we have taken off the maker's mark, they will not know that they are not all the same sample"—I cannot swear to the words now—that would be the effect, of course—I may have made a mistake is the words that Ryder Durant said about being the working partner—I do not recollect hearing him say that he was not the working partner, and that he did not know that there was anything wrong about them—I said to him, "Did you know there was anything wrong about the sugars?" and he said, "Of course I did;" he added, "but I had no idea of it then"—what I asked him was, "Did you know anything was wrong about those sugars?"—his answer was, "Of course I did"—I do not recollect any more—I have heard that Mr. Mitchell is the father of Ryder Durant's wife—I do not know that he had Mitchell's permission to carry on the business in his name—the name of Mitchell and the name of Durant were indifferently used in the business.

MR. BODKIN. Q. What name was over the door when you first went into the service? A. W. Mitchell—that remained for between five and six months, and then the name of R. Durant and Co. was put up—that was afterwards painted out, and the name of Mitchell put back again; but the name of Durant still remains over the door—the licence is in the name of Mitchell—I think I have seen it on the file.

THOMAS COOPER . re-examined. On 19th May I purchased 803 tittlers of

Elers and Co.—they remained on their premises in the same way that the others did at Bruschner's, until we had orders for them—this order (produced) has Harrison's signature; the filling up is his, all except the cross—the "R. A. T." in the left hand corner indicate the initials of the party to whom the sugar is to be sent, and the name of the town—one of the packages would be marked in full, and the others only with the initials—Mitchell was a customer of ours while Durant was with us—after he left us there was an order taken, and they wished to open an account with us—I said I could not open any account with him without having a reference in the usual course—I believe this was in April; afterwards, a young man at our counter said that Mitchell was a respectable party, and he would be answerable for the payment in a few days, and upon that I let them go, on the understanding that that was to be the only transaction—I see by the books they have had three or four others, amounting to 60l. odd—that has been the extent of their dealings—I was not aware of that until after I found them entered—the figures "40" on this weight note appear to be an imitation of the other figures—there is no counterfoil in the order book agreeing with that—it was Harrison's duty to enter an order of that sort in the warehouse book before he sent the delivery order for the goods—I have looked in the warehouse book—there is no such entry there, or in any of the books—the entry on this counterfoil is, "Clark and Co. paid duty on ten barrels of raisins."

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. How do you know that that is the counterfoil of that particular order? A. the number—I have compared them—I have Harrison's warehouse book here, and there is a receiving book—he has entered these forty tittlers as having received them from the refiners—they were a portion of the 803—similar weights are entered in the refining book—there is no entry of the goods having been sold, only the purchase, and in the receiving book as having been actually received—this forty is a separate entry under the head of 25th May—this is a counting house book, for each party to make their own entry in—I cannot say that I examine this book from time to time, one of our clerks does that—he examines the entries with the refiner's invoice to show that they are received—the fifty are entered as received by Stevens, one of our men—he would receive them from the party bringing them, and place them in the ware-house on Harrison's floor—the entry is not compared with the actual goods—the object of this book is to know what we have had, and what the residue is at the refiner's—if a person wanted to purchase forty tittlers he would go to Box, our salesman—he would enter them on a slip of paper, which would be given to our delivery clerk—that was at that time a man named Harding—he has since left us—Harding would give it to Harrison—these are printed orders—the signature of the firm is printed, and Harrison signs his own name—he fills them up as they are required—I find no counterfoil corresponding with this order—I never filled up one counterfoil in mistake for another—it is not the practice to leave several to be filled up at once—I have never done so with cheques, I could not keep my accounts if I did—I fill the counterfoil up before the cheque is cut out—myself and my brother are the only drawers of cheques—I cannot say how many orders are given in the course of the day, I do not keep the books; I should say they rarely exceeded eight or ten—the custom is the same when parties pay cash at the counter—it would be taken to Roger Durant when he was there, and after he left to a person of the name of Warrior—he has since left—they would take it to Harrison—he would enter it in his book, and fill up the order

for the delivery—that Is for quantities under 5 cwt—the refiners will not deliver less than 5 cwt.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Roger Durant was in a different department to Harrison? A. He was at the ready money counter—he gave us notice to leave—he did not inform me that he was going into business—he said he was going into the country—he afterwards asked for credit, and I refused it—we use blue paper to pack our loaves in when we have occasion to use a second paper—I never knew an instance of marks being erased in my establishment—it would be without my knowledge, and I should say it was a thing never done—these tittlers are of two parties' make, and are of different height—they vary in weight.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIQH. Q. Did not you know that the Durants were carrying on business in Lillypot Lane? A. Not until the application was made to me.

MR. BODKIN. Q. You say that orders are given over the counter for cash? A. Yes—if under 5 cwt, they are executed from our own ware-house—they would be delivered by Harrison—I have carefully looked through the whole of the counterfoils remaining in the book—there is no entry of the transaction of these twenty on 6th May, or the forty on the 22nd—for the purpose of executing orders under 5 cwt, we bring from the refiner's a certain portion of goods to our own warehouse, and we always keep a certain stock for that purpose—goods so brought would be entered in the receiving book—this entry made by Harrison indicates that these two lots of fifty tittlers were brought to our warehouse.

ALFRED MARTIN BOX . I am salesman to Mr. Cooper. I purchased this lot at Elers and Co.

HENRY WEBB . I am one of the detective officers of the City of London. Harrison was taken into custody en this charge on 29th May—on the following day I went to Durants' place, in Lillypot Lane—I saw Ryder Durant, and asked him if he was Mr. Durant—he said, "Yes"—I asked him which, Mr. Ryder or Mr. Roger; he said, "Mr. Ryder"—I asked him when Mr. Roger would be there; he said he did not know, for he was at Plymouth—I then told him that I and Scott, who was with me, were detective officers, and we should like to speak to him; he then asked us into a back room, and I asked him to show us the invoice of the last transaction that he had with Mr. Cooper, of Monument Yard—he went into the front shop, and brought out one of Mr. Cooper's invoices for some tea—I then told him I wanted to see the file; he went into the front shop, and brought in a file containing a number of invoices—Scott then said, "We want to see the invoices of the transactions yon have had with Mr. Cooper for tittlers"—he said, "We have not had any tittlers of Mr. Cooper; we have had our tittlers of sugar from Mr. Turnbull"—he produced one number of Mr. Turnbull's invoices for sugar—I said, "Perhaps you will show me the invoices of the transactions you have had with Harrison for tittlers"—he said, "My brother is the buyer, and I do not know what transactions he has with Harrison"—I said, "Why, you are in partnership with your brother?"—he said, "Yes, I am, I have been in partnership three or four weeks, and if you like I can show you the partnership deeds"—I told him I did not want to see the deeds, but I said, "As you are in partnership with your brother, if he has bought any tittlers, or had any transactions with Harrison, your books will show it, and you would have invoices"—he said, "Certainly; but I know there is no entry in our books of any transactions with Harrison for tittlers"—he then said that he would write to his brother by the next mail, and we were to call on the Monday

morning—I did call on the following Monday, and saw him—he said he had had no answer—he then opened a book at the counter, and said, "Harrison owes us 60l. "—I called on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, and on Friday Scott and I called, and he said he had not heard—I told him it was very curious that he had not heard at all, and he said, "Well now, Mr. Webb, what is it you want with my brother?"—I said, "The ends of justice require that I should see him, to put a few questions to him"—he said, "Well, the fact of it is, if you want him, you must go and find him"—I noticed the name of Roger Durant and Co. over the door in Lillypot Lane at this time—I went on 16th June, and that name was then erased, and the name of William Mitchell put—I produce two letters, which I received from Chamberlain's Wharf.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Do you always make it a practice to cross-examine persons whom you are about to charge with any offence? A. I did not cross-examine him—I asked him a straightforward question—I consider that my questions were straightforward—Roger Durant eventually came to the Mansion House voluntarily, with his brother—they were summoned as witnesses—I served the summons—it was not by my advice that they were summoned as witnesses—they were not given into custody the moment they entered the Court—they did not give evidence—Roger Durant was not sworn—some evidence was given before they were given into custody—it was on the first day that they came into Court that they were given into custody—bail was refused—I had requested Ryder Durant to attend before, but he did not—I could not see Roger—I served the summons at the shop—they do not reside in Lillypot Lane—the house has since been closed, and everything sold.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. You called two or three times at Durants', I believe? A. Five times—I did not see Ryder on the Wednesday—Scott found a telegraphic message in his pocket when he was taken into custody—I saw him the day before he came to Guildhall—he treated me as lightly as he possibly could—he brought out a book—I thought if he was a partner of his brother's, he knew where his brother was—when Harrison was taken into custody, I think Ryder Durant came to the police court, but he went away again before he was called.

MR. BODKIN. Q. When you went and had this conversation with Durant, had you any instructions to take him into custody, or was he charged with any offence?. A. None at all—he attended before the Alderman—it was after Blatch had been examined that they were given into custody—that was by the Magistrate's direction.

GEORGE SCOTT . I am a detective officer of the City. The Durants were given into custody on 17th June—I found on Ryder Durant this telegraphic message—(Read: "13th June, 1857, from Roger Durant and Co., at Dartmouth, to Messrs. Durant and Co., No. 5, Lillypot Lane, near the General Post Office; I will be in town, and at your private residence tomorrow some time; get all books necessary at your own house"—About 30th May, I went with Mr. Mossop to Chamberlain's Wharf—I there found thirty-five tittlers; thirty-two of them were marked "R. A. T." and the other three were marked, "J. L."

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. From any inquiries you made, do you know whether the Durants have a grocery business at Dart-mouth? A. I have made no inquiry.

THOMAS DAVIS . I was formerly in the employ of the Durants in Lillypot Lane. I wrote this letter by the direction of Roger Durant—(This was dated 26th May, 1857, addressed to the superintendent of Chamberlain's

Wharf, requesting him not to ship the goods addressed to R. Attwell, of Torquay, until further orders)—I believe this other letter to be Ryder Durant's writing—(This was dated 7th June, addressed to the same party, directing them to ship the goods in question.)

GEORGE SCOTT . re-examined. That was found on the file at the warehouse in Lillypot Lane—(This was a bill of parcels, headed "R. Attwell, debtor to W. Mitchell," and contained, among other things, 10 cwt. of refined at 68s.)

THOMAS COOPER . re-examined. The value of this sugar was 71s. 6d.—that was what I gave for it—"refined" signifies sugar.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. The price of sugar varies very much, does it not? A. It did not at that time—they are worth more now—the market is advanced.

THOMAS DAVIS . re-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. I was formerly employed at Messrs. Cooper's—I knew Roger Durant there, and before that—altogether I have known him about two and a half years—to the best of my knowledge, he has borne the character of an honourable and respectable young man—I never heard anything against him until this transaction—I continued my intimacy with him after I left Messrs. Cooper's—we visited each other—he introduced me to Ryder Durant, and I also became intimate with him—Mr. Mitchell is the father of Ryder Durant's wife—he is a ship owner—Ryder Durant told me he had his father's permission to carry on the business in his name—he made no concealment of the grounds on which he used the name of Mitchell—I was aware of it about last Aug. or Sept—when Roger Durant left Mr. Cooper's, I think he went out of town for three or four weeks, and when he came back the name of Mitchell was removed, and that of Durant put up.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. I believe you knew Ryder Durant during the whole of the same time? A. From during 1856—I never saw anything to cause me to suspect his dishonesty—he principally attended in the shop.

MR. BODKIN. Q. Were you aware of the change back again to the name of Mitchell after Harrison was taken? A. Not until I was informed of it—that was after they had been arrested.

(MR. METCALFE. submitted that there was no larceny in this case, the goods never having been in the possession of the prosecutor; they had merely been purchased and set apart for him, by the refiners; and, therefore, there was no trespass as against him. See Rex v. Adams, Russell, and Ryan, and Reg. v. Adams, 1 Denison, p. 38. MR. SERJEANT PARRY., also, contended that this was no larceny; if anything, it was an obtaining by false pretences, or by means of a forged order; but he submitted, that neither the property or the possession was in the prosecutor; the goods were lying at the warehouse of the refiner, and he had parted with them on the faith of the false order. See Reg. v. Sollen, Moody, p. 129. MR. GENT. was also heard in support of the objection. The COMMON SERJEANT., having taken time to consider the point, was of opinion that both the property and possession of the goods were in the prosecutor; there had been a complete contract of sale and purchase, and the goods, had been set apart for him in a distinct and separate place in the warehouse of the refiner, which for this purpose must be taken to be the warehouse of the prosecutor; with respect to the second objection, he was of opinion that, as the property had passed from the refiner, there could be no obtaining from him.)

GUILTY. of Larceny.

HARRISON— Six Years Penal Servitude.

ROGER DURANT and RYDER DURANT— Confined Eighteen Months each.

(There was another indictment against the prisoners.)

NEW COURT.—Monday, August 17th, 1857.


Before Michael Prendergast, Esq., Q. C, and the Fifth Jury.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-819
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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819. RICHARD HARLEY (18), Stealing 1 handkerchief, value 2s.; the goods of William Taylor, from his person: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-820
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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820. CHARLES NASH (26) and JOHN WILLIAMS (25), Breaking and entering the shop of David Lewis Williams, and stealing 4 waistcoats, value 20s.; his property: to which

NASH PLEADED GUILTY . Four Years Penal Servitude.


17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-821
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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821. WILLIAM SMITH (25), Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of Joshua Henry Styles, and stealing 2 books, 1 handkerchief, and 1 brush, value 6s.; his property; having been before convicted: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Four Years Penal Servitude.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-822
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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822. JOHN JENNINGS (19), Stealing 8 shillings, the moneys of George Frederick Crutchley, his master: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-823
VerdictGuilty > pleaded part guilty

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823. WILLIAM JONES (28), Breaking and entering the counting house of Henry Eycott Wood, and stealing 1 coat, value 2l.; 1 clock, 2l.; 1 bill of Exchange for 200l.; and 20 other bills; the property of Edward Stanway: he

PLEADED GUILTY. to stealing the property, and no evidence was offered on the breaking and entering. — Confined Eighteen Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-824
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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824. GEORGE FLYNN (25), Stealing 1 pair of trowsers, value 18s. 6d.; the goods of Benjamin Prew: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-825
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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825. JOHN WILLIS (26), Stealing 1 purse and 18l. 6d.; the property of Mary Ann Bullock, from her person.

MR. PLATT. conducted the Prosecution.

MARY ANN BULLOCK . I am a widow, and live in Denmark Row, Camberwell On 30th July I was at the railway station in Fenchurch Street—I had taken two tickets for Margate—I had taken out my purse, which contained a half sovereign and 8s. 6d. after I had paid for the tickets—I am positive I put the money back into my purse, and the purse into my pocket—I was going up the steps to go on the platform—the prisoner came up; he had a wrapper round his arm, and I felt his hand in my pocket—I said to him, "Pray don't push so, you will push me down"—I put my hand into my pocket to feel for my purse, and he took his hand out—I put my hand in, and felt my purse was gone, and I said, "You have got my purse"—this is my purse (produced)—the half sovereign and the silver is in it, and some of my cards—he was close to the balustrade.

Cross-examined by MR. TALFOURD SALTER. Q. Was the prisoner the

only person there? A. No—there were a great many persons on the side of me—I was the nearest person to the rails—on the other side of me was a number of persons—I do not know whether they all heard me say that he had taken my purse; he did, for he was close to me—my nephew got him out of the crowd, and gave him into custody—that was down a few steps—I went up the steps, and went in a different direction—my pocket was on my right side, and the rails were on the left side—mine was an open pocket—there were people before and behind me, perhaps fifty or sixty—I asked a policeman to take the tickets for me—I took the purse out of my pocket to take the tickets, and it remained in my hand till the tickets were brought.

GEORGE SHARPE . I am clerk to a barrister. I lire at Camden Town—I was with the last witness—I followed close behind her—I heard her say to the prisoner, "Oh, you have taken my purse"—I do not think he made any answer immediately, but within a minute afterwards he said, "It is a mistake, I am innocent"—she replied, "I felt your hand in my pocket"—he said that was a mistake—I laid hold of him—he had a railway wrapper over his arm.

Cross-examined. Q. Had you any means of ascertaining whether he had anything the matter with one of his hands? A. I saw he had his hand clenched—he might have had something the matter with it—I think it was the right hand.

COURT. to MARY ANN BULLOCK. Q. Do you know which hand he had in your pocket? A. The left.

HENRY CHATTERTON . I am a porter at the Blackball Railway. I was taking part of the luggage up the stairs—I heard the lady say that she had been robbed, speaking to the prisoner, and the last witness took him, and gave him into custody—I searched about the balustrade rails, and in about five minutes afterwards I found this purse close to where the prisoner was standing.

Cross-examined. Q. How many other persons passed over that spot? A. I cannot say—there was not a number of persons passed during that five minutes, for the train was about starting—I should think it must have been within three minutes of the train starting—every person who passed the check taker must have gone over the same spot.

SAMUEL WALLIS . (City Policeman, 578). At a quarter past 10 o'clock on that morning I was on duty at the railway—the prosecutrix asked me to get her two tickets for Margate, which I did, and in a few minutes she came to me, and said that she had been robbed, and had lost the change I gave her and the purse—when I took the prisoner, he said that he was paralysed, and he was going to Gravesend—his right hand appeared paralysed—that was not the place for him to go to Gravesend—he had no ticket for Gravesend—he had no business there—he could not have gone to Gravesend from there, only to Margate and Herne Bay.

Cross-examined. Q. Did his hand appear to be paralysed? A. It did—I did not examine it—he said that he was paralysed on all one side—the Gravesend train was not going for twenty minutes after that train—persons do crowd up there without having tickets—I found on the prisoner 2s., 8d.—the fare to Gravesend is 1s.

COURT. to MARY ANN BULLOCK. Q. On your oath, is the prisoner the man that had his hand in your pocket? A. I am positive he is the man; I turned and looked at him, and my nephew took him immediately.

GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-826
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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826. MARGARET HANLEY (23), Stealing 1 watch, value 2l.; 1 coat and waistcoat, value 1l.; and 15s., of Albert Basten, in the dwelling house of Edward Lawford, and burglariously breaking out of the same.

ALBERT BASTEN . (through an interpreter). I live at Mr. Edward Lawford's, Victoria Terrace—I met the prisoner at a public house about 10 o'clock at night, on 28th June—there were three or four girls there, they mixed themselves in our company, and there was an old woman there; I think, perhaps, she was the mother—the prisoner spoke very lovingly to me—when we went out we were making love, and I asked her to go and sleep with me at her house—she said, "Yes," very willingly, but she had not got the key of her house to take me home—I said, "I am not going to sleep in the street; I shall not allow you to sleep in the street, you may come and sleep with me if you like"—I went with her, arm in arm, to my own door, in Victoria Terrace—having entered the house, I felt myself tired—the prisoner said she was not well—I gave her a glass of water—she took off her upper dress—I was so fatigued that while undressing myself I tumbled into my bed—the prisoner was then sitting down with a glass of water in her hand—I got up again, and took the key out of the lock of the door, and put it in the pocket of an old coat that was hanging up—the prisoner did not lie down on the bed when I went to bed, she was sitting still—I went to sleep, and I awoke in the morning about 6 o'clock—I looked about, and said, "I had a woman here last night, what has become of her?"—I found my watch was gone, and a coat and waistcoat, and a porte monnaie—I went to my friend, and went with him to the police station, and took a policeman to my house—when I went with the prisoner to my house, my friend Charles was with me—he wished us good night at the door—no other woman went with me to the house—I think I saw the prisoner once afterwards at her mother's, but she hid herself when she saw me—I know the prisoner is the woman—I knew her four or five weeks before—I had nothing to say to her, only shaking hands—after the policeman took her I saw her at the station—I have never said that I believed she was not the woman—I recognised her immediately—I knew her mother after the theft—they were together at the public house that night—the mother had been drinking with us, but I think she had left before we went away—she did not accompany us.

Prisoner. Q. Were you not talking with another young woman? A. It is possible—you and your mother came into the public house after I was there—I changed a sovereign at the public house that evening.

Prisoner. Q. You had another friend with you, a man; and that man gave your son the key to go home? A. Yes; the boy went away, but my friend went away in company with you and I—you did not leave me talking with three other women when you went home with your mother—I swear I had known you before, by shaking hands with you in the tap room of Mr. Smith's public house five or six times.

Jury. Q. You seem to have known her mother, why did you not seek her at her mother's? you said you saw her there one day? A. I was afraid, and, besides, I could not get in—I described her to the police on the following day.

JANE WOOD . I live in Victoria Terrace; the prosecutor lodged in the same house. I did not observe anything on that Saturday night, but on the Sunday morning, between 2 and half past 2 o'clock, I heard the breaking the lock of the door which awoke me, and then I heard a person walking along the passage, and go out and shut the street door, and pass by the window—it

was quite daylight, and I saw it was the prisoner; I am quite sure she is the person—I saw her distinctly, her bonnet was trimmed with blue—she had some bundle under her arm under her shawl, and something black hung down—I saw a pair of scissors on the next morning on the floor of the prosecutor's room, and a broken poker—I knew the prisoner before.

Prisoner. She came to the police station, and there was another young woman there for something, and she asked the prosecutor whether it was me or the other young woman; she did not know which; she has gone by another name; the prosecutor pointed me out to her, and she said at the public house that she was sorry he had not told her more, for she would swear anything; she said her landlady was always finding fault with her for speaking to Basten, but she always would, and she drank with him.

COURT. Q. Did the prosecutor point out the prisoner to you as the person you were to swear to? A. No, because I saw her, and pointed out the ribbon she had on, and her dress—I have gone by another name—I think the prosecutor is a carpenter—I believe he is a pianoforte maker, but he works as a carpenter as well.

COURT. to ALBERT BASTEN. Q. Where was the key in the morning? A. It was still in the pocket.

FRANCIS BASTEN . On that Saturday evening I was at the public house with my father—he was there before me—I saw the prisoner there with him—I went away, and left my father there—I saw the prisoner again, and gave her in charge three weeks after—I told her she was the person who robbed ray father—she said, "It was not me"—I had slept that night in the room with my friend Charles, on other nights I slept with my father—I saw my father again at 6 o'clock the next morning.

Prisoner. Q. Was not your father talking French with another woman, and shaking hands with her? A. I do not know—there were other women there—my father is a carpenter, he works in the Avenue Road—his master's name is Harry, he lives three or four streets from there.

CHARLES CHARLES . I was at the public house on that Saturday night—I came in about 9 o'clock—the prisoner was there, with two other females—the prisoner and the prosecutor left the house together, and I went with them to the house where he lives in Victoria Terrace, and he and she went in together—I saw her go in, and shut the front door—I am very sure indeed that she is the person; I knew her before—the prosecutor was not very sober; he was half and half; he was more tired than drunk—I did not see him change a sovereign.

COURT. to ALBERT BASTEN. Q. What money had you in your purse? A. I had a sovereign, and changed it, and the change of that money she took away—there was about 15s.

WILLIAM POTTS . (Policeman, S 407). The prosecutor's son gave the prisoner into my charge—he said that she had stolen some property—she said that the boy was a very great liar.

Prisoner's Defence. I said he was a young liar; I had left my two children in bed, and went out to market; I went into the public house, and the prosecutor was there talking to some women; he treated them; he changed a sovereign, and had half a pint of gin; I left them at 20 minutes before 12 o'clock; I, and my brother, and mother went away together; I saw the prosecutor no more till he came to the station.

GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

OLD COURT.—Tuesday, Aug. 18th, 1857.

PRESENT—Sir JAMES DUKE ., Bart, M. P., Ald.; Mr. Ald. CARTER.; Mr. Ald.HALE.; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Second Jury.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-827
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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827. GEORGE WITTEN (21) was indicted for burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of Thomas Walker Jubb, and stealing 6s. 1d., his moneys: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .*— Confined Six Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-828
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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828. WILLIAM FREDERICK GARDNER (31), Stealing 86l. 18s., 13l. 10s., and 5l. 18s.; the moneys of Edward Thomas Spencer, his master: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy. — Confined Six Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-829
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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829. GEORGE RICHARD CLARKE (33) was indicted, with ROSA BUSH (See page 321), for unlawfully and by false pretences procuring Elizabeth Harris, a girl of the age of 14, to have illicit carnal connexion with him.

MR. SLEIGH. conducted the Prosecution, and MR. LAWRENCE. the Defence

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-830
VerdictNot Guilty > directed

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830. WILLIAM BAKER and JAMES MEDLER , Stealing, on 27th July, 36 trusses of hay; the goods of Charles Webster.

MR. POLAND. conducted the Prosecution,

WILLIAM TINSON . I live at Cowley Manor Farm, and am foreman to Mr. Charles Webster, a farmer, there. On a farm at Hillingdon he had a rick of clover hay—on Friday, the 24th, I saw Baker come after a load of hay—he took a load, and paid me the money, 4l. 10s.—he said, "Can I have a load on Monday morning?"—I said, "I can't give any answer before I see Medler, and I will let you know on Saturday night by one of the men;" I forgot it then, and sent word on Sunday afternoon—I did not speak to Baker himself with regard to it—on Saturday evening I told Medler we wanted a load of hay cut for Baker on Monday morning, and asked him what time he would get it ready; he said it should be ready by half past 9 or 10 o'clock—I said, "Very well, I will send word to him that it shall be ready by 10;" he said, "By 10 it shall be all ready"—on Mon­day morning, about 7 o'clock, I went to the clover hayrick—Medler was there, and his two brothers with him—they were not engaged by me—I said, "Has any one been here this morning?"—he said, "Oh, yes, he has been here"—I said, "Has he taken any hay away with him?"—he said, "No"—"Well," I said, "where has he gone to"—he said, "To one of the mills; either Mr. Randall's or Mr. Austin's"—I said, "The track of the cart went the other way"—"Well," he said, "I do not know where he has gone to, but he told me he was going to one of the mills"—I understood him to be speaking of Baker—he said, "He will be here again between 9 and 10, but I do not know whether he will have one load or two this morning"—I went and looked round the rick—I asked him whether any hay had been taken away that morning—he said, "No"—after this conversation I went out into the road, and made inquiries—I fancied I could trace Baker's cart—I went down to West Drayton—that was quite a contrary way to Mr. Austin's or Mr. Randall's mills—when I got to West

Drayton, I went to a barn there, about fifty or sixty yards from Baker's house, on the opposite side of the road—I found his cart standing by the side of the barn door, backed in, and a load of hay on it—I do not know whether Baker's name was on the cart; I know it was his horse and cart—it was clover hay—I looked round it—I fancied it was our hay, by its being made lighter than hay in general—I believe it to be my master's—it looked as if it had not been cut long—I went back to the hayrick about half past 9 o'clock, Medler and his brothers were still there—"Now," I said, "Medler, has any one been here this morning, and fetched any hay away?"—he said, "No"—I said, "I know they have"—he said, "Yes, they have had half a load away"—I said, "Yes, Medler, and a load; for I have been down to Drayton, and seen a load standing on Baker's cart"—he made some reply; I do not justly know what—I went away down the road, and met Baker coming up from Drayton with the cart and horse—I said, "Halloo! what, are you coming after your load of hay?"—he said, "Yes"—I said, "Have you seen any reapers about this morning?"—he said, "No, I have not seen any countrymen at all"—I got up into his eart, which was empty; I rode along in it towards the rick; "Now," I said, "Mr. Baker, you may as well pay me for this load of hay, for I want to go to Uxbridge, and this is my nearest way"—he said, "Yes," stopped his horse, and pulled out the money, 4l. 10s., and gave it to me—I said, "Now, Mr. Baker, this is for this load of hay you are going now to fetch from the rick"—he said, "Yes"—"Well," I said, "let us see, how many loads have you had before?"—he said, "Three loads and three quarters"—I said, "You have paid for all you have had before?"—he said, "Yes"—I said, "You have not fetched a load before this morning?"—he said, "No"—I said, "Nor yet your horse and cart?"—he said, "No"—I said, "Now, Mr. Baker, I know you have; for I have been down to Drayton, and seen a load standing on your cart"—he said, "Yes, I have; and I would sooner pay for it than have any bother about it"—I said, "No, I can't do that; you must go to Mr. Webster, my master"—he had paid me for the three loads and three quarters—the price was agreed upon before—he was to have ten loads out of the rick, at 4l. 10s. per load—I took him to Mr. Webster's, and told Mr. Webster, in his presence, what had occurred—Mr. Webster said he should not have anything to do with it; he should see the Magistrate—Baker said, "I hope you will look over it, Sir, for I have a wife and three little children at home"—he was given into custody—I afterwards went back to Medler, and took him to the policeman—he said he would go with me; he did not know anything that he was going for—I afterwards examined the hay that had been on Baker's cart—there were thirty-six trusses there—we weighed them all—the proper weight of a truss is 56 lbs.—they were over weight—I did not keep an account of the weight; that was left to the policeman—I saw them weighed—there were two the right weight, and all the others were over—there were two or three that weighed 64 lbs.—Medler binds all Mr. Webster's hay; he is an experienced man; he keeps a weighing machine of his own, and brings it with him—it was there on the morning of 27th July.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. When had Baker bought the ten loads? A. Three weeks before—he had three loads and three quarters out of the ten, and paid for them—he took half a load at one time, and a quarter at another—he might take what he liked and when he liked, by giving us orders.

Cross-examined by MR. CARTER. Q. What directions did you give Medler

on this morning besides binding the hay? A. I told him Mr. Nash had sent down to know if he could have half a load, and I sent word back that he could—I did not instruct him that he was to let Mr. Nash have some hay—I said I did not know whether he should have it or not, but he should know on Monday morning—I did not give him any special directions as to Baker's hay, except that he was to bind it up in trusses—he had nothing to do with selling or taking the money; he would assist in the loading—the tops and bottoms and the middle of a rick of hay vary very much in size—if a truss a foot square were cut from the middle of a rick, it would not be so large as if cut higher up—tops and bottoms are usually sold cheaper—they weigh lighter—they do for young cattle—they will not do for the purpose that the middle of the rick is applied for—we sell 18cwt. to a load—a truss ought to weigh exactly 56 lbs.—this hay was light made; it was made a little too much, it was left out in the field a day or two too long; there was a little trefoil in it—I fancied I could swear to it—I will posi­tively swear that the hay which I saw upon the cart was my masters, by the chickweed that was in it—I find chickweed in my garden, but not so much as there was in that hay—chickweed is a specimen of very bad farming—I also noticed the trefoil—some farms in the neighbourhood have these things, and some do not—I will not swear that I tracked the wheels from our hay rick to the place where I found the cart standing, without interruption—it did not go through several court yards in order to get there—it passed just at the back of my master's—when I asked Medler, he denied at first that anybody had been there—Baker had only bought ten loads—there were more than that in the rick—I knew how much he had had, because he had paid me for it—he told me what he had had when he paid me—Medler was there at the time he paid me—I did not refer to him to know what Baker had had.

MR. POLAND. Q. Did you snow the hay that you found on the cart to Mr. Webster? A. Not at the time; I did afterwards—I did not take any of it back to the hay rick—we had some trusses from, that rick at home—I did not put the two together to compare them—I have no doubt as to its being the hay from our rick.

JURY. Q. Did Baker pay you for each load separately as he had them? A. No; he paid for one load separately, and then for the two loads and three-quarters together, after he had it.

CHARLES. WEBSTER . I am a farmer, and live on a farm adjoining Cowley Manor Farm. On Monday, 27th July, Tinson brought Baker to me, at the public room at Uxbridge—he had been to my house with him, but I was not there—after Tinson had related what he has stated, I said to Baker that it was a very bad case; I considered it a felony—he replied, that it would make no difference to me; he had the money in his pocket to pay me, and offered to pay me for it—I declined to receive it, and said it was a case I could not compromise; the Magistrate must settle it—he was taken before the Magistrate—Tinson afterwards showed me some hay, which I have no doubt was mine—I had sold ten loads to Baker, on condition that every load was paid for before it left the field—it was to be 4l. 10s. a load—there were eighteen or nineteen loads in the rick—he said he would fetch the ten loads away in three weeks.

WALTER PACEY . (Police sergeant, T 31). I took the prisoners into custody—I told Medler he was charged with being concerned with Baker in stealing a truss of hay—he said, "I know it is all false, for I know that Baker has paid for all the hay he has fetched, with the exception of one load."

(MR. METCALFE., on the part of Baker, submitted that this was no larceny; he was entitled to take the ten loads which he had contracted to purchase, and he had only taken three loads and three-quarters. MR. POLAND. contended that, as he had not complied with the conditions of payment before removal, he had committed a trespass which amounted to larceny. The COMMON SERJEANT. was of opinion that he had acquired a right under the contract to the ten loads, and that, until those ten loads were exhausted, he had the legal possession of the property; and, although he might be attempting to evade the terms of the contract, that would not make him such a trespasser as to render him answer­able to a charge of larceny. The Jury were, therefore, directed to find a verdict of NOT GUILTY .)

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-831
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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831. JOHN JACKSON , burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of Edward Glenister, and stealing 4 pairs of copper scales, and 1 ounce weight; his goods.

MR. SEIGH. conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM JOSEPH GLENSITER . I am a grocer, of No. 7, Green Street, Stepney. On the night of 30th July I went home about half past 11 o'clock—I had left at 9 o'clock in the morning, leaving no one in the house—the doors and windows were all securely fastened then—as I returned I received information from a person standing outside my house, and saw two men come out—the prisoner is one of them—I ran after him, but was not able to lay hold of him—he was brought back again in about five minutes—on going into my premises, I found that a ladder had been placed against a back window, a square of glass in which had been broken, the catch put back, and the sash thrown up—the door leading into the yard was open—I had left it fast in the morning—it must have been opened by a key—it was the door out of which I saw the men rush—I missed from the shop four pairs of scales and one weight.

PRISONER. Q. Can you say I am one of the men? A. Yes—I never lost sight of you until I saw you stopped.

AMELIA EATON . I am the wife Thomas Eaton, of Clark Street, Stepney. On the night in question I was standing at my own door, which is close to Mr. Glenister's, and saw the prisoner running from the door of his house—I am sure he is the man—I saw his nice as he ran past me—he nearly knocked me down—I caught hold of him, but he was too much for me, and got away—he was brought back directly.

JOHN GINGLE . I live in Dempsey Street, Stepney. I heard a cry of "Stop thief!" and the policeman's rattle—I saw the prisoner running on the opposite side of the road—I went across, and stopped him, and held him until I gave him in charge to the constable—he did not try to get away.

JOHN PIERCE . (Policeman, K 178). I received the prisoner in custody from Gingle, and took him back to the prosecutor's—the prisoner said that the prosecutor was mistaken in the man—I found these scales in the yard after we went back to the house—they were tied up in two separate hand-kerchiefs.

WILLIAM JOSEPH GLENISTER . re-examined. These are my scales—they are marked—they were on the counter when I left home in the morning.

Prisoner's Defence. I was passing the prosecutor's premises, and saw a man run past there, and a little while afterwards I was taken hold of; that is all I can say about it.


(The prisoner was further charged with having been before convicted.)

GEORGE PALMER . (Policeman, K 208). I produce a certificate—(Read:

This certified the conviction of Henry Walker, upon his own confession, at Clerkenwell, on 12th Dec., 1853, of larceny, and that he teas sentenced to Six Months' Imprisonment)—I was present at the trial—the prisoner is the man referred to.

Prisoner. Since then I enlisted in the Militia, and have been abroad. Witness. That is true—he has been home about twelve or fifteen months.

GUILTY.— Confined Nine Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-832
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

832. JOHN RILEY (22), Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of Michael James Welch, and stealing therein, 3 coats, 1 decanter, 1 pint of brandy, and other articles, value 7l.; his property.

MR. ORRIDGE. conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY EYRES . (Policeman, K 352). On Wednesday morning, 7th July, about 4 o'clock, I was on duty in North Street, Ratcliffe, and saw the prisoner come out of the back premises of the Blacksmiths' Arms, with three coats on his arm—when he saw me he dropped them and ran, I followed him into Black Bull Court, about 200 yards from the prosecutor's—he jumped over a wall, and I lost him for about an hour; when I went with Cox, another constable, to a lodging in that court, I saw him looking out at a window—I went up to him, and told him I wanted him for a burglary—he said, "All right, I will go"—these (produced) are the coats.

Prisoner. Q. I wish to know why you did not know me when you came twice into the room? A. I did not go into the room till I saw you look out of the window, and then I knew you directly—I had not known you before—I only went once into the room—I did not strike you—I had seen you all night long on my beat, and am sure you are the person—a woman said something about some thieves going up the court, but I took you from what I saw—I was not intoxicated.

MICHAEL JAMES WELCH . I keep the Blacksmiths' Arms, Stepney. On 7th July, about 5 or 6 minutes past 12 o'clock, I went to bed, having fastened all the doors, and left everything safe—I was called by Eyres, and came down about 4 o'clock in the morning; the back door was open, and a policeman was standing in the passage with my three coats on his arm; a keg of Old Tom had been shifted from the bar into the skittle ground—anybody who got in at the back door could go to the bar, and have access to the house—these are my coats, they hung in the bar parlour the night before—I missed a decanter of brandy, and a decanter of rum, and a four gallon stone bottle of rum was carried into the passage from the bar—I went into Black Bull Court with the policeman, and he saw the prisoner looking out at a window in his shirt sleeves, with a handkerchief on his head; the policeman said, "That is the man"—there were two policemen—Eyres was quite sober—the back door had been opened by a skeleton key—it had been locked, and the door bolted inside—I cannot say how that was unbolted, I am sure it was bolted at half past 10 o'clock the night before—there was a little hole near the bolt, I do not know whether they could get their fingers in.

Prisoner's Defence. I know nothing of it, and the woman knows that the man was a stout man.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months

NEW COURT.—Tuesday, August 18th, 1857


Before Michael Prendergast, Esq., Q. C., and the Sixth Jury.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-833
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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833. WILLIAM CLARK (21), Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-834
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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834. ANN EVANS (18), was indicted for a like offence: to which she

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Four Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-835
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

835. EDWARD EDWARDS (48), Unlawfully having counterfeit coin in his possession: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-836
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

836. ELIZABETH CAMPBELL (18), Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin: to which she

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-837
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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837. JOHN GARNER (33), Feloniously having counterfeit coin in his possession, after a previous conviction: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Ten Tears Penal Servitude.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-838
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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838. WILLIAM ANDREWS (22), Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS BODKIN. and ELLIS, JUN., conducted the Prosecution.

HANNAH NELLIS . I am servant to Mr. Gilbert, a corn chandler, in Leman Street. On the evening of 1st July the prisoner came, about a quarter after 9 o'clock, for Id. worth of bird seed—he laid a shilling on the counter—I gave him a sixpence and five penny pieces change—he left the shop—I afterwards examined the shilling; it was bad—I put it into my pocket—I afterwards went to the station; I marked it, and gave it to a policeman.

Prisoner. Q. Are you sure I am the person? A. Yes, quite sure.

JOHN CLARY . (Police sergeant, H 8). I received this shilling from the last witness that evening.

EUPHEMIA HALL . My husband keeps a cheesemonger's shop, in Leman Street. On the evening of 1st July the prisoner came, about a quarter to 10 o'clock—he asked for two eggs for 1½d.; he gave me a bad shilling—I told him it was bad—I broke it into two pieces with my teeth; the small piece fell down, my husband took it up, and gave it to a constable with the other—he took the prisoner into custody.

CHARLES GASCOYNE . (Policeman, H 98). I took the prisoner, and received one of these pieces of coin from Mr. Hall, and one from Mrs. Hall—the prisoner said it was a shame, he had just left work.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin to the Royal Mint. These are both counterfeit.

Prisoner's Defence. I acknowledge going into the egg shop, but I did not go into the other shop.

GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-839
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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839. MARGARET WEST (15), was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. BODKIN. and ELLIS. JUN., conducted the Prosecution.

MARIA FERRY . I am the wife of George Ferry; he keeps a shop in Church Street, Bethnal Green. On 21st July the prisoner came for a quarter of a pound of bacon and a farthingsworth of milk—they came to

3d.—she gave me a shilling; I gave her change, and put the shilling into the till—there was no other money there—the prisoner went away—my husband afterwards looked at the shilling—there was then only that one there—I marked it, and put it on the mantel shelf—on the next afternoon the prisoner came again for a half quartern loaf and a half quartern of butter—I served her, and she paid me with a shilling; I put it into the till; there was no other shilling there—I gave her change, and she went away—Goddard was there, and after the prisoner was gone he asked to look at the shilling—I showed it him—he went out, and brought the prisoner back—my husband afterwards came home, and the prisoner was given to the constable—I gave the first shilling to my husband, and he gave them both to the constable—before the prisoner came the second time, I had found that the first shilling was bad, and I had made some arrangement.

Prisoner. There was more silver in the till, and when I came back you took the shilling out of the till, and put it into your pocket. Witness. There was only a sixpence and a 3d. bit in the till—I took it out, and showed it her—that was on the second day—on the first day there was no money at all in the till—we had taken bad money before, which was the reason we kept the till empty.

WILLIAM OWEN GODDARD . I was in the last witness's shop on 22nd July, in the evening; I saw the prisoner pay her a shilling—when the prisoner had left, I asked to look at it—it was bad—I gave it back to her, and went across the road, and brought the prisoner back.

Prisoner. He had the shilling in his hand when he came after me; I was standing, talking to my mother. Witness. It was at the prisoner's request that she stayed till Mr. Ferry came home, and we did not send for a policeman till then.

GEORGE FERRY . I am the husband of the first witness. On 22nd July I received a shilling from her—I gave it to the officer who came to my house—I took the other shilling from the mantel shelf, and gave them both to him.

Prisoner. He said he had got a lot of bad money, and if my mother would give him good shillings for the bad ones, he would let me go? Witness. No, I did not; I said, "Send for a policeman," and the prisoner said, "Stop till I send for my mother; she is gone to see if she can make up the money; if my mother makes up the money, will you lock me up?"—I said, "We will talk about that afterwards"—I knew the prisoner before; she lives but a short distance from me, down Cock Lane.

THOMAS HARRIS . (Policeman, H 119). I took the prisoner, and received these two shillings from the last witness.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These are both bad.

GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury. — Confined Four Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-840
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

Related Material

840. WILLIAM JONES (21), was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. BODKIN. and ELLIS. conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES FOSTER JACKSON . I am barman to Mr. Smith, of the Admiral Keppel, Shoreditch. On 14th July the prisoner came, about 8 o'clock in the evening, for a pint of porter; it came to 2d.—he gave me a shilling—I put it into the till—there was no other shilling there, I am quite certain—I gave him change, and he went away—soon after I went to the till, and saw a bad shilling lying on the top of the sixpences—there was only that one shilling there—I took it up, marked it, and put it away—no one had

been to the till in the meantime—no one was at home—on 20th July the prisoner came again for 1½d. worth of peppermint—I served him; he gave me a shilling—I saw it was bad before he had got it out of his pocket hardly—I told him he had had me once, and I had got him now—I jumped over the counter, and collared him—Scott, the constable, was outside the door; he came in, and took the prisoner, and I gave him the shilling.

Prisoner. What I said before the Magistrate was taken down; I can prove that I was not in London on 14th July. Witness. The prisoner always said that he was not the person who came on the 14th.

Prisoner. You told the Magistrate on the 21st that I took the shilling from some halfpence, and when you would not take the shilling I offered you coppers; I had only two halfpence and one farthing; you told me you had only been there a week, and there was so much bad money you had taken that you were determined to make an example of the first that you found. Witness. I had only been there a few weeks, and on the Sunday before one of his companions gave me a bad half crown.

COURT. Q. Did you say you had taken a great deal of bad money, and you were determined to lay hold of somebody? A. No—I had been there six weeks next Thursday—I had taken a bad half crown on the Sunday before.

WILLIAM SCOTT . (Policeman, G 45). I took the prisoner on 20th July—the last witness gave me these two shillings—I did not hear him say he had taken so much bad money, he was determined to make an example of some one—I found on the prisoner one penny piece and one farthing.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These are both bad, and from the same mould.

Prisoner's Defence. On 14th July I was not in London; at 10 o'clock that morning I was discharged from Maidstone gaol, where I was confined fourteen days; I had been under medical treatment ten days; I was in a bad state of health; on that day I managed to get to Gravesend; I asked a boy where I could get a lodging, and he said I could sleep in the baskets, which I did; the next day I went to Woolwich; I went to Mr. Traill, the Magistrate, and he told me to call on him, and he would give me 10s.; I have, since I have been here, written to the Governor of Maidstone Gaol, and here is his letter, which will satisfy you that I was discharged on that day, and I was not in London; I was in an ill state of health, and could not walk there; I went to Maidstone Gaol for half a crown; if I had had the money I should have paid it.

COURT. to C. F. JACKSON. Q. What time was it you saw him on the 14th? A. Between 8 and 9 o'clock—I have no doubt he is the person, I knew him directly he came in on the second occasion—I said I would wait till the next morning, because the officer said, "Don't be too sure"—I went the next morning, and said that I was positive it was him.

GUILTY. of the second uttering .— Judgment respited.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-841
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

841. RICHARD BURRIDGE (25), was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. BODKIN. and ELLIS. conducted the Prosecution.

SUSANNAH CHENEY . I am in the service of Mr. Everard, who keeps the Fish and Bell, in Charles Street. On 26th July the prisoner came in alone, about a quarter before 11 o'clock at night, for half a quartern of gin—he paid me with a bad shilling—I tried it in the detector—I broke it, and threw the two pieces on the counter; the prisoner took them up—Mr. Everard came in just at that moment; I told him what had happened—he asked the prisoner where the two pieces were—the prisoner immediately

presented one piece to him, and said, "Here it is"—Mr. Everard asked where the other one was, and he told him to find it.

THOMAS EVERARD . I keep the Fish and Bell. On that night I came out of the parlour into the bar—Cheney said the prisoner had passed a bad shilling—he said he had given a good one, and she had returned him a bad one, broken—I said, "Where are the pieces?"—he handed me one piece—I asked for the other, and he said, "Find it"—I gave him into custody with the piece of the shilling.

JOSEPH BARBER . (Policeman, C 59). The prisoner was given into my custody, with this part of a bad shilling—I asked him where the other part was, and he said, "Find it"—I did not find it—I found on him a half crown, six 4d. pieces, and a penny, all good—he was taken to Monmouth Street, and discharged—the party did not appear—he gave the name of Richard Cook.

HARRIET PRICE . My husband keeps the Norfolk Arms, in the Strand. On 1st Aug. the prisoner and another man came in, about half past 12 o'clock at night—I served the prisoner with a pint of porter—he paid me for it—he then asked for a pickwick, and his friend put down a penny to pay for it—the prisoner said, "Take up your penny," and he put down a shilling—I took it up, examined it, and found it was bad—I told the prisoner so, and told him I should give him into custody—he wanted the shilling back—I said no, I should not give it him back—he said he would not believe it was bad—I sent for the policeman, and they were both taken in charge—I marked the shilling, and gave it to the policeman.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. How long did the prisoner remain in your house? A. About ten minutes—there were no other persons there—we are obliged to keep open late—some of the houses about us are open all night—I told the prisoner I should send for a constable—he remained till the constable came.

JOHN FENN . (Police sergeant, F 27). The prisoner was given into my custody—I received this shilling from the last witness—the prisoner asked me to let him look at it, and said he did not know it was bad—I took him to the station, and found on him one good shilling and one penny.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This part of a shilling is bad, and this shilling is bad, and they are from the same mould.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-842
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude

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842. WILLIAM REDFERN (34), and SARAH JANE PERKINS (28), Feloniously making counterfeit coin: to which

REDFERN PLEADED GUILTY .— Ten Years Penal Servitude.

PERKINS PLEADED GUILTY .— Three Years Penal Servitude.

(Jonathan Richards, a cabinet maker, gave Redfern a good character.)

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-843
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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843. JOHN TURNER (25), unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. BODKIN. and ELLIS, JUN., conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY JOHN HAYWARD . My father keeps a public house in the Mile End Road. On 23rd June, the prisoner came to the bar between 10 and 11 o'clock; he asked for a glass of 6d. ale—it came to 1½d.; he pulled out a shilling—he made it sound on the counter—I put it in my teeth, I found it was bad—I told him so—he said he got it in change for a half crown at a public house down the road, but he could not tell where—I gave him into custody, marked the shilling, and gave it to the officer.

JAMES LEWIS . (Police sergeant, K 4). I took the prisoner on 23rd June—this shilling was given to me by the last witness—I searched the prisoner—I

found on him a nut, a piece of beef, and 2d.—he was taken to the police court, and remanded and brought up again—he gave the name of John Harris.

WILLIAM JEFFRIES . I am an oil and colourman, in Bethnal Green Road. On 18th July, the prisoner came into my employer's shop, he asked for a quarter of a pound of gunpowder—it came to 3d.—he paid me with a bad 2s. piece; I tried it with the detector, and bent it all round—I asked him where he got it—he pointed to an oil shop nearly opposite, kept by Mr. Pereira—I told him as it was bad if he would go over with me to the shop I would let him go—he made a great objection to going, and said he had something better to do—I walked round the counter, and when I got within a foot or two of him, he got towards the door, and tried to get away, but I caught him, and gave him in charge—I gave the 2s. piece to the officer.

THOMAS MESSENGER . (Policeman, K 412). I took the prisoner on 18th July, the last witness gave me this 2s. piece.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This florin is bad, and this shilling.

Prisoner's Defence. The money was given to me; I went into a public house and changed half a crown; I thought the 2s. 'piece was good.

GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-844
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

844. SOPHIA SMITH (54), was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. BODKIN. and ELLIS. conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM MYLES . I am a baker. The prisoner came to my shop on 24th July, for a half quartern loaf, and gave me a shilling, and I gave her change—I put the shilling into the till, where there was no other—directly after she was gone, I took it out of the till—I found it was bad—next evening the prisoner came again at 10 o'clock for a half quartern loaf, and gave me a bad shilling; I threw it on the counter, and told her to stop till I saw a policeman, as she had been there two or three times—she said, "For God's sake, don't give me into custody"—the officer came, and I gave her into custody, with both the shillings.

GEORGE BARFIELD . (City Policeman, 555). I took the prisoner—she said, "For God's sake, don't give me in charge, I did not know it"—I took her to the station, and gave her to the female searcher, and she gave me 1l. 4s. 9 3/4 d.—the prisoner said she would not give her address.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These are both bad.

Prisoner's Defence. I do not get my living by passing bad money, I can assure you; I hope you will have mercy upon me.

GUILTY .— Confined Eight Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-845
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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845. ARTHUR JOHNSON (20), Embezzling 4l. 10s.; the moneys of Malcolm Stewart Roach and others: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY.—The prisoner received a good character, and was recom-mended to mercy. — Confined Six Months.

OLD COURT.—Wednesday, August 19th, 1857.

PRESENT—The Rt. Hon. the LORD MAYOR.; Mr. Baron MARTIN.; Mr. Justice CROWDER.; Mr. Ald. SIDNEY.; Mr. Ald. HALE.; Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.; and MICHAEL PRENDERGAST , Esq., Q. C.

Before Mr. Justice Crowder and the Third Jury.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-846
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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846. FREDERICK CARPENTER (17), Unlawfully neglecting to deliver certain letters entrusted to him for that purpose as a letter carrier: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-847
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

847. WILLIAM JOHN THOMPSON (32), Stealing, whilst employed in the Post Office, 3 post letters containing money; also a post letter con­taining a 10l. and a 5l. Bank notes and 162 stamps; the property of Her Majesty's Postmaster General; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Eight Years Penal Servitude.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-848
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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848. GEORGE HARVEY (46), Stealing, whilst employed in the Post Office, a post letter, containing a half sovereign and a sixpence; the property of Her Majesty's Postmaster General: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Eight Years Penal Servitude.

Before Mr. Baron Martin.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-849
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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849. JOSEPH COLLINS (42) and THOMAS COLLINS (40), Feloniously and knowingly uttering a forged 5l. note.

MESSRS. GIFFARD. and MARSHALL. conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS WHITTINGHAM MARSHALL . I am a tobacconist, at No. 5, High Street, Islington. I have known both the prisoners about eighteen months—on Sunday night, 7th June, they came to my house a little before 11 o'clock in my absence; they came again about half past 11 o'clock, and I saw them—Joseph asked for a pound of cheroots—he said he wanted them for a man at the Aldershott Camp—I gave them to him, and he paid for them with a 5l. note, which he produced from a pocket book—I saw other papers in the pocket book—I should think they were memorandums—he asked for a card or two of mine, and said he expected he could get me a large order if the cheroots were good—I did not know their name; they had previously represented to me that they had a contract for supplying the troops at Aldershott with meat for six months—they were constantly in the habit of coming into my shop—I locked the note in my drawer, and kept the key—I had no other note there or in my possession at that time—I gave Joseph 4l. 11s. change, and a card—Thomas asked for three cheroots, and paid for them himself at the same time—I paid the note away next morning, to Mr. Lloyd, on Holborn Hill—I wrote my name on it—this is it (produced)—it was returned to me on the 11th—I afterwards went with the constable in search of the prisoners, and was present when they were apprehended on 30th June—I saw the officer find, at their lodging, the pound of cheroots I had sold them, untouched, in a box under the bed.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. (for Joseph Collins). Q. You generally put your name on 5l. notes when you take them, do you not? A. Yes, I am quite certain this is the note I took of the prisoners—they had dealt with me once or twice a week for eighteen months—I do not know that Joseph has any employment at Aldershott; he said he had; I have never been there to see.

WILLIAM HENRY TAYLOR . I am a surgeon, at No. 19, Sooth Row, New Road. I have known the prisoners for some months, and have attended Joseph professionally—on 6th June last they came to my house about 5 or 6 o'clock in the evening—I supplied them both with medicine—they gave their address as No. 16, Charlotte Street, Fitzroy Square—I think both spoke, but Joseph did decidedly—what I supplied them with came to 16s.; they paid it by a 5l. note; Joseph produced it—I took it, and examined it—I asked them to put their name to it, and Joseph wrote the name of J. Roberts on it—this is the note (produced)—I said I thought I had not sufficient silver in the house to give him the full change, and I must send out to get it—he said, "Oh, don't do that; give me what you have, and send the silver with the medicine;" so I gave him the four sovereigns, and sent the remainder of the change with the medicine—I paid the note away the same evening; it was returned to me a few days after­wards, as forged.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. I suppose they were unwell, to require 16s. worth of medicine? A. Yes, they both had some; one had some seidlitz powders—I gave them four sovereigns, and sent the other with the medicine; it was brought back.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. (for Thomas Collins). Q. Had you ever seen Thomas before? A. Yes, several times, and prescribed for him; he was usually suffering from the effects of drink when I prescribed for him——I have known him six or seven months—I have not attended him at his lodging, I have his brother—Joseph produced the note, and wrote the name on it.

COURT. Q. Did you know their names? A. Only as Roberts, not Collins.

WILLIAM EDGHILL . I am a tailor, of No. 16, Charlotte Street, Fitzroy Square. I have lived there three years—during that time no person named Roberts has lived there—I do not know either of the prisoners.

Cross-examined by MRCOPPER. Q. Are there not two sixteens in that street? A. No—there are no young men lodgers next door.

WILLIAM BEVAN . I keep a coffee house, at No. 106, Drummond Street, Euston Square. I have known the two prisoners about seven or eight months—Joseph Collins owed me about 8s. 9d. for lodging and eating—on Tuesday night, 2nd June, he came to my shop—I was sent for to come home, and found him there when I got home—he shook hands with me, and said he supposed I thought he bad run away, and I should not see him again; I said I thought different from that—he said he wanted to pay what he owed; and he tendered me a 5l. note—he appeared to me to take it from a roll of notes that he had in his hand—I asked him to write his name and address on it—he wrote, "Joseph Collins" on it—at the time he wrote it, I observed another address on it, in Park Lane—this (produced) is the note—I had no other 5l. note in my possession at that time; I had a 10l. note—the prisoner left the house directly I had given him the change—I asked him for an umbrella that I had lent him, and he said it was left then at the Orange Tree public house, just by there, and I should have it returned in a day or two, or that night—it was returned after the prisoners were in custody, by a woman that passed as his wife—I paid the note away at a butcher's about three or four days after I had it—the butcher's wife indorsed it in my presence, with my name in blue ink; some short time afterwards it was returned to me as forged.

Cross-examined by MR. COPPER. Q. Did you know that Joseph had business at Aldershott? A. I never knew that he had; he represented that

he had—he invited me to go there—he did not tell me where he was there.

COURT. Q. Had you known him by the name of Clarkson? A. No; I never knew their right name; I never knew any name; I never had occasion to ask them any name, for they always paid for everything they had at my house.

MARY CROWDER . I am housekeeper to Mr. Turner, who keeps a public house in Fox and Knot Court, Snow Hill. I have known both the prisoners since a little before last Christmas by the name of Austin—they had a shed to put mangold wurtzel and those kind of roots in—on 5th June, Thomas came to my master's about the middle of the day—he owed my master an account—he had a glass of half and half—after he asked for it he offered me a 5l. note to change, and to take what was owing—he asked me how much it was, and I told him about 1l. 5s., I thought—I asked him to write his name on the note, and he wrote the name of Henry Austin—this is the note (produced)—Mr. Turner put this mark underneath when I gave it him—I went out to a Mr. Wilson with it, and when I returned the prisoner was not there—I had not given him any change—he did not return for it—I did not see him again till I saw him at Clerkenwell—I put the note in a drawer; there were no other notes there—I had not one in the house—I gave it to my master.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. How long had you known him? A. I cannot say exactly, but before Christmas they had come to our place—they were both in the habit of coming; I did not know which was the eldest of the two; they called one another friends when they used to have their beer at our house, and that was all I knew about it—I did not tell Thomas that I would go to Mr. Wilson; I said, "I will go and get change for it"—I left some one to mind the bar—there was no one else there—he did not tell me that he was in a great hurry; he told the person in the bar he should be back in five minutes—I never heard him say he was in a hurry and could not wait for the change—he might have said it to the man; he did not to me—I do not recollect exactly the time of day, it was after dinner—I was away about five minutes, not longer—when I returned Thomas was not there—I did not see him afterwards, until I saw him in custody—I do not identify the note—he wrote the name of Austin on it in the bar—I saw him do it—I gave it him back to write the name on it, and he gave it to me again.

COURT. Q. Did Mr. Wilson take it from you? A. He took it out of my hand; he gave it back to me—it was not out of my sight—I brought it back again, and put it into a drawer where there was no other 5l. note—I gave it to my master directly he came down—I am certain I gave him the same note that the prisoner had given me.

JOHN TURNER . I keep the Fox and Knot public house. The last witness gave me this note—I made this mark on it when I took it to the police station.

JOHN GOODWIN . I keep the Northampton Arms, Lower Road, Islington. I have known both the prisoners for several months—on Friday, 12th June, Thomas Collins came to my house—after some conversation with regard to Aldershott, he stated that himself and brother had the contract for supplying the camp at Aldershott with meat, and they could not get any good gin down there, and he would like to try or taste a sample or two of mine, on which I gave him three samples—he chose a gallon at 12s., for which he paid me with a forged 5l. note—he desired me to put it up,

stating that he would call for it on his road to the station the following morning, and if he did not call I was to send it to his address, which he gave me, Nos. 13 and 16, Northampton Park—I took the address down in writing at the time—he took the note that he paid me with, out of his waistcoat pocket—I put it into the cash box—I first wrote the name and address which he gave me on it in his presence—this is it (produced)—"Mr. Austin, No. 13 Northampton Park"—he gave me two addresses, first of No.16, and then of No.13, Northampton Park—I paid it away in the course of business on the 18th, and it was returned to me on the 23rd as forged.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. How long had you known Thomas? A. I should think I had known both of them for eight or nine months—I did not know which was the eldest—I never had any reason to suppose that Thomas was a man of weak intellect—I put the note he gave me into the cash box—I believe I had some other 5l. notes there—he did not say he was buying the gin for his brother; he bought it, as it were, for both of them—he did not say he was acting for his brother—to the best of my belief, he said his brother had the contract for supplying Aldershott—he did not say that his brother had given him the 5l. note to pay for it, or anything of that kind—lie gave the address as his own.

JOSEPH WINGROVE . I live at No. 13, Northampton Park, and have done so for nearly five years. No one of the name of Austin has lived there during that time—I know nothing at all about either of the prisoners.

WILLIAM SQUIRE . I am a surgeon, carrying on business in Orchard Street, Portman Square. On 22nd June last the prisoner Joseph called at my house—I had known him more than a twelvemonth before—I had attended him—he said that he was anxious to pay, and he said something about Aldershott, and about leaving town—he offered to pay me a sovereign—I said, "Oh, pay it!"—he produced a 5l. note, and wrote on it, "J. Collins, Aldershott"—this is it (produced)—I saw him write this—I was rather hurried at the time, and put the note into my pocket, and about half an hour afterwards I took it out; it felt rough—I went into a shop; they did not give me a good opinion of it, and I took it to the police court.

JOHN GILLETT . I am an army contractor. I do not know either of the prisoners—I have the contract to supply the camp at Aldershott with meat—there is no person in my employ of the name of Collins.

Cross-examined by MR. COPPER. Q. Are you the sole contractor for meat? A. Yes—the troops buy their vegetables themselves, they are not contracted for.

ELIZA JENNINGS . I reside at No. 18, West Street, Walworth Road. Both the prisoners lodged there, and went by the name of Benson.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. For how long? A. Six or seven weeks—I understand that Joseph is the eldest; Thomas took the lodging—I did not see much of him, except during the confinement of Thomas Collins's wife; Joseph was backwards and forwards—he was living there, but did not sleep there during her confinement.

ROBERT GOULD . (Policeman, N 466). On 30th June I went with Marshall in search of the prisoners—I apprehended Thomas at a public house in the Walworth Road, and Joseph at a coffee shop—I took them to the station—they gave the name of Collins, and their address as No. 18, West Street, Walworth—I found on Joseph, 9l. 8s. 4½d., a watch, a pipe, and several other articles; and on Thomas, 1l. 6s. 6d.—I found at their lodging

a bundle of cheroots, a cheque book of the London Joint Stock Bank, and other articles.

JOSEPH BUMSTEAD . I am an inspector of notes to the Bank of England. These notes are all forgeries—they are all from the same plate; they are of different numbers—the numbers are placed afterwards on genuine notes.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. They would not pass muster with you, but I suppose to others they would appear good? A. To persons unaccustomed to take notes.(The prisoners received good characters.)

GUILTY .— Ten Years Penal Servitude.

Before Mr. Justice Crowder.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-850
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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850. ASHER STERNE (35), Feloniously setting fire to his dwelling house, Robert Randall and others being therein.

MESSRS. ROBINSON. and METCALFE. conducted the Prosecution.

JOSEPH KIOUISKI . I am a water proofer. In March last I worked for the prisoner, at No. 25, Little Alie Street, Whitechapel—I was at work there on Sunday, 15th March, in the back room second floor—there are only two floors to the house—there were more workpeople in the front room belonging to Mr. Sterne—he also occupied a parlour and bedroom on the first floor—a little before 7 o'clock I went down stairs, and saw the prisoner going up stairs—I asked him for a candle to finish my work—he gave me one in one of the little ornaments that was standing on the mantelpiece—I told him the candle would not hold in that, and I did not like to take it—he said, "Never mind, you have not got much to finish," and I took it—I left him in the first floor—I went up stain into the back room again, and put the candle on the table—I went down stairs again directly to a man named Randall, who occupies a rag shop at the bottom—I found him sitting in the back room on the first floor—by the first floor I mean the ground floor—he is in the employment of a person there—as I was going down to him, I saw the prisoner going up stairs—he went up to the back room on the second floor—I did not stop down stairs above two minutes—I then went up into the front room second floor—I remained there about ten minutes—I went out with Mark Robinson, and saw that the door of the back room was shut, and we noticed a light from the bottom of the door—we opened the door, and hallooed out "Fire!" directly—I saw a lot of India rubber cuttings burning on the ground, and a solution pot, with about fifteen or twenty pounds of solution, burning as well—that is an India rubber solution for the purpose of making coats—it was standing on the ground, burning—I saw no fire in any other place—the candle was lying on the ground, outed—I directly gave an alarm of "Fire!" and, with the assistance of Randall, it was outed—he brought up some blankets—it was completely put out—we looked round in every corner—Robinson had been at work in the front room second floor all day—the India rubber cuttings that I saw burning were lying about the room, about half way down it, not under the table—they were lying, some pieces here and some there, over half the room—after we had put the fire out, we all went down stairs—there was Robinson, Greenbow, Randall, Mrs. Levine, and her daughter, and two sons and a young man named Goldberg—while we were there, the prisoner came into the passage from the street—he asked, "What is this smoke here for?"—we told him there had been a fire—he said, "Is there anything damaged, anything burnt?"—we said, "No; there is nothing burnt, but the pieces of cutting and the solution"—he sent for a pot of beer; and while

the workpeople were drinking it down stairs, the prisoner and I went up stairs to Bee what was burnt—as we were going up stairs, he said, "Joseph, you have ruined me"—I said, "Why?"—he said, "You had no business to out the fire"—I said, "I could not help it; I was not going to leave the house burning;" and I showed him my hand, which was burnt—we went into the back room second floor—he said to me, "Go, I do not want you any more; I shall never give you a bit of work any more"—I took the handle of the door in my hand to open it, to go out, and I saw him with a candle alight in his hand—I saw him stooping down with the candle to one waterproof coat, and then to another—he looked at me and smiled, and said, "Joseph, for God's sake, don't you speak a word about it; if you do, I will transport you"—I only saw him hold the candle to two coats, and then I went down stairs directly—I saw the coats alight—I was afraid to stop up stairs any more—I went down to the passage, and saw Robinson and Greenbow, and told them all to come up, and all of us went up—I found the prisoner standing at the front room, with his arms a-kimbo, whistling, looking out through the doorway of the front room—when he heard us coming up, he turned round, and went and stood near the stairs, with his hand on the landing, very near the back room door, and he would not let us go into the back room—Randall fetched up some more blankets, but the prisoner would not let him go in—I could see the fire in the back room at that time—I opened the door—he would not let us go in, and we went down stairs, and hallooed out, "Fire!"—the engine came shortly afterwards—when he told me that I should not out the fire, he said he was insured—that was after telling me that I had ruined him—he said, "You should not out the fire; I am insured; I can get money for it."

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. (with MR. SLEIGH.). Q. What countryman are you? A. A Russian Pole—I have seen Sterne many times since this, he has been down to my place—I took work out for him—I worked for him about a week afterwards, until he was taken to White-cross Street—that might be six weeks, or two months—he paid me wages, but not regularly—I had to beg him for money—I got it, but not all of it—I have kept eight alpaca coats from him—I have got them still—I have refused to give them up, unless he pays me for my work—I claimed 8l.—he said he did not owe it me, and I kept the coats—I went to his house after the fire—I think a fortnight, or three weeks on Monday, he told me to come—I did not take my meals at his place after this—I gave evidence about this at the police court on 9th July—I know Greenbow, Robinson, and Recthand—they have been sentenced to four years' penal servitude for extorting money from the prisoner—I wanted to come here to tell the truth, but I was not called up—I was not examined as a witness for them—I was in Court at the trial—I did not hear Mr. Sterne examined, I was standing outside—I saw him go in to be examined—I have had conversa­tions with Mr. Sterne, since the fire, about going abroad—I made an affidavit—I think it was after he was arrested—I saw him deliberately light these two coats in my presence, and he smiled at me as he did it—I ran down stairs directly—he had twenty-two coats of his own in the back room, but what other materials I do not know—there was not as much as 300l. or 400l. worth of goods on the premises—I cannot say how much—there might be 200l. worth—the insurance company have paid the money, but not so much as he expected to get—I told Robinson and Greenbow to go to the insurance company, and if they wanted more proof, I was in it all—I believe they did go—I think he received 160l. from the insurance company—I was

summoned as a witness by Sterne against the others—I know Browne, the policeman—he paid me 10s. for my attendance here—I did not tell Browne that all I knew about it was, that Sterne was out of the house at the time that the fire took place—(Browne was here called in)—I know that man—he did not ask me what I knew about the fire, nor did I make him that reply—I have said that when the fire first happened I could not swear whether Sterne was at home or not—I had not seen him at home, but I did not say he was not at home at the time of the second fire—I did not tell Browne that when Sterne came in he was told there had been a fire, and it had been put out; I swear that—at the time he came home, after the first fire, he said, "Let us go up stairs, and see if it is all out"—I did not tell that to the policeman—I know Mary Callaghan, she used to work there—I do not recollect seeing her the morning after the fire—I saw her soon afterwards—she asked me how it happened—I told her it happened by accident, by the candle falling from the ornament into a pot containing the solution—I said that, because I saw the candle lying on the ground after the first fire—I told her Mr. Sterne was out at the time of the first fire—I also told Mr. Dobson that it was an accident, and must have happened by the slamming of the door, which caused the candle to fall out of the broken vase that it was in, and set fire to the solution; and I said the same to many more, because I was afraid of my life when he said he would transport me—I thought it was some spite of his, coming to me—I told that untruth in consequence of being afraid of being transported—I had done nothing to be transported for, but I know very well what Sterne is—he has done it to many—he can get many witnesses—he wanted me to be a witness against those three—I was summoned as a witness, and paid for my time—I thought I should be called up, and be able to speak the truth—I ceased to be afraid of being transported, after giving it into the parish's hands, I thought the parish would protect me—I have said that I put the candle into the vase, and the jarring-of the door must have upset it, and caused the fire—I said that because I was afraid of being transported—one of Sterne's children was not in the house at the time of the fire—I will swear that—I did not hear him exclaim, "For God's sake, save my child!"—the girl went out with the child in the afternoon before the fire, and after the first fire was over she came in with it, before the second fire—the candle was not in a candlestick, it was in an ornament—I did nothing before I came to this country for my living—I did not want it—I only went to school—I was only seventeen years old when I came here—I have been here about eight years—I have never given evidence before, and have never been in a court of justice before that I know of—Sterne spoke in the German language when he said, "You have ruined me"—he spoke in German going up stairs, and going down stairs he spoke English and German too, a little of each—I did not drink any of the beer—Recthand was not there at all when the fire happened—Levine was there, and Greenbow, and Robinson—it was while they were drinking the beer that the prisoner took up the candle, and went up stairs—I followed him—I cannot swear whether or not he asked me to go with him—he said, "Let us go and see whether it is all out"—the others might have gone if they pleased.

MR. METCALFE. Q. This was before the second fire? A. Yes—these coats that I kept I had to make up—they are not finished yet—he has not paid me for the work—8l. was due to me for five weeks' work, before the fire happened—I said the fire had happened accidentally, because I was

afraid of being transported—I think it was after that that Greenbow, Robinson, and Recthand were charged—I think they were charged a week or a fortnight after the fire—I do not know what the charge was against them—Sterne was up stairs in the parlour when the girl went out with his child—he told her to take a walk with it—that was between 3 and 4 o'clock, I think, in the afternoon—he knew the child was out at the time of the fire—the girl came home after the first fire, between 3 and 4 o'clock, I think.

ROBERT RANDALL . On 15th March I was residing at No. 21, Little Alie Street, with my mother—we lived in the lower part of the house—Sterne lived on the second floor—about half past 7 o'clock in the evening, I remember hearing a cry of "Fire!"—I went up into the back room second floor—I did not go right into the room—I saw into it, and saw a large pot on fire—it was just in the room door, on the right hand side, on the floor, against the wall—it blazed up high—I went and got some blankets, and wetted them in a tank, put them over the pot, and put out the fire—there was no fire in any other part of the room—I opened the window, and let out the smoke—at the time I left the room I know and could see there was no fire whatever in it—I then went down stairs—I met Sterne coming in at the street door—I told him there had been a fire up stairs—he first of all said something in his own language to his own people, then he said that I had no business to put it out, he was insured—he sent for some beer, and several of us drank of it; that was in the first floor front room—he remained there about five minutes before he left the room—I saw him leave it; I did not notice anything in his hand—I heard him going up stairs, he was up stairs about five minutes—he called me, and I went up; he was standing against the front room door; the back room door was shut; he said his things were all spoiled—he then came down stairs again—he stayed in the front room a few minutes, and then he went up stairs again; he remained there between five or ten minutes, and then he called me up again—he said, "Let us see if the fire is all out"—I had just got to the top of the stairs, when he said that—the back room door was shut—I followed him into the front room; he had a candle in his hand, and he went in, and looked round the room—we could not see any fire in the front room—he came out, and opened the back room door, and said, "The room is all in flames"—I saw that it was so; some coats were on fire, hanging up against the fireplace—that was about a yard from the pot that I had previously seen—I immediately ran down, and fetched up the blankets again that I had previously used; when I came up again, Sterne was standing against the top of the stairs—he pushed me back, and said I should not go into the room again—I ran down stairs, and was going to Mr. Manley's, who rents the lower part of the house—an alarm was given, the engines came, and at last it was got out—the back room and part of the staircase was burnt, and the roof; the upper part of the house was seriously burnt—I met the prisoner two or three days afterwards in Church Lane, Whitechapel—he said to me, "Those d—b—s have been troubling me"—I asked who he meant—he mentioned some names that I could not understand; Robinson was one, I cannot recollect the others—he said, "Have you heard anything from the insurance company?"—I said, "No"—he said, "If you do, don't say it was the pot on fire."

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. When he said, "Let us go up and see if the fire is all out," who went up with him? A. He went up first, and I followed—there were three or four persons standing against the window when he said that—I cannot say whether they heard it—he

did not take any caudle the first time, he did the second time—I am a dock labourer, not a regular man—after the fire I tried to get in at the window of the house—I slept in the place for three or four nights afterwards, Sterne was annoyed at my getting in, he said I had no right there, and was very angry; I was not angry—I was to have gone away that night—he did not threaten to lock me up, he gave a brother of mine in charge for stealing lead, he was taken before the Magistrate and discharged; I have never been in any trouble—I was never charged with stealing beer, or anything—I asked Sterne after the fire to pay me for my blankets; he said he would see me d—first.

MR. ROBINSON. Q. When was it he gave your brother in charge? A. I cannot recollect, it was before the fire—Mr. Manley had put my mother and I in this place to mind it for him.

LOUIS LEVINE . I am a slipper maker, living in Amelia Place, Gravel Lane, Houndsditch. On 15th March, I was working for Sterne—I remember Kiouiski calling out "Fire!" about half past 7 o'clock in the evening—I went into the back room second floor—I saw that there was some fire there—I saw Randall come up with the blankets, and it was put out; it was completely put out; there was no fire left—after that I saw Sterne come in at the street door—he said, "What is the matter here?"—we said, "There was a fire up stairs," and he said, "What a pity, I am lost with my poor family"—he went up stairs, into the parlour, on the first floor—he said to Randall, "Is there a large damage up stairs, and I shall go to the insurance office, and they must pay me"—he said that before Randall made any answer—some beer was sent for, and while we were drinking it Sterne took the candle from the table and went up stairs; and when he was on the stairs he said to Joseph, "Oh, Joseph! you have ruined me"—he said that in English—he was up stairs about five or ten minutes, and when he came down he said, "Oh, the house is full of fire!"—I did not go up stairs—we were willing to go up stairs to put out the fire, but Sterne would not let us; he said, "Don't you go."

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. You mean that he would not let you, after he came running down stairs, saying the house was all on fire? A. Yes—I tried to go; Greenbow was there, and Robinson—Becthand was not there—the prisoner did not charge me with threatening to get money from him—I did not go away from my house—I was at the Mansion House when Greenbow and Robinson were taken into custody—I stayed there till the case was over, and then went home—I did not hear that a policeman was looking after me—when the prisoner was told the house was on fire he said, "Oh, my poor children"—he said that about two or three times—he said, "I am lost, with my poor family"—I demanded 15s. from the prisoner for the loss of my tools, and 5s. for a day's work—he did not pay me; he said, "Don't bother me, my head aches, I have enough to trouble me now"—the day's wages was for Sunday, 15th March; he had paid me up to the Saturday previous.

MR. ROBINSON. Q. When was it he said he was a ruined man; at the first or the second fire? A. When the first fire was put out—his wife and children were not in the house—it was when the second fire was that he called out about his children.

ANN LEVINE . (through an interpreter). I am the mother of Louis Levine. On Sunday, 15th March, I was working for Sterne—I recollect a fire occurring in the back room second floor, and Randall putting it out—I was in the room after it was put out, I saw no fire after retiring from the room—when

I went down to the first floor, Sterne came there—he said, "What is the matter, what is the matter?" and they told him there was a fire in the back room—he asked whether anything was burnt—Barnet answered, "There is not much burnt"—Sterne said that he would go to the fire insurance office, and they must pay him—he then sent Robinson for a pot of beer—after that I was standing on the stairs, and Sterne took a candle and went up stairs, and called Kiouiski—he remained up, perhaps, nine or ten minutes, and then came down and said the whole house was on fire—I was afraid to go up, I took my child and went home—there was an hour, or perhaps less, from the first fire being put out, to the alarm of the second.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. How long have you known Sterne? A. More than a year—he did not charge me with stealing some of his coats—I was taken before a Magistrate by a policeman, and charged with stealing a coat; that was the Thursday after the fire; the Magistrate discharged me at once—the prisoner spoke both English and German at the time of the fire.

FRANCIS TURNER . I am a fireman. I was called to the fire, it was in the top back room second floor, and the staircase—when I went, Sterne, who I knew before, was in the passage at the bottom of the house; he said, "Frank, for God's sake save the child, there is a child in the top front room"—he knew me very well—I have been to the house four or five times for fires, within, it may be, two years—I went up stairs, but could not get into the front room as the staircase was on fire, and the fire was going through the roof; I should have had to pass through the fire to get to it—I came down again and told him I could not get to it, and that t had not ladders on the engine sufficient to reach it; I sent for the fire escape, and put the engine to work, and put the fire out—there was no child there—the top back room was burnt, the roof was burnt through, and down the staircase as far as the first floor staircase window—after the fire was got under, I went with him to a public house, there were several persons with him. and some men with the engine; he called for 1s. worth of gin, and said, "Frank, there will be a dispute with the Insurance Company, I expect, over this fire, and I shall call on you as a witness to prove that I had a good stock at the last fire"—I told him I could prove that he had a very good stock then, but I could not tell what he had now, because all that was in the room was destroyed—on the Monday I went with Mr. Perkins, the churchwarden, to examine the premises; the prisoner was there, he said that t had had him for four or five times for fires there, and he heard a cracking noise in the room, and thought the fire was all put out, but it broke out afterwards and burnt the place.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. When he said that, was the churchwarden present? A. Yes—I cannot say whether one of the fires was five years ago or whether Sterne lived there at that time—the shop was burnt out very nearly five years ago—he used to tell me that he was not insured when he was—I know that, because he has had the money from the insurance office, I have seen the claim made out, and he has told me so since, himself—I do not know an instance in which he was uninsured—the nature of this business is very dangerous; naphtha is used, which is highly inflammable, and requires great care.

FRANCIS COHEN . I live at No. 4, Commercial Place, and am a water proofer. I saw Sterne three or four weeks before this fire—I had bought a lot of waterproof coats that had come back from the Crimea, and he said,

"I will buy twenty or thirty of you; how much do you want for them?"—I said, "One shilling a piece, I will sell them to you; but they are no good to you, it is only old rubbish"—he said, "Never mind, they will burn well"—I said, "How can you do such a thing?"—he said, "Never mind, you may burn and steal so long as you have got plenty of money in your pocket!"—I said, "I could not do such a thing as you mean to do"—he said, "Then you will be a poor man for ever."

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Have you been working for him? A. It is not done yet—I did not sell him the coats, it was merely talk—what he said was "burn them to get money from the insurance office"—we have not had any quarrel—I never claimed any money of him—we have had no disputes about money—I never asked my expenses as a witness when he refused to pay me—I only asked Mr. Daniel, the solicitor, not him—I have not been paid—I have never threatened to transport him.

BARNET WATSKI . I am a water proofer, of No. 111, Houndsditch, and am in the employment of Messrs. Silver—Sterne called at my place on the Thursday after the fire, between 10 and 11 o'clock, and asked for Mark Robinson, who lodged there with me—Mr. Bowman, the landlord, said he was not within—he said, "I think he is," and the landlord called me down—he said, "As Mark Robinson is not at home, if he comes home, perhaps you will be kind enough to tell him I want to. see him very particularly, I want to give him something to drink"—he wanted to give him sufficient money to go away to America, for he knew he had been to the insurance office, and that he would ruin him if he remained in London any longer—when Robinson came home, I told him—next Monday evening Sterne came again, at a little after 7 o'clock in the evening; I went down—he said, "Well, is Mark at home?"—I said, "The landlord has just sent him out for an errand"—he said, "Did you tell him?"—I said, "Yes"—he said, "Did he give you an answer?"—I said, "I told him you were here, and he said to me he had got no reason to wish to leave London, and he did not want any money of you to go away to America"—Sterne said, "Well, I can say if he does not want to go to America, he only wants to ruin me; but before he can get me into trouble, I will get him in sooner"—I said, "How can you get the man in trouble so easily?"—he said, "You do not know me for a day; but you have known me quite long enough, as I can get any man into trouble as easily as you can make a waterproof garment;" then he said, "Look here, one Jack Sheppard is gone, and I am the second; only there is not another Jonathan Wild shall be able to beat him"—I think it was on the Friday after that that Robinson was given into custody, or the same Friday, I cannot say which.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Were you examined on the trial of Robinson and Greenbow? A. The First Session I was for my friend Robinson, in the other Court—I gave just the same evidence then that I have to-day—the Jury found Robinson guilty—it was of attempting to extort money from Sterne, by charging him with setting his house on fire, so I have heard, and he was sentenced to penal servitude for four years—I have known him for three years, on and off—I lived in the same house with him—Mr. Sterne insulted me one night in the City Theatre, and I was bound over to keep the peace for two years—that is about twelve months ago—that has nothing to do with this—I am stating the truth here.

AARON BOWMAN . I am a cap maker, of No. 111, Houndsditch. I know Sterne—he called on me in March, on the first Thursday after the fire,

about 10 o'clock at night, or a little after; he knocked at the door, and asked for Mark Robinson; I said that he was not at home; he said, "He is at home"—he would not believe me, and to satisfy him I called down Barnet Watski, who lives in the same room with him, and asked him—he said he was not at home, and I asked Sterne if he had any message to leave; he said, "I want to see him very particularly, and I want to call him into a public house and give him something to drink, and I want to give him some money."

JAMES ANDERTON, ES . Q. I am one of the Under Sheriffs, and am manager and agent of the London department of the West of England Insurance Company. The prisoner made a claim on the office after the fire, for 480l., to the beat of my recollection—my clerk has the claim here—160l. was ultimately paid—the policy is here.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. He had the salvage? A. Yes, 160l. and the salvage—the officers of the company were employed to investigate the claim—I had received information from some one, suggesting that it was a wilful fire; I referred it to the surveyor and assessor, Mr. Hodson, whose duty it would be to inquire in the ordinary course of business, and then to report to me—that was done, and the claim was paid.

MR. METCALFE. Q. You have been asked about the report; what was it? A. This is it (produced)—we never dispute claims if we are satisfied; we do not find it to be the policy of offices to do so.


NEW COURT.—Wednesday, August 19th, 1857.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Fifth Jury.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-851
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

Related Material

851. EDWARD ERNEST WEST (15), Forging and uttering a receipt for the sum of 20s.; with intent to defraud.

MR. DOYLE. conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY DIRKS . I am an engineer, of No. 32, Moorgate Street. The prisoner has been in my employ about nine months—I was in the habit of sending him to the Times office with advertisements—on Saturday, 18th July, I sent him with two classes of advertisements; one was to be inserted twice, and the other three times—I gave him a sovereign to pay for them—he brought me back this ticket, "Two insertions, 8s.; three insertions, 12s. "—is is a printed form, filled up in writing—something in the figures attracted my notice; I examined it with a magnifying glass, and it appeared to have been passed over with a pen—I went to the Times office, and made inquiry—I went back to my own office—I called the prisoner, and said to him, "Where is the 12s. that you did not pay at the Times office?"——his reply was, "I have no 12s. "—I said, "Yes, you have got a half sovereign and a florin"—he then said, "It is the only time I ever took it"—I ordered him to turn out everything in his pockets, and he turned out some keys and some copper money—I said, "Where is the silver?"—he said, "It is under the mat outside"—I called an officer, and went with the prisoner, and on raising the mat we found a piece of paper, which contained the 12s.,

with the exception of 3s. 7d., I think—he said he had spent the rest in dining with a friend—this is the receipt he brought me.

Cross-examined by MR. WAY. Q. How long had he been in your employ? A. He came some time in Nov., I think—I can state that it was on 18th June I gave him the sovereign, as it all took place in so short a time—it all transpired from 11 o'clock till 4—I have not told all the conversation I bad with the prisoner—he hesitated some time; I was obliged to tell him it was no use to falsify the matter, for I had got a policeman in the other room—I did not offer, if he confessed, not to press the charge—I did not offer not to press it if some money was forthcoming—I called at the office of Mr. West, his father—I did not ask him for money—a friend of his father's came to the office—I did not tell that friend that I must have some money—I did not tell him that unless some money was paid the charge would be pressed—I merely said that it was a very distressing case for his father, and his friend said that his father and he were like brothers, and I said, "You may as well come and see it"—the prisoner had 6s. a week—I paid him monthly.

ROBERT HOWARD . I live at Camberwell, and am a clerk in the Times newspaper office—I know the prisoner by his coming from Mr. Dirks—I remember his coming on 18th July, about half past 11 o'clock—he paid me for the insertion of two advertisements at 4s. each, 8s.—I gave him this receipt; when I gave it him, the figures "2" and "8" were written on it—since then there has been added to it a "3" and "12," so that it is now the receipt for five advertisements, 20s.—a different coloured ink has been marked over the "2" and the "8" since it left me.

Cross-examined. Q. When it left your hands, was there any mark of red ink on it, as there is now? A. No, they were put on it since—when it was brought to me I referred to our books, and marked out the "3" and the "12," and marked 8s. paid.

COURT. Q. What was there to show that it had been paid? A. There is a notice on it, that if any inquiries were to be made about it, this ticket was to be brought—I write these figures for the insertion and the money, without using the word "paid."

MR. WAY. Q. This is not a receipt, it is a bill of parcels? A. Yes—it is above 2l.; the usual stamp is put on it—the stamp is crossed through, the initials are put over the stamp—I put the word "paid," in red ink, to show that it was paid, if an inquiry had been made—if this had appeared without the word "paid" on it, it would be considered a receipt at our office; we should be responsible for the money; it charges us with having received the money—this is never given without the money is paid—there, are other clerks—they are not here.

ROBERT PACKMAN . I am a City officer. On Saturday, 18th July, I was sent for to Mr. Dirks's office—I saw the prisoner; ha went out of the office, and I saw him on his knees, with his right hand under the mat; he was either putting some money there or taking some away—I heard money rattle—Mr. Dirks had then stepped out—on his return the money was found under the mat.

HENRY DIRKS . re-examined. I have no doubt whatever of this "3" and "12" being the prisoner's writing; I have seen him write repeatedly.

GUILTY. of uttering — Confined Six Months.

(There were two other indictments against the prisoner.)

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-852
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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852. THOMAS HENRY MASON(28), and HARRIET JARVIS (27), Breaking and entering the warehouse of Charles White Tapling, and stealing 12 gowns, and other articles, value 143l.; his goods.

MR. LEWIS. conducted the Prosecution.

ROBERT M'KENZIE . I am an inspector of the F division of police. On 9th July I went, at half past 3 o'clock in the morning; to No, 5l., New Compton Street, where the prisoners resided, in a room on the first floor—I found the prisoners in bed—Mason was dressed, with the exception of his coat, waistcoat, and boots—Jarvis was undressed, in bed—I looked behind the door, and found this large chest, and, on looking in it, it contained the articles now produced on the top of it—I told Mason to get up, and I commenced searching the room—he dressed himself, and I directed a policeman, who was with me, to take him down stairs and put him into a cab which we had at the door—I desired Jarvis to get up, and, on looking round the room, I found this needle case on a dressing table—I asked Jarvis who it belonged to—she said, "To me"—I directed her to dress herself, and took her down stairs and put her in the cab—I then recommenced searching the room, and found this second box under the table—I found the oil cover of it under the bed, and also a large bundle, which contained three damask table cloths, twenty-two napkins, twenty-six towels, two toilet covers, five dusters, three shirts, five pillow cases, one damask chair cover, nineteen D'Oyleys, and five kitchen cloths—in the chest I found three worked cushions, one toilet cover, thirty-five pieces of silk tabaret, four curtain holders, two kettle holders, one piece of chintz, one stuffed pheasant, three glass decanters, one claret jug, thirteen brass ornaments, one photograph likeness, nine books, one piece of taper, one silk scarf, three collars, two women's sleeves, one cigar stand, one fancy work case, one scent decanter, one deal box, and an ottoman under the table—Mason was taken to the station, and I took these articles there, and asked him how he came in possession of them—he said that he had bought them at Debenham and Storr's—I asked him from whom he bought them, and what he gave for them—he said, "I refuse to answer any further questions now."

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Is this a lodging house where they lived? A. Yes—they had one room—I asked Jarvis where the other things came from, and she said that two men brought them—she did not say to me that she knew nothing about them—she dressed herself in bed, and got up—I cannot tell how many people lodge in that house—I think there are eight or ten rooms—the kitchens are inhabited by one family.

HENRY ATTWOOD . (Policeman, F 152). I accompanied the last witness to No. 5l., New Compton Street—I produce twenty-five skeleton keys, which I found under the bed; these five files, two screwdrivers, a knife, a life preserver, and other things—I went the next day to No. 16, Portland Road—one of the keys which I found under the bed opened the door—I got in, and found the place in great confusion, and, on further examining the inner door, I found marks as if it had been attempted to be forced open—I compared this knife, which I found in the prisoners' room with the marks on the door and the door post; it exactly matched them—the shop is blocked up from rest of the house—you cannot enter it from the house—I heard Mason say at the station, when the charge was read over to him, "They are my own property; I bought them at Debenham, and Storr's"—when the inspector first went into the prisoners' room he said to Mason, "Doctor, We want you"—Mason goes by the name of "Doctor."

Cross-examined by MR. SHARPE. Q. Is this shop in Portland Road? A. It is at the corner of Carburton Street, in Portland Road—the door was

locked, and I opened it with this key—I went to the house with the inspector, and saw the two prisoners in bed—it was under that bed the keys were found.

CHARLES WHITE TAPLING . I reside in Maida Vale. I had in the early part of May a number of articles in a warehouse in Portland Road—I saw them all safe on 20th June—I do not know whether I went there again till 10th July—I then found that the place had been entered, and I missed a great number of articles—those which are produced are a portion of them only—I know this needle case very well, and those other articles—the value of all I lost was from 150l. to 200l.

Cross-examined by MR. SHARPE. Q. Is there any mark on this card case? A. No, but I know it—this other article I bought at Niagara Falls—this linen is all marked, I believe.

JANE MATTHEWS . I live at No. 5l., New Compton Street, and am deputy landlady. On 8th July, about 9 o'clock in the evening, I heard a noise of something going up stairs—I at first took no notice, I thought it was some furniture going up till I heard something fall very heavily—I then took a light, and went out at the door of the room, and Mr. Mason said, "We don't want the light; take that light in, and shut the door"—I do not know whether Jarvis was in the house at that time—I did not see either of the prisoners, I only saw the person down stairs in the kitchen.

Cross-examined by MR. SHARPE. Q. Did you see the prisoner Mason? A. No, I heard his voice—I am quite sure it was his voice—two men spoke, but it was Mason who told me to go in and shut the door—I cannot tell how many persons lodge in that house, perhaps thirty, with children and all—I know the voices of a great number of them.

MR. LEWIS. Q. Did the prisoners live together as man and wife? A. Yes—they were there before I came into the house—I have been there about a month.


MASON— GUILTY .—(Mason was further charged with having been before convicted.)

HENRY DONKIN . I produce a certificate—(Read: "Central Criminal Court, August, 1851; Henry Wilks, Convicted of burglary, Confined nine months")—I was present—Mason is the person.

MASON—GUILTY.**— Ten Years Penal Servitude.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-853
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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853. JOHN WHATMOUGH (37), Stealing 36 lbs. weight of paper, value 9s.; the goods of the East India Company, his master.

MR. MAULE. conducted the Prosecution.

JOSEPH WILLIAM FORBES . (City Policeman, 112). On Saturday afternoon, 1st Aug., I saw the prisoner in Lothbury, about half, past 2 o'clock, carrying a large parcel on his back—I followed him as far as St. Ann's Lane, at the back of the Post Office—I stopped him, and asked what he had got in the parcel—he said he had a little waste paper, which was given to him by the superintendent of the East India House, and he was going to make a little money of it—I took him to the station, and from there to the East India House—the prisoner directed me to Mr. Atkins, and I saw him—I asked Mr. Atkins, in the prisoner's presence, whether he had authorised the prisoner to take any of this paper away—Mr. Atkins said, "No, not under any circumstances"—I returned to the station with the prisoner, and he told me he had taken paper away before with Mr. Atkins's consent.

AARON ATKINS . I live at Stoke Newington, and am assistant registrar at the East India House. It is my duty to receive manuscript letters which

come from India—they are called collection—they come from the East Indies in large parcels—they are stamped in the secretary's office, that it may be known to what office they belong—I hand these letters daily to persons in the East India House, and by the stamp they are enabled to return them to me—I have the sole superintendence of them—they are kept in presses up stairs, in a building near my office—subsequent to Jan. last, I commenced transferring some of them from there down to some cellars—there were three messengers and six labourers employed to transfer them, of whom the prisoner was one—that was in consequence of directions I had received, that they were to be destroyed from the earliest date to 1846, inclusive—they had usually been burnt, or cut in pieces, but in this case the Court had decided that they should be sold to papermakers under bond that they should not be made public, but should be reduced to pulp—I superintended this transfer into the cellars, and the prisoner was a messenger employed under me—it was his orders to take them into the cellar—I received some information with regard to the six labourers, and I called the prisoner and another messenger, and said, "I have found a quantity of paper up stairs in one of the presses, the consequence of it being taken away will involve you all; this will seriously affect your characters"—they answered, "Yes, of course it will, if it is allowed to go on"—this led to a stricter caution with regard to these papers—after this I received a report that the business had been completed, and these papers were transferred from the presses to the cellars—I went up stairs, and examined the presses—I found in one of them a quantity of paper, I suppose a cwt; that was a place where they had never been to my knowledge, not a place of deposit—it was a press in the entrance of the first room up stairs—I called the prisoner, and said to him, "Whatmough, why have you been stowing away papers up stairs when I had forbidden you to do it?"—he said, "I have not done it"—I said, "Who then?"—he said, "Forbes"—(he is one of the messengers)—I went and spoke to Forbes—I then ordered that portion of paper to be carried to the cellar—it was no part of the prisoner's duty to take any part. of this paper from the East India House, certainly not—the weight of the paper found on the prisoner is about 36 lbs.—this paper was never used in the East India House for lighting fires under any circumstances, nor for waste paper—I had given some French papers and old books to the messengers and to the prisoner, but only to be destroyed—part of the messenger's duty under me is, to fetch such part of this correspondence as may be required in any part of the house—that is the case daily—an order would come to me for such a collection—I should give the order to the messenger, and he would go and get it—the messengers are perfectly acquainted with the nature of these documents—I keep a register of all the documents in the presses, not of those in the cellars—I was up at the Mansion House on the first occasion—I was bail for the prisoner, and he called on me, and told me he was guilty of taking the paper, and he hoped I would do what I could for him, or something to that effect.

Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. The prisoner had been in your service for nine years? A. Yes—I did not tell the Magistrate about this conversation with the prisoner—it was not asked me—I did not tell the Magistrate that he had admitted that he had taken it—I understood that the evidence of the prisoner was never taken—I believed that I could not repeat a statement he made to me—this paper was virtually in my custody—all these are papers previous to 1846—all that the prisoner had were those that had been condemned—I did not contemplate letting them go as waste

paper, only under bond—they are general correspondence from all the presidencies of India—they are never allowed to be seen by others—it is correspondence which the world has nothing to do with—I was bail for the prisoner on the Monday, at the express wish of his solicitor, because he declared he had never tied the parcel of paper up—there was no other manuscript paper in those cellars—there was no other waste paper beside these that I am aware of, and I know everything that was in the cellars—about twelve months ago I gave the prisoner some French papers—I have given them all waste paper at different times—I have told them, "Take these papers, and destroy them"—I should not ask them any questions about it.

MR. MAULE. Q. Did you ever give to any of the messengers any papers belonging to the collections? A. No, never—they have never been given out as waste paper—the waste paper was French papers, and old manuscript books, and printed books also.

(The prisoner received a good character.)


THIRD COURT.— Wednesday, August 19th, 1857.

PRESENT—Sir JAMES DUKE ., Bart, M. P., Ald.; Mr. Ald. CARTER.; Mr. Ald. ROSE.; and MICHAEL PKENDERGAST ., Esq., Q. C.

Before Michael Prendergast, Esq., Q. C., and the Seventh Jury.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-854
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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854. JOSIAH RAYMOND (29), Stealing 1 handkerchief, value 2s.; the goods of George Nerriss, from his person: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .*— Confined Nine Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-855
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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855. BERNARD DEVIS (19), Breaking and entering the dwelling house of William Gilbertson Leo, and stealing therein 1 watch, 1 purse, and other articles, value 2l. 18s.; his property: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .*— Four Tears Penal Servitude.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-856
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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856. JOHN ROBBIE (15), Feloniously forging and uttering an order for the payment of 15l.; with intent to defraud: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY ., and his father undertook to send him abroad.— Confined Two Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-857
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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857. HENRY GRAY (22), Stealing 32l.; the moneys of Daniel Bax, his master: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy. — Confined Four Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-858
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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858. THOMAS WATSON (16), Stealing 1 pair of boots, value 6s.; the goods of David Foot.

EDWARD KING . (Policeman, K 40). On Wednesday, 5th Aug., abouts quarter past 11 o'clock, I saw the prisoner come out of the front gate of David Foot's, a policeman; he had something under his coat, which I found was this pair of boots (produced)—I found two silk handkerchiefs and a pair of goloshes in his coat pocket—he said that he bought the boots at Bow, and the boys gave him the other things.

Prisoner. I did not take the boots; three big chaps took them, and when they saw a policeman coming, they put them into my barrow.

Witness. I saw him put something into his barrow; he took it from under his coat—there were also two bones in the barrow; I cannot say positively whether he put in the bones or the boots—there was no one with him—I had him in sight four minutes before I got up to him.

DAVID FOOT . (Policeman, K 52). These are my boots, and are stamped with my number—they were in my house that morning—the handkerchiefs and goloshes have not found an owner yet.

GUILTY .**— Confined One Month ,

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-859
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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859. JAMES BIRD (40), Unlawfully carnally knowing and abusing Rebecca Sarah Carter, aged 11 years and 11 months.


17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-860
VerdictMiscellaneous > unfit to plead

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860. In the case of JOHN MITCHELL , charged with cutting and wounding George Hatchard Welch, the Jury, upon the evidence of Mr. Gibson, the surgeon to the gaol, found the prisoner INSANE., and unfit to plead.

OLD COURT.—Thursday, August 20th, 1857.

PRESENT—The Right Hon. the LORD MAYOR.; Mr. Baron MARTIN.; Sir JAMES DUKE ., Bart., M. P., Ald.; Mr. Ald. ROSE.; Mr. Ald. HALE.; and MICHAEL PBENDERGAST ., Esq., Q. C.

Before Mr. Baron Martin and the Fourth Jury.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-861
VerdictNot Guilty > non compos mentis
SentenceImprisonment > insanity

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861. JOHN PAYNE (19) was indicted for, and charged on the Coroner's Inquisition with, the wilful murder of Richard Empson.

MESSRS. BODKIN. and CLERK. conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM DARING . (through an interpreter). I was in the St. Martin's work-house on 10th July—I slept in the "F" wad that night—the prisoner also slept there that night—he was strapped down to his bed about 4 o'clock in the afternoon—Richard Empson slept in that room—I think I awoke about 5 o'clock on the Saturday morning, but I could not say for certain, as there was no clock in the room—when I awoke, I saw the prisoner struggling with the deceased at the deceased's bed—the prisoner was then up—in his left hand he had one of the straps he had been fastened down with; in the right hand he had a staff or little stick; I do not know whether it was wood or iron, and I saw him with his right hand make a sort of stab towards the head of the deceased, and the blood flowed directly—he struck at his head three or four times—the blood flowed from the deceased on to the prisoner—I ran from the room to get assistance—there were three other persons in the room while this was going on—they were in bed—I cannot say whether a person named Dixon had left the room before the struggle began, but when I awoke he was not in the room—I came back with assistance—the prisoner was then on the staircase—he had not anything in his hand then—I saw him in the yard afterwards; he ran after me—he had a shovel in his hand then.

Cross-examined by MR. GIPFARD. Q. When you saw him last, the night before, was he still strapped down in the bed? A. Yes, but before I went to sleep I saw that one of his hands was loose—in the morning, when I saw him struggling, he had a strait waistcoat on, but his hands were loose.

JAMES BARNEWT . I am the master of St. Martin's workhouse. On 10th July, about 11 o'clock, the prisoner was brought into that house, by order of the relieving officer—he was soon after seen by the surgeon—I at first

considered that he was a person capable of being set to work, but he refused to do that—in consequence of a communication made to me by the person who superintends the labour of the paupers, I sent the prisoner to what is called the "F" ward, about 2 or 3 o'clock in the afternoon of the same day—about half past 4 o'clock I was writing at the desk, and he rushed into the office, and laid hold of me by the arms at the back, and said that somebody was after him to murder him—I released myself from him, and directed him to be taken to a ward, and a strait waistcoat to be put upon him—the surgeon was then sent for; he came, and sanctioned the putting the strait waistcoat on him—I allowed Dixon to sit up that night with the prisoner, at the desire of Empson—Empson was about seventy years old—he was wardsman—I saw the prisoner after he had the strait waistcoat on, at about 10 o'clock at night—he then complained to me that some persons wanted to kill him—he was not in an excited state, he talked to me calmly—I stayed there about five or ten minutes, talking to him—he was strapped to the bed; I thought that necessary, to keep him from hurting himself or other people—I saw no more of him after that until 6 o'clock the next morning, when I was aroused—I found him in the yard, with a shovel on his shoulder—he was then in a violent, excited state—the strait waistcoat was still on him, but the straps loosened—he had blood upon him—he was throwing bricks about the yard—I sent for the policeman, and he was taken into custody—I then went up into the "F" ward; I there found Empson lying on his right side, blood was running out of his mouth, and from wounds in his head—he could not speak—I immediately sent far a doctor—I had him lifted upon the bed, and had his wounds washed—he died in about a quarter of an hour from the first time I saw him—I picked up part of a poker in the room, near where he was lying—this (produced) is it—it was covered with blood—I cannot say whether it belonged to the place, I never saw it before—after the prisoner was brought up into the room, and the strait waistcoat fastened to the bed, I asked him why he had done such a thing; he said, "He tried to kill me, and I killed him"—Empson was dead then; his body was there when the prisoner made that observation.

JOHN NATHAN BAINBRIDGE . I am surgeon of St. Martin's workhouse. On the morning of 10th July I saw the prisoner, about 10 o'clock—I had a long conversation with him, to ascertain the state of his mind; I had understood from the relieving officer that something was amiss with him—the first part of the time he apparently gave quite rational answers—just as I was about leaving him, he said, "I have been accused by persons in the street, who have been following me, of very abominable crimes;" not, perhaps, in those terms, but in more gross ones—I had a little more conversation with him at that time, and from those delusions I thought he was not right in his mind, but he appeared to be quite calm and quiet, and therefore I did not direct any restraint to be put upon him—later in the day I received a note from the master of the workhouse, to come down, as the prisoner had become very violent, and he did not know what to do with him—I went to the "F" ward; the strait waistcoat was then on him, but I advised a persistence in that restraint, believing, from the answers he gave me, from his violence towards the master, and his incoherent language, that he was a dangerous lunatic—I directed some cooling medicine to be given him—a little before 6 o'clock in the morning I was sent for by the porter of the workhouse—the deceased was still alive when I saw him—there were several punctured wounds about his head; they were such

wounds as would have been produced by this instrument—he died of that violence about ten minutes after I arrived—I had some farther conversation with the prisoner after he had been put under restraint again; he said that this man had attempted to kill him; that persons were going to kill him; he was prepared to die; he knew he should have to die that day, and that he should have to be fastened on his corpse—judging from what I had seen on the previous day, and what I saw of him that morning, I came to the conclusion that he was perfectly insane, and incapable of controlling his actions by reason.

NOT GUILTY., on the ground of Insanity. — To be detained until Her Majesty's pleasure be known.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-862
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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862. JOHN THOMAS BURNS (28), B——y.

MR. METCALFE. conducted the Prosecution.

GUILTY. of the attempt. — Confined Two Years.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-863
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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863. FREDERICK GREAVES (19), Feloniously threatening to accuse Matthew Jefferson Gibson of an infamous crime; with intent to extort money.

MR. ROBINSON. conducted the Prosecution.

GUILTY .— Penal Servitude for Life.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-864
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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864. ELIZA PETERS (23), Feloniously setting fire to the dwelling house of William Deane, with intent to injure him.

MR. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.

SUSANNAH ANN DEANS.' . I am the wife of William Deane, a stationer, of No. 29, York Street, Westminster. He is the landlord of the house, and lives in it—the prisoner was a lodger there—she occupied a front attic—she had been with us three weeks when this affair happened—no one else occupied it with her—on the morning of 23rd July I missed from a box in her room a great coat, and a pair of plaid trowsers—I did not go up myself; I sent a little girl that I keep—I saw the prisoner afterwards, I think about 11 o'clock—I asked her if the little girl had turned out the whole of the boxes to look for the property, and she said she had done so—I said it was a most extraordinary thing, as the things were in that place when she took possession of the room—I said, "My husband is going out in a hurry, and when he returns I must come and look and see if I can find them"—she then went up stairs—I saw her come down again in about ten minutes—she ran down the stairs very quickly, accompanied by a young girl named Elizabeth Groves—I then sent the servant up again—the moment she got to the door and opened it, she screamed out "Fire! the place is in flames!"—I did not go up stairs myself—I was standing between my parlour and shop door—I smelt the fire, but I did not go up—I sent for a policeman—a soldier of the Grenadier Guards, lodging in the floor below the prisoner's room, went up—I saw the prisoner about a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes after this—she had the key of the door round her finger—I was looking out of my shop door as she came up—I said, "You have set my place on fire"—she said, "My good woman, I know nothing at all about your place being on fire"—the policeman was behind her—after she came inside the house, she said to one of the lodgers, "Is it natural I should come back if I had set the place on fire?"—I gave her into custody as she came in at the door—I did not go into the room at all myself—I was dreadfully alarmed—there were my own three children in the house, and my lodgers' children.

Cross-examined by MA LILLEY. Q. The prisoner occupied but one room? A. That was all—it was nearly 11 o'clock when she went down with Groves—she returned in about a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes—as soon as

I heard the alarm of "Fire!" I became agitated and confused—the prisoner did not say, "I have had nothing to do with setting your place on fire"—I recollect the words quite well—they were, "My good woman, I know nothing of your place being set on fire"—she said to the lodger, "I had nothing to do with setting the place on fire; if I had, I should not have come back again."

HARRIET LADD . I am servant to Mrs. Deane. On the morning of 23rd July I was sent up into the prisoner's room to search for a coat and pair of trowsers—I could not find them—the prisoner was there while I was making the search—there was no fire in the room or in the fireplace, nor any candle alight—I think it was about 10 o'clock—she came down stairs about five minutes afterwards with a slop pail, and she took a jug of water up stairs with her—she came down again about five minutes after—a girl named Elizabeth Groves was with her, with a baby in her arms—they went out together—Mrs. Deane told me to go up and see if her things were all right—when I got up the door of the room was locked—I had a key which I opened the door with—when I got into the room I discovered the bed, and the sheet, and pillow case, on fire—there was smoke in the room—I hallooed out, "Fire!"—I put the blanket on the blaze—it was alight and blazing—Mr. Moon then came up—he went down again, and got a pail of water—it was smoking then—Mrs. Deane sent me for a policeman.

Cross-examined. Q. What sort of a lock had the door of the room in which the prisoner lives? A. You could only turn if with a key; it had no handle on—the door would not shut of itself, unless you pulled it to—it is difficult to keep the door open—I should say the bed does not stand half a foot from the wall.

ELIZABETH GROVES . I live at No. 18, York Street, Westminster, with my father. I know the prisoner—I saw her on the night of 22nd July, the night before this happened—she left her key with me, and told me to call about half past 10 o'clock next morning—I went up, and knocked at the door—I took her two slices of bread and butter—I did not go in—I saw smoke, and smelt fire—she partly opened the door—I said, "What a smoke! I smell fire!" and she said it was only the candle—it was not like the smoke of a candle—I did not see any candle in the room—there was a table there, with nothing on it—I did not see any candle alight—she went in, and shut the door, and then came down—I went out with her—I am quite sure I smelt burning.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you go again to her house? A. No; I went into my own house—I did not say anything to Mrs. Deane before I went out, or to the servant—I never saw them—I went round for a walk with her, and when I came back I went indoors to my own place—she said it was only a candle—I did not go into the room.

JOHN MOON . I am a private in the Grenadier Guards. I live at Mr. Deane's house, on the second floor front room—I knew the prisoner as a lodger in the other attic over me—on the morning of 23rd July I heard a dreadful scream of "Fire!"—I ran out of my room, and seeing smoke over head, I went up to the prisoner's room—I saw a dreadful smoke there, and Mrs. Deane's servant trying to smother the fire on the bed with a blanket—I ran down to my own room, took a pail of dirty water, and threw it on the bed, squeezed the bed up together, and put out the fire—after I had done so, I perceived that the place had been burnt, the woodwork of the room—I should think it is four or five feet from the bed—I took hold of it, and it was hot, and nearly burnt my finger—I afterwards

pointed it out to the police sergeant in the prisoner's presence, and she said, "Oh, this was done three or four nights ago, with the candlew"—I said, "How could that be; for it was so hot that it burnt my finger?"—the policeman went and took hold of it, and said it was quite warm then—the prisoner then said she had just done it in lighting a candle and sealing a letter.

Cross-examined. Q. Did she not appear agitated and confused? A. Not at all—Mrs. Deane seemed much alarmed—it was a small room—I should think the bed was within four or five feet of the place that was burnt.

EDMUND BUCKLEY . (Police serjeant, P 17). I was called to Mrs. Deane's house by Moon—I took the prisoner in charge, took her up stairs, and examined the bed—I found a corner of the bed burnt—the blanket was scorched and the sheet burnt, and the feathers and bolster—there was a candle standing at a table at the opposite end of the room—it did not appear to have been recently lighted—there was some furniture in the room, some chairs, and some boxes—Moon pointed out some woodwork that was burnt, and said that the prisoner had been trying to set that place on fire—she said it had been done two or three days ago—I felt it—it was hot, and I remarked to the prisoner that it was quite hot then—she then said it had been done this morning while she was sealing a letter—the wood was burnt I should think nearly half an inch in.

Cross-examined. Q. How far do you think the bed was from the wood work that was burnt? A. I should think ten or twelve feet—the candle was burnt down in the socket.


17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-865
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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865. ELIZA PETERS was again indicted for stealing 1 waistcoat, 1 blanket, and other articles; the goods of William Deane.

MR. W. J. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.

SUSANNAH ANN DEANE . I am the wife of William Deane. I missed from the room the prisoner occupied, a pillow, a blanket, a pair of white trowsers, a table cover, and a waistcoat—the trowsers and waistcoat were in boxes—she had no right to deal with any of those things—I have not found them all—the blanket was on her bed.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. Who had lived there before the prisoner? A. The room had been unoccupied some time, and it was locked up all day, but my children slept there—I saw the blanket and table cover on the night the prisoner took possession—I left the boxes there because she said they would not be in her way; they were not locked, as we did not think her dishonest—she came alone—I never saw her husband—she told me that he had started for America.

EDWABD GIBBS . I am assistant to John Hedges, a pawnbroker. I produce a table cover, a victorine, a pair of trowsers, and a waistcoat, pledged on 14th July, by the prisoner, for 2s.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you receive them personally? A. Yes, between 2 and 3 o'clock in the day—I have had many transactions with her, and cannot be mistaken.

JAMES CASEY . I am assistant to William Eaton, a pawnbroker, of York Street, Westminster—I took this blanket in pledge of a female, I cannot say who.

GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-866
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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CLARK (24), Robbery on George Johnson, and stealing from his person 1 watch and 5l. in money; his property.

MR. METCALFE. conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE JOHNSON . I keep the Salisbury Arms, Bear Street, Leicester Square. On Tuesday morning, 28th July, about 3 o'clock, some persons came to my house with two females—I had closed the house, but they knocked, and I let in Jones and Gough—there were also two men, who are not in custody—they were the only four customers in the house—they drank to the amount of 2s.—I asked for payment, a watch was tendered to me, and I was asked to lend 5s., which I did, and took the watch—I had seen Gough several times before—they remained till about half past 5 o'clock; I then missed one of them, and was seized from behind by an arm round my throat—they then all rushed round, seized me, and rifled my pockets—I had got two 5l. notes, nine sovereigns, and a lot of silver—with what I picked up, I had 15l. remaining; I lost 5l. and the watch, upon which I had lent them 12s.—all the four men took part in it—I noticed Gough and Jones at the time it was going on, but should not like to swear to Liversage—I have an indistinct recollection of seeing him just at the time I was attacked—I became insensible—I struggled very much, and broke a great quantity of glasses—I heard one of them say, "Give it him tighter;" and when I recovered, I found myself in a pool of blood behind the bar—I got up, and sent for a policeman.

Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. Do you keep your house open all night? A. No, but sometimes to 2 or 3 o'clock—we close it up, but if any one knocks, we let them in, but not ladies—the drink the men had amounted to 12s., including the 5s. I lent them—the four of them had 7s. worth between 3 o'clock and 5—my family had gone to bed—mine is not a night house, but if I do badly during the day I sit up—my family had gone to bed—the men stood in front of the bar, bat it is a very large bar, and sometimes I was at the other end—no one else came in, that I recollect—Jones and Goff were in front of me I believe when I was seized by the throat—the moment I was seized they all rushed behind the bar, and assisted in the robbery—I saw them distinctly after I was seized—I got away once, and they seized me again—I do not recollect any dispute about the reckoning—we did not get quarrelling, and fight—I have not found the watch or anything which I can identify as having been taken from me.

Cross-examined by MR. M. J. O'CONNELL. Q. What drink did you serve to them? A. Brandy, lemonade, and ale—I will undertake to say that the four men remained all the time—I did not send for a doctor—I was perfectly sober—a great many people employed at hotels and theatres come at that time of night—the money and watch were in my trowsers pocket, and the notes in my fob—the silver was in one pocket, and the gold in the other.

MR. METCALFE. Q. You say that they went to the door several times; do you know whether a fifth man was let in? A. I believe so; there was the opportunity of doing so.

WILLIAM BATTY . (Policeman, C 134). I was on duty in Castle Street, on Tuesday, 28th July, and saw Gough come out several times and speak to the two females, who were under an archway, about ten yards off, and then return to the public house—about 5 o'clock he came out and called to them, and then I saw Liversage look out at the public house door; at a quarter or half past 5 o'clock, I saw Gough leave with the two females, and go down Castle Street with them—I had heard no noise, the road was between me

and the house—about 20 minutes to 6 o'clock I saw Liversage and two more men leave the house—at a few minutes before 6 o'clock the prosecutor came to me, and I went into the house; he made a statement to me, it was not confused; he had been drinking, but he seemed to understand what he was about—I found the house in great confusion, a great number of glasses were broken, and a board was placed at the door, apparently to prevent Johnson's coming out—I had not seen any of the men come to the door before the three men left.

Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. What sort of people frequent the house? A. I have seen the prisoners there, and women who beg about the Haymarket—I have only been upon the beat three weeks.

Cross-examined by MR. M. J. O'CONNELL. Q. Where were the female prisoners? A. Under an arch, about ten yards from the house, on the same side—it had been raining.

Liversage. Q. Did you see me come out? A. I saw you look out about a quarter past 5 o'clock, and about ten minutes after that Johnson made a complaint to me.

Gringer. I was standing under the archway because it was pouring with rain.

WILLIAM GLASS . (Police sergeant, C 3). On 29th July, a charge was made against Gough at the station, and he said, "I know nothing about it, I was not near the place at all that night"—on Friday, 31st I apprehended Jones at the House of Detention—I was in the act of telling him the charge, and he said, "I know what you are going to say, but I was not near the place at all that night"—I apprehended Liversage, and told him that I was a constable, the moment I said that he attempted to run away; I was surrounded by thieves and bad characters, he commenced kicking, and I was thrown down several times, and kicked and beaten about the body and head—Liversage was calling out to his companions, "Bite the b—, bite his d—arm"—I have the marks of his teeth on my arm now, and a very large bruise on my ribs.

JOHN M'DONALD . (Policeman, C 135). On 29th July, between 1 and 2 o'clock in the morning, I took Goff in the Haymarket; he passed something to Jones, who was with him, but I could not see what it was—I kept Goff on a charge of picking pockets; Jones walked away and was not taken till afterwards.

THE COURT. considered that there was no evidence against


GOFF, JONES, and LIVERSAGE— GUILTY .— Fifteen Tears Penal Servitude.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-867
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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867. GEORGE COX (41), Feloniously stabbing Caroline Cox, with intent to murder her.

MR. W. J. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.

CAROLINE COX . The prisoner is my husband; we have been married twenty—two years. For some little time past we have not been living together—on the last day of last year I went to the theatre, and there met a person named William Forty; we conversed together, but merely concerning the performance, and after it was over he went to his home, and I to mine—I saw him several times afterwards, and on 7th or 8th March, I went to be his housekeeper—I ceased to live at his house on Tuesday, 14th July, and went to No. 2, Smith Street, Percival Street, Goswell Road—the prisoner came there on 20th July, about 9 o'clock in the morning, to see if I would give him some breakfast—he took my breakfast, my daughter was having her breakfast, and I was going to a dispensary in Aldersgate

Street—the prisoner came out and walked with me; on the way I called at Harley Street, Hoxton—the prisoner went into his own residence there, and afterwards went to the dispensary with me; I left him outside, waiting—I came to the door three or four times and saw him there, and when I came out the last time he was talking to William Forty—I went across and spoke to them—we then all walked together to the Angel public house; there was no quarreling going along—we went in, my husband sat next to me, and Forty next to him, the prisoner was between us—I had some half and half, and a biscuit, and Forty paid for it—Forty said to me, "You do not eat your biscuit;" my husband said, "She does not respect the giver, or else she would eat her biscuit"—another pot was called for; I asked the prisoner to pay for it, and he struck me on the face with his fist—Forty got up, and said, "If that is your game, George, I am off," and went out of the house—my husband followed him, and I went out and saw them in the road—I heard some person say, "Mind, he has got a knife"—I ran away, and my husband ran after me, he caught a slight hold, and I ran farther on—when I got to a tobacconist's shop I fell down, and the prisoner then struck me, once on the shoulder, and once on the back, with a dagger—I had often seen a white handled dagger in his possession at home—I bled a great deal, and was taken to St. Bartholomew's Hospital—my husband knew that I was at Forty's house; he has said that he would have money or revenge—he has repeatedly said that all he required was money, that he did not wish me to live with him; if he had money he would take a girl, and that was all he wanted, and I could live with he knew who.

Cross-examined by MR. M. J. O'CONNELL. Q. Are you very unwell? A. I have not been well for some time—I have not been walking about five minutes—I have been sitting in the hall, to be called in, ever since the morning, with the witnesses—I have not been laughing or joking—since this I have been living at the prisoner's house, No. 1, Harley Street, Hoxton—the last situation the prisoner held was at the Chinese Exhibition, at Brighton—his last situation in London was at the Rosemary Branch Gardens—he has been a money taker at theatres—I lived at Forty's three months. I think, before my husband was aware of it—I did not tell him where I was going; he ordered me and his daughters to pay him rent, or leave his house—we would not do so, and I took the apartment for my daughters—I lived with Forty as his wife, and was called Mrs. Forty by the lodgers—he asked his son how he liked his new mother-in-law, but he never called me his wife—my husband saw me during the three months I was living with Forty, but he did not know where I was lodging—I told him on this day that I had left Forty's house; I did not say that I would return home at the end of the week, when my time was up—I promised to see him again that day, and I met him; he left me in Goswell Street, and I came back and told him to go away, that a man was watching him—about half past 10 o'clock that night Forty came, and knocked at the street door, and I opened it—I had not told my husband that they did not know at Forty's where I had gone to—my husband struck Forty on his head, and made him bleed, and the police came, but Forty would not give him in charge—I told my husband that I was parted from Forty; I told him that on purpose to keep him from Forty, because he has threatened his life so many times—he had tried to get money from Forty; first 30l., and then 20l., and at last he came down to 5l., and if I had given him money I might have stayed—I knew that both my life and Forty's were to be sacrificed, unless 5l. was paid—I was at my husband's house each day—my husband

wanted me to give my likeness to Forty, and he stood by while it was taken—I should not have done so if my husband had not mentioned it—he did not ask me to return home on the Saturday—he took me by the throat, and swore he would choke me, because I said that he was selling all the things—I said that I would not leave Smith Street till my week was up, and he asked me whether I intended giving him money, or whether I intended to return home—the lowest sum he named was 5l.—I went out about half past 7 o'clock, and returned alone about half past 10, and the prisoner told me on Monday morning that he was there waiting till I in the morning on purpose to murder Forty and me—I do not know whether he expected to find Forty with me—he asked me on Sunday morning whether I had been with Forty, and I said, "No"—that was true—I had no engagement at the dispensary on Monday morning, and had not the slightest idea of seeing Forty there; it is in Bartholomew Close—I came to the door to see whether my husband was there, because he had threatened to go to Forty, and I was afraid he would do so, as it was so near—(I went home to No. 1, Harley Street, to see my daughter, who was staying with the prisoner)—when I came out and saw my husband and Forty, I said, "William, George accuses me of seeing you last Saturday night"—William said, "I have satisfied him that I did not"—I named to Forty, in my husband's presence, that my husband did not want me, he wanted money; and then we went to this public house, which is not very far from the dispensary—Forty said nothing about being able to keep me, in defiance of the prisoner, nor that he had been in the prize ring, and could kill a dozen such as the prisoner—nothing was said about tossing up for which should take possession of me, or about the winner standing a sovereign—the prisoner was not at all excited during the conversation in the public house; he was perfectly calm till I whispered to him to pay for the beer, and then he struck me in the face—nothing had been said by either of us—before we went in, Forty said, "You have the woman, and you do not know how to use her; but her temper is bad"—he did not say, in my hearing, that I was the best bedfellow he had ever slept with—the prisoner did not ask Forty to desist from such observations in the public house—Forty did not say, "Come, old girl," or any words to that effect—my daughters came to see me at St. Bartholomew's Hospital; they told me that the prisoner had been examined, but they were not present.

MR. PAYNE. Q. Had any one said anything to you in the hospital about what took place before the Magistrate? A. The clothes were sent in one day in a newspaper, and the first thing I cast my eye upon was my husband's name—I had had nothing to do with Forty for a week; he came to my house one morning, and lent me some money, because I intended to go to London when I left him, and he said, "Until you procure something to do, I will assist you"—the first time I saw him was at the theatre—I met him there with his daughter.

WILLIAM FORTY . I am a bootmaker, of No. 33, Edmondson Place, Aldersgate Street. I have known the prisoner from four to five months—I met him on Monday, 20th July, about half past 1 o'clock, at the end of Queen Square, Bartholomew Close—I said, "Well, George, what has brought you here?"—he said, "Well, William, I came to see if you had seen Caroline yesterday"—I said, "No, I have not"—he said, "I thought you had"—I said that I had had too much trouble to see her, or any person else, and showed him two distress warrants for rent which were put into my

house—he said, "You are sure of it, William?"—I said, "I am going to the Alderman to ask his advice how to act respecting the goods," and asked him if he had seen Caroline—he said, "No," and that he was satisfied—we walked together some little way, and the wife came up, and I said, "George, you knew where the female was all the time; what is the good of playing tricks with me in that manner?"—he walked before us all the way to St. Martin's le Grand, and then I asked him if he would have something to drink—we went into the Angel public house; she sat on his left, and I on his right—I called for a pot of half-and-half—he asked his wife if she would have a biscuit—she said, "Yes," and I paid half a crown for what we had—I said, "Will you have any more?"—he said that he would, and a second pot was called for, but it was not tasted, for his wife whispered something in his ear, and he gave her a slap on the mouth with the back of his hand, and made it bleed—I said, "George, if that is your game, I will leave you;" and I went out of the house and got against the shaft of a cart which was going by, and was almost dragged to the ground—at that moment the prisoner stabbed me sideways on this shoulder with a dagger—my son was on the other side of the way; he did not go into the public house; he took me to the hospital.

Cross-examined. Q. Had you been out of the public house at all? A. No, I never rose from my seat—I am a journeyman; I worked for one master twenty years—Mrs. Cox lived with me about four months, from 8th March, as housekeeper—we lived together as man and wife—I never told the prisoner I had married her—he knew me four or five months before he found out where I lived; I did not take the trouble to let him know; I gave him some false name—this happened on the same side of Aldersgate Street as the Post Office; Bartholomew Close is on the opposite side—while I was in the public house my son was close handy—he followed me to the public house, and was there when I came out—I told him to walk on the opposite side, as there was Carrion George—I did not hear what the prisoner's wife said to him in the public house—he has been at my house two or three times—I have never had an unfeeling word from him—he was perfectly quiet till his wife whispered to him—he ran after me without any reason, and stabbed me—no observation had been made about his wife washing shirts well—I said nothing about his wife being a good bed fellow—he was in a good humour when I met him—I said something about his wife having been with me on the Saturday night.

MR. PAYNE. Q. Was there anything in the shape of jeering or larking in the public house? A. Not a thing.

EDWARD EVANS . I live at Homerton, I was in St. Martin's le Grand on this afternoon, and heard a cry of "Murder!" and in a minute afterwards the prosecutrix rushed across the road, and then Forty, and then the prisoner—Forty ran at my horse's head, and fell, and the prisoner stabbed him on the shoulder with a dagger, or knife, and then ran after the prosecutrix; she crossed the road again, and went to a tobacconist's window, about twenty yards from the public house, and either knocked or pushed her down, and then I saw him stab her once on the back—a policeman came, and he was taken.

FRANCIS WAKEFUL SKAY . I am one of the house surgeons, of St. Bartholomew's Hospital. The prosecutrix was brought there, with two stabs both on the back of the shoulder, on the blade bone, just to the depth of the muscles, about an inch deep, down to the bone—they were not dangerous,

they healed very rapidly—Forty had a wound about three inches deep, on the chest; he did not lose much blood—this dagger (produced) might very well have done it.

JOHN ANDREWS . (City policeman 167). I took the prisoner into custody—this dagger was taken from his hand.

Cross-examined. Q. By whom? A. By a gentleman in the crowd, who handed it to me at once.

MARIA HILL . I live in the same house as the prisoner. On Sunday, 19th July, the day before this occurred, the prisoner came into my brother-in-law's room, and said, "Miss Hill, I cannot endure this respecting my wife"—he said nothing about using a dagger, or knife, nor did I ever see one in his possession.

Cross-examined. Q. How long have you known him? A. Two months, living in the same house with him—he appeared to be in a great state of distraction and agony of mind.

WILLIAM FORTT . re-examined. About the 1st or 2nd July, after the prosecutrix had left my house, the prisoner came to me, and said, "If you can not prevail upon her to come home, I will let her stay with you; but you must let her come to my house twice a week."

GUILTY. of unlawfully Wounding.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury. — Confined Six Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-868
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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868. HENRY WOOD (22), Feloniously sending to James Ware a letter threatening to accuse him of an infamous crime, with intent to extort money.

MR. LEWIS. conducted the Prosecution, and MR. METCALFE. the Defence. The evidence was unfit for publication.

GUILTY .— Penal Servitude for Life ,

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-869
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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869. MICHAEL SULLIVAN. (61), Feloniously carnally knowing and abusing Elizabeth Haley, aged 9 years and 11 months.

MR. SLEIGH. conducted the Prosecution.

GUILTY. of the attempt. — Confined Eighteen Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-870
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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870. WILLIAM SAUNDERS (27), Feloniously stabbing and wounding Louisa Harriet Saunders, with intent to do her grievous bodily harm.

LOUISA HARRIET SAUNDERS . The prisoner is my husband, we have been married turned five years. He went into the navy about three years ago—some months afterwards I went to live with another young man—I had a child by him; the prisoner afterwards came home, he came to where I was, and I went to live with him again; the child was not living with us, the father took it away and put it out to wet nurse—last month I went to see it; I had been there about ten minutes, when the father came there to pay something to the nurse—he had been there about a quarter of an hour when my husband came into the room—I was nursing the baby—he said, "Oh, this is no more than I expected; give me the key of my room, and I will go home and sell everything"—I gave him the key, and he went away directly—I saw him again on thursday, 6th Aug., he came up stairs, I was in the room by myself, at least the baby was lying on the floor on a pillow—he said, "I want you"—I said, "want me what for?"—he said. "Oh, I will tell you;" he caught hold of my two hands, and knelt on me on the bed, and was rummaging in his Guernsey for his knife—I said, "My God, William, are you going to murder me?"—he said, "Don't halloo," and he commenced stabbing me; only one cut me, but there were several cuts in my dress—the knife broke—it bruised my thigh, but did not cut the flesh.

Cross-examined by MR. HORRY. Q. He left you 1l. a month out of his wages, did he not? A. For a year and nine months—I received it up to his coming home in July last, from Nov. 1855—when he left I was paid 2l. in advance—I was then living in Lowndes Court, Carnaby Street—he left me a little home and furniture, but he left me arrears of rent—I afterwards got work at Hyams's—I earned on an average 14s. or 15s. a week—I have lived with Wenman fifteen months—he came to my lodging, not to where I had been living with my husband—I moved from there, my landlady took my things away for the rent, and turned me out of doors a week after my husband left—I got the things back again, by working and paying for them—I lived with my mother at the time I first knew Wenman—I left her and went to live with him—I received two letters from my husband while he was abroad, the last was Sept twelve months—he went away in the Castor—I wrote seven letters to him, the last was Feb. 12th, and he only answered one—I was not living with Wenman when I wrote to him, I was living with my mother when I wrote the last letter; I went to live with Wenman in April—I was living with Wenman in Dudley Street, when my husband came home—he was at home nearly a week before he found me out—he knocked at the door and wanted to come in, Wenman's mother tried to keep him out—I said, "Oh, my God! he will kill me"—Wenman was in the room, and the child on the bed; the prisoner burst the door open, and rushed down the stairs—everything in the room was his—there was an old box and a chest of drawers, but the drawers were not his, I bought them while he was at sea—he said he would pay the week's rent, and take the box away; at first he said he would take all the things away—I do not know why he did not—he went out with Wenman, at least by himself at first, and then he came back—I did not go after him the next day, I was crossing the Five Dials, and he saw me and called me—I asked him whether he would for give me—he went with me to my mother's—he afterwards agreed to take me back on condition that I would give up my baby—we went to live in King's Place, St. James's—Wenman sent a letter to my mother's house, requesting me to send my baby's clothes home; my husband was there at the time—Wenman never applied to me to come back to him, I swear that; I have not had any communication whatever with him since I went back to my husband—I knew of my husband talking of going to Portsmouth, to see if he could get another ship—next morning we had breakfast at a young man's, named Thomas Arthur; my husband then bade me good bye, and left me as if he was going to Portsmouth—after that I went to the nurse's house, No. 21, Lumber Court, to take the baby a little chemise—Wenman does not live there, he lives in Short's Gardens—I did not tell my husband I was going to the nurse's; he came in while I was there, I was surprised to see him—I had promised him that I would give up Wenman altogether, and that I would give my baby up, but that I must see her—it was on 6th Aug. that he stabbed me, that was at the same place where my baby was at nurse, No. 21, Lumber Court, I was afraid to go home, my husband said he would sell all my home, and I heard that he had done so, and he went to where I worked and threatened my life—Wenman was not with me when my husband came to me on the Thursday, no one was there but my baby—he did not tell me that he wanted the duplicates of the things that were pawned, he did not say that I had got them in my pocket—he did not attempt to get at my pocket—he threw me on the bed and knelt on me, and got his knife out of his Guernsey, and commenced stabbing me—I know Mrs. Hopper—I told her that I would sell her my drawers, and buy myself some clothes with the

money; I did not say I would sell all my things and buy new ones, so that if my husband came back he should not know them—I had no stays on when this happened.

JOHN HUMPHREYS . I am house surgeon at Charing Cross Hospital. I saw the prosecutrix on 6th Aug., I found an incised wound on the upper part of her left fore arm, it was a superficial wound—there was a bruise under the left breast.

WILLIAM ARTHUR . (Policeman, F 48). The prisoner was given into my custody by Richard Payne—on taking him to the station, he said he did not care a d—for what he had done, he wished he had killed her, he would not mind swinging for it to-morrow; she was bleeding from the wound in the arm—I have the knife, it is broken—she said it was broken on her breast.

Cross-examined. Q. Was he committed from Marlborough Street? A. Yes; the gaoler there was attacked in the cell by a man, and the prisoner came out and helped him, and saved his life.

RICHARD PAYNE . I lodge at No. 21, Lumber Court On 6th Aug., I was sitting at my work, and heard a small outcry in the passage—the prosecutrix rushed into the room, and said, "For God's sake men save me"—I immediately got up from my work, got between her and the prisoner, and prevented him from doing her any further injury—I called a policeman, and gave him into custody.

GUILTY.—Strongly recommended to mercy by the Jury, on account of the provocation he had received. — Confined Three Months.

NEW COURT.—Thursday, August 20th, 1857.

PRESENT—Mr. Justice CROWDER.; Sir CHAPMAN MARSHALL ., Knt., Ald.; Sir JAMES DUKE ., Bart., M. P., Ald.; and MICHAEL PRENDERGAST ., Esq., Q. C.

For cases tried this day, see Essex and Surrey Cases.

THIRD COURT.—Thursday, August 20th, 1857.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Seventh Jury.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-871
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

871. GEORGE MORLEY (22) and JAMES SMITH (21), Burglary in the dwelling house of Christopher Procter, and stealing therein 1 candle stick, 1 basket, and other articles, value 10l.; his property.

MR. COOPER. conducted the Prosecution

WILLIAM HILL . (Policeman, S 39). I was near the Regent's Park on Sunday morning, 5th July, between 2 and 3 o'clock—I saw tax people at a coffee stall opposite Trinity Church, 200 or 300 yards from Cambridge Terrace—the prisoners were two of them.

Cross-examined by MS. RIBTOIT. Q. Have you ever appeared I this case before? A. No—I stated what I had seen, the next night, to the constable on the beat; I told him there were four men at the stall that I did not like the appearance of—I did not go before the Magistrate—the

coffee stall is kept open all night; a woman keeps it—I am patrol sergeant—I have many times passed and seen people there—I saw four men drinking coffee—there were six men altogether at the stall.

RICHARD FAITHFUL . I am a coach body maker; I live at No. 6, Little Marylebone Street. On Sunday morning, 5th July, I was with a friend in the Regent's Park—at about half past 4 o'clock my attention was directed to No. 5, Cambridge Terrace, by what I thought was a bang at the door, a loud slap—I saw the prisoner Smith on the step of the door, and Morley on the pavement close to him—I then saw them go to the carriage way of the crescent, and come out to towards the Park; they went across the park railings—I followed them up till I reached the constable—I saw the con stables standing in the distance; the prisoners were going towards them—I gave the constables the alarm; I sung out, "Stop them!"—when I got up to the constables I gave Morley into custody—the constables said, "What do you charge this man with?"—I said, "Coming out of a house in Cambridge Terrace"—the said, "Can you show me the house?"—Morley, when I said, "Coming out of the house," made the remark, "You do not mean me"—I went with the constables, and showed them the house—after we got out of the Park we met a third constable, and close to the station Morley was in the act of pulling out a pistol at the constable—Smith was in custody when I went round and showed them the house.

Cross-examined. Q. How came you out at that hour of the morning? A. I was going fishing—William Thelwall, a writer, was with me—he went along with me when I gave the men into custody, and when I showed the constables the house—he was not examined before the Magistrates—I saw Morley at the coffee stall—I was twelve or thirteen yards off—there are only two steps to the door of the house in Cambridge Terrace—I saw Morley in the act of turning himself round off the steps—I saw the two men walk on towards the policemen—all that Morley said when I charged him was, "You do not mean me."

HENRY PALMER . (Policeman, S 137). I was in the Regent's Park on Sunday morning, 5th July—at about half past 4 o'clock, as near as I can say, I saw the two prisoners come off Cambridge Terrace—I was between 200 and 300 yards 0ff, I cannot say exactly—they came towards us, and when they got within I should think, about forty yards of us, Smith crossed over on to the opposite side, and went by to the side of the Park rails—Morley kept on the same side—when they got a short distance past us, Smith came over to Morley again—we then went after them—Smith turned round, and saw us following, and ran away—we both ran after them—I caught Morley, and my brother constable Berridge ran after Smith—he was stopped by the Park gate keeper, who had him in custody—the witness Faithful came up just as I had got Morley into custody—the other constable brought Smith back—I said to Morley, "What have you been doing in Cambridge Terrace?"—he said, "I have not been on the terrace, I came in at the Chester Gate"—I said, "I am satisfied you have done something wrong, and you must go with me to the station house"——Faithful said that they came out of the house in Cambridge Terrace—he said he thought he heard something like a slam of the door—I said, "Can you show me the house?"—he said, "I cannot exactly, but I know within a door or two"—I then went to the terrace, and saw some compo work knocked off the portico of No. 6—we then took them to the station house—the part of No. 6 broken away was next to No. 5—there are two posts, or pillars—there is one portico to two doors—a person getting into

No. 5 could get into No. 6 just the same way, just the same as getting up a ladder—just as I was turning the corner into Little Albany Street with Morley; A. 385 came down behind—I heard him say, "Look out, he has a loaded pistol in his hand"—I was on Morley's left hand side at the time—I looked round, and saw the pistol in his right hand—it was just in a raising position—his thumb was on the cock, and his finger underneath, near the trigger—the pistol was towards me—the other constable then seized his hand almost directly he called out to me; we then had a struggle together, and we all fell down together, all three of us—Morley said, "I shall not leave go of it, I shall not give it up," or something to that effect, I cannot exactly recollect the words now—we had a struggle together—he kicked Townsend on his right hand—we resisted very much—I got the pistol away—he said, "I intended to shoot myself"—when I reached the station, I searched him—I found in the pistol twelve shots and some powder—I only found three halfpence on Morley—I was present when Smith was searched; I cannot say what was found upon him—after searching them, I returned to the house, in company with A 386—I observed the drawing room window open, and then I rang the bell—I went up to the drawing room doors, and found them fastened inside—the window had been forced open, the catch forced out, and also the shutter forced open—I got into the drawing room by the aid of a ladder—I found the door had been fastened inside by a little bolt—the door presented the appearance as if it had been fired, just against the lock—if the wood had been fired away, it would have exposed the lock, and the door might have been opened—it was both the door and the door post—the door was not burnt quite so much as the post—I saw the chips; I have got some here—they had been cut off the post, and were lying on the carpet—they appeared to have been cut, and there were some burnt—there were some that had been cut out before it was burnt—I called in a carpenter.

Cross-examined. Q. This was at No. 5? A. Yes, the same house where I found the shutters forced up—whoever had entered the house must have got in by the drawing room window—the window is ten or twelve feet from the ground—I could have got up myself without a ladder—it is all the same as going up a pair of steps round the column—it is a square block—I cannot say that the pistol was cocked at the time I took it out of Morley's hand—it was neither on the full cock or half cock—it was raised off the cap—it was not even half cocked—it rested on the thumb—Chester Gate is about 100 yards from the Terrace, perhaps not so much as that—I asked him what he had been on the Terrace for—he had not heard then what Faithful had said to me—it was before Faithful said anything that I spoke to him—I knew nothing about anything happening on the Terrace before that—I saw him come out of the Terrace—when Smith saw me, he crossed over—Morley passed me; I did not bid him good morning, I never spoke—he had got about twenty or thirty yards before Smith joined him again; then they walked on together, and we followed—when I told him he must go to the station, Morley said, "Very well; I have done nothing"—he walked quietly up the walk with me—that was before I went to the house—I did not notice anybody halloo out before I saw the prisoner—I thought they looked suspicious characters—I did not stop them in consequence of any outcry.

CHARLES BERBIDGB . (Policeman, A 386). I was in the Regent's Park on the morning of 5th July, near the corner of St. Ann's Place—it was about

half past 4 o'clock—I saw the prisoners—I had just passed Cambridge Terrace—I took Smith to the station, and searched him—I found on him a silver taper stand, a thimble, a silver bodkin case, a child's locket, a tape measure, a pair of scissors, and a knife; it was a shut knife, with a spring handle—I went back to the house with the other constable.

Cross-examined.s Q. Do you produce the articles found on Smith? A. Yes—I examined the drawing room—there were several things piled about, and a glass broken in a flower stand—all the things were knocked about in the room—I did not search Morley—I found several lucifer matches in the drawing room.

CHRISTOPHER PROCTER . I am a solicitor, and reside at No. 5, Cambridge Terrace. I was awoke between 4 and 5 o'clock in the morning of Sunday, 5th July, by a noise which I thought was in the nursery—in consequence of the noise, I descended the staircase—I smelt a very strong smell of burning—very soon after the bell rang, and the police came in—I tried the drawing room door, and found it fastened inside—it had been locked on the side next the passage—I had double locked it—I had seen all the doors of the house secured the night before, the window of the drawing room, and also the shutters, were secured—when the police came I entered the drawing room—T found everything in confusion, and the drawers pulled out—everything had been searched—the articles produced were the only silver things there—they are my property—they were in the drawing room on the night before, when I went to bed.

Cross-examined. Q. There were no other articles lost? A. No, but there were several things broken, a flower stand, and other things.

THOMAS MILLER . (Police sergeant, S 41). The pistol now produced was given to me by Townsend—I unloaded it; it was loaded with twelve duck shots and some powder.

GEORGE TOWNBEND . re-examined. I gave the pistol to the last witness—I took it from Morley.

Smith's Defence (written). About half past 4 o'clock, on the morning of 5th July, I was walking along Regent's Park, when I saw something lying on the steps of the door in Cambridge Terrace; I went and looked to see what it was, and saw the articles produced; I picked them up, and put them into my pocket, and walked away; when I had walked a few yards I saw two policemen standing at the corner of the street; I passed them, and had not proceeded far before I heard somebody call out, "Stop him!" turned round, and saw the gate keeper of the Regent's Park; I asked him what he wanted; he said, "You have done something wrong; you must go back with me; "I went back with him into Regent's Park, when he gave me into the custody of a policeman; I asked him what he wanted me for; he said, "You have come out of one of the houses in Cambridge Terrace;" I asked him who told him so; he said, "This young man," who was standing by the side of him; I asked him whether he could show the policeman which house it was; he said, no, he could not tell exactly which house it was, but when he got to the police Court next day he said he saw me come out of No. 5, Cambridge Terrace, but none of the doors had been unfastened, so that he could not have seen me come out of the house.


Both the prisoners were further charged with having been before convicted; to which they


MORLEY— Ten Years Penal Servitude.

SMITH— Six Years Penal Servitude.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-872
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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872. MARY ANN CROFT , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin: to which she

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-873
VerdictsGuilty > lesser offence; Guilty > pleaded guilty

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873. TIMOTHY DONOVAN, (18) Robbery upon Rachel Jacobs, and stealing from her person 1 ring; the goods of Robert Jacobs.

MR. ORRIDGE. conducted the Prosecution.

RACHEL JACOBS. I am the wife of Robert Jacobs, of No. 7, Dock Street, Whitechapel. On Tuesday evening, 11th Aug., I was going to the Sydney Smith public house, in Dock Street, between 6 and 7 o'clock. I do not think the prisoner is the man I saw there; I think it was a taller man—I have never seen the prisoner before to-day—it was a taller man that I saw at the station house—he is the man I saw before the Magistrate—I made a statement before the Magistrate—it was read over to me, and I signed it—the prisoner is not the man who assaulted me—I think it was a taller man—after I was knocked down I was carried home—I did not come to my senses until 10 o'clock at night—I went to the station house, and made a complaint to the police—I afterwards learned from the police that a young man had been taken up—I went to the police office, and gave my evidence—the person standing before the Magistrate on the charge at the time looked like that young man—I was asked some questions, and my answers were taken down in writing—I made my mark—this is it—I stated what is written in the deposition—I never missed my ring until 10 o'clock at night—I have said that the prisoner was the man, but since that I have heard that a woman has got my ring—I do not know whether the prisoner is the man or not that took it—he is the man I saw at the station house—the boy that was kicked told me he was the man—I was too much in liquor to know—I was very much in liquor—it was not because I knew it myself that I said he was the man, but because somebody told me so.

ELIZABETH GREEN . I am servant to the last witness. On Tuesday evening, 11th Aug., about half past 6 o'clock, I was close to her in Dock Street, Whitechapel—I saw the prisoner there—I saw that young man ill using her; he was pulling her hair—I was close by, and he struck at me—there were a good many round him.

COURT. Q. Who knocked her down? A. I believe it was the prisoner—he did not say anything when I lifted her up—he ran away directly after he struck me—I did not notice her finger at the time, not till a long while after—I saw the ring safe the same morning.

Cross-examined by MR. HORRY. Q. Was there a scuffle? A. There were a great quantity of people there—I had not been out with my mistress that day—she was going to call her husband to tea—I do not know anything of a woman being there; but they said the woman had the ring—that was three or four days after—the ring was not found—the prisoner was not fighting with anybody when I came up—he had got hold of her hair; he was down on the ground on her—he knocked her down, I was told—I did not see anybody else fighting—I was sober, my mistress was not.

JAMES DRICOLL . I live at East Smithfield. On 11th Aug. I was in Dock Street, Whitechapel, and saw the prisoner there, dragging the prosecutrix by her hair, and after he left off with her he came to the servant—I did not see him do anything besides pull her hair; he was running away from the servant, and I was the only person before him—I looked back; he had hold of my collar, and punched me, and said I was one of them; then he kicked me in the ankle—I fell down, and then he kicked me on the head—I was taken to the hospital—I lost the use of my ankle.

Cross-examined. Q. Where was Mrs. Jacobs? A. Lying down—I did not see the prisoner down—there were several other people there—nobody tried to run after him.

JAMES CHAPMAN . (Policeman.) I took the prisoner in custody on 11th Aug., in Dock Street, for an assault on the last witness—there were two boys close to him—I took hold of the prisoner by his left arm, and he had his right hand in his trowsers pocket—as soon as I took hold of him one of his companions, a young thief, said, "Sling it"—he instantly took something out of his right hand pocket, and passed it to his companion—I made a grab at the companion, but could not catch him—I said, "You have passed something there"—he said, "All right"—I took him to the station, and he was then charged with assaulting the boy—I did not know of the robbery on Mrs. Jacobs till 10 o'clock at night.

GUILTY. *†; of assault, with intent to rob. — Confined Two Years.

There was another indictment against the prisoner for unlawfully assaulting James Driscoll, to which he


17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-874
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

874. WILLIAM POOLE (16) and THOMAS DINEEN, (13) Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of John Whitmore, at St. Clement Danes, with intent to steal.

MR. LEWIS. conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN GRANT. I am in the service of the proprietors of the Illustrated News. The back part of their premises looks into Mr. Whitmore's, and into Greyhound Court; the back premises of both face each other—I heard a noise in the court about half past 2 o'clock in the morning—I was at work—I looked out, and saw the shutter of the coffee room of Mr. Whitmore's house lying on the ground—I saw Poole immediately after, jump from the window into the court, and run away—I am very well acquainted with his features.

THEOPHILUS REDSTALL . (Policeman, F 118.) I took the prisoners into custody at No. 10, Newcastle Court, at about half past 3 o'clock on the morning of 15th Aug.—Poole was in bed—I had seen him three or four times before, the same morning—I had seen him without coat and boots—the corner window of Mr. Whitmore's faces Greyhound Court—I had passed them both in the court between 12 and 2 o'clock—at the station Dineen said that Poole asked leave of his master to allow him (Dineen) to go and help him clean the pots; and when he closed the house, a little before 12 o'clock, Poole cut a notch at the bottom of the bolt where the shutter drops, and left the window unfastened—this was in the presence of Mr. Whitmore—Poole was not present—both the prisoners confessed to being in the house—Dineen stated that Poole told him to come out, and put the shutter up, and watch for a policeman, and whilst he was attempting to put the shutter up it fell down into the court, and gave the alarm—Poole left his employers at about 12 o'clock, and went home with Dineen to Newcastle Court to take their boots off; they put them behind the door, and went back to Mr. Whitmore's house to watch for an opportunity to get in—Dineen stated that they pulled the shutter out with a knife, and both got into the house—after Dineen had finished telling me his statement, I went and asked Poole how he came to get into the house, and what he got in for—he told me he had got in after his master's coppers—(The COURT considered that this evidence must be excluded, the officer having no right to ask questions and not having even cautioned the prisoner)—I asked him first where he had been to the previous night—he said that he was asleep there—he wanted to go home; and when I took him down stairs, and brought Poole down

after him, he directly opened and confessed, and told me what I have stated—I did not tell him I was going to take him into custody; I told him I was going to fetch Poole down stairs for his master to see him—I had told Poole before this as to what he had better confess, but not Dineen, as we were going to the station house—I found a knife on Dineen, which Mr. Whitmore identified at once—I questioned him, and asked how he came by it.

JOHN WHITMORE . I keep a public house in Greyhound Court. I went with a constable to take Poole into custody—I heard Dineen make a statement—Poole was a little before us; he said, "I met Poole one evening in the Strand, and he said, 'Will you assist me in robbing my master's house to-night; I can get plenty of money, and I shall have more time'"—those are his very words—he then said that Poole proposed to him that he should ask me on Friday evening—he did say to me, "Will you allow my cousin to come in and help me with the pots?"—I said, "Who is your cousin?"—he said, "He has lived in this situation before"—when Dineen was confessing to me, he said that he met my boy in the street, and asked him for the 2d. he owed him, and he said, "Will you assist me in robbing my master's house to-night, and then we shall have plenty of money to-morrow?"—that he hesitated a little, but consented to do so—Poole then said to him, "I will ask my master to allow you to come and help me to finish my work to night;" when Poole came in he asked me, and said, 'I have asked my master, and you can come'—we both went in the evening; when I was in, Poole gave me an old piece of stuff that he took out of a drawer, to make a bag, and a needle; I made a bag to put the coppers in; I handed him a knife to cut the hole in the window shutter, where the bolt drops in, and he kept the knife in his pocket to move the shutter; we went about 1 o'clock, intending to get in; we got in, and Poole said to me, 'You had better get outside, and put the shutter up;' in getting up I knocked my shoulder against the shutter, and the shutter fell flat in the court"—Redstall was walking on with Poole when Dineen told me this—where the shutter bolt drops in, appeared safe on the inside; when I went outside the shutter would come out.

DINEEN— GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the jury. — Confined Three Months.

POOLE— GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-875
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

875. JAMES MACK, (21) Robbery on Charles Jackson, and stealing 1 watch, value 3l., 1 purse, value 1s., and 27s. in money; his property.

MR. LILLET. conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES JACKSON . I am a tailor, at No. 23, Milton Street. On the afternoon of 3rd April, I went to the Woolpack public house, in Cumberland Street, between 3 and 4 o'clock—before I went there I had taken part of a pot of porter—I was quite sober—I went to the front of the bar in company with a shopmate named James How—he was sober, and had been with me all the morning—the prisoner was there with a man named Waldern, who was afterwards tried (see page 14)—I entered into conversation with them—I called, for some porter—we asked them to drink, which they did—we were some time in their company, I cannot remember how long—I became insensible—I do not know how long I was in the house when I became insensible, it might be an hour, or not so long—while I was there we are in conversation with the prisoners and his companions—the last thing I recollect in the house was their giving me porter—when I went into the public house I had a watch, and a purse with 1l. 7s. or 8s.—the sovereign was in a small compartment

of the purse by itself, and even with the silver—when I recovered my senses, I found myself at the station house—when I examined my clothes, I discovered directly what I had missed.

Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. Did not you have some rum at the Woolpack? A. I have heard so since; I do not remember drinking any spirits there—I went out between 11 and 12 o'clock in the morning with How—we went to a shopmate's house—we did not go into any other public house—we had the first beer at my shopmate's house, which was sent for—I cannot say how long I was at the Woolpack—I did not go to the Black Dog when I was in my senses; if I went there, I must have been carried there—I do not recollect that in any shape or form I drank any spirits at all—whatever liquor I took, I must have had at the Woolpack—I never was in there before—the landlord told me I had rum in his house; I do not remember it.

MR. LILLEY. Q. During the time you were in the public house, did you see your purse safe? A. Yes, I took the money out of my purse.

JAMES HOW . On the afternoon of 5th April I was in the prosecutor's company—we went to the Woolpack between 3 and 4 o'clock in the afternoon—I saw in front of the bar the prisoner and Waldern—I know the prisoner very well; he had a flannel jacket on—we were there till between 5 and 6 o'clock—liquor was offered to the prisoner and Waldern, which they drank—we were sober when we went into the house; I was quite insensible when I came out—I did not become insensible till I came to the step of the door; I found my senses leaving me—when I came to myself, where I live, at No. 27, Primrose Street, I found my pockets turned inside out—I had lost three or four shillings—I had been robbed.

Cross-examined. Q. How long have you known the Woolpack? A. Since I came to manhood—I have lived at No. 27, Primrose Street eight years—I knew Morgan before he kept a public house; we used to work together—we were in the Woolpack from a little after 3 o'clock to between 5 and 6—I think we were talking and drinking all the time—we did not have any spirits; we had no rum, to my knowledge—I do not know that Morgan told me to go after Jackson and see him home—I was taken home myself; it was not after I had been at the Black Dog—I gave an account of this transaction at the former trial; I cannot alter my first statement—I have heard Morgan say that he served us with three half pints of rum—the prisoner had on a regular flannel jacket.

THOMAS GEE . I am twelve years of age; I live with my father at No. 26, Cumberland Street—I was there on 3rd April last, between 6 and 7 o'clock in the evening—my attention was attracted by two men coming along with Mr. Jackson—they took him to King's Head Court, and laid him down—they had hold of his arms—the prisoner is one, the other was Waldern—they tried to hold him up against the wall; then Waldern robbed him of his porte monnaie, and the prisoner snapped the watch off the guard—Waldern went away and the other followed—I went down King's Head Court, and went up Black Boy Alley—I ran after them; some person stopped me—the prisoner and Waldern met again at the bottom of Quaker Street—they went down Queen Street, and went underneath the arches in Brick Lane, and cleared some money—they were halving some money—they went up Eyre Street, and went into a public house—they went to two beer shops—they went down different streets, and came down Brick Lane, and there they bought some apples—I lost them almost directly

after—I saw a police constable as soon as I got into Holywell Lane, and gave a description of both the men to him—the prisoner had a white flannel jacket on.

Cross-examined. Q. Where are you employed? A. At Mr. Stickwell's—I have seen Waldron before, but not the prisoner—Frederick Jones was with me when I saw them put the man against the wall—there were several other boys there in the street; there was Jones, Bill, and another with me—when I saw them take the watch and purse, I was on the other side of the way.

MR. LILLEY. Q. How long did you keep the prisoner in sight, from the time you first saw him till you lost him? A. About half an hour.

THOMAS LEATHER . (Policeman, C 6). I received some information from the last witness on 5th April—he described the prisoner and Waldern to me—I went in search of the prisoner, and have been on the look out for him for four months—I apprehended Waldern the same night.

EDWARD FLACK . (Policeman, 34 G.) I was on duty in Cumberland Street on 5th April last—I saw Waldern there, in company with the prosecutor and prisoner—it was about 6 o'clock in the evening—I had known Mack for some little time before.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you examined before? A. No; the Magistrate thought there was sufficient evidence without me—when I saw them, they were both leading the prosecutor along Cumberland Street—I spoke to them, and they made reply that they were going to see him home—thinking that their intentions were good, I did hot take any further steps—they were some distance from the Woolpack.

JOSEPH SAYEB . I am turned sixteen years old—I live at No. 16, Leaden-hall Street. I was in King's Head Court, Cumberland Street, on 5th April, at a little before 6 o'clock—I saw the prisoner and Waldern go up to Jackson, and push him up against the wall, and then push him down—Waldern took the purse out of his pocket and walked off and the prisoner took his watch and walked very quickly off—they left the prosecutor lying on the ground.

Cross-examined. Q. At the time they took hold of the prosecutor, where was he? A. Coming through the poets, by himself—there was nobody there but those two men—when they went up to him, he was just at the corner of the court—he was coming along, and they went up and stopped him, and pushed him up against the wall in King's Head Court—I know Waldern by sight—I had never seen the prisoner before—I told my sister-in-law about it—I said I should not know the man unless I saw him; then I might know him.

MR. LILLEY. Q. Where did you see him for the first time afterwards? A. In the police court—I pointed him out to the constable—there were a great many persons sitting round him—when I first saw the prisoner, Waldern, and the prosecutor, they were just in King's Head Court, near the Cumberland Street end; they turned round and caught hold of him just as he got inside the court.

ISAAC WAKEFIELD . (Policeman, G 133). I received information from the sergeant that Mack was wanted—I did not know till May that he was wanted—I took him into custody on 6th August, at 2 o'clock in the morning, in bed—I told him to get up and dress himself, he was wanted for a felony—he said, "It is a bad job; do not say any more than you can help; I will do the best I can; I suppose I shall soon be with Waldern."

Cross-examined. Q. You have never given this evidence before? A. No;

I was not engaged in the first instance—I did not given any evidence before the Magistrate—there was another constable walking by me, just to see that he did not get away, when he said he supposed he should soon be with Waldern.

COURT. Q. Did, he make this statement to you after the examination before the Magistrate, or before? A. Before.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

FOURTH COURT.—Thursday, August 20th, 1857.

PRESENT—Sir JAMES DUKE ., Bart., M. P., Ald.; Mr. Ald. SIDNEY.; Mr. Ald. CARTER.; and MICHAEL PRENDERGAST ., Esq., Q. C.

Before Michael Prendergast, Esq., Q. C., and the Second Jury.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-876
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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876. WILLIAM TERROW, (23) Stealing 2 blankets, 1 bed gown, and other articles, value 7l.; the goods of Susan Bradford, in her dwelling house.

SUSAN BRADFORD . I am a widow and housekeeper, at No. 37, Old Broad Street. On 18th Aug., about 11 o'clock in the morning, I was going up stairs to my room, and saw this bundle on a slab on the third floor landing, and the prisoner by the side of it; he drew back when he saw me, and I called for assistance, and a gentleman came, and caught him coming down stairs—he was held till the police came—the bundle contained two blankets, five sheets, one bolster, one night gown and cap, one quilt, one cape, two curtains, two window blinds, two dresses, and one candlestick, which are my property, and were in my bed room, the door of which was not locked—he had got over a gate which separates the staircase from the rooms—the street door was open—the prisoner said that a lady and gentleman in the passage below had told him to go up for a bundle—there was no lady or gentleman there—his face was familiar to me, and I am sure I have seen him before.

Prisoner's Defence. I am guilty of going into her bed room, but I am not guilty of tying the things up.

GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-877
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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877. EDWARD POWELL, (23) Stealing 1 cask and 56 lbs. weight of tea, value 6l.; the goods of John Horniman and others, in the dwelling house of Henry Lawrence.

MR. CAARTEN. conducted the Prosecution.

JOSIAH HENRY RICHARDSON . I am warehouseman to John Horniman and another, tea dealers, of No. 31, Wormwood Street. On 16th July I packed a chest containing 36 lbs. of tea, and it was delivered to our carman to take to the booking office—we have the booking office keeper's receipt, but it is not here.

ANNIE ROBERTS . I assist in the booking office business at the Half Moon public house, No. 88, Gracechurch Street, kept by Henry Lawrence. On 16th July two chests came from Horniman and Co., by a porter; they were left in front of the bar, and I signed the book—I saw them there next morning, between 8 and 9 o'clock—the prisoner and two others were then there drinking, and two of them were sitting on the chest; one of them had broken his head, and I lent a pair of scissors to cut the hair off; the prisoner dressed the wound—I went up stairs for an hour, leaving them in

front of the bar—I was fetched about 10 o'clock, and one of the chests was gone—I had left the barmaid in the bar; she is not here.

Cross-examined by MR. PEARCE. Q. Did you find the barmaid there when you came down again? A. Yes—the prisoner said that the injured man had fallen from an omnibus and broken his head—I heard nothing about any quarrel or disturbance—the prisoner was in liquor, but was not very drunk—I had not known them before, and I have been three years there—I am not a barmaid, and am not there at fixed hours.

JOHN CRESSY . (Policeman, H 221). On the morning of 17th July, about a quarter past 9 o'clock, I was on duty in Royal Mint Street, and saw the prisoner with a tea chest on his back—Greathead, another constable, who was with me, walked down the other side—the prisoner was about the length of the Court from me; I could see his face—I followed him, perhaps a hundred yards, to Rachel Court, where he turned down; I went about thirty yards up the court, but could not see him—I sent for Greathead, and we went to No. 31, Rachel Court, and afterwards to No. 3—Greathead, who was then before me, called me to the first floor front room, and I there found a bag of tea, this part of a tea chest, a card, and some labels with Horniman's name—this is the same kind of chest which I had seen the prisoner carry—about 10 o'clock I went with Greathead to the Blue Boar public house, Royal Mint Street, and found the prisoner there, lying asleep on a form—I told him what I wanted him for, he made no answer, and I took him into custody.

Cross-examined. Q. Did not he say, "I know nothing about it"? A. When he got to the station he did—I did not take Mrs. Rush to the station for stealing the tea, but for receiving it—we took her out of her house, and then she told us about the prisoner, and a young man, I do not know whether it was her son, told us where, to find him—that was after Mrs. Rush was at the station—I have seen the young man since; I met him in Leman Street—when he took us to the Blue Boar he went in, but he did not point out the prisoner—he said first that he was the man, and then that he was not, but I knew him—he had on a blue Guernsey when I first saw him, and in the public house he had got the Guernsey off, and was in his shirt and trowsers—it was a quarter past 9 o'clock, as near as I can guess it—I went on duty at 9 o'clock, and had got part of the way up my beat—Mrs. Rush was at the station two hours—she was not in a cell; she sat in the charge room—the tea was in twelve packages, some of which were opened—I did not rouse up the prisoner at the public house and say, "This is not the man"—I said, "This is the man"—a man, who Mrs. Rush said was her husband, came out of the court at about 20 minutes after 10 o'clock—I did not see him in the room when I went—Mrs. Rush was there, and a black woman—I have not seen Mr. Rush here to-day—I heard that he had been fighting with the prisoner—I was not aware of that little circumstance of the broken head.

COURT. Q. How often had you seen the prisoner before? A. Forty times—I knew him well.

JOHN GREATHEAD . (Policeman, H 31). On 17th July, about 10 minutes past 9 o'clock in the morning, I was with Cressy, and saw the prisoner, with a chest on his shoulder—he passed me, and I am sure he is the man—Cressy followed him, and I went the other way—I afterwards rejoined Cressy, and went to No. 3, Rachel Court—in the first floor front room I found a woman named Rush, and two girls—I found a gunny bag in the room, with twelve packages of tea in it, one of which was burst open, and

five labels, also this piece of a tea chest—several females live in the house, but it is not a house where anybody goes that likes—Mrs. Rush said that a man brought them there, and I took her to the station house—a lad, of seventeen or eighteen, went with Cressy and I to the Blue Boar public house—we found two or three men there, and the prisoner lying on a settle in front of the bar—I did not recognise him at first, but I lifted him up, saw his face, and then recognised him as the man who had the tea—I knew him before.

Cross-examined. Q. Where did the young man come from? A. From down stairs in the same house—his name is Sheen—he carried the chest for me—he said that he did not like to see Mrs. Rush locked up, and he would show us where the man was who had the chest of tea, or the house which he used—I do not know the man who is living with Mrs. Rush; I did not see him—Mrs. Rush was only before the Magistrate as a witness.

JOHN CRESSY . re-examined. I saw the man who had been fighting in Mint Street—he told me that his name was Rush—I did not know him before.

ELIZABETH RUSH . I am the wife of Thomas Rush, of No. 3, Rachel Court, Whitechapel. I am married to him—we live in the front room on the first floor—I was at work in my room about 9 o'clock on the morning of 17th July—I am a sack maker—I heard a noise, went to the door, and saw the chest burst open, but there was no one there—all the samples of the tea were on the stairs; I gathered it up, and put it into a bag in my room—before I had time to call to any one, a policeman was up, and I gave it to him, and through the fright of it I lost my child—I was taken to the station house—it is now only a fortnight since my confinement.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you say you are married to Thomas Rush? A. Yes—I do not know where he was the night before this tea was brought to the house—I did not see him all night—I did not see him before 12 o'clock the next morning—I was taken to the police station—some boy in the court went with me—I do not know his name—he lives in the bottom room of the same house that I do—he is no relation of mine—I do not know what name he goes by—he is a working chap—he has never been in my room—I know nothing of him—I did not hear him say, at the police station, that he could point out the man that took the tea—there was another girl in the room when the policeman came, that had come up stairs, and another one that was helping me sew some sacks—they all live in the court—I heard a great noise at the door, and then I went and saw this chest—my door was shut, but not locked—I do not know the prisoner—I have seen him passing by—there is no thoroughfare in the court—I do not know where he lives, he does not live in our court—I have seen him passing the top of the lane—I have never seen him in our court—my husband is not here to day, nor the young man Sheen.

JOSIAH HENRY RICHARDSON . re-examined. This is one of the packages that I put into the chest, and is the property of my master—this is a show card—there were five or six of them in the chest.

Cross-examined. Q. Was any of the tea lost? A. There were 2 lbs. short of the 36 lbs.—I prepared two chests of tea to send—it was not a package that was lost; it was enclosed in a wrapper, and same of it was lost.

JOHN CRESSY . re-examined. I searched the prisoner—I did not find any tea upon him.

COURT. to ANNIE ROBERTS. Q. How was the prisoner dressed at the time? A. He had on a blue Guernsey.

GUILTY .**— Confined Nine Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-878
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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878. JULIAN HYMEN, (29) Breaking and entering the counting house of Charles Wylie, with intent to steal.

MR. HORRY. conducted the Prosecution.

MICHAEL HAYDON . I am a detective officer. About 7 o'clock on the evening of 6th July I saw the prisoner in Fleet Street, with a parcel under his arm, wrapped in brown paper—I asked him what he had under his arm—he said, "What is that to you?"—I said, "As an officer, it is my business to ask you?"—he said, "I shall not tell you"—I said, "Where did you get it from?"—he said that he should refuse to tell me—I asked him where he was going to take it to—he said that he got it from a countryman of his in the Blackfriars Road, who was gone to Paris—I took him to the station, and found on him three keys, and five more in his shirt—they had all been filed—he gave me an address—I went to the office of Messrs. Woolner and Wylie, in Mark Lane, on the following day—I found this key opened the counting house door on the first floor—while taking him to the station, I had observed that his left hand was employed in doing something under his trowsers—I said, "What keys have yon got!"—he said, "These three," but his shirt was racked up, and when I examined him, I found the five others in it.

Cross-examined by MR. POLAND. Q. When you first spoke to him, were you in plain clothes? A. Yes—this Post Office Directory (produced) was in the parcel.

RICHARD WOOLNER . I am clerk to Messrs. Woolner and Wylie, No. 79, Mark Lane. I live at Roundhill Terrace, Upper Sydenham—I had a Directory in my office; it is like this one—I speak to it generally—there is a number in it, 3, 929—I saw it safe last on the Saturday previous, on a slab attached to the desk, before 2 o'clock—on Saturdays I usually go away about that time—on the Monday I was there till about 5 o'clock—I was the last that left—we shut up when I go, that is about 5 o'clock.

Cross-examined. Q. Can you swear to that Directory? A. No.

EDWARD GEORGE WATKINS . I am one of the travellers to Messrs. Kelly and co., of the directory offices. I have a book with my name in it, in my writing (produced); I find an entry in its referring to the sale of a Directory to Messrs. Woolner and wylie, in my writing—I can swear I supplied them with a Directory, number 3, 929 (Looking at the number)—I swear that I delivered this book to them.

Cross-examined. Q. Is the number in the Directory in ink? A. Yes, and also in a secret place, known only to the firm—the number in Mark Lane where the firm live is 79.

MR. POLAND. to MICHAEL HAYDON. Q. Did he give you an address? A. Yes, "Charles Street, Blackfriars Road;" I knew it was false at the time—afterwards, at the station, I said, "There is no need for sending me over there upon a fool's errand"—he said, "You need not go, because you will disturb my landlady;" but I did go.

GUILTY .—He was further charged with having been before convicted of felony.

MICHAEL HAYDON . I produce a certificate—(Read: "Giuldhall, West-minister; Julian Goodman, Convicted on his own confession, January, 1852, of stealing an inkstand, and two ink bottles")—I know the prisoner—he is the man.

GUILTY.— Four Years Penal Servitude.

OLD COURT.—Friday, August 21st, 1857.


Sir JAMES DUKE ., Bart., M. P., Ald.; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.

Before Mr. Baron Martin and the First Jury.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-879
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentencesImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude

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879. WILLIAM NORRIS (25) was indicted for stealing 12 lbs. 8ozs. weight of silk, value 25l.; the goods of Benedict Barnard and another, his masters: and JOHN WHALE , Feloniously receiving the same: to which


MESSRS. BODKIN. and METCALFE. conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM NORRIS . (the prisoner). I have pleaded guilty to this charge—I have known Whale some two years, or more—some time ago I was in the service of Messrs. Barnard and Rosenthal—I knew Whale at that time—I then left that service, and went into the service of Messrs. Hutton—I was still acquainted with Whale whilst at Hutton's—I then went back from Hutton's to Messrs. Barnard's again—I think I have been at Barnard's this last time nearly a year—my duty was in the top floor—I knew Whale while I was in the service of Barnards the last time—I have had transactions with him—they commenced about five months since—the first transaction was that of selling a parcel of silk—on that occasion I met him in Cheapside—we were talking together, and the conversation turned on business matters, matters concerning the silk trade—we were talking of the price of silk, and I asked him if he was open to buy a parcel; he said he was—about two or three weeks after that, I took him a parcel of silk—I cannot call to mind the quantity—I should imagine it was about a pound—I took it to his warehouse—I saw him, and asked if he would buy it—he said, "Yes"—he did not ask where I got it from, or anything about it—I got it from Messrs. Barnard's—I took it from them without their knowledge; I stole it—I believe Whale did not at that time know where I was living—I never said anything about being a traveller for a house in Spitalfields, or about coming from Spitalfields—he paid me at the rate of 20s. a pound for it—it was sewing silk, in skeins—I do not think there was an invoice made out for the first transaction—I went to him again, I think, about a week after, within a day or so, more or less—I took another parcel of silk, precisely the same kind as before, and stolen in the same way—I should imagine it was about the same quantity as before, or more—he bought it, and paid the same price for it, 20s. per pound—he paid me for it at the time—I think there was an invoice then given—Whale first mentioned the invoice—I think his remark was, "You had better give me an invoice of this," which I did—it was made out in my own name—he said the price that was to be inserted was 32s., which I put—all these invoices (produced), are in my handwriting—they are all made out at 32s.—I believe there is no date on any one of these—these all relate to the earlier transactions with him—I had nine other transactions with him, after the first two, making eleven in all, for which I gave invoices without dates, and put in the price as 32s.—1l. was the price always paid to me—all these other invoices (produced) are in my handwriting, and have dates—I do not know how many there are—they are all priced at 32s.—I received 1l. for all those—it was quite an oversight not putting the dates to these; Whale mentioned it—I went to him on each of these dates—I had thirty

transactions with him during the five months—there was not a transaction so frequently as every two or three days, sometimes it would be ten or twelve days—I always went to him at dinner time, between 1 and 2 o'clock—I never said anything to him about dinner time—I have made the remark that I wanted to get back at 2 o'clock—I did not state any reason why—I never told him where I got the silk from—I have many times been with him to a public house when I have been about the silk—it was only to one public house—I do not know the sign of it; it is kept by a Mr. Phillips, in the Old Bailey—I have known Whale dine there three times, and I have been to see him there—we used to go back to the warehouse to transact business—he never talked about the business at all before the persons in the public house—I carried the silk to him in parcels and papers—it was done up in a piece of ordinary brown paper, or newspaper, or any waste paper—I believe Whale employs many workpeople—there has been one or two of them in the warehouse at the time I have gone there, but he has dismissed them when I went in to have the transactions—he is a fringe maker by trade—I remember being followed by the officer on 29th July, and being given into custody—I had been at Whale's on the Monday previously—I believe this (produced) is the last invoice I ever gave him—I am quite sure I went on Monday, July 27th—I took him on that day the packet of silk represented by this invoice.

Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. When you went there on that Monday, was he at home, when you left the silk there? A. I think he was—I believe I have left silk there once when he was not at home, and only once—I did not leave my master's premises with the silk wrapped up in paper, I used to conceal it in my pockets—I have been a thief six months—I never was in Whale's shop until I commenced these transactions—I did not know where his shop was; he told me where it was when I first met him in Cheapside—his business is to manufacture the silk into fringes—it is a small business compared with some large houses; it is a very nice business, I believe, from what I could learn—I have never sold goods to anybody else—I did not know I should be called as a witness until just now; I never offered to become a witness—Mr. Wontner came to me eight or nine days since, that was relative to this charge—I never wrote to him, and never said anything to him, nor to the prosecutor—I have written a letter of penitence to Messrs. Barnard—I also sent a note to Mr. Wontner, stating that I wished to see him—I afterwards saw him, and made a statement—I have never sold things that I have stolen to any one else but Whale—this (produced) is the silk—they are all silks that I have taken to Whale, just in that state, and in skeins like that—the silk is manufactured, I believe, in Coventry—it is used by tons, I might say, in Spitalfields.

GEORGE SCOTT . I am one of the detective officers of the City of London. Messrs. Barnard called in the assistance of myself and another officer—I watched their premises for some time—on 29th July, about 1 o'clock in the day, I saw Norris leave the premises; I and my brother officer followed him—he went into Aldersgate Street, into Newgate Street, and into the doorway of the Queen's Arms; when he came out of the doorway, he had this parcel under his arm—he then went into a butcher's shop in Newgate Street, then to a stationer's, and then to Bishop's Court, Old Bailey, where Whale resided—when he went into the stationer's, he procured a newspaper, in which he wrapped his parcel—I did not see where he got the parcel from—I did not see it when he came out of the premises—when he bought the newspaper, he went into the passage of the Queen's

Arms, and into a door way in the passage, and when he came out he had this parcel under his arm, wrapped up in the newspaper—he then went to Bishop's Court; that turns out of the Old Bailey—he went into No. 4 there—I did not then know it as the premises of Mr. Whale, I do now—when he got there, I heard him call Whale—a boy came to him in the passage, and told him Mr. Whale was not at home—I then went up to Norris, and after asking him some questions I took him into custody—I have here the parcel that I found in his possession; it contains sewing silk—as we were coming out of the door, we met Whale—Norris said, "This is Mr. Whale"—I said, "Do you know this young man?" pointing to Norris—he said, "Yes"—"Do you know what firm he represents, or where he is employed?"—he said, "I know him as a traveller from Spitalfields"—"Did you expect him to bring a parcel to you?"—"No"—"Have you done any business with him, or bought any silk of him?"—he stopped for a moment or two, he appeared to be thinking, and then he said, "Two or three times"—that was all that passed then—I took Norris to the station house—he was searched there, but no other property was found upon him but that which he had in the parcel—that weighs 2 lbs. 4 ozs.—after he was locked up, I accompanied Mr. Barnard to Whale's place again—I asked Whale to show me his books of the transactions he had had with Norris—he said he kept no books, but he had got invoices—I asked him to show me the last invoice of the last transaction he had had with Norris, and he gave me one of 30th June—this is it—(Read: "June 30, 1857. Mr. Whale, bought of W. Norris, one coloured SS, 32, 2l. Paid, W. Norris")—I then said, "Oh, you have done no business with him in July?)"—he said, "No, I have not seen him—he called on Monday, and left his name, but I did not see him"—I then asked him to let me see the whole of the invoices that he had got, and he pulled out about thirty or thirty-one invoices—these are them—one of these was found in his pocket book, the rest were on the file—Funnell found this one of 27th July at the warehouse—it was produced, and I called Whale's attention to it—he said, "Oh, yes, I quite forgot that"—the 27th July would be the Monday Whale had stated that Norris called, and he did not see him—Funnell had asked him if those were all the invoices, and he said, "If you are not satisfied, you had better look and see for yourself;" he did so, and found this—we found 35 lbs. of silk on the premises, that was claimed by Mr. Barnard—this produced is it—a parcel of 2 lbs. was found by Funnell, and kept separate; Funnell will speak as to that—I found on the file these other invoices—40s. per pound is the price charged there—it was in consequence of finding those invoices on the file that Mr. Barnard gave Whale into custody—after this property was found, I heard Whale beg Mr. Barnard not to lock him up, he might take anything he liked.

Cross-examined. Q. You found a good many other invoices besides these? A. There were a great many others—these were picked out from the others in my presence, by Mr. Barnard—(these were for very small amounts)—I should think there were twenty or thirty invoices besides these—I did not find much larger quantities of silk on the premises than I have produced; the were other silks—Norris was taken into custody at Whale's warehouse—I left Whale there—it was somewhere about an hour before I went back with Mr. Barnard—at the time he said he had not seen Norris on 27th July I had not that invoice in my possession, only that of 30th June; he was looking over the file at the time—he told Funnell if he was not satisfied, to look himself, and I believe he did so—Mr. Whale

assisted Mr. Barnard in picking out the silk that had been sold by Norris—on our way to the station house, Norris said, "Well, I may as well tell the truth about this silk; I bought it of a person who did not come honestly by it, but that was not my look out; I bought it cheap"—I searched Norris's place; I found some property that was claimed by Mr. Barnard, some bottoms of silk—that is all I found (produced).

EDWARD FUNNELL . I am a detective officer. I went with Scott upon this occasion, and followed Norris—when we went the second time to Whale's, I heard what was said about the file of invoices—after he had produced all the other invoices except the one we subsequently found, I searched the file; I found one of 27th July on the file—I saw Mr. Barnard find the brown silk—when Mr. Barnard took hold of one of the pieces of silk he said, "This is mine"—Whale said, "Yes, that is one I had of Norris"—he said that of several which now lay here—when Mr. Barnard found this one, he said, "Why, here is another of mine"—"Oh, yes," he said, "that was the last transaction; that was Monday."

Cross-examined. Q. That relates to 27th July, does it not? A. It does, to the invoice I found.

BENEDICT BARNARD . I carry on business in partnership with Mr. Rosenthal, at No. 134, Cheapside—our business is very extensive—the number of persons we employ varies according to the season of the year, sometimes from 400 to 500 persons—we are silk manufacturers—Norris has been in our employment twice—he has been with us about thirteen months I think the last time—he was a giver out of silk—he was stationed in the upper floor of our warehouse, our silk room—for some reasons I had I made a communication to the police, and obtained the assistance of the two detectives who have been here to-day—on 29th July they showed me some silk which they had found on Norris—it would be worth about 4l. 15s.—it is worth 40s. per pound; some of it is worth more; some of the silks are more expensive—the pink is worth 46s., in consequence of the extra value of the dye—except that, the whole of that parcel, to the best of my belief, is of the same quality—after that communication had been made to me, I went with the officers to Bishop's Court—Whale is a small trimming manufacturer in the same kind of business as our own, a maker of fringe—we make fringe, and this silk is the character of silk used for fringe purposes—I saw Whale on that occasion—I said to him, "You have been buying silk of a person of the name of Norris?"—he said, "I have"—I then said, "Have you had many transactions with him?"—he replied, "Two or three"—I then said, "At this moment I believe you to be a respectable man, and I shall treat you accordingly; presuming you to be such, show me your cash book"—his reply was, "I do not keep a cash book"—I expressed considerable surprise at his not doing so, and told him that that was the first element requisite in a house of business, and I considered it highly irregular; his answer to which was, "Being in a small way of business, I did not think it so very necessary," or words, to that effect—I then said, "In the absence of your cash book, the next thing I shall require to see will be your invoice files; show me your invoices?" which he did—I looked over those files, and in the course of my examination I found a number of invoices, some with dates, others without; I then said to him, "You appear to have had not only two or three transactions with this man, but many, and doubtless are doing a largish sort of trade, and you sell cheap;" his reply to which was, "Yes, I do as well as I can, and I am obliged to buy cheap to sell cheap"—I then

expressed some surprise that no address of the seller was given on these invoices, and asked him if he knew where he lived—he said, "No, I do not"—while looking over those invoices, I discovered several other invoices of other houses, which sets forth the value of the silk as very much more than the price on the other invoices—Whale was asked when he had seen Norris last, and when he had had the last transaction with him, and he answered, "I have not had any transactions with him in July"—I cannot say that I recollect anything being said about the last invoice or the last transaction, in my hearing—he was asked when he had last seen Norris, and he said he had not seen him, but he believed he had called on Saturday—I think this was Wednesday—I think Monday was the day he named—I then claimed the whole of this silk as mine—there was a very small quantity that I did not claim—he had a number of remnants and oddments, but he had very little else besides this in that form; he had some of that kind of silk, not so much as you have on the table there—there is 37 lbs. or 39 lbs. there I think altogether—I do not know the weight of what he had besides this, and I did not weigh it—(George Scott. I weighed it; there was 10 lbs. left)—After I had found the invoices, I went round the shop, or room, or warehouse, whatever it is called, and I immediately saw this silk; it was covered with a wrapper—I said, "This silk is mine"—he said, "Yes, this is the silk I bought of Norris; you may take it away, only don't give me into custody"—I afterwards found the parcel that lies before me—I said, "Why, here is another parcel of the silk"—he said, "Oh, yes, this is what I bought last Monday, and I had forgotten it"—I have gone through the invoices that were found—they amount in quantity to 63 lbs. 13 ozs.; that includes the whole number of invoices found by myself—the value of it is about 40s. per pound at least; some of it is worth 46s.—I do not know the weight of that—there is none of less value than 40s.—I am now speaking of the ordinary market value.

Cross-examined. Q. You are in a very large way of business, I believe? A. Moderately so—I should say we were in a much larger way than Whale—we never sell silk; we buy silk, and manufacture it into goods, and sell them, not only fringe, but anything else—we buy our silk in the raw state occasionally; sometimes we buy it thrown—raw silk is silk which has undergone no process, and has simply been wound from the coomb—silk in the gum is silk which has undergone the process of throwing; that is, two or three ends of fine silk are thrown together, and form a thread, from which we weave—we buy our silk raw, in the gum, and dyed—we do not dye ourselves—there is no process of gumming; it is throwing—we are not throwsters—we only buy occasionally in the raw state—the great bulk is bought in the gum—occasionally, when out of a special colour, we buy it ready dyed; that is rather an exception—I should not think there was silk to the amount of 300l. on Whale's premises—I did not know before this that there was such a man in being—there was not the slightest concealment of the silk—the invoices were given up to me after some hesitation—I should say there was only a fair amount of hesitation.

COURT. Q. Any man might hesitate before he showed his invoices? A. Quite so—I occasionally buy silk myself—the value of this is 40s. in the state in which it now is—if I wanted to buy it, I should have to pay 40s. a lb. for it in any quantity—if I wanted 1 cwt. of it, I should pay the same price as for 1 lb.—the price in the gum depends on the year, and the quantity of silk in the market—silk will vary forty per cent sometimes—it is dearer now than ever it was—it has varied forty per cent, during the last

year and a half, but not in a day or a week—there is always a recognised market value—it has been constantly going up—silk that would sell at 40s. in a perfect state, would be about 25s. or 25s. 6d. in the gum.

HENRY HAGGARD . I was in the service of Barnard and Rosenthal some time ago, when Norris was there—I saw Whale there two or three times during that time, in the same room where Norris was at work—it must be about three years ago.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you ever bought a lot of fringe of Whale? A. Never—I never bought anything of him that I recollect—I am now assistant to a bookseller.

JOHN WEBSTER . I am in the employment of Messrs. Hutton, fringe makers, of Newgate Street. Norris was in their service from Nov., 1855, to June, 1856—during that time Whale was in the habit of coming there—he worked for Messrs. Hutton, manufacturing for the trimming department, in which Norris was employed—he was generally there every day.

Cross-examined Q. What is the latest time you have seen Whale there? A. Yesterday morning.

JAMES PHILLIPS . I keep a public house in the Old Bailey. Whale has used my house for about twelve months—I have seen Norris there, both with Whale and without him—I should say I have seen him there with Whale twenty or thirty times within the last three months—sometimes he would come two or three times a week—I have heard Norris address 'Whale as Jack.

Cross-examined. Q. Was Norris sometimes in the habit of coming to dine there? A. He has dined there on two or three occasions—Whale mostly dined there—I believe he lived at Hornsey—I have known him about twelve months—I always believed him to be a very upright man—I treated him more as a confidential friend than a customer—I believe I have heard other people call him Jack.

ALFRED ROSENTHAL . I am in partnership with Mr. Barnard—Norris was employed in the upper floor of our warehouse—I saw Whale up there, I think, about three or four months ago—he came to offer fringes for sale—I told him we did not require any—Norris was working at the counter at the time—I have recollected since that Whale was also there about 1854.

Cross-examined. Q. I suppose seeing Whale there made no great impression on your mind? A. Not at all—we are not in the habit of having persons coming to offer goods in the upper floor; the lower part is the proper place—we have about twenty-six or twenty-seven persons in our establishment.

Witnesses for the Defence,

WILLIAM COOK . I am a silk dealer, in Banner Street, St. Luke's. I have been in the silk trade twenty-four years—it is very common for what are called "job lots" to be bought and sold in the silk trade; when small dealers are short of money, they go round to the trade and sell these lots—I have had several dealings in job lots—I should not like to give more than 26s. a pound for the silk produced, as a job lot, to pay ready money; I should consider that a fair market price—they are the description of goods that are sold at 40s.; manufacturers who want a small quantity would have to pay that price, at a large house—I have known Whale some years; I never heard the least imputation on his character for honesty or fair dealing.

Cross-examined by MR. BODKIN. Q. Is he in your debt now? A. He is, about 120l. or 130l.; I would trust him again directly.

WILLIAM ADAMS . I am a silk dealer, in Slater Street, Bethnal Green.

I have been nineteen years in the trade—job lots are recognized in the trade to a great amount—they would be sold at a considerably less price than cost—there is no standard price for a job lot—the value of the silk produced, take it all round, would be 31s. or 32s. a pound; that is without reference to its being sold under disadvantageous circumstances—I think I could do a ton weight of it at that price—it would not be worth more in the market—I have known Whale about fourteen years; he has borne a very honest character—I have trusted him to a great amount, and he has always paid me.

COURT. Q. Job lots are sold at a variety of prices, are they not? A. Yes; when a man gets nearly broken up, he is obliged to sell for half price.

SIMEON SQUIRES . I have been in the silk trade eight years. This silk, if sold in small quantities of one or two ounces, would sell at 38s. a pound, and the pink at about 42s., but when we sell a lot at a time, of course we do it at something less—to buy it wholesale, we generally give about 26s. a pound for it, in the state in which it is now, of this quality, and in lots of two pounds—I have known Whale about five years; he has always borne the character of an upright, honest man.

THOMAS YEOMAN . I am in the employ of Messrs. Hutton and Co., of Newgate Street, silk manufacturers. I have known Whale three years; I believe he has borne the character of an honest, respectable tradesman; I know nothing to the contrary—job lots are as common as crinoline is at the present time.

Cross-examined. Q. Just look at that pink silk; I ask you, as a person in respectable employment, what is the value of that silk, on your oath? A. 30s.; in the gum it would be 23s. or 21s.—if I was to buy it, I would not give more, in the regular way of trade—I say decidedly, that it is to be bought for 30s. in the regular way of trade—I am no acquaintance of Whale's, further than his doing business with me at Messrs. Hutton's—I have been there since Christmas—I know nothing of Norris.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. How long have you been in the silk trade altogether? A. I may say I was born in it; I have been in it ever since I was fourteen—I have had ample means of becoming acquainted with the value of silk—Messrs. Hutton are extensively engaged in the silk trade.

WILLIAM PRESTON . I am in the employment of Messrs. Hutton. The market value of the silk produced is from 32s. to 36s. a pound—I have known Whale about twelve years; he has borne the character of an honest, respectable tradesman.

CHARLES WELBORN SLEE . I have known Whale six or seven years—I never had the slightest notion of his being anything but an honest, respectable tradesman—I have been in the habit of seeing him daily for the last twelve months.

Cross-examined. Q. I believe you are a member of the firm of Hutton and Co.? A. I am—I should think the value of this silk is from 34s. to 37s., or thereabouts—the pink silk is more expensive, certainly; but the bulk of the silk, as I see it here, might, in large quantities, produce from 34s. to 36s.—I am speaking of it at its real value, what it would cost to manufacture—I do not think the prisoner is in debt to our firm; there may be possibly some trifling account, but it must be very small, 5l. either way.

(Several other witnesses deposed to Whale's good character.) WHALE— GUILTY .— Three Years Penal Servitude.

NORRIS—GUILTY.— Fourteen Years Penal Servitude.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-880
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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880. MATTHEW WHITING, (55) was indicted for embezzlement.

HENRY WILLIAM HUTCHINGS. I am a printer, at No. 63, Snow Hill. The prisoner was in my employment as traveller—he was paid by a salary and a commission—I never told him to receive money on my account—his duty was to obtain orders for printing—he never paid me any money received from Mr. Goodson.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. How long has he been with you? A. Between two and three months—he was not told to collect money, I do that—he has received money before, and paid it to me—I had not desired him to receive it then, but he took the work home, and they paid him, and he brought it back.

ROBERT GOODSON . I am a linendraper, in Shoreditch; I was a debtor to Mr. Hutchings. On 30th June, the prisoner called on me, and said he came for a small account of Mr. Hutchings's—I gave him 6l. on account, and he signed this receipt (produced).

(MR. SLEIGH. submitted that this was no embezzlement, the prisoner not having been authorised to receive the money on account of his master. MR. BARON MARTIN. was of opinion that the prisoner had received the money by virtue of his employment.)

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months. (There was another indictment against the prisoner for obtaining the same money by false pretences.)

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-881
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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881. MARK NICHOLAS POWLES, (20) Feloniously forging and uttering a request for the delivery of goods.

SAMUEL NORTH . I am a warehouseman in the employment of Messrs. Leaf, of No. 39, Old Change. On 4th Aug., the prisoner came to the entering room, and said he had ordered two pieces of silk—I sent for the silk, and asked him for the order; he gave me this paper—(Read: "Please to let the bearer have a piece of crimson Persian at 18s. J. Woolmer.")—Mr. Woolmer is a customer of Messrs. Leaf—I asked the prisoner whose writing it was—he said, "Mr. Woolmer"—I said, "Which one!"—he said, "The young one"—I said, "I think not"—he said, "Oh, yes! if you do not believe it, you had better send on and see"—I said I should send one of my young men with him, which I did.

JOSEPH COFFETT . I am in the employment of Messrs. Leaf. Mr. North sent me with the prisoner to Mr. Woolmer's; just before we got out of the Change, he said he wanted, to go to Brooks—I said I was to go with him to Woolmer's, to see whether he did come from there—in going along I asked how long he had been at Mr. Woolmer's—he said about twelve months—just as we came to Jewin Street, he ran away—I gave a hue and cry, and he was stopped.

JOHN WOOLMER . I am a haberdasher, in Aldersgate Street; I deal occasionally with Messrs. Leaf. The prisoner was formerly in my employment, but left at the latter end of May—this order Was not written by me or by my authority—I do not know whose it is; I believe it to be the prisoner's from what I have seen of his writing while with me—I have a son, it is not his writing, or that, of any person in my employ—no order was given for such articles.

JOHN MILLS . (City policeman, 146.) I apprehended the prisoner—I searched him, but found nothing bearing on the case.

Prisoners Defence. As I was coming through the Post Office, a person named Clark came up and tapped me on the shoulder, and asked me how I did; I had known him at a draper's at Woolwich, and we used to have a

pipe and a glass of ale together after business; he asked how long I had left Woolmer's, I said "Three months;" he said he had taken my situation there; he said he had to go to several places, and asked me to take this to Leaf's; get the goods, and meet him at Brooks's.

GUILTY. of uttering. — Confined Three Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-882
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Not Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude

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882. JOHN REARDON (21), JAMES MACKNESS (22), and THOMAS PLANK, (34) Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of Richard Jolly, and others, and stealing a quantity of metal, his property. 2nd COUNT., for receiving the same.

MR. W. J. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.

RICHARD JOLLY . I am a sailmaker, and live at No. 276, Wapping. I am in partnership with my son, Richard—on Friday night, 7th Aug., I shut up my warehouse myself, at half past 7 o'clock, and turned the gas off at half past 10 o'clock—I went round to all the doors, they were quite safe—the counting house is connected with my dwelling house by a covered way—in that warehouse I had three boxes—the covers were open—they were what we put old metal in—they contained yellow metal, and copper, and some composition called pump chambers, a brass tube that is put down in the pump to keep the pump from chafing—my son's coat was hanging up in the warehouse—I went to the warehouse the next morning about 7 o'clock—I found a part of the warehouse door broken right through, and bars and bolts twisted off—the three boxes of metal were then gone, and all the things I have spoken of—I noticed that a rope that I left inside when I went to bed was fastened on the wharf, and hanging over it towards the river, they had lowered the boxes down with it—a person, if the tide served, could bring a boat up to our wharf—that rope was in a position so that anything might be lowered from the wharf—I think it must have been high water somewhere about 3 o'clock on the morning of the 8th—some metal was shown to me afterwards by inspector Bridges (produced)—I can speak to it—there is my own name on it—this is some of it.

RICHARD JENNINGS . I am in the service of Mr. Jolly—I saw the premises on the Saturday morning, a little after 6 o'clock—I found a jemmy in the warehouse—I gave it to the inspector—this (produced) is it, and that is a portion of the woodwork that was broken away from the back door—the mark on the woodwork corresponds with the jemmy.

THOMAS RICE . I live at No. 29, Park Street, Poplar, and am a waterman. On the morning of Saturday, 8th Aug., I saw the prisoners, Reardon and Mackness, between 5 and 6 o'clock—Reardon placed his boat on the shore alongside of mine, that was at Limehouse Stairs, which is a good distance from Mr. Jolly's warehouse—that boat laid on the shore about half an hour, until I took some passengers across the water; when I came back, I rowed my boat to the same place, and took some more over—that boat was still there—about half an hour afterwards, Mackness came down—I did not see any one with him at that time—he went down to the boat and carried up a case of yellow metal—he had a cart with him—there was another man with him—I could not swear to Plank, but I believe he is the man that brought the cart—he was a very stout man, like him—Mackness carried a case of copper out of the boat up the alley into the cart—Reardon carried one up too; he fell down on the stairhead with it—the other man took it off his back, and put it on his own back, and took it down to the cart—they each carried a box—the boxes were taken one after the other—as each box was put into the cart, the tail board was put up very quickly—they put the tail

board up directly they put one in—then the cart went away—the carman went away with it—I saw the cart on the Thursday—it was Plank's cart—I had seen that cart before once, when it came down to the stairs—it was the same cart that I saw come down to the boat and take the three boxes away.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. (for Plank). Q. You have never said that before have you? A. Yes—I never saw the cart until I went along with Mr. Bridges—I told Mr. Bridges that the other man that came with the cart was a big man, but I could not swear to Mr. Plank—I saw Brown there, he had to mind the boat—he was there at the same time—he saw this person also—a lid of a box was shown to me—that (produced) is the lid—it appears to be like the lid of the box I saw—that is the elm lid—I gave a description of what I had seen.

JAMES BROWN . I am a labourer, living at Poplar. On the morning of Saturday, 8th Aug., I was at Limehouse Stairs between 5 and 6 o'clock—I was with Rice, the last witness—I saw the prisoners Reardon and Mackness there—I saw them shove a boat on the shore, and fetch three cases out of the boat—one of those cases, was broken, the lid was off, and it contained yellow metal—they were taken down an alley, but I did not see where they went to—it is a passage that leads from Limehouse into the street—Reardon carried one, and Mackness carried another—Mackness carried two, a large one, and a small one—I saw another man, but the distance was so great I could not identify him—it was between fifty and sixty yards—Mackness asked me to give an eye to the boat, and he would give me a shilling when he came back—I saw the cart in the distance, but I did not know whose it was, or who the man was with it.

PETER BIDGOOD . (Policeman, K 168). On Saturday, 8th Aug., about half past 6 o'clock in the morning, I saw Reardon and Mackness together in Brook Street, Ratcliff—they were, coming from the direction of Plank's house, and were about 200 yards from it—I stopped them—Reardon had a bundle with him, tied in a handkerchief—it contained this coat (produced)—I asked him whose it was; he said it was his own—I asked him where he got it—he said he picked it up down the street—I asked him what street, and he said, "Down below"—he repeated that several times, and on the road to the station he said that he had picked it up in a doorway in the Commercial Road—I took him into custody—Mackness went away while I was speaking to Reardon.

JOHN THOMPSON . (Policeman, K 21). I followed Mackness after Bidgood had taken Reardon—I came up to him, and said, "What have you got in that bundle?"—he said, "I don't know anything about the other man; he just called me, and I went and spoke to him; I have been at work on the river, taking a barge down to the Victoria Dock"—I took him lock to Reardon and the other constable, and he immediately called out to Reardon, "You don't know me, do you?"—Reardon said, "No, I do not; you are a stranger to me."

GEORGE BLAKE MANGER . I am a china and glass dealer, in High Street, Stratford. I know Plank, and have had dealings with him—on Saturday morning, 8th Aug., a little before 10 o'clock, I met him in Bow Road—he had a horse and cart, and some metal in it, partly in bags and partly loose—it was copper, and was what is called Munce's metal; that is, yellow metal—I went with him to Mr. Glasscote's to sell it, and got 8l. for it—this is the bill and receipt (produced)—I gave him the receipt, and paid the prisoner—the copper weighed lqr. 14lbs., and the brass, 1 cwt 3 qrs. 11 lbs.—I have bought metal of him before in the way of business—I used generally to purchase

it at his shop—he is a marine store dealer—when I met him in the Bow Road he said he was coming down to my house.

Cross-examined. Q. You have often dealt with him? A. Six or seven times, or probably more—there was no secrecy in the transaction—it was sold for a fair price—the yellow metal fetched rather more than the fair price—I have never heard anything against his character—the two chambers were loose in the cart, some was in bags—it is very common to put it into bags—I did not observe any name on either of the chambers when I bought it.

JOHN DIXON . I am in the service of Mr. Glasscote, of Great Garden Street. Plank brought this metal with Mr. Manger—I afterwards showed the pump chambers to Mr. Jolly, the younger—they were amongst the metal.

THOMAS BRIDGES . (Thames police inspector,) On Saturday morning, 8th Aug., between 7 and 8 o'clock, I went to Mr. Glasscote's premises—I there found this jemmy and this piece of wood—the marks fit—some violence had been used in effecting the entrance—in consequence of information, I afterwards went to Mr. Glasscote's—I produce the pump chamber which I got there—Mr. Glasscote's name was marked in chalk on it—on that same evening at 11 o'clock, I went to Plank's stable in George Street, Commercial Road—I found him there—I told him that I was an inspector of police, and that I called on him relative to a metal transaction that he had had with Mr. Manger on Saturday last—he said, "I know nothing of any metal"—I said, "You know Mr. Manger, of Stratford?"—he said, "Yes, I know Mr. Manger, but I know nothing of any metal"—I took him into custody, and on our way to the station he said, "It will be best for me to tell the truth: two men came to me, and told me that they had bought some metal out of a shop at Limehouse"—he said nothing else—I took him to the station, and then went and searched his house in Whitecross Street—in the kitchen, by the fire, I found part of an elm chest, which had been chopped up, and partly burnt—in the stable I found this lid of a box—I also found a purse, and ten sovereigns in it.

RICHARD JENNINGS . re-examined. This is the lid of one of the boxes which contained the metal in my master's warehouse, and one of these pieces of wood I can identify by some nail holes of my own making, at various times—we have sent this box with things in it, and these marks are where I have nailed it, and broke the wood away—I can also swear to the coat.

RICHARD JOLLY . re-examined. I know this coat perfectly well; it is my son's warehouse coat—it was safe in the warehouse on Friday evening.

(Plank received a good character.)



Reardon and Mackness were further charged with having been before convicted: to which

REARDON PLEADED GUILTY.— Ten Years Penal Servitude.

WILLIAM CHARLES POTTER . (Policeman). I produce a certificate—(This certified the Conviction of James Nubley, at Clerkenwell, in Nov., 1851, of larceny, and that he was sentenced to six months imprisonment)—Mackness is the person who was convicted in that name.

MACKNESS—GUILTY.— Ten Years Penal Servitude.

NEW COURT.—Friday, August 21st, 1857.


Before Mr. Justice Crowder and the Fifth Jury.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-883
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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883. MIGUEL PERANEZ (20), Feloniously stabbing and wounding Charles Bishop, with intent to do him some grievous bodily harm.

MR. LILLEY. conducted the Prosecution.

(The prisoner, being a foreigner, had the evidence interpreted to him.)

CHARLES BISHOP . I am a seaman, of the American ship Eagle. On 19th June, at a little before 12 o'clock, I was walking in Neptune Street, St. George's, with two of my shipmates—I saw a crowd at the corner of St. George's Street and Neptune Street—they were quarrelling—they appeared to be foreigners—some of them were light, and some dark—I observed the prisoner in the crowd—I did not see any other one so dark as he was—I looked and listened for about two minutes—I then turned to go away with my shipmates—I said there was likely to be a row—I walked two or three steps, and the prisoner rushed upon me, and stabbed me in the groin—I ran a few yards, and fell—the prisoner followed me up, and jumped upon me—I did not see anything in his hand when he came out of the crowd—I felt the blow—I became insensible, and when I recovered I found myself in the London Hospital.

Prisoner. I never saw this man but here and at the police court.

COURT. Q. This was at 12 o'clock at night? A. Yes—there were gas lights—I had not been drinking—the prisoner rushed on me all on a sudden—I am positive he is the man—there were dark men there, but not so dark as him—I fell down, and he jumped on me—that was three or four yards from the gas light—I was going away, and some person cried out, "He is coming after you"—I turned, and saw him distinctly—when he first stabbed me I could see him plainly—I am sure he is the person—no other person came to me—I was on the footpath—the crowd was in the road—I do not know what made the prisoner come to me—I was not mixing at all in the disturb—ance—I did not see him stab anybody else—I did not see the knife in his hand.

JURY. Q. Did you speak to the prisoner at all? A. No, nor he to me—he did not say anything in any language—I am an American—I was with two shipmates, who were North Americans—the persons in the crowd were South Americans—there had been no dispute between my companions and any of them, neither then nor on any former occasion.

WALTER WIGGINS . I am barman at the Cock and Neptune, in Neptune Street. At a little after 12 o'clock at night, on 19th June, I saw the prisoner standing against the crowd in Neptune Street—I saw him take the knife from out of his belt, and wipe it between his fingers, and he rushed against the prosecutor, and pushed it into his groin—the prosecutor staggered two or three yards, and fell—the prisoner then rushed upon him, and jumped upon him—I saw all this—I was at a window on the first floor, about twelve yards off—the window was open—the gas light was at the corner—I am quite sure the prisoner is the man; I had served him two or three times in our house—the other men were dark, but not so dark as him; he was the blackest—he was not drunk—there were six persons in the crowd altogether

I saw Williams—when the prisoner jumped on the prosecutor, Williams pulled him off him—I knew the prisoner directly, because I had served him.

Prisoner. I was not in the row at all.

ROBERT PAYNE . (Policeman, H 198). I first saw the prisoner that night about half past 10 o'clock—I saw him again about half an hour afterwards in a row just opposite the Cock and Neptune—it first commenced inside, and then they came out—amongst those who were in the row there was none so black as the prisoner, nothing like so dark—after that, about 12 o'clock, I heard screams of "Murder!" and I saw the prisoner running towards the door of a lodging house kept by Williams—I followed him in, and followed him up stairs, but I was stopped first of all by Williams at the door—I went up stairs, and took the prisoner—I had to force open the door of the room, which was locked—I took him about a quarter past 12 o'clock—I said to him, "I want you"—he said in English, "I know nothing about the row"—I told him he must come with me; he was charged with stabbing two men, and one was gone to the hospital—he said, "The man cannot say that he saw me with a knife"—I am sure he said that—he said it so that I could understand him, and make no mistake—I saw this knife on the floor, just against the door of the room—I said to the prisoner, "What knife is this? is this yours?"—he said, "No, it is not mine"—I noticed his hands; on his right hand there was some blood—I did not. see any wound on his hand to account for that blood—I took him to the station, and I there saw a spot of blood on the sleeve of his shirt, just on the hand—I have no doubt whatever that the man that I saw running away and followed was the man whom I apprehended—I had seen him before nearly every night during the week—I never saw the prosecutor till I went to the hospital.

JOHN REDDING . (Policeman, H 214). I was in Neptune Street—I heard a rattle spring—I went, and saw the crowd—I saw a female in the act of picking up this knife—I took it—it was covered with warm liquid blood—I went into Williams's after the last witness—I did not see any man so dark as the prisoner—this knife was picked up just where the prosecutor fell.

WALTER WIGGINS . re-examined. Q. In the course of the evening, when the prisoner was at the public house, had you seen him with any knife in his possession? A. I saw another man with a knife, not the prisoner—that was about half past 10 o'clock—I took the knife, and kept it in the bar, and the prisoner and his mate came in again, just before 12 o'clock, and then I gave the knife to the prisoner—this is the knife, the one that was picked up in the street covered with blood—it was a bran new knife when they left it with me—I examined it very particularly in the bar.

COURT. Q. Look at this other knife which was found in the house; are you sure it was not that? A. No, it was not that—that is not a new knife; this one is.

JOHN COMLEY . I am a surgeon, and live at No. 71, Whitechapel. About a fortnight after 19th June I had occasion to go to the London Hospital—I saw the prosecutor, who was a patient there—he was suffering from a wound in the scrotum and the groin, passing to the inner portion of the thigh—it was near the femoral artery—it was a very dangerous wound—an abscess had been formed, which extended four inches down the thigh—this knife would most decidedly have inflicted such a wound.

Prisoner's Defence. I never saw the prosecutor but at the police court and here; I have no knowledge of him at all; I was up in my room at the time; there were some other blacks there as well as me; they belonged to

a Chilian man of war; this shirt I have on is the only shirt I have; here is no blood on it (Taking off his jacket, and showing his shirt.)

ROBERT PAYNE . re-examined. That is not the shirt he had on.

GUILTY. of Unlawfully Wounding.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-884
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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884. MIGUEL PERANEZ was again indicted for feloniously stabbing and wounding John Webster, with intent to do him grievous bodily harm.

MR. LILLEY. conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN WEBSTER . I am a seaman. I had come home in an American ship—on the night of 19th June I was walking with a young woman, near to Neptune Street, about 10 minutes past 12 o'clock—I saw Bishop staggering and falling—I walked on a few yards, and I felt a blow from behind me—I had not said anything to the prisoner—I had said to Bishop, "Good night"—it was the prisoner who struck me—I turned round, and tried to catch him—I saw a knife in his hand, and I received a second blow with the knife under the left arm—I tried to hold the prisoner, but I could not—he ran away, and round the corner, into Williams's house—I saw the policeman enter the house after him, and saw him taken—I have no doubt the prisoner is the man who stabbed me—Dr. Comley came to the station, and I went to the hospital the next morning—I was there a fortnight and four days—the knife I saw was similar to this one—it was a sharp knife.

Prisoner. This is the first time I have seen this man.

ROBERT PAYNE . (Policeman, H 198). On the night in question I heard a cry of "Murder!" and saw the prisoner running; he went into Williams's house—I went in, went up stairs, and found the door of the room locked—I broke it open, and saw the prisoner sitting on the bed—I took him into custody—I immediately afterwards found this knife by the door of the room—there was no blood on it—it appeared to have been fresh sharpened.

JOHN COMLEY . I attended the prosecutor—I found he had a wound, an inch and a half long, on his left side, and one on the shoulder, where the knife had gone through a very thick coat—no doubt this knife might have made such wounds—the wound on the shoulder was superficial—the wound in the ribs was a deep one.

Prisoner's Defence. I had nothing at all to do with him; I had no reason to stab him in that manner.

GUILTY .— Four Tears Penal Servitude.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-885
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment

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885. FRANCIS PAYNTER (26) and SARAH PAYNTER (21), Robbery on William Saull, and stealing 3l. 17s., his moneys.

MR. TALFOUBD SALTER . conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM SAULL . On the night of 8th Aug., about 10 o'clock, I was at the Star and Garter public house, near Ealing—there were several persons there, but they were not with me—I had no purse, but I took out my money to pay for what I had—I had just to look to see that I did not give a half sovereign for a sixpence—I took my money in my hand, and the persons who were there had an opportunity of seeing it—after leaving I went towards Acton, and when I got near the railway station, Sarah Paynter spoke to me—she said, "Are you going home?"—I said, "Yes, are you?"—I saw her face—we walked on a little further together, and shortly afterwards I was struck at the back—the blow knocked me forward to the ground, and stunned me—after I recovered I found my pockets turned inside out, and I missed 3l. 10s. in gold, and 6s. or 7s. in silver—in consequence of that I gave a description of Sarah Paynter to the first policeman

I could find—I did not see any man at the time I was struck—I saw Sarah Paynter again about half an hour afterwards.

Sarah Paynter. Q. Was I not going home, and did you not lay hold of both my hands and behave rude to me, and did I not say I would not have anything to say to you? A. No—I did not pull myself away from you, and fall on my face—I was not the worse for drink, I had been drinking a little—I did not pull you down.

COURT. Q. What did you have to drink? A. Several glasses of ale—I had a little drop of brandy—I had had several calls to make in the course of the afternoon, and at each I took a glass of ale—I was not in liquor.

Sarah Paynter. Q. Did you not tell me that you were? A. No—I did not notice what bonnet you had on—we were opposite a lamp—I did not catch hold of you—when I got up, and came to my senses, I saw the appearance of some person; I could not say it was you.

Francis Paynter. Q. Did you see me? A. Not till you were at the police court—I did not say your wife was not the woman—while she was putting on her dress, I said, "I think that was not the woman"—when she had put on her dress I did not say that was the woman by her dress—I took the candle, and looked in her face.

HANNAH CLIFFORD . On the night of 8th Aug. I was at Kew Bridge, about 10 o'clock, near the Star and Garter—I saw the two prisoners—I had known them previously, and had seen them together—I saw them both again together about half an hour afterwards, they were then running in a direction from Gunnersbury Lane, and Sarah Paynter said to me, "If any one asks you if you saw a young man and a young woman go by, say no"—shortly after the prosecutor came by in the same direction that the prisoners had come, and no one had passed from the time the prisoners went by till he came—he was sober, and as he passed the lamp he was wiping something like blood from his face—it looked red.

Francis Paynter. Q. Did you not say you saw my wife standing talking to the prosecutor? A. No.

EDWARD FIELDER . (Policeman, T 157). I received information of the robbery on Sunday, 9th Aug., between 1 and 2 o'clock—I went to the prisoner's lodging, and asked if he was at home—they denied it—I made further inquiries, and found him in a house two doors off—I went up stairs; I looked round the room; I could not see him; I found him in bed, covered with the bedclothes, with all his clothes on—I told him I should take him in charge for being concerned in a robbery with a woman—he said, "I know nothing about the robbery, neither was I where the robbery was committed"—I asked him where his short, white, round frock was—he said he had not worn it, and did not know where it was—I took him to the station—I had previously seen him in that short frock from time to time.

HANNAH CLIFFORD . re-examined. Q. The man was dressed when you saw him in dark trowsers and a white slop—I have always seen him in a white slop.

EDWARD HITCHCOCK . (Policeman, T 261). On the night of 8th Aug., at a quarter past 10 o'clock, I was opposite the Star and Garter—I saw the prosecutor come out of there, and go away towards London—shortly after I saw Sarah Paynter; she followed the prosecutor out—Francis Paynter was standing at the corner, and as she passed him, when she got a little way, she turned, and nodded to him—that was behind the prosecutor, as

he was going on—Francis then followed her, aid that was the last I saw of them—Francis had a short white slop on.

CHARLES BLAKE . (Police sergeant, T 34). On the night of 8th Aug., at half past 10 o'clock, I met the prosecutor; his face was bleeding—his nose and lip were cut—he appeared to have been knocked down—he made a statement to me, and described some one—in consequence of that, I went with him to a house, where I found Sarah Paynter—the prosecutor hesitated at first; he afterwards took a light, and then he said it was her—I asked her where Francis was—she said he Was out drinking.

Francis Paynter's Defence. I had been oat of work; I had received an injury on board a packet, and on the Saturday I pulled the smock off after 11 o'clock, and sold it for 1s. to pay my lodging; I then took my wife's shawl, and pawned it for 2s., to buy a bit of food for Sunday; I then went out with some shipmates; having a little drink, I did not arrive home much before Sunday morning; I heard that my wife was taken; I said I would go and see what she was in for, but they persuaded me not, as I should be locked up all Sunday, so I meant not to go till Monday, but I was taken on Sunday; my landlady would have come to speak on my behalf, but she did not like to lose her employ; I cannot be accountable for my wife; I was never near the place; she says that the prosecutor laid hold of her, and behaved ill to her; he stated he had a blow on the nose, and because that charge was not black enough, he said some one hit him on the back; were I on my dying bed, I never saw the man in my life.

FRANCIS PAYNTER— GUILTY .— Four Years Penal Servitude.

SARAH PAYNTER— GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-886
VerdictsNot Guilty > unknown; Not Guilty > no evidence

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886. DAVIS GOULD , Feloniously forging a warrant, with intent to defraud.

MESSRS SLEIGH. and LEWIS. conducted the Prosecution.

ABRAHAM LINES . I am a tailor, and live in Shoreditch. The prisoner was in my employ—I gave him coats to make, some cut out, and some in the piece—we enter in a book on one side the quantity given out, and the coats when returned on the other side—when he returned the work he presented this book to the foreman, or to me, and it was signed—if the articles were returned to my foreman, he would place his initials by the side of the articles; that would authorise the payment of the amount specified—the payment was by me on the truth of the signature—on 16th June this pass book was passed between me and the prisoner—on that day I gave the prisoner eighteen coats—up to the 23rd of that month he had returned four—on that day this book was returned to me by Houghton, not by the prisoner—it professes to have returned eight coats—he was aware what he was to be paid for each coat—I went afterwards to his lodging—I knocked, the prisoner came, and I said to him, "How many coats have you got?"—he said, "One"—I fetched an officer, and went into the prisoner's room, and found six coats, and I gave him in charge—I had paid the money in the book produced by Houghton, 7l.—4l. 7s. 6d. was for Houghton, and 2l. 12s. 6d. for the prisoner.

DANIEL CLARK . (City policeman, 82). I took the prisoner into custody—I told him he was charged by Mr. Lines with obtaining 1l. by a false entry in the book—he said, "I know nothing about it; I can't write"—I said, "How about receiving the money, the 1l. in the book?"—he said, "I have received the money"—the prisoner and Houghton were afterwards together at the police station, and Houghton said, in the prisoner's presence, that he

had received a cheque from Mr. Lines, and he had paid Gould 2l. 12s. out of that cheque, and the prisoner said, "Yes, I have received it"—I had previously been to the prisoner's lodging, where I found two coats made up, and the materials for four coats.


( The prisoner was again indicted for obtaining money by false pretences; upon which no evidence was offered. )


17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-887
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown; Not Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment; Imprisonment; Miscellaneous > fine; Imprisonment; Imprisonment; Imprisonment

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MESSRS. BODKIN. and CLERK. conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM HOLTHAM . (Policeman, N 428). On 30th March, I was on duty at Church End, Kingsland Road—about 4 o'clock in the afternoon I was called by a gentleman to take a man into custody for assaulting a female—I went up to the place, I found a man there, and took him—I do not know who he was—he was standing—there were a great many people round—Waggett came up to me, and said, "You have no charge against the man, and I will see you d—before you shall take him"—he then grasped hold of my stock, and stuck his knuckles into my neck with one hand, and with the other he struck me a violent blow in the stomach, and he cried out, "Rescue him!"—I had at that time hold of the man who had been given me in charge—he struck me several times, and I was not able to keep hold of the man—I have no recollection of any one striking me at the time besides Waggett—there was no other officer there at the time—Waggett made me let the man go, and he escaped—I waited till assistance came, as I was quite exhausted—three constables came, Alexander, Griswood, and Haseman—we then went to Pear Tree Court, which is about 100 yards from where I first took the man—I went there because I saw the man that had been rescued go towards Pear Tree Court—I saw Waggett there, and took him into custody for rescuing the prisoner from me—he struck me several times violently on the sides, stomach, chest, and eyes, and threw me down—I succeeded in getting him out of the court into the street, and I saw Cohen in High Street, Shoreditch—Pear Tree Court opens into High Street—there were a great many people round at that time—Cohen was standing a very short distance from the court, and I heard him cry out, "Rescue him! I never saw a man knocked about in that way; rescue him! rescue him! they are like a lot of pigs upon him"—I saw Morgan, he assisted Waggett in rescuing the first prisoner—Morgan laid hold of the man's waist, and was dragging him away—I have no recollection of seeing any other of the prisoners at Church End before that man was got away—I saw Morgan afterwards in the court, but I did not see him do anything in the court—I saw Lepine in High Street, Shoreditch, after we got out of the court—he was assisting in rescuing Waggett, whom we then had in custody—he and others came up together and rushed upon us, and tried all they could to pull him, and get him away—after we got to the cab rank, Lepine took some water, and threw it over one of the constables—the cab rank is nearly 100 yards from Pear Tree Court; it is facing the Church—other constables came up and assisted me in taking Waggett to the station—Morgan, and Cohen, and Lepine, and Wright, and Ballard, and Dane were taken—I received a mark on my neck, a black eye—I was unfit for duty for nine days.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. When you came oat of Pear Tree Court, how far was Mr. Cohen from you? A. Not more than twenty yards—a great number of persons were passing to and fro, and seeing we were engaged, a vast number stopped and looked on—they had good cause for it—I was not using my staff; I was not able to draw it—the other constables were not using their staves—I have no recollection of seeing them using them at all—I did not see a blow struck on either of the prisoners—I did not see that Waggett had any staff used on him—I was there the whole of the time, there were no staves used on the man that escaped—when we came out of Pear Tree Court, there were a great number of persons round, and near to Mr. Cohen—I believe there were all sorts of persons—there might be, perhaps, 100 at that time, and they kept increasing—it was about three minutes after we came out of the court that I heard the cry of "Rescue!" from Mr. Cohen—we were at that time taking Waggett to the station—Mr. Cohen was close to us—the other constables and myself were going towards him—the station is a quarter of a mile from Pear Tree Court—the other prisoners were taken between Pear Tree Court and the station—they were led up in custody—Mr. Cohen was led up.

Q. Will you swear that Mr. Cohen was led up; did he not say, "I will go and inform against you, you are treating this man cruelly?" A. I did not hear him—he did not walk to the station, or near to the station, before he was taken—he was taken between Pear Tree Court and Hoxton Old Town—200 yards from Pear Tree Court—I will swear that—he was taken into custody by Alexander—I was about ten yards off—I did not hear Mr. Cohen, before he was taken, state to Alexander, "I will not see persons treated in that way, I will go and inform against you"—I will not swear he did not—it was not when we were within ten or twenty yards of the station that Mr. Cohen was taken—I did not hear Alexander say to Mr. Cohen, "You shan't say that for nothing, hold yourself in custody"—he said, "You must consider yourself in my custody"—that was about 200 yards from Pear Tree Court—the station is in Robert Street—Mr. Cohen was not in Robert Street before he was taken.

Cross-examined by MR. HORRY. Q. Had you any one in custody? A. I was assisting in taking Waggett—I did not see Wright taken—I saw him afterwards in custody as I was going on towards the station—I was much exhausted—I have no recollection at all till I was at the station.

MR. CLERK. Q. Through what streets did you go to get to the station in Robert Street? A. Along Old Street Road, that leads to Hoxton Old Town, and up East Street, into Robert Street—I first saw Cohen in custody in Old Street Road.

Bollard. I was not there at all Witness. I did not see her—I did not see Dane till I saw him in custody.

EDWARD IVES . I am an attendant at the cab stand, in Shoreditch. On the day in question I saw a man and his wife fighting in Kingsland Road, about a quarter before 4 o'clock—Holtham went and took the man into custody—he tried to get away, and did ultimately get away, and went to Pear Tree Court—I saw Waggett and Morgan—Waggett struck the officer in the chest before the man that he had hold of got away from him—that man went down Pear Tree Court, and Morgan and Waggett followed him—the policeman went also, and I followed; I saw Waggett taken into custody in Pear Tree Court, by Holtham, he laid hold of him first—not many people followed down the court, Holtham and another officer went to take Waggett out of the court—Holtham was knocked down, and I ran

and laid hold of Waggett—an officer and I took him out of the court—I saw Ballard lay hold of Waggett with both her hands, and she tried to pull him away—I saw Cohen, and Lepine in his shirt sleeves—he several times tried to get Waggett away—he was the most violent man amongst the whole of them—Cohen was in High Street, about two doors from Pear Tree Court—I saw him go to Alexander, and put his hand upon his number—he said, "I will take your number for using violence towards the prisoner; you are acting cruelly, you villain"—I said to Cohen, "If he has done any harm, take his number, and apply to the proper quarters"—but Cohen rushed on to Alexander, and laid hold of his collar, and said, "You scoundrel, you vagabond, you are murdering the man; rescue! rescue! take him away"—he had a roll of paper in his hand—he was flourishing it about, and leading them on—the street was blocked up—I went for further assistance—none of the prisoners used any language to me at that time, but previous to that, Dane said to me, "I will remember you; I will do for you"—I saw Wright outside the court, very busy about the mob; I cannot say what he did, he appeared to be taking part in it—Morgan made himself very busy—I saw him take hold of Waggett, and try to get him away—I saw Cohen taken into custody in Old Street Road, very near the turning going towards the station.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. On coming out of the court, you say Mr. Cohen was two doors from the court? A. Yes—there were a great many people about—there had been a wedding that day, and some had been drinking; that was the cause of all this—there was a great noise when we came out of Pear Tree Court—Holtham had hold of Waggett, and another constable—I held him myself some time—I saw Waggett struck at with a staff, I suppose half a dozen times—I do not say it was to him, it was over him—Waggett was on the ground at that time—there were a great many people on him—I saw the staff go down half a dozen times—I do not remember seeing more than one staff exercised—I saw two staves drawn, but I did not see any one struck with them—I do not know whether the blows struck Waggett; I believe they did sometimes, not all the times; perhaps four out of the six, and the fingers caught the rest—Ballard came up at this time, and she was struck twice by Alexander with the staff in the same way on the hands—I will not say there was not some cry of "Shame!" from the people round—I ran for assistance because I thought the police were put upon very much, and I thought the row would be more—I do not recollect that a staff or a hand was pointed to me—I will not swear there was not—I have mentioned this matter with the police since—they have not told me what my evidence was to be—I said nothing but the truth—I have never been in the hands of the police before—I was summoned once for knocking a poor woman on the head—the woman did not appear; I did not give her something, not a farthing; no one gave her anything that I am aware of—Mr. Cohen was taken in Old Street, near Hoxton Square—I heard him say once, "I will take your number down"—I do not remember his saying, "I will go to the station, and give evidence for these poor people;" I will not swear he did not, I did not hear him.

Cross-examined by MR. HORRY. Q. Was it in Pear Tree Court that Ballard was struck? A. Yes—I do not remember several people saying that it was a shame to strike her—I heard exclamations amongst the people previous to her being struck—Wright said, "I will remember you"—he said that right up to my face, right at the bottom of the court, against

the houses—there were a good many people down the court—I will swear Wright was down the court—there might be fifty people rushed down the court.

MR. CLERK. Q. When was it you first saw any constable with a staff in his hand? A. It was entering one of the houses to bring out the man who had run away—two constables had staves, I do not know who—I first saw the staff used in High Street, Shoreditch—there were a great many people round the constables at that time—I saw Cohen immediately before the officers had the staves striking—immediately before they struck with the staves, Cohen ran up—at that time Waggett was on the ground; I was alongside of him, trying to assist the constables—I took hold of Waggett's leg; he kicked me, but he did not hurt me—Holtham had not got Waggett at that time, Alexander had got him.

COURT. Q. Did you see the staff used before the people tried to rescue Waggett? A. No, I did not; not a staff was drawn.

Waggett. Q. Where were you when Holtham had hold of the man that was beating his wife? A. I laid hold of the man—we did not let the man go wilfully.

Morgan. Q. Where was I? A. You and another man were pulling Waggett away—you were in the court also.

Lepins Q. Where was I at the time you say I was trying to rescue the prisoner? A. In your shirt sleeves, in the court—I saw you again when you were out of the court—I did not see you in custody.

Ballard. Q. Where was I when I was struck with the staff? A. Very nearly opposite the Register Office.

JOHN ALEXANDER . (Policeman, G 230). I was sent for to Pear Tree Court on the afternoon of 30th March, about 4 o'clock; I went with Holtham, Griswood, and Haseman, into the court—I saw Waggett there—there was a mob outside the court, and a great many more in the court—I saw Holtham take Waggett into custody; he took hold of Waggett's collar, and Waggett resisted very much, and threw himself down—after we had got Waggett into custody, I saw the people in the court throw bricks, and tiles, and flower pots, at me and at the other officers—we succeeded in getting Waggett out of the court into High Street; I there saw Lepine, and Cohen, and Ballard—we had got Waggetts out of the court, and were taking him towards the station—I think we had got him twenty yards, it might be a little more, when I saw Cohen—I heard him say, "Come, take him away, the dogs are murdering the man; take him away from them, don't let them take him into custody"—Cohen got hold of my collar, and tried to pull me away—I tried to pull myself away from Cohen, and the mob collected, and rushed on, and I hardly know what was done—the mob was a great deal more violent after that—I used my staff several times in High Street, Shoreditch, near the Church—I found I must either let the prisoner go or use my staff—I struck Waggett with my staff—I do not know that I struck any one else—the people had hold of Waggett, and I struck them to make them let him go—I should think there were pretty well a thousand people round—I saw Lepine; he had hold of Waggett a long time—I had a great deal of trouble with him; he wanted Waggett to go away with him, and said he would take him home—Lepine threw a pail of water, and the pail and all, over me—he struck one constable in the face, and he had a black eye—much injury was done to me: I have not been able to attend to business since, I feel the blows now—I had hold of Waggett, and was in a stooping position—some

one struck me behind on the small of my back—I have been in the doctor's hands ever since—I took Cohen into custody, in Old Street Road—as soon as I got assistance I put Waggett into the custody of another constable, and went and took Cohen—I should think that was 150 yards from Pear Tree Court—Cohen said he would report me if I handled him—I said that he must consider himself in my custody, and if he would walk quietly I did not wish to handle him, that I took him for inciting the mob to rescue the prisoner, and for assaulting me—he had not made any charge against me before that.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. When you came out of the court, did not Mr. Cohen say, "You are treating that man cruelly, I will report you?" A. It was not in my hearing—I did not hear him say, in going along, "You are treating this man cruelly, I insist on having your number"—I did not hear him say that, only when I took him; then he said that he would take my number—I did not hear him say, in going to the station, "I shall take your number, I mean to go to the station, and I shall report you"—in coming out of Pear Tree Court, I did not strike Waggett—I struck Ballard two or three times, till she let go Waggett—she was dressed somewhat similar to what she is now—I did not hear Mr. Cohen say to me, after I had struck this woman, "Why, man, you have broken that woman's arm"—he never spoke to me in that way from first to last—I let go of Waggett several times, and got hold of him again—when I took Mr. Cohen, he walked quietly to the station.

Cross-examined by MR. HORRY. Q. Was Griswood with you? A. Yes—he saw all that took place—he was not away from me but a very little while—he was close at hand—he was assisting me.

Lepine. Q. You say I took hold of Waggett, and said, "Let him go, I will take him home?" A. Yes, I heard you say that, and you got a pail of water, and threw it—it was thrown from the watering place—I saw you go and get the pail, and throw it over the men—I saw you strike the men in the street, between the hat shop and the watering post—I saw you get the water—I could not take you, because I had hold of Waggett—I saw you taken in Old Street Road.

ISAAC GRISWOOD . (Police sergeant, N 17). About 4 o'clock in the afternoon of 30th March, some one came to the station for assistance, and in consequence I went to Pear Tree Court, Shoreditch—I helped Holtham to take a man into custody—the prisoner Morgan came up, and took hold of me by the collar, and said, "You vagabond, you shall not take him"—in consequence of that I turned, and took Morgan into custody, and handed him over to another constable, who is not here—when Waggett was taken out of the court, Wright came up; he had a stick in his hand, which he threw at me—it caught me across the face, and made my mouth bleed very much—I went to assist to get Waggett to the station, and Lepine came up—he took hold of Waggett as he was lying on the ground, and said we should not take him—I took him away from Waggett, and Lepine struck me a very violent blow on the nose with his fist, which caused me to have a black eye—he then rushed through the mob, and went to where they keep the pails to water the cab rank—he took up a pail, and threw the pail and the water—nearly all the contents went over Alexander—I stooped down, and the pail caught my hat, and knocked it off, and while I was stooping down Waggett kicked me under the jaw—it hurt me at the time, but I did not feel any effects from it afterwards—I saw Cohen there before Lepine struck me over the eye—Cohen was calling the police vagabonds

and butchers, and calling out to the mob to take the man away, and not let them take him—I saw Cohen take hold of Alexander by the collar, and I pushed him away, and told him not to interfere—he left, and went further back from the mob—I afterwards saw him in custody in Old Street Road at the end of Hoxton Town—after he was in custody he walked quietly to the station—he called me a b—scamp and a scoundrel.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Did he say that you used the man cruelly? A. No—I did not hear him say to Alexander, "I will take your number, you are acting cruelly"—I saw him take hold of his collar—I did not hear him say, "I want your number"—that was directly after 4 o'clock.

Cross-examined by MR. HORRY. Q. Was one or more of the prisoners taken in the station, or near it? A. Wright was taken near the station house.

Waggett. Q. How could I have power to kick you under the jaw when there were so many policemen round me? A. I do not say that you did it wilfully; it was done in the struggle, I believe.

Lepine. Q. Why did not you take hold of me? A. I could not—I saw you throw the water, and saw no more of you till we got outside the station house.

MR. CLERK. Q. Did any of the mob follow down to the station house? A. Yes, a very great number.

GEORGE HASEMAN . (Policeman, N 469). I went on 30th March to Pear Tree Court—I saw Waggett taken, he was very violent—there were bricks thrown—I was hit on the head in the court—we brought Waggett by main force into the High Street—I then saw Lepine; he got hold of Waggett's legs—I told him to let him go—he said, "I sha'n't; you are not going to take him"—Waggett appeared to me almost dead by our pulling him, and the mob trying to get him. away—I was forced down towards his feet, and he kicked me twice in the groin, and once in the side—I am satisfied that they were intentional kicks—I was struck in the back—I tried to use my truncheon to get the mob away, but could not—I saw Ballard; she got hold of Waggett; she was struck by No. 230 with his truncheon on the arm—she struck me on the neck two or three times with her fist—there were two pails of water thrown almost momentarily—I did not see who threw them—I saw Cohen—I heard him say, "You vagabonds, why don't you let the man go quietly?"—I told him he would not go quietly—he said, "You scoundrels, you vagabonds!"—he told the mob to stick to him; he said, "If you will stick to me, I will stick to you"—I cannot say that I saw him do anything, for we were all knocked about in all directions—I was in the doctor's hands eleven weeks, and he recommended me to go to the hospital—I was there six weeks and one day, and I am still an out, patient—I have not been able to do duty—I am still suffering.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. When Mr. Cohen said, "You stick to me, I will stick to you," were there policemen near you? A. Yes—I did not hear Mr. Cohen say, "Don't treat the man cruelly; I will take your number if you do"—I know Mr. Parker, a hatter—I do not know whether he is a witness.

Waggett. Q. Where was I when I kicked you in the groin and in the side, while I was in the hands of so many policemen? A. I was entirely with you by myself at that time, the other officers were engaged with the mob.

Lepine. Q. Why did not you take me when I had hold of his legs? A.

I had enough to do to keep Waggett, and more than I could do—two different lots of water came on us; I cannot say that they were two pails.

Ballard. Q. Why did not you take me? A. Because I was engaged with Waggett—I was very much exhausted then.

WILLIAM TWISS . (Policeman, N 456). I recollect the day this happened—I saw a policeman named French; Dane threw a stone, and hit him on the back of his neck—I saw a great deal of confusion—I saw Lepine there in his shirt sleeves, taking a great part in it—I saw Mr. Cohen there—I took Dane into custody—I saw him take the stone, and waited till he had thrown it.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Did you hear Mr. Cohen say, "I will take your number?" A. No—I was but a very short time there—I was in plain clothes.

WILLIAM GLANTZ . I am a photographic artist, of No. 59, High Street, Shoreditch. On the afternoon of 30th March I was passing from Shoreditch in the direction of the City—I was near Pear Tree Court, and saw Waggett brought out by two policemen—I should think there were from 300 to 500 people—two constables had Waggett in custody, and two more were behind, endeavouring to keep the people back that were assailing them with sticks and stones—I endeavoured to render some assistance to the police, taking hold of Waggett's arms, and I was assailed myself—I saw Dane, I believe, throw a stone, and he was taken by a constable—at Shoreditch Church the mob became more violent, and increased in numbers there, and I saw the police more violently assailed with oyster shells, and one likewise took up a pail with water, and threw the pail and water at the police—at that moment I saw Cohen—he had a piece of paper in his hand, which much resembled an official envelope—it was in the shape of a long letter—he was telling the people that he would see them righted, and stand by them, and the police were butchers and cowards, and it was rascally on their part to drag a man in the way they were doing—I told him that no unnecessary violence was used by the police—I am of opinion that if they had used more they would have fared better—after that language was used by Cohen, the mob was more violent—he seemed to move his hand amongst the people—he might have said a great many more words, but not that I recollect; such as calling the police great vagabonds, and so on.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. I believe before this there were a great many blows by the police? A. I did not see one till the two policemen had brought Waggett out of the court—I saw Waggett, I cannot answer how many times—I dare say at that time there might have been 1, 000 people about—I heard the mob cry, "Shame, shame!"—I went to the police court, but did not give evidence; the Magistrate said sufficient was given to commit the prisoners—I came here because a subpœna was brought me by the sergeant.

JOHN BAKER . I am surgeon to the police. I saw Alexander on 31st March—he was suffering from very great injuries to the head, and bruises all over his body from head to foot, and very serious injury in the loins and lower ribs—his life was in great danger for several weeks—he is still under my hands, and I think I may say he will never do another day's duty as a policeman—my attention was not called to any of the prisoners as having been injured.

WILLIAM JAMES DANIELS . I am house surgeon at St. Bartholomew's Hospital. Haseman was brought there on 15th June—he had been under

Mr. Cowan's care before that—he continued in the hospital about six weeks, suffering in consequence of injuries that he had received on 30th March—he is at this time an out patient.

WILLIAM HOLTHAM . re-examined. When we got to the station Waggett made no complaint of any injury done to him.

SAMUEL PARKER . I am a hatter, and live in High Street, Shoreditch. On 30th March I saw a man in custody of the police near Pear Tree Court—there was a large number of people looking at the police and at the prisoners—they hemmed the police in—I was at my door—I should say I was forty yards from where I first saw them—they came nearer to me, and passed my door—I observed the conduct of the police—I did not observe that they used any unnecessary violence in taking the prisoners—I thought they only acted in the way they were obliged to do to keep their prisoners—I saw them use their staves merely to keep the mob back—I saw Mr. Cohen there—he seemed to be a little excited; no more than any one would be at so fearful a sight; such a number of policemen using their staves to any one coming up at the moment, it appeared fearful—he was saying something, but I could not hear it, there was such a noise.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Was the fearful sight the using these staves? A. Yes—I did not see Mr. Cohen do anything unbecoming a gentleman—I did not see him leading the mob; decidedly not—I first saw him about as far from me as you are now—he crossed from the other side of the way—I got nearer to him within three or four feet—I did not hear him say anything—I could not hear what he said, the noise was so great—he did not appear to be exciting the mob on—he appeared to me to be endeavouring to prevent the policemen from using their staves—that seemed to be his object—I did not see any injury done to the police while I saw him there—I saw the commencement of it—it was a wedding day among some of the lower orders, and one man had a quarrel with his wife—some gentleman objected to one of those wedding guests, being a little tipsy, and he ordered the policeman to take the man, and Waggett and two or three more ran away with him down Pear Tree Court, out of the way of the police—I did not see Mr. Cohen have hold of any policeman—I did not see many persons there as genteelly dressed as Mr. Cohen, they generally get out of mobs—that is rather a dangerous neighbourhood to get into mobs.

Lepine Q. Did you see me throw any water? A. There was some water thrown; I did not see who threw it—I saw Dane throw a stone.

COURT. Q. How far is your door from Pear Tree Court? A. Six or seven houses off; my house is opposite the Church—Cohen went down Old Street Road with the rest of the people—after the mob had passed I followed them—I saw no violence after that—Waggett got up and walked, and after that there was no violence—I lost sight of Mr. Cohen after he got into Old Street Road.

Lepine's Defence. About 3 o'clock the people who had been married came up the street; I went down to see what was the matter; they marched to Shoreditch, and there was a row; I went with a friend, and saw Waggett on the ground; I said, "Get up, and go quietly," and his brother came, and he tried to persuade him to go quietly; I had hold of one arm, and he said, "I will go with that man;" I was going up Hoxton, and saw Mr. Cohen taken in charge; I said, "I saw the same as you did, and I will go and report it;" I went to the station, and they pulled me in;

nobody said that they took me a prisoner; the boy that threw the water has run away.

Bollard's Defence. I was going through the crowd; I saw the man on the ground; I said, "Get up," and they struck me twice on the arm; I went to the station, and they said that I was one, and locked me up.

Dane's Defence. I went along, and a man charged me with throwing a stone; I never had a stone in my hand.

MR. HORRY. called

JOHN WRIGHT . I am the father of the prisoner Wright; I live in Edward's Place, Kingsland Road, about ten minutes walk from Shoreditch Church; I should think it is half a quarter of a mile—I remember the day my son was taken; I received word of his being taken—he lives in the house with me—he was at home all that day—I sent him out for half an ounce of tobacco, between 4 and 5 o'clock, to Mr. Reeves' shop, in William Street; in going there he would have to pass Shoreditch Church—I heard between 6 and 7 o'clock that he was in custody.

Cross-examined by MR. CLERK. Q. How do you know what time it was when he went out? A. I looked at my clock when he went out, and told him not to be gone long—my clock is close by the side of my window—I was ready to go out, and I told him not to be gone long—it was between 4 and 5 o'clock.

MR. COOPER. called

WILLIAM NETHERSTREET . I live in Old Street Road. On that day I was at the gateway of the King's Arms Yard—I saw the man taken by the policeman; he let him go again, and he walked away—he had two companions, and the policeman followed them behind—a gentleman pressed the policeman to go and take the man again—I saw Mr. Cohen there; I was close to him—I saw a man on the ground, and five policemen were holding him—before I got up to them I saw the staves go up and down; I was not close enough to see whether they hit him—I saw Mr. Cohen persuading the police not to ill use the man; he said, "My good men, use the man gently; don't use any violence, take him along steadily"—I did not see him do anything else, no further than calling to the policemen that he would report them for striking the woman over the arm with the staff—he did not make use of the words, "Rescue! rescue!"—he did not call them rogues or vagabonds—he did not say to the mob, "If you will stick to me, I will stick to you"—I did not see him flourish a roll of paper—I was then called into the yard of the King's Arms—I came out again with Mr. Warden's coachman, and the mob had just passed the yard—a woman came running into the yard; it appears it was the man's wife, and the policeman knocked her backwards—Mr. Cohen said to the boys, "Stand back, boys and girls and good people, and get the woman away"—he did not say anything more.

Cross-examined by MR. CLERK. Q. Did you remain at the King's Arms Yard? A. Yes—Mr. Cohen had a small bit of paper in his hand; it appeared to me to be a little book—I have not seen that woman here to-day who was knocked backwards by the policeman—it was No. 236; it was not Ballard—the King's Arms Yard is about forty yards from Shoreditch Church, on the opposite side of the way—I did not see the policemen struck; no violence whatever was done to them.

WILLIAM JERRAM . I manage the business of the Spread Eagle, in Kingsland Road, kept by Mr. Grover. I know all about the wedding on that day, and there was some dispute between a man and a woman—I saw

Mr. Cohen against Mr. Parker, the hatter's—I might be half a dozen yards from him—I heard him say, "Let the man get up and walk quietly;" that was Waggett—there were five policemen dragging him along the ground from the hatter's towards Old Street—Mr. Cohen did not touch a policeman—he did not cry out, "Rescue! rescue!"—I did not hear him say, "Stick to me, and I will stick to you," or anything of the kind—he only said, "Let the man get up, and let him walk quietly"—I did not see him brandish a roll of paper about.

Cross-examined by MR. CLERK. Q. Where were you going? A. On business for my master to Mr. Fulbrook's, four doors from New Inn Yard—I was standing close against Mr. Parker's when I saw the mob—they went from Mr. Parker's to the corner of Old Street—I left them there, and went on my errand—I did not hear any noise in particular; there were a great many persons—I heard some call out, but I do not know what they said.

COURT. Q. Did you hear any noise? A. Not in particular—I think there was no noise to prevent my hearing.

MR. CLERK. Q. Did you see anything done to the police? A. No—I saw one policeman strike the woman three times across the arm with his staff.

COURT. Q. Do you mean there was no great disturbance? A. No further than I saw a mob of people; I went across to see, but they were not attempting to do any thing to the police.

JURY. Q. Were they making a noise? A. Nothing particular; of course there was a noise, but I did not hear anything particular—they were hallooing.

Lepine called

JOHN HOFFORD . On that afternoon Lepine and I left my house and went to Shoreditch together—at the time the water was said to have been thrown, Lepine was standing over the prisoner, and trying to persuade him to walk—the party who threw the water is not in custody—I think I should know him—I can swear Lepine did not; he was standing over Waggett, trying to persuade him to walk—I could not see whether he laid hold of the man.

Cross-examined by MR. CLERK. Q. Where were you when the water was thrown? A. By Mr. Bingley's public house, and Lepine was standing over Waggett, with one leg on each side of him—he was in the mob—I should not suppose I was five yards from him.

Waggett. I have a witness who can prove that Haseman has not been so bad as he represents.

ANN WILSON . I saw Haseman when he came home; he said that he was ill used—he appeared to be so at first, and did not go on duty—they said that he was bad; I thought it was shamming.

COURT. Q. Did he do anything? A. Yes, he dug his garden, and put in beans and flowers—I did not continue to live there; I left in May—he seemed very well, and sung about the yard—he always complained of his back, but I thought he was shamming—I had no quarrel with him when I left; we were on the best of terms.

Cross-examined by MR. CLERK. Q. Did a surgeon come to see him? A. I never saw one—Haseman said that he was going to the hospital for the pain in his back.

WILLIAM ALLEN . I saw the man and woman fighting; it was a man named Lowthorp.

COURT. Q. Was that man taken? A. No, he was allowed to go about

his business—Waggett was taken because a person said to the constable, "You ought to take that man; take him"—"I saw them go towards Pear Tree Court—they passed my door, No. 152, High Street, Shoreditch—I afterwards saw them dragging Waggett on his back, and a large concourse of people following.

Cross-examined by MR. CLERK. Q. Have you ever been in trouble about assaulting the police? A. I have been tipsy before now, and been locked up for it, but never for getting into any difficulty with the police.

WAGGETT— GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

MORGAN— GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.

COHEN— GUILTY .— Confined Six Months, and fined 20l.

LEPINE— GUILTY .— Confined Four Months.

WRIGHT— GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.


DANE— GUILTY .— Confined One Month.

THIRD COURT.—Friday, August 21st, 1857.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Seventh Jury.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-888
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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888. CHARLES OAKHAM , Stealing 1 watch and chain, from the person; having been before convicted: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .**— Six Years Penal Servitude.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-889
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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889. JOSIAH MULL (40), stealing 1 purse, value 67l. 4s., in money, of the Rev. George Bailey Tuson, his master, in his dwelling house.

MR. GIFFARD. conducted the Prosecution.

REV. HERBERT TUSON . I live at Wick, near Bath. From the latter end of Sept. to the beginning of Nov., 1856, I did duty for my uncle, the incumbent of Little Stanmore, and resided in the school house, where I had the exclusive use of a bedroom and sitting room; Sir Henry Ellis occupying the rectory in my uncle's absence—the prisoner lived at the school house, his family consisting of his wife and children and a servant, Maria Ginger, who used to go home to sleep every night—on 6th Nov. I received from Sir Henry Ellis 67l. 4s.; there was one 50l. Bank of England note, three 5l. notes, two sovereigns, and 4s.—I put it into my desk, which was on the table, locked it, and put the key into my pocket—on the following night I went out to dinner; shortly before going, I had to go to my desk, and the money was safe; I locked the desk, and took the key with me—I returned about half past 11 o'clock, and let myself in with a latch key, as every one had gone to bed—I struck a light, and on going into my sitting room, saw that the position of my desk had been altered—I tried it, and found that it was still locked—the window was closed, and I believe fastened—there was a table with a glass vase in front of the window, and seeing that that was undisturbed, I went to bed—next morning, at a little before 7 o'clock, the prisoner came to my door, and asked me if I had left my desk open the night before—I said, "Certainly not"—he said, "It is wide open now, Sir"—I got up immediately, went down stairs, and saw that it was wide open, and the money gone—the staples of the lock had been wrenched, and the vase was removed, and placed on the sofa, which was on one side of the window—I told the prisoner that 67l. 4s. had been taken from the desk,

and that I did not know the number of the notes—I sent for a policeman, and examined the outside of the window, but could see no footmarks on the flower bed under the window—persons might have been there and left no trace; I do not think the ground was damp enough to make a trace—I told the prisoner that Sir Henry Ellis had paid me the money, and he said that possibly some of Sir Henry Ellis's servants had taken it.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. (with MR. TALPOURD SALTER.) Q. How long had you been living in the house? A. Eight or nine weeks—I am five feet ten inches and a half high—I stand higher than the prisoner—Sir Henry Ellis called on me about 12 o'clock in the day, and paid me the money in my sitting room—he had not sent to me to intimate that it was to be paid—I had never received money from him before, it was for the time he had been staying in the house; I do not know how long—he had his own servant—when I received it I put it into the desk, and went up to the rectory with Sir Henry Ellis immediately—I might have been out an hour or an hour and a half—it was the next day that I went out to dinner, I dined with the vicar of Edgeware—I told the prisoner that I did not know the number of the notes, but he did not ask me—he spoke of the loss of some small boxes belonging to him from the sideboard drawers, but I had never seen them—the sideboard drawers had been tumbled about, and were drawn out, I had used the centre drawer; I had a silver pocket private communion service there, which belonged to my uncle; that was not taken, it was quite in front of the drawer—we merely looked at the flower bed, we did not walk over it—I let myself in with an ordinary key, locked the door on the inside, and left the key in the door—a pane of glass was broken close to the clasp, sufficient to admit a hand, so that a person could push it back—there is no outside shutter, the inside shutters were not shut—the prisoner walked about outside the house, and there was a conversation going on between him and the policeman—the servant came in the morning—I received the money on Thursday, this occurred on Friday, and I left on the following Monday or Tuesday, as my uncle returned, and I gave up my lodging, and went to the rectory to reside with him—I had given the prisoner notice before this occurred, one day that week—it was in the following week that the prisoner said something about Sir Henry Ellis's servants, but I cannot recollect whether he gave it as the report, or as his own opinion—I do not know Mrs. Green, of Stanmore, I have heard of her—this matter was greatly talked about—it might have been a report emanating from Mrs. Green.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Very soon afterwards did Sir Henry Ellis give you the numbers of the notes? A. Yes, the same day.

RICHARD ADTE BAILEY . I am a clerk in the Bank Note Office, Bank of England. I produce cancelled notes, one for 50l. and three for 5l. each—they have been paid into the bank—I have searched for a card with the name of Ponsonby on it, which was left at the Bank of England, but it has not been found.

SIR HENRY ELLIS . On 6th Nov. I was residing at Little Stanmore, and went from the rectory to the school house, and paid the Rev. Herbert Tuson 67l. 4s.; there was a 50l. note, and three 5l. notes—I made an entry of the numbers—this is my writing on every one of them, and they are the same notes.

Cross-examined. Q. How do you know that? A. Here are my initials, "H. E." and "Child and Co.," on each of them; and also the name of my butcher, who gave me these two in change for a 10l. note—I made the

marks on them the day before I paid them to Mr. Tuson, because with the exception of the two I got from the butcher, I had got them from my bankers—I have put no date, but here it is in my pocket book, 6th Nov.—I went to the bankers myself that day, and got 70l., a 50l. note, a 10l. note, and two 5l. notes, and two of these notes are what I received from them—I put my initials on them immediately, not in the banking house, but either at my house in Bedford Square, or at Stanmore, it is impossible for me to say—I cannot say whether I put the initials on them the same day that I received them, but out of civility to the Rev. Mr. Tuson, instead of giving him a cheque, I went to town and got the money for him; my house in Bedford Square was dismantled, and therefore I may have put the initials on them in the country—this entry in my diary was made on the 5th or 6th—I entered the numbers in my pocket book when I went home; Mr. Tuson came to me with a policeman next morning, to know if I had taken the numbers, and I took him into my library, and gave them to him from my pocket book—I must have entered them the day before, because he came early in the morning—these two notes with "Healey" on them, I received from my butcher on 5th Nov.—I do not know what became of the other notes I got from Childs', I only took the numbers of those I was to pay to Mr. Herbert Tuson.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Refresh your memory by the book, and tell me the numbers of the notes you paid to Mr. Tuson? A. 50l. note, No. 94094, Feb. 6, 1856, signed, "J. Williams;" a 5l. note, 42175, Aug. 24, 1856, that I had from Childs'; a 5l. note, M. L., 99158, Sept. 12th; and a 5l. note, M. L. 13042, Sept 12th.

MARIA GINGER . Last Nov. I was a servant to the prisoner, and had been so several months. I used to go there between 6 and 7 o'clock in the morning, and go away about 9 o'clock in the evening—on 8th Nov. I went there at about half past 6'clock; the prisoner was up, and in the school—I went into Mr. Tuson's parlour, and saw his desk open—the prisoner was coming out of the school room door, and I said, "Have you been in the parlour this morning?"—he said, "No"—I said, "Will you come in then?"—he came in, and then went up, and called Mr. Tuson.

Cross-examined. Q. Who let you in? A. The prisoner—there was nothing extraordinary in his being up; he was always up before I came—he did not let me in, but the door was open, and he was in the school—he did not say that he had opened the door, I only suppose he had—the things in the parlour were tossed about, and I thought there had been thieves there—the prisoner said that he was writing lectures in the school—I saw him write, and have heard him deliver lectures—in the morning he used to compose the lectures that he had to deliver—I recollect the anniversary of the chapel; it was on a Thursday, I do not know the day of the month—the prisoner was at home the whole of that day—I did not see him the whole day—lie had been asked specially to play the organ on that day—he might have been out of my sight for three hours—I did not see him the whole day on Thursday; he was at the Church sometimes—I got his breakfast that morning, and after that he went into the school to teach the children—he dined at home, and after dinner he went to the school for a short time, and then went to Church to play the organ—I did not get his tea for him; he said that he was going out to tea, to the anniversary, to the chapel—I saw him again in the evening, when it was getting dark—I was not at the chapel in the evening; there was service there in the evening, and I saw him come home, as if he had come from the chapel, with

two friends, at 8 or half past 8 o'clock; I cannot say whether it was 9 o'clock—I know Mr. Green, but I do not think he came home with him, it was with Mr. Kilby—I did not leave that night; I slept there, as Mr. Tuson had left—the prisoner is the organist at the Church, and it was his duty to play the organ every Sunday—this was the anniversary of the chapel, but he had to play at the Church because the people asked him—there is no organ at the chapel.

MR. GIPFARD. Q. Are you sure it was on Thursday? A. Yes—the last time I saw him before he came back at night was after dinner, between 2 and 3 o'clock in the afternoon—I saw him come up from the Church once after he had been to play the organ—he went to play the organ between 2 and 3 o'clock, and it might be between 4 and 5 o'clock that I saw him come out of the Church—I have no means of fixing the time, I saw no clock—from that time till he came back, I did not see him at all—I was out of the house part of the time; I went in and out—when I say it was 9 o'clock, it was getting dark—Mr. Kilby lives at Pinner; he is a friend of the prisoner's—I have seen him once since the prisoner has been taken; it was at Stanmore, about five weeks ago; he was quite well.

MR. RIBTON. Q. Do you know anything about his having gone to Toronto? A. No.

FREDERICK WARNE . I am one of the firm of Routledge and Co., booksellers, of Farringdon Street. I received this letter by post, and gave it to Purday, in due course of business—the envelope is destroyed—envelopes are generally thrown into the waste paper basket, and we used the other half sheet of the letter for waste paper—it was addressed to the firm—we know the Rev. H. Neale, and the order was executed—this "Neale, Oxford, 57," is in Purday's writing.

REV. GEORGE BAILEY TUSON . I am the rector of Little Stanmore. The prisoner was the schoolmaster of the National School. I have frequently seen him write, and have corresponded with him—I believe the letter to be his writing.

Cross-examined. Q. When did you see this first? A. Some few weeks ago, when this prosecution commenced—I attended before the Magistrate—I had seen it before then—I was there to give evidence, but did not do so—I was not asked anything about this letter; it was not produced, for want of the witness who you have just heard; it was objected to by the prisoner's attorney—it had not been shown to me before that inquiry, it was during the inquiry—I have known the prisoner upwards of a year—I have had many notes from him, and have seen his writing continually—this differs from his ordinary writing by being written as if with the left hand; it is sloped the wrong way—I form my belief on the shape of several capital letters, but I do not recollect what they are; let me look at it, and I will tell you—I may perhaps have seen it two or three times (Looking at it)—I form my belief by these two "Ns;" the "N" in Neale and the "N" below—I mean to say that I have observed those two particular letters before to-day—those are the only two capital letters that I can fix upon—there are no other letters like the prisoner's writing, but I believe the whole letter to be his, and the whole of it bears a resemblance to his writing, both capital letters and small—(Letter read:"The Rev. H. Neale, of Oxford, who has been staying for a short time in London, will be glad if Messrs. Routledge will prepare a parcel containing 100 copies of Archdeacon Allen's Penny Hymn Book, and Mr. Neale will take up the

parcel as he rides through Farringdon Street on his way to the railway to-morrow evening, between 7 and 8. Finsbury Circus, Friday morning."

MR. RIBTON. Q. Do not you know that Kilby has gone to Toronto? A. I never heard of the man, or anything connected with him, or Toronto—I have heard that there is a man of that name at Stanmore, but know nothing about his movements.

JOHN PURDAY . I am assistant in the firm of Routledge and Co. Mr. Warne handed me a note, and I caused 100 copies of Archdeacon Allen's Penny Hymn Book to be packed up—about 5 o'clock on Wednesday evening, 6th May, a gentleman called in a cab, and stated that he was a friend of the Rev. H. Neale, and had called for a parcel of 100 hymn books which the Rev. H. Neale had written for a few days before, but was unable to fetch them himself—I brought him out the parcel, and he gave me a 5l. note—I made out a bill for 7s., and not having sufficient change in the house, sent for it by a porter who was gone about ten minutes—during that time I several times went out to the cab, and spoke to the gentleman—at last the change was obtained, and I gave it to him—I wrote, "The Rev. H. Neale" on the note—this is it—here is my writing—the prisoner is the person; I have not the least doubt of him.

Cross-examined. Q. How was he dressed? A. He had a light cravat, a moustache of rather a greyish colour, and I believe a black coat—he had coloured spectacles, his hat was considerably off his forehead, and I remarked the expression of his eyes—I had no particular reason to remark him—I was with him two or three minutes—at one time he leaned forward in the cab—I saw the prisoner next at Edgeware, on 1st July—sergeant Winkle took me there; he asked me a few questions—he asked me where I got the note—he said that he had got a prisoner at Edgeware, and I went down with him to see if that was the man, and several of the other witnesses went—I saw the prisoner in the road, between the police station and the Court house, in custody of two constables, but not walking between them—Winkles was not with me, but Bolingbroke, another officer—he said, "I have got a man here; I am going to bring him out, and if he is the man say so"—the prisoner was then brought out by one policeman, and another joined him in the road—I said that he was the man—I had never seen the gentleman before he called.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Are you still sure he is the man? A. Yes, I have never had any doubt about it.

GEORGE BURNS . I am a printer and engraver, of No. 1, Cambridge Terrace, Edgeware Road. On Saturday, 6th June, a gentleman came in a gig, and ordered me to engrave a card plate with the name of "The Honourable C. F. Ponsonby, Han ford House, Dorsetshire"—he gave it me in writing—this (produced) is it—he was to call for it on the following Wednesday—it was engraved, and this (produced) is the plate—it is not uncommon to keep the plate when we give but the cards—he came on the Wednesday, and was to call again—I believe the prisoner is the man, but I cannot swear to him—the person had a beard, whiskers, and moustache, which, to the best of my belief, were artificial.

Cross-examined. Q. How long did you see him the first time? A. Four or five minutes—the cabman was present—it was about 7 o'clock in the evening when he came, and on the second occasion about 11 in the day—he remained in the cab, and I went out to him—I was taken by a policeman to Edgeware to see if I could identify him—I saw Purdy there, and

saw the prisoner on the road, in the custody of a policeman—I was told that there were some prisoners coming out, and I went into the road and saw several men walking with policemen—I was subpœnaed down to Edgeware as a witness, and went down with the other witnesses and a policeman—I had been told that a man was in custody, and when I saw the prisoner he was in custody.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Were there others beside the prisoner in the road? A. Yes—there was nothing to attract my attention to him more than the other men—he was not pointed out to me by any one—that was at the time that Purdy was there.

JAMES DOLLING . I am engraver to Mr. Burns. I engraved this plate, and the proof card from it was delivered into Mr. Burns' hand—this (produced) is the instruction paper.

WILLIAM LEWIS WILLIAMS . I am clerk and collector to George Burns. The first time I saw the prisoner was on Wednesday, the 10th, or Thursday, the 11th June; he was in a cab, between Nos. 1 and 2, Cambridge Terrace—our offices are down stairs, and in consequence of what one of the boys said I went up, and met a cabman—he directed me to the prisoner, who was sitting in the cab—I asked him whether he had come for the cards in the name of Ponsonby—he said, "Yes"—I left him, and fetched the proof card, and asked him whether it was to his taste—he said that he liked it very much, and said, "I suppose I can take this card?"—I said, "In all transactions of this kind we require a deposit"—he drew out a florin, and one or two pieces more silver—I received the florin as a deposit—he said that he would call for the remainder of the cards on Saturday, on his way to the Great Western station, and took the proof card away with him—I hesitated about giving it to him, but he said that he particularly wished it, to show to his lady, and therefore I could not withhold it—I have no doubt the prisoner is the person—he wore a wig, and whiskers, and moustache all in one piece—I could see a kind of sticking plaster under the moustache—I heard him speak two or three words before the Magistrate at Edgeware, and having heard him speak previously, I am quite satisfied of his voice—that assisted me most materially in my identification.

Cross-examined. Q. What time was it? A. Between 6 and 7 o'clock—I afterwards went down to see if I could identify him—I expressed a doubt before the Magistrate as to whether this was on the Wednesday or Thursday—I inclined to the latter day, because I believe there was only one day intervening between his visit and his calling for the cards—that would allow a day to print and dry them—if I was obliged to fix a day, I should fix on Thursday—he did not come out of the cab—it was about ten minutes' walk from the Great Western station—I went down with the other witnesses to Edgeware for the purpose of seeing whether a man who was suspected of something wrong was the person to whom I delivered the card—Winkles did not tell me that he had got the fellow in custody—I went down with Whittaker, and saw the prisoner coming out of Church on Sunday—I was placed in a room commanding a view of the Church, and was told that the schoolmaster would come out that way, and I could judge for myself whether he was the man—he came out alone with his hat off, and then I said that he was the man—I was positive to a certain extent, and after I had heard his voice I was superlatively convinced, though I was not short of absolute certainty in the first instance—the voice came as a piece of correlative evidence—I might say that it was you addressing this Court if I was behind you, but I should be much better satisfied if I stood in front of you—they

were very large, bushy whiskers—the moustache was not excellent; the whole affair was more like the dress of a Guy on the 5th of Nov.—it was a very outlandish dress—no one would have worn it to disguise their features, because it was so palpable that it was disguise.

WILLIAM COX BENNETT . I carry on the business of a watchmaker and jeweller for my brother, at No. 65, Cheapside. On Saturday, 13th June, about 7 o'clock in the evening, a gentleman drove up in a brougham, and in consequence of a message brought into the shop to me, I went to the carriage door—there was a gentleman in it who wished to see some tenguinea gold watches, as he wished to make some presents to his tenants, the farmers—I said, "You had better have silver ones, as they will have rough usage"—he handed me a card, which my assistant afterwards left at the Bank of England—I looked at the card, but do not think I addressed him by any name—I filed the card—I made out an invoice in the name of Ponsonby, and gave it to him.

WILLIAM THOMAS ROTHWELL . I am clerk to the solicitor for the prosecution. I served a notice to produce on the prisoner on 14th Aug., of which this (produced) is a copy.

WILLIAM COX BENNETT . re-examined. I made out the invoice to "The Honourable C. F. Ponsonby, Hanford House, Dorsetshire," and gave it, together with five watches, to the gentleman, and he paid me with this 50l. note (produced)—this "Honourable C. F. Ponsonby, 15: 6:'57" on it is my writing—the clerk had left early—he had made up the books before he left, and therefore all entries were made as of the following Monday—on the following Monday I saw this 50l. bank note at the Bank of England—I do not remember whether it had a card pinned to it then—the numbers of the watches are 39984, of which the stock number is 5992; 39982, stock number, 6033; 39987, stock number, 6035; 39985, stock number, 6034; 39993, stock number, 6039.

Cross-examined. Q. You do not swear to the prisoner? A. I cannot positively swear to him—I should think the conversation lasted over eight or ten minutes—he was dressed in black—he had dark hair, dark beard and whiskers, large dark spectacles, and a white neck handkerchief—there was snuff on the front of his shirt—he had rather a ruddy complexion, but he sat back in the carriage, in the shade, and it was difficult for me to get a clear view of him—a livery servant was standing by—I was taken down to Edgeware three times.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Have you any belief whether the prisoner is the man? A. I believe him to be the man.

JAMES HAYES . I am assistant to Mr. Kirkham, a pawnbroker, of No. 208, Strand, I produce a watch pledged with me on Saturday evening, 13th June, about 8 o'clock—I advanced 5l. on it—it is marked 39982, Bennett—he was not in front of the counter—he stood behind a female, so that I could not see him distinctly—the gas was not alight.

Cross-examined. Q. How long did the interview last? A. Three or four minutes—he gave the name of James Mills, No. 3, Bream's Buildings, Chancery Lane.

THOMAS DURRANT . I am assistant to Dobree and Tomlinson, pawnbrokers. On 13th June, a watch was pledged with me, about a quarter to 8 o'clock, in the name of James Mills,—I advanced 5l. upon it—this (produced) is it—it is marked, Bennett, 39993.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you converse with the person? A. As much as I usually do with customers—he stood in front of the counter—he was a

man of about my build, about 5 feet 9 or 10 inches—he wore a moustache and whiskers, and had a florid complexion—he had a dark coat.

STEPHEN WHITTAKER . I am assistant to Mr. Young, a pawnbroker, of Princes Street, Leicester Square. On Saturday evening, 13th June, the prisoner pledged a silver watch for 4l. with me—I have no doubt he is the man—he gave the name of Edmund Sims, No. 14, Praed Street, Richmond—he was there about ten minutes—I afterwards described him, and identified him at Edgeware, coming out of Church—I have no doubt of him—this is the watch—the number is 39984.

Cross-examined. Q. What time was it? A. It was between 8 and 9 o'clock—he had a dark coat on, dark spectacles, his hat was over his eyes, but he had no disguise more than he has now, except the spectacles—his whiskers were just as he has them now—there were five or six customers in the shop, on the same side as he was—Saturday is not a very busy evening with us—I suppose none but the aristocracy pawn their watches with us—I went down to Edgeware on the Sunday week with Winkle—he asked me to go down to identify the prisoner, as Luxmore could not—I did describe the prisoner to Mr. Tuson on the Wednesday following the pledging.

Cross-examined. Q. Did Winkle tell you that he had anybody in custody? A. No, he told me I was to go down to Edgeware to see the schoolmaster there—I was put into a room with Williams and others—Winkle was there, and Mr. Grant—I cannot tell whether Winkle said that the schoolmaster would come out in a certain direction, but I understood so—I had heard that the schoolmaster was suspected of being the man—I was half an hour or more in the room—I had no ale there—I knew what I was there for—I had never seen the schoolmaster before that night.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Before you went down to Edgeware, did you give a description to Mr. Tuson of the man who pledged the watch? A. Yes, and was afterwards taken down to see the schoolmaster—I recognized him as the man—I have no doubt of him.

JAMES CHAMBERS . I am assistant to Mr. Luxmore, a pawnbroker, of No. 92, St. Martin's Lane. On Saturday evening, 13th June, between 8 and 9 o'clock, the prisoner came—I have no doubt he is the man—he offered a watch in pledge for 8l.—he was singularly dressed, and his appearance excited my suspicion—it was a new watch, and he said that he had bought five of them at Bennett's, for the purpose of giving to his tenantry—I put it on one aide, and kept him a few minutes, while I went out and had an interview with my partner—I then came back, and asked him if he would take 4l. on the watch—he said, "No, I cannot take less than 5l. "—I put the watch on the counter, and he took it up—I again asked him to let me look at it, and he did so—I saw our assistant, and the prisoner was asked into a private office, and after a few words he left, saying that he would call on Monday—he left the watch with us—I told him we should inquire about it, as we did not feel satisfied—he left, saying that he must pocket the affront, or something of that sort, in a very low voice—he never called again—I observed his face, and thought he had false whiskers on—they were inclined to be dark, but there was a tinge of sandy hair behind his ears as he turned to go away—he wore a pair of dark glasses—I believe he is the man.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. You have only a suspicion that he is the man? A. I feel perfectly certain he is the man—there might be a doubt in the world, but there is none in my mind—I went down to Edgeware with the other witnesses—I was summoned concerning the watches—I knew I should see the man who had pawned the watches—I was at the

police station, and he was walked into the room with some other person—Winkle said nothing, but afterwards, when I came outside, he asked me if I thought that that was the person—I said that I believed he was—I recognised his features—I saw him in the shop about three minutes—my master did not see him; my fellow assistant, Webling, did—he went down with me on the third occasion to Edgeware—I live in St. Martin's Lane, not very far from Princes-street, and have been in the neighbourhood twelve years—the shop is lighted with gas—I had never seen the prisoner before.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Did you go into the police station? A. Yes—there were one or two people inside the room into which I was shown—Winkle was not with me there at that time—it was from the inside of that station that the prisoner and the other one came—Winkle did not point out either of the men to me—I went outside to him, leaving the prisoner and the other man in the room—some conversation then ensued respecting the prisoner, I believe—I believe he asked me whether I could recognise anybody there, and I said, yes, and that one of them was the man.

COURT. Q. Was the second man dressed in plain clothes? A. Yes—I do not know who he was.

ALBERT JAMES WEBLING . I am assistant to Mr. Luxmore. On Saturday, 13th June, my fellow shopman brought a silver watch by Bennett from the back office to the front—I afterwards gave it to Winkles—I went into the back office, and found a lot of people there—I saw the prisoner there—I have no doubt about him—he had a false moustache and whiskers—I asked him if I had not seen him before without his moustache and whiskers—he said that he had put them on for a lark, as he was going to a theatre—I went into the front shop again, and then came round the counter to the prisoner, and asked him to step into an inner office—he did so, and I said that I should not like to lend so much on the watch without properly seeing into it, and that I would have it properly seen to, and if it was by Bennett really, I would lend him the money he wanted—he said, that as I suspected him, he should like an acknowledgment that I had the watch—I asked him his name—he said, "Edward Simmons, 13 (or 16), Praed Street, Richmond"—I gave him an acknowledgment, with that name and address on it—I next saw him at Edgeware—I stood at the door of the police office, and saw him come down the street, with from eight to twelve men, not policemen—I stood with a small crowd—no one pointed him out to me—I recognised him instantly, though he wore his hat differently when I saw him—I have no doubt about his being the person.

Cross-examined. Q. Was he the only one in custody? A. I presume he was in custody—I will not say whether he was next to a policeman—(the conversation at our place may have lasted twenty minutes)—I do not think a policeman was walking along having hold of his arm—if he had at all changed countenance, or become discomposed, when I said, "Have I not seen you without your whiskers and moustache?" I should have called a policeman—I did not think that I had seen him before—they were large bushy whiskers, and I saw that he had a wig as he was leaving the office.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Was there anything to direct your attention to the prisoner more than to the others? A. Nothing whatever.

SAMUEL WINKLES . (Policeman, S 191). I went to Edgeware on 10th Nov., 1856, to make inquiries about the robbery—the school house is in the parish of Little Stanmore—I examined the premises carefully, and said in the prisoner's presence, "This robbery has been committed by somebody in the house, or somebody has come in at the door with a key"—there were

no marks or any traces on the window sill, and there were bits of glass there which must have been moved if a person had come in that way—the casement window was broken, and I have no doubt from the inside, because the lead, with the diamond panes in it, was pushed outwards—it could be turned back with a finger and thumb, and the glass removed without breaking it, and then the catch removed—this watch (produced) Webling gave me; it is marked Bennett, 39, 987—on 21st June I took the prisoner into custody; he said that he was innocent—on the road to the station he asked me who those two men were that were there—I said that they were from London, and I told him afterwards that they were shopmen, and said, "If you can prove to me that you were not in London on Saturday week, you will be all right;" he said, "I was in London on the Wednesday before; and if I was in London on Saturday I can confirm where I was."

Cross-examined. Q. When did you examine the premises? A. On the Monday following; the robbery was on Saturday morning—a sergeant had been there before me—I only searched the room where the robbery was committed—the prisoner was there on the Monday evening—I saw his wife there on the Sunday—I took him into custody on Sunday, 21st June, after he had been identified by two witnesses I took down, Williams and Whit-taker—other witnesses were summoned to appear—I took them down on Sunday by an omnibus—it takes about two hours to go down to Edgeware—the prisoner lived in Great Stanmore—the same coach goes to Stanmore; but the prisoner was apprehended on Sunday, at 1 o'clock, coming from the Church, which is 400 or 500 yards from Edgeware—when I put these questions to him he was in custody—he said that he was surprised he should be taken, he knew nothing of it.

THE REV. GEORGE BAILEY TUSON . re-examined. I do not know the date of the anniversary. I recollect a number of people coming up to see my Church, and hear the organ, but I do not know the day.

HENBY COOK . (Policeman, S 109). Cross-examined by MR. RIBTOK. Q. Do you remember the anniversary of the Independent Chapel at Edgeware? A. Yes; it was on a Thursday, and I think in June, but am not quite certain—I cannot find out unless I go home—I know it was Thursday; there were bills out about it—I recollect the day the prisoner was taken, it was 21st June—I cannot tell how many days before that the anniversary was.

MR. RIBTON. to MARIA GINGER. Q. Do you recollect in what month the anniversary was? A. I think it was in June—I do not know whether it was the first week or the second—I have no means of finding out; but, as near as I recollect it was rather more than a week before Mull was taken into custody—it was on a Thursday.

GUILTY. of stealing in the dwelling house, but not as a servant. — Four years Penal Servitude.

FOURTH COURT.—Friday, August 21st, 1857.


Before Michael Prendergast, Esq., Q. C., and the Third Jury.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-890
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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890. JOHN BIGGS (20), Unlawfully carnally knowing and abusing Elizabeth Coney, aged 10 years and 2 months: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Wine Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-891
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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891. GEORGE WILDBLOOD (32), Unlawfully attempting to commit b—with Edwin Seyforth.


17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-892
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceMiscellaneous > sureties

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892. JOHN KEEFE (27), Unlawfully carnally knowing and abusing Jane Simpson, aged 11 years and 6 months.

GUILTY .— To appear and receive judgment when called upon.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-893
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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893. JAMES DIXON (33), for a like offence, upon the same child.


17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-894
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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894. CHARLES DE MTCHALYI (45), Unlawfully attempting to carnally know and abuse Sarah Emma Baxter.

GUILTY .— Confined Four Months.


Before Mr. Justice Crowder.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-895
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

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895. FRANCIS STANLEY (24), Feloniously stabbing and wounding John Gilbert, with intent to do him some grievous bodily harm.

MR. ROBINSON. conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN GILBERT . I live at Plaistow, and am a mariner. On 2nd Aug. I left the Victoria Dock Tavern with my wife and sister about 11 o'clock at night—I went with them towards my home—after going some distance I saw the prisoner, he came past my wife and sister, who were about 50 yards ahead of me—I heard him say some words as he passed them, but what it was I do not know—he came up to me, and he said, "What do you think of that?"—I said, "Of what?"—he said, "Of them women"—I said, "I know nothing about them"—no other words passed between us—with that he made a blow at me, but missed me—he said, "I have missed you, and a good job for you"—and with that he made a second blow at me—I put up my arm to ward the blow off, and on pulling my arm down I found my hand full of blood—the blow was given as if he made it at my face—after my receiving the blow, Mr. Smith came up and wanted to know what was the matter—my wife said, "This man has struck my husband"—Mr. Smith said, "Where is he?" and before he could get the words out of his mouth the prisoner made a blow at Mr. Smith, and hit him—Mr. Smith kicked him down with his foot, he got up and ran away as fast as he could—I had only one blow, but I had three cuts—Mr. Smith took me to Mr. Morris's surgery—I did not see any weapon with the prisoner.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Was not the prisoner drunk? A. No, not the least, he had been drinking, but was not any way tipsy—I could see he had been drinking, but he was not any ways out of the way—I did not strike him on the head—I had received my injury before Mr. Smith came up—I did not see Mr. Smith lay hold of him by the collar—I did not see that there was a struggle between them, and that they both fell down—this was about 11 o'clock at night, I had been at work on board a steam vessel—we left work about half past 9 o'clock, and I met my wife and sister, and we all three went to the Victoria Dock Tavern—we had nothing but porter to drink—I was going home—it was about a quarter of a mile to my house.

ELIZABETH KING . I am the wife of John King, of Plaistow. On the night of 2nd Aug. I was at the Victoria Dock House in company with my brother, the last witness, and his wife—as we were going home we met the

prisoner—the first thing he did, he insulted me and my sister, and we got further into the road to avoid him, and he turned round and used very awful language—he went up to my brother, and he said something to him—I went up to him, and the prisoner said, "I have struck at you and missed you, and a good job"—he then struck at him—I do not know whether he hit him or not—I saw his arm up—I could not see whether he had any thing in his hand—it was dark—I saw the blood come from my brother's hand—I went up to him, and said, "Oh, you villain"—he said, "I have murdered one or two, and I will murder you"—I then saw my own arm bleeding—I had a small cut, but I never felt the blow—there was no one near me who could have cut me but the prisoner.

EDWARD JOHN MORRIS . I am a surgeon, and live at West Ham: On the night of 2nd Aug. the prosecutor came to my surgery about half past 11 o'clock, he was suffering from an incised wound, extending from the palm of the right hand about four inches up the wrist—the wound was not very deep, it had gone through the two skins, and some of the superficial arteries were cut—there was an incised wound on the back of the middle finger about two inches long, and about a quarter of the top of the right thumb was cut off—there were small scratches up the arm as if the knife had gone up, but very trifling—there was a great deal of hemorrhage—the wounds were not particularly dangerous—they were produced by some sharp instrument.

COURT. Q. Could those three wounds have been inflicted by one blow? A. Yes, if the prosecutor had his hand shut they might have been done by one blow.

The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows:

"I never used a knife at all."

(The prisoner's captain gave him a good character.)

GUILTY. of unlawfully wounding. — Confined Twelve Months.

Before Michael Prendergast, Esq., Q. C.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-896
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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896. WILLIAM BRAZIER (26), Stealing 3 tame fowls, price 8s.; the goods of Thomas Ward MR. W. J. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM BENGE . (Policeman, K 436). On Sunday morning 12th July, between 2 and 3 o'clock, I saw the prisoner in Abbey Lane, West Ham, coming towards me from the Barking Road with a bundle under his arm—I asked him what he had got; he said, "Nothing"—I felt the bundle, and found some fowls quite warm—these (produced) are the feet of them—I took him to the station—he said that he bought them of Daniel Wood, of No. 6, High Street, Poplar—he ran away about twenty yards, and I caught him again—I made inquiry, and Thomas Ward identified them.

Cross-examined by MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Have you been to Poplar? A. Yes—no such person lives there—it is a tailor's shop—the prisoner said at the station that he had bought them of a man in Plaistow Marsh—it was about a quarter to 2 o'clock on Sunday morning.

THOMAS WARD . I live at Hampton Cottage, Barking Road. On this Saturday night, about 9 o'clock, my fowls were locked up in the fowl house safe—the same fowls were shown to me on Sunday morning, about 6 o'clock, by a policeman—I identified them, and then missed my fowls, and found the wire window broken out of the fowl house—I missed six fowls out of nine—I know the prisoner by sight, but not to speak to.

Cross-examined. Q. Was the fowl house locked? A. Yes—the prisoner

has worked in the same yard with me at Messrs. Mare's, but it is two years and six months since I left—the yard has been shut up since that.

GUILTY .— Confined One Month.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-897
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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897. JOHN RANDALL (38), Stealing 1 pump, value 5l., belonging to Joseph Emery, and fixed to a building.

PATRICK WHITSTON . (Policeman, N 129). On Thursday, 23rd July, about 11 o'clock in the morning, I met the prisoner in Wanstead, with a bundle—I asked him what he had got, he said some dishes which he had brought from his brother's, but I found it was part of a force pump—he said that he brought it from his employer at Wanstead, and was taking it to Stratford Bridge to be repaired—I told him he had better come with me to his master—he came about 100 yards to a lonely part of the road, threw down the bundle and said, "I will go no further"—I caught him, and he said, "If you will bring the bundle I will go"—I stopped to pick up the bundle, and he threw me on my neck, which has been stiff ever since—I cannot turn my head without turning my body also—another constable came up, and we conveyed him to the station—I was in bed six days.

JOSEPH EMERY . I live at Low Leyton—on this Thursday, some pieces of a force pump were shown to me by a policeman—they belonged to my pump, which was all right on Tuesday—these pieces fit.

Prisoner's Defence. I saw a man under a hedge hiding something; I waited a few minutes, and after he had left I went there and found this piece of a pump in the bushes; I carried it two or three miles, and the policeman stopped me.

GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-898
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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898. WILLIAM MAISEY (28), was indicted for stealing 13 metal caps and other articles, value 7l. 14s., the property of our Lady the Queen, his mistress: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-899
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

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899. JOHN HOSKINS (21), Stealing a pair of boots, value 12s., the goods of Edward Phillips: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.

Before Michael Prendergast, Esq., Q. C.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-900
VerdictGuilty > unknown

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900. MARY WILLIAMS (28), was indicted for unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. BODKIN. conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES WEEKS . I am the son of William Weeks, who keeps the Red Lion, at Plumstead. On 12th July, a little after 5 o'clock in the afternoon, the prisoner came and asked for 2d. worth of gin and some cold water, I served her, and she paid with a 5s. piece—I put it into the till, and gave her change—there was no other crown in the till—she went away, and my father came in about 10 minutes afterwards—no one had been to the till in the mean time—he looked at the crown—it was bad.

WILLIAM WEEKS . When I came in I looked at the crown piece in the till—there was only that one there, I examined it, and found it was bad—I wrapped it in paper, and kept it apart from other coin—on the following

Wednesday my wife was serving in the bar, but previous to the prisoner passing the money then; I had served her half a pint of beer, and she had paid me two halfpence, and then I left my wife with her—about half an hour afterwards I looked in the till and found a bad 5s. piece—I sent after her, and she was brought back—my wife said in her presence, "She gave me that crown piece"—the prisoner said her husband gave it her on the Saturday night for his work—she was given in charge.

GEORGE RANDALL . I keep the Plume of Feathers, at Plumstead. On Sunday, 12th July, the prisoner came shortly after 5 o'clock, she asked for a glass of 6d. ale, and gave me a 5s. piece, and I gave her change—she went away—I looked at the crown piece in two or three minutes, I found it was bad—I sent the potman after the prisoner—she was brought back—I asked her if she knew what she had given me, she said, "Yes, a crown piece"—I said it was bad—she seemed very much surprised, and said she had got no more money in her possession—I said, "Never mind that, give me the change and I will give you the glass of ale;" she gave me back the 4s. 10 1/2 d.—I returned her the crown—we take a great deal of silver—I tried the crown with my teeth, it was a bad one.

Prisoner. I was not the woman. Witness. I am certain she is.

JOSEPH MARTIN . (Policeman, R 151). I took the prisoner, and produce these two crowns. I got one from Mr. Weeks, the other from Mrs. Weeks.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin to the Royal Mint—these crowns are both bad, and from the same mould.

GUILTY .— Confined Eight Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-901
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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901. THOMAS WILSON (22), Stealing 1 sovereign, and 17s., the moneys of George Gibbons, from his person.

MR. GENT. conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE GIBBONS . I live at No. 7, Lovegrove Place, East Greenwich. On Saturday night, 8th Aug., I went to a coffee shop in Church Street, Greenwich, about 10 minutes before 12 o'clock—I called for a cup of coffee—I went to sleep there—I had in my pocket a sovereign, one 5s. piece, two half crowns, two 2s. pieces, and 3s. 6d. in small silver—I had counted it not ten minutes before I entered the house, and secured it in my right hand breeches pocket—I was quite sober—I went to that house because I thought my wife would be gone to bed, and I thought I would have a cup of coffee—it was on my way home—I was tired with walking—I had taken change for a sovereign of Mr. Wood, at the Lord Nelson public house on that Saturday morning, and I particularly noticed one half crown that I received of him, it had the letter J under the word Rex—I had that coin before I went into the coffee shop—that coin has been since shown to me by the constable—this is it—I had not bought anything of the prisoner.

Prisoner. He said in his deposition that he did not recollect whether he had bought any pears of me or not—he had bought a 1d. worth of pears, and he gave me that half crown. Witness. I did not; I have not bought a pear of him or of any one since I have been at Greenwich, which is six years—I do not like them.

FRANCIS WARD . I keep the Lord Nelson in Trafalgar Road, Greenwich—the last witness called on me on Saturday, 8th Aug.; he was going to Sheerness—he asked for change for a sovereign, which I gave him; it consisted of large money; there was a 5s. piece and several half crowns—this half crown (produced) I know to be one that I had in my possession; and I believe I gave it to the prosecutor in change for the sovereign—I have

looked over all my other silver, and if this half a crown had been there I certainly should have seen it, as I count all my silver on Saturday night.

EDWARD MANCHESTER . I am a labourer in a dust yard—I went into the coffee shop in Church Street, Greenwich, on Saturday night, 8th Aug., about half past 12 o'clock—I saw Mr. Gibbons there; he was asleep, with his head lying on the table; I saw the prisoner sitting opposite to him on the same seat—there were other persons there who seemed to be friends of the prisoner—the prisoner got under the table, and unbuttoned the prosecutor's trowsers, and took the money out of his right hand pocket, and I saw him get from under the table with the money in his mouth—the other persons who were there appeared to know the prisoner; they spoke to him, and they all walked out—I had not an opportunity of doing anything, as the coffee shop was full, and I was afraid of their knocking me about—they threatened to kill me on the Sunday night—they were hunting me all about the place—I was afraid to say anything at the time—I could not speak to the keeper of the coffee shop, because there were so many in the coffee shop—I gave information in the morning, when the prosecutor awoke; I told him himself when he was inquiring of the coffee shop man.

Prisoner. It would be impossible for him to see me under the table. Witness. I did see you.

JAMES KING . (Policeman, R 168). In consequence of information I went to Rose Street Greenwich, on Sunday morning, 9th Aug., with the prosecutor and the last witness—I saw the prisoner; I told him I wanted him for robbing Mr. Gibbons of 1l. 17s. 6d. at the coffee shop—I asked him if he was there—he said he was there a little after 12 o'clock, but he said he knew nothing of the stealing—I took him to the station; I found on him this half crown, two shillings, one sixpence, and three halfpence in copper, a duplicate, and a knife—I heard the prosecutor say he could swear to this half crown.

Prisoner. It is not likely he should sleep there till 5 o'clock in the morning and not go home without he was intoxicated; he was lying with his head on the table; he had bought some pears of me, and gave me the half crown.


The prisoner was also charged with having been before convicted.

WILLIAM CROUCH . (Policeman, R 118). I produce a certificate (Read: "Central Criminal Court, October, 1851, Thomas Wilson, Convicted of Larceny, after a previous conviction, Transported for Seven Years")—I was present, and had him in custody—the prisoner is the man.

GUILTY.— Ten Years Penal Servitude.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-902
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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902. GEORGE SCANDLING (18), Stealing 5 lbs. weight of leaden pipe, value 1s. 6d., the goods of Charles Sewell and another, fixed to a building.

MR. THOMPSON. conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE SIMMS . (Policeman, R 229). On 16th July I was on duty at Sydenham, at a little before 8 o'clock in the evening, and met the prisoner—he said, "What shall I do with this, policeman?" having a piece of lead pipe—I asked him where he got it from—he said, "In Longton Grove"—I told him that he had no business with it, he had better take it to the station—I followed him there, and then he said that he got it near a well in a field belonging to Mr. Sewell—I went there, and found that some pipe had been broken off recently—the well was dry—there were some unfinished buildings there.

GEORGE CHAPMAN . I work for Charles and Frederick Sewell at some

buildings at Sydenham—the policeman brought me this piece of pipe—I took it to the well, and it fitted exactly—this was on 16th July, and I had seen it safe on the 13th—it was broken off about fourteen yards from the main—it is worth 15d.

Prisoner's Defence. I was returning from work, and had to come by Longton Grove; I saw the lead lying on the ground, and instantly picked it up and put it on my shoulder, and went and asked the policeman what I had better do with it; he said that I had better take it to the station; I went one way and he the other; and when I got there, he had been waiting for me five or ten minutes; the Magistrate asked me whether I would have it settled there, or go for trial, and prove my innocence; and I said that I would go for trial.


17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-903
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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903. GEORGE HARIUSS (32), (a soldier,) Stealing 1 watch, 1 chain, 1 coat, and other articles, value 5l. 6s., and 3l. in money, the property of Theophilus Vaughton, his master.

MR. DOYLE. conducted the Prosecution.

THEOPHILUS YAUGHTON . I am a lieutenant in the Royal Marines, stationed at Woolwich, the prisoner is a private in the same corps, and has been my servant two years—on Wednesday morning, 22nd July, I went on duty soon after 10 o'clock—the prisoner was in charge of my quarters—I returned about half past 11 o'clock on the following day, and he was not there—I missed a silver watch with a gold chain attached to it, a key in the shape of a gun, three sovereigns from a small box, a black coat, a pair of trowsers, a waistcoat, and a pair of boots—gave information, and the prisoner was brought to my quarters in the afternoon dressed in my clothes.

Prisoner. Have not I been in the habit of taking your watch when you have been on guard? Witness. Yes; but you had no right to take my clothes—I have got all the things back except the three sovereigns—I did not ask you if you wanted any money—the room door is sometimes left open, and tradesmen occasionally go in—I remained on guard twenty-four hours.

OLIVIA KENSEY . I am the wife of Joseph Kensey, of Woolwich—the prisoner came to our beer shop on Thursday morning, 23rd July, between 6 and 7 o'clock, with a gentleman and two young girls—they had a pot of porter first, then a pot of ale with ginger beer in it, after that they ordered breakfast for four—they had the breakfast, and after that came out of the tap room to the bar and had some more ginger beer—one of the girls said, "You had better leave your watch at the bar for fear you might lose it," and they persuaded him to do so, and they went away—he was dressed like a gentleman in a black coat, and had a watch and chain outside—he paid me in silver, but I had changed him a sovereign previously for the ale and ginger beer—the woman afterwards came back and said that she had come for the watch by the prisoner's orders, but I would not give it up unless he came himself, and about 1 o'clock they all returned—I fetched the watch, the girl took it, and he said that it was quite right, and then he said, "Give the mistress the watch back again," and he said to me, "Lend me ten shillings on it"—the gentleman with her ordered dinner for three—the other girl was not there then, and while they were having it the sergeant came.

COURT. Q. How far are you from the barracks? A. About half a mile—I did not know him before, or the female—I believe she is a girl of the town—the sergeant went away with the prisoner, and the other two finished their dinner, what they could not eat they took away with them.

AMELIA CLARKE . I am single, and live at Woolwich—I met the prisoner

on 22nd July, and passed the night with him at my house—I had breakfast with him next morning at the house of the last witness—he ordered dinner and went away—I asked him to leave his watch with Mrs. Kensey, and he left his watch and chain with her—we left the house together, and he afterwards sent me to Mrs. Kensey for the watch; she refused to give it, and I went back to the prisoner, and we went to Mrs. Kensey together—he asked her to give me the watch, and she did so, and directly afterwards a sergeant of marines came and apprehended the prisoner—another officer's servant was with the other girl—I did not know that the prisoner had got his master's clothes on—they were not too big for him—I had seen him in private clothes before.

JOSEPH WALLACE . I am colour sergeant of the Royal Marines stationed at Woolwich. From information I received on 23rd July, I went in search of the prisoner, and found him at a beer shop—I took him to his quarters, and had him confined, as he had been guilty of a military offence, being absent—he had on a black coat and waistcoat, which were afterwards identified by his master—I asked him what he had done with the money; he said that he had spent it—I asked him what he had done with the watch and chain; he said that he had left it with the girl who was in his company—I went to the females, and they gave me this watch, and chain, and key (produced).

Prisoner. Q. Did not I go into my master's bed room before you took me to the guard room? A. I took you there—you had been drinking, but were capable of taking care of yourself.

THEOPHILUS VAUGHTON . re-examined. This is my watch and chain.

JOHN NEVILL . (Policeman, R 59). I took the prisoner on 24th July, and told him he was charged with stealing clothes, a watch and chain, and 3l., of his master—he said, "The money I never saw, and what money I have spent was my own"—at the station I asked him whether he had got anything upon him—he said, "No"—I searched him and found this scarf belonging to his master in his trowsers pocket.

Prisoner. I did not take off that scarf till after I was in the guard room, but next day I put it into my pocket, and the policeman found it there.

Witness. That is correct.

THEOPHILUS VAUGHTON . re-examined. I had not given him this scarf.

Prisoner's Defence. I was tipsy when I took the clothes; I did not intend to steal them when I put them on; I gave the watch to the landlady to take charge of till the evening—I had been to sea, and came home in the Vesso with 40l. in my pocket.

OLIVIA KENSEY . re-examined. I did not lend him any money on the watch—I said that he had sufficient to drink, and did not want money—I thought he wanted the watch to come into my possession as he could not get it from the female—she took it, and then he said, "Give it to the mistress; lend me 10s. on it"—the girl said, "No, you want no 10s.; what you want I will pay for"—I thought that was a little scheme of his to get it from her.

THEOPHILUS VAUGHTON . re-examined. His pay was 14d. a day; he has to pay 4 1/2 d. a day for his rations, and he received 2s. a week from me—I should doubt his having money—my money was in a box with a till underneath it—the prisoner knew that I kept it there—I put the sovereigns there just before I went on guard—I know that he had a considerable sum of money coming to him, but they go away on furlough, and it is very seldom that they bring anything back—he might have had some.

AMELIA CL✗ . re-examined. He was the worse for liquor when I saw him between 8 and 9 o'clock in the evening, and so was the other, who was another officer's servant, who had money and called for some drink.


17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-904
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

904. ANN POWSEY (36) and ELIZABETH POWSEY (13), Stealing 1 metal pot, value 1s. 8d., the goods of Charlotte Thomas.

THOMAS FREDERICK DUGGAN . I am potboy at the Marquis of Granby, New Cross. On Saturday, 18th July, the prisoners came there, and after some time they went across to another public house opposite, the New Cross—Elizabeth sat down and took up a quart pot off a table, put it into a basket, and covered it over with a white cloth—they then went on to the Rose and Crown—Ann sat at the door, and Elizabeth at her side—I left them there.

STEPHEN NORTON . On 18th July I saw three pewter pots taken from the prisoners, near the water works—it is three quarters of a mile from my house to where the pots were picked up.

JAMES HAWKINS . I was going by the water works and saw three pots lying by the silk mills—I picked them up and took them to the Plough—they did not belong there—I took one to Mr. Norton, one to Mr. Thomas, and one to Mr. Hewett.

JOSIAH TURNER . (Policeman, 307). I received information from Duggan, and saw the elder prisoner going down the road with two children, with another girl with a basket—she turned into Wilson Street—I ran to the other end, thinking I might stop her, but lost sight of her—I took the elder prisoner into custody, and charged her with stealing pots—she said that she did not take them—I asked her where she had sent her daughter to—she said she had sent her home to get her father's tea—she took me to Wilson Street and then to Seymour Street, but I could not find any girl or any pots—I detained her, and in about an hour the girl came home with a basket but no pots.

THOMAS FREDERICK DUGGAV . re-examined. I saw the girl come back with a basket—it was the same sort of basket she had put the pots in.

Ann Powsey's Defence. I had my basket full of things for my little children.


17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-905
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

905. ANN POWSEY (36) and ELIZABETH POWSEY (13), were again indicted for stealing 1 metal pot, value 1s., the goods of Thomas Hagger.

FREDERICK DUGGAN . I saw the prisoners go to the Rose, kept by Mr. Hagger—they stopped there about half or three quarters of an hour, but I did not see them do anything—there were three young children with them—the mother carried one in her arms—when they left they went towards Deptford—they had the opportunity of taking a pot without my seeing them—I left them there and went back to my work, and afterwards saw them coming back again with a basket—the daughter went towards the spot where the pots were found, and came back from that direction with an empty basket.

JAMES HAWKINS . I found these three pewter pots (produced) by the silk mills.

THOMAS HAGGER . This pot is mine—I missed it after it was brought back—I know it was there in the morning—it is the only one I have belonging to the late occupier of the house—it has his name on it.

JOSIAH TURNER . (Policeman, 307). I watched the prisoners the daughter was some distance ahead of the mother—I went to Nelson Street with the mother, and after some time the daughter came back with a basket when a few old boots in it.—there was plenty of room in it for the pots—I asked her where she had been, she said to get her father's tea.

ANN POWSEY— GUILTY .*— Confined One Month.


17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-906
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

906. WILLIAM BURROWS (23), , (a soldier,) Stealing 1 pair of boots, value 12s. 6d., the goods of Humphrey Kenrick.

MR. DOYLE. conducted the Prosecution.

HUMPHREY KENRICK . I am father in law to Mr. John Locke, a boot maker, of High Street, Woolwich, I assist in the shop. On 27th July last two artillery men were opposite the shop, the prisoner is one of them—he ran over to the shop, went into a recess before the door, pulled down a pair of boots and ran out—I followed him, and cried "Stop thief!" a man named Hole stopped him, and I sent for a constable.

COURT. Q. Was he drunk? A. No—he might have been drunk previously—lie was not rather drunk—I begged him to give the boots up, he said that they were his boots, and he would not give them up to anybody, and then we took him back to the shop—two police constables took him to the station house, and he would not give them up to them.

JOHN DONELLON . (Policeman, R 178). I took the prisoner—his breath did not smell of drink—he appeared perfectly sober as now—he kept the boots in his possession—I asked him how he came by them, he said that he had bought them; I asked him where, he said that that was his business—the prosecutor said to him, "Give them up, and I will have nothing more to do with you;" but he would not—I had the opportunity of seeing him previously—he was walking about the streets all night, he and two more—he had no money when I searched him—the prosecutor would have let him go if he would have given up the boots.


17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-907
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

Related Material

907. JAMES WAINWRIGHT (30), (a soldier,) Stealing 1 cap, value 4s., the goods of William Potter.

MR. HORRY. for the Prosecution offered no evidence.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-908
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

908. JOHN KITTO (23), Stealing 2 gold watches, and 2 chains, value 30l.; the property of Walter Capper, in his dwelling house.

MR. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.

ELIZABETH RAINBOW . I am cook in the service of Mr. Walter Capper, of Kidbrook Terrace, Blackheath. Between 12 and 1 o'clock, on 23rd July, the prisoner and another man came to the house—the prisoner had a basket—he was knocking at the gate, and I asked him if he came from the village of Blackheath—he said, "Your bell will not ring"—I said, "No, it is broken"—he followed me into the scullery with the other man—he said he was going to repair the gas pipes, and said he should want a candle, and could he see the lady—I said, "Yes," and he followed me into the hall, and saw Mrs. Capper—she said, "Where do you come from?"—he said, "I come from the gas works"—I turned and looked at him, and I said, "I thought you told me you came from the village?"—he said, "So I do, but I am come to look at all the gas pipes, that you may not have any trouble of complaining to the gas company"—I gave him a candle, and he lit all

the gas down stairs; he told me there was a very great deal of gas, and there were more gas burners than any one had in Blackheath; he said I was not there when he was there eighteen months before—I was not—I did not see what was in the basket—he asked me to show him into the bed rooms; I said, "You will see the housemaid up stairs, and she will do it, I am busy"—while the prisoner was trying the burners, the other man did nothing, only what this one told him—he went up stairs, and did not come down till he had finished every room in the house up stairs—he came down into the kitchen and asked me for some grease to grease the handle of the gasometer, and I gave it to him; he said, when he had done he was going to make out a bill, and he must wash his hands first—I gave him some hot water; he asked me what time Mrs. Capper was going to dine, as he wanted to send up the bill—I told him she was at dinner—he inquired for the parlour maid—I said I would take up the bill as she was waiting on Mrs. Capper—I took up the bill—he wrote the bill on the table under the gas meter—Mrs. Capper said, "Has the man done all?"—I said, "Yes, he has"—he charged for six new burners—that is the bill he gave me—(read: "Six new burners, blowing two joints, and easing main cock, 2s. 6d. Paid. John Matthews.")—I asked him to leave the old burners for Mrs. Capper to see—he said, "Look them out, Jack"—Jack was standing by the gas meter with him—I went into the kitchen then, and as soon as I got into the kitchen I heard the prisoner go up stairs; I heard him in the hall say to Mrs. Capper, "I am just going up to see all right, and I will leave the old burners"—I heard the sound of his going up stairs—he came down again in two or three minutes, he then took up his basket, and went out—Jack went with him—I went out to look for the burners—I never could see one—the parlourmaid came into the kitchen—I spoke to her, and she went up into the bed rooms.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLET. Q. Where is Kidbrook Terrace? A. In the Shooter's Hill Road, the high road to Woolwich—Jack was up stain the whole time—he was out of my sight—I saw the prisoner again on that day week, the following Thursday; he was in the custody of the police—the other man was rather taller than the prisoner—perhaps I did say that the man who came with Jack was taller than the other—I do not remember saying so—I said the short one had rather dark hair—I did not say he had a smashed thumb—when the policeman spoke to me about the prisoner I did not express a doubt about him—I said to the prisoner, "You are the man"—I had no doubt about his being the man before I spoke to the policeman—I did take a second look at him, but it was not because I doubted, it was because I wished to go with the housemaid—if the prisoner had been dressed in black instead of a fustian jacket I should have known him again.

CAROLINE FISHER . I am parlour maid in Mr. Capper's service. On Thursday, 23rd July, I saw the prisoner with a pair of steps a-top of the kitchen stairs—I saw him light the gas burners at the top of the house—the first time my mistress saw him was when he came and told her he had come from the Company—I saw my mistress with him in the dining room and in the drawing room—he lighted the gas in the dining room—he gave his address John Matthews, Market Street, or Market Place, Greenwich—after he had done in the dining room he went up stairs—there are two floors above the dining room used as bed rooms—the two men were in the house altogether about an hour and a half—I saw the prisoner several times—I

was with him in the dining room nearly a quarter of an hour—I did not go up stairs with him, I went up stairs to the needle room—I heard the man come down from the top of the house going into my mistress's bed room—he came into the room where I was, and lit the gas and turned it off—after that he went down stairs—I did not see anything more of him—my mistress had a gold watch and chain in her bed room—I had seen them, about half an hour before the man was gone, on the drawers—about a quarter of an hour after he had left, I found it was gone—nobody had been up into the room between the time of my going there after he was gone and his going into the room—my mistress, my young mistress and a little girl were in the house beside myself—I have not seen the watch since—I went up to my young lady's bed room; I found that her watch was gone—I had seen it safe on the mantel piece about the same time as I saw my mistress's watch—I missed it, and a gold locket, and a gold pencil case—I had seen them all about the same time—the value of Mrs. Capper's watch was about 20l.—I noticed that the prisoner's thumb was rather cracked and begrimed with dirt—I knew him when I saw him again.

Cross-examined. Q. You were attending to your work? A. I was up and down stairs attending to my work at the time—I was with him a quarter of an hour in the dining room—I noticed him as he passed by me, and looked at him, but it was not for any particular reason—I saw him standing on a pair of steps in the dining room—I did not say he was a very dark man—I said his complexion was rather dark—I did not say his hair was dark—the policeman asked me what sort of a man he was; I said he was rather a short man, and I thought he was about twenty-five, and his complexion seemed rather dark—I did not mention his thumb to the policeman—I saw him again the Thursday after the 23rd—the policeman brought him to the house—I had occasion to go up stairs for some needlework and materials that were in the different rooms—when I went up before the men left the house it was for some work—I left it in the little room, and I went up for it afterwards—when I went up for the work I saw the watch.

SARAH BRAY . I am housemaid in Mr. Capper's house—I remember the day the watches were stolen—I saw the prisoner—I have no doubt he is the man who came to the house—I saw the watches; it might be an hour before the prisoner came—I did not see them go away.

Cross-examined. Q. Where did you see the prisoner and his companion? A. About the house—several times—I did not take any particular notice of them—I saw them—I was cleaning the stairs.

ELIZA CAPPER . I remember two persons coming to the house on the 23rd July, about the gas—the prisoner is one of them—I had some conversation with him—I saw him in the hall, in the dining room, and in my own bed room—I had a watch and chain—they were safe after breakfast, about 10 o'clock—the watch cost 18l., and the chain was worth from 12l. to 16l.—they were missed from ten minutes to a quarter of an hour after the men left.

Cross-examined. Q. Had you any opportunity of looking at the prisoner? A. Yes, I think I must have been with him an hour.

ELIZA THEODORE CAPPER . I am the daughter of the last witness—I had a watch in my room on the day in question—I saw the prisoner—I missed my watch as soon as the men were gone, at the time mamma missed hers.

DAVID HUNTER . I reside at the gas works at Greenwich—I am superintendent of the Phoenix Gas Company at that station—Mr. Capper's house is lighted by our company—the prisoner was not employed by us to go to Mr. Capper's house to examine the gas—I do not know anything at all of him.

Cross-examined. Q. You have between 200 and 300 people in your employment? A. Yes, at present we have, in consequence of some addition to the works—people do not go to the houses without my—knowledge.

ABRAHAM MANTEL . I live at No. 20, Brookaby Street, Islington—I am a gas fitter in the employment of Mr. Strode, No. 10, St. Martin's Lane—I fixed the gas in Mr. Capper's house in August, 1855—the prisoner was in the same service with me, and went with me to Mr. Capper's house in November of that year—the prisoner has not been in Mr. Strode's service since February, 1856—his duty was the service of an assistant, or labourer, to a gas fitter, to assist in handing the pipes and tools, and so on—he went with me to Mr. Capper's to carry some glasses of a chandelier that I had to fix.

JAMES WILUAM CROUCH . (Policeman, R 118). I took the prisoner into custody on Black friars Bridge—I asked if his name was Kit to—I told him I was a police constable—at the time I was in plain clothes—I said, "You will have to go along with me to Blackheath, on suspicion of stealing two gold watches"—he said he had never been down to Blackheath for seven years, and he should not go—I said, "You had better go to clear your point"—he asked me who was to pay his expenses—I said I would—I took him down to the house, No. 3, Kidbrook Terrace, and he there was identified as the man that had attended to the gas—on our way to the railway station from Blackfriars Bridge he was wearing a white jacket, the one now produced—I asked him if that was the only jacket he had—he said, "Yes"—I asked him where his corduroy jacket was; he said he had not had one for six or seven years—on the next morning, I went to Pitt's Place, Southwark, in consequence of a letter he wrote to his mother; and I there found, in the back room, a basket containing gas fitter's tools—I showed that basket to the servants of Mr. Capper, and they identified it—I also took a jacket, and a cap I took off the boy's head—I took them down to the police Court when the prisoner was arraigned at the bar—by order of the Magistrate the jacket was given to him to put on; which he did, and made no reply—going to the Court again, I told him to take the jacket off—he said it was so cold he should like to have the jacket, it was his jacket.

CAROLINE FISHER . re-examined. That is the basket—he came in with the cap and those things on.

SARAH BRAY . re-examined. I saw the basket—that is just like it.

ELIZABETH RAINBOW . re-examined. That is the basket I saw.

JAMES WILLIAM CROUCH . Cross-examined. I found no money on the prisoner—I found a duplicate relating to a gold ring—I found that his mother was in a very poor and indigent state.


The prisoner was further charged with having been before convicted.

SYLVESTER RUSH . (Police constable). I produce a certificate—(This certified the conviction of John, Kitto, at Marylebone Police Court, in Dec. 1857, of larceny, and that he was sentenced to six month's imprisonment)—I was present on the occasion—he pleaded guilty.— Four Years Penal Servitude.


Before Michael Prendergast, Esq., Q. C.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-909
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

909. JOHN LEAREY (22), Stealing 1 watch, value 2l.; the goods of Henry Parry, from his person.

MR. ORRIDGE. conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY PARRY . I am a printer and stationer, of No. 25, Philip Street, Walworth. On Saturday, 1st Aug., between 5 and 6 o'clock, I was going up Blackman Street, and saw a crowd; I stood on the outside of it, and missed my silver watch and chain.

Cross-examined by MR. PLAIT. Q. Did you feel anybody press against you? A. No, I knew nothing about it till I was told.

ROBERT RANDALL . I am in the employ of Mr. Statham, of Crutched Friars. On Saturday afternoon, 1st Aug., I had a horse and cart in Blackman Street, Borough—a mob had collected, and I saw the prisoner conversing with another man close against the tail of my cart—I saw the prisoner point the prosecutor out to the other man, who put his arm across the prosecutor's chest, and took his watch out of his pocket, not using the hand that was closest to the prosecutor—I saw him give the watch a snap; they then both stooped down together, and the other one handed the prisoner something; I could not distinguish what, but I spoke to the prosecutor—the prisoner and the other man ran up Vine Court, and the prosecutor and I ran after them.

Cross-examined. Q. How far were you from the prosecutor? A. About a yard—there were about 100 people there, looking at a horse which had fallen—I had seen the other man before, and saw the watch in his hand; I also knew the prisoner.

HENRY LAMING . (Policeman). On the Tuesday following, about half past 4 o'clock in the morning, I took the prisoner in Oakley Street, Westminster, and told him the charge; he said that he was innocent.

Cross-examined. Q. Was it at his own house? A. No, he was leaving a public house.

GUILTY .*— Confined Twelve Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-910
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

910. FREDERICK YOUNG (17) was indicted for unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. CLERK. and M. J. O'CONNELL. conducted the Prosecution.

RICHARD LEWIS . I am a grocer, at Walworth. On 27th July the prisoner came to my shop, about 8 o'clock in the morning, for 1d. worth of bread and 1d. worth of butter—he gave me a shilling; I kept it in my hand, and gave him change out of the till—after he had got the change, he did not remain in the shop a second—when he was gone, I looked at the shilling, and discovered it to be a bad one—I placed it in a little side pocket of my coat, where I had no other money, for ten minutes, and then placed it in the pocket of another coat, which I had hanging up in a little room between the shop and the parlour—on Wednesday, the 29th, I saw the prisoner pass my shop in the morning, and in the evening about 6 o'clock he came into my shop, and asked me to serve him 1d. worth of dripping—he gave me a shilling in payment; I kept it in my hand and looked at it, and was going to give him the change; he saw me looking at it, and he said, "You may as well give me a quarter of an ounce of tobacco"—I left the counter, and walked round to get the tobacco, and I put the shilling into the detector—he saw me do it,

and he threw down a good shilling, and said he did not know it was bad—I came round to where he was standing, and told him it was bad, and that I should not let him go till I saw a policeman, and gave him in charge—I told him he had passed one bad shilling off on me on Monday morning; he said he had not—I am sure he is the same person—I gave him into custody, and gave the policeman the two shillings.

ELI BASSETT . (Policeman, P 314). The prisoner was given into my custody—he said he did not know the last shilling was bad, and he denied being the man who passed the other.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin to the Royal Mint. These shillings are both bad.

Prisoners Defence. I was not in the shop on the Monday; I was at Billingsgate Market at 5 o'clock in the morning; I went all round, and was not home till 6 o'clock at night; on the Wednesday I went to the shop, but I did not know the shilling was bad.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-911
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

911. ELIZABETH NUDD (20) was indicted for a like offence: to which she

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-912
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

912. CATHARINE DAVEY (30) was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. CLERK. and M. J. O'CONNELL. conducted the Prosecution.

HARRIET BAKER . I am assistant to Mr. Speechley, who keeps the Swan, in the Dover Road. On 3rd July I saw the prisoner between 9 and 10 o'clock in the evening; she asked for half a pint of 4d. ale—it came to 1d., which she gave me, and she drank the ale, and left—I saw her again the same evening between 10 and 11 o'clock; she asked for a half quartern of gin and some cold water—the price was 2d.; she gave me a shilling, and I gave her change—I put the shilling into the till; there were other shillings and sixpences there—I cannot tell whether the shilling she gave me was good.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. The Swan in the Dover Road is a house of good business? A. Yes—there is a cab stand opposite—we do a great deal of business.

EMMA SPEECHLEY . I was at the bar of my father's house on 3rd July; I saw the prisoner about a quarter past 11 o'clock in the evening—I served her with a half quartern of gin—which was bad; I broke it, and gave her the pieces back—she gave me another shilling, which was also bad—I called my mother, and gave it her, and she fetched my father, and gave him the shilling he called a constable I had bent the shilling before I gave it to my mother I did not see her give it to my father, but I saw it in my father's hand not a minute afterwards, and he gave it to the constable the constable gave it to me to mark it I found the bend in it when I saw it again I saw a bad shilling taken out of the till that night; it was given to the constable.

Cross-examined. Q. You can hardly tell how many shillings are taken over your counter in a day? A. No, I cannot tell whether there may be a thousand—there was no other shilling in the till when the bad one was taken out—there were other shillings taken between 10 and 11 o'clock—we have three tills in our bar—I did not notice whether the prisoner was tipsy till after I had served her; I then thought she was—I noticed she had two shillings in her hand; she gave me one, which I found was bad—she gave me another, and said she did not know the first was

bad—I then found the second was bad—she gave her address somewhere in Church Row—she was a little the worse for liquor.

WILLIAM SPEECHLEY . I am father of the last witness. I keep the Swan, in the Dover Road—my wife called me, and in consequence of what she said I went and asked the prisoner where she lived; she said, "Somewhere a great distance off," and I said to her, "What is your reason for coming here?"—she said she had been quarrelling with her husband, and bad got a drop of drink—the policeman was called, and she was given in charge.

Cross-examined. Q. This woman was a little affected by drink? A. I cannot tell; she cried, and asked me to forgive her—she was not the worse for liquor, to my knowledge.

HENRY TOWERS . (Police sergeant, M 26). I was called to the house on 3rd July; I received these two counterfeit shillings; one of them was marked by Miss Speechley in my presence, and that one is bent—the prisoner said she hoped Mr. Speechley would forgive her, and she would never do it again—she gave her address, No. 3, Church Row, Back Church Lane, Whitechapel.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you go to that address? A. Yes—I did not find her husband there—the prisoner was searched, and no money found on her—I do not know that there are two Church Rows—the prisoner's husband has been speaking to me outside to day—the prisoner had one bottle in a basket—she was a little the worse for drink.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These shillings are both bad.

(The prisoner's husband stated that he lived at No. 3, Church Road, near Limehouse.)


Before Mr. Cammon Serjeant.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-913
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment

Related Material

913. MARY ANN FLANNIGAN (24), JOHANNA FLANNIGAN (48), and MARGARET FLANNIGAN (20), Robbery, with violence, on Margaret Crotley, and stealing a bonnet and shawl, and other articles; value 2l., her property.

MR. RIBTON. conducted the Prosecution.

MARGARET CROTLEY . I am single, and live at No. 45, King Street, Snow Hill On the 29th of July, I was in Gravel Lane, Southwark, about half past 11 o'clock in the evening—I was going along, and these persons attacked me, Margaret and her mother Johanna, came behind me and dragged off my bonnet and shawl, and knocked me down in the street—they attempted to tear my dress off—I trying to keep it on, they tore the sleeve off—they took my petticoat off, and beat and bruised me very much—I laid hold of Margaret, who had held her hand over my mouth to prevent my crying out—I tried to rise, but Johanna knelt on my chest, and prevented me—I thought to detain Margaret till the policeman came, but while holding her, Mary Ann, I believe, or some one like her, I do not swear to her, but a person who resembled her, came up and kicked me, and bit me, and struck me—I was obliged to let Margaret go—they all got away, and took my bonnet and shawl, and petticoat, my latch key, and bedroom key, a pair of gloves, a pocket handkerchief, and 1s. 6d.—I followed them a few steps—they all ran up a yard—I told the policeman the yard that they ran up—there were some flowers in my bonnet.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. What are you? A. A servant out of place—this was about half past 11 o'clock at night—I told the policeman of this about an hour afterwards, I should say about half past 12 o'clock—I had been spending the evening at Mr. Layton's, a hatter, in Lower Marsh—I went there about 9 o'clock, and they asked me to stop

and take supper, which I did—I had one glass of wine and one glass of ale at supper—I was not a little the worse for liquor when I was in Gravel Lane—I lived then at No. 17, Thomas Street, Maze Pond—I was going home—I saw these women again on the following day—I did not know them before—I am able to swear solemnly that Margaret and Johanna were there—there were two more women taken into custody on suspicion of being combined with these women, having received the property lost—I think they were not taken before Margaret and Johanna—I have seen the other women, I do not know them—I knew Glass House Yard the day following.

MR. RIBTON. Q. Have you any doubt that Margaret and Johanna were two of the persons? A. No—Margaret put her hand on my mouth, and Johanna put her knee on my chest—I swear to them, but not to Mary Ann.

DENNIS CANNON . (Policeman, M 177). On 30th July, in the afternoon, the last witness pointed out Margaret and Johanna Flannigan to me, and I took them into custody—I told them they were charged with robbing and assaulting the prosecutrix on the night previous—Johanna said, "Very well," and Margaret rushed up stairs, and I followed her—(when they were pointed out to me, they were standing at their own door in Glass House Yard)—I seized her when she had got midway up the stairs—I brought her down, and left her and Johanna in custody of another officer—I went up stairs and found these artificial flowers, which the prosecutrix firmly believes belong to her, on the mantelpiece in the room up stairs—I found some duplicates which had nothing to do with this charge—the prisoners were taken to the station and locked up.

COURT. Q. Had the prosecutrix described to you any place where she saw the persons go who had robbed her? A. She told me she was assaulted and robbed in Glass House Yard.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you see the prosecutrix on the night when this was said to have happened? A. No; the constable is not here whom she spoke to that night—I saw the prisoners on the 30th, about half past 4 o'clock in the afternoon; they were at the door of the house—the prosecutrix pointed out Johanna as being one of the persons who assaulted her the night before; and she pointed out Margaret also—they were the only women who were standing at the door—Mary Reddington was also taken, but she was discharged—the prosecutrix could not identify her—the names of Hayes and Clark were mentioned—these flowers were on the mantel-piece in. the first floor—I do not know whose room that was—there are only two rooms in the house, one below and one above.

MR. RIBTON. Q. Do you know that the prisoners lived there? A. Yes—there was another woman taken; I believe the prosecutrix said she was concerned, but when she got to the station she could not swear to her—she never expressed the least doubt as to Margaret and Johanna.

EDWARD JOHN KEATS . (Policeman, M 166). I took Mary Ann Flannigan into custody on Saturday, 1st Aug., at No. 3, Glass House Yard, Gravel Lane—I told her she was charged, with others who were in custody, with robbing and assaulting the prosecutrix on the 29th—she denied the charge, but on the way to the station she said, "I know that I am in it"—I cautioned her not to make any statement to me—she said, "I will tell the truth; I held the woman; Mary Hayes had the shawl, and Catherine Clark the bonnet; I had the latch key, and I threw it away in the Blackfriars Road"—she also said that her mother and her sister were not there—on the

day she was committed for trial she took the latch key from her pocket, and said she found it in the lining of her pocket, and she was not aware that it was there—I did not see the prosecutrix on the night of the robbery—I was at the station when she came there, on the following day, between 4 and 5 o'clock—I do not know who was on duty in Gravel Lane on the Wednesday night.

Cross-examined. Q. You did not see her till the Thursday afternoon, between 4 and 5 o'clock? A. No—I believe that was the first information that came to the station—if information had been given to the constable on duty on the Wednesday night, it would have been his duty to report it.

WILLIAM MOORE . (Police inspector, M). I recollect Mary Ann being brought to the station on the Saturday—I read the charge over to her—she said, "I held the woman while these two women" (pointing to Hayes and Clark, who were in the station) "stripped her; Catherine Clark had her bonnet; Mary Hayes had her shawl; I had the latch key in my pocket, but I threw it away on the following day in the Blackfriars Road"—I am not positive, but I believe I was on duty at the station on the night before—I do not know of any information being brought there.

Cross-examined. Q. What time did you go on duty? A. At 10 o'clock on Thursday morning—I was told of the robbery by a stranger who came to the station—I did not see the prosecutrix till the afternoon—I do not know that she had made any complaint—Clark and Hayes were brought down as witnesses against Mary Ann Flannigan—I think they were examined first—they were not charged—we had another woman, named Reddington, in custody, but she was not pointed out by the prosecutrix—I think Hayes, and Clark, and Mary Ann Flannigan, were all brought down together.

COURT. Q. Did Clark and Hayes sign the charge sheet? A. I think they did—they were making the charge against Mary Ann Flannigan, and then Mary Ann made this statement after she had heard the charge against her.

Cross-examined. Q. But Hayes and Clark did not come to make any charge against her? A. I understood they did—they were all three brought down together.

COURT. to EDWARD JOHN KEATS. Q. Did you take the three women down? A. I apprehended Mary Ann Flannigan, and brought down Hayes and Clark as witnesses—it was on their information I went after Mary Ann.

MR. DOYLE. Q. When you took Mary Ann Flannigan, were Hayes and Clark at the station? A. Yes—they were not present when I took Mary Ann—the statement she made to me was on her way to the station, before she saw them.

COURT. Q. Where had you seen Hayes and Clark? A. In Isabella Place—I had received information that they knew something of the robbery, and I went there to them—I had some conversation with them, and I asked them to accompany me to the station, which they did; and after that I went in search of Mary Ann Flannigan—I understood that she had been lodging with Hayes and Clark—Mary Ann Flannigan said at the station, "I went up to Hayes's the same night, about 12 o'clock, where I had been lodging; I went inside, but she would not let me remain there; I took the latch key from my pocket, and a reel of black cotton; I wanted Hayes to throw it out of the window, and she would not; she said she would have nothing to do with it, and she would not let me stop"—Hayes was present when this was said—Hayes said she would not allow her to remain there.

MARGARET CROTLEY . re-examined. These flowers are very similar to what

I had in my bonnet that night—this latch key, I believe, is mine—I cannot swear to it—I had it in my pocket on the night I was robbed—the flowers are very common—I cannot swear these are mine, certainly not.




(Mary Ann Flannigan and Johanna Flannigan were also charged with having been before convicted.)

DANIEL CONGDEN . (Policeman, M 213). I produce a certificate—(Read: "At the Surrey Quarter Sessions, in April, 1854, Mary Ann Harvey and Johanna Flanagan were convicted of larceny, and ordered to be Confined Six Months")—I was present—the prisoners were the persons—they were tried together, for robbing a Lascar seaman.


MARY ANN FLANNIGAN— Four Years Penal Servitude.

JOHANNA FLANNIGAN— Four Years Penal Servitude.

MARGARET FLANNIGAN— Confined Eighteen Months.

Before Mr. Justice Crowder.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-914
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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914. WATKIN EVANS , Feloniously receiving 3 pockets of hops, value 15l., the goods of Walter Parker Mynn and others.

MESSRS. BODKIN. and CHARNOCK. conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS EVANS . I live in Pitt Street, and am a carman in the service of Mr. Wild, a town carman—Coppin's Yard is one of his places of business—on 21st July, I had been out on my master's business—I returned to Coppin's Yard about 1 o'clock, or five minutes after—I know Mr. Mynn, in Coppin's Yard—I was applied to by some person in Coppin's Yard to carry some hops—I had not known him before—I had the cart and horse with me—I went to water the horse, and I was then going to put the nosebag on, and the man came and told me to go to the warehouse—that was where my cart stood, and some person brought out of the door three pockets of hops and chucked them into the cart, and I was directed to take them to Mr. Watkin Evans, in Redcross Street, Borough—I did not see who brought them out—they were chucked in the cart in a moment—they were thrown from the doorway, which was level with the tail of the cart—I went with them down Union Street, and took them to Watkin Evans, in Redcross Street—I do not know the number—it is a shop, I believe—the door was open—Watkin Evans was there when I arrived—I went into the passage and told him I had three pockets of hops—he said, "All right, Tom"—he helped me to unload them—it was then about a quarter or twenty minutes past 1 o'clock—the whole three pockets were left in the passage—I did not notice the marks on the packages—he did not give me anything—his wife came to the door when I was in the cart and gave BW half a pint of beer—the man who hired me paid me a shilling, and that I paid to my master at night when I booked the work—I do not know Ross—I know Grubb—he works in Coppin's Yard—I think for Duncan and Co.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. How long have you been driving a cart? A. About two years—I have been carting hops at times, and all sorts of goods—I have not been to Mr. Mynn's very often—I do not think I had been there before at all—I never loaded out of that warehouse before—I have a delivery order at most places, not always—I got one pocket of hops from Mr. Gable on the 20th, without a written, order—I got an order from the counting house—I have been sent for hops without a written order—Mr. Parry's man, Jem, has sent me—I cannot tell when that was—I do not know his name—I cannot tell the day or the month when I was

sent by him without an order—I am not now in Mr. Wild's employ—I was discharged last Saturday fortnight—I am not at present in any person's employ—I am not aware that there is another man doing my duty at Mr. Wild's—I have been on Mr. Wild's premises since I was discharged—I was in Coppin's Yard this morning—I believe it is occupied by several persons—I was close to Mr. Wild's premises—I could step on his threshold—I have not had fourteen years transportation, it was ten years—I went through Union Street to go to the prisoner's house—it is in Union Street—on going down Union Street from High Street, in the Borough, you have to turn to the left to go down Redcross Street—these pockets weighed about 1 cwt. and a half each—when I got to the prisoner's house, there was no one else present till he came out—he did not say to me, "Yes, I am going to allow them to stop here for a little while"—he did not mention the name of Ross to me—he did not say that he had promised Ross to allow them to stop there a short time—I had no such conversation with him—on my oath he did not ask how long they were to remain there—he did not say to me, "I can't allow them to stop here long, because they will be in my way"—no such conversation passed.

Q. On your oath, did you see the prisoner at all when you got there, was it not his wife? A. I saw him and his wife as well—his wife gave me the money for half a pint of beer—I believe I have said that before at the police Court—I stated it publicly in the Court at Stone's End, in the Borough—I believe what I said was taken down and read over to me—I listened a little while it was being read over—I am no relation to the prisoner.

MR. BODKIN. Q. Have you a delivery note when you take hops? A. Generally it is so—we give a note to the persons we deliver them to at some places; we do not at others—there was no paper of any kind with these—I knew the prisoner before perfectly well—I went down Union Street and turned to the left, and his house is on the right hand side, about fifty yards down.

WILLIAM THOROUGH GOOD . I live at No. 34, Red Cross Street, and am a hop porter. On 21st July about a quarter past 1 o'clock I was at home at dinner—that is my usual time to dine—I know Thomas Evans, one of Mr. Wild's men, I have seen him here to-day—on that day I saw him driving a horse and cart about a quarter past 1 o'clock—he came from Union Street into Red Cross Street—that would be coming from Mr. Mynn's place—he turned to the right out of Union Street; he afterwards turned to the left—I saw three pockets of hops in the cart—the name on the top one was "W. & H. Palmer" some part of the name was sewn in—I could not see the name on the other two which were below, it was downwards—he went in the direction of the prisoner's house—when I last saw the cart it was about fifty yards from the prisoner's house—I did not watch particularly where it went to.

Cross-examined. Q. How ar to the right is your house? A. About forty-eight yards, and the prisoner's about eighty yards to the left—I distinctly saw the cart turn to the right and then to the left.

ABRAHAM COOK . I am warehouseman to Messrs. Mynn, I have charge of their store in Coppin's Yard. On Tuesday, 21st July, there should have been 164 pockets of Gibbs's hops—I believe they are Mid Kent—there were twenty-one pockets of Palmer's East Kent—I left them all right a little before 1 o'clock—it was five minutes before 1 o'clock when I got to the Town Hall—I locked up the store and went to dinner—I returned from my dinner at 2 o'clock, I found the store locked up as I had left it for anything

that I could see—about a quarter past 11 o'clock the next day I set the pockets up in their place and missed two of Gibbs's and one of Palmer's—I communicated it to my master—I then examined the premises—I tried the boards all the way round, and about three boards below the pockets where I was tapping three boards fell down—the adjoining premises are Messrs. Duncan and Jarman's—the boards made a hole sufficiently large for one or two men to go through, it was the width of a doorway—if a man got in that way he could undo the bolt of the door—I had bolted the door and went out at a little door afterwards—anybody who got in at that hole could easily open the great door—when I left to go to dinner I fastened all the doors, I bolted two doors and locked one—I knew the prisoner by working in the yard, that is all—I have lived up the yard for two years—the prisoner has never worked on Mr. Duncan's premises while they were there, but he worked for Mr. Capp, who occupied part of Mr. Duncan's premises before—I cannot say how long ago—it was last season—when Mr. Capp gave it up, Messrs. Duncan and Jarman took it—I have got samples of hops of Palmer's and Gibbs here—I had taken samples out of Palmer's and Gibbs' before—to take a sample we cut the bag down and take the sample out with a pair of clamps—the hops are packed very tight to form a solid substance—when you cut the piece it is like a slice, and that is brought down to the warehouse as a sample—when we sample hops we fill up the hole in the pocket with hops as near the same quality as we can—in sampling these pockets I put in some hops of a different kind—we generally fill up with trimmings, and with others of the same quality as near as we can get them—in sampling these I had not got enough to fill with the trimmings; I had some that had lost their colour which my governor did not know anything at all about, and I put them in—that will enable me to speak to these pockets—I have some samples here—here are two of Gibbs's, and here is one of Palmer's—these were taken out of the pockets before the 21st—they were taken down to the counting house; I had a sample from each pocket, 146 samples—I have samples of the hope that were found at the prisoner's house.

Cross-examined. Q. But the hops found at the prisoner's were not marked either Palmer or Gibbs? A. No—they had been unjacketed, but I took samples of those I supposed to be Palmer's, and those I supposed to be Gibbs's.

MR. CHARNOCK. Q. Have you been long in the trade? A. About two years—these hops are the same sort as the samples I have here—I have no doubt about it—I have looked at the hops found at the prisoner's in the sample hole, and they are the same sort as I filled them up with—I have no doubt at all about it, in all the three pockets—they are the same colour, and I believe them to be the same; the pockets are not in the bags they were in—these are other bags—(The witness here cut a hole in one of the bags and took out some loose hops)—these are of a different description to the bulk of the hops—I know Wild, he is a carman—we have sold none of these lots of hops, neither Palmer's nor Gibbs's—Gibbs's are particularly good ones.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Have you ever seen the prisoner on the premises since? A. Yes—Mr. Mynn has had them these two years—I never knew the prisoner to work at Mr. Duncan's, I saw him there on the morning after this robbery—I do not know that I had ever seen him there before the robbery, I have seen him at Capp's, that is where Mr. Duncan's is now—Mr. Mynn deals in hundreds and thousands of pockets of hops, some of Gibbs's,

some Palmer's, and others—Gibbs's and Palmer's are to a very great extent sold in the market: I know Gibbs's are very largely—I suppose Gibbs's are Mid Kent—Palmer's are East Kent—that I have no doubt about—these hops (Looking at some) are Gibbs's—I know them to be Mid Kent because I have seen them in the pockets—I never see them but in pockets—every pocket is sampled, and I fill up in the way I have told you—I should do so if I had not enough trimmings—no one was with me when I tilled up these holes—these samples I should say, have been drawn for six months—every pocket when it comes in is entered in my master's books—I know that the prisoner deals in hops in a small way—I have never been to his place in Red Cross Street only when we went to these pockets—in the lower part of his house there is a pressing machine, I do not believe there are any scales or weights—it has been called a kitchen—there was no cooking—there might have been if afire place had been put there—I found only the pockets of hops and a press there—I did not go into the upper part—I knew a man who used to work on the premises—they tell me his name is Ross, but I could not swear to him—he worked in Mr. Duncan's yard—the foreman of the warehouse took the samples six months ago.

COURT. Q. You said you took them yourself, and you were the only person who drew the samples, which do you mean? A. Those that were at the station house.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did you take these other samples there yourself? A. No; only those taken from the pockets at the prisoner's house—I was present when these other samples were taken by Edward Edney—he is dead and buried.

WALTER PARKER MYNN . I am a hop merchant in the Borough—I have one partner—the business is carried on in the name of Mynn Brothers, and Company—I have a warehouse in Coppin's Yard—I know a carman named Wild, he used to do our business—Coppin's Yard is a large place, and has stables at the other end, and there are several warehouses and counting houses—Mr. Wild's stables lead out at the other end—there is a thorough—fare for foot passengers—I do not know whether carts can go through—I think they can—carts stand in the open yard—there are several generally there—I had at the time of this robbery a quantity of hops in my ware­ house—Mr. Duncan's warehouse joins mine—I had some Mid Kent hops in the name of Gibbs, and some East Kent hops in the name of Palmer—they had, on the outside of the pockets, the names of Palmer and Gibbs—in the course of trade persons who deliver hops give delivery orders—on the carman taking them, he takes the order and gets it signed by the person to whom he delivers them—I had not sold any of Gibbs's or Palmer's hops this season; not since Oct. 1855—we might have sold a few in Nov. 1855—we purchased them in Oct. 1855—I heard of the stealing of these hops and went up the yard, and saw Mr. Wild's foreman, and made some inquiry—I saw the boards and the hole—there is not the least doubt that that was the way by which my warehouse had been entered—in consequence of what was told me, I went, with an officer, to the prisoner's house, I think about 3 o'clock, on Wednesday, the 22nd—it is a private house—the door was open, I went in—the prisoner came into the passage to me, and I asked him if he had been receiving any hops—he said that he believed some hops had been brought there the day before—I asked him how it was that he had them left there, and who sent them there—he said he was coming to dinner, and he met a man who asked him if he would allow him to leave three pockets of hops in his house—I said, "Of course you

know who the man was"—he said, "No, I do not know him at all"—I said, "You have seen him before, I should think?"—he said, "Well, I might, I do not know that I have seen him before"—I said, "Should you know him if you saw him again?"—he said, "I might, I do not know that I should"—I said, "It is very odd that you should receive hops from a stranger in that way; of course, you know whose cart brought them, and the carman"—he said, "No, I never saw them at all; neither the carman, nor yet the cart, or the hops"—that he was sitting at dinner, and some one said, "Here are some hops come"—they were brought in, and he did not see anything about them—I thought he said they were put in the passage or the yard—that he then went away from dinner, and when he came back in the evening, his wife said that some one had come with a truck and fetched them away about an hour after he had left—I asked him to go with me, and I went up stairs to the bed room, where I found five packages of hops, which had been put in loose—they were not our's—I went into the lower part, the kitchens or cellars—one room opens into another—in one room I found two of these pockets, and in the other room, the door of which was open, the other pocket—I cut down the side of the first two pockets, and said to the policeman, "These are our hops"—they were Gibbs's—I opened the other pocket, and the hops exactly corresponded with Palmers', but they were not in the same packages—if they were our hops the coverings had been changed—they were very nearly the quantity that I had lost—they will all lose a little—they were worth about 15l.—in. changing the covering, it is not necessary to take the hops out—you can rip the covering down the side, and take it off without disturbing the hops—the two pockets of Gibbs's hops are of very superior quality—I have seen the prisoner in that yard at different times—I did not know his name—I do not know Ross—I never heard his name to my knowledge.

Cross-examined. Q. Was Hewlett, the officer, with you when you had this conversation with the prisoner? A. Yes, I heard what Hewlett said to him—I do not know whether Hewlett asked him whether he helped to unload the hops—I believe it was myself—Hewlett might join in with me; I cannot say that he did not.

Q. Do you remember that the prisoner told you that the man who asked him to let the hops remain was named Boss? A. Most distinctly he never mentioned the name—he did not say that the man told him he had bought three pockets cheap, and would he let them come to his place for an hour or so, as he was going to send them in the country that afternoon—he never said that he bought them at all—he said some one would come and take them away—he said nothing about buying—he never said a word to me about the country—he allowed me to go in, and I went all over his house—of course, he gave me every facility to look over his house—when I said the hops were just like mine, he went and fetched an invoice from the other room—he did not offer me a bundle of invoices, only one—it was about three or four pockets of hops, and two ends—he did not offer me other papers, only this one, the invoice and the receipt, which is in the hand of the policeman now—I did not hear anything of a man named Northfield—one of these pockets is marked "Chambers"—there are several persons named Walton, in Kent—Walton's are a very good class of hops—I have been in the hop trade about nine years—there may be a difficulty in distinguishing some hops without seeing them in the pockets—a good judge can tell what class they are—it is very difficult to distinguish them, unless

you see them in the pocket—you cannot tell who grew them, but you can tell the quality, whether brown or light, whether good or bad.

MR. BODKIN. Q. Was the invoice shown to you of Feb., 1857? A. Yes, and this is the receipt—there are none of Palmer's hops in that, nor any of Gibbs's—when hops are brought in in a pocket they are entered in our books, the mark, and the weight.

MR. SLIEGH. to WILLIAM THOROUGHGOOD. Q. Do you know Ross? A. Yes, I know him very well by sight—I have seen him about the hop market.

MR. BODKIN. Q. Have you known him also to be in custody for stealing hops? A. No—I was in the employ of Mr. Gibbons—I was discharged, but not for any impropriety.

JAMESGOOD. I am foreman to Messrs. Croziere, hop merchants. On the morning of 21st July the prisoner, whom I knew, called at our ware­ house; he said be wanted an empty hop pocket—he said, "I bought one of you some time ago, marked Walton; that was a very good one; I should like another like it, of the same mark"—I said, "As to what marks I have got I cannot say; you may go and look at them"—we went into the room, and the first pocket I laid my hand on was one of the mark which he had mentioned—he said, "That will do," and paid me for it, and took it away—I can tell that this pocket (produced) is one that has passed through our house, but this black horse has been stamped on it since—I have seen the other pocket, marked Walton, outside; I believe that is the one that I sold the prisoner before—I have seen the samples taken from the pockets found at the prisoner's house, and compared them with the samples taken on the prosecutor's premises—I have been in the hop trade twenty-one years, and have had great opportunities of looking at hops—these so exactly correspond that I should say they must be the same.

Cross-examined. Q. How long is it since you sold the first pocket? A. It might be six weeks, or two months—Walton may grow 200 pockets, more or less—I have not sold to the prisoner several of Walton's pockets within the last six months, to my knowledge—he is a dealer in hops and in pockets—I would not undertake to say that I have not sold him three or four pockets within the last six months—he never exchanged a pocket in his life—it is not a very difficult matter to identify some parcels of hops when out of the pockets—it would be difficult to identify some, most undoubtedly.

MR. BODKIN. Q. As to these hops, should you feel any difficulty in saying they were the same? A. Not any—these two of Gibbs's in particular; they are very peculiar—the third pocket is of a kind that might be more easily matched in the trade.

EDWARD HEWLEET . (Police sergeant, M 29.) On 22nd July I accompanied Mr. Mynn to the prisoner's house—the prisoner did not mention the name of Ross in the house, but he mentioned the name of Ross or Robinson when he was in ray custody, on the road to the station—Mr. Mynn was not present then, he came to the station afterwards—when I got to the prisoner's house, I saw him in conversation with Mr. Mynn, in the passage—I heard Mr. Mynn ask him if he had not had some hops brought there within the last few days—he said, at first, that he had not—some further conversation passed, which I did not exactly catch—Mr. Mynn turned round to me, and said, "I believe the hops are in the house"—I then asked the prisoner if he had got any hops, or received any hops lately—he said, "Yes, I have got several pockets; I am a hop dealer"—I then said, "Did you receive three pockets of hops on Tuesday?"—he said he did not recollect,

at first, and afterwards he said, "yes, I believe there was some came in yesterday, three pockets," and that they came in during the time that he was at dinner—I said, "Did you purchase them, or did you know the man that sent them?"—he said, "No," he understood they were taken away from his house about an hour after he had left from dinner—he said he did not know the person that brought them—I asked if he knew Evans, the carman—he said, "Yes, Tom Evans. I know him"—I said, "Did you not help him to unload the hops when he brought them I"—he said, "No n—I said, "Then, if he says you did, he is a liar?"—he said, "Yes"—I afterwards assisted Mr. Mynn in searching the house, and found some hops up stairs in the bed room, and three pockets down below; two in one room, and one in the other, which I took possession of—I went with Mr. Mynn and the prisoner to Mr. Mynn's counting house, and then took the prisoner to the station, and as we were going, he said, "As I was going to dinner yesterday, I met a man whom I have known trell for several years, who asked me to allow him to leave the hops are my house; I did so, and the hops were brought while I was at dinner, and I was informed by my wife afterwards that they were fetched away about an hour after I was gone from dinner; that a man fetched them away in a truck"—he said it was a man that he had known a great number of years—I asked him the name, and he said a man of the name of Ross or Robinson—I cannot recollect which, I did not catch it—I know a man of the name of Boss, and I know a man of the name of Grubb—I have known Ross to be in custody on suspicion of stealing hops—I have been using the utmost diligence in tracing out Ross—I have not been able to take him into custody—I was close upon him at one time, and he got out at a back door, and left his coat and his boots behind him.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you with Mr. Mynn the whole time? A. Mr. Mynn went in the passage, and I went in at the door—it is a kind of lodging house—it was while the prisoner was going to the station that he told me about Ross—he did not in the first instance mention Ross or Robinson before I took him to Mr. Mynn's, not in my presence—he said a man that he had known many years—I did not hear him say he had known him by sight—he said a man of the name of Ross or Robinson—the prisoner was very ill; we were obliged to take him to the hospital.

The following Witnesses were called for the Defence.

WILLIAM NEALR . I live in Horse Shoe Alley, Finsbury, and am a sack collector. On 21st July I had occasion to be in Red Cross Street, on business, at a little before 3 o'clock—I met a young man named William Cohen—I knew nothing of the prisoner before this, nothing more than going through the Borough—I knew him by eyesight, but never spoke to him to my knowledge—I get my living by buying sacks—I spoke to Cohen for three or four minutes—after I left him I came a little further; I stood opposite the prisoner's house, and saw two men drive up in a light cart to his door—as soon as they drove up they got out of the cart and went into the house, and I saw them bring out a pocket of hops—they went in again, and brought out another, and they went in again, and brought out another—after they had got the three pockets in the cart, they got into the cart, and drove off towards Union Street—they went in that direction—I could not see whether they turned right or left—I saw nothing more of the cart—I saw about this robbery, in the newspaper, nine or ten days afterwards, and I came over and told Mr. Evans that I saw two men drive up to his house—he did not require me to appear till the present time.

Cross-examined by MR. BODKIN. Q. What did he say? A. He said it was no consequence—when 2 left there was no appointment to come again—I gave my address—he took it down, No. 2, Shoe Alley, Wilson Street, Finsbury—I live there now—I saw the case in the newspaper—he told me the case was under investigation—he told me he did not request me to attend—I was willing to attend if he required me to do so—he said, "There will be no occasion for you to attend"—I heard of it afterwards, two or three weeks back from this time—about a fortnight ago I met the prisoner on London Bridge, merely by accident; it was on the right hand side in going from the Borough—the side the Custom House is—it was between 2 and 3 o'clock—he told me he required my attendance, as I had specified before, and told him, I saw three pockets of hops taken from his place on the 21st July—he said, "I require your attendance at the Central Criminal Court"—he knew me when I met him on the bridge; after I had been to his house he remembered me, and what I had told him—he said, "I did not require your attendance in the first place, but now it is come to this, I require you to attend"—he said that I should attend here on Monday—that was last Monday—I have never been here before—I knew where the Court lay, but I never had anything to do with it—I am not yet paid for my time—I do not know whether he will pay me—I do not require anything, I give it free of expense—I did not say so to him—I did not say I expected to be paid for my loss of time—I give my service voluntarily—I do not expect any remuneration whatever; if he was to offer me a 5l. note I would not accept of it—I am a sack collector, employed by Mr. James Matthews, of James Street, Commercial Road—I collected some about three weeks ago in Wapping—I was not required to attend—it would not answer for me to lose my time, but my business is, at the present time, slack—I have seen Mr. Evans since I met him on the bridge; I have seen him twice at his own house—I saw him last Monday at his own house—I do not know a man named Bailey—I knew a man named Ross—I believe him to be a hop porter—I saw him in the Borough, near the Town Hall—I exchanged two or three words with him about this business—I told him what I saw—he said he knew nothing at all about the hope coming away—I spoke to him, seeing he was in the hop trade; I thought he might know something of the occurrence—this was about a week ago.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Before this matter, you never spoke to the prisoner in your life? A. No—the first I saw was in a newspaper—the prisoner has not made any arrangement for giving me anything—I have been employed by Mr. Matthews for the last ten months—he is a wholesale dealer in sacks—there has never been any charge made against me in my whole life.

DUDLEY RUSH . I am a hop porter. I have been thirteen years in the employ of one gentleman—I have known the prisoner nineteen years—he has been an honest, industrious, hard working man—I employed him when he first came from Wales—I have been in the habit of going to him to assist him in his work twice within twelve months, on 1st June and 16th July—he was a dealer in hops and hop pockets—amongst hop dealers in a small way, it is usual to make up a pocket of the best you can, and sell it to bakers and others—when I went to him on 1st June, there was a man of the name of Bailey there—they were engaged in pocketing hops—they had two pockets which had not the covers on, and they had two covers with the name of Walton to put on—the pocketing of those two pockets was completed that evening before I left—the same two pockets I saw yesterday at the station in the Borough—I have seen the same two pockets

here to-day—I know many hop growers by name, but I do not know the men personally—I have been in the hop trade thirty-five years—no man can identify hops out of the pockets—I worked for Mr. Mynn—I can change hope from one year old to two yean old by my experiments.

COURT. Q. Can you make one year old growth appear like two years old? A. Yes, that is what I am brought up to; I have done it for the richest merchants.

Cross-examined. Q. Is taking off one cover and putting on another called jacketing? A. I call it doing what is right for the best advantage of the merchant—my master does not give me 75l. a year to do nothing—Neale is not an acquaintance of mine; I have spoken to him here to-day—I did not know him before to-day; I have seen him, bat not known him personally—I saw him in Redcross Street about a day back, and he said he was passing and saw three pockets of hops—I saw him for the first time in Redcross Street the day before yesterday, and he told me what he had seen.

CHARLES GRUBB . I am foreman to Messrs. Duncan and Co., and have been so for two years. I have been engaged in the hop business fifteen or sixteen years—it is difficult to identify hops in the bulk, irrespective of pockets or marks—I could swear to the pockets or marks, but I should not like to swear to the hops themselves—I have not seen the prisoner on Mr. Duncan's premises; he has not been on our premises at all, to my knowledge.

Cross-examined. Q. You have a brother, of the name of Grubb? A. Yes—I saw him this morning in the warehouse; be has worked there these two years—I know there was an opening broken through between our warehouse and Mr. Mynn's; how it came there I cannot tell—I saw it after the hops were lost—I cannot say whether a person going into Mr. Mynn's must have gone from our side—a person might have got in from Duncan's, or they might have got into Mynn's; I cannot say—I know a man of the name of Ross; I have seen him up and down the yard—I have seen him with my brother; he has worked with him, but not associated with him—he worked with my brother last Dec. twelvemonth—hops are sent without a delivery note from warehouse to warehouse, but from seller to buyer we do not send the goods without a note—when we sell a parcel of hops, we expect the person who is sent for them to sign a paper for them.

(The prisoner received very good character.)

GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury on account of his character. — Confined Eighteen Months.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-915
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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915. DAVID ROACH (23), Robbery on Robert Cuthbert, and stealing 1 watch, value 2l.; his property.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

ROBERT CUTHBERT . I live at Clapham, and am a lamplighter. On 4th Aug., about a quarter past 12 o'clock at night, I was sitting on a step outside the Plough, at Stockwell—the prisoner came up by himself; he had another man with him, who kept-at a distance—the prisoner took hold of my watch guard, and took my watch out of my pocket—he knocked me down; I got up, and scuffled, and tried to get my watch away from him, and while this scuffling was going on he chucked my watch away—the constable came up after the prisoner threw the watch away—the other man ran away—Dennis Flannigan picked up my watch—I had it again—I had had a drop of drink, but I knew what I was doing.

Prisoner. Q. How was the other man dressed? A. I did not take any notice of him—I did not bleed when I was struck—you took my watch out

of my pocket, and struck me—I was sitting there to pass the time away—I had to wait till half past 2 o'clock to turn the lights out.

DENNIS FLANNIGAN . I live at South Lambeth, and am a plasterer. I was coming past Stockwell Green about a quarter past 12 o'clock that night—I saw the prosecutor, the prisoner, and another man, standing just by the door of the Plough—all I could hear was something about gin—as I came along the road, the watch was thrown about two yards before me—I do not know who threw it—I picked it up—the prosecutor ran to me, and said, "That is my watch"—the other two men were there—I held the watch up, and said, "Does this belong to you?"—they said, "No"—I said to the prosecutor, "Then it must belong to you," and I gave it him—he said to the other men, "It must be one of you has done this"—I said, "Give him in charge"—the prosecutor called, "Police!"—one man ran away—the prisoner stopped till the policeman came up in two or three minutes—the prosecutor said, "I have a great mind to give you in charge for stealing my watch"—the prisoner said, "What do you mean by accusing me of stealing your watch?" and he struck him.

COURT. Q. Did the prosecutor complain that he had been struck before? A. No.

GEORGE KIBBLE . (Policeman, P 168). About a quarter past 12 o'clock that night there was a cry of "Police!"—I went up, and the prosecutor said, "You have robbed me of my watch"—the prosecutor had the watch in his hand—the prisoner was there, and the last witness—I asked the prosecutor who robbed him; he said the prisoner, and the prisoner made an attempt to strike him; I prevented him from doing so—the prosecutor had some blood on his nose, and a bruise on his elbow—he had been drinking—it was a very hot night.

Prisoner. Q. Did I make any resistance? A. No.


17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-916
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

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916. JOHN WITHAM (21), Unlawfully carnally knowing and abusing Matilda Lark, aged 11 years.

MR. THOMPSON. conducted the Prosecution.


17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-917
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

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917. GEORGE FORD (26), Unlawfully having in his possession certain naval stores.

MR. PETERSDORF. conducted the Prosecution.

ABSALOM BIBBECK . (Policeman, M 12.) I was on duty on the morning of 12th Aug. in the neighbourhood of Green Street, Blackfriars Road, and saw the prisoner carrying a bag under his right arm—I asked him what he was carrying—he said, "Copper"—I examined the bag, and found it contained copper bolts and sheathing—I asked how he had got it; he said his mate found it in a bag of bones belonging to his master, that he fetched from Gun and Shot Wharf—he said he was going to take it home—I have had it in my possession ever since.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Where did you meet him? A. In Friar Street, a few minutes after 5 o'clock in the morning—I do not know where he lives—he said his master was Mr. Ray—I found that that was true—he said he had been carting some bones for his master from Gun and Shot Wharf—I found out that that was true—he said he had carted ten sacks, and that they came from Sheerness—I have not ascertained whether that was true, but I heard from the clerk of the wharf that they did come from there—the prisoner went back with me, and told me that his master could clear him—he said that in the presence of his master—he stated to his master that it had been found in bones which he had carted for him, and

his master said he knew nothing about the metal, but it was true that he had been carting bones for him the day before—I do not know that these things came from Sheerness—the prisoner and his master both said that all kind of metal that was found among the bones was the men's perquisite.

MR. PETERSDORF. Q. There were no bones in this bag? A. No—'he said he found it just as I took it, a bag of copper in a bag of bones—I believe his master is here—there are some of these things on which we cannot find the broad arrow, but on the others we can—I observe the mark on this piece—these are Government stores—I have never been in the navy—the weight of the whole is 36 lbs; the value is 11 1/2 d. a pound.

JOHN TUDHOPE . I am a clerk in the Dock Yard at Deptford. I have examined these copper bolts and other articles—I selected a certain quantity out from the others, as not having the mark of the arrow on them—all the others have it—some of the things are parts of nails—they are all such things as are used in the Government Yard—on the bolts and nails I have found the mark of the arrow.

Cross-examined. Q. These are cuttings from pieces of sheathing? A. Yes—the Government would re-manufacture them—I have never known copper or metal to be sold by the Government—these sort of things are not sold by auction—I have never known them to be sold during twenty years that I have been in the Government service, neither at Greenwich, Woolwich, or Deptford—some Government stores are sold by auction, all descriptions of stores except copper and metal—old rope is sold—these kind of things are never sold—these bolts have been used for refitting the ships—they are re-manufactured when they have been once used—all the bolts are old, the sheathing only is new: it has never been on a ship's bottom—it was doubled up when I saw it—I did not polish it up—I wiped the things, and then I discovered the arrow on some of them—they are sometimes doctored a little.

MR. RIBTOIT. called

WILLIAM CLARK . I am in the employment of Mr. Ray. I have been with him seven years altogether—he is a bone merchant, in a large way of business—the prisoner is also in his employment; he has been with him about a year and a half—the day before this matter was found out, we were drawing bones to the railway from our yard—I did not go to the wharf for the bones, but the prisoner did—I saw him bringing home ten sacks of bones—they are large sacks; they might be more thin four feet high—they were tied up; we had to get a knife to undo them—the practice is to shoot them out in the yard—I shot them out—in one of the bags we found this bag of copper; it was tied up, and laid lengthways—I took it out of the bones—I picked it up, and said, "Why, mate, look what I have found"—I have been before the Magistrate—I believe it was in the same bag as it now is—I did not weigh it—the bag of bones weighs 1 cwt. 3 qrs. and some odd pounds—that night I put it into the stable—on the next morning the prisoner was found taking it home—these things are looked on as the perquisites of the men—there is no rule whether it be an ounce or a cwt. that is found—we always take all we can find.

Crass-examined by MR. PETERSDORF. Q. I suppose the whole quantity of bones that arrived was weighed? A. Yes—they were all weighed in the yard—I saw they were being weighed in the presence of the prisoner—the prisoner, or the person who weighs them, renders an account of the weight to Mr. Ray—Mr. Ray was not at home that night—he has other men in his employment—the prisoner put down the quantities in each bag—I do not know what he put down—I have found as much as half a pound of

metal at a time in the bones—I have seen a lot brought by mistake from a marine store shop, but they had it back again—we have all that is found in the bags except bones—I opened the bag, and looked in first—we have had bones from Sheerness before these—we have found copper in other bones—I do not whether these bones came from Sheerness or not—we were to divide the profits—I do not know where the copper came from—there were no marks upon the bag.

GEOEGE RAY . I am a bone merchant, in Green Street, Southwark. The prisoner had been in my service about twelve months; during that time he has borne the character of an honest and respectable man—I had no character with him—we never inquire into the character of the men in our line; it is not the custom—as far as I know, he has borne a good character—I should be willing to take him back again.

Cross-examined. Q. Where did these bones come from? A. From Sheerness, to a person of the name of Wolfe, at Whitechapel—I got them from Griffin's Wharf—that was the order given to my men—Wolfe got them from Sheerness—I believe the name of the consignor is Wolfe—this is the second lot I have had from Sheerness through Mr. Wolfe—if I had not heard about this I should have had a deficiency of the 36 lbs.—I only heard about it after the examination before the Magistrate—I deal in nothing but bones and fat—I first heard of this affair on the morning after it happened, when the officer brought the prisoner back to me.

MR. RJBTON. Q. Was the prisoner going out early that morning? A. Yes—the men usually begin work about 6 o'clock, but I told them to be there early that morning—I gave them that order—I often do so three or four times a week, when we want to begin work early—he lives in Green Street, not far from where I live—he was taken near his own house—when metal is found, I deduct it if there is any quantity, but I never had such a thing happen before—I have paid for these bones since, but short the 36 lbs. (the weight of the metal)—it is not unusual for deductions to be made if there is any quantity—we send it back, we will not have it, only if there is any copper the men would take care to have it out—I never saw the broad arrow before in my life.

GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy. — Confined Two Months.

Before Mr. Baron Martin and a Jury (Eighth) of half foreigners.

17th August 1857
Reference Numbert18570817-918
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

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918. ANTONIO DE SALVI (29), was indicted for feloniously stabbing, cutting, and wounding Robert Henderson Robertson, with intent to murder him,—2nd COUNT., with intent to do grievous bodily harm.

MESSRS. BODKIN. and SLEIGH. conducted the Prosecution.

RICHARD THOMPSON . I am a solicitor, practising at No. 3, Finsbury Chambers. I had been acting as solicitor for the prisoner—on Wednesday, 8th July, I accompanied him to the Queen's Bench prison, for the purpose of seeing Mr. Robertson, a creditor, lying there—I was also accompanied by a gentleman of the name of Gower—this was nearly, or about 2 o'clock in the afternoon—some conversation took place between me and Mr. Robertson, and the prisoner, and Mr. Gower—Mr. Robertson came to his room and took a seat in an arm chair—the chair was with its back to the window—I had a seat on his left hand side—the prisoner was standing—he was standing at the time, it might be about five feet from Mr. Robertson; he was in front of him, facing him—Mr. Gower was some distance behind, still further from Mr. Robertson—after the conversation had proceeded some minutes, De Salvi drew nearer to Robertson, and it appeared to me that he

struck him with his fist—previous to that occurring, De Salvi was addressing Robertson on the subject of the debt which Robertson owed him—De Salvi said he owed the money, and the other denied it—there was an angry feeling between the prisoner and Robertson as to the debt—as he struck, the prisoner's left hand was on Robertson's shoulder, Mr. Robertson was seated at the time, and the prisoner struck with his right hand—he appeared to strike Mr. Robertson four or five times—he struck him on his right side, on his cheek, temple, and about the shoulder—Mr. Robertson was seated in a chair when the prisoner first struck him; he then went forward about four feet, and then he went to the ground—it was very quick, and I immediately jumped up, and De Salvi left—I immediately ran to the assistance of Mr. Robertson—after the first blow was struck, Mr. Robertson went forward, and he had to sit down on the ground.

COURT. Q. Did he fall or sit down? A. He eat down on the ground.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did that change from the chair to the ground appear to you to be the result of the blows? A. I thought it was from the hand being on his shoulder, and Mr. Robertson trying to protect himself, stepped forward; he must have stepped forward about four feet—he fell on the ground, and I saw blood flowing from him, left and right—on the blows being struck, De Salvi went out of the room—Mr. Grower went out first—I went to the assistance of Mr. Robertson—I supported him till other persons came in and rendered him assistance.

Cross-examined by MR. EDWIN JAMES, Q. C. (with MR. SERJEANT PARRY. and MR. M'MAHON.) Q. How long have you been attorney for the prisoner? A. I think it was in June or July, 1856, when I first did business with the prisoner—I understand that he has been a valet in noblemen's families, and that he had saved a little money'—he brought me some bills to sue. Robertson upon; two bills of 1002. each, drawn by Robertson, and another bill for 200l.; I have them here—Robertson was his debtor to the amount of 200l.—it was in consequence of Mr. Robertson writing to me that I went to the Queen's Bench prison—Mr. Robertson had not sent for the prisoner, I sent for him afterwards—I went first and saw Mr. Robertson, on 3rd July; he desired me to make an arrangement, if I could, with De Salvi and Gower—the origin of De Salvi's going on this occasion was that I sent for him to £o with me—my clerk saw him, and brought him to my office—De Salvi got me to go to Mr. Grower's place of business, and then De Salvi, myself, and Gower went to the Queen's Bench prison—Gower was also a detaining creditor of Robertson—I was not attorney for Grower—De Salvi requested me to go to Mr. Grower's—I told him that unless I could settle with both of them it would be no use—they were both detaining creditors—I went with De Salvi and Gower—after there had been some conversation between Mr. Gower and Mr. Robertson, Mr. Robertson said to Mr. Grower, "My dear Sir, explain to him that I do not owe the debt of 200l.," that was to the prisoner—I do not remember whether he said he had never seen De Salvi—I think he stated he never before saw Mr. Gower—he said he did not owe De Salvi the 200l.—he said, "You won't say that?" and then words arose, and he said, "You must go to Mr. Brown for it; Mr. Brown has your money, and not me"—then some altercation arose between them—that was before the blows were struck—I saw that they were not likely to come to a settlement, and I touched Mr. Robertson, and said, "Make them an offer"—I understood that De Salvi had lost about 900l. of what he had saved in service—De Salvi said to Robertson, "I let you have the money, and I Lave nothing to do with looking after Mr. Brown; you had

my money"—Robertson denied it from beginning to end—De Salvi was greatly irritated at it—I did not observe whether when he struck him he had his gloves on.

CHARLES EDWARD WILDE . I was, at the time of this transaction, a prisoner in the Queen's Bench prison. On the day this happened, about 2 o'clock, I saw the prisoner in company with Mr. Thompson and Mr. Gower—I saw them go up stairs towards Mr. Robertson's room—about six or seven minutes after that I heard a scuffle in Mr. Robertson's room—after hearing the scuffle I saw the prisoner and Mr. Gower come out of Robertson's room—De Salvi came out first, without his hat—I believe they both went along the corridor leading to the stairs—I went to the door of Mr. Robertson's room, opened it, and went in—I saw Mr. Thompson with his hand on his shoulder—I found Mr. Robertson bleeding profusely—I then went from the room, in the direction that I had seen De Salvi and Gower take when they came out of the room—as I returned to Mr. Robertson's room, before I arrived at the room, within about five feet of the door, I found a knife lying close to the wall—it was not in the same state that it is now—there was blood upon it—it was open, and broken—with the exception of the blood being wiped off, it was in the same state as it is now, as far as I can see—I went down stairs, instead of going to Mr. Robertson's room, and saw De Salvi and Mr. Grower surrounded by some inmates of the prison—I addressed De Salvi, and said, "Your name is Salvi; you are the assassin"—he did not make any answer; he started back involuntarily on my mentioning his name—I delivered the knife to Dennis, one of the warders.

CHARLES ROSS MANSON . I was in the Queen's Bench prison about the latter end of June. I remember about that time seeing the prisoner talking to Mr. Robertson—he spoke of a debt due to him by Mr. Robertson, a bill of 200l.—he mentioned that if a satisfactory proposal was not made to him for the payment of it, that he would have his life—on that I called De Salvi's attention particularly to what he had stated—I told him that that was a very serious expression; that I should take particular notice of him, and that I would not leave the room while he was there, unless I was requested by Mr. Robertson to do so—I waited until De Salvi went away—on Wednesday, 8th July, in the afternoon, I heard a cry of "Murder!"—I was in my own apartment at that time; my door happened to be open—my apartment is not on the same floor as Mr. Robertson's—it is the passage below—on hearing that cry, I went out of my room into the corridor—I did not see anything of the prisoner on the stairs—I saw several persons running down the stairs, and I followed them—I saw the prisoner in the passage below, leading into the yard, without a hat—there seemed to be several persons round him—I immediately recognized him to be the person that had used the threat in the room previously, and laid hold of him, and asked him if he did not recollect me—he said, no, he did not—"Then," said I, "I recollect you very well, and I shall not allow you to leave my grasp until you are handed over to an officer"—I do not recollect that I had any more conversation with him.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRT. Q. As to this conversation that you say took place in June, what were the exact words that you say the prisoner used; were these the words, "Unless you make a satisfactory proposal, I will have your life"? A. "Unless you make a satisfactory proposal for the payment of my claim and Mr. Grower's, who is associated with me, I will, "I cannot recollect whether it was "take your life," or "have your life," it was one or the other—it was, "Unless you make a satisfactory

proposal to pay my debt and Mr. Gower's, I shall have your life"—I do not recollect that I heard Mr. Robertson say anything to that—he was very much intimidated at the time, he came into the room, and asked me to remain there, and he continued in that feeling—I dare say the interview had lasted about ten minutes before De Salvi said he would take Robertson's life unless he paid his and Gower's debt, and it continued after that, I dare say, for ten minutes more—they did not shake hands at leaving—there was a good deal said about the opposition offered to Mr. Robertson's proceedings in Scotland—he had applied to the Court in Scotland to be relieved of his debts—I suppose he had failed; I cannot speak to that; it was mentioned at the time—in talking of the proceedings in Scotland, I recollect De Salvi saying that he and Mr. Gower were the parties that had interrupted his discharge through the Scotch Court, and that they would continue their opposition until such time as he made a satisfactory proposal—I never sent for De Salvi to come to Mr. Robertson—I have heard the name of Broad-bent, but I do not know a person of that name—I do not know of Mr. Robertson's writing a letter to De Salvi, nor did I see one posted—I was not in the habit of posting letters for him—I was rather intimate with him, but he had the same facilities of posting letters as I had, I was not subservient to him in any way—I have never been up under the Insolvent Act—I have not applied to the Court at all.

MR. BODKIN. Q. How came you to be with Mr. Robertson on the day in June that this conversation took place? were you there by accident, or had you been requested to be there? A. Partly by accident; I was in the habit of communicating with him, he calling on me, and I on him; we happened to be casually together at the time—I never recollect seeing De Salvi before this—he was quite a stranger to me, and Mr. Gower also; I never saw Mr. Gower until I saw him on the occasion of the accident occurring.

WILLIAM BELL . I was in the Queen's Bench prison on 8th July—I was in the passage outside the door of the room that was occupied by Mr. Robertson—I heard some loud voices in the room, that attracted my attention—I saw De Salvi coming out of the room, followed by Mr. Gower—they ran along the passage as fast as they could—Mr. Gower turned at the top of the staircase—there is a small passage which leads into a yard occupied by Mr. Wilde—De Salvi ran down stairs—when Mr. Gower left the room, as be came to the door, he said, "Oh!" and shuddered, as if he was horror-struck—I ran down stairs to the gate, and gave notice of this matter, and as I returned along the passage, I saw Mr. Gower first, and stopped him—I saw De Salvi immediately afterwards; I said, "You cannot go; you were one of the parties in this matter"—he said, "What? what is it? what do you mean?"—I afterwards went up to Mr. Robertson, and rendered what assistance I could.

CHARLES COLWELL . I am chief turnkey in the Queen's Bench prison. On the day this matter happened I went out into the yard at the bottom of the stairs—I saw De Salvi, surrounded by a great many persons, chiefly the inmates of the prison—the only other person, who was not a prisoner, that I observed in the crowd, was Mr. Gower—I heard many voices at once saying, "That is him! he did it! he did it!"—I said to De Salvi, "You hear this; you must go with me"—I brought him out, and placed him in a room adjoining the lower lobby—I then went to Mr. Robertson—he told me that De Salvi had done it, and that he was instigated to the act by Mr. Gower—after seeing Mr. Robertson, I returned to the room where I had left De Salvi—he said, "I did it; Mr. Gower had nothing to do with it"—he made

an effort to speak to Mr. Gower, and Mr. Gower said several times, "Don't speak to me, you villain"—I received this knife from a person named Dennis, and have had it in my custody ever since—I was present when Mr. Coomb came to the prison to take Mr. Robertson's deposition, and was present when it was taken—what he said was read over after it was taken down—I saw him affix a mark to it, and saw Mr. Coomb affix his signature to it—I know Mr. Coomb's signature—this is it (looking at it)—the prisoner was present at the time.

Cross-examined by MR. JAMES. Q. Do you remember being in Mr. Robertson's presence after Manson had been examined at the police court? A. Yes—Mr. Robertson was very anxious to know what evidence had been given by Manson—I told him that he had stated that he was present at a meeting, I believe, in June, when De Salvi had threatened to take his (Mr. Robertson's) life, using these words "If you do not pay me, I am a ruined man, and I will take your life"—on my saying that, Mr. Robertson said that De Salvi never had threatened his life to his face—he said that distinctly twice.

JOHN WILCOX WAKEM . I am surgeon of the Queen's Bench prison. I was not there when this occurred—I went about half an hour afterwards—I saw Mr. Robertson there—I found him suffering from several injuries—I there were four wounds, one on the side of the face, another on the temple, one over the collar bone, and another in the nape of the neck, about opposite the fourth vertebrae—the most dangerous wound was the one by the nape of the neck—the one in the face had penetrated through the cheek—he is now in a very dangerous state—paralysis has supervened; on one side total, and partly on the other—the wounds could have been inflicted by such an instrument as this—in my opinion the other portion of this blade remains in Mr. Robertson's body, in the wound in the nape of the neck—he is quite unfit to come here to give evidence—he is wholly unable to travel.

The deposition of Robert Henderson Robertson was here read as follow: "I live at No. 26, Berkeley Square. I am a gentleman—I know the two prisoners—I am detained at the Queen's Bench Prison at the suit of De Salvi—about 2 o'clock yesterday the two prisoners and Mr. Thompson, a solicitor, came to me at the prison—I was in conversation with De Salvi when he drew out a dagger in his right hand, and he struck me with it in the side of the face while I sat on the chair—he struck me again in the face, and I fell on the ground—I had a struggle with him then, and he struck me three times with the same instrument on the neck and back—I am now suffering from the effect of the blows—I never met Gower till yesterday—I had seen him before, at his place of business—Gower did not strike me—after De Salvi had struck me twice, Gower said, 'Give it the villain,' and then De Salvi struck me with the weapon three times—before Gower used that expression, he distinctly saw that De Salvi struck me with an instrument, and blood was flowing—Gower is one of my detaining creditors. Robert Henderson Robertson, his x mark."—Robert Henderson Robertson, on his oath, further saith: "Previous to the day in question, the prisoner De Salvi visited me on several occasions—he never came with any other person except upon one occasion, and that was the last time—he has threatened me several times—on the last occasion when he called, I think it was about the end of June, he stated that Gower and he would be the only difficult creditors I should have to deal with, and I should regret it if I did not make terms with them—he said if I did not make terms with them, they would have their revenge, or words to that effect—he said he was

not to be trifled with—in consequence of what De Salvi said, I communicated with other persons—in consequence of what De Salvi said, I did apprehend personal violence from him—at the end of June, or beginning of July, De Salvi came, and Mr. Manson, a prisoner was present, and De Salvi then said I should regret it if I did not make terms—it was from De Salvi's general conduct and language that I apprehended bodily harm—when De Salvi, Gower, and Mr. Thompson came, I asked Gower to sit down—he said, 'I will not sit down with such a villain'—I am positive those were the exact words—it was about five or six minutes after they came into the room before the first blow was struck—De Salvi and Gower were standing close to each other, and before any, blow was struck Gower pat his hand on De Salvi's shoulder, and said to him, 'As long as I have a sovereign in my pocket, I will not desert you'—Gower said I should find them ugly customers, and that they, would pull together—when the first blow was struck, Gower was close to De Salvi, with his left arm on the mantelpiece—the expression made use of by Gower, 'Give it to the villain,' was while I was in the chair, and before I was on the ground—I think I was struck three times on the ground, and Gower did not leave whilst the blows were given—I should think it was not more than two minutes from the first to the last blow—I had a straggle with De Salvi, by putting my arm out to prevent his striking me—Gower did not interfere—after the first blow way struck, I cried out 'Murder!' several times, directly I received the first blow, and continued calling out—Gower heard me, and did not interfere—after I called out 'Murder!' Gower said, 'Give it the villain.'—Robert Henderson Robertson, his x mark."

(The Right Hon. Earl Granville, Lord Hardings, the Rev. Edward Henry Emilius Goddard, Vicar of Erthant Richard Buckner, Esq., and John Leslie., Esq., deposed to the prisoner's good character.)

GUILTY. on the Second Count.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury, on account of the great provocation he received by the loss of his money, and on account of this very excellent character. — Fifteen Years Penal Servitude.


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