Old Bailey Proceedings.
15th September 1856
Reference Number: t18560915

ActionsCite this text | Print-friendly version | Report an error
Old Bailey Proceedings front matter.
15th September 1856
Reference Numberf18560915

Related Material



A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters.


OLD COURT.—Monday September 15th, 1856.


Before Mr. Recorder and the First Jury.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-846
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

846. ALFRED RICHARD BENNETT , was indicted for feloniously being at large before the expiration of his sentence: to which he


15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-847
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

847. ALFRED RICHARD BENNETT was again indicted for stealing a writing desk, value 5s.; the goods of Ellen Gooding.

SARAH ANN GODDARD . I am sixteen years old. I am in the service of Mr. Nicholas Dawson, a linendraper, of No. 17, Crisp-street, Poplar—the prisoner was in his service as an apprentice, in 1854—he then left, and was in prison—on Sunday evening, 17th Aug. last, I saw him at my master's door, about half past 6 o'clock; I opened the door to him—he said, "Is Mrs. Dawson in?"—I did not answer; my fellow servant, Mary Phillips, came up, and answered him—he said he was the brother of Mrs. Dawson—I let him in—Mr. and Mrs. Dawson were at chapel—the prisoner came into the sitting room, kissed the child, and told him he was his uncle—(he is not any relation to Mr. and Mrs. Dawson)—he said he had come from the country—Phillips said he had come quite unexpectedly—he said no, he had written to Mrs. Dawson on Saturday evening—she said Mrs. Dawson could not get the letter until Monday morning—the prisoner then said he would come in and go to bed—I went up stairs after my bonnet, leaving him in the sitting room—I went into a room on the second floor to get my bonnet—I saw the prisoner run up the stairs to the third floor—I then recognized him, and ran down stairs, and cried out "Police!" and said that it was Alfred—I did not recognize him at first—while I was at the door, the prisoner came down; he came as far as the corner of the counter in the

shop, and said to Phillips, "Miss, Miss Gooding sent me for the writing desk"—he had the writing desk in his hand—it had been on the dressing table in Miss Gooding's bed room, on the second floor—he must have passed that room in coming down from the third floor—I had seen the desk in the room when I went to fetch my bonnet—I did not recognize him at first, because he was dressed much more shabbily than when he was there before—I am sure he is the person—this is the desk—Phillips brought it to me afterwards—she is not here—she is still in Mr. Dawson's service; she was before the Magistrate.

Prisoner. If I had come and represented myself to be Mr. Dawson's brother, is it likely she would have let me in? and she the very girl that was there when I was convicted; it does not stand to reason that I should have gone and given myself up as an escaped convict, because I could not get an honest living, if I had made up my mind to get it in a dishonest way; I have tried every means; I was in the militia, and when I was discharged my friends would not help me, and I did not know what to do, and went and gave myself up; I bore an exemplary character while I was in prison, and had a good character when I came out; I beg your lordship will give me such a sentence as will send me out of the country, where I may be able to do myself some good.

EDWIN HILL (City policeman, 331). The prisoner gave himself up to me at the station on Monday, 18th Aug., as an escaped convict—I heard of this robbery about two hours afterwards.

EDWARD WOODWARD . On the evening of 17th Aug., about 25 minutes before 7 o'clock, I was sitting at my own door, No. 14, William-street, East India-road, Poplar; that is about 500 yards from Mr. Dawson's—I heard a hallooing and hooting at the end of the street, and saw the prisoner come running, with a box in his hand, and as he passed he dropped it on my toes—I made an attempt to stop him, and caught hold of his collar, but he slung himself out of my hand, and ran off, calling out, "Stop thief! it is not me, governor."

Prisoner. Q. What do you know me by? A. By your features—I had time enough to see your features—I was not at the police court—I was at Guildhall, and was examined—I was sworn, it was after you had stood down—I picked up the box, and gave it to one of the servants, who came up in a fright, and I saw her go back with it to Mr. Dawson's house.


(The prisoner was further charged with having been before convicted.)

EDWIN HILL re-examined. I produce a certificate—(This certified the conviction of Alfred Richard Bennett, in Oct., 1854:, at Clerkenwell, of stealing 871. of Nicholas Dawson, his master, in his dwelling house; and that he was sentenced to six years penal servitude)—I was not present at the trial.

NICHOLAS DAWSON . I was the prisoner's master—I was present at his trial—he is the person.

GUILTY. Aged 18.— Four Tears Penal Servitude.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-848
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

848. GEORGE JONES , stealing 1 watch and chain, value 5l.; the goods of Oliver Charles Hess, from his person.

OLIVER CHARLES HESS . I am clerk to Croskey and Co., ship brokers, Gracechurch-street. About 6 o'clock in the evening of 29th Aug., I was standing in Crutched-friars, looking at two or three men who were putting up a crane at a warehouse—I was speaking to a man on my right hand side, a stranger; after I had done speaking to him, I turned my head round, and

found my watch in the prisoner's hand—I turned round partly to look at the crane again, and partly feeling my waistcoat pocket a little lighter than usual, the prisoner was standing on my left hand side; the watch was taken from my left hand waistcoat pocket—I took the watch from him, and gave him into custody—I called a policeman, and held him till the policeman came—I did not hear what he said to the officer—there was an Albert chain attached to the watch—it was hooked into the button hole of my waistcoat—this is the watch (produced)—it is silver, the chain is gold—the chain was not broken, the watch was in the prisoner's, hand, and the chain still hooked in my waistcoat; it was not separated—the chain remained in my waistcoat, and the watch was in his hand, attached to the chain—I felt no pull, only my pocket lighten; the watch is rather heavy, and I missed it.

Prisoner. Q. Where was I standing? A. On my left hand side; I happened to turn my head, and saw the watch in your hand—I did not say anything—you did not move at all, or try to get away—I took you by the collar and called the police, and told him the circumstance—you did not say anything then that I heard.

DANIEL BUCKLEY (City policeman, 582). I was called to Crutched-friar and saw the prisoner standing there; the prosecutor had hold of him by the collar, and gave him into my custody for stealing his watch and chain—I asked the prisoner what he had to say—he made no reply—he was searched, nothing was found on him.

JOHN SUMNER . I am an errand boy, and reside at No. 1, Red Lion-court, Minories. On the evening of 29th Aug., I was in Crutched-friars, and saw Mr. Hess standing there, and the prisoner near him—I am sure he is the man—he had a watch in his hand like this—I saw Mr. Hess take it from him.

Prisoner. Q. On which side of the prosecutor was I standing? A. On the right hand side—I was standing close against you looking up at the crane—you stood between me and Mr. Hess—to the best of my belief you were on Mr. Hose's right hand side, I would not be quite positive.

Prisoners Defence. I am charged with stealing a watch and chain; the prosecutor says I had the watch in my hand, and the chain was in his button hole; how could I have the means of taking it away; I did not have it in my possession; I am guilty of attempting to steal it, but I am not guilty of stealing it.

(The RECORDER was of opinion that the property toot not to separated from the prosecutor's possession as to constitute a larceny; but under 14 and 15 Vict. c. 100,the Jury might find the prisoner guilty of the attempt to steal it, if the evidence warranted them in so doing; and as the prisoner had stated in their hearing that he did intend to steal it, that would probably be the correct verdict to find)

GUILTY of the attempt to steal. Aged 20.— Confined Twelve Months.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-849
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

849. GEORGE WEBB , feloniously forging and uttering a request for the delivery of a book, with intent to defraud.

MR. POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

EDWARD GRAMMAR . I am sixteen years old; I live at No. 4, Seymour-street, Euston-square street, Euston-square. On 30th Aug., near 2 o'clock, I was in Holborn, and saw the prisoner—he asked me if I knew the London and Westminster Bank—I said, "Yes "—there is a branch in Holborn—he gave me this piece of paper—I was to get a book, and he would give me a shilling if I got it—I was to bring the book to him—I went to the bank—I had some

conversation with the persons there, and they gave me this green book, and directed me to take it to the prisoner—I took it to him, and delivered it into his hands; he looked at it, and said he thought it was not the right one—while I was talking to him, James Thomas, the porter of the bank came up, he had followed me from the bank—he asked the prisoner to go back to the bank—he made no answer—he went back with him towards the bank—the porter told me to call a policeman, which I did, and he was taken into custody—the porter said that in the prisoner's hearing—he had hold of him by the collar or shoulder; he walked with him.

Prisoner. I never had possession of the book; I walked back with the porter without being collared. Witness. The porter touched him on the shoulder, and said the manager wanted him—he kept hold of his collar, or his shoulder, till the policeman came.

JOSEPH WOOD . I am one of the cashiers of the London and Westminster branch Bank in Holborn. On 30th Aug. this note was given to me by the last witness—it struck me that it was not Mr. Wright's usual writing—he was taken to the manager, who gave him this green book—I did not see it given to him—this note is signed, "J. Wright"—we have no customer of that name—we have a customer of the name of J. L. Wright—this is certainly not his writing; it is something similar to it.

JAMES THOMAS . I am porter at the bank, 214, Holborn. On 30th Aug. I saw this green book given to the lad Grammar—I was directed to follow him—I did so, and I saw him give the book to the prisoner, in Holborn—I then went up to the prisoner, and asked him if he had sent the boy for the book—he said, "Yes"—I immediately took the book out of his hands, and said, "The manager wishes to speak to you"—he made no observation, but walked back with me about fifty yards; he then made a sudden stop, and turned round as if to go—I laid hold of him by the arm—a constable came up, and I gave him into custody—I had not put my hand on him before that.

JOHN LAMP WRIGHT . I am a surveyor, residing at No. 1, King's-road, Bedford-row. I keep an account at the London and Westminster Bank in Holborn—this paper is not in my handwriting—I usually signed my name, J. L. Wright"—this is after the character of my writing—I did not authorize anybody to write it—in our correspondence we sign "J. Wright"—I have, no knowledge whatever of the prisoner—I never saw him to my knowledge—I am not aware of any circumstances under which he could have seen my signature—no attempt has ever been made to defraud me by any person—the paper bears my correct address at the top of it.

HENEY ATTWOOD (policeman, F 152). The prisoner was given into my custody, in Holborn, on 30th Aug.—I took him to the bank, and there searched him—I found on him a book, containing various bets, also cheques for different grand stands of separate race courses, and a note of the Bank of Elegance—I found nothing relating to this transaction.

(The prisoners statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows: "I received the note from a gentleman, who asked me to send it to the bank, and I gave the written order to the lad; I have no lodging in London.")

JOSEPH WOOD re-examined. The book I gave was a mere pass book—the pass book would contain the old loose cheques, bearing the party's signature—it would not contain any blank forms of cheques.

Prisoners Defence. I submit there has been no forgery committed; Mr. Wright says he signs his name "J. L. Wright," and the note is signed "J. Wright;" therefore, that cannot be a forgery on Mr. Wright at all;

and, in the next place, I was not aware that it was a forgery; a gentleman in the street gave it me, and when I was with the porter I stopped to turn round to look for the gentleman I had received the note of, as I found I had to go to the bank; I made no attempt to run away; I was not aware that had done anything wrong.

(The RECORDER, in leaving the case to the Jury, said they must be satisfied that the prisoner intended to defraud some person; a mere intent to deceives would not be sufficient; it must be done lucri causa; he did not coincide with the decision in Reg. v. Nash, and would reserve the point if it became necessary.)

GUILTY of Uttering. Aged 30.— Five Years Penal Servitude.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-850
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

850. ROBERT DENNINGTON FORD and ALLISTER M'DOUGALL , burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of Henry Cox, at St. Giles's-in-the-Fields, with intent to steal: having both been before convicted: to which



Six Years Penal Servitude

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-851
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

851. JOHN SMITH , stealing 1 printed book, value 6s.; the goods of John Henry Jackson and others: having been before convicted: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 50.— Confined Twelve Months.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-852
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

852. JESSE BARNETT , stealing 184 yards of flannel, value 5l. 10s.; the goods of John Kynaston and others.

MR. METCALVE conducted the Prosecution.

HUGH JONES . I am a porter, in the employment of John Kynaston, a warehouseman, of No. 4, Graham-street On 25th Aug., about 9 o'clock in the morning, I saw the prisoner coming out of the warehouse with two pieces of flannel—he was a stranger to me—I followed him, and took hold of him in Milk-street—when he saw me he dropped the flannel and ran away—this is it, it belongs to my employers—the prisoner was brought back directly afterwards by a policeman.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Were you in the warehouse when you saw the man going out with the flannel? A. Yes, about the middle of it—it is considerably deeper than this Court—it was his back that I saw, not his face—I had to turn a corner before I came up with him, and lost sight of him just for a minute.

MR. METCALFE. Q. But when you came up with him, had he still the flannel? A. Yes, and dropped it—he had got more than twenty yards upmilk-street; I have no doubt that he is the name man—I saw his face when I stopped him—it was daylight, 9 o'clock in the morning.

WILLIAM TURNER (City policeman, 409). I was in Castle-court, Lawrence-lane, heard a cry of "Stop thief!" and the prisoner ran up against me, coming out of Milk-street, and knocked me down—I took him back to the warehouse—the flannel was taken back also—it was not half way up Milk-street, but about fifty yards up—I afterwards met Jones, who said in the prisoner's presence, "That is the man who took the flannel"—the prisoner said nothing.

Cross-examined. Q. Did not he tell you that some person asked him to hold it for him? A. No; he said, "What are you detaining me for? I have hit a man a punch on the head, and want to get away from him"—where I took him was about 150 yards from the prosecutor's.

GUILTY . Aged 28.— Confined Twelve Months.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-853
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentenceTransportation; Transportation

Related Material

853. JOHN GARRETT and JAMES MURPHY , robbery on George Sapseid, and stealing from his person part of a watch chain, value 2l.; his property: to which


MR. TINDAL ATKINSON conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE SAPSEID . I am a glass engraver, of Charles-street, Grosvent square. On the night of 8th Sept., about 12o'clock or half past, I was walking up Bruton-street, Berkeley-square, turned under an archway for a necessary purpose, and Garrett came up to me (I was sober)—he put his arms round my throat, compressed it, and pulled me on my back on the ground—I saw my watch chain safe when I went there—it was an Albeit chain, through my button hole—while my throat was being pressed, Murphy came up, looked me in the face, and then knocked me over the eyes and mouth while Garrett held me—I was half down, there were gas light on each side, one in Bruton-street and the other by the Mews, sufficient to enable me to see a person's face—Murphy took hold of my chain, and snapped it off; I both saw and felt him do it—some police officers came to my assistance, and when the prisoners heard them coming, one of them left me, and Murphy was walking away when a policeman caught hold or him—they were both taken within half a dozen yards of where it happened—I this (produced) is the piece of my chain.

WILLIAM WILSON (policeman, C 101). On the night of 8th Sept., abort a quarter past 12 o'clock, I heard a groaning; which appeared to come from Barlow-mews; I ran down Bruton-street, came opposite the Mews, saw the prosecutor on his back struggling and kicking; and the prisoners on him; Murphy was leaning on his chest, and Garrett was standing over him—I took Murphy within three yards of the spot—I never lost sight of him; Garrett turned to the right, and came into Bond-street—I searched Murphy, and found these two knives on him (produced.)

Murphy. Q. Did you see me in the Mews? A. Yes, but I did not take you into custody there.

MORRIS ROBERTSON (policeman, C 163). I was in Barlow-mews, and heard a great groaning and calling out—when I got about twenty yards on, I saw three persons scuffling—I got within five yards of them, and saw Garrett walking away to the right, towards Bond-street—another constable at that time was facing him, and the prosecutor was on the ground—I made for Garrett, and took him into custody, and Wilson crossed the road and took Murphy.

COURT. Q. What state was the prosecutor in? A. He seemed to suffer very much from his chest and face.

COURT to WILLIAM WILSON. Q. What did Murphy do when you took him? A. He took hold of a post, with his arms round it, and said, "What do you want with me? I am innocent"—he said that he would go quietly with me if I would let him—Garrett said something about a third man, his companion, getting away, but he did not say that Murphy had nothing to do with it.

Murphy a Defence (written). On the night of the 7th instant, at a quarter past 12 o'clock (I had been to see some relations at Marylebone in the afternoon), I was crossing Oxford-street to go home to Westminster, when I heard a noise; I went down the street where the noise was, when I was surrounded by several policemen; one caught me by the collar, and began to strike and ill-use me very badly; I asked them not to ill-use me, and I would go with them quietly if they had anything against me; the

prisoner Garrett, on arriving at the station house, made a statement that I was not the party who had been with him, and that I was an innocent man, and that his mate had escaped; now, my Lord and gentlemen, this is a very hard case against me; I happened, as I have told you, to be unfortunately in the neighbourhood at the time, and was taken into custody, but that is no reason why I am guilty.

WILLIAM WILSON re-examined. I am quite sure that the man I took was the man I saw on the prosecutor's breast—if there was a third man, I must have seen him.


Murphy was further charged with having been before convicted.

MARK LOOME (police sergeant). I produce a certificate—(Read: "Central Criminal Court; James Murphy, Convicted of burglary, April, 1852;having been before convicted; Transported for ten years")—I was present—Murphy is the same man—he has been home about two months.

GUILTY. Aged 24.— Transported for Twenty Years. (Henry Attwood, policeman, F 152, stated that Garrett had been transported, and was a ticket of leave man, and the associate of notorious thieves.)

GARRETT Transported for Twenty Years.

NEW COURT.—Monday September 15th, 1856.


Before Michael Prenndergast, Esq., and the Fifth Jury.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-854
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

854. RICHARD VAUGHAN , stealing 64lbs. weight of oats, value 6s.; the goods of Joseph Brown Rigby and another, his masters.

MR. CAARTEN conducted the Prosecution.

RICHARD BEKAN (policeman, T 75). I am stationed at Hillingdon. On Monday last, 8th Sept, I was on duty, between 3 and 4 o'clock in the morning, opposite Messrs. Rigby's premises, and saw the prisoner come out of their yard with a horse and cart—I asked him what he had got, and where he was going—he said he was going to London, and he had bait for his horse—I said, "Have you got nothing else?"—he said, "Nothing"—I examined the cart, and found this sack concealed under the prisoner—he had taken the tail ladder from the back of the cart, and placed it in the centre of the cart, and the horse cloth was on the tail ladder, which covered the sack—I examined the sack, and found it contained clean oat—I weighed them, and there were 64lbs.—I asked the prisoner what he was doing with this—he said he thought he was doing no harm, as they stood in the sack; he asked me to let him take them back, he said there was no one about, no one would see him take them back—I told him I could not allow that, he must go to Hillingdon station—I took him there, and in going he asked me again to let him take them back, and he would give me anything if I would allow him to do so—I took him to the station—I have the oats here.

Cross-examined by MR. HUGHES. Q. Where were you on duty? A. In the parish of Harlington—this occurred between 3 and 4 o'clock in the morning—I have been sixteen or eighteen months on that beat—I do not know that the prisoner was in the service of the prosecutor—I had never seen him to my knowledge—I had never seen any one come out of the prosecutors'

premises at that time in the morning—when I asked him where he was going, he said he was going to London—he did not at that time tell me he was in the service of the prosecutors; he did afterwards, on the road—I said, "Does this cart belong to the firm?"—he said, "Yes; I go up for hay once a week;" and from that I inferred he was servant to the firm—my brother officer went to the station with me—he had gone down the remainder of my beat with me—he was with me at 2 o'clock—he came again at half past 2 o'clock, and was with me till between 3 and 4 o'clock—we were walking down the road—he has no beat—he was acting sergeant—he was present, and heard all that took place.

MR. CAARTEN. Q. Besides this bag, did you and some bait? A. Yes a nosebag, and a sack with mixed bait in it—that sack with the bait was standing upright in the cart—when I asked the prisoner what he had, he said, "Nothing."

CHARLES PAINE (policeman, T 252). I was with the last witness that morning—what he has said is true.

JOHN SMITH . I live at Dorleyfield, in the parish of Harlington; I am over looker in the employ of the prosecutors, Joseph Brown Rigby and Charles Rigby. The prisoner was in their employ as horsekeeper—I gave him directions on the Saturday evening to leave on Monday morning, at 3 o'clock, to come to London for clover hay—it is about fifteen miles from London—he was to return from London in about fifteen hours and a half—he was to take with him bait for the horses—I did not give any particular order as to what quantity to take, only bait for the horses—I think this sack contains bait sufficient for the journey—what he ought to have taken was clover and oats—this sack contains clover and oats—I allow him half a bushel a day, and this journey was about a day and a half—I should give him a bushel this journey—this sack contains about a bushel and a half—the nosebag has been emptied into this sack.

COURT. Q. Do you give them anything but the bait? A. Nothing but the bait, which is this mixture—the men would have no power to feed the horse on oats—no one would give the prisoner the corn; he was to take it—he had charge of the corn himself—he was not only a carman, but house-keeper—there are other carmen, but no other horsekeeper—I am quite sure the horses are not to be fed on oats—I had had these oats threshed—they were placed on the premises, with five or six other sacks—the mixture was kept in one corner—this mixture is in a state in which it would be proper to give the horse—he was to take bait for the horse—I should allow a bushel of oats for this journey.

Cross-examined. Q. How long has this man been in your employ? A. Six years under my direction, and five years before—he takes what corn he thinks proper for his horses—I have not known him to bring back any feed when he has taken too much—the other foreman has known him to bring back some—the part he had to go to was Holywell-street, Westminster Millbank—I have never known him to be guilty of the slightest fault—he has a wife and four children.

COURT. Q. Who put this bag into the cart? A. Himself.

RICHARD BEMAN re-examined. The horse cloth covered this sack altogether—it was partly drawn through the rails of the tail ladder—the sack was totally covered—I could not see it without getting into the cart—my attention was first drawn to it by the peculiar way in which he answered me—he seemed to be stagnated in speaking, and I followed the cart, and searched it.

MR. HUGHES called—

HENRY NEWMAN . I am foreman to Messrs. Rigby. The prisoner has been in their employ for four years, since I have been there—he has been in the habit of taking his hone and cart to London, and other places, when we are short of a man—he has the control of the corn house and the hay house—when he has gone out, there was no one to control him in what he took; he took what he thought proper—I have seen him once or twice, when he has come back, bring his nosebag and empty out what he has brought back—on 5th Sept. I sent a boy for some sacks, and then I went down and shot out a couple of sacks of potatoes on the top of the chaff, and there were several cotchells there, which is about as much as an old man can carry—my opinion is, that there is not sufficient for the prisoner's horse in the bait sack, but there is too much in the two sacks—my opinion is now, that the prisoner did not intend to steal—I never heard anything against him.

Cross-examined by MR. CAARTEN. Q. What are you? A. Manager of the brick-makers—my masters know of my being here to-day—Messrs. Bigby leave all to Mr. Smith—they came and called me out of my bed on the morning the prisoner was taken—I went before the Magistrate, and made my statement—I do not know whether it was taken down—I was present when Beman was examined, I saw his evidence taken, down—I do not believe mine was—I did not sign anything—I have once or twice seen the prisoner replace what he has brought back—he has emptied his nosebag—he might knock out a pottle of the mixture on the oats and chaff that were mixed together—this cart comes to London twice a week—the prisoner takes it sometimes, and sometimes the other man—there is no particular allowance for going to London—they mostly take more for a journey—I consider a horse wants very nearly twice as much victuals as when he is at home—a horse is never allowed unmixed oats, to my knowledge—the food is all mixed up before they take it—the prisoner was the horse keeper, and had the management of the stable—I should think half a bushel of oats to a bushel of chaff would make good bait—this mixture (looking at it) is in a state good enough for a horse to eat, but I do not think there is quite enough of this bait for a horse for one day—he would want about half a bushel more—if I had seen him with this 64lbs. of oats, I should have asked him what made him take all the lot.

COURT to JOHN SMITH. Q. Supposing the prisoner thought proper to give the horse oats unmixed, would it be in his discretion to do so? A. Yes—he prepares the food himself; he cuts the chaff, and mixes it.


15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-855
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

855. THOMAS KENNEDY , stealing 41 yards of canvass, value 1l. 15s.; the goods of Neese William Wikman and another.

PETER MILLER . I am an outfitter, of No. 132, Minories. On Saturday afternoon, 30th Aug., between 4 and 5 o'clock, I saw the prisoner, with two others, pass my shop, and from an observation they made in passing, I watched them—in about five minutes the prisoner and one of the others returned, and the prisoner had a bolt of canvass under his arm—I followed him, but not seeing a policeman, after following him along several streets, I stopped him, and told him to take the canvass back to the shop in the Minories, where he took it from—he Raid, "Pray don't give me into custody"—I insisted on his taking it back, and he took it back, and passed the shop one door, and said he had taken it from that corner of the street—I

saw a policeman, and gate him into custody—he said he had been employed to carry it, but did not point to any person who had hired him.

Prisoner. I pointed out the man that employed me, on the other side and you said, "Never mind the man, take it back, and I will not lock you up." Witness. No, I did not.

NEESE WILLIAM WIKMAN . I live at No. 103, Minories. On that Saturday afternoon I saw the prisoner pass, with the last witness—I believe this bolt of canvass is mine—it is exactly like a bolt I had just before—I had nine or ten bolts standing on a shelf in my warehouse, near the door—the door was open—the value of this is 34s. or 35s.—I found that one bolt was gone, No. 4, and this one is No. 4, and is from the same manufacturer as mine.

HENRY SMITH (City policeman 517). I took the prisoner, and have the bolt of canvass.

Prisoner. Q. Did you not see me lay this down on the pavement! A. Yes; and you stated that you had been hired to carry it—you said that you had pointed out a man—Mr. Miller said that you did not say that till you were given into custody—you gave your correct address.

Prisoner. I said that I had been at work for Mr. Nind, the paper stainer, and then, being out of work, I went to work for Mr. Syret, in the Back-road; if I had stolen this canvass I would have taken it back to the shop, and have begged for mercy.

GUILTY . Aged 23.— Confined One Month.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-856
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

856. JAMES RUDDIMAN , stealing, on 12th Aug., 1 loaf of breed, value 5d., on 13th Aug., 1 loaf, value 5d., and on 14th Aug., 1 loaf, value 5d.; the goods of Charles Norrington, his master.

CHARLES NORRINGTON . I am a baker, and live in Ave Maria-lane—the prisoner was in my employ—on 12th Aug., I delivered to him three quartern loaves, and one half quartern loaf, for Mr. Lavell—on 13th, three quartern loaves, and one half quartern loaf; on 14th, three quartern loaves; on the 15th, three quartern loaves, and one half quartern; and on the 16th, two quarterns and one half quartern—they were all for Mr. Lavell who keeps the Daniel Lambert—I did not make any order for the delivery I of that number of loaves—I gave the bread out myself—all these loaves I delivered to the prisoner to take to Mr. Lavell—this bread has not been returned to me, nor accounted for.

MARIAN ANNA LAVELL . My husband keeps the Daniel Lambert. We I have our bread from Mr. Norrington—on 12th Aug., the prisoner called I with bread—he delivered three quartern loaves, but no half quartern—I observed that he entered in my book three quarterns, and a half quartern—I I observed that directly he left the bar—I did not say anything to him that day—on 13th Aug., he came again and delivered two quartern loaves and one half quartern, and he put down in the book three quarterns—on 14th and 15th Aug., I did not take the bread in—on 16th Aug., I took the bread in, and the prisoner then delivered two quartern loaves, and put down two quartern loaves and a half—I have the book here containing the entries—I particularly looked at the entries when he was gone, and I have put down what I did have, on a piece of paper, and then entered it in the book.

ELIZA MULLIS . I am servant to Mrs. Lavell. On 14th Aug., I took the bread in of the prisoner, he left two quartern loaves and one half quartern and he put down in the book three quarterns—on 15th Aug., I took in of

him three quartern loaves, and he put down three quartern loaves and one half quartern—that I am quite sure of.

Prisoner. I do not think you looked in the book. Witness. Yes, I did, as soon as you were gone.

JAMES DANIEL FRANCIS LAVELL . I have paid Mr. Norrington for all the bread, according to the entries in this book—I went to tile prisoner when his master was out of town, and told him of it, and be abused me.

(The prisoner's aunt gave him a good character.)

GUILTY . Aged 26— Confined Four Months.

OLD COURT.—Tuesday September 16th, 1856.


Before Mr. Recorder and the Second Jury.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-857
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

857. JOSEPH M'DEVITT , feloniously forging and uttering an order for the payment of 10l.;. with intent to defraud: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY. Aged 37—Recommended to mercy— Confined Eighteen Months.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-858
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

858. PETER TULIT , stealing 1 sack of oats, value 13s., on 10th Sept also, 2 sacks of oats, value 26s., on 11th Sept; also, 2 other sacks of oats, on 11th Sept.; the goods of Charles Frederick Frost and another, his masters: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 56.— Confined Eighteen Months.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-859
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

Related Material

859. SAMUEL M'CULLOCH , feloniously forging and uttering an order for, the payment of 3l.; with intent to defraud.

EDWARD M'ENTEER . I keep a boarding house, at No. 105, Upper East Smithfield. The prisoner lodged at my house three weeks before this transaction—he slept there on the night of 18th Aug.—he did not pay me for the lodging on the 19th, but presented to me this seaman's advance note for 3l. (produced)—he said that he had got a ship, the Providence, and asked if I would cash the note—I said, "Yes," and then looked at it, and told him that I did not think it was genuine, and then one of the boarders looked at it, and said that it was not genuine—I took it from the boarder's hands—the prisoner said that he got the note from Limehouse shipping office, from a gentleman up stairs.

ENEAS REED . I am manager of the shipping office at Limehouse Captain Brown is the head shipping master, and Mr. Dunbar is the chairman of the board—we never issue advance notes at all, they are done away with by Act of Parliament—the prisoner never received this note there—the business is conducted by Captain Brown and two clerks, and myself and another manager—I pay the seamen's wages; advance notes used to be paid at one time, but not such as this—captains give the men a bond still but we have nothing to do with that, we pay them in cash when the ship arrives—we never pay advance wages now, and there was no such ship as the Providence in our office at that time—I have a copy from the books—I am only the manager—all I know of it is what I have heard.

JOHN WILLIAM FOULAND (policeman, H 104). On Wednesday, 19th Aug., I took the prisoner, told him he was charged with presenting this note, which was supposed to be forged, and showed it to him—he said,

"Very well"—I said that he must go with me to the station—he said, "Very well," and went with me quietly—when at the station, the inspector asked him where he got it from; he said, "From the Limehouse shipping office"—at the police office he said first that he received it at the shipping office, and afterwards he said that a lad came after him, and asked him if his name was M'Culloch, he said, "Yes," and he said, "I have a note for you which I brought from the captain," and asked him if he had got any half-pence in his pocket; he had got 2d., and gave it to him—there was no ship called the Providence in the port of London, or such a person as James Spratt—I tried to and Todd, a ship's chandler, but no such person was known.

ENEAS REED re-examined. The hours of the board are 9 to 5 o'clock—I am there all day, I Jive on the premises—the offices are up stairs—I saw the prisoner there about a fortnight before, looking for a ship—he did not go up stairs, we do not allow them to do so till they are engaged—the captain come to the front door, and engage the sailors—the names are generally put down on board the ship—the practice of the office is, they come there to meet the captains, and if they are engaged they are called up stairs.

(The prisoner received a good character.)

GUILTY of uttering. Aged 21.

(The officer Fouland, having been sent to make inquiries, stated that the ship Providence sailed on 26th July, and that the prisoner was entered as a seaman upon the books, and that there was every reason to believe that he was the dupe of others.)— Confined Five Days.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-860
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

860. WILLIAM ROBINSON , embezzling the sums of 2l. 3s. 8l., and 4l. 2s.; the moneys of John Joseph Martindale, his master.

JOHN JOSEPH MARTINDALE . I am a hat maker. The prisoner was my town and country traveller; the terms of his engagement were, 1s. in the pound commission on country business, 6d. in the pound for town business, and 11/4 per cent, upon all cash he received, in addition to his other commission—I gave, him no salary, and advanced no money for his expenses—his duties were, the greater part of the time, in town—I sent a boy out with him to take his parcels, and it was his duty to account every evening, less discount, and I put it into the book from his dictation—that was the town account—he did not make out an account himself—he did not keep a book—there was another person besides me to whom he could account for the country accounts—it is possible that that person might have received his account of town transactions; he is here—the prisoner never accounted to me for 4l. 2s. received of a person named Hill—he admitted it when I questioned him, but did not account at the time—he never accounted to me for 3l. 2s. received from Eastwood, or for 8l. from a person named Home—he has never accounted for these four amounts in this account—I asked him if he would make out a statement of the facts of what he had really taken, and then he opened his mind—I laid before him a list of debts not accounted for, and he said that he had received them, but did not account for them at the time—some of them were not accounted for two months after they were received—3l. 2s., which he received from Mr. Eastwood, was not accounted for at the time he received it, but he did account for it—I have not got my books, to say how soon afterwards; he has never been in the habit of paying me till a month or two months afterwards, and has then paid me with somebody else's money—it was his duty to pay me at once, but he did not do so—I do not charge him with the 3l. 2s. of Mr. East-wood's, he ought to have accounted for it on 10th May—I cannot tell how

long afterwards he did so, he paid it before I accused him—this (produce) is a memorandum of the debts which I made at the time—on 20th Aug., he returned home, about half past 10 o'clock at night, after being oat about ten days in the outskirts of London—I had found out on the Saturday before that he had received these amounts which I now charge him with—he came up stairs to see me, as I had been ill, and immediately he came in I placed a paper before him with those names upon it—(I have not got that paper; I have not looked for it, because he pleaded guilty, or I should have employed counsel)—those identical sums were mentioned—I did I not also mention them by word of mouth—I said, "Robinson, what do you know of those accounts?"—he closed his eyes, as if in deep thought, and said, "It is true, Sir"—I said, "What is true? have you received these accounts, and not accounted to me for them?"—he said, "Yes"—I said that I considered he had behaved very badly, and said, "I must have you charged, but if you like to relieve my mind, do so, for there is 200l. on the road you have just come off of"—I made no promise to him—he said, "I will tell you everything"—he then told me, in the presence of Judge, my assistant, of fourteen names which he had received, and not accounted for—they are on the paper, I wrote them at the time, that same evening—this is not the original, it is a copy; I made it very likely the same night, it was about the same time (looking at it)—it contained the name of Mr. Horne 8l. Barber, of the Royal Exchange, 10l. a bill; Judd, of Hertford, 2l. 10s., and others—he paid that account to my assistant—when the prisoner said that he had not paid it, he pleaded for mercy, and asked me whether I would make a debt of it—I said that I would do no such thing, I must give him in charge; that I had 200l. out upon that road, and had only received 20l. out of it—he declared solemnly that he had not a farthing in his possession, and asked my young man to give him 2s., as he had paid 2s. short that night—he made no excuse for not paying it over; he said that it had been going on for some time.

Prisoner. Q. Was not I more in the country than in town, taking one week with the other? A. No, I do not think I let you go out of town the first six months—you introduced yourself to me as the father of a young girl who was in my employ, said that you were going to take a little country excursion, and would I give you a little commission—I cannot recollect whether you went through Hertfordshire for me—the books will show where you travelled, but they are not here—I laid down a certain time that you were to pay the money in; I always required you to pay it in the same night, except when you were in the country, and then you paid it on your return—you may have been away a fortnight, instead of ten days; I was dangerously ill, and cannot say—yum forwarded me during the time 10l. of the Ilford country bank, the two halves of a 10l. note, and half of a 5l. note, and when you came in, you paid my managing man 8l. 12s. 6d. before you saw me, making 33l. 12s. 6d.—I did not, before I gave you in charge, ask you to give an account of all monies, saying that I did not know in what state my books were, as I had got a connexion varying from 100 to 200 customers—you did not tell me that you got into this difficulty through paying your country expenses.

CHARLES EASTWOOD . I am a linendraper of Newington causeway, and deal with Mr. Martindale. On 10th May, I paid the prisoner for him 3l. 2s.; he gave me this receipt (produced)—he made this statement out entirely at my place—on 10th June, I paid him 2l. 3s., and he gave me this receipt (produced) for goods had of Mr. Martindale.

JAMES HORNE . I am a hatter, of Tottenham Court-road, and deal with Mr. Martindale. On 19th July, I paid 8l. to the prisoner, and he gave us this receipt (produced) signed by him.

Prisoner. Q. Have not I been to your place, and stated to you several times, that I had no regular salary, merely a per centage? A. I remember your saying that you had a per centage, but I do not remember you saying that you had no salary—I know that you lived for many years in out of the first manufacturing houses in London—I have known you for twenty years, but not paying you money.

GEORGE HILLS . I am a hatter of No. 38, Crawford-street, and deal with Mr. Martindale. On 9th July, I paid the prisoner 4l. 2s. for Mr. Martindale; he gave me this receipt (produced.)

Prisoner. Q. Did not I induce you to do business with Mr. Martindale? A. Yes—I had not known you before.

HENRY WILLIAM JUDGE . I am warehouseman to Mr. Martindale. In his absence the prisoner would account to me for his country journeys—he has not accounted to me for 2l. 3s. received from Mr. Eastwood, on 10th June; or 8l. on 19th July, from Mr. Horne; or 4l. 2s. on 9th July, from Mr. Hills—when he came home on the evening of 20th Aug., he paid me 8l. 12s. 6d. in cash, and the remaining half of a 5l. note—he gave me a list of the sums he had received, but I had to press him very closely—this (produced) is the memorandum I made that night.

Prisoner. Q. Was I ever given to understand that I was to pay money at a certain time? A. I always understood that you were to pay it every night—you have paid me money the first thing in the morning when you have not returned at night, and in the middle of the day also—sometime you would not come back at night, but would go home, and in the course of the morning you might have received money, and accounted the next day—you have paid me money at all times—when you returned that evening you gave me a parcel of money indiscriminately, and said that you would render an account in the morning—I imagine that you had got a list—yon asked me if Mr. Martindale had received the half notes, and you gave me the remaining halves—you gave me 2s. short in the account, and if I had taken it, I should have been obliged to make it up, and you pressed me to give you 8s., which would make 10s. on account, as you had not a shilling—you said that you would see Mr. Martindale before you went; and I said "Just step up stairs," and went up with you.

COURT. Q. To your knowledge, had he his money in advance? A. Yes, by me—he did not state how he came to be so in want of money—nothing was said about expenses.

COURT to JOHN JOSEPH MARTINDALE. Q. Have you not had the curiosity to see how long afterwards he accounted for the 2l. 3s.? A. Yes; but I did not make a memorandum of it.

HENRY WILLIAM JUDGE re-examined. As near as I can charge my memory, it was on 26th May.

HABTLEY (examined by the prisoner). I introduced the prisoner to do business with Mr. Martindale—he has mentioned to me that he had no salary.

Prisoner's Defence. I am not guilty of embezzlement with intent to defraud, having rendered an account; the deficiency which I was short of I have spent in carrying out the prosecutor's business; I have travelled for Mr. Martindale since 4th July twelvemonths; he led me to believe that that the town trade was considerable, but I found that his connection was very indifferent,

and I asked him if I could do bettor if I attempted to extend it in the country; I did pretty middling, and went round again in six or eight weeks; I had to go to Hertford, and come home by Surrey; I went to Guildford and Farnham, Barking and Ilford, and made three or four different rounds, which lasted me a fortnight each; I have extended Mr. Martin—I dale's business from what it was, to over 1,000l. in the course of the year; I think I have got him 100 new customers, and have increased his business with a view to benefit myself; I therefore submit most humbly, that I am not guilty, having spent the moneys in carrying oat We furtherance of his Views


15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-861
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

Related Material

861. WILLIAM BOBINSON was again indicted for embezzling the sum of 2l., which he had received on account of John Joseph Martindale, his master.—( No evidence.)


15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-862
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > unknown

Related Material

862. THOMAS BANKS, CHARLES BRYANT , and RICHARD SHOLL , stealing 10lbs., weight of tobacco, value 10s.; the goods of William Alfred Joyce, on the navigable river Thames: to which

BRYANT PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 14.—He received a good character.— Confined Twelve Months.


the Prosecution.

RALPH FIELD THOMAS (Thames police inspector). On the evening of 2nd Sept., a few minutes before 9 o'clock, I was in a galley on the river, near the Custom House—I know Banks as a waterman—I saw him there in a boat—he went to a barge that was lying afloat off the Custom House—I afterwards ascertained that barge to be the Lord Clarendon—whilst he was proceeding there, I heard a whistle; it appeared to come from the direction of the barge—Banks then rowed his boat to the barge—I heard some one stumble from off the barge's cabin bead into the boat—Banks then rowed his boat ashore to the East Custom House-stairs—I saw that there was then a second person in it—when the boat got to the stain, that person jumped from the boat, and ran towards the steps leading to the street—that man was Bryant—he was stopped, and brought back—he smelt very strongly of rum—he had been drinking, but was not affected by it—he appeared to be quite conscious of what he was doing—he ran very nimbly from the boat, much more so than a drunken man could have done, for about fifteen yards—I asked Banks whom he had brought ashore—he said, "I don't know; I plied him as a fare from the stairs"—I said, "I know better, for I saw where you rowed your boat from, and you know all about it"—he said, no, he did not—he had not rowed from the stairs, but from between the two stairs, about the centre of the Custom House—I told him so—he then said, "Well, I know I did for I was waiting for him"—I then sent the constable, Dell, off to the Lord Clarendon barge, and afterwards went myself; I saw Sholl there—he was the Custom House officer in charge of the barge—Dell said to me, in his hearing, "Mr. Thomas, there is a white bundle in the hold"—I asked Sholl who he was—he said, "I am the officer; is there anything up?"—I said, "Yes; I have every reason to believe there has been a felony committed from the barge"—he said, Oh, impossible, it cannot be; there has been no one here but myself, and no one could get here without my knowing it"—I then asked him what the barge had in it—he said, "Tobacco leaves"—I said that I had two parties in custody on suspicion of stealing—I first showed him Bryant—he said, "I don know anything of him"—I then showed him Banks—he said, "Yes, I know him

as a waterman, and that is all I know of him"—he appeared quite sober; he did not smell at all of liquor—I found no rum, or smell of turn, on board—I then proceeded to search the barge, in Sholl's presence—I found the hatches closed, the tarpaulins over the hatches, and the hatch bars over them, all apparently secure—I then went down into the cabin—I found the door leading from the cabin into the hold—the hatches being fast, that was the only way by which anybody could get into the hold—I found sprinkled on the steps of the cabin a quantity of small, broken tobacco leaf, and the same on the cabin floor, towards the door leading into the hold, and also from the door leading to the case containing tobacco—in the hold, and between the case and the door, about four feet within the door, I found a quantity of tobacco tied up in a white apron—I called Sholl's attention to these appearances—he said, "Well, it certainly does look very suspicious, very queer indeed; nobody could come here without my seeing them; I have been here by myself, as I told you before"—he then became very excited indeed—he was then in the hold along with me—I pointed out the bundle to him—he said he knew nothing at all about it; that was the first he had seen of it—I examined the cases in the hold—one was unsound, and broken—a piece of the case was broken off, and lying down on the barge's ceiling; the head of the case was partly raised, and there was a vacant space in the tobacco inside, of about six inches in depth; I judge that would be about 30lbs.—the case was about three feet six, square—I then took Bryant and Banks to the station, and in about an hour and a half returned to the barge—I found Sholl in the cabin—the cabin floor had then been swept, or rather the particles of leaves I had left, were all gone, and I said to him, "Why, the cabin floor has been swept since I have been away; have you swept it?"—he said, "No; it is not my place to sweep cabin floors"—I then walked into the hold, and saw the case, and said, "This case is not as I left it"—when I left it the piece was lying on the bottom of the barge's ceiling, and when I came back it was put on in its original place, as far as the nails would admit, and the tobacco in the case was lightened up, so as to give the case the appearance of being full—I said to him, "This case is not as I left it"—he said, "How can that be, when there has been nobody here but myself? you are a d—scoundrel, sir, for insinuating such a thing; I see what you want plainly; you want to get a case up against me"—I took a sample of the tobacco in the case, and afterwards compared it with some tobacco found on Bryant—it exactly corresponded—6 1/2 lbs. was found on Bryant—there was about 4lbs. in the apron—I reported to my superintendent, Mr. Evans, what had transpired, and, in consequence of his directions, I went two days afterwards to Sholl's residence—I found him there, and told him that he must consider himself in custody—he said, "You don't mean that, do you?"—I said, "Yes"—he asked me whose authority, and what authority I had—I told him, "As a police inspector"—he said, "Where is your authority?"—I showed him my warrant card—he said, "I don't mean that; I want to know who sent you here?"—I said, "Superintendent Evans"—I told him I took him into custody for being concerned, with two others in custody, in stealing 10lbs. of tobacco from a case in the barge Lord Clarendon—he said, "It is a bad job; all I know about it is I was asleep"—I had seen him on the previous morning, Wednesday, standing at the corner of Water-lane, Thames-street he bade me "Good morning," and asked how I was getting on with the case—I said I was going before the Lord Mayor with the two prisoners—he said, "Well, it is a bad job; unfortunately I was asleep, but I don't like to

tell the Board that"—that was the first he said about being asleep—I found nobody on board the barge but him at first, except Dell, the constable, whom I had sent there—the barge will carry from sixty-five to seventy tons; it is nearly as long as this Court; it is a river barge, with a cabin at one end, rather raised above the deck—you enter it by a little scuttle, or hatchway—his place would be in the cabin, or on deck, I suppose.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Is there any forecastle to this barge? A. Yes—I descended into the forecastle by the scuttle—there is a way from the forecastle into the hold—there are hatchways communicating between the deck and the hold—you could get that way into the cabin, by lifting the ban, tarpaulins, and hatches—they were all safe and secure, but not looked—I do not know how many cases of tobacco there were in the hold—one of them was damaged'—I understand from the stevedore that that case came on board the Lord Clarendon damaged—I have been in the police nearly ten years—I have known Scholl as a Custom-house officer nearly the whole of that time—I know nothing at all of his abilities—I do not know that he has aided in conducting several prosecutions for smuggling—the robbery occurred on the Tuesday night; it was on the Wednesday morning when Scholl first said that he had been asleep.

MR. BODKIN. Q. Was there any appearance of the hatches haying been removed? A. None at all—the hatches are made of wood, then there was a tarpaulin, and then the bars, which are long wooden bare that go the whole extent of the hatchway—they were not fastened or locked—in order to get into the hold that way, it would be necessary to remove all those things.

JAMES LEWIS (Thames policeman). I was in the galley with the other officers—I followed Bryant, and took him into custody; he had been drinking, but knew very well what he was about.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you see him searched? A. I took the tobacco away from him; it was secreted under his waistcoat; it weighed 6 1/2 lbs.

JAMES WILLIAMS . I am a stevedore. I was on board the Cares steamer, assisting to unload her cargo—I put three cases of tobacco out of her into the barge Lord Clarendon—I observed that one of the cases was broken on the head; it was broken down in the hold in getting it out of the Ceres; a great quantity of tobacco fell out of it, it fell out solid—it was all picked up again, and replaced on the top of the case—I cannot say how much of it there was, there was a great quantity—I saw that case again on the Wednesday morning; the tobacco that I had replaced was then all gone, and more also, and the tobacco underneath appeared to have been lightened up by the hands, to make it appear full.

Cross-examined. Q. Was the case weighed before it was put on board the Lord Clarendon? A. No—some of the tobacco had escaped in the hold of the Ceres; none escaped in moving it into the barge, it was put in its place, and the slings kept it together—the case was not repaired at all—the Lord Clarendon was moored alongside the cares and the case was moved in a pair of rope slings—I afterwards went into the hold of the Lord Clarendon; I did nothing towards repairing the case, I left it there in the damaged state in which I found it.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE Q. When you were in the hold of the Lord Clarendon, did you notice whether any of the tobacco had escaped in its transit from the Ceres? A. None—I should say there was about 40 or 50lbs. of the loose tobacco—the whole of that was gone on the Wednesday, and a great deal more also—it was packed in hanks, and pressed down—it would require a good deal of trouble to loosen it.

COURT. Q. When it was placed in the hold of the Lord Clarendon, was it taken through the hatches, or through the cabin? A. Through the batches—there could not have been any escape in the cabin.

WILLIAM BENFIELD . I live at No. 4, Pennington-place, Pennington-street, Wapping, and am in the employ of Mr. Alfred Joyce, a lighterman, the owner of the Lard Clarendon. On the morning of 2nd Sept. I went alongside the Ceres when she arrived from Rotterdam, and took the tobacco from her—one of the cases was injured—I delivered the cases into the care of the prisoner Sholl—he saw that one of them had been injured, and he made a remark about it, in a lighter note; he said, "Yes, it is in a very bad condition," and so it was acknowledged by the officer on board—after leaving them on board, I left the barge—my responsibility was then at an end—the tobacco was taken down the barge's hatches, I took it in; we then put the hatches on, then a tarpaulin, and then the hatch bars—they were not fastened—two men might move them in two minutes; it would be difficult for one to do it—a hatch is a heavy thing.

Cross-examined. Q. The hatch is the covering over the mouth of the hold? A. Yes; one man would not be able to shift it on one side—it is a barge carrying 70 tons—the hatch is about six inches less than that table—there was another man employed in the hold with me, who was in William's employ, and likewise Williams himself lent a hand when he found the state the case was in—none of the ship's crew were employed at it, the removal was conducted by men in Williams's employ—there were three of us; there was nobody else, except Sholl, and he lent a hand to shove it clear—the other man is a labourer, a stranger to me; I do not know his name.

JAMES WILLIAMS re-examined. The man who was assisting in the removal was named Johnson—he is not here—he is a labouring man, and works under me—I left the barge between 9 and 10 o'clock in the morning.

JAMES DELL (Themes policeman, 12). After Bryant had been given into custody, I went on board the Lord Clarendon barge with Banks—I saw Sholl standing in the scuttle of the barge, leading into the cabin—I said, "Is that the watchman?" it was dark—he replied, "What do you want to know?"—I said, "I want to know who you are, and what the barge has got in her "—he said, "Who are you?"—I said, "The police "—inspector Thomas came alongside at the time with the police galley—I then got on board—Sholl directly went down into the cabin—I put my two legs down to get into the cabin, when Sholl shoved his head in between my legs, and said, "What do you want?"—I said, "I want to know who you are"—he said, "I am the Custom-house officer"—I said, "Why did you not say you were the Custom-house officer?"—he said, "Is there anything amiss?"—I said, "Yes, you had better come up "—he then came up to the cabin top—I said, "What has the barge got in?—he said, "Tobacco"—I called inspector Thomas's attention to it—I took Bryant into custody, and took him to the barge—about two or three minutes elapsed between my taking him and going to the barge, four or five minutes at the outside—I found Sholl standing in the scuttle.

Cross-examined. Q. I believe it was a very dark night? A. Very dark—he did not appear to know me—he made no observation when I told him I was an officer—his proper place would be on deck, or in the cabin.

COURT. Q. Did you see any tobacco on the deck? A. Yes, I saw some round the scuttle, some on the ladder, and some in the barge's cabin—I saw the piece of the top of the case—it was lying in the barge's hold, by

the side of the case—it was a piece about—two or three inches wide, and three or four feet long.


15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-863
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

863. JAMES EVANS, ROBERT JOHNSON , and JAMES RANFIELD , burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of William Catlin, at St. Pancras, and stealing therein, 5 snuff boxes, and 7 pipes, value 7l. 10s.; his property. MR. PAYNE conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM CATLIN . I am a tobacconist, of Albany-street, Regent's-park. On the night of 26th Aug., I was away from home—I came back about a quarter past 12 o'clock, and found a large hole cut through my shop window, and missed several snuff boxes, silver mounted pipes, cigar cases, and two or three other little articles, value 7l. 10s., which I had left safe at a quarter past 11 o'clock—they were in such a position that a person could take them from the hole without going into the house.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. You said that there were several other articles, tell me what they were? A. There was such a miscellaneous lot of articles in my window that I cannot tell; there were six or seven silver mounted meerschaum piper and a stem, one silver snuff box, and four paper ones, and a cigar case.

ANN JAMES . I am the wife of Henry James, of No. 30, Frederick-street, near Albany-street. On 26th Aug., from a quarter to half past 11 o'clock at night, I saw the three prisoners together at the top of Frederick-street, and in Albany-street, at Mr. Catlin's shop window—Ranfield put his arm in at the window, took out the things, and gave them to Evans—Johnson was on the opposite side of the way—they all three ran away together round by the church, or walked pretty fast, because they saw me watching them—I saw Mr. Catlin five or ten minutes afterwards.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. How near were you to the shop? A. Three or four yards on the same side of the way—I stopped quite still, but said nothing to them—when I saw Ranfield with his arm in the window I walked into the shop to tell Mr. Catlin, but there was nobody there but a little boy and a girl—I did not think it was my place to speak to the prisoners—it was a dark night, but I could see by the lamps—the boy in the shop was deaf, and the girl was fast asleep—the prisoners never moved till I went in; Ranfield still kept taking out the things, as I walked into the shop—I spoke to the girl when she awoke, and she fetched her father—I waited for Mr. Catlin at the shop window, and saw the prisoners walk away—I could not prevent their taking the things out—there was not a policeman to call, because he had just gone—my husband is an engineer, I was out waiting for him—I did not know the prisoners before—they passed me in Frederick-street, but I did not take particular notice of them at that time.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. How far was Johnson from the shop at the time you saw the boys taking property out of the window? A. He was right opposite, on the other side of the street—Frederick-street runs into Albany-street—the shop is in Albany-street, eight or nine doors from the corner—I did not notice some girls at the corner of Frederick-street—I did not know Johnson when he was on the other side of the way, but when he crossed over I knew him—I mean that I should not have known him if he had not crossed over—when he was taken into custody I was quite sure he was the lad I had seen on the opposite side of the street—I identified him on the same night—the three prisoners were shown to me together—when Johnson was shown to me, I said that I knew him, and that he was on the other side of the way, and I could not swear to him, but he crossed over to the other side, and then I saw his face, and can swear to him.

MR. RIBTON. Q. Did you say anything at the station about locking them up on suspicion? A. No—I did not say so to a policeman—I did not want to implicate myself in it at all, but was obliged to do it—they were taken about a quarter of an hour after I saw them—I went with them to the station, and never lost sight of them—it was half an hour between my seeing them first and their being at the station, but I saw them in the mean time—from the time I saw them at the window, I never lost sight of them—they ran down Osnaburg-street, and I followed them, and kept them in sight.

COURT. Q. Did you go into the shop? A. I went just by the door, and called the little girl—the three boys were at the window till I came out and then they went away, and ran round Osnaburg-street—I went after them till I saw a policeman—I followed them with Mr. Catlin; they turned into Frederick-street, and came round again into Albany-street, and the policeman took them—I kept sight of them all the time, except when I put my head into the shop.

MR. PAYNE. Q. When you were in Frederick-street you saw three persons come up the street and pass you? A. When I was at the top, I saw the three persons pass me—when I was in Albany-street, I saw two of them at the window, and the third on the other side of the way; I could not at that time see that he was Johnson, but when he crossed over I saw that it was him, and know that they were the same three that I had seen in Frederick-street.

WILLIAM PEARCE (policeman, S 392). On 26th Aug., I was in Albany-street, about 11 o'clock at night—my attention was called to the broken glass, and as I was looking at it, the prisoner Johnson ran past me—Mr. Catlin's son pointed him out to me, and I ran after him, overtook him fifty yards from the shop, and brought him back—he said, "I know nothing about it; here is my mate coming, he will clear me "—I took him to the shop, and Ranfield came up, and was pointed out as another of them by Mr. Catlin and the witness James, who were together, and I took him—I took them inside the shop, searched them, but found nothing on them—on our way to the station, we fell in with Evans in Little Albany-street, and Leverett took him.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Were there any girls about? A. I did not see them—I saw a horse and chaise—I heard Evans say at the police court, that he had gone to school that evening, and stopped there till five minutes past 9 o'clock; that he went to his sister's and stopped there till 10 o'clock; and was going home and met Johnson and Ranfield—he said it to the Magistrate—I heard him say that a gentleman asked the girl to take a ride with him—there were no other boys about, it was late.

Cross-examinedeby MR. SLEIGH. Q. You knew that the robbery had been committed? A. Yes, a minute before—I heard no one call, "Stop thief!"—Johnson was running, and I ran and caught him—I did not tell him that I took him on a charge of robbing any shop, I only said, "You are wanted back here"—he did not ask me what for.

COURT. Q. Who called you? A. Mr. Catlin's son—Ranfield came in the same direction as Johnson—I was in uniform—I met Evans about 100 yards from the shop—it was not Mrs. James who pointed out either of them to me, but she was with Mr. Catlin; they were together.

FRANCIS LEVERETT (policeman, S 68). I was in Frederick-street, and saw Johnson and Evans in custody; I asked Mr. Catlin what was the matter—I saw Ranfield go up to Evans by the pony and chaise, which was 150 yards from Mr. Catlin's shop, and say, "You must be a fool to say

that you did not know us, when we are all pals together"—I was close by them; I have seen them together a great many times, but not that night.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Was Evans holding the horse? A. He was standing by the side of the pony, and while he was standing there the other constable came back with the other two in custody—Ranfield was in custody when he used those words, he just stepped up to Evans; they had not hold of him—it is about five minutes walk from Mr. Catlin's to the station.

COURT to ANN JAKES. Q. You say that you followed the boys, and never lost sight of them? A. Yes; I pointed them out to Mr. Catlin, all three together, in Little Albany-street, and when they saw me, they ran down Great Albany-street, and Pearce caught two of them: the third, Ranfield, was in Little Albany-street; two of them ran, and left him—Evans was holding the pony.

(The prisoners' statements before the Magistrate were here read, at follows: "Evans says: "About 7 o'clock, after I left work, I washed myself and went to school, and staid in school till 5 minutes past 9 o'clock; I went to my sister's, and stopped there till 10 o'clock; I was going home, and met Johnson and Ranfield; I stopped to speak to them; I was talking to them about an hour and a half; there was a young girl, and as we were talking together, a gentleman asked her to take a ride; we took no notice; her sister begged her to come down, and the gentleman drove on; her sister said to us, 'Go and watch that gentleman where he is taking my sister, as he may take her away, and leave her somewhere;' we ran after the chaise, and watched it into Howland-street; we followed him to Little Albany-street, and the gentleman called me to mind the horse and chaise"—Ranfield says: "When the policeman first laid hold of Johnson, the master of the shop said, 'Can you swear to them?' she said, No; one might be the size of Johnson, and one not so big as me, and there was another man with a hat on; the master searched us, and found nothing on us; the policeman said, 'if you like, you can lock them up on suspicion of it;' when we got to the station, we were searched again, and the lady said,' Lock them up on suspicion;' she could not swear to us, and that was written on the sheet" Johnson says: "I went with Ranfield to get a drop of water, and as we were coming back, the policeman took me into the tobacco shop."

COURT to ANN JAMES. Q. Do you still say that you kept them in sight the whole time? A. Yes—I did not see them throw anything away, bat I left them for a minute to go for Mr. Catlin—when Ranfield had his arm through the hole, I saw him take a meerschaum pipe, a long one—I never lost sight of him till he was taken, except for five minutes, when I crossed over to Mr. Catlin, in Little Albany-street.


NEW COURT.—Tuesday, September 16th 1856.


Before Michael Prendergast, Esq., and the Sixth Jury.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-864
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

864. JOHN WHITE , unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 32.— Confined Six Months.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-865
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

865. JOHN EDWARDS was indicted for a like offence: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 23.— Confined Six Months.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-866
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

866. GEORGE PIERCEY was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. BODKIN and ELLIS, JUN., conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY FAYLE . I am landlord of the Victoria public house, No, 5, Providence-row, limehouse. On Sunday, 7th Sept., the prisoner came to my house—he had a glass of ale, it came to 1 1/2 d., he gave me a shilling—I gave him 10 1/2 d. change, and pat the shilling into the till, there was no other there—he went to the door, and spoke to some one—he returned, and asked for a bottle of soda water to take away—he gave me a 5s. piece—I gave him 4s. 8d. change—he was just going away, and was caught and brought back—after he gave me the crown, I dropped it into the till where the shilling was, and there was no other crown there—a gentleman spoke to me, I took the crown out of the till, and went after the prisoner, and brought him back—he gave me a good crown, and said he did not know the crown was bad—he wished very much to be let off, said he did not know it was bad, and that he took it at Deptford—I gave the bad crown to the policeman, and the shilling also—when the prisoner was going down the road, he said he gave me 1 1/2 d. for the glass of ale, he did not give me shilling.

Prisoner. Q. Did not I give you 1 1/2 d. for the glass of ale? A. No, you gave me a shilling—I did not say I could not swear that you gave it me—that was a shilling that you gave me on Saturday night—I had taken a bad shilling then, but I could not swear that you gave me that shilling.

MR. BODKIN. Q. What interval was there between his giving you the shilling and the crown piece? A. Not more than two or three minutes—the prisoner had been there on Saturday night, and he had given me a shilling—I afterwards found that I had a bad shilling, but I could not swear that the prisoner gave me that one—he had a glass of ale on Saturday night, which came to 1 1/2 d.

JAMBS HUNT (policeman, K 384); I was called to the house of the last witness, and took the prisoner—I produce this crown piece that the witness gave me—the prisoner said he came from Deptford, and he took the 5s. piece there that day—on going to the station this shilling was produced, and the prisoner was charged with uttering it—he said he had paid with 1 1/2 d., he had not passed that shilling—he was asked his address, he said at some street in Aldersgate-street, and at the station he refused to give his address.

Prisoner. Q. Did I not say to the prosecutor, "Can you swear that I gave you that shilling?" and did he not say, "I can't swear that he gave me that"? A. I did not hear him say anything about it.

MR. BODKIN. Q. Did the prosecutor express any doubt about the prisoner passing the shilling on the Sunday? A. No, he said he was almost sure it was the same as the shilling he had passed on the Saturday night.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin to the Royal Mint. These are both counterfeit.

Prisoners Defence. I received the crown with 10s. for two tea tables I sold on the Saturday; the landlord says I gave him a shilling for the glass of ale, and he gave me change, which is utterly untrue; I gave him 1 1/2 d.; after he served me with the glass of ale, he received some coin from some sailors and girls who were there drinking; when I was given in charge, the landlord said, "I know you gave me the 5s. piece, I can't be certain you

gave me the shilling;" had I the means of procuring legal assistance, I could prove that on Saturday I was not there; I have worked for Mr. Martin, at the West India Docks, and Mr. Smith, at the London Docks, but they are unable to attend.

JURY to JAMES HUNT. Q. What money did you find on the prisoner) A. One crown piece, two shillings, one sixpence, and 2d.

GUILTY . Aged 3l.— Confined Six Months.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-867
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

867. GEORGE BBOWN, MARY SULLIVAN , and THOMAS LANGDON , unlawfully having counterfeit coin in their possession.

MESSRS. BODKIN and ELLIS, JUN., conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES BRANNAM . I was in the police, but have lately received a pension. On 10th Sept. I went to ft house in Flower and Dean-street, Spitalfields, with some officers—on entering the street, there were a great number of persons, who called out, "Jack I Jack Sheppard! here comes the b——coppers!"—I saw Brown and Langdon put their heads out of the first floor windows of the house, without their hate or coats on—I rushed up stairs, followed by other officers—I saw Langdon leave Brown's room and rush into an adjoining room, and the door was closed—I broke the room door open, and saw Langdon come from a table, and sit down on a chair by the door—the drawer of that table was open, and in it I found two files, with white metal in their teeth, at if they had been recently used—on the table was this little pot, containing sand and water—we secured these articles, and put them into Brown's room—at the time I was forcing the door open, I saw Brown (I believe it was) run up stairs—he had nothing on but his trowsers and shirt and boots—on entering the room, I saw Sullivan sitting near the window, which was open, and two shillings were near her, bearing date 1819—this was the front room, out of the window of which I had seen the men put their heads—I then proceeded up stairs, where I had seen the man run—I found Brown in bed—I called him by the name of Jack, and shook him two or three times—I said, "It is nonsense for you to play these tricks with me; you are not asleep, I know"—(this was in the room over the room I had seen them look out of; it looked on to the parapet of the house)—Brown said, "I have been asleep, so help me God; I have been up all night"—I asked him to get up, he refused, and I was compelled to pull him out of bed—at that time he put on his trowsers and boots, and became very violent—after he had been secured he attempted to butt me with his head, and stamped with all his force on our toes—after he was secured he said, "If you will let me dress myself I will go with you quietly"—I said, "That we will do, you have no clothes here"—he said, "No, they are down stairs"—I took him down to the room where I had seen him put his head out of the window, and in that room, on a bed, was his coat and handkerchief, and waistcoat and cap—I addressed Sullivan, and said, "What have you got about you?—she said, "Nothing, Sir, but good money"—I said, "I must have it," and she took from her pocket this bag, which contains 1l. 7s. 6d. in good money, consisting of one half-crown, florins, shillings, and one sixpence—the half crown bears the date of 1818, which corresponds with the half crown which will be produced—we secured the prisoners, and took them to the station—there was a mob outside, of I suppose, 2,000 persons—they were very riotous, and began to unharness the horse from the cab that we were taking the prisoners to the station in.

BENJAMIN BRYANT (police sergeant G 22). I went to the house with the last witness—I waited outside, in company with Elliott—as the officers

were going up stairs, I saw Langdon and Sullivan looking out of the first floor window—I said to Langdon, "You will be all right presently"—he drew his head in, and came to the window immediately after, and threw out a handful of counterfeit shillings—there was a mob of 300 or 400 persons—I succeeded in picking up one of the shillings—I think he threw out thirty or forty pieces—after that I heard some one call from the top of the house—I looked up, and I looked and saw Brown leaning over the parapet, and I saw him throw from his hand this dark coloured bag—as the bag was falling some pieces of coin fell out of it—I think it had shillings and half crowns in it—I succeeded in picking up one shilling—Martin picked up the bag and ran away with it—some of the officers pursued him, and brought him and the bag back—I afterwards went into the house, and found Mr. Brannan had Langdon in custody—I said, "That is one of them "—I took Langdon into Brown's room, the first floor front room, where I had seen the persons looking out of the window—I found on the table in the room a counterfeit shilling, bearing the date of 1819—I assisted in taking the prisoners to the station.

JAMES BRANNAN , Jun. (police sergeant, G 21). I went with the other offence to the house—I went up to the first floor front room—I then heard something, and ran down to the street—there was a large crowd outside—I saw a dark coloured bag fall, but I did not see where it fell from—it was thrown from the direction of the house, but I could not see who threw it—I saw Martin pick it up, and run away—I pursued him some distance—he toned into Fashion-court, and threw the bag over the wall—I seized him, and said, "You did not do that cleverly "—he said, "I only did it to keep the poor devils out of trouble "—the bag was picked up by Elliott.

ARTHUR AUGUSTUS ELLIOTT (policeman, G 104). I went with the other officers to the house—I stopped in the street, and while there I saw Langdon and Sullivan with their heads out at the first floor window—some one spoke to them, and they went in, and Langdon came to the window again, and threw out a handful of counterfeit shillings, which were picked up by the mob in front of the house—there was a dark bag thrown by Brown from the top of the house—several pieces of coin fell from it—I picked up one half crown and one shilling—the rest was picked up by the mob—I saw the bag picked up by Martin—I followed him with the last witness—he threw the bag over a wall—it fell into a water butt, I picked it out, and found in it seven counterfeit half crowns, of the date of 1819—they were in separate fine paper, but they got so wet I could not keep the papers on.

Brown. It was not me that threw the bag out.

THOMAS EVANS (policeman, G 145). I was with the other officers—I went up stairs, and saw Brown come from the room over the coal shed or greengrocer's—he went up stairs—I went into the room from which he came, and found Sullivan there—I asked her whether she lived there—she said, "Yes"—there was a fire in the room—it was a clear bright fire—there was white metal running through the fire—I picked off the coals this part of a half crown—I found this copper wire, this pipkin with melted metal in it, and on the table some sand, two bottles containing acid, and some other things.

BENJAMIN MARTIN . I live at No. 4, Flower and Dean-court. I heard the noise, and went to the place—I stood two or three yards away from the crowd—a bag fell from the garret window—I picked it up, and ran away with it—I threw it over a fence—the officers took me, and brought me back and the bag too—I threw the bag over the wall; I did not know it went

into the water butt—there was money in it—I looked, and saw it was had, and I threw it over the wall.

Brow. Q. Was it me that threw it out of the window? A. No, it was a young woman—it was not Sullivan—it was another young woman threw it from the garret window.

COURT. Q. The garret window is back from the parapet, is it not? A. Yes, but the young woman got right upon the parapet to throw it—I could see her face distinctly, and she had a brown frock on.

JAMES BRANNAN re-examined. There were several other lodgers in the house; they all flocked on to the parapet when we went in.

COURT to ARTHUR AUGUSTUS ELLIOTT. Q. Can you undertake to say who was the person that threw it? A. It was George Brown—he had no cap or coat or waistcoat on at the time—there was no young woman there.

BENJAMIN MARTIN re-examined. I can be on my oath it was a young woman that threw it—she had a brown dress on—I could see her face.

COURT to BENJAMIN BRYANT. Q. Did you see Brown on the parapet? A. Yes, I heard him call, and saw him throw the bag—he had no coat, waistcoat, or cap on.

Brown. It was not me that threw the bag.

WILLIAM BRISCOE (policeman H 100). I assisted the other officers in taking the prisoners—I have been on duty in that neighbourhood from twelve to eighteen months—I have seen Brown and Sullivan in bed together.

Brown. Q. Have you been on duty there twelve months? A. Yes, on and off—I have seen you in bed with Sullivan three or lour times—I have seen you get up and open the room door to me on several occasions, and go into bed again.

COURT. Q. What had you to go to the house for? A. There are various robberies about there, and we have often to go to this house, to make the persons get up, and search the place and the persons.

ELIZABETH PHIPPS . I keep this house—I know Sullivan—I let her the front room, over the greengrocer's shop, about twelve months ago—I have seen Brown up and down the stairs—I never saw him in the room.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These shillings and half crowns are all bad—eight of the half crowns are from one mould—this good half crown which was found on Sullivan has been used to make the mould from which these bad ones were made, and one of the shillings found on her is the one from which the mould was made in which all these bad shillings were made—this metal is the same as is used in making counterfeit coin—this wire is used on the battery—all these other things are used in making counterfeit coin.

Langdon's Defence. I was not in the room.

Brown's Defence. I was up stairs; I had been out all night, and had a drop to drink; I was not sober; I went to bed, and where I had put my clothes I cannot tell; I can assure you I had nothing to do with it, and what they say about my throwing the things out of the window is utterly false.

BROWN— GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Eighteen Months.

SULLIVAN— GUILTY . Aged 22.— Confined One Year.

LANGDON— GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Eighteen Months.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-868
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

868. MARIA ALLEN was indicted for unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. BODKIN and CLERK conducted the Prosecution.

SARAH ANN CHEESEMAN . I am the wife of John Cheeseman; I keep a fancy repository at Paddington. On 12th Aug. the prisoner came, about half past 12 o'clock—she looked at several toys, and then asked for a penny doll—I gave her one—she threw down a sixpence on the counter—I did not take it up at the time, but the moment she turned her hack I took it I up, and it was bad—I kept it in my hand, and went to the door to look for her, but she was gone—I wrapped the sixpence in a paper, and put on it, "Given to me the 12th of August"—I put it away, and no person knew that it was there, nor that I had taken it—on 28th Aug. the prisoner came again—she wanted a penny doll, and gave me another sixpence—I observed it was bad when she gave it me, and I told my niece to go for change, but she went for a constable, in consequence of what I had before said to her—the constable came, and took the prisoner—I gave him the two sixpences.

Prisoner. I was not in the shop on 12th Aug.; it is not likely I should have waited above half an hour before the officer came. Witness. She did wait—when she was at the station she said she had given the doll which she bought on 12th Aug. to a child in the house—I recognized her on her entering the shop—I pretended to give the sixpence to my niece, but I did not; I kept it in my hand till the officer came—there were others of her party outside, from whom I had taken bad money before.

ABTHUR BROWN (policeman, D 113). I took the prisoner into custody—these are the two sixpences which I got from the last witness—the prisoner said she was not aware that the sixpence was bad; she was very sorry for it.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These sixpences are both counterfeit.

Prisoner. I am very sorry it was bad; I went to buy the doll for a little girl that was in the workhouse; I had the money from a gentleman the night before.

ARTHUR BROWN re-examined. I heard her say she had given the doll to a child in Paddington workhouse, and she mentioned the name of the child.

GUILTY . Aged 32.— Confined Three Months.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-869
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > unknown

Related Material

869. SARAH MORTLOCK, FANNY MORTLOCK , and CATHARINE SULLIVAN , were indicted for a like offence: to which

SARAH MORTLOCK PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 25.— Confined Three Months.

(MR. BODKIN offered no evidence against the other prisoners.)


15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-870
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

870. JOHN HAYNES was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. BODKIN and CLERK conducted the Prosecution.

CAROLINE BURGHER . I am housemaid at No. 7, Gloucester-terrace, Hyde Park-gardens. On 14th Aug. I got into an omnibus, to go from the Marble Arch to Tottenham Court-road—the prisoner was the conductor—I got out at Tottenham Court-road—the fare was 2d.—I gave him a half crown—he gave me a shilling, two sixpences, and a 4d. piece—I put the money into my glove—I went afterwards to an Italian warehouse in Oxford-street—I bought a bottle of French polish—I gave the shilling which was in my glove—I had no other money—the shilling was refused by the shopkeeper—I left it with him, and paid with the two sixpences—on the following day I made an arrangement with my sister to go in an omnibus from the Marble Arch—the prisoner was the conductor—we got in, and went to Marylebone-lane—we got out, and I offered the prisoner a half crown to pay for myself—he

gave me a shilling, two sixpences, and a 4d. piece—I bit the shilling, and perceived that it was bad—I gave it to my sister—I told the prisoner it was bad—he said he was not aware of it, and he would give me a good shilling—my sister called a policeman, and told him the charge—I went to Mr. Dean's, the Italian warehouse, and got the other, shilling, and gave it to the constable—I saw the prisoner taken as he was coming back, about an hour afterwards.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did you ever travel by the omnibus of which this man was the conductor before? A. Yes, frequently—when my sister made the charge, the prisoner at once said he might have done so, as be frequently had bad money passed to himself—I got out of the omnibus first.

ANN BURCHER . I am sister of the last witness. I made an arrangement with her, and went in the omnibus to Marylebone-lane—I got out, and saw my sister give the prisoner a half crown—he gave her a shilling—she bit it, and the prisoner wished to get it from my sister, but I shouted out to her not to give it him—I said to him, "Ton are the man that served my sister the same thing yesterday"—I called a constable, and pointed out the prisoner to him—I said, "I charge that conductor with giving my sister two bad shillings"—I was present when the prisoner was taken, when he came back.

HENRY DEAN . I am shopman at an Italian warehouse, in Oxford-street The first witness came for a bottle of French polish on 14th Aug.—she gave me a bad shilling—I bent it, and offered it her back—she said it was no use to her—she paid with two sixpences—I put the shilling on the shelf and kept it apart from all other money—I gave it her again the next day.

WILLIAM CHARLES PRITCHARD . I was at that time in the police—on 15th Aug. I received information from Ann Burcher about the prisoner—she showed me a counterfeit shilling—she made some charge against the prisoner, but I could not understand it at the time—my officer took the prisoner's number, and told him to proceed—I took him as he came back—I found a good deal of good money on him—when he was first charged he made some reply, but I could not understand it; it was about these persons being about to utter it to him—I received this counterfeit shilling from Ann Burcher, and this other from Caroline Burcher.

Cross-examined. Q. Did not this man say that he might have passed it, as he often took bad money himself? A. Yes, he did before the inspector, when the charge was being taken—the first time the prisoner was stopped, was on the pavement, in uniform, and the omnibus stopped—I took the prisoner about forty minutes afterwards, the omnibus having proceeded on it's journey, and was on it's return.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These shillings are both counterfeit, and from the same mould.

(The prisoner received a good character.)


15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-871
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

871. JAMES DANIELS was indicted for feloniously uttering counterfeit coin: having been before convicted: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 29.— Four Years Penal Servitude.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-872
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

872. MIRANDA MICHSHAL was indicted for unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. CLERK and W. J. PAYNE conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN CALLOW. I live in William-terrace, Pentonville, and keep a coal

shed. On 19th July the prisoner came, and had some potatoes, and greens, and other things, which came to 9 3/4 d.—she gave me 1s., and I gave her 2 1/4 d. change—I knew her by her coming to the shop at different times; she lived at Mrs. Coleman's, three or four doors off—I found that the shilling was bad—she came again and gave me a 2s. piece, and I changed it for her—I marked the shilling, and gave it to the constable.

Prisoner. He never said that I gave him the bad shilling, though I live but two or three doors off Witness. I believe you would have given me a shilling again, but you saw that I was looking very hard at you, and then you put the shilling back, and took a 2s. piece out of your purse, and gave it me.

ANN COLEMAN . I reside in Winchester-street, Penton ville. The prisoner lodged with me in July, and the beginning of Aug.—she lodged two or three months with me, by the name of Mrs. Vincent; her brother, a little boy, lived with her—some one lived with her a little while—she left on 7th Aug.—at that time she owed me 8s. rent, but I agreed to take 6s.; she gave me a 5s. piece and 1s.—after she had gone, I examined the 5s. piece; I thought it looked very strange, and it bent—I gave it to the policeman when she was given in charge—it was in my drawer from the 7th Aug. till I gave it to the policeman—I had received the rent from her before that—I do not exactly know that she always paid me good money—I had two bad shillings, but I do not know that she gave them to me.

COURT. Q. You nave no reason to believe that you ever took any bad money of her before? A. No; but I found I had two bad shillings—I put her rent by itself, and found two shillings were bad—I had every reason to believe that the money she gave me was good before that time.

MR. CLERK. Q. When she had paid you your rent before, what did you do with it? A. I put it by itself—I found two bad shillings in the money I had put away—I received that money from the prisoner—I had not mixed any other money I had received from her for rent, and in that I found two bad shillings.

COURT. Q. Do you now say that you believe you had of her two bad shillings? A. I believe I did, but I cannot swear to it—they might have been two shillings that I got from other persons—I put the rent into the drawer, but I lent a person a shilling, and she brought it back before I knew it was bad—I then found one more bad shilling, after the woman had returned it to me—I do not know at all that I received bad money from the prisoner before the 7th Aug.—I gave the crown to the constable this day three weeks.

Prisoner. I lodged with her three months, and always paid her the rent, and she cannot say that I gave her bad money; had she known that I gave her a bad 5s. piece, I think she would have come and told me so; she knew where I went to; I went by her door every day in a cart. Witness. I never saw her—I did not know where she went; she said she was going into the country.

HARRIET PREBBLE . I keep a shop in East-street, Somers-town. On 16th Aug. the prisoner came, between 11 and 12 o'clock—she asked for some tea and sugar, it came to 2s. 0 1/4 d.—she offered me a half sovereign—I could not give her change—she went out and got change—she came back, and put down two 5s. pieces—I said I could not give her change—Mr. Erwood was in the shop—I said, "Perhaps that gentleman can give you change," and he gave her five shillings for one of the crown pieces, and she paid me 2s. 0 1/4 d.—Mr. Erwood went away, returned in a few minutes, and gave

me a bad crown—it was left with me till the following Saturday—there was no other crown there—it was put into a wooden bowl by itself—on the 23rd, the constable came with Mr. Erwood; I gave him the same crown—the prisoner was there then, and I understood her to say that the got the two crowns from the Coronation public house, which is at the top of the street.

Prisoner. I have been in the habit of coming to your shop, and never gave you any bad money before. Witness. You have been in the habit of coming ever since I opened the shop, three or four months—I have changed a half sovereign for you several times.

SAMUEL ERWOOD . I was in the last witness's shop on 15th Aug., when the prisoner was there—she put two crown pieces on the counter—I changed one for her—in ten or twelve minutes afterwards, I found it was bad—it had Dot been out of my possession—I brought it back to Mrs. Prebble—on the 23rd, I met the prisoner in the street, I gave notice to a constable, and took her back to the shop—when I saw the prisoner, she said if I would go to Mrs. Prebble's shop, she would come to me—I said, "No, I have lost two days, I shall lose no more; where you go, I shall go"—she went and spoke to a water cress man, and they went into a public house; they kept me waiting in the street half an hour—I could not see a policeman, or any one I knew—they came out of the public house, and the prisoner, and her rater, and the water cress man went to the station—after some persuasion, the prisoner went with me to Mrs. Prebble s—I asked for the crown piece, and Mrs. Prebble gave it me—the prisoner said she had nothing to do with it, she had not passed it, and she knew nothing about it—she said she had changed the half sovereign at the Coronation, and got the two crowns—I took her to the station, but I would not press the charge; I thought her a respectable person—she was taken on the 25th—I believe Mrs. Coleman gave her in charge—I gave the crown piece to the policeman—she gave her address, No. 93, Alderman-terrace—I went there.

Prisoner. Q. You took one crown piece, and put it on your finger, and threw it up? A. Yes, and I was going to put it in my mouth, and she asked me to look in her mouth to see that she had lost her 'teeth—I put the crown in my waistcoat pocket, and she went off.

Prisoner. Mrs. Prebble said it was her opinion that I did not give it, him; she said I had been there so many times, and did 'not give her bad money, she did not think I gave him that.

COURT to HARRIET PREBBLE. Q. Did you say that you thought she had not given it to Mr. Erwood? A. I said it was very strange that he should walk out of the shop and not know it till so many minutes afterwards—the two 5s. pieces were on the counter, and he took one, and drew it along, and took it and threw it up in his hand—the prisoner had some sweets eating, and Mr. Erwood said to her, "You will spoil your teeth," and she opened her mouth, and said, "No, T won't; look in my mouth."

SAMUEL ERWOOD re-examined. I rung the money, it rung very well indeed.

THOMAS ODY . I am barman at the Coronation public house, which is about 300 yards from Mrs. Prebble's. On 16th Aug., I was serving in the bar from half past 10 till half past 1 o'clock—no one but me was there during that time—I did not give any one two crowns for a half sovereign.

HARRIET PREBBLE re-examined. The prisoner came to me between 11 and 12 o'clock.

THOMAS ODY re-examined. I am sure I was then; all the time I have

stated, and no one served there but me all that time—the foreman is there, and the foreman's wife is there sometimes—she was not there that morning.

Prisoner. When I went, there were two young men there—I went in the room by the side, and said to one of them, "Can you give me change for a half sovereign?" and he said, "Yes;" and gave me two crowns—he took the silver from the back and gave it me. Witness. There was no person there but me all that morning.

COURT. Q. Are you sure that no one had change for a half sovereign? A. Yes—we never give two crown pieces in change for a half sovereign—I know the prisoner—I can positively swear that no man was in the bar but me.

WILLIAM SNOOKS (policeman, S 192). I went to Mrs. Prebble's shop, on 23rd Aug., and took the prisoner to the station—the charge was not pressed against her—I received this crown from Mr. Erwood—this crown from Mrs. Coleman, and this shilling from Mr. Callow—the prisoner was given into custody on the Monday following for passing the 5s. piece to Mrs. Coleman.

SAMUEL ERWOOD re-examined. I do not know the water cress man that she seemed to be associated with—I do not know him, he pulled up at the Coronation public house, and when they came out there they all went to the station.

ANN COLEMAN re-examined. She did not associate with any man that sold water cresses, that I know of—she lived with her brother—there was some man came there at first, but what he was I do not know.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These coins are all bad, and the two crowns are from one mould.

Prisoners Defence. I got the change at the Coronation; if I had given the crown to this young man, I think he would have found it out at the time; the man that I was with comes every Saturday with cresses; I was going with him to meet his brother from Boxmoor, that was what I went to the station with him for.


15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-873
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

873. JAMES MILLS was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. CLERK and W. J. PAYNE conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM HUGHES . I keep the Red Lion, in Wilson-street, Finsbury. On Thursday, 21st Aug., the prisoner came about mid day for half a pint of beer—he tendered me a sixpence in payment—I gave him 5d. change; he took the change and drank the beer, and left the bar hastily—I examined the sixpence and found it was bad—I placed it on a shelf and sent for the policeman, and gave it to him—he returned it me, and I kept it in my possession till the 23rd—on that day Mrs. Perry, my daughter, was in my shop, and she called my attention to the prisoner, who was then outside my window—my daughter had a sixpence in her band at the time—I went out and brought the prisoner in; I said he was the party that passed the sixpence on me on the Thursday—he denied it, and said he had never been in the house before—I am positive he is the man; I gave him into custody, and gave the two sixpences to the policeman.

Prisoner. I had been about the street, and I took the sixpence in the street; I did not know it was bad; I went and called for half a pint of beer, and gave it to the lady—she said to her mother, "Is this the one that was here on Thursday?" she said, "I can't say that it is;" I went out, and this gentleman came after me when I was half way up the street; he said, "You gave me a bad sixpence on Thursday;" I said, "I was never in the house before;" he said, "I think you are the person." Witness. No I did

not, I was quite positive you were the party—three weeks before you were in my house tendering bad money, but you were let go—I was not at home.

MARY ANN PERRY . On 23rd Aug., I was assisting my father—the prisoner came in between 7 and 8 o'clock that evening—I served him with half a pint of beer, he gave me a sixpence which was bad—I told him it was bad, he said he did not know it—I kept the sixpence in my hand, and afterwards gave it to my father—he went after the prisoner—I had seen the prisoner three weeks before—he came then with a bad sixpence—I gave it him back—he was not given into custody then.

THOMAS HARDY (policeman, G 198). I took the prisoner into custody, and received these two counterfeit sixpences from Mr. Hughes—when I took the prisoner, he said, "I am charged with passing a bad sixpence"—I said, "I must search you"—he said, "I have no more money"—I found on him 11s. in silver, good, and 5d. in copper—when he was charged with having been there on the Thursday, he said he had not been in the house before.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These sixpences are both bad.

Prisoners Defence. I was out with my barrow, and took this sixpence; I was going to market at night, and gave this sixpence; I did not know it was bad.

(The prisoner received a good character.)

GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Eight Months.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-874
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

874. ISAAC KNIGHT and ELLEN KNIGHT , feloniously making counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. CLERK and W. J. PAYNE conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES BRANNAN . I was a police inspector, but have retired On 1st Sept I went, in consequence of information, to No. 23, Chapel-place, Coram-street, Russell-square, with other officers—I found the front door open, I proceeded up stairs to the first floor—I pushed the room door in, and found the two prisoners; they were sitting close to a bright, dear fire—on seeing me enter, they both jumped up—the woman picked from the table a quantity of counterfeit coin, and flung it towards the window, which was open—a portion of it fell on the floor—at that time the man threw from his hand a plaster of Paris mould, and commenced stamping on it—he had neither coat, waistcoat, nor hat on, and his shirt sleeves were tucked up—I seized him, and pushed him into a sort of cupboard—he resisted violently, and the female prisoner seized me behind—by the effort of the officers, she was pulled from me, and both the prisoners were taken to a distant part of the room and secured—I picked up a portion of the mould which the man had thrown down, it is for making 4d. pieces—I saw on the mantelpiece eight counterfeit shillings unfinished, of the date of 1820, and three counterfeit sixpences—on the fire I found this ladle, with white metal in it in a fused state—inside the fender this plaster of Paris mould, which is complete, with this counterfeit shilling in it—the get is to the shilling—the mould was so hot I could not hold it—the shilling is of the same date as the others, 1820—I found on the table a galvanic battery, in full play—there was a good groat attached to the wire, and six counterfeit groats were in the deposit place undergoing the process of electro plating—there was a piece of glass with plaster of Paris on it—I saw these two files found on the table, with white metal in their teeth, some plaster of Paris in powder, and some white sand; all the instruments for making counterfeit coin—this battery cylinder was in the cupboard—I took the prisoners to the station—they were asked their names and address; the female prisoner said she was not married.

Isaac Knight. Q. Was the door fastened? A. It was pushed to, I do not think it wag very strongly fastened—I hit it with a sledge hammer and it went open—I found this mould inside the hearth—I found this battery in full play; it was on the table, behind the door—the battery was broken by your violence—here is a substitute for the screw—if I had the solution here, I could make it act in less than a minute.

Ellen Knight. The window was shut down. Witness. It was open when I went into the room—I pulled down the window.

Ellen Knight. You know that your men struck me across the face and you seized me by the hair of my head. Witness. No, I did not—if I had seen an officer strike you, I should have reported him whoever he might be.

Isaac Knight. Q. What was the reason you took us into the back room! A. To prevent your committing further violence.

BENJAMIN BKYANT (police sergeant, G 22). I accompanied Mr. Brannan to the house—I went up stairs with him into the first floor front room—I saw Isaac Knight throw a mould from his hand, and stamp on it—Mr. Brannan seized him, and I assisted in taking him—Ellen Knight seized Mr. Brannan, and was about striking him with her fist—I prevented the blow, and with the assistance of sergeant Brannan I got her away—I took from her right hand a 4d. piece, dated 1849, and at her feet I found a counterfeit shilling, of 1820, unfinished.

Ellen Knight. Q. When the man was holding me down on the bed with the hair of my head, did you not strike me with your clenched fist? A. No, never—it was as much as two of us could do to hold you on the bed, you were so violent.

JAMES BRANNAN (police sergeant, G 21). I was at that house—when I went into the room, Isaac Knight was struggling with Mr. Brannan, and at the same time he was stamping on some plaster of Paris—Ellen Knight was attached to Mr. Braunan behind—I got her away with the assistance of the last witness—she had a quantity of coin in her hand, which she threw outside the window—I went to the window, and on the cill outside I found this 4d. piece, dated 1849, and on the floor inside I found this counterfeit shilling—while I was searching Isaac Knight, he said, "You find anything else against me? you have got quite enough; there is one good thing, you can't hurt her"—Ellen Knight said in reply, "I will do as much as you will do; I am better able to stand."

ARTHUR AUGUSTUS ELLIOTT (policeman, G 104). I accompanied the other officers to the house—I was stationed at the door—I went up, and found two files, one shilling, bearing date, 1820, which was not finished, and one sixpence, which is finished, of the date of 1851

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This mould is for casting shillings, it is quite perfect, and in the mould here is a counterfeit, with the get to it—these eight shillings are counterfeit, and have all been cast in this mould—these three sixpences are counterfeit, and they are from one mould—they are finished—here is a fragment of a mould for casting 4d. pieces—this 4d. piece was cast in this mould—this battery is used for covering coins with silver, here is everything necessary for that purpose.

Isaac Knight. Q. Is this battery fit for use? A. Yes—here are the 4d. pieces which have been in the solution, and are partly coated with silver—here is the 4d. piece which is good, and which has been used to coat them with silver.

Ellen Knight. I am innocent; we had not been in the place a quarter of an hour when this occurred; some one has done it to have us taken.

Isaac Knight. This woman is my lawful wife, I can assure you; we were married at St. Pancras New Church.

Ellen Knight. My certificate was to have been here; cannot that be proved now?



Four Years Penal Servitude.

OLD COURT.—Wednesday, September 17th, 1806.


Before Mr. Justice Williams and the Third Jury.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-875
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

875. JAMES BROWN , stealing, whilst employed in the Poet Office, a poet letter, containing 6 postage stamps and a half sovereign; the property of Her Majesty's Postmaster-General: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 38.— Six Years Penal Servitude.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-876
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

876. JOHN COLE , feloniously wounding Emily Luker, with intent to murder her.—2nd COUNT, with intent to do grievous bodily harm.

MR. RIBTON conducted the Prosecution.

STEPHEN ROBERT LONG . I live at No. 69, Gracechurch-street, and am cashier in the service of Messrs. Capper and Son, linendrapers. I know Howley-place Villas—I went there on 7th July last, about half-past 9 o'clock in the evening, to deliver a parcel—I rang the bell of the garden gate—the servant, Emily Luker, opened it—I gave her the parcel—I saw the prisoner there, he was standing at the corner of the street—he came to the gate—as soon as I had given the parcel he drew out a pistol—I seized hold of it by the barrel—he was then, I think, about two or three yards from the young woman—he pulled the pistol out of ray hand, and I jumped on one side—he then levelled the pistol at the servant's head, and fired—she fell—the prisoner walked off—I went into the house—the girl was taken into the house, and I left—I did not see where she was wounded—I heard the report of the pistol.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did you observe the young man before you rang at the gate bell? A. Yes, he was at the top of the street when I first saw him—I cannot tell how far off that was—I think it was longer than this Court—he was standing there—I had no opportunity of seeing his face, to see whether he was in an excited state or not—I did not hear him say anything when the gate was opened by the girl.

GEORGE MACKERELL (police sergeant, A 349). On 7th July, about half past 9 o'clock, or 25 minutes to 10, in the evening, the prisoner came to the Paddington police station—the station is about four minutes' sharp walking from Howley-place Villas—he knocked at the door, and I admitted him—he said, "I am your prisoner, I am come to give myself up"—he repeated again, "I am your prisoner; I have killed a person, I have committed murder;" at the same time he showed a pistol that he had in his hand—Williams, another constable, took the pistol from him—I took him into the inspector's room—I asked him what he wished to

say to me—he said, "I have killed a person, or I think I have: I fired the pistol, and I saw them drop, arid then I came straight here"—I asked him if it was a man or a woman—he said, "A woman "—I asked him if he knew her—he said, yes, it was Emily Luker, and she lived at No. 9, Howley-place Villas—he said he had tried it three times yesterday, and he had told her before that he would do for her—I sent a sergeant to the house, and found it as he had stated.

Cross-examined. Q. I believe he was in a very excited state when he came to the station house? A. He was excited.

WILLIAM WILLIAMS (policeman, D 141). I recollect the prisoner coming to the station, on 7th July last—he brought this pistol from underneath his coat, and gave it to me—I produce it—I examined it—it had been recently discharged; it was quite warm, and smelt of powder—he said that he had taken life—I searched him, and found on him eight letters, a small quantity of gunpowder, four percussion caps, and several small stones—he said he had fired off enough stones out of this to kill three—I produce the stones, there are five of them—five of the letters are signed by the prosecutrix, addressed to the prisoner, and three are from the prisoner to her—the stones were loose in his pocket—it was after I had found the stones that he made the statement about having loaded the pistol.

Cross-examined. Q. Are those all the stones you found? A. I think those were all—I am not aware of any others—those were all.

THOMAS HASELDINE (police sergeant, D 10). The prisoner came to the station on the evening of 7th July—I heard him state that he had shot some one at Howley-place Villas—I went there, and saw Emily Luker on a bed in the back room, in a very dreadful state—the doctors then wished me to go back, to see if I could find out what the pistol was loaded with—I went back to the station, and said to Williams, in the presence of the prisoner, "Do you know what the pistol was loaded with, bullet, or shot!"—the prisoner answered, "With small stones "—I then went back to Howley-place Villas, and assisted in removing the girl to the hospital—the prisoner was afterwards taken to St. Mary's Hospital, to have the deposition taken—on his way to the hospital lie said he was very sorry, it was entirely her own fault, she had not sent him an honourable letter.

Cross-examined. Q. He was in a very excited state? A. Oh, very.

JAMES ROBERTSON (police sergeant, D 2). On the evening of 7th July I assisted in taking the prisoner to the hospital—on the way there he said he had been waiting about there on Sunday night, to see if he could see the prosecutrix—he made several other remarks.

Cross-examined. Q. Did he not say he had an appointment to meet her on that Sunday evening? A. No—he said he thought he should see her come out, but he did not say he had made any appointment with her—her—he did not say if he had met her on that Sunday he should not have been driven into the state of mind in which he was—he said nothing about an appointment with her on the Sunday evening.

EMILY LUKER . In July last I lived at No. 9, Howley-place Villas. I have known the prisoner for nearly eleven months—in April last he made me an offer of marriage—I did not give him an answer to that—the acquaintance between us ceased on 18th May—he continued to call for nearly a fortnight after that; I saw him several times, but my fellow servant generally answered the gate—I saw him at the gate—no conversation then took place between us with regard to what had happened before—nothing was said about the offer of marriage—I do not remember that he said anything

about it—he wished to carry on the acquaintance—he said he thought we should be happy, and wished to carry on the acquaintance—I said I thought we could not be happy, and I thought it beat that we should break it off at once—when he left me he told me to remember Baker—he did not tell me what he meant by that, but I understood that he meant the young man that murdered the young woman at Southampton, as he had often spoken about it—he spoke about it at the time when Baker's trial was going on; we had conversed about it—we spoke about the newspaper, and things that were in it, and about the trial—on the evening of 7th July I recollect the youth Long calling with a parcel—he delivered the parcel to me—I then saw the prisoner by the gate poet, and he rushed out and fired the pistol at me—I saw him push the boy—I cannot say exactly how near he was to me when he fired the pistol, but I should say he could not have been much further than a yard or two—I heard the report of the pistol—I was struck in the eye, and fell; I was not insensible—I remember being taken into the house—I was afterwards taken to St. Mary's Hospital—I had seen the prisoner the evening before, Sunday, the 7th; I went to let my mistress in from Church, and saw him running towards the gate—I had not made any appointment with him for that evening—I cannot remember how long it was before that I had spoken to him—I am twenty-three years old.

Cross-examined. Q. Where was it that you first met this young man? A. At his master's, Mr. Gill—I went there to see Mr. and Mrs. Gill—that was where the acquaintance first sprang up—a short time after the acquaintance commenced we began to correspond—that correspondence continued for seven months—he always professed himself devotedly attached to me; he always appeared so—we have been out walking together—he has made me one present—he generally behaved with the greatest kindness and affection, both by word and by letter, but I found that he was of a jealous disposition—his proposals to me were proposals of marriage—I do not think I have ever written to him calling myself his affectionate Emily; I do not remember saying so—I kept his company for a little time after he proposed marriage—these two letters (looking at them) are in my handwriting—I remember now that I have called myself his affectionately—I do not know when this letter was written, but I think I had Dot written to him for some time before this; I think it was in the early part of this year—it is addressed from No. 1, Delamere-terrace, Westbourne-terrace, Hyde Park; I was living there at that time—I do not think this letter was written in April; I do not think I wrote a letter to him in April, but I cannot remember—when he proposed marriage to me in April, I did not give him an answer—he told me that he was in a good situation, and could keep me happy and comfortable, and that he would do his best, and devote his life and his energies to keep me happy and comfortable as a married woman—I did not give him any answer.

MR. RIBTON. Q. After the offer of marriage was made to you, do you recollect whether you wrote to him? A. Yes, I wrote one letter after I gave him my denial; I wrote a letter of denial to him—I should say that was nearly a month after the offer of marriage—these letters were written before the offer of marriage—I never promised to marry him—at the time he made me the offer in April, he asked me to consider it—I did take time to consider, and then wrote the letter; I told him first—on 18th May I told him at the gate that I wished to break off the acquaintance—I told him that I found him to be of a jealous disposition, and I thought we could never

live happily together if that was the case, and I wished to break off the acquaintance.

ANNE WINTER . I live at No. 8, Howley-place Villas; I am a single woman. I recollect the day this transaction occurred—on the sunday before, I saw the prisoner there, between their gate and ours, walking to and fro—I saw him there about 9 o'clock—I stood and looked at him a few minutes, I cannot say how long; I saw him for a few minutes, but I saw him several times in the course of the evening, but only merely a few minutes at a time—he was walking up and down.

GEORGE MOSELEY . I am shopman to Mr. Charles Heed, a pawnbroker, On 5th July I sold this pistol, I believe to the prisoner, but I will not swear to him.

Cross-examined. Q. You have no doubt about the pistol? A. No; I can swear to that; it has got my private mark on it.

ALFRED PAYNE (policeman, D 235). I recollect the evening that the prisoner came to the Paddington station—he produced the pistol, and said, "I am your prisoner"—I was locked up with the prisoner during that evening—he said he did it, that he was determined to do it, he was determined to take her life; that it would not have happened if she had sent him an honourable letter—I said it was a bad job—he said he should have been very sorry if he had hurt the young man that was there, but he did not think he could have done it, for he pulled him away with his left hand, and fired with his right—he said he bought the pistol in Chapel-street, but he did not know at which shop, that he put three charges in it, that he saw her fall, and he came away.

Cross-examined. Q. He was in a very excited state all the time? A. He was, all the time I was with him; he was more like a madman than a sane man all the time I was with him.

EMILY LUKER re-examined. About a month or six weeks before this occurred, we had a supper at my master's house, to which the prisoner was invited—I did not invite a young man, a butcher, to the supper; he called I there, and he staid to supper; he came to see a fellow servant of mine—that young man was not paying his addresses to me, but to my fellow servant—there was an angry feeling between the prisoner and me with respect to that young man.

MR. RIBTON. Q. Was it after that that you gave him the denial A. Yes; and told him about his being of a jealous disposition; the supper was on 12th May, and on the 18th I gave him a denial—the young man was not paying his addresses to me, but to my fellow servant's sister.

JOSEPH HENRY PROSSER STAPLES . I am house surgeon at St. Mary's Hospital The prosecutrix was brought there in the beginning of July last—I was called down stairs, and found her in the waiting room lying on a couch—her face was covered—I uncovered it, and found it very much blackened, and there was bleeding from the right eye—the face was also very much swollen—she was removed into the ward—I afterwards examined the right eye—it was destroyed, the iris was protruding; the eye itself was completely destroyed—there was a lacerated wound over the outer part of the orbit, above—the bone was bared—it was such a wound as would have been inflicted by stones of this description tired from a pistol—I considered it a dangerous wound at the time—she has been under my care nearly up to the present time—she has completely lost her eye—I cannot say that she is out of danger yet, she might have a relapse.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you in making your examination of the parts, discover any stone, or fragment of stone? A. No, I did not.

Q. A discharge of powder so close to the face of the girl would cause the same injuries without any atones at all, would it not? A. It must be very close; no, I do not think it would—it would not—the periosteum would not have been denuded from the bone, unless it had been touching the face—if the pistol had been touching the face, it might hare done so—supposing that the pistol was close up to the face, and then discharged, the appearances I observed might be caused by powder alone, without any stone being in the pistol.

MR. KIBTON. Q. Do you think that at the distance of two or three yards the powder alone could have inflicted a severe wound of that sort? A. Certainly not—if the pistol had been touching the akin, the bone would very probably have been denuded, but I cannot say that it would; certainly not at the distance of a yard.

JOHN GRAY . I am an M.D., of the University of Edinburgh, and live at No. 1, Howley-place, nine doors from where the prosecutrix lived. I heard the report of the pistol as I was reading in my own room—I went out into my front garden to see what it was, and a woman came in a great hurry—I went to see the young woman; I found her lying on a bed bleeding profusely from the eye and the forehead—I examined it; I found the integuments severed from the frontal portion of the bone, and falling over the cheek, and a small portion of the bone exposed—the eye itself was burst and gone—it was such a wound as would have been inflicted by stones of this description fired from a pistol—I should say it could not have been caused by powder alone; you might have had a contused wound, but not the integuments dragged from the bone—I-should think powder could not have done that.

COURT. Q. Suppose that a stone had struck the face, would it have lodged there, or gone away? A. It would depend upon circumstances—the pistol must have been fired very close to the head, or she would have been killed; if it had been a few yards from her she would have been killed; in fact, so near must the pistol have been to her, that a great portion of the powder even did not explode—it is possible that the stones might have been fired from the pistol, and have struck the face, and then dropped, on account of the close proximity to the face—there would be no windage, and there would be no momentum; if it had been at any distance it would have gone into her brain—the pistol must have been very close indeed.

(The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was read at follows: "I am extremely sorry that I injured her; my mind and feelings were too wounded, I could not master them; I did not know what I was doing.")

MR. SLEIGH called

GEORGE GIBSON JACOBS . I am a nurseryman and florist. I have known the prisoner since Feb. last—I knew him in Covent-garden market for a year or two before, but I have known him more particularly since Feb., and until the time this took place—he has always been an amiable, well-conducted, moral young man; honest, sober, and industrious—he was in my employ—as I came here voluntarily, I think there is one thing that I ought to state.

COURT. Q. Are you going to speak of what you know of your own knowledge A. Yes, it relates to about the time when the butcher was invited to take supper at the house—I was not present then, but from that time up to the time of this occurrence, the prisoner was not like the same man—I

set him to do something to some verbenas to frames, and he smashed the frames and the lights, and I believe he had not his proper senses; and during that week he demanded four different arrangements of wages of me—all my men said that he was turned cranky, and I am firmly convinced that he had not his proper senses at the time.

(William Gill, nurseryman, in whose employ We prisoner had been for two years, also deposed to his good character).

GUILTY on the 2nd Count. Aged 23. Transported for Twenty Years.

Before Mr. Baron Bromwell and the First Jury.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-877
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

877. GEORGE THOMAS, alias Richardson , and HENRY HILLYER, alias Anderson , stealing, from a post letter, an order for the payment of 76l. 17s. 6d.; the property of the Postmaster-General.—Other COUNTS, for receiving, and varying the manner of stating the charge.

MESSRS. BODKIN and POULDEN conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN GRAY STEPHENS . I am an auctioneer, in King-street, Covent-garden. On Monday, 21st July, I had occasion to make a remittance to York—I drew this cheque (produced)—it is not in the same state now as it was when I drew it—I had crossed it "& Co., bankers;" that has been erased—I put the cheque into an envelope, and put it where letters are intended for the post, in my office—I addressed it to Messrs. Backhouse and Son, York—this was between 1 and 2 o'clock in the day—(The cheque was for. 76l. 17s. 6d. on Coutts and Co.)

THOMAS WHITE . I am a porter in the employ of Mr. Stephens. On 21st July, I remember taking a letter to the poet office—I took it from the mantelpiece in the office, between 1 and 2 o'clock; I did not read the address—that was the only letter I took in the middle of the day—I took and put it in the post office at Mr. Daniels's, nearly opposite Mr. Stephens's.

JULIA WARRAND . I am housekeeper to Mr. Daniels, who keeps a receiving house for letters in King-street, Covent-garden—I sometimes attend to assist in that—I remember, on 21st July, making up the dispatch for the 2 o'clock collection; there were thirty-two letters—I tied them together in a bundle, and put them on the counter—it is a stationer's shop—at the time I was making up the bundle a man came in, and asked if there was any letter at our place directed to J. H.—such letters are kept just behind one of the counters—there are two counters in the shop—I had to look for such a letter, and that slightly took off my attention from the bundle of letters—I did not find the letter, and told him so—he then asked for the second edition of the Times to look at—I gave it him—whilst he was looking at it, a woman came in for a penny postage stamp, and another man came in close behind her; he wanted a "London Journal"—he took it himself from the counter, paid me, and went out; the woman left after him—the first man was still standing there; he did not remain half a minute after the other had gone out—about seven minutes after these persons had left the shop, I missed the bundle of letters—I had not had any other customer in the shop in the interval—a Mr. Cutler came in before the two men came—the first man was there while Mr. Cutler was there—Mr. Cutler came in with a letter, which he wanted me to include in the bundle—I did so—at that time the bundle was safe—after that was done, Mr. Cutler went away, and then the other went—I do not remember either of those men that came in, so as to speak to them.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE (for Hillyer). Q. I think you pointed out a person at the police office as being like the man? A. Not being like

him; I said he was more like him than any one else in the place—the prisoners were then present—the man I referred to was not one of the prisoners—thought him more like the man that entered the shop than either of the prisoners—I do not nay that I believe either of the prisoners to be the persons that came into the shop.

MR. BODKIN. Q. How long after the letters were lost was it that you were at the police office. A. About thirteen days, I think.

COURT. Q. The man that was pointed out was neither of the two prisoners? A. No, the man who came into the shop had black hair, to the best of my knowledge—I mean the first man who sat down, and his hair hung down straight at the side, and he had black clothes on; of course, that alters the appearance.

EDWARD ROGER CUTLER . I am a clerk in the Westminster Fire Office, King-street, Co vent-garden. On 21st July I went to the receiving office, io King-street, about 2 o'clock—I saw Miss Warrand there making up the letters tor delivery; I went there to poet a letter—I took my letter into the shop, and asked her to put it up with that dispatch, as it was a particular letter—I saw a man in the shop sitting in a chair, near the counter—I identity Hillyer as the person—I believe him to be the man—I was in the shop about a minute and a halt I had a pretty good view of him; he was at my right hand.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. Do you say that the man was in the shop when you went in with the letter? A. I believe he was either in the shop, or came in while I was there; I am not certain—he was not reading, he was sitting still—I cannot say whether he had a newspaper in his hand, he was not reading one—I did not notice the colour of his hair particularly—he had a lightish coat on, or something similar to what he has on now—it was rather a light coat, not a dark one—I feel positive it was not a black one—I believe Hillyer to be the man I saw sitting there—I will not undertake to swear positively that he is the man.

COURT. Q. Had he got black hair hanging down on each side? A. No. not so as to attract my notice; he might have had; I cannot any whether he had or had not—he had darkish hair, about similar to what he has now, in my opinion—I first saw Hillyer afterwards in a cell at the Guildhall police office—there were six or eight persons there, standing in a row, and I was desired by the officer to say if I recognised any person standing there, and I picked him out as the person I remembered sitting in the shop—the other persons in the row were persons of about the same class as himself.

FREDERICK DAVIDSON . I live at No. 8, York-terrace, Albany-road, Old Kent-road, with my father and mother; I am sixteen years of age. On Tuesday, 22nd July, I was at Charing-cross, near Buckingham-court, about 12 o'clock in the day—I saw the prisoner Thomas there—I had seen him before, several times—I had seen him in the Albany-road; he asked me if I wanted a situation—this was by the Admiralty—I had gone on there from Buckingham-court—he stopped me there, and asked me if I wanted a situation—I said, "Yes "—he asked me if I would go and change a cheque—I said, "Yes"—he asked me if I knew Coutts's—I said I did—he said if I would make haste, he would get me a situation, and peak as if he had known me a long while—he mentioned the name of Mr. Robertson—he pointed over the way to Whitehall-place, and said it was where the door was open—he then gave me the cheque in a piece of paper, and I put it into my pocket—I then left him—he told me I was to get it short; that I was to take it to Mr. Robertson, his governor, if he was not there, and give

it to him—he said short meant notes—he pointed out the place where I was to take it, in Whitehall-place, No. 22, I understood him—I then went to Coutts's, I presented the cheque to one of the clerks there—they kept me there about a quarter of an hour, and then the clerk wrote on the cheque "Ordered not to pay "—he, afterwards, gave it to me again—I took it, and went out, and went to Whitehall-place, where the prisoner had pointed out—I knocked at the private door, and a footboy came to the door—I inquired for Mr. Robertson, and he said he did not know any such name—I went next door, there was a door open, and a lot of names written up in the door way—I did not see the name there, so I came out, and crossed over the road to No. 2, thinking that might be the place—I went in there; there was a man having his dinner in the hall, and I asked him, and he said I was to go over to No. 22—I went over there, and saw Thain, the detective officer—I did not know him at that time—I asked him if he knew a Mr. Robertson—he said, "It is about a cheque, is it not?" and I said, "Yes sir;" of course, thinking he was Mr. Robertson—I gave the cheque to Thain, and he and I went into No. 22 to inquire—they said there that Robertson bad been dead eight years—I was afterwards with Thain for eleven days looking after Thomas—I saw him at the corner of Fleet-street on 5th Aug., about half past 4 o'clock in the afternoon—Thain was with me at the time, about two or three yards off—Hillyer was with Thomas—I went and spoke to Thain about them, and they went on, and went into an ice shop in Fleet-street—they were there two or three minutes—Thain told me to keep out of their sight—I kept away as much as I could—Thomas came out first, and went towards Temple Bar; that was when I saw him—Hillyer came out a little while afterwards—Thomas stopped all at once when he came out—I think he saw me—Hillyer came up to him—Thain kept beckoning me to keep back—I saw them talking together—Thain then came up and took them into custody—this is the cheque.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH (for Thomas). Q. You had never spoken to the man you met before that day? A. No—I never made a mistake about the identity of anybody—I never went up to speak to any person, thinking that I knew them, and found out that I was mistaken—it was about six months before 21st July that I had seen Thomas—that was not the only time I had seen him; I had seen him before several times, I cannot say where—I do not remember in what neighbourhood I had seen him—I gave a description to Thain of the person who gave me the cheque—I gave that description on 22nd July, the same day I had been to Coutts's—I walked about with Thain eleven days looking for the man—Thain did not stop any other person during those eleven days—I did not point out a person in the street, and tell Thain I thought he was like the man, nor did Thain go up and look at him, and watch him; nothing of the kind—I first noticed Thomas in Fleet-street, he passed me before I saw him—Thain and I did not go on beyond him after I saw him, and allow him to pass—when he was in the ice shop, we passed the shop, and looked in—Thain did not go into the shop—I saw Thomas in the shop, I had a good look at him—I was at the distance of St. Bride's Church when he came up—that was not in order that I might be certain; directly I saw him, I knew it was him—I did not tell Thain while he was in the shop that that was the man; I told him before that, before he went into the shop—I cannot say how far Thomas walked before he went into the shop after I told Thain he was the man; the ice shop is just before you come to St. Bride's Church—I let him walk some distance after I recognised him, before he got to the ice shop—he

was two or three minutes in the ice shop—he walked about fifty yards from the ice shop before Thain took him into custody—Thain and I were then discussing whether he was positively the man, or not; he asked me if I was certain, and I said I was positive it was him—I first said I thought he was the man, and then, after looking at him two or three times, I said I was positive.

MR. BODKIN. Q. You say you cannot remember any particular place where you had seen this man before; but on which side of the river was it? A. I cannot say where I have seen him—I have seen him on the Surrey side, the side we live on, and I have seen him at other places—when I first saw him in Fleet-street, I did not see which way he was coming; I saw him at the corner, by the Sunday Times—I communicated to Thain directly after I saw him—I said, "There is the person that gave me the cheque "—the first thing I said was, "Here they are;" they were then going up Fleet-street—they were further up Fleet-street than I was—they had gone past me when I had spoke to Thain—Thain and I followed them, and they went into the ice shop—I do not know whether the ice shop is the second or third door from the office of the Sunday Times; they went in, and were out in a few minutes—as to anything else, I left it to Thain to manage—I told Thain that I had no doubt it was the man at all—I now state positively, upon my oath, that that is the person.

JOHN EARLES . I am a clerk in Coutts's banking house, in the Strand. On 22nd July this cheque was presented to me by the witness Davidson—it was then in the state it is now, except that it is more tumbled—I kept him there about ten minutes or a quarter of an hour—I then wrote something upon it, and returned it to him—there is an erasure upon the cheque; it is evident now, but at that time it was not so evident; it is admirably done; I did not discover it at the time; I did not hold it up to look, or else perhaps I should—Mr. Stephens, the drawer, is a customer of ours, and had money at our bank.

CHARLES THAIN . I am a detective officer. I was desired to go to Coutts's bank, in the Strand, on 22nd July—I found the lad Davidson there—upon his leaving the bank I followed him—I had no communication with him before he left the bank—I do not know that he was aware that anybody was following him—he went along the Strand, down Charing-cross, and turned into Whitehall-place—he went to a house in Whitehall-place, and from that house to another, and then another—he was carrying something in his hand—I was standing on the pavement in Whitehall-place at this time—after he had gone to three houses; he asked me if I knew the name of Robertson—I said I did not—I said, "Is it about a cheque that you have been to Coutts's bank about?"—he said, "Yes, it is," and he gave me the cheque, which he had in his hand—he then gave me an account of how he became possessed of it, and gave me a description of the person from whom he said he had received it—after this it was arranged that he and I should go about the principal streets to look for this person, and we did so until 5th Aug.—in the afternoon of that day we were at the corner of Fleet-street and Bridge-street, on the south side of Fleet-street, and the lad drew my attention to the two prisoners—he said, "That is the party that gave me the cheque"—in consequence of what he said, I followed them—they went along Fleet-street, and went into an ice shop, ten or twelve doors up—they remained there about three or four minutes—Thomas came out first, and turned towards Temple-bar—he stopped a little, and then Hillyer came out, and walked towards St. Paul's—he afterwards turned round, and joined Thomas

—I do not know where the lad was when Thomas stopped; I told him to go away out of sight, but to keep sight of me—when Hillyer joined Thomas I saw them talking together—upon that I went up and took them into custody—I said, "Gentlemen, I wish to speak to you over at the station house"—they said nothing at that time—I took them over to the station—I then told them that I charged them with stealing a bundle of letters of letters from the Post-office receiving house, in King-street, Covent-garden—Thomas said, "I know nothing at all about it"—Hillyer said, "I am sure I don't; I should like to see my solicitor"—the station sergeant asked them their names and addresses—they refused to give them—I think they said, "We decline giving any address "—I afterwards got from them the names of George Thomas and Henry Hillyer—they did not give any address—I searched Thomas, and found on him a duplicate, a key, and a penny; I did not search Hillyer—I learned from Davidson that his parents lived at No 8, York-terrace, Albany-road, Camberwell—I found Hillyer's residence to be No. 24, St. Mary's-square, Kennington—Thomas's mother lives at No. 2, Paragon-place, New Kent-road—I have not been there—that is about ten or twelve minutes' walk from the Albany-road—it is in the same neighbourhood.

ELLEN HARRINGTON . I live in St. Mary's-square, Kennington. I have known the prisoner Thomas about twelve mouths—I knew him by the name of Harrington—I lived with him during that time, by that name—I have known Hillyer the same time—I knew him by the name of Thesiger—he was called Harrington also; I never heard him called Hillyer during the time I have known them—they have been frequently together at my lodging and at other places—I saw them together on the morning of 5th Aug.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. Did you say that you lived in St. Mary's-square? A. Yes; I do not live in John-street, Blackfriars-road, now; it was to John-street that the prisoners came—that house is not a brothel; it is a respectable house, so far as I know—of course, there are lodgers there, men and their wives—I had no other visitors besides Thomas—I had no difference with Thomas, nor any quarrel of any kind.

MR. POULDEN. Q. How long did you live with him in John-street? A. cannot tell exactly; I have lived there twice, at different times—I left there, and went to St. Mary's-square, on the Saturday after they were taken—all the time I lived with him it was in John-street.

MICHAEL HAYDON . I am a detective officer of the City of London. On the day the prisoners were taken into custody I searched Hillyer—I found on him a memorandum book and a pocket handkerchief—I said to him, "What is this, before I open it?"—he said, "It is a memorandum book of my own, with a few private memorandums in it"—I afterwards found where Thomas lived, and went to the place—it was No. 27, John-street, Blackfriars-road—I found Ellen Harrington there—I searched there, and found a white hat, two caps, a photographic portrait of himself, thirteen letters, and thirteen duplicates—I afterwards found that Hillyer lived at No. 24, St. Mary's-square.


THOMAS— GUILTY of Receiving (Thomas was further charged with having been before convicted.)

GEORGE HODGES (police sergeant). I produce a certificate from Mr. Clark's office—(Read: "Central Criminal Court; Robert Richardson, Convicted, May, 1854, of larceny as servant; confined nine months)—I was present at that trial; the prisoner is the person.

GUILTY. Aged 19.— Six Years Penal Servitude.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-878
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

878. GEORGE THOMAS, alias Richardson , and HENRY HILLYER, alias Anderson , were again indicted for stealing on 14th July, out of a post letter, a 10l. Bank note, the property of the Poet Master General: other COUNTS, for receiving.

MESSRS. BODKIN and POULDEN conducted the Prosecution.

MARY BROOK . I live at No. 180, Regent-street On 14th July last, I wrote a letter to a Mrs. Hughes, and directed it to Gravesend, Kent. I enclosed in it this 10l. note (produced)—I sealed the letter, and took it to Mr. Grigg's, the post receiving house, in Regent-street—I saw a young man in the shop who registered my letter—I received this receipt—it was about 2 or 3 o'clock in the day—the note was quite clean at that time, it was a new note from the Bank of England, there was no writing on it—I had received it from Messrs. Hoare and Co., my bankers, shortly before—I had other notes with consecutive numbers in my possession.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. How do you know that to be the same note? A. From the date, and the No. 89210—I noticed the date and Dumber when I enclosed it.

JOHN ALFRED VESEY . I am assistant to Mr. Grigg, who keeps the receiving house, in Regent-street—I was called into the shop on 14th July, about two or three minutes to 3 o'clock, to register a letter—I saw Miss Brook there; it might, perhaps, be four or five minutes before 3 o'clock, just about that time—I received a letter from her, and registered it—I gave her a receipt for it—I wrapped the letter in a bill, and laid it on the desk—I do not know who it was addressed to—this is the receipt I gave—I see it is for a letter addressed to Mrs. Hughes—I then returned to my dinner.

WILLIAM GRIGG . I assist in the Post-office receiving house, in Regent-street, kept by my uncle. On 14th July, shortly before 3 o'clock, I remember Miss Brook coming in with a letter which she wished registered—I called down Mr. Vesey, who was at dinner—I saw him receive a letter from Miss Brook, register it, and put it on a desk on the counter; he then left the shop—it was then approaching to 3 o'clock, which is one of the periods at which the letters are collected—I was about to begin to take the letters out of the box, when a young man came in and asked for a sheet of note paper—I served him, and he paid me and left the shop—I asked him if I should put it in a piece of paper for him—he said no, he had a piece of blotting paper himself—I believe the prisoner Thomas to be the man—after he had left, a second man came in; that man had on a white hat—I believe Hillyer to be the man—he asked the price of a match box in the window—I told him, and showed it him—he looked at it a little, and said he did not want to buy it that day—he then went out of the shop—I got the letters out of the box and took them to the desk to tie them up, and I then found that the registered letter was gone—I called Vesey down, and stated what had happened—between the time of Vesey going away after placing the letter on the desk, and my missing it, I do not believe any person had come into the shop but the two men, who I believe to be the prisoners—I have no recollection whatever of any person coming in the mean-time—I should say I missed the letter from four to five minutes after the men had gone—it took me two or three minutes to take out the letters, and I immediately went with them to the desk, and missed the letter.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Your impression is, that Thomas is the man, is that so? A. Yes—I do not undertake to swear positively to him.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. What is your age? A. Sixteen and a half—I have been with Mr. Grigg about three years and three months—I

had never seen either of the men before—I saw them afterwards at the police court—a policeman did not take me there, I went—it was at Guild-hall when they were under examination—they were standing in the dock—they were not pointed out to me—I was brought to look at them in a room—they were mixed with other persons, some of them not so young as the prisoners, and some differently dressed—some of them, I should say, were working men, they wore fustian jackets—I did not notice their dress much—none of them were exactly like the prisoners—I cannot say what day it was—I believe it was the day they were taken—I took notice of the white hat when the man came into the shop, and of his face too, a little—I looked in his face when I told him the price of the match box—I do not take particular notice of persons who come and ask questions and go out again—I might know some of the persons who came in yesterday; I should not swear to them—I never was quite positive about these men, I only believe it; they are like the men.

MR. BODKIN. Q. When you found that the letter was gone, did you then recall to your recollection the features of the men who had been in the shop? A. Yes—I believe I told Vesey that one of them had a white hat on.

WILLIAM MINTER TODD . I am a clerk in the Bank of England. This note was brought to the Bank on 14th July, from a quarter to 4 to 4 o'clock—there is some writing on the back, it was there when I paid it—I entered it in my book—here is the entry: "Jolly, paid in gold, 10 sovereigns."

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. You did not see anybody write the endorsement? A. I did not.

GEORGE WHITE . I live at No. 52, Great Coram-street, Russell-square My father is a solicitor—I know Hillyer—he was formerly a clerk in the same office—I knew him by the name of Frederick Harrington Williamson—he left the office on 7th Aug., 1855—he was a fellow clerk of mine for nineteen weeks—I have seen him write very frequently—I believe the endorsement on this note to be his writing.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. When were you spoken to on this matter? A. Four or five weeks ago—I was asked if I knew the writing on this note—Haydon came to our office—I was asked if we had a clerk in our office of the name of Williamson at any time, and I said, "Yes," and I was asked if that was like his writing—I firmly believe it to be his writing, I have seen very much of it—I last saw him write about 6th or 7th Aug, 1855—before I was asked if it was like Williamson's writing, my attention was called to the fact of his being in custody—I knew he was in custody.

WILLIAM ROBERTSON . I am a clerk in the office of Messrs. Halls, solicitors, of Boswell-court. I know Hillyer—he was a clerk in our office for about a year and a half—I knew him by the name of Williamson—I have frequently seen him write—I believe the writing on this note to be his.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. How long is it since you saw him write? A. About twelve or fifteen months—I am so positive of its being his writing, that I consider it to be written quite in his style, the "J" and the "4" in particular, I should say—he used to write a law hand with us, but sometimes after this style, the up and down style—I think there is a similarity between this style and his law writing—his law writing is rounder than this.

MR. BODKIN. Q. You sometimes saw him write on other subjects? A. Yes—I can trace the character of his writing in this—he had a careless way of writing when he wanted to write anything different from the law writing.

MICHAEL HAYDON . I am a detective officer, of the City police. The prisoners were taken into custody on another charge, on 5th Aug.—I searched Hillyer—I found a small book on him—he said it was a private memorandum book of his own—I find entries of money in it—on 14th July there is an entry of 5l.—it is a diary of 1856, and the entry on 14th July is, "196," meaning the 196th day of the year, "5l."—I proceeded to Hillyer's lodging, No. 24, St Mary's-square, Kennington—I searched a room there, pointed out to me by Clara Buttery—I there found a pocket book containing a number of duplicates, one of them for a case of instruments pledged on 9th July, 1856, in the name of George Jolly, No. 4, Tatchbrook-street, Piccadilly—I also found this white hat (produced)—I endeavoured to find a person of the name of Jolly, at No. 4, Tatchbrook-street, Piccadilly—I could not find any such person.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. Does it not seem that the man had been keeping an account here of all the monies he received during the year? Q. Yes, it does, except for three months—the amounts are regularly brought forward.

CLARA BUTTERY . I live at No. 24, St. Mary's-square, Kennington. I know Hillyer—he lived there—I remember Haydon coming to search a room there—it was my room—Hillyer and I lived together.


HILLYER— GUILTY of receiving.

(Hillyer was further charged with having been before convicted.)

JAMES HAND (City policeman, 360). I produce a certificate from Mr. Clark's office—(Read: "Central Criminal Court, March, 1806; James Anderson, Convicted, on his own confession, of larceny; Confined three months")—I was present at that trial—Hillyer is the person there mentioned.

GUILTY. Aged 24.— Six Years Penal Servitude.

(There were other indictments against the prisoners).

Before Mr. Justice Williams.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-879
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

879. JOHN COOPER , forging and uttering an order for the payment of 28l. 7s.; also, an order for the payment of 16l. 10s.; with intent to defraud the Royal British Bank: to which he


Recommended to mercy by the prosecutors.—six Years Penal Servitude.

NEW COURT.—Wednesday, September 17th, 1856.


Before Mr. Recorder and the Fifth Jury.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-880
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

880. GEORGE EVERETT , stealing 1 clock, value 10l.; the goods of the New Zealand Company: and 1 bag, value 2s.; the goods of Thomas Cadbert Harrington: having been before convicted: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 20.— Four Years Penal Servitude.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-881
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

881. WILLIAM PATRICK , stealing on the high seas, on 10th May, 150lbs. weight of rope, value 2l. 7s.; 1 net, 1 kettle, and other articles, value 5l.: also on 2nd July, 12 fathoms of rope, value 10s.; also, on 23rd Aug., 140lbs. weight of rope, value 10s.; the goods of Robert Hewitt and others, his masters.

MR. DOYLE conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES ASHMORE . I am a seaman, in the employ of Messrs. Hewitt, of Barking. I have been in the employ about six months—during that time I served on board the Enterprise, which is one of Messrs. Hewitt's smacks—the prisoner was the captain, and, besides that, he was commodore of the fleet—he commanded all Messrs. Hewitt's vessels—they may have twenty or thirty vessels—I sailed from Barking, in the Enterprise, on 26th April—in the course of that voyage we were fishing off the Skilling, which is off the Dutch coast—it is on the high seas—I remember the boat of the Industry coming to our smack one Monday morning—Mr. Bullen, the master of the Industry, came in it—the Industry is not one of Messrs. Hewitt's smacks—I do not rightly know who is the owner of it, hut Mr. Bullen is the captain—I have seen him on the Industry—the prisoner had gone on board the Industry on the Sunday evening, and he came on board the Enterprise, in Mr. Bullen's boat, on Monday morning—they ordered as to get a pair of bridles out, and pot them into the Industry's boat—bridles are ropes which fasten on to the fishing nets—they are about five-inch ropes—they are for trawling the nets—they may be about eighteen fathoms long—we got them out of the vessel's stern, and coiled them into the Industry's boat—they were new—after that we put the upper nets into the boat, by the prisoner's order—that is the upper part of the fishing net—one part goes on the ground, and the other over it—the net was in the fore part of the vessel—we got it, and put it into the Industry's boat—the boat was let go, and went away to it's own vessel—the prisoner stayed on board his own vessel—Ryder, of the ship Tiger, had come before this transaction with Bullen—when Ryder came I had orders from the prisoner to unreef the main halyards, and reef a new pair—the old main halyards were put into the Tigers boat by the prisoner's order—we were at sea eight weeks—in the fore part of the voyage Ryder had a bucket and a tin kettle—the prisoner was on board the Tiger, and called out for us to bring a lead line—our boat took the lead line to him, and came back—I did not go with the boat; two apprentices went with it—I did not see them deliver the lead line—the boat went with it, and came back without it—the Tiger was not far from us, forty or fifty yards—the boat returned, and came on board our own vessel, and then Ryder's boat came for a bucket and a tea kettle—the bucket was new—the tea kettle was half worn—I did not hand them into the boat, but I saw it done—they went into Mr. Ryder's boat, and the boat went on board the Tiger.

COURT. Q. The rope, and upper net, and the bucket, and the tea kettle, were on different days, were they not? A. Yes.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. What were you? A. I was foremast man—there were eight persons on board besides the captain—the bridles were given about 1 or 2 o'clock, one Monday morning—the Tiger was not one of Mr. Hewitt's vessels—we were all on deck at that time—st times one or two remain on watch, and the others are at rest—we take watch and watch—we were all on deck at that time—we have on our vessel received ropes and tackle, and little things, from others of Mr. Hewitt's vessels, when we were in want of them—if any accident or a gale blew away any ropes, or other things, other vessels supplied us, but we have never had any from strange vessels—when we have been away from Mr. Hewitt's vessels, we have received assistance from a strange vessel—we unreefed the old hal-yards, put new ones on our own vessel, and gave the old ones away—we had one other kettle on board—the one that we gave away was not new; it had been used—the Industry was on our starboard side—I think it came from

Yarmouth—I think the Tiger was from Hull—we are entered in a register when we sail from Barking—we were in sight of land—we might have been twenty miles from it on the Monday morning when we gave the bridles; I cannot rightly say—we were not in eight of land when we gave the halyards—that was about the middle of the voyage—we had done fishing when we gave the bridles.

COURT. Q. Were there other bridles left on board? A. We had another pair, which we were working.

MR. DOYLE. Q. Was the Industry in any distress when these were given? A. Not that I know of—bridles and nets would not be wanted by a ship in danger of going down—we have received assistance from other vessels when we stood in need of it—while I was on board the Enterprise we did not receive assistance from strange vessels—we got a pair of bridles from one of Messrs. Hewitt's vessels.

COURT. Q. On what occasion was that, had you lost your bridles? A. No—I do not know how we came to get another pair—we went on board and got them—we put them down—we did not use them—we had two pairs on board before—we then had three pairs in all—sometimes, in bad weather, our nets are carried away, and we lose them—we had no bad weather before we sent these bridles to the Industry—I do not know whether she had lest her bridles—sometimes we lose all our bridles; more often in bad weather than in fine weather—we had had no bad weather that voyage.

JOHN JOSEPH CLIFTON LUCAS . I am apprenticed to Messrs. Hewitt, on board the Enterprise. I remember the voyage last April—I remember the prisoner being on board the Tiger, he hailed us for a lead line—I took it on board the Tiger—he then gave us orders to get a new bucket, the tea kettle, and some twine—I put them on board the Tiger, which was not one of Mr. Hewitt's boats—I remember the prisoner going on board the Industry, that is not Mr. Hewitt's boat—it was the second night before we came away from the fleet—he was on board two or three hours; he returned between la and 1 o'clock, and Mr. Bullen came with him—on that occasion we got up two bridles and a net, and gave them to Mr. Bullen by the captain's order—I was there when the halyards were sent, and helped to reef them—they were about half worn—it was not bad weather at that time—I cannot tell whether the Industry was in any danger, I did not go on board.

HENRY CHALK . I was a seaman on board the Enterprise. I remember the voyage which began last April—I do not remember anything being given to Ryder, of the Tiger—I was on board when Mr. Bullen came—I assisted in putting a pair of new bridles and nets on board his boat—they are things that are given away to vessels in distress, if they are accounted for to the owners—a cutter goes away every morning.

COURT. Q. I suppose sometimes these vessels help each other? A. Tea, and the things are accounted for the next morning, if they are not Messrs. Hewitt's vessels—we send a cutter away every morning to Billings-gate, and if anything is parted with, it is the captain's duty to account for it by that cutter.

MR. DOYLE. Q. Were any bridles lent to any vessel? A. Yes, to one of Messrs. Hewitt's vessels, the Elizabeth, and that vessel returned them again when she came from sea.

Cross-examined. Q. Was there a captain to that cutter? A. Yes, and that captain takes dispatches to the owners.

COURT. Q. Besides borrowing and lending of and to your own vessels, when a vessel of another owner is in distress, you lend to it? A. If we lend articles to any vessel not our own, we account for them—if small things are wanted by other vessels, we lend them, and the owner is expected to account for them.

HENRY EARL . I am storekeeper and foreman to Messrs. Hewitt and Sons, of Barking. The prisoner has been in their employ about two years and a half as captain of the smack Enterprise—he drew stores, which consisted of ropes, nets, provisions, and so on—it was his duty to use them for the vessel—he had no authority to sell, or dispose of them, or to give them to any person, that I am aware of—the Enterprise returned last on 28th Aug.—I overhauled the stores then—she returned from her April voyage about 22nd June—the prisoner did not then account to me for any store supplied to Bullen—he did not give any account of lead line, or a tea kettle, or anything supplied to Ryder, of the Tiger, to my knowledge—he did not account to me about any halyards—I overhauled the vessel this last time—I did not find all the stores on board that ought to have been there—it would be his duty to return by the cutter what he had done each day—if he had done that, he would not have rendered any other account—there was no occasion for it—it was his duty to send that account in writing of what he had let anybody have—a dispatch is sent home to the owner every day; they bring the fish and all the news every day.

ROBERT HEWITT . I am a smack owner, at Barking. I am managing owner of the Enterprise, the prisoner was captain—he had no authority to make away with the stores of the vessel, except to another vessel in distress, that could not do it's business without assistance, or that was in danger—in the event of his giving assistance to a vessel, or sending stores, it would have been his duty to send me an account the next morning; those were his orders—I had personally given such orders to him previous to his going the last voyage; not only to other vessels, but I told him not to supply them even to my own vessels, unless they were in special distress—the value of a pair of bridles would be about 1l. 17s. or 1l. 18s.—if one pair were bought separately it would cost 3l., but we employ our own ropemakes—I state what it would cost us—an upper net would cost about 2l. 12s. 6d., a lead line 5s. 6d., a draw bucket about 2s. 6d.—I gave orders to my foreman to see what stores were deficient.

Cross-examined. Q. How long has the prisoner been in your service? A. From Feb., 1854—he was captain of the same vessel before I bought the vessel then.

COURT. Q. Did you ever challenge him with the stores being missing? A. No—I suspected him, but I scarcely could suspect him, as he was receiving more pay than any other captain—I thought it could not be true that I had heard—he was with me seven days at the end of the voyage, before he went out again—I had conversation with him every day—I never received from him any account of his having disposed of any stores—I received reports in writing from him every day—I never received any report by word of mouth of any stores disposed of—I did not then ask him about any stores being missing during that week, or have with him any settlement—I asked him if there were any accounts to give me respecting other property—he said, "No"—I said any account, such as our own vessels asking for anything to be sent to them, or anything of that sort—when I asked him if there were any other accounts to give me, he said, "No"—I first became aware of anything being deficient on the day after the vessel arriving from

her last voyage, 28th Aug.—the stock of the stores was not taken when she came home in June—the vessel was not properly searched by the person that we employed—it was done this last time, to see if what the men had stated was true—when the prisoner came home in Aug., I told him I charged him with making away with the stores—he said that he never had; he had let one pair of bridles go, but nothing else—I said, "You have been making away with the stores of the vessel, according to what I hear the men say"—he said, "Never, but one pair of bridles"—I said, "The men say you have made away with a great many things"—he said that they told lies about him—he did not say why he had parted with these bridles—I gave him into custody the same evening—I had received daily reports in writing from him—there might have been a day or two missed, but they were called daily reports—they were destroyed—I read them nearly all—my brother or my father read the rest—I am not able to pledge my oath, that in some of them these articles were not mentioned, but if they had, they would have been seen—my brother or father are not here—we all three manage the business—we are partners.

JURY. Q. What wages had the prisoner? A. Twelve shillings a week for his wife, ten shillings a week for himself; paid when he came back, and 5 per cent, on the gross receipts of the fish.


15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-882
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

882. RICHARD SLATER , stealing 1 watch, value 3l. 10a. and 1 guard chain, value 3l. 15s.; the goods of John Whybrow, in the dwelling house of Louisa Whybrow: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 21.— Confined Six Months.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-883
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > with recommendation; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

883. EDWARD TUCKER, EDWARD STIRLING , and WILLIAM HURLEY , stealing on 1st Aug., 6 reams of paper, value 7l. and 7 cwt of paper bags, value 17l.: also, 26th Aug., 73lbs. weight of paper bags, value 2l.; the goods of Cresents Robinson, the master of Tucker. 2nd COUNT, charging Stirling and Hurley with receiving the said goods.

MESSRS. BODKIN and ROBINSON conducted the Prosecution.

CRESCENS ROBINSON . I am a wholesale stationer and paper bag manufacturer, No. 79, Upper Thames-street I have one partner—Tucker was in our service, he was foreman of the bag department—it is part of our business to make paper bags for grocers and other tradesmen—we are in the habit of sending the bags when made, and sometimes the paper before they are made, to printers to have our customers names put on them—when the paper or bags are sent to the printers, there would be on each parcel of bags or paper, a label with our names on it, and the quality of the bags—here is a parcel (produced) where the label has been torn off—sometimes the paper would be sent to the printer previous to making the bags, and then he would have to print the customer's name on them, which would be sent to him on a piece of paper—Stirling was a printer we were in the habit of employing—Tucker would not have authority to dispose of any paper to Stirling, except for the purpose of printing—when he sent out any paper or bags, it would be his duty to make an entry both of the bags and paper in a book which was kept for that purpose—from information, I went on 24th or 25th Aug., to the premises of Messrs. Dando, in Aldermanbury—I was there shown a large quantity of paper and bags—I recognised them to be mine—some of them are here—this is one of the bundles of paper—here is part of my label on it—it is partly torn off—I also saw four reams of blue cartridge paper, which I particularly recognised by the mill number, and the progressive

number on the label—it had very lately come into my stock—this would be under the charge of Tucker—in consequence of what I heard at Mr. Dando's, I went to Mr. Edis, a grocer, in Aylesbury-street, Clerkenwell; I there found a quantity more of my bags—I got some information from Mr. I Edis, and gave direction to an officer who was with me to watch ray premises—on the evening of 27th Aug., I saw Hurley in custody of the office at Bow-lane station—I did not hear Hurley say anything, but in consequence of what the officer told me, I went to Stirling's, in Labour in Vain-yard, Fish-street-hill—when I got there, I asked Stirling about Hurley, he said he did not know such a man—I said, "It is no use your concealing it, we have the man in custody, and he says he has sold on commission for you"—he said that if I would come on one side he would speak to me—I went on one side with him, and he said, "I must confess I have done wrong; it has been going on for a long time, it has much troubled me, and made me drink a great deal;" and I think he also added, that he had thought of speaking about it before—I asked him who gave him the goods, how he got them—he said that Tucker had given him them, and that they were put in the truck when other goods were brought away in it—the officer took Stirling, and we then went to my own warehouse—it was about half past 7 o'clock when we arrived—we found Tucker at the Swan public house; I called him out, and told hint he had robbed me—he said, "No, I do not"—I said, "You know some one that has"—he said, "No, I do not"—I told him it was no use his saying that, I would take him to a man that said he had—he was taken to the station, and Stirling was brought in to show him—the superintendent asked him to point out the man that gave him the bags—he pointed to Tucker, and said that it was him—Tucker made some reply, I do not exactly remember what—these blue bags are 52s. a cwt.—it was blue bags that had been sold that morning—I saw this invoice—the amount is 12l. 18s.—the value of the goods which were sold for this 12l. 18s., is nearly 20l., the price we should sell them for to grocers—we could not make these bags for 12l. 18s.

ROWLAND DANDO . I live at No, 46, Aldermanbury, and am a wholesale stationer and bag maker. I pointed out to Mr. Robinson a quantity of bags and paper, I think it was on 24th Aug.—I had that paper from Mr. Edis, of Aylesbury-street—my suspicion was not excited by the lowness of the price—the bags were sold to me at about my cost price of them—I examined the paper, and saw something which induced me to go to Mr. Robinson—I paid 12l. 18s. for that paper, and gave Mr. Edis a cheque for it.

EDWARD EDIS I am a tea dealer and grocer, at No. 22, Aylesbury-street, Clerkenwell. I know the prisoner, Hurley; I have been in the habit of buying bags of him—in the latter end of Aug., I sold Mr. Dando a number of bags and paper, for which he paid me 12l. 18s.—I cannot tell how long I have been in the habit of buying goods of Hurley—I have an invoice dated in March, but I have bought of him before that—I should think for six or seven months I have bought bags and paper of him—they were common bags that I bought of him at first, not such as these—I have bought bags of him for several months—I have not bought paper of him till lately—he gave me several invoices—here is one on 27th Aug., 19s. 6d. for 28lbs. of common bags, and 45lbs. of blue.

CRESCENS ROBINSON re-examined. The value of these would be about 39s.

EDWARD EDIS re-examined. Q. Was there an address written on this paper? A. Yes; it was written by Hurley, "No. 41, Baldwin-street, City-road;" this is Hurley's address—I saw Mr. Robinson on the night before 27th

Aug., and I gave him some information—on the 27th Hurley came and brought the goods mentioned in this invoice, 19s. 6d.—the officer had been waiting in my shop all the day, and he saw Hurley come across the road—I said, "That is the man," and the officer walked out of my shop and walked in again—Hurley said, "Can you buy a ream or two of royal hand?"—I do not think he said what weight it was.

APAM M'DONALD (City policeman, 13). On 27th Aug., I watched outside Mr. Robinson's premises, in Upper Thames-street—about 11 o'clock I saw a truck there, and Hurley, Stirling, and another man; the truck was loaded, and Hurley assisted in unloading it—I afterwards saw the track being loaded again from the warehouse by some boys—I saw a lad throw some paper from a door on the first floor—I saw Tucker in the first floor at the door, or window, where the paper was thrown out—it was bags of this description—Stirling wag then over at the public house, nearly opposite—Hurley was in front of Mr. Robinson's premises, near the truck—after the track was loaded, Hurley went to the public house to Stirling—I afterwards saw two men and a boy come from the warehouse, and go to the public house—I cannot say whether one was Tucker—I did not see who they were—the track was drawn to Goswell-street—Hurley went with it all the way—Stirling went part of the way, and turned back—I took Stirling on the evening of the 27th—I told him Hurley was in custody, and he had said that he received the paper from him—Stirling said, "That is correct, he did receive it from me"—he said that he had received five parcels from him that day—he afterwards said that he was not present when Hurley took them away; and that there was an understanding between them that he was to come and fetch them that day—I asked him how he accounted for them—he said they were put in his truck by Tucker, and with the knowledge of Tucker, not as goods; but there was an understanding between them, and they were to share the proceeds—this was on the way to the station—I then went to Mr. Dando's, and received this paper.

CHARLES OGBOURNE (City policeman, 26). I produce five parcels of paper bags which I took possession of at Mr. Edis's, on 27th Aug.—I was watching there when Hurley arrived—I saw Mr. Edis pay him 19s. 6d.—I told him I was an officer, and asked him where he got the paper from—he hesitated some time, and asked why I wanted to know—I told him I did want to know—he then told me he brought them from Mr. Stirling's, in Labour in Vain-yard, Fish-street-hill—I told him I should take him into custody on suspicion of having stolen property in his possession—he said that there was no necessity for that, if I would go along with him to Stirling, he would satisfy me—I took him and the property to the station—he was there asked his address; he first of all said that he could not tell—he then said that he lodged at a lodging house somewhere in the neighbourhood of Westminster, but he could not tell the number, nor the name of the street—he Ald not give any further address—I have since been to the address he gave to Mr. Edis, No. 45 Baldwin-street—I found that he was known by one of the females who lived in the house, but he had never lodged there—I have not been able to find any place where he did live or lodge—I then went to Upper Thames-street, and took Tucker—when he was brought to the station Stirling was brought in—he was told that he had made a statement, and if he thought proper he could make that statement again, and point out the man from whom he had received the goods—he pointed out Tucker—Tucker did not make any answer—I was watching Mr. Edis's shop on the 26th—I did

not see Hurley there; I saw him on the 27th, carrying some parcels, and the boy, Coyer, was carrying the rest.

Hurley. Q. Did I not tell you on Thursday morning where I lived? A. No, I have no recollection of it—I am satisfied if you had told me, I should have put it down to ascertain it.

RICHARD COVER I shall be fourteen years old next January—I have worked at Mr. Stirling's about nine months—I know Hurley—I have seen him at Mr. Stirling's shop several times—on Wednesday, 27th Aug, I assisted Hurley in taking five parcels of bags to Mr. Edis—they had come to Mr. Stirling's on the 26th—they were brought in Mr. Robinson's truck—I and Mr. Stirling's little boy brought them—Mr. Stirling directed me to go to Mr. Tucker—I went to Mr. Robinson's, and saw Tucker—he gave me the five parcels—before he did so he tore part of a label off—this is one of the parcels that he tore it off of, and one of the parcels I took on the 26th—Hurley took them the next day, and he tore off the remaining part of the labels—Tucker tore off a good deal of the labels, and Hurley tore off more—when I brought them to Mr. Stirling, he saw them, but he was not present when Hurley tore them off—on 1st Aug. I saw Tucker at Mr. Stirling's, and heard him tell him that Hurley had been there the day before—before that, I had been sent by Mr. Stirling with a message to Tucker—Mr. Stirling gave me a piece of paper with pencil marks on it and told me, if the boy was there, not to let him see me deliver the message to Tucker—he told me to tell Tucker he wanted to see him at the public house in Brick-hill-lane—I delivered that message and the paper to Tucker, and he went towards the public house—I have seen Mr. Stirling take paper from Tucker's about five times.

Stirling. Q. What time did I give you that paper? A. It was before 1st Aug.—I cannot say whether it was in Aug.—you did not send any paper away then, to my knowledge—you did not send any away by me.

GEORGE GRAINGER . I am warehouseman to Mr. Robinson It was Tucker's duty to enter all bags that he sent out to any customers—if he sent out five parcels of bags on the 26th to Stirling's, it would be his duty to enter them in this book—here is no entry since the 18th—Tucker would have no authority, under any circumstances, to tear off any labels—I have seen Hurley at our warehouse and also at Stirling's, on several occasions—when he came to our warehouse, he merely asked me if Stirling was there—recollect seeing Hurley there on the 27th—on that morning Stirling Tucker, and Hurley went to the Swan public house.

Tucker. Q. When you saw me, did I go alone? A. You followed these two men, with another of our men—very probably you went to have your dinner, it was about 1 o'clock—all this blue paper that is here was kept on your floor—it is not usual to tear the labels off to my knowledge—it is usual to keep the labels, to show the size and quality of the bags and paper—it was usual for you to go to Mr. Stirling's about the work, when articles were wanted.

WALTER BLANDFORD . I am in the service of Mr. Robinson. I know Hurley and Stirling—I have frequently seen them in company—Stirling has frequently come for work—I have not seen Hurley on my master's premises, I have seen him and Stirling together outside—I have seen Tucker with them, on about two occasions, at the Swan.

Tucker. Q. Were you in the room to assist me in the bag department? A. Yes—I helped you look these orders out for the printer—I was

frequently there alone, when you were not present—I recollect Mr. Grainger telling you, on the Saturday, that Stirling was to have no more work—there was no more work given to Stirling after that, which was on the Saturday before 27th Aug.—I cannot tell whether the work given him that day was 2,000 flour bags—I tore the labels off once or twice, by your direction, because, when you pretended to send one quality that was ordered, you sent another, if we had not got that quality—I never knew you to give more work than was ordered—I know almost all the orders—I do not keep the books—I have marked the orders myself with you—you cannot be accountable for any one taking goods from the other room—when I saw you with Hurley, it was at dinner time on both occasions.

MR. ROBINSON. Q. No goods were sent to Stirling after the Saturday? A. Not to my knowledge—no goods ought to have been sent to him after that—I do not know of Cover receiving any on 26th Aug.—there was no other boy except myself in that department—I was there at one time, and saw Cover deliver a message and a paper to Tucker—that might be three or four weeks ago, or more—on one or two occasions I, in obedience to Tucker, have torn off the labels—these were only small orders—on one occasion the papers were printed, and the other, plain—I have been to see Tucker in Newgate, and remained with him half an hour or twenty minutes.

Tucker. Q. Was any other person present when you saw me in Newgate? A. Yes, the gentleman that opens the gate—I applied to him to let me see you—I said who I was, and put my name down.

Tucker's Defence. I never gave any paper out, without it was for orders, to Stirling or any one else.

Stirling's Defence. Hurley has had no paper from me.

Hurley's Defence. These bags I received from Mr. Stirling, and sold to Mr. Edis; the paper that the invoice is of, I did not receive from Mr. Stirling; I received the bags from him, but not the paper.

(The prisoner Stirling received a good character.)

TUCKER— GUILTY of stealing. Aged 24.— Confined Eighteen Months.

STIRLING— GUILTY on 2nd Count. Aged 36.—Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor.— Confined Fifteen Months.

HURLEY— GUILTY on 2nd Count. Aged 34.— Confined Eighteen Months.

THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, September 17th, 1806.


Before Michael Prendergast, Esq., and the Fourth Jury.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-884
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

884. WILLIAM COLLINS , indecently assaulting Francis Bugsey, John Gambler, and John Morrah. MR. RYLAND conducted the Prosecution.

GUILTY . Aged 35.— Confined Twelve Months.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-885
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

885. THOMAS NUTTER , burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of Thomas Bevan, and stealing therein 16lbs. weight of tea, 3lbs. weight of tobacco, 3 hams, and 3l. 19s. 6d. in money; his property.

MR. PAYNE conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS BEVAN . I keep a chandler's shop, in Lambeth-street, White-chapel. On Friday morning, 5th Sept., at 1 o'clock, my shop was safe—there were two raw hams and one cooked one there, also some tea, tobacco,

and the contents of the till—two of the hams have since been shown to me—about 6 o'clock in the morning I found the passage from my shop door to the house blocked up with butter tubs—the shop is part of the house—the door was locked, and the tubs placed against it—it is the side door, which comes from the shop into the house—the street door was open—it was fastened securely at 1 o'clock—the bar of the front shop window was strained, the shutter taken down, and a large square of glass removed, so that any man could get in—my house is in the pariah of St. Mary, Whitechapel—I have not found the other things; those I have lost are worth 14l. or 15l.—I do not know the prisoner at all.

Cross-examined by MR. MAC ENTEER. Q. What other articles did you lose? A. Tea, tobacco, a cooked ham, and money—there were no stars on the glass, it had been cut with a diamond, I suspect—we cook ham, and sell it over the counter—I purchase my hams of Mr. Pitt—I may have had a much greater number of him—I had had them about four days—they are of the same kind that I usually buy of him—if I had been out walking, and seen the hams on a neighbour's counter, I could have recognized them as mine—they are Irish hams, and one of them is cut short at the knuckle, which I never saw before, and am sure that they are never cut in this fashion—hams are generally the same, but this one was quite different—(Two hams were here produced)—this ham is cut shorter than usual—I cut the strings out myself—in placing the hams down on one another, this mark of a bone was made upon this one; that is unusual, as cheesemongers gene rally put bran between them, but I did not, as I was going to cook them I know that they are Irish hams by the curing—I am certain of them, and can take upon me to swear that they are mine—I am always in the habit of examining them; I had four, and these are two of them—if the other two had been stolen, I could have identified them—I have been in the habit of purchasing Irish hams from the same source—I should be able, on any occasion, to get Irish hams—if a ham was brought to me to-day, and brought to me again to-morrow, I could recognize it—I was in the shop till 1 o'clock.

COURT. Q. What day of the week was it? A. Thursday; I know it, because my wife was confined that day, and I had to go in to get a bundle of wood—I had expected her confinement for a day or two before—we were going to cook on Friday.

MR. PAYNE. Q. You had examined them the day before, previous to their being put by for boiling? A. Yes—the hole in this ham even fits the bone where the other has laid upon it.

MR. MAC ENTEER . Q. If one ham is put on the top of another, is not that the result? A. Yes, but it is not a customary thing to do so.

COURT. Q. Had you noticed that particular mark on this particular ham? A. Yes.

JAMES HOARE (policeman, H 178). On Friday morning, 5th Sept., at a quarter past 3 o'clock, I saw the prisoner, in Fashion-street, Spitalfields, carrying these two hams on his shoulder—I stopped him, and asked him where he had got them from—he said that he had brought them from his father, Mr. Nutter, of No. 7, Bell-lane, and when he got to the station he said that he gave three half crowns each for them; he afterwards said that he had been in the country to see his friends, and they had made him a present of them—I went to No. 7, Bell-lane, but could not find his father.

Cross-examined. Q. Did the prisoner appear to have been drinking? A. There was a slight appearance of intoxication about him—he did not

resist me when I went up to him—I at once took him—he was confused when he told me about his father—I only found these two hams upon him—he was searched after he was charged—Bell-lane is 300 or 400 yards from where I saw him—it was not light, hut there were gas lights—the prisoner did not tell me the name and address of the friend in the country whom he had got the hams from, therefore I could not inquire into that—he was going a cross road from Brick-lane, which leads right from Whitechapel.

COURT to THOMAS BEVAN. Q. Where is the mark? A. This is it (Pointing to it)—there is not the same mark on a hundred hams; cheese-mongers do not place them as I do, but I was careless in placing them, and this one received this mark.

GUILTY of larceny. Aged 25.— Confined One Year ,

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-886
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

886. WILLIAM STILES, THOMAS BARNES , and WILLIAM LAWRENCE , stealing 5 bushels of oats, value 12s.; the goods of Henry Green and another, the masters of Barnes and Styles.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES BRETT (City policeman). On 16th Aug., about 9 o'clock in the morning, I saw Lawrence; he had a pony and chaise, and drove from Upper Thames-street to Rutland-wharf, Mr. Green's warehouse—I watched him, as I had done previously, and saw him back his cart under the archway of Mr. Green's warehouse—I then saw Barnes go on to the mill floor, and shoot through the ceiling three parts of a sack of corn—I saw him take the sack, wheel it up to the post, and empty it through the shoot into another sack that Stiles was holding underneath; he then fetched another sack partly rail, and shot the contents of that also through the shoot into the same sack, which made the sack full—Stiles then tied it up, lowered it into the cart, and Lawrence got into his cart and received it—another man in Messrs. Green's employ then came out of the mill, which is another part of the premises, and brought a sack half full, which he handed up to Lawrence in the cart; his name is Randall, he is not to be found—ten minutes afterwards I saw Lawrence at a public house in Earl-street, with two other men, not the prisoners—after they had been there five minutes they came out; he turned his cart round, and went up Rutland wharf again, with two more men of Mr. Green's—when he bed got some distance, I and May stopped him—I said, "We are police officers, and I want to know what you have in those sacks "—he said, "Only some sweepings, Sir, from Messrs. Green and Sedgwick's"—I said, "Let me look at it"—he opened the sack, which was half full, and I found it contained sweepings mixed with split beam—he then opened the other sack, and that I found contained oats, but the mice had got into it, and apparently eaten it—I said, "What did you give for it?"—he said, "I gave 3s. for the sack of oats, and 2s. for the men to get some beer with, and 2s. for this bit of stuff," meaning we smaller sack—I said, "Who did you pay?"—he said, "I gave Stiles 5s., and I gave Randall four sixpences"—I then took him to the station—about a quarter past 10 o'clock went to Messrs. Green's, and Stiles was sent for into the counting home—said to him, "We are police officers: what account have you to give of the sacks of corn which you have sent away by the man Lawrence?"—he said, "I only sent away a sack of sweepings, for which I received 3s."—Mr. Green asked Stiles, in my presence, if he had received any other money—he said, "No"—he asked him if he had received any money for beer—we said, "No"—Barnes was afterwards sent for—I told him that we were police officers, and said, "You have been assisting to send away some sacks

of corn by Lawrence this morning?"—he said, "Yes, I sent away a sack of what I thought was sweepings "—Mr. Green gave him into custody.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. How long was it after you saw Lawrence take the corn, before you went back to Stiles? A. About 9 o'clock we took Lawrence, and Stiles about a quarter past 10—the oats were not shot from the floor where Stiles was—he put a rope round the mouth of the sack, then pushed it off, and Jet it down by the crane.

HENRY GREEN . I am one of the firm of Green and Sedgwick, corn merchants, of Rutland-wharf. Barnes and Stiles were in our employ for some years; we placed great confidence in them—we have sometimes sweepings in our warehouse—the prisoners have a right to sell them, and pay the proceeds to the clerk, which is entered in a book—we had some oats in our warehouse, no person had any right to sell them—I have seen this corn and sweepings; we had such corn in our warehouse, and I believe it to be our's—the sack of oats was bitten by rats, but was of considerable value—the oats found in the sack are worth 12s., and the sweepings, 3l.—this is the book (produced)—here is an entry on 16th Aug. by Stiles, "1 sack of sweepings, Lawrence "—the clerk does not come till 9 o'clock, and when he comes, Stiles would hand over the money to him—we had split beans in the warehouse; he had no right to sell them as sweepings, not to the extent that they are there—here is more than ordinary, there should be only one fourth—my impression is that these must have been split beans placed purposely there—there was scarcely a handful of sweepings among the oats, it was scarcely to be called sweepings—I told Stiles that Lawrence had been taken to the station house, and that some oats were found in his possession, which I examined—he first said that they were sweepings and were on the floor, but I told him I had seen them, and examined them, and should give him in custody of the police; he pleaded very hard for forgiveness, regretted that things should come to such a pass as that, and begged roe to look over it—he said that Lawrence gave him 2s. for beer—I then told Barnes that Stiles was taken into custody on a charge of stealing the corn—he first said that he did not deliver anything; then he said, "Only just a little;" then he said that he delivered more, and pleaded hard for mercy—they had both been in our employment sixteen or seventeen years.

Cross-examined by MR. THOMPSON. Q. Was there, afterwards, a sack of sweepings turned out on your premises to compare with these taken from Humphrey's cart? A. There was—it was not nearly as good as those in Lawrence's cart, nothing like it—we kept some of the corn loose on the floor, and some in sacks—we keep from 50 to 1,000 quarters in bulk—in this sack some of the grains were affected by the mice, and some not.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Is it not very easy to separate that from the good corn? A. No—the oats, if fully sound, would have been worth 3s. or 3s. 3d.—there were five bushels in the sack—3s. is the uniform price of a sack of sweepings.

COURT. Q. Do the men have the benefit of the sweepings? A. No—it is not only our's in point of law, but our's by custom—Randall was in our service; he has escaped, I understand; he was with me a day or two afterwards, but I discharged the whole of the men in my employment that night, seven of them, finding they were all in it—they had all been there a great many years—I knew that Lawrence did take wheat from us about three times a fortnight.

DANIEL MAY (City policeman). I went to Lawrence's house, and in an upper room found some corn mixed with sweepings—it was oats, beans, and

other things; six sacks of it—I learned, after he was remanded, that he lived at No. 120, Vauxhall-wharf, but had got a house on Eyre street-hill—I saw his father there.

COURT. Q. What business is Lawrence? A. A fishmonger—there is only a bed room and the shop, where he sells fried fish and oysters—I did not go to Eyre-street-hill, but I sent the cart there with an officer.

Cross-examined by MR. THOMPSON. Q. Do you know enough to tell us whether this is fair sweepings? A. It is like that which was in the cart—it is not better—the oats have a few beans with them—they resemble what we have here now, and there are about six sacks—at the house at Vauxhall-wharf I saw seven pigs and some poultry, which appeared fat.

COURT to HENRY GREEN. Q. How would you suppose they had disposed of the sweepings? A. Generally for feeding fowls or pigs—the police had been watching the premises for six weeks—at the station Lawrence asked to speak to me, and said, "I know I have done wrong; if you will forgive me, you shall never see me at your place again"—he asked for mercy—I told him not to apply to me for mercy, but to the men whom he had deprived of their character, who were honest men previously.

MR. THOMPSON. Q. You said nothing of that when you were examined before the Magistrate? A. Yes, on the last occasion.

COURT. Q. Does the shoot go into the mouth of the sack? A. Yes—my suspicions were excited three months ago, and I mentioned it to the clerk, having observed a larger quantity of sweepings in the book—sometimes, when we are busy, we have a much larger quantity than at other times—this sack of sweepings is worth 1s. 6d.—there are five bushels—the granary opens at 6 o'clock, but the clerk is not there till 9—it excited suspicion, as Lawrence came regularly—the bag of sweepings is worth 5s.—it is the sweeping of the mill, and is fair sweepings—I should not find fault with it.

MR. THOMPSON to JAMES BRETT. Q. I believe you have already stated that in your opinion Lawrence was not near enough to see what was put into the sack? A. I do not believe he could, he was so far underneath the building—I saw the sack brought by Randall; that was fastened up also.

(Lawrence and Barnes received good characters.)


15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-887
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

887. JAMES CLAKK, SAMUEL BROWN , and JOHN PERRY , stealing 43lbs. weight of lead, value 1s.; the goods of George Myers, their master: to which

CLARK PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 37.— Confined Six Months.

MR. THOMPSON conducted the Prosecution.

ALFRED THORNHILL . I live at No. 40, Webber-street, Old-street-road, and am foreman of the works to Mr. George Myers, of Lambeth. The three prisoners were in his employ, Clark and Brown as plumbers' labourers, and Perry as plumber—on 13th Sept. Mr. Myers was engaged in building the Oriental Bank, in Broad-street—the three prisoners were employed there—they were all the men that were employed about plumbing—I was on the watch, and saw them cut off some lead pipe—I could not see which of them it was, but it was one of the three, and the other two must have seen it; they were not above a yard from each other—I then saw them cutting it up into lengths nine inches or a foot long, but could not see which it was of the three—it was new pipe, and those lengths could not be used in the building—Clark beat the pipe with what is called a dresser, which is used in the trade—they next rolled out part of a sheet of lead, which was sent to be fitted to the gutter and flat—I saw them all three rolling it; I am sure of that—

they were in the basement, and I was under the stairs, observing them, proposely—Perry, the plumber, cut the lead, and after it was cut Brown went to see what o'clock it was, and came back and said, "It wants 6 minutes to 12"—I could not observe which of them cut the lead off, as the cellar was very dark, but I saw them unroll it and cut it, and I found the knife afterwards—I saw Perry cut the sheet of lead; he and Clark rolled it up, and, when Brown came and said that it was 6 minutes to 12, Perry and Clark fastened the lead round Clark's body, while Brown kept watch, with the door of the basement in his hand, which leads towards the stairs where I was—they could not see me from that door; I was at the side of the stairs, about ten feet from where they had the lead—Clark and Perry put all the length of pipe they had cut up into the sheet lead; and when they had fastened it round Clark's body, and the bell rang 12 o'clock, Perry walked out—Clark walked after him, and put the key into his pocket—I followed them, and detained Clark and Brown till a policeman was sent for—Perry stood by—I took Clark to the station, and saw the lead found on him.

COURT. Q. Were they opposite the door, or at the further end of the room? A. About two feet from the door, which opens inwards—I peeped over the sides of the banisters—I was in a very dark place; they could not see me—I will take my oath that I saw Perry cut the sheet lead—the pipe was cut first, and, the sheet ten or twelve minutes afterwards.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTOW. Q. You have been away to dine? A. Yes—I am quite sober, I should like my dinner over again—I did not we who cut the pipe, I was in the same place where the sheet lead was cut, and will undertake to swear that Perry cut it; I was never uncertain of that—I could not see who out the pipe, because going down into the darkness, you cannot observe any person until you have been in the dark some time—they were cutting the pipe when I went down, at 25 minutes to 12 o'clock—they were in the light—I came from the top of the scaffolding; they could not see me, and I came down very quietly—there were 120 men at work—Perry and Brown had been at work there five weeks, and Clark about twelve months—it was Perry's duty to lay on the pipes—if they required lead they could cut it off a sheet in the same room, but not off this—this is not the first time I have said that I saw Perry assisting in putting the lead round Clark's body—I said it before the Grand Jury, and this is the second time—before the Grand Jury was the first time—I did not say before that Clark alone fastened the lead round his body, it would be impossible—I may have said that I saw Clark fastening it round his body, without saying a word about Perry—I said at Guildhall that I saw Perry cutting the lead up—the pipe was cut for the waste pipe of a cistern, and they cut it up in this way—the prisoner's business was to lay on the pipes to the cistern—their foreman was Cross, a plumber; after me and the clerk of the works, he would give the prisoners directions—he was not there, he was at the public house—he was there on Thursday, but not on Friday—it was the prisoners' business, if they had nothing else to do, to cut this pipe, but into nine feet lengths—when the bell rang at 12 o'clock for dinner, Clark said, "Jem, who shall take it, you or I?"—Perry said, "Well, we will go, and call for some ale and bread and cheese"—this is not the first time I have said this, I said it before the Grand Jury—I can not swear that but I told you from memory—I cannot say whether this is the first time I have said it—I gave Clark into custody, and Perry and Brown were taken before 1 o'clock at the house where they were to meet—the lead found on

Clark is worth about 17s. and 17s. 6d.—it was after I had communicated with the Police constable at the station that I determined on giving Perry gad Brown into custody.

COURT. Q. Had you seen the lead before? A. Yes, both the sheet and the pipe, in their proper state, a day or two before—the pipe was not required to be cut for anything, it was to lay on to a cistern—cutting it would make it unfit for that purpose.

FREDKRICK STEPHENS (City policeman, 142). I took Clark to the station, and found this 43lbs. of lead (produced) fastened under his trowsers in front, suspended by a new belt, which went through the lead—he has the belt on now, to fasten up his trowsers—here are the pieces of pipe, inside the sheet lead; I should think nobody but a plumber could do it up in this way—it is all new pipe.

Cross-examined by MR. THOMPSON. Q. You found 9 1/2. and a knife on Brown; what sort of a knife was it? A. It was strong enough to cut lead—this is it (produced.)

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Would it not be impossible to cut the lead with this penknife? A. They only cut it a little way, and then tear it—I could cut it with this blade—I think this blade, which is made for filing the finger nails, would cut the lead—I found Brown, Perry, and two or three more men at the public house just by, drinking ale.

PEERY— GUILTY . Aged 31.


Confined Six Months.

OLD COURT.—Thursday, September 18th, 1856.

PRESENT—Mr. Justice WILLIAMS; Mr. Baron BRAMWELL; Mr. Ald.


Before Mr. Baron Bramwell and the Second Jury.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-888
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Not Guilty > unknown
SentenceMiscellaneous > sureties

Related Material

888. RICHARD GALE JAMES MUMFORD, GEORGE REEVES, EDWARD LAYTON HOPPER, JOHN BROWN, JOHN HOPPER, FREDERICK YOUNG, AUGUSTUS HENRY FREDERICK, GEORGE BINET , and STEPHEN MOYSE , were indicted for unlawfully conspiring, by molesting certain workmen in the employment of George Frederick Young and others, to force them to depart from the said employment—Other COUNTS, varying the manner of stating the charge.

MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL, with MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE and MR. HOLL, conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE FREDERICK YOUNG . I am in partnership with Sidney Young and Charles Magnay—I carry on with them the business of ship builders, and have done so for forty years. In the early part of this year we had, I suppose, about 300 or 400 men in our employment—we had regular times of work, and for going off work—in the summer time the men commenced work at 6 o'clock, and worked from 6 till 8, then from half-past 8 till 11, from 20 minutes past 11 till 1, from 2 to 4, and from half-past 4 to 6 o'clock, making altogether nine hours and forty minutes—having had considerable experience in these matters, I found that those intervals were of the greatest possible inconvenience, and productive of the greatest possible evils, and

the subject of universal complaint on the part of all—practically we found it so.

Q. In consequence of that, did you issue a notice, altering the times, the effect of which would be, to give ten minutes more to the men in reality, but to prevent those constant intervals of cessation from labour? A. I sanctioned the issue of that notice by my partners—this is the notice—(Read: "To the workmen employed in this dockyard. We have long been sensible of the great evils resulting from the unnecessarily frequent interruptions of work, under the existing division of the hours of labour. While it is a source of continual dissatisfaction and complaint on the part of the shipowners, it is certain that the greatest real injury falls on the workmen themselves, most of whom are employed by the job, and any waste of time is consequently a deduction from the Amount of their earnings. This waste does not result from too many hours being devoted to rest and refreshment, but from the too frequent cessations from work, which causes indirectly but inevitably a serious loss of time, without conferring any benefit whatever on the workman. And finding that the system does not prevail in any port in Great Britain, except that of London, and that even there it is exclusively confined to the private dockyards on the river Thames, and cannot therefore be alleged to be necessary for health or comfort, we hereby give notice, that from and after the 3rd of May next, the hours of work, which are at present in this establishment, from 6 o'clock to 8, 2 hours; from half past 8 to 11, 2 hours 30 minutes; from 20 minutes past 11 to 1,1 hour 40 minutes; from 2 to 4, 2 hours; from half past 4 to 6, 1 hour 30 minutes; in all, 9 hours and 40 minutes; will be regulated as follows: Commence work, 6 o'clock; breakfast, 9 to 10; allowance, none; dinner, 1 to 2; tea, none; leave work, half past 5; total, 9 1/2 hours: and from 2nd Nov. to 2nd Feb., commence work, daylight; breakfast, 9 to 9 3/4; allowance, none; dinner 1 to 13/4; tea, none; leave work, dark. The workmen will perceive that by this alteration no addition is made to the number of working hours per day, which will in future be shortened by ten minutes, and is less than at any port included in the statement below, while the extension of breakfast time to one hour will enable very many who reside at a distance from the premises to enjoy that meal at their homes, instead of being compelled to resort to the public house. They will also, we doubt not, duly estimate the great advantage of leaving work at an earlier hour, by which their opportunities for improvement, comfort, and recreation will be greatly extended; and on the whole we trust their good sense will prove to them, that the change we thus announce, while promoting that order and regularity which employers and employed in every establishment ought equally to desire, is calculated in an especial manner to advance the interests, physical and moral, of the working classes, whose social improvement we are ever anxiously desirous to promote. The bell will be rung five minutes before, and the gates be closed punctually at the above times, and the gatekeeper has strict orders not to admit any workman except at the above hours of admission. Young, Son, and Magnay, Limehouse Dockyard, April, 1856."—To this was appended a statement of the hours of work at fourteen out-ports, showing that at none were the hours of work less than ten hours, that at none was there any morning allowance, and, with two exceptions, none in the afternoon)

Q. What is the date of that notice? A. It appears to be dated April, 1856, but without a specific day—I know that those notices were pretty generally circulated—after that notice had been circulated, there was a paper

circulated by persons purporting to be connected with the Shipwrights' Union, and signed by Augustus Frederick.

HENRY WILLIAM TUSON . I am a printer, in business in the Commercial-road. These two bills (produced) were printed in my establishment—they were printed by the direction of a gentleman of the name of Frederick, one of the defendants, and he paid me.

GEORGE FREDERICK YOUNG (continued). We issued a second address, dated 13th May—this is it: ("Limehouse Dockyard, May 13th, 1856. We have intimated to our workmen that on and after 17th instant we purpose to amend the division of the hours of labour in this establishment, so as to assimilate it in principle with that maintained in every important outport of the country; at the same time that it reduces in a slight degree the period actually devoted to labour by the existing practice. We very deeply regret to find that a measure which we conscientiously believe is calculated equally to benefit our workmen as ourselves, has met with what appears to us the most unreasonable opposition from the shipwrights of this port. The measure is briefly to be described as the substitution of two intervals of one hour each, and cessation from work half an hour earlier than heretofore, in place of four intervals, one of one hour, two of half an hour, and one of twenty minutes; a system which has acted prejudicially against the general interests of our trade, is fraught with the most pernicious effects to many of the workmen, and must be more or less detrimental to all of them. This substitution is founded on the practice pursued at Aberdeen, Dundee, Leith, Sunderland, Newport, Liverpool, White haven, Greenock, and also at North-fleet; in every one of which the actual time for work exceeds from half an hour to an hour, that which we propose it should be here. We have offered to refer the decision of the desirableness of this change to the arbitration of any impartial person or persons on whose judgment the shipwrights and ourselves can mutually rely; and so anxious are we, frankly and fairly to test the question, that we now, moreover, thus publicly intimate our readiness to submit the case to such a tribunal, even though the shipwrights decline to commit themselves to abide by it's issue. We hereby give notice, that we are prepared to enter into an engagement, guaranteeing employment to shipwrights, for twelve months from the date hereof, on terms either by the job or the day, equal to the highest rate paid in the other established dock-yards on the river; and that the hours of work shall be regulated entirely in accordance with their wishes, based on the principle of not exceeding the time, at present actually expended on work, of not exceeding two intervals during such period, and of leaving work not later than at half past 5 o'clock, and on Saturdays at 4 o'clock. Young, Son, and Magnay.") Then came this address, of 15th May, signed by Frederick. (Read: "To the ship-wrights of the port of London. Shipwrights and brother workmen—Your privileges have been unfairly interfered with by Messrs. Young, Son, and Magnay, of Limehouse, who have altered your hours of labour. It was resolved at a special general meeting, held at the Edinburgh Castle, Stepney, on the 16th of May, 1856, 'That the alteration in the hours of labour, proposed by the above firm, was a violation of your rights; and the meeting pledged itself to resist it by every legal means in their power until the obnoxious notice given by the above firm was withdrawn.' We beg, therefore, most distinctly to inform every shipwright, that the dispute has not originated with the men. We make no new demand; but when on a sudden a notice is issued to the effect that it is the intention of Messrs. Young and Co., to deprive us of certain regulations or privileges which we have been, in

quiet possession of from time immemorial; regulations which custom and time have legalized, and the tacit agreement of the firm had ratified, we think it very just and proper to bring the matter forward for your serious attention. We have made no new demands: had we done so, in consequence of non-concession, then we might have been deemed unreasonable in our conduct. Augustus H. Frederick, president. Thomas Marr, secretary, May 15th, 1856.") In reply to that we issued the following address, (Read: "To the general body of shipwrights, now in the port of London. A placard has been circulated, signed, 'Augustus H. Frederick, president; Thomas Marr, secretary:' in which we are accused of having unfairly interfered with your privileges, and violated your rights. We shall not stop to inquire, whether you have authorised these individuals to speak in your name; but we denounce the charge as untrue and calumnious. If 'customs and habits' had been confounded with 'rights and privileges,' rotten boroughs would have still existed, and reform in every department, political and social, would have been impossible. We have simply to reply, that we consider the pretended rights, to which the placard refers, as real wrongs to the workmen; and the supposed privileges as real curses. It is this conviction that has induced us to propose a change, which has unexpectedly called down on us the unscrupulous denunciations and violent opposition of president and a secretary of——what? We appeal from this tyrannical decree to your individual judgment; we propose actually to diminish your period of daily labour, and so to regulate it's intervals as to accord with the practice I of the country at large; and thus promote your interests, your comfort, and respectability. Let every man examine for himself, and determine by calm consideration of our published propositions (which may be obtained on application), whether our description of these propositions, or that of our calumniators is the true one. But this we are quite ready to discuss; and to revise, modify, or withdraw them if proved to be injurious or unjust to you; and we have already offered to submit the whole question to impartial arbitration. We ask you whether, in offering such a course, we manifest any disposition unfairly to interfere with your rights and privileges?' Whenever or by whomsoever these are assailed, it will always be our pride and our pleasure to make common cause with you in their defence. But we cannot tamely submit to the cruel proscription to which it is attempted to subject us; and we appeal with confidence from this injustice and wrong, to your fairness and independence. We throw ourselves on that public opinion, which will finally decide justly. Young, Son, and Magnay, Lime-house Dockyard, May 17th, 1856.") Then followed this other address, signed by Frederick. (Read: "To the whole of the shipwrights of the port of London. Shipwrights and brother workmen,—We are extremely sorry to be under the necessity of making a second appeal to your good sense. Your president and secretary have been assailed by Messrs. Young, Son, and Magnay, as being calumniators. That we most emphatically deny, and throw it back from whence it came. The special general meeting at the Edinburgh Castle, Stepney, tells those individuals they were authorized to speak in the name of the whole body of shipwrights in the port of London. We still maintain your privileges have been interfered with unjustly. We have nothing to do with rotten boroughs. We shall not stop to inquire into that matter. Our cause is too sacred, or it would not have lasted for the last century and more; therefore, that proves to us it is right, and not wrongs and real curses, as denounced by Messrs. Young, Son, and Magnay. They also say, 'The violent opposition

of a president and secretary of what?' They knew of what when they wanted the society's assistance. Why was not this tyrannical question resorted to half a century ago, or so late as three months? No, became then your services were required for your country. The port of London have nothing to do with the regulations of the outports. We adhere to the system of the port of London. Let every shipwright judge for himself in the matter now before him, and use his own discretion. Augustus H. Frederick, president. Thomas Marr, secretary.")—The 3rd May was the period originally fixed for the alteration to come into operation—we found that there was an unexpected opposition raised to it, and we also found that by 3rd May many of the men who were opposed to it, and who were engaged upon jobs, would not have completed them by that time, and we thought it more prudent to postpone its coming into operation until after that work was completed, which we did, first to the 8th, and subsequently, I think, to the 17th—several of the men were under contracts at that time—the result, however, was that they left their work unfinished, and all of the men left the yard on 3rd May, leaving the contracts incomplete—in consequence of that, we endeavoured at last to obtain labour elsewhere, but not till after a considerable interval, during which we hoped they would be inclined to come to reason; but they did not—there is a public house called the Union near our premises, overlooking our yard—there is a room at that public house that commands our yard, and that room was occupied from soon after 3rd May—during my continual attendance at the premises I constantly observed shipwrights, very many of whom I knew personally, seated at the window of this large committee room, and congregated around the door of the house, and opposite the gates of our establishment, in considerable numbers—I noticed some of the defendants, Gale, Mumford, Reeves, Edward Hopper, and Brown very constantly, very frequently Frederick, and John Hopper; I should not like to speak positively to any others—they were generally seated at the window, smoking pipes, or in consultation apparently, in conversation at all events with each other, and with the persons who were assembled around the premises—the persons in the committee room appeared frequently to be in communication with the people round our gates—this continued, I should think, more than a month before we took any steps for obtaining workmen elsewhere; during that time our work was at a complete stand still, to our great inconvenience—at the end of a month we endeavoured to get other men; we sent to Gloucester, Ireland, and other places, and advertised in the public newspapers, offering twelve months' employment, at 6s. a day, to those who were inclined to come into our employment-some persons came up; I think the first who came were from Gloucester; I do not recollect that I saw them—I saw a great many of the men who came up from the country—I saw the whole of the first number of the Jersey men—I met them myself at the South Western station—I think that must have been on 24th July—before that I had some conversation with Edward Hopper; I cannot give you the date of that; it must have been in the course of the month of June—I found him at the counting house—I said to him, "Hopper, I am a little surprised at the active part you are taking in this business, because, although the obligation that I know you are personally are under to my firm does not claim from you any gratitude, or ought not to induce you to go to work for us on terms that you yourself are not satisfied with, I think it is not becoming in you to take so active a part as you are doing in preventing other persons who are willing to come into our employ, from doing so"—his reply was, "I am not interfering, Sir"—I said,

"Hopper, will you look me in the face, and tell me that you are not interfering to prevent other men from working for us? did not you, last Friday week, yourself accompany, in a cab, three of the Gloucester me from Limehouse to the Great Western station? did not you there pay them money to induce them to go back?"—his reply was, "Well, sir I did"—I said, "And do you dare to tell me that that is not an interference?" and I added, "Did you not, on the arrival of these Gloucester men, yourself meet them at the Great Western station, and there endeavour to dissuade them from coming down to our employ?"—he said, "I did"—"Well," I said, "and dare you tell me, after such an avowal that you have not interfered to prevent other persons from coming into our employment?"—I am not aware that he made any specific reply, but he certainly looked a little confused; and I then said, "Now, Hopper, tell me how came you to know that these men were coming from Gloucester to enter our employ?"—he replied, "Our letters from Gloucester told us that"—I simply said, "It appears that you have lost all consciousness of the distinction between moral right and wrong; you do not seem to think it is at all disreputable to tell me so barefaced an untruth"—on 26th July I was on the premises the greater part of the day; at an early hour in the morning considerable crowds were assembled, evidently instigated by the fact of a large body of men having arrived from Jersey—there were at all times some considerable number of persons, but there was on that morning an unusual assemblage—I think forty-two men had arrived the previous day from Jersey, the greater part of whom had been accommodated within our premises for shelter and protection—I had slept at my son's house the preceedings night—the numbers of persons assembled fluctuated, but I should suppose there were at all times from 50 to 100, after the hour of 9 or 10 o'clock—there appeared to be a good deal of excitement among them—I remained there till later in the afternoon than 1 o'clock—at half past 12 o'clock a good many of the men were going out to their dinner, and by that time the number had increased considerably; then there might be, I should think, 300 or 400 persons, and they continued to increase during the hour's absence for dinner, and the greatest number were assembled about half past 1 o'clock, when it was expected the men would return to their work—I should say there were then from 800 to 1,000 persons, and there were continually shoutings and expressions—I am unwilling to tax my memory with the precise expressions, but they conveyed to my mind that there was a feeling of great exasperation among them; so much so that I sent to the police office for assistance—I dispatched a letter to the sitting Magistrate, telling him that I apprehended a breach of the peace—after sending a second time, we got the assistance of the police—I saw the defendant Brown there, and Reeves also—at the time I saw Brown, he was standing quietly at the back of the crowd, next the public house—Reeves was mixed more in it, but I saw nothing of him at the commencement; I did afterwards—he was standing quietly at first—I did not afterwards see him or Brown conduct themselves in any other manner—Reeves addressed me at a later period, in the height of the riot—my son, Mr. Sidney Young, was standing with me, and with a good many of the officers of the establishment, watching, and for the purpose of affording any protection we could—something induced him to go into the crowd, and I saw him struck—I did not see that which led him to go forward—the men came back from dinner about 2 o'clock—very few of them succeeded in getting back—I saw several attempting to get forward towards the yard, and they were obstructed and prevented from

advancing by the crowd; the persons who were assembled—I believe two or three of them succeeded in getting in—we had about forty men, but they were not all out of the yard at that time, a great many of them remained on the premises to have their dinner, and there were some other men at work at that time—I do not recognize any of the defendants as having been in the crowd at that time—it was at that period that something occurred that led my son to go into the crowd—Reeves was certainly in the crowd at that time, because he was very near me—(upon the witness being asked what was done by the crowd, MR. JAMES objected, the acts of the crowd not being admissible as against the defendants, unless they were shown to have instigated or participated in them. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL contended that the evidence was receivable, as showing a systematic obstruction arising from the general combination; but he could connect one of the defendants more immediately with the act in question)—Reeves spoke to me at the period that the excitement of the mob was at its height, and the crowd threatening—I think that was a few minutes before my son was in the crowd—Reeves came up to me in a very excited state, evidently much alarmed, and said, "For God's sake, Mr. Young, do put an end to this!"—I said to him, "How, Mr. Reeves? by what means do you want me to put an end to it?—he said, "Oh, give up, sir, give up!"—I said, "Go away, you foolish man; go and give that advice to your colleagues over at the public house; don't offer it to me"—I do not recollect the reply that he made, I did not enter into further conversation—he did not deny that they were his colleagues—he made no observation—I did not observe him afterwards—(MR. JAMES renewed his objection, and submitted that this further evidence did not let in any act of obstruction on the part of the crowd. MR. BARON BRAMWELL felt some difficulty in saying that the evidence was admissible without some further prima facie evidence of conspiracy).

WILLIAM GEORGE OSBORNE . I am gatekeeper at the shipyard of Messrs. Young and Magnay. I recollect their announcement in May—I recollect the handbill coming out, and the men struck work—there is a public house called the Union, opposite the yard; that public house was occupied by shipwrights—the front room commands a view of our premises—it is a very large room; you can take a view from it right round our premises—I observed a great many persons frequenting that room—I knew their faces, and several of their names—there was Brown, Edward Hopper, Gale, Mumford—Reeves was there very often—Moyse, and Frederick very often—they were all there at different times, when the strike was going on—Frederick was not in the employment of Messrs. Young—I did not know him in the neighbourhood before that time—I did not know anything of Reeves before that time—I saw Reeves very often at the public house—I recollect the Jersey men coming, there was an additional crowd collected in consequence of that—on 26th July they commenced work, and went out at the usual time, half past 8 o'clock—a great number of persons collected on that day, particularly at dinner time, when the men left the yard to go to dinner—I saw a great number of the men at the window that day—Brown was there; he was outside the yard, about the streets, in the neighbourhood where the people had collected, in the crowd—I saw Edward Hopper; he was there the first part of the morning, at breakfast time, when the men went out—to the best of my knowledge, Reeves was there and Young—I cannot say that anybody else was there, because there was such a crowd—I saw them mingling with the parties that were outside—I do not know how long they were there—I left them, and went home from about half

past 1 to a quarter to 2 o'clock—I left a great crowd tumulting and going on—I saw Reeves about there at breakfast time that morning and at dinner time—I was inside, I could not see exactly what was doing outside; when I was at the gate at breakfast time I saw him—there was not such a crowd at breakfast time as at dinner time—there were fifty or sixty at breakfast time; to the best of my belief, Reeves was one of them in the morning I part I did not go out to my breakfast, but I was backwards and forwards at the gate—I saw him about and several others all the morning—I cannot say positively whether Reeves was there or not when I opened the door to let the men come back, but I saw him during the morning, outside the yard—I believe he was there at half past 12 o'clock, when the men went to dinner; I am pretty well certain—I saw him so frequently at various times that I did not notice him on any particular occasion—I am not speaking of I various times on that day, but during the time that this strike was on—I saw him frequently there, outside, the whole of the time—I did not notice the times, it was so common to see him every day about—I saw Edward Hopper in the morning, at breakfast time, when the men went out; there was a dispute with some of the Jersey men—I will not be positive about his being there at dinner time—I recollect seeing Brown at dinner time, and I saw Brown about in the morning by the public house—I saw Young in the afternoon part—I saw him about in the street; he was about the crowd—I there were, I should think, from 500 to 600 people collected about half past 1 o'clock when the men returned from their dinner—they were pushing and hustling about—(MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE proceeding to ask what the crowd did, MR. JAMES again submitted that the acts done by the crowd were not evidence against the defendants, from the mere fact of their being present, any more than the accidental presence of a person at a seditious meeting would render that person responsible for the seditious language used there. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL, admitting that it did not necessarily follow that because a person was in a mob, he was therefore answerable for the acts of that mob still contended that those acts were admissible in evidence; and that it would be a question for the Jury whether or not he was a participator in them. MR. BARON BRAMWELL was of opinion that the question could not be put; in order to make the acts of the crowd evidence against the defendants, it must not only be shown that he was in the crowd, but that he was of it; that he was a constituent part of the crowd, for the common purpose for which they were assembled; and, at present, it was not shown that the defendants were participating in anything that the crowd was doing).

JAMES NICHOLSON . I am a shipwright. About 1st July last I entered the service of Messrs. Young and Magnay—when I went there, I founds crowd of persons about the Union public house—I cannot say that it was on 1st July; I do not remember the exact day of the month—I remember Saturday, the 26th July—I endeavoured to go into the yard on that day after dinner—I was returning to my work along with three others, who were stopping in the same house—I had got within a short distance of the yard, and I perceived a crowd of about 200, as near as I could judge—they made way for us to pass through, the chaps crying out, "Here they are! here they are!"—they made a passage for us to pass through, by separating to both sides of the way, and when we had got about half way through, they commenced beating us—I received a blow from behind when I was within about twelve yards of the gate; I was the first of the four—they kept crying out, "Give it to them! let them have it!"—on receiving the blow I turned round to see who gave it, and I got another—I cannot tell who struck me

those blows—I then turned round again to make towards the gate, and I perceived the defendant Brown; he struck me, and kept me from going towards the yard—he struck me two or three times, about the head and neck—he struck me with violence—I was knocked down shortly afterwards from the press of the crowd—I was hurt; I received an injury to my head, and was off work for a week—I did not observe any of the other defendants at that time—I do not remember seeing any of them there in the course of the morning—I had seen most of them before; I had seen them from the first day that I came there, at different times, about the Union public house—I did not see them doing anything, they were standing about there.

Cross-examined by MR. EDWIN JAMES. Q. Was there anybody but Brown that you saw take an active part in it? A. I saw a great many others, but I did not know them.

JOHN ELLIOTT . I am in the service of Messrs. Young and Magnay. On 26th July I was in company with Nicholson, about 20 minutes or 25 minutes past 1 o'clock—we were going to Messrs. Young's yard to work—there were a great many persons assembled round the gates, there might be more than 200—I saw Nicholson hit once by Brown about the head and face—I was also struck by more than one person, more than once—I was not much injured by it; I might have been though; I was knocked down—the crowd were making a great deal of noise, and shouting, "Let them have it! give it them!" and such as that—there were four of us going to work at the time, and some of the others got the same; we all went together, the crowd opened a space, and let us go into the middle, and then closed in round us—a good many, backwards and forwards.

DAVID HUNTER . I came up from Southampton to go into Messrs. Young's employment—I was going there after dinner on 26th July—when I got about twelve yards from the premises, I found a great crowd assembled about the Union public house—they were hallooing, "Here they come! hit them! beat them! knock them down!"—that was when I and my comrades came in sight—they were most of them strangers to me—we tried to get into the yard or elsewhere, to get out of the crowd—I got within twelve yards of the gate when I was knocked down, and the people about cried out, "Give it to them! knock them down! beat them!"—there were a great many persons about—the policemen assisted me—one boy picked up my cap, and tried to assist me to get away from them, but none of the others assisted me—I saw Brown in the crowd, I do not recognize any of the others.

COURT. Q. Did you get into the yard? A. No, not till such time as I was guarded down from my lodging by a lot of policemen.

EDWIN GODWIN (police sergeant, K 24). On 20th July I was on duty in the street by the yard of Young and Magnay—I remember the men coming back from dinner—there was a great number of all sorts of people and mechanics—there were eight or ten people altogether, following along Henry-street and the neighbourhood, a distance of 120 yards, and as they were coming back from dinner they were stopped in the street by men, women, and children, some knocking their shipwright's hats off, and preventing them going to the yard—there were four men going to their work, Nicholson and three others, who were stopped twenty yards from the gate—the people were shouting out, and they were obliged to retreat back—there was a rush, and they all went down together, and two policemen were down at the same time—I did not see any blows struck, I was some distance behind, I got up to them as fast I could—a policeman got hold of Brown, who was on top of

Nicholson—he got them by the collar, and was getting him off him—there were a number of people whom I knew by sight, but I cannot call them by their names—there were shipwrights whom I had seen frequently at the Union public house—I saw Brown and Young in the crowd—I have seen several of the defendants about, but I do not know whether they were present at that time—Brown and Young are the only two I recognize as being there at the time.

Cross-examined by MR. E. JAMES. Q. You did not see Young do anything? A. He cried out, "Rescue them! rescue them!" that is, rescue Brown—I know what are called lumpers; there were a great many there—lumpers are the lower class of people who can get a job to do—there are a great many about Limehouse—they live some distance from the yard—there are a great many lumpers who work on the water—when it commenced by knocking each other's hats off, it appeared to me to be serious, and some of the women were spitting in the men's faces.

MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. What men? A. Those were these three men—there were a great number of ladies, twenty, or more than that, and a good many children—there were ladies, lumpers, and children, all classes of people, and there was a good deal of excitement.

BENJAMIN EDWARD THOMAS . I am a workman in the employ of Messrs. Young. I live in London—I was in their employment on 26th July, and was coming from dinner to my work, and found a great crowd assembled, kicking up a noise and a dreadful row—I had a difficulty in getting through, the mob prevented me—the street was full, I could not pass, and was pushed about—I saw Frederick Young stop one of the men, cut him about the shoulders, push him about him the crowd, and knock his hat off—I saw Brown there, but cannot say he did anything—there were a great many there, I cannot say who.

JOHN GAVEY . On 26th July I was in Messrs. Young's employment—I was returning home from dinner to my work, and was knocked about in the crowd, and had my hat taken away and my rule—I have got them back—I was not much hurt.

FRANCIS KITTERINGHAM (policeman, K 313). I was at Messrs. Young's on 26th July—I agree that there was a large crowd, making a great deal of noise—I took hold of Brown, asked him if he wanted to kill the men, and told him I should know his face again; that was all I said—he made no reply that I know of, but there was a great bustle—I saw him strike several times.

WILLIAM TURFS . I am a clerk, in the employment of Young and Magnay. I remember the strike of these men in May, and seeking for other hands elsewhere—about the end of May I was sent to Paddington station, to meet some shipwrights who were coming up from Gloucester—I got to the station about a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes before the train came in—it was after 5 o'clock in the afternoon, and not so late as 8—when I got on the platform I met Gale and Mumford together; they entered into conversation with me—Mumford asked me how many men I expected up from the country; I do not remember whether he said from where—I said, "I do not rightly know how many it is"—he said that be understood there were as many as twelve to come; I said that I did not understand that there were as many as that—he said that he had a letter from Gloucester to say that some hands were coming, but they were the worst hands in Gloucester—he said, "There are some expected from Wales are there not?—I said, "I do not know"—he asked me what Mr. Cousins

was doing—I said, "I do not know"—Cousins is a draughtsman, I suppose; and he was supposed to be at Gloucester—when I said that I did not know how many were coming from Wales, he said that he understood there were two to come from Wales; I said that I had not heard of any coming Wales, but not being in Mr. Young's confidence, I was not aware whether such was the case or not, but he appeared to know more about it than I did—he said, "Oh, bless you! we know all about it when anybody is coming to town"—this was before the train arrived, and when it arrived we went up in company together, to see whether there were any that looked like shipwrights—we walked up and down, and could not see any that looked like shipwrights, and Mumford said, "I do not see any that look like shipwrights," but when they were getting the luggage out, some two or three men stepped out, and conversed with one that was there, I do not know whether it was Gale or Mumford—I went up, and they left the one they were talking to, and came to me—I told them where I came from, and that I came to see after their luggage—they looked after their luggage afterwards, and I put it in a place of safety, and got a lodging for them, to prevent bringing them to Limehouse that evening—a railway officer took us under an underground passage, and left Gale and Mumford walking a little distance from us—just before I left I looked back, and saw them, but lost sight of them, and we went into a coffee house, and engaged lodgings—the men said that they should like a little refreshment, and we went into a public house—Gale and Mumford were there, and conversed with the men across the table; they said that they were out on strike, and the cause of it was that their rights and privileges were being unjustly interfered with; that Mr. Young was as good an employer as any one on the river, and that it was merely a difference of opinion in the right of beer time, but it was a right and privilege, and they could not consent to give it up—the Gloucester men looked at me, as if waiting a reply—I said, "What these men have told you is true, except that it is not a right; it is merely an old custom which exists in the port of London, but not on the river Thames, not even at Northfleet"—Gale and Mumford said that it was the unanimous opinion of a meeting of 2,000 shipwrights—I said, "It was not unanimous, for I know a man who approves of the new terms;" and they did not say any more on that subject—they entered into a little desultory conversation; and when the men were going away, Gale, Mumford, and myself stopped, and had a little something at the bar, and Mumford went into the parlour again, and said to the men something in an undertone, which I did not hear—Gale followed; he seemed speaking; and we came out again—before we came out they insisted on sending some more refreshment to the men in the parlour, at their expense; that was done, and then we left, and came down to Limehouse together, leaving the men behind; they came in an omnibus to the railway—when we got to Limehouse, I was going home, and we bade each other good night, and they said, "We must go to the Union public house, to see our mates; they are there waiting for us"—I had left instructions overnight for the men to come to Limehouse, but in the morning I went to stop them, to keep them in town all day, and not to come down till the evening—Mr. Young had given instructions for that—when I got out of the station in Fenchurch-street, I met Gale and Mumford, who said that my men were waiting for me at the Great Western station at Paddington—they were coming from the City way from Fenchurch-street to the station, and I had got out at Fenchurch-street station, and was going to the west end—I went towards Oxford-street, and met an omnibus, with three or four

Gloucester men on it—I got off my omnibus, stopped the omnibus, and get them to get down, and go the Paddington station; I think two were left behind—lodgings were provided for them at Limehouse, and I told them would leave a man for them to go about where they pleased, and at night they would find their lodgings at that house, Mr. Ray's—on Saturday morning I went to the lodgings to see the men, and found them not in the house, but a few doors off there was cab was standing, and some of them were in it, and the others were standing by another one—in the cab, with three of the Gloucester men, Edward Layton Hopper was seated—I walked up rather sharply, and I think Henry Hopper gave him a signal, and he opened the cab door, stepped out, and shut it—Edward Layton Hopper wanted the other men to get into the second cab; one said, "I will not get in unless some one else gets in," and Edward Layton Hopper said, "it is all right, I will go with you;" they got in—Edward Layton Hopper did not get in, but followed round the corner on foot—I did not follow to see if there was any further communication with them—I went back again to the yard, and in the afternoon went up to the Great Western Railway to get whether the Gloucester men had really started—they did not come till after I got there—I went to the carriage after they ware seated, looked in at the window, and had some conversation with them—they went back to Gloucester; they never came to work at all—some men were engaged to come from Jersey, by way of Southampton, and I went to Southampton to meet them.

(MR. EDWIN JAMES here stated that the defendants, with the exception of Frederick, against whom he understood no case could be made out, would plead Guilty to the indictment, and throw themselves upon the mercy of the Court. MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL stated that he was unable to establish a case against Frederick; and that as to the other defendants, the object of Messrs. Young would be answered by their pleading Guilty, and entering into their own recognizances to appear and receive judgment if called upon, and recommended them to the mercy of the Court.)

The defendants, with the exception of Frederick, then

PLEADED GUILTY , and entered into the required recognizances.


15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-889
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

Related Material

889. JOHN BROWN and FREDERICK YOUNG were again indicted for assaulting James Nicholson and others, upon which no evidence was offered.


15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-890
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

890. FRANCIS MICHEL was indicted for a rape on Ellen Lyons, on 2nd Sept. MR. SLEIGH conducted the prosecution, and MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE the Defence.


NEW COURT.—Thursday, September 18th, 1856.


Before Mr. Recorder and the Sixth Jury.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-891
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

891. JOHN SAUNDERS , stealing 1 watch, value 3l.; the goods of Thomas Pledger, from his person: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 21.— Confined Twelve Months.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-892
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

892. HENRY WEATHERALL , feloniously breaking and entering thedwelling house of Henry Goodwin, and stealing 9 costs, and other articles, value 40l.; the goods of William Darnley Serjeant; having been before convicted: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 24.— Five Years Penal Servitude.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-893
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

893. PATRICK BRYAN , robbery on Esther Samuels, and stealing 1 chain, and other articles, value 7l. 14s.; the goods the Philip Lewin Samuel.

MR. THOMPSON conducted the Prosecution.

ESTHER SAMUEL . I am the wife of Philip Lewin Samuel, of West Bromwich, in Staffordshire, a tailor and draper. On 27th Aug., about 2 o'clock, I was in High-street, Whitechapel—George-yard is a passage leading from High-street—I was crossing the end of George-yard, and saw the prisoner and two other persons standing at the entrance of the yard—as I was crossing, the prisoner snatched my gold chain, which was round my brooch, and pulled my brooch open—a miniature of my husband, in a large gold locket, was attached to the chain, two pencil cases, and two lockets—there was no watch—the miniature was in my watch pocket—he succeeded in getting my chain—I did not think at the moment that he had got my miniature, the act was so very quick—I turned at that moment, and tried to tear the chain from him—I caught it, but he wrenched it from me, and went off down George-yard, and the two others went with him—they ran as fast as they could—I saw the prisoner's face when I turned round—I have not the slightest doubt that he is the man—I could not exactly say how he was dressed—I know he had not the same jacket on that he has now—I gave a description of him as soon as the policeman came up, which was not above ten minutes afterwards—I told him what had happened—I saw the prisoner the next afternoon at the police station, in Leman-street—he was alone—nothing passed—I merely looked at him, and said that he was the man—the inspector said he had got a man—the value of the articles taken from me is about 8l.

Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. Had you ever seen the prisoner before? A. No—there were not more than three persons there that I am aware of—this chain was not round my neck, it was to a brooch, and was fastened with a pin—the brooch got unfastened—what was taken was the chain, the miniature, two small lockets, and two pencil cases—I did not notice whether there were many people about; but when it occurred there was a great crowd round me—it was all done very quickly.

COURT. Q. What did you do when they ran off? A. I called, "Stop thief!" and "Police!"—I went a little way down, but the people begged me not to go down there—one gentleman ran after him—it was ten minutes before the policeman came; it might have been more.

WILLIAM BATES . I live with my father, who keeps a coffee shop at No. 96, Whitechapel. On 27th Aug., about 2 o'clock, I was crossing George-yard—I saw Mrs. Samuels and the prisoner, and two other men were standing at the end of George-yard—the prisoner ran up to Mrs. Samuels, and snatched her chain, and ran away down George-yard, and the other two men ran with him—the prisoner was not dressed then as he is now—I believe he had a dark coat on—I am sure he is the man.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you see whether the prisoner had his hand shut? A. Yes, it was—I was going to school—I did not speak to Mrs. Samuels—I did not say anything about it till I went home, and told my mother, and she told a policeman.

COURT. Q. When did you next see the prisoner? A. The next morning, in custody, at the station—Mrs. Samuels was not there then—we prisoner

was alone when I saw him—there were policemen all round, but no other prisoner or stranger.

JOHN BONE (policeman, H 181). About 2 o'clock, on 27th Aug., I was on duty in High-street, Whitechapel—I was called to George-yard and saw the prosecutrix—she complained of being robbed, and gave a description of the man, and I took the prisoner about 11 o'clock next morning—I told him what he was charged with, he made no reply—when he got near the station I door he asked me again what he was charged with—I told him again, and I he said, "Very well, I will go with you "—I know that he frequents George-yard—I have seen him there for nine or twelve months, and I found him there—he lodges two streets from there, in a lodging house.

COURT. Q. Were you at the station when the boy Bates was there? A. Yes—the other prisoners had just gone out of the station, and there were no other persons that I could have put with the prisoner—when I have seen the prisoner in George-yard at other times, I cannot say whether he has always had this jacket on—they change their jackets so often—I have seen him in a dark jacket—I had seen him two or three days before this in a dark jacket in that neighbourhood—I had not seen him on the day this happened—the reason that I was so long in coming up was, I had to go to the station with a charge.

(The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read, as follows: "I am innocent of it; this is the only jacket I wear.")

JURY to WILLIAM BATES. Q. Had you known the prisoner before? A. Yes, I had seen him a good many times.

GUILTY † Aged 21.— Five Years Penal Servitude.

Before Mr. Justice Williams and the Seventh Jury.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-894
VerdictNot Guilty > non compos mentis
SentenceImprisonment > insanity

Related Material

894. SHAFTO WOOD , feloniously assaulting Alice Crowley, and attempting to suffocate and strangle her, with intent to murder her.

MR. ROBINSON conducted the Prosecution.

ALICE CROWLEY . I live with my father, at Haggerstone, next door to the prisoner. I have not known him long—one day he took me up into his room and undressed me—he then washed me—he then got a rope and put it round my neck, and hung me up to the bed poet—it was such a cord as this (produced)—it hurt me—I tried to cry out, but I could not—when he tied me to the bed post my feet were not touching the ground—he afterwards took me down—I could not speak for some time after I was taken down—he dressed me, and then he let me go away—while he was putting the rope round my neck, he said he would hang me, or else kill me—after he had dressed me, and let me go, I went into my own house and told my father.

Cross-examined by MR. HORRY. Q. Was anybody else there at that time? A. No—I do not know whether there was anybody else in the house—the prisoner did not say that I had been looking at him, and I should not look at him—I knew him before—I had not spoken to him—I had not known him long—he lives next door to me—I do not know his mother.

JOHN CROWLEY . I am the father of this child. She was six years old last Nov.—I am a shoemaker, and live at Haggerstone—on 4th Aug., about half past 6 o'clock in the afternoon, the child came into my house—she appeared confused, and could scarcely stand—she made a complaint to me—after her mother had called my attention to it, I observed the child's neck—it appeared as if a wire, or something tight, had been drawn round her neck—I went to the front door of the prisoner's house—I found it fast—I went and forced open the back door—I tried to open the door of the room in

which the prisoner was—he pressed against it to prevent my getting in—I forced the panel in, and got into the room—I asked the prisoner what he had been doing to my child—his answer was, "Nothing"—in a few minutes he asked him where the rope was that he had done it with—he at first said, he did not know—he afterwards said we should find it in the cupboard—I found this piece of cord in the cupboard—he told me that was it.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you live next door to the prisoner's mother? A. Yes—I believe his stepfather lives there—I had observed the prisoner about the neighbourhood, but I do not know him—I have since heard from his mother, and other persons, that he is reckoned rather foolish.

GEORGE WILLIAM HENRY COWARD . I am a surgeon, of New North-road, Hoxton. This child was brought to my house by a constable on the afternoon of 4th Aug.—I examined her, and found about her neck considerable extravasation of blood, and several marks of excoriation—the skin was broken—I found three or four marks round her neck—it might, no doubt, have been done by this cord, in tying the child to a bedpost—from what I saw, tying the cord round the neck would be most likely to suffocate the child, if she had been suspended long—it appeared to have been tied very tightly round her neck—there had been great pressure round the neck to cause the breaking of the skin, and the extravasation of blood underneath.

THOMAS FRYER (policeman, N 480). On the evening of 4th Aug. I went to No. 12, Park-place, Haggerstone—I saw the prisoner in the back room—I called the child into the room where the prisoner was—I examined her neck—I told the prisoner the charge was for assaulting the child, and he must go with me to the station—he did not say anything—when he was at the station, he first said, "I tied the string round the bedpost, and the child got her head into it by accident"—he afterwards said, "I tied the string round the child's neck for a joke; I did not mean to hurt it."

The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read, as follows:

"I was down stairs, and when I came up she had got her head in the rope; I pulled it off her neck; I was very sorry she had got the marks on her neck."

Witnesses for the Defence.

ELIZABETH WOOD . I am the prisoner's mother. I live at No, 19, Park-place, Haggerstone—the prisoner will be twenty years old next birthday—my former husband's name was M'Leod—the prisoner has always gone by the name of Wood, which is the name of my present husband—the prisoner was only two years old when I was married—his mind has always been weak the same as it is now—he has never been able to get his own living, except two months, when he worked for Mr. Copeland—at one time he used to go out with a stool and bow, and scrape with it, as if he had an organ—he had a box of playthings like a child, and had a piece of wood and some pieces of twine tied round it—he called it his hurdy-gurdy, and used to sing and play it—he was in the habit of tying the cat up while he was playing with his playthings, that she should not run away—he tied the cat round the neck a great many times—I cannot tell you how many times—he tied the cat, not to hurt her, only told her to lie still on the bed—he would show the cat his playthings, like as a child would do, and he would take his books and show his pictures to the cat—he would do that a day or two before he was taken—I bought him a pair of boots, and he cut them all up with a slice-maker's knife, and also a satin waistcoat that I bought him he tore up—he gave no reason for it—I beat him for it—that was about two months before this charge—I asked him why he did it; all the answer he gave was he would never do it again—he has always been acting in that way.

Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. Have you any other children's A. I had one who died about two months ago, aged fourteen, who was in the same way—I never thought it was necessary to confine the prisoner, he has always been so harmless.

WILLIAM EDWARD COPELAND . I am of the firm of Copeland and Co., engineers, in St. John's-terrace, Hackney-road. I had the prisoner with me about April or May—I observed his conduct during about a month; in my judgment, he was of unsound mind—I was not aware of it when he entered my employ—I ascertained it afterwards by observing his actions, and so forth—he wrote this book to give it me, it should have been an account of his time—here is a date supposed to be Sunday—here is "Toms Cabin" occupying two pages—here is "On Monday, got drink"—the next days "Holiday," or "whole day;" I am not certain which—on one occasion Mr. Glass, a publican, died, and I said to the prisoner in the morning, "Mind you are here at 2 o'clock"—he did not arrive till 20 minutes past 3 o'clock—I asked him the cause of his absence, and he said he had been witnessing the funeral of this gentleman—he purchased a white apron for 1s. 4d., and that was marked on it in charcoal, and he wore that four or five days going to and from the factory—he said Tom's Cabin was a small public house in Margaret-street or Gloucester-street, where he was in the habit of spending his time.

Cross-examined. Q. At the time he went to see this funeral, were you in some measure depending on him? A. Yes, he had been with me about a week—I had some dependence on him—I thought if I named it to him he would come—he did not work regularly for me—I did not at first believe he was of unsound mind, I found it out in the course of two or three days—he went about his work, and he always ate his meals pretty well—the result was that I could not keep him—I found there was no dependence to be placed on him, and I got another person.

WILLIAM SPARKS . I am a general dealer and chandler, of No. 12, Gloucester-street. I have known the prisoner four or five years—I always formed the opinion that he was not right—I have seen many strange ways with him—he has been in the habit of coming to my shop for his mother for three or four years—he had all manner of curious sayings and oddities—he would come two or three times, because he took the wrong thing—that appeared to be from want of judgment—he always spoke in a strange way—my observation of him for four or five years led me to form that opinion of him.

NOT GUILTY , being insane. Ordered to be detained during Her Majesty's pleasure.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-895
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

895. SOPHIA MAYHEW , feloniously killing and slaying Sarah Papps.

MR. RIBTON conducted the Prosecution.

PETER PAPPS (policeman, K 323). On 10th May I was passing North-terrace, Bethnal-green, about 10 o'clock in the evening, I found a child lying on the ground, dressed pretty comfortably—there were several persons near, it was crying—I took it to the workhouse—it was christened after me, Sarah Papps—it was in a pathway, about thirty yards from the row one way, and fifty yards the other.

WILLIAM FRANCIS . I am constable of Bethnal-green Workhouse. On 10th Aug. the last witness brought the child to the workhouse—it appeared to be about a month old; it was warmly dressed in these things I have here—it was taken to the infirmary, and given to a woman who was suckling

a child—she suckled it for two days, and then she said she had not milk enough for it—it was given to another woman, who partly suckled it, but the milk did not seem to agree with the child—it was removed to the lying-in ward, and fed with milk and arrowroot—it lived there about eight days—I suggested that it should be called after the name of the constable who brought it, that it might be known who brought it.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. It was brought in on the 10th, and died on the 26th? A. Yes—it was eight days in the workhouse, and eight days in the infirmary.

MR. RIBTON. Q. Do you recollect the prisoner coming? A. Yes, on the day before the child died—she asked if any lost children had been brought in—I asked if she had lost a child; she made no answer—I asked her if she was the mother of a child that had been brought in there some few days previously, and I asked her if she knew these clothes—she said, "Yes," they were the clothes she had wrapped her own child in—I asked her if that was her child that had been dropped on North-terrace—she said, "Yes"—I took her to the infirmary, and showed her the child—she said that was her child—I took her to the station, and charged her with deserting her child—the child died the next day, and the prisoner was examined and committed for manslaughter by Mr. D'Eyncourt.

THOMAS BOOTH CHRISTIE . I am assistant to the house surgeon of Bethnal-green Workhouse. I remember the child, I attended it the last five days before it's death—it died on 26th Aug.—the cause of it's death was the want of proper nourishment; the want of mother's milk—it is very dangerous to take a child of five weeks old from the breast of it's mother—it would be more dangerous than if it had never sucked—in taking it from one breast to another it is very often attended with considerable risk.

Cross-examined. Q. You do not mean that there are not hundreds of cases in which children of five weeks are taken from the mother, and brought up by hand? A. They are generally put to wet nurse—they are frequently brought up by hand, but it is attended with risk—the child might not take to the wet nurse, many hundreds of children do not—I should say if the child had taken to the wet nurse in all probability it would have lived.

COURT. Q. Are there not foods that are sufficiently nourishing to bring a child up? A. Yes, the child's life depends on the nature of the food given to it—children generally will refuse to go to another woman—it is the change that causes it to be dangerous.


THIRD COURT.—Thursday, September 17th, 1856.


Before Michael Prendergast, Esq., and the Fourth Jury.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-896
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

896. WILLIAM ACRES , stealing 1 handkerchief, value 4s.; the goods of John Goss Fleay, from his person: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .** Aged 14.— Confined One Month, and then Three Years in a Reformatory Institution.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-897
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

Related Material

897. MARY WENBON , unlawfully endeavouring to conceal the birth of her new born female child.

MR. CAARTEN conducted the Prosecution, and MR. LAWRENCE the Defence.

GUILTY . Aged. 29.—Strongly recommended to mercy by the Jury.— Confined Six Weeks, without hard labour.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-898
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

898. PRUDENCE STARK , stealing 1 pair of boots, value 5s. the goods of John Marchant.

EDWIN SPENCER DURANT . I am shop boy to Mr. Merchant, of Aldgate. The prisoner came there to buy a pair of double soled boots—I tried some on her, and they were too small, and some more, and they were too large—I then attended to a gentleman who came in, and while I was doing so, she went to the door, took a pair of boots which were tied together on a nail on the door post, and put them under her frock—she came in again, and I accused her of taking a pair—she told me I might feel in her pocket, and that she could give me a character from her mistress, over the way at the butcher's—I felt round her dress, and felt a bump; she told me I was not to feel there, I was to fetch a woman—I said that I would fetch a policeman—she ran across the road, and I ran after her—she ran into a passage, and I saw the boots fall from under her clothes—she picked them up, held them in her hand, and hallooed out for her mistress—a lady said that her mistress did not live there—she said that she had paid me a 5s. bit for the boots, and was going to run again, but I pushed her into a shop, shut the door, and fastened it till a policeman came.

Prisoner. When I handed him the 5s. piece, the gentleman was then; he got up when I put it on the board, but he said that he had not seen the money; the Lord Mayor told me to cut it short, so I did not tell him this Witness. There was no altercation about a 5s. piece—I had no 5s. piece—she had previously told me to enlarge another pair.

JOHN BROOKS (City policeman, 66). I took the prisoner.

GUILTY . Aged 21.— Confined Three Months.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-899
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude

Related Material

899. JOHN SMITH , burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of William Courtauld, at Christchurch, and stealing therein 8 watches, 17 spoons, 2 butter knives, and 1 eye glass, value 12l. 17s., his property.

MR. MAC ENTEER conducted the Prosecution.

FRANCIS KELLY (policeman, H 130). On Thursday morning, 28th Aug, about a quarter or 10 minutes past 3 o'clock, I was on duty in Brick-lane; and saw a man run from the passage of No. 26, Brick-lane—it is a passage between Nos. 25 and 26, and leads to a factory at the back, and is in the parish of Christchurch, Spitalfields—I sprung my rattle, and he ran towards Osborn-place, and down Halton-street—another constable caught him—I kept him in view all the time—he got away again, and I tried to stop him but he ran past me till he came to Thrawl-street, and I ran and got past him—he came back the same way, but not so far, and was stopped at the top of Thrawl-street—the same officer tried to stop him, but he ran back towards me, and ran in at the door of a house in Thrawl-street, into a passage, and I found him in a stooping position on the stairs, on his hands and feet—it was dark, but there was gas light—I kept him nearly in view the whole time, and am quite certain he is the man I chased, and as he passed me in Thrawl-street, I saw something similar to this crowbar in his hand, it looked like iron—I took him out from a kind of coal place under the stairs, and found this crowbar (produced) under where he was—I took him to the station, then returned, and found that No. 26, Brick-lane had been broken into; a quantity of watch works were strewed about the floor, and some broken glass; the things had been knocked about and upset—the ledge of the back parlour window shutter was burst, and there were marks on it, which I afterwards compared with this crowbar, and found that they were just the very width—there are some wooden boards in the passage

fencing the yard, which they bad got over, and got to the window—that house, in the passage of which he was taken, is open all night; it is a house of ill fame.

Prisoner. You stated, at the first examination at Worship-street, that you lost sight of the man you first pursued. Witness. Yes, I state that now; I lost sight of you when you went into the passage—after I brought you to the door, I believe two or three policemen came—I believe one of them struck vou—you did not resist when I took you out of the place.

WILLIAM LARKER (policeman, H 63). On the morning of 28th Aug. I was on duty, and heard a cry of "Stop thief!"—I saw the prisoner run from the door, with something in his hand resembling this crowbar—he ran across Brick-lane; I followed him—he turned short round, and ran down Osborn-place, which is my beat; I followed him 200 yards down, and was about to take him into custody, when he struck me twice with an iron her, once on the arm and once on the right shoulder—I believe it was intended for my head, but I put my arm up—I ran back, got constable 130, and he went up Osborn-place—another constable made a grab at him, but passed him—he turned round again, and ran into Thrawl-street, and into No. 7; I lost sight of him then for two seconds; another constable came up, turned his light on, and I saw him in a cupboard; under the stairs, in a crouching position—there was no one running but the prisoner—this crowbar was found underneath where he was.

WILLIAM COURTAULD . I am a watch maker and jeweller of No. 26, Brick-lane. On the Wednesday night, near 12 o'clock, my premises were all safe—after I retired to bed, I heard my dog bark, he made a great noise, and got out of bed and checked him—my wife did not feel satisfied, and she get up, looked out at the back window, and saw a light—I got out of bed, and saw a light reflected on a shed at the back—my wife said; "The house is in flames!"—I rushed down stairs, and as I was going down, a case if watch movements, which was on the counter, fell on the floor—I opened the street door, and two men rushed out; one was stout, with a cap and jacket, one seemed taller than the other—I called out, "Police! stop thief!" but being in my night dress, could not follow—from the prisoner's size I should say that he is one of them, but I could net swear to him—my window shutter was wrenched at the bottom, and the bolt bent, so that they could lift it—I have compared the crowbar, and the dent fits exactly—it was deep, it had wrenched away the paint, and gone into the wood above; then is a stone sill at the bottom—crowbars used by carpenters are not turned up in this way—I never saw one turned up like this, and the point is hardened steel—I am of opinion that the marks must have been made by an instrument of this kind and size—I missed nine watches and seventeen silver spoons, two butter knives, one with a silver handle, and one mother of pearl, two silver snuff boxes, and one scent box, value altogether 17l. or 18l.—my window looks to the front of Brick-lane—by opening the parlour window they got an entrance into the shop.

Prisoner's Defence. I went into the passage of the house, and five policemen came and assaulted me with their staves, and notwithstanding my entreaties, they beat me about till I was smothered in blood, and carried me along to the station; the young woman who I went into the passage with, cried shame upon them; a man afterwards came off the stairs of the house, and was let go; I think the prosecutor was at the station at the time I was being washed.

FRANCIS KELLY re-examined. I saw no man or woman at that time, but

a man was brought from the same house afterwards, it might be an hour afterwards, who they said might belong to the same gang—the officer who brought him to the station is not here—it is a house of ill fame.

WILLIAM COURTAULD re-examined. I discovered it about a quarter to 3 o'clock—there was a great noise next door—a woman lives there who keeps a fish shop—the noise seemed almost on purpose—my dog was struck over the head with this iron bar—there was a mark down from his eye, but he was not much hurt—he is a large dog, weighing thirty or forty pounds—I saw a trifling blow on the crown of the prisoner's head, and the blood ran down a little—I saw the policeman wash it.

GUILTY . Aged 25.

(The prisoner was further charged with having, been before convicted.)

JOSEPH HOLDER (policeman, K 427). I know the prisoner by the name of William Ellis—I produce a certificate—(Read: "Central Criminal Court; George William Ellis, Convicted, April, 1851, of stealing in the dwelling house, and afterwards burglariously breaking out; Transported for ten years")—the prisoner is the person—in Sept., 1855, he obtained a ticket of leave, and in Dec., 1855, he was convicted at the Thames police court, and sentenced to one month.

GUILTY.— Eight Years Penal Servitude.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-900
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

900. EDWARD PAYNE and WILLTAM MASSER , stealing 2 sacks, and 8 bushels of malt, value 4l. 5s.; the goods of Thomas Charrington and another, the masters of Payne: to which

PAYNE PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 46.— Confined Nine Months.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

ADAM M'DONALD (City policeman, 33). On 8th Sept, about 7 o'clock in the morning, I was in a coffee shop in Carey-street, Chancery-lane—I saw Masser at the top of Serle-Street, Lincoln's Inn-fields, with a horse and cart—I was there from certain instructions—shortly afterwards I saw a waggon driven by Payne from Chancery-lane into Serle-street—he drew the waggon up by the kerb stone, and halted—Masser drew his cart in close behind the waggon—Payne went on the top of the waggon, which was loaded with sacks, and pretended to be removing something—he then laid hold of a sack which was on the back part of the waggon, and handed it down to Masser, who was standing in the cart close behind—he then took another in the same way, and laid it in the bottom of the cart—Masser then drove into Carey-street at a sharp pace, and Payne drove the waggon on to Lincoln's Inn-fields—I went in advance of Masser—there was another constable with me—one of us remained behind in Carey-street; I went in advance, and when he was half way down Carey-street, I turned round and laid hold of his horse's head, and asked what he had got in his cart—he said, "I have got a quarter of malt"—I asked him where he got it from—he said, "I suppose off that waggon"—I asked where he was going to take it to—he said, "It don't appear that I am going to take it anywhere"—I was in plain clothes—I asked him if that was his answer—he said it was—he refused to give any other account of it—I then took him to Bow-lane station—I saw the name of Charrington on the waggon—the name on the cart was "Sophia Whit-taker, Wapping-wall"—I took it to the green-yard, and Mrs. Whittaker had it from there—the two sacks are here—they are full of malt—the name of "G. Dewding" is on both of them, and the name of "Charrington" is also on one of them.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Were you in the coffee-shop when you saw the sacks passed from the waggon to the cart? A. Yes—I could not hear what passed between the prisoners—they did not appear to talk

it all—the cart Masser had was a very large cart—the malt was lying down in the bottom of the cart, covered over with an old piece of tarpaulin.

HENRY LOVELL (City policeman). I was with M'Donald on the morning of 8th Sept. in the coffee shop—I saw Masser in Serle-street with a horse and cart—I saw Payne get on the top of his waggon, and hand Masser down two sacks of malt—Masser backed his cart close to the back of the waggon, took the sacks from Payne, and drove away down Carey-street; Payne went on to Lincoln's Inn-fields—I went with M'Donald after Masser.

THOMAS CHARRINGTON . I am a partner in the firm of John Charrington and Co., of Queenhithe, wharfingers. Payne was our carman—I know nothing of Masser—on 8th Sept Payne had thirty-six quarters of malt to deliver at Messrs. Meux's brewery, in Tottenham Court-road—it was in sacks—he had no right to deliver any of that malt to Masser—I have seen the sacks produced—we have a customer named Dewding—our name is also on the sacks—the malt in the sacks is precisely the same as that which Payne had to deliver.

SOPHIA WHITTAKER . I am a widow, and live at No. 4, Wapping-wall. Masser was lately in my employ—he was so on 8th Sept.—I did not authorise him to use my horse and cart for any purpose on the morning of 8th Sept.—I have seen the cart since at the green-yard; it was mine.

Cross-examined by MR. MACENTEER. Q. You sometimes allowed Masser to take the cart for some purpose that he might require, did you not? A. No, certainly not; not on any occasion—he used the horse and cart when he was in my employment; that was what I engaged him for—I never permitted him to use it after he left my employment; and when he was out unknown to me, I was always very angry with him, and told him never to do it—he has used it several times unknown to me; the last time was on 28th Aug., early in the morning.

MASSER— GUILTY .* Aged 42.— Confined Twelve Months.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-901
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

901. JOHN KNIGHT , stealing 6lbs. weight of brass and other goods, value 11s.; the goods of Edward Pontifex, his master.

EDWARD DONAGAN . I am in the employment of Messrs. Pontifex, of Shoe-lane. On 16th Sept, about half past 5 o'clock, when we left off work, I followed the prisoner—he went to Tabernacle-row, and went into a public-house—I spoke to an officer, and when he came out I gave him into custody—he had been a metal washer, and a dirt washer as well.

JOSEPH SWAN (policeman, A 440). In consequence of what Donagan said to me, when the prisoner came out of the public house I followed him down Tabernacle-row, stopped him, and asked him where he worked—he said, "At Mr. Pontifex's, in Shoe-lane"—I told him I suspected something was wrong, and asked if he had anything about him—he said, "No"—I told him to take off his hat, and in it I found this bag, containing brass and copper—I asked how he came by it—he made no answer—I showed it to Donagan, and then took the prisoner to the station in Old-street, and them to the factory, where I searched him, and found four or five pieces of copper in his pocket—I afterwards went to his lodging, No. 11, Baltic-street, St. Luke's, and there found a quantity of metal buttons and brass knobe—I produce all the things.

JOHN SHARPE . I am manager to Messrs. Pontifex, and conduct the business. The prisoner has been in their employment for twenty years—the metal produced is the same sort as he was working upon—there is 8lbs. 10oz.; it is worth about 5s.—it is impossible to identify it; we have tons of

this description of metal; it comes from country dealers—I had not given instructions to have the prisoner watched; we did not suspect him—Donagan had heard something, and had followed him for some time—he had a guinea a week—he has a wife and five children.

EDWARD DONAGAN re-examined. I had followed him for several nights before—I did not see any thing about him—he was about ten minutes in the public house.


15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-902
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

902. JOHN BARON , burglary in the dwelling house of John Reiley, and stealing 5 bird cages, value 5s. and 5 birds, value 15s., confined in the said cages, his property.

MR. THOMPSON conducted the Prosecution.

MARY ANN REILEY . I am the wife of John Reiley, of No. 25, Playhouse-yard in the parish of St. Luke. It is his dwelling house—on Friday night, 30th Aug., we went to bed a little after 12 o'clock—I fastened the door—the windows were the same as they had been ever since we had been in the house; they were kept shut down—we had six birds in cages, kept at the side of the first floor staircase window—I got up a little before 6 o'clock in the morning, I found the window as I had left it over night, but I missed five birds, and the cages as well, there was only one left—the entrance must have been effected by opening the window, and it must have been shut down again—they could not have got at the cages without opening the window—I think they could reach the window from the outside without a ladder, with assistance, for the lead over the street door was partly removed; they could read the window from that.

Cross-examined by MR. HORRY. Q. Is this a front or a back window? A. Front—I saw the birds afterwards at the station house, on the Tuesday morning; they are mine.

COURT. Q. Do you know them to be your birds? A. Yes; and the cages also.

MR. HORRY. Q. Are you quite sure that all the cages are yours? A. Four out of the five are, one has been shifted; I think the bird is mine, but it was in a different cage when it was taken—I cannot swear to the bird, it very much resembles the one I lost.

GEORGE BIDGOOD (policeman, G 43). I was on duty in Playhouse-yard, about 2 o'clock on the Saturday morning, and saw the prisoner there—I asked him what he was waiting for—he said for another man, and walked away—he was not twenty yards from Mrs. Beiley's house—he lives in White-street, Bell-alley, Goswell-street.

Cross-examined. Q. In what direction did he walk? A. Towards White-cross-street—Playhouse-yard leads into Whitecross-street—he turned to the left, a little way into Whitecross-street—that was not towards his home.

JAMES BRANNAN (police sergeant, G 21). I went to the prisoner's lodging, in White-street, Bell-alley, on Tuesday, 2nd Sept, about 2 o'clock in the morning—I found him in bed, and asleep, on the second floor—I awoke him—he asked what I wanted—I said I came about some bird cages—he said, "What bird cages?"—I said, "These I expect;" going over to a shelf where I saw these bird cages I now produce, covered over—I had received a description of them from Mr. Reiley, and they answered that description—I sent for him, and he came and identified them—while he was taking down a cage from the wall, the prisoner said, "That is not one of yours, Mr. Reiley"—there were several other cages in the room—I asked him where he got them from—he said he bought them—I said, "Where?"—he said, "In Club-row "—I said, "When?"—he said, "On Sunday morning"—I asked

"Of whom?"—he said, "A stranger"—I asked, "At what shop?"—he said it was not a shop, he bought them of a stranger in Club-row—that is in Spitalfields.

Cross-examined. Q. It is a place celebrated for the tale of birds, and all other things, is it not? A. Yes—it is a market, they are nearly all bird shops and fancy shops—persons do not sell there in the street, as they do in Petticoat-lane—I never knew them do so—I have not brought the cage here that the prisoner said was not Mr. Reiley's, because Mr. Reiley said it was not his—I found six more birds in cages—there were no pigeons—the prisoner's father claimed the fifth bird, which Mr. Reiley thought was his.

GEORGE MATTOCK (policeman, G 162). I accompanied Brannan to the prisoner's house—I took him to the station; the inspector told him he was charged with burglariously breaking into the dwelling house—he said, "I only stood on the window, I did not go inside."

Cross-examined. Q. Was not this what he said, "It is not burglary unless I got into the house?" A. No; he said, "I only stood on the window, I did not go inside "—two or three other persons were present at the time.

(The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was read as follows:—"I deny stealing them, I bought them; I deny saying what the constable states; I said it was not burglary, not unless I got into the house."

MARY ANN REILEY re-examined. A person by opening the window, and standing there, might put his hand in and reach the lower cages, but think not the highest of them; if he was inside he might—he might reach them from the outside.

(The prisoner received a good character.)

GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Six Months.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-903
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

903. THOMAS CORBY and CHARLES CORBY , stealing 1 wheel-barrow, 1 tub, and 1 screen, value 12s.; the goods of John Arthur.

MR. LILLEY conducted the Prosecution

WILLIAM COX . I live at Hillingdon-end, and am a labourer, in the employ of John Arthur. On 6th Sept., I used a barrow and screen—I left them outside a shed belonging to Mr. Arthur—I missed them on the 8th, and a tub also, from the shed—I afterwards saw them in the possession of the constable.

Gross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. I believe the shed is without a roof, and in a brick field? A. It is not in a brick field, it is close by one—the goods did not belong to a Mr. Hardy at one time, the premises did—I do not know that the elder prisoner had leave to use Hardy's things—I do not how that he was Hardy's foreman—this shed is in a yard, surrounded by a wall—the wall goes three parts round, and there is a hedge in front, about seven feet high—I do not know what the prisoner is—I believe he is a bricklayer by trade—I have been in the parish all my life—I have seen the prisoner, but I did not know his name before this—I think he keeps a public house in Green Man-lane—I think his son lives with him—it is about three quarters of a mile from the shed—the things have not been injured.

JOHN ARTHUR . I am a whitesmith, and live in Windsor-street, Uxbridge. I have a shed in my occupation, in the parish of Cowley—I have had the care of it for the last two years and a half—it is enclosed by a wall, and a quick hedge, and a gate, with a lock to it—there was in that shed a wheel-barrow, a tub, and a screen—on 8th Sept I was informed that they were stolen—on 17th I was going through Cowley, and met Thomas Corby, and his labourer, about half a mile from the shed, the labourer was wheeling

my barrow—I got out of my cart, and asked Corby where he was going with my barrow, and where he got it—he said that his father lent it him—I said, "The barrow is my property; it has been stolen out of my premises, and there are two other articles "—he said he had seen the other articles, and had no doubt if I went to his father's, he would send them all back—I got a policeman, and give him in charge—the father, Charles Corby, afterwards came to my worktop, and said he was very sorry such a thing had happened, that he had been repairing a building, and as he was on the ladder he saw my barrow in the yard by the side of the shed; that he wanted a barrow, and he put his ladder over and took it out; then afterwards he wanted the screen, and he took that out; and he wanted the tub, and he had lent them to a friend—I believe he is a bricklayer and plasterer by trade.

Cross-examined. Q. Where did you get this property from? A. I bought the tub of a cooper, the screen I manufactured myself, and the barrow I have had more than seven years.

JOSHUA TUBB (policeman, T 93). I took Thomas Corby in charge from the prosecutor—he said, "I have taken back all the things"—I said, "How did you become possessed of them?"—he said, "I did not steal them, some one else did, there they are, all took back."


FOURTH COURT.—Thursday, September 18th, 1856.


Before Mr. Recorder and the Sixth Jury.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-904
VerdictGuilty > pleaded part guilty
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

Related Material

904. HENRY BEAUMONT , feloniously attempting to discharge a loaded pistol at William Cox, with intent to murder him.—2nd COURT. with intent to do him grievous bodily harm. The prisoner

PLEADED GUILTY to the 2nd COUNT, and Mr. ROBINSON offered no evidence on the first.— Judgment Respited.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-905
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

905. SARAH COLLINS and MARY ANN LAVENDAR , stealing 25l. 6s. in money, and 1 box, value 6d.; the property of William Bunce, in his dwelling house.

MR. LILLEY conducted the Prosecution.

MARY ANN BUNCE . I am the wife of William Bunce; I live at Ruislin, near Uxbridge. On Saturday, 6th Sept., I left my house to go to Uxbridge, at about half past 10 o'clock in the morning—at that time I had a small box, placed in a larger one, in my bed room, containing 25l. 6s.—I took 4s. from it that morning—the large box was not locked, but the small one was—the coin was principally in gold—I returned home at about half past 2 o'clock the same day—I went up stairs at about 10 minutes to 3 o'clock, and it was then that I first missed my small box—I left my daughter at home when I went out—she is about fourteen years old—my house joins the prisoner Lavendar's, but the garden parts Collins's house from mine—there is a watercloset, common to both the houses of Lavendar and myself—before I went I saw Lavender, in the morning—she asked me if I was going to Uxbridge, and I asked her the same, and she said she was, and her nag would overtake mine, meaning her donkey cart—we both kept a donkey cart to go to market in—there was in the small box five bills, and a black purse, and two sovereigns were in the black purse—I saw the bills again on the Tuesday morning, a policeman brought them to my house—it was not

at the same time that the lock and key were shown to me; that was on Monday—on Friday (the day before) I supplied Collins with coals—she did not pay for them—she asked me if I would trust her with half a quarter or a quarter of coals (that was worth 2 1/2 d.), for she had only half a sovereign towards paying her rent, which she did not wish to change—she paid me the 2 1/2 d. on Saturday at Uxbridge.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Is not this time when they get a little money for the harvest? A. I believe it is—I do not know whether they give them 5l.—I knew the prisoners' husbands had been harvesting—when I reached Uxbridge I found Lavendar there—the harvest was over—soon afterwards I found the other prisoner—at Uxbridge we do not put our donkeys up, but leave them in the road—I do not know the people at Uxbridge—I do not know whether there are a good many boys there—there were some men mowing close by my house—there was a high hedge between them and my house—I left my back door shut—it has a bolt and a snap, and I have a front door leading my back door shut—it has a bolt and a snap, and I have a front door leading into the street—the back door was left on the latch—Lavendar is my neighbour on one side, and Collin's house is on the other.

MR. LILLEY. Q. Do you know the prisoners' husbands? A. Yes, they were home about a week or four days before this happened.

WILLIAM BUNCE . I am the last witness's husband. On the Wednesday afternoon before the Saturday, I counted my money in the box—these bills (produced) were in the small box.

JANE BUNCE . I am the daughter of Mary Ann Bunce. On Saturday, 6th Sept., when my mother went to Uxbridge, I was left at home to mind the house—after my mother left I saw the prisoners—I stood against the railings parting our yard from Mrs. Lavendar's yard, that is in front of the house—just after my mother had gone, Mrs. Collins come down and asked Mrs. Lavendar to hook her gown, and she said to her, "Make haste, I want to go to the closet," and she went to the closet through Mrs. Lavendar's house—she came from her own door to have her gown hooked—that is on one side, and Mrs. Lavendar's on the other—there is a closet belonging to Mrs. Collins went into Mrs. Lavendar's door—there is a way from Mrs. Lavendar's back premises to ours—it is a straight little yard—the back doors of the two houses open into the same yard—while Mrs. Collins was gone to the watercloset, Mrs. Lavendar stood against our door, and asked me for two pins to pin her bonnet on—that was while Mrs. Collins was gone to the closet—after Mrs. Lavendar had pinned her strings, Mrs. Collins came out, and got up on her cart and went off to Uxbridge—Mrs. Lavendar went with her—I remember when my mother returned—while she was absent, no one came near our house to my knowledge, except the prisoners, except two little children who came after some suckers—we sell sweetstuff—I served them—I went into my mother's bed room while she was absent—that was where the box was kept—my mother's shawl hung half out of the box, and her apron quite out—that was about half past 11 o'clock, about an hour after she had gone—I was standing by the railings about a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes before I went in.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you then go into the house? A. Yes—I attended to the shop when my mother was gone—I can see the back door when I am in the shop—there is a room behind the shop—I should not be able to see the back door when I am in the shop—there is a room behind the shop—I should not be able to see the back door from the front—there is a window in the bed

room, which Is up stairs—that window was open—the stairs are in the back room—the back window is so far from the ground that you cannot reach it—it is higher than the top of that lamp—any one coming into the back room would go up the stairs into the bed room—I could see the back door from where I was sitting working, but could not see the stairs—when I am working, I keep on looking at my work—this was market morning.

MR. LILLEY. Q. After you left the railings what were you doing? A. I was cleaning up in the front room—I could see the back door.

COURT. Q. These cottages are by the road side? A. Yes, the high road to Uxbridge—when I saw the shawl and apron hanging out, I put them both in, and went on with my work—I did not see whether the little box was in—I knew it was kept there—I had last seen that little box there on Wednesday afternoon—it was down stairs, my father had it—I never saw it in the big box—the bed room window I cannot touch—there is a back window which I can touch.

ROBERT HENRY SMITH . I am ten years old. On Saturday week, about 1 o'clock, I saw Mrs. Collins on Uxbridge-road, against Belmont pond—that is on the road to Uxbridge—she said to me, "If you go in and fetch this box, I will give you a penny for your trouble, and a penny for the box"—there was a box: in the pond, and some bills in it, floating on the water—I went in and brought out the box, and two of the bills—they were not far in the water, up to my knees—Charles Page was there—there were several boys there—I got out the box and papers, and gave them to Mrs. Collins—I gave two of them to Mrs. Collins—she said, "Never mind about the others"—they were out of the box, floating in the pond—they were not further in than the box—she said, "Chuck them away, I don't want them"—she kept the box, and two of the papers, and went towards Uxbridge—I afterwards went in and fetched out the other papers—I gave them to John Page, the brother of Charles Page.

Cross-examined. Q. How far did you go in to get the box? A. Over my knees—it is a big pond, bigger than this room—I had to go in about as far as from me to you (about three yards)—I saw the box before I went in—two boys jumped over the rail and said, "I can see the box"—Mrs. Collins was then standing against the rails—she spoke first, telling me to get them—it was after she had spoken to me that the little boys said, "We can see the box"—I could see it plainly—the pond is quite close to the Uxbridge-road, near the highway—a person passing in the road can see the pond—it was about 1 o'clock—persons come from the road and water their horses there.

MR. LILLEY. Q. Are there railings in the pond? A. Yes, to keep the horses from going in too far.

COURT. Q. When Mrs. Collins had got the box, where did she go? A. She went down towards Uxbridge.

JANE BUNCE re-examined. My mother came home about half past 2 o'clock, and Lavendar came home about a quarter to 3—my mother goes to Uxbridge in half an hour in the donkey cart—Mrs. Collins and Mrs. Lavendar went to Uxbridge about a quarter to 11 o'clock.

CHARLES PAGE . I am ten years old—I live at Uxbridge—on the same Saturday that Smith was near the pond, I was there—I saw Mrs. Collins there—she said if we would go and get the box, she would give us 2d. for our trouble—she had passed by the pond—Mrs. Lavendar was gone on the road—Smith went into the water, and fetched out the box—when it came out, the lock fell off—I saw some papers—I saw Smith go in and

fetch them out, after Mrs. Collins had gone—he gave them to my brother—he gave two to Mrs. Collins, and three he got out afterwards—I can read—these are the papers (produced).

Cross-examined. Q. Did not Mrs. Collins say it would make her a nice work box? A. No.

RICHARD ROADKNIGHT (police sergeant, T 11). I received the papers which produce—from information I received, I went to Collins on the Monday evening—I told her I had received these three papers from a boy, and she said she knew nothing about them—I received them from Page and his mother—they were in the street together—I said, "You gave two boys 2d. to go into Belmont-pond, to fetch a box out"—she said, "Yes, I had the box of the boys, but I did not steal Bunce's money"—nothing had been said by me about stealing Bunce's money—the matter had been a good deal talked about—she said, "I never went into the room at all, I only went through Mrs. Lavendar's house to the privy"—Collins was in custody at this time—it was after she had been taken into custody that I went to see her—I afterwards took Lavendar into custody, and Inspector Timewell said to her, "I take you into custody for stealing your neighbour Bunce's money, 25l." she said, "I know nothing about it"—her husband came in at the time—this was at Lavender's house—he said, "Hold your tongue; they can't hurt you; they can send you to London and send you back, but if you don't split, they can't hurt you"—I told her that Mrs. Collins had given a boy 2d. on Saturday to get a box out of the pond, and she said, "I went with Mrs. Collins, and she never spoke to any boys at all"—she meant Mrs. Collins in saying that, for she used the word she, and not I—I afterwards went to Belmont-pond, and found this lock and key (produced)—the box has not been found.

JOHN TRIGG (policeman, T 279). I reside at Ruislip. I took Collins into custody on the following Monday—I asked her what she had about her—she produced two sovereigns, and said, "That is all the money I have got"—I had at that time taken her into custody, and told her I was going to convey her to the station—Mrs. Lavendar was there at the time—she said, "You go to Uxbridge with the police constable, and I will come and swear to-morrow that you never went into Bunce's house at all"—I went up on the bus with her on Tuesday, and she told me that it was true what the boy said about the box, that she did give 2d. to fetch it out.

Cross-examined. Q. When Mrs. Collins gave you the 2l. did she say anything more? A. No.

JAMES WESTON . I am assistant to Mr. Davis, a pawnbroker, of Uxbridge. On Saturday, the 6th, I saw both the prisoners in Uxbridge, between 12 and 1 o'clock, in my master's shop—they bought three shawls—they paid for them—Collins had one, and Lavender two—Collins paid 6s., and Lavendar 7s. 4d. for the two—they both paid in silver and copper.

WILLIAM BUNCE re-examined. There was 2l. 10s. in silver, before my wife took the 6s. out—I had never shown the box to any one out of my house, but Lavendar has seen me take money out of that box—I cannot say how long before; it has been several times, when my wife was ill—she has come and assisted me, and seen me take money out of the box—my wife had been ill a little time before this—my daughter's husband has been in my house before this, and other persons have occasionally been in my house before—I do not know that Collins knew that I had money in the box.

MARY ANN BUNCE re-examined I do not know that Collins knew we had money in the box.

ROBEBT HENRY SMITH re-examined. The box was like a little trunk, covered with paper—it was wet—when Collins told me she would give me 2d. to get the box out of the water, I saw no other person with her—I did not see her join any other woman afterwards.

CHARLES PAGE re-examined. I saw Mrs. Lavender first, and she went along the road to Uxbridge, and I saw them both together, and then Collins left Mrs. Lavendar, and came back to me.

ROBERT HENRY SMITH re-examined. It was about 1 o'clock that I saw these women—I had not had my dinner—I have it generally about 1 o'clock—it was some time after that I had my dinner—I went down home to get my dinner—I live about a quarter of a mile from the pond—I got my dinner some time after—I did not have any dinner that day.

CHAELES PAGE re-examined. It was about 1 o'clock, because it was about half past 1 when I got home—my house is at the bottom of the lane—when I gave Mrs. Collins the box, she put it in her apron with the papers.


15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-906
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

906. CORNELIUS DONOHUE and BENJAMIN DONOHUE , robbery, together with a woman unknown, on William Green, and stealing 4l.; his money.

WILLIAM GREEN . I am a hawker, and live at No. 3, Wine-court, White-chapel. On 27th Aug. last, about 3 o'clock in the day, I was near Petticoat-lane—I had 4l. 4s. with me, all in silver—it was in my left pocket—I felt it last when it was taken from me—there was a row in Petticoat-lane, a fight between two boys—I was looking on—I saw these two men with a female—I had never seen them before—I said it was a pity to see them fighting, and some one gave me a blow in the face—on my receiving that blow, Benjamin said to me, "Don't interfere with the boys fighting; come with me, and we will have something to drink"—I went with them to the Horns public house, and I paid for two pots of ale, which we had in the parlour—we then came to the bar, and Benjamin called out for a quartern of whiskey, for which I paid 7d.—Benjamin put something into it from a pot which stood by, which made it look like sherry—it was white before—I drank part of it, and they the rest—there was no harm in what the prisoner put into it—a person came in and asked the landlord for change for a sovereign—the landlord said he could not do it without going up stairs, and I gave him change—we afterwards left, and went to a beer house, and had some beer, and I began to feel rather queer—I said I had better think about going home—Benjamin said, "We are going your way, and will accompany you"—we left the beer house, and all went together—we went to Thrawl-street, Spitalfields—Benjamin had said before, when I said about going home, "You had better come home with me and have some tea"—after this, Cornelius went into a house, and a female met him, and I went into the passage of the house—when I got into the passage, Cornelius came out of a back room, and gave me a blow upon the face—it partly sent me to the ground—while I was falling, Benjamin gave me a blow on the side of the face, and I fell to the ground—the woman, when I was on the ground, tore part of my hair out of my head—Benjamin leaped on me, with his knee across my chest, and said, "Kill the b—"—I bled from the mouth and nose—I found they were after my money, and I took my hand from under me, and felt in my left hand pocket, and the money was there—Cornelius put his hand also in my pocket—I seized him by the arm—I never saw any money, but I thought he, Benjamin, took something from Cornelius's hand,

and then made his escape with the woman—I held Cornelius, and afterwards took him to Brick-lane, and saw a constable in Brick-lane—my money was all gone—Cornelius was taken to the station house, and I charged him with assaulting me and robbing me—I was taken to the hospital, and afterwards, while I was there, Benjamin was brought to me—I am sure that Benjamin is the man that escaped.

Benjamin Donohue. Q. Were you not in company with the female when I first saw you? A. No—it was about 3 o'clock when the boys were fighting, and about half past 3 that we were at the Horns public house.

JOSEPH SAUNDERS (policeman, H 17). The prosecutor gave Cornelius Donohue into my custody—it was about 8 o'clock in the evening—he was in liquor—he charged Cornelius with assaulting him—seeing them come arm in arm together, I thought he was joking—I referred him to the Magistrate for a summons—(we have not the power to take a person into custody for a mere assault, unless we have seen it, without a summons)—when I said could not take him for the assault, he said he charged him with robbing him of 4l.—Cornelius said, "I did not do it; I took another man, my brother Benjamin, off from him, with whom he was fighting; I never took any money from him"—I then took him to the station house—the prosecutor was so ill that he was obliged to go to the hospital—he seemed to be injured internally, in the throat—there was blood came from him—it appeared to have come from the mouth—he told me there was another man—he gave me no description, but he told me it was a brother of this man's—I took Benjamin on the Friday morning, and took him to the hospital—directly I took him into the ward, the prosecutor said, "That is the man that knelt upon my chest"—Benjamin said, "I don't know anything at all about it."

Cornelius Donohue. Q. Did the prosecutor come up quietly with me? A. Yes, quietly, and not as if he was alarmed.

Benjamin Donohue. Q. At the time of giving the other prisoner into custody, did he charge me? A. No, it was afterwards, at the station—he did not mention Benjamin till after Cornelius had said he pulled another man off him—he mentioned also the woman, but not till then.

WILLIAM GREEN re-examined. I live at No. 3, Wine-court, Whitechapel-road. I hawk round the streets with a barrow of crockery—I was going to buy some goods in Sun-street, Bishopsgate, to go to market—no one that I know of knew that I had this money—I was very drunk—I was drinking from 3 o'clock till 8—I can swear that these are the men who took my money—I am sure that I felt it when on the ground—the reason I did not charge Benjamin at first, was because I was the worse for liquor—the reason he came up quietly was that we had several struggles in the street, and he saw the constable, and thought it would be better if he went quietly—it was about sixty yards from where it took place, that I gave him into custody.

The prisoners in their defence put in the following paper: "On the morning in question we went into the Horns public house together, and there saw the prosecutor drinking with a woman; he accosted us, and asked us to take a glass of ale with him; we did so, and he left the public house with the female; we saw no more of him till about 7 o'clock in the evening, when we accidentally met him, very much intoxicated, and bleeding from the nose; he knocked up against the prisoner Benjamin, and upon our reasoning with him, he struck Benjamin in the chest; the prisoner Cornelius then went up to him, to endeavour to make peace, upon which he asked him to go and have some drink with him, at the same time shaking

his hand; Cornelius then advised his brother Benjamin to go away home, which he did, and not notice an intoxicated man; the prisoner Cornelius then walked a little way with him for peace's sake, when he met two policemen; the prosecutor then gave Cornelius in charge for an assault only, but the policeman refused to take him, on the grounds that he had not witnessed the affair, and advised complainant to summon him, and told prisoner to go about his business; the prosecutor, finding that he could not get hold of the prisoner by fair means, then said, 'Well, if you won't take him in charge for the assault, I shall charge him with robbing me,' and the prisoner Cornelius was then taken into custody; at that time no mention was made of Benjamin being concerned in robbing him, until the following day, when he was arrested. We beg to submit, that the man must have been during the day in bad society, and being in a state of intoxication, was robbed by some one, when in a fight with some people, as he himself admits, and that, meeting us, he gave us unjustly in charge; besides, if he had been robbed by Cornelius, would he not have given him in charge for the robbery in the first instance, instead of the assault?")

WILLIAM GREEN re-examined. I did not mention the robbery at first; I did afterwards, because he would not take him without my mentioning that—the money was all loose in my pocket, not in a bag.


OLD COURT.—Friday, September 19th, 1856.


Before Mr. Justice Williams and the First Jury.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-907
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

907. HUGH SHAW , unlawfully obtaining a promissory note for 350l., by false pretences.

MR. BODKIN conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS JONES . In the early part of Nov. last I was introduced to the prisoner by Mr. Graham, and on 4th Jan. this year I met the prisoner at Graham's, No. 8, Duke-street, St. James's—I mentioned that I was in want of money, and showed him this copy of a promissory note (produced)—he said that if I would entrust it with him, he would pass it through his banking account which he had at the Manchester and Safford Bank, and would remit to my son 200l. the following morning, 5th Jan.—he said that his uncle, Mr. Hugh Shaw, of Manchester, kept an account there likewise—I had heard of the uncle before—I went to my son's chambers, in Great George-street, and obtained from him the original promissory note, of which this paper is the copy—(This being read, was dated 10th Sept., 1855, for 350l., payable to William Charles Hussey Jones, or order, six months after date, signed Edward Cresswell and Sons, at Williams, Deacon, and Co., Bankers, London, and endorsed, William charles Hussey Jones, Thomas Jones, Hugh Shaw)—I handed the original, to the prisoner, and he was to send my son 200l. by the telegraph the following morning, and the remainder was to be sent in the course of a few days—the 350l. was not to be sent next morning, because he said that it would not look well to pay the bill in one day, and draw the whole amount the same day—that was after I gave him the note—when he spoke to me before I went to get the note from my son's chambers, and said that he would pass it through the account he had,

I believed he had an account there, and it was in consequence of that belief that I parted with it—this letter (produced) is in the prisoners writing, except the signature—this telegraphic message (produced) is also his writing.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE Q. How does it happen that you got this note? A. I applied to my son, and he had it by him—it was paid to him by his elder brother, who got it from Cresswell's—I believe that not a farthing of it has ever been paid by myself or anybody else, as far as I know—I have endorsed it, and shall be liable to the holder for it; I have not lived all this time without learning that fact—as far as I know, Cresswell and Sons have not paid it—I believe that none of the Tucker people are here—I know that Tucker and Co. got this bill—I do not know anything of Messrs. Tucker—I do not know whether they did the prisoner, and me, and everybody else—I am not in communication with Messrs. Tucker, I never saw either of them, or spoke to them—I have never been in communication with them, nor has my son, to my knowledge, but I believe he has—he went to them—I do not know that he got this bill from Tucker's; it was on no other account but for this prosecution, for the production of it in this cause—I believe it was given by Tucker to enable my son to proceed with this prosecution—I cannot say whether, in point of fact, Messrs. Tucker are aiding in this prosecution—I do not think they are aiding in it further than as regards the giving up of this bill—I know no other motive for their giving it up, if it were not to Ald in this prosecution—I know nothing else about it.

Q. If Edward Cresswell and Sons are respectable, and pay their bills, what difficulty had you in getting it discounted? A. I know nothing of the bill but receiving it from my son; I had never seen it—I know now that it had only two months to run—four months certainly gives people plenty of time to inquire about a bill or a note—my son Henry is a parliamentary agent—I used a young man, of whom I know nothing, to get it discounted, because I had no banking account myself—I did not do it through my son, because it was not convenient for him to give me the money, not having it by him; he handed it to me as a matter of accommodation—I wanted money, applied to my son for it, and he gave me the bill—I was to have 200l. back at once, and the rest was to remain in the hands of the defendant for a few days—I had been in communication with the prisoner from November—I have known Mr. Graham ever since the early part of 1854; I did not apply to him to raise money for me—he is a money dealer, or a money agent—I had not put or caused an advertisement to be pat in a paper; I know of none being put in on my account—Mr. Graham never, to my knowledge, advertised on my account—I have never heard it—I have got two acceptances of the defendant's, amounting to 850l. (produced); I have kept them till now—I had no other security, no other bill, or acceptance—I had one other transaction with him, but which I had given up six months before; it was for 2,000l.;—these two acceptances are dated 22nd Dec., 1855—when I first got them, I took means to get them discounted, hut could not; I did not get any more of them, but I had them in my possession at the time I have deposed to—I did not know that he had no banker's account until we were before the Magistrate; I had made no inquiry, I got a friend to make inquiry as to his status and position—I did not get the 200l. till some days after—that would bring me to about the middle or towards the latter end of Jan.—I heard that he had applied to take the benefit of the Insolvent Act, and was in gaol in Lancaster Castle, and I then had him taken into custody, and brought up here—

I have heard of people being whitewashed; I hare not gone through the process myself—I have been bankrupt—I suppose that it was his intention to get rid of all his liabilities in that way; of course, if he went through the the Court he would, so I had him brought up from Lancaster Gaol, and lodged quietly in Newgate—I did not mean that he should get through his liabilities, and rob me—on the second day after that, the father of the prisoner sent that bill to Messrs. Tucker's—I have never had the bill from Tucker's.

Q. If, in point of fact, he committed the fraud you represent, why did you let seven months elapse before taking steps, and only when you heard that he was going through the Insolvent Court? A. It was not till 6th March that the letter was written from my eldest son to his brother, sending a note to Messrs. Tucker with an order to deliver up the bill.

Q. If he cheated you in Jan., why did you wait seven months before you gave him into custody? A. Because I did not know where the bill was gone, and was not desirous of punishing him, and did not think he would be guilty of such an act as appropriating the bill to his own purposes.

COURT. Q. When did you find out that you were cheated? A. On 7th March the letter arrived in London—I did not take proceedings till Aug., because I had no wish to have punished him and destroyed his character.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Did you not know perfectly well that the Cresswells had notice not to pay the bill? A. Yes, that was on the ground of my having been cheated—proceedings were taken by Messer's. Tucker, I did not take them—I do not mean that the Messrs. Tucker are the parties who, in reality, are at the bottom of this prosecution—I do not know that an endeavour has been made by the father to obtain the money from the Tuckers, and that they are at the bottom or this prosecution—I do not know whether Mr. Tucker is here; I have never seen him—it was he who arrested the prisoner, I only know what for from hearsay—the representation on which I parted with the bill was made in the presence of Graham, whom I had known from the early part of 1854—after the transaction of 4th Jan., I applied to get these two bills discounted—I had the 2,000l. bill in my possession up to the middle of Jan.; I tried to get it discounted after 4th Jan. till I returned it to Mr. Graham; it was drawn by Graham, and accepted by the prisoner—I held it, and afterwards returned it to Graham in the latter part of Jan.; not all the three, but the 2,000l.—I was not aware that the prisoner had any banking account; he always represented to me that his uncle, Hugh Shaw, had a banking account, and was a man of great respectability and position, before the day I got the bill.

MR. BODKIN. Q. With respect to the 2,000l. bill, on what account was it drawn? A. It was drawn for a moiety of the share of a slate mine, lease, of which I was the lessee—in the latter end of 1855, I had a take note of the Henry slate quarry—this bill was drawn by Graham, and accepted by the prisoner on account of my share in that quarry—I never endorsed that bill or made myself liable upon it—the prisoner was the purchaser of the share—Graham was a party to that purchase, he drew the bill on the prisoner; Graham was to hold one quarter of the mine; he and the prisoner were to be jointly interested—I found I could do nothing with the bill, and returned it just as I received it, without endorsing it—the lease of the mine is made to me, and is dated Nov., 1853—I agreed to take them at that date; I did not pay any consideration.

Q. In what way was their value increased so that the one-half was worth 2,000l.? A. I had expended a considerable sum of money in opening the

mine, and had discovered a vein of slate—I represented that to Mr. Graham—the other two notes were drawn by me on the prisoner for the purpose of discount, for his accommodation—I was not to receive any of the proceeds if they were discounted; I have not even endorsed them—I paid for the stamps.

COURT. Q. Were not you to have a share of it? A. No—I took the trouble of discounting it in furtherance of the arrangement contemplated with respect to the slate quarry—at that time I and he were partners—he was to pay 2,000l. for his share, the bill was for that—he was to pay 1,000l. as purchase money, and the other part of the bill I was to have met—the purchase money was 1,000l.—this (produced) is the agreement (this was doted 27th Dec., 1855, between the witness, the prisoner, and Graham, and transferred half the beneficial interest in the date quarry from the witness to the prisoner and Graham)—If I had obtained discount for the bills, I should have handed the money to the prisoner for his own purposes—he was not to manage the quarry, I was to manage it—he could have had them if he had asked for them—nothing was said about that at the time the bill for 350l. was given—it was in March that I first discovered that I had been cheated—I did not positively know where the prisoner was, from that time, till I heard he was in Lancaster Gaol—I suppose he was at his place, Grafton House, Ashton-under-Lyne—I suffered from March to Aug. to intervene without prosecuting him, because I was very unwilling to do anything to damage him, a young man, In his future life, and therefore I declined to the latest moment taking any steps; and more than that, the representations he had made to me of his connections in Manchester had taken effect upon me; and I was still more anxious because one of his uncles I had known for a great many years, Mr. Edward Buckley—I made no charge against him till I heard that he was in prison at the suit of Tucker—I had not the least to do with his arrest by Tucker—the bill was produced before the Magistrate (A letter was here read from the defendant to Messrs. Tucker, dated 7th Jan., 1856, enclosing the bill for 350l.)—these other two letters are in the prisoner's writing, except the signature (The first of these was dated 10th Jan., 1856, from the prisoner to Messrs. Tucker, requesting the favour of a remittance of the balance of the bill he had forwarded last Monday evening: the second was dated 17th Jan., 1856, from the same to the same, requesting the remittance of 150l., leaving the balance in their hands; having promised to settle some Christmas accounts.)

HENRY JONES I am a son of the prosecutor, and am a Parliamentary agent, of Great George-street. In Nov. last, I had the note produced in my possession—I received it from the party to whom it is made payable, my brother, William Jones, who is the lessee of a colliery, in Flintshire—I know Cresswell and Co. very well; he had and still has very large transactions with them—I gave my brother the whole of it—he asked me if I had any loose money, and I gave him 300l. on 29th Oct., and 50l. on 1st Nov.—on 4th Jan. he came down to my chambers, and in consequence of what he said I parted with the note, on the understanding that I was to receive the value of it next morning from Ashton, from the prisoner, but I did not receive one farthing of it—this telegraphic communication (produced) came to me on Saturday, 5th Jan., the day after—I never saw the prisoner till the day he appeared at Westminster.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you to have the money on that bill? A. I was to receive the money, because it belonged to me—I understood I was to have the whole of it—I think my brother told me that I should have the

200l. on that day, and the rest at the end of the week—it was not discounted for my accommodation, but for the sake of the regularity of my books—I told him that I ought to have the money—I had just spent several thousand pounds at Christmas, in the purchase of property, and I had only this bill; the prisoner was to remit me the proceeds next morning—I never knew Mr. Tucker till I received a communication from the prisoner, or rather from my brother, written by the prisoner—I have not seen Mr. Tucker since the before we appeared before the Magistrate—his offices are at St. Swithin's-lane, City—Mr. Humphreys has taken means to bring him here, but he is out of town I believe—I am quite sure he would very gladly have come here if he was wanted, because all along he has acted most straightforward and proper; he brought me the notes, and said that I had been unmercifully swindled, both the father and son, but they are not here; there is abundant evidence without.

MR. BODKIN. Have you any knowledge of the debt? A. Yes, as disclosed by the prisoner's schedule in the Insolvent Debtors' Court—my father and I were not in the slightest, parties to any transaction between the prisoner and Mr. Tucker.

JOHN YOUNG CAW . I am sub-manager to the Manchester and Salford Bank I never saw the prisoner to my knowledge, till I saw him before the Magistrate, at Westminster police court—he has no transactions with the bank whatever; I know nothing at all about him—I was at the bank on 5th Jan.—I was sub-manager at that time, and was in attendance at the bank, doing the ordinary business of manager.

Cross-examined. Q. In Jan., were you the under manager of the back? A. Yes, and am still—Mr. L—was the managing director—a person would open an account with both of us, or with either—I do not require to look at the book, I do not know the prisoner—I mean that I know all the customers by sight, certainly all that borrow money of us—the prisoner was not a depositor—Mr. Hugh Shaw, of Winslow is a customer of ours, and has been a long time.

MR. BODKIN. Q. To whom, on 5th Jan., would application be made to discount a 350l. note? A. I should see it—whether such an application was ever made is rather a wide question in a large bank like ours—we never took this bill—it was not offered to us on 5th Jan., not at all; and if it was offered we should not have taken it.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTDIE. Q. Perhaps it was offered? A. Not to my knowledge—I do not know whether it was offered to the managing director—all I can say is, that we never should have discounted it for the prisoner, because we did not know him.


NEW COURT.—Friday, September 19th 1806.



(For Cotes tried this day, see Surrey Case.)

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-908
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

908. JAMES PERKS , stealing 2s. 8d. in money, of George Kendall: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Twelve Months.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-909
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

909. WILLIAM DAVEY , burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of Robert James Warren, and stealing 1 watch, value 13l., and 6 chains, value 11l.; his property.

ROBERT JAMES WARREN . I am a watchmaker, and live in Richard-street, Woolwich. On 3rd Sept., about 9 o'clock in the evening, I was in my shop—I heard a noise in the shop window—I ran Out directly, and law a large hole in the window—the prisoner was just past my window—I seized him, and took these six gold chains and this gold watch from his left hand—I sent for a policeman, he came up, and I gave the prisoner into custody, and gave the policeman the watch and the guard chains—they are my property, and have my mark on them—they were in my window that evening.

JOSEPH ABBOTT . I live at Woolwich. I was opposite the prosecutor's shop that evening—I saw the prisoner break the window, and take some goods out—he put them under his coat—I saw him drop one watch, and that, I believe, was a silver one—it was picked up, I believe, by a butcher—I saw the prosecutor take the prisoner, and take from him this gold watch and chains.

EDWARD COLLINS (policeman). I was on duty in Woolwich, on 3rd Sept, about a quarter past 9 o'clock—I received the prisoner and these goods—the prisoner was sober.

Prisoner. I did not break the window.

(The sergeant of the company of artillery to which the prisoner belonged stated that his character had been but indifferent.)

GUILTY . Aged 40.— Confined Twelve Months.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-910
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

910. HENRY WOODLANDS , feloniously forging and uttering a certificate of marriage.

MR. BODKIN conducted the Prosecution.

WALTER HOCKHART . I am colour sergeant of the fifth company of the eleventh battalion of Royal Artillery. The prisoner was a gunner in that company—he was considered as a single man, up to 4th July—on the 4th or 5th, he presented himself to me as a married man, and wished to be taken before the captain—I took him before the captain, in consequence of that—he said he was married—upon that statement the captain gave him leave to reside out of the barracks, and to have the other privileges of a married man—that was upon condition of his producing his marriage certificate—from that time he slept out of the barracks—a day or two after, I asked him for the certificate, and told him to give it to the pay sergeant, Dundas—he said he had lost them, meaning the lines, bat that he would procure another copy from Greenwich.

JAMES. DUNDAS . I am the pay sergeant of the fifth company of Royal Artillery. About 7th July last, in consequence of what the last witness told me, I went to the prisoner's quarters—he was not there, but I afterwards met him in the street—I told him I required a copy of his marriage certificate—he said he would let me have it—he said they (the lines) were lost, but he would procure them from Greenwich—he said he would bring them the following morning—I told him J should be forced to confine him

if he did not produce them—several days after this I spoke to him again—in the interval he came to me for half a crown, to go to get the certificate—I told him I could not do it—he produced the certificate after I had confined him—that was after reporting to the captain that I had not received it—on 30th July I went to him where he was in confinement in consequence of a communication from a woman who called herself his wife—I told him I required the certificate of his marriage—he produced this certificate, just as it is, with the exception of what is written in red ink—I noticed that the names were written on erasures—I said to him at the time, "You are in a pretty mess now!"—after I had reported to the captain, inquiries were directed to be made, and he was taken to the station house.

ITHIEL PRICE . I am parish clerk of the parish of Stepney. I produce the marriage register book for 1855—in page 242 there is an entry of the marriage of John Brown Williams and Eliza Wilkinson—I was a subscribing witness to it, this certificate was a true copy of that entry—I since I issued it, the name of John Brown Williams has been erased, and the prisoner's name substituted—the date has been altered from 30th May, 1855, to 18th Oct., 1855—it bears the signature of Mr. Eastman, who was curate then, but in Oct. Mr. Eastman was not curate.

Prisoner's Defence (written). "About twelve months ago, while on duty at Woolwich, I met with Maria Wilkinson, widow; about a month after, I was sent to the Crimea, and while away I supported her, by sending her half of my pay, and on my return it was my intention to have got married, as soon as I got the means; knowing my intentions, I obtained leave to live out of the barracks, as a married man, with this my intended wife; but the captain requesting me to show him my marriage certificate, and telling me unless I did he would confine me to the barracks, and not having time allowed to me by the captain to get married and produce my certificate, I had recourse to the following means: my intended wife got permission from a person whom she knew, to get their marriage certificate, and I then caused the man's name to be erased, and placed my own in the place of it; my intentions to my intended wife was fair and honourable, and I had not the least idea that I was doing wrong when I permitted this to be done; I am an uneducated man, I never intended to injure any person by what I was doing.")

(The prisoner received a good character)

GUILTY . Aged 23— Confined Four Days.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-911
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

911. AUSTIN PERKINS was indicted for embezzlement.

MR. MCAUBREY conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS HALSTEAD . I am a master sailmaker, at Victoria Dock, Woolwich. I employed the prisoner on the sail of the yacht called the Little Duchess—that was the only occasion I had employed him—he was to have 2l. for his work—he was to assist in making this mainsail for this yacht, however long it took him—my apprentice's name was Bradley—he worked on the sail with the prisoner, and Perkins iny foreman, the prisoner's father—I had not been acquainted with this man but a very short time—the sail was finished in the beginning of June, I think—there was an agreement that I was to give him 14l., 12l. for the sail, and 2l. for his labour—he came to me, and asked me what I would make a sail for the Little Duchess for—I measured it, and said I would do it for 12l., and he asked me if I would employ him in making it—I said, "Yes "—I was to look for my money to the owners of the ship—he came to me to ask me what I would

I make it for—I had no communication with any other person about it, but the captain came to me several times during the time it was making—the foreman who delivered the bill is not here—his name is Sparkes—this was the only employment that I gave him—(THE RECORDER was of opinion, that under these circumstances the prisoner was not a servant within the meaning of the Act of Parliament.)


Before Michael Prendergast, Esq.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-912
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

912. THOMAS TOWNSEND , unlawfully obtaining 2l.; the moneys of James Peter Bono, by false pretences.

MR. DOYLE conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES PETER BONO . I keep the Royal Marine public house, in Dock-street, Deptford. On 29th Aug. the prisoner came to my house with Mr. Whitewood—I did not know the prisoner before—he called for a pint of ale, which I served him with—the conversation commenced by the prisoners saying to Whitewood, "If you will go with me to the Chatham, and say you know me, you will do me a kindness, and I shall be much obliged to you"—Whitewood answered directly, "I have no objection"—they were drinking and talking, and the prisoner produced this advance note—(This was dated 21st Aug., 1856, for 2l. 5s., payable to William Mennie, thirteen days after the sailing of the ship Same, Captain Coyle, provided the said William Mennie sailed in the said vessel; signed, George Cole, addressed to Alexander Dunn, Lime-street)—the prisoner said the landlord of the Earl of Chatham was going to give him 2l. for it—I read the note; and when I came to the I name of William Mennie, the prisoner said, "That is my brother"—he said, "Well, governor, you can have it if you like; the vessel sailed last Monday"—this was on Friday—I said, "The money can be drawn then"—he said, "Yes; you or anybody can draw the money; if you like to give me 2l. for it you shall have it"—I said, "Has your brother sailed in the vessel?"—he said, yes, he has—I said, "Are you certain of it?"—he said, "Yes, I am; he sailed in it, or I should not bring the note to you, or to any one else, to cash—Whitewood is a neighbour of mine, a tradesman, and he said he knew the man, and whatever transactions he had had with him he had found him upright, and, had he the money by him, he would have cashed the note for him—I believed the statement, and gave him the 2l., and received the note from him—next morning I took the note to Mr. Dunn, in Lime-street, and was refused payment—on the Monday I went down to see if I could see the prisoner, but could not—I gave him the money, believing Mennie was his brother, and that the vessel had sailed on the Monday previous.

Prisoner. I did not say it was my brother; I said it was the man's brother that gave me the paper. Witness. He distinctly told me it was his own brother.

HENRY WHITEWOOD . I live in Old King-street, at the corner of Dock-street, Deptford, and am a carman. I have known the prisoner about four Years and a half—I did not know his name—he was called Bulluck—I always took that to be his name, but it is only a nickname—he came to my house on 29th Aug, and said, "If you will go down with me to the Chatham I can get a note cashed"—I said, "Yes, I don't mind doing it; I know you and I will just mention that I do know you; that is all that I shall do in it"—he wanted me to go and have a pint of ale at Mr. Bono's—I said, "You had better have that at the Chatham when you get the note cashed," however, we went in, and had a pint of ale—while we were drinking the ale, he pulled the note out of his pocket, and put it on the bar—the landlord

read it, and thought it was all right—he said his brother had sailed in the vessel—Mr. Bone said to him, "Are you sure your brother is gone in the vessel?"—he said, "lam certain of it;" and he said, "You may as well have the 5s. as any one else"—I am sure he said that Mennie was his own brother—he said he could get it cashed at the Chatham, and that I was going along with him to get it cashed—he said the vessel had sailed on the Monday previous, and he was certain his brother was aboard.

COURT. Q. How long have you known him? A. Between four and five years—I believe he lives in Church-street—I had not seen him for five months before—when he said that Mennie was his brother, I did not express any surprise—I did not know what his proper name was; I only knew he was called Bullock.

PETER TOUGH . I am clerk to Mr. Dunn, a ship broker, of Limehouse The Samei was chartered by him—she left Gravesend on 26th Aug.—I did not see her; we knew it from the captain's letter—I do not know whether I William Mennie sailed in her—this advance note was presented to me for payment, and I refused it—if I had been satisfied that Mennie had sailed in the vessel it would have been paid at once—there was such a man on board the ship—I have not seen him since the vessel sailed.

COURT. Q. I suppose the vessel went from the Docks originally? A. Yes, and then dropped down to Gravesend—it very often happens that's man is on board at the Docks, and not at Gravesend.

JOHN LOOKER (policeman, L 295). I took the prisoner into custody—11 told him he was charged with obtaining two sovereigns—I asked him where I he got the note from—he said he received it from two strange men—he told me two or three places where he took the note to get it changed, and he did not succeed; and he said he then went down to Mr. White wood, to see if he could get somebody to know him; and then he took it to the Red Cow public house, and gave the money to the strange men; that he was to have had 7s. for cashing it, and they gave him 1s. and a glass of gin—I asked him how he came to represent that his brother was sailing in the vessel—he said he did not.

JOHN SAUNDERS (policeman, R 45). I entered the charge, and read it over to the prisoner—he said, "Well, I got it of two men; I don't know their names, but I know them very well by sight; one of them I know much better than the other, for I was at a sale with him the other day about buying a waggon,"

(MR. PBENDERGAST was of opinion that the proof in this case was defection there being no evidence that William Mennie had not sailed in the vessed)


15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-913
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

913. WILLIAM LAWLESS , unlawfully assaulting Ann Roberts.

ANN ROBERTS . I am the wife of Samuel Roberts, and live at No. 31 Henry-street, Woolwich. On Thursday, 4th Sept., about half past 9 o'clock in the evening, I was sitting on the step of my door, with two lads, children of a neighbour, when the prisoner came up, deliberately pulled down his trowsers, and made water right in front of me, exposing himself—one of the lads went and made fun of him, and the prisoner deliberately came across the road, and struck me a violent blow on the side of the head with the thick part of a whip which he had in his hand—he then tore the front of my bonnet completely off my head, and then struck me again—he then turned round to a little boy, and struck him on the nose with the whip—my cries brought my neighbours to my assistance, and he then struck another female—I

think a man in his sober senses would not have done such a thing, but other say he was perfectly sober.

Prisoner. She said Woolwich that I knocked two teeth out of a boy's heed, and tore her bonnet, and she cannot produce her bonnet, Witness He did knock the teeth out of a little boy who was standing close by—I am only a soldier's wife, and I have not got more bonnets than I have heads I was obliged to get my bonnet repaired, so that it is not in the same state now; it is at home.

GEORGE ELLIOTT . I am fourteen years old. I was standing alongside Mrs. Roberts, and saw the prisoner do what she says, in the middle of the road—a little boy laughed at him, and he came over and struck Mrs. Roberts with the butt end of his whip—he struck her once with his fist, and when he left off striking her he camp and struck me across the nose—I had not said anything to him.

ELLEN FRANCIS . I am a soldier's wife. On 4th Sept., I was in my shop—I heard Mrs. Roberts scream, and went to my door—I saw the prisoner strike her over the head with the thick end of his whip very hard, and he had torn her bonnet right down over her face—he then came towards me—I went into the shop, and he rushed after me, pulled me out by the front of the frock, and struck me several times across the thigh with the thick end of the whip—I had said nothing to him at all—it seemed to me as if the whip was twisted round his hand—a man who was with him told him not to act the fool, that he would get himself into trouble—his trowsers were completely open—he did not appear to be tipsy—after striking me he went and struck a little boy about seven years of age, and knocked his two front teeth right out with the thick end of his whip—he then ran away up the road—I followed him, and kept close to him—he stopped under a lamppost and buttoned up his trowsers—he then went to go into the King's Arms, bat he could not get in for the crowd, and he went back among them, and struck an elderly man over the head and shoulders—some one went into the guard room of the marine barracks, and told them to send out the guard—he then ran into the barrack room, and was secured—he took the end of the whip in his fingers, and said, "There is not a b—soldier in the garrison that can handle a whip like me."

GEORGE HOLLOWAY . I saw Mrs. Francis following the prisoner—he was flourishing his whip about, and striking anybody that came in his way—I pursued him, calling, "Stop thief!" and he ran into the marine barracks.

THOMAS FRANCE . I am a private in the Royal Marines. I was on duty in the guard room—the prisoner came in there with a whip in his hand—I did not see him use it.

WILLIAM M'KENZIE . I was on duty at the artillery barracks, and was sent to the marine barracks to take the prisoner—I told him to come with me, and he came very peaceably—I asked him what was the occasion of his committing this disturbance—he told me he had been greatly insulted by some persons as he was coming home—he appeared to be very excited, but not through the influence of liquor, he was perfectly sober.

Prisoner'a Defence. The reason I ran away was, because I was absent at the time, and it was not my wish to be away from piquet.

(The prisoner received a good character.)

GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Two Months.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-914
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

914. JAMES. PRICE , stealing, on 15th Aug., 2 door locks, value 7s. 6d.; the goods of Robert Smith, fixed to a building.

WILLIAM JOHN GRAHAM On 15th Aug., while I was At work, at half past 7 o'clock, I received some information, and went to an empty house belonging to Robert Smith—I found we lower window open—I went up to the front attic, and found the prisoner behind the door with both his books off, and under his boots were these two looks, which fitted two doors in the house, and had evidently just been taken off—I asked him what he did these—he said that was his business—I got a policeman.

ROBERT SMITH . This house belongs to me—it is at Woolwich, and has just been built—these locks are mine, and were saw on the doors a sort time before.

JAMES WESTBROOK (policeman, R 114). I was sent for to the Royal Artillery Barracks, and took the prisoner into custody.


15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-915
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

915. JAMES PRICE was again indicted for burglary in the dwelling house of William Penfold, and stealing 1 purse, and a cornelian heart, value 7s., and 1s. 1d. in money; the property of Catherine Payne.

CATHERINE PAYNE . I live with Mr. William Penfold, at Charlton. On the evening of 15th Aug., I went into my bedroom a little after 9 o'clock, and found it in great confusion—I had left it some time—I spoke about it to the servant, and it passed on till 11 o'clock, when I went up to bed; I then found the room in worse uproar than before—the house was searched, but 90 one could be found—next morning, about half past 7 o'clock, I went to the empty house adjoining ours, thinking some one might be there, and there saw the prisoner standing behind the door—I lost from my box a purse containing 1s. 1d. and a cornelian heart—my window had been left open, and the prisoner could have got to it from the attic of the next house—I this is my purse and heart.

THOMAS PARSONS . I am a corporal of the 1st battalion of Royal Artillery. The prisoner was brought into the guard room on the morning of 16th Aug., I searched him, and found on him this purse, containing 1s. 4 1/2 d. and this small locket.,

GUILTY . Aged 21— Confined Six Months.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-916
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

916. WILLIAM BROWN , stealing a copper boiler, Value 12s.; the goods of Frederick Charles Johnson, fixed to a building, 4 pieces of carpet, a shirt, and 3 brushes; his goods.

MR. THOMPSON conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM BUTCHEE (policeman, R 85), About a quarter past 3 o'clock on Friday morning, 12th Sept., I was on duty in Powis-street Wool wich, and met the prisoner carrying a bundle; he was about 100 yards from the prosecutor's—I stopped him and asked what he had in it—he said he had got a box—I asked if it was his own—he said, "Yes"—I was not satisfied, and took him to the station—I there found it contained a copper, four pieces of carpet, and some brushes, which I produce.

Prisoner. I met a man who asked me to carry the things, and directly the policeman stopped me, he made his escape. Witness. I did not see any other man, the place was quite clear.

CHABLES FREDERICK JOHNSON . I am a plumber and glazier, in Powis-street, Woolwich. This is my copper, it was fixed in my back wash house,—I saw it safe about 3 or 4 o'clock the previous day; these brushes and carpet are also mine.

GUILTY .* Aged 22.— Confined Nine Months.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-917
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

917. JANE LANGLEY , stealing, on 11th April, 3 yards of satin, and 3 yards of silk, value 12s.; on 24th June, 8 yards of satin, 9 yards of sillsand other articles, value 1l. 11s.; and on 11th July, 2 yards satinet, and other goods, value her goods, value 22s.; the goods of James Master, her master; to which she

PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 19,— Confined Four Months.

Before Mr. Justice Williams.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-918
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

918. ROBERT BAKER was indicted for b—y.

MR. DOYLE conducted the Prosecution, and MR. PAYNE the Defence.

GUILTY Aged 28— DEATH recorded.


Before Michale Frendergast, Esq.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-919
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

919. BENJAMIN NEWLEY was indicated for bigamy.

ANN ZETTAR . I am the wife of peter Zettar, of No. 19, Sidney-street. Bethnal-green I was present at Stepney Church on 19th May, 1828, and aw the prisoner married to Sarah Berry—I have seen her here to-day.

HENRY KEMP (policeman, H 201). I produce a copy of the register of Carriages of Stepney—I compared it with the original, it is correct (food)—I also produce a copy of the register of marriages of fit. Georges, South-wark—I compared that, and it is correct—(This certified the marriage of Benjamin Newley and Jane Locke, on 4th Jan 1856—the first wife gave him into custody.

THOMAS HODGSON . I was present last winter at St George's Church Southwark, when the prisoner was married to Jane Lockie—she is not here to-day—I saw her on Monday; she is very ill, and she said she did not wish to do anything in the case; that she was willing to put up with the consequence, and for him to go home to hid wife—he and his first wife lived very unhappily, she has threatened his life several times.

Prisoners Defence. I did not know that I wag breaking the law; Mrs. Lockie knew I was a married man.

(The prisoner received a good character.)

GUILTY . Aged 46.— Confined One Month.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-920
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

920. MARGARET KIRK was indicted for wilful and corrupt Perjury; to which she

PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 44.— Confined Six Month's.

Before Mr. Justice Witnesses.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-921
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

921. ELIZABETH ANN HOLWELL ; feloniously killing and slaying Elizabeth Ann Holwell, the younger.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution,

THOMAS COOKM I am beadle and constable of the pariah of St. Mary, Newington. From information I received, I went on Wednesday, Aug 20th to No. 11, Thomas-street, Lock's-fields, and entered the room occupied by the prisoner—I saw her lying asleep on, the floor with two children by her side, one living, and one dead; another one sitting on a piece of board with two blocks pf wood, and another walking about the room—it was about half past 2 o'clock in the afternoon—there were no bed clothes, there were a few rags, and the child was lying dead on the floor, on come Backing filled with straw chaff—I tried to awake the mother, but could not and left her, shaking the dead child away; it was in an emaciated state, and quite cold—I found

a basin with some stale pap, or food of that kind, quite sour, but no other provisions—the child's father was waiting at my house—I returned with him, and the prisoner was oat: she came in, and he said to her, "A pretty disgrace you have brought on me; where is the child?"—she did not answer him—he asked her several times, and at last she said, "Mr. Cook has taken it away," meaning me—I then asked her what time she last saw the child alive—she said, "At 2 o'clock," but she meant 2 o'clock the day before—I then asked her at what time she went to bed—she said, "2 o'clock"—I asked her what time the child died, and she said, "2 o'clock "—all three answers were 2 o'clock—she said, "You have taken a bottle away on the sideboard"—I said, "I have, you do not use that"—there was a label "Poison "on it, and "Lotion for the eyes "—the chemist had put that on, and I thought it my duty to take care of it—I said, "You do not use it, you have not used it for some time "—she said, "No, but I wanted to take it"—I said, "What do you want to take it for? it is poison"—she said, "Because I intend to make away with myself—I said that I intended that she should not, and intended to lock her up—she would not go without being carried, and I got the assistance of two policemen, and by her being carried I saw that there was a flow of milk from her breast, which wetted her dress.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did you know anything of the family previously? A. No—the prisoner had been drinking, but was not drank—she was not sober—I have no doubt that she had been drinking; when I laid hold of her arm to try to awake her, I could smell that she had bees drinking spirits.

SUSANNAH SMITH . I am the wife of George Smith, a bed screw maker, of No. 11, Thomas-street, Lock's-fields. The prisoner lodged with me—I saw the child alive in it's mother's arms on the Sunday night—it looked very bad, and I thought it would not live long, and on Tuesday morning about 10 or 11 o'clock, I saw it dead—I cannot say for certain whether I have ever seen her suckle it: yes, I make a mistake, I have—I think it must have been four or five months old—when I saw the child last alive, the prisoner seemed rather stupified; I cannot say that she had been drinking—she appeared sober to me; and I saw her on Wednesday, after it was dead.

Cross-examined. Q. I believe it died on Tuesday morning? A. Yes, at 2 o'clock—I saw her on the Tuesday, between 10 and 11 o'clock in the day, after it's death; no, I think it was Wednesday; I am rather confused, I never was in such a place before—it was on the morning of this child's death; it died at 2 o'clock in the mom ing, and I saw the prisoner about 11 or 12 o'clock lying by it's side; but previous to that I saw her sitting up, that was about 10 o'clock—she was sitting on a tub, we had no conversation; I just went into the room and out again—she was awake—it was later than 11 o'clock when I saw her again—it was between 1 and 2 o'clock—she was then lying asleep on the bed, but I did not notice anything of liquor about her—the youngest child but one had an intermittent fever two or three weeks before, or more—her other children were, I think, healthy—I do not know that they were suffering from measles—I know Mr. Dry very well, but do not know that he attended the child with intermittent fever—I have heard that she sent to him for medicine shortly before the death of this infant—the deceased looked sickly for some time, about a week before it's death—I expressed myself to the mother that I thought it was going into a decline—Sunday night was the last time that I saw it

take the breast—I was in the room on the Monday and saw the mother, but I cannot say whether I saw the child, but it was alive, because it did not die till Tuesday—I have been in and out of the prisoner's room day after day, but cannot say that I ever saw her the worse for liquor.

MR. COOPER Q. Was not she led home on the Monday by two men? A. I did not see her—I never heard or saw her brought into the place, only by what I was told—I never saw her in a state of drunkenness—if she was ever the worse for liquor, I was not aware of it—I am a mother.

MARTHA PRESSY . I am the wife of James Presey, and am the prisoner's sister. I knew the deceased; it's name was Elisabeth Ann, I believe—it was between four or five months old when it died—my sister has not lived with her husband for some weeks past; the first week her husband left her fee had nothing from him, the next week there was 2s., and the week after 14s. (he was ill the first week), half a crown the next week, and the next two weeks 14s.; but out of that she had two or three debts to pay which she had run up when she had nothing from her husband—the child died on Tuesday morning—she was sitting on a chair, she was not tipsy—she had been drinking the week previous, but not at the time the baby died—she worked for me with her needle.

ENOCH DAWSON HOWITT . I am a surgeon. I made a post-mortem examination of the child on the 23rd, I think—it was in a state of extreme emaciation—there were no external marks of violence—there was nothing externally to account for death—I found every organ perfectly healthy, the brain, the liver, and the kidneys—the stomach was collapsed, and remarkably small—the gall bladder was perfectly charged with bile, sufficiently to digest food—the stomach did not contain anything, not even the usual mucus which is secreted—if there had been any nutriment swallowed by this child within twenty-four hours of its death, I should have discovered it—the bowels were in the same condition as the stomach—want of food, starvation, was the cause of its death—I do not know whether I ought to say want of food, I cannot say that food was not given—there may have been some incapacity in the child to take it.

COURT. Q. The child died by reason of nothing coming into the stomach? A. Yes, from inanition; that is my judgment—it might have taken the nipple of the breast, and still not have drawn food—I have known the nervous system arrive at such a condition as to incapacitate a child from receiving food, even if offered; but I do not say that that was the case—there ie frequently paralysis of the muscles of the throat, the swallowing muscles.

MR. COOPER. Q. Might this have been, and you seen no signs of it afterwards A. It is possible—mesenterio disease might or might not be shown—I have never seen the case of which I am speaking—I am speaking of what ie given by others, and as a matter of science.

Cross-examined. Q. Are the appearances on the post-mortem examination quite consistent with death from starvation, or from natural causes? A. It appeared to me death from starvation, the want of nourishment—assuming that the death was caused by inanition, I should say that that had been going on, according to the observations I made, for some weeks—I have met with many cases in which infants refuse the breast, which I cannot trace to any reason, but not at that age; I have known it when they are born, and no one can assign a reason for it to the present day; but I never knew a child refuse it when it has once taken it, unless there was disease—if the nervous energies were weakened, there would be no post-mortem, appearance indicative of that state; it would be out of the power of

science to detect it—it may certainly have existed in this case—I have heard that the prisoner's breasts were full or milk, and it would be a relief to her to suckle the child—if she had been denying the child milk for weeks, she must certainly have given suck to some child, or she would begin to get dry; after three days the breasts would begin to sink; it attains it's height on the third day, and on the fifth or sixth day she would have no milk—in my judgment, she continued suckling the child until a recent period before it's death—I have heard the evidence as to the milk coming from her breasts and therefore it is my opinion that she must have given suck recently, if she had such a full breast as to be overflowing, as the office has stated.

MR. COOPER. Q. How long would the breasts be before the milk would go altogether? A. Three days—is my opinion, the child being without milk for three days would not bring on that emaciated appearance that I saw—it must have been sinking for some weeks, a month, or I should my more—if the mother had given it tuck within two or three days, it could not have been as I saw it—if the mother had a breast of milk, some child must have had suck, but I do not believe this child had—if disorder of the nervous system prevented the child sucking, the mother would remain unrelieved—I am not assuming whether she had any other child to draw the milk—it was evident that this child had not received milk for some time; there was no muscular fibre and no blood when I out into it, and so humours, they were all dried up.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Might the mother's breast, have been relived by mechanical means? A. Yes, it is a very common thing; she could get as air pump from a druggist's by paying 3d., or use a glass and a bottle filed with warm water.

MARTHA PRESSY (continued). I have been in the habit of seeing say sister—she was very often sober, hot was in liquor at times, on account of living unhappily with her husband—she was not often so—I knew her when she lived with him, and have seen her constantly since.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know about the other children having has ill? A. The little girl had been ill two or three months, and Mr. Dry attended her, and the other children have been ill with the measles—this paper (produced by Mr. Sleigh) is in her husband's writing, the whole of it—his conduct towards her is the cause of her not living with him.—she has been suffering for months from most cruel ill usage at his hands—I have seen it myself—the child was gradually sinking away, and her husband told her he thought it was going into a decline—she always treated it, and all the other children, with every care which a mother could, except when she was in liquor—her goods were taken for rent—she had throe beautiful clean beds—their being separated was no fault of hen, it was only his being jealous.

COURT to ENOCH DAWSON HOWITT. Q. Would the condition of the child's nervous system, which caused it to refuse the milk from the mother's breast, also prevent it's accepting other food given by the mother by the hand? A. It would, because the action of swallowing would not allow of anything passing—there might be a state of throat which would prevent any food from finding it's way to the stomach.

COURT to MARTHA PRESSY. Q. How old was the eldest child? A. About two years and a half—there was no other sucking child in the house—my sister told me that the child refused to take food; and I have persons she were at the birth of the child, and likewise her aunt, who know that it wasted away from it's birth; and my sister told me several times that it

would not eat, or suck either—she used to feed it with baked flour—he told me several times that the child's stomach refused food—the last time she said that was about a week before it died—I hare frequently seen her attempt to "feed it with baked flour, which the need to have baked at the baker's; she did on the Wednesday previous to it's dying on the Tuesday, but it did not take much; it took a email quantity—I am married, and have two children I saw my sister offer her breast to the child on the Monday, as it died We next morning, and it would not take it—I do not know how it came that she kept her milk—when she was confined before, she had not any milk in one breast—when the child died she bad a breast full of milk—I do not know how to account for that, if the child would not take the breast, she must hate suckled it at times, but on the Monday, when she offered it, it moved it's little mouth away from the nipple.

SUSANNAH MURRAY . I lire at No. 20, Nelson-place, East-lane. I knew the deceased child—I saw it for two or three days while it was bad—the mother; was sober each time I saw her, and when I laid the child out—I called in about 10 o'clock on the Monday before it died—I did not see her brought home that morning—I was not there at the time—I am married—I have had eight children, and hare nursed A good many beside—I should say that a child will not live three weeks without food; it is impossible for five weeks.

COURT. Q. You went three days before it died; what condition was it in then? A. It was comfortable; it had bedgown on, and was dressed very clean; it was ill—I did not go on purpose; the mother called me in to look at it by accident, when I was in the house—that was ea the Saturday, and it died on the Tuesday—she told me that it was ill; eke said that she thought it was consumptive—I said that I thought it was very bad, and she said that she thought it would not live—I asked her if she had had a doctor, as she had had Mr. Dry to it a little time back—she said, No—I do not think she knew that it was so near death—she said that it took a basin full of food on Monday; and I said that that was no good sign, the child eating so ravenously—she was sober on Tuesday.


Before Michael Prendergast, Esq.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-922
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

922. JANE ANDERSON , unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin: to which she

PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 27.— Confined Four Months.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-923
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

923. FREDERICK COLE was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. CLERK and W. J. PAYNE conducted we Prosecution.

GEORGB NEALR I am a fishmonger, in Richmond-terrace, Walworth. On 16th Aug. the prisoner came, about half past 10 o'clock at night—he bought some oysters and bread, which came to 2 1/2 d.;—he gave me a counterfeit shilling—I put it in my waistcoat pocket—I knew ft was bad before he left the shop, but my attention was drawn away by other customers—he received his change, and left—he was well known to me—he came again, with a female, as near 12 o'clock as possible—he did not come into the shop, the female came in, and she tendered me another counterfeit shilling—I took up the shilling, and told her it was a bad one—she went a few paces from the shop, and went to the prisoner, who was standing next door but one—she said it was a bad one—he appeared a little surprised, and he staggered back to the shop—I told him of the other shillings—he said he had passed no bad money, and he walked away—I followed him, and met a constable—there were several persons following me at that then—I gave

him into custody in a street where many of his companions lived—some one said to him, "Fred, the ding!"—I saw him put his right hand into his pocket, he took out something, and placed it in his left hand, and threw it away—I heard the chink of money being thrown, and I went on my hands and knees to the place where I heard it, and found a bad shilling—the constable took the prisoner, and brought him back past my house to the station—I gave the constable the shilling I had received from the prisoner the one I had received from the woman, and the one I had picked up—the woman had gone away.

JOHN BATTON WISE (policeman, P 223). I was on duty, and the last witness spoke to me, and gave the prisoner in charge—the woman was with him, and she turned away—some one cried out, "Fred, the ding!"— I heard something fall like money—Mr. Neale picked it up—the prisoner said he had passed no bad money—I searched him at the station, and found a bad shilling in his fob pocket—this is it—this is the one the prisoner passed, and this is the one Mr. Neale picked up—the one the woman passed is not here—I gave it to the inspector.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin to the Royal Mint. Then three shillings are all bad, and the one that was dropped is from the same mould as the one that was uttered by the prisoner.

Prisoners Defence. I had been drinking all day; I met this woman, and gave her some drink; the prosecutor said I gave him bad money, and bad me locked up; I do not know whether it was bad; if I had given him 2 1/2 d. he said he would not lock me up.

GEORGE NEALE . I did ask him if he would pay me for my goods—I did not want to have any bother about it—that was when he came back, with the woman—I asked him for the 2 1/2 d. for the oysters and bread.

GUILTY .* Aged 30.— Confined One Year.

Before Mr. Justice Williams.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-924
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Not Guilty > unknown

Related Material

924. MICHAEL GRADY and JAMES MALONEY , assaulting John Doherty, with intent to kill and murder him.—2nd COUNT, with intent to do him some grievous bodily harm.

MR. ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution,

JOHN DOHERTY . I am a private in the 8th Hussars. On 5th Aug, I was living in the Grove, at Peckham—I saw Grady on that evening, about a quarter before 8 o'clock, in the Old Kent-road, and he and I had a few angry words—the first word he said to me was, "Shake hands"—I said "Yes," but we had had a few words about four years ago, before I enlisted—I said, "I will shake hands, but I don't forget you gave me fourteen days' imprisonment;" and I said, "You have been talking a great deal about me while I have been away "—he said, "No "—I said, "Well, let us fight it out, and see who is the best man"—he said no, he was not able to fight me, and he said if I would not let him go, he would give me fourteen cuts as well as the fourteen days—I said, "No, you could not do that," and with that he drew out a bagging hook from under his smock, and struck me across the head unawares—(a bagging hook is the same shape as a sickle but it has not teeth as a sickle has)—I ran away to my mother's, who lives in the bottom part of the house where Grady lives at the top—she was not there—I came away, and got talking to Mrs. Brunnett, and I told her how Grady had served me—while there, Grady came out of his own house—he called me a b—b—, and said he would cut my head open if he had a chance—I went back to his house, and he was pulled in by his wife

—I told him to come out; he did not seem to make any appearance, but kept shouting inside—I hit the door, and drove my hand through the door—made a second hit, and the door went in with me—Grady came out, with the hook in his hand, and make a stroke at me to split me down the head—I put up my hand—I had a piece of paling in my hand—I defended that stroke off—Maloney then came with a piece of wood, a piece of quartering, and he struck me with it between the elbow and the arm—that made me drop the piece of paling—I then ran away again, and I received two more strokes on my head with the bagging hook—they are here now—Grady came after me through the crowd, with his two hands on the hook, and made a blow to split my head—I stooped my head, and received the blow between my shoulders—I fell down, and I heard him say that he would cut the head of any other b—that came after him, a policeman or any one else—I then became senseless.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. How long have you known Grady? A. About five years—I have been in the army three years—I have just returned from the Crimea—what I got the fourteen days for was, Grady and I had been drinking and got tipsy—I was taking him home, and his sister came and struck me, and gave me in charge, and I struck the policeman when she gave me in charge—on 5th Aug., I had had a drop to drink—I was not that drunk but I knew what I was doing—I came to Grady in the Kent-road, I was not the first to speak; he was—I was walking quietly—I did not notice Grady and Portelle, till I came to them—I did not stop them, I walked along side of them—I walked with my two hands down—as soon as I came up to him he spoke to me—he said, "Halloo! Jack, shake hands"—I shook hands, and said I had not forgotten the fourteen days—I asked him to fight—I did not strike him, it would have been cowardly to strike a man, and not tell him what for—I did not put myself in a fighting attitude, my two hands were down—I will swear I did not strike him—I will pledge my oath that he took out that weapon without any provocation on my part—I did not threaten him by any gesture—I asked him to fight fair with our two hands, and he said, "No "I did not strike him—I said, "You are no man to get talking of me when I was far away, and could not take my own part "—he used that hook as a defence against me, but I had nothing but my two hands—I had no stones in my hand, nor had I afterwards—he did not leave me and go to the Orchard—he lives in Peckham-orchard, I believe—this happened in the Old Kent-road, but we walked on about five minutes—I did not keep challenging him to fight, I only asked him once—he did not try to avoid me—he might try to walk faster, or to get behind—we were talking for the five minutes we were on the road—I was sticking to him, and trying to fasten a quarrel on him—I challenged him once to fight—we all walked a slow pace; he did not try to walk faster than I did—I got first to Peckham-orchard—half an hour, or three quarters of an hour elapsed between this first quarrel in the Old Kent-road, and our getting to Peckham-orchard; that was between the time he first struck me, and the second time he struck me—he went into his house—he lives up stairs—what part he was in I do not know—it was the bottom door that I broke in—I pulled the paling out of the ground, and with the piece I went to break into the house—I did not strike the prisoner directly, I broke the door—he came out with the hook in his hand—very likely I had time to strike him, but I did not—when I broke the door I meant to see if he would fight me.

RICHARD AMOS . I live at No. 9, Blue Anchor-lane, in the Orchard, Peckham. On 5th Aug., I was coming by the Blue Anchor, towards my

home—I met the prosecutor—he had his two hands at the back of his head—when I got to Grady's door, I saw a mob—I said "What is the matter!"—I saw Grady, and a little boy said to me, "Dick, do not see what he has got under his arm?"—I looked, and saw Grady had got a hook—I heard him say, "Any b—man that comes here, I will serve him as I have done the other"—that was all I saw.

MARY ANN AMOS . I am the wife of the last witness. On 5th Aug there was a row against my house, about half past 8 o'clock—I saw the prosecutor's head bleeding—he ran to Grady's door and bunt in the panel—he then ran to the opposite fence, pulled out a pale, and went to Grady's window—I then went for the policeman.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you see the soldier burst the door in altogether? A. No, it was the bottom panel.

ELIZABETH BRUNNETT . I live in the Orchard, at Peckham. On 5th Aug., I saw the prosecutor and Grady, about 7 o'clock, in Peckham-fields they were quarrelling—I went away with a friend of mine—I saw no more of them then—when I got home the prosecutor was returning from the next gate to me, and he began to pull down my fence—I begged him not to do so, and he left off and went with me to my gate, and was talking to me—Grady came out of his gate, which is two doors from mine—the prosecutor hearing his voice, turned from me and went to Grady's door—I heard the door broken very shortly after; and soon after that Grady and the prosecutor fought—the prosecutor had a pale in his hand, and Grady had a hook—soon after the prosecutor ran by my place, and Grady after him—Grady gave a jump, and sent the hook into the prosecutor's back—I saw the prosecutor guarding himself with the piece of paling.

Cross-examined. Q. Did not the prosecutor take this pale in his hand before he broke the door? A. I did not see the door broken, I heard it—when I saw him he was pulling the paling at my place—I spoke to him—he left my palings and went to another, I believe.

REBECCA GEORGE . I am the wife of Richard George, he lives in the Orchard, at Peckham. On 5th Aug., I saw the prosecutor between 8 and 9 o'clock in the evening, coming through the passage leading from Back-walk—he was bleeding—he passed Grady's door and went to the next door, and was talking to Mrs. Brunnett—Grady came to his door, and his wife pulled him back again—Grady came out again, and made use of bad language—ths prosecutor hearing his voice, turned to the palings—he pulled up a pale, and struck it against the door—the door dew open, and they were both in the house; they both came out, struggling together—they fought outside the gate as long as the soldier had got anything to protect himself—the soldier then ran away—Grady ran after him, and made a jump through the people to strike at the soldier—the soldier reeled, and I saw no more of him-Grady came back and said he was the boy that could do it—the soldier was using the paling to defend himself, he was swinging it backwards and forwards, and Grady was using the hook to cut at him.

EDWARD COUSINS . I live at No. 5, in the Orchard, at Peckham. The first I heard was the rattle springing—I came out, and stood at the end of Mrs. George's fence—I saw the soldier getting up from Grady's door—he walked away, and Grady went after him—the soldier turned round with the pale—Maloney ran after Grady with a bit of wood about two feet long, and as Grady was going to strike the soldier with the book, Maloney struck the soldier on the arm, and made him drop the pale; that was all I saw.

Cross-examined. Q. You did not see Maloney hit him again? A. No; only one blow.

ROBERT ADDIS . I live at No. 12, in the Orchard, at Peckham. I picked up a sickle in my garden—it was quite new—I gave it to a woman who came and asked me for it.

JOSIAH BLOOMFIELD . I am a surgeon, and live at No, 19, Grove-terrace, Peckham On 6th Aug., I was taken to a house in the Orchard; I saw this soldier—he had some extensive wounds on his head—the scalp was cut through—there were three distinct cuts on the scalp, about three inches long, and another cut between the blade bones, over his back—that was about the was length—he was very faint, and had lost a great quantity of blood—I they were incised wounds, such as might be made with a reaping hook—he was in great danger.

JOHN MORRIS (police sergeant, P 86). I took Grady—he said he had done it in his own defence.

THOMAS HAYDON (policeman, P 98). I took Maloney—he said he was my sorry for it, he was at the house of the other prisoner, and he saw the row there, and he trade the soldier with the piece of wood, in defence of Grady, Witness for the Defence.

MICHAEL PORTELLE . I am acquainted with Grady and the prosecutor—I on 5th Aug. I went with Grady to buy a sickle—we bought one a-piece to go to the harvest next morning—on the way home we met the soldier, in the Kent-road, by the Green Man public house, about a mile from Peckham-orchard—the soldier was standing on the footpath—I said to Grady, "Doherty is here"—we walked pretty fast, and passed him by—Doherty followed us—he came up, and Grady asked him to shake hands—Doherty said, "I am not going to shake hands with a thing like you, that gave me fourteen days"—he said, "I will hare satisfaction for the b——fourteen days"—he stopped him, and I went between them—I said to Doherty, "You are drunk "—he said, "No, I an not; you are a——fool to say I am"—I went on with Grady, and Doherty came op and stopped him again, and said, "You can't go till I have satisfaction for the b——fourteen days you gave me in prison "—Grady said, "I am going to harvest in the morning; I don't want to have anything to do with you; I can't fight you; I have had a hard day's work, and you a good dinner of bread and beef "—Doherty said, "You must fight me here "—he drew his sickle, and Doherty ran across the road, and took up some stones in his hand—I said to Grady, "Get on as fast as you can "—Doherty came again, and said, "Tell me, are you man enough to fight me? can you fight me?"—Grady said, "No "—Doherty was then talking to me—I said, "Be quiet "—he then left me, and struck Grady on the face—this was pretty near Peckhan—orchard—Grady then drew the sickle, and knocked the cap off Doherty and Doherty knocked the cap off him—I took up Grady's cap, and said, "Don't use that sickle "—Grady ran, and Doherty can as fast as he could ever the bridge—I took Grady a different road, and as I was going I met a policeman, and I spoke to him—I went with Grady to his own house—I had seen Grady use the sickle, but I cannot say where he hit him—I saw his cap fall off—before the blow with the saw Doherty had struck Grady—I went home with Grady, and after that I saw Doherty in the court, and he said he would stop in the court and watch him, and he said if he had his b—sword he would cut his head off—I went in, and gave Grady his supper, and left him, and as I came back the door was broken in.

Cross-examined by MR. ORRIDGE Q. You saw the soldier ran after

Grady? A. Yes, when he saw him he came close on him, and the solidier Struck Grady in the face with his fist—Grady drew his sickle, and made a stroke; whether he hit him I cannot say—I went into Grady's house, and gave him his supper—when I came back, I saw the door broken in—I went out in the court, and stopped till the row was over.

GRADY— GUILTY of unlawfully Wounding. Aged 27.— Confined Six Months.


15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-925
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

Related Material

925. JAMES MALONEY was again indicted for unlawfully assaulting John Doherty.

MR. ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN DOHERTY . On 5th Aug. the prisoner was in Grady's house, and when Grady came and struck me with the hook, the prisoner struck me on the arm, which made me drop the piece of wood I had.

Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. At that time you were fighting with Grady? A. Yes.

EDWARD COUSINS . I saw this row on 8th Aug.—I was in my own house, I and heard the rattle—I came out, and saw the prisoner stand at Grady's door, with a piece of wood—he followed Grady, and struck Doherty on the arm—Grady was fighting Doherty, and Doherty was defending himself with the pale.

Cross-examined. Q. Where was the blow struck? A. On the arm, the only blow that I saw.

THOMAS HAYDON (policeman, P 98). I took the prisoner—he said he struck the soldier with a small piece of wood, and he was very sorry for it.

GUILTY. Aged 16.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury ,— Confined

fourteen Days.

Before Michael Prendergast, Esq.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-926
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation; Guilty > with recommendation; Guilty > with recommendation

Related Material

926. WILLIAM HAWTHORNE WILLIAM COOK , and CHARLES FOWLER , unlawfully and maliciously setting fire to a certain shed belonging to Jamett Tressam Burke, with intent to injure him.

MR. MACENTEER conducted the Prosecution.

JAMBS TRESSAM BURKE . I am an India rubber manufacturer, and have a shed for a manufactory on the banks of the Grand Surrey Canal, at Peckham. I went there on Sunday, 31st Aug., and found my premises had been destroyed by fire—the value of the property destroyed was from 100l. to 150l—I do not know any of the prisoners.

EDWARD SMITH (policeman, P 378). I went to the banks of the Surrey Canal on 31st Aug., and saw this establishment was burnt down—I went to the house of Hawthorne—I did not see him—I waited about an hour and a half in the street, and he was pointed out to me—I asked him if his name was Hawthorne—he said, "Yes"—I told him he was charged, with other boys, with setting fire to a shed on the banks of the canal—he said he had nothing to do with setting it on fire, though he had seen it—I afterwards went to Cook's house, and found him in bed—I told him he was charged, with other boys, with setting the place on fire—he said he had nothing to do with it, though he had been playing about all that afternoon, and he had seen it—I apprehended Fowler on the next day—I asked him if his name was Charles Fowler—he said, no, it was not—I said I had reason to believe it was, and I told him what he was charged with—I he said he had been there, but he had nothing to do with the fire—I told him again that I believed his name was Charles Fowler—he said, "That is near enough."

JOHN GERRARD . I shall be seventeen years old in Oct.; 1 lire at No. 36, Cooper's-row, Old Kent-road. On Sunday, 31st Aug., I was playing in a field near Surrey Canal; I saw the three prisoners there—I know them as being about the street—I am sure they were there—they were gambling and tossing with money—Cook lost his money, and I heard him say, "What a lark it would be to set this place on fire!"—it was then about half past 4 o'clock—they then went across the field, over the ditch, and into the shed—when Cook said that, they were about fifty yards from the shed—he did not point to the place—it was on the same side that they were, only they had to cross a ditch—they all three went into the shed—I went after them, to see what they were going to do—I old not go into the shed—I stood on the bank of the canal—I looked into the shed—Cook had said this quite loud before me—when he said, "What a lark it would be!" the other two made answer, and said, "Yes, we will do it"—I could see them when they were in the shed—I saw Fowler strike a lucifer, and give it to Hawthorne—Cook scraped up some shavings, and Hawthorne made a hole in the middle, and put the lucifer in it—I saw the smoke come from the shavings—the prisoners all went off together running—the fire was towards the back of the shed, close to the wood—I am sure of that—I did not remain any longer—I spoke to Smith, and he and I ran away—Smith had been playing there before, and after I came across the ditch, I saw Smith again, and I pointed it out to him—I turned round afterwards, and saw the flames, after we were running—we had run about 100 yards then I turned round and saw the flames—the shed was not burnt down altogether, there is a piece of it standing up now—I did not go back to look at it, I went home.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Do you often play about there! A. Yes, with other boys, not with these boys—Smith lives in Mead-street, Camberwell—I live with my father, who is a table cover painter—my mother lives there too—I have one brother older than me, and two younger—they do not play with me there—about half a dozen boys play with me there sometimes—we do not play at pitch and toes—we play at overing backs, and all manner of things—I sometimes get into scrapes—I have been in prison; that is two years ago—I was in prison one month for stealing apples out of a garden—I took about ten apples—I had no other boys with me then, I was alone—there were no other boys but Smith with me on the day this fire happened—he did not hear what the prisoner! said about this place—he ran on with some other boys—he came up when the shed was set on fire—he had not come over the ditch—he was about ten yards from the shed—I had gone over the ditch again when I saw him—this shed was a close shed, with a door to it—the door is next to the canal—I should say the shed was about fifty yards long, and about three yards wide—I do not know whether the prisoners saw me when they were in the shed—they saw me when one of them said, "What a lark it would be!—when they went over the ditch, I went after them, and made believe to be looking in the canal, and I turned and looked into the shed—the door was open—the prisoners could have seen me if they had looked—I ran to my father's, without telling anybody, except Smith—I heard something about a reward of 20l. for anybody who would tell who set the place on fire.

COURT. Q. When did you give the information? A. The fire was put out about half past 4 o'clock on the Sunday, and I saw the policeman about half past 5, and I told him.

COURT to EDWAHD SMITH Q. When did this boy tell you anything about it? A. On the Sunday evening, after the fire had been put out—I did not see any printed paper, or hear of any reward.

JURY. Q. When did you let the prosecutor know? A. On the next morning I let him know I had two prisoners—I do not know who told him about the fire.

COURT to MR. BURKE. Q. Who told you of this fire? One of my men, who resides near there—I do not know of any paper offering a reward.

JOHN BENJAMIN SMITH . I was in the field on that Sunday—Gerrard spoke to me, and said the shed was on fire, and I saw it all in a blaze—I saw all the three prisoners running away.

Cross-examined. Q. Had you been playing about there before? A. I had a little time before, but I went and sat down in the middle of the field by myself—I afterwards saw some more boys, and want and looked at them they were springing up money—I did not do so; I had no money—I am a tear boy—I receive 7s. a week for my mother, and 6d. for myself—I received that on Saturday night—I had not lost it; I went and bought some powder and shot, and was going out with my master shooting, but my master did not get up—I have the powder and shot at home now, and I bought 3d. worth of cape—I had a gun to fire off—I did not carry the powder about with me, nor the gun—the policeman afterwards came to me at the factory where I work, on the Friday, and I had to go up on the Saturday—I shall be seventeen next month—I did not tell any one about this—I saw one man with some donkeys; I did not tell him—there was plenty of water in the canal—the nearest house was a field and a half off—I same boys who were playing and larking—some of them were at the end of the field, and tome in the middle—I cannot tell what Gerrard was doing when he came to me—my back was towards him—I had seen him tea minute before, about fifty yards from the field—I was sitting down when he came to me, looking at some boys playing—J did not see whether they left their prisoners to go to the fire—Gerrard was walking when he came to me—the prisoners ran right across the field—they cut a comer, and went out—I did not run after them, and call to stop them—I did not want to run after them; I ran home—I was not with Gerrard in the apple orchard.

(Hawthorne and Fonder received good characters.)


COOK— GUILTY . Aged 14.


Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor and Jury.— confused Two Months.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-927
VerdictsGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > with recommendation
SentencesImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

927. JOHN HARDING and AUSTIN BARRY , burglariously breaking and entering the warehouse of Charles Thorpe, and stealing therein 52lbs. weight of brocade, value 16l.; his goods: Harding having been before convicted: and RICHABD BAYLIFF , feloniously receiving the said goods: to which

HARDING PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 22.—(See next case.)

BARRY PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Nine Months.

MR. LILLET conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS SPARKES . I am foreman in the warehouse of Mr. Charies Thorpe, a paper stainer, in Barnham-street, Tooley-street, Southwark. It is a ware-house—no one lives there—on the night of 28th Aug. I left the premises at 20 minutes past 11 o'clock—I returned on the morning of the 29th at 10

minutes before 6 o'clock—I found the premises had been broken into, and I missed a quantity of brocade—I found fifty-two empty boxes; each had contained a pound, and they had been full before—I sent to the policeman.

Cross-examined by MR. MACENTEER. Q. Did you go to the premises of the prisoner Bayliff? A. Yes, after the 28th, Harding and I went with the policeman—I saw brocade there, but I could not say that it was our's—breaded is used by paper stainers—I know Bayliff to be a paper stainer.

COURT. Q. Where are his premises? A. In Hoxton Old Town—I went there on the Tuesday after the robbery—the robbery was on we Thursday night or Friday morning.

AUSTIN BARKY (the prisoner). I was charged with having committed this robbery; I gate myself op, and pleaded guilty, under a promise.

Cross-examined. Q. Who made you the promise? A. Mr. Thorpe's fore-man, and Mr. Thorpe likewise.

COURT. Q. The indictment was read over to you, and you pleaded guilty A. Yes.

MR. LILLET. Q. On the might of Thursday, 28th Aug., did you see Harding? A. Yet, and went with him to the premises of Mr. Thorpe—we entered the premises, and took some of the brocade—I do not know the number of boxes, I should say about half a cwt—Harding went for a cub brought it near the premises, and pot the brocade in—it was about half put 1 or 2 o'clock in the morning—Harding waited outside, and I and a stranger whose name I do not know, got inside—we went with it to Holy-well lane Shoreditch, where I live—I took the brocade cost of the cab, and pet it on the stairs in our horn—my mother would not allow it to be in the room—I then went to a coffee house—the brocade was in a wrapper when we took it away, and it was placed in a basket—Harding took away, and I went with him to Robins—it was then about half past 1 o'clock it the day—the basket was carried swayon Harding's head—he went with it to No. 4, Britannia-gardens—it was left there, at the house of Robins—I did not go into Kobins's, I stopped at the corner of Britannia-gardens—I saw Harding go into Kobins's horse—I could see the door—this was about 1 o'clock—I remained there, outside the house, till Robin came—he came soon after—he looked very frightened, and was all in a tremble—he brought Be four half crowns.

COURT. Q. Robins came there; did he say something to you? A. Yes, he gave this 10s. to me and Harding—that was outside, at the corner of Britannia-gardens.

MR. LILLEY. Q. What Ald you do? A. We went and' had some dinner; we were all very hungry—we had a pint of beer—we went as far as Hoxton Old Town, I believe they call it—I do not know the sign—after dinner, we went to a house near the toll gate, Kingsland-road, and Harding said, "Here is Robins coming," and about 4 o'clock I saw either Bayliff or Kendrick, I will not be certain which—the prisoner Bayliff is something about the same in stature as the man I saw with Robins—I saw Robins—I saw Robins and another man—it was in consequence of what Robins said that I went to that public house near the toll gate.

COURT. Q. You went to Hoxton, and then went to a public house near the toll gate? A. Yes, in Kingsland-road—there was me, and Harding, and Robins, the stranger who was engaged in the robbery, and another stranger—I was outside the house—I saw Robins give Harding some money—the other man was At that time leaning on the counter, taking some ale.

MR. LILLET. Q. Did you hear anything said? A. No—I did not see

how much money was given—Harding gave me 7s. 6d. of that money—I did not see sufficient of that money to say the amount—I am sure of that Harding came out, and said he had got the remainder of the 27s.—I had had before about 27s. from Robins—that was the proceeds of the robbery of the brocade—after that, Harding and I parted—I went home—I gave myself up voluntarily, on the Tuesday afterwards, I think it was—I went to Bermondsey station, and saw the inspector, and made a voluntary statement.

COURT. Q. Did you think you did right? A. Yes—Harding's brother I had lost his situation through it—Harding told me his brother had got the sack through it—I did not want more money—Harding's brother told me, if I did not give information he would give information to the police.

Cross-examined. Q. You say, when you went to the gardens, you saw no female there? A. No—I never went into the house—I was six or eight I yards from it, or more, in the gardens—I could just see the door—Robins I came soon after, and he looked very frightened—he gave me no message from Bayliff, not a word—he gave me the four half crowns, after some bargaining—when I saw the two men, I would not undertake to swear that one was Baylile.

COURT. Q. Did Robins give you the four half crowns, as if it was his own transaction? A. Yes, part of the 27s.—Harding told me that 27s. was the sum agreed upon—that was the sum I understood he was to receive—I do not know at all who the man was that was at the public house near the toll gate, who was taking some ale—it was either Bayliff, Kendrick, or some one else—his back was turned to me—I was outside the house—I heard from Robins and from Harding that the money to be paid was 27s.—Robins told me 27s. from himself; not from his master—he said nothing about his master, nor about Bayliff.

ELIZABETH ROBINS I am the wife of John Robins, and live at No. 4, Britannia-gardens, Hoxton—James Robins is my husband's brother. On 29th Aug. I saw Harding and Barry, about a quarter before 1 o'clock—Harding brought a parcel—Barry came with him to the door—I am ran they both came to the door—it was open—Harding just put one foot into the passage—he brought a basket, and in it was a bundle—I did not see what was in the bundle—one of them said, "Put that away"—it was about a quarter to 1 o'clock when they brought the basket—I saw Bayliff afterwards—he came to the house about a quarter past 1 o'clock—he came with a hone and cart—James Robins took the bundle out of the basket, and gave it to Bayliff in the cart, and Bayliff drove away—Bayliff did not come into the house.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you see him give the bundle to Bayliff in the cart. A. No—the cart was at the end of the garden—it is a footpath to go to the garden—the cart stood in the street—I saw the cart stand at the end of the gardens—Bayliff came with James Robins to take the bundle to the cart—I did not hear Bayliff tell him to take it to the cart—I do not know a person named Kendrick—I do not know the difference between Kendrick and Bayliff—it might have been Kendrick I saw.

COURT. Q. Did you know Bayliff before? A. I had seen him on other occasions—I am almost positive it was Bayliff I saw that day—I would not take my oath—I was not close enough to see him—I never saw Kendrick—I was at the window when I saw him pass, but I went to the gate, and saw him going along—I thought it was Bayliff—I only saw the man's back—I did not see the face of the man at all that came that day.

JOHN ROBINS . I am the husband of the last witness, and live at No. 4,

Britannia-gardens. About middle day, on 29th Aug., I saw a bundle there, containing brocade—I saw the same bundle delivered to Bayliff—I waistcoat in the house when the bundle was left—I know who took it away—my brother James took it out of the house—I was up stain, at the first floor room—the bundle had been down stairs—I saw the bundle when I came home to dinner, after it was left—I was up stairs when it was taken away—I did not see my brother take it out of the house—I saw him go up the pathway that leads to the gardens—I saw from the first floor window.

COURT. Q. Had he any one with him. A. No—my brother walked along with the bundle, and no one with him—I saw him walk along without any one—he took it to the bottom of the gardens, and there was Bayliff in his cart—I could distinctly see his face—I could not exactly say what distance it was; it may be fire tunes the length of this Court—I was not on the first floor then, I went down to get some beer, at the Red Lion, Hoxton—I did not go by the cart, I went the contrary way—I distinctly saw Bayliff at the end of the gardens—I left to get the beer, just when the cart was standing there; then I looked—I am quite sure I had a distinct view of his face—I saw him on the shafts of the cart—I took him to be Bayliff—I do not know that I saw him so as to enable me to swear it was him—I do not think I could—I do not know whether it was Bayliff or not.

Cross-examined. Q. Is there not a long walk to go down! A. Yes, about five times the length of this Court—I am sure I cannot say whether it is 200 yards—the man that I suppose was Bayliff was in the cart—my brother brought the parcel out, and gave it, as I suppose, to Bayliff in the cart

COURT. Q. Are you quite sure that your brother carried it down to the cart himself? A. Yes—I only saw my brother carrying it—I could not undertake to say it was Bayliff in the cart.

MR. LILLET. Q. Can you drive to the door of No. 4? A. Yes, I afterwards saw the cart at the door of No. 4, and Bayliff was in it then.

COURT. Q. What, after the parcel was put in the cart, was it brought to the door. A. Yes, that was after I had fetched the beer—I was about two minutes going for the beer, and when I got back I went up stairs, and saw the cart, as I was eating my dinner—I do not know what it was there for, it was standing—I knew the hone and cart, I had seen it several times before—when the cart was at the door, my brother was out at the door, standing talking to Bayliff—my brother did not get into the cart.

MR. MACENTER, Q. Where do you live! A. At No. 4, Britannia-gardens—I and my wife and my brother live there.

WILLIAM ROBINS . I live at No. 73, Golden-lane. On Friday, 29th I Aug., I was at the house of my brother James, No. 4, Britannia-gardens—the bundle was in the passage—I could not go in without seeing it—Elizabeth Robins told me what they had said about hiding it away—I looked in the bundle and saw gold brocade—I went out of the house as soon as I had seen it—I went over to the White Hart—I returned and saw Harding and another young man in the gardens talking together—I went in and my brother John came in about five minutes afterwards—I came back about 10 minutes past 1 o'clock—I had been out to inquire about some work—when I came back I saw the parcel where I had left it—I remained in the house about an hour—I saw Bayliff at the bottom of the gardens—my brother James took the bundle on his shoulder—I went to the bottom of the gardens to see what time it was, and where the bundle went to—it was then about 25 minutes past 1 o'clock—my brother gave the bundle to

Bayliff in the cart—Bayliff was standing on the shafts of the cart—my brother James put it in the cart—he came into the house, and stopped about an hour to eat his dinner—the cart drove away—it did not come to the house again.

COURT. Q. then if anybody has said that the cart came to the door afterwards it is not true? A. No; I saw it at the end of the gardens—it did not come there afterwards—my brother John went out and brought in a pot of beer—I got some beer in the parlour adjoining the passage, with my brother James Robins—Bayliff was not then in the cart at the door—he was gone—John Robins never pointed out the cart to me at the door—I the cart never came back with Bayliff in it to the door—it went down Pit—I field-street, right away from our house, down Pitfield-street which leads to Old-Street-road.

Cross-examined. Q. How cur is your house from your brother's? A. About one mile—I work for myself—on that day I had an order sent to me for some work, and I went there about it—when my brother came in I with the beer, the cart was gone—I am a painter and paper-hanger—I have been a paper-stainer—everything of this sort comes in the way of my trade—my brother John is a marbler by trade—he lives at No. 4, Britannis-gardens—that is the house of my other brother—there are two rooms in that house—they have one room each—James has been lodging there five years, the other about twelve months—we three brothers are not often in the habit of meeting there—I have not met them there before, only on Sunday.

MR. LILLET. Q. while you were indoors in what room were you? A. In my brother James's room—the window was wide open—I could see all over the gardens.

COURT. Q. Are you quite sure that the man you saw wan Bayliff? A. Quite certain—I was standing at the gate of No. 4, when I saw him on the shaft—that gate is about eighty yards from where the cart was standing-it might not be quite to far—I had seen Bayliff on several occasions before—I saw his face.

JAKES ROBINS . I live at No. 4, Britannia-gardens. I was in the employ of Bayliff—on Friday, 29th Aug., near dinner time, Bayliff came in the shop and told me to go home and get my dinner, as there was something left there for him—I went home and found a basket containing a parcel—I do not know what was in the parcel—I did not see what was in it—it was just between the door and the window—there is not a yard between the street door and the window—I saw Bayliff in Britannia-gardens from twenty minutes to, half an hour afterwards—that would be about 30 minutes past 1 o'clock—I saw him at my gate—there is a garden in front of the house, and a gate at the end of it—he had nothing with him; he had walking—he gave me four half crowns and told me to give that to Harding, or to the man, I will not be certain which—he told me he had got the out at the bottom, and that he had come to take the parcel—I then took the parcel and went to the bottom of Britannia-gardens—I carried the parcel to the cart, which was at the end of the gardens in Hoxton New Town—I gave the parcel to Bayliff as he was standing on the shaft—I then west hone to my dinner—after I had had my dinner I met Harding—he paid to me "Tell my partner that Bayliff will only give 27s. for it"—Bayliff had told me to go to Harding, or the man, I will not be certain which, and he had given me four half crowns to give to Harding or the man.

COURT. Q. Did he tell you to give it to the man that brought the parcel? A. No; it was, I rather think, to Harding—Harding came, and he said

"Tell ray partner," or "Tell my pal he will only give 27s. for it"—I went to a little walk, called Pimlico-walk—I saw Barry, and told him what Harding had told me, and Barry said, "That mint do "—I communicated that as from Bayliff—I said that to Barry.

MR. LILLEY. Q. Had you seen Harding at Mr. Bayliff's workshop? A. Not that day—I had seen him about—he lives in Hoxton—I had seen him several times speaking to Bayliff—I did not deal at all in this matter—I bad nothing to do with it.

COURT. Q. How was it you entered into each a matter if you were it get nothing by it? A. I told Barry that Bayliff would only give 27s. for it.

MR. LILLET. Q. Are you sure that Bayliff told you that he would only give 27s.? A. No; I told Barry as from Harding—I did not say that Herding said so—Harding had told me to say to Barry that Bayliff would only give 27s. for it—I gave the 10s. to Barry—I told him and Harding that Bayliff would meet them at 3 o'clock in the afternoon—Bayliff had told me that—when he gave me the 10s. to give them, he told me to tell them that he would meet them at 3 o'clock in the afternoon, at or near the Gloucester Arms public house—after dinner I went with Mr. Bayliff to the outside of the Gloucester Anns—I there saw Barry and Harding about half past 3 o'clock.

COURT. Q. Ton saw Bayliff with the cart, at the bottom of the walk A. Yes—I took the parcel to him there, and he went away in the cart—he afterwards brought the cart up to my door.

Q. Why, did not he go away in the cart with the parcel? A. Yes—he went away down Pitfield-street—it might be about 20 minutes after 1 o'clock when he went, and he came back about 10 minutes past 2 o'clock—he said to me, "Jump up," or something of that, and I got in the cart, and rode to the workshop.

MR. LILLET. Q. At half past 3 o'clock, you and Bayliff went to the Gloucester Arms? A. Yes; then I, and Bayliff, and Harding took a wall: down Gloucester-street, and I saw Bayliff give Harding something—I saw the money in his hand—then I, and Bayliff, and Harding went to another house in the same street—on that occasion I saw Barry, he was at least 100 or 150 yards from where we were—we had something to drink there, and then I and Mr. Bayliff returned to the workshop together.

JURY. Q. Was the bundle in the cart when the cart came back again to your door? A. No, the cart was altogether empty.

MR. LILLET. Q. What became of the basket? A. It was left at my place—I afterwards took it myself to Mr. Bayliff's workshop, and left it there.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you a workman in the employ of Mr. Bayliff? A. Yes—I live in Britannia-gardens—I have two rooms—my brother and his wife live with me—he has one child—he has been with me seven or eight months—my other brother is very seldom with me—he is a paper-stainer; he is learning painting—on this occasion of my going there, one of my brothers was there, and one was not—William Robins was not there, he was gone to the White Hart, Hoxton, he had a job to do there—he had been at my place previously, and he returned afterwards—both my brothers were there at the time I took the bundle down to the cart—my brother William lives in Golden-lane; he is doing jobs on his own account—I cannot tell at all when he had been there last before this—he had not been at my place for six months, I suppose—on this occasion I was perfectly unconscious of doing anything wrong—I was perfectly calm and collected; if any man were to swear I was greatly confused, he would say what is not true—I do not

think the cart was 100 yards off—when I took the bundle, I carried it down straight to the cart, and Bayliff was in the cart—if a man swore that I never mentioned Bayliff's name, it is not true—my two brothers were not before the Magistrate—I mentioned to Mr. M'Intosh if he wanted my relations—I did not state at my first examination that my brothers could furnish evidence—I first suggested bringing these two brothers when my brother went up with his wife—I have not known Harding a considerable time, I know his brothers—I know three or four by sight—I have seen Harding along with Bayliff—if it has been sworn that this cart never came back, it is a positive falsehood—if anybody was in the house they must have I seen it, if they were looking out of the window.

COURT. Q. Where was William? A. I am not certain whether he was in the house, or whether he was gone to the White Hart—he might have gone to his job—I do not remember that Mr. M'Intosh told me I should want some witnesses to corroborate my story—Bayliff gave me 10s.; that was all be gave me at any time—he never told me what he was to give for it—when I put my coat and hat on I went home, and Bayliff came and said, "Give this to Harding," or "the man "—I will not be sure which.

Cross-examined. Q. Harding told you to tell Barry that Bayliff would only give 27s. for it? A. Yes; I never knew Barry before, and he did not know me—when Harding told me to state this about 27s., to tell it to his pal, I did not think it a suspicious transaction.

COURT. Q. You do not mean to say that you did not consider this a very suspicious thing? A. No; I never knew such a thing done before.

MR. MAC ENTEER . Q. Did you take 10s. back from Harding? A. No; he did not give me 10s. back—I swear that—I was not at all under any apprehension at the time I saw them—I have never been afraid that I should be put on my trial as a receiver, if Bayliff had not been put there—I thought this case strong enough without my brothers, but I was asked by Mr. M'Intosh whether there was anybody present when the basket was left—I said, "Yes, my sister-in-law was there"—I did not mention my two brothers to Mr. M'Intosh—it was the suggestion of no one—my motive in bringing them was to prove that the things were brought to my house—they were witnesses to the transaction.

MR. LILLET. Q. Was one of your brothers at the police court? A. Yes, and the inspector inquired whether he knew anything about the matter—my brothers were subpoenaed by the police—I do not know where Bayliff lived; it was in Hoxton, at no great distance from his work shop—a minute or a minute and a half's walk—they are both on the other side of the Britannia.

COURT. Q. You went home after your master told you, and saw the basket? A. Yes—I saw my master again, about 20 minutes past 1 o'clock, outside my gate; he was walking—he walked up to my gate—he had the cart at that time at the bottom—he gave me the 10s., either as I was going with the parcel, or when it was in the cart—Harding came to my door about five minutes after Bayliff had left, about half past 1 o'clock, and I gave him the message to meet Bayliff at the Gloucester Arms—he walked on, and I put on my hat, and went out, and found Harding and Barry standing there—my sister-in-law was at home—when I went away in the cart it was about 20 minutes past 2 o'clock—I went to the workshop, and stayed till half past 3 o'clock; I then walked with Bailiff—I am sure of that—after delivering the message to Barry, I went back to my house, and after that my master took me away in the cart.

Barry. Q. Did you pay me 3l. 5s.? A. No, I treated you to lemonade and to brandy and water.

MR. MACENTEER. Q. You deny the 3l. 5s., and admit the brandy and water? A. Yes.

COURT. Q. Who was there? A. Barry and Mr. Bayliff—in our business it is usual for the journeyman to treat the master—I borrowed a shilling of my master, and paid him again—it is not unusual for us to have brandy and water and lemonade together—this was my treat—I have not given any money whatever, except what I have stated—I did not know from Mr. Bayliff what he was to give these men—I did not ask him what he was to pay for the brocade.

JURY. Q. Who paid the residue of the money, the 17s.? A. I do not know, except that in the afternoon I saw Harding get some money from Bayliff, but I do not know what—that was not in the Gloucester Arms, but in the street—I cannot tell whether it was silver or gold—I am satisfied it wig money by the chink of it.

MR. LILLET. Q. Is it not a common thing in the trade for masters and men to drink together? A. I have done it on several other occasions with other masters—my master has treated me, and I have returned the complement.

MR. MACENTEER. Q. When you were told to go and get your dinner, was that at your regular dinner hour? A. Yes—I do not always go at that time—my own boy would have gone, and brought it to me at the shop if I had sent him.

GEOBOE SMITH (policeman, M 165). I took Bayliff into custody on Thursday evening, 4th Sept, about 8 o'clock—I told him he was charged with buying a lot of brocade from the last robbery of Mr. Thorpe—he said that he knew nothing at all about it—I told him to come with me to the station, and somebody would confront him there—I told him he was charged with receiving it—he denied knowing anything about it.

COURT to ELIZABETH ROBINS. Q. Did you point out the bundle to any one? A. Yes; to William Robins when he came—I know James Robins—I did not see the cart drive up to the house, but my husband said it came—I saw a person that I thought might be Mr. Bayliff in the cart—I did not hear the cart drive up to the door afterwards—if a cart drew up I should hear it, and I did not—I do not know whether James Robins went away with his master—he took the bundle and came back—I do not know that I should have known if he had gone away with his master in the cart afterwards—there is a little garden in front of the house—the cart could not come close to the house—when I saw it it was at the end of the walk—it never came up to the gate of the house—I was in my own room—I was not near the window at the time—I had but lately been confined.

COURT to JAMES ROBINS. Q. Did you give any money at all to Harding or to Barry near a public house? A. No; neither outside the Gloucester Anns, nor at the other house, not one farthing—the 10s. was given at another place—about half past 1 o'clock I gave the 10s., and it was half past 3 o'clock when we were outside the public house—when Bayliff came I was coming out with the parcel, when he walked down to my place at 20 minutes past 1 o'clock—that was before the cart came to fetch me—at the very time the cart came to fetch the property, he gave me the 10s.—I did not afterwards give any other money to Harding, not one farthing.

COURT to AUSTIN BARRY. Q. Did you say that you went outside a house,

and saw Robins give something to Harding? A. Yes; at the public house near the toll gate.

JAMES ROBINS re-examined. No, I did not—it was in Gloucester-place that Bayliff gave money to Harding—I can swear that Barry was not within 150 yards of the place—I gave the 10s. to Barry—there was other money paid by Bayliff to Harding in New Gloucester-street—I was there with Harding and Bayliff—I did not give any money to Harding in the public house or near it—I will swear I did not.

COURT to AUSTIN BARRY. Q. Do you still mean to swear that he did? A. Yes; I saw money in his hand, which he paid to Harding.

JURY. Q. Did you not say that you were outside the house? A. Yet I was outside, but the door was partly open, and I saw Robins give some money to Harding.

COURT. Q. Did you call on Mr. Bayliff at his shop? A. I called at the shop, and asked for the basket—Mr. Kendrick was there—I saw Mr. Bayliff in the inner shop—Mr. Kendrick said I should not be seen near the place—I went down one night to Robins's to ask him about it—he said that he took it up to the factory, and I called for it.

(Bayliff received a good character.)

BAYLIFF— GUILTY . Aged 22.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury— Confined Twelve Months.

15th September 1856
Reference Numbert18560915-928
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown; Guilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment

Related Material

928. JOHN HARDING was again indicted, with RICHARD MUL LENS and JAMES DACEY , for breaking and entering the dwelling home of Charles Thorpe, and stealing therein 80lbs. weight of brocade, value 23l. his goods: Harding and Mullens having been before convicted: to which



Four Years Penal Servitude


Confined Twelve Months


View as XML